The Sun.
London, England, 1826-02-09 00:00:00

THE DUDE PAPERS.

A Generfl Court of Proprietors was held yes-
terday, at the Caratitiny's House in Leadenhall-street, for the
purpose of taking into considerntion a motion of which General
Sit John Doyle lttl, given notice on the subject of the (Jude
Papers.
After the minutes of the last Court had been read, •
The CHAIRMAN informed the Proprietors, that there was
laid before them a return of the Company's shipping, of every
description, up to the 21st of last December, containing the
Olnnes of the shipe—the tpount of tonnage of each—the names
'Ofthe commanders—also an account of the number of ships
employed by the Company since 1813—the rate of tonnage—
and the number and expellee of the voyages made by each.
Captain .11AXFIE1.D asked whether these papers were to be
seen in the Proprietors' room?
Gen. TsionsTox suggested that they should be printed.
Capt. MAXFIELD made a 1110tillit to that effect, Which' was
`seconded by Dr. Gilchrist.
The CHAIRMAN informed the lion. Proprietors that such a
motion would be irregular. This was a Special Colin, and no
motion could be discussed in ik except those fur which it had
been made special, unless notice had been given at the last
Court.
Capt. MAxrIELD said, he made the motion merely to save
trouble at a future day.
The CH:unman (after some few remarks froM Gen. Thorn-'
ton and Dr. Gilchrist on tlie subject) repeated' his first obser-
Nation, that the forms of the Court did not allow of the motion
On this occasion.
The CIIAIRMAN then informed the Court of the motionto
consider the (Jude Papery, for which they had been specially
assembled, and the requititioe to det effect having been read
by the Clerk,
Sir JOHN DOYLE rose. lie observed, that before he en-
tered upon the business of the day, it might be necessary to
release the. minds al' gentlemen present from' fears. which the
great magnitude of the papers before the Court Might create,
of having their attention occupied for a considerable length of
time. Seeing such a huge volume of documents before them,
they. might naturally think of the immense mass of' papers
which they had to consider some time back ; he meant the
" Hydrabad paperi." There was, however; this difference be-
tween the circumstances attending those papers and the docu-
ments at present before the Court—on the former occasion there
Was a wide difference of opinion in the Court—on the present
the Court would, he had no doubt, be unanimous. In order tom
full understanding of the present subject, it would be necessary
to revert to the circumstances under which these (Jude papers
came before the public. When the Marquis of Hantinge had
resigned the Government of„ India, and was on his passage
home to England, he thought the leisure afforded him during
the voyage a good opportunity of throwing together the lead-
ing featurett of his administration, in order to lay the account-
before his honourable employers, and thus. to give them a re,
turn of the manner in which lie had executed the trust reposed
in him. This statement was drawn up while the facts to
which it referred were fresh in his recollection, though with,
oat access to the original documents. On his arrival iu 1..2g.
land, it was sent to the Court of Directors, who (and he did
not now impute any blame to them on that account) not think-
ing it of an official nature (as the Noble Lord was out of office),
did not receive it in that way will& would make it a matter of
record with them. The Noble Lord, after this, showed it 'to
some of his friends, who requested him to have it published.
But he refused, until, about to leave the country for a distant
state, he left it to them, and they were, after some time, induced
• to publish it by circumstances which he would not then men.
Lion. Not long afterwards, it happened that an Hon. Director
(Colonel Heinle), had occasion to give evidence before a Com-
mittee of the House of Commons on a subject connected with
India, and part of that evidence was so much at variance with
the statement given in the expo of the Noble Lord, that an
Hon. Baronet; a Member of thellouse, was induced to call for
explanation on the subject. This was, as it appeared to him,
done in kindness to the Hon. Director, and in order to give
him an opportunity of making out a case, if he could do so, in
support of his evidence. The explanation was given by the
production of the immense Volume betare them. And now one
question was, whose was that hook ? The Hon. Director
(Colonel Millie) had, at the last Gotta, denied it to be his. It ,
could not be that of the Marquis of Beatings, as he was out of
the country; but he begged to ask the Hon. Deputy Chairman
whether it was his?

The Deputy Chairman (Sir Grottox RoulnsoN) said, that
f the Gallant General's questions went to the whole of the
papers contained in the boiik, he would answer that it was not
his. He had one object in view only in those parts of It for
which he would personally answer—namely, the statement on
the subject of the loans to the Company from the Nawab Vi-
zier of Oude. It had been asserted that these loans were vo.
luntary on the part of the Nawah,iind to mark the gratitude he
felt to the Noble Marquis for having relieved him from the
thraldom in which he it'd been held by his predecessor. Ile
would answer for the production of those documents which re.
lated to that loan, but for the other parts he would not answer,
as he would not for the matters referred to have incurred the
expence of printing. He said thus much in answer to the
Gallant General's question ; but he would, if gesasion re.
quired, state his opinion more at large in the coursef the dis-
cussion, as to why he felt justified in wishing the publication of
three parts of the documents.
