The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-29 00:00:00

CANAL COMPANIES BILL.

On the motion of Mr. GLADSTONE the order of the
day for going into Committee on this Bill was read, for
the purpose of postp3ning it till this day week.
On the motion of the same HON. GENTLEMAN the
Customs Duties (Isle of Man) Bill was posponed till
Wednesday next.
Mr. YOUNG presented petitions from the north of
Ireland against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill.
OPENING LETTERS.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from the
inhabitants of Camberwell and Walworth, complaining
of the system of opening letters, which the petitioners
considered interfered with the liberty of the subject and
the freedom of thought and expression. They stated
that it struck at the root of domestic intercourse,
and they prayed the House to take immediate
steps to repeal the clause in the Act of Parliament
conferring this power, or such other steps as would pre-
vent the social intercourse of her Majesty's subjects
from being placed at the mercy of any of her Majesty's
Secretaries of State ; also petitions to the same effect
from Carlisle. Somers-town, Lambeth, Dumfries, Not-
tingham, and Bethnal-green.
DUTY ON IRON.

Dr. BOWRING begged leave to put the question, of
which he had given notice to the Right Honourable
Gentleman at the head of her Majesty's Government,
respecting the renewed intention of the Zollverein
to place a higher duty upon British iron, and particu-
la -ly on pig iron. He had seen that communications
had taken place between the different deputies and the
States they represented, and that the concurrence of those
States had been obtained to discuss this question. He
did not understand that any peremptory instructions
had been given to the delegates to insist on the rise of
duty, but they were to assemble in September next, when
this topic would be again introduced. The question he
wished to ask was, whether her Majesty's Government
bad taken any measures on the subject, or made any
representations to prevent such a disastrous result from
taking place ?
Sir H. PEEL said that her Majesty's Government
had not received any direct official information with
regard to the steps to which the lion. Gentleman re-
ferred, but private communications had been received
which Jed them to believe that there was a strong desire
to raise the duty on iron. Representations had been
made by her Majesty's Government, giving their own
sensa of such policy, and it was stated to her Majesty's
Government that there might be increase of duty for a
certain limited time. It would be difficult to answer
what might be the result of the assembly which would
take place, for they had every reason to think that there
would be a strong opposition to the measure.
COL. STODDART AND CAPTAIN CONOLLY.
Mr. B. COCHRANE wished to know from the Right
Hon. Gentleman whethei he had received any direct
account from Dr. Wolff respecting the fate of Colonel
Stoddart and Captain Conolly, and he also wished to
know whether her Majesty's Government had given any
support to Dr.- Wolff on his mission to Bukhara, and
whether he went to that country with the-sanction of
her Majesty's Government ?
Sir R. PEEL said that Dr. Wolff did not undertake
his journey to Bokhara with the direct sanction of her
Majesty's Government, because those means of working
on the Governor of that country were very ineffectual ;
but they told Dr. Wolff that, if he undertook the jour-
ney on his own responsibility, he would receive
every assistance that her Majesty's Government
could afford ; and they had an acknowledgment from
Dr. Wolff, thanking her Majesty's Government for the
assistance which he had received in his journey from
British agents. Communications had been received
from Dr. Wolff, and Col Shiel, her Majesty's represen-
tative at Teheran. The letter of Colonel Shiel was dated
so recently as the 6th of May, and the letter of
Dr. Wolff was dated the 12th of April, at
which time he was within three days of Bokhara.
The two officers were in prison at the time that this
person made his communication to Colonel Sheil. The
officers had been two years in prison, and he had not
heard of any public execution. Colonel Sheil had stated
