The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-15 00:00:00

----,
Jain persons, and they ought to have further in fortklt• be tote, and doing thin they iVould find that there must he
*ion on the subject.—(Cheers.) He would do his best in expeeeO warratit for each opening.—(Hear, hear.)
to arrest this system of prying into letters oti the pail of As bis, understood the Right Honourable Gettiesean,
the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Igo he said that he issued a warrant against one of
told them that this warrant no longer existed, but he did the individuals who ~.SOO., not now in existence,
not tell them when it ceased to exist, nor when it was and it could. hels% only reference to one letter. If trea-
issued. He should like to see a copy of that warrants sot OAS liispected the Government could only act on in-
and if the House did see it they tooolst fOrmation—that information would be as to ft tai--
be able to ascertain to whom it Wee aa. fielder day or hour stteh tl, lettev.: *obis pass
dressed, and on whose authority this Oktraordinary through tho Post-41,0'A On that day it would
proceeding had been adopted. The Right Hon. Gentle- be found thettes ?Mk that was the only power given
man said that no other letters had been opened. Ile by tht Act. This was a Metter of deep consideration,
(Mr. T. Duncombe) said that the letters of Too`etts and it therefore shotfld.be well Oofisidered.
Mazzini, and the other gentlemen, had Iseett opened, Mr. CIIRISTIeIe that the Right Hon. Gentleman
read, and examined, at the Post-ffieee 'and that they had on .ere` 'Occasion stated that he was three years in
had afterwards been returned. A copy of that warrant the Rome-office, and during those three years he had
ought to be before the House of Commons, and ht expended but it trifling amoteet of secret service money.
should therefore move that a copy of that warrant He could now fteeount for that in conses
be laid before the House.—(Cries of " Otder, order !" quenee of the system of espionage Whch was
from the Ministerial benches, answered by cheers from adopttd. He wished to know from the Right lion. Ba-
the Opposition.) Well, then, in order to give bete ronet, whether havinsestated that he had issued a warrant
Members an opportunity of expressing their opinion, he with respect to one individual, he had issued warrants
wonlil move that the House do now adjourn.---(Cheers)— against others, not stating names, and. in how many
and he would take the sense of the House, it he stood tales ?
alone, on the question of the manner in which the Go- Mr. WALLACE explained.
vernrnent had interfered with the most sacred privileges Mr. DUNCOMBE said, that as he had no other way
of the subject.
of obtaining the opinion of the House upon this very
Mr. WALLACE said that when the Post-office Art dirty transaction, ',Toll which all explanation was re-
load pasted, in 1837, the Right Hon. Memberiee Tatm- fused, he ehonid divide the House upon the motion.
ton had assured the House that the Bill contain nothing Tbc 'gallery was then cleared, but the motion for ad-
hat a consolidation of the former Acts, The House he'. ;imminent was negatieed Without division, it being under-
licved that it was a consolidation Billy, and not an ate- stood that Mr, Duncotnbe would bring on the subject on
ration. The word authorising this interference with a future occasion, on going into Committee of Supply.
letters had been introduced secretly, and without the BANK CHARTER.
knowledge of Members. The Bill had been passed Mr. WODEHOLISE gave notice of an amendment on
under the idea that it was only a fair consolidation; the third clause of the Bank Charter Bill.
whereas it was an unfair and unjust alteration of the Mr, liIJME gave a notice respecting the same Bill.
former Act. With regard to the practice, it was nothing Some mistake in the wording of the Hon. Gentleman's
new. He had frequently drawn the attention of the notice caused much laughter.
House to it. It was one of the accusations which he .
had been in the habit of bringing forward year after year,
tion he had formerly put, and to have an answer before Mr. LA BOUCHERE said he wished to repeat a ques-
s SUGAR DUTIEShe
while he was agitating the question of Post. office reform.
The Secretary of State had excused the practice, and he
the House went into Committee on the Sugar Duties
(Mr. Wallace) believed that at the present moment there Bill. He wished to know whether, in their Custom-
]
was a regular machinery at the Post-office for the pur- house laws, there was any such thing as a certificate of
Posta There was a room set apart for opening letters origin required as to produce imported from foreign
tend examining them, and he believed that persons had countries ?
ben sent abroad to study in the school of Foueb6 hew Mr. GLADSTONE said that any inquiries of this
toOpen,fold, andreseal letters in the Post-office in London. kind were conducted at the expense of the Custom-house
Ile Maintained that the same perfect and entire freedom authorities.
'which was extended to a man's person should be extended Mr. LABOUCHERE— Then there is no such certifi-
-10 his correspondence. He admitted the power to open cato required ? letters was given in the Act of Parliament ; but he Mr. GLADSTONE was understood to reply in the
denied that it ought to be there. At the time when negative.
franking Was the privilege of Members, he (Mr. Wallace) 'he House then went into Committee on the Sugar
wrote on the outside of all his franks and letters "Please Duties Bill.
to reseal and forward this letter after you have read it, and On the first clause being proposed,
do not burn it,"—(Loud laughter)—and many of Mr. PHILIP MILES rose to move—" That from and
his letters were subsequently re-endorsed—for they had after the 10th day of Nov., 1844, the duty upon sugar,
been shown to him by their recipients—" this is one of the produce of British possessions, be reduced to 20s. the
Mr. Wallace's (the Member for Greenock) own letters, hundred weight ; and, that the duties on sugar, certified
be sure and forward it."—(Great laughter.) He was ex- to be the growth of Chins, Java, or Manilla, or of any
ceedingly sorry to be obliged to say any thing about the foreign country
Council shall have declared to be admissible, as not
, the sugar of which her Majesty in
consolidation of the Post-office Acts, but it was when
they were consolidated that this abominable authority being the produce of slave labour, shall be as follows :
after It had passed, nut by himself but b had dot in. This had been discovered in the Ac a
friendt soon namely, brown, Muscovado, or clayed, the cwt. 30s. ;
, y , and white clayed, or sugar otherwise prepared, and
it must have got there in a, manner he would not particu- equivalent to white clayed sugar, the cwt. 345.,
Daily characterise.
with fire per cent. thereon.' He said that as
Mr. LAI3OCCHERE said, as so heavy a charg the :1111 had been allowed to pass throughe had
been brought against him—for it was in the year 1836, several stages without any discussion being taken on the
when be was in office, and by the department of which he principle of it, he trusted that the Committee would
wail at •the head, that the consolidation of the Post-office allow him to make some observations before he pro-
Acts was effected, be was sure the House would in- seeded with his amendment,---(Hear, hear.) There were
Bulge him for a few moments, whilst he said a few words several reasons which prevented him from concurring in
in explanation and in self-vindication. His Hon. Friend the proposition of his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor
said he at that time gave a power to the Secretary of of the Exchequer. In the first place, he did not think
State—(Cries of " No, no ")—so he (Now he had a Mr. Labouchere
had understood his Hon. Friend.. ) that that was the proper time to bring that question
forward, unless her Majesty's Government
distinct recollection of what the law was before the con- pared to look the whole question in theta ce, were pre-
and to set
solidation, and his belief was that such power existed
it finally at rest.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.)
at that time, and had existed for years and years before. lie did not hesitate to tell the Government that if they
At that time he did what he professed ; he did not alter were not prepared to uphold the West Indian colony by
the law, but he consolidated all the laws having any rela- granting to it sufficient protection, it was far better to
tion to the Post-office. But he would read the words of the throw off the mask, and frankly say so, than to eneou-
old. Act. They were, that no one shall open letters rage a partial outlay of capital under the idea of a con-
"except by express warrant under the hand of one of tinned prohibition, which, in the end, must be irre-
the Secretaries of State, for every such opening, detain- trievably lost.--(Hear.) His Right lion.. Friend at
lAA': or delaying." With respect to the right itself, in his the head of the Government, when he brought forward
(Mr. Labeuchere"s) opinion, it was a power proper to be the tariff, expressly stated that he thought the Govern-
'vested in some person whose responsibility would ment ought
not to look at one. part of the question with-
be a sufficient , guarantee for its proper exercise. He out materially considering the whole. It would have
--tdinitted the responsibility was great, but still he could been a much more straightforward course for her Ma-
easily imagine cases where the necessity for such a jesty's Government to have come down on that occasion
Rower would bo imminent,—(" Hear, hear," from the declaring that they wished to make some alteration in
Treasury benches-) Ile knew nothing whatever of the the sugar duties, and to cheapen the article for the con-
particulars of the present case ; but he upheld the neces- sumer, than asking for the continuance of the income-
say of a power, under proper responsibility, to open or to tax. His Right lion. Friend, in the speech which he
delay „ • E, and he would not consent that such power made in 1841 on this question, quoted several passages
541114 ;I% 'ken away.
from a pamphlet which was notorious at the time, and
1:0r..13-11 RING could not deny that there might be finished his quotation with one which he would take the
cases of extreme necessity, in which the exercise of such liberty of reading •to the House, observing, that the
a P9wer as this might be
_called for. But these cases Right Hon. Baronet then expressed his eatiree assent
could only'and ought only to have reference to our own in the view of the writer. "The prosperity of the West
domestic again, and be was sadly afraid that home Indians," said the writer, "can only be continued and
affairs could not be stated as the cause for the present ensured by extensive and systematic emigration, and
interference.—(Cheers.
(Sir ) If the Right Hon. Gentleman by the temporary continuance of the present protective
been J. Graham) would only state that the power had discriminating duties upon sugar." They were now
exercised on account of, and solely for, home about to extend a free system of emigration without
affairs, the matter, is his opinion, could easily be settled, continuing the discriminating duties. The shortest
"(hear, hear.). If he did not do this, there could only period which could be allowed for the satisfactory work-
!:e one inference. that the letters were erpened, not for an ing of this experiment was two years; but it must be
honest VAiglish purpose, but for a discretable foreign attended with great expense to the colonies, while other
one.—(Loua cheers.)
countries have the benefit of animmense su
.Mr. WARBURTON said the words in the Act were of labour woulat a d very trifling expense, ands thuse be ableppl toy the same as those in the previous one. raise produce at a much cheaper rate to supply the
Mr. HUME—No, they are not the same. Here is the market which this country would open to them. They
old Act ; read the words yourself.—(Mr. - Hume here had been told, in the discussion on this subject, that this
handed the old Act to the Hon. Member for Kendal.) measure was a step towards free trade. When he
Vr. WARBURTON (having read the clause)—Then, coupled this statement with the measures which her
he must say, he liked those words better, for according Majesty's Government had brought forward, it • did
to this old Act, a warrant was required for occur to him that the thoughts of the Treasury
