The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-12 00:00:00

T 1+: SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 12, Its4s

John Peters, innkeeper, Godstone, Surrey, Feb. 18, and 1
April 8, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Green,
official assignee, Aldermanbury ; Blake and Tamplin, King's-
row, Bedford-row, London ; I)empster, Brighton.

William Cottrell, tea-dealer, Southampton, Feb. 25, and
March 26, at two, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Johnson,
official assignee, Basinghall-street , Braikenridge, Bartlett's-
buildings, Holborn ; Newman, Southampton.
James Burrell and Thomas Hall, ironfounders, Thetford,
Norfolk, Feb. 25, at two, and March 25, at twelve, at the
Court of Bankruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, Basinghall-
street ; Johnston, Chancery-lane.
Hippolite Francis Bellenger, licensed victualler, Great
Pulteney-street, Golden-square, Feb. 19, at half-past two,
and March 26, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Bell,
official assignee, Coleman -street-buildings ; Robson, Clifford's
Inn.

William Cheatle Paul, sheep salesman, Romford,
Essex, Feb. 28, at two, and March 25, at one, at the Court
of Bankruptcy. Groom, official assignee, Abchurch-lane,
Lombard-street ; Messrs. Hilleary, Fenchurch-street,
London.

Spencer William Tyler, carpenter, Walcot-place, Lam-
beth. Feb. 18, at eleven, and March 25, at twelve, at
the Court of Bankruptcy. Graham, official assignee, Cole-
man-street; Buchanan, Basinghall-street.
Henry Peacock Gray, horse dealer, Caroline-street, Eaten-
square, Feb. 18, at twelve, and March 25, at eleven, at the
Court of Bankruptcy. Turquand, official assignee, Old Jewry
Chambers ; Dupree, Lawrence-lane, City.
Richard Steadman and William Adie, button makers, Bir-
mingham, Feb. 21 and March 18, at twelve, at the Birming-
ham District Court. Christie, official assignee, Birmingham;
Ilarrison and Smith, Birmingham.
Anthony Atkinson and Francis Atkinson, colour manu-
facturers, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Feb. 20, at twelve, and
April 3, at two, at the Newcastle-upon-Tyne District Court.
Wakley, official assignee, Newcastle-upon-Tyne; Watson
Newcastle-upon-Tyne ; Shield and Harwood, Queen-stree`
Cheapside.

(Dividends, &c., in our next.)

NEW PROJECTED RAIL WAYS

(From the Gazette of last Evening.)
RAILWAY DEPARTMENT, BOARD OF TRADE,
WHITEHALL, FEB. 11, 1845.

Notice is hereby given, that the Board constituted by the
Minute of the Lords of the Committee of Privy Council for
Grade, for the transaction of railway business, having had
under consideration the

Bolton, Wigan, and Liverpool Railway scheme,
have decided on reporting to Parliament in favour of the said
scheme : and the Board having further had under consi-
deration the following schemes, proposed by the Liverpool
and Manchester Railway Company, viz.,
The Patricroft and Clifton Branches,
The St. Helens and Raiford Branch,
The Parkside Branch,

The Extensions into Liverpool ;
have decided on reporting to Parliament in favour of
The Patrieroft and Clifton Branches,
The Parkside Branch,
The Extensions into Liverpool;
and against

The St. Helens and Rufford Branch :
and the Board having further had under consideration. the
Trent Valley Railway scheme
have decided on reporting to Parliament in favour of the
said scheme, with the exception of the Potteries and Alrewas
Branches, the postponement of which, until a future period,
will be recommended.

DALHOUSIE.

