The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-29 00:00:00

b, • -
Va'e of Ireland that. they were disposed to do as n seesh fee
tike
as a Parliament sitting in College-green, the y would
e away from agitation all its danger, and from the a, litators
ttt their animosity.—(Cheers.) They would lease. to
he
,ehPeople of Ireland only this question to cc.nsider,
Ither a British Parliament could legisLee for Ireland., when
shoed the dosaitiolaannmd; but if this. coalition between the
highest of Churchmen the lowest of Orangists were suc-
Zsfol, then indeed the 'agitation for repeal would be clan-
Zi;rew•—(Cheers.) If friends like those roond wereeet.
out-
Du' from the representation of popialona places by this
Dui the? world have to fear not the repeal of the Legislativef
col alone, but a more fatal severance. The oil o
p olltar7ism 'had been mixed up with the vinegar of " No
VerYs The Hon. Member for Ashton had referred with
de to the voluntary support given to religion by the
th3' Dissenters of this country, and he had asked why
he Poor Catholics of Ireland could not do the same.—( Hear,
el.) It was
an insult to common sense.—(Hear, hear.)
se:reTainded him of the naive observation of Marie Antoinette
coulde .she was eating a bun, that she wondered how the people
t be starving when they might buy such nice cakes for
51)enee•—( Great laughter.) He had given his vote for the
Pkposition of the Hon. Member for Sheffield, because it was
it; but whatever means could be adopted for carrying out
o.serant, he would support them. He admired the argument
1,00,711.0 n. Member for Stockport, that instead of loaking,
this measure as a violation of conscience it should be re-
garded as doing truly
theiran act worthy of Christians, uniting to-
gether
people of different sects, who, whatever
etdifferences, maintained the most important parts
Pat which all admitted as their common Christianity.
sir ROBERT PEEL said,—Sir, already on three several
ions 11 I have had an opportunity of ststing fully to the
nijf" the motives of the Government in introducing this
and their general views, and of answering those ques-
,7 Which were put to me in the course of the debate, as to
"'sr tiltesier objects. I think it therefore unnecessary on this
ItZri°ll, to trouble the House at any length. for I think
tis motion the same precisely as on the second reading.
1,1 j,„ Rim. and Learned Gentleman, the Member for the
'er'ity of Cambridge, avoos that it is his object to defeat
eteiemeasure. I think the issue, therefore, on the present ne-
ws°
111
itais the s
readingreading
of the Bill, with thatand for
that which we
who,ded for the
ed on the
kteo4 vot
t,„ e will feel themselves under an equal obligation
tft, t°it° against the proposal of this Hon. and Lear ned Gentleman.
elh
! proposal was supported by the Hon. Member for
wet "'ander-Line, who, I understand. was the organ and re-
et:otative of a great body of public opinion in this country
tit friendly to the voluntary system. Yet I was sun-
tor hear, in the course of the speech of that Hon. Mem-
by b, statement—that if the measure originally proposed
1 I,7:„,was an annual instead of being a permanent grant, or if
take"' new consent, instead of making it a permanent to
sesss It an annual vote, he would be prepared to acquiesce in that
ser,„sal, and grant the whole annual sum that I proposed of
the 17; on the other hand, if the grant was to be permanent,
sith"tien. Gentleman said he
.would.feel it his duty to contend
Ole hike utmost vehemence against it. Now, cannot recan-
ts," opinion on the voluntary system with his readiness to
torl'°rt the annual vote ; and I cannot understand how I am
%to the suport of at least the great majority of those e hose
4 34al were presented to this House, were I merely to make
teen
fib Dt
Re from permanent to annual.—(Hear, hear.) I
there is little difference in point of principle as to raising
altet of 26,500/. annually or permanently—it amounts to
shs,Z;ttls strong an engagement on our part, unless there
the -ss" "some strong conclusive reason for the withdrawal of
liess-"IMal vote—for though the vote of 26,5"'01. a year should
reet,nttal, there would be, in point of tact, a virtual engage-
Ate 7" its continuance little less than permanent.— ( Hear.)
elke` cannot consent to purchase his consent by making that
to ge* In thefirst place. 1 believe I should purchase but, little
pert, and even though I could purchase much, 1 would not
swe, the alteration. I say I believe that such a concession
the 10 quite alter the character of the measure in the eyes of
est People of —( Hear, hear.) I believe it would be
Odered as an indication of distrust, and that the alteration
fsitt°loPletely at variance with the spirit in which we pro-
% "et° bring it forward. On that account, Sir, it is wholly
p to °` eIY power to consent to it. I shall do all in my power
,sat ail on the House to pass the measure as a perma-
hithe
tfeine insguwfii;l( Hear, hear ) I must hope that wittwill be
