The Sun.
London, England, 1828-06-21 00:00:00

two establishments of Kilmainham and Chelsea
should be consolidated.

Lord PALMERSTON said, all that had been
promised had been performed, and that wt.% that the
out-pensioners of Kilmainham should be tinder the
control of the establishment at Chelsea.
After a few words from Sir A. HOPE and Mr.
MABERLY, the resolution was agreed to.
The next resolution was, " that a sum not exceed-
ing 46,115/. 2s. 11d. be granted to his Majesty to
defray the expenses of the in•pensioners of Chelsea
Hospital, and of the Royal Hospital near Kilmain-
ham, for 1828."

Mr. HUME said they had had that vote before.
Sir H. HARDINGE said that they had dis-
cussed it, but that it had not yet been proposed.—
Agreed to.
The next resolution was, " that a sum not ex-
ceeding 335,9761. 3s. id. be granted to his Ma-
jesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the
expenses of the out-pensioners of Chelsea Hospital
for 1828."

After a few words from Sir H. HARDINGE, Lord
PALstER.t,ToN, Sir A. HOPE, and Mr. HUME, the
YO*.e was agreed to.
'n Majesty for The next was, " that a sum r_...ot exectding
27,629/. 3s. 7d, be granted tQ ts
de-
fraying the charge Cuf tic Royal Military Asylum for
1828. --Agreed to.
'The next vote was, " that a sum not exceeding
143,083/. be granted to his Majesty for the payment
of the pensions of the widows of officers in his Mai
jesty's land forces for 1828."
Mr. HUME was anxious to call the attention of
the Right Hon. Gentleman to the expence of the
office of Chaplain-General to the army, to which was
attached 8001. a year. This salary was only 3001. a
year till the middle of the war, when it was raised to
its present amount. The clergyman who now held
it had also a high dignity in the church, as Dean of
Carlisle, and he was also the incumbent of St,
George's parish, one of the richest about London.
Nov this was monstrous.

Lord PALMERSTON `Lid, the situation was
by no means a sinecure. The appointment was not
with the Secretary at War, it was with the Com-
mander-in-Chief; tnd the person holding it had the
responsibility ;if all appointments to chaplaincies in
the army •
„ as those appointments were made on his
rear.umendatioh, There were not now so many
army chaplains as before, but a great part of the
duty of regiments was done by local clergy, with
whom there was a very extensive correspondence
kept up by the chaplain-general.
Mr. HUME said, if he had the extensive corres-
pondence mentioned by the Noble Lord, how could
he attend to his other duties ? The Noble Lord had
complained of the paltry allowance of 2001. or 3001.
a year given to a general officer or colonel after 10
or 50 years service, and yet here was an individual
with 800/. a-year, who had never seen any. But
the 800/. a year was not the only cost of this office.
There was allowance for office-rent, clerk, and
assistant-messenger, &c., making altogether a sum as
goad as the value of a bishopric. While on this
subject he would mention the large sums paid for
Bibles to the army. He had it from the serjeant of
a regiment stationed at Edinburgh Castle, that the
men who had each got a Bible, sold them when
leaving, because they did not wish to add to the
already great weight of their kit.
Lord PALMERSTON said, that when the men
were on march at home, their kit went on the
baggage-waggons.
Mr. HUME.—Only sometimes.

The motion was then agreed to.
The next item was, " that a sum not exceeding
195,5001. he granted to his Majesty to defray the
charge of allowance on the compassionate list; also
for his Majesty's Royal bounty, and for compensa-
tion to officers for wounds, for 1828."—Agreed to.
The next was, " That a sum not exceeding
58,1801. 19s. 11d. be granted to his Majesty to de-
fray the charge of allowances, compensation, and
emoluments, in the nature of superannuation al-
lowances, to persons in the several departments
connected with the army, for 1828."
Mr. HUME, on looking over the accounts, saw
a pension to Mr. Lushington, who had already
10,000/. a-year, as Governor of Madras. He wished
to know if this pension was to be continued.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
would inquire into the subject.
The motion was then agreed to.
The next motion was, " That a sum not exceed-
ing 33,0001. be granted to his Majesty for defray-
ing the charge of Exchequer-fees on issues for army
services for 1828."

Mr. BERNAL asked whether some means might
not be devised to simplify these accounts.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, the subject would be submitted to the Finance
Committee. _ _

After a few words from Mr. HuatE, respecting
the necessity of reduction, which were replied to by
Sir H. HARDINGE, the motion was agreed to.
Sir H. HARDINGE next moved, " That a sum
not exceeding 283,1981.65. Id. be granted to his Ma-
jesty to defray the charge of disembodied militia of
the United Kingdom, for 1828." The Right Hon.
Gentleman observed, that this sum was voted under
an Act of Parliament, and could not at present be
reduced, but he did hope that a reduction would be
made next year.
Mr. S. RICE admitted that this expence was tin-
der the authority of an Act of Parliament. But
much of this large expence might have been saved.
This militia had cost the country 2,500,0001. in the
last twelve years, and really no adequate value was
given for it. The expence was under three heads—
training and exercise, enrolment of men, and expence
connected with their effective strength. First, as to
training, there had been only three trainings in the
lasi 12 years, which had cost the country a large sum
each. tie asked what possible benefit the service
could have Derived from these trainings in twelve
years ? And .iet those three trainings had cost
the country upwart:.! of 300,0001. If the train-
ing and exercise were, as he thought must be admit-
ted, not required, of what was the balloting and
enrolment ? In the metropolis and the adjacent
counties, ballotting was a system of :mere fraud and
perjury. He believed that if the militia were called
out in the districts he had mentioned, no available
force could be obtained. The balloting causcd an
annual expense of 24,0001., besides occasioning ecry
considerable trouble to the Home and Foreign
Offices, and the Lords Lieutenant of counties, by
correspondence and other duties. He now came to
the permanent strength of the force. Any person
who looked at the present strength of the militia
staff must be satisfied that it was greater than was.
requisite. By the statute of the 57th of Geo. 111.,
a power was vested in the Crown for reducing the
militia staff. Immediately after the passing of that'
statute, Lord Sidmouth, then Secretary of State for
the Home Department, proceeded to effect a reduc-
tion. He (Mr. Rice) was desirous that Govern-
ment should receive from Parliament a similar dis-
cretionary power. He would now say one word
with respect to the Irish militia. A more prepos-
terous job than the present establishment of the
Irish militia staff had never received the sanction of
Parliament. In Ireland there was no ballot and no
training; the expense of the staff, however, was
greater than in England. The service in Ireland was
merely a source of patronage to the colonels of the
regiments. It was their custom to form their men
into bands for the entertainment of their friends at
their mansions. He did not complain of the taste for
pomp which those gentlemen displayed, but he did
not think it right they should indulge it at the public
expense.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
requested the Hon. Member to recollect that when
he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was eon-
bnect-ed with the Government of Ireland, he intro-
duced 'a Bill for the reduction of the staff. Tile
Hon. Member proposed that Government should
take from Parliament authority to deal with the
militia as they might deem proper. He did not
think it would be right in Government to accept each
a power. It had been urged, that when there was