The Sun.
London, England, 1810-04-17 00:00:00

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l'` would it not . be tOcee,nrech "to demand
at the man should. be contineed in prison because
conscientiously -be bad-. erred..?--.Seppose- -.fortes'
heed since hit first confession changed his opinion,
zt,id that his refusal to petition pktKet.ftied frorma con-
scientious motie,--e, would, the Right lion. Gentle-
Man .wish:to apply .the torture I .Jones 4 to, comply
Itith, the Right. lion: Gentleman's. humour, must
eiteer act the part of a hypocrie, or consent to lie
iti prison. It must be recollected that Jones waa-
•proseeuted for a. libel, nor was it contended
that' this-oft ence.obstruded the proceedings of tee
liousee Mr. W..thert referred to the cese of Stuck-
dale, prosecuted by the:Artort:ey-General fur a libel
the House; as also the , case of Reeves.. The
itight Hon. Gentleman bad confounded the crimes
44- Drake, Saudon, and Cheering, with that. of
"tit es, but they were widely different, and hadask-
e-Lvehether
.this. was the time. to clip the whip of
Frivileges. ,The privileges met power. o 1 Parliament
were commensurate with the casts. Tile Hon. Geo-
teinan declared he was not in the House when Jones
`vas brought to the Bar. If he-had, he should have
voted for sending him to trial as. a means cx; obtain-
lOg for Jinn-stria justice. He was prepared to con-
tend that he ought to be dischargedote every princi-
Plenfjustice, andsh •uld therefore- ote thr the mu-
.lloll of his Hon. aud-Learned Friend.
• ,Mr. WitionAm explessell hii
osell decidedly hos-
I lle to the proposed release Of Gale Jones. He should
dt therefore, for the present, resist the Motion.
- Mi. CANNING obseived, • that he was" not the
tnasier of the time. at which the present discussion
Ilari taken place ; he had not sought lot: thew agitation
•it at the present mom. itt ; but as it ,bad been
brought forward, it was his duty to give his vote ac-
cording to the best of his judgment. He was not
ene of- those who entertained the smallest doubt of
the validity of the privileges of the House of Cont-
coons, or of the right of exercising them. Those
,„. questions had' been deCided by the House; and, in
e that decision, his own individual cpintoteconeuieed.
• tit the House'were not asked to,recant, either in-.
dividually or in a body ;
,were not asked to give
t'll.the privileges themselves, or.to cad in,donbt the
Propriety of their exercise in the present in-
stance. The sialple .question before them was
whether the" punishment which bad been already
uealt out in the individual who had incurred their
vilispleasurw was - adequate to his offence.' No one
.being prepared to say that there %,‘ as any precise or
specific duration of punishment proportionate to the
4 effence, and all being left to judge for themselves
tipon that question, .lie could not but think that the
Punishment which had been inflitted. was not.in-
'. edeguate to the offeuee which had been committed.
fie allowed that be felt great repugnance in agitate
'ng the subjet on that particular occasion. He
could wish that it bad been postponed at least for
k'rtY-eight hours. When, however, it was consider--
e d, that the agitation of the question was not the act
• of the party immediately concerned, but of another,
it would appear that that was no ground for refusing.
to concur in the propused motion. If he thought that
the Honourabte and Learned Gentleman had brought
forward this question in consequence of a co:nam-
e tlication with the iodividual immediately ccincern-
