The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-25 00:00:00

„-...........,,_,-.-.-_...........—......c ......e...........--....--.
to their naea-sures in a blindfolded manner. The Bill itself e the law of nations. The French Government passet% a similar
before the House was not consistent with the dispatches of : concurrent Act. But the Brazilian °overlies ent had
Lord Aberdeen, which declared that coercion should be r not taken such a course. It was true they had announced
carried out against the Brazilian traders to the fullest possible their intention of agreeing to the proposition, but n, specific '
extent. There was one amendment introduced into this Bill law had been passed, and the measure, if new carritee, weeee
-which was very important—it was, that the tonnage and ships in reality be no more binding than if the Minister of t
e
Crown
of Brazil which fell into the hands of the cruisers of this court- suggested an Act to the Sovereign which was not awned out
e.me to the
1 ha been the
try should be appropriated to the benefit of those who seized by the force of law. The Executive must alwaysi
them. Why, it would be recollected, that in the vote on the assistance of the Legislature, but, even if sue
Consolidated Fund, there had been 35,0001. voted to reward case in Brazil, he should have denied the
P' ewer the Bra-
the men and officers of these very cruisers. Such a Bill, he zilian Government to enter into the treaty with that of England
Naas sure, would excite the worst feelings in the minds of the to make the sale of negroes piracy.
people of Brazil against this country. Then with respect to The ATTORNEY-GENERAL °.-esid that his Hen. and
the slaves seized by these cruisers, they were quite as badly -Learned Friend was as well aware see he
was,
that Brasil was
treated after they were taken from the slave ships, as they , peculiarly circumstanced as re ;ceded the slave treaties. He
were during the Middle Passage. The Hon. Gentleman here knew that she had be eo me.e. party to the slave treaty of 1817,
read an extract from a letter to Lord Aberdeen, from the West andthough Brazil sathe slave-trade was abolished in her id.,'4nat now the mixed commission was at
Indies, showing the evils to which the negroes were subjected an'end, and that
do-
after being seized in the slave ships. He should like to know minions, it ana admitted that Brazil had passed no law, \
er
ex-
what would England have thought, when it was a slave tradang presaiee an abolition of the slave-trade, but she contended
country; to have been treated in the same manner as they bad that 'ale fact of her declaring the slave-trade to be piracy,
recently treated Brazil. He was sure, from the bench of bisho
IP ahnesly sufficed to show that she held the principle that slavery
downwards, it would have excited a general feeling of indigna-
Was extinct in her dominions. Now the question was, in what
tion. He considered the policy of the Hon. Member for Hull (lae!..• mode this matter should be dealt with. His Honourable and
Hutt ), at present, however well intended, was a very
itollrsla'cie Learned Friend said that the Courts of Admiralty and Vice-
course. Should that Hon. Gentleman introduce a motiyn next Admiralty had no power of dealing with Brazilian slaves as
session for a committee of inquiry, he (Mr. Gibsore ) would pirates, but with all deference to his Hon. and Learned
willingly support him. Before sitting down, how ever, he Friend, he thought he was in this case in error, for
begged the Government to furnish the House with Pelr. Ellice's if the Brazilian Government had, by the convention
dispatches, that they might show the true nate.re of the pro- acknowledged that they recognised the carrying
ceedings in which that Gentleman had been '..ngaged. Brazil on the African slave trade as piracy, then surely they were
said she would not put this duty on British 'manufactures if we justified by the article of that convention in dealing with them
ceased to tax her sugar. He must ruse his assent to the as pirates. Therefore, with regard to the first part of the
Bill, and would not share in the grave 'responsibility of sanction- clause, he ventured to differ from his Hon. and Learned
ing it. It was their own police which forced them to carry Friend, and he was not prepared to abandon, without very
nut the law of 1826 in this Lo-as le spirit. 'I he passions of the serious consideration, the stipulations contained in the latter
Brazilian people would be -roused against this country by this part of the clause. 1
line of policy, and supposing they might make the condition Sir T. WILDE would ask how the Executive Government
of a few slaves a. little better, would that counterbalance the could- proceed against the subjects of foreign countries as
dangers which British subjects resident its the Brazils must criminals under circumstances in which they could not proceed
continually incur ? How log were the great trading interests against their own.—( Hear, hear.) They could indeed pass
of this country to be trifled with, to satisfy small sections of the laws enacting that any aggression by the subjects of a foreign
• . anti-slavery party ? The great majority of the anti-slavery party nation upon the subjects of England, could be punished as
were arerse to any hostile policy on the part of the Govern• piracy, bat they could not so proceed azainet the subjects of a
mein. It was the monopolists of this country who by their third nation.—( Hear, hear.)
influence on the Executive brought about this state of things, , Sir R. PEEL said there were two things to be considered—
and interrupted the amity and good feeling which would be an offence against the Brazilian subject, and an offence against
productive of such beneficial results to Great Britain and Brazilian property. He apprehended that in this case the Act
Brazil.' applied to the property and not to the subject, and, therefore,.
