The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-18 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESD A V EVENING, MARCH , 1845.

many farmers wished them to do—repealing the Canada Corn
Act—putting a higher duty on the edmission of foreign cattle,
or in any way going back to that as stern of high protec-
tion which the present Government declared it did not
wish to restere.—( Hear, hear.) But there was one
thing they could do for the farmers—there was one
thing they were bound to do for them—and that was, not
to hold cut these delusive hopes to them.—( Cheers.) They
had seen the farmers meeting this year in various places, they
had read the reports of those meetings, containing complaints
of their present state, and requests for further protection. He
thought the House ought to tell the farmers, if it did give
them this farther protection, it would only be affording them a
" elelnsion and a snare"—(Cheers)—that their best reliance
would be on their own industry and skill, and that the future
course of Parliament would be to diminish and finally take
away the present amount of protection, not to crease new
ones.—(blear, hear.) But such was not the language held,
such was not the course now pursued. The Hon. Gentleman
who had spoken from that corner of the House, had stated how
much they regretted having voted for the corn•law of 1842.
That law was one which the Host. Gentlemen themselves es-
tablished. He knew that he ( Lord John Russell ), and many
others on Isis side of the House, voted against the second read-
ing of that 11:11, but it was carried by a great majority, con-
sisting chiefly of the representatives of agricultural counties.—
( Hear. ) Then those lion. Gentlemen say they would not
have voted for it. if they had known of the tariff or the Canada
Corn ILI!. With retard to the tariff he could not think that
anything which had happened, or anything that was likely to
happen, could be at all injurious to good graziers, if they bed also
a great importation of foreign grain, and could command the
right means of competing in the markets of the country with any
growers of foreign cattle whatever. With regard to the Canada
Corn Bill, to that he also objected, but on very different
grounds. He considered it to be the establishment of a corn-
law in Canada, an extension of a kind of protection to the
agricultural interest of Canada, which it might be hereafter
very troublesome to alter. The Hon. Member for Taunton
( Mr. Labouchcre) founding his objections to the Bill on these
views, brought forward a motion which would entirely have
stepeed the progress of the Bill. Was his Hon. Friend sup-
ported
by the agricultural interest in that House? By no
means.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentlemen opposite gave
such support to the Government that it was enabled to carry
the Bill.—( Hear, hear.) When they went farther than the
second reading, he (Lord J. Russell) was not prepared to
carry on that opposition. Ilut it was evidently within
the power of those who represented the agricultural
interest to have put a total stop to the Bill, and for any impor-
tation that had taken place under it, let them Lot throw all the
blame on the Government. They had themselves assisted the
Government, and they were assisted every day—( Hear, hear)
—in carrying out this same policy of giving greater freedom
to trade at d taking away restrictions. 'they should tell the
farmer, then, it was a good and round policy they were pur-
suing, and that they intended to stand by it fairly and
honestly; then they would not be in that House, following in
the wake of the Minister, and then going down to the agri-
cultural meetings to attack him for his free-trade principles.--
Such was Vs opinion of the general conduct they ought to
pursue • but he would now proceed to the particular motion
before the House That motion declared that in any remission
of duties, the agricultural interest ought to be consulted. He
thought the Right Hon. Secretary of State had answered the
latter part of the speech of the Hon. Member for Somerset,
with regard to the particulars he had stated. Take as an in-
stance, the poor-rates, and the tithe commutation. The poor-
rates were one million less at present than they were before the
new poor-law passed; and with respect to tithes, the agricul-
turists stood in a much better position now, than formerly, in-
asmuch as they could improve their cultivation and increase
their produce without paying a single sixpence more to the
tithe-owner. The agriculturists had been great gainers
by the difference in their position from what it was
some years ago.—(Hear.) Ile should not enter into
the question of the expense of prosecutions ; if they esta-
blished a different system altogether, and if the Secretary of
State should ever choose to appoint a public prosecutor,
then different arrangements might be made with respect to
the expense of prosecutions ; hut at present the subject was
quite beside the question before them. Ibis answer to the
Hon. Gentleman, when he asked for consideration for the
agricultural interest iu these remissions of duties was this—
that the agriculturists ought to place themselves on au
equality with the rest of the community, and say there should
be no mote duties on the produce of agriculture than on any
other raw material of commerce. The food of the people was
in fact the raw material on which the greater part of
the people were maintained. Let them come forward, and
say, on ,his raw material, the least possible amount
of duty should be levied, and then, when they were on the
same footing as the rest of the community, when they were no
longer reckoned among the favoured interest, they might ask
to have their peculiar burdens considered, and if they were
proved to have injurious consequences en agriculture, and to
prevent the employment of the number of labourers who would
otherwise be employed, anything that could in justice and
equity be demanded, would be conceded by the greatest free
trader and most determined abolitionist of the corn-laws who
sat on that side of the House, as readily as by Hon. Gentle-
men who held property in land. But they could not expect
this view of their case to be taken while the
odious impression caused by the corn.laws hung
over the country. The majority of• the House of Com-
mons, and the whole of the House of Peers, was composed of
persons connected with land; and the protection given to that
interest was believed by the people to be at the expense of the
rest of the community. What an injurious pos:tion this placed
the landed interest in with the country. 'the Hon. Gentle-
man who brought forward the present motion alleged there
had been a decline in the price of meat of 6.1. or 7d. per stone,
and he complained that it had become cheaper since the tariff of
1842. He complained also that corn had fallen in price, and
he asserted that these were evils which required interposition.
After all, when they followed this out, it amounted to this.
The Hon. Gentleman complained, and alleged it as a grievance,
that a poor man, in purchasing 2 lbs. of m at for the Sunday
dinner of himself and wife and family, could save about 2d. in
the price of it.—( Hear, hear.) If he bought bread, he might
also save 43. or 53. in the bread of his family for the week.
