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London, England, 1828-03-25 00:00:00

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-right mcasure of punishment and of justice. He was not
;prepared to adopt any of those jealous principles with re-
' -spect ttathe agricultural and manufacturing interests which
• the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department had
attempted to establish on a former occasion. The present
• case was not one which called for extreme punishment, and
, therefore he would support the amendment.
Mr. BATLEY would not vote for the absolute disfran-
ebisernent of the borough.
Mr. PEEL was not prepared to advise the House to
revoke the solemn decision to which they had come by a
majority. of 114 toSS. He did not think such a course
would add to the character of the House.—lf any person
"we to state that be could bring forward new evidence to
"rt"an that previously given, that might present new
"tl4 aiderations to his (11r. Peel's) mind, but he had
neacq nothing of the kind stated. At the present moment
he:troated the House would deal with the case before them
Wltk the most rigid justice. Should the House agree to
!bld original proposal for transferring the franchise to the
sarge town, or great commercial place, the Voters not dis-
franchised, it was obvious, would feel themselves very diffe•
rently circumstanced, and placed in a very different relation
from that in which they formerly stood. In fact they would
only bear the numerical laroportion of 150 to 142,000,
such being the disproportion between the number of the
disfranchised voters and the number of new electors, or
newly enfranchised persons, with whom they were intended
to be amalgamated by the Bill. He certainly was still
unaltered in his opinion that substantial justice would not
be done by extending, in this case, the franchise to the
hundred. In the former case of a transfer so often alluded
to in the course of the debate, the House of Commons
voted that the forfeited franchise of the borough of Gram-
' round should be transferred to' Leeds ; their Lordships,
however, subsequently determined, in the other House, that
the franchise should be transferred to the county of York.
'llse franchise was undoubtedly an enjoyment of a private
Tight. In the case of the borough of Grampound both
branches of the Legislature, however, felt that they could
ant do justice to the interests of the public, unless the elec-
tors were disfranchised. Whatever might be his opinion
on other delinquent boroughs, he begged to state that he
never doubted that the House had a clear right to deal with
the electors of Penryn from the notoriety of its corruption.
The only-loubt he had entertained was as to what was to
be done with the forfeited franchise in this case, or to
Whom it was to be transferred. As to the propriety of
transferring the franchise of Penryn to the hundred—and
here he wished to be understood as saying nothing which
could be inferred to allude to the case of the borough of
East Retford—he had formed his opinion and made his
Mind up from the thousand circumstances—some even
minute ones—so often found in life to be the substantive
grounds on which persons were often compelled to make
up their minds on matters of even considerable importance.
In the review of those circumstances he could not exclude
- froM his mind the consideration that the borough of Pen-
ryn was a Cornish borough, and that Cornwall was repre-
sented by 42 representatives in that Home : and here he
would observe, in answer to an appeal which had been
made to the House by the Hon. President of the Royal
Society in favour of the representation of Cornwall,—let
those persons whose interests were likely to be affeeteti
provide in future that their interests shosald be represented
9 Parliament by proper and honourable persons.--(llear.)
For himself, he should vote for the transfer of the fran-
chise of Penryn to a large commercial community, because
He considered it a fair line of conduct to pursue, "as the
House had now two delinquent boroughs to deal with, and
with propriety-, therefore, could here adopt the principle
?fifraelternation in this particular instance. He should there-
support the proposition of the Noble Lord upon these
fruunds, and vote for the transfer of the forfeited out-
rage in this instance to a large commercial community.—
(Ilear.

Lord F. L. GOWER said, that the eases of these 61111-
qUen t boroughs resembled very strikingly the cases of tw o per-
-5.?0s found guilty of offences which rendered them liable to
the severest penalty the law could inflict—the loss of life,
attended by
circumstances of personal disgrace and degra-
dation. If, pursuant to that sentence, they were so doomed
to die) it was of very little consequence to themselves how
that sentence was executed, provided it was equally as
7PtedY, and unmarked by cruelty. But it was of great
'mPortance to the public how this sentence of the law was
''Xk'ebted ' • for it might be, and often was, of consequence
that such a mode should be adopted as might render the
.„punishment an example and a warning to others hereafter.
If, then, the House should determine in its wisdom that
one of these offending boroughs should he delivered over to
be dissected after execution, and order the other to be hung.
in chains, no party, he thought, in the House or out of it,
could feel that the Nouse of Commons had in this case
exercised towards the parties an act of injustice.—(Hear.)
The gallery was cleared and the House divided—
For the M0ti0n...,, • 213
For the Atnenduieut

