The Sun.
London, England, 1810-12-21 00:00:00

FRI DA V, DECEMBER 21, 1810.

the present circumstances of Spain and Portugal ;
respecting
.this, at a former period when he was
more sanguine as to the event than at present, be
approVed of the conduCi of his Majesty's, Govern-
ment, and thought it- was right to send out troops
to support theinhabitants. But in the present case,
when reinforcements may be wanted by the emi-
nent Commander on that station, he would ask,
whether the, Noble Lords entertained any doubt as
to the legality of sending out such reinforcements ?
From the gestures of the Noble Secretary of State,
he should suppose they did not. He had then to ,
ask, if by their not sending them, a great injury
does not accrue to the public service of the coun-
try ? He bad a third question to put to the Noble
Lords, and that respected the important question
between this country and ti,e United States-L-a case
wherein the British Government was called upon
speed 4 to' determine upon one of two modes of
policy, either to revoke toe Orders in Coundil,•or to
express the grounds or reasons for, their cm-I*m,
arc the former of which alternatives ought in
his judgment to be adopted, And against the lime
that the.Aineii-Can Republic expeCied their answer,
an explanation from Ministers Lin this )4.t.:i,1 was the
mo'e necessary, as the. ~were about to call upon the
House to acquiesc,- in a slow and cireuius mode
of proceeding for restoring the personal exercise
the royal authority, to preference to a speeds and
compendious mode, whici would avert the nume-
rous pending evils with which the country was
thremened.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose, and in answer to
what had been urged by his Noble Frieno, observ-
ed, that the numerous queries put to him could not
be adequately considered as their importance de-
served, and the solutions given, without going into
retiew of the whole 'political situation et the Em-
pire at the present
.period. If he abstained from
such a discussion, it was solely from the impossibi-
li:y of entering into it at large at the present coo-
meta and under the circumstances in which they
were placed. In the present mutation o! the coun-
try, his 'Majesty's Goverement were fully aware of
the difficuitiea w ich pressed upon them, but they
eerie also aw tre that those difficulties were of two
The momenteus outy aa- imposedam them
to consider tt w he the interest of the country, up-
on the whole, required of them to recommend to
Parliament to suspend all_ proceedings on the one
:hand, and oothe other the peliod when the same
consideration required that the necessary proceed-
ings should he, co,nmencei. Under these impres-
sions they had proposed seteral short adjournments,
with a view to give Parliament all opportunity of
either instituting such proceedings as they may think
necessary, or in view 01
.the case;
_uort-aethe
circumstances of the time, to postpone the adoption
()Swell proceedings. The conduct of his Majesty's
Government was regulated by a tud view of the
difficulties on both sides, and on that grot nd the
'peculiar difficulties ofethe situation. in which they
were placed should be-carefelly considered. • With
respect toahe particular points- adverted to by his,
Nude lend, he had to say, that he was not aware
of any materal injury to tee public service, by the
delay, in epee ioo, nor was he a a are that Ministers
had abstenurd ftom any ads which tinder other cir-
cumStauces jhey would not have so advised his Ma,
jesty, "and.witn -regard to those measures which the
safety of tliecountry, may require, they would,_will
whatever risk it inay induce to themselves, do that
which they deemed most conducive to the stern,
honour, interests of the et...hotly, leaving to the
justice of Parliament treconsider of and deeide ueren.
'the grounds of that justification. .Before he sat down
he begged leave shirt ity to 'observe upon another
,poinhot his Noble Friend's speech, wig, the mode
of proceeding whether preferahle, by B-11 or .A.d-
dresse Orr this. .tread, every consideracon lee had
bee; able to give the subject, in all its views. and
bearings, . he was decidedly of opinion that the
mode of proCeeding- by Bill was by far the most pre-
ferable. Nay, he would go tan her, and •teclare his
firm conviction, and which he. would undertake to
prove when the,regular opportunity should active,
that the precedent of .1788 of the only con-
stitutional mode of proceeding, and that their Lord-
, ships,, with reference to the established, principles of
the Constitution, had no oetion in such circume
stances as the present than to adopt, it.
Lord HOLLAND spoke briefly in explanation.
Earl GitosveN.oa deprecated the delays which had
hitherto taken place in the proceeding-to provide for
the personal exercise of the royal fundions. He
thought other precedents, besides that upon which
so much stress was laid, might`be referred to on an
occasion like the present. He instanced the cases
occurring in the reign of George
.the ,Second, and in
the early part of tile reign. of ,his present. Majesty.
With respect to the precedentof 1788, which pre-
scribed the mode of proceeding by Bill, be saw no
reason to retrad, notwithstandingahe yeats,
the opinions lie then held ; neither did he think,
whets the effeCt of a fiction at 'law was considered,
there was any thing inconsistent or rhiieurous in re-
gularly proceeding by way of Bill.
The- Duke of CLARENCE observed, he should
shortly .trouble their Lordships on-the present OCE3-
sion.' He' was confident they would do him the
justice to behete, that in addition to what he most
feel OD public and' national grounds on the calamity
which unhappily called for the pending discussions;
he was must sensibly affected by considerations of a
private and personal nature. -,He felt himself called
upon by what fell from the Noble Secretary of State,
so decidedly in favour of the precedent of 1788, to
say a few words upon that point. Had he had the
honour of a seat in the House at that flint!, his con.-
dua would have been similar to that of a very
near relative of his on the occasion. '(We believe
H. R H. alluded to the Duke of York.) Since that.
period, however, one great change in particular had
taken plane. Their Lordships had ,since got a new
act of journals; He was the only one of his latni-.

fyt he believed, that had' the pleasure of visiting Ire-
land, and he would recommend their Lordship, to
look over the Journals of the House of Lurds of

that country, and by which they would see whe-
ther it was not the most
_convenient way to vote an
Address to the Prince of \Vides, to, take upon him
the Government of the Country, until it should
please 'Providence, and may it be shortly, to re•
store to his Throne our excellent and beloved Mo-
narch. And he thought that not a tnotnent should
should be lost in restoring to the country its consti-
tutional executive lead.

