The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-23 00:00:00

unless evidence of a similar kind were adduced, he could not put
much weight on the Noble Lord's testimony on this point.
Some difficulty occurred as to the date of the memorial, and the
change of opinion which might have occurred since it was signed.
Hr. WadJington ultimately read the letter of the Duke of Rich.
mond, in which his Grace intimated that the memorial was expres-
sive of the feeling of the greater number of the landowners against
the proposed line.

Mr. John Walker, surveyor and mining engineer, had been in prac-
tice for twenty-five years. Was well acquainted with the coal
district of Wakefield. There were ninety-one colleries there
within a circle of six miles. The produce of these mines
was sent to all the ports on the eastern coast. Immense
quantities of coal from this district were also sent from Hull to
America, and other places abr3ad ; and he had no doubt if greater
facilities were afforded for its transit to the coast, that this exporta-
tion would be increased to an incalculable extent. Upwards of
5,000 tons were at present daily raised from the beds in and about
Wakefield. Thought that greater regularity would take place in
the transmission of coal by railway than by canal.
Mr. Richard rope, 8, Lower Thames-street, City, was joint
owner, with his brother, of an extensive colliery near Wakefield.
Shipped large quantities of the produce of this mine to London and
the ports on the eastern coast. This coal was known in London as
the " Cliff Wall's-end Coal." Made a railway of two miles, with a
tunnel of 260 yards. Before the making of this railway raised an-
nually from 35,000 to 40,000 tons, but since that the quantity
raised was much greater. The strike that had taken place in
the Newcastle collieries was the means of introducing to
a very great extent the coals of the Wakefield district, but
they were known in the London market before that. He had
thirty-two vessels employed in the shipment of this coal, and he
was very frequently unable to find as many vessels as he re-
quired. These vessels brought back nothing, as the delay which
would take place in unloading the returned cargoes would throw
the colliers idle. This ii.convenience would not take place if this
railway were carried out.

Mr. Edward Casher, a wine-merchant for the last 42 years at
Portsmouth, and who was the mayor of the borough, stated that,
in his opinion, the Guildford line was decidedly the best for
the town.

To the cross-examination of Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD, Mr.
Casher stated that he had convened the meeting at Portsmouth in
consequence of a requisition presented to him for that purpose.
The meeting was numerous, and highly respectable, and there was
a large majority in favour of the atmospheric line. The feeling
of the town was opposed to the South_ Western Company, and if
the atmospheric line were as cheap, more expeditious, and more
safe, it would be the better one for Portsmouth. The inhabitants
had formerly preferred the line by Horsham, and when► the South-
Western Company had at that time profferred a terminus at Forts-
mouth, it was refused.
On further cross-examination, Mr. Casher stated that he did
not think that there was either jealousy or rivalry between
Southampton and Portsmouth. The trade, it was true, had been
partly diverted to Southampton before the making of the Gosport
branch, but much of it had come back. He did not chink that the
circumstance of both lines being in the hands of one company
would lead, on their part, to any deviation of the traffic, nor was he
aware that several of the Directors of the South_ Western Company
were proprietors of the Southampton Docks.
To the cross-examination of Mr. RAWLINSON, Mr. Casher re-
plied that he did not think the proposed terminus of the atmospheric
line would be more convenient than that proposod for the Chichester
and Guldford line. There was certainly an excellent access to the
best and most improving part of the town by the terminus of the
atmospheric line, while the approach to the terminus of the other
line was by a sufferance road, which was the property of the Crown,
and might be stopped if the Government desired. He was of opinion
that a rich company would be more likely to provide good accom.
modation for the public than a poor one.
On being re-examined, Mr. Casher stated that the first project
was for a line from Fareham, by Chichester to Portsmouth. The
second project was the Brighton Extension line, and the third was
the present line from Guildford. The proposed terminus of the
atmospheric line would be more convenient for Portsea and Land-
port, and that of the other for Portsmouth and Southsea. The
population of the Portsmouth district of the town was about ten
thousand, and of Portsea double that number. One of the great
objects in forming a railway was to make a navy communication
with Chichester, Midhurst, and the rich country on that route,
and that this Guildford line effected.

The Hon. Mr. Lascelles deposed to the favourable feeling which
existed in Wakefield towards this railway. He knew many of
these who signed the petition which had been just presented in its
favour, and they were very respectable people.
By Mr. HARDY-Mr. Smith's house was of that class of houses
generally occupied by country gentlemen. Did not know whether
the line came within half a mile of it or not.

Lord Pollington, M.P. for Pontefract, stated that the feeling of
the inhabitants of Pontefract was entirely in favour of this line.
Mr. Alonckton Milnes, M. P., Pontefract, deposed to the bene.
fits which the railway would confer on the malting trade of Ponte-
fract and the trade of Knottingley.
Mr. George Russell, butcher and cattle.dealer—Lived at Kel-
lington, within 16 miles of Wakefield. Purchased on an average
1,000 sheep in the year, and 100 fat beasts, which he sent to
the Wakefield market. Found that beasts were sent from Ham.
burgh to Wakefield in less time than he could bring them from
Goole. (In reply to a question from Mr. Wilkins, this witness
caused great laughter by saying that these Germam beasts
were called " Sir Roberts.") These " Sir Roberts " ar-
rived in better condition from Hamburgh than his beasts
from Goole. If this line were laid done the facilities which it
would afford would enable him to compete better with the " Sir
Roberts."—(Laughter.)
Mr. John Patty, butcher and cattle dealer, gave similar evidence
as the last witness to the advantages which would result by this
railway in affording greater facilities for conveying cattle.
Mr. James Hymer, miller, near Snake, deposed to the great disad.
vantages which those in his line of business were at present labouring
under for want of increased accommodation for conveyance.
Mr. John Norwood, corn-factor, gave similar evidence.
Ralph Creyke, Esq., lived near Goole. Was proprietor of two
thousand acres of land. This line of railway would, he consi-
dered, tend very much to open up- the resources of the country,
and was in his opinion the most eligible line that could be
laid down for that purpose. It received the most unanimous
support from the inhabitants of the district, and a petition was
adopted by the inhabitants of Goole in its favour without a dis-
sentient voice. He had no doubt but every department of trade
would be benefited by it.
Mr. W. Wells, agent to Lord Beverley—Occupied 450 acres of
land, and had no doubt but the proposed line would ma
terially benefit his interests by the increased facilities
which it would give for the conveyance of agricultural produce.
He also thought the public would greatly benefit by the in-
creased stimulus it would give to trade.
Mr. M. Wedall gave similar evidence, and it being now four
o'clock the Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

