The Sun.
London, England, 1821-02-23 00:00:00

LIMERICK ELECTION.

The Petition against the. Election of the
County of Limerick was ordered to be taken into
consideration on the 15:11 of March.
ASSESSED T.xxE.

Sir M. W. RIDLEY- moved for an account of the
::'amber of
.surcharges on individnals.paying As-
Taxes up-to the 20th of April, and the
. slumber of those who appealed.--Ordered.-=-
. The Hon. Barouet.also gave notice-of. a Bill al-
!:wing persons to compound for Assessed,,Taxes.
Mr. LTISIIINGTON said, that the questiOn 'was
under the consideration of Government. .
Mr. Dzsm tx said, that not .seeing the .Soll-
citor,General in his place, he %%Could not at pre-
sent take any step with respect to the. right as-,
sumed by Courts of Justice to inflict fines on
feAdants for expressions made in the course of
their defence.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
A Message. from the Lords, brought down by
Justice Bayley and another Judge; informed
tw.4 Rouse that their Lordships had agreed. to
thl. Queen's Annuity Bill without any amen&
ts.

GENERAL GAOL DEL!VERT.

Mr. IVEsTEnN wished to know froM the Noble
Lord (Castlereagh) whether any decisive step
bad Even taken by Government on this subject
Lord CASTLEREAGH said,' that lie considered
no object of greater importance to the general
"trarirauillity of the country, and to the cause of
burna7i-ty. lie could assure the Hon. Member
that Government did, not relax their efforts res-
perAing it, and he believed the only question now
was, as to the particular period which should be
L._l(l. upon to give effect to the principle.
kIT.MAINHAM MEETING.

- fiord loam ItussELL Said, he rose for the pur-
pole of presenting a Petition from the Nobility,
(;e ,try, and Freeholders of the County of Dub.;
agreed upon at- a Meeting held in the City
Before he proceeded further, he
deemed it necessary to express his regret, as well
as glieprifc., which would be shared no doubt by
the if ou:--;e; that there being .so many able Mem-
from that part of-the United Kingdom from
which the -Petition proceeded, the Petitioners
should have chosen him to lay their appeal be-
fri.ip.thelionse, but he had nb doubt that in so
doiny, they *ere actuated 'by this generous feel-
Which was an attribute of the national cha-;
ratter ; that they desired to convey the opinion,
that the grievance of whiCh they complained,
071(7i of the whole kingdom; and that if the
i'...;?reson-tation did .liot coistderit one _

in behalf, of the whole kingdom, they
to complain of, the Petitioners did
urge it as merely affecting them-
riThe Petition stated that in the month
!-.'-cember last, a requisition was presented to
Sir . Steele, the High Sheriffof the. County of
D:ll.iin, requesting him to convene a meeting for
the: purpo=,e of voting a dutiful,. loyal, and affed-
tionate.Address to •his Majesty. That this Ite-
luisition was afterward,pulgished, with a Notice
from the Sheriff, calling on the Gentry, Clergy,
and Freeholders to assemble at the new Court.

botiSe,at Kilrnainham, on the 30th of December.
" lie knew the' Noble Lord oppOsite (Lord Castle-
r'. reach) had said that 'County Meetings did not
express the , sense of the Country. He begged
leave. to say, that this doctrine had not always
;. that till the supporters of the Adrni-
'''lritratian had been defeated in ''almost every in-
4. stancer; they had held up County Meetings as the
p'..oper te'st of the public opinion; it was not till
the " grapes 'were sour" that they found out that
County Meetings were no expression of the
opinion of the Conkry.---(Hearl)L—Pursuant to
Ill.?: notice Of Sir R.. Steele, on the 30th Of Dec.
a'number of Freeholders assembled round:the
&lee the' Court-house 'at Kilmainham,• at .12
and. at' 1 o'clock demanded admittance,.
viten they were told by the o£qcers" Veto fttecd'ed

at the dear, that no one could be admitted who
was not specially pointed out by the Sheriff. At
-last, at a quarter past one, the doors were opened
and the Freeholders who entered found the gal-
lery and part of The body of the Court occupied,
chiefly by the Requisitionists. by the Magistrates
of the County and 'City of Dublin, and ae great
number of Poli"Ce Officers. This preSence of Poe
lice Officers, he might observe, thus early, might
be supposed to have done away with the necessity.
of any military interference. Two persons_then
addressed the Meeting, who were inaudible; but
the Sheriff stated that it had been moved by
Lord How th, and seconded by Lord Frankfort,
that an address should be presented. He did not
submit the Motion on the Address to the Meeting,
but proceeded to 'nettle a Committee to prepare
the Address. A respectable Freeholder objected
to this mode of proceeding, and required that the
question should be put. This the Sheriff refused,
and he refused also to take an objection to one
of the 'names, or to put a question upon. it. TbiS
was a singular way of proceeding in a deliberative
assembly ; for what would be thought in that
}louse if the Speaker proceeded to name a
Committee to prepare an Address without an Ad-
dress having been voted.—(Hear !)—Though the
Gentleman who addressed the Sheriff was a free-
holder, the Sheriff said that if he did not desist
he would turn hint out. When the Address was
put, a freeholder of property, and one of his Ma-
jesty's Counsel, Mr. Burne, rose to move an
amendment. This Gentleman prefaced his ob-
servations by 'a declaration of his loyalty to the
King's person and family—.so far he was heard
•with patience ; but when he observed that he also
disapproved of his Majesty's Ministers, he was
interrupted by the High Sheriff, who observed
that this topic was irrelevant, and that he would
not allow Mr. Burne to proceed. It was hardly
necessary to argue in that House, that Mr. Burne's
observations were perfectly relevant. Loyalty•
and attachment to-the Throne being the ordinary
duties of the subject, were in ordinary times
only to be shesin by obedience to the laws. To•
justify any extraordinary profession of that
loyalty it was necessary to state the circumstan-
ces which required, at the particular moment,
that loyal snbjects should approach the Throne'
with their declarations. The circumstances which
were stated ins the loyal Address moved by Lord
Howth were the machinations of the evil-minded,
and the prevalence of blasphemy and sedition. :,,e.
It was, of course, open to the Mover of •the
Amendment to ascribe the danger impending
over the Throne to a different cause, and• to say
that his Majesty's Ministers, were the cause of
the evil.—What his opinion was. as to the com-
parative correctness of the two opinions, was
not necessary for him then to say. But certainly
his • Majesty's Ministers had countenanced the
opinion of M-r.'Burue rather, than that of" Lord
Howth ; for, in the Speech from the Throne, they
had taken no notice of the alleged blasphemy and
sedition,-and in the face of this.danger they had
reduced the army, and one of his Majesty's Mi-
nisters, in giving up the Bill of Pains and 'Penal-
ties in the Lords, Said, that he did so on account
of the stete.af the country,.which; of • course, it
was to be inferred
.the introduction of that Bill
had • occasioned.—[Lord T. here- -read lebe..l
Amendment of Mr. Burne, to shew that it con-
tained nothing disloyal or seditious ; it was a re-
monstrance against the Counsels of his Majesty's
Ministers„ and a prayer to the 'King. to remove.
them.]—He thought, at least, no man• in that
House would deuy that the conduct of. the Mi-.
nisters might- be such that it would- be incum-
bent on men with the wannest loyalty in
their hearts, to go up with such sentiments.—
T.he High Sheriff was not aware of this
part of the Constitution, and declared that
if Mr. Burne did not desist, he would call in the
military—(Hear, hear !)—At this moment, it was
necessary to state, a part of one, of his Majesty's
regiments was stationed as a guard at Kilmain-
ham Gaol, near the Court House. The Sheriff
then refused to put the Amendment ; he put the
Address in. the affirmative only, and when a few
bands were held up in its favour, though there was
a general cry against it, he declared that-it was
duly carried. This was enough irregularity in
one day—(llear, hear !)—and if the High Sheriff
had followed the example, even of the most vio-
lent Sheriffs in England, he would have stopped
him. The freeholders, on the Sheriff having left ,
the Chair, voted Lord Cloncurry, a Magistrate'
of the County, into the Chair, that they might
proceed to consider of another Address:- This.
Meeting being in a room, was perfectly legal by
the late Acts. The High Sheriff, however, de-
clared that-the Meeting was illegal, ande corn-
mending all loyal. men to follow him, left the
'Hall. Soon after, a party. of soldiers with. load-
ed muskets and with drawn bayonets entered the
Hall, and, having made their. way through the
Hall-to Lord Cloacurry, and notwithstanding his
appeal to them as a Magistrate, by threats and
-violence- to• his- • personie compel! ed. him- to. retire.
There.. was one• assertion added in this Petition,'
.which; if not contradicted, could not fail to in-
duce the House to agree to a-Committees which
he hereafter intended to move. During this
proceeding, and previously, the .Meeting had
preserved the most perfectly orderly conduct ;
and, if there had been any disorder, the Police
officers who were -present were sufficient to have
quelled it ; .or, if necessary, 'to have dispersed
the Meeting—(Hear would he unbecoming
for him to say a word to press the illegality of this'
conduct on the Ileuse. If he did so,.he must sup-
pose them dead to the wholesome jealousy at the
introduction of the military power ; he must sup-
pose. that all their feelings for the people were
gone, -should he deem_ it necessary to shew, that if
such conduct was .permitted,• the Constitution
could no longer exist---(Hear !)—An Address con.;
taining the same statement as that in the Petition
was sen t to the Lord Lieutenant, and no answer was
immediately returned. Time was given for a corn-
rnunkation with. England, and the-answer which
was finally returned could not be considered as
that of the IrisleGovernment,.but as coming'fron-I
.the same pizee., from which with such haste
thanks were communicated to the Magistrates and
Yeomen of Manchester—(Hear, hear !)-The
answer. was, that the -Courts of Law. were open
to the cornp.!aints of tire pet:tic/rte.:S. Thay. ware

