The Sun.
London, England, 1826-03-21 00:00:00

Istenstef the Catholices in the way of education. It would be
much better to leave each religion to its own clergy, and to
poceed to the general purposes of education in such a manner
as not to offend the peculiar tenets of any class. Ireland was
essentially a religious nation, and had a strong disposition to
ere airage scriptural reading, were it unconnected with sante
/ism views.
Mr. PEEL woultiSiie extremelyeorry if false inferences were
d, awn from the adoptinn of this vote for the purpose of edu-
eation in Ireland. The real question was, first, under what
Principle!' eduesition in that country should be superintended ;
arid next, what was to be done with the existing establish-
: talents for thatpurpose, until better 'were faintedle.They. were
-all 'Agreed, hc.aapprehended, that' the best system would be
cue which worked under regular, permanent, and responsible
Parliamnentary Commissioners. And as to the mode of education
• to be pursued, fie was; he confessed, very much disposed to agree
in the opinion of Dr. Murray, the Roman Catholic Archbishop
of Dublin, that Protestants and Catholics. Might he educated
• toeether in one common school, provided each were left to re-
cove religious instruction from their own partienlar pastors.
At the same time Dr. Murray very properly admitted, he saw
s net objection to such it compiletion from the Scriptures for
•chool purpose as would embody some of those great principles
aid:their common faith, in which both Catholics and Protestants
- ...indiscriminately concurred. This to him appeared the true
' • principle which they ought to endeavour to carry into effect,
And, leir only inquay-ought to be how it could best be done.
• When, as to the existing institutions for pnrpoSes'of education,
imperfect as they were, would it be politic to take away from
them all support before better were established ? It became,
therefore, necessary' to maintain them some time longer, unless
a permanent injury were to be inflicted on the cause of edu-
scation in Ireland. lie had himself been secretary. in Ireland
-when the Kildare-street Society was established—tntleed, he
bad at that time himself drawn up a Bill to carry into effect it
comprehensive System of education in that country under the
superintendence of seven or eight able Commissioners ; and he
• was -only diverted from his purpose by the opinion of other
Uentlemen connected with Ireland, and who were his pond-
s, cal opponents, who dreaded the alarm that might be felt by.
the people were their 'education to be managed by a Govern-
-soot Board. Finding, however, just at the moment a so-
, ciety formed which was composed. of persons of all religions
• upon a comprehensive plan, the Government- bad thought
• proper„to atelect- that society as the instrument for carry.-
- • ,mg into effect the recommendation in the 14th Report of
-- ties Commissioners -of Education, which would have been
the object of •his Bill, had he pursued it. Now, Whatever
objections might have arisen to the proceedings of this
• society, it was on all hands admitted that it had diffused to a
great extent useful-and valuable books among the community.
Would it be wise, then, to. paralyze their efforts at the :present
anotnene? The number- of scholars they educated might be
overrated.; that there could •be no mistake in the intbrmation
• they conveyed through. the spreading of valuable hooks ; but
• e • tVt.ll as to the tirtment of scholars, take It at the Mini/Mtin of
• -Roman Catholics menthmed, and at leuet to that amount they
:•:`• ..uaust be admitted to have done good. The Right Hon. Gen.
' • tleasian then referred to the reports of the society respecting
• atheir circulation of books, and from these it appeared that in the
-year tuie, they hail distributed of books, admitted upon all
lianda to be unobjectionable, 110,000 copies ; in 1820, 123,000 ;
in 1021, 163,000 ; in 11122, 105,000 ; in lien, 106,000 ; and in
• the very last year, 172,1116. • In conclusion, he would implore
- Honourable Members not to cast a stigma on is society which
bait done great service, which stigma he thought mimimet be
implied by affirming the first of these resolutions. They were
all in time House agreed upon the general Principle of education,
but the affirmiog the reselutions would be construed differently
out of doori, and would, he thought, be the source of divisions,
which it would be extremely desirable to prevent. He did not
know whether he correctly understood the It ight Hon- Gent. who
spoke last, ie supposing him to have expressed a wish that edu-
cation should be given to the Rotnan Catholic children without
religious intarticsion. It that were his (Mr. Al. Fitzgerald's)
opiniou) he,could not concur in it. He had no wish to see, and
.he hoped it never would be seen in this country, that religious'
.instruction tiliould be omitted Nit' the education of youth. Ile
had, no desire to see a set of young philosophers deriving
their morality from any other than a religious basis. Neither
Ilia he wish to see young ragged Irishmen walking through
the country with Ciceros and Virgils under their arms, and
ettelying those authors, when they might he more usefully
engaged in acquiring an education more suited to their condi.
Gm. Ile again begged that llon. Alembers would not press
those resolutions to a division, for, if that were the case, he
shad no alternative but to reject them, and he was extremely
:.anxioue that there should not appear -to be any difference of
.opinion on this subject.
