The Sun.
London, England, 1810-06-06 00:00:00

"PENITENTIARY HOUSES.

Sir S. ROMILLY, on the re-admission of strangers,
was on his legs for the purpose of:, renewing a mo-
tion which he had submitted to the House about a
month since, relative to the e 4 ablishroent of peni-
tentiary houses. Having sated his -sentiments on.
that occasion at large, it would not be necessary for
him to occupy the House at present. with toore than
a few %voids. His objea was to carry into execution
a plan for the recirmation of the criminal law, which
when:first
_proposed, held on, the best.prospea that
ever was devised ; a plan wh ch had been framed by
the wisest men, who had devot d their whole time
to i s fbimation, a plan which was f,unded te on' the
principle of providing for the reform of union unate
conviets; by separating them in .their cor,finemere,
by teaching them habits of industry, and furnishing
them with religious instroetion, whereby they might
be restored to .sbciety, Ul.d enabled to obtain an Ii nest
livehhood for themselves. This Ni a had the ap-
probation of Mr. Justice Blackstone, ,:titio Looked
upon it as likely to supersede in tirne the necessity
of severe punishments by lessening the prevalence
of offences. Yet this plan had remained 30 years;
nearly, on the statute book, and no step had been'
to put it into execution. The.present mode of con-
finement in the ordinary prisons', and' on board the
hulks, had the • effe:q of hardening the prisoner.; in
their guilt, and leading them, by the contagion of
example, to the commission of the most atrocious
crimes, at which they might shedder on'their first
imprisonment. This was the case in all the prisons
olEngland, with a few honourable exceptions, and
pre-eminently so in theit prison in the metrbpolis,
which was more immediately under the notice of the
public. That prison situated not far from the mo-
nument erected to the benevolent Howard, was a
reproach to. the country. The Hon. Gentleman
enumerated the evils resulting fiom the confinement,
:promiscuously, of persons of different ages and de-
grees 'of guilt; iu the prisons and hulks, whereby
the less criminal and experienced were tutored into
the c6mtnission of more hellions crimes, of which
they were before innocent. He had never said that
transportation should be altogether abolished : but
he thought it cruel that .any persons, but tho-e sett-
tenced for life, should be :°transported. , In 1800,
40 persons [ad been, transported who had but one
year of their term to expire; 'and !d who had brA-t
nine months, were'
transporfea 'to New South
.Wales, a.Alyage -of nine montlil. Even I;st
August, Or/1U men had been transported hav-
ing only two yeari of their term • uneXpired. It
was 'cruellO•send-out unhappy &mitts- tinder such
CirctutotanCes, With.unt tyro,. iding the mean cif ti•teir

return ; it was particularly so with respe&
.to fe-
male, and persons of feeble frameS, who were un-
able to work their passage home. He deprecated
the idea that transportation was but a summer voy-
age to a better climate, as it might have a very
grievous effect it such an impression. were to be
felt by magistrates throughout the country, intrust-
ed with the administration of the laws. The system
of penitentiaties had been successfully tried in
America, and had produced the most beneficial re-.
sults in England, wherever it. had been tried. The
Government of Ireland deserved the highest praise
for its encouragement of this system; and if the.
-British Government, with the experience of Not-,
tingham, and the example of America and Ireland,
should •still adhere to the present systcm,.it would
merit as much censure as the Irish Govei•nment
merited honour. He should therefore move, " That
an humble Address be pre,4enttd to his Majesty,
that he would be graciously ple:lsed to give direc-
tions for carrying into etre& so much Of the t9tit of
the King as `relates to creating penitentiary prisons,
and also to carry into execution the A& of the 34th
•
of his reign."
Mr. Secretary RYDER said,-that when he last in-
duced his Hon. Friend to withdraw this motion, it
was under the eivettation that he should be able to
procure complete information upon the subje6l;
that information he had since not obtained, in Gen,.
sequence of the absence from London'of a Gentle-
, man who had applied himself laboriously to the
cons'derat ion of such sebjeas. ?He had coma-Juni-
' cations with that distinguished individual Sir Georee
Paul, and lie found that doubts were entertained
Whether considerable improvements might not be
made in the system enacted by the 19th and 34th of
the King. He hoped, therefore, that his Hon. and
Learned Friend would wirhdiaw his motion, under
an understandihg .that the question should be taken
up at an early period of the next Session, when they
would have' the advantage of all the practical
infor-
mation that could be obtained on the subje&. He
had inquired into the circumstance of the persons
transported, as.alluded to by his Hon. and Learned
Friend, and found that they had conducted them-
;selves in excising the other convicts to commotion,
and assisted in the escape of three that had been re-
commended for transportation.
• Mr. BATHURST said, he should propose a midd;e
course, and that 'was, that the House should give
a distinct pledge to take the question into conside-'
ration early next Session.

