The Sun.
London, England, 1817-06-06 00:00:00

THE LATE sPEAKEtt.

fiord CA,STLEREAG4 ObSerVeti, that in taking
precedence of another notice of an lion. General
(Thornton), which st"ull limit upon the paper, he
wits actuated by a-n anxiety which, lie was sure,
accorded with the impatience of the House to
disch.rge that debt of public and private grati-
tude which they owed lii the,.excellent indiehlual
who had lately filled the chair.--r(Hear, hear
To whatever extent the liberality of the House
might lead them in conferring another sort of re-
ward, he felt satisfied that nothing would prove
more grateful to the feelings of their late Speaker
than the unmixed tribute of affectionate gratitude
which he. anticipated on this occasion. Ste per-
fectly was the House agreed upon the merits ,of
which he now proposed to call for a more formal
acknowledgment, that it was onneeessaryfor bins
to say any thing with the _view of an a4ilitional
inducement to it to join with him its the vote of
thanks which lie shook{ conclude with molting..
It costld not have escaped the. attention of. the
House, that through a long.courae of service, in an
office of the greatest difficulty, and duriug this umst
eventful period in the history of this-country, the
eminent individual.in question bad discharged the
daties of his high station with a zeal and ability
which commanded universal admiration:---(Hear,
bear !)--7For the larger portion of the last fifteen or
sixteen years the country had been engaged in a
most arduous contest', and had likewise' taken a
'start in prosperity, which ndded, independently of
business connected with the war, an infinite num-
ber of subjects which called for the deliberate
consideration of that House. The immense ex-
tent to4hich enclosures
,had been carried, re-
csiTioitiwesokinetanea- }.vi ist>rrive regulatOn, altl
the constant exercise of vigilance on the part of
the Chair, had rendered that branch of his duties
tenfold more laborious than to any of Ili prede-
cessors. Ha would 'not attenipt lest if should
weaken the Impression
.111044 engraven on every
heart, to describe the 'ability, itupartiality, and
discrimination, With he .:had uniformly
guided their Connsels anti, in' calling their at-
tension fogy a monient to another question, Deem.
wily connected with the present, he hoped the
House -wOuld dor biz icla3esty's- Government the
justice to believe, that whatever course of
proceeding might be adopted, they were desirous
that It might be such as would be Most sa-
tisfactory to 'the House and Must grateful to
the individnal concertfed. It *as' his intention,
therefore, to follow up the motion for a Vote
of Thanks, by one for an Address to the
Prince Regent, praying his Royal Highness to
confer some signal mark of his favour on the
Itight' Hon. Charles Abbott, now IlarOn COlches-
ter. He regarded the point of difference in the
two modes of proceeding merely as indicative-of
a struggle between the Crown 1;6)4 tire House who
should be fore Most in 'eottrterrilt4ireward; and
readily assented tsi that Which, was mtist%chteulated
to produce a epirit of tin He had 'only
now to ham, " That the Thanks of that House
he given to the Right Hon. CharlesAAbbot,tt,
Baron Colchester, and late Speaker of that House.

for tlfe zeal and ability with which he bad dis-
charged the ditties of that WO office during a
long and eventful period :- that he -be assured,
that the zeal and attachment to his King and the
COnititution of his country, which he had uni-
formly manifested,. togcthei• with
firmness with which he had maintained the dig-
pity and privilege. of that House, the exemplary
had gained him
the admiration of the country ; whilst his inte-
grity and unremitting attention to the business of
the House had entiled him to its' approbation,
respect, and gratitude."---/(Hear, hear !)
Lord W. RUSSELL said, it was with great re-
gret he rose to give any opposition to the present
motion, willing as he was to concur in every tri-
bute to the learning and ability of the late Speaker,
as well as to every other quality, both of his
public and private character. There was, how-
ever, a circumstance which must be still fresh in
the recollection of the [louse : he entitled to the
speech delivered at the bar of the other House on
the close of the session in the year 1813. That
speech, 'it was equally well knoirn, butt itithiced
iOSToble Friend of his. (Lord. Morpeth), in the
callousing session, Irma he b,lieved the best of mo-
tiie-so to move a vote of eettsoye on the late Speaker
for lii. enndoct. In hisjodgment,it Would be fa,
tally ininrious to the character ynid credit of the.
House, if, after 117 ot its. Members had sup=
ported-that vote of reosote, it should, only three
years afterwards, -pass an'tmanimous Vo,e of un-
qualified appmhation on the saint: individual.-7-
(Hear, hear!)---There was no one o's/ensible
ton hefore the public for ‘nch an altel'itt ion of self-,
liment.: except the 6E1111)7 lance of the Saute
peilker, who on the former Occasion hall thougla
proper to make the Crown a pity .to the /no-
evediegs'of that Home, having been' now called
by the CrOwn, for he was too Old fashioned to.
say elevated, to the Peerage.--(Hear !)--It was
not his intention to trouble the House by a diVi-
sioa ; and he could assure them, that in disturb-
fog !he unanimity of the present thotion, be was
actuated only by an over-ruling sense of duty.
Mr. C. WYNN had taken an active part in the
vote of censure alluded to by his Noble Friend ;
but he. did not think that in so long a period as
fifteen yea's of service one case of blame ought to
operate as an objection to a vote of general ap-
probation, which could never be understood as
implying an unanimous agreement with every par-
, t kniar act or opinion.--L(Hear, hear !)
Mr. Batmas agreed with the. 'observation of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, but maintained
that a large majority had sanctioned the conduct
of the late Speaker on the occasion.alluded to,
and that it was strictly justified.by precedent.
The question was then put and carried ; and,
on time suggestion,of r6.-Wynn, the thanks of the
House were ordered to• be presented to Lord Col.
cheater by the present Speaker..
Lord CASTLERRAGEI, rose ngnin to move an
humble Address to theiPrince Regent,beseeching
him to confer some signal mark of his favour on
Lord Colchester tar his great and eminent services
as Speaker; of that House; and assuring him, that
whatever might be the expense incurred, that
Hating would make good the same.
Mr. 11. SVWINER said a few words with retried
to the power ot the House to alter or enlarge the
gram tit the Crowns, •