Mr. James Warner, a proprietor and occupier of land near the
Gosport branch of the South-Western Railway, stated that he knew
the traffic to Chichester from Salisbury and all parts in the west.
He occupied about 1,200 acres, and was largely engaged in the
breeding and feeding of sheep ; and he believed that if the railway
were extended westward to Chichester, and beyond, it would
materially increase the facilities of bringing cattle from the west
to be fattened, and then returned to the butcher in the west. He
had experienced great inconvenience in sending cattle over the
floating bridge at Gosport. He was engaged in the timber
trade, and testified that there was a great deal of wood
on the line of the projected railway, especially at Single-
ton. There were often great falls of wood there, but the
inhabitants experienced such diffic illy in getting the timber down
to the water side that they could dispose of none but that of the
very finest quality, and he thought the carriage by the projected
line would be reduced by a third. The quantity of timber in
Singleton Forest was very great, and it had been suffered to
accumulate in consequence of the difficulty of getting it
away. Botley was a place of considerable trade from
its standing on an arm of the Southampton-road, and
the inhabitants of that place bought very largely
in corn at Chichester market. One of his neighbours bought, dur-
ing the year 1844, 1,273 quarters of wheat, and up to the present
time during this year 890 half-quarters, making in less than 18
months a total of 2,163 half-quarters. This corn had been trans-
ported by coasting vessels, at the rate of 7s. Sd. a load of five
quarters. By the proposed railway it would be conveyed at 6s. a
load, thus saving Is. Bd. a load, besides avoiding the risk and
delay, as it would be brought safely in about four hours. The
butchers of Southampton were all in the habit of attending Chiches
ter market, and occasionally Petersfield market. He knew the float-
ing bridge over the Itchin, and he believed that considerable in-
jury to the cattle was done by their being driven together in their
progress to and upon the bridge ; but he saw no difficulty in carry-
ing cattle over by the bridge in vans. He had himself sent great
numbers of cattle by railway to London, and had never had any
injured.
Mr. M'Cheane, an Irish provision merchant at Portsea, stated that
there was a great importation of provisions from Waterford, Lime-
rick, and Cork. The Limerick provisions were always landed
at Portsmouth, because the vessels from the former place were
too large to get up to Chichester. He had a considerable trade with
Chiche.ter, Petworth, Guildford, and all that part of the country ;
and he thought that the business would be much increased if there
was a railway communication with the north. Provisions were
sent as far as Salisbury from both Portsmouth and Southampton.
With Petersfield he had no intercourse whatever. There was a
great trade in provisions throughout the whole of that country,
and he thought that Guildford Railway would answer all the
requirements of the neighbourhood, while the other decidedly
would not meet the necessity of the case.

Group DD.

GLASGOW, DUMFRIES, AND CARLISLE RAILWAY.

The Committee reassembled this morning at half-past eleven,
and shortly after proceeded with the further consideration of the
schemes before them.

Mr. Miller and Mr. M`Queen, both of Edinburgh, were exa.
mined generally as to the traffic from Edinburgh with the manu-
facturing towns in the western and midland districts of England.
They considered that the proposed Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle
Railway presented the best and most efficient means of communi.
cation between Edinburgh and the west of England.

Sir James Forrest, Bart., late Lord Provost of Edinburgh,
was then examined. It appeared from his evidence that
during the last two or three years there had been a
very strong feeling in Edinburgh with respect to the supply
of water to the inhabitants, and that there had been several attempts
to procure an Act of Parliament to effeA this object. Many
meetings were held, and numerous discussions took place ; and,
while the public mind was thus occupied, the promoters of the
Caledonian scheme came forward, and tempted the people of Edin-
burgh to give their approlyitlon to the project, by offering to bring
along their line a sufficient supply •f water. They even went so
far as to promise to give Edinburgh an aqueduct free of expense.
If the Caledonian Company had not made th►s offer, he felt satis
fled that their suffrages would have been given to the Glasgow and
Carlisle scheme.

Mr. Henry Clarke, a merchant at Fareham, confirmed the testi.
mony of the previous witnesses respecting the traffic. The only
additional point in his evidence was that the carriage to Botley
would be considerably less than had been stated by Mr. Warner.
The price of the carriage would be only 4s. 4d., instead of 6s. a
load for cern. The price was 2 id. a ton per mile and the distance
was 23 miles. The saving consequently would be 3s. 4d. instead
of only Is. Bd. a load.
Mr. Henry Snooke, a merchant and miller at Bedampton, which
is a mile to the west of Havant, on the line to Fareham, said that
he was in the habit of attending most of the markets around, and
he conceived that the Guildford and Chichester line would certainly
afford the best accommodation to the district.

Mr. S. Brown, merchant, at Glasgow, was next called—He
stated that he carried on a very extensive trade la =Wins in
Glasgow, and he was also extensively connected with the counties
of Ayr, Dumfries, Wigton, Klrcudbright, and the north of Ire-
land. He had agents in all these places, and he also em-
ployed persons in the western parts of Scotland in collecting
the materials for his manufactures. The fabric produced
from his works was of such a nature as to require
immediate dispatch to its destined market. The average
value of the manufactured material was from 4s. to 55. per pound
weight, and its highest value was 17s. for the same quantity. A
great quantity of the goods were transmitted to London for dis.
posal ; and it was of the utmost importance they should be con-
veyed thither as speedily as possible after they were manufactured.
The cheapest description ofgoods are usually conveyed to London by
means of sailing vessels, but the better qualities are sent by steamers.
He was of opinion that the Dumfries line would furnish the best
means of communication for all parts, as it not only connected the
most important manufacturing towns of Scotland with each other,
but also with the northern and western districts of England.
Mr. Meacock, shipping agent at Liverpool, deposed that
he was in the habit of having goods consigned to him
from Glasgow for exportation from the port of Liverpool,
The manufactures sent from Glasgow are, for the moat part, in-
tended for shipment to abroad. They are usually dispatched to
North America, the West Indies, and other foreign parts. The
goods intended for home consumption, the amount of which is
comparatively small, are transmitted to Manchester, Leeds, and
other districts in the interior, and eventually they find their way to
London, where the principal portion are disposed of. The witness then
gave a general description of the present means of communication
between Glasgow and the western and midland districts of England.
Mr. Newall, merchant at Dundee, deposed as to the present
means of conveyance from Dundee to London and other parts. He
said that with him cheapness in the transmission of goods was the
principal object, and even if they were delayed for two or three
days in their dispatch, it was of no great importance. He did not
think the construction of a railway to Dundee would materially
benefit it.

