The Sun.
London, England, 1821-04-13 00:00:00

of:P.lvilogei: Itt whi.' stifeiLY7 s petkiOn ad-
ftrOssH toVitat./Ioiise in the year 17.91, that )54
ti majority of that Ilotisat
and the assertion-was not then 'etintradicted... It
'Was arso a:short time shier,' stated in another pe-
aition that the late Sir JONI Johnstone had by
his will left two seats in that House to cerlfAill
individuals, - and an extract of the will waes In-
serted in the petition. The Hon. Member, after
Several observations on the same subject, eonelud-
ed by moving that the petition be referred to a
Committee of Privileges.'
Sir J. opposed the. amendment. The
right of voting for this Borough had been decided
by law several years ago. lt was not true that
the seats for the Borough in question were filled
.by relations or dependants of the Noble Lord al-
luded to: They were filled by men of the high-1
'6l.st respectability in the kingdom ; and it was
weil known that many Honourable Members-on
the other side of the House were returned by the
influence of Peeis.
Mr. IleasT considered that the House was
bound to refer the Petition to a Committee of
PrivilegeS. 'This was • the usual Parliamentary
course, where the interference of a Peer was
complained of.
Lord LOWTHER opposed the Amendment.
Mr. LANIRTON said, the argument of the. Hon.
Baronet -did not justify the proceeding: complain-
ed of by the Petitioners. If Members were re-
turned on that side of the 'House by the inter.
ference of Peers it was. a gross abuse, and one
abuse did norjustify another:
Mr_ HasKISSON said, the Petition was con-
fined to the statement of a general evil, coupled
with a-complaint of the decision of the Honse as
to the right of voting for the Borough. No par-
ticular elettiOn was complained of, and no spe-
cific ground was laid for:the interference of- the
House. The subject of the Petition might be
Very proper for reference, Upon a motion respect-
ing the general state 'of the representation which
the lion. Member for Durbdin intended to bring
under the attention of the Horne ; but he (Mr.
H.) did not think it a case to justify a reference
to a Committee of Privileges.
Lord A LTHO RP said the present was riot a ge-
neral complaint; for it alluded to an individual in-.
stance, and an individual peer, though he was not
mentioned by name : and it also stated, that that
Peer influenced the election. He (Lord A.) con-
sidered this a direct. Breach of Privilege, and
highly fit to he considered in a Committee. He
should, therefore, vote for the Amendment.
Mr. LEUSIKISON eXpialE:ql. The complaint
was of influence, not interference. He believed
the natural influence which was possessed by
Peers, in consequence of their property; was
never considered illegal.
Mr. MONCK said, he considered this a case
peculiarly calling for the attention of the House..
The subject of complaint was, if true, a direct
breach of privilege ; and, if this Petition was not
rafif one to call for the relief of the Hetise, he
should like to be informed what was a Case
calling for such relief this were passed over
he thought there would be but oneopinion on the.
subject out of the walls of the House,' and that
opinion would have no tendency to raise 'a confi-
dence in the people upon the acts of the Hone.
Mr. IftereurNsos supported the Petition at
some :length.
Mr. SsurTnrathought the chief complaint of the
Petitioners waa; the -contraction of their elective
franchise. He. was not prepared to saftliateall
influence .was corrupt,- or that the influence Which
might be possessed by a Nobleman from neigh-
bourhood, 'from rank, and from talent; .was just
matter of complaint. As he was' called upon at'
the impulse of the moment to give his vote, it
would.be against the amendment.
Mr. WYN:an said, that. in his opinion this was
not a Petition -which could properly be referred
to a Committee of Privileges.' The 'complaint
was too general, and came besides with a com-
plaint of the decision of the House. Besides, a,
committee of Privileges could do nothing in such
a case as the present, unless the Nobleman in
question held some office under the. Crown, in
which case the House might address the Crown
to remove him. He recollected, that some years
ago, a, complaint against the Duke of Bolton, for
interference upon an election, was referred to a
Committee of Privileges, which could not-sug-
gest any relief for the evil, because the Duke
held no office under the Crown.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said if the position of the
Hon. 14ember was correct, the sooner the• House
'rescinded its resolution upon the subject the
better. It was well known that at the begin-
ning of every Session the Bouse came to a Reso-
lution declaring the interference of a Peer re-
spec-tino4e election of a Member -of Parlia-
ment to be a Breach of Privilege; and if such a
resolution could not be enforced, the voting it
was a mere farce. If the Iron. Member had even
concurred 'in such a Resolution, knoWing it could
.
not bO' ftitte-d, .11e had not regarded the dignity
of the House.