Mr. WILBEFFORCE regretted that a suggestion of
his on a former occasion for re-print,ing the Report
on this subjed had-not been attended ta,. because, if
that Report had been in the hands Of Gentlemen, it
would- be- itnptissible lor them not to agree to the
motion of his Hon. Friend. He was aware of the
arduous duties which his Right Hon. Friend had

to perform; but when he.recollecled how often this
admirable; plan had been near be ng carried into exe-
cution, he could not reconcile himself to any delay
of. the motion.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL preferred the middle
course.

Mr. WHITBREAD suppofted the motion. He
said, iliat of Mr. Howard, with whiim
he had, been intimately connee.ed frorn bisintanc.y,
bad been misunderstood. Mr. Howard rlever
thought of solitary imprisonment as a punislime:it
ought to. be comiouett fur more than a iery
short time.

The question was then put, and the motion Was
lost by.a majority of 6g to 52.

NAVAL INQUIRY.

Mr. StiAnPE comidained that the Fifteenth Report
•of the Commissioners of Naval .Revision had not
been laid before the House. The Report to which
he alluded set forth the 'necessity of establishing a
new Naval Arsenal at Northfieet. It appealed that
our harbours at Portsmouth and klymouth were:on
the decline, havirg less der Li of water than former-
ly, so that the ships coming in to be repaired, :Were
obliged to have their guns and stores taken out bp-
- fore they could enter.' Similar inconveniences were
experienced at Deptford and at Woolwich, so that
ships of.the line were obliged to drop down to Long
Reach, or Northfleet to be fitted out for sea. Ti•,ese
circumstances rendered the estab:ishment cf a new
Naval,Arsenal necessary. The immense .expences
incurred in consequence of the evils he had
described . were sufficient to answer any object ion
-that might be made to the expence attending .the
e,tablicihment of a new Naval Arsenal„ however
, great
.it might be. 'ln the event of a peace, such
an establishment would be necessary, as room would
be wanting to lay up 130 siii of the line, and
upwards of 400 other vess.b of war. This was
propoed in the Report, as a remedy for the evilS
complained of, and N..rilatet was named as having
a greater depth of water than. either of our docks
at Portsmouth, at Plytnop.'l, at Deptford, or at
Woolwich. He thcught the .Report ought to be
laid on their table, and concluded 'by moving " an
humble Address to his' Majesty, praying that be,
Would be graciouly pleased to dired that the Fif-
teenth Report of Commissioners of Naval Re-
vision, and the riePOrt seat in to the Board of Ad-
miralty, dated Q. f1.,:t.L307, and signed J. Kenny
and J. Whitby, relating to Mooring Chains; be laid
before that House."

Mr. YORK observed the present -naval exertions
had outgrown all former systems ; and it would,
therefore, be proper to make- some new arrange-
ment to 'meet the inconvenience thence arising. It
was, however, the first duty of Government to look
well into- all the circutristances and bearings of the
case, before 'they expended 10,000,0001. in forming
the proposed new arsenal at NortlitLet. The
House could' not 'at. pre,,ent enter fully into the ques-
tion with prudence, but be hoped Government, at
a. period not very distant, would be able to grant the
information required, Or give satisfa6tory reasons
fir withholding it. He should oppose the Motion,
as the Report could not be prodUced at present with-
otit,Much inconvenience to thepublic service.
Mr. WILBERFORCR adverted to Lord Melville's
narrative on the snbjecl. He did not think it atall
un..afe tbr the Report to lie on the table. If the
measure was thought of some years ago, it was still
more nec.2ssary from the present aspect of altairs to
put it into rina. With reaped to the calculation,
,Lord. Barham's authority was. sufficient. He did
not immediately approve of the produ6tion of the
papers, and hoped that ere long something etredual
w bold be adopted.

Mr. ROSE ap[roved of the authorities cited by
the I-lou. ;Gentleman, to which he wished is add

that of Lord Vincent, who tkOught there. -was or;
absolute necessity of fortificatiocs and armaments
eastward of Spithead. The dock-yards, instead of
declining, are in a cons•ant state of improvement
In the harbour of Portsmouth Illere is no want of
deep water. He alluded to his publication on the
depth of the Thames, i❑ which the most skilful and
experienced judges concurred. The idea of manu-
facturing sail cloths in the yards he deemed to be
totally misconceived. He never asserted that there
should be no arsenal at Northfleet; 'lie merely
deemed strict inquiry necessary into the extent of
such a work.

• Mr. DUNDAS wished- that the Hon. Gentleman
would not at present press his motion. He
agreed • with his several statements. The • ques-
tion has been-already before the Privy Council, hut
in consequence of the-greatexpence necessary, no
decision has been come to. Before the Public em-
bark. in the propOsition, they should have the whole
scheme before them.

