The Sun.
London, England, 1821-02-15 00:00:00

OLD STORES.

Mr. GRENFELL felt much gratificatipn in stat-
ing that he hoped much public goad would re-
sult from the attention of the House being -so
often called by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Creevey)
to the very-slovenly manner in which they had
been accustomed of late to vote away larabe sinus
of the public money.—(Hear.)—He hadhimself
been looking over the Navy and Ordnance esti-
mates of the last year, and he found in them one
head upon which he should make a few observa-
tions. The head of which he spoke was that of
" Old Stores ;" and it would be felt by every
Gentleman who heard him, that it was as much
the duty of the House to watch over the way in
which the public property was disposed of, as
it was their duty to watch the way in which
the public money was voted fur its purchase.
He found, then, the item of 263,000/. receiv-
ed by sale of old stores, without any explana-
tion whatever being subjoined in the estimates of
last year, or, in short, any thing that could lead
the House to form an opinion, even as to the way
in which these stores had been disposed of.—
(Hear.)—ln the Ordnance Estimates of the same
year, a sum of 285,000/. was taken credit for,
" by Old Stores," without the least notice of
the natlde in which they, also, had been disposed
of. Now his motive .for mentioning the fact was
this—that in some instances he had reason to be-

liege these old stores had been disposed of by
private contract. Surely, the system either of
purchasing new stores, or disposing of old ones,
by private contract, was liable to much abuse.
He must express a hope that the next estimates
to be laid before the House would give some ex-
planation upon the subji.sct. He wished to know
whether the Hon..l3aronet opposite would have
any objection to furnish the required information
as regarded the Navy Estimates ?

Sir GEORGE WARBENDER could have BO objec-
tion. The system pursued was, that the best
price, should be obtained for these stores which

ley could procure by means of public auction.

Mr. GRENFELL'S objection did not apply to
stores sold by public auction, but by private con-
tract. If none of these naval stores were dis-
posed of in the latter made,-he was satisfied.. But
he wished to ask an Ikon. Gentleman opposite
(Mr. Ward), whether Ordnance Stores, the
public property, had not been so disposed of by
private-contract:

_
IVARD,-in. reply, said a few words, which
were quite inaudible in the gallery. ,

In answer to a question from Mr. RICARDO,
whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer was
prepared now to state (as he on a former occasion
said he would not object to explain) what was
the nature of a transaction on the part of • the
Bank of England relative to the purchase of a
very large quantity of silver.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
that he meant to avoid giving any,explanation of
the matter until the whole of that transaction,
and every proceeding relatives to it, were com-
pleted. He-could not, therefore, explain Lim-
self further till those arrangements were finally

settled, whieh he thought, wOtili be in• the. mouth
of March or A pill. •
•
Mi. W.kanz wished to knew when --th
street, upon-which, suthlarre sums- ot:the
money. had been 'expended, would -be completed,
and by how muc h the total expenses, ncurred
the Conunis-sione.rs under the NeW Street A et,'in•
the -execution of .the duties confided -to them,
would exceed the original estimate.
Mr.'HuSKlssoN could :not undertake to say
when the purlioSes of that Act wood he coin;
pleted. It'directed that all the purchases to, be
made under it shPuld be.made within seven years.
They had all been contracted .for; but in Many
instances the parties had not yet made good. their
titles to, the' entire satisfaction of the Commis-
sioners. . He did believe that in the.course of.
two years from ,this time the. street would he
completed and opened, paw much the expenses
would surptiss the estimate he'did not knOw.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-
CHEQUES:, the Committees of :Supply, and of
Ways and'iVleaßS, were postponed to Friday next.
MALT
_

