The Sun.
London, England, 1819-12-08 00:00:00

LONDON PUITION.

The Sheriffs of the City of London presented a
'Petition- from the Common Council against the
iucasores- pending in Pat liament, which vas read.
.0n" the moving that it should be laid on the
table,
• Mr. Alderman WooD took occasion to express
concurrence in the opinions it embodied, and
to state his .iews on the subject. He was per-
suaded that the t alarm produced in the minds of
many Gentlemen-was sustained by abserd state-
"nienrs ; and ridiculed the story of stones having
been got together on the place of meeting at
Manchestir. He wished something to be done
'to conciliate the people; but nothing was done
'either for that purpose, or to alleviate the dis-
fres,: that prevailed, or to .find employment for
'the induSttions poor. Nothing had been done for
lrelatot, though it appeared in 1810 that six mil-
lions'of acres were lying uncultivated, (two mil-.
lions and a half of which were capable of being
amide immediately productive) anrf yet Parliament
Fast Session, rather voted 50,0001. to send emi-
grants to Africa, than employed it to bring this
waste in'o a eseful condition. He professed him•
evil anxious for general investigation, Anil for
such a Retorm as was indicated by au Hon. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Lierubion's) notice. It was in vain
to oppose this course, for the peoplc.would have
Reform ; and no other measures, though they
might rttat d it by severity, could prevent that
issue. It was equally in vain to lay taxes on the
press, for if the people could riot buy publications
cheap, they would, as they did on the Continent,
contrive to have the same doctrines from dearer
periodicel works read to them.
Mr: THORP tolloWeil on the stone side, but ex-
essed his satisfaction that the Seditious Meet-
iegs Mils had been made temporary. •He did not
thiuk there was sufficient evidence before the
House upOn which to found the measures pro-
poi, d, and was convinced with his worthy col-
league that the alarm which existed was exagge-
rated.
otter a few words from Mr. Alderman WAITH-
MAN, the 'Petition was laid on the table, and °l-
de red to be printed.
MAGISTRACY OF NORFOLK.
Mr. Enmutin Wont HOUSB rose for the purpose
of maliiug a communication to the House on a
sunitct conuectcd %vitt) Lord Suffield, the Loud
Li iiieoato of the County of Not folk. He should
abstaiu trum making any C0111111:11t upon the do-

cumenls ire wag going to read, and ShotAd
commence, as a matter of politic , ditty, by
a le ter Wirich he had yesterdav,teceived from Lord
Suffield. The lion. Member then read the follow-
ing letter :
" Gunton, Dec. 4.
"-Dear attr exceedingly obliged to you for
your letter of yesterday, in reply to which I beg leave to say,
_that I am not conscious of having acted with any partiality
respecting the insertion of gentlemen in the Commission of
the Peace, of which I think the Commission itself, with the
additions made to it, affords pretty strong evidence.
" I recollect to have had sonic conversation with Mr. Coke
at General Money's, on the subject of the Commission, but
am not aware of a promise on my part to insert any gentle-
men Mr. Coke might name; nor, bad I been so disposed,
did Mr. Coke give me an opportunity, for I hever had
the honour of receiving an application from him to that
effect; and a list of names sent by Mr. Coke to the Clerk of
the Peace, even sopine,ing such a list to have been sent,
could not he consiJerill by use in that point of view.
" In reference to Mr. Coke's assertion, that gentlemen
have been added to the Commission by the Loral Chancellor
iu conseysence of my refusal, 1 believe the statement to be
absolotely erroneous, and that no such circumstance has
taktn place since I have had the; honour of being LieutenaAt
• of Norfolk.

" I think both yourself and Colonel Workhouse can vouch
for my impa►tiality, as I have certainly declined some appli-
rations (ruin both of you, when it oli:1 not appear to me there
was a want of Magistrates, or fur other reasons.
" I am, dear Wodehouse, yours faithfully,

" SUFFIELD."
tie ruccived this cowmen,' ation yesterday, and
had intended to have hid it befo-e the [louse last
night, had not certain circumstances prevented
In the interval, he had an interview vs•itli
the Loill Chancellor, vvho had informed him, th;it
lie had no recollection of the circumstances to
which his Ilon. colleague (Mr. Coke) bad on a
former night alluded. Since that period he bad
Jet-dyed the following letter from his Lotdshtil► :

" Pear Sir---,The assistance with which' the Chancellor is
favoured by the Custodes Rotulorum, in selecting persons to
be placed in the Commission of the Peace in different coun-
ties, of whose qualifications he cannot have personal know-
ledge. has established a habit of the Chancellor's placing in
the Commission Gentlemen recommenjed by them. But this
is mere recommendation, however much to be respected; and
if the Chancellor doubts the propriety of placing any person
so recommended in the Commission, he acts upon his own
judgment.
" If the Custos Botulorum declines to recommend any
Gentleman applying to him to be so recommended, and that
Gentleman applies to the Chancellor, the Chancellor judges
for himself whether he will place the name in the Commis-
sion notwithstanding the objection, generally, if not always,
first communicating with the Custos Itotulorum upon the
subjeck of the ohjection.
" I am nut able to call back to my recollection the cirenm-
stances- which may hare taken place respecting the Norfolk
matter, which has been mentioned. I have a faint recollec-
tion that some mention was some time ago made to me, by
whom I cannot say, respecting the want of Magistrate; in
sonic part of that county. What was done upon that t can-
not ascertain ; but my-secretary of commissions having, at
nly instance, looked into the correspondence and papers for
ten years, as he informs me. finds nothing relative to the ap-
pointment of Justices in that comity, in which coihmunication
his not been had with Lord Suffield. If any other person
applied to me, I therefore suppose I must have communicat-
ed with Lord S. ; but the only way, perhaps, in which ac-
curate information can be obtained, is by Lord S.'s inspect-
ing the Commission, and seeing whether any names have
been therein inserted without communication with him,
and, on the other hand, Mr. C. should state the particulars
to which lie alluded.

