The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-06 00:00:00

COUNTY RATES BILL.

Sir J. Y. BULLER postponed the second reading of this
Bill until Wednesday next.

SMOKE PROHIBITION BILL.

Mr. MACKINNON postponed his motion for going into
Committee on this Bill until Wednesday. next.
SCOTCH RANKING.

On the order of the day being read fur the House going
into Committee on this Bill,

Mr. P. M. STEWART said he thought he should be
guilty of a dereliction of duty if he did not express his decided
disapprobation of the Bill which had been introduced by her
Majesty's Government with respect to the banking establish-
ments of Scotland. He regretted that the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet, in endeavouring to better the condition of banking es-
tablishments of this country, should have touched those of
Scotland, which were acknowledged to be the most perfect that
existed ; and this then being the case, and being supported by
the opinions of those most competent to judge, he thought it
was the duty of every one conneeted with Scotland to express
their disapprobation of the 13,11 before the House. The Scot-
tish system of banking had been held up by many eminent
writers—flume among the number—as a model for the adop-
tion of other countries. After the 11. and 2/. notes had been
abolished in England a motion for an iriviry into the Scottish
banking system was made, and was resisted by all the most
distinguished Scotch authorities in both Houses of Parliament
at that period. Since then the system had not retrograded,
but, on the contrary, had been greatly improved. The reports
of the Committees of Commons and Lords, subsequently ap-
pointed to inquire into the subject, were to the effect, that no
good could come front any interference with the monetary af,
fairs of Scotland. The Right Hoaourable Baronet (Sir James
Graham) in 1825 and 1826, in speaking of the currency of
Scotland, said that if they had not interfered with the currency
of 1793, the disasters which occurred during those years might
have been in a great measure aver!ed. He could not then
conceive, when the banking system of that country was placed
on a proper footing, why the Government desired to interfere
with it, and he spoke the feelings of the people of Scotland
when he said that they considered the measure a wanton inter-
ference with their currency. He could foresee one intention on
the part of the Government, that their ultimate aim was the
suppression of all local banks of issue, and the establishment of
one national bank of issue. In 1840, a year of much depression '
in regard to monetary affairs, the circulation of the banks of
Scotland was much higher than in 1838. Three banks in
Glasgow, the Clydesdale, the City of Glasgow and Edinburgh,
and the Glasgow Bank, had lately paid up a capital of 3,000,000/.
whereas the Bill would restrict their circulation to 300,0001.
They had branches in many of the towns of Scotland, and the
trade of that country was in such a state that those banks
would require the whole of that capital.
They must recollect
that the provident banks were of more importance to the poor
than to the rich man, as when the larger banks limited their
circulation far provident purposes, the smaller banks established
in Scotland for similar purposes comm
admitted that the definition of the circulation of Scotland set
forth in the Bill was perfectly correct. The
their
Teheßiii,
had
e
li influence
e c said, was uncalled for, and aimed at an ad libitum n
over the banking system of Scotland.—( Hear. ) The
Hon. Gentleman then referred to a passage na m
pamphlet
written by Sir James Graham, advocating not only a free
trade in corn, but in money, and opposing the interference of
the Government with the circulating medium. lie (Mr. P.
r
M. Stewart.) held that to be an excellent doctrine, and could
it to the perusal of all interested in the monetary
affairs of the United Kingdom.
Sir IL PEEL hoped the Hon. Gentleman would allow the
Bill to go into Committee. in which its details would be dis-
cussed. In bringing it forward, the Government had fairly
dealt with Scotland, and he regretted that the Hon. Gentleman
had endeavoured to raise a prejudice against the Bill, and
alarm at it, by stating that it was to be the forerunner of a
single bank of issue in that country. He (Sir R. Peel) had
never been in favour of establishing a single bank of issue in
Scotland, a 3 he knew the difficulties in the way of such an es-
tablishment. The interviews which he had had with persons
interested in Scotch banking, had made him fully
aware that there would be a most vigorous opposition
to a measure intended to effect such a change in
their monetary system.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He wished
to remove any apprehension on the part of the people of Scot-
land, by stating that the Government did not contemplate
establishing a single bank of issue ; neither did they intend to
bring forward any other measure than the one they had pro-
posed. It was clearly a case in which the whole country was
concerned, and there seas a case of res inte9rce. As regarded
the money to be advanced to the public, he thought that there
ought to be some ground for the principles on which the bank-
ing system should be conducted in Scotland. He was aware
: and in England, where it
only entertained respect-
that there was a great prejudice in Scotland in favour of the
system of paper issues and security credit; but yet, even there,
ihtnhagedrteihwe‘ev
been
srtielaiset
eipdl,e doubtsmouof
cfbhtahrh dii
ksoiunsbgyt: te m
was
not
but
also as to the mode on which
it ought to be conducted. He was not aware of the feeling
which was said to be entertained in Scotland in favour of those
accommodations that the public enjoyed, and he was rather in-
clined to think that the feeling of the public was against it
than otherwise. A distrust must naturally exist in the minds
of all who had property at stake, and unless they saw that
there was perfect security for the money which they depo-
sited, they would of course be very chary of the amount which
they contributed to what the Hon. Gentleman was pleased to
consider the general benefit. There was not in his (Sir 11,
Peel's) opinion anything to justify the assurance of the sound-
ness of the banks, simply because the paid-up capital of the
banks was all deposited for thole trading. He indeed did not
think that any paid-up capital could give that security which
the public had a right to demand. Unless the director or the
governor of the bank had a rower of converting their csireta
into cash, there was no probability of the severo
able to meet their engagements, This a principle well
recognised in comiTierce, a•;.ii a feeling had accordingly been
engenderel id the commercial world against it. The Man-
chester Chamber of Commerce had indeed so decidedly
expressed itself, that there was no doubt of I‘.,a
course which would be pursued in all th,e kgVta 'where
This was
hni)gnihmaeurcthiaoirittrya,nasnandtienntitwleedret.rin, ftlii.a2:g;reirsLtact6dit ; and he
thought that if a doubt liad been entertained at all upon the
subject the safest plan would be to allow the claims of the
whril while they were unable to help themselves, reciuked and
were entitled to the greatest cgoiktleration. This perhaps
could only be obtained by the nnie system which was pur-
sued in England, but yet ho felt that there had not been
sufficient care taken to render the system even in England so
perfect as it might be, The banks in England were ntst bound

