The Sun.
London, England, 1826-03-18 00:00:00

USURY LAWS.

Mr. lIEATIICOTE suggested that it would he convenient
to postpone till after the holidays the consideration of the Usury
Laws. The Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of
the Ekellequer) having promised to devote his attention to the
subject.
Mr. Serjeant ONSLO\V was understood to express his
acquiescence.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCII EWE R observed, that
there appeared to be a disposition to throw upon hie halide the
bantling, which certainly was none of his.—(A lough;)_,All
that had been said on the part of Ministers was, that when the
Bill of the lion. and Learned Gentleman 'came on I'o the second
.reading, the views of Governthent on the subject would be ex.
plained. As the time when this could must conveniently take
piece was in some measure referred to hint, he would take the
liberty of suggesting the 10th of April.
After a short conversation between Mr. Ileatheote, Mr. Sere
geant Onslciiv, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Bill
was finally ordered to be read a second time on Monday the
17th April.
COMillirrEEofsuppis—civiLcONTlNGENClES.
The House h;tving resolved itself into a Committee' of
Supply,
Mr. HERRIES reminded the house that a Vote for 100,000
had been already taken towards the Civil Con tingenciett of the
year. The Vote, he had now to move far, issitler this head, with
for 200,0001.
Mr. 111.1.111: objected to the. Estimates. Ile . thooght .the
country was nut in a situation to pay half a million or money a
year for A miniteattiore. The expence of the Miniater it taint ('on.
suls, both in Europe and South America, was enormous, atid
he entreated the Committee to consider whether we could go on
in this increasing ratio of expence. Ile thought the Missions
to the minor European Courts, possessing no influence, rtyl-;
gether unnecessary, and that those to the greater Powers were
upon a settle of extravagance entirely unjustifiable. The ..filis-
Idol to Paris was charged in the estimates the enormous 'sure
of 30,0001., a sum greater than was paid by America foe the
whole of her Diplomatic establishments. In the year 1792,
the whole at' our expence under this head of service, was
105,0001. In the present year it was little short of half a'mil-
lion. Our Ministers abroad were paid so well as to be above
their work ; reduce them one half and the work would be better
done. Thole estimates went on increasing year after year....
Ile saw there was no less a sum charged, for repairing the house
of the Embassy at Paris, than 12,0001. These things went on
increasing, and he had no doubt that t 1 'expellee of the :Em-
bassy at Paris, would in a very few yearn be 50,0001. it it were
not checked. The lion. Member then enumerated in detail the
different sums charged for the expencus of our Minister. at
different Comte, and -contended that in every instance the'
charge was excessive,
Mr. Secretary Cit NNI NO rose and said, that lie would en-
deuvour to tbllow tile Hon. Gentiontin as closely as he could
through the whale it his objections, and he would thenk4lirn
to remind him if he failed with respect to tini of theV"Ert's t°
which he hail adverted, to give a satisfactory ane*Alv.l.V.l._htr
e„1•,),!
Hon. Gentleman adverted to the expellees of eetfie,647:,`,Vip:',,,wi..
idishment, and when he included anew iel the r 10•2 ,m,t thoe
son he had instituted het veen the extimatee 2_..6ii.,
ck_ _
~,
of the present day; ha most have fergoottivir; or geotua"nuirt
:.ystein which had itikett Oiler, by Mei .., :
_ t 0,.. spect to the consuls
he
iAlnplillltiOn of augmented mitlanits, 70,, 11. - . .
°Cah 14 child loi advocate
0 concurrence Cr/ 'I ihnteitl ivo If. )
nt(i thanweh.
it. ::'lt she.
ltioytiiii , ,
,a'slot'ciratileg,oml
re: :ete)larf:71;:::el i:
~_ll.
v.' ei:f4ef4:ol ;';r in' yrilei
ti teein.
rli :: ':alib ifV:etll-"eil :iti, :nll'ostiano:r
se: r i w
le .it'lltcui 1
mat
t':
responsible, he

