The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-04 00:00:00

feeling, and the consideration of public policy, I think I , amount of pecuniary assistance can be said to be of any
i
can assign reasons which might dissuade you from (very great importance when the principle is admitted.
taking that course, and repudiating all connexion with I will now, with the permission of the Houses proceed
that College. When did your cern xio t with it com- to state the nature of the proposal which lam rm, on
mence ? Under whose authority, and how long the part of the Government, instructed to make.—
has it been in existence ? Why, Sir, fifty years (Hear, hear.) I have already stated that, by the exist-
ago you undertook to maintain a Parliamentary vote for ing laws, the trustees of Maynooth are expressly erne
Mltynooth. You commenced your connexion with it in powered to purchase and acquire land. That power eitts
1795. The reigning sovereign was George the Third ; confirmed by the Act of George the Third. They were
the Minister of England was Mr. Pitt ; and the Secre- nowhere allowed to hold real property beyond
tary of State for the Heme Department was the Duke 1,000/. a year. Thit is the enactment,
but effect
of Portland, who was afterwards the Chancellor of the was never given to it, because the trustees .
University of Oxford. In the year 1795 the Lord- were not nominated, they were never able to hold land.
Lieutenant t f Ireland, Lord Fitzwilliam, called the at- They could not hold land by any other tenure than by
tention of the Irish Parliament to the state of education the lives of the existing trustees, and that land could
there. That was in the critical period of 1795.—(Hear, not pass to their successors. In order to remedy 'that,
hear.) [The Right Hon Baronet read the speech of I propose in the Bill I will lay before the House to .
the Lord Lieutenant to the Irish House of Commons at incorporate the trustees, to make them a corporate lord-
the commencement of the session of 1795, and also a ship, under the name of the Trustees of Maynooth Col-
quotation from a speech of Mr. Grattan.] In that lege, thus giving them a real power and an a
tobility off
_
year the House of Commons of Ireland was told holding land to the amount of 3,0004; that is say, i
that it was intended to t stablish Mae nooth. Lord the members of the Roman Catholic faith are desirous
Fitzwilliam was succeeded by the Marquis Camden, to endow and make a provision for the endowment of
who laid the first stone of the College of Mae nooth. particular 1( unities. I can conceive no objection to
At the close of the session of 1795 the Lord-Lieutenant such a voluntary contribution; and I therefore propose
who presided at the inauguration, who laid the first stone to admit a body so incorporated to hold real property to
of the building, congratulated the Parliament in having the extent of 3,0001. I will next address myself to the
laid the foundation of the establishment of a Roman position of the chief officers of Maynooth. I propose to
Catholic college. In the course of that year the Irish !flake a liberal provision—liberal as compared with the
Parliament passed its first Act—an Act passed by the present stipends of the president and professors. At
Irish Lords aed Commons—without difficulty, with. present the stipend held by the professors does not ex-
out one dissentient voice. The Prelates of the card 122/ a year. Instead of defining what shall be the
Protestant Church were present—the Parliament amount of stipend to such professors, to allocate to the
was exclesively Protestant and yet, at that trustees of Maynooth certain sums, which shall be
period, in that year of 1795, at the instance of placed at the discretion of the trustees, from which
the Executive Government, that exclusively Protestant stied salaries shall be drawn 6,000/. or 7,0001.
Parliament without a division—without a dissentient a year ; the salaries for professors to vary
voice—consented to this supposed violation of principle, from 2501. to 3001. In order to increase the number of
and voted the sum which they then thought requisite professors it would be necessary to make an additional
for maintaining the institution, and stamped upon it a provision. I propose, therefore, that a sum not exceed-
Parliamentary sanction. Ift 1800, before the union, ing 6,000/. a-year should be given to the trustees, in
another Act passed. After the union the Imperial Par- order to make a provision for the president, professors,
liament, finding those grants in existence, passed, as I librarian, and principal officers of the College. I now
before observed, an Act in 1808, not interfering with the come to the provision to be made for students, but I
system which they adopted and sanctioned, and for ex- must first remind the House of the constitution of the ::
tending which they gave further facilities. For fifty College. The College is divided into two departments--
a..
