The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-11 00:00:00

SUGAR DUTIES.

Mr. M. GIBSON wished to take that opportunity of
making one or two remarks on the subject of the sugar
duties. He was one of those unfortunate persons—(A
laugh)—who, in consequence of the manner in whiCh
the subject had been placed before the House by
the -Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell), who proposed an
equal duty of 345. per cwt. on all foreign sugar, were
compelled to vote for that motion, without having an op-
portunity of going into the question whether our West
Indian Colonies were at all entitled to the protection of
distinctive duties.—(Hear, hear.) He begged now to
ask whether that vote would prevent his Hon. Friend or
himself from voting against those distinctive, duties ?
Mr. GLADSTONE
_was not prepared to-advise the
Hon. Gentleman as to the course which he ought to
pursue.-(A laugh).
Mr. GIBSON then gave notice that he would
move an amendment for the abolition of the distinc-
tive duties upon the reading of the preamble of the Bill.
ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS AND DISSENTERS'

britip; tiwin 1.,'

Mr. JAMES rose, and said that he hoped he might be i ..e i ss. ; and if they would do. so, the
.
permitted to. make a few observation:. on this ques- ' ts eetaeree ie. eels ertie'e eveo
ld.increase roan extent
tion ; firstebecausehe did not often trouble the house ; ;;:t 'eeties. it-Jet-Lev:a I`' jtistice were to be done to the
reading g
becauseithtra%ldia,athrioirtdly, because he e as: ene in ts•' ::, e ..e.. on those articles which came into general
been a full discesei,.,a on ;c•e :- t .'..mse- : le•re knust be a general systemOf reduction
of those unfertunate beings called a West India piammter, : vol.- u ::1;.,.. :,T this should be the great object of legis-
not threugh any fault of. his oenebut hecause, so re Len- Wiwi.
s thee co
-snedcloyn , d
. .
tunics ago, an ancestor of his was encouraged by the Go- . Mr. M. (e i i-se.)"; seconded the motion.
vernment of that day to invest money in the purchase Mr. JA NILS explsined.
of a WeSt India estate in the island of Jamaica, and who The CHANCELLOR t,f the EXCHEQUER said this
expected that future Governments would not legislate to subject had been so fully discussed on a recent occasion,
injure, much les's to destroy the value or, their property. that he did not think it necessary to trouble the House
lie proposed, in the first place, to take the opportunity at any length. They would find in the speech of the
of
.expressing his cenvictien that few-Members of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, by
,a careful attention,
House were really acquainted with the exact facts of sufficient groueds for rejecting. the motion. • The obser-
the case,. or with the tinfertunate condition in which vations of the Hon. and Learned Gentle Man were rather
the West Indian interests s: ere now placed. He in favour of a generel, reduction or abolition of duty,
thought he could best: illustrate their condition by than to the subject under the considerlitien. of the House.
his own situation; and that was peculiarly favour- 'He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was most anxious
able as regarded the 'cultivation of West Indian to reduce taxation to the loWeSt possible state consistent
property, for he Rat iiideicliary in the light of ant with the maintenance
~of elieSrevenuee but, with Out ne-
absentie proprietor, having a son residing in the country.! glecting tote first duties of a' Government, they could not
who was ntectuainted with the busines.,"and.al oan ever • i' at present ae ede to the proposition :of the Hon. and
seer, who had resided there several' yeare, and was , L artied M•enber for Datistries. Those who had invested
thoroughly acquainted with the mole of cultivating 1 capital in a : ur should not be altogether forgotten, nor
sugar. • There were no mortgaees.on the property, and i elittud thee eletgether overlook the interests of their own
he had I -no occasion, as many. had, to employ merchants colones.. .
and pay them twoand-a-half per cent. Ho had only j Mr. 111.7..1E recommended his" Hon. and 'Learned
to pay a commission bn,ker. Nov mime was his . Friend 11,0. to pit, Ss his motion at present. The West
case ? Every peundof segar he imported from Jamaien, bidet) c• 1 n :t.e were not at present in . a position to
taking an average of three Years, cost him 4d. in the. eepe , ith t•reten 'POWers, end they should nit tell a
production and transport. What happened when it. Man t'i run ,sway whilst, theySitnew the length of
.his tie.
arrived in thistountry ? The Chaneelli tr of the Exchequer They shoal I first relieve • the West Indian 'capitalist
immediately put a tax of 3.1. per lb. on it, thus making faun thb :ti a !Vantages
sand burdens which he.imail at
the price 7d. A great deal had been said about,'pre-cut to contend with, and having done these things,
the dearness of. sugar, but all he had been able to but :I tt um il ;ben, might they fairly eipect them to. cope
get for his sugar was 60. per lb., thus losing i lb. with the I;•iti.ilian ur the Cuban, who employed slave
or 500/. on every 100 hogsheads of sugar. This was not ;ahojr•—blear, hear.) ''. .
a very pleasant pesition to be he e ith regard to pro- . Mr, I,:k 30U_LIIIt.11E, though opposed to the motion,
petty whieh, during the existe lee of slavery, was .wotild ee: recommend the. Won. arid Learned Gentleman
worth 3,0001 -a - year, anti, during e• - the appreiniee-. to pre-e; -hi, inothin to a division. .
. . .
ship system, huff 'that sum, ' and he had done .M1'..11 GIBBON wife of opitdon , that 'it would be
everythine• 'to diminish' . the' cest of cultivation, much beq-er fee the country if the exact amount of the
What was the cause.of this mischievous state of things? elaio.s • f the colonists were laid before the House, to
Was it not the existence Oa tax of 3d. upon their staple have ,110 o amply compensated, than that they should
commodity, sugar ; and neatly a prohibitory tax be thos al owed to obstruct a measure which would so
upon rum ? - Let it not •be tOrgotten that these much c.ai!ii.•e. to the welfare of the British 'community.
taxes were proposed by Mr.. Pitt. expressly as war. Ile s v.tw no reason why 10s. should he the exact amount
taxes. Any gentleman who would refer to the debates of duty esati.h was necessary to compensate the colonist.
of that day, would find that Mr. Pitt premised when B i-tiles,.o it trade with foreign countries was much im-
the sugar duties • were . imposed that ' they pedel by the preeent restrictions'' and he for one
should be the very first to abe taken off. aould pretest against preferring the interests Of any
whenever ' peace . was 'eqiibLshed.;- and yet there elites of capitalists to the advantage of the public.
they were, nearly.thirty years after the commencement Ile disagreed entirely with the feeling which supposed
of the penice, and the taxes remained precisely-the Same. that this interference would prevent the consumption of
They had heard a, great deal about the 20,000,000/.. slave-grown sugar by English subjects._ He remarked,
He had , more than. once , -sail, t that although that at die tinie'When the emancipation of the " negroes
a very munificent gift, it was but a small compensation was'. wider the consideration .of Parliarnent, - many
to the West Indian planters for the lois which they sus . humene persons abstained altogether from the use of
tamed. ' He would like to know 'how gentlemen in that:, sugar, he use it was produced by slaves ; and he was
House wool(' feel, if after.their property had been ruined sureri ed that a Government, who professed to act upon
by the repeal of the corn-laws, the Hon. Member for ono:too-631 principles, should lend its influence to the
Stockport should rise and, propose to give them • setting up of a new principle—the rejection 'of commerce
2s. 6]. in the pound as compensation ? They with . other States on the . ground.
,of slavery being
took from them their slaVes' and -up to. that time tolerated in them. He regarded the monopoly which
they threw every: possible impediment in the was set up as extremely pernicious, and calculated to
way of their , availing themselves of free labour. insult the' feelings Of ' foreign States, and render More
Theyhad•been asked, why, if they lost by their estates, difficult the formation of commercial treaties with thoie
they did not abandon their' cultivation ? They States.
had not abandoned the cultivation up, to Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but the
that time, because they relied npon the justice and Howe did net divide ; and on our re-admission we found
the sympathy. of the Members of that House, and Mr. VILLIERS addressing the House.. The Hon.
he would fain hope that they did not altogether rely Member said that ehe questions put to the Governinent
upon a broken reed. He did not hesitate to say that were of so much importance that the Ministry were not
many of the 'proprietors in Jamaica had , been treated jest; tied in refusing to reply to thein.—(Hear, hear.)
more cruelly than the slaves bad ever been
_treated. The House and the country had a right to
The slaves had elssays had a supply of good anti demand front the Government -the reason, why
wholesome food, whilst, by the legislation of that House, tha West India islapds were' to have this protection.
proprietors were rendered destitute. Did any one believe Was it that they were so useful ? Was it that they
that if they were a: powerful as the landed interest such • were so loyal ? Whereas, only four years ago, their
measures would he proposed as were then under conside- legislatures were suspended because they were net loyal.
ration ?• He was sorry to see the great discouragement —(I tear, hear.) Were they contented ? The Hon.
which had been given to' their interest by the change of Membsr for Cumberland (Mr. James) had given the
opinion on the part of the Right -11 Oh. Baronet at 'the answer.-e (Hear, hear.) He had told the House that
head of the Government. As to the opposition of the*coloiiies were -ruined by the emancipation of the
the Honourable Member far Dumfries' he
,did, not con- slaves. 'The philanthropists, as well as the economists,
shier. it very formidable ; for.
.he brought forward had always contended that it would be best to throw the
such wild, extravagant, an ultra views on all sorts \Vest belies upon their own resources, and to do away
of subjects, that he really did not think any. altogether with protective duties. That had been the
rational, person could coincide in his views.—(Heare Opinion of Mr. Cropper, Mr. Stevens, and several others,
hear.) He regretted the course pursued by his Noble ant the result. had fully borne them out. Jamaica was
Friend the Member for the City of London. What he ti a the at hole of the West Indies: but, on the contrary,
chiefly complained of in his Noble Friend was, that he it would be found, that if there were any deficiency, un-
did not come forward at the same time to propose the der particular circumstances, in that island, the produce
repeal 'of time Emancipation Act. If they were to in other islands had doubled in-six years.—(Hear, hear.)
have slave labour sugar tel flitted into this The whole measure was designed to forward the West
country, let that Ant be repealed. To give an advantage Indians, who had too much influence in the Cabinet, and
to slave 'countries which was -not professed by their ou n too much power over the Government.—'(Hear.) But
colonies,- . did appear .to him to be a course of he weuld ask the House, did they not know of slavery in
legislation which was calculated to: make them the ether centuries, the governors of which were actual
laughing-stock of every • nation in the werld. dealers iii the slave trade themselves?—(Hear.) In Egypt
If they-really wished to benefit the people of England, a alive tra.'e Wits carried on with Nubia, and
.yet the
it could only be. effected justly in one way, Paella teas recognised as the friend and ally of this
that was by diminishing the costs- of production in country, although the slaves were not intended for prm-
their
own colonies, and gradually reducing the tax. dial liti)nur alone, but for more degraded service and
Let them only have plenty of free labour, redUce the mote unworthy purposes.. He would support the motion
tax on colonial sugar from 245. to 12s. ; by that means of his 11-11. Friend, and must express his opinion that
they would de ample justice to the W, st Indians, and confer the questions of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had
an important benefit on time people of England, whilst last sat den -ought to be answered.
at the same time they would sufler neless, but would ob- Mr.
.G LA DSTONE was surprised that the Hon.
taro a gain •on the ' revenue by the largely increased Gentlemen should make a charge against him for not
consumption that would take place. He would not say stating the -grounds en which the Government upheld
anything mere, for he had almost given up the case as protection to the West Indian interest. He thought
hopeless. dud; evere Hen. Member was so well acquainted' with
Mr, EWART said his Hon. Friend had charged hint that that -he had considered it would be disrespectful to
With 'asserting rash propositions; he thought his Hon the lloote •to repeat them over again ; if,' however, he
Friend ought to recollect that these propositions had been ninst' rep at tliein—(Cries of "No, no")—he would say,
made-year after year.. He maintained that the commerce first, Ilea they we, e maintained, because upon the
and manufactures of the people of this , country were system IX protection time customs had always been re-
affected by the discriminating defies which his Hon. gulated ; and seeendly, because they had been under
Friend had attempted to defend. -11 is Hon. Friend there- pro;eet'on :untenablg almost to prohibition. The truth
fore came into court not as plaintiff, but as derendant. ,was. that at the present moment the West Indian in-
He' (Mr. Elvart) certainly could not understand the - to-est an: • suffering a depression of labour more than
conduct of those Hon. Members whom he considered to Lily other interest. Ile did not think that the speech of
be represented by the Hon. Gentleman who had last the Hen. Member for Manchester afforded a very excel-
addressed the House (Mr. James). Were they, then, • lent example of the benefit of free labour. The Hon.
actually coming down to that House to protect and ithmber for Wolverhampton had referred to a work
uphold the system of monopoly ? There was, however, published by Mr. Gurney four years ago, with respect
a want of skill as swell as a degree of partiality in the to the etre e, of free labour in Antigua, and from that he
conduct of this class of Members who now came down had argued that, in consequence of that free labour, the
to make common cause with the monopolists. The Hon. the export sf sugar from that island had been doubled ;
Gentle Man (Mr. James) had made an attack' on the but he li-ad taken ne notice of a return that had been
Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir B. Peel), which it laid on the table only four days ago, or he would have
would have been better to refrain from. It was easy to discovered that such was not the case. He thoughtithe
rake up speeches delivered over a course of many years, • Hon. Gentleman ought to have better evidence before
and to cavil at them ; but for his (Mr. Ewart's) he- made the assertion.
part, he • thought it time duty of a Prime Minister Dr. BOWRING said, to his certain knowledge the
to watch opinion as it advanced, and to endeavour to Priebe of Egypt had been ready to put down slavery in
keep pace • with it, and glad was he to find that, any way that might be suggested by Great Britain. He
however slowly, the • Right Honourable Baronet would support the motion of his Hon. Friend.
was disposed to move onwards. The question how- Mr. VILLIERS asserted again that the statements of
ever, now before the House was, whether Mr. Gurney were correct. •
one part of our colonies was to be benefited ,at the Lord STANLEY repudiated their accuracy amid cries
expense of the general well-being of the colintry. Such of " Divide, divide."
a system would be, •in fact, ultimately injurious to the Mr. COBDEN then rose to address the House. There
planters themselves, No worse policy could be pursued than appeared to him a great disposition in the House to avoid
that of retaining those differential duties. Throw open the the• discussion of this question upon principle. On both
sugar trade, and the general commerce of the '.country sides of the House there was a marked disposition not
would be increased to an almost illimitable extent. (ii entertain the proposition of the Hon. Member for
No measure, except that of the repeal of the corn-laws,' Dumfries. He had no hesitation in saying that if this
would do so much good, as placing the sugar trade question • was 'properly considered and discussed, no
on a:proper' foundation. What he (Mr. Evart) wished Minister could withstand it. The Right Hon. Gentle-
to see done was this—to reduce the catty to what it was man at the head of the' Board of Trade had rode off
befOre the war, to what it was, for example, in the year upon the queslien_ of something that Mr. Gurney had
1790. Then the duty levied on sugar was 128.4 d. per ewt. written. • lle (Mr. Cobden) could not agree to the prin-
Unless they reduced the duties upon sugar so low as to • ciple of proteetion ; all that was wanted was that the
increase the consumption among the labouring classes, principle of ntatsinterferenee should be adopted. It had
they would do nothing. The real consumers of all been attempted to blink the question, but he would un-
commodities were the labouring classes. He would re- mask it. The fact was, they wanted to give to the West
mind the Chancellor of the Exchequer that it had been India proprietors 10s. a cwt. more for their sugar than
shown before the Select Commitoe that nineteen- i... would produce in time markets of the world, and
twentieths of the tobacco consumed in the country that was to be accomplished by a differential duty.—
was consumed by the 'labouring .classes7—(Hear, (ilear, heir.) For his own part, he considered
hear)—and he would.. venture to say, that the that the West Indians had no right to come to that
consumption of tea and coffee was in the same propor- house anti ask it to make their trade profitable. Now,
tion. Unless they could bring the price of sugar down what iv of ibe the effect of the measure? It would confer
to fourpence per • pound, they would do nothing. no benefit en time coloured population of' the West Indies,
The rich consumed from 601 b. to .701 b, of sugar per head and it could not be doubted that the monopoly system
per annum,sand the poor only 71b. The rich amounted had not I can of any benefit to the labourers of that
to 5,000,000, the poor to 23,000,000 ; dins, the country, for the fact was that they stated that they had
power of consuniption. of '23,000,000 persons re- been ruined by a differential duty of 635. How, there-
mained undeveleped. A great quantity of sugar fore, could a differential duty of 10s. do them any good?
was formerly consumed in Ireland, but at present, The time was when a Member was incapable of sitting
owing to the high duty, the consumption in Ireland had in that House if he was a monopolist, and in 1640 it was
diminished to an average of 71b. per head per annum, in- incumbent upon, Members, if they knew others who.
stead of an average- of 211 b. per head per annum, as was were. monopolists, to name them, and, in November
the case in England. Iti consequence of the of that year, the Members for Evesham, Rye,
high
duty, 'adulteration' took' place to a - very great and Bridgewater, were unseated on that ground,:
extent, awl' the p•nr man, also consumed the muscovado Reverting, however, to the monopolies as they existed in
sugar, suffered exclusively from those adulterations, for the. presLnt day, he begged to state 'that they were com-
the- rich man consumed only refined sugar. With regard plained of, and protested against, not merely because
to the Wust Indian interest., the more honest course they took away fret-Italie comforts of the
_people, but be-
would be to let them know the worst at .oece.—(Hear.) cause they were a hindrance to • trade. ' To attempt to
The false support on-which they .had heretofore leant banish at the present time those who were- •connected:
could not lust more than a few years, mind his Hon. -WithSor interested in them, would -be a useless labour,
Friend would,. find that out.. It would be. • better for it would be attempting to banish an entire majority:
for the West India •interest to' s come 'to a of those wpb composed the House.—(Laughter.) It he-
'wise compromise 'in time, for it was beyond all came the free traders, therefore, to •stir up the people.
.doubt that the present false system could not last, in 'order that the
.monopolists in that House,
and his - Hon. Friend had proved it was injurious connected with sugar, timber, coffee, and other things,
to the West India interest itself. They were in a false -might on tt future occasion be kept out of it altogether.
position, out of • which it wastheir wish to extricate He (Mr. Cobden) did•not stand there to injure the West
them. ,It was a remarkable circumstance, that India; philters. He had no wish—no iiitontioa to do
the foreign- trade had increased in ' a much so. Ott the contrary, he wished to roe them prosperous,
greater proportion than the colonial trade. Let them- and to that end he urged them to coalesce with the free
look to the case of Bristol and Liverpool. The former traders in order to carry a low duty. A duty of 16, or
Was dependent on a colonial trade, and had not ad- : even 14, year; would put them in a better position in Once
vanced, while Liverpool, which had extended its trade to• yi ars thee from the present than• they had been in for
all parts of the world,, had made rapid advances. It •years.• ''l•lie consequence of suoh an arrangement would
was the same with regard to Nacre and Bordeaux.- the be to ;;ire to the \Vest India trade an immediate -im-
latter of which depended on the old colonial system. , pulse-eel:teeter machinery would be introdueed—a sounder
He had certainly once introduced to the House a pro- system of cultivations would be originated—and intellect
1
posal for exteniing the cultivation of free labour sugar; would hsgin to develops itself in that quarter ; and
'but it was rather to agitate the question than• perheps that was an article more requisite than any
with .any idea of its adoption. For his own part, other.----(Laughter.) Let matters inthe West Indiessbe
he regarded commerce as the great miaancipaton I put tiptem a sound footing, and the sugar proprietors need
.He maintained that the real way to bring thia'question shoe use fear of Cuba or Brazil. The realgoesetop was,
to. an issue, was to throw open 'the markets to the pro- monopoly Or no nionopt4ly; The poultry Wei agains nio-
duce of the world, and allow flee labour 'and slave nopely t. it oeiiiter desired lerge rnoopptelie.s nor stnall
labour produce to come •at oncio boldly into conflict to. I iiiQ ri oill 111 its. nor uAklitiej, nlounpotica.: -And of this he
the nneaket eil this ceontfy; This would be* conclii wee emfeetly sutiefieni, tliat.the West India proprietors
riot} to which thpy would 'neve to mete at leg- Hp hoes''Would find tlietsteelves much more prosperous if they would
lieved, too, that the plantprs.thorniietv63 would he beeme• go hand in hand with the free traders, instead of allow=
•fited by this. He admitted that they had been injured ing.thenvelYes.to be made shuttlecocks of fey the leenefit
Iby the legislation of this country, which had restricted of pa; ty, and to their own to their. eonotrite detri-
their
commerce, and he wished to ses that syStem Of 4157 leent.se (ilt-ee, beet.)
latlen esbollehed, 4f the Plopt i_,; t0.1.e tp' bv qn. p4-;iiititi .10 t,, V. 1-.;T:ViIV AliT said there was one portion of the
portion, of this ponntry. 0.4 ccikist'4.nnght to be trokteci
.t...rgntr.tut t f his Hon. Friend- who last addressed..the,
f B
as the inhabitants of country Were treated. His IlOn. Pense, which might be very 'sound according treetise,
Friend bid complained of a detHelicy of labour in the seliteil to which he (Mr. Cosal;eo iseeionged, but which
.West Indies. Why, let the trade be thrown open to 09 'was not v0,0;430141' lo ite clutratett. 'lt went to this,:
*oyldowd. tliiß, qii tyPilltl ;nreit,tly itse,lll • Tint 'tied Teeeietese the IVest,'lndia; proprietors were a small
energies Of cup tillonhas Affld. yie•or fie -*telopedi 114- and weak hialy, therefore they should be ill-used. Noir
less thpy were sphiOetPCi to Ad' ;Ind fair competition. it r.ally ought in fairness to be,borpe in mind, that Akm
He wished to hring i
ths subject to some definite point, and West India interest had been made the Niatito to aPai." '
to itsbertain 'hy a division, whether the' House W#4 will- tietdttr. systeza of•leghiletien ; auti but for that system
ing tp eupla(isit thp (14tY Pft klaeltfri and eolenlal sue\ t.T.e, v•do1llv!4 wokad•have been regardless utterly
..,, of any`•
or Ulf Tr lw clic.' }lot .sticcpcd ill inducing the noose to ilift:,,lrpntiA dwies,- or of enythints, else. • The principle of. '
abolish tha diftrenttal clutyi' tlivn he wcnid Twoppse. ;is i cite free trAgs in 1110 prePent, instance was to eall.bri.
on amendment to. the motion ee the . Host, Winner ik-Ir the. ton with -n. heavy hnrdele, put •ou Mot by offices
kstph' Oat these differcntial.clutieseheuld expire at the teal nut by Imitnself, 10, run its freely as the man with no
' ' d:f4tt fr Rffs 13Y Ffluelisiog. .the duties their • might liardeil a 'alit:Y. thQ lion, Gentleman (Mr. Cobden"-

F-!1/4-

-

;ef

(

._....., . . - t e-M-7---"--7.3 . would givellimTa—Cti:ro-Mittee Of the-Trouse, he (Mr: Stet derived at a very small petieess'Whiotodenin4 the
wart) would preve special and peculiar burdens in less - people of this country to a.iiiteri!itaiip:7l\tptifltof it,
than one hour. Every disadvantage' which the West - and thereby add very-m atTer4ll44their
India colonies now iabeured under had been the cOnse- happiness. It was argu *re:: ' I llu not
qiieneeef the legislation of that House ; and yet tci that be done. He now came to nblefriity, i- it tbst
day nosprogress whatever had - been made in assisting the people of this country- should-Veit o reap the
them to that labour which bad been taken away from, benefit of their own laboar;and of the pe r advantages
and which had, timeafter tire, been promised to them. which Providence had granted to various parts of the globe?
Give to them 'the supply of labour which had beim pro- What wasitwhich preventedthern from obtainingthiscom-
raised, then they would have production enough, and modity at a cheap rate, and thus increasing their corn-
the question of differential'duties would be set at rest forts ? What was the objection made by his Hon.
forever. . Friend ? He gave a description of two classes of per-
Mr. BRIGHT said, if ever protection had been shown sons, whom he portrayed .in very glowing terms. He
to be rotten to the core, it had been shown inrespect to first described the people of England, and then the peo-
sugar. Protection to the West Indies had led to -loss`fif pie of another portion of the globe, whom he would now
trade, loss of profit, loss of comfort, loss of everything. designate generally by the term West Indians. He de-
Where prosperity had been promised 'progressive ruin sired-the people of this country to contemplate these two
had been met with: This old policy would find them as pictures ; and so did he (Mr. Roebuck) desire them to
before, and bring with it its usual attendant evils, for as contemplate them. He described the people of England as
population increased supply diminished. The preSent poor and suffering ; he pointed to them as persons la-
measure of the Government would give two millions to bouring hard to obtain a pitiful subsistence, deprived of
the West India planters ; but why should this be given, fuel and clothing, of warmth and food ; and he then
when it robbed.others and did no gt:od to them ? For pointed to the favoured population of that colony from
his own part, nothing should induce him to allow two whence this article of sugar was to be drawn. The bulk
millions, or one million, or anything to 'be ' given to the of the inhabitants of the West Indies were described by
-trade to which he belonged, and- which had now becorne his Hon. Friend as persons who could obtain the
one of the largesse:lnd most 'important .'of the country. means of subsistence with but little labour, and
And how and why had it become so ? 'Simply by the who enjoyed the comforts and luxuries of life.
healthful and wholesome stimulus of competition. That Them he described as being bankrupt in fortune, as being
Was the way to make the West India interest and every unable to maintain their position, as striving to maintain
other interest prosperous. But if they would not con- that position which they had so long possessed, by means
sent to this he had a plan to propose that, though not So of taxing the poor, impoverished people of England, for
sound and so wholesome as competition; would still be a n
the benefit of a similar impoverished and bankrupt class
improvement, and a great one upon the present system. of absentee proprietors. That was the description which
What' he should propose ' Was, that' a 'payment of his Honourable Friend had 'given. The poor people
1,251',000/. should be made .to the West India' proprie- of England, who were deprived of the advantages of
tors, and if they did hot accept 'this offer he did not climate, were to be ground by a peculiar law, as the
think they could have any claim on the country; and if lion. Gentleman said, for maintaining that class which
the Government did not accede to such a payment for the Hon. Gentleman had so well described. Now he
the benefit of the country. lie thought they were not jus- (Mr. Roebuck) had described what those West India
titled in voting the supplies for her Majesty's Govern- proprietors were. He said they were no proprietors at
ment. ' In this ease the monopolists were in a worse all ; those very men who now came forward, were mort-
condition than the corn monopolists, as they ' had no gaged is their estates.—(" No," from Mr. Bernal.) No !
tenant-farmers to plead for, and with regard to the la- Why he would like to know to whom the twenty millions
bourers, their principal objection was, that they could went? Ilia Hon. Friend complained that theydid not go to
not get more labourers, so as to reduce the wages of them. He also complained that they were unrepresented.
those who were now employed. The monopoly in this Why, it was an imposition on the credulity of mankind
instance was, therefore, a hare-faced one.. The -clues- to make use of such expressions. Were they not a -re-
don, in fact, was one of a majority of votes against the presented classin comparison to their real importance?
obvious interests of the people and against a principle Why, if they were represented according to their im-
acknowledged on all sides' to be • sound.-(Hear, hear.) portance to the community, the fraction of' a Member
The Noble Lord below him (Lord J. Russell) -admitted would be all they really deserved. His Hon. Friend
the principle of free trade, but he appeared always to said this country had forced the West Indian proprietors
falter when it was to be practically carried out. He into their present position ; but he (Mr. Roebuck) was
talked of its combining all the nations of the earth in there to dispute that assertion. The West Indian pro-
one brotherhood. How inconsistent was this with his prietors themselves had fostered and protected that her-
declaration, that there ought to be a diffrrential duty to rible trade—the slave trade. They were, originally, a
the amount of forty per cent. in favour of British sugar. band of adventurers, and had themselves established that
Would that proposition knit in one common brotherhood trade. The people of England had never fostered it,
all the nations of the earth ? The Noble Lord, also, in He defied his Hon. Friend to answer that assertion.
the debate on the Factory question, admitted that the re- He (Mr. Roebuck) could trace the slave trade
strietions upon trade necessarily increased the hours of from Sir John Hawkins downwards, and they would.
labour. The Noble Lord, the Member for Dorsetshire, find it as he had stated ;—That a small band of advsn-
and others expressed sympathy with the labouring popu- turers had taken possession of an island in the West
lation of the country. He thought they had a right to Indies, and following the example set them by Spain,
call for the votes of all those persons on the present spread that devastating spot and plague over that por-
question. There could be no prosperity for the country tion of the world. They had nothing to do With Eng:
as long as they continued to act on principles acknow- land in her collective capacity. The 'West India pro..
!edged to be unsound, and therefore injurious to the prietors'adopted it as individual adventurers, and they
great body of the people ; and that House could not hold were not now entitled to complain. When the people of
a place in the affections of the people when they saw England at last saw the enormity of the mischief, they
them rejecting-questions which would so much advance interfered. But how did they interfere ? Why they
the true interests of the country; and place in a gave those very proprietors compensation for their large
better condition the great mass of the people.—(Hear.) losses, and yet, in the face of the Imperial Parliament,
Mr. BERNAL regretted that the dikussion had been his Hon. Friend came forward and said that they were
protracted so long, and that they had - been dragged not adequately compensated.—(Hear, hear.) Could it
nolentes volentes into the discussion, for if gentlemen con- be said at that time of day, that it was not ample corn-
nected with the West Indies were to stand there pensation ? He said that was a most magnificent cons-
silently it would be said that they had no case. The pensation, given by them in support of the principle of
lion. Gentleman who had just set down, had hinted that those philanthropists who could not allow even the
the object of the West India proprietors was to reduce shadow of a claim to rest on the people who '
the wages of the labourers in their employ. Where was had propounded that principle of liberty. Was
the consistency of the Hon. Gentleman, who, if he was there any man who would tell him that it
not mistaken had, both in and out of that House, was not a magnificent payment? He said that it was
professed himself a friend to free emigration ? magnificent—that it was exorbitant—that it was an ex-
ile had listened with great attention to the moderate travagant payment. And if those proprietors had been
and wise views put forward by the Hen. Member for compelled to prove their losses, each and every one of
Stockport, to whom he gave all credit for his ingenuity them, they would not have received a tithe of what they
and ability, and he did not differ from him in the general had already received in the shape of compensation. And
views which he advocated, and he (Mr. Bernal) did not yet his Hon. Friend turned round and said that they had
stand there as the advocate of monopoly ; but he stated not received sufficient compensation, and therefore he
his case as one of a body which ought not to be put stood between the Hon. Member for Dumfries and the
down merely because they might be weak. Their argu- House. Now he (Mr. Roebuck) contended that if the
ment was a mere chronological statement of their case, motion of the Hon. Member for Dumfries were affirmed,
which he had repeated over and over again. It was almost the result would be that an enormous increase in the
disgustingto do so because it was presumed that hehad an revenue would accrue to the State. He was not stating
interest, and it was known that it was so. In the a fanciful case. If they were to equalise the duty on.
year 1834, that great, wise, and salutary measure of Eman- sugar from every quarter of the globe, he said that there
cipation was passed, with a provision that seven or would be a large increase of revenue. Then came the
eight years of apprenticeship should follow. Ile did not question, who was it that interfered with the people of
want to say that the West India proprietors were free England and their desires? That was the question.
from all blame, but what he blamed the Government for The Hon. Member for Weymouth interfered. He said
with respect to this measure was, that they hurried it " You paid us badly for our slaves, and therefore for all
through without taking the necessary steps of apprising time to come you have to tax the people of England in
the West Indian proprietors of the change. In this favour of us." Was there common sense in that pro-
country, on the contrary; the change from vassal- posal? His Hon. Friend had described the people of
age to freedom was brought about gradually, England as impoverished and wretched; and be de-
and by Acts of Parliament one succeeding the other. scribed the inhabitants of the West Indies as being ex-
Then, in 1838, the House declared that the state of ap- ceedingly well clothed, and well fed, and extremely well
prenticeship should be abolished, and that it was better housed. • That was to say that in the West Indies a
it should terminate at once ; and that they should pro large party of the population, namely, the free blacks,
teed to the condition of free master* and free labourer. a ere extremely happy. - That was the description of his
So far as related to the conduct of the slaves, who had Hon. Friend; and in giving that description ho made this
emerged from a state of bondage to the condition of free- very extraordinary statement:—" We warned you
men, he admitted that the experiment had been fully against this—we told you what would happen, and I
successful (Hear, hear) and he believed that no fear it has so happened, and that no revolt has worked
West Indian proprietor, in his senses, would wish to a change." That was the statement of his Hon. Friend