It is possible, though 1(10 not recollect the fact, that 1
have been applied to, to place gentlemen in this Commission
nut. recommended by Lord S. I think it veryimprobable that
I should have placed their names in the Comzuission without
obset ving the civility of unmunicating to Lord S. that such
application bad been made to MC, though after such commu-
nicition, I should of course have decided upon the matter as
it appeared to me to be right, if there had been and• difference
of opinion. That. there has been any such Ido nut recollect.

" It occurs to me to mei►tion, that there are two► matters
which ate exceptions to what is above stated. A gentleman
who was recommended by the Secretary of State was of courNe
inserted in the Commission, and I very lately mentioned the
name of a clergyman to be inserted in the Commission, whose
Hanle I understood would be found in the next recommenda-
tion of the Custos Rot ulorum.

" Your's, dear Sir,

.g ELDON."

" P. S. Being informed, since I wrote the above, that Mr.
C. stated that he had a personal interview with me upon the
subject, I cannot doubt the accuracy of that Gentleman's
*term:tit, though the fact has escaped my recollection."

He had mow perforated What he conceived to be
his duty, though he thought it _right, before he
eat down, to corroborate that part of Lord Suf-
field's letter, where allusion was made to himself
personally could speak with the utmost con-
fidence of the imp.trtiality which Lord Suffield
had always displayed in the exercise of his of-
ficial duties.

Mr. Coke repeated, that in consetjnence of d
declaration made to him. at Gen. Money's by Lord
Suffield, that he would insert in the commission
of the peace the names of such of his friends as
he (Mr. Coke) should recommend, he had left
• certain rta!»vs at the office of the Cle►k of the
peace for the county; and was atterwards inform-,
ed that not one of the gen 'alien whose names he
had so Lit was appointed to the Magistracy.—
Having made this application, as far as he could
recollect, upon the most gracious declaration of
Lord Suffield, he was not a little surprised at the
refusal e Bich lie experienced ; and he therefore
s►+bsetluently applied to the Lord Chancellor for
the same purpose. The Lord Chancellor advised
him to snake another application to the Lord Lieu-
tenant ; but under such circumstances as l►e had
described, every body would see that such a
pt oceeding was impossible.— (Hear ) When,
therefoi e, he came to town in the ensuing spring,
he wrote to the Lord Chancellor on the subject,
who appointee him a meeting it► his Ovate
chamber in the House of Lords, there he (:Ilr.
Coke) had never bit n before, and where lie had
•
never been since.—(l-lear ! and a kagh.)—Thr
Lord Chancellor told him, that he would turn the
subject in his mind, fur he (Lord Eldon) was fully

cenvinced that he (Nile rarku) would not recom-
mend any individual asea fit -pet sou to be appointed
a i‘legistrtre who was unworthy of :he situation.
‘Vhetleer Lotd Eldoo bad paid the Lord Lieute-
nant of the y. the compliment of communi-
cating with him on this point. he (Mr. Coke)
could not tell : but this he.knew,. that all the
persons 'Orem he recommended were within four
months inserted in the commission, except, in-
deed, one Hon. Gentleman, now a Member of
the House, whom be did not see in his place.
(Hear !)—Whet her the memory of Lord Eldon had
failed him, was not for him to determine : if it had,
so much the worse for the suitors of the Coltrt in
which his Lordship presided. But lie himself
well recollected all these points. As to the im-
partiality which Lord Suffield was said to display
in the exercise of his magisterial drolea, lie must
say that, for one, lie doubted it.—(Hear!)--He
firmly believed that several of the Magistrates had
merely been put into the commission for party
purpose's, and that several of his (Mr. Coke's)
friends had been ;ejected merely because they were
his friends.—(hear !)—This was the, kind of ine
flnetice which would be exercised in all parts of
the kingdom, if the present bill's were to pass : it
setiuld be extended not only to the Magistrates, but
to the Sheriffs in every County., He did not mean
to say that it was extended •o far at present ; by
in, memos : there had recently been a splendid'
meeting of the Freeholders of Not folk at Nor-
wich ; and too much praise conlil not be given to
his Hon. Friend the High Sheriff of the County
for his conduct on that
..occasiou.—(Hear !)—He
had there stated, that it was his firm opinion that
the tiovernment were themselves most strongly
implicated in the events at Manchester.—(Loud
toles of hear l)-1t was his opinion, end he (emid
not change ie—(Hear !)—it was his opinion,
because they set their faces against all impiiry, for
tear, he supposed, of something coming out
which would deeply implicate themselvet.—
(Clieers.)—Havieg taken Harrison in London
without a riot, they were determined to kick tip is
riot, rather than not have a reason for enacting
ieeasures like the present. He might have been
warm On this subject ; he could not help it : it
was the temperament of his nature : if he had said
any thieg offensive he was sorry for it ; but he
had only stated what had passed as accurately as
his recollaction served Linn.—(Hear !)
Another Hon. Member was rising to speak,
when lie was interrupted by
Mr. SPeAKER, who said, that before the con-
versation went any further, he could not help
pressing upon the notice of the House its irregu-
lenity, and the dangerous consequences which it
might tend to produce. He ought, perhaps, to
have stopped the Hon. Member who commenced
it, but he wee not amere of the length to which
he would go. Atter he had allowed the Hon.
Member to proceed through the whole of his
statement, it would have been an act of the
most gross injustice to have thrown any impe-
diments in the way of the Haeourable Mrtuher
who had just sat down.—(Rear, hear !)--lie
hoped that he did not presume too much in pre-
suming that the House would support him in this
call to order—(Hear,hear!)—He trusted that They
would pardon him for saying, that the conversa-
tion had already one far enough, and further
even than the vet y lexest practice allowed which
he ever recollected to have ()centred in the House.
It was not, perhaps necessary that their laws and
regulations should always be observed to the letter,
but unless the spirit of them was preserved, they
would not•be able to preserve their own ttignly,
or to promote the
.besiness of the public with that
celerity and regularity which was absolutely ne-
cessery.—(Hear, hear !)
The conversation then dropped.
• PENRYN BOROUGH.

