The Sun.
London, England, 1845-08-06 00:00:00

MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.

A message from the House of Commons brought up the Ex.
chequer Bills Bill, the Fisheries (Ireland) Bill, the Merchant
Seamen's Bill, a Bill for enabling the Eastern Counties Rail.
way Corppauy to construct a railway from Ely to Huntingdon.
the Lunatic Asylums (Ireland) Bill and others.
ADJOURNMENT OF TrIE HOUSE.

On the motion of Lord WHARNCLIFFE,
Their Lordships adjourned until Thursday.

ROUSE OF COIUMONS. Aug. 5.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock.
Rcturzs from the Commissioners of Sewers were presented.
Mr. WILSON PATTEN brought up the report on Should.
ham's Divorce Bill, schich was read a third time and passed.
SUNDAY TRADING.

Mr. PLUNIPTRE presented petitions from various places,
complaining of the inefficiency of the law relating to Sunday
trading, and praying the House to adopt nseasures to alter
the law.
Mr. WYSE presented a petition from Battersea and Chel-
sea, praying for another representative, in consequence of the
increase of the population of those districts.
FREE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from the members and
synod of the Free Church of Glasgow, complaining
of the proprietors of land in Scotland retusing to
let their land for the building of free churches,
particularly the Duke of Buccleuch, and praying the House to
Grant them such relief as it should think proper.
COUNTY HATES BILL.
The Lords' amendments to this Bill were agreed to.
NEWFOUNDLAND.
Mr. PAKINGTON presented a petition from the Legis-
lative Assembly of Newfoundland, signed by their Speaker,
praying for direct steam communication between that colony
, and England.
The Marquis of Westminster's Estate Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The LORD-ADVOCATE moved amendments of the
standing orders, No. 23 A and 39 A, for the purpose of assimi-
lating the regulations for the Scottish railways with those for
the English railways.—Agreed to.
CAMBRIDtiE AND HUNTINGDON RAILWAY.

1%1. WARD moved that the Lords' amendments to the
Cambridge and Huntingdon Railway Bill be confirmed.
The motion was agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. DARBY, the Lords' amendments to
the Biighton, Lewis, and Ha•.tiugs ( Hastings, Rye, and A,h-
lord Branch) Railway Bill were agreed to.
LUNATIC ASYLUNIS.
Mr. WAKLEY moved that an inquiry be made into the
management of public and private lunatic asylums.
. The motion was agreed to.
LONDON AND YORK RAILWAY.

. `Mr. DENISON presented a petition from the Directors of
the London and York Railway Company, containing a
denial of the allegations exhibited in the petition which
was presented yesterday from the Chairman of the
Cambr idee and Lincoln Company, and which stated
that the subscription list of the London and York line
was fraudulently made up. The petition which he presented
prayed that a lull inquiry might be made into the truth or
falsehood of those allegations ; and, in case the. allegations
should be proved to be false, that the House would
give the Directors of the London and York Company power to
prosecute the parties who had made those false statements. As
the House would adjourn from to-night until Friday next, he
should now move that during the interim the petition be en-
grossed and printed, and then on Friday he would be in a posi-
tion to found a motion on the subject.
Mr. ASTON set:ended the motion, and said that the
Directors of the London and York Company had spared no
expense or trouble, in order to make up a proper subscription
list. He felt satisfied, if the matter were fully inquired into,
it would be found the list was correctly filled.
Mr. HAWES said that the subject seemed to assume some
importance. He had presented a petition complaining that the
subscription list of the London and York line was fraudulently
made up, and new a counter petition was presented. The
House was bound to make every inquiry into the matter, and
be would not allow the investigation to rest until all the cir-
cumstances were fully inquired into. He bad received the posi-
tive assurance of the party from whom the petition emanated, that
that all the allegations which it contained were true, and could
be fully substantiated. For his own sake, and the credit of the
House, the inquiry ought to be instituted into the truth or
falsehood of the allegations, and he trusted that it would be
v.wie into at an early period in the next session : until that time
he would postpone his opinion on the matter.
Mr. WARBURTON wanted to know how a petition con-
taining such allegations as had been described could be re-
ceived and acted on, against a Bill in the stage in which the
London and York line was placed. He had been requested
to present a petition which contained similar allegations
aiea.iast the Dublin and Galway project. In answer to the requi-
vitien, ha had stated that the whole system of standing orders as
regarded railway Bills had been altered, and that the mode of
eroaedure, in his opinion, ought to be by presenrieg the poi-
vi and then moving that a Select. Committee be appointed to
s ,vestigate the matter. Counsel should also be heard
before . the Committee in support of and against the petition.
La lion. Member had presented a petition, preparatory to
entering for a Select Committee, with the view of inquiring into
i I li.*ft illegal frauds, and lie (Mr. Warburton) theught that in
these circum•tanees it would tas an injustice if an examination
into these allegations did not take place. At all events, if the
Bill were to be left over till next sisssion it should be perfectly
understood that the further proceedings should be suspended
spell the Select Committee which had been moved for should
report tii the House.
Mr. W EY said that when the petition signed by Mr.
grace was presented yesierday by the Hon. Member for Lam-
b, th, it was distinctly understood that a specific motion was to
be made this afternoon for a Committee to inquire into the
allegatspes contained in that petition. But his Hon. Friend
said it was too late in the session. Then he (ilr. Wak-
ley ) said the mischief was already done.--( Hear, hear. )
The petition presented last night contained allegations of gross
fraud. The petition presented that evening denied those alle-
gations and stated that they were grossly and scan-
dalously false. He could see nu remedy for the
earl unless the Committee were to sit some
time longer.—( Laughter.) He proposed that they should in-
vestigate the matters in these petitions, even if they sat from
eight in the morning till eight at night, in order that they might
at least understand the position in which they were placed before
tke end of the session.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
they ought to be cautious in granting the inquiry sought for at
the public expense. All private Bills were referred to a Select
Committee to examine evidence and report upon their merits,
and before them ample opportunity was given for examination
into all such things. That was the proper tribunal for inquiry
alto such allegation.-.(Hear, hear.) The promoters of private

