The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-22 00:00:00

hJ!'lembers, he felt there were wanting upon it men who ought to
/lue
hav been on it,
asiest whenon was the Hon. Member for
Five been
bur f,
who had given all the information, and upon whose
Motion the Committee had been granted.—( Hear, hear.) In
;that case the usage of the House had been departed from, for
Ta't was almost a rule that the Member who obtained the appoint-
re—eant °f a Committee, should a t as the Chairman of that Corn-
f"tee---(llear, hear.) The Right Ilcn. Baronet took credit
latr not ha.;
,a, ,-•ng put lawyers on the Committee. Now he a Mr.
nutt) was not much in favour of having lawyers on
„elomittees, but here was an inquiry both into fact
eonstitutional law, in which the presence of his
Learned Friend the Member for Worcester, Sir Thomas
Comm ue ought tot to have been dispensed with, and, on that
placedittee, the Solicitor-General ought also to have been
a s.;,*---(Hear, hear.) When the question was first raised,
sa4r ". atson) asked the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite
ie I,h'Y found the law which enabled them to open letters
hirall!'n through the Post-office. The Solicitor- General told
,e thaneit was by th statute of nne confirmed by the Act of
tilietsotria, but the House had front the Lords' 'report, that
And these of Anne gave no such authority.—(Hear, hear. )
but it „lot of Victoria made it a misdemeanor to open letters,
eretaaele Per to detain letters, on the warrant uf the Se-
-11411141,n' State; so that, according to the Lords' repeet, the
iat'ecteian°open letters depended on common law. Now, as
'''°4l2,,in law, what was the fact? He had examined all the
10eli reports, :lid he could not find a single authority for
claimed li,°wer.—( Hear, hesr. ) The Secretary of State naC:
return ne right to seize, read, open, make copies, reseal,
seetetatthe letters of any individual.—( Hear, hear.) He, the
"isle Yof State, was not content to take the bold step of
el hsdsta:etaaeautrr.astdnaking public use of letters for ',utilise PurP°s"e2s
raised 'u done by his predecessers.—( Hear, hear.) This
,
constitutional question—" Ilas the Secretary
Pasorae right to open private letters passing through the
That -ts"'ce?" He (Ir. Watson) said there was no such right.
*meat ," a question which must now be determined. As
only
the
i
Goo ""5 Which that alleged right had been exercised, the
hoe, ;rant and its subordinates knew.—( Cheers.) The
the trib ember for eymouth said that the courts of B
law were
she u Wnals before which this
question should be tried.
lu.
bet be to be the witnesses? The Secretary of State could
striate arnined in a court of law capon the acts of hie Go-
ssea.,evut• The subordinates of the Port-office were sworn to
lirousY"(liear, hear.) But if the Government were ie-
ske try the legality, let them acknowledge the fact—pro-
aa(chee " warrants and bring the whole question fairly to, trial.
Ihaea i'e) General warrants to seize papers, such as were
ustla 6'l the time of Wilkes, were issued in the time of Eliza-
the e„:4°,mwell, and the Is; and "(I Chailes. And yet, when
to came before the courts of law, they were declared
letts...7t4gal• The cases were extremely analogous to the pre-
,th,st afw°, Particulars were very much in pc7int. One was
"tet t4e Editers of the North Briton. The Rasques-
-411,,, tried and the jury gave large d. amages
,tnote who' issued the warrants. The Lord Chief Jus-
t,hati;," that occasion, laid down, as it was well known. in law,
Nee twarrant could be issued except on sufficientevi-
lAintit, The jury were not to consider the meanness of the
Rinret condition, but to bear in mind that they saw a ma-
-6,ser-i, ever all the King's subjects exercising arbitrary
scow hear. ) It seemed to him (Nlr. 'Watson) that
little.difference between seizing a man's papers
Leatier,•)"aihereading, copying, and resealing his letters.—
that of Entinck, which was to
°Pitab',lnlain the 19th
coal" wasof the State Trials. There the
I„4tle°,-, chthe Lord CvhieufmJeustice applied precisely to the pre-
'td
hie-I
Ihe Lord Chief Justice said that " the
thatwarrant
Ine 4 "sued without information previously t.aken, and ,
stet eourse was without precedent, except in the casco
aak'h :11",,e,r,un5."7- (Cheers. ) " There
would
no law to justify
(1 stn f ' If it could be done, there would be no peace ,in
‘,'110n1; }:)r a nian's But were ofien his dearest propeity.'
