The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-21 00:00:00

• weeds returns were ordered by the House, and by
them he learned that the Bill of the Noble Lord (Stan-
-. ley) would. materially diminish the franchise;
he made up his !hind that •• he' would no
• longer' support it. It as idle in those days
to pin men don n in their . opinions. or fetter
them too closely in. their -•actions. He did
not wish to trouble the House with .his interpreta-
- -.tion of the. Catholic oath, but he must be permittoi to
• express his regret that the Noble Lord '(Stanley) had
- -thought proper -to allude to it.—(Hear, hear.) He
could- not agree that the Catholic Members banded to-
gether in that House for the purpose of injuring the Vro-
- testant Church; on the contrary, they relinquished fOr
the last two years the advantages their position gave
them, for the purpose of pursuing their favourite sys-
tem. of agitation.. The great point now was what the
• • Government proposed to do. • He wished the Right
honourable. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) would take the
same course in regard to the Irish Church that he had
done in regard to commerce ; and he particularly de-
sired that he would announce his intentions. If he
would make from time in time in that Church the same
Steady and safe alterations and ameliorations as he had
• done in our commercial code, the difficulties new
experienced in Ireland would soon begin gra-
dually to disappear.—(Hear, hear.) He did not
taunt the late Government with not carrying the ap-
propriation clause into effect. The Noble Lord,
when he found he could not carry it out, very wisely
abandoned it. The Catholic question stood on quite dif-
.. • ferent grounds from this motion, which involved a most
unjust attack on the Government.
• Several Hon. Members here rose together, but the
Speaker called On
• Mr. GISBORNE, who said he did not think that, after
.five nights' debate, the point was much farther advanced
then it.was at first. It was almost unavoidable that. it
should be so. In the speeches that had been made by
' members. of the Government—and he did not under-
value their merit—they had claimed far themselves
. every good intention with regard to Ireland; they had
laid claim to kindness and calmness in their general
Policy, and to fairness in their administration of justice,
• as well as impartiality in the distribution of the Govern-
ment patronage. 'These were their intentions. He
ibultd it universally stated. by travellers and writers of
-all nations who had visited Ireland, that there was no
' • - nation in the world with whom a little kindness
Went so far se with the Irish people. As far as the ad•. rainistrative measures of the Government had gone
• ' It had laidelaim to-kindness, forbearance,- and impar-
On the other side they had a grateful, n gene-
- • ,_roes, and a confiding people; to that character of them
tno„. Recorder of Dublin had borne testimony. He would
•ISIt :them whether they found in Ireland the national
results of this combination ? They would expect under
these circumstances to find.lreland in a state of. peace
• ' 4J Id, Prosperity. They would expect to find the people
wring in confidence under such rulers. They would
" "Peet to find them enjoying all the blessings which a
country could enjOy. under - a beneficent Govern-
' - Mont. -If this was not the . case surely. they
must look on - the Hon. Gentlemen opposite as
•• the most unrOrtuisate of men. - Surely they were
good 'Men 'suffering _jiinclei adieuilly,: .if all the
.gooCiets which it was their intention to have brought
!,43 bear on the Irish. people, had failed. He saw in this
'act a eater reason for supporting the motion of the
Noble Lord-thaninany speech he had heard addressed to
the
e.--pus- If the Government had failed, having such
Ewa
-intentions, surely it•was time for the House to ex-
amine if there was not something radically wrong in-the
°Mem by which, .it .;was Carried on. 'When the Go-
succeeded to office, the first thing they did was
aPPoint-to the judicial bench two fierce political par-
' „-Sans. He would say nothing with respect to their fo
• • *etude .
position, or. of the excellence of their pri-
' vats character i•but •this the Government could not
teeny, that for many years, in that House; they
• ere violent partisans. Suppose Mr. O'Connell had
iliNs_eh tried before Mr. Sergeant_ Jackson and Baron
ViL_FOY; would any one have expected an impartial trial?
