The Sun.
London, England, 1826-02-17 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS

The Sheriffs of London presented a petition front the Lord
Mayor, Aldermen, Sheriffs, and Common Council asserobled,
praying for an advance of 42,000/. for the further widening the
foot and carriage-ways of the New London-bridge ; and for
such other sums as might be necessary for carrying into effect
the said purpose.
The Sheriffs again appeared with a petition front the Lord
Mayor and Court of Aldermen, which Mr. Alderman WOOD,.
in presenting, took occasion to observe, that something had
been imputed to him which he never had spoken. In the de.
bate last night, it was stud that he bad made some allusions to
the Court Of Aldermen relative to a sum of 111,000/. Exchequer
Bills. Now he (the .worthy Alderman) being quite aware that
he had not alluded to the subject at all, had taken the trouble
to look into the newspapers to find if he had been so misrepre.
rented, but he could not find in all the papers a single allwAin
to the subject ; he therefore_..
The SPEAKER was sorry to interrupt the worthy Abler.
man, but really he could not perceive the connexion that ex-
isted between the mistatement complained of and the yeti.
lion which he (Alderman Wood) was about to present ; per,
haps the worthy Altlennan would explain the connexion.
There was a petition before the House, and it was not usual
for gentlemen to introduce. extraneous matter while a petition
wayso pending. Misstatements might occur out of doors,
but
Gentlemenhowever
all ‘ they letillillietgshStp.eihtei ordinary usage had
Speaker) from .intertering.
perceive the manifest im-
h observations while the house
iiot
n tw fanny unpleasantttopn r)
eulsct t
(,
The petition which related to a bridge in some part of Mid-
dlesex, was then brought up and referred to a COMMittee.
propriety
perrielgtylig ei of
i iinnd pulrgiviant business. ge
Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD presented a petition from the
Governor and Directors of the Hibernian Joint Stock Bank
Company, praying to amend an act relating thereto.
Petitions( were presented from Braintree, Thaxted, and other
places in Esiex, praying for the abolition of slavery. They
were severally ordered to lie on the table, and be printed.
Mr. CUR'i'EIS presented a petition from Alfrtston, in Sus.
*ex, against the present state of the slave trade.—Ordered to
lie on the table, and be printed.
Mr. CITRWEN presented a petition from Cockermouth, for
the abolition of slavery.
Lord GEORGE LENNOX presented similar petitions from
Aberistwith and Chepstow.
Sir THOMAS BARING presented a petition to the
same effect, from the Mayor anti Corporation of Chipping-
Wy cos n b..
Lord NUGENT bore his testimony to the high respectabi-
lity of the petitioners.
Lord A ',THORP presented a petition for the abolition of
slavery, from a parish in the county of Northampton.
Mr. LAWl.l.NpreSented a similar petition Alan one of the
hundreds in Warwickshire.

Lord (11:',0. bENN Oi presented a petition to the same
effect from Chichester.
the ill r.
feelingl t )YwNht Rh congratulatedtlpt e
evhaoileetl ptielteitenionunftorr thecountry
gradual abolition of slavery, and he strongly hoped that int.
anediate steps would at all events be taken to ameliorate the
condition of the slaves now employed in the colonies.
The petion was then laid on the table.
prevailed to
the quantity, of corn and meal exported from Ireland during
On the motion of Mr. CURIVIIp4, accounts were ordered of
exported from thence within the same period.
the last 110 years; also the number of cattle, horses, and sheep,
Mr. DIYODALE presented a petition from a parish in War..
wickshire, fur an alteration in the corn laws; and One from the
riband-weavers of A therstone against the foreign silk bill.
Mr. lIROGDEN presented a petition from the leather
dressers and glore makers of Didgelly, in Merionethshire,
against the introduction of for gloves.
petion from the
Mr. LA WLE V presented a petition from Vlcester, for the
adoption of a Apt:ether mode of collecting entail debts.
I.7l:6B::::llt7teentiaeseciaorgeinlanattosuirweleatrilf4.o.l_B6ll:lle-i
owners and occupiers of land in the woatern division of the
county of StiriseX, against any alteradon in the existing Corn
dpl :hi
viiristourd.ntaiii
vse(l:llai'wCiies
hutst;tailittd;otolrintias
ttstl:ll4iierieheti;iNeint:lei.t)raiXsonno
of
of all sums of money paid Into the Exchequer by the Post
office, in pursuance of the Act of the alith of George 111.,
which authorized an utlVance of PO 000/ for building
. , the
Menai-brldge.
Accounts were ordered of the quantity of raw and thrown

silk imported during the last year into Great Britain. distin
guishing the countries from which it came, and all monies re-
ceived thereupon at the Custom Howe. Also art account of
the quantity of other than manufactured silk exported from
Great Britain, during the &Me period, distinguitthing the
countriesit wig scut to.

STAMPS ON NOTtEI.
On the motion of Lord Fotx.EaTuitiz, accounts were
dered of the amount of stamps upon inland bills of etchaage;
from the year 180(1 to the year 1825 inclusive.
On the motion of Mr. CALOtArT, a copy of the order issued
to prohibit the further stamping of country Bank.notes undet
Lit, was directed to be produced. He understood that no record
of the full details of these notes was kept; but he hoped that if
any light would be thrown front the Stamp-office on. the parti=
Mar amount of the classes of small notes specifically, it would
at the same time be communicated.

The CIIANCEI4I.OII of theExetiEQuEß took bionic
to himself for not earlier presenting a copy of the order alluded
to. He had not the loot objection to the production of all posh
sible information from the office.

