The Sun.
London, England, 1821-06-27 00:00:00

Lord A. HA MwroN contended, that the plan adopted by
Mr. Owen included the most Strict observance of religion, and
there were many Members of that House, who, if -present,
could testify the fact. He was anxious to- support the motion
for inquiry, without at 411 pledging himself to the details of the
plan.
Mr. MAXWELL, in reply,-observed, thatit was not his in-
tention to divide the House upon the question.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that if the HenourAtije Member
'had pressed the question to a division, he would ha* toted for
the Inquiry. He wished to correct a mistake into 'which soi
Honograbie Gentlemen had fallen.with respect to Mr. Owens.
Plan. Ile did not know what Mr. Owen's religious opinions
were, but he could assure the House, that if any fault was to be
found with the sysystempursued at Lanark,- it was on the score
of too much religion. He (Mr. Brougham) was aware that
there could not be too great an observance of sound religious
principles; but there were persons who presumed to complain
that there v'as too much of the vehemence of religion practised
at Mr. Owen's Establishment. He feltit necessary to say this
much, as a feeling had crept into the public mind, in conse-
quence of. some ill-advised opinions broached in London by
Mr. Owen, that the Establishment was not conducted on reli-
gious principles. So far from this being the case, he was con-
vinced, from what he had heard, that the system of education
was highly religious.
The question was then put, and negatived Without a division.
THE SLAVE TRADE.
Mr. WiLnEavoacE, in rising to bring forward
his motion on the subject of the Papers laid be-
fore the House concerning the Abolition of the.
Slave Trade, observed, that the situation in which
he now stood was very different from that in
which he was placed when he addressed the
House upon this subject on a former occasion.
A considerable period had elapsed before the
different interests of this country -could be
brought to favour the Abolition of the Slave
Trade. :ThaOteat object wasat length accom-
plished, and the whole voice of Great Britain was
unanimously raised against it. Shortly after that
determination came the Bill of his Hon. and
Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham,) which, by en-
acting a severe punishment of all those found en-
gaged in this detestable trade, put the sincerity
of the country beyond all doubt. It was pro-
posed, that the measures adopted by this country
for the Abolition of the .Slave Trade, during the
war, were to be followed up, on the arrival of
peace, by the endeavours of our Government to
prevail upon foreign Powers to carry into effect
the principles which we .had adopted. During
the war we were the only carriers in Europe.
The vessels of the other European nations
navigated the ocean solely upon our permission.
After the abolition of that detestable trade which
had fasted for more than two centuries, we found
that the African was not that degraded being
which he was supposed to. be ; we found that he
Was a. being possessing the same reasoning powers
with ourselves; a being who, when his liberty
and property were secured, was anxious to at-
tach himself to habits of industry, and to form
himself into a useful member of a peaceful commu-
nity. Such was the state of the case when that
struggle, in which the whole of the European
Powers were engaged, terminated in a peace.—
On the ratification of that peace the Noble Mar-
quess opposite had used his utmost endeavours to
induce the other great Powers to co-operate with
us in the abolition of the Slave Trade. It was
gratifying to find that the great Powers in ques-
tion had all expressed the same sentiments of dis-
approbation of this detestable traffic, had also all
expressed a wish that this scourge of the human
race should be terminated. Spain and Portugal
had hesitated most, but they at length joined in
the same. feeling, and the utmost which they
pleaded for was,, that a certain period should be
allowed to the persons then engaged in the traffic.
This country had, with a liberality highly to its
honour, granted to Spain and Portugal a consi-
derable sum as.o,remuneration for the losses sus-
tained by those countries from the prosecution of
our plan of abolishing the Slave Trade. It was
natural that we should now inquire into the re-
sult of the Treaties into which we had entered
with those countries. And here he felt it neces-
sary to mention what bad been done by the No-
ble Marquess (Londonderry), to whose labours
and persevering ability the country was so much
indebted on this occasion. The Noble Marquess
had in all his negotiations supported this cause
with the greatest zeal and earnestness.—(Hear,
hear !)—Notwithstanding-,all the steps which had
been taken, however, he was sorry to say that
the Slave Trade was still carried on to an im-
mense extent, and in many instances with a
degree of barbarity sufficient to exhaust human
suffering on the one hand, and human cruelty on
the other—(hear, hear !) ;—and more than suffi-
cient to justify.all that had been said of it on for-
mer occasions. The Hon. Member, after allud-
ing to the conduct of the Government of the Ne-
therlands on this question, expressed a hope' that
that country, with which our, interests were
in a great measure bound up, would be induced
to join us in our endeavours to protect so large a
portion of our fellow-creatures. He trusted that
Spain also would be induced to join us in this
great work. He was the more inclined to enter-
tain this hope from a knowledge that there existed
in that country a number of great and high-mind-
ed individuals who would be inclined to co-ope-
rate with us the moment that they felt the effects
of living under a free Constitution., From Por-
tugal also, he wished to entertain the same hope ;
but he was unfortunately forbidden to indulge
that hope, by the conduct of Portugal heretofore,
that conduct having evinced the most decided, dis-
position to pursue the. traffic in Slaves merely for
the acqUisition of gain. Whether.the new Institu-
tions in that country would produce any change in
the ,character of its Government, or in its com-
mercial system, upon this subject particularly, he
could - not pretend to say ; but it would be
strange indeed, if a country professing to. sanc-
tion the principles of freedom and justice, should
tolerate the Slave 'Trade—especially after Go-
.vernments upon the principle of arbitrary mo-
narchy had decidedly declared against it. His
wish was, that the several Powers who had de-.
nounced this odious traffic, should appoint Asses-
sors to superintend and ensure the execution of
their views, and Portugal should be peculiarly
called upon to attend to this arrangement.---
(Hear!)-1 t was gratifying to learn that America,
which: had,derived great benefit from this traffic,
had acted very differently from Portugal.—
(Hear, hear!)—As the Americans arose from the
same source as ourselves, this indication of their
character was a just cause of pride to 'Englishmen.
—(Hear, hear, hear!)—But it was extraordinary
that a nation so high spirited and. chivalrous as
France, had manifested quite a different feeling.