Sir A. PEEL said he would state to the House, as shortly as he thought the position of the Hon. and Learned Member was
he could, what the objects of the Bill were, which had been confirmed. He would take care that before the third reading
sent down from the House of Lords, and which he now sub- of the Bill, the clause should undergo furtherconsideration, and
mated for their consideration. The international engage- 'in the event of its being found that some alteration was ne-
mentsbetweers Brazil and this country would be seen in a re, ceasary, the Committee might rely upon its being made.
solution on the subject of the slave trade, recited in the Con- .Mr. M. GIBSON must take the liberty of asking some
eention of 1826. By the first article of that Convention it• further explanation as to this Bill. The Right Hon. Baronet
was provided that no subject of Brazil should engage in the had stated that this Bill would not interfere with Brazilian sub-
African slave trade on any pretence or pretext whatsoever, and jects. Now, how could the Right Hon. Baronet reconcile this
that if any such subjects were found carrying it on they should with a dispatch which had just been sent out to Brazil by Lord
be treated as pirates. There was, therefore, an international Aberdeen, which stated that all Brazilian subjects found en-
agreement. Subsequently, in the same year, there was a supple- gaged in the slave-trade were to be treated as pirates?
mental treaty by which the right of search was mutually este- Sir ROBERT PEEL replied that.the treaty of 1826 gave
blished. A mixed Commission was agreed upon to determine the power to deal both with the person and property of Bra-
th,. offences. Brazil had the power of terminating the supple- zit= subjects found engaged in -the slave-trade, but within
mental treaty 16 rears from that date, but the original treaty the last thirty years the power had only been applied to sub-
remained in full force and effect. Accordingly, in jects, and they did not intend to change that system by the
1841, Brazil gave notice that she wished to ter- present Bill. •
urinate it, and it was terminated accordingly. Captain PECHELL remarked that the treaty of 1826 only.
The Hon. Gentleman had observed that foreign countries did gave this country power to deal with property and ships'
not seem very confident in the good faith of this country. ee- actually engaged in the slave trade ; but by this Bill Govern-
specting her wish to put down the slave trade. No doubt im- ment proposed to deal with vessels which were only equipped
• putations had been thrown out, but when the sacrifices which for the trade. The treaty, moreover,. only gave them power
eaigland had made in the cause of the slave were remembered,. tq destroy, and, not to sell vessels which might be captured
• he thoright she might set
•at defiance all such unworthy sus- while engaged in the slave-trade.
OCiens.—( Heir, hear.) the.p4hopt in the other House of i Sir R. PEEL said they had, exercised the power of seizing
' Tirlitehent tedebt,, or might note have advocated the con- vessels which were only equipped for the slave-trade for the
• tiriaance of the save trade; but that was not the question. The last thirty years, and he could see no objection to their con-
., aitevion wys--wai thl; ceantry prepared to abandon her former tinning to do so. ,
e l.ne of pelicy—was she prepared; to retrace her stes, and.ren- _After some farther discussion the clause was agreed to, as
' der her fermhil exertions fruitless ? He would not deny, that were also 4 and 5.
the Government had net come to the resolution of presenting - Clauses 6 and 7 were agreed to,•after a short discussion, as
`. 'this Bill to Parliament 'without great deliberation and great was also clause 8.
'• • riegehte--( Hear, ' hear.) Every means had been taken Mr. HU•TT said he did not much approve of the measure, as
''' 'to prevail upon the Brazilian 'Government to act upon it,was one which involved a great deal of expense.
rI "-The terms of the Convention of 1826, but they were fruitless. . The other clauses were then agreed to, and the House
” The Government' hid; 'then, no alternative but to bring for- resumed.
v.. I Ward the present theasurea and act independently on their part,
' "''eh allow the slave trade on the coast of Africa to be carried on,
"' "as formerly,' by "Brsailian subjects. It was the 'opinion -
'of 'Sir William Follett, whose name he could not
mention without exalting a respect for the memory of
' • that a distitigurshed man, that in ' case Brazil refused. to
' ' act' upon the treaty of 18.11,` England was fully jtisiifled
' in exercising the right, of search upon Brazilian 'easels.
"' 'That was i right 'they had exercised up to the present time.
