The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-30 00:00:00

carried the measure into operation. The Government
rejected a compromise of this sort, because it was con-
trary to the principle upon which they had acted
throughout, and because it would not have answered the
urpose of the Noble Lord, viz. afford time for the
'Females in the factory for the exercise of those
domestic duties to which the Noble Lord had alluded,
and for purposes of recreation. Ha was sure that the
Government would not suffer in the estimation of their
usual supporters because they refused to sacrifice their
opinions of right on this matter, nor consented to re-
lieve themselves from present difficulty at the expense
of the permanent interest of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
No man could more deeply regret separation from those
friends of his who had been the consistent and regular
supporters of the present Government. No ; Hon. Gen-
tlemen who supported him well knew that the way to
secure lasting confidence and respect was to act accord-
ing to their conscientious convictions. And he was
certain that three months hence his Hon. Friends
would hold the Government in higher estimation.
Ile never felt more convinced of anything than that the
proposed restraint would be most injurious to commerce
and manufacture, but to no class so injurious as to the
working people themselves. He thought that, at least
as far as adults were concerned, the principles of labour
should be left entirely unshackled—should be left to
voluntary agreement. It was urged, in favour of the
Noble Lord's proposition, that, in many towns, the fac-
tory labourers did not work more than ten hours. Now
he (Sir R. Peel) thought this argument told rather in
favour of the principle of voluntary labour ; for if ope-
ratives might so arrange, as it was stated they had ar-
ranged, not to work for more than ten hours, where was
the need of legislative restraint ? Where was the
necessity of such dangerous interference ? He
must say that the Government would yield lo the
Noble Lord in preference to any other Member of
that House. His Noble Friend bad been for many
years the noble and consistent advocate of the principles
which he now sought to carry into operation. He had
made great sacrifices, and would have been a member of
the present Government but for his conscientious adhe-
rence to those principles. He considered that the re-
straint upon labour would not be attended with counter-
vailing advantages, and that if the Government be ac-
ceded to the eleven7,hour compromise they would have
weakened their own position and given up those principles
for which they had been contending. It was, he must re-
peat, with the greatest pain he differed from so many of
his supporters on this question, but he felt satisfied that
after further deliberation the majority of that House
would take a very different view from that which they
had already taken. The Government would persevere
in a temperate, firm, and uncompromising advocacy of
their own opinions, and he strongly hoped that the re-
sult would prove, that the opinions of the majority of
that House would be in favour of the course pursued by
her Majesty's Ministers.
Mr. CHARLES WOOD thought the proposition of
the Noble Lord was not at all calculeed to give satis-
faction to the great body of the working classes, and
that it would tend materially to injure the manufacturing
interests.

Lord PALMERSTON said it was time that, if the
Government thought the maintenance of their proposal
was essential to the interests of the country, they were
perfectly justified in carrying it out ; but, still, he
thought it rather an unusual course, after the sense
of the House being manifested as it had been
in this instance, to withdraw the original
Bill, and then to replace it- by . another iden-
tically the same. He could not at all 'attribute any
blame to his Noble Friend opposite, for consenting to
this course, because he thought it was the only manner
in which he could act. At the same time it was his
(Lord Palmerston's) intention, if his Hon. Friend the
Member for Finsbury pressed his motion to a division,
to vote in favour of it. Notwithstanding the particular
opinions which the Government might entertain of the
more beneficial results of a Twelve Hours' Labour Bill,
over that of one which sanctioned a smaller number, he
thought, after the strong expression of opinion by the
House, that the Government did not act very judiciously
in tke course they were pursuing. He did not think the
Government were justified in charging Hon. Gentlemen
who opposed them with introducing a new principle in
legislation, for they themselves proposed to regulate the
labour of adult females. It was the Government, there-
fore, that first introduced this innovation.—(Hear.)
Mr. WILLIAMS hoped his Hon. Friend the Member
for Finsbury would not press his amendment, as he
thought it would not be attended with any practically
beneficial result.

The amendment was then negatived without a division,
and the order of the day wasjischarged.

REDUCTION OF DUTIES.

