The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-03 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL 2.
Lord KENYON presented a petition from the Mayor,
Aldermen, and Common Council of the city of Exeter,
against the unqualified repeal of the Corporation and Test
Acts.—Ordered to be laid on the table.
On the motion of the Earl of SHAFTESBUTtY, thr.
Appropriation Bill was read a third time, and pasaed.
FINANCE COMMITTEE.
Sir ALF.X ANOKA GRANT, and others, brought up a
Message from the ?Louse. of Commons, requesting that their
Lordships would give permission to his Grace the Duke of
Wellington to attend, to-morrow, the Select Committee
appointed to inquire into the Receipts and Etpeni'hare of
r.:„ United Kingdom, and to be examined thereqn, if he
should think proper. , •
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY moved that the Noble
Duke might be at liberty to attend, in pursuance of the de-
sire of the Commons.—Agreed to.
The Duke of WELLINGTON then signified his wil-
lingness to attend, and give evidence.
Si' ALEXANDER GRANT, and others, brought up a
message from the Commons, requesting that their Lord-
ships might communicate a cdpy of the report of the Selert
Committee appointed to consider the nature and Operation
of the Game Laws.
The Messengers were subsequently informed that the re-
port would be communicated to the Commons puksnant to
their desire.
Mr. GORDON and others brought up the Comity Luna-
tics' Asylum Bill, and the Pauper Lunatics Regulation Bill.
The Earl of MALMESBURY thought that before
their Lordships entered upon the consideration 'of these
two important Bills, they ought to be furnished with every
possible information on the subject, with that, view he
moved that a
,message might be seat to the Commons re-
, questing that they might communicate a copy of the report
of the Select Committee appointed last year to consider the
state of pauper lunatics in the county of Middlesex,• and
also the state of County Lunatic Asylums.—Agreed to.
Lord TEYNHAM moved that there be laid before the
House certain returns respecting the sums of money levied
in England and Wales, for the support of the poor.
• Lord LAUDERDALE moved for returns of ;the aver-
age price of corn, from July, 1827, up to the latest period,
one solemn setting forth the average prices, according to
the existing system of taking them, and the other column
s etatiog what the averages would have been, if taken under
the Bth George IV., cap. 28, sec. 47.
The Noble Lord also moved that there l ;gilt be laid be-
fcre the House returns of the quantity of ivheat 'taken out
of bond, from July, 1827, to the latest p rind, up to which
the returns could be made.
On the motion of the Earl of ROs-SLYN other returns
respeceing the Corn Laws were ordered.
The Earl of DARNLEY, after some prefatory aserra-
tions, moved for returns of the number of deck and steerage
passenger's who had come to this countq from Ireland in
the several steam packets during the - years 1825, 1826,
and 1827, distinguishing the number that came in each
year.
Lord MELVILLE presented a petition from the College
of Eurgeons in Edinburgh, praying for the repeal of the
Corporation and Test Acts.
The Earl ofMALMESBURY moved folr a copy of the in-
' structions given to Mr. 'Jacob, when that gentleman was sent
out in 1827, to make inquiries respecting the prices of fo-
reign grain.—Orelered.
• The Noble Earl then presented a petition from certain
Dieventers of Christchurch, pra)ing for the repeal of the
Corporation- and Test Acts.
SUBJECTS FOR ANATOMICAL DISSECTION.
Lord CALTUORPE presented a petition from the
Plsyr:eians and Soxy,eoes of Birmingham, complaining of
the intonveniences the Medical profession laboured under
front the want of enhjects for dissection, and praying their
LordaLips to adopt means for removing such impediments.
The Drohc,, Lord zealously argued at considerable length OH
the ireparee;ee necessity of an immediate compliance with
the petitions oithis nature that had been brought before the

House.
Lord LAUDERDA.LE Loped there would always be
subjects sufficient for the itetruction of youth in the me,-
dical profession, but be depracAte4 lengthened public dis-
.cuseions on a subject like the present.
The petition was, we believe, oneaoc..onnt of some in-
forme2ity, withdrawn.
'rhe ids -Rill was read a third time, and passed.
Earl CAWDOR (in the absence of the Earl of Carttar•-
yen) snored U suspension of the standing orders No. 26
and 125.—The ;notion was then agreed to.
The Penryn Witntss Indemnity Bill was then read a
second time, committed, reported, engrossed, read a third
time, 'and passed.