Let them consider how injurious it was to them to come for-
ward with these facts, and allege them as an evil and a
grievance. If they had everything reduced to a fair state, if they
could say they had no special protection, and that in conse-
quence of the flourishing state of the manufactures these was
a greater demand for agricultural produce, causing an in-
creased price, then they might fairly rejoice in the fact of that
increase of price. But when they said their law was not suf-
ficiently stringent, that it did not prevent the people from pay-
ing 63. less for bread or meat than they, might be made to pay
by the law—this was a complaint that must tend to place the
landed interest, and the great landed aristocracy of the country
in an odious position.—( Cheers.) He, as much as any man,
had a right to respect that landed interest.—( Hear, hear, from
Colonel Sibthorpe. ) The cheer of the lion. and Gallant
Member induced him to make an allusion which otherwise he
should not have done. He had been connected with persons
who took a great interest in the progress of agriculture ; his
uncle and father had done as much as any men towards the
progress of agriculture ; they had done all they could to bring
the farmers of the country together and make them conversant
with improvements.—(Cheers.) He was, therefore, the last
man to wish for any unnatural or unfair depressiou of the
agricultural interest. But if they really wished to promote
the good of agriculture, if they wished the landed interest to
hold that high title to the respect and rank they had won for
themselves in former days, and ought to preserve in the pre-
sent, they ought not to agree to motions like this ; but they
should seek to establish some fair and equal arrangement be-
tween all parties, and to let all Englishmen see that if the
landed interest was the most powerful, it was also the most
generous, portion of the community.
Mr. B. ESCO TT rose amidst loud cries of " Order,"
and " Mr. D'lsraeli," who had stood up at the same moment,
but gave way to the former Hors. Member, who commenced by
saying that having already given way to one Hon. Member that
evening, he hoped he would now he heard, particularly as he
intended to vote against the motion of the Hon. Member op-
posite, although he happened to be one of his constituents who
would give him his most t ecided opposition on this question.—
( Hear and a laugh.) The Noble Lord the Member for London
had gone rather minutely into the details of this question, and
into the many grievances which it was contended pressed upon
agriculture ; but surely they were not now discussing that
question—they were not now debating the nature and the
working of the corn-laws—( Ilear)—and therefore he re-
gretted that the Hon. Member had deemed it right to bring
forward his motion, thereby interrupting, for so small an
object it professed to attain, the very important business of
the countryas now wader discussion.—( Hear. ) How-
ever, he thanked the Noble Lord the Member for London for
having entered at such length upon this question, for it
was the very same as one which he intended to have
brought forward last session.—( Hear, hear.) But now
he would ask what was it that they proposed as a mode of
relief? It was this, that the county rates should be re-
moved. But who was it that imposed these county rates?
Were they not the Hon. Member for Somcrsetshire, and others
whom he now saw around him.—( Hear, hear.) And was it
not the same who had the power to remove them?—( Heir. )
It had been said that this question had now merged into a con-
test between two great bodies in this country, namely, the
Anti-Corn-law League and the Protection Society. Now,
although there had been occasional skirmishes between both
these parties, he had never said a word against either, and
never would, so long as he did not feel himself compelled to
join either—( Hear, and a laugh)--but with the exception of
those skirmishes, he did believe that the Anti-Corn-law
League would affect trade as little as would the Protection
Society agricultural distress.—(Laughter.) Now, he would
ask, was not the real cause of -the dissatisfaction of the farmers
of this country the conduct of their representatives in that
House—( Hear, hear)—and if he concurred in this feeling
amongst the farmers he had his reasons for it.—( Hear, hear.)
Let it not be forgotten, that hitherto there had been two kinds
of meetings held at fixed and regular periods in the
country, at which the farmers had been in the habit
of looking forward for the expression of the opinions of those
whom they looked upon as their leaders, and being guided by
their statements on subjects connected with agriculture—those
meetings were the agricultural meetings and dinners.—( Hear,
hear.) Those assemblies were generally held during the Par-
liamentary recess ; and it was the habit of all classes who lived
by the cultivation of the land, to discuss at these meetings va-
rious measures affecting their collective or individual rights.
He remembered that when first those assemblies used to take
place subjects of a political tendency were sometimes discussed
at them ; and in order to prevent the danger likely to follow
from such discussions, rules were then fraxted by which all
public nature were prohibited being in-
of last year he attended one or two
ttorepdicusceodf . a political
theic ala o
autumn
tumn
of these assemblier. and he there found that the effect of this
rule was, that the leaders of the agricultural party adopted this
course. There were usually some Members of Parliament
present, and they, having no doubt these s :me political questions
uppermost in their minds, could not well suppress them altogether,
so they just said as much about them as to convince the far-
mers they knew nothing whatever on the subject.—( Laughter. )
And then they spoke to the farmers on agricultural subjects in
such a strain as convinced these same farmers that those Hon.
Members knew nothing whatever on that subject.—( Great
laughter.) Allusion had been made to the debate which took
place last week, and much had been said about the prin-
ciple and the intent of this question ; but he begged to say
this, and he would let the farmera know it, that neither the
principle nor the intent of the question could have such at-
tacks made against them as those made by Hon. Members who
thought they were supporting both.—( Hear, and laughter.)
One lion. Member made a speech in that House complaining
of the agricultural distress, and supported protection elsewhere.
—( A laugh.) Another wrote pamphlets and bills, and dis-
tributed them through the country, declaring that protection
was the cause of the distress, while in that House he supported
protection.—(Laughter.) Nosy, he conceived. that if those
Honourable Members were right, they would be the
means of compelling others to petition for the
total repeal of this protection.—(Hear, hear.) Yet, in
the face of all this, eliat did the agricultural Members
in that I louse do?.. Why, they supported protection —the
House stuck to the corn-laws and tariff, though these were
the very things that it was said created all the distress.
( Hear, hear.) Now he (Mr. E.) had spent some time
amongst the farmers, and he thought he knew something about
them, and he could assure Hon. Members that there was
nothing they liked so much as plain dealing ; and he would like
to know what sort of answer would they receive from Hon.
vAolteenissbeinrs
fs'avlowumroffhey heti sent to represent them, and who had
protection from boils sides of the House.
—( Hear, hear. ) Hon. Members would find this to be the
fact, that the farmers and the labourers too hail much deeper
intellectual powers on this question, and many others, than
those who conceived themselves their superiors gave them
credit for—( Hear, hear)—and the labourers knew well Chet

' they and the farmers could only prosper by the general pros-
perity of the country.—( Hear. ) It was a fact well known to
many that the lab curers could reason fairly upon this topic,
and they frequently displayed that acuteness of intellect
denied to those who lead a life of luxurious ease and indolence.
