The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-25 00:00:00

ANNUITIES.

Mr. Alderman WAITILMAN rose to present a petition,
from Mr. Moses Wing, of Market-street, Southwark, and
of Middle-row, Holborn, and refeired to the great losses
sustained by the public in the life annuities sold by. Govern-
ment. The Hon. Alderman, after expressing his surprise
at having heard it stated elsewhere that no communications
had been received by Government, pointing out the losses nu
those annuities, save those of Mr. rtnlaytoe, observed, that
that gentleman had predicted the loss, and said he would
prove it by his own tables, which tables, though they had
been promised eight years ago, were not yet ready; He
did not i:now where the blame ought ta rest, but it was cer.-
lain that Mr. Finlaysoa received 5001. 14 year extra to
enable him to make out those tables, and that great loss ha d
riecrutA to the public by not having them prepared. It
would appear from the statement of the petitioner, that 1..7
also had made a communication to Government us this
subject, so early as May, 1819. At that period, he ad-
stressed a letter to the then Chancellor of the Exchequer,
stating that the tables by which the Government life an-
anities were granted, were not adapted to such purpose, and '
that great loss to the pnblie revenue had arisen from the use
of such table,. To this letter he received an answer, stating
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not thiukit ex.
pedient that any alteration should be made at that time, and
that the computation of new tables would be attended with
great difficulty. The petitioner addressed another letter on
the 11th of that mooh on the same subject, in wlaielt he
entered more at length 11:to a detail tlf the loss accruing
the public. In 1805 the petitioner addressed another letter
on the subject, and received an answer from the then Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, thanking him for his communica-
tion, and admitting that Government were aware that the
tables on which the annuities were calculated were inaccurate,
end that inquiries were made in order to get mere correct in-
formation. He (Alderman Waithman) was surprised that
the Noble Lord, at that time Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, should forget this circumstance. The Hon. Member
then proceeded to point out the great losses which 'had
accrued to the public from inattention ta the ion into made by the petitioner, and added, according 'to the
petitioner's showing, there was no necessity to wait for
the construction of new tables, in order to ascertain the
incorrectness of those which had been in use since 1808.
The petition was now brought up and ordered to
he
printed

COURT OF CHANCERY.
Zlr. M. A. TAYLOR rose, in pursuance of his notice,
to bring forward his motion, which, had he not heard to
the coerary from a high quarter in the House he thought
would have been sanctioned by his Majesty's davernmerit ;
and bad that been the case, he should hays had- no Ocea-
sion to go at aov length into the subject. He -r,.tuild not,
however, conceive what could induce his Majesty's
fin
ye/lament to persist in their refusal to look into the'state of
the Court of Chancery, which bad been the subject
he sat
of ap_•
peals to that House for years, and whirl', before
down, he would prove to be at present ix: a worse state
than it ever had been, both as to the injury it nflicted on
the country, and its danger as respected every snbject. He,
i-..ippoaed that it was because motions on this subject pro-
ceeded from an humble and insulated individual that they
were not noised, but he had such reliance do the
good
-ease of the li..turse and the country, that they would see
that this Court was not sufficient for the business of the
„until, and that one day or other they would demand of
the Government to take some steps to ameliorate its con-
dition. If be was in error respecting it, the Home parti.
cipated with him, for both they and the Government hail
thought it, necessary to adopt some measures for the pur-
pose,whether these were efficient.
and the question was,
In 1811 a motion had been carried by the casting vote of
the Speaker, for an inquiry into the state of the suitors
and with the concurrence of the Lords, it
was agreed that
steps for that purpose should be taken. so
matters passed
nn, until 1818, when be would assert that the state of the
Court was not one-third so bad as it was at present. At
present there was no question as to the evidence, nor was
it his intention to burden the House with the voluminous
mass which had been taken, as he hail made extracts from
It which would clearly prove his ease. Neither was there
any necessity for technical knowledge to understand the
subject, as there was no one who did not feel the proceed-
ings of that Court a grievance. The truth was, the evil
was of such magnitude that Ministers did not like to look
it in the face ; and they were in the habit of saying,
" we know it is very bad, but what can be done?"---
In many eases, also, he had been told, why "
Go
...lorward without shewing some remedy?" And

when he had offered to show it, then he was told,—
"We are not agreed as to the extent of the evil."—
He could, however, assure his Right Honourable Friend
opposite (Mr. Peel) that he would never relax in his ef-
forts upon the subject ; if he were told to produce a plan,
he would do so; but, at all events, he would at different
times take the sense of the House. If the country, how-
ever, believed in these evils, if they gave credit to their
own attornies and solicitors' bills of costs, they ought to
come forward to petition against these grievances, and to
demand redress. The Hon; Member proceeded to say, " I
have no individual interest in what I do. I have nothing
to do with the Court of Chancery. I never writhe under
its inflictions, for rather than suffer the misery of its aid, I
would, with pleasure, forfeit several hundred pounds, ra-
ther than go there in the vain hope of relief. Would Mi-
nisters themselves think it pleasant to go there ? No, they
would'not ; but still the •oblic was to be sacrificed to the
political state of the country." In saying that he spoke of
former days, when he was told by one high in office that
Ministers could not afford to go into the question, for if
they did the Chaucellor would break up the Government.
