The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-18 00:00:00

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relative to general inclosures. He thought a measure of
that kind, if cff.ctually carried out, would be of as
rule
h ..good to Eneland and to the English labourer, and
oteewhat analogous to a healthy system of einigra-
ti,"---(Hear, hear.) Let them once throw open a new
enatinel for the industry of the lower class s, and it
trould Fpeetli;y be taken edvantage of. But he thouelit
that
:reread Ito sore hill should be passed, for it
to s 8 psi: ate to Ire to
!,!
,bi. o':' -iii of the
H, ti .j, ; h aieire, that
I/ 'etatie e it a u; oie (el:, this task.
ilew 10 qte leave the
}lce,,u.se to deal with, for it was hopeless to e-.pt et that
t„,i
etirnmeet %soul(' have to do with it. Ile (Mr. Miles)
wilh two lion. Memb rs had aait.d on the Right Ilan.
littronet the Secretary for the Home Depirtment. The
G'overnnaerit took time to consider his demands, but up
ttl'i that time he had heard hothing more upon the subject.
e heti now come to the House to ask a small reduction,
Which he had ;zoo,' reason to believe had been thought
by the Right Hon. ir,net at the head of th Go
le a
lerntnent, and by the Noble Lord the Member for Lon-
-83 It would be in the tecol:ection of the House, that in
tht a Committee of the House had been proposed on
iefc subject of agricultural distress; and among the Hon.
Hembers who sat on that Committee were the Right
n• Baronet at the head of the Government, and the
cele Lord the Alemher for the City of London. The
urnmittee divided the subject matter of their inquiry
(111.4)1°11r departments, from each of which emanated a
tuitinet report. One of those reports, to which he would
the§uh-Cemmittee over which the Right Hon. Baronet
de.d, on the subject of criminal prosecutions. This
oftruttee, as he had already said, was a sub-division
o general Committee appointed to inquire into agri •
-edieral distress. He would read an extract from the re-
Port i
th ssucel by the Committee of 1833. The Hen. Member
read the extract alluded to, which stated that the
whole subject of the county rates was one well worthy of
dthe consideration of the House, and it recommended that
e Payment of the cost of prosecutions should be borne,
fot. her the county, but by the Government. It charac-
7ised the system of expenditure as anomalous in the
totteitn, P, and unfitted for purposes of general utility, and
to,ttued
upon the House to give its deliberate attention
'''e subject. He now came to the report on criminal
orcsecutions which had been issued by the Committee
tit:r Which the Right Hon. Baronet presided, ar.d that
th °expressed a similar opinion with that he had read to
ietee ii,e"use. That conclusion had been partly carried
I,o,eeuvot, fel. in 1836 it was determined, while the Noble
et'' was in office, that the prosecutions in counties
Lcc.nlid be paid by the Government. However the Noble
e did not exactly carry out the re-
it: niendations made to him in that report.
pf Leeuld scarcely conceive, after the reading
isert"se reports, what answer the Government
ae 110 w prepared to give him ; or why the iecom-
le nnations made in 1834 sheuld not be carried out in
th4s. It would be in the recollection of the House that
the Government had sent doe n to the country inspectors
'llquire into the condition of prison discipline. They
eee,d
eke tight
ministerial instructions, and he (Mr. Miles)
rteti"eg.ut he had a right to ask that the expenses and the
likewise of prisoners committed for trial should
tetse be borne by the Government. The house
111,7 remember that the county rates were not levied
then,. tile farmers alone, but upon the tenant. It was
to mole cottager that vves called upon to pay them,
iteenth"tigh the aggregate amount must seem small
tierdsed heavily upon them, and its remission, without
ae,;llltt much to the expenditure of the Government,tre;",(i appear a step in the right direction, and be a re-
telilltien of a good principle. He would like%t ise ask,
in particular cases the expenses of the Coroner's
(474
tr rt should be remitti d. On the ceast bout s e ere
114-fitly washed ashore, the Coroner was obliged to
seu„,4ll ifiquest on them, lind the expenses time off the
rates. Ile asked thf m, in such a case as that, to
witl,ll: et least half the expetts-s. Another circumstance
tiest'll Pressed heavily neon the rate payers in counties,
gatethe exlienses ineurn el in printing the re-
tot •): of voter-, and this expense also, he
e,e:ved. should be bonne by the Government.mb
‘• would be aboet the total expense to the Govern-
k4l' supposing the w hole of th,se recommendations
106,41:reed to ? Let them take it it round numbers at
ttee'euCia, but, deducting something from that, the whole
deeVit would Lot exceed 350.000/. He had thus en-
tiee4ntrod, as shortly as possible, to bring before the no-
the 'ldle House the state of teuricultural distress and
at, itgrieultural interests generally. lie had called the
ati,•
I Weiee'l"n• of the Government to certain recommendations
eta " he conceived would be of the trtmest benefit to the
tetic,Ulturists, at the same time that he had pointed
let,t9le evils which peculiarly pressed upon them—more
Ntelecularly the poor-rates of the country. The con-
Itte4l;etee were more alive to the necessity that ex-
that the representatives should endeavour to carry
aeieZtetse objects—objects calculated to benefit that class
hh Placed the Right I ion. Baronet in the position
kane then held. It had been said that the rents
treiercen paid up, and that, therefore, the distress was
het, l'„,lltetnd could not be general. Such was not the
to
ssibeLho rents were paid up because it was quite
as e 'e for any person to hold a tenant upon his lands if
thathetnele
not meet his expenses. But it was a certain
lhet for the last few years they had not made any
kee, 1. There was a want of confidence in the measures
that ~;vc,oght forward by the Government ; they said
te,;°ettling could be worse than the position they now
41'0104, and it was but seldom that they heard now
keit re lips of her Majesty's Ministers any allusion to
keti.,tleterest. They stated that the few words given by
' tit Hon, Baronet to the agricultural interest, at the
1. line' his financial statement, filled them with distrust.
vasseerY same session in which the corn laws were
shield) they saw the duty on articles over which the
ke tithq Protection had been thrown suddenly removed,
neve: agriculturists very naturally said—" What is to
1,11(1 ei i;'' the corn-laws coming next ?"—(Hear, hear,
eers from the Opposition benches.) Looking at
illrteeeTr,"ens of agriculture, he said they had a right to
.Isa ea."„o, or if this protection was not afforded them, it
Nree -aling but right that they should be released from
die ticl! the taxes which pressed upon them. When he
1/11,1 lainol Ito was stating, not hie own opinion, but the
o-"kof the farmers, Who thought the Government would
;It al:" to restore their former prosperity by uphold-
.lklee-:,°,11-laws. It was a knowledge of this circum-
teere tb,;'"„teh had induced bjm to bring this subject be-
1' th,lenouse; but, at the same time, he must declare
11Q 41, °use that it was done without the sanction of
tie VtoUltural body Ho had thcught it necessary, in
i?ott,4l4lng this discussion upon the floor of the House of
° e Ilia", to state thei'sentiments of the farmers, and
ith'4t, " assure lion. Members that he had mentioned
liel
to which he did not sincerely and conscientiously
e founded in truth and justice; and it now
ettai'l !bor the House to say whether it affirmed or
resolutien.
e h 7,kIICH seconded the amendment, but after the able
, y 40% ".I.TteHt.on. Member__ for Somersetshire, he would tres-
-4.414 tme of the House but for a ve few
agricultural)miutes.
th2ea,„7, sent there to represent a large con-
thr4t
Who had returned him upon the firmdetermination
th"uld uphold agricuitural protection. He did not
Prefore, he should be doing his duty by them, if he did
Idiraeuthat occasion, express his entire concurrat ce in the
11", th hi propounded by his Hon. Friend. Every protection
4 ees' Iseen afforded to agricultural produce had, within the
af yea
>i, been reduced to an enormous extent, an extent
,411 e 40 his mind, was far greater than either the exigencies
cOtitTa es called for, or was compatible with the interests of
Vitato.'7. The agriculturists had a fair right to ask, not as
dN 1:3 bat as an act of justice, that they should be relieved
sbras Inc of the burdens of local taxation. Great
I,Tres, prevailed amongst the farmers of England—a
40_4 aeiwoehteh was sot peculiar to locality, but was
Itealeot ," in every part of the country. In support of this
eg I,‘ !"e could refer with confidence to the deputations
ikillstateaelted upon the Right Hon. Baronet . some time ago,
es lett, " to him their ideas and their sentiments upon the
heseetedis well as to the numerous petitions that had been
la.‘„ in to Parliament from many parts of the country.
hellliht 'red the corn-laws when they were originally
"rward, bat had he been aware that it was the
httli „Ili° introduce the Canada Corn-Bill, no power on
t 44 H 41(1 have induced him to say a word in their favour.
1141de ti,°"4' could not resist the appeal which had been
the 60,0-IrelieVe the agricultural distress under which they
401110 bna.Ebg• They did not ask the House to benefit
Sirthe
they
klYitviould not look in vain.
41,1° dee' ARAM, who was more than usually indistinct,
t4,7rd to ~‘" the intentions of her Majesty's Government with
reieraet`ue amendment proposed by the Hon. Member for
iklis4l,ki But before doing so, he would take the opportunity
11,2 laat ng the Bon. Member himself, and the Noble Lord
41,1)roti,stike, for the moderation and temper with which he
tlitsnst"O'b' the subject before the House. In the first place,
serve, that they were not discussing the extent or
latti_riety 5' pot. protection. Nor were they discussing the
)111'°11 te °1 continuing or discontinuing legislative pro•
is: had b agriculturiSts.—(llfar. ) His Honourable Friend
44%; het4°_,tight the amendment forward, had entered into
eta thuet!ils with reference to the condition of agricol-
Ntery.
