The Sun.
London, England, 1810-03-29 00:00:00

;.-4VIPEAUAT., POTAA. NI i._ NT.

• .
ROUSE OF PEERS, •
! •i, , WEDNESDAY, MARCH gs.
CHANCELLOR gave. notice, that to.
tiloiravv: or next• day he should propo to
their Lordships reiolution on the
aainst

The SOlicitor-Qeneral of Scotlitid-andUr.Brough-
.
Brough-
am were heard 'on the -Appeal Bill • against- Ram=
say, and the further hearing was: posti:oned. to Fri-
day next. - • ..

•
The several Bills .on the . table were forwarded,
.soine Pipers were presented from the India
-klouie.-Adjourned.

'HOUSE OF 'COMMONS,

: WEDNRspAY, MARCH 28.
The 'Chancery Examiners' Bill was read a second
time, and Ordered-to be committed.
PORTSMOUTH WATER-WORKS.
On the moving of the second reading Of the
Portsmouth Water-works Bill,

Admiral. MARE HAM opposed it,. as giving the
Company so. ineorpOrated a power;which they ought
not possess,•as it would be found extremely oppres!.
sive on those residing in their neighbourhood. He
did not: say any clauses were introdoted in the new
Bi:1 for which those by whom it Wa4 drawn up were.
not btirne: ow by the ol.d ones but he contended,
that the old' on: contained clauses which were so
oppresqiveand injurious, that it ought to be . epeal-
ed. He'conoluded with moving, As an amendment,
that. the secund,reacling should be postponed 411 that
day six months.

- .
Mr. H. SUMNER contended the parties.concerned
were entitled to the protection of Parliamrati as they
asked no new powers,, but inerelyiccurity for the '
dzerc6e of those already. possessed under, a former
AO. The Hanourable 'Gentleman replied at length
to the arguments of Ole last speaker, and defended
the general principle of the Bill, and the, con-
dud of the parties intefested in it. ..He could.
sae no pretext for opposing its going into a-Com-
mittee.

Mr. P.. MOORE wished it to gO into a Committee,
and pledged himself, if the inconveniences antici-
cipated by the Honourable Admiral were experienc-
ed, to endeavour to 'remove every impediment corn-
plained.of._.

Admiral, MA KHAM appealed' to the House if the
inconveniences he had anticipated might not be rea-
sonably apprehended. A Petition was on the table of
the I-lonic &Om his constituents. on .the subj.la, r he
InUst therefore persist ill ilia opposition.
Mr. LAsc.oLkos q)oke in favour of the Bill.
A division was about to take place when the
amendment has withdrawn, the Bill,read a second
time, .and a COthrnittee appointed.
On the I bird *reading of the Sydenham Inclosure
Bill) Mr. MAattYATTlnoved, that it should be read
on that, day six months.

Mr. E.KNATGIIBULL supported the Bill, which
he Contended .alas. no job.
Mr. Cll4wk,,ppposed the Bill; and .loped it
would 1.):j.5.v,it14.1w-n . .
Mr. INI...MONT4:quE censured the opposition given
to'the
. _
After gitAk kyprds from ..Mr, BARING and Lord
COCHRANE,I,2 division took place. We, Could not
learn the numbers, but we understood the Bill.was
carried by a majority of two.
•
A Mess4le from the Lords required the attend-
adce of th 9 Lord Advocate of Scotland on a 'Com-
rnitteefor ,considering the propriety of dontinuing
the prollibii iou of Distillation of Grain.

A Petition was presented from certain Artificers;
aC., employ,ec its his Majesty's. Dock-yards, praying
for an increase. of wages.—Ordered to lie on the
table.

The-100014pr Drawback Bill was read a third '
tine airoNstsegthDP: p MOTION RESPECTING SIR
FRANCIS BURDETT.
`Mr;- Sna tn.iu,k,moved the Order of the Day-for
resuming tilt • Adjourned Debate, which being read,
hestatedoh; it it was not his wish and he did not
think it could be the wish of any Hon. Gent.iti that
House, to ill terpose any unnecessary interruption to
the grand tcLtiestiOn as
.to the propriety of sending the
late expeditition to the'Scheldt; but' if ever there was
a question aft snperioi; importance, it was ,that
which was then before the Houk. Important,
however, as it was,. he - knew of no reason for so
iminediately diseUssing.it ;. he -.was • not aware ihat
there existed luny pressing emergency to "pithy. the>
putting of it or ward in preference-to the Other, and
he'thouglit tterewas no reason for corning. to an
Ihasry decisiou. The Paper laid hefore the Flotrsa
tam tOdeii.Y the right of that House'rtrimpris-tin
the'sUhie6t, aat.l. it contained- some strong passages
which lie o :u;d not but say he 'wished the Hon.
Ilarpnet bad. not put into it. That which was called
the At-gift:nen t'7'purported to be merely what had
been uttereitHil-, that House. It the " Arg9ment"
contained t tost I?)..lt,:buC. what had been before stated
in that FL use, then ;hey- were placed in a new. si-
tuation, ';A: ...use it was mit to be supposed that if
the matt,it of that Argument w-as'such as to violate
the ptivilekes ut that House,. the SNaker, aaing
with that propriety which uniformly oaraeteriscd
his rand ‘a, would have sotfefed it to ty: so uttered
without interruption. Time he thought ought to
be wven, that the.subjttrinight have proper consi-
deratiOn, and that the merits of the case might be
fairy argued. There wai no ernergenCy that could
justify then hi prematurely coining to a decibien:
At the lizginuinig cik every Session_of Parliament, a
Com:oittee o; • Privileges was appointeo <I sit every
Monday, Wedttesday,,ancl Friday, in the afternoon,'
in which every Aletpuer whoattended it was to hsys
a voice, and to which all subjeOs touching their prig..
vileges -were to be referred.. They were to
their opinions on the arne; reporting their prop'

