The Sun.
London, England, 1819-12-01 00:00:00

WEDN ESDAY. DECE.MI3Eit 1„1819.

PARLI A MEN T.

HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY. N0v.30.

CASH PAYMENTS.

The Eirl of LAUPERDALIS, seeing a Noble Eirl
(Liverpool) in his place, wished to be informed
it there was to be any delay in returning to Cash
Payments, he anderstoo.: that such n report
was in citenlation.
The Earl ut LIVF,RraoL said, he could assure
the Noble Lord, in answer to his question, that
there w.s no intention whatever on the part of his
Majesty's Govetinnent, to interfere with the nr.
ratigernent made by Patliarnent for the resumption
of Cash Payments, at the periods specified.
STATE OF THE NATION.

The Matquess of LANspo tiaing Pursuant
ter the motion co' which he. ltd given notice, to
propose H Select cirmiintiee to rote Jot,
deriltion flit Sttue of the said he had two
ohjects principally in view. The first teas to to-
(piire int(i the nature of those alarming discon-
tents which prevailed in the manufacturing dis-
tricts ; and the next, to take into consideration

he law, as it was now 2citninistered in the flit

ferent p.irt3 of the country. He could assure their
Lordships that he was not insensible to the diffi-
culty, of the duty vvhich devolved upon him ; and
if frequently happened ivith those who sf4l on hip
side of the House, that this duty taught them to
regard measures as dangerous, which Noble Lords
on the other side Were wont to contemplate with
indifference. But at this conjuncture, it was im-
possiHe, in bis opinion, fur both sides not to be-

lievc the country as in a state of imminent peril-
-(flear, hear, hear n—The ground of danger
was now clear ; and when he considered what
passed within the last month, the addition of ten
thousand men to the standing army, a force which
a hundred years ago, was sufficient of itself for
the defence of the whole empire—when he show-
ed Noble Lords that they were- called upon to
consult the peace and security of the nation,
while nothing was resorted to but measures of
coercion, or of regulations to restrict the
liberties of the nation—when he reflected on
the great anxiety %shich pervaded the people
in ge'ieral, and which induced them to surrender
their judgment into the hands of the Govetnment
—when be turned his mind to these. facts, he felt
that it would be waste of their Lordships' time

were he 10 urge at any length the extent of the
danger to which the country was exposed. He
now,:theietore, called upon their Lordships to
consider whether they believed this danger of
nature so very comprehensible, and so much on
the stittace of things, as to be accurately under-
stood nithow any previons inquiry whatever
If so, Noble Lords had nothing to do hut puss
the mill 'unposed by Government, and return to
their houses perfectly satisfied with ~.vhat they hart
dour.

There was, however, considerable 'Hai

colty in ne..kilig out ho nrw case of such danger as
to ►:arrant so son►tnary a mode of procrettiog ;

and there was another diffictd-y, lest the faistl
oisrake might be made of looking only to one
side, while the interests.of..l-he great body of the
people were disregarded. 14 was not only neces-
sary to inquire into those event., which had lately
talhcn place, but likewise into the causes of them ;
and there were- no mem who bad witnessed their
alartning progress, but must be satisfied that they
*suned ol chatacter which was ID itself most. fear-
ful to contemplate. There was no man, he would
repeat it,•wlto had paid any attentina to 160%e
events bot 1111151 be courinced that violence must
be pot down by force, sedition by law. Yet,
while he admitted this, in common with evety
man who had
.14 due regard for the safety of the
Constivutioni lie slionld say, at the Bailie tithe,
that there would be a fatal error, it .the eau-es
in which the evil originated, were not renioyed
It '-vat tIIC duty of Parliament to provide the Go-
eernment ‘siih sufficient force kir its prottction ;
but Parliament ought not t,, grant it without in-
quiry. nor was it etiotigh, lor the put poses of
coercion, that seditious publications were/ circu-
lated—the causes should be ascertained why they
were lead.—(Hear, hear, hear ought to
he know!), why itinerant ,demagogues found
it their interest to roam from. place to place,
mi.,leyding and corrupting the minds of the
people. The Noble Matquis went on to Corn-
ment- no the proceedings at Manchester, with
the view to prove that all the persons who coot-
posed the meeting were not disaffected, and gaol-
ed a passage hum the letter of Mr. Hay, the
Magistrate, in Proof of the fact. The passage
said, !hat in the opinioo of the writer, " only
half .of the persons tilSetilbled.were Reformers."
In suggesting remedies for the exist:log distress,
the Noble Marqois expressed great diffidence, and
menth,tud a Pa diamenta:y grant to the manu-

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fact-wets, the reduction of taxes 111)011 SOilte nrii.
genrral consumption, tea particularly,
and ahe encouragement ot commercial enterprise,
us the means most likely to answer the purpose.
11e dm) cited precedents to show, that before
restrictive tneastorts were proposed, inquiry had
taken place, and instanced the case of the rust at
-Oxford, in 1717, whien had been produced by
Jacobites; and also its Ed4thitigh, when Captain
Potteoas was killed. be latter case, lie
was particularly worthy ot artetition, as the Doke
ot Newcastle was opposed to the opinion of some
of the most respectable Um) in Edinlittrgh, who
thought it would be disrespectful to rite Lord
Justice Clerk and the Lord Provost,, to examine