07. respect to their other appointments, the defence
11` .tae Government 'was _this, that though' they could
.t•alr° winhed. 'to have appointed Catholics to situa-
,nseethe material• did not exist ; among the Catho-
- 7M' Ireland there'did not exist persons fit for these
JlKuninienta. .This. was another -calamity of the Go-
retrunent, which- was only demonstrative of the situa-
, „hi__ which they were placed when they-
..e:megtook the government -of that country. • It
oas • Precisely. the same • with other events.
ibTa calamity after another seemed to fall on this un-
s-PPy Government... In. the first place, when they de-
, :reap"Vs_
", to try Mr. O'Connell, wishing to show the
eoc'st tairness, they determined not to try him by the
• ion panel, because that, they said, they could have
Tilect• Now surely they might have tried hint by the
re-i4l,l_non penel without packing it. But perhaps it
• ut be that the Government did not wish to establish
offs a Precedent as that of trying a man for a political
th.ace, in Ireland, without
ff packing the common jury; so
e•
tetermined to put oothe trial in order that they
mil
have a fair jury. Here, again, calamity followed
.eme :Without any fault on the part of the Recorder—
Without
any neglect on his part—almost without any
Recorder—
fault •
'n Puy body,. the :virtuous intention.of the Go-
. le,riennent was again disappointed. By some means or
`l7. r a certain sheet of the list of the jury was lost, on
as.the Reeorder of Dublin-stated, almost all the
domes were those oflloman Catholics. 'But they could
• see
-,the extent'of the misfortunes that fell on the Go-
‘ernment till.they-came. to the striking off of 48 names
• • .1•0
1., tu the jury list. When this imperfection of the panel was
„,.‘lct before the Lord Chief Justice, ho said it was of no
m'quenee. The law prescribed the strict mode in which
Taeeial jury panel should be formed in Ireland.
n„'s panel had not been formedin that manner, it had
,Ylit been formed according to law, and yet the Chief
stice said it was a good- one, at least, it was good
*eon
e; gh to try these traversers by. When the forty-
v-,g't names were drawn, the Government—its bowels
ea—„„r°,,ing to give civil equality to the people of Ireland—
ml. &jury to be challenged, and that excellent person
were I?rnrais struck off nine•• Catholics, of whom eight
• it,s, h'a'pellers, or contributors to the Repeal fund. But
unknowPoPtotmedrth„.ere was another Catholic on the list,
names out of Now, if they struck nine
marning,,.and i.l- eight there would.be thirty-nine re-
f t
ouse conifer, here were any gentlemen in the
odds, they san, t with what were called the
elle' against °ula gee that, it was thirty-eight-. to:
Mr-' tienimis Remm is hitting on - this Catholic.
got him. He dived amongst the 39
.names for the one Roman Catholic, not -knowing that
hethere, and- be picked - him out.—(Laughter.)
only this wall one ot the most singular coincidences
he longuer heard f 4..„ •He had heard of persons " taking
area and never winning—(Laughter)--but here
one eno, ' at the very first draw, drawing the
pcsse;`l.°He•--(Laughter.) • Mr. liemmis must certainly
another ver-magnetic fingers.—(Laughter.) This was
Rh
of calamities of the Government. Then the
the trial Hen. Gentleman said he was most anxious to have
. Metter t conducted with great moderation, and he wrote
• lie was 0 the A ttorney-General for Ireland on that point,
which ex_l(,)t going, to say anything of certain occurrences
• did been mentioned in that House, but the result
the it• correspond .to the wish so strongly expressed by
'gilt Hon Gentleman. The 'last misfortune of the
Cerament
hief J was owing to the speech of the Learned
It eon,. who certainly made a. stronger speech for
(Itear:"lon than the Attorney or Solicitor-General.—
obteniedllear, and laughter.) No, though st• conviction
fewip_ in the way this had been obtained might gratify
• h) som_range partizans—though it might afford a triumph
