The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-12 00:00:00

. _ s. _ . __ _ ..___ _
' Money at four ' per cent. for the eonstructi i packets. They were called coffins, and properly so, be-
- -• of their • railways, whilst - ;the return was - only' causestbeasahnost invariably sent their crew to an un-
two , . and a half. How was the difference made up:? timely'graie. Look at the length of, time-that they
• • Undoubtedly by public taxation.--4 Hear, hear.) on took to-cross the Atlantic,sand-yet it' had been asserted
all these grounds he objected to this Bill, and he believed that it was impossible to effect a quicker passage than
- that if it were passed, the result would be a competition. they did until the establishment -of the Great Western
most unfair, most intolerable, most ruinous to the rail; .steamsship, which .proved : tile, contrary; London'
, ' • ways, most unjust to all claSses, and most productive of steamers, too, that were the property of private indivi-
,.: jobbing and mischief. He Could-nut consent to give any duals, would carry parties from London to Boulogne for
- vote except one of direct negative to the motion before far less-than' a-Government packet would •take' parties
the Rouse:—(Cheers.). from Dover to Calais. He thought the public right in
Mr. WALLACE said he had been one of the first to supposing that private enterprise was the best calculated
complain in that House of the monopoly of railways, and ' to excite activity, and to ensure the public interest. They
his objection to the system was now rather increased were equally right in supposing that whenever they put
than diminished. It had been stated that the public took great branches of trade into the hands of a Government,'
.uo interest in that question, but he held 'in his hand a . there was apt to be great apathy upon the subject, and a
petition which showed that that was not the case. ,It was considerable portion of political jobbing: Ile objected
the petition of a number of merchants, manufacturers, and' -to thiS system of centralisation, because it was incon-
tradesmen in Birmingham, complaining that a. most sistent,with the national character, and made men' act as
grinding monopoly had been. established by railway slityes instead of free men. But then it was said that
companies, and that they had interfered most materially the provisions of part of the Bill were for the
with the free sending of goods to different parts of the benefit of the ' poor of the country. That might
country. He believed there were good grounds for be so, but he must confess that he certainly was
making more extensive changes than those proposed in not prepared for any Government providing for the
the Bill. Having read that extract from the Railed, poor, in the manner laid down in the Bill.- The Bill,
Times he would read an extract from that most influens -instead of providing for the poor man at the expense of
tial paper, the Times itself. (The extract contained a the Government, did it at' the expense of the railway
complaint of the treatment which travellers by the third: 'company. Now, in his opinion, such a system was not
• class trains experienced at the hands Of the railway di. worth the legislation of that House. He could under-
rectors.) From the first time that these companies had stand,how.this clause was to work, although the distinc-
been established they had constantly ground the face of tions ,between rich and poor were to be drawn. For
• the poor. They had systematically contrived their ar- what had been the result ? Why, where the third-
rangernents to compel people to take the first or second class carriages had been made comfortable, gentlemen
class carriages instead of the third. . had gone into them. The fact was, they could not make
An Hose MEMBER then moved that the House be a distinction between the rich and poor man. :He should
counted, and the gallery was cleared, but . there were like to ask a question of the .Right Hon. Gentleman the
found on counting to be a sufficient number present to Secretary of State for the Home Department, and in
make a house. On our re-admission we found doing so, he hoped he should not be considered in-
Mr. WALLACE going through a statement of the .vidious—hut he wished to know who was Jack Cade
various rates of charges per mile upon the several rail- now?—(Laughter,) He thought that this clause- came
' . _ ways in Great Britain and Ireland, but it was impossible with a very bad grace from a Government who had.
to make. anything of his statement taken up at the close, charged them with being Jack Caries, because they
The working classes could travel at an expense of only wished to lighten the hours of labour in factories. ,If
one farthing a mile between the town which he repre- 'he'understood rightly, Jack Cade tried to regulate the
sented-arrd Glasgow, whereas between those great em- price of commodities. But here the Government
*poriunas of manufactures, Birmingham and Manchester, wanted the railroad ;proprietors to pay the expenses of
_the charge was 2d. per mile. He advocated an entire convenience to the- poor. When they
_On his side of
change of the system, which was at present constructed the House came forward to decrease the hours of la-
_ . in favour of the 'few and against the many. He shOuld, bour, they were met by the name of Jack Cade by a •
. stherefere,, give.. the Bill his best support. He was de- GoVernment who were endeavouring to interfere with
dried), in favour of competing lines ; and he could not private property in the unexampled manner, proposed
- - guess any reason why there should not be competing by this Bill. He thought there was one thing that ren-
lines in every direction. The railways from London to dered the present time the most unfit to introduce such a
--Liverpool paid 12 per cent. Why should there not be measure, and that was because the whole plan of. rail-
two lines; with 6 per cent. as a sufficient remuneration? ways was likely to be greatly improved. Let them look
Now, with regard to the conduct which the Post-office at the proposition for atmospheric railways. Why, if that
,- had experienced from the railway companies, he thought could be brought into operation, there was not asaingle
-. . there Must be a very strong impression op the public turnpike road upon which they might not have a railway.
. find.—(Hear, near.) He could give many instances The Bill seemed to him to prevent the improvement of:
• Wherein the necessity of some decided restraint upon existing railroads as much as it did new ones. He
them was proved to be absolutely necessary. Whilst trusted lie had not occupied too much of' the time of the,
. upon. this . subject, he might 'be permitted to say that House in bringing before it arguments, which he did not
... it.had been stated the Scottish people were willing not to pretend to say ought to have such weight with the
• have mail-trains on a Sunday, in order to avoid the de- House as to induce it to decide on 'such a subject- as
secretion of ahe Sabbath. This was all nonsense—all this. But he had presented conSiderations which had
'. • •absolutely untrue. A -few pet-ions, calling themselves sufficient weight in his own mind to induce ,him to S'ay,
the people of Scotland, said his countrymen were against that this House ought to pause on such a question be--
Sunday travelling ; but these were only such 'persona. as fore it adopted the measure irrevocably at the present
Sir Andrew Agnew, who knew nothing at all of the real period of. the session. He believed that the .'evils of,
feelings of the people- To revert, however, ;to the Bill monopoly with regard -to the railways, that were so ,
• - before the. House, he had only one objection to it, and much ,talked of, were exceedingly hypothetical.
that was that it did not go far enough.—(Hear, and They ' were looking rather at what the rail-
laughter.) No, he repeated, it did not by any means go roads' ' were four or five years ago, when it .
far enough. Still, so far as it did go, it was a most excel- was considered impossible that so many competing'
lent measure, calculated to do a great deal of good, and• lines could come into play. But it was the general:i
to reflect very high credit upon the •Government. He statement that the country was now becoming covered
trusted Ministers would not heed anything the directors with a "net-work" of railroad, which would always'
'might do, but go on firmly with their measure, , which secure a large amount of competition. This competi-
certainly should have his very best support. tion would be the real 'safeguard to the public, and they •
Mr. C. BULLER said .he could not help remarking ought not to deprive the public of that safeguard till '
upon the animadversions which had been indulged in by- they were perfectly sure, on the best information and.
the Right Hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board fullest discussion of the subject, that they had hit -upon.
of Trade, as to the motives of those gentlemen who 'some plan which would give-the public a better security'
opposed ds Bill, and the self-laudation with which be- than it now possessed,- both for good management, secue•
had 'spoken of the conduct of the Government. That rity, and cheapness. He perfectly. admitted that mile'
. . Right Hon. Gentleman really seemed to suppose 'that' ways required control and regulation—he perfectly ad-
. hthe opposition to this Bill had been got up from the mitted that. The law did control all private enterprises-
esest and most interested motives, and that every'dise • he had never heard that trade was to be exempted from
. , sentient from the views of the Government was influ- the operation of the law. Let them adopt regulatiens;.'
. . • eneed in his opinions and actions by those Parliamentary then, for these establishments, but let them apply those
agents whom he had taken upon himself to denounce in restrictions by legislation, and.not by the wholesale plan
such 'strong and unmeasured terms as the most active of transferring the whole of -the railways over to
and formidable opponents of the Bill. He (Mr. Buller) the will of the Government. Surely a subject
must confess he had heard so much of this self-laudation of this magnitude . required the meditation of one
that he was quite sick of it, because his experience told recess, and the discussion of at least one session.
him that when Government didarray great masses of the ' Let them have a Bill, making all the restrictions faeces-
People against them, it was sometimes done quite as sary, and to. such a*Bill he would give his support. But
?Such by their own folly, as at other times by their own let them not pass, in such a hurry, a measure like this,
honesty and public virtue. And he thought, when he which handed over the control of all the railways to the
recollected the course pursued during the long period Executive Government.
°1 'ten years by those now in power, but then in op- Mr. S. WORTLEY said he concurred in most of the
Position—when he recollected that for all that period observations that had fallen from the Hon. Member for
they had organised into a conspiracy against the public Liskeard. He had passed a glowing eulogium -on -prie
good all the private interests of the nation, it was, to say vete energy and enterprise, and none would more
th,e least of it, somewhat presumptuous in any Member readily concur in the justice of that eulogium than
. the present Government to indulge in the self-appro- himself. But the House was not called on to say
hatien and cant of which they had for the last few days that all private enterprise in this respect was to be sub-
,:arsci so much.—(Hear, hear.) For his own iaart, he mitted to the Government ; the measure only claimed a,
nidly acknowledged he did not participate in those reservation of the power to control these lines at a future
feelings,,,, of animosity,distrust, and suspicion, which were time. The Bill only.reserved to the Government a dis-
- f-17 niPted to be raised against the railway interest of cretionary power. He should vote for the Bill on the
n'tB eoUntry. (Hear, hear.) He must own that when- simple understanding that they were not about tb inter-
ever he had to travel by railway he travelled, in a most Pere. with enterprise. He would admit that they had
, . comfortable and commodious carriage, at three times the not - the elements of the question before them ; if he
- speed he formerly could, and generally for the same rate thought that the Bill implied one-tenth part of what had
