The Sun.
London, England, 1844-01-20 00:00:00

ing at the Corn Exchange the day after the meeting at : that occasion by the Rev. Mr. Tyrrell, and all the reso-
Mullaghmast ; it was on the 2d October ' • I got admis- 1 lutions passed at the meeting, which were the same as
sion there by having stated that I intended to report; on those passed at Mullaghmast.
the following day I obtained a ticket of admission from Witness—l see page 30 of my notes.
Mr. Ray; the words upon the ticket were, " Admit the SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Do you find an entry there of
bearer, Mr. Hughes, of the press, to all our meetings ; I anything that was said or done by Mr. Duffy at that
at the time I got that ticket I said, "You had better meeting ?—Yes, he said I have to hand in money from
mention that cam the reporter for the Government ;" , Mr. blank, of blank parish, and blank county. I mean
Mr. Ray said, " No, that will be sufficient, it will admit ' by blank I could not catch the name or residence of the
you ; the Conciliation Hall will be open soon, and we person.
will have a different place then for yourself ;" it was un- SoLlelToß-GENERAL—Look at page 35, and see if
derstood at Mullaghmast that I was the Government 1 Mr. Ray took any part in the proceedings at the meeting
reporter. At the conclusion of Mr. O'Connell's opening ion the 3d of October ? Yes, he said it was essentially
speech there he stated that he understood there was a i necessary that every accommodation should be afforded
gentleman there on behalf of the Government. I then to the press, and the passage to their table kept free ;if
got up, and said that 1 attended on behalf of the Go- the reporters were inconvenienced they cannot perform
vernment to report the proceedings. Mr. O'Connell then their duty, and the public will be disappointed.
said that on former occasions, when Government report- The Sommott-GENERAL—Look at page 35, and read
ers had attended, he had afforded them every facility, what Mr. O'Connell said upon that occasion?
and furnished them with documents, ac., and that he Witness read what Mr. O'Connell said; which was to
should be happy to afford the same accommodation to the effect that the passages should be kept clear, and that
me. I believe it was also through Mr. O'Connell that I Mr. Ray should have the passage clear, on account of
received a ticket for the banquet. (Witness here idea- the manifold letters.
titled Mr. Barrett as one of the persons who attended 1 The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Look at page 52, and see
the meeting at Mullaghmast.) 1 if any money was handed in by 1)r. Gray.
On the 2d of October, did you take notes of what oc- 1 Witness—Yes; I have a memorandum to that effect ;
curred at a meeting of the Association at the Corn Ex- and there were several sums handed in by him; I was
change?—l was not there at the commencement. never present at any meeting of the Association when
AbJuryman here withdrew. The Solicitor-General applications were made for newspapers.
not having observed it, was apprised of the fact by the At this period the Court and jury retired for a few
Court, and the examination was suspended. minutes, and the witness being told by Mr. Hatchell that
The Foreman of the Jury complained that they had he might retire from the witness-box, did so.
difficulty in hearing. After the lapse of about fifteen minutes, the Court
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL desired the witness to speak again sat, and Mr; Hughes commenced reading a speech
louder. delivered on the 9th of October, by a Mr. Green, of
Mr. O'Connell also begged the Foreman of the Jury Liverpool, at Calvert's Theatre, Dublin. He (Mr.
to desire the witness to speak louder in giving
.his evi- Green) professed to represent 400 Repeaters enrolled in
dance, as he occasionally sunk his voice. Liverpool.
Mr. FORD said it would be well if the Court would re- Mr. HATcRET.T., Q.C., cross-examinedithe witness on
move that parcel of barristers from the Court who were behalf of the traversers—l am not a reporter for the
getting phthisical and coughing.—(Laughter.) public press. My business is that of a short-hand
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL then resumed the examine- writer ; I never was connected with a journal. I have
tion, desiring the witness to speak as loud as he could been reporting in England, and from an early period of
and slowly. Have you got the notes of the meeting at my life have been pursuing that profession. I was par-
the Corn Exchange of the 2d October ?—I have. ticularly employed by the Government to come over to
Do you find there a speech of Mr. O'Connell, deli- Ireland, and act according to directions, but not to report
vered after a letter from Limerick had been read by Mr. any particular meetings. I had with me a letter addressed
Ray ?—I do. Witness then referred to his notes and to the Attorney-General. I waited on him on my arrival,
read the speech of Mr. O'Connell on that occasion, who but he was not at home, and I was directed to Mr. Brew-
referred to a paragraph that had appeared in the papers, ster. This was Saturday night, Sept. 30. The meeting at
headed " Military organisation at Clontarf," and stated Mullaghmast took place next day. I went there, accom-
that though a good quiz it never ought to have been panied by ass assistant in a fly-boat. I got there about
printed ;he hoped the Government would take no notice twelve o'clock. I had no person with me but my as-
of it, an pointed out that some arrangements as to the sistant from London, who was there for the purpose of
horsemen and carriages was absolutely necessary to pre- transcribing my notes. He is not learning the business
vent confusion among so great a number. —he is a good reporter. He might occasionally take
NOW turn to the notes of what occurred at the meet- notes, but not to assist me. His name is Leatham. He
ing of the 3d of October; but before we go to that, is now in Ireland. We came over from and returned to
state which of the traversers were present at the meeting England together. Leatham came over with me after my
of the 2d of October ?—Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Ray. first return, at the time I was sworn before the grand
Was Mr. Steele there ?—He was. jury. He also came over with me on the present occa-
Which of them were present at the meeting of the sion. He came over, I suppose, to be examined. Ile
3d f—Mr. O'Connell, Mr. J. O'Connell, Mr. Duffy, took some notes •of the proceedings, and transcribed
1 Mr. Ray, Mr. Steele, the Rev. Mr. Tierney, and Dr. some portions of them. No other person came over as
Gray. a witness. We do not belong to Mr. Gurney's office.
