The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-18 00:00:00

~~

it of went
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ill proccd
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lenanly
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ions to the
ch of F 1:"
laws coal'
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people!
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ay mind to
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t difficutti
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ry opinion
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ie principle
ed by 10
ed, it must
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ral part e,
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, therefore,
ed Church'
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ited, under
g given uo
Lord pre"
rest Lag'''
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re could
nters Wet?
I am not

ember the
as enacted,

)tion of it'

of the
nd of fir'
years t.)e-
of told
le change°
able Loris
that such

a Bill as that proposed should be ever received into their
Lordships' House, even under the ids a of making amend-
ments on it. The Bill was said in stand on the principle
set forth in its preamble. But what was that principle?
Why, that it was expedient—expedient !—a word used by
men when they had nothing else to say. But their Lord-
shiPs ought not to be satisfied with the bare assertion that
such a measure wag expedient, but look, and take care that
the Provisions of the Bill proved the expediency of it.
Then; looking at the provisions, they contained no such
proof; for as to the declaration, it would be more con-
sistent with the dignity of the House to bring in a Bill at
°nee for the unqualified repeal of the Test Laws, than this
Bill, every clause of which militated against the Constitu-
tion; but what was it expedient to do? To repeal the
Sacramental Test. Now, if it could be shown to him
that the intended substitute for that Test was a sufficient
defence of the Church,, it would be all right, and he would
require nothing more ; but while he was on this part of
the subject, he must say that he had never heard more mis-
" Presentations on any subject than on the Sacramental
Test. But to go on to the other clauses of the Bill, the
next ran thus :._,, Whereas, the Protestant Church
of these realms, is established and inviolate." How ?
By the existing laws. If thus the existing laws
constitute the defence, and contribute to the inviola-
el% of the Church, surely the repealing of those laws
could not be the way to keep that Church established by
laws—nor was the removal of her defences the way to pre-
serve her inviolate. Then, as to the proof that the decla-
ration was a sufficient defence in place of the Test Laws, he
eelisved it was sequind by the existing law, of persons
taking offices in the Universities of Scotland, to snake a
scat of confession of faith ; but he was sure some of those
l'earned and Rev. Persons must have found considerable
"'faculty in making that confession of faith, when he re-
)4e-inhered the opinions they acknowledged in their petitions
~," this question. But what was the substitute for the
Sacramental Test ? A simple declaration. Instead of
/tutiting the taker of office describe himself as belonging to
letne sort of religion—whether a Unitarian or Catholic, or
it 'cree Thinker, it did not require him even to say—he bad
°IIIY to answer that he was of the Christian faith ; neither
did it call on him to observe the declaration by such phrases
4 " lam a Christian," or " as I stand in the presence of
'Y,., God." The confidence to be reposed in the proposed de-
'tar, ation did not rest upon the faith of the Christian, or on
tne confirmation of any faith whatever. He had never been
tuore surprised than when he heard the Noble Lord
Who opened the present discussion with such great
ability, inform their Lordships that while the decla-
ration was to he extended, not merely to Corporate
'lees, but to all offices of trust and emolument under
the Crown, the Bill left it entirely to the King to say,
with respect to these latter functionaries, whether his Ma-
•F'ty would require such a declaration or not. He could
not but object to the provisions Of such a Bill, the object
of Which was to take away the sacramental test, as would
ell? Pear from the preamble, merely on the ground of expe-
s„leaeh and to substitute in its place a declaration, which,
- some instances, might or might not be taken, according
to the
will of the Sovereign. The principle of the pro-
'esed law was to destroy the Sacramental Test for the
ot:Poae of substituting this declaration, and except their
~ niships approved of that substitution they ought not to
e'°4lent even to the second reading of the Bill. He differed
Propriety
from all he had read and heard respecting the
irapriety of omitting to maintain that great principle of the
„leustitution, namely, that the Church of England was not
og '2stablishment erected for mere p
purposes of convenience,
essentially and inseparably a art of the State. He
ntended that the Sacramental Test was well calculated to
effect that object, and it signified not what they substituted,
It so long as what was substituted was of inferior effi-
.,.e
- Y. Further, he maintained that, in compliance with
"ar existing Constitution, the Church of England must be
4511iPPOrted, and could best be supported by the admission
its Members alone to offices of trust and emolument.—
neh had been the principle of the Constitution of this
th~, trY for ages. Their Lordships should take good care
in,` they did not disunite those whom the Constitutioli.ad
-Red ingether ; and if they did anything towards oin-
4fg them, they should be equally careful to use some sort
tr'neeement, and enable the Church and State Establish-