et' fare as on the top of a coach. He could not then but been attributed to it, he would oppose it. But he be-
• think them a great good, and he thought it but fair in lien,'" those statements were totally founded on
any one not to look too harshly upon any imperfection's, misconstructions. Among - those assumptions were
which it was not to be wondered at should exist in so some very extraordinary ones. Honourable Gentlemen
new a system.—(Hear, hear.) The general argument seemed to suppose that the whole management of the
on Which he intended to found a few observations, was railroads was to be undertaken by the Government.
this—that they should_ not rashly interfere with the This was not the case; though it was not impossible that
preSerit system of railways, for by them the public had the Government might hereafter adopt a plan somewhat
. obtained the greatest increase of power and comfort that resembling that pursued in France, of purchasing the
Lad taken place in our time. And before they started their land for the line, and allowing private capital to carry
Plan of interference, he thought it but right that the out the work. -He did not pronounce any opinion on
Rouse and the public should' have the opporttmitY of this plan, but he thought it not unjust; for Parliament
contrasting that which they proposed, with that which at the present period of railway history should have
was now in existence.—(Hear, hear.) There was no some degree of control. He had a strong sense of the
doubt evils in the management-of the present system, benefits which the railway companies had conferred on
but he asked them to satisfy his mind that there were no the country. Considering. the vast amount of their
'vils'in the-plan which they proposed to substitute ?If business, there was but little cause for complaint ; very
the evils
of raj/ were so great as stated in "the present system great accommodation was afforded to the pub..-
tent. 'saYs, it behoved that House to give a very at- lie. But still it. could not be forgotten that they
ive consideration to the subject before they deter- •• had arrived at a point at which the greater part of all
nl what alteration should be made in it. He con- the necessary lines of communication were constructed,
~,,. (eased, however, that his great objection to the present; and twenty or thirty years hence they might have to
r.,°ceeding was, that they should be called upon to legis- interfere at great diftdvantage. He confessed that, at
,f.'be on such a subject in so short a period of first, he looked at the Bill .with some apprehension—
:4lle. Were they, on the first intimation of evil (Hear, hear)—and .he still objected to some of the
';:' adopt any plan or remedy which the Government, at clauses ; but that was no reason why the Bill
that
late period of the session, might choose to point should be prevented from going to the : second
‘ out to them ? W-ere they to be called on in the month reading. He had great doubts as to the policy,
fire uly, for the first time, to pass a Bill, founded on of the guarantee, as calculated to remove all motives for
had
reports, which he, for one, candidly confessed he the good management of a line. , The second clause was.
benches.)
never read ?--(lronical cheers from the Treasury also a point for consideration. But these difficulties
tfsenches.) He did not think it necessary to plead guilty must be met now or at some future time, or they must
Ft, any dereliction of duty for not having read these vo- sit down quietly with their hands folded, and submit to
v"mes, for the House had been most fully engaged ou all the consequences, however inconvenient to the public.
karious subjects of the highest importance, and there Mr.. GISBORNE commenced by saying that he never
ha been quite sufficient to fully occupy the mind of heard a speech which had so completely exhausted the
every Hon. Member. And it, moreover, had never en-- subject as the speech which he had just heard. He
tered into his mind to conceive that any Government, at must say he was struck at the singular contrast which
such a period of the session, would' call upon the existed •between the -Right Hon. Gentleman and the
ouse to legislate upon a subject at once so Hon. Gentleman opposite. The speech. of the Right
largethis
and so important.--(Hear, hear.) Well,' thin, Hon. Gentleman was, no , doubt, one of great .
"'t!s Bill, first of all, went to interfere with talent; but it was a slashing
,speech, full of attacks
Pi,rorate property in such a way as never was before heard upon every person, and imputing motives, so that one
6' in :hat House—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—in a might have thought that the speech came from the
Way, too, contrary to all our habits, all our institutions, Colonial-office, though the measure came from the Board.
and the spirit (SF British enterprise ; for this Bill directly of Trade. He did not think the Right Hon. Gentleman
Proposed to give to :be Government the power of taking was justified in saying that they endeavoured to
the
railways into their own hands. But the Right Hon. stifle all discussion, and not to allow the Right
„l'esident of the Board of Trade said they could not act Hon. Gent/4l anto introduce his Bill. The. present
;Pen the clause which gave this power. Then why wars . Government seemeeltuto him to be very desirous of
„"eh an inoperative clause left in the Bill ? Clauses one, caiting imputatrOluy ap,their opponents. 'So on the
coven, eight, and others he could turn. to, all gave or Bank Charter Bill; .Tni:Aight Hon. Gentleman at the
sh,"llarmed the power of purchase,and the Sixteenth clause head of the Government had said that he was a friend to
only says railways may be purchased, hut actually non-convertibility, because. be opposed that Bill. But it
elnlets in whom they are to be vested when they are pur- was always the ease with those who manufactured quack
asued•—(Hear, hear.) Then there was the 38th clause, medicines to be very angry if they were not taken. Now
t" exceedingly stringent one, by which Government was what was the history of this Bill ? When the Right
he et a control over all existing railways, as well as Hon. Gentleman went into Committee, he thought he
e hereafter to be made ; therefore the public were was pregnant with a great scheme ; and when he came
tii!lite right in the interpretation which they had put upon out he was no doubt diseoneerted at his little abortion.
sr clauses of the Bill. It would not alarm the public so Thu Right Hon. Gentleman produced his hypothetical
127041 if the only power the Government had was that of outline, but it was sadly cut down, and he was obliged
pl,-,l,l'ehassing. the railway. But the Government was em- to abandon it. The present Bill* was supported by the
s,t:vered by the 38th clause to make contracts with ex- late and the present President of the Board of Trade,
n' ' railways.' -but it was not a little curious that while one considered
/1,7 ita.'r- W. E. GLADSTONE' observed that that was the power of purchase as the main provision of the Bill,
se, .
the other thought that the revision clause was the im-
-4,P!. C.'I3I3ILER said that if that was not so, he did portant part of it,. Now, be would try the Bill by a not
"-"0w the meaning of the clause. If any railways unfair test. He would suppose a Vresident of the Board of
--,pa
eny wanted to increase its powers, they had not to Trade.living some years ago possessing, if that were
c,.,i11e before Parliament, but before the Lords of the possible the united wisdom of both, and that now7ntaittee, and so, in fact, to come before the Board of sions of that Bill were to come into operation. how
teeade. It was on this ground that he objected to this would it apply to the-London and Birmingham Railway?
* Zs
s. asure, It seemed to him extraordinary that at the With regard to the 10-per cent. clause.'the Loadon and
ent day parties should get up in the House of Com;
_Birmingham Railway. Company would, be too wary to
whEls,_°,f Great Britain and defend private enterprise, divide a clear annual profit, amonnting to more than
it en had' made this country the greatest in the world. 9L 19s. In point of fact, the 10 per cent. clause was in
to a:PPeared to be the wish of the Board of Trade operation at this moment. They thought it enough to
vaselnterfere as much as possible with the pd. have a dividend of 10 per cents, end they refused the less
di eaterprises• of her Majesty's . subjects. He palat4ble traffic, such as coals and nere„ls, They
14_, not know where this interference was to end ; would not-dirty their hands. with coal.'— (Lauhter and,
tiliu_uably by and bye they would have an assistant come cheers.) They even laid 4 prohibition on the coals which
vi 'Siegler to cut their meat for them, because the Go-. . were-brought orfthe Midland Oniinaps. leilavay,, which
tertnlnent could do everything better than any one else. could be brought,us he was-prepared to prove, et three
1,
leytonnot-cleat had been made without the assistance of the Go- railways under the provision . clause. Then it was said
thellmeni: The roads in France had been made under that theywould purchase railways.- 'Did any man in- the
1 'BuPeriet *mince of the Government,'and fie would kingdom; who was left at large, believe in the practica-
eave e.
n i It to those who bad travelled in France andsin -bilityrof buying up those railways? There were 40 miles
Th!',Tl,l to' say which were the best.—(Hear, hear.) of railroad at Exeter, and 60 at York, and- the manage-
eesi"ghting of the towns'id England had been accona-,lirfent of these was to be in- a- board' here. - The Right
ask, "1 by private individuals, and where, be would. I on. Gentleman, the.President,of the Board of Trade,
f4is where were there towns better lighted -than in this -I called'something a farce. -He would time
.44 equally ex,
',nry'? Even -. . ..
• of th, the buoying and lighting of the coasts pfessivoword, and say that
-'the right of purchase was all
the p..country wee mat left to the Government, but' to gaminon,—(Laughter.) Everybody knew. it could not be
th" unity Hoase, and where was a coast better lighted acted upoii., gvidence was given , before the Committee
Love/ than of Great Britain? The great Bedford as to the extent of the poweti of •rerision which the &a-
llow e that was the work of private indiridaals, . verninent should possess, and no parr , of the
- Wh:were all the colonies of this country planted ? hypothetical outline was so' completely smashed' as this
keel'. by private companies, and not by the Govern- - power of revision, It was shoWn that the Government
a,siv_ Such being the case, why should they put them- could net act on it. The. Right Hon. Gentleman had
throw into the leading-strin,:3 of the Government, and misrepresented km (Mr. Gleborne) when he said that
.a,mauw_saaide those great principles by Web the great- 1 he was giving the Government a more extensive power,
gratiourtills country had been accomplished ? sts to em - What he said was, and ho still retained the same opi-
eseee,s,s, e did not think that the Noble Lord's plait hii.4.;“ioti, fiat there was no medium .between 'allowing the
vidttaTt! sO - much as the perseverance of private indi- - Lostrest enti-Spetitign lind the Government taking all rail*
the "- It wise absurd to attempt to put railroads under wasY into 4..'-ielr knoicl4. Un4o the resent system they
, ialete-6:rei.iiance .of postmasters-general. Look at the had.the.power of triii!:ng impromaems, not. only fif
ilk. .eney i that had been shown by such officers—an mechanical kind, but lin the way of econoreiaal
co
h "I._ cleney that he would venture to say would never managements, which would not. take place i.
a*" taken 1.
!iduals. Thitace u.nder the control of private indi- railways were in the 444 Of thagovernment. He was
agatn, there was the Admiralty, a por- even afaid that, under the Government,
,ffiff ivoffit4 pi
ttFa°ll4o_f the Government, he would venture to say, that behind-other countries with ' respect to their manage:
lArveuTn_
,s more _ backward than any other in adopting im- meat, fie regretted to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman
asee,cnt • Would they have got rid of the say tjaat:eenepetitiosa yesss.,tp, pretection to the public in
to P.". tee, against steamers. if they had been heft the case of railways, fie thong4t4o4ightifor4 en- Lords of the ..4.dmireity,/
...pook. at the Halifax 1 tleman should have abstained freei eqsressing emit ettt
i