He would not have supported the proposition of her Majesty's
Government, or oppose the motion of his lion. Frien 1, did he
not believe from the bottom of his heart that the budget of
1842 and the budget of 1815 vi ere the commencement of a
great series of financial expel iments—the commencement of a
r.ew system of taxation—the commencemset of a new
system of encouragement of trade, manufactures, com-
merce, and agriculture—in short, the commencement of a new
system for the promotion of the reward of industry, which,
when finally accomplished and carried out to the end, would be
for the benefit of all classes of the people—would raise the value
of property, would raise the value of labour, and tend to the
maintenance of English peace and English liberty, and the
maintenance of that constitution under which they had been
born and bred.
Lord WORSLEY did not think the Hon. Gentleman who
had just sat down had spoken the sentiments of the farmers.
The farmers had petitioned in favour of the existing protection
being
continued, tearing that it might be attempted to reduce
it. His Noble Friend who had seconded the motion, was the
mover of the address in 1842, and at that time an expectation
was held out to the carrieers that the corn-laws would maintain
wheat at a certain price. In that expectation they had been
disappointed. It had been said that the agricultural distress
was not general, that it did not exist to a great extent in the
north of England. This was true ; but the reason was,
that the farmers of the north had a greater amount
of capi'al than those of the south. The distress
had not sprung up this year, but had gradually been increasing
for two or three years past, and now it was showing itself in
such a form as to compel the farmers to speak out. He had
refused the other night to go into Committee on this subject,
believing that it would delude the farmer to do so; but he saw
nothieg in that resolution which had been proposed by the
Hon. Member for Somersetshire, calculated to delude the
farmer. If lion. Gentlemen representing county con-
stituencies should refuse to vote for that motion, their
constituencies would be grievously disappointed, for they
would consider it tantamount to saying that their re-
presentatives did not believe that the agricultural dis-
tress justified the interference of the House of Commons.
Mr. D'ISRAELI said that if he had succeeded in catching
the Speaker's eye, when he in vain attempted to do so, as the
Noble Lord the Member for London terminated his speech, he
would have presumed to have offered some considerations to the
House upon the great question respecting protection to native
industry, which he would not presume to do at that hour
of the night ; and, therefore, he was afraid he must
restrict himself to the principle of discussion which had been
laid down by his Hon. Friend the Member for Winchester, and
confine himself strictly to the motion before the House. Other-
wise, he could assure the Noble Lord, that watching as they
all must do with great interest, the formation of the character
of an individual so eminent,who had been, as he informed them,
thirty years in that House, but who did not appear to arrive at
a result as to what was the interest of the country, that
he (Mr. D'Lraeli) would not presume to place his opinion,
founded on amuch more recent experience of the House than his,
yet, he would dare say, that after all, one truth was evident, per-
haps even for that discussion—namely, that protection was not
a principle but an expedient. If an expedient, it must d pond
on circumstances; it could not be settled by these quotations of
extra dogmas which had been stated by the Noble Lord.—
( Hear, hear.) He could not doubt that they should all of them
have ample opportunity of discussing that great question
which was now the question of the age and the
country.—( Hear, hear.) They should all of them,
either by their speeches or votes in that House, or on the
hustings, sooneror later, come to a test upon the great question,
not whether you will have protection, or free-trade, for that is
not the alternative, but whether you will have free imports.—
( Hear, hear.) He was one of those who thought that there
was much to be said on both sides' but he could not forget
the speech of the Hon. Member for Stockport, which he was
sure would not be easily forgotten—(Hear, hear)—and there-
fore, he would not say that much more was to be said on both
sides. Yet he could say without great presumption, and with
great respect, that much more might be said on one side than
was yet offered to the House.—( Laughter and loud cheers. )
lie might presume to enter into this questien at that hour, if,
indeed, he were in the position of some of those, who were at
the head of affairs, and who might at such an hour
rise, and with the certainty of being heard, enter
into a field so vast.—( Hear, hear.) He could not
forget that before they came to a settlement of this great
question they must grapple with the great point—the war of
hostile tariffs —( Hear, hear.) They must ascertain how far
imports would affect the rate of wages—how far they would
have an effect upon the rate of price—how far cause a disturb-
ance of the precious metals—how any disturbance of the pre-
cious metals might affect the possibility of their maintaining
the standard.—( Hear.) He did not offer those considerations
in a dogmatic tone to the House, but merely to show that be.
fore they came to a settlement of a question which must be set-
tled—( Hear, hear)—there were great numbers of considera-
tions which must be entered into in an unimpassioned and pro.
found manner.—( Hear.) Now he came to the question be-
fore the House—the question mentioned by the Hon. Member
for Winchester, who opposed the motion with so much fervour.
He would meet the Hon. and Learned Gentleman on the
ground he had himself chosen. They had a motion upon this
subject, the terms of which must be familiar to every gentle-
man present, namely to take into consideration, in arranging
the surplus at the disposition of the Minister, the claims of
agriculture. That was not a new motion—it had been
brought before the House before. The motion had been in-
troduced before. It was introduced when the Gentlemen who
now sit on this side of the House sat on the opposite side—under
identical circumstances a similar motion was proposed. Well,
what had taken place under circumstances which ought to be
some guide to them as to the result of the present motion ? That
motion was not triumphant, although it was very
nearly so, for it was supported by a powerful opposition, not
undistinguished for its power of cohesion.—( Laughter.) In
18.36 a powerful Opposition wished to try a fall with not a
feeble, but, at the same time, not a confident Government—
( Laughter)—and they selected this motion as the battle field
on which the power of parties was to be tested. That motion
was proposed by a Noble Friend of his, now a Member of the
other House of Parliament, but who waa then Member for
Buckinghamshire ; and though it was a discussion of not any
great length, it was distinguished by an interesting and able
speech from the Hon. Member for Dumfries. There was a
division—a division which did not shake the Government to its
centre, but which at least made it tremble.—( Laughter. )
There was, in 1836, a majority of above thirty in favour
of the administration on a vital question—a question of
confidence. The motion was identical in its phraseology—so
identical, that he should have thought the Hon. Member for
Somerset, feeling that he had some necessity of having re-
course to successful tactics—(Laughter)—hail referred to au-
thority on this occasion, and determined to bring forward a mo-
tion which came recommended not only by numbers, hut by
distinguished names.—( Hear, hear.) Looking to those lists
embalmed in those record. to which they !all repaired—
( Laughter)—he then read the names of those who voted with
his Noble Friend, and judging from that, he thought that the
Hon. Member for Somerset must have not only equal success
but greater success on this occasion, for this was a Conservative
House of Commons, and that was a Whig one.—(Loud cheers
Nowand laughter.) he would tell the Hon. Member for
Somerset, on whom he might rely for support. There was the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland,
who voted for an identical motion under similar
circumstances.—( Hear, hear.) He knew that Right
Hon. Gentleman too well to doubt that he would not
vote the same way to-night.—( Hear, hear, and much laughter. )
There was then a surplus, and the agricultural interest came
forward, and said, " Are we not to be considered ?" The
Right Hon. Gentleman said they ought to be considered, and
he was not surprised at it—( Hear, hear, and laughter)—for
the Right Hon. Gentleman was always a friend to agriculture.
