The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-06 00:00:00

GrKx?..r.

34 years; believes t

to to propc
sidrs, when

trict.

sham,

Con-

Cross-examined by Mr. WHATELCT, Q C.—Does not know whe-
ther his brother, Lord Wodehouse, was previously a dissentient to
the Bill, nor his motives for now supi,orting it. .

This line of cra-s-examination b•:ing objected to by Mr. Girden,
and held as irrelevant by the Committee, the Learned Counsel de-
sisted; and the Speakn having been announced at prayers, the
Committee adjourned.

GROUP KN..
7.77 POOL. AND nun 'arum.

The Committee met at twelve o'clock ; Sir C. Lemon in the chair.
The first witness examined today was Mr. S :mud Cottam, au-
ditor of the accounts of the Leeds and Nlanchester Railway, and
general accountant, who stated that the present traffic between Liver-
pool and Wigan wa. 95,1091 annu,illy, viz., '26,031/. 17s. 9d. for
passengers, 8941. 4s. 9d. for cattle, 65,9331 for minerals and
goods, for sumlries 9.5,0001. The population along the line was
330,000.

-
Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant BELLASIS—A very important
part of tha traffic was third-class passengers. The witness ex-
plained in a satisfactory manner how he made the c dculstions.
The foot passengers observed passing along the line from Wigan
to Liverpool, at the Ince station, were 4,593 in fourteen days. He
admitted,however, that there were several small towns along the line,
such as Leigh and Hlndley,and would not say but these passengers
were going there instead of to Wigan. Had, in his calculations,
estimated that 5,e00/. a year would be abstracted from the present
railways. He estimated that foot passengers, those who travelled
by horses and gigs, and what he calculated would be abstracted
from other railways, would be about 20,0001., and about 6,0901.
from other sources.

Re-examined—The traffic tables were taken in the usual man.
ner. Had not taken in these tables any of the traffic to York.
shire, nor computed in any way so highly as many traffic calcula-
tors who had been examined before other Committees.
The examination of this witness lasted more than two hours and
a half.

Mr. J. Thompson, engineer, in conjunction with Sir J. M`Neill,
to the Liverpool and Bury Railway, said it had been surveyed
under his direction. Was very careful in making trial surveys;
thought the projected line the best which the country admitted.
The terminus at Liverpool was in Howanhetreet, half a mile west
of the Exchange. There was now no connexion between the
terminus and the north docks, but such: a communication was
quite practicable, and was contemplated. It would have been laid
down on this elan, but when it was drawn up the position of the
docks had not been defined. The docks were, however, now in
course of formation. There would be no difficulty whatever
in effecting the junction. The levels admitted of a very
easy junction with the docks. The Liverpool and Bury
terminus was, generally speaking, about 500 yards from the
North Docks, in its passage through Liverpool. Another junction
with the Leeds and Liverpool Canal was intended ; forty feet
would be the height of the raiWay terminus, and from that
it would gradually drop down to an elevation of twenty-
three feet, whence the coal would be dropped into the
vessel. Their object in having this elevation was to drop the
coal, without breakage nr cartage, into the holds of the vessels ;
and so it would save much time and expense. There would be
no difficulty in extending the rails along the whole of the docks.
The proposed line passed out of Liverpool by an arching of 1,250
yards, in order to get over a few streets. These arches
would be valuable for the purpose of warehousing. The next
work of moment would be tunnelling under Walton.hill, which
would be 1 320 yards in length. That was about a mile and a half
from Liverpool, and it would be made through free-stone rock,
the most tavouranie of any for making a tunnel throne"). The
line would peas under the Preston turnpike-road, about
three miles from Liverpool. It would pass by Kirby
Billinge, and on to the north of Ramford. It would pass close by
Orrell, and thence to Wigan, a distance of 18,1, miles. At Wigan
it would cross the North Union Railway at an elevation. This
point would be very convenient for ajunctiou with the North Union,
if required. The line proceeded to the north of Hindley, which it
would approach within a quarter of a mile. It went on to West-
hotighton, which it approached within the same distance as Hind-
ley; it then went on to Bolton, and joined the Blackburn, Darwen,
and Volton Railway; it went on to Bury, and would join the Bury
arid Rossendale Railway. There were two trunks of arching on the
line, one of 130 yards, aid the other of 170 yards.
It would also touch the Leeds and Manchesier Extension
One r.f the branches, the Ormski.k, was three miles long, and
would connect the towns of Ormskirk and Southport. There
was another, the Haig branch. The total length of the main line
was 301 A miler. The Ormskirk branch was in length 3 miles
3 furlongs 65 yards ; the Haig branch 1 mile 4 furlongs and 10
yards; the great Lenen branch, near Bolton, a quarter of a mile
long—making a total of 5 miles and 1 furlong. The total main
line and branches was 35 miles and 5 furlongs in length. The
gradients were on the whole good, about 1 in 100 on the main
line, on the Bury about I in 150, on the Ormskirk about 1 in 115,
and on the Haig branch about lin 186. There were many of the
Sdetch railways which had much worse gra,lents. The estimated
cost of the whole line was 912,0001., of which the main line had
cos. 07;,24e1., an i the branches the liifrerercc. Considered the
line woukl he, oil the whole, very advantageous to the commercial
community of this part of the country. There was much delay on the
Leeds end Meechoter Railway, and the projected line was most
desirable. Die snipping stages at Liverpool would cost 1,0001.
each ; the brauc!: from the terminus to the docks 108,0001.
• The cross-examination of this witness was 'commenced by Mr.
Sergeant &lasts, :but had not terminated when the Co.i.mittee
adjourned, at four o'clock.

