The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-21 00:00:00

RAILWAYS.

The examination of Mr. Stephenson (continued from our After-
noon Edition of yesterday)—Taking Stafford.on-Avon as the centre
with a similar radius of ten miles, the population accommodated by a
line traversing the district, would be 68,724. He proposed to effect a
junction between Worcester and Birmingham by a deviation branch
through Bristol and Gloucester, which, leaving the Severn and pro-
ceeding to Droitwich, would diverge a mile and a half thence to the
Birmingham and Gloucester line. The highest speed generally em-
ployed on the London and Birmingham line with the narrow gauge
was 30 miles an hour; the weights of four first Blass carriages tilled
with passengers from 20 to 23 tans; the heaviest engine that was
any where employed weighed 22 tons, but the heaviest 14. inch
cylinder and 18-inch stroke engine, running on the London and
Birmingham, was under 14, perhaps not exceeding 13, tons.
Re-examined by Sergeant WRANGIIAM—Was not interfered
with by ether director, agent, landholder, or other influential
party, but consulting alone his own conviction as to the most in-
expensive and easy and accommodating line, he had selected the
one now proposed. There was no difficulty whatever in attaining
greater speed on a narrow than could ever be employed on a
broad gauge.
Mr. Dockery, examined by Sergeant WRANGIIAM—Is resident
Director of the London and Birmingham line, and, under the
direction of Mr. Stephenson, surveyed the line for the present
scheme, and drew up an estimate of its cost. The total sum which
he accordingly computed as necessary for the entire construction
was 3,040,0001., of which 2,700,000/. was allotted for the
portion of the line to Dudley, 348,843/. for earth work,
and the remainder for works and other contingencies.

Cross-examined by Mr. ALLEN—Surveyed the line to Stour.
bridge under the orders of Mr. Stephenson, and was enjoined to
follow the valley line, He was not requested to make any exami-
nation to test the possibility of forming a line to Dudley without
tunnelling.

Mr. Saunders, a land.surveyor, was examined by Sergeant
WRANGllAM—Estimated the compensation for 84 acres of land,
including buildings, at 188,1501.
Mr. Wood, examined by Sergeant WRANGHAM—Is a civil en.
gineer, and, from his considerable experience in that capacity, is
enabled to say that the confusion of gauges, and their meeting on a
line, would be necessarily attended with inconvenience, if not
danger.

Mr. Hawkshaw, being examined by Sergeant WRANGHAM,
merely confirmed the evidence of the preceding witness, as to tha
difficulty and danger of adopting the broad and narrow gauges on
the same lines.

Mr. Bury, the superintendent of locomotives on the London
and Birmingham Railway, deposed to the rate of speed attainable
or attained on that line. The average of the quicker trains was
now 37 miles an hour, and though a greater speed might be with
safety employed, yet when accidents did occur the consequences at
a lower velocity were less likely to be serious than at an increased
rate.

The evidence of this witness closed the case of the London and
Birmingham Company in support of the Bill.
Mr. DANIEL, on the part of the Birmingham and Gloucester
line, opposed the Bill of the Great Western for constructing the
branch from Worcester to Droitwich, there falling into the former
line. He contended that, independent of the principle of vested
rights, which he did not desire them to urge, when a
deviation from a certain existing line was admitted to be
necessary, it was much more consistent with justice as well as con.
venience, that its construction should be entrusted to the line from
which it would diverge, of whose original property it might almost
be deemed an integral part, than to a company which had travelled
from a distance, wholly foreign and unconnected w►th either the
existing railway or the community it would accommodate.
Mr. Mathew Plerpoint, a surgeon, of Worcester, on examination
by Mr. WHATELEY, Q. C., deposed to a pledge entered into by the
inhabitants of Worcester to support the branch from that
town to the Birmingham and Gloucester line, who, while feeling
consequently the binding character of the engagement, preferred
the deviation line as projected by the Great Western to the branch
diverging from the Birmingham and Gloucester.
Nothing material was elicited by the cross-examination of this
witness, whose evidence was solely confined to the feelings of the
localities and the comparative merits of the broad and narrow
gauge, on which latter subject he admitted his total ignorance.
At four o'clock, the Speaker having been announced at prayers,
the further examination of witnesses was adjourned.

