The Sun.
London, England, 1821-08-22 00:00:00

Net feertzia convinced in ray own mind that he
was the aae-Ce, although very much like him, I
did Oct feel warranted in saying it was him ;
after sveing them all, however, Lwas desirous of
goiugaback to'look at him again, and requested the
commanding officer to allow me to go; be refused,
sayiag his orders were imperative, to admit of
only oae.hispection of the troops ; th Magistrates
paotested aaainst this,-and said they must desire
I shou'Al be shte,vn to that place again ; Mr.
Binie-in particular urged it, saying, on the part
of ticslajesty's Government, be must insist on
Joy 'being, permitted to go back ; I went to the
place again ; the commanding officer then admit-
- lina it; I•pointedout that gentleman, and nom' I
muat tell the Jury that he "was not the person I
took him to b.e yesterday, when I gave my evi-
dence ;- but his strong resemblance warranted me
in saying to the commanding officer, that he bore
the strongest resemblance to him of any ; I ob-
.served to .the Magistrates that I could not swear
.te the gentleman, hotfrom the strong resemblance
-I thought it was •the same; some gentleman ob-
served, that I must be aware of the great respon-
sibility I was under, and. should be careful; he
was not a Magistrate, and Mr. Birnie immediately.
'checked him, saying that nothing ought to be
said ; I asked the name of the officer, but the
Magistrates said I musf excuse that, it was not
necessary, but that I was allowed to make any
observation I pleased. T have nothing more to
ay than that the Magistrates and Officers bowed
m-a,• and wished me pod day, and shelved me
out by the Park way. .
When the deposition was read over,. the wit=
-ness explained that the officer he had pointed
cut to him to be the person who was in Oxford-
street on the 14th, because he bore a, strong. re-
'semblance to the person whom he then thoUght
h:rn to be:
John Pook re-examined.--T have been at the
barracks, and have inspected the reiment; I
• pointed out a person there whom 1 believe to be
the one with whom I had a conversation ; I con-
"sidered myself under the process of an examina-
tion by Mr. Birnie; Mr. Birnie at first asked
what I came there for. I told him to identify
the officer with whom T had a conversation ; he
said that was not evidence ; Mr. Stafford said he
• thOught it was, and I was allowed to go on; I
repeated to Mr. Birnie that I thought that was
the person ; I omitted asking the name of the
officer, thinking the responsibility rested on. Mr.
Birnie ; his station was on the left side of me as
I went along the ranks; I thought Lcould iden-
t!fy another person in the first rank who was pre-
sent on the occasion ; it was one I had seen cut
a man, and I-intended to take.a better- view of
him when I returned, but I was told to -keep
my eye to the right; I had no further opportu-
nity of seeing him; I told Mr. Birnie that I had
every reason to believe that he was the person ;
Mr. Stafford wrote something, and I have no
doubt both he and Mr. Birnie will know the
-tan. They were in two lines, and the Officers
'in front, face and face, and there was one op-
posite- the Officer I pointed out, that was so like
him as to create doubt in my mind.
Tae CVISIJA 41,ft4 Lo
'just received a message frem Mr. Birnie, to say.
that all the witnesses in the barracks bad gone
'through the inspection of the troops, and desired
to know if the Jury had any others who had
been examined to send over.

