The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-14 00:00:00

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Was it not an alarming fact that such large ships had been '
built at such an enormous cost, and such large sums of money
squandered at a time, while it was stated by the Gallant
Officer, they were not fit to encounter the" raging sea?" Was
it not monstrous that they should have proceeded in this way for
so long a period ? Something, he admitted,
was
s do
Hise, but
they had gone indeed but a small way in the right road.
Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) alluded
to the aid of science in such a service as the navy,
and he regretted that the school of naval architecture,
which was so well calculated to educate persons for that parti-
cular purpose, had been destroyed. They had now no such
school while hey were to be found throughout the Continent.
Considering. how the country was situated, he was of opinion,
as one of the public as well as a Member of that House, that
hat there ought to be a searching inquiry into the state of
the navy, and that there should be a close investigation,
which he thought could be best made by a Royal Commis-
sion, composed of experienced persons, for the discharge of
whose duties the Executive Government would be responsible.
He should therefore advise his Hon. and Gallant Friend
to withdraw his motion, because he was afraid if he pursued it
to a division many persons would be placed in an unfavour-
able light out of doors, who, though they were of opinion that
the inquiry was necessary, might yet vote against the motion
of his Hon. and Gallant Friend, because, if carried, it would
lead to no practical result. He might then give notice of a
motion for an address to the Crown, to appoint a Commission
for the purpose intended by the motion now before the House.
Sir CHARLES NAPIER replied he had often heard the
remark that such and such a person was good in debate, but he
had never heard that a good debater had recourse to perverting
the language of persons who spoke before him, and he had no
hesitation in saying that the Hon. Member for Halifax had
most completely perverted his language. The Hon. Gentleman
said that he had condemned every class of ships built by other
builders except the large class of three-deckers and the eigh-
teen-gun brigs. Now he most distinctly denied that. He said
that all the three-decked ships except the ninety-eights and the
nineties were good, that all the seventy-fours, the eighty-fours,
and the eighties, were good, and even down to the sixty-fours,
with the exception of the " forty-thieves ;" that the thirty-twos
and twenty-twos were also good, but that the twenty-eight-
gun donkeys, and the ten-gun brigs were good for no•
thing. He was, therefore, surprised that the Hon. Gentleman
put words into his mouth which he had never used. The Gal-
lant Officer at the head of the Admiralty had also 7nisunder-
stood him. He seemed to think that he was of opinion that the
forty-thieves were in good condition,and that they ought not to
have beer, cut down. Now he was just of the contrary opinion,
for he thought the Gallant Officer had a perfect right to cut
them down. The Gallant Officer had said that he had opened
competition ; now he (Sir Charles Napier) must beg
to differ with him upon that point, for he was
satisfied that if the navy had been thrown open to
public competition some years ago, hundreds and hundreds of
thousands of pounds would have been saved to the country.
He considered that the Gallant Officer had so many duties
now thrown upon him, that he would not be able to perform
them all if he were cut in a dozen pieces. The Queen's yacht
was a most imperfect vessel ; it could not he steered to
within four or five points; and during the time her Majesty
was on beard, she was not allowed to go more than six
knots an hour; she was in fact, at the present moment, under-
going the same operations that the vessel called the Queen
had undergone. There was not a single steam-boat in the
possession of the Government that was worthy of the navy.
He hoped they would come to a good steam-navy at last. The
Gallant Offic-r opposite appeared to think that he was rather
severe ripen him ; he could assure him that he did not intend
to be so. He would not trouble the House further, but he
felt bound to say that unless the Government would cause some
inquiry to be made on the subject, he must divide the House-
upon his motion.
Mr. C. WOOD could assure the Hon. and Gallant Officer
that it was not his intention to pervert the meaning of any-
thing he had stated.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—

For the motion
Against it ...