,each separate opening, detention, or delay. e benc were running in that .If they
did not agree iKith the Hon. Member for FinsburHy were hin favour of these principles, he for directio n
one could not
an saying there ought not to be this power vested in the blame them ; but he begged them not to ask him to go
Secretary of State. But he thought that this power with them.
If they intended to shape their course in
ought to. be exercised only in cases of great importance that direction he would ask them to carry out their
and emergency, and he thought there being a separate princies a little further, and give their colies the
warrant required for showing each letter was a salutary benefitpl of the first steps in that direction. Heon thought
provision, and he wished to ask the Right lion. Gentle- that when an alteration of the duty took place the
man whether he issued a separate warrant in each case West Indian colonies were as much entitled to fair con-
in which a letter had been opened ? . sideran as thricultu and er reat interests
Sir J. GRAHAM (with considerable hesitation in of this country. Aag
tax of ral
75 peroth cent.g was imposed
his manner).-4 really must appeal to the House, Sir. In upon the staple article of production, and as the price
the statement I made at first I said that I had gone the diminished the per centage increased.. He had listened
full length of explanation that I thought consistent with with considerable attention to the speech of his Right
my duty. -I must, therefore, repeat that Ido not con- lion. Friend in introducing this measure, but he had
sider it consistent with my public duty to proceed in any told them nothing beyond the fact, that on the very day
flasher explanation.
when egave ntice of this measure the price of sugar in
Mr. WARBURTON—Then I colleet from the an-
thiscountrhywaso2s.higherthaninthecorrespondingperiod
ewer of the Right Hon. Gentleman that he will not inform last year, and that in November their treaty with Brazils
the House whether he acted legally or not.—(Cheers, would cease, and on that account it was incumbent on
erica of " Order, order," and " Sp
the oke,
Right spoke.") them to make some alteration. The President of the Mr. ROEBUCK thought with Hon. Gen- Board of Trade said that he was disappointed in his cal-
tleman, the Member for Taunton, that this power, vested culation as to the supply to be derived from India. Ile
in aSecretary of State, ought to bo exercised with great believed that if' they placed the sugar duties on a firm
caution. lie thought the Secretary of State ought to be re- footing, within ten years they would give such a stimulus
spoesible to the House of Commons, and it would be well to its production in India as would secure to them a-large
Kt,here should be ordered to be placed on the table of the supply. In 1836 the supply from India had been Only
x/LTOe .. of Commons, every six months, a return of the 25,000 tons, and it was now 50,000 tons.—(Hear, hear.)
her of letters opened under a Secretary of State's By encouraging the growth of sugar in India they would
viAm.ank -
n
Mr. VI tINIE. be . increasing the demand for English manufactures,
Minister before had never heard it avowed by any which would not be the case if they encouraged
for .opening privatetlllh had given any authority whatever the growth of the su;ar in Java, because in that island a
through the Post-office,
which were passing duty of 50 per cent., ad valorem, was levied upon all Rri-
He was of opinion, that tish manufactures. He thought this measure was uncalled
notwithstanding what had fallen from his lion. Friend, for, because the supply of sugar for India would be greater
that in a free country such a privilege ought not to exist, than the demand. He thought the continued prevalence of
(Chtees.,' They were tokl that the slave the moment the easterly winds was sufficient to account for the present
he touclorl the soil became free, but by this' privil small excess of price. He found that the stock of sugar in
being ymted.in the Secretary of State, the tnan who ego thelhated Kingdom, on the 12th. June last, was 38,100 tons
free upon that toil became a slave himself. It uppearea,i against 31,000 tons• the amount of the stock at the same
period last year, and that in London alone, the excess of
to him to be an attack on public liberty. He would ask stock in Jan, and J 1843, as 3,000 tons.
how long the warrant which the Right Hots. Gentleman The averageuar priycelB44 of sugar inanu 1841 '
was 385., in 1842 it was
bad issued had been in existence ? It might have 375:, in 1843 it was 36s , and in 1844 it was 375., being a
ben existing for many months past. Why should trifle higher than it was in 1843, but lower than it was in
such. a. system of espionage exist—why should her Ma- 1841 and 1842.
dOtnhthe Istl of June the stock on hand was
6yoeortoor wtoonusllroammoxintgatio
siesty'e Secretary of State be made a police-officer for 1n,_09.9_ ttoonnss,
froman thee supply
Indties's
the protection of the Emperor of Russia, or any other (25),Øttx,01()
tons from Madras, 30,000 tons from Mauritius, making
individual? Such a thing was a disgrace to the coon-
altogether a supply of 260,000 tons. The consumption in
try. It was discreditable to the man who attempted it, 184,3 was 202,000 tens. This, therefore, would leave an in-
and dishonourable •in a House of Commons that would crease over the amount of consumption of 58,000 tons on 31st
sanction it. . He thought they had a right to demand December, 1844; the stock on hand at the same period last
further explanation from the BF: Alt Honourable year amounting only to 40,000 foes. The Right Hon Gentleman
Baronet. .We were at perfect peace in this coon- might deny that the supply would he such as he had stated, but
try, and no-plots were in agitation; consequently there he had in his possession letters front the colonies confirming his
was no necessity for such a privilege being exercised as statements. The Noble Aurd, - the Secretary for the Colo-
that-which had been taken advantage of by the Right nies, on introducing his measure relating to Canadian corn
ion, had staterl ill'it a great protection ought to be ex-
Hetn.Gentleman. This appeared to him to be one of the ltaesntdesedlito the 'produCtions-of the Colonies, and that they ought
in.ost-disgraeeful transactions he had ever heard of. He differed: to be treated "as integraportions of the empire. The Govern-
with the Speaker, in thinking that this ment had now altered their policy, and seemed prepared to sa-
-1 - not iv case of pressing grievance. They had a right, he said awain to demand an explanation fcerwifieweetehkes
acogloonthieesdfuotrythe benefit of the mother country. A
had been taken eff wool. That was
front the Right Ifonesoura'ble Gentleman, for the act for the benefit of the mother country; but was it for the be-
eves a most diseredituble . and disgraceful one, and the nefit of the Australian colonies ?—( Hear, hear.) Was it not
Right Hon. Baronet might depend upon it that if he did exposing them to foreign competition ? Thlee(s;loverement,Lalde
not give that explanation it would
riot be the last timehe would henr of it. lie trusted, therefore, that the now commenced operations agaihnasdt
lastthe seY,siotnagreedlndies.
to a
Hight Hon. Baronet, for his own sake, would give' House of Assembly of Jamaica
the
ex_ memorial to her Majesty on the subject of the duties of that
from that memorial,
planatiort.whieh had been required of him. colony. He would read some extracts
Mr. F. FRENCH said it was evident from the answer
or the Right Hon. Baronetlthat the remarks in it were exaggerated.
notwithstanding the remarks a the Hon. Member for Wolver-
hampton, who
listatbetr
, that both he and the Post-
hen roceeded'
to read extracts from the
• OffiCe- authorities had been guilty of misdemeanour on [The Hon. m
qu Member then
whicih the memorialistsjstated that several
threoor four occasions, for it must be eviih•nt to every ernoefreentandmsugar plantations'
had been abandoned in consequence
one, from. the answer which had bsen given by
Right Hon. Baronet, that only one warrant had been pervaded
the .of the want su of labour, and tht unil gloom
the island.rpl Thy e memorialists conacludedversa by stating
had been
withdrawn inasmuch as he had stated that " the " warrant that they always looked to their gracious Sovereign and to a
.
Mr. WATSON begged to call the attention of;
Conservative Government, to afford them protection. ( This
the eassege was received with lout ironical cheers and laughter
House to the words of the Act of Parliament. It Was from the Opposition.) The memorialists went on to state thatid
certainly a most unconstitutional exercise of power, and ,durtetly
outnehtiou in the duty on colonial sugar and k coffee
in
notuhe
enost.unpopular, to open the letters its the Post-office, afford zreelief, but that, itf a
wouldre cluertutioun
them,to lace
and render
and therefore the Act of Parliament should be construed nugatory the slave-grown
of the slay emancipation.] The mea-
strictly. He wanted to knot" from the Government
theyand sure Proposed by the Government would produce great dis-
law-officers of the Crown what interpretation satisfaction in the colonies. In order to show that the state-
would put on the Act of Parliament. There was a ments of distress were not exaggerated, he would read to them
great. distinction between warrants to open particular an account of the losses incurred during the last year on twelve
West Inndniaen
mesetracteasn.ceThese accounts had been furnished to
letters which would pass through the Post-office on a himW
on
noutn alone.
second, On the first estate etisitao ttenitrhde,
particular day, and general warrants to open particular
loss hayd been 2501..11
letters, directed to a particular individual.—(Hear.) The,
832/. ; on the fourth, 5,083/. ; on the fifth, 3,4701. ; on the
sixth, 3,440/. ; on the seventh, 8,0181. ; on the eighth,
House should recollect what a struggle there was about
10,201/. ; on the ninth, 2,25 et ; on the tenth, 442/. ; on the
general warrants as to service. lie would call the after-
tion of the House to the two Acts of Parliament on the eleventh, 478/. ; and, on the twelfth, 770/. ; and yet
subject. - The first Act was the 9th of Anne, chap. 10, the Right Honourable Gentleman would endeavour to
see. 40, and the words of it were—" Except by express persuade the Ilouse that the measure he proposed
warrant in writing, under the hand of one of her Ma- would secure the prosperity of the West Indian coloni
the certificate of origin, the e eral f liens;
jesty's principal Secretaries of State for every such
open- With respect to
log, detention, or delay." „Could any one, giving a fair in was that of dissatisfaction and distrust. The colgonnists theeought
terpretation to those words, say that it meant that you that the temptation
c too 6f the amount of duty between 345. and
great, and that all precautions against the
635. would h
were to have a warrant to be kept in force till revoked to
open all letters coating in a particular handwriting to a P4l.FlNrCleitterindividual.-!(Ilear) - Now let thorn see how introduction
finodf
istlsawveasuignator
thisw wouldo
nbnetruys.elelssf,
the
ed tGhantveitruwmoeunldt
inevitably
-‘ tnil-j siia-ltiftelha.. d
-,:ii:rivirit,....
„. -, by the statute proposed by the ho would they be able to prevent
could not prevent extyensive frauds in
ftrhaeuirdsowinn
cCuussttnornm:hheouussees,
-.. ,• cirabOrittosTaunten. The House would recollect
.- o that t -Act sai Parliament •
...f-to coniohd.a,. s
os was an Act passed merely probability of sugar being imported from _
abroad:?—(Hear,w hear.) He considered that
til the States
ofa
Agmreea.t.
lez.' 6%-w"'
e' Now
Acts. The words in that Act rice. They might expect to see many shipn ents of sugar from
. -e_ . • .----e..•, am, or delay lettere in obedience to an that country. The Government might obtain a considerable
seo—,Pr ""1,171" „t ' Now what was meant by an expre..s increase of revenue from tlis change, but he contended that
_e
, warran an express warrant to open letters, I y this increase would be at the expense of the colonists. H
7-•-freri tin ' -,- ti;d 1. h h 4
iik e t e an— of one of the • principal' wished to say a few words on the subject of coffee; Ihe duty
foge - in- n'..t on wires was reduced from eightpence to sixpence. He was
Acts of Parliament which existed
1004P.b to the
assured that the people of this country would not buy Brazilian

