The Sun.
London, England, 1810-05-12 00:00:00

Granting tharone of these .privileges was imprope-.-
ly used, was the House on that account to give up
one of the greatest safeguards 'it and the nation pos•
sessed ? -He hoped that ProvidenCe„ would, avert
the.day that the Speaker of the House of COrn.
mons should appear -a
,pleader- at the bat of the
Court of Kitt's Bench then might their .
le ges be said to be at end.

extent of them. When the case came before ant"-
' tiler Court, that Court would look to the decision of
this House in - regard-to its privileges, by that dCci-
sion they are bound, and must a& accordingly.
Mr. PONSONBY observed, that the only question
now was, whether the report should lie On the ta-
ble, and he tegretted that the house had not decided
that question before they had entered into what he

conceived to be a premature discussion. The mere
laying of the-report on the 'table signified no more
to the main question, than if.he-7.ixlere to.takePtf his
hat and throw it on the table. He hoped therefore
that House would put an end to all' apprehension
; on that score) and hot-the report be laid on the ta-
ble; that being accomplished, he •hoped Ministers
would then muster uO.resolutimi enough. to tell the
House what course they meant to recommend on
the occasion.
The question was then put, and the report was
ordei-ed to lie on thetable.
Mr. DAVIES GIDDY again rose to make a motion
founded on the report. He expressed his regret
that some Gentlemen named on the Committee
had not done their duty by attending in the
_Committee, because then their-opinions might have
been known. The Hon. Gentleman then recapitu-
lated what he had stated on moving, bat the re-
, port be laid on the table, as to tlaethree modes to be
pursued, viz. first, the inhibition to the Courts of
1.33. v in proceeding in the action—secondly, as
to the Committal of every person concerned in
stung out the writ against the Speaker, or in
' serving the notice of trial (which would not- pre-
clude the parties from proceeding in the ;
and • thirdly, the pleading in extenuation, .or in
Bar, to the action. He therefore should move
that the Speaker and Serjeant might, as there
was no time to be lost, be permitted to appear and
plead, meaning to follow, pp that ,motion with an-
other that the Attorney-General' be direaed to kr
fend them. The Hon. Gentleman, after making
sume further observations, moved
" That the _Speaker and Serjeant be permitted to
appear. and plead to ihe said actions." .
On the question being put,
?d. PONsoNay arose... lie presumed that the MO!.
tion just made tnet with the concurrence of his Ma-
jesty's Ministere.. Before he proceeded. he wished
to understand whether he was correet in that suppo-
sition.

Lord FoLKSTONE did not intend to address the
House had not an eXpression of his 'been o'er-
heard by the Noble Lord who had just sat down.
He contended that there might arise a state of pSi-
vilege ilh'gal enough to be disputed in a Court of
Justice ; for instance, if it had assumed the power
of pillory ; suppose it had sent Mr. Gale Jones on a
horse with his face to the tail, to Charing-cross,
there to be pot on the pillory, and afterwatds sent
to Newgate, in such a case it would be unjust ; if
there was no redress, it would be monstrous if it
had exercised such a right. He wished the House to
take into consideration the Suestion of pleadingin
bar. He thought the report deficgaienfin many points
on which it pretended to infortn'the House. He ad-
verted to its st4.tements-respeding the proceedingsin
a Coot of JuStice in the third of. Cliailes I. and its
• arguments on the Bill of Rights, Which he said did
not relate to any thing in but out of 'Parliament.—
'rlie-.case of Sir J. Elliot, which had bee' contended
i as a breach of privilege, had been tried hi the Court
below, nor was the declaration then sufficient till a
Writ of error bad been entered in the House of Lords.
1 The Report had taken notice of the case of Sir F.
, Pemberton, but he conceited it initiossible on this
ground to maintain the•bdrine of pleading in abate-
: naent of jurisdiction. If this were persisted in,. it
would be impossible not to examine the privileges
of the House, but if it had been acted upon accord-
ing to those privileges, which be acknowledged to
be a khown law, though, as Lord Coke sap, not
-muchiougheafter.
. Mr. WHITEHEAD rose to order.—The qtestion
before the House was, ' whether the -Report should,
lie on the table.. . The- Learned Gentlemen, le said,
who frame() this petition, should tell the House
whatthey intended to do, and not endeavour to
take advantage of what might be now said. TO the
question itself he had no objection. ' _
Mr.,'W. Wys NE agreed with the doelrine of he
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Giddy). He was of
opinion that Whatever related to the privileges of the . .
