The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-01 00:00:00

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ti•M Right Hon. Gentleman, adhering to all the principles
he had avowed, would yet have given his assent to such a
INdiheation, in order to attain the important object of ef-
leeting a permanent settlement of this question.—(Hear,
'•)--Every body must be grateful to my Right Lion.
Friend near me, for the manner in which he has brought
forward this measure, so adapted as it is to accomplish
that end. I have already stated that by the law of last
weeien, Permission was given to admit corn at a certain
Priee• . Nuw, was it admitted or not ! I answer, that
't Was, and in very considerable quantities. Ido not think
the amount of corn so admitted in several successive
Weeks, and the duties fixed upon such quantities, have
been brought under the consideration of the House upon
the present occasion. I think that the great advantage
of carrying these resolutions into effect would be, that
We should have gradual and equal importations, not
those sudden aad overpowering ones, and which the re-
turns of such successive weeks, as I have just alluded to, will
Mew to have taken place. Parties disposed to part with their
corn would be, I think, under this measure, disposed to
4° au, even at a less rate of profit, much more than they
Would be, if the present law were to continue. Under
tut Act of last veer then, what was the amount of foreign
corn taken out fur home consumption, and what the duty
Paid upon it ? When the price was about 60s. per
quarter, the duty was 245., and I find that in the week
en chug July 13th, there were introduced into our market
13,0 quarters. In the week aer, enng the
juiT, tOO
he price being 61s. and the duty 22s.di Bd., 47,8020th0
quarters. In the next week, the duty being still 225. Bd.,
40,000 quarters. In the next week. at the same duty,
36,000 quarters. In the week following, 26,000 quar-
t". In the next week 38,000 qrs. In the week which
Drought the statement down to the 24th of August, and
the harvest was approaching, there were imported ants
the market no less than 178,000 quarters of wheat,
Paying 225. Bd,—(hear, hear.) I state these facts, because
I
contend they ought not to be thrown out of our considee
ratiou,when we are to determine what duty it may be rea-
sonable to impose on foreign corn. In the next week,Sir,the
duty rose to 245. tid., but, notwithstanding this increase of
dutY,82,700 quarters were imported in the week ending the
month of August. In the week afterwards at the same
duty, 3,700 ; and in the following week, 32,625. lam
44ite aware that no conclusive argument can be drawn
from this statement, unless we knew the profit made upon
the various transactions, duty being deducted from the
price fur which the cc - was sold. But while I admit
this, I coutend that a elusive inference is derived in
favourof a permanent stem. If the corn growers were
uninfluenced by the fact of all this unnecessary quantity of
cern being thrown into the market at so high a rate of
duty, because they were compulsory duties limiting impor-
tation, I contend that the argument is irresistible in favour
not only of the manufacturers but of the agriculturists ; it
is conclusive in favour of a permanent duty, not of a duty
amounting to a prohibition. I think the Hon. Gentleman
Lass snore than once stated on former occasions, that looking
to the various relations which have grown up in the pre-
sent state of society, and the growth of many new and
extensive vested interests, it is impossible to apply mere
abstract principles to the consideration of interests so
various and so complicated. This, in my opinion,
he has well and wisely said ; and I make the same ob-
servation of his rewarks upon the agricultural interest, and
the duties that devolve upon them. Looking to the man-1
nee in which they discharge those duties—to the influence
they exercise upon the rest of the community--to the in-
valuable assistance they lend to the Government—l confess
that I should be sorry to vindicate any mere abstract prin-
ciplee, or to effect the object of ever making bread cheap at
inhe risk of sacrificing the interests of that class of pet-
tiit, Whose importance, in their present relations,
The
ek essential to the well-being of the State.—(Hear. )
natural Consequence of the increase of manufactures is
the
devotion of a considerable part of the land that was in
corn cultivation to the raising of milk, butter, and other
tarlitieles of that description. if, as is probably the case,
e state of society has become so constituted that less
cum ie now grown in this country than formerly, it is not
a conclusive proof that the prosperity of the empire is de-
614d"g, or that agriculture is less flourishing than it was.
If the tact of a decrease in the cultivation of cora were
proved to me, I should, in order to arrive at a just conciu-
lank on the subject, think myself bound to inquire whether
the cultivation of other articles of consumption,which it was
nut ,Q convenient to import, had not increased in the same
proportion. But let us not forget, in looking to other
countries for supplying this deficiency, a country with the
most fertile laud' in Europe, and possessing the greatest ca-
pabilities for improvement by enclosures and other means.
It is to, that inclosures and that improvement that I look
