The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-12 00:00:00

admitted that much niiaht be said ; -but with "to
gard •to third-class fares .' much had been done
better the accommodation of the working classes
who . were conveyed by the third-class ean,
e ent
For some years past there had been a very to
provement, and the directors of railways had come
,e
the opinion that the interests of railway proprietots
identical with those of the public. Under all the
cumstances of the case, and considering that,the raile,aoy
.
companies expressed their willingness to meet the Lithe
yernment fairly and openly, he thought ,t,
Government would do well to consent to P,
pone pone the measure until next session. In conclus
he must say he did not think it was right to cast slurs
on railway proprietors•with respect to • the opposition
this Bill.—(Hear, bear.) He believed that the oPPS
tion was general ; and it was increased by
stance that the Government seemed- so exceedingly
anxious to pass the Bill at that late period of the session'
He should certainly" vote for the amendment that a'
Bill be read that day six months.
Itee'
Lord SEYMOLTR said all the railway coinnu
had come to the conclusion that the interests of the vin e
way companies were not sufficiently identical with tilt
of the public. He thought it was very expedient that the the dream'
should be a revision of the railway fares, and that wet
necessarily involve an investigation into their profits, 0,
With respect to the provisions of the Bill for cavil%
the poorer classes at a cheaper rate, he thought no onel,
that House would do otherwise than approve of it. T?.;
provision itselishowed the proper and reasonable set
which prompted the Bill, and the only consideration
the House would be in what way that object could be
best secured. With respect to the enactments regard'n
the conveyance of the. mail, he considered it a Po:
t
that ought to belong to the Government, not only, as 'O,
garded future but all existing railways. Then as b;
the patronage which it was said would
vested by this Bill in the Board of 'Trade,
that
he must say he saw very little in it,
objection. Whatever there might be in
however, he was willing, as a member of the Conirnit'Ve
to take his share of the responsibility along with the
Government. •He could not, on the whole, see the
Government.
slightest objection to the principle of the Bill ; Pa ,
to the machinery, whenever it might be desirable to an'
and amend that, it could be best done in Committee., to
Mr. BERNAL said the present measure appeared p,
him to be so peculiarly important in its probable cot ,
-quences that he could not refrain from offerVi
a few observations upon it. He would pass ,
the attempt_ at insinuation that had been Ined
that all parties opposed to this Bill were supposed
to have an interest in railway property. , For a
own part he never held a share in a railwaY,,,j'a
canal, or an assurance company in his life, but be wt
not presume to say that those who did so. were no"
bound 'to. give the results of their experien„
to those less informed upon such subjeer
The present was a measure that depended upon its u,,'"
tails. He willingly assented to having third-class c:
riages for the purpose of giving facility to the t''s
yelling of the poorer classes ; but before railwo
were established, - how :did the poorer classes travel--;
why, by waggons. For his own part, he knew in,
class of persons who were more likely to he benefited
Il
railways than the poor. As to the option to be, givti
to the Government or the Board of Trade, which wre
the same, to purchase any railway, he believed it was t.ll
first time such a proposition had ever been put forward'
When first the question of railways was brought f...,4°`
ward in that House there was some degree of neglige7..
on the part of the Government ; but they now P.re,
posed to crush the hopes of rising railway comparleo
The contingent patronage incident to such a contro'i, i
it was'proposed to give to the Government would "t
attended with great inconvenience, if not danger. 0
would be necessary at length to make it the law that no
person having an interest in a railway, or an emplorne
in one, should vote in the election of aMe m be r of Parliamen,
There was a complication of clauses which would destr.,,°)
the effect of the Bill. He believed that the tide o Cc'.
munication- would be checked by the. Bill, and he there:
fore advised the Right Hon. Gentleman to be canal
The Bill was compulsory in its object, in its' intent, 11n
in its language, and he called on the House to reject o'o
Mr. COLQUHOUN defended the vote he gave onto
former occasion with regard to the Bill. He objected
of
the tone of the Right Hon. gentleman the L'resident"
the Board of Trade. When he saw the Member 1"
South Lancashire and the Member • for Readied,
and" when ; lie saw :gr. "Saunders and Mr. laluds(we
whom the -Bight 'Honourable. _Gentleman praised the
much, meeting in London within two days after.tijos
.Bill came out, and expressing their strong opinic'ef
against it, could he suppose that such men—men
lawyers
such intelligence—were played on as the tools_ ef
and agents out of doors ?—(Laughter.) -The Right skit
Gentleman said he would not allow thisßill to be postpon .0, •
he would not consent to a postponementof the Si
stating that it was founded on the third -report of tm
Committee, which was a short one, and published many
months ago. He did read that report, and his °,,
jections to it were as strong then as. before t"„,
measure was introduced ; and to show that all I'
not approval on the part of the, railway coutanies
th
respect to this measure, he quoted an extractair°°l
of
Railway Chronicle warning them of the conseguences
this Bill. What were the words of an enlightened man
• • s
who, in one of the journals, had made obs ervation u P
this measure—the words of a man who, from his
tion, must be supposed to have watched -the'immecils.
effects which it had produced ? Why, he said that the...