It was not his intention to enter into the history of the cus-
tody of the Great Seal, nor the reasons for the powers
which it bestowed, although there was no person conver-
sant with history who could not understand why there
was reason for the fornration of a Court of Equity, as well
as that it was intended for the relief of the suitors. He
did not mean to quarrel with the report before the Howie,
because the Commissioners did not conceive themselves
qualified to go further than they had done.- He would
only observe, that two years had elapsed ; that the Bills
brought forward had been abandoned ; and that all the
public had to look to was a string of resolutions, or orders,
published by the Lord Chancellor; and which were intended
merely to'es.pedite causes to the period-of hearing. He
had not, however, any thing to do with the subject until
the time of heaiing, and up to that period he (lid not quarrel
with those'orders. Although he had been at the bar, and had
practised in Chancery, he would not then enter into the prac-
tices which might clog suitors, but he would call the attention
of the House, one way or other, to these orders, as well asto the
system generally, which was far from What it ought to• he,
as it was not the subject he meant to discuss. He would,
however, say that from the strides made by the Court of
Chancery, if it proceeded in its present course, there was
no knowing to what length its inflictiona might extend,
and he appealed to the country gentlemen what would, in
- process of time, be the result, and whether there was
Any subject, however private or indifferent, which, ac-
cording to the powers now claimed, Might not he brought
before it. Indeed he might go as far in that way as Hi,
dihra9, who looked upon it as an engine even in law and
match-making, for he suggested, when speaking of the
lawyers

" And if you follow their adviCe,•
In hills and answers, and replies,
• You'll write love-letters in Chan-eery
Shall make your-fair, on oath, answer ye,
And either foree her to be your wife,
Or make her wretched all her life."
And indeed (said the Hon. Gentleman) this is true ; for if
I was a young holya—(A laugh)—and a man said it you
don't marry me I'll put you in Chancery, as will he recol- •
lected was done the other day with a dead man, against
whom a hill was filed, I would agree at once to his pro-
posal sooner than be obliged to go in there and answer upon
oath as to- whether I liked him, and to the various other
piquant interrogatories which a humorous or a malicious
genius might suggest. As to the orders, they did not ap-
pear to be consistent with what they ought; as when a
hill was ripe for hearing, the party was obliged to apply
for leave to set it down, and considerable' time would elapse
before even the very bearing came on. ' He had before
stated, that if a party sued for a legacy of 2001. bequeathed
to him, end that the executors to the will did not admit
assets, he would defy the most ingenious, active, and able
solicitor in London, to get that 2001. in Chancery under
a period of six years. Also, if a widow and child were to
receive a residuary bequest after the payment of debts,
&e. provided there were assets, could it be supposed, al-
though it certainly was the case, that during the whole of
the proceedings (inlese the Master made a special report)
that this widow and children would he actually left without
any means of support? The motion he intended to propose,
he should shortly state, because he would be sorry to lead
the Hoiose astray, or under any circumstances to bring for-
ward a motion which he could not substantiate. The
terms of his motion world be, that it appeared to the
House, from the papers laid before it, and the evidence
taken by the Commissioners, that notwithstanding the
• establishment of the office of Vice Chancellor in 1818, some
further steps were necessary for the advantage of suitors in
having their eases decides], and for enabling the person pre.-
siding in the Court of Chancery effectually to discharge
his other important duties." When the question was last
before the House, his Right Hon. friend the r ome Secre-
tary, did him the honour to say that he was glad he (Mr.
M. A. Taylor); did not mean to move for any further. Com-
mittee, and was content with the papers before the House,
and with the evidence before ,the Commissioners. When
he moved for papers a few weeks age, he stated the number
of causes then set down, as far as he was al)le to learn, and
he found it correct. He begged to assure his Hon, Friend
' the Solicanr-General, that he would come to the question
simply, and he hoped that he should justify himself in the
opinion of the Houseliy the course he would pursue. By
the papers on the table it appeared, that on the last day
of Hilary Term, 1818, there stood before the Chancellor,
re-hearings end appeals, 69. Before the Vice Chancellor,
causes, 351, pleas awl demurrers, 17, exceptions and further
directions 158—miking its all 595. It was important to
mark a distinction here, for when a cause was mentioned
or beard, it should be understood as being simply in a state
of progress, because it had afterwards to bo sent to. the
Master for his report, after which came exceptions, and
then probably another hearing for further directions. Some-
thous there were two applications,' for further directions,
and svisat'he complained of was confirmed by causes re-
maining standing for hearing during. two years, and after-
wards set clOwn for farther directions for full a year and a
half. The Hon. MeUriaer then went on to notice in terms of
the highest praise the exertions made by the present
Master of the Rolls while in the office pf Vice-Chancellor.