Mr, W. Stvwcn stated, that almost every Noble
Lord who has been at the head -of the Admiralty,
has 11t a memorandum of the importance of this
measure. It should not be postponed, inasmtiai
it concerned the independence of the kingdom.
Mr.•CROKEQ observed, that the Hon. Gentleman
did not hear his Right Hon. Friend state, that the
matter bad been long under—consideration: The
delay did not arise from any 'unwillingness, but from.
its great importance, and the wish to avoid bring-
ing it out piece-meal.

Mr. StfARPE hoped that he stood acquitted to•the
House of not having proposed anything indiscreet
Mr. DUNDAS expldirred.
I The questiOn was then put, and negatived with
-
I out a division.

Mr. BANKES postponed till this day the adjourned
debate on the Irish Pension List.
The Foreign Timber Bill- went through a Corn-
mittee.—To be reported to-day.
On the motion Ibr the second reading of the East
India Loan Bill,
Mr. CREEVBY, adverting to the -late hour of the
, night, opposcFthe motion ; he expressed his asto-
nishment at its now I.k!ing brought forward, notwith-
standing its being understood that a debate was to
take place .on the subjea, in this stage.—He moved
that the debate be adjourned:
Mr. DONOAs did not know of any such under-
standing.—He thought that the opposition was to
. have taken place in the Committee.
Mr. CREEVEY expresied his determination oftak
ing the sense of the Wuse. The House accordingly
divided. There appeared---•

For the "Kinenclincnt . . . 23
Apinst*it : . . . . . '6r
.Majority . . .
On our. return to the Gallery, we found Sir T.
TuirroN speaking on a second motion of Mr. C.:fee-
vc,:r's for the ad.i))urnment of the House.
Mr. W. W i NNE made a number of observations;
he not see any objection to the prese-nt motion, nor:
whysMiniSters wished to shorten the Session. Per-
haps, from recent .appearances they feared long dis-
cussions. A diVisian was called tor there ap
peared _ _

_
For the Adjaufnment
Ag.iinst it . . . .
Majority - .— So • 1
Whie strangers were excluded, another divisioP.
'.. took place on the second reading-of the Bill: They;
appeared— ,

For the second reading . . . 61
Against it . . ..... 14
Majority . . . —l7
The Bill was accordingly read .a, second tire,-and
ordered to be committed on Thursday.
Tne Assessed Taxes Bill went through a Gin!'
mittee. To be reported to-morrow.
Toe other Orde'Fs of the Day were then dispoied
of, and the Ho-use adjourned at Two o'Clock.

MAILS..
Aakiv ea —1 Heligoland, i Dub:in, i Waterford.
Gottenburgh, a Lisbon, z Waterford-.

PRICE OF STOCKS
THIS I) Y AT TWELVE CeCLOCr
Consols 71i for Op. I Red. Ann. - (i9j Uranium

11 tl. .12; 6 UN.

SOLEM QUIS 3ICFErZ.I7. At:Dr:AT?

L 0 N D V N,

WEDNESDAY, JUNE Gy 118 !O.

I This moron% we. received .Puiel4 Papers to the .34
. inst. and some
.Gerrnan Papers of an old date. The
rumours of a negotiations between Gieat Britain and
France, which were lately so prevalent upon like
.Continent; .seen) to hate died away, 'and to -bac°
-ben succeeded by others of a more hostile descii.i-
lion. BUONAPARTE, it is said, is determined to
make some grand maritime effort this summer, aad
has therefore hastened forward the naval prepare'
tioos at Antwerp, with his charaderis.tic vehemence'
While he Ar'as at Antwerp, be was locked up.-for Se-
veral bourS each day with his brother JEROake
and the Minister of Marine arranging, as it was.
supposed, the plans of \his grand naval expedi-
tion. JEROkE, We presume; was admitted into
these consultations, because_ he was an Admiral'
but an Admiral of less experience we believe never
existed, and if BL/ONAPAITE does not consul:
more able advisers, we need not look to the
result of the expedition with much apprehension.--
The Courts of Petersburgh, Stockholm, and Copen'
hagen, are, it is said, to take their share in this grand
maritime alba, at least the number of couriers
which have been sent to them by BUONAPARTS
has given the to that opinion. These reports
in the- Continental Papers are, perhaps, a little
exaggerated, but there can be little doubt but that
a most formidable armament will be collected at
Antwerp this summer. The wisdom of the attack_
upon that great naval arsenal, will, we are con'
vinced, become every day more apparent, though
the Opposition, in their eagerness to arraign Milli-
s'ets, censured them as much for sele_ling the

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