•
could be no doubt but that the immediate effeetaof this atoi
tation had been to depreciate the value of 'shares in
market. The Right Hon. Gentleman said: that an jrs
pression had gone forth among the public, that t'l'e
measure would give to Parliament the right to ptilltnsai
any railway it pleased, and had complained that such
impression was a very erroneous one, because the In's-50
sure would not give to Parliarnent.the power to pureb,so •
railways; and therefore he had contended thet the feStit
of the railway companies were without foundation. vit
he would ask, suppose, when the Pour-law Bill hail bead
Proposed, first posed, in 1833, the Government of that day
&bat
proposed all the clausei of the Poor-law Bill, except 0.
clause which would bring the Bill into operation by for '
abling rates to be levied—suppose all the-rmichinery e
bringing the Bill into immediate operatiOn had been Prat
pared, pared, and left in a state of abeyance,- but that t'ol
machinery, by a single vote in the estimates, :could,
any moment, be called into action; would netathe oPP
nents of the new poor-law have considered .that as
great step in advance on the part of their. aoersaries
.Or suppose in the case of the Factory Bill of :last 1:
all the machinery had been prepared, except the funeo
which could at any time, by a single
ia, vote in Connnit`ts
"of Supply, have been procured, would not the opponent,
of the principle of that measure have considered 'it as,
serious advance towards a system of. policy Wilt
they all deprecated? (Hear, hear.) The policy 0140
be right or it might he wrongs but if they passed to
measure, they would have advanced an important st e
)
in, their scheme of railway legislation.--(Hoar, heave
If they passed this Bill, the Government might COol(
down' on any day when there was a Committee
Supply, propose an estimate for the purchase of aPo
titular railway, with all the forces of the Government
bear on that particular question-a(Hear, hear)—say.ot.
was a question on which they staked their Own ext,as
ence—(lramense Opposition cheers)—he did riot say ti.,"o-t
with reference to past events—(R.enewed Clieering)---70
any Government which possessed the confidence O've,
large - majority of that House would always 11%9
Such an advantage as no particular railway e,
not all the railway interests united—could overeonio
The Bill gave great power and patronage to the Boao,
of Trade, and consequently the, Right Hon, geritleli,
the present and the late President of the Board of 'rre
supported the measure.—(Hear, hear.) This Bill
founded on the third report of the Committee, but t'ls
Right Hon. Gentleman admitted that many importa
suggestions in it were taken from the fifth report, ne4
additional reason why the House should not proeed
with the Bill during the present session. He conjul:„.
the House to consider that nothing could be more
gerous than hasty interference with such important in! a
rests. He thought the provisions of the Bill regarchno7,
third-class carriages, and indeed regarding. coaveyanto
generally, were judicioui, and would prove useful. lt.,µti. f,
said that railway companies enjoyed a monopoly. ly rrif
that was the case of all companies _ with vedt-
large capital and very large investments. Such was `eA
case with dock companies, water companies, and go,
companies.--(Hear, hear.) It was said that when c`bs;
panies had a monopoly, they would be extortionate
all companies, and -railway companies among their!, 'OO
the dread of competition befbre their eyes, and this 'Ol
quite evident from what 'transpired before the seating
Railway Committees ; the directors feared compe,t'
at
lines, and 'they knew that the • public would
once raise their voice against extortiaate
minds. 'He could weary the House by a rePor
titiOn of railways that kept down their fares
,;"f
the fear of competitiqn and by the wholesome dread
0.
.public opinion. He did not think the Bill of the Govekit
ment would be effectual in reducing fares. The mf'i.
conferred an inquisitive power into the affairs of Ti P'o,
irate company hitherto unparalleled, and than whieh.!,o
thing could be more odious. The seventh clause `vas
still more objectionable than the third, and gav°
Government a,power .of buying up railways when 'of
profit- exceeded ten per cent. after a certain time formation. He did not believe that anything could be
more unreasonable or unfair to private individuals,
the provisions of this clause. He considered the If
-was an' unjust -interference with mercantile indut
and mercantile - enterprise. Such legislation I',.a ct
)
always failed, and, deserved to fail.—(Hear, hen',
Take the example of the Royal Canal, which had 1)(1,
in existence for about 30 years. In 1811 it had P'to
duced las: Bd. in one quarter, and from that time °to
the present hour the income had been. nil What '
the number of tons of coals carried by this cane' a
M3361_ Eighteen tons.—(Laughter;) Captain LO
had told them that railways might be conducted bk fled
GOrerinnent at a saving of 25 per cent., and so delight
was the Right Hon. Baronet with this gentleman
ho had resolved to have further information on this su
ject. Captain Lawei proposed that the *Governnien
should buy up the railwaysin this country,allegiq o
'
the reason, the great saving of expense. He was an-,ut
there were some parts of the country which, within
Government interference, would never he supplied villo
railways, and this he said in the face of the exanha
of the Belgian • railways.—(Hear, hear.) In th7o
country the Government confined !he communicationea'ca
to the great towns. Ile did not krow what the .„.. il-„--
might think of this proposal, butit appeared to bi
from comparison, the most unjust PI-a;
pent that could be made. It wusimpossible top
the railways of England and France, or Belgitoll ;c1
the same footing. If the French Government desirdo
to have a particular railway, they had nothing
'°„so
but to .carry out their object; there was no exlllis
except that of construction.—(Hex, hear.) In
_7,t
country they would have to come into . contact :111,
powerful private interests. They bid, by private
covered-2,000 -miles•of- this- county with railroads, 51,-v
theyLearrie4AFffit-ox_quillhp# of -040 pie 3earlY
railways, which' originated in private enterprise. d
(Cheers.) The Belgian cicingiment had berrolve