He then did all that man.could do to expedite the business
'date Court. By the utmost possible exertion he was en-
abled to place the business,. of Ins branch of the Court upon
such a footing as that causes generally received • further di-
rections in six or seven months after they came upon the
paper; but before a short time bad elapsed from the period
of his appointment, business so increased that he found it
impostade to put them in a train for further directions in
less than 18 or )9 months from the time they appeared
on the paper. The house-would of course bear in mind,
that when theSe directions were given, there was still not
an epd put to the suit—these directions were far from
finally disposing of it. On the first day of fast term there
were altogether no less thin 559 causes in the Court of
Chancery not dispcsaesd of-that is, before the Lord Chan-
cellor and the Vice-Chancellor. There were at the same
time before the Master of the Rolls; 81 cases upon excep-
tions, and 147 causes, which, with those set down for
further directions, made 266, giving a total of 825 in the
Court of Chancery. He spoke from facts wall authenti-
rated. It would be seen from the paper delivered in to
Counsel within the last fortnight, that before the Lord
Chancellor there were -20 judgments—there had been 60,
but of that number 40 hid been gotten rid of, 2Q of course
remaining. There were op the first day of term 341
causes in the Court of Chancery upoo exceptions and
farther directions; there were 106 before the 4jaoer of
'the Rolls. It would not be imagined that in making sinise
-statements he meant to cast the slightest reflection upon
any of the Learned judge!' of that Court. Of the judicial
' qualifications of thetoreat.wt Master of the Rolls, he had the
highest opinion—that Judge had made, and doubtless would
continue to make every possible exertion kr the despatch of
bossiness. The fault, it was well known, Was pot in the
Judges, hut in the system of the Court, that system rendered
it impossible for the judges to proceed ; the face was, that
the Court of Chancery
wi"---.I pow he found in a much worse
situation than when the Vice-Chancellor was appointed,
in consequence of the proceedings adopted in that House
in the year 1813, when in that and the two preceding
years the subject was brought under consideration. It it
were necessary for the loose to interfere in the year 1813,
how much more necessary was it to interfere at the pre-
sent moment. There were then before the Lord Chan-
cellor 114, cases ; Jet that he compared with the present
state of alas court, and let the House decide Whether
then, or at present, there existed the greater occasion
for interference. Before the appointment
g the Vic-
e the total mirobar in. the Coon of Chancery
was 483—from the papers on the 4171,e Of the Reuse, it
appeared that the present arrear in that Court was 595
before the Lord Chancellor, and in all 825 before the
Several Judges for the Court. The simple remedy for all
this appeared to bins to iae the separation from the great
seal of all bankrupt business, tae then proceeded to call
the attention of the House to the evidence of Mr. Hamilton,
given before• the Chancery Commission, and read front it
the following passage:—
After a cause is stet down, does delay take place in gets
ting it heard?..--In its coming on in its torn there un-
doubtedly is a delay; there is a time elapses between the
setting it down and the hearing of it; but I cannot say
that there is delay, in . the common acceptation of the
word delay.
The causes come on In their order as set down ?
Yes, causes do ; appeals du nc,t, I should say there is a

delay with respect to the hearing of causes for further di-
rections and exceptions.
Does the time which elapses before such hearing appear
to you to be greater than is necessary; and by what re-
gulations do you conceive that time should be altered ?
I see no other way than that of appointing -additional
Judges ; or the Master of the Rolls sitting in the day-
time, from ten till four, instead of the evening, from six
till ten, and also sitting more frequently than he does.
But if it had not been for circumstances, of which persons
are aware, there would not, I think, have been the arrear
there now is.

Do you allude to the illness of the late Master of the
Rolls ?—Yes.

The first step as he conceived that should be taken was,
that which he had just suggested, namely, the appointment
of some other jurisdiction to dispose of cases in bankruptcy.
Mr. Cooke, who was examined before the Commission,
gave evidence of a similar tendency. Mr. Cooke was a
gentleman well known in the profession, of high character
and consequence. Sir Launcelot Shadwell, the present
Vice-Chancellor, when at the bar, was also examined be-
fore the Commission, and he would then read a part of
the evidence given by that Judge—it was as follows :
Do you coercive that the Court, with its present powers
is capable of the discharge of the duties which are imposed
upon it ?—I think, if you had three angels, you could not
get through the business. The load of business now in
the Court is so great, that it cannot be transacted with con-
venient despatch.
Then you are of opinion that the present number of
Judges is insufficient to despatch the business of the Court
of Chancery with due expedition 7—lndeed, I am.
Can you then suggest any mode of remedying that in-
convenience?—The simplest and most efficacious mode of
remedying that, I believe, is by creating a new jurisdiction
for disposing of cases in bankruptcy.