On the Order of the Day being read for going into a
Committee of Supply,
Mr. E WART moved " That it is indispensable to
.the maintenance and extension of the trade of this coun-
try, that those duties be repealed which press on the
raw materials of the woollen an 4 cotton trade : that it
is expedient also that those duties be greatly reduced
which press on articles of interchange in return for our
manufactures ; especially such articles of interchange as,
at the same time, concern the subsistence of the people ;
being (besides corn, which is the subject of superior and
separate consideration) such articles as tea, sugar, coffee,
bacon, butter, and cheese • That it is expedient that
.those duties also be greatly reduced which, by. their
.amount, encourage smuggling ; being at once injurious
•to the revenue and dangerous to the morality of the
country ; such as the duties on tobacco, silk goods, and
foreign spirits: That whatever temporary deficiency of
revenue be caused by such reduction ought, until the reve-
. nue regain its former amount, to be sustained by the pro-
perty, and not by the trade and labour of the country."
lie regretted that the other evening, when he
brought this matter before the House, it had not re-
ceived that attention which its importance demanded.
Amongst the many. points to which he would refer was
that of raw cotton, the duty upon which operated most
harshly upon the manufacturer. On the articles of tea,
sugar, and coffee, the people had a right to an alteration
of the duties, and on such commodities as tobacco,
spirits, &c;, the high duties on which led to smuggling,
, he put it to the House whether it was not better for the
morality of the country that those duties should be re-
duced. The duty on foreign spirits, such as brandy,
Geneva, &c., were unreasonably high, and he thought
that the present Government, would do well to follow the
example of Mr. Pitt, who increased the revenue of the
country by lowering the duty on those latter articles.
Here Lord G. Bentinck, who was conversing on the
Ministerial benches with another Hon. Member, said
aloud " Question, question"— and
Mr. EWART said—He was sorry to interrupt the
Noble Lord.

Lord G. BENTINCK—No interruption—not in the
least.
Mr. EWART was sure that the Noble Lord did not
mean to insult an Hon. Member of that House. The
lion. Gentleman was proceeding to continue his address
when, there being but a few Members present,
Mr. HUME moved that the House be counted.

Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and after the
lapse of a few minutes, on our re-admission we found,
there being more than forty Members present,
Mr. EWART on his legs, stating his conviction that
the _Right lion. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer could not but see the impolicy ofmaintaining the
present system. If the Government adopted his views,
they would find that the loss sustained in one article
• would be compensated in another, and the ultimate effect
would be the advantage of the poor by the cheapening
of articles of subsistence, and the removal of smuggling.
Mr. HUME rose to second the motion, in order to
express his surprise at the conduct of those who ought
to know better.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Ewart) had brought forward this subject on a
former occasion, and the House was then counted out,
and when the Hon. Gentleman now brought the same
subject forward he was met by cries of " Question."
Her Majesty's Government -would not look at the
origin and source of the evil. The reeking ricks showed
what was the state of feeling amongst the labouring
classes. The Hon. Member then read an extract from a,
daily paper in reference to the recent incendiary fires ;
attributing the fires to low wages, and the severity of
the poor-law. The present legislation prevented
the labourers . from getting work, and therefore
from obtaining food. It was -discreditable to a reformed
House, of -Commons to pay little attention to the prac-
tical grievances of the country. They would shortly
have to go into a Committee of Supply. It was a dis-
graceful fact that not more than forty or fifty persons
would attend the House on such occasions. He did
think her Majesty's Government had much to answer
for on account of the present condition of this country.
The SPEAKER having put the question,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Hon. Gentleman had attacked the House of Commons
as a body. For that attack he did not feel ; but he was
called upon to reply ; and if the Hon. Gentleman had
been interrupted, the interruption arose from the feeling
that the amendment was not likely to be of any practical
use, and it was opposed chiefly by those on his own side
of the House.—(Hear, hear.) He apprehended the
Hon. mover of the amendment had brought forward this
subject rather with a view of stating his opinion than
with the hope of meeting with concurrence. All per-
sons agreed in the abstract principle that it was a great
evil to have taxes on raw materials. The Hon. Gentle-
man said it was indispensable to the trade of this country
that the tax on wool should be repealed. Why, it ap-
peared that the quantity of cotton imported
into this country in 1842 was 4,200,000 cwt.
in 1843 ,it was 5,200,000, being an increase of 100,000
cwt.—(Hear, hear.) The value of the exports in 1842
was 21,690,0001.: in 1843, it was 23,440,0001, being an
increase in one year of 1,700,000/. Take the article of
wool. In 1842, the value of wool imported was
4,440,001. ; in 1843, it was 4,860,0001. The exports in
1f142, amounted to 5,800,0001.; in 1843, to 7,480,0001
How could the House, with these facts before them, ex-
press an opinion that it was indispensable to the main-
tenance of our trade in these two articles that the tax
should be removed ? The proposition would involve
the House in an absurdity, which it could hardly in-
tend.—( Hear.) His general objection to the other parts of
the motion was, that it would not be wise to commit
the House to the expression of an opinion on very large
branches of taxation. He thought the Hon. Gentleman
was hardly aware, indeed, of the extent of his own pro-
positions. He proposed to deal with an amount of taxa-
tion which would fall little short of thirty millions of
revenue. If the House adopted these propositions, what
would be the effect ? Why, that they would throw the
whole of the great interests of this country into the
utmost confusion, and create an alarm with respect to
the credit of this country by which they would forfeit all
those advantages which they now derived from that
source.—(Hear, hear.) He did not mean to express any
opinion as to the propriety or impropriety of these
taxes ;. the time would come when it would be their
duty to state what were their views on that
subject. • In one part of the Hon. Gentleman's
motion, he proposed that the deficiency should
be made up by a property-tax. On that subject the
Hon. Gentiman seemed to have , changed his opinion.
If he mistook not,- he opposed the proposal of his Bight