Group L.

GUILDFORD, CHICHESTER, AND PORTSMOUTH
RAILWAY.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday,)

Mr. Clue, a manufacturer of naphtha and pyrougneous acid, at
a place about half way between Godalming and Petworth, stated
that he sent about two tons of goods a-week to London, at a cost
of 30s. per ton. He also dealt largely in the materials for hoops,
which also came chiefly to London. He used about 100 tons of
coals a year, which he got from Little Hampton, at a cost
of ss. 6d. a ton for carriage. He also deposed to the
difficulty and inconvenience of getting lime from Dunton. He
knew the line of the railway well, and he believed that it would
save him at least fifty per cent, in the cost of carriage of his
goods to London. His expense at present on that head
was about 2001. To the cross.examination of Mr. Rawlinson,
the witness stated that be expected that the cost
would by the railway amount to about 15s. a ton. The cost
was to be 10s. a ton for forty miles, but from this there was to
be a deduction of thirty per cent for the weight and distance.
Mr. Benjamin Challing, of Petworth, a grocer and spirit.mer.
chant, stated that he got his grocery from London, by waggon, at the
rate of 30s. a ton. We had also bacon, hams, and pork, and other
similar articles from Cork and Limerick, which were imported at
Arundel, from which place the carriage to Petworth was 83. a ton
by water, and 10s. a ton by land. If the goods could be landed
at Portsmouth, a great convenience would be obtained in saving
the loss of weight. He got his cheese from Lymington and Win.
cheater, and some from Fareham. The carriage from Winchester
was 355. a ton. The goods which came from Lymington were
brought by sea to Arundel, and thence to Petworth by river
and canal, the cost being efls. a ton. The formation
of this railway would be a saving of from 30 to 40
per cent. in carriage from most parts, and more than that from Lon-
don, and offered much greater advantages than the atmospheric
line, which was ton far off to be at all useful to Petworth. The
distance of the Chichester line was about three miles from the
town, but this he conceived would be no serious disadvantage.
Mr. James Monk, a grocer and dealer in Irish provisions at
Midhurst, confirmed the testimony of the previous witness. They
were about ten miles from Petersfield, and would be about three
miles from the station on the Chichester line.
Mr. Thomas Downer, a grocer, maltster, and dealer in Irish
provisions at Curdford, about four miles north-east of Petworth,
confirmed the testimony of the two previous witnesses, and stated
his impression that there was a general wish for the railway in his
neighbourhood. He sent about 700 quarters of malt to London,
but he suffered great inconvenience occasionally from the detention
of goods on the canal by frost and other causes.
Mr. George Turvill, a farmer at Shalford, on the road from
Guildford to Godalming, stated that they sold the bulk of their
corn at Guildford market. He also grazed largely during winter,
and purchased his stock in the neighbourhood of Weyhill ; and it
would be a great advantage to make a good communica-
tion with Guildford. At present they had to pass over a
road very expensive from tolls all the way both to Chichester and
Guildford. Petersfieldmarket was about one-fourth of the Chiches-
ter market, the latter being one of the best markets in the country.
It was of importance to have a choice of markets in the spring,
and this railway would provide it.
Mr. B. Horne, the coach proprietor at Charing-cress, stated
that before the railway was opened there were seven coaches to
Portsmouth, but that now there was only one which ran to Guild-
ford. There were two coaches both ways to Chichester daily, which
also stopped at Guildford The proprietors of these coaches had been
obliged to move their coaches from the Bricklayers' Arms-road to
a route which brought them in by Piccadilly. There was now
