The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-15 00:00:00

FOULM IRE INCLOSURE BILL.
On the motion of Mt. ALLIX, the Foulmire Im.lorire Bill
was raad a second time.
CHARITABLE BEQUESTS ACT.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL presented a petition, sig'ied by
146 of the Roman Catholic clergymen of the archdiocese of
Dublin, complaining of certain provisions in the Einancipation
Act ; and also against the late Charitable Bequests Act, and
praying for its total repeal, and the substitution instead of the
Bill drawn up by the Hon. Member for Cork.
MAYNOOTH COLLEGE.
Mr. YOUNG presented a petition from the county of Cavan,
against the proposed increased grant to the Roman Catholic
College of Maynooth.
LIGHTING THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. HUM E. begged to give notice that he would, on Mon-
day next, call for the report of the expenses that had been in-
curred by the experiments made in lighting this House.
Captain PECHELL gave notice that he would to-mor-
row put a question, in order to ascertain the number of places
in Wales in which petty sessions were holden ; also a question
relative to tke Ju,tices' Clerks' Bill.
Sir W. CLAY gave notice of a motion relative to Messrs.
Smith's distillery case, the nature of which we could not
understand.

WINDOW-TAX.
Lord DUNCAN gave notice of a motion for the purpose of
inquiring into the operation of the window-tax, and the mode
of applying the tax so levied.
THE PORTLAND VASE.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL gave notice of his intention
to move for leave to bring in a Bill for the protection of pro-
perty in the Mu
PseumOST •OFFICE and other pESPlpublic
ON AGE laces.—( Hear, hear.)
.
Mr. WAK LEY moved that the petition from Finsbury re-
specting the Post•office, presented on the previous evening, be
printed.—Ordered.
NEW ZEALAND COMPANY.
Mr. G. W. HOPE said that several charges against his
Noble Friend at the head of the Colonial-office had been made
in and out of that House, accusing that Noble Lord of a
breach of faith. The Government had not had as yet
any opportunity for vindication, for, on a previous occasion,
when the subject was brought under their notice, it
was done in such a manner that though the
Government were indirectly accused they could net
enter into their defence. He had been informed that a peti-
tion was in course of preparation, and that several merchants
in the City had been solicited to sign it. These
petitions imputed to the Noble Lord misconduct, and
breach of faith in relation to his conduct
towards the New Zealand Company. He felt sure the
House would agree with him that it was only the
fair play which an Englishman had a right
to expect, that when a charge was brought
against him he should have a full opportunity of answering it on the
earliest opportunity. He should therefore bring forward a
motion on Tuesday next, giving the New Zealand Company an
opportunity of substantiating those charges if it were in their
power.
Mr. AGLIONBY was one of the Members who had spoken
on the occasion alluded to. He did not know whether or
not the Government alluded to him, but if they did he begged:to
inform the Hon. Under Secretary that he need not wait until
Tuesday, for he (Mr. Aglionby) was perfectly read now to
substantiate any charges which he had made against the officers
at the head of the Colonial Department. If the Hon. Under
Secretary did not wish to wait until Tuesday, he was perfectly
ready now to give his opinion as to the conduct of Lord
Stanley.
Lord HOWICK understood the Hon. Under Secretary
to say that on Tuesday he meant to go into the defence of the
conduct of Lord Stanley. Now, if the papers for which the
Hon. Under Secretary meant to move were necessary to the
defence of Lord Stanley, he must protest against any discussion
taking place on the subject until he should be in possession of
those papers, so as to be enabled to form an opinion on the
Noble Lord's policy as regarded New Zealand.
Me. MANGLES having been a party to that debate, and
having expressed a strong opinion on the conduct of the Co-
lonial-office, rose to answer sthe accusation of the Hon. Gen-
tleman. He was quite ready to substantiate any charge which
lie had made against Lord Stanley. He would not allow the
Hon. Gentleman to dictate to him.