recur to the old system ; but as far as related to the cul- —he feared to contemplate the result of a people's hap-
tivation of Jamaica, it certainly had not been successful piness. Were not the people in the West Indies well
—a comparison had been drawn between the state of clothed, and well fed, and happy? Oh, yes, they were;
Jamaica and this country. Now it was totally different. but then there were certain persons called the West
There was a difference—an essential difference, in the India interest, who had been accustomed to a certain
climate; only the smallest exertion was required on the position in society, likely to be reduced from that
part of the native population of Jamaica to procure the position in consequence of these wretches not workings
comforts and even the luxuries of life; for the produc- lion. Gentlemen opposite complained in the same
tions there were soon brought to perfection under a tro- manner about the oornslaws.—(Hear, hear.) What,
pleat sun. They had little' necessity for clothing. The should it be said that his Hon. Friend could advocate
condition of the population of Yorkshire, where the a free trade in corn, and in the same breath advocate a
labourers were paid high wages, was totally different.-- restriction in the trade in sugar?
(Hear, hear.) With all their exertions they could Mr. BERNAL dissented.
scarcely make both ends of the year meet, and he Mr. ROEBUCK continued-oh, yes; but his Hon.
himself had frequently seen persons brought before the griend advocated a fixed duty, which was always to be
magistrates for picking up fire-wood. How could they fluctuating—which was to be regulated by the aspect of
think that the population of Jamaica, under the favour- the political sky,- hiving Bs. to-day, and perhaps ls. to-
able circumstances he had stated, would apply them- morrow. The
sugar trade'was protecteti by his Hon.
selves to continuous labour, and the cultivation of the Friend, and the corn trade by the Right Hon. Gentleman
sugar cane was of such a nature, particularly at certain the Member for Rent (Sir E. Knatchbull). Were they
seasons, as to require continuous exertion. • The sun to legislate with respect to the trade in sugar, so as to
raised the sugar cane, but it - also raised a multitude of maintain • the Wost India proprietors in that society
noxious and parasetic weeds, which choked its growth, which they had so long adorned ?—(Hear, hear, ironi-
unless it was constantly attended to, and the land cleared tally from Mr. Bernal.) 4- Hear, hear"—this was, no
away. This required a continuity of laboars and the doubt, a sharp shaft ; but if he had drawn his bow and
negro population could not be depended upon when they pointed it at the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member
were wanted. They had much land of their own which for Kent, his Hon. Friend would have said " Hear, hear,"
they preferred attending to. The peasantry there rode in a different tone.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. Roebuck)
to the chapels on their own poneye.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that the doctrine of free-trade would be consi-
stated this to show the difference which existed in the dered without reference to these distinctions,—(Hear,
Condition of the people of both countries. 'They had hear.) The great principle of buying in the cheapest
not there a dense population which depended for subsist- and selling in the dearest market ought to be taken as
ence on their exertions. It might be said, why did they not the motto in all commercial transactions, and
hire labourers by contract ? but unfortunately in this it ought not to be crossed by partial and
case the people would hurry over the work, and, as they petty personal considerations.--(Cheers.) He looked
bad not the wand of an enchanter, or the power of Cad- upon the question of sugar as a question far greater in
mus to create people, they could not get them to work. importance than the question of corn. He believed that
It was only on the Bth of May last that the Noble Lord if they had a free trade in sugar, that an immense in-
- opposite, the Secretary for the Colonies, issued his final crease in the importation of that article would take
instruction to the Governor of Sierra Leone to abate place in one day, and in return for that importation the
.certain restrictions-upon-the immigration of Africans to manufacturers of this country would send the produce
the West Indies ; and then they were told that the shat- of their industry in payment for it. Why should the
kles_which fettered them had been removed, and they West Indies be favoured any more than any other part
were now in a condition to contend with the sugar• of the globe ? In the West Indies revolts and blood-
growers of Manilla, Java, and Cube, It was said they shed had been of frequent occurrence, ever since they
had' received compensation, It was most disagreeable had been attached to this country ! while they had been
to speak on the subject. It was either compensation or it an enormous expense to England. The West Indies
was not.--(Hear.) Ile would ask whether 3001. a year was were a load upon us ; and if a sudden gust could sweep
:compensation to any individual for 500 000/, QT 600,000/.? these islands from the face of the earth, England would
He knew instances where for the lest five or six years not lose one jot of her strength—not one penny of her
proprietors had been making the most painful efforts wealth—not a single instrument of her power would be
to preserve their credit, suffering every species of priva- diminished by the sudden disappearance of these islands
tion in thaattempt. They might say they had made from the face of the globe. -He could not conclude with-
a magnificent gift ; but when they talked of oompensat- out expressing his surprise at the extravagant attempts
.ing the West India proprietors, lie denied it.. He re- which bad been made to draw a distinction between the
gretted, as he had stateA before, that they had taken produce that was slave grown and that which was not.
money, and thus fallen into the trap which was laid for How ridiculous were these distinctions, when it was im-
theM, • He utterly denied that they had been anything possible for any man to think for one moment of the ar-
. like compensated by the' sum which was granted. An titles of cotton and coffee without considering that those
Hon. Friend of his had said that the West India pro- were the produce -of the slavery-upholding country of
prietors had been hoodwinked by being absentees. He America. These distinctions were mere slanders, titlas
begged to inform him that many of them' had been in and fleeting, and raised for the purpose of deceiving the
the habit, from time to time, of visiting their estates; people of England. The great principle of free trade
but he was sory to add • that the visit had often • would be found, by extending commercial salvation to
been attended with mischievous effects. They had in- every portion of the globe, and by uniting together the
troduced hobbies of their own,•whielt had had a very dif- various portions of the habitable globe in the great bond
ferent effect from that which was Intended. He doubted, of interest, to be the means of spreading happiness and
too, whether absenteeism was necessarily an eviL With- amityall over the world.
out a eertain-degree of confidence, it was impassible that Lord SANDON would not have taken any part
any estate could be properly managed ; ho 'appealed to in the debate at the present stage of the question had, it
any Hon. Gentleman extensively engaged in commerce not been for__ the language which had ;wen
whether his statement did not hold good with respect to held by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, It'
that. There W4ll no part of the world in which agri- he could be convinced that the view which the Hon. and
cultural improvements were carried to a greater extent Learned Gentleman took of the importance of these
than in Jamaica. It was said that they aid nothing to colonies to the prosperity of the empire was correct,
compete with Manilla 'and other places, but he confi- although he could not agree with him as to the justice
dently contradicted that statement. (Hear, hear,) of the course which he proposed, yet he might be con-
They were told that . they wanted a sum of looney. vinced of its expediency; but when he looked to the pre-
What they wanted was• common justice, The Hon. sent circuniatances of the world whew he saw a system
Member for Stockport had'referred to monopolies in of restriction gradually growing up around us, and that
connexion with the colonial interest; but he begged to the more nations advanced in the freedom of their poli-
state his opinion that the projectors of those monopolies tical institutions the more averse they seemed to 'ea
-
believed that they were bound up with the great in- to the establishment of freedom of commerce, he
terests of the country at large, and that-the columns of could not consider these West Indian colonies, 'which
moncipolyowereein reality -the pillars of the empire's oealsumed British manufactures of the annual value of
greatness.—(Hear, hear.l. He- agreed with his Hon. three millions, in which there could be no hostile tariffs,
Friend, that this topic ought not to be made the watch- the inhabitants of which spoke our own language, pro-
-word- of party. He for one was so sick of the subject, fessed our own religion, and were of our own blood, as
that if there were any possible means of escaping from of no value. They had been told of the importance of
it he would -he most happy to do so. But in many cases the trade with the Brazils. Why, the exports of Bri-
' the tenant bad come to his landlord, shortly after taking tish manufactures to the West Indies were of infinitely
to the property, declaring that if he retained possession greater value than the exports to the Brazils; and what
he would not be able to pay the rent; in fhot, it was im- reason was there why they should be neglected because
possible that the estates could men the present system. they were part of the British empire? This was not e.
Now such Nitt.l:s At(' 043 of the facts.- He had been as vestion regarding a few West India proprietors only
:11TW-T 4114' possible; but they could not expect men who fled they forgotten the importance of' the West Ind*
,bid been living in comparative' affluence t4A he ruined colonies to the revenue, to the commerce, and to tba,
ithciiit raising their voice againit the, cause of their ruin. shipping interest of the country. Looking only to the
• Mr. ROEBUCK said he was sure his Hon. Friend interests of the proprietors, they should recollect ' that
ed for !Ir.:. West
who had just sat do% would-not accuse 'him of doing there had been a time when theyo v
6 ieceil.
.autNAg tvoia personal motives on that occasion; lint he India estates upwards of_B,oo , .small annually. 7raich was
so a vontribution eon)el net help feeling that a man's opiniopa might be
of the country as to be con/tdered of
spent iii this country. Was that
DO
governed very much by his peculiar position, and his to the wealth .
value ?Both the enemies and the friends of this countrt
views be greatly affected by his awn pecuniary interest,
They had been told
without any one being able to attribute to him improper hadvai at that time considered them of tv"
g, .at value and hue
11/4 ' great deal about
Now, all the_ ay, riters on free trade aci•
motives, - Now, he. took'his Hon. Friend in his true eha- Portance•e
/aeter as ap
:advocate for the West Indian, which was, in free t_
itted th.at
• i
4.9 e, Ills own interest, But before ho touched upon any colonies had a claim to have their
of his Honourable Friend's arguments,' lie would en- readmitted
produce
eat a discriminating duty wherever
detisvOtlr simply to bring before the House the the moth_ r- country imposed upon them peculiar
areal question at issue. There was a large pow- . burdens, Now, it mattered not whether that pecu-
in-6(14y which ministered materially tocomforts liar burden were a tax
t 4 . • or a restriction of labour. No
and happiness ' of the people of F.aiglaud, namely, doubt the compensation of mOOO,OOOl. was a: magnifi-
Sugar, which could be 4kix94 'from a large surface of cent sum for this country to give, but it did not compen-
the 41o°. - rvog.ano-part- Of the lobe it could he sate those who hullo receive it. Many of tAlose • whO
- ..... _._ ...._ • - - _ „