toeuelataantages in avoiding the absolute necessity for an
gill grant. I do firmly believe that the present excitement
Win seu'iste, and that the public feeling in Ireland
of thtnuch improved, for we cannot deny that the feelings
144 Protestants of Inland with respect to this vote is ma-
O hl Y different from that of the people of Great Britain
tIW,7, hear.) I believe that one of the great advantages of
te'et e will be, that it will serve as a connecting link be-
etc, Protestants and Roman Catholics ; but happen what
tis,Y,' believe that, from the example set by the great, por-
whiehtf the Protestants of Ireland, by their wish—a wish
the I believe is cordially entertained by the great bulk of
protestant body—l believe I may say that the manifesta-
tioit that wish will have a tendency to abate religious ant-
ist,:es In that country. But certainly, whatever be the
Itreettel the present measure, I should contemplate with the
Ithish" Pain and regret the prospects of that annual agitation
(I.l.tallst be the inevitable consequence of an annual vote.—
if "c. hears) I believe that a motion to repeal the Act,
of IsPited, may be brought forward in the next se-sion
die"arnent ; but I think that agitation will be of a totally
kitsilllnt character if the vote be made a permanent one. Se
thl4. with respect to the immediate question under considera-
teem Before I notice the speech of the Right Hon. Gentle-
-110t," Member for Perth, I will allude to that of the Right
o,4t.',9entlernan opposite (Mr. V. Smith). The Right Hon.
I‘ :roan referred to the events which occurred in 1829, and
Iteli7fll4e which I took with reference to the Roman Catholic
Nis, Bill, and the Right Hon. Gentleman repeating what_ he
Dtril the inconsistency of public men, referred to, as he hada
lioetet light, the course which I pursued in 1829. The Right
dr Gentleman said, with reference tomy own character and the
id aster of the class to which I belong, that he regretted I
that Ot on that occasion retire from office, at the same time
lit to the Me might
Right Honve my
ourab' cordiael
Gentleman, t the measu .
that there may be
to tY,,fteaaions on which it would be the duty of a public man
Islegotinish office rather than propose measures—measures
he h would be altogether contrary to the principles which
of hitherto supported. But I think the propriety
effssst4ld king that course ought mainly to depend on the
pilip which retirement would have on the success of a
the" measure which he might believe to be necessary for
hoPublic good.—(Hear.) I think it was perfectly fair and
my Right Hon. Friend, the late President of the Board
e.,ratle to relinquish office. The Right Hon. Gentleman
unkks I 'ought thave pursued the same course in 1829. That
i.)tecisely the course which I wish to puue, months which I
pruded to pursue. I did, until within a of the pe-
rer.when I consented to bring forward that measure for the
stib'el of the Roman Catholic disabilities.—l did contemplate
r.J retirement from office—not because: I sl'runk from the
0/risibility of pressing the measure—not because I dreaded
Ctncharge of inconsistency —net because I was not prepared
tietiseie a sacrifice of private friendship and political con-
*saki but because I honestly believed that my retirement
tlioe' Promote the success of the measure which I then
ght necessary—that I might assist my Noble Friend in
thing that measure were I to make a sacrifice of office, and
Port I might give, as I intended, a cordial sup-
Iltle in my private capacity, to that measure.
ety When did I change my opinion ? I changed
rtst °l,ll.leiml when it was demonstrated to me that it was
alloos`c,easary that I should make the sacrifice—when it was
Met,(l '? Inc that, however humble my abilities might be, yet,
skeet ;nog the situation which I filled, that with my retire-
W relo office the carrying of the measure would *have totally
It it,th When it was proved to me that there was opposition to
over% e highest quarters, and that that opposition could not be
Wes use unless I was prepared to make sacrifices of much that
liS,...ucar to me—when it was intimated to me by my Noble
arch
that it was the intention of the highest authority of the
to ,teh of England to offer the most determined opposition
ta --n'e Measure—when my Noble Friend intimated
snip:that he tho:ght that if I persevered in my intention to
kitii;hteceess was out of the question. It was then, and not
Willie. en, that I said I will not expose others to obloquy or
tebeniall from which I will myself shrink. I know all the cen-
eliefsest of my coming forward to propose the measure of
swag Roman Catholic disabilities ; but the moment that I
110 .tenvinced that the ohs' ruction to success would
that Pes,tlY increased by retirement, then I stated
..Wlay not sacrifice others, be the consequences what they
iaets —„em:sself. I will propose the measure. These are the
%nee: the case, and I think I acted a more honest par in
I to °g to retain office and the proposal of the measure—that