into effeet in a manner the most advantageous to the country-
He would not, indeed, eulogise his own opinion that fees,
wider due regulations, were, m many cases, a better mode of
remunerating some of the lower and least important classes
of public servants than salaries. Such, however, had not been
the opinion of the House, such more especially had not been
the opinion of the Hon. Gentleman, and he confessed he thought
it a little hard that the Hon. Gentleman should now turn round
and condemn, in no measured terms,anaugmentation of charge,
incidental to and inseparable from the system, which he had
strenuously and successfully urged the. House to adopt. He
could say, that ever since he came into office, his time had been
'emidoved in searching, he might say, all over the world, to
discover what was the just measure of compensation to be af-
forded in every separate instance, for the iosa of the emoluments
formerly derived from tees. was a painful duty. thus to be
engaged in conflict with the private Interests of individuals.
_However pleasant it might be to make reductions in the gross,
it was by no means a pleasant task to apply those reductions to
the incomes of individuals; in the former case it was to shoot
into a crowd, but it was a very different thing to those who had
to select the victims, and entry the general sentence into un-
spanng execution upon individuals. The addition to the pub-
hc charge for the salaries of Consuls, hail been produced
by proportionate ditninution of the charges upon trade,—
The returns of the amount of consular charges upon trade,
gave the sum of 01,1501., the real amount was certainly more,
probably not less than 70.0001" It was the non. Gentleman's
-system, and not his, that this charge should be taken from
trade and put upon the Oldie. lie must beg to be excused
from delendiug_the principle, he must leave that to the author
of the system, but it was certainly rather hard, that he should I
fall upon the charge necessarily emanating from his own sys-
tem, as an unexpected and enormous charge..--(ilear, hear,
hear 1).---But this was not all, he had thought it his duty
last year, to apply to the Turkey Company, for the pur-
pose of throwing open to the public the trade With the Le-
vant. This application had been successful, and in conse-
. &ponce of that arrangement, the agents formerly paid by
the Company were now paid by the public, this circumstance
alone accounted' for an increased charge to a considerable
amount. The charges from which trade had been relied in other
places amounted to 80,000!. .The payment formerly made by
the Levant Company to 11,000!., the whole relief to trade,
therefore, was 61,0004 The addition to the public charge
was, however, no' more titan 411,0001. The House having
chore to put itself in the place of die private mere) ant, he
hail a right so to compare these mounts. Ile had endea-
voured to execute to the best of his power, not his own pur-
pose, hut that of the Hon. Gentleman, and he had also effected
a saving of 12,000/. With respect to the other estimates at
which the Hon. Gentleman had alluded, which had indeed al-
ready passed, he meant those foe South'America, he was enden-
venting to get them into shape as fast as possible. He had
found considerable difficulty in determining the proper standard
by which to regulate the allowances of our residents in these
States. It was obvious that no measure could be obtained for
properly estimating this from the allowances in Europe. lie
had endeavoured to procure the best returns from the different
States of South America, with respect to every particular ne-
cessary to guide his judgment. There must of course be some
difficulty in forming an accurate calculation of the necessary
expenses of living in countries where the prices of articles
bore no relation to those we were accustomed to in Europe;
where, for instance, said the Right Honourable Gentleman,
" you can buy a horse for five shillings, and it will cost you
two guineas to get him shod." Ile had only one precedent to
which he could refer as a guide, that of the Court of Brazil ;
and he had availed hitt:raid it astir as it would apply. With
• respect to the European Illistdons, he had followed the report
of the Committee of 1016, excepting that he had reduced the
-charge further than the Committee had recommended. But he
Gault! not consent to carry theprinciple the on. Gentleman
li
had laid down, so far as to withdraw, our missions from the
minor Courts, because those Courts were insignificant, or rather
not immediately powerful. That such a measure should be re-
commended by the lion. Member, surprised him beyond all
imaginable expression of surprise. He thought the policy "of
this country had always been to foster and protect the smaller
states, and above all to do all we could to maintain in them a
sense of national dignity and independence. It was ime
possible to foresee the changes which might occur, or the
importance to which con-ingencies now the most unexpected
ntight, at seine future day, elevate even the least considera-
btu of these States. It was impossible for him to point out
.the time, or to anticipate which of these States might be the
first, to raise high their height Which circumstances had laid
low, but it was not difficult to foresee that in the future struggles
44 Europe they were some of them at least destined to bear no
unimportant part. lie would now endeavour to follow the
.Dion. Gentleman front generals to particulars. The lion. Lien-
. dentin apprehended that the expense of the French Embassy
would at last go to the tietiotentof iio,oool. This apprehension it
would be in vain for him to attempt to remove, ut the same time
the item which had mote particularly attracted the attention of
the Hon. Gentleman was one which he must cee.fess demanded
explanation. Ile would give a short history of the transaction.
.In 1814, it was thought expedient to purchase a house for the
Embassy at Pale. This was 12 years since, and no expellee
had till, now been incurred for repairs,: ;Repairs having at length
become necessary, Mr. Smirke and 81r. NVyatt had been succes..
sively
,sent to Paris in order to survey and present an extimute
of the expense of repairing the house, and with directions also
to report as to the probability of procuring any other house
suitable for the residence of the Ambassador. The report, of
Plr. Wyatt, to his utter astonishment anti dismay, presented
hap with an estimate of the expense at' repairing the house and
,renewing the furniture, which amounted to 23,000/. Upon that
he had decided at once that the house should be sold, provided
it would produce a sum the interest of which added to 1,0001.
per annum, the amount deducted on account of house rent from
the annual salary of the Ambassador, would be sufficient to pro-
cure another suitable residence. The report received in answer
to their inquiries upon this subject was discouraging. It itp-
_peered that houses or the description proper. for the residence of
, our Ambassador had considerably diminished. From the rent
paid for another hotel by Lord Granville during the repair of
his own residence, and from that paid by the Duke of North.
. umberlanti during his stay in Paris at the period of' the Corona-
tion, the fact was sufficiently verified that a suitable house
could not be hired without a very serious annual charge.—
There were, besides, objections to giving up the Hotel of the
Embassy. It might have done very well if' they had never had
is house; but they did receive from :ill parties who took any in.
terost in die dignity and importance of' the English Embassy,
remonstrances upon the impropriety duelling the house; they
were told that sale would do much mischief, that it would
create the idea of the connection between the two Courts having
become home, and that the consequences might be most un-
pleasant. This certainly: would not alone have determined their
. conduct, but judging from what Lord Granville bad been
obliged to pay during the time the hotel was under repair, and
from what the Duke of Northumberland also had been corn.
pelted to pay, and considering also that only one other nation
possesaed an hotel for its Ambabeador, they bad been convinced
, that no saving could he effected by getting rid of the house, but
abate on tho contrary, it must have led to such a charge as
would have struck the Honourable Gentleman with still greater
sArprlse than he hail now exhibited. It would have been
impowilble not to compensate the Ambassador for the addi-
tional expellee, the it would otherwise have swept away
more than one third, and nearer ono half of his salary. They
had therefore determined to repair the House, and although
they considerably reduced the estimate of 111 r. Wyatt, they
found that they could not have the house properly repaired,
like an English house, so that every door should shut and every
window open, at a smaller expellee than 12,0001. This was
the aunt which appeared in the present estimates. There was
besides, he thought, some force m the argument that the Bri-
, deb Embassy should have an established residence. It was
e--.true that no nation required less than England the aid of ad-
ventitious importance, but in every country, and certainly in
France more then in England, the external appendages of dig-
.nity bed mottle degree of importance, The only nation besides
this which .htal a hotel for its embassy was Russia, and it was,
perhaps, not altogether unimportant that the Ambassador of
England should hold his heed us high es the Russian Ambaesae
, dor. Upon theeevariousconsideratione they had determined upon
the expediency of incurring the expenses of repairing, rather I
than resorting to the oilier alternative, that of Belling the house. I
With respect to the salary of the Ambaesor, if it would effort
any tatistaction to the Hon. :limber, hetould assure him, that
the salary, with the addition of half as much more fur his pri.,
vats fortune, was not equal to his expenses. He had thus shewn,
in the instance of eateeiyagance selected by the Hon. Member,
that the charge was not greater than could be fully justified.
There was another circumstance which had contributed to swell
the amount of the present estimate. He alluded to the special 4
Eanb.443r to the ging of' fiance on the occasion of hist eurona-
den. The Noble Duke, who had been appointed to that. rap. I
sassy, had expressly stipulated that be should be permitted to
ftionay the whole of the expense out of his own funds. This P4tipU.
watt not Of course rejected, but he should have been i
a
„awned if, having accepted it literally, they had permitted it
to be lilt rally fulfilled. The Ineallllll hit upon was that of
presentiog to the Duke of. Northumberland, in the name
P art of to equipment, which might de-
of ble Sqvereign,
geond to hiu,posterity AA a inemorttel. oft, thedistinghishedser-
vice in arilieb he had been employed.
dhad
accordinglybeen
4,,ter • to proot him with a diatom) hilted sword, of the
value oflo_,ooo/. Although it was highlY l2echating on the part.
•of the Noble Duke to make the splendid otter he had matte, to to
~highly becoming on the part of tiloyernment not to reject it,
to mark the sense
Yet he-thought it was.equallY bec""g
rained of intt ,xalted liberality by some valuable amhenduring
„um,. Hear, hear would again, before he sat
'iferegs to the Comisolate Establishment, it was no child
110 contended that he had a right, a perfect right,

