The Sun.
London, England, 1810-05-09 00:00:00

1111PERL4L PARLLIMENI:

HOUSE OF- PEERS,
TUESDAY, MAY 8.
it The House in a Committee of Privileges heard
'Air. Gillies on the claims to the Roxburgh Peerage.
A
further hearing to-morrow.
Several Private Bills were brought- up from the
'3 Itmons, and read a first. tittle.
The Irish and Scotch Judges' Salary Augmenta-
uon Bill was reacta second time.
Lord HOLLAND gave, notice that on Friday se'n-
rlight he .shouid move the 2d. reading of 4he Bill for
4tllending
.the Acts respectitz Privalely Stealing,
aMtteir Lordships -were 'ordered to be summoned-
fur that. day.

CRUELTY TOWARDS ANIMALS.

The H ,use lug resolved itself into a Committee 7
°tl this- 611, a, number of ainettdcnents, Many of
tl
verbal, were moved.
ELLENBOROVGLI suggested the propriety of
silbstt utusg the words " stab and- in place of
the Words "cu and wound." His Lordship also
e,,,taiessQd Ids doubts as to the . general efficacy of
Bili.

these Opinion:, Lords ELDON, LAUDERDALE,
HOLLAND, nearly ooinctded, and disapproved of
the idea ut icharding such a measure merely upon
theoretic
ground,. It vt as then recommended to
fecbmri
init the Bill for that day se'night, when a
all r attendance might be expeCted, and for which
'4IY their Lord4hips should be suiumon:d.
stiggustioA, after some observations from
"Ird EkOkINE, was adopted, and the Bth was ae-
vo.kiiiigiy ordered to be reeuminitted this day se!en-
tiiol.--Adjourried.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

TUESDAY, MAY e.

The E.trl of Essex's Estate Bill went through a
,•mittee.
The House went into a Committee on'the Aet
relating to Herrings, which is near expiriug.—A re-
t()lutioii was agreed to for reviving the same.
Pelson 'fro 1, tine Excise Office presented an
Account of the Duties on Spirits, which was laid
c3tl_l he table.

Mr. LYTTLETON postponed his 'notion, which
,V)ud for this day, rcspeding -Capt. Foskett, till
ttursday next, and the motion on the same sub-
which stood for Thursday, until that day se'n-
Iligitt.

The Irish Stage Coach Bill was postponed tin
trriday. •
Tile Stage Coach Bi!1 vent through a committee,
and the Report was received, and ordered to be
t 'ken into further consideration on Monday se'n-
Iligl4. •

The
Housewent into a Committee on the neces-
pof making coini,ensation to. Scotch Extractors.—
lie resolution to tlial effett was agreed to.
The Report of tne Bill fur abul:sbmg Commissary
4141 Inferior Courts in Scothaid was brought up and
'clrect.l to. ' •

Mr. SHAW LEFErRE presented a 'Petition from
Inn7keepers, re-petting the Bill now before
`ll-liatnent, for their relief. The Hon. Gentleman
hated, that he should move that this Petition; and
4Uille others on the_same subject, should be referred
t
4aComtnittee. The Penttun was then laid on the

A Message from the Lords announced that their
I'ordships tad ag'eed to. several Private Bills.

PETITION OF THE LIVERY OF LONDON.

Sir WILLIAM CURTIS lose and stated, that he
Aleid in. his hand 'a Petition from the Lord Mayor,
„lderden, and Livery of the City of London, in
‘-;otomon-liall -ase.nbted, which he was desired to
Present to the House.. The Petitioners, among other
things, he observed, expressed -their sorrow and
regret at certain proceedings of thiS House, and
rievances for whi:.ll they desired a remedy ;
that it had 13,,en declared in this House, that the doors,
Pirinitnent should be open wide to Petitions, and:
there or they came for relief. The Hon. Baronet.
it was but fair he sl.oukl mention to the House,
14 the Petition ‘ivis not exactiy the petition of the
‘‘'hole Body -
"'ill was rather full, yet there .were many thou-
sands not present. At the same time, he must tle,
Tarr, that the Meeting was constitutionally con-
l'tetied bx the Lord Mayor, and the sentiments of
the Pt-Anton were those of the Livery :so assem-
bled. The Petitioners, observed the Hon. Baronet,
after stating certain grievances of which they corn-
- rain, beg this House to reconsider the measures late,
adoOted, 17,;_th reference to the committal of 1\ it-.
t'ned ani Sir. Francis Burdett, to retrace your steps
It1(1 to expunge from the Journals the resolutions
t.°llle to on that occasion. Now these sentiments,
t.,_
uotigh coming from the Livery, it is my duty
(0 convey- to the House, as one 'of the' repre-
sentatives of the City.'of London, yet I must de-
clare that they are very far from being my own.
The Mition was then brought up and read. by
fhe Cie* at the table._
Sir W. CURTIS then. mogeci, that it do lie on the
table:

