The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-15 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 15, 1845.

Co'onial-office had sanctioned the explanation; and therefore
he (Mr. Aglionby) would say that this was an agreement,
though Hon. Gentlemen opposite might say it was only " a
document." But, let its name be what it may, he had many
many times met Captain Fitzroy since, and conversed with
him upon the subject. Yet he (Mr. Aglionby) up to that
time had never heard of those letters, though he mentioned to
Captain Fitzroy what had already taken place on this subject.
Now, he would ask, what was the reason that those letters
which, no doubt, contained—
Sir ROBERT PEEL begged leave to remind the Hon.
Member that he ought to confine himself to his arguments, and
not assume the contents of a letter.
Mr. AGLIONBY—He begged pardon for having trans-
greased any rule of discussion, but at all events he believed it
was admitted that Lord Stanley had received those letters.—
He could not understand how these letters had been kept
secret. If he had been aware of this duplicity it would have
induced him as an individual to consult Lord Stanley on the
subject, and unless some explanation were given, he should
never be able to meet that Nebie Lord with anything like

allowance was made also to the retail dealers. He held in his
hand a bundle of letters from all parts of the country, and by
those he learned that the stocks in the hands of the retail
dealers were never so light as at the present moment. That it
was difficult, if not impossible, to ascertain the extent of the
stock in the hands of the raid' dealers, he was quite ready to
allow ; but he thought that this circumstance ought net to pre-
vent that justice should be done to wholesale dealers, and thus
obviate that stagnation in the trade which was now so
grievously felt, and he did hops that from these several consi-
derations her I4lajesty's Ministers would be moved to listen
with attention to the representations of the memorialists, and
with this hope he would leave the matter to the House and

case the article might be considered as one which came under the
Excise rather than the Customs. It being understood then
that it was the opinion of the House of Commons that a draw-
back should be allowed on sugar upon which the duty was paid,
and which remained in the Queen's stores, he thought, on this
account, it would be unwise if the Executive Government op-
posed itself to what appeared the prevailing opinion in the
House, but he trusted that they would be supported by the
House in resisting the demands of those, whether wholesale
dealers or retail grocers, who had not the same special grounds
of exemption. To this extent, therefore, he was willing
on the part of her Majesty's Government to make some pro-
vision by which the Treasury would be enabled not to restore
the whole amount of duty to those particular parties, but to
make them such compensation as would be equivalent to the
whole of the loss sustained by them ; that loss being estimated
to the period when the reduction was to be made. —( Hear. )
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that no person could suppose
the Government were actuated by any other motive or wish
than the protection of the public revenue. He thought that
case which the Right Hon. Baronet had taken into his con-
sideration was exactly the case put by the Right Hon. Gentle-
man the Member for Portsmouth. That case rested in the
first place en the justice of extending the time to the period con-
templated by the former Aet, and secondly in the certainty
that no fraud could be committed, and lw understood that the
Right Hon. Gentleman, taking the circarnstances into his
consideration, was prepared to consider the loss sustained by
those who paid the duty on sugar in bond, before the reduction
of the duty, and to make them s-Jrne compensation. Such
being the case, he thought his lion. Friend the Member for
Lambeth could not do better than withdraw his resolution,
and leave the matter in the hands of the Government. He sup-
posed that those parties so circumstanced would have a power
of making representations as to the arrangements Government
might think fit to make, and that it would be open to them, if
they thought any circumstances with regard to their case were
not fully considered, to make representations of those circum-
stances to the Government.
Mr. Alderman HUMPHREY was rejoiced that persons
who had paid the duty on sugar in those circumstances had
the assurance of the Right Hon. Baronet that they would
receive some remuneration for the money they had paid.
Mr. HAWES said, that after what had fallen from the
Right Hon. Baronet, he thought the proper course for him to
pursue would be to withdraw his resolution and leave the
matter in the hands of the Government.
Mr. WILLIAMS said, that as the Right Hon. Baronet
had admitted the principle of allowing a compensation to those
persons who had paid the duty on sugar which remained in the
Queen's stores, he thought that in justice he was bound to
carry out the principle, and deal in the same manner towards
those who had paid the duty, and removed the sugar to their
own warehouses, but who had not broken bulk. In that case,

the Government.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER trusted that
he should not seem to treat the motion of the Hon. Member
for Lambeth with want of attention. If he did oppose it, public
considerations alone induced his conduct. If he granted the
petition of the memorialists he would be doing injustice to all
other parties engaged in the trade. Now the petition which
the Hon. Gentleman had presented was from six of the whole-
sale sugar dealers in London, when the wholesale dealers
alone amounted to fifty-two. The Hon. Gentleman seemed
to think that these gentlemen conceived themselves taken by
surprise. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought that
if any person had observed the course of the debates during
last session, he must have conceived that one of the earliest mea-
sures this year would be some modification of the sugar duties.
So far as the time at which the change in the duties had been
proposed those parties had no cause of complaint, and, there.
fore, they had no fair claim for a return of duty. The effect
that the Government anticipated from this change in the duty
was a greatly increased consumption, which woulel make up for
any loss which the complainieg parties might sustain. The
Hon. Gentleman had grounded his claims for these parties on
precedent, and alluded to what had taken place some years ago
with respect to sugar. That precedent to which the
Honourable Gentleman referred he (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) thought was not analogous to the pre-
sent one. In that case no notice as in the present
case was given, se with the case of wine to which the Hon.
Gentleman had referred. Wine was an excisable article, and
therefore the course which had been adopted at the time of the
reduction of the duty upon it could not be taken now with

good faith.
Mr. HUTT could not see how the subject could be brought
before the House on Tuesday. Many motions of considerable
importance stood on the paper for that day, and he therefore
could not see how the question could be brought forward. He
did not think that the Hun. Gentleman the Under Secretary
for the Colonies would have displayed so much zeal to have
the matter discussed on Tuesday, had Le not been aware that
it was quite impossible that it could be brought forward.
Mr. HUME said there was a charge made against the
Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Colonies, and another
against the Colonial Department of the Government. Now,
he would suggest, that these two charges should be discussed
separately. Would it not be better for the Government to
take the one on an order day, when they could command time
and pest pone the personal charge until another occasion ? The
first question might be taken on Monday or Wednesday, but
he thought Monday the preferable day.
Sir R. PEEL said the sugar duties and other measures of
importance were to be brought forward on those days, and he
saw no reason why the New Zealand question could not come
under the consideration of the House on Tuesday.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL entirely agreed with the Hon.
Member for Montrose, whatever was the day mentioned. It
would be better to separate the personal charge against the
Noble Lord from that question which related to the govern-
ment of the colony of New Zealand. For his part, he wished
the question to be fully discussed, and every explanation given.
There was no doubt there would be a large majority to support
the Noble Lord ; bet the other question was invested with
more importance, and he hoped it would not be lost sight of.
New Zealand was an important colony, and, if rightly go-
verned, he thought it was destined to have a great influence on
that part of the world. He believed the 18,000 or 20,000
Englishmen residing there were destined to become the pro-
genitors of the future governors of that part of the world. The
correspondence which had taken place between the Colonial
Government and the New Zealand Company did net evince a
very goad spirit, but he hoped when the matter was brought
forward it would be discussed with more calmness.
Mr. HOPE said several of the important motions which
stool for Tuesday had been withdrawn, and he certainly enter-
tallied the idea of being enabled to bring the question forward
on that day.
Mr. COLLETT, as one of those who had a motion os the
paper for Tuesday, was quite prepared to postpone it, if it would
in any way convenience the Government.
The matter then dropped.
GREECE.

respect to sugar.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that upon this question he had
been dispo ed to adopt the line which the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had done, but yet,
upon mature deliberation, he had come to the conclusion that,
in the present instance, a case had been made out by the mer-
chants of London, who had signed the memorial, and he thought
that the House would not be acting justly by them if it did not
adopt some measures which would be calculated to afford them
the relief they prayed for. He thought that, under the pecu-
liar circumstances, it was the duty of the House to comply
with the whole of their demands, and to make such arrange-
ments as would mitigate the evils they complained of. The
sugar duties had been brought forward this session under cir-
cumstances totally unprecedented in the history of commercial
legislation. Last year they had passed a Bill, fixing the duties
up to the month of July.
An Hoer. AIRMERR—No: June.
Mr. L ABOUCH ERE—Well, June in this year ; and they
were now called upon, at an (*Hier period, to alter the very
spirit and letter of that Act. They were disturbing the ar-
rangements on which the parties connected with the sugar-trade
had calculated, and on which they had relied. They had a right
to conduct their commerce ia accordance with the principle
of that Act, and it would be a most unusual circumstance if
Parliament were to step in and disturb those arrangements.
lie did not wish to introduce matters which had been already
sufficiently discussed on the former evenings, and he would
therefore confine himself to this one particular. What did
Government do in this ease? They called upon the House to
effect a total change in the very measure they had passed the
year before. The respectable merchants who signed the memorial
begged the House aid the Government to renounce their inten-
tions with regard to the sugar du ies. He had stated last year,
and he teeeated again, that if the Government had settled the
question during the last session, they would have been spared
the difficulty of their present position. If they had settled the
property-tax also last session, they would also have avoided the
difficulties and perplexities which now attended that question.
How would this proposed measure affect the holders of sugar in
bond? They had purchased sugars in large quantities, at a con-
siderably higher rate of duty than would be levied under the
present measure proposed by the Government. The Right
Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said
that if Government granted this boon, it would be a departure
from established rule, and would furnish a dangerous prece-
dent. But he (Mr. Labouchere) thought that when
they could so much and so easily alleviate the
hardship endured by a large and respectable body of persons,
it was incumbent on them to do so. If Parliament had passed
a Bill for a year, and if they afterwards sought to disarrange
the settlement made so lately, it was but perfecly reasonable
that they should at least protect those individuals from the
losses which they might sustain by such a change in the
sugar duties. The Honourable Member for Lambeth had
sated that many persons in this town would be great
F u ffe re r s , and he knew of four houses in Liverpool that had at
that time in bond at least 550 tons of'' sugar, on which
they had paid duties to the amount of 6,0005. Was it fair or
just that these men should suffer to this extent by the proposed
alterations of the Government? Certainly not. He agreed
with the general principle pursued by the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, but he greatly doubted the propriety of the answer
returned by the Government to the memorialists. He greatly
doubted the propriety of, after having passed a measure for one
year, to seek to subvert it at the end of nine months ; and he
was of opinion, therefore, that Government should use all en-
deavours to mitigate the hardships to which the sugar mer-
chant* would be exposed by the alteration.
Sir H. DOUGLAS said that he had presented a petition, a
few days before, to the acme effect ; bat he was not aware that
any of the names of the persons who had signed the memorial
would be found attached to the petition. Of this he was cer
tain, that not one of the sugar refiners signed that memorial.
He had, after a careful consideration of the circumstances, come
to the conclusion that the representations of the memorialists
were founded in justice and in equity, and he world therefore
vote in favour of the motion.
Mr. AGLIONBY was anxious that some indulgence should
be extended to those smaller merchants who took sugar out of
the Queen's warehouses, to supply the present demand. Those
who had large funds could afford to purchase large stocks, and
to leave them in the Queen's warehouses for an indefinite pe-
riod ; but there was a still larger class of purchasers who were
obliged to remove from the Queen's stores what was required
for the present demand, and he thought it hard that they should
not have the same advantage as the other and more favoured
class.—( Hear. )
Mr. CARDWELL considered that the Government, in pro-
posing the Act of last session, for one year, did not pledge
themselves that no further alteration would take place until
that period were expired. 'I hey had been told in the me-
morial that the Act of last year had been passed for twelve
months, and that upon the faith of no change being made in it
merchants were induced to make large purchases. But every
body knew that some further alteration was intended.
Mr. F. BARLNG said he did not wish to trespass long upon
the time of the House, and therefore he would begin by saying
that this question had been discussed in a spirit of of hostility
more warm than he had been led to expect. But, then, he
should observe on the other hand, that if he were disappointed
by the manner in which this question had been met, he should
also be ready to admit that the circumstances with regard to
the importation of wine, and the bottling of it,
demanded some explanation. The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had given a
somemß iegr
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oi
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Government Thee
had said something to the effect that such an extension of
the excise laws would be made; and if so, he (Mr. Baring)
caldietnicargotaifeiwhnresir_pssoiwer to extensive
would ask why not also give a protection to the small dealers in
sugar, ?—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Baring) had been told that
the required relief would be found in the reduced prices of
sugar that would follow the proposed alterations ; but he
very much feared that no such result would follow.
Sir GEORGE CLERK said he did not rise for the
question ; but he begged to assure Hon.
purpose of defending the charges made against the Govern-
mMeenmtbeurpsoonppothsi iste, that the denial of the drawback, of which
they so much complained, would not be found to present so
many causes of complaint as appeared to be anticipated.
lie hoped the house would agree with his Right lion. Friend
oEulzelehbeeqauen dangerous precedent, and
heExchequer, that
that any deviation from the
th
e establishedwondered
Chancellor
practiceo E
that sluew
t e lien. Msmbere for Montrose, and others
who were the great advocates of economy, and always so 'care•
ful of the public purse, should recommend this sacrifice of the
revenue.
Mr. HUME said it was true that he had often had
occasion to complain of the extravagance of Ministers,
and of the House—( Hear, hear, and laughter)—but
he had never complained of justice.—( Loud cheers.) The
proposition of the Government in the present case was
not only against justice, but it was against the law.—( Hear.)
The Act of Parliament for the sugar duties now in force was to
have continued until the sth of July next ; and he had received
letters from Liverpool, London, and other places, stating that
the holders of sugar in bond had acted upon the understanding
that there might be some change in the law in July, but not
until then.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that the late Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had very properly pointed out the
difference, as to whether the alteration was to take place now
or in July.—( Hear, hear.) The parties who would he prepared
for an alteration in the law in July were now taken by sur-
prise.—( Hear, hear.) He agreed with his Right Hon. Friend
the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, that no cleinge of this
kind could take place without some loss to individuals.
But he never before heard, that where there was gross injus-
tice done, the House would not interfere to remedy that, be-
cause justice could not be completely done in all cases.—( Hear,
hear.) The practice of the Government in this case was
very sharp practice indeed—( Hear, hear)—and this was not
the case with regard to sugar alone, but every other exciseable
stock now on hand. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer
should read in the newspapers to-morrow what he had said this
evening, he would are that it was unworthy of a Minister of the
Crown. The House was bound to interfere to prevent in-
justice, which no consideration of revenue could warrant.
Sir ROBERT PEEL was sure the House would believe
that it was the wish of the Government to effect great com-
mercial changes with as little inconvenience as possible to in-
dividuals. He had received deputations from Liverpool, Lon-
don, and other places, and he appealed to the Hon. Members
who accompanied those deputations, whether he had not given
every manifestation of a desire to avoid injustice ?—( Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last accused the Go-
vernment of "sharp pr:ctiee," as if he were speaking of low
practitioners upon the outskirts of a profession. The Hen.
Member overlooked the fact that they (the Ministers) were
public men, actuated by no other influence than a desire for
the public interest.—( Hear, hear.) In the case which had
been referred to—that of the wine duty—what his Right Hon.
Friend the Secretary to the Treasury had said in his letter
was, that in the event of an increase of the duty it was not the
practice to add the increase to duty previously paid upon stock
still in bond.
Mr. Alderman HUMPHERY—Ii not the duty increased
upon stock still in bond ?
Sir R. PEEL did not think that a single case could be
shown where stock in bond, having paid the lower duty, was
afterwards charged with the increase. Ministers had felt it
their duty to adhere to the usual practice, at the same time
that they admitted that there would be a great loss to indi-
viduals, which they regretted.—( Hear.) Ile could not deny,
however, that it seemed to be the sense of the House, that in
this case there ought to be some amount of drawback.—( Hear,
hear.) But he did not believe that the late Chancellor of the
Exchequer or the late President of the Board of Trade would
give their opinion in favour of that view, if they did not think
that this was a special case calling for special consideration.—
( Hear, hear.) He had frequently supported them on similar
occasions, as in the case of the Danish Claims; and, on the
other hand, he had frequently received their support, for
she
believed that all men in office knew. what it was to have to con-
tend with pressure in these cases.—( Hear, hear.) lie thought
that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer proposed in this case that the total amount of drawback
which had been paid should be returned to the party who paid
it, but that, if in consequence of the reduction, and the keep-
ing back of stock, prices should rise, there should be no greater
amount of drawback than the actual loss.—( Hear.) He consi-
dered that Ministers had done their duty in adhering to the
general rule. But he understood the sense of the House, unin-
fluenced by party feeling, that this was a special case, and that
it did not necessarily lead to a precedent for other demands.—
(hear, hear.) He hoped the House would understand the
difference between sugar in bond in the Queen's warehouse,
under the seal of the Customs and that in the hands
of the general dealers.—( Hear, and cheers.): In this