to a certain amount of issue except so far as the amount. of
their capital might restrict them ; but he thought that in
accordance with the principles winch had always regulated ;he
people of Scotland they should have some other and further
security. It was not sufficient that the people should have
the assurance of the solvency-of their banks. but that they
should also derive from them consistently with their security
all the assurance which they derived from that quiet enjoyment
of their property to which, from the Const.tution, they were
entitled. lie therefore thought that the system which had
been proposed was not only wise in itself, but judicious from
the way in which it provided for the public benefit; and he
trusted, in consideration of these reasons, that the Hon. Gen-
tleman would withdraw his opposition.
Mr. HUME said that, in the restriction of the issues for
Scotland he differed from the Right Hon. Baronet, toto em/o.
That Scotland had flourished under the present system no one
could pretend to doubt, and he thought the people of Scotland
would be quite satisfied if they were left alone. They had been
able to provide for the general benefit hitherto, and the feeling
was decidedly, threughout the country, in favour of the system
on which they felt that their prosperity had been grounded. If
they were to adopt this system and continue it, they would save
the country at least from 200.000/. to 300,0001. a year, and at
the same time satisfy the feelings of the people at Scotland from
one end to the other.
Sir W. CLAY said that the system of Scotch currency could
not exist if Scotland were an independent nation. But his ob-
jection to the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet was, that it
attempted too much, for the impression in Scotland now was
such, that it would be exceedingly dangerous to interfere with
the small note circulation. —( Hear, hear. )
Mr. HAWES said that they must recollect that when the
Bill was read the former time it was agreed to waive all discus-
sion until the next reading He was disposed to ask now what
were the grounds on which they intended to introduce this
measure to Scotland ? Had the success of the English Bill been
such that they wished to extend its advantages to Scotland
also ? ( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, in introducing
the Bill, said they had every reason to be satisfied with the
policy and justness of that measure. He (Mr. Hawes) did not
see that the Bill of last year had proved that the expectations
of the Right Hoe. Baronet had been well founded. He would
a•ls again, if the polity of last year was such that the Right
Hon. Baronet was justified in extending it to Scotland ? And
here he could not help saying that the Scottish bankers had
evinced a right and a proper spirit, and he only wished
that the English bankers had evinced a like spirit
when the measure relating to English banking was first intro-
duced by the Right lion. Baronet. It had been said by the
Right Hon. Baronet that the banks had the power of issuing
an alma t unlimited number of notes. But what had been the
case last year ? And here he would remind the eight Hon.
Baronet that in that year there had been no lack of railway and
other speculations. The Bank of England could have issued
30,000,000/., and yet there were notes to the amount of
6,000,0001. in the Batik lying unissued. Now, surely, if the
Bank could have forced their notes into circulation, there
never was a better opportunity—never a greater inducement,
than to have done so at that time. And why did they not ?
Because they were liable at any time to be called on to give
bullion for their paper, and that was found, and would be ever
found, a sufficient check upon any undue circulation.—( Hear.)
He was surprised to hear the Hon. Member for the Tower
Hamlets, who was connected with a system of banking in this
country that was little removed from, if not equally as bad as
the American system, complain of the Scotch plan. But upon
what grounds did the Hon. Gentleman complain ? The re-
turns showed nothing to justify such an opinion, or to justify
either reproach or complaint. For a long course of Years he
found that the banking system had been in Scotland highly sa-
tisfactory to the people, and the circulation had been ample,
steady, and uniform. This clearly proved that the Scotch
banking system had been conducted with great ability, great
honesty, and great success.—( Hear, hear.) He was therefore
surprised to hear any one review the system in a tone or manner
otherwise than favourably. The fluctuation of the Bank of
England was infinitely greater than that of Scotland.
In the years 1839 and 1840, when distress was very pre-
valent, the circulation of the Bank of England fluctuated
5,000,0004, while the fluctuations of the Bank of Scotland
did not amount to mere than 2,000,000/. or in fact not much
less than the average issue.—( Hear, hear.) Then, with
regard to the failures in English and Scotch banks, he found
that the number greatly preponderated on the side of England;
and where an English bank only paid ss. in the pound, he
found that the Scotch hanks paid from 9s. 3d. to 153.
He was therefore justified in inferring from this
that the Scotch banking system was a good one. In Ireland
they were going to limit the number of banks because an alarm
prevailed in that country which was not founded in fact, and,
indeed, for which there was no cause whatever.—(Hear. )
How could they settle at the present moment what number of
banks will be necessary for the future wants of Ireland ? The
population of that country was gradually increasing, and it
was to be hoped its wealth and industry proportionably in-
creased with it. Why, then, should they be called upon to
restrict banks in Ireland, while there was every prospect that,
in a few more years, the exigencies of the country
would render an augmentation of the number of
banks absolutely necessary ? He stood upon these
facts in opposing the measure so far as it related to Ireland;
and he told the House, if they passed this Bill, they would be
establishing one of the oldest and worst systems of banking
monopoly. Upon these general grounds he stood opposed to
the Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet. In England they had a
paltry and imperfect system, and they were do.ng their best to
introduce their system into Scotland and Ireland, instead of
copying Scotland.
Mr. BAILLIE said Scotland did not wish to enjoy any privi-
lege whatever at the expense of England, but the question
before them rested upon totally different grounds. What was
the difference in the history of the banking system of the two
countries? The people of England found, from fatal expe.
rience in 1825, that their system of banking was unsound
