The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-17 00:00:00

satisfaction which had already been expressed ley those who
were best able to judge of its importance, he meant the in-
struction of the people, proved that the best results might be
auticipated from the improved feelings which the sister coun-
try would bear towards England. The measure was the more
satisfactory, that while the • granted this boon to the Roman
Catholics, they did not in any degree injure the Protestant Es••
tablishrnent.—( Hear, hear.) The proposed measui e had
already effected much good with the Catholics of Ireland, for
they spoke in high terms of the liberality of this country, which
onferred on them this boon, for an object the dearest to their
hearts, he meant the education of their eriests, a sum which
that House did not hesitaee frequently to bestow on objects for
their own gratification merely. They had the stroneest assu-
rances that the to: ebodings of certain Honourable
14J/sabers, with reward to the evils resulting from
ts
grant, would be doomel to disappointment.—( Hear. )
e believed that this grant would produce the effects which
nts supporters anticipated. He believed so, because though he
ffered with his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen upon
• 'Points of faith, he was convinced tl.ey were moved by feelings
which animated every Christian man, and were grateful
for the kindness of England. They were grateful, above
:1", for those boons which were given in a disin-
serested spirit, because they were calculated to contribute
t'hverially to the comforts and education of those parties in
he they took the deepest interest. Thinking these were
'themeffects likely to follow the measure, he was not to be tie.
;eased from prosecuting it by any casual expression which
eirgllt• have fallen in the course of the debate from Hon. Alem-
si however distinguished they might be for learning and
ability, and still less by any speech which had been wade in
neat House at any antecedent period. He entertained the.
hint House
respect for the Hon. Member for Dungarvon. Hi,
letnle;rit and ability for discussing subjects of this nature were
sLefee'ulY great, but nevertheless he was constrained to
ire from one part of a speech made by that
cniourable Gentleman upon this Bill. But perhaps he
TISSht not to fix upon a man whose poetic imagery
'as at once an excuse for the indiscretion he fell into, when he
stated that the Bill would not give satisfaction unless it led to
some ulterior measure ; nor did he concur with Lord Mont-
v.e_eaegdlee,awohnouailnlya,n accidental moment said the grant ought to be
nataar. and ought to he under the supervision of Par-
es `", That expression was used sorre fourteen or fifteen
ands ago. It was an expression, accidentally used,
;I:" not meant for the guidance ot Parliament at
the time even when it was delivered. Surely,
Ili it ought not to controul Parliament ha dis-
cuasi
as 4, fourteen years afterwards, a measure of such im•
Vtance as the one they were discussing. In the course of the
• denote attempts had been made to enter upon poin•s extremely
lu'liortant in th mselvea but which had little to do with the
auect of discussion • cen scussion, and therefore they did not necessarily
it ter into the consideration of th.s question. He did not think
:ecessary now to discus.; whether it bc seoper that the State
Ten uld extend favour to all religions. He did not deem it
eeessary to ascertain whether they were bound now to take into
eexolilsideration the general endowment of every sect that might
s.esst in the country, because that was a question which had no
e,r_eorence to the one immediately under discussion. But at all
e e ts, if that question was connected with the grant to May-
eooth dee•a the time to have considered it was when the grant was
ereslued upon in the sear 1795. All they had to decide now
whether, the principle having been adopted, they should
for e such an augmentation to the grant as to make it effective
iisist,he objects which induced Parliament originally to estab-
he It. Allusion had freely been made to the petitions which
11_1 beets presented on this subject. He admitted that they
differ
been extremely numerous,- but the generality of them
afts!eed very much from the speeches which had been. made
come the grant. The petitioners pursued a very different
r4_ Ursa to the line of argument used by Hon. Gentlemen who
s:sted the grant. The petitions uniformly proceeded upon
lie Principle that the grant was established for maintaining a
ue,Tuan Catholic establishment, and they called upon the House
Now'
to vote a reasonable grant, but to do away with it altogether.
thew, with the exception of two Hon. Gentlemen, he mea.nt
sitiOra Members for the University of Oxford and Dublin,
ai "era Member who had spoke in the course of the debate
Beautiestegt'le against the augmentation uf it, but they did not object
maller amount-. But the petitioners looked upon the
theth preposterous ; and let Hon. Gentlemen, therefore, not
that if they succeeded in rejecting the Bill, it would stop
reessue, they
would have to proceed a step further. They
tlu_st announce to the Roman Catholic body of Ireland that
me „time had now come when, instead of their rea.
