The Sun.
London, England, 1828-05-10 00:00:00

Lord Liverpool two years ago, and with no apparent inten-
tion to attempt any alteration in the state of things, of
which be complained— a state of things in which, if the
Noble Lord were correct, the Catholics gave half their
affections to their King, and the King half his protection
to his Catholic subjects. Such statements represented
the subjects traitors, and the King a tyrant. It was
idle to deal with the sentiment, of men as long as their
conduct was harmless. Would the British Legislature do
the work of the Inquisition, and inquire into abstract opinion
and belief, instead of examining facts and conduct? It
sae impossible to describe the state of irritation and ex-
citement existing on the subject of the Roman Catholic
Mims in Ireland. The gentry, the executive, the people
—all lived under the Catholic Association. Such a state
of things should be put an end to. He was prepared to go
into Committee with the Hon. Baronet, not only with a
view to relieve the grievances of the Roman Catholics,in but
order to promote the interests of the Protestants, and
the security and advantage of the Empire. Such were his
views of this important question, and with these views he
would go into the Committee for which the Hon. Ba-
ronet had moved. If we dealt with the Catholics fully
anti fairly, and as they deserved, we ought to lose no time.
If we had hitherto failed in attaining all we wished, it
was because we had hitherto dealt with them only by
halves. We shstilbl repeal the whole of the Penal Code—
we should strike off the last links that remained of those fet-
ters by which Ireland had been so long enthralled. We
should then find the Catholics as much attached to their
Xing, as much attached to the laws, and as much disposed
o obey them, as any other class of men in the country.
Mr. W. LAMB rose amid loud and continued cries of
Question !" He should leave out of his arguments all
those laws passed at the Reformation and the Revolution :
not because he had no respect for those laws, hut because,
if Parliament should think that they were irreconcileable
with present times, and that it would be wise to change
them, Parliament hail unquestionably the power so to do.
Those laws were not irrevocable, and might he changed.
Tfe should also omit from his arguments all comments on
the !phis manifested by the Roman Catholic laity and the
Roman Catholic Clergy; hecanse, if he admitted it was
ineetile and to be condemned, his opinion was, that it was
•aegravated by exclusion, and might be softened by concilia-
tion. The only means of meeting the certain method of
everting all danger was by some such measure as that pro-
posed by the Hon. -Baronet. If the removal of disqualifi •
cations was to be considered as not consistent with a Pro-
testant Government, he should deeply regret it, because it
woteld not augur well for the future tranquillity of the
country. He would say to the British House of Commons
and to the country--do not let us raise the flag of discord
in our own territory—do not let us create divisions and dis-
sensions erelong our own people—do not let us light the
torch el religious animosity which may be converted to a
consnmirig, fire. It is your duty to do all you can to amal-
gamate, and nothing to divide. By amalgamating alone
you can expert to prosper. There will he difficulties
enough to arise without your adding to their number—
there will be dangers enough to encounter without your
inviting their increase. He was sure he haul never said,
be was store lie bad never felt, that there were no difficulties
in way of this great and important question. Ile knelt
that there were difficulties. Nor (lid he deny that some
eiifticulties arose in consequence of the intemperance of the
eeetholies themselves, and the still greater intemperance of
these who professed to be their leaders. Upon this
topic
.he would express himself in no stronger language;
not heeatese If,: did not bold strong opinions, .but because
he was aot dell:Joffe of introducing such a matter into the
observations Ire meant to address to the House. It had
been always said, ai:d it was a main argument of the Right
Hon. Gentleman, that though you incur nineli danger,
you obtain no result—that you run much risk in Ireland,
yet that you give net satisfaction there. Now the real dan-
ger, and certainly the most plausible danger, was that
stated by the Hon. Member for Louth (Mr. 1.. Foster),
and adopted by another Hon. Gentleman—the real danger
was to be apprehended through Parliament, and in this
way only. No power diner/mid be given to Corporations
could produce any ill effect, except so far as it gave a power
;if inizoducing Catholic :Members into Parliament. An
Von. Member had stated the number of Members elected
by the influence of the Roman Catholics. With respect
to that number, it infest depend on the growing means
of the Boman Catholics, and to the fitness of ineividnan
to Ell such high stations as the Representatives of the
people ; for it was not to be supposed that to unfit
persons won't! be delegated to so important a duty. The
same Honourable Itereher had drawn a picture of the
danger that might arise from a union of such a body—a body
of Members—Roman Catluslic Members—in the House of
Conamone. Now the extent a that number, it was not
evoreh his (Mr. W. Lamb's) white to say—but one thing I
he did deny—their Uoictl. lie ilenieel that they were at
all likely to act is cnbneert—they would be divided by cir-
cumstances, by pecntiarity of temperament, and by the
thoue.and °tiler reasons by which mankind were invariably
divided. In this opinion he was borne out by the fact,
that there W 3.9 in the House a body, bound together by
3 religious union, and who had nevee been found to act
together except upon questions with which their religion
was concerned. With respect to Scotland, also, it would
tie remenieered, that we had had to encounter those whose
eie.ens were more opposed to the Festabliahed Church than
:case of the Rosistan Catholics, and the Legislature had
teen once asked sties's:her it would eucounter the danger to .1
he apprehended from the admission of 16 Peers and 45
Commoner: to the United Parliament of Great Britain.
