The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-23 00:00:00

of C°llsir
BUch
01, the
jolt a' el
r - gene
ch were As
broom •
dif
refullyCOecw
, .
firwlY
,ouid.to de,
that
c0a66W171
:10Per'w

iPt the sufferings of their . fellow countrymen, that
fig` Would seem to juStify those excesses,--( Hear, hear.).
infir, WAIW liras of opinieh that ll the state-
-enti of tte Coble Lord tended to- bear outy the ar-
°otzr, nrged-by thnse who opposed • the - motion.
the ,Noble Lord had slid, from his own observation, that
s ' #.4bitritions of the poor were, in snitee and iiirinesS,
thlheleri.iiir to those of the agricultural labourers, and that
te,,,` Ivag'es averaged ten shillings. a head. The' Noble
tie"' hall further testified 'that in_the diStriet, Which the
10iernber for linareshorough represented as a Pan-
rllll°Dinfo, the people" were far . better . off than in
iealtural districts. That
,was the district in which
th:11: rt. 'Member for Manchester had told them that
th-Eln,Migrants from the agricultural districts . said
11:,,Vney would prefer transPortition to going back to
ber'ulionshire.--.=(Cheers.) With all these proofs
th le- it, he hotietFthe'CoMmittee would re-considet•
e,„.."eisjosi to which it had come, and that they would.
11• '''eensider it upon the - evidence of the Noble Lord
tVlielfrig- to What he had` seen. ' All were agreed that
ere sv..
fen ~ , a great pressure , upon the la bOUring ipiipula-
cksi'°i' tUe-conntry. He could_show`tiri infinitely worse
the ,„" the town- which he represented than any which
neeLlble Lord had adduced. The children, from stern
ling-'itY, and not- TrOin ' avarice, were compelled to la-
,r f,;„___.
tic% ~-.11 an early age. There was no time for recrea-
,.(it-T,O thrie for education—no time for moral training.
irtca;rt.) It Would' certainly be better for' all classes
lis in e; °Peratives- .could ' earn as much in ten hours
Uteri-, 'welYe.' • They didnot want Mr. Horner to inform
pirs' '4B- to the evils of* excessive •werking. But the
..
bare was. universal—every one was compelled to
of thssalear; hear.), He was the
yepresentative of one
eotthr large-it working men's constituencies in . this
th,i!!rY, and he said that•he knew the evil existed, and
defier could not be cured by an• Act of Parliament. He
ei, 'led that the prOpolitinn' of the Noble Lord had,
eh a
t,tr reat -litr ilse., ti-i -Chartist ' principles.—(Hear„
*liie'h and Oh, oh.) - Ire -believed. thatiall the. theories
bee,-. be had heard in the course of this debate had
lhoZ.vreviOlislYadvdeated. in the ChartiSt press, and at
Ile- singsalee - whbre Mr. Oastler and his party attended.
toil regret
na te that. the respectable names which were
'N'Et.' amongst the leaders of -the party to Which he
v.attem.
New-tied had- lent their sanction to thOse doctrines
,*ll4-...ue had often heard before, but never betbre frQllllllOll
Zol„i"' e,..r0 not too ridiculous to be se ri nus.ly at tended to. The
"1 ih.„` l'ord the Member for Sunderlan I did not indee
I-t-ii's an entire' concurrence in these, doctrines';
ktici,-,,e expressed a' modified concurrence With them,
1N:1e result Would be to associate the
.concur 7
11,N, °i luatiy respectable Political men in that
Itc! ;etitli the names of mere demagogues ' out of it.
,1,,1R11-1/4:`,.._4(terwards .he wished 6i-cry - man to earn as
stirtose4 as he. could, amd .contended that a slight
lia craelit of the hours of labour would not affect them
NoL'4l.'' Ro(Mr: Ward must entreat the House to
'bilFr,„tthat the' home trade of this country was wholly
tkiti;;;;6llt Waupply the-slithteSt diminution that might
ki„rt:aee in the -forei
klI ; ThaY Were warned the other
`',itt gn the Right Hon: Baronet Opposite (Sir It. Peel)
'' f'' the
had to ' deal with an export trade'
4Ni4Y EnilliOni,' thirty-Six di. which belonged
pi,
0Y to the foreign trade of ,thia, .coiintry; and he, for
411Z1' Part, sra,,s-mtis6egl that in, ,any_ new curtailment
441p,cuar that Committee might authorise,. it. would be-
tit .4iblo to fill up' therap::-Therproposed to cut off
441130.1111 t of production which was 'eanifalent to seven
'ohs t.n the year; and it had been said by the sup-
,..st;,.„,f the curtailment, that in consequence of it
Ns"s'Wouldbe ereetek-and. new hands 'be put to
(4. ..