,0d •
• ji
he could
,not I _coneaive a I ACTrONS FOR GAMTl'Wbi''''‘'''....."
---
• ~_.____r_____ ---14 a f 644.
r for Lyme en an indieidual
or -"Ptoiiiling r SCO,NTINETAIWE s!
BILL:; '-- -- ••- s '" - •L
more s liberal or . equitable.
GovernMent - -elatited• the I -On the order h.
for it.—(Hear; hear.) The .
--"-e-"" enc ; ;sv a; tit -all adtalitd, j
'•• • under the Bilk ea ~ . ,
n , von Id- not then ! ft) A.• , ' of the cla.yfOr bringingiiip the:r4' - '
~. e caons for Ganiieg Discontinuance 13.11 b •on
power of revasion n
aly coasa der tliegee -; as, .CHIZISTIT h• - • iei partecl,
enter into the details, ::and wail-
Tcine Hon. atleeaher. for i city of a " ....,
•II `old take that; .oppOrtht-
neral,principles of the measure.. ,
~
hed spekea ai. gOcal ; Le 'N
bl n"-el'ing
an atta6ic
-whial7 had been. made_ :by:
lila a. late..p.eriod-'l‘L:rd' 'll° had' merle Lrlti:e Member ' beinia taa-en -b
y suiprise. 1 wire was not present to deid• hi .1
and whiCh .thi ' Rill
deal about railway cempan
ce ruse f. The, .Nable
They said the Bill was not brought in u _
an attack of the strongest chniecte
Newcastle., and other. IlOns Me In hilicrin,ll.
ch Q n 'ttee which' I • ' ' le name- of Russelloonh of
by surprise. But the rePert, 0- t.-° 'mu It
stated-,
~. Iv kom was' it,solieitor • and - the otherthe plaintiff in the
of the session, and that railway proprietors- mere taken against -tiloaindividiils of ti r
favourabletime for lecesiation was inthrided t-i di-ce' • 8 i
t could be a.
appeared in the April of this year, distinctly. tnat actions which, were now pending',
the.presen
:After imoting the-different reports of filo 'Railway-Corn:•• from • Mr. RllSSell • ••
, , the solicitor,. whose character the
the Right Ho
.Noble T. . -
" to .a late period,
ex.
from April down t .n.
ome ex-1
Baronet proceeded to say that he shou, .ld deprecate - tracts 'fe ' •
..
..,, om. it to the 'House, •He would net read :the '
strongly the -frequent exercise of this power 'on the pert whole. of it, because some parts of it were the reverse of
•
es` -0 -p -
of the Legislatere, and are era to. the public ante.. es`, as orn limentary to tire. character of the- Noble :Lordase
could alone justifyits application, The Bill took pre- (Cries of " Read 1 read!" ) - The Noble
cautions on the subject of oonveyqnce, TT ..-.9 would riot: liberty there, to say whet he pleased of the character. of
take to himself any especial credit for guarding the inte. persons eat of that House, and he had generously availed
rests. of the htimbler elaeses, but he thought Parliae, himself of that privilege last evening.---(liettr.), But if !I
merit should have regard •to providing a cheap they said qnythilig. ageing the character 'of • the
by
and " safe mode of conveyance for them. flofeigii' Lofd, that meld not be reed in that House even by.the:
countries had . given the aubjeci Anna; . attention- Noble Isord'e_ptirtrdssrion without offending against the
He held. in his, hand a report of the French Chember, relee:of.that House.' lie would now read to the- House
which showed that the logislators of France did not think the extracts from the letter of Mr.
Russell. They were
it out.of their province to make peevietion .for the corn- es follow i-en-I conld: never have the assurance to meet
forts of the •humbler classes. The Committee of the either Mr. Gibson or. yourself, had there been one syllable
French Chamber said they had more than once pre,. of truth in Lord George Bentinek's statements. I will.
...
tested against the use of open carriages. it appeered not attempt to defend my brother's ' conduct. , in,
to them that the interests of humanity enjoined them an affair which occurred
some years `sidee." j lie,
not.to•condeinn the humbler classes of selects, to incen-, bed , already stated that • in his evidence be-
venienee and danger. - . The mode of transit in open car- 'fore . the . Committee, " I will . - apt
riages not only- exposed the passengers to the air; but- :defend mr brother'S conduct in an
affairnot whichttemoccnrred tq .
aleci to the risk of fire from the particles thrown out by some years since; and' through which I might have been
the engine.. The writer insisted that the third-class ruined, if I hadnot had the means of entirely exeulpat-
trains Should always be established at fares !not exceed.. 'in myself to the satisfaction of every perky% I Should
ing: three farthings - per' mile, and considered that the grieve Ityou Or Mr. Gibson, having heard my state-
secencl.elass-.carriages should have windoWs, and the remits, should-think that any degradation; would attach
third-class curtains.—(fleare hear.). 'Now, in aanction-. to you inconsequence, ' I said that if you have the ovi-
ing railroads' Istewhieh air 'other_
!modes of eonvey?tlep dence printedevery one will be able to judge if lam de-
were destroyed, lie thought it..was .aoting but right serving of the character which 'this Lord last ,night
that the Legislature should provide " securities " for the gave 'of me."—(Hear, hear, • end cheers.) , :He
comfort and convenience of the humbler classes.—(Hear, hoped they would have the evidence printed, and printed
heer.). The lion. Gentleman opposite took a very high wholly, without expunging of any portion of it.—(Hear,
tone on the : subject of railways. He seemed to think hear.) He entertained no feelieg of degradation fi•on
that they had an unlimited right to deal with the having had interviews with Mr. Russell.. Mr, Russell
public -as 'they„ thought fit, ~ Be it so es to exist- had' ome to-aek him to present a petition, and to afford
•
•railways ; be it that the London and Birmingham him Information: Even if he had hoen deserving of the
ing
.company had• a right. to. say, in rather aristocratic lan- character which the Noble Lord had given -him, even if
gunge, "We will not soil our carriages by the convey= hpon a cemmon hell-keeper, and had said that In
mice of coal." Still the . neestion was whether, when that -character he had suffered a grievanee which the
shoutheY
ld not ta were gOke ing to give, powers to new
rati companies, they . House of Commons could remedy, and had asked him to
some,moderate and onal precautions present a petition, he should have felt it his duty to do
against their abuse.—(Hear, hear.) If he thought that
.ace--„,(Qheers,) , But he Would not have associated with
the effect of this Bill would be to destroy that private a hell-keeper further—( )-- d not have
Cheers would
enterprise in which railways had originated, he would betted with hinise-(Cheers.) He would not have eoriana's;
not believe that the precautions which his Right
not consent to its being passed into claw. put he did 'slotted •him to bet for hills.—(Reiterated cheering.) •He
Hon, would not belong to 4 club of which lea was a member.
Friend proposed to establish wWild 1)414 the Pfrect either --e(Oontioned cheering.) He had declared his intention
of preventing
or impeding the appiicatiod 'off private ' of, offering every factious opposition to the Bill, and.
- Since the first report was published, publicly he had afterwards said 'he woidcl withdraw it ; but the
capital.
announcing- that some precautions ought to be taken, reasons he hqd troll foi, so doing . had 'hot been
'he had had - the satisfaction of seeing thet thirty ProPPYIY .-
stfltetl. e ' protested against this Bill; he
new railroad schemes had been iiroposecf,cntatilPg CO protested agehlet the manner in which it had been
expenditure of pot loss than 24A.0,004--0-lear, heat.) carried thrAllith that House ; he protested against the
He hoped that railways would be conducted by competis refusal of the Muse to hear the plaintiff by counsel
tien, and the application of private eepita--(llear, against this Bill, in the rejection of which he had
hear.) He hoped most. sincerely that the necessity the clearest, and th 4 -most direct personal interest.
would never arise for the Government undertaking the If ever 11.104 n was entitled.to be heard by counsel at the
management of railways. Whetivr a ease might. Prise bar of the' }reuse, it was this muoh-wronged indivi
