The Sun.
London, England, 1844-05-01 00:00:00

CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAILWAY.

Mr. GLADSTONE in moving, pursuant to notice
that he had given, that Sir George Clerk be added to
the Committee on the Chester and Holyhead Railway
Bill, took occasion-to-explain, as the appointment of a
Member holding office to a Committee was rather, of
rare occurrence, that it was necessary to have certain
public interests_
,represented on -the Committee for
the -adjustment of certain points connected with
the Bill ; and hence he proposed the- ad-
dition of Sir -George Clerk to the Committee.
He regretted that he was obliged to make this" motion
later than usual, but at the same time he believed no in-
convenience would arise, because his Hon. Friend, if
appointed by the House, would not interfere in the ge
neral discussion as to the course of the railroad, but
would confine himself to stating the views of Mr. Walker.
On the question being put,
Captain MANGLES said that he believed it was most
unusual and contrary to the rule upon which Commit-
tees were constituted, to make such an appointment at
such a period. He understood it was probable the Com-
mittee would come to a decision that afternoon, but if
the Hon. Gentleman was appointed, the Committee
would be obliged to sit for a longer, period, and the
expenses would be thereby increased. The Committee
would give as much consideration to any representation
on the part of the Government, without the Hon. Gen-
tlemen, as they would if he were present.
Sir R. PEEL said they were now going to establish
one of the most important lines of railway in the coun-
try, by which Dublin would be brought within four-
teen or fifteen hours of the metropolis. The Go-
vernment had already been at great expense in re-
ference to this line—they had sent naval officers
to report upon the nature of the coast and har-
bour, and engineers of the highest eminence to report
upon the line. A report had been made which was of
very considerable value and importance. If the line
was to be establisbed, and if it was to have the con-
currence of the Government, and to be followed by
an expenditure of two, or three, or four hundred
thousand pounds for the purpose of making
Holyhead a perfectly safe harbour, he (Sir R. Peel)
did feel that the public had such an interest in it as to
justify the Government in desiring to be represented in
the Committee upon the Bill. But he would ask,
had Mr. Walker, one of the gentlemen em-
ployed by the Government, been examined by the
Committee ? (Captain Mangles was understood to say
"No.") Then he must say the Government were most
anxious that he should be examined. So important did
he consider this proposed railway to the public that he
felt the Government should have a representative in
the Committee on this Bill.

Mr. LABOUCHERE fully agreed with the Right
Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel), that it was of the
greatest consequence that in Committees, where the
public interests were directly involved, the Government
should have a representative. He recollected, that
when the Liverpool Docks Bill was in Committee, he
had felt it his duty, as President of the Board of Trade,
to apply to the Committee of Selection to be
allowed to have a member of the Government
upon that Committee. And the Right Honourable
Gentleman should, in the present instance, have applied
at the proper time to the Committee of Selection and
not to that House. He doubted whether the House had
the power to appoint a Member. to the Committee, ar,d
that if one were appointed as a representative of the
Government, he should have the power to vote. , On
this point, the Speaker would, perhaps, assist them
with
his opinion.
The SPEAKER (as we understood) stated -that
apprehended the Right Hon. Baronet could not -vote M.
the Committee without signing the declaration.
Mr. MARSHALL wished to know from the Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade the reason for proposing' the
Right Hon. Baronet at the present time ?
Sir R. PEEL made a few observations that were; in
audible in the gallery.
•
Capt. MANGLES said if there would be no expenSive.
delay in the addition of Sir George Clerk, he should not
object to the appointment.
Mr. HUME thought they ought to be obliged to the
Government for proposing the Right Hon. Baronet.
Mr. F. SHAW considered that it was very important
for the interests of Ireland that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man should be on the Committee.
Mr. FRENCH considered that the railroad could
never be constructed unless they obtained the assistance
of the Government ; and, therefore, he thought it most
important that the Right Hon. Gentleman should be on
the Committee.

The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. GLADSTONE moved that Mr. Walker's Report
be referred to the Committee.—Agreed to.
NOTTINGHAM IMPROVEMENT BILLS.

On the motion of Mr. T. DUNCOMBE, the Notting-
ham (West Croft Canal) Improvement Bill, and the West
Croft Nottingham Inclosure Bill, were respectively read
a second time.
V ENTNOR IMPROVEMENT BILL.

The Ventnor Improvement Bill was read a second time.
MESSAGE Filoll THE LORDS.

