The Sun.
London, England, 1821-04-18 00:00:00

which establiihed the purest system of Christian
faith, but had to the utmost possible' degree suc-
ceeded in securing the religious and 'civil liberty
Q€ those who dissent from it, whether Catholic or
Piotestant Dissenters; and now he mentioned
the Protestant Dissenters, he should observe, that
the framers of the present Bill seemed to have
forgotten them altogether,—(Hear !)—and to
hive overlooked the fact that so many great
Statesmen. had.thought
,itnecessary to defend the
ChfirA against them, by ,refusing to -repeat the
Tilt- and Corporation Acts. But they were told
~in this they 'were lift wrong,- atid...tliat they
sti)i-tdr• •let the, Ohttrch ,Establishment take its
eb4Ce. He wan of :v. different opiniOn ; .if he
weir at 'the. !wit irirfrnent of his life he shOuld as-
ser:t,•that an established reliiion,Was the greatest
befit to a people, not. to make-the Church poli-
ti.r.4l-, but to naqiie'the State religiiras. ;—(Hear !)
—and he was firmly convinced that the interests
of re'igiota would,be better 'Consulted by SaYing,
6a: there should be ait religion established,
la-lee an enlightened, toleration, than by saying
:hire should be no es'tablishment ; for he believed
that- in the preseot state of society. the existence
of an 'establishment was the best way of. promot-
11g the religious an 4 civil interests of every man
in.the country.—(Hear !)-He could not agree
that -the mode in which the discussion had pro-
.cekded had liro6ght them to the true question in
this:r,ase. ; he .would not go into those early scenes
of -the history_ of this country before the Refor-
Motion, when -there were a Popish King and Po-
piSh Houses of . Legislature acknowledging the
authority of the Pope. But the House would go
along with him in saying, that never were there
Pretensions so unfounded as those set up by the
Pope., and even as those which were acceded to;
'and he would also do justice by •admitting, that
never was the love cf liberty more strongly dis-
played than in those struggles with the Pope. But
that was not the period to look to; for, till the
period of the Reformation, the question of foreign
influence was never looked at in the same point
of view or with the same interest as now. He
.wished their Lordships woold read the various
• statutes respecting the King's supremacy, passed
in the reign of Henry VIII. But he could not
pass the earlier times of our history without pay-
ing a tribute to those great men, who defended,
bat did not lay the foundations of English liberty,
which were laid at a much earlier period ; for
the Church of England having lived in this
• country before the Church of Rome was brought
in. - What the supremacy approved by the Pope
in. this country bad been he could only know
frCrn the statutes of the country. If they read
ths.-.l.st Philip and Mary, c. 8, they would see
what supremacy at that time of day was. There
ceald be nothing more humiliating, there could
nOt be a more debased and degraded record re-
specting a nation, than that absolute submission
'• of all the States of this Realm to a Foreign Pre-
te. lie begged their Lordships to read it ; he
hardly knew a man who had read it. No man
who would read it would fail to arise alive and
: trembling, lest they should open again the door
to that lion which had so nearly devoured us.—
Those who framed the present Bill seemed not
. to know that there were common law oaths as
well as statute oaths. But lawyers would tell
them that the old Oath of Allegiance was the
sarrie as the modern Oath of Supremacy. Allegi-
ance, according to the common law, was un-
divided allegiance. Lord Hale said, that the
Oath of Supremacy had become absolutely
zretessary to inform the people that they
could not have a civil allegiance distinct
from' ecclesiastical or spiritual allegiance. It
was introduced to " unrivet" (that was his ex-
preasion). those errors which had crept into the
it iods of the subject, and to explain in what man-
- non he pledged himself to the Crovvn, as the head
of the civil and spiritual state of the country.
The Bill , before them appeared to him (the
Lard .Chancellor) to be framed with the ex-
. tress purpose of undoing what the Oath of Su-
premacy. meant to ,effect. The greatest men,
Seldon, Clarendon, Locke., • and Lord Somers,
had•not hated Popery on account of its religi-
oos tenets, but on account of its tendency to in-
trodace:slavery and subjection to a foreign power:
Mr- Locke, indeed, had said, that because the
Catholics acicnOwledged foreign authority, they
cpuid not. lie. at 'all tolerated in a State.—The
Rev. Ereiate (the Bishop of Norwich) shook
head—:.-.he (the LOrd Chancellor) could shake,
laugh !)--He thought Mr.
LOcite &gone too:far•—Lthat he had lost on that
bceashin thi.aumin Understanding. When the
:Reformation bad made some progress, Queen Eli-
forifi:i an admonition to her subjects,
.s*.h KHz. .his utter astonishment', he
(th.e.lord.G.).had seenit-deolared, that this ad-
motaitipoov.as tan exPbsitiOri of what the Oath of
S.;.iptc4na.cy, sni.,ant.: would go the length of
, Sayieg, . the ind4id4t'a.l...w ho waS..theti
aildressin; their. Lordships, or those who passed
that Resolution as to .Queen s'a.dmoni-
nOtsfinoW.the meaning of common lan-
was evidetlt, to him that.it had nothing
in,tl.s4l ,world to do with. the Oath' of Supremacy.
said.by;the advocates of the' jiiesent bill,
that .the Protestant_ gistablishrrient was secured in.
the,frst:pl4ce by .the acts of William anti' Mary ;
in the- secAiid piece by the Union with Scotland;
• and thlrdli,. and 'post 'effectually, by the Union
.With-.trelani: He was ready to. agree to all this
perinitted the means to, remain by which
thr: establislitnent.w.as secured. They had heard
_:..other places, of paper and parchment-eonstitu-
, .ti.one,.but what was the Act Of Settlement but a
,papersconstittation, if they 'took away the means
,o3i its provisions were effected ? It was
io..the bill, that the Catholics were ready to
abjure all allegiance except what 'referred to re-
ligious Then, why, he asked, was not the
oath, framed accordingly ?: He begged any one
• ••
• .tcr• re,acl. that oath, and to ask whether it was not
- • left entirely to the mind of the person who look
-.tine.. oath, to say what was matter of belief or not?
:V.e.was willing to give credit to the Catholics for
atore...Jaonottr
.and integrity than the present bill
attributed to;thern. But why was the person who
• belonged toflie ChurchVEndand togive greater
:piedges:fOr the security of the chtii:ch than the Ca-
tholics? We, the Protestants, were to give the
Cape no authority at all, the Catholics were to

