The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-06 00:00:00

THE WEST INDIES.

Sir A. L. HAY gave notice that he would, on Thursday,
put a question to the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Co-
lonies to know whether it was the intention of her Majesty's
Government to afford greater facilities for the introduction of
Chinese and other Asiatic labourers into the West Indies I
DUTIES ON MANUFACTURES.
Mr. EWART gave notice that on Thursday week he would
move for a repeal of the duties which press upon manufactures ;
and also those which tend to encourage smuggling.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. WILLIAMS rose to move, " That no motion, if op-
posed, shall be brought on and discussed in this House after
midnight." The Hon. Member said it was not his intention
to interfere with those long party discussions which so often
occupied the time of the House to a very late and unseasonable
hour. He wished to confine his motion simply to the practical
business of the House, and he thought it must be evident to
every Hon. Alember who had been in the habit of paying at-
tention to that subject, that the bringing forward of impor-
tant questions at a very late hour of the night was not only
most inconvenient, but highly detrimental to public in-
terest.—( Hear, hear.) The general system of trans-
acting public business was in many respects most
objectionable, and important alterations ought to be made
—and, in fact, must be made, before the business could
be conducted in a manner beneficial to the country. On re-
ferring to the proceedings of last session, he found that the
House had sat 119 nights. During those 119 nights the House
sat 1055 hours after midnight, being nearly one hour after mid-
night for each sitting. He had often seen, for want of some
regulation of this kind, business of the greatest possible im-
portance forced upcn the consideration of the House at one or
two o'clock in the morning, sometimes even later ; he had seen,
in defiance of every remonstrance, measures brought forward at
those hours which affected most materially the rights, the liber-
ties, the lives, and the property of the people of this country.
He had also seen, in defiance of all remonstrance, millions of
the public money voted away without any consideration what-
ever, as to the existence of any necessity for such amounts to
the public interest of the country. At these unseasonable
hours he had seen gentlemen coming in to vote on important
questions affecting the lives, properties and liberties of the
people, from their balls, their theatres, their operas, and their
parties, and voting without any knowledge whatever as to whe-
ther those measures were good or bad, with regard to the interests
of the country. Stich a state of things ought to be corrected,
and there was no other means of doing so than limiting the
hours of business to something like reasonableness. He had
no objection to the debates between the two great parties in
that House—one anxious to obtain power, and the other

. .
anxious to keep it—being continued, as he had often witnessed,
till twilight peeped through the windows of the House, and
Members returned home, from what they call their
duties, by the light of the rising sun. But be did
object to public business being carried on at these hours.
Nature intended that Hon. Members, instead of wasting their
strength in that House, should refresh themselves by sleep.
The Right Hon. Baronet opposite smiled.—(Laughter.) He
was quite ready to bear his testimony to the Right Hon.
Baronet's attendance in that House, as well as that of the
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government. 'they
were to be found in their places at the earliest and latest hours,

and they certainly displayed an amount of physical strength that
often astonished him —( Hear, and laughter.) But he thought
a little more attention to their health and comfort, would be an
advantage. They might, at present, be able to attend to their
duties, but a time might come when their strength would fail
them ; and when these late hours would tell on their strength,
and the duration of their lives. If the good of the country were
consulted in these late hours, they might be tolerated, but the
reverse was the fact. Laws were passed when Hon. Members
were fast asleep, or in such a state of drowsiness
that they hardly knew what they were about. The intention
of the Reform Bill was, that instead of Hon. Members coming
down at midnight, they should come there in a state of perfect
sobriety: When he saw the time of the House consumed in
passing Acts to explain and amend other Acts of Parliament,
which if Hon. Members had not enacted at those unseasonable
hours, such a state of things would never have taken
place, he must say that it was discreditable to the
House. By keeping those unseasonable hours, when
they ought to be asleep, they passed laws which
were neither understood by Hon. Members themselves,
nor by the judges who were to administer them. There was
no country in Europe which adopted such an unreasonable course
of proceeding; and yet, notwithstanding their late hours, many
of the grievances of the country were not redressed. Let
them look at the state of matters which Ireland presented.