IRISH CHURCH AND PARISH RATES.
sir JOHN NEWPORT had. in the last Session drawn the
attention at the House to the mode in which the Parish and
! Church Rates had been collected in .Ireland. A measure on this
stab.icat,,ethiell igineted In that House to Correct the evils of
the system, he was sorry to see, had' been stripped or every
chtuae in the other House,: which could controul the existing
abuses in the collection of parish rates in Ireland. Salaries
nes;ur, by possibility, contemplated, had been given to Church
officers, so as, in fact, to increase the rates. The House would
be surprised to learn .that .the summary mode of appealing
against overcharges for rates was entirely annitted in the Bill.
The rate of the parish clerk's salary itad been proposed to be
limited to ten pounds, whereas the average rate in most
towns amounted to twenty pounds. In One place a house
had been built for the clerk, and another fOr the sexton, at anexpence of 4301. out of the parish rates. This, it should be
recollected, was mostly paid by Roman Catholics. Even
charges were made on those persons for a throne for the Bishop
a dress suit for him, besides his canonicals. Parish servants of
various kinds were charged against the parishioners, whether'
Catholics or Protestanta, at 201. or even 301. a year. Similar
charges were made for female servants to attend on the congres
gation. In one instance they voted 1431. to the clergyman fig
minor services, as lecturer and teacher. where the regular salary
was not • more than 1201. a year. This was so great a depar-
ture from the objects of the Bill which had gone through
their House, and so contrary to the spirit which prompted
the measure, that he thought it was necessary the !louse
should mark its sense of the extreme impropriety and .neglis
gt'nce in the enactments of this 11111 by a resolution which he
should read at the conclusion of his speech. fie was the more
the Irish
(70dvnecrettilmteonftn make this
and also application
to the
11111::nis.el.ibeet=en in his
place, expressed a determination to regulate the imposition of
the Church rates according to a fixed and invariable rule
throughout all the parishes in Ireland, so as that they should
all have it common standard by which they might be regulated.
He must confess he felt pleasure in admitting, fin the sake of his
Protestant fellow countrymen in some parishes in Irelend, that
there were some congregations of Protestants who were perfect..
ly indignant at the practice, and had insisted on exempting the
Catholic part of the parish from any part of the expence of
maimaining either the Clerk or the Sexton. And in some in..
stances the Clergyman -himself had insisted on hearing the ex-
pence out of his own limited stipend of the Sacramental bread
and Wine.. The lion. Batonet concluded his Speech by Ivey.,
lug its a Resolution, " That from detailed returns which had
been laid oa the table of the House, it appeared that large
sews of money were levied on account of Church Rates which
were not warranted, and' that salaries were granted thereout
to Parish Officers, contrary to and prohibited by Statute it.
gulation."
Lord ALTHOR PE rose to second the motion. It had been
said by the Right lion. Gentleman last year, that it was the
the
ile'ettsn'tßll gmtrarnalli.nueMs "14% nowthirdvile
ment should stave made up its mind as to its intentions.- and
that the House should be trails acquainted with them. What
the Right Hon. Gentleman might have to propose, possibly was
very excellent ; but there might be aomething suggested try
other Members, which would be still more desirable. lie should
therefore bee the Right Hon. Oentleman to state, before he
made his objections to the motion, what were the measures of
relief resolved on by the Irish Government for ameliorating the
condition of that country.
.51r. GOULBURN said, before be should enter into the
• reasons for his opposition to the present motion, he should ene
ter into a rather detailed consideration of the different heads of
recommendation contained in the Report of the Committee
which sat on this subject. The first recommendation he should
have no occasion to observe on, further than to state his entire
' satisfaction, and that of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, with
the salutary operation of the uwasure founded on the recommen-
dation of the arrangettent for the composition Of Tithes in Ire-
land. So salutary and satisfactory had that been found by the
•public, that last year there were 269 .comporitions agreed on,
while in the present there were not less chum 076 co:1100d
ill, forming one-fourth of the whole parishes of Ireland.
Nor were the effects of these compositions confined to these
parishes alone, but they had extended themselves benefici-
ally through other parishes, wo as to occasion an amicable
adjustment of tithe questions amongst themselves and the
improprintors. A circumstance resulting from this fact was
worthy of mention, as .a proof its tendency to improve the con-
dition of the people and secure the public peace. It was the
gtowth or feelings of good will manit'ested by the result of the
last Quarter Sessions for the county of Cork, where it wry
found this attention in the law had diminished the causes fulle
one half of their former number.—( Hear l)—The constitution
of the Manor Courts had next occupied his attention and that oe
the Lord Lieutenant, and a remedial measure would be accords
ingly submitted to the House. this Session on the subject. lie
anottld SW have a Bill to propose for the
.correction of abosea
in a more effectual service of civil process in Ireland.--(flear i)
and another on the subject of corporate rights. Of the nee
cessity of a Bill for regulating the right to sit as Grand Jurors.
he was equally convinced. but there were diflicolties which
stood in the way which rendered it less likely lie should be so
easily or early able to accomplish this as other objects he had
alluded to. As to the Irish law of lanollord and Tentmt, if
was intended to introduce a Bill to amend that of last Session
on this head, taking care not to injure the rights. of .parties.
Ile lastly should advert to the subject oi'. Church Rates, which
he knew was a popular topic. ft laid not cheeped the head of
the Irish Government, mind it was deemed desirable that a Bill
should be introduced for the consolidation of all the laws as to
the Chusch Rates, and the formation-of varietioin that coon.
try. It was his intention to introduce Otis Bill to the Muse it.,4
• soon as it had been sufficiently slowed and examined. fl, there,►
fore, there were any difibrencebetween him and the Right Hon.
Baronet, he trusted he would see it as merely one, of form,
rather titan of substance. last Session,. too, he had its tar as
'amiable lent the Hon. Bart. all his assistance to remedy the real
evil of the 'triton in fashion in Ireland, and this'', he trusted, was
n proof dins sincere disposition to co-operate in the suppression
of abuses which he believed in Ireland grew principally out ofthe
unbusinesslike and negligent way in which all bodies of weft in
that country treated their own affitirs- who met at vestries and
parish meetings. There was indeed often no intention of doing
an Act of injustice, or displaying partiality in those instances
which had been alluded to by the Right Hon. Baronet, Who, if
he had examined the 'Returns with as much care as he had been
obliged to do, would have found in the items to which parish
rates were applied a considerable sum appropriated to the
building or repairinti of a Catholic Chapel, or to the assistance
of a parish priest. there was then no ground to charge thenm
generally with such a feeling as might be deduced to be their.
motive, from having beard the Speech of the Right liOn.
Baronet. It was now particularly desirable that a remedy
should be devised by the introduction of a valid anti ynbst:Th.
tiV, measure; and if the Right lion, liarnnet would consent
to withdraw his motion, he would take the liberty isi substi-
tuting what would equally answer all :purposes—a notice of
motion for leave to Wing in a Bill Which would rth:. he
hoped, the whole extent of the evil.. It would be fur more
agreetible to himself to act in perket accordance with the Right
lion. Baronet, if he would permit hint to do, sti. by withdraw.
ing his resolution.
Ovnticnnt's intention to do with • reference to the law ai
Sir JOHN NEWPORT Asked WhAt . was the Its:thistf:::::
stood in Imbed respecting the Sheriff:
Mr. 001J11112101 repliesj, that it was his intention, as soon
as he was imase,,,,a of the ii)foriliation which was ptottiked
*Wet' to sebtnit something
Sir NEWPORT fuelled, that he considered it his duty
to press the reeidution, whirl; he thought might be entered on
twhoetlir4cloinuisltelettatitrilothii!

