The Sun.
London, England, 1828-02-19 00:00:00

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• e- stood the Right Ran. Gen-fileinaii), two Cabinets only were
held; one on the 19th December, on Lord Goderivis't
restoration, as the Right Hon. Gentleman calls it,—(A
laugh from the Ministerial Beaches)—Gentlemen may he
very pleasant when, after the blowing • up of the
House, they find themselves on their legs again ; but
we have not bad the good fortune to fall into ‘nsr
offloss.—(A loud laugh.)—The restoration, if we must
so can it, took place on the 19th December (and if in what
• I am about to state, I shall be deemed to go too far, I beg I
mar stopped:) I understand it. was then canvassed and
'se i be
kve settled how far Lord Goderich was to be recognised as the
.1-hesal of the Government. Did the Right Hon. -Gentlerna.n,
out that occasion, object to the appointment of Lord Al-
th orp as Chairman of the • Finance Committee?- On the
eeattary, he complimented Lord Goderich. .. Yet on the
21st, he wrote to him to say—" Although I supported
y our Government the day before yesteetlay, .1 shall now do
any best to blow it up." On the. 19th .he agreed in the
`measures of that Government—yet,_en.tlse 21st, he re-
signed. Was that fair play?—(Cheers:) If the Right
• Hon. Gentleman had brought forward the subject of his
complaint in the Cabinet..-if, indeed, he wished to have
it discussed, that was the proper place for it. He might,
and probably would, have been in a minority—as I believe
- only two of its members would have supported him---still
that was the course he should have pursued. Instead of
that, however, all his ire remained bottled up. (A laugh.)
On the 29th another Cabinet was held, which my Right
Zion. Friend (Mr. Huskisson) attended, but made no
avowal of his intention. The same thing occurred with
respect to the Right Hon. Gentleman. Both had made up
their minds—both had their resignations in their pockets—
(Hear, bear)—each had his pocket pistols half-cocked,
ready to go oft (A loud laugh.) Yet no notice was given.
to us. (Hear, hear.) 'Now, I will say, without fear of
contradiction, that where a Government so conducted it-
self, the sooner it was dissOlved the better for the country.
No—the Right Hon.' Gentleman would not tell any body
' his intentions—yet he Wrote to Lord Goderich to inform
him that he was ready to resigu his situatioueon the aith of
Jan. On the 9th Januaiy my Right Hon. Friend came to
me and informed me, that on the Bth Lord Goderich had
stated to him all that had passed between bins and the pre-
sent Master of the Mint. At that time I did not know
whether the Government was at an cud or not. On the
contrary, I hail heard from my. Right Hon. friend, that,
although he did not know whether Lord Goderich' e Go-
vernment was to go on or not, he was prepared to die in
the _field rather than desert his icing's service.—(lleare
hear, and a laugh.)—So thought I too—mad I was ready
to die in his Majesty's service, but they would not let sue.
--(Roars of laughter.)—l was killed by chance, and here
I am.—(Continued laughter.)—Will.any man believe, that
on the Bth of January, without communicating his listen-
' tion to his colleagues, Lord GOderiels would go down to
Windsor, and there say to his Majesty that he-could not
go on ?—(Cheers.)—l could not have conceived that a
man of his high feelings and character could have se-acted,
- but having done so, and the King finding the Goverinneut
in such a state, and that the business of the nation could
not go on, his Majesty was bound to seud for souse man
of rank, capable of taking the direction of the public
' affairs.—(Cheers.)—A new GovernMent was accord-
ingly formed, I accepted my dismissal, and fell back
into the ranks with the most humble and implicit, obe-
dience to his Majesty's cenunands.—(A laugh.)--There
is no necessity for my going into the details of what
took place at Liverpool. My Right Honourable Friend
will excuse sue from entering auto that, however tempting
the subject may be.—still feeling that it might seem so like
soreness at having been turned out of office—anti I have seen
Ito much of soreness displayed . by men for having been
turned out of office.—(Loud and long continued cheering)
—and which so highly disgusted sue. I feel it due to
myself to • say.--" Here I am, ready to support the mea-
sures of the present Governnsent, so long as they shall ap-
Pear calculated for the public good."—(Chews.) From
my soul I heartily wish that the Duke of Wellington may
so use his great and commanding powers, to controul those
elements of discord in the Government over which lie is
called upon tii.preside, as to give to that Government an
energy and stability, whichacould not be hoped for under
that of his predecessor. . As ' to Mr.'Canning's friends,
they have no place in my mind. I trouble my head no
• more-about them, than' I d. about the commonest pas-
- Inger in the streets. I do not think they behaved to us
as we deserted.--(Loud Cheers.) In his speech at Liver-
-pools the Right Hon: Gentleman was pleased to state the
'grounds on which (he said) we joined Mr. Canning.
Whatthat had to do with the people of Liverpool I am at
tteskdoseto•toow......or what it had to do with his own con-
a/net I am eqUally at a loss to conceive. How did we join
Mr., Canning ? In. answering that question the Right
Mon. Gentleman put a great many words together, and
tatieated,- that when We joined Mr. Canning, it was under-
e-a-stood that several great questions were to be left in abey-
-4'attneea - There-was no abeyance in contemplation. I slid not
join-Mr. Canning's Government with any understanding
etethat any subjects Were to be kept in a state of abeyance.
I and my friends had supported Mr. C.'s Government
for a year and a half previously, and the members of Mr.
