The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-23 00:00:00

THE SILK WEAVERS.

Lord LILFORD presented a petition from the opera-
tive silk weavers of, the township of Leigh, praying for
the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into
their case ; and also to move for the appointment of a
Select Committee thereupon. The petition was
signed by upwards of 5,000 persons. He did not intend
to go into the general question affecting the grievances
of which the petitioners complained. He knew their
Lordships were jealous—and properly jealous of the
statements of petitions. He should confine himself merely
to the allegations of that petition. They stated the
causes of their distress to be low wages, unjustifiable
abatement of those wages, want of employment, and
home competition. From all- the investigation he had
been_ able to make on this subject, be was satis-
fied that their allegations were well founded ; and if
their Lordships would give him the opportunity, he
would confirm those statements by evidence on oath.
The Arbitration Act had been found to be very ineffec-
tive in reconciling the differences of masters and men ;
for a recourse to them was attended with expense, loss of
time, and seldom was attended with any satisfaction,.
(The Noble Lord then read extracts from letters received
by him from magistrates, confirming the statements of
the petitioners as to the inefficiency of the arbitrators,
and that the wages of the workmen were abated frequently
in an arbitrary manner, and without any justification.)
He trusted their Lordships would consider this matter
coolly and dispassionately, and look at all the bearings
of the case, for by so doing it would beholding out a
hope to those people. and prove to them that their Lord-
ships were most anxious to do all they could to alleviate
their distress. He should not, under all the circum-
stances of the case, at present move for the appointment
of a Select Committee; -but he, nevertheless, hoped that
the matter would not be allowed to rest where it now was.
Lord DALHOUSIEfeIt great satisfaction in hearing
his Noble Friend annbunce his intention of net applying
for a Committee, because it would have a tendency to
mislead the public -mind. The subjects mentioned in
this matter were manyand varied,-and in manyinstances
so totally .beyond the control of. Parliament, that it
would be almost impossible to legislate for them. Such
being.the case, he thought it would be only exciting the
public mind without doing any practical good, and tend
to increase the difficulties by which the matter was al-
ready surrounded. He could not agree with his Noble
Friend on the propriety of the alteration which he proposed
in the law relating to this subject. He did not wish, as
an individual, to pledge her Majesty's Government to
the adoption of any particular course, but still he would
say that there should be no loss of time in their endea-
vour to amend the existing law.
After a few words from Lord KENYON, the subject
dropped._

The sfarquis of CLANRICRADE presented a peti-
tion from a place in Ireland, praying for the repeal of
the legislative union.

Th(i-Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from
Harefield, Middlesex, against the Ecclesiastical Courts
Bill.

The House then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 22.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
The following Bills were read a second time, namely,
the Eastern Counties' Union Railway, the Newcastle
and Darlington Junction Railway and Tyne Bridge
Bill, the Pontop and South Shields Railway Bill, and
the Edinburgh, Leith, and Granton Railway Bill.
The Birmingham Canal Navigation Bill was read a
third time, and passed.

. FACTORIES BILL.
Sir JOHN EASTHOPE presented •a petition from
Leicester, signed by a large number of manufacturers,
expressing in strong terms the disapprobation of the
amendment introduced by the Noble Lord, the Member
for Dorset.

THE SILK MANUFACTURE.
Lord F. EGERTON presented a petition signed by
5,000 persons comiected with the silk-weaving trade,
complaining of the many disadvantages which pressed
so heavily on them, and praying that Parliament would
appoint a Committee to inquire into the matter.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD presented a petition
from the managers of the poor in the several townships
of the parish of Rochdale. The petitioners stated their
objections to the bastardy:clauses of the Poor-law Bill, and
prayed that they may be amended- before the Bill be
passed into law ; also, a petition from- Braintree hi
Essex, praying for a full and fair representation of the
people ; and a petition from J. B: Harvey, of Col-
chester, against certain clauses in the Great Western
Railway Bill.