r

„ .
cress I; rim time to time to the HouSee ,To
Corren'etee'he thought the sithjea might liave been
retierfd. He did not ask whether Or ildt; 'this
Ind been the pratlice of the House. rot' :Monte time
past, nothing could fairly, be argued +brie' that.
discussion of a qttes,ion important as that
which then occupied the attention of the House
ought not to be unnecessarily interrupted, and
the Member bringing forward such a motion
es that which was. then before. the House ought.
to assiere some very substantial-reason 'for bring-
ing it forward at
..such a juneiuree ought 'to ,shew
that some great mischief was likely to arise from its
not being; itritnediately disetissed. When such a
complaint was made, it should be referred to the
Committee of. Privileges. It Was nothing. to -tell
him this was not the usual praelice ofetilialHouse
ou'such occasions. He found an order teithateeffea,
and that waesuffecient to bear him out in tiliat he
had edvariced. There was an instance of -this, mode
being adopted, as would be seen from :their' pro-
ceedings in 1779.' 'The person then complained of
was not, it was trnee as in the present instance, a
Member, but that
.veiy circumstance --rendered his
argument the stronger, and established more firmly
- the propriety of referring the complaint thee before
them to a Committee of Privileges. In 1779 a.
person being accused of having written a pamphlet,
containing libelions matter, and gross misrepresenta-
tions of what passed in that House, the subjeCt
was referred to the Committee of Privileges, who
were instructed from time to time
.to report their
opinion on the same. The light Hon. Gentle-
m in concluded by. Ina, iug, that the alleged breach
of privileges should be referred to the
.Committee
of Privileges.
The Sreexia explained the nature of the Stand-
ing-Order, and stated' it to be the praelice of the
Heu-e, when any thing was to be reterred to the
Committee of Privileges, to Older that Conimittee to
sit on .a certain day. The motion of the Right
Hon. Gentleman was irregular', a motion -being
ahead)? -before the House.. He might, however,
opose -am amendment, which e byleaving out the
worde expressing an opinion on the. paper before
them, and inserting those of his motion, would be
similar in effea.
Mr. SFIERIDAI4, from the nature of the Standing
Order 'in question, was not aware of any hnpro-
priety in making such a motion, hOwever, had-erete
objeetion to pursue the course pointed out by the
Speaker. •
Attcr some further conversation as to form, &c:
the amendment suggested ,by the Speaker and
adopted by Mr. Sheridan was about to; be when,
while the Right Hon. Geutteman'WW-diaating the
wordseif it—
Mr. Aneer woke to. order. He objet' ed to the.
amendment, and instanced The conduct of the liouse
in 1701, when it went into a Committee of the
whrsle House on the matter of a-letter written by
Mr. Culpepper. He thought it would be an awk-
ward-way to tike out that part of the motion re-
lating to the nature of the Paper, and that his Right
Hen: Friend had 'best withdraw his amendment,
as another Hon. Friend of his intended to-mOve-an
adjeurnmene of the subject for such 'a period, that
the Committee of the Privileges might sit before its.
expiration. He had reasons for wishing this line
of conduct pursued, which, should a debate arise
on the subject lie would give to the House.
• TheSeemein thought it incumbent on him to
state the question to the House. He, eceordingly,
read the original -question. ,
BitANii • was or opinion, that if the Hon.
Member , who brought, forward the motion Alai.'
been aware of the interruption it had giveelto the
important question before the House,elte would not
have caused' such a citie4tion. to be.egiteted at such
a time, as no immediate danger cOuld-be apprehend-
ed frOm the
_motion tieing deferred.... while real dan-
gers arose from the attention of the being
Called off from that .sbbjea which had/leeipg pre-
viously efierossed: Every question T-respecting the
rights, the privileges, and the security q f the sub-
jeel, he thought of more importance than '2O failures
at Walchetene—than twenty times the' disgrace so
incurred. The consideration of so-great a point is
how far the poWer of that House could lieexerted,
every one must admit to be of great importance, as
to whether that question should or should not be im-
mediately brought before the House, a difference
of opinion might exist. He did not itetend enter-
,ing on the great question where the limits of their
'privileges were to be placed or toe eletiii a how far
-they should extend. He would net take upon
himself to say' how far the paPerleequeetien was a
libel. He must say that to someof,eheperte point-
ed out by the Hon. Member he copld,ateech no po-
Sitive censure, but they appeared to hie) to involve
questions of great ddubte on which the ought not
rashly to decide. He did not hesitate, to say, that
from: aH the knowledge and infutnit tion he had
gained on the subject, there Was one eart of that
paler (the leSt pact) which, raider evevy clefittitien,
Must he thought appeer to be, a
,bre.,l4 of their
pri-
VileW:se Ile should, therefore, under eeertain modi-
fications, be ready to vote with the Hole. Gentleman
on that subjeCt. He had been all the the morning
' reading the works of that celebrated. lawyer Har-
grave, in order to make himself ful!iy acquainted
with the, subject, but he wished, for tithe to consult.
all the authorities proper to be, consulted on such a
rpiestion. Lord Chief Justice Hale hod said, that
no Vase'should be agitated in thaelloust; which was
remediable at law. Was not that: on 'Which they
had taken upoe themselves to deciele,te4necliable at
law? Nay, had not such a remedy b4:eepSObght.in a
similar instance He would pot elisseet ',f.te 1-louse
'sit h an affectation of learning which ht did not
possess, bueit wee his, opinion that one yielation of
their privileges was chargeable to the I-ion. Bart.
and that die other passages of .his I.:tter ouelit to bp
deliberately coneidere& before they came to a deci-
sion on the subjea. One greet qeestion it ;involved
was; how feet' Member of that klonee.bad a right
to report to his Constituents wh4 he had uttered
within those walls. Many of the points contained,
in that Paper had been, expressed, nay, had even.
been enlarged upon, and supportedley other Mem-
bers,. If he had a right.to givpelie I,4s,ioristituents
what he had stated there, and laicll44aywo: to be good
constitutional doeleiee, then in there, Rmencement
.of his letter he had not.gone too,7far- in the following.
• earaeraph
Critic men—The House of Commons having passed a
, •,. which amounts to a declaration, that an Order of theirs
!,, more weight thari 1114,11 a Charti and the laws of.
I think it in) duty to lay my sentiments thereon
.;:.y COnstituents, whose chara‘icr as freemen, and

even whose personal ssfeiy depcnl it a Brest degree upon tire
decision of this question- a question of bo less intp,irtanc:e
than this, whether our liberty be still to be secured t,y the
laws of our fOrdathers, or be to lay at the'ahsolute mercy of;
a part of our fellow iutijeas; collected together by means
which it is not necessary, for me to describe r'
If. he bad a right to convey to his constituents all
he had stated in that House, in thus adverting to
what he had openly complained of, and what bad
been admitted on the other side' of the House, and
derended-on the -ground of its universality,' it. was
abstinence- arid moderation- in the Hen. Biroilet
say, no more: ; to refrain fiom sating in whit man-
ner the Members•of that House were colleted'
to-
gether,that what he had so often
__openly attacked,
in that House, when thus moderately urged, sheuld,
be regarded as a violation of their privileges, was to
him a matter of surprize. He would not pi through
the whole of 'the passages voluted out by the Hon.
Member, but he would say that there Were no
points in them which had not been expressed in a
stronger 'manner before m Wilt', these walls, except
the last, where he :speaks of their high-blown.
notions of power' " &c. Whether or not he, as .a
Member of that House; had a right to publish to
his constituents what he had stated in that Hoti.e,
was a question which he was not prepared to decide
upon. The only view he :took 'of the subjea was,
that they had a right to desire time to make the pro=
per inquiries; that they might come to a proper,
calm, and dignified decision. Having thus briefly
stated the grounds on which•he iwended mat=ing ass
'adjournment of the debate for a given time, he
would ask the ' Hon, Gentleman opposite. to giant
time. If he persisted io opposing this, t ',ere
would .not be a man Who Would not be of opinion
(and he for one had -no hesitation -in stating that
• such would be- his. belief) that he had caught .at
this 'subjea, and' was glad of; the opportunity
of giving such an interruption to the grand
question, in the hope of dividing the atten-
tion of an inquiring House and an indignant-coun.
try.
,When the Right Hon.. Gentleman reconsider-
ed his condu&, be doubted not but he' was sorra,
he had come forward ; he' therefore hoped he
would' give no farther opposition, sat iStied as lie was
that if he persevered he would have reason to
regret pressing his motion. The Hon. Gentleman
concluded; Moving-that the' debate be adjotirned till
to-morrow (Thursday) se'nnight. •
Mr. LeTnertinot could not agree to the adjourn-
ment. Precipitancy' was not his wish ' • but hav-.
ing placed himself 'in the hands of the Hotise, he
could not now recede or retrad. Besides be could
not consent, because the How. GentleMau-Almself
had supplied him with arguments for his perieve-,
ranee-now which did not occur before ihe himself
had just stated, that the present question, which in-
volved:the constitutional rights and privilegeS of the'
Housecwas of more importance than twenty failing
expeditions. Therefore he. had a right -now to think
that it ought to have precedence of any. other sub-
jett, and consequently heshould not accede to any
kind of delay. He should not follow the Hon. Gen-
tleman throughout the whole. of Ina• remarks, bUt
content hirn,elf with denying. the accesation made
by the Hen. Gentleman that he had lent himself, to
any matior set of men—no ;he solemnly declar-
ed he bad not lent himself to any man, or set
of men, or to any party. If be. had, lent him,
self •lie should regret it to the last hour of his
life. He was not controuled by any man in thiS
question ; the subject originated with himself, and
from himself alone.
Mr. CURWEN was of opinion that this was a most
important moment; he asked the Hon.. Gentle-
man if he was not aware of the fatal consequences of
precipitancy: As to the rights of the House, he ac-
knowledged their pre-eminence ; but he tat .it to
the.Hoti. Gentleman, 'Willis did not arise !rom-personal feeling, if it could not be compared to the
drowning man, ready to catch at every straw. fur
,safety ? If ihe Paper in question passed over unno-
ticed by the House for t oor three days,- it would
have sunk for ever into oblivion. Never did a qties-
lion require More temper or more consideration than
the present, and he conjured the Hon-IGentle-
Man to pau,e, and give some opportunity for farther
investigation. He thought the Hon: Baronet: 'in
some measure reprehensible, .and lie ;trusted_ the
House would evince its determination to decide *es_
passionately.ln the case of Wilkes,'the Journals
Were disgraced, but the occurrence was fortunately
eXpunged ; he hoped that they might never again
be polluted by such records. Let every opinion be
formed without interest ; for his part- he. trusted. he
should never feel its effeds, and that vote would
be "devoid .of every feeling of that vture,
Mr. Ow.at hoped that the House-would punish
the offence which had beep- committed against its
dignity; he was -astonished at the amendment, and
the doarines contained in it, but- he was surprised
that . the .HOn. Gentleman, 'whose . constitutional
knowledge Was so great, should intimate'e doubt: of
its emergency. The question now was, Whether
the Hobe of CominOns should maintain its dignity,
as art independent legislative body,.or sutler itself to
be beat-down, and tamely view princ;ples the most
-pernicious -instilled into, the'minds of the people.—
Thereasons adduced were extraordruary ; could it.
be supposed that a consideration which Would oceu.
py but a few hours could put from the recollealen
of the Ho:lSe the, whole mass of evidence which, had
been collecting for months ? Is it necessary to go in,
to' a Committee to decide whether a do trine which
tends to biass the minds of- the peopieshould be
suppreAed ? Shall arguments be suffered to goforth
froM the--House of Commons which dared not be
uttered here ? The .Honourable Gentleman con-
cluded by referring to another passage which he
considered as grossly libellous, , namely, " the
CorUthotis itav .assented the sword of prerogative,
and lord it.equally over King and People,"' Sze. "On
these grounds, the House should diseharge iisdutv,
and on those he was induced to support the original
monion.