Ile
eitri h (Mr. ward). very. match doubted this.-
I,(ttlialeesj.) It must be recollected they had been
441riii..: ,this Bill was only the 'firat step in this sort of
.11 ,"un,- for the Niible Lord (Ashley)- and others,
itdbit;„l)Nale(l.-to, had 'admitted that -Other branches of
\'''ttn•-•',_ Would be subjected- to: the same .process.--
I,ipittuear.) Every business which -called for their
k teY and assistance was- to have it ff(Elear, hear.)o
i„.1%(4i1-lhey were told -14 thellon:- Member f0r...1d-
li.',_srool:.4jelden),that eightdiours Was the. roper.. One
Oletile proper roportion of the twenty-fonr
illi hi at Man should give to-labottr:- But the working ,
i'ttleAlatself went much further-than this, ' for he
thr'l,`` for , six hours, , for' four.. hours, for two,
IlLsZlo,1"--(. Laughter.), Jr& did not
.Say . that
-1
rtklllg people advocated getting a liveli-
011,*„iout :labour at all,—but they almost ati.
tN-"-,\l• "They thought and argued that the same
l/Pl tepn" wages would in the end be divided. amongst
itiifib-,,,ftw hours' labour as fur fourteen.-••-("- No.")
tb: -,e,,,i-,Ar.-Ward) could show-evidence of ' what he
bland ti;merfee of the operatiVes 'themselves,- who main-
,lllltht at within three months of the assing of that
" Li/ would get the same wagee.for ten hours as they
t°,4 kit; for twelve, and-they calculated on another ad-
i(Lvinri aaloely; that there'svouldbe the same demand
t,,,_'"Y h„- al before, and which would call into action
Cliit`-"3011s who- now did no work at all. -And, if ne.
l4p,„neY were prepared to require that no per. forson
-
ty9 4id,lir for more than nine,-or ;even eight hours ,
tktl4titec,4 was better they-should be compelled, by le-
ttia•VQ
46 'oactinent, to
,work thoSe hours only, 'rather an
44._ L Y persons whatever that Aid not work at all.
tn'at e.“..ear, from Mr. Ferrara) Well, then, who would
L'`!ti,,l;Pltal under such a precarious system as this ?
tlllltbeelir.) No one !—(Hear; hear?) . And the con-
-4 the 4`,.Ckld be that foreign capital would - step in and
;1.14: t,,• xeade which now belonged •to us. And
Ntel 'working-people themselves,kti° theselVes, they would
t., •_.
,1:1;-siRY4. Place them ~at the' mercy"'
of . mere
ti4k.*) and- they.. would.- sharpen the competition
tit‘Nrlt4 Already too intense.—(Hear, hear): Now,'
11,e,tilt..be 'decision : which the House came to the
M 1,71, stet' utg would certainly have its advantages, but
11ik.,4 Wool should find sense enough in that House
thOhei,li'_l induce . Hon. Members' to -do manfully
Nit; -ntuer (night to de. `They 'must Combat the
'il linti,-"Is so widely. disseminated, not only by iodi--
'Oyre"„"Y the press,. and which were reallyealcu-
Net "'rile all thersound notions which had hitherto
tit) f,44011. these subjects.—(Hear, hear.) He
.(Mr.
t' a hioi,"4' the :Govern:tient accused by those Jour,
lithe 't) -" Ospally • . h with being parties
hrit,,,, supported,t em,
•,,L4treld'Vng of-the Queen's name. into •contempt, and
'Pte -"'ag between -her 'Majesty and that House
;,''',l'e..„l:l4l°liairdently wished
.to grant, by 'reducing to -
~, i%. 48 theyt ard the labour of her sex.—(Hear, hear.)
~'llld'Pg• 11,e a man in that Committee—was there A
'l;t-,,"ethcsa in the cOuntrY—that, believed the Queen
i15.,,%14e ..----(Ch ) The dire hecessi ty for labour
17' th':' ' liclea.;`l,eul all, -their best intentions .too.--.-
IL't T.,1 4%.,.) ' If A Committee' of that House could
i's bl'hile, "was it that the Noble Lord, the Member -
'Ait -;,,(Lord 'John Russell)." had not 'attempted.
~,4 t.,")4i,"bg the ten 'years he had been' in office ?-.--
rl Zsl, and
anguish,.
was; responsible for all the tinneces-
,ll for !•I_, nguish,.and immorality which had been
s'iL:.'ird‘ Ine last ten years.---(Hear, hear.) - If he
lo ll e ' lelt• that the house was .competent to this
,:'klt4) 'O-ftoftl he tould indulge 'the honest hope -d it—
it 0144 join with the .Noble Lord (Ashley), and
Zkil,klip,' 'lot for a• T -Roma' Bill=for that would
'Niti'llr,;.;-'4lll.tta.nee—biir he would go .at once for an
i,'llielt„tip f di•-•-he'ivOilld give at once the means of
itNnonint: the misery and long suffering which the-
-o.th' tli;6 °Peratives ' hid' .go '6.. 'through. That
,tk,,e4t...ere... -'ttrcinal course. But' the House Tiny not
k',t,,,••rs,) thet did' hey Mean to do with agricuiture?