it was impossible, indeed, for any man Acquaint.
ed with the character of the French, not to feel
extremely disappointed at the disposition of that
people to persevere in this odious traffic, after it
was dbandoned by Englandf and its nefarious
practices were universally proclaimed ; for these
lxritctices were such as•to throw into the shade the
Attmos4 cruelties while") sullied the French*-.
volution ; for while thellatt`hr ini/lit naturally be
supposed to proceed from passions strongly
excited, the former could have no other
impulse than a cold deliberate desire for
gain.—(llear, hear !)-1-lere the Hon. Mem-
ber took a review of the case of the French ships
engaged in the Slave Trade, which were men-
tioned last night in the House of Lords, by Lord
Lansdown, and in which slaves were found
stowed in casks, while others were thrown over-
board in casks, to avoid a search ; remarking, in
the most pathetic strain, upon the slaves, and
the crew afflicted with ophthahnia. It was pe-
culiarly revolting, he observed, that when this
ophthalmic affliction was made known to the
French Government, the disease itself became
the subject of mere medical analysis, instead of
provoking any inquiry as to the horrid cause of
its existence.—(llear, hear !)--The most effec-
tual guard against the continuance of the Slave
Trade would, he thought, be, to allow the mu-
tual right of search by officers of each nation ;
and to such an arrangement the French Govern-
ment would, he hoped, be easily reconciled, for
the establishment of such a right could in no
degree 'compromise its pride or consequence,
especially where an officer on the part of each
nation should be appointed to direct that
search. The American Legislature had, much
to its honour, pronounced any ship of that nation
engaged in the Slave Trade guilty of piracy.—
It were to be wished that all Governments
should issue a similar Decree, for the most vi-
gorobs measures were necessary to counteract
the Wide-spread evil of this traffic. There were,
no doubt, some Papers on the table which al-
leged the diminution of this trade, but those
Papers were contradictory in themselves, and
therefore by no means to be regarded as autho-
rity. This was the more evident upon looking
to the representation of Sir G. Collyer, who
stated, that he saw 40 sail at the Havannah des-
tined for the Coast of Africa, at the very time
to which some of those Papers referred, and that,
at the same period, there were 28 sail in a cer-
tain river in Africa (the name of which we could
not collect) waiting to take in cargoes of slaves.
The facility of obtaining such 'cargoes, it was la-
mentable to say, was considerably increased by
the measures of this country for the Abolition of
the Slave Trade ; for through those measures the
unfortunate natives of Africa were encouraged to
collect in villages upon the banks of rivers and
on the coast, from which they shrunk, while the
ravages of the Stave Trade were notoriously un-
interrupted and openly pursued by British ship-
ping.—(llear!)--He could not help congratulating
himself on the part -which he had taken in rescu