than ii`;" part more becoming the chi ract ,r of a public m: ti
tiet% it Said to my Sovereign, s, We shad be exposed to sus-
" tate f I Propose this measure"—advise the Crown. to. give
brie nt to it, but myself escape from the responsibility of
qtrotng it forward. I must say, that whatever be the taunts
beta" out against me, that believing this measure to be a.d-
*hien% to the public good. forseeing the opposition with
,g11.,t Would be encountered, I saw, in spite of all these taunts
tßeie,,i'l these schemes, whatev, r may be now said
keest, me, that it is more becoming in me to propose this
tobeettitret and submit to the consequences, than say I think the
noth-el necessary, but I advise you on the opposite side of the
Whi,ll to bring it forward, and expose yourself. to the odium.
haul attaches to it. So much for the policy on which I
ky .attaches
the retention of office. If I believe now that
this 4,-„lll(Plislirnent of office should facilitate the carrying of
tfreli-ssseatlre, I doubt now why I should not prefer that course
44t, squishing office, and supporting it in a private station.
te he t-44itting all that the Right Hon. Gentleman has said
yeti. „res
,het
~Tbreefetrence to what he says had taken place in the.
ay I have so imperfect a recollection of it,
41e1„,aee notathoes slightest conception as to whether it is a
said :hreentation or not. The Right
.Hon. Gentleman has
142 etc he was not prepared to fix the time, but that it was
we- /ears ago • I regret that somebody had not taken down
!tee, r a at the time, is for I have no recollection of ti.em ; be-
lt e' whether I argued this or not, I should like to see what
that'll I then saidg.--(llear. ) I have not Ve least doubt
cos % *aid that the Established Church in Scotland should, in
PristZ with the Established Church in England, enjoy the same
thee -ees ; and I have not the least doubt that I also stated
fess4°Y devotion to the principles which I had always pro•
Yet I ("!ii this subject. However, I have no recollection of ;
°thee:l4 sal that from what had taken place in Prussia and
at% the cotinent I was not willing that the same
Rgle
should taken place in' Ireland between the Catholics and
eouai,stie to, and therefore I was anxious to avoid all religious
Itsttsree btlt never did I hear it said that I at any. time
k Riar ,11 opinion in depreciation of the Roman Catholics.—
frot, • I never heard it asserted, and the first I heard of it was
thewt het I saw in the public newspapers and. I must
Ithe lit all I have heard from all sides is very contradictory.te
heg-s,,guage which I believe I used.—(Hear, hear.) Again,
14 rn 55/ that I have no recollection of the part attributed
lay, i;„"Y the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite ; but this I will
eath,, !It during the cry that was raised against the Roman
stud i¢-, I, for one, never joined in that cry. —( Hear, hear.)
Aran moat here be allowed to say that it does appear rather
et tillatte, if such was my language, and such my conduct
terete shaverit is rather remarkable, I say, that I should sub-
(eh Me,l7 suppatted this question as I have d0ne...7-
stilsesel9 Now, from the manner in which I spoke upon this
ki 'll the year 1841, the Right Hon. Baronet opposite
odviie'll quoting my words, "it would be better to follow my
oe this question as delivered by me out of doors." Now, in
,When I was out of office, I did not shrink from avowing
44 ration in favour of this vote, for I said it was an honour-
WcieneP, gogement, and that it would be impossible, without
to Witrg the feelings of the Roman Catholics of Ireland,
1444.._,draw this vote ; and therefore now I support it, par-
ttelattearnttyreahtiglteLnzt believe it to be at all injurious to the P.rbo-
Hear, hear.) I now think it impossible
hivee to withhold this measure, or to advocate. the case o
". Member for the University of Cambridge. 1 be-
the lhat in Ireland they would be very independent of this
Stset,lttlire; but still I must say, that if the Hon. Member.
opt Persevere in his motion, I certainl must declare it is
do el3f, °at, power to be a party to such a vote.—(Cheers.) I
it Wil
forward this measure under the impression that
eye, not be continued regularly with a view of rescuing for
htitilbe College of Maynooth from the position in.which
_it.
to s erto been placed, because I say it would be disgraceful
14'1(41 to send
s loos_ forward any measure of this nature that. could
Ittla.nri upon as a dissatisfactory measure of legislation in
''sHear, hear.) I will n say that I was not pre-
ed fos
soi b-- the opposition which this measure has met with from
the lasenters ; but I will say this, that much as I respect
detore,Preesion of public feeling upon all subjects, so far from
klii-418 me, upon this, it will only tend as an additional
„et° rite to proceed.—(Cheers.) I do not say i/nts in de-
goletes° any party, but to prove to the Roman Catholics of
n that the Government of this country were prepared
%hero to their unwires, which were dictated

