The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-11 00:00:00

teat; 'him a Committee of the HOuse, he (Mr. Ste- derived at a Cory small expense, which vvould'enable the:
"t Pr," ' sal nesunar burdens in less people of this country to use a very large quantity of it,
Ise 'l:= ivs'ntsee which the West and thereby add very much to their comfort and their
'icy' ' eised under had been the souse- happiness. It was argued however, that that should not
day
11,) • g;sliti,,r, of that House ; and yet to that be done. He now came to the inquiry, how was it that
theta to 'noes whatever lisd been made in assisting the people of this country should be unable to reap the
Leo tr 11" 'ahour which had been taken away from, benefit of their own labour, and of the peculiar advantages
"e 11 had, time- after time, been promised to them. which Providence hadgranted to various parts of the globe ?
ttied, them the supply of labour which had been pro- What was itwhich prevented them from obtaining this com-
01r
es„,r.
cp. thsn they would have production enough, and modity at a cheap rate, and thus increasing their coni-
fa .estion of differential duties would be set at rest forts ? What was the objection made by his Hon.
Me Bps Friend ? He gave a description of two classes of per.
to r
.',G=IT said, if
,ever protection_ had been shown sons, whom he portrayed. in very glowing terms. He
suzar ot en to the core, it had been shown in respect to first described the people of England, and then the pe.o-
tea,' , Protection to-the-West Indies had led to loss of pie of another portion of the globe, whom he would now
\\ln, 103 i cf profit, loss of comfort, Les of everything. designate generally by the term West Indians. He de-
ha,} prosperity had been promised'progressive ruin sired the people of this country to contemplate these two
met with. This old policy would them as pictures ; and so did he (Mr. Roebuck) desire them to
p)“,:tetid bring with it its usual attendant evilS, for as contemplate them. He described the people of England as
41,,4u5! ;ion increased supply diniinished. The present poor and suffering ; he pointed to them as persons la-
,,,estritntdhienGovernment would give two millions to bouring hard to obtain a pitiful subsistence, deprived of
planters ; but why should this be given, fuel and clothing, of warmth and food ; and he then
IZ, it robbed others and did no good to them ? For pointed to the favoured population of that colony from
rei:V Part, nothing should induce him to allow two whence this article of sugar was to be drawn. The bulk
tratl,"lts, or me million, or anything to be given to the of the inhabitants of the West Indies were described by
• of the
which he belonoed, and which had now become Isis • Hon. Friend as persons who could obtain the
Acrd h tile largest and most important of the country. means of subsistence with but little labour, 'and
helin:nia and hy had it become so ? Simply by the who enjoyed the comforts and luxuries of life.
ann ehelesome stimulus of competition. That Them he described as being bankrupt in fortune, as being
' oktl:rirdszi) way to make the West India interest and every unable to maintain their position, as striving to maintain
• sea t 4tereet prosperous. But if they would not con- that position which they had so long possessed, by means
this he had a plan te propose that, though not so of taxing the poor, impoverished people of England, for
irapriaand so wholesome as competition, would still be an the benefit of a similar impoverished and bankrupt class
Whanent, and a great one upon the . present system. of absentee proprietors. That was the description which
1,231 I'e should propose was, that a payment of his Honourable Friend had given. The poor people
tors 'OOOl. should be made to the West India proprie- of England, who were deprived of the advantages of
• thiek".n,l if they did not accept this offer he did not climate, were to be ground by a peculiar law, as the
the nouNley could have any claim on the country; and if lion. Gentleman said, for maintaining that class which
11,4 'eminent did not accede to such a payment for the Hon. Gentleman had so well described. Now he
tifieenefit of the country, he thought they were not jus- (Mr. Roebuck) had described what those West India
tseeearv°ting the snaffles for her Majesty's Govern- proprietors were. He said they were no proprietors at
etadit. 43 this case the monopolists were in a worse all ; those very men who now came forward, were mort-
, tesawban than the corn menopolists, as they had no gaged in their estates.—(" No," from Mr.Bernal.) No !
taiit.t-fsruters to plead for, and with regard to the la- Why he would like to know to whom the twenty millions
ti.% their principal objection was, that they could went? His Hon. Friend complained that theydid not go to
tle,',l't more labourers, so as to reduce the wages of them. He also complained that they were unrepresented.
