The Sun.
London, England, 1817-02-18 00:00:00

beneficial, b, Irould take the liberty of reniit'A.
lug them. of the Worthrof the Ilott. Had Learned
Gentleman, that they,wete only beginning,:. and
of resisting them on that groun4.-:
Sir F. boatel-If-iv a'.iitciuceji trO•linpe, 'clni;tfew
Mernhers in the House' would 'fie ready to go, in
-their:repposititur-to all species of reform, the same
unjustifiable length as. the. lion, Gentle:Man had
said he would go. .'Was there any thing so shrill-
inf:= in what had follen,,from his Hon. 'and Learned
Friend had -advised Reformers tti try .an
experiment at douse could be
made to exercise a sufficient commit over the
Government; and if it could, to remain satisfied
with the attainment of that :object. lie was of
the same opinion, if the first step produced the
desired offeet, Alley- were, not hound,' neither was
it fair to Statt!, that they wished to 'carry things.
farther; H-4i was convinced, that if the house
wei* do regulated,, as' effectually to protect ;the
Public purse against the prodigality of Ministers,
,the great billk:tt.theoition would be satisfied.-7.
It was really curious to tea 'Gent lehie n so, frighten:.
cd-blithe idea ofinroads,upon the Constitution of
the 'Country, sitting behind poisons .who had.
made the greatest:; inroads ever known in: that
Constitutiona—who had bought up the It IA Parlia,
merit--(Hear, baser l)--rant} this W4S tick a mere
MIN ; it bad been' offered, to be :proved at the
Bar of that'Houseby the Speaker of that Paha-
Ment—who had'brought over one hundred Mem-
bers and incorporated them, with the English
House of :Cchumons, Anti had effected sacitial-
mense alterations end inroads ! He did not enter
into the merits of those measures, but it was
strange that the Hon. Gentleman who heal sop- '
ported them should eonsiderany proposal for the
most moderate Reform, as replete with danger,
and throwing a blot on the Constitution. As to
the regulation oithe right of voting according to
direct taXatitia; he conceived, that notwithstand.
ing.the outcry' for universal suffrage, suciva men.

ire -would nice!. nil wishes 'and witver every et)

lie then recommended union and -on:knitility to the
llnn. Members' Who considered 'Reform neces-
bary. blained'Ofeit giving way! to animosities
together', instead of acting against the great grieve ":
ante of the country., anti their wasting' their. force
in acrimonious disputes 'a warmth Of language,.
and imputations equally void .cif •
I%lr. BRAND contended, that It was unfair,' to
Say, that because ReforMers wialted to- have a 'be-
ginning it was to lead to any thing misebievons or
revolutionary.—(llaar, hear protested
Against such insinuations. Fie agreed With- his
Friend, the Hon. Baronet,' in, regretting the- dif-
ferences which had firisen.hetween.the supporters
6f Parliamentary Reform, and he disapproved still
more of those who professed an attachment to;
the cause and held out chimerical SysteMs to di.
vet t the • atterttioa. of the, people from -the- right'
object, and retard its; attainment. AThwete
ac-
gnainted with the bottom' and lori of.
his Learned Friend, • who 'had effeetaalltreeelletl.
the attack ,unnecessarily intrininced and .nnjustly
levelled at -him. He'hoped 'that' the-Noble-LOC&
would abstain from such attacks against 'those.
who had the same objects in view which-the Noble
Lord professed to support
. , made a few nbierVationt, Which
the noise in the House and, gallery at -the dine'
rendered-inaudible. • • •