Do you see Mr. Duffy in Court ?—I do. When we arrived at Mullaghmast there were a few
And the Rev. Mr. Tierney ?—I do. on the ground. We were there about three quarters
Look at page 13 of your notes, and state whether a of an hour before the arrival of Mr. O'Connell.
letter was read from Loughrea ?—I must state that all We got on the platform, and had a good view of the
the letters and papers in my notes are not copies of the meeting. Parties came on the ground playing music. I
originals. I had applied to Mr. Ray for them, but had heard nothing about their being temperance bands, nor
been told that I could not obtain them. Having also been am I certain they were from anything I saw. I dare say
told that the copies printed in the papers were authentic, some of them were temperance bands, but cannot say. I
I copied them. can form no such opinion ; all I can say is that there
Who told you they were authentic ?—ln the first in- were bands there, and I think one or two of them had
stance I applied to Mr. Ray at Mullaghmast, for copies temperance inscriptions on them. Never attended any
of the resolutions passed at the meeting, and when I saw county meetings. I have attended public meetings at
Dr. Gray he appeared to have some reluctance to give Manchester, which are the only meetings I had ever
them. attended. At that at Mullaghmast there was a great
Mr. FITZGIBBON—I beg your pardon, please state number of women and children in the crowd. The
exactly what Dr. Gray said. movement was one of a perfectly peaceable character.
The CHIEF JUSTICE—When did you see him first ? Did not perceive anyueen pronenes
name s to riot or diestu it rbance.
Several days afterwards. Whenever the Q's was mentioned was
Mr. FITZGIBBON—State exactly what Dr. Gray said ? received with the loudest applause. After Mr.
—Dr. Gray told me he could not find the resolutions that O'Connell's arrival I heard it stated that I was on
were passed at the Mullaglimast meeting. I did not the platform as the Government reporter. On Mr.
procure them subsequently. Dr. Gray told me expressly O'Connell asking whether any gentleman was pre-
that he could not find them. I told him I had applied sent as a reporter on the part of the Government,
to him, because Mr. O'Connell had promised them to I stated the object of my attendance, and every possible
me, and that I wished him to communicate with Mr. accommodation was immediately afforded me. Ido not
O'Connell on the subject. He replied he would take think Mr. O'Connell shook hands with me. I received
an hour to consider, and that he would write me a a ticket for the banquet. I mentioned that Mr. Letham
note at the end of that. period stating what his deter- was my assistant. A very great number of persons of
urination was. I said, " Oh, no ;do not write to me, respectable appearance were present at the banquet. It
you had better see Mr. O'Connell." I was then leaving took place at about five o'clock, and terminated at nine.
the room, and as we were going out of the door by The same order and regularity was preserved at the din-
the staircase of the Corn Exchange, O'Connell was nor as at the meeting.
coming up, and I said, " Oh, here is Mr. O'Connell; From what you kuow of public meetings, do you
now, Dr. Gray, will you speak to him ?" Mr. O'Con- think it necessary that persons should be appointed to
nell addressed inc, and said, " Well, Mr. Hughes, are preserve order?—l think that parties on the platform
you here for documents ?" or something to that effect. would have been much incommoded at the meeting at
I think that that is nearly what he said. I answered Mullaghmast had there not been persons present to pre-
that I had applied to Dr. Gray for the resolutions vent the people getting on.
passed at Mullaghmast, and that he had told me he could As a fair man, I ask you, would you not consider it an
not find them. influential mode of procuring order, peace, and regu-
Mr. FITZGIBBON—You are ;quite certain that Dr. larity, they having such persons present as those whom
Gray used those words ? If you are not certain do not Mr. O'Connell appointed ?—I think it very proper that
swear it ? Witness—Yes, lam pretty certain he said such persons should be present. The Queen's health
that. was given at the dinner, and was received with very
SoLIciToR-GENERAL—Go on and state what next great applause. The health of Prince Albert was also
happened. given by the chairman, Mr. John O'Connell, and was re-
Witness—Dr. Gray then took Mr. O'Connell aside ceived in the same manner. Before the loyal toasts were
into a room; shortly afterwards Dr. Gray came out. On given, the letters apologising fornon-attendance were read.
his coming out I asked him, " May I have the documents, Have some of them with me. Took no short-hand note
or do you refuse them?" He replied, " Oh, no, Ido not of them, as documents are generally furnished to the re-
refuse them ;I do not mean any disrespect to you, but porter. The next letter I have is from the Right Rev.
I can't lay my hands on them." And he further John Cantwell, expressing his deep regret for not
added, "I do not think I should waste my time in being able to attend. Have not the letter from
writing those out for Sir Robert Peel." I replied that the Right Rev. James Keatinge. I was promised
"I had nothing to do with Sir Robert Peel, and that I copies of the letters that should be read. When I ap-
was applying to him in my character as a short-hand plied afterwards at the office, could not get them. Was
writer for those documents." He thereupon replied, referred to the newspaper publications as authentic.
" Oh, you may take them from the newspapers ' • they Hold in my hand a Freeman's Journal of the 2d of
are authentic." On the following day I was in the Corn- October. I see a letter from Dr. Keatin e. To the
Exchange, and Mr. O'Connell was there. I addressed best of my belief, that letteritn:asil-aevaed at theg meeting.
him, and told him that Dr. Gray had refused to give me Have no note of, my own of
r being2
ho a n
Boylan, u mr e a od f
a note of
d Lord
copies of the resolutions, but told me they were authentic Ffrench's letter being read. Have a
two Have
allestotearsnotefroofma
leCttaesrtlesignFedfrebnchnmei
as they appeared it the newspapers. He replied,' Yes,
yes, they are authentic." A letter from Loughrea was
read at the meeting of the Association on the 3d of Oct. of Hilltown-house. When I was refuysed copiesne of the
newspapers.
