The Sun.
London, England, 1826-05-20 00:00:00

MANUFACTURING DISTRESS.

Lord MILTON felt the time was now arrived, when, in con-
sequence of the approaching conclusion of the sitting of that
Ilouse; and the improbability of the motion of his Hon. Friend
fur Coventry relative to the Manufacturing Interests coming on
this evening, it because his duty to put again that question to the
Right lion. Gentleman, the Foreign Secretary, which he had on
a termer occasion declined to answer. He did' not now repeat
the question through a mere motive of curiosity, but for the pur-
pose of eliciting information which it was important for the in-
terests of society should no longer be withheld ; and he trusted
that under such circumstances the Right Hun. Gentleman would
not hesitate, speaking officially as a Member of Government, to
acquaint the House cod the country, whether it was intended by
his Majesty's Government to propose any measure of relief by a
grant of public-money to the distressed manufacturers.
Mr. Secretary CANNING, in reply to the question put to
Lim by the, Noble Lord for the second time, must observe that
his formal disinclination to answer that question could easily
be accounted for;. inasmuch as that in a case of such delicacy,
every delay,' even a • delay of twenty-four hours, tvas of very
great importance, from the circumstance of its affording opportu-
nity to his Majesty's Ministers to collect more accurate details of
the operation and extent of the distress experienced by this class
of his .Majesty's subjects. In the attempt now made by the Noble
Lord to elicit information, he must say the conduct of the Noble
Lord Was perfectly proper and consistent. He begged to be un-
derstood, in the answer he now felt disposed to give to that ques-
tion, that lie was far from saying there were no cases in which it

might not be proper, on the part of his Majesty's Government, to
depart from the general principle on which it was in all ordinary
cases bound to act. With respect to the interference of his Ma-
jesty's Government, in any cireurostancesi a case ought to he made
sot of an overruling necessity ; a (mac, which shut out the hope
of relief from other source*, and which threatened a permanency
of the evil tb be redressed. In the present instance be was bound
for say,' that the circtimstcucce of the case did not appear
to be' such as would bear out his Majesty's Government in
vial a departure from the sound, general principle. The dis-
tr,c4 had been great, it was true. It had also been borne
wherever it had been felt with exempThrypatience.-(Loud cheers.)
—A consideration which, more than any other, would have
wsiglied with Ministers, had it been doubtful whether a mea-
sure of relief should have been recommended, though at the
expellee of the principle. Private charity had flowed in, how-
ever, ill such a stream as led them and others to infer that it was
ass yet only beginning, and that it was restrained and checked
ouly.from the circumstance of its being still a matter of doubt
weedier those die-U.6l4es would not be 'relieved from other
ecurces than those of private charity. Under this impression
he must say, that notwithstanding the various and conflict-
ing views which' bad been taken by many of the question, it
was not his intention to propose to the House a grant of public
money to meet and alleviate the disttessee alluded to. A grant
would ..doubthrta atop the current of public charity. He had
just receittek accounts that the distress was already beginning to
be less felt. Much praise was certainly due to those gentlemen
who had so freely comm tinicated with his Mitjesty's Government
eo the character and. extent of the distress, from which much all-
vantage must always result; but more was yet dile to the laud-
able' exertions of. thew gentlemen' who bad been charged with the
distribution of the-funds collected, The aspect of that distress
was certainly improving t he regretted to add, not act much so as
to make it unnecessary still to appeal to private charity, though
appearances did not call on his Majesty's Ministers to sin against
the principle. It would be the more inexpedient and inadvisable
that Parliament should interfere in this instance and extend the
13 awl of benevolence to the manufacturers in their: dietresses, which
in the case of the distresses experienced so generally by the agri-
culturists not long since Parliament had,felt it utterly nut of its
power to grant. After an attentive investigation and. mound eon.
sideration of the circumstances of the ceast, such had been the de-
termination of his Majesty's Government, and he hoped that both
the Reeve sad the public were persuaded that they had not been
ay.:seated by any insensibility to those distresses, iu reconciling
themselyea to that doterminattori.—(lmo cheers.).
The Petition was then read and ordered to be printed.
Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON rose to *sent a Petition
which referred to the -subject about to be submitted' to their con-
aideration 'by his Hon. and Learned Friend. The petition was
signed bysB,ooo persons in the City of Glasgow, and it tempe-
rately called'On the House to early into effect, as soon as possible,
the three. resolutions which it bad already passed on the subject of
the abOlition of slavery its the West Indies.' • The temper and lan-
guage of the petitioners' 'would, he believed, be. found strictly to
correspond with the humane objects they had in view.—Ordered
to "be printed.

Mr. BLAIR ftle it his duty in cofulequerice of what the Noble
Lord had said, se to the getting up of the petition from Citsige,6
that the p.:s;tiots was suothi,r instance of the tricks which the
Methodists and Dissenters had recourse to for the purpose of in-
flaming the public mind by misrepresentation. In order to swell
the number_ of signatures to that petition, the. subBcriliers were in
ninety-Pine caws out of a hundred, school-hoys, colliers and ear.;
ten, or parsons whO had nu property.--KA. laugh, and cheering.)
Ford A. HAMILTON said, he spoke on the representation of
asiother, Mr. Thomas Addison ; be himself being in London
whets the Petitioa was signed.
Mr. BLAIIt was perfeetly certain he spoke from good sixth°.
rity, indeeA he bad been fully authorised to use the name of his
inlet inset, Charles S. Parker, a man of great respectability.
Mr. A. CAMPIJELL corroborated the , preceding speaker.
1111 Many sellouts all the boys went obliged to sign, some ,of
afeto signing six or even seven times over.-...(A
bottiblu Merchant's sons were compelled by, their 3Cboolnittater
to girl their names two or three thnes over to eke out the sig.
neural.
'Mr. 'BROUGHAM said nothing was more frequent. than such
&ore es these, where a considerable anxiety prevailed on any
ithiportant subject under Pavliameutary discussion. It was only a
40 'conflicting evidence,:
"ftlic T. MESON considered the artifices resorted to by the
Aiiii.slavey Societies ' were unfair, and totally, unworthy of a
good cause.- .-If the Noble Lord opposite were not so totally igno-
the Matter, Ise. would hare- asked Lint` ::it. he- were awe
14,
Skit they left papers with the representation of a. slave in

