The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-11 00:00:00

to assist him in arriving at a correct opinion, lie would
refer him to the statement of an eminent jurist, Sir .Tas.
Mackintosh, upon the subject. The Right Hon. Barcesee
the Member for the University of Oxford, gd tilit heeN
should vote for inquiry, it any allegation
,of abuse were,..,eee
made against the College. He (Mr. 0/thiune) theughteeselle\ ....
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that if he could prove to the Right H0iv.:144.i-Oeetes salts
.\'se
....
factit n that the original character had awe perverted; lie' e---7. 7.1
might calculate upon his eupport, and, krrilre ti tit place, -,
.....
Collegel, sCe‘e_A: unded her5....\11,...
it had beets alleged that Trinity
a Protestant Monarch, iron/ protestan et
,t ' acid for' „.,,.
Protestant purposes. What was Ole fact eve
s Tvltei lie4liCi tj
was founded in 1592, and the very gattectVk.e. _ -
auto in convent
was built was taken from the Roman t?
alon was to
.
of All-Hallows, and the object of the fou:
hear.")
extend learning and civilisation among Wee Roman
Catholics of Ireland.—(Cries of "Hear.
So far from Trinity College having been founds. 4 her
Protestants for Protestant purposes, it was founded out
of the public money for public purposes. He altogetbePr
denied that the original charter of the Dublin tiniversite
provided that it should be applied to any sectarian or
peculiar religious purposes. There was only one pas-
sage in the charter of Queen Elizabeth that could be
construed . r.t all to mean anything of that kind, yet
that he was sure could not be interpreted to mean that
the University was founded for Protestant purposes.
There was not a single word in it to that effect. He
would read the extract from the charter, and begged that
the lion. Member for the University of Dublin would
translate it for the benefit of the country gentlemen be-
hind him. The Honourable Member here read the ex-
tract to which he referred. The foundatine of the Uni-
versity of Dublin to Protestant purposes referred to
forty years after, when Strafford and Latitt were in
power, and persecution against the Catholics was the
order of the day. That was the first time that e`le Ite•
man Catholics were rendered ineligible. In a su,nPle-
mentary charter, the exclusion of the Roman Catho2ies
was thus set forth. The Learned Gentleman here read '
a long extract in Latin from the second charter, to the
effect that Roman Catholics should be excluded, and
the establishment set apprt for Protestant purposes.
He therefore deified that Trinity College was estab-
lished for exclusive purposes, and he should be glad
to hear what the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member
for the city of Dublin had to offer on the subject. In
fact, Trinity College had been changed altogether in its
constitution to what it was originally. It was there
provided that there should be no married fellows in the
university. This was altogether altered ; and they had
now that which would make Queen Elizabeth shudder
in her grave —priest fellows who were married. He had
made some inquiry about this, but he had not been able
to obtain any information. If he could have got it ho
would have been spared the necessity of making the pre-
sent motion, but as it was he could only term it a
gigantic scheme of con- fibial collegeality. It was not
very likely, therefore, that any of those fellows
would choose to leave their domes luxor in Dublin
for a waste parish in the wilds of the west. The
science taught in Trinity College was mathematics, and
for this he was ready to acknowleige the university had
obtained a European reputation, but in divinity
he was sorry to say the eminent examples were
few and far between. The corporation consisted
of a provost, 7 senior fellows, and 25 junior fellows.
The senior fellows received about 3,000/. a year for
their services, and the juniors about 1,500!. What their
duties were he never could exactly make out, but he be-
lieved that they were precisely in an inverse ratio with
their emoluments. By the fees for tui+ion, the college
had an income of about 28,3161., and from the rent of
land in Brunswick-street and the neighbourhood, there
aas an income of 21,684!., making in round numbers
50,000/. a-year. And what was the object of all this,
but to support Protestant ascendancy ? Now, he
did not think that this was in any way meeting
the requirements of the people of Ireland. Acade-
mical professorships in Trinity College were open
to Protestants of all nations, whilst they were closed
against the Irish Catholics. A few night ago, the Right
Lion. Baronet at the head of the Government pronounced
a glowing eulogium upon Dr. Cave, who certainly was
one of the first lecturers in Europe ; but yet this very
Dr. Cave was unable to fill a professorship in Trinity
College. A Frenchman and a Spaniard were eligible,
provided they were Protestants, but an Irishman was
ineligible because he was not a Protestant. They talked
a great deal of repealing the penal laws, and their de-
sire to put down ascendancy, but they kept up an odious
ascendancy in Trinity College. It was their bounden
duty to extend the provisions of the Act of 1793, and
admit Catholics to participate in the honours and profits
lof the university. A Commission had been appointed
to inquire into the Scotch universities. Why not into
the Irish ? The Right Hon. Baronet said there were
peculiar circumstances in the case of Ireland. So there
were circumstances that should compel inquiry into the
Dublin University beyond any other. And if the House
declined to interfere, he did not think the Royal hand
could be more usefully employed than in giving consent
to a Royal Commission to inquire into the state of that
college. Such an act would do credit to a Sovereign
who, whilst she rivalled Elizabeth in the ability to rule,
infinitely surpassed her in all the softer and more re-
fined attributes which adorn the sex.—(Cherrs.)