Sir J. Dorvz continued.' Ha had, he could assure the
Hon. Deputy Chairman, acquitted him in his own mind, of
'having given any sanction to the printing of the whole of those
papers. He would now revert to the mutton which he intended
to submit to the Court, connected with those napers. He would
divide the subject into two parts—that, that which referred to
the loan by the Nawab Vizier; and next, as to the removal of
Colonel 'Lillie from his situation as resident at Lucknow.—
One word, however, before he entered into the Subject. lle
could not avoid expressing his disapprobation at seeing among
those documents (in the part fur which:he supposed they were
indebted to the Hon. Director Colonel Millie), copies of docu-
mente which he (Colonel Male) must have received, not as
a private individual, but Mobil; OffiCial capacity—a proceeding
which he thought altogether unjustifiable. Now as to the loan.
When the Marquis of 'listings left the seat of government
in India, in order to carry on the Nepeul war, he hail suer-
tained that the Company's finance* were in a bad state; and
for the truth of the assertion that they were so, he would ep-
peal to those who were best acquainted with the financial affirtra
sf India at that period. It was suggested as a resource by
which the Company might be assisted, that application for
pecuniary assistance should be made to -the Nawab Vizier of
Mle. The Noble Marquis approved of this, hut felt
that there would be a delicacy m doing it, as the Newel)
had but recently till receded to the dI
usnud. II ow ever,
he lidded, that Ice should be determined by what he should
",ea, nn his bi,s, arrival at the residence of that Prince. On the
11th of smcember, 11114 (we believe), he arrived at (awn.
pore. A visit of ceremony was made the next day, and-re-
turned the day after. At these nothing was done • but on the
next day, the Nawab, in the presence of Major 'Rickets and
Captain INPLeod, made an other to the Governor-General, for
the use of the Company, of a crore of rupees (about one nil!.
lion sterling), and entreated that it might be accepted, not as a
loan, but as a free gift. Ile stated title not merely on the au.
thority or the Gentleman he had named, but on that of Colonel
Baillie himself, who, though he was not present when this
offer was made, alluded to it in a letter which he afterwards
wrote to the Cioverement Secretary, as having been mentioned
to him at that time. The gallant General here read an extract
of the letter, in whit h Colonel Bernie mentioned what had been
said about the offer of the crone of rupees as a free gift. The
point (Sir John Doyle continued) to which this end other ex.
mama tended, would be this—to show the question it issue
between the Honourable Director (Colonel itaillie) Pt& the
Noble Marquis; the Noble Marquis having described thin offer
of the first crore as a Voluntary act on the part of the Nawab,
while the gallant Colonel i,,,serted that it was obtained with
considerable difficulty, and, to Met bisown words, that it came
(ruin him like so matiy drops of blond. Now, he would show
from those papers, that the statement of the Noble Marquis
was that which could ha borne cut by the facts. ,The gallon
officer here requested that several ext. acts from the immense
volume of documents before the C urt might be read, and
they were ticeordirtgly read by the ark. To give the tithe of
them would swell tide account CO exto Vat present incon.
intent, ant very much beyond what the importenet of the
point at issue requires. It will seine° to soy, therefore, that
they consisted of' passages fro.. lette sof the Vizier to the
Governor-GeLerel, with nn t ffer of a second crore of rupees,
in which he talked of their 11,:viaiieo separate interests, and
his great desire to assist the Company; also of peones of let-
ters from Colonel Paillie, in which he spoke of the readiness
of the Nawab to give nO lace of rupees (heir a million sterling)
by way of gift ; and likewise of a letter from the Marquis of
"flutings to the Directors in -September last, inclosing a state-
ment of Mr. Rickets, in -both of which there was a distinct
denial of any reluctanw on the part of the Nawab iii grant.
ing the first loan. The gallant officer next referred to a
letter riddressed by' Colonel llaillie to the Secretary, Joseph
Dart, Esq., in 1023, in which ha stated; that so far 'was the
Nawab front offering a toluntiry crore of rupees or any
other 'sum to Lord Hastings for the Company's use, that it
was at his (Colonel ;;sillies) e 'meat solicitation, and with
great reluctance, that the money had been advanced at all.
