The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-07 00:00:00

as he intended, at a future time, to move "an inquiry
into the whole question of the administration of the
police.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was not at all prepared fo r
the speech the Noble L!.,rd had delivered, as he had re-
ceived no notice whatever of his intention to I ring the
subject forward. The Noble Lord had last year moved
for a similar return, and he (Sir James Graham) then
stated he was ready to accede to it ; nor had he
now any objection to granting the present one. In the
absence of the Chief Secretary for Ireland, and without
notice, he could not go into the details of the
.•sultject,
but he believed it would be found that the Lod Lieu-
' tenant of It eland had fully carried out the administration
of the law intrusted to him.
Lord CLEMENTS apologised to the Right lion.
Baronet for the abrupt manner in which he had brought
the subject forward, but he still contended it was one
calling for inquiry.
The ATTORNEY •GENT,:RAL (Ireland) quoted
the 12th section of the Arms' Act, under which the Lord-
Li‘htenant had proceeded, and added that there was no
disposition on the part of the Government to withhold
any information.

After an explanation from Lord CLEMENTS, which
was interrupted by cries of " Spoke," and a few words
from Mr. F. FRENCH, confirming what had fallen from
the Attorney-General, the Return was ordered.
Lord CLEMENTS then moved for " a Return from
the Clerk of the Crown of the county of Leitrim, of the
names and residences of those Jurors who were ord, red
to be fined by the Judge of Assize at the Summer As-
sizes of 1844, held in Carri,k on Shannon ; and Copies
of the Affidavits of any such Jurors accounting for their
absence, together with the Orders of the Judge of As-
size thereon."—Agreed to.
Lord CLEMENTS then moved for a return, showing
the number of policemen in every county in Ireland w ho
do not perform the duties of constables, but are em-
ployed either as clerks or officers' servants, having charge
of horses or otherwise, distinguishing the number of
men in each employment other than that of a constable,
together with the expense, including all pay and allow-
ances of those in each employment.
After a few words from Mr. BROTIIERTON and
Mr. FRENCH, the return was agreed to.
Mr. WALLACE then moved for a return by name of
each railway company which had complied with the sixth
clause of the Act of last session for the regulat'on of
railways, and which came into operation on the Ist No-
vember, with the date of such compliance, as to the car-
riages having scats and being protected from the wea-
ther, for the conveyance of third•class passengers; also,
I a similar re tu:n of those which have not complied with
the sixth clause of the said Act; and specifying also
the hours of the day and the speed of the trains in each
case respectively, under the penny a mile clause; the
return further to show the steps taken (if any) to re-
cover the penalties provided by the said Act.—Agreed to.
Mr. THORNELY moved for the appointment and
nomination of a Select Committee on public petitions:—
Mr..Thornely; Sir Robert Harry Inglis, Earl of Arun-
del and Surrey, Lord Courtenay, Viscount Duncan, Cap•
tain Jones, Mr. Cowper, Mr. Pusey, Mr. Edward Buller,
Mr. Buckley, Mr. William Hamilton, Mr. Owen Stan-
ley, Mr. Cripps, and Mr. Villiers Stuart.—Agreed to.
Mr. EWART postponed his motion regarding Com-
mittees on private Bills.
On the motion that the answer of her most gracious
Majesty, to the address of the House of Commons,
be read,