to calculate the whole amount of fees and distribute it in
due proportions amongst the Consuls. This, however, he had
not done.
Mr. BERNAL thought the Consuls-General were in man,
instances unnecessary. He thought 10501. for a gold snuff-
box for the Danish Minister, and 10001. to the Russian Chan-
cery, required explanation.
Mr. Secretary CANNING did not very widely differ from
the lion. Gentleman with respect to, ConsUls-General. He had
in fact recently abolished three of these Consulships. In coun-
tries, however, where there were a great many Consuls at dif-
ferent points,-the central office of a Consul-General appeared to
be necessary. For instance at Paris, if there were no Consul-
General, it would follow that the Ambassador would fre-
quently be embarrassed by matters of detail with which
he ought to have nothing to do, unless when they ripened
into such importance as to become a subject worthy of
national attention. The presents to which the Honourable
Meniberiulverted had been made in pursuance of the practice
of civilized Europe for centuries. The amount of such presents
would, of coarse, be in proportion to the number of diplomatic
1 transactions. In his former address to the House he had, he
found, underrated the proportion of the whole expenses which
Dord Granville sustained out of his private fortune. His ex-
-1 peaces, he could now state, were to double the amount of his
salary.
Mr. BARING said, that he had been one of those who had
complained of the exorbitant amount of Consular fees. His
object hail' been to obtain a regulation, rather than a total abo-
lition of fees. The Consuls formerly had the power in ninny
cases of extorting whatever fees they thought proper. The
Consular system which he should prefer would be to have
Consuls of a mixed character. Formerly when he was in the
habit of going much abroad, the most respectable merchants
generally had the. appointments of Consuls. The present al-
lowances to Considering that they were prohibited front em-
barking in any mercantile pursuit, was scarcely sufficient to
enable them to mix in the society of the higher class of iner.
chants.

