The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-28 00:00:00

omit some witnesses they bad intended to call, in reference to their
coal traffic evidence , in order that they might be able to close to-
day. He then went on to say that since the Committee had sepa
rated they had taken measures to supply the omission in respect
to Cambridge, that bad been mentioned yesterday. It was to be
supplied, provided the line from Peterborough to Cambridge
should be completed.
The examination of Mr. Wrigly was then resumed, in
reference to the profit which he had calculated
would result from the coal traffic in • London.
He had calculated that 2,600,060 tons of coals now came to Lon-
don for annual consumption; and assuming that one-eighth of
that would come by the London and York line, the Company's in-
come, at the rate of Nd. per ton per mile, would be, on 325,000
tons, 177,7341. Supposing that the London and York Company
were to supply one-half of the whole quantity consumed in the
country district, exclusive of London, the quantity would be
357,061 tons, and the income would be 44,632/. 12s. 6d., giving
a gross total income from the coal traffic of 222,3671.
Mr. Wedd, corn-factor, of London, was next examined as to the
corn traffic. He deposed that 14,917 tons of wheat were now ex-
ported from Peterborough in this way-6,000 tons to London, and
7,000 to Yorkshire, all of which would be conveyed by the pro-
posed London and York line, as it afforded the best facilities fur
conveyance. .
' •

Mr. HILDYARD asked witness why would not some of the Peter.
borough wheat, go to Lincolnshire, Nottingham, Birmingham,
Derby, and Staffordshire ?—Witness said, because there was no
mode of transit. Could not say whether the wheat would go to
those districts from Peterborough if there were a line from that
place to Stamford, because he could not calculate upon such an
assumption.

Mr. West, land-agent—Has been a good deal engaged in the
agricultural district of Grantham. He corroborated the evidence
of the last witness in respect to the corn trade of the districts
through which the London and York line would pass.
Mr. John Badley, cattle dealer—Has been employed in ascer-
taining the cattle traffic on the London and York Line. The
number of fat beasts sent from the London and York district to
Smithfield was 22,504; fat sheep, 222,552. The present mode
of transit was by land and water. All these animals would be
sent by the London and York line. The average distance they
would have to travel would be 85 miles. The estimated annual
income by railway for the trasit of them would be 51,400.. 4s. 6d.
After this witness had been examined as to the comparative
facilities for cattle traffic upon the proposed competing lines, and
those to be afforded by the London and York,
Mr. PAGET said that unless the Committee required more evi-
dence upon this species of traffic, he would take upon himself the
responsibility, heavy though it was, of not calling any more wit-
nesses as to the traffic.
The Committee asked if the evidence as to the coal -traffic had
concluded ?
Mr. PAGET said it had.

CHAIRMAN—Then you mean as to the cattle traffic?

Mr. PAGET—Yes.
The Committee then consulted together for a short time,
after which

The CHAIRMAN announced that the Committee were of opinion
that this was a point upon which they did not feel they would be
warranted in offering any opinion, aye or no; the counsel should
take that responsibility upon themselves. At the same time:it was
hoped that no unnecessary consumption of time would take place.
Mr. PAGET hoped he had already evinced a desire to economise
time; and then, after a short pause, he said he would take upon
himself not to call any other witnesses to give evidence of this
character.

The CHAIRMAN hoped Mr. Paget would lay a clear statement
before the Committee as to the whole traffic.

Mr. PAGET said he would, and they would now proceed with the
fish traffic.

Mr. Benton, of Harford Pool, then deposed that he had a very
extensive fish trade with London, the expense and facility of the
transit of which would be greatly facilitated by the London and
York line ; has paid as high as 271. per ton for the carriage of fish
to London ; thinks that would be reduced to 51. by the proposed
line, and the trade increased to 100 tons a day.
Cross-examined—Has sent as much as five tons of herrings in
a day to London, but they did not pay well. The Counsel then
asked the witness if Grimsby was not 50 miles nearer London than
Hanford Pool, but though he asked the question twenty times, he
could get no direct answer, or no answer at all, but one to the effect
that the fish would be bad, unsound, and useless, by the time
it got to Grimsby. ' After a few more questior.s,
Mr. Sergeant WRANGIZAM said he would not call anather wit.
ness on th,s branch of the case
The witness, in answer to the Committee, said he had hereto-
fore experierced no difficulty in his trade until he reached Rugby;
but, from that point to London the mode of traffic amounted to
a prohibition to the trade.

The Committee then adjourned to one o'clock on Thursday,

Group B.
RIPON AND HARROGATE LINE.

The Committee resumed at half.past twelve, Mr. P. M. Stewart
in the chair.