GROUP T,
WPM:: '," L0N.7.10:a .A."2:10 PO/MIS:7I2OIT Ell

and si
sell env

TI").: OSP HERZe IZAILIVAY.

...,:it:ee re-uiE.embied this morning at twelve o'clock,
[3, after proceeded with the consideration of the above

Several witness-2s, whose evidence was not publicly interesting,

having been examined,
Mr. RAWLINS calk(' Mr. James Foster, of Godalming, who
stated that he dealt to a very great extent annually in groceries
and other articles of produce, which he punctually obtained
from the City and the warehouses in Thames street. He should
gre:dly prefer the atmospheric line to the South-Western Railway,
as the Atmospheric Company proposed to have a terminus at
London-broke, which would be much more convenient 'for his
business than the South. Western Railway, as the terminus of that
railway was at Vauxhall. In the opinhn he now expressed re.
garding the eligibility of the atmospheric line he was confirmed by
most of the merchants and grocers of Godalming.
Mr. Staffbrii, corn-factor, at Godalming, was next examined—
He deposed generally as to the great advantage which would be de-
rived to his business from the construction of the atmospheric line,
as its terminus would be at London-bridge, and the expense of
conveyance would be cheaper than any of the present modes of
transmission

Mr. Moon, waggon master, Godalming, stated that he conveyed
annually considerAb.e numbers of cattle to London. There were
some other waggon.masters in the vicinity of Petersfield and
Godalming, who ccnveyed, on the average, to London, about
10,000 sheep and 1,000 calves annual y. They also brought a large
snantity of groceries and other traffic. from London, to Godalming
Mid its neighbourhood. It the atmospheric railway were con-
structed it .oukl destroy his trade, as the goods would be trans_
mitten at so low a rate, that he could not keep his waggons on
the rail

Mr. Madeley, leather dresser, near Gadalming, said there was
a great deal of water power in the neighbourhood of Godalming,
which, by a more scientific management of its capabilities, might
be increased 20 per cent. His opinion and that of his neighbours
was decidedly in favour of the atmospheric line.
On cross-examination he said that the gauge of the line near
his manufactory would occasion considerable inconvenience, as the
smoke and soot from the engine would be likely to fall on the
leathers exposed in the yard, and spoil their surface, and render a
new dress necessary.

Mr. Britton said he transmitted great quantities of hoops and
other material to London, the cost of conveying which averaged,
including pa'sage by canal and cartage, about 14s. per ton. If
the atmospheric line were constructed at least one-half in the ex.
pence of carriage would be saved.
The examination of these witnesses elicited only similar
evidence to what had been adduced yesterday.
The Committee adjourned at four o'clock.

GROUP LL.
THE LONDON AND SOUTH-WESTERN
(DIETIZOPOLITAN EXTENSION).

than ha-Thug it on the other side of the river, as it would
be on the ccitca‘e side of the river, and consequently would
be nearer to the thrLc bridges. If it were on the convex
side, though it in'ght be as near one bridge, would be
very distant from the others. The length of the extension to the
York.road was two miles, and he estimated that the expense, in-
cluding the amount of 45,0001. stated by Mr. Tite, would be
800,0004 leaving 35,000/. for engineeringcxpensfs. Toe witness then
entered into a detail of the benefits ,\ hich would be derived by
what might be termed the middle metropolis and the western
metrotmlis, from this extension.

The witness then underwent a cross-examination by Mr. M.
CIIANitIpAS, (luring which his evidence remained unshaken, after
which the Committee adjourned.

,~`~s L.