coffee, because of its bad Ilaiotir. Bit thia disturbing of the duties
kind the most ins`riiicious effects. What confidence could the
merchante-have in the stability of the present state of things?
—(Hear, hear.) The motion that he had brought forward
was the result of mature consideration on the ail of those
most interested in the spbiqe.t. Other ttiirjtfliii- 4' et iyateitt
of differential datiet: Lpi*.Okiiig to
.th'e.Worcling of 'the• Bill, to
fiats Iliforiiied bYihoise whom
.jae 'ziaeaqlted,ori,,the entice; that
i
the liiiher 'quality of ja.va siuktse would .130 iptreddeed, Under
the . Bill. He thought, ~at , all event'S; ala 4. thoillti not
be left Bill.,
the Aire or Custom-house officers.•—( Hear,
Heat.) lie was told that compensation , had been
given, but could that be called compensatian which did not
give the West India interest one-fifth of whet the? Wight to
get ? He thought that If they had a free system of iiiimigration
in the West iii-dies they would not have so teach to hompleire
( Heir, hear.) Rut that *As Wit alleisell; and rib* their cOlde
nies would be *arse than iiieleis, Unless the were supported by a
s.utlieleet distrintinating duty. In Jamaica, Trinidad and Guiana,
the price of labour was 4id. an hour, while in Barbadoes it
was only 2d.; the consequence of this was that it occasioned
a difference in the value of estates. It had been stated that
the land, particularly that of Jamaica, had Leen worn out.
He had travelled over the island, and could contradict that
asstartien. They might be sure that as long as their colonies
existed they would require protection. The Right Hon.
Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, might suppose
that his preposition would have the effect of injuring the
revenue, but he did not think such would be the case. The
colonial sugar markets could not be in a worse condition than
they then were, and the shipping interest connected with the
West Indian trade was in a most depressed state. He wished
the Right lion. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would pay a visit to his estates in the West Indies, and then he
would see that those territories which formerly produced
the cane in . abundance, were now overrun with wood
and weeds. St. Domingo, formerly so productive,
was now in a most impoverished condition, which
might be chiefly attributed to the emancipation of
the slaves.
.He did not come forward to ask any exorbitant
protection in favour of the West Indian colonists. He only
asked so much as would screen them from total ruin. He had
hitherto given his consistent support to the Government, but
he believed it to be his bounden duty to oppose them on this
occasion. He felt it useless to appeal to the Treasury benches,
as he knew he should find no mercy there. He felt it equally
useless to appeal to the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, who were in
favour of a free trade in sugar. But he turned with some
degree of confidence to the agricultural Members.—(lronical
cheers from the.Oppoaition.)• They surely ought to support
the colonists, as the case of these men might very soon be their
OVVh.--( Laughter.) The same principle applied to both. The
only difference was, that here we grow corn, there they grow
sugar.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman concluded by
proposing his amendment, and expressing his regret that he had
oot been able to address his arguments in a more effective manner
to the House.
Mr. BAILEY seconded the amendment, and observed that
the Right Hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board of
Trade, had, in combatting some arguments of the Noble
Lord, the Member for the City of London, misquoted the re-
turns of the price of American sugar, or rather misrepresented
those returns, in order to suit his own purpose. The Right
Hon. Member quoted the returns of the price of sugar at New
York, which set forth that the price in that city was from
353. to 403. per cwt., whereas the average price in New Or-
leans, as appeared from late returns, was only 225. per cwt.—
(Hear,' hear. ) The Hon. Member then quoted from the last
official returns of the United States, which stated that in New
Orleans sugar was only 25 cents per lb., or 255. per cwt., and
these documents further specified, that since the American
tariff had been passed the increase of sugar had been very great,
particularly in the State of Louisiana. In truth, the Bill was
brought into the House under a false pretence=_( Hear, hear)
—and the arguments of the Government in supporting it were
grounded upon false data. Slave-grown sugar would not be
kept out of the -English market by the Bill. By this Bill
America would be enabled to send sugar to this 'country at a
cheaper duty than it could come from our own colonies. If
this were the case, then a vacuum would he created id the sugar
Market of America, and that vacuum would have to be filled up
with the slave-grown produce of Cuba and Brazil. This Bill
would, therefore, be indirectly an encouragement to slavery and
the slave-trade. Now, he wished to ask the Right Hon. 'Ba•
ronet whether it was his intention to enter into .a .treaty of
commerce with Brazil ? - If he did so, the first article of that
treaty should be to place Brazil on the footing of the most fa-
voured nation. He (Mr. Bailey) thought the people of the
country had to complain of the course which the Government
had taken on the subject. To show the necessity for this Bill,
the Government ought to have shown that the supply of sugar
this year was less than the demand. This, however, was not
the case, for the returns showed that the stock in band this
time last year was 31,000 tons. while this year it was 38,000
tons. He believed that the vacillating and uncertain course of
her Majesty's Government would, if persisted in, involve a
large portion of the empire in the greatest destitution and
distress.
Mr. EWART could not support the proposition of the
Hen. Gentleman, because it maintained a difference in the duty
on sugar in one part of the world and sugar grown in another.
He did not believe that the proposition would be of that benefit
to the country which the hon. supporteri of it bad anticipated.
The CHANCELLOR of the :EXCHEQUER thought
the speeches 'which the two Hon. Gentlemen who had pro-
posed the amendment had delivered, applied but ill to the re-
solution which had been submitted to the Committee that even-
ing. The liOn. Member for Bristol had stated that the reso-
lution of the Government would give protection to the slave-
trade, but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would
ask Whether the Honourable Gentleman's own pro-
proposition would tend in any way to discourage that trade?
T come more closely, however, to the proposition then be-
fore the. House, if he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) were
pr'rpared to agree to- any further reduction of the duties on
sugar he should not_ be willing to make them as suggested.
Dill he 'think such reduction desirable he should prefer to
effect it in such a way as to give an advantage to the con-
sumer, and also very probably to throw some of the money into
the pockets of intermediate parties. He must, however, be
peamitted, whilst speaking to the proposition itself, to congra-
tulate the H'euse that there was so much agreement between
it and that which he himself had had the honour to submit to
their consideration.—(ltlurmtwe from the back. Ministerial
beaches.) His Hen. Friends behind; by the proposition which.
they had submitted, showed that they agreed with him that'
there ought to be a distinction made between colonial and
foreign sugar, and they also agreed with him that whatever was
'
the reduction, it should be made as early as possible. His Hon.
Friends behind him also told the House that he had rightly
estimated the amount of protection that they required.—(Loud
cries of " No, no," and expressions of surprise.) Why, they
proposed precisely the same amount of protection as he had
proposed, and the only distinction between the two measures
was this, that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) sub-
mitted a measure without a reduction of revenue. There
might, perhaps, be some fraction of adifference between them,
but he confessed he looked Upon it as of so minute a character
as not to be worth one moment's consideration ; and, there-
fore, he was justified in saying that even in the
view of his Honourable Friends behind him, ten
shillings protecting duty was looked upon as ade-
quate and sufficient. If then the protection was the
same in both cases—the same according to the plan of the Go-
vernment, and the same according to the suggestion of his
friends—if they had the same advantages hereafter against com-
peting parties as they themselves proposed—what was the be-
nefit they proposed to attain by the course they were now pur..
suingj? The end would he this, that there would be a loss to
.the revenue, no benefit to the consumer, and the duty that was
sacrificed they hoped to get into their own pockets in whole or
in part. Now, in discussing the two proposals before them, it
was the duty of the House to consider how they would operate
on thedifferent interests affected by them. To begin with the
case of the consumer. With respect to his (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer's) proposal his friends behind him stated that in
its working it would only give to the consumer the advantage
of one halfpenny in the pound. He freely admitted that the
benefit was small, and not as good as might have been wished.
But his object had necessarily been two-fold—to consult the
comfort of the consumer, and to regard the interests of the re-
venue. Now it was necessary to state that when he made up
his mind to propcsc a measure in reference to the sugar duties
ha acted under the pressure of a feelieg which still exercised it-
self powerfully upon him, that during the latter part of the year
which had to arrive there would probably be a considerable
scarcity in the article of sugar. And this expectation he had
founded, not on loose statements, but on a careful consideration
of facts communicated to him, and on a consideration of what
had occurred in antecedent years. These expectations were
confirmed by the West Indian party themselves. From the
best sources he could consult he bad come to the conclusion
that the supply of sugar for 1844 would be about 227 s 00 tons,
or equal to that which they had anticipated in 1843. He
well knew that owing to the great drought in Jamaica,
the failure of the crops had been most extensive, and he could
speak with the more confidecce on this point, because his own
property, which was situated in by far one of the most fertile
portions of that island, had partaken of the general unpro-
ductiveness. The crop in all the dis'rict he referred to
.had
fallen so, that where they counted by hundreds they now only
counted by tens. He had also been informed, on the very best
authority, that a number of estates had been given up. Ani
therefore, when he had to make his estimate of the probable re-
ceipts of sugar, he could not but come to the conclusion that
they must not calculate for this year on a largerimport than
for the year 1813. There were a number of persons, hoe-
ever, who complained strongly of the way in which -the sugar
duties were levied—of the annual discussions- s( Hear, hear )--
upon the subject, and of the unsettled state in which property
and trade were kept by it.—( General and loud cries of
" Hear, hear.") He was ready to admit that the present in..
security which existed on this subject vt as' a great evil, and
that it was moat desirable to put those duties on a More stable
footing. And when the time came that the income-tax must
be taken into consideration, in connexion with the great sub-
jects of the trade, commerce, and revenue of Country, it
would be for the House to make up its mind whether it would
not recur, -as regarded the sugar duties, to that state of per-
manence to which ithad formerly rebelled, but to which perhaps
hereafter it might properly prefer to return.—( Hear, hear. )
But let him see what effect the proposition of his friends be-
hind;hino would have upon the consumer. What would be
the effect? Why, that during the intervening period be-
tween this and the time they proposed that their scheme
should come five operation, they would paralyse the trade--
they gave an intimation to every man who was now about to
buy not to do so. The effect of that would be to stint the
market to the greatest possible degree, and all that incon-
venience would result to the consumer which a contracted
market necessarily occasioned ; and this, too, would take
place precisely when most mischief would be occasioned;
when, from the abundance of trait, the demand for sugar
ought to be the greatest and the supply ought to be accorded to
the largest extent possible. In considering this question they
were bound to look at its effect on the revenue. He antici-
pated from this alteration a loss, at first, of 60,000/. to the
revenue, against which was to be placed the increase that
would probably arrive in the latter part of the year. It was
necessary that they should keep the revenue up to its usual
amount, or they would not be able to give the Howe that
fair opportunity of discussing the continuance of the income-
tax, which it was must desirable the House should have. With
respect to the risk that it was said would arise from the admis-
sion of Java and Manilla sugars into the home market, he
had made diligent inquiry into the subject, and he could not
discover in the warehouses of London any Manilla or Java
sugar of a higher quality than the usual sugar in the market.
He did not, therefore, see the necessity of any additional item
in the tariff; that would only lead to great doubt and confusion.
Whether it might be possible to draw a more clear and defi-
nite distinction between the different sorts of sugar he did not
know, but it was a point well deserving consideration. At
one period he made a proposition of that kind to the House,
which, however, was not favourably received.—(" Hear, hear,"
from Lord John Russell.) There was a combination
against it of Members on boils sides of the House ;
and his only consolation under the difficulties of the ques-
tion was the confession of Lord Sidmouth, in his place
in the House, that he thought the attempt was extremely
praiseworthy ; and he regretted that 'ne should ever have
opposed it. His lion. Friend had entered into a variety of
Wtohpiicchs tahactouwnetrreyrsahtohuelrdapplicable to the general principles on
question before the House.He knew governedtthhaatn t thee r
e thewas im ma egdrieaat et
objection to the principle of free trade, as applied to this and
other questions. This might to some extent
be owing to the
obloquy the phrase had acquired from the way in which it had
been used. But he, was not, fur that reason, to be deterrent
from doing what he thotight was erinitahle between the con-
tending parties. It was because lie had tried to reconcile con-
tending parties—to reconcile the interests of the producer with'
that of the consumer—that he had exposed himself to the im-
putation of having brought forward a measure that was dis.