Four individuals were then taken from the
room, one of whom was Mr. Dean,and proceeded
to the Barracks for the purpose • of identifying.
It is to be observed that these persons; notwith-
standing the repeated directions of the Coroner,
had been permitted to remain in the room when
the witnesses were examined, and had an oppor-
'tunity of hearing an accurate description of the
station of the Officer in the regiment who had
been fixed on by the other witnesses.
Wm. Cleaver re-examined. Had been down the
• ranks of the troops in the Barracks over the way.
Saw an officer on the right hand side, iyhom'at
first he thought to be• the officer he had seen at
the Queen's fttneral. Ile saw a second one fur-
tiler on, whom he pointed out as the person,
and asked his name ? A Gentleman said they
did not give any mimes there. He then said he
-could not take upon himself to swear that that
'was the officer he had seen at the Queen's fu-
neral. They asked him if he wished to see any
'further round the ranks, but. he said he did not.
He was of a light complexion,-but he did not re-
mark the colour of • his hair. He believes the
.Magistrate
.took, down the officer's name, and
also what witness said. He saw another very
like him, but from the agitated state of his mind
'he could not swear. He was asked for his name
and address in the first instance and gave it. -
After his deposition had been read to him, the
-witness observed that he 'had omitted to state
on, his former examination, that he saw a soldier
•on the day of the Queen's funeral with:hig face
all bloody, -and. gaVe hiin his hatinerchieflo'
wipe it off. This was between Kensington' and
• Knightsbridge. '
William Pinkerton re-examined.—He saw.
every officer on the parade,and• was not able to
identify any one of them.
William Alexander, a lad of about twelve years
of age, stated, that he had seen the soldiers
drawn out over the way in .the Barracks ; he
was taken along the ranks by two soldiers ; he
saw an Officer hold down his head and turn up
his eyes, but that was not the man, that shot
Richard Honey.. He went straight up the right-
hand rank ; a great number of them had cloaks
on, and the soldiers hurried him along very fast.
When be got to the top, he turned. to the right;
and saw the soldiers that were on the left. He
went straight on there, close to. the 'gate where
he entered first, when he again turned round,
and went up to the same line, looking to the left
instead of the. right. As he passed along, he saw
several laughing at him, and:gnashing their teeth,
and talking about what he could not hear. He
observed a young Officer before he came-up to
him by three, and immediately advanced-up to
him, and not knowing he -had a right to speak,
he pointed at him. • One of the soldiers that was
with him, asked him what he meant by it. He
said that that was the man that aimed and fired
at a man at Cumberland-gate. Another gen-
tleman 'then came up, and asked him -what he

had to say aho-ut' it; he believed it Was Mr.
; he had a wig on. He replied, that he
had said all he wished to say. Mr. Birnie then
asked what that was, for he wets a Magistrate.
lle repeated it, and .he told witness to go and
put, his hand'`on the horse's head, which he
did. The soldier was then going to put him out at
Knightsbridge-gate ; but the Magistrate told
him not. He was pOSitivelY sure lie was the
same man he saw at Cumberland-gate aim and
fire at the deceased. He was of a light com-
pl:2xion, and about 18 or 22 years of age. When
witness pointed Mai out, he turned white, and
when' he touched .his horse's head, he turned red
and laughed. They asked him if he would go
round again, and he said " No," he was quite
sure. He was dressed as he was before, and he
knew him 'by his pautaloons, with boots under
them, and by his face 'and appearance altogether.
'William Montagae was in the Barrackyard,
and saw an Officer on the right hand side. He
thought him to be the man, but could not swear
to him. He went all.round and up the middle
again, .and saw one man about half way up on
the right hand side. He thought him to be the
man) but could not swear. There was a resem-
blance and likeneSs, but he looked lustier than
he had expected. He pointed towards him, and
said he thought that 'was the man that levelled
-his piece at the man that .was shot at the crowd
of Cumberlatid-strejt. One of the soldiers that
went round with witness -went tip to the man and
said .something to him, but he did not hear. Ile
did -not know whether he was an officer or a--
private ; he was in the _ranks. Ile saw several
that were-like him,. but one in particular on the
opposite side, and could not swear-to either. He
knew it was not the -same horse. He thought he
saw it in another ;place in the hinder rank.
Josiah Dean.7.-I saw the troops paraded in the
Barracks. Exactly opposite the. entrance to the
yard,- there .was an open file. I went up the
centre of it; examining minutely the soldiers on
the right-hand side. I observed when I had got
fifteen or twenty yards up the line, to the soldier
that accompanied me, that I did not think it was
possible for me to identify the man in consequence
of the . way in -which they were muffled up to
the neck With their long cloaks. I said I could
not tell an Officer from a Private. I proceeded
to the top of the line, which was the'yard, turned
round, and in returning inspected the other side
which was on my right. I observed to the sol-
dier that was with me, there was an Officer I
knew very well, that I thought within this last
day or two must have been in a very hot climate,
his countenance was so different from what I had
ever seen it. 1 think he was rouged. The sol-
dier told me in a very abrupt way, that the time
could not be taken up in that manner ; I must
go on. When I got to -the bottom, I turned
round to the right again, to inspect the rear file.
I was met at the bottom by Mr. Birnie, Mr.
Stafford, and some Officers of the Guards and
several Gentlemen. I told them that could
not identify.the person. I then came away ; but
I wish to state'that the soldiers were so muffled
up, that. 1 think if impossible that any one can
Identify Litem. I t'hp
haVe been given. They held their heads down,
and looked another way. .
By a Juryman.--I saw the soldiers on the
14th of August, and they had their cloaks On
them, but as they were galloping about the whole
body could be seen.