Now what were the complaints and what were the grievances
of the people of Ireland ? The Hon. Member for Cork, the re-
presentative of all Ireland, had often stated in that House that
one of the great grievances of Irelandras, that the same law
was not applied to that country which was applied to England;
he thought the laws for Ireland and England ought to be pre-
cisely the same.—( Hear, hear.) If they consulted in that
House the wants and wishes of the people, one-third of the
time of the House would be saved.—(Hear, hear.) He had
no doubt that during the present session, one-fourth of
the time of that House would be consumed upon two ,
questions—the grievances of Ireland, and the corn.laws.
It must be apparent to every one that the grievances of Ire-
land must be redressed, or that country would become a curse
instead of a blessing to England.—( Hear, hear.) It. was evi •
dent, also, that the corn-laws must be put an end to. Why,
then, he would ask, were not some measures adopted
in order to settle those two questions? The people
called upon them loudly to do so ; and if they
resisted that appeal, the worst results might be expected. He
believed that if these two questions were settled that one-fourth
of the time of the House would be saved. He advised Minis-
ters also to bring forward measures they intended to proceed
with at an early period of the session, and he entreated
them to discontinue the practice of bringing on Bills
which were never intended to be proceeded with.
It must be apparent to every member that much of the time of
the House had been consumed by discussing Bills that never
were intended to be passed into a law. Since he had had a seat
in'that House, from four to five months of the cession had been
wasted upon all manner of i Ile debates—( Loud cheers from the
Ministerial side of the House)—upon questions in which the
public took no interest. In the session of 1840, gentlemen on
the other side of the House consumed nearly the whole of that
session in the most idle, and, as regarded the public interest, the
most worthless motions—not worthless to them, because their
object 'was to get hold of place, power, and pelf,
No doubt the gentlemen who sat behind the Treasury Bench
had, as well as those wko sat on that Bench, derived consi-
derable advantage from the change, but that change
had produced no advantage to the people of this coun-
try. How had the time of the House been consumed dur-
ing the last session? Parliament had met on the 3d of Fe-
bruary, and during the months of February, March, April,
and- May they had passed 26 Bills ; during the month of
June they had passed 10 Bills; and during the month of July
20 Bibs, while in the three first weeks of the month of August,
during which alone the House had sat, forty-four Bills had
been sent up to the other House. Was that a proper mode of
conducting bu,iness ? No one could defend that system. The
House of Lords would, while the present party was in power,
pass any Bids which they might think proper to seed up, but
under the late Government a certain legal Lord had thrown
bundles upon bundles of Bil's under the table, upon the plea t hat
they had beensent up at too late a period of the session to have
proper consideration given to them. He hoped that the state-
ment which he had made would satisfy the majority of the
House—( laugh )—that it would be greatly con-
ducive to the health of the Members, and to the interests of
the country, that they should legislate for the people
during hours when their mental faculties were in a proper state
of astivity and clearness, and not when they were muddled.—
( A laugh.) The Hon. Member concluded by proposing the
motion of whic,k he had given notice.
Mr. BROTHERTON seconded the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could hardly
persuade himaelf that the Honourable Gentleman was
in earnest in making such a proposition to the House.
He gave the Hon. Gentleman every credit for his anxiety with
regard to the health of the Members of the House, but it was
not so much the discussing of matters at a late hour of the
night which was prejudicial to their health, but the being
obliged to hear long speeches at early and late hours.—
(Cheers.) When Hon. Gentlemen got up upon all subjects
and treated them with dissertations on the corn.laws and
Ireland, it produced a degree of lassitude which was
most injurious.—( Loud cheers and laughter.) When
the earlier portion of the night was occupied in
discussing useless subjects, it rendered it necessary
for them to sit up fate to forward the public busi-
ness. Unless they sat up late for the purpose, they would
have no opportunity of doing any business at all. The
Hon. Gentleman complained of the inattention and haste with
which they discussed public measures, and he said that
' while they passed twenty-six Bills only in the first part
of the session, they passed a considerable number of Bills at the
end. But Hon. Gentlemen who took up the time of the House
in discussing useless subjects were the cause of this. The dis-
cussion of many Bills was frequently put off at the request of Hon.
