The Sun.
London, England, 1819-03-10 00:00:00

GALWAY TOWN ELECTION.

Mr. PEEL said, that as the Sheriff of the Town of Galway,
whOse presence would he requisite before the Committee to
try the Petitions with regard to the last Election fur Galway,
in order to certify to the return, must necessarily attend the
Assizes for Galway, which were fixed for the 26th instant, it
would 1)5 inconeraicut to hare the Committee appointed on
the ltfth, as at present ordered. Ile should, therefore, move
the discharge of that Order, with a view to propose its post-
ponement, until the 4th of May.
After a few words from the SPEAItER and Mr. C. W.
WYNN, the Order was occordiriKly discharged, and the 4th
of May was fixed for the balloting of a Committee to try the
merits of the last Eltetion for Galway.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS' ACT.

Mr. BROUGHAM presented a Petition from the Merchants
and Tradesmen of the City of Westminster against the Insol-
vent Debtors' Act. The Petition, he stated, had enumerated
the various instances in which the present Act exposed the
fair trader to the imposition of the artful and designing. Its
details certainly required revision. A Court, in his Opinion,
of the nature of the Insolvent Debtors', should undoubtedly
exist. Some correction ought to be made in its mode of
practice, and a strict account of the receipts of the assignee
should be required at stated periods. The most appropriate
mode of examining the subject be considered 'would be in a
Committee, to which he suggested it would be necessary in
the first instance the several Petitions relative to this subject
should he referred:

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL assured the House, it never
had been tke intention of his Learned Friend (the :thiirney-
General) to move for a renewal of the Bill in its present
shape. It however was now generally admitted, that to re-
tain a Bill similar in principle to the present was extremely
desirable. His Hon. and Learned Friend had resolved to let
no npportunity escape in the Committee, of pointing out
clauses and precautions which would more effectually secure
the commercial public from the practice of fraud and de-
ception.

Mr. Aldormaia WMTHMAN Impel% that when a Commit-
tee should he moved for, the greater proportion would he
appointed from amongst commercial and practical men, as
the majority of persons in that tionse were altogether unac-
quainted with the arts which were daily practised with a view
to defraud Creditors.

The Petition was read, and laid on the table.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, he had to present another Petition,
of a very different character, upon the same subject. The
Petitioners were persons confined in the Castle of Lancaster
for debt. Their Petition, however, was marked hyspeculiar
moderation in its statements, admissions, and prayer, ,ad-
mitting the present had frequently been the too successful
shield of contemplated fraud upon honest creditors. The
Petitioners, however, earnestly prayed the principle might
not be abandoned, hut that an amended 13111 might be intto-
duced this Session.—Read and laid on the table.
He then presented a Petition to the same effect from the
Debtors confined in the King's Bench. In addition to the
prayer of the forester, it contained a statement, shelving that
an exaggerated calculation of the amount of debts returned
in the schedules of persons petitioning to be released bad nn-
fortunately beets too generally entertained by persons who
were not aware of the disposition of debtors to overvalue
their effects, credits, &c. in-their schedules, whereby diffe-
rent descriptions of pruperty were valued two or three times
over. In offering this Petition to the House, be could not
avoid alluding to the statement made by the Hon. Baronet
(Sir J.Geaham) in presenting the Petition from Marir-le-bone
on the subject. He could nut imagine it possible that fourteen
or fifteen hundred persons signing that Petition could ail
have been personally losers by. this Act subsequent to the
passing of the Act.
Sir JA M ES GRAHAM had been assured by the'subseribers
to that Petition), that they had each suffered personally by
this Act. Scandalous deception and fraud had been resorted
to very generally, and the law itself had appointed a general
or provisional assignee four all cases coming before that Court.
Tue ATTORNEY-GENERAL regretted the Hon. Baronet
should have been so misinformed. The Clerk of the Court
had been appointed provisional assignee, it was true, but he
only continued so until the creditors appointed their own.—
The most beneficial results had followed the appointment of
a Rn.yeiver under the Act, through whom 15,0001. had been
or was ready to be delivered to the assignees. The creditors
themselves declaimed in this instance against the Act, whilst
the remedy, as in many other cases, rested with themselves.
The practice of this Court had been very closely assimilated
throughout to that of the Court of Chancery.. •
Mr. BROUGHAM deprecated further discussion en this
subject in this stage of its investigation. The evil and the
remedy would be discussed with most advantage in a Com-
mittee. Great ferment had already been created amongst per-
sons Ili trade, and extreme alarm amongst confined debtors, for
Which reason he thought the safest; as well as shortest, way
to canvass tine merits of the question would be in a Com-
mittee.