no fraud could be committed.
The resolution was then withdrawn.
REFINED SUGAR.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he did
not think that the Hon. Gentleman opposite ( Sir W. Clay)
would act with prudence if he brought forward his motion with
respect to refined sugar, after the discussion which had just
taken place. The case of the refiners had a double aspect—
they had claims fer the sugar which was in bond, and on
which the duty had been paid, and they also put for-
ward claims on account of the sugar which had
been taken out of bond. Of course, with regard
to the sugar in bond which had paid the duty, the refiners
would participate in the general advantages which all other
persons similarly circumstanced would have. But the Hon.
Gentlemen would see that the other question was one of a dif-
ferent character, and that they had not the same claim upon
the sugar which was taken out of bond, and which they might
have exported.
Sir W. CLAY said that the case of the refiners was different
from the other persons who took sugar out of bond, because
the refiners must of necessity take it out, while the others need
not. The case of the refiners was not different from those
who had sugar in bond upon which the duty was paid, be-
cause it was impossible that any fraini could be committed
by them. The same concession, therefore, should be made in
their favour. On a former occasion, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said that the refiners
could take case of themselves, and that they had exported con-
siderable quantities of sugar. Now, he begged to say, that the
Right Hon. Gentleman was mistaken in the information he
had received on that subject. The refiners of London exported
very little, with the exception of one gentleman who exported
sixty tons of refined sugar. They did not ask for a remission
of the whole duty, but for a remission calculated for a given
number of weeks. He would not now call for any expression
of opinion on the part of t'se House, but he hoped the Right
[ion. Gentleman would consider the case of the refiners, which
was one of great hardship.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was under-
stood to say that he would state on Monday what he would do.
The case of tl.e refiners was somewhat different from the other
case ; but he held in his hand a return, from which it ap-
peared that forty-five thousand three hundred cwt. of
brown sugar and 1,0('0 cwt. of refined sugar was exported from
London, the drawbaek on which was received by the refiners.
If the House would allow him till Monday he would isquire
inte the subject and state what he would do.—( Ilear.)
Sir W. CLAY said that this statement was to him per-
fectly satisfactory, and he only hoped the details would be as
satisfactory as the plan.
Mr. HUME said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had postponed the further consideration till Monday, and he
must say that on all the points the statement appeared to show
a very satisfactory conclusion, but as time was afforded for
the consideration of those matters, he trusted that some infor-
mation would be given with respect to the exports. The
Right Hon. Baronet had stated that he was anxious to bring
about those changes with as little loss and unpleasantry to
individuals as possible ; and this, he thought, ought to be sa-
tisfactory through all the country.
SUGAR DUTIES.
The House then went into Committee on the Sugar Duties,
and on the clause for levying the duty on refined sugars,
Mr. HUME said that he wished to ask the Chaneellor of the
Exchequer, whether, as they were desirous that the colonies
should enjoy the advantage of protection, why they subjected
sugar which was introduced into this country from the East
Indies of the same quality as refined to a greater imposition
than that which was laid on refined? By this imposition there
was a duty of 2s. 4d. against the colonies. Now as the co-
lonies were a charge on the revenue of this country he could
not see any reason why there should be this imposition laid
upon that produce which ought to support the colonies ; he
could not see why this 2s. 4d. should be retained. He thought
the better plan would be to give two years after the 14th
March, when the new duties were to come into operation,
and then to alter the duty by the amount stated, so as to make
the duty upon sugar refined, but only equal to clayed sugar, the
same as that on clayed sugar. He wished to protect the public
against any combination of the sugar refiners, for he thought
that such a combination might very easily be entered into ; but
of the fifty-two sugar dealers in London he believed there were
twenty-four who were very large holders of stock. He could not
see why the growers of the East and West Indies were unable
to introduce any sugar in a refined state into this country.
He could not see why they should not avail themselves of the
advantages they possessed for refining, and so introduce it into
the country in a refined state, He knew it was the policy t 3
protect the manufactures of England ; but he thought that, in
the present instance, such a deviation from the usual policy
was for the benefit of England as well as of the colonies; and he
should, therefore, propose that instead of 18s. Bd. the duty at
the end of two years, the duty on refined sugar equal to clayed
sugar should be 16s. 4d., and that these words should be in-
serted after 18s. ad. in the clause.
On the amendment being put,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
Hon. Gentleman was proposing an amendment in 1845 which
would not come into operation till 1847. The fact was, that
refined sugar was introduced at the same . ate as Muscovado.
Mr. HUME said that perhaps it would be better to alter the
time from two years to six months; but he saw a difficulty, and
he would, if permitted, withdraw the motion.
The amendment was accordingly withdrawn.
On the 3d clause, which directs the imposition of classified
duties,
Mr. HAWES said that he had hoped that this system of
classification would not have been persisted in. He was certain
that the plan was so objectionable that he hoped the trade
would have influenced the decision of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and led him to withdraw
this plan altogether. He held a letter in his hand from a per-
son very largely engaged in the sugar trade, who stated that it
was utterly impossible to distinguish the several classes of sugar.
He could sot, in fact, understand the motives for the imposi •
than of these extra ditties on foreign sugars, buthe now thought
he saw the reason for them. The fact was, that foreign sugar.
generally speaking, was of a higher quality than colonial
sugar, and it was in order to prevent it coming into competition
with colonial sugars, that this duty was imposed. He thought it
was unfair that the consumer should be made to pay simply for
the sake of giving advantage to the colonists, and lie should feel
it his duty to take the sense of the House on the insertion of
this clause. He had lately had a communication from Amster-
dam, where they had got experience in the sugar trade, and it
stated positively that it was utterly impossible to distinguish
the qualities of sugars, for it very often happened that
sugars of an inferior sort were sold at higher prices
than those which were obtained for qualities rated as of a
superior description. At Liverpool a great sugar business was
done, and a friend from that place had written to him to say,
that if these classification duties were brought into play every
different parcel of sugar would have to pay a different duty,
and that many would have to employ a Custom-house officer
for every hogshead of sugar that was opened. The Govern-
ment ;Toposed to procure sample tests or standard samples, as
they called them, by steam and railroad, so as to rectify the
mistakes of provincial officers. But he would tell then) the
quality of those samples would alter every day. He had hoped
to have had the assistance of his Hon. Friend the Member for
Beverley (Mr. Hogg) on this occasion. He had had it on the
discussion of the duty on East India sugar, and he could not
understand on what princip'e ho did not vote on this occasion.
Much had been said about the American tariff. He held in
his hand a copy of that tariff, and he could assure the House
that there was no country in which sugar was introduced at
such low rates as in America ; and he, therefore, hoped that
this clasification of duty would not be retained. The Hon.
Member concluded by moving the omission of the clause.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that had
the Hon. Member for Lambeth been present at the discussion
of the duty on East India sugar he would have been
aware that every point to which he had addressed
himself had been very fully considered.—( Hear, hear. )
When the sugar trade was in its regular state the difficulty ap-
prehended by the Hon. Gentleman would not arise. The
sugars were sampled as delivered out of the ships for the pur-
poses of trade. After the immediate difficulty arising from the
first rush into the market, no difficulty would exist. The Hon.
Gentleman said he had received letters condemnatory of the
proposed plan. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had
received letters some condemning and some approving of the
plan, but many of the reasons alleged against the plan were in
reality strong reasons in its favour.
Mr. BRIGHT said he had had an opportunity of conversing
with a wholesale grocer, who had been present at the first sale
of Manilla sugar, and this person told him that great difficulty
arose from this classification. The reason assigned for this was
that it was felt impossible to tell what amount
of duty the sugar would be liable to under the new classifica-
tion. This individual expressed his conviction that this classi •
fication would be the source of endless difficulties to the trade.
If the Hon. Member divided the House, he should certainly
divide with him.
The clause was agreed to without a division.
Clauses 4 to 12 inclusive, were then agreed to.
On clause 13 being proposed,
Mr. HAWES complained of the clause as a departure from
the Warehousing Act.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the
clause was not such an infringement of that Act as would justify
the House in rejecting it. On inquiry, he had found that the
re-weighing cost the Government 8,000/. a year ; whilst the
variation was found to be only 14 lb. in 1,509 cwt. of sugar.
Mr. }FUME said, the proper course for the Government to
pursue, was to levy the duty on all the sugar that actually
went into consumption and no more. Why could not the
Chancellor of the Exchequer take an average of the quantity
of sugar in different warehouses, and make an allowance of
one per cent. ?
Alderman HUMPHREY said, the proposition of the Go-
vernment would he a premium for fraud.
Mr. FOSTER said it would cause great injustice, and no
individual would be satisfied.
Mr. HAWES said, the Government was undoing what
had been done by former Acts of Parliament. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer said it would effect a saving of 8,0001.
a year; but he thought it was a very large estimate. He