Loughrea, got this copy of a letter from Mr. Ray ; it is dated letters at the office, I took them from the wpaper
Loughrea, Oct. 2, 1844, and was read at the meeting of There was a letter from Sir Colman O'Lo hl reads..
the Association on the 3d of Oct. (The witness then Did not pay much attention to the letters, as I e:as
pro-
read the letter, which inclosed 141. as the subscription mised copies. Have anote of a motto which was inscribed
of 14 of the Town Commissioners, and was signed Patrick upon a banner, o,That a nation of-, eight millions is too
Skerrett, chairman, Wm. IPCarthy, secretary.) It was great to be dragged at. the tail of another nation."
Mr. O'Connell read that letter. Mr. HATenuiso—Do you not know that was taken
SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Did Mr. O'Connell make any from the Morning Chronicle ?-013, by no means. I did
observation immediately after reading the concluding not take it from the Chronicle. . . ,
passage " that they were determined to remove two or Do you ever read that paper?—l do not.—(Great
three recusants from the body with all possible dispatch, laughter.)
when the opportunity offered ? Witness—Yes ;he said I suppose you only read the Standard ?—(Laughter.)
they were right to turn out those who would not become —I - read neither. Having to attend Committees of the
Repeaters. House of Commons, I do not read many newspapers.
Judge PERRIN—Is that letter addressed to any one ? Did you ever attend a trades' meeting?—No.
—Mr. O'Connell said " I received this letter this Were you ever a member of any institution in England
morning." for the fostering and encouraging of native manufac-
Judge PERRIN—Is it addressed to anybody ? Wit- tures!—No.
ness (after again looking at the dccument)—This is a Have you heard of the repeal cap, manufactured by
copy, and there is no address on it to any.—(The wit- Mr. White, of Thomas-street?—I have.
ness then went on reading Mr. O'Connell's observations Did you go there to fit yourself with one?-1 did not.
in moving that the letter be inserted on the minutes, and Did you ever hear what the cost of one would be ?
the thanks of the Association conveyed to the writer, —No.
and the other worthy gentlemen named therein.) Mr. Do you understand anything of the nature of puffing?
Steele was present at that meeting. He said he rose —I do not.
to second the motion of the Liberator ; that he had ex- Don't you know the distinction between the puff direct
pressed some very strong opinions on the Loughrea 1 and the puff indirect?—No.
meeting ; that he considred that meeting more im- ; Don't you think it would be a very good way to puff
portant tan that at. Mullaghmast, where ! a cap or a coat to mention the name of the maker at a
" Behemoth, biggest born of earth, r public meeting 7—No doubt of it.—(Laughter.)
Upheaved its vastness. 1 You would have no objection to encourage native
' manufactures in any way you could? Not the slightest.
(Sensation throughout the Court.) Dr. Gray was at that You see no great harm in that ?—No.
meeting ;be read the names of certain persons, whom lie If Mr. White could have made a cap to fit you, would
moved should be appointed arbitrators ; Mr. O'Connell you have worn it?—l did not wear it.
seconded the motion, and it was carried. Dr. Gray then Did you handle the cap at all?—I did not, but I ad-
said he had a short report fronalhe Arbitration Cora- mired it.—(Laughter.)
mittee to present, and he had to move that some gentle- Would it not be an excellent travelling-cap to go about
men be appointed arbitrators, the first of whom was a
with in the packet?—(Laughter.)
gentleman who was recommended by no less than eight ,
Do you not know that gentlemen who visit Paris often
millions of people. lie was known by the name of the ' come back with the tricoloured Republican cap as a com-
Liberator, and he moved that he be appointed arbitrator fortable cap to sleep in?—l know they bring caps home
for the city of Dublin, which motion was seconded and
with them sometimes.
carried, and Mr. O'Connell said that he accepted the
Now you, as a man of the world, did not think there
office, and would devote one day in the week to the duties was any treason in that cap ?—I formed no opinion.
of it, with the other gentlemen who were named. Dr. Were you patriotic enough to buy anything to further
Gray, at that meeting, read a list of arbitrators that were- s • h f -
Irish manu actures?—l did.—(Laughter.)
admitted, many of whom were gentlemen who had been I . 3 /• • , jar your term' .,
uprosc 3,,m ),og It , ontun,.. 1,,T .
dismissed Nora the cotornissioa of the peace. 0 ;•,,,,r !aughter )
SOLICITOR•G'}:NI;RAL—Did Mr. O'Connell re..,10, ;••ly It ‘,ns ~ .i.p..4i Rt1,5;0,.ge ihen liw you were broti,,,iit
observations respecting that ticcument I
"ues:'—ile su tar for the encouragement or Irish inanufa.ctures, alai
said " I hope I shall live to see the day when the hall of
if you had been disengaged you would have had no ob-
the Four Courts will be very empty."—(Laughter.) jection to have got a lady for the tabinet ?—Probably
SOLICITOR-GENEUAL—Look to passage 64, and see not.—(lmmense laughter.)
if any observations were made by Doctor Gray. Wit- Indeed you might be worse off.—(Great laughter.)
ness—After he had moved the admission of Mr. Mr. Ilamilmo—How long did you remain in Irelaud
Balfe as an arbitrator, and the motion was carried, lie after the meeting at Mullaghmast ? Witness-1 left on
said, " I wish to state, before we leave the question of the 18th of October.
arbitration, that all the necessary documents have been
Mr. Hal:cinseo—Did you attend a meeting of the Re-
forwarded to the districts where the arbitrators have
been appointed. I recommend the parties not to open 1)eal Association on the 2d of October ? Witness—Yes,
I did. There, as at all other meetings, 1 was
the Courts until those documents be forwarded."
treated with the utmost possible civility. I received
SOLICITOR. GENERAL—Which other of the traversers
was at that meeting' Witness—The Rev. Mr. Tierney every courtesy and kindness at the Association.