Port,M to protect each other by mutual service and snp-
a„,,The ground of expediency set forth in the pre-
a-71e to that Bill he could not help thinking afforded
the principle on which to legislate. He objeCted to
L"P repeal of laws hitherto preserved with so much
Tiety and care as the Corporation and Test Acts.—
e Corporation was an Act that did not require any
Man to take the sacrament. He meant, it did not impose
4Pon him that duty against his inclination ; it only said,
Nshall not be elected a member of a corporation except
,/%4 the twelve months antecedent to your application fur
4, 'e you shall have received the sacrament. The fact
eials, its provisions were directed towards members of the
iipt_lrch of England, and to them originally was the Act
the to apply. The Test Act required the taking of
wil. alerament on the acceptance of office. The inference
h„.', that if such provisions for the security of the Church
a": not been necessary they would not hare been made.—
slot lllPPostal no Noble Lord would maintain that it was
pre desirable to have an Established Church; and he was
ss,dllred to oontend that the necessary effect of the propo-
s seeaettnent must be to weaken its foundation, and con-
,,Nl:ently to militate against its permanency. He would
sea' dture to say, if Noble Lords would take the trouble to
the the petitions presented to Parliament on the subject of
sit,-.,_'orporation and Test Acts, they would hardly find a
,4,,,,e sentence in one of them which their Lordships
pad be willing to 'affirm in the preamble of an Act of
tit meat like the present. The tendency of those peti-
the evinced hostility towards the Established Church, at
44 'ante time that they denounced all religious tests as evil
sm Pernicious. On referring to one of them, be found it
R °lined that the Church of England had its foundation in
thtn,e--that it derived the sources of its origin from Hea-
sseettlarn and Popery—and that it wielded the sword of per-
satutitetn ; together with other statements of a similar
Istot.,,rd LANSDOWNE said the petition referred to by the
Loy le and Learned Lord had been presented not to their
41,4,hips, but to the Douse of Commons.
Ararut Earl of ELDON, in continuation, said, the Noble
pnie.was probably correct in his statement ; but as the
of the In question had been not merely laid on the table
to hie ether House, but printed, he considered it competent
peti,:e to advert to it. However, the sentiments of the
the hen were so extravagant and exaggerated, that perhaps
Laruldir' were not deserving of attention.—(Hear, from Lord
vols„,:4vne).—Rut he looked to the sober principle in-
osigi'si in the present measure. The Corporation Act was
agahlii‘all directed against the: Sectaries--the Test Act
tends the Papists.—The Test Act had never been in-
thatltn operate against the Dissenters ; yet it did happen
Char'eth Acts operated against them. In the reign of
Whn" IL, the Act was relative to the Dissenters ; but
that-„theY Caine to the Toleration Act, there was no doubt
both .le Test and Corporation Act was directed against
list,•l Be alluded to the law passed in the reign of Wil-
fe, 'lLwhich it was evident that the Acts re-
pa4Led to had been directed both against Dissenters and
ti, P'qs4 They went on in silent operation till some time in
The_reign of Geo. 11., when the Aet:of Indemnity was passed.
tilijLegislature passed Act after Act to enlarge the:tiine for
„tuilag the Test. It was evident that Parliament was anxi-
oti.tu have it taken ; and with a view of accomplishing its
osfi't, it extended the time within which persons holding
it ‘e4 could comply with the law. It had been %aid, that
astiaa an extraordinary thing to go on passing Indemnity
sheyYear after year, instead of at once abolishing the law which
11,,,tvere intended for the time to supersede. However,by
yea'se,sintained that those Indemnity Acts, Passed year
re, were neither more nor less than acknowledgments and
sat-illutions on the part of the Legislature, that the Corpo-
desism4 and Test Acts ought not to be dispensed with.. _ He
Year to know whether the passing of these Acts from
i' t° Yea was
arli._ r not rather confirmatory
of the opinion of
it Ought 00t that the law should not be repealed, than that
(ies:e' to be abolished ? Forty years ago he,
tio el his firm propriety--a convic-
n saiie, • . rin conviction of their proprie .
in conse-
repeqoi n still rested on his mind—had voted against the
at a tin, these Acts. Ile had the pleasure of thus voting
"at"a, e When a great many Noble Lords whom, he then
'''"n, 1,..... '4'll him, and taking a part in the present discuf
same ~t."e not born ; and he believed he might say the
Measis:", e of the Rev. Prelates who now supported the
existes 'Wore their Lordships, but who then, if they
titled the all,, were in a state of infancy, which hardly en-
the qutni 10 form a judgment on the subject. In 1787
l'arlian44 was brought forward in the other House of
ohs/,' ,and was rejected by a majority of that
-e maioris- '789 the question was again discussed, when
`Me mere Y against it was 20 ; but in 1790, on its being
1,101 test, b linttoduced, its opents out-numbered its sup- '
erWard 87. the question had not since been brought
it was re; 4til the present occasion. The majority by which
eonsisersleted in 1790 was net extraordinary when it was
sispporksure
atpat its opponents, who then constituted the
for laid our happy Establishment, found mines had
'_(,), the undermatch to explode them. If any joy could be felt at
about th`2Simate events that occurred in other countries
these
ve!!efieriod, it arose from the consideration that
tempts
~`_lt,e rendered Englishmen more alive to the at-
ingly th`"a4g, to
struction disjoin the Church and State, and accord-
e_arliarnent of that day voted to prevent the de-
twet,
our f the alliance which had hitherto subsisted he-
eatahlishmente. What we, to prevent Corpo-