in order to get persons to sign a piece of paper to be tacked to a
Petition they had never read or seen ?
The Petition was read and ordered to be printed.
Lord STANLEY rose to state, that some months since the
BoreughrSeve of Manchester was requested to bold an Anti-Sla-
very Meedrig of the Townspeople, which he had refused for some
reason beat :known to himself. A Meeting; however, took place,
iit4cinseqttence of Sir Roger Moseley the Lord of the Manor, eon-
Se ntink to convene.a Meeting 'relative to the seine subject, namely,
the propriety of abolishing Slavery. A PetitiOn was agreed to on
the subject, and so conscientious were they in refusing any double
aignatores, that above- fifty Subscribers' names in duplicate were
erased, and nine hundred .a.solittely refused, for some alleged con-
scientious objections. The Petition be now bad to present, con-
sisted of forty-tme thoysand names, all which he was instructed
to say were genuine. •
•
Mr. PHILIPS observed; that the conduct of the Boroughreeve
On that occasion Was highly censurable, and
.had nut with general
reprobation.
'After a few words front Mr. Wa.atte and Mr. W. Howrott,
the Petition was read and laid on the table.
SLAVERY.

Mr. BROUGHAM was, for some time after he rose, inaudible
in the gallery. When we first might his language, he was com-
menting upon the Orders of Council, promulgated at Trinidad,
which were entitled t.dtlit. first place in his attention, as they form,.
ed the basis of the regulations which were to be enforced in the
other conquered colonies, and of • those to be recommended for
adoption in those colonitsi-which have Legislatures of their own. Ile
would venture to state one or two points in which the Orders in
COuneil appeared to him to be imperfect. One of their most im-
portant beads was that which related to Slave evidence. It was made
admissible only in the case of such slaves as had obtainedu certificate
from a minister of religion, that they had evinced such moral and
religions qualities:lß entitled their oath to attention. He saw no rea-
son why slaves, as well as any other persons, should not he admitted.
to that preliminary examination, which took place in this country,
where a Pagan, a Mahometan, or a person of no religion at all,
provided only he believed in 'the existence of.a Deity, and in a
future state, was a competent witness. This regulation was,
however, praiseworthy for its liberality; for the qualifying
certificates might be given by Dissenting. Ministers, as well as
by those- of the Establishment. Objections had been'etated to
the rbnission•ef slave evidence in cases where their master was
a party. He did not recognize the force of this objection. What
he thought particularly objectionable was, the limitation as to
the nature of the offences,. on the. trial of which slave evidence
was to be received. , He saw no reason why they should not be
competent witnesses on the trial of capital as well as clergyable
offences. By these regulations the Protector or Guardian of
Slaves was precluded from holding property in plantations or
,in
slaves ; but this prohibition, did not extend to the • holding such
property in any other Island than Trinidad, nor to the owner-
ship of domestic slaves even there. Prejudices against the Ne-
groes were more likely to arise from the possession of do-
mestic slaves than any other, as this brought the master and the
slave into the closest contact. The regulatiwt besides did not
apply to any but the principal guardian—the subordinate protec-
tors or guardians were exempt from it. Ile was thefore anxious
that these measures should be carried further. The abolition of
the Sunday markets was commuted into a restriction forbidding
the holding of them after ten o'clock, and though this might pro-
mote a due observance of the Lord's Day upon the plantations'
in the immediate vicinity of the market, it could not have that
beneficial effect with respect to. those slaves whose homes were
distant from it. There was no remuneration provided for their
loss by abstaining front working their provision grounds on the
Sunday. So that in fact, no temptation was held out to the due
observance of the day. The separation of husband and wife
was prohibited in cases of judicial or compulsory sale, hut allowed
in the case of voluntary sale ; an arrangement which might, he
thought, be very naturally and properly as well as very bene-
ficially reversed. He objected particularly to the punishment in-
flicted upon slaves who had made accusations certified by the
Magistrate to be unfounded. This proceeded upon an erroneous
principle of legislation. They should be judicially, and not sum-
marily punished. They were now punished in the worst possible
way. They were *cut back to their master, irritated by having
been made the object of accusation, and he became at once the
judge and the executioner. He had thought it hie duty to point
out these defects in the Order in • Council, but still he admitted
they were as nothing to their manifold excellencies. They ought
to be, and he trusted they would he, steadily and resolutely en-
forced. The orders issued at Demerara were less perfect than
those at Trinidad, particularly in respect to the point of slave
evidence, anti the manumission of slaves. Besides these, there
were fire other Colonies under the legislative power of the
CrOwn. in not one of these hail any thing been done. He
was not urging any charge, but such he understood to be the fact.
Ile then came to consider the case of the Thirteen Colonies

which had Legislatures of their own. In these, with the ex-
ception of five or six of them, nothing had been done. In six
of them the return was nil under every column, viz. Antigua,
13ermuda, Nevis, St. Kitt's, .Tortola, andllontse.rrat. In these

it was not even pretended that any thing had been dons. He
would then turn to Jamaica, the most important of our West
India Colonies: In this Colony improvements might be sup-
posed to be the easiest,'snd for obvious reasons it was likely to
be the most under the influence of English feelings. The
Honourable and Learned Member then entered into .detailed
statements to show that the Order in Council had not been
attended to with respect to any of its recommendations. A
very feeble and imperfect measure had been brought before
the House of Assembly, providing for the admissibility of
Slave evidence in certain cases and upon certain conditions,
. . .