little accommodation on the road in the vicinity of Guild-
ford and Chichester. To the inquiries of Mr. Gurney,
Mr. Horne stated that three-quarters of the passengers
were taken up after the City Branch coach passed
westward of Temple.bar. To the cross-examination of Mr.
Ilawhnson, he replied that the Petersfield district was not so
thickly studded with gentlemen's seats as on the other line of
road, and the waybill never produced sufficient passengers
to support a short coach, and none had ever been
established from Petersfield alone. The coaches to Portsmouth
all ran from the City, but the Chichester coach ran to the Bolt-in-
Tun. The branch omnibus from the City started three-quarters of
an hour before the train, and the toll was from Bd. to Is. for a
pair-horse carriage. The cost of carriage of goods from the Vaux-
hall terminus to the City was from ss. to 6s. a ton. After the
Portsmouth branch of the railway was opened there was one coach
left, and all the passengers came into London by the west.end.
Mr. Silverlock, the ?layer of Chichester at the present
time, stated that he had during the greater part of his
life been connected with the trade of that place. He
confirmed the testimony of Mr. Home, and said there was an
omnibus to Chichester from the Woking station, two to Shore-
ham, a coach from Portsmouth through Chichester to Brighton;
there were also two coaches to the Shoreham station, and
he believed that the opening of this railway would greatly
increase the trade between different parts of the country, and the
line was decidedly the test for the town. Two petitions had been
presented in favour of it, one from the inhabitants, and another
signed by the Mayor and Town Council. Another had beets attempted
against it, but it had faded. He thought it very desirable to have
a direct communication with Portsmouth, and also with Guildford.
By the proposed line 2G miles of distance to Loadon, and a com.
munication would also be made with Havant and Fareham, which
neither of the other files proposed. The quantity of corn sent
from the neighbourhood of Chichester last year was about
18,000 quarters. There were two daily waggons to Fare-
ham, and one to Fareham, Chichester, and Portsmouth,
besides several carts every day. There were also a great number
to Brighton every day. This railway would bring the coals to
Chichester from the weer conveyance, and thus they would be ob-
tained more cheaply by Chichester in the surrounding
country than by Landon. The hoop trade would also
be greatly served by the formation of the railway.
The goods which came coastwise to Chichester last year were about
800 tons. He had hinaelf received last year between 400. and
500 tons of oil-cake fres' London, which he should have had down
by railway. The charge for goods coastwise was from 15s. to 20s.
a ton, and then there would be land carriage, so that he believed
that he should save about 00 per cent. on the carriage of his goods.
The station at Chicheste. was as conveniently placed as it could be
with propriety. The felting in the neighbourhood of Chichester
was now decidedly in favour of the proposed line, and that feeling
had been growing daring the last few months.
Mr. J. T. Haynlar, a nerchant and miller at Chichester, stated
that in his opinion the insufficiency of the communication between
Chichester and Guildferl was au impediment to the interest
of both towns, more than a day being required to go
from one to the other Ind back again. He dealt largely in
coals, but had lost gene business in consequence of the
coals being obtained cheaper from Little Hampton than he could
supply them; but he shotid recover his advantage by the forma.
Lion of the railway. He lad been in the habit of sending goods to
London, but delay, sometmea so much as a fortnight, frequently
occurred, and he should let goods now from London both cheaper
and quicker by rail than utter.