`Zr. Secretary RYDER rose to oppose the motion.
4 lie Right Hon. Secretary declared that in rising to
go so, he was discharging his duty as an independ
et.,'t Member of Parliament, .and he should' ftei less
4ettion to state his own sentiments, because the
Ivotthy Baronet
,h id stated that
.the Meeting of the,
pf ''very was consiitutionconvened, yet the Peti-
'
ttuo was'not the sense of- a very great body of his
c°llstituents. At the same-tithe he was bound to
give his opinion, that though the Petition contain-
ed the sentiments of the' persons assembled, it ought
.110 t to lie on die taUe. He could. not-consent to let
a I~etitioh, certainly drawn up with great art and ad
dress in order to avoid chjettion to its recepiion, be
laid on the table. _ The
,Petitioners having- seen that
"'lot;.er petition had been rc-jeCied had • recourse to
all the art they possessed to prevent a similar- fate
to the present petition, but it was impossible that
the House could shut its eyes to the wording of this
I'r'tt oil, hic it conveyed the most marked insult.
to the House, and was calculated tp degrade it in the
(t'Yei of the country., Some parts of the Petition
L'" could not pass over without observatibn. They
Where is your justice and yotir dignity,
'hell ytiu did so, acid so and • so." Was not that
and if a petition of this nature Was ad-
r'l.tted on the-tab t, the House would deserve to be

degraded, and to be the mockery and insult of
the constituents of. the, realm. For these rea-
sons, he should move, " That, the petition be re-
jeCied."
11,1 r. Alderman COMBE was
,sorry that the Right
Hon. Gentleman . should objet to 'the reception of
the Petition ; and he was surprised that he should
do so, after his worthy colleague, the Hon. Baron-
et, hadoited that the meeting was constitutionally
convened. The Petition was in fa6t that of the ma-
jority of the Hall. It was impossible that the whole
of the Livery could be assembled, as the Hall would
not contain them. Of those who were assembled
there were not .above fifty • held up their hands
aglinst it. If that was not the-criterion of the sen-
timents of a body of men, he did not know what;
was. The Hon. Alderman observed that he saw
-by tLe• papers, for he did net 'know the 'fad in any
other way, that a counter-meeting had been held,
and among the names subscribed ar that meeting In
the resolutions and declarations, he saw e'ght or. ten
who were at the Comthon-hall, and' held .up their
bands against.the petition. To be sure every body
knew that at'a popular Meeting the adverse party
were not allowed to speak. (A laugh). Gentlemen
might laugh, but the fad was so ; but, though they
even could not be heard, they held up their hands.—
He should Vote for the petition to be laid on the
table.

Sir W. CURTI, in explanation, states that he
had not said the majority Were 'not in favour Of 'the
petition.

Sir CHARLES PRICE had the honour of .attending
the meeting as one of the Represeutatives, and he
conceived it his duty 'to call the,attention of. the
-House to the manner in. which it was condUderl.
The House, he was satisfied, had never assumed power,
or privilege but for the people's proteaiOn, and
therefore he. was ready to maintain them. At the
meeting he had offered himself to their notice to
deliver his sentiments, but was not permitted, for
general clamour was the order of the day.—Any
one who was known to be of a contrary opinion was
insulted, and many wished to speak on that side, htit
were not allowed. • The Honourable Baronet as-
serted that the majority of the Livery did nut enter-
tain the doarines which the Petition contained, and
he should be'unfitto represent that city if he did not
state so much. He was satisfied from the declara-
tion issued a: the counter-meeting; that the resped-
able part of the Livery were of differein sentiments.-
He must therefore maintain the sentiments of the
declaration,- and could not subscribe to the general
opinions of the pet*ition, nor lend a hand ,to sup-
port it, but vote for the motion of the Right Hon.
Gentleman.

. Sir James SHAW observed, that the Worthy Ba-
ronet had very properly stated that the meeting was
legally convened. With respeet to its being numer-
ously- attended, there might be a few thousands.
The description of them was of a general nature;
there certainly were many very respeelable Livery-'
men present. When he delivered, his sentiments in
the Hall, he had stated that the language of the pe-
tition was not the language nor the sentiments of the
great body.of the Livery. There 110 been -another
meeting since ; and to the deelaratiog issued at that
meeting he understood there were 1400.n4mes sub-
scribed.: he could state, that there-were not,. in •his
opinion; 1400 Liverymen at the Common 11,11 ;
he felt it however to be his duty to give support to
the petition.

Mr. Wiseraaari expressed liis surprise at the
conduCt of the Right Hon. Secretary in objeding •
to the Petition, and his conduct in applauding the
sentiments of the two Hob. Baronets after the state-
ment of the other Hon.-Baronet who .presented the
Petition. With respeei to the-smallness or largeness
of the.majority in favour of the petition, his sur-
prise was-excited that the Right Hon. Gentleman,
who, in 'concert with his colleague, persuaded a
majority of thirty-eight only to send Sir Francis
Burdett to the Tower; that be should contend that '
the small number present was not the decision of
the whole body, though the meeting was nearly
unanimous, was too much. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman bad objected to the e4pressioe in the Peti-
tion of " where is the dignity and justice the
House." As well might they have said, " where
was the common sense oft he HonSe when theyt brow
a shield over the Right Hon. Gentleman, and the
Noble Lord when charged with having abetted cor-'
ruption." The House cnight talk of preserving its.
dignity, but might not the people after such' a pro-
ceeding ac.tvi,e them if they wished to preserve their
dignity, to begin by retracing their steps, and ex-
punging the resolutions complainect of, which -were•
a disgrace to the House ?- Had not the House pros
mulgated the doEtrine that seats were bought and sold,
and yet when the people retorted on them their own
declarations they must not be receivA. What-was
the language of the people ? why that the construce
tion of the House was bade Let the House look to
their own Journals to be satisfied that the assertion
was true. Did not a Right Hon. Gentleman, Mr.
Yorke, shut the doors of the House while another
Right Hon. Gentleman shut the ears of the Sove-
reign ; and did not the first Right Honeurable Gen-
tlernan after obtaining 9 Tellership of the Es.Che-
quer for his services, go down to Cambridge, Where
he was beloved_ as a private Gentleman, to be re-
turned; but the eledors were so dissatisfied with
his public condud, that' they reje&ed him :..and
what was the consequence ?'---Why,-after being ap-
. pointed to a situation of high official trust, he was
obliged . to be returned for a borough. In the Crown
Office the people were told that 'Mr. Yorke was no-
minated to a seat in the' House of Commons by.a
Peer of the realm ; could the House, after this,
complain if the people talked of the construction
of the House of Commons, and complained of it ?
The Hon. Gentleman saw no objection to the Peti-
tion on account of its language. The Middlesex Pe•
tition was reje&ed,
.yet that Petition was not so
;strongly worded as the Westminster Petition, which
was received. Then' comes the City of London,
• and that was to be reje&ed because the petitioners
had been studious to avoid giving offence. What
did Ministers want ? Did they desire that the sub-
' jest should petition according to the
_form which
they should_ prescribe ? And was it iistended, in
case they should remain long enough in office, to
tell the people that unless. They did so, they should,
not petition at all. Mr. W. then adverted to the
opinions delivered by the Right Hon. Secretary on
the, preceding night, with resped to the case of Mr..
Wilkes; and, he observed,. that to the struggles of
that patriot, assisted by Ow legal opinions of Lords