Mr. B. COCHRANE said he wished to ask a question of
the Right Hon. Baronet respecting the communication which
hal been held with France upon the affairs of Greece. He did
not wish to say anything which would interrupt the entente
cordial between this country and France. He was aware
that, whatever might be the nature of the conduct of
the Government, the people did not share in the feelings
of the Minister. He had been lately there, and had heard the
conduct of the Ministry denounced in the most unmeasured
terms, but, if there was any difficulty, he did not wish to open
the question, but he trusted such was not the case.
Sir 11. PEEL said that the opinion expressed on this oc-
casion was not, he thought, affected by anything which had
fallen font him. With respect to the country of Greece itself,
it was most desirable that the present attempt should prove
successful, for it was a great attempt to combine a popular
government with a limited monarchy. With respect to Sir Ed-
ward Lyon, he had heard some comments the other night on
naval officers ; but be believed that all would allow that in the
difficult position in which that gallant officer had been placed,
he had exhibited an example that the affairs of a great
country might with safety be committed to the care of a naval
officer. With respect to M. Piscatori, the Hon. Gentleman
most excuse him making any remarks. With respect to
General Church, he must say that he and every Member in
that House had joined in the expression of deep regret for the
removal of that gallant and distinguished officer from office.
He had served his country with ability 'and zeal for more
than twenty years, and what was the cause of the removal of
that distinguished officer? With respect to the loan promoted
by Russia, France, and this country, he believed that Greece
was ready to pay the burden of its debts. He felt sure the
House would excuse him for not expressing an opinion as to
the acts of the Government. He conceived it to be his duty
to respect the independent actions of the Government, and he
would rather not trust himself with the expression of his opi-
nion, however strongly he might feel on the occasion.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. _

Mr. WILLIAMS asked if the Right Hon. Baronet in-
tended bringing in the estimates on Monday?
it R. PEEL said that it had been his intention to bring
forward the Army and Navy Estimates before Easter, but
other matters of greater importance would prevent his doing
s). Those questions which affected the settlement of our com-
mercial policy, and the affairs of trade, must be first disposed of.
It was, however, absolutely neoessny that the Government
should have a vote of money before Easter, and he hoped the
House would make a sufficient grant, which would not at all
prejudice the discussion of the Estimates.
Mr. HUTT said that certain documents had been trans-
mitted to the Government by the East India Company, relative
to the trade in grain and flour, which had not been yet laid on
the table of the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
made some inquiries, but could not account for their non-pro-
duction.
Mr. HUTT said he had taken great pains to obtain this do-
cument. He spoke to the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir G.
Clerk) four or five times, and, finding it of no use, mentioned
the matter publicly to the House. Ile had offered to copy the
document himself, or send his servant to do it, but the offer
was declined, and the document had not been produced.
Really the business of the country ought to be more punctually
attended to.
Sir G. CLERK said he had made inquiry and found that
no official notice had been sent to the Board of Trade from
that House for the production of the document. He had
notwithstanding given directions that the paper should be laid
on the table of the House.
Mr. HUTT said he was the more anxious about it, because
he had intended to make a motion on corn and flour, grounded
upon this document, and that notice he intended to place on
the paper before Easter.
Sir R. PEEL said he would take care that the Hon. Mem-
ber should have the document.
THE SUGAR DUTIES.

