The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-12 00:00:00

T. 111 E SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING, MARCH 12 1845.

visions of this clause, for he thought it might lead one main rail_
wry to shut up one or more of its branches; but he thought that a
clause might be framed which would effect the object of the
amendment.
Mr. W. E. GLADSTONE opposed the amendment, for ho thought
that it would greatly tend to produce the effect which had just been
state'. Though this might be obviated by Parliament watching
very closely all attempts to amalgamate railways, the instance of
the Leeds and Selby Railway was not a sufficient case to justify any
departure from the general law. 'That instance had not arisen out
of any defect of the general law.—( Hear, hear.) His
Hon. and Gallant Friend might depend upon it that, if this
attempt were persevered in, it would have the effect of rendering
the railways either very rich or very poor. Now he did not
think that it was wise to have poor railway companies, for if
that were to take place, the public would not realise the
same advantages which they now did. He (Mr. Gladstone)
conceived that it would be in the highest degree unjust to compel
a company to work a line after it had become unprofitable, and on

Dragoons, Foot Guards, Horse and Foot Artillery, Corps of
Eligineers and Sappers and Aliners, Infantry of the Line, and
Marines, with the average effective strength of each branch of
the service, for each year, from 1834 to 1843. Also, the ave-
rage age of the pensioners when received on the pension estab-
lishment; specifying the average ages of the pensioners from
each branch of the service. Also, the average service of the
pensioners at the time when received on the pension establish-
mer.t ; distinguishing the average period of service of the pen-
sioners from each branch of the service. Also, the number of
pensione
• rs who have died in each year, from the year 1834 to
the year 1843, both years inclusive, with the average ages of the
pensioners at the time of their decease. Also the total number
of pensioners of all branches of the army on the establishment,
in each year, from 1834 to 1843, both years inclusive
Agreed to.