_......
The.C4A-xcso-sLon of the -ExcuLou-Ert--moved
the second reading or the Malt, &c.. Duties Bill.
Mr. CREEVEY opposed the second reading of
this Bill: They -had now been -for three weeks
sitting, almost constantly, in a Coinmittee of Sup-
ply, and yet they had no estithateS.--7(Hear.)--:s-
He had been told that the Secretary of the Treas.
sury, in communications addressed to those who
were in political connexion with the LordS Of
the Treasury, -had informed them that it would
he a very short session ; that all the would'
be over by Easter. in other words, this was to say
that the Queen was_sacrifieed; that Ministers-were
safe; and, as-for money, that nobody. troubled-
himself about its disposal.--(Hear!)--Still the
House had no Estimates. But they were to come.•
They were at length to come ; and they would
present themselves, all at once, in the shape of
Image books, which, if Hon. Gentlemen did their
duty as Members of Parliament, it would take-
them three weeks to examine but which, as
usual, they- would be required to go through at
one sittirsg, or in two or three nights at 'the fur-,
thest.—(Hear !)—Now he was determined that he
never would leave things in this -state of own
will. Those, estimates they would never have,
unless•they stopped the supplies which time Con-
stitution had put into their'hands ; and upon this
principle it was that he opposed, and meant to
oppose, the second reading of this !)
He-spoke,-however, with some hesitation on -the
subject; as he saw an Hon. Baronet on the second
bench opposite; he meant one Of those-lay' Lords,
as some persons called him, but as he (Mr. Cree-
vey) styled him,
,one of 'those sham,• mock Lords
of the-Admiralty. He understood that that Hon.
Baronet had said to -that oolitical connexion and
acqua;ntsisce of 'which he 'formed so distin!guished
an ornaments—(Hear, and laughter)---that he
meant, on this occasion, to inflict a strong and
signal punishment upon him (Mr. Creevey)
for doing as he did _mean to do—persever-
ing in his opposition till the Ifouse got these
reluctant estimates.—(A laugh and Cheering.)--s-
The Chancellor of the Exchequer they kneW
had thrown out that the house was to find that
there would be effected 'a saving of 1,000,000/.
this year.—(Hear Ds—The -estimates, however.
were not forthcoming Co- prove that position ; and
he (Mr. Creevey) was resolute to oppose, as he
had done before', every thing which bore the
slightest' resemblance to a vote of supply;; fer,
persisting in this course of conduct, he: humbly
hoped that the Hon. Bart., who had so obligingly
invited his lion. Friends to the benefit—(Laugh-
ter,).--swould,'notwithstanding, its the tenderness
of-his eoMpassion, spare him. Perhaps the Hon.
Gentleman -would 'remember that there was a
time. when lie hiMself was a tip top patriot—
rather in the radical line-, to be sure—but this re-
collection and former associations might plead
with him for his (Mr. Creevey's) obstinacy.—
(A Laugh.),---On the principles he had already
explained, he opposed the second reading.—
(Cheers.) . . ,
• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
that the Hon. Gentleman would find his intended
opposition to be an occupation that it was little
worth his while- to pursue. They had already
considered the number of seamen, for instance, to
be voted for the service of the year. Would it
not be sostisthirig inconsistent if the House were
after Wards to withhold the means of paving their
wages ? The. [louse should recollect that the pre-
sent were not new taxes ; they were part of those
which were usually granted. As to the other
estimates spoken of; he could assure Hon. Gentle-
men that the utmost haste was now making to have
them ready, and he hoped they would be in a.
state to be laid before time House in the course of
next week ; and no measure would be introduced
respecting them uotil they were a sufficient time
in the hands of members.

Sir It WILSON concurred in the propriety of
oppasing. the Bill at the present moment. lie
thought it was their duty as Members to: oppose
any grants of Supply while his Majesty's Minis-
ters continued, as he conceived they did, to act
in opposition to the declared Wishof the p€ople.
It would not be regular to say that the, majority
of that House had, by last night's vote, declared
war upon the people: but he . would maintain
that, as a majority on the other side persisted in
not listening to the prayers of the penple, it was'
but a fair'exercise of their privileges for Members
on'higthe Oppositiou) side to retaliate by refus-
ing to-grant any Supplies.