Mr.
was present. In page97 I find the speech of Mr. Tierney,
seep ELL—You only read such extracts from Mr.
delivered at that meeting of the Association. (Witness O'ConneH
ll eechea, if I mistake not, as the Solicitor-
General requested you to read ? Witness—That was all.
then went on to read the Rev. Gentleman's speech.) Mr.
O'Connell spoke after the delivery of the speech by the Mr. HAFCHELL—Then you have notes of several other
Rev. Mr. Tierney. and said the Rev. Gentleman de- expressions which fell from Mr. O'Connell, independently
served the thanks of the Association, and that he (Mr. of the extracts which you read in Court ? Witness—
O'Connell heard the speech with pride and pleasure. Oh, yes; I have notes of very many passages from Mr.
The motion was carried by acclamation, and Mr. O'Con- O'Connell's speeches which I did not read, but I will
nell moved that the Association should adjourn to the read any part you require.
next Monday, when he (Mr. O'Connell) said he would Mr. IlaTcnEoe—Look through your notes, if you
revive a resolution of which he had fortherly given please, for some remarks of Mr. O'Connell's on Rib-
notice, and that it was useless to expect any redress bonism at the meeting of Oct. 3 ; they come immediately
from the English Parliament. He (Mr. O'Connell) before a letter from Tallow, signed by a person named
said he hoped the members of the Corporation who Jackson.
attended in their robes at Mullaghmast would meet The witness looked over his notes, but was unable to
him (Mr. O'Connell) on the following Sunday find the passage.
at Clontarf, but at all events he (Mr. O'Connell) would Mr. HATCHELL—The passage I allude to came before
be there in his robes. I attended a meeting on Monday, the reading of a letter from Sharman Crawford ; but I
the 9th of October, which was held at Calvert's Theatre, rather think you have it not, for I believe you did not
in Abbey-street. Mr. John O'Connell was in the chair, takes notes until after the reading of that letter.
There were present Mr. John O'Connell, Mr. Ray, Dr. Witness—The first remarks I have from Mr. O'Con-
Gray, Mr. Duffy, Mr. Steele, and the Rev. Mr. Tyrrell, nell are in allusion to a meeting in Donegal.
SOLICITOR-GENERAL—on, the Rev. Mr. Tyrrell is Mr. HATatEr.r.—Read what Mr. O'Connell said on
dead. that subject if you please ?
-Witness, in continuation—l see page 43, 44, and 47 of The witness here read from his notes his report of
my notes, and see the resolutions. He proceeded to read Mr. O'Connell's observations with respect to the Done-
them, but was interupted by gal meeting. The report of the same remarks which
Mr. HATCHELL, who said, let him read the report of appeared in the Freeman's Journal of October 4tb, was
the entire meeting, if you please. as follows :—" Mr. O'Connell said he did not know
SOLICITOR-GENERAL—That would occupy a consider- that this gentleman was not inaccurate in stating that
able portion of the day, and at present I will only read they did not take notice of the meeting in Donegal, but
the resolutions passed at the meeting. in general meetings were not taken notice of except
Mr. How/me—You have a right to any one particular they received some letter respecting them. What could
speech, but not to the entire. they say of the Donegal meeting but what had appeared
Mr. ITATCRELL—I beg your pardon. I have a right in the newspapers, for they heard of it only through the
to it all. newspapers, and the public knew of it in like manner.
The witness then, in accordance with the directions It was as obvious as the sun at noon day that they must
of the Solicitor-General, read the speech delivered on have been exceedingly gratified at that splenda meeting,

-T

and that they should feel the highest gratitude to the
people of Donegal for meeting in the numbers they did,
and for acting so peaceably, and returning without the
slightest accusation of a breach of the peace, and all this
peaceable determination exhibited by them showed
their firm resolve to join with the rest of Ireland
in seeking for Repeal. lle moved a vote of thanks
to the persons who called and managed that meet-
ing, and especially the inhabitants of Inniehowen,
and that the letter should be inserted on the minutes.
They might rely upon it that nothing would gratify
them more than any Repeal meeting in the north,
when it was confined within the limits of the Constitu-
tion, and the more numerous they were the more they
would be gratified, provided they created no rancour in
any party. The Donegal meeting had this advantage,
that it irritated no person ; on the contrary, it rather
had the effect of soothing any bad feeling,s that were
raised in the minds of the Orangemen. The Ariti-Re-
pealer could not retard the question except by giving it
a sectarian complexion ; and it should be understood that
it was not a sectarian question, or a measure intended
for the advantage alone of any particular persuasion, or
to do mischief to the people of any particular creed. It
was intended for the good of all persons of every creed,
and would prove as advantageous to Presbyterians, to
the Catholics, and to the Eaiscopalian Protestants,
as to either. It was intende'd for the good of all
Irishmen.—(Cheers.) They did not mark them
out in sections or divisions, and say some are Pro-
testants, or some are Catholics, or Presbyterians.
They would have no sectarian distinctions ; the only
mark they recognised was the name of Irishman. Their
object was to give Ireland to the Irish, and the man
was a bitter enemy of Ireland that attempted to create
any other feeling amongst them.—(Hear, hear.) They
should expel from the Association any man that made
use of a phrase of a bigoted nature, or one reflecting on
the religious profession of any class. The great evil of
Ireland was its religious distinctions, for • the tree of
liberty could only flourish when it was watered by the
grace of charity. They had opened the portals of the
Constitution to every class and creed, and they should
dismiss for ever from amongst them the foul fiends of
religious distinction that had so long desolated the
land.—(Cheers.)"
Mr. HATCHELL—GO down a good way farther, if you
please, and read your report of the remarks which fell
from Mr. O'Connell in reference to a remittance from
West Canada that day.