except matters of belief, with no definition of
what they considered matters of belief. It was
not Titus Oates, or the Popish plots (which they
were continually latighing at and giving thanks
for), that induced 'King William to pass the
Acts respecting the Catholics'; but he plainly de-
clared, that it was necessary that a Protestant
King should have a Protestant Government (the
Declaration against Transubstantiation had been
taken not twelve months ago by the King on the
Throne). It was not thought enough that the
King. should be Protestant alone, but that the
Legislature and all the Officers•of State should
be Protestants. All ihese enactments were ex-

pressly declared'to be not only essential but fun-
damental, and as far as that Legislature could
make them, perpetual. Though he acknow-
ledged.that the Legislature of to-day could not,
bind the Legislature of to-morrow, yet this was
undoubtedly the strongest way in which they
could express an opinion, that the system was
not only essential but exclusive. It was necessary
to remember, that they could not pass this Bill of
Conciliation [so called, he supposed, from set-
ting together all parties by the ears:l—(A laugh),
unless they would to-morrow repeal the Test and
Corporation Acts. They must take this system
of Legislation altogether in opposition to the
Bill of Rights and the Act of Settlement, which
declared, that the person who wore the Crown
should be Protestant, and that he should be sur-
rounded by Protestant Ministers and Officers.—
The Noble and Learned Lord referred to the
13th, 14th, and 33d of the late King, and the
oaths imposed under them; he desired to know
what circumstances had happened since 1793, to

