The Sun.
London, England, 1844-05-04 00:00:00

-~~

'n'ustice of which he had been guilty was in I vance and improvement in machinery had lessened ! them in the markets of the world, when they would be obliged
1 j
not havitig expressed himself suifficiently strong. . human labour—had lessened it in time and in inten- to come home and tell the manufacturing labourers that they
FACTORIES BILL. sity. Now, he founil diet the peculiarities attachine , had no more markets, for which they might thank their own
HO USE OF LOR D S, Ma!" 3. On the motion that the Order of the Day for the ,to the factory men were two. One, that the interference.—( Hear, hear. ) He saw those who only looked
Th r e
e .oRD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool- ogoat‘evditihntomaaoshseinse;
rtyh.e ontlelecro,
utlhdatfinthdenyowootrhk:erd; to the last operation of the Chnanhc:llooxruoltfothethEatxcheoqnuelr.
saw old country gentlemen, d C so s e
seek at Five o'Cloek. wilre
House resolving itself into Committee on the Factories
Bill, be read, who lat par.—( Hear, hear. ) That was one of the most fatal symp-
RECAL OF LORD ELLENBOROUGH. :' ii i. ecr eo
nej°unngcrtei
toms he had evor seen of the state of the country.—(Cheers.)
..i.T.be Di..tke of WELLINGTON took that oppertimity Mr. S. CRAWFORD rose to call the attention of the
,1 andd itfhethemgosetneiortaelrersutleatevtaeretheaccurreaattee,stthkantowthleedy
House to the Belfest petition, but he was interrupted by iha . e to
' g g What did it show ? It showed this, that so small was the re-
ef giro
~ a • rmine the Noble Marquis opposite (Normanby), The SPEAKER, who said that the Hon. Member was ! judge of their own affairs, ought to make a contract turn on capital, that it was an advantage to buy in the Three
Tat his Nolle Friend. the President of the Board of mleeolt.so rdh
avoipop osei tne-, per Cents.—( Hear, hear. ) Go to America and ask for 3
U ntrol, would be in his place en Tuesday next. out of order, inasmuch, as the question had not yet
hfio)rw tihtemcsaemlvees,thhaet atshkoesde ttli:,o
been put. Neoleb , g per cent. on capital there.—(Loud laughter) So sensitive
. °The
.Marquis of NORMANBY seid he would, under Mr. ROEBUCK rose amidst loud cries of " Order," • tered into the composition of this complicated were they of the loss of their capital, that even with all the
La Se case, should render it a ground for him to in- facts before them, which showed that in America the retarns
h..; circumstances, pestpone the questioe of whieh he but at length trove way.
lin given notice reepoeting the communications which The question that the Order of the Day be read was ' terfere in their case, when he did not interfere were great—(Contiz,ued laughter )—they were overwhelmed
esl!.o passed between the Government and the Court of then put, and aareed to. in the case of the agricultural labourer? There was one with the recollection that they had cheated them out of eel.-
"erectors regarding the recal of Lord Ellenborough tain syms of money. 7( Hear, hear.) But that was not the
of question. The question was, whether in this country the re-
fr°l2l Indi'a Sir J. GRAHAM moved that the Speaker do leave tdhoi‘nygo htheervie•anwtiet.dh
otoxacglegaerrautpe.d
dletsowripoutilodosnooft dmoistoercyo,me
the chair. turn upon capital was not exceedingly small. He said that was
The LORD CHANCELLOR presented several peti- '
teen • Lord ASHLEY presented several Petitions in favour deformity,. of want, and of suffering. He (Mr. Roe-
buck) denied them all.--(" Hear, hear," and " Oh.") evident from the state of the Consols—from the fact that they
s in favour of the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. of the ten betties' dense. were willing to lend their money to such bad payers as the
Ole Bishop of LONDON' presented a petition from Americans, which showed that there was no adventure so ex-
Mr ALDA el presentee a petition from persons em- " Oh," said
Idle Honourable Member for Pomfret
Zelfast against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. travagant—no danger of loss so great—that they were not
ready to undergo, in the hope of enlarging their profits.—
, Lord BEAUMONT presented a petitien from two ployed in the woollen mills at Leeds, against the half- (Mr. M. Mines). He (Mr. Roebuck) wanted
time clau-e. to know if that Hon. Gentleman had ever investigated
"lan Catholic congregations in Lancashire, in favour Mr. ROEBUCK then rose for the purpose of moving— the case. It wes very easy to make propositions with ( Hear, hear.) The consequence was that which he had just
of the Bill. 66 That it is the opinion of this House that nointerferenee jingling sounds and jingling syllables, but he (Mr. R.) stated, that the profits of stock employed in manufactures at
tiolbe Marquis of NORMANBY presented several peti - the resent moment were reatl dimin;sbed and the
with the power of aelult labourers in factories, to wanted kn.owledge before
.he legislated.—(Hear, hear.) p . g . y . . , ,
That being the condition of the people for means for carryine on commercial enterprise was lessened.