to go into the Courts of Law without any assist-
ance from his -Majesty's Ministers; and with the
conviction, that- the. whole influence of the Irish
.
Governtherit, as well as-of a powerful faction'in
that country, would, be 'employed to frustrate
their attempts. But he had always understood,
that unless from a corrupt intention, the Courts
of Law Were both to Interfere, either by infortna-
tion or by indictment. But the. House wothilo
see; that it was _fit not only that an officershoultf
not act from a corrupt motive, but that lie should
not violate the Constitution by. intemperance ;
for it often happened, unfortunately, that those
Who were perfectly sincere acted verymischie-
vously,.and- displayed- their zeal in proportion as
they departed from their duty—(llear, hear!)—
If, therefore, they believed the facts, it was the
duty of the Government to take notice. of the
transaction, and if the Government refused to do
so, it became the duty of the House. For what
did they sit there, but to protect the interests of
-the subject, and to redress grievances=a duty
which was not to be postponed to the voting of
money or to disgusting inquiries. The celebrated
Protestation of Right, of 16'21, declared " that
the arduous and urgent affairs concerning the,
King, State, and Defence of the Realm, and of
the Church of England, and the making and
maintenance of Laws, and redress of mischiefs
and grievances which daily happen within this
realm, are proper subjects and matter of counsel
and debate in Parliament." He Would put it to the
House, whethyor this 6onduCt-of the Sheriff was not.
one of the mischiefs which daily happen within the
realm? Again, the Bill of Rights declared " that
for redress orall grievances, and for the amen&-
ing, strengthening, and preserving of the "Laws,
Parliaments ought to be held frequently." if
the House, then, acted in the spirit of that cele-
brated statute, and that memorable protestation,
the House would be more attentive to prevent
i,ofringementf of the Constitution. He had heard,
that 'the Grand Jury of Dublin had sanctioned the
conduct of the High Sheriff. If this was true, the
necessity for the House to interfere became the
stronger, because the act of a hot-headed officer
became that of a great faction., That such a fac-
tion existed, 'to oppress the country which it
should have rprotected, was but too trite; and it
had happened more than once that that unfortu-
nate island had met with- injury from those from
whom ititad•a right to expect kindness ;' it was
that faction which attempted to govern Ireland,
which made it impossible for any''Government
to do justice evenly among the people, which per.
the best human and the best divine
institutions-, had turned the revolution of 1688;
to the purposes of tyranny and intolerance, and
had -drawn from the mild doctrines - of Chris-
tianity, a pretence for'. fury and persecution.—
(Hear, hear!)-The Noble Lord concluded by
moving that the Petition be brought up.
The Petition was brought up, and Lord 3.
Russell moved that it be 'read.

Mr. 'TALBOT said, in seconding the motion as
one of the Representatives of the County of
Dublin, I feel myself called upon to say a -few
words on the subject of the Petition presented
and-supported by the Noble Lord with so much
ability. I was -not p -,sent when the outrage
C9Wpifiirielele;ef—wystx,osrtz 'led.: but I. Inivzir no 1,04
sitation in. saying, from every circumstance which
has come to my .knowledge, that the Petition
contains a c)rrect, although a moderate, state-
ment of. the atrocities which took. place on that
occasion. Shortly after the period alluded to in
the. Petition, I had-the honour to be called to the
chair at.. a-numerous and most respectable meet-
ing of the Freeholders of the County of Dublin,
the great part of whom had attended at Kilmain-
,ham, on the special invitation of the high Sheriff,-
with the impression on their minds, that every
freeholder would be at liberty to deliver his sen-
timents on any measure to be proposed ; instead
of which, they had the mortification to witness
a scene so disgraceful as to be unparalleled in the
annals of any. civilized country—a meeting so
called together and so dispersed by a military
force ; in consequence of which, the meeting -1
had the honour to presideat was convened, for the
purpose of petitioning Parliament for redress,
and.met not at Kilmainham, tile usual- place
where county meetings are held,, but in the city
of Dublin, out of the reach of that, power which
had already insulted them ; and the Petition now
before you was there unanimously adopted. And
the Petitioners are anxious to prove the truth of
the allegations therein contained by affidavits or
_respectable witnesses, at the Bar of this House.
However great my personal esteem may be for
the High Sheriff, I cannot avoid saving, he has,
from some very unaccountable misconception of
his duty, been-misled into a gross violation of the
constitution ; for after baying convened the meet-
ing, it was his bounden duty to put the question
on. the Amendment, which he had no right to as-
sume was less loyal than the Address proposed.
Mr. Talbot then begged leave to read the fol-
lowing.ev.trimisd a_3 utter-from Mr..tharne., de-
scribing the dispersion of the meeting.:—

