The Sun.
London, England, 1821-03-30 00:00:00

TIMBER DUTIES.

Mr. WALLACE moved that the House should
go into a Committee on the Acts relative to the
Duties on Timber:

*The 1ff:1'1:Ise having resolved itself initi a Com..
mittee,
- Mr. WAst.i.Act Called the attention of the House
to the Report of the Committee on the Tinibei
Ditties, and said he had now to propose such re:
soltutions as from that Report .the •conithercial
interests Flf ~the
.conntry
.appvii7o tO' require:
lie feJt the subject to those who had not given jt
much of .their at;.ention,,•,zr who Wete not in-
terested is it, was a dry one'; and was a Ware
that he was incapable of making it attrattiVe,
and shoiild therefore endeavour to aVoid trespas-
sing on the attention of the Hotise longer than
was absoldtely necessary. It was known in
the House, that previous 'to the year 1809, a sup-
ply of limber for all purposes was obtained al-
most exclusively from the North of Europe. Sub-
sequently the supply was divided into two parts—
part being obtained from the North of Europe,
and part from our own North American,Colonies.
It was impossible to look at these trades without
perceiving that in the course of no very long time,
if the present system was continued, one of the
two must become completely predominant, and,
therefore; the other must be completely anuilti
lated. The annual importation of timber from
1803 to 1806 from the North of Europe, was as
follows :
Fir Timber -
Deals
From 1816 to 1819 there had been a great diminution in the an-
nual imports from the North. Their amount was—

218,857 loads.
43,938

it Timber - - 93,659 loads.
Deals - - - - 21,821
On both it would be seen the reduction consideraLly exceeded
one-half. The Timber imported from our North American
Colo:lies averaged, in the years from 1803 to 1806, 10,519 loads.
The average from 1810 to 1819 was -183,322. The imports from
the North of Europe in the years 181(1, 1819, and 11120, exhi-
bited a greater decline, and were as follow :-
1818 - - - 130,000 loads.
• 1819 - - - - 102,000
1320 59,000
In the mean tune, the Imports from our American Colonies
Were--

In 1818 - - - _ _ - 211,000 loads.
1819 - - - - - 21;7,000
1820 - . - - - 2L3,000
It would be found that the reduction in Colonial
Timber was as nothing compared with that of
Norway. Taking the average of two years, 1819
and 1810, it appeared that there was an amount
of upwards of 75,000 load of timber in favour of
the supply from America. He could not hut re-
gard this sacrifice of a great branch of trade,
possessing great interest in the eyes of the
.coun-
try, and• giving in great influence in our commer-;
vial relations with those countries in the North,
affected by this declaration, as a line of conduct
which was not consistent with justice,. nor even
souird,policy in itself. If the cause of this de-
-pression in the timber trade of. the North, yiz•
the high duties-had arisen from any view of
national adVantage to ate Colonies, or of its being
dne to the Colonies, in order to place them in a
state of fair competition with other countries, he
should not have thought of any interference or
alteration : but the case was quite the reverse;
and so far from this being the case, the present
state of things 'was produced by a systeM ordir-
ties that was altogether monstroug—and the in-
justice-of the continuance of these duties was
heightened from the circumstance of their bOng
imposed during the war, and as war duties.
It might not be important to Russia or Prussia
to loSe the invoice amount of the woods im-
ported: from those States into
.this country',
not amounting to more than 100,000/.; nor could
it he of Much consequence to this country
to lose such an amount of manufactures : ltat
still the Matter was" of importance, as being the
first step taken in receding from that system On
which they had so long been going on in our coril-
mercial relations with foreign countries. What
he complained of was, that colonial timber paid
.almost nothing, while that imported from the,
North was .borne down with a !way-v. weight-01
duty, double' the amount of its prime cost!