Te distress which existed in the various parts of the
chtttot f 44 doing this his Hon. Friend had laid the founda-
h Or his motion on the paper which they were then dis-
)44 of
the rather for the repeal of the existing corn-laws—a
lkt Ns of Canada Corn Bull, or the re-consideration of some
tee %eh 'n en- tariff. Before glancing at some portions of
• ot,,eautiA_Teade by his Hon. Friend, he would first bring under
tt'tqa 67atiOttof the House what had been thefinancial policy
tiqiitifilyitclnment since the time they had first taken office.
Ite! d ad not been directed exclusively to the advancement
cd hit
act erest of the country, but he believed it was
litteted Mated they had adopted a course which was cal-
the Nts ealy to benefit one, but the whole of the existing
4,4iErst the country. It would be remembered, that when
a'rae into office they found a very considerable
Li' the revenue. There was a large expenditure
Zitt,'„4 tuner exceeded the public resources of the country.
.4t`f'etanT. it woUld also be recollected that the Right lion.
Itp,, tee Member for Portsmouth had some short time
(lie depreciated the continuance of this deficiency,
eSetttreeet legthotrt Honourable Gentleman determined that
t/ to tee was necessary on the part of the
th„,. t the demands of a declining exchequer. The
t 4 heGe'ntleman's Government, of which he was a dis-
tesildrev,M2lnber, applied a particular' remedy, and in doing
alt
the 4cisel:ii.n_dcarreg.a.veley
boyn
fitvhee resources of the consumer. They
that per cent. all the dila!! of cthusetomes
assessed taxes ten per cent. Now
klittillW's Eve pv.7142.t was well worthy of remark.eThepivno--.
th, e 6,,, torresn upon the consumer, so far from
Aigl• i;lestey art° niu7,llooog increase in the revenue, ft still
Ott'st, ,40n s„1.0 . Now what . was the pant-
, Y s „ this financial experiment taught her
ply the pep
Government ? Why it convinced them
reiteheeidita of indirect taxation had been abso-
-111% ktPeritv 01, and therefore, if they wished to restore
ad istrixi,;,,the.country. they mu-t abandon indirect taxa.-t
the ft be duvet tsxatien to a greater extent than
tikee year iii`47tore tested in a time of peace • consequently,
itoo'x4teeet the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the
hitt?: in7ade two propositions. He proposed the impost-
Itti?t :11.11;itiZettrifaneteada:ii .property-tax upon the country, from
bits c pro,i4ed
fo cipated that not ()Ay would the public
r, but an available surplus be obtained...
1,142 Lied tot , at the same time, that this aurplue ihonld
ilas 11 Riot tretnissit.a of indi
.rct taxation, and in te year
koi, 401/. • flan. Friend snidee a remission of no leshs than
WtherapitttiV"_an articles of raw material upon which im-
-16,,_• ate setae and eitensive labour was always employed. One
g Of the date on
rawmaterial consisted of timber, the remis-
Un Which not only gave large employment to

' the manufacturer, be' proved a eonsiderable relief to the landed
interest and the community. The results had shown that these
alterations had net been made rashly, and he hal the pleasu-e to
state that at that very moment, the effect of the remission of the
duty on timber was made known to him by a return which had
been placed i❑ his hand within the last few days, and which re-
turn was based upon the authority of an influential party re-
siding in Liverpool. The effect of the remission had been
a reduction in the price of 'American timber, far
less in the year 1,41 thati in the sear 1842. In 1641 the
price was fill. a foot ; but in 1842 the price was 41;1 ; and it
must be remembered that no portion of the community was
more benefited than the lani,ed interest. In a former portion
of his address, it would be remembered that he had stated that
hi- Right Hon. Friend made remissions to the ext, nt of
1,135,000/., of which 24 ',OOO/. was the proportion of the duties
imposed on coffee ; and upon 86 other articles, the aggregate
of whose duties amounted to 278,0001., there was a like re-
mission. In 1843 no further remission of the excise or cus-
toms duties were made; but in 1644, his 'ion. Friend proposed
a remission of the duty on wool, amounting to 100,0001. ; on
currants, 91,000/. ; and on coffee, 82,00('l. The remission of
the duty on wool proved a source of great pecuniary benefit to
the landed interest of the country. He was supported in
this opinion by the fact, that four months after the re-
mission was made, the price of British wool was considerably
increased, while before it was continually declining in value.