141e,W110 were now employed. The monopoly in this Why, it was an imposition on the credulity of mankind
' IftaTe was, therefore, a bare-faced one. The ques- to make use of such expressions. Were they not a re-
in feet, was one of a majority of votes against the presented class in comparison to their real importance?
• Sele,ogs interests of the people and against • a principle Why, if they were represented according to their im-
The awisetleed on all sides to be sound.-(Hear, hear.) portance to the community, the fraction of a Member
the e Lord below him (Lord J. Russell) admitted would be all they really deserved. His Hen. Friend
ftlarrt'nciple of free trade, but lie appeared always to said this country had forced the West Indian proprietors
tallednen it was to be practically carried out. He into their present position ; but he (Mr. Roebuck) was
etle 13' its combinin all the nations of the earth in there to dispute that assertion. The West Indian pro-
deciarrotherhood. How inconsistent was this with his prietors themselves had fostered and protected that hor-
the a:tinn, that there ought to be a differential duty to rible trade—the slave trade. They were, originally, a
Weeineunt of forty per cent. in favour of British sugar. band of adventurers, and had themselves established that
that proposition knit in one common brotherhood trade. The people of England had never fostered its
thstl'eknstions of the earth ? The Noble Lord, also, in He defied his Hon. Friend to answer that assertion.
;Itrist?,uate on the Factor; question, admitted that the re- He (Mr. Roebuck) could trace the slave trade
'fba,;,"s lipou trade necessarily increased the hours of from Sir. John Hawkins downwards, and they would
The Noble Lord, the Member for, Dorsetshire, find it as he had stated ;—That a small band of adven-
. 'ntisn''''els expressed sympathy with the labouring poi
turers had taken
.possession of an island in the West
ft, of the country. He thought they had a right to Indies, and following the example set them by Spain,
(nail: the votes of all those persons on the present spread that devastating spot and plague over that por-
es There could be no prosperity for the country Lion of the world. They had nothing to do with Eng:
Itslg,tio as they continued to act on principles acknow- land in her collective capacity. The West India pro-
treat Ist° be unsound, and therefore injurious to the prietors adopted it as individual adventurers, and they
litano'd. of the people ; and that House could not hold were not now entitled to complain. When the people of
thee—, the affections of the people when they saw England at last saw the enormity of the mischief, they
the Oecting questiona which would so much advance interfered. But how did they interfere ? Why they
°eat:4f' interests of the country, and place in a gave those very proprietors compensation for their large
4r, t',,ondition the great mass of the people.—(Hear.) losses, and yet, in the face of the Imperial Parliament,
ProtranllEßNAL regretted that the discussion had been his Hon. Friend came forward and said that they were
kieCted sus long, and that they had been dragged not adequately compensated.—(Hear, hear.) Could it
itv 04 •g' • • •
entes into the discussion, for if gentlemen con- be said at that time of day, that it was not ample com-
fit tt with the West Indies were to stand there pensation ? He said that was a most magnificent corn-
ll:rsl3,:it would be said that they had no case. The pensation, given by them in support of the principle of
the os."ntieman
W who had just sat down, had hinted that those philanthropists who could not allow even the
the et of the West India proprietors was to reduce shadow of a claim to rest on the people who
the end”s of the labourers in their employ. Where was had propounded that principle of liberty. Was
• bot onnnlstency of the Han. Gentleman, who, if he was there any man who would tell him that it
tiaq'Staken had, both in and out of that House, was not a magnificent payment? He said that it was
lie hrted himself a friend to free emigration ? magnificent—that it was exorbitant—that it was an ex-
aadlistened with great attention to the moderate travagant payment. And if those proprietors bad been
kos sise views put forward by the Hon. Member for compelled to prove their losses, each and every one of
etal7ert, to whom he gave all credit for his ingenuity them, they would not have received a tithe of what they
'isisa.vj'aitan and he did not differ from him in the general had already received in the shape of compensation. And
ilt.a4l,,l"leh he advocated, and he (Mr. Bernal) did not yet his Hon. Friend turned round and said that they had
share as the advocate of monopoly ; but he stated not received sufficient compensation, and therefore he
',le-n• e‘4° as one of a body which ought not to be put stood .between the Hon. Member for Dumfries and the
tser,t
,xnerely because they might be weak. Their argu- House. Now he (Mr. Roebuck) contended that if the
•NI a mere chronological statement of their case, motion of the Hon. Member for Dumfries wereeaffirmed,
;"Ifeest' had repeated over and over again. It was Almost the result would be that an enormous increase in the
, ititerts:ng to do so because it was presumed that hehad an revenue would accrue to the State. He was not stating
)41.18,-' and it was known that it was so. In the a fanciful case. If they were to equalise the duty on
eight n that great, wise, and salutary measure of Eman- sugar from every quarter of the globe, he said that. there
a'nht'.,' was passed, with a provision that seven or would be a large increase of revenue. Then came the
r'''neni,ears of apprenticeship should follow. He did not question, who was it that interfered with the people of
'rea, all say that the West India proprietors were free England and their desires? That was the question.