House'should be discussed here, and no weere else.. t The ,•CriANCELLOR of • the EXCHEQUER had co
In this principle he-Could see nothing contrary 16 difficulty in answering in the affirmative. , .
reason or justice.' He then quoted the case of Mr. Mr. PONSONDY said, that he would be ' the-last
White, who in the year h 659 bad been fined 10001. j man to ,:advise such a contest as that Right Hon.
for being guilty of a hreach of privilege. It is cer- Gentleman had involved. the House in ; but being
tain that the House might haveeabused its privileges once engaged in it, he would be among the first to
'' in one or two iaseeices, but it did not therefore 10l- offer auce advice as he thought to be expedient. It
. low that it 7. Hal totally resign them. Mr. Fox, he was for this reason he thought that the Right Hon.
Gentleman. ought not to shrink from the responsi,
said, was' et- opiniois that it was absurd •to argue On
. the extssenes of privilege, which were so nicely ba- bility of giving his advice in a difficulty which he
lanced. If the prineiphe of destroying the privileges had not shrunk from the responsibility 'of -creating.
of Parliames , were encouraged, the King might Or Upon a question which had so considerably ens
der' the '.. regiment of Foot Guards to March into grossed and agitated the public mind, he kneW not
whether the- opinions . he -was about to offer would
the lioese of Lords, and take their seats as Peers, '
, be 'popular or unpopular—whether the magnitude iett ;he COtirt of
.Pailiament should be the source
and publicity of the subject would visit upon him
avower was convinced was the first principle of 1'
t a weight of odium or applause, altoge,ther dii.prh-
abuse; •Ithe Cohstitutien ; that power it might perhaps-
. portioned to his humble and obtrusive efforts to do
nit it should not, therefore; tail .under the
. jurisdidion of an inferior Court. If seis s,,,em his - duty conscientiously ; but this he knew, that
were once established;-With equal justice might the =this was a question of that unparalleled importance,-
Court of Quarter Sessions decide on the conductof that if it be decided in a certain way, the liberties
Gentleman• of that, country were at an end.. He. thought that
that of King's Bench. The Learned.
noticed the case of. Sir W Waite's-Is, which was re. -House had the right of .committing _for a libel..
.
pui tc-d fr.;:n tl';‘: Conumnittee appointed so inquiti ihto This wns his oonscientionC npinion--an opinion
that' might be unpopular, and which he should regret
the merits of it; and the opulion of that COminittee
e -
was, that Sir Robert Sawyer- oisght to be heard by.,
to find so for,, as a Member of Parliament, he
•to d . must ever respeti the opinions of the people. He
Counsel, and the Attorney-General was directed ai-
would then, however,,as he would the King, serve'
• fend loin: There 'was-another cast,
which we san action- brought by my 'Lord Peterba both, but flatter neither. In proceeding to state his
opinion, he should ground what be had to offer upon .
rough for Scan. Mag. i,i,..hici, , was compromised by '
the payment of -daiiiiiees to the, amount Of 1501. two principles :—the first was, that each House of
These cases, however, were sufficient to shew, that Parliament was, .in its respedive capacity, the sole
in all times the power and authority' of the House , judge of its own privileges—the sole judge how far
had been exercised; and never denied; when it be- thOse,privileges are to be carried—and the sole judge
came a question in any of the Cowls of Law.: •In of the manner in which such privileges are to bp
addition to these, Gentlemen, if they would take the'! exercised. It followed- by consequence, that no
trouble to refer to R.