Mr. WHITBREAD observed, that he never rose. to
speak on a question which he considered of'greater.
importance. It was. one in, which
Gentleman opposite was mainly concerned, as it was,
but an attempt to defer the inquiry into his miscon-
dna. When, said he, the Right Hon. Spencer Per-
ceval and Lord Castlereagh were charged. with a
breach of privilege, the Right Honourable Gentle,
men, on being called upon for a justification of Caeir
condud, were allowed five days,for preparation af-
ter t he:charge had been agitated; and to the case tif
the charge made against Lord Castlereagh, for at-
tempting to barter seats in that House, an amend-
ment was made by the Secretary of State, for

, .
ins his Lordship a 'inn-icier-it tittle to prepeee hie
defence. Looking at this fu&, and coupling it
Iwith the Acts of 1779, he would ask to whom were
I to he attributed the; attempts to degtade the "Reese
tof Commons. It would also be recolithed; that
at time' la,:gming of the present Administration,
the House was threatened. with a dissolution, if they
dui not adopt certain measures proposed to them by
the present- Ministers, and a dissolution shortiy after
took place. He had not bade time to inquire into
the nature of the present que,tiou ; since half-past
two this indr-ning, the time of aajournment, he was
occupied in considering the- many arguments, and
fellowing through an imaginary compete') the Hen.
General who Lest night voted for the cotiduil ot-Mi-
tlistqs. He aberefore had nut time to give the ar-
gument an attenlive perusal. In several. points he
was surprised, fir he expeeted those who svereelie
gaged in that famous eXpeditiOn.Would have called en'
mountains to cover -them, and seas to overv. helm
them, to shield [hens from time scrutiny of the people.
He only asked for that opportunity Which be rea-
queated last night, when the debate was postponed.
to that day. He had not time since: to read "the
papers, much less had he time to weigh, with due
dAberation their contents. Was -he then to -rest
upon the quotations of Members however honour-
able, or was he to divide upon a subject of which
he had nor time to look at the -text, or study the
Context ? Tire I-ion. Gentleman who had laid the
charge, did not seem to have the least objection to'
delay the: consaleration of the subject for four and
twenty hours. Why -not, then, adiourri the discus-
sion fur a longer period. The Hoiroprable
then had said that he did not lend himself •to the.
party one that siee of the HouSe. If he did- not
lend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had
taken advantage of his facility. It was a sort of
God-send, and fully exemplified the observations
• *hid' had been made, of the catching straws like-
- a drowning man. Many things; however, - happen-
ed between the cup and the lip,—a great many,
thinga occurred between the halter and the gallows.
" The Hon. Gentlemen need not .be alarmed," said
Mr. 'Whitbread, " I do not mean to say they.
will be beheaded, nor do I mean to apply the simile,
Of the halter to them.- I simply meant -to insinuate
that events often happen even to save the thief from
the gallows, or to prevent the completion of an ad
When most certain.--This was verified by an oce
,currence Which'toole place during the retreat of the
army in Spain, when a soldier, for some heinous
:offence, was tried, and Coedemned to be shot ; but
at the momentithe sentence was about to be carried
into eftea, the enernyarrived, rescued turn from his
perilous situation, gave him a horse, amid he escaped."
The Honourable Gentleman who spoke on the pree
ceding esening on this topic, m talking of. the.:
House of Commons being lowered in the estima-
tion of the people. of• England, and expressing
his leers that delay . wbuld probably endanger the
safety of the Constitution, reminded him, he was
going to say, of the late Mr. Yorke, now most
'happily promided for. This was one of the-lega-
cies left the 'House by the Teller of the Exche-
quer; from whom the House was so properly. re-
lieved, and who, was now made.a man of come-.
quence, not by right, for that would be useless, but
by favour. An individual had been Weight." to -the
Bar of the House forean offence in itself slight, who
there apologised with the most unfeignedcoutrition,
yet notwithstanding was- sent. to Newgete; he
thought that he ought to have been d scharge.d : now,
step. by step, •he has become quite a great man, eed
of importance in the eyes of the world. -One thing
he begged leave to advert to; the Hon. Member bad
mentioned, that em hen he reae the argument and
letter his hair stood an end. He hoped. the Hen
Member would on- similar occasions endeavour to
Coiled 'himself. He recollected that during a
debate -On double-barrelled • guns he sat dumb
the whole time; but he hoped the Honourable
Member, when his „flesh had ceased to ere-4N
Would exert his philosophy. He asked the -bench
of Lawyers which sat sat before him, whether it
was consistent with the laws of evidence lit Courts
of Law, that a 'decision be made without giving'
the: Court time to weigh the ,faCts of.--the
For his own part,
.the Hon. Mertaberoweee.teue al
though he had, as lie thought, on several trying oc-
casions manifested his political independence, yet
he did not- feel bold enough, he did not possess sut....
ficient political courage, to come to a resolution on
a question of that importance,. without further cone
aideration. He had -heard a speech of .the gene
Earonet on that question, and he would .not say
that it had made no impression on him, for fivers-
hie knOWIS talents .it was impossible,. but it -bad.
not convinced- him. . He had found nothing repre-
hensible in that' speech, yet he . had found fault
with the Honourable Baronet, met for the senti-
tnents contained in his speech, but for having use-. -
lessly thrown them away .without deducing from
them, any specific proposition ; • he had also found
faulat with him for publishing that speech in like
menner, without advancing one step towards the
°hie& he had in view. But whets the House
was Called upon to pronounce, on a charge of guilt,
o•Pallalhiag more than eXpiessions was necessary,
and they could not conscientioesly proceed with-
out a thorough conviction, to obtain which a suffi-
cient time was necess try. In this case be would
naturally judge of others by himself ; he could not
attend to two things at a time, and although he had
no professional duties to attend, it was not till four
o'clock this day. that. he could find time to read the.
letter which- had given rise to so many animadver-
sions ; anti ehen certainly not with sufficient attention
to, be able to judge how far they were well founded.
Seeing himself, however, pressed by Gentlemen on
the other side, he stuck. to-the old tack ;he had can. -
vested as many of his old friends as he could, men
with whom he had gone through many a poli-
tical campaign,' and in this he had followed the
example of an Honourable and Gallaut General
(Crawford)', who had 'thought of an amendment
to lover the retreat of a friend. He had read the
• Letter to the. EleCtors of Westminster, and he had
seen nothing in it abet might not have been, with
propriety, addressed to them, or to any other body
of Englishmen. Sinde that, many things had
been' introduced in argument, Many interpretatitm
bad been given which had never occurred to him,;
and many Passagei had been seleated, which he ne-
ver had noticed before. These passages, indeed,
had ben read; but it was utterly impossible to form
an Opismion, without reading them, any more than ,
once, end attentively in the closet, without cornpars
.. •

