The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-11 00:00:00

of secular education was evanescent and contemptible?
He would now refer to the appointment of professors.
He thought that the Cath die bishops, in seeking what
they did, were perfectly ju-tifiable. They suggested
that the professors of metaphysics, of geology, and ana-
tomy, . •11-tild be Cath.lics. The Government said such
a proposition was monstrous. Those professors in Dub-
lin Univ,rsity were all erutestants, and he would con-
tend that the bishops were pertectly right in pursuing
the course ~f refusing to rec..gnise the principle of the
rrelsure. unlc,s -utfielent means for the instruction of the
Roman C., th lie youth in the proposed cidleges, in their
proper religion, were fully recognised and provided for.
He would not complain of the distribution of offices, of
the appointment of magistrates, of the neglect of the
interests of Ireland, but he would content himself with a
fact. Fiftet n years ago Catholic Emancipation was car-
ried—fifteen years had elapsed since that great measure
passed the I,' g'slature, and he, who at that time led the
way in carrying it, was now the Prime Minist r ofF:ng-

There were eight millions of Roman Catholics in
Ireland, and yet- not a single Roman Catholic held office
under the Government—not one had the right of er.ttee
at the Castle of Dublin or th- Hume-effice.— ( I lear,
hear.) It was not so under the Whigs. Tin
di r their Administration the claims of the -Catholics
met A leas:t with some consider Ition. Under the
Whigs these were appointed to office--Sir 'Michael
01,o,zhlen, and Judge Ball, while Mr. Pigott was the
At ornoy-General for Ireland. The Whigs in their ap-
pointments to office consulted the interests and feelings
of the great Catholic community ; the present
Ministry had not. When proposing the present. Rdl. the
Academical Education Bill, whom did they consult? Cer-
tainly not the feelings or the remonstrances of the Catholics of
Ireland. The Hon. Member for Louth had told them that it
would be inconsistent for Roman Catholics to support the
Government so long as they adhe, ed to the present Chirch
Establishment, and refused to open Trinity College. In that he
perfectly agreed. There was neither reciprocity or jutice in
such a system. He new came to the ameto;ment. 'I he Hon.
Member for Wycombe (Mr. B. Osborne) had referred to the
orlidnal foundation of Trinity College as not being of an
exclusive character. He could corroborate that tact.
was not intended for ecclesiastical or sacerdotal
purposes, but as an institution for the education
generally of the youth. This was the object of the
establishment, as founded by Queen Elizabeth, who was a good
Protestant, but who was, nevertheless, a very heathen in a
carnal point. He held in his hand a book, descriptive of the
state of Ireland, written 200 years ago, written by no less a
person than Lord Bacon. The work was entitled the " Queen's
Service in Ireland." That great man said, in the work in
question, " to tolerate the Roman Catholic religion;" and
then he went on to advise the people of Ireland in a state of
contentment, to pursue an even course between England
and Ireland, and to treat the people as one nation ; one great
means of acomplishing which was by carrying out a liberalsystem
of education.—( Hear, hear) Coupling this passage, which
would be f mud in the third volume of the work, with the pas-

