The Sun.
London, England, 1826-03-11 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MA UCH 10.

BANKING SYSTEM OF SCOTLAND. •
The Duke of ATHOL preheated a petition from the Gull.
dry and Incorporations of Perth, praying their Lordships
not to make any alteration in the System of Banking in Scot•
land.

The Earl of GLASGOW presented a similar petition from
some town in Ayrshire.
Mr. EGERTOK and others, frim the Commons, brOtight up
several Private Rills.

ATBOIATiON OF SLAVERY. „ •
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition rropt
the Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Connell of the
rough of I.cistwithiel, Cornwall, praying for the Abolition of
Slavery.
Earl GREY presented similar petitions from Bradford, Co.
ningabury, and sevend other plades in Yorkshire; and also a
Cetition from the Ministers and Elders of the Presbyterian
hapel, Silver street, Newcastle, and from the Ministers and
Elders of several other Presbyterian Chapels in the North of
England.

Lord MELVILLE brought in a fill, in conipliance (as we
Understood his Lordship) With the prayer of a petition formerly
presented by him to their Lordships, for incorporating the
Clerks to the Writers to the Signet in Scotland, and enabling
them to make bre-laws. His Lordship stated, that he ander.
stood there would be some objection made to the Bill, and if
that were the case he should hot press it.
The LORD CHA NCELLOR thought this Society might
accomplish their object in the ordinary way.. He saw no good
reason for their coming before Parliament; and, at least, the
Bill should be allowed to stand over, that time Might he given
to inquire.
Lord MELVILLE, accordingly; moved the second reading
that day six months.
Several Private fills were forwarded one stage.
The disposal of Prisons' Bill was rosd ;i second ti-
journed till Monday.

IIOUSg OF COMMONS.
lIIISCELLANEOLTS.
CnAtroan, from the Treasury, presented various pa-
pers and accounts.—Laid on the table.
The New London Bridge Bill was read sliest time.
Leave wasziven to bring in a Bill for the Inipriivernent of
the Parish of St. George, llanever.sqUare.
Sir T. ACLAND presented a petition from the Weavers and
others engaged in the woollen trade of Colltimpton, in the
county of Devon, praying for a repeal of the Act which em—
powered Jostled to sakes the work of mama :mutters. This
Act he stated, had been productive of great inconvenience to the
workmen employed in the woollen trade ; for, on account of the
assessment of their work, to reimburse themselves for which
the manufacturers in many instances refused to undertake any
large order upon them unless the parish agreed t 0 pay them a
certain sum for employing; its poor in the execution of iheerder.
This sum was often refused, and the consequence was the dis.
charge of a great number of workmen, who were thus deprived
of the means of gaining a subsistence, althongh they wished to
work themselves.—Ordertil to be printed.
The Bill of the rEgis Fire Insurance Company was read a
second time and committed.
Sir E. KNA Te ['BULL presented a petition from the J 114*
tices of the Peace of the County of Kent, complaining of the
etpence incurred by them, In transmitting their accounts to the
House, and praying for same alteration.—Referred to the Coin.
mince on the County Hates.

- SLAVE R
Mr. MUNDAY presented a petition from the Inhabitant of
the Borough of Chesterfield, in the County of Derby, against
Slavery.—Ordered to be,printed.
The Hon. Me:MaElt also presented a Rim ilar petition from
a town in the County of Cornwall.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. HUME presented a petition to-the same effect, from the
Minister and Congregation of the %Yell-street Chapel,
Mary.
lebone.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. LITTLETON presented, three petitions from the
Noblemen, Freeholders, and others of the County of Staf-
ford,- and from two towns in the szune county, praying for a
gradual Abolition of Slmiery in the Colonies.—Ordered to be

Sir •ACLAND presented diietition from the Inhabitants
of the town of Chertsey. in Devonshire, against Slavery.
The Hon. 111 E3ln E it also presented two petitions to theism
effect, from Kingsbridge and Hampton Combe, in the same
County, and two other towns in the vicinity.—Ordered to be
printed.
Lord LOWTHER preSented a petition from the town of
Brougham
agninst Slaver—haid on the table.
SILK TRADE.
Mr. P. MOORE presented a petition front an individual of
the name of Henry Rose a silk manufacturer of the town of
Manchester, against the importation of Foreign Silk.—Ordered
to be printed.
CURRENCY.
Sir R. FERGUSON presented a Petition from the Royal
Burgh of Ayr, praying against any alteration in the Currency
of Scotland.-20rdered to be printed.
General 11UNTOOMS.1t presented a similar Petition
from the town of Beith..--Ordered to be printed.
Mr. HUME presented a Petition to the same effect, from
the Burgh of Perth...-144 on the table.
CORN LAWS.
Mr. HUME presented a Petition from the Inhabitants and
Freeholder* of Alontrose, praying the House not to delay any
longer the prayers of the numerous Petitions on this subject,
but to take into their serious consideration the Statute Laws on
the subject, anti to carefully revise them.