•
Sir rrHOMAS LETHBRIDGE (we believe) said,.
that he had as much of 'that. constitutional jea-
lousy with which the grant of Supplies ought to
he exercised, as could he found on the•other side
of the House ; but still he could not concur in
the objection which had been made to the present.
Bill. lie thought it .nccesgary to support ,his
Majesty's -Ministers on.,this occasion,, and- he
could not but regard the opposition.now given as
vexatious:.--(ifear !)--At the same time, as an
independent Member of • Parliament, he. wished
that every possible saving should be • made in the'
present distressed state of the country, and he
would concur in any measure.•proposed on the
other side . which should . have that effect.=
(Hear !)
Colonel DAVIES was glad to hear such senti-

merits as-tlios'e wltich tell from tie Ilan. (len tle-
.,
man who `spoke last. - lie could assure hint that
-the- objection to the present motion mack at his
(the opposition) sitle, arose solely:Troth thAr wish.
to corro:ct 'what they cor;sideTt,,,.l :a grleVance.
They 14';ilit;d, -to hive it diStinctly 'uliderstood
'What retrenchniews' it was the intention of Mi-
nisters to make. Isi their pi-,,:.:ent coLirse they
Only exercised the undlobte.l privislege of the
Utilise
.to iefu-se alt.:supplies, where a grievance.
complained of 'w
-as. not remt,lied.:--(lear.)--
But for such refusals of sz.ii.-,pli-,:!s by the /louse,
it. was 'notorious.- to all that they siniuid not now
-fie :existing as a House of. Commons, or have i:f-
fectually guarded .against the oilce enormous in-
fluence, of the Crown. .11e did not say that that
influence. was as .great now as.in form :4 times ;
but when he saw Isis Majesty's Ministers wholly,
regardless of the prayers of the people, he
tln it.the duty of. Members who had the in-'
teresis of their Country at heart to 'exercise. their
constitutional 'priv;lege iu opposing any
.money_

%rants.
Mr. IfvNl-E was surpriSed_ hear the term
" factions" applied to Gentlemen at his side of
the House. fl considered that the term would
be. more applicable to the other side, and that the
majority of last night was. factious in the,highest
degree.----(Order, order, chair.)
The SPCAKEtt said that he would first remind
the Ihun. Member that the word " factious" had
not been used by any Meinber. If such word
had been applied, to any portion of the, House, he
would have called to order, considering it disor-
derly ; but certainly-to apply the term " factious"
to-arnajority• of. that. House was still more dis-
orderly.—(Tear.)
Mr. liuME said lie was sorry for having used
the word, which he had mistaketi.,for the word
vexatious used by. the Han. Mernb._ir. He could
assure the. House. that .it was.not hiS intention 'to
have mentioned' any other word than that used by
the Bon. Member. But •he begged to. say'thaf
he:did consider the majority of last night as mast
vexatious, he'nz, as he cons'dered it, ca.!culated
only to produCe_ vexation an] disappointment in
the country. He prophesied that the vexation
would- not 'end here, nor end at all, unless mea-
sures of a conciliatory nature were adopted.
That decision, he had no -hesitation in saying,
was iri opposition to. the great majority of the
people' of. England.---(hear, bear, from the rni;.
nisterial benches.)--416 repeated it, it was in bp-
position to the declared opinions of 9-10ths of the
people, and he challenged any Ifoo. Gent. on
the other side to produce one petition from any
part of the. country in support of such a measure.
Under these circumstances he considered it his
duty to oppose the granting of any supplies.
Mr. INlANiriEr.i.) deprecated the use of the term
vexatious, as applied to last night's decision: He
would say, for his own part, that he had voted in
that majOrity from 'a con scientieuS feeling that, in
so doing, lie was only discharging his duty. He
differed .widely from 'the lion. Gentleman who
spoke laSt, and who 'stated that the vote was
in 'opposition to the sentiments of the people,—
In the place' which he represented (Leicester)
he could say that there was a -part of the
inhabitants not inferior in . numbers, and • cer-
tainly superior in reSpectahility, 'to' those
is ho held the contrary opinion, who fully
concurred with the majority of last night, and
aareed with die priaciples on. tv ICch that 'decision
was given. For ,his own 'part he was unwilling
to wound the feelings of the unfortunate Lads.
whose conduct he considered had brought her
into the situation in which she stood, and,-there-
fore, he had avoided taking any part in the dis-
cnssion; but_ he thought it too much, after_ all
that had passed, for the Hon. Gentleman to- say
that the majority was in opposition to the send,
ments o; the people. lie considered the fact to
be quite otherwise.
Sir J. NC.wrotur could not concur in objecting'
to the second reading, for he thought some-sup-
plies must be granted ; but he thought that mi-
nisters should use every exertion to have the ac-
counts of the estimates at an earlier period, in
order to satisfy the minds of the people as soon
PF:possible, as to what efforts had been made for

their relief. Ile would not now oppose the ;rant;
but certainly, if ever the :estimates should be so
delayed ag4in, he would object. to voting one
until they were produced.
MAa-rix. concurred in opposing the mo-
tion, on the ground taken by the Member for
Appleby, but there was -also another ground—
the non-production of the Public Accounts.
Strangers were now ordered to withdraw, and
the House divided— •
For. the world reading ,, 7l ..
Apiast it