els from various places in Ireland against the Bill. He make contracts respecting the hours for which they
t.las also for preseetation several p-tiii,ms on the suliject It was at that point that if they reduced it lower the conse••
shalt he employe•l, be sanctiened by :his Houee." whom they were about to legislate, he would not ld fi h • ' '
quenee wou etat he would have no more means to engage
el the Presbyterian marriages, which he should d fer,
as ot He beli• ved that he was perfectly in order in moving trouble the House with a mass of evidence. Indeed, he
de the labourer with. Each succeeding year would bring a suc-
cession of losses and instead of being a manufacturer who
her Noble Lords had more important petition, to this reeolution before the House went into Committee ought to aPologiee to the House for having already a
Present. on the Bill. It had been objected to him that he might dressed them at such length upon the matter.—(Hear.) would go on employing labouring persons every year,' he would
.
th Th....e. Bishop of LONDON presented a petition agninst have moved the resolution in Committee, but, in his He stated it broadly, and he called upon the Noble have a less number of labourers in his establishment, because
I, leiseenters' Chapels Bill. they had foreed him into a condition in which he could not re-
opinien, great advantage would be derived from Lord to deny it, that the Factory Commissioners of 1833
th!eord CA VIPBELL presented petitions for and against moving it as a reselution of the House. et appeared declared that the condition of the factory-labouring produce. If prices were low, would they cut down the
-
s' Ussenters' Chapels Bill from Thetford, and trom
Piacelii.s_ in_lreland. to him (Mr. leoebuck) that the Right Honourable pepulation of this country was superior to any other means of him who was least able to protect himself, and whom
Gentleman oleleosite was alternating between various labouring population.—(Hear, hear.) He knew they they could not protect by a Ten
.Hou.rs' Pill,. name.ly, th.e
' thet at one time the doctrines of non
I. ee Marquis of BUTE presented similar petitions. practices— . -inter- could pick out individual cases here and there of suffer- manuracturieg lahourer, wko came in side by sele with his
ae,,,4111 COTTENHAM also presented petitions on the as it from •
ference with labour prevailed with him, and at another ing, and far w him to speak of them in
-eme subject, st de ree with
time the opposite doctrine. He was anxious to learn the slighte g anything like levi y. starving competitor, who would take less for Ins ten hours
1 b d h h d ' • eh th 'd th t
Lo •t- a our, an womt ey were now eceiving wi ei ea a
ee I'd BINNAIRD presented a petition from the from the Rieht Hon. Gentleman the principles upon He felt for the misery of the labourer in the factory, and for ten hours' labour he would get twelve hours' wages ?
e (Hear, hear. ) Let them not deceive themselves On him
Znure_, gation of a free church, the locality of which we which his conduct was governed. He, therefore, should for the misery of the agricultural labourer, and he woula
would fall heavily the weight of the Noble Lord's humanity.
,et not catch, against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. first apply himself to the general principle which by tmd bye argue that question with the Noble
Lord BR
/Joie. . OUGHAM presented a petition from twelve ought to prevail in order to deprive the Right Lord and those who supported him.—(Hear•e as
, On him would fall the consequences of it. For he would be
he was now, numerone in his kind—every day'e
stae‘flnall Ministers, of the highest character and long Honourable Gentleman of the power of apply- What he said, however, was this. It was very easy want pressing him to demand labour, and the capitalist would
eloil. g in their vocation, in favour of the Bill.
leo d CT. ing his own principles in any way that he liked. to bring forward individual instances of deformity, but say to him then, as he said to him now, your labour is worth
petitiell a ai
--ONCURRY presented (as we understood) a He meant to throw upon the Right Honourable they must make out that it was the consequence of the so much,. and no more, that. you must take, or you will
Earl •,,,g nst the Irish Registration Bill.