rations from being made up entirely of members of the
Church of Rome, if nothing more than the declarations
now suggested was required ? His sentiments re-
mained the same as they had been formerly on that
subject; if lie had changed his ;opinions—and he al-
most wished he could, so much did he respect many
of the advocates of the present Bill—he should have
felt it due to himself, to his country, and to his
God, to confess his error. But he had examined the matter
deliberately, and in detail, for the purpose of ascertaining
whether he had been wrong or not ; the result of his in-
vestigation was, that he had been right; and he could not
then consent to give up the Constitution of the country
and to sacrifice it, as well as the Church Establishment, to
the extent that the present Bill proposed. He could not
do this ; it must be the work of others. Be these within
or without the Church it mattered not to him. His prayer
to God was, that the individuals who promoted that mea-
sure might have afterwards the satisfaction of thinking,
that as they intended 110 mischief to the Church, no mischief
had ensued. Sure he was, that they meant no mischief to
our establishment in the Chuach or State at that moment,
and for his own part, he should feel that he acted mast un-
pardonably, were he to say that they were actuated by any
such motive. But at the same time, that he gave them
credit for sincerity, lie also claimed a similar allowance,
and he intended those Noble and Reverend supporters of
the Bill no disrespect when he solemnly said, as he then
did from his heart and soul, Not-Content to the pre-
sent Bill.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—I do not wish to
trouble your Lordships with my opinions on the present
measure in this stage of the proceedings, and it is probable
I might have reserved what I intended to offer for a future
opportunity, had it not been for the statements of the Noble
and Learned Lord who has just sat down, relative to the
line of conduct originally adopted by Government, when
the present Bill was first brought forward in the other
House of Parliament. , It is certainly true, as the Noble
and Learned Lord bas stated, that my Right Hon. Friends
in that House did oppose the Bill when it was first intro •
duced to their notice. The principle on which they op-
posed the measure was, that although they did not approve
entirely of the existing law on the subject in question, yet
they had found it to conduce so much to the advantage of
Church and State for many years, without impairing the
religious peace of the country—a peace which I may ven-
ture to say-has been enjoyed by this country in a greater
degree than by any other similarly circumstanced with
which we are acquainted—that they conceived we might
risk the loss of our present advantages if that system under
which those advantages had been attained and preserved
should be inconsiderately abrogated. That principle it was
on which they opposed the Bill in the first instance.
Afterwards, however, on finding that a large majority of
the House of Commons agreed to the Bill, and that many
who opposed it, opposed it on grounds not applicable to
the measure now before your Lordships, my Right
Non. Friends adopted the measure with an amendment,
which in their opinion afforded ample security to the
Church, at the same time that the Bill itself, as modified,
appeared to them to be calculated, so far from impairing,
to improve and continue the religious peace which this
country has so long enjoyed. On that principle it was,
my Lords, that the measure, which had been originally
opposed by my Right Hon. Friends connected with Go-
vernment in the other House, afterwards received their
concurrence and support. I fully agree with my Noble
Friend that the security of the Church of England, and
the union existing between it and the State, depend nei-
ther on the law about to be repealed by the present Bill
nor upon the provisions of this measure itself. That union
and security, which we must all desire to see continued,
depend upon the oath taken by his Majesty, to which we
are all, in our respective stations, parties—and not only on
that oath, but on the Act of Settlement, and the different
Acts of union from time to time agreed to ; all of which
provide for the intimate and inseparable union of Church
and State, and for the security of both. The question is,
what security does the existing system of laws, as they
now stand, afford the Church Establishment? My
Lords, I am very dubious as to the amount of security
afforded through the means of a system of exclusion from
office, to be carried into effect by a law which it is
necessary to suspend by an annual Act, that admits
every .man into office whom it was the intention of
the original framers of that law to exclude.—(Hear,
hear.) It was perfectly true, it was not the intention
of those who brought in that suspension law originally,
that Dissenters from the Church of England should be per-
mitted to enter into Corporations under its provisions. The
law was intended to relieve those whom time or circum-
stances had rendered unable to qualify themselves according
to the system Government devised. It has also been said,
that the Dissenters availed themselves of the relaxation of
the law, for the purpose of getting into Corporatisns, and
this the law allowed. What security then, I ask, my
Lords, is to be found in the existing system? So far from
Dissenters being excluded by the Corporation and Test
Acts from all Corporations—so far is this from being the
fact—that it must be well known to some of your Lord-
ships some Corporations are absolutely and entirely in the
possession of Dissenters. Can you suppose, my Lords,
that the repeal of laws so inoperative as these can afford
any serious obstacle to the perfect security of the Church,
and the permanent union of that establishment with the
State? The fact is, that the existing laws have not
only failed completely, in answering their intended
purpose, but are anomalous and absurd—anomalous in
their origin, absurd in their operation. If a man were
asked the question at his election to any corporate
office, whether be had received the Sacrament of the
Church of England, and if he said " No," then he
lost every vote that had been tendered on his behalf, and
there was an end of his election ; but if, on the contrary,
by accident or design, he got in without the question rela-
tive to the sacrament being put to him, then the votes ten-
dered for him were held good, and his election valid—so
that no power could remove him from the office which he
held. I ask the Noble and Learned Lord is there aov se-
curity in that ? My Noble Friend says that the original
intention of the framers of these Acts was that the sacra-
ment should not be taken by Dissenters ; but the law re-
quires that a man on entering into any Cerporation shall
receive the sacrament without regard to Isis religious belief.
Thus, my Lords, an individual whose object it is to get
into a particular office, may feel disposed, naturally enough,
to take the sacrament before his election, merely as a mat-
ter of form, and thus a sacred rite of our Church is pros-
tituted to a shameful and scandalous purpose. I confess,
my Lords, I should have opposed this Bill if I thought it
calculated to weaken the securities at present enjoyed by
the Church. I consider the opposition offered in the first
instance by my Right Hon. Friends in the other House of
Parliament as arising out of a desire to preserve the religi-
ous peace of the country, at the same time that they se-
cured the integrity of the establishment. My Right Hon.
Friends at first contemplated the existing system as hav-
ing given religious peace to this country for forty years.—
I repeat that during forty years that peace has
never been disturbed, nor the question which is
now before your Lordships agitated. But, my
Lords, the subject of security and of religious peace
was fully discussed in the other House, through
which the Bill now before your Lordship was carried by
a large majority, and it now comes before your Lordships
and is opposed by a small minority here. Under those cir
cumstances, I conceive that the present measure comes be-
fore your Lordships with no trifling recommendations.
You have had petitions from .many parishes in this king-
dom, anti from various societies of professing Christians,
all tending to show that religious rancour and animosity
alone can be generated by a perseverance in the present
system, and that their contraries may be expected to arise
out of a wise departure from it. Such are the sentiments
contained in the petitions presented, not only to your Lord-
ships, but to the Other House of Parliament, and to these
sentiments I think it is our duty to consent, taking the
chance for religious peace which the majority of the House
of Commons consider as likely to arise, and to be continued,
out of the present measure, conjoined with some degree of
securit, (perhaps all the security necessary) offered to the
Church. I think .it advisable to entertain the proposition
submitted to you by the Noble Lord opposite. By agree-
ingtia to it, you will attain the advantages to which I have
alluded—at
eqldetui—avatiethnet
to same.
he time,
security,securitytitftsweciullne.tynsulremaaycal
call
fully it,
which your Lordships are about to repeal, byagreeing to
the Bill now before you. I have nothing farther to Id,
except to crave your Lordships' pardon for having ad-
dressed to you these few words, which appeared to me ne-
cessary, in consequence of what fell from my Noble and
Learned Friend.
Lord GODERICH said, after the able and perfectly
satisfactory speech of the Noble Lord who had moved the
second reading of the Bill, and after the sentiments which
their Lordships bad heard from several Reverend and Right
Reverend Prelates--sentiments which, in his judgment,
did no less honour to themselves than to the assembly to
which they were addressed, and the Church to which these
Reverend *Prelates belonged, it would ill become him to
trespass at any length on their Lordships' time, or to go
at large into the general arguments which might be ad-
duced in favour of the second reading of the Bill. He
felt great satisfaction at the opinion expressed by the Noble
Lord at the head of his Majesty's Government, and the
commencement of his intention to support the measure
which it might have been the original purpose of Govern-
ment to oppose. Little was he who was strongly favour-
able to the Bill then before their Lortiship—little was he

