The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-24 00:00:00

that the Admiralty did not approve of officers Interfering with
what they considered to be under their peculiar province
and superintendence.—(Hear, hear.) In his opinion, how-
(ever, the Admiralty ought to be obliged to officers
when they came forward and pointed cut what they thought to
constitute defects in the vessels to which they were destined,
and in which frequently their lives and honour were at stake.
He, for his own part, would be more ready to bestow praise
than blame on the Admiralty, and he was sure they would
give him the credit of having no evil design in thus finding
fault. The experimental squadron was about to sail, and the
Admiralty had given special orders as to the construction of
those vessels. He would request that strict inquiries should be
made as to the exact quantity of stores which those ships would
hold. He had been informed that vessels built by Sir Wm.
Symonds were capable of containing more stores than any other.
Each of these ships had been built on a different principle, and
he trusted that a correct account would be taken of the amount
in water and provisions that was stored in each. If that were
done, Sir W. Symonds would have an opportunity of contrast-
ing the comparative qualifications of each. A report should
then be drawn up, and transmitted to the Admiralty, and that
ship in which it appeared the greatest quantity of stores could
be stowed without deteriorating from its sailing powers was,
without doubt, the best ship, and would afford a correct model
for the construction of others. He would wish to impress this
view of the case on the consideration of the Admiralty.
The subject to which he would next refer was that of steamers,
a most important question. When the present Board came
into office in 1841, their attention was very early called to the
construction of steam-heats. He could not say that their
predecessors had shown much skill in the formation of steam
men of-war, but still he considered it was better attended to
by them than at present. The late Board contented them-
selves with building steam corvettes, with one gun ahead, one
astern, and two adeck. They attempted two frigates—the
Cyclops and the Dolphin. They had them formed with port-
holes, but when it was attempted to man them with long guns,
it was found that the port-holes were under water ; in fact,
the frigates were perfectly incapable of carrying such guns
at all. If they were not capable of being used as steam-
frigates, he asked the reason why they were built 300 or 400
tons larger, in order to carry the same weight of metal as
steam-vessels ? When the present Board of Admiralty came
into office, they got a large grant of money to build steam men-
of-war. The Firebrand was the first one laid down by them.
The Hon. Gentleman opposite, the Secretary, would recollect
his going to see the experimental squadron ; and he knew
what was the opinion of the Captain of the Firebrand on that
occasion. He (Sir Charles Napier) hoped that he would
frankly and honestly state what the opinion of Captain Corry
was, without any subterfuge or reservations.—(Laughter. )
He hoped that in giving it there would be no going
about the bush.—(Renewed laughter and cheers.) It was
right that they should know, and he (Sir Charles Napier)
wished himself particularly to know from the Hon. Gentle-
man if the boilers and paddles were not above the water, if it
were possible to man with great guns in heavy weather, and
whether the manning of the stern-ports did not block up the
cabin so as to render it unfit to live in from defective ventila-
tion—whether the captain was not obliged to go into another
place, or on to the deck for a mouthful of fresh air ? They
had therefore tried the Firebrand, and failed—
Mr. CORRY—The Firebrand was laid down by the late
Admiralty.
Sir CHARLES NAPIER—The more shame to them. He
now came to the Terrible. He had been aboard, and ex-
amined her, and though he had not seen her with her stores
and provisions aboard, yet he believed she was like all the
others, so constructed as, when fully equipped, to be com-
pletely immersed in water. She was larger than the frigates
were in the late war, yet so constructed as to render it impos-
sible for her to carry heavy guns on the main deck. The
steam-boilers were so exposed, that a shot fired into the ma-
chinery would immediately blow her up. The next he came
to was the Gladiator. He had also been aboard of her, and
she was exactly the same. Her engines and boilers were high
and exposed in the most dangerous manner. The Samson
appeared to him to be the only steamer constructed to be really
useful. Her boilers were lower than the others, her engines
better made, and generally she was better adapted for the pur-
poses of war. The Retribution was built in 1840, and would
the House believe that the builder, or whoever else had the
superintendence and getting up the plans, actually in her con-
struction forgot to give her any stern ports at all ; and the
guns had to be mounted on carriages in the clumsiest manner
—in a sort of up-and-go-kick style, in order to keep them to
overlook the bulwarks. The whole thing was perfectly ab-
surd, and! he called upon the Admiralty for a full explana-
tion. The three steamers, the Avenger, the Dragon, and the
Centaur now building, were not too far advanced to be changed,
if the builders, or whoever else had the super-
intendence of them, were instructed by the Govern-
ment to make the necessary alterations. Without this, if they
were called into action, they would be found totally inefficient.
The present Admiralty had allowed him to construct a steam-
boat upon what he conceived to be correct principles, and he
had applied himself to the subject for many months. He had
acqnired information from builders and engineers on the sub-
ject, and he had come to the conclusion that there was no hope
of an improvement so long as the Admiralty kept to themselves
the management of this department. The Queen's yacht was
a steam-vessel of which he had not spoken before.
When she was first completed, it was discovered she
could not steer at all. She was altered, and upon a second trial
she succeeded better, though she was far from being in an
efficient state. She was so badly constructed that they were
obliged to place 100 tons of ballast in her, in addition to the
weight of her machinery. She was a second time ordered for
doctoring, and instead of her being up at Woolwich for that
purpose she was sent round from that place to Portsmouth,
while her boilers, which had been taken oat there, were sent
round after her, at an expense of 600/. He had asked
for a return of the enormous expense incurred in
the construction of this ship, and though he had not
yet got it, he could prove what he stated to be
true. He had now explained at great length his views
on the construction of the ships of the navy, and he would
now ask of what use would such steam-vessels be in ease of
war ? He would ask the Admiralty, what would be the effect
if the Terrible, for instance, was put in an action? The first
shot through her, he would bet ten thousand guineas, would
go through the steam-engine, and render her entirely useless.
But were the boilers placed below the water, the machinery
would be perfectly secure. In the former case, he would not
go on board for any sum of money, as he would be certain to
come out absolutely boiled.--( Great laughter.) Supposing
that instead of a period of profound peace, as at ',resent, they
were at war, and that such steamers were ordered to attack a fort
or battery, what would be the result ? Why, he was sure the
engineers would not stay below after the first shot. And he
thought that they would be acting quite right, for he would
not himself go down under such circumstances, as he would
have no disposition to be boiled. Officers entered the service
to run the chance of being shot at by guns, or attacked by
swords and similar weapons; but not for the purpose of being
boiled.—( Loud laughter and cheers.) It was no part of the
contract of officers to be placed in the position of being blown
up upon the firing of the first shot. To place such steam-
boats before a battery would be perfectly useless. He would
ted Hon. Gentlemen opposite that his conduct in opening up
this question had done a great deal of good,
Sir G. COCKBURN—A great deal of harm.