Mr. llitkin, who farmed about 1,000 acres about half way be-
tween Midhurst and Chichester, was next called into the box, but
his evidence, which contained no fact, was by no means favourable
to the promoters of the scheme, in consequence, as it afterwards
appeared of the line passing through his farm, and that circum-
stance he conceived was a disadvantage more than equivalent to any
benefit he was likely to derive from the railway.
The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

Group R.
DUBLIN AND DROGHEDA RAILWAY.

The Committee met to-day at the usual hour, Mr. Gibson Craig
in the chair, and after agreeing to the remaining clauses of the
Dublin and Drogheda Bill, Instructed the Chairman to report it to
the House.

DUBLIN AND BELFAST JUNCTION RAILWAY.

The evidence in favour of this line was then resumed.

Dr. Bennett was examined respecting the traffic of Kells and
its neighbourhood, which in agricultural produce he represented
to be very great. The inhabitants were generally in favour of
this line.

No material point was elicited in the cross-examination of this
witness, beyond an answer to a question, which excited considerable
merriment in the Committee—that the parish priest of Kells, the
Rev. Mr. WAvoy, had spoken publicly in favour of the line from
Enniskillen to Dublin, through Kells, on the ground that he
would be enabled to go up and see how the proceedings of Puha-
Runt were going on when the union was repealed.
➢dr. Russell, of Dundalk, examined—He was a distiller. The
trade of Dundalk was considerable with America, the Baltic, Eng-
land, and Scotland. There was a great trade in agriculural pro-
duce between the interior of the country and Dundalk.
Mr. Shillington, of Portadown, said the district through which
the line was proposed to be taken was a very populous one. There
was a very large weekly market at Tenderagee, near to which the
railway approached. Banbridge was also on the line, and was
an important seat of the linen trade, so also was
Guildford, at which there was a large linen manufac.
tory that did business to the amount of 80,0001. In a
circle of about seven miles around Portadown, the annual value
of the linen-trade, he thought, might be about 7,000,0001. The
quantity of grain annually sold in Portadown was 10,000 tons,
wheat principally. Of pork there was sold 1,040
tons ; of butter, eggs, and beef there was sold 500 tons. The
value of cattle and pigs sold was 60,0001. The quantity of yarn
brought into Portadown and its neighbourhood to be wove was
about 2,500 tons. There were about forty or fifty corn and flax
mills around Portadown, principally along the line of railway.
There were about eleven or twelve stages running from the town to
the adjoining towns.

Mr. Pine, flax manufacturei• at Aberdeen, said his goods were
principally sent to Manchester and London, and also to other places,
and he considered the Hawick line would be the most convenient
for the transmission of his manufactures.

Sir Thomas Phillips called Mr. Reeves, of the Post-office at
Glasgow.—He was of opinion that so far as post-office arrangements
were concerned, two lines would afford greater facilities than one,
especially as regarded the Hawick line. The proposed lines passed
through highly populous districts, and were important
on that account. Certainty in the conveyance of the
mails was very essential, and, in fact, preferable to an increased
speed without security in point of time. The districts in the neigfi.
bourhood of the Hawick line possess a considerably larger cor-
respondence than the towns lying on the Caledonian line.
For the north of Scotland the nearest route from Edin-
burgh would be by way of Fife. He considered
the mere shortening of the line from Dumfries to
Edinburgh was not of so great importance as the making of the
Hawick line.

The CHAIRMAN, at the conclusion of the examination of this
witness, stated that it was the intention of the Committee to give
their decision as to the merits of the competing companies before
they entered on the consideration of the Clydesdale Junction Rail.
way.

Mr. BELLEW, M.P. for the county of Louth, said that the railway
would be of the greatest benefit to the district, by connecting the
interior with England and Scotland. He thought the coast line
far superior to the interior lines proposed.
Mr. Gotten, who resided between Dundalk and Newry, deposed
that twelve public conveyances passed his door daily, and a vast
number of posting and private carriages. It was generally believed
that the railway would be of the greatest benefit to the district.

Mr. Gibbons, cattle salesman at Liverpool, was then called, and
said he had dealt extensively in cattle for several years past. The
principal trade was obtained from Inverness and its neighbourhood,
and the cattle were disposed of in Cumberland, Lancashire, and
the northern parts of England. Considerable numbers were sent
from Liverpool to London. The cattle brought into Liverpool
travel to Carlisle, for the most part, on foot, and are conveyed
from thence to Liverpool by rally/4y.
Mr. Miller was called to clear up a point on which the Committee
had some doubt. He said, that at a meeting in the Merchants'
Hall, at Edinburgh, it had been publicly stated that it was not
intended to carry the line beyond Hawick, and it was always dis-
tinctly understood that it would terminate at that place; but subse-
quently it had been determined to continue the railway on to Carlisle,
The only reason that had induced the Edinburgh people to give
their sanction to the Caledonian scheme, was the promise which
had been held out to them of a plentiful supply of water.
Mr. M'Adam, farmer, in Kirkcudbright said, that the average
number of cattle transmitted from the district of which he was cog-
nizant was about 19,000 annually, the value of which might be esti-
mated at 200,000/. He considered that from the advantages which the
Dumfries Railway would offer, he could afford to pay ld. per head
per mile extra for the transmission of the cattle to Edinburgh.
The Dumfries line was far preferable to the Caledonian. He was
distinctly of opinion that the fat and half-fatted cattle would go
by railway, but the lean animals he thought would be
driven in order to -afford facilities for feeding. The
expense of the present transit of cattle from Dumfries into
Norfolk averaged from 20s. to 30s. per head, and he had no doubt
that to dealers would not object to make a sacrifice of a penny
per head per mile extra for the convenience of having them con-
♦eyed by railway, as by that means of transmission the beasts would
arrive in a better condition at their destined market, and realise
a larger profit.