"he next extract was front a minute of the Supreme Council
in India, in whith they expressed their_ entire approbation
of the " voluntary offer" of a crore of rupees from the
Newel); and another extract from tl s proceedings of the
Court of Directors at home, showed that the transactions with the
Nawab were approved, and in which.the first loan was recog,

hired as a voluntary offer (for the second was never represented
by Lord Hastings in any other light than as the result of ne-
gociation.) He had now called the attention of the Court to
documents suflicent to prove whet be had set out with assert.
ing__that the first loan was voluntary. lie had shewn that it
was so recognized and approved by the Supreme Council in
India, and by the Directors at home. He would beg their at.
tendon to another document of a.curious kind; one in which he
thought there was a direct attack on the proceedings not only of
the Governor-general in Council ,but also on those of the Directors.
This was a confidential letter from Col. Bindle, dated March 2,
1015, at Lucknow, to Mr: Adam, the Secretary to the Go.
vernor-General, in which he asks him, " Have you seen. all
my letters to Rickets (another secretary) on the vexatious
subject of the extortion from the Vizier ?" had beard it
said, that we held India by the Government of opinion. He
believed we did by the opinion of our strength, andhe hoped
we should be able to prove it, now that it wits in some degree
tried ; but he had hoped that we also held it by the opinion
entertained by the native princes of our honour and integrity ;
now what, he begged to ask, would be their opinion of the
justice of our Government abroad, or the honesty of that at
home, when they heard from our own Resident at a Native
Court such an avowal its this, what would they think, at
leering from the mouth of one of our own officers, that we
had taken advantage of our strength to extort large aunts from
a prince our ally, who had not the means' to assist us ? If,
however, there was extortion in the case, (which lie denied)
what must be thought of the gallant Colonel, who was, ac-
cording to his • own account, the promoter of it ? But what
must that Court think at having a proceeding which their
rectors had approved, branded with the name of extortion ? The
gallant Generalthen adverted to the circumstance of Colonel.
Baillie having published many. letters addressed to him nri- '
vately. It was, he observed, 'stud that these were public letters
—he it to : they were public or airivate, takeit either wa y. If
public, what right had an individual to remove from an office
which he had left such documents ? He did not wish to say an
uncivil thing, but the term which would be applied in common
life would not be a legal one for the purpose of discussion. If
they were private letters, they were ten times .worse, anti the
epithet that would be applied to such a course would nut be a
grateful one to any man of delicate feeling. lie would not, at
present, trespass further on the Court. fle had, he thought,
said enough to show, that the light in which the Marquis of
Hastings viewed the first loan as a voluntary offer on the
part
of the Nawab Vizier Was a just one, and was clearly proved by
the documents befine the Court. He would now move a few
resolutions, reserving to himself (when this motion should be
disposed of) to MOW: another set founded on these papers, and
connected with the dismissal of the gallant Colonel front his si.
tuation as resident at Lusknow. lie then moved-a.
" That It appears to this Court, that the first loan obtained
by the Governor-General in 1814, was voluntarily offered to
hint by his Excellency the Vizier.
" That the second loan was obtained by negociation, after a
candid explanation of the financial eniburremsments under
which the Government of Bengal -at that time labtiured, and
was never otherwise represented by the Governor-General.
• " That this Court approves of the terms in which the Court
of Directors conveyed its approbation of both transactions."
alr. 11 u tiE seconded the motion.
Colonel IlattAix, after complimenting the gallant Mover
on the general candoui of his tone, though mixed with sonic
little vituperation, expressed his desire to _lmitate his candour
and to be as brief as the nature of the case would admit. lie
then entered into a detail of the circumstance,i which led to
his examination before a Committee of the House of Coin.
mons in 11122. That Committee was appointed to 'inquire
into some allegations contained in a petition respecting debts
due to the Nawab of Gude by the Company, and lie lied the
honour to be a member of it. lit the Conunatee it was pro-
posed to him to give evidence ; but lie declined, and expressed
his utter reluctance to being called upon to disclose confiden,
tial communications made to him in the discharge of his public
duty. The committee, however, overruled his objection, and
he was compelled to submit to their authority. The first
question proposed to him by the Counsel attending for one of
the parties was—whether some time after the accession of the
Nawab Vizier, an application had not been Made through him
(Colonel Millie) for a loan of a million of money P This
question was objected to by one of the Learned Counsel at-
tending, anti (Oat the Committee had been cleared upon it) it
was put to him in another shape, viz. whether, in consequence
of communications made byhini to the Vizier, he had not found
hiM reluctant to lend money to the Company ? His answer to
that question required some detail, and he gave it to this effect
—that on the occasion of the Vizier's accession, an intimation
was made to hint (Colonel Mollie) of his disposiiion to make
a grant or douceur to the Company, in consideration of the
assistance received from them. To this he replied, that no
such thing wits desired by the Company, and that they bad no
wish for any part of the Vizier's wealth. Subsequently, on
his calling on him, end representing the exigencies of, the
Company, the Nawab naturally asked why this wait not made
known on his accession, when the Company might have had as
much as they wished i to which he replied that the exigency did
not then exist, anti was not even in contemplation—but that
the Nepaul war had caused this exigency. In answer to other
question, the Gallant Colonel observed, that he had expressed
Iris opinion that the Vizier, heing a Alusaulman, anti not al-
lowed by his religion to take interest On Money lent, would
have a reluctance to make die advance•requirett. Ile then
went on to contend, that his assertions before the Committee
were borne out by time facte. In stating that the loan was. not
voluntary, he did not mean to any that it was compulsory, as
opposed to the term voluntary ; but that it wits so tar not vo.
