The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-21 00:00:00

SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 21, 1844.

E. Casement, carpenter, Weit-street, Bermondsey, Feb.
26, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Turquand, official
assignee.
R. J. Reynolds, horse dealer, Wallis-yard, Pimlico, Feb. 26,
at half-past eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Graham, of-
ficial assignee.
J. Turner, vvhitesmith, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, Feb. 24, at
ele-en, at the Leeds District Court. Hope, official assignee.
J. Senior, Thornhill Lees, Yorkshire, Feb. 24, at eleven, at
the Leeds District Court. Hope, official assignee.
F. Shaw, &am dealer, Rotherham, Yorkshire, Feb. 24, at
eleven, at the Leeds District Court. Fearne, official assignee.
J. Baxter, weaver. Linthwaite, Yorkshire, Feb. 26, at
eleven, at the Leeds District. Court. Freeman, official assignee.
M. Brook, grocer, Halifax, Yorkshire, Feb. 26, at eleven.
at the Leeds- District Court. Young, official assignee.
W. Wills, vessel bawler, Swillington, Yorkshire, Feb. 24,
at eleven, at the Leeds District Court. Hope, official astignee.
B. Rhodes, cloth maker, Pudsey Far-town, Yorkshire, Feb.
26, at eleven, at the Leeds District Court. Freeman, official
assignee._ _

Jr: Whitaker, beer seller, • Halifax, Yorkshire, Feb. 26, at
eleven, at the Leeds• District Cond. Young, official assignee.
C. Twist, railway porter, Leeds, Feb. 26, at eleven, at the
Leeds District Court. Freeman, official assignee.

G. Perry, beer retailer, Bilston, Stafford lire, Feb. 28, at
eleven, at the Birmingham District Court. Whitmore, official
assignee.
A. Akeroyd, coal leader, Ada alton, Yorkshire, Feb. 26, at
eleven, at the Leeds District Court. Young, official assignee.
W. Williams, tinman, Lleerwst, Denbighshire, Feb. 27, at
one, at the Liverpool District Court. Cazenove, official assignee.
J. Charles, master mariner, Porth, Cornwall, March 6, at
one, at the Exeter District Court. Hernarnan, official assignee.
G. Salter, licensed victualler, Tipton, Staffordshire, Feb. 23,
at half-past one, at the Birmingham District Court. Valpy,
official assignee.

peace in that country.--(Cheers.) With regard to the
proposition of the Noble Lord on the subject of the
Irish Church, all he understood the Noble Lord to pro-
pose was this, that the policy he should wish to see
adopted was one which should acknowledge perfect
religious equality.—(Hear, hear.) If Hon. Gentle-
men opposite thought they could raise the "No Popery"
cry in England, he would tell them that they would be
disappointed. The Protestant Dissenters would net be
roused by that cry to aid those who sought to perpetuate
the religious bondage of the Irish.--:(Cheers.) The Pro-
testant Dissenters had been opposed to the Catho-
lics of the olden time, because the-Catholics had been
opposed to civil liberty, but when they found the Ca-
tholics of Ireland were supporting the principle of civil
liberty, the Protestant Dissenters of England would not
be roused by the " No Popery" cry.—(Cheers.) The
existence of the Established Church in Ireland tended
to strengthen the cause of the Roman Catholic religion,
and to make it take deep root-in the hearts of the people.
Nothing but the establishment of religious equality
could produce tranquillity in Ireland. If the payment
of the Catholic priesthood should bo proposed as part of
a great plan for tranquillising Ireland—if it
were conjoined with a measure for the extension
of the franchise, both municipal and Parliamentary,
then he would be prepared to sacrifice his preConceived
opinions, and to support such a measure ; but if it were
proposed as a measure by itself, and separated from any
proposition for ameliorating the condition of the Irish-
people, he should give it all the opposition in his power.