Sir C. Bt./1111Eu, moved for leave to brig e in n
Bill to remedy corrupt practices in the Borough
of Penryn. He explained the mature of its pno.,
visions, hot in so low a-.tone..(frorn evident-Wis.
pohitioti) as to be intudible to the gallery.
Sir C. HAwKtNs delivered his Opinions in is still
more iroatreible voice.

Mr. DENNISON v*s for taking away the elec-
tive lranchise from Tenryp, Grampatool, and
B4rnstaple, and giving it to Leeds, Birmingham,
mi.(' Manchester. This, he thought, would d
Mach tO reconeilet he people, and render the new
measures unnecessary, as they would be ineffec-
tual.
.His advice respecting the people was to

" Be to their faults a little blind;
• Be to their vivtnes ever hind,
And clap a padloch on their mind."
Leave was Caen'given to bring in the Bill.
COTTON MANUFALTORIES.

Sir R. Palil after- a few remarks,. moved for
leave to bring in a, Bill to amend the Bill of last
Session for regulating Cotton Factories, and fur
the preservation of the health of young persons
employed therein. He adverted to an accident by
which a large factory (one of the cotton mills of
Mr. Owen, of New Lanark) was burnt, and ob-
served that, unless the unhappy condition of the
wo►k-people affected-by it was looked to by the
Legislature before the Ist of January,. their dis-
tress would be dreadful, and they would be turned
loose upon Society. One of the objects of the.
new Bill was to provide that they might be allow-
ed to work at night in other factories, so that
they should hot be entirely idle ; null it was im-
possible to take them on for day %yolk, as there
was no room for further hands.
.Lott) A. limstivroN seconded the niotipri, which
he hoped would be st g reed. to %without a dissentient
vote.

Mr. PHILLIPS sail, this was a proof of the
danger of legitlaring at all upon such subject!,.—
The Bill w,nt to legalize the most disgraceful
practice of night work, and yet so great was the
difficulty occasioned by the former Bill, though
not yet in -operation, that he feared it was indis-
peusibie.
Mr. BaouGHAst defended the original measure.
to supply an otnis,ion in which was the only in•
tent of the present Bill.
Mr..KI-RKNIVI FINLAY thought the former Act
full of omissions, and that there was no possibi-
lity of rfgolating subjects of this kind without en-
counter lug the most serious inconveniences. The
best remedy would be to repeal the for titer Act,
hick was found su troublesome altogtt her, even
before it was in force.

Leave Ivas given to bring in the WI.

CALLAdHAk tiOStpOild hls motion IC;AtiVe
to the 10 per Cent. Irish Protection Duties I/il
to-morrow.
A Petition was presented from the Borough
of
Sligo, for the reined,/ of certain grievances, hot!
was stated that theNemedy could ttite
tegulatlf
be had in a Court of Law.
Read, and ordered to lie on the table.
SEDITIOUS MEETINGS.
The Order of the Day for going into a Corn:
mittee on the SeditiOns Meetings Prevention 13ili
was read, on the motion of Lord Castlereagh.
On the question that the .speaker do leave the
Chair,
Mr. C. HoTctittlsotit rose, and repeated man,'
of the objections to the extension of the rneasql,
to Ireland, which he urged last night. He w 34
ready to go as far as Gentlemen wished, to pro'
tect the distmbe:l districts in Ireland; but why`
extend a measure of pains and penalties to
country which the 'Noble Lord himself bad de''
scribed as prosperous and tranquil ? He asserted
th:tt Ireland bad been loin out of Sight daring kal
the early stages of toe Bill, and thus Members in"
(laced to vote for it, who woulamot otherwisa.:
have done so, The Noble Lord durst not ltaye
offered such a.ploposition to the liish Pat liamOt.!
in its most degiinled 591 e, it to gag his countrr,
nnn when there 'was no cause for it, or no better'
Cause that, disturbances in certain Juanufeetiirit4
districts in England. By this means General Cie:
tholic Aleetiogs Would be prevented, without the,
consent of Corporations which, irons the state °'
party feelings, could not be obtained• He iterated,
the Noble-Lord's picture of the ptosperity of Ire•
land, lo no country of the world were the pea'
santry so wretched; and their nninufacture!.i.
needed, indeed, the protecting ten per cent. dill:
hid/ W 35 about to he continued to them. 6°T
depressed
.was the state of Ireland, that if Ile
other Member did, lie should thiiik it his duty,
before the end of the Session, to move for a Cour_
utittee to enquire into its distressed state.
Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that if the Hatt'
Gentlem.ir wished to exclude the operation of the
Bill from Ireland, a convenient opportunity would'
offer in the Committee. At present it wos 't! bel
abusing the patience of the House to enter
that discussion.