and it was rejected in-such a manner as to leave but little hopes
to the friends of amelioration from the Colonial Assemblies.
With respect to religious instruction, be could not agree in opi-
nion with the Right Rev. Prelate the Bishop of Jamaica, that
the state of things was highly satisfactory: Building and endow-
ing churches were the only means the Right Reverend Prelate
would acknowledge as likely to be efficacious. He thought that
teaching the slaves to read would be very beneficial, at least, as an
auxiliary measure. He begged to be understood that in speaking
of the conduct of the Jamaica House of Assembly, he was urging
no accusation against that body. Their conduct was governed by
the general temper of the dominant 'prejudices of the commu-
nity in which they were placed. The Honourable and Learned
Gentleman then alluded to the violent prejudices which prevailed
against Sectarian teachers. It was his opinion, that Sectarian
preachers and teachers were best fitted to instruct and reform
the population of these islands, 'and this opinion he was happy
to say he held in common with many of the most enlightened
Gentlemen connected with the Colonies, and amongst them,
with his Honourable Friend, the Member for. Taunton. He
would next advert to the progress made in Barbadues. The
first report from that island was under every orlumn nil. A
supplemeetary report had however recently arrived, and be
learned from that last report that several important measures
had' been adopted. lie did not mean to say that any thing had
been done in pursuance of the Order in Council : they had been
doing much worse than nothing. The Bon. and. Learned Mem-
ber then entered into a detailed statement of the recent enact-
ments of the Legislature of Barbadoes, the whole of which were
copied from old laws of the islands, with such additions and
modifications as rendered them mischievous rather than bene-
ficial. One of these enactments promised manumission, and a
pension foe life, to any slave who, in case of invasion or rebel-
lion, killed, by any means, one or snore of the enemy or the
rebels. Another imposed severe punishment upon any slave who
employed insolent language or 'gestures to or against any white
or free person, or for cock-fighting, or for riding a horse upon
any road faster than a foot's pace,. or for driving at a snore rapid
rate than a slow trot. For any of these offences he was to re-
ceive not more than 39 stripes. The Hon. and 'Learned Gentle-
man enumerated a variety of other regulations which he deemed
'highly objectionable -respecting the slaves, and contrasted their
severity with the mildness of the punishment to be, inflicted by
this law upon a white or free person, inflicting bodily injury,
short of death, upon a slave. 'Suck white person would be sub-
ject to fine. or imprisonment, at the discretion of the Court : no
minimum fixed. He might cut off the leg or arm of a slave, and
be punished perhaps; by a fine of Is. - It would be too severe to
inflict upon him, for so alight an offence, - the' thirty-nine stripes
to which a slave would be subject for the grave crime of deviating
from a legal pace in riding n horse. , Then there was the wan-
tonly, cruelly, and maliciously bruising of slaves ;---what was the
punishment for that? Let Gentlemen remember that the bruising
might amount to such an injury as would make the slave mise-
rable for life; and the punishment was, a penalty of twenty five
pounds. On the other hand, if any slave should hear aunther
slave use words having a tendency to mutiny, or should know 'of
such words, having been used, and did not immediately disclose the
same to his or .her owner, what was the consequence? Let Isis
Hoe. Friend see these words—he was a lawyer, and knew
their importance..--” having a tendency to mutiny." How was
the poor slave to know whether certain words had or bad
not A tendency to mutiny, when that point was, frequently
the one which a Jury found it Most difficult to determine? But
what !was the .punishment for this offence? Was it a penalty of
or the infliction of 49 stripes ? No; the negro was pis-
oFirsiletenddw-(ilir. with death,
whoth.llelged the attention of his Honourable
this, if he Out more‘p4wircuituarlkivingentngagaednothuepronMeasber) to
any
yother
subject. There Wert Puny other things in this Act of 192 b,

which claimed the attention of the House, which Act had been
considered by its antborp, as the acme of , wise legislation, and
which was splendidly to clew their labours in forwarding the greet ,
work of diffusing justice, abolishing cruelty, and ameliorating, the
general condition of the slave. - To say that he was disappointed
with this legislation of the. House of Assembly at lierhadoes—that
lie had In uch rather the Act had not passed—that he believed it
only made things worse—would only he to express the opinion
of an individual who would be charged With prejudices upon the
subject. ,But the same disappointment was expressed by the Go-
vernor ot. the Island in his despatch to Lord Bathurat.• To
know that nothing more was intended to be done, they had only
to look at - the declaration of the House of Assembly by its
Speaker at the close of their labours. His words were—" Neither
thread nor persuasions shall induce us 'to put the finishing hand
,to our own political, or perhaps natural existence." What
they, meant by putting the finishing hand to their own existence
was',—coniphance with the Orders in Council. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman then proceeded to the acts of the Legislature
of the Bahamas, and contended that nothing which they :bad
dime approached to is semblance of the Trinidad Order in
Council. lie contended that all the provisions they had made
since the passing of the resolutions of that House, 'were either
nugatory'iti their necessary effect, or to be found in some former
Acta of the Colonial Governments. He stated that, the Act pasted
on the fiBth of January, I_o4, providing for the religious instruc-
tion of the slaves, was copied verbatim from the 6th section of the
Act of 1796,- Another provision was that of suspending all taxes
heretofore levied on the manumission of slaves; whereas in a do-
cument dated itt the year 1822, and signed "13. Nisbett,V the
Secretary to the Government of the Bahamas, it was stated that
there was no tax upori'mnnumission. • The clause relating to pit-
uishinent was precisely the same in substance as the corresponding
section in the Act of 1796, except the limitation to private punish-
ment in the case of female slaves, under a penalty of 101. Every
one of these clauses were paraded through the Report as improve-
ments made since 1824. whereas every one of them were to be found
in different sections of the Act of 1796. lie then went to the
Acts of the Legislatures of Tobago, Grenada, Dominica, and St.
Vincent's, contending that driving had not been effectually pia
'down, and that slave evidence was not rendered admissible by the
Acts purporting to accomplish those ends. These were the illu-
sive, and, if he did not wish to avoid personal. reflections upon
the parties, he would say, deceptions enactments, which were held
up as the greatest extent to2which these Legislators would be in-
duced to go. He pledged himself to the.aceuracy of his general
statement, anctif it were denied, he had the old Acts by him, and
would engage to satisfy any Gentleman by instant reference, that
what had been done since 1623 was not new, or had not been
done in compliance with the expressed wishes of the House. To
repeat those wishes, and to send out for the hundredth time the
same decision, 'would only be lkying the ground for fresh opposi-
tion and fresh failure. r Helmd felt it his duty to give the House
an opportunity, by its vote of that night, of letting it be known
in the West Indies—of letting it be known in this country—but
above all, of letting it he known to, the West Indian Legislatures
—who were disregarding; and would continue to disregard the
authority of that House, until it aroused to a just feeling 14 the
indignity--of letting them know that if they persisted in refusing
to do their duty, the time was arrived when the Parliament were
determined to do theirs. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
concluded by moving, " That thii House has observed with deep
regret, that nothing has been effected by the Legislatures of his
Majesty's Colonies in the West Indies, in compliance with the
declared wishes of his Majesty's Government, anti with the reso-
lutions of this House of the 15th of May, 1822, respecting the
treatment and condition of Slaves; and that this House, early in
the next Session of Parliament, will take into its most serious con-
sideration such measures as may appear necessary for giving effect
to its resolutions."