CATHOLIC QXSSTION.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, As be understood that
the Repose would adjourn to-morrow for tee holydays,
begged to take the present opportunity of calling their
Lordships' attention to a subject . of the deepest import-
ance, which had on frequent occasions engaged the serious
consideration' of both Houses of Parliament; and would,
doubtless, be again discussed before their Lordships &tiring
tit:. present Session. The subject to which be alluded was
-contained in a petition he then held in his band, and which
proceeded from a coneideralel.e. ,nymber of his Majesty's
Roman Catholic subjects in Ireland, praying that the lion.
House would fix the earliest opportunity fob taking into
consideration the Jaws affecting them, and that the Govero-
ment would adopt measures for the speedy rethoval of their
grievances. In presenting the petition which he then
told, and which oon;.ained a full and complete account
of all those civil dieahilities eider which his Majesty's'
Roman Catholic subjects were forced to: labdur, and
of which its own character was sAcient to prove
the importance that attached itself to the sullest to
which it referred, ;IC would decline, :for the - Present,
making any obseryctieetts, did not a strong sense of dutii-
'revail upon him to eel:eta:se, in a few words, the ground,
:Ton wbiete with a mind teneitenged—(Hear, hear)—with
a determination as firm as it Was patine.—(Hear, hear,
bear)—with .a resolution strengthened dly the length of
time in whirit tine meaenre bad continued in ;eviiieeeing un-
<certainty, an.'. by a wive of the vast importance witigii ;l-
eached- itself to a subject, • which it was inipossible could
conger contieue undecided,--(llear, hear,)--he was found
eee,ain to corns forward as the hetlile, and yet the zealous
.edvocate of a cause, founded upon the ante basis-of justice
cud policy._(t beers.)—leis Lordship peoeiredttl to state
that lee was narrow prepared to fix a specific deer on which
he should bring the subject for dismission before the fioloft,
he would, however, Pike care that sufficient previous no,
tice should be given. He was anxious, as• he had before
said, in a few words, to ,state -he grounds upon which he
continued to he the warm friend toPAtfeolic Emancipation;
and altlioug;.' it was* not usual upon 5905.1 wasions to go
into a detail, ,felt himself called upon to aeon:A:et fur the
motives which shoult: influence him bringing the we-
enie before , their Lordships, end which for many reatoue
fee deemed to be most exoedient should precede the mea-
sure that had already come hefiere the House, and which
his Noble Friend near Hind (Lord iliolland): had given no-
tice of his intention to bring forward .for 'discussion at a
e'cry early period after the recess. Both subjects were
Antheybat analogous, WA, for the same reason which
influeeneed hint so form a judgment „en the one
which he was then engaged, he 4etined it bOtiti
• liti- •ind unwise to press the ' disenceion of
impolitic
er of When it became his duty to bring
fithfoeward the Tneaagp, he would then state more clearly and
explicitly the variotte ;motives which influenced him in the
course he had taken, and he would now , confine himself to
the chief reasons. It had not yet been mentioned whether
it was the intention of Government 10 renew the Act which
had been passed in both Houses of Paeliament, called
-" The Roman Catholic ~Association Act," and ve're.i.ch wesuld
expire during the present Sessien ; nor wag it his iMent;ohe
ut pwent to ask any question upOAl fire alject. , had.
on a former occasion stated instancesin-wl4ch. the existence
of the Catlu.lic Association had proved detrimehitf,l to the
best interests el the Catholics of Ireland.--=al le felt .10;irse4
that in many tances it hail ;. and yei 11'0)314 1.01
liimstif called trpog .to oppose the . introduction of any
ineasure to put down the Association,
misting circumstances,suet, because, under
attempt' Would he wicked
end nugatory. He could not, however, 'shut Lis eyes
. against the evils attending the existenee of such au Asso-
. cietion, and the ill-consequence, which and
mist continue to reeu!t, from soda a measure ;
4111
ypt he
could not see how a stop could in justice put to sukii
a ffstern, while Irelan3 was Permitteel ;to remain :6 it
was ; and the only way' to put down . illegal Asso-
ciations was, not by Jan's cf restrictinii—(lisa;•, bear,
hear)--but by laws of peace a4d clonciliation. eo4.
by allowing the public opinion of Ireland to pass through
these legal channels, by which• alone it Gould JIT rendered
effectually beneficial to the conntry',
.nod onducive the
strength and prosperity of the Empire.-7ee (C
beers- ) Those
were partly the motives which influenced Hero to come for-
ward in support of the measure--he dedlareol kninself an .
enemy to the Catholic Association as it 'inow exiatee, one.! •
be wished to secure the only means that could put a fiaal
stop to its operations, which wr, that of granting
Emencipation. There were, however, motives of a
weightier nature, and they' were' the sense which .he enter-
tained of the justice, the policy, the neceSsity, of conceding
to them those rights to which as British 4ubjeCts they were
entitled. The Noble'Marqtris again statid his inability for
owing any specific day for the introduction of the measure,

and- concluded by moving that the petition be read at length.