t'lT7,exr d • d h d I dle
si eration, an aa t resse =self now to the Right Hon. 1
Gentleman the onus of showing why he took from the system, and besides making out that it was the conse- ta.ke nothing. It vies a most important and most awful con.. ,
trnit • - - ILLIAM presented a petition from a
erten co o y - gblished
working classes the power of contracting fi tr themselves; quence of the syetem, the must know that by le islative
Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department,
Charre neregation, in favour of the Dissenters' and tl•en he should address himself to the Noble Lord enactments they could relieve it. Unless they este
Is soill„ d h kd le •11 h rldl d•h th st. eW• h
an eas e im w y eme e wit e ques ion . it
T e E every respect for the Right Hon. Gentlemen, he asked him
Noble F arl of DALHOUSIE would suggest to his opposite, and throw upon him the onus of proving the these two propositions they did nothing. Now, had not
advantage he proposed to confer on the working the Factory Commissioners, in 1833, declared distinctly
why he unfortunately meddled with this affair ? Every man
0, riend (the Duke of Richmond) the expediency classes by legislation. He should grapple vvith two anta- and clearly that the labourers of the manufacturing po- would agree with him, when he said that it must be clear to
the Right Hon. Gentleman's sagacious mind that the eonse-
. postponing to a future day his proposed motion for
returns we e gonists who were opposed to each other ; but he wished iodation were better off in every particular than any
,„, itu respect to the importation of foreign wool. first so to place them, as that thee should not be able other class of the labouring population of this country? quences which he (Mr. R.) was depicting were the necessary
_ -the Duke of RICHMOND assented, and the motion
was fixed for Tuesday. todraw from an armoury whichdid not legitimatelybelong They were better off in every particular. As he had evils that would fellow from that interference. He asked him
On e to them. But, before all, he wished to relieve himself from already said, they were better paid, better lodged, and what good he could obtain in this raee of mock humanity—
trio ,tee motion of the Marquis of BUTE, the North
"sn Railway Bill was read a second time. the odium which was cast upon him, and others who better fed. And now he came to that which he knew in this painful struggle for eminence in ignoranee ?—( Cheers
thought with him. He meant the charge of inhumanity would be treated as the ad captandum argument on that and laughter.) Weat
,goodritharen
hcould
.be
aderiv_e:l iiom so
reposterous a.position .—( e , ear.) H 01 .R ) bed
DISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL. . --(Hear, hear)—of disreeard for the people—of un- occasion. The Noble Lord said. " What ! have you P
thllle LORD CHANCELLOR then rose to move that carefully abstained from any remark upon the 1 bo
a ur of chil-
e H natural selfishness—nay. of cold-bloodedness, which had so little regard for a woman, as to wish that she
dren. 'That depended upon a totally distinct set of circum-
eau °use should resolve itself into Committee on this been charged upon them. For himself he could say he should be taken
.from those. labours which are her pecu-
1. ts stances. They were not capable of judging for themselves;
had , Lee expressed his surprise at the opposition which had a sincere sympathy for the working classes, and so liar sphere, which make her the solace of our lives, they were subject to the power of others. But the full-grown
e._ Been shown towards the Bill. The petitions, how- sincere was it that it could only be satisfied by seeing which make her the instrument of oar early education, man and woman, who had arrived at that age at which
Zeit) against the Bill were generally in the same hand- them vested with the power of governing themselves. and in fact prove her and form her to be the friend the law decided they could judge for themselves—why
tooting, and he had no doubt emanated from the same The professing friends of the working classes would not of man ? Are you willing to destroy her vital should the Right Hon. Gentleman interfere in !heir concerns?
agree in this. He (Mr. Roebuck) said to those P
Rilireee, and therefore he did not feel much fear fer the ower, to make her a machine, to unfit her to rear and They were the best judges of their own private interests.
Re wue i_had introduced Oa account of these petitions- professing friends give them the power to speak make her race ? In fact, are you willing to de- He had made these remarks without any feeling of hostility to
for thernselvee—give them the power to legislate g ht Hon. Gentleman ; but he did entreat of him, before
the -a' nappy to say that to the first section of the Bill
re w .he. advanced a.gai.n into this abyss of legislation, to settle with
rade the human race by making their mothers the Rig . . . .
le . as no dissent. The object of that section was to for themselves in this House. When they gave to the miserable beings ?" That was the kind ot argu-
himself the principles upon which he undertook a measure of
thrallse certain places of worship. and he would ask workine classes that power—when he found those who ment which was used. Now, he would ask, first, was
h d ' • t t halt betw t • • d •
t at escrmtion—no o een wo opinions, an , with-
fuLlr Loo_rdships what could be more just than Cl's? The professe'd themselves so exceedingly anxious for the the labouring woman in the factory worse off than she
out having thrown overboard altogether the doctrine of inter-
„ail:B,
.f religion which was upheld in those places of rights of the people voting for their proper representa- would be if she were not in the factory? Judging of ference, to make a mighty fuss about the extent to which it
'hotline? had
been legalised, and why, he would ask, don in that House then he would believe that they had her situation as an agricultural labourer, he would was carried.--( Hear, hear. )
Tide not the places themeelves be legalised also? some real sympathy for their sufferings. Now to say that her situation was far better. He The question having been put by the SPEAKER, several
he : was the object of the section of the Bill to which his propositions. He (Mr. Roebuck) took it as a had this peculiar evidence in his favour, seconds elapsed without any Hon. Member rising, and there
ei,,tetd referred. Why should they not allow the prin.
