The Sun.
London, England, 1828-06-07 00:00:00

Itkone Vestry Bill. Oa 1110 question that rho amendments
.be read a seemed time,
Mr. ASTELL objected to the second reading of the
amendment, on the ground that no case whatever had been
made Out against the vestry. When first this Bill was in-
troduced it was said that the select vestry were guilty of all
Linde of malversation, and unworthy of the trust
a"..1 confidence of the parishioners. This vestry had
h'"n eetahlished itv Act of Parliament for sixty-two years,
when. there was not one-tenth of the inhabitants that there
nog' are. This was nothing more than an attempt to
overcome estehliehed rights against the opinion of a great
Portion of the inhabitants. 'there was a petition, it was
tree, in favour 'of the Bill, but very few of those who
`'geed it were inhabitants.
Sir T. BARING was not surprised at the statement
Made by the Hon. Member, as he was not a member of
e Committee. He.had a great respect for different rosin-
hers of the select vestry, but so confidence in them as a
body. He spoke as an inhabitant of the parish. In the
enurtie of twenty years they had incurred a debt of 221',0001.;
in the course of a few years the rates had increased 50 per
c"tt, and though they had an income of 150,000/.
Year, they had still incurred a large debt. But he
c'hjeeted to this vestry on constitutional grounds. He he-
i'vred that an irrtxponsible vestry of this kind was a de-
pirture from the principles of the Constitution, which uo-
thing but en imperious necessity could warrant. The
110 n. Member was very much misinformed if he thought
that the inhabitants of Marylebone approved of the vestry ;
4t all events there was a very extravagant expenditure.-
4,9.5/. yeas charged (in 1811) for a perambulation, and the
Port., and sherry, and meat consumed at the perambulation
were carried to the account of the poor. In 1814, too,
the Vestry borrowed money at 20 per cent., and paid off
bonds at par. They built a chapel without any esti-
mate, and when it was half finished, called upon the archi-
test to pull it down and hnild a church. These charges
Were all proved against the veetry, ough he admitted that.
there were many others not sattihsfactorily proved. In
furnishing the Church, two thousand pounds was charged
'or velvet ; two hundred and sixty-one pounds for velvet for
the communion table; 1501. for velvet for the clerk's
`a"k ; and 213/. for two chairs. Ile really thought the
ope himself might be found a chair for leas money. Was
4t necessary for him, after what he had stated, to reptett
that the Select Vestry of Marvlehone bad been guilty of
malversation. They had involved the parish in a
mtbt of 207,000/., and increased the rates 50 per cent.,
'°d this, -with an income of 150,000/. a year. One cir-
"cnatance more he considered worth mentioning. They
tvanted a picture for the church which they had built, and
44liet1 to Mr. West, the artist, to paint one for them on
atnelin. This, which they intended for a transparency,
they had the good taste and good sense to place where there
',es no light behind it. (A laugh.) They might have
hail this picture for about 100/., hut in their extreme Jibe-
t4lity they had thought proper to give SOO/. He would
,ttt object to make a present of 700/. to a deserving artist,
'ln they should recollect that it was taken out of the
Pittieta of men who could net afford it. He recollected a
Noble Lord at a County Meeting bad said, that the Na-
*mill Debt was a mine of wealth to England; he sup-
kited the Hon. Member wculd argue in the same way for
this parish of Marylebone. The parishioners had made
ttveral appeals to the Select Vestry ; they wished that
"Neu alterations should be made in she system ; they had
'l'Pliel to have auditors appointed who were oat of the
This the Vsettry had peremptorily refused. They
qtld no course left het to bring the matter before the
ftse. He hoped the /louse would agree to the amend-
'test a&
Mr. ROSS defended the conduct of the Select Vestry,
sad observed, that the Hon. Baronet (Sir T. Baring)
bbd been greatly misinformed. The debt teas 40,000/. hiss
ciao had been stated by the Hon. Baronet ; and the in-
-4141e was only 100,000/. instead of 150,0007. as stated.
in-
, 4141 e
Perambulation Bill and other things he admitted were
'r ry foolish ; but these had been done many years ago,
41141 the present Vestry acted in a much more econn-
'tient manner. There was nothing corrupt or illegal,
though there might be something extravagant. There
*ere seventeen Members in the Committee who voted
;r the Ed), and nine of those had never heard more
%art a word of the evidence; and of the other eight, only
rear attended, the other rim, attending. one night. It
%toad have been much fairer and more candid to have
attacked all vestries.
Mr. 110BHOUSF—One of the Hon. Gentlemen had
*al, that there were no complaints against the conduct of
Ute Vestrymen. What then watt the original cause of going