induce them to dispense with all the oaths which
were then thought necessary ? It was worthy of
consideration, too, how, under the present Bill,
they intended to protect this country from that
public exercise of the Catholic religion, which
could not be permitted without disturbing the
harmony of the people. In the first Bill, a march
was stolen upon the Protestants by calling the
Catholics " his Majesty's Roman Catholic sub-
jects." He could not call them by any other title
than that which was given to them in former Acts,
" his Majesty's subjects professing the Roman Ca-
tholic religion." By the Bill before them, the Ca-
tholic Church was recognised in every part of the
kingdom. Were we to have Catholic Archbishops
of Canterbury and York, Bishops, Deans, and Col-
legiate Bodies? Was every part of this country
to see that species of Catholic establishment,
which if net now a misdemeanour, only failed of
being so under a forced construction of recent
statutes ? They should act, if at all, fairly and
with manliness, and if they wished to allow this
open display of the Catholic religion, they should
avow it and acknowledge their error.—(Hear !)
—He now wished to consider the Bill as a mea-
sure of conciliation, and he would ask, whether
they had heard any thing from Ireland within
the last seven or eight days, which could lead
them to suppose that it would be accepted by the
Catholics as a boon ?—(Hear !)—But, oh ! we
were not to mind the Catholics. We were

to bring in a Bill to conciliate the hearts and
minds of all classes of the community, but we
were not to care whether the Protestants would
grant it, or the Catholics receive it—but conci-
liated they must be. This put him in mind of
a story he had heard of a person in the High-
lands, who was seen driven along by a fellow
with a cat-o'-nine-tails. A passenger naturally
asked the driver what he ivas doing with the
man who was driven ? " Oh," said he, " I .am
going to make a volunteer o him."—kA laugh !)
This was the nature of this forced conciliation.
Under the Bill, he was.to have no choice of his
religion, nor the Chancellor, nor the Lord Lieu-
tenant and Chancellor of Ireland. But yet
Roman Catholics were allowed to be Judges.
This was one of the most monstrous proposi-
tions he could conceive, for if they allowed
persons without the qualifications to hold
those offices, it was a call upon all persons of
that religion to point at the Throne as the cause
of their exclusion. It was curious too, that
this Bill allowed the King's Councillors. to
be Catholics, but required that the Chancellor
should be not a Catholic. The Privy Councillor
was forbidden by this Bill from giving advice on
Ecclesiastical matters; and
.he was made the judge
of what was Ecclesiastical, or not. But the oath
of the Privy Councillor was to advise his Sove-
reign in all matters without distinction. It was
said, however, that the Legislature which im-
posed that oath, could unmake it. So that the
Privy Councillor would say, "True, I have. sworn
.to-day that I will give my Sovereign advice in
all-matters, but there was an Act of Parliament
Made yesterday to say, I. shall 'not." By the
Bill too the - Ecclesiastical Judges were to be
Protestants, but in Westminster. Hall the Judges
might be.Ca.tholics. Now any one who knew
the nature .of our laws. would know,- that our
temphral and,Ecclesiastioal Laws were so bound
tip together, that it was impossible to separate
them.—(Flear!).—lt would of-course happen un-
der this.l3ill that a Pretestant Judge would have
to decide .in Doctors'.Cornrnons, and a Catholic
Judge in Westminster •Hall, on the same ecclesi-
astical.cause.-L-(Hear !)—This,,under..the
.provi-
sions of the Billy, they could.. not, possibly avoid.
As.for the dignity.of King's. counsel, •it was not
an office, 'and -it was to •be remarked, that they
did not take'any oath on being appointed, so that
place, was,perhaps,already more open to them than
was generally supposed. From the year 1688 to
the present time, this country had been governed
by a Protestant King, Protestant
_Peers, and Pro-
testant Commons, who had shpported religious
liberty as it• had. never before been supported.—
He held that no person was punished by being
excluded. from political power.. It was the giv-
i lug' the elective franchise to which in, his con-
science he believed the.present.motion was to.be
attributed. (Hear, hear, hear I)—They were
now to open the doors of Parliament to Catho-
lics, -who were to come there under the King's
summon:7, to consult of the arduous business.of
the English Church-; he felt • that the country
was well now, and he :Would
.not_ hazard the
destruction of its blessings:, What might happen
was the subject of conjeetnre=what had hap,
netted-was the subject or experience. The Noble.
and Learned Lord then alluded to the present

