The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-04 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING. JUNE 4. 1844.

eertifi • . • 4. think
d really did
IPeadence could be placed on thee certificates.
o.4434L'illitcele not think tliev would he any better
than t against the sugar of Cuba or Brazil
tree
were at the time of the war between this
e,:tultry and France, when it was a notorious fact that
ne.saulggled our (roods into foreign countries, and
,they
41eirs Into ours, byr
means of forged certificates. hose
tast acquainted with ;he sugar trade did not seem to
Right
the sane confidence in those certificate.; as the
get Hun. Baronet—those gentlemen seemed to have
rY little less an • in 1841 in 18-11, when
, preaension - .;:.n
tue differetitial duty of twelve, instead of ten
as proposed by the Goveri.nient of that day; The
groat objection to any change of duty then 's-as, that the
ztrial—that of the abolition of slavery had not had
al—that it was necessary to ascertain whether
sfree labour eould supply the place of slave lab our. Had
tr 141101 prie,re•- been made in the experiment of free
SS
0;." Our in 1841, that they were not afraid of a
ic,:nige? The same differential duty thought sufficient
ii,uara, Manilla,. and the United Slate.,,, should be
to Cuba and the Brazils. He thought that apro-
-14 'tory duty
of 635., as it ought to have been abolished
841, ought to be a • b,disherl now ; and he would
tiZte his reasons. The supply of sugar from 1831 had
,b:en such, he believed, as to enable the people of
the ,ountry to consume it to anything like the extent
181 would under other circumstances have done. In
ti ul, 1832, and 1833, there was an average consump-
41Oltif from 191hs. to 201bs. of sugar per head on the
e,population, whilst in subsequent years the are-
htie lad become So low as 171b5., and even 161bs. per
(1.--
a-• This reason alone seemed very powerful in favour
14_ reduction of the duties. In 1843 there was little
B°3lT than 171bs. of sugar per head consumed, whilst in
(Rer
, with a smaller population, there were 191b5.-
4 , hear.) The consumption of tea had wonder-
Y increased since the commencement of the present
con,,t,nr,Y but sugar had not increased in proportion.
ot,"Tering the increase of population, the consumption
alArits and beer had rather diminished among the
141 eat eonsutnin, classes, whilst in tea and coffee the in-
crease had been very great. The consumption of coffee
er,4BCil wits 7,851,000tb5. ; in 1841, 27,298,3221b5. The
36'„sturiptlon of tea in 1801 was 20,227,0001b5.; in 1841,
3,43 In in sugar, the consumptrion, in 1831, was
fines
,0001bs. ; in 1841, 4,657,0001b5. There was three
the amount of coffee consumed in 1841, as corn-
•r`'o,_ed with 1831, whilst the increase in the consumption
Vougar had been so trifling. The increase in the popu-
ttu n during this period had been from 8 to 14. The
fPc'riment of Indian labour in the Mauritius had been
ed,and had been found successful ; and there had not
labour
the same objection to the introduction of such
Zuear as formerly. Lord AUckland, who was formerly op-
Viphd..to it, thought now that, under proper restrictions, it
be successful. The Noble Lord (the Secretary
the Colonies) had made some relaxations concerning
• fs,,rl„can labour and he did not think they could go much
",er in that'res ect. A reduction of the sugar duties
ttgat to be made Po
but it should be effected on the ordi-
-410.47 Principles by which trade was generally governed,
the they should not, merely for the sake of bolstering up
y of some of the members of the Cabinet,
departo4 from the long-established policy of commerce, not
tp„Y hi this, but in every other great commercial coun-
lai—(lear, hear.) His Hon. Friends behind him were
therour of placing all duties on sugar on a level with
seirNe On our own colonial sugar ; but he (Lord J. Bus-
se would not go quite so far. In a new state of things
to
ere no duty had been imposed, it might be safe
de
rho ; but, under existing circumstances, he
light a differential duty should be made in favour
elm
J• our own colonies. After some explanation as to the
be se why he had not given earlier notice of the motion,
ppctPes Was
ition abou
before thet to make,
House the No:—" That, ble Lord laid
in the following
dllstead of the
Prz,„°("v payable on brown and Muscavado sugar, the
thi ace 01. any foreign country be admitted at a duty of
liortY-four shillings per cwt." He believed the Right
thenti Gentleman sufficiently possessed the confidence of
het °use to enable him to carry almost any proposition ;
h' nevertheless, he should feel it his duty to take the
aul of the House upon his proposal. Free competition
iII ti.nl be the rule. Unrestricted competition
• alai's'', e, Lord Grenville stated, was the straight and
lijailhe line of wisdom. The Right Hon. Baronet had li
eeerself admitted the truth of this doctrine, and when-
-4,4..14 altered our policy, whether we advanced in a
th's or a wide step, it should be in this direction.
