The Sun.
London, England, 1826-04-11 00:00:00

POTTERIES:

- -
Mr. MIME gave notice that he should, on Monday next,
move for a 'select Committee, on the subject of Earthenware.
Mr. LITTLETON said that he would not be prevented by
the Hon. Member's notice, nor any resolution to which the
House might come upon it, from moving the second reading of
his Bill, which he considered of the greatest importance.
ABOLITION OF SLAVERY.

Mr. V. WYNN ',resented a petition from a district in
Wales, praying the abolition of slavery in our Coloniet.
Mr. CALCH AFT presented a similar petition from Ware-
ham.
EAST INDIA WRITERS RILL.
On the motion of 111 r. W. W VNN. the East India Writers
Dill wee ordered to he committed on Friday next.
Sir J. NEWPORT gave notice of a motion for AVednesday,
the nature of which we could not collect.
PRIVATE DISTILLATION (SCOTLAND).
The House went into a Committee on the Report of the Com-
mittee ,to inquire into the necosity of preventing Private Distil-
lation in Scotland.
The House having resumed, the Report was brought up and
agreed to, anti leave given to bring in a Bill to that effect.
LEATHER ANC) SKINS' ACT.
On the motion of Mr. LIE ititlEB, the Leather and Skins'
Act went through a Committee.— Report to-morrow (this day).
_

ASSESSED TAXES COM POSITION 1111,1.4.
On the Motion of Mr. HERRIES, the Ilouse went into a
Committee on the Assessed Taxes Composition MI
A short conversation took place, in which Sir M. W. Ridley,
Mr. R. Colborne, Mr. Berries, and Mr. Hume, took a part.
After which,
Mr. Alderman WOOD objected to the 13W, on the ground
that it rent to continue the Assessed Taxes .for three years
longer, which he considered a great grievance.
AIL HERMES said, that when tt should be ihund expedient
to make a further reduction of Taxes, this Bill could be no im-
pediment to their doing so.
Mr. MAMMA' objected to a continuance of the Assessed
Taxes, anti would take an early opportunity of moving for their
repeal. lie wished to take that opportunity Of giving notice
that he should diuide the House upon that part of his motion,
which had for ita object the repeal of the House and Window
Tax.

-31 r. HOLIHOUE rose to address the House, but a division
having been called for upon the second resolution, the Hon.
Member rem-lined his seat. •

_ ..... _
The (Jallery way then cleared for a division, but though
strangers were for some time excluded, no division took place.
The Juries in India hill was read a second time and passed.

The Irish Manor Courts' Bill was real a second time:
CIVIL LisT.—SALARV TO THE PRESIDENT OF

THE BOARD OF TRADE.

t
tw yr tut on
from he
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
n
the
o Reapso
Cthlevictiisrt.Aets be brought up, and the tines-

Mr. HOBHOUSE opposed the motion. He should be guilty
he thought, of a frees dereliction ()rainy. it' he did not protest
against this proceeding, and express his astonishment that
Ministers should select this peculiar time for a most uncalled
for argUmentstion of the burdens of the country, and for
needless addition to the placemen and pensioners who already
had leant in this House. In bringing forward his budget, the
Chancellorof the Exchequer had feelingly complained of being
encumbered with what he was pleased to. term_‘' paltry patron-
practice agreed with his
infseifie•s'sYttemt's,sl4iisirtitrost'hacetwafhtoerviwlarte itivia% to endeavour to split one
placeman into two, in order to give 31inisters an additional vote.
t he House, then, had a right to expect that sonic good ground
shotild be made nut for such an extraordinary course. A 1)3-
rallel might be drawn from Church patronag,; it was known,
that its the Bishoprie of Bristol wits endowed with small reve-
nues, the late Bishop and the present were allowed also to en-
joy the emoluments- derived from the Mastership of Trinity
College. What then would be said to a proposition to_augment
the revenues ot'. the Bishopric for the sake of separating
from it the other office, which-hitherto had been coupled with
it ? No man pretended that the president of the Board of Trade
was incompetent to discharge tl,te duties of Treasurer of .the
Navy, and all that the Right Hon. Gent. (3lr. Huski.soo) had
urged was, that he should bewitch more comfortable if his Sa-
lary were increased, and his labours diminished. But the ques-
tion Was not whether the Right lion. Gentlenten deserved more
or less. but whether an addiuotial place ought to he in the gift
of the Crown ? It was true that the Treawrership Of the Navy
was su trivient.