arise in which it would be desirable for the governitent dual, and it• was mast unjuat that such a boon should
either to construct some short line' of railway, in order be tensed hire. ' lie complained of the manner in whioh
to ascertain the expense, or tq establish the -exeninie Of the evidence had been taken, and of• the manner in
a . mode, of management,' lie pronounced no opinioie which that evidence had been used, When that ' evi-
But he should deprecate the transfer of patronage. 'lle donee should be formally communieated to the House, a
trusted the• Government would never be converted into question, he thoUght might arise, as to whether that evi-
the directors of a railway.—(lieer, hear.) At the.same donee would not give a proper occasion for a motion Ma-
th:nes he hoped they would hare that ctogrPO or control tive to interference with the privileges of the House. The
which was necessary, both as a security for ' the'ssßill'aeriously affected the interests of individuals.' A
public, and to prevent abuse.--e(Hear; hear,)- 1040 petition had been presented, praying that counsel might
trusted that Parliament would give them , that be heard- againit the Bill, but the prayer of the petition
dormant power of a purchase—that dormant power of had been, refused i -and when the petition was presented,_
interference which would operate as a tacit and effec- the Committee in another 'place, who suspended its sit.
tual check upon extravagant - demands by . these coin- tings for some time, had summoned the solicitor before
wiles. Upon these grounds, retaining his, respect for them. A searching investigation was instituted. When
these Companies, and knowing that they-were underthe the day arrived for hearing counsel the evidence was dis-.
deepest obligations to them—deprecating any measure senainated,: and the,character of the petition was made a
which would prevent a similar application of capital, yet reason for refusing to hear it by counsel -at the bar of
thinking it right that they should make security for the ' the House. The Chairman of the Committee, whoever
public against exaction and against abuse, he should he might be—even the Duke of Richmond conspired
give his cordial support to the measure proposed by the with Government for promoting the Bill, and abused his
Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Cheers.)
Mr. WARD .rose amidst cries of "Divide, divide."
position as Chairman of the Committee in 'another place,
• The and was guilty of an infringement 'in communicating
lion. Member said he thought the :case stated by that evidence. He would leave the public; to judge of
the Right Hon .Baronet was one to . which no future the circumstances in which the evidence was used ; and
railway company could possibly objects—(Hear, from he . thought the opinion of the public had not been
tie Ministerial benches.) If nothing were intended but favourable to the promoters of this Bill.,(Hear.)
a notice to railway companies, that after a certain num- • The CHANCELLOR .of the EXCHEQUER ex
her of years their tolls were to be subject to a revision, plaieed what he said on the previous night. His reason
there was no company about to apply to Parliament for opposing the hearing •of the petition by counsel at
'which could object to such a proceeding,__(Hear, hear.) the bar of the House was, because, after diligent search
Undoubtedly, with respeet:to the conveyance of letters, of precedents, he could not
find one in. which an indivi-
the Government had .a right to require from the railway dual was permitted to appear at the bar of that House
Companies WhateVer was necessary. The same remarks himself, or by Counsel, when legislative interference was
might be made in referefice to the conveyance of troops merely of a suspenslonary eharacter.--(Hear, hear.)
at the- lowest possible cliaree.—(ilear, hear.) The ater. M. GIIISON considered that he had not been
clause with regard to third-alclass carriages was' abso- fairly reported in the Morning Papers as to what he
lutely unexceptionable. His objection to it in the first 'said on the previous night, and he therefore wished to •
instance arose from the understanding that third-class , make a further statement. The Hon. Member
carriages were required to accompany every train. What spoke with considerable excitement of manner, saiwho
, d—
he complained of with regard to this Bill was, that it If the Noble Lord (Lord G. Bentinck) or any one else,
was not what it professed to be, and that -powers were makes a. aharge against me that I associated with per-
taken.by it which had excited thedeepest•alarm amongst sons of improper
_character, or with persons guilty, of
all persons connected with railways. If the Govern- any crime, I assert in this House that that charge is
meat did not mean to use their formidable powers, why false and scandalous, and I defy the Noble Lord or any,
did they propose to take them ? - 'The whole Bill, from - 'body else to prove it, or to show that there is any founds-
the 7th clause to the 24th, was a complete system of lion whatever for it. ; The solicitor my Honourable-
'Government interposition. He objected post stron Friend alluded to called 'at his (Mr. M. Gibson's)
to' he powers conferred. He believed that the measure house—he came to him in - a public capacity,
had been brought forward without sufficient considers- lie had felt that he was entitled to listen to his comnau-
don ; but if a:notice of future regulations was all that • nication and make what use of, it he pleased. That he
was required by the Government, and if it werean that- had (lane, and that he would do . again ; and he pro-
, light that the Bill was to be received, he would put it to tested, in the face of that House, against being charged,
those gentlemen who had hitherto concurred -with him, 'either directly or indirectly, with having associated, in
'whether it was 'advisable to go to a diviSion. - the popular sense, with persons of improper character,
Mr. ,G,LADSTONE entirely concurred in the sug= and who had committed crimes.
,gestions of his lion. Friend. The Bill was based upon Lord- PALMERSTON said, that having had an op-
`the report presented to the House some time ago.' . ,portunity of forming an opinion on the Committee, he
Mr. HAWES (WIN, spoke amidst loud cries of " Di- felt justifiediu saying that he thought his' Hon. Friends
vide,") said that the effect of the Bill would be to place were perfectly justified in the course they' had pursued
all railways under the direct control of the Government. with regard teMr. Thomas Ruisell. It appeared to him
On the line of communication with Ireland that certainly that a Member of Parliament had, in the performance of
'would be the result. If the clauses which garP,the Go- his duty, a perfect right -to receive information
vernment such control were thrown out he would not • which might .be tendered to him whilst pursuing an
ject to the Bill. He could not sit down without defend- investigation, and he thought, in fact, that he would not
ing,the chaincter of the professional gentlemen who had be justified in refusing it. With regard to the point
opposed the Bill.. He sat -down amidst loud cries of raised by his Hon. and Learned Friend, he could entirely
"Divide',
• bear out the statement of the Right lion. Gentleman,
Mr. MUNTZ said, that in opposing this Bill. he had that the decision of the House yesterday turned, not on
no personal motive, except that he derived great any judgment formed respecting the character of Mr.
advantage and convenience from the railways, 'and Russell, but on the ground that his case was. not parallel
he wished to • see them extended all over the king- to that of Mr. Wright,- and that he was not a bona fide
dom. There was" another . consideration, - that al. prosecutor. .Bu as far as any. reflections on character
though the' Right Honourable Baronet and his Were concerned, he must submit to the House that yes-
colleagues might look at this ".as a dormant power,”: to
en evening tans not the first time that doubts had
who was •to guarantee that some future Government been thrown•out on that subject.—(Hear, hear.)