" When :just inti,te act of I roposioc the 4inenilment, and
before 1 bad time to read it, the military were called io, and
dispersed the Mdeting. '1 had a copy of it in ray hated at the
time, which 'fell down in the confusitio, and stoopinz to take
It np perhaps saved my life, for a soldier came at the 'rear of
the seat I was on, -and violently thrust in his musket, which,
if- it had coins in contact with my head, might have broken
it, hard a+ it is --ViLangh)., If n Committee is wanted to
ingoire into the allegations of the Petition, I am ready to go
over to be examined, as W. It as several others." ,

Now,, allow me to say (continued Mr. Talbot),
if the House of Cothmons suffer such proceedings
to pass unnoticed, in future a County Meeting-
will inde'ed-nerit.no better name than a Political
Farce. Sir, niy. countrymen are an open-hearted,
generous people, and ,are always gfateful for any
kindness sbewn them ; and if his'Majesty's Mi-
nisters either give them back their Parlia-
ment, or the. full benefit of al! those advantageous
promlses made' to them on surrendering their in-
dependence us a separate kingdom, by doing
away all reliz,ious distinCtions, and- by repealing,
that most odious of taxe's, at least in Ireland—
that on ..the light of • Heaven ; and should they
want an equivalent for revenue, they, easily can
find One by imposing a per tentage on the in-
corries'of those absentees, who, having sold their
country-, then deserted it. By such means they
may be•certain of lobtaiing the unbOuAt Ad-
dresses,- not only of the County of Dublin., but
of the whole population of Ireland, without re-

sorting to military or any other discreditable and
ille ;al means of interference.

The' Petition was then read,—Lord J. Itus-
SELL moved that it be referred to a Select Coin-
mittee, to consider the matter thereof and to report
thereupon.
Mr, C. GRANT acknowledged the candour with
which tire Noble Mover had brought thaaques-
tion beforette House. He was anxious -to ata,
dress the Hdlise, mote espAally upon the cesatlO
duct of the Irish Government in relation to this
affair, than upon the abstract merits of the case.
And with that view he would state that it had
no connection uhatever with any part of the,
proceedings upon which the petition was found-
ed. 'NCr communication had been made to it,no
connexion of any kind had subsisted either With
the preparation of the, meeting, or with the ob-
jects for which it was assembled. He hoped that
it was. not necessary for him to make
.that (Us-
claimer,, yet under the particular circumstances
of the case, he thought it advisable to do so. At
the Same tithe he also felt himself called upon to
say, that the individual against whom the accu
sation was made was, as far as he had any knowe
ledge of his character, a person of perfect re-
spectability. No man deprecated the interfer-
ence of a military power more than he (Mr. Grant)
did, where the ditty to be discharged was one
properly belorigiog- to the civil authorities.
And he would say that the same:feelings were as
decidedly entertained by thelriSliGovernMent. He
would say it boldly, because he knew tt could
not be denieds---(Hear, hear, hear De---It had
been a principle laid down and acted upon by
the Government of Ireland 'throughout the whole
of this proceeding,- to abstain from expressing
any opinion upon the charges which were made;
and in the course of the remarkS which he had to
offer to the House, he should adopt • that prin.
ciple, 'and avoid speaking to the merit of the
question at issue. He should confine himself to
a statement Of what had been the 'conduct of the
Irish Government, and to the course which, in
his humble judgment, the House ought to pursue
upon the present occasion. lie should only do
that which in justice to both parties he was bound
to do, lay before the House the statement of the
accused individual, in opposition to the state-
ment of the petitioners. He would not take upon
himself to say which was entitled to credibility,
but he had scarcely ever seen two descriptions
of any one object which so directly contradicted
each other. A letter which he had received
from the Sheriff, stating what passed at the meet-
ing', was supported by the affidavits of -Many in-
dividuals of high respectability, said by the decla
rations of others who offered to depose upon oath to
the truth of the statement. Thatetatetnent opposed
a flat contradiction to almost every circumstance
detailed in the Petition. In the first place,. it
denied the assertion that :he address was not put to
the meeting. It affirmed positively that the ques-
tion was put and carried w4thout opposition. The
next denial was as to the appointment of the
Committee. The Sheriff did not appoint the
Committee, but merely named the first, who
named the second, and so on in the manner in
which all .a'iich Committees were appointed. It
was further declared by the Sheriff, that he never
wrutitmed dm- -military -Tv -441 c tia iv a, 114 tine Cur's
House. • The statement that he refused to put
the amendment was also affirmed to be Untrue.
The request, he said, was never made to him ;
and if it had, the uproar was so great. he could
not have heard it. There was one circumstance,
however, not in the- statement of the Sheriff,
which he (Mia Grant) confessed would have •
created more satisfaction. It did not :repre:-
sent that the amendment had, in fact, been
put. But he knew that the Sheriff had de-
clared to the Lord Lieettnant that it was put,
and his declaration was confirmed by the affi-
davits of others who heard him. Another asser-
tion, contained in the Petition, that the muskets
of the soldiers were loaded, was contradicted by
the Officer commanding the detachment, and
whose letter to that effect he then held in his hand.
Their bayonets had also been unfixed when they
received orders to march to the Court-house. A etc.r
having dissolved the meeting,the Sheriff proceeded
to state, he considered its continuation to be illegal,
and having in vain appealed to the Civil Power,
he had no other resource but to call in the aid of
the military. • The detachment to which he had
made application, was the Ordinary-Jail Guard,
and had not
,beeti appointed with any view* con-
nected with the Meeting. These were the cir-
cumstances under Which the case had been
brought under the notice of the Irish Govern-
ment. On the one hand it had received the
sanction of the Petitioners, and on the other, that
of the Sheriff and other respectable individuals,
containing the. most direct contradictions to each
other. The.question then was, what course the
Government ought to pursue ?.And he could not
see, in the face of such contradictions, how a
censure could hese been justified upon any party.
Now he was ache that it had been. urged, that-ail
investigation ought to have been ordered 'by
the Government of Ireland. But in answer to
that he would ask, what power could the Exe-
cutive Government invest. With authority to bear
evidence upon. the subject upon oath? And with-
out that bond, who could expect but • that the
same statements would be made over: again, of
which the Government were previously in pos-
session ? He conceived such :a course to be quite
impracticable. • Still more monstrous and ridicu-
lous was the proposition that the Government
ought to have suspended the High Sheriff. For
he denied the existence of any poWer which jus-
tified such an act, Under all the circumstances of
the case. It was necessary, even if such an ex-
ercise- of authority was ever warrantable, that the
proof which was acted upon should be clear and
undisputed. The Lord Chancellor could not
suspend a Magistrate .Without the clearest and
most positive nroef of misconduct, and the same
principle would apply to the Government with
regard to the removal of Sheriffs. He believed
there was only one •instance in which a High
Sheriff h'id been removed from his office,
and that was in a case in which the individu-
al confessed an act which was an acknow-
ledged violation _of the duties of his situation.
But here was a' question disputed froin first
te last, upon which a resort to • sec's an ex-

