The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-10 00:00:00

CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL.

Upon returning to the gallery, we found
Mr. WATSON moving that the House go into Committee
on the Bill. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman said he would
shortly state to the House the grounds upon which he asked
their assent to this Bill. He did not mean to invade what were
termed the safeguards of the Established Church, but simply to
repeal some statutes which were a disgrace to the statute-
book and to the age in which they lived. The present Bill had
passed a Committee of the House of Lords during the last ses-
sion, and, so far from going beyond the wishes of the Lord
Chancellor and the law lords, these noble and learned per-
sonages only complained that it did not go far enough. A Com-
mission had been appointed in the present session, which made
a most valuable report on the general laws affecting numerous
classes of their fellow-subjects in a religious point of view. He
had been blamed for not making the Bill more comprehensive,
but had he extended i' s provisions to all classes of Dissenters,
it would not have passed through both Houses of the Legis-
lature. Ti.e first class of penal measures to which he
would allude, was that which affected the supremacy of the
Pope. The Commission steed that those Acts ought to be
repealed. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then went on
to the penal statutes chiefly passed in the reign Elizabeth
and William the Third affecting the Roman Catholics,
imposing the penalty of high treason upon those
who a second time were convicted of acknowledging the poli-
tical supremacy of the Pope. Many of these statutes were not
only absurd, but wholly inoperative at the present time, for
beads and Agni Dei were imported at an ad valorem duty of
30 per cent.—( Laughter.) Not so the regular clergyman,
and yet we had this penal enactment. He could not under-
stand why this penal Bill should be retained on the list, for he
believed that they were not sufficient for the education of the
youth of this country. He expected the support of that side
of the House. The Members on that side had voted for the
Maynonth Bill, and for the education of the people of Ireland.
If the Right Hon. Baronet would look to the several statutes
he would see that they were totally inapplicable to the circum-
stances of the case.—( Hear, hear.) If he would look at these
reasons he would see that the principle of penal laws affecting
religious opinion were bad. He had expected a most respect-
able opposition from the Hon. Member for Oxford ; but if
the question were to be discussed, he trusted that the principle
for which he had contended was one which ought to be recog-
nised in every legislative assembly. He was obliged to the
House for their attention to the observations he had felt it his
duty to make.—( Cheers. )
Sir J. GRAHAM said that, in the opinion which he had
expressed with respect to this Bill, there was, in fact, no dif-
ference between him and the Government. This was shown
by the decision which had been come to in the Lords. And
with respect to the amendments, he had no personal objection ;
but he still thought that, so far as the Bill of 1829 was con-
cerned, he was obliged to say that her Majesty's Ministers had
duly considered the measure, and they were of opinion that
great care was requisite before they came to any decision.
He was not aware that her Majesty's advisers had ever inti-
mated, either directly or indirectly, their readiness to concede
to the repeal of the laws now denominated obnoxious. Such a
course he, for one, regarded as highly inexpedient ; and he re-
peated what he had more than once previously stated, that in
the present state of public affairs, it was not advisable to pur-
sue it. At the same time he would admit that, in the next
session, some measure might be introduced which would satisfy
the Hon. Member for Kinsale, and render it safe for him to
withdraw his resolution.

