The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-03 00:00:00

Catholic in Ireland considered himself insulted by the course
which that Honourable and Learned Gentleman had pursued
with reference to these trials. With regard to the
particular question before the House, he thought it
would be better to leave out 'every word which alluded to a
repeal of the union. An allusion to it was not called for—it
was totally unnecessary, and could en!y have the effect of ha-
rassing the jury in Ireland. There were men in Ireland who
would take the reference in the speech in a wrong sense, look-
ng upon it not as an expression of the House, but as that of
her Majesty herself. He thought it most unfortunate and un-
fair for the Government, under the present circumstances of
the trials, to have made any allusion at all to Ireland in the
speech, especially with the professions of the Right Hon. Bart.
that his only desire was to held the scales of justice even-
handed. He should certainly vote for the amendment.
Mr. HUME said the chief question for the House to con-
sider was whether the words of the speech would have the
effect of giving any bias to the proceedings which were now
going on in the Courts of Ireland. Two or three gentlemen
from Ireland declared such bias would be produced by the
words, whilst the Right Hen. Bart. and others on the
Ministerial side denied this. If the words would
have such effect, it was for the Right Honourable
Baronet to say whether he would not leave them out—
(A laugh).—in order to prevent any injury that might arise
from their use. He was sorry Ito see that so winch personal
feeling had been mixed up with the discussion, and thought
that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Shaw) was hardly justi-
fied in making the attack which he had done on his Hon. and
Learned Friend beneath him (Mr. Roebuck), who had only
done his duty in bringing forward the matter, as he had done
so to deter others from doing that which certainly appeared
to be a direct interference with the due course of justice. Every
one had been speaking of the Attorney-General and his
amiable disposition and excellent character, but few said
anything of the facts of the case, or whether any injury would
accrue to the interests of justice, and the fair-play due to the
traversers, which he (Mr. Hume) was afraid would be the
case. In this state of things, and fearing that, if the words
were allowed to remain, they would have this effect, he felt
himself bound to record his vote in favour of the amendment.
Dr. BOWRING said he came with distress of mind to
something like a conviction that, if the union was to be sepa-
rated, it was to be by such executive measures as had been
brought lately to bear upon Ireland. He would impress nylon
the House to consider whether the union was represented by
what was now going on in Ireland. Did they think, that in a
country where seven-eighths of the people professed
a certain religion—that on a trial of vast importance to strike
every man of that religion off the jury was the way to main-
tain peace, or consolidate union ? If that was to be the law, no
wonder the union was beginning to be intolerable. He quite
agreed with the remarks that had fallen from his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Brotherton) on the subject of duelling. But when they
saw it countenanced in the most high and exalted places, in the
very seat and sanctuary of justice—(Hear, hear)—how could
they hope to see it properly rebuked, or its abominable practice
be put down? Referring again to the union, he recollected
Mr. Ricardo many years ago stating that if that question was not
allowed to be quietly mooted, and freely discussed, it would
force itself into a discussion with a violence that all would
regret. For his own part, he (Dr. Bowring) could not see
the crime that any person committed in discussing it. Seeing
that the address declared the integrity of the union—that the
question was foreclosed by it—that it bound Members to
opinions which hereafter they might see reasons to change—he
could not, conscientiously, vote for this particular portion of it,
arid must, therefore, give his support to the amendment of his
Hon. Friend.
The House then divided, when there were—
For the address
For the amendment
Majority ... —lO7

On the re-admission of strangers to the gallery we found,
Mr. F. FFRENCH complaining of the manner in which the
Commission of Inquiry respecting land-tenure had been con-
stitnted. It was an additional insult to Ireland, that in the
appointment of that Commission Irishmen had been excluded.

Sir ROBERT PEEL assured the House, and the Hon.
Gentleman that in the constitution of the Commission no in-
sult was intended to Ireland. The Noble Lord who was ap-
pointed to preside over the Commission had been selected be-
cause he was not only a large proprietor of land in Ireland,
but he was intimately acquainted with the laws relating to the
tenure of land in England. He had been a Master in Chancery,
and also had filled the office of Clerk to the House of Lords,
in which situation he had great opportunities of becoming ac-
quainted with the laws and usages relating to the tenure of land
in England. The four gentlemen associated with him
were also Irish proprietors, and they were gentlemen so well
known as to render it unnecessary for him (Sir It. Peel) to say
one word in refutation of the assertion that their appointment
was an insult to Ireland.—(Cheers. )
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said that he had attended two days
before the Commission, and he was quite satisfied that they
had entered upon their inquiry with a sincere intention of
doing justice. It was his duty to rise for the purpose of
thanking the Right Hon. Baronet for the appointment of the
Commission. . .