The effect of the measures proposed by the Right Honourable
Baronet in 1842 and 1844, taking them in conjunction with
the proposition which had lately been br ught forward, would
greatly contribute to the prosperity of the landed intere t of
England ; indeed, much more so than the removal of that
local taxation of which the Hon. Member for Somerset com-
plained. Then, again, the Government proposition relating
to sugar would have the effect of remitting taxation no less in
amount than 3,600,060/. ; but they fully anticipated that this
decrease in the revenue would be fully made up by the increased
consumption of that commodity. And all these reductions
would reduce the expenses of the farmer and the landed pro-
prietor to a great extent. They proposed, also, to reduce the
duty on cotton 2,200,0001., and on other materials, which
were articles of general e,insumption, 600, 000/., making in the
whole the removal of indirect taxation amounting to 2,431,000/.
In 1834 there were remissions upon stage coaches, vinegar,
glass, and ether articles, affecting the agricultural classes in
common with the rest of the community, amounting to 640,000/.
and taking these together with the remissions proposed by his
Right Hon. Friend, they amounted to 6,324,0001. ( Hear,
hear.) In these reductions, the agriculturists had participated
with the rest of the community--( Hear, hear)—and with all
this remission, there was still a considerable, and an augment..
ing surplus of revenue above expenditure—in the advantages
of which surplus the agricultural interest would share with
every other.—( Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend the Member
for Somerset' asked if the landed interest was not to have
►ome small participation in the benefit of the reduction of
taxation? Now, he (Sir J. Graham) thought that if his
Hon. Friend would look at the manner in which the income-
tax was contributed, he would see that the commercial and
other classes contributed in their proportion as much as the
agriculturist.—( Hear, hear.) But his Hon. Friend contended
that whilst the manufacturing and commercial classes had
been prosperous, the agriculturists were still in distress.
( Hear, hear, from the agricultural benches.) Now, in the
commencement of his speech the Hon. Gentleman said, that
the distress was general ; but towards the close, he made the
admission that it was not so. _ _

Mr. MILES—No, no; I did not.
Sir J. GRAHAM—Very well; the Hon. Gentleman would
still say that the distress was general in the United Kingdom.
—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Miles.) Very well ; let them
look to Ireland. Now, he was prepared to show that, in Ire-
land, the agriculturists had been more than usually prosperous.
since the tariff came into operation..“ Hear, hear.) In Scot-
land, again—and he could speak even more positively as to that
portion of the United Kingdom—agriculture had been prospe-
rous, and in no recent years had rent been paid so punctually
as in the last year.—(Cheers.) His Hon. Friend had, in his
speech, laid the foundation of a much larger motion ; and he
( Sir J. Graham) must say, that if the arguments of his Hon.
Friend were worthy of the attention of the House, the ques-
tion would net be whether some remission of two or three
hunrhed thousands should be granted, but whetht r the corn-
law. as it stood at present, should not be repealed, and the
tariff undergo a considerable modification, as far as re-
garded the importation of cattle.—( Ilene hear.) His Hon.
Friend had gone into statistical details, to show that the
importation of foreign corn in the last three years had been
very great. But it was to be remembered that, in two out of
the last three years, the production had been dec dcdly insuffi-
cient.—( Hear, hear.) sh hat, then, would have been the c ,n-
-dition of the people if foreign corn had not found its way into
the country in those years ?—( Hear, hear.) His Hon.
Friend forgot that the population of the country increased to
the amount of more than leo,ooo per annum, or at the rate of
more than 1,000 every forty- eight hours in the year.—( Hear,
hear.) What, then, would have been the condition of the
country, if it had not been for the importation of foreign corn ?
(Cher rs. ) There would probably have occurred a convul-
sion fatal to the landed interest, in common with every other.
—( Cheer s. ) His Hon. Friend went at last to the subject of
barley. Now, he should endeavour to illustrate the question
of the present corn-law by this very case of barley.—( Hear,
hear.) In the last year, the importation of barley had been
1,60 ,000 quarters; and this not suddenly, nor at a time of
scarcity, but only to meet a regular demand, week by week,
with a regular and equal return to the revenue.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. MILES—How much in the year?
Sir J. GRAHAM had heard somebody ask, bow much ? He
answered, 1,2e0,000 quarters.—( Hear, hear.) The returns
for the last ten years—( which the Right Hon. Baronet read in
detail, but in so low, hurried, and indistinct a tone, that it was
impossible to follow him clearly in these, more than in the
greater part of his numerical statements)—showed that, in
1844, when the importation of barley was the greatest, the price
of home-grown barley was the highest, except for two years.—
( Hear, hear.) This proved to him irresistibly the effect of an
increased supply producing an increased demand, by which the
agricultural interest had been materially benefited, instead of
injured.—(Cheers.) His Hon. Friend complained also of the
importation of Canadian corn, wlich he (Sir J. Graham) re-
garded as a most useful subsidiary to the corn-law of 1842.