appointing to every interest it applied to. His Hon. Friend
said it did not assist the revenue, that it did not please the free
traders, though they would vote for it, and that it still less
pleasedi the West Indian proprietors, because it admitted to the
Dome ,marhgt at .a reasonable ,dutr, what had, been before ex-
e tided. When they disetiesed this questitin, they intitit hear in
mind that: there was' 0 great a,hd.groWitv tleling in the piibliii
mind against any proteotion,beyend,w,hattlie necesgiti pf the
Caie required I and in filing , the Sinn Which, hp Nought the
justice of the case required, he consideised it tatter tO flu
it at the amount he hid done than to be under the necessity of
making further reductions hereafter. It was disagreeable to
be placed in opposition to those with whom he generally acted,
grid folS tirhniii lie had. C gtent pertoral . esteem ; br he could
assure the Hdn. Gentlemen that he had acted iti isle fretett
base under the bertain impression that the ineaSure was one for
their bash ultimate interest. He believed the worst thing that
could happen for the tioloiiies was; that sugar should rise in
price, in this country, to the level at which it had beeii
and whatever the colonies might have suffered—what-
ever they might hare lost by the suppression of. the sys-
tem of apprenticeship, which was prematurely cut sho-t—
-yet the feeling was strong that considerations of individual
interest should give way for the general good of the community.
Notwithstanding all that had been said on the subject, he firmly
believed that the measure was a sound one, and that it was not
adverse to the permanent interest of the colonies themselves.
He recommended the msasure to the House, and he thought
the House would concur with the Government in the view he
had taken.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said the speech' of the Right
Honourable Gentleman had strongly tended to increase the
impression he felt, when the financial statement of the Govern-
ment was made, that the discussion of this question, and that
of the income-tax, ought not to have been separated. He
regretted that the Government had severed these two questions.
The House came with great disadvantage to the discussion of
them, but they could not help themselves. They were in
Committee on the sugar duties, and they must discuss them in
the best mariner they could. It was his intention to support
the motion of the Hon. Member for Bristol. The question was
the choice between the measure of Her Majesty's Government
and that of the Hon.. Member, and he considered the plan
of the Hon. Member the best of the two.--( Hear, hear.)
He would now proceed to consider this question with regard
to the interests of the consumer, the West Indian interest, and
the revenue, and, as compared with the scheme of the Govern-
ment, he thought that the proposition of the Hon, Member for
Bristol would be far more beneficial to the consumer in this
country, whose interests should be first in their regard.—
(Cheers.) How the Right Hon. Gentleman could argue that
the measure of the Government would be more beneficial to
the consumer was to him perfectly astounding.—( Hear, hear. )
Perhaps the Government intended to, re-open this question
next year in connexion with the income-tax, but if that were
so, was there ever an important public interest treated in such
a way as the West lndlan !merest was by the present Govern-
ment?—( Cheers.) It woe desirable they should have some
explination from the Government on the subject, because the
language used by the Government had spread consternation
amongst the merchants, and produced a perfect stagnation in
trade.—(Hear, hear.) The principle of the Government
measure, if principle it had, was that they should exclude
slaire-grown sugar, and quarrel with their best customers to
give every encouragement to' free labour produce. But no-
body believed that they could obtain that object. Not a
single Minister had said that iri his conscience he believed they
would be able to do sa's but the Right Hon. Gentleman, the
President of the Lard Of Trade, said that if it came in "it
would not be on their consciences.
Mr. GLADSTONE denied that he said se.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he should be sorry to misrepre-
sent the Right Hon. Gentleman. He was under the impres-
sion that he said so ; but it was, at all events, utterly absurd to
suppose that they could exclude sugar. He held in his hand
rather a curious document. It was an extract from the Ha•
vannah Price Current, of the 9th of May. This was when it
was understood what would 'be the general features of the
measure of her Majesty's Government.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
measure of her Majesty's Government could not have been
known then.
Mr.' LABOUCHERE said he thought it was pretty gene-
rally known what that measure would be, after the discussion
which had taken-place on the subject of the Brazil treaty.—
( Hear, hear.) At all events, the merchant as ho wrote the
extract he was about to read, made a pretty accurate guess.
He said that during the last month large purchases of sugar
had been made, and at a higher price, in consequence of the
London advices of March, from which it appeared that there
was an intention of an alteration in the English duties, which,
though indirectly, would increase the quantity of Havannah
sugar exported to Europe.—(Cheers.) He was more inclined
to believe the merchant who wrote this, than the calculations
and prophecies of her Majesty's Government, who would per-
suade them that the system of certificates would effect the
exclusion of slave-grown sugar from this country. It was a
perfect delusion to suppose that they would have such an
effect. He hoped they would have a more satisfactory expla-
nation from her Majesty's Government than had yet been ob-
tained on the subject of those certificates. It was 'a system
entirely novel in their Custom-house regulations. The notion
of certificates of 'origin coming from foreign ports, and de-
pendent for their accuracy on the signature of foreigners, ex-
cept that they were to be seen by her Majesty's Consul, never,
he believed, came into the
_head of .any Government except
that of her Majesty's present Government.—( Hear, hear.)
Them what a duty did they impose on her Majesty's Consul ?
How was' their Coitsul at New Orleans to act and decide upon
the different representations which would be made -to him ?
The fact was, that the sschenie of the Government would get
them into interminable difficulties with foreign countries.
These who thought that the scheme of the Government was
better than that of the Hon. Merniker for Bristol, were of
opinion that the sugar of Java, Manilla, and Siam, would not
come in at the low 'duty. of 30s, but at the high duty of 345.
He (Mr. Labouchere):dotsbtedthat it would be so. He held in
his hand a return' upon which relianee might be placed, of the
average price of the various descriptions of augers in bond in
• the months of May, Junes -July, and August,' in the yeas
1839, 1840, 1841, 1842; 64.1843. riot to. go though_the
vshole, Ise n'otittstakis* the Tor 1843, 'and he fontiffiay. at that
the average price of Java, Manilla, and Siam brown sugar in
bond averaged 19s per cwt.,' The price of 'white Brazil sugar
duringthe same month'wt. 235., and of yellow
.stigttr 17s. 6d.
The price of Havannah *bite sugar was 285., of brown, 19s.
The consequence he deduced from these figures was this :