Sir John M'Nielle, engineer of the line, was examined.—The
line went through the busiest and most important district in the
north of Ireland, opening up the whole interior to the different
ports that were in regular communication with England and Scotland
The remainder of the evidence, till the rising of the Committee.
was as to the general advantages of the line, which he stated at some
length to be superior to any of the competing lines. It was
arranged that the engineering evidence should be gone into to-
morrow.—The Committee rose at four o'clock.

Group H.

This Committee, consisting of Lord Barrington (Chairman), Mr
Leader, Mr. Christie, Mr. Bannerman, and Mr. Botfield, re.assem.
bled at one o'clock to.day.
LANCASTER AND CARLISLE RAILWAY.

The Committee proceeded to pass the clauses.
A clause to give compensation to the Lancaster Canal Com-
pany was proposed, but rejected by the Committee.
After passing several clauses, the Committee adjourned to
to morrow week.

Group W.

WAKEFIELD, PONTEFRACT, AND GOOLE RAILWAY.
The Committee on this group re-assembled to-day at twelve
o'clock, Mr. Pakington in the chair.
The examination of witnesses was then continued to prove the
necessity for the formation of this railway.
The first witness was Mr. William Moorehouse, examined by
Mr. Wurrixs—lf this line were carried out, the vessels
which leave Goole, with stone for ports on the eastern coast, would
have a greater facility for distributing the corn with which they
return laden among the manufacturing districts. He had 37 ves-
sels employed in the conveyance of stone, coal, &c. The freight
of stone and coal to London was 10s. per ton. The
corn sent back from the ports on the eastern coast
costs generally 2s. per quarter for freight. Considered that the
proposed line would diminish the cost of conveyance, and consi-
derably shorten the time occupied in the transit. The vessels
now detained so long by the canal from Goole to Wakefield
would have their cargoes at once transferred to
the railway, and forwarded in a few hours. The
signatures of the petition which he now presented in favour of
the line comprised some of the most wealthy inhabitants of Knot.
tingley. The land in that neighbourhood was very valuable. He
sold a single acre himself for 3004. It was intended to be worked
for coal. He had 25 shares in the line.

The examination of the witnesses generally to-day was not of
the slightest public importance.

At the close of the depositions of the last-mentioned witness the
Committee adjourned till halt past eleven to-morrow.

Group B,

The Committee met on Wednesday morning at the usual hour,
and proceeded with the
LEEDS AND THIRSK LINE.

By Mr. HARDY—Considered the line under consideration would
greatly promote the trade of the district, and would be likely to
make a handsome return t 3 the shareholders. The vessels employed
by him and coming from the earern districts to Goole, with corn,
drew about seven feet water, and their tonnage averaged from
70 to SO tons.

Mr. William Bingley, of E!lersley Lodge, in the West Riding of
Yorkshire, was next examined —He was well acquainted with
the district between Penistone and Huddersfield. The price of
lime now was 255. per ton, and he had no doubt that great quan-
tities of it would be used for agricultural purposes, if it could be
conveniently procured. The present consumption would be greatly
increased if a line of rail was formed from the Knottingley quarries.
There were 50,000 acres of land in that district which required
lime. The usual quantity of lime used for an acre of land was
two and a half tons. The price of lime at the Knottingley
quarries was Gs. per ton. He considered that the annual quantity
of lime used for the district referred to would be immensely in-
creased, if this line were formed.
By Mr. BoovEatE—A great quantity of land had been lately
inclosed in that district. It had been limed, and this had greatly
increased the value of the land. Previously to its being limed,
he had let the moors at Is. 6d. per acre for grouse shooting and
sheep-walks, but since that he had let it for 20s. an acre.
Mr. Henry Biggs, of Overton, Wakefield. was next examined_
Was managing partner of the Flockton collieries. Occupied 1,000
acres of land as colliery beds. Turned his attention very much
to the subject of the application of lime to agricultural pur-
poses. Had lately written a paper on the subject to the Geological
Society.
theadthen
lando doubt
alongbut
lime all
immense quantities of
If this line
werewouldfobnne aepdp i he
de
royalty of ad. per ton.
d per ton. This included the
was 65, 9 .
that line of country. The average price of coal, at the pit's mouth,

Mr. DENISON, on behalf of the Harrowgate Junction Company,
applied for a warrant to compel the attendance of a Mr. Joseph
Dawson, who was in town, but refused to attend.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. P. M. Stewart) said he would grant a
Speaker's order, but he hoped the witness would be worth it, as it
was rather an expensive proceeding.

Mr. Winkham, banker at Knaresborough, was examined by Mr.
BAlNEs—There is an extensive corn market at Knaresborough,
which would be greatly benefited by the proposed line. There is
an inexhaustible supply of limestone in the neighbourhood of
Knaresborough, the greater part of which is burnt in the districts
lying west of the Leeds and Thirsk line. The proposed Ripon and
Collingbridge branch from the Great North of England would not
be anything like an equally beneficial one to the district.
Cross-examined by Mr. B. C. ROBINSON— Some of the districts
west of the Leeds and Thirsk line are not very productive.

Mr. T. Simpson, linen manufacturer and banker at Knares-
borough, stated that the trade of the town. is not so good as for.
merly, owing to the absence of communication with Leeds. The
cost of sending goods to Leeds is now lbs. per ton, which would
be materially reduced if the proposed line was constructed. The
price of gas in Knaresborough is 12s. 6d. per 1,0001. cubic feet,
and at Leeds only tis. Bd. If a competition were to take place
between the coal fields of Durham and the West Riding, the price
of gas at Knaresborough would be much reduced. The Pilmoor
line would do us no good at all.
Mr. Hutchison, lead manufacturer at Pakeley.bridge, spoke to
the benefit which would accrue to his neighbourhood by the pro-
posed line.