31r. Secretary CANNING replied that the Act of Parlia-
ment was 'perhaps susceptible of improvement. Government
was compelled to adopt one general rule—trade or no trade—
with respect to Consuls. lie did not apprehend any dangi r
from established merchants performing the duties of Consuls,
but there might be mischief in persons going out as Consuls,
and afterwards becoming merehants. From the very circum-.
stance of their being Consuls, they would be subject to invite-
dons to enter upon mercantile speculations. The Hon. Gen-
tleman and himself were very nearly agreed upon the general
principle. lie had continued some merchants as Consus, but
in these circumstances the merchant had been the original, the
Consul the accidental character.
'Mr. SYKES said that he also had objected to fees principally
on the ground of their exorbitaney. He complained of the
number of Consuls ip difrezent countries being disproportionate
to the magnitude and importance of our mercantile transactions
with them. In solbe countries he considered the number ex-
cessive, whilst in other countries, and particularly in the North
of Europe, the number was too small—we hid only two in
Sweden, one in Norway, and one in Denmark.
Mr. ELLICE agreed in the view taken by the Right Hon.
Gentleman. • It would be impossible to find two more compe-
• tent and intelligent persons than those he had named.
hlr. lIITAIE said, he had heard no one express a doubt as to
the propriety of the principles upon which the Right Hon.
Gentleman had acted. He did not, however, assent •to the
ratio upon which the Right lion. Gentleman had fixed the
Consular salaries. Ile begged to ask how the Vice Consuls
were to be regulated.
Mr. Secretary CANNING said, that the Vice Consuls were
liable to the general regulations.
Mr. lIUME again said that the salaries ought to be reduced.
He complained that the general expellee of Ambassadors had
been continually increasing, and contended that it ought to be
reduced. He, understood that there was no establishment in
London kept up in auch'a' Style as that of the Ambassador
at Paris.