Even under this enormous duty the Northern
timber had been used, awl the question now Was'
Whether they could consent to continue this en;
ormous duty, for the sole and exclusive benefit 01
those whO were connected with tile shipping env'
ployed in the .conveyance of the wood_,
America ? Gentlemen were perhaps aware, that
the origin of these duties was in time of war, arid
.
was at first avowedly put on as protecting tlO
ties. He knew it was urged by some in ft':
your of the continuance of these duties that
they were in their nature perpetual duties, an"
could not therefore be taken off without a
breach of good faith, highly detrimental to all
who had trusted in' it. Now Honourable Pen;
tlemen would know very well that the yo)fti
et,
cc perpetual" was only in contradistinction I_,
temporary, or being limited in duration to an;'
precise Period ; but did not at all mean that Par'
liament was to give up the exercise of all
ov discrei:
tion or contras er them. The effect of the hig::l
duties had been to introduce into the country art
immense overplus of timber, to the exteot.di
100,000 loads beyond the ordinary supply, whe
l-
had been substituted for different kinds of tin'o ,
in various departments of the trade. In collshee
-quence of this, merchants who speculated on,oilt
fair consumption of the country, were thron
of the markets. The Hon. Gentleman,
tiot
'verting to-the excess of shipping, observed/ sto
that excess was attributed by different perso° ve
different causes. By some it was supposed Toe
the natural consequence of the termination °itiog
war. By others it was said to be owing to the lit ot
up many vessels for the Indian trade,whiehini(lilDe
succeeded. By others again it was declared "11)0
the effect of the seas being open, by w
other countries would now enter into con:P:so
tion. Supposing them to have operated cit:_t),
of the present excess of shipping, he bad vu,ar,
serve that they were foreseen during lireact was
and the ships built accordingly. The f
stion
that this had been made entirely It que
shipping, and it was their interestl .
most clamorous on all "occasions v;liteir.ehi`:atilt
even remotely approached.
lie was aware
prejudice. that existed in the country against
thing that tended to touch the question oifwa',J
shipping. The moment some persons
that any question which happened to be broil '
the shi;
P
forward touched in any way upon 4
. of
he might 0
well be hanged at once, for
like giving a dog a ~
vould t
no One 14„o
would
ping,there was an end of it with -them. It 00
had name
near him. He hoped this prejudice

be 'allowed in ehter into the tonsideratinn of
this subject on the present occasion. ;NO one had
a greater regard and respect for the shipping
interest than he had '; but he thought the protec-
tion of it might be pressed too i'ar so as to be
ilijuriol4B to the other interests of the country.
Ile
ktlnye* also that the Strength of the Empire
lier';ended 'upon a great and extensive
greatly
„ercantile marine; but then to maintain that,
If such
must have a great and extensive commerce.
such an extent of Shipping were necessary, to
the defence of the country, he would admit there
was a Plausible reason for keeping it Up ; but he
could see nothing in the present state of Europe
likely to call upon this country for any greater
naval exertions than she had put forth be-
fore. The shipping was considerably greater
a.," the number of sailors fifty thou Sand more
than in 1793 and 1794, immediately preceding
the, War. It was to be particularly remarked,
tnat the ships upon which this excess had
taken place were of the worst description. They
were, old, and worn out in, the service, and built
originally of the least durable materials. It
I" said in the timber trade, that any thing unfit for
any Other service would do for that trade, and
it'vias argued in the Committee as an argument
against the measure he Should propose, that it
have the effect of throwing ships out of
works which could find no other employment;
and) indeed, when they came to look into the
matter, it was evident that none but a madman
Ictrust any other kind of property in them.
of *4,7,113 for such as them that the best interests
country 'were to suffer. If any new
thaanels of trade Could be discovered, the
.i
I:PPing interest might be able to support it-
-e'fs but without that, nothing but reduction
r7onid avail. At the present moment, there was
one interest in particUlar to attend to. All
demanded alike their attention, and relief, if
Possible ; but they could not be expected to
Pursue a plan of relief towards any one set of in-
luviduals at the expence of another. It was not
force, but by fair and natural means that they
:ad the power of extending and promoting the
lititerests of the general commerce of the country.
44 doing that the best way would be to remove
every restriction upon our commercial relations
-with foreign countries, by which they would be
made to feel that their interests depended upon.
our Prosperity. By following this course all
the interests of 'this country, particularly the
agricultural would be substantially promoted.
Ile had already shewn that a reduction in
the duties upon Northern Timber must take
Voce. The difficulty was in fixing the price. The
-douse would see by the witnesses examined on
that point in the Committee, that some recom-
mended a reduction of ss. others again of 10s.
