The Sun.
London, England, 1821-04-17 00:00:00

Trinidad rather. than. St. Vincerits. The Noble Lord iritcrided
to dispose of it to the hest advantage.
Mr. J. P. GRANT :mid ft few words upon the subject, and
the House divided—
' • For the postponement -
Against it e - 109
Majority - - - -
A second division of course took place on Colo: el Davies's
Amendraent—The Numbers were-a-
Forthe Amendment - - - f.B
• Against it - - - - - 110
Majority - - —52
Mr. PROGDEN then moved a Resolution for granting
£170,000 to defray the expence of Volunteer Corps in Great
Britain.
Sir W. DE CR:ESPIGNY expressed himself at a loss to
know why the Volunteer Yeomanry were increased in the
county of iiouthanapton. •
Lord MILTON said, it was necessary to inform the Com-
mittee where the increase of Volunteer comanry had occurred.
Mr. F. PALMER said, he was desirous ofknowing why the
Yeomanry. Cavalry had been increased in Bedford ?
Mr. BROUGHAM asked a similar question with respect to
the Yeomanry of Westmorland.
Mr. HUMEeobeerved, that there had been a gradual in-
crease since 1916 in the expence incurred by that description of
force. The revenue lost £lOO,OOO per annum by the vast num-
bers in the Volunteer Cavalry, as they paid no tax.
Lord PALMERSTON recalled to the recollection of Gen-
tlemen, that last year the greater part of these corps were en-
gaged in the preservation of the public peaee.—(Hear, how !)
—lt was too much to turn upon the Government, for cn a force which might be considered the most constitutional,
for the preservation of valuable lives and property. It was said
those corps of volunteers were increased in particular districts
where they were not wanted. In many of the manufacturing
districts it was found impossible to raise Volunteer Corps. Per-
sons were not willing to expose themselves to the unpleasant
duty thehad occasionally to discharge. LordMILTON explained.
Sir ROBERT WILSON said it was necessary to protect
the peace of the country ; but he disapproved of perseverance in
the employment of Volunteers. That system, if persevered in,
would save made rebellion an act of duty.—(Considerable mur-
murs, and cry of order !)—By increasing the military force of
the country, taxation was increased.
Mr. HUME said, the unfortunate events of Scotland and
other places which required military force were occasioned by
• the late proceedings of Franklin. The very placard which
caused the disturbance at Glasgow was written in London by
that individual; The Hon. Member here insinuated that his
Majest's Government had some knowledge of that person.
Mr.BATHURST staid it was impossible for any Member of
the Administration to befsilent when they heard acts of treason
in Scotland charged as the act of his Majesty's Government.—
The Honourable Member. had brought forward a charge for
which there was not the slightest foundation. It was a gross
calumny. It was too much, at the same time, for any reason-
able person to credit. • The Members of Government knew no-
thing of that man Franklin. The Hon. Member, should be
more guarded, and abstain from making charges until he could
support them by proof. With respect to other charges made
by a gallant General, was it to be said, that because a taxation
pressed on men they were bound in duty to rebel ?—(Cry of
No, no!)
Mr. HUME, in explanation, adverted to the facts which
transpired with respect to Franklin, and contended that his
escape had been connived at.
Mr. BATHURST again defended his Majesty's Govern-
ment. The Honourable Member had nothing bpt suspicions
to support his charges. He might ask, whether any individual,
standing in the situation of Minister, Secretary of State for the
Home Department, could be capable of keeping Franklin or
any other person in wealth for the purpose of making him the
instrument to excite the people to rebellion ? It was almost
insanity to entertain for one moment such an idea.
Lord MILTON said the Government had connection with
Oliver, if not with Franklin.
Mr. BATHURST observed, that all he knew about Oliver
• was, that he was employed to discover disaffected persons ; but
what had Oliver to do with Franklin ? There was no connec-
tion with respect to those names.
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND saki, it was the
first time he had ever heard the Government charged with the
acts of Glasgow. He appealed to the Hon. Gentleman who
appeared as Counsel for the persons implicated, whether he ever
heard the least insinuation against Government ? With respect
to the placard, he could say, on the best authority, it was writ-
ten at Glasgow and printed at Glasgow.
Sir ROBERT M'ILSON explained, and justified his ex-
pression upon the language of the Bill of Rights. •
Mr. MONTEITH stated, that they found the printers and
types with which the placard at Glasgow -was printed. No
Ministers could send persons down to excite disturbance in the
manufacturing districts.
• Mr. BROUGHAM said, none could be so ridiculous as to
suppose Ministers had excited riots. The connection of Go.
vernment with Franklin was not proved, but circumstances of
suspicion existed. It could not be denied that Oliver and Ed-
wards had been used as spies by the GovernMent.
Mr. W. POLE said, the insinuations of the Hon. Gentleman
had been woven by the legal ingenuity of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman into direct charges, which never should have come
before the House without due notice. The Member for Aber-
deen had made a charge against the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, which, if well founded, ought to be the
subject of impeachment. But the charge was made only on
suspicion. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman did not mean
to insinuate that Franklin:was employed by the Noble Secretary.
If-any one had made that charge in direct terms, he should say
it was false and scandalous. It was disingenuous to insinuate
that-the Government had been guilty of such conduct, when
common sense and the knowledge of the parties brought a
conviction of the contrary being the fact.
Mr. BROUGHAM then complained of a scandalous charge
made against him by the Right Honourable Gentleman. This
was said in so loud a tone, and with so much vehemence, that
considerable agitation ensued. There was a ,general cry
of—
" Chair, Chair !" " Adjourn, Adjourn !" •
Mr. ROBINSON then said he had interrupted the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman, supposing that some misunderstanding
had occurred which might be coolly explained: •
Mr. TIERNpY expressed a hope that good temper might
be restored, and misunderstanding removed.
Mr. W. POLE said, he should be sorry to state any thing in
the warmth of debate indecorous. He was not. aware that he
had said any thing the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
could consider a charge.
Mr. BROUGHAM stated that no man was more unwilling
than himself to be captious. •He had only to say, with- respect
to the view he had taken of the Right HonourableGentleman's
words, that he was not a man to insinuate that his Majesty's
Ministers were exciting treason, and knew at the same time
thai the charge was false. - -
Mr. W. POLE explained. •
The. Resolution was then agreed to.
Mr. BENNET next proposed the Chairman to report. pro-
gress, and ask leave to sit again.•
Lord PALMERSTON stated, that delay in the discussion of
the Army Estimates had occasioned considerable inconvenience.
The Half Pay and the Widows'. Pensions could not be paid,
He wished, therefore, to take those items as agreed to.
Colonel DAVIES and Mr. HUME stated, that they had
considerable objections' to the vote for Officers' Half Pay.
They did not object to Widows' Pensions. ,
The. Chairman then reported progress, and asked leave to sit
again on Wednesday. -
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the
House Adjourned at a QUARTER PAST'' WO O'CLOCK.