The Sun.
London, England, 1817-06-24 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

•
. Ornrllll THORNTON, SS the motion of which he bad
igivea notice hail bee in Some respects mitutidertood, wished
to state its object more explicitly. He intended to move for
leave to bring isl a Bill to repeal the law requiring a declara-
tion against. the doctrine of Tiansuhstantiation, and con.
eleintiong the, worship of the Church of. Route as idiligthWi.
He ahoiiia certainly bring the eubject before Iho on
Wydliaiday.
Sir E. 1111.1'DGER gave notice, that on Tuesday, the ail of
July, he should more for a Return of the liquifier of Books
distributed to the Universities and other Public, Bodies, un-
der she Copyright Act, and specifying the manner in which
they had been disposed of,
sir. *apt • !,froin the Trinity House), presented Papers
relative to tile mode of Electing Trinity Pensioners....ot.
dk red to be printer!
Mr. Johnson (from the Office of the Chief Secretary for
Ireland) presented a Return of the Number of PCI4OIII trans.
ported from Ireland under the Insurrection Act.—. Ordered to
lie on the table.
Mr. BENNE'II" presented a Petition from certain Inhatti-
sa,as of the cities of London and Westminster, against the
employment of Climbing Days to.Swecp Chimitsys.—Ordered
to lir on the tablo.
"::or ,Triniiy Doctrine Bill Was read a third time, and
Report of the Usury Laws' Bill was, cm the motion of
sir modiste. ordered to be taken into consideration
on Monday nest.
lu a commit tee on the Coal and Cute] Arts, certain Reso.
Unions were earerd to, fur altering the Males on Coals and
Cilia carried coastwise within the principality of Wales.
lit a Committee on the Corn Laws, Mr. Ltilliingtoo snored
ltewliitian, which went to allow the importation of Corn
from any country in any ship, fur a time to be limited.
sir N. PARNELL wished to know. whar particular circum-
stance rendered inch a measure neceisary ? He doubted not
the propriety of the measure; but he wii.lted to know what
had made it appear desirable to alter, in any respect, the law
made on this siihriect three yean. ago?
14r. LUSHINGTON said, the nietssurs•reeonnuended would
mot at all interfere with the Corn Dill. It would not, gm/ to
regulate the prices of corn,. but merely to allow its import...
Con from soy country in itly ship, fur a given time.
The itos,;l4,th,w was agreed to; tlir House resumed, and
'kayo was green to bring in the Bill.
The at °oiler) Yarn Bill was read a arcoad tiro*, 'and on.
derail to be committed ta.marrow.
Can the motion of Sir JAMES GRAHAM, &writ was or«
dewed for the Borough of Ludgerstiall, in the room of Charles
IViegiot4s 4biaaacr, tiot. who bid accepted the Chiltern Hui*.
The spiritlilntereotarse Bill was read a moral that, and
ordered to lie coolant led to-tior
the Militia Training Bill awl the American Training Bill
were read a third time, and passed.

pitrinoss AoAiNwI"fHE stisPENSION or THE

WAWA* COlt,pus ACT.
Mr. BRAND presented a Petition from certain
Freeholders and Inhabitants of the county of
Berl ford, against the renewal of the Habeas Cur.
pus Suspension Act.-. 41 m Petition was read, and
ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. BRAND said he had another Petition to
preseot on the same subject from an individual.
The petitioner stated that lie had been taken up
in early life under the }lobes Corpus Suspension
Act, and imoisoned for several years. In con.
sequence of this he lust all he bad previously
possessed, and was totally ruined. The indivi•
dual was now in London, was a person of good
reputation, and was again in flourishing 6.cm-
/stances. To him (Mr. Brand), the object of the
petitioner appeared to be rather to repel the
etosrires formerly brought against him, than to
complain of the renewal of the Suspension Act,
howeier mi,cti. he might lament that Goveroment
should consider this to be necessary. The prti.
rimier stated himself to have been Niter) up in the
yesir 1193, end to hare been kept in solitary eon-
Einemeut hsr thirty.two weeks. This took plate
snider the Duke of Portland. The petitioner was
soit.red his enlargement, on his producing two
persons to be bound as his seenthies in 501. each.
tin his refusing to do this, he wes put to the bar
‘with a bookseller 'shorn he had never spoken to
but or, matters of business ; with one person
nation he bad never spoken to ; and with one
VPhillTi be had never been in his life. The Attor-
riey-Uenerei of that day had then floated, that he.
bad no evidence to produce 1471ainest the petitioner,
who was accordingly itegoitted. lie was, how.
re.imprisoned, arof his health became, in
consequenee,serioosly import/ed., and he WEIS then
ofVrett his liberty, on conditino that he should go
ehroed. This offer he refused,. as• he had door
the former, turd wished it to be brought to trial,
that he might have an, opportunity at vindicating
bitreanduct. He was confined et Reading for
*boot three years, when he was brought bark to
.tendon in order to be liberated on his own recog-
viierinee. So little had appearedatgainst 11;6,1110i
every OCCalaCitt he wasotlered his enlargement hill
emit rettioiittnee, or oa his swine; two seeuritiis 4

