The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-26 00:00:00

AILi'AY COMMITTEES.
(SAMRDAY.)

Group W.

AKEFIELD, PONTEFRACT, AND GOOLE RAILWAY.
The Committee to whom this group of railways was referred, met
to day at twelve o'clock in room No 6, to hear the further exami.
nation of witnesses on behalf of the promoters of the above line ;
Pakington in the Chair.
Previous to the examination of Mr. Harris, engineer, being re-
sumed., further evidence was, at the suggestion of Mr. Talbot,
heard, to show the oaily inconvenience which arose at the Nor.
roanton station, from the great amount of traffic that passed that
station. _ _ .

Mr. P. Clarke was then -examined—He stated that he had had
the general superintendence, for the three years up to April last, of
the York and North Midland Railway. Had the arrangement of
the trains at the Normanton station —the power to make
alterations rested with him. He exerted himself to the
utmost to remedy the inconvenience and delay which arose
at the Normar.ton station, in consequence of the immense amount
of traffic which passed that station. The increase of workmen and
assistants could not remedy this. If more buildings were erected
so as to afford larger accommodation for the re.arrangement of the
trains, a little relief might be afforded. He thought, however, that
the traffic at present was beyond what could be accommodated con.
veniently, and that any increase of it would materially interfere
with the interests of the public.

By Mr. KNOWLES--Passenger trains from York by the York
and North Midland line, are not detained at the Normanton sta-
stion by the necessity of an engine to take them on.
Mr. John Harris, engineer, whose evidence was partly heard
yesterday, stated that the, terminus of the proposed line at Goole
would be at one of the shipping docks. It was
a convenient station for passengers, and was admirably
adapted for goods traffic also. There were large warehouses situated
near it. There was a branch in connexion with the railway at
Goole, about a mile in length, and which proceeded along the streets
of the town, and terminated on the banks of the Ouse. The gra-
dients on the whole line were favourable. The worst gradient
from Wakefield to Goole was lin 250. There was a gradient of
in 253 in the Midland branch. The Sheffield and Bight
branch had a gradient of 1 in 150 for about one-half of the line,
and the rest was nearly level. The narrowest curve on the pro-
posed line was eighteen chains in radius. The remaining curves
were favourable and very few. The witness then proceeded to
detail the items of the estimated cost of the line. The cost of land
was 52,9441.; of fencing, drains, &c., 13,7071. ; earthworks,
97,8131.; bridges and culverts, 60,8061.; crossings and road-gates,
5,2.571. ; rails, 54,3901. ; (which were calculated at 101. per ton.)
The supp,,rts on which the end of the rail rests was 12,705.
Mr. Harris continued to detail the estimated expense of the line.
The sleepers for the rails were estimated at 20,707/. ; the wood
stays, 1,015/. ; wood pins, for fastening the chairs, 7311. ; the
cost of ballast road laying and carriage materials would be 24,6131.;
and stations and contingencies, 20,306/. The total cost was 365,000/.
'as quite sure that the proposed line was the best that could be
selected to open up the resources of the country, and was besides
the least expensive, from the favourable nature of the ground
through which the line passes. The estimated cost would be quite
ample to complete all the works. The whole length was 27 miles,
and the cost per mile would be about 13,6001. The height of the
line above high water was 16 feet.

By Mr. KNOWLES—The Ayre and Calder Company has en-
gaged to give every facility to the line.
Mr. PIERERING here rose and said that he felt himself again
under the necessity of requesting the Committee to interpose their
authority to prevent Captain Laws from making suggestions, and
acting as a prompter to the different witnesses under examination.
The CHAIRMAN repriaranded Captain Laws, and suggested the
propriety of his leaving the seat where he at present sat and of re-
moving to another part of the room.
Mr. Harris was subjected to a long cross-examination by
Messrs. PICKERING and KNOWLES, with a view to point out the
inaccuracy of the estimated cost of the works on the line; but as
the Committee did not think that any slight discrepancy which
could be pointed out in the cost of the construction of the works was
worthy of such a protracted examination,
The' CHAIRMAN suggested to the opposing counsel the propriety
of abridging this cross-examination, unless some very material
error could be pointed out.
Mr. AUSTIN, who had entered the room a short time before, here
rose and said that that was the strangest doctrine he had ever
heard annou,ced from a Railway Committee. At that rate an
engineer might come forward and say anything he pleased. He
might say that the estimated cost of a line was 100,0001., while in
reality it would cost 1,000,0001.
"khe CHAi RAI A N said that the Committee had not the least idea
of dictating to counsel the course which they ought to pursue,
but he thought that unless some very great mistake could be
pointed out in the estimate, they were only taking up their time to
no purpose. He had no doubt but the competing lines were both
very good, but he thought that their duty would be limited to the
consideration as to which of them would be most advantageous to
the public interests.
A very smart conversation then took place between counsel on
both sides, in which some personal observations passed between
Mr. Austin and Mr. Wilkins, and which resulted in an apology
from Mr. Wilkins for the warmth into which he had been betrayed.
The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock on Monday.

