The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-18 00:00:00

THE MAYNOOTH GRANT.

CAMMUDGE, Arum 17.—At the Senate held this day for
the election of librarian, the following requisition to the `ice.
Chancellor was circulated

" To the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Cambridge.
" We, the undersigned members of the Senate, request you
will take the necessary steps for the adoption of a petition
to the Senate against the Bill now under the consideration of
Parliament, for the endowment of the Roman Catholic Col-
lege of Maynooth." •
This requisition soon obtained a considerable number of
signatures, amongst others those of the following :—G. E.
Corrte, Norrisian Professor of Divinity ; James Scholefield,
Regius Professor of Greek ; George Spence, LL.D., one of the
Caput; James Ilildyard, Fellow and Tutor of Christ's ; Roger
Boston, 8.D., Fellow and Tutor of Emanuel; William Bates,
Fellow and Lecturer of Christ's ; J. .1. Smith, Fellow and
Tutor of Caius; and many others.
At eight o'clock the requisition was still in courseof signa-
ture, and would, in all probability, be presented last night.
As it is understood that the whole of the Caput r,re in
favour of this step, it is generally believed that there will be
no opposition to a grace liting submitted to the .senate, in
conformity with the terms of the requisition.
ELEmoN car LIBRARIAN.-At three o'clock yesterday,
when the Senate adjourned till half-past seven, the numbers
were :—For Mr. Power 275 ; for Mr. Smith, 199 ; majority
in favour of Mr. Power, 76. The voting was to close at ten
o'clock last night.

DEATH OF ADMIRAL SIR P. C. H. DURHAM.—
The navy has lost another of her brightest ornaments, in the
death of Admiral of the Red. Sir Philip Durham, Knight
Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath.
which took place at Naples on the 2d instant, the venerable
officer dying in the 83d year of his age. Sir Philip entered
the navy in 1777. He was midshipman of the Edgar, 74,
Captain John Elliott, which ship formed part of Sir George
Rodney's fleet at the defeat and capture of the Spanish
Admiral Don Juan de Lanpra. and the relief of
Gibraltar in 1780. He was titerwards acting lieutenant
and signal officer of the Victory, 104, flag-ship of Rear
Admiral Kempenfelt, and followed that gallant officer
on his removing into the Royal George. He continued in
that ship Auf;., the fatal catastrophe which befel her at Spit-
head, August 29, 1782. He latterly commanded the Defence.
74, in which ship be took a most active part in Sir Robert
Calder's action with the combined fleets of France and Spaiu,
on the 22d of July, and at the ever memorable battle, of
Trafalgar on the 21st of October, 1805. Subsequently he
hoisted a broad pendant as commodore commanding the third
division of the Mediterranean fleet, and ‘was present at the
destruction of two French line-of-battle ships, near Fron t ignan.
Oct. 26, 1809, He attained the rank of Rear-Admiral 31st
of July, 1810, and was employed in the North Sea in 1811.
His name appeared in the London Gazette in 1798 ; twice in
1805, and in 1814. He received both honorary and pecu-
niary rewards, and had a medal granted to him for the battle
of I rafalgar. He was made a Vice-Admiral on the 12th of
August, 1819, and full Admiral on the 22d of July, 1830
and on the 17th of November of that year, he was nominated
a G.C.B. The last service of this distinguished officer was
that of Commander-in-Chief at Portsmouth, where he struck
FIREone
o,cAlocT
k7a
dAers
tPr
ut Gt -vWe
fire
Lb. —r
kTe
his flag, in November, 1839.
Bete
houiSt
in the Royal Oak, Wapping-wall, in the occupation of Mr.
morning, shortly
Ferguson, licensed victualler. The inmates fortunatelyescaped by: the back of the premises in safety, but in a atAte
of nudity. So rapidly did the fire extend from fi;or to
floor that in less than a quarter of an hour from the/time of
the outbreak the whole of the contents, floors, and, roof were
inflatnes; and the adjoining premises, occupied 1' v Messrs. H.
and
T. Sarpas, mast and block makers,and t'
Ate Waterman's
Arms o • pposite, occupied by Mr. Crawford,, were in great
danger. In a very short time the cagitve from Shadwell,
and the brigade stations of Wellcl -
()PA-50... Aare, Watling-street,
Jeffery-square, and the West of En lend were upon the spot.
The water from the mains of the 7C:flat London works being
very plentifully supplied, copiotrs streams were poured upon
the blazing pile, but the fire could not be stopped till the
roof fell in. By two o'clock the fire was so far subdued that
all danger of its further extension was at an end. The
damage to the surrounding property was considerable, and
the Royal Oak, with its contents, is entirely destr_o_yed.
HUNGERFORD SUSPENSION BRIDGE.— Yesterday
notices were issued by the Directors of this bridge, stating
that the opening of it was postponed till the let May.
SUICIDE THROUGH BODILY AFFLICTION.—Last
evening Mr. W. Payne held an inquest at St. Bartholomew's
Hospital, on the body of Thomas Abbott, aged fifty-eight,
a stone-mason. During the past three months the deceased
had suffered much from bodily disease, which had prevented
him from following his usual employment.. This preyed.
' upon his mind. On Sunday morning last, about half-past
three o'clock, on his son entering his bed-room, he found
his father sitting on the bed side with a wound in his throat,
which he had inflicted with a razor. He was removed to the
hospital, where he expired on Wednesday last. Verdict,
"Temporary insanity."