iremity was recommended. besides this, there
were many- legal questions which must be de-
cided before a just decision could be arrived
at. Such questions could only be determined
in a Court of Law. The Courts of Justice were
open, and it was to them the injured parties
ought to apply for redr(Ss*. lie was certain this-
was a case which ought to lie decid€d by the re-
aler tribunals of the country. Tha parties who.
,complained Avere men of rank, talent, and wealth;
.
some of them were itc\customed- to address juries,
and were sufficient judges whether or not the
case could be carried into Court-. Immediately
after.the occurrence of the business, the general
impresion was, that the question was to tie sub-
Mitted to the legal tribunals of the country, and
'ho •was-.not aware that the intention of proceed-
ing w!th that coarse had ever beta altered. Ho
wished to enforce the necessity. of separating as
much as possible the executive power, from the
discharge, of, that duty which accompanied the
office of High Sheriff: r In the Courts of Justice
the .came.. distinction. should be drawn .as widely
as possible, so that, the people might repose un-
qualified conAdencein-• the administration of the
laws., Throe years- ago the .Sheriffs in Ireland
yeeFe completely-under the influence and tram-
mels of the Executive Government. And when,
bv -a. late Act, the appointment of persons to
that office was placed on the Fame footing as if%
England, he was of opinion that a great benefit had.
been conferred upon that country ; because. he
thought tlattppointment ought not to depend upon
.Gove.rnment, any More than the conduct of a She—
riff should. be subjected to. that Government's arbi-
trary, decisions. ..fie would, .upon all- occasions,
reprehend the principle of allowing interference
on the part of the Executive,. in the sdministra-
tion of the laws. It should be a rule hi which at/

exceptions-Ought to be-avoided.. 13ecauseif the
principle was non-interfe=rence, the exception
must be interference. This question did not
affect the privileges of. the House, but jusitly be-
longed to the regular tribunal of the. Country
and the decision of that tribunal was likely. to be
most
_consistent with the ends of justice. It was
'well known that any evidence given before that
,House would not be upon oath. Indeed be did not
know why one party wished to avoid an appeal
to the law. If what they stated eras true, nothing
was more certain than that they would ebtain
a triumphant verdict. He confessed that it
appeared strange to him, that • they should so
anxiously prefer the interference of the House
'of Commons,underall the circumstances to which
he had adverted. According to his opinion, the
course which the- House was hound -to pursue
was, to leave the cr.se untouched and unpreju-
diced to the common law of the land..

Mr. M. FITZGERALD COllithellCed- !.),,i7 pronounc-
ing seote high encomiums upon the Right Hone,
Gentleman who spoke last, whom he tepresented
P.3'svekin4 every opportniiity of introducing prat:- •
tically iate, Ireland the principles and operation
of the liiitish Constitution:. He conceived that
the argaMents which that Right Hon. Gentleman.
had used upon' the present question went to con-
vince him (Mr. M. F.) that a Parliamentary in-
vestigation-of the subject before the House was
absolutely necessary. It had been admitted bvi
14.... :•11:6-ht 11... n. Gitittlernat;, tl-nme -:).:r.v- te,qui
was called for, but the question was,'before at
tribunal should it talee place ? Not before that
House, it was said, because the question did not
affect their privileges. Now he said that it dici
affect its privileges. For that which affected the
privileges of the people, affected the privileges é
that House. - And one of their most important 1
privileges, the right of petition, had been violated
upon the occasion in question. WhEn such *
question was referred to a Court of. Law, thy,
ideatb e
freeholders ryas e t ug It
ortooeixecci
oteunitaylgtohtbeer.roliroZserfro;
thisoutrage ? how were the people of Dublin. to
be'redressed ? Did not the petition which they. wets
stopped from makingrelate•to matters then peon'
ing in Parliament ? And the only redress theff
were to expect for such an outrage upon olle °,
their most sacred rights was—a law suit wilt'
the High Sheriff. But what -was of infiuitelY
more cons,,quence than all was, that the proceed'
ings went to affect the Constitu ion. For if the
interference of the military was allowable in. 0*
coun'y of Dublin, it was allowable also la th 4
county of Middlesex, or in any county in the
kingdo:n. lie objected particularly: to any T'o2 .
ceedings in the Courts of Law in Publitt,:bevu *
it-was impossible to pricure juries who' were no'''
directly or indirectly parties' to the
prose' d'ings themselves. The Right tionoUrable Ger'
tleman -said, that it was not the practice 0
call in .question the conduct ofSheriffs. NOW bet
himself recollected one case', which stmnewh"
as:;imilated to the present. The Hole Member
then proceeded to describe what passed at the
meeting at Kilm sinham, according to an account
which he had received from an individual wll° •
went there with the intention of 'voting for tic
-Ad deess. . - He. "believed stmt the- statement :•-•7,1
in the Petition l
, that the Address was not me',
and seconded, was not, correct. The two I`;ol3'e '
Lords having been shut out of the Court-hotel;
by the crowd, were wound up bypullies, 3,,,,,
introduced through the windows.—(A laugh.) 5
After which, in' the midst of such confusioa a
prevented most petipie.from knowing what wr,
going on, they moved and seconded the -A-(113
dress; stepping forwaiel, and bowingto ",,ti.,
other very like "-the two other Lords, Nt0".4.)
and Dowd e, in Tom Thumb.—(Loud lauglOw"..,
—The interference of the military which fog') t,.
ed the Sheriff's attempt to dissolve the "we' a
hie, was. consonant to that system which I:ea
been the misfortune of Ireland. The Hone"' .'s
bte Member alluded to a meeting held in bli?gst
County, for the purpose of "petitioning agun,,s
the Union, at the time ,when that measure "
stationed'
adopted, where, he said, troops were a
and several pieces of artillery, loaded
d had
•
shot; were pointed towards the meeting, an ~,
the effect of preventing all discussion of the '
top ''_ •
upon which it had been assembled,. it was nobr..
said., that the bayonets were not fixed by .the wrie
litary at Kilmainham. He believed tit .y w.c
not. They were Letter soldiers, and knew tl
e*
for close action, they would be more serviceable
with grape
in their hands. ' The; had proceeded upon Ira
. Military princ:ples.. -tie was of :opining that the