4

.tl°-7

ilhe hum& of the House, In perfect consonance with the
sotiee the Right Hon. Gentleman was about to give. He would
.not therefore consent to withdraw his resolution to make room
for the notice of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
81r ROBERT 1111111418,observed, that In a great many In.
stances some parts of the rotes were appropriated to the benefit
of the Catholic part of the parish. la the ease. of the parish of
Moate, with which he was acqainted, the whole rate only
amounted to 43/, and the first item was 101. appropriated to the I
niaintenance of the Roman Catholic Cliapele the second, 101.
for the Presbyterian Meeting louse. The first item continued
to form is part of the parish rates for above five years, so ,that
in this instance it was clear the Protestant part of the parish
Wrevontribtiting gratuitously tit the comfort and coovenienee of j
eethoiicsand Dieeenters,and the maintenunceof a rival Church.
The Hon., Baronet continued to enumerate various, parishes in
Which a' eorceidetithie proportion'of the'sums, levied as Church.
retem, ha 1. been Appropriated-to the purposes of Roman Ca-
'` belie .education or Worehip, and if it would not have been too
.wevere a tux upon the patience of the House, be could have gone,
on much !timer .to produce instances-in proof of the liberality
.and true catholic lulling, which governed the application of
rtisteelands, On a former occasion, the Bight lion. Baronet
5' '4440004 kid Untitled to a special act of litrentlity, as forming
an eXeeptien to the er,eneral temper of the Protestant (lentry of
Ireleed, 'with regent to Mince) Catholic worship. This act of
ertneifieettee ho could assure the. Right Hon, Baronet was not
euliceey ; he wouldethention the liberality manifested by Lord
Cretivize and his family, as even eurpaseing that of the instance
ti.tlieded to, by the Bight Honourable Baronet. If agitators
did. net put it into their beads, that they ought to quarrel,
helirculy,believett that the Protestants and Catholics of Ireland
stieuld meet together in vestry in perfeet, hartnony.—He had
„en return non-is a most reepeetable minieter of a parish,
whiehetated that the number of parishioners usually assembled
in lietet;t rsir e m
e from sixty to a hundred, that he had regularly
it i#ld'peso vestrree e great utter of veers, but 110 ae.
i; oura ot t reerctive number of :etenhesami Pititestante bad
lieen takett, because a difference of opinion between them
bed lever existed. The It iglu Berunet lout spoken of
the t!iturelt times ,as eeheavy garden upon the land owners of
Ireland ; now the fact was that he hail never seen a rate above
•t (petit. pet aere; notihink it therefore amounted to
well is erievenceees to call for the inte,sposition of the Legisla.
tore. lie knew, on the other hand, an instance its which rid.
per acre had been levied for the purpose of building a Catholic
Chapel, us a parieh where the regular Church hate was no
;Jere that) lid. The details of Ihe report, were no doubt cor-
rect, but the. inference attempted to he drawn from them was
list erroneous. Tice tendency of the resolutions wss to
.grade the Church Estsblishment, and he should therefore give
it his decided opposition.
Sir 11. Pit UN b' IA I did not rise with the hope of being able
,to add any thing to what had been already said on the subject
the Itesolonons. There were however some important sub-
jeets connected with Ireland, on which be. would take that
I.stirtntaty of soliciting ieformation, lie thought, and it was
p.t, merely his own opinion, but that of :all the persons most
.competent to form n judgment upon the subject, that the revi.
esion 'if the Irish Magieerticy which had taken place, had not
.keen carried so far as the welfare of the public required. The
eeechilehment of Petty Sections had been, productive of great,
benefit, and he felt anxious for sortie provision to secure the
tierntanency of that useful inetinnittn. The county government
of feel:mil was in a state which loudly called for improvement,
lie had some years ego, when the Constabulary Bill was be.
fete! the How, suggested the expediency ot appointing a
Lerd Lieutenant in each Cenety, agreeably to the practice
in England. .The late Lord Londonderry had diets promised
ti -•t the suggestion should be consitleted. Ile had no doubt
that the metoure would be most beneficial,, and he trusted that
it would he now thought worthy of the serious deliberation of
Governtnent. The Corporation 111agistracy and the Courts of
Gel:wit-ewe greatly required reformation. Ile bad been inform.
ea! one of the recommendinions of the outu of
L4.v lequiry wits the creation of a new office in each county for
the issue of webs. lie trusted that this recommendation would
be received with great caution. lie did not see the least ne.
cceetity for each a change, and he thought the power of issuing
writs ought to be continued in the helots of die Sheriff. He
trusted thet reetriction would be imposed upon the sub,
I,,eting of lend, And upon the abuses of distress ; and also, that
itl".er ;don would be made in die present method of bringing
eeeeeeems, which wtorso inefficacious as frequently to defeat
tne rem,ely of the landlord. lie would beg leave particularly .
t I!.quiv., whether it were intended to give to Ireland the be.
that excellent law for tile. regulation of Juries, by
site Bight lion. Gentleman opposite had acquired so
cleiar upon the gratitude of lea)gland. He' would pot
a , question with respeekto the new; Bankruptliaws.
, eeen the abjure of einvernment to assimilute the trade lA.
, A:oolga.to tae an obvious peopriety in
gu is same liattreta Laws to both.
;IduNKETT was .clieptieed to give, the Right Hon.
• , every inforniation in Ins power. With respect .to tire
laws, he Itad consulted with the courts in 'relent!,
ee, karilatWilnes!glige9 tiMatilirtr§;
As to the hill for regulating juries in this country,
. ,) intreilueed in the last cession, and the intro-
, , . , had 'lone r,a Math credit to his Right no..
. , fee* Viol), he thought it would not
.
it upplicable to !IC:lend. It would be
, ee, , the basis of that Bill onedstuul of re.
cures:, teach e by overerters .of the pour and church,
• , Now, in leilend they liatrtio overseers of the poitte'
• • ej: ri they Would long tiontinne' without them--
:) -and as to the rieorne mode by churchwardens,
idese• diet the lionottrable Baronet hintselr Would not
t!,5; to r.,5t remits of jurors made by men holdingi, an office
whith Roman Cittleilice were ea-eluded. 'litre were
tt ee. pens of the detaile of the Bill which he also thought
N!Atill Inepplleable CO IMatal at present. ft woulsl theret4e
he better to watch the operation of the Bill here, and then etc:
what pert' of it could he muesli: applicable to Irelatel. On the
'object of the eeihruis nettle in the Magistracy, the lion. Barn.:
tee had nos suggested tiny thing, nor Was he (Mr. Plunkett>
pr;•parod to say that any OeW measure. seee in the contempla.
turn of ,the Irish Government. Since that reformation had
been made, he. haul not heard any complaints 1)11 the inljeet,
which on inquiry proved to be well.thutided. There was one
eintiplelet utatic of the conduct. of a Learned Lord, in whose
lepartne.nt the appointment of magistrates rested, that. he
bail neglected to attend to a very serious charge agatnNt a Ma.:
eietrate that charge, it was Said, was, that the Magistrate haul
been guilty of the most oppres4ive anSilleeeti conduct—that the
na.ies of the parties Were given, hut that no iniptiry was Made,
and that the Magifttrate was continued in the (.3enunission;
Nol the rticts of die eme Were, thet an inquiry hail he
*dotted into theeontlect t( the Magistrate, and that the wbele
charge from oegninont to end was nitogether without founda_
tion.—(llo4r, beer t).— tie haul ieltxted this one inecatice for
the 1)1,14)00 or shoWinee the light gretind on which ciiiirgett
respeeting the IVia,e,'istracy of Ireland were put forth. 11,2
also would take this opportunity of iliforniing the !honourable
Baronet, that he Intel at present under his consideration at bill
for extending to behind some of ill!! most material provisions
contained in ,he very it' iluable act for amending the bankrupt
laws tit 4igletni, which was passed last session. It would,
or course, require seas considerable alterations to render 'lt,
applicable, to ; hitt after it had been modified, he had
no doubt lent that it world he rowel very servicettble for that
country.. The Right lion. Moldier also mutated that he wits
preparing a bill relating to the laiv of Landlord and `!tenant
In Ireland, teethe excellent bill which prevailed in Bug-
land net the like mtbjeet, and which bill would, he conceived,
remedy several abuses, and espeeially the one of double tlis.
'tress. In hie opinien the returns which had been read by the,
Hon. 'Member for Dundalk, clearly proved that. there was nu
want of liberality on the part of the Protesto.nes or JrciAmi
to-
Wards the Catito)ics of that c esiitry ; lie cocceived therefore that
that the only purpteet whirl : Hon. Baronet could answer by
pressing hi-, e: ; !tee. t mid be, Bait of evincing anger
Lir the tet,e. •• •:, a rowdy lust the future. The
,• • , •• stilt as to the amount of the, rates
which s., r.. e. the moiler in which they were
levied ; •'''collenoti., that If any rates were
isle_
gully ley H proper tellmealle that country. 14)
acs:.., • ehlreseedfor a remedy, if the appli.
cation were i•