Nhjenity fnr the second reading —4.19
The Bill was accordingly read second time,
and committed for to-morrow; as was the Trans-

fer of Giants Bill.
TiIB'QUEEN'S ANNUITY BTLL.
On'motion of the CHANCELLOR of the :Excut-
QUERi this Bill was read R. third.,titne•and' passed.
CH:\ScERV ANO ROLLS COURT.

Ina Committee upon the Master of the Rolls
(Ireland) Acts, a conversation. took place be-
tween Mr..(-1 rant,' Sir J. Newport, Mr. Hurne,
Mr. D. Browne, and a Member whose name we
could not learn, upon the gross abuses discover-
ed by the Cor?miissioners for inquiring into the

'state of„the Trigh.COurts of Justices particularly
with regat'd'to the exaction .of fees after which
the following Resolutions
,were agreed to:-
4,3001• p r aupraue to he paid out of the Consolidated Fund
to the Mlister of tke Roll•-1,8001. to each of the Masters in
the Court of (liancery, opou their retirement from oilier
ih•r in ve,rs service, or in conmewlence of illness.

Mr. lIUM.e:_• suggested that. provision :should be
made to, guard .against any such .grant. after a

short peried, perhapi a year's service, by previous
inquiry- as to the health'-and qualifications of any
person to be appointed .n Master in Chancery, as
w:ts the case in .England,; and in .this suggestion
arrothee Member concurred, whose :tame we could
not learn.' -"

Mr. C.; RANT said that the suggestion;shOulti be
attended to.
. Ivele voted to the ieconwant7General of the Court
Chunepry atad:lxisArreral ,Clea

10,0000. Compensation to the Officers of thc ,Coort of Chan-
cery,- for t;le;oss which they suffer in constAin,CllC4l of the new
arranzefoeotc.

.The House resumed; and fife Report was or-
dered• to be brought up-to-morrow
Mr. GouLltu RN gave notice. of a motion for

Tuesday; iitlA.respecifr.. as we And eh
African Cirps; Weelnc..sday reskOcting
• .
tire African' Company.
Mr. GRA S
,64. ye .110 t ice Of p.Cittiltl,.,Nr
morrow, wh:ch was inaudible in the
Lt.ave wa; given to bzing the Aiknual
dernnity
,Bil:.—Adjourned at about half k4tcr..,
eight o'clotk.

MINORITY

ON Mit. loth'''. .S Parries MOTION FOR ItEsTonuto- 11Eft
MAJESTY'S 1141:12 THE• Z.1TT..71111

