The Sun.
London, England, 1817-04-29 00:00:00

LISBON. MNSION.

Mr. LAMR►TON postpo►►ed his motido on this
*object, in consequence, as we understood him to

say, .of Abe reytes; of a Noble LOrd, till Tuesday,
the 6th of May.

ritAtms ummt WRITS OP ERROR.
Sir S. Rostur.v,on rising to present a petition
that coinolained 'of the difficulties and losses in-
cidental to theyeedvery of, small debts,
,t bought it
necessary to state, a ciicumstance which was
yvorthy of the 11;0:Ocular consitteratiott of the
House. The -enormous. amount of expences to
which a creditor Might be put in trying to recover
debts of no very large amount, was hardly to he
believed ; for when the defendant got hold of.a
nefarious practitioner, the creditor might be
ruined. He would stare a fact ,which had come
to his knowledge, in illtistration of the circum-
stance. It appeared that a franked letter had been
sent, addresseil generally to the prisoners in the
Gaol of Liverpool, but . being overweight, they
had refused to receive it, and it was sent back,
The contents of this letter had been made known
to him, and they turned out to be as follows :
A person, who called
,' himself an Agent to the
Insolvent Debtors' Court, had sent a circular to
the prisoners in the different country prisons for
debt, offering to sue out writs of Elaheas COrpus
for them, and remove them to the King's Bench.
Amongst other adVice„with the,reading of which
he should not trouble the Liouie, this paper told
them, that whet) their creditors proceeded to get
judgment against them, clieyshoidd order their
Attorney to search the Final „Judgment Office, and
have with him the Writ of Error ; this would put
the plaintiff to a great expence but it. they
ivished to harass him still -farther, they-should
make the writ returnable in Parliament, which
would cost the plaintiff one httudred pounds, find-
the defendant only one guinea, it 'went On to.
inform him how be might, for 241. 15s,- put the
creditor to an expence of .3.13/. The
Gentleman proCeeded to descant on the, evil. of
Writs of Error, anct adierted to certain abases
which had been detected .andretnedied' in Appeal
Cases, suggesting that the, same method of having
two Barristers to certify, before. the writ .t'Vas •
issued, would be the means, of , puttirrg an .end to
the evil so jostly_compLiined Qt. '
Mr: , LITTLETON said he had a paper given to
him towards the close of the last. Session, pre..
cisely similar to that described, by the lion. Cien'•
`tlernan, but had nu oppot'timity of doing any
thing 'on. the subject.
,lie heartily, wished- the
ifousetwould take up such a gross aptl scandalous
abuse of the wise intentions of thelaw.
The petition*, which was from certain persons,
inhabitants of the county of York,
,sheaving the
kisses and injnries they sustained in trying to re-
eover annuli debts, and playing the interftnenee:
of, the 00use, 'was then presented, read, 'and or-
dered to lie on thetable. • •
PPi't 71411 LOAN.
•,
Mr. BLAKE said, he rose merely :to ask the
'Right Hon. Gentlemen, whetherix was his inten-
tion CO extent) the provisions of his plan for the
relief of the labouring Pnor to-Ireland, lie said
he did not mean to anticipate the disetissiOn' Of II
the subject ; but he was extremely anxious that •
to measure from which lie expected so much pubs
lie good, should be extended to that Part or • the
United. Kingdom ? •' .
The CHANCELLOR of the ExcHrowitt had no
hesitation in saying, in answer to the titles-
tion'put by the Honourable Member, that it
his intention to extend hiS plan equally to all parts
of the 'United Empire.
Lord PAUCtR3ToN presented' a petition on the
subject of Tithes, from the Master and Schblarti
of the University oLCambridge, which was read
and ordered to lie on the Table.

A number of petitions against Private Bills, and
on various subjects which could not be heard,
were presented by Sir James ShiilV, Messrs. Fin-
lay, Coke, anti 'other Gentlemen. One 'of them
Was front the Market Gardeners of the Parish of
bleworth, stating the grievous oppression under
which they laboured from the present system of
Tithe Laws.

• CATHOLIC PETITIOMi.
Sir H. PARNELL said, be rose to present a reti-
tion from the Lipman Catolies of Ireland, which
solicited the favourable attention of the House to
their peculiar condition under .the Penal Laws. It statest,that they had taken every oath of fidelity
and allegiance, and they referred':to the dijerent
Acts, 'of the Legislature of Ireland for repeated
proofs of their loyalty, notwithstanding which
they still' remained under the effect of. the pe-
nalties, by reason of. their. conscientious ad-
berenee to the. religion of their forefatbers..--
They had np sinister object to obtain. Their
criq object . was avowed, and they Orilyed the
House. to take it into. their favourable con-
sideration. There was another topic which
from its great importance, be felt it necessary'to
touch upon. The .Chlilll•which.hall been set up
about securities had been the repeated eime of
the failure of their object, as founded-on,the sub:,
jeCt of the Elections 'of the Irish Bishops. It
'mast be' remembered that the Catholic Bishops
bad, iti 1808, declared it inexpedient ,to Make any
alteration in this subject, and they were followed
in this opinion by the laity. BUt now so great a
cluinge bad taken place, that the Irish BiShops no
longer agreed to this, resolution, but had made
every as rangensOnt to meet all objectionte Tirey
fitid !,,rated that they were anxiously desirous to
conciliate all opinions, and obviate every objec,
tion that could be made to their pretensions: Ile
trusted 'the sentiments' of the petition would he;
considered as the declaration on the part of the
Catholics of Ireland. 'lt was couched in tupderate:
and •troper lisnguage. , siotiid state- 111 What
the. p an of domestic nomination .consisted, The
Catholic Prelates recommended on, a vacancy ; but
that • Bishops; were,. uht
,obliged,to agree to the no-
mination. It blot heed,propose(Lto-procure-from
the Pope a.Conconint, to snake no appointrilint but
iihat should he presented to him... ,".I.leY O.ficred
to bind themeelves by oath, that none,bnt .a Oft-
•borivsuNect 411 this realm sltosklil be chosin
Fir a 4411 pp, 'and that 4,04)04 sveni.
snake, any attempt. to nvertmn,the .civil or cock-
''eonstitsrt ion , +ol"'to' disturb propertris
settled by law. Au eminent pet*outtge most k
the cotsfideoce of. the' Pope had declared, that be
would not oppose, this plan. 'ft testi also itroposett
to ie`ein:e. tat no persona should exercise the.olOts
ofEl4ctors who Astra not _natural horn subjects.
He should (not enter into any arguments on tide°
interesting ;matter at present, but he hoped the

Muse would take it into their serious conFitlept-
tion, and come prepared to give, a decision-on-the
motion about to be made by-his Right Flon,Friend.
He had every reason to believe; that it would be
found no objection would be made by the Ca-
tholics, which Parliament would think proper to
oppose.