occasion, raise the general question, but he had raised it, and
insinuated that the Colonial-office had been guilty of a gross
breach of faith. He went on to make charges against the Go-
verment respecting their honour and public conduct.
Mr. AGLIONBY said he had rot made these charges, he
had only stated that such allegations had been in circulation.
Mr. HOPE—No, the Hon. Member did not make a charge,
but he made insinuations, and expressed his belief in them.
That was precisely what he complained of. The motion for
papers was a mere pretence. All the papers the Government
was in possession of had been before the country for months.
The subject had been adverted to in every newspaper. In one
publication, a full statement regarding the affairs of New
Zealand had been made, under the authority of the Company.
The whole question he repeated had been before the public,
and before Parliament, again and again. Why, it had been
even stated that it was the intention of the Government to
Impeach the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies for his
conduct in these matters ; and it was even hinted that the
reason why the Noble Lord left the House was to escape from
these charges. But what he chiefly complained of was that
charges were made out of the House by Hon. Members which
they could not substantiate in the House. When an Hon.
Member insinuated that Members of the Government were
guilty of a breach of faith and want of honour, it was only right
that that Hon. Member should substantiate his charge or dis-
avow it. Nothing could:be more unfair than the Honourable
Member's course in making certain random charges against the
Government, and then moving for papers in order to extract
from them some foundation for those charges. From a coin-
cidence of untoward circumstances, they had not been able to
obtain any official information!from New Zealand. The issue of
the debentures had not been approved of by the Government,
and were withdrawn, at the instance of the Government. They
had not been done under the warrants of the Government,
nor sanctioned by it. Respecting the proposed tax, he had not '
received any information, and, with respect to the
recent outrages alluded to, the last advice he had went
no further than to say that troops had been sent for to
Sidney for the purpose of repressing those attacks.
With regard to the fifth head, all he had to say was, that all
the information the Government possessed had been laid before
the House already. The Hon Member for Cockermouth (Mr.
Aglionby) had taken a most extraordinary course, for he
seemed desirous of attacking all that had been done. He
seemed to imply that the Noble Lord had acted on an exparte
statement, and even seemed to think that he had acted on the
exparte statement of the very murderer himself. But, en the
contrary, a magistrate had gone out to inquire what the facts
were, and had personally investigated those facts in the Bay
of Islands. A difference had ensued between the natives and
the settlers. The former conceived that the latter had in-
fringed their rights, a conflict had ensued, and blood had, un-
happily, been shed. Every effort had been made to remedy
the evils which had ensued, and to do justice to the parties,
but some individuals seemed to think that some other inquiry
was requisite than that which had been appointed by the pro-
per judicial authorities. He (Mr. Hope) thought that he
need scarcely refer to the disasters produced by collision
under such circumstances as these—he need scarcely
refer to the little consideration, indeed to the
want of all law, which necessarily attended those
who left their native country to settle in remote portions of the
earth, and he could not admit that the feeling was universal
that such collisions were unusual. When such col-
lisions had taken plasm, it had often been absolutely
impossible to apply to this country for 'assistance or redress.
What was the case in this instance ? A number of British
colonists had settled among a people rude, savage, well-armed,
and above all, deeply sensible of their rights and determined to
uphold them. Was it to be expected that when in the pos-
session of their lands, and with such habits as they had of using
them, that they would willingly or easily resign power ? The
Hon. Member for Cockermouth (Mr. Aglionby) complained
that the white man was neglected while the black man was
protected. The Hon. Member had alluded to correspondence,
and had adduced letters which he supposed had been sent out
to the colony, as if there was some collusion in the case. He
(Mr. Hope) did not know whether the Hon. Member for
Cockermouth had any peculiar means of information, but
this he would beg to say, that if he (Mr. Aglionby) was
alluding to the letters of the Noble Lord at the head of the
Colonial Department, that there were none of any importance
in this transaction, the contents of which were not in-
cluded in the reports. The Honourable Member
alluded to Mr. Shortlands, and bad seemed to imply that
that Gentleman's conduct had been indefensible on this oc-
casion. He regretted that Mr. Shortlands had net been pro-
duced. Mr. Shortlands was acting-governor at that time, and
en his return had requested to be put on his defence. He had
also spoken of Mr. Bushy, and had wished for the information
which that gentleman waa able to give, but he (Mr. Hope)
did not think that Mr. Busby was able to supply any infor-
mation which was not already possessed by the Government
and the House. The Hon. Member had also wished for Mr.
Cotes' letter, and seemed to conceive that the letter which had
been transmitted to the colony, had been a mere transcript of
Mr. Cotes' letters. When the fact was that the instructions
had been sent out to New Zealand before Mr. Cotes' in-
formation had ever been heard of. Indeed, on a reference to
the documents he found that Mr. Cotes' letter bad been re-
ceived the day after the dispatch bad been sent off to New
Zealand. With respect to the observations of the Hon. Mem-
ber, upon the coincidence of the contents of that dispatch and
the letter of Mr. Cotes, he thought it not at all extraordinary,
for it was not at all surprising to him (Mr. Hope) that two
persons writing on the same subject, in possession of the same
information, and entertaining pretty nearly the same
views, should come to the same conclusion, and express
themselves in very similar terms. With respect
to the circumstance of sending for troops to Sidney to repress
the outrages, he must say that the Hon. Member had very
greatly confounded the facts, and he appeared at the same time
to be wholly in the dark respecting them. With respect again
to the right of pre-emption, the course taken was this. The
Government deemed it necessary to secure a revenue, and for
this purpose had secured to itself the right, in the first place,
of purchasing the waste lands, and then to sell them atan ad-
vance. These had been the instructions of the Marquis of
Normanby and not of the Government of which he (Mr.
Hope) was a Member. He was not now about to criticise
those instructions, but he merely referred to them in order to
show how the system had arisen. The natives having ascer-
tained that land had risen to 20s. and 30s. an acre, naturally
became discontented at the price they received, and they ac-
cordingly called upon the Government either to give them an
advanced price or leave them open to the offers of other per-
sons who would do so. But their doing so would have left
the colony without funds. The land was originally purchased
and then an advance of 20s. an acre was put upon it; 10s. were
applied to the expenses of the colony, and the other 10s. were
used in the transference of labour to the colonies. This plan
had been introduced by the predecessors of the
present Government, but it had entirely failed. Under
the circumstances of the case, Lord Stanley could not
eo otherwise than apply the land fund as he had done. He
(Mr. Hope) was ready to produce all the statutes on the
subject; and, with respect to the papers which the Hon. Mem-
ber desired to have, he might have had them a fortnight ago.
There was no information in the possession of Government
which the Hon. Member could not obtain from the papers
themselves ; and from the papers which had already been pro-
duced, the House was practically in possession of all that the