i%lr. ABEft( •' , , 1: wi'slwtl to inakt, a few °biter.
Nitti,os on 14111..1- ; . ;! Hon. and Leamed
man' ;• : Oet, , 1 the House that be purpoaed
• 1.• ~,d by extending the statute
, ;;• . :;; •.; • nankrupt Laws here to that
. • .; !.? )did not moan to say that that
„•,, , ; provisions, btu he beliuved
timie who praised it nub,: , • the numbers of the, profvssion
to which be had the I:6hour bCI wit; and who had IliOst
fitad by it. It had hten. time lauded, and for a 'similar
by the Coluis4i.uperh ef liankropto; but he felt it Ilia
duty to say, that' he c0nd.A...r,,,1 this cmu;tment much' more cal.
etdatcti to Cat se taselc:o. t a • ban to promote the interests
,c ow 1 • have ;•ri At in come under let ope,
.0;3,1 that no notice had
.*„ ;:f`l4-itIV remedy the defects
1.01•:ich had in s.• t••,,-.t ; that statute. 111, did consider
t,k Lion « nevtlroised by the iti,flit lion. and
.I,„:,tmed ;, .- • . the Jury.bill, into Ireland—
viz, that awn,.
04 the poor in 'that country—
• • • '„ •
a, ,01 !srtat, t, no rittes,oly that tol4 Meniotre
e,,t! , t Ireland its precisely the same
Way that it • ;al; -1.• in 'England : there could be
Dr: o.o:tsztiOn tO cor.ft:rri..4.; Or, :f ,i;,l what was good in that
though it might ii:l,,•-•• flow through other channels.
"Jr. haw 's, to (M'lt:inling the Jury-
ISll
twhi•:ll he bad had the,hono I,tr to Lai;; forward tor this country)