ins, this country from that abominable traffic. But
although England, which had formerly prosecuted
this trade with the greatest vigour, and which
had derived from it the greatest profit, had res-
cued itself from the disgrac.eful pursuit, the work
of humanity and justice must still be incomplete
while other nations were engaged in it. To in-
duce those nations, then, to abandon that traffic,
was a most desirable object. He imputed no
lukewarmness or want of ability to his Noble
Friend opposite. He was fully aware that his
Noble Friend had great difficulties to encounter
i❑ the prejudices of Foreign Powers. The po-
licy pursued by those Powers was founded upon
a mistaken sense of gain; mistaken he called it,
for the Great Disposer of Events had "ordained
that national gain could never be promoted by a
violation of justice, and that the course prescribed
by the principles of justice and humanity was
also the course which was most consistent with
commercial -prosperity. The Hon. Member con-
cluded amidst much cheering, by moving an Ad-
dress to his Majesty, recapitulating the principal
topics in his speech.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that in
common with the whole House, he had listened
with the greatest attention to the admirable
.speech of his Hon. Friend. He had heard him
with particular satisfaction that night, because
while he attempted to rouse the feelings of Fo-
reign Powers, he at the same time reminded the
House that this country for a long time indulged
in the exercise of those crimes long before our
own moral feelings were roused upon the subject.
With respect, to the Address, it certainly con-
tained some hasty reflections upon foreign Go-
vernments, to which he should not agree, if that
Address were written as a political paper, rather
than an expression of the moral feelings of
au individual. lie certainly hoped that it would
not be misinterpreted abroad, and other Go-

vernrnents ought to feel it as a proof of how
this country felt, and not as a reproach upon
themselves, but as a stimulus to the moral feelings
of their people. He was ready to go along with
his Hon. Friend in much that had fallen frorn
him, but at the same time they ought not to kieep
out of sight the difficulties which obstructed the

full attainment of the abolition. lie hoped that
by every exertion they should be able to remove
the traffic in slaves in a still greater degree, yet
he could not look to the final accomplishment of
their object until it was held by all countries that
slave dealing was a crime. If it was held to be
a crime against all Governments, that was the
position which would call into action the physical
as well as moral energies of the whole world. A 11

countries must be common cruizers against one
common enemy. And many countries, as far as
•he was acquainted by their Governments, want-
ed rather the means' than the will to carry this
into effect. They had not a sufficient naval
power to spread over the various stations, and
wherever one flag was absent, the slave dealer
would take' shelter under it. He did not find
the free Governments the most practicable to
deal with upon this subject. He fully agreed
in the sincerity with which his Honourable Friend
seemed to
.think that America acted in endea-

vouring to secure the abolition.

But he

thought the question with regard to America
hardly .stood upon - fair --ground. She had,

it is trite, given the name of piracy to any
act of slave dealing : hut then it was a sort
of Irish piracy, because no other flag could deal
with them as pirates except her awn. With
respect to the mutual search, there yas no
Government so hostile to that arrangeux: as
,tie American. With re&ar to Stain, tl eat
difkculty be arways bad` that of.. 14iati12,,-
P
.
into the minds of that Government that we were
not acting upon some commercial principles in
effecting the abolition of the Slave Trade. They
thought that his Hon. Friend who took so distill- ,
guished . a part in that great work, was a very
good Englishman, who always had his eyes upon -
the West Indies.—(Hear ! and a laugh.)—lle
mentioned this, to slew his lion. Friend that it
was not a necessary consequence for a represent-
ative government to be an enlightened one. In
all the representative governments of Spain,Franee,
and America, the principle of the abolition was
recognised, hat they all objected to the search •
upon the ground of national jealousy. The
Noble Marquis then complained of the conduct
of Portugal, and said, that the convulsions which
had taken place in that country, as well as in
Spain, might be instrumental in preventing
the proper attention to those- national affairs
which must so greatly suffer by neglect. As the
Cortes would now be established in Lisbon, as
well as in Rio Janiero, negociations with those
Governments might hereafter go on with better
success. •He repeated, that looking at the Ad-.
dress of his 'lon. Friend as a political document,
he should certainly have required modificationsi
of some paragraphs. But as a moral appeal to the.
people of other countries, he should not object to
let it pass as it was proposed.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH rose chiefly because a mo-
tion like- the present afforded an opportunity for
the manifestation of opinions which it was desir-
able should go forth to the world. It was only
by reiterated appeals to the feelings of nations
that opinion could have its due weight upon so-,
ciety. The Hon. and Learned Member then
went into a history of the conduct of Portugal,
with regard to the abolition of the Slave Trade,,
and contended that it was shameless and atro-
cious in the extreme. The .Hon. and Learned
Gentleman did not consider the Slave Trade-
productive of any distress under which the coun-
try might suffer ; but they had a right to call ors
France to abolish a traffic which had appeared
to that nation in the most odious point of
view. After France had entered into a treaty
to abolish it, was it not most extraordinary;
that no penal law was passed to punish what
he considered the greatest of crimes ? At the
same time he did not exclusively attach reproach
to the French Legislative Assembly. The sup-
port of the Slave Trade was to be attributed to
some of the supporters of the Government ; that
was the real state of the case, and all who read _
the speeches of his venerable and valuable friend,
M. de la Fayette, ' would find that the warmest
partizans of the Government of France were the
greatest friends and supporters of the Slave
Trade. It was not the feeling of the French
people which upheld the Slave Trade, but the
unwillingness of the Government of France to
stop it. Why did not the Government inquire in- lf
to the case of Le Radeur ? There was anotheract ---
of atrocity which had been traced to the French

