The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-03 00:00:00

BILL.

On the motion of Lord ASHLEY, the House wen
into Committee on this Bill, when _ _

Mr. C. BERKELEY expressed a hope that the Noble
Lord would make some statement as to the objects of
the Bill, before they went into Committee.
Lord ASHLEY observed, that OA a former occasion
he had occupied the House for upwards of an hour and
a quarter in explaining its objects ; at that time he went
fully into the details of the Bill, and he did not think it
necessary to say more at present.—(Hear, hear.)
Clauses 1,2, and 3, were then agreed to.
Clauses 5,6, and 7, were then agreed to.
On (dame 8 being proposed,
A short conversation took place, in which Mr.
Henley, Lord Ashley, Sir Jamed Graham, and Mr. S.
Wortley took part, respecting union workhouses being
used as lunatic asylums, Mr. Henley complaining that
the clause did not provide a sufficient authority for the
regulation of such establishments.
After an explanation from Lord ASHLEY on this

point,
Mr. WAKLEY objected to the using of workhouses
for lunatic asylums. lie did not believe it was possible
to treat chronic cases of lunacy in such places, the
arrangements being altogether so imperfect. It was con-
tempttble to speak of the expense of providing proper
accommodation for chronic patients in workhouses and
other places, when it was considered that the cost on the
poor-rate would not be more than a farthing in the
pound, and when it was considered that the unfortunate
patients were labouring under the the most painful of
all maladies.

Sir J. GRAHAM considered that the curable should
be separated from the incurable patients, as soon as pos-
sible after their admission. The clause gave the autho-
rities full power to effect those alterations which might
be rendered necessary for the accommodation of the pa-
tients, but expense ought not to be entirely disregarded.
Mr. WAKLEY would ask the Noble Lord if the con-
verting any part of the workhouses into lunatic asylums
would not be regarded as very hostile to the poorer
classes, and would it not be apt to bring the Legislature
of the country into very bad odour ? He was sure it
would, and the provision which enacted this, therefore,
was, in his opinion, very defective, and ought to be ex-
punged.
Lord ASHLEY said it would be the duty of the Com-
missioners to see that the internal regulations of these
asylums would not, in the slightest degree, interft•re
with the other parts of the workhouses. It was calcu-
lated, too, that the appropriation of a portion of these
public buildings would save a considerable expenses
to the country ; and he trusted that they would
in ten years prove that they had not, as now, 17,500 his
notics, but something less than 10,000—perhaps less
than 8,000.
Mr. HENLEY did not object to Parliament adopting
means for securing the speedy cure of pauper lunatics,
but he was decidedly opposed to their doing it at the
expense (.f ether classes than those who were to be
benefited by their legislation.
Mr. Hawes and Mr. V. SMITH advocated a separa-
tion of the curable and incurable pauper lunatics con-
fined in the various asylums of the country, and
urged the Committee to adopt the views of the Hon.
Member for Finsbury.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM recommended the Noble
Lord who had charge of the Bill, so to modify the clause
as to require a separation of that part of the building, to
be coverted into a lunatic asylum, from that part to be
used and occupied as a workhouse.
Lord ASHLEY had no objection to adopt the recom-
mendation of his Right Hon. Friend, and the clause was
amended accordingly, and afterwards agreed to.
On the next clause being read,
Mr. M. GIBSON conceived that the town council
should have some controul over the money proposed to
be raised, and not to leave the entire controul of it to
the parties to whom the Bill now gave an irrespon-
sible power of making orders on the treasurer, which
the council would be compelled to find the funds to
meet.
Lord ASHLEY would have no objection, if the Hon.
Member would say what remedy he would propose.
Clause 26 was agreed to.
Clauses up to 40 inclusive were then passed without
opposition or discussion.
On clause 41 being put,
Mr. WAWN protested against the House proceeding
further at that late hour (one o'clock), especially as he
had great objections to that clause. He therefore moved
that the Speaker report progress.
The House resumed.
After a short discussion, in which Lord Ashley, Lord
Barrington, and Mr. Darby took part, each urging the
propriety of continuing,
Mr. WAWN consented to withdraw his motion on
condition that the consideration of that particular clause
be postponed.
The 41st clause was postponed accordingly.
Clauses up to 45 were then agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. WAKLEY,
The CHAIRMAN reported progress and obtained leave
to sit again on next Wednesday, at twelve o'clock.
The House then resumed.
SCIENTIFIC AND LITERARY SOCIETIES
BILL.
Mr. WYSE moved that the Bill be committed.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM was opposed to any exten-
sion of the measure.
Mr. WARBURTON hoped that the Bill might be
abandoned.
After some desultory conversation clauses 1 and 2
were made part of the Bill, as were also clauses 3,4, 5,
and 6, and the Bill was ordered to be reported on Friday
next.