4,'itt!'sdiert:(Mr. Ward) knew something of theie
ILl,t s Ilki ad seen the miserable' shifts to which the
1ir'4,211:,t ther,,been redneed.4--(Flear, hear.) They could
yi:iged t" or their wages as they now were, if they
0 ~, t,,, ,ii 11 ter fe re with` the aperatives.• As to their
tit'll,„_`ti4h4l,te•Wagea it was mere ninsense.. If they
kIN7 th'e-.."', benefit operative and labourer they
1•4„`N‘,...1 ,''otojt`ruggie for bread: . They could- do.. this;
,‘ "SC,l,y m,,,.
,flot,Tor to their corn-laws they clung as
IA '',lttit \ nOt -'.
"et*: The 'Net& Lord scnietimes
.
kl,'tirie of irrsonally certainly), bat 'classes with
\' -tied •uniallitY," while • 'at " the same time .
14,,, 1v,)..„,...14 . what he (Mr. Ward) must .be
'',,i,'! tie hY, 0.1- as. -a spurious humanity of his,
,rei,„, ,tiota of eQuld tell _that Noble Lerd that a very
!Ikl..istlit. his fellow-countrymen looked' ith ex-,
i'7l:l:tbet,4-41 upon him, so long as 'they saw hire..
ticllii,ot 4eruel I3ill, which enhanced the price of
:11ki „tftl44. ad•--(Loud cheers.) There must .be no
110,:,so,;; motters.—(Cheers.) He made no accui
1 N Say,!tei. not against the Noble Lord ; but he and :
sl
,y,,,..1 by tgbeblog to stand-there to-be tarinted. with-
In hop" oCc`°se very peraons whose-votes in that
V 1)„-s bt !I-toned; bY thehigh price of bread, 'all
k,to be "exhausting to i• which they affected- so.
' 'visa,. - bl
e,. As to married females, the No, e
iiog.eru.i as ue had done On several other polhts,
bill, kills "s• The employment of married fe-.
tilltr,ll4y
vywea.ssi.,extitertiely small. He believed, that:
Iki 10"Irrie4 "pm find in the northern districts of
411;140i4_,1..44
~,,..rernales performing their domestic
oi,'lll 4L-u his ,7"u Part.• he - should. go with perfect
li,,tt, iprt ,_`•°l?stittients, in consequence of the vote .
LN4 ' 't_L thene subject.—(Hear, hewn)
1 t -...
S,
Otth i4--...roSe tO address the House. .11. e:
Sit't4,eii Lark in 37„ but 011 • the present occaironliad
ti 4o ''abiiit l'ee of Ministers deriving support.
liss,ltif,,:'lla '
eylnuoPponents; and being• opposed by.
to. Itv,:hetiley ,v,P_Ported them.(Hear, hear.) The:
,N, r fii ,-re now called upon- to Affirm was.
'bt 414. to V should reseind• a solemn decision of
)141raliv 'h. lb Committee''after
•
says 61e`, .. ,16-4 , e had come, •
~44),Zte VP,ell:tOvate, And to which a larger MR,'
ivq,d J, ,4isterQr sup_port then attended her Ma-
it ~ b ',which -• ' (Hear, hear.) He recollected an
!1 44 itl". thEtt a resolution -of the House was re-
tt4t t,tipourillp. t.,/_vita with ;respect to the • malt-tak.
Vie votior. the
Government of Lord Grey; but
d 4, WarhertUld not be , sacrificed.:-,-(Hear,
,154,e1e!.4_ Ment t4l3.llB.ltglit Hoti.Triendat the head 11._. Nittte,pon. the
econsider this question well before
0;,; 444 s to su cflarge.he would pursue. They had
loypets_bey rausPPose that they would have less
100ta rtioN. . !..teake eare how, they disappointed
(Sir 111 Inglis) had received
ttl;t;:\t-I(ta Leedsti II
"iflzSlitee,-., Jilt tr,44_ll.tireatUbde,;n, Bolton, Huddersfield,-
PLeei; in all: of which r\tcl.4lll4&`:le other' .tueni for the vote came to by •
r'll' ted tbk,:nlght.—(llear, hear.) The people.
