The Sun.
London, England, 1819-12-11 00:00:00

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'cut. it it acted jttstly, to pursue. Either let the
Attorney-Genei-al he ordered to prosecute all such
P,!'hlications, or let the Bills to put down the se-
'itions press, he passed. But let not the two
'lleastares he adopted at once. At all events, let
the House only take notice of those libels which
Fete most pointedly directed against itself.—
(Hear, hear, hear !)—As he thought that on such
'l-githject Hon. Members could nor proceed with
thin much consideration, he should move an
41tlendtnei.t.., that Robert Stodart he ordered to
4ftvntl elicit-It:ruse on the .18,11 of Tanuarrnext.
Mr. D i'GLAS KINNAIRD cotifCll,jed, that from
the Only part of the pamphlet which had been
43d, iry satisfactory impression could be timre-
-0,) the House, to enable it to determine whe-
ther it was or was not a libel—(flear, hair!)--
11'' tt as satisfied that any one who had read the
'vl'oie would come to any conclusion but that it
belt{ out awincitetnent to use brute force against
the. Noose The wot k only contended, that it
as,tiot the love of the people, hut the tear of
lite laws, that induced them to submit ; and this
ibight surely be said even of any law without any
'1 11citr.,lity.
Lord NUGFNT gave his hearty concurrence to
th.e Original motion—(Hear, hear !)—He agreed
'till) his Honourable Friends in disapproving the
Nrduct of Government in neglecting to order the
Attorney-General to prosecute libels perhaps still
more atrocious than the present. But that was
40 reason why he should not defend the privilege
t't the House when he saw them so violently as-
'Cled--(Hear, hear!)--He should not presume to
V; as far as an Hon. Gent. last night, and to 4t-
tribute the pamphlet before the House to any pat
.but it contained elitlcnces of
`,tYle which shovved that from his acquirements
btie author must be a victim worthy to be struck at
y the House. The Hon. Baronet, he would call
imin his Honourable Ft tend. had taken a wrong
ievr of the snhjt Ct. He ilad treated the motion
41 if it was not one for calling the Pnhlifber to
Mlle liar of the House, but for committing him ax
tice. Neither had the Honourable and Learned
Imoveroposed that the House should decide in
'ls ownrp case. He supposvil that after ascertain-
what would fall from the publisher, that Hon,
itstid Lea; tics! Member would recommend that the
*6OJe be laid before the Tribunals of the Conn
try On the' privileges'of the Hntise _depended
114 t
l• only the integrity and existence-of the House,
ot the rights and liberties ,of the People. :He
oew that the course which. he was taking would
expose him to great obloquy, tritt Members who
*ere not prepared to encounter obloquy in a just
were not fit to hold the lists which they
!)—So long as they sat in that
liatise, they must, support Themselves as.the Re:
Presentatives of the Pe,!ple of Hogland—..(tier
Mr. COURTi:NAY was understobil to.stite in ex.
;migration, that. his .sole:objec!Lat,. present was to
cult the Publisher to 'tare Bar. He could not
;ledge himself afterwards to any particular line of
stouthket

Mr. XVILBEUFORCE declared, that 'he never
trill words' convey a grosser attack against the
alotile than those which bad been quoted, nor-
Ns he ever inure astortislied than to tear an Hon.
Member (Sir F. Burdett) express his doubt whe.
liter it was a libel or not. Every thing• depend-
onlke [elms in which an opinion Was ex-'
Pressed and the tendency it had to disturb the or•
der of society. lie knew of nothing more likely
° Persuade and to induce people to carry their
;tilts further,' than for the House to express itselt
~.'ghtly On a question of his kind. By doiog so, it
'Nitta betray a shameful weakness. 'Whatever the
kiritle of proceeding might be, it was impossible
t
I.°i* the House to pass this over. However, he
t'!'lught the best mode of proceeding would be, to
411 on the Attorney-General to prosecute. It was
11(.4 correct to impute to the House of Commons
ttlY 3,10 principles or motives as those which
.7're freytently thrown our in that House; but
;viten such gloss insults as these were thrown out,
II Was impossible to pass' thearover• without no.
tee• As to the assertion, that the context of this
I."%sage would have given a different interpreta.
'sn to the pamphlet, no context had been read,
nr any explanation given to the House respect-
-1114 any