Mr. Fisher, banker at Ripon, and Mr. Morton, agent to Miss
Lawrance, also spoke to the anticipated benefit which would acerue
to Ripon from the making of the Leeds and Thirsk line.
John Nelson had been a carrier from Bassam to Leeds for 90
years. Seventeen men with carts were employed in the convey-
ance of butter, eggs, and cheese to Leeds. Believes that the
proposed Leeds and Thirsk line would be far better than any
other to the east.
Mr. Mark Melburn, farmer at Thirsk, and Secretary to the
Yorkshire Agricultural Society, examined by Mr. BAINIZS—Has
calculated the number of cattle passing from Thirsk to Leeds. At
Bedale there is a very important fortnightly fair held, from
which about 6,000 sheep and 1,820 cattle annually are sent to
Leeds. Bedale is 7 miles from the Leeds and Think line, and
15 X, miles from the Pilmoor line. The country for three mile s

TUE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY MORNING, MAY 23, 1845.

on each side of the Leeds and Thirsk line is one of the richest
agricultural districts in the kingdom, especially for barley and
sheep. About 40,000 quarters of barley are annually sent from
West Riding those districts to the West Riding. The town of Thirsk is at
present not on any line of railway, and will derive great conve-
nience from the proposed line. The North of England is in the
hands of the Durham coalewners, which renders the coal trade
from the south absolutely impossible. Coals are 2s. 6d. dearer at
then market. The feelings
g coal, which is very
valuable, Thirsk
co
ITlyheshuWt outes of di
of the inhabitants of Thirsk, with the exception of a few con-
nected with the North of England, are in favour of the proposed
line. At a public meeting of the inhabitants held about six
weeks since, an unanimous vote in favour of the Leeds and Thirsk
line was passed.
Cross-examined by Mr. DENISON—The public meeting was in
favour of a line from Leeds to Thirsk. Before the Great North of
England line was opened the price of coals at Thirsk ranged front
Us. to 165., now they are about 12s. 6d. Is not aware of any reason
why, in the event of a Leeds and Thirsk line being made, the south
coalowners could not compete with the north coalowners.
Mr. Morton. recalled by Mr. Baisrsa —Was present at a public
meeting at Ripon, on the 17th April, when the present scheme was
tiaanimously preferred to the Pilmoor branch.
Mr. S. Smith, butcher, and Government contractor at Leeds,
examined—The conntry about Ripon and Ripley is a great
grazing country, and a railway through the district would be of
great advantage.
Mr. Thomas Fountain, examined by Mr. BAINES—Had compiled
the traffic tables from the observations of fourteen days and
nights. Calculated a revenue of 73,1111. from passengers, and
64,5051. from goods, making a total of 197,618/. 6s. 4d., from which
40 per cent. for working expenses being deducted, would leave a
nett sum of 82,571/. 2s. 9d., which would pay a dividend of fai
per cent. on the capital.
This witness was cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant BELLASIS and
Mr. RosiNsoN, but nothing of material importance was elicited.
Mr. Thomas Grainger, civil engineer, at Edinburgh— Has been
engaged in many lines, and is engineer to the Leeds and Thirsk.
Is quite satisfied that the present line is the best, taking into con-
sideration the lir• as a link of communication to the north, the
interest of the town of Leeds and the district. The line starts
from Leeds, about 300 yards from the Commercial-buildings, in the
centre of the town. The West Riding Junction, Leeds and Dews-
bury, and the proposed line are all on the same level. The line
proceeds to Hasford, where a branch is proposed to the Leeds and
Bradford line. On the main line the most severe gradient is lin
100. The land between the V alley of the Aire and the Valley of
the Wharf is the most difficult part of the undertaking. From the
main line branches will run on either side to Knaresborough and Har.
rowgate, joining at the same point. The city of Ripon is accommo-
dated by a station close to the house, thereby placing it on the direct
line. The whole length of the line to where it meets the Great
North of England line is 38 miles 68 chains. A saving of distance
of the Bradford traffic will be made to the extent of 23% miles by
the Leeds and Think line. A viaduct will be made over the Valley
of the Wharf, and a tunnel of 3,195 yards at Pannal, which will
be ventilated by four internal shafts. The curves are generally
favourable, the two most severe ones having a radius of 30, and
another of 20 yards, but being near stations they are not of any in-
convenience. The estimated expense of construction is 890,0001.
Has estimated the working of the line at 35 per cent. on the gross
income, and considered the allowance of 40 per cent. a very liberal
one. It would be practicable to carry the line across to join the
Lancaster and Carlisle line. The distance from Ripon to Thirsk by
the proposed line is 10 miles 69 ctains, and by the Pilmoor line,
18 miles 40 chains. From Ripon to Leeds, by the proposed line,
the distance is 2S miles 50 chains, and by the other, 32 mites 16
chains. From Bradford to Thirsk the respective distances are 44
miles 11 chains, and 53 miles 18 chains.
The Committee, at the close of the examination of this witness,
adjourned until to-morrow (this day).

METROPOLITAN COMPLETE
SUFFRAGE SOIREE.

" Art. 111. Nothing contained in this convention, or
in the third article of the convention of the 20th of
October, 1818, hereby continued in force, should be con •
strued to impair, or in any manner affect, the claims
which eithor of the contracting parties may have to any
part of the country westward of the Stony or Rocky
Mountains.

" Art. IV. The present convention should be ratified,
and the ratifications should be exchanged in nine months,
or sooner, if possible."
We may add, that on the 23d May, 1828, Mr. Secre-
tary Peel presented to the House of Commons, by his
Majesty's command, a copy of this convention, together
with copies of other conventions with the United States.

On Wednesday evening a tea party and soiree
of the members and friends of the Metropolitan
Complete Suffrage Association took place in the
great room of the Crown and Anchor Tavern,
Strand. The hour fixed for the company to
assemble was half past five o'clock, by which time
the room was completely filled by a respectable
assemblage, a considerable proportion of whom were
ladies. Among the gentlemen present, in addition to
the chairman, Sharman Crawford, Esq., M.P., we noticed
Lawrence leyworth, Esq., of Liverpool ; Dr. Price,
editor of the Eclert:c Review ; Mr. Miall, editor of the
Nonconformist ; Dr. Epps, the Rev. Mr. Spencer, the
Rev. Mr. Dawson, of Birmingham; Colonel P. Thomp-
son, the Rev. T. Thomas, of Pontypool ; the Rev. P.
Murcell, of Leicester; Mr. W. H. Ashurst, Mr. H. Vin-
cent, Mr. W. H. Wilson, of Birmingham; the Rev. C.
Stovell, and the Rev. R. S. Bayley, of Sheffield.
On the removal of the cloth,