stiteY Wanted duties for revenue, why then they should
)8e thein; but as for legislating where to buy and to
khe public themselves were the best judges of that.
rattri"-cught that if they were to prescribe in what
ess,„'eta the people should trade, it would inevita'ily
t —P the industry' and impair the wealth of the coun-
That remark was not needless; for there had at
Pess4,,tithe been issued papers offering premiums from
eiesii,"llB usually supporting the Government, for the best
tal protection for the agricultural interest.—(The
eii„o Lord then read an extract from a speech delivered
'ae 17th of February, 1783, by Lord Shelburne, who
~at that time a Minister of the Crown. That Noble
ea: reprobated monopoly as being always injurious_
• to IZventing rivalry, which was the greatest stimulus
hat,-;,,cici and the most important instrument of human
reeti:elnent. No nation was more bound to oppose
twee'P°lY than this country, which stood as it were be-
ale: the old world and the new, and which having
tale' capital, more trade, and more resources, than any
Or ktation on earth, should meet its rivals on any part
aski„""e globe, content with fair competition, and
510 nothing more.) Such was the opinion of
cod mater of the Crown sixty years ago—(Cheers)—
thee:ye had not advanced much since.—(Renewed
alson'S.) They were creating a new monopoly of a
of tor kind, in which they declared to various nations
Lite" world, that they would not trade with them
mi% they disapproved of their institutions. It was but
eeet time since that the proposition of free trade was
tritived by but a few votes in America. If this coun-
koeii'e,re to set the example to other nations it would
taiued followed.—(Hear, hear.) But whilst we sus-
Prod,th-Le system of protective and prohibitory duties
the
excluded the corn and the timber and other
ttPo"cti of those nations, how could we lecture them
Polle„Ve advantages of an enlightened commercial
ead '----(Hear, hear.) He (Lord J. Russell) had lately
Affßi.k letter from the Secretary of State for Foreign
eye4rB to the Minister of a German State, which con-
tatsa lecture upon free trade which could have very
weight coming from the authority which main-
-114,74, destructive duties here.—(Hear, hear.) Let us
%k r: true principles for ourselves; and when other
4R should should see that England had taken a wise course
the e td benefited by it, they would not be slow to follow
ReelataPle. If so, we should see men in authorify in-
read.cf devising schemes for applying schemes to
diree`4l. war more destructive, employing their talents to
st.can; so as to make peace more beneficial, and
m one brotherhood all the nations of the world.
Lo il GLADSTONE would not imitate the Noble
feet'.lllld wander into topics unconnected with the sub-
tplea uetore the Committee. lie would not go into the
itisti°oll of iron, and word, and corn. He thought that
• dueeelliplain that the Noble Lord was induced to intro-
the e,tucise Subjects by the poverty of his objections to
Noble asUre of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The
kt re Lord would find that the letter of the Foreign
the a,,tal'Y to the Prussian Ministry was founded upon
liesite"ghruents contained in an article in the Edinburgh
t h which was supposed to have the approbation of
v,'"oltile Lord himself. It would be, indeed, a matter
In cas4v,e censure upon he Government if they adhered
giffere-,;itc,the measures which they thought, under very
Jetty -j:'cuseUrnstances, necessary in 1841. In the latter
anent 0 West Indies were going through an expert-
Leetit which rendered it imperative that the Govern-
15t1t nf,egculd take no step to embarras those colonies.
‘,Za% five years had passed since the experiment
were °lttli and although the difficulties of the colonies
00W „bil,",t altogether passed over, yet it had been
kger-timent that the permanent maintenance of the
ite the' Crlitilla on the present principle was not necessary
4to s 24.,P0rt. The Right Hon. Gentleman then went
htyori'etail of the different values of sugars (Muscovado,
IN in' arad. refined) in the West India Islands, in Cuba,
tigers ",,ava, contending that if the duty on all unrefined
Riven ".a,„B to be 34sper cent. an advantage would be
i'Oeds":,..k•;uba, which. prodnced and exported as unre-
ad i'etirs superior to real Muscovado. The Noble Lord
t,„° Iclght to taunt the Government with want of
iiB(;4l4a—bleYl,,,
.fer he had himself, in
.the period between
e. "li changed his own opinions on this ques-
„"itr
lad
price of sugar had in last year considerably.
""ve, the ante
that rise was a good reason for an alteration
sailill '1144 The rise had been nearly 3s. per cwt., and
've been greater if it had uot been for the pre-
- sialcialiUlon that the law would he altered this year.