Mr. GEORGE LAMB, in a maiden speech, was against any
rancorous hostility to debtors in general. But while he de-
clared his wishes to act upon principles of humanity and fair
dealing between debtor•and creditor, be was anxious, for the
sift isfaction of the honest men of both descriptions, that the
Bill should be rendered as perfect as possible. He knew that
the honest but too credulous creditor was liable to many
frauds, but he was fully persuaded that such amendments
might be adopted as would render it far less exceptionable.—
The Hon. Member was listened. to with much attention, and
once or twice cheered.-

The Petition was reccira, read, and ordered to lie on the

PENItYN ELECTION.
Sir C. BUR ELL rose to draw the attention of the House
to the state of the proceedings on the Report of the Penryn
Election Committee. It bad been suggested to him, that the
best war of proceetlin in this 04.3i/unlit be, to introduce a
with reference to the 'C'Omidisint of bribery and corrup-
tion by the Committee; and, upon the second reading of the
hill, admit the parties accused to defend themselves at the
Bar of the House, or in such manner as they should propose
to themselves as the safest and most effectual. lie should,
preparatorily to moving for leave to bring in such a Bill,
move the following Resolutions :
" That it appears to the House, that most notorious and
infamous bribery and corruption has taken place in the case
of the last Election for Penryit ; and further, that such hi-
st:on:es of bribery and corruption ark. not new or casual in
that Borough, a similar instonce having been brought before
the House iu the year 1807, as appeared by the Report of the
Committee appointed to try the case of John Trevaunyon,
Esq. and others.
" That it also appears to the House that these instances of
biihery and corruption require the must serious consideration
of Parliament."

suzgested the propriety of the Honourable
Raijon.lK fret moving the ()Mc,. of the Day, as the !notion
JS it II(M stood 911011.141 he withdrawn, which suggestion was
agrv,.l to by the llonourable Ilarohet. The motion Was
tutu withdtawn, and the above Resulations agreed to ult-
anioomsly.

Lae was then 'rit•rri tq bring in a Dill to prevent

f attire bribery and corruption in Elections for the Borough
of Punryn.
Mr. W. WYNN moved that the Minutes of Evidence on the
Election fur Penryn in 1807 be reprint-ed.—Ordered.
AMENDMENT OF THE GAME LA\VS.

, Mr. BRAND, pursuant to notice, rose to move
I for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Laws for
the Preservation of Game. ljkese laws, he
felt justified in statitigi effecter the best and
smuttiest part of the population. If any mode
could be 'established, calculated to secure the pro-
perty in game, at the same time that it was re-
lieved from the mischievous effects of the present
system, he trusted it would be viewed with the
most favourable eye by that House. He had
not with him the return of the number of per-
sons committed to prison under offences against
these Laws. Last Session such return was
moved fur; a great delay had taken place in pre-
paring it ; it was now ready, and he had inspect-
ed it ; and he must say, its correctness did not com-
pensate for the tardiness in itsproduction. if it were
a problem, in what way most efficaciously to de-
moralize a country, he would refer the inquirer to
the operation of these laws Take as art offence
a habit, with nothing of moral turpitude in its
commission ; let the population of the country be
attached to the pursuit ; let its influence be of a
nature to influence the most active and energetic
portion of the people; let the property of the
country so act as to bribe and encourage its coin- '
mission ; have annually in your prisons from 1000
to 1500 persons under this charge, there to con-
tract all the contagious and profligate habits of a
prison association ; and will any man deny, that
such a system of proceeding could fail at length
to demoralize a very great proportion of the
soundest part of your population )—The Hon.
Gentleman then reviewed the Game Laws as they
successively passed, and referred to Coke's Insti-
tutes as to the specific property in Game. He
was ready to admit that Game was property, and,
as property, it ought to be sold in the same way
as sheep and other agricultural property were dis-
posed of. The only difference he should intro-
duce in his Bill, if he' was allowed to bring
one in, was that he would make it the property
of the person on whose ground it was found.
—He knew that a very great difficulty pre-
-1 sented itself in the attempt to, overcome the
habits of those persons amongst the lower classes
who practised continued depredations on that spe-
cies of property. He did trust that when the en-
couragements of the present system were remov-
ed—when such men were from clay to day brought
to see that it was considered in the same view as
every other description of property, from the very
association of ideas a more moral conception on
the subject would prevail amongst them. They
would be checked also by the absence of that
illusion which now .existed, namely, the high
price which the present system gave to the pro-
perty which they obtained by depredation. He
was aware of the objection that would be made
to this proposition, inasmuch as though it might I
be easy to preserve the property in game on large
estates, it would be most difficult on small allot-
ments. Yet in France game was disposed of like
all other property, and in that country property
Might he-said to be infinitely divisible. He felt
the difficulty of legislating on that part of the
subject which adverted to Royal practices and
free warrens. It was, therefore, his intention to
except these, as he had no-wish to disturb any
acknowledged real right. He had brought for-
ward the subject under no .pruniency of legisla-
tion—he felt it to be the duty of that House to
follow the public opinion on such subjects.
Under that impression, he had consulted the best
informed persons on the subject, and the mea-
sure he was about to propose was, he could t,-.lte
upon himself to say, in conformity with the opi-
nions of some of the most enlightened and dis-
creet men in the country. He should therefore
more for leave to bring in a Bill, to amend the
Laws that related to the Preservation of Game.

