The Sun.
London, England, 1844-08-10 00:00:00

MERCHANT SEAMEN'S BILL.

,The Duke of BUCCLEUCII and other Lords brought
op, from a conference, the Commons' reasons for dis-
sent to the Lord3' amendments on this Bill.

,Other Peers brought up, from conference, the Com-
mons' agreeMent to the Lords' amendments on the Irish
Fisheries Bill and the Art-Unions Bill.
ADJOURNMENT OF TILE lIOUSE.

Lord qAMITELL begged to ask of the Noble Duke,
or the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack- -

The lIORD CIIANCELLOR—I never answer (pies-
tions.—(Lnugliter.)
Lord CAMPBELL only asked a queqion as to the
adjottvnment-of the House."

. ..—.,-.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—If you ask that ques-
tion it will get up a deba,te.—(A laugh.)
Lord WHARNCLIFFE- said it was his intention to
move the adjournment of the House till the 2d of Sep-
tember. -
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the adjourn•
meneto that day was resolved upon, because Mr. Justice
Fattison, a judge of great learning and experience,
could not be in town before the 28th of AugVai, and the
next earliest day that could be fixed was Monday, the
2d September.
Messengers from the Commons brow gfirt° up the Joint
Stock -Company's Bill, and the Joint-Stock Banks'
Regulations Bill, with their Lordships' amendments
agreed
Theit 'Lordships adjourned at Eight o'Clock till Mon-
da.y, the 2d of September.

•
•1 110 USE OF COMMONS, August 9.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at a Quarter to Four
o'clock.
THE RAJA OF SATTARAH.
A messenger from the East India House appeared at
. the bar with certain correspondence relating to the Raja
of Sattarah.—Ordcrod to lie on the table.
• - ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Sir R. PEEL said—l rise, according to notice, to move
the adjournment of the House. I propose that the
adjournment shall be to a somewhat distant day, and I,
therefore, move that this House, at its rising, do adjourn
till Thursday, the sth of September.
Mr. WEIL said he presumed the Right Hon. Baronet,
..instead of proroguing Parliament, had moved the
441°"F"Dent till that day, in referenco to the

case of Mr. O'Connell. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man had, doubtless, felt that it would be a great
injustice if, six months hence, it should be announced by
the Judges that the imprisonment of Mr. O'Connell bad
been illegal—that he would have been illegally impri-
soned for this long
.period. It seemed to him to follow
as an irresistible inference, that though the injustice
might be less, it would still be most signal, if his impri-
sonment should have continued for three months from
the 30th of last May, and it should appear that the ver-
dict bad been unfairly obtained from a jury both sectarian
and hostile. Under these circumstances he ventured to
submit to the consideration of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man whether, as he had himself admitted that the
matter was one of great importance, and must be treated
as one of no ordinary doubt and of some difficulty—it
would not be the best policy, at all events whether it
would not show more generosity and wisdom, instead of
waiting to ascertain whether the lawyers should have
succeeded in picking the lock of the Richmond Peniten-
tiary, at once to unbar the prison doors and give
back Mr. O'Connell to the Irish people ? Convicted
as he had been by a sectarian jury, he thought
the matter called for consideration. The Right
Honourable Baronet had introduced an Act for re-
gulating the management of Roman Catholic charitable
bequests and donations. He thought the measure a
great improvement on the old system ; it substituted a
much better board of management for the old one ; it
mitigated the old principle of ascendancy. But mark
the Right Hon. Baronet had introduced into that board
five Roman Catholics, and he had done so on the special
grounds that a mixed jury of Catholics and Protestants
ought to administer the charitable bequests in Ireland.
Did it not appear to follow from hence, that in all ques-
tions where the feelings of Catholics and Protestants
were concerned, the jury should be a mixed one ?
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, the Member for the
City of London, had solemnly declared, in his place as
leader of the Opposition, that the trial of Mr. O'Connell
was an unfair one—a declaration from which he had
never receded. That he thought a reason why the subject
should be considered. The Right Hon. Bart. appreciated
fame ; he was sensible of the value of true renown, he
passed every day the statue of Canning, and
looked upon Westminster Abbey, and he must know
that a time would come when his merit in the great
transactions in which he bore so conspicuous a part
would be tried, not by the Members of the old lobby or
the new one, but by a different test—when it should be
said that his great political antagonist, the great leader
of the Catholic people of Ireland, was convicted by a
jury exclusively composed of Protestants, under circum-
stances the most suspicious—when it should be said
that he still by force kept him in gaol, notwithstand-
ing those circumstances. Whatever other materials
the commentator or historian might find in the conduct
of the Right Hon. Baronet for commendation, history in
this particular part of his conduct would pronounce him
guilty of a great contradiction. But he still bad it in
his power to furbish history with a lesson of generosity
and magnanimity, by throwing aside all feelings of vin-
dictiveness, and healing the wound with the same weapon
with which itwas made. What had they gained by Daniel
O'Connell's imprisonment? The proclamation suppressed
the monster meetings : after the verdict the repeal rent
fell ; but from the moment sentence was pronounced the
rent rose, and that great national contribution increased
almost every day in amount. They had put three editors
of newspapers in prison, and at the present moment the
press'was more exciting than ever. The Nation newspaper,
whose editor was imprisoned, circulated eleven thousand
copies ; that paper was written with distinguished ability,
appealing, perhaps, rather too strongly to the spirit
of nationality in the Irish people ; and the Catholic
clergy, those great representatives of the feelings of the
Catholic people, were, almost to a man, against them.
Ireland was said to be tranquil, but he, who knew the
people of Ireland, who was well acquainted, by a pain-
ful experience with their wretched condition, he, who was
interested in the maintenance of the public peace, and
who took no sort of share, direct or indirect, in the agi-
tation pervading Ireland, told them that the state of the
country was not safe ; that there prevailed a deep anti-
pathy towards this country—an antipathy which at all
times was to be deprecated. But they were now placed
in a position which made it matter, he would not say of
alarm, but, at all, events, of deep and meditative forecast,
how they should act towards Ireland. They had taken
a position which he for one commended, which became
them as a great nation to take—which proved
they were determined that England should hold
the noble position she ought to occupy; but he told them
that, possessed of the affections of Ireland, with Ireland
united and reconciled, they would have a far better
muniment than the Martello towers round her coast.

Mr. WYSE said he begged to add a few words to
the energetic appeal made by his Right Hon. Friend to
the House, and through the House to the country. Mr.
O'Connell had not appealed either to the Government or
to that House by petition for the slightest remission of
his sentence; nor had any of the other prisoners; but
the people Of Ireland were deeply impressed with the
belief that tho trial had not been one calculated to vindi-
cate the majesty of the law, or to give a fair and just
means of ascertaining either their guilt or innocence.
The people of Ireland would not forget that
they had been convicted by a jury of twelve
Protestants. But to that House an appeal was
made to investigate the facts connected with that trial,
which the judges on the bench had declared were at least
liable to suspicion, and that appeal was refused by a
majority of that House. He entreated of them, what-
ever their politics or their religion mightthe, not to allow
the impression to go abroad that all justice was to be
denied them. He begged of them to be wise in time,
because the people of Ireland had not worn out their
patience. They came not to that House in the voice of
supplication. They were silent, but they waited only
the time when they could wound England in the hour of
her distress. He implored them not in the language of
terror, but in the voice of advice and warning, that they
would think of the words which they heard from the
representatives of Ireland before they returned to their
homes. He beseeched of them, not with feelings of
anger, but in the spirit of kindness, if they intended to
do anything in the way of conciliation, to do it in time.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that, during the time the late
Administration were in office, it was the custom to dis-
perse throughout the country in the summer and autumn,
a pamphlet purporting to be a speech of Lord Lyndhurst
—(Laughter)—pointing out in what manner the various
Bills had been introduced into Parliament, when they
were adjourned, how often they were postponed, and
which of them had not arrived at the consummation of
becoming Acts of Parliament. He never had considered
that course a just or a fair one. He did not consider it
so in the first place, because the Houses of Parliament
themselves, however well they might be disposed to
consider measures, yet in the course of discussion inter-
posed so many obstacles to their becoming law, that an
Administration could not be justly chargeable with all
the legislative measures which might occur during the
session. He thought it an unfair course, because it was
notorious that one of the Houses of Parliament was
chiefly composed of Members belonging to one political
party. It was notorious that that party, having been in
power during a long period of years, had placed in that
House of Parliament about two hundred Members of
their own party ; and of the four hundred Members
of which that House consisted, about two hundred had
been placed there by the advice of the Ministers of that
party during those years. It was natural that those
who entertained those politics, who had entered into
Parliament with strong prejudices of that kind, should
be adverse to the Ministers of a different political party.
It was not difficult, therefore, for persons who had
authority with that Parliament, to secure the rejection
of Bills, however useful, which were promoted by a
Ministry with whom they did not concur. But no
doubt that mode of proceeding made its impression. It
was considered by many persons that the Ministry
must have failed in its duty when so many of its Bills
had not obtained the sanction of the Legislature.
That course he (Lord J. Russell) had never followed ;
it was not a course which he was then about to follow.
If he were about to do so, he thought that he should
have far more reason to object to the Ministry then in
power. In the first place it was notorious, and had been
proclaimed by themselves, that the present Ministry had
a majority having confidence in their administration in
both Houses of Parliament ; in the next place,
the present Ministry had had the greatest
difficulty placed in the way of their legislation. But he
did not see any public advantage which could be derived
from tracing the history of the different Bills, and point-
ing out that many of them had failed.—(Hear, hear.)
But lie had, at the close of another session, called the
attention of the House when it was about to separate, to
the existing state of the country. _ _

The Uslier of the Black Rod hero summoned the
house to hear the Royal assent given to certain Bills
('or which see Lords' report.)
On the- return of the SPRAKEIt,

Lord JOHN RUSSELL resumed—He said he had
already stated that he thought it might not be without
its use, at the close of the session, to consider what was
the present state of the country, and how they might be
enabled to consult its welfare when they were next
called by her Majesty to meet for the dispatch of busi-
ness. In speaking last year of the affairs of the coun-
try, he had entered at considerable length into the state
of Ireland. His Right llon. Friend, who had spoken
on that occasion had alluded to part of that great sub-
ject. The Right lion. Gentleman, when, in. 1839, he
leas speaking of the formation of a Government under
his auspices, stated, or rather confessed, that his chief
difficulty was Ireland. lie was surprised that with the
exception of one circumstance to which he then alluded
—a circumstance that he considered so trifling, that he
should not then advert to it—the present Government
I , ...
after- that announcement by their head, bad never taken
seriously into -their consideration the state of Ireland,
with a view to its amelioration. It was true, that w hen
last year they were considering this subject, there were
meetings held, and that those meetings no longer took
place ; it was true, that there-was language of menace
used by some of the principal speakers, and that they
did not bear that language at present. But they would
be very much • mistaken indeed if they supposed
the affections of Ireland had been won by the
proceedings which had since taken place. In his view
of the circumstances as they stood last year, he thought
that the Government would have been justified in issuing
a proclamation at the commencement of those meetings
forbidding any further assemblages of the same kind,
and in following up that announcement by a declaration
of their intention to take all The grievances and com-
plaints of Ireland into consideration, with a view
to their adjustment. That Mr. O'Connell would
have obeyed such a proclamation . he thought
they could not doubt, for on the very first occasion on
which the advisers of the Lord Lieutenant thought he
should declare that a meeting was illegal, the declaration
was followed not merely by, instant obedience, nor by
sullen acquiesence, but by :he most active measures for
the prevention of a meeting which had been announced.
He thought, therefore, it was impossible to doubt that if
at the commencement of those meetings a similar course
had been taken, a similar obedience would have
been paid. He confessed that the stoppage of these
meetings, by itself, would hue been almost a useless

measure, it would have been dealing only with the
symptoms of the disease ; but if they had followed up a
measure asserting and vindicating the law by a measure
of conciliation and improvement, they would then have
laid a foundition for theTutureprosperityotlreland. The
course that had been taken, however, was very different.
Mr. O'Connell and otherpopular leaders were allowed to go
on for seven or eight months without interruption, their
language unchecked, their meetings uninterrupted, and
the only declarations which they had had—one from the,
Secretary of State for the Home Department and an-
other from the Lord Chancellor of Ireland—had led him
to the inference, not as a lawyer, but a constitutional
politician, that those meetings were legal. No wonder
that they continued to such an extent as to
menace the peace of the country. At length,
after that six or eight months of impunity, they
were interrupted, and the chief leaders of them
were brought to trial, not for the last of their proceed-
ings, not for any one particular meeting that had just
taken place, nor for any seditious language which had
lately been uttered, but for the whole course of eight or
nine months of a popular agitation, which was qualified
by the legal advisers of the Crown as conspiracy. Such
a proceeding was entirely contrary to that rule which
was laid down with truth and justice by Mr. Erskine in
fiis celebrated defence of Hardy. On that occasion Mr.
Erskine declared that if there were a particular act of a
man's life which was criminal he should be brought to
trial, but that to look at his conduct for two years, and
from that, combined with his conversation, to endeavour
to drag out an imputation of guilt, was not justice but
tyranny. The bringing of these persons to trial
was so contrived that there being eleven Roman
Catholics among the persons who might have
been on the jury; those eleven Catholics were struck out
by the Crown, and there remained a jury of twelve Pro-
testants, several of whom were known to be parti-
zans—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Sheil)—pursuing a line
of politics the opposite of those of Mr. O'Connell.
He would ask, could the internal peace of Ireland be
secured by those means ?—(Hear, hear.) In the first
place, was it just to leave these persons to pursue their
course for eight months without any notice that they
were bringing themselves within the meshes of the law?
—(Hear, hear.) In the next place, having determined
to bring them to trial, was that trial likely to produce
the effect which an impartial trial always produced,
even upon those who were the sufferers from it—
when it was known that the prosecutors had cautiously
excluded from the jury every man who was of the same
religion as Mr. O'Connell—(Hear, hear)—that religion
being the religion of the great majority of the people of
Ireland?—(Hear, hear.) He would not have said any-
thing on this subject if ho had thought the evil beyond
the hope of remedy—if he had thought that Govern-
ment had taken a step Which it was impossible for them to
retrieve.—(Hear' hear.) But he thought that altogether
the Government had been for so long a time ignorant of
the real state of Ireland—(Hear, hear)—or, if not igno-
rant of the real state, at least regardless of the people of
the country.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that he had
•of late observed symptoms, on the part of the Govern-
ment to pay more regard to the feelings of the people of
that country—(Hear, hear)—and he hoped, that before
the next session the Government would fully consider
the question that they would look to the
hopes which had been held out, and to
the promises which had been made at the time
of the union, that Ireland should be placed upon
an equality with England—(Hear, hear)—that she should
be governed upon the same principles—(Hear, hear)—
and should enjoy the same rights and privileges.—
(Cheers.) Let them show to the Irish people that it was
their determination to redeem the pledges given at the
time of the union. Such a plan would not assist the
cause of the repeal of the union ; on the contrary, he
thought it would give a deathblow to that agitation
to give the people of Ireland fully, fairly, sad entirely,
those privileges which they themselves had solemnly
promised to them.—(Cheers.) If such were their deter-
mination, whatever opinion might be given by the House
of Lords, or the Judges, on the judicial questions which
had been placed before them, her Majesty's Government
could exhibit no better symptom of their policy, could give
no better evidence of their intention to carry those en-
larged views into effect, than by using the prerogative of
the Crown for the purpose of at once discharging Mr.
O'Connell and his fellow-prisoners.—(Loud cheers,
which drowned the remainder of the sentence.) Sup-
posing the Government to be legally right as they
said they were, still, as a question of State
policy, no better step could be taken. (Loud
cheers.) It would be well for them to reflect what
view was taken by the people of Ireland with re-
spect to the course of Mr. O'Connell during the last few
years. They should remember that he was the man
who had by great exertions obtained for his fellow-sub-
jects those constitutional rights and privileges which
they now enjoyed, and that he had by those exertions
earned their gratitude and confidence—(" Hear, hear,"
from Mr. Sheil)—which he would continue to enjoy as
long as he lived—(Loud cheers)—that he was
now sixty-nine years of age and must be ap-
proaching to the close of hi s& political career.
They had declared their wish to vindicate the law—the
law had decided in their favour. They should not seek
anything like a vindictive punishment.—(Loud cheers.)
By discharging Mr. O'Connell they would not be show-
ing any weakness; they would not even be deserting the
policy which they themselves had pursued, but they
would be showing to the people of Ireland a disposition to
govern them in a proper spirit. If they wished the
measures which they intended to propose for the benefit
of Ireland to be received favourably, they should not
only. have the laws appearing upon the statute-book,
but they should endeavour, as a matter of paramount
importance, to secure the affections of the Irish people.
—(Cheers.) The opportunity of doing that was now, An
their hands, and although by doing that they would lose
the support of persons who could hardly now be called
their supporters, but who when they first came into
power had supported them in the hope that the oppres-
sions of the olden time might be revived, yet he would
not think so meanly of the Right Hon. Gentleman—he
would not entertain so low an opinion of him as to
imagine that for the sake of their support lie would do
anything that was unjust, or abstain from doing anything
which he thought was just.—(Loud cheers.) Then
with regard to our foreign relations, he knew that was a
delicate subjectZand lie hoped that nothing he should
say would deprive the Government of any means of
negotiation which they had in their hands. The
conduct of those negotiations required the union of great
firmness with great moderation. He did not impute to the
Government that they would be wanting in either of those
qualifications. The utmost exercises of both those quali-
fications was required. He had heard with satisfaction
what had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentlemen with re-
gard to the hostilities in Morocco—that he was inclined
to follow up the policy of the late Government, which,
while it admitted the settlement of France in Algiers,
protested against her being permitted to extend
her possessions either in Tunis or Morocco.
The Right lion. Gentleman had stated that he was
aware that British interests were involved in the welfare
of an ally that had always teen faithful to us, and whose
country bordered on our own possessions. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had also alluded to another subject—a
subject of great importance, which, although it affected
only a small portion of the globe, affected our na-
tional honour. The Right Honourable Gentleman
declared that a gross outrage had been offered to a
British subject, and that he expected the French Go-
vernment would give that reparation which he thought
this country was entitled to require. He would not ask
for a word more en the subject. He was satisfied with
those pledges which when Parliament met again lie
should expect to see fulfilled. But at the same
time, he must say, that with the exception of the
autumn of 1830, just after the French and Belgian revo-
lutions, and the autumn of 1840, just after the opera-
tions in Syria, since the peace of 1815 our foreign re-
lations had never been in a state to require so much
anxiety. But if such were the case, it was
the more necessary that we should have every
element of strength for -the defence of the
country completely at our disposal.—(Cheers.) lie was
not now alluding to the state of the navy, in which he
retained the opinions which he had formerly ex-
pressed, neither was he alluding to the military
forces; but he thought that there was another
element of strength which ought not to be ne-
glected—internal union.— (Loud cheers„) The people of
the three kingdoms ought to he bound together by bonds
of affection, and whatever might be the means used to
obtain that desirable object, no time ought to be lost in
increasing that union—(Cheers)—and in strengthening
that affection—(Cheers)—so as to make this country,
while shs i 3 an object of respect to all men, whose
opinion was worth having in every part of Europe, like-
wise an object of fear to all those ill• disposed spirits who
sought in war a vent to their evil feelings and bad passions.
There was another topic onwshich he wished to say a
few words—that was the condition of the people of Eng-
land. He heard from day to day, and from time to time,
of the inadequate means the people had to support them-
selves. If they took a general view of the subject, it was
impossible not to see that the labouring classes had not
advanced in proportion to other classes. The higher
class and the middle class had increased, but the labour-
ing classes had not done so. Unless the Go-
vernment, next session, should propose some
comprehensive measure, he should feel it
to be his imperative duty to ask the House to consent
to some measure, or to go into a Committee with respect
to the condition of the middle classes. It was no use
attempting to give alms : what they should do was to
do all in their power' to give to the working classes
a fair day's wages for a fair day's work. In the
agricultural districts there had been a great in-
crease of the county rates since the war; in dealing j
with any surplus revenue, he thought the Government
might give the agriculturists relief in this direction.
There was another subject which had been discussed
last session, but had not been brought forward in the
present one by his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member
for Liskeard—that was the question of emigration
There were difficulties connected with this subject, but
he considered with regard to certain localities, that emi-
gration, promoted by the Government, in some
instances, in conjunction with the companies al-
-1 ready formed; in others, in conjunction with the
large proprietors of land, would be of essential service
to the working classes. He trusted this was a subject
which would not escape the attention of her Majesty's
Government ; he did not think that the present system
was all that could be desired on this subject ; much re-
mained still to be done. He had thus mentioned some
of the topics which, in the present state of the country,
he thought were well deserving the consideration
of that House. He had already said he would not refer
to the various measures which had been brought for-
ward during the • present session, a great number of
which had been withdrawn. But there was one sub-
ject which ought not to be omitted from their
consideration—that was, the length of time that
was suffered to elapse at the commencement
of the session without fowarding measures at all,
which were afterwards passed in a greathurry at the end
of it. If the House were to attend ..to measures of Le-
gislation, surely some means might be found of bringing