was no sinecure; but a Right Honourable Gentlemen who had
held it twenty years ago, had declared, and had not ciern-con
very pertinent question heti.
tradieted, that an attendance of one hour per day
Much had been said of the anxious responsibility of the.offi,-e,'
atiniadttlainextestritjt:esn
powansi,bwilliietythr 15001. a year should be paid foe
been put on Friday to the Chancellor of the Exchtqueron this
point, whence it appeared that the anxious re,ponsibility
amounted to nothing, and that though in his time there had
.been two heavy defaulters, he had not been- called upon to. pay
a single farthing of the sum lost. -if the oflicerwere nut .re.

eponsible with his fortune, he was not responsible at all ; and it
was a mere farce to talk about it. Supposing, however, that
there were any, it was wholly unnecessary, since the business of
the:office ought to be so arranged as to render it impossible
that the public should he losers. What, hen, was the reason
for this addition ? The Right Honourable Gentleman did not
want the money—he had obtained rewards far above pecuniary
compensation, and it was heard upon him that his well-earned
popularity should be obliged to carry weight—(hear hear !)
that Ministers should endeavour to take' advantage of it, in
order to fasten upon it a measure altogether unjustifiable
From his unwillingness to chew the slightest disrespect to the
President of the Board of Trade. he hardly knew how to shape
his motion, but as he was bound to resist this proceeding, he
should take the course of protesting against the Report. Out
of doors but one opinion prevailed on the subject, where it
was considered, as the Honourable Member for Taunton (Mr.
Baring) had termed it—a Ministerial job. it had been urged
hat formerly the two offices had existed separately, as if it
were any reason for the vote to say that it was fit to revive an
exploded absurdity—that experience was to be of no use, and I
that because it hid been found very convenient and proper to
unite them, they were now to be disunited. It was a hard case
upon the House—upon the King's Ministers—aye, and upon
the King's Opposition, too--( Hear ! and latighter),—that they
were to be dragged through the mire, because it was thought
proper by certain individual to pursue the course now recom-
mended. He (Mr. Hobhouse) called upon the Chancellor of
the Exchequer to put his hand upon his heart, and declare as a
conecientioueenan, and not us an intriguing AI inister, that this
proposal ought to be adopted. To him it seemed a wanton at-
tempt to increase the already swollen number of Pjacemen with
seats in Parliament. Nothing could more plainly spew the
distress of Minister` upon this occasion, than the fact, that the
President of the Board of Trade himself, had been obliged to
Make a speech in favour of the motion, although he had done
so in very good taste. He (Mr. Hobhouse) begged it to he
understood that he had bestowed all praise upon the merits of
the President,of the Board of Trade—thut in resisting the
bringing up of the Report, he had not the slightest personal re-
ference, and that he did merely to give Hon. Members an op.
portunity of dissenting from the doing an unnecessary act, in
an unconstitutional mode.
Lord GLENORCHY seconded the Amendment, and ob-
served upon the obvious difference between the principles and
the practice of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Ministerial
influence in this House was already inure than sufficient, since
many benches were filled with those who were phicemen, and
pensioners of the Crown.
31r. CANNING—On a question of so much personal feel-
ing on this and the other side of time House, he was very anxious
before Hon. Gentlemen came to a vote, to state, as briefly and
'as plainly as possible, his view o( the question. He could not
give a much better proof of his disposition to treat the mat-
ter with all fairness, than to assure the lion. Gentleman who
spoke last but one, that he would not take advantage of time
opportunity the amendment efforded of stating, that the Hon.
Gentleman meant to offer an obstruction to the wholes plan,
when, in fact, the opposition was only directed to one particu.
lar part of that plan. It could not be understood, after what
bad 'passed, that the amendment implied the slightest blame
or disparagement of the President of the Board of 'ltalie.