The Duke of NORFOLK was of opinion that the
conduct adopted by Ministers inexpressibly aggra-
vated their re,porisibilny. With resped to the
much talked of precedent of 1788, his-abjecti'Ats to
that course of proceeding remained in their fall
force; 'but there did exist a precedent which would
well govern their . proceedings., viz. that of 1688,
When the two Howes of -Parliament -wisely resolved'
to addr, ss the Punce and Princess of Orange to
take ~,pon them the royal authority; but in answer
to this, be may be told, that the throne was then
vacant, and that the abdicating Monarch had
thrown himself into the arms of the enemy. True !
but .he would ask, was not the personal exercise of
the rola( functions full as detective no* as then ?
He thought the proceeding by waP of Bill irrecon-
cildble with the plainest principles of the Consti-
tution. He had-heard it was very recently advanced
in that House, that a fourth estate existed in the
realm, viz. the King, the Lords Temporal, the
Lords' Spiritual, and the Commons ; he had bed
this in. the way of report, but it the Lords Spiritual
were meant distinctly, it must be in the way of con-

%Walton.
Earl STANHOPE had-to defend an absent Noble
Friend (Lbria Grenville). What the Noble Duke
Said would be potting nonsense into his mouth. He
had said no such words, but-merely that the Lords
Spiritual and Temporal composed 'that House. The
Noble Earl then animadverted to the mode of pro-
ceeding determined on by Ministers—the incalcu-
lable delays and protracted discussiins it would in-
duce, especially since a Noble Friend had notified
his intention to tuove the previous question upon
second resolution, and his Lordship induced some
risibility by his observing, that was very °ousel
for Ministers to ask Noble Lords at his side of the
House (as last night), wha: they intended to do,
though it. was very customary for the 'Opposition to
ask Ministers what they intended, but perhaps they
no longer considered themselves as Ministers !
Lord Eitssur'ia observed, that it was his general
custom not to deliver his sentiments until tie had
hetrd the various opinions of those who were to dis-
cuss a subject with him. He would therefore re-
serve himself until he heard the :arguments of the
'Noble Earl opposite, in endeavouring to prove that
the only legal and constitutional mode of procecd-
,ing was by Bill. In addition to the various objec-
lions applicable to the precedent of 1789, tUeret was
the consideration of the essential (inference in the
circumstances of that and the present period. He
approved 9f a candid and manly declaraitoo
of sentiments, when ditterence of opinion existed
between those who loved and respected each other :
such was uniformly his practice. He arg-kieci for the
competency of the States of t Ire 'Realm to supply the
defects in the Constitution ; to maintain the con-
trary would be to' layourrevolutionary
bur the mode.which Ministers meant to pursue was,.
among other objectionable priints, censorable as
efbrinine 'clumsy system of machinery, operose in its
progress, instead of the reguar, simple, and direct
_way centended for by those:wtth whom he had-the
honour to,act ; and he conclUded by depreciatieg
every moment of unnecessary delay, as highly
furious to the interests and saiety et the country.
The Earl of LAUbERDALS 'spoke generally in
support of the arguments urged by the Noble Lords
at his side of ,the House, and censured the line of
proe'eedin-g: adopted by Ministers; as productiye of
most iujurious delay, and only
_tor the purpose of
retaining the poWers of
:Government 'a little' longer
in their Wilds; while they seethed totally regardless
of the baneful consequences which ensued. • '
The Earl of DAIINLgY followed on the same side.
and warmly animadverted On the avowal of the
Noble Secretary of State, that lie would,' did wed.-
sion Offer, advise. the Sovereign to adopt the mea-
sures now pursued by his Ministers. He contended
that the precedent of 1788 was materially deviated
from, inasinheb as Mr. Pitt suffered no unnecessaly
delay to take place on that occasion, while a very
contrary line of cendutt was imputable to them, and.
which was injurious to the best interests' of the
country.
The Earl of LivetPoot: then rose to propose,
agreeably to his notice of yesterday, the appoint-
ment of a Committee to search for precedents res-
pecting t 1 admissibility Of proxies under the'pre-
?ent circumstances in which the House ware
placed.
A conversation rather of a aestutory nature took
place, chiefly:if nut entirely, 'upon the wording of
the motion, in which the Earls Stanhope and Fla-
william, Lord Holland, and Marquis of Laos-
dewne, H. IL H. the Duke of Clarence, and one or
two other Peers participated, The result %vas, that
the Noble Secretary of State new modeiled his mo-
tion; which tlseti was for the appointment of an
'open Committee„ to search for precedents as abei,e,
and to report the result of their inquiries to the
House ; +hat all the Lords piesem be members of.
the Committee, and that the Committee du meet
tie-morrow.
The House then adjourned till Satuiday:

HOUSE OP COMMONS.

THURSDAY, DEC. O.

A new Writ was ordered for the B :rough of
Brackl4, in art rootzt Qt. Anthony Hendursoopk.;i9,
,•
deceaieJ: