The Sun.
London, England, 1819-12-16 00:00:00

change, ‘vlieti

The SPRAItiER in:erfrred by reMalking that such
a line of argument could not conveniently be pla-
sm-it, where an Order of the D.iy was Moved tnere-
iy for time purpoie of p6s,pouing it.
'The Report was pos,pou,d tilt Friday.
COTTON FACTOP6IE!: AMENDMENT BILL.

Sir Il..l)BELii moved the third reading of the
Cott►►►► F.ictoriv* A wendmeut

Mr. [iv:-is objected to tl►e principle, of legis-
lating between masters and workmen, but said,
Le woul►l not op use the present bill, on account
of what had passed in the la3t Ses>ion.
'hie bill was then read a third timesand pas~e►i,

111 r. C. WYN.NE gave notice, that he would wove
fnr leave in bring in a bill to amend the 42d Geo.
Irish Elea ions.

Mr. LIiSLIE FosTee postponed big motion 00
the Education of the Poor in Ireland.

INSOLVENT DEBTORS.

Lord ALTHORP began by explaining the Me.
rences between the bill which lie proposed now to
bring in, and the bill which, he had brought in
upon this subject last year. The. great pt inciple
in both bills was the examination of the debts be-
fore ihe subject should be brought into court,
and the compulsion upon debtors to take the be-
urfl«)l the law. lie retained those parts, hut he
would not now- contend for the sale of all I he•
in-
s,Aveut's property. lie had left town when the
net was renewed last year, otherwise he .should
ye opposed the renewal, because the present
laws made it totally impossible to satisfy the coon-

try, Lowtver good the intentions of commissioners
might be. his Majesty's Ministers had sillet:
ts-
ni not only the commissioner trot all the
cletki. This had been most properly done. The
effect was every thing that could be wislitd. The
new commissioner had acquitted himself so that
persons in trade obtai,ned every thing they could
wish for. But unless the law were altered in such
a manner as he had proposed last sessioa, it was
totally impossible for the commissioner to give
full satisfaction. But he would save the expense
now by continuing the commissioner as now ap-
pointed. In order to make the previons examina-
tion sufficient, it would be necessary that the ex-
aminers should not be private, but appointed by
the commissioner. Ohiectiolts bad been made
last year against the giving power to assignees to
sell real property. He was satisfied that that
power ought to be admitted ; but as he could
flot bring it into practice, he proposed that real
property s'ionld be sequestered, and the profits
applitd to the payment of rise debts. He threw
hitnsel(upoo the indulgence of the House, as he
had -brought this for ward without
mock preparation, wishing, as Le did, that the
Bill should be brought in before the recess ; first,
in taper to give time fur considering it ; and
next, because the act which the Bill•was to sup•
ply would expire in a short time. What he con-
ceived absolutely necessary was that a previous
examination should take place, and that credi-
tors should have the power of counselling debtors
to take advantage of the Act. Unless those
two points should be secured, it was needless to
Pass the Ii il._

• Leave was granted to bring in the Bill, and
Lord A LT1101:P and Mr. G. LAMB WCI e appoint-
ed to prepare it.

BOOKSELLERS' PETITION.