Sir JOHN SHELLEY stated it as his opinion, that
the consequence of the proposed measure would
be, to drive Gentlemen from their residences in
the country, and consequently to increase most
considerably the burden of ;he poor? rates. Such
trsults would be felt from one end of the island
to the other.

Mr. 13as:itEs maintained, that the measure pro-
posed by the Hon. Gentleman would not have the
tendency of preventing the lower orders from com-
mitting those depredations on the Game which
were now so frequent ; but that, on the cbntrary,
it would increase the existing demoralization of
those classes of the community. He strongly de-
precated every proceeding calculated to diminish
that which, next to the Constitution,distingnished
us from the continental nations; namely, the resi-'
dence of the Gentry in the country among their te-
nantry. If any thing were to happen to disgust them,
and induce t hem no longer to reside on their estates,
such a circumstance would do more mischief than
ten thousand times that which the lion. Gentle-
man's Bill went to remedy. He did not exactly
know what the Hon. Gentleman meant by say-
ing, that the system ought to be made conform-
able to the law of nature. We were in a state
in which it .ryas necessary to look at the inte-
rests of society as distinguished front those of na-
tore. The lower classes of the people ought to
be directed to other objects than hunting and fish-
ing ; and however paradoxical it might sound,
be was persuaded that the restraints on those pur-
suits were more to their advantage than to that
of their superiors. He did not conceive that call-
ing Game property would diminish the disposi-
tion to take it. The proposed measure would, in
his opinion, have no other effect than to disturb
the existing system, which, though not perfect,
was much better than any project he had ever
known recommended as a substitute for it'; and
the House should recollect, that when once a sys-
ten► was (newl bed, it was sometimes impossible
to restore it.

Mr. Ct.:mew observed, that not merely the
lower ranks of the community, but a great class
of the must respectable inhabitants of the country,
viewed the Game Laws with detestation. If leis
Honourable Friend's proposition were carried into
effect, every man who had property in the country
would have a direct interest in the preservation of
Game. From the moment of the passing of the
Act, he was a1,,0 persuaded that to take Game
would be considered a theft and disgraceful. The
exiting Gann Law; were SO Citil'Ais to tyranni,cul,

