The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-27 00:00:00

sponsibility in that Board. On one occasion, Captain
Berkeley proposed an improvement with regard to the
complements of ships ; and, though he considered he
had a majority of the Board with him, he afterwards
found that his proposal was upset in the private room.
He in consequence left the Board. He gave the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, the' Secretary: of
State for the Home Department, full credit for the im-
provements which he made when at the head of the
Admiralty Board ; but he could not give the present
Board much credit for the mode in which they con-
ducted the navigation of the country. It was a disgrace
to the country, that while France and America had the
Archimedian screw in full operation, the navy of this
country had not a single vessel to which this great im-
provement was applied. He recollected, that in March
last, he complained of the manner in which the Board
of Admiralty had acted towards Mr. Smith, who inven-
ted that invaluable improvement. He was then told
that the Rattler was being completed, and that
this improvement would be applied to her ; but at this
very moment, though twelve months had elapsed, there
was no Rattler in commission. He was aware she was
cruising up and down the river for the purpose of mak-
ing experiments, but it was not Mr. Smith's screw which
was applied. Other machinery had been applied, but it
was always found that the speed of the vessel had
diminished. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman then
referred to the contemplated employment of the Pene-
lope and Prometheus vessels on the coast of Africa, for
the suppression of the slave trade, and said that they
would be of far more service at home. He complained
of the navy being employed to collect the poor-
rates in Ireland.—(Cries of " Hear.") He recollected
that complaints were made with regard to the employ-
ment of naval officers on the coast guard service. It
was not now looked upon as an invidious service ; but
he certainly was of opinion that it was a disgrace to the
navy to be employed m collecting poor-rates on the
coast of Ireland, and to bring an 84-pounder to bear on
some farm-house in Connaught. It was something
equal to what had been done at Tahiti. He complained
of the ignorance in which they were left with regard to
the experiment made upon the Fox frigate. From the
bow of that vessel 15 feet had been cut off, and 20 feet
of new material had been added. She had been
sent to the Shannon ; and though the whole
naval world were most curious to know the result,
they were left in entire ignorance on the subject.
With reference to the subject of shipwrecks, it appeared
from the Report of the Shipwrecks' Committee, that
officers frequently risked their lives without receiving
any pension as a reward; and even where officers lost
their lives no pension was bestowed. He thought that
some alteration ought to be made. Great complaints
had been made on the other side of the appointments of
Lord Minto as being of a political character. He thought
there was no foundation for that charge. Admiral
Stopford would not have been appointed to the Medi-
terranean if the First Lord of the Admiralty had been
actuated by political considerations. He would reserve
any further remarks which he might be desirous of
making until after the Secretary for the Admiralty
had made his statement.

Dr. BOWRING regretted that some uniform mode
of preparing these estimates was not adopted by the
Admiralty. The great error was, that the department
of expenditure was always made the department of
receipt. In the estimates of this year, there was
171,4791. received by the naval department, and de-
ducted from the expenditure. He thought it was ex-
tremely important that the gross revenues should come
into the hands of the Government, and that a different
mode of preparing the accounts should be adopted.
The accounts could never be satisfactory till the princi-
ple was established that whatever was realised from and
for the public service should be paid into the Exchequer,
and that no department should realise for itself. All
ought to be paid into the Queen's Exchequer. Ile
hoped that, little by little, they should reach the ultima
Thule of his desires in these matters ; but, until they
did so, he should not cease to protest against the esti-
mates in the form and extent which they now assumed.
Captain PLUMRIDGE had only one suggestion at
that moment to offer to the House. Considering the
high and responsible duties attached to the master of a
vessel in her Majesty's service, he thought it but fair
that that meritorious class of officers should be entitled
to gain the rank of captain.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. HERBERT (who spoke so hurriedly and
so indistinctly, that it was with the greatest difficulty
a whole sentence could be heard in the gallery) was
understood to say, that after the miscellaneous conver-
sation, which always took place before the question was
entered into, a good deal of matter was cleared away,
and he would show his anxiety to save trouble to the
House by postponing any vote on which there might be
any strong difference of opinion. Upon the Admiralty vote,
there were two alterations which were not very material.
There was an item for the manufacture of an instrument
to make lunar observations. He was not very well ac-
quainted with scientific pursuits, but this instrument had
received the approbation of Sir W. Herschell and other
eminent astronomers. With respect to the ordnance survey
seventeen surveys were in progress. It was the inten-
tion of the Government to re-establish Deptford as a
construction
cimader that
a t
sh e e
by
yeare
pi
purpose
to
ts ofhre
fe, had
02,AR33.08e 9i beenk4
Right
Hon.the numberarie in
the
building yard. He mentioned last year that a large
steamer had been building there. It was now completed,
and two or three others were in progress of completion.
There was an increase of two hundred shipwrights in
this yard, and of an inspector, necessary for supervision.