EARLY LUXURIES.—There was a profuse supply
of cherries yesterday morning in Covent-garden mariiet.
; Strawberries, hot-house grapes, pine-apples, and cucumbers,
were also abundant.
The Hon. Sir James Parke, one of the judges at
•
our late assizes, of the
, has made an order upon the Lords
• Treasury for the payment of 25 guineas, as a
reward to Mr_
Stephen English, for his services in detecting the perpe-
trators of the tires in this county.—lpstt: • ch Journal.

'ac on the lengthened period that this Church
had existed in this country, and that throughout every
country in Europe State endowments had been the universal
custom, he was convinced that it would be better for society
that such an Establishment should have a permanent exist-
ence. He had bees astonished to hear some Hon. Members
declare their intention of voting against this measure on the
abstract principle, and yet conceding that it was a measure
calculated to conciliate the affections of the Irish people.
lic did not think it necessary at that time to argue, that the
mode in which the measure would work would carry out the
intentions of its promoters, but as an act of grace he thought
it one nerthy of the Government, and one which would he
received with gratitude by those for whem it was intended.
—( Hear.) He could not help thinking, that it would
have been better to have made a permanent provision for the
Irish clergy, instead of merely giving them the
means of education, and having adverted to that he must
say, that he held nothing in common with those who sought to
advance Protestantism by preventing the education of the
Roman Catholic priesthood, and he should as a Protestant
blush to think that Protestants, in carrying out the truth
of their principles, should wish to be placed on the vantage
ground in order to compete with the Roman Catholic clergy.
He thought that Protestant ministers were not less able to
approach the truth with power, and with energy, and effect,
than an educated Catholic priest. He had n w stated the 'Thief
reasons which induced him to support this measure, but he
could not conclude without stating that other reasons of a more
general character had influenced him also. He could not for-
get that in the period he had sat in Parliament no question
having reference to Irish ecclesiastical polity had been consi-
dered in any spirit of liberality. Now, for the first time within
his own Parliamentary recollection, he found the leading men
of both the parties into which that House was divided, cordially
concurring in the policy to be pursued with regard to Ireland.
He would hesitate long before he would, although differing in
politics from those who promoted this measure, take any steps
which would overturn things as at present constituted. They
were told by an Hon. Member in that House (Mr. D'lsraeli ),
that this was the first time that the Right Hon. Baronet at
the head of the Government used language so liberal in intro-
ducing any measure to the notice of the House, and they were
asked to mark their sense of the change in his policy, by resist-
ing this measure without any reference to its intrinsic
merit. He agreed with the Honourable Member that
every Government should act on settled and fixed
principles, that it was neither creditable or desirable
that they should do otherwise. He could not forget
the feelings engendered in Ireland—feelings which had sunk
deep in the minds of that sensitive people—when the Corpo-
rations Act was before that House. He remembered well that
the strength of the Conservative party was directed against
the measure, and when they found at last that resistance to
the popular opinion was perfectly impracticable they gave in,
but not in a generous or noble spirit. Not with the tone or
epirit in which this measure was tendered to the Irish people.
He admired not only the spirit with which this measure was
laid on the table, but the temper and the tone and the language
with which it was introduced. He was glad to hear the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland say. and he
(Sir George Grey) perfectly agreed with him, that the only
principle on which Ireland could be governed now was the
principle of conciliation. The Secretary of State for the Home
Department had not yet spoken in this debate, but he (Sir G.
Gres) trusted that before it closed he would do so—that the
Right Hon. Gentleman must be anxious to show that he cor-
dially concurred in the new spirit which had come over them—
(Great cheering—and that he would not stand in the way of
the policy towards Ireland which the Government was pre-
pared to carry out—that he would say something to smooth
away an expression which had been much criticised in the
Country. The Right Hon. Gentleman must recollect his once
saying " that conciliation had reached its limits." When he said
that this measure had been tendered in a generous and confid-
ing spirit he was sure that it had been accepted by the Roman
Catholic Members of that House in a kindred spirit—they had
exhibited a generous forgetfulness of the past, and he could
tiLn but believe that toe First Lord of the Treasury, who hesi
the power of controlling, in a weat degree, the votes of a large
sect ion of those who followed him, would carry out with their
assistance the liberal measures lie had so auspiciously begun.
Colonel SIBTHORP rose to address to the House a few
words upon the very important measure which had been
brought forward, and he would claim the kind indulgence of
the House when he acknowledged that he fit an increased
difficulty in thus presenting him-elf to the House, arising
partly from the unfortunate attempts he had made to address
them during an earlier stage of 'he tiehate ; and though he did
not pt bless to be a nervous man--; Laughter)—he felt in some
Measure a considerable degree of alarm in rising to address
them. He intended to support the amendment which had
tteen proposed by the Hon. Member fur eew castle—namely,
hat the second reading of the Bill should be taken on that
day six months. He had, during the last sixteen years, given
his most decided, most determined, and most unchangeable
°Pposition to such measures as that now proposed by
the Right Honourable Baronet. But that was r,ot
thei., only reason why he rose to address the
"mise.—(Laughter. ) He had another reason. He had been
brought up in the principles of the Protestant faith—he had
been brought up in the principles of the Protestant Church—
and he hoped he had never treated the subject with that levity
which it had received from the Hon. and Learned Member for
Cork. When h.. considered the great powers of mind and the
varied talents of the Hon. and Learned Member, much as he
admired those talents and that learning, he could not help feel-
ing disgusted when that Hon. and Learned Gentleman intro-
duced before that House matters totally foreign to the question.