Canning's Government ought to have known that his best
sUnportere were to be found on this side of the House,-
-'that had we not so supporter; him, those who affected
' to • have joined in his measures were 'ready to have cut
his throat at every step he tooka—(llenr, hear.) At the
time we joined him, we believed that the wuniry anxiously
•±•%iished for a mixed Adtninistration, and such, I believe, is
at this moment the desire of the country.—(Hear.) The
• Right Hon. Gentleman said at Liverpool, that we joined
Lord Liverpool's Goverarnent in the person of Mr. Can-
ning. I deny that.—(Hear.) We knew Lord Liverpool's
feelings on the Catholic Question. The principle that
guided his Government on that subject was, that every
otiressaber of it might vote upon that question in whatever
way he pleased to vote for it in that House, if they
thought proper, but they were not to pledge the Govern-
ment in its support. They might introduce and debate it
in the Cabinet, if they liked, but could not, to promote it,
nee any of their influence a.s Members of the Administra-
tion. Such was the principle of Lord Liverpool's Govern-
ment. But when I hear, respecting our foreign affairs,
'that his principles also are to be followed up, how am I to
-reconcile that with the statement of Lord Dudley, that the
-principles of Mr. Canning are to be upheld ? Yet the se-
cret article in the Treaty of London says, that should the
a-Porte refuse to listen to a pacific overture, the three
• s Powers were to consult upon what ultimate measures
ought to be adopted. It was not necessary for us to ask
)11 !Mr. Canning respecting his principles—his public and his
u private conduct were for ns sufficient pledges ; but although
-ewe did not exact pledges from him, we thought it fair to
• state to Mr. Canning what we expected. I told biro, that
at my time of life it was not probable that I should witness
a renewed, at least a successful, effort at effecting a Parlia-
mentary Reform; still it was possible that that measure might
be proposed, and I told him, "in taking me into the Cabinet,
you take into office one who will vote for Parliamentary
Reform." Well," said Mr. Canning, in a pleasant
way, " and I shall continue to oppose it ; but if we are to
fight, let it be on the Treasury Bench." I said the same
with respect to the repeal of the Corporation and Test
Acts, and he made a similar reply. On the subject of the
policy to be pursued respecting Ireland it was not necessary
to be so explicit. The policy of the Governsnant which
Mr. Canning succeeded was, by all possible fair means, to
prevent the Catholic Question being
carried. With respect
to that subject the Right Hon. Gentleman says, that in
joining Mr. Canning's Administration, which acted on
Lord Liverpool's principles, we joined one opposed to the
concession of the Catholic Claims. ro On,
e that t. n the
opinions and the inclination of Mr. Canning;ielo
weres well
knows. That he would seize the first opportunity to ro-
mote it could not be doubted. Every vote be had fven
on it was in favour of it ; moreover, we recollected that
previous to his intended departure for India, he made what
he believed would have been his last effort in this House, an
attempt to entitle the Catholic Peers to.take their seats, im
the House of Lords. His policy with respect to that ques-
tion was, therefore, perfectly different from that of Lori
Liverpool—and, convinced of that difference, was it neces-
sary for us to demand a pledge of him with respect to it ?
‘. —(Hear, hear.)—That question,_ it is, true, has not been
"rried--but the situation of Ireland is not the same it
was 'previously to the formation of 111 x. inning's Go-
r.
venament. I have, the,greatest respect for the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite gre
(Mr... Secretary
Peel), but ,to
slay that the, Catholics of Ireland should have the same
degree of confidence in the declared opponents of their
Claims,rta
bpenvihfricihend, n
theygaveo to Lord Lansdowne, theiravowed
a
man. can believe. _ I rejoice
most
heartily, that another Right Hen. Gentleman (Mr. Wm.
_Lamb), who I see in his place, is to go back to Ireland.
God forbid that any thing should prevent the Marquis of
Auglegaz. going there, for he. I believe in my heart, will
prove the •hest Chief GovernOr ever sent to Ireland.—
(clseers.)-Of that sound lawyer and most 'excellent man,
nterbiptre;enthtaCthhae is not
of Ireland--.(Whose best praise is,
niitt politician—and of his conduct
'it -is'impossible to speak too
"lereWei justified in asserting that the Go-
vernMent of Ireland will bennder these three
the heeftliat that Coinitrylaaa ever vet been bleased with.—
olesr.).—The policy of Lord Liverpors Administration
is not, therefore, that whielth.e 'friends of Mr. Canning
uoght to support. The PolleY of Lord- Liverpool's Add
miustration was, when it was strong, to send Mr. Can-
suing to India, and when it. was Viasak. "to cajole film into)
ovelation With them. Theni by•eeiri, ipees• ee of oppoq.ae

tion aitaitatvltuitiraiidn, toiltwiiiriiirsiefttas for his country's
good, and to gall and wound •his highly sensitive feelings.
That was the way too in which they sanctified hie
memory.—(Cheers.)—l entreat pardon of the House for
having so long trespassed on its attention, and shall only
repeat—for the truth of which I pledge my honour to the
Right Honourable Gentleman—that with respect to the ap-
pointment of Lord Althorp to the Chairmanship of the
Finance Committee, I did no go farther than I have stated,
aa.(Cheers.)
Mr. HERRIES explained, but in a tone of voice'sd low,
that it was impossible for us to catch one-word the. Right
Honourable Gentleman said.
Colonel WOOD warmly deprecated the invidious dis-
tinction attempted to'be drawn by the Noble Lord (Althttp)
between the foreign policy of Mr. Canning, and that of
his predecessor, the late Lord Londonderry.
Mr. STANLEY, (who had been loudly called for when
Mr. Herries had sat down, but who had given way to Col.
Wood) said, that after the explanation's given by the three
Right Hon. Gentle Men, it would ill become him to attempt
to add one word to what they had said. If there was any
thing in the proceedings of these Right lien. Gentlemen
other than was known to the country at large, the subordi-
nate situation be had held under the late Government, af-
forded him no opportunity -of knowing it. As to the im-
pression stated by the Right Hen. Gentleman to have been
made out of doors by communications relative to Cabinet
proceedings, he was authorised by Lord Lansdowne to dis-
claim having made any such communications. He was
convinced no blame could attach to that Noble Lord
on the matter. The reason why he himself declined
to take office in the present Government was, that
he could not give it his cordial support. lie should
have felt much pleasure in accepting an office which
would bring him more nearly acquainted with the
practical talents and official experience, and business-like
habits of the Right Hon. Secretary for the Colonies, whom
he still trusted be might call his friend, and to all whose
principles of policy he should have given his litunli!e but
cordial support; but how could he he but surprised when
he now saw the poiitical associates with whom, or rather
under whom, his Right Hon. Friend had lately undertaken
to act? Whatever the House might have heard of the want
of union in the late Government, it might truly be said,
that there was a greater want of union in the present.
Such a medley of men and principles never occurred before.
His own impression was, that these profesSors of discordant
opinions were brought together and held together, by the
strange influence of that divinity-
- Cui placet inipares
Formats atque animus sub juga ahena
Saevo mittere cum joco.
It could only have been the influence of this goddess that
could have placed the Members of the existing Govern-
ment in their present state of ludicrous combination.—
(Laughter. )_The Right Hon. Gentleman appears anxious
to disclaim having made any stipulation with the Noble
Duke at the head of the Government, yet at the same time
he admits that there were agreements and understandings—
now, what were understandings but stipulations ? It was
clear, then, that those four gentlemen who had consented
to remain in office had made corns stipulations as,guaran-
tees of their principles. But what he wished to know
was, whether the Government was to be conducted' upon
the principles of Mr. Canning—if it should, lie was ready
to lend it his zealous support; but it had not yet been said
that it would be conducted on those principles, and ha did
not understand how it could with any consistency. How
could the ministerial sanction of his Right Hon. Friend's
principles of commercial policy, for instance the Corn
Bill—how could it be reconciled with the Noble Duke's
opposition to it—or how could he reconcile the union of
his Right Honourable Friend, as the colleague of the
late Mr. Canning, with a Noble Lord who had declared
Mr. Canning to be a dangerous Minister.—(Cheers.)—
Then, if there was no difference between the present
Members of the Cabinet, on principles, why did Lord
Liverpool's friends go out of office on the promotion
of Mr. Canning to the place of first Minister ? not through
private personal objection to Mr. Canning—no it could
not be believed—but because they saw that a change
had been wrought by Mr. Canning unfavourable to their
power in the Government.—(Cheers. )--And it was on
that principle that he (Mr. Sthnley) and his party went in
to Mr. Canning and gave him their support. But there
.was one particular question in which a decided alteration
had been made by the Constitution of the present Govern-
meut....-he meant the Catholic Question, which the qua-
lity of the existing Cabinet had made the cause of deep
anxiety and agitation in Ireland. The Catholics had placed
their confidence, if not in the power, certainly in the
friendly intentions of the late Cabinet. Of any support
from the present they despaired, though they did not de-
spair of the ultimate success of their cause in that House.—
(Cheers.)—It had been said that the late Government,
even though they shonld.have remained in office, could not
carry the Catholic Question—probably not ; but then the
Catholics knew that they had in the late Cabinet a power-
ful party ready to catch at any favourable opportunity for
advancing the question, and of ultimately carrying it to that
happy consummation which it must eventually attain.