ede he would be ready to agree with those who
Contended that the choice of time ought to be ern-
chive against the motion ; but any such com-
lnuoicatioo he understood the
sHune and. Learned
Gentleman distinctly to disclaim. There was this
alternative, ought the House to exhaust on the of-
fence of Mr. Gale Jones else whole of the punistr-
4)ent which they were capeble of inflicting on the
host aggravated offence, or could that be considered
very • severe panishint:nt which must necessarily
soon arrive at a termination ? .The distinaion which
1" had taken- the liberty of
,marking between the
mode in which this motion was brought. forward,
`:11(1 I rte rn,ode in which it might have been brought
,orward—in the one ease, with the concurrence of
e the. iirkoile, and in othel without it, applied to ano-
f,- ther part of the argumentoiainely, the question of
vontuntacj.. If the apelicaeon to the House were
")ade without the concurrence of the prisoner, it
~'3lllti not •by any means be contumacy in him not to
have presented" a petitien, especially as he had im-
mediately atter the commission of his offence desired
mercy, and as it 'might appear to him that the
Professions which were used in vain; to pre-
' rent the inflation of -punishment,_ might be used
t' vain to shorten its duratiOn. The' question,
I.,,a4°Wever, having been brought forward,. the
4-4 obse had to consider which was the most
4 Livantageous way of, disposing of it. He was
•1494 one of ihoee who thought it a matter of great
congratulation that all these questions of privileee
/'"re brought.. to issue at the present time. He
stated
this as his sin ere opinion; without imputing
. tante or even indiscretion to any man. The, course
i)f circumstances had produced what he did not con-
?,eive to be a very desirable" conjuncture. That con-
iTteture had •however arrived, and must be met'.
;e should not be stispeCted of wishing
~to Oak*
tc'ill the considemion of any -circurristanee ei-
ther lean any apprehension of" a (fired sort,
filen the fuer so well described by.• his
onourable and Learned Friend near him, the
'ear of being supposed afraid. He confessed that
4letugh he thought it would be unfair to allow any
kXtritisic consideretion to operate on the manner in
I:.:ltte:t the House Might deal with the individual
• busy case was under disetassion, yet, that he should
tmn With that indi.idteil with more reluctance, if
.7 conceived that it would be imagiued by any one
that the. question of priVilege was thereby set at
`t'st or supposed to he done away. But, on the dis-
lussien relative to the CoOdua. of the great offen-
-400 who had since been justly and rightfullx int.;
ratsotted under the werrent of the Speaker, it
ed been well argued that it was on the great of-
fender, and not mi the small alone that the House
-°llght . to feel disposed to assert its authority: - In
.. °incidence with that argument he was at liberty,
wt:liout the hazard of any induction injurious to his
'ease of the honour and ditaity of the House, to
"wend ilea the House might spew lenity to the
rennet' offeiider, without the imputation of fear,
. Ceeatase the questibn remained alive in the way
Which was thought the must formidable.. For his
tart, he saw no more to- fear in- the agitation of
.'i. `t-question than to wish ; but it would still remain
irgitated, if the -minor though original offender
ltit2,l-r set at liberty. It was no more necessary for
.ee.se- to proeced tit the• discussion -of their
• " ••:.-;''s with .I\,3r. Gale .Jones jn their power,
was uecessazy fur Sir Frencis Burdett to try