••v/

The Committee on this group sat this morning at twelve o'clock,
and proceeded to hear evidence in favour of this extension.
Mr. Tile was the first witness called. The general tendency of
his evidence went to prove that there were no engineering difficul.
ties. He stated that the 'expense for the purchase of property
would amount to 4011,0001.
Mr. M. CHAMBERS then cross-exameied the witness, with a view
to prove thd, though the preamble of the Bill stated that the ex.
tension was beneticial to the community generally, yet it would be
injurious to a very large body, and particularly to Mr. Smith, the
proprietor the Be:videre brewery.
Mr. J. Locke was next called. He said that be was the en.
gineer-in.chief of the South. Western Railway, and he constructed
the greater ra,t of the line. He concurred with Mr. Tite in think-
ing that the proper mode of con.tructiug th intended extension
would be on a viaduct. The ground was favourable to the con-
struetion of a railway, All the minor streets would be crossed with
one span. Sir James M'Adam approved of his mode of crossing.
There would be no impotent crossing until th y got to West-
minster-brilge.road, which they would cross with three arches.
They would cross the York-road with three arches, or one, but he
preeerred three. He would construct the station entirely upon
arches, putting the platforms and everything upon thcm It would be
20 feet above the level of the road. They intended that the de-
scent sbcu.d be made by an inclined road. He thought that it
would be most favourable to have the terminus near the
li.,rgerforct-bridge. It would lie much better

G N.
TEE CORNWALL, R
AND WEST CORNWALL
AND ST. IVES RAILWAYS.
At the sitting of the Committee Mr. AUSTIN said, before the
Committee gave their formal decision in the case of the Cornwaq and West Cornwall Railways, he wished to make a few observa_
tions with respect to the latter
pshecrht
recollect, with reference to that The Committee would
scheme. The
the West Cornwall, be-
tween Redruth and Trey anus portion of the Hayle
Railway, and which was opposed Icon wasthe aground that no powers
were elven ill their Act to amalgamate it with the West Coni.
presented to the House of
wall—a petition had been
Commons, praying the House toempower them to introduce
that proviolon into the Hayte Railway
rt.
edlt was referred to the
ite
et to h
atth et
hSattanin
Committee on Petitions ; they had ref:
Orders Committee, and he had reason torbet
Com-
mittee would make a favourable report, and etherefore they would
be enabled to remedy this defect. This was exceedingly important,
as the Committee must have come to an adverse decision with re-
spect to that line for the reasons he had mentioned; or, it were
on the estimates, he would call their attention to the evidence of
captain Moorsom.
The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Macaulay) said, I think you are rather
going beyond the limit. We cannot, with propriety, hear a speech
—I hare no doubt an able one—in defence of your railway, when
the case on both sides has been closed.
Mr. AUSTIN said he was not going to make a speech, he was
merely making a kind of application with reference to future pro-
ceedings, and with reference to an application to Parliament, next
session for instance. Would they permit him to say that the fur-
ther consideration of the West Cornwall Bill was suspended until
the Committee had taken up and brought to a conclusion their deli.
berwion on the Cornwall dill. He wished, therefore, to make this ap-
plication before the Committtee gave their decision. It appeared to his
elis is that the subject would be left in a state of great perplexity
th 4 lafFelicquainted with the ground on which the Corn.
"'inittee-had.couicrt,their decision.
The Ct344IIOIAN said, Mr. Austin could cot expect that they
should itate the exact grounds of their decision.

Mr. AvsTr:c said be thenzht that there might have been some
misunderstanding on the part of the Committee, more particularly
with reference to the Hayle Railway.
The CIIIIIVIAN—The Committee hove fully considered the whole
of the case, and cannot state the reasons which influenced them.
Mr. AUSTIN repeated that his clients were anxious to know
the nature of their objections, for the purpose of satisfying their
shareholders, and with reference to the future course to be taken.
He was anxious to impress the importance of this on the Corn-
mittee.
The Cztarnmear said he was prepared to give the decision of the
Committee, and in doing so he thought it right to say, that they
had not arrived at it without the most serious consideration which
they could give is the case, and old not think that anything had
escaped their attention. The Committee considered that the pre-
amble of the Cornwall Bill had been proved, and that the preamble
of the West Cornwall Bill had not been proved.
Mr. AUSTIN said it was clear that the St. Ives Railway de-
pended on the West Cornwall line, and as that line had been
objected t., he should not trouble them with it, and should con-
sequently withdraw it.
Mr. C. Legh, one of the Committee, said that the whole of the
western scheme would have to be deferred for another year.

The clauses, with some amendments, were then agreed to, and
the Committee adjourned until to.morrow, when
THE SOUTU DEVON BILL
will be proceeded with.