The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-24 00:00:00

SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EYZNING, JUNE 24, 1848.

and should move that a substitute be appointed to sup-
ply the place of the absentee Member, and that Lord Gardner
be !!ordered to appear in his place in that House on 'd'hurs•-
day next, to explain the reasons of his non-attendance.
He, therefore, took the iih:rty of proposing to their Lordships
that the Select Committee be requested to recommend another
individual in his place that the parties may not be put to a
useless loss of time and expence, and that Lord Gardner be
requested to state in his place on Thursday next his reasons for
not attending the Committee.

Lord :BROUGHAM cor'n'ered that Lord Gardner must
have laboured under some misapprehension and did not intend
any disrespect to their Lordships. It was a mi,:take to sup-
pose that the attendance of Nobles Lords in that House was
voluntary, as every Peer was bound to attend, and the
precedentscompelling attendance were numerous, and a tine of
1001. had in some cases been imposed. In one case a Peer was
fined because he did dot attend when requested, and he was
committed to the Tower for refusing to pay it.
Lord CAMPBELL had lately searched the journals of
the House, in which he found innumerable instances
of the House compelling the attendance of Peers
not only for the service of the House but on
Committees. It also appeared that all Peers were coup elled
not only to attend in their places when the role was called, but
they were not allowed to leave the House until it adjourned.—
(Laughter.) In the time of Charles I. they were not allowed
to leave the House until the debate was finished. He r,joiced
that the motion had been made.

The Duke of WELLINGTON had not the smallest doubt
that their Lordships had the power of enforcing the attend-
ance of Noble Loris, and that the Mile Lord had not
attended the Committee this morning from mere inadvertence.
He thought it totally unnecessary to adopt any measures in
consequence. _ _ _

1 he Marquis of CL A N RICA R DE rose, and was
LEFT SPEAKING.

HOUSE OF' cOMMONS.

The SPrAKEIt took the Chair shortly before Four o'clock.
THE OXI'ORD, WORCESTER, AND WOLVER-
HAMPTON RAILWAY.
Mr. BARNEBY moved the third reading of the Oxford,
Worcester, and Wolve, hampton Railway Bill.
Mr. GISBORNE believed that the double line of rail pro-
posed to be laid down by the Bill could not be adopted with
safety. Unless the clause whiel gave the power to make the
line was struck out, he should oppose the third reading of the
13111.

Mr. SHAW defended the course pursued by the Committee.
Mr. GODSON remained .of the same opinion he had for-
merly enter ained with respect to this measure.
Mr. 0. STANLEY thought there ought to be some clause
introduced by which a certain mazimum rate of charge
was established. At present the company would be at lib,rty
to make any charge they pleased. He believed that. the report
was not the same as it was when it was laid on the table of the
House. He understood it had been altered in many essential
particulars by the chairman. He should therefore move that
the Bill be read a third time that day six months.
Mr. SHAW said that he had merely corrected the report
for the purpose of making it sense and grammar, but he had
altered it in no important particulars.
Colonel WOOD hoped the Hon. Member would not perse-
vere in his motion that the Bill be read that day six
months, after the House had expressed its opinion so strongly
in favour of the measure as it did the other night. If the
clause objected to by the Honourable Member opposite (Mr.
Gisborne), was struck out the Midland Welsh Rada ay would
have no means of access at all. He believed that the Govern.
remit would have to interfere, and make a uniform gauge
all over the kingdom. He hoped when the Bill went into the
House of Lords a clause would be introduced to make the Com-
pany adopt a narrow gauge.
r. 0. STANLEY, seeing the feeling of the /louse, would
withdraw his motion that the Bill be read a third time that day
six months.
Lord HOWICK thought it would be of the greatest public
importance to establish a unfform gauge all over the kingdom.
He was aware that the change of gauges would be attended
with great expense, but he thought that experse might be
well incurred. He hoped Government would take the matter
into their own hands, because, if a change waflo be made, the
sooner it was done the better.
Slr GEORGE CLERK said the question to which the
Noble Lord referred was one of very great importance, and
certainly required the serious consideration of that House. He
th,ught that he had observed, when last this question was before
the House, that it would not be possible to expect
those parties who had laid down railways on a particular gauge
would be at the enormous expense of changing their line, and
changing their whole stock of carriages and waggons, and
making an alteration in their tunnels, embankments, and cut-
tings. He thought it was most impirtant to inquire whether there
was any inconvenience, and to what extent that inconvenience
would prevail in different gauges being established. He thought
this should be the first inquiry they should make, The Com-
mittee upon this Bill had come to no decision with respect to
the gauge necessary to be adopted. They had reported
merely as to the facility of transhipping goods.
An inquiry ought to be instituted as to the degree of danger
that would attend the establishment of railways on different
gauges, and whether there would be any inconvience to the
public generally by a differene in the gauges. He was ex-
tremely happy that the Noble Lord had raised this question,
and thought it of the utmost importance that it should be fully
considered and discussed.