regular establishMent of- the Catholic Clergy in
Ireland; he could acknowledge, he said, a Bishop
or Dean of the Popish persuasion, but he
could not acknowledge a Bishop Or Dean
of the Popish Chiirch in this kingdom.—(Hear,
hear !)—yet, in Ireland, though they existed'
only by sufferance, the Catholic Ctergy had
Synods and Consistorial Assemblies, and inter-
fered in judicial matters. They took on them-
selves,in their Ecclesiastical Courts, to pronounce
sentence of excommunication ; when restitution
of conjugal rights was sued for, they Undertook
to prevent it by the sentence of their Courts.
Was it then to be wondered at, that the Catho-
lic Clergy were unwilling to subject to inspection
the bulls and rescripts from the Pope ? The
Noble Lord concluded in a low tone of voice,
which prevented us from catching the whole of
his sentences below the Bar, by declaring his
conviction, that the Bill endangered the Protes-
tant Establishment, and by expressing his hope,
that the names of Grey, Grenville, Lansdown,
Holland, and Spencer, would not go down to pos-
terity, coupled with a measure injurious to the
religious and civil liberty of the country.
The Bishop of Norwich explained. He ob-
served, that the Learned Lord on the Woolsack
had not quoted Locke fairly. In his 2d and 3d
letter, he maintained the right of universal to-
leration, though he declared, that there were
some doctrines, such as the proposition that
Kings excommunicated by 'the Pope might be
deposed or murdered, which, might fairly exclude
the holders from the'benefit of that toleration.
Lord GUF.NTILLE, in rising to deliver his sen-
timents on this question, said he should not in
all probability have troubled their Lordships
with the expression of his opinion had he not
felt that there was something about this subject
which would prevent his being absent from the
discussion. of it with any satisfaction, or from
giving a silent vote in favour of what he had so
often advocated in that House. His opinion on
this question he fouhd was not to be shaken by
the lapse of time. He knew of no way in which
the Legislature could convey satisfaction and
gratitude, always attendant on a great benefit to
the united people of this Empire, than by giving
a vent to those great principles of political jus-
tice and religious toleration which were involved
in their agreeing to this measure of relief to the
Roman Catholics of Ireland. When he offered
himself to the House as an humble advocate of a
measure of that degree of importance Which no
imagination could exaggerate, and no illiberality,
deny, he ought first to express the joy and thank-
fulness he felt at the altered condition in Which
it appeared before them on the present occasion.
—(Hear, hear!)—The question now for their
consideration was not arising from the suggestion
of the Catholic themselves as to what was best
for them, but a measure for their benefit corning
to that. House with the recommendation of the
other branch of the Legislature, after a long and
mature deliberation, carried on with a temper
and calmness, wisdom and deliberation, which
had given to his mind a degree of satisfaction lie
had seldom before felt 'at the contemplation of
the conduct of the Legislature. The object of
the measure was to relieve a great portion of
their fellow-subjects from' disqualifications to
hold political power in the State. Such a mea-
sure, having such a tendency, and being brought
before them in such a manner, were they to
reject it immediately—were they, as had just
been recommended to them, to refuse to deli-
berate upon the principles of it, which was the
natural course at that stage of a Bill: but
to forestall the business of a future period
of its progress, and go into a minute con-
sideration of the meaning and even the words
of some of its clauses ?—(Hear, hear, hear D--
He did hope that that was not the way in which
a Bill to relieve a great portion of their fellow-
subjects—to admit 4,000,000 of their countrymen
to a full participation in the laws of the empire;
would be treated. He hoped the House was nol
about, by such an act of instant rejection, to de-
clare that, in its opinion,- the subject was not
worth the consideration of the House. There
certainly were cases in which the House might
with propriety exercise its right of refusing to'
enter into the discussion of a subject. But he
was at a loss to discover what arguments zould
be urged upon any principle of wisdom as regard-
ed the relations with the other House, or drawn
from any principle of justice, to refuse to enter
into the consideration of the question then before
them. Even though he admitted with the Noble
and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, that every
one of the clauses of this Bill was faulty, and re-
quired alteration, he could not agree in the con-
clusion he had drawn from that circumstance;
but should, 01 the contrary, arrive at a conclu-
sion directly the reverse. Instead of refusing to
discuss the principle of the Bill on that account ;
he should urge the second reading of it, in order
to arrive at that stage in which they might come
to the consideration aild eMendation of every one'
of those clauses. In coming to tbe consideration
of this subject, it' appeared that there is in this
United Kingdom a difference of religion. He
agreed in all the Noble and Learned Lord on
the Woolsack said as to the inseparable influence
of religious principles on the prosperity and hap-
piness of every nation. Ile agreed with him in
all the panegyric he, had bestowed on the Esta-
blished Episcopal Church of England, which was
the purest in doctrine and the best in disci-
pline over every other-in the world, and of the
necessity of preserving and upholding not only
the faith itself, but also the form of ifs ecclesias-
tical institutions inviolate. He would, however,
venture to say, that if it were possible to unite
the two establishments under one head, the
greatest blessings would result. It was useless
to talk of this; for he asked, did reason,,teach
them to expect it, or did experience entitle
them to indulge the hope of it ? It was
only wasting time which 'ought to be actively
spent in unavailing wishes after an unattainable
object. 'lt was the unhappy policy of this coun-
try to pursue a course of confiscation and
persecution in order to eradicate the Catholic
faith. So car, however, fro.n accomplishing that
end; the means employed had the opposite effect,
as it was' in the nature of things, and contributed
only to root that faith more firmly in the breasts