C. W. PASLEY.
D. O'BRIEN.

G. R. PORTER.
S. LAIN G.

MARKET INTELLIGENCE.
(From the London New Price Current of Feb. 11.)
SUGAR.-To-day grocers and refiners were eager to pur-
chase all qualities of West India Muscovado Sugar, but the
merchants insisting upon an advance on former rates of is
per cwt., business was checked, and the private purchases
did not exceed 230 hhds and tierces. A public sale of 118
hhds of Barbadoes went off with much spirit, at an advance
of is to 2s per cwt, fine yellow fetched 675, good 645, good
middling 60s to 61s, middling 58s to 59s 6d; low 56s to 57s
6d, and dabs 54s to 55s per cwt. The impression is, that if
the duty on Colonial Sugar be reduced, it will be 16s per cwt,
or rather under.
REFINED.-To-day refined goods were in excellent request,
brown Lumps at 71s 6d to 725, and Standard Lumps at 73s
per cwt. In Bastards and Pieces there was a large business
done at fully former rates. Bonded Crushed Sugar cannot
be generally purchased under 31s 6d per cwt for forward
delivery. This afternoon Mauritius Sugar was in extensive
request, and 6760 bags 8 casks at public sale were all sold,
fine yellow 62s to 645, good 58s 6d to 61s 6d, good mid 57s to
58s, middling 55s to 56s 6d, low 53s to 545, good and fine
brown 50s 6d to 525, low and middling 46s to 49s ; grey
common to middling 52s to 665, good and fine 57s to 608
per cwt.
EAST INDIA.-This afternoon Bengal Sugar met ready pur-
chasers ; 4,479 bags were offered at public sale; white and
brown kinds, of which the chiefpart:consisted, were all disposed
of at fully former rates, fine white fetched 66s to 66s 6d, good
645 6d, low 618, damp and washed 60s to 655, middling damp
brown 45s to 465, washed 41s to 435, damp grey 53s 6d, but
the yellow Mauritius kind were sold at 62s to 63s for good
strong yellow, 60s to 62s for damp, 54s for low date yellow,
and 52s to 53s for damp.
FOREIGN.-To-day there was not much demand for yellow
Havannah Sugar, and 939 boxes 1 cask of damaged at pub-
lic sale went 6d to is per cwt cheaper, but the whole sold,
slightly damaged fine yellow at 21s to 21s 6d, good 20s to
20s 6d, middling 19s to 19s 6d ; damaged, fine 20s 6d, good
19s to 19s 6d, middling 18s 6d, low 17s 6d to 18s. Washed
went at 21s 6d to 22s for fine, and 19s 6d to 20s 6d for good.
A few lots of damaged white realised 27s for low middling,
and 25s per cwt for low, and was considered the full value.
MOLASSES.-In West India the transactions are upon a
more extended scale, but not at better prices, 19s to 22s per
cwt having been taken for 300 puns of low to good Antigua.
In East India little has been done, but the low prices deter
holders from pressing sales.
COFFEE. -This afternoon Ceylon Coffee met more atten-
tion, and 1,292 bags 3 casks 4 cases Plantation at public sale
were all sold; fine ordinary pale grey Demerara sort fetched
61s to 61s 6d, tine fine ordinary 69s 6d to 725, fine and fine
fine ordinary palish 55s 6d to 66s 6d, good ordinary 50s to
51s, very ordinary ragged 49s to 49s 6d, triage 34s to 465,
inferior 16s to 21s, sound pea berry 65s to 755, better 82s 6d.
Mocha in good demand, and 291 bales at auction were sold,
middling greenish clean garbled at 60s 6d to 625, low middling
57s 6d to 58s. Of Mysore, 221 bags at the 4d per lb duty
sold, good ordinary mixed at 42s 6d to 45s 6d ; 1,222 bags of
Costa Rica went cheaper, fine ordinary at 51s, and ordinary
to good ordinary 40s to 48s ; 170 bags of sea damaged Fo-
reign were taken in at ss; 102 bags of Padang went at 22s
to 245, and sea damaged 20s to 23s per cwt. Good ordinary
pale Ceylon 503 to 51s per cwt.
TEA-The market has been firm for black and green
Tea, and the improved rates are fully supported :-common
Congou 111/2d to Is, Twankay yellow leaf is lid to is 3id,
and Hyson common 2s 7d to 2s 8d per lb. For public sale
on Friday 5,000, and for Tuesday 1,200 packages of Tea are
declared, and which quantities are likely to be increased.
The accounts from China state the new green Teas were
arriving slowly, and are held for very high rates, being
about 10 taels above the prices of last year. The crop is
said to be an average one. About 60 chops of black Teas
have been shipped on Chinese account. The exports of the
new crop, up to the 31st of October, in 27 vessels were
10,263,8711bs black, and 2,313,3611bs green. The following
are the prices :-Congou, new 18 to 36 taels, Caper, 17 to
24, Souchong, 30 to 50, Orange Pekoe, 22 to 24, fine Scented,
50 to 53, Twankay, 28 to 38, Hyson, 44 to 70, Young Hyson,
36 to 70, Hyson Skin, 19 to 365, Gunpowder, 51s to 63, Im-
perial, 48 to 60. taels.
Si.reEs.-This afternoon 100 cases of Bengal Ginger at
public sale were sold at 59s to 60s duty paid bold home
consumption kind.
Rum, BRANDY, AND lIOLLANDs.-For Leeward Island
Rum further reduced rates have been accepted, still buyers
operated with caution, and the purchases amount to only
150 puns : proof at 2s to 2s OP, 2 to 5 per cent overproof at
2s Id to 2s 2d, being Id IL,d per gallon under former rates.
For Demerara lower prices are again taken ; for 120 puns
30 to 36 per cent overproof 3s to 3s 2d, and the finest 3s 3d
per gallon. The lower kinds of Jamaica, only 80 puns have
been said at 3s 6d to 3s 8d for fair quality, 29 to 33 per cent
overproof, good and fine high flavoured descriptions are in
excellent request, at 5s to 7s per gallon. In Calcutta Rum
the sales are 150 puns at Is lOid to is 11d, proof strength,
with certificate. Brandy has been purchased with caution,
and prices are declining--Cognac, best brands of the vintage
of 1838, hhds 5e 2d, puns ss; 1839, hhds 4s 11d, puns 4s 9d;
1840, hhds 4.s I Id, puns 4s 941; 1841, hhds 4810 d, puns 4s 8d ;
1842; hhds 4s 7d, puns 4s 3d; 1843, Ithds4a sd, puns 4s 3d,
commons 2s 8d to 2s 11d, mid to good mid 3s to 45, and BOr-
deaux 2s 6d to 2s 9d per gallon. Geneva is riot much in re-
quest : is 8d to Is 9d is the value of export, and 2s 4d to 33
for home consumption. English Corn Spirits 108 2d, cash.
RICE.-Bengal has been sought after,and full rates offered,
low to middling white at lOs 6d to 1 ls, and superior lls 6d to
12s ; 408 bags at auction fetched Ils to lls 6d for good mid-
d ling white. Java is wanted, and prices keep up, yellow
fetching 9s to 9s 6d, white lOs to Ils 6d, and superior 12s to
12s 6d. Madras in good demand, and white has been
fetching 9s to 9s 6d, and yellow, 8s 6d to 9s. Cleaned 23s to
28s for Carolina, and 13s 6d to 17s 6d per cwt for Patna.
Ons.-The demand has improved for Palm Oil, 200 casks
at auction fetched 23s to 25s 6d for mid to fine, and low dark
at 21s to 22s 6d per cwt. Cocoa Nut has been in excellent
demand ; Ceylon 27s to 28s 6cl per cwt. In Olive Oil many
purchases have been made, 421 to 43/ for Gallipoli, 41/10s to
42/ for Spanish, 411 for Sicily, and 401 to 40/ lOs per tun for
Barbary. Rape has secured a good sale, pale 37s to 37s 6d,
and brown 363 to 36s 6d per cwt. In Linseed Oil an exten-
sive business has been transacted on the spot at 24s 9d to
25-4, and for delivery all the year at 25s 3d, 25s 9d, and 26s
per cwt. In common Fish Oils scarcely any business trans-
acted for exportation, and the home trade have purchased
with reluctance ; Cod is only 291 to 29l ss, pale Seal 32/ to
314 yellow and straw 291 to 321, dark brown 281 to 28110 s,
aid Southern common to fine 27/ to 32/. Imp9rters of Sperm
a e not disposed to further reduce their prices; fine British
held for 831 to 85/, and other sorts at 801 to 82/ per tun.
TALLOW.-The market is firm for Russian, and previous
rates are maintained ; 1' Y Candle of first quality has been
39s 3d to 40s, and second sort 38s to 39s per cwt. For de-
livery there are sellers at the moderate rates of 39s 6d to 40s
per cwt for the last three months of the year. Although the
market has been abundantly supplied with American, yet
late rates are fulls- sustained, at public sale 246 pkgs of South
American went at 31s 6d to 38s, for low to fine, and 122 pkgs
of North American at 37s 6d to 39s 3d for good to fine
quality. Other kinds of Tallow are fully as high, East India
21 pkgs at public sale produced 40s 9d to 41s for good
quality ; 78 casks of Odessa 38s 5d to 38s 9d, and 220 casks
St. Petersburgh 36s 6d to 38s 3d per cwt. Town Tallow has
rectired a good sale at 40s 64 to 41s per cwt nett cash.
COCHINEAL.-This afternoon 100 bags of Honduras Cochi-
neal were submitted to public competition, and all sold at
4s 10d to Ics 24 for ord to fine bold silvers being again id
per lb higher.
W00r,.-The demand has been extensive for Colonial Wool
at tlte public sales which have been in progress since this day
week, and the advance of 2d to 3d per lb is fully supported.
Other kinds of Wool are fully as high and the demand good.

LORD MORPETII.—It gives us lively pleasure to
ar:nounce, that in the course of the week after next this
town will be favoured with a visit from the Right lion.
Lord Morpeth. His Lordship has been invited by the
Committee of the " Leeds Mechanics' Institution and
Literary Society" to attend the annual soiree of that im-
portant Institution, to be held on Wednesday, the 19th
inst. ; and with his usual kindness and attachment to the
us of popular instruction, he has accepted the invite-
tion.—Leeds Mercury,
Dispatches from the Governor of Jamaica, and also from
the Governors of the other West
office.s.tlndi a Colonies, were re-
ceived_ yesterday, at the Colonial

