The Sun.
London, England, 1821-05-16 00:00:00

coals, it was saiid3,• were 'open to the suffererz,'.if
any thing illegal occurred; that it would be extra
judicial,- to- pronounce an opinion' then; but at
this very time an extra judicial- examination also
was going on on the part of the Solicitor.- of the
Treasury against' Mr. Hunt. Ile could not omit
this oPportunit of stating, that he.wai astonish-
ed to hear his Learned Friends oppoilte (the So-
licitor and Attorney General) opposing 'the ap-
plicatio❑ of Mr. Hunt not to be tried in the
county of Lancaster, where, from all the cir-
s•amstances, it was impossible that he could
expect a fair trial. The . Learned Judges,
seeing the justice of the application, did not
hesitate to comply with it. If they were en-
tering into an inquiry whether 36 or 48 bad been
the number at the infirmary., the House would do
well to reject the motion ; but the object was to
rescue the insulted Constitution of England, and
to prevent this Act from being Construed into a
precedent, and for this reason he thought this
inquiry was and ought to he persisted in. The
House was told the time was past, but it was known
that during the last year the stranve and infatuat-
ed= conduct of Ministers which ;traced all their
misdeeds, and• the misdeeds of those who went
before, prevented it, and rendered it an object
of more importance. The country was told the
House of Commons was 'not a_fit place for in-
9s.iiry. What! not fit for inquiry into a viola-
-Con of the Constitution ? And this they were
told at a moment when the House of Commons
-was willing to enter into an inquiry against
a persecuted female ; for evidence against whom
air the. inns of the Continent had been searched;
fi-orn the effects of which the people of England
fad happily protected that illustrious individual.'
-(Hear, hear !)---If the House was willing to
let that business sleep, why endeavour to keep
the .question alive by the trial of the Hon. Baro-
net, and that not at a place where the letter was
originally published. After this trial had been
cbricintled a doubt existed in the mind of the
Learned fudge, whose duty it was to pronounce
sentence, that the tribunal was not legally corn-
petent to try ; after this it was a little too much
to tell the House that inquiry ought to cease.
In the course now pursued, the object of the
Ministers was not to exalt the character of the
House, but to degrade it.—(Hear, hear!)—He
should support the motion of the Hon. Baronet.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL animadverted on th►e
charge of his Learned Friend,- that the• Ministers
of the Crown gave directions for the conduct of
the Magistrates of Manchester on the occasion
which was the subject of that night's discussion.
He would take upon himself to contradict per-
emptorily every word of that charge, and assert
that his Ministers had no communica-
tiou with these Magistrates on the subject, until
.after the transaction in question had occurred.—
Hi:; Majesty's Ministers had acted as they were
bound to do on that occasion. His Learned Friend
had thought proper to drag into his speech 9.
'thins topics, which could have no just connection
with the subject. He alluded to his conduct, and'
that of his Learned Friend (the Attorney-Gene-
Tap; in opposing a motion of Mr. Hunt's to re-
move his trial from the County of Lancaster. He
-would tell the House fairly why himself and his
Learned Friend found themselves called upon
to.take the course they did. That was, that had
they acquiesced in the application, it would have
-been tantamount to a declaration, on their •part,
that no Jury could be selected from the County
-of Lancaster sufficiently honest to be entrusted
-with the trial of this matter. As this, however,
-would have been an unmerited stigma, it was
'lmpossible for them to have acted otherwise than
-they did. His Hon. Friend next adverted, for
-the purpose of inflaming the House, and t):..ongh
-'the House, the Country, to a topic' whieL,'lre
really thought, for the best interests of the Coun-
try, ought to be for ever set at rest. He -had,
however, to state, both for himself and for the
Ministers of the Crown, that they were not at
all ashamed of the part they acted on that occa-
sion. Situated as they were, there was no pos-
sibility of their' acting otherwise. In order to
judge effectually of this question, he ought to re-
•cal the attention of the House to the events
-which preceded the Meeting at Manchester. He
mast remind the House of the Meeting at Smith-
field, held in conjunction with others of a simi-
lar nature all over the country. Hunt was
t the head of this meeting,- and the House
would remember the treasonable nature of the
Resaiutions agreed to there, and which were
to have been proposed at Manchester. The
-House would recollect that these meetings were
is furtherance of a professed project of the
Reformers to exhibit their physical force, to
overthrow the Constitution of the country.—
They would then judge how far the illegal meet-
ing of Manchester was calculated to inspire
terror, and to claim from the Magistrates the
utrne,st vigilance and promptitude. The lion.
Baronet asked why the Yeomanry were selected
to act in preference to the regulars. The fact
was, it was purely accidental, and arose from
their being first on the ground, the regulars, hav-
ing in the state i❑ which the town was, -deemed
it prudent to take a circuitous route, in order to
avoid passing a defile, which only-admitted one
person a-breast. This principal objection to this
-motion was, that that House, with 658 Members,
•each entitled to put as manyquestions as he
pleased, was not a fit tribunal to elicit truth.—
The Courts were open, and it was remarkable
that not a single civil action had been brought.—
'The expellee could not be urged, for the Hon.
Baronet himself had contributed largely to the
-fund established for this purpose.
Mr. PHILIPS (of Manchester) said he should
'not have taken part in this debate, had he not
resided at the place where the transactions oc-
curred, and had he not studiously avoided giv-
ing an opinion on the subject when it was last be-
:fore the notice of the House. Although the state
of the country was disturbed, yet justice requir-
ed him to admit that the general expectation
ethfre was, that the meeting of the 1-6th of Au-
gust would pass off peaceably, unless it was dis-
terbed by 'the Magistracy;. and he had been r
cured on the best evidence that such was the"
though after the charge of the Yeomanry the Lt.-
most confusion and disorganization /prevailed.
After an eulogium on the character of the Rev.