to the Government in his communications that it was
difficult to collect from the conflicting testimony whether
the execution had taken place or not : it certainly had
not taken place in public.
Mr. B. COCHRANE wished to ask how these officers
had been employed by her Majesty's Government ?
Sir R. PEEL said that Colonel Stoddart was em-
ployed upon a mission to Khiva, and when that mission
was extended to Bokhars, he was allowed to avail hime
self of the services of Captain Conolly.
THE IRISH REGISTRATION BILL.
Lord HOWICK begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, the First Lord of the Treasury, what were the in-
tentions of the Government as to the Bill for amending
the law with respect to the registration of votes in
Ireland ?
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that he did not think the
Bill could be carried further than the second reading in
the present session. -
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. B. COCHRANE said, before the House proceeded
with the Dissenters' Chapels Bill, ho wished to make a
few observations with respect to the course adopted on
Government nights with reference to the business of
the House. The House had generally understood that
the question of the poor-laws was to be brought
forward that night. He did not want to annoy the
Government, but there must be some reason for
postponing the
.poor-law, and that reason, he had no
hesitation in saying, was that the Bank Charter had not
been sufficiently proceeded with last night. Now the
postponemt nt was a great inconvenience to Hon. Mem-
bers who had stayed in town for the purpose of attend-
ing the discussion. The question of the poor-law came
on first in that House on the Bth of February. Week
after week had been named for further pro-
ceeding with the measure, but nothing had
been done in it yet, and they were exactly in the
same situation now as they were before. He thought
the Bank Charter Bill should be postponed, and the
Poor-law Bill taken that night, after the Dissenters'
Chapels Bill. It would be far more convenient if the
Government would keep to the particular measures ap-
pointed for each evening.
Sir R. PEEL had the greatest sympathy for the un-
fortunate Members who were kept away from the coun-
try.—(A laugh.) He was as anxious to get there as any
ore—(Hear, hear)—but lion. Members should recollect
that the members of her Majesty's Government had at-
tended that House, for some time past, each day from
five o'clock till half-past one, upon the average. Their
only desire had been to take that business that was most
conducive to the public interest. With respect
to some measures the Government had no dis-
cretion ; that was the case relative to the Sugar
Duties Bill, which expired on the sth of next month, and
he would put it to Hon. Members whether the Bank
Charter Bill was not a measure of great importance ; it
was necessary that measure should he carried in order to
put down commercial speculation. He thought it a
measure quite as important as the Poor-law Bill. He
admitted there was great advantage in pro-
ceeding with the- measures appointed for the day,
but that could -not always be done. It was
much better to proceed with measures at once
than to postpone them, for after an interval of four or
five weeks they returned to the subject like giants re-
freshed, and the subject was debated over again. He
and his colleagues sat there nine hours every night for
the purpose of forwarding public business, and he
thought it was most important to dispose of the Dis-
senters' Chapels Bill, the Sugar Duties Bill, and
the Bank Charter Bill, before proceeding to other
measures.--(Hear, hear.) He had given a rash pledge
with regard to the Irish Registration Bill, in order to
meet the convenience of Irish Members. He had found
that pledge so inconvenient to redeem, that it would
make him exceedingly cautious how he gave anotheree--
(A. laugh.) He admitted the claims of the Poor-law
Amendment Bill to immediate attention. The Irish Re-
gistration Bill stood for Monday. The Bank Charter
Bill had to go through Committee. The Dissenters' Cha-
pels Bill he hoped would be disposed of in two or three
hours, and then they would be at liberty to fix a day
fur the Poor-law Bill.