15s. 20s. and 255. Amidst this variety, it was no
easy matter to fix ; but it had appeared to him
More prudent to stop at 20s. The system of
over-trading* which had been so long carried on
bad been injurious to many individuals, but be-
neficial for the Colonies. The measure he was
gall% to propose he wished to be understood
°llly as a step, a very small one, towards a better
system. There were many reasons for not making
114 altogether unrestrained course of remedy upon
That occasion. Amongst them was the fact of
IntanY large establishments having grown up in
`lle Colonies upon the faith of a continuance of
the present system. He wished to say one
word on the assertion that the exports of this
country to the ColonieS depended on the Timber,l
rade, and the .argument that it would be in-
furious to the manufacturer to lose one million
which he derived from this Timber Trade. lie
wished the House to know the facts. The ut-
tno.st that was done in .the Timber Trade, was
°f course the invoice price, which was less than
400)000/. annually. The exports of the last
ear to the Colonies amounted to 1,600,0001.
-41iich left 1,200,0001: clear of the Timber Trade,
instead of the million which was talked of. The
Ilature of his Resolutions, he would inform the
Committee, was to alter all the duties, and to re-
Place them by others: That would be the whole
°f their contents ; and he hoped that whatever
Points of conversation there might appear in
41!'erti, they would he transferred for discussion
after the printing of the Resolutions. The
'rst question that suggested itself was, how to
dispose of the reduction he proposed of twenty
shillings. After mature consideration on that
B,lthject, he had come to the opinion that it would
tie best to take off one half of that sum from the
Iduties on Baltic timber, and put on the other
.lalt on American timber. lie also recommended,
levying. the duty, that the cubical rinciple
Should be. followed. The Right Hopnourable
t`li-,eutlemait concluded by moving-46 That it is
e opinion-of this Committee that certain duties
';',Yable on the Baltic timber cease and termi,
ti4tes and that several drawbdcks be paid in lieu
Lord Avrnorti then rose to offer some obser-
Z'tions upon the statements and arguments of tithe'd
ght Honourable Gentleman who had just sat
-°‘i'n• He contended that the Canada trade
ePerated as an immense tax upon this country :
and it seemed to be pr. t •cted and encouraged
for
no other purpose than that of working ships,.
Ivhich were worn out and rotten, and unfit for
any other service. With respect to the argument
'cif the Right lion. Gentleman, that encourage-
ment was due to the Canada trade, as a protection
to the interest of those whom the established sys-
tem had induced to invest their capital therein, he
begged to remind the Right Hon. Gent. that there
Were heavy balances due to British merchants
from the northet n traders, tire :only hope of a
recovery of which rested in the encouragement
given to the Baltic trade, and - that to the in-
terests of these parties an equal degree of pro-
tection was due. He recommended that the
duty on Baltic timber should be 50.;. per load,
and 10s. on that Of Canada. He also recom-
tn_ ended that the duty on deals sholild he
levied according to their cubic contents in the
raw state, as it could be no profit to the country
to tax deals for the sake of encouraging the home
sawyer, when they could import ready cut deals
at a cheaper rate than, they could saw them here.