find a case in which one Bur R. North's Lite of the Lord Keep- other Court in this country had the. right inter,
er Guildford, would
pose their opinion- upon what was privilege of Par-
-
l
donean attorney, having infringed the privileges of liament—the nature, the extent, or the exercise c
this House, was ordefed into the custody of the Ser- it. The other proposition which he would lay
jeans at Arms; it so happened, that betore the Ser- t down as a principle was, that whenever the Court-
jeant at Arms could arrest.Burdone the House was I of Parliament,; no matter which. House of Par-
prorogued, and Burdon brought his adion•of da- • liament, had declared - a matter to be paivilege,
-
mages against the carjeant for asaaulta, as often as he that, all other Courts throughout the country
attempted to take him, for Burdon resisted the exe- were bound to pay respett and implicit obedience
cution of the warrant. Ito that declaration. To shew that lie did not
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL rose to offer his full speak from himself merely, that, the opinions he had
and entire approbatiOn to the explicit statement of
formed had the sandion of the wisest and the-
the• Learned Gentleman, in answer to the - reasons greatest authorities ; he should; as she went along,
which the Noble Lord had given, why the House refer to some-hooka he had brought with him, and
should not. be allowed to hold the possession of the to prevent all rnistakes-slilting from a.lapse of me-
jurisdidion which they claimed. The whole of the mory, or inaccuracy, of transcription—as also to
arguments of the Noble, Lord went to inculcate the evince that he made no purposely _garbled -extract
opihion that if this jurisdiction was allowed, then it that bore a differept meaning from the. whole of the
alias unconstitutional, because the subject must suf- context from which it was aaken, he should read
fer, having no Court to which he could appeal in case the passages from the books • themselves : the
of wrong. Ilthat.arguinent went for any thing, it first book to which he should lefer, was, -Sir Ma-
WAs equally applicable to a Court of Law, because, thew , Hale's Treatise _upon the Original Ihstitn-
making every allowance ter the infirmities of man's nee, . Power,, and Jut-Licht-lion .of Parliatnehto—
nature, the decision "might be that the House had the Fero the Right Honourable Gentleman refereed
right to imprison, and that might be suppOsed an to the books, -and read from it a passage which was
error in judgment. He would suppose au action in substance as follows : ‘,ll For as emery Court 'of
iva4'brought in the Common Pleas, and. such a deei- , Juice bath laws and costoins for ita.clireci ion ; some
Sion was %come to, -that a writ of error-Was had . to- the civil and canon, souse the-conuitou law,
in the King's Bench; and that the JPdges stiOrild i others their own recalia laws and customs,-so the
collude together to defeat the law of the land (whieh ' High Ceprt of Parliainenr bath also its oe.hi peculia‘r
he should not for a moment believe), :and that the ,law, called-the lec et consuetudo Pifilia,neuti. Buis
delriier resort was the House of Lords, -who should proptlis regnlis et consuetudinibai‘consistit Silo lee, a
on the appeel, come to a' similar . decision. Then, law not -to be judgedOf byy-other Courts, or :geese
be:would ask, what remedy. had the tarty aggrieved tioned therein, and the same is law, because ieCun-
who stiffered by the decision ?--Would it be 'con- dam legem et consuetudinem Pailiamenti; and the l'a--
tended, that because a jurisdiction might;in the•ex. ther for, that every• Member of Parliament bath a jue
ercise of it; be abused, that; th-erefOre, it could not i diCial place, and cannoshe a witness." Here he neSd
exist in laW ?' 'Such a profeasition was monstrous, t scarcely remind tlse HOttste hat Lord.Hale.took large:-
and if suffered to obtain; inust not'only put an end i ly from Sir Edward Coke, Whose opinions upon this
to all the priarileg-es, but also to the 'administration .great question bad beeri- ,adopted implicitly by
of justice its. every Court in The kingdom. The i Lord Hale; both these great aottiorities had ildirrried
Learned Gentleman -.opposite hadeso.well elucidated the'priv ilege of Parliament to be trot merely ler Par-
ibe subjea'ts that it was not necessary for him to say liaMen‘ari,ier tetrce, not the lass of that House but
more on that part of the _ case ;-'to allow the inter-,; the-law of Pie land.. There was, bewever, one oba
ference of any of the loWer Courts would be to 1 JeCtion to which he could not more opportunely ad-
pair With all jurisdiaibe -.;- as U,cll might it be' said evert to thin new ; it • had been Industriously giveh
that the Court of Quartee Shsseona had the right of : out that: though. these lawyers • weie in general
interfering with the Court a sting's Benclo•or the e sound legal authorities, that; yet they had Miler lUD
highest tribunal, the House of' Lords,, as that the, mhch reverence 101' hirliameot—that they_ had too
Court of King's Bench could: controhl the aurisdics , high a notion of the, powers and euthorities. of 'l),;r-
Lion. of this House. The House.Of Commons Were. 'lien-tent, and were,. in tact, too muel c.l dsib- ,1 a s ou t yst, le
the sole judges of their own: privileges, and of the , abject prejudices of their days, to be relied upon los-