(Hear, bear !)--The Hon. Member (Mr. 11ohhoteee) had naked
why the present unfavourable time was taken for introducing
such a proposition ? The answer was plain : the question, in
fact, originated with those wham the lion. Gentletnan had
designated his Majesty's Opposition.—( Hear ! and laughter.)
Government had not entertained the slightest intention of
proposing the change until the suggestion came from the
other side of the. House in a former Session. This suggestion
had certainly been made under better auspices—when the
pecuniary affairs of the country,had a more flourishing aspect,
but the time was the misfortune,. not the fault of Ministers;
it was their misfortune to be obliged to bring forward this
question at a moment less favourable than that at which the
suggestion had been made ; that suggestion was received with
acclamation, although the motion was now met with critical
objections. The hint having been given in the last year,
Minister, thought that they could not shrink from the adop-
tion of it in the present. He could further inform the
Honourable Gentleman, that Ministers had received an inti-
metion, from what they conceived good authority, that it' Go-
vernment did not stir in this business, some Member of the
Opposition would, so that, in point at' time at least, those
who brought forward the vote were completely exempted from
responsibility. If he were compelled to purehase one of these
offices, by the sacrifice of the other, he would certainly sacri-
fice the. Presidency of the Board of Trade, and retain that of the
Treasurership of time Navy. This he would do with a view to
the general advantage of the Government, rather than come to
the compromise which wits not claimed. Look back to the his-
tory of time two Mikes. It scented to be contended that they were
so naturally united, that nothing but the most barbarous policy
ever separate them. The Board of Trade had existed long be-
fore the time of Mr. Bu rkeYe Speech on Economical Reform—
a speech which still remained as 'a monument of his genius.
The salary of the President of the Board of Trade was from
8,0001. to 10,000/. This was abolished by Ur. Burke's means,
anti other Officers of Government undertook the duties of the
office. At the same time Mr. Burke recommended some re.
fbrms in the offices of Treasurerof the Navy and Paymaster of
the Army on the same principles, aural, therefore, what he said
as to the one applied to the other. What, then, was Mr.
Burkes proposal with respect to the Treasurership of the
Navy, which was then an office of great emolument ? Did he
propose to abolish it, or say that the Treasurer ought not to
have a seat in Parliament ? No such thing. Ile proposed that
the public money, which then yielded great emolument to the
officer, should be placed in time Bank, but, at the acme time,
he said, " God forbid that he should wish to touch the regular
emolument% of an important office, usually held by men of the
highest rank," meaning, of course, rank in talents and esid-
hence in the house of Comthons. The public money, then,
according to 31r. Burke, on; ht to be kept at the bank; but he
hail no idea of abolishing an office venerable for its antiquity,
anti generally held by men of the most eminent talents in the
liouse of Commone. The hoard of Trade was then abolished,
and its deities thrown upon other officers of Government ;
and in 1785, a Bill passed, placing the office of Treasurer of
the Navy upon the fboting which it stood till 1817, time pubic
money kept in the Bank, and time Treasurer's salary being
4,000/. But the office had been held as often alone us coujnined
with another. It was true that 31r. Demdas 'held it while he
was at the same time President of the Board of Controul. In
1790 the Presidency of time Board of Controul became a salaried
office, the- salary being 2,000/. in contemplation of the 4,000/.
Which Mr. Duntitum as Treasurer of the Navy, on the 'principle
that the emolument might be about equal to that of Secretary
of State. Thus time metier stood till 1709. when Mr. Ryder
succeeded to the office ml` freesurer of the Navy, but not w time
Homed of Controul. In 1801, Mr. Bathurst succeeded to the
office of Treasurer of' the Navy, and held it without any other
office. In 1803, the Right onourable Gentleman opposite
(Me Tierney) held the Treasurership without any other office.