A 1lES1111.31—" Vely well." •
Mr. HUMS--" Very well! but I say it is not very well.
I say laugh.)—H, was very tine to give enter.
tainments to 2000 people in one night, and he had no objection
to it if the Ambassador did it at his own expence. It was not
hospitality....it was extravagance and waste; and he protested
against it from the bottom of his heart. Ile expected that the
fhrther sum of 70,0001. would be added to the amount of the
Estimate.
A.r. HERMES said that the sum was included in the Esti.
mate, and formed the unexpected charges which could not be
estimated last year.
11 r. U (JAIL said there was no account of the particulars, and
wished to know whether they should hare them next year.
Mr. HERMES said that the lion. Gentleman could have
them to-morrow if he liked. •
Mr. HUME said there was ono stun of 7,000/. and some
smaller sums for the payment of fees. He wished to know to
whom these fees were paid.
Mr. HERR lES said they were fees payable by law to offi.
cera of the Treasury and Exchequer.
Mr. HUME said that a Secretary of Legation or Embaisy
could not he appointed without a large fee being paid to these
offieers, lie thought this too bad.
Mr. BERRIES mitt that ninny public officers were paid for
important dvties by these fees. It at some future time those
fees might, in the opinion of the House, he abolished and sa-
laries substituted, the change could be effected.
Mr. HUME said he should move for returns of these fees.
Mr. HERRI ES—" You have. them already."—(A laugh.)
Mr. HUM E then put various questions relative to the oaths
of Ambassadors, the appointment of a Consul at Algiers, and
the expence of plate and a canopy of state for the Embassy at
Aludrid. He protested against silver boxes being given to the
Governors of such places as Sierra Leone, Antigua, and Domi.
nice, and to the great Seal, upon new appointments. He also
complained of the item of charges for the Life Guards, on
account of the extravagant frippery of their dress. Nothing
mild be more painful to a man of feeling than to see the
gaudy and expensive frippery in which the band of the Guards
were dressed when they assembled before the King's Palace,
surrounded by thousands of squalid, starving people, who had
to pay for these gewgaws. The expence of these kettle drums
and trumpets was enormous. He understood that a trumpeter's
jacket cost upwards of 701. lie next complained of the esta-
blishment at Berbice for supporting slaves, which had came
into the, hands of Goverment, and which cost the country
nearly 4,000/. a year, there being only about 300 Negroes. Ile
Wished to know whether any arrangement was to be made tOr
ridding the country of this expence. (These questions were
each put as the Chairman was is the act of reading the vote,
and each received a matter of. course answer.)
Mr. CROKE Ilobserved with regard to the silver boxes, that
they cost about 41. each, and the only way to effect a saving
upon that item would be to have them made of brass or tin.—
The lion. Secretary also stated,, that the dresses of which the
lion. Member complained' as being unworthy the English cha-
racter, were at least as old as the time of Henry VIII.
Mr. BLAIR considered that it would be highly improper
and inexpedient to send the slaves adrift who had been protect-
ed at the establishment to which the Hon. Member bad alluded.
-Under proper management, lie thought the establishment might
support itself.
r. lit: RAMS said, that there had been a report made upon
the subject, and that another was expected. NI lien the sec ind
report was made, it would be decided what course should be
pursued. •