But then he might be told, that the Catholics had a ma-
jority in the present Cabinet ; but how could lie call that an
effectual majority, when he saw on one side of that Cabinet
cold, indifferent, or insincere friends, anti opposed to
, theta a set of . zealous, active, influential adversaries,
headed by the Noble Duke at the head of the Trea-
sury, and supported by the Right Honourable Secre-
tary of State for the Home Department? When he re-
collected this, he could not be brought to believe that the
character of the present Government was calculated to
alter the condition of Ireland and of the Catholic Ques-
tion. But though he did not confide in the present Go-
vernment, he was not still determined to despair of it.
The old Tory_the obstinate stickler for all inveterate
abuses, because they were inveterate--the laudutor tem-
poris acti—the ardent friend of the Holy Alliance, and all
intolerant bigotry—the enemy of every country's freedom
—that ancient and antiquated character was, thanks to
the genius of Mr. Canning, not now in existence. He had
hoped that the Gentlemen who left office in Spring, hav-
ing the advantage of retirement and reflection, during the
Summer's residence in the country, and since learned to
moderate their political feelings, down to the tone of the
liberal opinions of the public ; and if his Hon. Friends
around him had, by their brief enjoyment of office, ef-
fected no other public good than this, he considered even
that to be one of no inconsiderable benefit, though the ul-
timate result of it was their quitting place and power
through an honourable adherence to their principles. For
himself he was ready to give the Government his support
if they should deserve it, and he Loped their conduct would
deserve it.

Mr. WILMOT NORTON did not rise for the purpose
of pressing any opinions of his own on the attention of the
House. His object was to read a letter which he had that
morning received from a Noble. Friend of his, to whom al-
lusions had been made in the course of the debate. This
letter he begged permission to read to the House :_._
" Feb. 18, 1828.
" In reference to the conversation I had with you this
morning OIL the subject of what may pass in the House of
Commons to-night, I venture to rely on your kind and
friendly feelings towards me, in case any thing should be
said which may seem to require explanation on my part,
and which, in consequence of my communications with
you, you may have it in your power to explain. J cer-
tainly have no desire that any unnecessary explanation
should be given, and should be particularly sorry to
impose such a task upon you, or in any degree, to fetter
your opinion on the general question; but you may be
enabled to render me an essential service, and I trust you
may do it, if necessary, without compromising yourself or
any one else."
In compliance with that letter be (Mr. W. Morton) had
risen to state a few circumstances to the House, which
he certainly would not have done, if he did not
think it necessary. His Right Hon. Friend, the Master
of the Mint, insinuated that his Noble Friend had used his
(Mr. Herries) resignation as an instrument for dissolving
the Government, and in support of that view, had read to
the House his letter to Lord Goderich, of the 7th of Jan. ;
doubtless he had a right to read that letter, but he ought at
the same time, to have read to the House the letter of the
Noble Lord, to which it was an answer. He had tood under-
s his Right Hon. Friend (the Secretary for the Colo- '
"ies) PaY that from the time the explanation had been
given to Mr. Hurries, namely, from the and of November
to the beginning of December, no dissatisfaction had been
manifested by the latter Gentleman, while his Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. ferries) stated, that he had abstained from
pressing his resignation on the Noble Lord, on account
of the emberrassed state
of the Administration. Now, his
Noble Friend (Lord Goderich) declares, that he did not
youby the Right Hbn. Gentleman's letter
of the. rltsitl apprisedofNovember, that the Right Hon. Gentleman
felt any dissatisfaction with the Government. In answer
to that letter Lord Goderich wrote the following, which be
should take the liberty of reading to the House :
" January, 1828.
" My dear Herries—The more I reflect upon this un-
fortunate question respecting the Finance Committee, the
more I am convinced that the view Which you have taken
lip is founded on a misconception, both of the circum-
stances which took place at the end of November, and of
the consequences which would result from placing Lord
-PIMP in the chair of that Committee. I am quite eon-
limed that the was no intention whatever of treating )roar'
with disrespect, or of exposing you to the embarresernent of

not -being in your proper place, in all that relates to a mat-
trr so closely connected with your own department. It is
certainly unfortunate, that. any thing whatever was said to
Lord Althorp, before it was settled that something should
be said ; hilt it by no means follows from that circumstance
that the Government ought to be placed in jeopardy if it
can be avoided, especially at a moment so peculiarlY incon-
venient to the King's service, and to the public interest, as
the present must necessarily be. Now, as to the appoint.
scent itself, I must say, that it appears to me that you
greatly overrate the objections and difficulties."
Here, continued the Hon. Gentleman, I shall not read
the Noble Lord's argument, as I do not think it necessary to
the purpose for which I read this letter.
" I wish very mach you would well consider the mat-
ter before you decide to withdraw from the Government,
under circumstances which would cause" so much ember •
rassment."
The embarrassment to which the Noble Lord here al-
ludes was the probable resignation of other members of the
Government, in consequence of that of Mr. Flerries.
4‘ If I thought I was counselling any thing discreditable
to you personally, nothing would induce me to lay this,
view of 'the ease before you, but we all owe much to the
King and the public good, and although I feel every day
snore and more the extent of the sacrifice which office re-
quires, and the pressure, bodily and mental, which it hn.
poses, I feel that we ought, if possible, to meet Parlia-
ment to justify our measures, and then leave it to Parlia-
inent to take what course they may choose in deciding
upon our fate."
Now that letter would prove that nothing was farther
irons his Noble Friend's mind, than a wish to make the
proceeding of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Herries),
the ground of dissolving the Government. As to the
alleged alteration, predicted by the Hon. Gentleman who
had spoken last, of the policy of the Colonial Department,
he was ready to assert there was no such alteration intended ;
but that all the improvements, whose foundation was laid
by the Noble Lord, lately at the head of that office, were in
the course of being carried into certain though slow execu-
tion. For himself, and he stated it as a reason why he did
not retire from office, he believed that the principles of Mr.