of its professors. Amongst the opponents of this

measure in favour of the Catholics, there was a

difference of opinion which rendered it difficult
for others to know which way to steer their
course amidst such contending currents. They

had but one duty to perform, and yet the propo-
sitions of the adherents in opposition to their
Bill were directly the reverse of each other.
The Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack

said, it was their duty to leave matters as they
regarded the Catholic's, in the state they were
placed in by King William at the Revolution,
without making one iota of change or alteration.
The other part of their opponents said" leave

matters 'as -they are now, there is no cause to
change." Now, which of these two courses did
the House mean to follow ? He believed there
was no one who did not know that the funda-

mental principles of the state of things at present
was diametrically opposite to what they were at
the time of the Revolution. Of the two propo-
sitions, he certainly felt best able to reconcile
himself to the approbation of that which recom-
mended them to adopt the principles of the Revo-
lution on this subject. They had all heard in de-
tail the horrors of the system pursued at that time.

They .were told by Lord Clare_ that the lands

of the Catholics were confiscated 700,000 acres
more than covered the soil of that kingdom.
By that meaning to say, that some of the land
had been- confiscated two and three times over.
lie did not seek to rake up the ashes of past dis-
cords, but merely to justify the cruelties on one
hand, which were 'called for by the cruelties of
the other ; for it was one black characteristic of
the first acts of cruelty that they did not
end with their own guilts, but created
retaliation on the side of the afflicted. lie
should not follow the Noble and Learned Lord

into the detail he had gone into on the laws in-
flicting these cruelties. He was satisfied with
knowing what they were intended to produce,
and happy that nothing remained of them but
that last remnant which they were now called
upon to destroy. Their Lordships knew that
similar predictions and gloomy apprehensions ac-
companied every step towards the removal of
those laws ; but had any one of these predictions
been verified? To give an idea of the spirit in
which these laws were originally adopted towards
the Papists, he would read extracts frogi a work
published at the time of the enactment of some of
the principal of them. It ran as follows :—" We

look: on the Papists to be altogether as inconsi-
derable as women and children ; their lands are
almost entirely taken away from them—the de-
scendants of the hereditary proprietors of the
soil are almost all deprived' of the soil of their
ancestors, and almost bereft /of tile power of ever
acquiring it again. If they ever should possess
the means, the power of ptirchasing- should be
taken from them. By this means the little that
remains to the inhabitants of the soil of this coun-