•
Camden and Chatham, on the subjea of general
warrants, the people were mainly, indebted for the
4)reservation of their remaining liberties. He then
noticed the refusal of the Right Hon._G.entleman to
allow the Livery to approach the Throne ; and ob-
served, that the name of the Sovereign had been in-
decorously used to ppelion Ministers in their refusal.
He contended,. that the Levee, from 1775 to the
year 1809, was the proper place topresent addresses.;
that. until the Right Honourable Gentleman refused
to allow them to see the King, they had never been
denied; that ;he obstrutlion which they had met
with was truly stated by Mr. Cartwright, and. was
.prOceeding in hiS observations on the fanner discus-
sion, a hen • .

. .
The CHANCELLOR 'of the EXCHEQUER here ' rose
to order,- The Honourable Gentleman', he con-
ceit ed, wts clearly disorderly in. referring to a for-
flier debate.

;+,4. WHITBREAD admitkd that he was nut of
ord.,:r. He then proceeded to comment on the con-
duct of mv Lord Hawkesburv, when Secretary of.
State,, who, he understood, never presented one ad-
dress. In what situation then, he observed, d.d the
subject stand? After some further observations on
these topici, the Hon. Gentl man contended, that
the House would be departing more and mere
from its dignity if it refused to receive the Peti-
lion, and would be committing an ad of injustice
.to the people. ,

Mr. WILB.ERFORCE rose, to stlggest the propriety
of 'adjOuroing the debate, in order to give time for
mature deliberaion. When he considered the ex-
treme responsibility of the body from which the'
present Petition emanated, he could not but exceed-
ingly wish' that the final decision upon the recep-
tion or rejedioh of it should be alter lull considera-
tion. It was due to the Livery, after the calm man-
ner 111 which the two former petitions had been co-o-
sidered, that they-should experience. similar atten
tion: He would rather that the result of the deli-
beration should be- after the Petition had been at-
tt ntively read, and not that the House should come
to a vote upon the casual reading of it at t Ire. table,
Sure he was, that by so doing:Atte HoUse.Would be
shewing respect to the first city in the World, and to
the people of England. He could not conceive any
injury could come from adjourning the debate for
24 blurs, and therefore should move " that the de-
bate be adjourned-till to-morrow:"
Mr. S. SMITH had read the Petition with care, and
was prepared to vote immediately. He thought the
opinions of the Right Hon. Secretary -out of. all
time and: place, and if a&ed upon likely to lead to
endless disputes. It had been agreed on all hands
that the meeting of the Livery was legal, that the
majorny•were in favour of the Petition, but then it
was objected
.that the sentiments were sucli as could
not be received. Why, it was not likely the Peti-
tioners would petition against what they did like,
and therefore the Petition must, in some degree,-
be objeaionable. With respect to the Woo- former,
Petitions, he had objected to the Middlesex Petition
because it contained_otTensive expression.. The pre-
sent Petition did not contain any thing of that na-
ture, but merely asserted matters of fad, which in
their belief they stated do exit. On this ground,
.therefo,:e, of the Petition staling fads, he should vote
for its lying on. the table.
Mr. BARHAM thought there was no ground to in
duce the House to refuse the Petition. .He had
read-it attentively, and could not 'see to what part
any reasonable ground of objection count be stated,
.unless it was to that part which alleged that murder
had been committed, when, in point of fad, that
.allegation had not been proved. To that part of.
it which asked " 'where is your justice and dig-
nity," he saw no objcaion, but on the cceqrary sub-
s,:ribed to the opinion as referable to' the case al-
luded to, as'indeed he did to many of the assertions
in the Petition.
Lord. A. HAMILTON conceived that no alarm
mull be excited so great as that in which a Ministry
succeeded in dragging along with them this House,
in their obje6tion to the-subjeifi's petitions. Most
parts of the Petition now under consideration had
the sanction of the House, for they were expressions
used and adopted by the House, and caught by the
itionen,. who' infused them into the Petition. As
to the dignity of the House being affeeted, he. must
refer to the resolutions of lastyear on the subje& sot the
charges against two of his Majesty's Ministers,
'which.resolutions did not increase the dignity of the
House: Such, being his opinion, he should on some
future day move to have them expunged. If the
House expected respect, and a proper attention to
its dignity, they must begin to practise it, and nut be
content with re declarations.

Mr. C. AilttiviS thought the Petition was. rather
Of a inandstorynatnre. The Hon. Gentleman dreW
a distinction between the assertions in it, which he
thought made all the difference., and sheaved that the
Petitioners, though guarded in their language, meant
to convey a strong sense of indirect insult.

