The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-02 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

On the motion for going into Committee of Supply,
Mr. S. CRAWFORD rose to move an amendment
on the subject of the petitions presented to that House,
complaining that the House of Commons did not repre-
sent the people. The substance of those petitions was
contained in a petition which was presented, a short
time ago, from the town of Birmingham. The allega-
tions in that petition were--firstly, that that
House did not represent the people ; secondly,
that it did not possess the confidence of the.
people • thirdly, that a large number of Mem-
bers had notoriously obtained their seats by the most
profligate bribery and corruption ; fourthly, that the
proceedings of that House were obviously influenced by
selfish, personal, and party motions, rather than by the
interests of the people. These were the . allegations
contained in that petition which had been laid on the
table of the House. He was much surprised,.in.refer-
ring to the Journals, to find that this important docu-
ment had not been published by the Committee on Peti-
tions. There had boen 31 petitions presented during the
I present session, all complaining of grievances, and he
had only found that one of those petitions had been pub-
lished. His proposition was for a Select Committee to
inquire into the subject of those petitions, and to make a
report thereon. If that House did represent the people,
.why did they not boldly and at once declare that the
allegations contained in those petitions were unfounded?
.He was not now going to advocate the extension of
the franchise, although he thought the franchise ought
to be extended. He should merely confine himself on
the present occasion to the subject of the petition to
•which he had adverted. So long as the impression ex-
isted in the minds of the people that they were not re-
presented in that House, so long would there be resist-
ance to the law ; and, under such circumstances,
the only means by which the Government in this
. country could be carried on would be that
of an extensive military force.—(Hear.) He was
surprised to hear the Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr.
T. Duncombe) express his objection to this motion, be-
cause he himself had taken a precisely, similar course.
He (Mr. S. Crawford) could assure the House that it
was not his intention to adopt any factious proceeding,
nor should he pursue any course which he thought not
calculated to be attended with success. He should,
however, on all occasions when the army estimates were
proposed, move that the military force of this country
be reduced, and he should persist in such motions until
the grievances of the people were redressed. The Hon.
Member concluded by moving—" That the several pea-
. tions which have been received and laid on the table of
this House since the commencement of the session, com-
plaining that this House is not a true representation of
the people, be referred to a Select Committee to inquire
into the said allegation ; and that the further considera-
tion of the Estimates be postponed till such Committee
shall report thereon."
Mr. BLEWITT seconded the motion. Every day's
experience convinced him that that House merely legis-
lated for themselves, and this was more particularly
shown in the late discussions on the Horse Racing
Penalties Bill, which had been introduced for the pur-
pose of screening, on the plea of ignorance of the law,
certain high personages who had violated the law. He
would like to know how a plea of ignorance of the law
would avail a poor wretch on his trial in a criminal
'court. Would that plea relieve him from the verdict
of the jury or diminish his punishment? The corn-laws,
too, were imposed merely, to put money in the
pockets of the landlords by depriving the poor of bread.
The House then divided, when there appeared

For the motion 15
Against it 9l
Majority -46
SUPPLY.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee o
Supply.
On the vote that 594,3701. be granted for the vie•
twilling of seamen and the marine forces.
Dr.BOWRING th o ugh t,that when the House was called
upon to vote away more than half a Million of money,
they should have some information in detail to justify
them in.giving their assent to it. The House ought to
know how so large a sum was applied.
Captain PECHELL opposed the employment of the
naval force in the collection of poor-rates. Several
ships of war had been employed at Castlebar, on the
coast of Galway, in conveying land-lubbers of police,
from place to place. The marine force had likewise
been employed in the same disgraceful manner. Lord
Lucan declared, that he would encourage opposition to
the collection of a new poor-rate, whilst the old one- re-
mained unpaid, and in this most unpopular and despotic
service were her Majesty's ships of war engaged. The
Hon. and Gallant Member proceeded to censure the
Admiralty for not bringing the principle of the Archime-
dian screw into more general operation. The Rattler,
which was announced by the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite, to have been ready a long time ago was not yet
completed, but was employed in running up and down
the river, testing the efficacy of Mr. Brunei's experi-
ments. The Archimedian screw had been employed in
the United States with great success, and one of the vessels
which accompanied the Royal Yacht from Treport, was
found " to be only surpassed by her Majesty's
own vessel. He congratulated the Board of Ad-
miralty on the appointment of Mr. Hall, a
most deserving officer, to the post of Commander in the
navy, and to a situation in her Majesty's yacht. They
were now going to raise 2,000 boys for the navy, but, after
three years, their term ceased, and he was glad to see
that many of them and their friends were most anxious
that they should be .re-entered. . Each boy, that was
`taken-was obliged to be 981bs. in weight, and most of
those who were reared in the Gilbert unions were
found to be qualified in that way ; but, unfortunately,
the great part of those from the other poor-law unions,
were found beneath that weight. What he was most
anxious for was that those young men, after their term
of service had expired, should not be thrown upon the
streets without the slightest resource, and be conse-
quently compelled, in the greater number of cases, to
adopt a course of dishonesty and crime. He did hope
'that the Admiralty would look closely to the 10-gun
brigs, for he considered them to be perfectly valueless.
It was true the Admiralty, in disposing of them, endea-
voured to- make the most of them—(A laugh)—for,
although they demanded 1000 E for each, they could
not get more than 5001. for any one of them.
Sir JAMES COCKBURN, in reply to the question
'which had been pat to him respecting the employment
of the officers of her Majesty's navy in collecting the
poor-rates, said that if any officer went to collect
-them he certainly misunderstood his instructions. The
only object was that wherever along the coast disturb-
ance or excitement prevailed the fleet was stationed,
and its presence. in the neighbourhood where those rates
were being collected might have led to the surmise.
However, if he could find out an officer who did so, an
investigation would at once be entered into upon the
subject. With regard to steam-boats generally, the
present administration of the Admiralty were doing all
they could to improve them, and they were endeavour-
ing to find out what construction might prove to be the
best. , He believed that after all that had been said they
could turn out a better set of steam-boats than could be
turned out on the other side. With respect to the dis •
charging-of boys when the ships were paid off, he could
only say, that the service.required that a certain amount
of men must be kept up. But he would be very glad
to retain the boys, if his Right Hon. Friend the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would allow it.—(Hear, hear,
and a laugh.) He thought that it was very useful
'that men who had entered into her Majesty's
service for a certain term should go round to the
merchant service, and come back again when wanted
into the navy. That course of circulation provided the
merchant service with good men, whom the Government
would have, back again whenever they were wanted.
However, tied as the Admiralty was, it could not do
otherwise in respect to the boys. As to the captains'
clerks, he had never heard any complaints from them,
and he was sure tfiat if there were any grounds of com-
plaint they wouldiiive been preferred before the CT)a-