Mr. Wyatt, a farmer, atd coal and timber merchant, at Hems-
worth, stated that he suppled his own neighbourhood with coals,
and that he should get hiscoals cheaper by rail than he now did,

and that the projected line would be a great advantage to Chichester
and the whole of the neighbourhood around it.
At the conclusion of this witness's evidence the Committee ad-
journed ttll to-morrow at twelve o'clock.

Sub. Committee, No. 2.
BIRKENHEAD, MANCHESTER, AND CHESHIRE
JUNCTION RAILWAY.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

The Committee decided that the general allegation had not
been sustained. The next allegation was, that the notices pub.
lished In the Gazette and newspapers were inaccurate, inasmuch
as the said notices related to a railway to Manchester from the
Chester and Birkenhead Railway, and the proposed railway was not
intended to go beyond the Grand Junction Railway.
This allegation was sustained.
GUILDFORD, CHICHESTER, AND PORTSMOUTH RAIL.
WAY (FOR ADDITIONAL PROVISION).

In this case the standing orders had not been complied with.
The Committee adjourned at half past three.

Group FF.
NORTH BRITISH (EDINBURGH AND DALKEITH
LINE.)
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. WHATGLY, Q.C., on the part of Sir Robert Dick, of Pres-
ton field, Bart., objected to several clauses in the Bill, on the ground
that an agreement had been entered into between Sir Robert Dick
and the Directors of the Edinburgh and Dalkeith line, on the latter
applying for a Bill for the construction of that line, to the effect
that locomotive power should not be permitted to run ',thereon,
and that no terminus or station should be constructed on any part
of his (Sir R. Dick's) property. The Learned Counsel argued,
that inasmuch as the scope of this Bill was the attainment of ob-
jects which were strictly prohibited by the agreement entered into
between Sir Robert Dick and the Directors of the Edinburgh and
Dalkeith line, these clauses could not be entertained by this Com-
mittee.
Mr. TALBOT rose to speak, whereupon

The CHAIRMAN inteffered, and the room was cleared.
Upon our return,

The CHAIRMAN stated that the Committee had decided that Mr.
Talbot had no right to reply, and further, that Sir R. Dick's name
should be omitted in the clause.

Mr. CLARA then proceeded to make a similar objection on the
part of Mr. A. Wauchope, of Niddrie, and Mr. J. Wauchope,
whose names were included in the same clause, and who were
placed in the same situation as Sir R. Dick.
Mr. TALBOT said, there was an obvious distinction betwezn the
two parties, inasmuch as Sir R. Dick had provided in his agreement
that locomotive power should not be used, and that therefore he
might be said to have placed a limit to the traffic on the line; but
in the case of Messrs. Wauchope, the way leave was granted, with
a prospective view to any description of power that could be em-
ployed on the line, and to any amount of traffic that might pass
over it.

At the conclusion of the Learned Coonsel's address the room was
cleared, and on our return,
The CHAIRMAN asked the counsel for Messrs. Wauchope
whether any offer had been made by them for the sale of their
rights ?

Mr. Sergeant WftaNcrtam stated that some such proposition had
been made, to the effect that 5001. per annum should be paid by the
Company as a consideration for the increased annoyance and use
made of their property, being an augmentation of 3001. upon the
sum formerly paid.
The room being again cleared, upon our return,

The CHAIRUAN remarked that the Committee did not think that
under the 59th clause of the present Bill, Messrs. Wauchope could
obtain an adequate consideration for the increased use made of
their property. They, therefore, suggested that the parties should
meet and come to some arrangement before the meeting of the
Committee to-morrow.

The Committee was then adjourned until to-morrow (this day;
at twelve.

Group 11.

The Committee to consider the projects in this group assembled
at twelve o'clock. Present, Viscount Barrington (Berkshire),
Chairman; Mr. Christie, Mr. Leader, Mr. Bannerman, and Mr.
Botfield.
KENDAL AND WINDERMERE RAILWAY.

This was an unopposed Bill.
The clauses of the Bill were read through. They presented
nothing objectionable, and therefore, vi Rh the preamble, received
the assent of the Committee.
LANCASTER AND CARLISLE RAILWAY.

Mr. HOPS stated the case for the Company, who applied for
leave to shorten their line, to the extent of hall-a-mile, at Lan-
caster, and at the same time to connect the railway with the river
at that part.

Mr. Errington, the engineer, described the advantages said to
be derivable by the public from the proposed alterations in the line,
when the Committee adjourned.

Group B.
LEEDS AND THI.RSK LINE.

