The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-27 00:00:00

missal of Mr. -Mott was not his dismissal—such dis-
missal did not rest with him. It was in the power of
the Poor-law Commissioners ; and he, again most dis-
tinctly assured the House that it was not with reference
to this transaction that the dismissal of that gentleman
took place.—(Sir Robert Peel here whispered to Sir
James Graham.) The House would recollect that there
had been a reduction of the Assistant Poor-law Com-
missioners from ten to five, and it was in consequence
of this new arrangement that a selection bad taken

place, and Mr. Mott was amongst those not retained in
his place.—(Cheers.) Now the second charge which,
had been brought against him (Sir James Graham) was
with reference to the decision of the Nottingham Elec-
tion Committee, and it asserted that he had used his
efforts to cause Mr. Walter to be ejected from his seat—
that he had felt the necessity of getting rid of that gen-
tleman, and did not hesitate as to the means of doing
so. Now he (Sir J. Graham) must deny that he ever
felt the necessity of getting rid of that gentleman at
all.—(Laughter and cheers.) Whether that gentleman
remained in. the House, was to him (Sir J. Uraham) a
matter of the most ierfect indifference. But the allega-
tion that he had ever, directly or indirectly—in any way
or degree whatever, assisted, or wished to assist, in get-
ing rid of that gentleman—or that he had ever commu.
nicated,
H with the Chairman of the Committee—
(Mr. Hogg) in reference to the subject of that,,Commit-
tee's deliberations—he could give the House the most
solemn assurance in the power -of any man to do, that
such charge, such, allegation was altogether and utterly
unfounded.--(L eid cheers from both sides of the
House.) Now he (Sir James Graham) held the privi-
leges of that House in high regard and respect, and he
held freedom, of debate—perfect unfettered freedom Of.
debate--in like respect, He knew. not what course, the
House proposed to pursue, but before he withdrew he
wished to, say, as he before said, that he held the cha-
racter of a Member of that House as part of the charac-
ter of the House. And when any one chose to assail
the character of a Member of that House as such, and
more especially when one of the Ministers of the Crown
—he must say that 'he held their highest privilege to
be that of perfect fFeedom of speech---(Hear)—and he
could conceive hardly any language could be too free
when .a serious imputation had to be made—on reason-
able and fair grounds—upon a public otlicer ; and he
could also concede great freedom of speech when an
inference from certain known circumstances had to
be drawn: But in this-instance the Hon. Member for
Knaresborough had not indulged in an • inference from
facts, but had made allegation of a, fact itself—(Flear)
that he (Sir J. Grahanl)- had,in his public and offieial
capacity, procured a false return for the pur-
pose of getting rid 'of an objectionable person.
The question more or less submitted to the House was.
that such a report was made to this House. Now if any
further doubt existed on this matter that doubt might,
he thought, be removed upon further inquiry. For the
purpose of clearing his own recollection he had referred
to the Poor-law Commissioners: A reference might also
have been made to Mr. Mott himielf, who was a witness
perfectly satisfactory since he had been dismissed by the
Commissioners. But he (Sir J. Graham) did not think
it would have been proper in his own case to refer to'
Mr. Mott, and he had told the. Poor-law Commissioners
that it would be a breach of duty on their part to make.
that referenee. Still, he was a witness whose testimony
would be beyond all doubt, and he might be called by the
House itself. The. Hon. Gentleman talked about the
rights of Englishmen ; the right of free discussion was
an invaluable privilege, but there was also another right
which. Englishmen enjoyed as direct as that—the right
of a fair defence when accused. 'He said that he'was an
accused party ; he was there to ask for a trial and for
an acquittal, and he • was quite satisfied that the House
would give it to him.—(Loud cheers from both sides of
the House.) He was much obliged to the House for the
attention they had paid to this question.
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY said, from the general turn of
the speech of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, coin-
bined with his knowledge of the noble' and generous
nature he possessed, he was induced to think that they
were not at that moment without a prospect of some re-
lief from -this unpleasant affair. The Hon. Member
seemed to think that the House -would not deliberately
consider what was the true construction of the expres-
sions he: had used. He apprehended that he was mis-
taken in that, .and that, on the contrary, it was on that
subject which the majority of the. House 'wished to be
satisfied. If he hid had an opportunity earlier, he would
have stated that he did not believe then as he did not
believe now, and as he would- not believe till he heard
the Hon; Member state so in his place, that in those ex-
pressions -he intended to convey that most offensive
meaning which had been attributed to him.—(Hear,
hear.) He could not blame the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Bath to the extent that some appeared to blame
hini; at the same time, he did sympathise with the Hon.
Member for Knaresborough for the surprise to which he
had been sebjected. He could 'well understand that a
noble mind, being taken by surprise, was unwilling to
retract a word in the heat of the moment, and would then
adhere to what, on reflection, he would be willing to with-
draw. -That was the feelingof the Hon. MemberforKnares-
borough at the moment.'
,He trusted the Howie would
pardon him, if he recalled its attention to the expres-
sions used. fie confessed when he heard the expres •
sions read—and he was, not the only person who felt
similarly—he thought 'they were not so strong as bad
been represented.—(Hear,,• hear.) There were two
charges supposed to be made by the Hon. Member. The
first charged the Right lion. Baronet (Sir J. Graham)
with having procured a false report ; and the second in-
volved not only the Right Hon. Gentlerrian, but also the
Hon. and ••Learned Member for. Beverley, whom that
Right Hofi. Gentleman 'had,' it was said; influenced to
make an improper 'decision. If they looked to the pas-
sage from which this was inferred, it would be found
that this conclusien wei by no means knecessary one.—
(Hear, hear.), He appealed to the Hon. Gentleman, the-
Member for Knaresborough, on the subject, because till
he heard from him that he meant to charge the Right
Hon. Gentleman in the sense of suborning a man know-
ingly to put On paper that which he knew to be false, he
would'not believe it.—(Hear, hear.) His words were
that he obtained a " report which was false."—(Hear,
hear.) He did not say that 'there were not circum-
stances which would induce a person to that the
charge was not to be taken to its full extent.
What he wanted now was to ask the Hon. Member what
he Meant, for the words taken by themselves were not so
very serious. The passage did not state that the Right.
Hon. Gentleman had used his influence to procure a false
report, and that the Hon. and Learned Member for
Beverley had yielded to it.—(Hear, hear.) He believed
he was not misrepresenting the Hon. Member for
Knareaboroue,b, when he said that the meaning put upon
his words by the Hon. Member for Montrose was not
correct. When the accusation was brought forward, the
Hon. Member for Knaresborough said he never meant
any such thing. This was, no doubt, a very serious
matter in two points of view • first, the Hon. Member had
brought a charge against a 'Minister of the Crown that
he had made a corrupt use of his office and procured a
false report. He for one fully acquitted the Hon. and
Learned Member for Bath of bringing the subject before
• the House, because he thought there would be just
groundsairman.fo
ars a
of
aTPwaroliammoernetary inquiry if that chuge could
seriousother
be made out. Again, there was a charge against an
officer of the House for corruption in his duty as
ltohook ed
purpose on
danger of fettering the freedom of discussion, which he
very
ascertainingser iou s
theu
H. e gese Member
mhaauttde,rs there could w
a not
s
the
be
imagined. Then, on the
for Knaresborough whether he had used the
words with the meaning attributed to them,
for until he had so he. would not believe it.
If he did, at all events the House was bound to acquit
the Right Hon. Secretary of State, and the Right. Hon.
Member for Beverley, and to state that there was no
ground for the charges which had been made against
them ; and as to any ulterior measures which it might
be deemed advisable 'to adopt, he would not give any
opiniow.—(Chears;) •
A pause followed, and there were loud cries for Mr.
Ferrand. The Hon: Member, however, did not rise in
answer to the call.