:',.l.lttiq . re ~,,h,„ , they gave their joyftil thadks to the
NNii „s..(the ii_,T,eted for the .Noble Lord's proposi-
. dearv, h !Ole Lord himself fur the part he had
NI clt 's •Jikelf-r•)none. himself he believed, that
V'lt -ger th_. but
~t .--io Govern• `Friend at present at the
Avi,,,.x. j„.74e ,
,N,..,_,ment remained there, or
ki,l,',Otlell ii.."_ul Lord the Member for , the
N.4j11,, tit'x for tjouuld be there, or his Noble Friend
10i 1 y iZers.) Ir.selsbire, the Bill was, in fact, car-
iti:ll,l9 4,,i4!), „, was useless .to suppose, whatev
.I;lvplvir.:',ll,:iii(;""cvi'a_gsotargrae
jt,eidn that llonse that wheer
against them' a Ministry
n L!4k 'aim re theetiari,,,h.ear.) When the. Ecclesiastical
riktie tit ''''t• cart -s' Year, he urged upon them that
.540 e shin 4' the Bill, tind he told them not to
4.,. b.- .4t . &through the dirt, as he was sure a
\e(''',l4‘ liell664‘xfult-,n1,64
last
n'tioa-uirt would •
Nelott saletll‘triy4tdthheein.—(Hear, hear.)
might be- fur a mo-
th:k.ti ecirilmilit
;resent Ministers
. ttl,y
aar,ol44.,,,,_Alanaectellio:p3t:Swit6itilin4S-betif
hy at, 'i:tly ,11.'ll to coi*, I'ol%w-tied- .with a Bill `c‘'n-
thhil4oNobluZfiriiiitteridii
the grace of concession.—

•
(Hear.) . They-were dealing now., with the bOdies and
souls of their fellow-men, They allowed no time, not
even for recreation or education, because. the Sunday
was looked to for repose and not instruction. He had
listened to the speech of the Right Honsl'aronet at the
head of the Government, and the Hon. Member for
Clithern, but he had heard nothing from them. that did
not apply equally to the existing law as to.that proposed
by his Roble Friend the, Member for Dorsetshire. The
'whole was a'qtiestion not of principle but degree, and
not that only but of time. (Hear.) -The question must
be carried, and it did not matter whether it , took place
in 1844 or 1846.- .If there was any error in the conclu-
sions of his Noble-Friend, it, lay. in their hands to rec-
tify it, as-the Bill-Would not take effect till October, 1844,
and it' did not attain' its minimum till 1846.—(Hear.)
In that interval, if it should appear that any error had-
been-coMmitted, they .would be able to correct it, for
they.'retainect the power in their own hands. It was his
'conviction that no 'such dangerous eonseqUences would
ensue, and he believed that ',any. unfavourable conse-
quences would be more than compensated for by-the ins
creased physical comfort of the labouring population.
He believed that the' increase in their physical comforts,
consequent upon the diminution of the hours of labour,
would more than compensate them for the loss.of the
few hones' extra pay. It had been stated by his Hon.
Friend, the Member for, Pontefratt, that the' last two
hours of labour must, in, the nature of things, be the
most unprofitable; and. here he came to.the factory sta-
tistics. It appeared that the greater number of accidents
to children occurred during the last two hours. The la-
bourers were exhausted, with their toil, and they went
through the last two hours of their work unconsciously.
There would:therefore, be a diminution of the number
of aceidents, in consequence of a diminution of the hours
'of labour. They bad heard, on high authority, of the
sufferings of the agricultural population: On Monday,
they had been -told that even women had been kept to
hard labour in the -fields of England for seen .or eight
hours of a winter's day without changing their clothes.
Now he would ask any one to point:out in what county
of England the women laboured in the fields for eight
hours of a winter's day ?
An Hots. MEMI3IIII:—NOt of a winter's day.
Sir It H. INGLIS—The whole argument was, that
it was during the inclement season -of -winter. For his
part, he believed that, the thing was physically impos-
sible: ' At all exents; lie .6,,t never-heard of it. -But
they had not the same power of remedying- the suffer-
ings of the agrictiltural popitlatimi. It Was not politi-
cally pessible to redress the sufferings of, the agricul-
tural.poor as they could the. sufferings of the manufacs
turing-poons
.In the case "of the manufacturing poor
they had the power of regulatingthe hours- of labour
by stopping thilgreat machine by which the labour of
all the human accessories was regulated. They bad
not the power' of regulating the
.hours 'of agricultural
labour; and where there was no power there could be
no 'responsibility. They had the power of regulating
the hours of, abour in the manufactories, and therefore
it was their duty. to da, so.—(Checrs.). He bad on
fOriner occasions stated his opinion on this subject, and
he thanked the Coinmittee-for the attention with which
they had listened•to'him.—(Cheers.)