Mr. BRIGHT wished to say, on behalf of his Hon. Friend
the Member for Stockport, that it was his Hon. Friend's
intention to submit to the House, as a distinct proposition, the
rescnution which he had submitted on Friday night, as an
amendment to the motion for the reception of the report on
this Bill.
Mr. BARNARD thought it was highly important that
this question of gauges should be settled. It appeared
to him that no surveyor or engineer had given his
opinion as to whether the gauge might not be placed
between the narrow gauge of 4 feet 8i- inches and the
broad gauge. This was a point well worthy of consideration.
He believed that some persons held the opinion that a gauge of
4 feet 8} inches, was too narrow, while the broad, or 7 feet
gauge, was too broad, and the point, therefore, which he
thought they had to consider was, what would be the best
gauge between those tw o limits.

Sir G. GREY thought it was rather extraordinary that
the Board of Trade had not come down to the House with a
clause to provide for the establishment of the narrow gauge
upon this line. Ile thought this was the more extraordinary
atter what had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentleman
opposite (Sir George Clerk) on Friday night. The Board of
',trade now recommended the promoters of this Bill to adopt
a clause compelling them to do an impossibility—an impossibi-
lity— when the report of the 13oaro of Trade upon this suti-
ject :was considered—for they now called upon them to lay
down the narrow gauge to the satisiaction of the Board
of trade—the same Boa: d of Trade having reported
that to lay down the narrow gauge, under such circumstances,
would be impracticable. He must say that he thought the
Board of Trade had another duty to perform than coming
down to that House, and in plaintive tones endeavouring to
smooth down their own reports.

tSir G. CLERK said that after the majority of Friday night,
and the decided expression of opinion given by the House, he
had not thought it iiecessary further to interfere.

After a feW words from ill.. V. STUART, which were quite
inaudible,

Mr. HODGSON lIINDE suggested that the further pro-
ceedings on this Bill should be postponed, in order that clauses
might be introduced, compelling the broad gauge company to
lay down the narrow gauge in addition to their own. (
was met with loud cries of " No, no.")
Mr. COBDEN understood that the Right Honourable
Gentleman opposite had ❑o objection to a commission being
issued on this subject, as it would be preferable to a Committee
of that House. He (fur. Cobden) would, therefore, frame
his motion upon the subject accordingly.
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
Captain bERKELEY then presented a petition from the
inhabitants of Gloucester. The petitioners stated that they
had heard with alarm that the Great Western Company in-
tended to carry their line under the River Severn instead of
over it, and they therefore prayed the House to afford them
protection.—(Laughter. )
The London and South-Western (2) Railway was reported
to the House, and ordered tube read s second time on Thursday.

reated calls of " Divide," and concluded by auppotting the
motion for postponing the Bill.
Mr. LOCKI.A. RT. who was also interrupted by calls fora
division, said that the Bill was brought in by two members con-
nected with railways, against the expressed wishes of all the
inhabitants of the locality. He supported the amendment.
M. TANCRED, as Member fur the most :important bo-
rough on the line, hoped the House would hear a few words
from him. He had presented a petition against the Bill from
the Mayor and 747 of the principal traders of Banbury.
taking Banbury as the centre of the district through which
the proposed line of railway was to be taken in a radius of ten
miles, there were 70,000 of a population, who consumed
annually 60,000 tons of coals. With the narrow gauge line
there would be brought from South Staffordshire, but
if the present line was constructed they would
have to be supplied principally from Leicestershire,
at a much clearer rate than it they were supplied from the
former place, besides the great. inconvenience that weuld arise
from the change of gael'...es. He did think, under all the cir-
cumstances, the motion for the postponement of the Bill ought
to be acceded to.
Lord VILLIERS briefly supported the third readic g of the
Bill. He had been through that portion of the midland
counties where the line was to be constructed, and there had
been great rej.,icing when the news was received respecting the
recent decision of the House on the Bill.
Mr. BRAMS fON said with regard to the guages about
which so much had been said, the House should recollect that
the Board of Trade had power to enforce double lines of rails
on both the broad and narrow guages at any time whenever
they should think the traffic would require it. He would sup-
pert the third reading of the Bill.
Mr. T. DUNCOM BE said that they were told by one
Member that the question of the broad and narrow gauge had
nothing to do with the decision of the Committee. On the
other hand, the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin
stated that it was precisely on that ground
that the Committee had come to their decision. That
Hon. Member, who was the Chairman of the Committee, had
as.erted that If the Great Western project had not been
started the line to Oxford and Rugby would never have been
constructed. That was an assertion which as Chairman of that
Committee ought never to have been made, and was more in con-
sonance with the conduct of a partisan than of an impartial
judge. Opposed to this there was the declaration of the London
and Birmingham Directors, that they would apply the
whole of their revenues to the formation of their
line, rather than that it should not be formed. In addition
to all this, they had the decision of the Board of Trade.
It appeared that on this Committee there were two
Scotchmen and two Irishmen. The two Scotchmen
voted one way and the two Irishmen the other,
so that it was the vote of the Hon. Member for Essex had
decided the case. Now he had a greater opinion of the Board
of Trade than he had of the opinion of the Ilon. Member
for Essex, and this decision was in decided opposition to
the Board of Trade, he thought that it might be reversed.
without any itnpropriety. The decision of the Board of Trade
was in his mind entitled to respect, yet, notwithstanding all this,
he could not but come to the conclusion that the Board of
Trade in this matter might be altogether dispensed with.
After some further observations the House divided, when
there appeared—
For the motion
Against it
......
Majority ......
(LEFT SITTING.)

132
95
-37

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