The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-15 00:00:00

ARRAIGNING OF THE PRISONERS.

At four o'clock,. John Gill andiPeter Dolan were put to the
bar, and arraigned for the wilful murder of Hector Toler,
Earl of Norbury, on the Ist of January, in the second year
of the reign of the Queen. The prisoners were in the garb of
common labourers, and each appeared about 32 yehrs of age.
They pleaded Not Guilty. If the trial for the murder of
Gatchell ends to-morrow, the Norbury case will be tried on
Wednesday—if not, on Thursday. The most intense interest
exists with regard to it. Dolan is charged as the principal,
and Gill as an accessory before the fact.
TIPPERARY (SOUTH RIDING).
_ _

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, March 14.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack at Five o'clock.
Petitions in favour of protect-4n to agriculture were
presented by Lord Prudhoe, from Northumberland ;
by Lord Sondes, from a number of places in Kent ; and
by Lord Brownlow, from Yorkshire.
On the motion of Lord COTTENHAM, the Com-
mittee on the petition presented by the Noble and
Learned Lord on a previous night, respecting Dis-
senters' property,
was appointed.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 14.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
Mr. M. MILNES presented six petitions against
the Bradford and Leeds Railway.
Mr. WALKER presented similar petitions from
the Earl of Derby, the Earl of• Wilton, and others.
Lord WORSLEY presented petitions from York-
shire in favour of the Commons Inclosure Bill.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK presented a petition from
certain persons connected with the silk trade, praying
that the operation of the Factories Bill might not ex-
tend to their trade.
Mr. ALDAM presented a petition from Leeds
against certain clauses of the Factories. Bill.
Lord MAHON presented a petition- from Hert-
ford against any further tax being imposed on coal
imported into the port of London.
Mr. AINSWORTH presented a petition from the
cotton-spinners of Bolton, praying for the abolition
of the duty on cotton wool.
Lord OSSULSTON presented, petitions from
Northumberland, in favour of protection to agri-
culture.
Mr. HARDY presented a petition from Bradford
in favour of a Ten-hours' Bill.
AUSTRALIA.

Mr. G. HOPE said that his Hon. Friend the Member
for Roxburghshire had, last night, moved for certain
papers relating to Australia. In moving for those
papers, his Hon. Friend had entered into a long state-
ment respecting the condition of the squatters in
South Australia. In the ordinary channels of in-
formation this statement had been given to the public,
but his (Mr. Hope's) reply to it had not. He
therefore now rose merely to state that, although the
Government did not object to the production of the
papers moved for by his Hon. Friend, yet they did
not agree with the statement made by the Hon.
Gentleman with respect to the condition of the squat-
ters in South Australia.
Mr. RICARDO presented a petition from the
Potteries, praying for the release of a person confined
for sedition.
Lord SANDON presented a petition from Liver •
pool against the union of the sees of Bangor and St.
Asaph.
NOTICES OF MOTION.

Lord PALMERSTON deferred till this day fort-
night his motion relative to the treaties between
France and England on the subject of the right of
search;
PENINSULAR ARMY.
Col. LEITH HAY. gave notice that, on Wednes-
day, the 20th instant, he should move an address to
her Majesty, praying the Crown to confer some ho-
norary badge of distinction, on the surviving officers
of the Peninsular army.
AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS.
Mr. M. GIBSON postponed his motion on the
deficiency of agricultural statistics, until this day
fortnight.
MORTMAIN.
Lord J. MANNERS gave notice of a motion for
a future day on tho law of mortmain.

CATHOLIC OATH.
Mr. VERNON SMITH, owing to the absence
from town of several Members, whose assistance he
desired to have, postponed his motion for an altera-
tion of the oath taken by Roman Catholics on enter-
ing Parliament,. and gave notice of his intention to
introduce a Bill upon the subject soon after Easter.

A, upot.
THE RECENT DUEL.
Mr. W. 0. STANLEY said that, with the per-
mission of tho House, he begged leave to correct a
mistatement which he had been led into the other
evening with regard to the late duel between Lieut.
Munro and Lieut.-Colonel Fawcett. He stated on
that occasion he heard it reported that on the day be-
tween the provocation and the duel, which was a
Friday, Lieut. Munro, or his second, consulted the
officers of his regiment. Since then he had received
the following letter from Mrs. Munro, Ni hich he would
read to the House :
" 51, Cambridge-terrace, Hyde-park,
" March 12, 1844.

