The Sun.
London, England, 1844-05-11 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 10
Their Lordships met at Four o'Clock.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
The LORD CHANCELLOR announced that a Com-
mission had been issued to give the Royal Assent to cer-
tain Bills, and directed the Commons to be summoned to
their Lordships' bar by the Usher of the Black Rod.
The Cominissioners wore, the Lord Chancellor, the
Duke of Buecleuch, and the Earl of Shaftesbury.
The Commissioners, having taken their seats at the
foot of the throne, the Speaker, accompanied by several
Members of the Houe of Commons, appeared at the
bar, when the Royal Assent was given by Commission,
in the usual form, to the under-mentioned Bills :
The Exchequer Bills Bill, the National Copyright Bill,
the Dean Forest Inclosure Bill, the Great Western and
Cheltenham Railway Bill, the Norwich and Brandon
Railway Bill, the South-Western and Guildford Railway
Bill, the Midland Counties Railway Bill, the Manchester
and• Leeds Railway Bill, the Norwich and Yarmouth
Railway Bill, the Manchester and Birmingham Railway
Bill, and the Derby Junction Railway Bill.
Their Lordships then adjourned during pleasure.
Their Lordships resumed at Five o'Clock.
CONFERENCE.

LANCASTER AND CARLISLE RAILWAY.
A Conference with the Commons took place respecting
awe amendments which had been proposed in the Lan-
caster and Carlisle Railway Bill.
The Duke of RICHMOND reported to the House that
the Commons agreed to a portion of the amendments.
Messengers from the Commons brought up several
Bills, which were read a first time.
Several petitions were presented in favour of the York
and Scarborough Railway Bill.
The Courts of Common-law Process (Treland) Bill,
and the Bail in Error Bill went through Committee.
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL presented petitions
from Doaegal, Coleraine, and several other places against
tho Dirsonters' Chapels Bill.
DUTY ON WOOL.

The Duke of RICHMOND, after presenting a peti-
tion from a place in Sutherland, in favour of agricultural
protection, said be wished to call the attention of their
Lordships, in consequence of a notice which he had pre-
viously given, of a motion to order certain returns upon
the subject of the wool trade in this country. He was
the more anxious for the production of these
returns in consequence of the proposed re-
duction of the duty upon this article, and be-
cause he recollected that the facts adduced before
the Committee, appointed in 1828 at his suggestion, am-
ply proved that the reduction of these duties would tend
materially to injure the farming interests of the country.
He disliked this measure much, not because it met the
support of his Noble Friend, who presided at the
Anti-Corn-law League, but because when this re-
duction was mentioned in another place it was
loudly cheered there. Another reason was, that,
at the present moment the greatest distress pre-
vailed alrthrough Australia, and they all were aware
that by taking off one penny from German wool,
they would do much to injure that colony. He
would ask the Noble Lord, the Vice-President of the
Board of Trade, whether her Majesty's Ministers had had
any communication with foreign Governments on this
subject—whether the Austrian Government were con-
tent to allow the manufactures of this country to
enter Austria with equal facilities—or, if that Govern-
ment would take English long wool as well as short wool?
He would also ask whether they had received any
assurances of reciprocity on the part of the
French Government, -so far as trade was concerned ?
He only hoped that the same result would not now take
place as when the sixpenny duty was reduced to a half-
penny. The United States immediately put on a higher
duty upon our woollen cloths.—(Hear, hear.) He con-
cluded by moving for several returns relating to the im-
portation of foreign wool.
Lord DALHOUSIE had no objection to the motion
Of his Noble Friend, accompanied as it was with an
undertaking to abstain for the present from going into a
discussion of the substantial question. At the same
time, he would not object to the returns, because
he also was desirous of more exact information on the
subject. However, he was not prepared to answer the
question of his Noble Friend as to whether her Majesty's
Government had communications with Foreign Powers
in reference to the reduction of their duties on our
woollen goods. He had not received any information
on the subject, but he was able to say that whether
foreign nations would or would not reduce the duties
on our woollens, that would not affect the question.
His Noble Friend had alluded to the Committee of In-
quiry in 1828, on the effect of a reduction of the wool
duty, in 1824. But his Noble Friend did not inform
the House that it was clearly made out before that
Co-mittee that the depression of the wool masters was
not traced and was not traceable to the reduction of the
duty.—(Hear, hear.) As his Noble Friend was not
going into the question at present, but only wanted the
papers for information, he (Lord Dalhousie) would
also abstain from going into it. But it was right that
he should acquaint their Lordships with the fact, that
the depression of the wool masters was clearly traced to
e the high duty imposed in 1819, which caused our woollen
=to be thrown out of competition in the foreign mar-
ill necessarily to lessen the demand for home-grown
wool. He bad lately had a communication with Mr.