bound in the small Solt of AIM Siva oNers cool()
not be easily justified, if the person bad commit-
ted an offence of so 'feint:qv, a name as to merit
the puoishnient to which: he had been sublected.
On his being brought back to London be was tar-
ried bCfore Mr. Justice Ford, who congretolated
him on his being ninon to be released, after suf.
tering so long a confinement, on a condition merely
nornieal—ou his entering into a recognizance of
10001. This offer he refused, as he was in eft-
'Peet at tote that the Suspension would soon be taken
off, when lie intended bringing his action for the
imprisonment he had sustained. Disappointed
in this hope, he had at length availed himself of
the offer which lord been made, and was set at
liberty. When the habeas Corpus Act was suf-
fered to expire, he Commenced ,legal proceedings
against those by whom he had been confined,
when he was stopped by a Bill of Indemnity,
which then, es he (Mr. Brand) thought, was Inc'.
properly passed ;, and thns he was precluded from
seeking redress; :amt front' vindicatiog his charac-
ter. The iustieldual had then nothiug to do:but
to declare, as be now did in this •Petition, before
biecountry, personated" ,hythat Honse, end
as he also declared with epos' , solemnity before
Almighty God, that he never, Was- in any way
guilty of tharwhich he understood to have berm
imputed to him. The Hon. Member took aces.
Sion to say, he stinuld have little objection to
13141 Miiiiiters with the Habeas Corpus Suppe!).
shin, it they could themselves ste, all the eases to
which it was applied. 'The Petitioner believed
himself to have been subjected to the bard.
ships ahreve stated, through the Machittatians
of a person of infainoes character, who was em-
ployed to give information to tiovertinient, and
who, at the instance of the Petitioner, hail been
expelled on }medium of his bad conduct from a
Society to which he had belonged. The holi•
victual from whom the Petition came, finally.proy-
ed that if the House had any:dimbt respecting his
conduct, that they would permit him 'to vindicate
himself at heir bar ; attic et all events called anion
them not to aeCede to the Measure oboist to be pro.
nosed against the Lherties Of the country.
Mr. littougli 4)4 lucre took OCCalitill to, coil the
attention oldie tionk to acircarnstence which had
recently occurred, not immediately connected
with the suhicet before the 1-10iise ; he alluded to
*Misrepresentation of whet lie had said on Friday
last, which. had appeared in a Newspaper. He
was the very last person in the House to complain
of such a breech of privilege, hot in a case of ins.
perious necessity. lie did not intend to move
that the Printer of the Newspaper which he al•
hided should he called to the Bar, but it was ad•
milted on all hands, that there were limita beyond
which such mis-stntements ought not so he allow.
ed to pass; which could not be exceeded without
laying the party concerned under the necessity of
contradicting them. In this preditarrient he now
stood. A meat false, groundless, and as he could
not help thinkieg, a malicious publication, bad
taken place with respect to him. its Nu Evening
Paper of last Saturday. It appeared its the *hope
'of a comment on the debate of Friday, and he
thought another Member' had a right to complain
of the article as well as himself—the Noble Lord
opposite, one of the Members for Yorkshire (Lord
Lascelles,) since a sitedek had been pot inter hie
mouth oldie') he lied never uttered.. it !tad been,
asserted that the'Nohle Lord had stated its direct
terms that he (Mr. Brougham) tool been guilty of
a wilfull misrepresentation. 1t Wai ot►neressaryto
say, evet, if The diaracter of the Noble Lord op-
posite were not known to he shirectly et veriauce
with such conduct, that this could not he true.;
language like, that imputed to him could not he
used in that 1im0... The Noble Lord bad saidl
that concessions were made on both sides in the
Committee. He (Mr. Broiiiihatit) might he par,
stoned when he said (since coorcSsioes of facts
could not he made) that he (the Noble Lord) had
used an improper repression. He had afterwards
done justice to the Noble Lord's meaning,
when he understood that he had !imam to Say,
corrections were supplied on both sides. All the
reports in the other papers wed e correct, or at least
free from the offensive inaccuracy complained of.
'that which he now took occasion to refer to ws*
one of the most offensive that lord ever occurred
amongst the many instances of reisrepaetentatioo.
The comment had appeared in the courier on
report which was published in the Moruint
Chronicle. and his reason for thinking; the lois.
representalion not unintentional was, that in au.
other part of the same Paper there appeared a cot,.
re':, and inoffensive report of what had actually
passed. This he had slionOt it right to hike
souse notice Of, as it was really a ease which al.
most called for the interference of the House, in
order to protect other Members from similar treat.
mot.

Lord LASCELLES had been as Much Ofetided R 9
/1011. Gentleman could be when be read the
article referred to. It was a complete mil-state-
ment, and to hint it appeared to have been taut
invidiously made. He had sat in drat House
many years, but bad never been in the habit of
making statements calculated to woond the feel-
ings of others. He had been the r"..vore shocked
at tvikit had been mentioned, from seeing a correct
report of whist pursed in another part oldie same
Paper. This had proved to him that it must have
been iniendoodfly done. He might have been a
little irritated at the-moment in consequence of
the wish eysprested by the Learned Gentleman,
that his (Lord Lascelles) speech should he printed
and circulated with the Report, tit* he hatisupposeil
this meant to charge him with having said some-
thing that was ludicrous or not quite correct, and
on this he had said, that be was not accustomed
to rise for the, purpose of misrepresenting facts.
He disclaimed all personal animosity towards the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman, or any other
Menrber, and declared what be had said . to have
originate., in the mere irritation of the moment.
Mr. BnotionAst gave credit to The Noble Lord
for Isis candid stns, manly conduct on all occasions.
He had been satisfied that he (Lord Laseellers)
would be as tinsels flifensled with the article be had
noticed, ris he (Mr. Brougham), Isitoself
What he had raid only tome out of the circuits •
stance i..)f concessions hying beets mistaken for
corrections.

The Petition (pre.onted by Mr. Aram]) vas. then reit]. It
wa., from Full Ttp..aq f.r Mititre, of 1 ortrliarol-.treet.
sir Ai )11N Nkttl'OUT gave notiev, that *thrill the Bill
%Welt Unix yetitifan %rit, Atirc.cte+l4g:tinict,it4ould *et to ft C4J/41.,