borough Sir ll.
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which had just been made to him, assume that he did
not mean to address the House. He could, if he thought
fit, give an explanation ; but he inferred that it was not
the Hon. Gentleman's intention to make any other ob-
servations in addition to those which he had already ad-
dressed to the House.--(The Right Honourable Baronet
paused for a moment and then proceeded.) It then be-
came his (Sir R. Peel's) duty to state to the House his
impression as to the course Which it would be advisable
for the House to pursue. He begged the House to re-
collect that the office of adviser which he had now
assumed was not a voluntary office. In offering his ad-
vice to the House, he was acting as he had stated the
other night, in conformity with established usage. It
was necessary, in order to enable the House to come to a
decision, that some distinct proposition should be laid
before it.
The SPEAKER here interrupted the Right Hon.
Gentleman, and stated that in conformity with the
usages of the House the Hon. Member for Knares-
borough ought to withdraw.
Mr. Ferrand then rose and left the House, and was
followed by Sir James. Graham and Mr. Hogg. Mr. P.
Borthwick rose and also left the House, amidst shouts
of laughter.
Sir R. PEEL resumed--When he had been inter-
rupted by the Speaker he was stating that he had not
assumed to himself'the office of adviser voluntarily, but
was acting in conformity with the general rule, which
was, that the first Minister of the Crown in that House
should submit-to the House a distinct proposition as to
the course which it might be deemed advisable to adopt.
—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that he had taken no
course with regard to this matter which incapacitated
him from expressing an opinion as to the affair which
had been brought before the notice of the House.
He' had thought that it would have been better not to
have noticed the observations which had been made by
the Hon. Gentleman.--(Hear, hear.) When the subject
had been first brought 'forward he had counselled the
House not to come to any resolution, but to take an op-
portunity of considering the matter. The House had
acceded to his counsel, and had abstained from further
considering the subject until the next day. Aftei that
lapse of time he had recommended to the House not to
consider the address which had been made by the Hon.-
Gentleman in the course of his speech, which he had
not"concluded, as a final conclusion against him, but to
give him an opportunity, after mature consideration, of
stating to the House whether he adopted those expres-
sions—whether he adhered to those charges, or whether
he was prepared to substantiate them. The complaint
had been brought under the notice of the House by his
Hon. Friend the Member fur Beverley, and his Right
Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home De•
pertinent. They had complained that a charge had been
preferred against them of improper conduct, in the one
place with respect to official duty, in the other with re-
spect to judicial duties imposed by the House. Whatever
course they took, he trusted they should not try to e -
cape from the difficulty by any equivocation as to the