The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-04 00:00:00

stagnation would have increased—the purchasers would
be still holding back. Any one would have looked at
t..e reduction of these duties as certain, and the
refiner would not be able to get rid of his stock.
A certain compensation would attend the reduction
of duty—it was impossible that the consumer could
benefit at once by the change—it would reach him in
time, but not until the dealers had a considerable portion
of the profit. lie could not see any reason why specific
compensation should be demanded—he could not con-
ceive any reason fur making an allowance. The Hon.
Member for Lambeth had instanced the case of the

timber duties in favour of compensation, but it should
be recollected that if six months had in that instance
been allowed to the timber merchant to get his stock off,
that it was more difficult, and required a longer time to
dispose of a quantity of timber than of sugar. It was,
on the whole, both as regarded price and consumption. a
much heavier article. With respect to classification, he
thought that they must either do one of two things—
either they must adopt a system of classification similar
to that which the Government intended, or they
must impose a certain du'y on all descrip-
tions of foreign sugars. He must say he pre
ferred the former, and thought it perfectly practi-
cable. In the latter, no Custom-house officer,
however Bceotian, could fail in making distinction,
but he could not think it would be at all just. He
had received a letter from an American gentleman of
great ictelligence, connected extensively with the sugar
trade, and he expressed his surprise that the question of
classification could have been considered so difficult. On
the whole, he (Mr. Gladstone) aas decidedly favourable
to the measure, and considered that the sumer it was
carried into oneration the Letter. ,
Mr. HAWES said the Right Hon. Gentleman had, by
his speech, convinced him that it would be impossible
to carry out the proposed system of classification. It
would be found impossible to draw the line of distinc-
tion, whilst there would ba no difficulty at all in the
other proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman, im-
posing a certain duty upon all foreign sugar. He thought
classification afforded a premium to bad manufacturers,
and to tht m only. It was founded on the old protective
principle. He thought the delay proposed by the Right
Honourable Gentleman was, on the whole, expedient
and desirable, and he thought further consideration
would considerably modify the opinion of the Right Hon.
Gentleman on the subject.
After a few words from Sir R. PEEL, which were not
audible in the gallery,
Mr. COLLETT wished to know from the Right lion.
Baronet the distinction between brown and Muscovado
sugar ?—(Laughter.)
Sir R. PEEL said that House was not exactly the
place for such definitions.—(Laughter.) Any dealer in
sugar would explain to the Right Hon. Gentleman better
than he (Sir R. Peel) could.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the inquiry did not
bear upon the question then to he proposed ; but there
was an objection that if the 70,000 o ns of sugar, which
were stated by his Right Hon. Friend the Munber- fUr
Taunton (Mr. Labouchere) to be imported into this
country, were to have duties levied upon them at the
rates proposed by her Majesty's Government, the Right
Hon. Baronet would find that the East India interest
must materially suffer, and that the proceeding would
.very materially interfere with the impost which the
East India merchants expected to be subjtct to after
the arrangement of 1836.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that he thought the Noble Lord misapprehended the
effect of the imposition of these duties, and that after the
care which had been taken to impose a differential t:uty
on foreign-grown sugar, the protection enjoytd by the
East India grower would be sufficient to sase him from
all that extra effect which the Noble Lord, in his opinion,
needlessly apprehended.
Lord SANDON said that he would make one ob-
servation, though after the extent to which the discus-
sion had gone, lie would not detain the House many
moments. He would, therefore, only observe that un-
less differential duties were impost d on East Indian
sugars, the mere equality of duty would act as a great
detriment to the West Indian growers, and a great
wrong and disadvantage would be done to that body.
There might be difficulties in inakine; a classification of
East Indian sugars, hut it should be recollected that the
imposition of these duties did not act up to the full
amount of those duties. For the sugars which were
imported from Java, it should be recollected, were sugars
of a high quality, whereas the sugars which were im-
ported from the West Indies were of various quality, a
Breit portion of them, indeed. of a low quality, and the
con-equence was, that if the House Eatmlorted the impo-
sition of a 104. duty, or a difference of 109 , this los.
being in favour of colonial sugar, imposed on sugarsiof a
loser quality, it acted as a duty of ss. only on Java
sugars. It must be remembered that the sugar of the
West Indies was produced by expensive free labour,