7a.:;

to Ireland. It was not nacessery that it Should in every yard-
cular follow closely and agree with the-Bill for England. In-
deed, he did not mean to say that that Bill was absolutely per-
fect, for, probably the working of an assizes would euggest such
alteridittein that enactment as to cause a considerable improve-
ment treit. In his opinion it would be extremely geneficial for
Ireland, if some officers were- appointed there to Correspond
with our Lord Lieutenants. The Irish had at present an idea
that the Government there was some mysterious thing beyond
their comprebensior. ; whereas, were there some subordinate au-
thorities there, the people would become more familiarixed with
the Government, which .would have a very beneficial effect. It
might not, indeed, be quite so easy tamed with these officers in
Ireland as in England, on account ,of the bitter being the sent
of the Legislature, and the consequent absence from Ireland of
those who were best fitted for such situations ; but still he
trusted that by degrees this object might he efl'ected. He pur-
posed .proposing that the Bill for the consolidation of the laws
relating to theft should also be extended to Ireland. The night
Hon. Gentleman concluded by observing, that the Hon. Bart.
might, by insisting on putting his resolution to the vote, record
his own individual sentiments on this subject, but in other re-
spects hec, thought it would be a much more advisable proceed-
ing to follow the course recommended by the amendment.
-Mr. OltArl'AN advised the Hon. ilitronet to withdraw •his.
resolution, although he admitted that there had been some
levies of a most extraordinary nature. In his opinion, what •
would be moat advantageous for Ireland would be. to devise
some plan for the education of the peasantret of that country.
—lle himself had had the honour of proposing a measure fit r
thin purpose to the House, and lie was happy to hear a Noble
Lou! in the other House recently approve of that measure ; and
he thought that lion. Gentlemen here ought to be friendly to
any plan which would render the lower classes of Ireland more
intelligent, and thereby prevent their emigrating in such num.
berm to this country as to create such serious additions ta the
poor rates.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON was glad that the lion. Member
for the- county of Wicklow hail directed the attention of the
House to the devising of Jenne plan for educating the poorer
classes of Ireland ; for it' was truly deplorable to behold the
wretched condition of the peasantry in the south and western
' parts of that country. lie did not, indeed, wish the poor laws
of England to be extended to Ireland. flu concluded by coin-
' gieing the Hon. Illember for WatertOrd, to whose indefatigable
and patriotic exertions he conceived Ireland owed almost all
the benefieial eeuctinents she had received at the halide of the
Legislature.
Mr. MONCK was of opinion that this subject deserved the
serious consideration of Parliament, and that a Committee ought
to be appoihted to examine into the details of It.
Mr. It. MARTIN gave his entire assent to the proposition
which had been itubmited to the Howie by the Hun. Baronet.—
Ile was of opinion that nothing would create so much dissatis-
faction in 'rebind as the circumetance of its being negatived.--
He thought that the lion. Baronet's resolution would serve well
for the preamble of the bill which the Right Hon. Gentleman
had proposed to introduce. He conceived that it would be
itn-
posstble to introduce into Ireland a system of poor laws similar
to that now existing in England. Something however must be
Clone for the poor of Ireland ; anti the task of providing some
legislative measure for their relief could be undertaken by no.
body better than the son of the lute Henry Grattan. It that
Ilonoorable Member would introduce a bill to effect to desir-
able u consummation, he (Mr. Martin) for one would undertake
to support it.
Alter a few observations front Mr. SPRING Meg,
Sir JOHN NEW PORT rose to reply. Ile could not, he
said, accede to the suggestion of withdrawing his resolution,
because he had been so long a Member of Parliament as to
have learnt the utility of putting it ou the journals. Years
atter reeolutions had been negatived, he had seen them adopted
by Government, and Bills brought in pursuant to their tenor.
He should therefore adhere to Its original intention of placing
his resolution on the journals. Nothing, he could assure the
House, was further from his intention than to throw any impu-
tation by it on the Government of Ireland. He repelled with
considerable warmth to the insinuation of his being hostile to
the church establishment of that country, and contended that
he hed not selected, tet he bad been charged with selecting,
particular parts of the returns presented to Parliament for invie
dious objects. In conclusion, he again lepeated that the taxes
raised by this system bad been diverted prom their legitinutte
objects, owing to the want of a direct and proper coatroul over
them.