Sheriff ought-la called to the Bar of that
House. Although -the- Irish • Parliament acted a
part almost deserving its annihilation, /et when
it heard that a Sheriff had dispersed a County
Meeting, they, did call him to their Bar.--,-
(Cheers.)--During a late disturbed period,
when a great question agitated this country to
such a degree, Ireland did not join in any ex-
pression of feeling upon the question. Some of
16 friends had complained to him that Ire-
land was tranquil during. that period. She was
indeed tranquil, because she. was heart-broken
with her own calamities, without bringing others
upon herself. He was one who thought that.
under all circumstances,. Ireland should express
no opinion upon the question which had been.
the cause of so much disturbance. Observing
this-state of quiescence upon her part, it had
been attempted to force upon Ireland the Loyal
Addressing System. But, although a blundering
nation, she was able to distinguish between his
Majesty and his Ministers.—(Hear, hear, hear !)
---He did not charge the. Right Honourable Gen-
tleman opposite (Mr. Grant) nor the Irish Govern-
ment with this attempt; but there was a little
Party, a petty kind of cabinet, a sort of jive-
ium in imperio, composed of men, who were
inclined to ride over the measures of Go-
vernment on every occasion.' The Irish were
naturally . a loyal people, and loved their
Sovereign, It had been said that his Majesty
was likely to visit Ireland shortly. If. he did so,
there was no doubt_but.th.at he would he received
,with the utmost enthusiasm by that brave and
_loyal people. But he was convinced that his
_ Majesty would add to the satisfaction of that
People, if - when he. was " half seas over," he
would consent to 66 throw his Ministers over-.
board.”..—(Loud and continued laughter.)—The
non. Member concluded by recommending a par-
liamentary investigation, which he thought would-
do more to soothe and satisfy Ireland, than any
other course which could be pursued. -
Mr. ELLIS (Member for Dublin) bad been
Present at the Meeting at Kihnainham, and he
had received a letter on the subject from the She-
, riff,.who was entirely unknown to him,. He-should
be shrinking from his.duty if he did not produce
the information of which he was thus possessed,
..for the consideration and guidance of the House.
He would. not impute wrong intentions to the in-
!dividuals who made the statement which the Peti-
tion contained ; but he would say that all its con-
: tents were coloured and overcharged, and some
0f- the facts to which it spoke wholly unfound-
, ea. The Honourable Member then proceeded
to eulogize the private character of the Noble
mover and his family connections. ,He must say,
however,thatit was matter of suspicion to him, see-
' •irig as he did, the contentiof the petition so over-
Charged and heightened beyon.d the truth, that the
: Petitioners had selected the Noble Lord to under-
, . take their cause, when their own Representatives
were so capable of advocating it- to their advan-
_ tage. He agreed in the propriety of what had
been done by the Sheriff up to the proposal of
-,-the amendment. And although he would con-
' •less.that he himself should not.have adopted such
a course with regard to that amendment, yet at
Vte same time it did not folloW that the course
s,laajui.tifiabla..:- -But evert-it it was,.neither the
Petitioners, nor any one else, had attributed to
the Sheriff any corrupt motives. And because he
ftitad exercised an erroneous ju-dgment,was he to be
wagged
t to the bar of that House, even without
cnsation?—(Hear, hear hear.)—For he- would
ctend, that in all Courts of Law,. it was ne-
• ,ie,ssarY to prove a corrupt motive : and if in
vr"ils case no corrupt motive was charged, there
1 as no accusation.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—He
lad it-frorn the officer of the guard, that no per-
' 1°44 violence was- offered to any one by the mi-
irtarY• The Noble Chairman was handed out
the Chair.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.)—But
Ze repeated, no personal violence was offered to
tn,Y.One• The muskets of the soldiers were cer-
a'nli not loaded ; but whether they, were or
ja,ot) he thought,. was of very little consequence:
c4l- the, military had been called in, existing ne-
cessity must be shewn which demanded such a
ti'P--(Cheers from the 0 ppo;ition.)—And w he-
iler that necessity existed. in reality or not,
`they had the declaration of the Sheriff, that to
Iris mind there was no other mode of discharging
rs duty. He thought that the Courts of Justice
~!re the proper tribunals for deciding upon the
"its-of this question. He had net suffered a
.I;.°Pular outcry to delude him from doing all in
ols Power to give the Gentleman who was ac-
ti}id an opportunity of exculpating himself from
• li,roputations that had been cast upon-him.
:ac741....r. NEWPORT- thought that it would be an
aggravation towards every Freeholder in
,til'arid for the House to refuse an. inquiry into
e c-
ircumstances- of this case. It was, in his
view
to b of the subject, a great public grievance, fit
(.104e inquired into, and no where could it be
so properly as in the Commons House of
Sher!,Tnent. They hail heard Complaints against
~,ie England, and the House had discussed
• to
I...„Conduct ; but that.conduct had been nothing
e, Qat-was complained of in the Petition. He
~4r4tiltelided that when the Sheriff left the Meeting
A the Peer of the Realm had taken the Chair,
Et Sheriff had no control over that meeting what-
ver
h, By what right had he dispersed it? Did
Av. read the Riot Act ?—(Hear, hear, hear.)-7-
Ithout the Riot Act having been read, he con-
ile_Nied that no power had the right- of dispersiug
,"„rms.eeting constituted as. that was. The Petition-
ai,,,had a right to come to that (louse for redress;
f~ d
Surely that House would not tell them to go
-Vre rdress to a Court of Law. It did not become
House to entrust the discussion of so sacred a
11-14
Es that of petitioning, to. the jurisdiction of
Courts of Law. • If the llouse did so, he
'e4red the people of Ireland wo,ild have but too
`muchreason to regret the loss,of their legal pro-
ors in the. destruction of their own Parlia-
loent.

Mr. D. BRoWNE opposed the motion, and eu-
logized the late tranquillity and loyalty of the
Irish people.
Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT said, that when, he gave
his vote in favour of the restrictive measures of
last Session, he did so because he conceived• them
necssary as temporary expedients, but by nO
teatts jutifiable principle. lie had:conceivi:d

that the unfortunate events at Manchester caused

partly by the imprudence of the Magistrates ant
partly by accident, were kept in discussion for no
other -purpose. than that of irritating the public
feeling.---(llear, hear, hear !)—He had listened
with great attention, as he always did, to the ar-
guments of the Right Hon. Secretary for Ire-
land, but every thing which had been advanced
by that Right lion. Member cos►vinced him of
the prOpriety of appointing a Committee of In-
quiry on the present question. He thought it,
was the bounden duty of the Government to
chew that those restrictive measures had not been
abused ; and he should therefore be sorry if the
Government were to throw any obstacle in the
way of inquiry ; for he was persuaded that In-
quiry alone eteti satisfy the country, or those
who contr*uted to form the majority by which
the restrictive measures in question had been
carried.