Lord HOWICK agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet
in opinion that the Bank Charter Bill, the Sugar Duties
Bill, and the Dissenters' Chapels Bill ought to have pre-
cedence of other measures, but he would suggest to him
whether in order to expedite that happy release to which
they all looked forward—the end of the session—as ho
had informed them that the discussion of the Irish Regis-
tration could lead to no useful result, he would suggest the
propriety of discharging the order
i for the second read-
ing of the Bill. If it had been intended to persevere
with the Bill, he should have attended to give his reasons
fur his vote, but as the discussion could lead to no useful
result he should not like the trouble to take a part in it.
By persevering; in the course which he had laid down the

Right Hon. Baronet could only give rise to a long,
angry, and useless debate, which would most probably be
adjourned. By discharging the order he would be enabled
at once to proceed with public business, and he doubted
not but that the Irish Members would be perfectly satisfied
with the Right Honourable Baronet giving up the
Bill, and would release him from his pledge and
thus spare the House a vain and fruitless discussion.
This would enable the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir R.
Peel) sooner to meet the wi.,hes of the Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. Cochrane), and it would also enable him
' sooner to fulfil the expectations of the country with
respect to many measures then pending.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL saki it had never orcurred to him
that the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) would have
put him in the situation of returning thanks to him; but
he certainly felt called upon to do so after what had
fallen from him with respect to the Irish Registration of
Voters Bill ; and most happy should he be to renew
and add to his thanks, if the Right Hon. Baronet would
give the same assurance of delay with the Irish Munici-
pal Registration Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL said they had brought forward
the Irish Registration Bill with the full intention of
passing it into a law. It should be recollected that it
was at the urgent request of lion. Gentlemen on the
Opposition side of the House that he had postponed
the second reading of it.—(Ministerial cheers.) He
still adhered fully and entirely to the principle
of that Bill—(Hear, hear)—but in .the present
state of public business, and seeing that, even if the Bid
were carried into a law, it would not affect the present
year's registration, he saw no use in unnecessarily
pressing it beyond a second reading. At the same time,
he thought a discussion of its principle—and he saw no
reason whatever why it should be an angry one—would
be very desirable. Such discussion could not be other-
ise than advantageous to the Government, and might
the bettor enable the country to form an opinion upon it.
As to the discussion being of an angry and acrimonious
character, that, of course, rested with the Noble Lord
himself (Lord Howick).
Mr. ROEBUCK said the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Sir R. Peel) had forgotten one thing in his category—
a Bill called the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill.—(Laughter.)
He should wish to know whether the Government in-
tended to abandon that measure also?
Sir R. PEEL said he could not answer then as to all
these Bills separately ; the Noble Lord opposite had
suggested that he (Sir R. Peel) should state what mea-
sures the Government had a prospect of carrying, and
what measures they did not expect to pass into laws. He did
not at the time comply with the Noble Lord's request,
but on an early day in the next week he should be pre -
pared to state what Bills would be proceeded with, and
what abandoned.
Mr. ESCOT f said it was very desirable, if it suited
the convenience of the Government, that the Ecclesias-
tical Courts Bill should be one of the measures to be post-
poned for another session. It was certainly not one that
could be brought to any satisfactory settlement.
Lord J. RUSSELL said there was another measure—
(Laughter)— the County Courts RD, which he under-
stood from the Right Hon. Baronet lead been deferred,
in consequence of a measure being under consideration
in the House of Lords, for the abolition of imprisonment
for debt, which it was supposed would materially alter
the provisions of the County Courts Bill. At that time
it appeared the Government highly approved of the
measure brought in by Lord Cottenham, but since then
other circumstances had occurred. He (Lord J. Rus-
sell) understood that this Bill and another were referred
to a Select Committee of the House of Lords, where it
would probably remaia for the remainder of the session.
He should be glad to know what the views of the Go-
vernment were with respect to this measure, and whether
it had changed its views since the former answer was
given ?
Me. P. BORTHWICK complained of the postpone-
ment of the Poor-law Bill on several occasions for two
years past. He hoped that if brought forward, reason-
able time would be afforded Hon. Members for discuss-

in:2; it.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that on an early day next week
he wou:d fix those measures, which it was the intention
of her Majesty's Government to press, and the order in
which they were to come on. He could assure the Hon.
Gentleman and the House that it was the intention of
her Majesty's Government to press forward the
Poor-law Amendment Bill, and to take the
earliest opportunity for that purpose. Had the Dissen-
ters' Chapels Bill been read a third time last night, he
would have brought on the Poor-law Amendment
Bill that night, but more inconvenience would result
from not proceeding with the Dissenters' Chapels Bill
than from postponing the Poor-law Bill.
DISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL.
_ _