Mr. CoLLETT and Mr. C. BuLLEtt rose together for
the purpose of addressing the Committee, and for some
time neither Hon. Gentlemen would give way. There
were lciud -calls for Mr. C. Buller. After the lapse of
about a miuute both Hon. Gentlemen sat down, but im-
mediately afterwards both rose together again. There
were loud cries of " Buller,' "Buller," " Chair,
Chair," and the greatest uproar and confusion. pre-
vailed. Mr. Hawes, . who had previously been in com-
munication with Mr. Collett, then advanced to Mr. C.
Buller and said something, in consequence of which Mr.
C. Buller resumed his seat, but the cries of " Buller"
" Buller," still continuing, he rose again and advanced to
the table ; Mr. Collett, however, continued on his legs.,
The cries of " Chair, Chair," then became general
throughout the House. and Sir C. Napier addressed some
words .to the Chairman, which were inaudible. At
length after a lapse of 'four minutes, during which time
Mr. Collett and Mr. C. Haller retained their respective
positions, Mr. Collett gave way, and '
Mr. C. BULLER proceeded to address the Committee.
He said that her Majesty's Government were going to-
night to adopt the extraordinary step of calling on the
House,,on the eighth clause of the Bill, to make the Bill
nonsense by nullifying the vote to. which they had come
on Monday.—(Hear, hear) Now it was the duty of the
Government, before taking such an extraordinary step,
at the earliest possible Moment to lay before
them the grounds upon which they called . upon
them to adopt such a sproceeding.—(Hear, hear.)
He had'expected that if the Government had intended
to make the House rescind the vote of Monday night,
that they would have brought forward some new argu-
ments, but theyhad brought forward none. They had
left everithing in doubt except' their determination, if
possible, to rescind the-vote of Monday night. He had to
state the grounds upon which he intended to repeat the
vote which he had- given on Monday night, and he had
to grapple with the arguments of one Member only who
had risen on the opposite side, and, in doing so, he was
undertaking no easy task, for seldom on a
.question so
exhausted had. he heard a speech containing- artsuinents
of Such novelty and such force7-(Cheers)---and he could
assure the Hon. Member that,M making that statement,
he was paying no unmeaning compliment ; for he, could
assure the Hon: Gentleman- that hep had' put his argu-
ments so ably as to elicit more than'. one cheer from hims
self (Mr: C. Buller). He' had also to grapple with the
speech of, his Hon Friend the Member for. Sheffield.
That speech was remarkable hot so much for the strength
of the arguments as for the strength Of the languages=
(Cheers and laughter.) His Hon. Friend seemed most
sensitive to the charges made against those who took the
course which he had taken. He complained of the Jan-
guage which had been used regarding those who enter-
tained Similar opinions to himself. He complained that
all who voted with him had been described as destitute
of the common feelings of humanity. NoW he entirely
acquitted his' Hon. Friend Of any such charge. He gave
him ,creditior as much humanity as any Hon. Member
who voted on .the other side ; but, in return, be asked
his lion.' Friend to' give those who voted against him
credit for something like a little ' common sense.
Those who were going to Tote' ought' to show they did
-vote upon principle. 'lf' the Noble Lord's' proposition
was wrong, and was carried into 'operation, 'it would
very seriously interfere 'with the staple interests of the
country, with the employment of' a large portion of the
people, and with' the absolute security and maintenance
of Millions.—(Hear, . hear.) The Legislature must in-
tere notwitstanding. The 'evil was great,''and must be
grappled With—the mischief was frightful in its maitre
and extent, and was so acknowledged even by those who,
opposed it. The peace. and prosperity of the country—
its many institutions, were perilled—and; if the Legis.
lature did- not interfere, it must be subdued.—(Hear,
hear.) The • old principles of legislation must 'in
this instance be departed ' from. He avowed his
.willingness to depart from those principles. New
circumstances had- arisen, and they required new re-
medies. , The social state had undergone a revolution,
and must, he repeated, be legislated for upon new prin-
ciples. He was prepared to enter into these new prin-
ciples, and, to defend them against those who advocated
the old principles of legislation, which left the people to-
shift fur themselves, and did not apply to that new state
of things, which existed-since the revolution, 'which the
course of time had effected. (Hear, hear.) He would
briefly state the grounds upon which he formed this opi-
nion. The important social change which had taken place
could be hardly-exaggerated, and he would venture to say
that 'no 'man, whatever his opinions on this subject might
be, 'could contemplate the present condition of the people
without amazement and dread. A hundred- years ago,
the great mass of the labouring popnlation ' were agri-
cultural labourers, 'scattered over the country without
any means of communicating with each. other, without
intelligence or the means of acting in 'concert, without
Combination or centralisation ; but they'were restrained
by adherence to old institutions, and 'acted under, the
guidance of those whose • authority was 'sanctioned by
hereditary -power, and- '(he 'felt' happy to say) by,
hereditary attachment. . The towns were thinly popu-
lated-; but the citizens, for the most part, possessed a
comparative degree of intelligence,, and were able to
.protect themselves. But a new race had arisen within
the last fifty years. Millions of men were collected
together within a small space, for the first tiine—an
immense -competition grew up between unskilled la-
bourers, Who worked from the first moment they could
work until they could -work no longer:—(Hear, hear.)