Mr.. BATHURST said, he thought he could
satisfy the Hon. Bart. that there was no connec-
tion between the restrictive measures he alluded
to, end the question now before the HouSe; and
that a support,of those measures did not neces-
sarily call for a support of this motion for a Com-
mittee. The question was not upon the conduct
of the Sheriff, 'but upon the tribunal by which
that conduct should be examined. It was not that
the-Sheriff was answerable to the law; but whe-
ther that House. should overleap the law in . tak-
ing upon itself to try all the questions raised by
the. Petition.. rf the state cents', in the. Petition
were true, enough had been shown to sustain pro-
ceedings against the Sheriff . at- law. With re-
spect to the degree of violence which had been
offered to- the Noble Chairman, it was clear that
the degree of violence was perfectly immate-
rial in a legal-point of view. The slightest force
would be sufficient upon which to maintain an action
or an indictment. The punishment of the Sheriff
could be of little utility with the view to his fu-
ture conduct; for he was now out of office, and the
object, therefore, could only be to prevent simi-
lar conduct in future Sheriffs.—(Hear, hear! from
the Opposition.)—But if separate actions could
be sustained against_ the late Sheriff, at the snit
of every individual injured, the object in the
way of example would be fully accomplished.—
(Hear, hear ! from the Treasury Benches.)—
And it would not be denied, that from the ad-
vantages possessed by the Courts of Law in the
modes of inquiry, they had better means of ascer-
taining the truth than those of the House. With
regard to the case mentioned by the Right lion.
Member for Kerry. (Mr.. M. Fitzgerald) it was
not a little singular that, on examining the J ournals
of the Irish Hr use ,of Commons on that occasion,
it wOuld.be found that that House had resolved
the condttet of the Sheriff, and the Military Offi-
cer who acted with hiM, to be praiseworthy, cal-
culated to secure the_ public peace ; and to entitle
them to the-thanks of the House.—(Cheers.)—
(The lion. Member here read the Resolution,
which was to the effect he had stated.)—lt was
not,. be believed, improbable that .the Right
Hon. Member opposite had. himself Concurred in
t`hat Resolution.--(Cheers)—With reference,
Nowever, to the present Petition, he should ob-
serve that he pronounced no opinion upon the
Meeting alluded, to in the .Retition. ,
The
question was highly iinporttint, and was - fit
for the consideration of. those tvho could legally
inquire into it. Indeed, it was intimated to
him by his Right Honourable Friend the Secre-
tary of Ireland, that legal proceedings were
now in progress. It might therefore happen.
that upon the result of a committee, the Sheriff
might be acquitted, and yet be afterwards
-convicted .by the Courts of Law. This alone
rendered it clear 'that the punishment. of the,
Courts of Common Lawwoulil have the intended
salutary effect ; and assuming that this House,.
and the Courts of Law, possessed concurrent Ju-
risdiction on the question, it would be more pro-
per for the House not. to interfere. More sit-
ting down, he would first observe, '(with refer-
ence to the calling in of the military at the meet-
ing in question,) that the military was thenrd7-
dina.ry Gaol Guard of Ireland, to which the
Sheriff would, therefore, under the circumstances,
very naturally resort.
Mr. MallatcE Frrzartteen explained. He
alluded to the King's Counts, 'Meeting, to shew
that a parliamentary inquiry had followed:
Mr. BATHURST also explained.
Mr. J. P. GRANT said, there was now a grave
case before the House which.called for Parlia-
mentary investigation. It appeared to him that
all the arguments of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
and of those who had pursued the same line of
observation,proved this., if they proved any thing-7-
that there was no case where private individuals,
having remedy- at law, ought to 'be allowed to
come for redress to that House. If that were
indeed the, case; he wondered why they sat at all
as a House ..t l‘rliament—(Hear I)—because he
always u iderstood that their fiat and most solemn
d Ity wss to'protect the-rikicts of the people, and
not to leave thow rights in grave and important
cases, particularly cases connected with the rights
of petition, to the vindicationof Courts of Law
still less to the protection. of -individuals, who
might be prevented by -a thousand_ circumstances
from instituting proceeditCgs at law.
Mr..Eeets read a passage from the Petition,
to show that the allegations contained in it were
different from the account he and others gave 'of
the transaction.

Mr. MARTIN, of Galway, considered the pre-
sent subject not only as not desirable for the
consideration of a Committee, but it ought not
to occupy the attention ofl the House. A legal
remedy could be obtained far the, injury, and
that too without the interference or -the order of
time Ifouse. If the parties injured were unable
from poverty to obtain redress, the _House might
order legal proceedings ; but the .Noble Chair-
man of the, meeting (Lord Cloncurry) was not
only one of the millionaires_ of the county, but
was.su pported_ by his lawyers, .M.r. O'Byrne and
Mr. O'Connor.—(A laugh.),—He Thought, be-
sides, that. the house ought not to prejudge the
proceedings, for it could not he doubted that the
opinion of the House would have a,strong ten-
deacy *to prejudge the accpsed ;•incleee!, iLwould
'be- like a-,Barl'3-ariat :throwdug his sword into ti e

• scale, anti he hoped the Hotise.w3Ula not exer-
ciseits sword in this manner-.--(Laughter.). ,
Mr. PEEL, in voting against the Dre3ent motion,
wished to guard against any possible unisconstrtic-.
elm), for he certainly could not express any ap-
probation of the conduct of the Sheriff in the
introduction of the military. Such an approba-
tion indeed would poittradict the,principles upon
which he had nuifdrmly acted when he held an
official-situation in Ireland. Ile had been ac-
cused of extreme severity in the measures Which.
he adopted at that time, but
.he thought it better
to put down the systeLn of illicit distillation by.
strong and coercive laws, and to discourage the
constar,t interposition of the military. He re-. 1
gretted that recourse had been had to the mi
litary on this occasion. A local inquiry hito
the circumstances would perhaps have been
the less objectionable course ; but even then
the benefit arising from . such an inquiry
would have been More than balanced by the
inconvenience of any interference on the part of
the Government with the functions of the execu-
tive officer.—ln his opinion ,it would be much
better to leave the question to the decision of a
Court of Law ; not that it might not ;:e properly
investigated by the 'louse of Commons, but, as
he conceived, not so advantageously as by the le-.
gal tribunals. The more the lion. Baronet and
other-Hon. Members established the illegality of,
the proceedings at Kilmainharn,. the more they
convinced him that the matter ought to be submit-
ted.to a Court. of Laov ;_and
,w,ith respect to the ob-
serve dons. which had fallen from an.llon. Gent. as
to the probable compoSition of. the Grand Jury
before whom a bill of Indictment must be
preferred, he (Mr. Peel) thought it woull be ex-
tremely bad policy on the part of the House of
Comnionslo discountenance that 'valuable insti-
tution, the Trial by Jury, by shelving- that they
supposed it possible that any such injustice Could
be done as that alluded to by the lion. Gentle-
man. Whether on the general or on the particu-
lar principle, therefore, he must oppose •the mo-
tion of the Noble Lord.
Mr. C. GRANT explained.
S:r J. MactityroSx_ said this was not a local

question, for it affected the interests of the whole
country. It was respecting a right, the violation
of which had hurled a family from the English
Tfuole. It had been argued: by the other side,
and h.. admitted the force of the argument, that
it wo ild have been improper to dismiks the She-:
riff from his Office without Judicial inquiry.—
But, if the argument was just as applied to a
Sher:ff, where had been the tenderness shewn
to one of the most respectable Noblemen'
in the country, who had been dismissed from
an eminent office in the coarsest and rudest
manner, with Out hearing him in his defence ?
(Cheers from the Opposition.)---The case,
he contended, was a case of constitutional
right ; ,and it would not affect the jnrisdiction of
that House, though every individual
,who had
been injured could obtain his individual remedy
at law. He denied, however, that there was
a legal remedy at law for any injury occasioned
by the Sheriff's conduct. The Sheritf,,it seemed,
had originally spoken in a very- moderae tone of
voice; but when.. he . called for the police, the.
Hall resounded..., -lie -whispare.,4 questiew, xnd
roared out menaces. For this conduct there
could be no remedy at law. No one had ever
read of the duty Of a Sheriff and 'President of a
Cotiaty Meeting. Such a duty was no part of
the Common or of- the Statute Law. It al).-
peared too, that he threatened to put down
the peaceable Freeholders by the military.—
_(c That is denieti,' was. observed by several
Members on the Treasury Bench.)—lt, certainly
was in the Petition.—(Hear, hear, from the
Opposition.)—Take it, however, as denied ; mud
it then affords a stronger argument for inquiry—
(Cheers from the Opposition-Members.)—lt was
undeniable that no action -whatever could be
maintained against the Sheriff without proving
express malice. The question in a Court of Law
would he not whether the Sheriff had exercised