try will daily crumble away. To prevent their
thus crumbling away, many turned Protestants,
and perhaps many more will." Not only their
property but the faith in which alone they lived
was taken from them ; for as their Priests died
away others were not allowed to supply the place.,
Their Lordships would perhaps be astonished that
such sentiments should ever be printed and publish-
ed; but they would be more surprised when they
heard that it Was the production' of a Rev. Di-
vine. Not only were these sentiments openly
answered, but the system there laid down was
recognised and acted upon. The writer ex-
pressed a hope that this would favour the great
work of conversion, and he thought, under such
a system, the Clergy would succeed in bringing
over great numbers to the Established Church.
This system, it was thought, would he beneficial,
and preferable to one which united them to the
constitution, and 'gave them an interest in the
well-being of the country by affording them the
advantage of being governed under equal laws ;
• depressed as they had been, reduced to. the situa-
tion of hewers of wood anal drawers of water.
When it was argued that they Were placed in a
situation in which they could do no mischief, he
would say that they were So circumstanced that
they could do no good, 1)14 on the contrary, were
likely to do nothing. but mischief. The system
of depressing the Catholics had been acted upon
previously to the Revolution, and for SO years
afterwards, down to that happy period of the late
reign, when it was.thought Wise to adopt a more
liberal and conciliating course. The present sys-
tem was imperfect, and he agreed with an animat-
ed writer on this subject, that that which pre-
ceded, execrable as it was in its purpose, and
detestable in its' means, merited at least the prac-
tice. of being unform, consistent, and well fitted
to the Object which the Legislature, in adopting
it, had in . their view, which was to depress the
Catholics to the lowest state to which the tnem-
bers of any community could be reduced. Some
thought by _repealing several laws that stood in
the black catalogue, the rest might remain,and that
it was only by retaining these that the Protestant
interest could be secured. This was the impression
on the minds of some of those who were opposed
to the presept Bill. He would contend, on the
contrary, that if they . recurred to that system
they must take the whole of -it. It consisted
of a gradual accumulation of laws to depress
those against whom the Measures of the Legis-
lature were. directed. It .would be found that
the first law against the Catholics of King Wil-
liam was followed by other laws in his reign and
in the reigns of Anne, George.l., and George I 1.,
and the Catholics were depressed by accumulat-
ed persecutions, till it was at length discovered
that that was not the course which wisdom'would
pursue, 'and different measures were adopted. The
loyalty of the Catholics had been proved, but if
it was assumed that they were incapable of being
trusted to participate in the blessings of the Con-
stitution, the melancholy conclusion to which that
assumption would lead, was this—that late as it
was to do so, the'Legislature must retrace its
steps, and either expel them from the community
altogether, or depress them as they had formerly
been depressed. A Noble Friend of his, for
the illustration of .his argument, had referred to
one of those tales which formed the delight
Of their childhood, and which he, for ()tie; even
now, could peruse with pleasure ; RIO, letd re-
minded the House of the story which rep_ e'sents

an individual to have removed the seal from a jar
or chest, under which a genius had been confined
from the time of Solomon. The chest opened, a
black tall pillar of smoke, Nfliich ascended from
earth to heaven, had issued, from which, at
length, presented to the view of the individdal,
the Genius, in the form of an enormous
His Noble Friend had inferred; 'that the restric-
tion removed from the Catholics, their religion
would spring up like the Genius from the chest
in, the form of a Giant. -His. Noble Friend was
a little late in the application of this fable. l t
was not now that the chest was to be 'opened, it
had been opened when those immunities and con,
cessions were' granted which the Catholics had.
so long enjoyed. The Spirit had already gene
forth, and had happily become a Giant great in
power, in strength, and in extensive influence,
and possessing the means of doing good or evil
in a most extraordinary degree. 64 'Tis excellent
to have a Giant's power and it was now for
them to consider whether it was likely to be used
tyrannically as a Giant. The question was not
at present whether the Giant should be unloosed.
That had been done in 1788. The seal was re-
meved from the chest the moment the Catholics
of Ireland were lifted from their former state. of
depression to hold the. great and comthalidino-
fluence which now belonged to them. His Noble
Friend ought to pursue the story which he had
brought to their recollection. If he did so, hi.•
.believed that he would find that the inilvidral
who had released the GeniuS,and been punished b
him, had afterwards _the address by some means
to persuade him to diminish himself again, and
re-enter the chest. This was the part which
the House had now to take upon itself. They
were to reduce the Giant---that this they were to
tell the people of Ireland, to give up those commer-
cial and other pursuits in which they have been
encouraged to engage, and in the success of which
the country had long been accustomed to rejoice,
regarding it as one of.the greatest triumphs of the
age. This was the task which the House ought
to take upon itself, if it acted upon the views of
his Noble Friend. There was another alterna-