Mr. HUM E said, that if properly managed, he had no doubt
of the establishment being able to maintain itself. But every
thing, the Government touched, was sure to go wrong --(A
latigh.)—Expencc and extravagance followed thew wherever
they Went; and what could be dune by others, never succeed-
edwith them:-4A laugh.)

The (.:HA NCELI,Oit of the EXCHEQUER said,that this
Institution had been thrown upon. the hands of the Treasury by
a very respectable individual, who seemed to think the Govern-
ment the only persons who could manage it.. At all events, he
could say, that feW .thin •s would give him more pleasure than
to get rid of it to any body who cold manage it better; but he
feared that it was unmanageable by any body.
Mr. 11U311: risked why the Government did not emancipate
the slaves, and get rid of it in that way. They were willing to
make thesexpet intent of emancipatitm upon the slaves who were
the property of individuals, but not upon their own.
Mr. 1314 A l IL protested against the course recommended by
the Hon. Member., - .

Mr. II U.II E said that whether .they were emancipated or not,
they ought not to be kept at the expence of the people of this
country. Let them be hired out—there were plenty of people
in the colony who were ready to hire them. If these slaves
could not maintain themselves, let them starve. .
Mr. 1i Ell it IES repeated that the Government were waiting
for the second report before they made any arrangement.
Mr. MIME wished to know whether any good was effected
by the expenditure of the sum for sending a mission to the In-
terior of Africa

Mr. W. HORTON made an observation in the affirmative.
Alr. HUM E said that in the sum for the purchase of a na-
tional gallery of Paintings, he saw but one Item of 3,000 gui-
neas fora Holy Family by Corregio. This was a large sum,
and he wished to know under what regulations the expenditure
of the public money on this account was placed.
Sit C. LONG said he recollected distinctly that when this
vote was proposed last year it had the support of the lion.
Member, who said that the want of a national gallery was a
'disgrace to the country. Other Hon. Gentlemen on the same
side of the House urged the Government to purchase whole
collections at the time when Mr. Angeratein's Gallery had just
been bought. He then thought it would be better not to eel-
lect,indiscritninately in that manner, but to select the best plc-
WO that could be found. The expenditure of the foods was

intrusted to persons who mere considerod competent to their
management, and judges.of the works of art proper to be placed.
in such a collection. They were, Lord Aberdeen, Sir 0. Cock-
burn. Sir T. Lawrence—he himself had the honour to be one
—and a Gentleman extremely competent to judge. of the cha-
racter and value of any Picture which might be offered—he
meant Mr. Se„our. .
Lord J. RUSSELL expressed an opinion that if the Gal-
lery were intended to improve the arts of the country, it would
be better to have pictures in every school, and evetry style, so
as to slim the student what had been the progresi"of art:
Sir C. LONG said. that such a collection as that recom-
mended by the Noble Lord might be curious, but he could not
think it was what a National Gallery should he.
Mr. H UM B said that two men, who were considered equally
good judges, might value a picture—the one at 1,000 guineas
and the other at a farthing. 'There was a charge for a mail
bOat at Bahama, which he considered to be out of place in these
Estimates.