•• , , . • .
the `t:vliei) he, &pew& by pushing his
resistance to au.extent, by-which lie forfeited not
only. the •good of thdse Strho, best .kotAir
him, but also the favourable sentiments Of ninny
in that House, who were, riot of the
.namber of
hi,s friends. Ofthe latter class he (111 r. Canning)-was
-one;; he. liad,expre4ied his favourable senritriems,,
but thesubsequent conduct of the H0n..13 nenet -
•doced` rr to recant. them altogether. Under all
the circumstances of the cas-!, not thinkingtlial the
absence-ut a petition was a. proof of contomacy,On
the part of the. prisoner,: and conceaviug. that the,,
punishment wilieh he had already sustained was
commensurate, to 11;s- otleiee, he was. in: tined- to
vote.fox his. release ; -that, by .so doing he
should nut in the -srnalleit.,degree„impu, t. a siulle
privilege of the House...
The Souorroa-GetsertAL. declared, that at that
niornent,, on that night,. undkr. all. ,the cirmin--
stances..presented to their cwt,.idera:ion, li. did not
feel called tipin in justice either to the individual or
to the House to set aside what had liven admitted on
all.han4- to: be, the uniform principle:of practice
.ot the. House of.Conunon, Without giving any opi-
nion as to the vote which he. might be tiispoied to
give at aoOtherpeciod, on the presentation Of a peti-
tion, he repeated,-that on that night, under the ex-
iStiag -circ•dustances, he could by no Means accede to
the; motion of his :Bon. and Learned. Friend^.- It
was a total mistake to say, that by atetition the
prisoner would retract his opinions on the question
of privilege.; ail be waS• called' upon .tO ^express was,
h:s sorrow that he
.had violated the-psivileges of the.
House. But it had hen-icontehiled th;it the Pri
saner had alreidy dedared this orally, and that the
• presentation of a PAition a mere form. Bot
itr dila case, if it 'became 11:41:testion: whethei• the
House. of ConutiOns shoirld relinquish an esta-
blished • wag-7., or an int!ividual form.), from which.
he woltld sustain no inconVetuchc,"^, the retdy
was obvious to him. TO such -an indivjdiial
it might be said, "-roferili-,7.z0n fit injuria." If,'
the Howl- that:night; for the. first t:rne in the an-
nals of -I)drl;ainent, departed 'froth their usage,
could any on, say that it r&ght not be a fatal blow
to their .dignity and author-4 Referring
,to the
cases of Santto(l and Clavcridg, he woalif whi(iO
of,the two tv is chargeable" with -the greater guilt ?
Sandon unques:tionably Sandoti- petitioned,
and, was release
*in Marsh ; Clavering di!: not pe-
tition, and =e+ as not re-leased till June. If, tltt re.
C
fore, M. ale •Sonr's .were to be nosy ,
wi.no a having presented. a pettrion, eery' body
wouh trestioo the justice ;of the House in not.
having released Clavering without a peinion:
the individual in:clues:ion pr,:ferred a. eert.in kin
of poßuhrrit to a compliaucc with. the-form-, of
the House, where was he • injustic,,:ot alaivking
him to enjoy it ?--.11. lie were oaier‘!d to be,
liberated; he might say, (I Thank' you for. nothing—'
You have done what-I do neat 'watt-4-woli:d rather
• stay where Upon the whole,. he ;inc- ino7,!
declared, that lie could not bring lornSeif on that.
night to break in' upon- an by the infrioge-
n-..ent cif wiri•eb t tieehara&er, oigoiry,lmd: honour of
the Hoose:Consmon,i, would be abludoiled:
Mr. W. SMITH had not been accustomed to con.,
eider the character, !ignity, and honour of the Honse
of Cotninons as residing in points so tioe4sential.
The learned .Geo:lernau bound up:in legal •t ram-
-Inds (unlike his Honourable. and Learnt d Dtiend
near hi oh, had seievti,ki some-of the strongest cases.
imaginable in slippirt of- Ids 'argument. t He
luid adduced two cr,intrasted C.iSes which had be ter.
been bored ,in oblivion. He did not recollect the
comparatiVe time of thvi imprisonnients of 'Captain
Sandon and General Claming ; if Gene 7
ral Clavering had been kept in prison because
lie would not present a peotion, acknowledging
an offence of which he did not, believe him-
self guilty, he bad been most hardly treated; and
such usage woold not give the. country an exalted
sense of the justice-of the House.. Mr; Gale Jones
had stood in an unfortunate situation', He had,
bzen imprisoned-'a week longerthan he Might .have
been on a ground totally distiti& from any crimi-
nality of his own ; 'and now many feared to release.
him because it was' the vigil of' a t e-tain Saint. A
most disgraceful reason ! To punish an individual for
a greater length of time, because a certain question
was about to be agitated in another place, with,
which the House had no right to suppose that that
individual had any thing to do, was a most unjust
procedure. What had passed since the committal
of• Sit F. Burdett to the Tower did not indUce hith
to consider that measure more wise ,tban before;
biat till the ‘whole-case was disposed of—till the trial
(if to a trial it were to come) was over, those who
were adiocates for- keeping Mr: Gale Jones in pri-
son, on such grounds as those to which he had allud-
ed,. would 'never want arguments to support them.
All such considerations :were extraneous. The true
question was, if- the party. offending had suffered a
punishment adequate to his offence. Conceiving
that he had, he should vote for the motion. •