--(Hear.) He should prefer seeing the voluntary system
established in Ireland. He should wish to see the whole
of- the Irish Church vested in the hands of Commis-
sioners, and devoted to the providing of moral and re-
ligious instruction for the whole community.—(Hear.)
That principle might not find favour in this House, but
it had grown up with the growth of the country. It
had gradually made its way among the nation, and if
they wished that the State should receive effective and
pure religion; the hest way of acccomplishing that
was by leaVing religion alone. The history of Dissent
in this country-fully proved that the voluntary princi-
ple, if properly. worked; would be fully sufficient 'to im-
part religious instruction. The Hon. Gentleman went
on to show how Dissent was established in this country,
and said that the State was a pernicious ally of any reli-
gion. Many eminent men had held this opinion, that the
difference between Catholicism and Protestantism was,
that the one sought the aid of the State to uphold it,
while the ether relied on its own independent priest-
hood. As he said before, he would support the payment
of the. Catholic clergy in Ireland as a part and parcel of
a- general plan for the tranquillisation of that country,
but he still should maintain that it would be, desirable,
and he should desire a reversion to the voluntary prin-
ciple. It was a mistake to think that the prosecution
against Mr. O'Conn,ll would deprive him of the sym-
pathy of the people of Ireland. It was an unjust and un-
worthy course to adopt, and was inadequate to attain its
i-nd, for it would only add to Mr. O'Connell's strength in
Ireland, and multiply The number of his friends. 'He
did ilot-COnsider him to bare hada fair. trial:—:(Cheers.)
Under such circumstances the verdict which had been
obtained would have no moral effect. It had been said
that the_ Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State

for the Ilome Department made out a good case with
regard to the striking of the jury, but he (Mr. Hawes)

took a higher objection, and he -did not see why men
should be pronounced unfit to deliver a fair verdict,
because they spoke out their political opinions ,on
the subject of the repeal of the union.—(Hear, hear.)
Would they, apply such a doctrine in this country? If at
the time of the Reform Bill a, Reformer had committed
an offence, would it be alleged that there could not be a
fair and just trial if those who were in favour of Re-
form were on his jury, or that they could not give a
verdict according to the evidence ? He had no faith that
the present Cabinet would do justice to Ireland. What
confidence could be placed in men who sat together, in
the same cabinet, and who changed their opinions and
politics ? The Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of
State for ,the Home Department said, that as
an abstract principle, he had no objection to the pay-
ment of the Roman Catholic clergy. That was a ques-
tion 'which lad been before discussed in that Houle, 4nd
on that occasion the Right Hon. Gentleman, the First lird
of the Treasury, said that the payment of the Catholic
clergy was contrary to the principles of the Reformation,
and they might •as well get rid of the Thirty •nine
Articles. That would be an answer to the Right
Hon.--Gentleman by a member of the same Cabinet.

But_take the case of education : there. was no stienge;
opponent of the Board of Privy Council than the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Ihme
Department. He was now going to increase the grant
to MaynoOth, but who had used stronger language
on the subject than a
,Noble Duke in the other
House ? The Duke of Wellington declared that
it was opposed to' Christianity, and that it
ought not to be permitted to continue. What faith could
he place in the declamations of the Right Hon. Gen •
tleman opposite, when he found opinions so strong ex-
pressed by another member of the Cabinet? Promiees
had been made before under somewhat similar circum-
stances.--(Hear, hear.) He would venture to call
the• attention of the House to the promises
given by Mr. , Pitt, and he was not aware
that this portion of Mr. Pitt's declaration had yet been
brought under the attention of the House. In April
1800, on the proposal of the union, Mr. Pitt said that if
they wished to accomplish
,the great work they had
undertaken, they must look at this important subject in
a large and comprehensive point of view ; they must
consider it as a measure of great national policy—the
object of which was to prevent a separation between two
countries whose connexion was as necessary for the
safety of one as for the prosperity of the other ; they
must regard it, as a measure the object of which was to
give the sister kingdom full participation in the -com-
merce and Constitution of this country—to unite the
affections and resources of two powerful nations, and to
place under one direction the whole force of the empire.
