The Sun.
London, England, 1826-03-04 00:00:00

The Hon.-Gentleman had urged the expediency of reducing
the establishment by one half. Now onehall only of the whole
charge wai for the effective part of the army, and the other half
for pensions; lilf-pay, and other items of a nature not reducible,
so that to follow the reanumendation - of the ,Ilom Gentleman
would be to leave the.coltntry :without any arrny.at all. This
would :thew hew safe it would be to take the Hon. Member as
a guide. Those Who- teak the course pursued by the Honour-.
able Gentleman, had a great advantage;sas nothing was more
easy than,to indulge in general declamation, on economy, ant
expensive establishment.' The Estimates had been found as
far as due regard to the public service would allow, a strict ad-
herence to the doctrines and in accordance with the spirit of the
Finance Committee. 'With respect to:the ',military spirit the
lion. Member supposed to exist, he, for himself, and also 'for
Ministers generally, totally disclaimed it. Nothing could be
less consistent with their feelings and views. To keep up an
unnecessary military establishment in time of peace, was not
only bad economy, but bad policy even in a military sense:...-
Unnecessary troops would of course be unemployed, and if' any
occasion for their services should arise they would not be the
most valuable description of troops. lie did not therefore
defend a large military establishment in.time of peace--but he
trusted the Committee would agree to such an establishment as
was necessary for the public services. It lied been said, that
in 1821 a considerable reduction had been made. It was trite
that in that year, in consequence of the distress which prevail-
ed, Government had been anxious to comply with the wishes
of the House—and that, against their judgment, they did con-
sent to a considerable reduction. lint what had been the con-
sequence? Great embarrassments and inconveniences had en-
sued, in the Colonial department; and, after 3 or 4 yeas, they
had been compelled to resort to a considerable augmentation.
—The-Hon. Gentleman had complained of that augmentation,
on account of its not having been applied to the purposes for
which it was granted-4o Ireland and the Colonies. To refute
that imputation he would state that last year 10 regiments were
sent out and only 4 came back--and that in the present year 8
regiments would he sent out and only six would come back—
so that fourteen regiments would be afloat for a considerable
part of this year, and if that were KO, was it not evident that a
greater force was required ? Besides this he would state that a
new organitition of the army had taken place, from which
considerable advantages were expected. It was formerly the
practice that the whole ten companies, of which a regiment of
the line consisted when the regiment was selected for colonial
service, went abroad, leaving a skeleton only in England for
the purpose of recruiting. By the neiv arrangement this prac-
tice was altered, and no more than. six companies now went
abroad, the other four companies remaining in England. This
rendered the force in the colonies more effective, because casual-
ties could be more easily and peomptly.supplied. This occa-
sioned the greater part of the non-effective to be at home; of
8,000 non-effective, 6,000 were now at home. The Noble Lord
trusted he had said enough to convince the House, that the aug-
mentation had not been applied to any other purpose than that
for which It had been granted. lie need not urge-upon the
House the impropriety of sending troops levied in England by
voluntary enlistment into perpetual banishment.—(hear
Yet that mint be the practical consequence or reducing the mi-
litary force. There were now eight regiments- in India who
had been there 19 years, and two reginients in Ceylon and
Mauritius, who had been 20 years. These ten regiments had
been kept in a tropical climate for nearly twenty years. If the
army were to be diminished, relief's would be impracticable,
and soldiers would be consigned to perpetual banishment, to
that which is inflicted as a punishment upon atrocious criminals.
The Honourable Gentleman had drawn out in magnificent
array a military force of 239,000 men. But how had he made
titi this force? It included, in the first place, 22,000 of Irish
Militia. Now he could inform the Committee that of this force
not a single man existed, except in the vivid imagination of the'
lion. Member. Not a single man was enrolled of the Irish Mi-
litia ; the whole was purely a creation of the Hon. Gentleman's
fancy. Then the Hon. Gentleman took the Yeomanry corps
to amount to 74,000; the fact was it amounted to 28,000 in Eng-
land and 26,000 in Ireland. He did not know by what arithme-
tic the Hon. Gentleman could get this amount. In case of war,
or of any other emergency, it was ridiculous to talk of a militia
not enrolled, nr of yeomanry who were only called out an-
nually for eight days. He trusted there was nothing in the
statement of the Hon. Memberto induce. the House to adopt
his resolution. When lie spoke of the increase since 1792,.per-
haps, he was not aware how much that increase dependedlupon
the half-pay and pensions. In 1792, this charge amounted only
to 92,434; inn 1816, to 2,802,00 W. The difference was occasioned
by the extended nature of our operations during the,late war.
So that when it wits found that nearly 2,400,0001. of the tliffe-
rence in the estimates of the ten years arose troni the gratitude
of the nation for services performed during the war, that differ
rence could no longer excite so much surprise.
Mr. ROBERTSON charged the Hon. Member for Aber,'
deen with inconsistency in ascribing the return of prosperity in
1824 to the advance in the price of corn, when night after night
-in that House he was calling out-for cheap corn. lie inveighed
against the system of free trade., and anticipated that it must
lead to a branch of faith with the public creditor. %Vick this
impression lie could not agree to any decrease of the army ; lie
dissented, besides, fratult on constitutional grounds.
Mr. HUME expressed himself dissatiafle..l with the reply of
`the Noble Lord. If relief of the regiments in the Colonies had'
been the object, why,augMent the Life Guards or the cavalry,
. —these were not Sent to the Cblonies. The lion. Gentleman
then Stated the particulars of the increase which lied taken place
in these descriptions of forces. If the militia or yeomanry were
. of no use why keep up the expellee which they occasioned. - Ile
then entered into details toshew that the half-pay had increased'
recentlY.
Lord PALMERSTON stated that the whole augmentation.
of 131108 Men, which had been granted on account of the Colo.
.
re
nies, had been made in regiments
Htsoofrith. ;ileimne' betrin:lnroetroernreinmag
ton
added to the guards or the cavalry. The Staff of the lri
mhalilti:tPiaitYo,nrlyefewrarsedk, elipetsuupp. Theposed2 to a recent regulation by which
the sale of half-pay was permitted. But, in Contradiction to
the assertion of the Hon. Gentleman, he would suite that the
half.pay was permitted. But, in contradiction to the assertion
lof the Hon. Gentleman, he would state that the half-pay which
in 1820 was 840,0001., had been reduced to 770,0004, as itstood
at present.
The House than divided—