. . .
Abercromby- „Hi:l.J. .Folkestone, Vise.- . Nugent„Lard-..
Alien, J. Ill; Frankland, R.•.. O'Callaghan- '.7.
•
Althorp, Visct. • Falyand, Robt. - Ord,. Viira.-
Anson,-Sir G. - ' Fox; -0, Lane : Onslow, A. •
Aubrey, Sir. John. Gordon, Robt., Ossuls ton,. Lord
.Astell, 4rni. - Glenorchy, Vis:. • Palmer, Co!.
Ashurst, Wm. - Graham, Sandford - Paliner,,C. F.. •
Beaumont, T. W. Grant, J. P. • • Pares,- The& Barham J. F.-jun. Greaten, Pascoe Pierca, Henry
Baring, 'Alex. Guise, Sir WM. Pelham, Hon. C.A.,
Baring, -Henry Ciaskell, Bea. , Phillips, °coke .
-Barnard, Viscount Grant, G. M.. , Phillips. G.A.'
Barrett, S. M. Haldimand W. Power,Rithard
Becher, W. W. - If a-Milton, tor `i A. Powiett; -1-10 t.-W.
Bennet,. Hon-.H,G. ,-- Hamilton, SirH.D.-. , Price, Robt,...
Benett, John • ilarbord, Hon. E. Prittie,..llon. -n. A.
Benyon,Ben. HeathcOte, Sir.o-. • PrySe,'Pryse • '
Pernal Ralph Heathoote, (}.-J. , Pyin; Fialteig
Birch, Joseph. Heron Sir Robf. Rice, T. S. • . .
Brougham,ifenry Hill Lord A. Rsmsden, J. C.
Browne 'Aim. Hohlious- J. C. Ri.;•ardo,Drvid
-, .
Bright; Browne,
Hornby, Edinund Robarts, Abr.':
Bury, Viscount.
Hughes,‘ll.-Ip.7L. W..VV:
Ritoc4
jbiair2scs2.,24(l..„,;ir.
Cyng, George
f;,:a.,
BoUghey, Sir J. F. Hume, Joseph. P.0w14, Bi.r. Nr:
Blake, Sir F. ' • Hurst, Robt. -. Burr-bold, Charles., '
Baillie,.J.„ : Hutchinson, Hn. C. Ressei.l,..tiord Vv'rii.
BOughton,W.E-.8. Hyde, John • Russell, 11,07d..i,:i1n
Renwick, Lord W. James., W. . , RUSsell, R.,ii:
Chaloner, Robert Jervoiae, G. P. - Rli.ltford Wm,-
Cakraft; John Kennedy, T. F. Imsbottorn, Joint.
Catiraft, J. IT. Lenuard, T. B. Scott; James •
Calvert, Charles ' Lamb, Hon. W. Smith, -Sath...
Campbell,-Hon. J. ' LeMon, -Sir W. Smith. Gee.
C..rew, R. S. • Lloyd, Sir. E. Smith; .Abel.
C-Jrter, John Lloyd, J.• M. Smitli, Hon. Robt.
Cavendish,LOrd G. ' LusliingtOn, Stepp. Scarlett, .2rzmes- •
CaVendish; Henry Lester, 13.,L. Sokulamore, Rt.
Cavendish, C. Leaks, Wm. Stanlcy Lo.d
Caulfield, Hon..ff. Lockhart, J. J. Stuart, -Dad J. •
Clifford, A. W.- Langton, J. H. Sykes latni.l
Clifford, Vise. Mahon, Hon. S. rlitcheld, Ma-q. of
Coicannon, Lucius Majoribanks, S. Talbot, it, W.
('respignv, Sir W. • Marryat, Jos. • Tavistock; Marg.
Davis, I'. H. • Moberly John Tay,ior,-M.,A.-.
..Denison, Wrn..J. . Moberly, W. L. Tierney, Re, Pin..L},
Denman; Thomas Macdonald, J. 'Wane, ..T.' A.
Duncannon, Visct. Mackintosh, -Sir J. «' ebb-e. - -
Pundas, Hon. T.- Madocks, W. A. Western, C. C:
D.undas, C. •• Martin.; John • Wharton. Joan
I)oveton, G. Maxwell, John Irliitlii•ea'd;Sam•C.
Ebrington, is.e. Milbank, Mark Whitbread. W. ri.
Ellica,-Edw: . i%lildmay, P. St. J. Wilkins, Walter
EVans William Milton, Visct. Williams, Wm.
Ellis,Hon. G. A. Atonck, J. B. Wood; Ald. •
Ellison, C. - - Moore, Abraham Wyvilli 15(1...•
Fitzgerai.d,Loth.W.. Moore, Peter Whitmore, W, W.
Fitigerall4Rt.flon. Newport, Rt. Hon. ll'all; C. -B.
M. Sir J. , - Wibetforce, Wm,
Fitzroy, Lord C. - Newman, W. R. Wetherell, C
TELLEIts-John,Smith and C. Tennyson.
PAIRED OFF.
Anstin, Hon. G. Gurney,. H. •
Belgrava, V ise. , Graham; R. G.
Baltonr' John Alostyn, Sir Thos.
Coffin, Sir I. Noel, Sir G. •
'Crompton, Semi. Ponsonby, Ht. F. C. .
-
. . , .
The following Gentlemen were shut:out, the Dirilion ittiving .
taken place unexpectedly :,—Th,os. Creevev, air R: Fergusinn,
J. G. Larnbton, Earl- of Sefton, Sir. John Sebri,ght; and.t.i,i'r.
R. Wilson:

Striith,
Smith, IVrt.
NVinniagtcm. Sir E.