Messengers from the Lords brought down certain Bills.
NOTICES OF;MOTION.—DETACHED PARTS OF

COUNTIES BILL.

Mr. COLVILE gave notice that in Committee on
the detached parts of Counties Bill, he should propo,e
certain amendments.
DUCHY OF CORNWALL.

__Sir lI—PEEL_ gave notice that, this day fortnight, he
would move for leave to bring in a Bill for defining and
regulating the rights of the Duchy of Cornwall.
IMPORT. DUTIES.

Mr. COBDEN postponed to this day week, the motion
of which be had given notice for this evening, on the
subject of the Import Duties.
THE FRANCHISE.

Mr. SHARMAN _CRAWFORD gave notice that he
would on Tuesday, the 14th of May, propose a measure
for the extension of the franchise.
WELSH TOLLS. •

Colonel WOOD postponed to Wednesday, May 15,
the motion of which he had given notice on the subject
of tolls on lime in Waifs.

Captain PECHELL wished to know from the Right
Hon. Gentleman, the Cancellor of the Exchequer whe-
ther any additional facility had been afforded to those
persons, whose income being under 1501., had been taxed
for the income tax, to enable them to get back the sums
deducted from their small incomes. _ _

•-
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the greatest care had been taken to expedite the
returning of their money to those parties. Where delay
had occurred it arose from the parties themselves not
coming forward. If the Hon. Gentleman could point
out any case where unnecessary delay had occurred, he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should be happy to
remedy it.
JAVA SUGAR. _ . .

Mr. D. BARCLAY wished to know from the Right Hon.
Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) whether it was
his intention to admit Java sugar into this country upon the
same favourable footing that the sugar of Manila and Siam
was to be admitted? There was some doubt upon the point,
in consequence of the high duties imposed on articles of Britiah
,industry in Java ; and it would be well to have the doubt
cleared up before the departure of the Overland Mail.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he would take an early opportunity of bringing the subject of
the sugar duties before the House, and he would then explain
fully what were his intentions.
SHIPWRECKS COMMITTEE.

••
Lord INGESTRE wished to know from the Right Hon.
Gentleman (the Secretary to the Admiralty) when he would
bring in a Bill founded on the report of the Shipwrecks Com-
mittee; and also whether there was any intention of making a
provision for the periodical inspection of masters of ships and
masters' mates ? . _

Mr. S. HERBERT said that with regard to the subject of
the examination of masters of ships and masters' mates, it was
under consideration; and with regard to the other subject, it
was the intention of the Admiralty to carry the recommenda-
tion of the Committee into effect.
RECAL OF LORD ELLENBOROUGH.

Lord JOCELYN, seeing the Hon. Member for Beverley in
his place, wished :to know whether he was prepared, on the
part of the Directors of the East India House, to lay any
papers on the table of the House, with respect to the recal of
the Governor. General of Indial?—( Cheers. )
Mr. HOGG said, that he was not the organ of the Court
of Directors, and he had no authority to answer the ques-
tion,— (Hear, hear.) He had no objection however, as a mem-
ber. of that body, to state his own opinion, and having done so,
it would rest with the Ministers to determine, with reference
to the public interest, as to the propriety of the production of
papers in that House ; and as to the production of papers before
the Court of Proprietors, the Court of Proprietors would be
influenced by the course that Ministers should 'adopt. He
would venture, however, to express a hope, that in conse-
quence of what had occurred in another place, that the House
and the country would suspend their judgment upon the course
the Court of Directors had pursued.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. ASTELL trusted that the House and the country
would give the Court of Directors credit for having done their
duty. He agreed with what had been stated by his lion.
Friend.—( Hear, hear ) In consequence of what had occurred
in another plaee, he trusted the House and the country would
suspend their judgment.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME wished to know whether there would be any
objection to lay before the House a copy of the correspondence
which had taken place between the Government and the Court
of Directors on the subject. He thought the Court had acted
rightly, and he did not see why parties that had done so should
be blamed.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir B. PEEL said that with respect to the period when the
correspondence would be laid on the table he could give no in-
formation to the House.
Mr. HUME wanted only to know whether the Government
would lay the papers on the table or not?
To this question no answer was returned.
ATMOSPHERIC RAILWAYS.
Lord H. VIVIAN begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentle.
man, the Recorder of Dublin, whether it was his intention to
introduce a Bill on the subject of atmospheric railways?
Mr. SHAW said that there was now before Parliament a
Bill which would afford an opportunity of putting the princi-
ple to the test of experiment, upon a line of twenty-one miles.
RELIGIOUS TESTS IN UNIVERSITIES

