The Sun.
London, England, 1817-07-10 00:00:00

FINANCE.

Mr. TIERNEI* rose to open the debate on the
Resolutions he had submitted to the House some
'short time ago ; but, in the first place, he Wished
to withdraw the fist Resolution, because lie found
it was not correct. The House would recollect
that he had observed, that he could not pledge
himself to their accuracy when he presented them,
because some of the papers were not sufficieotly
clear and explicit to enable him to make arty very
confident deductions_ upon them. 1-lii mistake
had arisen from the circumstance of four Mil-
lions of the Unfunded Debt of Ireland having
been paid off, which was unknown to hint when
he framed his Resolutions. The Unfunded
Debt would now stand at 66 millions for the year,
according tohis view of the subject, instead of
70,267,1921. as before stated. In the nest place,
the total amount of the Supply for the year was
64,336,0001. and the Ways and Means amounted
to 64,141,0001. leaving a deficiency of 195,0001.
in the Ways and Means of this year. It appear-
ed that the sum of 582,0001. had been paid off on
the balance of last year, but it did not appear front
whence that sum was derived, but he supposed
it was front the Ways and Means of the present
year. The increase of the Unfunded Debt for
the present year, making the allowance for the
mistake into which he had been led, would be
16,378,0001. The manner in which these 'va-
rious payments were made might be well ander-
stood in thellouse, but he wished a clear view ofthe
finences to be given, so that they might be under-
stood out of doors. The papers ought to have
been-laid before the House at an earlier period,
so that a full opportunity might have been afforded
for the .111,2cosion of them. Towards the twenty-
two millions required for the current expences of
the year; not more than 5,100;0001. would be
raised-2,523,0001. of this could nat occur again,
as it wag. made up of arrears of Property Tax,
part being; taken into the Consolidated' Fund,
and part into the Ways and Means of the year.
In the next place, assuming the income and expen-
diture for the year to be the same In riiv year.ending
sth Jan. 118, as the last, the deficiency on the COn-
solidated Fund will be 3,521,0001. But the Commit-
tee said, that the revenues of the years 1813 and
1817 should be put totrether, to form an estimate of
the probable income of 1818. lie, however, could
not see the fairness of this, nor the probability of
improvement. He thought that too much delay
had taken place in the arrangement of the Fi-
nances., and the final settling of them cool() only
be deferred at the expence of much mischief
They were told, that the accounts could not be
made up to the sth of April till sonic time after
that period had expired, and that was all excuse
for procrastination, but in the Report the words,
sth of April, would be looked for in vain. How-
ever, the whole surplus of the sth of April ell:at-
ter had been taken into the WilV3 and Means of
the year, which he considered a very nufeir mole
of proceeding ; but then it would be. said the
charges on that quarter had first been paid off; it
might. be so, but it was well ktiowo there were
two good and two bad qoartees'in the year. The
April quarter was a good one, and the July year-
ter was the reverse, so many payments falling due
in it. The deficiency in the quarter ending sth
July was, 3,372,000 ; deducting the surplus of
the preceding, but leaving out this corisidrration,
the defalcation would amount to 725,000 he be-
lieved. At all events the falling oft was great,.and
the prospect was not more flattering with regard
to the receipts of the two remaining; quarters, so
that the revenue would not, he was sure, pay the
interest of the debt. The distress of the country,
which was so intimately connected with tls
finances, was said to be temporal y ; why, it, had
been temporary any time these two years. He
was glad to see the Eon. Member (Mr. Grant)