He remembered having had the honour of meeting the Right
Hon. Gentleman in presence of his constituents, and he could
not forget the occurrence, for the Noble Lord presided with
whom he had voted in 1836.—( Hear, hear.) He remembered
the speech the Right Hon. Gentleman made under those cir-
cumstances. They were dreary moments—(Laughter)—for
they were then in a position when there was no chance for
power unless they were carried forward by the agricultural
cry.—(Loud cheers.) He knew the constituency of Bucking-
ham, and he knew that they were so satisfied with their
accomplished representative—( Laughter)—that if they were
content with his sympathy in opposition, they would be
sure that in the Government they would have a friend
on whom they could rely.—(Laughter and cheers.) Could
the electors of Buckingham for a moment suppose that the
Right Hon. Gentleman, who in 1836 voted for a simple resolu-
tion, and later than 1836 voted for a motion similar to the
present—that the Right Honourable Gentleman would vote
against a motion similar to the one he supported in 1836?
Of course they could not, and of course he would not.—
( Laughter and cheers.) The Noble person who presided over
the dinner could not imagine any such thing, for when he
found that the policy of the Cabinet was opposed to the prin-
ciples which he held, he quitted it at once.—(Hear, hear,
and laughter.) They might therefore count upon the support
of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland.
lie did not think they could despair of the Hon. President of
the Board of Trade.—(Laughter, and cries of " hear, hear.")
He supported a motion of the kind under similar circum-
stances. —( Renewed cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter,)
There was an odd rumour lately about certain opinions which
the electors of Stamford held, and the mode in which they
gave vent to them.—( Great laughter.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade was
now Member for Stamford, and must, he had no doubt, in
accordance with the views he entertained in 1836, consider
that in a surplus budget agriculture had a right to be con-
sidered.—(Hear, hear, and renewed laughter.) He had no
doubt, he repeated, but the Vice-President of the Board of
' Trade would vote now as he voted then.—(Loud cries of
" hear, hear," and great cheering from the Opposition.) He
thought the Noble Lord was a Member of the Cabinet.
He meant the Member for South Nottinghamshire. He
would not forget the course he then took, and now vote as he
had voted before.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," cheers, and
laughter.) If he considered then the claims of the agricultural
interest, as a member of the Government he would not fail to
remember that interest.—( Hear, hear.) Might he go further ?
He believed some of the Lords of the Treasury—( Hear, hear)
—amongst others the Clerk of the Board of Ordnance (who
took so much interest in agriculture that it prevented him from
forgetting him) voted for the motion.—( Hear, hear.) So you
see how many votes (said the Hon. Member, facetiously) my
Hon. Friend the Member for Somersetshire can count upon,
although he seemed to forget them when he made his speech.
—(hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) No doubt all
the constituencies from Buckingham and Chippenham would be
doubly grateful for being so well misrepresented.—(Great
laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government
gave, on the occasion referred to, a contrary opinion.—( Hear,
hear.) He would be very sorry to make a statement in any
way erroneous, and, therefore, he would distinctly state that
the Right Hon. Gentleman on that occasion acted In a different
manner from most of those who sat on the same side of the
House with him. No, the Right Hon. Gentleman did not
vote for that motion—he went into the Whig lobby alone—
left his party, and voted against the notion. The Right Hon.
Gentleman behaved throughout in the most handsome manner.
(Rears of laughter.) He expressed his annoyance, however,
at the indiscreet conduct of his party against the Minister of
the day.—( Hera hear, and cheers from the Opposition.) He
did not rise in his place and read them a lecture—( Hear,
hear)—and he did not say, although they had gone
into a different lobby from their leaders, " You are
in opinion rebellious."—(Loud cries of " Hear," and
great cheering from the Opposition.) The Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman having preserved his consistency still
kept on the very best terms with his party.—(Great laughter. )
That was the state of the case and the House must recollect it.
—( Hear, hear.) He had no doubt that the Right Honourable
Baronet, following the precedent he had then set, would give
the same latitude to his supporters as he did then.—(lronical
cries of " Hear, hear.") lie might quote Hansard in support
of what he had gated, but the facts must be fresh in the recol-
lection of every body. This was " sticking to the question,"
as his Hon. Friend said.—( Hear, hear, and great laughter.)
Did his Hon. Friends around him view the conduct of the
Right Hon. Gentleman in the same light as he did ? Well, if
they did, and if their constituencies were satisfied, they should
not grumble—their conduct was quite unjustifiable.—( Laughter
anti cries of " hear.") The Right Hon. Baronet had done
more for agriculture than any Minister of this country had done
for a quarter of a century before. That was his (Mr. Ce'israell's)
solemn opinion, and though he sometimes came into momen-
tary collision with the Treasury bench, he felt butod t<, make
thiq statement. lie was prepared to mintain that opinion.—
,

( Hear, hear.) On the meeting of Parliament the Right lion.
Gentleman reconstructed his Cabinet, and left out the Minister
of Trade.—( Hear, hear.) There was a great complaint to the
farmers of this country !—( Laughter, and Hear, hear.)