Mr. REDINGTON reminded the Right Hon. Baronet that
this was the only day in the week on which such orde.s could
be brought forward, and he trusted that his Hon. Friend, who
had so ably and perseveringly introduced the measure, would
not too readily abandon it. Some short time since he heard a
discussion in another place upon the severe enactments still
maintained and exercised in Portugal, and the Colonial Secre-
tary, in reply, appealed to the fact of this country having only
a few years since repealed penal acts equally as stringent. One
would have supposed that such a plea would not have beer,
urged unless the Government could come into court wilt
pure hands and prove that this country was wholly free from
the taint of religious intolerance.) And yet how diametrically
opposite was the fact. But let the House look to the imposi-
tions virtually placed upon that estimable sect of the Catholic
Church—the Jesuits ; and yet Prussia—Protestant Prussia—
had successtully, and with honour to herself, established institu-
tions for the benefit of that order. Again, the late Dr. Doyle,
esteemed for his charity and conciliatory feeling, and that re-
nowued friar, Father Matthew, were virtually regarded as
proscribed.
Sir R. H. INGLIS said the measure was not the least
important which had been brought forward in the present year,
and yet at this late period of the session they were called upon
to deliberate on it. Few in that House who were not
interested in it knew the nature of the Bill, and cer-
tainly none out of the House were aware of what the Bill
proposed to effect. It proposed at once to entirely repeal the
Act of Supremacy, repealed the Act which prohibited Jesuits
from appearing in that House, and repealed the Act which pro-
hibited Roman Catholic processions. He apprehended, if the
Bill passed as it now stood, there would be no restrictions placed
upon those processions, and a Roman Catholic Bishop would
have a right to claim a participation in a see of the Established
Church; and he asked the House, having already incurred the
obloquy of the country for adopting similar measures, were they
prepared to proceed further with this Bill ? Well, then, he
should sit down, trusting that the further consideration of the
measure would not be pressed upon the House, and would eon-
elude by moving that the Bill be committed that day three
months.
Mr. SHELL thought that the Right lion. Baronet ought to
be the last person who should talk of the bigotry of Jesuits.—
( Hear, hear, and cheers.) He considered that ho had mani-
fested an opinion of their principles and proceedings which was
really astonishing:: He would ask him what country did
not bear evidence to their exertions—
" Quay regio in terris non nostri plena laboris."
NV hat country, he would ask, did not benefit by their labours ?
The Right Hon. Gentleman talked of the late proceedings in
Switzerland, but did he ever hear of Vestris, the professor in
' Zurich ?
Sir R. INGLIS—IIe was expelled.
Mr. SHELL—Yes, tardily expelled, but was he not the
principal instigator of the late outbreak ? He could speak from
experience, that the Jesuits were the most zealous promoters of
education. Ile, himself, was educated in a Jesuit, college, and
he could say that they were always devoted to the cause of
genuine liberty.
Mr. NEWDIGATE found fault with the Government, and
accused them of a breach of promise with regard to the present
question.
Sir J. GRAHAM disclaimed the imputation of the lion.
Member, and said that the Government never contemplated
making any alteration in the Bill of 18'29 so far as regarded the
Jesuits.
Mr, M. J. O'CONNELL did not exactly understand the
position in which the House stood with the country. Ti,
Government had been pledged to everything and to tiotiling.
They had disappointed the expectations of the people on several
measures, and it was now time that they should understand
what they really meant to do. He was prepared, for himself
and other Irish Members, to say that they thought the present
proceedings of Government most unrequired and unjustifiable.
Mr, B. ESCOTT had heard nothing to induce him to vole
with Government on this occasion.
Sir R. PEEL said that on this subject the Government had
appointed a Corninissicei, which had only returned its report, on
the 30th of May, but ev.:rig to the pressure of business, they
had not !2eo able.yet to give it 111:::ir consideration. lie was
willing to admit Illy
ess to cope with what he regarded as
the prej of the - •" in
present instance, lie
people ; but,t
.., not prepared to legislate gratuitously, when legislatieu wet
I unnecessary, if not unsafe. The Roman Catholiz Bequests
Act had been conceded by the Government to advance

the interests both of the Church and general community of
Ireland. It was not intended as a means of prejudicing the
archbishops of the various sees in that country, nor of lessening
their influence there; it had been accorded as a boon, and he
saw no reason for introducing its pretended deficiencies into
this debate.

Lord J. RUSSELL thought it desirable that the Govern-
ment should introduce its own proposition, rather than incur
the difficulty of discussing and satisfactorily legislating on
clauses of a Bill in Committee. But as no such step had
been taken by the Right Hon. Baronet the Prime Minister
of the Crown, and as no prospect was held out of
the law of 18i9 being amended, or its penal enactments re-
pealed, he should vote for the House going into Committee,
without pledging himself to the adoption of all the clauses of
the Bill, or the abolition of certain restrictions.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
Alajority against the motion
The Schoolmasters (Scotland) Bill was read a third time.
The Bankruptcy Declaration Bill was read a second time.
The other orders of the day having been disposed of, the
House adjourned at a Quarter-past One o'clock.