The Sun.
London, England, 1826-04-08 00:00:00

ithigh end efficient Minister who would have spare time to de-
vote to those unappropriated duties, it was so at present, when
every active department of the State was overwhelmed with
emPlVment. His Right Hon. Friends the President of the
Boars of Trade, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secrets.
ries of State for the Home and Colonial Departments% all found
then leer in the situation he had described. For himself, he
should not speak, except to say that hedul not spare himself.—
Th*.trestion to be put, was not whetherthe)business of Trea-
surer of 'the Navy was so oieriheliningYibat no other duty
cot ki be,propkrly connected with' it; the elueetion wee, whether
the business of the President of the Board of 'frade was so
ovetwhelining that no other dudes ought to he Connected with
that; 'Alfirthielatter question there could be no hesitation in
answering in the affirmative. If to this another goestion beaddedt
whedter tth hum of the highest talent in . office es, Treasurer of
the Navy might not employ his time fidly in important public
duties, and to that question also an affirmative answer may he
promptly given, surely the question 'before the Howie can no
Ringer imcounter any difficulty, on account of the insufficient
`chutes of the office of Treasurer of the Navy. The important
duty of hearing causes before the Privy Council is one to which
in the preeent state of things he for one could not pay any atten-
tion; and many of his Noble and Right Hun. Colleagues were
in a 'limiter situation. Then it' they were not to be assisted by
stifle person, the duties of whose particular office were less bur-
acrlsonle, great detriment might arise to carrying on the affairs
of government. There were then two propositions to be con-
s.idered. The first was that the President of the Board of
Trade was an office of so much importance, that it ought to be
rendered independent of any other. From this Proposition
there Appeared to be no disposition to dissent. I With re-
spect to, the Treasurer of the Navy—the proposition to be
' considered was, whether in an office branching out into a vs-
flay of departments there must not of necessity be an efficient
ilea& They might elevate the secondary officer into the princi-
pal, but would not another then become the secondary ? It must
always be indispensable in such an office that there must be a
• man of consideration to be referred to, anti as the head of the
office was liable to he .removed upon political occurrences, it
followed that there ought to be a second officer fully acquainted
with all the business of the office. He would again advert to
the illestration with which he had commenced ; if the head clerk
of a hanker wasnot fidly employed during the whole day, was
it therefrom to be inferred that his ditties were unimportant ?
The first proposition with which they had to deal was that
which related to the President of the Board of Trade. Having
put that important office in a fit position, it would be open to
them to deal with the other proposition afterwards in whatever
manner might be deemed expedient. The Hon. and [Atoned
Gentleman opposite had accused Ministers of acting systemati-
cally with a view to increase their patronage in that House. The
Vice President of the Board of was not a new officer in-
troduced to that House.- Upon a system of commutation, whe.
there good or bad system he need not stop to inquire —the office
of Paymaster of the Forces had been, as regarded a seat in that
House, abanderied in favour of the Vice President of the Board
of Trade. So, in like manner the Vice Treasurer for Ireland
was merely, in that House, the successor of the Irish Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer. It could, Ito imagined, hardly be
thought that two, sir at the utmost three, Officers, connected
with the government of Ireland, were toomany in that House.
They load only the Secretary and the Vice Treasurer, and as
he had just been reminded, the Attorney-general for Ireland.
With respect, to-dto Board of 'Trade the only object in view
was to rescind a former engagement no longer applicable
to existing circumstances, The proposition with regard
lo it was, that the• office having been deemed a sinecure the
salary had beentaken•away, but it having now become a mast
efficient and laborious •ollice it was deemed expedient to attach
to it a proper salary. With respect to the Treasurer of the
Navy, lie should undertake to prove not only that it was an
office which • could, not, with ,reference to the business of the
Navy, be dispensed with., limit that the person holding it would
bu eminently useful ire •tuisisting••the general business of Go-
vernment. On the question. immediately before the House,
unanimity was most desirable, and however unanimous, they
might be upon that question, it would not prevent them from
paying hereafter the most; ample and scrupulous attention to
-the secondary question relating to the office of the Treasurer of
the Navy.
Sir G. 111141, spoke ,a few words explanatory of the duties of
Vito-'Treasurer of Ireland.
Mr. BERNAL, thought the amendment proposed ought to
adopted by the Cotmnittee. lie, could not undereiand how
,the beamcss of the office of Treasurer of the Navy could. be in.
treated in a time of pence like the present. Ile thought that
When they were tmatilmouely voting an allowance of 6,0001. to
the President ,of the Bond of Trade, they were bound to give
seine pledge that they would take every means of effecting
-other practicable reductions.