Bills often, by compromise, agreed not to oppose each other
on the standing orders, or to expose the malpractices
of which each other had been guilty. Such a course, as he
understood, had been taken by the parties at issue in the pre-
sent question, and now that one party came forward to oppose
the other on the standing orders, he considered the House should
be careful what course it took. They ought not to be en-
couraged
in doing that at the public expense which they had
an opportunity of doing in Committee. The one party had
made an accusation, the other had furnished a denial,
and that ought to be considered sufficient, without going further
into the subject. The one would stand against the other. Be-
yond the printing of these he would not advise the House to go.
Mr. BROTHERTON agreed with the Chancellor of the
Exchequer in the course he recommended. The House
ought not to be called on to bear the expense of such an in-
quiry.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that he objected to the course
recommended by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He thought
there ought to be an immediate ii.quiry, so as to give the parties
who had been charged an opportunity of defending and vindi-
cating themselves from the defamation in the petition presented
last night. The real object of the petition presented by his Hon.
Friend ( Mr. Hawes) was to effect a stock-jobbing purpose ;
but that being defeated, they now wanted the matter put off
HI next session. All the petitioners of to-night, as
given in the petition of the Honourable Member
for the East Riding of York, required was inquiry, that a
foundation might he obtained for seeking redress in a court. of
ju-tice for the all: gations u•ged against the subscribers to
the London and York line. He had no doubt the allegations
were entirely false, and the House was bound to give redress.
They were allegations, he had no hesitation in saying, got up
for a particular and sinister purpose. Three days, cemmenc:ng
ne to-morrow morning, would be quite sufficient for all the
purposes of the inquiry.
Mr. B. DENISON said that there appeared to him to
be two questions in this matter—the House itself and the
parties themselves. —(llear, hear.) Here there was an
attempt to impose upon the House for the purpose of pre-
venting the progress of a Bill. The question then was
whether the House would take up the matter itself,
or leave it to the parties to defend themselves. There were
two petitions before the House, the one impugning the cha-
racter of the other petitioners who asked the House either to grant
there inquiry or to allow them to vindicate themselves in a
court of law. The petitioner (Mr. Bruce) staled that he
had employed sixteen or seventeen persons to make inquiries,
and that from their discoveries he made out the list which he
(Mr. Denison) held in -his hand. Now, of the persons named
therein, twenty had informed him this day, and stated thafthey
had been called on by " Inquirers," who stated—some that they
were sent by the House of Commons—others by the House of
Lords—and others by the London and York Company.
Now those twenty persons were represented in this list as non-
existent—( Hear, and a laugh)—although they had all seen
inquirers, and assured than they were ready to meet their
engagements. Perhaps Mr. Bruce himself was imposed
upon. But his agents had misrepresented persons of
nigh respectability, who were ready to come forward before a
Committee.—( Hear, hear.) For his part., he should persist in
the motion of which he gave notice on Friday night. —( Hear.)
Mr, II AWES said that he was willing to move for the
Select Committee to inquire into the allegations of Mr.
Bruce's petition, notwilistanding the late period of the
sesion, arid he would persevere in it, if they should have to
sit for forty-eight hours.—( Hear, and a laugh. )
Lord NEWA It said that he did not object to the .iepeint-
ment of a Select Committee, if it were possib!e t t get throueh
!tie Inquiry at this period of the session.
After some de es!tery conversation,
Mr. HA WES moved that the petition of ifr. Bruce, pre-
sented yesterday, should be referred to a Select Committee,
and that the inquiry be goneainto at once.--( Hear, hear. )
Mr. WA RBUli TON had heard nothing to alter the opi-
nions which he had already expressed. He would not object
to the Select Committee it the inquiry were to combine Rail-
way Companies generally. If this inquiry were to be prose-
cuted at the public expense petitions would be hereafter presented
to obstruct the course of public business—in short it wo 4(1 be
the uniform way of preventing Railway Bills passing through
the House. At any rate, if the inquiry went on, the parties
who sought for it should be made to pay the expenses of it.
Desiring to give the utmost facilities to parties making sllega-
I ions he should yet very much question the policy of the present
proceedings.
Sir R. PEEL said —.I very much doubt, Sir, whether one
of the remedies painted out in the petition actually exists. In
the first place, I doubt the policy of the course pointed out even
if the House could give the permission sought by the parties
who have presented a petition to the House. But, Sir, lam
not sure that a person making a false allegation in a petition is
a legal offence, for it has been ruled by competent tribunals
that a party presenting a petition to the House of Commons is
privileged to make allegations against third parties by virtue
of the presentation of said petition. You cannot, therefore,
prosecute a man for doing that which he is privileged to do.
The question is not, however, as to the truth of the allegations
or counter-allegations, but we are now dealing with an offence
against Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) A party has alleged as a
reason why you should not read the Bill a third time, that that
Bill has been fraudulently got up—that several frauds exist in
the subset iption deed, and those allegations they say they are
ready to establish. If, Sir, that party can substantiate these
allegations, he was perfectly warranted in presenting the peti-
tion, but if not, I think there is good reason for believing that
he has committed an offence against the House, because he was
making a statement which might influence the decision of the
Legislature. We have read the Bill a. third time, and we are
now dealing with the question as a Parliamentary offence, and
I cannot see that any great evil would result from inquiry.
What I would recommend is, that a Committee be appointed to
inquire into the allegations contained in this petition—this
Committee might, after a short inquiry, repo t to
the House what progress they had made—( Hear,
hear)—and whether or not it would be advisable
to resume it next session.—( Hear, hear.) Let the House re-
collect thet there is a positive statement that the allegations
contained in a position presented to the House are false and
fraudulent. Ido not see how you can pass over such matters
without notice. The circumstances of this case are very pecu
liar, and I cannot perceive any objection to the appointment o
a Committee with the functions I have mentioned.

