The Sun.
London, England, 1821-03-29 00:00:00

SILVER BULLION.

Mr. GRENFE Id. rose to move for an Account of Silver
purchased by Government for the Mint, since the year 1816,
with the prices thereof, and of whom purchased. The Hon.
Gentleman said, that his object in making the motion was to
sze that the public did not pay a higher
.price for silver than
they ought. Silver, in considerable quantities, was purchased
from the Bank—as far as that body was concerned in the tranS-
actiou, he did not mean to impute any blame whatever to them.
What he understood was this, that the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), finding that he had
a large quantity of silver in bars, applied to the Bank to taste
the same : the Bank accordingly took those silver bars to the
amount of one million and a half, in discharge of the debt of
tni Millions due by the Government to the Bank. The Bank
purchased the silver at hs. 2d. per ounce, with the understand-
in, that when the Mint should happen to require a supply of
sirver,,the flank should deliver back a quantity of _that silver
at the price at which they had purchased it. With reference.
to the silver coin, he thought it in every way highly creditable
to Government, provided the silver was purchased at a. price
no highi;r than it ought to bear.
The CHANCELI.OR of the EXCHEQUER said, that on
the present occasion he did not think that he was bound to give
any particular explanation. He concurred with the Honour-
able Member that no blaMe whatever could be fairly imputed
to the Bank—they only returned •to Government part of the
silver which they had before purchased at the same, price at
which they had purchased it.
After a few words from Mr. PEARSE, the motion was
agreed to. • : : "
BANK CASH PAYMENTS BILL.

'The NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
Jrtler of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Corn.
mittee on this Bill. - _ _ .

On the motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair being
put,
Mr. GRE'STELI. said, that he felt anxious to correct a
misrepresentation which had been made in and out of the House
respecting the Bank of Ireland. It was asserted that the Bank
of Ireland refused to receive gold in payments ; the Bank only
refused to receive gold in deposits. It was also asserted that
the Bank refused to discount the Bills of those who imported
gold ; he was authorised by the Governor of the Bank of Ire-
land to state, thadthat report had no foundation in fact—(Hear,
hear !)—The Bank was regulated by what was called the good-
ness of the Bill, and by no other 'consideration ; he was also au-
thorised to say, that since the failures of the Banks in the South
of Ireland, the Bank of Ireland increased its issues to nearly 50
per cent. Before that event the amount of its paper was three
millions ; it now amounted to five millions.

Mr. ELIAS said, that it cam; immediately under his own
knoWledge, that a sum of money, intended to complete a sale
under the Court of Chancery, was offered to be deposited in the
Bank of Ireland. It was not until after several discussions that
the Bank, as in law they were bound to do, received the current
coin of the country. He was not surprised at the refusal of the
Bank of Ireland, because the Bank Note was higher in value
than the Sovc.reign' an inconvenience which he had- foreseen
when the Act of 1319 was under discussion, and which he stated
to the House.

Mr. PEEL sail, that if the conduct of the Bank of Ireland
was fairly inquired into, it would be found that they had done
nothing that did not promote the public good, him Honour-
able Friend (Mr. Grenfell) had made declaration which was
important, considering the authority which was attached to his
name. He could vothelp thinking that his Honourable Friend
(Mr. Ellis) must have been mistaken. 7 The Bank of Ireland
was always willing to receive Gold, except where they had rea-
son to think that it was brought for sinister purposes. The fact
was, that great speculations in sovereigns took place in Ireland,
because it was found that a sovereign was worth less than a
Bank of Ireland note of the same nominal value.. Since men
became anxious to exchange sovereigns for notes of the Bank of
Ireland, and to make deposits to a large amount, whilst the
Bank, on the other hand, was prohibited from issuing. gold, by
making deposits in gold, and receiving a Bill on England, the
speculator made one or two per cent. of the' Bank. This im-
position the Bank was naturally anxious to defeat, and whilst
they received gold in fair payments it became their interest to
refuse deposits made for speculative and sinister purposes. The
Right honourable Gentleman then went on to say, that the
Bank of England managed the whole of the public debt of Ire-
land without making any charge whatever to the public.
Mr. ELLIS explained. He begged to be understood that he
merely stated a fact without having any intention to throw the
slightest imputation on the Bank of Ireland.,
Mr M. FITZGERALD said, that on the emergency which
took place in consequence of the failure of the Banks in the
south of Ireland, they had acted with as much liberality as it was
possible Or them to practise, consistently with prudence and
their charter. Were it not for the liberal efforts of the Bank of
Ireland at that crisis, it would'be difficult to calculate on the
mischief which would have ensued. The Right Honourable
Gentleman next observed, that since the Act. of 1819, the Irish
-Bank note stood at the highest point of value, the note of the
Ilarik of England at the second, and Gold Coin at the lowest.
The difference between the highest and the loWest, namely,
between the Bank of Ireland Note and Gold Coin, was three
and a half per cent. That difference naturally promoted
speculation ; the speculator pressed his gold, in order to re-
ceive a profit of three and a half per cent.; but the Bank, he`
submitted, stood perfectly justifiable in refusing deposits in gold,
offered for . the mere purpose of making an undue profit of the
transaction. _