The [louse then resolved itself into the Con",
mittee. The Bill was ordered to be read a sewn
time, paragraph by paragraph, and the preamble
agreed to be postponed. The Chairman then pro-
ceeded to retail the firs, clause, giving a power "/,'
the Lord Lientenaot, &c. to convene meeting'.
Sir C. MONCK. proposed HS AD amendment, C(7'
leave out the wor,s Lord Lieutenant or,' on tue
grounds that a Lieutenant was a military offictri;
and that it was desirable to keep the mitharV
interfering with the Civil Authorities.
Lord CAS7LBRFtAPH defended the clause, 39 nil"
same which had been introduced in former 13i114't
and as affording one other choice to the Twill°
wishing to have a tneeting legally convened.
Mr. G. LAMB opposed it. A.Lurd Lientcoont
denying the request of the people. wohld do mac
boom than his . assent in another ease would dot
good, as Sheniffs, Grand 4orots,and 14‘i^gis(ra(0
would all plead his example as a justification Oar,
their not acting. He would even go further,
strike out the Cost(); Rotu!mum.

Sir It. HERON wits at the same opinion.
The amendment was, however, nce,atived,
the clause agreed to.
On the second Clawe, Patt.t.in wieh-41
provision to he made, hr which places like INllflar
attester tinght have meetings converted by 15(';
roughteeves and Constatil. a, 114 they did not cot"
within the dent iption of Cities, Countits,,4c.

the purview of the Bill.
LordCASTLPREAGH said the -Bill afforded:el
facility. to such Wares, anti nothing. Was tI
from them which (Ley enjoyed under lot mer
Mr. BROUGHAM thought the. Noble
of nec,.ssiiy yield a Utile on ibis point, so that gre:
and populous places, such as Manchester, Wolve"'
hanipton, and Sheffield (which were in fact ciri'!'
though not in name) might have the :same
legea with cities, borougl.s corporate, and ro`"ej
corporated, designated in the f3tll ; he acco,'
the Noble Lord and 10, law advisers of not see'ef,
to what extei,t the measure would otherwi,e.e'•
chide the people in the first Places in the conut'f;
The Learned Gentleman went on to define vvl''.!,
places would be excluded ; but amid such nail:
lions from the other side, and corrections on
cp.vii part, that we could not precisely consprelle
how far the objections applied. ‘Vliv give tt
York, Exeter, and such places, whilst it
thought necessary to.exclude Birmingbark, 1\161),;
chrster, Sheffield, &c. which .differed bum rlte
t!
only in this—that they were more populous 0.,
more important, and.had risen being
nally villages to the rani; of the first inantifact,"d
iog tows in Eogland„ whilst their more favour
rivals had been cities from the beginning
diihs
m
Mr. Wat-rnAN thought the present
to he considered as a ildruchial Bd!, and as bel;
framed solely for the purpose ot preventing Poi
dotting. Z.-ix. days' notice was revired bells
meetings c'ould 114 C place. He• would ask t‘i..
Noble Lard (Castlereagh) how it would he Prst
hie to follow him, if be were to continue to
forward Bill, tending to the sithit..rsion of the
of Rights, and to the deft knew of the Coniti":..a
•
tion,
.in the present case At'er this netur-
'
had been given, w iven, it as permitted to postpone
eO,
meeting; so that there might be another SnsP ld
site') of the Habeas Corpus Act before the Pe°llll,e
would be able to convey their Petition f,°,
Throne. It was in this light that the AV' ,oi
subversive of the Bill ot nights. Every OW.
prevention wet e thrown in the. way or
of petitioning : it had been seen whit diffiicti V
had existed even in the City of London to "icier,'
mining meeting, and the Attorlir)aGe.lieelf
might beteatter be found prosecuting indiv the
,viio had tact ttigetl,er, in cont-egin nee olligol
n-ssibility of gaining this privilege in El -
shape. f re'
Lord ComPTntv rose for the purpo9e o• rf,seirg,
hug an Amendment to the Bill in its I ,tr"
,ta.e. Hi; reason for supporting the glee:p
principle ot the Bill was, that lie tegart f 01.4
right of petition as a MOSt vabiable true:
rill t of eminent advantage to the .Consfr:frce4lic
and it was il) etortect the indecorous
exercise which had of late been made of it, tat
the
this Bill tended. order, however, ta

