The Sun.
London, England, 1821-06-29 00:00:00

themselves as at the first moment of their re-
moval from the slave ships. It therefore was an

object as well of humanity to the individuals, as
of interest to the communities into which they
I might be cast, that they should he removed from
all fear and danger of again falling into slavery,
and that they should be put in a way of
providing for themselves, and. becoming in-
dustrious and useful members. Of society.
The manner in which those individuals
should be disposed of was a. question 'of
great nicety, and in order to a satisfactory ar-
rangement, it was first of 'all necessary that the,
names, numbers, and qualifications of each should
be ascertained. Many wl'o had returned to
Sierra Leone had been settled in villages, where
they exhibited a pleasing and encouraging spec-
tacle of order, industry, improvement. He.
was not aware of .any net: ,sk v for saying more
a:.-dlit..uoj'e.t at present, and con cIIME4- by-4,041-•
ing an humble Address to his Majesty, praying
that he would be pleased to direct returns to be
made of all the Africans in .the several colonies.
and islands in the West Indies and elsewhere,
circumstanced as he had destribed, distinguish-
ing their names,.ages, and qualifications, whether
apprenticed, or, serving in the, army or navy, and
the dates and terms of their' apprenticeship, or
naval or military service, and ' the period when
they became entitled to their' discharges, and
that such measures may be adopted as shall be
expedient for their future protection and pro-
vision.

After a few words from Mr. WARRE, Mr.
GouLeurtN, and Mr. BERNAL---•
Sir R. WILSON said he wisheato know in what•
mariner the increase in the returns of the number
of slaves in the Island of Jamaica under the Re-
gistry Act of 1817 over the number returned
under the census in 1815 could be accounted for.
He asked this not with a view of imputing any
blame to the. Government of Jamaica, but in
order to remove any erroneous impressions m hich
the difference h 1 the returns might produce of the
increase having been occasioned by fresh import-
ations of slaves.

Mr. GOULBURN said the difference was pro-
bably occasioned by the circumstance of the
census in 1814 being ordered with a view to the
imposition of a poll-tax, which would give to the
proprietors an interested motive for the conceal-
ment of the real number of slaves on their estates,
which the Registry Act of 1817 did not hold
out. Besides which, under the census persons
not having a certain number of slaveS were ex-
empted from making any return,, whereas all
were obliged to make returns under the Re-,
,gistry Act.—The motion was thes., agreed. tp,

_ .
HUSBANDRY noßst. DUTIES' ItE PEAL BILL.
Lord MILTON, in moving the third reading of the above
Bill, observed, that he had intended to move for the insertion
of a clause to clear up doubts with reference to a class of per-
sons who would be affected by the operation of the Bill. He
alluded to small farmers, who, for perhaps one day in the year,
let out their husbandry horses, and who might perhaps be sur-
charged for keeping riding horses. Fearful, however, of de-
feating other important objects connected with the Bill, if he
persisted in pressing a clause of this nature, he deemed it ad-
visable to withdraw his notice. He hoped care would be taken,
however, not to demand duties from the small farmer under
other schedules of the assessed faxes, on account of the repeal
of the husbandry horse tax ; because, if other duties were levied
on him, he would be placed in a worse situation than that in
which he before stood.

Mr. GOOCH hoped that the most liberal construction would
be placed on the provisions of this Bill ; otherwise much in-
convenience would ensue.

The CHANCELLOR_ of the EXCHEQUER said, the
Bill should be interpreted with the utmost fairness and candour.
The proceedings, too, with respect to the assessed taxes, should
go on as if the husbandry horse tax had never existed.—
(Hear !)—He was glad the Noble Lord had abstained from
pressing his clause, which would only have created embarrass-
ment. He might be assured that no party would be placed in
a worse [situation after the passing of the Bill, than that in
which he stood before.