C.. 111:! 101—Naril great taienlq am: raleel...,T4r.
;ilowl..dge th;s stibiect„ and tOO% 1-raie
ifliself in ha, i,,g been the reetri of iosllreitig hi/3
'0 tee ep the q'XitiOn ; he hoped this
from year 10 yegi, itt Order that the coin,-
might know the real state of the rivance,..
Ile approved of the , issue of- lii }z
to meet a forto..r islue instead of fu ultra;.: them.,
hilt the system of Exeliv(itter Bill was a little mYs..
tet ions. lie should like to know the :ii»OIS:If
Exchequer Bills purehrsedbl! Governmenei and
ban tor some time endeavourCd to get this infor-
mation, but w.•• out success. The /ilia,. tie ha.ll
been told, Was for Government to determine
none of these Bills should be tregoiirted wi,horg
a premium, which was managed bet,Neen Goverri-
mew and the Bruk, by which the hatter olteo
a great gainer. 11,,w was it, it night he asktd, it s
these,MUS and the Stocks alio were so high ‘‘.he !A
the revenue was on the decline. The stagnti".ol,i
of trade was the cause, which left large sums of
money to be vested in the funds, which, in better
.times, might be employed in trade. This was the
way in which the Bankers employed the large
sums which were formerly engaged in the busi-
nesS of discounts. They also used their rusiont-
ers' money in the purchase of Exchequer Bills.,
and every Banker thus became, in the lan;,,,nage of
the City, a bull, anxious for the rise of the
Stocks. He thought these speculations exceed.:
ingly mischievous : suppose Ilade should speedily
revive, these Bankers must sell out at once, the
Stocks would fall, and ruin in some cases w.ouiti
doubtless follow. He had yet to learn %%lin
was meant by there being plenty of money, as was
said to be the case at one time; and then again,
in a few months, without any assignable cause, a
great scarcity prevailed. The Regent's Canal
was in want of 200,00 W. and the Commissioners
came like paupers to ask for part of the loan,
which had lately been determined upon for dis-
tressed parishes. lie should have thought that a
public work with such securities would not .haste
been at a loss to obtain money, if it w.as so ,ex-
ceedingly plentiful, without flying to a temporary
expedient resorted to on account of the great
public distress. The Commissioners of kl'oods :41.4
Forests, as they knew by the Bilis which hadjtmt
passed, wanted 300,0001. but would anyone believes
that they would get it without going to the Stocks?
He had intended to say a few ‘vords with rrspect
to the Sinking Ftrid, which seemed to be vieWel
of late in a very different character to what for=
merly belonged to it, but he had already trespass-A
too I!:ing on the time of the House. in the pre-
sent state of the world, they could not calculate
upon mote than five or sig years of peace ; how.
then were they to meet a war exIsendiritre, if live
income now in time of peace wtis, ktsuflicieot for
the demands of the State ? lie bad thrown out
these general hints very crudely, and without much
order, but he hoped lie had made himst wafer_
stood by the House. He concluded hymoving,that
the first Resolution be withdrawn.

Mr. C. GRANT. Ingail by n'iserviog, that the
subject of the Right lion. Gentleman's Resolutiogn
might be-divided into two parts the first of whiet
related tothe amount of the Unfunded Debt andvq-e
Increase in the present year, and the other to :lie
income and vxpenditure of the 'rear. The vier*.
which he had taken of the Finances was villa-,
pally Confined to the amount of the tinfunde4l
which the Right Hon. Gentleman stated at fiti
lions,while lre,(Air.G.) set it d0.n.11 at 6,1,684,.VP21..
He also shnuld sinew to the House', that there
was a diminution on the Attu of I,2oo„tittO.
while the I:tight Hon. Gentleman stated an in—
crease of 1,800,0001. which, perhaps, he twile
out by assuming that there would be-a deficiency
in the Ways and Means, but that could scarcely
be, as they were nearly all realised. The out—
standing debt of last year had been increased by
subsequent votes, so that in fact the accoilw: ;4'
unfunded debt should stand for Jan. 5, 16,16, art
52,116,0001. The lion. Gentleman (Ali... Grant)
went into a variety of minute siatkenent s and cal—
culations, to thz-.7 tte maximum of tke
tin-
fowled debt, on the sth of January next, weuld
be 64 millions, from which he inferred a reduction
of the debt in the current Near of 1,270,0001. As
he should take the liberty of moving the previous
question on the resolutions of the Right lion_
Gentleman opposite (Mr.Tievney), he was bonuti
to explain, that whatever merit belonged to Lim
own propositions consisted in their being the
propositions of fact and calculation those of the
Right Elon. Gentleman were in a great measure
propositions of conjecture and: arourentative in—
ference, and this wiis the grounA oijection
to them, because they proceeded cast. loader
premises, and led to erroneous conclusions,. Zie
regretted that the indisposition of the night Hvo.,
Gentleman hail prevented him from rmottiplyiurz,-,
these resolutions, so as to bring the whole ques—
tion of pa financial circumstances before tbe
a "
tine k.. 11, ps
litoisintin),:ttilien
bsoi
en)
in
ob
servations in so low
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUe.I4, said,
it
teas not necessary
for him to mapitulate the al—
guments of his lion. Friend (Niti. Gr'"ut)'
eslae—
cially as the Right [lon. Gentleth. (1114)""*.
seemed to admit the force of them to some "I'"L