The witness read from his notes his version of the re-
marks in question. The newspaper report of same runs
thus :—" Mr. O'Connell said he was delighted that their
fellow-subjects in Canada West were advancing to their
assistance. As long as the Canadians kept within the
limits of the law they found him an ungifted but a most
zealous advocate. He acknowledged that he deserted
them the moment they had recourse to violence, and vio-
lated his principles by breaking into rebellion. At first
it caused every kind ot misfortune to their native country,
but Lord Stanley, who seemed to him to have the oddest
idea of things in the world, was now conferring every
kind of favour on those who survived the rebellion. He
found that a general amnesty had been granted to those
engaged in it— that the bills of indictment against
Papineau and others had been quashed, and that the
Attorney-General had a nolleprusequi on those indictments.
A rebellion in Ireland had been attended with the worst
consequences. He was convinced that a rebellion would
ruin Ireland. There never should be a rebellion while he
lived, but he would not carry the question of Re-
peal less securely on that account. Ile would not give
one straw for Repeal if it were not carried without the
shedding of one drop of human blood. The people stood
by him, and would obey his advice, and he never saw a
readier acquiescence in it than was exhibited on the pre-
ceding day at Mullaghmast. He would tell their friends
in Canada of that meeting—the most gigantic and mag-
nificent assemblage that he had ever attended, with the
single exception of Tara. Nothing could equal the beau-
tiful scene that presented itself to the eye as they passed
up the long avenue ascending the Mount of Mullaghmast
—the countless thousands that lined the way—the many
black-eyed women—aye, and the beautiful women, too,
that were with their husbands, and fathers, and bro- '
thers. They did not entertain the least idea, that there
would be the smallest encroachment on their delicacy, for
there was not one man among the hundreds of thousands
that were assembled that would not sooner have died than
offend one of them.— (Cheers.) They were there perfectly
safe and secure in the high-souled honour and protec-
tion of their countrymen—blessings on the lovely wo-
men of Kildare. And his (Mr. O'Connell's) police were
there with their cards upon their hats, and signifying
they had authority to keep the peace if there was an
opportunity of keeping it, which there was not. No-
thing could be more cruel than marching the unfortu-
nate green-coated police to these meetings; for what
were they wanted there? If any of the stipendiary ma-
gistrates came to him he would tell him off as many
men as would be sufficient to keep the peace.—(Cheers.)
They might keep the police at home, and not have them
wearing their shoes traversing the country in cold wea-
ther.—(Laughter.) There were two things in the con-
duct of Sir Henry Hardinge and the Government that
he complained of, and this was marching about
the police in this way (they had given up
the practice of harassing the army, and he was
glad of it), and having in fortifying Athlone
cut down two beautiful trees near its walls
to make the fortifications more secure. A tree
was a public loss to that country. He loved a fine old
tree; nature never produced anything more delightful
to the eye than the waving branches of an aged tree
that was still green and in vigour. He would forgive
Sir Henry Hardinge anything but that. To come
back to Canada next ; was it nut delightful to them
to have their brother Irishmen chirping to them
from such a distance ; but he begged of them, as he
did of Mr. O'Ferrall, not to abuse the Orangemen so
much, and to use civil language to them. It was
quite manifest they were not afraid of the Orange-
men ; and why, then, should they scold them ?
for persons only had recourse to scolding when they
were afraid. He heartily thanked their friends in
Canada, but he was glad that they had got over their
rebellion, and that Vieir country was near a free coun-
try, and had a Parliament freely elected. The English
Government had the good sense to let the Canadians
govern Canada. All offices were filled by Cana-
dians, or were being filled by them, and no man got into
office who did not concur in opinion with the majority
of the Parliament. It showed how wise it was to give
every dependency in England the power of self-govern-
ment, with a local Government ; for ,Canada was now
declared by the Ministry thernselves to, be, fur the first
time, in a state of unbroken quiet, except where it was
interrupted by the decaying Orange faction. It was
now settling-down in security and quiet. How little did
they know the Irish people, to make any distinction be-
tween the two countries. If they had a mind to
strengthen the empire—make it invincible against the
world, and make the throne stable and secure for ever,
they would make no distinction between them. He
moved that the letter and lists of names be inserted on
the minutes—that the persons named be enrolled as as-
sociates and members, according to the amount of their
subscriptions; and that Mr. Ray be directed to convey
the most respectful thanks of the Association to the gen-
tlemen individually and generally, who had subscribed."
Now, Mr. Hughes, will you be good enough to refer to
the report of the meeting at the theatre in Abbey-street,
and turn to Mr. O'Connell's speech there—but that re-
minds me to ask you a question that I intended awhile
ago. You said that Mr. O'Connell was dressed in
crimson or scarlet at Mullaghmast ?—Yes,
lie had a
Wasn't that the robe usually
robe on.
worn by the Lord Mayor
of Dublin ?-1-es.
And were there not several other aldermen and town
councillors there wearing those robes?—lies-
Read Mr. O'Connell's speech at the theatre in reply to
the address of the Repeaters of Manchester.—The wit-
ness read the reply, as previously published in the report
of the proceedings at the meeting.
After reading the resolutions which were read by the
Crown, will you read Mr. O'Connell's speech at that
same meeting in Abbey-street?—Witness here read the
speech at length, from his own notes.
the Clontarf meeting ?—I ywas, fur four or five dacs.eg
Mr. HATCUELL—Wereyou in Dublin any time. I;fte:
Mr. HATCHELL—Perhaps you -were there ?—Y,
was there.
Mr. HATCUELL—What were the directions you re-
ceived with the attendance at these meetings ; were you
to attend all the meetings ?—I was to attend the meet-
ings et the Corn Ercehen,re and the monster nieetings..
• ,4“, “‘k ,re of time proAttnalui,
• :10.1tko.1" meettngr—ir

was the toast Mr. Barrett spoke to at the Mullaghtnast

dinner.
The witness hesitated for *hod time, and then re-
plied, " The People."
Mr. M‘DoNotron—Look to your note of the meeting
held on the 9th of October in Abbey-street.
Witness—l have got it.
Mr. M‘Doroucti—Enumerate the names of the tra-
versers who ‘Tere present at that meeting ?—John O'Con-
nell, 1). O'Connell, Mr. Steele, the Rev. Mr. Tyrrell, Dr.
