The Sun.
London, England, 1828-06-17 00:00:00

THE -ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY'S BILL.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the third
reading of the Archbishop of Canterbury's Bill.
Mr. HUME objected to the princiPle of this Bill,
which went to grant the reversion of. a situation
which was a sinecure, and the duties of which were
performed lay deputy. The House of Commons in
1811 had resolved that it was expedient to reduce
as far as possible all sinecure places. • The present
Bill was in direct opposition to that resolution, and
therefore it was that he was opposed to it. He was'
aware, that the Archbishop was placed in a difficult
situation by the refusal of the two persons who
now held the situation, to give up their interest, and
be would, therefore, not oppose the Bill if the Right
Hon. Gentleman would consent to the introduction
of a clause to the effect that nothing in that Billshould'
be held to interfere • with the right of Parliament to
abolish the office altogether, or if the Right Hon.
Gentleman would introduce a clause declaratory of
the intention of Parliament, that nothing in that
Bill should entitle them to compensation in the event
of its being hereafter desirable .to abolish the office
in toto ? He perceived that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man was not disposed to agree to his proposition ;
and therefore, though he regretted it, he felt bound
to move as an amendment, that the *Bill be read a
third time this day six months.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said,. that the
report of the Committee was extremely favourable
as to the manner in which the duties of•the
were performed. The office was not altogether a
sinecure, though he admitted that the emoluments
of the office had considerably increased within a few
years. The fees, hqwever, were very small, and
every one•mtist admit that it was of great import-
ance that the documents kept in this office should
be carefully preserved and arranged., The Arch-
bishop of Canterbury has always .had the power
of appointing three lives to this office. That was
all
.that was now required. One of the lives had
dropped, and the individual now filling the see of
Canterbury had as much right to fill up the vacancy
as any gentleman had to put a third life in a lease
which he was granting of a part of his private pro-
perty.

Mr. C. W. WYNN understood that a pledge was
held out that all offices in which there was no duty
to perform should be abolished • after this year.
The present Bill was intended to continue a
sineciire of 8,600/. n7;year, for a third life. The
fecS could not be reduced nor the office abolished
%luring the lives of three persons. If the present
Bill passed, the emoluments were a .great deal-too
high, they were larger than those Cf•any•situation in
the King'S gift except that of Lord Chancellor. It
was probabte.that a young .life wottld, be'Appointed
and in that case, the emoluments might amount to
16 or '20,000/. before that life was run ont. He
strongly recommended the adoption of the Course
suggested by the Hon.: MeMber'for Aberdeen, that
the three lives migkfnow be put in the patent, but
tkat a reservatien•shoold'he Made; giving Parliament
the'-power of;#liplishing the.OffiCeor
,redueing.oe
fees. He very relUctantly opposed • the passing
of but conceived the fees were altogether
disprePOrtioned, andwerelikely to be muchlarger.
Dr. _,CSHINGTON agreed with the .principle
laid down by. the Right Hon. Gent. (Mr. Wynn),
that when the fees of a public office were too large,
Parliament ought • to• have the .power of reducing
those fees, or of abolishing, the ottttre. But he was
not convinced, by what was Said; that'the Bill now
before the House militated against that principle.
A great deal had been said 'abeut the large:emolu-
ments of the office, and he did not say that it might
not be expedient to reduce those fees. • He.did not,
and he hoped lie never would, abandon. the princi-
,ples. of economy on which:all public offices. should
be conducted, but he could bear testimony that
the. business, and duties •.of. this • office- were
conducted with the greatest satisfaction to the•pub-
lic, :hid that the duties- required to be' perfernied in
that office demanded. the 'greatest attention from' the
officer: It would be' right for the HOuSe to 'know
in what manner the forther ArclibishOPerijoed the
patronage of -the ()Kee. The 'Archbishop had
the power . to grant the: office to .three lives
at, a time, and when one .•life dropped off, . it
bad .been customary • for the. • other • two te:sur-
t-ender their interest and take a new grditt: On

the present occasion, however, the patentees found
some difficulty in surrendering their rights from
settlements connected with their family affairs, and
the present Bill was only intended to give the Arch-
bishop the power of tilling up the vacsntjife
without requiring the patentees to surrender their
rights. There was not the slightest inconvenience
to the public in this course. If the Bill was re-
jected, the patentees and the Archbishop would come
to some arrangement, and three young lives might be
substituted, by which the public interest so far
fi om being advanced,would undergo deterioration. On
every principle of justice, and considering what was
due to the individual who now held the See of
Canterbury, he thought the House should consent
to the passing of this Bill.
Dr. PHILLIMORE could not concur in the ar-
guments of his Hon. and Learned Friend, (Dr. Lush-
ington) a Committee of the House had decided on
the abolition of the office of Registrars of the Ad-
miralty, the Delegates, the Appeal, and of this _Regis-
trar. ihe'three Offices before named were übolished,
but nothing was done with this office, in consequence
of its . involving vested rights. 'rule office was a
complete sinecure, and by passing the present Bill
the House would only he perpetuating it. It was
like granting 13,0001. a year, which was the amount
of fees received by this office, and five ethers de-
pendent on it, for ever. He thought that the
Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Home
Department ought to give his attention to this sub-
ject, as it was closely connected with the adminis-
tration of justice.
The'SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that the
fees of the office had undergone no increase in amount
since 1734, though the amount increased, because
there was a greater mass of business. The subject
came now incidentally before the House, and he
asked whether it was fair under sfich circumstances'
to make a stand. for the condemnation of an office,
which the House had not agreed upon abolishing
directly. From the time of Elizabeth, it had been
calculated, that the three lives to whom .this
office was granted, existed on an average for
fifty years ; each incumbency of an Archbishop
however, only existed .twelve years, so that there
would- be four or five Archbishops before it came to
any to grant this office, unless the course now pur-
sued was continued, of filling up every life as it
came in. The Bill now. proposed, therefore, only
equalized the advantages which the Archbishops of
Canterbury derived from their patronage of this
office.