On the motion for the reading of the order of the day
for the third reading of the Dissenters' Chapels Bil',
Mr. COLQUHOUN said that, notwithstanding all the
talent which had been ranged in favour of the Bill in
that House, the feeling against it out of doors was still
as strong as ever. The Dissenters entertained no hos-
tile feeling against the Unitarians. This Bill was in
part wholly unnecessary, and, where necessary, it would
lead to great practical injustice. It was said that a
great many lawsuits would be the consequence if the
Bill did not pass. He did not believe that would be the
case, for the common sense of the parties would prevent
that. He denied that the grievances of the class of
Dissenters who would be relieved by this Bill were so
great as to justify so great an alteration of the law.
The Bill broke in upon the wholesome principle by,
which the Legislature had hitherto protected trust pro-
perty. His Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary of State
for the Home Department proposed a Bill to interfere
with charitable trusts. That Bill was objected to, and
did not pass. In his opinion the question ought to be
left to the Courts of Law, and ought not to be, inter-
fered with by the Legislature. The Bill, in his opinion,
introduced a dangerous principle with respect to trust
property, and he should therefore move that it be read a
third time that day six months.
Sir It. INGLIS seconded the motion. He retained the
same opinions now as he did when the Bill was read a
second time. The Bill had been altered in Committee,
and en recommittal, and on the bringing up of the
report, but he believed its substantial character remained
unaltered. The second clause of the Bill, which was the
vital one, remained unaltered. It still guaranteed per-
petual possession, requiring nothing more from the par-
ties than that they should have been in possession with
or without the consent of the founders. He could assure
the House that the measure was regarded with deep ap-
prehension and pain, he might almost have said of horror,
by the great mass of people out of doors. He had never
treated the question as a religious one, he looked on it
simply as a matter of property. But the whole question
had been so completely exhausted by the discussion, and
the pamphlets that had been written upon it, that he
should not detain the House further, but simply con-
clude by seconding the amendment.
Lord ELIOT could assure his Hon Friend, that if he
had any bias on the question at al', it was rather unfa-
vourable to the measure than otherwise. He thought it
would be impossible to distinguish between those cases
where trusts had been founded originally by Unitarians,
and those where, from the lapse of time, the Unitarian
doctrine came to be taught. L >oking to all the circum-
stances, he thought it was but an act of justice that the
Bill should pass.
Sir THOS. WILDE said that at first he held an opi-
nion adverse to the Bill, and having been waited on by
several persons interested in the Bill, he gave it consi-
derable attention, and the conclusion he came to was, that
it was a Bill to prevent the confiscation of property.—
(Hear, hear.). Considerable misrepresentation prevailed
with regard to it. The Honourable Gentleman opposite
him had certainly mistaken the law as applicable to trusts.
The principal object of the Bill was to extend to the
trustees of chaeels the same protection which was al-
lowed by the law to all other trustees. In the case of
Lady Hewley's trust there had been expended upwards
of 30,0001., and yet a new suit was about to be instituted.
The Bill was to be opposed, not by the persons interested,
but by those who would absorb the whole fund in costs
of law.—(Hear, hear.) The Bitl would have no other
effect than preventing the future misapplication of the
funds of any charity. He (Sir T. Wilde) had entered
into the investigation with a strong impression against
the Bill, but since he had considered it fully, he had felt
it to be his duty to support the measure.—(Loud
cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Member had charged
him with having undertaken to lead the Opposition to this
measure in that House. He had doge no such thing.--
(Hear, hear.) What he really did do was this. A de-
putation waited .ir•nt him, ine discussed the Bili with
them, and his impression was adverse to the measure.
The lion. Gentleman said that he (Sir T. Wilde) had
had their papers. He had had no such thing ; hut he
had asked the Right Hon. Baronet for more time to
consider the Bill, and he, with his usual courtesy, had
granted it. The statement of the Hon. and Learned
Member regarding his (Sir T. Wilde's) having been en-
gaged by any party out of the House to oppose the Bill
was wholly without foundation. He had not been even
asked to do so, nor to take any other part than as an
individual Member of Parliament. He had been, it was
true, originally opposed to the Bill, but had subsequently
changed his mind on the subject, and intimated to several
of his Hon. Friends such change of opinion, and, fur-
ther, that he meant to state his reasons for the change in
Parliament. He must now say that he thought the Bill
was a good one, and that the Government had acted
wisely in introducing it to the House. His constituents
were, it was true, opposed to it, and were anxious that
their representatives should oppose it; but, convinced as
he was of its utility, he felt it his painful duty to act
contrary to their wishes.
.Mr. SHAW explained, and repeated the expressions
he really had used regarding the Hon. and Learned
Member for Worcester. He had especially guarded his
expressions against any personal censure upon that Hon.
and Learned Member; he had even said..on the occasion
that he imputed no blame whatever to him. He had
upon that discussion inaccurately stated that an emi-
nent member of the Synod of Ulster, Dr. Montgomery,
had subscribed to the Trinitarian form of faith. He
had been since informed by that eminent individual that
such was not the case. Regarding the Bill itself he en-
tertained the same opinions as formerly, and would
oppose the third reading.
oppose
were then ordered to withdrawn, and the
House divided, when there appeared—
For the third reading
Against it
Majority fur the third reading —l2o
The announcement of the numbers was received with
lou I cheering.

NEW WRIT.
A new writ was moved and ordered for Limerick, in
the room of Sir D. Roche, Bark, who has accepted the
Chiltern Hundreds.
BANK C [TARTER BILL.
The House then went into Committee on the Bank
Charter Bill.

Clauses 7,8, 9, 10, and 11 were agreed :o.
On claiEe 12 Icing put,
Colonel SIBTFIORP asked tLe question of which he
had given notice, as to the difference of the actual
amount of circulation by extending the issue of notes by
the private and Joint-stock banking empanies to the