thittet, propos', a dense. the. object 'of whit!: wa;tld
bar to limit this duration ut the nitiasure to the in ut
-ember.
The Petition was then ordered to tie on the table.
Sir C. MORDAUNT presented lietitioni from the Count?
of Warwick, against the Stispension of the Habeas Corpus
Act. He had been requested to present and support the
prayer of the petition, but with the lest pert of tins request
be could not comply.
Mr. DUGDALE, fromt various eirctunstanees which hod
lately occurred its several counties, was of opinion the sus-
pension of the Habeas Corpus Act seas iiitssafy to the
safety of the country.
The petition Wel then read, and ordered to lie on the tablet
Mr. PEEL presented Papers respecting the Charges fur
embodying the Militia in Ireland,-..Ordered to lie un the
table.
On the motion of Mr. TIERNEY, Accounts of the Beebe-
quer Bills now outstanding, and of the Unfunded Debt, up
to the latest period to which the same could be made
were ordered to be laid before the House.
Nir JAMES MACKiNTosii postponed his motion respect=
ing the bruits of the Crown till Tuesday next.
, HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION BILL.
The Order of the Day tor the first reading of
the Bill front the Lords, for suspending the Ha-
beas• Corpus Act, having been read,
'Lod CASTLISREAUFI said, no individual could feel
More deepfy than lie did, the importance of that
measure which he now considered it to be his duty
to recommend to the House. He was sensible of
the heavy responsibility which must fall on those
who called for it, and on all hands. it must be ad.
ntittetho be a serious- encroachuienc on the rights
of the subject, during the time for which it was
to be continued. It then became i question,
whether the internal state of the .country was
such as to Can for so -strong a measure,—whether
the ordinary lawi were sufficient-a-or whether, if
these were not suffi, icor, other measures, less
strong than the Suspension of she Habeas Corpus,
ought hot to be resorted to? In argUing on this
measure, he protested at- the outset against any
inference being drawn, that MiniSters, in forming
their judgment on it, were subject to any undue
bias iii its favour. He trusted that be was ad-
dressing an audience who were too
,feirly clisa
pined, to believe such powers wouitthecalled for
if the Members at the Administration believed the
Government of the country could safely go on
%%idiom them. Nothing but a Sense of duty—but
a conviction, that for the safety of thelOyal amid
the peaceable, and for the preservation of the
Constitution itself, they were necessary, could,
Ile was certain, have made them content to take
upon themse[ves that arduous responsibility which
.attached to a measure like that now under the
consideration of the House. He hope(' their past
conduct WWI such, HS to prove they would Hot
have advised the continuance of the Habeas
Corpus Suspension Act, if they Were Hot sa-
tisfied, that of all the measures that could be
resorted to, this would be the most ellectunl, and
might, as.it would be used, prove least injurious
to the people at large. The Course pursued by
Mioisters, in confining the measure to ibis part
of the kingdom, and in limitiog to time as they
loot dune, must, he thought, prove to every im-
.portial person, that they were unts.llm.g to over-
step the necessity of the case, or to apply the Iw
when in force to any but its legitimate objects—
the preservation of the Coustitmion, and the pro-
tection of the loyal and lie wish.
ed_the House to decide on its adoption or rdec•
lion, purely front the feet' which were betnaiitit
belote,then. lie protested egainst the infeteitce
(;last bad been daown, that to brim% iu n Y3ill .lat•
this was to libel the whole country, and to prefer
a general Bill of indictment against the People of
Logland. He did not call for this tileitSal e against
the people ; but, on the contrary, he demanded
it fur theM, in order to protect tern in the exer-
cise of their industry against the Machinations of
agitators, which west hostile to their interests, as
they were to those of the country at large. The
adoption of .such a measure' might alarm those
who knew themselves to be guilty of 'treasonable
designs ; but, its his.consrience, lie believed the
loyal and peaceable port of the community would
feel no uneasiness about it, but, on the contrary,
would be grateful for the passing of the Bill,
which they would regard as a measure of protec-
tion. He argued, at some length, in opposition
to those who were,olopittion, that supposing trea.
suitable designs to exist, those by whom they were
entertained were too insignifx!ant to merit the seri-
'Ous at mention of Parliament. Though happily the
disaffection was confined to are lower orders, yet
still he contended the danger was formidable. He
chewed the lower classes of the manufacturers to
be confident in their own strength ; to posses*
considerable acuteness, knowledge of the law, and
iogennity to 'erotic it. To the mentitacturers he
stated these designs to be h great measure re.
stricted. They had studied precedents Irons the
history of the treasons of former times, and it seas
not necessary in his mint; for higher characters to
Fake part with them to enable them to sneceed if
they were not well watched. They might at any
ewe succeed so far as to cover the country %s 1 I)
desolation for a tittle. He wished the attention
of the House to be directed to two points---the
consideration of the events which preceded the
15th of April might first deserve their consiavtli•
tins,. Is would then he for them to kok to what
bad occurred auhstlyteitt to that period. This di-
eition of the subject, according to dates, e thought of some importance. Those who, had
formerly opposed tl e IlabeasTorpos Sospensiou
might, be thonght now, with the adnitionsl
expetience they possessed, feel justified in sup
porting time Rill for renewing that Act ; but he
could hardly thitsh it po3sible that those who con-
curred with him on the former occasion could op-
pose the present Bill, as the case fur its renewal
Wes infinitely stronger than that snide out for
passing the low now in force. Not only had ad-
ditiohat ronspiracies beets discovered, but, in
the late inqiiiry, the' former conspiracies liatt
heels confirmed ; anti now to refuse to re-
new the Bill would' give a fresh impulse to
the traitors is) the enontry, who would de-
rive iniditional strength end courage from the
Alinibers now In cesstody, wholwould then be en-
aided to join them. and assist in time proseention
of their desigus Re (Jellied that the result of
the fete trial proved that there was no treason in
the country, though Saotl forbid that he should
arraignthe decision come to, by
Person could. the Jury. No
he thought, aims his eyes to this
tact, that there was treason imv the conntry----(se-
per:sting it front the hotividopris lately on their
deliverance)..--se every rhitnr, Chad hod traimpired
went. to prove that tart. Those tvhty supported
the Suspentiosbeof the Habeas-. CtarDos 4 --