General MATTHEW declared he had never offer-
ed himself with more pleasure to the Miti-se--thaii.
on the present occasion. The system of
,modera-
tion and conciliation displayed by the Catholics,
would, he trusted, he now likely to become the
order •of the day. This great and vital question,
which had for so many years occupied the atten•
(ion of the House, was now, after all the anxie-
ties and labours it had occasioned, likelyto come
to a successful issue. The Catholics were aware
of the able and upright part (alien by the Noble
Lortl (Castlereagh) in their favour on all occa-
sionsbas well in the Cabinet as in the House, 110
be now was sure, that with such support it was
almost impossible they could fail of success.
would_ clear away all p.!rty spirit, and if, the friends
of the question were so happy as to arrive at the.
Committee, every thing would be done. Eleven
years be had sat in that House, and had deemed
it his duty, on all occasions, to take part in that
great and vital question, convinced (hat on it
.pended, not only the peace and happiness of I: e•'
land; but the strength and security tlit-Em-
pire. All the friends of the question asked for.
was not emancipation for the Catholics, but for a
Cormnittee, that they might show they had a just
rigii(to portieipate in the benefits of the .Consti-
t talon. Ile knew it was the opinion of the
Cu-
t•hatics, as it was his. own; that lifeless that was-
said oftthissuhject the, better7--(Langifter),77-fnr.
I any further debate on it most not only become
u.tylvss, but injorinits. lie would, therefore, not
•figirin:trotible the House till they .got into the
Coormittee. was happy to statc.that Atte Ca-
thotice 'of luLland were actuated by.a full deter-
tnin,it ft) lay aside all party 'spirit, .earl. that
their principle- should be:only:that:of conciliation
and aceommodat ion, ,as, far as the Catholic reli-
gion vviruld alltrw t henl;tp 0.,. He sincerely hoped,
that no aeents factionwould he found in the
House to iwing on at!diri a religions controversy,
and revive the. old,stiniea about the hloody times
of Henry..and bloody Mariy, end that the House
would no longer waste-their-time. iii li..tening- to
tedious end ;useless speeehei....--(Lierghter.)—Six
millions of ilegra,ded'CattOtics were nosy-looking
Hp. cp them forli anikhe country: expected
that th,er would rnake• themselves• musters of the
ittbj.ect-'before they cattle to decide on -what was
demanded. by,: circnmstances., The 'titular Arch-
bMops:, of Dublin and .Cashel, Dr. Murray and
Dr.: Everett, had been deputed to' this country,
folly,tpraliiieil to give, every infOrtnation.., He was
authorised to state, by those Bishops, that they
were rendy-tO, give every security, as far as do.
Mestic nomination went, and this ought to satis-
fy the thostfasticlions. The Hon. General, after
ridiculing as a bugbear the appyeheasion of any
interference on 'the part of the Pope, expressed
his hope of witnessing-the emancipation of his fel=
low-countrymen. ' - ;
Mr•..tVanaga declared that he did not partake-of
any of that intolerance alluded to by, the Hon.Gene-
rat., Nobody was more anxious than himself that
every civil right should be extended tothe Catholics:
cOuld,bear testimony' tp the, great merits of
very many individuals of that body, with whom
he.,was 'acquainted. But his objeCtion `was not in
any degree founded on private charicter.diefonnd
it his painful duty to object to the proposition
that would. he; matte, .from a complete conviction,
arisinglrom Fong and .deep, reflection .on die sYs.!
tern itself, He did
,not think it would ever be hie
fate to hear ' the question of securities for the
Constitution agitated in that Hquse. AO, such '
question should I)evtir' entertained in that
Honse, It was his opinion, that 'this
.question
could not have any. other effect than that of
creating an. incipient-revolution, ,and that by cori-
ceding the prayer of the petitions, .the HOnse
woolti,:he doing nothing' short of suhierting the
Protestant settlements in Ireland, This painful
coAvictioti hdd !hikught Rim into the Hotiit„. and
it would sustain bin) in opposing the question on
all 'Occasions. The Hon. and Learned Gentlernan
then entereit into a -long detail of the oviginal
question respecting the securities, tracing it Irony
the
i Bishops
year
ilipip7,o;n,
Bc6risti,t raasntitei dattihtehOpinions otfunt that
• r
Most of this pan of- his. speech wits
from the conversation that was Maintained at the
time in the House. :

Mr. BLAKE observed, that be did not rise to
defend•the 'conduct oi; principles (if
hid, Cotisti
tuents, whose names ere sphscribed to theti-
rims now pre:4l'4'4A. by the Hon. 'flaroriet, butp be
rose to defend the character arid consistency of:
Parliament. The llistise had 'been told :by the.
.lion. and Learned MeMber (\lr; Webber), 'that;
by concedipg the prayer. of the, petitions, or ra-,
ther by consenting to they.
would tie iloirigan act that would umotlutp. to a
subversion of the- British Constitation ;
yet the
Mouse would recollect, that Parliament bad al
ready acceded to the justice -end policy 'of that.
measure; and the only question now to be 'decided.
was us :to the nature and extent of those sec"-rities, which' it would 'be prudent to .etioex as a
condition to the grunt. - Originally tire. Catholics
themselves were tmanimonsin Veiusing to accede
to any.ecclesiabtleal securities,- alleging that' their
Dallis of, alleginnee ought to be seffieleot ; but
more dellbeiUtion had titogitt thein to alter. this
°pinker, And they now. concurred, in.offering se.
curity ; brut as;, to the. nature of. their securities
they differ, for while op. the one side a large "par-
t LOU of the. Homan Catholics
.bad.. 4103441 LIAO
domestic nomination_ tvottltl effectually prevent
the interfetence of ' foreign' authority, on
..the
Other side it Was contended, by a highly respectk
ble part of the Catholicsi- that the- measure of a
Veto sboeld be enacted. He deferidedthose who
ohjee'ted to jlie yetd:,oll,Col)Sicintions principles ;
but he ituplored the House to legislate as became
them, Itrid;:thereby put' an 'end to the discussion of
it,q(estion, which was used, es a peg upon_ n'hich
to hang inflanimatory arid irritating speeches.
-The petition' wits then' 'brotrght. op read--.. On the question that it be laid on the table,
Sic .lo.tiN'Nicuot. said, he rose to enter his pro-
test against two positions assumed by the Hon,
Gen'

tlerno,, ts— L.