Majority. 179
The House then went into a Committee on the Bill.
The preamble of the bill was greed to, which transfers
the right to return burgesses to Parliament from the bo-
"net of Penryn to the town of Manchester, c-. 1 account
of the great and increasing wealth, trade, and population
of that town. •
()11 the clause relative to the qualification of candidates,
and their liability to pay into the hands of the sheriff
3°W. as his portion towards defraying the expenses of the
' election, •
Lord J. RUSSELL said, he had proposed the candi-
dates returned should receive the money back again : the
arrangement of the deposit was only precautionary.
Mr. PEEL proposed, as the fairer mode, that all the
candidates should; whether successful or not, pay their
quota of the expenses afterwards, giving adequate security
to the returning officer for the payment of such sums of
money when called on.

After a fear words from Mr. C. W. WYNN, the clause
was, as we understood, agreed to.
Mr. HUSKISSON objected to the clause which limits
the Mectien to two days, as unfair towards Manchester.
If the bill was a piece of Manchester stuff, all he could
say of it was, that it afforded a most unfortunate specimen
of legislation. Under these circumstances he thought the
beat way of dealing with it would be to direct the chair-
man to report progress and ask leave to sit again, by which
means they would have the opportunity of reconsidering
the Bill.

Lord J. RUSSELL could not adopt the suggestion of
the Right Hon. Gentleman, as it would be productive of
delay.

Mr. SUGDEN thought it would be advantageous to
postpone that and the remaining clauses until the other
two Bille were brought before the House.
Dr, PHILLIMORE admitted that the suggestion would
have been a good one if they could be sure that the other
Bills would pass : but as they could not be sure of that, it
would be wrong to make the present Bill depend on a re-
mote contingency.
Mr. G. LAMB thought the machinery• of the Bill was
altogether too cumbersome.
After a few observations from Lor.l NUGENT, Sir
M. W. Iltinzy, Mr. WIIITMORE, and Mr. CARTER,
Lord J. RUSSELL consented to withdraw the clause,
as the sense of the Committee appeared to be decidedly
'against it.

''The Bill, with the axnendments, was then ordered to be
reported to the House, Mr. Gonnox left the Chair, and
brOught up the report, which was ordered to be received
on Thursday next.
CORPORATION AND TEST ACTS.
Lore J. RUSSELL moved that the Order of the Dar
be now.read for the House's resolving itself into a Com-
mittee of the whole House on the Test and Corporation
-Acts Repeal Bill.—lt was read accordingly Lord J. RUSSELL—. In rising to move that the
House do now go into a Committee on importantthiso avery few
Bill,
'I feel it necessery to say a few words, and o
words, to the House. When it was lastuendtel.reoloiascussion,
"Pon_"Pon_the proposition of a Right lion. Go
oppo-
site, seconded by the Right Hon. Secretary forthee
taken
HHoweDepartment, for inserting a declaration in it, to be
believed it
by all Dissenters on their entry into office, i
agreed to the I
thought
?rinciple on which they rested it, not because
it either necessary or important, but because t -
to be likely to render the Bill more satisfactory to 1" I?ar_
agreed
ties, and to Prevent that collision of hostile feelings
which,
on points of religion, is of all things most to be avoided.
With respect to the proposeddeclaration and to the clauses '
to accompanying it, it was impossible for me then to agree
them, having heard them on that occasion fur the
first time, and being
would impressed with the feeliug that it
be imprudent for me, on a question where the jnte-
rests of ao many were at stake, to allow myself to be con-
cluded at once by any form of wors. At the same time it appeared to me that the proposition of the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite did not cum prebend any thing in its
terms unsuited to the objecta which
points to which I found 'myself bound to look were, that
I bad in view. The
the Dissenters should not be restrained from the expression
of their religious opinions,--that they should not be mo-
lested for retaining thern,--and that they should not be
prevented from teaching and inculcating them to others.
In these respects, after deeply
by the considering the declaration
proposed Right Hon. Secretary, I feel bound to say,
that I do not find that it imposes any restraints on the re-
ligious liberty of individuals..--(Hear, hear.) It merely
restrains them from exercising any influence which they
jay obtain by virtue Of any affice to which they be ap_ ,