Lord CAST4ERRAOII eXplBlllO.
Mr. l'otssotsor remarked, that the House was
already in one difficulty. and he feared the word-
ing of the.addrr ss was calculated to produce ano-
ther. The objuetion on a former day was, that
the Crown should he the first proposer of the
grant ; and they were now told that the Crows'
ought to determine the amount. He thought the
House ought not to bind itself by any previous
pledge or obligation to approve of whatever pro.
vision the Crown should think fit. The proper
course of proceeding, he apprehended, would be,
for the Crown to send doWit a message, stating the
inadequacy of its means ; and the queition of the
'due extent of liberality would Shen still rest with
the' (louse; tiat, as the address was now framed,
they surrendered all dis'Crition on the subject.
Mr!. B. 'flitHifltST said, his Noble Friend had
strictly followed the precedent established in the
case of the Speaker Onslow.
Mr. PONSOKBY remarked, that there was no
.similarity between the two cases, In that of Mr.
Speaker Onslow the Crown had the power of
granting an adequate reward out of the Civil List;'
whilst at present it had no funds at its disposal
beyond the limited pension of, 1,2001. per annum
for life.

Mr. Rosa said, the . reigninglionarch at that
time could not grant for.any louger term than fur
one life. ;.

. Mr. C. IVvrin said; the usual form of proceed-
ing oa every Message from the Crown was, either
that it should'be taken into consideration on attO•
titer day, or be referred to a Committee. With
regard to the course which had been adopted in
the present instance, the opinion of the House
might have been marked more'stroogly, if it had
been moved, that the Message shiauld be Aitken
into consideration on that day six months. A less
offensive course had, however, been puriiied. It
certainly could not he supposed that the vote of
thanks arose out of the Message from the Crown,
thongh the House could not have entered into the
subject of reward without some previous commu-
nication from the Crown. Some suggestion had
been made, whether the mention of the Message
could be entered on the Journals. , He did not
think that it could be called a direct violation of
the privileges of the House; but, at all events,
the House had discharged• their dory in marking
their sense of that Message. As to the question
of remuneration, he begged the House to remem-,
bee, that 'in cases where the Crown recommend-
ed some particular object to thstir consideration,
the House did not pledge itself to go to any cer-
tain ex,pence. For instance, where a Monument
was to be erected, and the House approved of the
measure, they were only pledged to a reasonable
extent, and not for any unnecessary expellee: So
far lie was ready to go on the present occasion ;
but be could not consent to any sum Which did
not receive the previous sanction of the House. .
Mr. Hoaxes Observed,- that-, with respect tP
what had been stated as to Mr. Speaker Unslow,
_the Crown would have' exceeded its powers by
planting a pension for. the life of another person.
By a clause in Mr. Bus ke's Bill, no pension was to
be granted I'm. -