Mr. MAattyaTT--.1 cannot agree to the Reso-
lutions proposed, and still less ,to the improve-
news upon them suggested by the Noble Lord ;

because one of them, so far from being founded
on the evidence given before the Committee on
Foreign Trade, is in direct opposition to that
evidence, as I shall hereafter more particularly
explain. Another objection nhich weighs very
strongly on my mind, as well against the Reso-
lutions as some passages of the Report itself, is,
that both of them betray too great a leaning to
the principles laid down in the Petition of cer-'
tain Merchants of this Metropolis, presented last
Session of Parliament, which led to the appoint-
ment of the Committee on Foreign Trade, and
which called upon this House to take off " all
" duties merely protective against foreign coin-
" petition." In conformity to this doctrine, it is
now proposed to us to diminish the protection
hitherto given to our Colonies and our Ship
OwrierS, in a degree that I am satisfied will
prove highly, injurious to both, and give a mono-
poly of the Timber Trade to foreigners. If we
comply,. in this instance, with the request of the
disciples df the new school of political economy,
and establish what they term " a sound principle,
" a standard to be 'referred' to in all subsequent
" arrangements," we must follow it up in every
other case, and shall soon ruin every class of the
community, one after the other.—l admit that if
we had a new state of society to form, and a new
order of things to establish, a free and unrestrict-
ed intercourse between all nations would be the
wisest and most beneficial system that could be
adopted ; but we are in an artificial state df so-
ciety, and might just as well think of returning to
a state of nature as of returning to first princi-
ples and abstract doctrines. We have an im-
mense national debt, and the load of taxation we
necessarily bear to provide for the interest of it,
enters into the price of labour, and every thing
that is the produce of labour ; and makes it im-
possible for us to maintain an equal competition
with 'foreign nations, who are not subjected to
the same disadvantage. Let them take up our
national debt, and then we may venture to meet
them on equal terms ; but under present circum-
stances, they can and will undersell us, except
in particular branches of manufacture, where we
have advantages that counterbalance this weight
of taxation.—Great- surprise has frequently been
expressed of late, that a nation in possession of
such amass of industry, capital, and enterprise as
this, should be suffering to such a degree as all
classes in this community 'now are ; but the solu-
tion is easy : we have returned to a state of
peace, loaded with a debt. of 800 millions, ins
stead of 200, which was the amount before the
wat, and therefore are less capable than ever of
bearing that foreign competition with 'which we
are again brought into contact. We are pursuing
a wrong course, in attempting to increase the
sale of our manufactures among the European
Powers.. .Most of them manufacture for them-
.
selves ; and use every practical means to secure
their own consumption to the industry of their
own subjects. Those who do not, will only take
from us what we can supply them with cheaper
than their other neighbours. Our home con-
sumption, and our Colonies and Dependencies,
take off 6-7ths of all .our,manufactures ; and our
only reasonable expectation of extending their
consumption, is among, instant nations, who do
not manufacture for themselves, and who will
take our goods in exchange for their productions.
—The obvious tendency of a free trade is to make
rich countries poor, and, poor countries rich ; be-
cause poor countries, where articles are cheap,
will . undersell rich countries where they are
dear, 'till the inequality between them ceases,
and they are all brought to a level. This, there-
fore, is a very proper system for those who are
poor to recommend, but not for those who are
rich to adopt ; unless indeed they feel that they
enjoy too great a share of wealth. and property,
and wish to divide their superabundance with
their poorer neighbours, which I do not take
to be our case at the present moment.—My
objections to taking this fresh step in the
new career recommended to us, of abolishing all
restrictions on foreign competition, are not only
the injury that would be done to our Ship
Owners and Colonists, by what the Report of
the Committee on Foreign Trade terms " a re-
" currence to those sound principles by which all
" commerce ought to be regulated ;" but the
consequences that must ensue to all the other
great interests of the country. My impressions
on this point are confirmed by the testimony of a
most intelligent witness. examined before the
Committee, who declared, that our prohibitory
duties on foreign linens are considered in a more
invidious light than our high duties on their
timber; that our prohibition of their corn, un-
der the present Corn Laws, is very obnoxious to
Russia and Prussia ; and being asked whether
the reduction of our duty on their timber alone
would remove the unfavourable disposition they
entertain against us, unless followed by the re-
moval of the restrictions on the other articles, he
answered, 46 It would contribute to such an
64 effect, chiefly, as an earnest of a more liberal
" system." Justice and reciprocity, not libe-
rality, ought to be the basis of our intercourse
with Foreign Powers : but if we open to them
those great spurces of consumption which furnish
employment for our own domestic industry, in
the expectation of deriving correspondent advan-
tages from them in retura, I fear we shall
be grievously disappointed, and have am-
ple leisure to lament our own folly.—
While I contend that protection against foreign
competition is absolutely necessary, I beg leave
to distinguish between protection and monopoly ;
and to observe that it should be bounded by such
limits, as the interest of the community at large
require. If any class attempt to carry it farther,
the foreign competitor ought to he let in, and &e-
-vent an "undue advantage being taken of the
public. Under such limitations, protection is
necessary to almost every class of the community ;
and those who are loudest in support of the op-
posite doctrine, would be the first to cry out if
it were applied to themselves.—'When I have
brought up Petitions from the British Ship
Owners, and the British Colonists, praying
for protection against foreign competition, they
have sometimes ,been- treated with asperity,
and the petitioners represented as selfish and
unreasonable ; and this, too, by Landholders and
Gentlemen of the Sister Kingdem,,who might be

. . .