Sir It. PEEL thought that would be rather'* an um
interesting subject, though he was glad that the Hon,
'Gentleman, who attended so sedulously to his duties,
had laid the foundation of so much agreeable
amusement during the vacation.—(Loud laughter.)
Now, in the first place, he would refer to
the Poor-law Bill. Through the temper. and
ability of his Right Hon. Friend that Bill had been passed
with the concurrence of those who were at first inclined to
oppose it. An important measure had been passed, regu
lating the hours of labour in four great branches of the fac-
tories. With respect to financial matters, it could not
be said that the Ministry had not done all that could be
done : 2,500,0001 had been saved to the country an-
nually, by the reduction of the Three-and-a-Half per
'Cents. That was an honourable and permanent saving.
Then, with respect to the currency, it was to be hoped
that they bad placed it upon a safe and judicious footing
['he Bank Charter Bill had been also passed without any
opposition, and the future regulation of joint-stock banks
had also been placed upon a sound foundation; added to
this, the law had been amended with respect
debtors, and a final blow had also
ototeninsoen sltrvucktagainst
the
imprisonment for debt.
The Government had also passed the Dissenters' Chapels
Bill, which would put an end to endless litigation. A
Bill had been introduced also for the purpose of placing
ipon a proper foundation Presbyterian marriages in
[reland. They had also passed a Bill with respect to
Charitable Donations and Bequests, which he had very
little doubt would be productive of the best results.
These measures, although of less importance, still added
to the aggregate amount of legislation. . Then there had
leen two very important Bills passed, applying the prin-
-iple of prescription to the property of the Duchy of
Cornwall, thus settling questions which had been the
.uhject of litigation for many years, giving the
Duchy tenants a.more permanent interest in their hold-
ings, and promoting, he firmly believed, the permanent
interest of the Duchy itself. Another very im-
portant Bill was that for regulating the con-
struction of buildings in the metropolis. He thought
he. had now, said enough to show that
the statement, with which he set out, was correct—that
there had never been' a session more remarkable for
the amount of useful and beneficial legislation placed
upon record.. If, therefore, the Noble Lord had been
disposed to imitate the example of others, and give a re-
view of -the session, he would have been able to have
given a much more satisfactory account than others had
been able to give of former sessions. The Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite had made a reference to some recent
proceedings in Ireland. Now he (Sir Robert Peel)
would not be provoked into entering upon any dis-
cussion of that subject.— (Hear, hear.) The only
part of the Noble Lord's speech that took the character
of an attack upon the Government, was that in which
he made a reference to these proceedings. He stated that
the Government had given no notice of their intention to
prohibit proceedings which they thoughtdangerous to the
public peace; at length the Government did vindicate the
law, and charged the parties engaged in them with a
conspiracy. The acts from which the evidence of that
conspiracy were to be gathered extending over a period
of several months. And with respect to the law on the
subject of conspiracy, he had no hesitation in stating
that the judgment of the Irish Court 'of Queen's
Bench was unanimous. Mr. Justice Perrin differed
from his brother Judges on some points of-detail, but
on the law of the ease he believed the judgment of the
Court was unanimous. :Ile would not enter into all the
facts connected with those proceedings, or do anything
that would bring on a discussion in which persons were
involved who were absent, and who were now.suffering
the sentence of the law. Whatever advantage, then, the
Noble Lord might derive from his ex park statement,
he would not, on the last day of the session, bring on a
discussion upon the conduct of parties who were absent
from the House. Her Majesty's Government had on
two occasions.determined to issue proclamations against
two several meetings, and it was only rendered unne-
cessary to do so by the intention of holding them being
abandoned. But it was entirely without foundation to
assert that the Government forebore to declare its in-
tentions for the purpose of entrapping the parties into
a violation of the law, and having an opportunity of
collecting evidence of their misconduct. Into other con-
siderations; which had been referred to by the Right
Hon. Gentleman, as to the exercise of the pre-
rogative of the Crown, he should not enter.
Upon them he should feel it his duty to maintain-
an entire silence,—(llear, hear.) Ho .1291414 content