After a few words, by way of explanation, from Sir It. Ire-
ants :star ?Alt. FT I 2:(7, Au), the resolutiuu was nega-
that". l'he amendment was then pt.t mei carried, antl leave I
was givtu to bring in a llill'for coneulidating church-rates in
ISlr. S. RICE, rafter a few obeervations reepecting the evils
to which tile ereeent :system of collecting tolls and customs in
Ireland gave rise, moved, Oa the purpose of remedying those
evils) that eu humble address be, preeenttel to his Ildessestq,
praying' that he would be graoously pleasted to order it commie-
sion for inquiring into the amount of till tolls and customs levied
in felts, warksas..and tolonnete in leettoof
ter from lilt 1014 r mot with respect to the expediency of the
measure now proposed, he felt it necessary to state the grounds
of his opinion, iu artier to prevent any mieunderstanding re-
specting the nature of the opposition he should offer. Ile
could assure las non. Fritani thut he had no disposition to
undid:anent, syetuttl in shish abuses might he Shown to exist;
nod he wee rcatly so nib it that if they were fully and fairly
brottolit berm the /louse, and Foul' at the same time given of
the wadi tiudey or tlic 11,1vo to:prevent or to ptioish those abuses,
tlirre would ban() pltitelti6ll as to tile triode in which rteirese
should be afforatel. Utile Hon. Friend would beareteetimoily
ilea when he (Mr. Iticee had mentioned this subject a
the folehinitse or the present ,Steittioo, ~he ltad inforened his
nee. krettel ilea it hed not escaped attention, and that the
only reestin 1. its 1:,ot bciriK Chet: cote:red 'spot), was the difh.
culty of peeeitling it emit:rectory remedy. In arguing this
question, tlisiefOre, it must i.e assumed by he one that If the
wide eintientitleti Or existed, the tiovermocot were indisposed
to retnetly them. :The subjeet,eves in itself' not one of a 'ample
nature. It would be remenehured that the greater part of the
tolls in )parker.' ;mil fairs were collected under patents hehl by
individulds. Ile MIS not prepared to delay that they might be,
and that they were, an obstruction to the commerce of the
country; bat tlibi obete uction, to slide extent as it reached,
was (olive:' ~. Bill it apply to Ireland alone? Was not the
setn(: system Feet kelt in every towti in this country where the
tolls were colleetetiseae toted of them were) under the authority
of letiyul patents? Within null' a mile of the spot in which
they Were sitting; was not :the mantis system in daily operation ?
The tells of Uoventsgartlensinarket were the property or one
noble individual, and it was notorious that their collectiou gave
rime to constarit, dieptitee. The effect of thteier intonate; were
felt perticularly by the lower classes of the people, who brought '
their commodities to market, and, as fur WI they went, were an
obstritetion ,to the trade of' the place. But. it did not follow
that Witl4 no retire:6l;or. MST evil which might arise. It
Witt' MK!, that tv.,411.np int ttoe of the House ha.it on u foroier octet-
goo poidted out tilitt MINNA M.S. one for, width remedy ought
to lie 411 A ; the groutal of that recommendation ep.
peered tb be chiefly rue at:count of the resistance which was
' offered to the paytuent of tolls, end the dieorders to which that
resistance gave rise. Ile would out, however, agree that this was
ground ter such a remedy as was, now proptate/I.
If this reeisiance were conlieed in Ireland to the payment of
tolls, then, indeed, some arguolt at might be raised upon it
but when it was tonna to prevail very generally, and when the
same reeietance was itared to the 'etymon it refits and of
tithes, and 1111 other linen which parties were entitled to receive,
and the same theatlers were the conisequence, he thought it
wan too much to conclude that the law was therefore deficient,
Ills own opittion, en the contrery, wae, that by application to
the legal remedies, tend by that alone, the evil could be got lid
nf. If gentlenten resid.mt mtheriteightsourlitiod of places where
mils were, illegally exacted would tin which lie took to be
the duty of such gentlemen, by letoling 11:cir advice mid assist-
fillet: to tiltper3oll3 by pointing out the mode of le-
gaily obtaining retiree:4, ;Mil, it raced Were, fly leading the Way
themselves, and makitig an example of $OllllO great °Kinder, '
there'svotild Wan be, sal 01111 Of the illegalitiee complained of,
and the existing
laws : ea, lit he tOtiod strong enough for allnecessary purposes.
The greitumt fatality wee afforded unties
Yha preeent Acts to persoloi whet .11441t0 Ctilliplain; the re.
clrees might be obtained before pesingle Justice of the Peace
and ulthttnhii o:4pr:of/err Ohleers• were in ineny instances
the parties hetereered in the receipt .of the difficulty,
too, had been, provided for Stswell by the
_finpeeitam of
heavy pecuniary fine on Justices denying redress, or refusing
to ;let, asp by an enartineot that all tcatusea relating to corporits
don righte ehould be sued out of the juriediction. Hut it' the
motitso of his nous Priend were: agreed to, it avoid isjihrel no
farther informatien then was already on the table of the House,
in the list of fees taken in -ell the towns in !relent', by any
other I-1ud0:4.4y. tioni that of the Justie.c of the peace. ity that
return, it appeared that there ivcre no less than 2,000 }intents
);ranting tolls, and that in each of them the articles, amounted
to tio or 00. It was obvious therelbre that to investigate this
mobject properly, the cotioniesieners ought to itessertain, item by
the legaluy of these toll's, and to .point not accurately
whether they Were receivd by the inithority of of
patent, or by the pectilier 'limit of things. 'rite imolai amount
of thew toile were eaiti to be 1,500,0001. or 1,000,11001. It
would be necessary to give compensation to the parties at ore-
sent entitipti to these t'il'ls; and be fOr one would never consent
to the tioverromem making any bargain so extensive its this
must necessarily be. For this reason, as well es on account of
the Herculean labour which most be imposed on the commis-
sinners, Without the prebehle tertoli of any adequate good,
lie ttmst decidedly oppose the motion. There WWI an-
other ground, and not, it less forcible one, on which that op-
poeition was founded. If this model) *ere agreed to, the int-