4icnipitit:cioitsectiisitrtectier:itiloli
c(infioeitilt
olaildwer
riiissveoeutitticht,reeitethdri securities.
safely made, he should be as'sincerely dispoelll
as much rejoiced as any man to agree to there
lint be must protest against whatever arroe
iie apprehended I
His opidion wits
or assertions might tend t• ul•
tocheelducllt:nstcitsehisl:ici°4l4nslccitildi
the opinion that the friends
stances of Europe since the last L.;essiott were'
such as to place this question on a more feel
Catholics,
Mr, %V. Smsx
able footing than it had stood before,
quite tile reverse.- -I'beeireu
The petition was then ordered lie on 0001,
ti
on the same subject, front certain PeTsuns, neli
carrying this questil
ford.. It prayed that domestic or
stif
in I
heocsaoittllnhteicsrooste tolvialreisvietctkt aiipdt,tstij
be
.held- as sufficient security tor the 10,,Yell!
attachment of the Roman Catholics, tie l'u:
abstain
.from any argument on the Subject 11-r
sent.
e petition was brought or, ~.-. of the Call
to lie on the table. fife prig
Mr. LAMBTON 1110Ved an AddreSS ta
Regent, praying for an account of all sadttl
e,mUlunients, &c. enjoyed by Thpl4lll9 SY,lql,3lii
q. while acting as hiaMejesty's EnvoY""4,
''lister to the Court of Portugal io it3'
Agreed to. , c 0
read, and oolee,
§ir.R.". FE9OUSSON presented a Iletite!i
numerouss body of inhabitants of Datifernlitn'ti„
`e"4lautl, praying for a Itetorm Ur Yorl.l°
Alter it had beertrend, • - ' '-' , to of ll'
Lc. .
)111 Coc tr norm , praised the Cl,
.-Ikelit ione 1 s as a had y. of..persons..cxollll°Yre ,101
fulfilment 01 every moral duly. 'll4,i"ao
nulaeturers,.and,he am ibuted their,deor,°,oo
entirely to the heavy I,axation under tvdoccti,
loboured. M long as pensions and doe jot
tinned to be the rew;101 of the servile
rested, so long would this distress coalin'tft'i,,il
held' 'lle plan of the Chancellor ot. the 3)E,';'0101
to be totally illutleg littti: lir :11144 141, apt
People. Utriess the !loose' were folEl4‘t,"_che
telleruii lie)
(I,,vt. 0
toillcel buexci tit:::ll,liiecii,e tatiti,p,
is:,llletil,l,l,o`l,
isitlatislcliiistd
fifty , millions to relieverthe peorle: ,
_is of ..
most ultimately come :our of the pa"'
Pc±q)le themselveS. SUch a Tlicatioas
I , „„,. 01(0.,,,,A°
temptible and, futile; and ,topless .r,,,,nstir.
beoet,nitnnte,oreiveewdeirne rienvtiiivsectrl,:wainnadteth, ose bor''',,
off that. were bringing us down' vie 51)0001/iii.:74!,,
dreadfully toriform state of the country
0, ,
~ulei„
be elects all by, a reduction
1111111,1,,,i0
rest of the national debt; All orlier att.e 1',,a0
sters r..,,LE
nnworthy at consideration, and .03' ,;-(410,1
find, 'within these two years;or Perb.a,rtsl:l(eP,lll
House..„ met ,gain,,thtit this.' vent tniF a
~.. n 0,,, s,
by a _reduction of taxes. awl ioilio'Y „iiitl
. ' for to' if
J'aiiirrlrlile:ioerlitttittlisstni a.relaxgliale'sisss'i)viet'ouhet:taitaPirldlsol:t°telliee.l‘ni ::::einieti di
Itirtn:oil:rdie.e:relleiad'isie:s:tssiru'is:i c:'l'ret:' ci
I'
,tic
ili
lialli:1::::
ti,w:andllileiii.pvGwven!eieNaFnEreaLitLifloderrCpttrlF:ticinyddosrLtri:.l)ll::eit;iiciti
jtobliof
jaitfill,6,r.!
iiilraonlpeonstidOoll:lllcotOmibneg gel i IIY -°1 • l or ')°--f Slit°lcllll
"" public faith.—(.llear, hel?" /,,i'oble Via to
likely
to make a aerie'filnlus
country. . tied 0
ttilliel;-re-ssio.n, cn
a
1 country.'
inte ird
Lori
bring I. COCH LUNE replied,. I I)°(iiii sabieCti cibil
forward a prppositioo o'l to say vil, 011!
1110 would be, the proper. tone
ado
fed
tvil
uch a proposition 'eht nut'• be 4(1 P
8 . inln N 0,,,,
any unjust sacrifice. ~ .1 tbe',ti
Tiord MILTON" us as Veil "•••
f:, who Ci'j 10
~,,,eli 001' ,IsIII
Lordottli '" 01,
"i"jarli of this. kind, obigh cio be liste`,[i
severely censirred, and ought 11" t ,reater rtie'd 0
Was not the only pogo, Ipt be
;IrT:tlt;swianii:tycitttirartilvlittly a4lannllll-Ibe i:: ly
jell- t
deelisOil
oi i
coo.elji
he fundholder would have inncl iiii ono
PI") of, if any proposition of ' t 0
seriously,entertaided. „„,, .a . most .1
Mr...iv...5.1411'TH thought this w--
loot, ,
proper mode_
,of argtriog, such
ost.goil'goote
wished to se4 it taken up no its _ 0,014 l' .:,„
whetrever this should happen,ll _be 011
hesitation in delivering
ed of it. , • lered to
.The Petition was then 01(
table. the opinion
lie
0,