Hon. Member required—( Hear, hear)—and he thought that
the Hon. Member would have been better advised had he re-
frained from moving for a series of papers, not at once, but at
different times, and bringing on a series of discussions which
were as useless as they were unjust and unjustifiable to the
Noble Lord under whom he served. In the amendment which
he (Mr. Hope) intended to move to this motion, he should
certainly apply for the whole of the papers; and he thought
that the Hon. and Learned Member had better pursue that
course or else abandon his attempt.
Mr. A GLIONBY explained that he intended:no reflection on
Lieut. Shortlands; and he begged to be understood that in the i
motions which he intended to make for papers, t was not his
wish to bring on any discussion whatever. He wished to ob-
tain information exclusively with respect to the affairs of the
Company, and his object was not discussion, but the papers
necessary to come at the real state of those affairs.
Mr. CHARLES BULLEFt said that he could not but
reprobate any attempt to put down any. Member of that
House in the endeavour to obtain information respecting any
public circumstance. He thought it was perfectly, fair for any
Nlember of that House to make any statement in that House
a subject for discussion, and it did, indeed, surprise him that
any Member of any Government should presume to call in
question the right of any Member to express his opinion on
public affairs, or of any portion of those affairs, without doing
it amid all those taunts which had been thrown out against him.
Mention had been made of these matters so long ago as June
and July last, and yet it was unreasonable, even under these
circumstances, to ask for papers in the possession of the
Colonial-office. He did not mean to impute to the Hon.
Member the Under-Secretary for the Colonies any want of
care or consideration for the country, but, when these papers
were called for, it was, he must confess, to him perfectly ludi-
crous to turn round and say that all the information they pos-
sessed was before the House, or ready to be given, when, in
fact, the House was in possession of no information at all, or,
at least, of any information that was available for the purpose.
—( Hear, hear,) 'I he Hon. Gentleman said that these
papers were before the House, and yet he pro-
mised them. He must say that in this matter
the Honourable Gentleman seemed to be playing fast and
loose with the House. Why what was the fact then ? There
were no less than six subjects of complaint in the motion of
the Hon. and Learned Member for Cockermouth—debentures,
imposition of taxes, the commission of outrages, the disallow-
ance of land sales, and the proclamations of which so much
had been said. Now, on five out of these six subjects there
was absolutely no information before the House at all, and yet
it was the duty of Government to express displeasure at the
application for any other papers except such as were laid on the
table of the House. Was this, be would ask—was this a decent
answer from a great public department to a Member of that
House ? A statement was made that an accident had happened
to the correspondence. He did not know what that accident
was, but he presumed that it was not the accident of which the
Hon. Member far Finsbury (Mr. Duncombe) complained the
other night—( Laughter)—and if it were, he did not see how
the Government could be in possession of less information on
that account. IWas he to say that the papers were wrong ?
And if they were not, where was the information of which the
Howie was said to be possessed ?
Mr. HOPE intimated his dissent.
Mr. C. BULLER—Did the Honourable Gentleman mean
to contradict him ? He would repeat that there was
not a single itom of information on five out of those six sub-
jects in the papers before the House. He did not wish to
enter into any controversy with the Hon. Member the Under-
Secretary for the Colonies on that subject. The matter of
which he had to complain was one of greater importance—a
larger question. The matter of which he had to complain
was not the ill usage of New Zealand only, but of all the colo-
nies—of the utter ignorance—the gross, the utter ignorance
of every person connected with the colonies and of the colonies
themselves, from the Governor up to the very head of the
Colonial-office himself. Some two years ago he had drawn
the attention of the House to the state of the colonies, and
he had to express his thankfulness to the House for the atten-
tion with which they had favoured him on that occasion ; and
he had also to express his gratitude to the House and
the country for the weight with which public opinion and the
force with which public feeling had been brought to bear
upon this question, in consequence of that attention.—( Hear.)
Ile would again apply to that public feeling, he would again
evoke that public opinion, and he did hope that both would be
made available on the present occasion for the benefit of the
colonies and the country.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. C. Buller)
had always in former days understood that when an English-
man left the land of his birth he carried with him the birth-
right of an Englishman ; that he was entitled to the same privi-
leges as he was in his native land, and that he was nowhere
subject to be taxed without his consent. But now matters
were changed ; and if the colonies were thought of
at all, they were only thought of as the colonies of the
Crown. Did the Hon. Gentlemen of the Colonial-office know
what a Crown colony was ? When the colonists, in early days,
left this country to found those splendid empires in the west,
they felt that so long as an Englishman retained his connexion
with this country he felt that he was entitled to its privileges.
He felt that he was entitled to all the benefits of a representa-
tive Government ; and when the State of Pennsylvania and
Rhode Island, and other of the American States, were founded,
there was every care taken to secure a representative Govern-
ment for them. Indeed to such an extent did this go, that
Rhode Island had a domestic Legislature, though the number
of its inhabitants did not exceed five thousand. But now,
the system pursued towards the colonies was one of despotism,
a despotism which, but for the supervision of that House, would
be a perfect despotism, and this was the system they pursued
towards New Zealand—a system which prevented all liability
on the part of the Governor to have his conduct or his mea.

SUGAR DUTIES BILL.
Mr. LAIIOUCHERE said that he understood that the
Sugar Duties Bill had been brought in and read at twelve
o'clock this morning, no doubt through inadvertence. He did
not feel the smallest disposition to obstruct the Bill in its pre-
sent stage, but he thought it would be inconvenient to allow
any stage of a money Bill to pass without notice. He ob-
jected to it as a precedent, although, in this instance, he had
no doubt it had been done through inadvertence. He trusted
that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir Robert Peel) would
concur with him, and would not object to say that such should
not occur again.

this ground alone he should oppose the amendment.
Mr. F. MAULE said that, if the Noble Lord would give a
guarantee that he would provide some means for carryigg out the
provisions of the 106th clause, which provided fur the leasing of a
sailwav, without the looseness which now seemed to hang over it,

he would advise his Hon. Friend to withdraw his amendment.
Mr. DARBY said that he really would recommend the Hon.
Member to withdraw his amendment, for lie believed with hie

Hon. Friend for Newark (Mr. Gladstone), that if it were adopted

it would be impossible to carry it out, and that it would be such an
impediment to the working of railways as to become practically a
great injustice, indeed he would say an impossibility.
Mr. AGLIONBY said he had risen some time ago to make
a suggestion which he thought would obviate the diffi-
culty. He conceived that if a starding order were in-
stituted to compel a company before they came into
Parliament to provide for the maintenance. of its branches after
they should have got into working, the public would be se-
cured, and yet the railway company would not be injured.
The Hon. Member might then with safety withdraw his amend-
ment.