by nose otl •• than a kindly feeling.—(Loud cheers.) But
of this I will give them the assurance that, in office or out
of office, that which I have undertaken to do I Kill, to the ut-
most of my power, fulfil—it may be short of th.ir expecta-
tions, but they never shall have cause to charge me with
abandoning their interest—which I will advance to the extent
to which I feel, consistently with my public duty, I can pro-
mote it.—(The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst loud
cheers.)
Lord WORSLEY then addressed the House for a few
minutes, but owing to the noise in the House, and the impa-
tience which was manifested for a division, his observations
were inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that, having opposed the Bill
in all the stages through which it had passed, he did not
think that any apology was necessary from him for the vote
which he intended to give on that occasion. The Right Hon.
Baronet had the other night said. " Of course those who vote
against the second reading of this Bill, will support the mo-
tion of the Hon. and Learned Recorder for London," but if he

(Mr. Duncombe) recollected correctly the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had stated that evening that every one of those Gen-
tlemen who were opposed to the Hon. Member for Sheffield
would of necessity vote for the motion of the Hon. and
Learned Member.
Sir R. PEEL—He has changed his motion.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE—CW;nged his motion ! But how
had he changed it The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
first proposed that the money should not be taken out of the
Consolidated fund, and he then proposed that the report of the
Committee which had agreed to the money being taken out of
the Consolidated fund should be received that day six months.
This was splitting hairs. He (Mr. Duncombe) said that the
motion was precisely the same. The Right Hon. Baronet was
right in calling on those Gentlemen who had voted with the
Hon. Member for Sheffield, to vote for the motion of the
Honourable and Learned Member for Cambridge. But
it did not appear that they would vote for it.
Were they to be told that the expression of public opinion was
to he treated, as the Hon. Baronet said, as a ferment in the
public mind, which was about to be set aside ? That was the
language of the Minister to the people of England. He (Mr.
Duncombe) would give the Hon. Baronet the credit of this.
He had never seen any indecent haste on the part of the Hon.
Baronet to remain in office, nor had he ever seen in him any
unworthy desire to retain office after his power had gone. He
(Mr. Duncombe) believed that the Right Hon. Baronet be-
lieved that it was his duty to pass this measure if he possibly
could. But he was carrying it in direst opposition to the
wishes and feelings of the body of the people.—(Hear, hear.)
What the people of this country so much objected to was the
endowment of the Roman Catholic religion. They objected to
transfer this property where there was already one establish-
ment too mr.riy--(`° Hear, hear," and a laugh.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman now set public opinion at defiance. There
could be no question about it after his speech of that evening,
but he believed the Right Hon. Gentleman proved himself the
greatest enemy of the Established Church in Ireland.—(Hear,
hear.) He would however do him the justice to say that he was
the greatest friend to the extension of the franchise, for the
people of this country would rri longer allow the constitution of
that Howe to remain as it was.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. COLLETT ( Athlone) rose amidst loud cries of "
oh." He would not detain the House many moments.—
(Hear, hear.) The question had been exhibited in so
many different aspects, that he, as a young Member—(L d
laughter)—hardly knew how to vary the question before the
House. He approved of the motion of the Hon. Member for
Sheffield, which he thought might be stated in a few words,
namely, who was to pay the piper.—(Laughter.) Except
upon the voluntary principle, he was opposed to all establish-
ments.—(Loud Laughter.) He thought that religion
was a matter between a man and his God. He did not
think that he had a right to say to the Roman Catholic that
his own religion was bet ter than his, nor that the Roman Ca-
tholic had a right to say that his religion was better than Ma-
hometanism.—(lncreased laughter. ) Religion did not con-
sist in reviving obsolete forms, or preaching a sermon in a
white, or a black, or blue surplice, but in doing good. He
thought if they were to have a Pope, the farther off he was the
better. It was better to have one in Rome, or in Exeter, than
in London.—(Laughter.) He thought they need not go to
the Consolidated fund for the money, when they could take
5,0001. a year from the Bishop of London and the Bishop of
Exeter.—( Laughter.) If they did this they would be put
more on a level with the meek and poor Apostles, whose fol-
lowers they professed to be.—(Laughter.) But they were no
more apostles than he was.--(Roars of laughter.) He would
support the measure of the Government.

The House then divided, when there appeared—
Against the motion
For it

Majority against the motion —ll3
Mr. TA NCRED then proposed that upon the report of a
resolution from the Committee, that provision he made out of
the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom of Great Britain
and Ireland, for the endowment of the College of Maynooth, to
move the addition of the following word,. " until provision
shall be made for the same, by any Act to be phased in
this or any subsequent session of Parliament, either out of
any surplus in the hands of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of
Ireland, or by an assessment of the lands of Ireland to an
amount equivalent to the remission of tithes made to the land-
lords of Ireland by the Tithe Commutation Act, as Parliament
may deem most advisable."
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment ... 52
Against it
Majority
The report was then brought up.
Mr. S. O'BRIEN moved the second reading of the Malt
Drawback Bill, which was, however, after a few words from Mr.
Hume and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, postponed till
Friday next.
The Museums of Art Bill was read a third time.