Bishop, a gentleman who was well known in connexion
with this subject, and from whom he learned that when
the duty was raised in 1819 he knew a nobleman who
was a large grower of wool, that nobleman told Mr.
Bishop that he would not sell his wool at 2s. 6d. a lb.,
but would keep it till the next year, when he would get
3s. Mr. Bishop however told him that if he kept it
for one year the price, instead of being raised by the
duty, would be lowered, and instead of 2s. 6d. he
would get no more than Is. 6d., and if he kept it for
two years he would get no more than one shilling.—
(A. laugh.) The nobleman had kept the wool for three
years as the prices were going clown, and at last he sold
his wool for 9d. a lb.—(Laughter, and cheers.) The
high tax remained for nearly six years, and in con-
sequence the export trade in woollens was reduced to
one-half.—(llcar, hear.) The duty certainly was reduced
afterwards, in 1824, but it did not follow that by re-
moving the cause you redressed the injury. However,
since the duty was lowered, the importation of foreign
wool had increased from 14 millions to 40 millions, and
the. Price of South down wool was at this moment a half-
penny per lb. higher than it was in the last year,
~.whon the high duty was imposed.—(Hear, hear.)
This was a proof that the importation of foreign
wool instead of lowering the price of home
grown wool was the means of raising it, by in-
- creasing the foreign demand for our woollen goods.
He would not now go into the question, but he could
not sit down without saying that our trade had never
recovered the shock which it had received by the in-
crease
of the duty in 1819. He had no objection to the
resolution moved for, by his Noble Friend, and when-
ever his Noble Friend was prepared to bring on a dis-
cussion, he (Lord Dalhousie) would be perfectly ready
toinitify the commercial policy of the Government.
-Lord BROUGHAM said that as his Noble Friend
upon- the cross-benches (the Duke of Richmond) would
have to answer his Noble Friend, the Vice-President of
the-Boird of Trade, it might save him trmible to hear
his (Lord Brougham's) statement, so as to be able to
answer both at once. The Noble and Learned Lord
then read an extract from a publication of Mr. Bishop's,
to - show that the effect of the increased duty,
in 1819 had been to injure the woolmasters.
The average exports of wool in the three years previous
to 1817 were 7,630,0001b5. weight, and the average of
the five years following the imposition of the duty was
only 6,000,000. The price of the wool diminished in a
greater ratio. The average price of Kent long-wool for
the two years before the imposition of the duty sas
2s. Id. per pound, while in the two years following the
imposition of the duty the price fell to is. 3d. The
average price of Highland wool before the dirty was im-
posed was 30s. the double stone, and in the five years
following the imposition of the duty, the price fell to
15s. the double stone, being just one-half.
Lord BEAUMONT did not look upon the duty on
wool in the same light as upon other protective duties
upon agricultural produce. lie thought the proposition
of the Government would prove very beneficial both to
the farmers and to the manufacturers of the country.
He most heartily approved of this measure, but in say-
ing this much, he begged also to state, that he did not
at all abandon those principles of agricultural protection
which he always advocated.
Earl KINNAIRD said he felt conscious that what
annoyed the Noble Duke most, was, that this was one of
the first steps towards free trade. He (Lord Kinnaird)
had been informed that, at the commencement of this
session, certain gentlemen of the party to which the
Noble Duke belonged, waited upon the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government, and
stipulated that neither the corn-laws nor the Irish
Church were to be touched, but the Right
Honourable Baronet, with his usual caution, would
not give a definite pledge upon those subjects.
He (Earl Kinnaird) denied that the reduction of these
duties Would tend to improve the farnsieg interests, for
they had proof that when the iniport of any article was
large the price of it rose. The Noble Duke seemed to
be
_eery much afraid of Austria, but if they took a large
quantity of wool from that country, they also exported
- a large quantity of manufactured goods to it. He (Earl
Kinnaird)
also denied that the tariff had produced that
injurious effect which some persons had prophesied.
The Duke of RICHMOND, in explanation, said he
thought that no one, outside theCovent-Garden
Theatre, would believe the assertionswallsofw which had been
made to his Noble Friend who had uist sat down. He
certainly saw no reasons to change opinionr by any-
thing which had fallen from theo‘des
After a few words from Lord BROUGIBAM and the
I,Ukt RICIIMOND,
Lord DALHOUSIE said the only source that he had
from which to make up the returns sought by the Noble
Duke, was from the wool-brokers, as he bad no means
. of airing official information.
Lord MONTEAGLE thought the Government could
not have selected a fitter article upon which to reduce
the duty than wool.
lie denied that the agricultural in-
terest would suffer by it. It was no new measure, be-
cause 'Many years ago the Government had pledged
-themselves to reduce this duty. He was confident that
all artificial measures of protection tended to the injury
of both the agricultural and commercial interests.