years, up to this very year 1845, has this vote continued one of these has three senior classes, which are called'
for supporting the College of Maynooth. I know there divinity students, and from these selections are made
is a prevailing impression that the Imperial Parliament for the priesthood. In the subordinate departments of
did nothing more than adopt the Acts of the Irish Par- the College there are four junior classes; in addition tO
liament—that- they found the vote, and continued it these classes there are twenty senior students, or Dun-
without alteration, feeling themselves bound by the boyne students, so called because Lord Dunboyne left &
contract into which it is supposed the Irish Parliament grant of 5001. a-year expressly for that provision. I
entered. That is an impression which has prevailed. I have also stated that twenty senior students were selected •
am about to prove that that is completely erroneous, by the president, who were allowed to remain three
and to show that you have, at two distinct periods, years after they have finished the collegiate course, in .
granted an additional sum for the support of Maynooth the same way as bachelors are at our universities. There ,
—that you were not merely content with adopting the are in all four hundred and thirty students in the -
vote of the Irish Parliament, but that, on two specific College divided into these three classes: the Dunboyne,
occasions, you increased the vote. In 1807 the vote was the senior, and junior classes. We propose to allot tO
increased to 13,0001., the 5,0001. increase being applied each of the Dunboyne students the sum of 402 per annum.
for additional buildings. In 1808 Mr. Percival lent his di- We propose to make, in the whole, a provision for 500
rect sanction to the permanent increase of thevote. In that students-250 in the four junior classes, and 250 in the
year Mr. Foster, the Irish Chancellor of the Exchequer, three senior classes, these being divinity students. We
moved a resolution for granting to Maynooth College a propose that, for the maintenance of each student, in
grant of 13,0001., being 5,0001. over the grant of former order to cover the expense of collegiate education, that
years, for the purpose of enabling that institution to the sum of 28/. a year should be allowed to the trustees
erect buildings capable of accommodating 50 additional —that is, 281. a year for each—and, in addition to that,
students. In former years the number of students being sum, amounting to 14,5601., we propose for the two
200, a grant of 1,0001. was made, but as there was a hundred and fifty divinity students in the supe-
further sum voted for the maintainence of 50 additional rior classes a separate allowance of 20/. a year,
students, Mr. Foster moved that a sum not exceeding making a further sum of 5,0001. The effect of this sr-
-9,2501., Irish currency, should be granted to his Majesty rangement, when sanctioned by the House, will be a
to defray the expenses. Mr. Percival said be was per- very considerable increase. For president, professors.
fectly right-after the grant was established, and after and librarians, we propose a sum not exceeding 6,0001.
the union was carried, that the grant of a year For the twenty Dunboyne students 401. a year t
the Irish Parliament should net be diminished. making a total yearly provision of 26,316/. Observe
The grant was extended one-fourth more for the pur- here we admit of an increase in the number of students
poses- of education. It appeared that 111 others were in the College from 440 to 500. We propose that -
educated for the Catholic priesthood in different parts of such addition to the building itself shall take pla!e as
Ireland. On the whole, he thought a supply of 360 stu- will enable a decent apartment to be assigned to each
dents would be sufficient to meet the demand. In 1808, student ; and that the College shall be made in appenr-
Mr. Percival being Minister, the Government consented ance, and, in fact, worthy of such an institution.--e
to extend the vote beyond that made by the Irish Cabi- (Hear, hear, and cheers.) We further intend that a
net, for the express purpose of providing education for decent provision shall be made for the president, and
50 additional students.—(llear, hear.) And further, that the repairs of the College shall be annually attended
Mr. Percival implied that if he thought a greater num- to. For the better accommodation of the president
ber of students than 361 were requisite for the service of and the professors we design suitable apartments for
the Roman Catholic Church, lie would not be unwil- them. The whole grant, then, will be a sum not eV'
ling to increase the grant.—(Hear, hear.) But here is cec ding 30.0002 (Great cheering from the Opposition)
a distinct 'Hoof that in 1808 the Imperial Parliament —to be made from the puelie funds. We do not pre'
made an increased provision, in order that 50 mere stu- pose that the pro. isions made for the five hu
dents might be educated in Maynooth. Again, in 1813 dred students should be divided among an increase,
—I can speak of that myseit, for I was then in office— number. We wish th. it education to be a liberal
an addition of 700/. or 9002 tty ec ar was msde, In order one, and that the reminiscences of Maynooth should not
to be applit d to the maintenance of Beni, r students, be revelting.—(Hear, hear.) We increase the grant,
called the Dunboyne establishment. I have stated what but we limit the nuinber of students to 500. We pro-
have been the circumstances of this connexion in pose, also, that. the Board of Works shall undertake the
the first instance, aid how the Parliaments both of Eng- repairs of the College of Maynooth, the amount of such
laud and Ireland have, on difTerentoccasions, stre ngthem ei repairs and improvements to come before the Hour
that connsxeon by successive grants au•d endowments. in the shape of an annual vote, included in the yearly
And I now ask whether, after thisstate of things existing estimates of the Board of Work-. With respect to the
for half a century, it would be prudent or preper, on visitorial p ,wers—we do not propose that any greater..