, .
Me, theM with the whole texture (It the pracht6lion.
Tins reqi,sited.time; and time should be alloWed.---,
`Nothieg, the Hon. Gent: aVeried, wbuld ever make
hint pronouriCe Guilty or not Guilty, . till hiS Mind *.
Was CoMpletAy made up on the subjed ; and if rila
settateli;driVen topronounce, while in a :tate of 'am-
-, .‘
-pelise,klite would not hesitate to follow the di6lates
of eternal justice,. and of British equity, by voting for
the -acquittal; ,And•here the H-On-Aifent.-aprnieno-'
other :Members of 4hat House, wh6were, no.doubt,,
in the same situation,wlsose tnite-is were not an'l wouldi
not -be possibly, made up on the subject,..if a furtlie,s'
time was not PeeeSSAry to CMIIO to a conscientious
.vote. Alter all, what. possible detriment,' he would' * -
'ask, Could arise frem- the proposed delay; bait was .**
-not on any such gtotandsthat it-was resisted.iTito-.
fact was, that the,RiOst -Hon. Gentleman oppositi
to him had expected' that the itstrodndi.,n, et. thi4
:new subjeCt would create a diversien in his favour;
that-it !would operate: Ike a change Of scenery. and
intercepi• the Walcheren expedition front - public
view; In this, however, the Right Hon. Gentl&
tnate,Wotakttind himself most egregiously*lnistaketisc
the*publie were -a great deal too sensible•to be led
astray by such shallow artifices ;.and all' that he
could possibly obtain from this contrivance, was a
respite of twenty-four Could the House he.
sitate, when putting.ip the scale those petty expec-
tations of the Right Hon. Gentleman, with the on-
doubted claims Sir Francis. Burdett bad cps ihe :Oise
tice of the 'House lie bad a. right to expel they
would not,* Without due deliberatitin, 'pronounce
on a case which
.so materially affected the' coult;.
try...i_wbvitAl_W right, to taped .that_thoy should-
, not proceed rashly, in a, ca?ie involving some of tee
fundamental principles of the Constitution. On a,
former occasion, be had voted for the liberation -
of Mr. Gale Jones, not because. he :was cianvitieed
that the House had,no right in committli4
but because he deprecated all attempts to repress '
litical discussions. I.n faa ,he *did .not see any gr5,.;,:e
harm in ,the subjeet advertised as 1-.961) ; it might as
well: have been the--marriage of Napoleon, ur soma
other unmeaning novelty - but the subjed as it ecey
Stood, involved some of the prhoieze*s of ft:is .I.l(7llSef
1;01i.C1) formed an,
essential Trt•of.-the ot•
If they were proved lot to be foended7l;
Was co:-vinced the House would abdndon t'
out hesitation; that tae trusted the Hen.
'would not be so bold as to come to a d,casion era •
such a momentous subjeEt, with Out Alie most tnaturts
deliberation.
'Mr SIDNEY YORKE said—" The Teller of the
Exchequer has left_ to this•HouSe a legacy, a vale-
able legacy.; and it is as valuable to us, cowing, front
the Teller of the Exchequer, as if it Came from 3
-
brewer of bad porter.'.'
'These-words produced an immense -acjtatiOn in
House, with. cries:ot-
Chair !
, •
•Mr. WHITBREA,D.—` I cats °teem myself anecree
but one way by _the- expressionS of 'the' Honourahle-
Mettiber.who has just'spoken, and thilt is as a trailesr
man, by being held out as a brewer of bad po.tt-r.--"'
I have,only to hope, as the. Hon. Gentleman wl'l7
has conceived So, bad an opinion of me as a tr-ttics.
Man, and thinks. that I v
have so far deia...ed
the precepts and example of my father, that
would do me the honour to buy a cask of my' pox"' • -
ter; and I will sell him the best, that ad the voter,'
of the Teller of the ExChequer may drink
health."
,Mr. SPEAKER 7.—" The Hon. • Member is Us pa`'
sflsliion of the House, •to ,proceed on. the
unless some Member speaks to order.
taord Mti.-rot4 spike to oreer, and expressed ct
sii-e, of taking down the words of the.Hoo. Meniber-
" N0,.n0, no," pretty generally from all quarters.,.ei
, Mr. WIWISREAD.-I`. I wish, as I am-stirel*
~pe4eo pod hurrutur_on this subjeCl, sand the. H"'-
GenOeman , as. I: perceive by his countenance,
stored to. tranquility? the House_ w,Crul4,frot
,igny apology ; I. require none'on this occasion.
Mr. CaoKEtt complimented the 'Hon. Gentletno
on the manly manner in Which be received the s°7.,
'camp, which he thought to be unjustifiable; •til-00,41f
many of- the. abserVations which fell from him—ell
on the subjed of debite, he conceived 'rut he,, l;
pointed as_ the sarcasm which was just used.
depository 9f the, legislative p9wer was arre4ted
the execution of its rights. •The Hon.'Bitronet‘,?ii.
well aware/he dared not utter one sentence on 11
legs here of what he afterwards published as argl,,
rent. TheEpiescrit discussion is, *betties ire sh
in lis 10 giMllkthe right of exercising the priviles:o
Of otir'aneestari: He persisted-in saying ,SUCh cCte`
'the nature of the„question. • Could the Hon. 83r°14
doubt the:authorityof the Hpuse to commit s:rang e
ip
for contenrft, which he had ;ittenapCecttO Pr"°„r
language not Only inconclusive, but of a bad toste;l2o,
Would not yon, Sir, (addt-eSsing, himself ro
Speaker) who have ever filled that. Chair with
ly dignity, 'interpose your autharifyilsuch e:sdiris e
sions, which I shall tsol.v read, were uttered' .1)r .of
expressions- aiming, at and insulting the digttitY
this House and that, Chair ?"
er!'•
" Let this instrument—this :thing, ski. ge;itr4, enof
misted with the description above given of the
proper
a lawful WattsittlorilVe:s it not evidently appear
Ttiiif
tt
piixe of unseated paper, signed by the Speaker, by vo,ty.o-;
Untried sti,jett has been outlawed, bears nu feature at
lily ? I* if t
If such were, his expressions here, he repow
would bellpgkat.y. of that Chair to Have
Hon. BaronetlO.order.
:Is this libel so obscarer,zo•fl
'doubtf9l, as that it should be adjourned over'
argument.. the -lion. Baronet had left aside,
~launched at once-into a libel on the House:
mons.; alibel monstrous in itself,. and wade
-.: vituperated language •
- " inflated with their high blown fancied ideas-of M-43`
and tricked out in the trappings of Itnyalty."
What. can the Hon. Baronet "mean by this.
knew of no trappings but the trace on
and did he arraign this ?—t-lle should conchae.,
said, by reading another passage. sell
" one cannot with such impressions in ewes mine' ,y
entertaining a fear, that the Gentlemen of the 110"r,"rir
Commons may, in time, unless they revert to the great ,
ciples of the Constitution, be in danger of incurring,
tence of St. l'aul upon the 'insolent and tyrannift:"! 11
Priest, who commanded him to be struck for otild4T(lp°l
mputh in his own detenee.—'• shall smite lbc", Ott
whited wall , for airiest thou to judge Inc after the laws
cam mandestme to be smitten contrary to the law?"
Whit does the Hon: Baronet Mean by rereoltidle
"can it be explained ? If criticism could ton'
%leg
the Sting of a libel,: the adjournment of
4Ould not be Sufficient for the purpOse.
I • • -Sir S. Ft ONILLLY. observed, if ever_ a yloo' t
•
'rriaeded calmness and' _dignity it was the Prefal
was 'not a time to vindicate rights butt° P