thee, „.7, of their supporters—though it might enable
•at woMinprison Mr. O'Connell with the other traversers,
ebteiatran not Produce peace to Ireland, nor would it
'lorry itore re- spect for the law.—(Hear, hear.) He was
toes wer_vas admitted on his side of the House that per-
feelers. be struck off the jury because they were Re-
•relend :t was admitted that seven-eighths of the people of
uht of tere Repeaters, and therefore they Must be struck
Iv tee list
t, rt:t4 Sttid t, upon all occasions like the present. It
4he: thiher th„ that a Repealer would fast himself to death
ak, ere „ -17( bring in a verdict for conviction ; hut were
k, belve„-,° persons on the other side who would fast theta-
torii44;knirse appeared Proper !_st.eath rather than acquit?—(Hear, hear.) The
to him to be to strike off known
rd ti3/4," ~.Oh both sides.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble
juti"ecretary for the Colonies, who was not in his
a solieitoru„l7 were struck off -by the Crown Solicitor
ty of r his clients. They all knew what the
Itttora,
emit by an Ya was toward& their clients. It was to
y _
_means which the very questionable mo-
r the law left open to them.—(Hear,
I km
" - laugh.) The Noble Lord was so
'" Jerk 4e'd °F the
fta , of
t, idea of winning,- that he called the
Crown the. "_clerk of the course."---
"-
segved ono He 'tight Hon. Gentleman said that he
off of the Roman Catholics who had been
to be a ,
• AssZttavit th, -"sPealer, because, though he swore in
pea,-station he
was . not a member of the Repeal
ter. To ne did not swear that he was not a It
„ 'Mt arn,..a.--1 to as -e"raoti wee r-t''him to be much the same as
e,...0p0n his told " I saw you in .Pall-mall to-day,"
Ned told oklnllEing• an affidavit that he was not there
aeZnot fence" but you were in Russell-square." He
asi nflokent
w" confidence in the measures which the Go.
te4Passe„pe Wld Propose for Ireland. They reminded him'
tie rch he had latelyread in a letter of Crom-
(l7,, these. ~w_nted to get some law reforms, and he
thirur inst_urn!ions --" There is mention in the last part
jtict of your purpose to do many good
ZiZte kis lase__,Ptt will not be like the gentleman who
no 3'4'eretO will, and set down a great-number of men
oeetttnin th7e,?lve benefits from him, and there was
Attie ares of ti;' latter end." So with regard to those
The at the I: tvovernmect;
4114,nttes
0,, to do manir they seemed to have "no
thei Proposed tttr erld."—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
good things, and set down
Itht frloleithe PeLople o Ireland who were to receive
e latter Inert)• but they had • "no sum
upon end."—(llenr, hear, and laughter:)
theol4°:hrehniealnhdekLandlord and Tena,ht-Commission as
ea 4 h he was never more convinced of it
44;1144.
84
boen rsnment-givilh's
4 °l:t
hthe Gol7:ra the Right Hon. Baronet at the
cordial approbation
:atal; on th bY the ight Hon. Member for
pee, to ha,_ e subject. The Right Hon. Baronet
,_
.I°r• the :acquired on a sudden a very great re-
the -*eel 0 -Pirtione of
ena 4' one otxasi the Hon. Gentleman. He re-
th9 said 4, entlernan
waosia during' the last 'session when
• ,lii at he aspeaking Upon some subject,
alspei:s"t 6:-.‘"4" N‘-ith another Hon. Gentleman.
ert, k Intended Gentleman, in one of those stage
Sir R. 11.? you 4,..L° heard, said, "It is the first time
h kr, c„;!,Etr.,,:',. Egree with any one."—(Laughter.)
Arn,r4blt_oitiiituld.tiot say what you attribute tome.
Y beli Sald that, when he used the words,
biae Ried its h eyed that
t Hon they were the exact words used
ntent• tTentlettian Government had de-:
f4lllll*-ellt• of upholding the Irish Church Este-
. hetel4rylee,,.la, non. and Gallant Friend the Member
ti,_ou Sind had stated th Wa, e, that e other-evenin in the de-
artot 0, but games' was not tow the fashion to de-
Is•bli;-° Godered t
atc- ^brata t
.hat this declaration on the
t t, was e Maintaining, the Irish Church
44cland It quo
to a declaration of war
" a great evil,- which they could