so
al; otsht
the
lye
oto u the
htisup,lon ofg
s ,
desirous
e r the
t Britisht C•n
to
be tolerated.
MeIVIIHrb.
et; F.
forL Egco w Inst. e was
Cstlue that
land should not be induced to leave their
residences, but it appeared to him that his HT _
Friend's Bill was calculated to secure that.
~rnt
able object, since it gave to all owners 01
Castle, l.t e Gentryasitlet tl g; titud°St
ul Ong,
gn.:
la d
full, absolute, and undisturbed possession "61
enjoyment of it. The- Honourable Gentlett!i;
argued at considerable length in favour of
measure.
Leave was then given to bring in she Bill.
EXCISE INFORMATIONS.
Mr. D. W. Har.vev would have
motion of which he had given notice for
ssej
night, in consequence of the intention exPre
by an Houourable and Learned 'Gentleman °PA.
site (the Attorney-General) to oppose it, bfit
to
not considered its importance to he ton glee
wir
allow his private feelings to prevail over IA&
lic duty. His motioa should be ,s for enn7444
count of the number of Informations filed ~4"cio
Court of Exchequer on the Custom and
withdrawn:ll:i:
It
Laws, between the Ist of January, IBIS, of
Ist of Janndry, 1819 and also of the rff9t,
each Information, distinguishing those Whld-coars
been settled by verdict from those settled bllicisor
forr iie,iro
omisiea,ndseocfutto
hiencso.sts received by the
thePr criodsavini theby tc1:1:10efl-ibifie;
tive amounts paid by
fendants." He bad originally intended t
the returns of seven years, but had 111,41,1i7 trot'
extent of his motion, in consequence 01 c
hle and expence which such comprellen„s4:l wee"
counts would occasion. His object w",t 'eV
fold. He wished first to show what e""T; hod"'
pences the Revenue incurred every Yeilr„,77f thief
tilting such Informations. Secondly, fisas
were attended with the.most serious and in,ieslifs
sible expellees to the defendants ; and. '.cots. 114
that their effect was to throw an almost
burthen of unjust expenses upon the ;,€Ol.
body of defendants who had been Pr°ll,,°.-;:aso'
innocent by a verdict' of the Court• 'l4 A
plain his meaning more fully, he should' sloaall
a few cases, which had not arisen as oecas. fair
exceptions, but might be considered Chat of
samples of the whole. The first wt's mers•
a respectable and long-established loond°ll,,rsnce,
chant, who, through motives of pure bcoavo°
had advanced 10001. to a ruined tradesina:l„ti.ole...
up a small shop in the tea and coffee retail that
He received no other interest for his snolleLost
the regular five per cent, and the gr36"pfe.e ,b 54
which a good deed naturally prodnees• „a
besides allowed the business to be carried
his own name. This bad continued till 8A into
strict but proper inquiry .d been i„stitnueu -04
a system
. of fraud
injury of the Revenue and of the Consul:ifs,
An information had then been filed agaihsitticif a
the first charge of his having ever cog° „,r. fog'
crime against the Revenue of the Cou'ilt"' '
th 4
practised 17 ted_dealerSo t°ol._
having in his possession a vegetable nov",c;„r'asea
sale of which was prohibited only to the -le, fit'
deders in tea and coffee, on account of t'-otts..
cility with which it could be imposed urr„arreii
tomers for the latter.penalty thus Te., aisr-
was 1001. When he had recovered froill;t,„,ils..
sooners
be presented a memorial he LAI"—
tooners of Excise, stating all the partiodars
his case, and that he was in no wise imptiedted
the retail trade its question than as the lenj.ea-e be
cle-r
est
o ihg
10001. to aid an unfortunate man. He c
that the vegetable !sootier had been .found ;4g. •
possession of that person, but that he had neibs
understood its sale was an infringement °f
laws, and requested that all parties -should be is
noosed before the Commissioners ok
be heard upon oath, and then have their InTtialc
ment apportioned as the Board tnighL ;13
proper. To That, no other answer lis°l 'l%lO
turned than a printed circular, stating, tha be Ste
Board never caused any prosecution t°,%
stittoed sinless the defendant was guilty 01 nv-o.scs•-
r •
fence against the laws, they never 11,11Jidare:
sedition to be declined unless the d"ept E of"
should offer a compromise with the 10)71111.Y ses
the costs. The individual in question "00S---
neared his application, and offered' to paY''' 1.01,
'[his was rejected, hut it was intimated "'Allot&
that it lie would pay SO/. and the costs, "a-piles
be freed from any torther prosecution. ""; ts.•
inquired what might be the amount of 110 sic-as
and was told that even at that stage of t•ile,b:isssa
ness there was not less than 501 or 601. s°
would have to pay 90/. as a great favour to Vr,
rid of 1001.. Under these circumstances he etirt,
ferred going to trial, not by defending
but by felling the Crowe' to make its own 43ct,c
Having thus got to the Court of Exchequer de
(Mr. II.) should make some remarks on the nl%l
of conducting causes in that Court. %VII° cre?
be plainer than the case to which he bad all°.",cas.
All that devolved on the course for the pr''"ibo'
lion was to explain the particulars, refer ilanosa
Act of Parliament, and bring forward one
Yet would the House believe that five of l°-:.satt •
learned and experienced Counsel -were-ofrBl,-
the part of the Crown ? A Special Jury W4l-altisit
provided, as they were always in similar cssf;'fiare
that with the expence of five Counsel, the
briefs, the Solicitor, it nesses, informers, 8u
w -t
the special Jury themselves, of whom, it icasol
seventeen attended regularly, the whole c6itild 510834
amount to less than 1501. This affecit4
only the revenue but iudividuals theasselyesci
For if the Crown had five Counsel they Must cfi-o;
ploy an equal number,- but where could thltYLiss
equal talent ? He stated a case where the r'in
bad been different, and where the informationk:
stead of being founded on guilt,hadbeen filed l'i-ar;
ly, and from the most malicious motives Oo par
of the informer. A man of the lowest descriP"-st
set tip as a table beer brewei• in an obscure Poe
of London, and repairing to shops, where t
business was chiefly conducted by appeeotsCe;
purchased molasses-and treacle, for the solenen
which to a licence(' brewer, the law order°
natty of 5001. to be levied. Pretending to liars
no money about him, he told the apprentiecs d
come to his house to be paid. They did 1 ° 11.71
received the money. He then immediatelY
formed against their masters to recover Ore P
unity for haying 7,501 d molasses and treacle ow
licensed brewer, OW the ground that they c"
not be ignorant of his being one, since their i;
prentices had come to his house for the Wig]