—(Laughter.) He had introduced a book—( Great laughter)
—a book that he (Colonel Sibthorp) had never read—(Con-
.
tineued laughter)-_a book that he would never read--perhaps
and his of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself
quondam friend.—( Great laughter.) When he in-
troduced quotations from that book, no doubt it was to please
and tickle the appetites of those who wanted to be tickled.—
(Roars of laughter.) The Hon. and Learned Member had
the reputation of bein well able " to set the table in a roar"—
(Bursts of laughter, in which Mr. Sergear t Murphy heartily
joined )—and in the courts of law he had elicited from the gravity
of the judges—for, after all, judges were but men—a degree of
Merriment which ill beseemed the gravity of the bench.
sir, said the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman, I say it would have
been more befitting the Hon. Gentleman to have read those
quotations—where he is no doubt a very entertaining and very
valuable Member—at the Beef-Steak Club.—( Loud laughter.)
Perhaps, Sir, in fact I have been tell, that the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman visits that Society because it is founded on
temperance principles, but, Sir, I have seen that Hon. and
Learned Gentleman sometimes when he has appeared, what I
should call no fair specimen, as far as temperance goes, of the
Members of that Society.—(Loud laughter.) These quota-
tions, Sir, would have told better there than within the walls of
this House, where matters were being discussed touching upon
the religion of which he professes to entertain, as I
.0 for that religion for which I profess the strongest and the
ghest estimation. Sir, I say, that in this Ilouse such quota-
Lluns were, in my opinion, most unbecoming ; and such a grave
tinbject as that which was then befe the House ought not to
have been treated in such a manner by the Hon. and Learned
`eetitleman, considering the station he occupies. Sir, I never
rade a Merry Andrew of myself in this House.—( Roars of
kughter.never saw on the stage, at any time, a greater
errY Andrew than the Honourable and Learned Gentle-
'lan made of himself. Sir, I know my duty—l know
TY duty to my Sovereign—and I reverence my God.
„have a regard for my Protestant fellow-creatures, and I will
t'ver act such a part as will be hurtful to their feelings. Sir,
ne%lion. and Learned Gentleman thought proper in that
11;re the House was convulsed with laughter by
p e solemn tone in which the Hon. and Gallant Member hey
11 this unfinished sentence)—Sir, in that book he first
I°ucited upon the person of the Right Hon. Gentleman the
srst Lord of the lreasury.—( Great laughter.) I will leave
it to that 11.• L,t Hon Gentleman, Sir, to take what notice he
le„ , •
re), " of Continued laughter.) Oh, Sir, I quer-
ha ,not with the Honourable and Learned Gentleman for
vi°,lr.'g oe this I ru, Sir, tat I can stand up
thden . walls of this Hostuse—yes,h Sir, and I trust else-
° ere--fearless of whatever quotations that Hon. and Learned
Ontleman has to present, and which his present end perhaps
less quoriiinn friend recommend him to introduce—fear-
- may
°' whatever remarks he may make with regard to my eha-
e,mseter and conduct. Sir, I must naturally suppose, for I have
eCe ground for feeling that the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
in IW.ould be the most proper person, if indeed he has it not
``lntemplation already—perhaps he has—to be the editor of
edition of that book, which I have read as a boy at
li„°n°l—(Great laughter)—l mean Joe Miller's Jests. That
ssh *, and Learned Gentleman will permit me to say, but
%truer he will or not I'll say it—( Loud laughter)—that he
Rhinothing in support of that religion and of that measure to
air' he professed to be so warmly attached. The Hon. and
tilt ant Gentleman went on to say that he deeply regi ettei
advt. a Protestant Minister of the Crown, and the confidential
to h':er of a Protestant Sovereign, should, he would say dared,
to thve brought forward such a measure a: this, so repugnant
sci.trlsfeedelbitygs of every Protestant. He had been verb mtn'll
the speech of the Right Hen. Gentleman the
ti,%;el.lor ef the Exchequer, who represented the Pi otestant
hisid rsity of Cambridge, and who had stood up in
se, Place and said that he should give his cordial
.I,l;'Port to the measure before the House.—( Hear. )
Right Han. Gentleman had treated the numerous peti-
ka": which had been presented against this measure in a
tier:" which they did not deserve. The Right Hon. Gen-
had said that those petitioners wished for the annihilation
hsnacaeadernical institutions altogether. He (Colonel Sibthorp)
sere "(1 that the petitioners had no such wish. This mea-
linias.!l passed , would go far to establish the Popish Church in
th eed, and would be a great tep toward the d e molition of
ofevrerctestant Church. From the speech of the First Lord
eTreasur no one could tell whether that Right Hon.
tule y'
man
wasa Roman Catholic or Protestant, or a Ma-
ilightntedso_( Laughter. ) At no distant time probably the
beech Hon. Gentleman would be found sitting on a cross
" In the proud position of a Nlahomedan.—(Great
Ughter
ell ee__ • He (Colonel Sitithorp) confessed that he had lost
upotlnfidenee in the Right Hon. Gentleman. He was stepping
gust
tr7angerous ground. This hasty measure had spread dis-
ppeso.ogli the country. Already did the Hon. Gentlemen
betiehleLe begin to flap their wings and look to the Treasury
the Hos.---( Great laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentlelean
itltatiorae Secretary might smile, but he was not so safe in his
tende, as he thought he was. ore his
Sibthorp) Beforein-
of course to give this measure his decided opposition.