would not look at it in a different light? That which Lord HOWICK said .he objected to the Bill on the
was a "dormant power" might, in future times,' and in ground that it not only protected persons from actions
other hands, become a very active and a very danger- -for past' betting, ' but that it protected persons who
ous one. •He was most anxious that the railway system should subsequently bet on horse-racing. They were
should be fully developed throughout the country, because going to legalise-betting, or. at least to exempt from all
he considered it fraught with innumerable blessings. penal ' consequences those who took part in it. And -
For this reason he should give his decided Opposition to looking at the matter in the light thrown upon it by the
the _Bill before -the House.—
(Hear, hear.) recent trial, he thought such a step must be deeply in
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said it was a rare thing indeed jurious to the country. He proposed to amend the Bill
for him-to he seen giving .a"vote in- favour of a measure in the following manners—ln e reame 'he prop
brought in by the Government. But looking on this to omit the words, " And thatth nop otherbl proceedingsosed or
Bill as especially formed to benefit and assist the poor a like nature should be commenced or proceeded with."
working-man, he felt it his dray to rise in the House He also proposed to omit the :first clause, in reference
and thus briefly to thank the Government for bringing to • the period from . which the • Act was to
itin.-'(Cheers.) He had the greatest pleasure in sup- operate, .and that it should continue in force till
porting the Bill with his vote.—(llear, hear.) the ,end of the next session of Parliament.
For the
The House then divided, when there appeared— He called upon the House to go no further than to give
Against it
Majority
, 98 . the Ist of June last. He was no enemy to horse-racing,
—BB
,and it was not his wish to interfere with the fair sports
On our admission into the gallery we found of the turf. But he would give no protection to those
Mr. WALLACE on his legs, asking the Hon. Mem- who made, the turf a system of fraud. He would con-
ber for Reading (Mr. Russell) whether he had not a elude by Moving the amendment of which he had given
direct and separate interest in the Bill ?—(Cries of "He • notice. 'is not in the liOuse.") Yes, e is.—(Cries of " Show Lord.PALMERSTON said that he could not go at
hini up.") So I w(Cries oh" Order, order.") the railroad pace of. his Noble 'Friend. But he hoped
Sir JAMES GRAHAM—There are strangers in the that by the next session of Parliament Government
House.
would be - prepared with a satisfactory measure.
The SPEAKER —Strangers must withdrew.. - . It was the opinion of the Committee that it was incon-
The gallery was then cleared.
The gallery was soon afterwards re-opened. We un- with the private pursuits, private business, or private
derstood that while the doors were cloaed, ' ' pleasures of individuals. Butwhat was his Noble Friend's-
Mr. WALLACE made an objection to the vote of i amount to which betting was to be allowed to go? He'
Mr, C. Russell.. being taken, on the ground that he, was .; was for a restriction upon heavy betting on the turf, what
interested in the subject.
..then would be his minimum ? Or were they to have a
He ,was. supported by Mr. COLLETT, and a short ! graduated
discussion ensued, but the Hon. Member for Greenock , a sliding scale of. turf betting ?—(Hear, and
a lau.ut look to at his .
subsequently:withdrew the motion he had made. ' trinegh wo) uldß -lead- to inwhtic prace.Noble It' wouldriend oo
ond in
. Mr. HAWES then asked if it was the intention of the , this—that what ' was done !in seeret should be
Government to' modify the Bill at all, or to g o into Com- winked at, and that the thundera of the law should be
mitten with it as it was?
Mr. GLADSTONE said he
! hurled only at those who betted openly.—(Hear, hear.)
was not only ready but ' And, to add to thia piece of hyocrisy, they would have
desirous to consider any Modification that would bring ' other' evils and inConveniences; for to work the principle
the Bill into co
the head of her conformity with the speech of the Right
Hon. Baronet to ital legitimate end, .they must • enact a sort of sump-
at Majesty's Government, , tuary law, forbidding any one to ' give more than a
Committee.
and with the third report of the
-ommittee. ' certain pike for a horse, or anything he might desire
Sir Ifi.PEa gad, that in his speech he was rather
'purchase—(Hear, beer.) For '
referring to. the report than to the technicatterms o to' these and otherf the - reasons,: he would not, at this late hour, recapitulate. no
Gill. _Be thought-the power to purchase ought to be re- . must °lapse, the amendment of his Noble Friend, and
served to the Government and Parliament conjointly, stand. by the Bill as now arranged. That Bill was In-
not to be exercised indiscriminate] y;but as 4 check upon tended for 'the protection of honest recn-,..,(Hear, hear)
. .
ordered to be co
the - railways. .
against unjust and eitortionate' attempts, and he was
oond time
After some further diaousslon, the Bill was read a se-
sure. the House would ace the justice and the wisdom of
~ and mmitted on Saturday •, passing iti in its present.shape,—(Divide.")
rteNt, • Mr, ARGTHERTON moved the adjournment of the
The Report on the Law Courts (Ireland) compose- debate, -
don Billcwas brought up and received, ! . - Sir J.- -GRAHAM, as at present 'advised, thought
-• TURNPIKE TRUSTS (SOIITH WALES). the advice tendered by the' Committee with respect to
"!` 'On' the'cirder of the day for the second reading'of this .horse-racing, was good. He would, therefore, support:
Bill,
. .
Mr. MORRIS was understood to o the Bill.
•ppose the measure. Lord HOWICK would oat divide on the amendments,
Sir J. GRAHAM said he intended only that-the Bill and they Were withdrawn. The Noble Lord then moved
should be read a second. time that night, and he pro, ahas the first clause should be omitted. By such a BA
posed going into Committee upon t R Monday .as 'this, they threw by stealth protection overgembaieg
seght. He- woold lie gift Le titheul Hon. Gen- ,of the worst description, while they visited whoa: gatub.
'Homan and other ininibere connected with South Wales, 'hug with the 'utmost severity, ties far one, protested
on the Bill. •
against it. He elaald not divideethe House up , it, but
The Bill was then read a second' time, and Ordered to he should.eall upon' the House-either to adopt oron negative
be committed on Monday se'nnight,
nia,proposition. , • , . . .
- .SITDIRTIiy IatSFI/ANCIUSEMENT. BILL. Lord PALMERSTON explained.
T report
The rert-on the Sudbury Disfranchisement Bill was The -amendment was negatived without as division,
brought up and received. - • ~ . , . ,
the report was received, antith Bill ordered to be read
•' • ' POOR-LAW AMENDMENT BILL a third time tosnaorrew (this day). • - The Committee on the Poor-law Amendment Bill wrs ;air TitiONEAS FREMANTLE moved for a. Select
Postponed till a Quarter pql Viltlr o'clock this-day. Conimittee, to prepare estimates of the:charge ,of the
1 ... ‘ Liew Quarter ( RELAND) BILL . disembodied ' militia of Great 'Britain and ir?,414-1 for.
The Law Courts (Ireland)! Bill passed through Cora- the year ending' the, 31st dear of -kiarch, '1845: -Sir
mitten. - . •-• Thomas .Frieiwilo,:V7isoonneEfowisek, Viscount Palmer-
' The 'House then resumed, the report was rpci-tive4, eton, Sir Johniciobliduse, Mr. Macaulay, Mr. Ellick, Snit
Ancl t 9 Dill tTs ordered tote react a Ihirdirpe to-mot- tdviaid'liiiatahball, Mr..t.lor. Langtelicaptain! B j
hit aa ' . ' ' '• ''
' - '•
- ' '. '• ' .' ', -•- ddro, -COlonel, Peel, Mr: raangle; .c„olc; el W-6ott h. 4.
,s 3
''' ." BU ;TEris AND C ['ELSE,' BILL._ ...: . - : arrantieri. tltitenS alkali' cblilol4 sof *trig ' , '..l.:AtAi*-1 'ta, -
The Butter and Cheese Bill then passed' through Corn- •' " ' ' ''' " - ''' ' TYPP:S:PPILANq,
,4.
C, ...
;IDPfLis limgcl Ow *W., .
mitt*
jrl 11 OfS47 4 4"' ”.--