( Hear, hear, and a laugh from the agricultural benches.)
The corn of Canada was prepared to be transmitted to
this country, as soon as the ice broke u", so as to arrive
early in June, and to prevent the ruinous effect which a sudden
rise, and the consequent influx of foreign corn at a later period
would have upon the producers of the ensuing harvest.—( Hear,
hear.) In that way, the importation of Canadian corn averted
the danger which he (Sir J. Graham) fairly admitted the
sliding scale was liable to.—(Cheers.) His Hon. Friend had
further contended that the agriculturists were entitled to com-
pensation for the injury they had sustained by the importation
of foreign cattle, dead and alive. This was a matter of figures,
and, in dealing with it, he should follow his Right Honourable
Friend the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, whom he was
sorry to see on the opposite side of the House.—(Cheers and a
laugh.) [The Right Hon. Baronet then read extracts to show
that the importation of foreign cattle, since the tariff, had been
so insignificant as in no degree to affect the market ;
but his figures were not beard in the gallery, even in
respect to one year or one item. ] Now, he would tell
his Honourable Friend what had a direct and immediate
tendency to lower the price of home-bred cattle. It was not
the importation of foreign cattle—in thousands or in tens of
thousands—it was the lowering of wages in the manufacturing
districts.—(Great cheering.) In the part of the country
where he resided, and which was altogether an agricultural
district, they looked not to the quantity of foreign corn or
cattle imported, but to the state of employment in the manu-
facturing districts.—(Cheers.) Their present dread was, not
lest there should be an increase of foreign importation, but that
there should be a relapse in the manufacturing districts—
(Cheers)— because there could be no depression of one class
of the community without the suffering of every other.—
(Cheers.) He (Sir James Graham) must say, as a landed
proprietor, that so small a demand on the part of the agricul-
turists never was made as that now put forward by his
Honourable Friend.—( Cheers and laughter.) His Honour-
able Friend had dwelt upon the poor-rate and the
county rates as peculiar burdens of the land. He did not
agree with hie Hon. Friend, but he would not now go into the
question in detail. He would confine himself to denying that the
present administration of the poor-law was injurious to the
labourers as to the rate-payers. The facts were, that from
1813 to the present year, whilst the population had increased
one-third, the number of paupers had decreased one-third;
and the rates had decreased from 16e. per head to 8.. 3d.—
( Hear, hear.) The total of the rates had diminished from
7,784,0001. to 6,848,0001., or about 1.000,0001.—( Hear,
hear.) His Hon. Friend had made little of the benefit to
ensue from the abolition of the cotton duties. Let them look to
the circumstances of those who depended on that manufacture.
The destitution of the hand-loom weavers was extensive in the
extreme ; but the interests of the manufacturers and the agri-
culturists were so extremely interwoven, that the one could not
well exit without the other. It was true that the handloom
weavers had their looms and their dwellings, and that their
wives arid their children worked for fifteen or sixteen hours
a day for the sake of earning 6s. a week ; but where was their
aid to come from? why it must be drawn from the land. The
Hon. Member then proceeded to speak of the rural police ; but
what was the fact with respect to them ? Why the Noble Lord
opposite did not rr &keit compulsory upon any county, but he left
those to adopt it that chose. He admitted,with his lion. Friend,
that the tithe commutation operated in some instances heavily
upon the land ; but the truth was, that the tithe-owner was origi-
nally a co- parcener with the soil, and the Tithe Commutation Act
had greatly assisted the landowner by cutting off the co-parcener
from the soil He (Sir J. Graham) thought he had now gone
through the various points by which the Hon. Member had
endeavoured to make out the claims of the landowners. Ho
would now advert to the remedies he had proposed. The first
was a general Inclosure Act; the second was with regard to
drainage. Now both these subjects had been under the in-
vestigation of the Government, and he believed he did not
speak too confidently when he said that his Noble Friend at the
head of the Woods and Forests would be enabled to lay on the
table of the House, during the present session, measures on
both those subjects.—( Hear, hear.) Another point taken by
his Hon. Friend was the allowing of malting for the purpose
of feeding cattle, and that point his Right Hon. Friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer was by no means averse to con-
sider.—( Hear, hear.) He now came to the next proposition
of the Hon. Member for Sornersetshire, which was that the
whole costs of prosecutions at assizes should be transferred
from the county rate to the public fund. A Committee of that
House had sat in 1834 on the subject, and very wisely, he
thought, an amendment had been made by the Government to
such a proposal. It was said if such a proposition was carried
that then counties would have no interest in preventing crime ;
the result was that the burden was agreed to be borne, half by
the county and half by the public. He thought it would not be
prudent to disturb the present arrangement, and place the
whole burden on the public purse. The Hon. Member for So-
mersetshire then proposed that the Executive Government
should interfere in the management of gaols. He did not see
the necessity of investing the government of gaols in the hands
of the Executive and taking it from the counties. The Com-
mittee oft 834 first proposed that district unions should be formed