‘trith blame, but what he blamed the Government for The Hon. Member for Weymouth interfered. He said
thentnPeet to this measure was, that they hurried it " You paid us badly for our slaves, and therefore for all
the \,," without taking the necessary steps of apprising time to come you have to tax the people of England in
haetrent. Indian proprietors of the change. In this favour of us." Was there common sense in that pro-
aleT' -on • the contrary, the change from vassal- posal? His Hon. Friend had described the people of
and L'o freedom was brought about . gradually, England as impoverished and wretched; and he de.
AliettYtActs of Parliament one succeeding the other. scribed the inhabitants of the West Indies as, being ex-
-14'N4,1838, the House declared that the state of ap- ceedingly well clothed, and well fed, and extremely well
:tshota'soip should be abolished, and that it Was better housed. That was to say that in the West Indies a
Nef4Rl teriiiinate at once • and that they should pro • large party of the population, namely, the free blacks,
ra.'° the condition of free master and free labourer. were extremely happy. That was the description of his
a; related to the conduct of the slaves, who had Hon. Friend; and in giving that description he made this
kes,^:su from a state of bondage to the condition of free- very extraordinary statement:—" We warned you
aecceyadmitted that the experiment had been fully against this—we told you what would happen, and I
js'ul,-- (Hear, hear) and he believed that no fear it has so happened, and that no revolt has worked
lea4r "1-e"an proprietor in his senses, would wash to a change." That was the statement of his Hon. Friend
tikti t 4) the old s stere but as far as related to the cul- —he feared to contemplate the result of a people's hap-
Ns it e°4 of Jamaicya it certainly had not been. successful -piness. Were not the people in the West Indies well
ananetailearison had been drawn between the state of clothed, and well fed, and happy? Oh, yes, they were;
aas a i
?d difference—an this country. Now it was totally different. -but then there were certain persons called the West
3O'n essential difference,' in the India interest, who had been accustomed to a certain
Part Of' only the smallest exertion was required on the position in society, likely to be reduced from that
etnaathe ;wive population of Jamaica to procure the position in consequence of these wretches not working.
liens
tits and even the luxuries of, life ; for the produc- Hon. Gentlemen opposite complained in the same
peal,;:ere were soon brought to perfection under a tro- manner about the corn-laws.--(Hear, hear.) What,
rtlcliti•``a• They had little necessity for Clothing. The should it be said that his Hon. Friend could advocate
• ,Serers were en of the population of Yorkshire, where the a free trade in corn, and in the same breath advocate a
vtte,r paid high wages, was totally different.— restriction in the trade in sugar?
teates; hear.)• With all their exertions they, could - Mr. BERNAL dissented.
gasal make both ends of the year meet, and he Mr. ROEBUCK continued—Oh, yes; but ,his Hon.
/snaat had frequently seen persons brought before the .Friend advocated a fixed duty, which was always to be
this 4 rales for picking up fire-wood. How could• they fluctuating—which was to be regulated by the aspect of
eine r,thrat the population of Jamaica, under the favour- _the political Sky, being Bs. to-day, and perhaps is. to-
414,eunistances he had stated, would apply them- morrow. The sugar trade was protected by his Hon.
an~ar°o") continuous labour, and the cultivation of the -Friend, and the corn trade by the Right Hon. Gentleman
~elnea',,ane was of such a nature, particularly at certain the Member for Kent (Sir E. Knatchbull). Were they.