expected to consider with indulgence the. claims
of otherSto the same protection 'as they receive
themselves..—As to the Landholders; the protec-
tion againisrforeign competition given to them by
the Coin haws amounts to not,, less than thirty
millidns per annum, which the British consumers
pay them for the produce of their, land; more
than they would, pay for it, if it could be im-
ported vdthodt restrictions on foreign competi-
tion. Wheat would then be sold here at 40s.
per quarter ; land would not pay the ex-
pence of cultivatitiff; and be ,of as little value
as tine wilderneses in the British Provinces in
North America, where .the Timber: groWs; the
duties on which we are now regnlating. Ire-
land enjoys the same protection for her agricul-
ture as Great Britain ; and her staple manufac-
ture, linen, is protected from foreign com-
petition, by duties on foreign linens;
,amounting
to from 50 to 90 per cent. ; and still farther, by
a bounty on the exportation of Irish Linen, of
12d. per yard ; which, on the coarser qualities,
amounts to about 172 per cent. more. Nay, so
great is the horror of, foreign linens, entertained
by the Gentlemen of the Sister Kingdom, that
'they have extorted from his Majesty's Government
the continuance of a transit duty of 15s. per
cent. on its being warehoused here for expor-
tation ; under an erroneous prejudice, which
is injurious. even to themselves, and highly so
to the best interests of Great Britain. Let them
rend the memorial lately presented to the
Russian Government by the sugar, refiners at St".
l'etersburgh, and they will find that the transit
duty on foreign linens is made the ground of re-
taliatory measures of a most severe and important
nature. These classes, who receive such ample
protection themselves against foreign competition,
ought surely to give a liberal consideration to the
claims of their fellow-subjects, and I beg they
will dispassionately attend to those of the Ship-
owners, and the inhabitants of the British Colo-
nies in North America.—During the late war, the
numerous expeditions fitted out from this country
required a great number of transports. The Ship-
owners met the demand, built an additional num-
ber of vessels, and supplied the exigencies of the
public service. At the close of the war,Government
having.no longer, occasion for them, these trans-
ports were diScharged ; and, at the same time,
many of the Colonies captured from the enemy
having been-restored, the'ships engaged in bringing
their produce to Great Britain were also thrown
upon the hands of their owners ; the remaining
branches of our commerce being insufficient to
give them employment, the value of shipping
depreciated more than 50 per cent., and freights
were so reduced, that those ships which found
employment, instead of giving any profit, were
navigated at a loss to their owners. These facts
are incontestably proVed by the evidence given
before the Committee on Foreign Trade. The
same evidence proves that they cannot, as has
been erroneously supposed by the Committee of
the Lords on this subject, enter into suc-
cessful competition with the Shipping of every.
other - country in- the globe ; the expence
of building, fitting, and' navigating ships in this
country being infinitely greater than in . the
North- of Europe. Under these circumstances,
all the protection the Ship Owners ask is, that
you will net alter the existing duties on Tim-
ber, and transfer that -trade-- ~to foreigners,
which is at present carried on 'by them from
the British Colonies. If you do this, you de-
prive them of their only resource, and devote
them to inevitable ruin. The British Colonists
in support, of - their claim for protection against
foreign competition, state that they were encou-
raged to engage in this timber trade by a specific
pledge on the part of Government, " that a de,'
cided preference would be given to timber, the
growth of his Majesty's Colonies in North Ame-
rica," in consequence of, our being excluded
from any supply from the northern powers of
Europe. Under this assurance, and in this exi-
gency, they formed expensive establishments,
and supplied the wants of the Mother Couti-
try. The Report states, that,'" so far from
‘4 any expectation being held. out_ that the' en-
couragement so given had been considered
" by Government as permanent, or was in-
" tended to be indefinitely continued, means
cc seem to have been studiously taken to pro-
" duce by explanation a conviction of a contrary
tendency ;" but the only document I have seen
which in any degree justifies this assertion is Mr.