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" Stew art ry," ;e inserted , or t wenl y free-
-1," °llers of the co-uty, having freehold property
the value of ItAl. per annum."
Tire question was then pot by the Chairpan;
neon• , .re,
which
Mr. MAXWELL, thought, that as there was a
/11(le difference between the otfic, of Sheriff in
entland and in England, anti in other trspeos
4.there was no Grand Jury, the Lutd liiot
•
represent ma that body in Scotland, and very
til"w of the faciliiies.enjoyed England calling
ev.eriugs [ruder the restrictious of toe preset Rill,
,t ;ould he advisable to insert, a'ter the word
§tewartry," "or ten persons hoar their
14alifications are entitled to be Commissioners of
' Upon the question being pot,
CASTLEREAGH said, that the principle of
the Ressent Bill was to place meetings or large
"libels under the regulation of the Constituted
iiiithbrities. He 'conceived that either of the two
4,,.4lendrnents tin,v,peoposeit tended to defeat this
urrinciple. It was the assemblage of large ritas...es
ithe population of the country that hid drive,
the,Leeislature to contemplate the iutroduction
should obtain the responsibility of
.Constituted Authorities, as a gtnarantee for
le security of the country tinder all popular meet-
; and where, he Witold ask, was this security
be found, if any twenty freeholders of 1001. a
peat'should 'have the 'power of calling county
t ?eelings ? Wbat;plZ;dge would the country have
1 'at the ft-eel:ol4p ot
_York would not lend them-
[elves to the assembly of 100,000 men, at too.
'tots tel • ti►epeople mii-ht in a state bor-
t!. IP!
:ring or, rebellion, or unfortunately in a state of
_tbellion itself i—(llear, beer 1)—If meetings
'Vere,cOlifined to their proper parishes, they would
memselves be of sufficient security ; but he was
Ilre the Noble Lord (Compton) dul not mean to
Pi that he thought that ii periods of popular.
tipontent there would not be found in the county
York, or ally other county, t welt, y frt eholders
*1,;;
would
not be ready to put at stake toe trait •
~'tilli+y of _the county, by conntenanci(g such
14teiings. ,The Noble Lord concluded by deelar-
)llg that if either of their AmendMents were ad-
;lute(' into- the Bill, they would go to render, it
ongatory.
I‘ll. J. P. GRANT thought that in times of (lan;
.7,:r there would not be'tound twenty *Gentlernen
'lOOl. a year, freehold property, who would lend
11441`elves to call meetings which five Justices of
't Peace could not be found to Call. He believed
v
kat 1001 a year was the qualification reqoiretllot-
-4Utiontissitmer of Supplies. The Noble Lurd
I;o".4stlereagli) wished, no doubt, that there should
no meeiings but what took place under the
r)4,troj of the Law officers. 'rite Sheriff in Scot-
;Aid Was an Officer for life, chosen by the Crown,
.17d on his way tOtliO3etich.. Scotch Berroughs,
e Officeys aho govern the Corporation had no
t 14flexion withthe' people ; they elected one
4, 14"-Iler.; and he conretided, that if the petition
1
that ifouse were to d'epentlitu these offiners, it
told be next to taking away the right of petition
ait.
(!gether.
tt.Lold NottmANBY spoke against the amendment
''Posed by Lord Crinipton.
flie LORD ADVICATE of SCOTLAND declared his
11"iiuti that tlie teas folly adequate for Scot.;
tit'''. Ile appealed to the knowledgeof any Gen.
ethan in the louse,ouse, if he knew ot'any.Couvener
tf
•11:Coi;nly, who hail 'eyer,rFfusul et', calla meet-
ig "ben he Waa requiced..---(llear !)
ft, Mr• MANSFIELD was of opinion, that there
`,4441.he no occasion for thu .Bill• at all, if the
ti I"endment of Abe .Noble Lord (Compton) was
I°Pied. The respectable part of the
.conwittnity
nired to .6,,,vrunineut for strottg measures.—
ar.
clitll
I'nt'el
• 1•
LT H OEP.E ohserved, that 1001. a year was
StlPi. tent qualification fOr a Just ice of the PeaCe,
V14,1e saw ito reason why,five of them should be
iC"ed.tn preference to .five trecholders.possessiog
bt "ante qualifications.—(Cheers)
A Trott. e: -GENERAL
7-''.!it distinction between a Freeholder of 1001:
itiYear anti a Magistraie j the former could not ask
ihat simple stialifintion to be put in the Com-
ZlatiOn of the Peace, With respect to the Amend-
ttit before the-House, he declared that it struck
Viectly at the principle of the Bill : and if the
11,t'use agreed to it, kt .might as well not pass the

KENNUDY Ob3C,Xveri, that there was no
ttlslos:Rolulotum in
.Scotland, and that the Lord
Berton
being military Offl r was not the
ce ,
iserloo on whom the-people couldarely with confi-
der,
t ee for calling meetings of the Count': to dis-
:4 grievances. The functions of the Sheriff, in
titin`gtluence', preserved_ a distinct litre ; he was
lie supreme judge in-all civil and criminal cases
N
Nttever ant' naturally looked to the Crown for,
il 'W
iitem • •
'ilon in ins profession. The Con,%!ener did
filen:call County Meet iugsubut it was front prac-
Nfei hot .hy.authority. of
.the law. He coincided
vlth Iris Hon. Friend in thinking that persons
4461i4ed to be Commissioners of Supplies in 'Scot-
,. LI, ought to have power of convttiting meetings.
DENMAN, in reply to what'hal fallen front
•11:11014 and Learned Friend, the Attorney-Ge-
-41, wept through a ttain of arguments, to
•rto,
itit,t that the Bill ought to be considered as an-
--elibi•lngement on the rights and liberties of the
eet, rather than a protection to them.
4(1 BaNyoti spoke against the amendment.—
was not true that the_ Sheriffs of Counties in
41,.°,tialltd, were always looking to the Crown for
ieratent ; and even supposing they were. he
tro n°t see how !fiat should incapacirate diem
Z'hm-the honest discharge of their other duties.—
,s)f j yonvener was elected h the Commissioners
4PPIy, who represented the whoie property of
.14,e6httly. He did not think that five iklagis-
qi‘eB could ever be found, who shon.ld be such
litives of the Crown, that they could'not he
Ad.lited to call a meeting. He hoped those who
tyhil c't wish to see ikll popular meetings of that
tbeVlitimis de,crintiOn which had of late threat-
s;lt th • so much danger to the Country, would re•
e A
to umenuent.
rf• EznyNOToN asserted, that there was no
144•4'l Then in the country that (elt a stronger
erect ifs welt,:re than that whirls was pus-
-41 "f fteehnlrl property to the of 1001..
4411 hat. The present Bill %tent to tcbtrain till

meetings 'licit vvi)3t took place in parishes. If it
was the object of tte Noble Lord opposite to oh
rain a reinnisi!,ile secolity tor. all Coincv
he, would t,ot o"Jject to the present Amend.
meta. It it was his ohject to pot down all Meet-
it4;s, anti to cotice the people for that purpose,
he Would object to ;t.
Lori.) CAhTLEHEAGII-". I said, last night, that
no tnee,ings which took place tinder cover would
toncheo by this Bill ; all weetings, consequent-
ly, in Town-11111s, and the like places, will
con;inne to be carried on withotit any "restric-
tion."