forward those measures during an early part of himself with sayiLg he should consider it utterly un-
the session. Formerly it was the practice to send tip worthy of himself, were he to display any feelings of a
a great number of Bills to the other House at the personal or vindictive character, by which the Right
end of the session, when the Peers could not discuss. Hon. Gentleman had supposed he might be influenced.—
them ; but now the evil was extended to both Houses. (Hear, hear.) But he must also distinctly declare that
So important a measure as the Poor-law Bill was sent he could not admit that there was any wrong committed
up from that House when there was no time for the other which the Government was called on to repair. He
House to consi2er it; but, on the other hand, many mea- distinctly denied that the trial of Mr. O'Connell was
sures had come down from the House of Peers when other than a fair trial.—(Hear, hear.) But as he said
there were scarcely forty Members here to discuss their before, considering the circumstances under which these
provision& Circumstances bad prevented his attending persons were placed, considering their absence from that
the House In the latter part of the session ; but he did I House, and the fact that they were fulfilling the sentence
not think it could be expected, after four or five months' of the law, he would not be provoked into any discussion
attendance in Parliament, Members would remain, in with respect to the proceedings in Ireland that would
order to go minutely into these late measures of legis- render any vindication of the course of the Government
lation. He would say more—he did not think that a necessary with respect to them. The Right Hon. Gen-
very prolonged session was at all advantageous to the tleman had premised that the sole cause of adjourning the
country. He thought that many Members of Parlia- House, instead of proroguing it, was the state of the
ment did more for the advantage of the country by at- appeal on the Irish trials. He could not say that this
tending to local interests than by a late attendance in was the whole truth. There were circumstances to which
that House. He had now concluded his observations, ho need not refer, which would, under any circumstances,
which he had offered, he hoped, in no party spirit and have rendered an adjournment necessary.—(Hear, hear.)
from no party hostility to Hon. Gentlemen opposite. But this he would not hesitate to say, that, seeing the
His views differed from theirs on many subjects, but judges could not pronounce their decision on the points
still there were questions.on which they might agree, which had been referred to them until the latter end of
and by which the interests of the people might be pro- August, being necessarily absent on their circuits,
meted, and he had thought it right to state some of and it being possible that the decision to be
these questions, and the manner in which he thought pronounced by the highest tribunal—the Court
they ought to be treated. of Appeal, might be in favour of those who were suffer-.
A message from the Lords here brought down their ing the sentence of the law, he should certainly have
Lordships' assent to several Bills and amendments. regretted if any course had been taken which would
Sir R. PEER said, that the speech made by the Noble have prevented those parties from having the full bene-
Lord was so divested of party spirit—(Heer, hear)— fit of that possibility. The adjournment, however, was
in his observations he attributed so little of blame to not solely caused by the state of the proceedings in the
the Government, that he (Sir Robert Peel) was Irish State Trials, though hewould not deny that it would
relieved from the necessity of making any ob- be a sufficient cause for resorting to an adjournment in-
servations in reply in a spirit different from stead of a prorogation. The Noble Lord stated that
that which characterised the speech of the Noble Lord. the Government had done nothing for Ireland. Now,
The Noble Lord said he was content to leave the ques- with respect to that point, he had last year stated that
dons connected with the foreign policy of the country, the Government had adopted a most important step in
which were now pending, in the hands of the Govern- the appointment of the Landlord and Tenant Commission.
meat, and he did not call on this occasion for any re- He had then stated the circumstances under which the
newed declarations on the part of her Majesty's Govern- Government had preferred full inquiry to precipate
ment, or seek an expression of opinion which might by legislation. The Hon. Member for Bolton had last
possibility. prejudice their endeavours to maintain year introduced a measure for the regulation of the rela-
peace consistently with the honour and interests of the Lions of landlord and tenant. The Government might
country. In some of the observations made by the have relieved themselves from all responsibility for the
Noble Lord he entirely concurred. He thought that time by passing that Bill ; but the course they took was
there was great public disadvantage in the extreme to appoint a Commission, composed of gentlemen in
length to which the seesion of Parliament extended ; whom the country reposed confidence, for the
their first duty to the public was to perform those duties purpose of making full inquiry on the subject.
which devolved upon them as Members of Parliament, but He thought that was a wiser course than
still there were few Members who had not important du- proceeding at once to legislate upon imperfect
ties connected with the general administration of the law information, and although no enactment had taken place
throughout the country, and their severance from those during the present session, yet, inquiry was proceeding,
duties was attended with great public inconvenience. In on the report of which some legislative enactment might
the writings of Mr. Burke, in reference to the French Re- be grounded for the remedy of these grievances.--
volution, if he recollected right, he depre- (Cheers.) He thought the general course which the
sated a proposition then made to devote a consi- Government had pursued with regard to Ireland was
derable portion of the year to the performance sufficient to demonstrate that recent events had not in-
of legislative duties, and he urged the great inconvenience fluenced the spirit of their legislation. With respect to
which there would be in enjoining upon legislative bo- the Charitable Trusts Bill, he had stated in the debate on
dies a constant attendance to Parliamentary duties ; and that subject the intentions of the Government; he had also
he thought that that portion of time which might be stated that it was the intention of the Government to take
devoted to the performance of local duties would qualify into consideration during the recess the question of educe-
them better for the discharge of theirlegislative functions. tion, for the purpose of devising means to supply the
They were then sitting in the middle of August ; yet deficiency which, be admitted, existed more in the south
it was impossible not to see that in the latter part of the and west of Ireland in lay academical education. The
session there had been a very great economy of public condition of Maynooth had not escaped the attention of
time. He was afraid that the first part of the session the Government. He did not consider that the condition