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•
€OOTi table fOr Having COnsidered the
subletsof debate as Muth, CS possible, •it was his
opinion that if he were 'forced to Vote, ,it would be
fgainst the preient question. .the , Situation
,of the
country .should be considered, when 'there were
hteetings and disscussiont on altheit every opinion of
he Rouse It should not be proceeded on witk:
recipitancy, and without consideration. Mr. Yorke
fenlnd a new interpretatiOn of the' Bill of Bights, nor
fl‘Need was be surprised, since the Hon. Member
lr• Owen) was but new in that House,
_that
should ,be .ithritient to assert., its privileges.---
• 44 nature of a libel had not been duly considered
!oder its two
,heads, the matter and the man-
'et this, was , a grave and serions.argument,; on
gave -constitutional question, and. every,. particnlar, ,
were be attended to. He. did-neit-coliceive there
qZere offensive passages by any means in the paper ;
e language was..perhalis, too strong, but the House
0 ht
,rot: to, judge, on, mean terms. He -was far.
nna defending the .-paper,' but rose to 'express.
Ve doubts he had 'on' the subjeet. He asked
bne Lawyers who sat before him, ought the
li-
,er tY, of .a subject to be injured on inuenao alone ?.
the Court of Kings Bench'it was not possible
I.l° Pais judgment on sitch. a Toduditioia. He was
:l acquainted with the law: -:of that House,as
he el as with the general law of the land, yet
0,,, thought jydgment .should not be. passed with-
the- presence of the accused - Time
lea e-
be taken for consideration, that the
unse ?flight have the satisfaction to refleaing it,had
Qne every thing in'its poser. Can the Right Hon.
lientituan say it .tias .-been in the power- of the
%i 945 g in so sh4t
.for.c.al
? .c..
These considerations he thought were suffi- ,
thi-en;.sroond for voting to postpone the debate, 'till
eve
•q.014,e should !rave opportunity of ;earning
'l)artieular. •
r• • •
tr, "21'e
tihceive hoW any- one possessed of the- tense and
f9rrnation of 'his lion. and .Learned Friend could
alnht that the paper in question wai
tlistioaiY
jb„'bel-• Although not have seleated the.
,-,"age Hunted by his'Hiari. Vriend under
,the Gal-.
pas,sagY as the strongest in that
.production,, still. that .•
qe- was unquestionably a' libel on the House.,
ill`-'oininons, for the inference from the assertion
li at Mr. Yorke, in arguing from the Bill of Rights,
t:"' PonverieCt it into a Bill of Wrongs, by which
i,Mllent the' HOUse had been induced to a 9, Was
't,;ho House had done wrong, and violated the
11:!vileges of the people. All seemed to agree that
013 was . highly important question. So jne in-
tip ct might think that the iriqulry into the apnlica-
fn which his *Majesty's Ministers had. made of the
ilt-4,.„etsei.of the country at Waldieren Was of still
importance; but although he was willing,
aclipit that this inquiry was of great importance,
" did not believe that the House would feel it to be
ef,,
app„s,tich importance-as the investigation of a charge
Drust them, that they had been guilty of a -grois
:Ition of the-.
law of the land. Various Gentle-
en had Called on him, some in a friendly, and sonic
1444 hostile tone, not to- expc.se himself to the itn-
1, tltion of interpOsing the'present discussion to di-
nett the public attenti:,n from the Walcheren In-
Jii-,2"Y• For the purposes of declamation, or of cast-
-I),„'' °alum on Ministeri, such an insinuation might
• q-41- verY convenient ;, but it was impossible that any
,e could reasonably believe that the intervention of
;t'aY before the decision of the Inquiry was a mat-
„°f personal importance
An
- the Members of
4-a!iflajesty's Government. An Hon.Gentlerpan had
tillig,thathe (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) cal-
brlated upon some such circumstance in the Chapter
to Accidents as that which happened to the condeMn-
s°l.dier in the retreat ; and that with a halter about
'S. neck be lOoked around for some such fortunate
,
rent as the present discussion to avert his impending
k..
• In this-assertion lie could not suppose that The
Gent.was serious. Vor his.part he 'was is Mix-I-
-o" for. result of the Inquiry into the Expedition
'si,The Scheldt as any man.' Anticipating that result
tol,le-tlid with the most perfeCteonfidence, he looked
the means of doing awaythose false inipres-
ic4s which had prevailed with respott to a measure,
\t',e Wisdom., and. policy of which he was peruaded
its;-1,1,1 appear'. more evi'dently the MorE-the measure
P,.•" was examined. His Honourable and. Learned
d' 'end had ,very' .justly said in conside a ring libel,. a
, .
ri,'"ctiori ought to be made between the matter and
ner manner._ Now both-the matter:and-the Man-
it of the paper in question were as li6ellous as-
Iv as possible.to imagme.• lie allowed that any in-
allydual 'vas perfealy arliberty to canvas any act of
ti,l.hon-ty;-"but :he had no right to decry the de-'.
fr''an of the House
.of' Cominans, and to appeal'
ti-14,14Zrar. dtettibtriti.:.ll4, ::Constituents. ..The..
1174 tier of the Alocumtni was most offensive, and
•
:th respect to the matter, it .was neither more nor
tv4s,titan a call. by the Hon. Baronet. on the people
:r resist the authority of Parlianient. If he could
we-the proposition by a inure reference- to the
og the licto.l3aronet (without saying,any- thing
this argument by winch it was followed), he
lii.!,,,,4ld•thew a case ot . which it would become
tltc ITO-oq hot --TlieleffeTa
lion.,Barone.t bitgan
tc~otqUotation is given in Mr. Brand's Speech, in our.
-tm'coiutnirj.
After a few sentences the letter proceeded thus
tth!=
ch w. thirefure .no.the.tiine to resist fio6trine upon
, Mr. Jones has been sent to Nentite, as it is high time !!
tiebY ttre all pretensions fo those liberties which were acquit.
torefathers after so many struggles and so many
4eri6„,,,•
• tan.:l'!le§)aternontof the Hon. Baronet, therefore, be- 1,
by' an allegation that the House'ot Commons hady
4.1,,.?1' an Order of their own against MagniCharta.
IL 4 the laWs of the land ; that personal safety was.
. ;e:.reby endanger. ed, and that now was tlle'Ame,l ,O L','
ist the doarites- tipon- which- they-had`sent
tet'needs to Newgate. . But, perhaps; it might be con-
-4,.40, that by resistance was meant 'resistance iv.
Plment. What said the. succealing paraotapits
ve! Either the House ofC
tarommons is autheriseeto dispense -
ith the law of the land or as not:"
11-. A passage- in which it was clearly inferred, that in
tek- instance cOmplaineeof the laws_.of the land had -
en. so dispensed 'with. * -
4
fr.lf the Constitution be of so delicate a texture—so weak
or j-Ine —so fragile in substance, that it to'be only spoken
ternis Of admiration, and to be viewed merely as a niece.
4,,,.ltizious but unprofitable workmanship ; it Magna Charts:
141,41 the wholesome laws •of England be a dead letteri'ttt,:
.case the affirmative of the proposition may berritql. ,
its but if the Constitution lives, and isiappligrboil.
rt.!: ends ;. tiaincly the happiness.ef the communfq,
titegt.seeurity of The lite, Aibeity, and.prolierty ct• e:-!0
ii.l" Cr,,and all the members of the sociery 4; thee rhea,-
-atiVe of -the proposition can never tie • admitted cithen