Gray, Mr. Dutfy, and Mr. Ray.
Mr. M‘DoNouou—You have not named Mr. Barrett
—was he there ?—I made a mistake about him on a
former occasion—he was not present.
Mr. M`Dosou6n—Then, I presume, he did not speak
there ?—He did not.
Mr. M‘DoNouGit—When you were under examination
by the Solicitor-General he asked you nothing about the
dinner at the Rotunda— was Mr. Barrett there ?—Mr.
Barrett was not there either. I mistook some one else
for him.
I think you stated you took the earliest opportunity
of correcting your mistake ?—I did.
Where was it?—At the house of Judge Burton.
Were you at the house of Judge Burton at the time
the recognisance was entered into, and did you then
swear your informations?—l saw Mr. Barrett there. I
did not swear my information on that but on a prior oc-
casion. I swore an affidavit that day ; it was an amended
affidavit.
Do I understand you to say you amended the mis-
take with reference to Mr. Barrett by affidavit ?—I
did not.
Were you present on the occasion when the recog-
nizance to bail was subscribed by Mr. Barrett ?—Yes, I
then mended the mistake. I mentioned it to Mr. Ray
and Mr. Kemmis.
Were they attending for the Crown ?—Mr. Ray is
clerk to Mr. Kemmis.
Did you apprise them of the mistake with respect to
Mr. Barrett ?—I mentioned to them I had a doubt
about having been correct in stating Mr. Barrett was
at the meeting.
Where was this ?—On leaving Judge Burton's house.
What did Mr. Kemmis say ?—I can't recollect what
Mr. Kemmis said.
When was this ?—ln Kildare-street.
Before you reached Mr. Kemmis' house ?—Yes.
On the way can you not recollect what Mr. Kemmis
said ?—He made no observation.
Then it was left as it was ?—I mentioned it to Mr.
Ray before leaving Judge Burton's house.
When leaving the room, in the passage, was Mr. Bar-
rett then in the house ?—He was.
What did you say ?—" I was mistaken in regard to
Mr. Barrett ; I had doubt that he was at the Rotunda,
or at the meeting at Calvert's theatre."
What did Mr. Ray say ?—I do not recollect what
he said.
Did you return to have the error corrected 2—l did
not take any steps further ; I thought it enough to in-
form them of it.
Then it was the mistake as to Mr. Tierney that was
corrected by affidavit ?—Yes. I did not correct the mis-
take as to Mr. Barrett ; merely mentioned it.
Did you make that affidavit on the same day with
your original depositions?—No; I corrected the mistake
as to Mr. Tierney the day the parties attended at the
house of Judge Burton.
Then you called attention to the mistake with respect
to Mr. Barrett 2—On that occasion.
Cross-examined by Mr. WHITESIDE, Q.C., on the part
of Mr. Duffy—When did you see the traverser, Mr.
Duffy ?—I saw him at the meeting at Calvert's Theatre.
Did he speak there?—He did.
Was it there he made the eloquent speech, " I beg to
hand in pounds for ?"—(Laughter.)—He
handed in some money.
Had you a distant view of the meeting ?—The place
was dusky.
A dark, dusky affair—perhaps, now, you could not
see the platform 7—l saw Mr. Duffy.
You reported fully and faithfully the meeting at Mul-
laghmast ?—I did, to the best of my skill and ability.
Now, you have seen large meetings before ?—I have.
Do you remember the immense meeting which took
place some years ago in London—l allude to that at
which Dr. Wade attended in his robes, and a small body
of 150,000 people paid a morning visit to Lord Mel-
bourne ?—I was in Parliament-street, and saw Dr. Wade
in his robes. I should say there was more than 100,000,
perhaps 200,000.
Then they really do great things in England as well
as poor Ireland?—l never saw so large a body of men as
was assembled on that occasion.
Do you attend the debates in the House of Commons?
—Sometimes.
Now, whether were the Irish or English multitudes
best behaved—there was no crushing, you know? —The
people were exceedingly well behaved at Mullaghmast.
In the House of Commons there are a number of ill-
mannered gentlemen, who keep bad hours (Loud
laughter)—now, as I know you are a man of candour,
don't you give the preference for propriety of behaviour
to the Irish people?—They were very well-behaved
when I saw them.
Who did you get the letter of introduction to the At-
torney-General from ?—Mr. Gurney.
What is the date of the meeting at Calvert's? I think
3d October—l thought it was the 9th.
Re-examined by the SOLICITOR-GENERAL—I saw Mr.
Ray at the meeting and asked him for the documents.
He said he was not the secretary of the meeting. I ap-
plied to him in his character of secretary to the Repeal
Association. lie said he was not the secretary of the
Mullaghmast meeting. I saw Mr. Barrett at the Mul-
laghmast meeting. I saw him afterwards when I went
to Judge Burton's to swear my amended affidavit with
respect to the Christian name of the Rev. Mr. Tierney.
I did not expect to see Mr. Barrett there. I knew him
to be the person I saw at Mullaghmast.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Read the address to which
the speech of Mr. O'Connell at Calvert's theatre, on the
sth, was an answer.
Mr. HATCHELL objected, and submitted that the
Crown had no right to go back to the meetings again.
If it was necessary, it ought to have been produced on
the direct examination.
The CHIEF JUSTICE said he did not see any objection
to the Solicitor-General reading the address in answer
to the speech.
The witness then proceeded to read the address of
the members and wardens of the Repeal Association of
Manchester to Mr. O'Connell, presented on the 9th of
October.
After the reading of the address was concluded, the
witness was permitted to retire—his examination having
occupied the Court from its sitting to half-past four.