111 r. 1. SMITH said, that he held in I►is hand 3

Petition how a most respeeteble class of persons.
It was a Petition upon a eubiect of the greatest
intlmulanee, and to which he entreated the parti-
cular attention of the Iloese. It was a Petition
against the proposed enactment, that persons
convicted a second time of a blasphemous or sedi-
: tious libel might be banished for seven years. As
many respectable persons were engaged in the
(tade of hookselling, as they were, many of them,
persons of large capital, of good education, and
of habits which qualified them tor the best society
in the country, they wete in the greatest distress
at the proposed .enectment. What rendered it
so extremely important to them was the great
uncertainty of what constituted libel. There
was scarcely a word so undefined es libel. The
Petitioners complained, and as he thought with
justice, that a punishment was now to be applied
to literary offences, which had hitherto beets re-
served for cases of felony, anti for atrocious crimes.
They urged that the fear of such a punishment
russet necessarily prevent the flee exercise of those
talents in whirls their own interests were imme-
diately involved. Amongst the names which were
subscribed to this petition would be found those
()I persons of the filet eminence in their business
—pt rsons who had embatked a capital of hue.
tired* of thousauds its their trade. But they telt
that the profits of their trade were rendered inse-
cure by a measure of this description; and many
whose Signatures were attached to this petition
would, he donbtedeuot, ahendon their trshress,
if the treasures Here carried into effect. Ile
trusted, therefore, that the 'Noble Lord would
devise souse 4)ther plan for pllllllg an end to the
evil of that propagat;on Of blasphemy and sedi-
lino with which we had been visited, and which
the Petitioners most readily admitted called for
some effectual remedy. It would add to the che-
ractrr of the Noble Lord to inteoduce.some
vision, that 'borsht put it out of the power of a
worthies, apPtentice, or a dishonest agent, to
bring his.employer into 4enger.
Mr. Buttner, merely rose, to state, that he con-
sidered the literature, the ft cesium, and security Of
thiscomstrve to be iliseparably connected. He
could himself hear testimony to the wealth and
intelligence of that class of persons who were now
petitioeieg the house. Their prayer certainly
deserved the inmost consideration, and it was but
A common debt to their loyalty Stud character to
listen to their remonstrances on t his subject. The
petition was then brought up, read, and oedered
to lie upon the table,
Lord CAiTIvEIIEAGEI tvi•bett to apprise the
House, that, he intended to propose souse al-
terations in the Committee upon this Bill, which
would pet haps meet the views of the petitioners,
whose respectability he most williugly acknow-
ledg.ed. One of these alterations respected the
penal part of the enactment, and he was happy to
state, that he did not see any necessity of press-
ing the liability to transportation.--(hear, hear !)
—lt appeared to him, upon a full review of all
the commuoications which had been made to
him upein the subject, that simple baniehment
would he an adeqoate penalty in those cases of
teeasonable and blasphemous libel of which an'
individual might be a. second time convicted. It
,had certainly been represented to him, that the
peeishment of tratesportatiou bed hitherto been
peculiarly confined to felonious offences ; and he
believed that the morel, the religious, stud politi-
cal inteeests of the -country, might be protected
without going to that exteat. He proposed,
therefore, thet transportation should be reserved
for cases of a return from banishment, and it
would thus be substituted for the penalty of deeth.
Mr. M. A. Teeteoe thought that the omission
of the penalty of transportation qualified to a
coosidetabie degree the mischief of the Bill in
question but unless the law as it stow stM)4l, was
proved to be insofficient to punish either blasphe-
mous or seditious libels, he net.t in the first its-
stance protest 'against the inttothietion of a new
species of punishment. It was incumbent on the
Noble Lott! to show a pressing necessity befote
the Bill could receive the general. approbation iaf
the country. if the Noble Lot d bed brought
forward his other measures in a similar tone of
miidness and eflowenee, he would have met with
much less opposition frosts that videof the House.
But he tineted that Hots. Neembese %%weld rt.
irlite that a strong necessity should be shown
for measures which went iu the short period: of
three weeks to effect an entire change in the Con-
stitution of the country.

Luid CASTLKHEAGH, in explanation, said, he
did not mean to preclude the tlyguttient which

‘vould untloub!edly stim upon a future stage of
tl►e question-by any statement that he had Ilion&
it due to the House to 01 ke, but si►uply to ap-
prise it of tl►e marked difference which the pro-
posed alterations would iniroilitee.
STAMP DUTIES BILL.