mediate consequence would be, .that the people of Ireland
would receive it as evidence that Parliament had decided ou
the general illegality of tolls, and there would not be a market
or fair in which the people would net set ap a general resist-
ance even to that part which might be admitted to be legal.
He he had been long enough in that- country to know how
easily erroneous opinion were adopted when they happened to
suit the notions of persons who were interested -in them. For
these reasons—and above all, because there was already in Ire-
land a disposition to put by the law, and to resort to extraordie
nary measures—he-was aver .e to granting the conanissien.,—!,..
lie was sure that nothing could produce a more lasting benefit
to that country than to exalt the legal tribunals in theaninds of
the people, and to teach them to look to them alenefer protec-
tion and redress on all occasions. Ile was nut disposed to resort
to'any extraordinary remedy, but if the present law was fount)
Inefficient, he would, upon the case being Made out, consent
to its being remedied.
air. D. BROWNE ridiculed the M
jideteof -appointing a a:-
od:wino upon such a subject. No good would result from the
proceeding. Commissions were perpetually being appointed to
inquire into nubjects connected with Ireland; the persons com-
posing which were very well paid for their labours; and it was
singular that their labours never were brought to a conclusioe.
Ile trusted, however, that if a commission should be appointed
on the present occasion, he should be placed at the head.—
lie had served his country in Parliament for 43 year,„ and was
therefore, he thought, entitled to expect sortie good 'appoint..
ment of that kind.—(A laugh.)
Sir H. PARNELL stated,: that great abuses were perpe.
trated ender the present system of levying tolls in Ireland, and
that it was impossible for the poor peasants to obtain any re-
dress for them. • What was most provoking of elle however,
was, that the money derived from tolls was not misapplied.—
(A most other cases the object rim obtaining Money
improperly was to apply it improperly; but here he muSt'ac-
knowledge that it was honestly applied. •
Mr. PE Eh said, that if it could be shown that the existing
law was not sufficient to afford redress to persons who .had
been improperly assessed for toll, lie would mimic it would be a
lair ground for calling upon Parliament to consider the ques-
tion. But to appoint commissioners to examine whether such
. a case could ba-made otat, was perfectly absurd. It the prin.
ciple of purchasing the . franchises of individuals were good,
why not extend the application of it to England ? The toll
which the Duke of Bedford collected in Covent...garden mar-
ket was, no doubt, considered very oppressive by those who
paid it ; but nobody could dispute the right of the Noble Duke
to impute it. Unless it could he shown that the present lew
was defective, Parliament could not be called upon to legislate
on the subject. The appointment of a commission he would
decidedly, object to.
Sir J. Nl' W PORT supported the Motion, The patentees
of tolls in Ireland were generally corporate bodies, or very rich
individuals, and with these it was quite impossible for the poor
people who were the objects of their extortion to contend. One
of the most objectionable parts of the present system was the
administering of illegal oaths by the toll collecee a. Those col.
lectors took their station at the " custom-gap" of a fair, with a
stick in one hand, and a prayer-book in tire other.—(A laugh.)
They swore the carters who brought goods to market as to the
amount of their loads, and if' they_ were not satisfied with . the
accounts rendered, they took sham:try vengeance with the
stick.—(A laugh.>
Mr. PLUNKETT remarked that the statements which,
j had been made of the abuses of the present system of levying'
tolls in Ireland must he greatly exaggerated, otherwise the'
subject must have been brought under his official notice. If
the tolls were :so extravagantly high as was represented,
the country gentlemen, out of whose pockets they must prin-
cipally be paid, would not fail to make the grievance known,
81) as to reach the ear of tiovernment. The labours of a coin.
mission um the subject would be endless, The number of toll
franchises in Ireland amounted to 2,016, and each of them in.
volved a right to about DI dithasunt kinds of toll. The corn.
thissioners, therefore, would have upwards of 40,000 cases to
investigate.—(A laugh and " hear !")-4t would be the work
of generations—Al na or um, el fief naseentur ab —(A
laugh.)—.lle Must aphis express hie belief that the charges of
abuses under the existing system were too general, and made
on two light grounds. The people would not submit to them,
Gray's description of
" SoMe village Hampdenethat with dnunless breast
" The little tyrant of Irk field withstorl,". •
would not perhaps apply to Irelanth' But if that country was
without village Hamptiens, she was in no want of legal Hemp-
dens.---(A laugh,)—The latter were iv description of per-
sons who were not likely to acquiesce under the implication of
any grievance, and to whom tire expence Of procuring redress
would not form a very important objection.—(it laugh.)—lf
the lion. Mover could suggest. any plan for rendering. the.
mode' of granting redress moreeseineleary, he . would, pledge
himself to- endeavour to carry it tato effect. It was suiv.,N3tett
that titre patents for toile iii Icetaret elioulet be purchased by
the public,' At due 1a west eetiiitate. the tolls in Iceland were
worth 1,00,0601. a year. Parliament eJttlit not, surely, drink
eentknien who hell the pateowlmik.t,tisoi
10,000,0004 1;e thought dist his Right huts. Friends' the Chan.
cam of tir6 Exchopter and the pre,itit,n tof the Board of
Trade would turn the matter in their minds a long time bt•lnre
they renolved to part with such
.a aunt for such a 'porpoee.---j
(A laugh.)—With respect to
,illegal oaths, he pledged leunself,
that deny satire of that nature should be brought under his
notice officially, lie would direct the Crown Solicitor to institute
a prosecution.
Mr. M. FITZGEBALD mid, that nothing could be More
deplorable than the ignorance of the Learmel Oentlemen, with,
respect to the abuses of the system ire' tolls in Ireland. The
existence of those abuses was notorious to every; person 'out—
nected with that part of the empire ; and that they had runt
reached the ear of Oovernuient was. a proof of the poverty
and wretchedness of those who endured diem. The tuna hail
beers proved to have been levied 'where speCific Acts of Per-
liument had provided guardians to aid their operation......l
In the linen trete, there were certain aideleS ekenipt6tl frem.l
toll, but in most of the markets its the south pi' Ireland
there stns a ten levied on those articles. What was worse,
the power of the toll gatherer woe eeercieed in Ivey to pros
mote the frauds in the trade which their office sus instituted.
to check. The toll-gatherer asserted his; right to examine the
article carried to market ; but received a bribe to overlook an
article Lustily • ouarittfactured: lie (Mr. Fitifeerald) knew this to
irlotsee nt coinlii
be the feet, to his capacity, of Magistrate, ,'et lie was preparedto agree to a simple remedy ; and Weill& t4ii;gest 'that where
tolls were disputed by ,poor person";
remedies, aid should be tiffbrded there for that purpose. He
did not • concave: that .his "tight 'Ban. Irritlud (Mr. ehailleirn)
could know much of the country ; i
knew a meretary it 'lreland who knew much of thateemitry ;
nor a learyer who knew mulch of any country at all-4At
Sir JOHN. BRY DUES denhal the insinuation which had
been thrown out, that, justice was nut administered in Ireland
equally to the poor as well as to the rich.
Sir ,iOHN NEWPORT had never asserted the' contrary. '
All he said wasethat if the law w.t :.0 expensive that Life poor
it trot 'get its assistance, •it was a practical denial of
jars' = to him.,
• Mr. It. MARTIN (of' Cialway) knewthat in the county he
represented, gross abuseS existed_ in levying tools ; and the
greatest abuses of all in the town of Oalwity Itself. Nothing
could equal the atrocity of the abases. They eXiste.i to such a
does!, that the landholders round ,Galway ieund the via, of.l
their land reduced two, three, and four shillings an acre, through
.the exorbitant, tolls. He appealed Ilk the truth of his essernotel
to his Hon. Colleague, who had been a defendant in ' a suit
where the Corporation brut been charged with exe.Rion at' illel;rdi
tolls, which suit had been some years in the Colin -of' chart-
eery. Ile (Ma. Martin) was disposed to agree with the Atter- I
ney.Getayeal for trelend, that remedies did. now exist, tile I
greatest abuses belag'hi cases where the toll Was exacted against
the law. Though the law might be equally administered in
Ireland, it was not accessible, any more than the City of Loodon
Tavern, to those who had no money• lee tire Attorney.f.lentral.
that
for Ireland had declared he Woiddalirect tire Crowe Solieiter to
prosecute where abuses were diseoveretliiillvid,enr.oeAcbui)seivubeteid,nrdrtehjedvaettrittiti
the motion should not be pressed. The
to the cuirject of the shuttles in Calivay,
Ctioreutrotlls)f nbeet c bud tif. ii(illeeigt 1,11 e case
haellidfaceirtirele)iliiitileettc;
hhn.
Mr. DAIS (the other Member ft4uljelttilitiaktvgay)
self with considet.blc warmth against the statements Of the
lion. Member (Mr. Martin), to which he gave the most decided
.contrad irtioll,