Canning—that is, the principles of improvement—would-be
carried into effect by the present Government—those opinions
Of public policy, whose elements that great Statesman had
found scattered in the public mind ; but had concentrated
them by the potent influence of his talents into one focus of
active operation. As to his Right Hon. Friend the Secre-
tary for the Colonies (Mr. Huskisson) he was sure that, had
he allowed himself to shrink through cowardice from the
official connexion with his late friends, he would stand
much lower in the opinion of the country than he did at
present.—(Cheers.)—As to the debate of that night he
should say, the country had been alrady drugged with
personalities—the House would do better to wait until they
should see what measures the Ministers would actually carry
into effect, than to waste the public time in discussing per-
sonal matters, or indulging public curiosity.—(Cheers.)
Lord ALTHORP thought he should be wanting in
respect for the House, if he declined stating what he knew
of the circumstances. He was sure the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman's (Mr. Herrio) objections to himself as Chairman
of the Committee, were not at all of a personal nature.
(Here the Noble Lord confirmed Mr. Tierney's account of
the communications between himself and that Right Hon.
Gentleman on the proposed nomination of his Lordship to
the Chair of the Finance Committee.) If he (Lord
Althorp), had been aware of the slightest wish on the part
of the Right Honourable Gentleman to oppose the no-
mination of his Lordship, he should have taken that op-
portunity of relieving himself most willingly from an office
of such laborious duty. As to the objections to him,
founded on the circumstance of his being a party man
he (Lord Althorp) avowed it—he had. been a party man
most years of his life—he thought good could be effected
by political persons only by their combination into party ;
but, after the circumstances of last spring, lie had ceased to
be:a party man, and that, therefore, was a peculiarly for-
tunate time to object to him on the ground of his belonging
to a party. As to the objection that he entertained fixed
opinions on certain questions of finance, he did not deny
that he (lid hold fixed opinions on them ; but he could not
help remarking, that the objections to him on that ground
could not have been very strong in the eyes of the Right
Hon. Gentlemen opposite, for they had appointed to the
Chair of that identical Committee a Right Hon. Friend of
his (Sir 11. Parnell) who was known to entertain as fixed
opinions on the subjects as he (Lord Althorp) did.—
(Laughter and cheers.) The Right Honourable .Gentle-
man had an interest to vindicate ; and like most persons
interested in the subject, spoke better upon it, and
with greater knowledge, than an indifferent man
like' himself (Lord Althorp) could pretend to. If, how-
ever, the Right Non. Gentleman thought it essential to a.
Chairman of Committee of Finance, that he should haves
no notion of his Own, it had been much better that he
should have proposed a selection from among such indivi-
duals as possessed neither opinions of their own, nor any
knowledge of the subject.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—ln an-
swer to the other Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Huskis-
son), who seemed to intimate that Lord Goderich's objec-
tion to him (Lord Althorp) was, not that he had net an
opinion on 'Finance matters, but that lie had not studied
them sufficiently, the House had heard a different cause
assigned by the Right Hon. the Master of the Mint (Mr.
Herries), namely, that his (Lord Althorp's) prejudices or
opinions were so fixed, that nothing could change them.
Now, certainly, lie (Lord A.) had declared that the keep-
ing up a nominal Sinking Fund for the mere sake of hav-
ing a Sicking Fund, was a most disadvantageous applica-
tion of the resources of the country. But assuredly he
had never had the presumption to value any opinion of his
own so highly, as to be determined, under no possible state
of circumstances, to change it.
Sir GEORGE WARRENDER was anxious to apprise
the House of the grounds upon which lie could not give his
confidence to the Government as at present constituted.
His Right Hon. Friend, Mr. Peel, the leader in that
House, was deeply pledged to an opposition to the Catholic
Question, and with that sincerity which distinguished all
his measures, bad but very recently abandoned office, on
the principle that lie could not retain it under a Minister
who, like that great man, Mr. Canning, was favourably
disposed towards the Catholic Claims. Again, it appeared
to him that the guarantees about which so much had been
said, for the perseverance of the present Government in the
measures and policy of Mr. Canning, were by no means
sufficient. On that account, although with infinite pain,
lie found himself bound to separate from very many lion.
Gentlemen, for whose personal characters long habits of
friendly intercourse had impressed hint with the most sin-
cere and profound respect.
Lord MILTON agreed with his Hon. Friend in think-
ing, that had the conversation of to-night originated out of
motives of mere curiosity, the time of the House would
have been consumed to little purpose; but when he recol-
lected how important it was that the characters of persons
in high offices of state should be thoroughly understood, he
could not lament the time that had been spent. As to
what had bean stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Herries), he confessed that in the greater part of his speech
he had made a good case for himself. Nevertheless, he
must allow him (Lord Milton) to express his opinion, and
not hie opinion merely, but an opinion pretty general in
the country, that it might be suspected that he was in-
fluenced inure by private feeling than by the interest of
public policy ; because the Right Hon. Crentlensan more
than once referred to certain objections to his entering the
Cabinet, which lie states as grounds on his part for enter-
taining a jealousy of his Noble Friend (Lord Althorp). He
could not but quarrel with the Right Hon. Gentleman for
giving a handle to such an opinion, as that the conduct of
public men was influenced by private opinion. As to the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson), his forming a
part of the Administration constituted the only hope he
(Lord M.) had of a good Administration for the country.
But he confessed, he should have been better pleased had he
said he had obtained more substantial guarantees than he
(Lord M.) understood he had.
Lord MORPETH had looked upon the Right Hon.
Gentleman as a sincere supporter of the policy of Mr. Can-
ning, and that he considered it important to the, interests
'of the country. He saw him rise with anxiety, lie had
listened to hint with attention, andheard him conclude
with unfeigned disappointment.
Lord PALMERSTON—When a proposition was made
to himself to become a Member of the New Government,
he had answered at once, that he. wished first to know who
were to be the Members of that Government. When,
however, he found that such inen as his Right Hon.
Friend, (Mr. Huskisson), and Lord Dudley, and the Pre-
siclt.df tlie
the Cabinet,tOardof
ii
Traci. (mr. C. Grant), were to be
Members of wanted no
other pledge for the
maintenance of those principles he had always supported.
From the mouth of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Tierney), when he explained the grounds of his joining
the friends of Mr. Canning, his Lordship declared lie could
draw a justification for the confidence he had thus reposed
in the present Government. The Noble Lord then took a
view of the present state of the Catholic Question, and
contended that it remained in the same condition as it had
been, and that he and the other Members of the Govern-
ment had the most distinct assurances and explanations
tEhmempnoelipicaytiotno. beesamart insuedb
subjected, wt,ithandreegvaerrdy
ototheCraltithlie
from the Noble Duke, that no changewas to take place in
has been mentioned to the Noble 'Duke, he (Lord Pal,
, •
merston) and his friends 'had raiSived every explanation
and satisfaction which any man could desire, short of such

"itiAarons as men of honour call not grant, nor any man
of honour require.
