The Sun.
London, England, 1828-02-27 00:00:00

Speaking of the state oa- Scotland, with reference to eirsi
offices, his ardent -sedlerced hint to use this expression,
which does appear to me so much to exaggerate the fact—
. " The natives of Scotland are subject in tile country to
the most horrid penalties, and the state of that country can
only be compared to that of a whole nation under proscrip-
tion. '—(Hear, and laughter.)—Now, y
, I appeal to m
Hon.' Friend near me if the description as to the state
of his country, even with regard to civil offices, as that
of horrid penalties, ie a just one. In 1787, 1789,
and 1790, Scotland endeavoured to snake out a pe-
culiar case for herself, with regard to those Acts..
In 1791, Sir Gilbert Elliot brought forward this
case upon petitissn from the General Assembly. He stated.
that whatever we did with England, Scotland must be con-
sidered upon different grounds; she had a peculiar case of
her own, and must have a debate entirely to herself; and
Sir, amongst the strongest opponents of his motion were
two men, who, I am sure, would not have been found it.
the opposition on that occasion,-if Scotland had really been
in a state of proscription, and subject to horrid penalties-.-
I mean the Lord Advocate of the day, and the late Lord.
Melville. I ask the Honourable Gentleman how many
petitions be has had from Scotland in support of these allege.a.
grievances? I believe, Sir, not out, But if he had,
should `have had a good practical answer ; andwhen he asked
what we should have done but for the Scots Grey's and the
42d shedding their best blood at Waterloo, I s ay, good God
Sir, has the question of this night, whichever way it be
decided, any tendency to deprive us of such services '
(Hear, hear, hear.)—But 1 am quite sure the Honour
able Gentleman did not allude to offices of that kind, Ie
looked to the higher offices of the state—and here Sir,
mistaken if,
eimf, otoutgonfesftioounrtetehne
lam willing to meet him. I look at the Cabinet, and 1
not three good Presbyterians, sustaining all the horrid
mtreuutl'ibeor;thtihserer
penalties of that painful station. __(A laugh.)—As some
state-
ment, I need only mention the names of Lord Melville,.
Lord Aberdeen, and the Right Hon. the President of the
'Board of Trade. Ido not state this, Sir, as against that
Hon.tm m ueh
Gentlemenn:
country—for I state, sincerely, that there is not one of
the sons of that happy and favoured country—happv and
favoured by their own exertions and integrity-1 say, Sir,
that she has not a native son more anxious to promote her
prosperity or advance her happiness, than the humble in-
dividual who now addressee you. The Noble Lord (Rus-
sell) speaks of the higher offices as objects of ambition.
with the middling orders, just as elevation to the Peerage
is to the higher. I entirely concur with him in that sen-
timent, and should be the last man in existence
t r debar any class in the British community from
the attainment of the highest honours in the State. But
are the Protestant Dissenters labouring under any such
exclusion ? I should like to ask the Hon. Alderman how
it is in the City of London ? I am reminded, Sir, that
only last year the highest dignity in that Corporation--the
Mayoralty—was held by a most respectable Protestant
Dissenter. Then, Sir, what are the advantages enjoyed
tinder the present system ? I believe that there has been
for forty years past as little religious differences as ever
here were in any nation, or under any circumstances. An
lion. Alderman stated yesterday, that thirty-nine years ago
there were only seven persons in favour of the repeal of
these Acts, but that now there were not more than two
against the repeal. Now this is a strong proof that the.
laws do not create discord between fellow citizens ; and i
!oust say, that I should he sorry to purchase a nomiaa,.
advantage in the repeal of these laws at the risk of disturb
itig that harmony which at present subsists between the
Church and the Dissenters. I wish to give the Establish-
ed Church continued possession of their nominal sopa
tiority ; but if we are to have such laws, I wish the':
seeration to he as slight as possible.—(Cheers.)—.And I
du aesore the .loble Lord, if my side of the question shah
triumph on the present occasion, the exultation that I mar
feel in the momentary feeling of victory will be completele
absorbed in the sorrow with which 1 shall be oppressed at
the thoughts of any uneasiness that such a result may Ge-
t asion to a body of men for whom 1 eutertain the greatest
respect, and whose conduct, on all occasions, 1 feel to be
tenitled to my sincere admiration.
Mr. Brougham, Sir Francis Burdett, Mr. D. W. Har-
vey, and Sir T. D. Arland, rose at the vane time. There,
were loud calls for Mr. Brougham continued for amuse
time, so as to prevent any other Member from being heard.