for one of the permanent sources of the welfare of Ireland.
--(Hear, hear.) Let us not, therefore forget, when we
look for, a supply for our deficiencies by the importation of
foreign coin, to take care that it should not interfere with
the supply we derive from Ireland.—(Cheers.) All the
benefits expected to be derived front the importation of
foreign
wheat will accrue to us, added to many others, by
encouraging the agriculture of that country. The more
t_he agriculture of Ireland is extended,
the greater will be
the demand for British manufactures there.--(Hear,
beer.) I do not say that the importation of corn from
Irf
eland should be encouraged to the exclusion
corn
from abroad ; but that the relations of
Ireland to this: country should not be forgotten, nor
the
.right which these relations give her a preference over
foreign
vie countries to supply any deficiency in our own cul-
tivation. I cordially concur in the observation, that the
chances of the permanent settlement of this question will
be greatly diminished if we introduce into this discussion,
in which the minds of men are sc, easily excited, any of
the asperities of party feeling. And I should upbraid my-
self to the last moment of my life, if I were to excite any
such feeling. There is one part of the lien. Member for
Somerset's observations which I beg to be allowed to cor-
rect, because they, as well as the quotation on which they
were founded, appear to give strength to his apprehen-
sions. I think I shall be able to succeed in convincing
him that his fears respecting the importation of foreign corn
Lot the terms proposed by this measure are groundless. Ile
referred, I believe, to page 4, for the purpose of showing,
that on the 15th of November of last year 7,800 and odd
quarters of foreign wheat were introduced into the con-
sumption of this country, when the duty amounted to one
pound and eightpence.
Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE—Two pounds.
Mr, PEEL—WeII, two pounds. It; thee, I say, the
Hon. Member can prove. that 7,800 quarters of wheat
were introduced at a duty of 2/., his observations arc well
founded.
Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE—Two pounds and
eightpence it was.
mi. PEEL—Be it so, then. Taking corn at 525., fo-
reign wheat, bearing a duty of 2/. Os. Bd., would, on im-
portation, bear a profit, after deducting all charges for
freight, warehousing, &e-., of 11 s. 4d. This, I admit,
would justify the Hon. Member's apprehensions. But his
quotation is not correct. There certainly was on the 15th
November of last year, 7,886 quarters of something im-
ported, on which duty was paid, but it was not wheat. It was
on meal, flour, and other articles of the kind for the cunsump-
tion of London, indeed of the whole United Kingdom. Cer-
tainly it was nut Wheat, for not a single bushel of wheat
Las entered when the duty has been at 21. Bd. If the Hon.
Member for Somerset will look to the heading of the
figures which he quoted he will find what I have stated to
be the fact. The head does not speak of duties on wheat ill particular, but on all corn, anti includes eats, meal, &c.
lu point of filet, when the duty has been 2/. Os. Bd. the
returns show no foreign corn imported. I did not intend,
Sir, to have occupied the House thus long, but have done
es) that it might not be thought that I assented to the reso-
lutions, which I willingly do, on any other account than
because I consider them founded in justice. Ido not, Sir,
'_.Quaider this an inequitable adjustment to any party ot, l'ass- It is fair towards the commercial interest, and at
the same time, after the experience we have had, must be
acknowledgedto he
;a.rtowardi the agriculturists. I
also agree with these resolutions, because I think them
more likely to
gain general—i't cannot, of course, be
expected to be universal--(Heat',—(Hear, hear ;)--and
thus procure a settlement of the question, and
utnfurtheru agitation of the public mind. They are,
,more likel •to be pu
could adept.
reso-
lutions will be of L
Thpermauent than any others svc
prevent
probability of permanency in tile reso-
othe_s,
apparently
more benefit to the landed interest than
if
but whichr wouldParu tbi snore favourable to them, were passed,
lotions w„ in e likely to be set aside. All the reso-
aY Pass can
price
of, not insure a price of 60s. (Hear,
hear.) The
ostensive corn depentla upon other and more
Pays
cular duty. We havilLs
ithan the imposition of any parti-
remunerating price, ax'id leald touch of the necesaity of a
remunerating price, of such and such sums being a
but, Sir, it is and of the necessity of securing it;
,uiposeibie to
are nutnerous and pow to
secure it. (Cheers.) There
of foreign corn, that r l causes, besides the importation
but as far as that
causeegu.late the prices in this country;
give my consent to those re's concerned I consider it, and
table to all parties. (Cheesoluticns as being just and equi-
Mr- BARING explained".)
Mr. lIUME.—The Ri 1
ut this a just and equitable g Hon.
Gentleman had styled
approbation of the counnw. measure, and likely to gain the
what its justice and equityYc'e ut he had not yet stated in
the
justice
of
the
measure
eonnsisiststded. The fact was that
iii u4huldiug oue class
of the community at the expellee
Right Jinn. Gentleman considered of all the others. Tlw
ered this a constitutional