Sir ROBERT PEEL entirely concurred with the Right
Hon. Gentleman in the general principle which he had stated,
and he might depend upon it that in future no money Bill
would be taken at the morning sitting without notice.
Mr. HUME was understood to ask whether, at a future
stage of the Bill, there would be an opportunity of bringing
forward the question of a drawback ?

The CHANCELLOR of the- EXCHEQUER said that
notice of a motion on that subject—for the addition of a clause
at the end of the Bill—would be brought in upon the third
reading.

Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said that there was already
a standing order which compelled Companies to make a provision
for working their line.
Mr. AGLTONBY said that that order did not go far enongh.
Mr. STANSFIELD said that he should press Lis amendment.

In answer to a question from Mr. F. FRENCH,
Sir T. FREMANTLE said that his attention had been
brought to the subject of carriage duties in Ireland, and he
thought that many parts of the law would admit of an
alteration.

NEW ZEALAND.
Mr. SONIES, without making any observations, and merely
stating that ho thought the papers ought to be laid on the
table of the House for the information of the public, moved for
" Copies of all correspondence between the Colonial-office and
the Governor of New Zealand respecting the issue of deben-
tures, and the rendering them a legal tender. Of all corre-
spondence between the same respecting the taxes pro-
posed in the Legislative Council of that colony. Of all cor-
respondenee between the same respecting recent outrages by
the natives in the Bay of Islands, and the abolition of the
custom-house of that district. Of all correspondence respect-
ing the measures taken by the Governor of New Zealand to
fulfil Lord Stanley's agreement of 12th May, 1543, respecting
the grant of a conditional title to the lands of the New Zealand
Company. Of all correspondence respecting the disallowance
by the Governor of New Zealand of any awards made by the
Commissioner of Land Claims respecting the Company's lands.
Of all correspondence relating to a proclamation issued by the
Governor of New Zealand allowing the sale of lands by the
natives at a less price than that fixed by the Act of 5 and 6
Viet., c. 36."
Mr. AGLIONBY seconded the motion. He should not, in
doing so, offer many observations to the House, and even those
he should address to the House he should offer with considera-
ble diffidence and hesitation. From inquiries that had been
made from him by several Hon. Members, he collected that
it was imagined there was an intention to hang upon this mo-
tion for papers the whole question between the New Zealand
Company and her Majesty's Government, or rather he should
say the Colonial-office department. But it was not his inten-
tion, nor that of the Hon. Member for Dartmouth, to raise
that question now ; it was one that might ultimately come be-
fore the House. The House and the public were well aware
that grave allegations had been made by the New Zealand
Company, that they had been treated by the Colonial-office
with a gross want of faith and injustice. The House and the
public were also aware that allegations had been made publicly
to the effect that the Company had been thwarted in all their
attempts to colonise New Zealand, that the progress of their
settlements, and the happiness and interests of the settlers had
been threatened by the hostility of the local Government of the
islands, which was supposed to carry out the views of the Co-
lonial-office. It was alleged also that the local
Government continued its hostile operations both
under the late and present governors there. It was com-
plained that the late governor had a preference for the settle.
mints in the northern part of the island, which were partly
founded by himself. As to the present governor, he was still
more unfortunate, for he was complained of by all parties.
Even the papers published in the seat of the local Govern-
ment stated that its proceedings were now, and had for some
time been, of a character not to be justified by any kind of
policy. It was not his intention to raise the question of the
claims of the colonists, which had been discussed from time to
time, and which had been referred to a Committee of that
House ; and he only alluded to the labours of that Committee for
the purpose of stating his opinion that their report, which em-
bodied the results of their labours, ought not to be allowed to
sink. That report had not been yet produced, out of consi-
deration to the Government and to the Right Honourable
Baronet who was at the head of it, and who
had before them matters which pressed more upon
their attention. The question was now brought before the
House because the claims of the colony and of the colonists had
not met with that consideration which they deserved. The whole
statement of the case was well worthy of the attention of
the House. He had no intention, however, of entering fully
into the subject. He had no wish to make this what was com-
monly called a New Zealand debate. If he were asked why
the Hon. Member for Dartmouth, who was chairman of the
Company, and himself, who was one of the Directors, brought
forward this motion for papers, he would say that it was be-
cause
they knew more of the evils suffered by the colony—more
of the wretchedness and misery endured by the colonists—and
which were entirely attributable to maladministration, than
any Hon. Members of the House. The attention of the Prime
Minister was seldom called to the colonies, and the Colonial
Department, as at present constituted, was utterly indequate
to the management of colonial affairs.—( Hear, hear.) The
affairs of each separate colony did not receive that
attention which they were entitled to. He did not
intend to raise the question of colonial management,
but he believed that no single office, constituted
as the Colonial-office was, could pay that attention to colonial
affairs which they demanded. The reason why he addressed
the House on this subject was, because he believed that he
knew more about it than any other Hon. Member unconnected
with the colony. He would ask, if any other Hon. Member
had the slightest idea of the proceedings complained of by the
colonists, and he thought that he might be eliciting information
that could not be elicited by any other person. The Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government was not aware
of the state of the colonies. According to the routine of office,
the affairs of any particular colony were not brought under the
Right Hon. Baronet's consideration, except under special cir-
cumstances. The Colonial-office itself did not know as much
of the affairs of this colony as was known from private infor-
mation and accounts in the newspapers. But that in-
formation was as a sealed book to the generality of Members.
It was not his intention to go into the details of this matter,
but without embracing it in some measure, he could not per-
form his duty either to the New Zealand Company or to the
public. Among the regulations of the Colonial-office was
one preventing governors issuing debentures wtthout its au-
thority. He begged to ask whether the Government had sanc-
tioned the issuing of debentures for 15,0001. ? He wished to
Majesty'ssYste Ministers—whether the
m of
governing the colony
waswhether
w an theby present system
governor of the colony had power to issue debentures without
the authority of the English Executive? He should be glad if he
could have the governor's minutes produced. It was a document
sctioned
which certainly did not form part of the present notice, but
probably his calling attention to it would induce the Under-
Secretary for the Colonies to lay it on the table of the House
with the other papers. If the policy pursued by the local Go-
vernment were sanctioned by the English Government, he
must say it was highly improper. He gathered this policy
principally from those common sources of information which
were open to everybody, but he could assure the House many
of his private correspondents had confirmed the statements
made in the local papers. What would the agricultural Mem-
bers who occupied the opposite benches say to a Government
imposing a tax of 103. upon every sheep imported into the
colony—a tax upon the very means by which an infant colony
could thrive? But this was not all. What would they think
of a tax being imposed upon every dog required to hind their
sheep ? It might be very well to tax dogs in England, where
clogs were superfluous, but Hon. Members must remember that
New Zealand dogs were rarely to be met with. One would
think that the Government of a new colony would
hold out an inducement to cleanliness—habits of health—
morality, and decency. But what would they think of a
local Government who proposed a tax of 1/. upon every
room above three ? So that a family, large or small, had to
herd themselves together in three rooms. This was a state of
things that ought not to exist. He would not go fully into
the subject, but he must remark, that in consequence of the
course that had been pursued, nine of the countrymen of Eng-
lanebhad fallen in cold blood, and after they had given up their
farms. Had there been any inquiry into this subject? There
had not ; and when it was demanded it was refused. He
saw the Secretary for the Colonies had given a notice to !love
for the report of the Governor of New South Wales ; that
might throw some light upon the subject, but he
was afraid it would not be productive of much good.
He had to complain of another mode which had been resorted
to, which was most unfair. Papers had been sent to the Co-
lonial-office by individuals, and had been issued thence as if
they were official. The grossest acts of cruelty were perpe-
trated upon the settlers by the aborigines, and even upon wo-
men. The only punishment which had been inflicted by the
Governor was, to take ten muskets from ten of the worst of
the rioters ; but lest this punishment might be considered too
sesere, the muskets were again restored to them. He would
not now enter fully into the subject, but reserve himself for a
future occasion ; nor would he mix sp the claims of the Corn:
pany with the questions which he now brought forward. He
would, on a future occasion, move for papers showing the
mode in which the Company had been treated by the Govern-
ment. He wished to call the attention of the House and of
the Government to the sales of land which had taken place in
that colony. The House was aware that, by Act of Parlia-
ment, the minimum was fixed at 1/. peracre. This was in 1843.
But it was currently reported that this Act had been evaded,
and that the Governor by proclamation had allowed sales to take
place by paying 2s. 6d. to the native, and 17s. 6d. to the Go-
vernment. He wished to know whether that was the case ?
It was further said, that the Governor of the Wellington dis-
trict had felt the injustice so much, that he issued a notifica-
tion to the effect, that no persons could purchase, except from the
Crown. The House and the country should bear in mind that
the colony of New Zealand contained 17,000 inhabitants, 10,000
of whom were recent settlers. He was sorry to perceive that
among these the greatest distress prevailed, and there was little
doubt but this distress arose from the maladministration of the
local Government. The Company were not in any way an-
swerable for these results. With respect to the settlement
made by the Company, he could only say that, from having
been most flourishing, it had been brought to ruin by the acts
of the local Government ; and it was further to be observed that
the distress in the Company's districts was not so great as
thoie districts immediately under the subjection of Goverr-
ment. The colony was one of the greatest importance, and
under good government might become a source of great advan-
tage to this country. It had the finest climate and the finest
soil of any island on the face of the globe. It had wonderful
capabilities in point of naval accommodation, and possessed
harbours and means of fitting out ships, which, in time of war,
might be most useful. He would not raise the question
whether or not the settlers went out advisedly or not. They
were there, and must now be protected. The distress of some
of them was so great that they had been maintained at the
sole expense of the country; and although the affairs of that
country were most depressed, they had expended 30,000/. in
public works, for the purpose of i g.v.ng employment to these
poor people. Some of the colonists had escaped to Sidney and
some to Valparaiso, but those that remained were in great
misery. After saying that, he would in a few days move for
other papers connected with the subject, and ultimately bring
the affairs of the company before the House. The Hon. Ment-
hes concluded by seconding the motion.
Mr. G. W. HOPE would protest in the strongest and most
earnest manner against the course pursued by the Hon. Mem-
ber who had just sat down. The Hon. Member moved for in-
formation which a fortnight ago was at his command. The
course tair%utel towards the Government by the Hon. Member
was most unfair. He stated he would bring the case forward
by bits, and ultimately bring the whole of it under the notice
of the House. The Hon. Member laid he would not, on this

