The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-17 00:00:00

satisfaction which had already been expressed by those whc
were best able to judge of its importance, he meant the in
struction of the people, proved that the bet rssults might h
• anticipated from the improved feelinga which the sister C::1111.
trY would bear towards England. The measure was the mon
satisfactory, that while they granted this boon to the Romer
Catholics, that, did not in any degree injure the Protestant Es-
tablishment.— ( Hear, bear.) The proposed measut e has
already effected much good with the Catholics of Ireland, fee
they spoke in high terms of the liberality of this country, whirl
conferred on them this boon, for an object the dearest to thee!
, hearts, he meant the education of their priests, a sum wind
that House did not hesitate frequently to bestow on objects foi
their own gratification merely. They had the strongest assu
ranees that the fo ebodings of certain flonourabl,
Members, with regard to the evils resulting from
this grant, would be doomed to disappointinent.—( Hear.
He believed that this grant would produce the effects vihiel
its supporters anticipated. He believed so, because though he
differed with his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen upon
Points of faith, he was convinced they were moved by feeling!
• whieh animated every Christian man, and were gratefu'
for the kindness of England. They were grateful, above
all,
fer three boons which were given in a disin-
terested spirit, because they were calculated to contribute
Maeerizlly to the comforts and education of those parties it.
*born they took the deepest interest. Thinking these west
the effects likely to follow the measure, he was not to be de•
terred from prosecuting it by any casual expression whirl
might have fallen in the course of the debate from Hon. Mem-
bers, however distinguished they might be for learning am
ability, and still less by any speech which had been trade it
that House at any antecedent period.
,Ile entertained he
}Ugliest respect for the Hon. Member for Dungarvan. Hit
talent and ability
differ from for discussing subjects of this nature war,
uniformly great, but nevertheless he was constrained t(
one part of a speech made by that
Honourable Gentleman upon th;s Bill. But perhaps h(
°tight not to fix upon a man whose poetic imagery
was at once an excuse for the indiscretion he fell into, when h(
stated that the Bill would not give satisfaction unless it led t(
some ulterior measure ; nor did he concur with Lord Mont-
"ale, who in an accidental moment said the grant ought to bi
moment.nuy and ought to be under the supervision of Par-
That expression was used sorre fourteen or fifteen
!ea!' ago. It was an expression, accidentally used
not meant for the guidance of Parliament at
el! time even when it was delivered. Surely
p„--`n• it ought not to controul Parliament its dis-
-"sing, fourteen years afterwards, a measure of such im
rflance as the one they were discussing. In the course of th.
, abate attempts had been made to enter upon points extremely
linPortant in themselve', but which had little to do with the
subject of discussion, and therefore they did not necessarily
!Pier into the consideration of this question. lie did not thin!
ept necessary now to discuss whether it be proper that the Stet,
1/..nOtilld extend favour to all reunions. He did not deem i•
necessary to ascertain whether they were bound now to take int(
ex°Osideration the general endowment of every sect that migh•
; iSt in the country, because that was a question which had n•
ee Terence to the one immediately under discussion. But at all
st„een!s, if that question was connected with the grant to May-
. d'eeto, the time to have censidered it was when the grant was
Was'
upon in the year 1795. All they hat to decide now
41 stesether, the principle having been adapted, they shoule
fakete such An augmentation to the grant as to make it Effective
lisit"'e objects which induced Parliament originally to estab-
h d been
Allusion had freely been made to the petitions wide?
had °Leen presented on this subject. lie admitted that they
diatee,,uneo extremely numerous, but the generality of them
age:n'ed l'er much from the speeches whieh had been made
eooLP theygrant. The petitioners pursued a very different
resist to the line of argument used by lion. Gentlemen who
teed the grant. Th petitions uniformly proceeded upon
Prineiple that the grant was established for maintaining
onset, ,
eot t Catholic establishment, and they called upon the House
/10:vote a reasonable grant, but to do away with it altogether.
the Ti the exception of two H
ity of Oxford and Dube('
e°n• Member who had spoke in the course of the debate
tote' against the augmentation of it, but they did not object
Rra4 smaller amount. But the petitioners looked upon the
thik as Preposterous ; and let Hon. Gentlenien, therefore,. no
thee that if they succeeded in rejecting the Bill, it would stop
roest no, they would have to proceed a step further. They
the inocitince to the Roman Catholic body of Ireland the
toneeilrae bed now come when, instead of their rea
musty . considering their wants and ,remands, Parliament
~joyet7ithrlraw from them the grant which. they halt
name fora period of fifty years. It. had been said that Par-
%the]. W`lS new for the first time going to establish a Romer
11e.-4 P ndowment ; bet for his
.part he differedthose
es th embers who held this opinion. What were the word
IVeve Preamble to the Act which first made this grant
fenrc'e'i„,tlley were these :—" Whereas, by the law now in
e,ath,47 lois kingdom, it is not lawful to endow any Romer
Pan, IC, seminary or college." Then came the enactment
nodoe7nieh said, " It shall be henceforth lawful to establish.