The CHArRNAN rose to address the assembly amidst
loud and continued cheers. He said he had be( n called
upon to preside over the present assembly, which was a
meeting of the Complete Suffrage Association of London,
and the nucleus of a body which he hoped would ere
long extend its influence into a larger sphere, and
which relied upon the truth and justice of its
principles for ultimate success. It was not his intention
to enter into any lengthened observations on the subject
which had called them, together. It was to take an ex-
pression of their opinion on the course he had proposed
to take on the resolutions of Lord John Russell, about
to be submitted to Parliament in a few days. On these
resolutions he proposed to move an amendment, and be
had given notice of that intention. That Noble Lord
had intimated that his resolutions were for the improving
of the present circumstances of the working classes ;
but they contained one important omission—they left out
altogether the recognition of the great question on which
public liberty could alone rest, the extension of the suf-
frage to the working classes.—(Loud cheers.) He had
seen that it was omitted, and he thought it was his duty
nut to suffer the House of Commons to entertain any
such resolutions without forcing the great subject of
Parliamentary suffrage upon its notice.—(Hear, hear,
and cheers.) He could hardly think how any
man, entertaining a sincere desire of benefiting
the working classes, could refuse them the only efficient
means of protecting themselves—the power of selecting
pattits to represent their interest in the Commons
House of Parliament. On that account he had, there-
fore, considered. it his duty to test the House on the
subject, by giving notice of his amendment. He did net
enter into any lengthy arguments of the justice and ne-
cessity of the step he intended to take, as that in such
a meeting would be unnecessary, but he would call
their attention to a few facts, well calculated to
strengthen the position they had taken, and to illustrate
the present deft ctive state of the representation of the
country. According to the population returns, the inha-
bitants of Great Britain were 27,000,000, and the elec-
toral body 1,012,000, while the male adult population
was 7,000 000. Thus the number of electors was but
1-27th of the population, and only 1-7th of the male
adults. The whole enactments of the laws of the coun-
try and the imposition of taxes were thus placed in the
hands of 1-7th of the male adults and but 1.27 th of the
people. Ought such a system, therefore, to con-
tinue 2—(clear, hear,) The viciousness f the system
was further shown in the distribution of the
electoral franchise. He found that 330 Members of the
House of Commons, or more than one-half of its number,
were returned by 300,000, or one twenty-third of the
adult male population; and 27 boroughs, with a popula-
tion of 172,297, and 6,943 electors, returned a greater
number of Members than all the important towns in the
empire, having a population of 3,129,000 and 149,889
electors. These facts spoke for themselves. This was a
most vicious state of the representation and one that ought
not to be allowed to continue. After further pointing out
the anomalies and evils that resulted from this restricted
mode of representation, and the justice and utility of en-
larging it, so as to include the whole people, the
Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst loud and continued
cheering.
The Rev. T. SPENCER, of Bath, proposed the first
sentiment :—" The complete suffrage movement, which
is based on the principles of truth and justice, and is
thoroughly christian in its character ; may its principles
soon become the political creed of every earnest and up-
right man." He saw no reason whatever in the present
system of representation. They found in one corner of
the country that certain parties, called freemen, without
property had votes ; in another, a man who had a small
property worth 40s. a year; in a third, one who paid
501. a year rent for land; and in a fourth, one who paid 101.
per annum for the use of a house. Yet no reason whatever
could be r=iven for this distinction. The system was so
anomalous, that a man who paid 10/. a year in a town
had a vote, while the man who rented a house in a vil-
lage worth 40/. had none ; in one place he who was said
to be a freeman, but without property, was enfranchised,
while the man of property in London, if he only happened
to occupy lodgings, was completely disqualified. He would
say, give votes to all who pay taxes. They would find
many a rogue in a 101. house, while many an honest
man occupied houses of a lower rental ; yet the former
had a voice in making the laws of the country, the latter
had none. All men who paid taxes, he contended,
should have a vote. It was said that man was made in
the image of God, and God never intended that his
image should be trampled upon and oppressed.—(Loud
cheers.) He supported complete suffrage, because the
Scriptures said they should be no respecters of persons,
and that they should do to others as they would that
others should do unto them. At the present day there
was a great amount of false religion current in society,
and its professors were continually telling them that
Christianity had nothing to do with politics ; but
if such was the fact—if religion had nothing to
do with the common affairs of life, then he for one
thought it had better walk off the face of the earth at
once.—(Loud cheers.) But this was not the truth.
They had before them the example of Christ himself,
who stood up against the rulers and oppressors of his
time, and laid down the great principles of human
equality and political freedom ' - and they had also the
example of his disciples and apostles, to show that
politics was essentially a religious question.—(Cheers.)
The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to point out the ad-
vantages of an extended suffrage. At town and parish
meetings, at Exeter-hall, at county meetings, they saw
the principle of universal suffrage in operation. In fact,
the ancient state of things at their county and borough
elections was election by this means. Among Dissenters
they beheld the ministers elected by members of congre-
gations by the general suffrage of all those who were to
receive spiritual instruction ; and, surely, if a man was
qualified to elect those who should watch over his
eternal interests, he was equally qualified and entitled
to elect the maker of the temporal laws by which he was
governed. With respect to education a great deal had
been said, as if a knowledge of geography, of astronomy,
of Latin, of Greek, or of the sciences generally—as if s
knowledge of the nature of the moon, or any of the other
questions involved in those branches of study, were neces-
sary to make a man understand a political question. In his
opinion, the education necessary for the exercise of the
suffrage was not initiation in grammar, and logic, and
literature, and science, but into the operation of the
taxes, into the laws that affected industry, into the
influence of monopoly, and into the general bearing of
the government on the condition of the people. If they
wanted to teach a person to swim, the way was to throw
him into the water ; if to skate, to put him on the ice.
And so should it be with the exercise of the suffrage ;
once give it to the people, and then they would soon learn
to exercise it ; they would soon inquire how the ques-
tions of the day operated upon the welfare of the masses,
and upon that knowledge so acquired, they would decide
upon the merits of all men who might seek to represent
them in Parliament. Further, in addition to the general
and equal extension of the suffrage to the body of the
adult population, they (the complete suffragists) sought
to equalise districts according to population, so that
Yorkshire might be placed on the same footing as
Dorsetshire, according to the ratio of population. They
sought annual Parliaments, because they would secure
faithful representatives, and operate in making Members
watch over and respect the interests and opinions of their
constituents. After glancing at the other six points
advocated by the complete suffragists, and reviewing
the history of those principles since the time of the
French Revolution until no k, in the progress of which he
strongly marked his condemnation of the proceedings
of the Chartists, he concluded a very eloquent address,
amielst loud cheers, by moving the sentiment already
given.

was one based on Christian truth, on the Scriptures.
unlike similar political movements of a former day, and
on that account alone, if on no other, he was sure
would succeed. By courage, perseverance, and temper-
ance the great object they all sought to obtain would
surely be realised.
The Rev. Mr. Dewsorr, of Birmingham, responded to
the sentiment.