t commencement of the present SesSion, c"141„1",!
in his opinion refuse io vote for the present DPO,
supported as it was by such an accumulation.;
additional evidence. lie was' nxious that Ow
events down to the 15th of Apl should be",
sidered separately, because he expected an nii;
tempt would be made to create a belief an
conspiracies which had been formed,
great measure brought about by the einiwrifi
Government sent into the country for that-1
pose. Mr. Oliver, who was supposed to .11
moving cause of all he sheved, did not
London before the 17th of April, mg° 011ibil
mission.—(llenr, hear !)—lt ivas
that on explosion bed been intended with'
he could have nothing to do. This would
from the reading of the second Report of
had been
cret Committee, unless they obsoluottydis!
it. Three periods, it might be seen, iv(
tined., at which an etfort was to-have bet
and at three several times the conspire
brought their preparatiims so neatly
tt
al to think of naming the day abich
to proceed to action. II) ttau of.the't
was quite ,'clear that Mr. Oliver could
thing to 'lo with the designs of the co.
—that no pert of their proceeding'
Ascribed to his exertions. That per
been sent down to encourage the d
riot and insurrection. The tact was
come incidentally possessed of some
reviving their designs, which he 11
cared to the Government at a Glue
not known to the Secretary of Start
leave town till the 17th of April,: t
nod had the Treason in agitee
more malignant character tient t
longed to it on the 30th of
the destruction of :41anchester
ed. This was before Mr. Olis
municrn ion with the Goverom4
%es only frustrated by the ar
legates. With these proc'eidine
oh the gib March, Jr. Oliver 1
whitever. He had never been
try, to encourage the disaffeetc
treason. It migl.t be that tl
person in the character vebicr
of ti Delegate from London, V
in some instances to encoure;
but he apprehended the Gover
if they had reason to believe
were in contempletion, as the
of, to %rod down somebody
ties were about. Oliver WE
for this purpose, and nut to
he was to he a spy to any ►
tore. The fact was, be wa
gate from the country—a I
known character, to sea
which existed -*here be
told that if London wou
the people of the coot,'
risk risiug by thew,
nothing at all to do wig
,etc, and another [elide
them, The person con
bad been about to lea
standintt be effort' was
lee determined to rem.
With
Vited;,to go into the cr
tentlicated to Governe
thee he ought to avid'
or not. He was ant
had been base enongi
to acts of violence, e
been informed of hit
this. Those who no
conduct had been si
only object was Pa
taken Mr. Oliver I
before a
Megistrati
signs of a ditTeren
to them to do tb
trietly over. A
Mr. Oliver mu
which it was Intl
Monday, and u-B
g:b of June. I!
liberations of M
and did not lea
evening of that
Whet hod takes
could not be
Oliver had or
it wria imposs
bert this be (1
no ins, retri..,
to have tieket
been geiltyci
there 'WA, re
materially c
plosion o-f
of the man
With respe
had ietra
magnificer
stilted by
to hare it
Ineutione
his
.prate
Governn
prevent
the fiehl
efilcts ?
duty.
from e
sidereil
knew.
00 Sr
vidual
prupc
eider,
Kive
more
ado!
mut
rat)
tin
ev
01,
CT
7