h;

0

'll
fay ~
The

ion,

;or.
31.1
no•

'Sir
111(ff
804
i 1641
Olt

oFll,tnust have seen the beer casks abOnt. the
• I.tiegsaeictirsct.zl(itost,n an information had been filed
on la
petitioned the Commissioners
(j.n vain• His house was daily beset with Excise
l'st who urged him to compromise the case
Instead of going to trial, r a for their' is not
s
1,71 v 14uteet the Revenue, but to aggrandize the-
te;iefiBerl,ll the
ruins of others. The individual mthus
°fret eelto pay 1501. but that was reject-
He then screwed op his courage to come
'e'r 0 Court, where he also found five Connsel in
ltia against ; but by the able assistance of
"o.when the wretch who had informed came
" the witness box, and was cross•examined, the
h°lesystern was exoosed, and the Jury found a
Ijrdirt for the defei;dant. The last case lie should
by a was one which lied been transmitted to bins
of most respectable Solicitor and Alderman
;'"lebester. A mariner named Underwood,
6e, ;"1!"g Hear that town, had a smack called the
'went, with which he used to carry oysters,
1-41(` egmduct over those perilous coasts ships that
Butte out of their course. He had incurred
17e, deadly hatred of a notorious smuggler in the
eulitY, who had sworn his destruction. It hap-
penedin , one day that the smuggler was at sea, and
°anger of perishing, when he saw the smack of
.
nderwood, and requested that he would send his
t anti two men to take hint safe to shore.—
ith the generosity of a British seaman, Under-
dinund sent his boat, and relieved his enemy ; he
"i go himself, but seta two of his men. The
171ibuggler conveyed certain' contraband goods in
a' boat thus sent to his assistance, which it was
selllnssible that Underwood should know, and
.len the latter returned to port, his vessel was
4.12, ed at the instigatian of the smuggler. liiste
rd
v,:til4Ylug the case before a Magistrate, two ilifor-
`Pnl were filed against the unfortunate Under-
v-n",: One, for the purpose of condemning the
I,:sei, and the other to recover the penalty of the
th-ud given by every ship-owner, as a security
tti"ial he will not engage in contraband. The put-
for the amount of the bond could only follow
c"lidentnation of the vessels, but yet the two
vtinrolations were filed at once. When the case
ruer before the Court of Exchequer, the whole
14 4-1l,'"" to have been a predetermined system
tt Inost notorious contrivance. The informer
convicted of being a most confit rued smug.-
aml the Jury gave a verdict for the clefen-
-14 t-• After a vain attempt to seduce him to enter
ftl.° a compromise with respect to the second ii
Mrich must have dropped at once with
lyttl"4isis" of the first, the Counsel for the Crown
dle clef tile Record. But the consequence of
lit (eti► ence and triumph of the poor mall was,
had to pay expences to the amount of
Ittio„ada the only solace given him was, that he
satel prosecute the smuggler for perjury. When
Par; ‘vere the abuses of informations,. it was lin-
lralaelit t:/ ascertain to what extent the principle
Tlle{l. The facts which lie bad stated chal-
et' ltivestivation : the injured parties sought
bit ;1.11 it now only remained for him to express
land4ret that the subject had not fallen into
tor 0-ea Lore able to do it justice. He theft moved
41r
mentioned at the commencement
de