,te Oft' thlerefore, into consideration the increasing de-
(Paee heetc°llhtry to consume those articles which hold
?vern weep luxuries and necessaries, he thought the
• te -41ent would have been wrong if they had not
rstiva.nt
hen "d
age of the increase of price to alter
.the law.
irieW kede Lord protested against the introduction of a
R 11441, 4'l of prohibitory and distinctive duties. But
hege•r, sai. Noble Lord,. in the case of the duties up.on
twee__ that it was necessary to make a distinction
had th',l these States which encouraged the slave trade
114 100hat° which had nothing to do with slavery. But
rt?inti ande 4, rd Was pleased to be witty on another
Sa`cli his Right lion. Friend was introduc-
pre lea reli : into the custom-house, erecting pulpits in
• 41,4erhers rr,llll, and making the land-waiters
Pelt -Le Lore antislavery doctrines. Perhaps the
intwunld say, that they should not introduce
tsilit,",,er-decks the ships of war, and erect pulpits upon
war the a\T--48,, or make their captains preachers ; but in
41Preach_ le Lord had made our captains of men-of-
3,,etty eife_rs of anti-slavery doctrines, and preachers to
si4rlea anict to the slavers in their passage between
thiUt was brazil. The policy of the present Govern-
' hl 4 tc"ntrvitfoconsonanee with that steadily pursued in
Q
461, 1.4,4 very long time past. It was impossi-
th,-an atraq7._ fixed rules to the varying character of
see stet,
„,.. The Noble Lord began by alluding to
redti,,,tltY that j,a,va, and objected that there could be no
hiss °d b, "ie produce of that island woual not be
thEtt slave labour. But he (Mr. Gladsione) be •
-wnnid"ere was a state of society in Java
Ile L whether enaltle him to ascertain witht
Isttsreved
th ten his
Produce was slave-grown or no..
• ifee, that his
was made out that labour in a
(4. „
.‘ W as
la as paid in proportion to the produce,
ikalatute .Curat the rate of a certain number of days
was, „he state
,S 0 far as regarded the occupation of
• -2`llpolle,
gs in Java was this, that no man
Bally.. it lie
was to now lands against his will; but if he
the the states b`Pind to cult' Such was univer-
ei.'elul he
e ot things in Java,l'ati'd. if a party cultivated
holea's free to quit it hen he pleased. He
bar erarod tinderetri: that ft wasl thew duty of those who
Peah„„seznales "e Government to have a certain num-
Jaya:vbsti,
tthat
th-41e,Itelielv land
; he ought, however, to, say
,
Heart slaver a.B a domestic species of slaveiy in
Stateho' ear.) so) was now upon the j-aoint of death..
ha see the dA far as regarded this country: lie
414*
,(1 beb,.. CUlties the Noble Lord bad,raised.
• tiith and _adverted to ; the trade bet weer that
koziv„,,,Wa! carried on not with merchants, but
r°3-1, acid they had therefore but

very little knowledge of the interior of the country; and
t was therefore impossible to say whether the
o,vth of sugar in that country was produced
by free labour or not ; but in Java, Manilla,
and China they had sugar the produce of free
labour. The Noble Lord then adverted to topics that
always raised a cheer in that House ; he said, wily not
seal the sugar of Brazil to Russia, and bring in ex-
change for it some of the produce of that country. A
great deal had been said about cotton, tobacco, and
coffee. Now, with respect to those articles, none of them
could be fairly said or considered to be the perpetuation
of the slave trade. The cultivation of coif e could be
carried on by free labour where sugar could not. If the
motion of the Noble Lord was adopted, the resellt would
be the extension of sugar cultivation, and also the ex-
tension of slavery. The effect of the present plan, he
believed, would be principally visible in the sugar of
Java and Manilla ; the plan would operate as a positive
premium on the extension of the cultivation of free
sugar in those countries. An encouragement would be
given to their sugar in the first place ; but, in the second
place, it would tell with permanent effect on the rise in
the value of free-labour sugar generally, on account of
its increased admissibility. With respect to the ex-
tent to which it might stimulate the cultivation
of sugar in the East Indies, he believed they knew too
little of the resources of that country to form any esti-
mate upon the point ; its immense productive powers
were as yet undeveloped. But, altogether, he did not
anticipate that the increased quantity of sugar that
would be brought into this country, in consequence of
this alteration, would exceed 20,000 tons, and this
quantity subtracted from the general markets of the
world would not, he thought, much tend to raise the
general price of the article. The Noble Lord had dwelt
upon the probable fraudulent introduction of sugar from
America ; but he thought there was not much danger of
this being the case. The American grower was not
subjected to any duty in his own country ; but, if he
sent his sugar to this country, he had to pay his duty.