The greater part of this population consisted, as he had
already said, of unskilled: labourers; which was the cause
Of the- extraordinary pressure. Wages were beaten
doWn, -not •by masters, but 'by, competition ; their
numbers prevented them from combining, and, with
all these phenomena together, and without those,
influences. which formerly bound _ the :population.
together, let ' him ask the House could they
look on* this state a- things - without deep con-
tern?—(Hear, hear.) He would not represent the fac-
tory labourer as crippled-or disabled (nor would he say
anything offensive to the master manufactnrers, for he
believed there were a great, many 'among them who :dia.:.
charged the relations between man and master in a very,
becoming manner, and who, exhibibited the greatest
benevelence and forethought. 'No man could look itt.the
physical condition of the people, end say it was as it
ought to be.—(llear, hear.) He, would confine himself
to one or two great statistical facts. Let them look to
the labourers in .Dorsetshire and Wiltshire,' who ave-
raged 33 years, and contrast it with the average of life
in the manufacturing districtss-in Manchester,: for in.'
stance, where the average of human life did not 'exceed
17 years.—(Hear, hear.) He did not say this by way
of attributing blame' to the Uaillowners, but he Men-
tioned the appalling fact, as imperatively demanding the
interference of the Legislature.---(Hear: hear.) The
brevity of human life in the manufacturing districts did
not arise from casualties, or from epidemics, but from
the physical condition of the people, from over-exer-
tion, and from causes connected-with labours=-.(Hear,
hear.) further than this; the present condition- of the.
people .in those districts must lead to a de-
terioration of the physical strength and moral habits
of their children.—(Hear.) The mere temperattire
in these. factories was most injurious to the. human con-
stitution. He had been visiting some of the factories
in 'the north of England a few months ago, and he found
the temperature there • most inconvenient and un-
pleasant. tolimself. - It was an Indian, a tropical climate,
:in those, factories, and could not but-be injurious. to the
human frame. .On -passing through one of these-facto-
-ries, be was greatly surprised at not seeing any 'males—
they were all females ; and Lord Ashley had justly
observed upon the order of things being reversed in these
districts ; that the women and children did the work of
the men, who subsisted inidleness On their labours. .The
relations which bound the higher and lower orders toge-
ther in other parts of the country, did not exist there.
They were without religious or literary instruction, and
their condition especially called for the. interference. of
the landed proprietors of ,England, whose especial duty
it was to interfere.. Mr. M'Culloch was no sentiment-.
tahst,. and
yet he shook 'his head gravely at the present'
state o€-things; and-:said :they required- -a-change::: an:'
such a state, of 'circumstances, it was the

p9sitive duty of the Legislature to- interfere, and
they would be neglecting their duty if they did not.
Now, what was the state of things in Lancashire?
What did Mr. Horner say? Why he said that bet Ween
twenty and thirty young men were employed as pieeers,
at wages from Bs. to 9s. a week, while in the same mill
there were girls of eighteen years of age employed at
lls. and .12s; a week.—(Hear, hear.) :The Noble Lord
had -shown that more girls were , employed than male,
adults, and it was therefore clear that they would- have
a large portion of the adult population to fall back upon.
He did not know what the Hon. Gentleman opposite-
meant when he asked whether this was to be a Ten
Hours' Bill, and then went on to -argue that they could
increase the labour of the children in the samepropor-
tion that they diminished that of the men. A (great
many charges had been brought against the supporters
of the Noble Lord's motion, but, for Heaven'asake, let
them only deal with those charges which could
be fairly brought against them. Ile perfectly admitted
that' the argument used on the other side was perfectly
sound that, humanity should give way to the commercial
and financial interest of the country. Of course it stood
to reason that it would be unwise to shorten the hours of
labour with the certainty' of depriving -the operative po-
pulation of employment altogether. Now, how did the
Hon. Gentlemen opposite show that this proposition
would hive that effect? In the first place they made it
out by a great many very vague appeals to theirlears.