The CHANCELLOR• Of the EXCHEQUER had not

heard any reason to convince hitti that the House
ought not to deal with the Petition just presented as
they had dealt with the last Petition presented to
their) on the same subject. The objection made by
his Right Hon. Friend to the reception of the Peti-
tion was not grounded on the assumption that it did
not speak the sentiments of the majori'y of the Li-
very.

That was a question, the consideration of

which would on no occasion influence the House to
receive or to
.reject a petition. His Right Hon.
Friend had been completely misunderstood, and had
only argued. that in objecting to the reception of,
the Petttion, on the ground that it contained matter
and expressions which rendered it impossible fur
Oh House, consistently with their duty to them-
selves and to their constituents, 'to entertain it;
it'was some consolation to him to reflect, that it did
not proceed from a majority of the body wh )se Peti-
tion it professed to be. -Indeed, when the small num7
ber of signatures to the Petition was considered, al-
though i,t did follow that there were not many indi-
viduak consenting to its object ; yet it was a fair in-
ference, that tile number was not so great as was at,
tempted to be represented. -The distinct ground on
which 'he'sbould vote for the rejection of the Peti-
tion, however, was, that, it was wholly introduced to
insult the 'House. If any one could make it ap-
pear that such was not the evident object of the Pe-
i timers; he would concur in the motion for its re-

ception._ - In his view of the subject, it was impos-.
-sible to understand it in any other manner. He
trusted, that the House v, Pad not confine their ex-
' atuination of the Petition to one or tvio of the'iu-

_ r
traductory passages, and that, thersevoald :ncts-be
inclined, because the Petioners affected " !nimbly
to conceive," to. give admission to ae Petition of a
nature so offensive. It was true, that in the Peti-
tion rejected the other day the most gkoss'and,un
Shielded declarations werecentained ht.% II other
petitions,. having the same purpose itessiews and
comprising the same matter, with the single excep-
tion of being somewhat more .inarded, e ere admit-
ted, how idle would the: proceeding; of. the HoUse
appear, and how completely woutd they hold theta-`
selves up to public contempt. An Hon. Gentleman
opposite (Mr. Whitbread) seemed to think that pe-
titions of any sort ought to be received. The aro.-
ment of that tionour.:ble Gentleman was that the
House of Commons had already lost its dignity and
its sense ot justice, and that the confidence of the '
people in it was
,shaken. Not only did tbe.Ho-
nourable Gentleman -declare that such were his es
sentisnents, hut he added, that the House must.
not expect the• people of England to approach' them
in their petitions with deference and respect. -If
that were indeed the opinion of. the Honourable
Gentleman, he-might well argue for the reception of
any petition, however offensive and insulting. If
that Hon. Gentleman were prepared to receive the
insults of any petitioners—if he even led the way in
insulting the House—if he- contended that the de-
claration that the House had lost its dignity was the
language of truth and justics—then indeo it was no
longer surprising that he sheuld support such a petis-
iien as that which it was proposed to lay tin the table.
He could not, however, conceive that the observa-
tions of the Hon. Gentleman grounded on such argud
ments, would have any weight with the House; how-
ever vieleritly they might he usgede Tile Hon.
Gentleman asserted that his Majesty's -present Mis
nisters were tnen calculated to bring the country,
into a difficult situation, but that theV were not men
calculated to fight the battles of the Hoeseof Com--
mons against the People. If that battle must be
fought, it seemed that ihe House would not have
the assistance of the THonourable Gentleman. Oa
the contrary, it seemed that he was one of those
-with whom the House would have to contend.--
Whatever might be the success of that battle, he
trusted that the appeeranee of such insulting docus
-meets as that just presented would Inspirit the
House to resist the ousels that was making upon
ehern, and to shew that they were not to be iutimi-
dated, although their assailants might he beaded
even by the Honourable Gentleman himself. As to
the proposition for deferring the decision of The pre-
sent question; he really was at' a loss to conceive
what doubt could exist in the mind of his Honour-
able Friend, with respect to the course which it be-
came the House to pursue: Rising, however,'
yielded to a similar wash expressed on a former oc-
casion, be -should not objeti to his Honourable
Friend's proposition. He tt Listed, that his Honour-
able Friend•ansj the House wotild in tbe mean time
consider the Petition, and determine whether or not
it was proper that the dignity and justice of they
should be•questioned by Petitioners, who
" humbly conceived" not only that their proceed-
ings had been contrary to law, but that t o united
effort of' the Legislainre could make them legal--
who stated, that egey were not at all surprised at
those proceedings, when they refleEted on the mar--
nor in which the finose Wasconstru,`:t.sl—who,
al-
luding..to a vote of •tlie House, declared' that they
could not contemplate ,it wisheut. indignation and
disgust—and who assertsd, that the House cif Coin-%
mons had lost the remaining confidence of the peo-
, pie ?—Were not _these expressions :insults ? -Could
any rational man dOubt that it was the distina ob-
jest of the Petitioners, under the. mask of humble
• conception, to insult the House of Cenenons more
grossly than they had been insulted 'even on former
occasions? It had been said by some onein the
course of the debatelbat he (she Chancellor of the
Exchequer) objeaed to the reception ot the. Petition,
because of the manner in which his own name was
mentioned in it. He had however' given manifold
evidence that such did‘not forM wi h bins a ground
for the rejection of a Petition. The first Petition-
presented on " this suhjed, and in .tbe reception of
which he had acquieSced„ mentioned him in a si-
milar mounter.' He had consented to the reception
of that petition, because it came in the first instance
from the constituents of the person who had .just
then been committed by the House to the Tower ;
because the Petitioners had hardly had time to de-
liberate bn the stria propriety of their expressions,
and bedause he was anxious that no captiOusness
should he shewn by the House .on such a suhjeEt as
the receiving of the Petitions of the people. Bet
did it follow that from day to day and from week to
week the'House were bound to entertain fresh and
increasing insults ? -It was too obvious that there,
• Was a disposition existing, in many individuals with-
out those walls to degrade and vilify the two
Houses 'of Parliament, and he was sorry to add that
there seemed to be a person in that House disposed
to- lend his assistance to such an effort, and to set
the example of using the strongest language of of..
fence.—He trusted that after a mature consideration
the House, on resuming the discussion, would treat
this Petition as it deserVed—that they would cOre
sides that the character ot a Petition ought to'be des
cent and respettful to the Body to whom it was ad-
dressed—that they Would .de:elmine that although
they would not captiously lay hold of any accidental
impropriety of language in a Petition, yet that when-
there could be no-hesitation in believing that a Pe.;
titian was presented for the express purpose of in-
suits it would be weakness to consent to its being
. laid on their table.