Mr. HUME rose to order, but was interrupted by
Lord J. RUSSELL, who said that the Hon. Gentleman
had made a statement which he (Lord J. Russell) did not
clearly understand. He wished to know what it was that the
Hon. Gentleman proposed to do ?
Mr. G. W. HOPE said that the character of the Noble
Lori who was at the head of the Colonial Department had
been attacked on the other night, when the motion on the sub-
ject of New Zealand had been brought forward. A charge
had been brought against him by the Hon. Member for Lie-
keard. Now he was desirous of defending the conduct of
the Noble Lord, and he wished to introduce a notion for
papers, for the purpose of having that opportunity.
Mr. HUME asked if those papers furnished a specific an-
swer to the charge against the Noble Lord ? He should wish
to knew what was the specific charge made against the Neble
Lord, from which the Hon. Gentleman wished to defend him.
Mr. G. W, HOPE understood that the charge brought
against the Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial Depart-
ment was, that he had produced one set of instructions to the
New'Zealand Company, as the instructions which he had given
to the Governor who had been sent out, and that he had given
another set of instructions to the Governor inconsistent with
those shown to the Company, and which he did not produce
to them. And that, thereby, the Noble Lord's governor or
agent in the colony was not in possession of instructions, or
rather his instructions were not such as to enable him to carry
out the arrangement originally made by the Noble Lord with
the Company.
Sir R. INGLIS said, that as the House would have no
means of investigating the charge unless it had time to read
the papers, he would suggest that it would be better to post-
pone the question till after the recess ; they would then have
been able to consider the documents. He did not see the Hon.
Member for Liskeard in the House, or he was sure he would
consent to postpone his motion till after the recess.
Mr. MANGLES said, as the Noble Lord tLortl J. Russell)
and the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for the University of
I Oxford had prolonged the discussion, and the Hon. Under
Secretary for the Colonies had been allowed to speak twice,
he did not understand why he should have been considered out
of order. If the Hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for
the Colonies imagined there was any disposition on the part
of the New Zealand Company to shrink from inquiry with
respect to the charge made against the Colonial Department
in general, and Lord Stanley in particular, he was mistaken.
The Hon. Gentleman need be under, no apprehension but
that he would have a full discussion of the whole mater.
With respect to what the Hon. Gentleman had said of a pe-
tition in course of signature in the City, he might depend on
it the merchants and traders of the City were not the per-
sons to be influenced to sign a petition containing charges
against the Colonial Department, or any other department of
the Government, unless they were convinced of the justice of
the charges. If he supposed the Colonial-office stood well
with the country, the Hon. Gentleman was under a delusion ;
if he thought the Colonial-offiee was not reprobated by the
whle Country, and considered as a plague and a nuisance, he
believe the Ilon. Gentleman the Under Secretary, and the
Noble Lord at the head of the department, were the only per-
sons who held that opinion.
Sir R. INGLIS ssid,nhe intention to press the charge had
now been stated in terms about which there could be no mis-
take. His Hon. Friend, therefore, should not be content to
I take the discussion on a motion on which the House could
express no opinion. He should frame his motion in such a
manner as to elicit the opinions of the House. It would then
appear whether it was true, as alleged by the Hon. Member
who spoke last, that the Colonial Government was reprobated
by every individual in the country, except the Noble Lord at
the head of the department, and the Hon. Under Secretary.
He ( S.r R. Inglis) believed it would appear by a large and
unanimous majority of that House—(Cries of " Order")--he
was perfectly in order ; he believed it would appear by a ma-
jority of that House, and what was no less important, by the
opinion of the majority of the country that such was not the
general opinion of it.
Lord 110 WICK thought, after what had passed, that the
policy that had been adopted by the Government with respect
to New Zealand ought to be brought before the consideration
of the House.
Sir R. PEEL felt that he was bound to say something on
this question. He was certain that the course pursued by the
Noble Lord opposite would never az.swer the purposes he had
in view. But, besides the general question, there was another
question in which his Noble Friend was distinctly charged
with bad taith—a charge brought forward at the close
of the discussion the other night, after both his Right Hon.
