The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-04 00:00:00

intends(' k tai see ; he seemed very acquiescent
and satisfied. But the Government had at-
tempted to make the duty dependent on quality
before, and it had entirely failed. Were they
going to depart from this principle? if they were
he would give the Chancellor of the Exchequer all the
time that he might require before he informed the
House.
Mr. THORNELY said if it were possible to provide
all the quantity of sugar for the supply of the country
from the port of London, then it would be practicable to
arrive at a classification of the qualities of sugar.
But as they imported sugar into the ports of Hull,
Liverpool; Greenock, Dublin, Cork, Limerick, and
Belfast, he was persuaded that it was impossible.
All experience went against it. - The Hon. Member for
Beverley instanced a case where Mr. Huskisson
attempted to classify the suear duties and it
failed. Latterly it had been attempted to classify
tea, since the opening of the China trade with this coun-
try. There was also the case of cotton-wool--it was for
sometime at an ad valorem duty, but that was found not
to answer. There was so much detention of goods under
those duties that the merchants came to Lord Althorp,
when .he was Chancellor of the Exchequer, and prayed
of him.to flx the duty, which he did. He objected alto-
gether to the differential duties.
Mr. HOGG was aware of the impracticability of
making a satisfactory standard, but he trusted they
would wait and see what the standard was that
was intended to be brought forward. If it was
satisfactory, all well and good; if it was not, then let it be
objected to; for his own part he was willing to wait till
he beard what the proposal of the Government was.
Under these circumstances he (Mr. Hogg) thought
that it was well worthy of the consideration of the
Government. He was not of opinion that the matt,r
should thus be given up ; but, on the contrary,
he would assure the Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Hawes),
that he felt it his duty to continue the fight, and not
discontinue the battle, but divide the House again and
again, not once, but a dozen times if necessary.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
he was acting, as he conceived, under the advice of the
House, and more especially under the advice of the lion.
Gentlemen on the other side of the House. He under-
stood that it was wished, before he Bill proceeded to a
Committee, that he should make a reference to brokers
of experience, in order to ascertain their opinions re-
specting the plan that was to be pursued. From the ob-
servations that he had just made, he was led to suppose
that he had been in error in his apprehension of the
Hon. Gentleman's intention, but since Friday, he had
been engaged in making the necessary inquiry of
brokers of eminence. From what he ha I learned from
those gentlemen, he was induced to believe that the 4th
of March would be too early a day fur bringing the
duties which they proposed into effect. That was too
early a day for the merchants in general, but especially
for those whose stocks yet remained in the Government
warehouses. On such stocks the day was evidently too
early, and from the statements which he had heard, he
was not certain, but that on these stocks the
duties might be suffered to remain, as they
were, for another year. This was not unusual
when any alteration was proposed in customs'
duties, and on the occasion of these duties being
mooted last session of Parliament, he had stated
that he conceived, under certain circumstances—such,
for instance, as the present—that might be the best plan
to pursue. It was not merely the sugar duties which
were to be renewed for twelve months that was to be
the effect of the enactment, but it was distinctly stated
that the time for considering the sugar duties would be
at the period when the property-tax would expire, when
that tax would be brought under consideration again.
He had thought that by giving a month's notice he
would not be interfering with the due course of trade.
Mr. WALLACE said that no such impression as that
which the Right Hon. Gentleman had stated had existed
in the public mind. The public w, re not aware that the
sugar dutieswere contingent on the renewal of the preperty.
• t ax. On the contrary, the public had believed that the Right
lion. Baronet would keep his pledge, and not renew the
tax at all. He (Mr. Wallace) thought it would not be
convenient to press a division us to whether the 14th
was sufficient notice cr not. It might be sufficient for
London, but he hardly thought it would be so for the
more distant parts of the kingdom. But he would beg
to protest in the most solemn manner against it being
said that it was understood that those embarked in the
eugar trade had any idea that the proposed chang -s
weuld take place beore the sth of A?rd. It was the
practice for the last two years of her Majesty's Minis-
ters- not to bring up the Budget before that time; and
be (Mr. Wallace) was I,cl to understand that the same
course would be followed this year.
Lord SANDON said he agreed with his lion. Friend
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that tt.oie dealers in
sugar who paid the duty uron it. and left it in the
Queen's warehouse, were not entitled to more considera-
tion than those who paid the duty and had it removed
to their own premises ; but at the same time he was of
opinion that all who had paid that duty were entitled to
some consideration, provided there was no fraud in-
tended. He was also of opinion that the retail traders
in the article should be allowed a fair time to get rid of
their stocks on hand. If they were not, where was the
retail dealer who would lay in a new stock until the pro-
posed alterations in the duties should take place? How-
ever, he did think that, tinder the circumstances ex-
plained by the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, the wholesale grocer had no reason to complain
that he had not had notice that this measure would not
have been brought on in the early part of the session.