and that they would have the management of highways. Now
he (Sir J. Graham) thought that such an arrangement might
be carried into effect with some benefit ; that the relief of the
poor and the management of highways might be worked well
together.—( Hear, hear.) As to the next proposition of the
Hon. Member, namely, that of statute labour, he believed that
it had been carried into effect. Most of the recommendations
of the Committee were important ; but he was afraid they had
been but slightly attended to. The Right Hon, Baronet then read
several of the recommendations of the Committee, and also do-
cuments, to show that they had most of them met with the
sanction of Parliament, but that a carelessness had been shown
in carrying them into effect. With respect to coroners, he
( Sir J. Graham) thought the throwing of half the expenses
of that officer en the public funds would be unrea-
sonable ; because it should be remembered that the rate-
payers elected the coroner, and they, therefore could not com-
plain at the payment of his expenses. He was ashamed to
have occupied the House so long ; he admitted that to him
this was no new proposition—it was an old friend of his.—
( Laughter.) He had the honour of being a Member of Lord
Grey's Government, and he then resisted it ; and again, in
1834 and in 1830 he had adopted the same course. In short,
whether in the Government or in the Opposition he had
strictly followed the same line of conduct, he had not changed
his opinions now, and he felt no hesitation in voting, therefore,
against the proposition of the lion. Member for Somersetshire,
lid for the motion that the Speaker do now leave the chair.
Mr. NEWDIGATE supported the proposition of the lion.
Memher for Sonteesessbjre. He thought the Right Hon.
Baronet had entirely thrown out many of the principles laid
down by his Hon. Friend. He rejoiced at the isrosperity of
the manufacturing interests, but he could not shut his eyes
to the declining state of agriculture. He thought if the speech

of the Rig it Hon. Baronet had been made earlier it might
have been some ground for the Hon. Member fer Somer-
I setshire postponing his motion. lle rejoiced in the imposition
of the income-tax as a step towards an improved system of
taxation ; hut he complained that in the reduction of
taxation which had been made in consequence, the ha- t
prosperous class had not been considered.—( Hear, hear. )
One might almost think. on looking at the spectacle exhibited
in that House, that the Hon. Member Co- Stockport was the
high-priest of free trade, and that those who sat on the Trea-
sury benches elsaunted responses to his sorg.—( Laughter. )
There were two portions of her Majesty's dominiee s in which
aericu tore was at present prosperous—lreland and Scotland—
and he supposed it was with reference to this that the Noble
Lord the Member for the City of London had said that " pr -
tection was the bane of agriculture "—a ;proposition which
had been cordially assented to by the Hon. Member for Sun-
derland, and ab'y and warmly supported by many on the
opposite side of the House. The only meaning which he
could attach to the expression was, that bicause
agriculture was not prosperous while protected, therefore, pro-
tection was its bane.—( Hear, hear.) The connexion appeared
to him not to be inevitable. There was another principle at
'work contemporaneously with protection. He was one of those
who thought that the monetary system of this country—
( Laughter )—had a principal influence on its productive powers,
and that system had been operating conjointly with what had
been termed the " bane of agriculture." In conclusion, he
must express his firm conviction that the Right Hon. Baronet
had not disproved the statements made by the Hon. Member
for Somer'etshire, and, therefore, not absolved them from the
obligation of affording to their constituents relief; and however
trill ng that relief might be, it would be taken as an '.ndieat'on
that if the distress increased, the relief would hereafter be ex:
tended. The Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and
Forests was, it appeared, engaged in considering many subjects
ticepls interesting to agriculture. He believed that that tact,
and the tone of the speech delivered by the Secretary of State
for the Home Department would have a most beneficial effect.
By such means many would be satisfied and assured ; being
made to feel that they had one of their own body, anti one who
did nut forget them, among her Majesty's principal ad-
visers.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the Hon. Gentleman had
done him the honour to allude to an expression which fell from
him at the very beginning of the session ' namely, that
" Protection was the bane of agriculture." Now, if that ex-
pression required any justification or proof, it would be given
by what had passed that night. The Hon. Gentleman who
brought forward the motion stated that in various instances
protection had been broken in upon. He went through the
different Bills which had been passed under the present
Government—the corn-law of 1842, the tariff of the same year,
and the Canada corn-bill of 1843. He did not venture,
however, to propose that any of those laws should be repealed ;
but having stated those Bills, he left the question, merely
proposing that the sum of 275,000/. should be taken off the
county rates.—( Hear, hear.) He was followed by the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment, in a speech which the Hon. Gentleman who had spoken
last declared to be so highly consolatory to the agricultural in-
terest, that it could not tail to have a beneficial effect upon the
country. Now what was it that the Right Hon. Gentleman
had said which was of so consolatory a nature ?—( Hear, hear. )
Did he propose to restore protection to its former high rate?