Mr. M. FITZ(SERALD, in explanation, said, that he was
far from wishing to see the education of any elites in Ireland, or
elsewhere, unaccompanied with religious instruction. All he
fiadswished for was, that though Catholic anti Protestant. chil.
"then.should have their general education in common, their re-
. jigious instruction might be separate.
Mr. PEEL--Then 1/r. Murray went farther than this; for
he teas of opinion that selections might be made from the saved
'Scriptures which 'would answer children of Protestants and
taitholies. •
Sir .1. NEWPORT contended, that the affirming these reeo.
'lotions would not tend to cast any slur on the Kildare-street
. 6)clety, because that institution professed not to imam with
elie, religious opinions of the children. He thought it would be
Isettee to affirm these resolutions, or at least the first of them,
. Au(l4l4an go into the committee to ascertain what sum ought to
,be vote& The Right Hon. Baronet then proceeded to point
end the great inconvenience which arose in some of the charity:.
schools trent the went of a primer supply of books. A gentle.
e •mn who .visited one of those schools found a volume of Rode.
eick Random, used by one of the boys xis a school-book ; and
pn inquiriu,why such me book was Allowed, was told that the
t boys brought any book they could get, in which to learn to
. read. With respect to the system of religious education, he
etruld not see how any difficulty could arise, in allowing one day
welt of the six for giving religious instruction to the children
separately according to their respective creeds, and leaving
theta on the other dart to receive general education iti common.
Looking at the principle in this light, he could see no evil as
likely to result from the adoption of the resolutions before the
Ilouee.
Mr. lIOULBURN said, that though they might all agree
in the first or the resolutions, as an abstract proposition, yet
the adoption of it at present would be injurious, as tending to
cast a stigma on the Kildare-street Society.
.Mr...ISI.II"VERWORTII said, that if the Bible was held
tee be a bad husk, he thought it ought to be excluded front all
schools; but if it was admitted to be a work of divine inspira-
tions it wait WO Ittuels to assert that my evil could arise to the
• country from its introduction into any. "he Hon. Member then
proceeded to read it long string of resolutions entered into by
home Roman Cetholi schoolmasters in Armagh and Monaghan,
in which they approved of the circulation of the Scriptures
among old and young, 'without note or comment ; and men-
tioned the circulation of such Scriptures (the Roman Catholic
version). by the Irish Society as one of the greatest boons
riliab could be conflated on. Ireland. These, the Hon. Ahem.
.her tulded, were also the sentiment of• the large portion of the
poople of Inland, and tinder those circumstances he thought
that every eneouregement should be given to those societies by
wieleh the Scriptures were so circulated. It was, however, to
be regretted, that the Irish Roman Catholic priests were op.
posed to the introduction of the Scriptures without note or
,comment. The sacred Scriptures—he spoke chiefly of' the
New Testamera—were quite plain and easily understood, and
be thought they might be safely intrusted into • any hands
.without
.note or comment : and without them, it was the
opinion of those best acquainted with Ireland f a strong
moral fouling could not be . impressed on the people of
that country. The want of a moral anti religious educa-
tion among the lower orders had been complained of by
rimy of the judicial authorities in Ireland. Ile would
meeting the instance of a 'learned Judge, who in his charge
to the (iraumi Jury of Cork, complained of the general pre-
valenee.of crime, and said that he was tired of condemning
persons for crimes, without producing any effect in deterring
others from similar offence*: but he added, that he feared any
sylftern of punishment would be ineffectual for that purpose. as
, Xing as the moral and religioue instruction of the peasantry was
neglected. In conclusion, the lion. Member observed, that 'ee
was Aire the nation would never consent to any system of edu•
zetion not founded upon religious instruction ; anti be therefore
would protest agaitust time adoption of, those resolutions which
would seem to disconnect the two.
C. H. HUTCHINSON said, the lion. Gentleman who
last spoke wholly misrepresented the nature of the resolutions
belbre the house, and the observations of the lion. Member
who sopported thews if he thought that it was intended
to disconnect edueetieu from a system of religious in-
struction.. There, was no objection on any side to re-
ligious instruction ; the only, objection was, to its being
made st part of public education in Ireland, which it was
riot ill langlend. Religions instruction was given at all the
Public echools in la
Engnd, but it was not part of the public
education of the pupils as one body. Each scholar was
leveed to to be instructed in his own religious creed. This was all
that ho end those Hon. Friends who supported the resolutions
cordended for. Iset the Protestant and Catholic children receive
their general cduottion inicommon, but let their religious in.
s etem of general education in
- serection be separate. system of general education in
struction st'p..ma i
other principle, would, he was sure,
Ireland, Withal op anilonler
Inc found ineereeieel, 1. he systetn of on which it
was attempted to conduct education in many instances in Ire.
lend. would not succeed, and to the Prevalence of that *Pk-
t_i_ein tined be traced the indisposition of the Roman Ca,
14"gles in so many eases to send their children to the public
eelis wlls lt was extremely unfair to charge upon the Roman
'sagtiolotas au indisposition to give their ouldren,reltinous