MINORITY
AGAIXST VOTIXO ANY•MONEY 17NTIL CIRIEvANcxx

.._,_.
nr.massEp.—YEß. 14: . .
Barrett,. S.:M. • Hume, Joseph Palmer, C. F.
Bennet, IL G. Hutchinson, II n... C. Parnell, . Sir,Fl-.
Bernal, R. • Kennefly, T. F. Pryse, Prvse
Davies; -T. „1-1:. ' Lambton, -J. G. Riearh, D. '
Denman, Thus, Lloyd,. Sir E. Sefton,:-Lord
Fcrgusson,, Sir R. 'Martin J. W-cltern, C. C.
Folkestone, Lord Monck: J. B. IVyvill„ M.
Hobhouse, J. C.

IL Wilson; and Thos. Crpevey.

THE LOTTERY.

Messrs. 3. and J. SirEwitioir, the Contractors
for the Lottery, have the pleasing .satisfaetW of:
congratulating the Public on their' success in the
drawing- of the Lottery, which commenced yes.
terday, when they obtained all the Three 20.0.01.•
Capitals.—One 20001. was .divided into Sixt'eeri.
Sixteenths ; one 20001. into One Quarter, TWO
Eighths, and- Eight SiXteenths ; and the other:
20001. into One Half, and Eight Sixteenths.,—
The Wheel is immensely rich,' as it still contains
Six 21,0001. Prizes-, all of which may be drawn
next Drawing, St: David's Day, Ist of ~Nt
Month, and at least'Tlnee must then be drawn.
The Ticket, No. • 2122; Class A, drawn. cs-
terday a Prize of Two 'Thousand Pounds, equ,
sots, was sold in Sixteen .Sixteenth Shares, at
Bisn's Offices, No. 4, •Corohill, and 9, eharin3-
CrOss. The Wheel is Very rich, as it contains
Six Prizes of 21,000, COnsols, and Money, all.
of which .may, anti Three of them must, be .
drawn uext Day of Drawing, St. David's D.kiy,
Ist of March.

Yesterday the Protestaxit Dissenting
of the three denominations, assembled at Dr.
WILLIAms's Library, in Red Cross-streetwith
view of considering the p"rojected Bill' of Mr.
BitououAN on the subject of. Education. Several
Ministers had expressed their sentiments, arid;
among the rest Dr. LINDSAY. A friendly con-
versation ha-rirg been finished, the Secretary, the'
Rev. Dr. i%IOROAN, was proceeding to read to
the Meeting a series of Resolations, w lion the at-
tention of the company was arrested by an ap-
pearance of =severe indisposition in I I 'CO
SAY ; he fell insensibly into the arms of those
around 'him. Medical aid vas ins tan tIY , called.
icr , but it"was too, late; the spirit had fled to
Gon who gave it. The whole company was
too much atrectest by this awful „strcqie to pr.)-
ceed with' business: The Wev. Dr. WAX:GIL,
attended by a large company of Ministers, of-
fered an appropriate 'Kayer. The Ministers' de-
parted, deeply impressed' iVith• the powerfal ad-
monition on the uncertainty of life, and the ne-
cessity of being always ready for the strJke of
death.

,Sists4lli/es•a Dfly..:l4qtch for 71;;:c"ve surcessii7.7q-
D4i%—Mr. Young, who started upon this kier 7.
culean task.on., 'Monday, aryi.v.ediat Hantingdon.
.-.
at eight O'cloa'.in ,tale esening, perfornliag_
60. miles in
.14 ,hours,, 11:e
.staAt(q.l,Again .at three
o'clOyk. on Tuesday rnorsling, and our informara
left. hito fresh and well four miles frozo Grantharo,
Lincolnshire, .at..four the afternoon.
His route .will be in.the line of th (11zogow
as far as. Ferry bridge, through Olierton,
sop, Doncaster, &c. This tnatk:h is focc2oo guineast:,