Lack's letter of the 25th Feb. 1817 ; and this
refers to the additional duty of 10s. 3d. imposed
on Baltic Timber in -1813, and expresses the
conviction of their Lordships," that a duty to
" the same amount might be laid on Timber
" from the British North American Colonies,
44 without being prejudicial. to the great interests
" concerned." The Ship Owners remonstrated
against this duty, and on the 20th February,
1818, Mr. Lack wrote again, " that upon a full
consideration of all the circumstances of the case,
it is not at present the intention of his Majesty's
Government to. submit to Parliament any altera-
tion of the law as it now stands, in respect to the
importation of Timber, whether from our own
Colonies or from Foreign States." The Chairman
of the Ship Owners has publicly denied having
received any commueication hich he did not
make public ; and every witness from the Bri-
tish Colonies, examined before the Committee,
declared that they considered the duties perMa-
nent, excepting that of 10s. 3d., and that they
acted in full confidence of the continued pro-
tection of Government. They farther. state,
that this trade is now grown up to a magni-
tude, that . renders it of the utmost import-
ante to the British ColonieS ; that persons en-
gaged- inn agriculture. find employment in cutting
timber and conveying it to the shipping placesdur-
ing the winter, when all other occupations are sus-
pended ; that the increased population thus em-
ployed, has given great encouragement to agri-
culture, by extending the demand for agricultu-
ral produce; that a great number of emigrant:;
have been enabled to settle, in that country,
by merchants advancing to them the supplies ne-
cessary for their snpport, until their lands
were brought into a .state of cultivation, and
taking their payment in timber ; that
.the ex-
port of their .timber note forms a large .propor-
tion of their means of importing the Manufac-

tures of the Mother Country, and that if this
trade is discouraged, their imports must be dis-
coutiaued, their Agriculture decline, and their
Population emigrate for want, of employment.
They urge, that if you interrupt the trade of
an independent Power; to wham the, com-
merce of all the world is open, it may
be directed into other channels -; but that
as you bind them to trade with the Mother
Country alone; if you refuse to protect
their produce; they are left without resource.
They contend that the restrictions you impose
upon them, of taking all their supplies from you,
and shipping all their produce to you, and that
in British ships, thus making their industry con-
tribute in every possible way to your great objects,
of finding marts for the consumption of your manu-
factures, and maintaining your naval power, gives
them an unanswerable claim to protection against
foreign competition ; and that you must either
continue that protection, or they will be unable
to bear your restrictions. Political considera-
tions of the .highest importance support *the
claims both of the Ship Owners and the Colonists.
We should seriously. consider the consequences
that may ensue from destroying a branch of trade
that in 1819 employed 17,500 British seamen,being
3,500 more than are voted for the whole ser,
vice of the Navy, and the; danger of. driving
these men into the employe of foreign, who may
perhaps soon again become ,hostile, statei. We
should also reflect upon the-impolicy of making
ourselves once more _ dependent upon foreign
powers for the supply of timber for the use of
our Navy ; who may'avail themselves of that cir-
cumstance to exclude us froin their ports, and
reduce us to the necessity of making peace
on their own terms, as 'they attempted to do
last war. To confide in them again, after the
conduct we then experienced, would be absolute
folly and infatuation. The importance of the Bri-
tish Colonies in 'North America is very great, and
if they continue to flourish as they have done
for some years past, they will soon become
an effectual barrier to the ambition of the United
States ; but if otherwise, a discontented and
diminished population will submit to them
on the first attack. If you lose your Colo
nies in North America, you will not long
retain those in the West Indies ; for they
will become dependent upon the United
States for their means of subsistence,
as well as for their supplies of timber; and the
wants and interests 'of mankind will bring them
together, in spite of all obstacles. The Govern-
ment of the United States is well aware, that, if
she increased her duties on British Manufactures,
they would find their way into her territories
through the British Provinces, without pay-
ing any duty whatever ; but let her once
become mistress of them, let her command
the Continent from the Mississippi to the
St. Lawrence, and she would possess the
means of making her
.non-intercourse and
non-importation Acts effectual; these provinces
are the only check you have upon her policy.---
If we look at the present state of the Timber
Trade,
,as divided between our own Colonies
and the Northern Powers of Europe, we shall
find that the imports from the latter have ex-
ceeded those from the former, on an average
of Abe, last three years ; and, therefore,
the Northern Powers have no reason to
complain that they do not enjoy a fair partici-
pation in the trade. They complain indeed of
great losses, arid so with equal truth do the
traders from the British Colonies ; but this
competition, though injurious to the importers,
has been beneficial to the British consumers
of timber, by lowering the price of the article.