• The returns were then ordered.
• PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND).
Lord CLONCURRY rose to move for the appoint-
ment of a Select Committee on the subject of public
works; and proposed territorial improvements in Ire-
/and, founded on reports presented to Parliament, and
the Government, particularly on the subjects of railroads
• and drainage, with a view to the mare effectual deve-
lepment of the resources of that country by a well-
considered and economical application
ral
schemes had been suggestedoi for the purpose of im-
preying the condition Ireland. An extensive system :
of drainage bad been recommended by a Commission,
which was entitled the Bog Commission. Others had

recommended that several harbours of refuge should be
constructed in Ireland, by which means extensive em-
ployment would be given to the people. At the time
of the Union the sum of 500,000/. was placed in the
bands of a Committee, for the purpose of promoting inland
navigation. Two canals were constructed with this mo-
ney, one of which became insolvent shortly after its
construction, and in the other the value of the stock fell
from 110 to 5. The Commissioners of Public Works
in Ireland had at present no money in hand to carry
on the projects of improvement which had been set on
foot. The harbour of Kingstown, which was a very va-
luable one, was commenced thirty years ago, and it was
not yet finished. The cost of this valuable work
was 700,000/, and at present the Commissioners
for carrying it on had but about 8,0001 in their
hands. Endeavours had been made to improve the na-
vigation of the Shannon, but that river was found to be
very difficult of improvement. All the pr ejects which
he had mentioned had beea set on foot f the purpose
of employing the labouring people of Ireland, and yet at
the present day there were more beggars in that coun-
try than there ever were ; and he thought that some
steps ougbt to be taken to ascertain the cause of this,
and if possible to remedy the evil. All that the people
of Ireland wanted was employment. He believed that
the want of employment arose in a great measure from
absenteeism. There were ample means in Ireland of
giving the people employment. That employment could
be found by an extensive system of drainage of the bogs,
which would amply repay the outlay and the labour.
He had known land which had originally sold at a penny
an acre realise a pound sterling per year. He trusted
their Lordships would agree to this motion.
The Duke of WELLINGTON, in opposing the mo-
tion, reminded :their Lordships that the Commission,
which was at present sitting, at whose head was his
Noble Friend (the Earl of Devon), had taken this very
subject into their consideration. The Noble Lord evi-
dently wished that a sum of money should be granted
for the purpose of improving the soil of Ireland. But
their Lordships would remember that to do this would
require between five and ten millions sterling. Already
as much as 906,0001 had been advanced for the improve-
ment of Ireland, and for the year as much as 6,0001
had been voted for this purpose. He would remind the
Noble Lord opposite that very extensive works were
going on at present in Ireland. There was a railway
in course of construction from Dublin to Cashel, and
one from Cashel to Cork. Two years ago a Bill passed
Parliament providing for the proper drainage of Ireland,
and the Commission appointed under that Bill was still
in existence. Money had been granted, and was still
being granted, for this purpose, and he thought this was
proof that Parliament was not inattentive to the wants
of Ireland. Under these circumstances he did not think
it would be well to agree to the motion of the Noble
Lord.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE was glad to hear
that a sum of money had been voted for the improve-
ment of Ireland. Ile was, however, surprised to hear
that the Landlord and Tenant Commission had been
appointed to inquire into th&means of improving Ire-
land. He had never heard this before. With respect to
the means of improving that country, he knew that there
were works which might be commenced in Ireland, the
construction of which would not cost the public a single
shilling, inasmuch as the works, when completed, would
return at least six per cent. on the capital expended.
The Earl of DEVON said, that although he could not
support the motion, yet he was not sorry that the subject
had been brought forward,. for he thought it was
one that could not be too often brought under their con-
sideration. Ho admitted that employment was greatly
needed [by the people of Ireland, but he did not think
that such a Committee as that which had been moved
for could remedy the evil complained of. He thought it
would be better for their Lordships to wait until the
report of the Landlord and Tenant Commission was be-
fore Parliament, as he had no doubt that many sugges-
tions would appear therein, which their Lordships would
think worthy of being acted upon.
The Marquis of NORMANBY rose to suggest that
as there had been some misunderstandingwith respect to
this question, whether it would not be better for the
Noble Lord to withdraw the motion which he had made,
particularly as the report of the Noble Lord opposite
(Devon) from the Landlord and Tenant Commission had
not been made to the House. Under these circum-
stances he did not think that this was the proper time to
press the motion.
Lord CLONCURRY said that after what had fallen
from his Noble Friend, he would withdraw his motion.
The House then adjourned at a Quarter past Eight.