that the greater part of the sugar produced in Java, Manila,
and Siam,:and in bond in London at that time, must have more
Closely resembled the brown. sugars which would be intro-
duced under the 30s. duty than the white sugar which would
be introduce a t 345. His opinion was that they would hive a
considerably larger supply of brown Muscovado sugar at the
low duty than of the white sugar at the high duty, and that
consequently the consumer would- be greatly benefited.—
But he would not consider exclusively the interests of the con-
sumer. He would also consider the interests of the West
India planters, and he rejoiced that on this oclasien he could
support a plan that reconciled their interests with
the interests of the consumers. (Hear, hear.)
Then, with regard to revenue, it was not alleged by the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer that he felt any great alarm at the
motion .of the Hon. Member for Bristol en account of the re-
venue, nor in his (11r. Labouchere's) opinion was there any
fear on that account. He would vote for the scheme
of the Hon. Member for Bristol as preferable to that of the
Government. Any attempt to distinguish between slave-
grown sugar and free-labour sugar would be fraught with diffis
culty and danger, and would be proved to be altogether nuga-
tory. It was most important that there should be a permanen-
settlement of this question, and confidence amongst the mer.
cantile interest was far better than a duty of Is. more or least
For the reasons he had given he should support the motion o
the Hon. Member fur Bristol.—(Cheers.)
Mr. GODSON could not congratulate the body to which he
belonged on the Right Hon. Gentleman's advocacy. It was
not pretended that this was anything more than a temporary
measure. It was understood by all parties that it would be made
known next year precisely upon what footing the duties were
to be placed. He looked forward to a tithe when there would
be a duty of 14s. or 15s. and that Change he believed would be
a real benefit to the consumer- In the. meantime, he be-
lieved the alteration would not make a. difference of - more
than 5,000 or 6,000 tons in the year. The question was
often asked why there should be any difference at all between
the duty OR colonial and that of foreign sugar. He thought
the simple answer to that objectiOn existed in the fact that
the colonies were their own. All the instruments used
in the production came from England : their rates were all
the same; there was the same Church Establishment ; there
were, in all respects, in fact, similar expenses ; and that
being the case, he thought it was but just that there should
he a distinction made between the colonies and foreign coun-
tries. He regarded the present measure as an 'indication
of what was to take place next year. If the
duty were reduced down to 15s next year, the free-labour
sugar would, of course, be admitted, and then would come the
question of the admission of sugar from Cuba and Brazil, in
which the question of the slave-trade should not be lost sight of.
He would not vote for the motion: -of the lien. Member for
Bristol, because he thought-that by-doing so he would pledge
himself to' eonse:nr. to
.it larger extension 'of the principle in
future. - - '. ' Mr. BERNAL thought the arguments of his Hon. and
Learned Friend were most'incOnclusire. If he was such a friend
'to a general settlement-Why was he so enamoured taf ~the pre-
sent proposition ? Why . did he, not oppose', this at-
tempt to take a tithe :of the change, en that
occasion when he expected: -'a final settlement next
year ?—(.Dear.) 'They most look their difficulties In the face
He considered the course advocated by his Hon. Friend oppo-
site one in which he was imperatively called on to concur. He
had heard it hinted on. that side that there might be some
conspiracy in the pitspogyl. of 345. in reference 16' the free.
grown sugar of Manilla and Java. He did not believe that
any conspiraeLerlisted. The Hon. Gentleman then made a
detailed statement of the process of claying and refining
sugars, and explained the difference between cloyed sugars,.
Muscovado sugars, and bastard sugars. He was surprised to
hear the statement of the Hon. Member for Dumfries, that the
differential duty between the Muscovado and the clayed sugars
had been reduced at the solicitation of the West, India body.
notHe beemliaenvaetdedthfarot
ma aothleici‘txapetisotnitnodtiahabt
body. The
might have ema-
nated from the grocers and the refiners, but it had certainly
geouhtidHnonot.
Gentleman had said that the Custom-
house
distinguish between the Muscovado and the clayed sugars,
but he really could not - imagine that there could
be any difficulty in distinguishing between them. If no
difference were made between clayed and Muscovado sugar, a
great hardship would be intlieted upon the West India body.
oTffihece Right
No clayed sugars ware prepared in the West Indies—he believed
none were prepared in the East Indies or the Mauritius, and it
would be a great hardship it the clayed and crushed' sugars of
Siam, which had undergone a partial process of refinement,
were admitted at the same duty as the Muscovado sugar. The
words of the Bill were " cloyed, but not refined ;" those words
were calculated to produce confusion. He protested against
being fettered in any subsequent transactions by supporting
this measure, except that he admitted that the West Indians
could not expect any protection beyond 10s. He thought the
I West Indians ought to have some relief afforded them in the
article of rum.—(Cheers.) It was ridiculous that it should
be excluded from the markets of Scotland and Ireland by the
differential duty at present existing—( Hear, hear)—and he
t was also of opinion that molasses should no longer .be excluded
i from the distilleries by the present absurd regulations.
Mr. BOUVERIE, in allusion to the statement which had
been made, that there was a'conspiracy among-the West India
body to carry this motion, would observe, that although there
was:no direct evidence of conspiracy, yet, if they admitted the
doctrine of conspiracy as laid down in another country, there
certainly was evidence of a conspiracy among the West India
body tit carry this motion.—(Cheers and laughter.) If he
could be convinced that the proposition of the Hon. Member
for Bristol would not create an additional differential
duty, he would support it, but as far as he could understand it,
the effect of the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bristol
would be to create a differential duty of 145. instead of one of
10s., as proposed by the Government, and, therefore, he should
vote against it.—( Hear, hear.) In a revenue point of view,
it was of importance ;hat the money raised to carry on the
Government should be raised in the manner the least bur-.
densome to the people, !Mt it was also a fundamental prin-
ciple that no portion of the money so raised should go to any
purpose except to the support of the S:ate.—( Cheers.) Now
what was the operation'ot the differential duties? A differen-
tial duty of 4.15. per cwt. gave the West. Indian and the East
Indian proprietors a monopoly of the market.. Whatever
amount of differential duty- was imposed. if it did not give a
monopoly, it gave a berms to the whole amount of the differen-
tial "duty.—( Hear, hear.) He could not see any reason for
giving an additionel bonus to the West India proprietors.
Even at a differential duty of 10s. 6d., which was proposed by