;kiStet, to require continuous exertion. The sun to legislate with respect to the trade in sugar, so as to
-:)ki.)ie sugar cane, but it also raised a multitude of maintain the West India proprietors in that society
nt and parasetic weeds, which choked its growth, which they had so long adorned ?—(Hear, hear, ironi-
'•
e ,awas constantly attended to; and-the land cleared cally from Mr. Bernal.) " Hear, hear"—this was, no
era; ,04. his required -a* continuity of labour, and the doubt, a sharp shaft ; but if he had drawn his bow and
tt,rs Pulatton could not be depended upon when they pointed it at the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member
'ea anted. , They had much land Of their own which for lient, his Hon. Friend would have said "Hear, hear,"
te,Preirerred attending to. The peasantry there rode in. a., • different tone.—(Cheers.). Ile (Mr. Roebuck)
`erred
on their own poneys.--(Hear, hear.) He hoped that the doctrine of, fiee-lrade would be consi-
thnualitt;)"le .to show the difference which existed in the dered without reference to these distinctions.—(Hear,
tanell of the people of both countries. They had hear.) • The great principle of bun in the cheapest
ti,tee a„ e a dense population which depended for subsist- and'Selling in the dearest market ought to be taken as
bane
IL,`ttbeir exertions. It might be said, why did theynot , the . motto in all commercial transactions, and
114fe ti;4onrers by contract ?abut unfortunately in this it- ought not to be crossed' by partial' and
, People would hurry over the work, and, as. they_ petty personal considerations.—(Cheers.) He looked
jtis tOO wand of an enchanter, 'or the' power of Cad- upon the question of sugar as a question far greater in
o %.:13 Bate people, they could not get them to work, importance than the question:of corn: He believed that
ihnnont."'"Y on the Bth of May last that the Noble Lord' if they had a free trade in sugar, an immense in-
e:trit,':' tile Secretary for the Colonies, issued his final crease in the importation of that hartcle would take
tirtsenieu to the Governor of Sierra Leone to abate manufacture in one day, and in return for that importation the
wZeitrictions upon the immigration of Africans to rs of country would send the produce
Were `.` Tidies ; mid then they were told that the shac- of their industry in payment for it. Why should the
keta 1:Ich fettered-them had been removed, and they Weit Indies be favoured_ anymore than any other part
Zl.,°,,werinws in a condition to contend with the sugar- .of the globe ? In the West Indies revolts and blood-
tont rep; Manilla, Java, and Cuba. It was said they shed had been of frequent' occurrence, ever since they
speni!v,ed compensation. It was most disagreeable had been attached to this country ; while they had been.
,4a 11„,i` on the subject. It was either compensation or it an enormous expense to England. The West Indies
etiee.7-.-Pear.) He would ask whether 300/. a year was were reoload upon us a and if a sudden gust could sweep
!et' keen34,'''''n to any individual for 500 0001. or 600,000/.? these Wanda from.the face of the earth, England would
tti iantorinstances where for the last five or six years not lose. one jot of her strength—not one penny of her
tlePres,,,,v had been making the. most painful effhrts wealth—not a single instrument of her power would be
4 e their credit, suffering every species of priva- climiniShed by the sudden disappearance of these islands
41a7ionirfilee,,atsainpt... They might say they had made from the face of the globe. Tie could not conclude with-
nt tsa 'Test
gift ; but when they talked of compensat- out
.expressing 'his Surprise at the.eit.trayagaqt attempts
4ted lndia proprietors, he• denied it. He re- Which lied been made to draw a distinction between the
th
aa_s_, he had stated before, that they had taken produce that was slave grown and that which was not.