the It tech.O,OI7TToRNEY-GENIIRAL said, he did not think
44r dhave opposed the motion, if it were not
The Re sPeech with which it was accompanied.—
tsslo Gentleman had attacked the
Com-
44kti,iersers of tire Excise, the Solicitor of the
e• }t
-and the humble individual who then had
• per4°,llr to address the House (the Attorney-
.:4ktin?' He had stated, that prosecutions were
tt h-nd carried on in the Court of Exchequer
base to benefit the public, but for the pur-
-444— iudividuals with costs. But lie (the
ne)cGenera) had conducted the prosecutions
ltin.4qt Court fur the last four years, and if the
;er en el:itilenten intended to insinuate, that he had
,C°nNt r,,‘"nered the costs, not on his own account,
ut 1, --e°lnit of any one—if he meant to state,
had any other view io carrying on
tars.
• ' seeutions but for the protection of the
4ters. e arid the public from the frauds of smug-
!i. that of relieving individuals under pe-
exrcit
44 re the Instances—or compromising, in cases
n Penalty was heavy, lie was actuated by
to tth li.tuel.motti4 than the public good, he most
bef
, *hi ore that House, and he called his God
it:lerlinp:i'istt3tthe truth of that declaration, that such
char I°ll was false.—(Hear, bear !)—These
yo4lightf• gel of such a nature as should not be
mere ~ni'eard in the British Houseof Commons,
kht CverY thing that occurred went forth, as
e'4,l:""earr: I,)e the case, to the world—(Loud cries
!)--•unless they. were founded on
hinsiltves°tflore than vague conjecture. The Hon.
el." (the a Professional man ; but he had surprised
elf." Atio
tl‘e wh. rney-General) that night, by a de-i
klin,;'l, Non 'eh was contrary both to the law am
:.(1 be ation. He had said, that these causes
1-41).11vateilriee'l either before the local Magistrates
tl►inHe rby the Commissioners of the Ex-
Neoul,l hweuld be glad to know by what 1,%
lleth'er e dwke ? If a man is prosecuted as the
If% ti a shiP en ledin a contraband trade,
shetiY thin prosecuted in the Court of Exchequer..
lei, (!our.g 'vat -seized, it must be recovered in
llja`.e(l eti `• The person from whom it had been
Irtfilstyttula into that Court for redress, and his
iititttlatioAttorney-(3eneral was bound to Me an
14,:ere w..n. upon which the Court proceeded."—
et '6
tth, ted,,,,,nMber point to which the Hon. Gent.
oaq_loand informations. He seemed to
!no iv. with those which were called ex
._get 'corinations but they were totally dis-
laetli) an(l the te-e_in former were no other than the
ht..4ter d_iwnleh the Crown brought actions to
a_'°ll3. If he (the Attorney-General)
tirttliis.htt: action to recover a debt, he should,
to., %%lie,. rnethe , A. or 8., complain to the Court,
" Crown brought an action, in
"19:lie"ee of its V j• •
5111,t1t dignity and authority, it
Iv 'en the Court by the Attorney-General ;
Here e:erni(lB( he done, unless frauds, such as
eatte allowY 14'1 Practised against the revenue,
y e( to go un
punished. He would riot
innsn's es were never made in Crown pro-
th:rnSerrlict
otec toile time lot bad
s had for the defendants; but
ete otions, the ye- 1' carried
. on these
ton
01 +(nets given against the Crown
ed" d"oht in the hundred. Wherever the
)7sw etiteri. •
hoed the
t. dine(' by the Jury, be al-
(ln•wbt, eiendant to have the benefit of
4"
°ft" allowed such doubt to ape-