r7..nainmoayield,
focronsidering their wants and demands, Parliament
must withdraw from them the grant which they had
a period of fifty years. It had been said that Par-
Cashea-a" was new for the first time going to establish a Roman
110 ""c endowment ; but for his part las differed from those
of tat: Members who held this opinion. What were the words
apb•le preamble to the Act which first made this grant?
force'. they were these :—" Whereas, by the law now in
Cethsiniethis kingdom,. it is not lawful to endow any Roman
puet)
..soerninary or college." Then came the enactment
eadew"lll h said, " It shall be henceforth lawful to establish,
and maintain any such college, and the same words
ere
tees used in a subsequent clause, which he did not think it was
lieri;ssarY to read. Yes, it was the distinct intention of Par-
es.,.._ent to give the grant for that particular purpose, and the
44,7 grant had been repeated for the same purpose every year
rsoie down to the present period. But supposing there was
4!ltention to endow the institution at that time, it was in•
"..aed to do so at some future period, and the Bill then before
ar'' House provided for the endowment of the institution. His
r-`tuattrable Friend in the next place objected to the
ant because he said the Bill made it a permanent
pWeed of an annual provision, and thus they laid down the
rinciple that the Roman Catholic religion should never cease
n Ireland. Now he very much doubted whether by any le-
gislative enactment they could cause either the cessation or the
I,ldaancement of the Roman Catholic religion in Ireland; and
least of all did he think that its permanence
could be prevented
"Y providing for the wants of the clergy in an indecent and
Unbecoming manner. A well educated person, in his
rion, was more likely to become a convert to. Protestantism
au one who had received indifferent instruction. He could
the, therefore, agree with the principle which wished to keep
she Roman Catholics in ignorance to induce them to adopt
himself urer faith--if he might be allowed the term—which he
professed. No, he did not think that course would
I.slreetheir end. They would have a far better chance of
tlesachtui the hearts of :he Roman Catholic people, and rendering
tsethP_Urer doctrines of the Protestant Church more acceptable
ago m, by making every concession, and giving their clergy
that7redueation. It had been stated in the course of the debate
it "soh they gave a better education to the Roman Catholics,
d,„
etild endanger the Protestant religion, but he confessed he
se•un ot entertain any such fears, nor did he think either rea-
NobjeraePerience justified the opinion. He would ask his
Itefer_rriend, who alluded to this subject, how it was that the
prevailed itself was first effected ? Was it when ignorance
'tepee '.eu, or when literature, science, and art began to ad-
not u ? Europe? His Noble Friend knew full well that it was
erulsZttile science and literature had begun to illuminate the
and , and the monks began extensively to cultivate the arts
sentedssences, that the leaders of the Reformation pre-
bleu, themselves to the world. They were the
vdle hlvad° •had obtained a previous liierary character, and
It less b distinguished :themselves in classical attainments.
broke i ut Until they acquired these attainments that the light
werld 111)°11 them, and then they illumined the whole
keep ti/I''elth the
Roman
blessings of Protestantism. 11e said then to
Progress tlornan Catholics in ignorance was only to stop the
their of truth in Ireland, while by increasing
14adevya ;eoal4 o,f, religious instruction and erlucation,
hene the throw . a blessing upon the land, and
not ethane
pries nation ef its inhabttants.—h ( H
inaccept etlPriests had repeatedly declared that tey would
tend tbereor endowment from the State, and his Noble
People e argued, that if they were to break faith wit
utild se who contributions they were supported, they
'vas Pactmpelled to accept of a State allowance. But it
hat clerg;ro'rt of the present measure to endow the Catholic
ef uthnel.ake them independent of the voluntary con!ri-
%a: the their
flocks. It was altogether erroneous to say
Roman Catholic
of the grant would increase the number of
Brent;e would t•eatholic priests in Ireland. The. effect of the
altd
adestined merely to improve the education of those. who
seilt decent
ma.be pricsts—to.supply the students with books
maintenance which they did not possess at pre-
bett' and thereby to render them better men, and, he hoped,
w Chri •
could ,_
_stians, He did not believe that many in the House
Lama send to concur in the proposition that the grant
04tettiljtrernsaitsegether done away with. The grant was confirmed
had et the Union. For 14 years it was continued with-
7,P9aitteri, an.d.every. opposition which had since been raised ee'l defeat
Y. lkletz en by a large majerity. On no occasion had
ust Cheer' of the House of Commons been found to vote
;heat °lle:pant. If they could not do away with the grant,
, re than ion could there be to a measure which proposed no
oltti —art th mak
been eit effective for its purpose? Some objection
Hue
ths wade to the time when the increase was proposed.