Mr. LITTI.ETON rose to exculpate the Right Hon.
Gentleman, Mr. Huskisson, from the blame of not having
before given au explanation, and professed himself ready to
take that blame on himself—if blame attached to any per-
son., On the return of that Right Hon. Gentleman to town,
he conveyed to him his belief that it was the intention of
the Gentlemen opposite, to put some questions to him (Mr.
lluskisson) on the Monday following. On Monday he at-
tended in his place, when it was understood those Gentle-
men meant to postpone putting their questions till the mo-
tion for a Committee of Supply. It was notorious, not
only that the Right Hon. Gentleman did attend in his
place that evening, but that he was ready to give every in-
formation, and that he was anxious to be called on to give
it; but when the time came for appointing the Committee
of Siipply, the intention of questioning the Right Hon.
Gentleman was postponed till the appointment of the Com-
mittee of Finance. His Right Hon. Friend came down to
the House that night with the intention of making the ex-
planations now demanded of him, but no opportunity was
afforded him. (Hear, hear.) For his part he would speak
openly, and would express his satisfaction that the discus-
sion had been delayed till this period, for it gave the Right
HOn. Gentleman au opportunity of reading the letter from
Mr. Sheppard, by which he was completely borne out in his
own statements, that there was at Liverpool no question of
any guarantee in the sense that word had been understood.
But he now saw by the continuance of three Ministers in
office, the Government pledged in three departments—the
department of the Colonies, the department of Commerce
and Trade, and the Foreign Department—to a continua-
tion of the policy of the late Administration. With regard
to the Catholic Question, he felt not uneasy, as he saw
that the Noble Secretary at War, who had been intro-
duced into the Cabinet on account of that question, had
not been removed. His Right Hon. Friend had satisfied
him that this question was still placed on the same basis
as it was nominally placed by Mr. Canning. The gua-
rantees received were such, he thought, as were safe and
were consistent with honour. It was not possible at pre-
sent to govern this country by any other than liberal inea-
'sures. (Hear, hear.) A country like this, wealthy and
intelligent, and blessed with free institutions, could not
be governed in total disregard of the opinions of the people.
He was at present satisfied that the Government, as it was
now constituted, would pursue a liberal policy, and as long
as it did, it should have his support, and no longer.
Mr. DUNCOMBE (Member for Hertford) com-
menced by alluding to a passage in one of the letters read
by Mr. Herries, and addressed to Lord Goderich, in which
that Hon. Gentleman expressed a hope that his Lordship's
Administration would stand, and that the country would
not be deprived of the services of their mutual friend. He
(Mr. Duncombe) wished to know who that mutual
friend was 7
Mr. HERRIES—" Mr. Huskisson, of course."

Mr. DUNCOMBE then wished to know how it came to
pass that the Hon. Qentlenian (Mr. Berries) should have
informed the House that it was for the first time this night
he had ever heard of the resignation or intended resignation
of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson), although
allusion is manifestly made to the circumstance in several
places in those letters ? The Noble Lord lately at the head
of the Administration had given a very fair account to the
public of the early stage of the disorder which had proved
fatal to the Cabinet, but he should have explained why the
head fell nerveless and, paralyzed to the ground without any
notice whatever to the other Members.—(A laugh.)__
The frivolous objection to the appointment of Lord Al-
thorp, it appears, was sufficient to excite an almost irre-
concileable difference between the two bight Hon. •Gen-
tleman opposite. How they contrived to settle the
matter, the public have yet to learn. He could not help
thinking, that instead of attributing the dissolution of the
Administration to individuals upon one side or the other,
its cause was to be found in the existence of a secret in-
fluence behind the Throne,— a mysterious power whose
form is never seen—whose name is never breathed, and
yet who rules the entire state, and directs the whole
machine—
" At whose nod the streams of honour flow—
" Whose smiles the gifts of patronage bestow."
--(Laughter.)—ln addition to this incorporeal being,
there is another being, of a more substantial form, who
boasts to be the arbiter of peace and war,—who possessed
an unbounded credit in finance affairs, and upon whom fre-
quently depends the fate of nations. He trusted that the
Duke of Wellington and the Secretary for the Home De-
partment would not allow the finances of this great coun-
try to be controlled any longer by a Jew, or the distribu-
tion of the patronage of the Crown operated upon by the
prescriptions of a physician.—(Great laughing.)
Mr. Secretary PEEL—I must express my surprise, Sir,
at much of the matter introduced by the Noble Lord for
the consideration of the House, and at his belief that it
was impossible I should not know any thing of the causes
which led to the dissolution of the late government ; but
I cannot explain those causes, for of them I know nothing
whatever. I never was aware of the existence of that cor-
respondence which has this night been read to the House
till I heard it here, and had no more information of
these occurrences at the time than any Gentleman might.
gather from the public papers. Nothing, however, shall
induce me to enter into the particulars of the discussion,
or to pronounce an opinion on it. My Right Honoura-
ble Friend has been called on for explanations, as if, by
joining an Administration formed on the principles
adopted under Lord Liverpool's Administration, lie had
deserted some public principles. As far as I am concerned,
I shall not enter into any Vindication of myself ; but I pro-
ceed to the only part of the accusation whirls I think worth
noticing. I must say a word or two on what fill from
the Honourable Gentleman who had just taken his seat.