Hon. Friend to establish an income-tax. He had now
changed his opinion.
Mr. EWART—No, no ; that was an income-tax.—

(Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he
believed he acted in concurrence with the general opi
nion in not enterinc, further into the discussion of this
subject. Believing the motion could not be attended
with a good effect, he should certainly offer it all the
opposition in his power.—(Hear, hear.)
Dr. BOWRING said it was only by bringing forward
these subjects, thus repeatedly that they could hope they
would be brought to a satisfactory settlement. Matters
could not long continue in their present position. The
experiments which the House seemed determined to try
would not at all diminish the public distress. The pro-
bability was that they would greatly aggravate and in-
crease it.---(Hear, hear.) The whole tone and character
of their proceedings must undergo a great change; and
the more this was impressed upon that House, and
through it upon the country, the greater chance was
there of the evils of the country being remedied.
Mr. F. BARING said that if the Legislature were to
make any compensation in the way of imposing new
taxes in lieu of others, they ought to do so on some com-
prehensive principle. If they were to take off taxes,
they ought to look at what the effect of the Excise was
upon industry and the comfort of the people. If they
were only to take the case of soap, be would say that no
tax upon raw material operated more severely upon the
poor than that tax did. He believed, with Mr. Cobbett,
that there was no tax which did not press severely upon
the labouring classes ; but he did not think that any
relief would be afforded to them by reducing the duties
on the import of the raw material. He hoped that the
House would not accede to the motion.

Mr. WILLIAMS thought that no man who paid at-
tention to the interests ()film country could uphold the
duty upon the import of the raw material of wool and
cotton. If the late change in the duty had not taken
place, he asked, what would be the state of the Exche-
quer ? What would be thecondition of the Government?
He could see no reason why the raw material should be
taxed. If he were to take the tax upon tobacco he should
ask why the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite should
pay no more than 125 per cent. upon his cigars when
the poor man was obliged to pay upon his tobacco up-
wards of 800 per cent., and the poor man paid upon the
coarse kind of tea four times as much as any Member of
that House paid for his own beverage. It was to him
quite evident that the House of Commons had no sym-
pathy for the people ; and, without meaning any disre-
spect, he would express his hope that the day was not
far distant when the House of Commons would feel the
pressure out of doors.
Mr. P. HOWARD, in supporting the motion, wished
to state his opinion, that when the Legislature imposed
the tax upon income they should have fol►owed
the example of the rest of Europe, and left
the import of the materials of labour untaxed.
The manufacturers of England were exposed to very
severe competition with the Low Countries, with the
tact and activity of France, and with the steady indus-
try, not of our fellow -subjects, certainly, but of the de-
scendants of our own race in the United States; and un-
der these circumstances, he thought it highly desirable
that her Majesty's Government should take the tax
upon cotton wool into their serious consideration, with a
view to its removal.

