The Sun.
London, England, 1817-05-14 00:00:00

been said of the absurdity rlf craning; upon the
Morse In Vto t•ie Roitusites lief Ore that state dale
incomt an.l exp ntliture was bettire them, it wets
to he tecohected that one of the very first acts of
the House, after appointing :the Committee, was
in reftn to the Estimates of that Committee. Bet
it WAS not cornet to say that the House was
called upon to vote without being in poSsession of a
stet, neat of the income and eXpenditdre ; fur the
ACtOtllits of the produce of the revenne and of the
ex peretitio e lied been merle lip to the sth of
Apt 11,
mid three vecoents were now hi the hand's of
veers \ :ember in the House. It certainly
peat ed from these at' couos that the financial state
of the country %iris one of great difficulty. dir
that licenitnt the !louse was Called upon to matte
every saving that Was pOsiiiiilo in every (lepArt-
Inelo of the public Service, constiteittiv with the
Softly of the country. If any lion. Gentlennut
cintitt plot (lilt any one item in these I;',ooimates,
and prove that a saving might be made in it, let
Mei pot it to the vote, and it the proof were satis-
factory, the Hon. Gentleman who made It out
should have his vote, But at present, he thought
that the great reductions which hail been made
- were as great as the circionstanoes Of the country
would allow.
Mr. Caereeit expressed much surprise at hear
ing the thin. Genlientail who spoke last, expreis
his satisfaction at the. AlriOtilit of the Estimates,
anti at the extent of the reductions which hail
been made. Ile could hardly Irtist his eats now,
when he. remembered the speech and motion bf
the Pion. Gentleman last year, on the likens:6ml
of; the Army Eetimates. Last year the Hon.' Gen!
thaeao had moved that there'should be a reduc-
tion of 33,000 thousand men in the military force,
' beneath the amount of the preceding year. Bits this
you,. when the reduction WAS May twenty-six
thowand inen, be expressed his surprise at what
bad been dime by Ministers, anti his-Surprise
et' their exertions, which had etrabled•them
to
niake such a' reduction. The antenna Of the force
voted last yen', in pink and file, was 149,000;
the number ;Ws year %skis 123,000, being a redue-
; duction'of about 26,090 meo, and this was
,the
mighty t eduction at which the Hors. Gentleman
exprested' so much satisfaction. But the Hoch
Gentlemen promised, that if the expediency of
any further reduction could be proved, it should
hale his vote. Now be (Mr. C.) undertook to
nr4ke. out J case; and to explain to the perfect sa7
tisfactiOn of any teasonable man; that there
'might he a reduction of ten thousand • men
'below the amount of .the Estimates now pro-
posed to the House. As soon,. therefore, 10
the Amendment 'riow before the House was
disposed. of, lie would enter upon the proof
'of his case. -Cerininly the reductions which had
been made by ;Ministers were very considerable.
. Ile did not mean 'to deity that. Ile bud no doubt,
too,' ghat the amount of these reductions had
made a great itripression upon the minds of the
House and on the country. But AI the same time
be Was sure, that when the country saw that there
Were perstans in this House who stood forward
and tolintained that the amount of these
tine's was too smell, the truth would idtlutately
evail, i,ts it always roust. He admitted Ow there,
skia.l a spirit abroad'whieb ought to. be
„watched.;
her, at tile same, time, there was nothing In the,
internal situation of the council to justify the
-,,f air force proposed to be maintained.
• Mr. BANKES and Mr. CALCItAir mutually ex.
plained. •
Mr. F. Itr,xtstsote observed, rdlat
Hon. Friend (Mr. liaekei) was opposed to any
of the measures of Government he Vr Hs extolled by
the Gentlemen opposite as a great anthority ; but
When his opinion was in favour of the measures of
GovernMent, it then went for nothing: It Go.
sterriment proposed a CoiuMittee it then was sure
to he bitnted down, end thOugh now the transit
Cbmmittee was granted that had been asked last
year, it.
,was good for nOthing. The grounds
tor the reduetion were ' finite unsatisfactory,
and the Hon. Gentleman had not informed the
irtiuse -in" what quarter the men were to be
reduced. The comparison betwixt the year
1792 aud the present time was not,ijnst. The
• forceslulndia were 'not' paid by the Public, end
'most be taken out of the ConSiderirfion of the sub-
jriit, as an army might' be necessary in India
though not in England. army in India now
was to''the 'army in 1792 in the proportion of 17
to 9, and that was a great part of the difference.
Thtenumber in Ireland in 170 bad been 12,000
men, and was now 22,000, making difference
(4.'10,000, and the state of lrelUnd called for
• that increase of force. The' number in Great
Britain was 2f3,000 ; but from the difference 'of
stations, 3001) more men' were necessary than in
1792, and that reduced the number to 23,000.
'['lie present state of the country did not warrant
a reduction to' the lowest scale. The garrison of
Gibraltar might be increased by 2 or 300 into
above whet it hail been in: 1792,' but that was
retrdered neessary by the increased extent of the
fortifications. The additional force in the Lee-
ward ISlands had been necessary, in eonsequencu
.of the aholition.of the Slave Trude, end the exist-
ence of a black empire in their neighbeurhirod.
Wherever an increase had taken place, it would be
forrild necessary' from the circumstances of the
case. The sante arguments had bees urged last
year, and 'he' trusted would experience the same
reception titey had forMerly met with from the
!.tats, as a great reduetion had been Made.
Sir Wm. BnitanyGlis court! not 'allow this op.
portur.ity to pass, although In. had delivered'his
sentiffients last 'night" without expressing his tie-
cida opposition to the extraordinary amount of
these e,stiatates; The country, •he observed, had
note been at peace tiro year', and yet the amoilot
of the establishnient was greater dean at the close
of any m-ar previtnis to alre last. The lion, Gen-
tiernian had said to the Gentlemen on his stile of
the 'Home, " it these Estimates are too geemi.
slew •us how thry can he reduced ;" but theNt3ble
Lord arlrit'is friend's had no right to call upon
then's to state the EstiMatcs which' the eirconi-
stances Of the 'country wOuld justify. The anus
probandilkiv upon his Majesty's Ministers, to de-
monstrate the necessity for everyntan of the whole
number which they asked for. The Ron. 11,4ro-
nertheo went through the various items, coin-
paring*them with those of 1792,',and contended
,that the amount wsis-greater than could 'be either
necessary or defensible, he thOuld therefore vote