The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-29 00:00:00

testant foundations and the Protestant constitution of the coun-
try, that they should not be assailed from the only
quarter to which those concessions had been made. He thought
he did not mistake the Right Hon. Baronet when he said that
he had held out expectations of the fullest and most distinct
character to the people of this country that he would determinedly
adhere to the fundamental articles of the union, which pre-
served her revenues not only to the English church, but ex.-
tended the same to the united churches of England and Ireland,
and which covenanted toextend the same privileges and per-
manency for ever to the national Scottish Church. He did not
rise to make these remarks from any invi.lious feelings, for none
could exceed him in sentiments of respect and sincere admira-
tion for the Right Hon. Baronet. In the removal of the Roman
Catholic disabilities he (Mr. Law) had given the Right Ho-
nourable Baronet full credit for his avowal that he had
removed these disabilities became he thought such a
course would strengthen the Irish Protestant Church instead of
weakening it, neither did he doubt the sincerity of the intentions
with which he had brought forward this unhappy scheme. lle
regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet had not at an earlier
period divulged his scheme of Irish academical education. If
the rant had been withdrawn altogether from the College of
Maynooth he should have been happy to assist in any arrange-
ment founded on just and equitable principles, by compensa-
tion or otherwise, to satisfy the polies interested in that ar-
rangement. He had no ungenerous feelings towards the Ca-
tholics of Ireland. On the contrary, for every shilling with-
drawn from the College of Maynnoth, he should have been
happy to have given them fourfold. If they avowed that agi-
tation could not be put down by force, and that they must
have recourse to concession, he (Mr. Law) would ask
how they could came to any other conclusion than
that the power would no longer rest with the
Right Hon. Baronet to grant or to withhold further conces-
sions? If they admitted this principle, it was the first fatal
step taken to educate all the Roman Catholic priesthood, at the
expense of the State. When they knew that there was no tax
imposed in this country for the education of ministers of the
Established Church—when, instead of Church extension, they
found the slaughter of bishoprics—was it not too mach that
when they saw Protestant endo)vments—sees well endowed and
in their favour the affections of the country—was it nut too much
that the national Church should be deprived of its
bishoprics, and a such larger than their revenues, by
this proposition, granted to the education of the Ro-
man Catholic priesthood in the College of Maynooth ?
He felt the. it was impossible they could rest here if this prin-
ciple were conceded. He did not say that the measure in
terms and expressly provided for the endowment of the
Catholic Church from the revenue of the State, but if the
Home acceded to it they could not, at a future time, object
to a proposition for the permanent endowment of that Church.
He, therefore, looked upon this Bill as the last battle field of
the British Protestant constitution.—(Hear, hear.) The
petitions which had been poured upon the table had been
disregarded, but he thought that those who had so much con-
fidence in the possible duration of that Parliament for two
years to come, as to treat in such a manner those whom they
professed themselves to represent, would find themselves mit-
taken.—( Hear, hear.) All that he (Mr. Law) had observed
was conclusive to him that, although the motion of the Hon.
Member for Sheffield had failed the other night, confiscation
would be again recommended.—( Hear.) The motion of the
Hon. Member for Sheffield had been defeated by a majority
very singular in its elements. It was composed to a large ex-
tent of 'hose who had reason to complain of the course which
the Right Hon. Baronet had taken in respect to the principles
in which they had heretofore supported him, and who stepped
in at a critical moment to save him from degradation—if it
were possible for so high a character to be degraded.—( Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) He (Mr. Law) was sure that whenever
the Church was tkreatened, and the Protestant foundations of
the empire were in danger, the old supporters of his Right
Hon. Friend would rally round the Right Hon, Baronet, who,
with such troops, had so often conducted them to victory. In
making these observations, he assured his Hon. Friend that he
had no doubt of his sincerity.—(oh, oh, and a laugh. )
Alt hough his (Mr. Law's) proposition was adistinct negative to
the resolution, still he could have well understood a pro-
_ position to have been brought forward for the endowment of
Maynooth, in which it might be consistent in him to concur.
No doubt the professors of the College had some right to ex-
pect that for their lives at least the grant would be continued.