11(151.1
thee-egi_ngs: ) if that were a right at common law,
opioiono, try co.uld ad uce some instance in sparee4raes
oausome dictum would appear in acme of the
But that could not be law which
Site nweti°nedrbyrenPouratust'hority whatever.—( Hear, hear.) But
Wee pleaded in favour of the right. In Edward
kin'-Gger de Kendal received a warrant to detain and exa-
letter!, In the time of Cromwell orders
eT tTheil fro.W France.
seeizinss P-aliers• But those warrants
41t:ar:leedain very di;:erent circumstances from thepresseect.ti,
Olineg,7.) Still this furnished no precedent for
10',nts, „"ding, and copying a man's letters. At
I,atsl
balartii -° "se had it ever been said that there w.as any ,
41e.iletters. —(Hear, hear. )
.But it was said that the
t. .„‘t existed since the Revolution. Of what value was
aar• bed only a series of illegal actsear, he . )
0401'01" Yates said, " If you show me an illegal act on the
Ods %that do,,
lati„'• 'vats() b.. re ah me this usage from the
not make it law.'—( Cheers.) So said
'sr eon a n You -ow l •11, al " There
itaew ex. not make it one jot theless g. .
tenatio grants authorised by law, but only when issued upont
Aionn' and in these cases there were wane. In the I os -
14„
(IN:'aly ere was no authority to open letters. There
a 'alio "nse to exempt the Postmaster from penalties for
tthotse liof legtrteeltts astamonatrhteaneSeecretary of State's warrant. It
what was the state of
easalta:' and he importance
upon the Solicitor-Generalh
tis "tint 11 what principles of law he defendedd t e
eteat°' the Government. ft had been. state as
et‘t he ie! that discontent prevailed in certain districts.
tiartentslld that was no justification whatever for issuing
re'," SOtiet:gainst any individual. The disturbed statel of,
tisaltared shat id not justify one tyrannical act, when
.the
est- Previa , warrant should be issued unless on informa
hakt, fru"l taken. The Hon. Gentleman then read several,
a' 411,a tMl,the report of the Committee, to show that they
th:wiNe of the grounds on which Sir James Graham
41:4.04M2, beyond his own word that he had done sof
Ilsit4ilestt•l°4, desire to preserve the public peace.. it was o
ktt, 4
ti:olportance to know what the information was. In
thst'oeb,,e9 all remembered, warrants were sent down to
ars ashen."' and other places, and it would be remembered
sole, eine • h , re convicted
e n were afterwasds convicted, tey we
thl"d "'den r a •who instigated them—( (Cheers)
sei toha ate o. tee spies
kt bets
that those spies did not write the letters to
1•11,!'"'S 4,1' which being opened in the Post-office, became
all°acause of suspicion and its confirmation 2—( Hear.)
St vett t the Learned Friend the Member for Bute last night
lat ;Mt°. -"!„eirenmstance of some individuals who were tried
et aPtairo,'„_°eY were tried for a treasonable misdemeanor,
isilloi,in'huta'ley never corresponded with the Hon. Mensber
glareall 'la,' But let them suppose for a moment that there
!as, adai'4"fore their trial, were corresponding . with their
1a ;el 'Nth ,1, and sending in their lettersinformation.
't Rasa ash
defence was to be founded, which would
- .1. 14to the hands of the Government, who were to
ttanot Il)4Mrnation for the purpose of obtaining a conviction.
Rtitthat Ca`ll, a Passer unjust ?—( Hear, hear. ) He must con-
kill, he tcdt'd not agree with the Hon. Member for Sheffield,
Ille;leteiti,ed of the power possessed by foreign States to open
t
kni e°':respondence passing through the Post-office. ,
114') nd he
not consider the practice creditable to any
44.14111 s 'onica of letters in England was encon-
as4fat Rand illegal g Hear,hear.) It was most impor-
Nelytitilt!eOisla• "%al_e,na,beeTs to( bethis opinion, inasmuch as the
tviest`me.tly
inl9 throuh of
before a court of law, and the
i'leat That a,!•'.he appointment. of a Committee of that
e and `.°Mrnittee should have authority to examine
ea 4••• ts„to report to the House, so that a reso-
!kites tarr Come to as to the nature and character of
os;'ewslia•4 This had been the case with regard to the
tv was last session, and the result had been, that the
„'t• IV in possession of valuable information on the
anf beaaere was no kind of arbitrary proceeding which
etas- neat used at some time or other by the Government
ts iler try, es
nut he cit ly to
ate:ell,4°nal matter ofthought was
this inquiry. Heextreme did thinkwron itwas
btpse
- i
° '
° the that the ).,tiers had been
is nkier Case the the country. It was no
;11e'tta1' th°Pee,r letters er
and to turn round and say
atilt 'tisset. nig. had done the same. fl.e repeated it
''"14.°14111 t° the charge, for, he thought it discreditable
Ne'aoh it'll(' Tories if they had done so. It would have
r'Sre:kad found of the Government if, when they came into
tZtlea;tn have that their predecessors had exercised this
Nat been anolished the practice altogether. Had. such a
jnatifsP' and !kluPt''d, it would have reflected credit on the
Sot, the insured him the confidence of the thinking por-
4etat!ef 111)6, u,Ve. As to the inui into the opening of the
,atts;:ei L. dthe Member for Finsbury he could
ptibliu~ria -tk "", any len
kit luman .eing cou o jec •
of
petki kmernment had a right to open the letters ti
',st,utties., Ile was a Member of Parliament, and had
I'4
ttery, si '0 discharge, and to have his letters opened, was
the 11: td I' to him, but to the constituency whom he
171•11„5 bad"°llr to represent.—( Hear, hear. ) Even
Otti`titaes rieign of Charles the Second, and the
I.le, of e 2. Horace 'Walpole, it was considered a high
~4arnentary privilege to detain or examine thef
teaaseMber of that House. It was not a breach o
per
rume the letters of any individual out of that
01%hvsrela.OPeri, there was no doubt, the letters of a Nlens
4"e, evatara•Zeut was manifestly illegal, except it were done
aLrelsetl:vv, a•V of her Alajesty's principal Secretaries of
taiw/aet '°r pin had a right to inquire whether the Hon.