Now he asked Hon. Gentlemen opposite whether, in
point of fact, the union had dissipated jealousy between
the two countries? He would ask the Right Honourable
Baronet whether he was not prevented from carrying
into effect the union ? Her Majesty's Ministers
might be inclined to act, perhaps, in a spirit of impar7
tiality ; but there were gentlemen on that side of the
House who were wedded to their own notions; who were
determined to abide by their,own prejudices ; who had
learnt nothing and forgotten nothing .in the ten years
during which they had been out of office, and who
were resolVed to constrain the Right Honourable
Gentleman (sir R. Peel), not only to rofuse all that
was fair and reasonable, but all which was necessary for
the interest and integrity of the two countries. There
was one man who, at the time when the union was pro-
posed, protested against it in terms most emphatic, not
to say most prophetic ; and his words might well instruct
that party whieh. made Ireland the nursery of sedition.
It was too clear, from the examples he had given, and
froth the authorities he had referred 'to, that from the
first there hid been but a nominal union between
the two nations. The party which had chiefly
governed this country for the last forty years
had kept its position by creating divisions in the
empire ; and it was deter Mined to try for the continu-
ance of its power by the same means which, in the long
Must be alike ruinous to the
.governor and the
governed. All the nobler„objects of government, all the
hopes and aspirations to render a population more
happy, more moral, and more 'pro;perous, must be post-
poned—and all for the fancied good and safety of the
Church. All the old evils of Ireland were to find fresh-_
nourishment, to receive permanency and strength, be-
cause of this Church.—(llear, hear.) The time had
arrived when religious liberty was struggling with
religious intolerance, justice with injustice ; and
though the contest might be a severe one, he had
no fear for the result. It was sai'd, and with perfect
truth, that the eyes of all Europe were fixed upon Ire-
land at the present moment. No msn who glanced over
the foreign newspapers could do so without observing
how all minds Seemed to .be turned upon that country.
It was but natural to expect that the jea-
lousies of foreign nations, in regard to this country
would be excited into livelier action when they saw the
weakness created by our own misgovernment of Ire-
land. And sad ought to be our own reflections, that
should the time of struggle ever come with them, were
we to be doomed to fall, it would not be from the vigour
and power of our foes, but from that innate weakness we
brought upon ourselves in this petty paltry struggle to
maintain the Irish Church.--(Hear, hear,)
Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON said, that Hon. Gen-
tlemen oppoSitemust-be sadly at-a loss for arguments •
against the GOvernment,) when they were. obliged to
speak as the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down
did, of the elevation of two Right Rev. Prelates .to, the
Bench. The Hon. Gentleman also seemed to say, that
being a repealer was sufficient to disqualify a person-
from serving on a jury; but, if the _Hon. Gen-
tleman had read the papers, he would see that
that excuse was made by persons who wished not to
serve on juries, but that the Judges had set the matter
right. The object of the prosecutions was not to put •
down the agitation for repeal, but to repress the manner
in which it was agitated. There had been' much misre-
presentation about the omission of twenty-four names
from the jury list.—(Hear, hear.) It had been said that
upwards of sixty names were omitted, when,. in truth,
only twenty-four were, by accident, - and, that acci-
dent was attributable to. a Roman Catholic officer.
Great stress had 6een laid upon this point of the txclu-
sion of Roman Catholics, but he would give them an ex-
_planation'of the principal cause why.the Catholics were
not more prominent. The, more respectable and upper
classes of that persuasion were so disgusted at the agita-
tors preaching vengeance against the Saxon, instead of,
peace and good will to all wen, that they were glad to re-
tire into private life. And no one could wonder at this,
after the accusations which had been made, even in this
House, against the twelve honest men, and the calum-
nies which had been heaped upon them by the Hon.
and Learned Sergeant the Member. for Cork, who called
them a good Protestant jury, ready to convict, and
ready to immolate their foe—
Mr. Sergeant MURPHY—No, no; I never used the
word "immolate."