Mr. NI. BELLEW seconded the motion. He saw no
reason why a test should exist in Trinity College,
Dublin, any more than in the Scotch universities, where
it was virtually abandoned. It was of no ute to attempt
to blink this question. Sooner or later this Church
question must come on, and they might therefore as
well settle it at once. There was one point beside,
which he desired to bring before the notice of the
House. And it was this. He held that it was the
policy of the Government to do as much justice as possible
to all the people of Ireland, except so far as
it might touch the Church. Now this attempt to ex-
clude the Roan Catholics from the advantages of the
corporate property in Ireland would prove a vain one.
The Government might think that it was wise to keep
this property in an exclusive position, but such was not
the opinion of Edmund Burke. In 1798 he had stated
that no large measure could ever be successful which did
not do away with those religious distinctions, which
had been the curse of the country, and he trusted
therefore that no attempt would be made to persevere in
this system of exclusion. He wished to say one word
before he sat down, e 1:h reference to the Landlords and
Tenants Commission, and all he would say upon that
subject was, that the destitution existing in that country
was beyond all calculation. The suggestion of the
Right Hon. Baronet a t the head of the Home Depart-
ment of a royal commission would at once meet all the
circumstances of the case, and he believed that the pre-
sent Sovereign would prove in no way inferior to Eliza-
beth in providing for the education of Ireland.
Sir THOMAS FREMA NTLE said that he re-
gretted that it was not in his power to accede to the
motion of the Hon. Gentleman. The Hon. Gentleman
had made a very humorous speech, and had evinced
that he had made very extensive researches, and had
touched on a vast variety of topics. If he had made out
any case of a malversation of the funds of the college,
then indeed there would be some reason for inquiry, but
no such grounds had ever been attempted to be adduced,
and he must therefore be obliged to resist the motion.
The great front of the offence appeared to be that the
fellows were allowed to get married.
Mr. OSBORNE—AII the fellows ?
Sir T. FREMANTLE—He believed only the senior
fellows. But, whether only the seniors or all, the princi-
ple was the same. Now, without going into any length-
ened inquiry on this subject, he must contend that the
circumstance in no way affected the course of education
which was given at Trinity College. Then, again, with
respect to the Church patronage, he felt compelled to
express his dissent from the assertion that thatpatronage
was unwisely employm d. And again, with regard to the
income of the College, the Honourable Member appeared
to have gone on very insufficient data or the conclusions
at which he had arrived. The Honourable Member had
stated that the income of the College was 50,0004 and
that the emoluments of the senior fellows was as much as
3,0001. a year. Now, from the inquiries which be had made,
he was induced to believe that the income of the richest
fellowship was not more than 1,700/. a year. Yet, even
if it were 3,000!., which it was not, there would still be
no impediment to the good education of the pupils, and
he believed that no objection was felt against the emo-
luments which the professors enjoyed. Then, again, as
to Protestant ascendancy, why it might as well be said
that they were supporting Catholic ascendancy by in-
creasing the grant to Maynooth from B,OOOL to 26,000/.
a year. And as to the exclusion of Roman Catholics
from the college, it was well known that Roman Catho-
lics did go there, were educated there, and were thankful
for the education they received. Respecting the suppo-
sition that Roman Catholics were excluded from the ad-
vantages of the scholarships, all he had to say was that
there was a case at the present moment pending in the
Queen's Bench in Dublin, in which a Roman Catholic
member of the University, who had passed his examina-
tion, was suing to be installed in a scholarship. Should
that decision be unfavourable, an Act of Parliament
might be necessary ; but until the decision of the Judges
was made known, it was at least premature to accede to
any motion such as that before the House ; and con.
calving that no sufficient ground had been made for pass-
ing it, he should certainly give it his decided opposition.
Mr. ROCHE said that the Right Hon. Baronet, who
had just sat down, had stated, thatincztee:, s veßentnoeiaft,hine
decision of the Judges of the Court of
Dublin being unfavourable; that
Par-
liament would be necessary. That
wasall ttectve;f
thing
he wanted, and why not pass an Act at once?
The Right Hon. GentlemabntnhesaidbySecretary his Right i Rfoirlt Hon.relan
had referred to what had been
and Learned Friend the Member for Dungarvon
about Catholic ascendancy. But the Right Honourable
Baronet ought to r ':member that though they desired
that the Roman Catholics of Ireland should be educated,
they had no desire to establish an ascendancy of Roman
Catholics over the Protestant Church there. It had been
asserted over and over again that the College of the
Trinity in Dublin was open to all sects and classes. This
was a fallacy which could not be too frequently over-
thrown. It was not the case. The Roman Catholics
were admitted on the same footing as Protestants ; and
he therefore contended, with other Irish Members, that,
since they would not withdraw any part of the funds
of that college for the purposes of education,
the Government should at least build another college on
more liberal principles, and give the same extent of
classical learning to the students who might be entered
of it. The professors of Trinity, in the anatomical and
other chairs were required to conform to the Esta-
blished Church of Ireland. Now he should like to know
what difference the being a Catholic should make in
anatomy, natural or moral philosophy, or other chairs,
unconnected with theology in that college. He thought
that every Irishman who really loved his country would
be anxious to see all these restrictions removed, and
without it, he thought the reconciliation of that country
could not be accomplished.
Mr. HAMILTON assured the House that there was
no indisposition on the part of the fellows of the Uni-
versity of Dublin to give her Majesty's Government any
information on the subject of these colleges, but he
thought this motion had its origin in a hostile spirit,
as it certainly emanated from a hostile party. It had