would be occupied in bringing forward the grievances of that college was satisfactory, and he should apply
which were supposed to have accumulated during the himself to the consideration of that subject, in the hope of
recess. They could not expect that in the early part of remedying those defects and removing those objections
the session the details of legislation would occupy seri- which existed to the course of education there. Al-
ous and continuous attention ; but still he did think though the measure respecting the franchise had not met
that by a prevalent feeling on the part of the Members with the approval of the House, yet the Government had
of that House, and the concurrence of political parties, been actuated by the feeling that Great Britain
they might enable Parliament to separate at an earlier and Ireland ought, as far as possible, to be placed upon
period. He was sure, that no parties could have a greater a footing of equality as regarded their civil rights. In
interest in shortening the duration of the session than the the Municipal Bill they had carried out that principle,
Government ; for it was almost impossible for them, as by placing the municipal franchise in Ireland on the
the Noble Lord must be aware, properly to attend to their same footing on which it was placed in this country. He
executive duties, and to sit in Parliament for six or trusted that what he had said had not been tinctured
seven months in the year and for eight or nine hours a with party spirit—(Hear, hear)--for he should be sorry
day. The attendance of a Minister there was unavoid- if it should lead to a party discussion. No man admitted
able. If he were absent, it was perhaps supposed that or regretted more than he did the existence of a feeling
he was enjoying his ease, when in fact he was attending of jealousy in Ireland with regard to this country, and
to his official duties, for the neglect of which he would be that unfortunate feeling of jealousy, no doubt, tended to
responsible. He was rather sorry to hear the vague in- weaken the strength of the country. But he was not
timations of the Noble Lord with respect to measures 1 the less confident, although he trusted that no case
for improving the condition of the labouring classes. In might arise which would render an appeal to the
the importance of that subject he entirely concurred. people of Ireland necessary.—(Cheers.) But should
Ho could not conceive anything more important than that such a case arise—should a necessity occur for such an
those to whose labours they were so much indebted, and appeal being made—he did not doubt but that the peo-
who constituted, in fact, the stamina of the country, plc of Ireland would unite cordially with the people of
should be in the condition in which they could desire to Great Britain in the support of the Sovereign and her
see them. He should listen attentively to any proposal interests.—(Loud cheers.) The Noble Lord Had not
which might be made for ameliorating their condition, contrasted the condition of the country at former
but he did not wish to encourage the expectation that a periods with its condition at present ; but if they care-
Committee of the whole House could enable the labourer fully considered what was the condition of the country
to obtain a fair day's wages for a fair day's on that day, when they were about to separate for the
work. With respect to the Noble Lord's encourage- recess, with the condition of the country in 1841—
ment to the agricultural interest to expect some if they considered what had recently occurred in
reduction of the malt-tax, and also some reduction in Europe, what was the state of trade and industry—the
the amount of the county expenditure, the Noble House could not but come to the conclusion that such
Lord seemed to admit that those were burdens which a contrast would be favourable, and would show at all
pressed upon agriculture, and, therefore, that there ought events that the strength of the country had increased.—
to be protection to agriculture. (Cheers.) He did not wish to draw that contrast; he
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had always stated that. only wished to show that which he believed to be true—
Sir R. PEEL was very glad to hear it, and he was that with respect to trade, with respect to employment,
glad that the Noble Lord came down to the House at the with respect to the general: condition of the people, they
close of the session to give an assurance to the agricul- might, in separating, entertain feelings of cordial satis-
turists that he did not wish to deprive them of protec- faction at the material improvement which had taken
tion. He did not wish, however, to purchase the good- place in their condition, and at the prospect which was
vill of the agriculturists by giving any assurance with held out to them that that improvement would continue
espect to the malt-tak.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble to advance.—(Loud cheers.)
~aord said he did not intend to take a review of the Mr. BELLEW was rejoiced to find that the Govern-
'gislative measures' of the session, and he (Sir ment intended to legislate on the subject of landlord and
obe a t Peel) had not the slightest doubt that tenant. He also rejoiced to hear the Right Hon. Ba-
he did not take that course because he thought on ronet repeat that night the sentiments to which he had
general, principles'such a course objectionable. But, al- before given utterance on the subject of education. He
though the Noble Lord had not taken that course, he was anxious, that measures on both subjects should be
rentured to say that there never was a session in which carried; but any measure, however good, would lose a
there had been more important and more efficient great portion of its effect in Ireland so long as Mr.
legislation than in the present one. It was trite O'Connell continued in prison. The people of Ireland
that the Ecclesiastical Courts' Bill had been were deeply attached to him—(Cheers)—and were dis-
postponed, because it was stated by its op• gusted by the manner in which he was treated.—
ponents that they were determined it should (Cheers.) The state of Ireland at the present momeut
not pass into law ; but with respect to the general was one of feverish excitement, and the most trifling oc-
.neasures of legislation he re-affirmed that there never was currence must involve them in a state of servile war, and
a session in which the Government had been more sue- lead to spoliation and bloodshed. He believed the Right
cessful in passing measures of importance to the well- Hon. Gentleman would be glad if circumstances arose
being of the country. He must, at the same time, admit to afford him an opportunity of liberating Mr. O'Connell.
that in many of those measures her Majesty's Govern- Lord J. RUSSELL rose to explain. He had not said
meat had received a cordial support uniutluenced by any they could, by legislation ,give to the labouring man a
party feeling from Gentlemen on the other side. Well fair day's wages for a fair day's work directly, but they
now, as the Noble Lord would not, he (Sir R. Peel) would be affording the best means of doing so by re-
would just take a review of the measures which had been moving restrictions which pressed on his means.
passed during the present session. Mr. liUME said he did not think there was a
Mr. HAWES—With the dates of the Bills. man who could say he was satisfied with the state of the