I MPERIAL PARLIAMEN T.
HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 11.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack shortly after Five o'clock.
PRIVATE BILLS.
On the motion of the Earl of SHAFTESBURY it
was ordered that the House should not receive any peti-
tions for private Bills after Tuesday, the Bth of April,
an'l the Houseshould not rec lye any report of the judges
on such Bills afu r Thursday, the sth of June.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS.
The Lord CHANCELLOR said, that in consequence
of a question that had been put to him last night by a
Noble Marquis (Normanby), he thought it right to
state that it was his intention in a few days to introduce
a Bill making some alterations with respect to Charitable
Trusts.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that the other
Bills that had been referred to by the Noble Marquis
must originate in the House of Commons.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
The Marquis of NORMANBY said that, with refe-
rence to the Bills which must originate in the House of
Commons, he only hoped that the two Houses would come
to some arrangement that would prevent much of the
loss of their Lordships' time, by the crowded state of
business which came before them, after a great majo-
rity of their Lordships had left town—(Hear, hear)—
when there was no proper time to give the measures
their due consideration. He found that, in the month
of February, only two Bills had been brought up ; in
trch, three ; in April, one ; in May, five ; in June,
nine ; in Juy, fifty-two ; and during four days in
August there hadibeen no less than twelve; so that in
point of fact, in the four last days there had been Bills
brought up to which their Lordships could give no at-
tention, as their attendance was given elsewhere. The
Noble Duke would recollect that his suggestion most re-
spectfully tendered was, that he (the Duke of Welling-
ton) should call the attention of the Government to the
subject, with a view to mitigate the evils to which he had
alluded. In the House of Commons they were aware that
during the latter part of the session Bills were brought in
one by one, read a first time, then thrown upon the table,
there to remain till the month of July. It was a matter
of the utmost inconvenience to themselves; it inflicted the
greatest injury on the credit of the House, and threw
impediments of no common character in the way of the
efficient discharge of the business before their Lordships.
The Duke of WELLINGTON assured the Noble
Marquis that he had no doubt but the most satisfactory
explanation would be given by her Majesty's Govern-
ment for the course they had pursued on this subject.
LONDON COURT OF BANKRUPTCY.
Lord BROUGHAM, in rising to present a petition on
the subject of the proceedings that had taken place before
the Commissionrs of the Court of Bankruptcy of the City of
London, said there had been very serious complaints made
by many persons of the mode in which the public busi-
ness had been conducted in that court. He did not by
any means intend to convey, that he had any charge of
malversation of incompetency against those gentlemen ;
quite the contrary. He believed that more able men
could not be found in the legal profession, or men better
qualified in any way to fill the situation to which they
had been appointed. His petition was entirely confined to
complaints as to the delay and inconvenience to which
suitors had been put by the non-attendance of the Com-
missioners in their court. It would appear by the in-
formation he had received that none of the Commis
sioners attended in the court oftener than three days in
the week ; that some of them did not attend so often;
and that one of them attended only one day in the week;
and for this discharge of their duties they received
about 2,0001. a-year. He begged to assure their Lord-
ships that he would not only not present this petition
to day, but he would not present it at any
time, if his Noble and Learned Friend the
Lord Chancellor would give him reason to hope that
this mode of doing the public business by those Com-
missioners would be altered, and that they would attend
in their respective courts at times in proportion to the
amount of business to be done.
The LORD CHANCELLOR regretted that his
Noble and Learned Friend had thought proper to pre-
sent this petition without a t first having given him notice
of his intention, in order that he (the Lord Chancellor)
might affvd the Commissioners of the Court of Bank-
ruptcy an opportunity of giving such an explana-
tion of the charges it contained as they might be
in a condition to offer. The charges contained in the
petition were of a very grave and serious character, and
therefore it would be only fair to give the Commis-
sioners an opportunity of explaining ; and, for this
purpose, if his Noble Friend would let him see the peti-
tion, he (the Lord Chancellor) would put himself in
communication with those gentlemen on the subject.
He believed that those gentlemen had been appointed by
the Noble and Learned Lord himself.
Lord-BROUGHAM said he had it from under the
bands of the parties themselves that their attendance in
court was not more frequent than he had stated.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—It was true the
Commissioners did not sit in court very often during
the week ; but then it should not be forgotten that a
great deal of their labour was gone through out of the
court, in the same way as he (the Lord Chancellor) did
his own business, and he could say, with great truth,
that he had much more labour out of his court than in it.
Lord BROUGHAM had been told that as many as
thirty or forty cases were upon the paper every day,
and it was therefore impossible to get through that
amount of business unless there was more punctual at-
tendance in the court.
The LORD CHANCELLOR believed the cases could
not be so numerous, though he understood they did
amount to fifteen or sixteen.
Lord BROUGHAM-06, more, much more.
The LORD CHANCELLOR had no doubt but the
explanation of the Commissioners would be perfectly
satisfactory.
Lord BROUGHAM hoped it would be most satis-
factory; but hitherto their attendance had been most
unsatisfactory.—(Laughter.) He had heard of many
persons who had to come and go a long distance
each day for several days, owing to the Com-
missioners not having sat, and the consequence was a
very great increase of costs upon a very small estate.
Lord CAMPBELL (addressing himself to Lord
Brougham) said he was very glad that his Noble and
Learned Friend had postponed his petition on the sub-
ject, for it did contain a very serious charge—(" No,
no." from Lord Brougham). Well, it at least contained
charges of delinquencies. (Here Lord Brougham looked
up at Lord Campbell, and pointed at the same time to
the Lord Chancellor, amid some laughter.) Those
gentlemen had been appointed by the Noble Lord him-
se: f, and they certainly had shown themselves most able
and learned men in their profession.
Lord Brougham then handed the petition to the
Lord Chancellor ; and their Lordship"s adjourned
Thursday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 11.
The SPEAKER took his seat shortly before Four o'clock

NEW MEMBER.

Sir T. FREDIANTLE took the oaths and his seat for
he borough of Buckingham._

RAILWAYS.

An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not catch
presented a petition in favour of the Newcastle and Ber.
wick Railway Bill.
MEDICAL REFORM BILL.

Mr. GODSON presented a petition from the medical
practitioners and others, inhabitants of the borough of
Kidderminster, expressive of their approval of some of
the provisions of the Ministerial Medical Reform Bill,
and of their disapproval of other clauses of the same
measure.

years back the state of the poor in that part of the
kingdom was in a deplorable state. Various remedies
were proposed, but ultimately her Majesty's Govern-
ment, in preference to adopting any of them, ap-
pointed a Commission to inquire into the matter.
The Commissioners were invested with full powers
to investigate the causes, and to suggest such
remedial measures as might strike them as being advis •
able to meet the exigencies of the case. The Commis-
sioners. had detailed the results of their inquiry in a re-
port which had been laid before the House. They fully
went into the evidences they had taken on the subject,
and suggested a remedy. Now the question he wished to
ask her Majesty's Government was whether they intended
to bring in any measure for the alteration or amendment
of the Poor-laws in Scotland, and in the event of their
entertaining such an intention, whether such measures
would be founded on the recommendations contained in
the Report of the Commissioners appointed to inquire
into the subject, and which was laid on the table of the
House last session?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM was not at all surprised that
the Noble Lord, as a Scotchman, had taken in this ques
Graham)
the interest which he evinced, for he (Sir James
Graham) was satisfied that he could not exaggerate its
importance.—(Hear, hear.) Since the Noble Lord—
idthough he had not made an argument—had made a
statement, perhaps he (Sir James Graham) would be
excused if he made one also. The Noble Lord and
(he House would remember that the code of laws
bo which the Noble Lord's question referred
ad lasted more than two centuries, and it had
been cited as an example of the wisdom of the
Legislature, and until a recent period it had been
Cited as an instance of the prudence, caution, sobriety, and
+-as he might say—the morality of the Scottish people.
—(Hear, hear.) If a change in the law were proposed
by any Government, he would advise that Government
fo exercise the utmost caution before it recommended
the Legislature to make any change in that law
tinder which the people of Scotland had risen to great
pre-eminence in the arts, in science, in literature, in com-
merce, in agriculture, and in productive power. The altera-
qon of such a law required the utmost caution; at the
same time, he (Sir J. Graham) must say, that the anxious
attention of the Government had been directed to the
evidence which had been collected by the Commission.
Ile was himself of opinion that, on the whole, some
legislation in reference to this subject was required—
(Hear, hear)—but at the same time he was not able to
say at present the precise time when her Majesty's Go-
vernment would be prepared to submit any measure on
the subject to the House—for it was necessary that such a
measure should be prepared with great care. He was
not able to say what time might elapse before they
could be prepared with the measure which they should
consider perfect, and therefore he was not in a condition
to say more than that he thought it would be his duty to
bring in a Bill on the subject of the poor in Scotland in
the course of the present session.
The conversation then dropped.
PRIVATE BILLS. _ _

