The Sun.
London, England, 1828-03-05 00:00:00

41 01
41 0!

EMIGRATION.

Air. W. HORTON said he had given notice of his
intention to bring before the House that evening three
motions ; the first was for a copy of the report made by
Colonel Cockburn, who was sent out as a Commissioner to
our Colonies in North America ; the second for a repeal
of the Passengers' Bill; and the third to enable the parishes
of England to pledge their Poor Rates for loans of money,
to enable them to assist a portion of the redundant popu-
lation tc, emigrate. The latter motion he should postpone to
March 13. The second motion he had given notice of on the
part of his Right Hon. Friend, at the head of the Colonial
' Department ; but as he understood that it was the intention
' of an Hon. Member to oppose the motion, he (Mr. H.)
should postpone it for the present, until some of his Ma-
jesty's Ministers should mention the intended opposition.
He now proposed to offer himself to the notice of the House
upon the subject of the Emigration from the United
Kingdom, having reference to the two Committees,
which sat in the years 1826 and 1827, and examined a
variety of evidence, and made a report thereon with sug-
gestions by the Committee, and which report had been laid
on the table of that House. In presenting himself to the
notice of the House, upon the present occasion, he begged
to be understood as not making any suggestions upon the
authority of Government, nor indeed, was it his
intention to propose any substantive measure, but his
sole object was to call the attention of the
House to a subject which he thought one of very
great importance, namely, the redundant population of the
country. Notwithstanding the importance of the subject,
in his view, he was sorry to say, that the then state of the
House, upon the present occasion, when his intention to
bring forward the subject was known, clearly showed that
other Honourable Members did not attach much im-
portance to it; but be had a duty to,' perform, and
notwithstanding the spit* now displayed by some
Hon. Members he was satisfied that the clay would ceme
when the subject must be considered, anal considered perhaps
without being able to point out any effectual remedy. He
had a duty to perform and he should not be deterred from the
performance of it by the apparent impatience of those
Members, and he had no doubt that, by permission of the
House, he should be able to male such a statement as
would excite an interest upon some future discussion
of the subject. He should shortly refer to the history of
those experimental emigrations which the Committees had
enquired into, and reported upon to the House. In con-
sequence of the want of employment by the peasantry in
the South of Ireland, particularly in the immediate neigh-
bourhood of Cork, in the year 1823, the Government de-
cided to send out as an experiment some emigrants, under
the superintendance of Mr. Robinson, a Canadian gentleman,
who went to Ireland for that purpose. He had never con-
tended that an emigration of ~such a limited extent,
could afford any effectual relief to the -population.
of Ireland, and he had always said that •it was
only as experiment to ascertain what extent of relief could
be afforded by an emigration upon the same plan, and to
a greater extent. Tbat experiment, and a similar one
in 1825, succeeded to his utmost expectations.—(llear.)
The Committees of 1826 had furnished two Reports, which
the House had:Voted entirely satisfactory. It was not ne-
cessary to go over the ground that the Committees hiul taken;
they established the proposition that there wasa redundant
population ; he meant a redundancy of able-gdied labour-
ers, for whose labour there was no effeetinil demand ;
and the Committee had s,ported in Ireldiid, as welt as in
particular parts,ef Seotlakktt and England. There could be
no doubt that tithr;issiiiiidancy was the cause of much of
the, misery of the labouring classes; besides which it must
be remembered that the unemployed labourer consumes
more than he produces, and adds nothing to the aggregate
of productive labour. He thought it right in this place
distinctly to mention that those Committees had never
contemplated any emigration that was not entirely volun-
tary. But they conceived that if the distress was so great as
had been represented, it would require very little tempts-
tion to induce the distressed to accept the means of removal.
He was also justified in stating that ne measure was p'roposed
in the Committee for filling up the vacuum whickwas the.
natural result of extensive emigration. From 1822 until
the present time, he (Mr. W. Horton) had given his best
attention to this subject. He admitted that Tatny.
erroneous views might have been embraced by rum,'
but for the Committee, and he believed the. country
s
twHi ose ns h dahi d id
os
eebdne e
aspersions were thrown on the Committee, particularly in
ittvl t
idiaedremixv
tietrde
mt hferaotrine nr
teuht ce valuable
aita bom uosrts. n(f ou
ernamdr
ea.
d)-
Ireland, where it was represented that they contemplated
plans of wholesale murder. He had never seen, however, so
striking an instance of misery transmuted into happiness, as
in the condition of those persons, who in 182$ and
1825 embarked from the south of Ireland for one Colonies.