and unsafe, and injurious, not only to this country, but to the
sister kingdom. In 1825, the numerous failures that took
place in eery part of the country clearly proved to the world,
that the country bankers of England managed their issues in a
most reckless manner, spreading periodical ruin and disaster
fc om one end of the country to the other. Those accumulating
evils clearly proved that some great alteration in the banking
system was necessary, and in 1826 the Government of
the day, acceding to the general wish of the
people, abolished the circulation of one pound notes
in England. That was a clear statement of the facts so far as
they related to England. Now, what was the case respecting
Scotland? Why a system was then established, which was
considered to be one of the very best in the kingdom. It had
passed through all the storms and changes of the last century—
thr ivah panics and internal rebellion arid foreign war. Yes,
it had passed through all these changes without ever having
raised the least suspicion or doubt in the public mind of Sect-
land, and always met its demands, and maintained its
superiority over all other systems. Although he objected to
many of the minor de:ails of the Bill he would give it his sup-
port. He hoped that some modification would be made in the
Committee, but upon the wholeihe believed that the Bill would
be both acceptable and beneficial to the Scottish people.
Mr. C. WOOD had had no intention to address the House
this night upon the subject of the Bill. But the speech of his
Hon. Friend the Member for Lambeth compelled him to state
his own opinion. It had been prophesied that the effect of the
Bill would be to prevent the free circulation of capital in Scot-
land. But the result had been entirely to the contrary.—
( Hear, hear.) The beneficial effects of the Bill had been esta-
blished before the Bill had passed. The Hon. Member went
then into several details respecting the operation of the Scotch
banks, which it would be impossible to repeat without having
the papers to which he referred. (The enunciation of the Hon.
Gentleman was rapid and indistinct, and for a great part of the
time, during which our reporter paid the most anxious and
painful attention, he was umble to collect any series of calcula-
tions which could:be made intelligible.)
The Hon. Mr. BOUVERIE ind not wish to say mush upon
this subject, but his opinion was that he did nut think the
present state of banking in Scotland warranted the interference
of the Legislature at all. The losses, and failures, and bank.
ruptcies that had attended the interference hitherto of the Le-
giclature with the banking system in England had been un-
known in Scotland ; but now the Legislature, having taken up
the question, and were about to make laws regulating the
Scotch banking system, he had no doubt but that a very short
time only would elapse before the same evils would be the con-
sequence of this interference. They had all seen that evils of
the same nature had resulted in America from legislative inter-
ference, though not to the same extent as in Englaod. On
these grounds he contended that the present system of banking
in Scotland should nut be interfered with, at least by such le-
gislative interference as that of which he had been speak'ng,
for it certainly would not be attended with beneficial results.
Mr. AWN TZ did not intend to say much upon the subject.
He would merely observe that the only thing he had to com-
plain of was, that the Right Hon. Baronet in preferring this
measure had not gone far enough. He could not see why if
one-pound notes were good for Ireland and Scotland, they
should not also be good for England ; and, on the other hand,
if they were bad for England, why should. their circulation be
permitted in Scotland ?
Mr. BARING thought that last year's Bill decided the
principle upon which they should proceed. They limited the
banks of issue in Scotland and in Ireland last year, and the
Government would not have granted the monopolies which
they had conferred, without reserving to themselves the right
of regulating the one-pound note system afterwards. He pro-
fessed himself a disciple of the old school, and would read to
them an extract from Adam Smith, in which it would be found
that his opinion was not very favourable to the advocates of the
small-note issues. The Hon. Gentleman then read the ex-
tract, and went on to say that anybody who looked to the com-
mercial prosperity of this country, which had increased so
much for the last fifty years, and asserted that that
prosperity was traceable to the banking system which existed
here, he would be laughed at. Now, he held that the same
system of reasoning applied to Scotland. It was not, he con •
sidered, a fair inferrnee that the commercial prosperity of
Scotland entirely proceeded from the banking system, which
was established there. It was rather attributable, he con-
sidered, to the prudes •e and commercial habits of the people.
There never, too, was a greater mistake than to draw in-
ferences from the fluctuations in bullion. For in the year
1837, a time of great commercial depression, when the bul-
lion in the Bank of England was reduced to five or six mil-
lions, was the diminution in the circulation of the Bank of
Scotland proportionally reduced? Quite the oontrarv, So
far from being reduced, he found there was an act
of 165,0001. And again in August, 1439, woii: h ual increase
e the bullion
was decreased 2,440,000/. in the Bank of there was
an increase (but a small one, however) ',n the circulation of the
Bank of
out Intland. He was verY "7.uch afraid that they did not
followpractice the Pen'.4les which they had laid down.
He would not, however, detain the House by repeating the ar-
guments of the Hon. Member for Halifax, and under all the
circumstances he would give the Bill his support.
Mr. ROSS thought he should best consult the feelings of the
House in adopting the example set him by the Hon. Member
for Halifax, in nut mixing up the Irish and the English part
of the question. He begged, however, to assure the House,
that he would bring the whole system of Irish banking before
them on a future occasion.
Mr. OSWALD thought that the people of Scotland would
be quite satisfied to be left alone altogether.—( A laugh.) He
had very careltslly examined the nature and bearings of the
measure, and they had no great fault to find with it in the
main. Any objection he had to make would be brought for-
ward when the question went into Committee.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.
On the first clauso being read,
Mr. BANNERMAN moved as an amendment that the
words "said period of one year preceding the first day of May
1E415," be omitted, and to substitute the following words—
" period of four weeks immediately preceding the 7th day of
December 1844."