Mr. .MARItYATT thought the duration of the pu-
nishrnent of Mr. Gale. Jones had been Sufficiently
long. •
-Sir J. lIALL contended, that if the Huuse.did not
releas6Mr. G.Jle loves till he they woutt
then keep him in prison. lag_ during their own pica '
mire, but during the - pleasure of Mr; Gale Jones
himself. He did not conceive- that the House
should be restrained by any, consideration from doing
justice. • . ,
-

Mr. WitzenFolleuFaskt;d if .the duration of. the. /!
punishment-was already propriloned to theoffenco,
bow. it could possibly be extended with justice.
.As
had been well Uy the Right Hon.. Gentleman,
having already cAtablislizd.their. power an a.greaser
offender, the -House were .nacre. at liberty to remit
the pinaishmenLailie less.. Although he.confessed
that there were painful cireu.tnstances.attending the
agitation of this question, yet a; oft the wh'ole nap—
pearcd to him that M. Gale hanee.s.rinnislinictit
ha4' been sullitient, .he should .vote, fue:
ration.

Mr. WARDLE_ trusted that on. no very cliatantatday:
the main question of the power ofthe tiollse to
imprison would be discus,ed. Ha.wculd theastate
the grounds of his opinion that no such ppwerr.!
existed.

Mr. CROJCER ObjeaChi to the motion, on the-soi.e
ground,that was in opposition to a loilg triiri of
uninterrupted precedents, oti ;.vtioriple ucirer hero-
totore questioawd. Ir—any•deviation from s••cl) rn
established usage couid be:drriitted;••. lie At.:pi rea,ty
to allow that theprise. t Was 'a tit •case ; but Aviten

hi recolleeied; that in ILO' who7e h4iniy of Pariia.... .
inept there was not . a single irt.'ance.of, such a da-
viatioti, he could not think that this -was the parti-
cular case-, or.. this the particular time Nt filch should
induce the I:louse to depart. from theit long esta-
blished Customs. - ,

Mr.13.1...vius observed,. that the Home were call:.
ed upon to do ilO less than to depart from an unin.
terrUpted Hoe of precedents.. At What time too
ive!e they so- called upon ? At I-time when those
privileges were. questioned, essential• to tt consti-
Rijn!) of. the riouse.of Commons, without which`
it con!Ll ey_kst; without Vhich it 6otiid not resist.
the encroachments- of the Crowth• or protect the
privileges,of the, P&Opie. He had: no disposition 'to
oress fof s.t..vere punishment upon the offender;
grezlt was it that he was required to
do Ile was 1(.-.(itlired. merely to approach the
with. that due humility which was proper for
a per,-on, in hist situation..
,What was; the peculiar
merit of- Mr. Gale. Jones that the House should do
that in his mse they had. never:done before?
He could not conceive that under. such circum-
skaces it was Unjilq to refuse to liberate nny
The fau!t was the indi-vida..rps 6!,vn, Above ali,•-he
deprecd!ed iii.: success of the m,:tion at such a mo-
uric:at as !lie present,, and cobjored the House not to
accede to it.

Mr. H. Aunt N0.T0:,:, adverting to the. able state•
-
merit of the 11,glit'lionotrrable th‘l Speakeriobserv-
ed,- that the gerier,dityof the ca-es adduced by that
high authority, might probably differ from the case
Of Mr. G ile Jones. The i nib's, ualS. to .w hOtri,"thoSe.
cases referred-, .had perhaps • been committed to
Newgote without having expressed any contrition..
Now its he understood (tor he was not present) Mr:
G-ale Janes expressed
.hiscorurition at :the Bar in is
most decent and becoming manner.. It -w3B 11,t
•
common to. tummit after the express:on of Mich
contrition,. At the same time he would say.), that
had he -been present he should have voted for the_
cbwtnittal of Mr.. Gale Jones, not a, a punishment,
but as an -example to deter others from the conamis-
sion of stAfilar offendes. Mr. Jones's viva voce
contrition was a sodof petition that' he Might ,not
be sent to' Ne Argite at ad rind might. be considered
as a petition virtually 'continuing to the House io
release biro dtt twit- peasure. Thinking the ptioish-
mentAtat Mr. Gait! Jones had undergone sufficient,.
be shiini,l tote tbr his release.
Mr. OWEN contended, that justice required-that
tie If.ruse should regard their own -privileges, acid
!: a Mr; GaLt-jories ought to present-a petition be-
to: e .they :•,g.ee to iris release. It was net im-
-Ir:oh:fut. that former 'P rotirmitt-s Considerediliepre-
-tiling. a petition as 44 part of the punishment of the
offender. - . • • •

