The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-31 00:00:00

cause defining the law made no allusion whatever to the ques-
i I in of special or general warrants, and certainly after the
doubts which had been raised upon this point the Noble I ail
ought to have sated, clearly and distinctly, whether it was
necessary that a general or a special warrant should he issued.
It had been admitted by the Lord Chief Justice that general
ae ants could only be used except where a system of espio-
nage was carried on by the Government, and he asked the
House whether they were willing to establish such a system
as this, in preference to at once defining distinctly and clearly
whether a special or a oeneral warrant should be used. Now,
let them look to the second clause, but before directing atter-es
riots to that part he must protest against the doctrine laid down
by the Noble Earl, that although the House might have to
alter every word of the Bill, yet if they agreed with the prin-
eiple it enumerated they ought to support the second reading.
tti 11, then, the second clause (emoted that in ease any credi-
ble information should be given to the Secretary of State,
;hat the safety of the Sovereign or the Government was likely
•o be endangered, or the peace of the country likely to be dis-
turbed. it shall be lawful for the Secretary of State to issue
liis warrant for the detention or opening of letters, &c. Now,
lie was at a loss to understand the real meaning of this clause.
Information was to be given to the Secretary of State? Nt hat
information? Ought it not to be, If ieformatien shall be
:riven to the Secretary of State of the acts and teoceedings of
cry person or persons likely to en; anger the peace of the
Calm; ry, then, &c."
The Earl of RADNOR—We can alter that in Committee.
Lord STANLEY—Of course they might, but he was dis-
cussing the Bill as it stood, arid not a Bill which some other
Nonle Lord might subsequently bring in.—( liver, hear.) Ile
c• Wet not agree with the doss, me that the safety of the Go-
es rnment, or peace or seeu•ity of the realm were the only con-
siderations which should re user it necessary or expedient that
poser should be applied. The Noble Earl exchaled si-
ineether the majority a the cases where the exercise of this
pincer was necessary for the detection or punishment of crime.
—( Hear, hear.) But what did the Noble Earl mean by the
I e.ce or security of the realm ? Did he mein the internal
peace, or the danger of involving this country in foreign war ?
Now he would not conceal his opinion upon this tart of the
glestion, and although a great deal had been said about the
tights of hospitality in tbis country, he did nit think, tinder
existing circumstances, that a foreigner should be allowed
to use our Post-office for disturbing the peace of foreign
S ates, and thus involving thia country in a fereign war?
V. hen the Noble Lord said that the information must be
signed, he evinced an ignorance of the spirit of the original en-
eetment, which disentitled his counsel to all weight or cons:-
leration. Why, a more effectual mode coull not be adopted
ler preventing the forwarding of all, except perhaps anonye
moo., cemmunicatiors. With respect to the provision of
sendire; back the letter with a mark tha it had been opened.
a more absurd propositi •n could not he advanced. It would
teed to give a clue to the operations of Government, frustrate
the attire as well as the spirit of the power previous 4 eenceded,
and tender r.ugatory the best efforts of the State. As to the
pate islou for allowing the party whose letter had been opened
to le ire e his action at law for damages, and requiring the Sect,-
tit. % or Lord-Lieutenant to give up the information, or a cer-
tia, d eery of it, would be ineffectual to repress any abuse, and
be ught only with difficulties and absurdities. He would
suppose a wrone letter opened by mistake, an invitation to
dime r, a tailor's bill, or other communication equally unim-
I ortent.—( A laugh.) Well, the Postmaster was to notify that
the let or had been opened by warrant of the Secretary, and
that no necessity existed for its further detention. The Secre-
ts! y wits to give up the information, together with the name of
the informant, and the convivial friend er the tailor allowed to
bring his tuition for the violation of his secret.--(Laughter. )
lie admitted that the power vested in the Secretary of
era,e was obnoxious and open to unquestionable abuse,
Luz. he thought, also, there was a sufficient security in the
character of the country, und in the honour of the individual
3lenthers of both parties in Parliament. Relying on this as-
surance, and wholly doubting the expediency of the Noble
East's 1 reposition, he should move that the reading of the Bill
be piss:par d till that day six months.