The House then divided, when there were—
For going into Committee BB
For Mr. Ewart's amendment ...... 24
Majority for Ministers
SUPPLY—BRITISH MUSEUM.

The House then went into Committee, Mr. GREENE
in the Chair.
Sir R. PEEL said the House was so familiar with the
subject for which he was going to ask a vote of money,
that he felt it was unnecessary to say anything in pro-
posing it, though he should be most happy to answer
any question, or give any information that might be de-
sired. He would, therefore, simply move, that a sum
not exceeding 37,9871. be granted to her Majesty for
the charges of the British Museum.
Mr. BERNAL said he wished to call the attention of
the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) to the case of one
of the most deserving officers of that establishment. It
was that of Mr. Jose, an able, experienced, and efficient
servant, whose salary was only 3501. per annum, who
had no apartments assigned to him, and whose duties
were of the most responsible character. He was en-
trusted with a vast amount of property, and was en-
gaged in classifying large assortments of prints, and had
lately re-arranged the whole of the Rembrandt collec-
tion. During the last year, from seven thousand to
eight thousand persons had visited the Library, and he
really thought, that where such responsibility rested,
and where services were so efficiently performed, they
ought to command a somewhat higher salary.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said no one was more willing
to bear testimony to the character and services of this
excellent public servant, than he was. He {(Mr. Jose)
had been elected to his present situation by the una-
nimous vote of the trustees; but then it had been done
on the plain, distinct understanding, that its duties were
to be performed for the present salary. This had been
stipulated by the trustees, and agreed to by Mr. Jose.
He trusted the Hon. Member (Mr. Bernal) would be
satisfied with the testimony he (Sir R. Peel) had borne
to the services of Mr. Jose; but he must be excused
from being made a party to any increase of a salary
which had been accepted as an adequate compensation
for the duties of the office accepted by the party. These
things, moreover, were much better left to the discretion
of the trustees.

Mr. BERNAL wished it to be understood that he had
had no communication with the individual in question,
either directly or indirectly, in reference to this matter.
Mr. HUME said the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert
Peel) seemed to think that the question of salaries
should be left entirely to the trustees, who were re-
sponsible for the proper performance of their duties.
But to whom were these trustees responsible ? Not to
that House, nor to any one competent authority ; bnt,
simply to each other. The fact was,. the constitu-
tion of the board was not what the public wished or had
a right to expect. As long as it remained a close body,
a monopoly—there would be dissatisfaction. In refer-
ence to the subject introduced by the Hon. Member
(Mr. Bernal), he should feel it his duty to move for a
detail of certain salaries, and whether the recipients of
them held, other situations or not. He thought if the
Museum was kept open on Sunday i t would tend to
the greatest good, and prevent many persons from going
into public-houses and committing the greatest immo-
ralities on that day. Now, he could not conceive what
could be the objection on the part of the trustees, in not
making the improvements that had been pointed out for
several years. He did not see why children under eight
years of age should not be admitted. Another most
foolish thing was, that of compelling parties to write
their names, by which great inconvenience was occa-
sioned as crowds of persons were by that means col-
lected together.