He alluded to a mysterious, an incorporeal being behind
the Throne, and exerting an influence that was felt by
the Ministers. I can declare, that for the five years which
I served his Majesty, I never found myself thwarted by
this incorporeal being of whom the Honourable Gentle-
man speaks, nor any example of these intrigues of which
he speaks, either in the disposal of patronage, or in the ar-
rangement of the finances. To some other of the insinu-
tions of the Hon. Gentleman, never having seen any example
of these circumstances to which he alludes, it is impossible
for me to reply. I know what explanations may be de-
manded of me, but I think it right to state the circum-
stances which induced me to return into the service of the
Crown. I feel that every part of the character of public
men is of importance to the public, and their acts ought
to be known that they may be compared with their pro-
fessions ; and I am glad that the time has arrived when I
can put the question at rest as to what circumstances ins
duced me again to accept of office. On the night of the
9th of January, and I was then residing in Sussex, I re-
ceived a letter from the Duke of Wellington, informing me
that he had received his Majesty's commands to form a
new Administration, and requesting that I would come to
town that he might confer with me. I immediately left
the place, and arrived in town early the next morning; I
went to the Duke of Wellington, and he said the same
thing to me as be had written in his letter, which was in
substance, that he had his Majesty's commands to submit
to him a project for a new Administration. He said that
I was the first person he had consulted, and did I feel will-
ing again to. enter his Majesty's service? I asked in what
capacity? And was I to understand that he was to ac-
cept the situation of Prime Minister ? He said that his
Majesty wished him to do so, but that lie had not made
up his Mind ; that he had requested leave to postpone
giving his answer, and that if his Majesty should wish it,
it would be for him the greate-st sacrifice he had ever been
called ou to make iu the whole course of his life. He did
postpone his final answer, but in short the Duke of Wel-
lington did become Prime Minister. I stated to the Duke
of Wellington, that if he was to be Prime Minister, I for
one should be content to serve under him, I also added
my opinion as to the manner in which the Government
should be re-constructed, and as to the principles on which
it should be conducted, so as to be most advantageous to
the country; and I added, that his Grace, if lie were de,
termined to accept the situation of Prime Minister, should
separate it front the office of Commander-in-Chief. I took
the liberty of expressing my opinions as to the principi Ls on
which the Government ought to be conducted, and found
his Graces opinions concurred with any own. I stated,
that in the present situation of the country, looking to the
state of parties, and to the talents of public men, I thought
the Administration should not be re-constructed on any ex-
treme or exclusive principle. I thought it my duty not to
withhold my opinion that the country could not possibly
he governed with advantage by any exclusive or extreme
opinion.—(Hear.)—As to our foreign policy, it would
depend on circumstances; but I was convinced that the
best interests of the country required for us to pursue a
course of moderation. His Grace said, his opinions
of the general principles of Government were on all
the points I have stated exactly like my own. It has been
said, that there has been a great sacrifice of principle on the
part of those who have taken office ; but after this expla-
nation of the Duke of Wellington's opinions, and the line of
policy he was disposed to adopt, how any such imputa-
tion can be made against my Right Hon. Friend I do not
conceive. I tun sure that I acted consistently and con.
scientiously in taking office, and I should not have acted
either consistently or conscientiously if I had not done
so. If I had stated that the Government ought to be
formed ~.on extreme or exclusive principles, I should
have departed from those principles and from those
views which I fortuity avowed, and which directed

my course for many years. The House will recollect that
the only ground on which I refused to act with Mr. Can-
ning, was our different views as to the Catholic Question,
and on that ground alone I left office. I agreed with him
as a colleague on all other points, and his opinions were
on them the same as Lord Liverpool's, but 1 objected to
his being Prime Minister. I put this opinion on record,
about two days before relinquishing office. On April 9th,
the Lord Chancellor (Lord Eldon) waited on rue by his
Majesty's command—and in now stating these circum-
stances, I can commit no breach of confidence—to
discuss with me the then situation of the Govern-
ment, and to ask me, if any changes were to take
place, would I continue to act with the Administration.
This communication was made on the 9th of April, in
consequence of some previous discussion ; but considering
that the subject was of some importance, I. requested time
to give an answer, and I requested that Lord Eldon would
not report the conversation to his Majesty. The substance
of that conversation I wrote and sent as a letter, two days
afterwards to Lord Eldon. I will net quote the whole of
that letter to the House, but I will read a part of it. The
Right lion. Gentleman then read an extract of a letter he
had written to Lord Eldon, expressing in substance, his
readiness to continue to hold the situation he then held, if
the Cabinet were conducted on Lord Liverpool's principles,
stating
should o
his opinionscnsdieri
ont
the
misfortuneC
Catholic
ic
toquit
Question,saying that
he his
Majesty's
service, and signifying that his opinions on all other sub-
jects but that of the Catholic Question accored with that
of the majority of his colleagues. When I was called on
(continued the Right Hon. Gentleman) on the 10th of
January, to make part of an Administration to be conduct-
ed on these principle!, could I refuse, Sir, to enter the
'King's service ? and was it not natural that I should
adopt the course I did, and join myself to those with whom
I had formerly acted ? If a personal difference between
'eels is to prevent their taking office together, and if those
who agree in principle are not to act in concert, it seems
to me that it is impossible that the public service can be
carried on. With respect to any jealousy I have been
supposed to entertain of Mr. Canning, I can conscientiously
say that I relinquished office from no jealousy of Mr. Can-
ning, but because when he became Priese Minister the
principles of Lord Liverpool's Cabinet were changed for
those of Mr. Canning's. I was not his opponent—l was
not his rival in power and advancement ; and I should have
had no difficulty in remaining in office, if the Cabinet had
always been formed on the same principles. In the rela-
tion I stood as Secretary for the Home Department to the
Prime Minister, I should have done wrong if I had re-
mained with a chance of introducing disorder into the
Administration. It was difficult for other Members of the
Cabinet, differing from Mr. Canning, but it was not pos-
sible for the secretary of State for the Home Department to
escape from such a dilemma. I must add, that I wished to
remain in office, and that I was ready to act under Mr.
Canning, and he to he leader in the House of Commons,
subject to what I have already stated, as to the difficulty of
acting under hint as Prime Minister. When the Duke of
Wellington was made Prime Minister, I had no objection—
I could have no objection—to return to office. When I was
recalled to office, I can say, like my Noble Friend on my left
hand (Lord Palmerston), that no sacrifices were asked, and
none were made ; but the acceptance of office was put on
such grounds, as honourable men might offer and ho-
nourable men might accept; and when it was so offered to
me, I felt no disposition to refuse. In the formation of
the Administration—in the policy to be pursued by the
Duke of Wellington, there were many reasons, particularly
with reference to the affairs of the East, why it was im-
portant for the service of the Crown and of the country
that Lord Dudley should continue to preside over the fo-
reign policy,—and to a Nobleman of greater ability, ho-
nour, and integrity, than Lool Dudley, apart front al'
party consideration, it could not be entrusted. Then, Sir,
with respect to the administration of Ireland, I stated to
my Noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington) my concur-
rence in hia opinion, that there was no public man to
whom, with more confidence, the administration mill he
entrusted—no man on whom a more proper selection could
fall for the Secretaryship of Ireland, than the Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr, Lamb) who now held that office. With
respect to the Catholic Question, it was declared to those
who were invited to' form a part in the new Admi-
nistration, that this question was to be an open one—that
any member of the Cabinet was at liberty to propose it in
Parliament, if lie should think proper to do so. That
being the ground on which the question rested, a neu-
trality, it was understood, was to be observed upon it ;
and in strict observance of that principle of neutrality,
I ant satisfied it is the wish and determination of the Duke
of Wellington that the Administration should proceed.