It was most desirable, no doubt, that lands of extraordi-
nary and prinawval fertility, such as abounded in
our Colonies, should be cultivated ; and the ceentry

•
culi Its blind, it, with a recinnetent anti sufl'erini
, i repwatiou, nducenients Were Iteldolout to emigrate, it
it were uut for the expellee incurred by emigration. In-
ducements for emigration were only another name fu:
charity, and the Committee could not sanction the
advance of a large capital fur this purpose. On
this point, however, he had something very satisfac-
tory to state to the House. The Committee of 11317 Lad
examined ten colonial witnesses, whose evidence was fully
to be relied upon. l Those witnesses were particularly cau-
tioned not to hold out any hope which could not be:
realized.
.. The'result of their evidence was, that you could
carry on emigration to a sufficient extent, without any con-
siderable expense. The witnesses were examined at great
length with respect to the immediate expenses, the result wag
that it would be scarcely safe to take a less sum than 661.
currency for each family, consisting of u labourer, his
wife,' and three children. Forty pounds out of this gum
was to be taken for provisions, for it was intended that
the 'emigrants should be victualled for six months,
so that they might be out of the reach of want. It was to
be remarked also that when one family got settled in time
Colonies, another family would be sure to follow with the
,expectation of being supported by the family which had
previously settled. There was not a single settler from
Ireland, who had not written to friends soliciting them to
come out, and promising assistance, which as far as food
went he was able to give. All the witnesses were of
opinion that the sum expended on the outfit, might
be paid back by the emigrants after the expiration of
a few years. For instance, it was proposed, that after
seven years the emigrants should be called upon to
pay a sum of four pounds a year in provisions, with
liberty to redeem the whole debt whenever they the tight
proper. The witnesses were unanimous in considering t4it
the emigrants would not resist the payment of this yearly
sum. They were Supported too by the testimony.of Col.
Cockburn, who was sent out by his Right Hon. Friend, sad
who made a ye)), interesting report, which would be laid
on the table of the House. Col. Cockburn was particularly
desired to direct his attention to the question whether the
emigrants could and would pay the money advanced to- ez.
able them to emigrate. He was of opinion that there
could •be no difficulty in getting them to pay five
pounds a year in kind, though there might be some
difficulty iu getting money from them. Cul. Cockburn had
visited the Lanark settlements and the military settlers._
These latter were discharged soldiers, who had been induced
to emigrate at the conclusion of the war, and who are now in
a capacity to acquire their own independence. and to
produce wealth by the combination of fertile land and
human labour. Colonel Cockburn spoke to numbers
of those settlers, and they were all of them willing to
pay Government the money advanced for seeding them out_
Notwithstanding the testimony of the witnesses whom he
had quoted, as having appeared before the Emigration
.Com-
mittee upon this point, and notwithstanding the evidence
of a Commissioner duly qualified to take the inquiry, and
which he had prosecuted with a zeal and spirit that did
hint great honour ; he had also the opportunity of bringing,.
forward the evidence of one whose testimouy would
have to be considered most valuable, . better than
which, perhaps, the universe could nut product,
he meant that of Colonel Talbot. Colonel Talbot settled
25 years ago in Canada ; at the period of his settlemeutte
had not an European within one buudred miles of him;
he was surrounded by a population of between 20,000 and
50,000. He was now iu this country, and had authorised
him (the Hon. Member) to say, that should it be deemed
necessary, he would appear at the bar of that
House, and tell the Honourable Members of the House
whether he did er did not think there was a probability of
repayment. He would tell them that if they took produce
instead of money, in every instance repayment would be
made. By this means the expense of emigration would be
lowered, and by receiving a rent in kind instead of money
the object would be accomplished. He would now advert
to what be had partially adverted to before, which wag
that the future expence would not be equal to
the last—all these facilities therefore forwarded the view
of the propriety of emigration. If there were those who
would continue to doubt the evidence be had alluded to, he
would refer such Members to some letters written by settlers
there to their friends in this country, a hundred of which
he had seen ; and he would do this because he thought it moat
likely to produce an effect on the minds of those who were
sceptical on the subject. (There being a considerable
noise in the House, notwithstanding silence had been called
by the Speaker, the Hon. Member expressed his regret
that he could not command its attention.) He felt the
subject more than some other Members did, because he
was satisfied that there was extreme misery among
the lower class of society; and that the" ocily way
of relieving their condition was, by giving every rational
facility to emigration which it was in the power of the
country to afford..—(Hear.)—The Hon. Member then read
parts of several letters written by emigrants, which expressed
their highest satisfaction of the country in which they lived,
and entreated their friends and relatives to go out to
them. As long as these letters continued to be written,
there could be no doubt that there would be a disposition
on the part of those who received them, to emi-
grate to those parts, and that, unless the trade
of this country revived, the removal of a great many indt-
viduals in that way, would be the only substantial benefit
that could be afforded. He would now entreat the atten-
tion of the House to a few observations on the state qfirem
land. Whither, he asked, would the system of perpetual
division of property is Ireland lead, if it did not receive-
stone positive check ? Every where it was statelthat the
irruption of paupers from Ireland was attended itis the
worst consequences to our own population. Head never
heard any plausible remedy suggested for thin 0,11, unless it
) lsi
lve
f acto rto
was to get rid of the perpetual cause of increase of popula-
tion involved in the sub-letting system inlreland. It was
in evidence before the Committee that meidy landlords were
restrained from removing their tenantsednly from the 3 p
prehensione
r.