- 76

Lord ASHLEY brought up the report on the Calico Print
Works Bill.

The remaining orders were ther. disposed of, and the House
adjourned at a Qtrirter to One o'clock.

IAI in AY COMMITTEES.
(YESTERDAY.)
Group T.
SYSTON AND PETERBOROUGH RAILWAY.
MONDAY, SIXTH DAY. _ _ _

The Committee met to-day, to consider the clauses of this
Bill Sir George Grey, Bart., in the chair.
dr. WHATELEY, on the part of Lord Harborough, re-
marked that he could not assent to the clauses the Com-
mittee had drawn up since Saturday, relative to the mode in
which the line was proposed to be taken through his Lord-
ship's grounds.
The clauses had been drawn up on the recommendation of
the Committee at the close of its sitting on Saturday, founded
on an arrangement which it was said the Company had ef-
fected with the proprietors of the Oakham Canal, which
passes through his Lordship's grounds, and along which it
was proposed to take the line of railway. -
The CHAIRMAN suggested that any opposition to the clauses
should be offered when they came in regular order before the
Committee, and that the objections should be confined to the
adequacy f the clauses to carry out the arrangement come
to on Saturday. The preamble of the Bill the Committee
had considered proved, and they could not consent to the re-
opening of the main question.
A number of clauses were then read, but no discussion
took place till those relating to tolls were brought under con-
sideration.

The CHAIRMAN and Mr. II sera. considered the rates both
relating to passengers and goods too high, and gave several
instances of lower rates in old-established lines. The Great
North of England, the Newcastle and Darlington, and the
Manchester and Ashton-under-Lyne Railways were cited as
cases in point, along with several others. The clauses were
ultimately postponed, in order to enable the Committee to
collect definite information respecting the average rate
of charges on other lines.
The clauses relating to the carrying of the line through
Lord Harborough's estate were then gone into.
Tire first clause in reference to this matter was then read,
which was to the effect that the line might be taken through
the park, according to a line marked in a plan produced,
either on the site of the canal, or outside of it to a distance of
a hundred yards, as circumstances might require it.
Mr. WitATELEY said it was the understanding on Saturday
that the railway should be substituted for the canal through
his Lordship's grounds. Now, there was nothing respecting
this in the clause just read, so that it gave the Company the
power to take the railway through the grounds, without
using the canal as had been agreed to. There was, there-
fore, the possibility of a double nuisance ; there might be both
the canal and railway existing at the same time. There was
no security whatever that the canal would be used for
the purposes of the company, as the latter
could do nothing in regard of using the canal without
an Act of Parliament. He thought the Bill ought to
be postponed till an Act, empowering the company to take
up the canal, was passed.
The CHAIRMAN stated that the Committee had considered
the objection of Lord Harborough to the original plan of the
company as one of a serious nature, involving a con-
siderable violation of private property ; hence, they
had felt desirous of a better arrangement being come
to. Now, however, he thought the clause proposed
quite as favoura'Ae as the proposition for taking the
line along the canal, inasmuch as the line if not carried
along the canal, in the event of the arrangement
with the proprietors not being satisfactorily concluded, it
would be taken outside of it, and at a greater distance from
his Lordship's house.
Mr. TALBOT, on the part of the comppy, said they were
willing to add an additional clause to ei he Bill, in order to
give time for negotiations with his Lordship, and the canal
proprietors. It was in substance that no land should be
taken from his Lordship's ground without his consent within
a twelvemonth from the passing of the Act.
After some further discussion this clause, in addition to the
other clauses relating to this portion of the line, were
agreed to.
The clauses respecting Stamford-bridge were next taken
into consideration, and severally agreed to. They provide
that 5,000/. shall be applied by the company to the widen-
ing of the bridge ; and that, for the additional accommodation
of the inhabitants of Stamford, a footbridge shall be erected.
A clause was also agreed to, that at the point where the line
meets with the Eastern Counties Railway, near Peterborough,
the speed of the trains should not be more than four miles
per hour.
After agreeing to several other unimportant clauses, the
' Committee adjourned till Thursday, at twelve o'clock.

