The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-02 00:00:00

Mr. MILNER GIBSON wished to explain in a few words
why he would vote for the amendment of his Hon. Friend.
The proposition of his Hon. Friend was simply this. He
! wished the majority of that House to redress the
grievances of the people at the same time that they
provided for the expenditure of the State. He was
glad to find that the Right Honourable Gentleman at the
head of the Government had taken the advice of the Noble
Lord the Member for London, and that he had given a pledge
not to maintain the existing corn-law.—(Cheers.) He (Mr.
Gibson) drew the inference from the speech of the Right lion.
Gentleman, that he would not yield to any unreasonable re-
quest from the agriculturists to pledge himself to maintain the
protective system. They could plinly..see in the speech of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, that when he intended to maintain
any particular line of policy that he would pledge himself to
maintain that policy. They saw that he would pledge himself
to maintain the legislative union between England and Ireland.
He (Mr. Gibson) knew perfectly well that neither the Right
Hon. Baronet, nor any other Minister in the present state of
the country, would authorise a speech which pledged the Go-
vernment to maintain a protective policy ; or that any Minister
addressing the House upon his general views would do any
thing more than say "at the present particular moment I have
no measure to submit to the consideration of Parliament."
The Right Hon. Baronet had taken a most judicious course.
He had left this an open question.—(oh, oh.) He had
pledged himself to no longer a period than a month. He had
said that if the abolition of the corn-laws were to take place
within a month it would be most disastrous to the eountry.
He (Mr. Gibson) defied the Right Hon. Baronet, or any
other Minister, to stand up in his place that evening, and say in
so many words, " I will maintain the existing corn-laws." He
(Mr. Gibson) was glad the Right Hon. Gentleman had taken
that course, because he differed in some measure with his
Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose, that it was desirable
that the Right Hon. Baronet should pledge himself on the
question—especially if he pledged himself tc maintain the
protective system.—(Laughter.) Knoa ing the authority the
Right Honourable Gentleman was in the country—know-
ing the great consequence attached by the occupying
tenantry to any distinct enunciation by the Right Hon. Baronet
with respect to this question. If he were to do so the pro.
prietor of the land would say to the occupying tenant, " You
may have faith that protection will be maintained—you may
agree to pay higher rents—you may contract safely to take
leases at higher rents, for the Right Hon. Gentleman will
never give way." That would be the course taken by the
landed proprietors if any distinct pledge were to be given by
her Majesty's Government. He (Mr. Gibson) hoped the oc-
cupying tenantry of the country would see how unstable a
foundation they had in former times rested upon. He hoped
they would see how dangerous it was to place faith in any re.
presentation that protection would be maintained. He
( Mr. Gibson) would take the advice given by Honourable
Gentlemen around him, and not trespass longer on
the attention of the House, as there would be
other opportunities of discussing these important ques-
tions. But he hailed with great satisfaction the movement
which the Hon. Gentlemen opposite had taken upon themselves
to conduct, in support of the protective system. He thought
it quite right, if they believed that the protective system was
for the benefit of the labouring classes or the great body of the
industrial community, that they should express their opinions
in public, and all he asked of them was to confine themselves
to ratianal argument and to intelligent reasoning, and not
allow themselves to be betrayed into abusive and discreditable
language.—(Cheers and laughter.) The use of such language
could not be justified on any side in the discussion of public
questions. He could only say that if ever he had been guilty
of it himself he would be very happy to express his sorrow
for having been so betrayed. All he desired was that
that this question should be discussed, by the two great inte-
rests of the community in a rational and intelligent spirit ; and
he believed that if it were continued in that spirit, the landed
proprietors would see that a system of free trade was more
conducive to the commercial and manufacturing interest than one
of restriction ; and that if free trade were to be adopted, the
landed proprietors themselves would share in the general pros-
perity which would accrue to the country at large.
Sir R. PEEL thought it was hardly necessary for him
to answer the Hon. Gentleman. He apprehended the Hon.