The agricultural Members went to the Right Hon. Baronet
complaining of the coming tariff—murmuring against the
Canada Corn Bill, but now they must be perfectly reconciled.
Now the agriculturist must feel perfectly secure.—( Hear,
hear, and laughter.) Well, now it was a decided demonstra-
tion.—( Great laughter.) But it would not do well to com-
pare the conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet when in op-
position and when in power. It was the old story— they must
not contrast too much the hour of courtship with the moment
of possession.—(Great cheering and laughter from both sides
of the House.) There was a strangeness in the conduct of
the Right Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gentleman's
protection speech was the best which could be heard any where.
It was a great thing to see the Right Hen. Baronet rise, and
hear him talk about the leaders of the gentlemen of England
being in possession of the confidence of the Sovereign.—
( Great laughter and cheers.) They did not now hear much
of the " Gentlemen of England."—(Heer, hear, rene.ved
cheering and laughter ) What of that ? they had the
pleasures of memory—( Hear, hear, and great laughter)—the
charms of reminiscence—they were his first love, and though
he may not kneel to them now, as in the hour of passion.
still they would recal the past, and nothing in his mind was
more unwise and unseemly ,han a tone of recrimination and
reproach.—( Great laughter and cheering.) What was the
use of it ? In all eases, he believed, when the object had
ceased to charm, it was in rain appeal to the feeliugs.—
( Loud and pralonged cheering.) The Right Hon. Baronet,
like any gallant, endeavoured to sooth, and pacify, and keep
things quiet, but it was useless. The Right I lonourab'e Baronet
maintained a tone of arrogant silence and haughty frigidity
towards the advances of the county Members, and if they knew
anything of human nature, they would Wee the hint, but they
went on—he advised them to halt, but they would still go on.—
( Laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman would not say one
word the more for it, but he did say he wou!d have no whin-
ing there.—(lmmense laughter and cheers.) Now, if that
were not the case of the great agricultural intere:t, why should
it be treated differently from any other beauty, ehhough she
was a deluded one.—( Great laughter and cheers.) They had
been convinced at the catastrophe. Protection was now in
the same condition as Protestantism in 18.27,.—( Hear, hear, and
great laughter.) For his part, if they were to have free
trade, he would sooner, with Honourable Gentle-
men opposite, support that question, when emanating
from the honesty and genius of :the Honourable Member
for Stockport, then when proposed by any one, however
versed and skilful in Parliamentary manoeuvring, who had
tampered with the generous confidence of a great people and a
great party.—( Hear, hear, and great cheering. ) For him-
self he could not say what might be the result. (The Hon.
Gentleman 'concluded with these words)—Dissolve the Parj
liament if you like, and appeal to the people, who, I believe,
mistrust you. For me, at least, I take this opportunity of ex •
pressing my opinion thus publicly, that I believe a Conserva-
tive Government is an organised hyprocrisy.—( Loud and pre-
longed cheers, which lasted for several minutes.)
Mr. DARBY said that he did not think the Government
would feel that this attack was of such severe consequence as
the Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down
seemed to think. The Honourable Gentleman seamed
conceive that the Government which he had formerly supported
but which he now opposed, were bound to carry out all the
suppositions which he conceived to be necessary to the welfare
of the particular interest which he espoused.—( Hear, and
laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman seemed to have coalesced
not only with the Whigs but with the Radicals themselves.
The Hon. Gentleman had accused his present opponents with
having caught the Whirs bathing, and of having taken their
clothes, but he (Mr. D'lsraeli) fancied that not only had the
Right Hon. Baronet caught the Whigs bathing, but that he
also desired to trade in their old clothes.—( Expressions of
dissent. ) Well, if he (Mr. Darby) were attacked, he
felt that he had a right to defend himself. The Ho-
nourable Gentleman seemed to ba an advocate for
a free trade in corn. It was undoubtedly the case, that when
the present Ministry came into office they found the agricultu-
ral interest in a difficult position. This was the effect of the
cleverness of the Noble Lord the Member for the City of
London in financial affairs. The Noble Lord had brought the
country into this position, and the consequence had been that
the Canadian Corn Bill had been passed. It was the Noble
Lord who had brought the country to this pass, and it became
the bounden duty of the Government to restore the protection
which they had hitherto enjoyed to the agricultural class; and
he must say, that those taunts of the Noble Lord were alike
uncalled for and unnecessary. When the Canadian Corn Bill
was passed, there was undoubtedly a supposition that the pro-
tection that had hitherto been enjoyed should be preserved.
That there was distress in the agricultural districts was un-
doubted, and he believed that, if the facts were made oat, the
only effectual remedy for the mischief would be an alteration of
the corn-laws. But at the present moment, he must say, that
if the country was labouring under distress, it was the bounden
duty of that House to remove it. He had never entertained a
doubt of the justice of the measure, and when the Hon. Gen-
tleman began to make these attacks, he (Mr. Darby) thought
that he ought to have good grounds for making them ; and
when he saw that the principle of free trade was to be advocated,
he must say that he would rather see it promu'esated by the
Hon. Member for Stockport rather than by the Hon. Gentle-
man at the head of her Majesty's Government.—( Hear, hear. )
Ile must candidly acknowlege that he was sent into that House
with a view to support that protection which the agriculturists
of this country had hitherto enjoyed, and he must say that, in
the course which he had hitherto pursued, he had nothing to
regret, and if the same circumstances were again to arise, he
must say that he should act precisely in the same way again—
(Divide, divide)—and if those measures were to obviate is e
protection which the agriculturists desired, and which their
interests needed, ha should feel obliged to vote with the Hon.
Member for Somersetshire. The farmers had been called
upon to reduce their expenditure, but he believed that this
was an utter impossibility. —( Divide, divide. )
Sir CHARLES BURRELL (who rose amidst much con-
fusion) said that he would not detain the House one moment.