In 1804, he himself (Mr. Canning) minceeeded to time Treasurer..
ship, and held it without aly other office. In 1806, Mr. Sheri.
dan succeeded him, and held the office separately. Li 1807,
Mr. Rose succeeded Air. Sheridan in this office, and held it
_along with the of Vice- Preeident of the Board of Trade,
anti so the matter stood till 1812. In that year Mr. Rose
ceased to be Vice-Preeieent of the Board of 'l'ratie, and held
the office of' Treasurer of time Navy alone for six years atm,
till the day, of his mleath ; so that it was a total mistake to sup-
pose that this office was always held jointly with another office
it had been held quite as often alone. The office was certainly
not a sinecure. elliet the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
(Mr. Tierney) had said on a former night, he (Mr. Canning)
said now—that the Treasurer of the navy, being an officer
I high in public trust, ought to hold his bane end his udents at
the disposal of Government, in order 'to spare those servants of
Government who were generally over-laboured, This was not
merely his opinion—he Was stating only what had been said by
a Committee of that House in 1/117, et the time Mr. Rose held
the office alone, exclusive of any other office, with a t r y eu
4,000/. In the Report of that Committee, dated the 23d of
June in that year, he found the folloiving observations
" They esteem the salary paid to the Treasurer of the Navy as
Much too large, and recommend a reduction on
been
eneyn futurel te lately
y
• inumett to that eo us to place it on a level in respect
at elbiolument with the Perimeter of the forces, its present
)4.lel4l9ygtftmleLleg7,l)lemau:ertl::;"(timthliotricewsnill'etthe office heti, been
, vie. from 1604 to 105, while the eateries of the Lords of the
irfbiteLdrtva:ati Yr titni;bl,:trl.‘r''.'it'iutalt. to
led uels? "Nil
per
rei a
nti:noluwt inleDive:tree:htehe xi:takunrity,
4‘mtfatmleirT3irttYeeswr;reet, 413'1' 't'itmeT:r Nesee.en.; tv,oi(msoln.te less than 1,000!. Crp
anntori,
and there ie no doebt, that besides his official duties,
the Treasurer or thv Navy l'.as keen frequently looked to as the

person to whom important Parliamentary and political businesd,.
connected with the naval department, and the general concerns
of Government, Should he confided. Whether these latter can.
siderations will induce the House to continue the salary of
4,0001. or reduce it to 3,0001 a or any Other %dm, it is for. '
your elemmittee to inquire. They hate not in any case cone- -
dered themselves Called upon to enter into political considerae.„
done of this nature, and have recommended the reduction heree-- •
inlietbre proposed, on a mere view of the duties of the office
itself, and on a principle of assimilation to the Paymaster of
the Forces." ThiS was not his language, but that of the
Finance Committee of 1817, from which it evidently appeared
to be in the contemplation of the Committee, that there might`
exist, properly, certain Akre, the holders of which might
have time to spare from the particular concerns of their own
departmesits, for the general business tif, the Government, and
they alluded to one case—that of Parliamentary business, to
which such pereons had to attend. 'lhere were various Com— •
mittees, especially, in which they might be called upon to
; and his Right HOnoitrable Friend, at this moment,.
was Chairman of a most laborious Committee. There watt soy
thing which contributed so much to break down the physi-
cal strength of a Noble Lord (Castlereagh), whom he was not
worthy to have succeeded, as his laborious exertions in a Select
Committee of that House. So that it was contemplated by their
own Committee, that there ought to exist offices of this descrip-
tion for the general business of Government. The statements'
of the Gentlemen opposite, the other night were Various. One
said, that the two offices of President of the Board of Trade, .
and Treasurer of the Navy, ought to be ineepeeablyjoinede-a
Another thought that the salary of the Treasures of the Navy
ought to be diminished ; and others objected to this measure;
on die ground, that. the design was to get another *ate in Par-'
liamenn The Gentlemen opposite had confessed, that Go-
vernment had done some good things ; but, on this Sup-
posed object of Ministers to catch another vote, they had e
bestowed every vituperative epithet that could be applied to'
it. Now he insisted that the present Government had
shown no disposition to increase the ptoronage of the Crown,
ur to make offices for the sake of votes. The Honourable and.
Learned Member for Caine (Mr. Abercrombie) had adverted
to the office of Vice-Treasurer for Ireland, and some others;
but the office of Vice-Treasurer for Ireland was no new office ' •
it existed before, under another denomination. Then, wins':
'respect to the Master of the Mint, he was at the head of an,
important commission, with a salary attached to it. But when-
Mr. Wallace was made Master of the Mint, his salary us Come'
missioner had been diminished, although it was a most popular'
commission, and one whose acts had been always highly
praised. He claimed, therefore, fair credit for the assertion, that
when the present Government wished to retain an office, it was
because they honestly thought such an office ought to exist
and not with a view to increase their influence in Parliament.'