Were Lend maintain any such college." and the same words
n,eeessTtio a subsequent clause, which he did not think it wit.
114%47 to read. Yes, it was the distinct intention of Par
saete 0 give the grant for that particular purpose, and the
qo since prat had been repeated for the same purpose every
there'ea.
°P,II to the present period. But supposing wa!
tette ate
to endow the institution at that time, it was in
ci to do
hoe
use provided
future period, and the Bill then before
stour'e for the endowment of the institution. His
Nit able Friend in the next place objected to the
list because he said the Bill made it a permanent
ee.
1)11,1 1 of an annual provision, and thus they laid down the
telPle that the Roman Catholic religion should never ceas(
titir.aland. Now he very much doubted whether by any le-
%m y rye enactment they could cause either the cessation or the
le,4l,neeneent of the Roman Catholic religion in Ireland ; and
by did he think that its permanence could be prevented
SlllZ,°slding for the wants of the clergy in an indecent and
teinc:ntiog manner. A well educated person, in his
%stet. Was more likely to become a convert to Protestantism
he,
tr ears had received indifferent instruction. Ile could
!nit aieerefore, agree with the principle which wished to keep
the "nlarl Catholics in ignorance to induce them to adopt
biettlrer faith—if he might he allowed the term—which he
:nseseefsttrofessed. No, he did not think that course would
44114 air end. They would have a far better chance of
toe pietn,e hearts of ;he Roman Catholic people, and rendering
the„, riaoetrines of the Protestant Church more acceptable
°Y making every coecession, and giving their clergy
•Itnat 4good
7ft:ration. It had been stated in the course of the debate
ai:otile Yegave a better education to the Roman Catholics,
so not ettertain4uanger the Protestant religion, but he confessed he
any such fears, nor did he think either rea-
ile°llllOiperizelnrience justified the opinion. He would ask his
asertrnatie us who alluded to this subject, how it was that the
onign itself was first effected ? Was it when ignorance
hot.e se to; When literature, science, and art began to ad-
sei_OPe? His Noble Friend knew full well that it was
atteeese,tteduce and literature had begun to idurninate the
keteekieeees the Monks began extensively to cultivate the arts
/reit"' themselves
that the leaders of the Reformation pre
ll'ho I'4 earl", to the world. They were the
It had (list. obtained a previous literary character, and
htokneos ,„TPlshed :themselves in classical attainments.
e 0,17 In e,""' they acquired these attainments that the light
(etistitheith them, and then the illumined the whole
thee!geel:l; Catholicsßosts-anbiessiogs of. Protestantism.. He said then to
it °I truth in ignorance was only to stop the
theymeans hin Ireland, while by increasing
stlas Would tif religious instruction and education
tlee throw '
tee the •. , a blessine upon the land, and
!tot es,3l. civilization of inhabitants.—( Hear. )
,ietlz,eittl;3priests had repeatedly declared that they would
pe 'hewer "dowment from the State, and hi; Noble
Nie°Ple by :,,ergued, that if the • were to break faith with
Ns be whose contributions the were supported, they
beleeityo,st parttereolfielled to accept of a State allowance. But it
ristieesor to
mak the present measure to endow the Catholii
That theOf their eft them independent of the voluntary contri-
eue Ito 'Acres, "°eks• It was altogether erroneous to say
I.lri9t ° nf the
Ise_ wow, mho, grant would increase the number of
deeti'n be priests in Ireland. The effect of the
41144 dee 444) arely• to improve the education of those who
-t, ~ent prmsts—to supply the students with books
Nt ? t.heer
.enance, which they did not possess at pre-
:hot: rilseansY to render them better men, and, he hotesd.
St tth4 be j4nd to He did not believe that many in the House
1),It 9 titoeitegether concur in the proposition that the grant
haa4Poses4 the u done away with. The grant was confirmed
tft; hTert-igot, and
eni°e: For 14 years it was continued with-
sgsi .beef4feeatee by et Y oPportion which bad since been raised
tag
rs of the House of Comnions been found to vott
ose Jeet• • If t
1114 • thett e, , , hey col not do away with the grant,
b.. to ritaLli_l9 there be Coda measure weich proposed no
ththSnille. t'ontltt. effective for its purpose? Some objection,
1%,444', that the" time when the increase was proposed tofled.., T, ,;,}1 re could be no time more appropriate than
-`aitio e 4 'he en
sthie, ergy of the Government had con-
tth,'L thristore "ea the finances of the country, and left
Bor topic People he means of granting without danger a boon
liaise, a set 9I Ireland so much desired. There were
pas the ee•Zn'eh he would have desired to address the
to teetl so he
thaa.!e had not been &tread so much rolon ed
ttaltetY kettlb It fell to his lot to addyress the House eg..henf+qi.