.luntaty, inasmuch as it was obtained by repeated application,
and by persuasion. lie lied no intention of attempting to cast
any dtscredit on Lord linetinga's statement: the Noble Lord
having important acts of his public life to recollect, might
easily omit some of the circumstances connected with this loan ;
but that they could not be so easily omitted by him (Colonel
Bailliej, whose actions in public life were comparatively so few,
and so humble, amid particularly when his memory was re-
freshed on the subject by the cross-examination of counsel.—
But lie mitt say that the discrepancy between the Noble
Lord's statement and his (Colonel IBaillje's) evidence was
not what was to be looked to, so much as the discrepancy
between it and the printed documents now before the Court.....
As to the publication of part of those documents, for which
lie was now blamed, lie admitted they were private, but
private documents given on public
contended
and
thatco natsa i
situ! lei
hif
Instructions on public matter,anti he e
he bed a right to use, them in his own defence ; otherwise,
whet public functionary could be safe, if eccustitions were pre-
fermi. against him after retiring from alike P He then proceed..
ed in some length to contend, from a review of the great re-
luctance with which the Nawab consented to the second loan,
and from the anxiety he evinced to he secured against future
similar applications; fist the Nawab himself' did not look on
the first as a voluntary met of him, but rather es the result' of
solicitation on the part of the Company. As to the use of the
word " extortion" In one of his (Colonel Ilaillieat) letters, its
applying to the loan, he would admit that it was too strong, but
It was not meant to convey the idea of a fraudulent exaction.
All he meant by it Wag to show that considerable degree of
persuasion had been usedbetere he complied, and this Tie now
repeated. From the mariner in which the Nawab might have
expressed himself to' the Noble Marquis or of Captain Nl‘Leod,
or Major Rick la,. they might have looked Open his act at the
time as voluntary ; but let it be recollected that this was after
the negociations and perstiasiona which he had used to induce
a compliance with time request for the loan. 'The Gallant
Colonel then referred to a great variety:of documents to prove
that the view he took of the transaction anti which he heti
de-
scribed in his evidence, was correct, and in conclusion observed,
that he would rely with perfect confidence on the opinion of the
Court as to his conduct.--(hear, hear!)
Mr. ELLIS, 'after remarking that the word " extortion"
could not be fairly applied to what had been the result of ne.
gotiation admitted that the word might have escaped the lion;
Director under an exasperation of mind, Erten other causes.—
(" petty, 'leer 1" front Colonel Llaillie.)— With time general
fairness of time explanation given by the Gallant Colonel he was
satisfied, and he thought lie might put the matter on Its best
ground, hy moving as an amendment, that the words " readily
obtained them," linstead of " volunterily offered by" the Na.
witb, should be inserted in the first part of the resolution.
Sir C. Fount* wended this, and observed that though
be admitted the fairness of, the explanation given by hill raL-
tive Colonel Willie, he could not help regretting 'lnd be had
not tis:al the same candour in his motto of giving his evidence
before the connnittee, in which case the preeent discussion
might leave been spared. The reluctant, hemitatieg, and am-
biguous manner in which he had given hisevidence, male Mtn
(Sir C. Forbes) and others imagine that the discrepancy be,
tween ilia statement and that of the Noble Lord was much
greater then it now epneared, and that there was much more
behind the curtain which it might be desirable to know. It
now appeared that there was quite enough to justify the Noble
Lord in calling the first loan voluntary (fur on tliceluirtteter of.
the second they were all agreed), though the' Gallant Colonel
might have reason to believe that it Was not aakpontancous- act
them would shew (us
coarutidbenVotiznioewear•egirllt it
Its to
Ithriepreuabdliincridgtioota of those papers, he
would every occasion in which Lor liastin administration
came to be considered) it' was a sound and a wise one,
though he must reptot
approve. there were parts of it which he did not
Air. li. ST N 'loft was glad-that these papers were publish-
ed, as they would show time conduct of residents in India to na.
five princes. It was in consequence of the gallant Colonel's
conduct to the Vizier that he had been removed by Lord Has.
rings from his situation ice reeidept.
Mr. HUME said he hid expected that these papers would
have been made the source of some charge against Lord liast.
hugs, but there WAS none. if as Much hnow,n before