tr,:eoes)::::l4.eebrle
jtviaitAitis::l;,6D:l:ol:::tilcellcrte:royri 'tf.:iisile:SlniSteTe°,lA'.lo4Pet
isYrilic115:1°101":111.1.1c,41:11:1;.iliee e (11 tgltll
i
tieing refused used their license. Ile 1"tc"-c!ttliliutil
itra,..4110.):
eet
tc:itieteal
:LSI
usto:o.cs iftteo,itiirey, ,1N1,11,1
itieill
iiilii:lisinitii,iii de de
ri.:mr:'sl
if;:i
cir,llll),e,,,,,,teci'l,,'l:::ii::iiit,:libeciiirteifri!,llo.lir!
coitiiefosrresitttath n
rim not be heard front a confabion ~,i.atoo:L,.
2e added, that he cer tal 1 ily 01" °i'e .° socio,Y ,'
atu Been interrupted ; hut if the pioviioll"ico, bela
II of anntiastitlinrteiertsot iui,f)ttcirfteliie, %! itlitev of '„,
, „ teace..-i
measur-. • :bed 1
1, deer ,jo
'l' ii
_ •
~ e petition was then read. 0 ,ola tq 4
lelety to have been instltated intiii['oriii;te
latterly,, held Us mestingsto 11,°!tio pliEd,'id
rY, nntPlillirils)°toserielld;:,tiibio'i'lgi;Pbsjol.t-icti)1:1:,,,:;1;11114
not admit of ohservation,behlg9)6` ti
tiotlrroo)
'clan). . if '
character in thealinire4 S'l."t'nu„igeelottiftilf
former Act for preventing Setlttl"'"' tl)cie' 40
.‘lpplied for a liceoe to continaeci,eopotidit
vfh icIL was immediately gra 0 t eff . PitY,ccaielli
utl tbei! body, they' bad applied for
.4:iicti ho t
-le present Ac', an.,the 15th ;Psi/. riafullsccli
refined by the Magisi rates asscuip eviodog Ileift
Pt 'the Old Bailey, two of tbefoor viti oil pc.i,
ititi'sec,A,:stion7l trinnTe'rle'llbet-s°, Pcl):o(4To:etoi,n,rl,l;:vh.-
on the House toe 00) interferen4oceolini`,, Jiq
al tf:ey should tliink fitted to t'c 'id oat , sra''
1, Igo cc' tof' al
.:_ Mr.
.C. (;tiA,r4T spora, ~, ~.,0 ,tv t
i_inctly heat(' in the Gallery. "'olio' 0' .t Ole
to bear testi'. ti c rt.t,p,cto pav
bovy to I ,to lia lit°
°limier: il, ouivui,
, tpui ti's 11 iit ' 0
perSolllllly. fill TO
feelitit;,...ed ' Afro
like 5 (s:itri ellsal * :VI tiilol3l-cEListi3lici)isi) (.11" er:ll:.v,:iii-lc.(1 :::cattl
li:':
the present, It hat; he to trot "oot
Bill lately passed, that it we°. 0,614
, .ttf.P
'-- i,f the :NOV'

•
• lintysr $n cottfi,!e4 :hum
oil exercised so as toxbeck the gteaOti
'Keaadmitted it was al-
illipossil I
•ven to sit
t se stick} a constcuction
1p,1!
"gi therooo.
Act as hail been put upon it
4kltates in- the case in 'question. He
4)±rev.er it,was now,high•Jinte that
Itl state what were their sentiments
c);.
"b !vet. 'mot now mean to "In-
d 111" e" Alkighttrates who had so overstep-
' "ce , kmd 4s he thoi,ght (heir duty,, or
that, twey tneant to transgress the law
'lel certain cireinustatices, 'persons in their
were likely to give alaw that Conhtritc-
„.miley ttionglit would be mast. agreeable
ill opposition to that which
e tlietMed tO thew by their more sober
uld ask if a la •v like this ought
left tc► the discretion of the,Nlagistrates
'(,,(lebrated llteat rimiember what ware he.words
Lord'Alansfield on the subject
i( sc~"tit
eittriisted to Nfirgi,strat es. " The
t!cisetl in a Court of- Justice,"
9,4 !` a discretion grounded in law,
tide, and tint by lin:flour, %.vhich
decisions come to, to he arbitrary,
'4'11." lir: the 'present instance,
ultaliett place he maintained.to have
11 ,I!.!ite, and 'thanciftti,--and calcu7
th'e bei! pi:ivilegei of 'Englishmen in
're liot,properlv 'nut in the first itt-
ttist,(l Niinisters,.would now state
(! heel' totally inistinderstood by the
It • this weile not done; he' (Sir
4,441(1,th-en
give: notice of a motion
)fitiv; ill to explain the said
nothing 'of what had been
Alines, but from the Statement
il,ljejti"o, and thtref could
pot-
l(►j un the propriety of "'heir conr
I.4irtg what reasons they Might
yWith the' Society.in lite" i°",
\41,1, takilig rile alleeatitot cont4hloo
"s foam! it, that if the,Ai'lgii* 11:!'nlIt 'the" Acr tv,is intencl,d to put
Rtr
•they had misunder-
wished thy :exercise of the
Vi'l9l,lgiitrates (ob' regulated by
r Lirri that 8111)-
Hfl
4,1 quoted by the 'Hon Blt curt
WnS intended to,leayel.‘‘ it h
l'll-0Y passed, wits only: giV"l I"
~;„"11":isro! enabling them to Wl' (I°`"'
which %vete the
• etton, and, not to put down all
tvliattver
ignorant of •the Inv rit. of tile
(Nett 70,1 t lidsd tallew from t.ie lei
' i hoped 'Ministers would think
ii~r9rder 'to Asper' sin. what
• Pirc.''•lo, 411 the MagistrersT ;„,.; "1 I,' • 411..4 if t 'Pliti'l perSODS OOt eti. y
(v:redt,s'►• the lueatts they sAight
t)v the sumo
ittr„ •
)e
.oppi,•,se ,
tv
Vl4[l tt: "I"I I V. some me.vora ought
• lacveut. tire ..At being thus mis