tive. They might pursue that system of concilia-
tion which had replaced the former. They might
remember that, in the reign of the late King (he
grieved to say it), for the first time since the Re-
volution, a light of surpassing splendour burst on
the Catholics of Ireland. Jt was thought that,
instead of depressing the Catholics, as in former
times, it would be better gradually to re-
lieve them from the disabilities under which

they had laboured. Following up' this plan,
they might continue to conciliate the Ca-
tholics, and by attaching them to the Consti-
tution of their country, render the grant-harm-
oletshse.rs,l3auntd,
binsteadhis
Nobleor this,,a}d La
they
were
rn Friend him-
self, that they. were to. stand where ahoy new
were, as no cause existed jul,tifv vailm"
told by
He could hardly think this :practicable. Wilell
the Bill of 1793 passed, it was necessary . that
some pause should be made before the conces-
sion now proposed should be yielded in favour of
the Catholics. He agreed that a great Change
ought to be gradually made, because it was s
great change, to prepare and reconcile the minds
of men to it. Had he considered -that the Act of
1793 was never under anypossible circumstances
to be departed from, he should have objected. to
it, that it was one of the most Etribilialous And incon-
gruous measures that could hive been adOpteds;
and taking this view of it he could never hit"
agreed to it. -Would any. man say that it ivit S 1/t)
inconvenience to Ireland to have the bigl%°‘
classes of her community degraded and
ed as objects 'Of suspicion and- distrust, as 11
they were less entitled to countenance than Of
they til
were of beingcon dered trusted,
to
other class of . Men.? He wished an end put
such a state of things, and desired to 'see'. concv
liatery measures carrid, that would make,flh
worthy eli
wishe4 to make them 'worthy of being. admitted
to share the blessingi of the Constitution, by
shewitt them that they were thOught to been'
titled to such countenance, The apprell6s"'n:
entertained by his- Noble Friend on the siibjPc
bybe t sbr:stvv= h'gorithhw eyn
. 1
of admitting Roman Catholics to places lit the._
Government he thought groundless. It was 00..`
to' be supposed that any Catholic would be 0,4
vanced to the highest of the situations whichll.4l.;
Bill opened to them, till he ad proved bY
conduct through a long course of years that
was a loyal and well affected man, and calb of
notwithstanding his belief in transtibStantiatiovl,
faithfully discharging all the d"uties of a.l3rit'l
subject. He supported this Bill, not as inTl9l/
101
tion, but as perfecting that great work i 3 W tf
they had been happily engaged I'M: the 'last forildi
years. He now called upon their LordshiPs,the•
agreeina 'to this measure, to wipe out from 14
.Statute-book the last remnant of that 'blot 11're
stain which remained when the Catholics o'esi
concerned, and which mustremain there so I°,
as the present systeM was upheld. The cage
must' ultimately triumph. Whatever might At
the close of. that day's debate, 'it was no livid
matter in. favour 'of the Catholics that it 511°
go forth how much of all that was illustrious ,lit
venerable supported their was 11° lid
matter that it should be known with , what t:dd
their cause had been pleaded. He then pr°,c.e, he
to shew that the Catholic, netvilthstuncl.ence
advanced a claim to pay superior °bean' able
to law, and the revealed• laW of God, was. c.",, robe'
of satisfying human laws by yielding Civil' es
dience toy the Government. But it bad been.. of
lot of the Catholics to be persecuted Lee
to e"'
any opinions which they professed ,to
taro, but for
.those which were imputed to
them by others,' from which those ePP°'eondact
.
them drew the inference that their cv
was likely to incompatible with the 1:05
being of the State in which they resided, .
mode of 'imputing sentiments not entertained, :4:0
drawing conclusions not warranted by facts. ,(l
the great fountain of all persecution, any T_lto
been. so from the beginning of the world
the present day. It had been proved in the
satisfactory manner, that those Who believe
d.. 11
the doctrine of 'transubstantiation, coulds.t:o,
the most full and undivided allegiance tea
trio,
testant Sovereign, without . abandoning'
•
&pies of their religion.' The.. ConutOni of