Aftera few words from Mr. Bright, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. Lord Milton, Mr. J. Smyth, Mr. Denman, and
Mr. Grenfell, the Bill was read a third time and passed.
Mr. MAXWELL presented a Petition from the Brewers of
the County of Renfrew, against the Beer Duties' Act.—Order-
ed to be printed.
REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Mr. GOULBURN brought up the Report of the
Committee of Supply.
On the motion that the Resolutions be read,
Mr. CALCRAFT said, that he understood there
were in this Report no less than 102 Resolutions.
As he strongly objected to the very first of them,
that for granting 20,0001. to satisfy the claims of
General Desfourneaux in the Island of Guada-
loupe, he thought be could not do better than
make a bargain with. the Right Hon. Chancellor
of the Exchequer, that if the Right Honourable
Gentleman would withdraw• that Resolution, he
(Mr. .Calcraft) would not object to the rest.
Without injury to the administration of the coun-
try—without endangering any of thr, public ser-
vices, without trenching on any place, pension or
other provision, here was an opportunity for that
portion of the House which was present to satisfy
their consciences by a vote of practical economy ;
and he called upon them to avail themselves of it
by refusing this 20,0001. As the case had been
already twice under the consideration of the
House, he would be very brief in his remarks
upon it. His objections to General Desfour-
neaux's claim were founded on a Report of
the Comptrollers of Army-Accounts, and on a
Minute of the Board of Treasury. There had
been, indeed, not only one Report from the
Comptrollers of Army Accounts, but that Report
having been sent back to them, they had re-affirm-
ed their original opinion. The clainfgrew out of
the following circumstances. It was pretended
by the claimant, that because, when on the oc-
cupation during two months in the year 1791, of
the Island of Guadaloupe by the British Sir C.
Grey took possession of the French hospital for
the sick and wounded of his army, he rendered
himself liable to the performance of all the agree-
ments under which that building had been let by
the owner to the French ; and that as on the eva-

cuition:of. theisland, the hospital was burnt, and
as one of the agreements between the French and
its owner "was, that in the event of any injury to
the building by fire, or otherwise, the French
should repair the injury, the British were ren-
dered liable. to make good the loss to. the owner.
There was no proof, however, that Sir Charles
Grey had :ever seen or' known any thing of this
agreement. No application was made for pay-
ment till the year 1810; application was then
made to Sir A. Cochraue,,who said he had no au-
thority to pay the demand, and referred the ap-
plicant to the British Government. No applica-
tion was Made in consequence of that reference;
but in 1818, 24 years after the event, and two
seasons of peace haVing intervened, an applica-
tion was made, and was referred by Govern-
ment to the Comptrollers of Army Accounts.—
He (Mr. Calcraft) was convinced, with the Hon.
Member for Sandwich, who was well acquainted
with the island of Guadaloupe, that he haiet-never
heard, nor had any body whom he knew, ever
heard of those claims before. However, made
they were, and wPrereferred to the Comptrollers
of Army Accounts ; he would now read to the
House the opinion of those Gentlemen, as expres-
ed in their Report.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER suggest-
ing that it would be more regular were the
Clerk to read the Resolution to which the lion.
Gentleman was stating his objections, it was read
accordingly.
Mr. CALCRAFT then proceeded to read the
Report of the Comptroller of the Army Account,
which was unfavourable to the claim, stating that
for many items of the demand there were no
vouchers at all, and that wherever a check could
be found, the unfairness of the claim immediately
became apparent ; and expressing a hope that the
Treasury would not consider the subject as de-
serving further attention. In 1819, however, in
consequence of further recommendation to the
Treasury, the question was again referred to the
Comptrollers, who reported that the statements of
the claimant were so inconsistent with each other,
and his pretensions so extravagant, that it was im-
possible to listen to them. In consequence of
this a Minute of Treasury was made, dated the
26th Nov. 1819, in which a most decided opinion
was expressed in hostility to the claim. In fact,
there were two of the Lords of the Treasury
themselves, who he (Mr. Calcraft) had good
reason to know would, if they were present, ab-
solutely vote against the grant. The Minute of the
Treasury declared, that after the fullest. conside-
ration the Lords of the Treasury had determined
that the claim must be rejected,for that it had not
been usual to repair damages consequent on the ope-
rationvof war. The fact Was, that the French ought
to have repaired the damage complained of. lie
understood, indeed, that General' Desfourneaux
had tried the French Government on the subject
before he tried the British. Rejected, however,
as the claim had been by the Comptrollers of
Army Accounts, rejected as it had been by. the
Treasury,' yet, strange to say, it had, in these
economical times, been adopted by a Committee
of the House of Commons. It seldom happened
that those who sat on his side of the House had
the opinion of the Treasury so decidedly with
them as on the present occasion. In the Minute
to which he had already alluded, the Lords of
the Treasury offered Gen. Desfourneaux 1,4001.
or 1,5001. for the care which had been taken of
the British sick and wounded. To the payment
of that sum, with interest, he (Mr. Calcraft)
would make no opposition whatever. But he
really could not understand how the main claim I
could be again advanced, except it was through I
the facility and good nature of the Right Hon. I
Gentleman opposite that a Committee was ap-
'
pointed to consider it, which Committee the
Right lion. Gentleman termed one of arbitration
between this Government and that of France.
Did any body ever before hear of such a
Committee: There was a strong rumour, that
among many promoters of this claim was a cer-
tain French banker, who had not contented him-
self with writing to Honourable Members on the
subject, but had even thought it worth his while
to canvass personally. The lion. Gentleman
proceeded to read and comment on the Report of
the CoMmittee, which stated, that though there
was no direct evidence, there was collateral evi-
dence of such respectability in its favour, that in
their opinion the money ought to be paid. in his
(Mr. Calcraft's) opinion, however, if any man
said that the present was not a proper occasion
to carry into effect the excellent sentiments ex-
pressed on all sides in that House lass night on
the subject of economy, he (Mr.Calcraft) would
say that he did not know when that occasion
would arrive.