The gallery was cleared, and the Committee divided. The
numbers were--

For the amendment
Against
Majority against the amendment

• Lord MARSHAM moved that the word " reasonable " be
omitted from the clause in reference to the charges, and that there
be added the words, " provided that they shall at all times
make an equal rate of charge for the use of locomotive engines,
and other moving power on every part of the railway."
After a short conversation the amendment was withdrawn,
Lord G. SOMERSET premising to reconsider the clause.
Mr. ENTWISLE suggested that the word " toll " should be
struck out altogether, and the charges made subject " to the special
Act of the Company."—The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses 67, 68, and 69, were passed without discussion.
On the reading of clause 70, giving companies the power to
levy tolls,

Lord G. SOMERSET said that this was a very important clause.
It was likely to give rise to much discussion. He thought it better
to postpone the consideration of it till Thursday, when hehoped to
get through the Bill.

The House then resumed, the Chairman reported progress, and
obtained leave to sit again on Thursday.
The House then adjourned till Five o'clock.

The House resumed at Five o'clock.
NEWCASTLE AND SHIELDS RAILWAY.
Mr. ORD presented a petition in favour of the Newcastle
and Shields Railway.
TRENT VALLEY EXTENSION RAILWAY
On the motion of Mr. M. PHILIPS, the Trent Valley
Extension Railway Bill was read a second time.
SOUTH-EASTERN RAILWAY EXTENSIONS.
Mr. ESCOTT brought up the report on these extensions.
It was stated that the standing orders in this case might be
dispensed with, and leave was given to bring in separate Bills.
NEWARK AND SHEFFIELD RAILWAY.
On the motion of Mr. STRUT T, leave was granted to bring
in the Newark and Sheffield Railway Extension Bill.
Several Hon. Members brought up Railway Bills, in which
the standing orders had been complied with.
HUDDERSFIELD WATERWORKS BILL.
This Bill was read a first time.
Mr. HAWES presented a petition from the rated inhabi-
tants of Lambeth in favour of the South-Eastern Extension
Railway Bill.
Sir H. DOUGLAS presented a petition from Liverpool,
praying that those merchants who had a stock of sugar on hand
might be allowed a drawback. The Hon. and Gallant Member
heartily concurred in the prayer of the petition.
Mr. THOS. DUNCOMBE presented a petition signed by
3,000 miners of Durham, complaining of the explosions that
had taken place in that part of the country, and praying the
House to take the subject into its consideration.
Mr. LIDDELL presented a petition from a place in
Durham, praying that public-houses might be closed on
Sundays.
Lord G. SOMERSET proposed the following Members for
the Committee of classification on Railway Bills :—Sir R. H.
Inglis, Mr. Fox Maule, Lord Mahon, Sir Wm. Somerville,
and Mr. Wilson Patten.
Mr. ESTCOURT moved that no private Bill other than
Railway Bills be read a second time after Friday, the 18th of
April next, and also that, as soon as the agent for any private
B:11 shall have received from the Committee of Selection notice
of the hour and day fixed for the Committee on such Bill, he
shall forthwith give notice thereof to the clerks in the Private
Bill-office.
The motion was agreed to.
SUGAR DUTIES.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from several sugar refiners
in Scotland, praying, before any alteration was made in the
sugar duties, a delay should be granted them in order to dis-
pose of their stocks in hand.
Mr. MACKINNON presented a petition from the Com-
missioners appointed by Act of Parliament to consolidate
certain Bills affecting the borough of Southwark.
RAILWAYS.
Mr. HUME, on behalf of Mr. Wallace, postponed his mo-
tion relative to railways, and railway passengers and traffic.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Sir R. PEEL gave notice that on Thursday next he would
move the adjournment of the House from Thursday, the 20th
instant, to the Monday week following. The state of public
business would not admit of a longer postponement.
WEXFORD, CARLOW, AND DUBLIN JUNCTION