The Hon. MEMBER. also Presented, from the Weavers of
the town of' Dumblane; anti some othei town in Scotland, Pea,
titions to the same effect. lie trusted that the prayer of the
Petitioners would be attended to, ,trill that at soon it poisible.
—Laid on the table.
Mr. HEATIICODE was sorry to see so many petitious on
the subject of the Corn. Laws, beeattse he was convinced that
nothing could be done relative to them before next Svssion, On
account opfethtiteiopnrsesosf theo
poorfbusin people were to be received With
that must come under the con.
gidenttl°ll of the Mine this Sestion. fie certainly. thought
thethat
the same disposition of feeling as those of the higher clasi, but
he was convinced that when respectable men presented petitions
which chewed a vpirit of forcing the Mu" to attend to them,
and employed the invective which had hcen made use of tire

Teech of the lion. Member for Aberdeen., such as the Broad
ax, the Landlords' Act, the Job of Jobs, and many, other
equally irritating, they were Calculated to be prejudicial to their
own interests.

Sir 12. FERGUSON was surprised at the tenor of the lion.
Oentlenian's language; for his part, he did not see why any
body should be averse to hiving bread cheaper ; he thought
that if a protecting duty were impokd on Corn as well aS Silk,
the benefits to the poor class would be ensured.
Mr. II EATIICOTI: e'xplained.
MONCK said, that the great price of food in this
country prevented any thing like an equality of pride between
the Manufactitters of this Country and those of France. They
were obliged to give higher Wages on account of the price or
prOVisions in general, but more. specially of Wad. There
were many persons who were involuntarily obliged to become
burthen on the parish they belonged to, on account of the
lowness of their wages and the high price of bread, ,and thus
the present.state of the Corn Laws were the source of a great
cid to the country.
The petitiOn was brought up, after a feai words from Mr.
CUIL*Ert and Sir Joni NEWponT, the ITrter of whom said,
he believed the dlstresit in Ireland Was tube attributed at the
present day to the perniissiou granted to make use:of thu, Corp
warehoused till lately In this country. . .
The petititid purptlfted to be that of the parishioners of
Arbrciath. Another petition was presented by the Hen. Mem-
ber from the Conveners of Arbroath and 1)1'1111411e, praying,
foithe,reVision of the Corn Laws.—They were ordered to be
Printed.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

The CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEWIER moved that
the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply.
On the motion that the Srimmttu should leave the Chair,
Mr. MABERLY said, he felt it his duty in this stage to
ti raw the attention of the Hotiee to the abuses which had been
introduced intd the menagedient of our Finances. His observa-
tions in the first instance should apply to the mismanagement
Of the Funded Debt of this country ; and he should in the next
Place make some remark* tin . the mismanagement of the Un-
funded Debt, both of which had, hi his optnion, materially in.
lured the state of public credit And first, as to Exchequer
ins i He begged those Hon. entlemen who came down
nightly to vote so readily 30 or 4 millions of Exchequer .Bills,
to consider what sort of security these Exchequer Bills were,they
were bills not always payable on demand, but very -nearly so;
oftentlmes payable on demand by. adverdeement from the Ex-
chequer Office. They were securities fora debt long since con.
tracted. The Hon. Membet here took a review of the amount
of' Exchequer Bills which might have been received in the dif.
ferent quarters of the last year for revenue, which averaged
from four to seven millions, although thirty millions of Exdhe-
quef Bills were then due and outstanding. lie contended there
had been a great over issue of this sort of security. In Novem.
ber these Exchequer Bills were at a discount of 110 e. This
Owned Government ; the Bank kingly consented to go into
the money market, and buy these securities in, which raised them
to par. Government too had consented to raise the interest on
them, to keep up their nominal price ; but on Feb. 14, they were
again as low 113 % I N. discount, and the Bank again felt it a duty
to purchase largely, which again brought them to par. Ilea
these large stints in Exchequer Bills come in quartirly, as Re.
venue, which they would have done but for the kind Interferer), e
of the Bank in two instances, the Right lion. Gent. would not
have had any money wherewith to pay the dividends or interest
of the Debt, and he would have been-obliged to !lain asked an ;
advance of Exchequer Bills, giving the Bank as u guarantee, a
promise to grant the Bank a bill fat suspending their Cash
Payments in case there were a run upon it. In what a serious
situation would this country be in this condition of idfairs, if
the Rtissian army were to march into Turkey, which was not at
all improbable, and such= event must necessarily turn the ex-
changes against this country. The danger of the Exchequer Bills
being so heavy in the market was, that though they were itecuri-
ties at a lowrate of interest, still they were al wars demandable
when the holders chose, anti might involve us in very consider.
able difficulty if the holders pressed for payment of them at an
ineonvent time. There had been a fine opportunity in his mind ,
lost for the reduction of the amount of this sort of security when
the Stocks had rapidly risen from 00 to 95, Why lied not the
Bight Hop. Gentleman embraced a aisle so very favourable
for the puhlic ? It had been said, to be sure, that by not doing ,
so, he had saved 300,000/. yearly interest,: bee this wail more
then equipoised by the loss of eight millions of Stock on that
transaction only: In the next place lie must observe, that in.