That the House would see was the opinion of one of the
Judges—the present Vice Chancellor. He thought, and
a high authority he was upon the subject, that the amplest
remedy would be to create a new jurisdiction to dispose of
bankruptcy cases. It might be expected that the motion
with which he intended to concl►de, was offered to- the
Pouse as a complete means of redress for all the grievances
springing out of the Courts of Equity. It was not offered
as any such thing, but he thought that the present Judges
would be quite sufficient for that Court if the bankruptcy
cases were removed from it. Again, he would refer them
to the report of the Commissioners, where they would find
the following passage in the evidence of Mr, Rickersteth :
, You have practised some years as a barrister in the Coma
Of Chancery ?—Yes : since the year 1811.
During part of that time you have had extensive busi-
ness ?—A moderate share.

It must have frequently occurred to you in the course of
your practice to observe on the various delays and expenses
Which are ascribed to the proceedings in the Court of Chan-
cery ; it has probably occurred to you to propose some re-
medies for lessening or obviating those evils ; have any such
suggestions occurred to your mind ?—I conceive there are
many unnecessary delays which take place in the Court of
Chancery, and omitting the consideration of the unneces-
sary litigation, which arises from the imperfect definition,
and consequent uncertainty of the law administered by the
Court, I conceive that unnecessary delay, vexation, and ex-
pence may be ascribed to the established process and prac-
tice of the Court; to theestablished system of pleading; and
to the established mode of obtaining evidence.. The causes
of delay to which I have hitherto alluded operate during
the preparation of the case for hearing by the Court.. The
delay which happens after the case is ready for hearing,
and before it is heard, and a decree made, appears to me to
be attributable to the Court.
The evidence of Mr. Lowe he also resorted to, to esta-

blish the several positions for which he was contending.
It' would be, he observed, no change in the original Con
stitution, if the bankruptcy jurisdiction were removed
from it, for it was by statute that the branch of it was
created. The Hon. Member then adverted to the evidence

of: several professional gentlemen who were examined, and
then proceeded to express his surprise that any opposition
should he offered to the measure which he suggested. it
was a subject on which the deepest interest was felt; it
came home to men's business and bosom•.
" Jam proximus ardet

Ucalegon."
After urging the weight of the evidence to which he had
referred, and referring to the authority of Mr. Burke on
the practicability of accomplishing in any department any
reform in itself useful and necessary, he intreated the
House, for the sake of those who were suffering under the
misery of having been Chancery suitors, and who were at
the present moment rotting in gaols, to take the matter of
complaint into.tbeir most serious censideration, and enter
upon the business of reform with a hearty and sincere de-
sire of doing good. He censured the project of transfers.-
ring some portion of the business of Chancery to the Court
of Exchequer, and the desire of patronage which would
resist the separation of the bankruptcy department from
the Court. The appeal from the Lord Chancellor in his
own Court to the Lord Chancellor in the House of Lords
was, he thought, most absurd. There he sat, with a
snoring Bishop and a Scotch Peer—(A laugh)_rehearing
questions that lie had decided before. He then concluded
by mating his motion as already stated.
Lord RANCLIFFE seconded it in a very few words.
The question having been put,
Mr. TWISS thought the chief causes of the delays in
Chancery were not well understood. The delay in the
decision of a suit began from the instant it was set down
for hearing, He did not 'think it would be advisable, even
if it were practicable, to hear a cause the very day it was
put down on the paper, as was directed by a Statute of
Cromwell's, but he saw no reason why they should not be
heard within two or three weeks ; or taking the holidays
into consideration, upon an average, within two months.
Instead of that, however, a cause had to wait nearly two
years before it could be heard, after it was first put in the
paper.—( Hear, hear.)—He himself was concerned i 4 a case
against an Assurance Company, where a gentleman nearly
ninety years of age wanted to compel the payment of an
annuity. Despatelr was of the utmost importance, but in
consequence of these delays the gentleman died in poverty
before the annuity was paid.—(Hear.)—ln the Courts of
Common Law, there being generally but one issue to he
tried, the cause was decided on the first hearing; but in
Equity suits there were generally several points to be de-
cided, between each of which the enormous delay he had
mentioned occurred. The great, the overwhelming evil
then, the legislature had to repress, was the delay that oc-
curred between the sitting down of a cause and its coming
on for argument.—(Hear.)—The complaint of the inade-
quacy of the Court of Chancery to get through their busi-
ness was of yen, ancient date. So far back as the time of
Henry VIII. Fuller, in relating that Sir Thomas More,
achieved this object (on which he observes, in his quaint
way, that as More was born in Milk-street, so he was the
brightest star that ever shone in that via lactea), records
a qt?.atrain written on that occurrence, and which chews
how great a feat, even then, it was considered
When More some time had Chancellor been,
No more suits did remain:
The same shall never more he seen,
Till More he there again ;"
accordingly the benefit was .not a permanent one. No
Chancellor hardly since that time had succeeded in
keeping the arrears under. The Lord Keeper, Wil-
liams, who succeeded Lord Bacon, (pied to go into
Court two hours before day-light and continue sitting
till eight or nine o'clock at night, and that barely sufficed
to keep gown the arrears even in those days. Afterwards
they accumulated to an enormous amount, and Cromwell,
who saw where the evil arose, directed that every cause
should be beard the same (lay on which it was set down iu
the paper. This of course was found impractieable.