Lord CASTLEREAGH rose to move the second
reading of .this bill, and observed, that in so do:
ing, he might satisfy the object of thellight
Gentleman opposite (Mr. 'Tierney), as welt as his
own, and the general convenience of the Howie.
The bill might then be committed to-morrow and
reprinted, so. as trr be in the hands of Members on
Friday next. On the question of the third reading
the general principle of the bill might be discussed,
and he apprehended that this course of pro-
ceeding would be Mount} the most advisable
which could under the present circumstances
be adopted. The alterations which it was in
contemplation to propose he would now endea-
vour shortly to explain. The first branch of the
measure was that which rendered it applicable
to all publications sold tinder a certain price and
treating of political matters. 11,wre were two
classes of works which lie did nut think it neces-
sary to include in this desetipt:- n t the or•e con-
sisted of occasional pnhlications of a focal nature,
(pi involving only local interests ; the other re-
spected periodical %yolks, pnblist►ed .►t intervals
considerably distant front each other, and which
were of considerable importance, both as 'they
related to the diffusion of know I,dge nod tl►e sop--
port of religion and morality. It did not appear
to him that it would be proper to saddle such
publications with the new dwv of four-pence upon
each separate number. The House won't! teaahly
see that the great object of this measure was to
apply only to works which were the channels of
mischief, acid the means by which sedi:ton and
blasphymy were propagated through the country.
It t‘ as intended, t het t fore, to confine its pro►i►iuns
to periodical works published in succession within
the term of 26 days, so as in tact to exempt all
monthly and other publications not coming forth
within ti►at time. Still, in order to guard against
the means of-obvious invasions, it might be heees-
SA 1 y that the period of publication should be re•
►loiter} to be unitorm, and that the application of
stamp-duties to all works conveying intelligence
should tint -be avoided. The second blanch of

this bill referred to the subject of securities to be
given by persons publishing facts or intelligence
of a particular kiwi. It was not intended to
press inconveniently on newspapers, the prin-
cipal end its view being to put a tesponsinility
on a:I persons who sent forth works of a par-
ticular description to the public. lie certainly
unirt adhere to the principle of rtquiring se-
entity trout the publishers of all papers or pam-
phlets of less than two sheets, and sold under the
price of 6d., and issued within the period to
which he had alluded. At the EM111..! •Ine, he
wished it to be understood, that the iiew Stamp
Dot ies should only be co•extensive periodical
publications. The security required as the Bill
.olr as now framed was 5001. generally from the
printer ; it being at his discretion to produce it
him-elf or obtain it from 3or 4 other persons. it
had been stated to him this sum was too large, and.
might be tuoie easily raised or answered for hi
sonic places than in whets. The times, however,
in %%inch we Irene, seethed to him io require,
that persons exercising the po‘xer of the press
should be men of some respectability and property.
Bat as it was repre•ented that this snot of LOW.
might press too heavily on persons of a moderate
capital, or in distant places, he would !norm, to
reduce the sum to 3001. in Lottdon and its vicinity,
and it; 2001. in the provincial towns. lie was aware
that irmight be urged that•thete were pet sons not
possessed of any Capital , who wire sill anxious
to addiess Hie public on political got:stittos. Cat,es
of iatlivid,txl hardship might certart,:y alise ; but
at a tithe like the present, it appeared it, him sue.
cessary that Ilse law should he m=utts effectual for
its purpose. Arguments might certainly be r,,ied
as to the infittence of pamphlel-writiug upon the
moral's ind interests of the communi-y.. Into that
argument he would, not now diserge. • It affected
euthrly the general principle; and all that Ise now
meant was to give a gent-eral desctip oust at the
amendments or modifications which he was ready
to support. _ _

Mr.TIRR4EY declared that he felt much obliged
to the Noble Lord for the explanation which he
had just given. Without abandoning his objee--
tious to the principle of this measure, be was
willing to close with the Noble Lord's proposi-
tion as to arrangement. His oily doubt was,
whether the bill ..s rept inted, might not be in the
bands of Members before Friday, and whether it
might not pass through the Committee that night,
Mr. BROUGHAM wished that the ground upon
which he assented to the second reading should
be distinctly understood : the explanations whicli
bad been given did not at all remove his general
objection to the measure but he certainly could
perceive no ,advintage which could be delived
from discussing it until it was printed %vitt) its
new alteralions. After all that hail been sdid, be
still remained of opinion that the introduction of
a new punishment into our law was the most dan-
gerous innovation which had been attempted in
his time. To another piinciple lie must also de-
cidedly object. It was that which held forth that
the possession of a certain fortune was necessary
before any 61011 should discuss puli:ical questions
through the press.
The Bill was then read a second time, and or-
dered to be committed to-niummv.
Lord CASTLERKAGIi then observed, that with
respect to the Bill relative to blasphemous and
seditious libels, he was willing to postpone the
second
reading
to Monday next. Tice unite for
the second leading was read, and postponed to
Monday accordingly.