Several witnesses were called to prove the desirableness of the
proposed scheme.
Mr. Gott, Director of the Company, knew the country through
which the proposed line would pass, and was convinced that no
better scheme could be suggested for the advantage of the locality.
Mr. HILL, for the Leeds Waterworks, examined Mr. Gott, who
did not think that any injury would accrue to the supply of water
to the town by the construction of the line.
Lord de Grey, examined by Mr. BAINES —Resides at Newby
Hall, near Leeds. Had examined the pre,ent scheme, and also
the proposed branch line from Pilrnore to Harrogate by the North
of England Company, and was decidedly convinced that the Leeds
and Thlrsk was the most likely to lie advantageous to the town of
Leeds.

Other evidence of a similar character was adduced, after which
the Committee adjourned.

Group W.

WAKEFIELD, PONTEFRACT, AND GOOLE RAILWAY.

The Committee on this line assembled at twelve o'clock,

The examination of Mr. Patten, the collector of customs, was
resumed by Mr. Wilkins, who appeared on the part of the pro-
moters of the line.

The witness stated, that the export trade from the port of Goole
consisted chiefly of British manufactures. The greater part of the
goods exported went to Hamburgh and the Netherlands. The
import trade consisted principany of sheep's wool, and various
kinds of timber from the commits. The number of foreign ves-
sels entered inwards in the port in 1839 was 131. In the year
1844 the number was only 44. From the opening of the port of
Goole in 1828 to 1839, the year previous to the opening of the
Hull and Selby line, the average of foreign vessels entered inwards
was 138, and the average of vessels outwards during the same
period was 119. During the last five years the number of foreign
vessels trading to.the port of Goole had very much decreased.. The
Custom-house revenue had also been materially injured by the
opening of the Hull and Selby lime.
Mr. PICKERING said he would not dispute a single item of im-
ports or exports from Goole.
Mr. It. Chambers, commodore of the pilots of the port of
Goole, was then called.—His evidence went to show the facilities
afforded by the port for carrying on a foreign trade.
Captain Laws, R.N., the manager of the Manchester and Leeds
Railway, was examined—He stated that he was acquainted with
Goole and its traffic. In his opinion, if the proposed line were
carried into effect, a considerable amount of goods now sent to
Hull would be sent to Goole, as the land carriage would be very
considerably shorter, and the cost of carriage would be the came.
By the existing line the distance between Manchester and Hull was
98} miles, but by the proposed line it would be only 74 miles.
The shipping aceommodation at Hull was very insufficient for its
trade, and that trade was daily augmenting.
The witness was proceeding in his evidence, when the announce.
ment was made that the Speaker was at prayers.

Group EE.
DUNDEE AND PERTH (NORTH) RAILWAY.

The Committee upon the Dundee and Perth (North) and
Dundee and Perth (South) Railways, the Scottish Midland.
and the Aberdeen Railways, assembled in Room No. 19. Present,
the Right Hon. F. Baring, Mr. Pretheroe, Mr. James, Mr. Gill,
and Mr. Alderman Copeland.
Mr. AUSTIN, after a variety of preliminary matter had been dis.
posed of, proceeded to open the case on the part of the promoters
of the Bill. The line which it was proposed to make was 20i
miles long, and its object was to effect a local communication
between Perth and Dundee, and by a junction line with Arbroath,
which had a communication with Aberdeen. The direction
and advantages of this line the Committee would find to be
strongly pointed out in the report from the Board of Trade on the
subject of the proposed line. That report said, " The construc-
tion of the Scottish Midland would render the Dundee and
Perth line unnecessary, as part of the through line from the
north to Perth. But looking at the importance of the town of
Dundee, which, as the seat of extensive linen manufactures, is
much connected with Glasgow, Liverpool, and other commercial
and manufacturing towns in England, it appears to us desirable
that it should enjoy a connexion with the general railway system
of the kingdom; and as this connexion can be effected by a line
of twenty miles and a half, the estimated cost of which is only
200,000/., and which will moreover be the means of introducing
coals at a cheaper rate into Dundee, and of accommodating a con-
siderable traffic between that town and Perth, we cannot hesitate
te report our opinion that, notwithstanding the sanction of the
Scottish Midland as the preferable line for thtough communication
to the north, the construction of the Dundee and Perth line ap-
pears to us, upon public grounds, to be justifiable." The course
of communication to which the formation of this line would lead,
would be from Dundee and Perth to Falkirk, Glasgow, Edinburgh,
and the North, Liverpool, and Hawick, where there were vast coal
fields, which at present were not capable, from the absence of a facility
of carriage, of being brought to Dundee or to Perth. Then there would
be a communication by one or other of these means with Fifeshire.
With regard to what might be denominated the competing line,
" the New Tyle line," that was 33 miles in length, having gradients
of such a frightful nature as almost to be perpendicular, such as 1
in 12, whilst another was as much as lin 20. Besides, there was
on that line a tunnel of a quarter of a mile in extent; but such a
thing was not demanded on the line under the consideration of the
Committee--and, moreover, whilst the Scottish Midland was
merely a single line of rail, on the Dundee and Perth the rails
were double. Strictly, therefore, these could not be called com.
peting lines. The cost of this line would be 200,0001. ; there
would not be a single tunnel, a single bridge, nor even a single
viaduct, with the exception of that immediately at Perth. The
line, too, although so short, would run through a district of, and
afford accommodation to, a population of 112,000 persons, of
which number there were as many as 70,000 at Dundee. He
should call evidence to show both the 19cat passenger and traffic
advantages of the line.