his discretionary power with propriety ; but whe-
ther he had that discretionary power at aIL He re-
peated that no remedy could be obtained at law
uithaat proof of express malice; and this circnua-
staacc alone formed a sufficient ground for the inter-
ference of that House. lie should not ground the
vote he intended to give that'evening upon any
consideration which could be deemed a reflection
on the Grand Jury or the 'Petty Juries of Dublin:
Ile merely grounded it on the general principles
•

e had laid dowth Whether there were means or

not of private redress, his opinion would not be
changed. Be could not consider that a satisfac-
tory reason for the, House of Commons not enteic
'ng into inquiry on a public qUestion.
Mr, SRAw was desirouS of 'saying a feiv words
on the subject, as. one • who (vas -present at the
Meetiug in question. From his knowledge of
the High Shertf of Dublin, acquired by Meeting
him upon Grand Juries, and on other occasions,
he felt confident that his contact' on the. day of
the Meeting at.Kilmainham did not proceed from
any corrupt motives. He was far, however,from
thinking that he had u6t used very; indiscreet
measures on that occasion ; And if there were no
other way of _calling him to account for that con-
duct, he would certainly vote for the Committee.
But as he was certain that the matter was open
tn the courts of law,; and he assured the House
there was a general opinion in Ireland that legal
proceedings were likely to be adopted, he thought
it would be a great hardship upon the High Sheriff
to bring him to the liar of that House. He
thought such a step would also, have the effect of
prejudging the case.
Lord CASTLEREAGH assured the House that
the few observations he was about to make would
not be founded on, the merits: of the,charge :made
against the High Sheriff of Dublin. He entirely
concurred with his Hon. Friend behind him (Mr.
Shaw) in the sentiluents-he.hadexpressed on the
subject." 'He regretted -the circumstance of mili-
tary force.having been used.; but his opinion wai
grounded on what he thought it most prudent
and wise for the House to do. He was not at
all surprised at the advice given by the Hon.and,
Learned Gentleman (Sir J. Mackintosh); for it
wasApite:consistent-with:the able argument 'he
had indulged House with, in erderto shew
that an inquiry :ought .to be instituted- into The

proceedings which had taten place at Man-
chester:. The Hon. and _Learned Geuileitian
would, he hoped, forgiVe him, for obserVing- that
he had in the speech that he had just delivered,
so closely followed the line Of afgument he had
Pursued on that occasion; in which he failed to
convince the House, that he had not even whit-.
ted the topic of Lord Fitzwilliaufs dismissal.
For his own part, he. confessed he could -not
see wllat_ comparison could be made betwixt
_a- Lord Lieutenant of a. Conilly and a High
Sheriff, in respect of their connection with the
Government: He had never heard that the
High Sheriff of a County was a confidential
officer of the Government,- or that the same de-
gref. of confidence 'should exisLbetween such an
-appointment and the existing Govermnent, as in
the appointment of a Lord Lieutenant. In fol,
lowing up his former speech the Hon. and Learn-
ed Gent. ought not to have omitted to sinew that
'thy two cases were -precisely similar; and as he
was unsuccessful in his. attempt to persuade the
,HouS-e to institute a Parliamentary inquiry into
the Manchester transactions, the same fate ought
to attend his attempt on the present occasion.—
In the Manchester case the Magistrates called
in the Military, and certainly they were em-
ployed under more diSastrous circumstances than
in the present case. Therefore if the House did
not think fit to institute ail inquiry on that occa-
sion, by parity of reasoning it could not do so
now. The Hon. and Learned Gentleurian had

not attempted to show that the parties aggrieved
had not the means of pursuing their complaints in
the Courts of Law ; and it followed therefore,
that he would have the House go into the inves-
tigation of every complaint made against every
Magistrate in the kingdom, whatever the offence
charged, and by whomsoever.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH.—h every case affecting
the Constitutional rights of the subject.
_ _ _ .

Lord CASTLE4EACTIL—That be di:!. not think

would much narrow the scope of their Parlia-
mentary duties—(llear, hear')—lle (Loral Ca's-
tlerengh). was the last man in the House who

would wish to circumscribe the Constitutiona

functions of that House ; but he really did not
think that this was a proper case for Parliamen-
tary inquiry. In this opinion the course of Par-
liamentary practice bore him out. An Hon.Gen-
tletnan on the third bench opposite quoted an in-
stance of such inquiry from the time of Charles
the Second; when an Hon. and Learned Gent, on
the floor said he did not think those times the hap-

piest that could be-quoted from. and protested
against any precedent drawn from such a source
being acted upon in the present day. And with
this exception in the Reign of Charles H. there
was not a single inquicy 9f this description on the
annals of Parliament. He could not admit the jus-
tice of the reasoning that because the Irish Par-
liament had adopted a certain course under cer-
tain circumstances, the United Parliament was
bound to act in a similar manner. But the cases

were entirely different. Ilad the Commanding
Officer at Kilmainham c,lled out a large military
force to overawe. the Sheriff, then as such an act
would appear to he authorized by the Crown
against the Constituted Authorities, it would
very properly excite the jealousy of. Parlia-
ment._ Here, however, ..the case was-1,640y
different, for the military were called out by
the Magistrate, and acted under his autho-
rity and directiou, and the only question was,
whether he was justified under the circum-
stances of the case in using military force.
In the case alluded to.; as having undergone
_ _

investigation in the Irish Parliament, a large
military force was drawn up in the neighbourhood,
with cannon pointed, to overawe the meeting.—
The question for the decision of the House was,
whether the question could be better investigated
in thßt House than in a Court of Law. In this

point of view, be thought nothing could be more
unsatisfactory than the proposition of the Noble
Lord whose motion was before the House. Ac-
cording to his proposition, all the witnesses, which
it was obvious could not be few in number,
were to be transported to that House. Even if
they were prepared to transfer all their angry
feeling from Dublin to this country, he asked
the House how it would be possible to send
all that up stairs ? It was plain that if the House
went into the matter at allOt Must be at the bar,
turd not in a Select. Committee. The utmost
that could he done by a CoMmittee up stairs
would be to perform th-e part of a Grand Jury,
and report to that House if' there were grounds
to go into an inquiry. He submitted then to the
House, whether it would be prudent to adopt
such a course in a case like the present, which was
little less complex than that of Manchester, which
in spite of •the Hon. and -Learned Gentleman op-•
posite (Sir J. Mackintosh); the House had re-
fused to go into ? Looking evert at the points of
the case itself, be did not think it was one which
the House would feel disposed to charge itself
with. Great difficulty would be felt i❑ determin-
ingwhetlker the Meeting, after the departure of the
Sheriff, was atlegal one or not. Neither. could he
believe that the Hon. and Learned Gent. would

be able to persuade the Mouse to go into all the
details of the Meeting, before and afterthe Sheriff
left the Chair. The House must consider, , that
by establishing •such' a preCedent they pledged
thernielves .to become the future umpires, to see
fair play at every public meeting in the. • United
Kingdom. He apprehended that some of the
largest legal questions that' ever had been
in-
volved in any matter, would arise
.out of an inves-
tigation of this subject,--Such as it would, not
be -likely they would ever •be• able to settle.
First, there would be the question.of wh?thor it
was a legal or illegal meeting after the. Sheriff left

the Chair.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH said he had particularly
excluded that question.
Lord.,CAsTt.crtslott observed, in continuation,
that it was „particularly .conveniet.t for the Hon.
and. Learned Gentleman to exclude the discus-
sion of every topic not likely to• fall in with
his view of .the
:case, and perhaps• he meant to
go ,on with' that system. 11,e would permit
him ,(Lord Castlereagh), however, to say; that
he could not :consistently with his duties as a
Member of the • Legislation vote for.. his Bill of
Exchtsions'--1-(A _was .sure the
House • would see the riannifold -difficulties into