Group X.
The Committee appointed to investigate the merits of the
Bills comprised in group X met this morning in Committee-
room No. 16 ; present, Lord Courtenay, Chairman, Mr.
Darby, Mr. P. Scrope, Mr. M'Geachy, Mr. B. Wall.
The Committee had the following Bills before them,
namely,—London and York—Lincoln, York and Leeds
Direct —Cambridge and Lincoln Direct Northern
Eastern Counties (Cambridge and Huntingdon)
Eastern Counties (Ely and Whittlesea)— Eastern
Counties (Hertford and Biggleswade)—Eastern Counties
(Finsbury Extension)—Eastern Counties (Ely and Lincoln
Extension)—Midland Railways Extension (Swinton and
Lincoln)—Midland Railways Extension (Lincoln and Ely)
—Rotherham, Bawtry, and Gainsborough Junction—Shef-
field and Lincolnshire Junction—York and North Midland
and Doncaster Extension—Tottenham and Farringdon-
street Junction. . .

yV-
At the sitting of the Committee, this morning, strangers
were ordered out of the room in order that the Committee
might deliberate as to their mode of proceeding. On the re-
admission of strangers, they wire informed that no one but
agents and counsel would be allowed to remain. The reporters
were rudely expelled, but they forwarded a note into the
room to Lord Courtcnav, signed by the reporters for the
Times, Morning Chronicle, Morning Herald, and The Sun.
The answer to this note was, that one reporter might be ad-
mitted, but only one. This proposition was, of course, rejected,
and another note was sent into the Chairman, and the answer
to this note was, " that the press could not be admitted to-
day, but perhaps they might be admitted to-morrow."
We may add that the Committee Clerk, whose name is
Creed, was principally instrumental in the refusal to admit
the reporters.

Group B.
WEST YORKSHIRE DISTRICT.
MONDAY, EIGHTH DAY.
The Committee sat this day at twelve o'clock.
P. M. STEWART, Esq., M.P., Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN announced that there were some clauses in
the Bill they had under their consideration on Friday which
they should postpone the cousideratiou of, as they related to

tolls; other Committees having adopted the same course in
respect to similar clauses.
The Solicitor to the Bill then read the other clauses left
undisposed of on Saturday, in which some mere verbal
amendments were made. _ _ _

Several Counsel announced that they appeared on behalf
of the I,ornore Company, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Slayden, Col.
Pepys, Mr. Jenkins, the Bradford Board of Surveyors, and
others, against the Leeds and West Riding line.
The CHAmmAx said they would now proceed to business
with the

LEEDS AND WEST RIDING LINE.
Mr. AUSTEN said he would occupy very little of the time
of the Committee with his opening statement of the Leeds
and West Riding scheme. In this line he begged
to say that he included the branch from Cooperbridge
to Huddersfield : but of that he would say no more now, as
he would leave that to the witnesses. The line he was now
advocating was proposed to be undertaken by the Leeds and
Manchester Company, and was in the form of an in-
verted S, and included Halifax and Leeds, and
Wakefield and Dewsbury, and many other im-
portant places before the Committee on the
map. The Leeds and Manchester Company had already
'tinkle one line, which had been found to be of great advan-
tage to the public. The communication which the
Leeds and Manchester Company had already given be-
tween Leeds and Manchester was sixty-one miles;
and they now proposed, by what they called the
West Riding Line, to give the shortest possible mode
of communication, by reducing the length of the distance
from 61 to 47 miles, thereby saving a journey of 13 miles,
by opening a communication by way of Halifax. Besides
that, they brought within the sphere of Leeds and Man-
chester the important town of Bradford, which was
eight miles from Birmingham. The population of Bradford
was 105,000, and therefore it would be a great convenience to
that mass of people to bring a railway station within 24
miles of them, instead of eight miles, and they also put
Halifax on the line; and th::t town had a population
of 130,000 inhabitants, and therefore it would be unnecessary
to point out the importance of having this line carried
us to this town. The second object of those who proposed
this line was to cause an inter-communication with Brad-
ford, Halifax, Dawsburv, and another district, not on the
map, but which he would call the Clackheaton Valley, and
which was a most important branch. In fact, what
was wanted was, that some giant station should stand
at the cross of Lomore and spread out his limbs all over this
line of country, in order to enable the people engaged in all
the departments of such trades as dyeing, weaving, fulling,
stubbing, wool stapling, &c., all of which were of very great im-
portance, as well as for the convenience of a number of people
who did much of their work at home, and therefore wanted a
cheap and expeditious mode of going for and taking back
their work to the manufactories. Therefore, the objects of
the Leeds and Manchester Company in this scheme
was economy of construction, quick transit, and low
fares, all of which could est be achieved by the
lines being made by one Company. There was already
a branch from Leeds to Halifax, and therefore it was pro-
posed to begin at Copley Mills, where the gradient would
only be 1 to 100, and no private property would be inter-
fered with. They then went on from Halifax to
Lomore, which was the highest point on the line.
From that the line was a descent, and the traffic upon
that down line, in iron alone, was about 23,000 tans of pig and
bar iron per annum, besides an enormous traffic in coals,
therefore if this line were made, it would be of great conve-
nience. They then proposed to cross Lomore at the most
convenient height for all purposes. The length of tunnel
proposed to be made on the line from Copley-hills to Hali-
fax, was 92 yards; the second tunnel, that from Halifax, at
Beacon-hill, would be 836 yards ; the third, at Lightcliff,
would be 345 yards; the fourth, at Wyke, near Lomore,
would be, 1,238 yards; and the district from Lomore to
Leeds was a uniform level of lin 100. There were no engi-
neering difficulties on the line, but there was to be a tunnel
of 1,696 yards ; and the station at Leeds would be found to
be as convenient as it is possible to make it for all rail-
way purposes. He would now go back to Lomore.
The tunnel on the line from Leeds to Bradford would be 1,092
yards, and that line could be made on a gradient of 1 in 70.
The line from Lomore to Dewsbury was 74 miles long, and
there would be no tunnelling in it; then they proposed to go
from Wisbrig to Brighouse. where they proposed to join the
Leeds and Manchester line, and there would be no tunnelling
on that either. Thus, then, he had shown that this under-
taking would consist of six lines and five branches, and would
be understood as the West Riding line. The extent of
mileage was about 34.1 miles, having six tunnels, and the
whole cost had been estimated at about 1,100,000 L, or at the
rate of 34,0001. per mile. He would now proceed to call
his witnesses.