liht thus fallen into the trap which was laid for How ridiculous were these distinctions when it was im-
1/ en., e utterly denied that they had been anything possible for any man to thirds for one moment of the ars
nri3eensated by the sum which was granted. An tidies of cotton'and coffee without considering that those
liZers ha," of his had said that the West India pro- were the produce' of - the 'slavery-upholding country of
tOged been hoodwinked by being absentees. He America. These distinctions were ',mere slanders, false
habit inforin him that Many of them had been in and fleeting, and raisedfor the purpose of deceiving the
1,14 from time to time, of visiting' their estates; people of England.. The great principle of free trade
40,14 sory to add that the visit had often would be found, by extending commercial salvation to
tenet
hued "with mischievous effects. They add in- every portion of the globe, and by uniting together the
tePit eaaee+hbles of their own, which had had a very if- various portions of the habitable globe in the great bond
(le' wheth" from that which was intended. He doubted, of interest, to be the means of-spreading -happiness and
as. eatrabsenteeism was necessarily an evil. With- amityall over the world:
s,
its
eslat:ln degree of confidence, it was impossible that Lord SANDON would not have taken any part
Gentlemaneould roperly managed ; he appealed to in the debate at the present stage of the question had it
tk-,lller hi extensively engaged in commerce not been for the language which had been
etiii" The-sr statement did not hold.good with respect to held by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. It
tha jai e was no were carried
the world in which agri- he could be convinced that the view which the Hon. and
sealti Jatbvenannts were _carried to a greater extent Learned Gentleman took of the importance of these
den Pete ‘J'aica- It was said that they did nothing to colonies to the prosperity of the empire was correct,
C° Manilla and Other places, but he confi- although he could not agree with him as to the justice
• loy ntrallicted Abut statement. —(Hear, hear.) of the course which he proposed, yet he might be con-
,' h,, ('re
ateil they told that they, wanted a sum of money. vinced of its expediency; but when he looked to the pre-
etect'oee tsu wanted ant,, common justice. The Hon. sent circumstances of the world when he saw a system
btkt,eXiot ,S6-itkpQrt had referred to monopolies in of restriction gradually growing up around us, and that
Leti' his ,Thyin 'nth etiletiial interest; but he begged to the more nations advanced in the freedom of their poll-
:4l,l!l%tia,e;seot
yf e" (e) °entry
at -he projectors .of those monopolies tical institutions the more averse they seemed to be
est that stP
ney were bound up with the great in- to the establishment of freedom of commerce, he
at large; and fhat the columns of could not consider these West Indian colonies, which
,eneas e ere in reality the pillars of the empire's . consumed 'British manufactures of the annual value of
`sarePl, tcatc of llFar, hear.) He agreed with his Hon. three millions, in which there could be no hostile tariffs,
this topic ought not to be made the watch- the inhabitants of which spoke our own language, pro-
, nil! nite",,rtY- Ile for one was so sick of the subject, fessed our own religion, and were of our own blood, as
that; WoehiT were any possible means of escaping from of no value. They had been told of the importance of
ti "0.14 h":_, most happy to do so. But in many cases the trade with the Brazils. Why,. the exports of Bri-
be wte Pt°Der:lhecome
e t 0
00
his landlord, shortly after taking tish manufactures to the West Indies were of infinitely
antooele not S' declaring that if he retained possession greater value than the exports to the Brazils; and what
k °lble the the rent • in fact it was im- reason was there why they should be neglected because
hrt‘vls4oll estates could pay on'the present system. they were part of the British empire? This was not a
ha as as nosFstlthe state of the facts. He had been as question regarding a few West India proprietors only.
fitunee'liv-nane; but they could not expect men who Had they forgotten the importance of the West India
Anent in comparative affluence to be ruined_ colonies to the revenue, to the commerce, and to the
Waal; liesilaiUleir voice against the cause of their ruin- shipping interest of the country. -Looking only to the
"atleacl just sat said he was sure his Hon. Friend interests of the proprietors, they should recollect that
etaia *O,, down would not accuse him of doing there had been a time when they received for the West
Riaa„not her l!ersonal motive's on that occasion; hut he India estates upwards of 3,000,000/. annually, which was
verP, feeling that a man's opinions might be spent in this country. Was that so small a contribution
cry
match by Isis peculiar position, and his to the wealth of the country as to be considered of no
teetivilt anv
eny, affected by his own pecuniary interest, value ? Both the enemies and the friends of this country
fCs enwe being able to attribute to him improper had at that time considered them of great value and im-
ket rasan , lie took his Hon. Friend in his trde portance. They had been told a great deal about
es ' hi: , adv,-Icate for the West Indian, which was, in free trade. Now, all the writers on free trade ad.-
~ his '4ll 110,interest, But before he touched upon any mitted that colonies had a claim to have their
0111. osrable
-as - Friend's arguments, 'he would en- produce admitted at a discriminating duty wherever
inoettTiestionr) yat to. bring before the House the the' mother-country imposed upon them peculiar
IN whi a Issue. There was a large com- burdens. Now, it mattered not whether that pecu-
ktaal:appinel3an ministered materially to the comforts liar burden were a tax or a restriction of labour. No
the t4s;vilich •, the people of England, namely, doubt the compensation of 20,000,000/. was a magnifi-
' uoe. From
be derived from a large surface of cent sum for this country to give, but it did not compen-
'"' °no. part of the globe it could be sate those who had to receive it. Many of those who