Mr. IFV-ri“E explained.--Strangers were then
ordered to withdraw, and the House divided;
when there appeared
For the'Amendment - 33
Against it - 82
Ma ority against the Amendment -49
The Marquess of TAVIST.OOK presented a Pe-
tition from certain owners and occupiers of land
hi the county of Bedford, complaining of Agri-
cultural Distress.—Laid on the table.,
Mr. DA wsort presented a Petition, from the Se-,
paratists of Belfast, praying the ifouse to release
them from the obligation of taking an oatb.--Laid
on the table.'

USURY LAWS.
Mr. Serjeant Olisr.ow rose, pursuant to notice,
to bring on his motion touching the repeal of the
present Usury 11,awr. The Learned Serjeant
Etated,that it was in 1,810 he had first the honour
to bring'this subject before the house, and at
that time the subject wait a good deal discussed,
itiough'O decisive step was taken upon it. The
Committee them, upon the evidence of the most
respectable witnesses, declared thAt the present •
Usury Laws were most inefficient. They had
the effect of increasing the rates of interest and
doubling the securities on annuities. He knew
instances where five iiVeR were insured on annui-
ties. The invariable effect of these IAWS was to,

make it diM'citlt to raise Morey. The Hon. and
Learned Serjeant then read, the Resohitions of
the Committee of 181 x, wherein they declared:t
that these laws were against the.commerdial undi
landed interests. The liinn..and Learned Mem-.
her then entered rittli a :gene.ral -review of the
Usury Laws, and contended that the operation.
of them was equally unjust as injurious. A late:4
Merrier of this House (Sir Samuel Shepherd)
had changed his opinion on the subject, in conse-
quence of 'having read Mr. Bentham's book, which
convinced him that the doctrines of 1)r. Ad'am,
Smith were erroneous. Le ConfAuded by Mov-
ing for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the laws'•
regulating the interest on Money, and the rate
thereof. • --. . •
Mr. DAVENPORT said, that the adoption of the
measure would produce the worst possible effect'
i the country, .partiCularly on the agricultural.
interest. He, hoped the. Hon. and Learned M2III- •
ber would withdraw his motion. •
•Sir ROBERT HErtori made some observations to
the same effect, and said that if the Bill should
pass into a law, he hoped the title -would be al-
tered, and that it would be called" A Bill for
the more speedily ruining of the young Nobility.".
—(A laugh.), •
Lord ALTHOP.P did not see that the measure"
would be attended with all the injurious conse4 .•
quences"whiCh Gentlemen anticipated. lie could=
not conceive bow the landed interest was likety-
to suffer by it. Capitalists could get eiglit•per
cent: on mortgage, and eleven on annuities, jet.
they were unwilling to transfer their money to
the purchase of annuities. He was glad the-mea-
sure had been introduced, and he, thought this a
very proper time for.giving it that consideration
which it deserved.
• Mr. Pnrwrs made some observations in sup.
port of the motion. In his opinion tempor'ary.
difficulties would be removed by the repeal.of the
laws in question ; whereas, in consequence 'of
their operation, every sort of exaction was now
'practised on persons in want of money.
Mr. GORDON deprecated the measure, as moist
objectionable. The effect of it would be to add--
to the difficulties under which the needy were at.
present labouring.
Mr. J. P. GRANT contended that the soundest
principle to act upon, was, for the borrower and
the lender to settle their affairs 'between them in
the best manner they could.
Mr. CALCRAFT did not think that if the laws
were repealed the borrower of money "would- be'
better off than at present. There had been a