. •
,i,hzto
•
io
Feitot.thrmixitt ministers: could not
;
tiiill'iLlit''''li to account for 'heir conductt , s
hr,'',4 ,kt tl,-:, l' Ive ), their own hen's.' 4
44,7 lIT
i''Y tlirtll)attenArci.. This might Serve
kt. to lie iii
.I.'hj•l'"g'it:;ft,'''v emulous theY.'"4— i he
'l'",,,,q.''trt. it discretion which mig 1t
: ''''hie 'll ille 11. 41.. of men like the Right.
:: ril'l'lig,t'llierBBlll)(l‘li... Bait!' tirsi!),reBll:o(litahrlys
6. 4'htild p-ottl Aiii.ten), tins ( Ise
111 I.t 4 64fe. It would not be exerted
:}0
%t,,4`,8 hi the case nr"v'br"igit
*boorst
14,) 1"r tnieli men (lie named th,t-n,2_,,...
~,,, rii„ c•• ►
.
Ile' ~,,411 otr I'voitam Dottiville and John
lt. 1, to . i •
no man :It
~ iiii,i
~ .eito the
.Act aS
ciereopan
~,r..)„ th.:l.l.ottglit of doing. and_ • I
k'ltitil'itti,,,
4,:t0.11 which was final, and
ee 7h1,!,!..1
i,it 'ii tilt, kgrieved without a rein ty .0-
;4i 1),,,,1ie 'vita put such a construction
to
I'"lst, 'l4l had occasion to apply
41'94
,Ishiiitert-;;(1,) whom they thus s°Lighttb°eirtleirts:
it'll . ve'. that. ;Ministers would
At "Iltdieation print;. made. as by ki• i
. be . :-
.the
judielal
„9', ~i
ti`:l,l)l*('Svilli where `"` lied in
ti rite,; th,,.,‘, Ila:;istrates were ea.o
~ made
. ' Phi, ''''oninit-tited on the effm -- ..,1
'111; ' At" into
t• for fliug al
ti.N..ett4 „
4_ an ent,,tne
'II now I)vett
liti'.ttil.,,,,,,i'i" I which hatt:ll
Aittl4l4,.‘iii il4 the seminaries of instruction,,.
16134 l'
stthser‘ient to
.0:41 lie, -Itiirtietthirir tillUtteti to the
~104 t
1t,...iy tile 1• the'ptirpost,s
'''te-Chanct.llor of -Cam...
j4it,14114.,1 nveasion„ who, since the passing
1,4241 y r," " slop to thost• debates- which
7F;itit.l,:..'l,lllll()li at that 1/nivel.s43?' and
‘:A.tvitil
.I'' 110 Stiettipt having
It
been' made
Pl'tettee so laudable and so lase-
tih'itit:,...
(-•91 Iv;
11i 48' then read aod ordered to be
;,,I'-',ti,..5,„,- •
,
i'o„.,,,i'S'Ai' IllitmlN6llASl.,
11"'ei ti >i• thiit he hail 'often
i,
,".t.,1 to . ,412 conveyine the etittiplaillts '"''
11i14",,,,
.'"'!lvett; in 0-, - ' '' ' fie now'
L. 1,,,
„t: 0 , lits House.
.. ii,t.
tk,4,
,i.t4111. . I's ttitty :More than evt.l
ii,:tigmoci he beld'itt his hand a Petition,,
,1,1,4tt(i 1Y livorlykthv whole population
ilic't tile
.1:1 "I iitrittittghato, and gave Al,c-IP-
-41 1„4, shockm., d-.t ,:. ' Witht)tit
(eli tier 1:t, .4 , 1, IS rt. sl.es..
~ , ,
Viort 041,„,,,4‘,, ;,. been givell..thtl'll"'""
tt'. lii ,i f.'i signatures in the space (4 4
it
Ptlrt ''' 4'
(13Yfl after t or that 12,000
ICl'll ° it* All "e - b• is
t.' ,i ,11 ti,d, these.were mita Han
ttkkir, eilts y. illitl" care t%lB- taken, that
ill.,t4.ll4:pnitil(l '.lOl .the Ile'titiOn . These'
,1,•1',41`‘,. :hitter brk:on'd '• I • resent -
~1 .Iq, ni tit,
~ •• 1 er‘t as rt.p ,
11: 1.e1,, 41 70;000 individual. TheY
/I't.'ll4' 014(i 13S
"tr(;1-ii)g undet-a degree of
41,v44! 11.1e144iiflicillg to desimir ihe 4%;CrAgC
II ii 111 ht i ,u'ir•!ites for thellisekWVlVe
04t it
liiNt
~'1111)gg in
-44 e pound ; 'the
c'tti,„):t 1,1,',1,x niont.-tWelve shillings;
5),4,411iii- 'tie last two- or three weeks
tit'llUio/,'!iig.Bl.va_ntl fo;irpence. 'fitere:wai
1‘14,, e iit, ,oeelt in -poor.rates, above
'v,,i (,Its',, Ivot,ij,f, ;:' IP pay the seats. 'lids
rNi ilCuppo:,il:),e itiflicittn'ti) .point
. out
t:i,tii e ctiit
~.!,, thit the poor of the
t,1',1,,,ii kx,-1,, ‘til by the issue of aluillion
44; yeilic.l"ec Hills, A slim of near
Illeilitth.‘"11(1 be want td 'Or the
• -• ale, ,•
... • -.-
~.. -
Alt Ile tviancti di,