A- discussion ensued relative to the propriety
of retaining that part' of the witness's evidence
which spoke of the rouge on the O'fficer's face.
The Foreman thought it material, as proving that
stratagem was resorted to, observing, " that if
all the troops were to be muffled in cloaks, and
painted, it was impossible to recognize them."
William Spratt saw the' troops paraded over
the way. In the centre, on the left-hand side,
be- saw two Officers about ten.horses distance,
but they were so ninth alike, that he was quite
puzzled between them, and could not determine
which of the two shot the man. . When he came
to the second man, he' thought the first
had come out of his place, and put him-
' self before him. One that he looked at,
.when
he was just about .to lift up his hand to poin t•
him out, his lips quivered, and he turned pale ;
and he should have said he was the man, when
he saw the other, which created the doubt. The
mind preponderated in favour of the second one,
whom he had seen in the morning, whilst he was
going into the stable with a private behind him,
when he called out ." that is the man that shot
Poney ; swear it." The
.Officer turned and
looked at him, and hurried into the stable.
.1111'. Souls, who had been previously examined,
now came for Ward, and stated, that he could cor-
roborate this part of the witness's statement,, as
he saw it.

The CORONER strongly reprehended the con-
duct of ;he witness in remaining in the room, after
the repeated' ordrs.' given to the contrary, and
informed•him that no second examinations could
be taken.

William Tuckey said, it was so dark when he
was admitted to view the troops, that he was
unable to speak with any certainty on the sub-
ject. He remarked one officer on the right,
about sixteen yards down. He vould not identify

man.

Mr. WAITIIMAN complained that in conse-
quence of the short notice given of the intention
of the troops to parade for the witness's inspec-'
Lion, the ends of justice had been completely
defeated. It had been impossible to send round
to the witnesses in time for them to come up,
and to those who had come every means of ob-
struction and confusion had been employed by
the troops.

The CORONER—I read a letter to you this
morning, proposing a postponem2nt, but you re-
jected the proposal.
Mr. IVAITumAx said, that they did not anti-
cipate the obstruction which had been thrown in
the way.

A scene of confusions followed here, from an
individual who had made his way into the room,
addressing the Jury in the language of com-
plaint, relative to the conduct of the military,
and his disappointment, not having received a
summons i❑ time to take part in the inspection.

. .
' Some of the Sury :'eprehended him for his in-
trusion, and others dettnded it.
The Foreman here:dhserved, that he thought
the Adjutant ought
,to, be summoned to attend.
At present he (the 'foreman) did not know the
man's name. On being informed of that, he
should make a motion for his attendance:-?\„
Mr. Sheriff Waithmwt: said, he had Ales
to impute any thing to the Adjutant; but on
the whole, he thovht the present way- the
most pitiful farce eqr played off. The Jury had
been-deprived of the means of coMing.to a proper
conclusion from tl testimony which had been
given. If the Surf were to see a man pointed
out, and to see that man's lips quiver and his
colour change, woad not-fhey infer sornething
front so strong a circumstance ? Without this
advantage of observation, they might as well try
persons at the Old Bailey in the absence of the
prisoner. Why Whs the prisoner akays present
on those occasions, with a large glass over his
head, but for the purpOse of enabling the Jury to
watch his countenance on the living of the evi-
deuce ? Much also depended upon the manner in
which a witness conducted himself in the presence
of the prisoner. These opportunities for the ad-
vancement of justice were entirely lost by the
mode in which the proceedings were conducted.
It being now ascertained that the name of the
Adjutant was ''.),mas Ewens, the Foteman of
the Jury movetiOhat he be summoned to attend.
the next meeting to give evidence, and that lie be
requested to bring With him and produce the
roaster, or orderly book,- of the 14th of August.,
in order that the names of the Officers and men
that day oti duty might be ascertained.—The
motion, aftersa short conversation, was put and
carried by 14 -voices against one. That one,
however, withdrew his opposition, and the mo-
tion was carrkd unanimously. It was then pro-
posed, that for the purpose of confirming the
evidence of the Witness Alexander, Mr. Birnie
and Mr.. Stafford should be summoned. This
was agreed to, and they were ordered to be sum-
moned accordingly.
. The Inquest was then adjourned until this
day, at two o'clock, -at the New Inn, Edg-eware-
road.