disposed, and still less would he be justified in quarrelling
with the present determination of Government on the sub-
ject. Of one thing he felt confident, that if Ministers
considered the repeal of the existing Acts calculated to
endanger the Church, or put in hazard its union with the
State, they never would, and they never ought, to sup-
port it. If he participated in the fears cf the Noble and
Learned Lord—if he could bring himself to think that
the proposed measure would in any degree shake the foun-
dation on which the Church of England stood—he would
be ready to fight side by side with that Noble and Learned
Lord, and to support him to the uttermost. For he fully
concurred with him, and with other Noble Lords, in con-
sidering that the union subsisting between Church and
State could never be violated with impunity, and he trusted
in God it would always prove inviolable. He thought the
present measure supported by many and urgent motives,
and the least of which was, that it would have the effect
of removing much religious difference and animosity which
at present existed ; at the saute time, that, so far from
weakening the Church, it might be expected to conciliate
a great number of individuals in her favour. These, in
his mind, were sufficient reasons for passing the present
Bill. He acknowledged that he was in the situation of
those described by the Learned Lord (Eldon), as being
not far enough removed from infancy, to be competent to
form a correct judgment upon this question at the time
when that Learned Lord had been last called upon to ex-
press his opinion upon it. It so happened, that when he
(Lord G.) had been a Member of the other House of Par-
liament, the question was never agitated, consequently, l►e
bad never voted on it, and was not now bound by any
lurking feeling of consistency to oppose it. He, therefore,
looked upon the measure solely with a view to its principle
and expected operation, and on both the grounds considered
it entitled to his support. He was a little surprised at one
of tle objections put forward by the Noble and Learned
Lard and could not bring himself to think with that Noble
Lord, because in the preamble of the Bill, nothing was set
forth but its expediency, that it ought not to pass. He
admitted that it had been customary in former years to as-
sign the grounds for the adoption of a particular mea-
sure, in the preamble of the Bill, which was to carry it
into effect, and perhaps that was not an unwise practice.
—lt afforded some historical information, at the same time
that it assigned the reason fur the adoption of the particus
lir measure. However, the custom had of late years fallen
into disuse, and now more frequently a general expression
of the necessity and expediency of the ►measure was resorted
to. He could never concede that any individual was pre-
vented from voting on a law, because the grounds of its
enactment were not distinctly stated in the preamble, pro-
vided he was convinced that the law was a wise one, and
ought to be passed ; neither was any one allowed to go on
the arguments of the supporters of a particular measure, or
to refuse his assent to it because those arguments might
not be the most convincing, so long as he was satisfied of
the benefit likely to be derived from it. The reason why
he thought it expedient to abrogate the present law
was, because he felt that it was frequently conducive
to a profanation of religion, by imposing the neces-'
sity of taking a Sacramental Test for temporal purposes,
He could not believe the present Acts to be consistent
with a right Christian feeling of the nature and object of
the Sacrament. One thing might be said in its favour,
that the existing system was not very frequently called into
operation, but that was no argument for its continuance,
for, if inoperative, it was idle to maintain it. Though
many Noble Lords in that Nouse had, doubtless, held vari-
ous public offices, he was satisfied few had ever been called
on to qualify themselves for office, by complying with the
Sacramental Test. He himself had never heels so called on
to qualify except when he was appointed Chancellor of the
Exchequer. Why then be could not tell, except, perhaps,
that the Chancellorship of the Exchequer was a very dan-
gerous office. Soon after being nominated he was told
that it was absolutely necessary that he should, upon a cer-
tain Sunday, in a certain Church, qualify himself for re-
taining office by taking the Sacrament. God knows he
had not the smallest objection to do that ; but it happened
that he had received it shortly before his appointident,
though not with a view to qualify for the enjoyment of any
temporal office. And he naturally said to his informant,
" Won't that dot" But the answer was, " Oh! no, not
at all, by no means." Well, he complied, and to the
Church on the day intimated he proceeded, for the purpose
of receiving the Sacrament ; and he would say it was one
of the most painful duties he had ever been called upon to
perform, considering its object, and combining, as it did,
two duties, of the combination of which he could not ap-
prove. Suppose he had refused—suppose he could not
have made up his mind to mix together temporal and reli-
gious duties—or suppose he had been a rigid Presbyterian—
putting any of these cases, he should be curious to know
what the Noble and Learned Lord (Eldon) would have said