I sit down, continued the:Hon. and Gallant Gentleman,
a tell the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork
14L I
entertain no malignant feeling towards him.
Weitt,°lll me to take what he said in good humour. I hope
hoe,Pjetnared to take what I say in the same spirit. But I
enters'thPi,strhyat the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, whenever he
niijeet tiouse, to speak on such a grave—such an important
tins Ho as this, will at least consider that there are men in
titnertt e who regard their religion with veneration. These
leritis;_s eunot the times of revelry. These are times when the
their
fights
look to the House of Commons for a defence of
Ivhieh gety
hand liberties,. and for a defence of that faith in
their petitionave
been instructed. These are not times to turn
ti)ons, into ridicule. These, Sir, are my honest opi-
‘lore Gentle jrnoh, too feebly—expressed ; and I tell the Right
tnvel• fiep,„or,
,an at the head of the Government, that I will
stilsort whichlna• I will never support any man in a masers
..'"vesei I believe would be contrary to my duty to my
alieh agter. ) I never will support any man in
co7lk easare; and though the Hon. and Learned Member
Las
sthealdven,:e that I would sooner sacrifice my principles
hothead Gent :ultra of laughter )-1 tell that Hon. and
_ ntleman would rather not only be shaved,
'estant,a_LeY
the
shaver; off, than forget that I am a Pro-
t Itls.nr.: Al the faith in which I was educated.—(Cheers.)
atenity RfId'ICKSTONE addressed 'iineself with considerable dif-
es,,, `fl,t.h pain to the question'befo-e the House—with pain,
t. t",
antsi,L nis duty to differ from thoe
11°,1 the with difficult seeing h whom he usually
ev Y halt to y, the importani:4' °r the Ves-
tal°, no nt; ."enss. It had been said that the's tvoluure, she
weree,nl4ciple., He did not believe that the people 4"
teatzt a mear.._? stupid as to combine for the purpose of re-
tie(l‘l.4n oeueshe.neiuir)erh,ei which involved no principle. He thought
Pie was involved in the measure before
haou e lion• Gentleman the Member for Coventry
ht,,lautiew deElliceclared that Parliament was about to enter
Need the The Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool
ne,_ Bleed the
word ‘, restitution " Now, he (Mr.
Th'" Pririetr4:7,l4l ailt, whether restitution did. not mean that some
sheeßYrwer;:,v,asinvolved in the measure then before the House?
but h ant t._`te. that by principle they were hound' to continue
4 arebfn,"!_:ittoYrivoo:ttteh: 'year after.year the grant was opposed,
inns o,nhi, . against it under the hope that was held
It to ..g it the
„ draw following year. An attempt tied been
Ratd_ '''r. analogy betw,,en the maintenance of the
g,
wo_ip
c.ests in Ireland generally, and the chaplains
-milt tea of 1-‘4,1,0 uses. There was a vast distinction, because
,e places were eqiustantly is the wait of re-

ligiaus eonsolation. It was not a question whether Maynooth
was to have twenty or thirty thousand pounds a year, for no
matter how it had been disguised by the Government, the real

principle in the measure-was the endowment of the Roman
Catholic religion in Ireland. He could not support the motion
of the Honourable Member for Sheffield, because he did not
understand the idea of plundering one Church for the support
of another, but he did understand that if they adopted this
measure it would become imperative on them to endow a second
State religion in Ireland. Disguise it as the Government
might, that was the principle. Let them adopt the plan which
prevailed in Scotland if they liked; but to suppose that the
people of Ireland wauld submit to have two State religions in
the country was quite absurd.
Mr. RICE said that many of his constituents had opinions
very strongly opposed to this measure, but he would state, in
as few words as possible, why he should not act in accordance
with those opinions, but should give his support cordially and
sincerely to the measure. He did not think that the question
before them was whether they should endow the Roman Ca-
tholic priesthood, but whether the grant should be effectual in
giving education to the priesthood of Ireland or not ? He
could understand the observations of those Gentlemen who had
constantly voted consistently against the grant, but he did
not understand why they voted against the increased
grant, who had given their support to the grant on former oc-
casions. The Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down
touched two questions ; first, as to the question of compacts, he
did not understand whether there was a compact or not. But
he knew that statesmen who had many years' experience re-
commended the increase of the grant as an act of justice. He
also said that there was a new principle in the increase of this
grant ; but he was of the opinion of the Hon. Secretary at
War, who said that there was no new principle involved in the
increase. Some also objected on religious and conscientious
grounds, but he was not goins, to yield to any in attachment to
the religion which he believed' to be true ; he would respect
their opinions and conscientious objections, but he could not
disregard the feelings and religious opinions of his fellow sub-
jects and fellow-Christians in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Others
objected to the measure, on the grounds that it would tend to
increase the number of Roman Catholics, and to decrease the
number of Protestants in Ireland. He denied that the Bill
would produce such an effect, for by making them more en-
lightened men they would make them more enlightened
Christians, and it could not be contended for one
moment that by making them more enlightened
they were rendering them less susceptible of becoming
converts to the truth. Nothing could be more injurious to the
Protestant Church in Ireland, than the existence of grievances
on the Roman Catholic side. Nothing could be more prejudi-
cial to the Protestant religion in that country, than the suppo-
sition, on the part of the Catholics, that they were treated
with injustice. If they wanted to see the grateful feeling with
which the Irish people received the measure, they had only to
look to the Irish representatives, who in the House expressed
their gratitude for the Bill. Looking upon them as the repre-
sentatives of the Irish feeling on the question, they found that
feeling better and more extensive than their most sanguine
expectations led them to hope for. Were they prepared to take
upon themselves the responsibility of refusing a measure which
had been so proposed and so received—were they prepared with
a refusal which would have the effect of disuniting the United
Empire? He was not so prepared, and he would give his vote
in favour of the second reading of the Bill, which his con-
science and his judgment told him was the right course.