Sir CHARLES NAPIER. said he did not think so. He
never saw or knew any good done without standing up in the
House and agitating the question, or by the press doing the
same. By agitation alone was these matters to be remedied.
This agitation had already done great good, and the effect
would be to have the ships in future better built and better
manned. But they must have a man who could give the whole
of his attention to the construction of vessels--a man to
whom the whole responsibility of the matter could be
intrusted ; allowing the Admiralty to act in the ca-
pacity of the old naval Board. Let them lo,k, at
France, with her enormous steam fleet, most, if not
all of them, 260 feet long, and capable of containing
2,000 troops or more ; and, in the midst of profound peace,
making arsenals at Cherbourg, constructing basins at St.
Mallow's, capable of holding 200 steam-boats, besides forming
similar works at Havre and Calais. He thought rewards
should be held out by the Admiralty for ingenuity and enter-
prise to discover some mode of preventing the possibility of
accidents to boilers and the more intricate machinery of steam-
boats. Such a course would lead to increased safety, and entail
commensurate advantages on the country. He thanked the
House for the attention with which they had heard him. He
had considered it his duty to bring the matter before their
notice, and he trusted its benefits would not be f and wanting.
Mr. SOMES regretted that the Gallant Member for Mary-
lebone should have deemed it consistent with his duty to dis-
parage the present Board of Admiralty and its attempts to
promote the interests of the service. He had been connected
with steam-ship building for several years, and was, there-
fore, enabled to speak with some confidence on the subject. In
the Terrible, of 1,800 tons, which he had had an opportunity
of inspecting that day, no difficulty was felt in having their
guns on the main deck, and in fact to all vessels constructed
on a similar plan, the same observation was applicable. Besides,
the Gallant Member should recollect that steam-ship building
was as yet but in its infancy. Would he, ten years ago, have
asked the Board of Admiralty to construct a fleet of fifty steam-
vessels? The most important improvements had been intro-
duced since that period, and the Archimedian screw, which,
doubtless, would supersede every other method of steam power,
had but within the last few months been satisfactorily completed.
With respect to the extent of the steam fleet of this empire, the
Hon. Member should recollect that it was not only the 104 al-
ready in the navy, but the 150 steam vessels in the merchant
service which could be made serviceable in case of emergency,
and taking into consideration that and other concurrent circum-
stances, he thought the kind of discussion so repeatedly intro-
duced by the Gallant Commodore calculated to injure rather
than promote the interests of the country.
Captain PECHELL said that he could not at all un-
derstand how any Member could designate such discus-
sions injurious: Such an argument was as new as the