" Sir,—Observing in the Times of to-day a letter
from yourself regarding the late melancholy duel, re-
flecting upon any advice offered to my most unfor-
tunate husband from his brother officers, allow me to
assure you that not one officer still holding a com-
mission in his regiment was consulted on Friday.
The truth is this, that one officer. of 30 years' stand-
ing waseonsulted, likewise a gentlemanof much experi-
ence in those affairs. This gentleman during the day
consulted a general officer, and Lieut. Munro con-
sulted three military friends not in his own regiment,
who all were of opinion that there was no other
course to be adopted but the one he followed.
" I still linger in England to defend my unfortunate
husband's case, as far as lies in my power ; and I again
beg to assure you that there is not the slightest blame
to be attached to any of the officers of the Royal
Horse Guards.
"By publishing this letter, in answer to your's of
this day, to do justice to the officers of the Blues in
this lamentable occurrence, will greatly oblige,
" Sir, your obedient Servant,

" ELIZA MUITRO.
" W. 0. Stanley, Esq., My:,
GREECE.

Mr. B. COCHRANE said ie rose for the purpose
of asking the Government what course they Intended
andinternal
its-resources
were tr ati administration
he oisctfhr then ytehde.y country
hTehl
de
so
to pursue with regard to our future diplomatic re-
lations with Greece. Before the 15th of September
Greece was suffering all the evils incident to petty
was disputes.
mundiceiapra,l pwriverileege destroyed,
of the
and, people,at the same
enfeebled,
The
time, foreign soldiers and mercenary troops
were employed to Perpetuate this state of
things. The best friends of Greece, and those
who 'were best acquainted with the country, as the
Hon. Member for Bolton, anticipated that this would
produce a renewal of those scenes of bloodshed and
violence which had for so long a period' devastated
that country. On the 15th of September the
nation rose in a mass, but they did not commit
a single act of bloodshed or violence. The Con-
stitution was proclaimed, and it was accepted by
the representatives of: France and England ; the
latter of whom, in this respect, anticipated the
feelings of his Government; and here the House would
pardon him if he paid the tribute of his admiration
to that Gallant Officer, who filled the situation of
Minister of this country at the Court of Greece. He
had received communications from Greece informing
him that to the conciliatory policy of Sir E. Lyons,
Greece was indebted for many valuable services.
In any allusion that might be made to the revolu-
tion, he should not at all touch upon the revolution
which affected* the Crown at so recent a period ;
but at the same time he should render his
meed of praise and npprobation to the results
of the late elections. The next point to which he
should refer briefly, was, that with respect
to the communication with Piscatori. In that
it was asserted directly that they were most
anxious to maintain all the, legitimate institu-
tions of the empire in their original integrity.
The document concluded by exhorting King Otho to
use his influence in a moderate and temperate man-
ner, or he would be plunged into 'worse dangers than
those lie had escaped. (The Hon. Gentleman then
read an extract from the dispatch of the Earl of
Aberdeen to. Sir E. Lyon.) He regretted to say
that, since that period, the Russian party had used all
influence in opposition to the other combined parties.
In pursuance of the object of his motion, he could
only state that one of the articles of the Constitution
was guaranteed by the State, and he should wish to
know how far the Government intended to permit
the ratification of that article. It was the 39th ar-
ticle, which stated, that every successor to the throne of
Greece, shall be a member of the Greek Church ;
this article was entirely opposed to the treaty of 1832,
which placed the succession to the Greek throne in
the house of Bavaria, and the next brother of King
Otho was a Roman Catholic. If this article should
be ratified, it must lead to great difficulties, and a
complete subversion of all the objects of the revolution.
Another article was the 70th, which gave the King
the power of appointing officers of the State for life.
There were several minor points, but the succession to
the throne, and the settlement of the Civil List, were
those to which he, desired chiefly to direct the atten-
tion of the Government. 1337 adopting the Constitu-
tion, the Greeks had placed themselves in the posi-
tion in which they would have been in 1832, if the
conditions of the treaty had been fulfilled by the
Allied Powers. It was the duty of the two
Powers, if they had the interest of Greece at heart,
to interfere to prevent the ratification of the articles.
He thought it would be most unwise and injudicious
in the people of that country, if, with the example of
France and England before their eyes, they were not
satisfied with the same amount of constitutional li-
berty as was enjoyed by other European countries.
The King, having so cordially adopted the Constitu-
tion, it • would be' unjust if the people did
not meet him with reliance and good faith.
He thought that the course that had been pursued
was erroneous, and that other means ought to be
taken for the purpose of considering what course
would be best calculated to lead to the proper govern-
ment of Greece. The' Hon. Gentleman concluded
.by moving for correspondence or extracts of any
correspondence, between her M
ajeStrs Government