*Licit these legal questionS vvould involve
thew, if they were to enter upon such an in-
qUiry-as th-e'rziotfon'brthe. Atob Lori would
pledge thetn• to. - He -did'uot'*igh 'fa-give ant
opinion on these points himself ; bu-t: was
sure the House must Perctiite the obstai.leS"they
must overcome before they conlftforin a d-ciOott
on such topics satisfactory to thernseive;rt4 ict
upon. The parties aggrieved the-tuna's:oi
bringing the case to ati issue in a 'Cottrt• of sits,;t
for if Lord Cloncurry-was forcibly removed from
the Chair, he might have his remedy .in
an action or an indictment Etgainst the Sheriff 'kJ
authorised that removal—and in that Vtit;t: the

whole question ;night be put in issue; It was truly,
surprising and curious to observe how this- love o
Parliamentary inquiry had zrown up of late. it
was no later, he believed, than last night tha.t.'ke
had heard it stated in that House that it was trfit
to he trusted with any grave-matter wh'atovec-ff,.-
that it was not worthy the confidence of the n-
tion.--(1/ ear !)—The country, and Hon. 0-ectle-
tnen opposite, were naturally attached to tit?...
Trial by Jury, and the laws of the country, in
contradistinction to the-privileges of that House.'
How came it then, he should like to know, that
when the.y had all the tribunals of a Copstita-
tional nature open, they should prefer the 1-fon:>-3
of CoMmons? Was it because it was wished t
propagate an opinion abroad, that- the House o
Commons, in referring the matter to the Courts of
Law, were thereby guilty of another abdicutipa of
their duty ? He hoped the House would act in thii
case as they had done in the MaticheSter case--,-re •
fer the-matter to the Courts of Law. And. if he did
not see that the parties availed thernselves of this
remedy, he Should come to the' Same Conch!.
sion he had arrived at in that ease, viz.—that
either the cOMplairiants had ho case, or that they
preferred to leaVe unredressed their own wrongs,
in order to have an exti'atopic of inflammation.
in that House and the Country.—(Hear, hear.)
He would offer 'no opinion in condernnaticn

otherwise, of the High Sheriff. He merely sti-
rnitted that the House could not-go into the
quiry. consistently with the justice of the case,
or with the practice of the Constitution ; and if
they established a precedent for charging tham-
selves with a duty which the Courts of Lavr
could better discharge, they might at ono fay
down all their ordinary functions in favour of the.
new and ample field which would then be opened
to them.—(Hear, hear, with cries of " Ques-
tion!")_

Mr. M. FITZGERALD explained. '
Lord BECTIVE said a few words in explanation
of what had been insinuated by an Hen.Alember,
to the effect that the Loyal Addfesses fi:om Ire-
land had all .been set on foot in, conseqUence of
hints from the Ministers. He belted to assura
the Hon. Gentleman, that the Loyal Address to
the Crown from the County of Meath 'was not 1,1
that predicament, and had not proceeded fro7n
any hint froth any Member of. his Majesty's Go.
vernment, or person connected with them.—
(Hear, hear !)—With respect to the qufistipn be-
fore the House, he should vote against the mo-
tion, as he thought the High Sheriff of IJubl;4l

had acted with judgment and propriety..
Mr. CILEEVEY said, that eight years after the
light of lietitionin.! had ..;been- interrupted trt
military power, the people of
did justice on the author of it, James the Second,
and if ever such an attempt were made -ag.-0.171
he hoped the- same salutary-lesson.wonld .be re-
peated.
Mr. WYNNE spoke against the motion.- Itle
thought there were grounds for a criminal infor-
,mation against the Sheriff of Lublin in tlie3i g's
Bench, but he .could-not agree to that Ho*
terferincr in the matter. The only result of as
inquiry by that House would be, an ,Address
his.Mesty, praying him to order the 4ttot:ney-
General to institute proceedings in. the
_King.:s
Bench against the parties. It was itlaiii,Jher. -
fore, that to agree to the motion of the
Lord would be an useless waste of the time,of tta4
House.

Lord J. RUSSELL shortly replied, and after %
few words in explanation from Mr. C: COLAN 7,
and Mr. WYNNE, the House divided ; he-nu-
bers were—

For the Motion .

Against it
Majority

1 .2- i

Lord BINNING obtained lave to-bring 'in a Bi 1 1
to appropriate the unclaitned prize-moliey uf in-
dividuals in the East India Service.

STANDING ORDERS.

Mr. W. W INNE moved " That the House do
not accede to any motion fol. an Address to the
Crown, praying that' any money he issued,; or any
expenee incurred, .unless in' a Commiktee of the
whole House, and that the-same be entered OTi
the Journals as a Standing Order."
Mr. CREEVEY gave his support to thellesol4-
tion ; be saw that the House had, late lasltAii,-,Nt,
and when there were only perhaps three- Nie-n-
-bers and the Clerks present,--(A laugh D.-Lye:ed.
a sum of 50,000/. as a remuneration to Clei•ks is
Ireland.

After a few words from Lord C.1.-14-rt..Eht: tc.lt
and Sir J..NEweokT, the motion was cartle.2..
On the motion of Mr. W. WY NNE,, a Select
Committee was appointed, to consider of the best
means of introducin,g Public Bills into that House.
General HART presented a Petition frorn. the
Gentlemen, Clergy; and Freeholders or the
County of Donegal, praying the House to recon-
sider the Act of last Session for the Preventit,n of
Illicit Distillation.

•After alew words from the Chancellor 'of •,tbe
Exchequer, Mr. D. Browne, Ceueral nart, and
Mr. Rice, the Petition was ordered tobe
TIIE PATEN RIGHT% BILL
Mr. CurtwEN moved th.e second reading:of the
Patent Rights Bill. -

-.•
The AtTOZNEY-GENERAL OppOSCOfrethotion,
and moved, as an anietOment, that the bo
read a second time on this day six months.
After a few words from Mr. Hume,
man, Mr. Curwen, and Mr: J. P.
,Grant, the.
was withdrawn, with lit understanding thit
would be introduced different forna4 the
course of the Session.
On the motion of. Mr. KENNEDY the Scots