Sir WM. CLAY thought that all objections would be
removed by extending the thee. He did not think that
any Custom-house officer would be able to distinguish
the different kinds of sugar, and carry out the proposed
classification. He meant to show that where such a
classification had Bien attempted, it had been almost a
dead letter, and he thought it would be better to abandon
it altogether.
Sir R. PEEL was still engaged in making inquiries
on the subject, which he admitted was most 'important,
but at the same time a most difficult one, and one on
which he was not at present prepared to pronounce an
opinion. He hoped, as the matter was one of great im-
portance, that the House would pass the Sugar Duties
1.31.11 before Easter. He did not wish to take the House
by surprise, by reserving his opinion till they were in
Committee on the Bill, and he would give two days'
notice of his intention of bringing the subject forward.
He hoped the House would not draw any di-unction be-
tween the wholesale and the retail dealers, with regard
to any remission of duty. It was said that the retail
dealers would be enabled to get rid of their stock be-
fore the 14th of March. NON, no doubt tie consumers
were abstaining from the purchase of sugar as much ns
possible, and mine"- substitutes fur it. He admitted that
there might be individual cases of hardship, but it was
impossible to accomplish any great public good without
the infliction of hardship.
Mr. LA.BOUCIIERE said he had heard with great
satisfaction the declaration of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, that he was disposed to consider thoroughly and
completely the question of classification, before he
asked the to pledge its.,lf on the question. It
was a subject that was most inpertant, but one of as
much difficulty as importance. He ha I approached this
d seussion with the belief that the classification of sugars
waa on the whole, the best course that could be adopted;
and that was the opinion of the lite Mr. Hume, although
he did not contemplate the distinction made by the
Right li nourable Baronet between slave-labour and
free lab air sugar. He apprehended that the principal
inducement which Mr. Hume teal. in taking that cour.e,
was to meet the case of the fine white Fugars of the tin-
vannah. As the discussion had proceeded he had be•
come strongly impressed with the extreme difficulty of
. this qaestion. He believed that an equality between
sugars of British produce was the only sound basis, and
he hoped the Government would not do anything to
militate against it. He was glad to hear the Right Hon.
Gentleman say he would give the House full time for
consideration before the House plcdged itself on the
subject, but he did think, after the alarms expressed by
the East India. Company as to the effect of the clas,ifi-
cation en the sugars of the East Indies compared with
those of the West Indies, the Government was bound to
give a clear answer, whether they intentred to
adhere to their declaration or not. As to
the other question that had been raised in the
course of this conversation, he agreed with the Right
Hon. Gentleman as to the expediency of giving a draw-
back, or making an allowance, when there was a change
in duties which was supposed to act unfavourably to ex-
isting interests. At the sate time, he could not agree
with him that the sugar trade had not been placed in a
peculiar situation, frost the unusual time of the year at
which the alteration had been made in the present in.
stance. He should be glad if any individual who was
suffering from the change, could have the inconvenience
in the slightest degree obviated by giving him a fair
time, though he should not think it expedient very
greatly to extend it.
Mr. M. GIBSON thought a very strong case had
been made out for the postponement of the ques-
tion of the sugar duties.—(Hear, hear.) In the first
place, it was clear Hon. Gentlemen required the
classification of sugars; and, in the second, the mer-
chants wished to get rid of the stock in hand. The
Right Hon. Gentleman ought fully to make up his mind
on the question of classification, before he again brought
it under the notice of the House, so that it might be-
come law at once. The Right Hon. Gentleman admitted
that classification was not practicable.—(No, no.) He
could not say that classification was practicable—(Hear,
hear)—but said he would inquire. Ile (Mr. M. Gibson)
had receii el letters fr. m several of his constituents, re-
presenting that, of all the plans ever proposed, this of
classification was the most visionary and impracticable—
they said it would beimpossible to carry out an ad valorem
duty on such an extensive and complicated system of clas-
sification, and that such an attempt would open a door to
fraud, and hinted that if Custom-house officers had not
more than Roman virtue they could not withstand the
temptations which this measure would throw in their
way: The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the
opinions of Custom-house officers as favourable to the
proposed classification ; but he thought the opinions of
men who would be naturally interest( d in finding em-
ployment for themselves, and increasing their own
emoluments, should be received with grefat caution. They
might talk glibly enough of the,
brownese o
dascerdtaining the
difference between white clayed, atye , and Mus-
covado sugar, but it was another thing. ‘ao.earry it into
effectual practice. The hope of gain gave men
ninatkonv.ery
favourable opinions of their powers of discrimination.
Mr. Mr. GLADSTONE disagreed as to the propriety of
postponement with the Hon. Member for Manchester,
and thought tbat such a course would be atten-ed with
a serious loss not only to the revenue but to the eon-
Burner. It was said that by the measure coining into
operation at once the sugar refiners we uld suffer a great
deal, but he thought they would suffer just as much
hardship if the Government postpened the sugar duties
to that time of year when the question was usually
brought forward. Suppose no statement had been made
on the sugar duties until the beginning of June, what
would be the result—would confidence have prevailed
in the interim in the market? He thought not—the