s
CLoNMEL, MARCH 9.—The Commission Was opened here
this day by the Right Hen. Judge Ball.
Judge BALL (the grand jury having been re-sworn), pro-
ceeded to deliver his charge, and said he was very happy to
grid, with reference to the calendar before him, that the
amount, as well as the general description of crime in this
division p 1 the county, was considerably less than the average
of former assizes, Ho had; procured a return, which had
begla Itancle,tl to him that moment, which he (Judge Ball)
coasklered ,to be an interesting one, and which might also be
found a useittd one. A column annexed to the calendar con-
tained a specific-4,4%1440 tate of education of the prisoners
in gaol, and who were fur triuil,, .nd he found that, with the
.
„
€4,peption of about ten out or spo,yran
?.
e, the others were able
eftheir to read or write ; or, in other ww,ds, that of sixty-one
prisoners, Mir one were so far instructed az either to be able
to read or write. Mat struck him, whether for good or evil,
As A tact well worth ati,iolng to. It also appeared that more
were able to write than to rat:, The fact might not of itself
`ID'. much importance, but if such returns were furnished of
calculated to che.ck it.
the_ state of education at every asslie, they might, to gentle-
winleinfl:ftrience, afford a means of explaining the causes
lie would, therefore, pr
crime within the county, and what means were
the foreman and the inatioritypf the
lie (Judge Ball) had not any occasion
to detain them by making further observations to them, and
to dispose of the bills w rich ..• . Ja,'
~
. d .to take the presentments,
The case in which four men are ' ?"'ift while
grand jury would proceed
f0ui.4,4:- of the late Mr. Scull ../n .F.,4404.; for the wilful
up to them.
y wilt not, wn 44derstand, be
iprom4o).at the present assizes.

THE NA mu. moRTA4 am
splendid trophy, taken. at the siege of Namur by the army
under Sir It. aoodricke, in the reign of William and Mary'
and which was exh►bited in the Armoury at the Tower pre-
vious to the fire, when the carriage was destroyed, has re-
cently been landed at the Tower from Woolwich, where it
had been sent to be refitted.. It is now placed opposite the
Ordnance-office; ami.from its immense size, being 18-inch
)ore, excites much interest and attraction.