Colonel P. THomPsorr next addresssd the meeting. He
looked upon the present meeting as a wreck of the former
great, energetic, and powerful party—the party that
once passed under the name of Reform. He would ad-
dress himself to the principle causes that, in his estima-
tion, had brought about the breaking-up of that once
powerfutparty. The first cause of evil was the letting
in the 504 tenants-at-will. The next great slip was
giving a preponderating influence to the landed interest.
The next source of mischief was the bad practices of
those whom the Reform Bill brought into power, the
Whigs. That party stayed the progress of those prin-
ciples which had carried them into power, entered into
unjustifiable wars, and narrowly escaped a devastating war
with France, from their folly, only from the Government
of that country being muzzled, from having 60,000 men
locked up at Algiers. Another event that led to their
depression was the fatal and foolish compact entered into
between certain sections of the Reform party to reduce
their efforts for further reform. from the hopes of obtain-
ing certain boroughs in Ireland, and for exposing which
he had been denounced, and suffered. Another and a
last reason for their breaking down, was the conduct of
the operative classes—or at least those who gave them-
selves that name—he meant the advocates of the Charter,
who, by their wild and foolish proceedings, had brought
disgrace on the just princi, les which they set up, and
sep::rated from them the great body of the middle and
the intelligent el. sses. Having assigned these reasons
for their present conduct, the Gallant Colonel proceeded
at some length to illustrate the sentiment in his u ual
graphic and happy manner, and concluded by proposing
it :midst loud and continued cheers.

Mr. Edward Miall, Dr. Price, the Rev. Mr. Phillips,
Mr. Vincent, and the Rev. P. Murcell, subsequently
addressed the meeting, which broke up at half-past ten
o'clock.

LAW INTELLIGENCE
COURT OF CHANCERY, May 22.

The Lord Chancellor sat for the first time today in his Court at
Westminster since the last day of Easter Term. '1 his was the
first day of Trinity Term, bat in consequence of the arrange-
ments that have been made for the purpose of facilitating the dis-
patch of public busines4, his Lordship did not entertain the Judges,
Masers in Chancery, and Queen's Cot►nsel to breakfast, but took
his seat at eleven o'clock.

The whole morning was occupied with the hearing of motions.

VICE-CHANCELLORS' COURT, May 22.

Nothing of public Interest occurred in the Vice Chancellor of
England's Court. His Honour took motions, after having given
judgment in the case of " Fleming v. Swinerton," which came
before the Court on demurrer.

Nothing of any public interest took place in the Courts of Vice-
Chancellor Knight Bruce and Vice- Chancellor Wigram.

Although ye.terday was the first day of Trinity Term, the Judges
did not breakfast with the Lord Chancellor, and the Courts of Law
were consequently opened at an earlier hour than usual.
The Judges of the Courts of Queen's Bench and Exchequer
appeared in their respective Courts shortly before eleven o'clock.
The Judges of the Court of Common Pleas did not take their
seats on the beech until one o'clack.

Dr. EPPS responded to the sentiment, and said the
reason why the principles which the Reverend Gentle-
man who had just sat down so eloquently advocated had
not progressed more than they bad done, was attributa-
ble to the apathy of the people to their true interests.
That apathy, however, he was glad to say, was gra-
dually disappearing under the teachings of the Complete
Suffrage Association, and by the labours cif such elo-
quent advocates as Mr. Vincent.—(Cheers.) The prin-
ciples of complete suffrage, as Mr. Spencer had well re-
presented, were those of justice, of truth, and honesty,
and had their foundation in that book of books—that
book which he was sure they all respected—the Bible.
Mr. LAWRENCE HEYWORTR proposed the next senti-
ment, which was as follows:—" The representation of the
people. May the present electoral system, which is de-
structive of all mental honesty and self-respect, clothes
vice it the garb of virtue, and is equally opposed to
true wisdom and genuine liberty, be speedily replaced
by one of equal justice to all." He supported the
p:inciples of the sentiment, because he believed that
they would be the means of advancing truth, moral
goodness, and introducing better feelings and practices
in the intercourse between man and man. He
wished representation to be co-equal with taxa-
tion. He desired that the principle applied
to the freeman of former times should be ap-
plied to the people of the present day.. Then all
those who were subject to the burden of taxation were
entitled to meet in popular assembly, and
elect their re-
presentatives to Parliament. Now taxation, instead of
being restricted to a portion of the people, was extended
to all, and so he held should be electoral rights.—
(Cheers.) To tax the poor to the extent of 30 per cent..
a rate far higher than that imposed on the rich, and yet
deny the poor having a vote, was nothing but an act of
wholesale robbery.—(Loud cheers.) Their movement

There was no case of interest heard in either of the Courts during
the course of the morning. There is posted in the passage leading
to the Court of Queen's Bench a list of enlarged rules, which will
be argued this term In the Bail Court ; two cases, in the order in
which they appear on the list, will come on for argument every
morning before motions are taken. Mr. Justice Wightman pre-
sides in the Bail Court this term.

SECONDARIES' COURT, May 21.
(Before Mr. Secondary JAMES.)
ASSIGNEES OF AI`DOWAL V. FRANKLIN.

This was an action to recover the sum of 31. 14s. Id., for goods
sold and delivered. The defendant, who is a draper at Devonport,
pleaded a tender.

Mr. WILKINS, who appeared to support the plea, said he felt quite
satisfied that he should be able to adduce conclusive evidence of the
tender having been duly and legally made to the attornies for the
plaintiffs, but that the amount had been refused unless ss., charged
for writing a letter demanding payment, was also paid. This, he
contended, could not be legally recovered. He thee called
Wm. Davis, who deposed that he went on the Bth of August
last to the office of Messrs. Linklater and Dobbs, and showed their
letter, and said that he had called to pay 31. 14s. A clerk, how.
ever, looked at a book, and said, that he conld not take less than
51. 19s. He identified a person in Court as the person to whom
he had tendered the money.
Mr. Tnoisas replied, and contended there must be some mistake,
for none of the clerks in the office had the slightest recollection of
the affair. He proceeded to show several letters, one of which
was an offer on the part of Messrs. Dobbs and Linklater to see
the person alleged to have tendered the money, and endeavour to
see who was right. A meeting took place.
Mr. WILKINS said he was instructed that this communication
was made without prejudice, and therefore it could not be given
in evidence.