!

Mr. WHITBREAD av-ailod him Self of theopportu4
nity afforded hiM by the new question of adjourn-_
menti; to reply to some of the observations of the
Right Hon. Gentleniin. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man had supposed that he (Mr. W.) was one of
those. who tlught- that every petition,Aought to be
received by the House, let it be couched in what
'language it might. • This was not the fad. As a
Member of Parliament. he had always conceived
himself bound to present to :he House any petition
communicved to him by any ir,dividual for that
purpose, unless that petition contained offensive ma,-
ter or language ; and with this sentiment he bad
frequently suggested their coriefition •by the peti-
tioners of petitions so given to him for preSentation.
But the Petition under consideration was the'Peti-
tion of a constituted and dslibefativq,bocly—of a
body whcx had a right to address nis Majesty on the
throne ; and who bad exercised that right until ob-
struacd by the present Administration. He con-

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1, in opposition to the Righ't Hon. Gentleman,
ehjeof- o the Petitioners was not-decidedly
- House, and condeinned the mode in
ch.theHonse-. seemed to seek for insult. The
Hon.'•Gentrenn- had accused him•-of express-
ing'hieerlf in strong 1 inguage with . respeCt to the
,tit of' dignity and justice in the House of Com-
'its. To this accusation, 'he would Only reply
strong as his expressions had been, language
was deficient in terms of adequate strength-to
exeress the sense which he entertained of the want
of eignity in the House of Commons, as consider-
ing tiler coeduel 'with reference to themselves, and
'of want of justice as considering their conde6twith
reference.to others. TO the day of his death, he
.`would fight the battles of the People with the House
of Commons, when the House of Commons were
unjust, and he did not know how he could better
acquit himself as a citizen. 'Whoever might lead
the battles of the Hots. Gentleman opposite, of this
he w,..s convinced, that even .had the House justice
their side-, the Right Hon. Gentleman was in-
capable of beingthat leader ; how Much more inca-
pable-did he prove himself to he,'when 'he betrayed
'the HOnseinte steps whicis they must ultimately be
compelled to retread. The Right Hon. Gentleman
had originally ,deluded the present :House of Corn-
'mons by the grossest bigotry. It was probable, that
unle,s they
,were found sufficiently pliable; he would
be obliged" to advise their termination by, a sudden
dissolution. -For his part, he had no heSitation in
distindly declaring it -was his opinion, that let the
existence of the present Parliament terminate when
it might, it would terminate in disgrace.
Lord A. HAMILTON• explained.
Captain PARKER declared, that while he had a
seat in that House; he would never agree to the re-
ception of any Petition which directly or indireafy
insulted the House. The present was of the latter
desciiption. It was not a Petition, but an artful
snare to entr,sp the House.' The Petitioners set up
their opinion against the opinion of thellousei but
'it was the duty of_t be.H9use to she the Petitioners
that they did not regard their Opiniop, and that they
consider their own much better. The Petition con-
tained nothing less ,than an accusation of the House
'of, Commons of murder. He would vote for its
rejection. - As he was on his legs he would ob-
serve, that he conceived it a very unfair thing to
bring the 'Teller of the Exchequer on the carpet
on every dishission,, whatever it Might be. He un-
derstood that that Right Hon. Gentleman would
unquestionably have gained his e;ea()I1 for Cam
bridgeshire had he chosen, to persevere,
Mr. Alderman COMBE could not consent to post-
pone the decision of the House one moment upon
the Petition before them. Adverting to the obser-
vation male by the Right Hen. the -Chancellor of
the Exchequer with_respe& to the paucity of signa-
tures, he. explained that that was owing to a Re-
solotion of the Common Hall, by which the nuni-
ber of those who were. to sign the Petition was
limited.
Mr. Secretary RYDER, in .consequence of the
statement Made by an Hon. Gentleman, that tOhim
(Mr. II.) was-attributable the refusal of his Majesty
to receive in person'the Petition of the Livery, ob-
seried, that he had done no more than the Hon.
Gentleman's own friends. •He had a&ed precisely
in the" same way as his predecessors had done ever
sine:, Lord Grentille held the situation which he had
abet) the honour to fill.
Mr. WHITBREAD did not know how the Right
Hon. Gentleman's predecessors had aged, but he
knew that the I,,ivery of London had a right to have
access to his Majesty, and he knew, that by ad-
vising his Majesty not so to receive their Petition; the
Right Hon. Gentleman had closed one door to the
Petitions of the subje6f...
The question of adjournment was then .put, and
carried without a division.
SIR FRANCIS BURDETT.
The SPEAKER informed the House, that he had
been desired by the Serjeant at Arms to apprise them
that he had that day been served with the notice of
a process at laW by Sir F. Burdett.
On the motion of the CHANCELLdi •of the Ex-
CHEQUER, the Serjeant was ordered to be called to
the Bar, to state particulars ; but as one of the Mes-
sengers reported-- that- the Serjeant was not in at-
tendance, the fi,.rther consideration of the subject
was for the time postponed. •
SPAIN.
On the tnoL--ei of Mr.- CANNING, an humble

t

`Address was ordered to be presented to his Majesty,,
praying that he would he graciously pleased to order
that there be laid before•the House a variety of ad—
ditional dispatches to and frorn,Mr. Frere and the
Marquis Wellesley.—We understood • the Right
Hon. Gentleman to intimate his,wish that his Hon.