Mr. PLUMPTRE said that he confessed that he approached
the consideration of this subject with considerable pain and
anxiety. He was in the habit of hearing remarks directed
against him by the lion. Member for Kent, which were not
at all of a pleasant description, and which may have been in.
tended to give great discouragement to him in the defence
which he was about. to make of Protestant principles. He i
confessed that though they were unpleasant, they had not had
the effect of crushing his feeling, and the desire which he en-
tertained, of maintaining the course which he intended to
pursue on this question. The Hon. Member for Lambeth said
that from the petitions which had come before the House it
appeared that this question was considered by the people of
England as one of vital importance ; he agreed with the Hon.
Gentleman that was the view taken by the people. 'lf it were
not a subject in which religion was a part it was a matter to
him of insignificance, whether they gave a certain sum of money
to a certain college in Ireland or not, but he felt that it was a
most important question when he saw bow closely connected with
this Bill were the interests of the Protestant Established Church.
He had heard of a meeting which had lately been held in this
great city, convened by the first magistrate of the city, who
presided upon the occasion, and that meeting was attended by
all the great merchants and bankers, and other traders of this
great. city. At thst meeting resolutions were adopted which
were, to a certain extent, of a religious character, and advo-
cated religious separation.—(Cries of " No, no.") He had
heard an Hon. Member express dissent, but he should say that
at every meeting held upon this question, religion was the clues.
tier and the only one, and he believed he might say that reli-
gion in this case had taken away the four trumps. Then, there
had been a meeting held iii one of the city theatres, at which
spec he were matte against this measure ; and what were the
leading features of that dismission ? Were politics introduced
there ? No ; nothing but a religious aspect alone charaterised
the proceedings, and formed the leading features of the discus-
sion. Amidst some of the petitions presented against this
measure were two which had been ordered to be printed in
extenso, and which, therefore, became Parliamentary papers;
and he would ask were not those petitions well worthy the con-
sideration of that House? He (Mr. Plumptre) had had the
pleasure of presenting hundreds of petitions to the House upon
various occasions ; hut, amongst them all, not one was there
that more deeply affected a religious question than the
present.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He did not understand
why, if the present Government were determined upon
carrying this measure, that a different course shouldbe adopted
towards Ireland than was pursued in other countries where the
Roman Catholic religion was endowed.—( Hear, hear.) In
Russia, Austria, Spain, and other countries, there was a
wholesome control exercised over the Catholic institutions ;
and, therefore, he would ask, if the Roman Catholic religion
were to be endowed in Ireland by the Government, why the
Government should not have some control over it? The
lion. Member then read some passages from a pamphlet en-
titled " Maynooth, the Crown of the Country," which he con-
tended supported his arguments ; but the low tone in which lie
read the extracts, as well as that in which he spoke, rendered
it almost impossible to catch the connexion of his sentences.
He continued by saving that if evils did arise from such a state
of things as he believed would follow this grant, let the Go-
vernment remember that they had been warned, and made ac-
quainted with the difficulty in which they had been placed.
Nothing could be further from his intention than to give pain
to his Roman Catholic neighbours by any expres-
sions he should make use of ; but he felt
he had a duty to perform—that duty he would fulfil
no matter how painful to him. Ho had heard the Noble Lord
declare, that he did not believe that the Roman Catholic reli-
gion was the religion of Anti-Christ ; but he (Mr. Plumptre)
should say, he regretted that he could not agree with the
Noble Lord. He had heard a great deal from the Hon. Mem-
ber for Canterbury; but he ( Mr. Plumptre) begged to tell
that Hon. Member that he did not want to take advice W
counsel from him. The Hon. Member concluded by declaring
his determination to oppose the motion.
Mr. TRELAWNY said he would support the measure of
the Government ; but, at the same time, he should say, he
was averse to the endowment of any Church Establishment ;
and he contended that the further the Government went in
making such endowments, the deeper they became involved in
the difficulty. But as an endowment was to be made,
he would contend for it, that in this instance
much that was useful and beneficial would follow.
l'here was another argument, that this would be an induce-
ment to agitation, and that other Dissenters would demand
endowment. But he thought there could be no parallel be-
tween the case of the Roman Catholics and the Dissenters of
England. The priests of the Irish Catholics had been perse-
cuted to death—a price had been put by statute upon their
heads. This was a persecution to which the English Dis-
senters had never been subjected. And he further agreed
with those who argued that if the union had never taken place
the Roman Catholics of Ireland would before this have ob-
tained more than the Government now proposed to give them.
From all considerations of justice and expediency he would
support this measure—no matter what unpopularity it might
involve. He was glad that the Right Hon. Baronet who
brought it forward did not shrink from his purpose in
consequence of the taunts which had been east upon him.
