The Sun.
London, England, 1819-07-10 00:00:00

SATURDAY, JULY 10, 1819.

MR. "OWEN'S PLAN.

At a„Meetiugof a number of Members:of both':
Houses of Parliament, and others, reqUested to
attemtat the Freemasops'Tavero, tit one o'clock, •
on Thursday, the Bth of July, by Mr. OWEN,
take his plan into consideration;
Ilk Royal Highness the Duke of KENT, iu.the
chair, opened the business. .
Mr. OweN begged to submit to the
rleet-
irtg the -present state—of the Pritrr, that trt-uCli
might be done for their benefit, and that -he,had to
propose a plan for assembling a certain number of
it,dividuals together, in a sort of small, village or
extensive poor-house, the model of r:hich he ex-
hibited on the table ; that these people tied their
families might be supported by collecting a cer-
tain capital, and obtaining a certain quantity of
waste Lend, on which by their labour, it' might be
Usefully employed :" !reasserted, that whoever ad-
vanced eepital would, fin.d.-ia, l_tighls_profiteblee-and-*
that both !he pour would be employed, whilst the
opulent got occupation fot their capital, by bring-
iog into coltivat ion poor and waste land, which
otherwise would remain wholly
Mr. RtcA err°, M. P., s rid, he could by no
means egret: in opinion with Mt. OWen, as to a
capital being supplied by a certain number of
persons to be employed in the manner suggested.
It was quite absurd to suppose it could ever make
an adequate return ; by an ~dequate return, he
meant a return affording an interes equal to what
might be obtained by enipleyittg it in any other
manner; as to any benefit that could arise to the
poor in general, lie thought it more likely on an
extensive scale to produce evil Ilan good, and on
no account would he sanction such a scheme, un-
less it were paoved to him, tat an adequate re-
turn &cult' be made for the capital laid out, and
a proportionate benefit would accrue to the' com-
munity.
Mr. RowceoeT began by stating, that all new
plans were sore to mevt with opposition, and this
one of Mr. Owen's would, it was probable, have
a similar tate. He had noticed what strong op-
position at the time had been made to the Gas-
tight Company ; from all quarters objections had
arisen ; it had been held out to the country as a
visionary scheme, and those forwarding the tnea-
sure had been treated with ridicule and contempt:
he (Mr. Rowcroft), however, was not to be de-
tented by the general opinion, but had persevered
in recommending the formation of the Gas-light
Company, and, after fifteen years' t oil and
anxiety, he was happy to say it was brought
tr, a successful end, and had been most advan-
tageous to the City•of London and the Country.
in the same manner this plan of Mr. Owen's, or
any other new plan. was certain to meet with pp-,
position from ignorance ci-r preitnlice'; but be would
advise Mt. Owen not to be deterred, •but to persist
manfully. When once his plan was generellyknown
and adopted, such ,could be the eagerness of indi-
viduals to forward the measure, that there would
not be re per enough in London to contain the
names of the subscribers and promoters of it. The
present was the fullest and most respectable Meet-
ing that had hitherto takeu place on the subject,
and it was therefore incumbent on his Royal High-
ness the Chairman to proceed to move some reso-
lutions on the subject to carry it fully into effect,
and then no further difficulties would. occur.
Atter some more observations, the Chairman,
his Royal Highness, observed, it seemed the sense
of the Meeting, that the plan proposed by Mr.

- -
Owen should be adopted ; when
Mr. MAoKniNot.7, M.P., said, be had attended
in consequence of the honour done him in ap-
pointing hint one of the Committee : he had
heard little of the plan before be entered the
room, but from the explanations given, and thy
model exhibited, there was no doubt it could ne7
ver succeed as a measure of general benefit to the
poorer classes. It had been well observed by
Mr. Malthus, that population was pressing too
closely on the means of subsistence ; now, this
plan of Mr. O.'s, were it generally adopted, would
act as a bounty on population, by encouraging the
increase of those who were to be provided for
in the manner recommended by Mr. Owen, but
unless it_comprehervied the whole of the pauper
populations, which was itnpossibe, it was in tact
encouraging a few at the expence of the rest, and
leaving the mass of the population in a worse
state than before, by lavishing the means of the
charitable and n
we.. disposed on a few instead of
the whole. Capital expended in bringing very
had laud into cultivation was laid out (unless it

made an adequate retur►►) inn manner injur►ous
to the community, as it was prevented from► truing
employed elsewhere to more advantage. How-
ever, there could be no harm► in trying Mr.
Owen's plan on a very moderate scale, it being
understood by those making advances that it was
done from charitable motives only, and not from►
the idea of obtaining an adequate return.
His Royal Highness the Duke of KENT then
put the question, and it was determined that the
plan should be tried on a moderate scale as a
charitable experiment ; that 100,0001. should be
subscribed to he laid out by the direction of the
Cononittee ; and that a general meeting of all
well-disposed persons should be appointed for
Monday, the 19th of July, to receive subscrip-
tions, and carry the proposed measure into effect.

This morning an alarming fire broke out be-
tween two and three o'clock, at a house the corner
of Luker-street, Sun Tavern, St. George's-fields,
in the East, which soon consumed the interior,
besides damaging the adjoining houses. By the
speedy arrival of engines the flatues were pre-
vented front doing further misc:lief ; bqpily no
lives were lost.

PARLIAMENT.

fibusE OF CORDS, JULY 9.

Tile Lord Chancellor and Lord kifdesdale de-
livered their opinions in the Queensberry case
against the Leases.--Judgment to-morrow.

The Still Fines .(Ireland) Bill and others, were
tef4a third time and passed. •
, The. Insolvent Debtors'
,(Iceland) Bill-was read
a second time, the commitment negatived, and
the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-
morrow.
The Charitable 'Funds' 'Bill pa'ssed through a
Committee, and was reported without Amend-
ment, after a few words from the Earl of Ross-
Lvst,, stating that nothing personal could. have
been intended towards the -Lord Chancellor, in
.14‘4904,ekti.7,-&oving the former and. front
`Chao CHANCELLOR, who disclimed any feel-
ing of that nature, stating that the idea was ori-
ginally suggested by himself:

The Inolvent Debtors' Bill, the Assessed Taxes'
Relief Rill, the Plate Glass Bill, the New South
Wales Ditties' Bill, and others, passed through
Committees, and were reported without Amend•
!mot.

The" Bankrupt Laws' Amendment Bill and the
Bankrupt Regulation Bill were postponed for
three months, on the motion of Lord AUCKLAND,
on the ground of the impossibility of going into
rn inquiry upon this subject duriug,the pres►n:
Session. He trusted, however, that, in the next
Session, the subject would be reironed at an early
period.
The LORD CHANCELLOR regretted that these
Bills h►►d com►e up too late to'allow of their being
taken into consideration, the subject being of too
mlich importance not to require. great care and
deliberation. There were undoubtedly several
usetul clauses in these Bills ; but there' were
others which he thought very objectionable'.

On the motion of Lord AUCKLAND, a Message
was ordered to he sent to the House of Commons,
requesting Copies of the 11,-”ors' of CommitiecS
respecting the Bankrupt •I''u

•
The Marquess of LANSDAlVijgc''llfteriCitiliiZ.
that. a • Report from the Commifte:l ou Prisons
was likely to:be made on Monday, moved an Ad-
dresi to the Prince Regent, praying for 2et-nrns
of Commitments, &c. (the same as last year), to
be laid before the Hol=e on the commencement of
the next Session of Parliament, or as soon after
as convenient.--Ordered,