ficr4CT.ATEIYE HAMILTON—The Honourable and
Learned Gentleman at all events stated that there was
no justice to be expected from this jury.—(Hear, hear.)
During this debate he had heard much of the readiness
with which the Irish nation would receive a foreign foe,
but he would tell Honourable Gentlemen foreign foes
were not so ready to take advantage of this nation.
He then alluded to the vituperative, abuse which Mr.
O'Connell was in the habit of heaping on Louis Phi-
lippe, and to the talk of raising an Irish brigade.;
and then denied that the Government in Ireland
Was wholly one of force and not one of opi-
nion. It would be impossible with such a military
force to hold 8,000,0000 of inhabitants in such sub-
jection. He, therefore, thought it was a most calum-
nious and unwarrantable insult, to charge the whole
nation with being disaffected to the Queen, and desirous of
throwing off her authority, and dismembering the empire.
Ii had been said that order and peace had prevailed in.
Ireland ; there was no doubt that this was owing to the
preaching of the liouourable anti Learned gegkber for

Cork. But he preached peace, and at the same time
levied an army—he preached loyalty, and at the same time
attempted to alienate her Majesty's army from her.
If the Government had not interfered, the loyal inhabi-
tants of Ireland would have armed themselves in self-
defence, and opposed force to force. One side of the.
House attempted to monopolise all feeling and sympathy
for Ireland, as if Hon. Me gibers on this (the Ministerial)
side of the House were utterly callous to the
grievances and wishes of Ireland, but he could tell Hon.
Gentlemen opposite, that there was an earnest desire
among Members of the Conservative party to redress
the real grievances of that country, and to improve her
condition.. It was said that the Honourable Gentleman
the Member for Cork exercised an all-powerful influence
over the people of Ireland •, and the same was said of the
Roman Catholic priesthood • if so, they were criminable
for all those disgraceful Offences were the result of
agitation and excitement. But the fact was, neither the
Honourable Gentleman nor the Catholic priesthood
were able to control the feelings of the people.
The priests had, in the first instance, raised their voices
against Father Mathew, but the principles of tempe-
rance triumphed, despite the influence of the priesthood.
Ireland should not be considered as one uniform coun-
try, to which the same remedies were applicable,
Ile came from Ulster, and there was not a more peace-
ful, quiet province in Ireland. They had few soldiers
there. Property was safe ; there were no out-
rages : And yet they had no peculiar advan-
tages. They had a third Church to support there,
and the majority of the inhabitants of the province were
Roman Catholics ; but the inhabitants of that province
were, generally speaking, what was denominated
" bloody" Tories, and all those who bad influence
did everything in their power to improve the condition of
the people, to educate them, and instead of endeavour-
ing to set man against man, they endeavouredto unite
all classes of society in harmony.—(Cheers.)-- Let
them compare the state of Ulster with that of
Tipperary. The state of Tipperary made every Irish-
man blush. Had not the societies established from
time 'to time by the Liberals been changed almost every
year on account of their trenching upon the law of the
land? They had had, societies for every object and of
every character, but there had not been one of' them
that had been of a strictly legal character. Was it then
to be wondered at that the unfortunate people of Ireland
had to a great extent forgotten obedience to the law?
They talked of British capital being driven away. Of
course, it was driven away. Capitalists would not go
where life was in danger even in broad daylight.
Capital never would go there till life was safe, and life
would not be safe so long as agitation was permitted.
When English Members complained of the suppression
of meetings in Ireland, they must remember what were
the means used to bring about those assemblages—the
natural excitability of the Irish people, and the
circumstance of their being attracted by the
transcendent eloquence of their leader.—(Hear.)