For the Motion
Against it

• • • 144
• • • 45

Majority

On the Resolution,for granting 166,:171/, lON. Cal. to defray
the expence of Volunteer Carps In England and Ireland fur the
year 1026,

Lord A LT HORPE said the whole system of permanent cinty
for volunteers was useless. if they were quartered in a country
town, he admited, they could not pay their expences for 6s. or
7w per day. lie was himself a member of a volunteer yeomanry
troops, but had never drawn any allowance money for perma-
nent service. The Noble Lord moved to reduce the estimate to
147,0001.

Mr. Secretary PEEL bad found the volunteer yeomanry
useful to the public. When the Hon. Member for Montrose
considered the dicta of the Finance ComMittee of 1017, that
Hon. Member should have. recollected that the Committee to
which he alluded, spoke in the highest terms of the Volunteer
Corps. With respect to the merits of the Volunteer Yeo-
manry, the-Right Honourable Gentleman? us Secretary of
the Home Department( was ready to give his opinion that the '
volunteer yeomanry were a most useful corps. They had
claimed eta remuneration for their services an exemption from
civil offices, but the Right Hon. Gentleman had never thought
lie could comply ,with that request. Although lie bore testi-
mony to the utility of Volunteer Yeomanry, lie had no wish to
enerease that corps, but had stated that it would be better for
those wbo were not effective to retire. Many in consequence of
that intimation had retired, and the number of yeomanry was
greatly reduced. His general view of the service had been, that
volunteers should not be done away with, but thatnounnecessary
xpence should be incurred. The existence of this constitutional
force rendered it unnecessary to call in regular troops when
events occurred to disturb the peace. This description of force
was useful in affording protection to property. They were not,
however, to run down the people of England, as the Honour-
able Member for Montrose had stated. If the yeomanry corps
were to be kept up, the public ought to pay the expence of per-
manent service. Ile supported the Resolution, believing that
It was a sum which the service required.
Sir It. HERON thought every shilling paid to the Volunteer
cavalry so much money thrown away. When Volunteer Corps
were called to quell internal disturbances, they were not the
proper force. The disturbances at Manchester proved that the
regular troops would have done their duty much better than the
Yeomanry Cavalry.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought Volunteer Corps did not
keep up the peace of the country ; they were sometimes useful,
but in general they did no good. The regulars were the best
moving to reduce the
a t'orce was neces.
force to prevent disturbance. The Noble Lord ho
tthoughtdy e
d by
25,000/. for this Volunteer Cavalry quite sufficient. He thought
the vote come to that night was discreditable to the House.
nary.T e yThe hadea h rerdasecnoncwluh
so large
estimate to 25,0001.
rd no
Noble
u

~Sir'R. FERGUSON
thought the Standing Army would
keep the peace better than'Volunteer Yeomanry. He did not
wish, to see a body of irregular cavalry brought against the
people of this country. lie considered the disciplined Eng-
lish cavalry the best in the world, and it was absurd to see
irregular corps of volunteers wearing mustachios, like foreign
veterans.

iiii:TiENkTT said he had seen the Yeomanry highly useful.
They acted as armed constables. He had known them supprtss
riots without drawing a sword. He wished all Volunteer Corps