fore to 11;(,T it expla:otol :o hint el,
couid the poor of Birmioghain mie;-ive from the
portion of the million and a half thist was likely
to fall to their share. Indeed, nothing but some
great, permaoeut and salutary measure could have
any effect in relieving the 113(i011 front its dis-
tresses. The Petition was then brought up, react,
and ordered to lie on the table.
EISEMOSYNARY GRANT OF' EXCH,tQUER 8114 LS.
On the motion of the CHANCRLLOR of the EA,.
CHEQUER, the whole flonse resolved -itself into a
Committee, to consider time propriety of a grant
of-Exchequer Bills, fur the relief of the lahouring
classes of society.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHIiQUBIt then pro-
ceeded to a detail of the measure., but in .a tone
at voice so low that we could do little more than
guess at the drift of his proposals and resolutions,
and arc therefore doubtfel as to time accuracy of
Our statement. The first resolution t.,t he pro=
Roset) for the opinion of the corninitee was,
" Viat Exchequer Bills, to an tonormt not exceed-
ing one million and a half, be advanced to' cet tail)
CoMmis3ioners for Great Britain, to hedistribmo ed
at their discretion towards the relief of the. pool's'
rates, by the encouragement' of industry and
employment of the poor in public avorkS of uti•
lity and li)heries. becurity for repaynient: to
be taken from .the pours'-rates of the districts
an which such monies might be advanced. 1 re-
!And was under circumstances somewhat different
out those of the rest at the Empire, and he
should therefore submit' a second Resolution fur
the opinion of the Committee,'" That time Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland . should
,issue time .sum of
250,0001. Irish currency, from the Consolidated
Fluid of that country (repayable .under certain
securities), for the employment of the poor, in
rite. encouragement of poldie works and fisaertes.!'
On every former occasion of an advance made
by Government towards alleviating the digr, ss Of
any community or district, the advance had been
preceded by inquiries into the nature and extent
of the distress prevailing,.. and of '
the relict re-
quirtd. Under peseta. eircem,tauces, milmap-
pily, such proceedings were altogether utineces:-
Nary, and the house was but too welt
ed with the nature amid' extent :or the :distrait
prevailing, by -time tnitnerOns;Peti- ions dint were
lying otr the•tahle, a , nd' by the labours 'of the
committee of last Session and the present. On
other occasions advances 'had been. made towards
the completion of great liithu a works which- were
likely to' prove, of publielienefit ; but the Irresent
proceeding was somewhat different trom mil/ tied
had preceded it -,;• for mime Commlisiouems were not
only-intrusted with the•distribiithm of money they
wet e th.arg-eil with, and the compli.tion of pehlie
w;-rkt, but 11;0. were ,;Iso to have under their
Consideration the effect which \the works theto--
s'elves Weiold tits niOntent have oti the lahonr-,
int; -class'es ; their 'object., therefore, was of a
6m:unheated nal el•--the utility of the woek, affil
the peospeet of 'benefit to those employed. Timere
were a varlet Tor peblic workS char had received the
snoctiiimeot Parliament, such as barhomirs,.eanals,
roads, amid the like; that languished and stagnated
iron the want of capital for. 'their 'completion
and applications were frequently made to Par-:
!lament by time prionoters of such untkit,akbigs,
10v contci,autlOicoil of the public money. What-
ever aid .Parliament might neow nffoLd, Was to he
•Submitted—to the of. Commissioners
wholly unconnected with Gpveromeor: the sums
advanced were to- be placed with them, and they
would teceiviapplications from Corporations, or
other bodiet eoncethed in p.mblic works,• such as.
roads, canals, ham-hours, bridges; and ale like : and
as it might be' thought • advisable that this:grant
should not be confined merely to undertaking.)
that had, received a Parliamentary sanction, the
fisheries might also be encouraged, and afford em-
ployment to se:inlet' who were now destitute of
any means of support. At all events, much would
be gained it great works of utility or ornatirent
could be brought to a completion, 'without loss
to time public, Of which the example of former
grants, and the interest to he pistil under a proper
security, afforded a reasonable hope. „In Ireland,
where there was not the same facility of lending
money on Government paper, and where great
works were commonly effected,at the public ex-
pence atomic, it might lie, deemed more advisable
to place a sum in time, hands of the Lord Lieute-
nant,. and avoid the difficulties that would 'attund
selection of Commissioners. With respect to
the agricultural portions of the commenity,:•be
had never thought that any assistance -of this
kind could avail to them. Theit necessities were
fur greater than could be embraced by any relief
this sort, and their interests so widely extended,
Ow 'it was hardly poslifile to conceive a case in
Which Parliament could advance' to their assist.
anea..• finked,. he fencred that such au advance
would only haVe time effect of- increasing their
pOor-rates, by making diem constitute a part at time
Wages of labour. On those act:omits, a general re-
lief‘oi the agricultural distress did not form
,a part
of the 'present 'plan, which he thought not likely
to have any.elleo in
,increasing the poor.rges„.....
The amount to be granted to any district on
the, credit of those rates, was not to earteed half
the,-rate, of the limit year, and no advance was -to
be Made untiilhat rate doubled the omount.of the
average of the three preceding years :- but thougli
4ie comild not promise.l gem:111110cl to theogre.
cultural interests, be should have been sorry not
tO have laid -before the House, some Measure Which
prOnliSeil Pconsideritble assistance to a portion of
time nr.iv deprived of 'eteployment.
Undoubtedlythe.,disruess of thos.e dasses),#od of
the manufacturing districts, even frooi -what they
had heard in the Petition presented by the lion.
Gjentlentatt opposite, claimed the Mbst ertOus etten-
lion of the Legislature, end every effort that could
lie.niatte for its alleviation. The distresses ;at Bir7
greatlyoccasioned
minghatn, iOparticillar,lmad . .
by the change, which hard 'terminated the operation
of war. The manufacture al small arms was pecu-
liarly affected by the sntideo IronsitiOn. The ma'
nufacturers had nmncle 3,000,000 stand of arnls itt.a
year. There could, therefore, be nu wonder at
the. cOccis of siich a loss'of trade es had been oc••
'efilimed• Iu looking into the accounts, it ap-
peared that the official 'value of exported steel and
iron iri 1814 was -1;094,0004.1 in 1815,- it :wet
`1,027,000/. ; and in 1816, 1,074,000/.1 The eft-
ported hardware in 1816. Was. 70,0001. odd,
nlinnt tier Cent. short of 1815.