The first witness called was Mr. John Harris, a civil engineer,
who stated that he considered the country traversed by the Leeds
and Thirsk line exceedingly ineligible. Had surveyed the country
proposed to be traversed by the Great North of England scheme.
The works on the Leeds and Thirsk Line would be very heavy and
expensive. Thought a much better line might have been selected
between Leeds and Harrogate. A line more easterly would have
been prefcrale, and would, he thought, traverse equally popu-
lous di.tricts, but of this he was not quite sure. A
great many difficulties might have been avoided,
which were embraced in the Leeds and Thirsk line, as in
crossing the wharf Thought the calculations and estimates fur.
niched by Mr. Grainger were greatly too low. They would have
been ruinous to any contractor at Mr. Grainger's price. Mr.
Grainger's price for tunnelling was 401. per yard ; it could not be
done for less than 451. The amount of cutting on that line would
be 1,297,000 yards. and three yards deep, including in the whole
90 acres, which, at 1501. per acre, would amount jo 13,5001, as
the value of the land.

Cross-examined—Had been assistant engineer in the Shelton
tunnel, and ha.l executed the Weirdale Extension Railway.

John Parker Bidder was the next witness, an engineer—
He
considered the Ripon and Harrogate line free from any °Wee
tion in an engineering point of v!ew. Thought the Leeds and
Thirsk line had very large works, whereas the works of the other
were very tight. Thought the Leeds and Thirsk line had remark-
ably large and heavy works—larger than any he was acquainted
with, even than the London and Birmingham. With reference
to the curves and gradients he would not say there was anything
very bad in them, but the gradients might be, in some places, so
difficult as to prevent speed and punctuality in travelling. The
tunnelling would exceed that upon the London and Birmingham
by twenty per cent. Was of opinion that the line could not be
executed for 1,500,0001.—he meant the Leeds and Think line
with its branches.

The CHAIRMAN observed that that was nearly double Mr.
Grainger's estimate.

Witness continued to say that he did not make a detailed
estimate of the plan. Thought the Leeds and Thirsk project rash
and ill conceived.

In answer to Mr TALBOT, witness said that he thought it would
be very unwise to form a line passing south from' Wetherby to
Leeds,

And being cross-examined by Mr. BAINES, admitted that he had
not minutely considered the expenses of procuring materials for
the respective lines.
Mr. Martin, an engineer—Knew all the district round Leeds
intimately. Knew the Leeds and Thirsk line. Many places on
that line would not be accommodated by that line—they were
already accommodated by the Leeds and Bradford Railway.
Disapproved of the Leeds and Thirsk line as too expensive. Knew
the coal district in the neighbourhood of Leeds. If the Durham
coal-owners would sell their coals at Knaresborough, Iti,on, Har-
rogate, and Wetherby, at. 9s. Gr lOs 6d. a ton, there could be no
competition with coals brought on the Leeds and Thirsk Railway
from Leeds.

Cross.examined—Was surveyor to the Leeds and Bradford Rail.
way Company. Thought the Leeds and Thirsk line would be use-
ful for persons going to the north. There were six or seven mills
on the line. (Witness was handed a paper with numerous signa-
tures to it, but he did not know the handwriting of the individuals;
but he did not agree in the opinion expressed in it as to the eligibi-
lity of the Leeds and Thirsk line.)
Mr. George Mason produced a paper containing the list of as-
sents and dissents to the line, and other formal matters.

The case then closed on behalf of the promoters of the Ripon
and Harrogate line.
THE CHURCH FENTON AND HARROGATE LINE.

Thi. line was then brought under the consideration of the Com-
mittee. This line is a branch of the York and North Midland

Railway.

MIL r very considerable delay Mr. HiLnvatto entered the Com-
mittee.room, at d said he was happy to say that there would be no
of position to the Church Fenton and Harrogate line; he would,
therefore, at once call witnesses to show that the proposed line
would confer great advantages on Harrowgate and the towns
through which it was proposed it should pass.
Mr. Birkenshaw, an engineer, was the first witness called—
The line, he said, :would commence at Harrogate and
pass through We' herby, by way of Thorpe, and near
Saxton, to the Church Fenton station, The distance between
Hull and Harrogate would be nearer by this line than by
any other line. Knew the country well between Harro-
gate and Church Fenton. Wctherby was a place of considerable
importance. So was Thorpe Arch, which, with Bo: ton, was a
watering place much frequented during the season. There were no
engineering difficulties en this line. It would pass through a rich
agricultural district. The cost of the line would be 230,W001.
the length eighteen miles and a quarter. In this estimate
was computed a double line, which would be necessary. Wit-
ness's remuneration did not depend upon the contemolated extent
ofline. There would be 538 yards of tunnel. The worst curve was
35 chains radius, the steepest gradient in the line was one in 87.
There would be no difficulty in working that with the traffic which
might be anticipated on the line.
The CHAIRMAN—How came the Board of rtewlc to designate
the gradients on this line as on the whole unfortunate?