Sir JOSEPH YORKE said, that in 1810 the
Committee had reported that this office ought to be
abolished, and it wa►s one of the most extraordinary
things in the world that this House should never
attend to the recommendations of its own Committee.
An Hon. and Gallant General, Sir A. Hope, talked
the other day of 'poisoning • the minds of the people
when something was said of saving the public
money, and carrying into effect the resolutions of
economy. He would tell the Gallant General how-
ever, and the whole United Service Club (if he might
beallowed to call them so) thatt they should haven little
of his oxalic acid, and something might be done in
carrying into effect the resolutions of Committees of
the House. The House should stand by its acts, and
accede to the recommendation of its Ccmmittees,
wherever it was possible.

The House then divided—. •
For the Amendment
Against it B3
Majority —34
The Bill was then read a third time. Upon tile
question that the Bill do pass,
Mr. HUME proposed a clause reserving to Par-.
hatnent the power at any future period to abolish the
office without giving compensation to time parties.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL objected to the
clause, because he censidered it adverse to the prin-
ciple of the Bill.
Mr. CARTER supported the clause, because he
thought the principle of the Bill was against the I e-
.commendation of the Committee appointed by that
House.

. Sir J.- YORKE asked upon what ground- could
that House reduce the half-pay of officers, when
they agreed to a Bill ‘vbieh gave 13,0001. per
annuin to persons who did their duty by deputies.—
(Hear, hear.)•
The HonSe then divided— •
For the Clause 5O
Against it •••• 74
Majority 24
The was then passed.

Mr. LEGH KECK presented two petitions
from the occupiers of land near Loughborough, and
another place in Leicestershire, in favour of the One
Pound Note circulation. •
JUDGES' CHAMERS.

Sir JAMES SCARLETT presented a petition
from the Attornies practising in the Courts
Of King's Beira and Common Pleas, complaining
of the insufficiency of accommodation for the public
and the profession at the Judges' chambers, Ser-
geant's-Inn, Chancery-lane. The rootus were stated
by the petitioners to be no more than 14 feet square
and 7 feet high, and to be dark, dangerous, and un-
healthy.

Mr. HUME bore testimony to the statements con-
tained in the petition, and, added, that in no country
in Europe were there such inconvenient places
for administering public justice as the Cham-
bers occupied by the Judges of the laud. Chance
took him to Serjeant's Inn, and he there saw Mr.
Justice Bayley sitting in a dirty little room, about
seven feet high and fourteen feet square, crowded
to suffocation 'by between four and 500 persons,
He thought that better accommodation should be
provided, the more particularly when it was noto-
rious that'srich. might be had at a trifling ei-
pence. At the time he expressed surprise that
the Judges should consent to execute their high
offiCial duties in such places, but he was told
.that the Judges had made a representation to the
proper quarter on the subject, and the' representation
was not attended to. He wished the Right Hon.
,Secretary of State for the Home Department would
-visit a Judge's Chambers during business hours, and
he had no doubt that the reitilt.of that visit would
be the providing better accommodation.
Mr. Secretary PEEL—After the description of
those Chambers given by the Hon. Member for Mon-
trose, he (Mr. P.) did not feel anxious to make the
Visit, but lie Ikad no difficulty in saying that such ac-
commodation was riot suited to the elignity of the
Judges. He did not know what the Hon. Member
meant by saying that it was notoridus that better
uccomniodation 'could be .procured at, a moderate
expenee.
Mr. HUNIEWhat* he meant was-, there was
ground In the immediate nlighbyirpids,rdiof
Inn, upon winch I niii,:ehariabeKis :might be erected,
slid "which. ground he had'lieen told could be pro-
Cured at a reasonable,p*e,
Sir j. SOAR:LEW observed, that
.the . rooms
Were really only seven feet high, and there were many
attorneys known to the profession, who measured, he
believekinore than than that number of feet in their
own height.--(A laugh.)--'--He did not mean to say -
any
thingigaingt-the interests of the Master of the
Rolls, but there 'was a 'garden close to Sergeant's
Inn which he' believed to be quite useless, and upon
which very eligible' Chambers might be greeted..
Mr.llAßVEYeXPress.ed his confidence that the
public, would gladly consent to any expenditure, for
the purpose of providing 'better accommodation for
the Judges, and the suitors of the Court who attended
Chambers.

Sir J. YORKE took occasion to complain of the
unfinished state of the Courts in Westminster-hall,
and the averuie4 leiding to 'them. lie felt that Ilk
nose was frequently eadangered, by the odour which
attacked it at the entrance to Westminster-hall,
be.petitioU'wa'g then ordered to be printed.
Mr. FAKE piliented a pith* frOm the Mer-
chants and
.others of Lyme Regis, in favour of One
Pound. Notes. , -

Mr. M. A. • TAYLOR moved for a return of all
sums of money:paid by.the Commissioners for -set-
• tingf:Fieneh Ctaiinst to the Comtrilislonetird WoOds
and Forests, stating dates of the warrants, theitffikieet
eieh'warratit; and by • Whom au ttlariied. The.

Hon. Member observed, that he abstained from
making any remarks upon this s-2bject, until another
opportunity ; because •he understood that no oppo-
sition would be made to the !notion.

The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR then gave notice of his in-
tention to move, on Monday next, a vote of censure
upon the appropriation of moneys of this description,
without the consent of that Housv.