2.500/. veatly, except to the members of bit gad I
jiaty's family, or on an Address of Parlittroent, '
Both before and after the passingof that Bill, theet
was no instance to enable .the CrOWO to 010
any express engagement without the House °di
dettak log to.make good the ex pence. Underthett
circumstances he should wish the Address lobe
made in the terms which the Noble Lord iisl
prnposed to the House. .
Mr. 'fteetatv apprehended, that If ibit.c°
tine should come to be diScitised-'sottie yttti I
hence, it would appear to have grown out ail(
Message from the Crown ; but he wat not goig,
to iliseuss that now. It did appear to 1tia1t431,..
when the grant was matte, and it might be or
immediate) •, the House wotild be Illackled 11
the amount of the pension to be given, and tolg::
have no power to diminish - it, if they thour.
proper; In the case of Mr.
015 f of
there or':
tainly must. have been some previous uteleopli
ing at to what seas to hare been the roll
tlon• He had heard several rumours with OP
to the pention . intended for Luta C°,lc,lllll '
Some personsinformed him, that the NOON
tii
sir.
vliiiislClneto
eletreantedlea:lleie:l:4bileC6°r:Wri:Satik.laYaet al[rrefie:e2l:°43Gfil'ilaiiti:ett:::l"fpnciedetprit.
ter was to be 30001.
therefore, that his A1,..i
.01 v`i 'Ministers shurdti,!.
it wool,' be iii,..4.
form the Howe ,v hat they wereTeltly onilertdlg!
for. They onght certAiiily to knot% to "I''`.`,...''''
tent
they were about to pleu6e t:i.::::','''''
(thin', heat !) , .
17 .
, we l'i ,/ ;'• • '
Tile CHANCELLOR of tae i..,iciiVa/o.‘ ~,, ,i-
P' bitell°N to state, that the ioteotioh of ilti `-:1114,
WSi it) make loot ision fur Lord ColtV,ter AA--
nmotent of ',WOOL bt-yedr wilh ti reveillon u(1/il'i
to the next licit male oflhAtit I" tk "ce tH
sPeatier.Onsiow, 30001. -Ves-r had boo et" :, !
!bee
plc:tierslg,
eh(ei,appreltencled the HousewOulti l'ai g°,01:171
it.far°tir theitiw
op re liberality
aen lives.t
i nbsYt a This.
an:ccre ge.::i ‘sll47lllYe:y3(l:39o::6l:oisfi:l;Pl"ill'u,ifiliettbsie:dtt
howevcr, to this esteet,
roost of course come under their reeisioll, 'l,l, nro,.
would then be enabled CO deliberate 00 t" I,
I"*MietrY.°?rfiginss'•itinitocilencrfared, that be 'cid n°l,lblBol3Pl*.
means satisfied with "this arrangemeete ad the
peered that they were now to note Pbe fie
claim of . a Peerages; hut it should oin
gotten that Lord Colchester was Already tile, it: '
to
to
3c51.5e,.
we
e6fdutyie4li''t;
.:*lCS:eai ie Muchlrtl:hbdai.irii o:elvtvst
watching
oda:
n,
tasei!tboegbtstx:
bieitficly:leri
:heegitaisist. offence,
cnini ohsivowacepsnaete-sail ntsY.naso_nfera
iiri
(ss:otrt. i
iipwb.:bPeoetieQlPosiacfbelo'raciisdeb,rdti hotborn°til3teettirlrigllo°ll:elri'llitiniao.tinols:o:liiierlltlici'l'el'egetrei..dls;:iiri',obs:;ks:lti!divi:ll4',lss;'tit3it''iol,ijell,sll`l,'l'l'iriff'll:4)ll,,ibitltioil'ia's:jd.°
from
:raibotiinglornangl:,taynt that af
ottni hieeeHtrt
which,ouus g
underbt
I b
el "p' rc4 e, 0
tti
curt
oli el "
~ ,„tre,.- ~a,
given. He meant nothing • vidletti by ~e bit
ocparb „
tl,e course
steh this
fel
tre lid u bil initc eltoi.tyro:l‘;
it tie
13 t . . , . . hi,
The CHANCELLOR, of the k.;°,lictie,ter 1
!ells undoubtedly true. that's,''' -:
01 ni)ll'l° .
lure,
life.---(Hear
i '
f' yea
ei'llti
(I' in
id:2 1
eo it
relt
~
)b i entering
rw eo I tru i 14: ii, lh*Pte
ofr lc*° cil
0 O.' I It'
ti(
ii t :I"' ei
l' I t'
incur
ivild etc' E
Ani, sou ice or
"hie, but which vrasonly 13e. ,ototquel „of,
ereived that cotupensat ion I" %,'ool.o.jor ' 1
having relinquished a place of 311
t Vl!'
Or ltbb°
Mr. TIERNEY asked, whether "',', lie
not sold that place /......(Hear besr"ao refu,',l,
The CHANCELLOR Ot the
riligtle:
(as we uneerstood him), No ; lig" express
Sir C. Mosrck could not refrain frolito food
►
~ osliN oughtll
:leo! this :esls;
rerslb:edi
eteelittd.et:ee:veilsaiwtihrdt Messageotatoithiv)'tisnieetledt
,rbwbtoeati• ietatrseeosnkst
fil nib,draocittvvivnitesti:eejrui:::,Cicni.:::tioiftle.rt :::oiniii)virtile).l;gl:::itisicietairoi.l:3l:lhsivnc.„.(dit:::(cilobli!.l33:l
if' 1
' Mr. P. Moon said a ienf ---r4'-' ' otos I
not distinctly hear; when the littestioP ,I I
put from the chair. that °beg'
Mr. H. SUMNER begged to observe' bad ,
Nation of Mr. Speaker Onslow, wll 1,,i,,, froldl.:
frequently referred to, differed extroo:.l heir it''
of the late Speaker. Mr. Ouslog ',.; oprorro
uture tiolo.b 0 ,
title, and to an ample fortune for,i.'coor ',lO 1
oitr.it TtobebePr3u;6otOsOlo.-fatyise:rifi:aen("l s &Pr'll're :31'
reelt
the lie , how,it/ 1
a-year mas granted for hid life', .t wo eV.,li'
never Succeeded to the title, any ' tolo't ,t
i.i sun J,
o.e
~
ten years after his death before b ' „tory lb 'i ,
The Hon*. Alember's views difPre'l4l,oo,l, All ,
other Gentlemen as to the sum of co act Oct'
hoped the House would be didrote , it, Alr.i.
same principle that bad beets etiltt 1/.4000 ,
slow's case, Mr. Foster, on coringdoo
office,of Speaker in the. Irish 000,9 .
haA 5,0001. s. ear granted to hiroseated
.froise'r 1
The- original question wad ref) , top Ode
• Chair, and carried nett. eon. it 'sl,l ~,, ilacb,P,'
that the 'address should be presentetiv ''t ouedlific,,
hers of the House as are of the Pti „lois AG `f`
SUSPENSION OF THE 11.1138 AS CV'. „, pr,,
...,,[ (I,oo' o9:'
• Lord CASTLEREAGH Pre"'''-e Otte iii
14igbned ~, a, ($
by command of his Itorll re on t"' ge
Regent, tvbiCh WerC ordered tO Ito oessdotiA
The Noble Lord then mooed that ooatiodol,
his Royal Highness, relative to o? 0 ;Olt 1
. .
of dangerous practices, be taken 'll.c
Ile .tipit
consideratiOn. sd frog' t 11101
tobretiCigssssirafetsalisilavoinngdabietle;entto:eitiert•tis.a..ll'o;liliet'sloet-ti.y:Sr:eeiiic.erililei•t_itionocCi,,r,e),.:ll:o-:,
have. to propesi, in the revs!l re)ftitienjoaset
bde•ii(
mittee, would not go to PlotiC ,
.1 if Oh op 4:
j
Opinion, or to any but
the imilly f''l4
it 311001(1 -/-1 fl 11°.
cessery to adopt ; but he
in the first ptace,,to retor 4 owl ._. 1,. ~
the Prince Regent an addres,s? 0,00 .110.,:,...
gist:haus communication ; en" to
no of
.00. 06!
,ithiethElobilit:inciviio
iutidvrtatilste:::forinie...;,noser.wrip ,
~ii emelt ~r,
ttsll9iisttnitici7cteivoornrysoi :met ri :tut it7o te ise.:byi
Eli;
0.. _ :i i a
it 0
t., i 4 a
0:
,' he trusted it would be the 'Pettus._ _ discovotiett
,I not to enter into ourtaigY
1 rm.,. umuld have ample or.
.. -
any preinatnii. for i