an alleged violation of conscientious scrupl. s, to give powers shall be conferred on the visitors than they 03'
notes to the Ramie Catholics of treistal that this con- present poses, but we propose that instead of a trial'
uexion, so c• ntinued uniraerruptedly for half a century, niat visitation it shall be an annual one, and that
fife
must be abandoned.—(hear, bear) When this cen- visitors shall be appointed instead of three, and that the
nexion was formed, the Raman Catholics were tab, wring Lord. Lieutenant shall have power to direct a visitatioo
under disabilities, but those disabilities did not then con- whenever he may think fit. Her Majesty will appoint theaed
stitute a ground of objection in the eye of the Irish Par- visitors in addition to the three Roman Callon_
liament.—(Hear, hear.) These disabilities have been visitors which at present exist. These visitors, as I
We
done away with—the Roman Catholics now stand on already stated, will not be invested with greater powerli
the same footing with ourselves in respect to equality but their visit- must be a bona fide one : it We'e
of civil privileges—shall we now take the opportunity, have no reference to doctrine or discipline. 17
in opposition to the deeds of our ancestors, of saying to will not spoil this act.— (Hear, hear.) This be',
them, " That favour wits granted under the reign of siness was ascertained by three visitors, and the
George the Third, in the administration of Mr. Pitt, visitors were the Earl of Fingal), Dr. Crolly-, and Pt.
but we must now withhold it on account of religious Murray ; and I can assure the House that this Ines-
scruples."—(llear, hear.) What would be the e ff, et of sure has not been brought before it without a considers;
such a declaration or. the Roman Catholics? Why, it tion of the feelings of the Roman Catholic body, °'
would not be the refusal of the amount of pecuniary aid without consultation with those who may well be or
which would be deprecated—it is the animus which die- posed to be acquainted with the feelings of that botli'
tilted that refusal. —(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," in and I think I may say that those gentlemen are Pre'
which the shrill piercing voice of Mr. Sheil was dis- pared to recommend it to the members of the Roma°
tinctly audible.) We never could convince them that Catholic Church. I believe, Sir, that this measure !!
we were actuated by those conscientious scruples which conceived in the spirit in which it was first announctin
were not enter taincd by George 111 , by Mr. Pitt, nor and that it will meet with the general consent Of tud
by an exclusively Protestant Legislature of their own Roman Catholic hierarchy. I believe, Sir, that the'
country, and which were never felt since that time.— are prepared to receive it with a feeling of satisfactions:
(Hear.) I should deeply regret that such a refusal and that they are grateful for it. That it will meet Weld,
should be made, not merely on account of the Roman the approbation of the most influential and respects° 0
Catholics, but for the sake of the general welfare of Ire- of that powerful body, and that it will be accepted Chef
land. Such a declaration would be in effect a proclama- liberal and efficient remedy for the evils under which e
tion that we who dissented from the doctrines of have suffered. I do not use this as an argument for
the Roman Catholic Church—that we who held a faith the adoption of this measure by the House, but Idohr E
which we considered more pure, and to which we- are here that it is a strong inducement for the House to.