A number of Members were then excused from serving
on committees on private bills, on the ground of being
above sixty years of age.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER applied
to be excused from serving on account of official duties.
—Agreed to.
Sir J. GRAHAM applied for exemption on the same
grounds.—Agreed to.
RAILWAY COMMITTEE OF THE BOARD OF
TRADE.
Mr. WALLACE rose to call the attention of the
House to the several reports made by the Select Com-
mittees on Railways • to the appointment of the Board
constituted by the Board of Trade on the 24th day of
August, 1844, for the transaction of railway business,
and to the nature and effects of its public decisions on the
interests of the country, with:the view to the revision and
amendment of the Railway Act of last session, and to move
as follows •—" 1. That it is the inherent and constitu-
tional right of the inhabitants of Great Britain and
Ireland to travel through their own country by the
nearest way and at the cheapest rate, on the best roads
which may be provided for them, by the voluntary in-
vestment of private capital, and this whether the
roads be formed of iron or other materials.
2. That the investment of capital in roads, with a view
t) profit by the toll dues taken thereon, is of very recent
d‘te, and coincident only with the introduction of rail-
ways. 3. That the principle on which railways are con-
structed is not a discovery of modern date, being known
to the country from time immemorial in the form
of tram-road, composed of both wood and stone, and there•
fore not entitled to any unusual or peculiar advantages.
4. That whereas railways can now be constructed at
less than half the cost they formerly were, the rates and
charges should be reduced accordingly. 5. That it has
been recently stated in this House that the Railway
Committee of the Board of Trade have had returns to
show that the passenger traffic on those railways sub-
ject to the penny a mile clause, by the operation of
which the third-class fares throughout the kingdom
have been reduced from 2d. and lid. to ld. per mile,
being a reduction equal to from 30 to 50 per
cent., has been effected with great advantage to
the people, and without injury to the in-
comes of the respective railway companies. 6.
That it is in evidence before the Select Committe on
Railways of Session 1844, that third-class passengers
may be conveyed at moderate rates of speed, at a cost
not exceeding Id. for every 15 miles, and that at present
passenger fares are charged on different railways at prices
varying from 3d. to id. per mile for the several classes.
7. That travelling by railway has now become nearly the
only mode of conveyance for the inhabitants of this
country, whether rich or poor, and, therefore, until a
careful inquiry has been instituted into the cost of
construction of railways, and expense of transit, by
some competent tribunal, clothed with due authority to
prosecute such, and report upon the same to this
House, it is not expedient, with a view to the interests
of the people, and justice to the railway companies, that
the rates, charges, and modes of conveyance requisite to
e given
t
preserve the health, and secure the comfort and c
n
c th e
Raiw
notice, a venience of passengers travelling by railway, shouldobe-
settled for a lengthened period—that leave be given
and
8 in a Bill to repeal the Act of last session7tdo
8 House Vie" the
cap.B
The Hon. Member said that in rising to lay beforey the
5' commonly a
resolutions of which heed had
was not his intention to enter into anyaccusatory
ob-
servations with regard to the Committee of theoard
of Trade, but should adhere strictly to the terms of his
notice. He had been in communication with the
Right Hon. Gentleman, formerly President of the
Board of Trade, the Noble Lord who at present presided
over it, and the other members of the Board, by all of
whom he had been received with the greatest respect ;
and he would take this opportunity of assuring
the House that his objections did not apply
personally to any member of the Board, than
whom no one could have been more considerate and
kind. But the question he was about to submit was one
o greater importance to the people of this country
even than those measures which the Right Hon. Baronet
the First Lord of the Treasury intended to introduce
on Friday next. He conceived that by the Act of last
session the people of this country had become entirely
surrounded with a net-work of the incst obnoxious
character, and were now subjected to a mono-
poly of a most grinding and painful description.
He should also prove, as far as he could by statistics, the
truth of what he was about to submit to the House, but
he would not pass on to the subject without stating in
the outset that he considered the Committee of the
Board of Trade was entirely contrary to what was con-
stitutional in this country; that it was not by any means
regular, but, on the contrary, extremely irregular. They
undertook duties foreign to the objects for which the
Board of Trude was constituted. Their proper functions
were to regulate the commercial transactions of this
country with other countries. Though he now brought
forward the present motion, he was ready to confess that
he had voted for the Bill introduced by the Right Hon.
Gentleman, the late President of the Board of Trade ;
nor would he deny that he did so for the purpose of
opening some channel by which at a future time
he would be enabled to prove the effects
of the injurious monopolies which had been
woven through the best interests of the country.
lie believed he spoke the sentiments of nine-
teen-twentieths of the people of this country when he
stated that they did not desire to be subjected to the
tyranny and loss of health which they were obliged to
suffer from the way in which the directors of railroads
had chosen to manage their business. He held in his
hand an important document from the Noble
Lord who now presided over the Beard of Trade.
That document contained a list of all the companies
which had given notice to the Board of Trade of their
intention to come before the House.- That dOcument
came down to Bth February, 1845, and it appeared by
it that the applications for new lines, extensions,
branches, &c., amounted altogether to 248. He believed
that the Board of Trade had gone in a contrary
direction to what the interests of the country required.
They were not sanctioning new lines of railway, as would
be seen from the papers to be laid on the table of the House
Though he could not speak to the reasons, the fact was.
that they were discouraging competition, and thus depriv-
ing the people of this country of a free trade in railway
conveyance, without which they must virtually become
the slaves of the Railway Directors of Great Britain and
Ireland. It was objected that competition was an ex-
tremely difficult thing to scenic.. He had gone
through the reports of the various Railway
Committees of that House. The first Com-
mittee was appointed in November, 1837, on a
motion of his own, in which he was supported by the
late Chancellor of the Exchequer, from which
time to the present a Committee on rail-
ways had been appointed every year. In 1837,
only two persons were nominated as members who had
any interest in railways—a director and a shareholder.
In 1840 the number of persons interested in railways
belonging to the Committee was increased to three. But in
the year 1844 the Right Hon. Gentleman, then President
of the Board of Trade, proposed to the House a list con-
taining no less than twelve persons, who were either
directors or shareholders in railways. The House,
as well as the country, would, of course, judge
whether that Committee was what he (Mr. Wal-
lace) termed it at the time, a one sided Committee,
or a fair and just Committee, fitted to take into
consideration and deal with such vast and
important interests. He termed it at the '
time a one-sided Commitee ; he did so now.
He maintained that the resolutions and proceedings of
that Committee were utterly unworthy of the respect
which had been paid them. From that time forward he
believed the most perfect distrust had been felt by the
country at large in the reports of that Committee. There
were in the third report extremely good principles laid
down; most excellent- facts were alleged as to the dangers
of monopoly, and of the evils of extending the powers
of railway companies, so as t.) enable them to override
and overthrow the privileges of the people. But these all
disappeared when the sth report was published. The whole
of that report was to the effect that it was incumbent
on that House to select some board or :other, and that
that board ought to be constituted of the Board of

