The Sun.
London, England, 1828-06-11 00:00:00

boa! he satisfia*witirihe clearness and feline-es of demon-
stration of the propriety of any change. Ido not speak
of one period only, because the same system was acted on
twelve years after, when the new ,Act of Settlement was
passed for excluding ,theitiettee;erf. .?amen'. the Second ; and
that poetesses the same character, and is governed by the
saute Teeliegs; with the measure a 1698 ; and. I believe
that, at the period of the Union, another compact to
the same effect was entered into with the utmost possible
deliberation and solemnity. Thus I have attempted to give
an answer to the question of the Noble Earl, which, however,
I think was much better answered by my Noble Friend.
near tile; -who truly said, that it was to the Revnlutio,
alone we owed the confirmation of the reformation, and
the first existence of our Protestant Church and State:—
We ought net to hazard lightly the great good,-the wane--
ecendant blessings eve-have so long -anti so much to our ad-
vantage and prosperity enjoyed.' My Lords, we are told
that the:eranyfillitrof -Ireland requires us to yield, to the
claims of the Catholics, and change, away that from which
we Lave derived so initCh beriett.* put r ask, my Lords,
what chatig'is-it that the tranquillity of Ireland requires?
What is it that weean de to tranquillize Ireland, when I
see that
ti.mlaitiatileLson(s that will
havetio t suffer
i
to
c
e, and
endea-
voured to inform my mind upon 'the sultject, and the
only conclusion I can eome to is, that there are agitators
in Ireland, occupying a particular.'situation, esercisitlS
sway and dominion over the people of that country,
who telLuq that-they will nut allow it to' be tranquil until
we consent •to the alterations they wish. This ques-
tion has been so repeatedly before us, and has been
so fully diskussed in all • its bearings, that it is. im-
possible for us to shed our eyes to what they really want.
They want; my Lords, to be admitted to - this and
the other House of Parliament—they want to have
equal participation with Protestants to all the offices in the
State, with One or two exceptions. It is in this view, that
we must now discuss the question. 'With respect to this
House of Parliament, at present a Prottstatit'Houtte of
Peers, they demand that Protestant and Catholic Nobles
should be admitted on emeal termse No longer, then,
would it be a Protestant House olPeers. With respect to
the other Houte of Parliament, now a Protestant House of
Vommons, they demand to he admitted on an equal footing
with Protestants. No longer, then, would it be a Pro-
testant House of Parliament. They detnsnd to be admitted'
to all the offices of the State. No longer, then, would it
be a Protestant Government as settled at the Revolution.
Weare then called upon to make a change, which I tun not
prepared to say ought, under no circumstances, to be made,
Inttewe are called upon to alter the Protestant frame of the
Government in every particular, so that it would be no
longer a Protestant, but a mixed Government. I do room-
berwhen, iu the early period of these discuseiont, these con-
cessions were asked as ahem ; it was said, " they will only
admit a few Peers into the House of Lords, and, I believe it
, was Burke said it, " some three or four Members• into the
House of Commons." But, my Lords, the times and cir-
cumstances then have changed in a most extraordinary
manner.—(Cheers from the Opposition benches.)—From
whatever quarter those cheers may come, I thank the
' Noble Lords for therm It was said then that three or
four Members would be returned to the House ofCom-
mons, but we are now told by those who know most of
the state of 'that country, Ireland I mean, that the whole
representation is in the power of the Catholics. This, my
Lords, is a made a boast, and I could read, passage after
passage, front proceedings, not of the Catholic Association
merely, hut of different bodies assembled in different parte
of Ireland, in which it is boasted ;—but I may be asked,
do I place implicit reliance on the boasts of persons 'at
such meetings as I have alluded to? I answer no, that I
did not when I first beard of them, but when I recollect
what took place after the last diesOlution of Parliament, I
was confirmed in the truth of a great part of what I had pre-
vionsly heard. It is then, my Lords, no longer a feather
in the scale that we are called upon to yield, but substan-
tial. power—a full participation in the Constitution. Let us,
for a moment, consider by whom this power is. directed-L—
-let us look, for a moment, in what manner it is swayed.