must we be freenien, for we Ned no better security;- no
More powerful protedion for our rights and liberties; than
the laivs and Constitution. We'seek tor, and we need seek
.fpfpothibg new; we ask fin no more than what our forefa-
'the'rs - insisted upon as their own : we ask for no more
than: what they bequeathed unto -.us; 'We ask for no
i wee „t.lian what they in the Testament which some of
them had sealed; and which the rest of-them were ready
with. their blood, expressly-. declared to be
'-=:tbe.::3biilhright of the people of England ; namely, the
iliaviwrof England. To these Laws, we . have a right to
'look with confidence for security • to these. laws the inch-
Nidual.:now imprisoned has throughi me• applied bar redress,
in vain. Those who have imprisoned, him have refused to
listen tiiiny voice, weakly expressing the strong principles of
the law, the undeniable claims of this Englishman's ' birth.
'right:' Your voice rhay come with more time; may coin-
,.mandgr,iter-respect.sand I am not without hope.that it may.
prove irresistible, if it proclaim to this House of Commons
in this same tone as the tongues ()four ancestors proclaimed to
the Kings of old—' A'olatinnt legvt Anglia mulari e or in our
•nwitniore clear, and not less forcible language, < The Laws
. of England shall not
-be changed." -
. As far'as he had gone, was this the proper mode
of trdating such a sUbje6f? BUf what followed
tf.tirtie principles; fellow eititens, for which We arre nbw
opteajding, are the same principles for which the .people of-
t-. nitali4 had contended from the earliest ages; and their glo:
rionituteess in Which contests are now upon record in the
! great-Charters of our Rights and Liberties, and in divers other
subsequent statutes of scarcely less importance, t was this-
same great principle which was again attacked by Charles I.
I-. in the measure of ship-money, when again-the people of Eng- .. •i land; and an uncorrupted House of Commons' renewed the
contest; a contest Which ended in theimpris,nment, the trial;
the. condemnation; and the execution of that ill.advised King. -
'file
self-Same principle, it was that was so daringly violated
by his son, fames 1 1 - ,
And again, towards the conclusion of the same
paragraph,
" Volumes have been written by foreigners, as well as by
our own countrymen, in praise of that.part of our law,ethielt:;
in 3o admirable a manlier provides for our personal safety
against any attacks of men in power. This has indeed been'
in all ages the pride of our country; and it is the maintenance.
of this.principle which enabled us ro escape that bondage in
`i which all the Staresand Kingdoms in Europe, were enthrall.. • ed, by abandoning and yielding ft up; and we may be owned,
'that if,,sve now abandon it,the bright day of'L-ngland'sgtoiy
.1 will set in the night of her disgrace."
Could 'any thing be more distinai than the mode
,
of resistance here recommended -bY'
ronet.to the decision of .the •House of Commons ?-
.
Was it not evident that lie wished the. people of
'England to resist in the same manner as they did in
the instances WhiCh he hadluoted ? 'But to set this
matter in • a clearer light, the Hon. Baronet pro-
-leecled
" But I would fain believe that such is not to be our fate,
One forefathers made 'stern grim. v isaged Prerogative hide his •
head ; they broke in pieces his sharp and massy sword. •Anti
shall we, • their sons, be afraid to enter (the lists with uncle.
fined Privilege assuming the powers of Prerogative ?" •
Was it possible, after hearing these passages, that
any one could refuse assent to .his prOptisition, that
tho-Hon. -Baronet had called on his con4tituents td"',
resist the doctrine by which Mr.-Jones had been
committed by the House of Commons, as the only
mOde by which they could preserve their liberties ;
that he shewed Ahern how their forefathers had
fought for those liberties, and that he then asked
them- if they were now afraid-to enter the lists in a
similar contest ? In a succeeding paragraph the
i Hon. Baronet observed,

" That a power. such as this should exist in any country it
is lamentable to be obliged to believe ; but that it should be
suffered to exist, and that its existence should be openly and
1 even boastfully avowed in a Country whose chielglory has
been its free Constitution of Government, is something too
lIIVIISUOUS to be believed if the proof were not before your
i eyes."
The Hon. Baronet concluded by telling his Con-
.
stituents.
" The argument by which I have endeavoured to con_! vince the Gentlemen of the House of Cornmoris that their
acts in the case of Mr. Jones were illegal, I shall now lay
before you in a more full and connected way than it could
possibly be done by. the Parliamentary Reporters, and in doing
; this I shall do all that now remains- in my power towards
the correC{ion of this, as I deem it, most enormous. abuse of
power, and most dangerous of all encroachments upon the
rights and liberties of Engli.hinen."
•
' He put it to the House, whether any thing could
have been written to Englishmen more calculated to'
excite their resistance to the authnrity of Parliatnent,
and to bring the charaEiter of.that HouSe into dis-
respe& and contumely ? Could any thing hare been
written that bore more -completely the charaitier of
.Ittlibel on the rights and privilees 'of the House of
'Commons ? Could his Hon. and Lout-led Friend;
after his attention had been. thus direded to those
passages, have any doubts on the subjea ? If he
had, h.; (the Chancellor of the•Excheqber) was per-
waded that an adjournment of the discussion for a
week,. or fur any+mger peri.)4 "would not remove
them' With resped •to the objetlionable passages
in the " Argument;' they had so ireq7ently been
quoted in the course of the debate, that he would
not enter into them minutely. The HouSe were in
possession of passages in which the. Hon.-Baronet
'distinctly stated, that the proceOings of the House
of 'Commons were s)sLematically against the laws,
and in complete subversion of the Coustitution
of
the country. Some of .the Hon. Gentletnett who
had ,Spoken had no doubt that the paper Was a libel,
but • wished to know s.nuething- about
.the law ;
others did not dispute the law, • but wished to
know something about the libel. He was anxi--
ous- to satisfy both parties. As to the -fin% he
trusted, that what he had 'already stated was.suf-
ficient ;. and with respell • to the libel, if a public
refledion on the proceedings of that House was
'not a libel, he did not know what . was. Let tire
.House consider the following passage in the " Ar-
gument ;"