i

MS Alien the Report -of the Seer"
Came before them, and would see
or not any Proceedings that might be
.8,3 ki arising out of that Report, were s- '
the actual state of the country. He
leinre simply, now move an Address of
•
the usual terms. Perhaps, however,
be convenient if he ,were to state the
141 be should propose, which w4s, that
Ts be referred to a Secret Committee of
a to be immediately nominated ; and that
consist of all those Members who emi-
t' Former Committee, except such as no
;seats, as they might be more ermine-
' ay other persons to follow up the coo-
° the documents and evidence. He
'Pose as a new member the present So-
'!ral, in the room of the late Attorney-
Ile then moved the Address, which
read from the Chair,
4•KITONE said, he should take this op-
11, stating his objections to the measure
"tinn• lie felt so in unison with the
'he Petition which bad beets that
'enteal front Reading. that he was
'se no time in entreating the House to
Pre they embarked another step in mea-
i,aPpettred to bins to be totally clot rite-
ly of the subject: The probability
Suspension be continued, we ne-
get the Habeas Corpus Act again out
nil; and therefore he protested aoalnst
Ateasure shout to he adopted. lFie had
I,Seriet, .C• oreeeitee to
sot the Green Bag just pa, hut
to their doing any thing more than
exantining the papers for the con-
,' the House ; but he never would stir-
ta'm the right of determining for him.
t()! "Y there were no disturbances or
in any part of the country towards the
but the probability was that they
'4:he general distress, caused, es was
transition from war to peace. This
likely to be perm neat, and he hoped
Lord would now be ready to acknow-
't he was at least mistaken when he said
;be temporary., It ought to be con-
the whole Honqe what is the itate of
and what are the remedies, and whe-
'tate is such that the whole of the liber-
'try person in the kingdom ought to be
.(Hear, hear, hear !)
'EN should be much better pleased to
miry gone into at' large. He could see
"tn why the House should, not have a
'nye tteFie to it of the contents of this
P'rtieu srl as the trials of the persons
y
offences against the State would he
ire those contents could he examined.
=ore should have his determined opposi-
`e,.'use. he thought it inconsistent to in-
,"e restrictions on the decrease of the