Friend (Mr. Sheridan, who was not present),
would defer for a few days his motion, which stands
for Monday, in order to give time for the produc-
tion of the above-mentioned. papers.
MACAO.

Mr. PRENDERGAST; in pursuance of his notice,
ente.ed into a long description of the:Expedition
sent under Admiral Drury to the Island of Macao,
and of the consequent breach of good,understand-
ing bet ween the British there and the. Chinese. Go-
vernment. Affer a variety of observations on the
expvliency of procuring every possible information
'with Tete& to a transaCtion, which he charac-
tet ised as highly disgraceful and impolitic, he moved,
that there be laid before the House the following
papers
" Copies of all Dispatches, with their dates, that
had been received by the Lords Commissioners of
the Admiralty and the Hon._ tliCouo of Dire tors
of the Etst India Company, relative to the late Ex-
rdition sent under the command of his Excellency
itt-ar-Admiral Drury, to the Island of Macao, in the
`Chinese Seas.

‘.‘ Copies of all Orders issued by the Lords Com-
' -missioners of the Admiralty to his Excellency
Rear-Admiral Drury, on the subject of the Reports
Inade by htm relative to the issue Of that Expe-
dition. .

" Copies of all Orders given by the Board of
Controt.:l, and of all Orders sent to the Governor-
General of India, or to the Conitpany's Supercargoes
et, China, relative to the late Expeaitioit to Macao,
to any occupation of. that Island by the troops of
the East India Company." ' .

S. DuND" As; at...eonsider2ble length, de-

`fended the Executive Government, Lord Minto, and
'the Company' S Supercargoes, from any imputation
consequent upon the transactions at Macao. He
opposed the motion, as tending to no good purpose,
.but, on the contrary, calculated to produce some
injury.
Mr. G. JOINSTONE supported the motion.—Any
attempt to ii.volve this country in hostilities with
China, in his opinion, aemauded the most serious
investigation.
Mr. WALLts objeCled to the produCtiOn of the
Papers, which would .be attended with considerable
inconvenience.
Sir HOME POPHAM maintained that at least a part
of th,t Papers moved for might be produced. His
motive in rising wa *to do justice to Admiral Drury,
by calling for the production of the Papers. •
Mr. GRANT disapproved of the Expedition to
Macao,: but was of opinion no good could arise
(Or m the ptoduetion of the Papers The conduct of
the Commander in. Chief had been, in his opinion,
most praise-worthY:
After a long reply. from Mr. PRENDERGAST, and
a few words from Mr. A. THORNTON, the question
.was put, when the Noes"seemed to predominate.
The Gallery was then cleared for a division,' but the
Tiouse did not
.divide, .the question being negatived
(as we.understand) without a division.
%VEST INDIA DOCK COMPANY.

On re-entering the Gallery, we found -Mr. BAR-
HAM In possession'. of the House,. calling their at-
Mention to the circumstance of the West India Dock
Company dividing a clear:lo per cent nn their 'capi-
tal, without thence making any dedwEtion• for the
property tax. He intended at that time to submit a
resolution to the,ftouse on the subject, whiclihe had
it in contemplation to folloliv op by a Bill. The
Honourable Gentleman then moved as a resole-
tion -

" That it the opinion of this House, that the %Vest India
Dock Company, in dividing on their capital a clear ro per
cent. profit, without previously deducting.a due propottpn
for the property tax, exceed the extreme rate of interest al-
lowed by the./161,0f the 39th of his preknt Majesty."

14Ii. FitatqaT did not approve of the resolution.
The A6l of the 39th gaye the Company a-free profit
of ten per cent. making no condition wiih respell
to the tricoine Tax, which did not -then exist.

Every • new tax on West India produce, made the
risk of the dividend's not amounting to so
greater than befdre.. There was no doubt but the
full taxes were paid on the whole profits of the Com-
pany. If, in :the Income Tax, there had been a
clause, making it imperative on the Company to de-
dua the Property Tax from the dividend of each
Share-holder, he would ask if the West India Dock
Company would not have a case to 'submit to the
House claiming same amelioration. • They would
have said, "We have saved the Public annually
400,0001. and paid 150,0001 to the Revenue of the
Country, if then by wise management we still
make such a dividend, ought we to be subjeded to
the operation of the Aat ?" He concluded by mov-
ing, as an amendment, That the Debate •should be,
adjourned to that day six months.

Mr. BARING thought the subjeet should be fol-
lowed; up either in the manner his Hon. Friend had
proposed, orin some other which might appear more
eligible to the House. The -opinion of the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman opposite would doubtless
be anxiously looked to by the House as to the pos-
sibility of setting the question to te,t in a court of
law. If a better way of proceeding were pointed
out by Gentlemen- on the other side of the House,
he should bow fo their decision; but if they did
not do so, he should vote for the resolution.