Trade, with an addition to its number. If the
report in question were carefully examined,
and the evidence which was very voluminous, were
carefully read, the House would find a premeditated
scheme for conveying from that House to the Board of
Trade the right of deciding in the first instance, and
indeed, for good and all, upon all questions con-
nected with railways that came under consideration.
One very important and extraordinary part of the re-
commendation of the Board of Trade to this Com-
mittee of their own manufacture was with respt ct to the
publication of the decisions in the Gazette. Owing to this
publication all the confusion, injustice, speculation, and
gambling which ensued had taken place. Ilad this publica-
tion been deferred until a complete statement could be made,
none of these evils would have taken place. He begged
leave to submit for the consideration of the House a
document, which he felt convinced would havegreat weight
in influencing the decisions of Hon. Members, and would
induce them to give their support to the motion he was
about to make—that the Bill be repealed which was
now law in the respect he complained of. He was about
ia lay on the table of the House a statement of the rates
of speed and of the fares charged on the rail„ ay between
Edinburgh and Glasgow. The distancewas 46 miles, and
the highest rate of speed 27 miles an hour. There were
four classes: the charge on the first class was Bs., about
Sd. per mile, the rate of speed 27 miles an hour. The
econd class, which travelled at the same rate of speed,
Was 6s. On the third class, which travelled at the
rate of 15 miles an hour, the fare was 2s. 6d. ;
On a second description of train, on the third class, the
fare was 2s. 6d., and the rate of speed fifteen miles an
lour; on the fourth class the rate of speed was fifteen
miles an hour, and the fare Is. 6d., or four-fifths of a
halfpenny per mile. Thus, in this class, forty-
six miles were performed for ls. 6d. The
low rates of fare, and the comparatively quick
travelling was owing to an effective opposition, not in
the shape of railway, but from a canal, and thus the
greatest boon was conferred on the humbler classes,
whilst the mode of travelling wes at once . safe
and convenient, and the shareholders amply recompensed.
He did not wish to lead the House to suppose that he
intended to say that his countrymen in Scotland had any
greater desire to benefit the poorer classes than the rail-
way proprietors in England. The same feeling actuated
the railway proprietors both of England and of Scotland.
They neither of them cared one straw for the lower
classes where money was concerned. If they could
screw money out of them they would.—(A laugh.) They
were, in that respect, like the First Lord of the Treasury,
who once a year took out of their pockets all he could get.
The next railway to which he would draw the attention
of the House was the railway between Glasgow and
Greenock. The distance was twenty-three miles, and it
was performed by the fast trains in fifty minutes. The
rate of the first class was one penny farthing per
mile, and for the whole twenty- three miles they
paid 2s. 6d. The second class, the carriages of
which were closed and nearly weather tight, and which,
eXcept that they had no cushions, were nearly as com-
fortable as those of the first class, ran at the rate of
three farthings per mile per passenger, the charge
for the whole distance being Is. 6d. The third
class, which travelled at the rate of thirty miles
an hour, carried passengers at the rate of a halfpenny a
mile. ' They went the whole distance in fifty minutes,
and charged one shilling. The working men in
his neighbourhood frequently went to their work
by this train. When the men had more lei-
sure and less money, which, until the last
six months had been unfortunately frequently the case,
they went by the fourth class, which travelled at the rate
of seventeen miles an hour, performing the whole dis-
tance in one hour and fifteen minutes, at the rate of one
farthing a mile, charging sixpence for the whole dis-
tance. - The House would understand that railway
travelling was conducted at a cheaper rate, and
with greater comfort and safety to the pas-
sengers, and in better carriages than it was in most
of the railways in England. He was not aware if cer-
tain returns which he bad moved for in relation to rail-
ways had been laid on that table. His Noble Friend, the
President of the Board of Trade, had promised that they
should be so, but he believed that they had not yet been
laid before the House. He would next draw the atten-
tion of the House to the railway between Edinburgh and
Greenock, which united the Atlantic ocean with the
German sea The distanee was seventy miles, and the
first class performed that distance in two hours and
fifty minutes, and the fare was 10s. 6d. The
fare of the second- class was 7s. 6d., being at the rate
of 2d, a mile ; by the third class, the fare was 55.,
by the third class, No. 2, it was 3s. 6d., and by the fourth
class it was 2s. So that, if it should happen that the
Queen should visit Scotland next year, as he hoped
she would, if she came to his side of the country
her Majesty could be conveyed by railway from
sea to sea, in two hours and fifty minutes, for 10s. 6d.
There was another advantage—sailors might pass from
port to port, a distance of 70 miles, for 2s. He would
Just state to the House the difference that existed in the
fares between Edinburgh and Greenock, and those be-
tween London and Exeter for a similar distance on
the Great Western Railway. By the Edinburgh
line, the first-class fare was 10s. 6d., but on
the Exeter line it was 17s. The secod class on
the Edinburgh line was 7s. 6d., and on the Exeter line
I Is. 9d. By the third class in Scotland the charge was
55., and on the Exeter line it was ss. 9d., but upon this
line they had no third class No. 2, or any fourth class at
all. He believed that the penny-a-mile system had been
rendered unavailing by the course which had been pursued
by railway companies. He believed the third-class trains
were invariably started at the most inconvenient hour
for the working classes. On those metropolitan lines
upon which persons could travel from one end to the
other and back again on the same day, the third-class
trains were so arranged as to prevent passengers re-
turning on the same day, The consequence of this ar-
rangment was,_ that the working people, if they required
to return on the same day. must either go by the second
or first-class carriages. This, indeed, was part of the
plan of all railway companies, by which they were striv-
ing to obtain a vast monopoly. (Hear, bear.)
This had been shown in the amalgamations of
railway companies which bad taken place, and which
were being projected. The Hon. Gentleman then read
an extract from the Railway Times of the 16th of No-
vember, 1843, on the subject of railway amalgamation.
Now he (Mr. Wallace) was there to contend that amal-
gamation was against the .interests of the public.
He was the advocate of competition, and he
did not object to competing lines running in a
parallel direction to existing Companies. In
order to promote a competition between lines of
railway, he should propose that the companies should be
required to give in tenders of the cheapest rate of con-
veyance ; and referred to the course adopted by the
Earl of Eglintoun with respect to the directors of the
line between Glasgow and Ayr. There were three dif-
ferent ways of securing comp( tition if they would only
set honestly about it. And if no man voted against him
who had an interest in railways, he should be sure to
carry his resolutions. In a notice he had given, he had
alluded to evidence given on this subject last year ; and
he would now advert to the estimates published in a
pamphlet entitled " Railway Reform," which appeared
anonymously, but was written by a gentleman named
Galt, who had done him (Mr. Wallace) the honour of
calling upon him. This gentleman made several calcu-
lations, founded on the reports of railway directors
According to these calculations the amount for carrying
a first-class passenger ought to be 2s. Bd, for every hun-
dred miles, for the second class Is. 3d., and for the third
10d. This was calculated upon evidence which no one
had contradicted, nor did he believe any one was pre-
pared to contradict it. Railway matters, in his opinion,
ought to have been submitted to a different tribunal
than the Board of Trade. A Commission ought to have
been appointed to inquire into railway projects,
and then the Board of Trade would have been em-
ployed in a very different manner. Large masses of
minerals were at present conveyed over some lines, and
this he thought was extremely objectionable,, because it
made railway travelling inconvenient, and not unfre
quently endangered the lives of passengers. Now,
he thought railways running through populous
districts, or coming to such places as Lon-
don, ought to be excluded from carrying
goods of a heavy description. He did not object to the
carriage of light goods or luggage, but it was exceed-
ingly unwise and inconvenient that coals, stone, or the
produce of mines, should be suffered to pass over
the same line as immense numbers of passen-
gers. He thought the Board of Trade would have
been well employed if they had considered the effect
of changing trains and carriages at the different
towns where any particular line terminated. In his
opinion, there ought to be a uniformity of carriages, in-
stead of, as at present, changing the carriages at an
intermediate station. He had always looked upon rail-
ways as public property, but the companies with which
he was acquainted had conducted them merely as
private speculations. Now, a railway was most certainly
public property, and public property too, of an im
portant character, and ought to command the increased
attention and vigilance of the Legislature. No sooner,
however, did a company obtain its Bill than the
comfort or convenience of the public was ne-
glected ; and nothing thought of but what was termed
" turning a penny." Now this, every body must admit
ought to be well leoked after by the Legislature, for
Companies would then not be suffered to take:an undue
advantage of the public when they found out there was no
other means of conveyance but their particular railway.
He would say that in justice and common sense the coon-
try ought to insist on that competition which they had a
right to demand, and which they might have had at first.
The volume which he held in his hand had been lent to
him. It contained the report of the Committee of last
session, and other important matters relating to rail-
ways, and as there were 250 railway projects coming
before the House, that book would be exceedingly
useful, and he was very glad to see that it had been
printed. Competition was not altogether new in rail-
ways. It had been tried, and with every success, by
running the same trains and engines on different lines.
Perhaps it might not be known to many Members of that
House that the Grand Junction and Manchester
Railway Companies had agreed to allow each other's
carriages to run over both lines. No inconvenience had
arisen from this arrangement, either to the companies or
to the public. The House had an example by which
the public could be greatly benefited. That proposal was
not novel to the House of Commons; he held in his hand
a Bill which was brought in on the 13th of June, 1836,
by the Hon. Member fur Inverness. This was for the
revision of the tolls, and it was received with great
favour in the House, and a promise was given that the
attention of the Government would be directed to the sub-
ject, but since then it had been ptit off from time to time.
In the year 1837, a Bill was brought in by persons who
were then in as high ?laces as those were who brought
in the Bill of last year. He believed that Bill was
brought iu by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member
for Taunton. There was a clause in that Bill of very
material moment; and, had the Government not
abandoned their own proposal, they would have a dif-
ferent state of things at that moment. What it pro-
posed was, that an experimental set of railway car-
tines should be constructed and placed under the ma.