rHE SUN, LONDON, SA.TITIthAy _EVENING, JUNE 15, 1844.

the Government, the Vs eat India proprietors bed, during, the
last four years, received 2,050,000 e, and the idditiongl half-
penny proposed by the Hon. Gentleman would give them
818,0001. more, which would be taken from the purposes of
the State, and must be raised out of the pockets of the
people to supply the deficiency. Now if everything went
'ell With the iYest lediane, there might be some excuse for
continuinf thie system ; th'sl had alleaye been complain •
ins, of su ering and loss since they had listen tin
derAbe systemsof protection. , It v'sas useless for them to say that the attention
of slavery had pidtNiced these limes arid infferings. They Made
the same complaints before slave-4 olds abolished: He held in his
hand a memorial from the West India proprieferei in 1801,
containing the same complaints. It was clear then that they
slid not prosper under the system, and he would recommend
them td try anSihn'. bet ttim try the system of free trade.—
"( Hear, hear.) Why should ntit free trade answer with regard
to sugar as well as it had with regard to silk ?—(lleaes hem., )
They, had better at once make the change, and consent to all
of the. duties.
Mr. F. BARING was set rorprised that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer should be anxious to cattls the discussion to
the proposition immediatiately before the House, find elesold
not diverge into a discussion on the principles of the measure.
He could not but recollect the arguments which had been used
against the proposition which he bad e bmitted to the House
in 1841—how slightingly and contemptuously the arguments
he had ventured to use had been passed °ter. He had been
assured by the Right Hon. Gentleman, the present Chancellor
of the Exchequer, that there was no necessity for alteration—
the prices would fall—that there would be an ample supply for
the West Indian Colonies and for India, and that the most per-
fect reliance could be placed upon the estimated amount of the
supply. He had ventured to suggest that the estimates might
be exaggerated, and that the supply would not equal the de •
mand. The Right Hon. Gentlemen found that the arguments
which he had then used were now used against himself by
the Hon. Gentlemen behind him. Night after night had he
(Mr. Baring) been taunted with these estimates, and now the
Right Hon. Gentleman who had so taunted him told him very
coolly that they might be mistaken in their estimates., end
that, in fact, no reliance whatever could be placed upon them.
—(Loud cheers.) Another weighty argument was, that a
great experiment was going on in the West Indies, and they
were asked how they could reconcile it to their duty to
introduce the competition of slave-grown sugar pending that
experiment. What were they doing now ?--(Cheers.) The
price of West India sugar must be regulated according to
the proposed plan by the price of free-labour sugar. Now, if
they had as ample a supply of free-labour sugar as they
wanted, its price must be regulated by the price of sugar in the
markets of the world : that was, by the price of slave-grown
sugar.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman gave a pro-
tection of 10s.. and a shade, which he calculated at 2s. Now
he (Mr. Baring) had proposed a protection of 125., so that
there was no great difference between them. The great ar-
gument against his proposition had been, you are encouraging
slavery. What were they doing now ? He admitted they
were not doing it directly, but they were doing it as
surely as if they took 10,000 tons of slave-grown sugar.
The Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool had told them that
they were indirectly encouraging slavery, but the Noble Lord
had given no notice of a resolution now, as he had in 1841.
(Cheers and laughter.) The Government had adopted a
most unfortunate course in stating that they would re-consider
the question next year. Whatever they intended to do they
should do at once, so as to disturb the markets as little as pos-
sible. They should not leave the markets for one whole year in
fear of they knew not what.--( Cheers arid laughter.) lie had
heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer say that nothing could
be more unfortunate than for a Government to hold out an
expectation of change. At the commencement of the
present session his Hon. Friend the Member for London had
asked the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Governs ent
if he intended to alter the sugar duties, and the Right Hon.
Gentleman had replied, that he could only suppose that such a
question could be put by the youngest Member in the House.
But the Hon. Member for London now had his revenge. The
Right Hon. Gentleman would not tell him three months be-
forehand what he intended to do; nothing could be more in-
jurious to trade. But now for a whole year they left the colo-
nial interest under the announcement of the proposed reconsi-
deration ; nothing could be more injudicious or more
inconsiderate. The Honourable Gentleman who had just sat
down, and who had addressed the House so well—(Cheers)--
had stated it as his opinion that there was concealed under the
proposition of the Hon. Member for Bristol some intention of
a proposal for giving additional protection to the West India
interest. If he had the slightest idea that such would be the
effect of the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman, he would
not support it, as he intended doing. He did not believe it
would give any additional protection to the West India in-
interest beyond reducing the price of sugar, and that was a
legitimate advantage to which they were fairly entitled. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer had fairly stated the pro-
position of the Hon. Member for Bristol, and he admitted
that the protection proposed by each of them was the same.
He feared the sugar of Cuba would come into this country.—
( Ironical cries of " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.)
Yes, he did not wish to see the Government of this country
defeated in its main object; and if slave-grown sugar was to be
received, he wished it to be received only in a fair, open man-
ner.—( Hear, hear.) In 1841 the question of layed sugars
was brought under his consideration, and be proposed a gene-
ral duty of 365. Between the time of his announcement of
this plan and the period of its being brought under the full
consideration of the • House, he received so many, and such
forcible, remonstrances, that he became perfectly convinced
that it would not be wise and discreet to put all sugars under
the same rate of duty. The consequence was, that though he
had announced his plan, he made the desired alteration in it.
The opinion of the late Mr. Hume, on which much weight
should be placed, was, that there ought to be three scales of
duty. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, it was true, told
them that it was the opinion of the Custom-house officers that
no difference of scale could be made. Well, he (Mr. Baring)
was not disposed to place much weight on the opinions of these
gentlemen, for when they understood what the Chancellor of
the Exchequer's opinions were, they generally contrived
to square theirs accordingly. What was impossible
to-day with them might become possible to-morrow. He
held in his hand an extract from the American tariff, and
there he found that the duties were divided into three classes.
Nearly the same system prevailed in Holland. 'He felt bound
to say that he thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer ge-
hayed extremely fair in his statement regarding the revenue.
He entirely agreed with him in thinking that there would be a
considerable loss in the falling off in the revenue, but he knew
it would be only temporary, and felt confident that the revenue
would recover itself in the course of next year. He regretted
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not based his system
on a more definite and permanent principle. The Chancellor
of the Exchequer said that there would be a reduction of
800.000/. by the reduction of colonial sugar, and they would get
2111,00 tons of sugar in addition to what was at present re-
ceived. By this additional 20,000 tons we get back 600,000/.
of revenue, so that there was only a loss of 200,000/.—sa very
small risk when compared with the good it would certainty
effect for the colonies. Mr. Huskisson was a careful, steady
man, yet in 1829 he proposed a reduction on colonial sugar
to 275., and foreign sugar to 665. On that occasion Mr. Hue-
kissers was met by the argument of the reduction of the
revenue. The change was made, and it was anticipated that
542,000/. would be lost, but there was not one-half of that sum
lost. He hoped and believed the reduction of the Right Hon.
Gentleman would be attended with all the success anticipated
by him.
Mr. GLADSTONE said the Right Hon. Gentleman had
(and he was not surprised at it) sought to distract the atten-
tion of the House from the real question under the considera-
tion of the House. The Right Hon. Gentleman talked
fluently of frauds and certificates of origin, but they had
nothing whatever to do with the motion of the Hon. Member
for Bristol. The great charges against the Government were
that they disturbed and unsettled public mind and left the
colonies to the chance of the future. Now the fact was the
Government could nut have made a final settlement of the
sugar question at present—the consideration of the income-tax
alone was sufficient to prevent a decisive arrangement.
He did not think it would be justice to the country to agree to
the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman. If they did so, they
would take a short-sighted view of the interest of the colonial
producer. He granted that they had no reason to suspect that
there would be a deficiency of supply, if they measured the
supply by the supply of former years. But was the demand
likely to be the same as in former years ? Had there not been
a great change in the state of the country? Now what was
the state of the market for the four months during which the
sugar duty remained in a state of uncertainty—that was
the four months which elapsed before the declaration of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer ? If they compared the prices
of the four months of this year with the corresponding four
months of the last year, they would find an average rise of
41 in the prices of the present year. He therefore said
that they might fairly expect a scarcity this year. A gentle-
man named Ripley, with a deputation from Liverpool, had
waited upon him (Mr. Gladstone) upon this subject, and lie
stated that the measure of the Government would have the
effect of reducing the price of sugar lid. per pound, taking
the prices then ruling. He would beg the House to remem-
ber that this year the Gasetted average price was higher than
it was last, when it was known that the measure which vi as to
be proposed would not be a permanent one. One great object
of the proposal of the Government was to so arrange
as to be a great benefit to the consumer. The Go-
vernment had been induced to propose this measure
from a sense of the great evils attending an absolute state of
uncertainty. This Bill went to create a permanence in this
great branch of our commerce. It would establish the duty
which was to he imposed upon sugar the produce of slavery,
and the sugar the produce of free labour, and also to fix the
amount of protection to the colonists, which was to be main-
tained. He complained that the measure of his Hon. Friend
the Member for Bristol would have a most injurious effect on
1 the trade in sugar in this country. He asked his Hon. Friend
the Member for Bristol whether the reduction which he
proposed in British Plantation sugar was to be a permanent
arrangement ? He would take the answer either one way or the
other. Did his Hon. Friend contemplate a further reduction
in the duty next year ? If he did, then what became of his
argument respecting the permanent settlement of the question ?
If he did not contemplate a further reduction in the duty, then
he (Mr. Gladstone) said that his Hon. Friend was not just
to the colonists in the protection which he imposed,
nor was he just to the consumer in this country.
The Hon. Member for Bristol had not given any reason for
re-opening the question of those duties at a future time. Re-
ference had been made in the course of the debate to a letter
which was published that day ( Friday) in the Times newspaper.
That letter was written by a gentleman who had long been
connected with the West 'lndies. But that Gentleman had
assured him this day, that although he disapproved of the pro-
position of the. Government, he would prefer it to the measure
of the Hon. Member for Bristol. He did not object so much
to the principle of classification as to the mode of classification
proposed by .his Hon. Friend the Member for Bristol. Accord-
ing to the present law great injustice was done to the producers
of inferior sugar of British colonies. The distinction proposed
by Hon. Gentlemen opposite would operate most injuriously
on the colonies. lie thought that the measure of the Govern-
ment was the best that could be proposed, and he called on the
Committee to support it.
Mr. M. GIBSON (who rose amidst loud cries of " Divide,
divide") said that he had come down to the House disposed to
vote for the motion of the Hon. Member for Bristol, but, on
examining more carefully the terms of the motion, and looking
to its objects, he found that the object of the Hen. Member,
and of those who supported him, was to give the West Indies '
a protection of 14s. per cwt. A gentleman in the City, who
was, well acquainted with the subject, told him that he (Mr.
31. Gibson) was not "awake to the trap" for the free traders.
—( A laugh.) When he saw the anxiety of the West India in-
terest to oppose this proposition, he looked on with suspicion.
—( Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances, regarding as he
did, that both the propositions before the House contained.the
principle of protection, but believing that the measure of the
Government went further in the direction of free trade than
did that of the Hon. Member for Bristol (Mr. Miles), he
should certainly give his support to that of the Government.
Mr. HOME said that his own opinion was, that the mea-
sure wouid greatly assist trade, and that, say what they might,
or do what they might, there would be no pro-
hibition
to slave-grown sugar. Indirectly it would
be admitted. Indeed, his opinion was, that there '
would be a very considerable addition to the supply of sugar.
Slave-grown and free-grown sugar would get into the market
alike. But what the House ought to consider was not the
interest of the West Indian planter, or any of the many inte-
rests that had been referred to in the course of the debate,
but the interest of the consumer. That was the only light in
Which they ought to look at the question. The plan of the
Hon. Member for Bristol he (Mr. Hume) did not hold to be
a good one. But a good sound plan never would be got
until they changed their plan altogether. During the time