Sir R. PEEL would not remonstrate against the Hon.
Gentleman's complaints, but the question was, were they
reasonable ? Now in the first place the trustees were
not responsible for these estimates, but the Treasury was.
There was not a return as to the duties of the officers of
the Museum, which the Hon. Gentleman chose to call
for, that he should not have ; and as to the complaints
of the trustees, he thought that the Hon. Member must
admit that such men as the Duke of Sutherland, Mr.
Hallam, and others, were not much calculated to adopt
any course that would be injurious to the institution.
So far from that, it was shown by the number of visit-
ors, that the rules laid down by them had been produc-
tive of great convenience, for in 1840 the number of
visitors was 247,000, while in 1843 they were 517,400.
The trustees, therefore, had so far succeeded in attracting
a greater number of visitors. Then, with respect to the
admission of children ; the age at which they should be
admitted ought to be limited, because it must be appa-
rent to every one, that children could receive no benefit
from attending them, although they could materially in-
terrupt the attention of others. The necessities they
relieved were anything but the necessities for acquiring
knowledge.—(Great laughter.) He could assure the
Hon. Gentleman, however, that the circumstance had
been brought under the attention of the trustees, and
there was every disposition to give all facilities to the
public.
Mr. PROTHEROE hoped that no excrescences
would be attached to the new building.—(Laughter.)
He alluded to the department of the library. He thought
it would be very unadvisable to make any present addi-
tions, for the time was approaching when there must be
an emigration of some part of the collection, either of
the statues or of the collection of natural history. He
wished that means could be taken to exhibit the draw-
ings and prints in the Museum, in the same manner as
the Duke of Devonshire exhibited his collection of
original drawings at Chatsworth. With regard to the
introduction of children into the Museum, it would be
painful to him to do anything that would lessen the
pleasures of this interesting portion of the species, but
from being often at Hampton Court, he was sorry to say
that the introduction of children there did not at all add
to the pleasure of grown gentlemen.—(Hear hear.)
At the same time he could not but pay a tribute of
praise to the exertions of the Hon. Member for Mon-
trose on all occasions to increase the facilities of access
to this national institution.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BERNAL said, there was a total want in this
country of one department that ought to form part of a
National Museum. There was not in this country any
collection of monuments illustrative of their national
history, nor of any specimens of the arts, implements,
or costumes of the middle ages. There was an abun-
dance of specimens of Egyptian art and manufacture, of
the arms and implements of the South Sea Islands, of
mineralogical and botanical productions, and of numis-
matic treasures. But of anything appertaining to the life
and history of the middle agcs,our artists,having no models
whatever to study from, were entirely ignorant. The
productions of their artists were thus disgraced by their
ignorance of this period ; thus it was that they might find
in modern paintings, Indian shields in Highland subjects,
and South Sea weapons in tableaux of European warfare.
In France, not only was great attention paid to this sub-
ject by the Government, but by the Municipality of Paris.
One of the best speciments of the style of building of the
middle ages, the Hotel de Cluni, had been purchased by
Louis Philippe, and the Municipality
.of Paris had
voted a large sum for its restoration.
Dr. BOWRING suggested that an easy and econo-
mical mode of adding to their national collection of
works of art and nature might be adopted by sending a
circular containing some simple instructions, to the
British diplomatic officers abroad, who, by very slight
exertions, might frequently make very valuable additions
to the Museum.

B.
Sir
PEEL said that specimens in mineralogy and
---
botany had been obtained by some of the Consuls abroad.
Within the last week the Treasury had authorised the
expenditure of 2,000/. for completing the zoological and
botanical catalogue of the collection made by the
Antarctic Expedition. The catalogues were to be com-
pleted by Mr. Brown, whose unobtrusive merit was not
sufficiently known, and who had been an associate of
Sir Joseph Banks.
DIA WiLIWURTON complained of the exclusion of

the public from the 74)ologic,nSfins n Stinday, the
day on which th e,naieiylprs o tyt atui.The Mem-
bers of that House' 0.114. d• ilmt“L ther,"Meatesnumbers.
Why should they deny 'the *righV to the public ?
No one could say that it would make them either less
moral or less religious. As to the exhibition of drawings
and prints in the Museum, it would require another
building, but it would be of great advantage to the public.
He hoped the lion. Member would not advise the
Trustees to take care of any new department ' • the great
fault was, that they undertook too much already.
Mr. WYSE suggested that if any new gallery were
added to the Museum it would not be confined to illus-
trations of one age only, but that it should embrace
those of several. He would also suggest to the Right
Hon. Baronet the propriety of providing a proper col-
lection of casts for the use of students and the public,
and of erecting a building for their reception. He be-
lieved there was already such a collection in Edinburgh,
and in Dublin a committee had been formed for the
purpose of forming a similar collection. There was,
however, some difficulty in finding a site for the gallery,
and he would suggest to the Government the propriety
of furnishing a site. He also thought there should be a
similar gallery here. When once the gallery was
erected the cost of the casts would be trifling. There
should also be a theatre for lectures, and it had been
suggested the gallery should be open to the public in the
morning and to students only in the evening.
Sir R. PEEL thought the subject was well worthy of
attention, and he could assure the Right Hon. Gentle-
man that the Government took great interest in the
question.
Lord J. MANNERS complained of the disgraceful
way in which some of our most ancient monuments were
defaced and destroyed by modern corporations, and
trusted the Government would exercise its influence to
shame these modern Goths and Vandals.