Stead of appropnating the whole of the Sinking Fund, as had
been done, to the reduction of the Funded Debt, it would be
much better to apply it to the reddetion of the Unfuntfed Debt.
On Allis branch of tinanee he thought that a strong case (vas
made out to prove that the Right Honourable Gentleman
had not conducted the public monied transactions of the
etitintfir Judiciously. 'or these reasons he should take the li-
berty of proposing a train of resolutions which would throw,
first an historical light on the situation of the money relating
of this country ; and, secondly, point out sortie of the simpler
and more obvious means &remedy fig the present evile oh the
System. The Hon. Member here read over hie remolutiotis,
Which in substance were as follow,—That it appeared to the'!
House, front returns anti papers laid before it, that op the Oth I
of January, 1820, the mutt:Hied debt of the country Amounted
to 37,11d1, Mi. ; that from different causes these securities in
Exchequer Bils fell on the 20th of Decenther to a discount of
ON. per cent.; film which depression it was relieved by the
measure adopted by the Bank of England of purchasing Ex.
elietpier Bills in the Market, which raised these securities to
poi and yet, notwithstanding this remedial measure for the
absorption of Exchequer Bills, and the increased interest al.
]owed by Government on them to keep up their price, they be-
cattie again, on the 14th of February, at a discount of 21 shile
lings, owing to the heavy advances Which it was known the
ellank had made to Government and on annuities, beside the
advance of three millions to pay the dissentient holders of four
per cent. stock, had disabled and emberraeeed the Bank so
much, that had these Exchequer'
havelilcheqtbreereißl,ililna
thbleeewnaryctourrnpeatylnoienn(tio..t.
veromoot, as they might
Revenue. Government would not have had the means to pay the
dividends, nor could the Bank safely have advanced Govern- '
Meru money on an issue of Exchequer Bills to enable Ministers
to pay the dividend»; and, finally, that it app Aired highly ex-
peilleat to the House, under the circutnstencee, to reduce the
tinfiduled Debt within mach smaller limits, than hitherto hid
limited the issue, of that species of security. In addition to
his obeeetion to the conduct of' the Right Honourable Gentle-
man and his Colleague?' on this particular head, he had to
charge the Right Honourable Gentleman with shutting his
eyes to the obvious inconveniences and mismanagement
which were'known to be for some time existing in our linen-
dal transactions. He alluded to the project for the mainte.
nance of a cleat Sinking Fund of five millions applicable to
the reduction of the Funded Debt, proposed by a Noble Lord
in 1822, and yet all this profession • was followed in less than
fourteen days alter a loan under the mime of the, Dead
Weight to the amount of seventy-four minions, nhieh %VHS
proposed and immedietely carried. Of this loan the Beak
purchased thirteen millioni, having already made advances on
u to the amount of eight millions. Now, if the Bank, loaded
as it now was. were disposed to ease itself' end sell this debt,
what would be the consequence P Ile denied the .11enk could
convert this* lean into money if Pressed. L;eirteinly it could
not, perticularly if the exChangee were againmt this country ;
or if tt attempted to do eo. it mnet be done at .nor molts sacri-
fices. In feet, these ExChequer bilk were no longer a con-
eertible smithy, end yet the Bank continued to advance to
Government to the extent of above twenty-five minions. It
was thence clear. that hampered and engaged es the Bank was,
it could never convert theee securities into money, in time to
save Itself and preeerve its credits. /V those ()kne. reasons,
he should strenuously advise the Ri 3,tieiht
,pl,
(lull,
nit tl;?cejilitipirailliteylebiirlteclfleilooeifnwhttellirieldee.
mmi.tenigtioni:taipetoaeithhaetr.Ailhowaheiccilimcnrtestiotertiti
itiii,)l, Debt, rti're°e‘‘,74l6aujellele,Y4)brL3yr:l(t'eltiiiilY; Statenlltoken.tt e rtkit. Cftion Thism"l 'get
I":4ecilli:nexi cdl; e(I, j.i,eru,e4
there
Office cwielora:tvlateil
National Debt Office, by which it would he found that, con-
„bt,:eia Ntr,ll,l:l:,ittlitilhnegocaltlulai terugeeri:;::Ll ir,4y22iitiNii,..;:iiii4,l%i,i.*ltilitht.i: olaldrlttelon'nnuittionsrtillciiiiinctiitatit
ertlijig.cy,),ei:
t,i,leo;3l:,,alli,iz,t,t.ndic,eir,ineti:tit:leosritat.cenatidt,i;
we Q, we 1 la g 1 bt daily in consequeeee tel thie,apoieireriets.