M. KINNAIRD explained why he had not
mad the context : it was-, he did not think the
4fouse would ',troth halt to read the pamphlet,
"'e Whole of which would show that the part
t.°lnplained of was only an incidental paragraph
4 controversy i f another oolitic.
1,51 r. Hum a rose amid general cries of Question!
le thought the course proposed to be adopted
o)Proper ; hut not being allowed to express his
inions, sat down.
Mr. W. WYNN contended that there never was
lore gross attack on that House, or a more
V4ring excitement to the people to destroy that
cruse, than the passage which bad been read;
he must combat the argument of the Hon.
4-)aronet respvctini; the privileges of that House,
17'llieb were well defined, and had always been act-
:4 "Pfm. A doubt had been started whether the
4°"texl might not do away the effect of the pas-
ge in question; he had read the whole of the
18rltphlets, and so far front finding the context
be such as was stated, there were utility pas-
etts nearly as objectionable as that which had
lteett quoted. Let the House form their judgment
oth the following extract :
' 1,9:1 My determination, for one, is fixed ; if those
have the power attempt to deprive me of the
:lie:table right of meeting my Idiom-country-
",, by letting loose a soldier at me, without the
ifarniog of an Act of Parliament, I will resist him
Alan ; they give te warnin
"c( 4. Parliamentdo, will breakh i if I can "of an

jt He would put it then to the House, whether
Lot hound to vindicate its own authority,
11 litat of di inferior Courts of Justice, against
44rh
libels
.as these. It was impossible for
\,,u", With their common senses about them,
-th.tloubt the object of this pamphlet. As to
„Ite Proposal that the Attorney-General should
A'stcute, he maintained, that he House
ip'krued its own atithotity,:if it yielded its power
its privileges to fitly other authority.
•pt "t- House bud au
.tindoubted right to issue its
'f3c"s, like all inferior Courts of Justice. Some
4i1;1,1 recommend the passing this over with con-
kt/illt• suppose it were said of the Court. of
thaieb, daily publications, that no pis-

rice couhl be ohhtiord-there,- be-would nsk, w he-
aer•that high "tribunal could submit to such et
tacks, without losing'its chai'acter and weakening
its dothority and power with the public. The
situation in life and rank- of the person supposed
to have written this libel, was another reason.
why he should he proSeetned, It was under an
impresiion of .that kind, that the noose thought
it necessary some years ago to order a prosecu-
tion ageiust a 47,etpleman of the name of Reeves,
who held a high situation under Government, tor
a pamphlet ht had \critter,.

Atter an explanation from Lnrd NUGENT, the
Amendment was put and negatived. The original
motion, that Robert Stodart be ordered to attend
at the liar of the House on Monday next, vt-1,
then put and cart ied. The Noes seemed confined
to two or three voices.

SEIZURE OF ARMS BILL.
Lord CAsTt FMEAGH wo►:ed the second reading
of the Seizure of Arms Bill.

Mr. TutiNEy observed, that, under other cir-
cumstances, lie should have felt desirous of a post-
ponement of this- measure''; hu, as delay might
be inconvenient, and as the na.ure of the Bill was
both Liral and temporary, he d;d no! mean to
make any objections to its principle Some of the
details, he thought, tegnirett considerable altera-
tion ; but as the Comuuttee would be ihe proper
occasion for proposing theta, should there be any
More general difference of opinion, it might he
convenient to take the consideration of it on the
third reading. One provision ,0 which he sh:odd
certainly object, was Om eua:ding a single Md-
gistrate and Constable to enter hott,cs and search
for arms by niehr.