Sir 11. VARNELL said, that it was always in the power of
the Bank of Ireland to correct the variation between the value
of gold and of their notes. It would have been only necessary
to increase the issue of their paper, in order to bring it down to
the value of gold. lie hoped, for the purpose of preventing the
fluctuations in the currency, that the Rignt lion. Gentleman
opposite would not object to the appointment of a Committee
to consider of the best means of assimilating the currency of both
countries.

Mr. IRVING lamented that the Banks both of England
and Ireland hall not sucient means for diffusing their notes--
a measure which he thought necessary u, lighten the pressure of
the difficulties under which the country laboured.
Mr. T. ELLIS defended, at some length, the conduct of the

Bank of Ireland. .fia uid,tllnt_in no single inst;,raie diet'('ck
refuse to disco:int wheri there they were not-borne out to the
utmost .extent of 'discretion. Of 1109,0901. granted bi Go.
vermnent on the occasion of the failures in the South en Irn-
knd, not more than 100,0101.. was demanded by the Merchants
of Ireland—a demonstrative proof Of the liberality of the Bank.
,llon. Gertleinan said, that the cliff4rence between. the
value of the Irish Bank-note and the sovereign 11 net :t :v
been so easily corrected as an Hbn. Barohtt secui
the difference.arese principally &Om the rate cc
rate of exchange principally caused by the great exports of oorn
from Ireland—the exports of that article for the-last year ex-
ceed by three times the quantity of any fornieryears.
Mr. RICARDO said, that the Right Hon. I'4mb:its for
Oxford and Kerry had misunderstood the nature of. the pro--
ceedings of the Bank of Ireland. The Bank
.eflatlAr.e. had been
placed- in an unfavourable situation, and j?,fr-,nc.ted with great
energy. In consequence of the stoppage eflifth coitrit:y .banks
there was a necessity for an increase of 'currney of some kiai.
The Bank made an effort to increase the currency, and they hal
increased it to the amount Of 50 per cent. and he ha.,l heard,
conversation from the -Governor of the Bank, that they woui,t-
have issued more kfthey-oouid have got the securities on which
they usually made their-advances. 'Nov, it would not have a:.f.
sisted the currency to take in sovereigns whir:: they put ferta
their notes, as it was obvious that such an operation would in n
degree change the total amount in circulation. The word libe-
rality, however, was very improperly used as applied to Cc,:
Bank of Ireland. They never, increased 'their notes witho!,;`.
reaping an advantage from it ; therefore, thou.,fli he spprov-Yt
of, and praised their conduct, lie could not call it liberal.—
The circulation of Ireland had been reduced below what i
ought to have been, and it was only to bc.sipplied 'by the
process of coinage, ,or- by an issue of paper, watch the Bark
had effected.

Mr. ABERCROMBY-rosa to speak on the question, but
Sir J. NEWPORT observed, that as the debate on the Ca-
tholic Disabilities Bill had been fixed for 'that night, ha hoped
the present discussion would not be proceeded with.
The further consideration of the Bill, as well as of the Ira
Bank Payments Bill, was postponed.to to-morrow.
ROMAN CATHOLIC DISABILITY REMOVAL BJ LL.
• The Order of the Day for' a Committee of th
whole House on the Roman Catholic Disability
Removal Bill being read,
HUTCHINSON said, that as the House had
come to that stage when the enactments respect-
ing the Roman Catholic Clergy were to-be con-
sidered, it became his duty to speak his opinion
respecting them. Though he might offend some
of the friends of the measure-by the warm ex-
pression of his feeling, he assured them that no-
thing could be more foreign to his intention than