Neither the Lord Keeper Guildford, Lord Somers, nor
Lord Hardwicke, had been able to . succeed in keeping the
business under. It was idle, then, to talk of the arrear
of business now depending upon the incapacity of the
Jiulgt:e, when it was evident that they were not numerous
enough for the labour they had t 9 perform. We had now
four Equity Judges—the Chancellor, the Master of the
' Rolls, the Vice-Chancellor, and the Chief Baron of the
Exchequer, which last, however, had rarely time to devote
to ei,nity part of his duty. As these Judges were upon
an average sixty yeara of age, and had most of them past a
life of intense study, it could not he expected that they
should always all be in sound health. But even if they
were, and exerted themselves to the utmost, it was impos-
sible for them to keep the arrears completely under. Sir
John Leaeh; with all his acknowledged talents and indus-
try, was not able to' do it. One reason of this might
be that multitUdes, who were deterred by the delays an()
vexations of a Chancery proceeding from aasertieg their
jUit righta, whep they found there was a Judge who
exerted himself extraordinarily to despatch the business
brought before bins, rushed in with their claims, and
overwhelmed him. It might be said, that, since the times
he had mentioned, the Chancellor had been relieved of part
of his ditties, by the appointment of a Vice Chancellor; but
the relief thus afforded him was far counterbalanced by the
increased cpiantity of bankrupt business, lunatic commis-
sions, and. other miscellaneous matters which now came
before him. Besides,' the number of reported cares had
increased to such an enormous extent Within the laSt fifty
years, that the arguments of Counsel on them, and the re-
view of them by the Judge, occupied more time than it was
possible for a atranger to conceive. The value of the'pro-
perty too, now decided upon, ought to be taken into con •
sideration, when they compared the present businesa of the

Court with what it -was heretofore. There Was in the
hands of the Accountant in 1740, the sum of 1,230,0001.
In 1820, it increased to 34,000,000/. What there was
at present in the Accountant's hands he had no official do-
cuments by which to judge, but it could not be esti-
mated at less than 40,000,0001. This gradual accumu-
lation was not to be attributed to any want of zeal or
ability in the Judges.—(Cheers.)—Thee predecessors of
the present Judges had not, however, been able' to
keep the liminess under. How then could it be expected,
in the, present more complicated interests of society, that it
should be done now. The present Master of the Rolls,
the oldest Equity Judge, was celebrated for his diligence.
The Vice-Chancellor had only occupied his seat half-a-
year, but he had shown no want of despatch. The Lord
Chancellor had now occupied his elevated station a year,
and he would take the liberty of saying, and he knew it
from personal observation, that he had devoted himself to
the business of the Court with the utmost assiduity, not
profiting by the unsettled state of political affairs at any
time to absent himself from it. And when Lord
Lyndhurst was in Court no time was wasted, his
attention being most intensely devoted to the business
before him. He had, indeed, shewn that he possessed, in
an eminent degree, that faculty of mind mentioned
last session by the Hon. Member for Winchelsea, most
essential to the attainment of forensic eminence, the fa-
culty of separating the essential from the mere trash of a
case. Yet what was the situation of those Judges ? Out
of Court they were assailed by the vulgar for delays occa-
sioned by the system, and not by them. In Court they
had no sooner taken their seat, than a crowd of suitors
pressed them upon the urgency of their case. Numerous,
however, as were the suitors, and injured as they were by
the delay, far greater was the amount of injury done to
those who were deterred from coming into Court by the
fate of those they saw there. He was proud of the reputa-
tion the English Courts of Law had obtained for their im-
partiality; but he feared, if something were not soon done,
all their impartiality would consist in shutting the door of
justice against both parties. This was not what a man
living in civilized society had a right to expect. He gave
up a portion of his liberty in order to be secured in his
property, and if justice were denied or delayed him, the
compact was broken with hint. In the dawn of legisla-
tion, at the framing of Magna Charta, the close analogy
between delay and denial of justice was seen. Nulli nega-
binius, nulli diffiretnus justitiam, were the the words
used by its framers. He feared that the delay of justice
now almost amounted to a denial of it.--(Hear, hear.)---
The tide of business was now pressing upon them faster
than it could be got under, and must shortly overwhelm
them. The question then remained—how was it to
be got rid of. Some seemed to think that it would be
sufficient to disburthen the Great Seal of the bankrupt
eases ; but those who suggested that, forgot that the great
majority of these cases now came before the Vice-Chan-
cellor, so that any measure of that kind would afford the
Chancellor but little relief. Besides, in spite of what was
said by the Hon. Member who had made this motion, he
thought it would be too great a Constitutional change to
take the bankrupt cases from under the jurisdiction of the
Chancellor. The proper remedy seemed to him (Mr.
Twiss) not to be difficult, and what he was about to men-
tion seemed to be the prevalent opinion. Let the equita-
ble jurisdiction of the Court of Exchequer be transferred
to the Court of Chancery, and• the Court generally thrown
open to the assistance of the other Courts of Common Law.