Benjamin Pride was called, and stated he was the person pointed
out by the last witness. He had not the slightest recollection of
ever having seen him, or of any sum being tendered as described.
The writ was issued on the 9th of August. He had no recollection
on the subject, and certainly would not swear he had not refused it.
Mr. WILKINS said he bad not the slightest doubt that the mis-
take had originated with the clerk, whose memory was very bad.
The SECONDARY said, he thought Mr. Wilkins need not address
the jury on the case. One witness had sworn positively and the
other dubiously.
The jury gave a verdict for thedefendant.

WATICIIS V. WOOD.

The plaintiff in this case is a lodging housekeeper, residing in
Wellclose.square, and the defendant a mate of a trading vessel.
The action was brought to recover the sum of 241. ss. for board,
lodging, &c.
It appeared the defendant had lodged with the plaintiff from
August, 1842, to April, ;843. He was charged 1/. a week. He
had paid 51. since he left, and after his return from a voyage, his
outfit had been provided by plaintiff on the faith of defendant's
promise. Defendant had lodged twice before with plaintiff, and had
until this occasion paid honourably.
The jury gave a verdict for the amount claimed.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
MANSION-HOUSE.
(YESTERDAY.)

A young man, named Thomas Peat, a cab proprietor
and driver, was brought before the Lord Mayor, in
the custody of John Forrester, charged with having
committed a forgery upon the house of Curtis, Robarts,
and Co., bankers, of Lombard-street.

Mr. Bush, of the firm of Bush and Mullins, solicitors
to the Committee of Bankers for the protection against
forgeries and frauds, appeared for the prosecution.
Mr. George Brackett, clerk in the banking-house,
stated that on the 30th of December, 1844, he received
from his principals instructions to enter a bill for 3501.,
as discounted for a gentleman of the name of Richard
Latham, who was an old customer of the house. The
bill was discounted upon the supposed application of Mr.
Latham. (Here the bill was produced) Witness found
an entry of the discount of the bill on the 29th of July,
1844. He made a calculation of the discount, and gave
it to Mr. Baron, one of his fellow clerks.
The LORD MAYOR. -Was the bill accompanied by any
document? Witness replied that the bill was accom-
panied by a letter, which was supposed to be Mr.
Latham's.

Mr. Henry Barrow, clerk and cashier at the banking-
house, stated that he entered the particulars of the notes
with which the bill was paid upon the bill. They were-
-3001., 49,099, 11th January, 1844 ; 301., 37,794, 6th
March, 1844 ; and SL, 17 On, 2d July, 1844.
Mr. Dennis M'l)onnel, manager of the Loan-office,
No. 144, Great John-street-road, stated that the house
to which he belonged granted loans to tradesmen upon
security. He knew the prisoner, had transacted loans
for him on respectable security, and had frequently seen
him write, and had received letters from him. Witness
believed that the letter which accompanied the bill
was in the prisoner's handwriting, and also that the
name of Richard Latham was written by the prisoner.
(Here a letter, dated 4th September, 1844, addressed to
Messrs. Robarts and Co., and signed Richard Latham,
was produced. Witness had a very strong belief that
the writing in that letter was the prisoner's. He had a
stronger conviction as to the writing on the bank-notes.
If the notes had been shown to him unconnected with
the name of the prisoner, he did not know that he should
have said at once that the name on the notes was in his
handwriting. He believed the writing to be the pri-
soner's.

Mr. A. W. Robarts stated that he had known Mr.
Richari Latham, whose name was attached to the bill,
for many years as a customer of the house. Informa-
tion was sent to Mr. Latham that the bill had been
placed to the debit of his account,mnd he called at the
house and disclaimed the bill.

The LORD MAYOR desired to know whether the pri-
soner wished to say anything in his defence ? The
Prisoner—l have only to observe that lam quite inno-
cent of all the charges which have been brought
against me.
The prisoner was then remanded till Monday next.
Mr. Latham was formerly a partner in the highly re-.
spectable firm of Sir Henry Meux and Co., the brewers,
and we understand the prisoner is the son of one of his
old servants.

A man, named George Harris, who is employed as a
time-keeper for the omnibuses near the Bank, was
charged with having excited a person to resist the police.
Alexander Scott (policeman, No. 448) stated that at a
few minutes before seven o'clock on Monday evening he
asked the inspector and a sergeant to go with him to
Princes-street, to apprehend a man for cruelty to a
horse. Witness called out to the driver to come down,
but the defendant said to him, " Sit where you are—
they dare not take you into cust.idy;" and then turned
to witness, and used abusive language, and stated that
the coat should be dragged off his back before two
nionths were passed. If some assistance had not been
rendered, the possibility was that the case would have
been serieras. .

The prisoner was ordered to be sent to the Compter
for fourteen days. In this case there was less, perhaps.
of resistance to the authorities than had been exposed
for some time in charges of this nature.
The LORD MAYOR said, that as it was his intention
to inflict imprisonment when the penalty was left to
the discretion of the Magistrate, he h►►ped the fraternity
of drivers of cabs would make themselves acquainted with
the charm by which individuals secured the respect and
affection of those around them. _

[ln a former report, the name of the time-keeper of
Gracechurch-street, who is a very respectable man, was
mentioned by mistake.]
'MARLBOROUGH-STREET.
William Smith, a youth of respectable appearance, between
fifteen and sixteen years of age, was charged with being concerned
In stealing one dozen silver table spoons and half a dozen desert
spoons, from the residence of the Marquis of Breadalbane, No. 21,
Park.lane, Grosvenor-square.
It appeared that a few minutes past eleven the previous morning,
one of the servants in the Marquis's establishment found
a strange young man in one of the passages of the lower
part of the house, and upon asking him what he wanted,
he replied by inquiring If Lady Manners lived there.
He was teld he had mistaken the house, and he went away up the
area steps, the servant, however, immediately went into the
stewards's room, and missing the plate, ran into the street, where
he saw the young man in the act of giving the plate to the prisoner.