After a desultory conversation, in which Sir
U. Heron, Mr. Bathurst, and Loud Milton, took
part,
Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) declared, that if the
amendmeot Was pt-ts,eu, lie wot,ld innierdimelv
apply for leave to Eel,' n Cr) Ireland.—(A laugh )-
11e thought it vet y I;kely that twenty person, of
the description proposed by the Noble Lnrd
might be disposed to call a meeting for a very
improptr purpose. He would,appeal to the Com-
mittre, whether the sense of a county might nor
be better taken in small sections than by assent-
blioglarge meetings. He protested against such
meetings as the Noble Lord proposed to call by
his 20 freeholders, at which no' per;un would he
alrile to make himself' teard by his lungs, or
in any other Manner titan by banners and flags.—
(A
Sir C. MoNcx suggested that it might he a
pr,ter4hie mode it his'Noble Friend (Lord
Connp-
Ion) sl.nerld propose that the signareoet or twenty
freeholders of 1001. a year sh9uld be considered
competent to in,rke a req iisition for a County
Meeting instead of being competent to call the
Meting,

Atter some further conversation,
Lord •'ComPToN consented to the alteration
propose() by his honourable Friend, in all cases,
except for the countits of York, Lancashire, and
other large counties, where a greater number of
requisitionists should be deemed necessary.
Lord CASTLEREAGH Said, if he rightly under-
stood his Noble Friend opposite, he now made
thtee propositions to the Committee. For his
part, it he (Lord Compton) did not wish to ren-
der the Bill mr.-story. he should recommend
to abandon all three.—(Hear,)
After some further conversat ion, in which Lords
Compton, Castlereagh, Hemikon, and Folkestone,
Sir C. Mona, the Lord Advncaie, Mr'. J. P.
Grant, the Attorney-General, and Mr Brongham,
took a part, in the course of which it was agreed
to make certain alterations in the clauses with
respect to Scotland, so as to authOrke Lord Lieu•
tenants and Magistrates in any part of that county,
to call public meetings ; the C,Tnnittee divided
upon the proposition, that ten Commissioners of
Supply should be authorised to call a County
Meeting.'

For. the Amendment, - 81
Against it, stil
Majority • -180
When strangers- were,atitnittell,

Lord COMPTON withdrew his Amendment.
Mr. Alderman Worm was. of opinion, that, as
the Bill now stood, not more than three or toot,
Wards of the City of. London could hold public
meetings at all. -He Moved, as an Amendment,
that there *shonld he added to the clause', after the
word f, A14E111611," the words. 't or three of .the
Common Council of suet] Ward or .Division."
Lord CASTLEREAGH could see no gtonn'l for the
Amendment Moved by the Worthy Ali!erman
Meetings In the City of London could be called
by the Aldermen, by the Magistrates-:„,and.hy. the
Lord ;Mayor generally, and by others, provided
they were held inrooms. If tin room could be
found sufficiently spacious for the purpose in the
city. he could recommend them to a !thee in his
neidtbour.hood— Willis's Honors where they
could hold their Meetings, and which, he thought,
Win:l-afford' every req.iisite accommodation The
Amemhneut miist object ,being directly
opposO to the:ptinciple of the Brll.
Mr. Alderman Moan defended Ws Amendment
as bleing absolutely necessary. Without, he would
venture to: soy, that not moret ban three or tour
of the Cisr Wards would be able to nkeet at all.
But this w, s perhaps the object of the Noble Lord.
Mr. Alder Mart WAITHMAN supported the
amendment, but agreed with • the Noble Lord,
that the present amendment was directly against
the principle of the.liill,
.for the ptinciple of the
Bill he held to be hostile to all public meetings.
Sir W. CURTIS objected to the -amendment.
It went to imply a distrust of,t he Aldermen of the
Wards, who knew, and who, he was confident,
would ever be found ready, to perform their duty.
Mr. Alderman :Noon said, the necessity of the
amendment was proved by the tact, that the Al.
of the Wards had refused to call six or
seven
.meetings it the course of the last month—
he.nreant meetings of the whole of the inhabitants,
and not of any particular body. Ministets might
gain the ques:tion, but they should Hot do so with-
ont.a,division, for he gave then' his honour he
would not See the privileges of the City sacrificed
without taking the sense-of the House on the
clause..

Mr. WAITHMAN again spoke, but was opposed
by calls tor the question. He s.tid he was not
dismayed' by the noise which prevailed he was
pretty well used to it.—(A laugh.)—He did not
know that he troubled that House very much or
very tiften, but he had a duty to perform, and per-
form it he would, and he doubted not but be
should rise with the difficnlties that might be
thrown in his ray.—(A laugh.)—He then de-
fended the amendment, but did not wish the
House to be divided on it, as•be saw no chance of
success.

The. Gallery was ordered to be cleared, but in
compliance with a loud cry of " Read, read," the
Worthy Alderman did not press the question to a
division, and the amendment was negatived.
Mr. Alderman Woon moved, that after the
words " Corporate Body," the words " or Li-
berty of London," should be added to the clause.
On this motion, he thought it his duty to take the
sensed the Committee, anti should certainly press
It to a division.