Witness—Unfortun to al compared with all the gradients in
other districts, but the gradients were the best which the district
could afford.

Mr. HUE/YARD said he believed the Ripon and Harrogate line
had withdrawn.

CHAIRMAN—You mean withdrawn opposition to the Church
Fenton line ?

Mr. HILDYARD—I mean withdrawn itself from the Committee
altogether. _ . _

CHAIRMAN—Can that be the case, Mr. Denison ?
Mr. DENISON, Counsel for the Ripon and Harrogate line, said
he could not contradict his Leaned Friend, though he had received
no instruction on the subject.

Mr. Hanman, a farmer, lived in Deighton, near Leeds—Knew
the line of Church Fenton and Harrogate—it would pass near
Wetherby. His opinion was that the line would be most advan.
tageoui ; it wou'd afford a ready transit to Wakefield, which
=night be termed the key of the whole manufacturing district. It
would
also afford transit to Hull, which was the best port for pro-
curing timbers, artificial manure, and materials for fattening cattle.
The line passed through the best lime kilns, and they would thus
be able to obtain the best lime for building or manure. The best
coals could be likewise had by this line.
Mr. Wilkinson gave evidence as to the traffic, &c., which would
take place on this line,e and which, he said, would amount to
aim
23,6311. Os. Bd,, 6 perost
10 per ent.on the estimated capital. The gross
traffic would be
.oceonOtiontlieestimate. The capital
;s
proposed to be raised ag 2 30
deposits, 9,0001. ; shares subscribed, 180,0001 ;
At the request of Mr. HILDYARD, this case was allowed to stand
ovtr until Thursday.
The CHAIRMAN would
defer giving his opinion on the respective
lines until that day.
Mr. Hope said that Earl De Grey had witnesses and counsel in
attendance, who would oppose the North of England line.
Thirsk appeared
Railway. o n behalflt
t
Mr. Sergeant BELLASIS then rose, and said
of the Earl of Cardigan to oppose the Leeds andde
would pass through nearly four miles of his property,
near the town
which it
of Leeds, and would entirely destroy thepicturesqueness
at present possessed, and greatly deteriorate e valueof
perty. The ground there was very suitable for villas and htohuesepsreof
a superior class, which were about being built there, but Lord
digan'a princip +1 objection was, that it would destroy the beauty.
of
that venerable and beautiful structure, Kirkstone Abbey, which
every Yorkshireman regarded with feelings of admiration. Lord
Cardigan's property lay upon both sides of the Aire ; through that
which lay upon the other side of the river a railway was made
a short time ago. If this railway, the Leeds and Thirsk
line were carried out, it would quite cut up and
destroy the beauty of the property, for it would inclose it, taking
within it the abbey he had mentioned. The abbey had, of late
years, been preserved at great expense by the Earl cf Cardigan,
and great preparations had been recently made for planting and
Otherwise beautifying the neighbourhood. The Leeds and Thirsk
line could to easily run into the Leeds and Bradford, and a branch
line would well supply the place of the Leeds and Thirsk line,
though there would be a gradient of 1 in 39.
Mr. Downes and Mr. Hayward, agents to the Earl of Cardigan,
gave evidence confirntatory of the above statement. They con.
slurred in saying that the proposed line would, if carried out, greatly
deteriarate the value of his Lordship's property in the neighbour- 1

hood of Leeds—destroy the views and quite inclose the abbey,
almost in a triangular form, the railway passing within 500 yards
of it. They agreed in saying that thirty acres of property there
would sell for 15,0001., for building purp(ses, but which, if the
railway passed through, would be only fit for cultivation. 20,0001.
would not compensate for the injuries which the line wou',l inflict.

After some consultation it was proposed that the Leeds and
Thirsk line should keep fifty yards further than had been proposed
from the abbey.

Mr. Sergeant BELLASIS said the proposal was well worthy of
consideration, and they would take until to-morrow to consider it.
Some evidence was gone into to show that the Leeds and Think
line would, by the cuttings, tunnels, &c., would injure the supply of
water to the villages near the town of Leeds.
The promoters of the line here said they would engage to make
good the same supply of water which they would remove by the tun.
nels, &c.

This was discussed at much length, and it was finally understood
that a clause would be introduced into the Bill, securing to the
villages in question a proper supply of water.
There being no further opposition to the Leeds and Thirsk line,
The CHAIRMAN wished to know whether the Ripon and Harro.
gate line was withdrawn ?
There was nobody in the room to answer this question.
Mr. EnnisoN, the solicitor for the Bill, said the capital was
886,000/. ; the deposit paid in 43,4051.
The Committcee then adjourned to Thursday morning, it being
understood that if the Ripon and Harrogate line were persevered
in, Lord de Grey, through counsel and witnesses, would have an
opportunity of opposing it.

Group V.

MANCHESTER, SHEFFIELD,