Majority against the motion
Mr. CHARLES HOPE obtained leave to bring in a Bill
for enabling the Commissioners of Greenwich Hospital to im-
prove a certain lane or street called Fisher-lane, in the parish
of Greenwich, in the count' of Kent, and for other purposes.
Mr. CHARLES HOPE also moved for leave to bring in a
Bill for enabling the Commissioners of Greenwich Hospital to
grant leases of coals and minerals for forty-two }ears, and for
making a railway or tram-road from Greenwich colliery to
Berwick-bridge.

Mr. HUME objected to the Bill.
Mr. HODSON HINDE entertained great objections to the
Bill. He was sure if its provisions were known and appre-
ciated it would never be brought forward. It was well known
that Greenwich Hospital held large estates in the north of
England, one of which, near Berwick-upon-Tweed, had under
it some valuable seams of coals. These mines had been worked
at a considerable loss, but if a better communication could be
obtained between those mines and the:port of London, that which
had hitherto been a losing speculation would become a most
profitable one. He had no objection to the parties obtaining
the best access to a shipping place, but they were not entitled
to come to that House and call upon it to grant
them powers to make a railway, not for public
purposes, but for the interest of private individuals.
If he was correctly informed, every individual landowner
along the line was opposed to it ; the lords of the manor, the
Corporation of Berwick, and the Harbour Commissioners
were opposed to it, as injurious to the trade of the port. The
compulsory powers sought by this Bill would enable the House
to lay down this railway along the side of a public highway for
a considerable distance. He did not think that the Commis-
sioners of the Hospital themselves were quite aware of the na-
ture of the Bill ; too much power and influence in such
matters was often given to solicitors and others connected with
such institutions. He was confident that if the Government
had been informed of the nature of the Bill it would never
have been brought forward, and he trusted the statements
against it would be inquired into by the Board of Trade.
Having made these observations he should not think it his
duty to take the sense of the House on the question.
Mr. FOSTER quite agreed with the observations of the
Hon. Member opposite. He was sure that if the measure had
been investigated it would never have been brought forward.
Ile should like to know what would be the course pursued with
sespect to the present Bill ?
The SPEAKER said that it would be referred to the Com-
mittee on Private Bills, to see that all the standing orders had
been complied with. If that had been done, then the measure
would be proceeded with precisely like any other private Bill;
no advantage whatever was gained by the manner in which the
Bill was now introduced.
Mr. FOSTER said, with the understanding that the
Bill was to be referred to a Committee and undergo a full in.
vestigation he should be perfectly satisfied. But when in-
quired into it would be found that the objections to the measure
were perfectly just.
Mr. LIDDELL also agreed in the remarks that bad been
made against the Bill. It was an invasion of private rights,
and he could not understand why a pnblic body like Greenwich
Hospital should be allowed to carry a compulsory railway
through private property (not for a public line, but one which
the public could not use) of a district where mining had been
carried on for the last three hundred years, without the usual
understanding with the proprietors of the land. He should
oppose the second reading, unless he saw much stronger reasons
for the measure than he did at present.
Mr. HODGSON said it would be better if the Hon.
Member who introduced the Bill would withdraw it at once ;
it would save the House the trouble of throwing it out on the
second reading, which would undoubtedly be done.
Mr. BROTHERTON said the opposition to this Bill was
one of the most extraordinary he had ever heard of. The
speech of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, against the measure,
had persuaded him that it ought to be introduced. He sus-
pected that there was some private interest at work behind,
Against the measure.
Mr. FOSTER declared that he had no private interest in
the matter.

Mr. COLLETT said the Bill was also to empower the Com-
missioners to let their mines for a term of forty-two years.
Nor was it meant that the Bill was to give the lessees of the
Hospital the power of making the railway, or to the Corn.
misconers.