The SoLicyror.-GENERAt. showed the Amend-
ment %vas unnecessary; and, after a few words
from Mr. WAITHMAN and Sir W. CURTIS, it was
negatived without a division.
Lotd CASTLEREAGH Withdrew die Clause ex-

repting trade meeting it from the operation of this
Bill. Individuals might be '.r-d to attend such
meetings, which might atterevards be turned by
-the Radical: into Reform meetings, and thus
those who We: re peaceably dc.posed, might be in
a Manner entrapped into .that which was illegal.
.A case in point had been stated on the precediu2
night. At a place in Scotland, where the cotton
manufactiirers had as,embled to consider of a
question nt great importance to them—one affect-
ing wages, its character bad been changed in
!he way be had supposed 11141 this might he done,
int! the parties had separated with Resolutions in
favour of Pailiamentary Reform, liniver,al
aee, Elcci ions by lldint. Withdrawing this
clause, it was his intention, when the Bill had
passed through a Committee, to bring up ;mother
clause to regulate trade weetiogs.
Mr. J. Pi GRANT thought it would be conve-
tlicco for the Ittose to know what it was the in-
tention of the Noble Lord to move.
Lord CAsTLEREAGu read the clause he had an-
nounced. which went 10 except Ach meetings
trom i lie operations of the Bill, if held in a room
or covered building.

Hf~er a shots conversation between Mr.
MAitIIYATT and Lord CASTLISREMPA, the - clause
was wit tuba wn.

Several retbal Amendments were moved, which,
after some-diseu,sion, were negatived.
On the clause regulating tlie at tt ntlaime at pub-
lic Meetings,

Lord CASTLERRAGIT moved an Amendment. He
tho,,ght it desirable that no person not resident
in a parish should attend a parochial meeting, un-
less it were a matter of some notoriety thist Elie
par!y was a Freeholder. If some provision weir
not made on this head, any stranger might evade
the Is by saying that lie was a Ireeholder. To
guard against such an occurrence, he proposed an
amendment, which only gave trveholders a tight
to be present at the Meetings in Parishes where
they did not reside, who possessed freehold pro-
perty of the annual value of 50/.

Sir 11. FgaoussoN called the attention of the
House to the statement that had been referred to
by the Noble Lord (Lord Castlereagh), respect-
iog a meeting to consider of the rate of wages,
at which it- had been said a few radicals had
changed the whole of the proceedings, by intro-
ducing the question of Parliamentary Reform.—
Tile statement was totally without loaplation.
At the meeting in the county of Fife, consisting
of from 8 to 10,000 persoos, there were not more
than 450 radiAAs present, and there were persons
who merely called for the Reform planned by
Major Cartwright, and who, he believed to he
innocent of all crime against the State. The
people in that part of the country hart conducted
themselves with the greatest propriety, though
their distress was sevete, as a man who molted
15 hours in the day could earn but the miserable
stipend of half-a-crown a•week.
Mr. WYNNE wished that some provision should
be introduced into the clause, to declare that
householders should not he allowed to attend
meetings of freeholders, or county meetings which
were generally composed of such. For a house.
holdet was •as much a stranger to all assembly of
freeholders as an inhabitant of London would be
at a meeting at York.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL contended, that it had
been the general practice to allow householders
to attend meetings of fteeholders; it was intended
to oraintaits the law on that footing, and the Chose
ha' been so worded for the purpose of avoiding
the inference acid conclusion drawn by the Hon.
Gentleman.
After a few words from Mr. Primrose, Air.
Honeywood, and Lord Castlereagh, the proposi•
tion to exclude householders was understood to
be abandoned.

Mr. GRAHAM inquired whether the former Re-
presentative of any place of which he was not a
freeman would have any tight to attelid a meeting
at that place, to give an account of his confine( to
those who. had been his constituents lie had the
honour of representing the Coun,y 'and Town of
Hull, of which he was not a freeman, and he
thought it would be rasher harsh,
.if, at the end
of tie present Parliament, he should not be per-
mitted to attend a meeting of his constituents.
Lord CASTLERKAGH said, that an exception was
already made respect to meetings for election
purposes, and he had no objection to take out of
the operation of the Bill all tneetin,;s of voters
which might occur between the issuing of the
Speaker's Writ and. the return of a 'Member...

Mr. BROUGHAM contended, that this would not
remove the objection staled by his Honourable
Ffiend, and pledged himself to prove what I c
now advanced, when that part of thtsßill shotilti
be before the

Mr. WILLIAms proposed an Amendment, tend-
ing to allow persons who had the rig-ht of voting
for the election of a Member in Parliament, al-
though non-residents, to attend the meetings
held at the place for which they were entitled to
vote.

The Gallery was cleared, but we understood
the amendment to have been negatived, and the
original clause agreed to without a diiiision.
On being re-admitted, w: found
Lord CASTLEREAGH arguing against an amend-
ment looposed by Lord Althorp during Our ab-.
sence, to the clatve declaring the attendance of
stran,vets to meetings a misdemeanor. The
amendment, as far as we could collect from the
observations of the Noble Lord, tended to make
it• a misdemeanor for a stranger to address, but
not to attend a meeting.

r. MalutvATT conceived the clause to he really
harsh, and expressed his intention to vote for the
amendment.

Mr. lioatNsoN contended, that if the clause was
not adopted as it now stood, the whole object
ot the Bill would he defeated, and masses ot stran-
gers might continue to poor into parish meetings.
Mr. Paniaoss strongly supported the Amend-
ment.

Mr. BATHURST asked, to what purpose the
House ll3cl been reguhting the deseliption of per-
sons who should be ;illowed to assemble, if meet-
ings were to be thrown open to the admiv.sion of
all strangers, by the adoption of the Noble Lord's
amendment ?