. .•
dd not 11 Abreh Cnlal!ired ley (}liver. 1:11( that lie h
It bilf„ Iluedece.ssors itt that la,Al,ible cottr•c•—
dont t from the Opposii011)--Macy
1"/ been in the confidence of Govern-
le cap' 12' bat he coithl only, speak of Oh ere The
In
i":"lihtikidu:lls had been rated in the Cant-
le Ind he supposed the statement to be car-
riet jut, ti• tto association existed in certaill counties
never existed before in England, of a
blatafy and atrocious k but not con-
be 111
billtd,aith politics. He alluded to the Luddites,
17:4 most atrocious suggestions had pro-
is 17 from them, though it was also highly pro-
! fltrlt Lit that some of than had mixed politics with
rehirTotconsideratious. But the great ma;, of the.
rttl 'lever meant _to engage in any bloody. or
hr insti rrec iou . They hall only associated
!bet :91e purpose of p..,liamentary Reform ; thought
jar
Llainilted that some might have had in iretv
Istle.iglis. The Committee, as he had observed
rs kici,L,lormer occasion, had ass,rted nothing of
l'°`llll 'e could kowe of nothing except from' the
t.selT to a certain length ; be had been a party
~I,eit'ording of the Report, but he vouched for
c 7"lay, to the Muse. It
ittabtef a appeared that a delegate
to Lonelott hi the mouth of March, tend
ti,-„Ll*s°l),swllose name be should not :ninth-in,
had gone,to America, that the pen.
ei'be Lk country were tired of the present state
)further that it was 10$ intention to give !dwell
11- trouble., and that lit shook] leave the
nti„,111; ;;4117,' tip agreed ttpott that this delegate and
t,'4,lllters should leave London, and that Oliver
tr-r , illkeree more Should go to thte,countrY, which
111; 'a *IV accordingly. Oliver had, howeve!', pre-
trijr.,4llPlied to the Secretary of State for the
14-Liepartment, from whom he obtained per-
it tone But no evidence had appeared from vi
Itl~tldhe inferred that he had been desired to en-
cl/.0 into becoming accessories CO any plot.
Rosailed sithstopently to Anteriea, and Oliver
tila,T,irudoccd by the delegate to his friends in tele
1"Ia Y, who were told by biin to reg ttil Oliver
Odle ki`hletthld self, and he was every where held up
tu-of.
I`t trnildna Delegate. He iciliained in the
4Y for it month, and returned to London on
Dfrt
second of June. The Delegate said that the
th
41`Ple ill the re.,„„riy looked to London for sup-
Occ; I,'"?",(lteitr, hear o—and. Viver was asked as
ittl: strength of their friends in London.—
that Le did not come into the country
,1t0,4,4„wer inch questions ; but their friends were
'lt'Ler in the country than in London, and
kr-a titr„rinion would not stir until the country
to,„:' first, in which event Loudon would
bo ll,tls forward
; and hat in the Eastern and
16e, INterb Districts there were 150,000 men Irked-
ilie cause, thought Oliver said that he had
iJh 4,oOnlstill" the number in Spa-fields to be
,„)'lO itotive who were ready to coma forward. Nothing
', 11,1 tie so likely to stir tip the country as such
FT; 14:e---(Hear!)--though he did not charge
101 f)11(14,,,i/lbet int with any such intention ; though the
b.. 1 been adopted would natur4llY
tri; that had taken Ogee. He (Mr'
to, k 4 asked Oliver if be knew any party, in Lou*
ttho nacre ready to coerttio ate witl) the.
411(1 "4 been answered in the negative ;
der he had retell? • •answer when he
‘11"1"1111e
k " "liar
the coun-
who tltty man of rank in
'l tub Posed to co-operate in such
eter ear, heae.)--;-The clelegete who took
t.O the country bad told bilt none. to
!If t:1! P!e we* to he the Organ of ocotruttilitAt ton-
s:
it° c"tetible then most such a conspiracy be.
tit mo •
tunao sny note w a. engaged !
,
0,1 out a sing t
hiii2"ll a plea sufficient to war
rant such all
Rieithetst, sod/ inroad upon the Con,tittitin
!II "I' tries or Hear, hear ! from the Opposition.)
itere It° doubt were some rioters io the country;
• ' h
141 the Habeas Corpus Act oil
Itfhat ac_ count
sus tended all over Englandl---(
14°1 not
the way tot le iislation the
11*
w4put a stop toeilsrit'cliitetatrrelti
Igt, nor was a general act o
rye Iv
tit, Inedy. The remedy should kbe of a local
a
q); !ICA and adapted to the
f'r'totin% b t. trevailed•
place where I.ttril.
.....(11eae,hear!)
s: u or Ina to 1
lites should be thorotighly
1.41,1 lent of the Ludt should he
14, ''oed out and exattliorti, ar.d till • „ „in
He
'lathing could be effected. From that "''
pro,
ceded that men had become quite intlillete.nit
liag'•e!l;res of their fel low - citizen 3, and lnr 20 sht -
ktte 4°41 associate wi;lt those who'll. they
'lit :4"11 ill their lives before. That system
11 'reltest stain that England
, ,„ had ever suffered ;
I Out for
4ite l'o"Y 'et of men should hot themselves
Idke nway the lives of their fellow-creatures. •
eat ton of be Habeas Corpus Act would
t4t4rl"ll°‘an the evil, as it would we Act, the ate
teen
tri„ ,t 9f the people to that Goveroment that
r-•eu ti
I lent of such an intmlitable
he cared hv a
privilege.—
ts4r, !).—The evil etonld no'
ilernent five six months, tht intlivi-
„, 01 or
:Qtsiti be again turned loose upon the contom.
-IPott being released from their confitiement,
nttitsare propostd was quite inefficient for the
I~alntt!itat though lie was thankful it Was hot
propose or to provide a remedy. The
combittation ought to be Pun shed, or"
l'lttawrthi be effected. The conduct that hat!
Pitt tirP"ice in the country bad been impelled by
4tltetrrnstance of Oliver having Appeared as it
tteti;:e from London, nor was there an) „
af-
kelt, except among a few of the lower order 9f,
a."""cre. it was surely hard that all
'lie the fault of a few.---(Hoer, hear !)--In*ail "Port of the Coniudtt et of 1812, mach
hes: atrocities had been stated than upon the
to 6ceasion ; hut no proposal had been made
Ear Pend 41
l'iiPend the provisions of the Act of Habeas
'gest o'2 rrom that lime down to the present. all
4th "NO bad lice!) 14,„:og on, 1! its the duly
hi
In enquire into the nature of the
,!1/110„.11,:inns to wch he had alluded, nod by
• -**-4 these etotthinationi tratoptillity would
Nth4;4t
lilY restored in the disturbed districts,
the 1t hay', s 'on of the
I.lg recourse to the uspenst
'ttir b" Corpus Act, wl, wie not necessary,
• l
J.tt nr,„ evils complained
ip • r,'• reloroy for llie
1111 e „,111141, theretOte, oppose the first marling
le.lLLll.—(Ulear, hear !)
-111t1 tt "n started, that the Magistrates,
lc,'" who were hest acquainted us jib ill
elreutost„
!ices of the oi.ooriteti districts,
ulttitf (4)Plidolt that the oldy thetworc which mild
1,141 repress insurrection, %vas the
toe habeas Corp.'s. He theftlueL,, 46 istreires liont the charge of inlet ivity, Ito
'titled .1. _