(SCOTLAND.)
Mr. FOX MAULE rose, according to notice, to move for
leave to bring in a Bill to alter the law relating to oaths taken
by professors in the Universities of Scotland. The inconve-
nience occasioned by the present administration of oaths to
professors was so great, that he thought he was justified in t
once moving for leave to bring in a Bill, without any previous
step. He wished that the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
would meet him at once upon the principle, instead of object-
ing to the form of his proceeding. It was not his intention to
go into the whole question of university reform in Scotland,
which would open too wide a field; but he would confine him-
self entirely to the subject of the Paths administered
to those who hold offices in the universities.
He would read to the House an extract from the Act of Sc.
curity, which was passed in 1607, providing the test to be
taken by those who should thereafter hold office in the Uni-
versities of Scotland. (The Right Hon. Gentleman here read
the extract in question, by which it was provided that no pro-
fessor, principal, registrar, or other person holding office in any

of the universities, colleges, or sehoals of Scotland, should be s
permitted to exercise their functions, unless they should have
first acknowledged i he Civil Government as established. and pro.
fessed their belief in, and subscribed the Confession of Faith, and
worshipped in the Church, and submitted to the government and
the discipline thereof. Such were the provisions of the Act
of Security, and it had been at the staceestion of the professors
themselves for the time being, that all persons holding autho-
rity in the universities had been required to take this test.
Now, however illiberal and narrow-minded those opinions
might appear at the present day, he could find an excuse for
those who had enacted them. They were not directed against
any body of Dissenters, as the law was understood in the pre-
sent day ; they were not directed against the Roman Catholics.
The Scottish Universities were protected against them by the
penal laws. They were intended to preserve the religious
worship of the country. That Act of Security was confirmed
by the Act of Union, such confirmation having been insisted on
by the Scotch themselves. There were excuses to be made
for their insisting on the re-enactment of the Act of Security.
They reeollected the. persecutions which they, as Presbyterians,
had suffered under Charles the First. They recollected their
sufferings on account of th -ir religion in the time of Charles
the Second and James the Second. They could not but re•
member the 12000 Presbyterians who, in the latter persecu-
tions, had suffered death on account of their religion. All these
things were fresh in their memoe ice at the time of the passing
of the Act of Union, and when they were uniting themselves to
a Legislature composed of a majority of a nat ion professing a
faith which they had such reason to regard as hostile
to theirs, they were right to take care to guard themselves
against any attempt which might be made to subvert
their rational religion. That was the only excuse that
could be made for their insisting on the professors of
their own universities and colleges taking these tests.
How long this practice of administering the test had gone on
in the University of Edinburgh he could not say, but there had
not been for years to the lay professors any test administered.
Principal Rene, in his evidence, said that in Edinburgh Uni-
ver ity he was not aware that any lay professor had been
obliged to take the test. In the University of Aberdeen, since
1826, the tests had been strictly administered, but that previous
to 1826 there had been a laxity respecting these tests. In the
honorary offices of rector and dean no test had ever been ad-
ministered ; and, what cas still more singular, in the Uni-
versity of Aberdeen, the greater number of the lecturers who
taught the pupils to the fullest extent were subjected to no test.
The practice of administering this test had been in Aberdeen
and in Edinburgh productive of no benefit whatever, and the
absence of the test had been attended with no manner of in-
jury to the Established Church. If they looked to the nature
of the test, and considered the character of the Scotch ministry.
they would at once see there was no necessity what-
ever for its application. They were seminaries for
instruction in literature, science, medicine, and the
arts.—( Hear.) Little danger was to be apprehended
to the Established Church from this mode of education. He
did not contend that professors of divinity shonld be excluded
from the test—it was from lay professors, he contended, and the
administration of the test to them would give the Universities
a sectarian character. He had hoped that this practice of ad-
ministering the test would gradually fall into oblivion, but the
late unfortunate religious differences in Scotland had renewed
the question in all its bitterness. One of the most distin-
guished men in the Scotch Universities had already refused to
take the test, he l.ad been subjected to the grossest indignity
by being thrust from his distinguished position by the Estab-
lished Church, and it was quite clear that if the tests must
stand they must be universally and impartially administered to
all as well as to one. What would be the consequence of such
a step as this.' Why, all would be subjected to a confession of
• their faith, and the members of Glasgow, St. Andrew's,
Aberdeen, and Edinburgh Universities would be called upon to
sign the fbrinuk of the Church of Scotland, and either they
must record themselves members of that Church, they must
sacrifice their position, or abjure their conscientious opinions.
But that was not the only thing. It would also restrict them
hereafter to a most limited extent for their own basis. There
was, at the present moment, a vacant chair in the University
of Edinburgh, and the University and the public would be
deprived of the services of no less a man than Mr. Farraday,
because he would not subscribe to the rules of the Established
Church.—( Hear.) Then, if they looked to those chairs which
include the teaching of classics in the Scotch Universities,
they all knew very well, that the Heliconian spring did not
exist in Scotland, and were they to be refused the services of
the distinguished members of other Universities, because they
would not subscribe to the Confession of Faith of the Established
Church of Scotland ? He next came to the honorary offices in
the Universities. Great stress was laid on the necessity of
their being tests for those offices, or at all events of the per-
sins appointed to them being subject to be called on to sub-
scribe to the Confession of Faith. He believed, however, that
the, practice in all the Universities was never to require these