He saw the state of excitement which the House evinced, and
he only rose for the purpose of saying that the notice of the
lion. Membsr for Somersetshire was good in itself, and well
worthy of attention, and if it led to a modification which had
of late been introduced, it would lie advisable not only with
regard to corn, but cattle.—( Divide, divide. )

Mr. G. SMY i'llE said that he had listened with surprise
if not with admiration, to the cru-hing reply made by the lion.
and Learned Member for East Sussex to the speech of his
Hon. Friend the Alembor for Shrewsbury—the speech not de-
livered that night, but that delivered a fortnight ago.—( Hear.
hear.) He was not unjustifiable, and he trusted that some
lion. Gentlemen at least might believe that he rose not without
some cause to answer the speech of the Hon. and Learned
Member for East Sussex, the invective, and the philippic
which he had directed against his lion. Friend the Member for
Shrewsbury. It was far from his intention to interfere in the
schism that appeared in the House that evening. It was far
from his intention to address a speech to that House in the
spirit of the Hon. Member for Sussex, and continued in the
same spirit in the speech also of the Hon. Member for East
Sussex ; but he would say this to the Hon. Members, that it
was not by raking among preceding speeches—not by going
back fifteen years, that he could entertain or form any opinion of
his Hon. Friend.—(" Hear," from Col. Peel.) The Hon. and
Gallant Colonel, the Clerk to the Beard of Ordnance, had done
him the honour to cheer a speech of his. If the Hon. and Gal-
lant Colonel would call to his mind the vote he gave on the
Irish Registration Bill, and supposing that question coming on
again to-mo:row, how would his vote then agree with that he
had formerly given? Or, supposing that the Maynooth ques-
tion were discussed, how would the Hon. and Gallant Colonel
vote on that question? lie would tell the Hon. and Learned
Member for East Sussex, that this question, if it were not
solved by the great minds that the Hon. Member for Wolver-
hampton made so happy an allusion to—if this question were
not solved by them, he (Mr. Smythe) might be permitted to
suggest to the Honourable and Learned Gentleman,
that his great parochial mind—(Loud laughter)—would
never solve the national difficulties.—( Continued laughter. )
Differing, as he probably would, from his lion. Friend the
Member for Shrewsbury, on the vote he would come to that
evening, he could not withhold his testimony that the effect of
the speech of his Hon. Friend would be more likely to be pro-
ductive of public good than the motion of the lion. Member
for East Sussex would be. His motion resulted in the bringing
the state of the country before the House, but he (Mr.
Smythe) thought it would be productive of mote good to bring
the state of the House before the country.—( Cheers. )
Mr. P. BORTHWICK rose amid a mingled shout of
" Speak out," " Go on," and " Divide, eivide.") The lion.
Member made several attempts to be heard, but the cries and
shouts from all parts of the House completely drowned every
sentence. When the lion. Member could be listened to, he
said,—What was the question before the House ?—( Laughter,
cheers, and cries of " Divide.") It was unseemly to see one
section of the House rising against another section, but he
protested against this question being brought before the House
in such an unconnected manner.—(Laughter and cheers, which
interrupted the lion. Member, and after a futile effort to ad-
dress a few words to the House, he sat down. )
Sir ROBERT PEEL said he wished in a few sentences to
state the grounds why he felt it to be his duty to offer his op-
position to the motion which had been made. He opposed the
motion because the object of it was merely to transfer a certain
sum from the county-rate to the consolidated fund. In his
opinion they would be practising delusion upon the
agricultural interest—(Heer, hear )_impressing them with
a belief that it could in any material degree bear
upon their interests. His Hon. Friend stated that the total
amount which lie believed his motion would produce was about
260,0001., to be transferred from one fund to another.
It was not an absolute remission of taxation falling upon agri-
culturists, but merely to transfer that amount from the county-
rate to the consolidated fund. Now, supposing in that way
they gave absolute relief of 260,000/. to the agriculturists,
they would have to bear it in another way. It
would only be relieving them from one species of
taxation to take up an ,titer. But his Honourable Friend
forgot that he confined this relief to the agriculturists of Eng-
land. Why was it not to be extended to Scotland and Ireland?
Consequently the whole would be a charge of perhaps 300,0001.
or 400,0001., which must be placed on the Consolidated Fund.
Now he had a strong impression that if placed on the Consoli-
dated Fund the check on the expenditure would be much less
efficient than it was at present. The Government, acting
through its officers, probably newly appointed, who would have
much smaller means of exercising their vigilance than the psr-
ties who were appointed to superintend this charge. To oh-
, tain, therefore, relief from England for 260,0001. of direct
taxation in the county-rate there must be a transfer to the
consolidated fund, probably of nearly 400,000/., with prospect
of a continued increase, to be placed upon that fund. But who
contributed to that fund ? The consolidated fund meant
nothing more nor less than the taxation of the country, to
which the agricultural interest was liable. His Hon. Friend
said that the taxation now placed on the county rate would be
relief to the lower class of farmers and peasants. But did
not the lower class of farmers and peasants contribute by indi-
rect taxation to the consolidated fund? Consequently, it
would be merely commutation of taxation, and his belief was
that the agricultural interest which his Hon. Friend intended to
benefit would derive no substantial benefit from that measure.
His Hon. Friend, however, professed that to be his object. lie
( Sir Robert Peel) rather thought that his lion. Friend would
receive support from others who meant their acquiescence in
this motion to be tantamount to a condemnation of the finan-
cial proposals made by her Majesty's Government. Because
he found in a circular which had been issued from the Protec-
tion Agricultural Society, that gentlemen had been expressly
invited to vote for this motion upon the ground that the re-
mission of taxation which they proposed was not favourable to
the agricultural interest, and that the motion of his Hon.
Friend ought to be acquiesced in, for the express purpose of effec-
tually resisting the further progress in measures of free-trade
If, therefore, that were the ground upon which his lion.
Friend brought forward his motion, or others were inclined to
support it, still less was it in his power to acquiesce in the moa
tion of his lion. Friend. Ile had had placed in his hand the
following letter, addressed to a Member of that House, solicit-
ing his support to the motion of his Hon. Friend upon rather
different grounds from that which lie stated it. This letter
was from a local Protection Society, addressed by the
secretary of the society to a Member of Parliament, and
was to this effect:—r' I am directed to inform
you that a communication from the Central Protection So-
ciety was laid before the Managing Committee yesterday, of
which the following is a copy :--` It is the opinion of this
Committee, that the retni aims of the several duties which
Robert Peel proposes to al!eliah4l; tie
remission ^` •
taxation,
%sill tend neateriedly to lessen the clunk—
ent
lebenr, arid reduce the price
• ~m of agricultural
many of the numerous pro-
( auctions of the •-.'