Mr. WiLsoN defended the claim, and main-
tained that the Comptrollers of Army Accounts
were not justifiable in having run it down, be-
cause the direct vouchers were not forthcoming.
It certainly did appear by the best testimony the
Committee could get, that General Desfourneaux's

claim was well founded. In support of this opi-
nion, the lion. Gentleman read the. evidence
taken before the Corrunittee, and concluded by
trusting that lion. Members, finding it unable
to economise on subjects of greater importance,
would not turn round and make an innocent in-
dividual suffer on that account.
WARRE said the more he considered the matter, or
looked at the papers connected with this claim, he was more sa-
tisfied that the sort of proposition brought forward by his Ho-
nourable Friend (Mr. Ca/craft) Was that, which the House ought
to accede to.

Mr. GRENFELL, as an amendment, should propose to
substitute the sum of 1:3500, for 4:26,000 Us. 6d.
Mr. llor.atE SUMNER and Mr. W. PEEL supported the
Amendment.

Mr. 11. GURNEY, in a low tone of voice, expressed a con-
viction that the best course of proceeding would be (as we un-

derstood him) to direct that the report upon this claim be re-
committed.
Mr. KBjTH.DOEIGLAS was for the origiral resolution.

.
Mr. i'Etlla that he Fold ri all with great attention t}
papers prent-kii to the libuse on this sUbjett, and from al Lc
had seen,' he considered the claim of General Desfourneaux as
wholly without foundation. . lie s':oulti oppose the Resolutior:,
inc.-at:se- he thought the precedent would be e fatal one, to
grant money to inelvidua.s, unksi upon claims made is the
most satisractOry
Mr. MANSFIELD said a few words in favour of the graat,
of the smaller sum.

Mr. ‘iONCK observed, that - frowi the nature of the claim,
Members. were conipciliii to vote in the deitk. The claim was
said to be a<'xeibtied one, but in veting, be would rather erii,
on the right "side. He would, therefore, support the Larger
grant, rail.ler than by supporting the lesser sum, run the risk of
defeating claims winch traght perhaps be just.
Mr. in support of the original sum, es recom-
mended by the Committee, cont Aided that the claim had be.eti
satisfactorily made, 0-At. The Hanourable Member elso ob-
served, that he had no personal inUrest in the grant. Ile net e 4
only as Chairman of iNe Committee vihif:h had examined, tlic
claim, and had found that it, was a just one.
Lord' BINNING could not 'support the grant cf 20,0ea:t
but at the some time, he had no .tlaubt that the Committee
acted most conscientiouilin recommending it. He would sug-
gest to the lion. t nth:men (Mr. (renfell) the propriety ed-
terint his,4,mesidment,_, and .substituting 5,06 C,
3,5901. llowerer, if he sizeuld he called upon to. decide latweeu
the two, he would support the smaller grant iu preil.rcnce to
that of the 20,0001.

Lord CRANBORNE thought that even the sum of 34001.
was tco•much. if 'he had proposed the amendment, he would
have limited it to the sum of 1,4001., originally awarck,d by the
Treasury. However, as the House ought to be liberal on such
occasions, he would support theamendment.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER defended
the conduct of the Treasury in the coarse they had adOpted
with respect to the claim. As to the grant of 29,P(191. recoen.
mended by the Committee, he would admit that r.o Honourable
Member was bound by it, and that every Member ought,such a case, to judge for himself. For his own part, as a
Member of his Majesty's Government, having supported-tae
appointMent of the Committee, he felt • himself .bound to sup-
port their recommendation. Certainly he had no doubt on hii
mind t)iAt a considerable sum was due to Gen. Desfourneaux.
Sir F. OMMAN-E Y said (as we understood him) that ht
would not consent to vote any sum on the
The House then divided, and the numbers Were— , •
For the original Resolution - - - - 6.
Against it _ 53
Majority
On re-entering the. Gallery we found Mr. Is:
WILSON addressing the House on an Amendment
proposed-by Lord BLNNENG (in our absence) sub-
stitutinga sum of 5,0001, in the place of the 3,50Q1,
proposed by tile Amendment of 'Mr. Grenfell.
After a few words from Mr: Gordon, Mr. Grenfell, Mr. Ir•
ring, and Lord Binning, the House again diVided— •
For Mr. Grenfell's motion - - 41 •
For Lord Binning's Amendment - - .12 -
Majority in favour. bf the Grant 0f3,5001. only —29
On the Resolution being Tend for granting 90,0 thin. for cloth-
ing; maintaining and confining Convicts,
Mr. HUME said, he wished to know whether the clothing
was supplied by open contract, or whether it was supplied by
one individual ?