thte it% his favour where he wall well convinced
in Lis own mind a verdict should be had for the
Crown: By a law of George the First, a writ;of
Habeas was to be issued by the Barons of the
Exchequer to seize the person of the' man against
whom information was laid, yet not one writ of
this kind had been ever issued without an affidavit
having beena.previonsly filed in corroboration of
the information, and sworn before one of the Ba-
rons. Unless some severity ond strictness was
exercised in the discharge of the lows against
sinugglers, it was probable the revenue would be
destroyed, for there was nothing in the power of
human ingennir y which was not done to elude them.
The Hon. Gentleman had quoted two or three
cases. The fin st was one in which the health of the
lowerorders,who were the consumers,as well as the
revenue, was at stake. And in no prosecutions
was he so anxious to convict as in instances like
that adduced by the Honourable Gentleman. It
was true the expellees were peat ; but a person
should only be the more careful not to incur them.
In this case, a man who only lent his name and
his money to another, was prosecuted for selling
vegetable powder ; the penalty was one hundred
pounds, and because he pleaded his ignorance of
the transaction, it was compromised on his paying
thirty, and indemnifying the Crown. Another
was that of a small brewer. Those small
brewers were in the habit of giving, as their
daily beverage to the people, the most de-
leterions mixture. The great and respect-
able houses were injured by this practice, be-
cause, when they furnished good and wholesome
liquor to the retailers, those small brewers fin--
Dished them with this mixture, which was min-
gled with the good, and both were sold to the un-
fortunate consumer under the name of the re-
spectable house. The third case was that of a ten-
dealer. He was prosecuted for two offences, sell-
ing adulterated tea, and vegetable powder for cof-
fee. And here he .(the Attorney-General) felt call-
ed to say, that in no instance where the article
was seized and produced, was there ever a verdict
given against the Crown. In this case the tea-
dealer was acquitted on the charge respecting
the tea, because the Jury did not believe the evi-
dence for the Crown ; but he was found guilty
of selling vegetable powder for coffee, because the
article itself had been fortunately produced in
Court, and the Jury could judge by their own or-
gans of vision. The Hon. Gentleman objected to
the number of Counsel employed. There were
five Counsel, the Attorney and Solicitor-General,
two King's Counsel, and a Junior Counsel. Nei-
ther he nor his Right Hon. and Learned Friend
could be always in the Court of Exchequer. It
was therefore necessary that tire Crown should
have learned anri able men in that Court to carry
on these prosecutions in their absence. With
respect to compromising, he assured the House
that he often wished he had discretionary powers
in this respect ; for nothing could be more diffi-
cult, where the penalty was heavy, than to affix
that which should be exacted, so that it should
have the effect of punishment, and yet stop slaort
of ruin. It was often his misfortune to be ob-
liged to prosecute a poor wretch for whom his
heart ached. In such a case he always endea-
voured to find out who was behind the curtain,
that he might, as he could not reach him, so pro-
portion the penalty, that the merciless master
might not allow the miserable instrument to go
to jail for it.
Mr. Waernmasi regretted that the Learned At-
torney-General had said nothing of the expence
attending these informations. The House had
been considering the Penal Laws, the Criminal
Laws, and the Insolvent Debtors' Laws, and this
was a part of the same system.—He was de-
cidedly. of opinions, that those persons who were
connected with the Excise and the Customs were
the last who would he for amending these laws,
because that moment their ettioludients would
cease. He knew nothing of the case which the
Hon. Gentleman had stated ; but he knew that
the expenses in all such cases were enormous,
perhaps six times the amount of the penalty.-
the alleged abuses existed, no man could have
the face to oppose the production of the accounts
called for; and, if they did not exist, let the Ac-
counts be shown, in order that the Government
might be vindicated.
MI:TIERNIEY had never heard a more strong,
distinct, and perspicuous statement, than that of
his Hon. Friend (Mr. Harvey). He had been
utterly astonished at the manner in which it had
been received by the other side of the House. But
he supposed it was meant as a warning to all
who had any complaints to make of griev-
ances or abuses in that House, to be measured
in their language, and to beware of any expres-
sion that might by any ingenuity or sophistry
be tortured into a personal aspersion on Gentle-
men oppoSite. He hardly ktiew- any man of the
legal profession for whom he had entertained a
higher respect than for his Honourable Friend,
and that feeling was certainly not diminished by
the way in which he had brought forward his
motion. He knew that the revenue could not be
upheld without some severity tolndividnals, but
that was no reason why unreasonable and unne-
cessary cruelties should be practised. The Right
Hon. Gentleman then examined the several cases
referred to in the opening statement, commenting
on the hardship and wanton expellee to the de-
fendants they exhibited, and interred that there
was the strongest ground laid for am interpo-
sition of the House.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL argued at consider-
able length against the motion. He opposed it
on the ground that the Honourable Mover im-
puted blame to the Board of Customs and Excise,
and the Law Officers of the Crown, while be
proved the existence of none. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman here went into a minute dis-
cussion of the three cases mentioned by Mr.
Harvey, and contended that in none of them was
there any reason to be found for the present mo-
tion. In 99 instances out of 100 the informations
were prosecuted to a successful issue fur the Crown;
and because the litindredth failed from the impos-
sibility of knowing the strength of the evidence
before coining in to Couryberefore the whole sys-
tem was now to be contiemned as vicious and unjust.
The Honourable and Learned Gentleman con-
cluded by some observations on the two informa-
tions against M-r.Waithman. In both the instances
alluded to, he contended, the propriety Di the ,