• Lord Etc Havtit,Tot; alluded to .the condtict
,f lie 1100, Gentleman (Mr. J.W. Wart!) iar. tortner
times, When be wax 4a friend to Heloun anti a
• supPortee Of Mr. nix.
. ,
•
Mr. J. W. WAtto• explained, that t ven is hikt
sitting on the -same .side with the Noble 'l4OO, be
had, at the' OA bf the great majority of
his friends, pronounced his opiniutr against Re-
form. as hirtly as how.
Lord A. 11 A hri 1.1'6N explained. „
nr. CANNING thought that it was natural for
the friends of Reform to give e truest recrimmen-
.diffions that the poor Reformers should not
rinarrel with:each' other till 'they lad extoped from
the klinise•what now existed, in the hopes of ob-
taining that which they did not even know where
of sentiments
tO-fifitl. Not less' than i shades
beett displayed on the subject of Reform that
and the-Honourable Baronet, who• formed
about the fifth,bad advised.his friends not to open
their Irtherdashery wires on this occasion. He,
nit thi:ctititrary,• entreated every Gentleman who
bad a pocket plan of,, Parliamentary Reform, to
produce it; that the Honore Might compare' them
together. fle•had no dot bchtit when there•were
many varieties, no man Would he sufficiently
'fool:Wray as to stick' fast by the House, and pre,
elude himself,Wtot those•beautilui specimens. Ile
sliCuld'olfer no 'opinion req)ecting the ditiereirec
• which he had taken place bUtmeen the
Noble Lard and the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman, but be 1)414E rtinfeloo, that with re-
gard- t`i, Parliamentary • Reform, rite Noble; Lord,
had been baldly "fused.'!'bough his system,',woithl•lie t'uiu, •
dostructinn, and --iktboiatioa. :to. the-
' cbUttiry; 'et that.' Was right according to
his .(th'e ohle tord's)..views- of the suhjuctt
When it' Was: 'discussed' what, the [louse would •
have to gain, •it vitasfinul•to .he a grearettditional
strength in the approbation of: comotyv.
.thYflooked at th'e nomber'of.petitions•slithsignoi.
fares- Which cattle before' the florist, it woultl•le
seen'that, yeCOrdiiigrt tlieNoble-Lord, the great
nhijvirity. was' !Or/Wm:al Parliaments' an 4, Univet-
Sal Sutyr:tge. Ilk they were brow.btaten by
those :Oety Gentlemen wit() accused that side of the
Houle of 'brow,.;beatiGg PetitiOnera..
tiofi ()Hite system to which,heinstlellotled, would,
lie was conyinerd, roc only'beattentled by the
fain of the House, but by the total. subversion of
the Conslitution. Stiek conservithees flowed ;by
direct deduction from those and there-
Me he thought it' necessary to oppose- gat its, very'
first' begioniug; -What'was' to end in rtiin. „The'
House and the'country. Were much oblifott. to his,
Friend for not 'allowing' the- observation of
the tion..and Lettrned Pentlemart,io passLimno-
deed. Te yield the least footing; would. be
titifnit principle, that the House,• as it.stOod,.
was not .an adequate representation of the people,
Be contended that' it was, as much -as ever; lend;
been or couldbe. Letthe..House theditatiron thv:
slat;or seven plans of Reform wii;olkhail bet:lli/tiers
cd, and let it beware. .if it took nsingle step; it
would give way, not to a definite system of alters-
tious, but it would fall from
tho dpar,