Again, the price of sugar in New York had been for the
last few years about thirty-five shillings, and in this
iountry it had been less ; it would not, therefore, be the
interest of the American to send his sugar from New
Means to Liverpool, instead of from New Orleans to
New York. Again, there was no class in America that
slid not clamour for protection. In this country some
were indifferent to it, and some were opposed ; but
in America all were anxious for it. And this was
also a great political question. The bond of the Ame-
rican Union was not so close or so strong as not to be
affected by the result of this question on the slave
states. The great mass of the sugar consumed in Ame-
rica was grown in the state of Louisiana, and he thought
that nothing was so improbable as that America, while
secognising the high protective principle, would allow
this single state to become the victim, for the sake of
introducing the principle of free trade in the single ar-
tide of sugar. The Noble Lord had said that the Go-
vernment should have given greater encouragement to the
introduction of free labour in the West Indies ; he did not
understand that the Noble Lord had charged the
Government with any neglect or want of vigilance as
to the introduction of such labour. He conceded that
the West Indies were suffering under an accumulation of
disadvantages, and that,, for the most part, the planters
had been losers. He knew estates that, in the year 1840,
when Englund was paying what might be called famine
prices for their sugar, left their owners minus to a con-
siderable amount. lie did not deny that the position
of the West Indies was one of very great difficulty
Ile could only say that the question should be considered
with a view to the interest of the West Indies on the
one hand, and the circumstances of this country on the
other. He would say that it was not in the power of the
Legislature of this country to bring the cultivation of
the colony into a sound state, even if the duty on sugar
was maintained for twenty years.—(Cheers.) It must
be brought about by the introduction of new labourers,
an altered system of maintaining them, and the substi-
tution of responsible resident proprietors or tenants for
absentee proprietors.—(Hear, hear.) That the West
Indies had a crisis to pass through he had no doubt, and
all they could expect from the British Legislature was
to aid them as much as they could. That aid they now
proposed to lend them. They proposed to lay a tax of
ios. 6d. per cwt. on foreign free-grown sugar, excluding
sugar from slave countries. That was a duty of 60 per
cent. on the value of the commodity. But if they had
to deal with the West ladies alone, he would not be a
party to the proposal of his Right Hon. Friend. After
the changes which took place in other countries—after
the tariff of 1842, and the other changes which have
taken place in the present year, he thought
Government would be open to the imputation
of showing undue favour to a particular class
were they to put a duty of 10 per cent. on foreign
sugar, the growth of free labour, as a protection to sugar
grown in the West Indies.—(Hear, hear.) The West
Indies had suffered most severely by the Act of Emanci-
pation, but that interest was treated with some conside-
ration when it got a protection equal to 50 per cent. The
Noble Lord said that they did not establish perfect con-
sistency in their legislation on this matter. His answer
was that it was better to apply a good principle when it
was practicable, and also that the proposition of the Go-
vernment would stand in a favourable light as contrasted
with the proposition of the Noble Lord. It was not
only inconsistent in an extreme degree, but in a manner
incapable of tolerable explanation, that they should go
to considerable expense in employing a naval force on
the coast of Africa, but even shed blood for the purpose
of capturing slave vessels going to the Brazils, and at
the same time give a voluntary stimulous to the slave
trade by encouraging the growth of slave-grown sugar.
There was, therefore, a great practical difference be-
tween the measure of the Government and the proposi-
tion of the Noble Lord, as would be tested to• morrow
by the price of Brazilian or Cuba sugar, if that proposi-
tion were carried. The Noble Lord had charged them
with hypocrisy. That was one of the worst charges
that could be made against any men, because
it was one of the worst vices.—(Hear, hear.) He
would not deny it, because if true it would not be the
less if he denied it, and if it were not he was sure the
country and posterity would do them justice. They
could have no personal motives in this matter, and
their views were in accordance with those of Dr.
Lushington, Sir F. Buxton, Mr. Clarkson, and Mr.