Fleming Mathias Leatham examined by Mr. BENNET,
Q.C.—I know the gentleman who gave evidence last. I
came over to Ireland with him for the purpose of being
his assistant. I was present at the meeting at Mallaghel
mast. I have been engaged in taking notes for the last
ten years, I transcribed Hughes' notes from his dic-
tation ; that was a very long time after the meeting at
Mullaghmast. Hughes took the notes in short hand,
and read them to me, and I transcribed them in long
hand, I know Mr. O'Connell. I have seen him in
London. I took notes at the meeting for my own
amusement, but not full notes ; my sole object was to
assist Mr. Hughes ; he is a particular friend of mine,
and I wished to come over to Ireland and see the country.
I copied some resolutions at the banquet, which were
thrown upon the table, to the best of my belief, by Mr.
Ray, but I am not certain that it was by Mr. Ray. I
attended a meeting of the Association on the Monday fol-
lowing the Mullaghmast meeting ; that was on Oct. 2.
The witness went on to detail that he had transcribed the
notes of Hughes into long-hand. On his cross-examina-
tion he was asked by one of the traverser's counsel if the
resolutions published in the papers were not similar to
those which he had copied for Hughes? but the At-
torney-General refused to let him answer the question,
observing that counsel on the opposite side might identify
the papers in which they were published, and put them
in evidence if they chose.
Mr. FrrzoinsioN observed it would be long enough
without adopting such a course, and would, therefore,
withdraw the question.
Charles Ross then appeared on the table, and, having
been sworn, was examined by Scigeant WARREN—He
stated that he was a native of England, resided in Lon-
don, and was a newspaper reporter. Is a short-hand
writer, and has been so for upwards of twenty-years.
Came to this country at the end of August last. Was in
this country before. The first time became here was on
July the 4th. He was not certain ; it might have been
June ; but, at all events, it Wit! the night before the Don-
nyhrooli tee‘qing. Ott reft:rring to his notes it was on the
sih of Jul,' that he came here ; it was suggested to him
to come over here ; the suggestion was macre on the part
of the Government ; 7.-ituess took notes of Mr. Oton-
nells's speech at Donnybrook ; has not got that note ;
recollects to have had it about a fortnight afterwards ;
took a transcript of the original note.
Sergeant WARREN (in continuation)—What became
of the original note ? Witness—l carried it with me to
London, and kept it in a drawer. About a fortnight after
I recollect having taken it out, and placed it alone. 6 with
some other papers, and I fancy that one of my children
—(Laughter)—who had access to the drawer, destroyed
it, but what became of it I have never been able to dis-
cover, though I have searched for it diligently. The
transcript which I took was very correct.
Sergeant WARREN- —How soon did you take a tran-
script of the note? Witness—Next day: Attended the
meeting of Donnybrook. Had a connexion with a news-
paper at the time. I wish to state that fact, as there
were some observations made concerning me which 1 did
not then notice, because I wished to reserve myself for
this occasion.
Sergeant WARREN—YOU were quite right. You have
a copy of the speech of Mr. O'Connell at the meeting at
Donnybrook ?—I have.
Sergeant WARREN—Read it, if you please. (The
witness then commenced reading the speech of Mr.
O'Connell :—" What a glorious sight is here I I have
seen many mighty assemblies, but never such a one as
this. It is impossible for me to have more power, for I
have enough, &c.
;The witness still mantled to read Mr. O'Connell's
speech at the Donnybrook meeting, those parts exciting
great merriment in the Court which referred to the
cheapness of tea, sugar, and tobacco, and the hilarity it
would produce among the families of the poor.
Sergeant WARREN, to witness—Have you formed any
opinion as to the numbers present at the meeting ?-1
estimated the numbers at about 40,000.
Sergeant WARREN—Where were you placed ?—On
the scaffold.—(Universal laughter.) I mean I was on
the platform. The people came in procession with the
band. A great number of flags were exhibited. I saw
Mr. O'Connell as he approached. There was great con-
fusion at the time. I cannot recollect how long the
people remained on the grounds—it might be two hours.
I remained in Ireland the next day, and returned again
at the end of August last. I saw Mr. John O'Connell
at the meeting, but do not recollect seeing any other of
the traversers. I attended no meeting of the Associa-
tion in July, but did shortly after my return on the
28th of August. Ido not recollect who was in the

i!.
Mr. 11A.Tcoka..i.—Did you rcq.ivc any orders to attend
there?—l received no particular orders to attend, I went
from curiosity.
Mr. HATenELL—Did you report what occurred there?
—No, I had nothing to report, 1 saw nothing there but
troops.
Mr. lIAmtELL---Po you recollect anything occurring
at a meeting of the Association, previous to the Clout:11f
meeting, whilst discussing the preparations for that
meeting ?—No.
Have you any note that Mr. O'Connell mentioned an
application from some Protestant clergymen in respect to
the propriety.of conducti,og the procession so as not to
interrupt Divine service do not think I have any
such note.
llaghtn ola tsiti'at meeting.
Mr. cor
in
Mr. HATenELL7--I believe that took place at- the cor-
What
poration ?—.l was not at the corporation.
Mr. llxrcuELL—You stated that when youyocu tmasked
aetP
to
Mr. Ray
my to you ?-11e said he was not the
secretary to the Mullaglnnast meeting, or he would give
them. Dublin,
ioarftstaeli3e, meeting
documents at
relativet:
Mr. HATCIIELL—You have stated the names of several
persons who attended at the adjourned meeting at the
Corn Exchange. Have you not proved a speech as de-
livered by Mr. Steele there have.
Mr. Hatchell concluded his cross-examination, and it
was resumed by Mr. Moore, (2.11
for another of the

traversers.
Exchange, on the 3d
Cross-examined by Mr. MOORE—Direct your
theatten-
mCn oTrnyrrell thero?—l did.
teifo
on
ere
btehre. meeting
Did_ o 1
Mr. MOORE-- W ere you acquainted with his person
before that?—l never saw him before that day.
Mr. MOORS—What time did you enter the meeting?—
I went there about twelve o'clock, and remained till half- ,
past four or five.