Mr. Stanley, who happened to -he present, the
Honourable Gentleman read a letter from him,
relating to the events or the 16th of August, and
to a narrative he had given of thorn. It was de-
cidedly Mr. Stanley's opinion, that the Nyarrants
Might have' Doen executed without the aid of the
military : he also spoke in his narrative most de-
ci;ively as to the ill treatment Mr. Hunt had re-
ceived, and `to the cruelty of the military to the
mob; Mr. Stanley added, that as far as his. ob-
servation went, the representation of the transac-
tions in The Times newspaper was correct. Such
were the principal - features of the relation the

lion. Member had received from Mr. Stanley.
As far as he (Mr. Philips) had been able to ascer-
tain, the people had armed themselves but little
before the 16th of August ; if .arms were dis-
covered anterior to. that' date, he believed that
they had been deposited by spies and informers.
—(llear !)

The So LICIT° It-GENERAL said, across the
table, that two trials and convictions showed that
the people had•prepared arms in large quantities
before the 16th of .August.. • -
Mr. PHlmps-continued.—He was very ready
to 'admit- that'after-•the•l6th August the people
'armed •themselves -very extensively, with a view
to their own protection-; but he still. contended,
that they had not armed themselves in any large
nurnhers•befOre the meeting, when their peace-
able
.proceedings were disturbed by the yeomanry.
To -this day it was unknown who had ordered
them to advance-; - this--of ,itself deserved investi-
gation ; and :the whole-case., for the sake of the
:liberties•and. security of the people, demander!
inquiry. • With regard to the rejection of Bills
by the -Grand-Jury of Lancashire, -he meant to
cast no reflection upon the Members of that body ;
but. in reflecting on the grounds on which they
might have thrown- out the indictments, it was
but fair to take into consideration the .state of
parties and political feeling -in the county.------
FrOm their influence it - could not be expected
that Grand• Jurors would be. altogether.exempt.
Many doubts had existed with regard to the le-
gality of the meeting; and if it were illegal, they
might entertain an opinion that thosewho had
been present Were liable for the consequences of
attending it,...and ought not to be the prosecutors
of Bills to punish those who had inflicted injuries
among them. He did , not say • that :such -had
'been- the ground on which the decision of the
.Grand jury had proceeded; but it did-not seem
at all improbable that some such notion might
have operated upon them. Upon the whole view
of the case, without:entering more- at large into
itlat this late hour,. he thought the motion of the
Hon. Baronet highly expedient. •
When the Hon. Gentleman resumed his scat, the cries of
" qtaestioa7 became, general.
Mr. B. 'WILBRAHAM explained ina low tone as to some
misinterpretation of what had fallen from him. - _

Sir R. WILSON moved that this debate be adjourned• until
to-morrow,—(No, no: question: adjourn.)
-The- SPEAKER pui the 'question, that the debate be ad-
journed till• to-morrow (this day.) •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER made a single
remark,:not audible in the confusion of the House after which
the motion for au adjournment of the debate was carried with-
out a division.

The other orders of the day were gone through : afterwards
the House adjourned at THREE O'CLOCK.