The Chief Baron could be made an entire Equity Judge,
and as it would be necessary to fill up the Court of Ex-
chequer another Judge must be created. If, in addition
to that, the Master of the Rolls were to sit in the day in-
stead of the evening, and every day instead of occasionally,
they would have three Equity Judges sitting simultaneously,
without having any thing but the business of the Court to
attend to. One good effect of this would be to divide the
Bar, who now seemed eager to grasp at every thing, sa-
crificing relaxation, general information, and even needful
rest, in order to attend all the Courts. Then also there
would be time to do things well, instead of quick, and the
public would not as now ask which despatches most busi-
ness, but which decides most justly. He would not ven-
ture positively to say that the business would thus all he
got through, but at any rate it was worth the trial. With
regard to the expence of the new Judge, he thought a
means might be adopted to make it a saving instead of
loss to the public. The Commissioners of Bankrupts in
the country on the present system, were a great expenee.
At least one-half of it might he saved by appointing
Commissioners with a salary of three hundred pounds
each. Out of the saving effected by a change of system
on this point, the additional Equity Judge might be paid.
That seemed to him the best plan that could be adopted ;
but whatever course the House took, he trusted it 'would'
not sanction the opinion spread abroad, particularly by the
public press, that a great deal of time would be saved by the
separation of what was called the legal character from the
political character of the Lord Chancellor.—(Hear.)—Even
if it would, save time, he did not think it ought to be done,
upon Constitutional grounds. They would not relieve
him from the charge of hearing appeals in the loose
of Lords, but if they did, would they like to have some
other, an inferior, lawyer, as permanent Speaker, to
take his place there ? If not that, would they make
the post an object of political interest, or of family in-
fluence? Nothing so much as that would tend to under-
mine the respect felt for the nobility, and the reverence
for the authority of the Crown. What was the cause of
the reverence the people entertained for the aristocracy,
but the consciousness that it sprung from themselves, and
that it was possible for any of them, by industry and
talent, not only to be equal to any noble in the land, but to
be placed at the head of the whole body ?—Would this
feeling continue to be entertained, if this great reward were
withdrawn from the reach of the people at large, and put
within the power of hereditary nobility only ? He trusted
that the House, while they got rid of the abuses of the
system, would preserve the system itself uninjured ; and
that as it had escaped front the tempests to which it had
been exposed in the ages that were passed, so it would es-
cape from those which were to come.
—" Non hyenaes illam, non &bra, neque imbres
" Convellunt : imrnota menet, multosque per annos
" Multa virum volvens durando inscula vincit."
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—The two questions
that appeared to have been raised were, " should a fourth
Judge of Equity be constituted ;" or, " was it advisable to
withdraw the jurisdiction in cases of bankruptcy from, the
Court of Chancery." There had been four, or five, or
six plans proposed by various gentlemen for the relief of
the Court, but there was no suggestion in which any thing
like a common consent could he obtained. He was not
prepared to admit the necessity of appointing a fourth
Equity Judge—a proposition which, though it had not
been made, was, nevertheless, implied in the motion of '
the Hen. Member for Durham, Others, as he said be-
fore, suggested the utility of separating bankruptcy cases
from the great seal; but he was not convinced of the pro-
priety of doing so. The object of the Hon. Member's'
motion was, to pledge the House to an abstract resolution,
which no man was ready to carry into practical effect. It
was only twelve years since the Court of Chancery had
received the assistance of a third Judge, and when the ap-
pointment was first proposed it was generally asserted
that a third Judge was not necessary ; and that the delays
and arrears of business were solely attributable to the pro-
crastinating temper of Lord Eldon (the then Chancellor).
Now, however, the proposition was made to introduce a
fourth Judge. If he thought the business of the Court
could not be executed without the help of a fourth Judge,
he would agree to his appointment. It was his opinion,
that the Court of Chancery stood in need of some relief ;
but after a long knowledge of, and commerce with, that
Court, during a lapse of 24 years, he could not make up
his mind to assent to the prppositiop that a fourth Judge
was necessary. If any Gentleman was prepared to state a
consistent plan to the House, or to point out any effective
mode, by means of which the state of our Equity jurispru-
dence could be benefitted, he (the Attorney-General) would
give it his roost attentive consideration.
Mr. HARVEY said, the Hon. and Learned Member
who last addressed the House, spoke of the grievances of
the Court of Chancery as if they were in their infancy,
and had not exercised so great an iefinepce over the midis
lion of a large portion of the community. The Learned
Gentleman was himself a daily memorial and hourly wit-
! ness of the defects• of that Court, and largely Jiad he
thriven by their existence; it was not, therefore, his inte-
rest to put an end to them. It was idle tp deny that
the great impediment to improvement in the Court of
Chancery was attributable to the lawyers themselves,—
(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Member for Wooton
llasset had treated the subject with great ability, in a
speech distinguished for talent and acute discrimination--
(Hear, hear)--yet be (Me. Harvey) would have been better
pleased if the proposition for the appointment of a fourth
Judge—a proposition, in the necessity of which be did not
concur---had proceeded from some Member whose profes-
sional avocations did not lay him open to the suspicion of
consulting Lis own personal advantage in making it. As ,
matters were now conducted, a Chancery suit--fracing it
through all its stages-.--was, from the beginning to ita close,
one unvarying series of roinoos and extravagant expense.