while the sugar of Java and Manilla, was produced by
slave labour. Anything therefore, that operated to
annul or modify the difference of cost of production be.
tween the two sugars op-rated pro t Into as a boon to the
grower in Java and Manilla, and to the disadvantage of
the colonial gr.aver. The same principle applied to the
sugar of the Esst Indies. There they had labour in abund-
anca, and no difficulty was experienced in obtaining the
cheapest means of cultivation. He hoped, therefore,
that tl.e House would not consent to such an alteration
of the differential duties proposed by her Majesty's Go
vernment as would increase the disadvantage under
which the IVest Indies were placed. The Hon. Member
for Lambeth (Mr. Hawes) had said the other
night, that in the imposition of duties the
House were t apt• to overlook the interest of the
cbsses, and to legislate for those who were best able to
pay in such a way that they had the least impost to
bear, while the poor man was invariably oppressed by
higher dety. He had heard it stated, that in the
imposing the duties on tea, they had put 50 per cent.
of duty on the tea consumed by the poor man, and as
much as 200 per c:nt. on that consumed by the rich
man: He could assure the }louse that he had beard
this stated. Now, he conceived, that in all the great
articles of consumption it was an obvious duty to con-
sult the interests of the masses. He conceived that that
would be by far the more advantageous lain in the im-
position of duties on a great scale, such as that proposed
by her Majesty's Government; the duties would then
fall on every class of the community in a fairer way.
It would greatly contribute to the convenience
of commerce, and especially to those persons
who had the duties to pay. The principle
of employing slave labour gave peculiar tea-
-1 turea to the produce of the West Indian colonies, and as
that produce was a various produce, he thought the ap-
plication of a classified set of duties would most tend to
the advantage of those that consume sugar, and there-
fore was well worthy of the consideration of the House.
Mr. BOUVERIE said that it was evident that there
was considerable doubt in the House of the passing of
these resolutions a' all, an I therefore the postponement
which had been suggested ought, he thought, to he ac-
ceded to. There was another consideration which re-
quired that the whole s4bject should be reconsidered, and
that was simply a mere question of justice. The fact was,
that there was a large stock of sen4ar at the present
moment in the hands of the wholesale dealers as well as
in the bowie 1 wrebouses of the Government. Now,
upon these stocks, the duty had been paid to Govern-
ment. This duty was raid by the wholesale dealer to
the m T.:hant, under the impresston that he had to look
to the consumer for a repayment of that amount. They
had, in fact, advanced the money to Government as a
species of trustees of the consumer. The Right Hon.
Baronet opposite had stated that the retal dealer had
also paid the duties to the wholesale dealer or the mer-
chant on the stock which he held—that the stock in
the hands of the retail dealers of the country
was doubtless very. extensive. That to return
the duty to them was, in his opinion, impracticable. But
he (Mr. B,uverie) conceived that, sa far as it was pos-
sible, at any rate it was but just that it should be re-
turned. The same objection, however, did not hold
with respect to the wholesale dealer and the merchant.
The return to them was at least practicable, and if it
were rot made to them they would stand, in respect to
the country, very much in the position of the credit .rs of
Pennsylvania, and other portions of the United States,
for they had, in fact, paid money in on account, and
ought to he reimbursed.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK conceived that the measure of
the Government was a practicable measure. The Hon.
Member for Manchester had told them that all its
practicability depended upon the acuteness of the Cus-
tom-house officials.—(" No, no," from the Opposition
benches.) In his opinion there was a wider difference
between East and West India sugar than there was be-
tween that produced by slave labour and free labour,
and as a mere matter of justice a differential duty,
therefore, ought to be imposed on East India sugar. The
Hon. Gentleman had made a claim to a character for
benevolence, which they were now rendering completely
ludicrous. They had passed a great measure for the re-
lief of the labouring population of the West India co-
lonies, and now they desired to drive that labouring po-
pulation to a worse state than ever they had known.
There was a population in those islands of 800,000
individuals, and he did not appeal for the
planters, but fur the poor negroes, whom their
measures would throw into a state of destitution.
There was, as he said, quite as much difference in the
production of East and West India sugars, as there was
between that which was the produce of slave and that
which was the produce of free labour. For these rea-
sons, he hoped the Government would adhere to their
classified scale of duties.
Mr. HASTIE said that he thought it would be better
to postpone the passing of these resolutions until her
Majesty's Ministers had ascertained what it would be
advisable to do with the surplus which they stated to
exist in the coffers of the Exchequer. He believed that
they would, on further inquiry, find that it was a perfect
impracticability to carry their duties into effect. It was,
in his opinion, an utter impossibility for the Custom-
house officers to come to any right decision on the
quality of the sugars imported. There were
so many nice and varying shades of quality in the article
that even persons in the trade themselves were some-
times in a difficulty to ascertain, from mere inspection,
what the quality of a certain sugar was. How then
could they expect Custom-house officers to rightly im-
pose discriminating duties ? The Government he re-
peated would find their measure perfectly impracticab e.
The same errors would arise which had been experienced
in the imposition of discriminating duties on tea. The
duty on bohea was Is. 6d., that on congou 2s. The
Custom-house officers at Liverpool had charged the
duly of 2s. upon a parcel of bohea, under the supposi-
tion that it was congou. The Custom-house officer at London
had done just the reverse of this, having charged Is. 6d.
upon congou, under the supposition that it was bohea,
and these two parties had given a fair instance of what
was likely to arise by imposing a discriminating duty on
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Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer was as tired of the subject as he was, he would
come to almost any resolution. All the West Indies