FOR THE SUN.

THE PEOPLE AND THE CITY.

Ma.
EDITOP.---The complaints respecting a late
Procession, as far as I can understand theth, are,
that Ministers did not comply with the wish of
the PEOPLE, and direct the Funeral to' pass
through the City. Now sir, surely no -one who
has
,seen the Procession will call that motley
grciupe the People, or even its -Representatives.
Besides, small as it was, I question whether one
in ten had any thing to do with the. City. _ •
If it is said that it was the wish of the People
of. the Netropblis, then Sir, even that fails ; for
the People of the Metropolis, with the exception of
the Rioters and their party, had assembled very
quietly along the_ line of road m hich they sup-
posed Ministers .would adopt; and, in the
until the success of the Rioters was known„ there
the kt iiiartyxf crowa. But Sir, why
should the City have the preference over the rest of
the Metropolis, even looking at the affair as a
show ? The population of the City is not one
hundred thousand, about one fifteenth part of the
MILLION AND 'A HALF who form the Population
of LONDON, in its general designation ; and there-
fore if it had been the wish of Government Co
gratify the PEOPLE by a fair view of the Proces-
sion, the route which they marked out was the
very'one best adapted for that purpose.—Your's,
IGNOTUS.

The REPORT of the SELECT COMMITTEE of the
HousE of COMMONS appointed to consider the
several returns made to the Orders of that House
in 1819, 1820, and 1821, relative to the sums as-
sessed, levied, and expended, on account of the
poor in England and Wales, has been printed.—
] t states that the returns are nearly complete ;
that it appears the expenditure has continued
to increase from 1812 to 1820—the first period
averaging 6,129,844/4 the second 6,844,2901.;
and the third 7030,622/4 but the annual ab-
stract shews that this increase has not been pro-
gressive year by year throughout the whole pe-
riod, and that it is not now progressive. The
returns in 1820-21 will slim whether the amount
has continued to decrease, and the Committee
have been informed that the greater number of
the returns which have already been received,
exhibit a more or less considerable diminution.
There are, however; several, exceptions to be
found in particular Counties to the results drawn
from a general average. In the counties of Devon
and Surrey, there was an excess not inconsi-
derable in 1813-19 over the preceding year,
and a slight excess in Bedford, Cumberland,
Gloucester, Huntingdon, Lincoln, Middlesex,
.Northampiva, .Rutland, Westmoreland, and
the North and East Ridings of Yorkshire:-:::
In other counties of England, there was
scarcely a diminution, and in Wales, gene-
rally, an excess. In Cumberland, Leicester,
Lincoln, and the West Riding of Yorkshire, the
year 1819-20 shews the greatest amount. The
exceptions to the statement that as to the two
last years of which there are returns there was
a slight diminution in the second, arise in the
counties of Chester, Cumberland, Derby, Durham,
Leicester, Lincoln, Nottingham, Warwick, and
the West Riding of Yorkshire.

PROVIDENTIAL ESCAPE.—Yesterday morning a little girl,
named SARAH SOASIES, about six years of age, whose mother
obtains her living by washing, and resides in the Kingslamt.
road, whilst engaged at the tub the little girl went to the win-
dow, two stories high, and having overbalanced hciself fell into
the streets. -The poor mother ran down half frantic, when she
found the child in the arms of a neighbour, unhurt. A surgeon
attended, and declared the child had sustained not the least in-
jury,

FATAL ACCIDENT.--Two young men, belong-
ing to the parish of Tarbolton, having, on Friday
evening last, gone out to shoot wood-pigeons,
one of them incautiously rested the muzzle of his
fowling-piece against his left breast, when it ac-
cidentally went off, and lodged the contents in
his heart. Ile instantly expired. He was the
principal support of an aged mother, %% ho is thus
left to lament his melancholy fate.—(Edinburgh
Courant,' Aug. 18.)

