The Sun.
London, England, 1828-05-31 00:00:00

only say that they were charges which ought to be put an
end to immediately.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
not give the Hon. Member for •Aberdeen any answer
as to what was the law of Mexico, but he could give him
a decided answer as to the fact _respecting which he in-
quired. When the Ministers for Mexico exchanged the
ratifications of a treaty of amity. and commerce with the
Ministers of this country, they made a present to the
amount of 1,0001. to the Ministers of England, and the
Government of England, according to diplomatic courtesy,
was expected to return, and did return, a present to the
same amount. ' .

lir. HUME had long said that a stop should be put to
this exchange of presents with foreign Ministers, which he
looked upon as nothing else but bribery and corruption.—
(Loud laughter.) He would ask the Hon. Secretary for
the Home Department whether we ought not, after all the
pains which we had been recently taking to snake electors
honest, to take some pains to mike the high officers of state
honest too.

Captain O'NEILL wished to know whether the Hon.
Member for Aberdeen wished to reduce those-who repre-
sented the Majesty of England to this wretched condition—
that they should receive presents from foreign powers, and
should not-be allowed to make them in return ?
Mr. HUME thought that it would be a great saving to
every country, if a stop were put to this practice of snaking
and receiving presents. He did not impute dishonesty or
Want of delicacy to the Ministers who made and received
such presents, for the State allowed it, and therefore no
blame could be attributed to them in their private capacity
as men of honour. What he wished was to see the prac-
tice put an end to. There was another item in these esti-
rnates, which appeared to him to require some explanation.
There was a charge of 1,2001. odd, for " robes, collar,
and garter for the Emperor of Russia, K.G., and water-
men's badges." What was the meaning of this charge for
" watermen's badges ?"
Mr. DAWSON.—The charge for waterman's badges
was only 651., the rest MIS for the robes, collar, and garter,
presented to the Emperor of Russia, :on installing him
a Knight of the Order of the Garter. These two charges
were usually classed in this manner together.
Mr. HUME, whilst upon this subject, wished' to know
whether there was any truth in the rumour that the fees
of the gentlemen recently elevated to the Peerage for their
diplomatic services, had been paid by the Treasury ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured
tl.e Hon. Member for Aberdeen that there was not the
slightest foundation for such a report. —The grant was then
agreed to.

Mr. DAWSON proposed that a sum not exceeding
29,000/. should be granted to his Majesty to defray the
salailes and allowances to the officers of the House of
Lords and Commons for 1828.

Mr. HUME.—Why is this charge greater this year
than for several of the years which have preceded it ? In
1824 only 21,000/. was asked for this vote; in 1826,
only 23,000!. Why were they now to grant 29,000/. ? I
understood the Right I-lon. Gentleman opposite to say,
When he brought forward his budget at the commencement
of the session, that there was to be a reduction of
1,200,0001. in this branch of the public estimates. Was
it in this manner that the reduction was to be made?

Mr. DAWSON could not conceive that his Right Hon.
Friend near him could have promised to Make a reduction
of nearly a million and a-half in a branch of the public ex- '
penditure which did not cost the country at the outside
more than 600,0001. The reason why the sum asked for
this vote was larger in the present year than in several for-
mer years was, that the balance, which had remained in
hand for same years past, was now entirely exhausted.
Mr. 1-11J14IE never expected that the Right Hon.,.Gen--
tleman would make a saving of 1,200,0001. in these esti-
mates. He appealed, however, to the House whether the
Right Hen. Gentleman had not promised to make a reduc-
tion to that amount in the estimates generally.
Mr. MABERLY was of opinion, that a vote of this
amount ought not to be submitted to the consideration of
the Committee without a single line in explanation of it.
lie thoUght that it ought not only to be stated in detail,
hut to be referred annually to a select committee to decide
on its correctness. •

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—This
vote consists of a number of small charges made annually
and paid annually. The.details have been often given be-
fore, and therefore it was deemed unnecessary to repeat
them on the present occasion.
Sir J. NEWPORT—If these charges were made an-
nually and paid annually, what need is the, e of Laving any
balance In hand? The terms to
the same.