(Hear, hear.) If the law were simplified in its principles,
and rendered more reasonable in its practice-,—if those in-
tricate forma and yolotninous pleadings, the means by which
lawyers flourished and suitors decayed—if thole points
were investigated with a view to their reformation, the
opprobrium now resting upon the science and practice of
the law would he speedily removed, and we should be

relieved from the disgrace of having a law for the rich,
which was so unequal in its operation as neither to be
suited to the circumstances nor within the reach of the
poor.—(Cheers.) He haPpened to have now in his hands
the copy of a bill of costs incurred in a cause in which his
Majesty's Attorney-General was plaintiff. The object of
the proceeding: in the course of which the costs had accrued
was to investigate a supposed misapplication and diversion
from their, original purpose of certain funds formerly con-
verted for benevoknt purposes at Hampstead or Highgate.
It was at Highgate ; the suit in question related to what
was generally known as the Highgate Charity. In this
cause a Bill was filed, or, more correctly and technically
speaking, an information was filed by the Attorney-Gene-
ral, for the purpose of investigating the nature of the pro-
perty and its application ; in a word, to ascertain, if pos-
sible,' the original design and present appropriation of the
funds, with a view of -seeing
.how far the intention of the
founder.; had been carried into effect. This, one Would
think, was a subject of inquiry, which, though it might
be interesting to the public,.was sufficiently easy and prac-
ticable. The parties to the inquiry were ready to give all
the information which it was in their power to afford.
Moreover, it was a case in which the funds of the charity
ought to have been saved by all practicable means, at least,
so people would imagine. But what had been the result
of the investigation? This—the costs on one side alone
amounted to from three to four thousand pounds. When
Hon. Members came to analyse the Bill, and investigate
the several items of which it was composed, which they
might do if they thought proper, they would at once per-
ceive how little attention had been paid, in our projected law
reforms, to that which constituted the principal cause and
source of expense, not only in this, but in similar proceedings.
He said it without anyinvidious feeling, without meaning to
affix a stigma or impose unnecessary odium on the high clia-
Meter and great learning of the gentlemen of the bar—but
he must say, that while he thought he could perceive an
anxiety among legal reformers to press upon the subordi-
nate branches of the profession and cast upon their mem-
bers the principal blame' of delay and expence—he might
any, that what was paid to the solicitors was, as compared
Stith the receipts of the barristers, scarcely in the propor-
tion of 13s. 4d. to 20 guineas.—(Hear.)—From tha Bill
which he held in his hand, it appeared that the office
4ies alone of the information filed in this case by tl e At-
tisrney-General, and having for its object to ascertain the
real state and appropriation of property devised for cha-
ritable purposes one hundred and fifty years since—the office
espies cost the parties no less than 801.—(Cheers. )—When
this con of the infornsatiop was reduced to the, shape of a
brief, together with the instructions and remarks of the so-
licitor, it was handed to the leading counsel, whose fist fee
amounted to 88/. 45. ; while the Learned Gentleman second
in rank received 66/. as his fee. After this it would not
appear surprising that the total amount of the Bill was more
than 3,000/. Though it was particularly desirable that the
disposition and determination of causes should be as rapid as
possible, there were other points in the administration of jus-
tice equally requiring consideration with the speedy disposi-
tion of causes. He asked had there ever been any commis-
sion appointed—any incidental or government inquiry into
these prominent points set on foot. Yet, without suds an
inquiry, it was impossible to have a system of justice at all
answering to the meaning of that term, or embracing
principles of equity and public utility. The Right Hon.
and Learned Member (the Attorney-General) would not
concur in any plan which was not nicely proportioned to
the subtleties of the existing system ; and perhaps no plan
could be devised which the keen ingenuity of that Right
Hon. Gentleman would not he able to expose, not only as
inapplicable and unfit, but ludicrous and absurd. On
whom should the duty of finding a remedy for the existing
evil devolve ?—(Hear.)---For what purpose had they a
Government--(Cheers)---or dignitaries of the law, if not
to place justice upon a fair foundation ?—(Loud Chisels.)
The Hon. Member proceeded to argue against the pro-
priety of allowing a jurisdiction in cases of bankruptcy to
remain in the hands of the Lord Chancellor. It was a
jurisdiction, to administer which, in nine oases out of ten,
every merchant in the city of London, was snore capable
than the Commissioners of Bankrupts, because, generally
speaking, it involved questions solely of a commercial maul e.