On the motion thet the Speaker leave the ohair for going
into Committee on the Sugar Duties Bill,
Sir WILLIAM CLAY presented petitions on the sub-
ject, and
Mr. HAWES presented a petition from wholesale houses
in London, praying for a drawback of duty on sugar now in
bonded warehouses.
Sir W. CLAY, in the absence of Mr. Wallace, wished to
move, on going into Committee on the Sugar Duties Bi I, that
compensation be made to such refiners as have paid the duty of
2..a5. 3d. on their stocks undergoing the process of refin►ng,
and who shall not have had time to get quit thereof, previous
to the new scale of duties taking effect.
A long discussion ensued as to whether this motion or that
of Mr. Hawes, which followed on the paper, should have pre-
cedence. _

Sir R. PEEL observed that it was of the greatest import-
ance that, in respect to moving questions, they should adhere
implicitly to the rules of the House. However, he did not
wish, in consequence of mere technical formality, to prevent a
full discussion.
t Itimately the SPEAKER decided that Mr. Hawes's motion
should come on first, then the Bill be recommitted, after which
the other motions on the subject could be brought forward.
?fr. HAWES then moved " that provision be made in the
Hilt for the drawback of the amount of the duty reduced, on
such duty-paid sugar as now remains in the Queen's ware-
house," The course pursued by the Government in this
matter was altogether unusual. A change was about to be
made in one of the great articles of commerce at a most unu-
sual period—at a time too when the dealers in this commodity
were wholly unprepared for such a ehaege. A great quantity
of sums' lay in bonded warehouses in this country, over which
nobody had any control but the Government officers. How-
ever anxious the House might be to confer a great publio
benefit, he was sure they would be anxious to avoid doing so
with the certainty of causing great individual losses. If some
sush motion as he proposed were not sanctioned this would
certainly be the case. The petition he had that night presented
was signed by six of the principal London sugar dealers, and he
begged the earnest attention of the House to the situation of
tho-e individuals. Messrs. Conway and Co. had in bond
10,000 cwt. of sugar; Messrs. North and Co. more than
3,000, and Messrs. Stubbs and Co. about the same quantity.
Now, in one instance, there was a stock in hand of not less
than 550 tons, and one house had experienced a loss of not less
than 5.01)01., and several others between 2,000/. and 3,0001.
Not only was this the case with respect to houses in London,
but in the country also, as might at any time be seen by the
circular of the trade. Liverpool and London, two great
depots of sugar, the wholesale dealers there were in the habit of
retaining considerable stocks in their hands, for, in consequence
of railroads arid steam, the communication was so rapid that
the retail dea'ers could order whatever they required almost
from day to day, and thus the large houses were the parties
who held the stocks for present consumption. He (Mr. Hawes)
could draw precedents both from past times and the present. The
first precedent he would draw was from the year 1838, when the
Right Hon. Barnet was in office. They allowed the drawback
on glass. In the case of glass, the glass manufacturers had the
power of exporting glass, and demanding the drawback ; and if,
in consequence of any peculiar circumstances, the trade was
depressed, the merchants could resort to the Act of Parliament,
and get the drawback ; and this actually took place on one
occasion. The whole of the stock in hand was ex?orted, and
the foreign market was flooded. The Government then en-
tered into a compromise, and granted 75 per cent. reduction of
the duties. In the case of wine, also, the duty had
been remitted on the stocks in hand. In 1843 a me-
morial had been presented to the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
in the case of French wines, and the Right Hon. Gentleman
had promised that, although the negotiations with Portugal
had terminated without any favourable result, yet that, in any
future treaties, the claims of French wines should be attended
to; and with respect to the stocks in hand, the drawback was
always allowed—when the alteration of the duties took place,
in 1787, by the 27th Geo. 111., and when again, in 1814, by
the 54th Geo. 111., the drawback was allowed; and by 6th
Geo IV., in 1825, the draw back was again allowed. By the
Ist and 2d William IV., the duties were equalised, and the
drawback was again allowed. When application was made to
the Vtee-President of the Board of Trade, he had pro-
mised that, on the reduction of the duty, consideration
should be made for their case. Now the sugar on which the
remission of duty was prayed for, the goods were in the iden-
tical state, of the same colour, and in the identical place where
it was when the duty was paid. He held in his hand the me-
morial of the sugar dealers, upon whose representations the
Right T-lon. Baronet had said he had thus early brought on the
reduction of duty, and by that it appeared that the memorialists
did not expect the change at this unusual period of the year ;
and the memorial does not justify the argument which had
been used for the unusual course which had been pursued.
What the memorialists desired was a permanent set-
tlement of the question. The trade wished the continual
changes to wh;ch they were liable to be done away with—they
did not look for a settlement at this early period, and certainly
anticipated that time would be allowed them to work off their
stocks in hand, for, if not, they certainly would have invested
to the extent of the stocks which they held. It was the cus-
tom to make the vote for the sugar duty an annual duty, and
they desired that the fluctuations to which they were subjected
should be done away with by some permanent enactment. If
this early settlement, and not the permanent settlement, had
been the end the memorialists sought, their object would have
been attained. It was, however, said that the allowance to the
wholesale dealers would have been an injustice, unless the