Mr. mooßE—Was it a very considerable meeting?—
:14 see
No, it was not; the place was not very large.
Mr. Moonx--Weli, was not the meeting fully at-
tended?—There were 300 or 400 persons present.
Mr. MoonE—Were there many speeches delivered ?
—Not a great number.
Mr. MOORE—Did not several persons speak there that
clay, who are not now on their trial ?—Yes ; I believe
there were speeches made there by persons who are not
now on trial.
Mr. Moore concluded his crors.examination, and Mr.
M'Donough resumed it on behalf of Mr. Barrett.
Mr. mposouun—lnform the Court and jury 010

chair, as the Chairman was appointed before I got in.
Mr. J. O'Connell was there. I saw Mr. O'Connell, Mr.
J. O'Connell, Mr. Steele, and Dr. Gray there every (lay.
I saw Mr. lay there on two or three occasions. I took
notes of what was said. I got some papers from Mr. Ray.
Mr. Sergeant Warren then handed the witness a pa-
per, which he identified as being handed to him by Mr.
Ray.
The witness then handed in the documents, and also
others having reference to the Arbitration Courts. lie
received all these documents from Mr. Ray. He was at
a meeting of the Repeal Association on the 4th of Sep-
tember. On the 13th of September, i got a document
from one of the clerks of the Association. Mr. Ray told
me to go to a particular room to get it. The document
was " The Address to the People of the United Empire."
The CHIEF JUSTICE said it • was now near half-past
five o'clock, and probably the Court had better adjourn.
Mr. Sergeant Warren assented, and the Court rose at
half-past ve o'clock.

IMPORTANT LIBERAL MEETING•

(From the Dublin Monitor of Thursday.)
A most important meeting—indeed it is impossible to
overrate its importance—was held this day at the resi-
dence of the Earl of Charlemont, Rutland•square.
The object of the meeting—which has been contem-
plated for some time—was to consider the course most
judicious to be adopted in the present state of Ireland.
There were upwards of fifty Liberal noblemen and
gentlemen present, among whom we may mention the
following :
Duke of Leinster, Marquis Clanricarde, Marquis 'of
Kildare, Earl of Charlemont, Earl of Leitrim, Earl of
Meath, Earl of Miltown, Viscount Acheson, Lord Stuart
De Decies, Sir Thomas Esmonde, Sir Percy Nugent, Sir
John Burke, Sir Valentina Blake, Sir John Power,
Dublin ; James Power, Esq., M.P. ; Robert Archbold,
Esq., M. P. ; Mathew Corbally, Esq., M. P. ;
Thomas Wyse, Esq., M.P. ; Right Honourable
A. R. Blake ; George Roe, Esq. • Thomas Hutton,
Esq. ; William Murphy, Esq. ; Peter Purcell, Esq. ;
Shafto Adair, Esq.; James O'Brien, Esq.; Hon. Charles
French ; Stephen Dickson, Esq.; Leland Crosthwaite,
Esq.; Joseph Stock, Esq., M.P.; John H. Talbot, Esq.;
Hon. Colonel Southwell, Marmaduke C. Roberts, Hon.
Frederick Ponsonby, &c.
After an animated conversation, it was finally resolved
that a petition to both Mouses of Parliament should be
prepared, setting forth the admitted leading grievances
of the country, among which we may mention the state
of the representation, the acknowledged abuses of the
Church Establishment, the oppressive and unequal
amount of taxation to which this country is subject.
A petition embodying the above views having been
prepared, was unanimously adopted by the meeting, and
was entrusted to the Marquis of Clanricarde for pre-
sentation in the Lords, and to Mr. Thomas Wyse, M.P.,
for presentation in the House of Commons.
It was furthermore resolved that this petition should
form the groundwork of a substantive motion in both
Houses, and after motion of thanks having been passed
unanimously to the Duke of Leinster, and to the Earl of
Charlemont, the meeting separated.
This meeting, we are certain, will produce the most
beneficial effects. We know that the Liberal party in
Ireland are not scattered beyond the power of rallying
effectually when the voice of Charlemont calls for
union and action. In seasons of anxiety and peril like
the present the true patriot is tested, and when was
a Charlemont tried and found wanting ? We trust,
that out of this meeting a new union of parties will
result—that the good of Ireland will be the sole object
sought to be attained by political combination, and that
the welfare of our people—the promotion of industry—
the inculcation of peaceable and orderly habits— the re-
dress of admitted grievances—and, in fact, the improve-
ment of the moral and material condition of Ireland,
may prove distinguishing characteristics of the wise and
enlightened policy which, as applicable to the govern-
ment of Ireland, we may date from the meeting to-day
at Charlemont-house.

MR. MORE O'FERRALL, M.P.

We have been raqueste'd to publish the following
letter:— Tonbridge Wells, Jan. 14, 1843.

My dear Sheil,—l will feel Obliged by your attaching
my name to the petition to her Majesty, agreed to at the
meeting held in Dublin on the 13th inst. I regret that the
short notice of the intended meeting prevented my being
present, to express my indignation and disgust at the pro-
ceedings of the law officers of the Crown, acting under
the direction of her Majesty's advisers. What are we to
expect from their assumption, that twelve honest men are
incompetent to try an issue by reason of their religious
opinions upon a public investigation in a court of jus-
tice, as to whether illegal acts have been committed in
proceedings taken to obtain the repeal of an Act of Par-
liament? Ido not doubt that a Protestant jury. will do
justice, but I protest against the insulting insinuation
that a jury of Catholics would not.
We owe it to her Majesty and ourselves, to oppose a
system of which this is only the first step, tending to in-
fuse the worst spirit of the penal code into the adminis-
tration of the law, and to throw distrust and discredit on
institutions, which are the best guarantee for the se-
curity of the Crown, and the liberty of the subject.
Very faithfully yours,
—Dublin Monitor. MORE O'FERRALL.