,Mr. W. HORTON said, that the resoluion of the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman only amounted to a pledge that the
House should take the subject into its serious consideration early in
the nest Session. But when they had already sent notice of the
determination of the Government to every one of the Colonial
Legislatures, it appeared to hint that such a resolution was
superfluous, unless it was intended as a censure upon the course
which the House had previously sanctioned.---(Hear, hear.)—
The Honourable and Learned Gentleman had stated the ques-
tion as if it had been said by him (Mr. IL) that what 'had been
done by the Legislative Assemblies was an effectual compliance
with the Trinidad Order in Connell. He had said nothing
of the kind. It was asserted on . the other side that those
bodies, actuated by a contumacious stubbornness, bad done no-
thing ; and he, in answer, had maintained that upon many points
they had followed the recommendations of the Government, and
although they certainly had not upon others, yet that their re-
fusal did not amount to a contumacious resistance. It was clear
that their great unwillingness to meet the wishes of the House
arose front fears regarding their personal property and personal
safety. Therefore, when it was attempted to be charged upon
them that they refused compliance front an abstract love of slavery,
he felt bound to declare his opinion that much of the prevailing
opposition was bottomed upon apprehensions of that nature: The
prudent course wee to convince the West India proprietors that
their alarms were groundless; and as those opinions gained ground
in the West Indies, he was convinced their objections would
disappear. The Honourable Gentleman then vindicated the Tri-
nidad Order in Council, maintaining that its effect would be
'greatly to raise the condition of, the slave, and that the means it
recommended for attaining that object were the most eligible of
any that could be suggested. He alluded' to the case of Demerara,
where the effect of the measures taken. by Lord Bathurst had
already procured Acts of the Legislature for carrying the pro-
visions of. the Trinidad Order into full effect. Ile ap-
pealed to the opinion of the Duke of Manchester upon the
Act for abolishing Sunday Markets, which contradicted the
assertion of the Hon. and Learned Membee, that nothing had been
done to relieve the ecindition of the Slave in Jamaica. Another
of their stets provided, that a portion of the time of the Clergy
should be employed on Sundays in giving religious instruction to
the Negroes. The lion. and Learned Gentleman had ascribed
the respect which the Colonists paid to the Bishop and Clergy, to
their dread of Sectarisrn. He did not mean to undervalue the
services' of the Missionaries who had done so much for spreading
the Christian religion, but it was evident that the feeling of the ,
Colonisti towards them arose front their net being considered
proper teachers for the Slaves, • He thought himself, that Clergy
men of the Establishment were much better fitted for, the teak,
and that it was much to to the credit of- tbe inhabitants of Ja-
maica, that they had been so well received. He contended,
, that from the speeches delivered in the House of Assembly,
it was clear the opposition arose from a fear that the rights
of property would be invaded, and not from the mere love
of Slavery. The course which the' government were punn-
ing was therefore best calculated- to enlighten them upon that
subject, and to lead to a gradual relaxation of. that obstinacy
which be allowed to have existed in an unwarrantable degree.
The Hon. Gentleman went on to observe, that when be heard
Isis Learned Friend referring to repetitions of Acts of Parlia-
ment of a prior date, it was 'his moat decided opinion that this
House was as much responsible for these Acts as the Colonial
Legislature was. These Acts necessarily received the sanction of
the Crown, they were before both Houses of Parliament, and he
was satisfied no person would venture to say that Parliament was
not cognizant of 'all the terms of the Acts he had alluded to. He
(Mr. W. Horton) thought the address on the part of the Hon..
Gentleman unnecessary, because its object was for the House to
review that system which must of necessity he reviewed when
other Bills came before the consideration of the House, which had
been recommended to the Colonial Legislature -for their adoption.
He was sorry to have been obliged to enter into a detail of this
question ; but as the Hon. Gentleman bad. prefaced hissspeech by
a detail—if he (Mr. IL) was not allowed to go into a detail--he
should be unable to give the necessary explanation.—(Hear!)...-
He thought-the Government had shown the principles on which
they had acted, and the measures they had adopted had been duly
and fairly laid before the Hostile ancLthe public at large, over and
over again: He could say personally that he had always felt him-
self hound to abide by those measures, and be would venture to
say he had never uttered a single sentiment in any way at variance
with them. He hoped his Hon. and Learned Friend would abstain
from mentioning matters which might in acme degree operate to
his prejudice out of doors.
Mr. BROUGHAM explained.
Dr. LUSHlNGTON'observed, if he might judge from what
had occurred in another place, there were sonte of his Majesty's
Ministers who had expressed a different opinion from that which
had hee.n akeived and acted upon in this House.—(Hear, hear.)
—The opinion which he referred to, coming from the lips of a
Noble Lord, had strengtbed the Colonists in their resistance,
and had tended to protract to a lengthened period the • applica-
tion of those measures which it was the wish of the Govern-
ment should be carried into effect. He was not referring to an
opinion which might be said to have become antiquated, but
it was en opinion delivered within two months from the present
time by a Noble and Learned Lord, who had taken an oppor-
tunity in another place purposely to state, . in direct and po-
sitive terms, his entire. dissent from the very opinion which
bad been expeeeeea by' the flight Honourable Secretary for
Foreign Affairs.
The Right Honourable Gentleman had stated
that the spirit of the British Conititution was not in its principle
hostile tb elaverys's And also when-he (Mr. Canning) found the
system of,stlayssey
sfttiOeturedni ,en" caontlragehe • hoomighi add, under
do and almost t-
toted by the
'Britting
id,co'n