cud n
oof Ireland,thl atathye man
and woulddcooumbmt spread
that nele s over
o h
. provinces
rd
everyi
usdb be
in-
terest of Ireland if these persons were disposed t
avail
themselves of emigration. Could anAan doubt that under
such circumstances, it was the *most of Parliament to
supply facilities for emigration? 'II2 was convinced that
no practical mode of remedying the evil allowed to exist
could be devised so cheap as the one he contended fir—
Could it be doubted that evil resulted in Ireland from per-
sons pressing forward to become possessors of land ? Those
persons did not bid for land for the purpose of employing
their stock or capital upon it, but only from a desire to ob-
tain the means of avoiding that starvation which they
might be subjected to, if they did not obtain possession
the land. That competition, however, had a natural ten-
dency to piciduce high rents. That must have been the
view whicOhe Melt gentlemen took of the question ; but
what* was the advantage of having nominal high rents, if
they were not paid ? Under that system, Ireland was feet
adVancing to a state of Agrarian law, which tended to
bring the landed proprietor down to a level with his pauper
tenant. Nothing was so effectual as emigration for discourag-
ing the system. Nothing was so common as for people to say.
" Let capital flow into Ireland, and all will be well."--
What was the meaning of that statement ? Manufactming
capital would not flow into Ireland, because there was
nothing to invite it. Manufacturing capital would go where
there was the greatest market for home consumption—
where there was the greatest dthouchcmcni. Moreover, ie
would fix itself in a coal country on account of the ma.
chinery which it employed. Capital would not go to Ire-
land for cheap labour, when the steam-engine brought that.
labour within the reach of a bridge with a high toll. Would
agricultural capital flow into Ireland? Those who said so
misunderstood the mode in which agriculture should
againsttlra capitalistsbi
mi
be conducta The introduction of agricultural capital
would notilaave the effect of furnishing employment f,
much mental labour. If five men were at present em-
ployed;in draining a field in Ireland, under an improved
system•o
. f agriculture; that work might be performed by
ght
a ds the
hae
three men, which wouldmouse a saving to the capitalist of
the wages of two labourers. if ten men were now em-
which would
in machinery=.
de the labour of most of the men. A redundancy
supeibC •
/ova, one of the misfortunes attending the state of the po-
ployed' in throapspluedrrical
oi • , that the
atio great principle of the wealth of this
country—namely, her machinery—was at present in abey
;juics- from the impossibility
ewhich was found to exist of dis-
miming manual labour from the channels in which it was
at present employed. Some persons maintained that it
Would be better to employ the redundant population in
cultivating the waste lands of Ireland than to send them to
the Colonies. He could only say that he believed that no
oinf;o6;natiar
man of any authority in the country could be found td
concur in the proposition.. If labour were to be Applied
upgrelvfeauemlidelinguto: to the adjoin_
to cultivation, let it be employed, not upon land which
Would barely yield a crop, but upon lands which, like shoes
in our colonies, were known to produce the most fertile
crops for an indefinite period. But if it were considered
desirable to cultivate the waste lands of Ireland, why not
try that scheme contemporaneously with emigration, for
the purpose of striking a balance between the two plane,
and seeing which was likely to be attended with the best
results ? in connexion with the subject he begged to call
the attention of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell),
who had given notice of a motion for a Committee to in-
quire into the causes of the increase of crime, to a charge
lately delivered from the Chief Justice of the Common
Pleas from the,, seat of justice. That Learned person
gave it as his' opinion that the increase of crime and