Lord FoLREsTONE stipporteri the amendment.
Mr. BRouGHANt maintained that if the %choir of
he present clause were struck out, the objects 91

tire Bill would he as efrectually carried by enother
pr ovisioo, which authot ised Magiet races to re-
moie Strangers from reeeciugs held roofer their
jeriscliction. The effect of his. Noble Friend's
Amendment would be, that r rangers %tumid
not be liable to fine or impriwoment tor
t,vo years, unless they eddressed the meeting.—
But whether they spoke or nor, the Magistrates
would retain the power of making a Proclamation,
and enfot ring their removal. He contended that
the present repletion; would prevent the ',tiered'.
itigs of those great, importaet, and frequently
beneficed ureetiues fro e Leine faithfully reperted.
!I would thus deprive the country of an advantage
which it twee possessed, mot which the Noble Lord
must well kilo,' how to appreciate. He was aware
I hat the Hon. aed Learned Gentleman opposite
thoeght 414:o-rut ly. That Hon. and Learned
Gentler:l co considered these Reporters who'
,are their health, their time, and their talents,
to a difficult eertiee, too far beneath hint to de-
select his notice. He therefore treated them.
with the greatest contempt ; and were it tint for
that free Constitution, w bleb he now attempted
to settee, rr, it would not be difficult to know
where Ice would send them. It was their dote, to
attend 41 public meetings; as it was the duty of
the Hon. aod Learned Gentlemen himself to at-
tend iii the Courts of Justice. But the /Icor and
Learned Gem lemon moved in too elevated a sphere
ro know any thing of the 111:1111Itr in which report-
ing was conductrd. As ire (Mr. Brougham) oc-
cupied a less lofty situation, he was better ac-
quainted with the subject, and could say that tea
meritorious end laudable iodividuels who etc egtel
ill that profession could not conic under the deno-
mination of those classes to which public meetings
were left open. There could not be freeholders,
housekeepers, nor inheritors in every place where
such essem blies were held; and wit tient them,
those meetings held to inflame the loyalty of the
county, to rouse its patriotism against an invad-
ing enemy, and to answer the most beneficial
purposes, would be reduced to a state of total
inefficiency. He did not lay this exclusion to the
charge of the Noble Lord, for be thought
that Noble Lord's attention had been entire-
ly taken up with the idea of effectually pre-
eenti g the attendance of Hunt, and such itine-
rant orators. But if the Amendment of his Noble
niend was trot carried, the only Reporters of
those Debates would he the Lord Lieutenant of
the County, a personage not very likely to know
short-hand—(A laugh)—rte Custos Rotulorum, the
High Sheriff, or the Fi ethoidet s themselves.
Nay, it the Amendment proposed by his Hon.
Friend, the Member for Montgomeryshire (Mr.
Wynne) were carried, there would not be a sin-
gle human being to attend those meetings, except
freeholders, yeomen, and seine country gentle-
men. Would it then he expected that a tolerable
report would be given to the Country %--(I tar,
hear !)
The ATToRNBY•GeNERAL observed, that after
the most unprovoked attack---(Loud cries of heel,
hear !)—he repeated, after the most unprovoked
and undeserved attack which had been made upon
him—en attack which he had not tittered a single
syllable to deserve, he telt it necessary to trespass
upon the House for a few moments. It was said
that he entertained contempt for !het body of
prisons called Reporters, What had he said
contemptuous of them? What bad lie said of
them at all ? He had never spoken of them dur-
ing the night He had attended to his Honour-
able and Learned Friend, as he was bound to do,
in order to obviate his objections to the clause,
but he declared that in supporting that clause he
had no view ; he had never given any opinion
that any set of persons should be excluded, ex-
cept by the general provisions of the Act.—(Hear,
hear ! from the Opposition.)—The Right Hon.
Gentleman, after some observations in answer to .
some arguments urged against the clause, begged
the House to excuse his U'airnth on this occasion ;
the attack matte upon bins necessarily made hint
feel warm. The object of that attack was with a
view to render hire obnoxious to a respectable
class of pet sons, against whom be had never tit-
tercel a syllable, bet with whom be could not ex-
pect to stand on the same terms as his Hon. and
Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham). !laving said
so much, he now came track to the Amendment.
It would, if carried into effect, go to destroy the
enecstneuts of the Bill. The object of the Bill
was to prevent tutuultuary meetings ; the clause
necessarily event to authorise such meetings.
• Air. BROUGHAM stated in explanation, that when
he had first mentioned Reporters, he bad nmiced
what he thought to be a cheer, or a gesture of
'contempt on the part of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman—(Cries of No, no!)—Tice Hon. Mem-
bers wino sat behind the Hon. aud Learned Gen-
tleman, and therefore coul4 not possibly see his
countenance, must allow hint to state what he
conceived he had seen and
_what formed his excuse
for the expressions which lie had used. He had
also heard the Hon. and Learned Gentleman say
something like " 'tis all about Reporters."
'fire ATtnitNEY•GeNtlitAL was not conscious of
having uttered a cheer. He had certainly turned
to his lion. and Learned Friend (the Solicitor-
General), but it was with a reference to the argu-
ment of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, tool
not to the respectable body of individuals whom
it was attempted to make it appear be had wishes!
to calumniate.—(Hear !)
The Soeictrott-Geetter. stated, that the ex-
pression navel by his Ilooonrable and Learned
Friend was, " why; it will have the effect of ex-
cluding the Reporters." But lie had not cheered.
The Honourable and Learned Gentleman should
select better grounds before he ventured to make
such attacks.--(!fear, hear, heat !)
Mr. DENMAN should he sorry to mix himself
tip in personal diseussioes. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman contended, that. it Would be
advantageous to withdraw the Clause.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he IVES ready to bear
Itestimony that nothing passed Irons his Right
Honourable Friend, that could instity the- ob-
servations of the Honourable and Learned Ci.,,,.11,
Odium. If any thing passed wi h respect to
Reporters, he was the person front whom it isro-
eeeded, but nothing of disrespect ; for those
individuals had escaped hini.—He felt respect
ter them. It was natural for the Honottra-
ble and Learned Gentleman to contend that Ite.
porters should be enabled to attend 0 eetings, but