IRELAND.
Mr. O'CONNELL presented' a petition from St.
John's, Newfoundland, praying that justice might be
done to Ireland, and that recourse might not be bad to

measures of coercion ; also several petitions from dif-
ferent places in Ireland, complaining of the maladmi-
nistration of justice ; also petitions from different parts
of Ireland, signed by upwards of 180,000 persons, com-
plaining of tie effects produced upon Ireland by the
legislative union, and praying for its repeal.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petitton against the
ten hours' clause of the. Factories Bill.
Sir R. 11. IN GLIS presented a petition from the mem-
bers of the Bath Church of England Lay Association,
complaining of the conduct of Dissenters, and praying
the House to resist all attempts to deprive the Church
of England of the full amount and benefit of her esta.
blishad rights.—NO(lron
TICES Ober
MOTION. -s from the Opposition.)
Mr. FITZSTEI'HEN FRENCH gave notice that on
Tuesday he should move for certain returns on the, sub-
ject of the working of the Tithe Commutation Act in
'lreland.
Mi. EWART gave notice that he .would take the
earliest opportunity, upon the House going into a Com-
mittee of Supply, of moving for the abolition .of the
duties on raw materials, and for a reduction. of those
duties which tend to.encourage smuggling.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
Sir A. Clifford, Usher of the Black 'Rod, appeared
at th., table, and summoned the House to the House of
Lords to hear the Royal Assent, given by. Commission,
to several Bills.

mittee on the Commons Incleisure Bill, he would move
the adoption of resolutions to the effect, that it wts ex-
pedient to have a Board consisting of a superintendent
and two vice-superintendents, to whom (as we under-
stood) the subject should be referred.
WRECKS OF THE NERBUDDA AND ANN.

Dr. BOWRING put the question, of which he had
given notice—Whether any reply has been received from
the Government of Pekin, in answer to the application
made for the punishment of the authorities of the Island
of Formosa, who ordered the murder of the crews of the
Nerbudda and Ann ? Two hundred of the crews of these
vessels fell into the hands of the natives, and were treated
with great cruelty by them, the greater proportion of
them being subsequently murdered. He wished to know
whether any redress had been obtained or promised
for this outrage. It was understood that the na-
tive authorities had been advanced in rank b'
.the
Emperor of China ; he wished to know if any punish-
ment was likely to be inflicted on them for this violation
of the laws, of nations and humanity.
Sir R. PEEL said he believed- the statement of the
Hon. Gentleman was substantially correct. Two Bri-
tish vessels were wrecked on the coast of Formosa,
and after the sailors . and passengers had been
detained a :considerable 'time, . and suffered.
great privations, many of them were put to death. Sir
H. Pottinger made a representation to the Emperor of
China, stating that the. British Government viewed the
transaction with great. regret, .and trusted that signal
punishinent would beinflicted _on the authorities of the
island. He must say that he thought .the statement
of the Emperor-in reply to him was a very satisfactory
one, and worthy of a ruler of a 'great - country. A
proclamation was inserted in the Pekin Gazette, of which
Sir Henry Pottinger spoke in high terms. ,He stated
he had seen with great pleasure the decree of the. Em-
peror on the subject of the British subjects who were
put to death on tho island of Formosa, and he was
sure it would be received with great satisfaction
by his Government. That proclamation he (Sir
Robert Peel) thought exhibited as great a desire
to do justice as he had ever seen on the.part of a civi-
lised State. The ,Emperor alleged in the proclamation
that he had been entirely deceived by the Chinese
authorities of Formosa, who stated that the crews of the.
ships landed with arms in their hands, and were
taken as prisoners of war. He had ordered
an inquiry into .their conduct, and finding
that they had 'deceived him, be had ordered
all who had obtained a promotion of rank by their false
representations to be degraded from it, and to
be handed. over to the-. Board. of Punishment,
The Emperor had therefore disgraced all the parties
concerned, and had caused them to be •removed
for the purpos'e of being tried ;Jay the miller
authorities, and having
_such further psh-
ment inflicted upon them as their crime de-
served. Now he really thought, upon the whole, this
proclamation was all that could be expected. They there
saw the. adyantage ,of increased intercourse between
civilised countries.
. INCENDIARY FIRES, •
_ _