flag, and which would furnish a subject fit for the
muse of Dante. A living poet could not do
justice to the horrific subject. He alluded to the
monstrous barbarity of putting the blind in casks
and throwing them overboard. The admirable
dispatches of Sir G. Collyer pointed out the
glaring fact of 600 blacks having been carried
off annually in French ships. When he looked

at all the charges, he wished the French Go-
vernment would exculpate themselves. Unfortn

nately, he found same disposed to favour the abo
minable traffic upon the most hypocritical and
worst of excuses, attention to interest, and French
commerce. He was convinced the French people,
brave and enlightened as they are, would consent
to abolish the trade, upon a just representation
of the base and hypocritical policy upon which it
is founded. The American Government, faithful
to their ancient character, their blood, and
berty, had for ever denied the right to carry 0"
that nefarious trade. It was worthy of rene
that two nations having the same origin, had jo

he same year abolished that crime, which •other
3owers of Europe had continued with so much in''

moral indifference. The Tunisians and Algerines
were accused of piracy for stealing men frow,,
Italy. Were not the Portuguese equally Pi-
rates for stealing men from Congo ? In his sittla
tion as a Judge in India, he formerly had-occa-
sion to consider the case of two .Portugues°

vessels being found with slaves on board, between
the Mozembique and Goa ; and of all the
dreadful misery, cruelty, and.wretchedness he
had ever known, those cases presented the worst'
it was really astonishing that the Arab POwers,,,
should have abolished this crime, and France onn:
to do it after a treaty, in which they pledged
themselves to procure the abolition.. Consider:
ing that all Europe had consented to
.abolis''s
the trade, and considering the wretched erti
'which nations. had resorted to for the purposed
supporting these frauds, he did not despair
the result of the efforts made by this coot‘tro,
and the United States in the cause of reas()),'
justice, and liberty. He believed this cou"tri,
would diffuse knowledge throughout the w°l.,u
ta
which would bury this crime in oblivioul

leave no trace behind.
jg on
Lord MILTON was desirous of saying only a few lot,iiich
this subject so ably introduced. There was one point ',irde-
had not been noticed, even by his Learned Friend. The :oitfic
ricans had done honour to themselves by Making this cles
piracy; but, with respect to France, he considered the
which interfered
,between that Government and the Slave 'coald
to arise solely from the effect of religion. Before iheYof the
expect from France any co,-operation in the abolition
Slave Trade, they must see Christianity restored. f America,
Dr. LUSHINOTON, adverting to the conduct °act. The
said that she had not done enough by passing °,llteit,,unless.a
making of slave-dealing piracy would not
prey oast of Africa,
sufficient number of cruisers were kept along
to enforce the penalty. This was not the case .
d t, Londonderry)
few, which were not sufficient. The Noble r
If°nat nothing but a
should press on the American Government, t
of her flag
mutual right of search could prevent the prostitution Gentleman
Learned
to this nefarious traffic. The' Hon. and
of slaves
confirmed the statements regarding the cruel treatment'oned several
on board the Portuguese slave ships, and
menti He likewise
the eshe had only a
cases.of which the evidence had come before him.

spoke in severe terms of the conduct of France.
Mr. BERNAL adverted to the sums which Portugal had re,
ceived from this country, for stivulatint; to abolish a traffic