millions
e)tioft ,1:,1s i ae.oeYtfiotitglilli the fitiltil:te;.:billet:tilliirtlel:ll:7ll,4iltietie.t,,
hw,ehi
it a wasno iow
doubt,ie IL
trout
eft
li e fli)ebtlfc lii
tul,ltt toleleetiltkpc'erflic;!sn,gwilini(it*bet lilijeTiltesendllo°lvbeerini3g'tiltel of
fitege e ,rem
an ~,,..kloo or their riper ax Imitate bankers. What, he
tZuriednaii Like'hdiLie:iiiilnib4fnfilEyeti
lel
ti
(.! tilliSet;tialliflirrei ht?
ainlla°.inemie:l:l ientnioillibleileoUrn,a:•:eitrtlitiit,tiwoil_ti,Bl:
time;
it mulit be At A greet sacrifice. On this head he was satisfied
the Right flan. iiendeman hall ntit the concurrence of the very '

intelligent asmietants and coadjutors Whom he had associatel.
with him in office, and he therefore with the more confidence
implored him to, turn round, fund the debt which writ; now
floating, add Bins leave the Government and the Bank id
future imiihackled, tio that come what might, both should be
free and prepared co.operate for the public sefety. The.
Hon. !Benier el-included by inorintr it titbendrifentjaha
Resolution which he had previously read in the former part of
his *!leech. .
Mr. BERRI cs Was happy tti say ho should feel it unne-
cessary, in reviewing the arguments of the Honourable Gen:
denten, to consume much of the time of the Mese. He
.would first advert to that point of his lime. Friend's Speech
on which he laid the greatest totem, the favourite point of his
Hon. Friend. They were accused of iharcuracy,of cenfueimi,
of complexity, and more than al! or want of fidelity in the pnb=
lie accounts. Ile believed he should be able to sliew that all
the confusion was in the mind of the lion. Gentleman. He had.
never seen greeter confusion ethibited in •hat flouSe.—Thc
paper for Which he had moved had, fortunately for hini, not yet
been printed, or even from that paper he could have demon=,
riveted that the Hon. Gentlemen was entirely in error. The
intention of Friend tavas to institute a comparison bee
t wean the amount of the public debt, in the first and the last of tt
series of years, adding to last yeeee amount the calculated Ira»
lue of a terminable annuity of 2,800004 payable to the Bank
Of England, on account of the military half pay and pensions.
If lie had been Aware ut the time of moving tar that paper, of
the fallacy to Which it would lead, he would have moved for
other papers tin' the purpose of explaining it. 'the concldsion
of his lion. Friend was, that between the years IWO and 18213,
an increase had abtually taken place in the public debt, and not
only so, but that the difilience was town amount so enoranottei
that every person must know his conclusion to be erroneous..ee
lie had refrained from moving for such papers, because he ton 2
tided in the good sense and inforination of his Hon. Friend td
protect him from the errors Into which he had fallen, By merely
running the eye down the column of figures in the statement
of the /don. Member, its utter improbability and extravagance
became manifest. From the year 1821 to 1824, he saw in the
first year of the series 34 millions of floating debt, or there..
abouts, and then all at once he ewer the amount expended to 107
millions, this was aloe sufficient to shew the lunacy of consi.
dering these annuities as an increase or debt. If he had been-
told that there was a confusion in supposing any diminution of
debt to have arisen from granting theme annuities, that he could
have understood, but When a measure, which consisted merely.
in spreading over a longer period of time certain annual pay-
ments, was treated as if it had been a creation of debt, he must
say that in so treating it, there was the most inextricable
cor;
fusion. The value of the debt never entered into their
accounts, and that for grin.! reasons ; the capital and the annual.
charge were stated, and that was the only clear way in which
the public accounts could be made up. Ile would next endeavour
to chew that with respect to the unfunded debt the. Government
had not been so improvident or imprudent as the HOn. Gentle-
man would have them believe. Ile censured Government for not
having reduced the unfunded debt et a more profitable time.—
The comparia in, however, between any .former time and the
present could not be very usefully Made till it wait knoWn whe-
ther the present time was to be selected for that purpose. Be
would look back to the yeer 18111, the year of the Bullion Corn.
mittee, to see what. that Committee had recommended, and
Would then see what had since been actually done. The recent."
mendatfon of that committee had been to reduce the Unfunded
Debt ten millions. Unquestionably this had trot only been cc::
complished, blit the reduction had been carried even much fur:,
they. The Unfunded Debt consisted of two parts of Exchequer
Bills unprovided for, and of advances by the Bank in anticipa.
tion of the ordinary revenue. To the second branch of the Un.
funded Debt it was the less necessary for him to advert, as it
was provided for, and did not requite any operation on the par;
of Government, and as the charge against Government referred
only to the Unfunded Debt unprovided for. To that no addition
bad been made since 1819, but, on the contrary, it had been
gradually and considerably reduced. On January 5, 1819, it
amounted to 19,480,0301. On January 8,1826, itWae no more
than 6,139,000!. He was now speaking of that portion of ti e
Unfunded Debt which was in the bambini' the Bank.—(A con-
versation here took place across the table between the Hon.