As no charge of want of liberality can' justly
be brought against us by foreign powers, in our
present regulations of the Timber Trade, we
have a right to consider our own interests alone,
in any alterations we . may think it advisable
to adopt, and probably our manufacturers
should be the first object of our attention. The
Report states, that in so far as any alteration in-
troduced is favorable to foreign trade, it must-have
a tendency to produce an increased importation
from the north of Europe, 4nd thereby possibly
to induce an increased demand from that
quarter,- for the manufactures of Great Britain ;
and it goes on. to state that, " your Com-
" mittee are inclined to believe that an in-
" cresssed demand would be the result, as
" well from the desire for British manufac-
" tures that is said strongly to prevail in those
" countries, as from the extent to which the ex-
" port of them has been maintained, not-
" withstanding the burthens imposed on the
" importation of this important branch of
" their produce into the United Kingdom."
That the export of British manufactures
to the Northern Powers of Europe, does not
depend upon our import of their Timber,' is
manifest from this plain fact—that in the years
1817, 1818, and 1819, when the import of their
Timber was so much diminished by the competi-
tion of the British colonies, the export of British
manufactures to these Powers was .nearly three
times as much as in the years 1799, 1800,
and 1801, when they had the whole of the
Timber Trade in their own hands. The Power
particularly spoken of by one of the witnesses, as
feeling this strong desire for British manufac-
tures, is Norway ; and if really felt, it appears
singular that it has not been gratified, for a state-
ment is given by another witness, sheaving that
her shipments of timber to'this 'country, in the'
three years 1817, 1818, and 1819, amounted to
820,000/.5 and that her returns taken in British
manufactures, during the same period, amounted
only to 3123,000/. so that she has the means, but'
wants the will to increase her use of British manu-
factures. In short if we consult the interests of on-r'
mann facturers,we shall encourage the tradewithour
ColonieS in preference to that with foreign powers,
because foreigners only. may deal with ps, :bof
our Colonies must, and common sense :tells us
not to give up a certainty for an vincertainty.,
The consumers have an interest both in the qua-'
lity and :in the price of timber, andstlo• eeideace
given before the Committee .ishi;►:}Y.,Nalu
,
able, as it serves .to correct the violent prejn-:
dice that'had ,been excited against; the
,Colonial
timber, by the Report of the [Ands' cOmmittee.
is unfortunate, however, th 3t.a list given.in by
-. • .

one,. of the witnesses; of 123 Vessels built of
Colonial -Timber, from ten years
,to forty.seven
years old, now in actual employ, and on .Lloyds''
Register, of
.last
:year, was not., printed
the, Appendix, as, a
~ setk)ff to the .161
given.. in by Sir Robert Seppings; of ; the
frigates). whose.. average duration was only fonr
years. • But it appears, in his evidence; that. th,.:
timber of which these frigates were built, wa;
floated from Deptford; WoelwiCh; and -Cluithatti,
to the Contractors' yards; and the fact is,•that it
was Aeft upon the med, to- be wet or dry as
the tide ebbed and flowed, and worked up in-
that state. No wonder, that ships so constructed
were subject to the dry rot ; and this story. is
much less discreditable to the quality of the'
American Timber, than to the character of those
who condUcted this branch of the public service.
The Colonial Timber is certainly inferior to the
Baltic Timber ; but
,answers as well for many
purposes ; and by,corning into competition with.
it, keeps dowti the price for the benefit -of. the
.consumer. It has been asserted that to encourage
the import of. Colonial Timber, is to oblige the pub-
lic to pay a higher price for a worse commodity.. It
the Colonists applied for an Act of Parliament to
giVe them a monopoly of the Timber Trade, and
preclude the public from the opportunity of
purchasing any other, the objection would
be just ; but as every one is perfectly at-liberty
to give the preference to which timber he-pleases;
at . the difference of price, it surely is not very
reasopaDie to complain of having the option. One
of the Resolutions -before the House proposei
a 'reduction of the preient duty on Foreign
Timber; and this appears to ..t le, as I
fore stated, to be in direct oppositiim to
the evidence given. before the Committee. Alt
the witnesses practically concerned in the trade
state that the effect of this measure would
be to raise the price of the article abroad,
and not to lower it to the British consumer.