Mr. H(JME considered the answer of the Right Hon.
Baronet to his question was very unsatisfactory. The
British Museum was the only establishment in Europe
in which there were no conveniences for the accommo-
dation of the visitors. He believed the Right Hon.
Baronet visited the Museum on a Sunday, and why
would he not let every one avail himself of the same
privilege ?
Mr. BORTHWICK considered that, abstractedly, it
would be right that the Museum should be open on a
Sunday ; but he doubted whether such a proceeding
would be in accordance with the feelings of the great
body of the people. The cathedrals, however, ought to
be opened to the public on a Sunday—(Cheers)—instead
of being closed more rigidly against the public on that
day than any other. He was glad to know that in
Westminster Abbey one step had been taken towards
devoting the building to popular use—(Hear, hear)—but
he was sorry to find that at St. Paul's nothing had been
done.—(Hear, hear.) An Hon. Member had spoken of
the monuments of the middle ages. Many of the monu-
ments in these cathedrals were of no age, and those who
went to worship the figures which were seen sprawling
on the walls, might do so without committing any breach
of the second commandment ; for they resembled no-
thing in the heavens !above, in the earth beneath, or in
the waters under the earth.

Mr. HUTT asked whether persons could obtain casts
of the statues in the British Museum ?

Mr. lIUME said it ought to be generally known that
any persons might have casts of the works of art in the
British Museum by paying the expense of making them.
Dr. BOWRING hoped that some measures would be
adopted to procure an interchange with other nations of
casts of works of art.

The vote was then agreed to.
COMMISSARIAT.

Sir G. CLERK: In—moving the commissariat esti-
mates, said that there was a large increase in the esti-
mates for the commissariat this year, which arose from
the fact of a large sum, which used to appear partly in
the army estimates and partly in the ordnance esti-
mates, having been transferred to the commissariat.
The commissariat had always had the Charge of supply-
ing forage on foreign stations to the troops. The esti-
mates for those supplies had formerly appeared partly
in the army estimates, partly in the ordnance estimates,
and partly in the commissariat estimates. This had led
to a complication of accounts, and it had been considered
that it would be, on the whole, better that the depart-
ment which had the charge of providing the articles
should also estimate the funds that would be required.
On this account, in the present year, there was an in-
crease of 232,0001, which had been transferred from the
army and ordnance' to the commissariat estimates. The
Hon. Baronet then moved that a sum of 436,000 L be
voted for the expenses of the commissariat department.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE thought it would be well for
the chairman to report progress, inasmuch as the Right
Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department
had given notice of his intention to introduce a new Fac-
tories Bill that night. Now there was every reason to-
believe that this Bill would give rise to some discussion,
and therefore he (Mr. Duncombe) thought it ought not
to be introduced after eleven o'clock.

Sir J. GRAHAM said he should be very happy to
bring on the Bill to which the Hon. Gentleman referred
at once. As, however, his statement would be but a short
one, he did not think it necessary to adjourn the Com-
mittee so early.
Mr. HUME thought the observation of the Hon.
Member for Finsbury deserved some attention. The Bill
which was about to be introduced by the Right Hon.
Baronet was a very important one, and the public would
naturally be very anxious to know what was the diffe-
rence between the eld and new Bills. He thought they
might agree to the vote then before the House, and then
report progress.
After a short communication the vote was agreed to.
A sum of 46,682 L was voted for the half-pay of the
commissarat department.
A sum of 18,407,8301. was voted to pay off Exchequer
Bills.

The CHAIRMAN reported progress-' and asked leave to
sit again. The House then resumed.

METROPOLITAN BUILDINGS BILL.

The Earl of LINCOLN moved that the Bill be read a
second time.
Mr. HUME wished to ask the Noble Lord whether
he intended to refer it to a Committee up stairs.
The Earl of LINCOLN did not propose to refer
it to such a Committee.
The Bill was then read a second time.
FACTORIES BILL.