trusted Hon. Members had heard enough to justify them in observing that the Right Hon. Baronet apposite ba,l/ser
voting for the omission of the clause. that he would go through as much of the Committee 013_ tee
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Corn- pie before Easter as would enable the House to agree weer
mittee divided, when the numbers were, Mutiny Act.
For the amendment 74 sity give rise to prolonged discussions, he thought th.,
Against it
Majority for the clause.. ..........
On the gallery being re-opened, Sir R. PEEL said that he did not intend to proposenAlDl
Mr. HUME was addressing the Committee. He wanted other estimates before Easter,' but those that were neeTe'S
the Chancellor of the Exchequer to explain how the propo:i- for the public service, such as the half-pay list, &c- v'e tee
tion could be said to be founded on economy ? take that. opportunity of saying, that he could not put
scree
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained motion of the Hon. Member for Somerset the same counnoS
that he had taken the opinions of those acquainted with the tion that had been put upon it by the Hon. Member foil
subject, and he was justified in adopting the measure. him (Mr. Bortheick. ) He thought it would be h1117„ell
Dr. BOW RING said, for the sake of saving 5,0001. a year for the House to affirm that resolution with leenot
to the Government, a gross injustice was about pledging itself to the remission of some tax or oto.llenOPievo
to be done. Applications had frequently been made to the pressed upon agriculture. As he was not prepared to
Treasury for a drawback of the duty on the waste of bonded in such a pledge he could not agree to the motion. os the
goods, and they lied seemed so equitable in principle, that they Alr. MILES would not refuse to answer the question je to
had again and again been conceded. Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell). His motion would en/100
Alderman HUAIPHREYS could not see the use of having the reduction of the county rates, and other burden"
such officers, or of having sugars under lock at all. He would land, to the amount of about 400,000/. no °bell
ask why not make the parties give securny for the sugars when Mr. BRIGHT wished to ask the Right Hon. Bare . ler
entered, and have no officers at all? it was his intention to put an end to the anxiety sebiesmor
Mr. II A WES said it appeared to him that the Chancellor of vaned on the subject of the cotton duties? With ;tid°
the Exchequer was putting his authority against that of Mr. tent Government—( A laugh)—the question could be t, the
Huskisson ; and he ( Mr. Hawes) would ask, Which was the five minutes. There was at present great difficult, eels
}louse to be led by? What was the object of warehousing manufacturing districts, in consequence of cotton belt* bei4
sugar at all ? It was, in fact, only making men pay a duty on held from the market, in the ',respect of the clutY
waste, white the object was to prevent fraud, by compelling them speedily taken off. itter
to pay duty on first-class sugar, and thus increase the revenue. Sir R. PEEL said that he would bring on the CoMe/
Now he did not think this should be persevered in ; and if it soon as possible. he &I'.
should, he now would give notice that on bringing up the re- The House then proceeded to the other orders of t
port he would move for the omission of the clause. The Bastardy Bill was read a third time, and pawed'
Mr. HUeIE said he understood that the actual waste on a NEW ZEALAND—LORD STANLEYecietsl
ton of sugar, after it had been warehoused, was about three Lo-d EBRINGTON said that the Noble Lord the
WI
cwt., and, therefore, nothing could be more unjust than to for the Colonies stood amused, for nearly a yearnl,l,nipse/'
make the merchant pay for that. If the Bill were to pass under grave charges, brought by the New ZealanL'", toe,
with these imperfections, he would say it was a mode of retro- and he wished to ask whether any answer was inteua°6
grading that would be most unwise. given to those charges?
elel Stn
Alderman HUMPHREYS would ask the Chancellor of the Mr. HOPE said that the charge against Lord 01110
Exchequer to suppose that one of the weighers could not write beets made in that House only two or three days age, d,
the figures in his Blue-book, and, therefore, he passed a quan- House might be assured that it would be fully answer. 4 tiser,
tity of !tiger a quarter of a cwt. short, then the Crown would The Infeftments Bill (Scotland) was read a a
see°
be defrauded by employing such officers, and yet such were not and ordered to he reported. „s
unfrequent. ATMOSPHERIC RAILWAY. ether'
Mr. MILNER GIBSON begged to draw attention to a Mr. SHAW said that at that late Ise,ur of thenigtee fi,
fact which this Bill presented. He understood by it that mo- not mean to occupy the time of the House in e 5.6,1,41;
lasses were to be admitted at a duty of Bs. 9d. from all foreign a select committee to inquire into the Prleci:too6
countries from which sugar should be admissible. Now, the the atmospheric railway. He asked far the aPP°'-nepot/
6th cause gave a power to admit sugar at a duty of 28s 9d. of the Committee principally en the ground of rgeteellr
from countries under reciprocity treaties, but there was no of the Board of Trade, which stated that the anatospeetoin,
p:ovision for admitting molasses from these countries. tem had succeeded in a mechanical point of en yes bat rion'b
The clause was then agreed to ; and clauses 15 and 16 were success in a commercial point of view was doubtful.
bed
bee
next agreed to, without discussion. would ask for a Committee even on that ground. lt %ore;
Mr. RICARDO would like to know how white clayed tried in the Dublin and Dalkey line, and was found to. Poi. go
sugar could he distinguished from brown, by sample, in ten and it was about to be established in two lines in Engea.,tioss
years hence? thought that it was most important to decide the eu" •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that this important period of railway speculation. tie°' tie;
•
the Bill contained
,a provision for renewing the sample from Mr.sWARBURTON said he would oppose them sor
time to time. cause he did not see why a different principle should betbrer
Mr. M. GIBSON could not see why the preamble of this in this case from what was applied in the case of all °
Act should not set forth the fact, that it was merely intended vention. Let the atmospheric principle be proved by
opery
as a protection to East India proprietors.—( Hear, hear.) ment, and then it would be easily introduced. west re
Mr. BRIGHT believed that the question was now better Mr. HODGSON HINDE agreed very much in _hoer
understood in the country than it had ever been before. Hon. fallen from the lion. Member. He had no objection. reeves
Gentlemen connected with the West India interest must not to an inquiry into the merits of the atmospheric
'J'ensot
imagine that the question was finally settled. Next year, when though he believed it would have very
scale,lit Irenee!,/,
the question would be brought forward scale, a more deter- until the results of the experiments wernionesenn
mined opposition would be made to the passing of this measure, but he was afraid that order his Right 11 Did ,tr
and he trusted that the opposition would be backed by an in- Friend's motion there lurked an intention of letr/lesefty
crease of public opinion. He h.,ped that Hon. Gentlemen railway Bills before the House. There were two moo !llg.t
opposite would take warning and cultivate their estates to the question. Not only were there engineers who
d°,nevrt
utmost possible extent. He entered his protest against this success of the experiment in a mercantile point of.
Bill, as one that was altogether unjust. there were many who doubted it in a mechanical pole' ,so
Mr. BORTHWICK contended that pratection to the West and he could see no reason for supposing that the Ilnuseeptiet.
India interest had been rendered necessary by the legislation of settle the difficulty. At all events, he should object totelet;, tor
that House. ment of the Committee, if the progress of the railwar
his
Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to say a few words upon a impeded by if it.
subject concerning which he had addressed the House on a Lord HOWICK said it would have been well to tlsida
former eccasion. He alluded to emigration to the West Indies Friend had applied a little of his usual acatenet pe;
and to the Mauritius. This country, which had done so much question. A Committee had been asked to assist Abe
for the destruction of slavery, should take care that no course in forming an opinion. It so happened, in the Prose n lipe6;
was permitted which would revive it. lie had received seve- great number of railway Bills had been proposed to theero
3e,
rat letters from persons who were related to missionaries, and In two or three cases the competition was between soic'oporb;
who stated that considerable alarm existed in consequence of atmospheric line, and a prcpesed line upon the
steete.te
some proclamations which had been issued regarding emigres- plan. Mr. Stephereton, the only enginees who oleos, Kti,
tion. When he had spoken on the subject before, he adverted atmospheric principle, had stated before them 110 of ie
to Jamaica, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer told him that on the very first trial which had been akeoolo°ol
a loan had been made for the purpose of emigration. He it had exceeded both in safety and in speed the Ualed
(Lord J. Russell) was informed that a proclamation had been system after sixteen or seventeen }ears-b°Oen.,
issued sanctioning loans for the purpose of emigration. Thus other hand, engineers of the greatest eminencesireeh
he thought it was only proper that the Government should lay that the atmospheric system combined great spa areP;if
all the information they possessed on this important matter be. feet safety; arid in a commercial point of view, it ePlOe94denic
fore the House. Previous to any measure regarding sugar the expense of working a line upon that system via' ocin,
being sanctioned by Parliament. they should be aware in what mile, while that of the other mode was Is. 2den. ores
manner Gov.rnusesst approved of what had been done regard- proved. They ought to inquire into the merits of thelo° eoeet,
ing emigration. It was said that the Noble Lord the Secre- as the time must come when it, the atmospheric sYsteneibl i
tl
tary for the Colonies some time ago stated that it was in contem- supersede the present one. If they did not they w/orth
plation to propose a guarantee for such loans. t•e wished to the whole question over the Kent, the Cornish, and tegleq;
know s'hether it was really intended to introduce any Bill on brian lints. He knew the Board of Trade could lot teseseed