sage in the charter of Queen Elizabeth, already quoted in the
progress of the debate, he (Mr. Shell) contended that
'here was ne ground whatever far excluding Roman Catholics
from the University of Dublin. But that was not the way to
meet the questioi in 1845. What they wanted were just prin-
ciples and practices to conciliate the great majority of the
people of Ir‘dand. Trinity College, even with its present de-
'ective constitution, had produced a galaxy of great men, yet
that blaze of literary glory had only emanated from 700,000
Iri hmen, a mere handful of the people.—( Hear, hear.) What
then might they not expect if the whole waste mind of
Ireland was broueht into the precincts of that institution, and
'hat instead of 700,000, there were 8,000,000 of people pro-
fiting from the mine oe intellectual wealth accumulated there.
—'Cheers.) Let them not deny the great good that had been
done, but endeavour to change the system for a better. The
Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman then proceeded to notice
the fellowships of Trinity College, which were at present re-
stricted to Protestants, particularising several instances of the
emoluments and advantages, which Roman Catholics were
altogether excluded from by the present constitution of the
College. He considered it wt uld be of much greater srrvice
'o education in Ireland, instead of attempting to esta-
blish dwarfish colleges for academical education, to apply
18.000/. to improve Trinity College, and to throw it open
equally to Roman Catholics with Protestants. This course
%could be re•urned in full value to England in pacificating re-
,ults and in the general welfare and improvement of the people
'rf Treland.—(Loud cheers. 1 He thought that those conces-
stons ought to satisfy the House, and the advantages which had
been given to the Roman Catholic Church had been materially
liminished. At tl.e conclusion of this, their fifth session, it
should be a subject for the consideration of the Minis-
try that it was unwise to take such a measure
as "this at the conclusion of the session. This was no time for
halt measures, for he felt that if they longer delayed the set..
tlemr•nt of this dispute. the consequence would be that there
sonld he a total disturbance of the peace of the community.
and if this wee not cared for, he feared there would be a
fatal eruption, and the measure would be altogether destruc-
tive of the object for which this Bill was intended.
Sir R. PEEL said that the object of the Bid was to give
a perfect equality between the several parties. The Govern-
ment had certainly been very desirous to meet the religious
feeling of the country. Their object had been the liberal
endowment of the Catholic Church. and it was a little unfair
that the intentions of Government should he so misrepresented
. .

as they had been n this debate. There was no (lOWA but
that the feeling of the people in Ireland would, by this debate,
b. largely increased. The object of the original grant had
b-en to increase the resources of that country, and he thought
that the principle would be erroneous which made any differ-
ence between the honours. If they were to state any parti
cular interest as being affected, they might say that
the Pre-byterian interest was paramount in the north, and the
Roman Catholic in the south. The principle of this had been
allowed in the Bequest Act. The Right Hon. Gentleman
had given a very excellent speech in favour of the opening of
4everal colleges. The circumstance of the religious principle
being adduced, was sufficient to show that the intentions of
Elizabeth had not been carried out. The Hon. Gentleman
complained of a want of equality. Why, what could be a greater
tiroof of that equality than the.circurnstance that the Government
had invariably adopted those plans which were likely to in-
fluence public feeling. One of their objects had been to raise
religious animosities, and he was happy to announce that those
feelings of opposition had subsided. The object of the Govern-
ment had been to subdue religious animosities, and they suc-
ceeded. There was no sacrifice, however great, or however
lasting, he would not incur, if, acting with justice to Protestants
and Roman Catholics, he could promote he peace and harmony
of the country to which the Right Hon. Gentleman belonged.
Sir V. BLAKE wished to correct a statement of the Right

Hon. Baronet opposite. The petition front Galway to which
he had alluded was not in favour of the Academical Bill, but
that of the Maynooih Endowment. The people of Ireland
were almost unanimously in favour of the latter; would to God
the former measure was similarly acceptable to them.

Sir R. PEEL—Did not the Hon. Baronet call on me and
requeqt that I would make Galway one of the localities in which
the colleges should be established ?—(Loud laughter.)