r'o

folfilment of their . It was; not in the I
power of theoriimary law 4 to tlowo Luddism,
lie maintained, though he did not know hint per-
sonally, that Oliver's moral Character was seirje,:t
to no impittatiots.(llear,-bear, hear ! trout the
Opposition.)-4le then stated -that the • Grand
Juries of Leicester, Derby, and Ntittingham, had
.reeononended the re-enactment of the Frame
Breaking Bill, as the only remedy capable of
counteracting existing evils.,--(Hear, hear, hear!
from the opposition.)
Mr. AORtICUOMAIS hail never heard a less con,
vincing speech. The lion; nenilier had dealt its
assertions, but without giving any reason to prov.,
them, or if he did, his reason went dirtooly against
'the assertions which tie nail made. Titus he had
stated, that according to the opinion ot roe Magis-
trates, the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act
was the only measure which could prove tleetive,
and then he ad led, that the Grand Juries of Lei-
cester, Derby, and Nottingham, had recOntinenil,
ed the re-enactment of the Frame-breaking Bid
as the only remedy to existing dangers, and that
at the very time when the Suspension of the Ha-
beas Corpus was in 'force. This gave a forcible
contradiction to the -necessity of that measure.
As to Oliver, tie was astonished, after what had.
been heard of him this night. that any man could
be foetid in that House to say, that los moral cha-
racter was totimpeuched, lie objected to intrust-
ing powers like the present to a person against
chum so many coustitutional questions had lately
/hero raiied, He alluded to the case of the Read-
ing Jail, Lord fkidinouth's Circular, atilt the cm.-
ployment of Oliver. • He maintained that as I0!.g
I us Ministers suspended the tlaheas Corpus ACt,
and brought on trials for constructive treason,
• they would obtain no conviction's. but would con-
teftoi e to e:',..nete the hearts of the people from
thco Guy',
Mr. Lewi F.LCK explained.
Mr. Bract Ay contended; that the Noble Lord
had magnified the greattie:.s of he esil, and doui.
nished the strength of the lawt. already iu -xistence
to repress it. The Report aloe!: •.t as sufficient to
prove the total y of Cie persons represent.
ed a combining .o verturn I tie Governm.oo tie
agreed with the Chancellor of the Fo.chequer
that the tome of the comory wa, impraving, and
thought that that improvement would act Most
effectively towards potting down insurrection,
without any measure like the present.
Mr. IVit.iSieoßCß bolt as marts 6•ltietance
as
any man to s,,snend for a while the best loofa irk
of our CullStithlioll, kit thought ID the I resent
instance, that the safety of the country rendered
sect) a measure necessary. He contended that
i the disturbances in the country wete not the
dices
ot,mere Luddism, but that they bore a ii rung po-
litical character. v were IllitrniVV,; by men;
not indeed of property, 1)11t ii e,.osid,o-ilde energy
of mind, who work:-I nn d people all vady °pelt to
seduction by its own dioceses. They might. thug
produce a spirit .0 dissatisfaction throng', the v,ist
body of the pe ,pie, and 11:at most valuable of all
classes, the workto4 class. He ,:outeudett that
the evidenee die otit de•ty that individoals
be connected with the instirgenta in the country,
but merely that Oliver knew nothing of any
such person oe associetion. If (oserved the
Honourable Gentleman) th. re kid tre ben no eon-
'mobil' with Le! don, why should the eeople
of :Manchester on, it 4 neighbourhood haVe
sat Watching the comiti4 in of the 'mails, When
they hoped that lilt Tower aid the Bank would
be taken. , lie ,had !lot- kow, any wen-affected'
person having aity strong oojettion to the mea-
sure.--(Hear, hear !• fr,on the Uppositiou.),:--It
it were entirely left at the disposal' of MOsist'..rs,
like the Lettres de Crwhet in a neiglihouriug Loon-
try (shouts of i is nr, hear ! from the t reposition),
then it might be d ineerons, es it might more
likely be ;these& But he did not eonsider it
its
that point of view. Ile acknoisledged that the
measure would he stronger thin when first enact-
ed, os it would emit tune whilst the Patti went did
not sit ; hot soy abuse would be speedily discovei
and discussed in the House at its re-tiol,m• There
would he great danger in allowing *hose persons,
who had already been taken up and prevented
from doing more mischief, again to be let loose
among the lower order—again to tel to their
noxious practices—agaio to distort) the pea,.e of
society, and perhate. execote their, plans tor the
.subversioo of rhi Constitution. When he eon-
sidered what had been already done by those
persons, how Mitch more had been attempted.--
ei e attens to &bench the soldiery ---(1 laugh,
atid Hear, hear! from t he Opposition.)—Members
might laugh, but which of them would laugh at
hieing reminded that by t'utie• very attempts the
bad been bronght to trial, hurl had so
nearly paid the forfeit of their lives ? And was
this matter of laughter ? Upon the whole purs-
uits, when he considered the contents of the first
Report, and also of the second—when he reflected
how materially the peace of society, and the ex-
istence of good order, depended on furnishiog the
Government with power to punish the disorderly
—when be considered the awful respousihtlity
Incurred by Government in the exercise f th
ljillese
powers, he could not but vote for this
(llear, hear !)
Lltrd Atanoers.---The speech of the Houour-
able Gentleman who spoke last, although very
eloqueitt, bad yet completely failed in couvineing
ben of the necessity 01 furnishing the Execuhictive
Goveri at, tit with the very great powers wh
they now demanded. He thought that Ministers
bad entii-cly failed in mak o g out such a caowese
rs.
as
to jos, the necessity of granting th p
Even it di that the Reports of the Committees
containers was allo,, ed to be true, a sufficient case
had not made out. But wheel it was Min
i..
sidered 111" very 11141471 i the facts alleged
the Repet. had Frets mistaken,
the ease
against was intieli stronge. In the first
Report it v. said, that the disarffected in the
moropors 1,1 uss toned the Ft ruch revolt'.
tionary arthle,, but it bad been proved that
this was tuts In,. case; but on the contrary, that
the lia;_s and eat,_:L:de of the rioters were not of
the Elem., but green, white and red,
adopted Iron) some ~braid notions about nature,
justiet: He
.tinteti that twiny of
those.. who had supported this bill in the early per
~tt of the Seseitm wonitl vote ogaittst it how„, for
(le ~as a wittc difference het keeen intriist
kxecutive with ,ItiCtt extraordinary
,posveri