" They (the House of Commons) have become the pro:
prietorS, by Burgage •tenure, of the whole representation;
and in that capacity are,inliated with their high,blown fanci-
ful ideas of Majesty, and tricked out in the trappings of
Royalty, think privilege and protectidn beneath then-dignity,
assume the sword of. prerogative,, and "lord it etpially over
the King and the People."
His Honourable and Learned declared that
'he did not understand thiS, and thcre(bre that it
could not be libellotis. This much however 'was
perfealy intelligible, that it 'declared the House of
-.Commons had assumed a power which by the Con-
,Stitution it was not allowed to possess. The main
busines4 of the
," Argument" was to .prove that the
House had not a right to 'conitUit a stranger_ for a
Breaeh of Privilege; for the Honourable I.3,troaet,
admitted that they had a right to coturnit a Alember,
for such offence. " Now this. was a case of doubt,
on which. the Honourable Baronet hada right to
argue as 'fully as he chose in the Hou:;e; ,
be-
hoved him to take care iii what Man/it:The spoke.er
wrote on the subjeti. It .did not follow' that -that
which it was lawful to say'in the
.House, before
decision, it was lawful to say out of the. House,
after aidecisibn; 'and still less lawful was it to re-,
cotnmend a resistance to that decision. Supposing
that he considered the conduet:oi. the House• in the
case of.Mr..Gale'Jnnes as illegal, the Honourable.
„Baronet had a right to endeavour.,to induce the
}Luse lo rescind their proce4ilgs ; but when he

failed in that 'attempt, be had no right to call UpOn
the people to resist their authority. He would now
address himself to remove any doubts with reined to
the laW of the. case. The right of the .H ()use to
commit 'strangers could be traced as far back its the
reign of Queen Elizabeth,- in which Mr. -Hall and
• 'Mr. Trolope were so committed (on further consi-
.deratiOn, the Chancellor of the ExChequer obserf;.
ed, that Mr. Hall was a Member, not a stranger).:-
Selden had decidedly asserted. that privilege, Toe
reign of Charles I. -comprised an accumulated mass
of authorities to that pUrpose. In one particular in
stance, the-I<entish Petition, a Committee resolVed,,
that to deny the right of the House of-Commons
to commit strangers was a.gross' violation of tltei4,
rights and privileges. Between the years 1701 and
.171.4; there were 'no 'less than thirty instances of commitments. ;In the cases of Oliver sandi -‘
Ciosbie, the'Court,of Common Pleas.and the Court...;
of
,Exchequer both decreed that the House of Com-
mons had 'a rip,-htlo commit astranger for a breach -
Of privilege. There was also the authority .of the
Court of King's Bench for the existence °fan' ana-.
logous privilege in the House of Lords. Lord
Kenyon observed, on a motion of Habeas Corpus,--i
to bring up the'body of Mr. Flower, who had been
committed by ilte.House of Lords, ." that if ever:a -
time should come when faC-tious men would at tempt
to Overturn the Governnied, they would begin by
calummating the Courts of Justice and both Houses
of Parliament.",---!`• I solemnly call on the House,'.'
added the Right Honourable Gentleman,
." to con-
skier
Whether that time has not arrived."—Where
Would be- the- impartiality of the Howie; if .after
committing Mr. Jones for a breach: of.privdege,
they should treat a Member- who,. with a better
kdowledge of those privileges, bad violated them,
with more indulgenCe? If they adjourned:that on
which it.was impossible to have any doubt, he did
not conc,eiVe that they would support their 'dignity
or evince their impartiality and justice. The House
was called upon by 'an imperious duty. If they
hesitatectio‘pronounce that againsr the Honourable
Baronetwhich they' had not hesitated to pronounce
against a less distinguished offender, they tvould
sink low indeed in the public estimation. Let the
offenCes. of the two individuals be compared.
GtosSly' Libellous as the proceeding. of ,Mr.- ,Gale
Jones had been,• was trifling. and r conteMptible,
compared'-with that of the Honourable. Baronet. If
the House; from an apprehension of 'doing that
- which the 'HOnoUrable Baronet might perhaps wish,
and in 'which he might perhaps triumph, were to
abstain, frOni doing their duty, -they would. indeed
atford him cause of triumph, and would indeed de-'
serve to 'be triumphed over and trod upon. •In as-
serting- their own rights, they .were 'asserting the
rights of the people of England. The only way to
maintain their dignity, was to do their duty—to do
it temperately—but to do it firmly and impartially.
It appi,ared to him that the House could not hesi't ,
' tate in concurring in the. motion-sof his Hon. Friend,
and he was persuaded that they would not hesitate
in doing so. s

LordiFoiKsToki hoped 'the debte would .be ad-
journed, and that the House would not go to the
question hastily and prematurely.. His Honourable
and. Learned Friend had doubts on the subject;; were
those .rdoutitt not to 'be respeCted-? There were,
others' alsb who experienced considerable_dtftidulty.
Re briefly adverted to the precedents cited by the
night Hon. Gentleman who had just sat:down, and
contended that they were not in point: The Right
Hon. Gentleman had repeated an observation of
Lord Kenyon's on the danger to be apprehended
from calumniating the Houses of P.rliarnent. He.
really, did not expel to hear this from the Ilight kick
nourahle Gentleman, after what had passed .in the
two last,Sessions of Parliament. .1. he HOUSP.rnight
prevent the people from speaking, but they could
not prevent them from thinking; arid When the
people saw their. Ministers of State accused of vio-
lations of the Constitution, and of the privileges Of
Parliament, and then saw that .those individuals were
permitted by a majority of the House of Commons
to-escape with impunity, their thoughts might easily
be conceived.. The Right. Hon. Gentleman had laid
great stress upon the word " resist,". but if; he.
would-look at another part, of the letter he would
thetrelind the word " resist" and the word "legal"
coupled. together in such a manner as to render it_
evident to every impartial mind, that it was legal
resistance only that his Hon. Friend meant to re-
commend.

