The Sun.
London, England, 1821-02-03 00:00:00

NAVY.

The House having resolved itself into a Corn-
mitteeof Supply,

Sir G AVA 111.LE;(D ER addressed the Committee on
the subject of the Supplies for the Navy for the
present year. In the course of his observations,
he stated that a considerable diminution in the
Naval expenditure had taken place, partly in
consequence of the reduction of a thousand sea-
men, and partly owing to the diminished price
of provisions. This diminution, however, was
not intended to affect the exertions which were
making in the cause of humanity and of science
in this branch of the administration of public.
affairs. He should be sorry if either of these
important points should be neglected ; and he
was happy to say, that great progress bad of
late been made in both. The Hon. Baronet con- •.
eluded by moving, " That it be the opinion of
that Committee,- that 2,000 men should be, em-
ployed'for the sea service, including 800 0: marines
for the thirteen lunar mouths, from the Ist of
January 1821, to the ISt January 18`212i."
The question having been. put,
Mr. CREEIEY said, that it was his intention to
oppose the vote proposed by the Hon. Baronet
on this occasion, as it, was his fixed determina-
tion not to giVe his- vote for a single farthing of
the public money before the Estimates of the ser-
vice for which it was.to be employed, were laid
upon the table.

Sir G. WA:tat:mina said, that if...the Tlonoura-
, ble Gentleman meant to dt?art from, all ParHa-
, mentary practice, then he tniglit certainly oppose
the motion he had submitted to the Committee.
The Hon. Member, he thought, had Mistaken the
nature of that Motion. It was• not at all con-
fleeted with the -general Estimates of the Navy,
which were always in. the hands of Members at
least a fortnight
them
the usual Resolutions
founded on them • were moved. He ought,
perhaps, to have explained before, but he had
on former occasions so often done so, that he
really had not thought it necessary to repeat, that
the votes proposed 'in the early part of the
Session always related to the fleet afloat, and
had no connection with either the raising or
reducing the existing strength of the navy. The
votes -which he then held in his hand related
solely to the fleet afloat. 'When general estimates
came to be proposed, if the Hon. Member had
any observations to make, he would have the
benefit of having had them in his hands for a long
time before the resolutions were brought forward.
With regard to the votes he held in his hand, it
never was the custom to present any estimates of
them. They were made in consequence of an
Order -in Council, enabling the King to maintain
the fleet afloat, and, unless the Hon. Member
meant to depart from all Parliamentary usage
from time immemorial, he would not object to
his motion.

Mr. CREEVEY said, that this having been the
practice of that house from time immemorial vas
the reason and the cause of all their distresses.—
It was time that they strould change theii- man.:
tiers. He then moved that the Co-intittee report
.progl-css, and ask leave to sit agaii this man-
iyN
r he7fishould treat every ebsolittiot epos
an Committee Of.Slipply in whiN ti e estimte*
of the money were notbbefore the House.
Mr. lleisE stated the great objections he en-
tertained to the reductioh Of the- naval fdree of.
the country, and the duginentation of the mill.;
tary, as was exhibited in the. Note proposed t
the Hon. Baronet for the service of -the'present
year. The. increase of the corps of Marines to
the amount of 8000 -never would obtain his con.-
sent at a time when our military establishment
was so great as it was. gtill. less could he•cona-
tenance the reduction of our whole naval force
down: to the' number of 14,000 seamen only.
What means could they employ to man a fleet
of any magnitude in case of emergency, if • they
went oh in this way annually decreasing this va-
luable body of men ? It was most injurious to
the interests'of the Navy. He +.ould-never con-
sent to vote any money for this service, :until he
saw' a disposition to reduce the useless and extrn-
vapnt Civil List. --Befoi-e he voted any money,
lie must see if it was intended to reduce the
number of Commissioncrs. of Dock Yards are
other places where they were equally tinneceS-
sary. _