' Thed, withlreayeet to the production of papers which might be
' "'rendered ne'deasarY "for various purposes connected with the
eretelie pre, -d.ers. the hen. Gentleman could not say that he bad
e• Cave refused. to prodifce them, where such a course would pro-
mote, instead Of injure, the public service. It was necessary,
" "for the peometion of the interests -of this country, that this
". ' Measure' Atm!! be passed into a law, but if Brazil would tinter
-1"' into a treaty kith 'them, not' for the suppression of the slave
ill ytilide, but tetii"PleivAingagemeets; for the purpose of giving
-''' effect to the original agreement of 1826, they would not proceed
e"3 with it. "Hut it had'been rendered necessary by the' conduct of
Bretil for a king series of years, during which 'they'
•'' had - implored' 'that country to ' take measures other
' ellen those of a temporary nature. The Honour-
• -able Gentleman said' that the treasure was' imperfect,
• bios'tnse alterations of ' which be did not approve were made i
• when it passed through Committee pro forma. These altera-
ticies - were not, however, of such a nature as to alter
- the objects which the Bill had is view in any maaerial
- -"degree,' and ' hest 'reference to ' the continuance
of the mixed Commission for a 'period of six months.
There was another alteration,' giving a part of the
proceeds of ;a slave vessel and of its cargo to those who had
aided in capturing it.' He' hoeed, then fore, that he had fully
explained away the charge which had been brought against the
Government that the measure was imperfectly constructed, and
-- • had hero' hurriedly introduted. He did not think that any
good object would he attained by producing the correspondence
or the instructions to which the main:: referred.
Mr. HUTT said, if they passed this Bull, as he bad every
- reverts to believe they weuld, iii two years they would Sod
their trade with Brezil utterly destroyed. The trade between
• this country and Portugal was of the greatest importance, and
anytting tending to its injury, as he apprehended this measure
would, could not be too- mil: h deprecated. Then they should re-
coliece that o her countriss were anxious to inter into engage-
menot of a more heneticill nature with Pertugal than we could:
' offer. -n,:. slave trade was' net now card, oon as f irinerly
is -ler th ~ Perttestrese five, sithostell in tel,er uountries—us iise
• ire. ti ie et' the Unites! 1- tetes, for ins, snee—it had :.,e;i!ly
asaieeer..... But if the 'Brszklian fl te dal not efferd the same
fecihries as !. rtnerly far earryine en the slave trade, it was too
- hierative to be entirely got rid' of ;so that they would only
• . . drive it nee ether channels offeing facilities for carryii as it on.
Lord PA 1...1ER STON did not cons ur in the views which
we e eutertalned by sonic of his Him. Friends with respect to
the measure before them. Indeed he could nat 'pursue any
other collie., es he was the first to suggest the adoption of the
curse a hieh the i;ove. cm of were now pursuing. The
gee., teat which the House had to consider was whether the
• trsiay of ISA waseto. -be tendered null and void, or whether
.---shay should adept measures to. enable the Crown to carry it
. . into executem. He was of opinion that if this country
entered into treaties with other countries and did
not enforce them; when any countr . became reluctant to carry
them cut, that they would . bring disgrace upon themselves by-
, their negligence, and want of national honour. The Govern-
in nt of -which he was a Member during the ten years they
_ wt re in office, used every argument in their power to induce
the Gorernment of Brazil to carry out the engagements which
they had bound themselves to, butlike their successors they
e: hat notemeceeded in their object. Every time the spiestion
• of the save tree was discussed, that treaty formed a promi-
neot portion of it. Were they then to be permitted to carry
oli their traffie in slavt-s with perfect impunity, and were they
stet to take these means which the treaty with Brazil placed in
' their power? In that case he was ready to bear his share in
. any eeseonsibility which might. ensue. 11 the Government
had not taken the course with Brazil which they did with re- ,
spent. to the sugar duties—( Hear, hear)-if they had
.. taken the proper course, they should not have found
themselves he the position they now held, and would rot have
oiteasloaed that irritation in Brazil which threatened to put an
end to the treaty of 1817. When they asked Brazil to fulfil
, her es ergements they asked no more than they would perform
~.. ....what they had agreed to do by treaty. He was
Much afrai 1, however, that the measure would not put an end
to the slave: trade, as it would be driven to other portions of
the globe, offering facilities for carrying it on. The slave
_ . . trade of Brazil would be carried on under the flag of France
and of the United States. He took that opportunity of calling
the attention of. the Gevernment to the slave trade carried on
between Muscat and the Isle of Borneo, in the hope of its
. receiving their attention during the recess. He did,
e . therefore,- hope that her Majesty's Government would
' •
.make those repreaentations to the French Government, which
would induce them to recal that ordinance. Slavery did not
exist in the Mauritius, and there was, therefore, an opportu-
nity of cheekitig the importation of negroes, but it did exist in
the Isle of ifeurbon, and he was afraid that a means might be
affordea for promoting the slave trade in the interior of Africa.