eondoet of the tmt,Ofncets of the Crown was
proved by the result of the proceedings instituted,
In the one case, the Hon. Alderman had compro-
mised with the Crown, and dins alloWed the jus-
, !ice of the prosecution; and in the other the
proceedings were stopped on an allegation of
conspiracy, for which the Honourable Alderman,
if he felt himself aggrieved by being obliged to
pay costs', ought to have prosecuted the informers
to conviction.—(Here Mr. Aid. IVaithmau offered
himself to the House in explanation )—The case
for which he compromised was one in which he
was rendered liable to penalties by the introduc-
tion into his house of an illicit article by one of
his servants ; and the other case was one of con-
spiracy, for which he had intended to prosecute,
and in which he had gone 'so far'as to have asked
the names of the informers front the Board of
Excise, that he might commence proceedings
against then).
Sir M. IV. RIDLEY said the last speaker opposed
the motion became it went to impute blame to the
Officers of the Excise. For that very reason he
would support it. He should do this, because the
character of a most respectable individual (the
Solicitor to the Excise) had been called in ques-
tion, who he was sure would court inquiry into
his conduct.
Mr. IV. SMITH eulogized the exemplary equity
with which the Attorney-General conducted his
prosecutions, but nevertheless insisted that many
cases of hardship had occurred, some of which he
cited.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER showed
that in a case referred to by Mr. Smith, the pro-
perty of the unfortunate man had been seized by
the Excise Officers in the ordinary discharge of
their duty. Liis property had been re6tored, but
no reparation could be made for the injury he had
sustained, and not the smallest blame attached to
the parties concerned in the seizure. But
his case bad nothing to do with the preset'

motion.
Mr. LUSH I NGTON opposed the motion --More
information might have been obtained had the
Hon. Gentleman called for specific information
on specific cases, than the motion as at present
framed would produce, though to comply with it
would occupy the clerks of the department to
which the order consequent upon it must go for a
very considerable time. He opposed the motion,
but disclaimed all intention of withholding any
requisite_ information.
Mr. W, IVtwAms supported the motion, and
contended, that as the facts that had been stated
were denied, the Papers ought to be given, to
vindicate the characters or those charged to
have been implicated in that which had been com-
plained of.
Mr. HARVEY replied at some length. After
which the House divided :
For the Mat ion
Against it -2
Majority —is
Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report of the
Poor's Laws Amendment Bill, which was agreed
to, and the Bill'ordered to be read a third time on
Thursday.
The Report of the Committee of Supply was
brought up, and agreed to.
Lord PALMERSTON obtained leave to bring in
the Mutiny Bill. He afterwards brought it in,
and it was read a first time, and ordered io be
read a second,time this day.
The Alians.and Denizens Bills were reported,
and ordered to be readLa third time this day.
The Annual Indemnity Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed this day.
The other Orders of the Day were then dis-
posed of, and the House adjourned at ONR'•
O'CLOCK THIS 'MORNING.