nagement of the Post-office, so that it might be aseex--
tained with certainty what was the cost, the rate of ra-
pidity of the carriages, and the best mode of conveying
goods and passengers. The Hon. Gentleman then re-
ferred to a speech made by the Hon. Member for Inver-
ness, in the year 1837, fr an which he mad an extract.
He entirelyconcurred in that speech, which he had heard
with great pleamtre and he would be glad to find !here
were many more of the seine opinion. What had been
done by the Act of last session ? That Act bound them
to protect for 21 years all the monopolies which already
existed ; making no allowance for the increase of
population, which could not in that period be much less
than seven or eight millions. Nothing could be
more absurd than to allow railway companies to
go on upon the present system for so long a time.
He held in his hand letters from various people,
which he had received since he gave notice
of his motion. All of them complained of the
third-class carriages, though, if possible, still more of the
second. He could not but think the neglect of the House
to make some provision with respect to second-class
carriages had been a very serious omission. He
insisted that they had a perfect right that no carriages
should be allowed to run which could be
injurious to the health and safety of the people. He
insisted without hesitation that there was no class of
carriages so injurious to the health of the people as
were the second-class carriages, as they were
now fitted up. He believed that morbid diseases,
and more illness had been created by the
defects of there carriages than by those of all the
ot!- er modes of conveyance. He had, however, letters
from various quarters complaining also of the ineffficency
of third-class carriages. It was alleged that the provi-
sions of the Act had not yet been fulfilled, and that even
if they were, though the effect might be beneficial
in winter, such carriages would be intolerable in sum-
mer Another complaint was, that they had only pro-
vided one train each day at a penny per mile. He
should take the liberty of reading to the House
two letters, which he selected because they were
the best. One was the letter of Thomas Johnson,
of Birmingham. (The Hon. Member then read the
letter.) The author stated (as we understood), that
having travelled on the London and Birmingham line
he had found the third-class carriages so be ex-
tremely comfortable. In travelling, however, by the
Great Western line, on the 23d of January, in a third-
class carriage, he had found it so constructed that the
passengers were much exposed to the weather,
and on subsequently taking his place in a second-class
carriage, he found that that also was miserably cold.
The writer sincerely hoped that the House would take
same measures to make the Bill of last session effective.
The Hon. Member then read a letter from a gentleman
in London complaining of the course pursued by
the railroads with respect to the third-class car-
riages ; a course which prevented the poor from en-
joying the benefit of them, as they could not go to
a place and return from thence the same day. The
writer suggested that two third-class trains should run
every day, and by that means a great benefit would be
given to the poor, as they could then go to and from a
place on the same day. The Hon. Member would not
trouble the House with another letter he had from
another party, but he felt bound to call the attention of
the Government to a petition from Hastings, praying
that better accommodation might be granted by rail-
way to the poor. He thought the petition well
worthy of the consideration of the House.
He had another petition from a class of men, numerous
it was true, but whose claims were but too seldom at-
tended to—he meant the workingmen of England. They
had represented, in the most distinct and forcible
manner, that their safety, their health, and
security to their property—that their • time
should not be wasted for the purpose merely of putting
money into the pockets of the different railway pro-
proprietors. He had not had time to look at
the returns which had been laid upon the
table, and therefore he intended saying not one
word upon the subject. He thanked the House
for the attention they had paid to him, and for the kind
ness with which they had listened to his statements on
this subject He was not personally interested either
one way or another in the matter, further
than as he had already stated to the House—namely,
that he believed, in every particular, what he had sub-
mitted to the House. He begged, therefore, in the terms
of his notice, to move that leave be given to bring
in a Bill to repeal the Act of last session, commonly
called the Railway Act.
Mr. EWART said that he agreed with his Hon.
Friend the Member for Greenock, that the subject of
railway communication was one of the most important
that could be brought before the notice of that House.
His Hon. Friend had referred to the constitution of the
Board of Trade, and on that subject he (Mr. Ewart) en-
tertained a very strong opinion since the very first founda-
tion of that Board. The Hon. Member had alluded to the
policy of Government's taking tenders for the formation
of different lines, from different companies. That mode
he (Mr. Ewart) thought might do well enough for
France, but he much doubted whether it would do equally
well in this country. He entertained a very strong con-
viction, which had been further strengthened since the
establishment of the Railway Board, that it was most in-
expedient for Government to interfere either one way or
the other. He believed that if Government were really
desirous of introducing benefits into the present railway
system. they could do so by making the Board of Trade
not a Board of control, but a Board of reference. Were
that Board to consist of a small number of members—
impartial and independent men, who might, when ques-
tions arose upon such scientific subjects as required a
more extended knowledge than they could give, refer to
persons appointed for the purpose—then that Board
would be a greatly improved one. He did not like
calling in the assistance of Government. It was a pain-
ful element, totally at variance with the principles of the
constitution. His Hon. Friend had alluded to the com-
petition of railways upon the same line, and he cited the
case of the Grand Junction and Manchester line, but
those companies ran in conjunction, and therefore that
did not establish 'the fact that it was possible for com-
peting parties to run upon the same line. He held that
the position assumed by his Hon. Friend, that it was
impossible there could be competing trains on the same
line of railway was fallacious. It was impossible that
such could be the case, and in the instance to which his
Hon. Friend had alluded the trains had been run, not
by the competition, but by the concurrence of the rival
companies. In the third place, his Hon. Friend had
alluded to the policy of reducing the charge for pas-
sengers. All the evidence which he had seen on the
subject induced him to come to the same conclusion.
In the last report of the Grand Junction Company, the
Directors stated that while they had lost by the re
duction of the fares by the first and second class, they
had greatly profited by the reduction of the fares of the
third class. He believed that it would be found that the
same rule applied to railways that applied to every other
branch of commerce—that it was always for the profit of
those concerned in it to consult the interest of the largest
class of consumers. Last year when his Right Hon. Friend
the President of the Board of Trade had introduced his
Railway Bill, he (Mr. Ewart) bad felt most ominous
forebodings as to the working of the measure. Be
doubted whether any good could possibly arise from re-
ferring these measures to a Committee of the Board of
Trade. When the Beard of Trade was first instituted,
Mr. Burke had expressed his doubts as to whether any
good could possibly arise from the institution of a board
for the regulation of trade. He (Mr. Ewart) doubted
whether any good could arise from any institution for
the regulation of railway traffic. He believed that
board could not stand. If it was necessary to have a
board for the purpose of consultation it should be merely
a board of reference to assist a Parliamentary Commit-
tee, if required. He did not believe that the direct in-
terference of any Government body in such matters
could benefit the country.
Lord HO WICK had not last year opposed the Govern-
ment Bill. On the contrary, he had voted for that mea-
sure. At the same time, he heartily concurred in the
opinion that had been expressed by the Hon. Gentle-
man, that the subject was one of the deepest importance
to the country, and that it was their duty to take mea-
sures to secure to the public the advantages of ereate r
facility and greater cheapness in railway travelling.
Hitherto the measures which had been adopted had been
ineffectual for that purpose. The public had not hitherto
received that benefit from this invention which they-
ought to have obtained. He also agreed that the pre-
sent session afforded an opportunity for dealing with
this subject which ought not not to be lost. They would
soon have a multitude of Bills before them, and before
they created such a vast mass of vested interests and
rights, they ought to come to a decision as to what mea