Colonel FOX begged. to ask the Right Hon. Gentle-'
man the Secretary of State for the Home-Department;
whether any steps had been taken by the Government-in
consequence of the numerous incendiary fires which had.
Wien'
recently place in Suffolk.' It was well known that
several such fires • had-taken place.- The Hon. Gentle-
Man,then read an. extract :from an address delivered by
the Chairman of Quarter Sessions, in whibh he expressed
his astonishment that the rural police had not been able
to detect any of the offenders. . .• . .-
Sir J. GRAHAM said it was undoubtedly true that
several incendiary fires had taken place in Suffolk' within
a recent-'period,-- and • that, though every attempt
had. been made, no offender had as y•et been discovered.
Although the crime might be frequent, it was still
difteult of, deteation: Ho had ' thought it mecessar)- •
to send some assistance to` the rural police froin-tlie me •
tropolitan force, but he was sorry to say that', up to the
present time no detection had taken place: •
Lord HENNIKER rose amidst loud cries of ‘‘ Order;
orderi'' btit. 'was at length. allowed to . proceed. - Be
said. the ,fires in the county which he had the
honour to represent—namely, Suffolk—were so fre-
quent, that it .was matter of wonder 'when there were
none.--(Hear, hear.) He himself had been called up at'
two o'clock in the. morning, and had witnessed a most
awfurconflagration. He believed thaVone fire had taken,
place y6terday ; but it was quite true- that, up to that
moment,..not one of the offenders had been detected.
• INDIA.

Mr._ MANGLES gave notice that- he • would
move fpr a return of the letters to, the Board of Control
from the late Lord Hastings, dated the lath December•
1809, end the, Ist of March, 1810, or extracts therefrom'
Sir ROBERT PEEL was understood to say that he
had no objection to the return.of "the letters, 'but if the
Hon. Member moved for extracts, thatwoUld.be a matter
of discretion. • -

THE. SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY MORNIN,G, 'MARCH 28, 1844.