W, W1:N:;2 was the last man who would

ak: n- • the. privileges or- authority of the 'House,
hui the ad'oplion of the present motion would not in,
his oi,ini.)o endanger crater.. With. respO.t, to the..
ca:ie of (4en.Ciavaing,„ which had been alluded
.to,
he had abitained froin moving the release of General
.C:avering before the cad of the. Session, bectuse he
cntreived, that it would be a lighter punishment to
remain irl..prison a month longer than lie might have
done,, than to be brought to the Bar of the House,
and receive.a reprimand from the .Chair.. He re—
gretted the day that had been selected for this tn.)tion,
but when he eojisidered that it it were not ;.:,...'optect
r.)-aay',•it catild.not, in all -probabillty, be brotv,ht
14ward again for a fortnight; when he •al,o eon-
stdert-d tha, the punishment of Jones had. been s,,f-
ticient for his otlence,(which was one that he .had
no hesitation in declaring deserved punishment), he
could not withhold his consent from it. .

Amin, notwithitariding what had fallen froin
an Honotirable 'Gentleman on the floor (Mr.
Bankes); was yet inclined to doubt whether the
rule 'requiring-petition previous to enlargement, was
a rule invariably 'observed. He apprehended that
there had been instances of liberations without peti-,
tions, .but'this he would not. take upon himself to
assert posititely. It= was however an usage, and
then the questi:m was, whether .it was
.ari
usage 'aniounting to a law ? If it was an usage
amounting-to a law, then it brought down the right;
of coMulittnent to a right of committing for con-
tempt in the narrowest sense-,-contempLiti the nay-
rawest sense was physical obstrudion, in that case
the vet4son'coromitted was necessarily, bound to ac
I nowledge
.his ()Once as a security against the retie;.
tition of it.. Here then theregulatiou might- be.said
to be- inveterate law, but then there were construe=
tine obstruaiohs respeding which the House in the
,e,c'cisd- of their jtidAtnent had, a wider latitude of
discretirm. The exercise of that discretion must;
of course, vary according to tile circumstances
of (hal:rent cases ; they did not question the
right of the privilege itself, nor at all wLlaken' -it
'by such a variation—since. die disct,Ssion was not
Upon the existence of the privilege; but upon the ex-
tent- and degree to tklich it had been miolated, and lie
thought:that their •nOt being tied down to a strict
observance of the same urkilorm Picceedings, in all
cases rather strengthengd 'than Avealsened theft pri
vileges,"whcreas the twinning the breach to the
narrow ground of mele,C
o.nempt; .%‘ lak ill& Out
of the, :class of constrolivo obstruct it: n reda,c-
ing to that of plrsical'obuttv:tions mer,,y. It the,i
the case now befuie them was not one of fikese, but,
a construetive obitruttion, then the question was
'reduced to one of distributive justice,. and 'looking
at it in the light of a question of dist( ;butive justice,
he had no hesitation to say, that the arguments of
the Right Honourable and Learned Genth-man (the
Master of the Rolls) were tinans •.% et able, If then
it, „
cpu appear that justice was tavonr rhe;mown,
,
IN hat was art& that lothie *um ?
He thought, fir his part, that it wonld_shew more
Courage to do their duty opetily, and in defiance of
'vulgar CaluMny, than to be,,clet, rrtql from, it by the
'fear of being atraid—th4 had demonstrated their
pdWer not to be at - a!l,afraid of -cUmmiiting their
authority by the liberation of Mr.,JOnes. He shan't!
suggest, however, to his Learned Friend,, the pr&-
priety of substituting WLidnesdi9r in his Resolution
in -toe place of Tilesday, on account of .the popni
far meelips to be held on that day in Westminster
Hall. • .

Sir SAMUEL. ROMILLY readily accedeclA.o-the sug-
gestiop of Mr. Adatn, and varied the wording of his
;Atli°luticm accordingly. He coeid not as easily ac-
cede to the •suggestion of a Right Honourable Gen--
Ili:omit respetling 'the inserting,in the Resolntion a
.thal from'
tiiii,ch he. (Sir • 8 whitely ti,ht cledared•the
House, in his hutnbleindgotent, had not any right