Mr. BAINES said, that perhaps he would save some trouble
and loss of time by now repeating an offer which he had
made before. He was now ready, on behalf of the Dews-
bury Company, to repeat their otter, which, if acceded to,
would secure all the contemplated advantages to the public
without injury to the Leeds and Manchester Company. It
was this—to give the Dewsbury Company the power
to make their line between Leeds and Mirfield,
at the point where Mirfield was joined, the
Dewsbury Company giving up the Cooper-bridge line,
on condition that the Leeds and Manchester Company would
allow an uninterrupted communication to pass between Leeds
and Huddersfield by Cooper-bridge.
Mr. AUSTIN said he could not be prepared before to-morrow
morning to give an answer to the proposition.
The first witness called was Mr. Frith, who deposed that
he had manufactories at Leeds, Bradford, Nottingham, and
Glasgow, and that the lines of rail proposed by the Leeds
and Manchester Company would afford great convenience to
his manufactories for the transit of his goods, coals, &c.
Mr. Robert Baker—Was a member of the Leeds Town
Council, and the author of the sanitary report of the town for
the Poor-law Commissioners. The proposed lines would be
a great convenience for the transit of coals, of which an
enormous quantity was consumed in the manufactories of
the town. _ _

Mr. John Botterill deposed that he was an extensive dyer,
and that the saving to his firm in the cartage of coals by the
propcsed lines would be very great, and the supply as abun-
dant and certain. Had had an offer from one coal com-
pany to sell their coals at ls. per ton cheaper if this line were
made.
Mr. Bateson—ls an Alderman of the borough of Leeds,
and a member of the West Riding Railway Committee;
the present scheme contemplates the line called the
short line of last year ; the object was to shorten the
distance between Halifax and Leeds, last year, by a line
from Leeds to Bradford ; the short line would be very
advantageous to the woollen districts, particularly at Pod-
sey, where low cloths were made by the workmen in their
own houses ; if there were a line of rail from Pudsey to Leeds,
there would be great traffic upon it. The Town-council of
Leeds and the poor-law guardians, and many others had
signed petitions in favour of this line.
Cross-examined—The petition of the Town-council was
not a corporate act, but the act of individuals ; did not hear
that the same parties signed a petition for and against this
line.

Mr. Benion—ls a magistrate of the West Riding, and is in
the trade of flax-spinning at Leeds. Was of opinion that the
proposed line was of the greatest importance to the trade of
that district. _ _

Mr. Cliff, a resident at Wortley, and an extensive dealer
in bricks, gave evidence in favour of the line.
Mr. Grant, another resident of Wortley, and a surveyor
of one portion of the township, agreed with Mr. Cliff that
the West Riding line was the more preferable of the two.
Mr. 11. Carr, a cloth manufacturer, living at Little Moor,
in the township of Pudsey, said the population of Pudsey was
about 10,000, most of whom were in favour of the `Vest
Riding line.
Mr. TALBOT intimated that this closed their evidence for
one of the districts through which their line passed.
The Committee then adjourned.