and Sir Edmund Lyons, or the Courts of France posed in him that full and entire confidence to which
and Russia, relating to recent events in Greece. he was entitled. It was an honour to the profession
Sir R. PEEL trusted the House would permit 'the to which he belonged that he should discharge his du -
Government to exercise a large discretion with re- ties with such discretion, fidelity, and ability.
spect to the part of the correspondence which it should Sir H. DOUGLAS concurred entirely in some of
be advisable to produce. The correspondence which he the views thrown out by the Noble Lord, the Member
(Sir R. Peel) would produce would rather refer to the for Tiverton, and especially in reference to the main-
general principles which this country, acting in con- spring of the revolution in Greece. It was
cert with the Government of France, had advised not a revolution in the ordinary sense of the
the National Assembly of Greece to pursue, in lay- word. It was one of those military pronun-
ing the foundation of their future constitutional eiamentos of which they had seen so many of late.
government. He thought the House and the Hon. He begged to remind the House that the great
Gentleman would admit that those instructions and object of the Greek revolution was the full and entire
that advice had been influenced -by the purest mo- separation, spiritual and temporal, of the Greek
fives, and the sincerest wishes,
.to establish in Church from the Patriarchate of Constantinople. By
Greece a popular representative and constitu- the first article of the protocol which he held in his
tional government, combined, at the same time, hand, it was provided-that the Greek Church should
with such institutions as should secure the existence recognise no spiritual head but our Saviour, Jesus
of a limited monarchy. He thought that the corres- Christ ; and he thought that the Noble Lord must
pondence which he should lay before the House be well aware of the serious inconveniences that
would fully prove the truth of his assertion. But he had arisen in the lonian Islands for want of this
should feel exceedingly unwilling to lay before the separation. . When the late Government were in
House at present any correspondence with regard power, the connection with the Patriar.Ohate of Con-
to the details which were now under consider- stantinople impeded many contemplated acts of im-
ation. Ile thought that the way in which provement ; and at length the Greeks became so im-
the National Assembly and the constituted patient of dictation from that quarter, that he was
authorities had acted up to the present time, obliged to order the British Ambassador positively to
showed that they were deserving of public con- insist that the separation should take place. All
fidence- He thought that at present it would be very the struggles of Greece would be unavailing, all
impolitic to enter into a discussion on the subject. her blood had been shed for nothing, if she was still
—(Rear, hear.) As a proof of the inexpedi- to continue in spiritual subjection to the Patriarchate
ency of entering into these discussions at present, of Constantinople. The Noble Lord had truly
he would mention one circumstance. If the Hon. stated upon what family the election was
Gentleman had asked him, at four o'clock, what was likely to fall if the monarchy became elective.
the decision of the Assembly of Greece on the subject These were the great objects for which the Greek
of the duration of the term of office of Ministers in people were struggling, and with which the people of
that country, he could not have given him any infor- Europe, and the whole civilised world would sympa-
mation on the subject, but, after the lapse of a few thise and agree with them.
minutes, he was enabled to inform him that accounts Sir R. H. INGLIS thought that the proposition of
had been received from Greece during the course of the Noble Lord would come under the term
the-present -day, with the result of the discussion of of what might be denominated ultra-liberal.
that subject hi the Greek Assembly. A division had He thought the conduct of Sir Edmund Lyons was
taken place on the question, and the votes had been quite free from the slightest imputation of blame, and
equal on each side—ninety-eight having voted for that no appointment had ever been made by the Noble
the limitation of the time of holding office to ten Lord which was so unobjectionable as that one.
years, and ninety-eight for office being held during life. In his opinion, that gentleman was entitled to repre-
It was expected that a division would take place the sent England and its interests, not only on
next day, which would decide the question. The account of his uniting the high character of an
House would therefore see, whilst these great ques•• English gentleman with that of an eminent officer,
tions were under discusssion in the Assembly The Noble L9rd had said that the three protective
of Greece, properly and constitutionally constituted, Powers were entitled 'to claim a Constitution for
how extremely inconvenient it would be to have these Greece. More than that, the King himself had ten
matters discussed in the British House of Commons. years ago promised to give a Constitution, and it
He felt assured that the House would agree with him was by virtue of that pledge he continued to govern
that it would be exceedingly improper to attempt any that Le and glorious country. He believed that a
premature discussion of the subject in that House, grosser system of tyranny was exercised in that country
lest they, should create an unjust and improper pre- during those ten years, than in any other country in
judice on the subject. Every effort had been Europe for a century. He would not stop to inquire
made since the commencement of these proceed- whether what had happened on the 15th September was
ings, both by the British and by the French worthy of the name of a revolution ; but it was of
Governments, to give such advice only as such a nature as to recommend anything even bear-
it -was fitting for them to give, and as it was ing that name to him. He should not go along with
also fitting for a free nation, like the nation of Greece, his Gallant Friend in. saying that it was a military
to receive.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the loan, movement. He believed the revolution was prepared
he trusted that the Hon. Gentleman would excuse by the scarcely endurable despotism of the King—
him if he declined giving any answer on the subject (Hear, hear)—and that the soldiers shared, but did
at present. Although at one time it might have not lead, the feeling of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
been considered expedient to insist upon the repay- Sir H. DOUGLAS explained.
ment of the loan, yet when they considered what Mr. B. COCHRANE replied.
had recently taken place, he thought the House would The motion was then agreed to.