On the motion for proceeding with the Order of the
Day on the Factories Bill being put,

Sir JAMES GRAHAM said tl4,t the House would
remember that in the early part of the evening the
Bill which he had introduced in the early part of the
session was withdrawn, by permission of the House ;
and he believed the opinion of the House was pretty ge-
neral that he should have leave to introduce another Bill
on the subject. Having, on the former occasion, entered
at length into the subject, he was not prepared at the
present moment to trespass on the attention of the House.
At the same time it was right to state to the
House what was the precise nature of the Bill.
The Bill which was withdrawn was a Bill which re-
pealed all former Acts regulating employment in facto-
ries. The Bill which he now introduced repealed none
' of the former laws on the subject, but it introduced
certain amendments. Speaking generally the amend-
ments he introduced into the present Bill were amend-
ments recommended by the Committee which sat on the
subject in 1840. The Bill which ho introduced pro-
vided that children between the ages of eight and eleven
should not be employed in any factory in the manufac-
ture of silk, for a longer period than six hours and a-
half, and between the ages of eight and thirteen, for a
no longer period in the manufacture of cottons, wool-
lens, and flax ; and further, that six hours and a-half
should not be extended over the forenoon and afternoon
of the same day, but should be confined to either. In
those factories where children worked ten hours, it was
provided by the Government measure that they should
work for that period on alternate days—that if they
worked ten hours on one day they should not work at all
on the next. He proposed an alteration in the exist-
ing law, respecting surgeons' certificates. At pre-
sent surgeons could only grant certificates as far
as appearances were concerned, but he proposed
that the surgeon should certify as to the health of the
child, and whether or no it was fitted for the employ-
ment proposed. In accordance with the recommenda-
tions of the Committee, he proposed that proper guards
should be put upon machinery—that it should be boxed
up so as to present accidents. It was further proposed
that all accidents, without reference to age, should be
report-'d to the inspector, and that the Secretary of State
should be empowered to direct prosecutions against the
owners of factories when accidents occurred by ma-
chinery through the proper guards being wanting. It
was further proposed that the damages obtained in such
actions might be awarded to parents and guardians. It
was proposed for the first time (and not in pursuance of
any recommendation of the Committee) that females
should not work for a longer time than that at present
allowed for young people. He had thus briefly stated
the provisions which the Bill contained, and would not
at present further detain the House.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE thought the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet might have saved himself the trouble of intro-
ducing the present Bill, which would leave things just
as they were, and repeal no grievance. The Right Hon.
Baronet might have made his statement much shorter.
How fur this Bill would be satisfactory to the House
and to the country time would determine. He thought
the Right Hon. Baronet was fully justified in the course
he had pursued, for it was quite clear that those Hon.
Members who were opposed to him on one evening were
prepared to support him on the next.—(Hear hear.) The
people of England, at all events, should not be deluded.
It was quite clear that the advantages which the Noble
Lord gained on a former evening were lost. The Right
Hon. Bart. told the House there was not any chance of
relief in limiting the hours of labour ; he managed the
matter most dexterously. Three times the House had
told the people of England that their women and chil-
dren should not be worked more than ten hours ; but
they were to continue in a state of slavery. Redress from
the Government or that House had proved to be hope-
less; the matter must be left for public agitation and to
the Times newspaper. At a future time they would
have some " sham moves," but he believed he might say
that the Noble Lord would never again obtain such support
as he had already obtained. The Noble Lord's forces were
completely abandoned, and he wished the Right Hon.
Baronet joy of the triumph he had achieved, but he sin-
cerely condoled with these poor people who were still
doomed to slavery and hardship.—(Hear, hear.) He
hoped that the House would not sanction the principles
of the Bill introduced by the Hon. Baronet the Secre-
tary for the Home Department.
Mr. HUME objected to this Bill upon the'very princi-
ples urged in its favour by the Government, but still he
should reserve for a future occasion, his general reasons
for voting against it. He would advise the Right Hon.
Gentleman to reconsider this Bill, and not be led away
by misrepresentations, and to consider well before they
should at all trench upon the free and unshackled exer-
cise of labour. He believed the Right Hon. Baronet •
was wrong in the principles of his Bill, and that he
ought, instead of introducing it, to have appointed a
Committee who: would hear evidence and make a report