he (Mr. Hume) had been in that House, he had witnessed
thee attempts to make discriminating duties, but they had
till failed. Under the plan of the Government there would
be a large supply 6T smear from America, and the consumer
was certain almost immedidtela to have a benefit of one half-
penny per pound in the price of sugar.
Mr. COLQUHOUN said that whilst the criende of the
Government plan trusted that by it the consumers would haie
their sugar at a halfpenny per pound less, it ought also to be
knowe that by the plan of his Hon. Friend the Member for
Hristots the reduction to the consumer in the price of his sugar
would be one penny: The Right Hon., Gentleman had
strangely enough stated that this year's supply of sugar must
be looked upon 23 a decreasing one, whereas it would turn out
to be an increasing one. The stock of sugar was greater now
than it had been previously known to be. We had a stock at
the present moment of 40,000 tons, and yet this was the time
selected for the introduction date Government measure, and for
the singular statement in support of it made by the
Right flare. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
It had been said that the rod was over them; but they were
driven by the rod of steles necessity. They could not go
beyond the amount of duty named by the Government. He
heel heard nothing in the arguments of either of his Hon.
Friends that induced him to change his resolution to vote for
the amendment at the Hon. Member for Bristol.—( Hear.)
Mr. ESTCOTT said he knew that many West India pro-
prietors had been ruined. He knells also, that it was the duty
of the Government to apply a remedy to their ease. They
had been reduced to this condition under a prohibitory system,
and he wished to ask the Hon. Member for Bristol whether he
thought his proposition -would be the cure for the condition in
which they were placed ? (Divide, divide.)
Dr. BOWRING rose amid loud cries of "Divide." He
said they had a right to take the benefit of the declaration of
the Hon. Member for Bristol, that he did not mean to aue-
ment the amount of protection; but it was perfectly clear that
a duty of 103. upon 20s. was a somewhat greater amount than
10s. upon 245. He felt a great disposition to support his Hon.
Friend, because a reduction of duty would tend to cause a re-
duction of cost.—(Hear, hear ) The amount of duty was one
of the elements of price, and whatever diminished the duty must
diminish the price of an article. At that hour of the night, and
with the House so impatient, he should not detain it, except to
inquire what the Hon. Member for Bristol, with such a re-
sponsibility resting on his shoulders, meant to do with the pro-
position of his Hort. Friend?
Mr. COLLETT said, as a free trader, he should support
the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bristol.
Mr. JAMES said he should not attempt again to move the
flinty hearts of her Majesty's Government with the bad case of
the West Indian proprietors, but he wished to make one re-
mark on something that had fallen from the Right Han, the
President of the Board of Trade. He understood him to say
that next year it was in contemplation to apply the principle
of an ad valorem duty to sugar. If he would do that he should
have his vote. He would also ask one question. Was this
foreign sugar to be brought in in foreign vessels, or was it to
be imported in what were called foreign bottoms?
Mr. GLADSTONE said it would be imported according
to the provisions of the navigation laws. Under certain con-
ditions it would be allowed to be brought in foreign vessels.
Mr. HAMPDEN said he was unwilling to enter into the
subject at all, but he was urged to it by the instinct of self-
preservation.—( Hear, hear.) He avowed at once that he had
a personal interest in thequestion.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
He did not ask them then for any deference; they might re-
ceive his arguments with all the distrust and suspicion which
attached to the opinions of an interested man.—( Hear, hear.)
As for his facts, he should only use those that were deplorably
notorious.—( Hear, hear.) He should not go into the whole
question of the policy of commercial restrictions. He should
only ask them not. to enforce them- witirgreater stringency on
the West Indies than on any other country. They must re-
member that they could not apply • the same principles now, in
their present complicated circumstances, that they could
do if they were beginning to establisn a system of trade
de novo. With the high -prices • and heavy burdens which
existed in this country, it would be impossible for them to con-
tend with other nations without • protection. They were de-
priving the West Indian interest of protection, and the conse-
quence' was that the proprietors were abandoning their estates.
If the object of the Government was to benefit the consumer,
they could effect that object by adopting the proposition of the
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Bristol, and at the same time
leave a small profit to the West India proprietors. He rose
with pain to oppose her Majesty's present Govern-
ment, but he thought their conduct relative to the
West India interest, was cruel, unjust, and tyrannical.—
(Hear, and cheers.) He had on more than one occasion
voted with her Majesty's Government against his own con-
scientious judgment.—( Great laughter and ironical cheering. )
He repeated it, and he would tell why he did so. It was be-
cause on certain important national questions the Right Hon.
Gentleman at the head of the Government could take a wider
survey of those questions than he could, and had also access to
sources of information beyond his (Mr. Hampden's) reach.
For these reasons he considered it more-prudent and patriotic
to surrender his own opinions to the Right Hon. Gentleman's
judgment.—(lronical cheers.) But there were certain ques-
tions upon which he could not vote with the Government—as
the New Poor-law and the present question.—(Cries of
" Question, question," " Sugar, sugar.") He considered
British merchants more likely to come to a sound conclusion on
this subject than any Minister, however large his comprehen-
sion. If the cheapening of sugars to the extent of a penny
were so great a boon. surely this country should contribute
something towards the national benefit.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was not one of those who blamed
the Government for having proposed an alteration in the
sugar duties. He did not think that the reasons given in
favour of these proposed alterations were so, strong as those
which had been urged in 1841 in favour of a similar motion,
but they were nearly as strong, and of a very similar character,
and, therefore, he did not blame the Government for having
proposed the alteration—( ear. )—but he did think that the
manner in which they had brought the proposition forward, the
nature of the proposition itself, and the proposal that another
alteration should be made next year, had introduced great dif-
ficulties into the question.—( Hear, hear.) With re- i
gard to• -The question before the House to-night they
had to consider the proposition of the Government,
on the one hand, and the proposition of the Hon. Member for
Bristol on the other. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade, following the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, had shown that the great objection to the proposi-
tion of the Hon. Member far Bristol was the evil that must
follow from the reduction of the duty not taking place before
November. No doubt some evils would follow from that pro-
position, but they were the inevitable results of the manner in
which the proposition of the Government had been brought
forward. If that proposition had been similar to all former
propositions of a similar nature which had been brought for-
ward for the reduction of duties, the reduction would have
taken place at once both on foreign and colonial sugar. But
the House had followed the guidance of the flight Hon
Gentleman opposite, and had adopted the proposition of
the Government, and made a distinction between free
labour and other sugar, and the Hon. Member for Bristol.
had, consequently, been obliged to frame his proposition accord-
ing to that decision. Having so framed it, it appeared clear
that the reduction would not be less than 9s. The reduction
of duty proposed by the Hon. Member for Bristol would give a
reduction of Id. per lb. on sugar more, which would be a great
advantage to the consumer, and on that single ground he pre-
ferred the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bristol to that
of the Government.—(Cheers) But the Hon. Member for
Manchester said that the proposition of the lion. Member for
Bristol would give a greater protection to the West India interest
Now, he did not think that the proposition would give any
greater advantage to the West India interest than the proposi-
tion of the Government. He did not think that the Hon. Mena
ber for Manchester was well founded in his facts. The Right
Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had stated
the subject with great fairness ; he had stated that the protec-
tion given by the Right Hon. Gentleman's proposition,
and that given by the proposition of the Hon. Member for
Bristol was equal; therefore, in point of protection, the two
propositions were equal-Lthere was no superiority of protection
afforded by the proposition of the Hon Member for Bristol.
—( Hear, hear.) His Right Honourable Friend the Member
for Taunton had stated that the sugar imported from Siam,
Java, and Manilla would, in general, be brown sugar, and not
white clayed sugar, which was imported from Brazil and Cuba,
aid the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board
of Trade had assented to that statement. It would be of little
advantage to add anything to the authority of the said state-
ments, but the returns of te imports of sugar into the United
States from Siam, as published in the newspapers, showed that
the sugar from that country was chiefly brown, and not
clayed sugar. It would, therefore, follow that there could be
no great advantage in the way of protection in the 14s.
as compared with the 10s. duty. If, therefore, only the sugars
of Java, Manilla, and Siam, were admited, there would be
nothing gained in the shape of protection by the adoption of
the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bristol ; but if the
clayed sugars of Bristol and Manilla were to come in, then, in-
deed, it might make a difference. On the whole, he thought
the proposition of the 11(m. Member for Bristol was more ad-
vantageous to the consumer, and,therefore,he should support it.
The great advantage gained by the proposition of the Hon.
Member for Bristol was, that it would increase the consump-
tion. The Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board
of Trade said it was impossible to consider this question in a
large and cdmprehensive manner, because it would be necessary
in that case this year to consider the question of the income-
tax. It would be very desirable that the House should know
whether or no they meant to continue the income-tax,
and he saw no just reason why they should not
state it. The present proposition created great alarm
among the sugar growers, and it was calculated to prevent
capital from being employed—to diminish the energies neces-
sary to well-directed enterprise, and had already produced
great disturbance in the market. He saw no reason why the
whole system should not be considered and finally settled this
year. He did not say that the proposition of the Hon. Member
was a perfect settlement of this question, but in the difficulties
in which the House was placed, he considered it preferable to
the Government proposition, and should vote for it.
Captain BERKELEY would support the Government pro-
position.
Mr. MILES replied. In answer to a question of the Right
Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade, he
would say that he did not intend his proposition, if carried into
effect, should be permanent.
Captain GLADSTONE then rose, but was not at all
audible in the gallery.
• Mr. RICARDO rose, but was met with loud cries of
" Divide, divide," and great uproar.
Captain BERKELEY--4f this debate is not allowed to go
on, I shall move the adjournment.—(Uproar.)
Mr. RICARDO said that before he could support the amend-
ment of his llon. Friend he wished to know whether his Hon.
Friend would be willing to give up the 45., for if he did not
consent to do so the amendment., in point of fact, would be to
establish a differential duty of 14s. per cwt.—( Great uproar. )
Lord HOW ICK rose amidst great uproar, and said I only
rise to explain to my Hon. Friend that he is in a mistake as
to the form we now are about to vote. The Hon. Gentleman
has moved certain substitutions for the clause as proposed by
her Majesty's Government, and the question will now be put
that the words proposed to be left out stand part of the question ;
and if we have a majority on the first question and negative the
Government proposition, it will then be competent for any
Hon. Gentleman who wishes to propose an amendment on
the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bristol, to move to
leave out any part of that proposition.. The question, there-
fore, upon which we are how to vote is not the adoption of the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Bristol, but aye or no,
will you, or will you not negative the plan of her Majesty's
Government. As I believe that plan to be a bad one, I
shall
vote against it, but I am not pledging myself to adopt the
amendment of the Hon. Hernber for Bristol without alteration
or substitution.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. The Committee
then divided, when the numbers were—
For the original motion
Against it
MAJORITY AGAINST TILE GOVERNMENT ......
The announcement of the result was received with tre-
mendous cheering.
Sir R. PEEL said-that the Dissenters' Chapel Bill was fixed
for Monday next, but he thought that the resolution of this
night was of so much importance that the Committee should
take precedence of the other business.
THE SALMON FISHERIES BILL.

of the Committee, and particularly objected to the orni3si°n
of the name of Mr. Foster.
After some discussion the following gentlemen
(with the c 1
dition of Mr. Foster) were nominated as the Committee •;
Mr. Lyall, Mr, Gladstone, Viscount Sandon, Mr. Aaron OW
man, Sir William Clay, Mr. Liddell, Mr. Bingham Baring.
Mr. Stuart Wortley, Captain Gladstone, Mr. Hutt, Mr. Tho!i
Ba
Barclay ring, Mr. Ross, Mr. Dennistoun, Mr. Wawn, and Mr. Da"

CANAL COMPANIES.
On the motion of Mr. GLADSTONE, leave was given to
t°
bring in a Bill to empower canal companies to vary their tolls'
rates, and charges on different parts of their navigation&
fr
Mr. JAMES moved for a return of the quantity of h°ni
made sugar, from potatoes or other things, upon which an
cise duty has been paid, in the years 1841, 184, and Prli."
respectively ; together with the amount of duty paid thereon,
and in what manner that duty was ascertained.—Agreed
Mr. FRENCH moved for some returns from the Ecele.
fiastical Commissioners of Ireland.—A.reed to.