Mr. MANNING admitted that the Company had a
right to their to per cent. but -out of -that they
were bound to pay the Property tax, as every other-
subject did, from whatever funds his income might
arise. instead of this, they had paid the Property
Tax out of the Reversionary Fund, which was in-
tended by the Act to lessen the rates on West India
produce. -Upon the whole, it appeared.they had
misconstrued the Act. If they were to depute some
peison.to make a declaration of their being disposed
to submit to the operation of the act, further pro-
ceedings 'would be unnecessary. He should support
the motion.

Mr. HUGHAN opposed the resolution. '

The_ ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, the Company
had a right to 4tlch profits from the 'Public as would
make up:a diVidend of ip per cent.; but, when,
their profits exceeded that, the residue was to be
applied'tothe public service. • Wishing well, as he
did, to the Company, of which no one bad spoken
too higely, he thought they should be called upon
to declare 'what would be their condua
.in future.
If' they would not •submit, the pu14.7 had a remedy,
though to apply-it might be troublesome.—From
the construction be put upon the ad; lie thought
the surplus, appropriated to the public ought not to
be burthened with the property tax .on their profits.
That. ought to be' paid out of the 10 per cent. they
divided on the capital. He. concluded 'by express,
ing his regret at finding himself unable in the pre-
sent instance to support the Company.
"Mr. • BARHAM, in reply, stated his readiness to
adopt that 'mode of proceeding most agreeable to the
House.. -

Mr. W. SMITH thought the advantagis, arising to
the country from the Company were incidental, and
that the income tax ought to be paid- on the itiper
cent, they divided on their capital,
- The SOLICITOR-GENEata.,spoke in praise of the
Company, but concurred with the Attorney-General
in his, construetion of the Act, as involving a ques-
tion of private right; he hoped the resolution would
be but a preparatory step leading to a measure on
which both Houses could give their ()Pinion and set
the•questiOn at rest.

Mr. J. SMITII descanted at length on the advan-
tages arising to the Public from the Company. He
had understood they had a right to share to per cent.
on their capital without any deduCtion for the Pro-
perty tax.

Mr. JouNsom expressed, his hope that no pro-
ceedings might be adopted by any resolution of the
House, but that the question should be tried in a
Court of Law.

11/Ir.-BARHA* said, that if the Company should
continue thus tO divide,. it would then be the duty
of the House to order an information to be entered
against them. ).
The CHANCELLOR Of the' EXCHEQUER was of
opinion, that it would not be inconvenient for the

House to_ express_ its sense .by a . resolution. It
would be extremely. difficult .to try the 'question in
any Way, and at the• same time keep the arrears out
of sight, which necessarily ethbraced the interests of
the West India Merchants. •

The question was then put, and the-amendment
was negatived. The original question was carried
without a division.

DUKE OF BRUNSWICK.

Mr. WHARTON brought up the Bill for enabling
his Majesty to grant an annuity to the Duke of
Bruliwiek. It was reacra first time, and ordered to
be read the. second time to-morrow.

He likewise brought in a Bill for granting addi-
tional annuities to discharge the Exchequer fund;
and a Bill far-bringing the duties.on Hawkers and
Pedlars under that of hackney-coachmen. They,
were both lead a first time, and ordered fo ra se-
cond reading to-morrow.

He then brought up Papers, relative and supple-
mentary to the Navy Estimates, pursuant to an
Order of the House. They were ordered to lie on
the table.

Mr, CROKER, pursuant to Order, brought up
copies of Dispatches between Lord Hawkesbury and
Mr. Villiers.—Ordered to lie on the table.

The House adjourned at Eleven_o!Clock.

FREI,CH PAPERS.

PARIS, Arum 20.—M. Detnoustiers, formerly
our Minister at Dresden, and who was late:y said to
have b, en nominated Plenipotentiary to the United
States of AmeriCa, set off from hence on the 20th
inst. for Moilaix, where be has been empowered
by his Imperial Majesty to treat-with Mr. Macken-
zie for an exchange of prisoners. Mr. Mai-Aterizie
is the cousin of an English writer whO has pub-
lished his travels, and whose work is highly es•-
Jeetned. He was Secretary to the Government in
India under Lord Wellesley.
The Grand Duke of Wurtzburgh, the Prince of
Swartzenburgh, Austrian Ambassador at Paris, and
the Count de Metternich, accompany their Majes-
ties in their excursion.
General IVlontbrun,-, who is to command the ca-
valry of Marshal Massena's army, sets off to-mor-
row for Bayonne.
Marshal Macdonald has set off for Barcelona; and
is tO assume the command of the French army in
Catalonia, in the rooin of Marshal Augereau, who
is obliged to go to take the waters on account of Iris
ill health. •

MAX 'i.-L-The Moniteur makes the following re-
fleEtions'on the debates_ in the House of Commons
upon the Expedition to Antwerp :
" We -resolved to publish the sequel of the dis-
cussions and the investigation relative to the Expe-
dition. to the Isle Of Waloheren, though the ques-
tion is already stale,, and no longer possesses any
great interest. But this investigation is a monument
of the ignorance of the English respecling those af-
fairs which most concern them. What ! no.plan of
Antwerp to be had in London ? What ! are they
ignorant of the situation of those dock-yards, from
which twelve sail of the line have been alreaiy
launched, and eighteen more are on the point of be-
:ing launched ? They know not that since July,
1803, when the Emperor visited Antwerp, six mil-
lions have been expended uPon the fortifications,
which were previously considerable ; and that the
left bank, and the Tate de Flaudre, were proteaed
by fortifications, so as to maintain the communica-
tion with France, and covered by an inundation to
the extent of 2000 toises.