Sir ROBERT p.REL said, that it was totally out of his
power to agroo to the proposition. He believed that the
arranucatent that had been proposed would lead to conciliation.
Hear, hear.) He believed that without disparaging the
issue of the banks of Scotland, the bank would be enabled to
provide for it without any increase of the amount of bullion.
Mr. HUME thought not one point of benefit had been pre.
sented by oy Hon. Member that could be derived from the
R\ef,sura. He thought the present measure was a breach of
kith, and they were about to restrict circulation. The very
first words of the preamble cf the Bill were at variance with
the provisions whic.b the Right Hon. Baronet had obtained
leave to introthiee, and as the whole people of Scotland were
unnitoonsly against the measure, he concurred with his Hon.
Friend the Member for Kilmarnock, in conjuring the :Go-
vernment to consult the interests of that country, although,
perhaps, by a majority, wholly ignorant of the measure and its
effects, it might be carried in opposition to their wishes.
Sir R. PEEL declared that a more unfounded charge had
never been made than that of accusing him of having broken a
pledge solemnly given to the House, of having brought forward

a Bill at variance with that which he had obtained leave to
introduce.—( Hear, hear.) He would show that, like many
other of the Hon. Member's assertions, this charge was falla-
cious and unfounded. —( A laugh.) The preamble of the Bill,
as originally propounded, recited the i.lentioal provisions iif the
prcsatit measure. He proposed to asi-ertain the averages by
Cu. issue of the month. The variations in banking in
Scotland at certain periods of the year were unquestionable and
remarkable. In the months of May and October, the circulation
was materially affected, and if the average should be taken during
those equivocal periods, the deductions would be fallacious, and,
if acted upon, dangerous. The periods, he contended, should
be thirteen lunar months from the date of the passing of the
Bill. The average issue of the Scotch banks was
3,041,3991., while 3,061,000/. was the average of the last,
and anticipated average of the next year. Such had been the
computations as originally propounded, and he would therefore
ask the House how, when the same were now repeated, he
could be charged with'breaking his pledge or introducing a Bill
at variance with his previous entmciations ?—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME would not retort the charge of inconsistency or
error, although it was singular how often the Right Hon.
Baronet had followed his (Mr. Home's) advice, alter pre-
viously and obstinately opposing it; and how often he had
changed his course and a'lopted the principles of these he charged
with ignorance and fallacy.—(Loud laughter.) He could
prove, from the pi easnble of the Bill, that restrictions were
anticipated by it—restrictions wholly at variance with the
pledge previously given.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended
that such was not the provision of the Bill. The bankers in
Scotland would not be entitled to issue more than 3,061,0001.,
unless they had a reserve of gold warranting an increase. such
a reserve they fiequently had, and the operations of the Bill
merely enjoined a registration of the excess.
Mr. DENISON contended, from a statement of a Com-
mittee of Bankers, that so far from an increase of 30,0001., it
would exceed 100,000/., making the average circulation of
Scotland 4,000,000/, instead of 3,4411,000/.
Mr OSWALD thought the sum of 3,063,0001., as provided
by the Bill, too limited for the present wants of the country.
The measure would affect the hanks in the agricultural di,-
tricts, but the great banks in Edinburgh and Glasgow would
not be influenced by it. The real s( fferers would be the
country banks in the rural districts, if the Right Him, Baronet
did not concede something to the feelings of the people of
Scotland, by a relaxation if the restricion he proposed.
Mr. ROCHE slid not see that the present measure was
called for, as to the former banking system in Scotland that
country was indebted for all the good she had achieved, up to
that moment, in trade, commerce, and general improvement.
Sir G. CLERK defended the restriction of the Bill relative
to the issues, and if the principle of a certain amount of gold in
pi °portion to issues was to be maintained, he could not see
how the amount of specie could be reduced.
Mr. FOX MAULE corroborated the statement of Mr.
Oswald, as to the influence of the Bill on the agricultural
banks, and cited several banks in Scotland that would be inju-
riously affected by it. They should pause ere they changed a
system which had produced such great advantages during the
last 120 years.
Mr. P. M. STEWART wished that the principle of ave-
rage circulation was extended to Scotland, for he felt conident
that it would answer quite as well there as in England. The
returns made were the minimum returns of the circulation of
Scotland, and the Scotch banks ought to be allowed to amend
those returns; and the fair adjustment of this point would be
to allow the Scotch banks to amend their returns, and ob-
tain the fair average, which would be four millions sterling.
It was a motion of great moment, and the practical effect of
the measure would be, in many instances, the limiting the
metropolitan banks to a very low circulation. They must call
in the small banks, which would seriously injure the popula-
tion of the rural district. Was it worth while that they
should risk such an important interest by refusing that which
was only a fair working out of the principle of the Bill?
An How. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, ob-
served, that in considering these twelve months, from which
the average was taken in eight cases out of ten, a maximum
average had been given to the circulation of England. And
therefore he would say that, whether from accident, or any
other cause, the English banks, instead of being placed in
a worse situation than the Sco:ch, were placed in a much bet-
ter position. He hoped the right Hon. Baronet would allow
the Scotch Banks to amend their returns.
Sir R. PEEL said the English bankers had asked to have
that period given them which would furnish a maximum re-
turn, but it was refused to them, and lie hoped the House would
not BOW decide upon subjecting the people of England to dis-
advantages to which the people of Scotland were not subject.
The truth was the measure was more favourable to Scotland
than the English measure was to England.—( Hear, hear.)
There was this difference between them, that whatever amount
of gold the bankers held in this country, they were not
allowed to increase the issue. He hoped that the
Irish Members would not, on this occasion, join with
the Scotch—(Loud laughter)—but consider the case of
Scotland as separate from England. The Scotch bankers
were not entitled to greater advantages than the bankers of
this country. He relied upon the general sense of the House
for maintaining a proposal which was not unjust, but
which, if erroneous or unjust, was certainly unjust in favour
of Scotland.