sures it would be ;:ecessary and competent for them-to
adopt, in order to secure to the public the greatest pos-
sible advantages from railway communication. The Hon.
Member for Dumfries had stated that all that was re-
quired was the improved constitution of the Committees.
Mr. EWART—Nut all.
Lord HOWICK—WeII, the chief point urged by the
Honourable Gentleman and by the Noble Lord opposite,
was to alter the constitution of these committees, and
the mode in which that object was to be gained. He
agreed with him in thinking that the improvement of the
constitution of these committees was very desirable ;
but he did not think that it would be possible, by any
reform of these tribunals, to provide a satisfactory mode
of disposing of the immense mass of railway business
which came befOr4- Parliament, unless some greater
change was adopted than had been hitherto suggested.
It appeared to him that whether Parliamentary com-
mittees or the committee of the Board of Trade were en-
trusted with the disposal of such an enormous amount

of, property--while competition for contending lines of
railway was so intense, while the amount gained or lt st
by the adoption or rejection of a Bill was so great—no
committee, Parliamentary or otherwise, could deal with
- •

.such enormous interests. '1 he determination was not
which was the best line of railway communication, but
which out of two, or three, or more conflicting
companies was to have the benefit of constructing a
particular line. The competition at this moment was
so great that the mere fact of any particular line be ng
Sanctioned by Parliament, elevated the shares to a very
large premium. Twenty five pound shares, out of which
1/. lOs. or 2/. had been paid, would bring a premium of
16/. or 18/., or even a greater amount. When the de-
cision of a Parliamentary Committee affected to so vast
an extent the public interests, the utmost care should be
taken that the public interests should be the chief object
of such decisions. It was not a question of mere law or
rights they had to decide upon. but a question of public
convenience, in which a number of conflicting reasons
weighed one against the other, so that no two mnids
could arrive at the same cone union.. He believed it was

impossible to cr,-ate any buth,:rity that could dispose oaf
this ques(ion, in which there would nut be brought to
bear, in some shape or other, influence or favour in

_ •
•
money or mone)'s worth. This would happen, or
would be thought to have happened. The experience
of Parliamentary Committees proved that this was the
case. This inconvenience it would be impossible to
avoid as long as the two questions—What wes the best
line of. railways, and who were the phrtivs to execute
that line, were united? It therefore seemed to him