FOR TilE SUN.

GOVERNMENT ECONOMY.

M. is no* the cry---with
the esta,blishment of 17±1.2--b; let us not forget
that ive are both richer and'- triore populous thati
irtAtiott year ; tilhirefore with %more-4o slipport,
and abler to do it. Thus rich and populous have

we become, if not in consequence of an enormous
expenditure, at least in spite of it. But I be-
lieve that a little cool consideration will show that
our wealth has arisen in a great degree from our
increased expenditure, which not only elicited
labour and circulation to meet its own demands,
but also to go far beyond them. In fact,.Sir, the
operation of expenditure in regard to a nation
and to an individual, are two things' as distinct as
noon and midnight. The money spent by an
individual does not return. to himself; but that

spent by a nation is' for 'the most part wi

i: itself ; and w here taxation exists, as with us, great
part of it returns again into the national coffers
ready for further expenditure. Again, though
an individual may save lay decreased expenditure,
let us not forget that he may lose through false
economy. So is it with a nation, and by that
test may we try the system of economy now pro-
posed by modern financiers, and partly acted on,
I am sorry to observe, by his Majesty's Ministers.
Sir, it was the diminution of-, public expendi-
ture that first produced both public and private
distress. That is a truth which may be denied,
but cannot be contradicted. Are we then to be-
lieve that the evils resulting from so great a cause

are-to be cured by petty savings -in our great
Public Establishments, by discharging Seamen
and Soldiers to be supported by the Poors Rates ;
for our labouring population are not yet fully
employed—and by the harsh dismissal of POOR
CLERKS IN Puna-Jo OFFICES, who have spent
their best days in the service of the country,
until unfitted for any other occupation, and non
to be cast off without support or the means of ob-
taining it ?

It ma.), be said that these clerks were only on
the War Establishment—but even then, what
does the Country save by, their tiismissal ? Take
a man, (and such a case may, nay does exist),
with•a wife.and five children, who has been fif-
teen or seventefin years in public employ, receiv-
in"g perhaps one hundred pounds per annum.—
Dismiss him, and what is saved to the Country ?
100/.!! Oh, no ! for here are seven individuals
east upon_ the parish ! Can they be supported for
ten pounds per curium each Why, Sir, IL they
can, that is 701. a-year ! 'So that on one Side we
have saved 30/. per annum, and on the other we
have gained seven paupers, instead of a little family
living in happiness,and respectability—nay more,
a family living in such a manner as toTay back
in taxes to the national purse, directly and indi-
rectly, more than the 30/. thus supposed to be
saved on paper calculation.

Is this then a mode of economy worthy of a great
Nation or a liberal Government, even as a matter
of pounds, shilliUgs; and pence ? IS such a sum
total of mi.'iery as must ensue, to be encountered
for .no other purpose but to follow the crude theo-
ries of.. Mr. Jpsr.ett liumc,* and other Cla-
mourers, who would regulate the expenditure of
the Nation by the petty economy which enabled
them to creep through life, until they could find
their way into Parliathent ? Are we thus to
break up the very sinews, and shed the heart's-
blood of our military, naval, and financial de-
partments, 'at the very moment too when, per-
haps, they are all on the Very point of being again
called into action ?

Once torn asunder, Mr. Editor, it will cost us
much more than even the nominal savings to put
them together again, independent of w hat must
be lost before they can be made to work as sys-
tematically as will be necessary for the rapid and
accurate carrying on of the Public Service.
I wish not to be the prophet of evil ; but I
fear, Sir, that we shall soon have to lament the
errors of a false economy.--You may, perhaps,
hear further on this subject from your constant
reader and well-wisher,

A PLAIN MAN.

TIIE FLORIDAS.