Gentlemen themselves, who wished to consult their constituents.
would be found that those debates, which occupied the time
of the House after twelve o'clock, were those which were begun
before that hour. There might be occasions where
great public interests required that public measures should
be introduced and discussed at any hour,_ how-
ever late, and he thought that the House would act in
the manner most conducive to the public interests, by not eon.
sentirtg to a specific resolution of this kin.i. He had no fear of
their health being injured so long as they had the Hon. Gen-
tl 9-nan opposite amongst them (Mr. Brotherton), who watched
over the early hours of the House with so much amenity and
consideration.—(Cheers.) So long as he might remain a
Member of this House he was sure they would nut waste their
time or their constitutions in the way so dreaded by the Hon,
Member for Coventry.--( Hear, hear. )
Mr. BROTHERTON ro.e, and there was general cheering
from all sides of the House. The Hon. Gentleman said he
should trouble the House only with a word or two, The
Hon. Member for Coventry had seen the very poor success
which had attended his- (Mr. Brotherton's) efforts en
this subject, and had kindly come forward with his
powerful aid, and he trusted that he would have a
to
orgcoemr minority
H
toesuidipid thinkorthim
than
nat i f h eh
adhitherto been able
Honourable Friend stere carried it thewoliV"bael of
fouhnids
exceedingly usefutl, and that if they adjourned re-
gularly at early hours they would materially facili-
tate the business of the House, and do no injury to the
public interests. The remarks -vvhich had fallen from the
Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, brought to his mind an anecdote of Queen Eliza-
beth. That good Queen had, on one occasion, sent {
down a message to her faithful Commons, admonishing them
not to consume so much time in long speeches and useless mo-
tions.—(Loud cheers and laughter.) If the right good Queen
of the present day were to send down a similar message to
that House—( Loud cheers)—no one would deny its limos
priateness, and, for his owe part, he should be the first to join
in a vote of thanks to her Majesty for her most gracious
communicatinn,—(Loud cheers.) He was sure there
were many speeches delivered in that House that might be
usefully curtailed, and many motions brought forward that they
would have lost nothing had they never heard of.—(Cheers.)
For his own part, he seldom troubled the House with
motions—( Hear, hear)—and he was not aware that he had ever
made any long speeches—(Cheers)—and i 0 supporting the
present motion, he did so because he thought it ought to be
carried, though Hon. Members had the remedy in their own
hands if they chose to adopt it. Hon. Illembers in that
House often talked of the wisdom of their ancestors,
but they seemed to forget that those ancestors
always did their work by
nay-light. He had a sug-
estion to make, which thought might be
usefully acted opensft was that the House should not sit after twelve o'clock, uule

eighty Members were present. 'nil-it—id threw out th ,
gestion, he considered it perfectly useless to atttetipt to
out as the House was then constituted. He would therefore
null
support the resolution of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Willialr at,
though of course he knew too well from past experienceo tOOO
excellent as the proposition would be in practice, the
would not sanction it.

The House then divided, when there appeared--
For the motion
Against it
,
Majority against the motion „,r ••.........
METROPOLITAN POLICE.
Mr. TUFNELL rose to move for a Select Committee los
quire into the cost of the Metropolitan Police Force, 12..A0n
manner in which the sums levied as police rates are asse"ii ie.
the different parishes within the Metropolitan Police MS A,'
In moving for this Committee, he thought it right to statise7ol
he had no intention of calling for an inquiry into the eon ket
the New Police. The House knew that accusations of weLpi
had gone forth against the body, and at its first establish!by
the force did not give satisfaction. The Rieht Holowittie
Baronet, when introducing the Police• Bill, had said that the
or no increase of [expense would arise to each district frollleld
formation of the police force, but that life and property 71
i; 0
receive additional security from it. He would show, i°, are.
places, there had been no additional security to life. an rs-•
perty, while the rate had been doubled. He thought h;., to
Justified in saying that the new police had given no seenfrrol 0A
property.—( Hear, hear.) When a change was made • bit.
local to a central one, the House was bound to protect local rifddi.
The Bill had been passed under the pretence that Igight
tional burdens would be imposed upon the parishes. Th sed oo
Hon. Baronet had stated so, the Bill had been propc, been
that condition, and on that condition opposition hannwity
avoided, and yet year after year these burdens had. begoftlo
creased. The parishioners did complain of the adoptoa.,...ii,
central system • but the complaint was that the express wri,i,
tion upon which'
the Bill had been passed had been el°,llta
rr
and that the rates had been nearly doubled. The rates of
most heavily not upon the rich, but upon the pnerernd,
rate-payers. He held in his hand a report of Mr. 7; the
the Commissioner of City police, who stated that seltosi
City police cost only 761. per head, the Maryleboner 11'.`ois
1 1201. per head. This was a state of things which reqge ja'
remedy. Before he concluded, he would refer to . ,lis
equality of the assessments of the different parishes. 11.