deep e and from the lower to the low: st deep, into
blaseet of inextricable confusion.--(,Hear, hear 1)
:Mr. 'l`r ONS.? said, that on .his conscience 'he
did ootethink Parliament served all the interests
tif the piople to
,as grass art extent as it 'might.
Hie.eeiteoleject Wee to make thi lloitie grathialfy
and.practically, a true representative of the inte-
rests of the people. Beyond that he Would not
stir. The Right Hon. Geetleman was certainly
the only matt in his Majesty's dominions who
thought that no good conid be produced by any
pint: of. Reform.' it - was natural to, feel elainteat.
some ot those which bad been suggested ...; lint if.
the Right Hon. Gentleman irtid no species of Re
form whatever could yield advantage; be thought
he shoeld never thud a seconder. As to annual`
Parliarnents and universal suffrage,, he had heard
.the eloquence used towards, the Noble Lord 'to
`induce him" to withdraw his support from them;
but. what could speak more eloquently to,the Noble
Lord than what had taken place that night, when
be heard, the. Right lion. Qemlemee, (he avowed
-enemy of, Reform,' call upon him to go on ? If,
after that, the Noble. Lord peesisted in his course,'
he must cease to believe that he was acting•-fter
the good of the people,; and consider that, instead
of serving the cause of Reform,. he was playing
into the hands of the Gentleman opposite.J—
(Heat, hen!' !)---The Right Hon. Gentlemen hid
mentioned with mincer the wish expreseed that the
. friends of reform should make up their differences.
Pie he mean to say that he had got a' monopoly
of making up differences.? How. had he, end
those abbot him,he would inquire, made up their
differences ? It they had done that, he thought
no plan too extravagant not to he .effected. Great
slant had here expressed,. that if anything was
resolved, God alone could know: where it would
end. That the door once set open, everything would
rush through it. But it: anether instance, he did
not find, that to have been tee case. He het
heard it said, that of all the' most tnischlieoes
men in the country, ,Lord Camden was theetnost
mischievous. Ile -had opened a door, but he didl.
not` see that it leil beyonde---(Heae, heat !)-;elee
fact, the Noble Lord opposite (CaStleretegli) had
stopped the whole short. He had given no ens'
courage:tient to 'follow the Prinee Regent's• exe:
ample kle,.had quickly dissipated the elerin while!:
had prevailed amongst: theeholders of sinecures,
etre caused them to. rest perfectly satisfied with'
what had been done. As m auotherHi,n. Friend,
'he could not 'say What . his scntituents might be
respecting other kinds thaieParliamentarylteforin;
for lie had been Chairman of: a Sinecure Come
mittee, and hail gone so far, as' to. stay, that 67'0'
Paymasters were not necessary to receive One sae'
Line Was be not afraid of haviogcoitirnittedii
great inroad on the Constitution by expressing
such sentiments ?..e--(Hear, hear !) .••
Mr. Lerretteoer defended his Hon. and Learn,
led Friend (Mr. Brougham) trone•the attaeks,of a
'Noble Lord -(Coehranp), He eonsideredthat the.
Worst ettemies ot Reform, wt reethose tier:lege rine
eons itutional innovators, whose -advocate the
jNo . e Leril (Cochrane) was .ite tellottse, and
le ii. setodder the, Ifight' HAM. Giu tleat an opposite
(Mr. Canning.) .
' Lord Cocieuetee aesetred the Iliitise that had
the Hon, and Learned 'Menthee c"onlined'himeell
to reprove his coeduct, he should have remained
silent. But he had felt himself obliged to come
-forward: when improper 'imputations had 'be'en
tineWn on.those whose conduct he believed to be
bonne:Wile, and they had been. represented as de-
teiverse •or deceived. He .did 'not ' blame 'him
'for thebpinions which he might ...have once enter-
tained, and those he might now express in an
altered' tone, but he thought that his aspersions
ought at least to have been less severe. No.
thing personal hatl'in any:degree originated, with
himself. He had theoWn. "en imputation on an 7
one. He had stated, his opinion, that triennial'
Parliaments would do no• good, that seats weiiihr
be sold, and underities ehtaieetrie that Neese, as
they now were. Antrhe had 'the authority 'id
'the Learned tieetlemen himself for asserting that
imete•good was effected during the liet veer of a
Parliament than in any .of. the preeedfleg ones ;
that it coenterbalanced all the evils of the other's,
and that the cause of that difference Wes' the:ape •
peal
,which the Membefe'fili they Mutt soone make
to their constituents' -Whin' the great epiestian .'
of l'erliementary Reform should be •diseussetle-he
trusted that it, would he with open doors, that tits
country might be' made acquainted with all the
debates in that House.--(Uhler; order !)--He
meant' that 'the counter shortie -be, 'enabled to' este
certain that her ieterests-hed been hilly and Wilt
discussed.- . . .. . . . ,
- Mre Baononsfe , did not understand what' tote''
Noble Lorermeant by an altered tone. lie de-
nied having altered 'otlowered his tone, .either
With regard' to the Auestion • itself, to the.Neble
Lord, or to his abettors elsewhere. ..He. could
not refrain', however„ ,froM alftedireg,to one tOpiC,
Which,elle Noble Lord-hed introdeeed., :IL 'hid
spoken of a certein influence, not thistof the Cro tene
,
not that arising frgal the instructiont•of constitue
cpt.s, but one which was unknown.Withill 01.C.Wailli
of ~that House. He had 'seemed to refer, toThe
intimidation of that Hietese itself by-the write...es
Warm as be was in time causeeof Parliamentary
Reform, be held that it must.be Asopportedely
other means than by intimidation, and if he fiend
one single word more from. the Noble Lord itieost
the subject, he shoeld.he one'ot thee first tojoise:
either in postponing the discussion ofebequeetion
afire die, or in taking all. the means:which Cooley
be used to prevent 'the exercise .cit't4 ii'lfittepepkt
,which the Noble Lord hod al luded..!--(Heeillsea44)e
. ,)f
`Lord COCDRANB having exlilaitted, theltiffeitiri
was received, and orderedlolie on•the tit/stele:a
Mr. Cuenca presented an' ACcOunt of the s'a-
laries of' the,Secretaries of theAshniealee for he
last year, and a statement of may leciiase muds
ti.t them on account of the' late War against the
bey, of.Algiers.—Ordered to `lie-on. the table, • '

AGRICULTURAL plsTilzss.
Mr. DicIpNSON ptetented a petition from
owneri. of WO in Somersetsitire and Gtoeester
shire, wlirCit stated that the curio-hill Bird 'not
atiottred sniiicient protection to the itgriettittit
itnereitt and cOmplginetrof the Forge itnionts of
foreign corn and other articles, of the inability of
land-occupiers to - thei

pay

r reittv