the subject? the inquiry, from the mass of business it had to get 10,
Sir W. JAMES denied that a single farthing would be put into hut the appointment of the Committee, instead ,t)
the pockets of the planters by the proposed ethange. When the pi ogress of the present railway Bills throng
the Hon. Member for Durham (Mr. Bright) was Chancellor merit, would, no the contrary, expedite them•
Lord
of the Exchequer, which no doubt he expected to become one Sir GEORGE CLERK said the Noble won.
day nr another, but which might God avert, said the Hon. given a most able panegyric on the $ voi
Member earnestly.—( Laughter.) When the Hon. Member system, but lie had also furnished reasons 01"
had attained that position and entirely removed protection from Committee should not be appointed. The Coo„ „s of 9
the colonies, then their ruin would speedily follow. last sessi n elicited all the facts, but they bad Tio mean beer
Alr. HOPE said he could assure the Noble Lord there were perly knowing what the expense of the system ns).upteiefrito
no grounds whatever for his apprehension. It was an erro- lines where the traffic would require large steam-entlineel et
neous supposition that there was not now sufficient work for stant action. The experiment on the Kingston an most Ali
the emigrants in the Mauritius and West Indian c donies. was not suffieient, and, without any prejudice 911,teeTsot
Since the Government had taken up the system, there was atmospheric principle, he did not think the COOl/°"tnee
theiv,
abundance of employment. Some might be unemployed there, be productive of any good. It would not influel
but they were persons unfit for agricultural labour. The Go- Committee, and would much retard the progress 0
vernment would have no hesitation in producing all the papers. ing Bills.
Lord HOWICK said that he had no desire that emigration, Air. BARKER did . not think the atmospherleoPritill?.,
however desirable in other respects, should be eari ied on by would ever succeed, but he would not do auythlng
means of these loans. prevent a fair trial of the experiment. /*Wig
Mr. HOPE said that there was no report from Antigua. Mr, W. R. COLLETT did not think that the
eet
MP. P. M. STEWART said that all the West Indies re- this subject could be of any importance, unless v
quired was a sufficiency of labour. They were told that there private Committee. The eyes of Europe, he might
e otlo
was a sufficiency of labourers to be obtained at Penang and Sin- now on this country, and upon its decision would d ptod.
gapore, and that they could lie obtained in any numbers ; but ther other lines now in contemplation would be con3P'wele,
in the present state of the West Indies, he did not think that it Air. AI. J. O'CONNELL said, great interest!, be
would be advisable to het upon the licences. The Hon. Alem- stake in railways, and therefore he hoped it sols.' 0.01
ber for Durham (Mr. Bright) had said that it was a good plan turely considered. He was himself rather seeP/1000
to kick a man when he was down, but he would beg to tell yet he hoped the appointment of the Comm tee -•
std
the "on. Member that they yet retained sufficient vitality in be opposed. • t
them to resist any attack that they could bring. The Hon. Mr. RICARDO could not see how this prelectios off
Member for Northumberland said that there was no want of opposed merely because it, had hitherto been tried e° foe
labourers in the West Indies, but he would ask the Hon. Mere- lines. If the power had been given for making of
ber what would be the state of their cotton factories if they they would have been made also. setit
deprived them of labour ;he had said that without labour it Sir R. PEEL said he would be in favour oft
r fine
would be impossible to continue the manufactures of this Committee, though he could not see what would re'dvestie
country.—( Hear.) for the public alone were the party to decide as t°00,9
Sir W. JAMES explained, amid much interruption, and said should be adopted. He was himself in favour of the
from se
that he only wished to say that if they would give the West ric plan, but he could not see what good could f 411000,14
Indies plenty of labour, they would beat slave-grown sugar appointment of the Committee. However, be Jet
out of the market. oppose it. 11/4
Mr. HOPE believed that all the papers which contained the After a few words from Lord EBRINGTON eso,
110')
instructions had been sent out for the transmission of la- GILL, the motion was agreed to. ewe'
bnurers to the West Indies. He believed that the difficulty Mr. en HA W hoped the Committee would be .01.
was this :--the vessels which had been sent out to carry the Monday next.
Chinese had not been sent direct to Sinteapore, and on theirROBERT PEEL, in answer to a questions°l
Sir ROB 00
arrival at the island the shipping agent did not perfectly under- appointment of this Committee would not interfere ty
stand the instructions which he had received, and he declined general progress of railway business.
to act upon them. The other orders of the day were then disposed
The Bill was then passed through Committee, the Chairman Hou-e adjourned at halt-, act One o'Clock.
reported progress, and the report was ordered to be brought uo
on Monday next.
On the inquiry of an HON. MEMBER,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the
Customs' Puti's Bill would be taken the first thing on Monday.
NEW ZEALAND.
Lord EBRINGTON wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet
at the head of the Government when the discussion on the New
Zealand business would take place ?
Sir R. PEEL replied, that though it was inconvenient to
say on what day the discussion would be taken, in consequence
of the indisposition of his Noble Friend, yet he would, for the
present, appoint Tuesday.
COTTON DUTIES.
Mr. THORNELY said that he did not know whether the
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government was aware
of the quantity of cotton now waiting for the decision respecting
the duty. He believed there was as much as 300,000 bales
now in the country, and he should be glad therefore to know
on what day the consideration of the duties would be
brought on.
Sir 11. PEEL said that it should be brought on as soon as
possible, but it was evidently clear that it was out of his power
to force the business of the country. The House sat frequently
from twelve at noon till twelve at night, with little intermis-
sion, but the cotton duties should be brought on as soon as an
opportunity could be provided.
AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.
After frequent calls from the Opposition beneltes,
Mr. MILES said that he would not interrupt the Corn-
mittee.—( Hear, hear, and cries of "Go on," "Go on.") He
thought that it was at his own option whether he went on or
not, and helwould not go on at that time of the night. Great
aspersions had cone abroad, the most gross calumnies, that the
friends with whom he acted were only going into a. sham
battle—(lronical cheers for some moments)—now what they de-
sired was a fair, stand up fight, and they wished to show that
the distress among the agriculturists was deep and widely sprea4.
Mr. HUME wished much to know what the fight was to
be abort.
Mr. FERR AND slid he would tell the Hon. Member for
Montrose what it was to be about. The Right Hon. Baronet
the Secretat y for the Home Department had stated the other
night that distress was prevalent and serious among the agri-
cultural labourers, that it could be no longer neglected. Now
he (Mr. Ferrand) would tell the Bight Hon. Baronet that not
only was the distress treat among the labourers, but that
thousands and thousands of farmers in England were at this
moment insolvent and ruine•l by the measures of the present
Government since the came into office. —( Hear, hear)
—and the fight was to show that this was the case. If the
Right Hon. Baronet was sincere in his regard for the
labourer, why did he not allow the Committee—( Hear, hear)
—asked for by the Hon. Member for Stockport (Mr.Cobden)?
Why did he not meet the challenge which that Hon. Me über
threw out to him ?—( Rear, hear.) In saying this he would
tell them why he did not vote for that Committee. He
did not vote because he was for the protection of the agricul-
turist and not for his destruction.—( Hear, hear.)
The motion of his Honourable Friend was intended to
protect the agriculturist, and he hoped he would persevere.
Her Majesty's Government had forfeited—and forfeited de-
servedly, the confidence of the agricultural interests. They
obtained power by making the agricultural interests believe
that they were their best friends. They had the confidence of
those who sat behind them, and his firm conviction was, that
if another dissolution of Parliament should take place they i rue
might rest assured that instead if a majority of ninety, they -eG FIRE IN THE CITY Yes'
would be in s minority of two nineties.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK said, that the Hon. Member for
Knaresborough had risen to answer a question put by the
Hon. Member for Montrose, but he had not done so in the
manner the Hots. Gentleman had expected.--( Hear, hear. )
They could all affirm the proposition of the Hon. Member for
Somersetshire ; but what, under Heaven, did his proposition
amount to? They all were agreed that the interests of all
classes ought to be rightly considered. Ile trusted that the
agricultural section of the Hou m would set up some real and
not abstract principle. He had heard from those (the l'ory)
benches that restrictions in trade were owing to the Whig
Lord—(Laughter)—and the aristocracy of England—
( Laughter)—and he had heard from the opposite benches
that the truest and the best friends were the free-traders. But
the Hon. Member for Somersetshire, had put a proposition
which might be equally coincided in by the Hon. Member
himself, and by the Hon. Member for Stockport. Why if
they carried the resolution it only affirmed that the House
thought the agricultural interests deserving of consideration.
Whatever intention the Hon. Member had in bringing for-
ward the subject, the result was, that it served only to mystify
and delude the farmers of England. The free-traders called
themselves the farmers' friends, the Hon. Member for Somer-
setshire, called himself the farmers' friend, and the Government
called themselves the farmers' friends, and among them the far-
mer were suffering most intensely from the proceedings of their
friends.—( Laughter. )
Lord JOHN RUSSELL would not trouble the House at
all at this time, but as the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Miles) had
put off to Alonday next the motion of which he had given
notice for to-night, he thought the Hon. Gentleman ought to
let the House know what were the particular taxes
which he would promise to be remitted.—( Hear.) As
he was on his legs he would take the opportunity of