Friend and himself hal addres-ed the House. His Noble
Friend was most anxious that they should not separate
for the holidays without having an opportunity of dis-
tinctly explaining his conduct by referring to the documents,
and showing, as he (Sir R. Peel) thought he could conclu-
sively show, that the accusation of want of good faith in his
transactions with the New Zealand Company was without
foundation. Ho did not apprehend that his Noble
Friend wanted to call on the House for any expression of opi-
nion on the general question, but his Hon. Friend, as the re-
presentative of tom Noble Friend, was most anxious in a matter
that need not necessarily provoke any disco lion on the ge-
neral policy, but on a matter in which his personal conduct was
involved, and an accusation of want of good faith made, that an
opportunity for explanation should be given.—( Hear, hear.)
His Noble Friend, feeling as a man of honour on this subject,
did not wish the House would separate without such an oppor-
tunity being afforded.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. AGLIONBY was glad that the Right Hon. Baronet
had spoken out in the way he did, feeling that any person whose
public conduct was arraigned should have an opportunity
of offering an explanation to the House. And if
the Hon. Secretary for the Colonies had taken the same
course, he believed that this discussion would have been termi-
nated before. Those who took part in the former debate, com-
plained that no notice had been given to them. The Hon. Se-
cretary for the Colonies had given notice, indeed, five minutes
ago behind the Speaker's chair.—( Hear, hear.) But was that
an intimation which ought to receive Parham eitary sanction?
—( Hear, hear.) The Committee who sat last year took an in-
terest in this discussion. Was any intimation given to them
that this question was about to be raised? If he understood
the Hon. Gentleman, he intimated his intention of bringing
before the House, for discussion and division, the whole ques-
tion of the complaints made by the New Zealand Company
against the Colonial-office, and the demand for reparation.
But he begged to tell the Hon. Under Secretary, that he could
not drag on a discussion when he pleased. The Hon. Baronet
had correctly stated his ( Mr. Aglionby's) views the other night.
He did not think that debate would take the angry turn it af-
terwards did,' and he certainly did not intend to bring
on the New Zealand question except as a dernier resort.
He would tell the Right lion. Baronet that the petition to
which reference had been made was one to which the atten-
tion of lion. Members was particularly requested. Great con-
sideration had been given to the wording of it, and they only
made application in it to the justice of the Government. The
petition was not yet ready, and it was doubtful whether it
might be presented, and a motion founded upon it, before
Easter. Until th , facts produced before the House were ex..
hibited in a condensed form, it would be useless to expect Hon.
Members to enter into a discussion upon the subject. There
existed a feeling in the minds of Hon. Members prejudicial
to the interests of the New Zealand Company and in favour of
the Government. He had many striking facts to show that
the New Zealand Company had endeavoured to de a great
public good, but they had been thwarted by the Government.
He could not think that the Right Hon. Baronet hail ente. ed
into the merits of this case. the claims of the Ne,v Zealand
Company could be shown to be just, and if their interests
ware injured by the proceedings of the Colonial Government,
if their hopes were protracted, surely it was but reasonable
that the Howe should pay some attention to their claims. He
did think that the recent appeal to the House might be useful.
The Company appeared before the House as claimants for
justice. He did not object to state all the reference that had
been made to Lord Stanley in the petition which was in course
of signature, and if he entered upon the subject somewhat
lengthily, he hoped the House would excuse him. He had not
expected that the discussion on the other evening would have
degen ebtrioaetetelltdeedi
Nnvttooor
dtthhe,ess
nwpseterrrdas t,
instructions."e,sa.n d Ht
oe h ( Mr. Aglionby) had
thenojecot
v e Hs
ueb swt iast taebd 'fuotr to
the word " order," but he would now allude to another point
before he did so. He had heard of very hostile and angry letters
that had been written and passed between Lord Stanley
and Captain Fitzroy upon this subject ; but he could not
further allude to them, as he understood they had been
withdrawn. However it might be said that the New Zealand
Company should make out their case, and then it would
devolve upon Lord Stanley to make good his objection to it.
It bad beers further said that that had been done, and that the