Group V.
SHEFFIELD AND NEWARK LINE.
The oppontlits of the Parliamentary line continued this morn.
ing to call evidence.
Mr. Haync, C.E., sail that the tunnel on the amended line would
cost at least from 401. to 501 per yard. He was acquainted with
the stratum through which it would pass, and he did not think it
the same through which the Parliamentary line should be made.
Joseph Meashorn, coal agent, was called to show which line
would best open up the coal-fields. His opinion was, that the ori-
gin line would be decidedly the best.
John Boots gave similar evidence.
This was the case for the opponents, and

Mr. WHATELEY, Q.C., rose to address the Committee—He con-
tended that his Learned Friend Mr. Baines had not proved a ne-
ceisity for the scheme before the Committee, and that as the valu-
able purposes of such a line were exceedingly doubtful, the Corn..
=Mee should decide against it. The preamble of the Bill had not
been proved, but even if doubtful the Hon. Committee were bound
to reject it. The Learned Counsel then entered at considerable
length into detail to show that the valuable minerals of the country
could not be more easily conveyed by this railway.
Mr. BANES replied, and the Committee determined that they
would net pass the preamble of the line under consideration until
they had heard evidence on the Sheffield, Manchester, and Chester-
field line.
The Committee then adjourned.

Group EE.
DUNDEE AND PERTH ;NORTH) RAILWAYS.

The Committee on these lines resumed this morning at the
usual hour; the R.ght Hon. F. Bating in the chair.
Mr. M'Veagh examined by Mr. FORSYTH—Is a civil engineer
of grew experience. Has had the estimates given in by Mr.
Miller and Mr. Storie submitted to him. Does not believe that
the railway projected from Dundee to Perth can be constructed
at anything like the sum named by the former, who has considera-
bly underrated the cost in almost every particular. Mr. Miller's
estimate for the Dundee and Perth line is fully 50 per cent. lower,
than any other constructed by him. On his own computation
there would be 30 feet of base, and an average slope of 1 to 1 ;
the earthwork will comprise 639,000 cubic yards of clay, and
278,000 cubic yards of rock work. On the permanent way he
anticipates an increase of 30,0001. above the price stated by Mr.
Miller.
Cross-examined by Mr. AstnriEws—The other lines constructed
by Mr. Miller, with which he had compared his estimate of
the Perth and Dundee, were the Glasgow and Greenock,
and the Glasgow and Edinburgh. The former is an
unusually expensive line, the earthwork having cost no
less than 15s. a yard in some places, and the tunnel-
ling was extensive and difficult. Has had no experience, nor has
examined the line himself ; but lie is competent, by assuming the
correctness of Mr. Storie's evidence, to state positively that his,
and not Mr. Mi ler's estimate, was true.
Mr. Enington, examined by Mr. FORSYTH—IS a civil engineer
and having been astonished at the great difference between Mr.
Miller's and Mr. Storie's estimates, caused five different surveys
to be made of the line, and as many computations were sent in of
the quantity of work and cost required, all of which confirmed
the statement of Mr. Storie, and contravened that of Mr. Miller.
Mr. Enington, cross-examined by Mr. ANDREW*--It is not abso-
lutely necessary in the survey of a line that shafts should be sunk
to ascertain the nature of the earthwork borings are frequently
employed, but neither will give perfect accuracy. Has had con-
nexion with the Junction and the Glasgow and Greenock lines, and
in comparison with those lines estimates the expense of working
at forty-five per cent., and the average cost of earthwork at Is. Bd.
a yard. The management will entail an expense of 2,8901.
Mr. Miller, examined by Mr. FORSYTH—Is an inhabitant of Perth,
and having seen the traffic tables handed in by the promoters of the
Dundee and Perth line, has discovered various discrepancies. The
witness was on the point of mentioning the items in which inaccu.
racy was palpable, when
Mr. ANDREWS objected to any evidence being proceeded with on
the question of traffic, relying on the faith of a pledge given by
Mr. Forsyth not to enter into that subject.
The Commirrce ruled in favour of the objection, and witness
was accordingly withdrawn.
This being the last witness on behalf of the opponents of the line,
Mr. COCKBURN proceeded to sum up the evidence on the case,
and avowed his intention of confining his objection chiefly to the
erroneous and underrated estimate furnished by the promoters of
the Bit. That estimate had named 200,000/. as the sum wee's.
sary for the construction of the line, and they had only asked for
powers to raise that sum, besides a loan of 66,0001., which it was
very doubtful if they could ever effect. But Mr. Stowe, a most emi-
nent engineer, and a witness fully competent to give indisputable
evidence, had solemnly stated that not less a sum than 365,0001.
The question, therefore, for the Committee to decide was nar-
rowed to the one, whether they were perfectly satisfied that Mr.
Miller's estimate was sufficient to complete the project, and whe-
ther, in the event of its insufficiency being established, they were
prepared to pass the preamble of a Bill which would empower a
company to begin a line, find their funds inadequate to proceed,
cncroacu on the land of owners, and then leave mounds and
incumbrances, whose only effect would be to swallow up the
capital, which, inadequate for the purposes proposed, was suffi-
cient to entail considerable loss, if not ruin, on the unfortunate
parties who subscribed. Another objection was the in-
terference it would necessarily create with the Aberdeen
Railway—a project to come before the Committee in the ensuing
week. He, therefore, conjured the Committee to refuse the
preamble of the Bill, as a matter of justice to that company whose
merits and consideration were yet in abeyance.
Mr. FORSYTH, on the part of the conservators of the River Tay,
addressed himself to the subject of the inconvenience arising to
that river from the erection of the bridges.