tests in• any honorary appointment. The appointment of the
.Right
,Hon. Gentleman opposite to the dignity of Lord Rector
of the University of Glasgow was an instance in which no test
Was required; and when he (Mr. Fox Maisie) was honoured
with the samesaffice for one year, he did not subscribe to any test
• The principle of the University of Glasgow was, that the test
should remain in force even with regard to honorary °Tees,
though it appeared the practice did not very well agree with
the theory. Last year he made inquiries respecting the
rules of the University, while passing through Glasgow, and
the principal held him disqualified because he would not sub-
scribe the tests ; but the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite,
when Lord Rector, presided at an election for a .professor of
divinity, and it was in fact, by his casting vote, that the
election had been decided in favour of Dr. Hill, though he
had taken no oaths, and it was well.known was directly opposed
to doing so.—( Hear.) lie did not think the House had ever
had an easier or a clearer case to deal with. The majority of
the professors in all the Scottish Universities were favourable
to the Bill, and he beli6red; with the exception of some in-
stances, in the Universities of Edinburgh and o' Aberdeen,
they had all expressed their opinion on the subject by ptitions
to that House. It should be spoken to their credit, that
they had had the liberality to banish the system of tests from
among them for many years past, and he would call on the
House to beware before they attempted to renew that system
again. By doing so they would raise up rival institutions,
from which professors favourable to the Established
Church would be banished ; and not only that,
but every individual educated in these institutions
would be brought up in rivalry and hostility
to the Established Church, whereas by being educated in the
present Universities with members of that Church, such feel-
ings would never be created amongst them. Perhaps
Members were not aware that the Established Church was at.
present the church of the minority of the people of Scotland.
In the year 1707 it was the religion of nearly the entire of
that people, but the time was past when a Scotchman could
boast of such being the case any longer. He did not make that
assertion without having gone through some calculations. On
looking into the report of the Church Education Committee,
it appeared that the proportion was about a million of Church-
men to half a million of Dissenters, but since the disruption
had taken place in the Church, he was not over the mark in
stating that 400,000 individuals had left the Established Church.
He would not ask the House to accede to his motion if he
thought it would affect the stability of the Church. He did
not want to lay any rude hands on her institutions, even
though he differed from her doctrines, but, on the contrary, in
submitting his motion to the House, he was convinced that the
test system, if allowed to continue, would not only endanger the
well-being of the University, but the permanence of the Church,
by raising up the rival establishments to which he had before re-
ferred. Now, he begged to state that he had no objection in the
Bill which he proposed to introduce for the purpose of relieving
professors from these tests, should it be desired by Honourable
Ger tlemen opposite to him, to introduce a sort of negative
test. That was, he was willing to insert a clause requiring
them to make a declaration that, in their c'asses and lectures
they would not teach anything which might tend to the pre-
judice or lead to the subversion of the Established Church.
He had no objection that professors should be re-
quired to do that, though he thought it was per.
fectly useless, because he knew that in the arts and
in the sciences the professors of the Universities of Scotland
were men who attended to their own business, and never at-
tempted to go out of their way to bring in subjects with which
their lectures had nothing to do. He should simply conclude
by entreating the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir J.
Graham) to weigh well the decision to which he ;you'd come.
He also entreated the House not to seal with its approbation
the revival of a system of tests which, perhaps, might have been
justified at the time it was adopted, but which, in the present
spirit of the age, was totally and entirely obnoxious to the feel-
ings of all men of liberal education, and which could be attended
with no good effect to the Established Church, but, on the
contrary, was calculated to pull down rather than to support
that venerable fabric.—( Hear. )
Sir A. LEITH HAY said he should very briefly second
the motion of his Right Hon. Friend ; and in doing so he per-
frothy agreed in all the arguments advanced by him, and in all
his opinions, more particularly in the one with which he had
concluded, that the measure now recommended to the House
was not calculated to weaken the foundations of the Church,
or to prejudice its interests, but rather to strengthen
the one and advance the other. He could assert that among
all the professors, past and present, of the Universities
of Scotland, not an instance could be found of a professor
introduciug tenets into his lectures foreign to the subject which
he was appointed to teach. The question would not have been
mooted, but for the unhappy divisions which had occurred in
the Church of Scotland; but as they had occurred, it was
doubly necessary that something should be done upon the sub-
ject. If the course now suggested were adopted, he was satis-
fied it would tend greatly to soothe asperities, and to soften
those unhappy differences which had shaken Scotland to its
foundation. He thought the Right Honourable Gentle-
man opposite ( Sir James Graham) must nuw greatly
regret the supineness he had shown on the subject of
the Scotch Church ; for he must by this time have found
that that delay had been the most prejudicial thing that
had ever happened to Scotland, and, in his ( Sir A. L. Hay's)
opinion, it would be more prejudicial still. He therefore
trusted that the Right Hon. Baronet would now assist in allay-
ing the animosities, and hindering, as much as possible, the
consequences of the shocking and lamentable disruption which
had taken place. The House must recollect that the adherents
of the Established Church of Scotland did not now amount to
more than one-third of the population. This made the qnes-
tion of these tests mare important than ever. He therefore
trusted leave would be given to bring in this Bill, so that there
might come down to their country, and fill the chairs of their
professors, men of the highest eminence from this, and who,
under the present circumstances, were unable from their reli-
gion to do so.
On the question being put that leave be given to bring in
a Bill,_ _