to change the tone of thedebate. He had been
surrounded by several frieDds, deprecating the
line which he had intended to pursue; he had
received anonymous letters, cautioning.him as to
the injury he might do to the measure, and one
even assuring him that he would injure his indi.
vidual interest in the great city (Cork) which he

had the honour to represent. As to the latter
threat, he had always assured the Catholics that
he had never conceived himself entitled to their
peculiar thanks, and that in supporting their
claims, he felt he was supporting the interests
and strength of the Empire. Now, though he
felt gratitude for the temper in which the pre..
sent measure had been discussed by the oppo-
nents of the Catholics, especially by the Mem-
ber for Oxford, and though he approved of the
Bill for removing disabilities, and was anxious
that it should be carried into a law, he must de-
precate the enactments, which were called se:
curities, with which it was now to be accompani-
ed. He thought it right that the House should
not call for any securities; it was his firM cori-
viction that they were not necessary ; but if they
were necessary, were there no others to be found

than penal enactments against the Catholic
Clergy ? The friends of the measu're agreed, in-
deed, that the Bill gave no security if there was
any real danger ; they agreed that it was:highly--
penal, and would offend the Catholic. Clergy.;
but, said they, do not make any opposition to it,
for, however penal it may be, if it is now passed
to satisfy. some unfounded apprehensions, an en-1;
lightened -House of Commons will hereafter sr
.peal it---7(llear! from Mr. Peel.)-711is objection
to the first clause was, that it imposed a compal-4
sory oath on- all Catholic Clergymen—not only,
those who might hereafter enter into orders, bnt-
those who were already in orders. It was,ns to,
the present Catholic Clergy, an ex post facto law. -
What the punishment consequent on refusal wai
to be, did not appear. It might be transporta-.

Lion for life, or 14 years, or imprisonment for
life, or any other heavy penalty. He wished
to know an example in which any oath was in
this ex post facto manner imposed to be taken.
Many persons had great objections to take an
oath on any occasion—not only Quakers bu-:
often Protestants. Had they a right to say to
persons who had already entered into a certai-i
profession, " yon shall take a certain oath, in
order that the Duke of Norfolk may sit in the

House of Lords and his son in the house of Com-
mons 1" The House was not aware in behalf of
how important a body of men he was speaking,
when he raised his voice in behalf of the Catholic
Clergy. There could not be a more rf spectable,
or more powerful body, or one that exercised its
power more beneficially, and nothing could be
so mischievous as to offer them, such' an insult, as

to place them in this invidious situation, that
justice should not be (lone to the Nobility and
Gentry of their persuasion, unless they (the
Clergy) consented to degrade thernsetv.es. There
were in Ireland four Catholic Archbishops,
twenty-five Bishops, twelve hundred Parish
Priests, eight hundred Curates,, and between two
and three hundred Regulars. They were the
most ancient Clergy of either Island. The only

parallel to the oath now imposed upon them, was
that imposed after the Revolution in France, for
the refusal to take which the Clergy were sat,-
jected to deportation, the consequence of which
was that they fled to all parts of Europe. The
lion. Member for Bramber had a strong impres-
sion that the establishment of the Order of Je-
suits in England should be resisted. lie ec.nld
inform the .Honourable Member, that that Order
did not exist in England or Ireland canonically.
The Pope had objected to it precisely on the
ground that it was objected to by the British Go-
vernment. The words of the Bull were,—
" Ordo societatis Jesu non est restaurala in An-
glia quandogaidem guberniani Anglicanznon volt."
He should not urge his. objection further.
had received no instruction from the Clergy of
Ireland, except that letter which he had men-

tioned from Dr. Murphy. '['he 13ishops „were.
he understood, calling together their Clergy in
their several provinces. Ile would ask the No-
ble Lord (Lord Castlereagh,) who had displayed
his talents never so consPicuoosly as in then
discussions, what the effect would be if the Clergy
should decide not to take the oaths? if the Ca-
tholic Clergy had decidedly approved of tin
measure, he might have bo:ct silent, 'though he