pointed to weaken the established church, or to subvert
its legal rights and privileges.—(Hear.) I therefore am
of opinion, after giving the subject every consideration in
my power, that it would be extremely wrong in me to
propound or maintain any objection to the declaration pro-
posed. On the contrary, I feel that it would be extremely
wrong in me not to admit it into the Bill as a very essen-
tial means of pacifying the country on this most important
and interesting subject.—(Hear.) In making this opi-
nion known, I cannot but chink it due to the Right Hon.
Secretary to declare, that as far as I have observed his
conduct on this Bill, he has been most anxious to bring
the question to such a point as may prevent the conscien-
tious scruples of any Dissenter from being injured, and as
may satisfy the Church that it need apprehend no injury
from the admission of Dissenters into civil offices. View-
ing the declaration in this light, I shall offer no objection
to the clauses of the Right Hon. Secretary; and I trust
that when they are inserted into the Bill in their amended
form they will render it acceptable, not only to this, but
also to the other House of Parliament. I now mow; that
this Bill be recommitted.

The SPEAKER then left the Chair, and the House re-
solved itself into the proposed Committee.
The clauses were then brought up by Lord J. RUSSELL :
The first was agreed to without a division. On the second
being put from the chair,
Mr. PEEL said—The only objection which I have
heard urged against the course which I recommended the
House on a former evening to follow, arises out of this
clause ; and I am informed that it appears to some persons
—but how I know not—that it gives to the King a dis-
pensing power—l mean a power to dispense with this de-
claration. My own opinion is that it gives no such power :
at any rate, I know that I did not intend that it should.
The question, as far as it refers to this point, is not with-
out its difficulties. At present, by the law as it now stands,
any one who enters into the King's service, or receives the
King's wages, or acts as his menial servant, is compelled to
take the sacramental test. He is relieved, however, from
that compulsion by the annual passing of the Indemnity
Act. If that Act were not to be passed, he would
be under an obligation to take the sacramental test, how-
ever menial -the office might be in which he had
the hbriour to serve his Majesty. If I am entitled
by the Test and Corporation Acts to call upon every
person who enters into his Majesty's service to take the Sa-
cramental Test, I am entitled by the present act to make
every person who would now be compelled to take that
test make the proposed declaration. Now I need not say
that in many cases the performance of such a ceremony
would not only be superfluous, but would also be absurd.
For instance, what could be more useless and absurd than
to make a man, who was going to enter upon office on a
foreign station, make a declaration that he would not, by
virtue of that office, attempt to subvert the privileges of the
Church of England ? It would be difficult to specify in
words all the cases in which it would be imperative that
the party should make the declaration, and equally difficult
to specify the cases where an exception to that rule
ought to he allowed. The object of this clause
' was to enable his Majesty at his discretion to spe-
cify those offices in which it would be necessary
to exact the proposed declaration. The object of it
was, not to dispense with the declaration entirely, but to
allow his Majesty to name what officers should and what
officers should not be called upon to make it. This is all
that I have to say on this subject at present. I will teiie,
however, on this opportunity to repeat that I am satisfied
with the security which this declaration offers. lam not
prepared to make any alteration in it to please the wishes
of any party. All that has passed since I had the honour
of proposing this clause, confirms me in the sanguine
hope that the present Session will not not close without
seeing some arangement adopted on this subject, and with-
out our having every question satisfactorily arranged with
respect to Dissenters from the Church of England.
Lord NUGENT said, that the proposed declaration was
one of the mildest and least offensive declarations that could
have been devised ; and that the Right Hon. Secretary ler
the Home Department merited the thanks of the House and
of the country, for the Manner in which he had acceded to
the proposition of his Noble Friend. There was one
point, however, which he wished to suggest to the con-
sideration of the Right lion. Secretary. He thought that
the-office of Privy Councillor was one which subjected
the holder of it to thking sacramental test.
Mr. PEEL—He is covered by the annual Bill of '
Indemnity.
Lord NUGEN T.—Exactly so : a Privy Councillor would
be compelled, unless he were covered by the act of indem-
nity. If that were the case, then he would he called on to
make the proposed declaration. Assuming then that a
Privy Councillor was both to take the sacramental test under
the old Bill, and therefore liable to make the, declaration
under the present Bill, be (Lord Nugent) submitted that
there might be cases, and those not extreme cases, in which
a man, not nicely scrupulous, but only properly conscien-
tious, might find the declaration at variance with the oath
which he had taken as a Privy Councillor. He did not
know whether the Right Hon. Gentlemen would make any
exception in this clause on behalf of Privy Councillors ;
but it did appear to him that, as the clause now stood, it
might excite some uneasiness in the minds of persons of
tender consciences.