to him when he went before him to take the oaths neces-
sary to be taken previous to acting as Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer. The law required, before taking" such oaths in
the Court of Chancery or at the Quarter Sessions, that a
certificate should be produced that the officiary had taken
the Sacrament. If he had said to his Noble Friend that
he had before taken the Sacrament, though not for the pre-
sent purpose, and that he should take the chance of a Bill
of Indemnity, it was possible that the Noble and Learned
Lord might have refused to swear him in, and he would
not have occupied the office of Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, which circumstance, after all, perhaps, would have
been no great loss to the country. As matters then stood
even a Member of the Church of England might be placed
in a situation not only painful to himself, but totally unne-
cessary as far as the safety of the State, or the security of
the Church was concerned. If the Bill passed, which he
trusted it would, amendments might be made, provided
Noble Lords conceived it might be necessary, and he
should not feel much disposed to oppose them, though he
might happen to think them less requisite than other No-
ble Lords did. If the measure passed into a law, the
Church of England would present one of the most magni-
ficent spectacles that could be imagined to the admiring
eyes of men. It would appear, in the purity of its own
doctrines, strong in the affection and faith of the majority
of the people—strong in its connection with the State—as
was evinced by the presence of those Noble and Right
Reverend Prelates who occupied seats and represented it in
that House—strong in those endowments which it pos-
sessed by the same right as their Lordships possessed their
property—strong without the evil and unstable support of
an exclusive system. Such would be the situation of the
Church readily consenting to the proposed measure, and he
repeated, he could not conceive a snore noble spectacle than
it would thus afford. He had only to add, long might it
flourish, dispensing blessings among those who believed in
its doctrines, admired its ministry, and prayed heartily
and forcibly for its permanence. (Cheers.)
The Bishop of CHESTER did not mean to trespass on
their Lordships much at that late hour ; but he felt it his
duty, as a Member of the Legislature, to assign his rea-
sons for the course he meant to take. He must first state,
that he cordially and unequivocally concurred in the mea-
sure then before their Lordships ; but he could slot give
his consent to the measure, without protesting against the
doctrine, that the laws which this measure was intended
to repeal, and the persons who procured them, were ac-
tuated by a spirit of intolerance. With respect to the
character of these measures, it was unjust to cast on them
the reproach of intolerance. He did not wish to enter
into general principles ; but if be assumed that the good
of the country required an Established Church, he must
also assume that the Legislature was bound to extend to
that Church the protection that wee necessary for its
safety and security. If there were in the State any de-
scription of persons who considered themselves bound by
their consciences or their principles to take measures
for the destruction of that Church„, then the State was
bound to extend its protection to that Church, by prevent-
ing aoy of those persons from holding an office by which
they might be enabled to carry their designs into effect.
In much of what had been said on this subject there was
great disingenuousness, not to say unjust, to speak of
an enactment made on this principle as a systein of intole-
rance on the Church. As to the opinion of the persons
who had conscientiously procured those laws, if they were
of opinion that they were necessary to the safety of the
State and the interests of religion, he saw no reason why a
moral or intellectual disqualification might not be made a
Bill for excluding men from office, as well as a physical
disability. If the experience of thirty years in the middle
of last century had been sufficient to snake the advantages
of conformity apparent, was not the Parliament justified
in taking some steps to secure it? Ile trusted the senti-
ments of Parliament at that time—and it was worthy of
notice, that in the conference which took place between the
Lords and Commons, syheo the Act for preventing occa-
sional conformity was discussed, that the Lords took the
liberal side. They defended toleration against the Com-
mons. His Lordship then quoted a brief passage from the
statement of the Managers of the Lords, to show that the
Test Act was not passed to secure a Church as a
Church. " They say," the Lords' Managers said, " that
it cannot be disputed but that the 'rest Act extends
to all the considerable offices and employments in
which the security of the Goverment may be concerned.
That law was made when the kingdom was under a
great apprehension of danger to that Church, and the ex-
pedient agreed upon as most likely to secure her was the
placing all the considerable offices in the hands of her mem-
bers." He was certainly of opinion that protection web to
be given to the Church ; but lie was also of opinion that
that protection should be given with the smallest restraint
possible on the exercise of the civil and religious rights of