.lad received it had been ruined, and estate after esta'e
had been been thrown out of cultivation.: Now, although
they had' received a partial compensation , for their la-
bourer* they.had received none for the. loSs of. their
estates. But, setting aside the justice of the question—
, looking at it merely as a . question of sugar—nothing
could be more impolitic than to sacrifice the West India
..colonies. /he supply of sugar from the West Indies
amounted to one-sixth of the whole supply of Europe.
What a rise then would take place in the price of sugar
i f these colonies
.were destroyed. The true policy of
. this country, having this fine national estate on the other
_sideof the Atlantic, was, even at a temporary sacrifice, to
-, nurse it and carry it through its difficulties, to aid it,
if necessary,: with. funds and credit, and, above all, to as-
, sist with labour. If thef,wished for colonial prosperity—
if they wished for an increased production of sugar—if
. they wished to extinguish slavery and the slave-trade,
. they should assist the colonies with free labour. A great
experiment had been tried in those colonies—that ex-
- periment had succeeded, as far as the export of the
labourers were concerned ; but if they looked beyond
the colonies—if they looked to the negroes in other parts
of the world—unless they could satisfy the inhabitants
of slave countries that the colonial proprietors themselves
were in a prosperous:state— they.would not convince them
. that the experinient had succeeded. He hoped the Go-
, Ternment was prepares! to take a bold and decisive step
to supply. the colonies with free labour. They must take
the question boldly by the hand, and look it in the face.
- —(A laugh.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
attempted to throw the whole blame of the slave trade
on the colonies, end attempted to take it off the shoulders
of the mother country. It was, .however, the mother
country which had forced the slave trade on the colonies,
even at the time.that. the colonies had been desirous to
discontinue it. _The Honourable Gentleman. had talked
, loudly of the nefariousness of this traffic ; let - the
. House beware of . taking any step to give that
. nefarious . traffic increased activity.—(Loud cheers.)
If the House agreed to the resolution proposed by his
Hon. Friend, the Member for Dumfries, they must in-
evitably giVe increased activity to the slave trade. There
, was evidence to, prove that the refusal 'of England to
take slave-grown - sugar had materially assisted our
cruizers in. putting, down the slave trade—the trade had
stagnated in consequence ; but if they acceded to this
• proposition, although it might double the number of the
cruizers,, the slave-trade would to doubled. With re-
. Bard to the proposition of the Government, he feared that
• unless, they, took early, steps to promote the cultivating
, sugar in our cobanies, they would by exhausting the
supply of free-labour sugar give pro (onto an impetus to
',. the slave trade. Before he sat down.he would take the
• liberty of, recommending to the Government to give to
the West India colOnists the same advantages as' they
had given to the. Canadians—to confer upon them the
credit and confidence- of the mother country, and to ad-
vance them,. if requisite, pecuniary assistance. Not only
. were-the West Indies. an integral portion of the empire,
• but &most important and essential portion of it, and by
. . timely assistance of this eature they would not only
materially assist the,West Indian growers, bnt conciliate
. the sympathy and, 'confidence of all the colonists. This
step would likewise enable them to supply sugar at a
very reedereto rate of duty. _lle threw out these sug-•
gestions for the consideration of-the Government, and '
_ hoped they would not be entirely disregarded.
• • Mr. WARBURTON would not have risen but for the
last observations ,of the Noble. Lord. He was entirely
. opposed to making .any advance to the West Indians in
the shape of a Item,. and hoped some member.,of the
Government would.at. once express the opinion of the,
Ministry to the.earne,effect. . It was.urged that -the West
Indians %ere, under the existing rate of duty, in a most
.destitute conditien. Thep,. as no case could be made out
. for th me--as theywere as bad as they could, be—where '
• , was, theefee,,of-contineing to ,sacrifice the interests of the
_ . people of this country,totheir.pretended advantage? The
, returns ic)riehliad.heen .iaid
,oafthe table of that House
, clearly shovvedgeheirliling.iincrease of consumption as
.. compered with tea and Leave, and how injurious the high
rate of duty had been., .4.v,ust extent .of the 'commerce
or the coientey: was .s.'Acrifieeel to keep up this monopoly,
S-sear should, be admitted at a very moderate rate of duty.
Mr. Al 4 CLEAN centendCd that i the Parliament
m ,
of.thiacouptry ha-t sauctioat!the,shide trade; and even
• maintained. it at a time wilco the inhabitants of Jamaica
/led actually petitioned againstir. The Hon. and Learned
3lember (Sir. 11%-chuck) was net, therefore, . justified in
eayine that the "West_ Indian colonists hed•fostered and
encouraged dee eleive trade.. The Vice-President oPthe
- left 'of Trade,. had used, wilt? ambiguous. expressions
concerning th'o4le.v.e,teittle, Vkilich, 11 e would wish to hear
explained. ..11e thought that,. the protection which was
to lee given to ,the Wes;
_lndies
,carne . under the same.
category as the; eneett,ctioo . of, corn; -at 'home. On the
.seme principle that lit., was favourable to the one lie was,
~ favourable to tli-e'otlice.--e(IILar,. hear.) But, he hoped
that )11:s Bight Hon. Friend did not intent!.to degrade .
the cultivators of both 'parts of the empire.—(Hear.)
31e thanked the. Home fey , the attention with which it
, had heard him. - . -
_, .. :grangers were, then ordered to withdraw, and the
„gallery was clear. A., The House then divided, when the
, .
numbers were-- . >
For the Motion
.41gainst it;. . ,
. . AI he ori ty.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill. .
, On the, first Cie* being proposed,
, . Mr. P 1 MILES, . moved that ethe Chairman should
.
~ report.progrese, and ask lease to sit again to-morrow. •
Mr. )y,4k RD objected to the motion, unless some day
_ ~t:a,:•; siren him for bringing forward., his motion that
. stp(A.l in the paper for, to-morrow. . . .
JC i.:e rs 9 me short discussion, ! . • • .. . ,
•;„ The. Cilalnaheee reported progress, and obtainel leave,
,to sit amain.
.vEs-nuts IN CHURCHES. BILL. e.
XIIQ tiuse wen; into Committee upon this Bill.
Sir fl. iNgus said that in . parochial and religious
_,, ,metters scenes. had, latterly occurred of contention and :
.. , bitterness of a very, discreditable character, amounting.
at times 'almost to p_erzonal.violoce, :These scenes had,
~.,. occurred .in !twee. peri,shes—'n country parishes,..happily,
, . they had heard- nothing of them. The Bill might want,
Consideratien, arid quid in its details be amended; but he.
thought it called ler, and. therefore, trusted, .the House,
. , eveuld at once.proceed; to consider it clause by.clause. .
~ Mr. STAFFORD 0.',131t1f,N said, as the author of the,
, Bill, ho had 'onlyjb state that . fiom _Churchmen and
Disienters—oppOnents of cherch-reteshe had received
strong expressions of bpinion in.favpur,of the Bill. ,
Mr. ROEBCCK Could not eomprehend why things,
subject to ecelesiaSticat cognizaece should be .new so
suddenly separated frOrii their ancient jurisdiction.. , One
Of the subjects usually arranged under ecclesiastical
, * cogniiance wa,s_chnro-rates.. In :the parish church that
Matter was discussed,;
,but now a sort.of pru,dery.was to,
-j he introduced,, and by this Bill ne matter was therein to
he brought forward, unless,,, to quote. theet!pry words,.
"approved by gi Bishop." ' It, used to be, a favourite .
topic with lion. IV'eilibers oppOsite, especially the Right.,
Hon. Baronet (Sir R... 400, to ,talk of the wisdom of
se,our ancestors, , and, to express., a, wish,and to use ,their!
, efforts, to fashism everything in accordance with that
sentiment. Why . did they not act on it new ?--ewhy
, take from. under Chtirch c,ognizance,. that which the wis7,
: (iota of Mir, ance's`toriho entrusted ,to. it ? ' Was it that
.j
they now preferred to'act in accordance with the notions
of 'Young England;" or "'Little Britain'', as thpy had
... now come down ~,to ?—(Loud laughter.) This Bill
.. required . t'hae matters to,, be discussed Could not be,:
. to discussed " " unless'approved. of by thee BishoP." j
, It was introducing a'totallydistinet rule into the 'Church,l
of England; by a Bill too nr t sanctioned by. Government, ,
fur no member of the Government had introinced it. Was .i
it right that matters of such importance, which trenched]
on righte of the people-of this kingdoine should be brought l;
on by a private Member of that•ouee, on sorne,fanciful i
ideas of decorum? _ What was
as fit to he leiied, on the
people for Church purposes might, he, thought, be dis- ;
russet! in church without any indecorum. , Was it to be;
supposed that the Stone walls could be injured. by some,:
persons eaying sonic foolish,things therein?
.If that weeee
so, hew often ought the stone wall: to be OrePi.led•--7
(Laughter) Yet one ITuri. Gentlem a n stated that something ,
bad occurred in London; but let him bring forward his facts„,
' and state the grounds .on which he , undertook the
measure, Ile objected to ',Bishop i, having this power.
...
They ought,not to increase the power, of,Biellops, He, 1
for one, . would be rather inclined to curtail it. He
called, on the lion. Gentlenian to state distinctly, not in
this soft, way-7(Litughter)—what were the charges in
the
rinclictment on which he had founded this Bill.—
(Ilr. Stafford,V.,l44en-7“ I will do so."). . They
.would.
then hear, the statement of, the offenCes with,which the
Honourable Gentleman had to charge the people of
.England, anal which was to Feb them, of.,the privilegei,
they had enjoyed from time inimenioriel. They would
seehow. "flinch of those.acte were conglomerated to in-
duce him to rob the Reptile of this.power nod place it in,
the hands- of the Bishop, and give Itim,the power, by the
,thirc,l,v!auseeofelirecting that the, Meeting sheuld be held
. where, die,y, might please, and, not in that common house
of the iiirish, in _which those rgleetiiig4 were accustomed.
to be held.—(lrear, bear,) . s
Sir. R. Ye.lltliii,... said he wished te,subMit Whether it.
was l'aFliatnentary, to allow this discussion, and whether.
there was not, a resolution ordering that all Church'
enatecee and matters relating to the Church, should be
preceded by a resolution in a COmmitice of' the whole ,
House.,- ,
Mr.. Glt..E4 NE did not
.think
,that resolution applied
to the present Bill. . . .
Mr. ROE 141.0. i. sugge Aed that :the resolution should
be read.,
~,, „_ _ , e
t___
~
~.
. _ 'The resolution :was then, Feed,
,which stated
that, 'in ,
'religion, no bill
.or matterecenceriiing religious, matterF,
limo be Os-cussed, without a. previous resolution 4n ' '
Coutinittop,of the wholp,gouse. •
.. .
~
.Air, ROEBUPIC thought it was clear, • from the pre'-'
amble o 4 this ;Bill, that it related to,religious subjects,
Ile thought it pas: more fit for the Speaker to decide the
ii don than the , Chairman. ' He ,shonld, therefore,
-ties h. ' t. 6 ' Cle• •d I • tl ha.
•
"clove t.. 4, e.„...„lrman. Q eave ie
ic v.r
• . THE. LATE WILL F ORGEEIES..,— Illeg, discovery
S' the
After a. fqw- worde , Emig Mr,
e late will ,forgeries; the Bank of England have adopted,
toe els Sill., whiCl! bASl,.!?Vlqiltic4Pced iiii 1838
• , • . -. 1 ;sonic clew regulations with reference to ;the*anting powers.
.aer.,,mitßq ; stkid:,liejr-Ocol)qcted, bp, one. occasion, of 4ttorney for the sale or transfer of•stocko; , WWI an gppli,
. .
f the cation, is made fora where Lorsl „4,.! ebrp„ aelip was then Clienpellor~,o
Exchequer; h
~ , been epeekingehalf;an-h.ouri ,a. motion a1.,1
ion forwarded to the party ' • 'whose '.the k
st rids (•'d f or parties 111 name . stock
was made. thatthe Chairman should leave the chair, and
o_4 Eil FarneNal4etweliich the following is a 'COpy :—"Bank
lie was, obliged la, leegio thies- peech P..n.Cw; ant},, there- '
tbrneylor the traPnsferiof'st
ascitkbestanripade for
our
of at
fere, the gut it- the instance of 183;etlid 'not apply. .
request you will sign and return the lientterhav you: name ; I"
Mr, liur.r, seigge,sted to' his., Hon. end Learned stating the amount of stock to be transferredttaLf(Lteo this,
l'"iond,tbe Member, for Beth that it was not - competent •of the party to be your attorney.'! On the h !laPie
off s eet is the
'for ..,*(l4 I,3leairenee to le#Ye the chair- , , . , following letter, on the outside of _which a .postage stamp is
m 1... ixoE,r3usvc.,P•id ,e 'night be wrong,., :and he also affixed :--4 I wish to give, a power of attonaey for the
shoolk
.theeefore, nslethe. Chairman, as. being;tnere con- transfer of "X,--s-e stock." ,The.Benk will not in, any in-
:. , versant .ee 'Lk the pies a the- House to "enlighten him stance great a ;power. of, attorney
,uetil answers haye been
received from the parties to wheel the above letters have
e . how tei,eoeel.l.
.„,, . . , ,
.• - . •
•:. , mr. Go-,11,..Nb.,§p,id. it was competent tOtheilloneur- • been forwarded.'
.! _
W Informed that
COigtUPTIOI,.I.7-7,. e are , . . the ex.
able and t earn;ift ce'entleenan to move that be now leave .
the Chair .anol.'iteiott progress : but he elitin t think ! pense!ef the Liberal. party, in the South Lancashire
tht,itior,. ni,.4 rn ;,•, , •
a k 1; recourse.°—election, will rather exceed ip pope. ROw mtich has been
that n ode.—ctii:
sp!,,4,c,littenkau nee,..-....,ye to ..
" t in carrying monopolist can cannot
into tAlle,u,—' b, pcaker, in the meantime; hadecome . Veil ~ e -' • . proof,
5.,.,e „ . eent iffurther proof
1 tell • but the above fact, is suilic,.
Atr. 1.3,0E8T. ''''' "- ' :' '•
• •'
\
.• • . . said;' he understood what the Chair-were re uired 'of' the disgraceful state of the representa-
, mum mean,(' and,he should, therefore ..
.. when q ~ • ~ h 'accomplished without
- ae once t the ! tion, an election cannot e ,
0., . .(4 Y (', sti i -in $ll •!14QL4 7' Tsl, h! 'ci PU
' ' . - f such ' ' '" - amount of " filth a. _. le op
~►BY ereed Gerie";l the exyencliture o ten
Jeteerpntif~.;:

In answer, to a question from ,Mr, BUTT,. ;
Sir R. rEEL
.stated that he lad every. Aisposition to
give ,private Igembers,precedence on Wednesdays. The
1-19 n.
•member..himselfhad a 13111 on the paper for •Wed.
nesday, that stood for the.second,reading. would.not
object to tb,e,llon. Gentleman taking, the second reading
of that Bill on. Wednesday, , ,
,111 r. TUFNELL,.wished to know when the Edcle-
siastical Courts Bill would be proceeded with ? Ilelob-
jectcd, to the postponement of itto a late period of the
session ; if so, he, would. certainly speak upon e ery
clause, won every phrase of it. . .
sir s., VEW,4 said, however _great the tempt ion
which Ale lion. Gentleman,:had, held out- to hunj he
would not yet abandon the Bill., It .would be considered
at as, early a, period as was consistent with the due dis-
pharge pt public haisin.ess.-
The House then,went into. Committee_ on the
DISSENTERS! CHAPELS BILL..
The
soLICITOR-GENERAL brought forwari 0
tain verbal amendments on, the second and third chuEes,
which were agreed to. •
passed through Committee pro forma,
and
,the House resumed. ,
. SAVINGS' BANKS BILL. .
The !louse then went into. Committee On the Savings'
Bank Bill.
~ , .