" The English truly lay out their money to very
little purpose. Lord Chatham knew nothing of the
fOrtifications of Antwerp, but from the masons who
had worked there. Europe and France will see
with astonishment the extent of the ignorance of
the English. , They know not whether Cadsand be
an island. They are ignorant that -the channel
which separated Cadsand from the Continent has
been dry these five-and-twenty years, and that Cad-
sand is no longer an island. They know not that the
French squadrdn could place ►tself in safety either
above or below the fortifications of Antwerp. They
know not that forts Litlo and Liefenskoeck were
protected on the land side by inundations, and secure
from every attack, and on the side of the river by 80
pieces of ordnance, which from the right and left
supported the line of the gun-boats and the booms
in the passage. -

" It would be curious to Contrast with this
ranee the detailed informations which the Topogra-
phic Cabinet of France possesses with regard to the
coasts of England, and what the English Were doing
there in 1805. Observations on the number of bat•
teriei, their strength, the number of the workmen,
the quantities of troops, the posts from' which re-
sistance might be expeded, those that could not be
defended, the profiles of the works, &C. were daily
arriving at the Topographic Cabinet of France.
" Atter this, it Will not excite astonishment, that
the English knew not that tlierC were 12,000 troops
at Boulogne, who became disposable from the instant
that the expedition stumbled .Upon another point ;
and that the National Guards alone were fully sta-
cient, as soon as this point was found not to be ,me-
naced; that the Senator General Rampon command-.
ed, at St. Omer, a chassitur corps of- picked National
Guards, regimented these three years, and consisting
of 12,000 men ; that the General of Division Cham-
berlan commanded, at Louvaine, a camp of eight
battalions of the line ; that the regiments of Con
scripts, workmen at Antwerp, 'formed more than
13000 men under arms; that the fortresses in Flan-
ders contained the depots of 60 regiments, 15 of
them being cavalry-; and finally that the King of
Holland had 12,000 men under arms, there being
only, beyond his territory, four regiments towatch
Hanover.

" It is 'surprising to find the English so little ac-
quainted with France as to suppose that an expedi-
tion landed upon her territory should compel her to
weaken the army she l,ad at Vienna..
• " The result of the expedition to the Scheldt has
proved, and all Europe, which is in constant corn-
Inunication with France, knew before-hand, .that a
debarkation of 40,000 English on our coasts would
.not create any diversion, but only .occasion the for-
mation of new armies."

Count Dorsenne, General of Division, and Corn-
mandant of Oat Fool Orenadiets of the Imperial
Guard, sets oft this day for Burgos, where he will

assume the chief command of the provinc(;s of 016
Castile, Arragon, and Bisc-ay.
We may turin an opinion how anxious the Engrill
are for peace, acid how lunch th-y .teel ii e want
it, by the sudden and :extraordinary
of their
funds, upon the first intell„;ence of -au exchange Qt‘.
prisoners. ' They never rose highereven in time 0-
peace.

• It is affirmed, that their Majesties- w;11 return
from Antwerp by Ghent, Burgos, B.dulogne, Die!)Pe'
Havre,_and•Rouen, and arrive in Paris before the
oth inst.•

Marshal Mastena' pass?d throlgh Tours on 016
Gth ult. at eight in the morning, on his way r°
Spain. ,

VIENNA, APRIL report is in cir, ulrelif4rh
on the authority of letters received by certain Glf-;6.
merchants, that there have been disturbances at'
Constantinople ; that-some bloody scenes have boll'
occasioned by the English party, and that our Inter'
nuncio, M. de Sturrner, was exposed to the great's
dangers. We are in impatient expectation of all'
-theistic intelligence.
BAYONNE, APRIL 23.—We learn that the sir'''e
of Cadiz has commenced, and that the French ar"
tillery already plays upon a part of the city.
The English are in expectation of being !ell(
speedily attacked in PUrtuguese Estremadura:
thousand Portuguese destined for _Sicily, have re—
ceived counter-orders, and are still upon the Tagtl.s;
but,- as a compensation for this disappointmenti tit
remainder of the plate belonging to the convects,
has been. shipped off for England.
PARIS, MAY I.—lt is said that the city of Or'
intends offering her Majesty the Empress a toilette
of the value of 60,000 francs.
It is Supposed that 'their Majesties will extend (belt
tour to Breda and Bois-le-Duc,• where they will be
met by the King of Holland. His Majesty the hijug
of Westph4ia aucoinpanies them.
Their Majesties reached Cambray at three o'clocl4
on the usth. At eight they made theirs epeal:4llc4e
in the .balcony, amidst the shouts of the inhabitant.s
who crowded the parade, and witnessed a proccssl
o( carefilled with young females elegantly dressed'
According to an aircient usage, this procession at-
ways takes place in the town of Cambray when (be
Sovereign pays it a visit, Their Majesties atte'
wards gave audience to the- civil and military aut
rides.

A letter from Florence says, that (113 Bishops
the Grand Duchy have ordered the Curates and Pas.
tors of their dioceses to cultivate upon e‘ery occ.a"
sion,.in their discourses, that respea and obediencd
which subjeas owe to their sovereignos,
ANTWERP, APRIL 28.—The arrival of their Ma'
jesties is fixed for the 30th. The Duke of Iteggi°
and General Bertrand, one of the Emperor's Aides'
de-camp, have arrived, and also ,the equipage of tlt
Prince of Wagram. . -
A handsome cutter has been built here, in Whicil
-his Majesty the Emperor it is said, go down
'Flushing. Four of the seven ships which were 1°1"
up for the winter in the canal of ltuppel, are return"
lug opposite to this city, and also two others that
Were stationed off They are all completely
armed, and newly painted. The fleet of the Sehel"
is working up the river, on its way here. It will
play its colours, and illuminate on the arrival °
their Majesties.

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