Another topic which has been introduced into the discus-
sions of this evening, is the proceedings respecting the Corn
Bill. As to myself; I have no explauatien to give upon.
that subject ; for it was arranged, that if Mr. Canning had
been prevented by indisposition front bringing forward that
measure, I should have brought it forward. I concurred
iu and approved of the principles of the Bill, and so did
my Noble Friend the Duke of Wellington approve of the
principle of it. This he proved by voting for the second
reading of it. 'Tis true that in the subsequent stages of
the Bill—io the details of the measure—my Noble Friend
introduced, as he was entitled to do, an amendment. which
aftewarde led to the failure of it---but thie should not
surely form an insuperable bar to any Member who may
have differed front him on the amendment, from being
a constitoetit Member of the sante Cabinet with the
Duke of Wellington. Upon the subject of pledges to par-
ticular measures, it is impossible for any one Member of
an Administration to give that positive and binding pledge
to another, which shall bind hint at all times and circum-
stances. If Mr. Canning had invited me to he a Member
of his Administration (and this Catholic Question being
settled, I should willingly have served either with him or
under hint), I should have said to him, " For the last five
years there has been that general concurrence in sentiment,
that accordance on all important measures between us, that
from our experience in a general course of action, I see no
impediment to prevent me from being a Member of the
same administration with you."—(Hear, hear.)—But I
cannot suppose how one public man can call upon another
to lay down an iron formula by which he shall be bound in
all the changes, combinations, and varieties which front
time to time may arise in society.—(hear, heae.)—Two
measures have beers referred to as pecitliarly the measures
of Mr. Canning's policy—the one, the recognition of the
States of South America,—the other the expedition
to Portugal, Sir, in both those measures I con-
curred. I had thought that some of the States of Spa.
nish America had established their de facto separation
front the mother country, and I fully concurred in the
propriety of the recognition at the time at which it took
place. Sir, again, with respect to the expedition to Por-
tugal, that expedition was undertaken on the just principle
of fulfilling tire stipulations into which we had entered to
protect Portugal from foreign aggression. (Hear.) Let
it not be supposed, Sir, that I am the " laudator (em-
poria acti ;" in saying this, I only adduce these instances
as they have been referred to by other Hon. Gentlemen,
and mention them as reasons why (the Catholic Question
not interfering,) I should have accepted office, as I have
said, either with or under Mr. Canning, from the general
accordance that subsisted between us; but this was very
different from abiding by a fixed, invariable principle, by
which I should be pledged at all times, and under all cir-'
cumstancea. An Hon. Gentleman (Mr. T. Duncom),e)
who took pert in the debate, had given no great encourage-
ment to conciliatory explanations, by stating, that if Hon.
Gentlemen were to explain to eternity, in his opinion, they
would not satisfy the House or the country ; and the same
lion. Gentleman seemed to favour the opinion that persons
between whom private animosities once may have existed,
should never engage to act together in the service of the
Crown and of the country.
Mr. I'. DUNCOMBE (of Hertford) said, that what he
stated was, that he had been assured that the Right Hon,
Gentleman (Mr. Huskissou) had stated, that he never
would act in the same Cabinet with those whom he re-
garded as the destroyers of his friend, Mr. Canning.
Mr. Secretary PEEL—But, Sir, the Hon. Member may
recollect that there is on record an instance of that Friend
himself (Mt. Canning) having merged all personal animo-
sities in the higher considerations of the service of the
Crown and of the Country ; and however the Hon. Gen-
tleman way regard it, a Noble Friend of Mr. Canning
(Lord Dudley)—than whom no man stood higher in repu-
tation for lienour—justly considered that his generous
oblivion of his differences with a Noble Lord (Castlereagh)
constituted one of the brightest traits in his whole character.
____(Loud cries of hear, hear.)—Sir, whatever supposed
difkrences may have been adverted to, I can only state,
dnring the short period that the Administration has been
formed, called upon the eve of the Meeting of Parlisinene
to concert measures for the service of the Crown or of
the country, that there has been a most cordial unior
and accordance in sentiment amongst its Afrrnbers'—
There is but one topic more ore which I shall have occa.
sion to address the House. It is the declaration which hi!
ent a
Majesty made to the Duke of Wellington when he
him with the formation of an Administration, , rustecal
upon you," said his Majesty, " to form an Administrta
tion—the late Administration has been dissolved by it,
own acts; had not its dissolution occurred in this way, ;
would have remained faithful to it to the last." The Righ
lion. Secretary concluded by stating, that it was import,
ant to make this statement known to the House and tin
country, for making which he had permission, as it server
to explain the circumstances which led to the formatios

of the present Administration. The dissolution of tLe
forwr grew out of no conduct or interference on the parr
of the present Ministers, and is solely, in his opinion, to be
attributed to causes in which they had no participation.
-Mr. Secretary HUSKISSON, in reference to the de-
claration which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. T. Duncombe)
has stated to have been made by me, I will Only state it is
a most unwarranted and unfounded one. Sir,- I never did
make such a declaration as the Hon. Member for Hertford
attributes to me. I never did state that [Would never act
in office with those who persecuted, or, as he states, de -
stroyed Mr. Canning. What I did state was this !
When I returned to England in August, after the death of
my lamented friend, Mr. Canning—I did state that " the
wounds were then too green and fresh, for me to act with
those who directed the Administration when -Mr. Canning
was placed at the head of it." .That was my expression—
" the wounds were then too green and fresh ; ' and pro_
testing again against the violated confidence by which any
expression of mine upon the subject had gone abroad, and
protesting too against the abominable application which
had been sought to make of it,—the language will not
hear the construction which has been attempted to assign
to it, " that I would never engage to act in the public ser-
vice" with those with whom it is made a ground of accn,
sation against me, that I have been since associated in tie
Cabinet. The Right Hon. Secretary entered into a brief
explanation of some points referred to by several Hen.
Members, and in conclusion, tittered his most indignant,
protest against the imputation of a cabal, to which 'we
was no party, and of the existence of which he had no
knowledge.

Mr. BROUGHAM--I can assure the House that at this
hour. (one o'clock in the morning) I do not intend to enter
into a discussion of all the manifold topics introduced into
the debate of this night—partly because many of those topics
are too important to be discussed at this advanced hour in the
manner in which their momentous interest requires—and
partly because several are exceedingly ludicrous ; and this
last epithet, ludicrous, is, indeed, the proper characteristic
of the proceedings and topics adverted to in this night's
discussion. Sir, I never was so strongly impressed as I
was by the various explanations this night, with the force a
the observatiou of Chancellor Oxensteirn to his son, " Go
and see what little wisdom is required in the Government
of Kingdoms." Really any impartial person, who had heard
the explanations of this night, and learned from them the,
manner in which this great country had been governett foe
, the last few months, could not fail to fed the force a this
remark—for certainly there appeared to be very little
dom resorted to in the mode of its Government during that
time. (A laugh.) Indeed 1 marvel to see what little wisdom
is requisite for such a purpose. (Much laughter.) First there
was a Prime Minister, chiefly remarkable for walking about
• with two resignations in his pocket—conditional resignations
and great care was to be taken that the conditions attached
to them were not to be hastily removed. Then the letter
of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Berries) made a con_
siderahle figure in the scene; it answered all questions.