The Honourable Member for Shrewsbury had attacked
the Right Honourable Baronet for his inconsistency,
but the Right lion. Baronet was very consistent in the way in
which he treated the past adulation and present abuse of the
Hon. Member.—( Hear, hear.) The argument that the mea-
sure ought to be rejected on account of the inconsistency of its
proposer, was worthy only of the Member for Shrewsbury and
Fielding's philosopher, Square.—( Hear.) For his own part,
he gave the measure his hearty support.--( Hear. )
Lord COUR TENAY had weighed well all the arguments of
those who opposed the measure. They could not oppose it on
principle, so long as they allowed a grant of a smaller amount.
Looking to the physical destitution, and the spiritual wants of
the people of Ireland. he would ask would that House do its
duty it it dm not, to the best of its pincer, promote the educa-
tion of the pt iesthood. He thought it was a duty of the Impe-
rial Parliament to effect that object But that was not his only
reason for supporting the measure, but he thought also that it
would have the effect of binding the connexion between the two
countries, and promoting the happiness of both.—(hear.)
Mr. WYKEH AM MARTIN was in the same predicament
as the Hon. Member opposite, who had been required by his
constituents either to vote against this measure or to resign liis
seat. Put he thought the measure of so much importance to
the good of the United Kingdom, that he felt it his duty to
support her Majesty's Government. He thought those who
supported the regium donuni to the Presbyterians could not,
upon principle, oppose a similar support to the more numerous
and more impoverished Roman Catholics. He did not see
why they should ask the Roman Catholics to contribute to the
support of the Protestant Church, if they were not, on the
other hand, willing to give something to maintain the College
of Maynooth. It was painful for him to be obliged to differ
from those who sent him the memorial, for many of whom he
entertained great respect, but he felt that the step he was
taking was the correct one, and he was deeply convinced that
he was only acting according to his duty in supporting the pre-
sent measure.—( Hear.)
Mr. H. M. TUITE would support the measure of the
Government, as an Irish Protestant Member, and he begged
to remind those Hon. Gentlemen who spoke of the Pro-
testants of Ireland, that there were a great number of Irish Pro-
testants who were in favour of the measure.—(Hear, hear.)
lie considered that the measure of the Government would
not only be an advantage to Ireland, but to the empire at
large. He regretted the acrimonious feelings which had
been exhibited during the present debate, and those who
accused the Government, and talked of being deceived,
should remember that the Right Honourable Baronet
gave ample notice of his intention with regard
to this measure—( Hear, hear)—though he had not done
so with regard to the tariff and other measures upon which
so many in that House were interested. A great deal had
been said of the conduct of the Roman Catholic clergy, but
it was only last Sunday week that he heard the clergyman of
Christchurch, St. John's-wood, request his congregation,
both gentlemen and ladies, to come down to the vestry-room
after the service to sign petitions against the Maynooth grant.
When that conduct was pursued by a Protestant clergyman of
the Established Church, he did not think that they ought to
be so bitter against the Catholic clergy of Ireland for allowing
the use of their chapels for political purposes, especially as here
they had Exeter-hall and such places to hold their meetings in.
He thought that the Roman Catholics would feel deeply grate-
ful to the Right Hon. Baronet for this measure.—( Hear. )
Mr. CAREW (Cornwall) expressed his intention of voting
for the present measure, though he had presented petitions
against the grant. lie agreed with the Hon. Member for
Kent, that the question had taken a religious complexion
though he deeply regretted it. He thought they owed some- '
thing to the people of Ireland ; and they should not forget the
trickery by which the Union was brought about against the
esm:ent, of the majority of the Irish people. He did not
sysnpishlst with those who thought the present measure would
destroy th4' Established Church in Ireland. He could not see
how the affordir,s. of increased education to the educators of the
people of Ireland'couLl have that effect.
Lord LEV ON regreted te tone of bitterness use b
the Hon. and Gallant Member fohr Lincoln. He did not thinky
he was called upon to enter into the consideration of the ques-
tion, how far the Government clevtrved the censure so liberally
bestowed by these who sat behind tbern ? It must, be evident to
every one that the Government had begin) to regret the line of
policy which they pursued when in Opposition. He wslied to
drop that Fubjent. Ile felt anxious to support a measure, which
he really believed to be good in itself ; arid which he thought
good, because unaccompanied b any injudicious and harsh re-
strictions, and bemuse, frow 4 w the had seen of the state of
. 7 '

HE

' the country, and from what he could hear from the sposehes
made in that House, he believed no other party in the king-
. dom could carry such a measure, except those now in
power.—( Hear, hear. ) Allusion had been made to the
length of the debate. He thought it a matter of regret
that the debate was so lengthened, because a favourable oppor-
tunity was afforded to excite what he believed to be the con-
scientious, but at the same time misguided feelings of a large
portion of the British public. He regretted that clergymen
had on such occasions considered it to be their duty to raise
such feelings in the minds of their flocks—feelings of hostility
and ill-will towards their fellow subjects and fellow Christians.
—( Hear, hear.) But on the other hand tho debate which
had taken place in that House must go far to assuage those
feelings. He thought that when the public read speeches,
such as that of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Devonport this evening—speeches delivered night after night
since the debate began, it would go far to create a favourable
impression of the Government policy. When they read the
report of the speech of his Noble Friend for Dorsetshire—a
speech admirable for its tone and temper towards the people of
Ireland, and a speech which, while opposed to the measure,
appeared to him to state in the closest manner the anomalous
state of the religious instruction of the Trials people at this
moment, and which demonstrated, in the most logical manner,
that the step to which the Government had come was the most
equitable basis fur the religious instruction of that portion of
the people. He thought that when the English public saw
that some of the advocates against the measure were obliged to
have recourse to the poverty of the Irish church—when they
saw advocates, not the least able, refuse to urge an argument
which had been urged on the House on every previous measure,
when a benefit was about to be conferred on the Irish people,
namely, that if the Government persevered in such a course,
England would lose its station among the nations of the earth.