1846, the hours of labour for females end young per-
sons shall be eleven. The Noble Lord said he would
not fatigue the House, which had been already so in-
dulgent to him, by' going into details. He would quote
the opinion of Mr. Horner, as stated in his report. He
said that in factories a -restraint ought to be put upon the
labour of females, and of children, because where there
was such a redundancy of labour, there could be no such
Piing as practical freedom; Women In the minufac-
turing districts were not free agents, they were obliged
to toil, and they, were net able to bear fatigue to the
same extent as men. The experience and knowledge of
all medical men was against their being employed in the
manner they were 'at
_present: 'And, in his report of.
December, 1841, Mr. Horner further stated that there
could-be littledoubt but that working ten hours- a day
would be less prejudicial to health than working for
Irwelye; . but, without enteringinto the question of health
at all, such an entire absorption of the labour and time
of the working classes, was in a moral point of view,
most objectionable. He (Lord Ashley) thought . the
House: had, to a great extent, to consider whether it was
better to have a moral population, with smaller wages
or a depraved people, with greater?--(hear:) But he
was not by any means prepared to admit, at least to the
extent supposed by• Honourable ,Gentleman opposite,
that .a diminution of the hours- of. labour would cause
such. a. reduction of wages. In- 1833 .the hours of
labour of children in factories had been - reduced
considerably; yet when he' (Lord Ashley) visited
the manufacturing districts - in 1836- ha found that chil-
dren had just as much wages then for eight hours'. work.
as they had.previously for ten or twelve. In •1818 a pes
tition to that House was presented by' Sir _Robert Peel,
father of the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of her
Majesty's 'Government, from the cotton-spinners of
Manchester, praying for a reduction in' the hours of la-
bour, and the Hon. Baronet on that 'occasion, in urging
the prayer of the petitioners, said they (the petitioners)
were most anxious that the Legislature would interfere,
and that they would prefer a dirainution in the comforts
of life they were then enjoying to their present intoler-
able toil. In combatting his (Lord Ashley's) arguments
the Hon. Member for Durham and the Hon. Member for
Manchester spoke in very high terms of the comfort of
the operatives, and of the wages those employed in the
factories could earn. Why, he thought that that argu-
ment was rather in favour of his (Lord Ashley's)
proposition, for if they earned- such large wages
they could the better bear a. diminution of them.
He held in his hand certain returns, which-would show
that the Operative population would not be injured by,
any. reduction in their wages, arising out of the limita-
tion' to ten hours a-day of their labour. He took; in the
first place, the case of a single woman; he would sup-
pose that her earnings from work ,in the factory
amounted to 9s. per week. Now'it must be recollected
by the House that there were many things to be done
at her home which might be done by herself, but owing
to the length of time he was,- under the present
system, 'engaged in the factory, she was compelled to
hire another person to -do that work for her. The ex-
penses of her washing, which, under a system of ten
hours's:labour, she' -.won Id be enab/ed to-do herself.;
the loss arising from her meals .being -carried
to the factory, and other little matters, would amount to.
about • Is. Sid. per week. If she had to work but ten
hours in the day she would save these expenses; and
supposing her wages to be reduced one-sixth in conse-
quence- of the reduction in • the number of hours of
labour, it would be seen that she would not be a loser
by the change. He would take the case of a family of
five persons, three of whom worked in a factory twelie
hours a day. The mother_ obtained 10s., a-week, the
eldest child 4s. per week, and the second child 35.,
Making in all 17s. per week. The expenses of washing,
mangling,' &c , would amount to 2s. per week: A woman
would be required occasionally to assist the huaband at
home in the domestic work, and that would take another
shilling. He would then put down another shilling for
the loss which would arise from the meals being carried to
the factory, by which great waste was caused, inasmuch
as when-several persons dined together, anything that was
left-might be put by towards another meal.. A loss would
arise from the husband cooking the meals, for scarcely
any man, whether Frenchman or Englishman, could
cook so ecenomically as a woman.—(Laughter.) This
loss he estimated at anothet shilling, and these expenses
together would amount to 55., which left 12s. for the
purchase of provisions, clothing, and other expenses.
Now that was the estimate under thesysteni of twelve
hours' labour. He would.now state the -amount of _the
expenses for the same family, under a system' of ten
hours' labour. Supposing that the wages,. in conse-
quence of the 'reduction of the number of hours of la-
bour, were to .be reduced one-sixth, the wages of this
'family would amount to 14s. 2d. Undera system of ten
hours' labour the woman would • have time to do the
washing of her own family at an expense of about on*
shilling. A woman would be required occasionally to
assist in cleaning the house, and that would take another
sixpence, making one shilling and sixpence to be de-
ducted from- the-14s: 20,, reffiicing-the wages ;to 12s:
Bd. per week. It would' be seen; therefore, that rather
than .the family losing by any reduction in the amount.
of their wages, they would be gainers by:-the change.
These were the. statements - made by the operatives
themselves. He held it?..his hand a note, from. a person'
who was on the spot, respecting the expenses of a
family—he took the case of a family of four
persons working in a- ' factor all of whom were
engaged in' different hinds *of 'abour.' Each of those
four persons had separate teas, and, consequently four
journeys were made in -conveying the meals to the
factory. Under the present system of twelve hours'
labour, the full amount of victuals sent out was either