i'Le. real di Oen-titan of trade, it :wrothd appear, was
not in the regular forc;go expOrtlitiOnS, but chief-
-ly arose, from the necessary loss of the manufac-
ture of arms. It was the opinion of many per•
sons conversant with the affairs of Birmingham,
that a temporay relief, by the advance 30,0001.
or 40,0001. would be productive of much be-
befit. Noble examples had been given by indi.;
viduals in the means of relieving the distress bitt
the exertions of private benevolence, however
praise-worthy, must necessarily have. their li-
mits. He bad a strong
_impression of the dif-
ficulties of particular towns ; but there were
many, other places which required attention.—
He had therefore 'thought it More advisable to
subunit a resolution couched' in. general term 4,
which Might embrace all cases of real difficulty,
with a view to guard against error and'oversight,
and to render the application of relief as extensive
'aim' beneficial as
,possible. The measure, how-
vvr, as to its efficacy, must depend considerably
on details. He must add, that he felt it Would
be presumption' in him to think of.proposing the
measure at first, Widen any idea of its being pet.-
feet. He hail only trotibled the House with his
ideas on the subject, and he trusted they would
in due time meet with proper consideration and
deliberation. He .thon4ht that Friday sennight
might be• a proper day for considering the (loca-
tion, or some other day in that week, if it should
seem convenient. He then moved a resolution,
that it was the opinion of the Const»ittee, that
Counwssioners !should be enabled to is:in:
1,400,090/., in, Excheyter Bills, -under Certain
litnitattUns, for• the furtheranee of public works
of utility, the encouragement of the fisheries, and
the employment of the poor, • for a tune to .e li•
mited, seeuri ies being giveo for,the advances.
Mr. Potasotaav did not rise with the view of
differidg from the Chancellor of the txchequer ;
but he, thought the Right Hon. Gentleman haul
made a material omission in the exposition of his
measure, by tot particularizing the mde-for the
re-payment of the advaitert. It might have
escaped his memory to, state more precisely the
nature of the -securities, and the time to be

The CFIAPICELLOR oaf the Exc r. nu nR observed,
that those arri.igements might he' matter ',far
future consideration .1 but he had no difficulty in
Saying, that his view was, that the advances
should be repayable in 1820 by instalments,. it.)
be settled by the .Commissioneta according to, the
circumstances of the eases: -In advant es made tot
the proailaion of send public works, there might
proltadi, he a faytlier extent of time allowed,. Ile
shituld'propose a elmtse to'meet •81111 ell 6ses,'
ing Mn extension of theee yeara mote. It Arasfiti
,intention that Oie rate' of the. Exchequer:lAN
should be as it now is. lie had ,endeavoured .to
follow the mode adopted on former occasions of
advances. As tointhlie.works the Connuissioners
cook! not be called upon, except wheti they ;were
of public utility,.and when security was given by
individuals. That security was most likely tir,he
found among the proprietors of such works or
undertakings.
Mr. Biqa:E. expressed his regret that the night
Honourable Gentleman's plan of relief did not ex
tend to agriculture, which claimed the first con-
sideration of Parliament, and. Tess certainly tie-
serving of" neore attention than either manufacto
ries or public works. For as to the former, they
wotild, mid they ought to :be left to find their
own level, while as to the latter they were gene-
rally more ornamental than useful!. For example,
great sums were expended in Ireland in construct.'
ing grand canals, instead of intproving the-natural
navigation of that country, or in making other
improvements, of which that, long neglected coon-'
try was known to he susceptible. But,the
provemeut of the land ought to be the main e'on-
sideration, and ethe landed interest notoriously
suffered the,greatest, distress both in England and
Ireland. Yet the Right Hon.. Gentleman's plan
evinced no attention to either, although-land, was
lhe source of all our' wealth. Altbough if the,
lauded interest were depressed, commerce mis -of
no avail, and %II our public works. mast becotne'l
comparatively useless..
Mr. 1)1111.14PS contended, that What the filAllll*
facturers wanted was a. atarket 'for their goods.--
This found, their distress; would cease ; h-nt
thought no ,relitt would, be afforded by the pla'n
of the Chancellor nrthe Exehequer dcoied
that the distress arose wholly from temporury
causes, and declared. himself Of. opinion, thdt., in
the present situation of the country, person!,
would not be totind to. step. for Ward to offer
security for . Exchetver; issued which the
!light lion. Gentleman uroposed to require.. Cie
considered the present,plau, if carried into effect,
to he likely to letultOendleiti
•Mr. GREW/ELL wished to'kuout in what.'ihtett'•
'her abet advaneet were.to be made, and sogOested
the expediency of issuing small bills of, 1001.
even -5C This he 'thought would be the meatus
of causing thent,to be More generally diStlibuted
throughout oml:tummy ,
The CIIA:NCLILLOIL. Of the Excitr,Qusa,, agreed
with the'last` speaker that the issue of small hills
might ansWertitany n4efol purptises. 'He briefly
defended the plan.. in reply to the:lion. Gentleman
who had ohjecteit to, .it .{Mr. .Phillips), and sr,
ghed that as un,inconvenieueehmt been,foond,to
arise out of the .intertuediate security required tu
1793 and 1811, none was to be apprehended now,
• Lord ARCRISALD lIAMILTON asked some guts-
t concerning parochial rates-and in Scot -
Lica), and the Chancellor' of the Exibequer g eve
some explanation; .
Mr.. LAMBE was desirous that the measure
'should go to the public as A measure for employ:.
anent, and nor for relief. That should be distinctly
explained, and not left to Vague rumours ; other-
wise vain delusions and prodigality Might be ex-
cited. He supposed the Commissioners would feel
theinselveasbound to take good securities.
ritltials :
might break,,.and yet the parish-rates
might remain liable. Great burdens too ,tnight
fall on landlords, ifs:occupiera made mortgages
without their landlorilti consent.