the authority of so great and learned a personage as Lord Somers,
he should hesitate a long while before be ventured to say that
slavery was contrary to the British Constitution.--(Hear, bear,
heai.)—He'would only ask, whether sentiments like these were
not calculated to uphold the colonists in their contumacious. oppo-
sition, and whether they were Jiot calculated to defeat the men
-
cures proposed by his Hon Fricuds. Until it had been-acknow-
ledged on, all hands that the Slave Trade, was a violation of every
principle of justice and morality, nothing etTettnally could ever be
done ; but the West Indians, in order to make ~good their title to
protection from the House,: must submit-to -.those measures laid
down by the House. He knew not how it could be contended
that means might not he extended in bringing up the children of.
the West Indian slaves in such a way as to fit thein for that state"
of freedom which the rest of his Majesty's subjects enjoyed. To
fall short of these measures,,, would be to fall short of the measures
of justice, and he thought every sacrifice should be made which in
justice to the Proprietors of the West India trade, could fairly be
granted.
Mr. BERNAL said,' without having read the speech alluded
to by his Hon. Friend, he believed the argument of the Noble
Lord had been to defend the right of property, which he conceived
the West Indians to have in the Colonies. His Hon. Friend had
attempted to assign t reason for' the Jamaica Assembly not going
along with the House in the measures they had adopted. The
fact %via', the West Indians were afraid of- the Parliament of Eng.
land denying their right to the property they held, and which
their ancestors had held for so long a period. Up to the year
1775, slavery was tolerated in Scotland: At this period a statute
of Parliament, he believed the 15th of George the Third, was is-
sued, which absolved from a complete state of bondage the col-
liers and salt-workers of that part of the kingdom. When be
mentioned this case, be trusted he would not be looked upon as
unreasonable when he asked for time to deliberate on the question
of Emancipation. He would appeal to the House if, during the
last 15 or 17 years, the bodily and mental state of the Slaves was not
improved? and also if the opinions of the Slave Proprietors had
not undergone a complete change? Slaves were not allowed
to work on Sundays by a positive law enacted for that purpose;
and if any master or agent set his slave to work on a Sunday, he
could he punished by the law. He was also aware that in many
instances Slaves were possessed of sums of money from ten to one
hundred pounds, with good furniture in their houses, and from a
strange feudal fancy even they had
.slaves. It was very easy for
Hon. Members, either in or out of the ,House, who had not wives
and families to support by their estates in the Colonies, to cry
down the whole system, hut he hoped that the Colonists would
not be deprived at once of their only support•(in many instances)
by any dispensation of Parliament, under whose sanction they had
embarked their property. He was ander no necessity of.making
use of any unfair arguments when he called upon the British Par-
liament to mete out to him, and other West Indian Proprietors, that
portion of justice which they never had refused to any applicant
who came with any claim upon them, and under this head be was
sure the West India proprietors came.--(Cheers.)
Mr. C. R. ELLIS regretted exceedingly the reception which
the recommendations of Parliament had experienced. He was of
opinion that religious instruction was one of the first things to be
attenikd to, since it was a matter of much importance in the plan
proposed for the amelioration of the Slaves.
Mr. BUTTERWORTII spoke for seine time amidst loud cries
of " Question."

Mr. DENMAN followed in support of the motion, quoting the
opinions of Mr. Fox, Mr. Sheridan, and Mr. Secretary Canning
to show that Slavery was repugnant to the spirit of the Christian
religion, and of the British Constitution.
Mr. CANNING.—" The Hon. and Learned Gentleman, Sir,

has brought the question which is now before the House pre-
cisely to that point at which I am desirous of meeting it;—that
point upon which the House is now called, by its vote, to decide,
whether the resolution proposed for its adoption may be useful for
the purposes which, I am bound to assume, are the objects of
that resolution. Sir, that resolution contains some propositions;
to which, as abstract propositions, I have no difficulty (with some
modification indeed,) in subscribing. But the particular ques-
tion for the House to determine, on the present occasion, I take
to bs—whether the passing of any such resolution as this be ne-
cessary or useful ? and if it be neither necessary nor useful, whe-
ther it may not he rather detrimental than beneficial to the
general question upon which: the House has already expressed
its feeling ? In addressing myself to the question, I must
lay out of the account much—or indeed the greater part—
of the speech of one Honourable and Learned Gentleman,
because, as I think, it has been already quite determined by
the House, by the country, and the Government, to proceed
in this great measure as far as possible by topics of conciliation
and recernmendation; while the whole of the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman's speech was calculated rather for a course of force and
terror than any thing else. That speech, therefore, I must leave
out of the question as entirely dissonant from the whole tone and
temper in which the discussion of this matter has been hitherto
conducted from first to last ; and as entirely dissonant from the
sensible, detailed, and moderate speech in which this debate had
been introduced.—(Hear, 'hear.)—l must assume, ‘Sir, that the
resolutions passed by this House in May 1823, contain 'the whole
of the code which Parliament have agreed to take' for their guid-
ance in this business ; and I must also assume (the position I
have just stated not having-been contradicted), that the seve-
ral measures which the Government have founded on those
resolutions have been admitted to have been conceived
in the spirit of those resolutions, and to have been' flamed
accordingly. If, Sir, there be those who may think that
a different course from that which we have so pursued ought to
have been adopted ; if there be 'those who may be even disposed
to go buck to the year 1807, as thinking that the .abolition of all
slavery in the West Indies ought to have been then enforced by
an Act of Parliament, I have really only to say to them that they
come too late into the field; that Parliament has already come to
its determination, and formed its decision on that subject--
(Cheere.)—l can only remind them, and say, that Parliament has
already pronounced, in a voice not to be misunderstood, that it
would not by, an immediate act 'proceed to compel the emancipa-
tion of slaves in the West Indies, but that it look, to that event
as a result which will be produced by the more conciliating
and moderate course it has already adopted ;--that it
will not be diverted from that course, except by a degree
of resistant* amounting to contumacy, and which it does
not at present contemplate; and that. we may 'still hope that we
shall not be drawn to that sort of alternative which a de.
parture from this kind of course supposes.—(Cheers.)—Well,
then, Sir, as to those again who think that this most import-
ant' question, involving, as it confessedly does, so nearly the
lives, the interests, and the property of so many of our fel-
low subjects, is to he determined on the abstract
proposition—' That man cannot be made the property
of man.' I must take the liberty of relegating them to the
schools,, and of telling them that they do not deal with this grave
and extensive question as Members of the British Parliament, or
as members of any established society.—(Loud cheers.)-_I must
tell them, Sir, that the practical adoption of their speculative no-
tions, on so grave and weighty a subject as this, would leave our
West India possessions to a state of ravage and desolation, which
I think those Hon. Gentlemen themselves would he but little pre-
pared to expect. The Learned Civilian has made a reference to
a former debate, in which lie has quoted a passage of a speech- of
mine, wherein I stated ' that the spirit of the British Constitu-
. tion was, in its principle, hostile to any modification of slavery ;'
this reference compels me to set myself right with the House.
The Learned Civilian has read the extract from the speech, but
be has omitted to give the context from which it is torn. The
Hon. Member for Weymouth had on that occasion prefaced his
resolution with the declaration that the state of slavery %Sure-
pugnant to the principles of the British Constitution, and of the
Christian religion.' Did .1, on that occasiorie subscribe to that
'proposition ? Could the sentence that I then used be taken to be
so employed? In' order that the House should rightly under.-
stand what I did say, I will read that part of the speech in which
the sentence is included.
"'The Hon. Gentleman (it is the lion. Member for Weymouth
to whom I alluding) begins his Resolution with a recital
' which I confess greatly embarrasses me : he says, that the state
of slavery is repugnant to the principles of, the British Constitu-
' tion, and of the Christian religion.' God forbid that he who ven-
tures to object to this statement should therefore be held to assert
a contradiction to' it ! • I do not say that the state of slavery is
consonant to the principles of the British Constitution ; still lees
I do I say that the state of slavery is consonant to the principles of
. the Christian religion.
positions myself, nevertheless, I must say, that in my opiuion the
e statementesociety
u unknown
wt true:
ei
n:
Put tiniugh I do not advance these pro-
propositions of the Hon. Gentleman are not practically true. le
the lion. Gentleman means that the British Constitution does
not admit of slavery in that part of the British dominiona where
fullof pollaayv,eruyn:laoustta)te:yofhaois
but it makes 'nothing for his object. If, however, the
Member is to be understood to maintain that the British Conet.i-
tution has not tolerated for years, nay more, for centuries, in the
ctholeonCoiesn.stitthiitieoznisistenince
the mother Country—that is a position which is altogether with-
out foundation, and positively and practically untrue. In any
opinion, when a proposition is submitted to this House for the
purpose of inducing the House to act upon it, care should be
taken not to confound, as 1 think is done in this 'Resolution, what
! is morally true with what is historically fillet?. Undoubtedly, the
spirit of,the ;British Constitution is, in its principle, hostile to any
modification of slavery.
Butt as uudoubteelly, theßritish Parlia`