IVhat did it signify to them to gain a few single votes ? They
did not want such single votes. Government must be supported
by the confidence and trust reposed in it by the great body of'
the House and the country, and was not reduced to the neces-
sity of canvassing for a few single votes. If' matters came raY.,
that pass that Ministers mustdepend for their support on ten or
twenty votes, it would be time for them to think of resigning
their offices. The present Government had even been very lax
on this point, and had not insisted upon many Officers being'
in Parliament who really ought to be there ; and he intended to!
bring that Matter under consideration. lie remembered'
when Mr. Pitt, who was kimself equal in debate to any ten
or twelve men of the present day, was supported by the-
Master of the Rolls (Sir William Grant), and the Master of
the Rolls sat in Parliamelft until Sir Thomas Plomer Was ap-
pointed to theoffice. It was clear, then, that the present Go.
vernment had shewn no disposition to create offices, in order to'
catch single votes in Parliament. There was another instance,
in the case of one who held an office-which bore some relation,
with respect to the civil law, to the office of Attorney-General,
who had formerly usually sat in Parliament, and had no seat
there at present. In 1804, he remembered, when a very warm
and long debate arose on a certain occasion, the whole brunt
ofit fell on the Master of the Rolls and the King's Advocatee
In what period wits there such a number of the profession of
the law among his Majesty's Opposition as existed there at the
present moment ? What an advantage then would it have been
to the Ministers, to have had the Master of the Bolls and the
King's advocate in the House on such occasions, for instance;
ns the occurrence of these Chancery Debates, and others of *
similar nature, which lawyers alone could best understand ?.
Then Ministers had against them two eminent civilians (allud-
ing, as we understood, to Sir J. al ackintoeh and Dr. Lashing=
ton), and what an advantage would it have neen to the Mini*«
tees, even in that view, to have the assistance of the
Master of the Rolls, the King's Advoeate, and the Judge
Advocate, another officer who had Generally a seat in that
House 1 Never, till the time of the present Governmente
had these three officers been dispensed with in Parliament.
From these inscances it must be clearly seen that the Govern:
meat had shewn no disposition to increase 'theft influence in
Parliament by means of the votes of a few men in office,
since Ministers had not taken advantage of opportunities of
bringing veldt officers into Parliament. They had neglected
these opportunities, although they might have brought the*
officers into Parliament, without Mtn-ding the slightest good
ground of objection to the Gentlemen opposite. rids was a
proof, 'that in wishing to divide these two offices, Ministers
were not actuated by any motive of Pitrliamentary influence ;
and they only wished to retain the offices, with the power of
sitting in Parliament, because it was their sincere conviction,
that the course they were pursuing was beneficial to the country.
It wale hardly possible really to think, that their object was tt,
increase their Influence in Parliament, when it was known that
they had neglected so many opportunities of bringing men high
in office into that House. Then, with respect to the ditninutioft
I.)f the salary, and the exclusion of the Treasurer of the Navy
from Parliament, he objected to. this latter proposition more
than to any other that had been suggested. He onjected to the.
principle of excluding from Parliament Officers in. high sitiea-
lions under the Crown. It was of the greatest importance.to
the country, that the Crown should look to the Houses of Par-
liament for persons to till high and responsible public situations.
He knew no law that prevented the Crown from making 44
one who was not in Parliament its Prime Minister. But he had
never heard it said, that it would be a good thing for the country
that the Crown should choose for Ministers persons not in
Parliament. What would be the efl'ect of the Crown not lotz .
ing to Parliament for its officers? Was this net a most useful
check to the dowsing of Ministers upon a system of mere fit.-
youritism ? Was it not beneficial to the country that the Mi.