4'',l'4lond urrY's letters had Iseen opened under such a
deaf
teeight ',aas the only course that could be pursued,
noose °n• Baronet would lay the warrant
.on the
11 ' tet'a to issue He must have received information to
s'hst4t ere aim ee the warrant, for he could not have done so
ail'Nrit had 61.4 r, motive—at all events, if the Right Hon.
brawl such. information to justify his issuing the
aaalist hita h°f Privilege had been committed. In 1 ',le,
asge
siPaNnio, Harr.
laid down, and he could not understand
artin b,'e of Thenasa. Members oppesed the motion for inquiry.
tktli ha.d
s_c,?untry called loudly for it, and the. inquiry
lette..,,'"'fY them upon what foundation this power
6t'st. t'w th„ ~` was based. It was time the country should
itiqp, 3. lii,iin‘-'orrnment justified the possession of this
~igaof a, and Learned Friend the Member for Bute
tti:tt'eY) last night was
Hpleased to talk of eel-
reel of no• 113 st Hon. Baronet
e said the feelingsthe off the
it‘4ituZ'Oth,r`°flet must have been hurt, but were the feel-
e,,tPeursons hurt by this debate—had not
,an
to V e,sugatot„, ,l'°n an Hon. Member of that House! ‘Was
teueli,'nts, s, 'a his honour to know that the Government
tl thijalad received some information to induce them
I•'Y 's
info had been •
.h, rtnation „ guilty of some impropriety? What
ha', "oat "ed it? Government had received—how had.
ti,s, f flied Were their informants worthy of
.credit ?
ce4'ira, tir if; i,e9ght, to demand answers to these interro-
5, a, ha.d information was not just and fair, a breach
Lle iiiaavotadiren committed by the issuing of the war-
iOQrged l? , In :onse_e,n
.by the resolution of that
.House agreed
c't,'"on he called upon his Rightand
`,loistit,:aareiai,',' Satisfy the House that the power of detain-
taa,ha a.,-•••(ch? lett!rs was founded upon legal evidence and
ts'et*asauLlClTZ. )a.ea,
ale' been she most GENERAL commenced by stating that
has
_disagreeable and painful debate which it had
to listen
alre
att's,tiia%ldd. ao 't"stitoortune to listen to within the walls of that
ill; the aet, I t uught
ady been sufficiently ro-
e, b scoops id, however have been impossible for him,
sag h 9. th, e, the
befit 'us Noble LorPdui reference which
stea ate aa'n'eta. and the Member, for the City of London,
tOotl!. Learned fed friend the Memberfor Bute, last
~hlktss,ietließsutWith,aorlatresspassing upon the attention of the
ine h Which umg, he felt most acutely some of the
ti h ad take
,Lkt 4.4_,gr,tted 11 place in that House, and netw.ith-
tea t-`9l,
deed' inset deeply many of the expressions
e, Le,
1, llat,.tna the general tone and temper of the taatteee,
aTotild Can; the observations which he should have to
tlet4"" the
B,lbOact the whole consistently with the im-
the ba•ost;---(lle„,,lect heardan the maintenance of the dignity of
siett. sZtraard.--,
,a
It appeared to I that they were
Isilt,ll )4ettberif.uariapo„tion „ith tntm the motion of
itt:ddeliberatiner Insbury, mho respect
had prepared
I%'ihitiOrk t 4 then and
.care the 'propos'ition 'which he had
sae tiered eeast
aeortsideration of the House. That
t by h. u 55" been revised d afterwards
it cit,suthers "11. Whether
• an ,
Ova, 'geae' or by Li_ it was by the ad-
tlatic th Jai) was
nas, own better judgment, he (the
t4ltete'in. ie„,_" Prepared to say. True, however,
te his
aa'al,9er was induced to omit from the
Oi'saseertaander as oT?"ton some expressions which he ap-
Latta ess,o2at!ti in a lectionable, and accordingly the motion
l'iNsea,"o reghte',rernodelled form, when at a late period
_ o„ „s oehate, after •
_L Mew" non, ALI many arguments had been
oer for nOers who had preceded the Noble
ysop_. ..n whieh underland, to the articular terms of
lariOdeteatwa'al contained Proposition of the PHon. Member for
kre:' fo he Nohle Lord the Alember for
a tide Intern the „et, , • est aieet an, the nan :moment. Another
%Viseh,a was „ 'ember for Shrew -fury, said the
a starpris."' \'-ttekived in what
k 114 't to hirn , any servile spirit ;
Vtlrf 2 • PPOr
theelth Solicit
sa serlarierit Tan
by H n
Memberthis:l were himself in a
atl4, o„en rd the Member
is
Ulm P and avowed opponent.
WaS and they looked for ouch an