meat has for ages tolerated, sanctioned, protected, and even encou-
raged a system of colonial establishment of which it well knew
slavery to be the foundation.'
" Now, Sir, God forbid that he who should venture to oppose
this proposition, should therefore be held to- maintain a contra-
dictism of it. I do not say that slavery is sanctioned by the
spirit of the Christian religion ; and still less-do I say that it is
enjoined by the principles of the British Constitution. But,
although I do not advance that proposition in opposition to his,
still Ido say that his proposition it not practically true. If the
Hon and Learned Gentleman means to say that, the British Con-
stitution is not favourable to the spirit of slavery, I can admit the
truth- of his preposition ; but it makes nothing for his argument.
It Ise means to say that the British Conititutioh has not for years .
tolerated slavery in its Colonies, then, in my opinion, his propos
sition is, positively and practically untrue. ' 'Care, Sir, ought to
he taken, in touching questions of this peculiar nature, not to
mingle and confound that which being morally true, becomes his-
torically false. Undoubtedly the constitution of this country doe'
not sanction the practice or principle of slavery. But the Par-
liament of this country has protected, fostered; and encouraged—
(Cheers.)--establishments, whose main support, it well knew,
was derived from slavery.—(Cheers.)—Guarded, then, Sir, ea far
declaration on this subject was at the beginning, guarded
as it was at the end, and coupled with something ie •
another place, of which I profess I do not see the peso.
tics! bearing, and of which I know nothing but what
the assertion of the Honourable and •Learned Gentlemsa-
conveys to me, I do think that be has somewhat unfairly
represented my sentiments. The distinction I now wish to press
upon the attention of the House, is the same as I have always en-
deavoured to maintain. I have before said, that, theoretically
true as it may be, that the spirit of slavery is repugnant to the
spirit of the British Constitution ; yet this country, blessed
though she bas been with a free Constitution herself, has encou-
raged the practice, however alien to her institutions; and this too,
be it remembered, when her Councils were guided by men,' 61
acknowledged and boasted friends of liberty—at a time, Pella?*
when her freedom had not attained that moral maturity which' it
now exhibited, or when, perhaps, she was in want of thole light,
which have since buret in full effulgence upon the world.' Sat
still, Sir, so it is, that this country, notwithstanding her free Coo-
stitution, did found, foster, and encourage -a system of which, not
only was Slavery the basis, but which required an annual Mtn
of the black Stygian stream of slavery as necessary to its nutrie
ment• and sustentatien.—(Cheers.)_Thee, Sir, these having
been the sentiments recorded by me on former occasions, how
to
it possible that I could have taken the course in emulous
attempted to be imposed
upon me by the Honourable
Learned Gentleman opposite? But there was another prolgs"
and
.tion put forth by the Hon. Member for Weymouth, au the *err •
sion to which I have alluded, viz.—that the state of slave"' u
not consistent with the principles of .the Christian religion'
To this; Sir, I objected ; not, certainly, meaning thereby to de-
grade the Christian religion antolerant of slavery. or to cat soy
imputation upon it, but meaning to free this country from the see
ressity which would result from the adoption of such a doctrine'"'
of proceeding without thought or hesitation to an immedistelbo-
lition of practice, not in any degree, or to the extent Mefeir
of a certain modification, but the whole length of extirpation st
once.—(Hear, hear.)--What I meant to deny in the Hon. Metrr,
bears proposition was, that the Christian religion and slavere
Isseuivil"
not be in existence together ; and I say that the reverse 1
fact, for that they have co-existed from the very dawn of Chr,
tianity up to the present day. Neither, therefore, Sir, ""I
forced to admit that it is a principle of the Christian religion 1°
sanction slavery. Its leading principle, Sir, is seen in the WO
it has always been found to pursue, adapting itself to the eitenie
stances of the place and time in • which it was seeking to ins
progress ; at the s,ame time mounting the throne of the Ctesane 0.
comforting the captive in his cell e and, while Christianity W°'
preaching in the street,' of Rome, serri cruciantur was theortliasbir
law of the Forum.—(Cheers.)—Then, Sir, it is not true that .
existence of this religion prrecribes the extinction of slavery.
an unsparing band, from whose fierce persecution there
be no refuge. It is not true that it ordains its extirearol.;(,
any other means than those which are consonant with the OD",
just, and impartial spirit of the British Constitution, .and
of slavery
which pursues a course of deliberate proceeding, es the .
mode of getting rid of an acknowledged evil. The cause
dered progression. Is there any thing then,
I have always maintained as requisite end PT.Pe,'
but by the aid of measures qualified by a deliberate and wee :no
laid down, to inculpate the spirit of Christianity or the prin!tios
of the British Constitution ? and if I have made it aPPnreTeese
the British Constitution, the British Government, and the eseetess'.
Parliament, have for a long series of years fostered thilatteles.ese
upon which we all now look with abhorrence, what b the
inference it that we are to continue to foster and
not
the
false principles of our ancestors ? No, Sir, that is what
maintain; but I do maintain that we, having all concurroruell.l u
.guilt of rearing and fostering the evil, are not to turn.
Sir,
the Planters alone, and say You shall suffer all the peeal.tY•ec of ths
hear, bear !)--you, alone II
, she sustain the pain and inj y.i
in what I 1! he
the moral pest' elite
severance, while we determine to get rid of t
banished
you, whom we now point out as the spotted lepers, shall be , ,t
forth from soriety, 'and hurled to utter ruin for that Isoi
Cheers)
which we fully participated and encouraged Yen'te—treee With
—On the contrary, Sir, I propose that l
we
P Tht is
a more tender hand and more deliberate cotlose •, „
ee and
the course. upon which the House has already ee
r ° “srhether
the question for decision, therefore, this night .
ng' that tore
the Resolution now offered for adoption is conceived 1, 0,004
Aerate spirit, and bears that stamp of deliberation, ee°!'c se
not give it the effect of changing the course in which_ they
the
rouly proceeded, and precipitate.the House at once hei,r_u"eures
views it had hitherto acted upon. In order to decide
tion, let us look where we now stood. . The Resolution of ;
1823, form the ground upon which we have hitherto po,ct7.
and we have done so with a more than usual quantity.
~fect4
country.
probation of the ls there, then, reason to
oe'
therwill
the Government have acted upon these Resolution! ono me
than in the most perfect sincerity of spirit ; and is
if the
that the Government hive avowed their detertninatew:to,pee
Colonies should evince a contumacious resistance, t eesellese
Parliament for aid to enforce their introduction:, kif 0.
hear, hear!)—lf then, these two propositions be te pares,
have acted with sincerity in the views sanctioned 'la iee ei'
ment—and if we have not departed from the derlarotecreo
our determination to come to Parliament for aid
i!'s du not
ry, wherefore now adopt a Resolution, which, ia ' _emery,
fully support the views of Government, must, of tle
perplex them ?Le
We have 'already h.ad, the course
olf ave
Smion, one or two motions' on the eubject. rrn ~a,ly felt
I moved an amendment, expre.eiVe of the disgust eeteue wee
at some of the scenes brought under the notice of ul'e „est.
on the occasion ; and declaeing anew that we bad on) :gel
sir reason to adhere to the Resolution of the nneee ee to
to in May, 1523. If, therefore, this Resolution even' toe'
than a renewal of our former deelarations, it would atomet7eepees
thing. But, in fact, it is to such thing. In the first telsessl . To
sea regret at the proceedings of the 'West Lichen Lari at?_sold0
this part of it I earl Live no objection, further than that it
call, se-
a waste of time to record over again • what we have re,•edeee
corded ; and, as to the eccond part of the resolution,lll.oreed
the House to follow up thia declaration with ineasoro c eeether
to give effest to it on the ensuing Session, to that I have Jeer'
,and a different objection. I think to record such I, Sir,
urination , would be productive of positive mischief. „,esibir
do not look to the six or eight months which losY,teliii, airy
intervene between the preeent and ensuing Sessi(m,w o't
feeling of despair that the West Indian. Governs' eestio°'
adopt some measures in the spirit of, the reeonyne de ttrio
sent out' to then, ; and I think their disposition ow 01114
waled be weakened by a pledge of this nature. IV A lib'
be the effect of it on their minds? They would Have eisseee
to argue that we knew nut our own minds' that,,
tented with the course we had already taken, we ,
pledged to resort to some other isle of legitastl; ' Hoes
whatever might have been the views of Goverereenteteeeerf beY
of Commons had stepped in and changed them of 70ia
pledging it to a slew mode of proceeding. In this wee. I vete
Jamaica Legielature have a right to argue,
.aed so, t, it, 1°
member of it, should I 'segue. Shouhl we then, be lit,
but
el
abandon at on.:e those ex stations which it pot
must have, and which the West Indian Legislator' ;les, 'lief,
so absurd and impolitic, to give it no worse a. moral ePite etisee"
entirely dissppoint, by
m signilying to them that we are
nae odes°
with our own ime, road warning them thereby to w,eirar !
what farther sr ps .ve should he disposed to take 0, me se
An lion. Friend of mine, Sir, who has done hiwoes
credit to-night le, his speceh, has asked me wbetie,rnidati
understand that the Order iu Council repecting T!' eeeee
prised the whole of the eystem GOVenlillellt mean_eolool;.
te.,seree
My answer is:, that so far Ili the resolution of this It_ onitt:
to Government the course they are to pestle, fes!„,eereles!,e,
Council in queetion does cotripris,e the intentions Winer to
If the Colonial Legislatures act in a Lena/tile Innni__
a des re
spirit of that order, not acting as: though with
'f o keep the word of promise to the eat
obit
And break it to the hope;' lest° I
meselY 'll tele"
if they ehouhl procceel tey substantial and not „ego
acts, with a full determination to iolopt the systernnes'seviu
I am convinced, Sir, thatahe is
Parlieme te,, test 11
eegr,).--elt is the spirit of the wo,—
.