They said they. were embarking_in a new course—it was
very dangerous; they said;hut they gave no other reason
for their opposition to the proposition. He (Mr. Buller)
had always found that suchalarma as these were started
when the interests of certain parties were affected. It
had alwayi been said when any particular change
was going to be made, that if another feather were• to
be placed on the particular brand' of trade which was
to be affected, it would be broken down. 'He recollected
that this was said at the time of the inquiries into the
condition-of the slaves.—(Cheers.) They were always
told that a perfect paradise existed in the West Indies.
He (Mr. Buller) was perfectly ready to yield in opinion
to practical men, and to her Majesty's Government, upon
whom great responsibility was thrown. It was; however,
upon one condition, which was, that they should give up
all shaking of the head, and come down with a plain ar-
gument upon the subject. What was the argument used
by the Right Hon. Baronet, in terrorem, as it were, for
the purpose of scaring the supporters of the Noble Lord?
The Right Hon. Baronet said" How far will you go,
if you interfere with the factories—what will you do
with the cotton manufactories and others?". Now, he
(Mr.-Buller) would answer the' Right' Hon. Baronet.
He would, first of all, tell him what he would do with.
the principle. He would try it in- every instance.-,-
(Cheers.) He would carry the principle of interference
just to that point where it was impossible to go further.
—(Cheers and laughter.) Some of.his friends laughed at
him. Should he state the proposition in converso. He
should not go further than the point to go beyond
which would not benefit the operatives. Why, after all,
the Government did -this themselves.—(Hear, hear.)
They limited their interference to twelve hours in the •
factories.— (Hear, hear.) Now, with regard.to, the in-
stance the Right Hon. Baronet had-mentioned of the
screw-makers. He (Mr. Baler) did not know the par-
ticUlar circumstances of that trade ; and he could not, of
course, pledge himself without inquiring into them; but
he would say that he saw no earthly-reason why, if they
legislated for the factories, they should not legislate for
them also. The Right Hon. Baronet mentioned the
case of domestic servants. Now, in the first place,. he
(Mr. Buller) did not believe that • that was' a
class that was very. much Over-worked.—(Hear.)
He did not know" how flOnourable Gentlemen opposite.
used their servants, but he did not think that generally
they were very much overworked,—(Laughter.) But,
even supposing that they were, no arrangement could
be made with respect to them,. for any interference in
such a case would do more harm than good. Then there
was another class—that of the agricultural labourers.
He did not think that, if they took the whole miss- of
the agricultural labourers of the country, they would
complain of being- Overworked. • Although they were
badly treated in other respects, yet they did not Com-
plain of overwork. The Right Hon. Baronet mentioned
the harvest, and: he said they worked a great many
hours during the harvest. Why, who would complain
of overwork in the factories if it were confined to three
Weeks, and if the custom of the -country required it?
He did not think that the arguments of the Right Hon.
Baronet ought to scare them from their purpose.—
(Cheers.) One of the wisest men in the world- once
remarked, " The slothful man said. there is a lion in the
street:" Now he (Mr: Buller) must say, that in 'that
question there had been most extraordinary lions.—
(Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet said,
for " God sake do not go that way, or the lion will be
sure' to be at you."—(Laughter.) He would now glance
at the • arguments of the two Right 'Hon. Gentlemen, the
Secretary for the Home Department and the First Lord
of the Treasury. Now he thought he could set the two
Right Hon. Gentlemen by the ears. It was impossible
that the arguthents used by each Could stand together.
One Right Hon. dentletnan said, " Don't- interfere in-
this matter-it is our export . trade, and the foreigner
is competing with you." -He (Mr. Buller) hoped this.
would be recollected in the debate on the corn-laws.
The Right Hon. Baronet dreaded the competition with
the foreigner. " The foreigner," he said, will compete
with you, for you 'will have to raise your prices." The
other Right Hon. Gentleman referred- to Mr. Horner,
and proved that nothing of the kind would happen, Ns
the price depended "on the foreign market, and therefore
the prices would be kept low, to preserve the foreign
market. Let him (Mr. Buller) take first the argumept
of the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Trea-
sury. His argument was the most formidable, after all.
They could not over-state the importance of the export
trade. The Right Hon. Baronet dreaded the increase
of prices. What was that increase to be ? Some
calculation might be made. Surely those who
apprehended all this danger, could shadow to
themselves the amount 'of • the increase. Mr.