It is supposed that the influence which directs that power,
if what is called Catholic Emancipation were granted,
would be at an end. Ido not profess to say that it would
not—but I think there are reasons sufficient arising out of
the present situation of things to lead me to conclude that
the influence now exerted by the Catholic Hierarchy in Ire-
land would not be less effective when backed by the ad-
mission of this sect to power than it is now. think lam
justified in.coneluding that their influence-would be ex-
erted with much more effect. Look, my Lords, for an in-
shiny at the state of things iw that country,•and see whe-
ther lam without reason in myeanchision. Look, my
Lords, at what Ic taken place there within the last six
that uncolitrattliable ' influence which the Catholic priest-
hoodor seven years. You will see the arrival at maturity of
exercise over Ireland, acquired in a great degree from
the measure alluded to, but greatly assiste4.by the elective
franchise bestowed upon the people. 'Their influence is
with the lower , chow of the population, and by theist they
overhear every thing else that takes place in Ireland. No
man there dares standup against them.' O'Connell, sup-
posed to' be the ruling demagogue,! directing•,every thing
by!his'ivill—if be in the slightest degree offends—rres_
paws aver so little upon the wishes or inclinations of the
priesthood—you see him in a moment compelled to sub-
mit, to prostrate himself before them, and sign his recan-
tation. -My Lords, as long as Ireland remains in the state
it,now. is with , respect to the obedience of the people to
the clergy--as long as the religion of Ireland combines
Catholic—fretned as it now is—l am satisfied that we shall
never succeed in abolishing that influence. And so far
from our doing what is now proposed to us having that
effect, it will be giving to that influence substantial power. '
My Lords, contemplate for an instant the picture that
would be presented to our view, were this measure car-
ried. Here is, a Government withee people like that of
Ireland—active, zealous, enterprising—under the sway of
persons possessing the political power which this measure
would give them. These persons •too, be it remembered,
so possessing power, being in no respect connected with,
or. dependent on the State. This is a state of things tin-
' exampled in history. It is a great evil, out of which eve-
must endeavour, some time or other, to extricate - our-
eeleeSe..—.(Hear. )-1--13tit quite sure lam, nay Lords, that thiS
is not to be accomplished by any measure such as has been
hitherto proposed. Every body mustaihnit, that if this state-
ment be correct, the situation of things in Ireland would be
most alarming. In that case you would say, if we make
any concessions which may be attended with the conse-
quences I have adverted to—namely,. a sway exercised
over the population of .Ireland, backed by great political
power, by a body of men unconnected with aturindepen-
dent of the Government—your Lordships would say, be-
- fore we make this experiment, which, in its results, may
be fatal to our interests if nut well guarded, give us, at any
rate, some security that the power we bestow may not be
abused ; we must have something in the shape of security
to guard that most dear of our goods, the Protestant Con-
stitution, under which we have so long lived. My Lords,
at the outset of these discussions, the Catholics told us, in
terms, that they were willing to give whatever security
they conscientiously could ; but now they plainly give us
to understand that no securities will be given by them,—
They, were- willing at first, in promise at least, to do so ;
but now, as documents I ant in possession of prove, they
refuse to do so. I would read some of these documents,
but.l conceive the fact to he so notorious as to render it
needless for rue to do so. They now tell us thet they will
receive nothing but absolute, unconditional, unfettered
ematicipation. (Hear.) I am now repeating, my Lords, not
the language of the Catholic Association merely, but of the
notes and resolutions of bodies of different descriptions as-
sembled;if
clergytlie Clergy.and 1 a i
tylthisavtehperlea,nidgeetai,gaenodf
i,:
w meetingshik,
.in every part of Ireland—not bodies of the laity
whichin
merely,
both
the most inflammatory speeches have been made by mem-
bers of the Church. I say this without fear of contradic-
tion, and, do not think it necessary to advert to the docu-
meats which authorise me in making the assertion I have
made. Those documents, I repeat, state that the Roman
Catholics say that they will give no securities, but that they
must have unqualified emancipation. They will have no
compromise, for every thing is in Abeir power. Ido not
remember the precise words used by Mr. O'Connell, but
his language is much stronger than this—" in our bumble
fortunes we held a far different situation front what we now
do ; our friends wished us to accept the terms offered us ;
we were on the point of yielding, but we have mole an
effectual resistance, and now occupy our better station. Was
it from the.moderation of our manner, the softness of tone
in our language, that we have succeeded in ereiviug
the
there ? No; it was the boldness of our designs:
,Cita,tahtolaincsy
threats we held out, the language and tone we assumed,
that placed us on the vantage ground on
present stand." This, my Lords, is the language of Mr.
O'Connell. Now, my Lords, I will ask, what right have
'men like the Catholicteof Ireland to demand a participation
in our Protestant Constitution, when they tell us distinctly
which ac!
_at
they will give no security for its preservation. What right
have men to demand this,
but to demand it, I will not say a right, but to extort -it
not as a boon as they did at first,
rate by threats
cetustitution—to admit thene to a
to take place in the event of our going to
admit tiP
t
e
your Lordships disposed to yield to such threats as these?
fworf°azivi ely'uaisihiisaf iltniykoetllloa eti gh sword's
10 e ?- • ( Hear, hear, hear.) Are
wiArtehiLottheilpisapoles.cifl :hoe
seat in this liouse, for the purpose of making laws for
on these terms,
this Protestant country? By the spirit of our Protestant