Our contemporaries yesterday (says The
Times), under the head of " American intel-
ligence," stated that .the troops" of the United
States had occupied the Floridas,
.and that Ge-
neral Jackson had:issued-a proclamation 'on tak-
ing possession ; but this statement is at least
premature, as the following extract from the
National intelligewer will show
" s fIiNG TON-, JULY e perceive that. a copy of
General Jackson's Proclamation, on taking possession of the
Floridas; is szoinr• the rounds, with -the date of the 25tit
Now, the Prochimation could have not reached' us in due
course of mail sinceAthat date. Moreover, the proclama-
tion is not sii.med, It is not, therefore, authentic. Yet,
we, believe that on the '2sth day of last month -Gen. Jackson
did actually issue a proclamation of ,the form and tenure
of that which is published. The mystery is thus explained :
—General Jackson insived from -Montpelier (Alabama) for Pen-
sacola, with,the troops of the United States, on the 15th ult.
-Previous to his moving, it was probably determined that his
proclamation, copies •of which, in the American and Spanish
languages, had been- some time 'Tainted ready for distribution,
should issue on the 25th. It now a week since we received a
copy of this , proclamation, thus dated. We knew, however,
that it could not have come in the regular course of the Mail,
and.mu-st consequently have been forwarded in anticipation of
the event which it proclaims. We determined to wait the actual
occurrence•of the tact before we published' the proaxmation
There's Many a slip 'tween the cup and the lip;' and some-
thing or other might have turned up to prevent the appearance
of the proclamation on the day intended. Grave bodies move
slowly ; and the Spaniards arc proverbially grave." '

PRICE OF STOCKS
THIS DAY AT TWELVE O.CLOCK.
3 per Cent. Red., • 76i Bank Long Ann, 19 11_1 :s
3 per Cent. Cons: • Excheq. Bills
4 per Cent pr.
954- 96 Cons.Yof Aceouitt. 761
5 per Cent. Navy Ann. 10811.09 % .
•

11.1 Gil WATER IAINDO:
Morning, 3.1 minutes after 10.

,i-StBRIDGE TO-VORROW.
I Evening, 11 minutes after 11.

THE SUN.

SOLEM QUISDICERE FALSUM AUDE.IT

LONDON,
WEDNESDAY-, AUGUST 22, 1821;

It appears by the Paris Journals of Sunday,
which arrived this morning, that war is. regarded
as inevitable, though hostilities have not posi-,
tively commenced,—Accounts, dated' the 14th of
July, have been received' from Constantinople,
which mention that the Austrian Internuncio has
supported the demands of the Russian Cabinet,
and that this conduct hasgiven great dissatisfaction
to the GRAND SIGNIOR. It is generally believed'
that England has at length accepted. the oflice of
•
Mediator, at the earwig solicitation of.the f{:1:4!
who has expressed a desire'of avoiding war ivith
Russia, by declaring to the British Minister its
readiness to comply with the Ultimatum of the
Emperor ALEXANDER ; but it is very doubtful
whether the GRAND SIGNIOR pOSSOSSVS sufficient
power to restrain the excesses of the Janissaries
and Asiatic troops, or to prevent their renewal;
and whether he will not be compelled to sunny,
to the wishes of the Ottoman troops, who loud!!
demanda war against Russia, and appear to IC
animated by the highest degree of fanaticism.
The impression at Vienna is that it is srarceil
possible war can be avoided; and this idea apPes3.4
to be strengthened by the conduct of the Austrili3
Government, who have sanctioned the circulatio3
of Reports to this effect to serve as a caution tc'
Merchants in their speculations ; more especially
as several demi-official Journals have promulgated
• 1 opinions of a different tendency, which 111'0)t
induce many persons to embark in undertaking'
that would involve them in ruin in the event of a
war. Dispatches of great importance had been
received by the Austrian Cabinet and the Russian
Ainbassatior at Vienna, on the 7th of August : a
Cabinet Council was immediately sumuluned,
and the Prince de INIETTERNIcu left his palace at
Schoenbrunn to a ttend it.

Three divisions of the Russian army in Bes-
sarabia have reached the banks a Ijos ""
outposts are stationed on the extreme frontier to

observe the movements of the Ottoman army
under JUSSUF PACUA ; the Austrian forces "11—
tinue to march in great numbers to the Turkish'

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