aiiiii;ted the principle,-bht as what he had heard
from them on the subject was disapprobation, he
lieuld not for any set of men play a trick %sith
his conscience, or with the 'people of Ireland;
and -he expressed the disgust and abhorrence
which he felt for these enactments.
Lord CASTLEREAGH hoped the House would
indtilge him in a few observations. The Hon.
Gentleman who jnsheat down, had clone him but
justice in saying that he was incapable of giving
his support to any measure that could degrade
the Catholic Clerey in Ireland, or even any
thing which they, as honest men and conscien-
tious Catholics, could not consent to.—(hear,
hear!)—But he could not conceive there was any,
such quality in the Bill now before the house!
Its tendency was quite of the opposite charac-
ter. He was quite at a loss to know on what
solid grounds the Hoe. Gentleman (Who he knew
had nu object hat the honest discharge of his
duty) could represent the Bill in such a light.
He lamented extremely that the discharge of his
dots- compelled him to prosent such an odious
view of it to the Itonee—for he keeW how easy
a thing it was to raise scruples that would other-
wise have remained dormant, and by this means
frustrate the great object. We were not now
proceeding to the discussion of clauses, which
now, for the first time, were submitted to the
consideration of the House. They were such as
the head of the Church had himself expressed
his approbation of, and with all due respect to
the Right Rev. Personage to whom the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Hutchinson) had allnded, he
most say that the Hoese were sufficiently inform-
ed of the sentiments of the Catholic body at
large. to discharge a legislative function. lie
denied that they could in any degree be called
penal clauses. That surely could not be called
t penal clause which goes to remove all the severe
laws which have so long existed, whether justifi-
ed or not by the exigency of the times in which
they were enacted. They did not seem to calcu-
lete the effect of the existing law. They seem-
ed to be ignorant that, according to the existing
laws, a Catholic, by holding any communication
ssitit the See of Rome, exposes himself to consi-
elerable danger. He, therefore, looked upon it riot
:?_3 a measure of security but of indulgence. On
the simple principle of these securities, which it
was most important should be given, be could as-
sure the Honourable Gentleman (Mr.. Hut-
chinson) that he was not to be deterred by
any authorities that might be cited, or any
chemonrs that may he raised. He had to la-
.; set the melancholy perversion and versatility
of Dr. Milner ; but the best refutation that
could be given to h-im was to quote his own
opinions against himself.—!(fear, hear !) There
was another Gentleman (a Father Haves), of
whom the House had heard a great deal—
(Laughter)—and also another Gentleman in a
Learned profession in Ireland (a Mr. O'Connell),
whose talents never yet were employed to pro-
mote,either the tranquillity, the peace, or the
prosperity of his country.—(Hear !)—Now he
-must oao, that such opposition from such men
operated leis mind as additional inducements
to support the measure. He was sure the House
woold never surrender their understandings, or
wait until the Catholics of Ireland 'had assembled,
nor leave the gentkral interest and tranquillity of
the empire at h.azassi. The Parliament would
not, he was cure, suspend their-functions until
the Ecclesiastical Parliament in Dublin had
issued their decrees.—(Hear ! and laughter.)—
He conceived it was the bounden duty of .fkel.
House to proceed .fearlessly. They-had the ma-
terials and the information to go upon—they had
the highest authority in the CatholicsCioereh,ond
the experience of Europe, to direct them iu the
steps they were about to take; and if the Ca-e
tholic Clergy could be capable of refusing this,
aneastsre of conciliation for their flocks, the Par-
Forstoot should recall Mem to their dot'.
there ,es-er was a period when this principle
could be applied, " D 3 rniwitni4 non curet her,"
that period was the present.—(Hearl)—The oath
-simplo, implies this, that when all the clauses.-ire
aernoaed that prohibit the intercourse with llnme
they would not employ that advantage to any
evil purpose. To this we are told the Catholic
Clergy of Ireland newer car. consent. Why then
uhe Clergy of Ireland refuse their consent to
what all the Catholics of Christendom agree to
except themselves. The arrangement was quite
explicit With respect to the appointment of the
Bishops. The disappetsbatiou of the lirown was
effectual in preventing an individual from dis-
charging the 'religiOns functions. If the Hon.
Gentleman' (Mr. Hutchinson) could suggest an
amendment,' he was sure there was a disposition
in the House- to attend to it ; and as to this Bill
Tieing Lnally decisive, he was sure that at any
feture period, should it appear to the oCisdcm of
Parliament that they had taken -a wrong step,
they would•he always ready to retrace it. But,
he did not think there .any tise
arguer:pet that Catholics entertained any just
scruples ; had the authority of the head of the
Church for this assertioa ; he had the Pope at his
back.--(Much laughter.)—The Catholics could
not reasonably expect the privihsees of the other
Bill, unleso they were prepared to make these
concessions which the practice of Europe had
established. -He therefore hoped the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Hutchinson) would not allow.
his individual opinions to operate in -a manner so
foreign to his inclination. Ile must be aware
low difficult it is to effect any great measurti of
this kind, to 'allay the tumults that 'have so hing
. vinppiiy existed in Irelandoin such a 'rnanner,,
as at once to give general satiefutation. When ,a
Lindred measure towards the -Preslsoehians had
hsen carried, at first It gave general:dissatisfac-
tion, but he; never since heard 4, Presbyterian
speak of it except in termaef gratitude-; and he
had not the iii4,r'htest doliht that when the difficul-
ties that appeared An 'some timid minds were re-,
tveved, there Wae.enough of good sense:and sound
principle arlionipt Catholic clergy,to convert
the measure ho: the advantages it is intended to
bestowa—(Hear, Wear.)
Dr. Puteettoboo:opoke In favour olthe pro-
posed securitiA for the Protestant Establishment,
because, amoWg 'other ratons, he. thought that
:the faith of the House was pledged to enact those
Am /rides in conjunction with .the -Bill of CM),