Sturge, whose opinions were entitled to so much con-
sideration on the subject. It was true they would ex-
clude the produce of slave labour of every description;
but, because they admitted other articles, the produce of
lave labour, it was practically no reason why they
should admit slave-grown sugar. Looking to the in-
terest of the West India colonies, the necessities of the
country, and the discouragement of the slave trade, he
thought the measure of the Government the best that
could be devised, and he loft it with confidence to the
udgment of the House of Commons.—(Cheers.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE commenced by defending himself
and the late Government from the charge of inconsistency
which was brought against them, for which he need
only refer to the emphatic declaration of the late
Lord Sydenham, who, when President of the Board of
Trade, declared that either at or before the termination
of the treaty with the Brazils, it would be the duty of
the House to consider the question of the sugar duties,
foreign and domestic. He (Mr. Labouchere) adhered
to that declaration, when he was waited on in Liver-
pool by persons connected with the West Indies. And
ith regard to the consistency of the present Govern-
ment, he must say, if ho felt any resentment towards
them for the handle they made of the West India interest
to turn out the late Administration, he was amply re-
venged by seeing the Ministers of this great commercial
country in the face of that country and the whole world
compelled to make such a proposition to the House as
they now made, and to defend it by such: argu-
ments as he had heard.--(Hear, hear.) That it
was a novel and unprecedented proposition no person
could deny, and the arguments used in support of the
measure were in perfect harmony with it, for they were
totally novel and unprecedented likewise. The question
was one of such vast importance in every respect that a
settlement of it was of first-rate consequence. And it
was because this measure was fraught with uncertainty
and was rotten in principle, because it was not a final
settlement of the question, that he objected to it.
He would suppose, for the sake of argument, that no
door would be opened to fraud by the measure ; but
admitting that, he was prepared to maintain that they
incurred a positive and a certain evil for the sake of a
benefit of a very substantial nature. To begin with the
evils which would be inflicted by this measure, the Go-
vernment might say that they were right in doing those
things for a moral object ; but no man would contend
that it was right to denounce, by their commercial
policy, such great countries as the Brazils—the West
India Islands, which were some of their.most valuable
customers.—(Hear, hear.) No person would say that
they ought to hazard such evils except on the most sub-
stantial and positive grounds.—(Hear, hear.) In the
first place it was impossible to deny what the evil com-
plained of by their merchants who traded with the
13razils was. It was this, that they could not procure
direct returns for the goods which they exported to
Brazils.—(Hear, hear.) To continue such a state of
things was, a great evil ; but it was more—they raised
up hostile feelings in those countries against them, which
must be fraught with fatal consequences. It would lead
to hostile commercial legislation against them. True, if
these countries consulted reason only they would not
legislate on such absurd grounds ; but men were actuated
by resentment as much as by reason, and they would
feel that an affront was put upon them by this country,
and their legislation would be directed accordingly.
Nay more, he really believed that this principle of non-
interference with these countries would arm the feelings
of those countries lagainst:ithem every' day more anti
more, to prevent the effects of that influence which he
hoped this.country would exercise everywhere in behalf
of the negroes, which would be a source of greater
calamity to them than this paltry measure of excluding
slave-grown sugar would do them any good. He agreed
with the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down,
that they must guard themselves against overrating the
value of the change of duty, for that no great influx of
foreign sugar could be expected. His statement was as
low as 20.000 tons. Everything of this sort was no
doubt vague ; and he (Mr. Labouchere) would be inclined
to put it higher. But it was important when they came to
consider this question, to find how far the measure of the
Government would tend to discourage sugar the produce
of slave labour. In his opinion that discouragement would
amount to a shade, or rather the shadow of a shade.
The Right Hon. Gentleman admitted that the free-
labour sugar produced in the East was less than 20,000
tons. If that came to England, the surplus would be
sxported to Germany and other countries, and the price
of free-labour sugar in London and Liverpool would be
governed by its price in those countries. The Right
Hon. Gentleman admitted that this was true in the
main ; but then he said there would still be a shade of
advantage in favour of free-labour sugar. Was it really
for a shade of advantage that they were prepared to
incur so many evils ?—(Hear, hear.) He thought even
a shade was too strong an expression. He believed that
a ton of Manilla sugar and a ton of Cuba sugar would,
after this Bill had passed, be found very nearly of the
same value. The consequence would be, that the moment

this sugar was withdrawn from the general markets of
the world, the vacuum would be filled up by sugar from
Cuba and Brazil. Taking the whole, or very nearly the
whole, of the sugar produced by free labour throughout
the world, he admitted that there might be some weight
in the argument ; but, inasmuch as they could only
take a part of it, and the rest must be
exported abroad, it was idle to deny that by their mea
sure the Government were encouraging the cultivation
of sugar in Cuba and Brazil as completely as they would
do by admitting sugar from those countries. The Right
lion. Gentleman went on to use a very singular argu-
ment when he said that, at all events, their consciences
would be clear.—(hear, hear.) If they went into a
grocer's shop and inquired the price of sugar grown in
Cuba and sugar grown in Manilla, that might be a very
good consideration ; but before they asked the people
of this country to subject themselves to the evils of
non•intercourse, they were bound to show them that
some practical discouragement o ould thereby be given
to the slave trade.—(Hear, hear.) Ile had hitherto dis•
cussed this question as if it would not open a door' to
fraud. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, had disposed of that question in a very
summary. way. He was surprised that any one could
express a doubt that fraud would not take place. Now
he (Mr. Labouchere) did not share in that persua-
sion, and he believed it was not shared by the mercantile
community of this country.—(Hear, hear, from the Hon.