Msters of the Crown should be men well known in that House
—men who had been long In the public eye, and had proved
in Parliament their fitness for office ? %Vas not this a rat
security to the public for the efficiency of the officers of Govern-
ment, that they should, appeat in Parliament and' move thiele
capacity for their situations ? There were certain offices
whose possessors stould not be excluded from -Parliament,
without lowering the standard of thrGovernment, and such. lip
office was the Treastnerehip of the Navy. For the sake of ,a
vote, it winds' not be ,worth while to the Govetoment to take
the tumble of debating this question. Ile gave his opinion
with perfect disinterestedness, because it did not signify a hair
to the Government, with a view to a vote, whether the Teed_
curer of the Navy should be in Parliament or not. But tbe
consequence of excluding such officers from Parliament, would
be to make the high offices of State subjects for scramble among
mere favourites. The Gentleman opposite might, themselves,
soon succeed to these offices, and he was, therefore, doing theta
a great favour in resisting their proposition.—(A laugh.)—lf it
were acted upon, then they would have for the great offices of
State person, of no higher qualifications for them than those of
bankers' clerks. The perliumentary character ought never to
he sepereted, from high and honourable office, and-never could
be so separated, without great injury to the pubic, and' the
loss of that highs respectability which the Government of' this
country generally maintained. So muck, then, for the notion
of excluding the Treasurer Of the Navy from Parliament,
and now one word with respect to the salary. That salary
was before 4,0001. per annum ; and at the present time it wet
3,000/. It was now proposed to reduce it to 2,0001, He
knew no principle upon which any one of these scums ithonid be
preferred to the others e but where he could not find a resstnit,
he must look for a ride, and a rule might often sew 'for a
re""i• lie found, in the Report of the Finance CoroalVe4
a statement, that when this office was held :Jane, it AIL",
put on the towing of :net of Paymaetet of the Tv'erh kit;
then, was a I ; anti es t! case mentioned hYTAListTdrinac,
Was now likely to arise, ti.at rule might be ania'l7o6/. „ear,
The salary of the Payno,sti,r of •the wfr,., 04 Naii.
house. It
„lift
27,0zy fliesettotti!eh,ti:2lE4itiet,„confritseihuoosivsee,
Ile hail at"te't Vie rewuns, h'h,,Teit't; le; e 'moved- front
Why the Treasurer of tic Navy ,e",,,F,detttery to b
atgn die'third
his seat in Parliament. It ';;I:y of the offices of Pfesident.
of the ftoTt!hikt'ocl'"nc''lrtret elf Lls .Navy, isa
the'

piety of that measure had not been attempted to be maintained
by any body in the course of the debate.—(Cheers.)
Mr. TIERNEY—The question we have to discuss, is not
.whether the office of the Treasurer of the Navy should be alio-
. tatted, as the Right Hon. Gentleman has argued it, and as any
Ifember entering the =Howse during his speech must have sup.
pissed it to be. Nobody on my side of the House has dreamed
of any such proposition, or hinted at it in any shape. lam
glad to see so many Members coming in at this moment. We
shall, I trust, have a fair start now.—(A laugh.)—The true and
only question before us is, whether the Salary of the President
of the Board of Trade shall be increased 2,0001. mote than
he now receives; and I beg that we may not be talked out
of it. Now, what, I ask, has that question to:do with the in.
iluence. of the Crown, er any of the other topics which the
Right lionountble otn has pressed_ into his service this
evening? All that has been said is, that this measure will in-
crease the are
of the Crown' by the creation of one office
entire than ara actually existing. My Honourable Friend (Mr. ►
.10bhouee) calls us his Majesty's Opposition, and I think it it
an excellent phrase.—(Laughter.)—el ought to know something
es to its, correctness, for it has hcen my lot to be zea-
lously uppuCed to his, Majesty's Government—though lat-
terly, since, they have acted upon principles which scented
to me to entitle them to public approbation, I have to the
utmost extent of my. power sopported them. My Honour..
able Friend could not have invented a better phrase to de.