111 ember and 111 r. Illaberly, the purport of which we did not
collect.)—The most rapid reduction had taken place in the three
first years: In the year 1d22, it bad been reduced to little more
than 0,000,000 e, end in the years 1823-4 and A, it underwent a
further diminution of 8,000,0001., making altogether* tethiction
of 13,000,000/. Ile would then tiek the Home, if this gradual
reduction was an indication of that carelosnott upon this itne
portant stibject, of which Ciovernment had been accused.
There was only two modes by whie:t the Unfonded Debt could
be reduced. One was by the appropriation or eurplue revenue,
and the other by the creation of funded debt. The question then
was, Whether in any one of the years 1823.4 or 5 it would have
been Wiser, taking into view all the • circurhstances of 01°4
perothe to raise money in the public market for the purpose of
paying untrue a U lba hfiltuled Debt, thou to adept the meta-
sures which in each of those years lucre actually taken. The
objects which then pressed upon the attention of Government
were to afford relief to the subject front the preesu re of taxation,
and at the same time to lower the profits, and withdraw the
temptations to contraband trade. It could not have esceptel their
attention that it would have been better to have had a smaller
flnfunded Debt ; but they could not ahn at conflicting ob-
jectm. it was not easy to row two Ways at the same time. A
funding of Exchequer Bills would have occasioned a greet
increase of the annual charge; and he would ark, if there
was any thing in the state of the country hi tiny or those years
to induce them to make the sacrifice ? Was there tiny thing
which threatened puublic credit—any thing which made it in the
least probable that Exchequer Bills should go to such a dile,
count, or to make than potir into the the Exchequer VW.
Mein of taxes ? So far front this being the case, they bolt'
a high premium, and Were indeed so Itittell in request as to
afford Government the opportunity, which <it was its duty
not to refuse, of reducing the intereet upon them. Indeed the
premium presented an ObStacle to their redemption. (Govern.
fluent was not et all likely to buy them at 60s. prem. as there"
was a provision in the Sinking I, and Act which prohibited the
purchase of any funds when above per, lle begged to say,
that during this period no 'Exchequer Bills had been hsucd,
excepting such e woe given in exchenge for old bills called
in. Advertin to these circuoistanees, he had a right to may,
that there could have been no expectation of the country being
in such a state as they had recently witnessed. No man would,
he thought, press such en argument. Government would have
*hewn no wisdom, if, instead of those other beneficial measurees
which were adopted, they had reeerted to n Entitling of Excite.
quer Bills even if the state
great diffi'euhies in the way of such a procedure. He would
state the amount of loss which the country would have sustained
by the funding of Exchequer Dille, supposing for argument
sake that the wholeaimount outetanding had been sit dimposed
of. If in the year 18111, when the 3 per Cent. Consols were at
80, the lost would have been hp to the present time,5,420,000e ;
if in 1019,5,156,000/, ; if hi 1820, 4,302,0004 ; if in 1821, four
millions and upwards ; in 182:2 2. fe12,000/. ; 1823, 2,508,0001:
in 1824, 1,800,000/. ; and if ill I;e2e, 600,11001. If this statement
watt thought exaggerated because he had taken the wholeemount
of Exchequer Übe every lion. Gentlemanntight take whatever
abare he thought ought to have been fronded in any Of the
years he had mentioned, end the hiss would then have It ien in
proportion to such share. This consideraten woe m addition to
other substantial reasons of public feeling which alone would
have been sufficient in justify Government in the course it put,
sued. With respect to the part of the unfunded debt that which
teem provided for, he should not much advert to it. I t consisted
principally of advancer mule by the Bank, fns the purpose of en.
Oiling Government to pay off dissentient holden of 4 and 5 pet
cent. stocks. The Whole of this account between Government and
the Bank would, he had the satisfaction to state be disposed of
by the end oldie present year. Whitrespect to time annual dutlet
no advaneem heti been made upon then), so that his Hon. Friend
might dismites whatever apprehentions he entertained on thatscore. In regard to the deficiencice of the general revenue, the
advances of the Bank to supply them had in no Cate exceeded.
the balance of public money in inthendm .i and at the present rein
merit
were nothing like ttet much. The advance on ads bead was
theletli dotlll‘lttefilt!cltnef°n:llo7llltg"llnplitil?emriells'oaunrced
s pf fife !faith, t)f
ie Lich they h4d heerd so much. The operreion of. thee? letuv:
uriag the kites, rison of (lion*, had beet inocitleteittirri4ye,
'Phe defiekney bill wee always eideulated
tthec:Z:
on u.e ;Itli January, anti the thedh,
11390irea thit the linOtiltt was the entov
belnt,~ c....:41,: min rao
lmber,
and December, is the dietreas _
1111111; Watt all iti silvan* 111.9711lnit_Te, !).1) account Of
tlCiiekt cies. Thos it appeinaql, if iron." ntictnen would
take the trouble of %trimmer the account of what did not be.