I'llinn for the Address was then put and

I/
01:
:001
Ce.S'

Ie437.I,BREAGIr then moved, that the papers
Illtegented to the House, by command of
Highness the Prince Regent, be re--
It Select Committee.
'l
441):`,TONE said, he should move, as en
h'l;°'t, that the Paper* be referred to a
, to examine and arrange the same, and
9,Plibstatice thereof to the House, omit!.
'1:,111)e namett of such persons as might be
iii Aid by the disclosure.
nitiendment was negatived without a di-

71,11.._
.4
tr:li tt for they ppointment of a dommittee
hY'rll.2l Members was then put and eltried.
1-,l'll.,tion iltat the Committee hliould
.Vi .4' same Members as formed that of the
ilorwity,
k'4lq.iNti!w.Poter objected to this, as being an
Apl e refit of !be I loose. It went so far as
/, that the • s were not to be
,1,1it(1,,,.„, e other piison
t t,„ " the interests of the country. The!
Papt"nutittee WAS appointed by ballot, ant
'itt‘4 were entrusted to them ; but now
:Pe 1 W:Linatel iall different from that brought
'ltt.- "use at the commencement of the
Ititt4'4l it was the wish of Ministers, that
'4 ili„,ge4atires mig
tin- ht betaken should be limited
tint of the Session. But now they,
en
114 'led to be prolonged till the meeting of
-1. 1,, . ,or,
4 Slinit► if rumour .said trite, till
1104 'nulinent, In the event of the con-
" 1 this Bill, he should think it right
9pittioo of the House: on a clause
'l!lid absolutely limit its duration to' the
'f the present Parliament. He hoped it
°Qlltemplation to advise the Crown to
a "W erection with a sword sofilleluted
attolevery individual .in the kingdom.
ninve as an amendment, " That the
referred to a Committee to be chosen
1'
,:in' House;" and WWI it as his Wto
lit.). 'f lile of hiss Majesty's Ministers as
Ped f " itati a list of Gentlemen whom
tt,4 It Inform the Committee, which he
lid ~11) in the Chair.--.lt appeared that
~, up the list to the Chair, but the
3L4
,-,1 l'nt seconded. He thin took hack
tetitl the
names, being, he observed,
h. rt ' entletrien he thought ought to be
.....,

those of " the Chancellor of the Exchequer,—
". Cavendish, Sir C. Mordauot, Mr. W.
-144441.11 Y, the Attorney and SolicitorGnel al,
1.'04' G. Russell Mr. D. Davenport, Mr. Fane,
-Nit. Abercrorabie, Lord Altbor a, Mr. S.
-""" Lefevre Air. NV ) ,nne, Mr. Littleton of
I 134
c
"rtenay of Exeter, Mr. Wilberforce, and
-,9
tik
141111111vr noticed the inconsistency of
11(41. 11Aronet, in suggesting a ballot
,;:v°lantetnling the persons. He con-
It Ivkis no disrespect or insult to the
itarPnlefer the formir Committee, as an.'
ntee could not have the full al'ealls
er:lss%"seti, farmingfairjudgment
-ote- before 'them and of knowingll4lll4tr! tlat= tottld knoW: lie denied that
klty re,'74buttittee did form any. opinion, or
t,-14 btet”litlelidation as to the course that
`alt,t),. and the consequence was, that
ktit I%t vv" totTneti it took diffetent views
lut's that were proposed to-be ;adored