Lord DENMAN considered that the measure was of too
vast importance, both as regarded the interests of the com-
munity anti the character of that House, to have beets dealt
with in the flippant manner adopted by the Noble Lord the
Secretary for the Colonies. He would not pursue that course,
nor adopt the see-saw opinions contained in the report of the
Select Committee—a report evincing only the different siews
of each individual member. In 1657 the Post-office was
first established, and in the 12th of Charles If. the same in-
stitution was placed on a more satisfactory basis; but it wss
not till the reign of Anne that a provision was made for the
delivery of letters in the universal method subsequently
adopted. He had heard with surprise the Noble Lord state
that the detached suggestions which he had thrown out when
the subject was first brought before Parliament were to be
received as the opinions of the Chief Justice. A Noble
Lord doubted whether every letter which was to be
opened ought not to be described. Why, it was absurd that
every letter could be yointed out ; it was likely that instead of
the particular letter being at once discovered, others might be
opened. Was he, therefore, to be held up as a patron of
espionage, because he gave that view of the subject—bee-seise
he said that letters might be opened under the Act of Parlia-
ment, the powers contained in which he condemned as incon-
sistent with the liberty of the people, and which was intended
to cever State delinquencies.—( Hear, hear.) He trusted,
theretee, that the Noble Lord, who could not have heard the
del tees which had taken place in that House on the foubject,
would not attribute to hint that he was an advocate of the sys-
tem of opening letters. It was not fair thus to deal with any,
one holding the public office he did, and who, of all men, de-
tested the practice—Olga/I—an odious and hateful practice
which the feelings of all men must especially condemn.
Beture they came to a decision it would be welt to consider
Whitt would be the course which juries would adopt with respect
to the question of opening letters. They were apt to be car-
ried away by their feelings. The Secretary of State for the
Home Department had stated in the House of Commons that
he had no objection to their regulating the power which the
Act gave him over letters passing through the Post-office. He
(Sir J. Graham) treated the trowel' as a most odious one, and
one which he would wish to get rid of. Then, why should not
the practice be an the hands of Parliament if it was to be exer •
cised at all ? In the time of Charles 11., no Act was in force
giving the Government this power, but a declaration was issue/
le, the King, giving his Government the power to open th
It tar of letters of an individual passing through
the Post-office. When that Monarch was carousing
with his courtiers, nothing could he more entertainitee
than to open the letters of the nobility and gentry. But be did
net think it was fair to invest the power of opening letters in
the present day in the hands of an officer of the Crown, ovce
evt ry other individual in the land. It was a calumny upon
them hat such a subject should have been so frequently brought;
forward. They had all felt ashamed of the disgraceful pro.
ceedings which were carried on under the system.—( Hear.)
Mazzini only discovered by an accident that his letters had
been opened. Had he not made this discovery, it was not uts
lit ly that it might have remained in secrecy for a number of
years. One hundred years back the power might be rendered
available for the purposes of obstructing an election, or of de-
feating by secret means the Government then in power. From,
the memeirs of Lord illalmsbury it appeared thst the practice
teas then in use. In a letter from Mr. Canning to that
noblemsn, he expiessed his surprise that his letters had
been opened. Mr. Fox, writing at
_the commencement of the
French war, said he should have !iii" letters directed by an-
other hand, and sealed with another seal, as they would be
opened at the Post-sffice. The same expressions were made
use of by Mr. Burke and Horace Walpole. In the work to
which he had alluded, it was stated, that the Minister of
Catherise 11., of Russia, was in the habit of writing letters
with various signatures, which he knew would be opened at
the Post office, and which would have the effect of injuring
his enemies and serving his friends. But he (Lord Denman t
conceived that the power in this country was utterly useless,
and derogatory to the high character of the natien.—( Hear,
hear.) The Committees which had been appointed to eon-
rider the subject, had not reported as to any benefits which
were derived from the practice. Information so obtained was
likely to be fallacious, and they were liable to fall into their
own snares. So almost invariably was information obtained
from spies, and the money paid to them fur their information
was as invariably thrown away.—(Hear, hear.) He therefore
called upon them to assent to the second reading of
the Bill which his Noble Friend had introduced.