Mr. W. lIORTON said, that wherever the item might he
placed it was necessary.
Mr. HUME next adverted to a charge of 550/. to be. paid to
a gentleman engaged in making out tables of the progress of
public annuities. Ile wished to know when these tables were
expected to be ready.
Mr. HERRIES said, that the subject was one of great diffi-
culty, bu:. he hoped that it would shortly be completed.
Mr. CROKER and a Member whose name we could not
hear, bore testimony to the diligence and talent of the gentle-
man in question.
Mr. HUME said there was an item of 2,000/. for sending
over the ensigns of the Garter to King .John VI. of Portugal.
He thought it shameful that such a aunt should be expended
upon services performed by their own ships.
Mr. HERMES said, that certain fees were payable to offi-
leers employed upon such service by long established usage.
Mr. II LI3IE wished to know what was the meaning of the
I charge for reimbursemeht of fees to the Bishops sent to the
%Vest Indies.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
these were fees payable in the first instance by persons taking
certain offices, in the same way 85 upon the passing of Patents.
The fees were taken out of the first year's salary. He himself
had paid five or six hundred pounds. It was considered that
these Prelates, being appointed to situations which bad not
existed before, and being sent to an unhealthy climate where
no enjoyment could be expected but that arising from a discharge
of their duties, they should be reimbursed for the fees sops yable.
Mr. H wished to see such fees abolished altogether.
Mr. Al ()NCI( did. not complain of the fees being repaid, but
'that they should be paid at all out of the pockets of the people.
Sir .1. NEWPORT thought it high time that all fees should
be abolished, but particularly those payable to the Lord Chan-
cellor, and the High Officers of State.
Mr, rftillE said, there were charges in the Estimate for the
' issue of Seals to two of the Colonies. If these islands wanted
seals, he thought they ought to pay for them.
Mk. BERRIES said, it had been the established custom to
supply them.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that of one item they were told it
must be paid because it had arisen out of a new state of things,
and of another, because it was conformable to established usage.
Now if they were to pay for the new things which arose by the
changes of time, lie thought they ought to get rid of old charges
which from the same causes became useless.
Mr. BERRIES observed that these seals were necessary, and
it had been the practice to supply them free of expenee.
Mr. HUME thought 400/. a large stun for an Index of the
Irish Acts of Parliament passed in the last Session.
Mr. GOUI‘BURN said, that the work was of great utility,
and by no means of easy construction.
After a few words upon this subject from a Alember, Mr.
BUTTERWOR,TII, Sir .I. NEwronT and Mr. H zit HIES,
HUM E said lie was astonished to sec charges for the
affairs of the East India Company, when he understood that the
accounts between them and the Government were settled last
year.
Mr. II ERRIES said that an account of so large a nature re-
quired &He to be wound up.
Mr. Secretary CANNING having been connected with the
Board of Controul, recollected how some of this eXpence was
incurred. The Government had found it convenient to remove
the India Board from Whitehall, where they had to pay no taxes.
The house to which they removed was in the parish of St. Mar-
tin's, and had not a similar exemption. The Govermnent ac-
cordingly agreed to hear that expence.
After a few words front Mr. Hu ME' Mr..CItOKEn, and Mr.
HE antra, the vote was then agreed to.
The next was for a Sum of 15,0001.. for the Consular Esta-
blishments. . . •

Mr. HUME asked .why Mr. Wiselitt&been put ou a retired
pension.' •
allr..Secretary CANNING said, that he found Mr. Wise's
office useless,' and lie abolished it. By inducing Mr. Wise to
retire upon an allowance, a considerable expence was saved to
the country. It was against Mi. 'Wise's interest and his wish
tl.retire; and the Hon. tientleman_could not suppose that pub.
lie officers were to be dismissed without competent provision.
Mr. HUME did not wish Mr. Wise to have been dismissed,
.but he wished to know why ho had not been transferred to some
other situation, for which he was capable. No pensions ought
to he granted to persons capable. of service.
..Lord J. RUSSELL thouglit•the Gevernment should have a
certain discretion in appointmentm;4if this nature.
Mr. Secretary CANNING said, that if the lion. Gentleman
meant that so long as there was a vacancy in the world they
were not to put a man on a retired allowance, he could only
say, that if the discretion of the executive was to be limited to
that, he would not exercise it fur balfan hour.—(Hear !)
Mr. HUME repeated what he had before said upon tbe.sub.
ject ' The vote was then agreed to.