BENN ST a,ked if the county of Northutn-
berland was to he inchide.l 'xi:l,in the Act, as he
understood ntrtect tranquillity prevailed there
muswer was

Mr LAMBTON he4ged to ask the Noble Lord
whether d COM municqpo9 had hot been received
from one of :be DE:put v-Lie.iteuant% of the Coun-
ty of Durham, d,sorihing a large district of that
coun,N pert,.wly tiut;isturbed
Lord CASTLEREAGH read the communication
alluded to, a,-,d observe that it did not vary from
preceding aecnuirs, which represented the district
in que:Hon state ot tomult, but as in
a state likely to lead to tumult.

Mr. J. ‘AillaaToN declared [hat his information
was of the most alarming kind. A system of
commuoicatiOn hair been established throtighout
extensive districts in Durham and Yorkshire. anti
the virit, of disalfeo ion was o, the point of ex•
itself in arcard farce. 'l.w colliers and
pit-men were thoronglily organized, and assembled
every day in parrie% of 20, their leaders a,sembling
every. week. A fetter which he had received from
a gentleman in that part of the coon, y, and out
easPy alarmed, stated, the without sAnte com-
manding military force, there was an end to all
security--that ;pots ,rere provided, and the liod, d
propel ty already parcelled out.—(A laugh)—An
kitmonr4ble Member opposite (Mr.. Latnbton)
might be more interested than he was aware ot,
and if he knew the source of this information
as well as he (Mr. Wharton) did, would come to
the same judgmilit. At' many of these meetings
Reform was, indeed, the professed object, hut not
any Reform of that House*. even upon the wild
scheme of Universal Suff, age*. The Reform con-
templated, anti for which they seemed to enter-
tain 'an er“busiastic desire, was a transfer of pro-
perty from those who now enjoyed it to those
who did not.

Mr. LAMBTON said, if the subject were not of
a disagreeable natr►re, he sho,ild have been much
amused with the observations of the Learned
(Jentlernan. It was singular, that the Learned
Gentleman, Who derived all his it►tormatinn from
others, should think that 1, liad the means of to; m-
ing a more.correct judgment than ot het s who haul
resided iu the midst of all this supposed agitation.
With regard to the disposition of the pit-men ,he had
the ant4iority of a considerable number or proprie-
tors of coal-mines, after a meeting to consider this
subject, and they almost unanimously represented
(fiat the men had no aims, that they were in 101 l
employment, and that, though classed, they, %I-ere
quite peaceable. Ile would here explain what
was meant by classing. It was usual for these
poor people to meet to the number of 20, in dif-
ferent parties, in order to read, or hear read,
publications in favour of Parliamentary Reform.
lie believed this to be their sole purpose, and
finless this could be shewn to he synonymous
with an attempt to subvert the Constitution, l►e
WAS not diSpOSeil to entertain any apprehension,.
though he believed his property would hardly
come under the operation of an agrarian law.—
There was no reason, therefore, as he conceived,
for extending this measure to that part of the
country.

Lord MILTON was surprised at what had fallen
from the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wharton), rela-
tive to any communication existing between the
colliers of the county of Durham and the tVest
hiding of York. fie believed the latter, ataj he
had extensive means of judging, were perteedy
loyal, and peaceably disposed. It gave him great
regret to find a bill of this kind proposed to be
continued for two of three years.
A long and desultory conversation -then took
place on the same subject. between Mr. Clive,
Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Brougham, Mr.Latubton,
and Sir C. Monck.

The Bill was then read a second time, and or-
det ed to be committed on Monday.

TRAINING PREVXNTION BILL.

A Message flow the Lords announced that their
Lordships had agreed to the Amendments made by
the Commons to this Bill.
SEDITIOUS AND BLASPHEMOUS LIBELS.

A Message from the House of Lords announced,
that their Lordships bad passed a Bill for the more
effectual prevention and punishment of Seditious
and Blasphemous Libels, to which they request-
ed the concurrence of the Commons.
On the motion of Lord CASTLEREAGH, the Bill
was read a first time, and ordered to be read a se-
cond time on Monday, and to he printed.