Mr: CROXER and Mr. CURWEN explained.
Mr. ADAM declared that no, man-. was more at-
tached -to the 'rights and privileges of that House
than himself, but he -thought the_ present question
ought to be decided only after full deliberation,
and he Was therefore of opinion that it ought to be
adjourned. 7 No such casehati occurred for twenty-
seven years, and the instance which then took place
(the case of Major Scott) by no means involved such.
`important consideratimis as the present and yet-af-
ter the first motion; the further: consideration of it
.had been deferred for a week. He really had not
had time to think on ihe subjea, ol- IO consult the
necessary law authorities, points in which thellight
.Hon. Gentleman enjoyed much greater facilities.—
ne Was anxious to have an opportunity of prepar-
ing himself to refute the assertions of •the Hon. Ba-
,rOnet,''and to prove- that the= privilege which the
House possessed of commitment, was adherent in
ttie law of the land: He thought he could under-
take to shew that the cases gulled •by the Hon. Ba-
ronct'we.re most of them' adverse rather then fa-
vourable to the Hon. Baronet's position. .On re-
turning frourthe House of Commons that tnOrning
at t liree o'clock he had proceeded to read on .the-sub-
je6l; and he found •that. Lord Chief Justice Grey,
and Lcrd Chief Juitice Holt' declared that the House ,
of,Commons possessed the right of commitment for
a breech of privilege. He was anxious-to: be al-.
fps ed further time.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had many reasons for
thinking that the discussion ought not to be, post-
pone Fl.: He retraced the proceedings on the subjecil,
and contended that if an adjourninent took place, it
':might, perhaps be attriboted to the influence;of Mo-
tives, to the imputation of whichthe House on lit
never to expose theniselves. He could not under.
stand the grounds on which the Honourable and
Learned Member who had just spoken- wished for
an adjeurnment. The question had been treated as
if it were a nevi point, and as if t he-House iu many
former instances, and recently, in the case of Mr.
G.ale Jones; had not deternained it; for let it be
recolleat'..d, that the argument of the Hob.-BaronA

••••f • I • - • was ag" airiM the power of the House to ecnimit
strangers; lie achnitting that they had the power
td
tomnili Methberi. The House; therefore; would
net, have committed Mr. Gale Jones,.Jones,.had net their been folly Satisfied of their power to do. so: If hit
lion. and Learned Ifriend was not so satisfied, why
liad'he not attetiskd the motion for the Como-tit went
Of Mr. Jones sAnd farther, when the Hon. Bari
Made a motion for,the discharge of Mr. Jones; why
had not his Learned Friend then attended if tie en.:
tertained any doubts ? He had abundant opportUni,'
ty to consult authorities, for the Hon. Baronet had
given a week's notice of his motion: The gees--
tion howeVer had been discussed in a full House on
this scale grouridnot whether the Houie had A
_right to notnniit Mr. Jones in the first instance, but
whether his having expressed his contritien at thd
Bar might entitle him to be discharged without
•petition. The question at present before the House
was-s—hot whether the House was vested with the
light of cominitmetstsfor that was fully establie!,eds
but whether-'the Paper of the Hon. Baronet was n'
libel or not ?:If any, doubts could possibly eXist on
_thatl.
subject, he should' be perfealy dispoSe.d to con...
cur in the adjoin-nal:sot of the' discussion ; btu it
appeared to burl that it-Was only necessary to read'
the Paper, ill older to be convinced that it was a
libel, and a gross- violation of -the privileges of the
House. - • . ,
Mr. BATHURST observed; that 'vhen the hosities3
was before ihe House du the precettog day, he
was of, opinion, from the nature of the Pains- uhd,
discussion, that it would be prefera.ble the cons;:
aeration- of the'question should be pststponed to -a
future day. He was still. of-the' same opinion; hi.
which he was not guided by the same qinoVeSWhisli
had, influenced the opinions of many. Hon. Gentles
Men. He did not think that either with- reference:
toktendeiness to the object who I,V2s the subject of
_ the discussion,,Or-from any apprehensioo pt the con-
sequence of the result, should tbe House be induced
to pause. On the grand principle of
_giving ,the
Paper a full and candid perusal, Fo.as that the House
might coine to a just decision, and not. this) w discredit
on.the debates, would he agree to.the adjourtiment:
With respect to the particular parts of Paper, vii whichmuch,s4tference of opinion prevailed,,
-slime
Gen:lemen peSriting out passages which they cleein;,
ed libellous, lie thought it was not a fair line of
,afs
gument to draw such an inference, Istcause the
Pber should be taken together. On .the other
hand it had been urged, that it the House- dial not
consent to delay, the i uople Might tie 'excited to
discontent,' Without entering into an 'examination
ot-these topics, he thought it would be better on a
question of a doubtful nature not to precipitate the •
-Hi7use. Between, these difficulties he would w
slt
to steer a prudent course, and though be would
not go the length of the Amendment, yet he was
of-opinion at least the discussion should be post,
'toned till to-morrow. •
Mr. °wets explained. - _ •It was then proposed by Mr. BA/it:Sri, to move an
Amendment to
_his Motion ;. but. the Speaker haVing
intimated to the Hon. Member, that he could not in
point of torn), the Amendment was propos d by
another Hon. Member, io effect following :—" That •
a great question being-depending ,before the House;
respeaing the. Expedition to Walcheren; which so
fully occupies and, engages its'attention, it is fit that
the consideration of the Motion now under discussion
rcipe6ting the rights and privileges of the House be
adjourned till to-morrow se'dnight."
The Hon. Member who. proposed . this Amend-
Ment asserted,. that there had been a meeting at the
house of the Right HOn. Gentleman . (Mr. P,.rceval)
to prepare these Resolutions, at which . the Mover
and S4conder were present, and consequently they
were Treasury manufitaure.
Mr. LETHBAIDO•Ii, the Mover, immediately arose
to utter the monosyllable ‘`, No !" to the, Right
I-lon. Gentleman's assertion ; and further said the
Hon. Gentleman—"l. dedlare upon my honour,
that the Reiolutions which I had the honour of mov-
ing are not-of Treasury manufaeture !"
The same Hon. Member observed, there was 9n
understanding upon, the subject, for the-Seconder,
as he.was informed, was there.
-Mr. BLAGHFORD, the Seconder, arose, and de-
nied the assertion.

. . .
Mr. IL DUNDAS would not detain the Rouse but
a short time. He vas. not surprised the Hon.'Gen-
,tleman who brought for Ward the .motion of adjour
intent should have said that the question was one cf
great importance. Although he should object to the
adjournatent, his objections were much stronger to
the Ainendtnent now proposed, With respect to the
paper -underdiscussion, his objections to it were not
so much to the matter as to the manner in which the
Hon. Baronet had chosen to dißcuss the suhjeet.....,
The pirriple oestion, for the House to deciFle was,
Whether the Hon; Baronet had discussed it in such a
mode, and in such terms, as Were not an infringe-
ment on; the privi)eges. of this House. It had been
said the resolutions were Treasury manufacture; he
could assure t*. Hon,. Member who made, the asser-
tion that the fact was not so. • •

Mr. WILELERFORCE was anxious to deliver his
sentiments. There was :no man more fervently
convinced than himself. of tLie necessity that not only
the privileges of Parliament,: but that the privileges
of the. People of England-should maintained.--,
•:With that opinion on ,his, mind, he could not
.cou-
sent to 'come to a haSty decision on the question,
unless it was wished that thelneaning of this Itnisi:
should be misconstrued by the-peoph. This was
Just the'cao in which of all others the Etottse shou!d
as if the'Mernbers were all of one mind, There
was no ilnike&ling---so ,dangerous -as _that i.vhich
should effort! to the.people through the means of
an eije: X; ',as if the House ilraS actin contrary to
Abet:- j4st'!'fights. , It . was, the connedion of thii,
House With. the People that cosnstittqed its. greatest
strength; and for these reasons he would wish to
appear as ailing with temperance and moderation.—
When Gentlemen expressed a wish for delay, and
:stated as the'ground for that wish, that they were
not prepared to, come to an honest conclusion, w th.
out further examination of the paper—i,vhen it
should be known to the Public, that a :Learned Gen-
tleman,. (Sir Samuel.,Romiily) who haddeNvered A
most constitutional speech-, and Who, froni his great
legal knowledge,' and; his being. accustomed to re=
searcheSi tipop questions ofconstittitional privilege,
bad detlarkhhat he Wished for time--when o:her
GentieOleti'eipyessed similar wishes, surely it would
Lot •be-toillmueh to let the people see that at le )!ii
the House desirous to be 13/120i010113* Wll-41