The Sun.
London, England, 1828-06-21 00:00:00

ment for the reduction, which he considered, under
the circumstances, extremely moderate.

The Committee proceeded to a division, Ivheil
there appeared
For the Ainendnient. .....
Against it
Majority —4O
The House then resumed—the Report *as
brought up, and ordered to be taken into qtrthei•
consideration on Monday
NEW SOUTH WILES DILL.

26
.66

Mr. HUSKIS SON moved tiNtl4 9‘1.5e resOlve
itself into a Coiiiiiii!Ake Upon this
sir J. MACKINTOSH then rose, and after
alluding to the various changes that had taken place
In tine Colonial Office, said that the objects embraced
in the motion of which he had .given notice were
embodied in the , following renelutionr, t4Thieh
should noisy take the liberty to read, as the foundation
for those arguments with which he should afterwards
trouble the House. The first resolution which he
should propose was, " That it be an instruction to
the Committee to receive a clause for the immediate
establishment of trial by jury in New South Wales I,
and Van iieman's Land (excepting the penal set-
tlement for offenders there convicted), and for
directing the Governor and Council of each Colony
respectively, to frame regulations for that purpose,
respecting the number and qualifications of jurors
either in the whole Colony, or in any districts which
may seem to them to require modification." The
second resolution was to this effect—" That it be an
instruction to the Committee to receive a clause to
provide for the election of one-third of the legisla-.
tive councils of both the said Colonies (till assem-
blies shall be called by his Majesty), to be chosen
for five years, by all persons enjoying a clear yearly
income of 1001., who shall have been free inhabi-
tants for three years, and to direct. the Governor
and present Council to make such regulations as
they think fit, respecting the time, place, and other
circumstances of the election of such members."
It appeared by a late census, that in New
South Wales there were 25,000 free Englishmen,
all of whom would be eligible to act as jurors.
He saw no reason why those Colonies should
differ from other Colonies, and why the blessings
of the British Constitution should be withheld
from them, while other parts of his Majesty's
foreign possessions enjoyed those blessings.—
The only way to introduce a reformatory system, if
he might use the term, and to make those colonies
one grand penitentiary, would bete afford to the in-
habitants the means of relieving themselves from
the stigma which had been cast upon them. The
Hon.. and Learned Gentleman proceeded at some
length to point out the advantages which would
arise by the introduction into New South Wales of
the two measures to which he had referred, namely,
the right to elect Representatives and the trial by
Jury. The great body of the settlers were already
acquainted with the di, ies which, as jurors and elec-
tors, they would have to fulfil, and consequently the
present time was that which should be seized upon
to afford them those advantages which they were
entitled to receive. But if those measures were de-
layed to an indefinite hereafter, the present popula-
tion would grow less and less, and a new race
would spring up, who would neither understand nor
be capable of appreciating the blessings of the Bri-
tish freemen.—(Hear, hear.)—lf those institutions
were delayed, a blind civil war, or the total loss of
the colonies, must follow. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman then alluded to the feuds which existed
in New South Wales between the " emancipa-
tionists," as they called themselves, and the non•
emancipated. Now nothing, he conceived, could
have a greater tendency to soften down asperities,
and blend men together, than when they were in the
habit of acting together in different situations of
society. Excepting Mr. Bigg, there was no autho-
rity against the introduction of those institutions :
opposed to his evidence, there was the testimony of
Governor Hinton, and also that of the late Gover-
nor-General Macquarrie, who was justly called the
father of the colony, and who, in his report to
Loud Bathurst, in 1825, stated that there was a
sufficient body of freemen in those colonies
competent to perform the duties, not only of jurors,
but electors. It might be said that Sir Thomas Bris-
bane, because devoted to science and philosophy, was
not a competent witness upon such a question. It
was true that Queen Elizabeth said that " Mr.
Bacon," as she called him, was too much of a wit
to make a good lawyer; but, however true the ob-
servation might be generally speaking, it was about
as just in the instance of the great Bacon, as it would
be to say that Sir Thomas Brisbane was an incom-
petent witness upon a question like the present, be-
cause he brought home a larger share of knowledge
upon other subjects than fell to tlke lot of most men.
Chief Justice Wilde and Mr. Justice Ford had also
given it as their opinion, that the trial by jury would
work well in New South Wales, and they laughed
with scorn at the idea that this colony was not as
ripe as any other to partake of the benefits of a free
constitution. The partial introduction •of English
institutions into immediate practice was the only
pledge of a real intention on the part of the Govern-
ment to introduce them more completely in the end.
The Hon. Member for Hertfordshire said, in refer-
ence to his ( Sir J. Mackintosh's) moderate proposal,
" would you set a boy of 14 at perfect liberty, and
grant him all the freedom which you would give a
man ?" He certainly would not adopt that course,
but neither would he imprison his son, at the age of
14, in a monastery—allow him to remain there till
he had reached the height of his passions, and then
let him loose suddenly to be ruined by the violence.
of those passions. In an able anonymous essay upon
Milton, the supposition that a nation could not be
ripe for liberty was very ingeniously opposed. The
author said that it reminded him of the story of the
lamb which sagaciously resolved never to go into the
water until it had learned to swim. He, however,
, although struck with the whimsical ingenuity of the
L illustration, still maintained a different opinion.
On the first resolution being put,
Mr. HUSKISSON wished most sincerely to see

the population of New South Wales in the perfect
enjoyment of the advantages resulting from trial by
jury, and an elective assembly, on the same principle
as that which was so successful in its operation in
England. But the question was, whether they could
at present be so introduced under all the peculiar
circumstances now attendant on the state of society
in that colony ? He thought not. There was in
fact little difference between the proposition of the
Right lion. Gentleman and his own. The one
(Sir J. Mackintosh) wished for the immediate in-
troduction of trial by jury, giving the governor a
qualifying power of suspending it in any local dis-
trict according to his discretion. The other pro-
posed that it should be suspended for the present, but
gave a power to the governor gradually to extend the
system, according as circumstances might admit of
it, The Right Hon. Member had talked of the
manlier in which he would gradually accustom an
innocent boy of 14 years, brought up in a monastery,
to the business of life, and the usages of the world.
For his part, he could not perceive any similarity
whatever between such a boy and the population of
New South Wales, two-thirds of which had been
sent forth, not from a ►monastery, but from Newgatc,
condemned to 14 years' of punishment for their
aggressions against the civil and moral interests of
their fellow-subjects.—(Laughter.)—The average of
the inhabitants was one man to 20,000 acres; and
society, he need scarcely add, . was on a footing
quite different from the public of this country.
Would an Englishman, who went out to the country
possessed of wealth, character, and education, choose
to have his.life and liberty exposed to the decision
of a jury, nine or ten of which were convicted crimi-
nals.—(llear, hear.)--He was satisfied, from the
official inquiries which he had felt it duty to in-
stitute, that nothing would so mach tend t. deter
capital awl respectable members of society from
colony, as the establishment of trial by Jury in its
existing condition. The species of trial now in
operation there appeared to give the completest
satisfaction, whatever might be its effects.—
As the duration of the Bill was to be seven years,