µ►g as a Select Com-

, ,--,
,_ ~,,--, -,.
LAW INTELLIG i .4% ' . I'. l''' •N
AZ il;;;; :: ;••, , ' . : ' „.••
' . . < •
CO III? TOF 8.-INA I? UP !.i j 61- it.
(Ben,r3-Contnissioner Sir C. I-
'''47) • ; ' i cs;:
..
ExTitste;ssx.stlY', FRAUIM.---WILT ‘/,,Astz4. Y' - ----"%. ,
.-:':-„,, .--1.7 i
The Isfmkrupt-carried on business as ,1o)? ' 1-' -a
''itt
Inn, and has scen frequently before the c
_e_skit'a -1
appeared to pass his flied adjourned eta vialslh, antr"
court was crowded to excess with the suffering victims of his
fr/tudulentllreac,lr•s of trust. c1i.,..4,
The Right Honourable Lb% Lushingten, and the Rev.
Archdeacon.. lirs mer: (of Ilath), were present on the bench,
they having in their capacity of co-trusteess with the bank-
rupt, in re Wilkinson, been defrauded of no less a sum than
•. .29,0001.
. 11. Ir. Clarkson 'attended on the part of Archdeacon Brs-mer
and Dr. Lushington; Mr. Humphrey for the assignees; and
Mr. Sturgeon tOr the bankrupt.
The, debts and liabilities. amount, in round numbers, to
about 140.0091., principally through breaches of trust, and
shine of them appeared to have extended as far back as 1824,
but the bankrupt stall continues to state that he has large
available securities and bills of costs in various settled and
unsettled's:ides, but which the derangement produced by his
difficulties had hitherto prevented his making out, a • )1
therefore, not enablingt he official assignee to value them
f . Mr. Cissizesok said that he had the honour of appea tj
nor the Venerable Archdeacon of Bath, the Rev. Dr. Bry • s
nd els.° Ilir Dr. lushintston, whoswere now creditors for el ..
sung of 2.9,000/., and who. had to complain that this amount,
rather the greater portion of it, was unsecured, notwithstand-
ing the repeated assurances of the bankrupt, by rett and.
()Steil-Wise, that it was • not upon -good security; and the in-
terest, therefore, Laving
,been paid up to the period of tLe
fiat, they were lulled into a false security. Most of the sums
composing this 29,0001, bad originally been out upon good
security, which, however, being subsequently released, the
bankrupt had applied to his own purposes, instead of lending
it upon mortgage, as he had induced his co-trustees to be-
lieve that-he had done. At the time of the death of the tes-
tator (Mr.' Wilkinson) the bankrupt was indebted to that
gentleman in the 'Shin of 9,000/., and for which lie deposited
at the testator's bankers (Messrs. Chitties) in a tin box, the
deeds of two estates at Kensington and Clapton as security
for that amount. This tin box, however, he had shortly
after obtained from the bankers by fraudulent represanta-
lions, and under the promise of its being returned. This was
never done, and the result showed that these estates were
sold by the bankrupt, and that the trustees had no other
security than the 'bankrupt's bond. The Learned Counsel
here entered into a Jeugthened detail upon the various items
of this amount, and the mode in Which the bankrupt hadi
.dealt-with them, and upon the part especially of Mr. Bel-
lenden Tier (a most respectable conveyancer), whose name
had been stated by the bankrupt to his co-trustees as having
borrowed 3,000/., whereas, in point of fact, he now held ins
his hand the affidavit of Mr. Tier, denying in the most pod-,
Live terms that he had ever borrowed any such suns.
Sir
.0. F. WiLls.ssis—Does the bankrupt's balancesslieet
give any intimation of these dreadful facts? The official
assignee (Mr. Turqtiand)—None, Sir—none.
Sir 0 F. Wirssasis—Why, then, it is a complete blank.
Mr.' CrArrnsox—The balance-sheet gives no dates, and
upon that fact alone lie could not be now permitted to pass
his last examination. The Learned Counsel then read a
letter addressed by the bankrupt to Archdeacon Brymer,
giving an account of -how the moneys were invested, the
greater part of which had turned out to be untrue. Ue pre-
tended to have effeeted mortgages with parties, in:Anding
names of the highest respectability; but instead of doing s,
he received the. moneys as they were paid off, and made use
itulktect a long list
of it himself. The Liarned Counsel recap
sl to have been
of names, and the particulars of mortgages ss.i
concluded.
After a few words of objection from Mr. Sturgeon as to the
intended examination of the bankrup who did not at sent ask for his certificate, the bankru:pt was then ca, wen
pre-
Mr. HUMPHREY said—l appear, ,Si.r on the behalf of th he
assignees, and bad and sorrowful -cis the case may be which
has been brought before yout, Honour's attention by my
Learned Friend Mr..olarksor,,- it is only one out of twenty-
three 6ses.which I represset, and each. one of -Which I un-
dertake to prove to the satisfaction of every reasonable being
to be case's in which the most heartless frauds have been per-
petrated by the bankrupt, amounting in the whole to no less
a suns than 92,0004 There is one unfortunate person whom.
the bankrupt has defrauded of 3,000/, so far back as the year
1824, when the money was deposited in his hands to place
out upon good security, and as the interest was regularly
paid up to the time of the fiat, the contrary was not known;
but in consequence of their being no security this poor
lady last week received parish relief, and she is now
about retiring to the workhouse.—(Sensation.): ' There is
also, your Honour, a person now in Court whoselnother had
been pillaged in an amount of 8,000/. in like manner, and
'this lady had a few days since been obliged to sell articles of
furniture in order to pay her rent.—(Several voices, " Shock..
inc.'.") The assignees feel it their unavoidable duty to go,
fullyinto these cases, which will show a degree of heartless_
ness unequalled in any case brought before a court of justice:
To the extent of 92,000/. I shall be able to prove fraud as bad,
or worse, than the case which my Learned Friend has just
stated, and the desire of the assignees is.to show to the world
the extent of these terrible frauds. I have the representa-
tive, now sitting by my side, of a lady who deposited 25,000/S
in the hands of the bankrupt, to be advanced upon security,
the whole of which is lost, although a statement had been
sent by the bankrupt to her, in which the time, circumstance,
and place of the various securities in which her money had
been placed was detailed, the whole of which statement now
appears to be a fabrication from beginning to end.
The bankrupt was here sworn, and examined by Mr.'
CLARKSON—The letters referred to, and addressed to Dr.
Lushington, are in my handwriting, but before I answer fur-
ther questions, I merely wish to state, that when this unfor-
tunate occurrence took place I wrote to Mr. Lewis, offering
to give him every information that lie required. Ido not
attempt to deny that I have acted improperly, but in most
instances, there are circumstances of great palliation. After
having given every information, am I bound to proceed in
answering?
•
-The Court intimated that he was bound to answer ever,-
question put to him by his creditors.
Examination resumed—l was acquainted with Mr. ",s'il..
kinson, who, I believe, died in 1827, and Archdeacon 1.:,..,eme5,
Dr. Lushingten and myself were co-executors L 1 'timer, his
will. At the time of his death, I believe, there „as a
mortgage of 3,5004 on the property of- a Perison named
Clubb, which was afterwards released by I).?:Lushington,
in order to release it in the name of R. G. Trorighton.
Ile 3,500/. ?—I can-
Mr. oAm:sox—What didyou do with t
not recollect.
`nas it advanced to Mr. Troughton ?-4t was not. It went
into y general fund. [Here the 'bankrupt, who appeared in
a very weak state, burst into teitis]. .
Mr. CLARKSON—Do you ;Mean by thatanswer that you
applied it to your own r.diposes ?--Yes, before Dr. Lush-
ington released Clubb 's mortgage the interest was paid into
the Bank in the name of Clubb, and after that date, and up
to the fiat, it was paid in the name of Troughton.
What was your object in keeping up the payments of inte-
rest in the name of Troughton when that gentleman had
nothing to do with it ? The bankrupt (in tears)—lt ought
not to have been done.
Sir 0. F. Wir.ussts--You need not press for an answer to
that question, Mr. Clarkson ; the reason is almost obvious.
Mr. CLaztcsus—Now, in reference to Park's mortgage of
3,000/e is the letter 'dated the 16th of September, in whicht
you state that the money is to be lent on an estate in Mid-
dlesex and Hampshire, to pay interest 4i per cent. ? The
bankrupt—It is my writing. The money never was advanced
to him. The same course as to payment of interest was pur-
sued as in the case of Troughton.
Mr. CLARKSON—Now, as to Fry's mortgage of 3,5000
The bankrupt—There was a mortgage of 3,5001. "to Mr. Fry,
which was also released, and supposed by Dr. 111:yrner to have
been secured upOn another estate in the same name. I paid
the interest up to the time of the fiat,lint it was never
transferred to any estate in Hampshire, or anywhere else.
The money has gone into my general funds, but not for my
necessaries. I have no doubt but that at the time there was.
some contemplated security, though. I admit it was never
completed.
Mr..CLARKSON—Was there any title approved of by Mr.
H. B Her, as you stated in your letter to Dr. Lushingtoe ?-
1
have no doubt but there was, but it is so long since that I.
cannot say. I never told the, trustees that the transfer was
not completed.
The bankrupt was next examined with reference to the
transfer of a mortgage of 4,0001. (to a Mr. J. P. Bumard,
when it appeared that the transfer of that particular suns
had never been made, although Barnard (as stated by the
bankrupt) was then indebted to him in a larger 'SUM This
sum had gone in the same manner (i. e., been made away
with) as all the others, although he had paid interest into
the bank in Burnard's name. In respect of the bankrupt's
obtaining the tin box from Messrs. Childes, he stated that
Mr. Wilkinson had allowed him the use of the 9,000/., and
that he . had deposited the deeds of his Kensington and
Clapton estates with them as security. The box was aftes-
wards obtained from them by letter from are, and I never
returned it. I believe I did not ask the executors for leave
to remove it. (In much agitation)—I can say no more.
Mr. CLARKSON—Have these gentlemen any security- for
the sums of 17,000/. and 9,000/. ?—None whatever.
By Mr. lIIMPIIREY-1 was concerned fer Mrs. Blair, who
died in 1841.
Were there. any securities given for her money ?--There
were securities in nearly every instance.
Was there ever such a deed as Fry's in existence for 2,3004,
and that it was ever executed ?--.1. believe there was, but I
do not recollect. Fry was a timber merchant, and now lives
at St. John's-wood. His name is William Fry. I will not
swear I had securities for that money, but by a reference to
certain papers I should be able to explain all this, The
greater esation of Mrs. Blair's 6,0001. was paid off.
hill you not appropriate it to your own use ?--It 'went
into my own accounts,
That is, you misappropriated it, as you did nil the other
moneys ?-I'.'ss, it was so.
Did yen not represent to Mrs. Blair that all this money
was advanced to Mrs. Seabrook ?---It was so stated, I be-
Out of that money, appro-
lieve, and 4,5004 was, I admit"
priated to my own use. I '4- as concerned for a person of the
name of Trott, in which, h sum of 3,250/. was absorbed, and
in consequence of whieh one of the co-legatees was now com-
pelled to seek shelter in a union workhouse.
Mr. Hutarunitr—The representatives of Captain Blair lost
upwards of 15,758/., and on the part of all the other sufferers,
it would be unnecessary for him to repeat a tale of such gross
and fraudulent circumstances.
• Sir C. F. Wnwsts—This is not an every day case, and
the bankrupt should have time to explain.
Mr. FlournnEr—We have no objection to delay in favour
of the bankrupt, and we shall furnish him with a list of all
the cases which we charge against bins to have been of a
most fraudulent character.
Mr. STURGEON—The case, Sir, is very complicated—
Sir C. F. WrirsAms—Why, Sir, it is one, unfortunately, of
the clearest cases of fraud that ever came before the Court.
Mr. Hustinextornsr suggested an adjournment of the case to
Monday .
A long conversation here took place, in the course Of which
The bankrupt said, he was ready to give his creditors
every information. Ile had never denied his unfortunate
sitution—he knew he could not ; all lie could do Was to
throw himself on the kind consideration of those whom he
had injured.
It was eventually agreed by all parties that a short ad-
lurnment should take place to hear anything the bankrupt
might wish to say in palliation or explanation, and subse-
quently receive the, judgment of the Court on bli last exa-
mination,