Alr. DAWSON—The charge must vary according to
the labour done by the engrossing Clerks, and according to
thenumber.of days-which the two Houses sit. If any
Hon. Gentleman wishes for a detailed account of the man-
lier in which the grant, is to be expended, there can be no
possible objection .trrhffording it.
Mr. 11. GHAVrAllollected to' granting 6001. a:year
to Major Powell, Inspector,gerieral of police in the Leinster
district. He had got upwards of 40;000/. or 50,0001. of
the public money by some fraud or other, and had in con=
sequence been suspended by the Irish Government.. Was
it right. to. make any further grant of public money to
such a man? •

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
know any thing accurately of the circumstance .to which
the Hon. Member referred.. He had never heard of any
charge having been made against Mr. kowell either for
fraud or for perversion, of the public money. He under-
stood that the money taken from the public had been taken
by one of Alajor Powell's clerks, and that the worst part
of the charge against him was, that he had not sufficiently
exercised his vigilance over that clerk. He was sure that
the lion. Member for Dublin would hereafter be sorry for
what he had that night said. lie spoke doubtfully on the
point at present, for he had no official information ; but he
wanld take care to make all requisite inquiries on the sub-
ject, before the period olthe next meeting of the House.
Sir J. NEWPORT thought, that as this officer had
been suspended, it was a little too much to vote him so
large a grant of the public money.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was
understood to say that this sum was due to Major Powell,
for his travelling expences in the course of last year.
. _

Sir J. NEWPORT said that it was in evidence ,before
some committee (we did not hear the name) that he had
not visited any county but his own for some years past.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER conceived

that this could not be the case, for in the last year in
. _

which he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had been in
Ireland, he knew that this officer had visited several

coN utie.

Mr. J. GRATTAN trusted that the Committee would
look with some attentiod to the expellees of the Police in
Ireland. The grand juries had found that they could not
check them, for they were told: on all occasions that' their
expences were such as ware regularly allowed at the Castle.
After a few,observations to the same effect from Mr.

BUTLER, thin grant was agreed to.
Mr. DAWSON proposed that a sum not exceeding
16,0001. he granted to his Majesty to defray the expenses
of the Houses of Lords and Commons for 1128.
After a- few words from Mr. 11u3.1E, this grant was
agreed to.
Mr. DAWSON then proposed that a sum not exceeding

. .
ps,,ilst, bp granted to his Majesty for the purpose of
Maliing good the deficiency of the fee fund in the depart-
ment of his Majesty's Treasury, Home Secretary of State,
Foreign Secretary of E.-..—,i-gtcretary of State for the Co-
lonies, Most Hon. Privy Council, and the Committee of
Council for Trade for 182 i.
Mr. HJThIE said, . that this was not the regular mode
f puttiq, this grant. It was usual to rut, in the Aral ip-
sLoo, to the yote the slim waniA to make goOd the dec-.
ciency of the fee fund in the Treasury. That stun amount-
ed in the present year to 21,0001. He believed that tke
House was not aware that the expense of the Treasury
amounted annually to 80,5421. The salaries amounted tq
pt,pea ; the incidFitts to 122q0P1.; and the superanun-
ations and stationary to 12,0001. ,He concluded by,
repeating 'his •stateinent that this mode of voting was irre •
gular.

Mr. DAWSON contended that the inQtle whirl; kiG
124 atl-o:ted was the tisintil mode of putting this vote. He
believed.that the HMI: Metnber for qberbrothoek was nais.
taken as to The mount of salaries paid in the Treasury.
Mr. HUMB Contended that he was not mistaken, for
spoke from a retum maJe li;st yeah' to too ttuuse'by the.
ri*Fasry. In 1114, the winile es*ce of Use department
Of Treastiry was not more than 44,000/. The expense
of it now was' twice as much as forinerly—why was this the
case ? lie also wish4to know ivhat was the tr.744ing
. the charge yiar4ants,
bArit'Sbt4' said that the charge was made fur the
payment' of, the issue of nets.patents to the Lords 'Of the
11'reasury,whAlr,• owing to recent'events, had been mote
frequently issued of late ttlatt foroll4l,Yl
P.! 141444 was nt opinion that, these fees on patents
aught' tolie 'abolished,' foe nothing could be more abaurd
in principle than the•enforcement of them. He wished,
Whilst, this grant was before the committee to make one
observation on the expenditure of the department,
win9h amoyited this year to 05;0004 Ambng the items
of whicht it was made'up, lie saw one containing a charge
of a ihansand.posmds to 111 r. James Stephen, as counsel to
that board. He likewise saw another item of -charge of
:AM. to the same individual as conusel to the Board of
Trade. Now, he belieyed Mr, Jaws* Stephen to he in his