devotedly attached, would not on account of these doe. take it into its most favourable consideration. lam t*li
trines and on account of that devotion give any assis- insensible of the difficulty of the position under whievis
tance to Roman Catholics.—(!.fear, hear.) If we make I and those who act with me labour, in proposing tfe
that declaration what is the lesson we inculcate?—(Hear, increased grant to Maynooth ; but still I conceive t° f
hear.) Now, take the case of the Protestant pro • this grant is nothing more than a liberal construction fa
prietors of an extensive district—they had a large the obligations into which this House and the countln
Roman Catholic tenantry—they were probably Dis- have entered with the Roman Catholic body in Ireland,
ser,ters and Catholics who tilled the soil—would it be and this measure is nothing more or less than a legree
right in these landed proprietors to refuse to contribute mate fruit of that obligation. Nor do I conceive Ore
any assistance towards those Roman Catholic tenantry— any misconstruction can be put on this grant, other(to
would they be acting in accordance with the will of the than to say that this is an act of greater liberality
,0
Supreme Judge to refuse all means whereby those might have been expected. I do not propose that tn.',
poor people might obtain religious consolation ?—(Hear, grant shall be one for giving a title to intermeddle ylleaa.
hear.) I think they would be acting more in accord- the doctrines of the Church to which this grant ism
°'s;
ance with the principles of the faith which they profess, Ibelieve that such an attempt would be both ungolas
if they said to these poor people, "I wish you to have mous, unjust, and uncalled-for. We do not give zie•;ti
religious consolation in the hours of need. I wish you thing by this grant, which in plinciple has not tOO
to have religious instruction from those who can afford yielded by previous grants. I am a opinion that
it. I will, therefore, contribute towards the maintenance will be amply rewarded by the improved system of are,
of the minister who will perform these duties."—(Hear, cation among the Roman Catholic ecclesiastics of lige
hear.) Is there any precept in our religion to forbid land. And in doing this. Sir, Ido not believe that
ori
this? Do not great and enlightened bodies act so? I violate any one conscientious principle vvhatever--(ffia.
will take for example some of the great companies of the hear)—for I hold stedfast and unwavering every liftbe
City, of London, who .do everything to improve ciple of the Church to which I belong ; but arsons
tho condition of those dependent upon them. same time, I do believe that we violate faith
They make great sacrifices to do so. Take of the obligations of honour and good ' e
the Drapers' Company—they allot a small sum as in promoting iinprovement in the character of those be
a stipend for the payment of the Roman Catholic priest- are entrusted with the education of those who are{ t°, ie.
hood, and contribute to the repairs of the Roman Cas spiritual guides and instructors of millions of our :°0
tholic chapels ; and am Ito advise Parliament to take a countrymen.—(lmmense cheering from the OpP9""'
course, which would in effect tell the compsnices—" You benches).
cannot contribute towards Roman Catholic purposes On the motion that the Bill be brought in, ar
without a violation of religious principle."—(Hear, tiir R. INGLIS said that he regretted, on mail -.61A
hear.) But what will be our ,'Wh position? How shall counts' that no other person stood in the precise post°
we ant when we come to decide upon the grant to Pres- which he occupied, and the mere so, because it hals
byterian ministers ? Shall we continue that vote? Per- pence that on this occasion he was more than nsureat
tions of the public money are voted to men whose re- unable to address the House ; but, however that tobees
ligious opinions we utterly repudiate. What position be, he felt thahltful that he was able to offer some °Pret
will we stand in with 'respect to our own colonies?— sition, however feeble, to the proposition from his !lie
(Hear, hear.) If we avow such a principle, in what ht
re- Hori:Friend at the head of the Government. Milo.
lotion will we stand towards the Roman Catholics at close of his speech, as at its commencement, his Rig-1,0
Malta and Gibraltar —(llean hear)—in the Canadas and Friend had stated that the proposition which he oi,
in the Mauritius i —(Hear, hear.) In many of-the West brought before the House was one which violated
'iae
India Islands it would be impassible to act upon the titer honour nor good faith. Now, in the considers of
principle of disclaiming altogether such religious support. of this question they must take it as regulated eithelon
How shall wo stand with regard to the Roman Catholics law or custom, and he felt assured, however relucta in%
of Ireland ? Shall wo repeal the Act which provides he might do it, that it was impossible to resist onP°sfele
the payment of Roman Catholic chaplains for prisons? the proposition of his Right Hon. Friend, and he ,00.