CUSTOMS FRAUDS.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER, the following Members were nominated a Selee
Committee on Evidenco taken before the Revenue Commis;
sinners : —Mr. Pringle, Mr. Wallace, Mr. Trotter, Colonel
Rolleston, Mr. Hume, Mr. Henley, and Mr. Tufnell.
The House then adjourned at a Quarter to Two.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
(YESTERDAY.)
MA IV SION-HOUSE.
A case of smuggling came on which exposed an odd
system of imposition.
Martin M' Donald and William Debois, - the latter an
Irishman, with a countenance very like that
foreigner, were charged under the following circum-
stances.
A Custom-house officer stated that as he wa:
walking along the Minories, the prisoner Debois ad
•
dressed him in a confidential tone, and invited him
into the Horse and Trumpet public-house, in the
Old Jewry, to see some cigars which had been
smuggled, and were to be had at a low Ole'
He accompanied Debois, who introduced him t°
M'Donald, up stairs in the public-house, and there were
exhibited to hint a quantity of cigars. and some shawlis
end handkerchief-, which the defend •nts said had been
smue-gled. They also stated that they had a vessel lyieg
at Blackwell, in which immense quantities of smuggled
goods were stowed away, consisting of teas, brandies,
'hawk, hankerchiefs, and tobacco. A seizure of the
tobacco was subsequently made, and some shawls of
English manufacture were also taken by the officer °f
the revenue.
Coleby A. Davis, an extremely active revenue office!'
stated that, in consequence of the information which he
re..eived from the first . witness, he proceeded to th°,
public-house and seized the tobacco, the defendant OA
being licensed to sell the article. They were license'
hawkers, and, therefore, they were at liberty to sell the:.
shawls and handkerchiefs they exhibited, which were
English manufacture, but in ord--r to get three or four
times as much as was the value of the goods, it was,!'„e
practice of such persons to pretend that the articles tin
had to dispose of were contraband. Many people, Itild °t
the higher classes too, opened their mouths the moloe-
they heard the word " smuggled" mentioned, in the be"
lief that they would get a capital bargain by clealijg
with such adventurous persons, and they were regular );
humbugged. When witness went to the public-house t,
make the bargain he saw a highly respectable gentlemans;
who lodged at the London Coffee-house, doing busine
in the cigar way with 111‘Donald, and who, the m0n313
he knew that witness was about, ran off with all imaglll-
able speed, 45
*Donald asked the first witness whether the sho' ?
and handkerchiefs were shown to him as foreign goods
—The witness replied that they were.
M'Donald said that was quite impossible, as he eni.lici
e
prove .that he had purchased them on Thursday morn
%
at the warehouse of a gentleman who resided near t°
Mansion-house.—(Laughter.) are
The LORD MAYOR—That's the very thing we a.
convinced of. You purchased these for five or six shay
lings each for the purpose of selling them for fifteen
sixteen.
M'Donald—But I purchased them after the witness
says he saw them with me.
The LORD MAYOR—You might have exhibited f°l.o
sale•the exact patterns of these easily enough. I 11,i
3,
no doubt that you succeed extensively in the traps ,„
thus lay for the lovers of smuggling, and they certaluly
are nto be itied. of
C. Aot .
Davis p
called forward a tailor, of the wont ehe
Nicholas Rosa, who produced two shawls, which bat

stated he had purchased of M'Donald for 21. 4s. 6d-,,
which, upon being submitted to the judgment of a 56:
keeper, were pronounced to be worth at most ss. e
each. The cigar gentleman wanted him to purch3:4
cigars also, but he declined, and he thought lie had V
an excellent bargain in the shawls.
M'Donald—My Lord, I am a regular hawker an
pedlar.
The LORD MAYOR—No doubt of it; and you altt,l'Et;
that occupation auxiliary to this pretence, that )u
smuggle- silk and other articles of the kind from Fraar,ee
•
But the direct charge against you is, that you had the'
:cigars for sale without being licensed.
111. Donald—There, I confess, I have been an sggressor'
but I intended to take out a license, as I can Prne:
Alter all, my Lord, it is doing in a little way whaling
lone by high tradesmen in a great way. It is gettl"'
shillings where people in Regent-street get pounds. f
The LORD MAYOR—At all events we have a case of •
having cigars for sale without a license instituted again"
you, and fine you 251.
M‘Donald—l can't pay it, my Lord. lam as poor eg
a ehnrals-mouse.
The LORD MAYOR—Then you must go to prison for
three months, to hard labour.
Debois—But you don't mean anything of that
kind
for me, your Lordship?
The LORD MAYOR—Certainly I do. You must Pal
the fine, or go to prison too.
Debois —Why neither the tobacco nor shawlswelt
mine ; I was surely not so bad as the other. j
The LORD MAYOR—I can make no distinction•
cannot by the Act of Parliament inflict a smaller peruati'
The defendants were then committed to prison.
are
It appears that enormous quantities of cig-ars
manufactured in London from the very worst badccau
and sold at a guinea or twenty-two shillings fl
foreign cigars ; that hogsheads of the cut-throat stch
called British brandy is sold as smuggled Frei) r,
brandy, and that British gip, of very inferior qua, by
upon which the flavour of the juniper is removeaug.,
aniseed, is passed off upon those who encourage smile
filers in Hollands by fellows like the defendants. jj dot
above case, the ladies and gentlemen were assure be
the goods they were invited to purchase had
brought over, as bales of wool, in a yacht.
CLERKEN WELL. • 60'
William Neale was brought up for final exa.talns the
charged with wounding Mr. Osman, landlord o' to
Red Lion public-house, Cow-cross, so seriously ,e„Ge,
endanger his life. The prosecutor was in attends
and seemed to be suffering the most intense angaish,;iglA
potin
The evidence went to prove, that on SundaY ;wee
last the prisoner was behaving in a disorderly 110
at the bar of the Red Lion. The landlord desired le.
to leave. The prisoner refused, and became roost
lent. The landlord attempted to expel him, w"ltho,
prisoner, with an oath, declared he would " hurt tor
and had no sooner done so than he kicked the prose all
twice in a delicate and vital part of his person wit 0.
his might. The landlord fainted from excess of 13_,Its
One of the blood-vessels in the region of the bladder ;01
ruptured, and profuse hemorrhage took place.
since then been confined to his bed.
re 004,
Dr. Joshua Verily, of Stamford-street, s"'°,— tooPl
when he arrived the prosecutor was suffering "(3e too
excruciating pain from the injury, and was for sottl,,,,her
in danger. Had the blows been struck an inch P`b

death Would probably have ensued
The prisoner was committed for trial.
William Harris, the driver of the metropolitan srior;
carriage, No. 334, belonging to Mr. Hedge_, and w truck,
the badge 3,341, was charged with overturning*
containing 216 bottles of ginger beer, and so doo3gjog
by,
the property of a poor costermonger, named gull)
to the amount of 14 1 ls. 10°
It appeared, from the evidence of Mr. Cameron,t 00
attended on behalf of the Marquis of Anglesey, thn,cliag
Saturday evening last, the Marquis's carriage was,..„(tri'tneo
down Holborn, towards the 131ftekwall railway• " were
and the Marquis were in the carriage. The cbed
driving at a very slow pace, and when they bad defend'
Fulwood's-rents, where the street is narrow, the u,,c
ant, in attempting to. drive his omnibus before forced
riage, pressed upon the wheel of the latter, an„.(!ectod•
it against the truck, whereby the damage was eu
oviog
Other evidence, confirmatory of the above, lily, the
been tendered, the defendant was obliged to F 1
amount of the damage and the costs.

atBIRTHS.so
Southampton-street,
ham
On the 11th inst., i vim'
Mrs. R. G. Hennell, of a son. e vdscilr'
Onl2th •
the inst., at Cadogan- lace, the lady "` —te,s.
pton-strect, 13'°-- 1
M‘'Malion, Esq., of a son who survived but a few miou'ort.
On the 12th inst at Camberwell,Mrs. G. Biller, 0f a grS'
y
On the 12 1 ' t i inst., in South-street, Grosvenor-s 4
1. W. Capron, of a daughter. ,i of J°llll
On ,
~ tht, 12th inst., at Coekspur-street, the la-y,
Eisenberg, Esq., of a son. tersbire'
On the 12th inst.. at Fretherne Rectory, Glouces
the lady of the Rev. W. L. Darell, M.A., of a daugliterA Oa
r the lady u
On the 13th inst., at Surrey P ' ' aitonat,e, of
Rev •
On them •
. Jaes Sherman, of a daghter.
12th inst., at Carltonu Villas, Maida-vale, the lady
- .1,
A. Mendes, Esq , of a daughter. 31P.
On the 12th inst in King-street, C -ento-arden•
~
C. Stevens, of a son. --------

HA RRIED. .rig
On the 11th inst., at Ockly, the Rev. William Cotoli . e
M.A., to Charlotte Havdon);' daughter of John Sinallpiec ,
Esq., of Leith Hill-place, near Dorking, Surrey. 1%11005
On the 12th inst., at St. John's, Wa png, William - Aida,
Phillips, Esq., of Trosnant Lodge,P-Polltypool, to -,---- 1
daughter of the late W. Maud, Esq lliairo,
On the 13th inst., at Surrey Chap. el, Mr. Walter Wl fgr.
of Nelson-square, to Harriet Eliza, youngest daughter ot
J. Newsom, of High-street, Southwark. -------
---

DIED. south
On the 20th of January. at Bronti. Bung,onia, Se".:„.
Wales, Mary Anne, the wife of W. F. Baker, Esq., 11.1 ',Lrr ..1.
On the 26th ult., at Dover, Mrs. A. C. Lea, relict oi 0-` '
tear, late of Milton, Gravesend. t— of
R.Ouno
ptle)
re, 3Edsqi I.,at
Roscommon,l,'rankoirrti:loatitte- Main,
A 67.
On the Sth inFt., at Greenwich, Mr. I. Piper, Age—
On the 9th inst., at Brompton, A. J. Jellicoe, Esq. on of
On the 11th inst., William Tennant Harrison, eldest s
R. Harrison, Esq., of Doughtr:street. ,inner,
On the 11th inst., Bridget, the wife of Mr. Daniel Si+.
of Sebbon's-buildings, Islington. 66.
Eliza, 'olio
aged „ (iss
On the 12th inst., at Clapton, Mr. W. Wilson,
On the 12th inst., at Prospect-place, Edgeware-road, I'
j Mary Cook, aged 81.
On the I3th inst., at Uexley, Emma, youngest daughter of
Mr. Firmin, of the Strand, London.

• 221
241

The House having resumed,
The Salmon Fisheries (Scotland) Bill, alter a brief csn-
versation between Mr. Warburton, Mr. ,Drummond, and the
Lord Advocate, passed through Committee;
COMMERCIAL MARINE COMMITTEE.
Mr. HAWES, in resuming the discussion on the nomina-
tion of this Committee, complained of the partial complexion

Loridon: Printed and Published by MURDO AOL.- 112,
No. 112, Strnud, Printer, at The Sun Offee, ,•`°
I.:YeanlY t
Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the
aiddlodes, Saturday, June 15, 1844.