The Sun.
London, England, 1828-05-09 00:00:00

paring actively against it, and not coming forward to
distress him with their claims, wished they would place
confidence in him. We had some conversation about an

establishment for the clergy, which he said be bad talked
over with Lerd Fingal, whom he highly esteemed—that,
depend upon it, the Catholics will be the first objects of
consideration when they were able to act free from shackles.
He said that he was most fully convinced that an establish-
ment for the Clergy would be most amply compensated by
• . .

loyalty ; that he knew priests were not-their own masters.
I repeated that a loyal priest with a disloyal flock must
starve. He said, he knew mare were driven to silence
and inaction, or take part with their flock.
Such was the opinion of the great Lord Cornwallis, one
of tke clearest headed, most upright, candid, and intelligent
men who had ever possessed the Chief Authority in Ire-
land. From one of these minutes, dated the 13th of

December, immediately after the Union had taken place, it
seemed that Lord Cornwallis actually authorised Lord
Fingall to call upon him, from his place in the House of
Lords, immediately the Act of Union had been so com-
pleted, to give Emancipation to the Roman Catholics of
Ireland. —(Cheers.)—Could any thing more strongly de-
monstrate his Lordship's own prepossession and under-
standing, as to the faith upon which that Union had been
effected ?—(Hear.)--- He himself (Mr. M. Fitzgerald)
asked him about that period, why the measure of emanci-
pation had not been stipulated for, as an integral condition
of the Union? Lord Cornwallis replied—,, you know
what difficulty we had to carry the Union at all. Had we
brought forward the question of emancipation at the same
time, all the Protestant supporters of the other measure,
the vital necessity of which to the welfare, the existence of
Ireland we are so agreed upon, would have flown a from
and deserted us in alarm. But what doubt can you
feel upon the subject? You know well enough, what
our English Parliament is. Of whom does it consist?
Of Mr. Pitt and his Cabinet. Of Mr. Fox and his
party. Mr. Pitt's opinions and wishes you know to be
most decided, and most favourable to Roman Catholic
Emancipation. Mr. Fox, if he were in power, is equally
pledged upon principle to grant it. What else then re-
mairel ?—(Loud cheers.)-,-He (Mr. F.) begged pardon.
He did at this moment see an Hon. Gent. behind him who
certainly would have remained, he meant the Honourable
Member for Dorsetshire.—(A laugh.)—He said this of
that gentleman (Mr. Bankes) with•perfect respect, because
the Hon. Member did at that time, as he had since done,
manfully and fairly avow his decided opposition to the
proposal of so emancipating the Catholics. That Hon.
Gentleman would have been averse to any measure which
had for its object to benefit, to relieve the Catholic com-
munity. Now he had only mentioned the solitary excep-
tion of the Hon. Member for Dorsetshire, because the ex-
ception rather proved the general rule; and upon the
single as well as singular condition in which the Hon.
Gentleman must have stood, the House might infer how
absolutely the general feeling of Parliament must at that
day have been in favour of this question.—(Hear, hear.)—
But almost every body in these days knew, that had it not
been for the unfortunate fatality of Mr. Pitt in coming
down, so immediately after the Union, to recommend
emancipation, the latter question must have been carried
in the English Parliament without a dispute, without even
a murmur. If the Aristocracy of Ireland, between whom
and other parties in the State, he (Mr. F.) had been the
organ of frequent communication, had been displaced from
their stations, and had lost the influence and controul which
they formerly exercised over all the rest of their commu-
nity, let not this be imputed to them, as his Hon. and
Learned Friend would impute it, as matter of blame, but
rather as the consequence of their long-continued and
most unjust exclusion from political office. The Right
Hon. Gentleman here read the paper signed by Mr. Pitt
and others on going out of office, upon the Catholic
Question, which Mr. Pitt and his friends, addressing the
Catholic body, stated that
" The leading part of his Majesty's Ministers, finding
insurmountable obstacles to the bringing forward measures
of concession to the Catholic body, whilst in office, have
felt it impossible to continue in administration, under their
inability. to propose it, with the circumstances necessary to
carrying the measure with all its advantages ; and they
have retired from his Majesty's service, considering this
line of conduct is most likely to contribute to its ultimate
success. The Catholic body will, therefore, see how•much
their future hopes must depend upon strengthening their.
cause by good conduct in the meantime. They will pru-
dently consider their prospect as arising from the persons
who now espouse their interests, and compare them with
those which they 'could look to from any other quarter:
they may rely on the zealous support of all those who
retire, and of many who remain i❑ office, when