Mr. D. B axter, Mr. W. Thoms, and Mr. A. Symons, were then
examined upon these points.
The Committee adjourned at four o'clock.

LLOYD'S SHIPPING.
EAST INDIA SHIPPING.
Arrivals—Gloriana, Webb, from Bengal, off Ply-
mouth, sailed Jan. 27; Cape, March 26.
Arrivals in Table Bay, Cape of Good Hope—Welling-
ton, Liddell, and Northumberland, Bird, March 22. from
Malras; Ann, Caithnesa, from Algoa Bay; Ann, Iteva,
21st, from Newcastle; Activ,,, Renaut, 22d, from Buenos
Ayres to Mauritius; Lord Hungerford, Pigott, 23d, from
Calcutta; Leander, from Crozets ; Margaret Drake,
24th, from London and Angra, Pequena ; Indian,
Mackie, 2511, from Antra Pequena; Isabella, Cauvin,
from Walwich thy; Fulmar, Da(rnall, from Bird
Island; Packet, M.Kinlay, and AlicAuviland, Turner,
from Avgra Pequena ; Plantagenet, Dornett, from
London.

Departures from Table Bay—XL, Williamson, March
21, Ilinciley, Dickson, Alcyone. Storr, Mary Thy,
Ellwood, Hope, Robson, Julius Cae.iar, Smart,
Ab!xamler Robertson, Maclachlan, 22d, Sophia, Sil-
lands. 23d, Abel Gower, Foster, 24th, all to Saldanha
Bay ; Richard Mount, 23d, to Adelaide ; British Queen,
2,74 th, to Simons Bay ; Arab, Cooke, to Saldanha thy ;
Rosebud, 23:1, to Natal ; Fortitude, 26th, to Ceylon.
Departures. from Simons Bay—Regalia, Effleck, March
22, to London ; 1131.5. Osprey, Crawford, 24th, to China.
Arrivals at Janeiro—Rebecca, Miller, March 27th,
from London to Hobart Town.

BATHS AND WASH-HOUSES FOR THE LABOURING
CLASSES.—A deputation, consisting of Mr. Cotton and
Mr. William Hawes, the Chairman and Deputy-Chair-
man, and others, including Mr. Baly, the civil engineer
to the Committee, had the honour of an interview at
Buckingham Palace, on Monday, with his Royal High-
ness Prince Albert, to submit to his examination the
model and drawings for the proposed first establishment,
which is intended to be erected in Whitechapel. His
Royal Highness took great interest in the subject, and
expressed an earnest wish for the success of the scheme,
of which, and of the plans, he expressed his approbation.