that there was something in this matter. as they might
perceive, by looking at the examile of a neight;oat7
ing country. They all knew that. in Franoe the fir!t
point.determined was What should be the line of rail
wey, and that was determined quite irrespi-ctive of iinty
pare ular company, and on a sober and d.:passiona
consideration of what the country required. Whet?
that was determined, th.• next se was to call up"ti Ea
pitalists to send in their tenders of the terms on wnlhc
they would propose to execute the line. Now, w
should we not adopt something of the same kind her
He would trust any authority of this description, pron,
vided the right of con.ttucting the line was not co
ferrod on the parties who were to benefit by it. havingo
got the line laid out in this manner, the next step
call on rival companies to send in proposals as to
bet
mode of making it. He held with the Hon. 31eini t
be
for Greenock, that the principle of tender
safely introduced here. They might call on the dio".%
rent companies to say, if they constructed any
lar line, at what rate they would charge ; what Ont,
of trains, and at what speed they would send them .ee
the line ; and, in short, what extent of accommodate:it,
they weuld afford the public, and what it would COss__
Having got these tenders, nothing could be more ea
11Y,,
than to give the construotion of the line to the comPtt
which could afford to make it on the best terms.ech
appeared to him, that by the adopting of some,ds be
scheme, as this two great advantages weal' be
obtained —(Hear, hear) In the first place,
...0
believe that they would get rid of many for,
and and dispose satisfactorily of disputing railway the
where the consideration of the best line diroeg" 05t
country involved immense pecuniary interests, the.Y.,,nblere
partica,
be dispassionately and impartiall; reflected on• bes
would also be the further advantage secured to the Pub
of a very much ch. aper railway accommodation Weld
they could obta;n by other means. Now he w°ol,l
just give an illustration of his argument, and it Wit' t„
show them the result of the system they were now soute
ing in respect of some of the great lines. The 'l° as
was aware there were several lines—he believed in
n the
ber three—prok,cted, connecting London with were
north, and terminating in the city of York. There ee,
three propositions of that kind now before the Pilo. c
and it was understood that whenever one of these c the
panies obtained the preference, or at all eventstboi
moment they got their Bill through Parliament, log
shares would sell at 201. premium. He was sPea, re•
within bounds, for 251. was the lowest amount °lot
mium to which the affair would advance, and herfthese',
saw the result of their decision in favour of one c'
lines would be to put into the pockets of one set of fog,:
a sum amounting to upwards of 5,000,0001. ate!' ,0
Now, was it possible, that where such a great bl ued to
to be made, that any party could safely be tills peas
make that boon at their own discretion ? Was,„ltjetti
sible to suppose that any body, be it what it mig""j„vet,
constituted as it might be, having such gigentiehP„'he'
—having • o vast a boon to make—would not ee
sieged and blockaded on all sides with applications
information?—(Hear, hear.) Independent of tiled,
was impossible that we should not have, as we now es•
gambling to an enormous extent, in London, blanch lit
ter, and Liverpool—to an extent not only fright"-,ied,
demoralising.---(Hear, hear.) After all, if this Pe' bat
not only would There be great public inconvenieucetoe
the public would be at the mercy of the companies' gyp'
latter would make what charges they liked. "II" t- de'
pose the Legislature would say, that they would of offer
tide in favour of one company, but one line, and who
that line to public tender, for the various compaßlesweala
might offer to compete for the line. The companies ;001,
put in their tenders, stating at what cost the/ ;„otile
execute the work, what accommodation they arge.
afford to the public, and what rates they would e'lo-X.
That tender would be open to the eyes of all the :lied
There would be no gambling, suck as was now: d its
on to so fearful an extent. Speculation would "11 oof
proper and legitimate field in the fair corneetiti%
capital. It could not be doubted that under such a si
rangement the companies could complete the iinesest
carry the public at a cheaper rate than was at Pre os°
attempted. For what was the fact ? He would sue end
the Bill had passed for the railway between Lealdialieps.
York. The capital subscribed was five or six °cent.;
The shares would rise in an hour forty or fifty Per -or/
for it was true that there were people in this en halt,
who would be willing to pay seven millions and ow five
calculating that, though the works would cost ellvtrac
or six millions, the company would be able to e) the
from the public a scale of rates which would e<l,°B beg.
average profit on a capital of seven millions alivafroø
If only 5,000,000/. were embarked in the work there
which the income was to be derived, in that o°l t re'
would be a considerable reduction of fares; andt„":lo,,
as
duction, in his opinion, be large, because they re'
his Hon. Friend near him had stated, that the al°,
ceipt fir the conveyance of passengers was 'sou"' cue-
pared with the fares charged, and they knew that °ode
siderable reduction of fares very often seareeilts he'
any, and sometimes no reduction in the lire"-,:tlotb
cause the number of passengers increased in pror_ ,be
If the Company, therefore, considered what /refs p 0
lowest amount of fares they could take, there lie ac'
doubt that a very large reduction of fares might,
epre'
complished. If they applied this principle in `mere to
sent session to the new lines of railway which vv
only
be brought before them, they would nott eas'
cause them to carry a greater number 0 'era
sengers than they otherwi. e would d", bile, ;
afford a greater accommodation to the Ppurcisa
but would also in the most legitimate manner 0„slayo
a comprehensive supervision in existing ro"„,-gle,
against which they would not be able to stratlesr,
which would force them to reduce their fares---(;orlt
hear)—because it was obvious, looking at the netArecl;
of railway lines by which the country was now c°v-
that all the lines we. e more or less competing Ilne,,s',ef)el
if a large number of the new lines with whicu-over
were to be occupied this session were required to )salty
the rate of fares, existing companies would of peeepat
be obliged to do the same thing.—(Hear, hear.) the
was a more proper way to bring down the fares ths,d,:e
Bill of last year.—(Hear, hear.) It might be sc:tdopt
him, •
answer to that he was advising the House t° -a it
a new system. The system was pursued in France, aPto,
might be asked how he could advise a course like
when the circumstances of the two countries wer.ees of
much different. France being behind most count° tee
Europe with respect to railway enterprise; W here
progress which had been made in England Althin at:few
~enee.
years was absolutely marvellous. At the eotn'cole4
meet it might have been necessary to give some sue
poi
to railway enterprise, but the circumstances wer each
completely altered. Now instead of stimulating '
speculation, it was highly:desirable it should be
Parties- now rush blindfold as it were into such slT,:bich
dons. There was a mania in the public mind! teeest•
it was important for the sake of the national -Its be
they should end, avour to modify and check. ;0 he
lieved that by deal;ng with Railway Companieseeteli
suggested they would have a prospect of satisfabefeee
disposing of the mass of railroad business coming 0t the
thorn this ~ession. He was aware that that was nt 0014 -
occasion to enter into a subject so large as Wait Wl°
be ore them ; but as it was his conviction thatoreti
not only extremely important, but extremely. and
that they should not lose a moment in invheastt:Bltrillea:tltecls,t
thoroughly looking into the subject—when tbd these
determine what was to be their course before a
Railway Bills proceeded farther—he was in„duvcerpore
make these observations, and there were very 'ee,;idis;
which he had to add. In the first place, be w urge"
pose of ohe or two objections which might be that it
against the course he advised. It would be sliti;eit
was unjust when particular parties displaYe-it,g- eeeer
genuity in making out lines of railway,
tion of those lines should be taken out of
It would be most unjust if they were not reroelli,
bed
for what they had done, but at present
vithereeJ nut
no claim whatever. Those Companies v hat -
yet created by Act of Parliament. TPno right whatever, but they were Petty_,er,,,,;e CO°pi,
liberty to create them or not ; and it was peg and ,
to them to say that these lines would be made:tt_ They
say, " but yon are not the parties to make 'O-o ble and
said that they should be well paid for all tr
.eto Pat'
expense in laying out the line, and bringing it 1 ask ,tf;
liatnent ; but that they had no claim whatever t° e viear
be the parties to he entrusted with it. The Hens any
decide what should be the proper remuneration; an. 1g
company taking the line should pay that exPit,leetiors
this manner justice would be done to the P' t'heoe'n
without abandoning the suggestions that had benciple he
out. He thought that to some extent the Pro; joiers,
had stated might be applied to branch lines, and the rates
as clauses, might be inserted in Bills, limiting These
of fares proposed to be charged.—(Hear' Colod"
principles were adopted last year by a"
mittee that met to decide conflicting 'lout the
ali the the members of the Committee agreed linen
subject the had to consider was, which of r Tee
afforded the best accommodation to the public" „,ot
tables of fares of each of the compamies were ::es de'
and the one that made the lowest table of faro
rinciPlet
dared to be the successful line. The samtheePreseer
might be applied to competing companies in
cseoseas t oini ebyt
same object in view. lie hoped that durinfiatirrortiry Oh";
session the House . would not pass anY.,f fareS.
hcoruegahtitntgh et
wpou
lines li c e ocu,fl dr
vvt
ao)h.t.;_ain.inifrre'sPeth!l:ei,:
without strictly looking into the table "
.0 thlte
e pilhe
only way in which they could do justicvat
were to et
was to look strict y at the tolls and fares t
throw° °our!.
charged. He hoped the sum scions he ba 1-1 is
would receive some consideration from the "a,' the 2'o
Baronet. How, then. were they to decide 000.
projects which his Hon. Friend had inform , Lord
aeee "" be
awaited its decision? It altogether
Paiarliament,
t.
Howick's) comprehension. How could . import-
said,
thorns ping
said, ei,e the subject that attention vvtliir
ante deserved? How could they ';,st
teethe
which of the numerous projects were the
Intitute the ree
into these
of support? How could they even eensro
queote number of Committees to inqu'rks of counsel
schemes? How find time for the remarks
deal w in
e"gaged, and how, in fine, could the pry thee._
the 258 scnemes, with the cumbrous Le nrojeco
tuse.ill,lEn
owta sbe delayed important thatbeyo
beyond
dhe
trheeallyprivile._.;',"t'osrfee„.tsh;eo;
postpone e"eonsidere°
she for one de r. cated any
If the Boise car
matters in the stronuest terms. -• l,ss --
these
talists inconvenience to the public of delayy
theoside for thes,
talists by the employment of funds laid i.arderrtd
then,
rice of •
to other
r p o e s,
countries,
risktts. that.aithafotrcatphietal
et.
that
dem, nt ot these plane as possible. 11' uhivist
deed, they would see the necessity for as d
, he increasedob.
selletnee—if the House considered tflitiwertst'euhiectirhaiDinelc
these few me
twhheeiiriirircigul;tiensudsutrhrii:suenddiiithigetuhletiessut,%ij.eocutisere
the delay he deprecated. He threw uht
segge,t so
ss
servittioi.s in the hope that they Int 4 It ?.he
satisfactory mode of deali g with the q"
the time 01 the
a ith that view only that he bad taken
tiP„ubjec t"
11,.use, and he fervently rucommenoed
aYEI
it"diate Conside,ation of the Hous.. e not „
Colonel SIBTHORP had the inisfortrirel Lord. anclve
to agree the general policy of the N°DI ith him' (de
this subject certaielx did not agree w
at the
would ask the Noble Lord how it wad- that,
l'edv a s

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