during the Session of Pio•hi:Anent, and continuing
those,powers during iti piAlrogatiOn. To talk of
confidence. in Goyernutent was no argument when
the question was about the safegoari." 'al the Con-
stitution. • It was also to he observed, that this
Act had nothing to do with the exertinhs 01 itla-
gistrates, to whom it gave no new power. Ou , he
whole, he hoped the House would see the neces-
sity of rejecting this Bill.
Sir SAMUEL ROMiLLY did not think that all who
voted for the first Bill were bound to vole for the
present. If he thought it expedient that the mea-
sure should pass he worsts give It his support ;
but, on the fullest Inquiry, he felt satisfied, that
so far from being a remedy, it would and m ~r~
continue to aggraVate the rail. '1 he present Litli
was of greater importance than the first, because
they could not know the extent of its duration,
nor could the House have any gaard over the
execution of the law, as they would not be sit -
ting. If the Bill passed, he hoped it would be li-
mited to December, or at least that the liarliament
would then be called, that they might know the i.e-
Solt of this measure. What was the 'effect of the
former Bill? It would spear as it treason mot
conspiracy had grown. up took:- it. The danger .
was said to exist among the lower orders, and to
he excited hy artful men. Was it not ptittiog
weapons into the hands of those men to depose
the people of is-hat they were in the habit of con-
sidering their most valuable right, and that too at
a time when they were calling fora Reform of
Parliament ?—(Hear. hear !)---The report had
been until) spokees by late events. Men art csted
under .the former Act had not only not been
brought to trial, but the Government even avoid
ed a trial. One hundred and forty persona were
taken into custody at Mati.chester. Some were iii-
dieted, but not one of them was tried, and a Cer t io-
rani was sent down from Government to prevent
them from being tried, that is to prevent the sa-
lutary effect which an example of punishment
might have produced. This conilect eniild he at-
tributed to nothing else but a fear an the part of
Government, that something might appear to
prove that things had been exaggerated, What
had been done by the Law Officers of the
Crown, after all the hustle and business that
had been excited ? The only case of libel,
at least of tried. libel, was that of a person
of the name of Wooler, and even this a as
an offence which had been provoked and pro-
duced by the very Rill now under the con-
sideration of the Houa,:. But if they wished
really to know the effect of the metishre, they
I bad 4 imply to refer to that part of the Report of
their Cc.mmit tee which 'rated that they could not
contemptite what passed in the country without
the moo synous apprehensions, though they re:
commendcd the most effectual way of keeping
such epprehensions up. In addition to this, their
Report went on to state, that the measures whit h
had been taken had by no means extinguished
the spirit of delegation; that the leathers of revolt
were without number, as every village had its
Hampden Club. It things vt..re arrived at this
height, who,would contend that it was possible
to itirprison .411 those characters whom the Act
might happen to include / If they believed
their own Reports, the most ularming danger
to be apprehended was that relating to the
Luddites, for it was pretty clear, according to
that document, Luddiam and disaffection were 1
Synoninlnos terms. The Hon. Memhet for lois '
restershire (Mr. L. Keck) could never hr so irra-
tional as to suppose that an Act like th.. prettily,
with all ifs powers, would have the effect of 'sus--
pendiog Luddiam. The report, as he understood
it, stated that the instil geol.* had looked to
London in vain], because there was no &Sal-
feetion in the metriipolis. The present Bill
would aggravate the evil which was supposed to
exist. flow his Honourable Friend (Mr. Wilber-
forre), sup;osing sock dange.s to exist, could
derive airy consolation from the circumstance
of absolute pobver being entrusted to one nom he
amid not conceive ; it formed one of the melau-
eholy signs of event U tinv.3 to perceive that %Hilt
au opinion was glinting ground. Still he could
not accustom himself to the light manner in
which sonic individuals talked of the Concitti-
don, and who regarded It as a mere peg to hang
on the Crown. A Noble Lord (Castlereagh)
secure;) to pride himself for not hav'nra extended
the Ilubens Corpus Suspension to Irelend. He
could with no grace extend the mettsuee In Scot-
land, after the Address tot' Cr.: General Assembly
hail cleared them from the village of disaffection.
The measure was to be follovied up by it Respon-
sibilay Act, at the end of the Session, but which,
of course, the Noble Lord's modesty would not
permit him to ;aoprose beforehand. Toe country
was 4:ivided into two parties, in which struggle
the GoVernment were availing themselves of the
violence of the people. Where this system of
divisimi and destraetion would end, it was impos-
sible to say; since it accorded with the temper
of his 'Airtji.,l y's Mrnisters to lessen all Contidence
in public men, by lowering then; to the level of
obloquy, till the people had nothing to look up to.
Mr. Wil.tireaOttCH explained.
Mr. BANKES was aware of the difficulty of
answering the Hon. amid Learned tit bllcimto ('hr
S: Romilly),—(Heae, heat ! ' from the Opposi-
tion) ; but he spoke shortly in favour of the Bill,
contending that it was more necessary during the
proroption r;ian dutiug the witting of puinii,,..
null,.
Lord MILTON spoke strongly against the Bill,.
Ile lamented that in supporting the hill in the
early part of the Sessi:ow, be. hall bier ohlicet 7,
differ from his dearrst friends, but t: as ritM` litippy
to agree .with them in reprob:4.;ig the proposer 1
measure, as he considered it hoill unnecessary Hod
impolitic. Ile wished to force Ministers to dit
just ire by 1)11111811111g thoso who have been criminal,
wliich %timid do mgr: e to restore trantptillity then
ay thing else that could de adopted. It WAS iii
'l;iil of attainder which deprived the pea-pie of their
constitutional tights. 'fire history of the Habeas
Corpus Act proved4bat it was our barrier against
the power ot the Crown. which hail always in.
ereinaal He Ituetv no Ministry who were not
indond to increase that power. He was one of
those who thought that the greatest harm that trail
been done to this country was the language and
the publications which) bad beet) held and circus
laird. Nothing could tenth more to deWatle an-
thurity than to make the people belooor, that

such an Act as that of the Habeas Corpus was of
lode or no value. Ile ~i;a twit ti 4,Ce
this power io.the hands of Jan.us 11. or Alinisters
%VIM' Waithi lbliSe it, than in the hands tit t' ose.
who pi ofess to niethe measure miloly. us
only restore pro-iperit y to the eouutry, an,l we
should hear no more of disitlft•ct ion or alarms.
Nit. CUUI:TENAY (of .ii‘ettr) I,,otight it was.
giving. an unfair reuresentmiou of what hal passel!,
on his side tit the lioo• e, to itsert t :;t1 tike po t el'S
o be vested in Ministees were ittiLly
lie went at some length into.ii geuerti dufenee of
the measure, and said, he gavo-t rqiit to the sett-
intents hi the Report, which lie conceived spoke,
the f,sir scum: of the evidence. If he I,ond the

.........
evil existing In Ave or six connfies in Lnglaud, ll'
not he pi toent to k„+•e the whole of the'
other parts exposed :o the inthtence of the inedi.