God forbid that the scenes of 1842 should be ever again re-
peated. They had not, however, been met or put down by the
system which had been resorted to of opening and detaining
the letters of those who were supposed to be implicated in
those disturbances. The unhappy men who were engaged in
them were defeated by the firmness of the Government, the
temperance of the police, and the good spirit of the coun-
try. The present Bill might be open to great objections, but
it would prevent many of the abuses which had sprung up,
during the existence of the system. Ii it would only put an
end to the hateful practice of interfering in the concerns of
foreign Governments it would havea beneficial effect. It would
confine the system to our own country. He did net see why
they should lend themselves as police officers for other States.—
( ear,hear.)
Hear, had no doubt but the Noble Lord
opposite
had been influenced by the best intentions in the
course he had adopted ; but when he heard some people.
state that there was no great harm even if the individuals on
account of whom the letters had been opened were shot, he
thought their interference was extremely dangerous. On the
same grounds, the Pope, the King of Niples, France, and the
Emperor of Russia, might claim their interference. They
might even by this means be playing into the hands of their
enemies, and betraying the interests of the country ; for in
Spain and Portugal it was not easy to knot who was in pos-
session of power. He did not believe that Sir Robert Peel,
even, would forget the cheers which accompanied the announce-
ment that the Alien Act was gone. He did not apprehend
teat it was necessary to ei ter into any defence of the
motives which influenced the present Secretaries of State, but
they ought not to forget that very unprincipled men were once
Ministers of State in England, and such men might again be
in office. Even if they did riot abuse their trust they had suffff-
cient evidence during the summer months, in the affair of the
Derby stakes, that their underlings would do so. Frem the
report of an eminent individual, with respect to the individuals
employed in the Post-office, such persons were not proof against
the temptations which ware thrown in their way, and the ex-
perience which he himself had enabled him to confirm that
statement. The year 1844 was memorable as being the first
year when letters were opened for a foreign State. It was
ls
existence nighter twhich and
his
s crimes had bee been
adprovoked, haunted bNsyebethlheaaarPeLaPeerrhtreoedi :sr
a perfectly new and extremely dangerous practice_a thing
ut-
terly unknown to the people of England. He himself had not
known that there was any statute on the subject till after con-
siderable difficulty he found that Oliver Cromwell had been the
originator of it. It was to this brutal and hypocritical tyrant,
victories
further
nau
ne4aair
nleilihtirsuotp doounpeeeadhe influenceie,
curenrhno-oEstnronxngeexlliolis:hanpdrachtoipeeed was ttohebeNtorbalceeDd.ukeT,
wheho
twooduelteltrsorygna
titseehhis
then read extracts from liume, descriptive 'of the character
had in every respect presented such a contrast, every
signalise
of
ts'ethreoeser
still
fmort to
eadtd.outotoltihoawtetoero.—of.
lish for ever so disgraceful and unconstitutional pan °.
mea-
sures(llear'i; which 'had Hlateelwyobuelden
Ireland, a measure which would put an end to en to this abominable
practice.
Lord BROUGHAM did not concur in the severe attack
which had been made on the character of Cromwell. He con-
tended that, with all his faults and failings, be had proposed
i.nd effected many salutary commercial changes. The Noble
Lord had also been guilty of a misdemeanour, he had ietroduced
the seria ntista jocis, and alluded to the correspondence of
Gramont, in the times of Charles 11., the Merry Monarch.
Ilis Noble and Learned Friend the Lord Chief Justice had
made three charges against the Secret Committee, which
lately sat upon the Post-office. The first was, that the
Committee in their report had not defined the state of the law
on t his subject. Now he found, by the first page of the re-
p/To that the power had existed ever since the establishment of
the het-office, and had frequently been recognised, and this
he thought was a sufficient charge. The second charge was, that
the Ceinmittee had specified or suggested no remedy or refor-
mation whatever in the lax. All the Committee thought it
was better to leave it for the Legislature to determine what
alterations should be made in the law. The third charge was

that the Committee did not state what had been the utility of
the power. Now, in answer to this charge, he could only state
that, in one part of the report the Committee said that the exercise
of the power had frequently led to detection and punishment or
crime, as well as to the recovery of iroperty. With regard to
the Rill itself, he entirely concurred in what had fallen from the
Noble Lord opposite, who had certainly made a most admir-
able, and, he might add, a strictly legal speech against the
measure.

Lori CAMPBELL liter thought, a few years age, that toe
hould have had occasion to (Wend his Noble Friend- the Chief