Mr. WA KLEY thought that a selection might very easily
be made, and it was a bounden duty for the House to make an
inquiry into these allegations, and he trusted, at least, that the
Hon. Member for York would be appointed. There might
be no sufficient opportunity for inquiring into these charges to-
day, but it was incumbent on the House to inquire into the
truth or falsehood of these charges, and there might be time
for it by Friday. These persons complained that they were
seriously injured in their characters and commercial standing
by these allegations, and therefore it was but an act of justice
to free them from any imputation, or establish the truth of the
charges to which they were liable.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he could not assent to the
course proposed by the Hon. Member who pre,ented the peti-
tion.- Neither could he assent to the course proposed by the
Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Wakley), and he thought
that he shwuld sufficiently guard himself if he assented to the
proposition so far as it went to institute the inquiry, and he
trusted, therefore, that a committee of inquiry would be ap-
pointed.

Sir It. INGLIS thought, as the course proposed by the
leader on one side was supported by the leader on the other,
the best eoure the Hou,se could pursue was to appoint the
Committee, and net leave the parties simply to that remedy
which wan provided by the laws of the country.
lin the motion being put,
Mr. HAWES slid that he trusted no gentleman would re-
fuse to serve on this Committee.

But considerable difficulty was experienced in appointing a
Committee, several Hon. Members stating objections to serv-
ing. At le❑gth Mr. Hawes, Mr. E. B. Denison, Mr. Baring,
Mr. Warburton, AIL B. Escott, Mr. Hutt, and Lord Clive,
were appointed.

FIRE AT QUEBEC.
Col. DAMER brought a message from the Queen, stating
that her Majesty had given orders for the allowance of 20,000/.
for the sufferers by the fire at Quebec