He would say, give them such a grant freely, liberally, and
generously.—( A laugh.) But then it should be said, at the
same time, that from this moment all connexion between the
State and your College, as an ecclesiastical foundation, must
terminate.—( Hear, and a laugh.) But he would join with
his Right Hon. Friend in the establishment of lay foundations,
strictly so, where Christians of all denominations would receive
education, and have open to them alike the prizes of merit,
and the treasures of science and literature. But this measure
had raised another Catholic question, under more painful cir-
cumstances than ever had been agitated before. He was sure
that a majority of the petitioners who had agreed in the uni-
versal prayer against this grant would support a measure for
the general education of the population of Ireland.
—( Hear, hear.) He would have the Irish lan-
guage taught to every class of the Irish people—high
and A laugh.) It had been said.that the Bill was not a
permanent endowment, and that the Act could be repealed.
Why so could the reformation be reviewed, and the Act of
Union or the Act of Settlement be repealed. But he would
say more of this grant—that it conferred upon the trustees of
Maynooth a saleable interest.—( Hear, hear.) Instead of being
a measure of conciliation, it would only be food for fresh agita-
tion.—( Hear, hear.) New he for one denied the right of any
Minister to convulse the country by such means.—( Hear,
hear.) The Hon, Gentleman concluded by moving that the
report should be read that day six months.
Mr. VERNON SMITH had imagined, when' he read the
Hon. Gentleman's notice, that he meant to raise some ques-
tion as to the source from which the money was to be received,
but, after all, the Honourable Gentleman had merely recom-
mended that the grant should be withdrawn, and the sustenance
of the College left to the voluntary contributions of the Catho-
lics themselves, although for fifty years they had taken no
measures for that purpose. The Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man had said, on his reputation as a lawyer, that the trustees
would have a saleable interest in the grant ; but he (Mr.
Smith) would like to know what the value of Maynooth shares
would he in the market ?—(A laugh.) He thought that Hon.
and Right Hon. Gentlemen around him had not acted in tkis
matter in the wisest manner. He thought they had been
too readily captivated with the apparent liberality of the grant,
ant that they had pledged themselves to the support of the
Government before they had considered to what they were
led. More friends had been sacrificed on the Opposition side
than on the Ministerial, on this question, and he did not think
they ought to have run such risks for such a measure.—
( Hear, hear.) There were two monstrous evils in the eccle-
siastical affairs of Ireland—one was, the state of the Pro-
testant Church at it existed, and the other the state of the
Roman Catholic Church as it existed. He did not know which
was the greater evil. He did not know whether the Church
of the State was too much overpaid, or the Church of the
people was too much underpaid. But he thought it would
have become the Liberal party in that House to have first con-
sidered what they were doing before they gave their support to
this measure.—( Hear, hear.) They ought to have consi-
dered whether it would not be possible to reduce the Church of
the State so that it should not be so offensive to the people.
The Protestant Church in Ireland was a deformity and an eye-
sore to the people of England. It was indefensible in its pre-
sent condition, and there was no statesman in Europe that
would not regard it as such. He thought some bold, decisive,
and conciliatory line of policy towards Ireland should hare
been adopted, and if so the bugbear of " No Popery" would
not have been raised. The " bit by bit" reforms in religion
were pernicious, whilst the same sort of reform in politics
might be desireable. As regarded the principle involved in
the measure, it had been over and over again recognised by
the Legislature in providing religious instruetion and educa-
tion for our colonies. To urge the foolish argument that
what was done in the colonies should not be done at home,
resembled that sort of argument used by the woman who was
accused of connubial infidelity. She boldly alleged that the
faux pea was committed beyond the Cape. His reason for
wishing to endo v the Catholic priesthood was, that it would
give them an interest in the welfare of the empire. He would
wish to sae the Catholic clergy independent of their flacks, so
that when a discontented feeling was prevalent they
might tell their flocks, " we will not join with you —our breed
two longer depends upon your caprice—the State is inclined to
be just, and we will stand by it," and, on the other hand, if the
State was oppressive, they might say to it, t• we will no longer
accept el your money—we will again throw ourselves on our
faithful flocks for support." He must admit that this was the
first time that Parliament had voted money for education with-
out inquiring what the nature of that education would be. He
would support the measure as a new measure and as a new
Bill, because he thought it was the index of a better line of
policy towards Ireland. The Maynooth measure seas, after all,
a poor thing. Much had been said about the favourable
manner in which it had been received in Ireland, but he owned
he could not place much reliance on that sort of disposition
which we were told, by one post, denounced Sir Robert Peel,
and that, if he came to Leland, even Majesty itself would
hardly protect him, and by the next post that the Conciliation-
hall resounded with cheers for Sir James Graham. He did
not see how the improved mode of education in May-
nooth could favourably influence the minds of the
Catholic clergy in Ireland towards the State—( Hear)—if
nothing more were to be done for them ; on the contrary, he
thought that after having receised an expensive and elegant
ethanatian, they would feel the difficulties of entering upon the
duties of a poor parish much more keenly. The Right Hor..