Mr. C 14:14.1 rr said, that in order to avoid what .would
be the disagreeable necessity of meeting the proposition with a
negative, ho should move that the Chairman report progress,
.And ask leave to sit again. The goverment would then have
time to consider of the subject until Monday, when he hoped
they would ,have reflected upon the sentiments expressed by
•every Member of the House.not immediately connected with
them, and be prepared with such a proposition as would not
silieturb the unanimity they ell so anxiously desired.
Sir l'. OM Mil NNEY thought the offices ought to be retain.
and both paid., although he did not expect to enjoy either
of thene--( A laugh.)—lie would say with deep sorrow, and
ha was entry to say it—(it laugh)--that the Right lion. that.
denmen bad not made oureo good a VIMe es he arts able to make
Out for him.--(Leughter, and et les of " Questien.")
'The Committee thee divided upon Mr.CALCHAF Alliellti.
flierit for reporting progress.
For the Amendment
Against it
Al diorite, - - —49
Mr. 11(1111E Naid, that after the discussion which had taken
• place, he was the more convinced of time propriety of the course
which he had recinnmended to the House by the Amendment
which he proposed an the previous night. Before they pro.
(ceded to add to the I-airtime of the country, they were bound
to inquire whether or the duties of the office of Treasurer of
the Navy could not be transferred to some other office, and its
salary if 3,000/. a year saved. Every gentleman who held the
situation gave. a different account of the nature and labour of
its duties; and the House ought to pledge themselves to inquire
what .they really were. He moved a similar amendment to
that of ,the preceding night, only limiting the pledge of time
House to an inquiry Into the office of the Treasurer of the
Navy.
'Mr. T. WILSON geld, that however reluctantly, he felt
himielf bound to vote for any amendment which would get rid
of time actual question. He thought the House, was placed in a
crust situation by the course which the government thoughefit
to adopt. Eva), one wee WltXiOttli that the allowance to the
night 11011. Cientienlaa should be voted in the most hambeitne
manner.-iii the manner which would be most agreeable to his
feelings. There was no difference of opinion as to the zeal and
talent with which the duties of the officeof Presitlentof the Board
of Trade had been discharged, and no one thought a salary of
4,0041. wave than they were justly entitled to. But lie
thought the How aught to inquire into the necessity of keep.
ing up the, office of Treasurer of the Navy, when they were
about to give such a salary to the individual who had held it ;
and if they neglected to do that now, there was little chance of
it being done hereafter. The way In which the Government
heti met the queetion sheaved that they were determined to
impport the increase, but to oppose the reduction. For this
reason he ehould feel it his duty to vote for the amendment,
and all who thought with him would be prevented from coin.
log to such a vote as would be satisfactory to the feelings of
the Right Hon. Gentleman—which, he was sure, they were all
-111014L.ATIXtOttti to do.,
Mr. 11. GURNEY made a few observations which were in-
audible. -
Mr. MAI 3 :14X thought it a matter worth inquiring into,
whenher the Treasurer of the Navy should or should not have
a seat in Pediment. Independent of the question of the sa-
lary, he thought this was a sufficient ground for sending the
subject to a Conunittee.
The CII ANCECLOIt of the EXCHEQUER thought it a
molt extraordinary reason for supporting the amendment, to say
that an inquiry should take place as to whether an individual
officer should be prevented front having a seat in Parliament.
He could understand a general proposition for refusing a seat
So pediment to all holden of office, or an infinity whether
there wore not too many placemen in the House ; but to proceed
upon such an inquiry in respect to one particular office, ap.
Tweeted to him the most unparliementary course that could he
taken. He repeated that be could sue no connection whatever
between the two questions which the amendment proposed to
and he Should therefore resist it.
Mr. BARING said, that the government lied taken Oven-
. Aar of the popularity of the Right Hon. gentleman, whose
services to the country had been so long unpaid, to introduce a
job ; for it wee as green m j
a Govern
ent ob us ever was brought
forward, When they were told of the overwhelming labuurs
of the offices of Govereinent, it might be supposed that they
had been born but y esterday, and knew nothing of the affairs
•of the country for the last twenty yeard. Never could those:
chairs be proceeding, wore quietly iii their natural channel, end
lean lees interruption, than at the present moment. Ile Mitt-
aaieed that the 11403 L (Jon. Chancellor of the Exchequer by
er
e placed the Haute
ostiging airiv .object a
d the a:+ he had done,
,in the divagrectEde situation of being obliged to vote in man.
afar which might he, elsewhere,
mnstrued into an ungracious
!ohnoeiticiu to the grant. Any Bill founded upon the resolu.
then new before the S;timinittee must be opposed in all its
.stager, since it made OM popularity of a meritorious public ser-
vant time cover for a job.
Mr. It. itIARTIN said, that he should not have risen but
for one expression which had fallen trout the Hon. Member
who spoke last. Ile had never seen a proposition before the

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