maximum for the price of bread, and be did not.
consider that the purchaser would acquire any
advantage by its being dor.e away. The .sritne
principle would hold good with respect to money.
He should certainly, if he remained of the opi-
nion he now was, divide the House upon the mo-
tion for the second reading. - -
Mr. RICARDO insisted that it was as much-in
the power of the borrower to keep down the
price of money as it was in the power= "of 'The
lender to raise it. He denied' that the -rati'df
interest' which money bore had"any amtloggfto
the price of bread, whiCh varied' with- the'-ptice
of corn. • From all he could, See in the niotrey
market he could not help thinking the Ustiry
Laws as. entirely inoperatiie. In the tir&cof
war he had seen men get eight, ten, and 'Alen
fifteen, per cent, for money, whereas in tirire.'of
peace they got only five.`' He .should..giveAis
ready assent to the motion.
Mr. BARING was most happy that' the- Itou.
and Learned Gentleman had brought forwa"rd the
motion, and he should give it his cordial supPiirt.
There-was no class of persons who had Suffered
more from the operation of the Usury Laws than
country gentlemen, who riot being able to- raise
money on Mortgage at five per cent. when• the
Government paid six, were obliged to resort-to
extortioners, who imposed upon thein. in every
respect.
Mr. Moues followed on the same side,and
dwelt on the injury of a fixed rate of interest
being sanctioned by the Legislature. It wasa,
well known fact, that since the maximum on the
price of bread had been done away the people
wereAnfinitely better supplied with bread than
before. The la 4 being once repealed the usurer
would become a respectable man instead of the
degraded being he now was.
The question was then put, and leave given to
bring in the Bill.

•
TIMBER DUTIES.
Mr. J. P. GRANT wished to ask the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman . who had introduced the'
Timber Duties, as the second reading could not
be brought on till a very late houri and as it-was
important that another opportunity should be af-
forded for discussing it, what course thelLight
Honourable Gentleman meant to take ?
Mr. WALLACE, in answer to the Hon. Gent's-
man, said, it was very proper that the subject
chonld be again discussed, and he therefore
posed that it should be read a. second time th4t
night and committed on Monday. Then,on his •
motion that the Speaker should leave the Chair,
the debate could be taken.•
Mr. T. P. GRANT thought the course pointed
out by the Hon. Gentleman would do very Well.
After what he had said, he (Mr. J. P. Grant)
would not oppose the seconitreadingi but Oil-the
motion for
.the House going into a Committee, •he• •
should have a proposition to submit, on which he
should tate tha sense of the House.
.-
CALLINOTON ELECTION..
Mr. SMYTHE brought up a Report from. t!
Committee appointed to inquire into the merits
of a petition complair;ing of an undue efectionlor
.the borough of Callington, stating that Mr.
belly -was unable to attend that Committee in
consequence of • indisposition.—The mediCal at-
tendant of Mr.Maberly, Mr: Whitfield, was then
examined at the bar, and stated that be had.seen
Mr. Moberly. that morning, who was unable to
leave his house from the effects'of the gont.—Oa
the motion of Mr. Sx-rrite, Mr:Moberly was ex-
cused from further attendance on the Committee.

. ADMIHION OF ATTORNIF.S.
• Mr- Sergeant OssLow moved for leave-to bring
in a Bill to regurate the admission of-Attornies
and-Solicitors. Hii object. was., that those who
had graduated in Universities should have an al-
lowance made thern in-the term of their appren-,
ticeship, and he ni.shed the measure should be