Sir GEORGE WA TIREN DER observed., that:it :i• s-,
perfectly well-known by all who were in the.
least conversant with the subji••ct that the ot:4-
nions of naval men were opposeA
to that of the. Hon—Gentleman (Mr. litune)..
He trusted, therefore, the House would not he
led away by the opiniou of the lion. Gentlemart
on the: subject of the increase of MarineJ,- whom
they knew that it was the opinion of all Naval
Officers:and persons connected with the Navy,
and be believed of all the -Gentlemen on erre.
other side, except the lion. Member himself,
that it is of the. greatest .advantage to the public
service to increase the corps of Roydl Marines.'
Mr. BENNETT woad not enter into the merits:
of the increase of Marines. That Wonicl he a
very good question when. the Estimates ‘carne be-
fore thellouse. But he would not consent to,-
vote a single .shilliag of the public money with
out the Estimates were placed before him first..
it was time that-the attention of the House and-
the Public should be directed to what was going
on. in Committees of Supply. It was time that
an, end should be put to those farces ; and,• in 'or-
der to expedite this. end, he would not consent_
to a single vote,. if' the consequence should be
that the Session: lasted till. October next. The
country should no longer, with Ids consent,. be"
pillaged in- this manner.

The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCI-LEQTJER expressca
his surprise at the course which. Hon. CentlemVl
opposite thought fit -upon this occasion to take-
He would venture to say, that there scarcely
was an instance in which •the course of .pabliz:
businesS was attempted to be obstructed by such
means on the records of Parliament. Let Gen-
'derma only refer to the Journals of that House
for years back, and they would find, that fronr
time immemorial, the practice 41•Pa.rliarr5ent hal*
been. to ;,rant these preliminary notes without
Estimates..

IVIr.M.InnYAT said, that the question rppearea
to him to be, whether the naval forces of the
Country at present in actual employment were try
be maintained or not. The supply now askea
was for men actually in service. According t'''
all former practice Jof Parliament they wtEr
bound to vote for the niaintenance of the seamet/
in actual service.

• Mr. BENNETT eXplained, that he would wit:
lingly consent to a • vote for the maintenance
those seamen for a month. But it was (lemmata
in this vote for a whole year, and iCwas .to that.
he objected before the house possessed' the'
means of judging how far it might be expedieut
or necessary to keep, up this larce..
,Sir G. CLARKE was surprised at the Want or
.tritisort in the arguments of tk'e Gentlemen 01'1'°-
site. One lion. Member (Mr. Ilume) endea-
voured to impress the Committee with an, lAr'
that there were too few men employed, ancl
others complained of the force being too great-
h e money called for on the present occasion
was for .the payment of the wages and for the
maintenance of, the men in actual service ; ortalt
was obvious that the greatest part being at n,
axed rate; the sutra required partook of no.
'change. The objections, therefore,. to vote for
this money, he thought, had no foundation.
Admiral HAnvry stated, that, from his expe
rience, which was extensive, in fitting: out arma-
ments the great difficulty had generally been oc-
casioned by the want of a sufficient number of 018
seasoned Marines.- - New Marines were of. rag
use, and as the Navy had been much increased-
in the number' of ships, particularly in line-of'
battle ships, nothing in his apiiiiOn, was-
requisite, or would more conduce to the good al
the service than a substantial Coi'psof Marines.
Sir GEottc.t; CocjiaugN re:Aze-.-kered at the
last time when war was declared, in eons&
quence of the deficiency of Marines, they were•
obliged to take a number of soldiers out of
the regiments of the line, myho 'Were qu-ite
unfit for the station, and was the source oL r.
much disagreement., between ,the officers 151'1
men. With regard to the sailors at present en
ployed, there certainly was 11Q superabundance,
But there was an immense number employed in the,
-commerce of the country, from which they would
be able in the space of two months 'to man,a Occt'•
lie was aware of the dislike of seamen generalf.Y•
to go on board a man of war, but when there xra-s
no commerce they would come of their, awn ac_
cord. As it had appeared to them. that they. did
not want the. 1000 men that had been reduce to
they thought themselves bound to discharge
them; but, if the House should order them to b-e
employed again, they would certainly be able t°
amuse them. At the saute time it wws, their del'
to say, that for the public service they were- ntit
wanted.

Sir F. 0:11A1 ANNEX entirely concurred in the
propriety of keeping up an adequate corps af.
Marities.

Mr. TREMAYNE was anxious to take this O