„
rinitiete- on :Dog Stealing (IfetropOlis),:—;-Mr. Liddell,
.QV We liona, Mr.- Kelly, .111 r. Henry Berkeley (Bristol)
Mr. Beek4t Denison; Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr.' Fitzroy,
Arr..lll2,ekintion, Sir John ATarde Buller, Major Beres-
Ara; Visebunt _Barrington, Mr. Montague Gore, Lord'
Arthim. Lennox, -Sir Robert Piget, and Mr. Richard
Hodgson.. - too much facility
was-lately given to granting Committees, but.he.never
;thought it would -go to . the extent to which the lion.
Gentleman was about to carry it.--(lliar. hear.) There:
was to be, a Select .Committee to inquire into the steala
ing of poodles and lap-dogs in thelnetrepolis.---(Bear„,
hear, and laughter.) I Ile was. sorry :the "tight Inin. I
Gentleman, the Secretary of State, •had given his assent l
/
to. the. nomination of the Committee, But,,. perhaps, if'.
he,,ttsked. the House, it would reverse its, decision, as it 'I
WAS
,not very obstinate.(Latighter.)
Sir J. GRAHAM-7-11)ogg
reaed.—(Laughte i
. Mr., LABOUCHERE lly thought that this Com-
,
mittee ought not to be granted, and he Would move; its-47
the .only means now left to. him, that-the fibst name be 1 1
'omitted.•---(Hear„hear.) -
But as-he was aware that a well organised system existed
forthe.stealitig of dogs, Which he would he able to expose
: •
.if he, obtained a' CoMmittee, he "Would 'Persevere in
asking for it; uniess.the House thought otherwise. •
Mr. WAKLEY thow.ht that -the Committee ought to'
be made. more- extastvo.. and embrace the practice ()f:
dogs in the..country prevailed to a great eXterit. . They
Were theri . sold in the metropolis,. Where i
they were
stolen over and over again, and
tat last exported.-H
.(Laughter.) • This system of- trade had Gentle
'proba,
come under the obiervation of the Right
Ho n. Gentlemablni.
He hoped the Hon. Member would withdraW his motion,
and move fur leave. to lazing in a Bill. ' !
- Mr. -BROTHERTON moved the adjournment of the
House, _but subsequently wlthdreiv his motion._ _ --
The House divided on-the motion for tha.appointment
of the Committee,' when there appeared-- i -
. • For the Committee ....... : ......... : ...... 135 - - Against it; ...... : .... .. ...................... , 8
• Majority for the Committee ...... —27
Sir G, CIiERK obtained leave to - bring in. a Bill to
continue certain-of the allowances Of the dud)/ of excise
on soap used In manufactures.
Mr. G. W. HOPE obtained •leave to bringi in a Bill
to continue an Act-of the 10th Geo. IV., " foe, p,rovitligg
for the Government .of his. Majesty's Settlements in
Western Australia, on the • Western Coast of New
Holland."
. .
PRESBYTERIAN MARRIAGES (IRELAND)
BILL.
On the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM, this Bill was
read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time
on Thursday. - ..
The other orders of the day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at a Quarter to Twol

PARLIAMUN TAR Y, DIVISI

NS

(From the Votes and Proceed:rigs of the House of Colnmons.)
THURSDAY, JULY 11. • -
RAILWAYS BILL.
Motion made, and Question proposed, " That the Bill be
now read a second time :"—Amendment propoSed, to leave
out the word " now," and at the end of the Question to add
the words " upon this day six months :"—Question put, " Thit
the word ' now' stand part of the Question :" The House
divided :

• MAJORITY--AYES, 186.
Acland, Sir Thomas L'lstnor, Viscount • Morrison, (General
A'Court, Captain ' Egerton, W. 1. Morrison
James
Adderley, C. B. Eliot, Lord Neville, Ralph
Aglionby H. A. EScott, Biehkain : Newry, Viscount .
Wain, W. Estcourt, T. G. B. Nichol!. J.l Altord, Viscount Fellowes, Edward • Paget, F. 1 •
Allix, John Teter Fitzroy, Hon. H Palmer, It
Archdall, Captain Flower, Sir James Patten, J. ,W
Arkwright, George Forbes, , Pechell, Carptain
Bailhe, Colonel H. ' Fox, S. Lane Peel, Sir Robert
Balfour, J. M. Fremantle, Sir T. Peel, Jonathan
Baring, W. B. Gaskell, James Milnes Plumptre, J. P.
Barneby, J. Gladstone, W. E. • Praed, W. X.
Bateson, Robert Gordon, Captain Pringle, Al xanderp
Beckett, William Gordon, Hon. W. Pusey, Piifip
Bentinck, Lord G. Goring, Charles - Bowdon, J, D.
Blackburne, J. L Goulburn, H. Reid, Sir Jolt.
Bodkin, W. H. - Graham, Sir James Renton, Gerge J.
Bolder°, Henry G. Greene, T. Rice, E. R..
Betfield, Boriah Grimston, Lord ' Rolleston, Colonel
Bowles, Admiral Gtogan, Edward Round, John
Bowring, Dr. • Hale, R. Blagdon Rumbold, C. E.
Bramston, T. W. Hamilton, Lord C. Rushbrookei,Colonel
Brisco, M.. . Hayes, Sir E. Russell, Lord E.
Btocklehurst, J. Heathcoat, John Sanderson' aichard
Brooke, Sir A. B. Henley, J. W. Seymour,
Lord
Brotherton, J.. - Hepburn, Sir.l'. B. Seymour, Sir H. B.
Browne, W. Herbert, Sydney Sheppard, I[l.P
Buck, Lewis W. Hodgson, Frederick Shieey, E. . Bunbury, Thomas Hope, Charles - Sibthorp,
Colonel
Burroughes, H. N. Horsman, E. Smith, Abel
Campbell, J. H. Howard, Lord Smith, R. Vernon
Cavendish, Hon. C. Howard, E. G. Smith,lllllon. T.B. C
Cavendish, Hon. G. Nnwick, 'Lord Smyth, Sir 0. 11
Chelsea, Lord Hussey, Ambrose Somerset, rd G.
Childers, J. W. ingestre, Lord Sotheron, 1' 11
Cholmopdeley, Hugh James, Sir W. C. Stanley,Lor
Clay, Sir W Jermyn. Earl Stuart, Villi rs
Clayton, Rice R. Jollitte,Sa W. Stuart, H.
Clerk, Sir George Jones, T. . Stock, Sergeant •
Clive, Viscount Knatchbull. Sir R Strutt, Edward
Clive, R. H. Knight, Henry Golly Sutton, Henry M.
Cockburn, Sir G. Knight, F. •W. 'ferment, J. ;1.:.
W.
Codrington, Sir Labouchere, H. Thesiger, F. Colborne, W. Ridley Lascelles, W. S. £hornely, Tnomas
Cole, Hon.H.:A. Law, Hon. C. E. Trotter, John
Corlett, John Lefroy, Anthony Verner, Colonel
Corry, Henry Liddel, H. T. Vesby, Hon. Thomas
Cowper, Hon. W. Lockhart, William Vivian. John Ennb
Craig, W. Gibson Ligon, Hon. Gen. Waddington, Harry S
Crawford, W, S. M`Geachy, F. A. Wall, B,
Cripps, W. ; Maclean, Donsld Wallace, Robert
Curteis, H. B. Macnamara, W. Warburton, Henry
Darner, Hon. G. M.Neill, Duncan Wawn, J. T.
Darby, George Mahon, Viicount Wemyss, Captain
Denison, John Evelyn Manners,.Lord C. S. Williams, .
Denison, E. Beckett Manners, Lord J. Wodehouse, , mono
Dickinson, F. H. Marshall, W. Wortley, Hon. Jn. S.
Douglas, Sir H. Marshall, W. Wrighston, W. B.
Douglas, Sir C. Marshani„ Viscount Yorke, E. T.;
Dowdeswell, W. Martin, C. W. .
Douglas,
Sir Howard Meynell, H. Youn Joh
nh
Duncombe,TELLas
A. Milnes g, , Richard Lennox, Lord A.