RAILWAY.
Mr. W. COLLETT presented a petition in favour of the
Wexford, Carlow, and Dublin Junction Railway, from the
Harbour Commissioners of Wexford.
BUENOS AYRES AND MONTE VIDEO.
Lord PALMERSTON said he rose for the purpose of
putting to the Right Hon. Baronet a question, of which he had
given notice a few days ago, with regard to the hostilities now
being carried on between Buenos Ayres and the State of Monte
Video. The House well knew that between these two States there
had existed for three years past a state of hostility more or
less violent ; and that the British Government at one time
endeavoured, by an offer of mediation, between the two
parties to put an end to that hostility. The question which he
was going to ask was founded on documents which had been
published in the newspapers of Monte Video, in which had
appeared a correspondence between the British Minister at
Buenos Ayres, and the Minister for Foreign
Affairs at Monte Video. Founding himself entirely on
that correspondence, he learned that in the summer of 1842
the British Government determined to interfere, and
to put an end to these hostilities by foreign interference.
Now, without at all expressing any opinion one way or the
other upon the policy of the question, as to whether it was one
which should warrant the interference of the Government of
this country as a third party, he would say he was en-
titled to an answer.—(Hear.) It was quite true that those two
States had an undoubted right to quarrel amongst themselves ;
and, therefore, without saying which party was in the wrong—
whether either, or one, or both was to blame, he would still
contend for it that his question should be answered.
It appeared by a letter which he had read, and which had been
sent to Mr. Mandeville, the Monte Videan Consul, by the
'ecretary of State for Foreign Affairs, that it was the wish
and the intention of the British Government to use every effort
to put an end to the war. However, in the year 1842, Lord
Cowley had an interview with M. Guizot, and the latter gen-
tleman concurred with the Noble L'ird that there should be an
end to this war, and that he was ready to enter into any ar-
rangement that might be proposed for that purpose. On the
113th of December, 1842, an official note was sent to the Go-
vernment of Buenos Ayres, with an intimation to Mr. Mande-
ville, which he would now recd. The letter appeared in a
Monte Video paper, and had been translated into Portuguese ;
he would endeavour to read it, making allowance for some ver-
bal inaccuracies. The Noble Lord having read the letter,
went on to say :—He wished to know what were the grounds
which led to that change, and whether that change was fully
communicated to the two Governments concerned. And he
would also ask, whether there was any objection to lay on the
table of the House such papers connected with the matter as
might be communicated without injury to the public service ?
Sir ROBERT PEEL said the statement which had been
made by the Noble Lord with respect to that which had been
presented by our Minister and the representative of France to
the Government of Buenos Ayres was substantially correct.
He ( Sir Robert Peel) held in his hand the formal note which
had been presented, and although there were some variations
in expressions, yet still the Noble Lord was sub-
stantially correct. In December It 42, the representatives of the
two countries made communications to Buenos Ayres, to the
effect stated by the Noble Lord. In January, 1843, they
went further, and stated that the fleets of England and
France had sailed from Europe for the purpose of forcible
intervention. In June, 1843, he ( Sir Robert Peel) was
asked, whether or not the representatives of this country had
been entirely justified by their instructions in making their
communications to Iluenos Ayres ; and whether they had full
authority to inform that Government, that in ease of amicable
intervention failing, there would be forcible intervention, for
the purpose of putting an end to those lamentable hostilities
which even then had so long prevailed. He stated that the
representatives of France and England had been instructed to
urge on the Governments of the two belligerent Powers the
policy of suspending these hostilities, and terminating theta by
amicable negotiations. He stated at that time, that those re-
presentatives were not justified in holding oat the menace
of forcible intervention. He thought the Ministers
of France and England had gone beyond their instructions.
The Noble Lord had alluded to the correspondence which had
taken place between M. Mandeville and the Secretary of Fo•
reign Affairs in France. There was now the most cordial un-
derstanding between this country and France with respect to
the termination of hostilities between Buenos Ayres and Monte
Video. Mr. Mandeville had read a communication from the
Secretary of State, and it was owing to that communication
that Mr. Mandeville drew an erroneous inference with respect
to the intentions of the two Governments; and though Mr.
Mandeville had exceeded his instructions—though he had done
wrong in, stating to the Governments of Monte Video and
Buenos Ayres, that he had good reason to believe that hosti-
lities would be put an end to—yet, looking to Mr. Mandeville's
position, and the extreme difficulties he had to contend with,
he was yet bound to do justice to the motives of Mr. Mande-
ville. Certainly, after what had taken place, seeing
that Mr. Mandeville, the representative of this coun-
try to Buenos Ayres, had carried on a confidential com-
munication with the Secretary for Foreign Affairs at Monte
Video, they thought that he had put himself in such a position
that he could not resume his office with efficiency in that effect
but at the same time there was nothing in the conduct of
Mr. Mandeville to disentitle him to the confidence of the
British Government. Acting as he did, on the best intentions,
he should be sorry to imply any strong censure upon the con-
duct of a gentleman placed in his position. As they were
about to renew their representations to the Government of
Buenos Ayres, acting in harmony with the French Govern-
ment on the subject, most earnestly imploring that they would
put a stop to their senseless hostilities, it was not the time to
lay on the table of the House the communications which bad
taken place.
Lord PALMERSTON said he thought that Mr. Mande-
ville had been officially employed to negotiate a treaty with
Monte Video, and that it was necessary on his part that ho
should be in communication with Mr. Vidal.
Sir R. PEEL said that Mr. Vidal was sick at the time,
and it was an act of treachery to publish his letter.
Mr. HUME moved for a "return, showing the total number
of pensioners frGi,:: ar,oy, on the pension establish-
ment, from the year 1834 to the year 1643, both years inclu-
sive; specifying the number received in each year from each
branch of the service, viz., from the Dragoon Guards and