long; ut it, 1,, discreet* wes to be as,ribed to this'
iwwwi 't1:11 t tetileleiee44t 'tl°:: 6rl. :oar the

iluctinA what is to be paid to the Bank from what they have to -
pay, they will not be in advance above fifteen millions, instead
•erll twenty-fours now deducting nine from twenty-four mil-
materially altered the complexion of it. His Hon. Friend
would say eighteen millions, but even between eighteen and
twenty-four millions, there was still a great difference.—
What, however, was the state of the fact P Was there any
404 that believed the Bank really to have been embarrassed
or in difficulties, they had always been ready to advance to in-
dividual merchants as far as prudence could warrant. He had
never put a question on this subject to his Hon. Friends behind
hitn—he had not thought it necessary. The facts showed that
they were not choked up. When the necessity arose, they did
take that cnurse which circumstances required, and that without
~beingimpededby any thing arising out ot' thew connection with
. Government. They had acted in a manner the most prudent,
end the most conducive to the public welfare, and he must take
that opportunity, of saying, that in all the intercourse lie had
had with the Bank Directore, he had found them meet anxious
too promote the general welfare of the community. Tne reso-
lutions of his lion. Friend were prospective. His recommenda-
„thins would receive their answer from his Right Hon. Friend
hethre a long period had elapsed. He had, he knew, been in
the habit of running It race with the Chancellor of the Exche-
enter, but as the statement of the financial situation of the coun-
try and of the views of Government would be laid before the
House in two or three days, he was at a loss to suppose why it
. should pow he called on to pledge itself to any particular mea-
mires. If any such pledge were now given, it would be incon-
sistent with the usual circumspection of that House. With re-
spect to that part of the resolutions which was retrospective, he
trusted he had said enough to convince the house that Govern-
ment had not been so careless or negligent of its duty as to
melt the cent:tires:which the resolution inflicted.
Mr. IlAtt LNG said that it /night be supposed, from the
speech of the Hon. Gentleman, Ghat the motion related to the
recent distress. The question, however, was upon the state of
the Unfunded Debt. And here lie must epee with the Hon.
4lentleinan, that it would be improper and inconsistent to put
Resolutions upon their Journal on the Friday, relating to a sub-
ject which was in a formal and regular way to be brought under
their notice on the following Monday. Alter the Chancellor of
the,Exchequer should have made his statement, it would then
.lien lit time for his Hon. Friend to bring forward any measures
he might have to suggest. The amount of the Unfunded Debt
'would be too much or too little according to circumstances.—
„Without giving any opinion as to what ought now to be done,
lie certainly thought it would have been wise when Consols
Were 95, to fund not only Exchequer Bills, but every other
claim upon Government for which money could be demanded.
--'l'he advance of the Bank capital fell under this description,
anti more particularly deserved attention, as the period was fast
approachingg, when it must be repaid, or, as the only alternative,
a renewed charter granted td,the Bank. This claim amounted
to 13 millions. Ile thought, there must be some error in the
' .calculations of the lion. Gentleman. The whole amount was
• not sullictent, he thought, to give such large results.
ever might Ii" said ofeagaeity after the evil, lie could not help
retying, that when the funds were so near 100, it would
;nave been good policy to fund. There might then have been
u less of 'fivteper cent., but they were now liable to a loss of
thirty, or forty. Compared with the importance of placing
the country in a situation of firmness and strength, the
object. of a million or two of money was of little consequence.
Ile .wits convinced that his calculation of twenty-four mil-
lions, as the,amount of the Bank engagements with Govern-
ment when he took the liberty upon the Currency question of
stating the resources of the Bank were choked up, was below
the mark. He had compared the present situation of the
Batik with its situationin 17113 and 1797, and for this purpose
was warranted iu taking the deficiency bills as the ground-
work of his reasoning. He had not yet beard uny thing from
the Treasury Bench to exculpate the Government. The Bank
had been compelled by the elate of the exchanges to screw down
• the'eurrency, and this had contributed to the calamities. The
history of the thing was as plain as figures could make it. In
• the spring, of last year, which was the bubble period, the Bank
notes in circulation were front 20 to 21 millions. Then the
'Bank took alarm in the state oldie exchanges, and began draw-
ing in, till they came down to 17,400,000, at which point they
stood in November idlest year, when the distress had got nearly
to its work. Then the Bank began to display its gallantry,
end it has now notes in cireulation to the amount of twenty.six
millions. Ile was not in any secret, but lie understood these
trensactions as well us if lie had been sitting the whole of the
time In the Bunk parloitr. These violent changes, this sporting
with the whole property of the country, was highly injurious.—
some might iirmate the blame to the Government, others to the
Bank, but it was quite clear that they must divide the blame
between them, in what proportions he would not pretend to de-
. tet mine. • If the Batik had not been in distress, its sales of Ex-
.chequer Billehail excited the itlea that something; must be
wrong, and hail produced a very natural panic. The lion.