Member for Dover.) His Hon. Friend the Member for
Dover, who was connected with the West Indies,
cheered that observation. He was glad to find
his opinion confirmed by so high an authority.
Even the certificates of our own Custom louse
officers were not to be depended on with entire
confidence ; but to talk of certificates of sugar
coming from New Orleans, signed by the grower, the
shipper, and the American authorities, as properly cer-
tified, was to him utterly incomprehensible.' He be-
lieved that the value of a Mississippi certificate would be
very much the same as the value of a Mississippi bond.—
( Laughter.) He was inclined to think that the air would be
found equally prejudicial to the honesty of both those
documents.—(Laughter.) Ho defied the shrewdest mer-
chant to tell what would be the precise effect of this
measure. He felt convinced at least of this, that,
founded as it was upon false and untenable principles, it
would produce nothing but mischief to our commercial
interests.—(Hear,) He agreed with the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman that the character of this country should stand
clear upon this subject of the slave trade, He had
never been disposed to sneer at, or to treat with disre-
spect, the solemn and sacred feelings which pervaded
this country on the subject of the long injuries of the
negro race.—(Hear, hear.) He was satisfied that the
conduct of this country in that respect was one of the
brightest pages in her history. She might have made
mistakes; she might have suffered disappointments;
but, nevertheless, her conduct had been actuated by that
which lay at the root of England's greatness—her moral
and religious feelings.—(Cheers.) But the more he re-
flected on that subject, the more he felt the importance of
exhibiting this country to the world, not only unconnected
with hypocrisy, but with folly; and he very much feared
that foreigners would form the same opinion of us which
our own merchants did in reference to this question.—
(Hear, hear.) He believed they would not stand any
higher in the eyes of the world, for having embarked
in a course which every man, woman, and child, who
considered the subject would be able at once to see did
not accomplish its own objects.—(Hear, hear.) He
would not go at any length into the question, what
might be expected from the United States ; but he
agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman, in doubting
whether the inducement to supply the English market
with sugar under the scale of duties proposed by the
Government would greatly affect or modify their policy.
—The Right Hon. Gentlethan then read an extract from
letter addressed by Mr. Innes to the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, in support of this view.—The Right Hon.
Gentleman had adverted to the effect of this measure
upon the West Indies. He (Mr. Labouchere) had never
thought that they were absolved from their duty to the
West Indies by the payment of twenty millions for the
emancipation of the slaves. He could not vote for the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Bristol, because he
believed it would have the effect of imposing a larger
differential duty on the people of this country ; but, if
the Government had proposed to reduce the duty
on foreign sugar to thirty shillings, and that on
colonial sugar to 225., he, for one, should have rejoiced
at such a proposal, and he believed the Noble Lord the
Member for the City of London would have given it his
support. He really thought that in the present position
of the revenue the Government might safely have made
such a proposal. He must say, in conclusion, that not-
withstanding the opposition made to the proposals of the
late Government, he did hope that when the Right Hon.
Gentleman had, as a Minister of the Crown, to consider
this question in all its details, he would not have pur-
sued a course, the benefits of which were, according to
his own showing, of a doubtful and visionary cha-
racter. He had -hoped that he would have cast po-
litical consistency to the winds, and that he (Mr.
Labouchere) would have had the pleasure of supporting
him in those great commercial reforms which were
needed by the country.
Mr. P. M. STEWART said he had hoped that when
the question of emancipation had been settled they
would have been fairly dealt with. There seemed to be
much uncertainty and ignorance on the part of the Go-
vernment with respect to this measure. The Right Hon.
Gentleman, the President of the Board of Trade, had
put a question to him (Mr. Stewart). whether if the
West Indies were to be supplied fully with free labourers,
he would propose that the Government should maintain
a differential duty of even 10s. per cwt. His answer to
this was, that they had been kept out of a supply of
free labour for ten years, and now, at the eleventh hour,
a measure like this was proposed. Was this fair treat-
ment ? They crippled a man, and reduced him to a
state of starvation, and then threw him into an arena
of competition. He said that if they had prepared the
West Indies five years ago for this change, and if they had
then given them the supply of labour which was now
contemplated, that would have of itself settled the ques-
tion of differential duties. The Right Hon. Gentleman,
the President of the Board of Trade, was mistaken in his
estimates of the produce of sugar under free labour and
slave labour in the West Indies. The average of the
five years preceding 1883 was 201,777 tons, and the
average of the three years after free labour was entirely
established was only 107,000 tons. To show the depre-
ciation in the value of West India property he had pro-
vided himself with a comparative statement of the cost
and produce of an estate ten years ago, and at the pre-
sent time. Ten years ago the average cost of the pre-
duce on the estate was 5,4051., the crops were 367 tons,
the cost of production being fourteen guineas per ton.