This danger vanished with the aarrying of the measure—
anti they had been never heard ees eombinine together
for the purpose of injuring the Feetablishee Church.
his did not say that the granting Chia efeeessure would
heal all the wounds, or remedy all tlee evils of
treland. Many other causes existed to which those
tvOthis awl those evils might be attributed, but this
he dig say, that it would give rise to a general
feeling thee justioe had been done, and this would be
a ray of light ;"hich would illumine the darkest cabin of
that country. Ni'ith reseeet to those gentlemen whose
minds had been made uit upon tine question, who thought
and felt, that malting, these concessions would be injurious
en the religion, and to the poliah:al Yienos of this country ;
end who considered it to be possible that eve could remain
ae we were, it would Inc great presumption id Nee to ima-
gine that he could change their minds, but if there were
secy gentlemen preseut, and, doubtlees, there were many,
en mane as to reduce the former to great haeignificance, who
thought that this question must some time or other he
granted, that some time or other those coneesssione must he
made, to those he addressed himself, and those he entreated
eot to incur danger be procrastination; ; those he implored not
to consult their nun convenience to put off a measure on
which much, very much, must depend ; those he implored
to omit rio longer the opportunity of giving to a great and
powerful people, peace and prosperity. If it were now
granted, the gift would he one of grace, if it were longer
delayed it might he attributed to apprehension. He did
:sot address himself to those whose oserels were already
made tip. Such might be justified is e'geag against a
measure which they consitleted dangerous. .lie lereew not
whether this question would he in a majority or a netisositY,
hut this he knew, that if the votes of all those who frit
the question must be granted, Sirt-iT
that, sooner or later,
now given in favour of it, it wonld he carried by the
largest majority that ever bore it through the doors of the
uouse.. Iron. tlleinber resumed his neat amid great
and continued applause.
GRANT rose to address the Holm, but the
~,6•0 of became so hound
Question, withdraw, and adjourn,
p te Hon.
and general, as total;' t 5
Afterevent r seveh
‘ralß. g:
ctual attGempentle-
ts
man frosts being bested,
to gain attention, he reedeeed his seat,
m butt such oved t. wtireadjournment of the
Lord SAMSON then
titre roar in th
question to Monday fleet ; -
House at the time, that the purport thhe Noble e
Lord 's
Tieing was only understood from what Mowed:
eed pM the
Tire SPEAKER read the original motion,
amendment, " Thai the further debate on estion be
this qu
adjourned to -Monday next." (Loud "eriesi of hear, hear ;
No, no.)
e from
A Member whose name we could not learn,
ender gallery, and observed, that if the House were
opaje
not satisfied to hear an Hon. Member, who eras 3 Member
of his Majesty's Government, and heat been formerly
Secretary of State for Ireland, the House count not be
in formerly
temper to continue the debate.
Mr. BROUGHAM rose and said, Sir, DIV opinion irae
been anticipated by my Nubble Friend, with respect to the
continuance of this debate. No one can be more interested
than i ant in coining to the conclusion of title subject, as
far as minor enneiderahonsgo
; and I am aware that a large •
number, if nor the majority of the House, are anxious now
to come to a division on a question which has been so
often .discussed, and which on these two last nights has re-
ceived se ;till a discussion ; but we must be in a {came of
mind to finish the discussion in ai manner which so great
and so important, a subject dement s. Is it then the in-
tention of the House to adjourn, or to continue sitting, not
only until my Right Hon. Friend, who is in possession of
the Rous ,and who, from the peculiarity of the situation
ts
he now holds, and of that whieh he has heretofore held,
has large claims on your attention, has delivered hie
:eotirnents, but until other Honourable getrabere—some
of that Hon. Member's colleagues,
who have equal claimsun
ready to
your attention, who are no doubt equally ,
deliver their sentiments, and who are no doubt equally
anxious that they should be heard on this subs
heeew(Lettat and cclatilaued logitter).4lAu 49.4 °P-