Sir R. PEEL requested the House to suspend its judgment
on the question of the Commission. He desired no higher re-
futation of the charge that the appointments were an insult to
Ireland than that which had been given by the Hon. Gentle-
man who had just sat down.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. F. FFRENCH denied that he had made any attack on
the Earl of Devon.

Sir R. PEEL had not accused the Hon. Gentlemen of an
attack on the Earl of Devon, but of an attack upon himself
(Sir R. Peel) and the Government, which the Hon. Member
acMised of inflicting an additional insult upon Ireland.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that, for the convenience of the
House, he had postponed to this day his motion of an amend-
ment upon the address, which had for its object the extension
of the franchise in Irish boroughs as well as in the counties.
He had intended to move an amendment to the effect that the
last paragraph but one should be altered with a view to the
extension of the franchise in Ireland, in boroughs, as well as in
counties. In the paragraph upon which he propesed
the amendment it was admitted by the Government
that the effect of the Registration Act was to re-
strict the franchise. The same effect had been acknowledged
in the boroughs. Mr. Smith O'Brien had shown in 1841 that
from the year 1827, down to that year, that is to say, in four
years, the constituency of Ireland had been reduced from
109,000 to 80,000. He could not well understand what the
object was of giving, at this particular period, an extension to
the county constituency, whilst the constituency of the
boroughs wrs left untouched. He would, therefore, persevere
in his motion.

Sir R. PEEL protested against any discussion of the repre-
sentation of Ireland, upon the consideration of the paragraph
in the Queen's speech, to which the Hon. Gentleman's
amendment applied. The effect of the Registration Bill had
been to limit the constituency of the counties, and it was the
intention of the Government to submit to Parliament a mea-
sure for remedying that inconvenience. It was not, however,
to be supposed that they excluded frum their consideration any
other amelioration of the present law of franchise.
Mr. BARRON thought it was unnecessary to press the
motion to a division, after hearing the Right Hon. Baronet at
the head of her Majesty's Government that it was not his in-
tention to limit the proposed amelioration to the county voters
alone.
After a few words from Mr. F. FFRENCH,

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that he did not think it was
now necessary to press his amendment. After what he had heard
from the Right Hon. Baronet, he thought it would be most
advisable to withdraw that amendment.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir R. PEEL said that if the report upon the address were
now carried, he should move that the House meet to-morrow, at
two o'clock, for the purpose of going up with the address.

, The address was iheri brought up—ana agreed to.
JOINT-STOCK BANKS.
Mr. BLEWITT said, there was a paragraph in the address
referring to the Bank Charter and Joint-Stock Banks ; he
wished to have more information of the course the Government
intended to pursue in regard to those subjects.
Sir R. PEEL said, that her Majesty's Government would
not institute any inquiry into these matters, but they would
themselves undertake the responsibility of all questions con-
nected with the renewal of the Bank Charter and the state of
Joint Stock, and other banking establishments. He could not
then say at what period of the session any such motion would
be made, but it would be made at such a period as would insure
the fullest consideration of it. The most ample notice would
be given when any measure would be brought forward.
Mr. BLEWIT'f expressed his thanks for the information
given to him by the Right Hon. Baronet.
THE IRISH CHURCH.

Mr. WARD seeing the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ire-
land in his place, wished to put a question to him as to some
returns which were ordered last session, and which were not
then made out. There was then a difference between himself
and the Noble Lord as to the amount of the revenue of the
Irish Church. Might he ask the Noble Lord now, if these re-
turns were made out, and when they would be placed in the
hands of Hon. Members ?

Lord ELIOT said all the information which was in the
power of the Ecclesiastial Commissioners to give had been
prepared, and should be furnished. But a great portion of the
revenue of the Church in Ireland did not pass through the
hands of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners ; therefore it was
not in their power to give any return of it. He admitted that
there was a difference last session between the Hon. Member
and himself on this subject, and he was quite ready to acknow-
ledge the accurateness of the calculation made by the Hon.
Gentleman.
METROPOLITAN IMPROVEMENTS.

The Metropolitan Improvements Bill was brought in and
read a first tune, and ordered to be read a second time on
Monday nest.
The Howie then adjourned.