the people. In fact, however, the Test and Corporation
Acts did not answer their purpose. He did not like them
, because they alienated the conscientious Dissenter from the
i Church, and did not keep the not conscientious one out of
office. Some of the Dissenters had been asked to shew by
single acts, their conformity to the Church, and they had
occasionally done this; but when it was made a matter of
duty, they had refused. The less scrupulous among the
Dissenters did not object to conform. He wished,
therefore, that the Bill might pass, because the pre-
sent laws did not answer their purpose. If it were indis-
pensible to the safety of the Church to retain a Test, he
cordially concurred in all that had been said by all the
speakers against employing the Sacrament for this purpose.
It might, indeed, be said that the State did not compel any
man to serve it, and, therefore, did not compel any man to
take the Sacrament when he was unworthy of receiving it;
but he thought it was a very great hardship on the Ministry
of the Church of England, that they were compelled to ad-
minister the Sacrament to persons whom they might think
unworthy. He considered the Test Act as imposing on
the Ministers of the Church of England a necessity of ad-
witting to the sacrament persons whom they might be
otherwise not disposed to admit. No person spoke more
strongly in favour of a Test than Bishop Warburton. In
his great work, " The Alliance bet Ween the Church and
State," he had mentioned his own opinion in a note, and
he had referred for a confirmation of it to a work of
Bishop Sherlock. In 1765, however, Warburton wrote
some remarks on " Neale's lastory of the Puritans, which
he communicated to Bishop Hurd, and these were his ex-
pressions—" I think a test necessary for the security of
the Church, but I think the sacramental test the worst
that could be chosen, for it is evaded while it is profaned."
With respect to the Declaration contained in the Bill,
the Church, he believed, *you'd be satisfied with it, as
affording quite as much security as the laws they were about
to give up. In giving his assent to the gill, he would not,
however, be understood as precluding himself from assent-
ing to any amendments which might be hereafter pro-
posed, with a view of rendering the Bill more coin-
plete. Much had been said about bulwarks, and when the
people had got the idea of bulwarks into their heads, they
imagined that to take away the bulwarks must be to wea-
' ken or destroy the edifice. But what sort of bulwarks,
he would ask, were these, which required to be continually
propped imp and secured by an Annual fill of Indemnity?
The Test Act was originally passed to protect the careless
Churchman, who had neglected to qualify, not to lay a
restraint on Dissenters. If ever it had been a bulwark, it
was no longer required ; for there were plenty of means of
defence within the citadel; and if their Lordships would
only summon the engineers to the walls, they would be
able to defend it against the sapping and mining now car-
rying on against its foundations. It was itself a strong
hold of defence ; and if its defenders took their places on
the ramparts, it would defy the attacks of its enemies over
and over again ; and by its own majesty it would, in the
course of time, seduce those within its walls to seek for
protection and succour, who were now eager to destroy it.
Some persons contended that particular classes or sects
ought to be excluted ; but the principle on which he went
was, that security should be required from all. He was
not prepared to say what principles should not be ad-
mitted to all civil rights; but certainly those who
could not give security should not be admitted, and
those who could give security should be admitted.—
He was not prepared to exclude any sect whatever,—Hear,
hear.)—lf all sects could give security, all should be ad-
mitted.—(Hear.)—It was true that they accepted different
pledges from different sects of religion ; but at the same
time they were bound to receive all who offered sufficient
security. What a Noble Lord (Winchelsea) had said
about the Act as it now stood, being a test of their Chris-
tian principles, and that by doing away with that they
would consequently be deteriorating from their character
as a Christian country, and be affording assistance to
Atheism, which was already too ripe and active in the
country, all he had to say in answer was, that he did not
wish to make the Test Acts now what they had never yet
been intended to be.—(Hear, hear.)--They never yet had
been a test between Christians and Infidels, but only be-
tween one sect of Christians and another, and even then
rather as to their political-opinions, as far as politics
could be connected with religion. But in this country it
was said that such a step would be snore dangerons than
in any other. Surely this was not the case ; for while the
kingdom hail the Protestant Established Church in one
portion of the dominions, and the Presbyterian Church
in the other—while they were able to show the Bill
of Rights and the Act of Settlement--had they any
reason to dread that this country would suffer in
its Christian character? He trusted not—be trusted that
they had in the Church of England itself too much
truth and dignity—he trusted that they had in her gover-
nors too much care and affection—he trusted that they