~-

measure...but in what was it constitutional? It sup-
ported the aristocracy of this country, which was said to
be a limited monarchy. It was or ought to be the object
of all Governments to consult the interests of the many and
not those of the few. This measure was not just, for it
supported the interests of the few against the rights of the
many.—(Hear.)—The Right Hon. Gent. talked of the
House of Lords not being likely to agree to any other reso-
lutions than these. This he (Mr. Hume) considered uncon-
stitutional. They had before now differed from the House
of Lords, and that body Lad been obliged to come round to
the opinions of that House. Let them not therefore think
what would be done in the other House, but let them be
guided by their own sense of right. The Right Hon.
Gentleman was bosnd to show, in order to make this mea-
sure out to be founded on a just principle, that corn was to
be imported ou the same principle as other articles of com-
meree.• There were only two ways that he (Mr. H.) knew
of in which other articles were imported. They were on
the principle of a fixed duty, and of an ad valorem duty,
which in some respect had the character of a fixed duty.—
Now, corn was to be admitted neither upon a fixed duty nor
upor an ad valorem duty; but was so admitted as to make it
impossible for the poor to get their bread below a certain
price. But the evil of these laws fell not only on the
poor, but ultimately en the landholders also, for as the
price of provisions rose, pauperism increased, and the bur-
den of supporting those who could support themselves, if
permitted, would thus fall upon them. Were the trade in
corn more open, the agriculturists would grow as much
corn as they sow did, and would have less poor to sup-
port. This was said not to be a prohibitory measure—but
if it was not so in name it was so in fact. An Hon. Mem-
ber had said, that the agriculturists imperiously demanded
their interest to be protected; but he should like to know
what right they have above any other class in the commu-
nity to demand protection for their interests?—(Hear.)—
It was the duty of Ministers not to allow themselves to be
thus dictated to ; but if any compromise was to take place
they ought to stand as impartial erbiters between the two
parties. It was said by some that it was impossible to
have cheap corn with a debt of 800,000,000/. ; but how
were the people called upon to pay the interest of this
debt ? Why, by being made to pay dearer for their bread.
(Hear. )—lt was pretended, in justification of this, that the
agriculturists had to pay tithes, poor rates, and other things
that the rest of the community had not. If that were the
case let them come forward and prove it, and lie should
be the first to make every allowance fur them. But taking
all their additional burdens into consideration, they could
not be equal to more than Ss. a bushel—(oh, oh,)—he
meant Ss. a quarter. (Oh, oh, and cries of Order.) Be-
sides, in considering this question, 'they ought to look at
increased value of the currency. What was 6°'• a
year or two ago was now worth more. (Oh, oh.) Mini-
sters claimed credit of the country for this measure, whilst
they betrayed it, (Hear. ) His intention was, in a future
stage of this proceeding, to propose a permanent rate of
duty; but he would mention the nature of it, as it seemed
to be the wish of those who brought the subject forward
to know all that was intended relative to it. For the pre-
sent year he should begin with what he considered rather a
high duty, to be gradually lowered for four or five years.
He should propose, then, this year to begirt with a duty
of 15s. on imported corn (Oh, oh) ; that was more than
the agriculturists had a right to demand. (A lengthened
Oh.) He thanked the Hon. Member who was so elo-
quent in his interruptions. (Laughter.) As all rapid
changes, however beneficial they might be, were attended
with great inconveniences, 64should propose that this 15s.
should be reduced at the rate of a shilling per year only,
till it came down to ten shillings, at which it should per-
manently remain.—He should propose also that barley
should Ire admissible for the present year at a duty of
95. per quarter, likewise to fall a shilling per annum till
it reached is., at which it should be permanent. The
same principle also he proposed to extend to oats.
Colonel WOOD concurred in the scale of duties pro-
posed last year, and looking upon the present as that
amended, it should have his sanction.
Colonel TRENCH said that the encouragement of the
agriculture of Ireland would bring peace and happiness to
that country.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT—Under present circum-
stances I do not think it expedient to give any detailed opi-
nion upon this question ; nor do I see how I can express
what I entertain, without advancing a somewhat bold pro-
position. My belief is, that a free trade in corn wilt be
found to be most advantageous, not only to the landed,
but to every other interest. I am aware, that at this time
of the night, and at this stage of the measure, the question
I raise could not be discussed in a manner to do it jus-
tice ; and I shall therefore do no more than announce my
future intentions. I take upon myself to say, that I will
give it a fair hearing, and leaving it before the House by
itself, when I trust it will have the benefit of the conside-