Gentleman made against the Colenial-mice, he (Colonel R.
Trevor) had nothing to do. He had only to deal with the
charges against the Gallant Officer at the head of the colony.
There could be no objection to a Member of that House malt-
ing charges against any servant of the Crown. But he thought
any Member went too far when he drew unfavourable in..
ferences frcm general statements, without any specific facts.
He thought it would have been better to wait until the Govern-
ment and Captain Fitzroy had an opportunity of communicat-
ing the facts to the House. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
said that Captain Fitzroy made up his mind upon the informa-
tion he received from the murderers, without hearing the colo-
nists. But this was not the fact, for the opinions stated by that
officer were the same as were expressed by the Colonial Secre-
tary before Captain Fitzroy went out to New Zealand. The
Hon. and Learned Member for Liskeard himself admitted that
the warrant was illegal, imprudent, and injudicious.
Mr. C. BULLER—I did not say illegal, I said imprudent
and injudicious.—( Hear, hear.)
Colonel TREVOR—The Attorney-General of the colony
denied that it was illegal. He would not have risen but for
the extraordinary, unfair, and unbecoming language used to.
wards Captain Fitzroy.— (Hear, hear.) That officer had de-
voted all the energy of his mind for the benefit of the colony,
and it was very hard that he should be assailed in his absence
at so great a distance. No voice could be raised in his behalf
in answer to these charges, for four or five months, whilst
those charges rested only on partial information.—( Hear. )
Captain Fitzroy had been so much occupied with the affairs
of the colony, that not one of his relations had received one
line from him.—( Hear.) It would, therefore, have been only
justice to an absent officer to abstain from attacking him,
until his friends were in a Position to explain his acts.
Colonel WOOD would not go into the merits of
the case, but he would protest against two epithets applied to
Captain Fitzroy, who was a distant connexion of his (Colonel
Wood's). He trusted the Hon. and Learned Member for
Liskeard would, on reflection, regret that he had applied to a
gallant naval officer the terms " foolish and incompetent."—
( Hear.) Captain Fitzroy had been many years in the service
of the country. He had been long employed in the survey of
the coast of South America, after which he brought his little
vessel, at great cost to himself, round the world. In that voyage
he touched at New Zealand, and he ultimately accepted the
Governorship at the request of the Company itself, after he had
refused two or three other lucrative appointments.--( Hear.)
Mr. BULLER—Not at the request of the Company.
Colonel WOOD found that he was wrong, it was at the re-
quest of the Colonial Secretary.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
If the whole transaction were before the House, it would bear
a very different complexion.
Sir W. JAMES said it should be remembered that the at-
tack upon Captain Fitzroy was founded upon very imperfect
information.—( Hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member for
Liskeard himself said that nine-tenths of the information on
the affairs of Zealand was from the newspapers. He hoped,
therefore, that it would go forth to the country that this was
newspaper information and a newspaper spirit.—( Hear, hear. )
He could not conceive that any facts could be brought forward
to justify the assertion that Captain Fitzroy had, on any occa-
sion, been guilty of conduct unbecoming either a gentleman or
an officer, nor did he believe the statement the Hon. Member
had made would increase his character or reputation in the
country, unless he were prepared substantially and most accu-
rately to prove it.—(Hear, hear.) He would sympathise with
the Honourable Member for Liskeard, when he lamented the
death of his friend, and if the Hon. Gentleman bad not made
use of language in reference to Captain Fitzroy which was un-
justifiably strong, he would not have ventured to trespass upon
the time of the House. He hoped, however, the Hon. Mem-
ber would see the necessity of retracting some of the expres-
sions which he had thought proper to use. The expressions
if unfounded in fact, were certainly unbecoming a gentleman,
and he therefore hoped the Hon. Member would either bring
forward some exceedingly strong facts, or else withdraw the
expressions altogether. Captain Fitzroy had, in more than
one instance, proved himself to be a valuable servant ; and if
there was a person upon whom he could lay his finger as a
man remarkable for public integrity, er remarkable for his pri-
vate virtues or humanity that man was Captain Fitzoy.
Sir CHARLES NAPIER admitted the justness of the cu-
logium which had been passed upon Captain Fitzroy by the
Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the House. He was a
remarkably clever man. He had made discoveries and surveys
in a most singular and peculiar manner, but the House must re-
member that a man might be able to make a very good survey, and
yet be a precious bad Governor.—(Laughter.) The Govern-
ment, in his opinion, made a grand mistake when they
sent Captain Fitzroy to govern New Zealand. He would
have made a much better Chancellor of the Exchequer.—
(Laughter.) Nevertheless, he was a gallant officer, but in-
stead of shaking hands with the murderers of Captain Wake-
field, he ought to have executed them.—( Cheers. )
An Hole. 51E3IBER said he knew from other sources than the
public prints that, from some cause or other, the conduct of
Captain Fitzroy had not been such as ought to be expected
from a public officer. He should not, however, have addressed
the House had not the Hon. Member for Liskeard alluded to a
gentleman with whom he was personally acquainted. He knew
from private information that the conduct of Capt. Fitzroy to-
wards Mr. Dillon had been, he would not say, ungentlemanly,
but certainly it was not such as generally characterised the
usual courtesy which was due from one gentleman to another.
Sir R. PEEL regretted that the debate had extended so fare
It would, he thought, have been much better if Hon. Members
who had lately addressed the House had, like the Hon.
Gentleman who moved for the papers, allowed the motion to
pass without remark. Had this course been pursued, he did
not anticipate that any opposition would have been offered to
the motion, as his Noble Friend at the head of..the Colonial.
Department, and the Hon. Gentleman who represented him
in that House, were perfectly ready to give the Hon. Gen-
tleman all the information he required. If they had de-
sired to call in question the acts of Captain litzroy, he
thought it would have been fair to postpone it until
they had got the papers before them. But, as it was, he
thought injustice had been done both to his Noble Friend at
the head of the Colonial-office, and to Captain Fitzroy, by the
comments which had been made that night. One Hon. Gen-
tleman had gone so far as to say that the Colonial Department
showed great ignorance in their policy towards New Zealand,
because they, as well as the public, had been in possession of
certain information three months, and yet his Hon. Friend had
not recalled Captain Fitzroy. Another Hon. Member had
made use of language which, he must say, was highly unjus •
tifiable. The Hon. Gentleman said it was the duty of his
Hon. Friend to send over a keeper for Captain Fitzroy. bow,
in his opinion, there was nothing to justify this remark as di-
rected against Captain Fitzroy.—( Hear, hear. ) What were
the facts of the case ? Why, true it was, his Hon. Friend had
not formally made a statement to the public with respect to
this paper currency, but he had nevertheless declared the fact
that Captain Fitzroy had, from some cause or
other, omitted to send any information on the
subject. It was possible, however, that there might
have been some cause to prevent Captain Fitzroy forwarding
his papers. But be that as it may, Captain Fitzroy had omit.
ted to send them, and it would be for him to give some reason
why :this deficiency should be overlooked. There was no
doubt, then, that his Hen. Friend was not in possession of any
official information on the subject, and would it therefore be
just to condemn, still more to recal an officer performing duties
in a distant colony upon newspaper information?—( Hear, hear. )
Such information as the Colonial-office was in possession
of, should be freely given. His Noble Friend was perfectly
right in postponing any comments upon these acts of
Captain Fitzroy, until he should have received an explanation
from that gentleman. It would be unjust for his Hon. Friend
to condemn Captain Fitzroy, without giving him an opportu-
nity of explaining his conduct. They were not in possession
of the ordinance relating to the unconvertible paper cur-
rency, and still less were they in possession of any official ac-.
count from Captain Fitzroy, stating the circumstances under
which that order was issued ; and therefore the com-
ments of the Hon. Member upon the ignorance of his Noble
Friend were entirely out of place, and unwarranted by the
facts. With respect to debentures, there was no act of Captain
Fitzroy of which' they had not taken official cognizance, and
when they thought them good they approved of them, and
when the debentures were unsatisfactory they directed them to
be modified.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman con-
demned his Hon. Friend for appointing a naval man to the
office of governor of a colony. The Honourable Gentle-
man said it was not proper to take a man from the quarter-
deck, and set him to perform functions which attached
to a civil Government. Now he was not prepared to acquiesce
in this doctrine. He should be sorry, indeed, to say that
either a military or a naval officer was incompetent to per-
form such functions. He could see no reason why gen-
tlemen who had distinguished themselves in one of the
two services should not be appointed to these offices.
But they were talking of a man who had distinguished him-
self not merely in active naval service, but in the scientific
part of that profession. He was a man, moreover, who bad a
kindly disposition, and had throughout life been distinguished
for strict honour and integrity. The New Zealand Company
did not object to his appointment, because he found, after the
appoitnment was made known to the New Zealand Company,
Mr. Ward, the Secretary of the Company, addressed a letter
to Captain Wakefield, wherein he expressed himself warmly in
favour of Captain Fitzroy. Then the Company had a personal
conference with Captain Fitzroy, and afterwards they con-
sidered it to be their duty to notify to their agent in the colony
what were their impressions with respect to this officer;
and, again, Captain Fitzroy was spoken of by the New Zealand
company in the inost favourable towns. That was the opinion
expressed by the Company after communicating with Captain
Fitzroy, and therefore whatever the Honourable Member
opposite might now say with respect to the disqualifications
of Captain Fitzroy, his answer was c mclusive and complete.
It must be remembered that Captain Fit zroy relinquished a
seat in Parliament, and gave up a lucrative situation, to un-
dertake the government of New Zealand. The gallant
gentleman could not, therefore, be said to have taken
office with a view to remuneration. On the contrary, he believed
that Captain Fitzroy was actuated in such a step only by a
sense of public duty, and by a benevolent desire to become
an instrument of good. He fully sympathised with some
of the feelings and sentiments of the Hon. Member for Lis-
keard, for it was not to be wondered at that the Hon. Member
should lament the untimely fate of his friend.—( Hear, hear.)
But still lie must ask the House to suspend its final opinion
upon this case of Captain Fitzroy until they could hear from
the gentleman himself. It was consistfernottnwcithaptjauisntieethat
they should wait until they had a report Fitzroy,
who certainly had omitted to forward them certain in-
formation,
thletart?
Thethi
Hon. Member for Cockermouth had delayed a motion on the
this
but he would ask the House, whether it
soomfe accidentprobab oilitryot
subject of New Zealand and the Colonial-office, to give him an
owmasissinoon not within
wibteheinn occasionedthera range
ey
opportunity to make himself master of the subject ; but he
could assure the Honourable Member that whenever he
brought his motion forward, he should be perfectly pre-
pared to take his part in the debate. His Noble Friend
had laid on the table of the House the dispatch rela-
tive to the report of the Committee. It was in pos-
session of the instructions he had given. His Noble
Friend did not shrink from any examination of his conduct.
~He .ass;c•oolunled say
enno in upon
ong
Gentlemen
sb n sbo
ew
prepared; but the
to
bringtim e
forward a motion, if they intended to do so, so as to enable his
friends in that House to vindicate his Noble Friend.
Lord HOWICK said that, as it was evident this subject
must be brought forward in a shape which would enable the
House to pronounce a judgment upon both the conduct of the
Government and Captain Fitzroy, he would not on the present
occasion enter upon the field of discussion. He rose for the
purpose of saying that he did not think there was anything in
the language used by his Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Buller)
of which the Right Honourable Baronet could justly complain.
His Hon. and Learned Friend felt strongly upon the miscon-
duct of the Colonial Government, and in a speech, no less dls-
tinguished by moderation than ability, imputing no blame to
the motives of Captain Fitzroy, he condemned—what every
person was at liberty to condemn—the exercise of his judg-
ment, and in his (Lord Howiek's) opinion his Hon. Friend
could not condemn that judgment too strongly.—( Hear, hear.)
He concurred with his Hon. and Learned Friend in the opinion
that the conduct of Captain Fitzroy, so far as his judgment
was concerned, was utterly without defence. The Right Hon.
Baronet said that they ought not to condemn Captain Fitzroy
unheard, and that the reports of newspapers were not to be de-
pended on. But the newspapers gave formal reports of what
took place in the colony, so that it was not mere rumour.
When they had dependencies at such a distance, care should
be taken to inform Government of what was going on. Cap.
tairi Fitcroy might, at least, have sent home a dispatch which
would arrive as soon as the newspapers, and there was no pos-
sible justification for his not having done so.—( Hear, hear. )
While the welfare of 12,000 or 14,000 persons was in peril from
a total disorganisation, and while accounts of an alarming na-
ture had been brought home far a long time, it was with sur-
prise he learned that her Majesty's Government had Dot led