consumed, or destroyed, and great waste often took,
place. Now, under a system of tent hours' labour, only
three meals a day would be required. Under the present
Sj stem, such was the great exhaustion to which the
labourer was subjected; that it was absolutely necessary
he should have at least four meals a day, Unds r a
system of ten hours' labour, therefore, one meal a day
:would be saved, besides the advantage of having the
meals at home. The writer of the note he-held in his
hand said that, .when he worked ten hours a day,
-in 1842, he never had more than three meals
a day ; but that, when he was working twelve
hours. a day, in the Sense mill, he was, :abso-
lutely obliged to have what were called " extras.",
These consisted of little delicacies, such as ham and
other things, to enable him to go through 'the hours of
his. daily labour. There was another point to be con-
sidered, and that was, that it required one child to-carry
meals from the home to the
.factory. Now, under a'
system, of ten hours the la.bonr of this child might be
employed. more advantageously• and profitably to its
parents. But the most important consideration of all
amongst the opera-
uld have the- effect of
of labour were to be
vadesu
cs, ttehhdae
nt
from istav
taeess gthetinat
fvl
tyhve
twelve,
ehli ioteuwv
re dos
re
a
prolonging for at least three years
.the term of their
working life ; many went as far as to say that it Would
prolong their workinglife as much as five years. -He,
had only one other fact, which was a very remarkable
one, with reference to this subject which he would trouble
the House with, and that was a table showing the 'num-
her of. criminal offences, committed in England and
Wiles in the year 1841. Prom that the House might
judge of the-condition, or rather the moral character,- of
the females in the manufacturing districts, The pro-,
portion of females committed for offences was much
greater in the manufacturing and commercial counties 1
than in the agricultural counties. He took 13 manu-
facturing, and 13 agricultural counties s and in-1841 the
:number of females committed in the agricultural districts
.was one to six males, and in the manufacturing and-.
commercial counties one to three males. Now he would.
appeal, to the Muse to consider the position In which
this question was placed. He would tell her Majesty's_
Government that it was "not 'a new matter—it was not
now propounded for the -first time—for the last twelve
years it had been gradually growing up. Let the Go-
vernment bear in mind what was the position of the
question now, rafter a majority of that House had affirmed
it—a majority involving the representatives of the_.
greatest of the cornniercialsenstituencies in the kingdom-
-(Cheers)—and supported by the fervid and undy-
ing sympathy of this country.--(Cheers.) Did they
think it wise—did they think it just, toreverse such a
mighty decision by the simple exercise of official aotho-
rity?-•-:(Cheers.) He _Appealed to the House .whether,
after having excited such bright hopes and expectations,
they would now destroy that hope which had been called
into life amongst the great body of our tharnifacturirig
population-=he called upon them not to do so—from the
bottom. of his heart he- called upon them.to do justice to
the syinpathy which had been . evinced by the whole
country on this subject—to ''do justice to their own cha-
racter, -and not turn round upon 'theil- deciiion and de-
stroy its effect. He called upon them to have regard
for the character they occupied in • the country; and to
the character they occupied in the minds of all the
nations of the world. Did -they .think that the
feeling which. had been excited amongst the people
would ever. rest' until they arrived at that cons
summation which was 'so much desired ? He could
assure the- Government that if they succeeeded
that night—he did,net believe they would—hut he could
assure them, that if they succeeded that night, it would
only be to give additional vigOur and additional determi-
nation to those who had so long maintained the principle
he was then advocating. 'lf they succeeded that night,
their success would have the effect of prolonging the
sufferings and the evils which he had described.
.But
they might depend upon it that the, sympathy of mans
kind and the feeling of the country would compel them.
)
ultimately 'to surrender, and they would surrender at
last, when the boon svouldhave•losVall its grace, and he
feared would be of little remedial power. The Noble
Lord concluded by moving that the labour. in factories
be ten hOurs instead of twelve, intimating that if this:
motion should be carried, he should then move a previa()
that it should not come into, operation until 1846.
Sir WILLIAM CLAY said it that was his intention tts
oppose the motion of the Noble Lord ; but while he did
so he would give •the Noble Lord full credit, for the
humane and exalted sentiments he had expressed. He
could not, however, think that the Noble Lord had made
'out a case sufficiently strong to justify the Government
in, adopting- his proposal He did not think that the
remedy proposed by the Noble Lord would have the
effect of removing the evils of which the Noble •-Lord
complained. He thought, on the contrary, that the
proposal of the Noble Lord would aggravate rather,
than diminislitthe evil. He did not think that the labour
performed in factories was so severe as to tall for le-
gislative interference. In the opinion expressed by
medical men, as to the effect of factory labour, there
were great discrepancies. It was a remarkable fact; that
'those mecticsd men Who-were of opinion, that factory
labour was, injurious' to health, were persons not per-
lewdly conversant with the subject. Medical men
resident on' the spot, in the midst of the factory popu-
lation, w.ere decidedly of a contrary opinion. If the House
were to refer to the sanatory reports,
they would find
that the average duration of life amongst the labouring,
,Pc
population of the manufacturing districts was greater
than amongst.. persons of a similar class in' the large
toe ns. Forlzcsts, the mean duration
of life of persons
employed in factories in Manchester was not less than
the mean duration of life amongst persons in a similar