He trusted the Government would urge upon the Imaum of
Muscat to take all steps for stopping the trade within his demi-
, nions. The Governor of Cuba had sent back the negroes
. which had been introduced into his island. The negroes in
Cuba became forfeited to the Crown, and the consequence was
their liberty. The Dutch Governor had purchased these
negroes illegally, and he should saythat as the Dutch Govern-
_ . ment had no right to 'retain British subjects in bondage,-
▪ ' he'hoped, therefore, that the Government would interfere to
a set them at liberty. Then, again, no progress whatever had
, . been made in giving liberty to the Emancipadoes, and he
hoped the Government would insist on the liberation of those
men. By nationallaw and by treaty we were entitled to demand
it. Those .who were to be set at liberty were entitled to
the protection of the country, and he was quite sure that if
this point was pressed upon the Spanish Government, it would
; :go further than any other. He trusted that the papers of
next year would be more satisfactory than those of this year.
`°.t' When the Government talked, no men could speak more
" fairly, but when they came to act he was sorry. nothing could
be seen, ' and their acts fell far short of. their words. Ile
' thought that the return which he had moved for last year
' ,' might have been ready by this time.
- Sir R. PEEL said, that its explanation he might assure the
'Noble Lord. 'that' if he would appoint a time, he would request
' . . Mr: Barry, in the Foreign Departmdnt, to show him that it
- • was no indisposition or • negligence, 'but a real difficulty in
'4
''snaking out toe tensest which prevented its being furnished.
. . Mr. M. GIBSON only wished to explain that it was not
"lompetent for the House to make a law which should bind
----Brazilian subjects. ' The circumstance of the executive having
eh" '''' tfachired the slave trade to 1:i piracy, did not make it piracy, and
. , "''therefore they ought to be very careful' how they legislated on
'•1 ht•el grOtind a• •' • • • -
ee House thee went into 'Committee on the Bill, and on
:,
h!l.ii 'firsh clause beiegpropes'ed; ..
• . c*V`t• PECHELL inqtfired whether the Admiralty had re-
t' heiven any account of the gallant conduct of Lieut. Streport, in
.- • the Capture of a slaver,andofthe sufferings Lieut.
'• of the Star. etist several of the crew on a raft ? •
,; • '.',,,•:',ili%flia'.lCei.T--m'kuß.:'R'N replied that as yet they had received
cation;
' Mr. J'IAWES thought thetlor
which should be put in posses-
- ' *inn of the negotiations byruptures in the Brazilian
shi. colonies had been caused, and which' were issued between the
• ''' ' two Governments' in the, final arrangement of the stipulations
• 'hi 41 the treaty. '
'' ' Sir R. PEEL considered that the production of such papers
eh would tend to irritate rather than cement those differences
. ti. hich all must deplore ; at the same time that they wouldno
.4" . tifibed any information respecting the policy of the Govern!
eseet, and therefore he ratist oppose their production..
'"4. . Mr. M. G113430N thought they were legislating in the dark,
-f-:- 'find with blindieheYet; unless. the correspondence which led to
- .-1' +lke' ruptures first, and this Bill eventually, were freely laid be-.
fere the House, '
• Mr. HAWES 'considered that the whole difficulties in re.
.1- sped of tegislating for the Brazil, and preserving concord in
• ---'the- colony, wax the litflacious and inconsistent course pursued
- - '
• ' by Government in making a difference between free and slave-
,. 'oo,Vrt sugar.
**- 'Lord PALMERSTON said lie had always imagined that the
fi;icittrable reception Of the sugar of Brazil was a sine qua non
-in flsenegotiations between this and the Braeilian Government.
-- - The eleuse, as well as the second, were then agreed to.

REMOVAL OF PAUPERS BILL.

The House then went into Committee on the Removal of
Paupers. Bill.
Captain JONES suggested an amendment in the 4th clause;
to which .

Sir J. GRAHAM objected, upon the ground that the
amendment would have the effect of repealing the power of
removing paupers altogether. The clause only gave the power
of landing paupers at the port nearest their native place, and
then of being sent on to that place, 'instead of being landed at
Cork, for instance, which might he the place farthe,t from their
native places.
After a few words from. Sir R. FERGUSON, the clause
was agreed to.
Clause 5 was next proposed, and, after a few words from Mr.
G. Palmer, Sir J. Graham, and Mr.. Darby, agreed to.
The remaining clauses were dispoied of and the House re-
sumed, and the Bill was ordered to be reported to-morrow at
'twelve o'clock. '
TAXING MASTERS' COURT OF CHANCERY

t•%":-Or the' third eTatisibeing put from' the chair, 7 -
Mir 8 WIRE said that the Government had no
power IMPEPTC to make aria cendOt SA ad of pirady, unless by