,The Bill passed through Committee, and the House
resumed.
Mr. GROGAN brought,forward a Bill to regulate the
election and payment of coroners, and payment of 'wit-
nesses at coroners' inquests in, Ireland. ;
Several orders ofithe day .were then disposed of..
,POINT. STOCK COMPANIES REGULATIONS
BILL.
. Mr. O.4A,PSTONE, in moving the order of the, day
for the second reading of this, Bill, said that it, contained
several
.provisions which ,would require consideration,
and hp :would only ask the House to agree to the.second
reading,, with the understanding that the,Bill should be
fully discussed in Committee.
The Bill was then read a ,second time, and ordere I to
b:e
,conamitted on Monday. next. • ~
mg GILBERT UNIONS.
'Cai•tain PECHELL,moved that, the name of Colonel.
itulleston should be added to the Committee on the
Gilbert Unions.

Siy JAMES: GRAHAM said he would not oppose
the nomination of the
_lion, and Learned Gentleman

upon the Committee,
,although he was convinced that
the, services of his Hon. and Gallant Friend could not
be better bestowed than in his attentions to the Com-
mittee of which he was a Member.,

, . . .
Mr. 11, YORKE protested, against this , species of
patchwork legislation.
Mr. ,T.ER,RAND said that there was a rumour abroad
that the Right/lion.Baronet, the Secretary,for the Home
Department„,knew that the UPII, Member for. Yorkshire
,eauld not act. on the Committee when he, was nominated.
He put it, therefore, to the klon., and Gallant Member
Mr Brighton whether he *Quid withdraw his. motion
without taking thg sense of ,the Hpuse,?,
. Mr. COLVIT considered that the Committee was
.most
unfairly Composed, and that. it was pne which was
nOti calculated to do, justice.
WAKLEY said, that the fairest course! had
been adopted by the Qopunitteei in fag the minority had,
it all their own way.
4fter some
,short discussion, strangers were ordered-
0-withdraw ; and the ilovse :divided, when there apd

ror the motion ..„ ... . . 10
• Against 18
, Majority .. . . ...,..., 8
.
There not being forty Members prescnt,.the .House
adjourned at, one o'clock. • „

1..

~.. • .

•1

, ..

whether a Bill having the objects stated in the preamble
did not come within the purview of the resolution of the
House; which stated that all Acts relating to religion or
in matters cnncerning religion, should be first preceded
by a resolution of the House ?
The SPEAKER said; he had no hesitatton in saying
that this Bill, comparing it with other Bills of this de-
scription, was not a Bill so far relating to religion as to
make it necessary to move a resolution in a Committee
of the whole House.—(Cheers.)
Mr. R. YORKE begged to submit to the Right Hon.
Gentleman whether this course was not adopted with
regard to the Bill for the reduction of Bisbops and the
Church Leasing Bill ?
After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, which did not reach us,
Mr. WARBURTON said it appeared to him, that on
the surface many objections might be raised to this Bill.
The parties were not to meet to discuss the question of
Church-rates and other matters in the parish church,
but instead of this they were to meet in a room. Now,
he thought that vestries ought not to meet in public-
houses. It had been often remarked, indeed, that pa-
rishioners were more liberal in voting money after din-
ner than before it; besides, there was not an absolute
prohibition of meetings in churches, for the Bishops were
empowered by the 3d clause to give a license for the
holding of a meeting. He thought it would be better to
prohibit such meetings altogether than to provide for
their being held under the direction of a Bishop. There
were 11,000 persons interested in this Bill, and as he did
not suppose the Hon. Member would inform them that
he had held correspondence with each of these parishes,
he thought it would be better that the Chairman should
report progress, in order that due notice might be given
of its effect to all parties concerned. ,
Mr.ESCOTT concurred in the view which had just been
expressed. The second reading of the Bill was carried
whilst he sat in that House paying every attention to its
proceedings, but he declared that he had not the most
distinct idea of the nature of its proviiions.-:--(Hear,
hear.) The Bill had been originalty applied to Ireland,
as well as to England, but the clause relating to Ireland
had since been struck out.—(flear, hear.)
Mr. JERVIS would like to know what' the Right
Hon. Baronet the Secretary of pip.to for the Home De-
partment had to say in reference to this Bill.—(Hear,
hear.) The first section took away from the church
wardens all control over the freehold of the church and
gave it to the Bishop. This was in direct opposition to
the Act with respect to the select ves-
tries. This clause opened all select vestries
and by declaring that the inhabitants: were at liberty to
be present, declared that they had a right to vote. That
clause rendered the people at the " Red Lion," next door
to the church, liable to ecclesiastical censure. Lastly,
the gentleman whO drew up the,Bill, as if not aware
that Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, and Sark, were subject
to the jurisdiction of England, had introduced a clause,
declaring that such was the case.—(Laughter.)
Mr. HUME thotight that, under the circumstances, the
chalianan had better report progress,
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN, expressed his regret that
no member 9f the Government had spoken in ,reference
to the Bill., It was impossible for, him to, answer the
many objections which had been made to it., Some of
the provisions appeared to be stringent. The Hon. and
Learned Member, for Bath had asserted. that the Bill
had origiaated in some squeamish scruples and exagge-
rated views of the party calling itself " Young England."
Whether he numbered , him (Mr. Stafford O'Brien)
amongst that party he could ,not say ; nut he was not so
bigoted_to old usages and ancient institutions as to re-
fuse to concur in changes which :were necessary in the
altered condition of
,the country. The Hon.. and
Learned Member said, the principle of the Bill was new.
Now if he might take what, he, read in the statute-book,
instead of what he heard from an authority so far higher
in his own estimation, than the statute book(liear,
hear)—he *hould sa3r that the principle was at least
thirteen years old.
_He would not give up. the Bill until
he had heard stronger reasons, against it than had been
advanced that night. ;He did notantiCipate LIT support
of her Majesty's Government. He had not lind an op-
portunity of consulting theca in private, and to do so an
public was perfectly hopeless. . - f
Sir R. PEEL said he :had not .had,au opportunity of
considering this Bill, but he thought ,there ,were objec-:
tions to it which were worthy of. consideration. He
would not, however, Aupport. any proposition which
would have the effect of . crushing„ the Bill, but he
would recommend his Hen. Friend to, agree, to any mo-
tion by which, the Bill
.could come on- for consideration
on afiiture day. : ,
Mr. MIME moved that the .Chairman report progress.
Mr. ROEBUCK thought,such a Bill as this ought not
to be introduced,,except with , the . authority of: the Go-
yernment. , , .
• !.9.ir IL PEEL said 'it was too much to ask that no
MemberApuld be allowed, to bring in a Bill if he
thought, proper.
Mr. ACKLAND said he could not , allow the discus.
sion to terminate without,expressing his thanks .to his
Hon. Friend the Member for Northamptonshire, for hiv-
ing introduced this Bill., ,
M. HAWES had mentioned as an inconvenience the
fact, that sufficient publicity, was not now given to the
notices relating to the holding of vestries, and.. had pro-
posed that those notices should be, affixed to the doors of
the Dissenting places of worship in .the ,parishes as well
as to the churches. lie had mentioned this to the Hon.
Member for Northamptonshire, who had stated .that he
had
,no objection to the introduction, of a clause to re-
medy that evil, There was, however, one objection to
the Bill, which he feared would be insuperable.—(Hear,
hear.)... This measure would affect all the parishes
in, England. The Hon. Gentleman was, therefore,
bound to make out a case ,of general abuse in order to
justify a: general ~measure. ,Now, although some few
instances might have: occurred, which they .m.ust all
regret, yet he doubted whether. the Hon. Gentleman
could prove anything like ,such a case of abuse as would
justify a general measure. -
. Mr. WAWN thought that they ought rather to 'en-
deavour to, reheye those who were not members of the
Church from ,church,rates, than to add to this tax.
The House then resumed, the Chairman reported pro
gress, and askPdipave,to sit again on Wednesday week.
, _ , - . BIJSINBSS OF £kIE HOUSE.

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS.

Imam THE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY.