It also appeared in evidence, that both the Russian
and Prussian Governments have either reduced,
or wholly taken off, the duty they formerly im-
posed on the export of timber, in order to ena-
ble their subjects the better to maintain the com-
petition to which they were exposed with out
Colonies. We may, therefore,' reasonably con-
clude, that when that competition is diminish:-
ed, these duties will be revived, and thus
we shall sacrifice our own revenue, either to
increase the revenue of Foreign Powers, or
for the advantage of foreign individuals.—
Another objection to reducing the duty on Baltic
Timber is, that by so doing we shall diminish the
protection and lower the value of 'British Timber.
British Oak, of small sizes, now sells at only 41.
per load ; and of sizes fit for ship-building, from
40 to 60 feet meetings, at 6/. per load. These
.prices will not remunerate the grower, and if poll
reduce them still lower, you may bid adieu to all
expectation of an adequate supply. of native
timber. These considerations all tend to show
the itnpolicy of reducing the duty on Baltic timber.
That part 'of the Resolution which recommends
the imposition of a duty on Timber from the Bri-
tish Colonies, is. supported by the evidence,
and not objected .to by the Colonists them-
selves, who allow that it would have the
effect of .making theth more careful, both in
the selection': and conversion of, their Tim-
ber, and .: tend to -improve its character and
value, in the British market. This then is
merely a question of degree, and the only point
at issue is, what duty. it can safely bear ?
A calculation given in the. Appendix to the Re-
port of the Lords' Committee shows that the nett
proceeds of a load of Colonial Timber, which
costs 18s., are only ss. 4d., leaving a loss of more
than 70 per cent. to the importer ; and this is
nconfirmedi t teeo thisby thei
io
u evidencese . o
imposegi ett before
ad u
ttyh eorcmioos:
per, load on Colonial Timber, and take off 10s.
from the Baltic 'Timber, must altogether cruSh.a
trade already labouring Under such disadvan-
tages: The preponderating weight of the evi-
dence given before the Committee states 10s. per
load, in whatever way imposed, to be as much
as Colonial' Timber can bear. Indeed, even this
can only be justified by a prospective view of that
improvement in price, which may result from a
more careful selection of it in point of
,quality.,
and also from thatdiminished import, the effect of
which must soon' be felt. The number of ships
employed in the Timber Trade to the Colonies
last year, was two hundred and sixty less thaa
in the year before. Overtrading naturally leads
to undertrading ; and any violent corrective
in. the shape of duty, applied to .a trade
thus circumstanced, would . destroy it alto=
gether, and be ruinous to the great interests
with which it is connected.—Another con-
sideration, that ought to have weight on this
subject, is, the doubt whether Government-do
.not. stand 'pledged to the continuance of the eN
isting protection, with'the exception of the addi-
tional duty of 10s. 3d. imposed in the year 1813 ;
and therefore, whether .they, can fairly make au
alteration to the prejudice of the Colonists be-
yond that amount. From these conside-rations
1 shall oppose any greater.duty ; and when the
House considers that .the whole amount paid for
Colonial Timber goes into .the hands either of
the British manufacturer or
,the British ship-
owher, and thus 'contributes to the support of
natiottal' industry and national revenue, while the
amount paid for foreign timber, except the freight
of that proportion of it which is brought in -Bri-
tish ships, goes into.the.hands of foreigners, with-
out producing the same beneficial results, trust
that.they will think the remaining protection lett
to the timber of our Colonies is not more .than
sound -policy requires. I shaft now declare my
intention. of moving, in a proper stage of. these
proceedings, that •thelluty on- Baltic Timber,
stead of 555. :per load, 'continue as at .present,
655. per load.
The Ca %NICE:LT.OR of the EXClMUrn..observed,
that 'his Right. lion.' Friend's proposition was
founded upon 'a:liberallpolicy,.and the protection
of the .-British 'Colonies. The House was yot
prepared at that 'late hour .to pursue a discussion
of so much importance; heltherefore .proposed the
lionse should- agree .to the resolutions-pro forma.
They -Might then.he printed .and put into the
hands of-Members. 'lt would then he open. to
any Gentlemanto propose any amendment. I.le,