When the public compared the speeches made upon both sides,
he thought they would not long continue in the present state
of excited feeling. In his opinion the chief boast of Eng-
lishmen was not their commercial prosperity, not the power
of the country in war, but the acknowledged superiority in
the civil liberty of the subject. And were they to be told
that a step in the direction of toleration would degrade Eng-
land among the nations of the earth? The Noble Lord tt'e
Member for Lynn, in a speech which he thought good
in itself, but better as an evidence in the present generation of
a more kindly sympathy felt by the Irish Protestants
towards their Catholic fellow-subjects. That Noble Lord,
who had supposed the case of a stranger visiting that House,
might have carried his supposition a little further—that a
stranger had actually visited that house—a great statesman—
whose high intellect was known throughout Europe, who,
though a Protestant, had been much among Roman Catholics,
a man eminent for high reputation and great learning, and phi-
lanthropy, and who would consider religious denominations
of all sorts on the same comprehensive and philanthropic
basis a man deeply studied in the principles of the
British Constitution, and if he had sit posed such a stranger
watching the debates, would that Nob tord not have blushed
for shame to find the Imperial Leei a ature of this kingdom
disputing about a miserable pittance for the religious instruc-
tion of a portion of their fellow-subjects.—( Hear, hear, and
cheers.) [The Noble Lord alluded to the Duke de Broglie
who, on a former evening, was present during this debate.]
For his (Lord Levison's) part he cordially approved of the
measure, and would not weary the House by bringing further
arguments in favour of it. He was sorry for having trespassed
so long on the attention of the House, and thanked them for
the patience with which they had listened to him.
Air. R. SPOONER said that if he had consulted his own
private feelings he would have given a silent vote, but as the
representative of a large community that felt deeply on the
question, he considered it to be his bounden duty to state, as
shortly as he could, the reasons which reluctantly obliged him to
onese the Government. He did not treat this question with
any feelings of bigotry, neither did he mean to treat it as a
mere money question. He treated it as a question of a reli-
gious principle to which he would adhere as long as he held a
seat in that House. He agreed with the Right
Hononrable and Learned Gentleman who had spoken
on a previous night, in the view which he had taken
upon this subject. He divided the opponents of the Bill into
three heads. The first resisted it because of the increased
amount. Now, he thought those who could vote for the small
sum could vote for the larger. But there was certainly this
broad distinction between the two grants, that whereas the
one was only annual and tinder the control of Parliament, this
was perpetual, and removed from that control. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had added that Parliament endowed
the Roman Catholic Church on a former occasion. He (Mr.
Spooner) denied that this was the case, and he made this dis-
-1 tinction, that whereas the one Bill merely enabled Roman
Catholics to endow with their own money, this Bill would
endow a Roman Catholic establishment with State money.
The second class of objections he could perfectly understand.
I hey went upon the voluntary principle. but he could not
see how any Honourable Member who entertained such views
could vote for the second reading of the Bill.—( Hear, hear. )
To the third class of objections he declared himself zealously,
firmly. and conscientiously attached.—( Hear, hear.) He had
a strong religious feeling on this matter, and never would con-
sent to endow the Church which, he really believed, taught
doctrines dangerous, unsound, and unscriptural. Upon this
subject he must open his mind freely, and declare that he
never, never would consent to the endowment of a Church
which, in his opinion, was dangerous to those to whom
its dangerous doctrines were taught— doctrines so de-
lusive, and a Church which, at the hour of death,
instead of administering to its followers the comforts
of religion led them to trust to an awful delusion.—( Loud cries
of " Oh," from the Opposition.) The Right Hon. Gentleman
alluded to mistakes in translations, but this step was a delibe-
rate sanction of error, not an accidental encouragement of
mistakes in translations; and they were voting a sum of money
for the purpose of teaching doctrines which they conscientiously
denied, and believed to be full of error, and to which be trusted
the House would never consent. Looking at the question as a
political one, and viewing it on the grounds advanced by his
Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government, he could
not see its utility, although he firmly believed the Right Hon.
Gentleman and the Government were actuated by the best
motives, for what else but a high sense of duty, and a desire
to confer a benefit on the State, could have induced them to
make such sacrifices ? He, therefore, gave his Right Hon.
Friend full credit for sincerity and honest motives, and he trusted
the same credit for sincerity and honesty would be given to
himself. He would give an extract from a speech of a de-
parted Right Hon. Gentleman, one which had been quoted by
his Right Hon. Friend, not, however, very fairly quoted, for
the Right Hon. Gentleman had left out a most material part.
He could not mention the name of that departed Right Hon.