position of the Hon. Member who had come so opportunely to
the support of the Admiralty. He agreed with that Gentleman
that the English navy was able to compete with any in the
world, but it was not only necessary that a ship should be able
to chase an enemy but also to escape; and with the overhang-

ing sterns, it was absolutely dangerous to use the guns unless
specially arranged for the purpose. He thought steam -vessels
should be sent out with the experimental squadron now fitting ;
their capabilities for towing heavy and dismantled vessels should be
tested, and every trial given for putting their qualifications, as
well as defects, beyond dispute. As to the line-of-battle ships
intended to go out during the present season, four had been
prepared at Plymouth, appearing in rotation at Portsmouth one
by one. There they had been taken into dock, and been cleaned
so as to reduce their draught to 22. feet. Why this had not
been done at Plymouth it was not for him to say. There was
amply sufficient water at that port. In fact, the San Josef had
been sent there solely on account of the depth of water
.she re-
quired, and the accommodation afforded almost exclusively in
that harbour. He recommended the adoption of a home for
the reception of seamen, so that ships might be readily manned
without the pernicious interference of the class of men termed
crimps. Such a course had been pursued by the Messrs.
Green for the manning of their ships, and having proved
eminently successful, was well worthy the consideration of the

Admiralty.
Mr. 1.. CORRY must repeat what he had before af-
firmed, that the practice of uniformly depreciating the naval
service of this country, and elevating others in comparison,
was fraught with the utmost mischief ; it must tend to dis-
courage the energy of the seamen, hitherto so celebrated fur
their courage and perseverance, and eventually entail harm
both on the service and the country.
Sir GEORGE COCKBURN was astonished that the
Hon. Member for Brighton should have cast an unfounded
insinuation on the Admiralty, and an unwarrantable attack
on his Friend the Member for Dartmouth. He, for one,
rather felt obliged to the latter gentleman for his kind tes-
timony to the efficiency of the navy, and he thought the
House would concur in his sense of obligation, especially
considering the experience and independence of the authority.
He had not been in a hurry to answer the Gallant
Commodore, because he had done so again and again before.
They had been making in the navy many experiments, and they
were going to try the rotatory engines, and he was in hopes
that shortly they would be enabled in all vessels to use the
screw. The only difficulty they had to contend with in the
screw was when a vessel had got a head wind to contend with.
The Hon. Gentleman then went on to argue that the Admi-
ralty were not deserving of Om aspersions that had been made
against them, that they had done all they could to place the
navy of England in a proper condition, and to redeem the neg-
lect of their predecessors in office. With respect to the steam_
es:ni;
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