Sir J. GRAHAM said, in the commencement of the ob-
servations he should address to the House, he would take leave
to notice a point which had been alluded to in the early part of
the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had introduced
the subject before them. He must say that, in a matter like
this, which was avowedly to affect the Etablished Church of
Scotland, and which was in connection with the fundamental
article of the Act of Union, he thought the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had done well in avoiding a resolution of the House,
and in preferring to ask leave to bring in a Bill upon the sub-
ject. However, he thonght his Right Hon. Friend had shown
very sound judgment, but beyond this he would not go, for be
was sorry to say he felt it his duty decidedly to ppose the mo-
tion just submitted from the Chair. He, however, must admit
the historical truth with which the Right Hon. Gentleman had
introduced his case ; and with respect to the policy which ori-
ginally suggested these tests, there was no material difference
between them. He now wished to remind the House that
they were invited to deal with a matter which had been so-
lemnly settled by the Scotch Parliament, which formed the
fundamental article of the Union, and which the treaty of Union
declared to be indispensable. The treaty made that declaration
in the strongest manner, and in words which admitted of no
misrepresentation whatever—not that he (Sir J. Graham) was
going in the present day to argue that because at a far distant
period something had been declared fundamental that it should
for ever be immutable— but what he should contend for was
that changes should not be made nn any slight ground, or upon
any trivial occasion. Least of all did he think they ought to
tamper or meddle with that which, having originally been de-
clared fundamental, was still held in the same regard by a vast
mass of the population of Scotland of the present day. For
this matter came under the consideration of Parliament in
the year 1826, and in the year 1830 a report had
been presented, signed by the names of some of the
most eminent men that had ever been sent from
Scotland to that House. The Members on that Committee
concurred in recommending not only that the tests should not
be discontinued, but that they should be more vigorously ap-
plied.—(Hear, hear.) Now he thought when he reminded
the House that this system of tests was the fundamental article
of the Union, and when he quoted the opinion justrefisried 6),
the House would be slow to disapprove the course which he