Gentleman without regretting that some younger Members of
that House had spoken of him so slightingly.—( Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Spooner) had known him, perhaps not so intimately
as many Hon. Members of that House, but he was sure that
all who heard him would concur with him in this, that if a
conscientious discharge of his duty as Prime Minister—if a life
devoted to his country—a man who met with his death at the
very door of this House in the execution of his office—if
such claims as these did not call for generous remembrance—if
a conscientious discharge of all social public and private obli-
gations, which recommended him to the veneration of all who

knew him—if all those claims did not entitle his memory. to
respect, he feared that few public men could hope to receive
it.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Percival said that "he disclaimed
the odious principle of intolerance; but he observed, at the
same time, that the memorial of Roman Catholics, which was
the foundation of Maynooth, claimed no pecuniary relief. The
Roman Catholics promised to defray all expenses themselves,
and though Government and Parliament had given 8,0,:0/. in
aid of the object—(" Mind," said the Hon. Gentleman, " Mr.
Percival did not use the word perpetual")--that was no rea-
son that the country should be subjected to constant and in-
creasing demands for a purpose for which no precedent existed
in any age or country that of educating a priest-
hood differing widely from the Established Church."—( Hear. )
He conceived that they had, on the present occasion, begun at
the wrong end. They proposed to educate the priests, and
they said that the educated priests would enlighten the people.
if he really believed that they would be really enlightened, he
confessed that much of the sting would be taken away, though
that would not justify him in voting for the present
measure. But they would be disappointed in this expectation.
If they educated the priests they would require to pay them. If
they did not pay them they would be obliged, as before, to
go among the ignorant and the poor, who had not the means
of paying them. He would ask what, under these circum-
stances, must he the nature of the machinery which the Roman
Catholic priests must use—what but exacting from the super-
stitious ignorance of the peasantry what they would not other-
wise get from them, spontaneous charity. The House might
depend on it that the people would not be enlightened, for ig-
norance was the parent of superstition, and superstition was
their very means of support. They had not been able to draw
from the Right Hon. Gentleman any declaration as to whether
this was to be a final measure, or whether they had in contem-
plation some future measures of a similar character,—( Hear,
hear.) He had well observed whether the Right Honourable
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer would
reply to the speech of the Noble Lord, the Member for Dorset,
but the Right Hon. Gentleman answered only satisfactorily
upon one point and that was, nothing should induce them to
touch the funds of the Established Church, but not one word
did he say relative to the payment of the priesthood. Ile
(:qr. Spooner) thought that this would furnish a very bad
precedent, for the Government might come down at an after
period to that House, and using the same arguments as in the
case of Maynooth (for they had already broken down the prin-
ciple), say that they would pay the priests for them to
carry out the objects which they had in view when they intro-
duced the first measure. The very facts of the case enabled
every Member in that House to draw that conclusion. The
Ministry seemed to be acting upsn the principle of giving those
boons by instalments, and he thought that the people of Eng.-
land had a right to complain that they were likely to go further
and further until the Roman Catholic Church should be regularly
endowed. Let them go to every populous town in England,
as his Hon. Friend the Member for Warwickshire had justly
stated the other night, let them go to that county or to his
(Mr. Spooner's) part of the country, or in the neighbouring
counties, and there they would find schools, colleges, and
seminaries for the very purpose of creating congregations by a
display of pageantry, by a lavish expenditure, and by the at-
tractive character of the services they placed before the people.
If they had no other objects than to gain congregations, why
not commence where the congregations really were ? Why not
themselves establish schools and colleges and seminaries in Ire-
land ? Why come to England and lavish their money in search
of congregations ? Ignorance was the grand work
on which they reared their superstructure. He
would now allude to another part of the subject;
but he would merely allude to it in a few words, and
he would quote on this subject the illustrious individual to
whom he had already referred. The Hon. Member then
quoted from Hansard a speech of Mr. Percival in 1808, in
which he deprecated the idea of making the grant to May-
nooth a perpetual one. He now came to a subject which had
caused him great surprise on the previous evening, and which
merited the earnest attention of the House. The Noble Lord,
the Member for Newark, after stating that in the remarkable
work of Dr. Christopher Wordsworth, it was stated—" that
whereas by all other countries, whether Protestant or Roman
Catholic, in which the Roman Catholic religion was
acknowledged, and sanctioned, and supported by the
State, every precaution was taken, and every safe-
guard was devised, to secure the temporal supremacy of
the monarch against the Roman power—iii these realms alone
no such precautions were taken, and that here alone was ' free
trade with Rome.' The English nation," it continued,
" pays for Maynooth, and the Pope governs it ; shall not the
nation either cease to support, or the Pope to rule it ?" " The
priest takes a vow of obedience to the Roman Pontiff; the
bishop swears to maintain the Papacy, and to preserve the
rights and royalties of St. Peter; the archbishop may not exer-
cise his sacred functions till he has received the pallium of
Roma. Priests, bishops, and archbishops, are all the vassals of
Rome, rather than the subjects of Queen Victoria, and yet it
is to them that we make over the exclusive management of the
establishments for the education of the Roman Catholic
priests." These were the :premises. He had admitted them
to be true; but what was the conclusion at which the
Rev. Gentleman and those who agreed with him arrived ?
—to have nothing whatever to say to that enormous power
which they themselves admitted to be so greatly influential and
formidable. It was a case, in his opinion, for a course of con-
duct totally different. He would say to these gentlemen—
" Admit frankly and freely into your union and intercourse
that power you acknowledge to be so great and exten-
sive. Accreditw er to the Vatican—receive a Nuncio
hicha
nnis,
at St. James's—and see whether you cannot thus do what you
never can effect if you continue by the most miserable and
childish weakness to ignore the existence of a monarchy which
was great before England was a kingdom, and to which is yet
permitted the exercise of such tremendous power over every
Portion of your vast dottliWas." Such was the statement