Sir R. FERGUSON said, that during the last year there
had been increased prosperity in Ireland, and he would im-
plore the House not to allow such a Bill to pa-s as would put
restrictions on their currency.
Mr. MUNTZ agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman at
the head of the Government that the present measure was
decidedly favourable for the currency of Scotland, but he would
have wished it to have been extended on a more liberal plan.
The House then divided, when there appeared--
For the amendment 59
Against it
Majority against the amendment —2s
The clause was then agreed to.
Oo clause 2 being proposed, a desultory discussion took place,
in which the Honourable Mr. Bouverie, iUir. Redington,
Mr. Charles Wood, took part.
The clause having been put,
Mr. DENNIS TOUN said that it was understood by
bankers generally, that the Government would not press this
clause, and he should therefore beg leave to move a verbal
amendment.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment 3l
Against it 6O
Majority against it
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses 3,4, 5,6, and 7, were passed without any dis-
cussion.

On clause 8 being put by the Chairman,
Mr. F. MAULE said he had an amendment to move upon
this clause, and he should, therefore, move that the Chairman
do report progress.
The House having resumed, the CHAIRMAN reported ac-
cordingly, and obtained leave to sit again on Monday next.
The other orders of the day having been disposed of, the
House adjourned at One o'Clock
PARLI

.ANIENTARY BUSINESS.
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 4.
RAILWAY
Select Committee on Group PP., postponed from Monday,
June 9, till Thursday, June 12, at half after twelve.
Select Committee on Group QQ.
Earl Shelburn discharged from attendance on the Com-
mittee.

The Hon. G. Cavendish (North Derby),
selected, and added to the Committee.
Select Committee on Group PP.
The Hon. G. Cavendish discharged from attendance on the
Committee.
Earl Slielburn (Caine),
selected, and added to the Committee.
Select Committee on Group Z.
Mr. Rice Clayton discharged from attendance on the Con,.
mittee.
Select Committee on Group RR.
Mr. Cochrane discharged from attendance on the Com-
mittee.
Mr. Rice Clayton (Aylesbury),
selected and added to the Committee.
Select Committee on Group QQ,
Manchester and Birmingham Railway (Macclesfield Branch
Extension) Bill,—Referred to the Committee.
Order, referring Manchester and Leeds (Oldham Branches,
and Manchester South Junction and Altrincham Railway
Bills, to the Committee, discharged.
Select Committee on Group RR.
Manchester South Junction and Altrincbam Railway Bill,—
referred to the Committee.
NOTICES GIVEN,
'IHE PRIVATE BILL OFFICE.
Monkland and Kirkintilloch Railway,—Report, Friday,
June 6.
Clydesdale Junction Railway,—Report, Friday, June 6.
Caledonian Railway,—Report, Friday, June 6.
Glasgow, Garnkirk, and Coatbridge Railway,—Report,
Friday, June 6.
Great North of England and Richmond littilway,—Third
reading, Friday, June 6.
London a.rieGreenwichßailway,—Report to be considered,
Friday, June 6.
Guildford Junction Railway,—A clause and amendment to
be proposed, on third reading, Thursday, June 5.
Belfast and Ballymena Railway,—Third reading, Friday,
June 6.
London, Worcester, and South Staffordshire Railway,—
Committee on petition for additional provision, Friday, June 6.
Select Committee on Group AA, adjourned till Friday,
June 6, at twelve,
Select Committee on Group FF., adjourned till Friday,
June 6, at twelve.

