The Sun.
London, England, 1821-06-16 00:00:00

CROWN LANDS.

Sir E. KNATCHBULL rose to present a Petition from se-
veral Parishes in the County of Kent, to which he was anxious
to call the attention of the House, as it not only related to the
interests of the individual Petitioners, but embraced a'question
in which the public interests were involved. It appeared that
some time since a considerable tract of land in these parishes
had been purchased by the Crown. When this land was in the
occupation of the vendors, it was of course liable to the payment
of land tax and poor rates, but as soon as it came into the posses-
sion of the Crown, it was relieved from these burthens, and the
occupiers holding other land within the limits of these parishes
were consequently saddled with the. exclusive payment of the
land tax and poor rates. He trusted that these Petitioners, up-
on their cases being made knownto theGovernment,vrould receive
immediate relief, and that it would not be necessary for him
to, propose any substantive measure-to Parliament on the sub-
ject. It however, he -sheetiti be disappointed in this expeeta-
tion, he should certainly feel it his duty to bring their case un-
der the consideration of the House in the next Session. He
was aware that the Royal PrerogatiVe might be 'set up in oppo-
sition to the claims of the Petitioners, and it the lands were in
the actual occupation of the Crciwn, he was ready to admit that
their case would not be so strong as it was, but the House would
recollect that it was stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman who
presided over the Woods and Forests (Mr. Hnskisson), that
all the revenues derived from the Crown were carried to the
Consolidated Fund. It was not the Crown, therefore, which
was exonerated from these burthens' but the public, who de-
rived benefit at the expence of the Petitioners. The Petition
was signed only by two individuals, but it had been already
laid before the Government, and had it not been for some ac-
cidentid Circumstances, it wouldhave been presented at a much
earlier period of the Session.
Mr. W. DUNDAS said, that in purchases of land made by
the Cniwn, the exemption from Land Tax and Poor Rates en-
-banded the amount of the purchase money, and in this instance
the Crown had paid the market price.
The •CtIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER .observed,
that there was a distinction between lands purchased for the
use and pleasure of the Crown, and which from time imme-
morial had been exempted from the burthens of 'Land Tax and
Poor Rates, and purchases made in the name of the CroWn for
the public service. There was every disposition on the part of
'the Treasury to do justice to the Petitioners.
Mr. BARING inquired for what public service these lands
had been purchased ? , -
The CHANCELLQR of the EXCHEQUER said, they
had been purchased for the purpose of growing timber.
Mi. BARING objected to the interference of Government in
buying up land for the purpose of growing timber. No country
in the world had produced so much oak timber as this for naval
purposes, and that circumstance was mainly to be attributed to
the growth of timber being left in the hands of individuals.
Sir I. COFFIN 'maintained that much more dependence was
to be placed upon timber obtained from the King's forests, than
upon the timber purchased from Merchants.
After a few words from Ur. WAItRE and Mr. LUSII-
1N G TON, . •
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said, he had entire confidence in
the justice of the Right Honourable. Gentleman, and in his
hands he would leave the case of the Petitioners.

The Petition was ordered to lie on the table and to be printed.

STATE OF IRELAND.

. Dlr. H. GRATTAN rose to ask the Right lion. Gentleman
opposite, whether there was any ground for the reports in cir-
culation as 'o the disturbances in Ireland ?

Mr. C. GRANT hoped the Hon. Member would allow him
to decline answering his question.
TRANSIT DUTIES ON LINEN.

Mr. DAWSON wished to know from the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, the Vice-President of the. Board of Trade, whether it
was his-intention to propoSe any Measure for repealing the
Transit Duties on Foreign Linen ? It was of importance that
the Irish manufacturers should have an opportunity of expres-
sing their sentiments to the Mouse on this subject.
Mr. WALLACE said, that it was certainly his intention to
propose a measure before the end of the Session. for repealing
the Transit Duties on Foreign' Linen,' and that every. opportu-
nity would be.afforded to the persons-interested in the. measure,
to lay. their case before Parliament.

IRISH REVENUE INQUIRY BILL.
On the motion of the CHANCE:LLOR of 'the Ex-
CHEQUER,, that. the House resolve itself into a
Committee on the Irish Revenue' Inquiry Bill,
Sir J. NEwport'i said, that the abuses in the
collection of the Irish revenue were of soexten-
sive a nature, that they could only be reached by
a Parliamentary Commission. It was a remark-
f;
diminished
inthe x
t 1 at the
exact proportion as the bur.:
thews of the people had been increased. One
of the, effects of this excessive taxation was to in-
crease an_ evil under which Ireland had long la-
boured=he alluded to the absence of its gentry. In
proportion as the taxation of-- articles of luxury,
which were-necessaryto-men of'a certain rank in
life, was increased, the main inducement to the re-
sidence of the gentry in Ireland was taken away.
He strongly 'recommended the skido.ption of the
13i11 now Under the con.sideraliPu" of the House,
in the full confidence that. the Commis:lion would
be composed of such persons as would give
weight to their appointment, and appreciate the

rRICE „ IN PENCE.