Kenworthy, a gentleman' himself connected largely
with the manufacturing interests, had made a calculation
to show the 'sum which was expended in. the manufac-,
ture of a yard of cloth. It appeared that this sum was
threepence per yard at present Now, a common rule-of-
three sum would-prove that, by a limitation of labourto
nine hours, instead of its present duration, there would
be a loss of only seven-sixteenths of a penny; and if to a
Ten Hours' Bill, it would be five.isixteenths.—(Hear, hear,
and cheers.) Yet the Right'Hon. Bhronet came forward,
and said this 'Bill would be most ruinous to the" manu-
facturers, and that, in consequence of the cotton-yarn
trade of this Country, they would be unable to compete
with foreigners. He would now refer to a simple
financial fact in connection with taxation, and he re-
gretted to see that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had
not announced in his last budget that there was any in-
tention of altering this duty—he alluded to the duty on
raw cotton—(Loud cheers)—that raw material, of which
those manufactures 'were composed. This duty 'was
5-16ths of a penny; so that they' who railed against this
measure, and said it would ruin the manufacturers of
this country, had the remedy in their own hands without
injury to any particular :interest, by reducing it 2-16ths
of a penny—(Cheers)—or to reduce, it altogether.—
(Renewed cheering.) If they thought that this tended
to injure the manufacturers, her Majesty's Government
had the power of 'applying the acquired 'remedy. The
Right Hon. Baronet, he thought, was much mistaken in
saying that all the injury would fall upon the operatives,.
and he made this assertion from premises drawn from'
statements in Mr. Horner's work. He (Mr. C. Buller)
could not at all understand the arguments of the Right
Hon. Baronet. The Hon. Gentleman then read the ex-

tract alluded to, and proceeded to say that the change
made in the amount of wages would. be only a diminution
of one-tenth • but the same' amount of cotton would 'be
manufactured as before, for it would not be that the
quantity of work to be performed would be reduced, but
that a greater number of hands would be employed ;
and the only inference which he could draw from that
passage from the work of Mr. Horner was, that there
would- be a reductioq in the amount of labourers'•wages
of about 301. in evert' 4004 now. expended. Honourable
Members on the. Opposition side of the House -had been
taunted with endeavouring to prove that a low rate of
wages would increase domestic comforts and happiness ;
nowrin reply to this taunt, he would ask, did the com-
forts of the people bow a proportion to the amount of
the weekly income? He had seen • much of the country,
and he would beg to call the attention of the House to
the state of the population in the collieries. Misr, in
these localities, although the 'An receive, very. high
wages, yet, surely, no person could say that domestic
comfort was the result of this ? He saw numbers of the

labourers, who had not half the 'wages of the colliers,
who were much more comfortable ;- and he thought, even
were it to lessen-7-which he denied—the wages or the ope-.
'retires, yet the increase of domeStic comfort consequent
upon she women having more time. to devote to their
household duties would_ be more than an equivalent for
any loss of . wages which might possibly accrue from
this 'measure. The argninent he •_must. grapple with
Was one that had frequently been thrown out, had been
frequently used, had been circulated among the gentle-
men opposite with some assiduity, and ,probably. with
some sticcess. It was said that the corn-laws were
Mixed iip-With.this question.--(Loud cheers.) It was
said, if we venture to 'do this—if we thus interfere with
manufacteres—if we lay these_ fresh restraints on them;
how will a paternal Government be able to resist the
demand of the people . for food?,--(Cheers.) How. shall
we next year stand by the sliding setae ?—(Cheers.)
The members of the League, it is said,- are cunning
men ; - the 'Bill is- doing the work Of the League.—
'(Cheers. and laughter.) He ' could net '• say there
was not something in thet.--(Cheers.) It was not
his business to defend the corn4aws7--(Cheers)—,
nor should he do so ; but he told theni, after all' that he
had mentioned. a much simpler remedy. -There was no
prOtectire duty on raw cotton.—(Cheers.) There were
no Anti-League leagued with respect to that article.—
(Cheers and laughter.) But, . suppose.' the House
rescinded its vote, the public would know -who
voted—(Loud -Cheersy-:the public would know who
Changed their votes—(Cheers)L--the public would know
who stayed away(Lood cheers and lazighter)—the.
publie 'weed know where " the 'whip" had been ap-
plied--(Cheers)—ag well as they would knoW those who.
had changed, these who were absent, And those whowere
suddenly present.—(Cheers and laughter.) Look how
the decision of. Monday • night had .been received. ;
then . let the friends of the corn-laws tell 'him,.
those who sacrificed every* consideration of policy to the
maintaining- olthose laws—let them tell 'him, whit the
masses of operatiVes from whose lips they would dash'
the cup of hope--what the intelligent and thinking
"classes, the mass of Whom believed that humanity. and'
.policy Went' together—how could theSe people reconcile
their conduct with their opinion ? Would it not be
much more fatal to the corn-laws, if intelligent -men
should see that it was for the maintenance of these laris
the country gentlemen were ready to sacrifice the edit-
cation, the morality, the social relations, and the phy-
sical -well-being 'of'• the people of England ? Let
-them tell him what could be, . *the feelings
-of-- the operatives-- when— Carrying—oil- —their:- -
bour for those two other holm or the day,