sures canvassed by the colonists. They had in the island a
legislature, it was true, but it consisted of the Attorney-General,
the Colonial Secretary, and the Colonial Treasurer, and three
independent members; but the three official members,
by the assistance of the Governor, were always
able to outvote the independent members. There
was no disgrace in that matter. The whole thing was
a perfect despotism—a round-about despotism it might be,
but a despotism nevertheless. Of these three despotic go-
vernors, two of them had belonged to the Royal Navy. He
did not mean to speak disrespectfully of the Royal Navy,
but he must say that the Royal Navy was the very
last place to choose a governor from who would be vested with
de retie powers. They had no light charges to make agailist
Governor Fitzroy. He would state three instances of his mis-
management while governor, that must convince every person
of his utter incompetence for that onerous position. It was
said and maintained, that the Government of the Right Hon.
Baronet had disseminated the soundest views with respect to
currency, and it was therefore the more extraordinary that the
Governor of New Zealand should, upon the.subject of finance,
differ as widely as he possibly could from the Right Hon.
Baronet. Would the House suppose that in any part of the
world there existed an inconvertible paper currency? Could
they imagine any thing mere monstrous? And yet such had
been established in New Zealand by Governor Fitzroy. In
In England they had, at a considerable sacrifice, returned to a
gold currency, but in the colony of New Zealand they had got
an inconvertible currency established. In this country they
never allowed a paper currency to be issued for any amount
under a pound. But Captain Fitzroy had issued five shilling
and two shilling assignats. There was something wicked in
such bad political economy. What was the object of this issue
of ss. and 2s. assignees ? They were issued to pay work-
men's wages. And what were the consequences of
that issue? This—the depreciation of that currency.
These assignats were in a course of deprecia-
tion at the very time the Gevernor issued his proclamation.
But supposing that some accredited party had stated that
the parent country gave no authority to the Governor to
issue these assignats, what would then be the consequence?
Why, it must naturally have followed, that the credit of the
colony would suffer by the conduct of the Governor, and that
the depreciation of the currency would be reduced to the
very lowest scale. What would be the further consequence
when the 2s. assignees would perhaps have been depreciated
to 2d. ? Why, that they would have to pay 15,1001. on as-
signals for which they would not get 15,000 pence. Was not
that scandalous ? Was it to be tolerated that any Governor
should so trifle with the community, and so violate the most
simple 'principles laid down by the Government which had ap-
pointed him? Captain Fitzroy was not merely incompetent.
He was pesitively mischievous and dangerous, as in every
blunder of his kind he entailed the most extensive harm...—.
(Hear, hear.) Such blunders as these were enough to con-
demn any man, no matter how superior his other qualities
might be. Let them now turn to his system of taxation.
What did they find there ? Why they found that the Governor
taxed every sheep imported 10s., and cattle 20s. Let them
conceive a man doing all he could to destroy the resources of
the country over which he was appointed Governor ; if he tried
his very best, he could not do more than Captain Fitzroy had
done.—( Hear, hear.) Since the time of the Houynyhms,
they had never heard of such a thing as abolishing the customs
in one part of a province, and allowing it to remain in another.
—(Laughter and cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Member
then read a letter complaining of the misrule in the Island.
The natives begged to have the custom-house abolished in the
Bay of Islands, and they ended by pulling down the flag-staff.
The Governor sent to Sydney for forces, he alarmed the
authorities there out of their wits, and 150 men were sent to
his assistance. The natives requested him to send them back.
He did so, and in order to conciliate them further, he abolished
the custom-house in the Bay'of Islands, and left them standing
over the other parts of the colony. What could the man mean
by leaving the custom-house in one place and abolishing it in
another ? Helping the Bay of Islands and ruining the port of
Auckland. What would they think of the Government if it
abolished the customs at Bristol and left them in full and active
operation over the rest of the country ?—( Hear, hear.)
Did they suppose that any ship would unload at any other
port while Bristol was so privileged ? Did they think that the
Ministry would come down to the House and say that they
ought to be supported because they had abolished the custom.
house in Bristol ? The Duke of ituckingham, he thought it
was, who, at some public meeting lately held, came down
pregnant with information, and complained to the audience—
an agricultural audience—of the Right Hon. Baronet, and of
his speech on the budget. He complained that the Right
Hon. Baronet did not mention the agricultural interest at all ;
and he added, " We are treated as if we were a colony."—
( Very great laughter.) That was the way in which the Duke
of Buckingham spoke of their colonies. " They care for us no
more than if we were a colony."—(Renewed laughter. )
" They care nothing for us—let us legislate for ourselves."
Such was the literal interpretation of this remark, "They care
for us as for a colony." The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Aglionby)
had touched but lightly on the subject of the proclamation. By
the sth and 6th of Victoria it was enacted that no waste land in
the colony should sell for a less sum than 1/. per acre, and the
question therefore was, whether land held by the natives was
to be considered and sold as waste land. If the House
referred to the 23d section of that Act, they
would find that waste lands were intended to de-
scribe the lands vested in the Crown with the sanction of the
natives. This was a most just and a most humane enactment.
It was intended to protect the savage by making all such sales
pass through the hands of Government. All lands held by the
natives and sold to Europeans became vested in the Crown as
a matter of right ; and, under the terms of the Act, lands sold
in New Zealand became part of the waste lands of the Crown.
No man could doubt that such was the proper reading of the
Act of Parliament. He (Mr. C. Buller) complained that by
a single stroke of the Governor's pen he reduced the value of
land in the colony from 20s. to 10s. They had asked for in-
formation upon six subjects connected with the administration
of New Zealand, and they had only got information upon one
of them. Some mention had been made of the Wahrou mas-
sacre, of the slaughter of nine gentlemen who had
surrendered to the natives.—( The Honourable and
Learned Gentleman was so much affected, that for several
seconds he could not proceed.) He trusted the House would
excuse him if he felt upon this subject. He knew one of these
gentlemen well—he meant Captain Wakefield,—one of the most
promising officers in her Majesty's navy ; and to think of such
a man perishing in a distant colony, by the tomahawk of the
savage, through the incapacity of a man like Captain Fitzroy,
who had afterwards come forward and said that the conduct of
those persons (referring to those unfortunate gentlemen) was an
indelible disgrace to their country. He should be more ge-
nerous to Captain Fitzroy than he was to the unfortunate Cap-
tain Wakefield, and he would not go into that matter. It had
originated in a dispute about land, in which the Commissioners
of Colonial Lands would or could not decide the point of sale,
because the natives were not present. The parties in the other
cases had been before him, and he had decided that in those
cases the property had been sold fairly and for its full
consideration. They thought they had a right to that land,
they went to survey it, and the natives came down and burned
their houses. The magistrates at Wellington, on information
of the circumstances being communicated to them, very un-
wisely and improperly issued a warrant against the natives.
That course was irrational. They went out, and he must say
for the magistrate, Mr. Johnson, and the other gentlemen who
accompanied him, that they were grievously misled in the
characters of the people with whom they had to do. The
natives in the neighbourhood of Nelson were few in num-
ber, and not at all of a warlike temperament. They generally
submitted to the decisions of the law, and the unfortunate
Mr. Johnson and his friends were not aware of the for.
midable tribe against whom they were proceeding, or of their
Raphuera, who was the principal object of their
search. A conflict took place ; the gentlemen stood their
ground, and were massacred by the natives.
Savage and horrible as the customs of those people were, they
had acted according to their established usages, and God
forbid that he should say they were to be punished for them,
according to the usages of English law. All he said was, that
Captain Fitzroy ought to have protected the European in-
habitants, instead of encouraging the native aggressors. But
his proclamation was, that he would severely punish those who
had escaped from the tomahawk of the savage. The conse-
quence was, that the inhabitants of Wellington, who had held
meetings for the purpose of defending themselves against their
threatening assailants, were thrown into the greatest alarm. In
such a state of things a wise Government would have said to
those who had armed themselves to protect the settlement,
" We thank you for what you have endeavoured to do, but
now we have sent a body of soldiers for your protection, and
you may return to your peaceable pursuits."—( Hear, hear.)
But what did the Governor actually do? He issued a procla-
mation that such meetings of the inhabitants were treasonable,
and if they were held again, those who took part in them
should be cut down by the soldiers. He called a meeting
of the inhabitants of Wellington, and denounced
their conduct in the words which he (Mr. Buller)
had mentioned. Having given every encouragement to the
aborigines, he went to Nelson. Now, there were in that set-
tlement six gentlemen in the commission of the peace—and it
was by no means unimportant to observe, that in so small and
so young a settlement there were five or six gentlemen of pro-
perty and station fit to be placed in the commission of the
peace.—( Hear, hear.) Well, Captain Fitzroy called those
six gentlemen before him, and rebuked them for having issued
the warrant—be it remembered that he (Mr. Buller) did not
defend the warrant. The parties were in a state of war, and
the issue of a warrant was foolish—it was most imprudent and
injudicious—but it was extraordinary, that when officers were
sent out to govern in any of the colonies, they sometimes
thought they were privileged to overlook the feelings of other
gentlemen, and to violate the common decencies of life. Captain
Fitzroy accordingly thought proper to charge one of those six
gentlemen with having written some statement its the news-
paper. The magistrate, Captain Dillon, said that he had not
written in the newspaper. Captain Fitzroy told that gentle-
man " that it was not true !"—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Buller)
might be to'd that these things were not important.--( Hear,
hear.) But he would say that they were of importance. If
gentlemen were induced to go out as settlers to your colonies,
you should take care that those who represent you should
treat them as gentlemen.—( Hear, hear.) Captain Fitzroy
had been but six months in the colony, and he had in that time
contrived to wound the feelings and to endanger the property
of the European inhabitants. The amount of the expenditure
was 36,0001. a year. He (Mr. Buller) thought that was pretty
well for the Governor of a colony of 14,000 inhabitants--
( Hear, hear)—a colony new and struggling with every diffi-
culty.—( Hear, hear.) 36,000/. expenditure for the
Governor of a population of 14,000 was two and a
half times the expenditure of Britain, including
the national debt. In justifying an increase of the expendi-
ture, Captain Fitzroy said that the greatest calamity which a
colony had to avoid was to deprive the officers of their sale-
ries.—( A laugh.) Accordingly he proceeded to make up his
revenue by taxation. He laid a tax upon the importation of
cattle—( Hear, hear)—a tax upon sheep-dogs—( Hear, hear)
and he issued assignats of 2s. and bs. for the payment of
wages. But when the aborigines rebelled against the customs
duties, to please them he abolished three custom-houses out of
four.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Buller) did not want to
make Captain Fitzroy a monster. He did not want the
House to impeach him. He wanted to show what the Go-
vernor was worth by his own acts;
d
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did not want to be hard upon the infirmities and adeficiencies of
human intellect, but he did not think that they were justified
in putting at the head of a colony a man whom they would not
entrust in the common affairs of life.—( Hear, hear.) When
they had the proofs of his incompetency, what was the duty of
the Government but to recal him?—( Hear, bear.) He (Mr.
Buller) did not ask that as a punishment (though he deserved
it)—he did not ask it as a warning to future governors,
(and the warning was wanted) ;—but he asked it for the sake
of the colony, which could never be prosperous or safe whilst
such a man was at its head.—( Hear, hear.) What it was the
duty of the Government to do was—to send out a keeper for
Captain Fitzroy, and to send out his successor at the same
time.—(Hear, hear.) They ought to have recalled him before
this, and they ought to explain why they had not done so.—
( Hear, hear. ) He trusted the House would so express its
opinion on this subject as to prevent the colonies from being
exposed to misrale such as this. —( Cheers.)
Colonel R. TREVOR would not, on this occasion, have
troubled the House, but that he was the only near relation of
the Gallant Officer whom the Hon. and Learned Member for
Liskeard had so unjustifiably assailed in his absence. The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said, in the course of his
speech, that he did not wish to hurt the feelings of any one.
(" Hear" from Mr. Buller.) He (Colonel R. Trevor) was glad
that he, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, assented to his
statement. With the charges which the Hon. and Learned