Sir T. ACLAND at length addressed the House. He
said he would not have trespassed on the House bade
not been convinced that ho would have:no chance of Wag
heard after his Hon. and Learned Friend. He was nrixioue
to make what suggestions he had to advance, now that the
House was in temper to hear them, after the conciliators'
,one of his Right Hon. Friend's speech. There was one
reflection growing out of all that had passed ; it was this—
that there was far less difference between the parties than
was imagined. His Right Hon. Friend, whom he was, he
supposed, to regard as the chief opponent of the Dissene
tens, had frequently pressed it upon their attention, that
'here was no practical grievance for the Dissenters to com-
plain of on the one hand, and that the Church had ao
practical benefit to boast of on the other. Then the ques-
tion was, on which side should the indulgence be granted
If the Church had not a substantial benefit, it was not
worth keeping—certainly not when it excited the jealousy
rod discontent of others. (Cheers.) But did this apply to
the other side ? Was it the same with a grievance that
was not substantial 1 such was the constitution of our
nature, that he believed it must be admitted a grie-e-
-ance was not the less a grievance because it was nee a
substantial one--(Loud cheers)---and he should adduce 13
Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Fergusson) as a proof to
Iris Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel) of the troth of that
inaxim.—(Hear.) His opinion on the Catholic Questifare
had always been the same, and it had heck sonvewhat
different from that of the friends of religious liberty ix
general—his opinion had always been to give to all reli-
gious sects such liberty as was practical and consistent
with safety. Farther than that he world not go. And
as he then had caught the eye of his Right lion. Friend.
the Secretary for the Colonies, he would tell biro that the
struces.e of this motion to-night would tend greatly to
strengthen the ground upon which the Catholics stood.—
(Loud cheers.) His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel) bad
made it an argument against the Dissenters, that for the
last ten years they had not pressed their claims. Bot
he
needed not tell his Right Hon. Friend that it was the praes
rice of wise men to press their suit at such time& as they
might have reasonable hopes of being listened to..—(Hesere
hear.) So the Dissenters had been silent for the time lice
had mentioned, but having remained quiet for ten years,
end now, upon their own views of their own isitereete,
having marshalled themselves, and come. !Simard in
strength to .demand their rights, what, did Iris Right
Honourable Friend expect would he their feelings
for the next ten yeas if they were rejected this night
(Loud cheering.)—He could assure his Right Hon: Friend,
and he spoke from a foreknowledge of the workintre of the
human character, and from that only, that if it was peti-
tions alone that he wanted to convince him that the Dis-
senters were alive to their interests, he should not lack that
proof.—(Continued cheers.)—Let him meet the forth-
coming claims of this body by anticipation. He hailed as
the dawn of better days, the very temperate speech which
his Right lion. Friend lied made on this subject. Ile (Sit
T. D. Acland) never had to qualify for office but once,
and then it was for the office of Magistrate, and he con-
fessed that his feelings on approaching the table at whist;
he was to hold spiritual communion as a creature with
his Creator, for earthly and secular purposes, had retained
a mastery over his mind ever since, and given a decided
stamp to his objections to such tyrannical and undue
exercise of authority, His Right Honourable Friend ha t
told them that these were Dissenters in the Cabinet, any,
that a late Lord Mayor of Landon had been a respectable,
Dissenter. All that he saw in these facts was, a new-
instance of the unnecessary degradation to which these it,.,.
dividuals had been subjected on account of their religious
sentiments, and the only atonement that can be made to
them is, to relieve their successors from such a nec.esaity.
He had a proposition to make to his Right Hon, Friend,
with a view to the settlement of the whole question before
and if he would
the Houma Agree to it, he promised hiro
he should have no cause to complain. His proposal was,
that instead of renewing the Indemnity Act next monee,
for the usual term of one year, his Right Hon. Frivol.
should want the Dissenters a suspension from the opera-
don of 'these laws for the same period. If he would make
this experiment pro futuro, he might then, at the end of
the year, renew it for a longer period if be thought proper.
for he was sure he would have no cause to regret it,—
(Clwera.) His anxiety to go into the Committee was, the
eonfident expectation that they would, in the present star
of public opinion, be able to come to some ultimate er
rangernent of the whole question.—(hear, bear.)
Mr. BROUG HAM—Sir, I am now glad that I gave
way to my Hon. Friend (Sir T. -
ecland), especially as he
has addressed the House on several points to which, but
for Iris speech, I should have been obliged to refer, and
which I feel I should have urged far less effectively than
he hus done. 1 am, however, desirous that this oppor-
tunity should not pass without offering some observatiore
in reply to the speeches of the two Right Hon. Secretaries
(Messrs. Huskisson and Peel,) who opposed the motion
of my Noble Friend. One of these Right Hon. Gentle-
ellen, indeed (itlr. Huskisson), so slightly opposed the mo-
tion, as to leave little, if any, grounds fir offering a reply
to what fell from. him. The first objection which pre-
gents itself to my mind, is ripen a point of Constitutional
doctrine laid dowo by the Right Hon, Gentleman, the

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