Epping RailWaY,—Committee on petition, adjourned till
Friday, June 6.
Select Committee on Group PP., postponed till Thursday,
June at half after twelve.
-

.is royal Highness Prince Albert has fixed Sa-
turday, the 28th inst., at three o'clock in the afternoon, for laying
the foundation-stone of the new hospital for Marylebone and Pad
dington.

MORTALITY IN THE METRopous.—There has
been a considerable increase in the deaths during the last
week, the total number being 905, exceeding that of the pre-
ceding week by 95. The incrcase is chiefly from diseases of the
lungs and other organs of respiration. The number of violent
deaths was 29, of which 7 were suicides, and 4 from burns
and scalds. Sixteen died of small-pox, at the following
ages :—Four under 1 year ; seven 1-3 ; three 3-5 ; one 5 ;
and one 17 years.

RAILWAY BILLS IN THE HOUSE OF LORDS.—Three
Railway Bills only have been brought up from the House of
Commons to the House of Lords, viz., the Chester and Holy-
head, the Leeds qnd Dewsbury, and the Huddersfield and
Sheffield Junction. They have been read a first time,
and referred to the Standing Orders Committee, which met
again yesterday. It sits twice a week, on Tuesday and Friday.
The Standing Orders Committee will hear evidence to investigate
whether the standing orders of the House have or have not been
complied with. If they come to the former decision, then the Bills
will be read a second time, and should there be any opposition to
them, petitions signifying such is the case will be presented to the
House of Lords. The next step required is for the Bills and
petitions, if any, to be referred to the General Committee ap-
pointed for the session, and that Committee w ill appoint a Select
Committee of five Peers, before which Committee the evidence
will be submitted. When that is gone through, a report will be
made to the House, favourable or unfavourable, as the case may
be. Should the standing orders prove net to have been complied
with, then a report will be made to the House stating that fact, and
directions will be given by the House as to the future proceedings.
THEATRE ROYAL, DUIILIN.—TWO welcome fa-
vourites made their re-appearance in our theatre on Saturday and
last evenings. Madame Celeste and Mr. Webster have come back
for a short engagement among us, and on last evening displayed
the same excellence in their respective walks of art as had pre-
viously won for them such hearty applause in our theatre. The
entertainments of last night consisted of The Mysterious Stranger,
in which Madame Celeste had various opportunities for the exercise
of her very versatile powers. The piece is one of those melo-
dramas, presenting scenes of Parisian life in various classes of so-
ciety, all the changes of which turn out to be no more than a
dream. In The Pretty Girls of S tilberg, a little trifle, already
favourably known to the pubic, Celeste and Webster were equal to
their former excellence; nothing could be better than the effect
produced by the latter where he assumes the air and chess of Na-
poleon. The resemblance was as startling as if one of his portraits
had walked from its frame. The amusements of the evening were
terminated by another little French piece, entitled Marie Ducange,
in which these accomplished actors exhibited their usual and well-
known skill and graceful powers.—Freeman's Journal.

RAILWAY COMMITiT.

(YESTERDA V.)

,Ul'
LONLO2:, CIIATHA79I, AND NOILTIE

LINE.

The Committee resumed the consideration of this line this
morning at twelve o'clock, by the examination of Mr. Hatt, Messrs.
Hal's superintendent in London. He spoke as to the extent of
their business, and the impossibility of removing any portion of
their premises to a greater distance from the intended line of
railway.

Mr. Monk, foreman of Messrs. Hall's mills, proved the precau.
tion used to avoid accidents by explosion of the gunp.mder, or the
materials used in its manufacture. He related several accidents ot
a serious nature which have occurred within the last twenty years,
in which logs of timber and fragments of machinery have not only
been thrown from immense distances, but have even been imperil.
nent enough to trespass on the premises of Messrs. Hall's neigh.
hours. He stated, also, that on one occasion windows had been
broken at the distance of a mile from the explosion.
Other witnesses were called to confirm the above evidence.

Mr. 'Wilt., of Dartford, spoke as to the explcsion which had
taken OAT at hi, mills on Monday last, when pieces of timber
were scattered to the extent of 130 yards. He had a film convic-
tion that the proi.osecl railway would be extremely dangerous to the
public and to ‘lessrs. Hall's mills.

Captain Crawley and Sr. Austin spoke as to the same facts, and
Mr. W. Hall, oneof the petitioners, was called, but not ex:trained.
Mr. Waller spoke as to the effect of certain explosions some
years since. At one time fifty horses belonging to his lather had
been killed.

Mr. Mkusiewt:Tima then said that the ease for the petitioneill
had concluded, with the exception of Colonel Cockburn's evidence.
The Committee then adjourned until twelve o'clock tomorrow.

GROUP 88.

THE WATER.POILD, WEXFORD, wrczLow,

AND DUBLIN 7iLAILWAY.

The Committee met to-day at twelve o'c:ock, Mr. Colquhoun in
the chair, when the examination of witnesses was resumed.
Mr. Gibbons' examination continued—His examination com.
menced on the gradients, of which the following is an abstract,
commencing at Dublin, end going regularly a ong the line :—One
gradient of I in 50, one of 1 in 84, one oft in 55, one of 1 in 70,
one of 1 in 69, one of I in 84, one of 1 in 91, one of 1 in 1(13,
one of I in 107, one of 1 in 103, one of 1 in 104, one of I in 107,
one of 1 in 53, one of 1 in 104, one of 1 in 95, one of 1 in 103,
one of 1 in 98, one of 1 in 96, one of 1 in 9:4, one
of 1 in 105, one of 1 in 106, one of 1 in 98, one of
1 in 105, one of 1 in 94, one of 1 in 103, one of I in
100—total, 27 gradients, all of this severe character. The gradients
were made on the supposition that the atmospheric principle would
be applied. The gradients could easily be reduced, provided loco-
motives were to be used. He estimated that the cost, providing
the atmospheric principle was applied, would b. 10,0001. a mile for
a single line of rails. The worst curve was one in twenty chains.
He had b2en a county surveyor of Wexford for many years. He
knew the country through which the Carlow and Wexford line
passed, and there was very little traffic on it. He had examined
the tables and estimates of Sir John M‘Niell, and he thought them
much too low. The price of land he considered underrated. He
considered that, if they went before a jury of Wexford to assess,
the value of these 370 acres, they would be valued at double the
amount set down.

The witness was next examined in detail respecting the cuttings,
embankments, bridges, &c., on the line, and the explanation of
these, with the cross-examination which they elicited, occupied the
Committee till four o'clock.

The Committee then adjourned till tomorrow at eleven o'cicck.

GROUP EE.
SCOTTISH MIDLAND RAILWAY.
The Committee met to-day at the usual hour, Mr. F. Bating in
,he chair.

1 he case far the Bill having closed yesterday,
Mr. ANDitEws proceeded to address the Committee on behalf Of
the Duke of Athol, the Earl of Mansfield, and other landed pro.
prietors against the Bill. In the course of his speech he said that
the feeling of that part of the country with regard to the line had
heen misrepresented, that the estimates were incorrect. and that
the calculation of traflie was grossly exaggerated, for that instead
of 30,000/. per annum being realised, the real traffic of the district
would not produce more than 7,0001. After commenting at great
length upon the several points of the district, the Learned Gentleman
concluded by calling on the Committee to reject the Bill.
Mr. JkMES next addressed the Committee, on the part of Lady
Willoughby D'Ercsby. He maintained that the traffic would not
be sufficient to support the line, and that the wants of the district
would be better supplied by the' Aberdeen Railway.
The room was teen cleared.
On our return, the CiI•IRMLN said that the Committee had
decided the preamble of the Bill to be proved.
The Committee then proceeded to consider the clauses of the
Bill.

The several clauses were read and agreed to, and the Chairman
was instructed to report the Bill to the House.
The Committee then adjourned, having terminated its labours,
this being the ►ast Bill in the group.

lit) UP F.
The Committee met again this morning at twelve o'clock, the
Right Hon. F. Shaw, Chairman. The Committee proceeded with
the clauses of the Great Western Bill for

THE OXFORD, WORCESTER, AND WOL—
VERHAMPTON ILAILWAIn
Mr. 13tTag6 appeared in supr.ort of the clauses of the Bill.
Clauses up to Nu. 24 were agreed to with a few verbal alterations.
On clause 25, which tel--tes to the nature of gauge, and enacts—.
" And whereas plans lind sections of the railway, showing the line
and levels theVof, and also books of reference, containing
the names br the owners, lessees, and occupiers, or reputed
owners LU'd lessees and occupiers, of the lands through which
the sane is intended to pass, have been deposited with the clerks
of the peace of the counties of Bettis, Oxford, Worcester,
Gloucester, Stafford, and Wilts, and with the clerk of the peace for
the city of ‘Vorcesti.r ; be it enacted, that, subject to the provi-
sions in this and the said recited Acts contained, it shall be lawful
for the said Company to make and maintain the said railway and
works, in the lino and upon the lanes delineated on the said plans,
and described in the said hooks of reference, and to enter upon, take,
and use such of the sai . lands as shall be necessary for such pur.
po,e," an amendment was moved by—
Mr. LOCKHART, " to restrict the guage to the width of 4 feet.
S i 5 inches ;" which is the width of the narrow guage.
The amendment, on a division, was negatived, no other Hop.
Member having supported it.

The remaining unopposed clauses having been gone through,
Mr. Sergeant WRANGHAM, on behalf of Mr. Parrott, proprietor
of part of the river Haven navigation, submitted that the pro-
moters should not cross the river at Evcsham without compensa-
tion to the proprietor. The promoters would cross by
two bridges, and unless those bridges were made
at such an elevation as wi.uld not cause the vessels passing
under the bridges to lower their masts, the Committee should fix a
remuneration for the loss which would be sustained by the loss of
traffic the delay of those vessels would cause to his clients.
Mr. Brunel said he would by morning fix an elevation.
This was agreed to, and the point was postponed.
Mr. DANIEL said he had to ask power for the Birmingham and
Gloucester Railway traffic to go on the Oxford and Wolverhampton
line from Stoke to Abbots Wood. He would, however, inform
the promoters that the clause, if granted, would not prevent the
Bill being opposed in all its stages.

Mr. TALBOT thought his Learned Friend was very modest to
ask a clause, and then in the same breath, hot and cold, tell his
c:ients that, clause or no clause, he would oppose the Bill. He was
satisfied to have a clause framed by the next day, which would be
at a reduced rate of tolls to the Birmingham and Gloucester
Company. It was, however, unfair to ask such power, and then
announce a determined opposition to the Bid.

_ . ..
The CHAIRMAN—I think it is almost unfair.
The matter was then postponed.
THE OXFORD AND RUGBY RAILWAY
BILL.