. Member then commented on the engageteent of the Bank to pay
the dead weight, and thought it ought to be stopped front going
further. The Bank could never sell the annuities granted to it
• inn consideration of 'these, payments. When the Bank wished
to sell securities, the dealers would naturally be indisposed to
buy, because every body knew that sales by the Bank would be
eatteuded by adituinution of the currency. This bargain did
nothing but perplex the national accounts. Even a Right Hon.
Gentleman whose business it was to follow the operations of
'Government had conleseed his inability to understand them.—
The basis of this measure was, that the Half Pay and Pensions
should gradually diminish—it tippeared by the Army Estimates
that, on the contrary, they were encreasing. Thus the whole
fountletion of their ealculations had been taken away. 'The
Honourable Member 'apologieed for having soling occupied the
intention of the Douse. lie would not sit down without ex-1
,
preesinghte hope that no further delays would intervene before
• the Chancellor, of the. Exchequer produced his statement. The
'greatest anxiety prevailed for the disclosures he would have to
make. , • •
.
'file CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. said that his
Hon. Friend had so ably replied to the observations of the lion.
Member for Abingdon, that It would only be necessary for him
loamy a very few words. He agreed with the lion. Gentleman
~, who leoLjuet spoken, that the success oldie present Ilesnlutions
.would, perplex and confuse the arrangement of businesi in that
House, slut at as much as the paper of the lion. Mover per-
•plexed and confused the subject to which they related. Ile did
• :not think himself called upon to defend the whole financial pro-
:. eeoclings for the last ten years. 8o long, as he
had been particularly concerned, it certainly had not been
deny part at the policy of (government to keep up it large un-
funded debt as a thing desirable in itself. iVhat, however,
ewitsolie amount of the unftinded debt ten years ago ? On the
•• Jatnuary, MK it wait sixty-one millions; it was now 30
so much as one-half. lion. Gentlemen might say
this this reduction was not enough ; it was enough, however,
to afford prima Riede evidence that Government had not been
negligent of the subject. But with respect to
,the last three
years, tiering which period he had been particularly concerned ;
the funds during the whole of this period had been between
• • 91.1 and 100. In April, 1028, they had been no more than 74,
end a short time previous to that they were only at 72. Now,
he .ventured 4o say, that if they had inclined to fund ut this
price, the lion. Gentlemen opposite would have been heard In
their gundemnatinn. Then, with respect to the year 1024, the
Honourable Gentleman assumed that they hail never turned
.heir thoughts towards the subject. It must be remembered,
that when Exchequer Bills were nt a high premium, as they
..won). at that time, the holders would not be very ready to fund
them, without the Inducement of a high bonus. To have offered
a high bonus would not have been good economy, it would
have raised the economical spirit of the Honourable Member
jot Aberdeen, and they would have been lashed probably
more than eta any other occasion. Besides it would have been
'unwise to fund Exchequer Bills, nnd thus lower the price
•of the Stocks when at the tame moment, they were reduc-
. .ing the interest of the Four per Cents., an operation the suc-
rceas of which depended on the Stocks being high. Unless
kildir had ftbandoned that beneficial measure, it would have
been impossible ter reduce • the unfunded debt to any consider-
•hhie extent- Something, however, was done in that year. The
. revenue wad so liourlithing as to reduce the deficiency bills.
The !Subject of the deficiency hill* -was not generally under-
ettood, he would endeavour in a few words to explain it. There
Wen certain. quarterly, payments, he meant the Dividends upon
the Public Debt„ and the Civil List, which were charged upon '
the Consolidated Fund. That Fund greatly exceeded the
charges upon it. Without professing to be quite accurate, he
would call the charges 35 millions annually, and the amount
of the Conitolidated Fund 45 millions. 'The difference was
, applied to the general services of the State. The taxes were
however always in progressive course of payment, portions
of them were received every day and lodged in the Bank,
.that corporation thus obtained the use of lergd mums of the
pnblic money. It was, however thought advisable that the
public should have the profit arising from their own money.
These balances were, therefore, diminished. it then be.
came necessary that the Bank should, at the quarterly pc-
Tiede of paying the dividends and the Civil List, advance
whatever sum might be wanted to make up the difference
: between what was in the Exchequer, and the amount of
These advances were' male upon the security of
buchatitter bills, which were reduced successively as the
proceeds of the revenue permitted. But it so happened that
In 1824, the revenue was so flourishing that there was little or
It appeared to tarn expedient, therefore, to
no deficiency. -
e owing produce of the revenue in that year
'''3l)l4Y a part °t. th
the ett den Debt
to, the redemption at n Four mt one were
•Honourable Members for Aberdeen and
tie' applied.
Abingdon „nun applaud a ftreatinte by which a considerable
itevittg of interest was effected. On December 24, March 25,
June s2kt on each of these days one million had been
-ridefription of bills held by the Bank, and to
e",thv publtd alluethert of rip less than three Million* had

been paid, parties having applied for money to that amount
instead of receiving new bills. Honourable Gentlemen may
perhaps say, that this is not enough ; but still it is something.