The petition was accordingly read; and,ordered to lay on
the table.
The Noble Marquis then presented petitions_ to the same
effect from the Roman Catholics of Roscommon and!Tip-
perary, which were laid on the table:
Lord HOLLAND rose, to preseit a petition from the
same source, and similar to that which his Noble Friend the
Marquis of Lansdowne had just submitted to their Lord-
ships, but embracing only a branch of the grievances under
which the Catholics of Ireland laboured. What the peti-
tioners complained of was the use of the epithets idolatrous
'and superstitious, in reference to - the doctrine of transub-
stantiation. All the individuals of the greatest weight, as
well in that as in the other House, who were opposed to the
claims of the Rornan Catholics, distinctly disclaimed any in-
tention to interfere`with the religious or speculative opi-
nionsof any part of his Majesty's subjects. Where, then,
was the necessity for denouncing those opinions as idola-
trous and superstitious? It might be urged that that
very obnoxious opinion with regard to the supremacy '
of the Pope, could only he reached through this denun-
ciation, but he (Lord Holland) hoped to be able to
Prove to their Lordships that such was not the case. The
doctrine of the supremacy of .the Pope did, indeed, include
the doctrine of transubstantiation, for it was one of the tenets
of the church over whin the Pope presided—but it was
net equally true that the doctrine of transubstantiation in
chided that of the supremacy of the Pope—there avers in
fact hundreds and thousands who believed in transubstan-
tiation, and who did not acknowledge the supremacy of the
Pope. The Greek and American Churches, for example,
both professed a belief in transubstantiation, and half the
Aniericatiand the entire of the Greek Church had no con-
nection whatever with the Papal See. History, and, in a
particular manner, the History of England, proved that
those doctrines were absolutely distinct. To whom were
the people of England indebted for the benefit of being re-
leased from Papal jurisdiction ? Who destroyed the power
of the Pope in England ?• Was it not Henry VIII. ? And
if any one during the reign of that Monarch had gone to
the foot of the throne, and demanded the Royal sanction to
a Bill, to exclude from the House of Parliament all those
who professed the doctrine of transubstantiation—What
would have been his Majesty's reply ? Fire and faggot !
Smithfield and the stake would have rewarded his temerity..
But that of which the petitioners justly complain, was
that this species of denunciation not only exchrded from the
benefits of the Constitution those who professed ,that doc-
trine, but tended to perpetuate animosity, and keep alive
in the minds of all those feelings of acrimony :-,nd hatred
which were equally contrary to the principles of both
Churches, for both taught charity and brotherly love. He
(Lord Holland) believed that the petitioners wished him to
found a motion on their petition, but lie thought that the
discussion on the general question would be sufficient.—
Ile should, therefore, allow the petition to rest on its own
merits with their Lordships.
The petition was then read.
Lord HOLL AND presented petitions from the Roman
Catholics of the King's County, and from a parish in Ire-
land, in favour of the Catholic Claims.
OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved that the House
should go into a Committee on the second reading of this
Bill. The amendments which he hail to propose, with
the exception of one, were merely verbal. He should not
therefore, at present detain the House by entering into
them ; but he had on! to propose, or rather to submit, to
the consideration of his Noble Friend, the Chief Justice
of the King's Bench, who had made so many useful amend-
ments throughout the Bill, which, in the absence of his
Noble Friend, he should of course not bring forward. It
referred to that clause which related to Lord Ellenbo-
rough's Act, concerning minor punishments to those who
had intended to commit murder, but had repented before
the crime was actually perpetrated. The Noble Lord (Ten-
terden) bad not included in his amendments the intention to
poison, supposing perhaps, that there was not time to repent
after the determination to administer poison. He (Lei d
L.) however, knew that such might be the case ; and
instanced the case-of Cascal, who, having determined to
murder his friend, bad attended him for three weeks, and
administered a part of the poison, but afterwards repented.
The Noble Marquis expressed his intention to move, on .the
third reading, that this exception should be left out, and
that the amendment should include poisoning, strangula-
tion, and drowning. He hoped their Lordships would not
object to the -Report being published to-morrow, and
moved that the third reading should take place on the first
day of sitting after the recess.
LAW OF EVIDENCE.
On the motion of the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, the
House went into a Committee on this Bill, which was
likewise read a second time. His Lordship expressed his
intention to take the same course by this Bill as the last.
The House then adjourned.