agree with him in opinion that allowances ought to THE PORTE. •
be made for a people who were passing through such
Mr. M. MILNES, in rising, according to notice,
a crisis as the. people of Greece were passing through
"to call, the attention of the House to the resent
at present. He hoped the House would feel assured that
state of criminal jurisdiction over British subjects
every attempt would be made, on, the part of the Go-
within the.. dominions.. of the Porte," said he. mustj
vernment, to reconcile the duty which they owed to
found. his justification for bringing forward his this country as the guardians of the public purse, with
ton on the enormous practica importance of the
mo-
what they felt was due to a country placed in such
a osition as that which Greece now occupied.— question. He knew how very few Members took any
p
(Cheers.) , In about ten days he hoped to be able to
interest in what were called foreign affairs, proceed-
lay on the table of the House all that portion of
ing
tirom circumstances on which he would not then
the correspondence which he should think it right to ala e ; and when to
produce, and which he trusted would be found siiffi • the one that there was no representative of the foreign
cient to satisfy the Hon. Member.—(Cheers.) department of the Government in that House, and
Lord PALMERSTON confessed that the answer
that any one wishing to bring forward such a motion
which the Right Hon. Gentleman had given Was
could not do so without great trouble to the Right
more satisfactory, than; judging from the state of Hon. Baronet at the head- of the Government (Sir
Robert Peel), he should not have felt - - himself
the Treasury Bench when the Hon. Gentleman began
authorised in his present course were not
his speech, he could have possibly expected.—(A his object one of great acknowledged importance.
laugh.) He thought the statement of the Right
The inhabitants of Malta were an industriou u-
Honourable Baronet, as far as it regarded p
ration, and so were the inhabitants of the lonian
p lonian
factory. He was glad that., the Right Honour-
the motion of the Hon. Gentleman was entirely satis-
Islands ; and could- it be expected that they
would not do all in their power to obtain
able Baronet. had consented to present the pa- the regeneration they looked for ? He
pers, and he thought that the utmost discretion traced the treaties that had been made between
ought to be allowed to the Government in the eastern countries and the nations of Europe, from
selection of those papers which they might think
the time of Charlemagne to the days of Henry IV.
right to present. Ile thought that the utmost deli- of France, showing that the jurisdiction over
cacy ought to be exhibited not to offend the delinquents was exclusively vested in the Consuls of
feelings of independent nations.—(Hear.) The Hon.
the nation ta which the culprit belonged. Having
Member for Bridport had alluded to what he called obtained these stipulations from the Porte, ought they
the late event in Greece—he would not call it not to have submitted them to some competent autho-
a revolution, because it was the act of the rities of their own. He was astonished that nei-
Greek nation, claiming those institutions to which ther the Noble Lord (Lord-Palmerston) nor any other
they were by right entitled. Their conduct during person in office, had proposed a remedy for these evils.
that event, in his opinion, reflected the highest He begged to remind the House of the case of a
honour on the people of Greece.—(Cheers.) Per-
Dutchwoman who VasN killed by a Burmese in Malta.
sons had said that the Greeks had been so many
thatcase there :was no means of adjudication except
In
centuries under slavery and oppression, that they by sending the prisoners to England for trial, and he
were not yet fitted for a constitutional form of
government. The event had proved how undeserving was informed that all the expenses of the witnesses
were paid, and that they received two dollars a day as
they were of that opinion.—(Cheers.) He believed
compensation for their loss of time.—(Hear, hear.)
that all nations were fitted for constitutional go- another case an injury had been inflicted by an
vernment—(Cheers)—and if there were any nations Englishman upon a Turkish subject. Although ac-
not fitted for it, the only way to fit them for it was to conlingbteo thei
v letteren
u oft
ut hi7lec apt!
dtuleadti obn , tthhaet prisonertto m
give them constitutions—(Loud cheers)—for if they
were to wait until the enemies of, popular constitu- might Porte, the given
was completelyjg by
other waayn
tions pronounced that the people were fitted to He was sure the Government would say they directed
receive them, he feared they would have to wait along their attention to the subject immediately after they
time.—(Cheers and laughter.) Nothing could bemore came into office, and that they passed the Foreign
honourable to the Greek nation than the mode in
Jurisdiction Bill. He thought the Government
which they had brought about the establishment
mi ht establish a Court in Malta for the trialste of those
the their Constitution-s-(Cheers)—and the conduct of g
as one was established_ in Trieste. Theo
the King of Greece during this trying state of subject offences,had continually been brought before the
things had been infinitely honourable to him. Now, subject
at one time or another—they had
the repugnance which he had evinced to the ac now edged the evil, but took no means to remedy
k 1
granting of a popular Constitution, might have ran- i
dered it probable that he would have endeavoured it. He now hoped they would show a determination
to have escaped from the necessity of submitting to correct so great an abuse, and with this view he
to that Constitution which had been forced upon him ; begged to move an address to the Crown in accord-
ance with the words of his motion.—(Hear.)
but he had -throughout acted, with . the ,utmost,; HOPE id, ast he understood the Hon. Gen-
sincerity and good faith, in a manner which
t eman whohad ,just addressed
.the House, his com-
-Isa •
reflected. on ,him the highest: honour. He agreed
Plaint was, that the Bill which hadpassed last
with the Right, Honourable Baronet that there session
ought to be the utmost discretion exercised gave powers to the Government, but they had failed
England In any to bring them into sufficient operation. He had re-
by the Governments of Fratce and
advice which they might think it right to
fearedto documents—amongst others to an Order in
offer to the Greek nation at the preSent
Council, and -certainly Orders in Council were no-
ti-rrie.-:-(Loud, cheers.) Although he admitted that
thing unless they were made to apply to cases. But
they had a right •to advise, yet the utmost for- this d
he (Mr. Hope) maintained had been done.
bearance ought.to be,shown, in .the exercise of that Under
tii? Government were not justified in interfering, in
'
able' Member