This year the average expenditure was 6,500/., the
crops 264 tons, the cost of production being 24/. 12s. per
ton. This difference had arisen from the payment of
high wages, and from a reduced and inadequate supply
of labour.—(Hear, hear.) These were the grounds
upon which the West Indian colonists rested their
opposition to this measure. When slavery was
abolished, this country promised the colonists of the
West Indies a supply of labour, but that supply never
came. Now, however, when the Government disco-
vered their error, simultaneously with the supply of
labour, did they throw open the West Indies to com-
petition with the rest of the world ? It was unfair—un-
English—to treat them in this manner. Had there been
an interval of two or three years afforded, and during
that time a supply of free labour provided,. the present
measure would have been received very differently by
the West India proprietors. Under existing circum-
stances, he contended that a great hardship had been
thrown upon the colonists. It was said that the West
Indies were an integral part of Britain; why, then, were
the colonists not treated as British subjects ? The
West Indian planter was, to all intents and purposes, a
landed proprietor, and why should he not be treated as
one ? His produce, however, was debarred from com-
ing into this country. They were well aware
that rum was almost excluded from Scotland,
and Ireland. The duty on native spirits was 2s. Bd. per
gallon in Ireland, and in Scotland it was 3s. Bd., while
the duty on rum Ras 9s. 4d. In England the duty on
the native spirit was 7s. 10d. per gallon, and rum was
9s. 4d., and the consequence was, that the consumption
of rum in England was one-third of the whole consump-
tion of spirits, one hundred-and-twelfth of the whole
consumption in Scotland, and in Ireland it was only a
six-hundreth part of the whole consumption of spirits in
the country, so that, in fact, rum was excluded. He
thought the proposition of the Noble Lord on the whole
a salutary one, and was of opinion that it was preferable
to admit sugar directly from foreign countries than in
the roundabout way in which its growth was at present
encouraged.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HUME agreed with the Hon. Gentleman who
had just sat down that the best interests of the colonies
had been sacrificed by the policy of the Govern-
ment. This Government, as well as the former one,
was much to blame for not providing a proper supply
of labour. The question had been laid before Lord
Glenelg, but he had taken no effective step. The Right
Hon. Baronet had taken up the question, but in a manner
unstatesmanlike and impolitic. lie felt certain that the
Government measure would not give satisfaction ;
there was no security in it, and this meddling sort of
policy, which proposed a great deal and did nothing,
would take away confidence and prevent the investment
of capital in the West Indies.—(Cries of " Hear,'
hear.") The consumption of tea and coffee had greatly
increased since the commencement of the present
century, but sugar had not at all increased in proportion.
Those specious arguments in favour of the abolition of
slavery were now seen through by the country, and
there was a general and a just feeling abroad that we
bad no right to dragoon other countries into our mode
of action. They should be left to think and act for
themselves on the question of slavery, as well as on
every other question. What would we have said
twenty five years ago, if any other country attempted
to force upon us anti-slavery doctrines? Why, we
should have indignantly rejected them. And as for the
idea of excluding slave-grown sugar by certificates of
origin, it was nothing more or less than a perfect farce.
—(Hear, hear.) The fact was, we were sacrificing the
most important parts of our trade to this anti-slavery
mania. Might we not as well import our sugar directly
from Cuba and Brazil, as -trade with those countries
which directly encouraged its growth ?—(Hear.)
Mr. T. BARING did not quite agree in the justice cf
the arguments advanced by Hon. Gentlemen opposite.
He thought it would not be so difficult as had been an-
ticipated to prevent the importation of slave-grown
sugar into this country by the certificates of origin; nor
did he think that there need be any apprehension of our
importing slave-grown sugar from Java or Manilla, be-
cause the distance between these countries and Cuba and
Brazil was too great to admit of their importing sugar
from them with the prospect of exporting it into
this country afterwards. China was not, as had
been stated, an exporter of sugar. He believed
it was at present an importer.— (Hear, hear.)