At some .of the meetings in Ireland there were fifteen
bands of music and numerous banners, things which
never were to be seen at a meeting in England. There
was no similarity between political agitation in England
and in Ireland, and as little similarity between the feel-
ings and passions of the two people. Had not the
Honourable and Learned Member for Cork called
the proclamation of her Majesty a forgery,
and stated that it never had emanated from her ? Of all
the silly accusations which had been brought against,
the Government by lion. Gentlemen opposite, none was
more foolish than that the proclamation was delayed
for the purpose of bringing the people into collision
with the military. He felt no doubt that the object of
the Noble Lord's motion was to attach the stigma of a
want ofconfidence bythe House in her Majesty's Ministers.
Judging from appearances—from the manner in which
the. Hon. and Learned Gentleman had been received by
Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and from the fact of his hav-
ing sent over two counsel to advise with the Noble Lord
—he should be inclined to believe that the Lichfield
House compact hid: been renewed. He deprecated the
attacks which had been made upon the present Govern-
ment of Ireland, and considered that the animadversions
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, last evening, on the com-
position of the jury, on the verdict, and on the charge of
the judge, were calculated to produce anarchy in Ire-
land. He .was glad, to hear that a larger sum was, to be
devoted to the purposes of national education ; but he
trusted that the present system would be modified in
such a manner as to secure to those who were educated
under it a free access to the Scriptures. He should be,
gle.d, to see some measure passed. to legalise the pay-.
meat of dues to the Catholic priests, and to fix their
amount ; and should the dims not be sufficient for the
priest's maintenance, he should not object to a State
allowance. He thought it was a great mistake to grant
only 8,000/. a year to Maynooth; the grant should be in-
creased so as to hold out an inducement to persons of the
superior classes to study for the priesthood. He should
also wish to see the Roman Catholic College removed
from*Maynooth to some part of England, in which the.
Catholic entry and yeomanry of the neighbourhood
would be inclined to treat the students with that courtesy
which they did not meet with at present
The O'CONOR DON protested against Hon. Gen-
tlemen on the other side claiming for themselves a mo-
nopoly of loyalty.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever might be
the result of this debate, the declaration of the Noble
Lord with regard to the kind feelings of her Majesty to-
wards her Irish subjects would be gratefully remembered
in that country—(Loud cheers)—and justly appreciated.
—(Cheers.) There was not a more loyal body in exist-
ence than. the Rotnan Catholic population of Ireland—
(Cheers)—and this was no conditional loyalty--it did
not depend.en considerations of time or circumstance—
Upon ,V4hik„or Tory being in power. It was sincere and
genuine attachment to the SoVereign.—(Loud cheers.)
He objected-to the system which had been pursued to-
wards Ireland by the present Government. It was true
that many circumstances, of which complaints had been
made, had been explained during the course of the de-
bate, but those circumstances had created an impression
which no after•explanation could eradicate, and it was
the duty of the Government so to act as not to place
itself under the necessity for explanation. He did not
think the explanations which had been offered to
account for the delay in the issuing the proclamation
prohibiting the meeting at Clontarf were satisfactory.
Np attempt had been made to interfere with the
Donnybrook meeting, which had been held under pre-
cisely similar circumstances. The people had behaved
most peaceably; and when it had been hinted that the going
to Clontarf in a certain direction might hurt the feelings
of the Protestants, who would meet them on the road to
church, they had stated their determination to avoid
going to the, meeting by that road. There had been
no breach of the peace at the other meetings, and there
was no pretence for saying that there was any reason to
apprehend a breach of the peace at Clontarf. They had
had no intimation that the meetings were illegal. The.