POLICE INTELLIGENC
(Y ESTE R DAY.)

MANSION-HOUSE.
John Crellier, a licensed victualler, in Mark-lane," ia
with a violent assault upon an omnibus conductor.
Chapman, the complainant, stated, that pfter tee-
aeolol
the preceding night, the defendant assaulted hilnls Tbs, ti/
without having received the slightest provocatioa. ty
fendant, who was accompanied by a drunken IrfarL'orrfaitii
omnibus in the Poultry, but the complainant °lceth."or
condition in which his companion was, refused to gl
era/tad
mission. The defendant was exasperated at this crib %if°
struck the complainant, accompanying the blow rite IcAit
language. That offence, however, was perraitteoi cately
impunity, and the omnibus passed on till it reacheav pet
when it was hailed by a gentleman, who wished` thetf,
inside. The defendant took the opportunity t1,00;e1
tleman not to allow the lady to go with such hem,i, 00 pr
the complainant having stated the facts, tlf bolk
whereupon the defendant knocked the complainalib ot!
was then handed over to the care of the police. 4410
The principal parts of the statement of the coroP. tDJ
confirmed by a witness. a or ° bc#4
The defendant said that he had been abused had Os° am
the complainant before he raised his hand. He k arl°-10,
kicked in the stomach by the complainant, who too fle
of the elevation of the footboard to make the atteck"„el cla6act.
positively denied that his friend was at all drunk• a",000'
that it was quite impossible to endure the insolent 41
"ai
the eonductor. oirlo?
The Loan MAYOR asked whether the person t,..
panied the &fondant was present? The defentlano
Lord ,he knows nothing about it; but I cart Pr° he
witnesses that I was struck first. hot .0•11
The Loan Alaroit— Your witnesses should have cooll°,
I have the evidence upon oath that you struck the
oi r
repeatedly, Coe°
The Lord Mayor and Sir John Pirie having fel
gether,
His 'LoRDSIdIY said that he and his brother rag /
of opinion that the conduct of the defendant setae hot f;
reprehensible, inasmuch as,- being a publican. i!bui,
voured to obtrude a drunken man into an °malt, sliagell
sented the very proaer refusal of the conductor
00 ie
passengers to be disgusted and insulted by a Per2ereforb'
condition. The sentence upon the defendant, tu 400
that he be fined the sum of 31., and, in default of Pal
he be imprisoned for one month.
The tine was immediately paid.

0
-- - ,
Of i
CHARGE or FORGERY.—The inspector f
.ka.
Rochester recAved instructions from the Board (le /Q;
to apprehend Mr. Frederick Janes, the collectied or- ,
the Custom •house, Rochester ; the officer Procec,oll44
Wednesday afternoon and apprehended the J litio j
whilst he was attending to the duties of his ofal OA
soner is the son of Mr. Janes, a respectable eeiTheoli.li
who has resided in Rochester for many Yea"' uer, be
against him is for obtaining from the comptre „0 t 4
Sawyers, Esq., 121. 10s. on producing a receipt Wsti.,
nature of Mr. Simmons, a blockmaker, residingra,h7
end, who had sent in his account to the Ca,3T,lel
0,
payment. It is stated that there are other ea'' ,
the prisoner.
terCILICIP

ALARMING EIRE IN THE (ATT.— f. 74
about half-past one o'clock, a fire burst fort'
esoigi
lower part of a large pile of buildings occupied A.
on the ground and upper floors by igesi:lif plq
M‘Lattren and Mr. G. Clapham, both s,'...table
situate behind the General Post-office. A viuiloreo
of stock is destroyed, and the premises ranch
fire and water.
111•19110126111161•11.
BIBTE,T..
d oiiptif;
On the Bth inst., at Coblent2, on the Rhine,
111:
Rev. W. Moxon Mann, Bri..ish Chaplain, of . 1),0-
On the 10th in3t., at Salt-bill, KingstoWih • 1
D. L. Jones, of a soLl, the if
On the 11th ina.; at TerUngs-park, Herts,
T. Rivaz, Es.q.. of the Bengal Civil Service, of 9,
On the 12th inst., at Woolwich, the lady of "
Mundy, Royal Artillery, of a daughter.
'
On the 12th inst., Mr. Samuel E. Perkins, of
to Anne, third daughter of Mr. George Ja
Wilton, near Guisborough, Yorkshire.
DIEI; t 1341
On the 29th ult., at Berlin, firmly believini*theill
merits of her Redeemer, Jesus Christ,
daughter of the late Mr. John Priekett, surveyor' $4,00
x
°lithe 12th inst., at Little Holland no-- ,09
the Hon. Caroline Fox, niece of Charles
sister of the late Lord Holland.
: ar,,l eubiishwl ,)17 MUlll3°4l (c/o
Y.-. 12. -'tr,,,!t i?rint.r The Sun,
I:%ire,
Stra-id. in !)r...dc.,,d of the Savoy, in
Middlesex, Saturday, March 15, 1845.