C‘atural
The principle upon whirls agri-
protection is based, is to maintain protection

for British agriculture, not less than that which
existed at its formation.' This Committee, therefore, recurs).
mends that provincial Protection Societies urge, by deputation
or otherwise., their local representatives in Parliament to sup-
port Mr. Miles's motion, and use their best endeavours to re•
sist these free-trade measures." That appeal, therefore, wea
clearly made, not for the purpose of gaining a small remission
of local taxation to the amount of 2e0,000/. to the agricultural
interest, but it was made expressly for the purpose of resisting
the further progress of those measures which it was the inten-
tion of her Majesty's Government to introduce, and to
imply censure and condemnation on their financial policy.
Whatever, therefore, was the ground for supporting this motion,
it was clearly out of his power to acquiesce in it.---( Hear, hear. )
The House consented, by a large majority, to the continuance
of a tax of 5,200,000/. on the income and property of the coup.
try. The coxtinuance of that tax would not have been con,:.
sented to by the House and the public, if it hail not been accom-
panied by a declaration of Government in respect to its finan-
cial policy.-( Hear, hear.) He conceived, therefore, that if
he were to acquiesce in this proposal-foreseeing that it would
lead to an abandonment of the policy previously declared-he
should be guilty of gross bad faith.-( Hear.) It was quite clear
that if he abandoned 400,0001. of revenue, he could not follow
out the principles which lie laid down in proposing the income-tax
without a deficit to that amount.-( Hear, hear.) The motion
was, therefore, to be regarded as a vote of censure upon the
financial policy of the Government.-( Hear, hear.) Ile would
not say that he at all regretted the course of policy which the
present Government had adopted. Let. the House look to the
condition of the country is hen he came into office.-( Hear. )
He well recollected the statements which were made as to the
distressed condition of the manufacturers.-( Hear, hear.) He
well remembered the complaints as to the stete of commerce ;
and, above all, as to the condition of the labourers in the manu-
facturing districts.-( Hear.) He remembered hearing, from
the Hon. Member for Sheffield, tha., in that town, there
were 3,000 houses uninhabited. He well remembered the
touching accounts which were given of the condition of thu
labouring classes, who were represented as struggling to main-
tain an unwholesome subsistence upon the flesh of animals dead
from disease.-( Hear, hear.) He remembered the statement
from Paisley, that in that town, in 1841, twelve thousand per-
sons -and at one ti ee seventeen thousand persons who rose
in the morning without knowing how to obtain subsistence
for the day, except from voluntary anti casual charity.-( Hear,
hear.) In assuming office he did not think that he was put in
to support the partial interest of any class--(Cheers)-but he
consider, d that it was the duty of the Government to take a
comprehensive view of the interest of all classes-(Cheers)-..
and he had now proved that it was the interest of all—
and especially of the agricultural class-that manufactures
and commerce should be re-animated and revived.-( Cheers. )
It was easy to talk of the effect which the importation of 30ta
r 400 swine might have upon the agriculturist. But let the
House look to what had been the effect of the measures of the
Government upon the condition of the manufacturers.-( Hear,
hear.) They were now told that the improvement was only the
effect of the season, or that the remission of five millions of
taxes had had nothing to do with the revival of industry. But
they would recollect when they were told that confidence in
better seasons would be wholly useless-that there was no hope
for the revival of manufactures and commerce-that all was
delusion-if they did not take the food of other countries itt.
• exchange for the manufactures of this.-( Bear.) The improve.
ment, however, had taken place. He would now read some of the
circulars which had been given out. from the manufacturing dis-
' tricts in the present year. (The Right Hon. Baronet then read a
circular dated January 1, 1845, from a manufacturing house
in the north, setting forth the great improvement which had
taken plae e in manufactures and commerce in consequence of
the relief of the burthens c.f industry and the opening of new
markets.) Such was the account at the commencement of
the present year.-( Hear, hear.) Let them contrast that
with the statements made as to the condition of commerce and
agriculture in the year 1842.-( clear, hear.) Now let them
observe the bearing this had upon agriculture; and it was a
remarkable circumstance as showing the increased prosperity
of the country. In 1844 the quantity of wheat used in this
country was 2,128,000 quarters, being no less than 047,000 quar-
ters more than in the preceding year, 184:3, and the wholeof that
consumption was of wheat the produce of this country.
The importation of Foreign wheat in the latter year was
precisely the same as that of the preceding year ; in speaking,
therefore, of the improved coudition of the labourer, it must
be remembered, Octh there was an increase in the consumption
of wheat in one year, to the amount of 27,000 quarters so
that it might be fairly said, that the measures of the present Go-
vernment had tended to increase manufactures and he had already
given them conclusive proof that there had been a correspond-
ing benefit to agriculture.-( Hear, hear.) Ile opposed this
motion in 1645 upon precisely the same grounds as he did in
1836, he then thought it held (eat hopes of relief which could
not be carried into effect. He, at that time, differed from
those with whom he was acting, but he said then, as he said
now, there was no tax mainly bearing on agriculture except the
malt tax, that it was in their power to relieve, and he thought
that all would agree with him that the taxes they proposed to
remove were far the best. The question of agricultural pro-
tection would shortly be raised, and upon that occasion be
should be prepared to say why the corn-laws should not be abo-
lished ; at the same time, he must say that he thought it was
for the interests of tl• c country that they should relax their re-
strictive laws with great caution. He said this for the advan-
tage of all classes d the community, he believed the system of
prohibition and extreme protection 'to Ise wrong ; he did not
support the protection of the \Vest India interests in a commer-
cial point of view, but he lo ked at the length it had existed,
and the obligation they were under to maintain their colo-
nial empire, added to which he believed the
sudden removal of protection was an injury-( Hear).-
not only to the West Indies, but to trade in general. They
had been taunted on one side of the House with acting inju-
riously to the agricultural, and on the other side with being
mere instruments of the agricultural patty. In spite of alt
this he would say, that it was their intention to continue in
the course they were pursuing, not yielding to one party or the
other. They had attempted gradually to abolish prohibitory
duties, and to relax extreme protection. The Hon. Gentle-
man the Member for Shrewsbury had repeated an accusation
that he had made on a former occasion. Ile should not enter
into any personal enntroversy.-( Hear, hear.) But when be
proposed the tariff in 1842, and when he was charged by Hon-
ourable Members for doing so, lie found that an Hon-
ourable Member got up in his place, and asserted
that the change had been made without due examination.