ill:o.tbe:prseeWotere..a.bsen-t. He was sorry to be obliged
ens,'lstekseet slew, ot en), Memberwas compelled, Poe' it 11, ,to allude to the speech of a Right Hon
that although thep measure was' a good
144 ttiln ought 31/d
Kneels Presets,. nut to have been brought forward
n te„. Go_
Nett tee year eerteletent. But the late Ministers
'6114 141 gran! In Power and they had never ventured to
Veili,'Rattte' to the
NI -let hadthereto the
Catholic. Church in Ireland. They
e to stigmatise those who under greater
St9i,Setteoll oeposiete outage to propose it. The Right lion.
4/teglt ehl.the Gov had accused the Right Hon. Baronet at
lodistd,rnment of inconsistency. This charge
eilleetire `6't, if well founded, was not a valid charge
__pvernment. The Right Hon. Gentleman
4,1 Z, 941 stile used that his Right Hon. Friend (Sir R
titZe Jbvtrrjudie:o passions with which he did not sympa-
Islest44letV e th„ ea he
withheld in contempt. Let the
oer for nelo. ion the speech made by the
Velto 01 Sir"...?' burgh in 1840, when he expressed
9,110 nee ie.
ti,_ttobe.rt Peel's conduct in abstaining
obtesep.porutette Pa!stoirons and prejudices of the majority of
ZiVethjtetl,°ll to .He thought there could be
Itlltligi4:Ppnt•ne ex principle of the present measure, and
ions which had been raised would
ttltsoNii ei°4were Ill'i_t,e,de,tbecause the measure was proposed I!
iltr4ltittet d h374!iirnt
100 the. charge of inconsistency.—( hear. .Y)
opt o pro ring the House to pass the Bill, as one
"toe good order and religion in the sister
44°14 "lit
% ' she m CLAY said that be did not think that there
thensser, ter Member in the. House who could have
tit ,t ,h h_sh h reason, f
e The/7 Opposing the measure now before
ealryg-es sZnaselt feelingtuen eY
is... Zealot
1410%1: htoodf netoeilics to represent
existed
measure, and many of his friends to
inindehbitsedauppaprotrictiinpgatetdhaint tmhaetasfueerelinigie,
:44,1 rhe tl; thlheiQus trart
b,rett,Ae.isfeeil loss of their friendship. He could not but think
eesitee ted agreed with many Honourable Gentlemen who
47444 hded v
14419 two and
_stoat this measure had been greatly m'
11101,,!1
0... I portion epresented, and he believed that no eigt of that of the excitement out of doors may have
(e,tetise negtiings
s misapprehension.
earls s a
op r
ne snednotwle
theta Roman
att‘e`riteee talker the petitions ndmetthnotetth,oharangues at
fat t;"tir"elirehinir oaf, either
4n5,%1
ibeoled th_ a necessary precursor to such an e d w
she Ceti !Ay othe ccuracy ef that description. He (nlennied-
lolie Church er or greater degree an endowment to the
existingnaaltsi
oin,vgarlaapntrtplel:
tisa:ny nom h
evilly e awed than the
titie
ttai
hit
till aatti
toZza..-1 Tar
gfroarn educational
it was
vivid'" by an united Parliament, and emi-
t tt Y yearst ikl 0 grant, ,
arid now the se
curt.t anti
suostitute a exel t tn.
t nec
Church.
he distinctly
seseteeee, either was the
only • em of educatie,
44neent one
or tete 1 "i" "
could ever be described -
If it re
bad:Net:" an the RomanotC•aetrhoic!
et"
shill ecelesias '
rtfor •i h
a,sr after Z'e wouldfor in' ta lael.inp'llylratehnot:e heg grants not
seec.h twhheyy
"Ivies e euneationalur
stihn tar y
a any
jeffn:
arf
for
ot
she:evtt
that
rdonaa:::
ece
there
theie:rme
eiltr°t i't;‘,l4 ec'''',leoeieetileteteeleen the rational,P°ses ianndthßisrietti
It couldot be denied th and
Me
tied Jott.ealsittrtliehtyhatthintte.igrants might become at
noncan'
th4astataetee, (i;eriternest grants
only she stuin"-e"-
ite,''"e iselt he did 71.t,be Roman Catholict:lsChuwrl:ho
ire iq~o .gdsen 4„ofnominati wis
dad t~ tel4eleh°°__lsizfor the Yede:cp:triOr oei
'KW en of a Church which enjoined