The clause was then agreed to, the House resumed, the
report was received, and ordered to be taken into conside-
ration on Thursday next, and to be printed in the interim.
PASSENGERS' REGULATION BILL.

Mr. Secretary lIUSKISSON moved the further con-
sideration of the Report of the Passengers' Regulation Bill.

Mr. HUME wished to defer the drocussio; on account
of the lateness of the hour. The Ron. Member objected
to that part of the Bill which required vessels carrying pas-
sengers to have two decks.

Mr. Secretary HUSKISSON could not consent to delay
the Bill, and moved it be re-committed.
The House accordingly went into Committee.
Mr. HIISKISSON stated, that nothing was so neces-
sary on board the passage vessels as a deck or platform, for
the passengers to starlet upon, whilst tbey had a deck over
their heads. This platform was what the Bill required
under the name of a deck.

Sir C. COLE said, he had authority to state, that a
vessel bound to North America had nothing but salt for
the passengers to rest on, and when they landed they were
all dreadfully ill with dysentery.
Several verbal amendments were then agreed to.
The Report was brought up and ordered to be taken
into consideration this day.

The Pauper Lunatics Bill went through a Committee of
the whole House.

Several verbal amendments were agreed to. The Report
was ordered to be brought up, and ordered to be read on
Thursday next.

The Other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at One o'Clock.

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
NOTICES OF MOTIONS FOR THIS DAY,

1. Mr. Wilmot Horton—That the Reports from the Select
Committees on Emigration of 1826 and 1827 be re-

ferred to the Select Committee on Public Income and

Expenditure.
2. Mr. Fergusson—Petition from the British, Native, and
other Inhabitants of Calcutta, respecting the Law of
Real Property within that Settlement, and particu-
larly- respecting the liability of such property as as-
sets (in the bands of Executors and Administrators)
to the payment of the debts of the deceased—and Bill

to carry the same into effect.
3. Sir John Newport—Consideration of State of Admiralty

Court, Ireland.
4. Mr. Alder►aan Thompson—Petition from the Insurance
Companies of London and Westminster, for a redue-

tiou of Duty on Fire Insurances.
5. Mr. Lamb--To make provision for the lighting, cleans-
ing, and watching, of Cities, Towns Corporate, and
Market Towns, iu Ircland,.in certain cases.
6. Mr. Lamb—Bill for the regulation of the Linen and
Hempen Manufactories of Ireland.
7. Mr. Lamb.--Bill for consolidating and amending the
Laws 'in Ireland relative to Larceny, and other of-
fences connected therewith.
ORDERS OF THE DAT POE THIS DAY.
1. Justiciary Courts (Scotland) Bill—Second reading.
2. Bills of Exchange (Ireland) Bill—Committee.
3. William Leadbeater, to he brought to the Bar, and
discharged.
Ways and Means—Report.
5. Life Annuities Repeal Bill—Third reading.
6. Stamp Duties Bill—Report.
7. rassengers' Regulation Bill—Report.
S. Lunatics Regulation Bill—Further consideration Of
Report.
recoadnidngr.eading.
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rsßeeaiclido—inngds:

NOTICE GIVEN YESTERDAY.
Thursday, March 27.
Mr. Alderman Waithman—Account of land in Upper Ca-
nada granted to the Canada Company, and of pay-
ment for the same ; also, number of persons sent eut
by the Company, and land appropriated to them.
Tuesday, April 1.
1. Mr. Robert Gordon—lnquiry into the treatment and
condition of the black and coloured population in the
West India Colonies.