GLOBE.—We perceive that Mr. Christie has given
notice of a motion to insert a clause in the Ecclesiastical
Courts Bill, for admitting graduates of all the English
Universities to practice in the Ecclesiastical Courts. We
hope the House of Commons will agree to this reason-
able proposition. It would do something towards less- n-
ing the various mischiefs which the Bill proposes to
inflict on the public, among them, that of allowing
the country practitioner to unite in his single person
the combined characters of proctor and attorney, and
to pocket the costs of the double profession. It has
been found in practice, that a business in common law
and conveyancing, with occasionally a little bankruptcy,
is as much as a country practitioner—deprived as he
is of the opportunity of immediate reference to coun-
st-I.—can conveniently manage. Although fond of ap-
pending " solicitor " to his name, it is very unusual,
except in the large towns, to practise in that branch
of the law. If, then, a competent knowledge of
the practice and procedure of the Court of Chancery
is found incompatible with a due attention to the tech-
nicalities of bankruptcy and common law, we leave it
to our readers to imagine what a medley of confusion
will arise from this incorporation of ecclesiastical
" quips, quaintnesses, hieroglyphics, and enigmas." It
will be something to alleviate the mischief by a mixture
of 'gentlemen who have received a liberal education.
Another effect will be, that Dissenters who, on ac-
count of objections which have force with them, may
hereafter find themselves involved in a church-rate suit,
may have their interests represented, if they choose it,
by counsel who have graduated at the London Uni-
versity, and are themselves Dissenters. We do not
consider this of particular importance so far as any
individual contest may be alone concerned. We have
no doubt that the case of a Dissenter is as sedulously
and efficiently advocated by a counsel of the most High
Church principles as it would be by one of his own
views. But it does not end here. It is but reasonable,
it is indeed important to the general well-being and to
the interests of the Establishment itself, that among the
gentlemen who practise in its Courts, should be found a
not inconsiderable section whose personal feelings lead
them to look with jealousy on any procedure which
bears hard on the Dissenters. The Church gains no-
thing by making martyrs. John Thorogood's range
of neat cottages at Chelmsford, built with the proceeds
of a subscription raised by his sympathisers, and,
quaintly enough, called after the churchwardens who
imprisoned him, settles this point. The severity of his
punishment has not more deeply impressed the good
people of Chelmsford, or the generality of the commu •
nity, in favour of the Establishment. We may, there-
fore, take it for granted that the Church will maintain
its ground with more ease to itself, and advantage to the
public, by cultivating peace with the Dissenters, and by
divesting collision, where collision is unavoidable, so
far as possible;of its present irritating character. Now
we all know the influence of the bar upon the adminis-
tration of the laW, and even upon legislation. While
the, administration of ecclesiastical law is entrusted
to a body, the entire of whom are, if not hostile, at
least alien to the feelings of Dissenters, nothing can
be more certain than that, as against them, much un-
necessary hardship and irritation is unavoidable. When
a Dissenter has pleaded his own cause, he has frequently
damaged it by a woful ignorance of ecclesiastical
,practice. Where he has confided it to counsel, however
eminent, the strictly legal points of the case have alone
been
_brought before the Court. When the judge has
pronounced sentence it decides against a course of
conduct which 'the very counsel who defended it
was unable to appreciate or even understand, and
With which, therefore, he could not sympathise.
FeW as May be the parties whom defeat leaves satis-
ffed with the justice of other courts, it is morally im-
possible that, as things are at present consitituted, a
,DisSenter should ever be satisfied with the justice of the
courts' ecclesiastical.' -He looks now to an adverse de-
cision, and his consequent imprisonment, as the last
links in 'the chain of oppreision. His enemies, he thinks,
haVe then done their worst ; and he naturally resolves
that when that worst is ended, he will do his. Upon
the unhappy effect, as to both parties, we will not com-
ment. We trust the House of Commons will consent, to
the intreatiction of -Mr. -Christie's clause into the Bill.
We cannot but believe that the hardships.of the existing
law, so far
,as regards Dissenters, would be mitigated
by it, and we hope ultimately reformed altogether, by
the- admission of Dissenters into the ecclesiastical courts.
It might prodnee a series of improvements, like many
of the ChanCery orders of the last sixteen years. Pro-
Mulged like them, after being subjected to the careful
'scrutiny of the leading members of the profession, the
practice would receive many ameliorations, which no
Act of Parliament can be expected to effect. Were the
!it-iv thus made Certain, rather than harsh, and prompt in
decision rather than oppressively expensive, a different
spirit would speedily be imparted to these contests. The
effect would be similar in kind to that which the cha-
racter of an eminent minister of the Establishment is
kneWn to have prodUCed—Who, for his fervent piety and
a'tolerance so ample that he is probably unconscious of
its influence, has been repeatedly characterised as " the
most dangerous enemy with whom Dissent has had to
deal"

STANDARD.---The intelligence brought by the
Queen of the West, which left New York on the 21st
ult, developes a little more fully the projected policy
of Governor Tyler, in reference to the annexation of
Texas. The President has made, upon the demand of the
senate, a communication, from which it appears that,
anticipating no difficulty at home to the final ratifica-
tion of the late treaty, he had prepared for a war with
Meiico as the immediate consequence of the arrange-
ment, ordering a fleet to the Mexican Gulf, and an army
to the frontier. This is the President's own account of the
affair, but Mr. Tyler must be a very weak man
if it, is. a true account. None but a very weak man
could so much miscalculate the feelings. of the
Senate to ,say nothing of the interests of the whole re-
public, as to fancy that the treaty would not be ob-
structed; and, under that delusion, to present belligerent
preparations, justifying the obstruction, and making his
government ridiculous. , A. solution of the affair more
respectful to Mr. Tyler's understanding, if net to his
,honesty, is the hypothesis that be sought to provoke
a, quarrel_ with Mexico by martial display,
,the,effect of which would be to enforce the success of
his darling .scheme, of annexation ; for though a
war might not, necessarily follow the final rati-
lcation of the late treaty, it is very cer-
tain, that all parties in the United States
would, agree to , a
.hurried ratification, as soon as
they, had heard of a single act of hostility on the
part of the Mexicans., Be this, however, as it may,
one fact seems to be clearly established by
Mr. Tyler's Message, and that is, that whether before
or after the annexation of Texas, a war with Mexico
must accompany that arrangement,; and this war
, will be a very serious thing. It is true that.there is
apparently no proportion between the respec-
tive powers of ,the two, republics, but when
,climate and .a difficult country are on the side
of , the , defenders, , these. will go a great way
t 4)" compensate the, preponderance of numbers, and even
of military qualities, on the other side. And then
there is the slave population in the United States ;
and everywhere a slave„ population is, and ought
to be, the ally of the enemy of the slaveholders.
The contest on the land side would there-
fore be by no means so inevitably favourable
to the United States at. first :night appear, and though
successful in the end, the United States might find that
they had. made but a sort of Algeria conquest—an
earnest, of future and. more perilous wars with more
formidable opponents. On the side of maritime war,

-
again, the United States appear to possess an immense
- - -

superiority over Mexico, Iv-filch may be more apparent
than real ; the States themselves, we believe, it was who

_first set the example of very liberally lending a national
flag to privateers, and even borrowing the enemy's
own ports to fit out these torments of commerce. It
cannot be forgotten that the so-called American
privateers , by, which our commerce suffered most
, in the. American revolutionary war, were in fact
fitted out in British ports, and too often manned by
, renegade British seamen. Now, the United States must
,expect something of the kind in a war with Mexico.
The drab men of Pennsylvania would not scruple a pro.
, fitable investment in the plunder of their felbw-citizens,
any more than they would balk at a project for
cheating their kinsmen of England. A war even
with. Mexico would, in this way, annihilate the
commerce of the United States ; while Mexico
would. all the while become, richer and stronger,
_both in resources, and alliances. The journals of the
,United States seem to have a pretty just view of the
necessary effect of this disgraceful scheme of Pre-
sident Tyler, to entrap the• commonwealth into a
ruinous war ; and some goso fax as to'eall for his im-
peachment. As to the impeachment, it is a matter
upon which we, as foreigners, have no right
to offer any opinion, further than to remark that the be-
ginning of, a course, of impeachments is unfortunately
most dangerous in those systems of government where
unfortunately impeachments arc most frequently neces-
sary—namely, in democracies. The case must be a strong
one which authorises unsheathing the sword of justice
against .a magistrate anywhere, particularly where the ma-
, gistrate's commission is the sole controlling influence; and
yet in democracies, for this very reason, that they are
subject to no rivalships of royal, aristocratical, or other
traditional moral influence, magistrates are most likely to
1, provoke , vindictive justice by abuse of their position.
.The inference is, that democracy is a bad form of govern-
ment, that gives birth to dangerous crimes, which itself
wakes-more dangerous to punish. These considerations
however, apart, it is satisfactory to see that the Presi.
dent's warlike and ambitious propensities are not popular
in the States. ,

SINOFLAR PRRSERVATtON FROM DEATIL-011 the
29th ult., & boiler at South Towan mine, in the parish of
Mogan, exploded while the engineman was standing on the
top of it. The poor fellow was blown through the roof of the
engine-house, but after a little time he was so far recovered
as to be able, with the assistance of a friend, to walk home.—
West Briton. .

' • CATCHING A TARTAR.-:---Ati Deaf Burke, the pu-
gilist, was on Wednesday afternoon passing through Smith-
field, accompanying a friend and his wife in a phaeton, intend-
ing to pass a few hourS in the country, the party were grossly,
insulted by en athletic country wagoner—one of those nu-
merous ruffians who are mostly to be found in that vicinity,
and who think, from their physical strength and prowess, to
escape with impunity in insulting' any well-dressed person.
On this occasion the yokel was completely out of his reckon-
ing ; the deaf-un, with true gallantry, allowed the carriage
to pass on to a short distance on account of the lady present,
and then returned to the aggressor. The insulting terms
were repeated, the Goliah of a. countryman looking down
with contempt upon his dwarfish opponent. A " set-to" WI-
. mediately took place, the countryman was floored three
times in almost as many seconds, and much punished about
the face before he could tell who he had to deal with. The
countryman having declared he had had enough, the deaf-un
retired amidst the congratulations of several respectable per-
sons who had witnessed the Insult, and its speedy and ef-
fbctilttithastisement.--.Sundap Times. - •