ration of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, whose
authority, on a subject of this kind, is great. That lion.
Gentleman, although compelled to act in the manner he
now does, must be restrained both by his own judgment
and public feeling. Indeed, all the Right Hon. Gentle-
men opposite seem to have acted under the same impulse.
The Right Hou. the Secretary for the Colonial Department,
the Right lion. Gentleman who introduced this question,
and the Right lion. Secretary for Home Affairs, all appear
to me, from all I have heard them say, to be strongly in-
clined to that view of the question which I certainly take,
but which they, in discretion and prudence, do not feel
themselves justified in altogether avowing, but which I, un-
fettered by responsibility, do not hesitate to declare. I shall
not now trouble the House with any details, as I intend to
bring the question specially before the House, and that be-
fore this Session is over. The topics, at least the greater
part of the el, that have been brought forward by either
party on this subject, appear to me quite beside the
question. It appears to ine quite a mistake to look at it
as a mere question of corn ; it is more a question of cur-
rency. We cannot look at the price of corn, with a view
to regulate it, unless we are prepared to say what is the
state of the currency—that is to say, of the measure of the
price or that which forms it..—(Hear, hear.)—l am satis-
fied that the distress which has afflicted this country is 'fic-
titious; that, in the midst of real prosperity, of universal
wealth, the agricultural, the manufacturing, the trading,
and the shipping interests, have all been equally dis-
treesed, but mistaken in the cause of that distress. All
have been affected by one and the same cause; and cer-
tainly, in my mind, nothing has had, or could have,
a more mischievous effect than holding out to the people
at large that the different ranks and professions had a
divided interest in the country, and that that which
distressed the one was the cause of prosperity to the
other ; whilst, in point of fact, nothing, as I will en-
deavour to show, is more false than that the manufac-
turer can be flourishing, and the trader and agriculturist de-
pressed, or the agriculturist flourishing and the manufacturer
depressed. The manufacturer and trader cannot flourish
if the agriculturist be depressed ; for, I assert, Sir, that all
others grow out of the agricultural interest.—(Cheers.)—
What is the manufacturing interest but the disposer of the
sum plus produze of the agriculturist?—(hear, hear.)—
Therefore, if the agricultural interest be poor, it is im-
possible for the manufacturing class to flourish. I say it
is impossible, for it flows out of the agricultural interest,
and they can only prosper and flourish together. What
is said may he true, that if more corn be imported, the ma-
nufacturing interest will gain power and wealth, as well
as the place from whence the corn comes, because this
wealth is made by a mutual exchange of commodities. I
will not, however, now enter into the question, and beg
only not to be thought to acquiesce in the resolutions.—
There is not now time to go into the question ; but I say
that it cannot be considered, without the state of the cur-
rency be the main thing investigated. It is impossible
that this should be a final settlement, as is wished,
al, sikrsfiB agricultural
oo tir:
tle:
t ve
e of
is
for the currency had not been even looked at.—
nterest
!at
r is,e the most vital importance, and I am
distresse s ed
cbecause
cevuel lt ai
fivagre
medium.lsetrd rm can-
not
altered r
s whole otf he
a ttdel tinof t
find income
sufficient to meet the demands upon them.
The case is the same with the manufacturers, and from this
cause. The whole system of the country was framed
when priers were at the highest point. The taxes were
imposed, the greater part of the debt was contracted, at a
period of high price. To raise the country to that prosperity
from
which it has fqllen, it is necessary again to have high
prices. It was a mistake of the legislature, although
no
doubt done with good intent, to reduce the currency and
thus lower prices. The agriculturist imagines his distress
arises from the price of corn ; but if we examine the (litre-
e tihr
rent classes of society we find that all complain in the same
way. Merchants speak of nothing but dull markets and
Is it not evident that the cause of all this
heavy sales.
must be one and the same? What an Hon. Member op-
posite (Colonel Wood) had said respecting the lower classes
having discovered that cheap bleed is no hearth, is quite
true. The reason is, that their wages are paid in a
ratio varying with the price of bread ; and it is the same
thing to them if they have low
v priced bread and low wages,
or high priced bread and high wages. 1 am quite per-
suaded that if this country is to be relieved, it must be by
attending to the state of the currency. if the system of
contracting the currency be persisted in, I am satisfied that
the country will be again thrown into the same distress
from which it is now lately recovered. It cannot be per-
manently prosperous unless it be permanently placed in that
situation ill which it was before the fall of prices.
Mr. WARD did not intend to address the House, had
it not been for the allusion of the lion. Member for Brecon