Group DD.
The Committee met at twelve o'clock in room No. 14, and
consisted of Mr. Parker (Sheffield), Chairman; Mr. Mon-
tague Gore, Sir P. Egerton, Lord Ebrington, and Mr. East.
At first there were no arrangements made for the accom-
modation of the reporters, but on a representation being
made to that effect to Mr. Parker, the Chairman, he very
kindly directed that accommodation should be provided
fur them.
The railway comprised in group DD. are the Caledonian,
Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle, Clydesdale Junction, Edine
burgh and Glasgow, and Scottish Central.
After a great deal of preliminary discussion, it was agreed
that the Scottish Central, and the Edinburgh and Glasgow
lines should be taken into consideration. Both are com-
peting lines.
Mr. Johnson, of Kinkardine, and some of the inhabitants
of Perth, petitioned against the Scottish Central scheme.
Mr. Cockburn, Mr. Talbot, and Mr. Hope, appeared for
the Scottish line, Mr. M'Neill appeared for the Edinburgh
and Glasgow line ; Sir Thomas Philips and Mr. Hildyard
appeared for the Dumfries line.
Mr. TALBOT stated the case on behalf of the Scottish Cen-
tral line. He said that the object of the projectors of this
line wail to make a line of railway, which was to be forty-
five miles in length, reversing the natural order, and com-
inerong from the north; this line might be said to pass
from Perth, by-Strathedon, and through Stirling, till it com-
municated in two-places with the Edinburgh and Glasgow,
to the western point, being a place called Castlecary, which
forme 1 the extreme terminus of, the. Caledonian Railway
to cards the north, the distance being 18 milesifrom Glasgow,
the eastern point being at Falkirk, 24 miles from Edinburgh,
so that it might be said to bisect the lidinburgh and Glas-
gow line. The estimate for the construction of the line was
830,0001., and there were no engineering difficulties along
the line. There were 155,000 souls along the line, and if the
branches extended to a distance of 10 miles on each side of
the line, and to 20 miles from the terminus, it would com-
prise a population of 700,000 fouls. One of the advantages
of the line was, that it would get rid of the ferries
of the Frith of Forth and the Frith of Tay.
A very large amount of passengers was expected. Be-
tween Dut.dee and Glasgow there was a considerable traffic in
gc ods expected. From Dundee to Glasgow a large amount
of linen, canvass sacking, and Baltic produce would be con-
veyed, and from Glasgow to Dundee, colonial produce, Irish
provisions, and grain would be conveyed. Between Perth
and Glasgow there would be a traffic from the former to
the latter place in grain, meal, and manufactured goods, and
from the latter to the former place in flax, iron,
and colonial produce. It would afford a cheap means
of conveyance for the Bannockburn coals to Perth,
to which place the supply of coals was inconvenient and ex-
pensive, having to be carted twenty-five miles. There were
petitions against the Bill from Mr. Johnson, of Kincardine,
from certain inhabitants of Perth, who opposed the Bill on
account of the proposed scheme interfering with the North
and South Inch ; but he begged to say that the pro-
prietors generally of the counties of Perth and Stirling were
in favour of the Bill.
Mr. Caorrox appeared for the Edinburgh and Northern
line, and begged of the Committee to reserve a right to him
of cross-examining the witnesses in support of the Scottish
Central line with respect to a certain,elause in the Bill.
Mr. PONSONBY claimed a similar right on behalf of Lord
Kinnaird, the Chairman of the Dundee and Perth line.
Mr. Sidny, Provost of Perth, was then called and ex-
amined in support of the facts stated by Mr. Talbot, and was
cross-examined by Mr. Tytler, who appeared in support of
the petition from those inhabitants of Perth who opposed the
line on account of interfering with the South Inch. The
effect of the evidence of this gentleman was, that Perth
would be considerably benefited by the proposed railway;
that the Inch near the town was used as a place of recrea-
tion, and that it would be occupied to a certain extent by the
proposed railway.
Mr. George Buchanan, the owner of a cotton mill near
Perth, gave testimony corroborative of the evidence of the
former witness ; after which the Committee adjourned till
Twelve o'clock to. morrow.

BLACKBURN, BURNLEY, ACCRINGTON, AND
COLNE ; OR EAST LANCASHIRE RAILWAY.

Group D.
The adjourned Committee met this afternoon at half-pass
two, and immediately proceeded to business; Mr. Berm.
in the Chair. A clause regulating the maximum of rates
which had been directed to be added to the Bill, and which
had been prepared by Mr. Coates, the agent, since
the last meeting of the Committee, was submitted by him.
The clause limits the tolls for first-class passengers, including
use of carriage, &c., to 4d. per mile ; and for second and third-
class passengers carriages will be provided to travel at the
rate of twelve miles per hour, and the tolls will be restricted
to id. per mile,