had from the faithfulness and activity of her Ministers too
much suppbrt—and in all too good a security for there to
trr any fear as to its continuance ; and he believed, indeed,
that he might add, that they had too much good feeling in
the Dissenters themselves, for there to be any reason to
apprehend such a result. If he might be allowed to point
out the quarter from which he apprehended such an effect,
he would take leave to direct the attent;on of their Lord-
ships, not to the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts,
which excluded Dissenters from office, but to the counte-
nance and support which had been given to an exclusive
measure of another kind. When he saw that there was
about to be established a place of instruction in the metro-
polis, the pretensions of which, as to education, were of
the highest order, :and which had been undertaken under
very effective auspices; and when he found that it was es-
tablished so as to exclude religious education of whatever
denomination from its plan of instruction, he must confess,
that he was under some alarm. When he saw a place opened
for the reception and instruction of Christian youths,
the doors of which were shut against all forms of Chris..
tiau worship ; when he saw the principles of religion
excluded from places where they had hitherto always
been admitted and supported ; when lie saw that it was
the purpose of their institution to obliterate the very name
of religion from the instruction of these Disciples of Chris-
tian knowledge, he did confess that he saw some danger
which was likely to result to this country, in its character
as a Christian country; and yet he did not see that there
was so much reason to dread this line of conduct after all,
for he felt confident, that no sooner should the first fruit
of these steps to education be evinced, than tjie whole
Christian world would arise in condemnation of such a
measure—not only would the Established Church feel out-
raged, but the whole Catholic Church of Christ as exist-
ing in this country. This, however, was the quarter from
which he apprehended danger ; and so far from thinking
that it was likely to arise from the adoption of the present
measure, he had always thought it expedient for the Esta-
blished Church to pursue such measures as were best calcu-
lated to make her as little edious as possible; and be at-
tributed (as was indeed, he believed, generally the case)
the present state of religious quiet to the operation of the
Acts of Toleration which had been adopted ; and he made
bold to say, that the Church of England had not been the
last in acting on that principle.--(Hear, hear.) He begged
to apologize to their Lordships for the length of time
which he had occupied, but as it was now proposed to re-
peal Acts which it had long been supposed were the great
prop and support of the Established Church, he had
deemed himself called upon to enter into the subject at
a greater length than he should otherwise have done,—
(Hear, hear.)
Lord MANSFIELD said, that he had a great reluctance
to intrude himself on the Hause at that late hour, but as
he thought that the present Bill was a direct attack upon
the great bulwarks of the Church, he could not refrain
from laying before their Lordships such arguments as struck
him to be most forcible on the question. He was willing
to admit that the Test and Corporation Acts were oppres-
sive in some degree to the Dissenters, and even disagreeable
to some persons who belonged to the Established Church :
but he, nevertheless, did not see that that was sufficient
ground for their repeal. Looking at the history of the
present Bill, and at the manner in which it had been
pressed upon the notice of Parliament through time means
of petitions, he thought that the circumstances which were
attached to it were extraordinary. It was true that the
present Bill was not for the abolition of all test, but at the
same time it should be remembered, that after a consider-
able majority in the other House had decided that no best at
all was necessary, they expressed themselves' eatistied with
the declaration which had been proposed, though it was in
their power to pa*: the Bill through the Lower House
without any qualification whatever. The objection that
the Dissenters made to the Sacramental test was, that it
was a profanation of the Lord's Supper; but after the
Restoration, it was found necessary to exclude certain
persons froth office, as the Dissenters were particularly
offensive, this test • bad very naturally and properly been
adopted by Government; so that the test after all was
not one of religions, but of political principle—the Esta-
blished Religion being supposed to be inseparable from the
nature of our Government. By the repeal, therefore, of
the present Act, in what a state were Ministerss placing
themselves ! They would either be obliged to admit the
Dissenters into office, or to expose themselves to a painful
persecution ; and at the same time it should be observe.l,
that Ministers in this ease weee under the same responsi-
bility as they wire itt any other. He had no great objec-
tion to the suppression of the present test, as circumstances
had so much changed since its first institution ; but in that
ease he must always insist on some most efficient substitute,
and not one like time declaration proposed; on which he