Mr. C. HOPE was understood to say, to the Commis-
'inners' undoubtedly.
Mr. COLLETT said, from the wording of the motion, it
appeared to be the lessees.
Mr. C. HOPE explained, that the opposition of the Corpo-
ration of Berwick only extended to carrying the railway be-
yond a certain point ; they did not oppose it to a certain extent.
Leave was given to bring in the Bill.
EMIGRATION TO TRINIDAD.
Mr. THORN ELY moved for a copy of the correspondence
between Dr. Rolph and the Colonial Secretary, and between
the Colonial Secretary and the Governor of Trinidad, relative
to the appointment and remuneration of Dr. Rolph, in 1843,
as the agent of the Government of Trinidad, for the removal
of the coloured population of Canada to that colony.
Mr. G. W. HOPE said that Dr. Rolph was engaged by
the Governor of Trinidad to conduct the emigration, but no
benefit was derived from his undertaking ; and no emigrants
were bound by it. The salary he was to receive was 2001. a-
rear, and the only question was, whether, as Dr. Ralph had
returned from Canada earlier than was anticipated, he was
entitled to 1001. or 2001. ?
Mr. HUME asked what was the date of Dr. Rolph's appoint-
sent?
Mr. G. W. HOPE said it was from the beginning of 1843,
but Dr. Rolph, subsequent to that time, became connected
with the North American Land Association, which became
bankrupt, and Dr. Relph did net return to Canada till his time
bad expired. The whole question was, whether he was to get
1001. to which he was not entitled.
Mr. HUME—He has got too much.—( Laughter.)
The return wai then agreed to.
The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to bring in a
Bill for the appointment and payment of constables and officers
for keeping the peace near public works in Scotland.
On the motion of Mr. CARDWELL, the following Mem-
bers were appointed a Select Committee, to assist the Speaker
in all matters which relate to the printing executed by order of
this House, and for the purpose of selecting and arranging for
printing returns and papers presented in pursuance of motions
made by Members of this House, which may be referred to
the, said Committee :—Sir George Clerk, Sir Robert Harry
Inglis, Mr. Pusey, Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr. Strutt, Viscount
Mahon, Mr. Tufnell, Mr. Patrick Stewart, and Mr. Hume.
Three to be the quorum.
Mr. GREENE. brought up the report from the Committee
of Supply, which was ordered to lie upon the table.
FINANCIAL STATEMENT.

Mr. fitiMEvished to put a question to the Bight Hon.
Baronet. He wished to know at what hour on tomorrow the
financial statement would be made ?

Sir J. G RA HANI said the public business would commence
at half-past four at which hour the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of herliollulajesty's Government would lay his statement
before the.
ARirAI.Ly.AYeC.CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION BILL.'
. asiLIONBY hoped that the Railway _Clauses Conso-
lidation But would
not
There were sevebreallie,l
clau be
ses
before the House that night.
in the Bill to which he intended to
object,. and he
many of his Hon. Friends on that
(the Opposition) side theHejthou House entertained a similar opi-
nion of its merits.thought that a Bill of this importance
ought to be referred to a Select Committee up stairs.
Lord G. SOMERSET was anxious that the business
of the House should be proceeeddiedntionot
wish to take any Hon. with as quickly as possible ;
but, on the other hand, h
Member by surprise. The clauses in the Bill, he begged to
state, were not new clauses, for they had all been taken from
existing Acts, althoagh modified in a very considerable degree;
and he thought, therefore, that but little opposition would be
he could
given to the measure. Under these circumstance,
not think of postponing the consideration of thes
After some further remarks from Mr. AGLIOq:RtY, as to
the propriety of delaying its consideration,
The House then resolved itself into Committee.
On clause I being put,
Mr. HAWES inquired if these clauses were to be com-
pulsory on all companies, and whether they would apply neces-
earily to all future railways ?
Lord G. SOMERSET said they were not to be compul-
awry on all Companies. They would not necessarily apply to all
future railway companies applying. for Bills.
Mr. HAWES thought the Bill would be useless unless it
could be made compulsory.
Mr. WAKLEY was of the same opinion as the Hon. Mem-
ber for Cockermouth (Mr. Aglionby), that this Bill ought to
lb' referred to a Select Committee up stairs. This Bill was
entangled to be a model Bill, and it ought to be made perfect,
pall then couipallory on ill companiet.