great responsibility of the trust reposed in them.
The,Cn.iNcELLOn. of the EXCHEQUER entirely
agreed,withthe Honourable Baronet (Sir.J. New•L
port) in the importance of the measure before
the House; and in the necessity •of appointing
Such individuals to fill the Commission, as would
dischar.;e their dtity With zeal; integrity, and
fearless. independence.
Mr, CALk.',RAFT agreed with 'his Right Hon.
Friend and the Right lion. Gentleman oppo-
site, -in the importance of the measure, and that
much depended upOn the selection of the per Sons
appointed as Conirissioners. He feared that
.some
new burden must be imposed upon the country
to provide salaries for these Commissioners, but
he trusted that no Member of Parliament, unless
be already treid-an-Official situation, c: rank; he tp-
pointed. The influence of places and sittiltions
of emolument in that House was already much
too extensive, and they ought to be extremely
cautious in creating new offices for Members of
their own body.. If it were intended to select
any Member of that House who was not already
.dependent upon the Crown,,he shoUld certainly
object to such a course, unless a special case were
made out.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee, and the Bill was read a first time.
Upon the clause for appointing the •Commis-
sioners,
The CHANCELLOR,Of the EXCHEQUER moved
that the blank be filled up with the following
names :—Right Hon. T. Wallace, Mr. F.:Lewis,
Mr. J. C. Beering, Mr. W. ;T. Lushington, and
Colonel Herries. It was provided that the Com-
missioners should receive, no salary, but as it was
usual for Parliament to make some compensation
upon .the close•of a Commission, this would be
matter for subsequent consideration. The duties
of the Commissioners would be attended with
considerable labour, and would probably con-
tinue for a considerable perio.d of time.: It was
but reasonable therefore that their expeuces
should be paid, but no climpensation for their
services .was provided by this Bill. :
Mr. HUME was not aware that live Commis-
sioners were necessary to discharge the duties of
this Commission. Qf this fact, however, he was
fully aware, that if the Right lion. Gentleman
opposite (Mr. Wallace) had any business to
transact at his office in London, as Vice-Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade, he could not per-
form the duties 'of a Commissioner in Ireland.
Mr. lierries, he understood; held the office of
Auditor of the Civil List, and if that Gentleman
could be absent in Ireland, for a'period of six
months or longer, he saw no reason why his sa-
lary might not be saved to the country. He had
as great a respect as any man could entertain for
an Hon. Member of that House, who had been
named by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite,
but he objected to the appointment of any Mem-
ber unless he:distinctly declared that he would
receive no salary or compensation. It was, in
fact, holding out a bribe to individuals to bring
them' under the. influence of the Government.
Hon. Gentlemen opposite• might smile,-.but that
was the plain fact. If the Commissioners were
to receive compensation at all, lie thought it
would be much better to give them a:salary at
once, and determine its amount in the present
Bill. •

Mr. F-LEWT:i considered that after-the re-
marks which had been made 'on - its being pro-
posed that his name should appear in .the Co-
mmission, it was necessary for him to say some-
thing. ThOugh he had.not.been in the habit of
- putting himself ostentatiously forward,. he trusted
the House would do hint the justice to.ailuiit that
he had_ always been ready to give the country the
benefit of his services When he thought they could
be useful. -He was just as willing to serve for
nothing on the present occasion as any person
could be, but was it the object of the Hon. Gen-
tleman to lay it down as a general -rale, that
Commissioners so appointed should have nothing
for their time and labour, or was it,intended to
propose that he alone should not be paid. If ..he
were asked-as an individual, he would be ready
to take upon himself the duty for nothing, but a
rule could not be laid down in his case which
would not extend to others. Was it to be as-
sumed that a Member of that House, who was
paid on such an occasion for services, which he
honestly and diligently performed, must of neces-
sity be thenceforward so warped in his opinions,
that he could no longer be trusted? If he thought
this was to be assumed, he' could wish the earth
to gape and swallow hint from the disgrace that
would fall on human nature, in the .case he .had
supposed. For himself he would say, that pay
him or pay him not, he would honestly 'perform
his duty: But if it were to be assumed that peo-
ple could not be horiett•Whd were.paid-;for their
services, he would say that it would be impoS-
sible to carry on the affairs of this country, or of
any other country under. the sun.' The labour
that would be imposed by this CommisSiotiwould
not be' light. He had habits and occupations of
his own 'from-Which it was to snatch him away,
and he .was only willing to giVe up these in the
hope of being able to do-goOd.: AS•to the
ques-
tion - whether 'a Member of Patliame!a,ought to
be one of the Commissioners, he.woUld 'say, that
were his name blotted out, he'WOul:Vatoince vote
for the appointment of some other Mtnnber,,as he
considered it of importance, foi• Niniiims.reasoits,
that some of the Members of thabAlous9 should
be included in. the .CornmissioaL .11*1(..had no
personal wish on the Subject:. andas''‘V4ill con-
tent that this House "shOuld :disposetaike ques-
timi as they please: =
Mr. WAr.r..tcc stated the grounds on AN hk:h he
had offered hiS services to the Commission.'• lle
had thought, that if compatible ,with his other