&gnaw us than that which he has adopted, for we are cer.
wady, to all intents, a branch of his Majesty's Government.—
( Laughter.)—lts proceedings for some time past ellen proved,
that, though the Gentlemen opposite are in office, we are in
power.—(Cheers.)—=The measures are ours, but all the emolu-
ments are theirs.—(Cheers, and laughter.)—lt appears, by the
Right Ilonourable Geraktium's chewing, that this is our mo-
tioth—(lletti 1)---lie contends that we have no right to oppose=
it, because it was we who originally suggested it. It is in my
opinion immaterial from what pouter the suggestion proceed.
ce. I believe an Honourable I: riend of mine (Mr. Baring) did
say that he considered the salary inefficient to the labour re.
mitred by the duties of the office, and the great talents with
which they were at this moment discharged. But this mugges.
tiOn was thrown out last Session, anti no fault was found on
our side of the house this Session ; because no notice had been
taken of the suggestion. But it seems to have lain heavily on
the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Canning). Ile steps
forward to relieve himself, and, as he assures us, to gratify us
laugh);—and he says " I will accede to your wishes; I will
take the salary you suggest for one office, and I will keep the
other office with the salary just as it is"—(cheers.)—No
wonder that we did not know our own child. Under his
nursing, he lied changed it. for a lusty bantling, in the
shape of a new Treasurer of the Navy—(laughter)—an office
- which I undertake to prove utterly useless, in a sense which
I, will hereafter explain. The Right Honourable Gentleman
says that we are not sufficiently on the alert with regard to
our own interests; and he has declared that Government is in
no want of such supporters as it may gain from this Measure.
1 Liar from him widely. I think that Government do want
support. I never saw a Session when they wanted it more—
(bear, hear !).—The Right Honourable Gentletnah may not be
aware of the full extent of his obligations to this side of the
House ; but I can assure him, that it', as he asserts, he would not
consent to stay in office with a pitiful majority of 20, lie would,
without our support, have been long ago driven from his present'
honours. If we tithe away our support, out he must go to-
morrow.—(A laugh.)—The Right Hon. Gentleman has taken
credit somewhat tea largely for the reduction of the official seats
in this House. True, we have lately had no Master of the
Rolls here. But Sir Thoanu Plumer, towards the close of his
life, could not, if he would, have given his personal support
•to the measures of Government. His infirmities rendered him
incapable of attending. If we have, no Master of time Rolls now
in this House, it is because he is in another place, where he is
required to he bodily present for the aid and support of
the Lord Chancellor.--(Laughter and cheers.) —But the Right
'lionourahlu Gentleman complains that the Opposition is made
up of lawyers. It is true that we breed some lawyers on this
aide, but is also true that we sometimes breed theni for the
,Other side of the House._.(Laughter.? —Hell their strength
has (mine out of our nursery, not much improved certainly
by, transplanting.-e( laughter.)—" You have two civilians,"
the Right Honourehle Gentleman says; " there is' an ad-
vantage l" But what bee he, let me ask ? fie has one Ci.
vilian (Dr. Phillimore),—and a Judge in the Ecclesiastical
Count (Sir J. Nichol!), who is at least worth two Civilians.
—The Learned Civilian (Dr. Phillimore) was not seated at the
pow d ot'Controul purely on account of his attachment to In- •
din affairs. lie no doubt considers the 1,5001. a year he re.
civet as a general retaining fee for the support he is to render
to time !tight Honourable Gentleman, who, on his part, seems
to think that the mouient a Lawyer accepts office, he is bound
to vote with his party through thick and thin. As to lawyers
•-in general, there are surely enough on the other side of the
House. They have the AttorneyAirmerel and the Solicitor.
General, and time Chief Justice of Chester—he, by the bye, is
one they have borrowed of us—(a laugh)--and They have a
Welch Judge, and perhaps they will have Mr. Keswick next—
(laughter), whsle we only have those who maintain their sta-
tion by the independent exercise of their talent. The real
question before us, however, is, whether the proposed salary of
6,0001. shall be given to my, Right Hon. Friend the President
of the Board of Trade, in consideration of the great ability
With which he has filled that office ? That is the footing on
Which I. wish to see time question stand. I mean to centiliter
;the proposition as a compliment to the Right Honourable (In-
tim en ( r. Usk isson), for lam net convinceal that his office
ought permanently to belong to the Cabinet. 1 mini thy:amble
to the propoaition, because I am of opinion that Government
will be strengthened by increasing the rank and importance of
ibis officer. I therefore heartily hope lie mite have the Mtg.