could not look without suspicion. Had the present motion
been for a Committee, merely for the purpose of examining
into what declaration would be substituted for the Sacra-
mental Test, he should not have opposed the motion ; but
as he was not satisfied with the present declaration that was
proposed, he certainly should vote against the second read-
ing of the Bill.
The Bill was then read a second time without a division.
Lord HOLLAND moved, that the House be summoned
for Monday next, and that the Bill be committed on that
day.
The Earl of WINCHELSEA moved as an Amend.
unent, that the following Clause be substituted for the
1 kelaration

s : and whereas expe-
rience And whereas, many religious and conscientious persons
having objected to the necessity of taking the sacrament
ofgt htoe
aLooridr'rse
vSeurpepnetr
of:er
otflt et
the
eurposes aforesaid, as tend-
same
for many years past having proved, that many Pro-
testant Dissenters from the Church of England and Ire-
Lind may be admitted to offices in Corporations, and to
dices of trust under the Crown, without injury to the
Constitntion in Church and State, it is expedient that
,ome other provision be substituted in lieu of the said Sa_
cramental Test :

" And whereas, by the Laws of the Realm, constituting
and confirming for ever the Treaties of Union between
England and Ireland, it is solemnly enacted and declared
that the Churches of England and Ireland, as by law esta-
blished, be united into one Protestant Episcopal Church,
to be called the United Church of England and Ireland,
and that'the doctrine, worship, and government of the said.
United Church shall be, and shall remain, in full force for
ever, as the same are now by law established for the Church
f England ; and that the continuance and preservation of
the said United Church, as' the Established Church of
England and Ireland, shall be deemed and taken to be an
essential and fundamental part of the said Union ; and that,
in like manner, the doctrine, worship, and government of
the Church of Scotland shall remain, and be preserved as
the same are now by law established, and by the Acts for
the Union of the two kingdoms of England and Scotland.
" And whereas, it is just and fitting that all persons now
required by law to take the Sacramental Test aforesaid,
should, on being excused therefrom, be required to give
some other sufficient assurance of their beingwell-disposed to
the continunace and preservation of the said United Church.
" Be it therefore enacted, that so muchand such parts of
the said several Acts, passed in the 13th and 25th years of
the reign of King George the Second, and of the said Acts
passed in the 16th of the reign of King George the Second
as require, &c. be repealed. And be it further enacted,
that in lieu of being required to take or receive the said Sa-
crament, as aforesaid, all persons who are at present by law
required to take the said Sacrament, &c., either as a qua-
lification for being admissible to any Corporation, or to any
office of trust, or as a condition subsequent to being ad-
mitted to any such Corporation, &c., shall, except as here-
after excepted, immediately before their admission to such
Corporation, &c. make and subscribe the Declaration fol-
lowing :
" I, A. 8., being about :to be admitted to (as the case
may be), do solemnly declare, in the presence of Almighty
God, and of his Son, our Saviour, Jesus Christ, that I do
firmly hold and believe, that the Canonical Books of the
Old and New Testameur, as they are set forth by authority
within this realm, are true, and do contain the true re-
vealed word of Almighty God ; and I do promise and
swear, that I will do nothing to injure or weaken the
United Church of England and Ireland, as by law esta-
blished, or to bring into contempt the doctrine, discipline,
and government thereof—So help me God."
" And whereas, there are several offices of trust under
the Crown, of too little power or influence to make it
necessary to require the said Declaration from persons ad-
mitted to the same, be it therefore enacted, that his Ma-
jesty in Council shall be enabled to enumerate and publish,
by order of Council, a list of such inferior offices as his
said Majesty in Council sh&ll deem not to require the said
Declaration to be made, as a qualification for admission to
the same. Provided always, and be it further enacted, '
that nothing heroin contained shall be construed, as to
empower his Majesty, as aforesaid, to excuse, from taking
the said Declaration, any person about
.to be admitted to
be a member of his Majesty's most honourable Privy
Council, or any person appointed, and named,. to bejudge
in any of his Majesty's Courts of King's Bench, Common
Pleas, or Exchequer, or Judge of any Court of Record
within this realm, or to be Justice of 'the Peace in any
county of the sante? or to hold any office of State under his
Majesty, his heirs and successors.
" And whereas, there is an ancient and laudable custom
that the Judges of Assize, on their several circuits in
England and Wales, do solemnly attend Divine Service,
according to the Rites of the Church of England, in the
Cathedral or other principal Church of the city or town,
wherein the said Assize is holden.

" Be it hereby enacted and declared, that nothing herein
contained shall be deemed or taken to derogate from the
said laudable custom.

" And be it further declared, that it shall be part of the
duty of the said Ju,lges of Assize to attend Divine Service
aceordin,* to the rites of the Church of England, as afore-
said, unless prevented by illness or other unavoidable im-
pediment."
After reading the Clause at length, the Noble Lord pro-
posed it should be printed.
Lord HOLLAND said the Noble Earl was quite irregular
in moving the insertion of a clause (that, by the way,
looking more like a speech,) at that stage of the Bill.
When the Bill was committed the Noble Earl might bring
his motion forward in the usual way. As to the Noble
Earl's motion for having the clause printed, it could, not be
entertained for a moment by their Lordships ; for although
each individual Lord might feel obliged to the Noble
Earl fur reading the clause to them, yet there was no possible
reason why they should agree to have what was in fact a
part of the Noble Earl's speech printed. If the Noble
Earl, however, was particularly anxious upon the subject,
he might succeed by following either of two courses. The
first was to bring forward his clause in the shape of a Bill,
and move that it be printed as such—the second, to pay for
having it inserted in the public prints, a plan which he
understocd was not unfrequently adopted in Ireland.
The motion of the Noble Lord was then agreed to, and
it was ordered that the Bill be committed on Monday next.
'f he House adjourned at a Quarter past Eleven.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, APRIL 17.

Mr. FRANKLAND LEWIS, Mr. MI.Eon, and an-
other Member, took the oaths and their seats.
Mr. Crafer, from the Treasury, presented an ac-
count of the Life Annuities granted by the Com-
missioners for the reduction of the National Debt.

Mr. Wilson presented the accounts of the Tees
Navigation Company, which were laid on the table.
On the motion of Mr. BELL the Shields Navi-
gation Bill ws read a second time.