Or did he propose additional protection, to prevent the influx
of' cattle and corn from Canada ? Nothing of the kind. What
the Right Hon. Gentlemau said was, that the Legislature
ought to give progressive facilities for the impartation of
foreign commodities—(Cheers) that if persons wished
to know if a good price could be obtained for agricultural pro-
duce in his part of the country, the mode of ascertaining it was
to inquire into the state of Manchester and of Glasgow, to ask
what was the condition of the manufacturing districts in Eng-
land and Scotland, and if these were flourishing, then it was
expected that agriculture would flourish in a similar propor-
tion.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Was that any encourage-
ment to protection ?—( Hear, hear.) Was it not directly the
reverse ?—( Hear, hear.) Was it not showing that as they
had taken away protection, and encouraged the progress of
manufactures, they had afforded the means of improving agri
culture ?—( Hear, hear.) But as the Right Hon. Gentleman
had said there was a speech made the other night which had not
been answered—( Hear. hear)—which he did not believe very
well could be answered, and which showed in what manner pro-
tection was injurious to agriculture—he meant the admirable
anti powerful speech of the Hon. Member for Stockport.—
( Hear, hear.) Ile believed it might be shown with
regard to most articles, as that Hon. Member had shown with
regard to agriculture, that the consequence of legislative pro-
tection, while it appeared to be a favour to that particular class
which was protected, operated against all the other sections of
the community, anti therefore exposed that class to odium and
to envy ; he believed the consequence to be that it tended to
make men slovenly —( Hear, hear)--wanting, in energy in that
particular occupation ; and that it induced them to rely upon
an Act of the Legislature to secure to them a certain price in-
stead of relying upon their own skill and energy. That he
should be disposed to say with regard to almost any article.
He maintained that if ever there was a country which was dis-
tinguished at once by great energy and intelligence, and at the
same time by the possession of extensive capital, which was
ready to be employed in any enterprise that required
such employment, this was that country. Lat them rely then
upon that energy, intelligence, and capital ; let them look to
them for the means of wealth and for the encouragement of
prosperity, and let them not rely upon that broken reed which
might be obtained from legislative protection. He might say
this with regard to any article of manufacture, for which, in
former days, the manufacturers themselves sought protection
by legislative means.—( Hear, hear.) He was happy to say
that manufacturers, now-a-days, perceiving their great success
in foreign countries, and finding that they had not the smallest
need of that protection, had adopted sounder theories of com-
merce.—(Hear, hear.) But with regard to same of these
manufactures, there might have been an appearance of success
on the plan of restriction and monopoly, because there were
some articles of which no great quantity was consumed, and for
which there was no absolute necessity in the community. \ ow,
he would take one on which there was a monopoly in Holland,
and another in which there was a prohibitory duty in this country
—he referred to spices and silk. The world could live without
spices, and people could have articles of raiment without silk.
There was no absolute want of those articles. With regard to
articles of that kind there might be a very high price in pro-
portion to the demand, and legislative protection might to a
certain extent be successful with respect to a particular class,
though it were an injury to all the rest of the community. But
the agricultural body had no such advantage. While corn and
other articles of food were cheap, they might have a duty of
205., 405., or 595., and the community would not complain ;
but immediately articles of food reached a very high price,
there was naturally so much di-content that the system itself
broke down.—(Hear, hear.) That had been found to
be the operation of the system ever since 1815, when lie
was a Member of that House, though he was not
present at the debates on the corn-law, the farmers said that
nothing less than 80s. would be a remunerative price to them,
that it was impossible that they could live and carry on culti-
vation with a less price for their corn. Why at that day it
was impossible that any Legislature which had regard to the
peace of the country could attempt to maintain a law whirls
gave such a price as 80e. Well, the protection was relaxed, and
a new law passed. But that again was found too high. The
law of 1828 passed, and after a certain time there was a general
complaint against that law likewise. It was propo_ed in 1839
to alter that law, and he declared at that time that he was in
favour of a moderate fixed duty, and of a relaxation of the
system. Those who were placed in opposition to the Govern-
vernment of that day said, that the protection was not too
much, but ought to be maintained; that they would not throw
the law of 1818 into the lottery of legislation, that even if the
Government had come forward as an united Government,
which they were not, they would oppose any altera-
tion in the existing law. Well, a . change of
Government took place; and those who were apparently
in favour of protection, those who were against a relaxation of
the law, came into power. And what had they heard from the
Hon. Gentleman that night ? Why, they had heard that ever
since that time Parliament had been gradually breaking down