'Mutation desired. The Right Honourable' Secretary (Mr.
Canning) 14mys, that time suggestion original), came front our
atide. So let it be, if' he pleasee ; but in what shape did it go
front us ? Why, undnubtedly, as 'a suggestion to add 2,000/.
to the salary of 3,000/. already received by Right lion.
Ftiend (Mr. fluekiseon) as Treasurer of the Navy. Their
less reason for giving a large separate salary to the Pre-
sident of the Board of 'Trade, as it is the necessary tendency
of the labours of ray Right linnourable Friend to reduce the
number and *eight of the duties( of diet office in future. As
to the incompatibillity of the two offices which he now fills;
wiil any Honourable Gentleman in this House lay hie hand on
.big heart end say, that he verily believes any inconvenience'
tee resulted to the public service, or to time individuals holding
'those offices, during the last six years ? I will by every means
eippese this attempt to make 'the Presidency of the Board of
:`,Priale a substantive office. I regard it as a wanton waste of
,the public nosey ; anti 1 am equally opposed to the miserable
, project for reducing the salary of time Treasurer of the Navy
from 3,0001. to 2,5001., in order that it may be given to some-
, body fur Itheaupport in this House and for aught that I know,
too, toa law eer•—( Laughter and cheers.)
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided. The numbers were—For the motion, 87; against
; Majority for Ministers, 11.
On our return, we found Mr. CANNING addressing the
=Linu V. The hoise occasioned by the rushing of the strangers
into the Gallery disabled us from distinctly hearing the Right
*Honourable Gentleman, who spoke in a very low tone. .We
understood him to express his regret that the timeliness of the
majority would prevent him from persevering in the course,
wiefein as is matter of principle, lie hail conscientiously sup-
. posted ; but which, as a matter of expediency, he now felt
himself bound, under ell the circumstances of the case, to
-abandon. The expression of opinion had, undophtedly, been
very strong, and his illejesty's Government would riot further
-press the metoure. As it seems to be the wish of the House,
they would consent to the union of the ancient office of the
Treasurer or the Navy with tharof. time President of time Board
=of Trathe—alear, hear !)
Mr. TIElt NEY rose, with heart-felt pleasure, to assure his
Majesty's Government that they had, by this act, justly earned
th a appro hation of his Majesty's Opposi t ion Laughter.)
• The miANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that his
Right Honourable Friend had intimated the course which Go-
veniment intended on thie occasion to pursue. It was his duty
to carry Om intention into effect, and it appeared to him con-
eietent with right feeling, and with a due sense of what belong-
cut to his situation, to entree, the propoeltion himself, without
coffering any restraint froth false, shame.-.-.(Hear, hear I)
Many severe and groundless imputations had been cast upon
Government in the course,of the debate, but it was not fleece-
eery to do more at that time than to notice and repel them ge-
aerally. lie felt it his duty to move, " That the resolution be
amended by Inserting the sum of 2,0001. as the salary of the
rededdent of the Board of Trade, instead of 5,000/.
Sir M. W. seconded the amendment, which he had
• intended to move himself, if the Right Hon. Gentleman had
„ .
net anticipated him.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said a few words, which were
not audible in the Gallery:
Mr. 111111 hi said, he wished to have his word too (a laugh).
)ire would be happy to see Government oftener act as they were
then deioee. If' time Opposition would attend more to their
Joy, lie reticulated upon a great deal more attemion to the wants
sod interests of the people, and he hoped that much would yet
be done the their benefit before Parliament rose.
Reeoliition, as amended by the CH ANCEI,I4OII of the
); Niugpa, was then agreed to, and a Bill ordered to be
brought in to carry the, same into effect.
cIIARTUH. AMENDMENT BILL.
The WI A NCEi,t.OU of 'the EXCHEQUER said he had
, some verbal amendments to make in We Bill, for which pur.:
peeto he would avail iiitheelfof the Order of the Day for having
ilhenzeromitted. He also intended subsequently to move One
tie tweeonindmititeef ono consequence; but the House Would
Ate bees* *wise undeposeid.dlem lithe blanks were previouslY

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