Mr. CLIVE said, that the contract had been given to the
same individual for several years, but that the last year the eon_
tract had been made on a more economical rate ; the eltirenee of
confining and clothing, for-each convict, did not amount to morn
than 201. a year.

•
Mr. numE said, that he wished to know whether the busi,
'less was done by open competition or private contract ? For
several years the country, under this heard, paid 1,3001. a year
more than it would have paid if the business had been managed
byypen contract.

-111-r..,CLIVE said, that he was not at that moment papa:l4
with more particular information. .
• NI r. 111111 E expressed his surpris^ that the Honourable Gen-
tleman was not able to give furtner information ; it was an in-
stance of the manner in which the business cf public Depatt-
ments wes conducted. He would, waiting for further informa-.
tion, move that the further consideration of the Report be post-
poned to Friday next.
Mr. li. ULIVE said, that contracts had been given in by dif-
ferent persons, and the lowest was taken.

Mr;HUMB said, that was of no use without public. compe-
tition. There were five contracts sent in for supplying Bona-
parte's Establishment at St. Helena with wine, and they 'were'
precisely of the same amount. This was .explained,- by the
contractors having had a previous meeting, and having agreed
amongst themselves as to the sum to be offered.
r. ARB TH NoT said, his Honourable Friend had left
thp House in order to procure the information required by the
Ilimourable Member.

Mr. HUME said, he did not wish to give trouble ; he would
withdraw his Amendment, hoping the information would be
supplied another time. -
'The Resolution was agreed to.
On a Resolution fora sum of 3,5001. forprinting certain pa-
pers being read,.
Mr.. 11 U Xll E said he would undertake to get the same work
executed quite as well for 20001. He would therefore move
that a mini of 20001. shouhrbe allowed.

Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, that it was the intention of Go,
vermnent to submit to a Committee the subject of printing the
whole of the papers in the various departments, with a view to
public economy. Ile would therefore suggest to the Honour=
able Member to withdraw his Amendmer;t.

Mr. G. BENNET protested against the
_practice of
Members of that House being converted into clerks up stairs,
to do the business of the Executive Government.

Mr. ARE UTIINOT said, if any objection lay. to appointing
a Committee, he had no hesitation in saying that CovernmeLt
would attend to-the subject.
The SPEAKER said, that the Speaker had nothing to do
with the charges made.; he had only to take care that the wort
was executed, and to certify the same to the Treasury. A sutra
was aways voted less than the atnouct of the charge made foi
the work.

, .
Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, that he would take care to
have the matter placed on a' tight footing- and would be happy
to receive the suggestions of the Honourable Member for Aber.
deer.

After a few words from Mr. Su AMER and Mr. G. Br.nlivr,
Mr. HGNIE said, that if the Honourable Member would re-
ceive the information of individuals that he would send to him,
or if he would consult the trade, he would find that the busi-
ness could be done as well as it is at presmt executed at hall
he expellee.
The Rcsolution was agreed to.
The next Resolution was ibr a sum for Printing the Votes of
the House.

On the question being put,
Mr. G. BENNET said, that the Statutes, which had been
formerly furnished to Members, were now sold. They were
printed for the use of Parliament, yet they were only to be pro_
cured by Members paying for them. For himself, he was too
poorstb payfOr them, yet no ;wanted than; and yet he. thought
no individual wua bett:er entitled to them.

After some oL3ervations from the SPEAKER and I.lr.
BENNET,

:11r. HU:SIE observed,. that before the Union 3,b20 copies of
all Acts of Parliament were distributed to the diet rent Sessionii
and Public Oflics. Since the Union &ere had been &,t7-00
copies of every Act printed; so .that if any Quarter Sessions
were without the copies of Acts, it must be through their own
negligc'tice. _ _ _

Koine further conversation of no importance took place
be-
mu:a:_the Speaker, Mr. Hume, Mr. Arbuthnot. and Mr. But-
terworth, on the same subject.
Tl:e Resolution was agreed to. .
012 the Resolution for 3,0001. for re-printing the Jourrmls,
Mr. HUM-4 observed, that an offer had been made to per-
form this printing work for half the present expellee. •
-Mr. ARBUTHNOT said the proposal would be examinA.
On the vote for the Maintenance of Criminal
Lunatics,
Mr. IlumE observed, that there were several
persons who were in confinement under this de-
scription, who during their imprisonment had bt.-
come sane, and might be released without any
danger- to the community. He referred 4o -the
cafe of au individual of the name. of Mactillee:,