,for Bridport ".' that the , attention of this matter.
those .Governments ought to- be directed to that Dr. BOWRING thought the authority which
article in, the. Greek Constitution which provided that might with propriety be exercised in one place,
the SoVereign. should he of the Greek religion. If might not be applicable in another, and, therefore,
this matter was involved in no ordinary difficulties.
the succession should fail in' the line of King Otho, the
Crown would descend to Leopold and his descendants, In some parts of the East the British Consuls exer-
who would he Catholics. This regulation would be in-
cised almost supreme influence over the Sovereigns,
compatible therefore with the rights of the succession. whilst in others no grievances could be redressed,
He trusted he should not be told that this incompati- He thought that the chief thing which was wanting
bility Might he got over by the adoption of the Greek in this matter wag to establish some code which
religion by the successor to • the' throne of Greece, would lay down: the great outlines of legislation,
who might be a Catholic. He trusted that neither and which would give the British Consul, certain
England, nor France; -nor the Greek people, would definite powers. , He hoped that such a consular code
expect that a person - brought up in one would be speedily formed, and a good means of work-
particolar profeasiOn should change it merely to step ing it adapted. '
into a foreign throne. 'He thought it would be in- -Sir R. PEEL agreed with the Hon. Member that
consistent with the treaties by which the succession there,vvere many difficulties surrounding the question
to the throne of Greece was regulated if that article of providing a remedy for those evils. One of the
of the Constitution should be ratified. But there was chief difficulties would he felt in carrying out the
another objection to this article, collateral and consti- decisions of those tribunals. He felt aware that
tutional ; for if all the branches of the House of Ba- the ,spirit of the present' age was against
vans should fail, and if that article should remain in the infliction of the punishment of death, except in
force, where would the Greeks have to go to find a eases when it was required as 'an example - against
successor to the throne ? They would be driven to great crimes, and such was also the feeling of the
the Royal Family of Prussia, one of the three par- present Government. He thought this measure
ties to the conference by which the independence might have a tendency to lessen in the eyes of foreign,
of Greece was established, and it was a fundamental nationsthat estimations of the-principle which above
condition of that alliance that neither one of the all others was most prized by England, that any
three Royal Families . should give a successor person accused of a crime should have every means of
to the throne of that country. It was defending himself. Her Majesty's Government had
their intention to make Greece independent of considered this matter deeply, and were sensible of
these three Powers; therefore it was another the evils which at present prevailed, and when such a
objection to this article of the Constitution code as would be likely to remedy them could be
that it would drive the Greeks to choose a successor established as one fit to be adopted by this great
from the Imperial family of one of the contracting country, both the Hon. Member for Pontefractand Hon,
parties to the treaty. lie trusted the Governments Members opposite might depend upon it no time would
of England and France would use the influence they be lost in its application.
were entitled to exercise to obtain a modification of Lord PALMERSTON said if a satisfactory' ar-
this article. He was delight6d to hear the tes- rangement had been made with respect to this matter,
timonisc that had beep borne by the Hon. Member it was not because it had not occupied the serious'
for Bridport to the conduct of that distinguished attention of her Majesty's late-Government. With re-
officer and diplomatist, Sir Edmund Lyons. Through- spect to what the Right Hon. baronet had said on the,
out all the transactions in which he had been en- subject of capital punishments, he (Lord Palmerston)
gaged in Greece, his conduct had been equally acknowledged that it was a subject which was i
honourable to himself and advantageous to the coun- volved in great difficulties, because it would be Minoan.;
try. They had appointed him under peculiar respon- impossible sometimes to' establish that form of trial.
l arf '
sibilities. Though he was distinguished as upon the spot, which would be aatisfactory, or which
an able officer, he had never before been engaged would convey an impression of fairness to al
in diplomacy, and he was glad that the result had because the criminal would be, in many cases,. dies,e
justified their judgment. He was glad that the Right prived of the advantages of hearing vivae evidence
Hon. Baronet had agreed to give the papers moved and of cross-examining the several witnesses.- He-
fei., He thought that the Hon. Member would exer- felt, bound to admit that the Government had
•
cise a sound discretion in leaving it to the Government taken the right course, and that they had
to make such a fair selection as they should consider adopted the most satisfact r and j
all the circumstances were ' 11 . e'
might be done withont detriment to the interests of mode of arrangement that waso knii*lls
the public service.as4ila .when
the subject had been brought keitire th H g
wnslclered, -lle was lad
Sir R. PEEL trusted that the House would not
he hoped that no delay
draw any inference from his silence on particular ,place, e obuse, and
points of the Greek Constitution. The religion of , would take
that circumspect (mune would be 14
which
the successor to the throne of that country was a point I should be suited to the magnitude of the subject; adopted,w icd
that had not escaped the attention of the Govern- ! that they would be able to make so e an
me more satisfactory
ment. It had occupied its full consideration, [ arrangements.—(Hear, hear.)
but he believed the Noble Lord would concur with Mr. MILNES said this '
him in considering it to be unwise to ' dto be considered matter which re-
with was a .
enter , quire
of on i scuss - di
upon ' the . that question at present. IHe did not think it seas at all necessary to have a
The Noble Lord took some credit to himself, and Consul at home. Austria had not one at home nor, ,
justly so, for the appointment of Sir Edmund Lyons. he b •
elieved, Russia.- Let them -follow the French
He hoped he would admit that the Government were system. The Right 11Q1-1. Baronet at the head of the
entitled to some credit for having retained in office Government, had satisfactorily explained the cause
the person appointed by their predecessors, and_re- Of -the delay of the Consular returns, and he-Would