(Sir J. Graham) felt-it his duty to pursue.. In vain hs
.41
listened to the speech of the Right Honourable Gentletat's
for an enunciation of the grievances o, casioned by it. l'1.°„1,
trace of a grievance had he set heard of, and most atterlt2;c_noi
had he listened to all that had been uttered. But the 11°„
Gentleman, to justify his assertion that he would be no parl
to any measure which should be prejudicial to the Church,
which assertion he k Sir J. Graham) most unfeignedly gore
lieved—had declared that he would offer no objection to !,_°,6
of negative test or declaration on the part of professors. meet
he Sir J. Graham) could understand very well what
meant, but ho was really at a loss to understand what
jab
meant by a negative test. He must be permitted to say, th° td
it could be shown, he believed, that in all the Universities,_
Scotland honorary members were exempt from
tes'—ot,
though it could be shown that in the University of 6,11,g1
Episcopalians had filled the professor's chair—yet t.°„e_AY the
taken the test. No teacher in Glasgow had. DU" bj
chair without taking the test. ThougliEpiscoralls°
been admitted either by sufferance, or avowedly " tr
the professor's chair, yet, up to the present time, no PresbY of
rian dissenter had been admitted into the Universitiestbs
Scotland. He (Sir J. Graham) would not now enter into 5
it Wa
secession—he deplored it—it was a great misfortune— .001
extensive—most extensive ; and he was desirous that no
should fall from him that should exasperate that secesslt
Now, it was with peculiar pleasure that he heard the Bigthe
Hon. Gentleman state, that though he had seceded from hit
Establishment—and he (Sir J. Graham) considered that to
loss to it was great indeed—yet, having seceded from it; ;t.
was not its enemy, and would not do anything to subvert"tio
He (Sir J. Graham) was sorry to say that that was a°
languageog
languae of some of the seceders. Men had been found alet-e3
them who had declared themselves the enemies of the Establiotot
Church of Scotland, and stated that they considered thathisb
Erastian Establishment, as they called it, was a nuisance "Goss
ought to be abated. He was sorry that the Right 11°e"
-01 e.
tleman had brought forward his motion at the present tltai
He had told the House that no Presbyterian Dissenters ;at
been admitted into the Universities of Scotland. Dr°,l9;sits
was the nature of the patronage of those Universities, sag' „"est
held it? It had been held by the members of the (hate; by
Corporations; but at the present time It might be he"' of
men who preferred Dissenters to fill the different allot
those Universities, unless some tests existed. If a Oasetbsi
was appointed to those chairs, who could
he would teach his own peculiar views.—( Hear, b.!. ie
He did not think there was any great evl.
the establishment of rival institutions to which. Disse; be
might go and obtain the best education. On the contrariitet
thought. rivalri would have tee best effect. It was a 'ties
of primary importance that the connection of the Unlierbese
with the Church should remain. It was very true tha,t.„;
tests were erected against the danger of Episcopacy; hiS
cause that danger had ceased, it would be most unwise, las
opinion, to remove them. Those tests were available agates
Presbyterian Dissenters seeking to ,obtain a defile°
repon
doubt
r.)
the Scotch Universities. Those tests had existedP fora
trl
tury and a half, and some of the first men in thisfilieStitetht:
connected with science and the arts had
chairs of those Universities, notwithstanding these to
very many men of eminence, among whom he might ine‘in bls
Lord Melbourne, the Marquis of Lansdowne, and the Pgecot.
Lord, the Member for the City of London, had gone t°.'tiot•
land for the purpose of receiving part of their education, tip
withstanding these tests ; and he (Sir J. Graham) I°slo
fled that if they would only leave the matter untoucbc- for
would go well. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Mewbeffestst
Perth had asked whether they were prepared to revive "-Ise
It was not a question of revival, but whether they should s,ts,
lish tests which had existed for a hundred and UV latiseS
The Right Hon. Gentleman had alluded to several Pet.,'"tioas
from the Scotch Universities, but so far from those Pe' 91" ere
being in favour of the proposed measure, they , of
against the change.--( Hear, hear.) In short, tnanJtesis
the petitions stated that the removal of the. b 1
would have the effect of destroying the Universitiist
driving away their scholars. The Hon. and Gallant Ge,„nios.
man who rescinded the motion talked of the spread of se's
Why it was only that very day that he had seen, in Dud re'
newspaper, that a Scotch clergyman who had seceded brute,)
turned to the Church.—( Hear, hear, from Mr. Fox 512„a to
The Right Hon. Gentleman, perhaps, might be prepar'
prove that it was not so.
Mr. FOX MAULE—No, no. so/ t°
Sir J. GRAHAM was glad to see that they must eO-,t ss
the turning point, and secession must be considere,dioasseitb!i