MINORITY—NOES, 98.
.. ,
Ackers, James Forman, T. S. blunts, G. F.,
Ainsworth, Peter Gardner, J. D. Napier, Sir Charles
Bailey, Joseph, jun. Gibson, T. M. Ogle, S. C. Eff
Bannerman, A. Gill, Thomas Ord William
Barnard, E. G. Gisborne Thomas Packe, C. W.
Barrington, Viscount Gore, W. Ormsby Parker. J.
Berkeley, Captain. Greenall, Peter Philips, G. R.
Berkeley, H. F. Grosvenor, Lord It. Plumridge, Captain
Bernal, Ralph • Hallyburton, Lord Ponsonby, C. F. A. C
Borth wick, Peter Hawes, B. Power, James
Bouv'erie, E. I'. Hayter, W. G. Protheroe, Edward
Bowes, John Hill, Lerd:Marcus Pulsford, Robert
Bright, John Hinde, J. H. Itashleigh, Wm.
broadley, H. Hindley, Charles Ricardo, J. L.
Buller, C. Hodgson, Richard Richards, Richanl
Chapman, Aaron Holland, Robert R.issell, Charles
, B. liornby, John Scott, H.
Cnarteris, Hon. F. Howard. C. G. W. Seale, Sir J. H.
Christie, W, 1.): Hughes, W. B. • Smith, J. Abel • Christopher, R. A Johnstone, Sir John Somerville, Sir W.
Clive, E. B. Langston, J. H. Stewart, P.
M.
Cobden, Richard Langton, W. Gore Talbot, C. R. M.
Colebrooke, Sir T. Lemon, Sir C. Tancred, Hoary
Colquhoun, J. C. Long, Walter 'Thompson, Ald W
. Dalmeny, Lord Lowther, John H. Tufnell, Henry Dalrymple, Captain Lowther, Colonel Turner, E.
D'Eyncourt, C. I'. Macaulay, T. B. Villiers, Charles P.
Duncan, Lord M.Taggart, J. Vivian, J. H.
Duncan, George Mangles,: lt, U; Wakley, Thomas
Dundas, J. C. Martin, John Walker R.
Easthope, John Miccalfe, Henry Yoke, R. IL
Elphinstone, Howard :Mitchell, T. A. TELLERS.
eilden, W. Morris,
,David Ward, H. G. Forester, Hon. C. W Mundy, E. M. Entwisle, William

DOG-STEALING COMMITTEE.
Motion made,•and Question put, " That Mr. Liddell be one
of the Members of the Select Committee on Dog-Stealing :"
The House divided :

MAJORITY—AYES, 3.5.
Baring, Hon W. B Jermyn, Lard Smith, T. B. C.
Benunck. Lcrd G Knight, F. Winn Stanley, Lord
Blackburne,J.ireland Lennox, Lord A. Stuart, H.
Buller, !Sir J. Yarde Lincoln, Earl of Sutton, Hon. H. M
Clayton, R. R. Lockhart, William Thesiger, F. Clerk, Sir George M'Neill, Duncan Trench, Sir F.
Capps, W. Marsham, °Viscount Waddington, H. S.
Fremantle, Sir T. Martin, C. W Wakley, Thomas
Goulburn, Henry O'Connell, M. J. Young, John
Graham, Sir James Peel, Jonathan
Greene, 'l'. Power, James
Hale, Robert B. Pringle, A. TELLERS.
Herbert, Hon. S. Rushbrooke, Colonel Douglas,
Sir C. E.

MINORITY-NOES, 8.
Archbold, Robert Hussey, Ambrose
Brotherton, J. Palmerston, Vis.
Escott, Bickham Seymour, Lord •
Hawes, B. Wawn, John T.

TELLER s.
Elowick, Viscount
Labouchere, H.

SIGHT AND HEARING TESTIMONIALS.
39, ALBEMARLE-STREET, - PICCADILLY. General
Browne Clayton feels desirous to express the comfort
and advantage he has derived at his advanced age of 70
years and after two years' trial, from the use of Messrs.
S. and B. Solomons newly invented Spectacles. Their
valuable inventions fully merit the patronage they have
received. Address, Adlington-hall, Lancashire.
Major-General Sir Howard Elphinstone begs to say that
the Spectacles' he has now had some time- in use, have
fully. redeemed the assurance of .the Messrs. S. and B.
Solomons as to their excellence, and having found so
much comfort and advantage from their use, far prefer-
able to every other kind of glasses. 13, Norfolk-street,
Park- lane.—The Hon. George Cavendish, to Messrs. S-
and B. Solomons, 39, Albemarle-street, Piccadilly, op-
posite the York Hotel. Gentlemen, .I approve wry much
of the Spectacles I purchased from you ; I have made
use of glasses for many years, and never met with any
to enable me to see equal to yours, and with less ineou-
Venience to my eyes, Yours obediently, G. Cavendish
Leixlip Castle; Ireland.--Llmproved Achromatic Teles-
copes, Opera Glasses, Microscopes, &o„ of the same kind
of lenses, to surpass- any ever yet invented.---The
Messrs. S. and B. Solomons' Invincible Operator Voice
Conductor, Sound Magnifiers for deaf persons, give im-
mediate relief to old . standing eNtronie cases of deaf-
ness,---Caution. Messrs. S. Alld Solomons, Opticians
and Aurists, are not in a,ny way connected with a person
of the same name in their immediate neighbourhood.
Nor in any part of the country. To prevent mistakes,
he cautious and observe—onit to be had -at 39, Albe-
marle-street, Piccadilly, opposite the York Hotel.
WILSON'S SCOTTASU ENTERTAINMENTS.--'These de-
lightful and intc.roting entertainments are drawing to a
Close for the season, for we perceive that Mr. 'Wilson has
;announeed next Monday as hia last evening in the
Music-hall, Store-street, and next Wednesday as h last
morning in the Hanover-square Rooms. la no small
tribute to the Went of Mr. Wilson, that, notwithstand-
-ing the unmertais imitators that his unparalleled succeQ-
has called forth, he alone has kept his ground, while
glQy have all dwindled off by degrees. On Wednesday
he gave his entertainment entitled "acobite Relics," in
the Hanover-square Rooms, whAch were, as usual, graced
with the elite of the fashionable world, amc,,ng whom we ob-
served the Gallant Yetep,o, Sir G. Murrayiwho seemed to
enjoy aina*.gly the, Minstrel's discoursing of the sena
0,r,if,0 Jacobites. Next Monday will be a
grcati nighl
at Store-street, for, besides its being the. 4;anclu,Png
night of the season, Wilson has cc .;,ted '-any of ithe
favourite songs he :has re,n4“rd poputhr, and alan the
Fa DiaVolo, which ho was wont
celebrated ,se9i. f 344,1
to'ina4 ';(1 effective on another arena We perceive that
ValsOn 'is to be present at the apProltching_Burns' Fes-
, .tivEil en " the Banks o' the Door)." rt would scarce be
complete bin?, seeing that- he has dove• more to
k9M4i. Am§ familiak% lOU to. 9- '
pars; tlltn. any gr -443 ever _outeern
to, take a, Wier. He is about
ActlSSlttaiialairA. ne will, no doubt, be hailed
A- • _ , , •

salmon, weighing 42 lbs., and 4 feet in length,
was caught in the Severn last week, by Mr Trotman, of
Oldbury.

ADVERTISEMBNT.—A Miat's HAND SMASHED By
MACIIINERV CURED BY .lloLLowAy's OINTMENT AND
PlLLS.—James Watkin, an engineer, residing in Castle_
street, Borough; had his. hand and wrist broken by a,
steam-engine,,was eight months at the hospital, where
they proposed to amputate it, which the patient would
not submit to. Several pieces of bone came away. be-
sides the formation of three n.l.)seesses on the back of the
as likewise the
hiVati. The wrist wa4 jot] feetly useless,
elbow joint, w}:;tclx Lad become quite contracted. In
this doplorieble state he commenced the use of these ex-
traordinary medicines, whleh effected a perfect cure in
about nine weeks, Sold at Professor Holloway's Esta-
blishment, $44, Strand (where advice may be had,
gratis), and by almost all vendors of medicine through-
out the civilised ward,