the ught that there could be no time more appropriate than
• tonesent,
dseditie. when the energy of the Government had con-
!•tie Le , improved the finances of the country, and left nnai glsiature the means of granting without danger a boon
lithe!! tempciesPeZPle o. f Ireland so much desired.. There were
which he would have desired to address the
be slec2.,3if the debate had not been already so much prolonged.
orry that it fell to his lot to address the House when
GtO eTmY Members were absent. He was sorry to be obliged
teletie tlernau,
leet, the
or" "e Sat dspeech of any Member ; but he was compelled,
hown,. to allude to the speech of a Right Hon.
hY it ou .0 said that although the measure was a good
the gilt not to have been brought forward
ts`u heels present Government. But the late Ministers
se years in power and they had never ventured to
..tSfue grant to the Catholic Church in Ireland. They
leltit_t_therefore to stigmatise those who under greater
tae man had the courage to propose it. The Right Hon.
"ue he e" opposite had accused the Right Hon. Baronet at
i the Government• •
s*Sie au individual, if well founded, was not a valid charge
04 “st au
eatir
„lr. Macaul e Government. The Right Hon, Gentleman
el) _ eY) said that his Right Hon. Friend (Sir R.
cod rnade nse of passions with which he did not sympa-
iinsTitinr.ol3°.ba,iroroopPreiudices which he held in contempt. Let the
her
rf this allegation with the speech made by the
fosr. Edinburgh in 1840, when. he expressed
Robert Peel's conduct in abstaining
thosindul,gence in the passions and prejudices of the majority et
itee; U 0 su
elly:odisbap.
poP.Ported htm. He thought there could be
e , 0 jection to the principle ef the present measure, and
tint Pad that the expectations which had been raised would
inted, because the measure was proposed by
Re who were liable to the charge of inconsistency.—( Hear. )
ee_sleuceiautecldud!d by imploring the House to pass the Bill, as one
to promote good order and religion in the sister
euntry
sir •
eeuide W.L!LLIAM CLAY said that he did not think that there
thTonpersonalreasons t,„""z" another Memberor
opposing
othsie House who could have
Which hen, himself. There existed in the measure now. before
a the
widely'la rg.es constituency
feelingtuen ey
Of disc had the honour to represenr
easote trirobat i„ of this medasure, and
.many o his friends to
and e was most deeplytin indebted participated in that feeling,
hisd suend
.pporting that measure he
es r, I,ass conscious that
h•taing the loss of theira in
ship. He could not but think,
uddree PeefectlY agreed with many Honourable Gentlemen who
measure had been greatly miss
%retied the House, thwatt
egos, ended and misre resentsted, and he believed that no in-
s.riseitteerable portion of pthe excitement out of doors may have
Neje °tit of that misapprehension. In the harangues at
teeue Meetings on the petitions presented to the House the
CattleAriee Wet. talked of either as an endowment to the Roman
Inent. , Church or as a necessary precursor to such an endow-
that 't He denied the accuracy of that description. He denied
was in an other or greater degree an endowment to the
CatholieYurch than the existing grant to Maynooth.
r a beoiizzaeteiloans afgrant for educational purposes ; it was
anaerrelyuldee
grant made by a Protestant Irish
tieuellent, and afterwo that
tliwy atnhouniwteedroPmarelirarmlyenaht,ouantdtocoion:
;ease thatfigftrYanyte,arandatnaodrsubstituteya good system of education
a bad
at either one or theth Only
cichied th"e* That wa
difference, and he distinctly
Rome other could ever be described as
dtielecrilideeltirnent to the an Catholic Church. If it were
suedetlse asel its. an ecclesiastical endowment, he did not see wh
ye after year _would not apply to those grants which
suede e oujection
y
arnedrieviiido hadic ariez dividedo fheedtuweeaetniotnhaelthey
National,uros s iano
dt s Britisheo un taroyd,
It could not be denied that many
I,:forlis.alsietdUcateedietblyes.th grants might become non-con-
te d
forwas tree that insMa noeth only the students who
iere edge clergymen in theY Roman Catholic Church
e_reurest ,ducat betweenhe did net see any difference, under the
;IL? oserenionns, . a earn of money given for the education
ees.o to each. ging to several denominations, and several sums
z.agnt to be
sepsesad been found,
"41•0 a schoolstheby experience,
that there
'Ned for the edu of those who
441117r4en of Chord IThich enjoinod