end.—(Hear,
hear.) He hoped before the debate clot- sob'
would hear what Scotch Members had to say upon the ad
ject. They had still in that House many whose naneSsoat'
ancestors were eminently connected with the history 0f till
land; and he hoped that they would give their evidence n""4-je
and fairly in favour of the Church of their ancestors• their
thought that, as Scotchmen, they should proceed seitteeser
usual caution upon this important question. As a binh'olste
the Crown, bound as far as in him lay to maintain in'''ott
the Presbyterian Church as established in Scotland, be
oppose the introduction of the Bill. Geeei
Mr. RUTHERFORD agreed with the Right .01'o n
tleman, that this entirely was a Scottish question, an" 7 eV
most vital importance, and before he entered into the IP 114,
of the case, he -must express a wish that the Right 11.970 his
ronet opposite, would not lay " the flattering unction„l-01
soul," that any alteration had taken place in the gee'„aer
of the people of Scotland, with respect to this secession wore
tion. It was supposed that the Clergy of Scotlan?oge
mercenary men, and would not give up their ssioa
Look to what had been thelresult. There had been a seetiu
of more than one half of them from the Church. The 'the
was no longer what it was in the towns of Scotland, or ;00
country amongst the rural population. It was no longer an the
as the Church of Scotland—(Hear, hear)—which o',.„„e of
churches in the, world had most closely united the atfee''‘,7 ties
the people to it.—( Hear, hear.) That which
vi!stll°,r'ehilf,6
Established Church of Scotland was the church 0f
rity—aye, and not a very large minority.—( Cheers"), of the
who travelled through Scotland might read the sign count"'
times, for they could not move through the,
of the
without seeing everywhere the consequences hear.)
secession, even in the southern counties.—(nheuaii't hy.
otb:„
There were 700 churches in course of being
seceding party, and the suns which had been subscribed:l,oo
far beyond what had been calculated upon.—(Hear, P iota
Larger subscriptions were given for the support of the chaT
than were given before the secession. The application 01_104
test to the admission of teachers to the Universities struck'.
two-thirds of the population of Scotland. H
case of Dr. Brevvster, a man of an European fame—( the
hear)—ot undoubted eloquence, and whose attachment
Church-of Scotland was undoubted, to show hew seal-o'olo
this test was applied. Because he seceded from the Cherreatioo
wag assailed by intolerant opponents, and the aPP`i es.)
He would quoteletar:
of the test was insisted on in order to oust him.--(Chielee be
He referred to this case to show how the test won' nly A
allowed to operate if they did not, in good time, aPLrist
remedy.—(l-tear, hear. ) He trusted that the linraocl
Parliament would hold the balance between both partie,,cotel,
that English Gentlemen would look upon this as a t.e act
question. The Right Hon. Gentleman referred to t"The
of 1707 as the ground on which he opposed the motiont' the
Right Hon. Gentlemen, at first, seemed to doubt whetlease
system of tests was good or not, and whether the toed
ought not to deal with the question ; but he lor
a secet
round at the end, and said that lay and
Par ad
teachers could be likely to instil their own Pst foal
doctrines into the minds of their hearers. This was n° ee o'l
to be the case in Scotland. The:teaehers of jurisprudePdaties,
medicine, aed the other lay professors, discharged thor,tees 0'
with perfect impartiality, and did not interfere with me' to
religious belief. The Right Hon. Gentleman referreeeitie";
another danger in the establishment of rival Unge ace'
He though the more education there was the better. De ceders
would they give those rival Universities, which the seobich
might establish, the power of granting those degree
they gave to the State Universities ?—( Hear, hear.) °ore
Scotland was not a very large country, and if those tes,'shea,
applied, the number of the pupils would be dirrin:ooo;
and the remuneration of the professors being in id n°
quence diminished, professors of ability ‘o,°
be found to fill the chairs at the Ouse hest
There was nothing in the test to make professocsreelorl
qualified to teach medicine, chemistry, jurisprudence, lifted.° eo
Latin.—(hear, hear.) Would any body be less ens t/
;
teach an abstract science because he had not red
—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman then Lioi:
f
to two professors in Glasgow who signed the test, sot revs
the Established Church of Scotland, One of the ',a!
pallet
quences of the test would be, that it would lead men leaigh;;
and act with reservation, instead of acting in a plain, she sets
forward manner. The evil consequences of "