Group R.
DUBLIN AND BELFAST JUNCTION RAILWAY.

Mr. Gibson Craig in the ch
Sir John 51`Nieil's cross-examination continued by Mr. Alex-
ander at some length, respecting several lines he had formerly
surveyed, one or two of them at the instance of the Government
Railway Commission, and 'which he stated had much more favour.
able gradients than the line now under the consideration of the
Committee. One or two of the lines surveyed were inland. The
reason why the gradients were then made so slight was the belief,
by engineers, that no railway could be constructed with gradients
less than one in two or three hundred.
To Mr. BOYLE—tie surveyed in 1835 a line between Drogheda
and Portadown, at the instance of a Company, called the Great
Trunk ; he also surveyed, at the instance of the Railway Commis-
sion, lines between Dublin and Armagh and Dublin and
Enniskillen. He received no instructions as to including Bel-
fast, Newry, and Portadown. This he was quite certain of,
as his instructions were to survey the best lines between certain
points that were set forth. He also surveyed four lines for private
Companies in the north of Ireland. Among others, he surveyed
a coast line, which at that time was thought to be a mere specula-
tion. Events since had shown the value of that opinion. The
traffic since that time had much improved. The present line would
give the greatest amount of accommodation to Newry, Armagh,
Portadown, Belfast, and Dundalk. There were rising gradients
for 23 miles towards Portadown, averaging 1 in 210.
To Mr. O'MALLEY—He had read the Board of Trade report re-
specting the North Western Line, from Dublin, through Cavan,
to Kells, but he did not recollect the purport of it. Hisch
Drogheda
opinion was, that a line from the Navan to
was
ther:ghed a was much
greater than the traffic to Dublin. Drogheda nearest
and
cheapest port for Navan, and the best market for agricultural pro-
duce. He considered the making ofae liinnnectfrinonmn isiTaKvaerobutaldncbhei
a waste of money. The height of the
with the Dublin and Drogheda Railway was 95 feet abovethe
mleavdee
of the Boyne. He expected there would be an arrangement
fur lifting up produce from the quays t, the line, but tltwasan
after consideration, it was not provided, in .he Bill.
To the Ciwasiast—He was convinqsei that this line was the
best for the interests of the county. I oew the whole county
vett, and that was his matured and t. led conviction. lie did j

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