He found the same Hon. Gentleman also stating, that the con-
duct pursued by the Right Hon Baronet was in exact har-
mony, in perfect consistency, with the principles in reference
to free trade laid down by Mr. Pitt ; and his reason for laying
down thus much, was to refute the accusations which had been
brought against the present Government, that in order to get
into, and being in, to keep in office, they had changed their
policy on this question. Those sentiments were attributed to
Mr. D'lsraeli.-( Cheers and laughter.) He held in the
same estimation the panegyric and the attack ; but he certainly
had been surprised, remembering the defence of the Hon.
Gentleman, that the accusation which he had made 'that night
should proceed from him.-( Cheers. )
Mr. BANKES said, as he understoed that his Right Hon.;
Friend proposed to postpone the consideration of one remission
of taxation until after Easter, be should delay until that
period what he had to say in reference to the agricultural
interest.

Captain HARRIS expressed his regret at the recriminatory
character which the debate had assumed. The Right Hon.
Baronet had, however, admitted that there were special burdens
pressing upon agriculture, and he was now called upon to
make a relaxation in its favour. He hoped that those whet
were connected in that interest would combine to secure the
object.

v3lr. PLUMPTRE wished very briefly to state his revon
for objecting to the motion of the Hon. Member for Somer.
setshire. He thought that neither the time nor manner wero
such as to call upon him for support ; and fcr that reason het
must withheld his assent.

The House then divided, when the numbers were—
For the resolution .. .....•.. .................. 78
Against
Majority against the resolution —.136
CUSTOMS' DUTIES ACT.
The House then went into Committee on the Customs'
Duties Act. When the item of " Basket rods" had been react
out as one of three on which the duties was prepared to be re.
mitted,

. ,
Mr. M. MILNES said if the duty should be remitted or
this article, great injury would be done to the growers of them'
in this country.
Mr. FERItAND agreed with the lion. Member.

Sir R. PEEL could not see shy exception should be taken
to this more than to other articles of the same claso, which hat
just been read.—The subject then dropped.
Upon the item of " Bones" being read,
Capt. PECII ELL expressed a hope that these foreign bones
would not be allowed to be ground or crushed in workhouses.
On the item of" furniture wood" being read,
Mr. C. BULLER said there had been lately several new'
kinds of wood, for the manufacture of furniture, introduced into
this country. These were not enumerated in the new tariff.
and he wished to know whether they would be a.imitted under
the general description. lie referred in particular to Ceylon,
woods, and several which came from New Zealand.
Sir GEO. CLERK was understood to say that these woods
would not be excluded.

Mr. L ABOUCHERE said there were many woods grow
in the colonies which might be used for furniture woods, whirls
were now excluded by the duties imposed on them.
Mr. FIUME suggested that all woods used for furniture
should be admitted.

Sir GEO. CLERK said this would admit all kinds of wood
without duty.
Mr. HUTT said he would tomorrow deliver a list of Neer
Zealand woods to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. C. BULLER said this would be unjust to Ceylon.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it sr33
absolutely necessary to enumerate the furniture woods.
Mr. HUME said they might enumerate the woods on which
duty was to be paid, and admit all others free.
Mr. HAVES 'rade a similar suggestion.
The, CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
if any 'new wood should be imported, it would be in the dis.
cretion of the Treasury to admit it free of duty.
Mr. C. BULLER said it was proposed to admit olive woodl
free, but not big wood.
After a few words, the items wore agreed to.
Upon certain articles relating to food being proposed,
Mr. EWART said that he would postpone his motion rata..
tive to butter and cheese, to the duty on which he was de.
cidedly opposed, till the third resolution.
Mr. MILES wished the House to defer the consideration°
those articles which were calculated to trench on the protective
interests of the British agriculturist. They might take „th
articles which were not so opposed on that night, and defer the
others for discussion. One article he should object to would
he grease and another oil when they came to them.
Sir G. CLERK said that the grease and lard which would be
so imparted would be unfit for food and could not compete with
the agricultural produce.
Mr. BF IGHT said the Hon. Member for Somersetshire
had forgotten chalk.—(Great laughter.) Grease and butter
were admitted, because they were unfit for food. It wag
rather a singular circumstance that the articles to be impanel
free, should have the extraordinary quality of being unfit for
food. He did not think that the House was called on to legis-
late for food to dogs, when human beings were held in such
slight regard.
Mr. MILES—If this proposition is agreed to, 1 shall rsanya
the adjournment of the House.
Mr. B. ESCOTT.—If the Hon. Member for Somerset.
shire wishes to bring agriculture into utter contempt, this i 3
the way to do it.
Mr. MILES.-1 am not to be told how to do my duty. I
am not to be deterred by the taunts and sneers of the Hon.
Member. He might know my character well enough to know,
that if lam determined on a thing I will do it. I have thrown
out a proposition which shows me wish cot to pu%
any iinpedimeat in 5140 way of the tariff.
Sir 11. PEEL was not prepared to press particular articiej
against the wishes of any Gentleman in that louse.
Mr. B. ESCOTT explained.
Several items having been gone through,
The House resumed, the Chairan reported progress, amt
obtained leave to sit again on Wednmesday.
The House then went into Committee of Supply, wheraiseve.
sal estimates were agree(' to.
The CUAARMAN r!-ported progress, and obtained leave to
sit again on W:,:wesday.
_ 7)7., other orders of the day were Shea disposed of, and the
douse adjourned at a Quarter past Two o'clock.

GRE.:NWICII FAIR —Great preparations are being
made at Greenwich for the holiday folks during the Eastr
week, notwith:Aandiug the continual severity of the weather.