whin' they came to be 'Ariel:Stet! in the T
Re proceeded to -argoe,.that a troy Committee
would have no means of checking a contrariety of
evidence.
Mr. BRAND thought it was a most imptirtant
question to decide, tvhether the 'people were rrel-
sonably disposed against the Constitution. He.
would not enter into the geoeral question, but he,
would say, that if Ministers wished to carry the
country with them, and to gain the tonfidenee
and support of all well disposed, constitutional,
and loyal men, they would abstain from intro-
ducing into the Committee any persons whose
names were not such as would carry conviction of
the necessity of the conclusion they might come to.
Mr. tiARHAM took a view of the different periods
when similar measures were deemed necessary:be-
fore, particularly at the conimencement of the
late war, nu. which occasion, he contended, the
circumstances of the country, and the dangers to
be apprehended from Ole proceedings of the.disal-
feeted, were totally different froM what they were
At . present. , He strongly deprecated the .wish to
continue the. Suspension of the Habeas Corpus
Suipelisiyn vierc to last during the
election of Parliament, he would ask, could it be
called an election, or wonbl it be Parliament
(Hear, hear, hear!)--Might not any Metnber who
chase to utter his opinion be imprisoned as long
as the Minister ellitsei: What remedy would lie
have ? Jo surrendering this liberty, we, in fact,
surrendered the House of Commons 4 but he
trusted, far different proofs would he afforded
from. what, bad yet .heen advanced, before the
House-a:66ld consent to su'cli a sacrifice as would
surrender the constitutiou into the hands of
sisters. He would almost entreat Ministers to
reconsider the subject, and to adept some course
that would better satisfy the people.

Mr. W. SMITH thought. a wrong decision had
been come to by the late Committee on the idol..
motion laid before it, and was iheretore
to send any new papers betore the same Tribunal.
With respect to the place with which he Was coir.
nected, he was sure an *ironer decision had taken
place in the Lords' Committee, and he did not
kitow that any evidence but that on which their
Report was founded had been submitted to the
COmmittee of the House of Commons. The ,
Steward of. Norwich, a very' respectable Ma-
gistrate, who usually 'takes the chair at the
Sessions in the absence of the Recorder, had re-
quested him to state to the House, that the Grand
Jury had. keen charged to inquire if there Were, or
had' been, any seditious or blasphemous societies,
A. very careful inquiry was in coeseqUence set on
foot, and the result of it he begged to letid•
then read the Preset.tment made by the Grand
Jury (which has been published), in which they
declare it to be their opinion, that no such so-
cieties had existed in that city. On this Present-
ment being made, the Steward discharged the
Grand Jury, declaring, that in his opinion t
City of Norwich must mite stand acquitted of
that. with which it had been 'charged. This was
said nor merely in tor offieial way, but was, the
private opinion of that respectable Magistrate, who
had authorised him to state the tact 'as forcibly as
he could to the House. The ioqiiitiuow'crilled
for ought, at all events, to be entrusted to oilier
' hands it this were done, lie shduld rather hope
that a different conclusion mould he come to by
Gentlemen who had` no former opiiiiims to main-
tain, than trout Abase who had already gives) such
a pledge as he thought had beett.given by the
Members of the late. Committee. In Ireland,
when a part of the country tsits (iodated to tie
au
a disturbed stateohe whole kingdom was not put
out of the law, He therefore contended, because
symptoms of disaffection had been manifested in
same parts of this country, it did not inflow that.
the whole of it should be: deprived of the benefit ,!
of the Habeas Corpus Act, 1
Mr. YROitIBIUM thought the late Committee
would have been regarded with more respect had
it contained more County Members. He could
not consent to delegate to any individual the
-power of naming a.Committee on such 'an occa•
sion. If Cite. motion before the House were agreed
to, they would give the Nobler Lord the power of
reviving a Committee, which had been formed. by
means of the mere semblance of an election. He
should be disposed to suggest.sothe alteration in
the Committee, which should give-it a greater
number of COuntiMembers, but at present this
was not to be done, as he: could not move an
amendment oil au amendment.
Lord W. Miasma, was of opinion, any,Member
objecting to the revival of the Committee, could
propose any alteration in it that he might think
proper. The names he apprehended would be put
seriatim, and any one could be opposed, and ano-
ther moved as its substitute.
Mr. LAMB cordially approved of the motion' of
his Right Hon. Friend, .end earnestly recom-
mended the Noble Lord to take another Com,-
mime, and commit' the proposed inquiry to per-
sons whoSe minds were unbiasSed. The late Com-
Mittee revived, its decision, whatever, it might he,
would be sure' to be pursued by obloquy.. If the
result should be the sante as before, it woOld:he
said they were previously . pledged to it, and if,
on the other hand, it should be of an opposite
Character, it would then be asserted that they had
produced the new report from alarm, in conse-
quence of the obloquy,
toao and
former
repro-
' bation, which was calletl fort by their
Report.
Sir W. BURROWVI spproved of the motion of
'his Right Hon. Friend, las he thought it- would
'be better that the measures .tiltimately adopted
should be resorted to on the report of 42 Mem•
bers of that House than of 21 and those 21
'chosen by the Noble Lord, and going into the
new inquiry with a
,strous prepossession on the

subject.
Lord Maros? said the motion of his Itight Hon.
Friend did not appear to him to suggest-the most
convenient mode of appointing a Committee. If
it shoold he the pleasure of the House to revive
the old Committee, of which he had the honour
to be one, he should teriainly he constant in his
attendance., it could not be denied that the old
Coumittee would have some advantttges over any
other. They would possess greater facilities for
conducting the inquiry, and wouthey hadbegun,ld. more readily
take up the sequel of,that .
than it could be taken op by any other body of
men. t ut• at the stoic time it -mast be -adatitted,