ated

Sir .1,)11I4 NEWPORT Wag 11,:11111StIrthlor
Suspension, Mild Ui cottrieOaltl vote n;;,tiost the
14111.
Mr, W. Et.etoT would pass by the grounds of
the measure h lug an eneroachment on the Cote..l
,tourion, Inc Pertiament having moved to it,
set.' the right of renewing the Act, the point at
now was, whether we were in suflieient se,4
entity to abandon the measures which had pro.,
tested us. It had been proved that there was a
system in acti,n to corrupt, morally and you ti-
callv, the most extensive and efriiielit pot of root
population. The d whit+ be telt, did
not result from partial distutharium. but Irma
the peretar inniti and tiisposition of the
peiiple ; for who could observe the conduct
of :the Deblates without fret ug that' pneauA
ton .was absolua. ly ft, cessei y ? If this princi•
pie wet 1,1 alat: • it *mild work root love
loon's into higher (•lati,o,, „,f the cointounity.--.4
There were ~, it alto iollurnee
on the public atiud. cold doubt that
the object •of time ;Wee' ester exptdition wet
force.—(Hear, hear 1)--The den, i;liFtiles to4z..
tangoed ; the people followed. Then the delete mon
of tin' leaders would operate as q salutary precau-
tion; and by detaining them their dependents
were confounded and disheartened. If we were
nose to withdraw the measure, we shoold give
them a fresh impulse. He therefore not only
gave his vote for it, bin he was ready to at knowA
leder thallie bad joined iii recommending it, be.
cause lie was couviored• that it was calculated. tq,
protect the ,hest oil et. ati ci the efloillty
Mr. BattLIGHANI, payilig a high eompliMent
to his 1114111 Ifou Friend Who had just sp,mL-o,
pioceinlati to &tail of his differi!nee
from his Right Hon. opinion. I.,..very one
tail acktiowledged anti a the adoption ut the
proposed-rneasure was it painful necessity—t'ott
nothing could justify it but an absolute, hiiperioo 4,
over-ruling necessity. The question, therefore,
was simply this—had we evidence of such a ne-
cessity in the pi esent case ?To that question he •
would say (I 1)1)." He' imputed Hiotises 110
Matt, a ti least of all would Lie impute to the
Committee an intention of %% MO dee, ption. Ali
he pretended to any was, that men might honestly
be mistaken. Very collide:110,01y they might
be more alarmed than the facts warranted. It
was in the nature of alarm to be
.infectotha, and
those who Were aliirmed themselves naturally en.
deeyonted to elatin others. Ile would venture,
however, to say, that .had all been known three
months ago which was knoten ell the present mu.
meat, the coistory would never have had the First
Report of the Committee. Toe Learoed Gentle~
mats. then entered into an account of the plan of
the conspirators, as developed in the 'late teiar,
which he argued was one of the most ludicrous
Cases ever brought before 'a Jury, both as respect.
ed the situation .0 We prisoners, °the. attack made,
or said to 4te niatle, on the Tower by a folmidable
army of one man, or the plan of takieg the Book
by the truly trememlnns blow of glass bottles—(loud
loughing, cavalry commanded by
tan Uenerals nu Cid milis-iyuci could hoi title, and
one of whom (amid scarce walk, while, by the
artifiee of
,Castlt-s, a wretch, at prouttutteing
whose
mune even ie oure herself trembled, lon as he
was to every feeling hot that oh blood and rapine-4,
the waggon was loaded with, 'Si ii ? Why,
of powder and '6 bullets-+oa I rethendous tdoreo ViCP
doubt.—(Fleur, and a;laugh.)—The Lord Mayor,
a Nle, her now ut that Houk, Was •not
and why ? Because lie knew the whole ea a whole.
(Haar. hear, hear!)—The Learned Cirtolemists
couelmled a most eltnpe nt and interesting speuelt
by deckling. that this measore Was bolt ly pre.
pared by Ministers•for the purpose of depriving
Englishmen of the Cohnitotion„
Mr. CANNING CO081(4.1.01 I hat the very import.,
ant qoestimi now under emiNideration 'depended.
entirely upon tlitee * poao r awly Wtis
theta driteg,er in the count, y 1 Was thA
Porch as to rewrite extraotei Inn y powers to he
put into the hands of the ,Ministets of the
Cro a ; and Was the pn eke apecihc mew ore
now moil. .ikrossiorG. tha't which w. liiill►ttttl
to ward off the evils which were imprn.l.ng 1 That
there Was daegei in the comary be thimit it few
indeed would be tomtit to ditty, and that it was
of aDO OPP which required veCII: tetne,tv nb
Man who bad completely considered the subject
could dispute. Even on the subject on which.
itiany Hononrable Geotlemen had been su tel
the ethe,iital
.of the, p-rsona alto had.
been tried for tr.ason, thotOet there was
:.ot a0,.c0 reason for coliet,itid..4r:on Indeed,
tt it' k‘ ere t,:;coer4tty con.idere. the col,er •side,
That tat.' fiat: .cCS ut Aft-:,,15. Hooper, Preston,
and Watson, were es nothing, and tiler every
thhte thud they mid been concerned hi wits' per-
fectly innocent.,--(Cries of ! from the Op.
then, he wits to understand that
there was really guilt In the transactions in w loch.
were enga
thnitalievt: eank4l ',.buyt :le Bu
i reivoe,ntb.tie:
ceietf e
t%llllll4)eosust,itri ct.. it,;is;
destroyed all etideure ut 1111111011,r proceedings,
what effect woold their acquittal have in the
country'? 'Where woold :here have been a greater
argllaletit for a Stispenah at luto tus!
quittai It ought, I
ee.l, to be rreoilectee (het
the advocates of some of tau*. very melt 'at
the Old ithile'±/ had foetid faint' witli'tlie•orgfi,.
genet of she Officers of the Crown its not iodiet•
tog them for high lyelvotl, Hot. fur
her
mirror offence for which they ,w re them) fried...—.
(Hear, !Isar !)."The Liou,--6441 Ltaruid -Gentic4