He had never heard that there was any arrangement by
which such an evasion of the American Customs' regu-
lations could be effected as the Noble Lord, the Member
for London, supposed. He did net think that if Ha-

vannah sugar were imported into Louisiana, and had
paid a duty of 125., that amount would be returned, and
the sugar be allowed to be exported. The countries
which produced sugar by free labour would have the
great stimulus to production which was well known to
be given by open markets, whereas the slave countries
would be confined to the markets to which they now
had access. In Brazil one-half, or two-thirds of the
population were slaves, who were paid no wages, and
had few wants above the demand for the merest neces-
saries of life. If the trade of this country with Brazil
should be increased, the goods which the Brazilians
would receive in return for their produce would consist
chiefly of such articles as could be used in the purehase
of mare slaves for the extended cultivation of the land ;
whereas the goods received 'from us in exchange for
the produce of free labour, would be purchased by the
labourers out of their wages, and for the increase of
their own comforts. He should, however, have thought
it more advisable if this proposition of the Government
had been deferred until the whole subject of the sugar
duties had been reviewed, and the question had been
decided whether our system of direct taxation should be
continued and extended. The Hon. Gentleman con-
cluded by stating that he never gave a more conscien-
tious vote than that which he was now about to give
against the proposal of the Noble Lord, the Member for
the city of London.

After some observations from Dr. Bov‘ring, Sir John
Hanmer, and Mr. Gladstone,
Mr. EWART rose amid loud cries of " Withdraw,"
and " Divide."—Seeing the feeling of the House he
would postpone the motion of which he had given notice
till the bringing up of the report.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw ; the House
divided, and the numbers were—
For the resolutions 197
For the amendment l2B
Majority for the resolutions
The resolutions were then put and agreed to, and the
House having resumed, the report was ordered to be
brought up un 'Wednesday.

ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL.
The Ecclesiastical Courts Bill was postponed till Friday
next.

THE POOR-LAW (IRELAND).
Sir J. GRAHAM moved for the following Select
Committee on union workhouses (Ireland) :—Sir Edwd.
Knatchbull, 'Mr. Loch, Lord Eliot, Mr. Ord, Sir Robert
Ferguson, Mr. Vesey, Sir Henry Winston Barron, Mr.
Shaw, Lord Courtenay, Mr. French, Mr. Bellew, Mr
More O'Ferrall, Lord Claud Hamilton, Captain Jones,
and Mr. Bramston.

In answer to a question from Sir It. FERGUSON,

Sir J. GRAHAM said the object of the Committee
was to inquire into the report of Mr. Pennthorn, in-
cluding some statements of Mr. Nicholls, respecting the
building of poor-houses.
Lord JOHN. RUSSELL wished to know from his
Hon. Friend (Sir R. Ferguson) who was a member of
the Landlord and Tenant Commission, whether it was
probable that that Commission would present their Re-
port in the present session ?
Sir R. FERGUSON thought it was 'unlikely that it
would be.

The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. S. O'BIIIEN obtained leave to bring in a Bill for
the appointing of chaplains to lunatic asylums, county
infirmaries, and fever hospitals in Ireland.
The Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read
Is second time that day fortnight.
The House then adjourned at a Quarter to Twelve
o'Clock.

DR. WOLFF'S MISSION TO
BOKRARA.

The following extract from a letter addressed by
Colonel Williams, R.A., her Majesty's Commissioner,
to Captain Grover, contains the latest intelligence of the
Rev. Dr. Wolff ; it is dated Erzeroom, April 20, 1844 :
" The Tattar, from Teheran, has just brought me news
to the 29th ult. The Governor of Meshed had sent Dr.
Wolff on to Bokhara under an escort of 270 horse
('Turkomans), we therefore need not bo apprehensive
for his personal safety?'
The friends of the Rev. Gentleman and of the captives
will be gratified to see that the Earl of Aberdeen's kind
exertions have removed all difficulties.

LLOYD'S SHIPPING.
NOTICE TO MARINERS.
Admiralty, June 1, 1844.
Sir,—l am commanded by my Lords Commissioners
of the Admiralty to transmit to you herewith, for the
information of the Committee for managing the affairs
of Lloyd's, a copy of a dispatch from her Majesty's
Consul at Elsinore, reporting an alteration in the day-
mark of the light ship at Dracf,ol.
I am, Sir, your most obedient servant,
(Signed) JOHN BARROW.
To Wm. Dobson, Esq., Lloyd's.
(copy.)
"Elsinore, April 9, 1844.
"My Lord,—l have the honour to inform your Lord-
ship that, according to a notice from the General Board
of Trade and Customs at Copenhagen, dated the 16th
inst., the light-ship at Dragol will, instead of the red
flag hitherto shown, be provided with a day-taark simi-
lar to that which, as reported in my dispatch No. 5, is
destined for the light-ship on the " Knohen"—viz., a
large ball, 4f feet in diameter, formed of twisted iron
bars, and painted red, which is to be constantly hoisted
at her fore top, at an elevation of 56 feet above the level
of the sea.—l have, &c.
(Signed) " HENRY GEO. KUPER.
" The Right Hon. the Earl of Aberdeen, &c. &c."