if r. it".."-iIIARTIN here made some rentark, which occa-
sioned load and reiterated cries of " Order !" " OrcV3'!"
Alt. DALY repeated his contradiction. There had ip.:eri no.
thin illegal in the transaction referred to. The I lon. Mein.'
bet tad said he (Mr. Daly) Witii defenthmt in a suit.
11 r. AI A ltT I N..... 1 do.
T h. 811:,A KEIL rtLtitimed the lion. Member to abstain
trout interruption.
Mr. 31ARTIN apologized to the Howie.
Mr.' DAIX admitted he bad la.:•ii defendant in a suit 4.4
member of the corporation,
but the Court had instantly dia.
ciliog,Jd hint froni 4dl blarne.—(Hear, hear!).--lii. I lon. Gen.
tleman complained of these attacks upon brim, of 1%1110'116 had
not been the first instance., and defied the worhl to say that he
ever took one farthing of the public Ultifiey. lie was not aware
of any illegal tolls taken in the town of Galway : if there
tawwere, a taw shillings.Wraild enable a person to try the right......'
110 again denied that any person could prove, that as a magi,
straw of that city he had illegally or improperly conducted hire.
self.--(Haar 1)
Mr. MARTIN did not charge the lion. Alember with any
Improper conduct ; he did not therefore make any apology to
him, for he had abstained from imputing any suen conduct to
him, lie put it to the House) Whether he had cliargtd the

lion. Member with receiving money. lie (Mr. Martin) merely
said that illegal tolls were taken at Galway, and he said it with•
out intending to give offence-to, any man.—lie said likewise th'ar
the tolls-were improperly applied, but he did not charge the,
Hon. Member with misappropriatim them.
Mr. CARDS WILSON made a few remarks which were
inaudible. • -

After some conversation 'between Mr. (;OULBIiP.N, Mr.
PLUNKETT, and Mr. S. Iticu, the latter Member withdrew
motion, with an understanding that a- select cothinittee
,ottli,l be accedia to with limited power,, to ascertain whether
any and wit& remedrean be applied-to the existing 100 with-
out trenching; upon private rights.
BANK OP :IRELAND.

Sir 11. PA ANELL rose, according to notice, to present his
memorial upon the state of di,: Bank of Ireland ; hut, from
the confusion .prliduced by Members quitting the House, very
few of -the "'minable - BaronePtrobservations could be cot-
lewd. The exclusive privileges held by the Bunk of Ireland,
as it seineel to him, and to a :great portiefte of those whom
he.represented,- were highly injurious to the welfsre of that
country.. One obvious effect of them was, that while alt the
provinces-, of Ireland were conveniently accommodated and
supplied by means of joint stock banks, the great. commercial
city of Dublin ' ivas shut ' out from participation in the
same .. advantage. Under ' these • circumstances (desiring
to deprive the Bank Of Ireland of none of their rights
withoutadequate cointiensation),, he ,was charged with a me-
intiiialfront several merchants of Dublin, praying the llotise
to consider of ihe'expellicneY of malting a new bargain with
the BaniClif Ireland, by which the establishment of joint-stock.
banks in Diiblin should be permitted. The persons by whom
the'irienioritl was signed were of the highest respectability and
consideration ; ' and he should merely conclude by moving,
that it should be laid upon the table.
The CHANCELLOR of the E-V:IIEQUEIt said, that
he had never keen the memorial in question. The Honourable
Baronet had brought it down to the Treasury on the pre-
ceding day ( Wednesday) ; but certainly it had not reared him
(the Rt. lion. Gehl.) lie wished that the lion. Bart. had giVen
a little 11401-C time previouS to-asking-whether the production of
the memorial could be cOrisented to ; although, as the case
stood, he Should not feel it necessary to O'er any tiartieular
objection to it. At the same time, he was bound to say that
he' did not consider it a light request to ask the Government,
at once, and by are het of ' mere authority, .to quash the char-
tered rights of such a body as' the Bank of Ireland. If the
lion. Baronet could prove that that body had done any act in.
consistent with the terms of their charter, there might be some
ground to interfere ; but it was a very different thing to talk of
_pressing the Ilinise at once to put an end to that charter, upon
a mere speculative view of advantage that might be derived,
supposing that charter not to be in existence.
Sir 11. PARNELL declared his strong opinion that, when.
ever a proper opportunity presented itself, the project of the
memorial might be sustained, upon the view of giving full
compensation. -
After a few words front Mr. S. incr. and Mr. Iltion Es,
the memorial Walt tigreed to be received.
I)EBTOtt AND CREDITOR ARRANGEMENT BILL.
Mr. BRIOIIT ninved the second reading of his Bill for
altering the hiw as regarded arrangements between debtor and
creditor.' As'the law now Stood, it deed signed by a debtor
making over his propbrty to trustees fur the benefit of his cre-
ditors. constituted ill act of bankruptcy. This was a great
grievance ; and the intent of the • new Bill was to take the act
out of the limits of bankruptcy. . According to the existing
law, too; such' a deed of trust must be signed by every, creditor,
or it was invalid ; his (Mr. Bright's) Bill made it valid wheit
signed by seven-eighths. He (the non. Member) was con-
vinced that th 6 Bill would be felt as a great boon in the com-
mercial World; as enabling parties in many eases to avoid the
1 expellee attendant upon commisaionii of bankruptcy.
The Bill was then read 6 second thine, and committed for
Monday. next;