Commissioners of Bankrupts were either young and brie4less
barristers, or men who had grown old in making the
round of the Courts without obtaining employment. In
either case the 3001. or 4001. a year attached to the office,
was eagerly seized upon, and Commissioners of Bankrupts
were fashioned out of the infancy or superannuation of
the profession. Having contrasted the superior efficiency
and cheapness of the Insolvent with the Bankrupt Laws,
the Honourable Gentleman went. on to describe the hank-
rupt jurisdiction, at present vested in the Court of Chan-
eer,,, as affording support, to a colony of professional de-
pendents, and pointed.to this circumstance as the only satis,
factory reason fOr the reluctance felt by Government to
sever bankruptcy cases from the Great Seal. The Corn t
of Chancery was so clogged and loaded with abuses that
it had almost ceased to he an individaal execration,and ha‘;
become a public
_curse. Isle was surprised no allusion had
been as yet made to a little volume lately put forth from
the Court of Chancery, anti containing eighty-one orders
for its regulation. Perhaps, some half dozen of these or-
ders might he beneficial; but, taking them as a h
expected little good from them. As he had no disposition
to exaggerate their defects, neither had he any desire to con-
ceal their merits. If these orders, instead of having pro-
•ceeded from the high and unimpeachable legal authority
whence they had originated, had been framed by some knot
of briefless junior barristers pining for employment, and
eager, by whatever means, to obtain it, he should have
pronounced it impossible for any scheme to have been de-
vised better calculated to insure success, or any stratagem
to have been resorted to more deserving of contempt.
(Hear.) Every rule was an order—every order a motion
—and both a fee. (Loud cheering.) It was the ill fois•
tune of every man who ever had any thing to do with the
Court of Chancery to he aware of its defects. There was
not a gentleman in the House, and scarcely a man in the
country, who, if not in his own person, yet in behalf of
somebody else for whom he was interested, but hail ac-
quired this information from dear-purchased experience.
It would be a waste of time to say any thing more to esta-
blish the proposition that our Chancery system was mon-
strously hideous and deformed as it regarded the principles
of law—odious for its tardiness—dangerous for its uncer-
tainty—ruinous in point of expence—and, generally speak-
ing, unequal, cruel, and oppressive in its operation.
(Loud cheering.)
Mr. SUGDEN said it was not without great 91 a prise
be had heard the Hon. Member for Colchester sp.; ik of
the Court of Chancery as " a public curse"—(Loud cheers
from the Opposition side of the House)—but that stu prise
was greatly increased when he heard Gentlemen who, from
their station and rank in life, must be supposed to be in
some degree acquainted with the Court of Chancery, unite
in cheering the Hon. Member's expression so loudly. (In-.
creased and continued cheering from the Opposition.) Si
he thought that mode or degree of disapprobation appli-
cable to the Court of Equity, he would quit itinstatiter
but he would say, in the face of the country, that Court
was not open to the imputations cast upon it. (Laughter
from the Opposition' side.) And while it existed as a
Court of Justice, those only who were tending to produce
public disorder in the administration of justice, spoke of it
in such terms of disapprobation within the walls of that
House; such ought not to be the case—it ought not to be
exposed to public odium—a Court which had confer' ed so
many important benefits on the country. (Cheers and
laughter.) Gentlemen might cheer on, and though, as he
was not used to speaking in that House, those cheers
might daunt him now, but he hoped the time would come
when, unaffected by such signs, he should be able to ad-
dress the House with more effect, and obtain a hearing
without interruptien.--s(Cheers.) If Gentlemen would
enquire, they would discover that those who found fault
with the House consisted chiefly of fraudulent trustees, or
—(Overwhelming murmurs, and cries of no, no.) He
hoped no gentleman there would think he alluded to him,
or to any within those walls. It was in the very
nature of the peculiar jurisdiction of the Com t of
Chancery to prevent despatch. A Court of Law could
decide qne action at a time, and at once, and leave
the parties to bring another action on another point,
but when the Court of Equity decided a case, it decided
that case finally for ever ; and, therefore, it was necestary
to bring all the parties before the Court. Then the nature
of the case consisted of long and intricate accounts— lark
frauds which took a long time to be examined and un-
ravelled. It was impossible for a human tribunal to deal
with them otherwise than by long consideration. He woultl
contend it was impossible to put down the jurisdiction of
the Court of Equity. As to the long interval saii
to
occur between the setting down of a cause for hearing an
the time of hearing, he did not believe the representation
correct. He held accounts in his hand of the quantity of
business done in a branch of Equity for the last three years,
and they would find that the despatch was such as ren-
dered it unnecessary for that House to interfere with
the Court of Chancery. The Master of the Rolls and the
Vice-Chancellor decided 1,022 causes in Ib2o. 'the
reason why they did not despatch as great a number in the
last two
alytpeoarsintwedas v becausei t
hin
thatthere s h p
acad
e, beenand
i tistv c
required some
time after a Judge was appointed before lie could be so
master of the business of his Court as to use the ordinary
despatch. It was not correct, as had been said by the llc ri.
Member for Wootton Basset, that a year, or seven terms,
passed between the setting down of a cause and the hear
in. in 1827 the Master of the Rolls disposed of 540