ennst look to.—(Hear, hear.)—.-But I agree with my Honourable
Vrend that the clause for compulsory manumission of slaves is
-that to which we must mainly look. All the rest goes in mi-
tigation of the system ; but this clause is certainly a vital part of
the system. The great difference between the plans of his Ma-
jesty's Ministers and those Hon. Gentlemen who are desirous of a
wore rapid progressie, that they risk the desired end to arrive at
a precipitate Conclusion ; Whereas we and others wish to retard a
little the attainment of the object, in order that we may arrive
there with a greater assurance of safety. I agree also, Sir, in
many particulars with an Honourable Gentleman opposite, who
spoke 'with so much good sense on the subject ; but I differ
widely -from him on the subject of compensation. I think
nothing can be more monstrous than to admit a
principle of compensation in the promotion of measures
which .all admit to be measures of amelioration ; and which all.
who look upon moral improvement as beneficial must be aware
will eventually create a ten-fold improvement in the value of pro-
perty. I admit, at the same time, that the principle of compul-
sory rtuinumieeion is one of force, and that the only remedy is in
the price which the slave is required to pay to his lord—and here:
is thatretnedy provided.—(Hear, hear.)—Although the discus-
sion upon this question has been unusually long, and many foreign
topics have been introduced ; I am not aware of any other prac-
Ilcal points beyond those I have already touched upon, calling
for 1117 attention. Nor at this late hour would it be right
for me to detain the House, beyond the precise limits
of the question. I hope, however, that li. have not
failed to stow; that however the dictates of humanity,
the principles of the Christian Religion, and the spirit of
the British Constitution may repudiate slavery, and hold it in
the detestation it merits ; there is nothing in that, fact to call
upoa us to abolish at once the system, at the risk of vedette
geringthe safety of those concerned, or doing wrong to those
who; interests are involved.—(Cheers.)—l hope that I have
also shown that Government is sincere in its endeavour to carry
late effect the wishes of Parliament ; and that it is only because
we do mot like any thing Which has the appearance of menace that
We do not repeat our determination that if, contrary to our hope,
we should be met by the Colonies with contumacious opposition,
we shall come to Parliament for aid to effect those changes which
are not dissonant from the spirit of the British Constitution, and
which Parliament will be justified in granting the power to terry
into execution, as the production of a wholesome and holy deter-
initiation on its part"--(Loud cheers.)
Sir T. ACLAND rose amidst loud cries of " Question." He
al,s,vved that he coueitLrA the resolution of the Hon. Member
far Winchelsea as likely to retard the good effects which were
"Petted to result from the resolution of the 15th May, 1823.
Nor did he w'sa to negative the resolution proposed by the Hon.
awl. Learned Gentliman ; and he, therefore, to get out of the
dilemma in which' he was placed with regard to the vote which
he must give, should move the previous question,
Mr. BROUGHAM replied.—The Right lion. Gentleman re-
*Wei him by his course of reasoning, of that sort of argument
in logic by which one escaped from the cause, and directed ate
tntion to what co-existed. Slavery, though it co-existed with
Christianity, was opposed to its spirit, and existed in spite of it.
It was indeed Ail observation of Lord Thurlow, but one quite
enworthy of l's understanding, that not a word occurred in
Scripture whi:h militated against slavery. It was equally
adverse to ih,t spirit of the British Conatituticn, and it
argued great ignorance of history to attribute the treaty,
which succeeded the great alliance war, to Lord Somers, or
the Whigs of his time. That treaty was, in fact, perpetrated
by a Tory Administration, towards the close of Queen Anne's
,rAgn. It was not his intention, at that late hour, to trespass
longer on the time of the House. The Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Canning) had totally mistaken the purport of
the Resolution. It did not go to pledge the House to take any
measures next Session. If the Colonial Legislatures acted cordi-
ally in carrying into effect the intentions of Parliament, .it would
render it quite uunecessary to proceed to the adoption of any mea-
'urea. The blame of those evils that might arise from rejecting
this proposition, would juitly fall on those who voted against it.
---(Cheers.)
The Howie then divided--