Gentleman meant to be facetious, because he was himself smil-
ing. The lion. Gentleman had said that he ( Sir R. Peel)
was the advocate of the abolition, 'within a month, of all pro-
tection to agriculture. That he (Sir Robert Peel)
had said was that if such a measure was carried within a month
nothing but disorder and confusion would ensue.—(Cheers.)
The Hen. Gentleman said that all he (Sir R. Peel) had said
en the subject of the corn-laws was that he was not prepared
to consent to a repeal of the corn-laws within a month.
What he had really said—and the House would recollect it, was
that the Government intended to propose no alteration, and
that if they had intended any alteration it would have been
mentioned. The Government had never contemplated any
alteration, and they did not then contemplate any alteration.
He said he believed that every man who well considered the
duty of a Minister of this country who proposed to conciliate
support, would see that on the part of the Government, in
matters relating to the imposition of a duty not involving a great
public principle, he could not involve an eternal principle.
Mr. PLUMPTRE confessed that after the speech of the
Hon. Member for Manchester he would not have been satis-
fied. But after the explanation of the Right Yon. Baronet he
felt perfect satisfaction. He represented an agricultural con-
stituency, and he felt convinced that the speech of the Right
Hon. Baronet would prove perfectly satisfactory to them. He
could assure Hen. Gentlemen opposite that they would never
succeed in putting down the agricultural interest by clamour
and combination. He trusted the Government would be firm
in their determination to uphold the agricultural interest, for
if it were once injured every other great.interest of the country
must suffer.

..Mr. BROTHERTON said, that although he intended to
vote with his Hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale, he
wished to guard himself against the supposition that he intended
to enter into a compact against the granting of the supplies.
He would never do so, because he believed that such means
would never attain the object they had in view. He had lately
been waited upon by members of his own constituency, who
had called upon him to enter his opposition to the granting of
the supplies. His answer to them was, were he to grant their
request, they themselves would be the first to turn round and
condemn him for having done so. They would discern that a
small minority were wasting the whole of the session in useless
divisions against the majority, while the grievances of
the people remained unconsidered. He could never agree
to such a course as that. With respect to what had fallen
from the Hon. Seconder of the address, he (Mr. Brotherton)
was ready to admit that improvement had taken place in some
of the branches of our manufactures ; but in making that ad-
mission, he must say that there was every reason to expect that
that improvement could not continue. He must confess that
he did not draw the same inference from the speech of the
Right Hon. Baronet as the Hon. Member for Manchester. He
fully understood the cheer which followed the declaration of
the Right Hon. Baronet, that a fixed duty would not be pro.
posed by him. The country would.soon see who were their mas-
ters. The landed interest would press them to starvation point,
and then, relaxing a little, would save them from'actual death.
It was clear the Right Hon. Bart. intended to keep up the
sliding scale. If it should please Providence to afflict us with
another bad harvest, what would be the condition of the pea..
plc? Were the landed proprietors determined to keep up their
protection at the expense of the lives of the people ? He,
while he had the power, would use every endeavour to
get rid of this law, which was a disgrace to the statute book.
He saw the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln present.
Now, he had read in a newspaper, that at a meeting where he
was present they talked of the League, and the language used
by them ; but it was said that if Mr. Cobden came to Lincoln-
shire they should throw him into the river.—(Laughter.)
Was not that holding out a premium for assassination ?—( A
laugh.) Were men to be threatened with being drowned
when they went to a place for the purpase of doing good?
Now, there was a Mr. Chaplin, a great landed proprietor, he
was in possession of upwards of 20,000 acres of land, which
within the present century was not worth Is. an acre, and now
it was worth 255., and yet that individual wanted protection.—
' (Hear, hear.) What protection, he would ask, had the poor
man ? None. —( Hear, hear.) It had been attempted to be
shown that he had protection, that protection was given to
the farmer arid labourer, but neither one nor the other had
been shown.—( Hear, hear.) And now the landed class clung
to protection because it was beneficial to them. He felt no
doubt that the people would feel the injustice of these things,
and would so be enabled to put an end to them.
Mr. VILLIERS and Mr. MUNTZ rose together, but the
latter gave way, and Mr. Villiers proceeded to address the
House :—He felt greatly indebted to his Hon. Friend, the
Member for Montrose, for moving the amendment he had done.