•
it can be given with a prospect of success. They may be
assured that Mr. Pitt will do his utmost to establish their
cause in the public favour, and prepare the way to their
finally attaining their objects; and the Catholics will feel,
that as Mr. Pitt could not concur in a hopeless attempt to
force it now, that he must at all times repress with the
same decision as if he held an adverse opinion, any uncon-
stitutional conduct in the Catholic body. Under these cir-
cumstances, it was not to be doubted that the Catholics
will take the most loyal, dutiful, and patient line of con-
duct—that they will not suffer themselves to be led into
measures which can, by any construction, give a handle to
the opposers of their wishes, either to interpret their prin-
ciples or to raise an argument for resisting their claims;—
but that, by their prudent and exemplary demeanour, they
will afford additional grounds to the growing number of
their advocates, to enforce their claims on proper occa-
sions, until their objects can be finally and advantageously
attained."
It had been said of Mr. Pitt, that if he had lived to the
present time he would have seen reason to change his sen-
timents upon the subject of the Catholic Claims. He
(Mr. Fitzgerald) did not believe there was any foundation
for such an opinion, and he referred to the historical fact
of the discussions in the Cabinet, shortly after the Union, '
Ito prove that Mr. Pitt would never, upon frivolous
grounds, have deprived the Catholic Body of those advan-
tages which were held out to them as an inducement to as- '
sent to that measure. He knew, personally, that Mr.
Pitt was most anxious to realise the expectations of the
Catholics. Lord Castlereagh was the staunch advocate of
the Catholics in the debate in the Cabinet, and the argu-
ments of his opponent, who was the leading opponent of
the Catholic claims of that day, Mr. Pitt had pronounced
insufficient and unsatisfactory. Lord Castlereagh had
favoured him with a copy of the arguments put upon paper
by him upon that occasion, and, with the permission of
the House, he would read an extract from the conclusion,
as well for the sake of the argument itself, as to prove the
consistency of that great Statesman in respect of his opi-
nions on this subject. The Honourable Member then read
as follows :
" Should the necessary concessions be decided on, the
advantages of its proceeding from Government will natu •
rally suggest themselves. Much benefit alight arise from
the boon being attributable to that settlement under which
we are hereafter to live. It would make the Catholics in
Ireland feel, that their exclusion has been the necessary
consequence of a separate Constitution, and that their ad-
vantages have arisen out of an incorporation with Great
Britain. It is idle to hope that Dissenters of any deno-
mination or description can ever be so zealously attached
subjects as those who are of the Established Religion ; but
the question is, what system, without hazarding the power
of the State itself, is best calculated, if not warmly to at-
tach, at least to disarm the hostility, of those classes in the
community who cannot be got rid of, and must be go-
verned.

" This latter consideration is of most, pressing import-
ance with respect to Ireland. That kingdom must in fact
be considered as a country of security, and if we are to in-
dulge an expetation that it may be redeemed from its pre-
sent miseries, it must be by the adoption of some system,
which, without relaxing the energy of Government, shall
relieve the public mind from its fundamental principles of
perpetual struggle. Unless the power and stability of the
United Government shall afford the means in safety of
adopting some principles of compromise, amongst the con-
tending factious, the difficulty of governing the country will
rapidly increase, as every war adds materially to the relative
importance of the dissenting interests. If the same internal
struggle continues, Great Britain will derive little beyond
an increasing expence from the Union. If she is to govern
Ireland upon a garrison principle, perhaps, in abolishing the
separate Parliament, she has parted as well with her most
effectual means, as with her most perfect justification. In
uniting with Ireland, she has abdicated the Colonial rela-
tion ; and if that country is hereafter to prove a resource
rather than a burthen to Great Britain, an effort must be
made to govern it through the public mind.
" It is obvious that the Government of Ireland has diffi-
culties incidental to it, which will require a much greater
proportion of
iv Ministerialattenptoioonr thana inSdeoostltarriiodusd,idanatulbo-f
sient to the Union. Scotland, at that (lay, was but
thinly inhabited—the people
habits so peculiarly regular, that, with the exception of
the Rebellion, which sprung from a feeling of attachment
to the exiled Family, it may be said to have almost go.
verned itself. Ireland, on the contrary, is highly popu-
lous, acquires wealth more rapidly than civilization. It is
inhabited by Dissenters from the Establishment, split into
factions, and these factions committed against each other,
with all the rancour of past injuries as well as present
distinctions. The law is imperfectly obeyed, and very ill
administered by the .Magistrates, who are too frequently
partizans rather than judges. In short, the tranquillity of
the country is alone preserved, even in the degree in which