At all events it was enough to prove that Government had not
in this particular been negligent of the interest of the country.
He was fully justified in saying, that had it not been for these
payments, there would at this moment have been no de-
ficiency. The charges made against Government he must
contend were unjust. If the Honourable Gentleman seriously
thought the finances were so mismanaged, he was surprised that
he did not bring the subject regularly and formally before the
House: His charges went the full length of imputing to Go.
vernment an abandomeat of its duty. It' those charges were
well founded, he, in particular, could no longer be consi-
dered 'as a fit person for the situation he now held. If
the lion. Member could induce the House to coincide in that
opinion, his Majesty's Government would of course feel them-
selves placed in a situation which left them but one alternative;
and he, for one, should not be very vehement in his complaints
against such an event. lint he really thought it was not quite
fair to charge upon them an utter incapacity to discharge their
duties by an amendment of this nature. No one could deny
that it was competent for the Hon. Member to produce any
Resolution to the House upon a question of Supply ' • but AS
this ltesolutioti involved a censure which left him and his Col.
leagues in the situation he had described, he was exceedingly
sorry that the House would have to meet it upon a question of
form, and not upon its merits. However, the vote of the
House might be considered as referring to the merits of the
case, and it decided in favour of the charge of incapacity on the
part of those entrusted with the management of the finances of
the country, he should be ready to bow with all due deference
to that decision:
Mr. HUM E thought the question had not been fairly met by
any Gentleman who had spoken on the other side. lie put the
case of the National Debt, and the general finances of the coun-
try, as between private individuals, and contended tint it
proved the correctness of die positiol taken by his Honourable
l'riend, the Member for Abingdon. In 1019 the.charges on the
country might have been purchased for 032,000,0001. of the cur-
rency of the c Juntry at that time, and the interest upon that was
29,144,7611. Now, by the manner in which the Government
had been going on, buying and selling, and constantly incur-
ing immense losses to die country, the capital of the debt
amounted to 893,783,2821., being an increase of 61,646,836/.—
The interest now was 29,176,000.. being an increase of 31,396/.
Thus, he contended, that the bad management of the Govern-'
mein, and die false principles upon which they had acted, had
rendered of no avail the 19,600,000/. of surplus revenue
which had arisen by the reduction of taxation. The Ho.
nourable Member then made his statement of the finances
for the last seven years to maintain his argurnent. The only
remedy was to simplify the public accounts, and to follow
the example of America or of any merchant who wished
to keep clear accounts, by having a balance sheet that would
show the state of the income and expenditure of the
country at one view. He then supported the arguments of
Mr. Blaberly, to shew that there had been equal mismanagement
inthe unfunded debt. The influence Of Exchequer Bills in
depreciating the value of 'property had been overlooked, by
those who charged it upon the issues of Bank paper. The con
duct of the Government in this respect had given more crmp.
ragement to gambling speculationa. than any other transaction
whatever. A large portion of Exchequer Bills ought to have
been funded in BM, anti by not doing so, the Government had
placed themselves in a situation not to be able to meet 'any
emergency hr which the country might be placed, as recent
facts had proved. He wished his Hon. Friend had brought die
subject forward by a substantial measure, upon which the
House could have expressed a clear opinion.
Mr. MABEitLY shortly replied, and said he should not
press the motion to a division.
The Resolutions were then negatived, and the original ques-
tion for the Speaker leaving the Chair, having been put—
Sir it. WILSON said he would take that opportunity of
requesting some information from the Right Ilon. Secretary
of State for Foreign Affairs, upon a subject of the greatest
importance to the honour and interests of the country. It
would be remembered that he put a question to the Right
Hon. Gentleman lust year, as to when the French army would
evacuate the fortresses they occupied in the Spanish territory.
The answer he received was, that the French troops were ex-
pected to retire considerably before the evacuation of Naples
by the Austrians. Now, as this had not proved to be the case,
' he trusted the Right lion. Gentleman would tell him whether
it was in the knowledge of the Government that any definitive
arrangement had been &eine to, as to the perital at which the
fortresses of Spain were to be evacuated, and particularly that
of Cadiz.

Mr. Secretary CANNING said he would give all the infor.
Illation in his power, but without going into the general 'wild-
cal considerations connected with the subject. He had not the
least difficulty in assuring the Hon. Member that he could not
be more anxious thr thu withdrawal of the French troops from
Spain than (as he was perfectly persuaded) the French Govern-
ment were themselves. As to the precise moment at which it
would take place, he could not undertake to say. It had cer-
tainly happened that arrangements had been made for it twice,
when some miserable paltry attack again threw them buck.—
It was therefore the titult of those who made such insensible,
paltry, unprofitable attacks, that no further steps had been
taken. Ile was confidently persuaded that the French Govern-
ment were as anxious as the lion. Gentleman could be, to have
their troops out of Spain.