the Old ehmailtiet woul4:vot proitiee that efr"-et,
on the piddle which ktti, tftsiratile. The
advantsgtis and disadvantages of the two plans.
ought to he' balanced. He could wish to mix up
some netv names with some of the old Committee.
He was unwilling to exclude Ministers. He
thought • they ought to, be in the Committee, as
well as some of lri3 'Honourable 8,1(1 Right Ho-
nourable Friends who were directly opposed to
them. The other Members of the Committee he
could Wish to,be new, and selected from different
sides of the House. He Wiated the Committee to
have the power' of sending for persons, papers,
and records. He did not approve of the motion
of the Noble Lord, nor could be vote for that of
his Right Him. Friend.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, the question now before
the House was simply whether certain words
should be omitted in the motion of the Noble
Lord, to make room for something which lie
should afterwards propose. It would afterwards
be for the House to decide, aye or. co, on any
name that might be moved.
Mr. BATHURST thought the object of the Hon.
Baronet 'could not be obtained but by' withdraw-
ing his motioo.
Sir J. Newt:soar said, the words he wished to
be Omitted, thrown out, the next question that
would be :put was open to any amendment.
therefore did not see there was any occasion for
him to withdraw his motion, as had been sug-
gesttfl by the RiAt Honourable Gentleman. '
Mr. STUART WoRTLEY was afraid the country
would not he estisfied if the old Committee wet e
revived without any alteration. He could wish
some new. Members to be added to it. To accom-
plish this, be supposed he must first vote for the
ntotiou of the Noble Lord, and he presumed it
would iheu he competent for hint to propose that
other Members should be added to the old Com-
mittee --(Cries of No, no 1)--He Wished to ask
if this could be dipie ?
The SPEAKER epprehended the course proposed
to be pursued was impracticable now. By the
Vote of the .House it had already been decided
that the Committee should consist of twenty-one
Members. It, then, it should be carried that the
old Committee should be revived, that deci.
sion would he conclusive against the admission of
new Members ; but in cases where the old Mem-
bers could not he obtained, one new Member, it
wa known, must • be added in the room of the
hitcAttorner;Cleneral.
Mr. S. Woims‘ then ,annonnced Lis intention
to vote for the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet.
The .House divicied, when the numbets were,
For the original 4esolation 126
For the Amendment 66
Majority
When strangers were re-admitted, the Speaker
was putting the question
" That the Committee should report on the
matter, as it should appear to them, to the
House."---This motion, after a few words from
Lord POLKsTONE, which were referred to by
Lord CASTLEREAGH, Was agreed to.
It was then resolved,' " That the Commitlee
meet at •..t.welve' o'clock to-morrow, and have
power to send for persons, papers, and records."
Lord FOLXSTONS moved, iu order to put the
Rouse in possession oldie real state of the Coon-
-Ity, that en instrnction should be given to the
tOmmittee ta4;titiaire particularly into the origin,
character, and extent of tlid disaffection supposed
to•exist in any part-of the country, or alleged to
exist, in any Rioter laid before the Committee—to
examine witnesses on these particular points, and
to inquire into the credit due to the allegations
made, arid to the written evidence given, and to
report on KB these porticiders to the House, and
to add the documents on which the Report should
be founded to-the RepOrt, as an Appendix.
Lord CASTLEREAGH contended the former part
of the Resolution of the Noble Lord was already
met by the vote of the House that the Committee
shoold report on all matters referred to them;
'He objected to the last part at it, and could not
refer to higher antliorit ytor doing so than that of
the late Committee, in the report of which it had
'been distinctly stated, that the evidence given
before them could not be published without ex-
posing the persons wito had turnished it to the
vengeance 'of •those affected by the disclosures
which had been made, and without risk of defeat-
ing the ends of justice.
Mr. BENNETTA:CfeItded the• resolution. It was
true the Committee had the power of doing what
be wished them to do, but the preient motion
went distinctly.ta require them to report on all
the particulars which it set forth. In 1812, the
lamented Mr. tVhitbread, contending for nearly
the same things, twice divided the CoMmittee; of
which he was then a Member. He had been given
to understand, that certain active, meddling Ma-
gistrates, bad insinuated charges of a serious na-
ture against gentlemen of the most irreproachable
condnct in Northumberland. Was it right that
innocent persons should thus, be put to the Bar ?
One gentleman had gone to the Cheviot to hunt,
and it wet inconsequence pretended, that his lie-
;sign was to gray the shepherds of the Cheviot
bills, in arms ligainst the Government. Nine-
tenths of -the charges matte and acted upon, he
believed to rest on no better grounds than this idle
report. He waslold that in consequence of some
loose information that had been obtained, 'the
streets -of Slirewsbnry were now lined. with ca-
valry.' It was slid that it was in contemplation
to seize the depot of arms established there. " I,"
exclaimed the Hon; Gentleman, " say there was
no such intention."-' (A 14144 !)----Notbiog could
tend more to disgust time loyal than such iincees.
sary precautions..' He hadino hesitation in saying
that much of the information of this nature which
bad been teceived, might 'be traced to the Go-
vernmentitself.
Mr. likruussr did not believe any thing like
that which had been referred to by the Hon.Gen-
demon came within his own knowledge. With
respect to Northumberland and Shropshire be had
been misinformed. There was nothing to be laid
before the 'Committee that would at all compro-
mise them.
The motion wise then negatived.
Lord Fot.itstoNa thought it desirable that they
should know who had ,been taken under the Ha..
beas Corpus Suspension Act, and therefore moved
that an inetructirm should be given to the Com-
mittee to inquire into the particular case of each
and every parson detained under that Mt, setting