and was referred to in all emergencies. The Noble Lore,
at the head of Administration was terrified lest hesalioul
lose his Chancellor of the Exchequer. But the • Right
lion. Gentleman was inexorable, and constantly referred
to his letter of the 22d of December. " But pray do not
resign," said the Noble Lord at the head of affairs. "
letter of the 22d of December," said the Chancellor of thee
Exchequer. " But lam agitated beyond measure," said
his Lordship. The Chancellor continued, "My letter of
the 22d of December." The Noble Lord. pleaded almost
in tears; but still the stony.hearted Chancellor pointed to
his letter of the 22d of December. In short, not a:word,
could be got out of the Right Hon. Gentleman by any .p-
-peal, but a stern reference to the letter of the Zed of. De.;
eeruber ! Then the quarrel between the two Rigl-At Hun.
entlemen on the ether side (Mr. Herries and 'air. Huss
aisson) was she most extraordinary deacript:ton. It was
endless, hopeless : walls of brass were milted to divide the
contending parties for ever. To communicate with each
ether, was impossible. Tke result of all which is, that the
two, respecting whom all this discussion arises, are still in
office, and acting together in a new Administration. Oh !
'tis impossible, says the Right Hon. Gentleman, the late
Chancellor of the Exchequer--it is impossible—it is 3
iiike to suppose that 1 could occasion all this ; it was
intended to break up the Ministry, and it is quite
idle to suppose that I could have in any way caused or
created it. Each Member who took part in the discussion
vinilieatod himself from the responsibility of having in any
way been necessary to the dissolution, and was ready to at-
tribute the blame to any one rather than himself. The
situation of Lord Goderich was certainly an arduous one.
He was surrounded by all the elements of discord. Fu
that Noble Lord I have a sincere respect. I thank him,
end 1 respect him for the great public talents he evinced
arid the great public services which he rendered to the coun-
try, whilst he was a Minister in this House. But uolms he
was a Prime Alinister with .both the Civil and Military
Power at his back.--unless he had the Provoat-roar-
tial to aid him, in taking the refractory Members of the
Cabinet to Row-street, to swear them to keep the peace to.
wards one another at the Council-board—be certainly had,
harsh materials to work with. The whole busioess fro
the beginning to end, was a most sorry proceeding, aal
all event* the two Right Hon. Gentlemen stood EXerupt
from the charge of being at all skilled ;13 iptrigue—of
which of course they will he glad, as !sty is necessary con-
sequence their character for integrity will be raised in the
"pinion of the country.—(Cheers and laughtei.', It is a
farce, says the Master of the Mint (Mr. Herries), to sup-
pose that I broke up the Admittistration There wee se
cabal, said he—l knew it.

Mr. HERRII?.S—I did not us zbe Wrd cabal.
Mr. BROUGHAM—WeII, then, there was a design—
" t plan, if you please—to blow up the Ministry; and, added
the Right Hon. Cientienum, I knew t. I knew it, said
he twice ; and he was cheered both times, with cheers that
rent the sky, by the Ultra Tory party, who are noxious t(
retain the Right Hon. Gentleman, because they know hewill go any length with them—as far as is consistent. with
his public duty.—(Much laughter and cheers. )._...milt he
distinctly said, I know there is a design. Now, I, as
a Constitutional Lawyer, beg to tell the Right Honalr -
able Gentleman, that be has uttered impeachable mat-
ter, fox if he knew, as a Privy Councillor knew and
he stated that there Was a plan or design to sub..
vert the King's Govern's:eau—without advising
the
King as he was bound to do, he is liable to the pe-
nalty of impeachment for his neglect in not disclosing it.
The Hon. and ',gamed Gentleman proceeded next to ad-
vert to the imputed censure of Lord Goderich, contained
in the explanatory speech of the Right. Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Herries), who certainly was a person he (Mr. B. )
thought, who might have well, and properly spared, the
biting ridicule in which be indulged towarde that Nohle•
man. If it had not been for the observations of the Mem-
ber for Knarethorough, there was not one person in the
House who would not have left it with au erroneous im-
prestion of what the Right Hon. Gentleman meant to say.
Another remark of the Right Hon. Gentleman is, that
Lord Goderich, in his letter, although he denied having
been a party to any negociation for the appointment of my
Noble Friend to Ise Chairman of the Committee, vet did
not deny but the negoeiatinn had gone to a certain extent.
In his anxiety to clear himself, however, he totally mistakes
Lord Goderich's letter. He says that the matter It-as
finally arranged without consulting bins ; and yet early in
December he reads a letter from Lord Galeria, stating
that the matter was not finally arranged, and that there had.
nth7t
fbneeann dnoouthbitnagfteelrsethtlista,
Ca
and treats the
matter
sway nor, finallynly any
a
ranged? The letter calls for dismission,

s'n
wholef oolisicl‘ Comedy Ei 1
--The arrangement
have in of the Right
affair as a completely open subject.
and so
BmßnOchuGor
aApll
Mr. HERRIES (across the table)
a business,.
was finished.
then se
Errors" was never heard of. What interest could the
Right Hon. Member for Liverpool, or the Right Hon.
Hon. Gentleman ? There we's no slight shown to him.
Member for Knaresborougb,
that they
The whole affair o'39' had talked the matter
over, and he had beard them
.talk it over. lam glad, Sir,
that one of your predecessors Is not now in the Chair, or else
. „, he.nr of our ancestors turning in their graves
we might t at this
with astonisinoeu. extraordinary raree show. We
have heard of weight and influence, of integrity, of wealth
and of talent; but here all such notions appeared to be laid
aside.ire—ceNl;l7th
The. statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman is not.
only inconsistent, but his conduct is inconsistent. Hr
~ap, I was too Insignificant to be the cause of the break-
ing ep of the Ministry, and, therefore, I infer that there
was a plot by the Marquis of Lansdowne and others tz,
upset it. 1-1
He objects to my Noble Friend as Chairman of
the Cotntnittee—a Nobleman not particularly connected
with any party—wishing Government wilen. to support..
it deserves support, and not turning agatnq it except
when it does not deserve it, and therefore, a man than
Whom a more impartial one could not be found to act as
Chairman. He objects to my Noble Friend, he,,,u,,,,,
was committed on the subject of the Sinking Fund. Now
what does he say to the Bullion question? That is at the
root of the whole matter, and yet who has been chosen
Chairman of the Committee? Sir Henry Parnell ! Why Sir
Henry Parnell has written a book on the bullion question.
and there is no man who speaks more sensibly or soundly
in the subject. There is no man who speaks more
,trongly in favour of a metallic circulation. He is an
:.conomist, and a member of the Economic-id Society
I am not sure but he is opposed to the Right Hon;
Gentleman and his party; even on the question of the