cession; therefore, if tht 'one were rejected, he
should, however friendly to its principle, feel
himself bound to •vote against the latter.
Mr. Pelee (who Stood 'behind 'Lord Castle-
reagh) expressed a hope, that when the Noble
Lord had said he was legislating with the Pope
at his back, he did not mean to refer to the Gen-
tlemen immediately behind him (a laugh)—for
he was satisfied that none of those Gentlemen
bud much confidence or connection with his Ho-
liness. But he now rose to advert to what was
called the irritation and impopularity excited
ameng'the Catholics, in consequence of the pro-
posed securities or restrictions, as some described
them ; and he begged it to be understood, that
no part of that irritation or unpopularity could
be ascribed to him or to those Gentlemen who
had acted with him upon this subject,as they had
nothing to do in proposing or framing such pro-
-vis:ons. Those provisions, indeed, originated
solely with the advocates for Concession to the
Catholic Claims, neither 'himself nor his friends
having expressed any desiee whatever for such
enactments, althceogh that seemed to have been
insinuated ; at the same time, he thought it right
to say, that the party with whom 'he had the ho-
nour to act, was not al! disposed to make - com-
mon caul; with such objections as had been
urged this tight against the provisions alluded to,
or to obstruct the measure 'under tonsideration,
by contributing to excite any irritations or unpo-
pularity against it, upon such grounds as had been
stated.
Mr. FITZGERALD declared, that he could not
concur with his Honourable Friend the Member
for Cork in any attempt to deprecate the charac-
ter of this measure ; for it was, in his opinion, Of
the utmost coneeKnence, and not confined to the
mere question whether a Catholic Nobleman
should sit in the other House of Parliament, or
his son in that. But while he acknowledged the
great value of this tneasare to the Catholic Laity,
he could not forbear from deprecating the re-
striction which it meant to impose upon the .Ca-
tholic Clergy, who were, in fact, to derive no
benefit from its enactment. Upon this ground he
disapproved of the oath which it was proposed to
call upon the Catholic Clergy to take, as well
as of the nature of the commission to be appoint-
ed for facilitating communication between the
Pope and the Catholic Clergy, as well as of the
giant of a veto to the Crown upon the appoint-
ment of Catholic Bishops and Deans; for he
thought the creation of such powers derogatory
to the character of•the Catholic Clergy of Ire-
land, who were always among the most forward
to promote the morals, to preserve the peace, to
enforce the laws in that country. Why then
throw out sech an offensive and unjust suspicion
upon their loyalty and good disposition at the
present momeat.? But the establishment of a
Commission of revision with the veto would, he
was persuaded, be a most mischievous measure ;
for the Catholics could never be reconciled to the
grant of sack powers to a government essentially
hostile to their religion. The Catholic people
would always apprehend the abuse of such au-
thority, and it was much to be feared that its
exercise would serve to withdraw the laity from
that reverence which at present they were known
to feel towards their Clergy in such a remarka-
ble degree. These were not, he declared, the
suggestions of any Catholic Bishops or laymen,
but the firm convictions of his own mind, from
the moment that he had been able to put his
mind in possession of-the merits of the case. But
st4l, as few Members seemed to concur with him
in sentiment, he should not deem it expedient to
move any alteratiou is the Bill.
Mr. C. HurcniusoN, in explanation, disclaimed
any intention to deprecate the character of the
proposed concessions, as his Hone Friend ap-
peared to think, but upon the authority of an
eminent Catholic -Bishop he felt it his duty to
communicate to the House the apprehension
which existed that the restrictions to which he
bad alluded would serve to interfere! with :flie
acceptability of these concessions.
Mr. CANNING =felt himself called upon to,de-
dare, that unless the securities
‘proposed were
acceded to, could not reconcile ato his sease
of duty to vote fur the enactment of the conces-
sions. The Protestants., by agreeing to those
concessions, had sacrificed muci. of interest, as
welt as of prejudice, and was the House :to be
told that the Catholics would not is return sacri-
fice any thing ? But it was clearly understood
frcon the outset of those measures, that both
Should be adopted for the purpose of satisfying
-the Protestant as well as the Catholic.; and was
it possible to suppose that, after the measure of
concession had made such progress,'it could 'be
seriously intended or desired to violate that under-
standing by opposing the measure cif securities ?
If any man could meditate such, he was
sure that failure must be Lis :fate, for who
could found to sanction any -such attempt
to deprive the.Pretestant of that price Which it
was agreed lie should be paid for conceding to
the wishes of the Ca.thoY.c ? For his own part,
he trusted the conduct which he had uniformly
pursued with regard to this measure, placed him
above the suspicion of participating in the slight-
est degree in such an act of treachery. 3.1 e had
thn'te _enough, he hoped, to prove that he was
most sincerely desirous of effecting the emancipa-
tion
.of his Catholic fellow-subjects, from all the
restrictions under whit!h,they 'laboured ; hut if a
successful attempt should be made to detach froM
the BIN those clauses, which would have.the
effect
,of reconciling, the Protestant part of the
.community to the• measure; from • that moment,
with the same hearty sincerity with which he had
sacrificed every consideration to AO justice to the
Catholics, he would altogether reject the Bill,
which, passed in that-mutilated state, would be a
fraud upon the Protestants:_—Ofear !)
Sir G. .Hine said, that if he were really dis-
posed to proctile the rejection of the measure, he
thought be could not more effectually' promote
such an object' than by supporting the pro,
position of the Member for Cork. With regard
to the necessity of enforcing tine two main se-
curities for the, maintenance of the Protestant
interests; he begged to read to the House the
words of a distinguished Statesman.—" In grant-
ing an extension of the civil rights of the Ro-
man Catholic body, due prevision must be made 1