fortirtite -names, age ra &as, prafessi ons, and
copaiians ol'ihe parties ; the places uerr
Were. arrested, Anti where they were now confined ;
slid a!so the npiolocii of the Committee on their
ieveral cases.

Lord CASTLEREAGH opposed the tnotion as ode
which went to give the Committee a most uncOni. •
stitutional controul over the Magistrates.

The resolution was put and negatived.
Lord FoLitsroNE gave notice, that on Wed 6
nesday he %%Quid wove that such a return should
be anacle to the House as he had just called for.—

Ufa. i"Piiiiinu
vent, tlitite ci
there 110 ri
or
wake
~nrcf, as a
; on. 34 ii lite
OM ‘4therefc
to be
,i 8 in il
1 tiLi 'lllir be
'it Ihit he
goi. hPapers t
pilri ;,,I°'lle, to
„for -,i,d m.,,
;4
..,
td the h)
iot' t hid se,
trust
.!flo any
sit°, 'q°ll of
yUlli"U
, , PropOS
;AO., .13enera
014', 41' Ile
tioPc: 1 baeri rl
ail 1 VOl.mt
te 41(Y At SI
est ', 41t4pliti
, ... liti if ,
I ttilii 1g Prue
hi'' ~ Ito 10,1
e Isl befint I
vper .. thliell
Id illt 4. the libel
Alai 41I1r if no
JW,' lalid ge
et' 'titL hitnth
' , 4.4.lneft
. 4...
rol'i,' Vtllitnt,
~I`,:t:telefi "0
~,1,,, . ',.iiig; anti
1,
.th.. r4tiijo of
II
Vilti- It
t 4 then
;lee' ':11114 not
6 rda7 11prt in
1,„,d 11,4,1;
otito !tilia lb
tt
I ill: ell; , if:4 14
118 i' .i.l
pro'
.4
Li
.1114 i he
( aa! 'll out. 1
111” 1 44/ ;171
e
aid Nitu..
i,,r4 1,,,,t :Yt...._
90,4 r4tver.je
(, id; red I
tna.
, ,•
.vmvp
F,ll 0 ILI N.
013 tcrl ir'
ton ,
!)... I,tiosilre
iiii;/ , part'.
00 Ni,l:,
tofilii tfore th
pro, t4,onre i
Art,L., ,I)q.nusi
(4
a the r.
014* ;tt '
eil: ;I: "4
11,' ilf:tit'ul
lola !lei,
flifi. ft„ 371
rOA titililr er
fly
e

lit 9- 7 l!iit:
be '
-, 1 Illi 1
1 -ttl
t,lO • wtt sti
. later 1:
of ,
it „
t tlo
'
let
tio im't- tilt
,01) "i 010 u
,ot „i Ne,
of
iht :,: . lilt it) ,
,(11 4,1, •
y, , p , v ,() e
00' et he.
'oil ; 'l4ll '
Pt' - i 4 be
O. '4l , '
r. ,(, of
i tie
0 .1,,, ell(
too', t'uPtittil
" !'attic
-
t ,14 Llve
II '4. ”hti
rtle‘ j 11;411 Ilan
1-I'.4t tva
it, 4%44,
o'l'. 11:01 tl
[icil iiihlttre
II,d) ' •11 Iti';',..
3'
liga ,
.., i ' 41
Oil : 1"14h,
C .: SO) !
711 l'4
4,
li.
rili .' Ntr
.... .. it ~,,,
lii , ' .:: ' . Athif
.0$ '-
Ilk' I
0e0i... thit,rit
rity.ii- te 1
0r... Iti
tP, 11 4111
11 ••A 11,t,
'9114
.• 11, t
'
oily
..
it
RA(
6di it) 1,,
00--,, . ttt •.,.
Ito: , ',lt4 tit
totiPli :, tit,