eire-
Au Act was passed enabling grand juries to appoint that his Right Hon. Friend must have entertainen a,,,,
Roman Catholic chaplains to gaols—nay, making it siderablo doubt of his ultimate success, by a eeri
compulsory upon them to do so when a proper requisi- stance which could not have escaped his practiced ree
Lien was made. The grand jury was required to make that all the cheers with which this proposition "'esse-'
provision for the maintenance of those chaplains, and ceived came from the Opposition side of
-the o°ll'aell
to prevent the assignment of unequal salaries to (Cheering from the Opposition side of the House) agn
ministers of the different religious persuasions. Will he believed that his Right Hon. Friend would find.
rant
you. repeal the Act far the maintenance of Roman the general feeling of the country was against anY
„e-ttee;
Catholic chaplains for workhouses? There again you such as he had made to the consideration of the L's'aett
have imposed an abso!ute obligation to appoint Roman His Right Hon. Friend had stated that this pro Pol the
Catholic chaplains. Will you take away from the
wretched pauper that religious consolation which he would not take the country by surprise, for that st jest
close of last session he had intimated that he int° in
seeks in his last moments before he is ushered into the to introduce some provision for academical educatieenho
presence of his Maker.—(Hear, hear.) That faiths
against which you protest, and those doctrines which Ireland, but he (Sir R. Inglis) must state, that ne,,lt.bie
are not your doctrines, you have yet given a Parlia- ia his declaration of last session, nor in that rem
,hen
speech which he had made five years ago ' he
mentary sanction to, by providing salaries for its teachers.
Can I then, after reviewing our own position, and that not a Minister of the Crown, he had professed thatatae
was not prepared to vote for the discontinuance okoo,
of the colonies, and that of the Roman Catholics of Ire-
land, who for the last fifty years received this Parlia- grant to the College of Maynooth. His Right biro
Friend had stated that he had three courses before the
mentary rantprepared to
I now come to the conclusion that —the discontinuance of the grant, its increase, or
we are prepared to discontinue that grant on the grounde ~ the
endowment of the College. At that time, n'te-000.
speech of the Hon. Member for Kent, his Hight co'
of the violation of religious scruples ? Will the House
continue the present grant or repudiate it altogether? Friend had refused to give his pledge for the discon,
I know only one other course, and that course we are tinuance of the grant. Had it been merely the coin!
prepared to take.—(Loud cheers.) Prepared—yes, I tinuance of the grant, he (Sir R. Inglis) would hoe who
will say prepared—believing that it, will be conducive to little in opposition to the motion ; but be, and th en'
err
the welfare of the Irish people, and that it will generate a acted with him, could look on it only
confiding spirit among them. If we are to take that as a grant of
the
dowment to the Catholic Church in Ireland, and easel
course, all will admit that it should be taken in a cenci- uncalled for by any circumstances of the P—sut,
liatory spirit. If these institutions are to remain, we
should consider them with a view towards improving and when reference was made to the prat' t
time. This had been in fact an annual
lice of fifty years as sanctioning this gsrssenrt:
their condition. By improvement Ido not .mean inter-
ference with the course of education pursued there, which
would be poisoning all the good that our liberality would and as authorising the present measure, he must that it
in opposition to the position of his Hon. Friend, ,ah as
effect, but I mean treating them in a really generous was merely a provision froth year to year, and st; even
spirit, with the hope that such treatment will create a never precluded the reconsideration of the gran" as it
corresponding spirit, and that we may reap the within the session in which it was made. Nor nr bat
fruits of it in the improved feeling and condition expected by the Roman Catholic body, at the time t.O
of the Roman Catholic clergy and laity. Having
it should be anything more. When as a matter runtffebr
determined to take that course, we ought to take it
effectually, and make a provision which e ill be reall the Irish House of Commons had passed the gneene
the support of the Colle in 1799, the House °Y., lent
sufficient to supply the wants of the Roman Catholic virtually negatived it by ' 'which s etluiv-' 0
to voting the consideratio
Church, so that the ministers of that religion may .be 1,• time
well educated and well disciplined. To increase the any quea en
an
ofmotien
ti
.wafor
tias
to
sa
six months, by voting its application at animpo..ol
grant by an addition of 3,000/. or 4,000/., would be
worse than nothing.—(Hear, hear.) I exclude that en: date. And what was the
.impression, enteri;hea
tirely from my consideratim. I cannot think that the of any right to support from. Goveratenn,_,6eci a
the College of Maynooth was first estabiw.