At Woolwick dockyard there was an increase of two in-
spectors and fifty shipwrights, There had been also an
additional item of expenditure for this dockyard, viz.,
lighting with gas instead of oil. A school for naval ap-
prentices had likewise been established, and he could
speak from personal knowledge of its efficiency. There
was likewise an item for the manufacture of steam-
engines, and salaries to additional inspectors
for superintending their manufacture. At
Chatham
thef an
extra
Ply-
mouth there was no alteration of any importance.
At
nextcon-
sequence
(as well as we could understand tha Hon. Gentleman)
refer to the item which showed the expenses incurred
3g46Bwconsequenceo Baronet
o f
t tonsth e
f copper
by the copper-sheathing of the several vessels of war in
yoot hfe ea
ardi o clBk4yo
alterationaai rtp dpi
a,
edadni
increased
to
n e expense
of State for the Home Department in the
disposal of convicts, a considerable difference would be
r was
tons.
tincurredH 3
Ine
sithou
dn
made in the amount of the regular paid labour which
would be required for the operations to be carried on
in the several dockyards; but he (Mr. S. Herbert) had
no doubt but any extra expense thus incurred would be
more than compensated for by the superior manner
in which the work would be done. He had now gone
through all the separate items, with the exception of the
smaller and more insignificant, and all that remained
for him to say now was, that a large sum had been ex-
pended in the improvement of the docks ; and besides,
they were gradually getting rid of the more expensive
portion of the machinery in those different stations.
Although it was not possible,
at the present moment, to
make any diminution in the numerical strength of the
navy, yet the House might depend upon it that the
strictest regard had been paid to economy, consistent
with the interests of the empire. The number re-
quired in the present estimates would be 30,000 men,
with 10,500 marines, and 2,000 boys.
Mr. WILLIAMS wished to know what were the cir-
cumstances of the country, which could justify the vote
of a sum for the naval service this year which exceeded
that of the year 1835 by nearly two millions of money.
He felt strongly bound to object to the vote for any
item for the support of the marines who were required
to do duty on shore, for he considered them as part
and parcel of a standing army, and bound to act in
common with the soldiers. What he wanted to know
from the Hon. Gentleman opposite, the Secretary of the
Admiralty, was, what were the necessities of the country
now above those of 1837, which required an increase of
25,000 men?
Sir G. COCKBURN said the Government were
anxious to have a certain number of marines in the case
of our going to war suddenly. Marines were useful,
too, on shore in dock-yards, &c., and in the event of a
war suddenly occurring, when it would be necessary at
once to man ships fully, they' would suit the service
much better than soldiers, who would become sea-sick.
Besides, it was necessary that we should compete with
other nations, which were extending their marine ; and
as two-thirds of our seamen were generally on foreign
service, unless we could get the entire command of the
Channel at the commencement of a war, those seamen
would go into French prisons instead of into our. ships.
To prevent such a misfortune, an increase in the marine
force would be requisite.
Sir C. NAPIER quite agreed with what had fallen
from the Eon. and Gallant Admiral. He wished to
make a suggestion respecting the manning of our
ships. He thought the guard-ships ought to be fully
manned with men fit for active service instead of de-
crepid men, who, when they returned from sea, were
generally obliged to be sent to hospital. If the guard-
ships were fully manned, the men could be drafted from
them into the vessels for service, and then those vessels
would not be detained five or six, and sometimes even nine
months, in port, waiting for their full complement of men.
The Hon. and Gallant Member then adverted to the
manner in which the magazines in ships were fitted up,
which he condemned very much, and stated his opinion,
that unless our naval officers were better trained, we
must suffer much from the enemy in time of war.
Admiral DUNDAS had no such apprehensions as
the Gallant Officer who spoke last. If we had two
hundred steamers with thirty-two pounders, we might
defy the navy of the world.
After some observations from Sir G. COCKBURN and
Sir C. NAPIER,
Dr. BOWRING said the objection of the Hon.
Member for Coventry had not been noticed, namely,
that an increase in the marine force was, in fact, an in-
crease in the standing army.
Captain PECHELL hoped that an explanation would
be given to induce his Hon. Friend to withdraw his mo-
tion. Tint if a satisfactory explanation was not given,
he would move au amendment, He hoped, however, it
would not be necessary to press the motion. Before he
sat down ho wished to ask if it were true that the crows
of her Majesty's ships had been employed in levying
poor-rates in Ireland ?—(Hear, hear.) He thought
that a great' improvement might be effected by
employing steam-vessels instead of frigates to
carry out Governors to such places as Gibraltar, Ho
was sure that suoh employment of frigates gave
very great dissatisfaction to the officers, and served
to change her Majesty's ships into floating ta-
verns, and caused the dismissal of the Commander of
tiltl Wfffillite:ll4flr, IMP') Tig rnt
Pmtnin Pig, PP PI di@ €104Y4 s P,.P
mentary patrOnag..e, and the only questions asked of a
candidate were—Who recommended you ? and, Whom
did you vote for at the last election ?—(Hear, and a
19119 He hoped the whole system would be changed,
a*r A4*jr.ffi allp,Fooppciefit oroi hYP
power o appointing fit peraons, sOeding ipeT
the naval service.—(Hear.) Ile oso #100.4 Ole 1-IR.
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