to the bonding system. That system was approved by
Canning, Liverpool, Perceval, Pitt, and Fox—all approved
of the principle of that system. All that the House could
do with respect to it was to cause the Corn to be bonded
on the other side of the water instead of this. If corn
holders were driven to bond their corn on the other side of
the water, in the event of a war it
.might be seized, and
thus, should there be a bad harvest in England, occasion a
national as well as an individual loss. After a few more
observations the Hon. Member concluded, by observing
that he hoped this measure would pass.
Mr. WHITMORE said a few words in explanation.
The several Resolutions were then put, and carried.
On the motion that the Chairman should report pro-
gress, and ask leave to sit again,
Mr. BANKES hoped, that as the question involved in
the resolutions under their consideration were of very con-
siderable interest to almost all classes, the Members of that
House would not in this instance be called en to pledge
themselves to their adoption immediately.
Mr. HUSKISSON observed, that in the next stage of
their proceeding it would be competent to the Hon. Mem-
ber, or any other gentleman who could not coincide with
any particular proposition contained in these resolutions, to
make a distinct amendment or amendments to them.

Mr. BARING observed, that it appeared to be of great
importance that the averages should be strictly taken ac-
cording to law.
Mr. AIONCK believed that the principal mischief that
might result from the adoption of the resolutions would
consist in a tendency to keep up the price of a commodity,
and save one class from the effect of a depreciation of price
at the expeuce of another.

The CHAIRMAN was ordered to report progress, and
the report was ordered to be taken into further considera-
tion en Tuesday, the lbth of April.

FREEHOLDERS' DISTRICTS BILL.

On the motion of Mr. SYKES, the Freeholders' Dis-
tricts Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be com-
mitted.

PENRYN DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL.

Lord J. RUSSELL moved the third reading of this
Bill, which was agreed to, and the Bill paised, and wax
ordered to be carried to the Lords, after a few words from
Mr. WILLIAM SMITH, complimentary to the patriotic spi-
rit and enlightened views of the Noble Mover.
At the request of Mr. W. WiairmottE, Mr. GORDON
consented to postpone 1:;.s motion relative to the treatment
and condition of the Black and Coloured Population in
the West India Colonies, which stood for Tuesday (this
day).

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