Mr. COBDEN wished to call the attention of the
Right Hon. Gentleman to the absence, in the royal
speech, of any reference to the state of the agricultural
districts. A member of the Government had, indeed,
attempted to give an explanation, by saying that the
agricultural districts were not in such a state of
prosperity as to demand any particular refe-
rence. If this was the reason, it was a departure
from precedent, for hitherto extraordinary depression
eithr in manufactures or agriculture, was the cause of
especial observation. Last year, when a Committee was
moved for to inquire into the state of the agricultural
districts, one of the grounds for refusing it was, that
wheat was 565. a quarter ; now wheat was only 455. a
quarter. And he would ask the lion. Gentlemen oppo-
site whether they felt thernsilves justified in holding
out such sanguine expectations to the farmers respecting
steadiness of price, inducing them to enter into bargains
for land on the supposition that farmers had the power
of fixing the price of land. Lord Beaumont, at a great
agricultural meeting, had stated that Parliament would
ensure farmers 565. for their corn. Had events justified
that declaration? lion. Gentlemen opposite slid farmers
were suffering from want of sufficient protection, but he
(Mr. Cobden) thought they were suffering from protec-
tion altogether. The Hon. Members opposite repre-
sented a powerful interest, and if they really thought
the burdens on land so onerous, lie thought they could
not do better than join with him in calling for a Select
Committee of the House to inquire into them. lie was
not without hopes that this would be acceded to ; and it'
lion. Members who profLssed to be such warm friends of
the agriculturist did join with Hon. Members on that
side of the House, they w ,ul,l coerce the Government
to grant the Committee. Ho mentioned this subject to
the Hon. Member for Sonicrst tshire (Mr. Miles), who re-
ceived him with all the court( sy possible, and thought that
Hon. Member seemed willing to accede to the proposi-
tion. All that he (Mr. Cobden) asked was full, fair,
and impartial inquiry. lie had waited patiently to see
if any Hon. Member would bring forward this motion,
but nobody doing so, he thought it his duty again to
bring the subject under the consideration of the House.
Mr. MILES thanked the Hon. Member for the manner
in w hich he had spoken of him ; but he should recol-
lect that he was only an individual Member, and could
not answer for the whole agricultural body. If the agri-
cultural distress existed which the lion. Member de-
scribed, he might ask the Govtrnment to accede to the
Committee. Surely the observations of a Noble Lord
after dinner—(Laughter)—could form no basis for the
agricultural interests forming such sanguine expctations
respecting the price of corn. The Right lion. Gentle-
man at the head of the Government had spoken distinctly
enough on the matter, and nothing he said could be con-
strued into a guarantee to the farmer for the price of
corn. The Right Hon. Gentleman had distinctly stated
that he could not prevent fluctuation of prices. lie did
not think the farmers were much inclined to trouble the
House with a recital of their grievances. He was sorry
to say that, generally speaking. the farmers did not trust
much to the House of Commons for an alleviation of
their condit;on. The Hon. Member must take his own
course on the subject. There were Members both able
and willing, on that side of the House, to state their
opinions upon the question ; but he (Mr. Miles) would
vote neither one way or the other.
Mr. M. GIBSON, whe spoke in such a low tone of
voice, that he was almost inaudible in the gallery, was
understood to say that it seemed a principle with that
House, for many sessions past, to refuse all inquiry into
the subject of agricultural distress. .The facts of that
distress were before them all. They had a corn-law,
and almost invariably, though varying in degree, desti-
tution and distress accompanied it. The Noble Lord,
the Member for the city of London, had well said the
other evening that protection was the bane of agriculture,
for, with the corn-law, as he had said, they had distress,
and with distress they had always been inclined to asso-
ciate the existence of a committee. They had the corr.-
law, they had the distress, why then refuse the Com-
mittee ? They had ascribed this distress to the change
in the measure of protection effected in 1842; yet they
decline to ascertain the working of that protection,
through an inquiry of the House. They promised, too,
in their speeches at the Freemasons' Hall, and in other
places, to defend the farmer from any other change in
those laws. He should, therefore, wish to ask the Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's GoVern-
ment, and he did it with all respect, whether he had given
any assurance that no further reduction should be made?
—(Laughter.) Ile asked him if he had communicated
to any individual that he would not meddle with the ex-
isting corn-law, for the impression seemed to be, that he
had done so, but if not, he preyed the Right Honourable
Baronet to disabuse the public mind of the impression
that he had given this solemn assurance, because, if he
had not given any such, he (Mr. Gibson) would feel him-
self justified in contradicting the rurnoer.—(Laughter.)
Mr..BANKES thought that it would have been but
right that some allusion should have been made in her
Majesty's speech to the distress which was but too well
known to exist in the agricultural districts. He agreed
so far with the Hon. Member for Stockport, so far,
although he did not agree with him in another of his
topics,—that of joining some of these on that (the Con-
servatiie) sisfe of the House, in persevering in his deter-
mination to move for an inquiry int ) this distress at
some future period. He, for one, would not support
that motion, because, with reference to the
nature and causes of the distress, he was convinced
that it resulted altogether from, the changes made in the
protective duties, whether permanent or otherwise,a ad
he would not hesitate to say that those changes had pro-
so prevalent.
duced the very distress which was
knot
,lastht espistiemei:bradfirre fre,rorneddot:
The lion. MfetmkbeeNr
Noble Lord,
ih!odrd
the speech o
the other night, when he said that protection was the
bane of agriculture •
It remained to be seen whether
e
that
Noble Lord had changed his opinion since the time
had left office, or whether his proposition for a fixed
duty would not be considered a protection to agricul-
ture. The Hon. Member for Wolverhampton, who
spoke the other evening of the prosperity of the manu-
facturing interest, stated that their prosperity had OMR-
of the manufacturers was occasioned by the
sioned the distress of the agriculturists. Then, if the
distressprosperity
f the agricultural districts, why should Hon.
Members on the other aide seek to increase that distress
and aggravate that misery?—(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Member for Montrose observed, with reference to what
was alluded to in her Majesty's speech, that with re-
gard to some modification of the prohibitions which
Russia placed upon our manufactures, some step should
be first taken by us to induce some relaxation. He (Mr.
Bankes) thought the step already taken was a very good
stride in favour of the manufacturers, and he hoped that
the agriculturists would now have something better than
mere pity to relieve the distresses that prevailed
in the country.—(Hear.) During the year that sac-
ceeded the change in the protective duties, there was
a pretty fair average in the English crops, but after-
wards succeeded a great deficiency in the barley, oats,
and grass crops, and subsequently the alteration in the
protective duties debarred the hope that the prices
realised for wheat would make up for the loss sustained
in the remaining crops, and in that instance, therefore,
the change in the law caused great distress among the
agriculturists. It was contrary to all fact to say that the
alteration alluded to had not caused great misery, and he
was quite satisfied of the causes which led to it, without
the trouble of instituting any further inquiry.
landlords, that
Mr. BRIGHT said there was something exceedingly
hollow in the profession made by the
timelan existing
in
they commiserated the distress at that
distress, but did not the
House was the cause of th
the country. The cultivators if*
that
tonsist of landed proprie tore,
great majority of the House atsoil said that the
themselves, he asked, create
those duties, did not they',
in e onsequence of the change irt
and if misery;
that change existedT hecQuld only benefit the farmer in one