not further detain the House, but sit down; thankOg
them for the kindness with which they heard 14°1'
After a few wordS from Sir R. PEEL the mono
was withdrawn.

DUELLING. _
Mr. TURNER then rose to move a,
that "
" That duelling is:immoral in its lendencyi
brings into contempt the laws
,of. the :country,,_.
contrary to Divine coinma'nd,' and ought to be
regretted
lished." The Hon. Gentleman said he regreLo
very much that after the declaration that had ;74
made in her Majesty's speech the Government hat
tal,en some step, or introduced some measure, t° Put
down this disgraceful practice. A Bill had
brought into that House in the '.year 1713, ro
the duel between Lord Hathilton and caer
resolution,
Mohun;•and in which both lost their lives, in sr
to suppress duelling, but that Bill did not pas,'-4tne,
cond reading. He thought the practice of d!,!-=
should be as rigidly discountenanced among civia;,
as in the army. • It was not so difficult to raellicbe,,
law understood, and if once understood
.it weird" of
followed. He had in vain searched in many
eminence, and in every statute, for any counter
to duelling—whenever it was practised it was In:;r
tioned in condemnation. The Hon. Menabe,r,/,
,
Salford said a few nights ago that duelling han.o73it
created by public opinion, and by public opiralyQ
would be suppressed. But why should the el
re..:,
allowed to remain so long unremediell? flee
sent Government brought in a Bill for its suPP7O-0,
brief in its nature and peremptory in its Prov? 0;
duelling would at once cease, and the Rig'''. at
Gentleman would have conferred a great ben
.00. t
the country. The Hon. Gentleman then quoted..
observations of Paley, who stated that duellincs;
murder, and should be dealt with as such. N°_,o3ot
had a right to take away the life of another, %103,
by public authority and for the public good.
shost
years ago Colonel Thomas, of the Guards, wasfood'-
in a duel, and in his pocket after his death was juel,
a document, written the very evening before the du
of which the following was an extract :—" Tidrai, does
rally and religiously opposed to duelling. 1-bistsse,
not prove that one is a gentleman, nor that he is.",,ost
nor does it afford satisfaction for an insult. Vißsi
any man has physical courage enough to /1,.."114,
duel, but few, alas, may have courage en.,,°4
to stem the tide of public scorn." Few there Mo.
indeed, said the Hon. Gentleman, that would at the'
to face public scorn. In a church-yard,
village of Chard, in Dorsetshire, an officer was b"-w_o...
who had fought for his country in eighteen en„
.61,411
ments and died in a duel. He was glad to sell ;".• •
_.
the country would be glad to learn, that there tf
society established for the discountenancing of daeis-
were ,
consisting of 349 members, 13 of whom
mirals, 67 field-officers, 36 captains in the aing:ia
lieutenants, 32 captains in the navy, 17 lieutenn-1,4
the navy, 30 noblemen, 14 Membera'of
and 141 civilians ; but lie regretted to. Kay therienber.
but 1 clergyman of the Church of England a rq te,
Viscount EBRINGTON-That is owing- ,
particular reason. • Dam
Mr. TURNER was glad to hear the Noble_
say so. He was well. aware that the autherist'es'y'l,
might be,broughtforward,would be of that:enng;
that might require more-üble advOiates than ibrio
but, in all he had said, he strictly adhered.to tbeo-0
that -liad-beeff---brought-before tbt
It had been said that it was not diflieai,
abate the. nuisance ; means had been adoiite:4o,
other countries, which, he believed, would soluo'est
an end to it. In his opinion, the PulLais-ovar
was far too great, and the consequence of' ,":htoat •
that juries often gave verdictS which they vi4l.al
have clone, and that many persons were acqulPZ_Vti,'
were guilty of duelling. ..a,e.thOught that PC, 0,
ought to: be so framed, that parties ought .to. coli.
nished not only for fighting 'a duel, but for
others to do so: He believed.that.that House isly,
not do its'duty until it enacted some law to de„to
with duelling. lie would read. them a letter APPje,,,
constituent of his, who did not „give hiin his br♦ve
but, if he knew him; he:believed. him to-bet e
an officer as any in her Majesty's nail. •''',4;,efiv
that he (Mr. Turner) ought to push the Gove'llynk
on,-if it was sincere •in its desire to abolish d4e
They ought to: issue a. public notice to theTintlaftSri
navy; that any, officer taking part in a duel-bel ftwa.
either as principal or second, should be retaell'olf
her Majesty's service, and that no pension
granted to'the widow of any officer losing P!'„bolisif,
a duel. Such an order would put an end to this-!,,n4iof.
practice. •He would -say nothing about the rinte:'
to Mrs. Fawcett; he decidedly agreed, with real,4'
it, with the Noble Lord the Member for Supcir
He thought they would be justified in .refali'nC,
pension, ,provided they brought in a law Prcu'oulab:.
the practice. He did hope that some means w„„a,
devised, not only with regard to that unfortuna;goi!
but that some mitigating circumstances wits,int°'
to-the conduct of Lieut. Munro would be taken'
the consideration of the Government. The
of the Hon. and Gallant Secretary of War leder