might not have been felt when all Scoo4.otlae
united in one Church, but now when the Church of ,ire Ol
was divided, not into a variety of creeds, but when in! d woe'
a large party who would not conform to the practiced} _„iiiit;
ship of the Church, and who would not submit to its 7,3r.,1
it was time for the Legislature to interfere.—(Hear' 0,1115 e
The main ground on which the Right Hon. Baronet
op
to accede to the introduction of the Bill was, that it lord
posed to the Act of 1707—the Act of Sezurity.—(Hear;as also
When the Act of Union passed, this separate Act e'llie"*
passed, and it became part and parcel of the Act
The people of Scotland thought it would -be a • sefcel ths
their Church. But they had soon reason to °nestle",
it was not a very strong safeguard against the
—( Cheers)—for in about five years alter the Pe 'At;
of the Act of 1707, the Imperial Parliament 1455'41.1A bfi
which changed the constitution of the Church of Scot" ss
removing the patronage from the hands of the lerP'talten°
restoring it to the patron from whom it was previouairl,l6ol;
away by an Act of the Scotch Parliament passed heer''elf
'lhat was an old instance, and here was a new one.---borell.,t
In the last year they touched the constitution of the, t of t
Scotland. Ware they still prepared to call the
re
year year a declaratory Act ?—(Cheers.) Were they poi 4
do so in the face of the opinions of "'pee ""
tenham, Lord Brougham, and • all the other indee-beely
pronounced judgment in the ease ?—( Hear, a,!? ova of
They touched the constitution of the Church of e,s°titiortef
that enactive Act in a most delicate point—the dislr'" wee
patronage. The Church of Scotland was now thet C ere
the,'
the minority ; and the worst consequence of wile- eter°
now doing would be that they would impress the chars, besrb'e
)
sectarian church on the church of Scotland.—(ll, efty ef
These schools would become onions to the great nor'' eebe° of
people(Hear, hear.) They would found other° 00,
Learning wtaild be injured—(ilear, hear)—becans.o coeecis
ability would be precluded from becoming teachers:o,o,th' he
queries of their peculiar religious opinions, and to. ed.
of the people would not send their childre
reiorthe
taught in those universities where the test "Leatise,ert
A brand was placed upon two-thirds of the people,. r oy
Legislature considered them unable to !lawn", dello
of their own.—( Hear, hear.) They would not °ll sec% to
the Church of Scotland, but they would create _fest
church, which would become the most intolerable "
n!' re,
•
the country.—(Cheers.) hiseo yere
The LORD ADVOCATE felft himself boundk.Y ebel the
tions to state that he was opposed to a motion where acted nlaist•
called upon to repeal certain tests that had been enseain e,nee
wisdom of their ancestors, and which had cootintlfie Wool
ence for a period of about a century and a half. bad re' coo
heard that any one instance of any practical ee.' „ the
from the existence of those tests, with the excePl4",.A,AreThat
alluded to as having occurred in the University tol_ reuserishuot
It had been admitted, that it was for important_ their 07ger
those tests were enacted. It was admitted th', fool °ore
was to protect the Established Church of Scotian,u_e tots
_dor
If tne' claer
that was apprehended toit from Episcopacy. icipate f the
reasonable to protect the Church from the ant euable
of Episcopacy, then he concluded they were real Die
0001 Ras
he
protection of the Church from atty other daniffr:f it 00010,0
there had been a change of circumstances, grid
Stances to"
Out,'" that that change of eiroenw those But
sufficient to require the repeal
heir rePeel'orort
then they might listen to the demand for t
_mince
to lot
it was no light case that was required to be inau the Lot
such a demand ; for let them observe the _fl.
those •ty
attached to those tests at the time they were to d
them recollect that the establishment of
fundamental article of the Act of
protection of the Church. They were to ten'ear ar two_nee to
Union, forthoeveseZt,strio;ti-
why ? Because there had within the last.y ;„ referoco....o
a great change of circumstances in that country.s4,,,ht 1.1
_1: :Iv
the Church. He did not know whether hi ,_" of sire
protecil t had
stances had arisen, that tests and s„ meal u
Learned Friend meant to say, that becaus a ene 'ons
say, that because that change of
become less necessary, or whethercirgivstanceft,..Aess
tecteds . tee 00
' one of those two propositions which theyt was no I+° ,sat
arisen the Church should be no. longer n_c_eant, :.ott:oree
account of that change of circumstances ll "'
or beeaPee'n
necessary, for the danger no longer existed'.o :rhati
change of circumstances the Church no. Inint`'woclutallt'
tection. Now, he did not lee that the