Act of 1836, the poor-rate had been assessed at the net 'or
but this was rendered useless, because it was not wad," Oro
pulsory to adopt that mode of valuation. If the Rig-, ,rO.
Gentleman read the report, he would soon perceive sel_l2l.:Boti,
inequalities existed with regard to the as '"*-1,10.
He found in many parishes that the burdens were most se„ali
He thought, therefore, there was ground for the motion 11070,
he made. He had no intention of finding fault with the
missioners of Police. What he desired to see was, theb•iste
lotions of the Police Bill, when it was carried, broukh.ll,
effect. On that occasion the author of the Bill tide
Peel) said that ultimately no increased burden wujii 1111
thrown upon the parishes. He (Mr. Tufnell) th°lli ay
Government ought to be able to maintain an efficien' %obit
force without such heavy expenses, and without dangers.
to the peace of the country, or the liberty of the subjec,.., jot/
Mr. MANNERS SUTTON said it would not be for or
to trouble the House at any length with his reasons {f OF
posing this motion. Before, however, he folloimobei
Hon. Gentleman through the remarks he had made, he bi hil
to express the satisfaction he felt, that he did Doti - cio the
motion, mean to cast any imputation upon the efficienei,,ilo
conduct of the police: force itself. With regard,
motion of the Hen. Gentleman. The first jartsuesa)
referred to the cost of the police force. He Ole' tor°
nail re oil
was sure he must be perfectly aware that an an- d ,
of the expenses of the police force was printed a° ow,
upon the table of that House, and which „°e ow
the whole of the information he professed to seek. rose'
not therefore ground his motion et: the ignorance of “1,11,01
upon this portion of his subject ; and he did not 11,:`,- ilt
support it by any charge or accusation against the Pn"'"':rfeat
had he done so he (Mr. Sutton) should have been cto r,
prepared to meet him, and to prove any such charge fe ~
without foundation. For this purpose he should Fa 1854,L.
great aid iu the Report of the Committee which sat iw ow'
the Metropolitan Force, and which reported then, .07( 0
in the 710 tO
vourable terms of it. They stated that subsequeot4,l, Om'
passing of that Act the cost of watching the bolensp J.,17.
doubled. But the Hon. Member must remember 1007
whole principle of the Police Act was based on this, tere:4
borough was watched beyond the mere limits of l,t'
number of policemen might and would be Fsiliostel;..
at any moment on application to the Coil. elk'
The Hon. Gentleman had stated that the metropolitays WY,'
before the passing of the Police Act, were an efficienvitir
He admitted that that was the case, but he utterly der°
01
sack
they would be so now if the present system was ,Irt•
_, if
With regard to the question of assessment, that aguJebcAieve'sj
escaped the attention of the Committees, and be
it algoi'ilt
formed no ground for acceding to the motion. ne,:teine
to the House that there was, in fact, no ground 110
assenting to the motion. e°
Mr. BROTHERTON thought it very hard thatthe
_A- ice. A
should be taxed for the support of the metropolitan Iw'sine r
After a few words from` Mr. TUFNELL, the °°3 , •
. 0
negatived, without a division.
The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to hrig
risbrn
Bill " to facilitate the disjoining or dividing of p.oril°
and the erecting of new parishes in Scotland.
.AIV
SICK POOR. Orel'.
Lord ASHLEY said he rejoiced to state that her° inst .0
Government had expressed to him their intention be led,
posing his motion, which stood on the paper, an for anti,
now, therefore, content himself merely by moving_pio,',4
Committee "to inquire into the mode wl. ''''°3l 'Ol
medical relief to the sick poor."—Agreed to. eteb.:4o
Mr. S. O'BRIEN moved for " a return
unions in England and Wales in which no chapl"° $
e 0010 r
appointed on the Ist day of January last, and the
inmates in such unions at that. period."—Ordered. i
SUPPLY. Coe
Sir G. CLERK brought up the report of the . JO
Supply, which was received.
_a f' s'
The other Orders of the Day were then dispoaw- o
House adjourned at Seven o'clock. of the °tad st