Mr. GOULBURN said, that before he put any vote of the
Irish Estimates into the handset' the Chairman, he would state,
that as particular circumstances connected with the day kept
n
Lleetlieknel y away,ot lie should only propose such votes as
would create opposition. If the votes were not
tany(
notlen b
gut through before the holidays, inconvenience might probably
arise
.

Along conversation between Sir J. NEWPORT, 31r. 0
TAN, Mr: Huss, Mr. 00111.11l1w1r, and Mr. CANNING en.
Kurd, which terminated in the postponement of the Irish Esti.
mates to Monday next, and on an understanding that the items
objected to (namely, those respecting Education and the Linen
Board patronage) should be postponed tier consideration to a
future period, and their discussion deferred until the motion for
the Speaker's leaving the Chair, on the motion forgoing into u
Committee of Supply on n future day.
COLONIAL ESTIMATES.
Mr. W. HORTON in moving the Miscellaneous Estimates
for the-Colonies, said he anticipated no objection of a serious
nature to the items from any individual in that House. A de.
crease of 16,000!. had taken place since last year In the Colonial
Estimates, and lie believed still, great reduction would take
place in consequence of transition from a state of war to
that of peace. As to Newfoundland there was Scarcely anti
charge upon This country, as the revenue was nearly equal to
the estimates. That for New Smith Wales was only half of
that which it had been last year, and he had no doubt that
C
country would soon be in a condition to support its own charges.
some of the most Important ItClllSof charge would
thebe
project of uniting the Civil and
the Upper and Lower Canada,
Religious
ct
ot of i
Eb, et
:ter,
sb) ri cl
ee tin
of
ni t
s
and to this object in puticular he could anticipate no possible
objection.
After a few words from Mr. Host?, the Right Hon:Gentle.
MO Moved a Resolution, that dip sum of 20,0001. should be
voted the Civil ant' Military Servic: of New Brunswick.
For Prince Edward's Island • £ 2,000
For Newibundland . • • • • 11,135
For Nova Scotia . . . • • • . • 11133
For New South ‘Vales . . • • • • 20,942
For Sierra Leone . . • • • 15,460
For the African Ports . • • • • 45,042
For Expences defrayed formerly out of the Aisny.Er.
traordinaries . , . • • • • 2,442
For the Charges for Stores in New South Wales • 49,363
The House resumed and the Report was ordered to be re-
ceived on Monday next.
EAST INDIA WRITERS BILL.
Mr. C. W. %VVNN moved that the East India Company's
Writers Bill,should be rend a first time, which was agreed to,
and the Bill ordered to be read a second,time on l'
and next.

A LE-1101 ISE LICENSES.
The 11111 for the alteration and also the improvement of Ale.
house Licenses was rend a first tune, and ordered to be read a
second time upon the Int of April.

IRISH MANOR COURTS.
Mr. Secretary UOULDURN gave notice that on Monday
next, he should move for leave to bring in u Bill for regulating
Manor Courts in Ireland;

The flight. Honi.llB4ll,:imilTETsitsAll44aTlsEoB. }cave notice that he
should bring forward the Irish Estimates in a Committee of
Supply on Monday next.

MILITIA CLOT II ING.
Mr. Hunt moved fora Return of the amount of the Cloth-
ing for all the Militia Regiments in Great Britain.—Ordered.

- --
SLAVES REDEEMED.
Mr. MIRE bita moved for an. Account of the Expendi.
ture and Application of the sum of 40,0001. allotted for the
ransom of negro slaves in 1826, and of 12,000/. for the same
purpose in 1020.....0rdered.
The other Orders of the Day were then agreed to, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter to ELEVEN O'CLOCK.