He had mentioned the subject to him, and his (Mr. Villiers')
only reason for either not seconding the motion or moving it was
that it was his intention to bring the corn-laws before the
House in a distinct form.—(Hear, hear.) He must confess
that he did not altogether think the mode adopted by the Hon.
Member for Montrose the most efficient mode of bringing so
important a subject before the House.—( Hear, hear.) The
constitnencies had had the subject most ably and faithfully dise
cussed before them, and they ought to have an opportunity of
asking their Members which way they intended to vote. This
subject had been brought under the attention of the consti-
tuency by a great combination of intelligence, worth, and in-
fluence, but no fair discussion had been taken on the subject in
that House.—(Hear.) Indeed he felt that this question must
be discussed out of doors, and, in fact, carried there, before it
could be carried in that House.—( Hear, hear.) And if there
was any doubt upon that subject that doubt had been removed
by what had taken place that night ; because the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government had shown
that he felt he could not maintain the present system or
abandon it.—(Hear, hear.) That was the situation of the
question. Those who took independent views of the question
felt it was not tenable or consistent with the interests of the
people. Ihe Bight Hon. Baronet felt that by the principles
of the Constitution lie could not abandon it. The Noble Lord,
then Member for the City of London, had said, in so many words
that it was necessary for the landed interest and the aristocracy,
and that they had a direct interest in the question. —( Hear.)
Since the revolution of 1788 the aristocracy had governed the
country. The Government was not the Government of the
Queen, but the Minister was the Minister of the landed pro-
prietors ; they it was who governed the country.—(Hear. )
It was not, therefore, to be wondered at that the Right Hon.
Baronet would not alter a law which he knew if he did he
would not be safe in his place in the Government for a month,
or a week, or a day ; in short, that his Government would be
at an end the moment he abandoned a system from which the
people suffered so much, and the landed proprietors received
such benefits._(Hear, hear.) The protective policy was the
most important question that could be agitated in this country;
it was the question upon which everything must turn in the
country, for it effected the physical condition of the people in
every respect.—( Hear, hear.) The present protective system
could net be maintained consistently with the good of the
people of the country. He thought it did not become the
Right Hon. Baronet to countenance demonstrations against
the proceedings of the Anti-Corn-law League in order to en-
deavour to persuade the people that the repeal of the corn-
laws would be injurious to them. He had read a work in the
Foreign and Colonial Review, in which he believed the Right
Hon. the President of the Board of Trade, had some share.
The Government were claiming praise for the improvement of
the general condition of the country ; but what were the causes
of the fluctuation that had taken place in that condition they
were not told. Now the whole ef the question was handled in
the work he' had alluded to, which had been just put forth,
which was a consideration of the commercial policy of the pre-
sent Government in lowering the duties and the tariff. It was
in that work viewed under five heads : —lts effects on trade; on
increased demand for manufactures ; increased demand for
employment ; its effect on shipping ; and its effect on agriettl-
.- tore; and in that work the very arguments held out by those
who were advocates for free trade were prominently put forth.
It was said it was impossible to have free trade and
protective duties ; this very work proved that by free
1 trade the people would have cheaper clothing, cheaper dwellings,
' and cheaper every thing, if they had free trade.—(Hoare
hear.) This work stated that its effects on trade were redac-
t ' tion of duty, increased consumption, and increased trade.
That in every respect increased consumption of foreiritar.et:
; Iles led to increased demand for manufactures; . that in.
a
E creased demand for employment would be inereeastectebyrefln
trade ; that its effect on shipping was to isereastr lts fo i
extensive
improvement t 7
culture trade, a
wasel also
the tinetit,
importation
forcf
cattleships ;; ande its effect
e.ete,
improvement in
were the sentiments that had been put
agriculturists. These
' trade would follow, and be participated in by
forth under the especial patronage, he
Right tlietilon.
d, ofGtehnetlPemreat
I u
I dent of the Board of Trade. That n
last session, had been charged with heing the author of t
particular article in this Review, and he did not deny it.. Now
was not this, he would ask, trifling with the people? The
population f this country was increasing at a frightful rate,