for the inviolable maintenance of the filigious
and civil establishments of the United Kingdom.
—Mitch must be done for mutual conciliation,
much for common 'safety. Many contending in-
terests must be reconciled, many jealousies must
be allayed, many long-cherished and mutually
destructive .prejudices must be eradicated."—
Such were the sentiments of a distinguished Mem-
ber .of the other House, which,. in his 'opinion,
over-balanced all the arguments he had heard
against the necessity of securities. Re -declared,
however, that if the present Bill should ;pass, no
Member in that 'House would be more anxious
than himself to reConcile'all parties to The mea-
sure.

Mr. It. MARTIN (GUCCIWiIy) said, that if there
was one county in- Ireland more likely than an-
other to return a Catholic Representative to that
House, he belieseti it was the county 'which he
had the honour to represent. That consideratioa.,
however, would not prevent him from supporting
loth the Bills, and whether he were likely to
have a Catholic competitor or not, he should vote
for going into the Committee.

Mr. C. ili..7TcHtN;oN begged to observe that
he had not sated that the Roman Catholic Clergy
of Ireland were against the Bill, for he had not
itherto bad any conunanication with them on the
su biect.

Mr. SIIAw said, he had no: heard of a single
Cat' olio in the county which he had the honour
to represent, who had not spoken of the Bill
in terms of the highest gratitude and satisfaction.
Mr. BARING thought it would be better to im-
pose the oaths, not upon those who were 1101 V
Catholic Priests, but on these who might 'be
hereafter ordained. Of the Thiests now in holy
orders, some might be well disposed, and others
might object to taking the oaths, and it would be
a very inconvenient and unpleasant operation to
call them together for the purpose of imposing
tfivse oaths. This was an observation, however,
which was better suited to the Committee than to
the present state of the Rouse, and he should
therefore reserve himself for that stage of the
Mr. S. RICE expressed his conviction that the
feeling of all the well-disposed Catholic popula-
tion of Ireland was favourable to the Bill. The
Hon. Member read to the House a letter from a
Catholic of the highest character end authority
in that part of Ireland in which he resided, in
which the Catholics were stated to be thankful
to the Legislature for the kind concessions which
were extended to them. He (Mr. R.) declared
that he should support the second Bill, not be-
cause he apprehended danger front the Catholics,
but because he wished to remove the fears and