For the Amendment
Against it -

• Majority against the original Resolution 62
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
Roust adjourned at Fooa o'CLocx this morning to Friday next.

SHIP NEWS.

[PROM LLOYDS.'
Deal., MAT 19.--Wind S.E.—Arrived and sailed for the
River, the'Royal George, Reynolds, from Bengal; New
.Phtenix,
White, Trinidad ; Juno, Starr, Alieant ; Britomart, White, from
Liverpool ; the Seger and Ajax turned to the westward on the ebb.
PoRTSMOUTH, MAY 19.—Wind S.S.E.—Sailed the Finsbury
transport for Hailfax.—llis Mnjesty's Ship Lively for Plymouth,
41'd MI Majesty's Ship Contest on a cruise.
PLyssouytt, MAy 18.—Wind S.W.--Arrived the Victoria
transport, from London for Quebec.

FALMOUTII, MAY 18. —Wind S.—Arrived the Sisters, Leverick
from Trapani, in 46 days. Sailed the Hope Packet, for Jamaica.
LIVICRPOOL, MAY 18.—Wind N.—Arrived the Africa, Hospar,
from Canapeachy ; Duke of York; from St. Michael's.

COWNB, MAY 19.—Arrived the Tartar, Geary, from Manilla.
The Crisis, Iran Dyke, from London to New York, was spoken
with on the 22d March, in lat. 43. 20. long. 37.40. out b 2 days.

NORTH AND SOUTH AMERICAN COFFEE-HOUSE.

(THIS DAY.)

A British ship from Jamaica, and a British schooner, were 1011 t
" the Florida Reef, March Ist. •
Putt,Anztettra, Arm'. 20.—Arrived the brig Hunter, Latour,
fthin Bordeaux; sailed Sd March, and spoke brig Finchett, from
v
Liv"Poni to New York ; out 60. days; on 14th March, lat. 45.
kng• 22. SO. ; fell in with the wreck of an English ship,
boarded her, and found her laden with lumber ; water logged, rud.;
der, fore and mizen masts gone, and abandoned; Penelope was
ularked on her ben, and appeared to have been built for the purpose
obf carrying timber. Part of three human skeletons were found on
oard, nitich front. appearance, the crew had subsisted on for
me time. Pieces of flesh secured with rope-yarns, long
ban*, and some articles of female dress were found, the whole
prek,ta •
ng a scene of (Estrella not to be described:

The Lottery now on Sale is the Last that will ever
be allowed in this Kingdom. The price of Tickets
and Shares will rise in a few days. There are Six
of £30,000. All to be drawn an "One Day.