Sir VALENTINE BLAKE admitted the circumstance al-
luded to by the Right Hon. Baronet, but explained that, subse-
quently, the disadvantages of the measure bad become so pal.
pable as to change his mind.—( Loud laughter.) The Right
Hon. Baronet continued for some time the most emphatic
gesticulations, but from the indescribable uproar which pre-
vailed during his entire address, not one word was audible in
the gallery.
Colonel SIFITHO RP said there was no one single act which
he did not believe the Right Hon. Baronet capable of, nor was
there a single measure, however monstrous, which he did not
think the Gentleman at the head of her Alajesty's Government
wou'd be disposed to carry in pursuance of that course which
he called "expediency," but which he (Colonel Sibthorp)
could designate by no other term than " disgraceful subser-
viency."—(Loud cries of "Order," and laughter.) Well,
if that epithet ,sere too strong, he would withdraw the word
•‘ disgraceful," to suit the tender censvienees of the House, at id
leave the &stoma!' ,n "subserviency." The conduct of the
Government had been of late so extraordinary that he should
not feel a, all surprised to see the Pope himself introduced as
Member of that House by the Right Hon. Bar-diet. or it that
gentleman htm,eif took his seat some day as Mussulinan, Ma-
bemoan, or Jesv.—(Lourl laughter.)
Lord J RUSSF.LL admitted there wore great merits in this
Hill, more especially as it contained the distinguishing feature
of wi,hdrawing reogioustests. But when became to the-general
question of education for the higher el sses of Ireland, the
University of Dublin was presided over exclusively by Pro
'estants, avid scholarships and all offices of distinction were
im larly exclusive. This inequality might he remedied in
two ways—either by endowing a Catholic college similarly
Tristity College was sustained; a second way, by giving the
rneacs of equality, as tar secular, if not ecclesiastical, benefits
could be attained in the university. But if the Government
Reilly wished to remove these obnoxious distinctions and dis-
abilities. it could easily be effected, whether the political, social,
or religious equality of creeds was considered. The people of
England would speedily recognise and assent to the principle,
as it Ireland would at once be benefited and grateful. He
should support the amendment of the Honourable Gentleman
for the admission of Catholics into Trinity College, after which
he would cheerfully vote for the third reading of the Bill,
although it was not so perfect a Bill as he could have desired.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment ... 9l
Against it
Majority against the amendment
Sir R. H. INGLIS then proceeded to argue, that Govern-
ment would fail to make their system of education perfect and
effective if they wholly divested it of religion. No man was a
fit or competent person to be an instructor in natural philo-
•ophy. or, in fact, in any of the sciences, who did not refer to
the name or the attributes of the Almighty, and he should,
therefore, move that the Bill be read a third time that day six
m inths.

Lord EBRINGTON declared his intention to oppose the
third reading of the Bill,lecause Government had not suffi-
cii•ntly explained upon what principles these colleges were to be
governed.
The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Member for the Uni-
versity of Oxford, that a former amendment having been moved
upon the original motion, he could not put the amendment
which the Hon. Member had just proposed.
Sir R. H. INGLIS replied that he would meet the diffi-
cull by withdrawing the amendment, and dividing on the
original question.
fhe House then divided, when there appeared—
For the third reading
Against it
Majority in favour of it —.451
The Bill was then read a third time arid passed.
NEW ZEALAND.

Mr. HAWES asked the First Lard of the Treasury whether
he has any objection to lay on the table of the House the in-
structions recently forwarded to the Governor of New Zealand?
Sir R. PEEL objected to their production. They were
confidential, and could not, consistently with the public service,
be produced.

DRAINAGE (IRELAND) BILL.
On the order of the day for reading this Bill a second time
being read,

Arr. S. O'BRIEN suggested its postponement.
Sir R. PEEL objected to such a course.
After a few observations from Mr. Redington, Sir R. Fer-
guson, and Sir T. Fremantle, the Bill was read a second time.
PHYSIC ANI)SURGERY BILL.

The consideration of this Bill was postponed till next Monday.
The Jiiint Stock Com;,anies Bill was read a second time; as.
were also the Geological Survey Bill, and the Arta Union
(No. 2) Bill
MERCHANT SEAMEN'S FUND BILL.

NI/. CUR rEis moved the consideration of the ;eport on
this Bill.
!Ur. HOWARD hoped that the Bill would be postponed HI
the eat .ession of P4' 'lament. It would inflict great hard
.hio on constituents, and ought nut to be pa,ed without
fu 1 e.,roidersii, r.

\lr. A I.ION kY had no objection to the postponement of the
Bill, if her Majesty's G...vernment thought than by
so doing they
i
coul.t introduce the Bill in a more improved form next session.
If it W. the opinion of the Government that by postponing
the measure t,ll the next session of Parliament the interest of
all part lee would be better attended to, he had nn objection
to agree to that postponement. He did not wish to thwart
h.tr M.,iestv's Govetnment, but to obt4in from them an as-
surance that in the next, session the suhject should meet their
earlie-t ewns.derstmn, and a Bill wound be brought in on the ,
subject.

Sir GEORGE CLERK fully believed that in the neon