country, whether he considered the ;Ca;
the-agricul-
turists, miners, or any other class of men. The greatest
injury was produced bythe pressure of unequal taxation.
He thought that this could be ameliorated by legislation.
He was of opinion that the condition of the people might
be improved by removing the restrictions which pressed
upon industry. If the Right Hon. Baronet would only
follow out his own principle, and take off the duties on
all raw material, the country would soon be placed in a
state of prosperity. lie was never more surprised than
when he heard the Right Hon. Baronet say that Mr.
O'Connell had had a fair trial. He believed that not only
in this country, but in all other countries to which the ac-
count had been carried, a different opinion prevailed, and
that the conviction was, that he had not had a fair trial.—
(Hear, hear.) He gave the Right Hon. Baronet all cre-
dit for the spirit by which his legislation towards Ireland
had been directed for the last six weeks.—(Hear.) It was
altogether different from that which had been manifested
at the beginning of the session. He hoped that the Right
Hon. Gentleman would not depart from the spirit which
he had exhibited, and he was sure he would himself be
the first to perceive the benefits of his altered legislation
for Ireland.
Mr. COCHRANE regretted that the Right Hon.
Baronet had held out no hopes of any further alteration
in the New Poor Jaw Bill. The Right Hon. Baronet had
been successful in his commercial measures, but he (Mr.
Cochrane) would remind him of the sentiment of the
poet—
" How many limits stand,,,
Between a wealthy and a happy land."
He thought that a measure ought to be introduced, and,
if no one else did so he would introduce such a measure,
to regulate the price of wages. Ile hoped to do so next
session, for he believed this would be a great element in
the happiness of the people.
Mr. VILLIERS would recommend the Hon. Member
for Bridport to study, during the recess, the subject of
restrictive duties. He (Mr. Villiers) had merely risen
to express his dissent from an opinion that had been ex-
pressed by the Right Hon. Gentleman and concurred in
by the Noble Lord, that there were particular burdens
on agriculture. He defied any person to prove this.
The Right Hon. Baronet had only mentioned two bur-
dens—the county-rate and the malt-tax.
Lord STANLEY—The poor-rate.
Mr. VILLIERS said that was not mentioned, be-
cause, of course, the lower the price of food in the
country, the less would be the amount of the poor-rates.
The fact was the great cause of dissatisfaction was the
high rents. The Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln
said the farmers were not discontented—(" Hear, hear,"
from Colonel Sihthorp)—but the farmers were exceed-
ingly discontented at the continual meddling with the
corn-laws in that House.—(Hear, hear, from the
Ministerial benches.) Yes, dissatisfied because some
permanent legislative measure had not been introduced
which would guarantee to the starving agriculturist a
fair price for his corn, and at the same time enable the
consumer to purchase it.—(Hear, hear, from the Oppo-
sition.) He thanked the Noble Lord for the expression
of his opinion on the subject of the corn-laws which he
had given" that evening, and for his determination to
agitate that question.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Colonel SIBTHORP said he felt perfectly satisfied
with the conduct of the Government, and thought they
had conferred more benefit on the country during the
present session than the Whigs had during the ten years
they were in office.—(Laughter.) He was not more
rejoiced at any circumstance than in witnessing the de-
cline and fall of the Anti-Corn-law League, and he
thought their agitation had now been all but crushed,
and they would soon have nothing to look at but empty
lockers.—(Laughter.)
Lord ELRTICGTON said it certainly was somewhat
strange to see the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln
express such entire confidence in the present Ministry,
though he had opposed them on the Dissenters' Chapels
Bill, the Factories Bill, and the Sugar Duties Bill.
It was then agreed that the House,at its rising, should
adjourn until Thursday, the sth day of September.
DOMINICA.
Mr. HAWES put a question to Lord Stanley re-
garding the recent riots in Dominica, as to what intel-
ligence he had received concerning them, and whether it
was the intention of the Government to enforce the law
against all those in custody, 80 or 90 individuals. He
believed the riots had occurred through a misapprehen-
sion.of the native population in the objects of the Go-
v.ernment by taking the census. He complained of the
mote 914th*Isteriug justice in that islwiid, where it was