---
The first 14 clauses of this Bill were agreed to without amend.
menu, and the Committee adjourned to twelve o'clock tomorrow.

GROUP GG.
SCOTCH RAILWAYS.
GLASGOW JUNCTION RAILWAY.
The Committee en this group, consisting of Mr. Evans (Chair.
man), Mr. Newdegate, Mr Miles, Mr. Muntz, and Lord Grimston,
met at twelve o'clock in the Sessions House, Westminster.
The promoters of the scheme called John Leadbetter, an exten..
sive manufacturer, and Dean of Guild of Glasgow, who said that his
office constituted him the principal member of the Chamber of
Commerce, and he was therefore cognizant of the proceedings of
that body. The consideration of the present project had not come
before them in a formal manner, and he was not prepared to say
what the private opinion of individual members might be. He was
also a trustee of the River Clyde, and that trust had come to A re•
solution sanctioning the laying of rails along the quay. He con-
ceived that the proposed junction would iacrease the traffic of the
Glasgow and Ayr Railway, and also benefit the harbour trade.
Cross- examined by Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD—He had an interest
in the Edinburgh and Glasgow, and in the Ayr Railway, both of
which lines would be benefited by this junction, but he had a
greater interest itt the Glasgow Harbour, and if the shipping inte.
rest were disadvantageously affected, his less would be greater than
his former gains could repay.
Mr. Charles Rees, Surveyor-General of the Scotch Post-offices,
spoke to the security which unbroken transmission would give to
the Irish mails, which would pass by this junction to Portpatrick.
Mr. George Mills, merchant, Glasgow, was called to prove th•
traffic tables, but his examination was adjourned by consent till to.
morrow.

Mr. Miller, C.E., then entered into details showing how he in-
tended carrying the line across the streets of Glasgow by a viaduct,
and in some cases under, by a tunnel. The line
would cross the Clyde by a bridge of three arches, the estimated
cost of which was 30,000/. The total cost was 280,000/. It was
proposed to throw out a branch from the main line to communi-
cate with the Broomielaw. The estimates were fully sufficient for
the construction of the line.

The Committee adjourned at four o'clock till to .morrow.

GROUP K.
NORWICH AND BRANDON LINE.

The consideration of this Bill was resumed this morning by the
evidence of

Mr. G. P. Bidier,C.E., who was examined by Mr. GIRDEN—III en.
gineer to the Norwich and Brandon projected railway, and has bad
the plans and sections of that and the rival Eastern Extension line
submitted to him. The distance from London to Cambridge by
the former project will be 58 miles 12 chains; from Cambridge to
Brandon, 30 miles, 26 chains; and from Brandon to Norwich, 37
miles 61 chains, making a total from Norwich to London of 126}
miles, which would be reduced to 1231 in case the
Farringdon.street terminus were accorded and adopted.
From London to Attleborough the distance will be 110 miles, and
from Attleborough to 'Wyndham six miles, making in all from
London to Wyndham 116 miles. From Wyndham to Dereham
the length of the line will be 11 miles, and from the latter town
to the metropolis 127 N miles ; from Attleborough to Diss 1034,
and from Dereham to Diss 271,4 miles. The gradients on the
when must
they have e x
reported s t d
e
Norwich and Brandon were unusually favourable, anu as compare
with the Eastern Counties Extension, were preferable to a palpable
idnegrtehee ;
mindsand of a gtrheaet
Board of Trade
misapprehension
in favour of the former. The gradients on the Eastern
Counties Extension were highly objectionable; for 1,000 yards
the decline was lin 88, and for 400 yards 1 in 96. The conse-
quence of such steep gradients was the difficulty, if not impose-
bility, of adopting the customary engines to the rail. The cure es
on the Norwich and Brandon were unexceptionably small, an d
every other engineering point was equally easy. There are no
planes or tunnelling on the Thetford Deviation, the length of which
will be 5f miles. The steepest gradient is I in 218. Two high.
ways, one on the road from Wockham to Thetford, and the oth
between the latter town and Wetton.lane, to be crossed, but n
engineering difficulties of any consequence are experienced.
By Mr. RICARDO—The difference between the levels of Dereha
and Wyndham is 40 feet, the level at the latter town being I
much higher than at Dereham.
Cross.examined by Mr. CALVERT—The traffic tables have be 4 n
taken by actual observation, parties being placed oft the Dereha
road, just out of Norwich ; the Hingham road, Barford, Shi
ton, and other points. Has taken credit for the whole
the market at Dereham in his traffic tables. There are a I e
coaches running between Dereham and Norwich, and one to t Le
metropolis. ihe distance between Dereham and London by Lyn
is shorter by five miles than that by Wyndham ; nevertheless he co
ciders that traffic will go up, n the latter in greaterproportion than
former. The plans and sections of the Eastern Counties Extnid
project, as deposited in the office of the clerk of the peace, are ve
inaccurate, though he cannot state the extent or particulars of t
errors. [This witness, in the comae of a protracted dire
'nation, to which the whole of the day's sitting w a
Wire
the exception of Mr. Wodebouse's evidence, exclusi

devoted,
sect.on3

r'
r-

branch of the

tre rep

Ither, Lord V

into the iletalis of distance, traffic, plans, and
rious brnnahes (integral or independent) of both
that already given:

whatever.]

Wodehouse, examined by Mr.
filled that office for
debouse, is an assent

h and Brandon line.

;rent advantages on the dis-