apprehensions of the Protestants, and be entirely
concurred with the Right Hon. Member for
Liverpool (Mr. Canning), that to reject the se-
curities would be a fraud upon the Protestant,
and a violation of the pledge which had been
given to !naintain them.

Mr. P. Moo RE said, he had been engaged in a
very extensive correspondence upon this subject;
and he believed that it was in a great measure
owing to his exertions that the Bill was this year
brought-'
before the Tiouse.—(llear ! and a laugh.)
—Front the answers Willett 'had been returned

to his 4nquiries, and from the information
which he had been able to collect, lie could as-
sure the House 'that a general unanimity pre-
vailed among the Catholics whit respect to this
second Bill, though there might be some ardent
spirits still at work, who would twither be re-
conciled to that or any other measure.
Colonel BAGWELL, said, he was Convirroed that
the measure would he gratefully received as a
boon by the Catholics of Ireland in general, and
that it would promote the tranquillity and secu-
rity of that country.
The question was then put and agreed to, and the Speaker
having left the Chair,
Upon the first clause of tle.e Bill being read, which went to
enact that ail persons in holy orders should take and subscribe
the following oath within six calendar months after entering
upon the exercise of any eceleeiasfical functions,
Mr. BARING proposed, as an Amendment, the substitu-
tion of the words, " arl persons who shall be lereafter called
upon to exercise any spiritual functions."
Mr. GOULBURN said, that if the proposition of the Ho-
nourable Gentleman were adopted, it would be a direct viola-
tion of the pledge given to the Protestant part of the conutou-
nity, and of the conditions under which the Bill was understood
to receive the support of many Members in that 'House.
Mr. BARING said, he had no wish to press his Amend-
anent. At the same time he must observe, in answer to the
Honourable Gentleman who saw so much danger in the .ap-
pointment, of a Catholic Governor of Antigua, that it would be
extremely difficult to satisfy sue&a mind as his of the adequacy
of any securities.
Mr. GOULBURN explained.
A desultory conversation then ensued on the remaining
clauses, as they were nut by the Chairman in succesSion,
r.tween iiir J. Newport, tor. Phillimore, \lr. Baring, Lord Cas-
tlereagh, Mr. M.-Fitzgerald, Sir G. !fill, Mr. Peel, Mr. C.
Wynn, Mr. Bright, Mr. W. Courtenay, Sir 11. Parnell, Mr.
I'. Rubinson, Mr. Rice, and Mr. Tennyson ;- when, after some
partial modification, they were all substantially agreed to.
Mr. ELLIS (of Ibuigin) proposed a clause for more effectu-
ally excluding Roman Catholic P.2,r.k.sts from seats ,in that,

douse.
Mr. 'WYNN opposed it as unnecessary.
Mr. £LLIS said that his object was-to render the Bill liable
to as few e,:ceptiunt:
After a few Wordstfrom Sir J. NEWPORT, the clause was

Some verbal Amendozenti were then proposed and agreed t(4
in die preamble, after Ivirich the House resumed, and the Rep:lrtl
was ordered,tf, be ree:ired to-morrow.

' Sir T. -NEWPORT gave notice, that as the Repwrt was to
be 'brought up to-morrow, he would then move that the Bill
,shs,tild be reprinted, and fix Monday next for the third reading.
Mr. PEEL thourtht it but fair to state, that he had every
reason to believe that ,a division would take place on the third
reading of the Bill.
Thc other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Twelve o'Cloek.

Singular pr oof>. of the rzanl of Eduealion in Or-
fordshlre.----A witness in a pros(tcution for steal-
ing a lamb, an being asked if he could tell whe-
ther t#o skin of a lamb produced, aid the car-
cass of the lamb which he had b efore seen, cor-
responded, sapiently an wered, " He conid not tell,
for he was do schollard."—Anotber declared,
that he could neither speak to time Par date, for
the very same reason, " as he never took no ac-
count either atilt; one or the other !"