Lord COCEPANII thought the plan wholly use,
less. The people were borne down by ours, and
cow only be relieved by the diininution of the
National Debt. The advance now to be made lit
One million and a half was contemptible, when tile
Poors' limo amount annually to 12,001),0091.—
lie insisted upon it relief was only to be hoped for

rums diminishing or ennibileting the Nationa
Debt. To v; ipe out the svlo:dc of it won. Hut
make the mono! poorer ; it was quite a del. ,itos
to talk of its being an injury to the eoentry. and rt
his opinion there would be nothing fratelide
such a measure. All other classes bait b. en de-
pressed, a d why-Sloteld not the'nodholder surfer
with the rest of the 'rommitititv ?
Mr. IinNSONBy thought, that to .1, good the
measure mast be quickly adopted He would
them fore throw no obstacle in its pre, t proi.t4ess.
iVhat he had beard this night bad convinced ',inn
that the Honse would not be able to (feeule otl
the merits of the question till the Bill was
brought in. At that time only Could thy suhject
be properly considered, and be would then do it
with the most sincere wishes th•at the elan might
prove as advantageous it was intended.
:He
hoped, however, that because he should not op.
pose the Resolutions or their being reported,: he
would not he regarded as bound to Support the
measure itself, if, alter due consi,ieration':. he
should find that it was not entitled to his i•ippro-
bation.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excontattee thooked
the Hon. Gentlemen for his catolimr, and shonld
not consider the House pledged by this first step
to the ultimate itdoption of his measure.
Mr. PONsoNBY thought that there Mut some.
thing so' agree .ble in the idea of being able to re-
Here the distressed, that it would be.the worst
thing a Member could do to oppose the itair
its pr.,-,..ent e;
Lord sitt.Tosi coositlered it nece•yarr Thar fmth
the House and the country.should molerstei d
plan. Whet had Nitro that evening ts.un he
Chancellor of 'the Excliegoer must iindec,iVe t'
who hooded that the measure WAS distended gesie.
rally for the relief of the comurv. It le.w ap-
peared that It would only relieve per,ons so 4illl.
and as to avail tbemsclvis of any public e irk
carried on in their neightionrhood, and
in which the poor rates had Item raised above the
level of the sane) measure lie slid not thlnk the
intention of the plan Could' be artamed, its mar-
kets, and not capital, ere wanted. The inoh'ey
thus !Tidied would only serve to make
iocur apark!) debt, as the country had a national
one. He recommended that the presets! Resolu-
tion should 'be divided lute, taro part(, in (inler
that whatever portion of it should he ailop t
should pass with the greatest possible toiailimiiy.
Sir toeßTote BUYINIRS was only ail and I hut !he
meesere proposed would not go, ler enough in the
way of relieving the poor.
Sir J. NEWPORT seggested, that n didivulty
might arise from the operation of the power of
Extents -on the part of the Crown, on the pro-
perty of those whti would make theMselves re-
sponsible for the sums lent to ass, ciations iota
parishes; If extents in aid were so formidable to
men velto,stabjected themselves' to them an their
own account, how lunch more so' would it lint
prove to these who would have to incur their pe-
ril for the sake of others. • He iiiiderstood that
one of the • main objects of the me-tame wits to
assist the canal navLation of theeountry. But,
suppose 'that' persons • engaged in a canal shoul/I
apply tor, and obtain assistance from the fund
proposed, the Crown would become then one of
the ereditors of the enneerti, acid iu case it sinnilti
fail,
:would sweep the whole of the money, to the
ruin of.the private creditors. •Ha hoped that
would be guarded against.. 'He Only wished t'o
facilitate, not to defeat the plan.
The CRAM:BLUM of the EXCNRCiURR stilted,
that the danger apprehended by the Right Hon,
liaronet would be found not to exist, as n pr.,Vt-
sion had been introduced into one of the clauses
of the Bill, to prevent:llle Crown from heyitig
more power over the •efferta of any onsttecessttil
co.n.ei a titan other creditors.
Atter a few words from Mr 13"bingtnn, the
Chancellor of the Exchet)tter, and Mr. Hall,
Mr. LYirrLaToN contended, that the !light
+lon. Author of the filpfl bad assumed two points
to which he was. not entitled. First, that this,
preient distress was Occasioned 'by want tA eapi.
lel, whilst it Was the cOnsequence of want of eni-
ploymeet to render the exissisig capital produc-
tive. Secondly, that retell raid linens COuld-ea.
Idly be procured. If roads were undertaken,. they
would not pay. It would tre the saltie,Wilh Oridges
410 a canal', As to assisting patishes, when pa. -
HMI Nods-were inAinost a .state of tinnkrintey,
then tky.were. to he taken us seenruy Whtat
sytttpettut by personal seem sty, did its extend to
real oropertvl Hr reared ,his wo,,ltruerave
ills sor3•, unless it cool(' render work Prothictieei
ot make tuarket higher.
111 r, C. GRANT thollOt that the first question
was to ..relieve the,great number of pertons, wird
vere. in danger of actual starvation. This relief
would come better itu the shape of encouragement
to labour, then in that of gratuitous charity. it
would keep op,the moral babits'and the industry
or the people ; at the same time that it would not
ovei load the market by too largely inereasiog the
:meows-.
Sir M. W. -Rinee'Y wished to know, whether,
when money should be lent:to:Parishes for Mite
Wprks,,personal security would be required in ad-
dition to Out of the Poor Rates. He also in-
tittired„ whether the ~Commissioners Who should
have, the application of theninney, should receive
sularies.out of ;the fund itself ?
• ,The cussteet,Lort of the ExCHEMItta was un-
derstood to State, :that personal security would be
resjaired iii addition lo that Of the poor rates. As.
to the second.'.question, in .former cases:Gentle«
men had liberally, come forward without any
/au, to manage die concerns of the poor. He
hoped such conduct would be repeated.
Mr. Bitooostssi objected :to the manner In'
which the money was tolte4pplied. It was in-
tended to set men at work to carry on public
un-
tlerttakings. But what kept. public works at pre-
sans front going on Nor the want of capital ?
was.. afraid it mil_ the want of demand
for such mites. The 1,500,0001. to be thrown
Imo the sit rket would facilitate. loans and ,
bonds to carryon public works, and be more
easily obtained. To that extent only Wtia-
the :metiatire likely to:yield relief, lint not many
persons would be Willing to enter on important
undertakings, especially canals; A few roads and
bridges aright, he wanted; bites the utility of the
former bad unused them tai be< executed even in
the midst of our diffract', very few wink! re.

Otehrtl.or otysr
4 16tota, And exerc
rvilege% of l,1101:
14(t ioTosstl)le t
4,14 be given to
'll ki-1114Aiagislteites
it
114 t,tdok I(t)we
ktiter, should st
77
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