14,t0 a Committee on the Bill—what was the tendency of
"PE evidence given before the Committee—or what was the
ll:waning of a petition signed by five thousand individuals?
yet the Hon. Gentleman had the hardihood to say that
-1.455 e,„ 5,000 individuals were nobody. Even on the estate
the Duke of Portland 500 persons came forward—all
"'enpiers of hour on his Grace's estate, who all petitioned
4alast the Bill, sad in favour of the present measure. He
ty,muld allude to the extravagant expenditure that had been
Pyr°Yed. He should merely state what all admitted, that a
21try was in existence in the parish of Marylebone, who
were themselves the conetituente of their own body_
temselees the distributors of the property of the parishioners,
,7hi
d themselves the auditors of their own accounts—that
eltly six thousand inhabitants felt themselves aggrieved,
vltd called upon the House to remedy the evil. The Hon.
ttithrr had asked, why did they not attack all Select
entriee ? And the Vestry themselves, on the other band,
;;4Plained that in attacking them, they did attack all—
tat any step taken against them would be but the sub-
'rilion of the constitution of all Select Vestries. He (Mr.
tildiontet) candidly confessed, that on entering on the pre-
ineesure, he did it with a hope of reforming the syt,--
'n generally' He called upon the House not to allow a
(elect, irresponsible body to proceed in the wasteful
I,Penditure of the public money contrary to the public
411.1. The Mon. Member, in alluding to the Committee,
r:11 said, that of the majority of 17 to 5 who had voted
itT the Report, nine Members had not attended to hear
t~e evidence ; but he, perhaps, forgot that those were
)
k" very persons—his Honourable Colleague, fu. ex-
,!tat Ale, who bad protested against hearing evidence at
11 49 totally unneessary. It they themselves—the
I'vLitotit able Member, and two other members of the Vestry,
40 were on the Committee—that would enter into no
r',4lprornise. The honour of the vestrymen was attacked-
-1 required an investigation, and they have
it,—(Hear.)—Independent, however, of the nine
'misers who had not attended the Committee, there was
(..Majority of b to 5 in favour of the report, and of those
Ilk 49 he before said, three were vestrymen:. He would
pt.the Worse whether, in respect to the honour of the
l''''Ynaen, they would refuse to hear the amendments read.
it ,Was Objected, that if the proposed course was adopted,
it,'"Uld be an open vestry. This was not the case; for,
o,_the appointment of a new vestry, a third only would be
o,,,nged annually, and that in the quietest of all ways—by
Shouldanv further alteration be found necessary,
ttti'as easy to make it in reading the amendments ; but
,c) thought it
__ was quite bnittelent that a great majority
Itnplaioed pf the present System, to induce the House
rater, lto those complaints. If they refused to hear the
ti;itndonents read, they would reject tile just complaints of
'44/4
T populousitv of the most extensive and most pa-
in the ling,loru.
Ir. G. SMITH made some observations, which were
'44 41.4udible.
qiNonel BAGLEY contended, that the debt incurred by
Pari,h of Marylebone was comparatively trifling whents'itiParell with its income, and lees tu proportion than the
'am of other parishes when the relative incomes were
041-cd. The Select Vestry of Marylebone was one of
host conducted Vestries in the Ningdom.
,4- MEMBER, who spoke from under the Gallery, teen-
tiont the whole of the charges against the Select
were unfounded.
ity,"ttr- HUME said, the Vestry had received au income of
Q 4,000/. in twenty years. They had agreed to build
Apt:tirelt for 19,000/. and subsequently they rebuilt the
4, la at an expense of 7,500/. There was a charge of
for velvet fo.• an altar-piece. How then could it be
))that they were not extravagant ?
'et4t PHILLIMORE was opposed to the Bill which
'ten the principle of popular Annual Election,
kit was little better than annual confusion in the parish.
tte, OWEN said that if quietness was desirable in
,it I?4tisli, the House would agree to the Bill.
RARING said that he had no objection to the
lite,44l.lztittal of the Bill, if that would obviate the objee-
-11;0 it.
NIABERLY spoke in favour of the Bill.
14wi, BURDEIT said that the annual popular election
z 4 tog been adopted in a neighbouring parish, and found
flood vt, it was not surprising that Marylebone, seeing the
alto, frente of such a system, should desire to obtain it
ant ~o moderate were the desires of the parish that they
444 ';hed to have some small control over the manage-
O„ their own funds. He considered that it was abso-
e4t4 w4.e-essary to agree to the present motion ; but if the
ittlytu, "rnwu out on this principle, it would be perticu-
Sht°
Th? gers were ordered to withdraw.
Recite then divided, when there were—
"r the Amendment 105
4likinet it BB

Thf, 8111 was co]

:113j ority. .• ,
qtly Low

Jrmlueutly . it.
BULL BAITING.
:‘11.• LIT BULL
rose, pursuant to notice, to preterit