Duke of Wellington had stated, in the House of Lords,.
that ,he did not know whether these meeting,s were legal,
and the late Lord Chancellor of England, one of the
greatest lawyers of the day, had, in the same debate,
stated that although the meetings were large, yet if the
parties sought for constitutional objects only by legal
and peaceful means, there was no ground for considering
them illegal.—(Hear, hear.) • Now considering that the
Lord Chancellor of Ireland had told the people of
Ireland that they were to read the debates in Parlia-
ment, , and be. guided by them in their conduct, he
thought that opinion was a sufficient justification of their
conduct. It was cruel of the Government, if they thought
those,meetings illegal, not to have stated so at once, in-
steadof entrappingmen of peaceful habits into this vortex
of agitation.—(Cheers.) lie did not think the explanation
with respect to the omission of names from the jury
panel at all satisfactory. He acquitted the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite (Mr. Shaw) of all knowledge of
the omission. He knew it would be foreign to his na-
ture to do anything so unfair, but he could not but re-
eo'lect that Mr. Justice Perrin had said that the omis-
sion was not free from suspicion.
Mr. SHAW—The facts bad not then been stated.
The O'CONOR DON believed that the case had
been fully argued by counsel before Judge Perrin had
stated, in giving judgment, that there had been gross
neglect somewhere, and that the case was not free from
suspicion. With respect to the striking off the names
of the Roman Catholics, which had been justified by the
Hon. and Gallant Member for Armagh, he would ask
that Hon. Member whether, if, in 1829, the Govern-
ment had thought proper to institute a prosecution
against persons connected with the Orange Associa-
tions, who met in large numbers to petition for the re-
peal of the Emancipation Act, he would have thought
it fair in the Government to strike the name of every
Protestant from-- the jury, and to try them by a
jury composed_ exclusively of Roman Catholics ?—whe-
ther he wouldhave thought it right for the Solicitor-
General to state that he did not believe the Protestants
were worthy to be believed on their oaths, and that
therefore they must be struck off the panel? .The Right
Hon. Gentleman said peace had been established by the
verdict. If he meant by that there had been no breach
of the law, it should he recollected that there was no
breach of the law before the prosecutions commenced.—
(Cheers.) But the national .mind had never been more
disturbed than it was at the present moment ; and he
much feared that serious consequences might arise from
the people being deprived of the opportunity of express-
gig their opinions.—(Hear hear.) Government might
prevent an outbreak, but it could not enforce upon
the people the performance of those social duties,
the omission of which would produce immense evil.
He firmly believed that no man abhorred the commis-
sion of crime more than Mr. O'Connell. He, in com-
mon with other Roman Catholics, felt a -deep debt
of gratitude to him, for to him were they mainly in-
_debted for giving them a _share in the Constitution.—
(Hear, hear.) He thought they should feel indebted to
,the Hon. and Learned Gentleman for the discussion on
the present motion. It was not very long ago that the
Noble Lord, the Member for London, spoke of finality;
it was only e. few months ago that the Right Honourable
Gentleman opposite said there was an end of concession;
but yet, on the present occasion, they were rivalling ono
another in professions' of anxiety to serve Ireland.—
(Hear, hear.) He agreed with the Noble Lord in think-
ing that one of the first objects which it was imperative
on the Government to effect was, to render the admi-
nistration of justice pure in Ireland. Confidence in the
laws should be restored ; respect for the laws could only
exist in sympathetic confidence between the governors
and the governed. Within three months after the ar-
rival of Lord De. Grey in Ireland, the number of memo-
rials from the three Roman Catholic provinces to the Exe-
cutive .had diminished by half, whilst that of Protestant
Ulster was increased three-fourths.—(Hear, hear.) Ile
objected to the appointment of new stipendiary magis-
trates at present, but he objected to it because he knew
that men would be appointed in whom the people
had no confidence. Last night, the Solicitor-Ge-
neral challenged the Opposition to show a single
instance in which a. Catholic had not been appointed to
a Government situation when be was equally eligible as
a Protestant. He would instance one. In the county
which he (the O'Conor Don) represented, a situation
in the gift of the Crown had become he vacant y the death
of a Mr. Cummins. Himself and her colleague a ex-
erted themselves very much to procure-the Bitution for