only to officers of the army ; but he had froia';aiiic
respondent he had before cited received a letter
why the Order should not be applied also to ttiliceri
and all the civil departments Of the QueedsWhalt
including the 'Privy Council.—(Hear, , ',tueir:
were those who sanctioned this practice witort
high example ? They were' not officers titrA" •
or navy ; there were names who sanctioned the - I,lr
flee not belonging to either. There were 0,..,1°Y.,10,
nisters of the Crown who had been parties tiitt
He had long thought that the public press oulri:t;,,
vocate the abolition of this practice. He Ir7ner.
hand a rather singular document respeola3,tari,,
public press and this question. It had been '7fgi4l,
the practice was fast drawing to a close hut-Peo
•
that it was not so. He must go back for hisP„-,
to the whole reign of George the Third:
reign there were 172 duels, in:which 69 .perk' tom'
killed, the whole number of persons punished /1,,'-'ttlyr,
who were executed. The state of the laW.7tir,
ally premium on the practice; its ser;iiirai
vented it from being put in force: They triba,,e
crime, but they never convicted for it.
stated that . duelling was lessening in oft,'
During the last twenty years there had bee i' 0 , ,‘
average more duels than during the
George lll.—(The Hon. Member here rel!'"4o4';'
extract from the Standard, 'of the year: 183 8'
subject of duelling,: amid loud cries '°' Jaffe
Move.") He then alluded' to what had beenmoat •-
Lord Fortescue, when he was Lord Liell;id)'!!`i:
Ireland.' He' issued an order, threatening a,b
missal any officer, who should give or - ace O lenge, or be directly or indirectly concerned '
It was impossible such a system could -00
This document showed that Earl Ferteneny'ert
termined to shut out from employmeabAa4
who should send or accept any ehallenge-,'l;
that some Act might be devised by wujenncl
might be given , both to Mrs. Faweett
Munro. 1-I,e would, as in a recent instance'
Act of Oblivion up to the date'of the late.utof,m,
would give Mrs. Fawcett a nsiomas an °AI tia'cire
not as one of right,' and he would then P 540! pe.,
which wonld. render -the punishment -for due eirt°
certain, and more expeditious. He Web°, Volld
that such an. Act might he devised, and, :•-iiiifot
ment which would bring such an 'Act Inionee-t,'
do themselves great honour, as wonld_the• •• oleo I
„„; co
passed such an. Act: •• The Han: Gentlegruodn
by moving the following resolution 019-4.;.:40
is immoral in its tendency,• that it .IM"v-to Pi;
tempt the IaWS of the country is: contrary ;•.
command, and ought to be abolished." ,
Mr. EWART said it appeared to biLnesi
they, wanted-upon this subject vvas pra,°cjitiporoa
tion. He thought no -person'iiCidd ,OYPTIO,
dispute the generallnaxims-of the #on• . posco
who had juAt. sat The *praotiee'ws2,oo'%;lo d;
versally condemned. As far as he could's'ilefe• ors
the observations of the Hon. Gentleraao.,i,tioluo
inflict a punishment, - probably trendPric :00:-
those who were' guilty of duelling, butotight,"*44o.
retain capital punishment for those who toe';',:tft.
capitalsou seonds. Ile (Mr. Ewalt) tvio
p plinishment, and least of 'all 91,1L4m,tiott•IV:
tamed as a punishment where it apLegr7,'
ties fought" under excitement. • Tiar-'6B
.00t",00.1
.guilty, even in the eye of law, who 'wenvoic Ile 4.
with premeditation, and with secoiAs•,,i not cu:-.4 ,tll
propased by the Hon, Gentleman r'014,7 or'-,•P7'
believed
to the public opinion upon the .Subjecii:,nirdeP 00; :
premeditation which constituted the
that the last instance of yvas.ro-.
cuted for the slaying of another in a dqf 1806•'
Colonel -- Campbell, . which ' occurred j:n,e'viseed.
thought that a punishment might be
an end to the practice of 'duelling withqe °:;;o%ilitt,t
course to uapital punishment.' The. 's
, a 0—
fluctuated' betiveen two' extrern
of an execution :by the law against- ob.
of the parties "escaping with total.-iVe 001-4
guilty of a preMeditated attempt to •
(Hear, hear.)- He thought that tlieT,hiit ai 71' or,
place between 'the two extremes, and prlllg.r. •
ment varying between an,inprisonolo
_or
otor
es, 'that ~.aderi
and transportation for 'fourteen •
the discretion of the judge, would b***lnel
press the _ practice. of duelling. ..A1
short of cay aye
thought that some punishment she ."`"/P'
uld pro I,of 0
Trent might be devised. He w° r far.,
Right Hon. Gentleman, or some otner
Government, should give theni that p..ac_r_tact
tion on the subject, withont which ft
yeai7l_ ft;ste m
-possible for theni to take any practical steps
tf
tion. .• • " .to:e00o11;
recoltildfq
Mr. CO\VPER said. he. •Pr°P.°s The tvi4 A':
'subject in a practical point of
seeitiej ofite;
Members who spoke on this. subject do to !t!Yoell •
consider what the Legislature could
the practice of duelling by
Now he could not help thinking that In` te.
to the deficiency of the,law. ;..The 11,r4,n, ignaVe •
of the absurd practice of duelling was_tcotichee,otitsialt.'4*
in barbarous times, when persons, fge 15 tido 591(
w
lief that a supernatural agency would
the rules of evidence, had recourse' to Lt OAirtrea

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