that protection; that it was bro ken down first by the corn-law
of 1842, then again by the tariff, and, lastly, by the Canada
Corn Bill of 1843. Therefore, the case was as he (Lord John
Russell) had represented it. Although it might sound very
well to talk of protecting native industry, and of giving that
important interest which was concerned in agriculture, a greater
security for the price of their produce than any interest in the
country. Although that might at first appear a very good
theory, yet, when they came in effect to free eighteen millions
of people to consume food at a certain high price to be fixed by
the L gislature, such was found to be the discontent, and, he
might add, such the danger in consequence, that every pru-
dent Government would say with the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman opposite, " Look at our iacreasing
population, and see whether it be safe to continue the law as it
is; if we cannot have free trade in corn immediately, let us
have corn brought in through some of our colonies ; let us, in
short, have some facility or other by which the extreme rigor
of the law may be made more tolerable, and by which this pro-
tection, which is said to be so necessary, may be less a protec-
tion in effect than it is in appearance."—( Hear, hear.) But
it might he said that, after all, even if this protection could not
be kept up to so high a pitch as was desired by those who
brought the Government into power for the purpose of main-
taining it, there was no reason why it should be a mischief ;
that it could, after all, be no bane to agriculture, even if it did
not do the good for the sake of which it was sought. But then
he came back to that argument which had been used so irre-
sistibly, and he said that by this legislation, which tended to
keep up a price which they could not maintain, they did give a
false reliance to the farmer—( Hear, hear)—they did induce
him to look to the law and not to hie own energy.—( Hear. )
They did 'each him to neglect those means upon which he
ought chiefly to depend—such means as economy, acti-
vity, and improved science, by leading him to think
that he had a landlord who went up to Parliament expressly
to take care, that whatever his cultivation might ba—be it.
slovenly, be it ignorant—there should be a high price secured
to him, and that lie need look no further than the Acts of the
Legislature for a proper remuneration, if he wished for a remu-
nerative price in the market. He would not detain the House
any further upon this point having, he thought, sufficiently shown
that this protection upon which the farmers relied was, as he
stated at the commencement of the session, " the bane of agri-
culture."—( Hear, hear.) Well, then, the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the First Lord of the Treasury had said the other night
that he ( Lord J. Russell) seemed to oscillate between
the two sides of the House, and that, although he
declared protection to be the " bane of agriculture,"
and although those words might sound very well, yet he did
not carry that theory into effect. Now, with regard to that
point, though he might be entirely mistaken in that view, if
two modes of doing away with protection were presented to
him—one, that of doing away with it suddenly and abruptly ;
the other, that of removing it cautiously and gradually—
in such a case, following the great authorities who had written
and spoken on this subject, lie should prefer the latter to the
former mode.—(Hear, hear.) But that was entirely as to the
means to he employed, it was not a question as to the policy
which ought to be adopted. There was no doubt im-
plied as to the end at which they ought to aim.
—( Hear, hear.) When he said that protection was a
bane to all the interests protected, but more especially a bane
to agriculture, and that they ought to do away with restriction
and monopoly, he was, in fact, following the words and senti-
ments of Mr. Ricardo. But at the same time, in the very page
in which Mr. Ricardo maintained that doctiine, he inserted the
word " cautiously," as a warning—though he was more of a
theoretical writer than a practical statesman—as a warning to
those who undertake this task, as to the circumspection with
which it ought to be carried into effect.—(Hear, hear. )
But, with regard to the general theory of this subject, he
might be allowed to make a quotation from another author,
who was still living, and whose name he would mention to the
House when he had read the passage. The words were so
much better than any he could use, the whole theory of com-
merce was so well stated in it, that he trusted the House
would forgive him for reading it. " The only beneficial care
that a Government can take of commerce is, to afford it pro-
tection in time of war, and to remove by treaties the restric-
tions placed on it by foreign Governments in time of peace,
while it abstained from placing on it, however plausible they
might seem, any restrictions of their own creating." " The
interest of a State consisted in the prosperity of the
whole, and it was contrary to sound policy to defend one class
at the expense of the others ; the only mode of ascertaining
the natural .limits of each was to let them 411 alone.''—
( Cheers.) Such was the opinion given many years ago, in a
pamphlet by Mr. Alexander Baring, the present Lord Ash-
burton—(Loud cheers)—it was marked by the sagacity, the
knowledge, and the distinguished talent that Noble Lord pose
sessed. —( Hear.) This then was his ( Lord J. Russell's)
opinion with regard to commerce in general, and he did not
think, therefore, they ahould gain anything by doing what