Baronet would be highly culpable if, after raisin,' so fierce a
'ONo Popery" cry, and after stirring up so much bigotry, he
did not persevere in this course of conciliation, and bring in
large, comprehensive and healing measures for the Catholics of
Ireland. His reason for voting, for the g ant was, that though
he considered it a small measure it had achieved two great
epds—it had terminated the religious question as regarded the
Legislature, and established the precedent of Roman Catholics
receiving State money for their Church. He would not re-
proach the Right Hon. Baronet with inconsistency, though he
thought it would have been a great saving of his political repu-
tation, if he had in 1899 retired from the Cabinet and allowed
ethers to carry it.
Sir ROBERT PEEL—But would you have carried it if you
had not left office ?
Mr. VERNON SMITH—The Right Hon. Baronet might
have come down as an individual Member and supported the
measure, which would have been much more decorous. He
hoped, however, that in giving his support to this measure, he
might v..nture to hope that the Right Hon. Baronet would not
stop at that ; that he would not propound great principles
merely for the purpose of effecting small ends, but that regard-
less of all opposition from this side of the House or that, he
would persevere with those measures of conciliation towards
Ireland, which would be the most certain means of leading to
the peace and prosperity of that part of the United Kingdom.
Lord NORtIEYS said he did not thirkthatthtis this mea-
surecboytrye had yet been properly sifted. The people'
ofhad been led by the representations they had heard to
that the measure now before Parliament, in reference to the
endowment of Maynooth, came before the House for the first
time, instead of means having been taken to convince them
of what was the real fact—namely, !hat it had been before the
House every year for the last fifty years, :red that the proposi.
lion now before the House was really uottarq more than a
re-assertion of that principle with the details carries out upon
a more liberal and extended scale.--( Hear, hear.) r:9,
person who knew anything of Ireland must know, that th'e
Roman Catholic religion had been, and was, and would be, the
religion of the majority of the people of that country ; and was
it not there're plain that any vote against this measure would
be looked upon by the Irish people as a vote against
their religion. The question appeared to him to be
regarded by those who opposed it as a question of religion
or no religion. Now, though he differed from the tenets of
the Roman Catholic faith, he would much prefer to have the
Roman Catholic religion than no religion at all.—(Hear,
hear.) He had heard it objected, too, that this proposed grant
was to be paid out of the income-tax ; but even if it were,
surely so small a sum could cot affect that tax. But the ab-
surdity of such a proposition was so plain that he would not
further dwell upon it. As to the objection that had been
raised to it, that this grant should not be made to the exclu-
sion of the Dissenters, he would beg to ask how could there for
a moment be any comparison maintained between the two ?
In Ireland they had a Protestant establishment, and the Dis-
senters were also paid there, and yet great opposition was
raised to a measure which proposed but a very small compara-
tive sum for the education of the clergy of the gear. majorHeity
of the people of that country.—(Hear,)
had also heard it objected, that the Right Honour-
able Baronet, who had brought forward this measure,
ought to have been the last man in that House to have done so,
upon the ground that it was inconsistent with his usual course
had
of policy. Now he (Lord Norreys) begged tz say that he
been for the last fifteen years a plernber of ttat flow; PO,