!hem at titcir Lordship' Bar, with regard to the
trantiactions. which had occurred. lu conclusion,
he moved, That a Select Committee be appointed
to inquire into the stave ihe (tattoo, and parti-
cularly into t1:4; came, of the .Ix-0t..7.,g

and also into the isdministratioa aud execution of
the laws.
The Marquis of Wet-tens-1' said, that after the
able and eloquent speech of the Noble Marquis
who bad just sat down, he felt considerable dif-
fidence in offering any observations upon the mo-
tion before their Lordships. There was none
whose opinions and sentiments upon questions
of public interest *ere more entitled to respect
from the National Councils, and the more his
hopes and expectations had been raised with re-
gal d to hint the more regret did he feel, that his
arguments had taken another sod a different
course. The \oble Marquis held it to be the
chief duty of every government, in limes of con-
vulsive disorder, and alarming events. to inquire
into the causes which produced them; but much
as he respected the judgment of the Noble
Mitt Os, be must differ with him upon this
subject ; and tell him that the great and para.
!Donut duty to be performed, was to guard.
:vgainst the .danger of the hour .before
inquiry was made" as. to the came that pros;'
(reedit.--(Hear, hear, hear!)--1t was not denied
by the Noble Marquis himself, that considerable
danger existed, anti he admitted the fact, that
lence was to he put down by force—sedition by
law. Thus far be was perfectly correct, and if
the Noble Marquis said that inquiry was necessary
as to tire nature of the danger. and that this be-
came an imperative dirty, he (the Marquis Welles.
ley) would most readily accede to the proposi-
tion. Rut the great and important question this
night, was not only with regard to violence to be
put down, as it now existed, but with regard to
violence to be suppressed, which was intended,
though not yet offered.—(Hear, bear, hear !)-7-
This was a dirty which superseded every other,
because it was upon the prompt and active dis-
charge of it, that, in times like the present, the
safety of all our social institutions depended.—
Were there no other considerations to claim the
attention of our Legislature, than the necessity of
putting down violence, be should he at issue upon
that question with the Noble Marquis. Whence, he
won'd ask, had arisen the necessity of their Lord-
ships' meeting at this time irt their own defence, and

that of the Constitution ? Not surely for the pur•
pose of pwting down violence which had taken
place, and which might he punished without their
immediate interference ; no, it was in order to
meet that danger with which they were now me•
paced by a dark and determined project to sub-
vert that fabric which their ancestors had reared,
and to-destrorthat right of public security, in the
exercise of which-they were at this moment as-
sembled. It was stared by the Noble Marquis.
that distress was the principal cause of the disaf-
feetion which prevailed, and that demagogues took
advantage of it, to corrupt and mislead the pop.
lace, without iiIC3C lying till-CC:IC(1 by ally ir6iitur
or fixed purpose. In this latter part of the pro-
posi.ion, however, he was a:2ain at issue with the
Noble Margnis. Hc should contenl that there
was a deep and• well•coneerted plan for the de-
struction of the Constitutioo ; and though it
would now be wise to empire into the nature of
!he danger, it •was certainly no time to in-
vestigate the scheme by which it wss itt-
rended to bring about UnivCrs;ll Suff,tv'e, An-
mini Parliaments, Annual Elections, arid Ballots
at Elections ; for oothiog she; of this, it
appeared!, would satisfy the. Radical Reformer,.
It was far, -beyond his e‘titeness to develop the
character and exteot of this scheme, in i:s parti-
cular details yet he -would assert, from he tol•
lest conviction. that those associated in it sought
to catty it into execution, by any means however
atrocion.... The right of property was publicly
questived, and the demolition of it must he the
ii.vitahle consequence of the project
,which hail
been set on foot, The persons impiicated in this
conspiracy .soiid, it retotm was granted by peace-
able means, well and good ; but it not, physical
toter must be resorted to ; at all events,. Radical
Reform must be effected; for with them the fa-
vourite signal was " Free Representation or
Death." No man could regret more than he did
he dreadful calamities which had taken place at
Manchester, yet he &tiered very matelially front
the view which the Noble Margins had taken of

the causes which produced them. In the opinion
of the Noble Marquis. no disturbance would have
taker) place, had it not been for the interference
of the military, and the Reformers would have
separated quietly, while the halcyon days of
peace would
.not have beeiroverclonded for a
moment, had the meeting not been dispersed
by force. This fond anticipation, however, was
not to be realized, nor could it be iedelged by any
one who consi,ered the silent progress of that
system upon which these determined conspiratore
acted.—".lpSß r.ileutie terret."—To constitute
the guilt of such men, it was not necessary that
some overt act should be xraited for; nor ought
they to he exempt trom punishment, because in
forwarding their atrocious designs, their conduct
was not distingoished by acts of open violence.
Supposing they ILiti announced their intention of
holding a meeting, for the purpose of voting the
Monarchy 33 a nsele?s sinecure, without at the
*same time resorting to violente, would their
Lordships, he would ask,- remain satisfied that
the proceeding was legal, and did not admit
of any iliterfertnee on their part sln:uld
say, that malice prepense, and the design of
guilt, greatly enhanced the degree of
critni-
nality; anti he twist observe, without the
slightest disrespect to the Noble Marquis, thpt
tinder the 'peculiar circumstances of the case, his
motion, to say the least of .it, was premature.
lie had heard persons allege, among ot.!;er nrgtn.
meats equally destitute of foundation, that the
scheme of the Rcipumers was too wild and vi-
sionary to- sv7traut any ap!-prehension of Pi ever
being cp:rjet: into•effeet. But -those ^t PA/