&enters' g teneral rule that the labouring man had the that all the medical men who had investigated the sub- being loud cries of " Divide,"
• vle of lon greatest interest in forming a contract for himself. icct in 1833, declared that the labouring woman was far Sir J. GRAHAAI said he was unwilling that the House
th a n ssbhoe
moe :el doa
hddds iervreivsdaseet
dloontnos t
tihnhaet
mr e ufbeeyrs
e?
tinhoenee unt
onot
ni
tl.h boa en
ds hp
Loa
ode
ca.
hr
nr ewevdh' "
Ge
hel
.1t
aloedf fme j ranensd.t
possession to extend to the ease of Dis-
of
_, chapels as much as to other property? Many The next proposition was, that the working man had better able to cope with the labour in the factory . . q P loos Y
e_ ltillese chapels, in many parts of the country, had the best knowledge of his own circumstances, and that the man. He could understand why. It was
He must say that he had rather anticipated that some advocate
.7, held for a long period of time, and why, he would no general rule could be framed so well calculated to in-door work—it was warm (so far it was coin-
of the Ten Hours' Bill would rise to reply to that
~71e( Were the parties holding these chapels still to be affect his interest as his own strongly inclined views, fortable), and all that was. required of her was con-
ve'ec:d under the risk of having their title impeached in - speech. —( Hear, hear. ) Many of the principles for
ee.. ?tin of law? Their title to these chapels could his wants, and necessities. The general rule, therefore, tinuous attention. It wFs th? peculiar characteristic of
which the Hon. and Learned Genii • S' J
eman contended he ( tr .
Graham) had on a former occasion urged upon the House, in
''‘," ;ranee, must be taken to be, that they could not interfere with woman, that she could glve this continuous attention, and
not suffer in her health ; while man, when bound to
the r e,. hed, although the law now recognised private interests on this subj. ct—that the parties them-
This lenglon which was upheld in them.—(Hear.) selves were the best calculated to make their own give continuous attentiea t° inedoor labour, which , opposition to the Noble Lord the member ter Dorsetshire.
did not task his intePect, usua.lly d. id suffer in health. With respect to his argument as to the reduction of the
Was eaew did not apply to cases where the foundation contracts. Those who differed from this principle
Every medical person who ha.d examined into the state of the hours of manufacturing labnur, it was for the advocates of that
cilia
__u dared to be for the express inculcation of parti- and who advocated interference, must show the grounds
*mem. te labourers in the factory districts had.declared without one ex- reduction to reply to it.—(Cheers.) He was extremely un-
'lets, but the provision of the Bill was to put an for that interference ; the onus lay upon them to do so. .
ception that the women in the
.factories bore the factory labour willing to refer te the somewhat exaggerated expressions
ezi ex • • HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 3.
the best—that it was better suited to their habits, and to their which, in the heat of debate, had fallen from the Hon. and
L. 41..,
yeepenswe and ruinous litigation. : In the case of Now, what right had they to interfere with them? First,
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'Clock.
etta,,,,....-. wley's charity, the matter was brought into , • he held that the parties having strong interest and pecto
The Pontop and South Shiel Is Railway Bill was read physical and psychological conditions than any other species of Learned Gentleman. He was sorry to say that, without the
labour, that it was anything
hbut ha:rd labour, and that they •ise of language of that description, too much exasperation
eat:" terY. and,. after going through- various steges, it a third time and passed ; as was also the Newcastle and liar knowledge, it was incumbent for the party inter •
(*fore h
leordshi , -Im, and next was brought into their tering to show that they had greater knowledge ; that were in a far better state. for t. e maintenance and propagation unhappily prevailed on that subjeet—( Hear, hear)—and there-
Darlington Junction Railway Bill.
stilt ps House, where it was argued. and the re- Sir HOWARD DOUGLAS moved that the Liver- he agricultural labourers H ted
they had greater interest, or that they bad a greater of their species than t _ . e wan fore, in the few obeervations which he was about to make, he
o. Was that members of the Established Church power of judging. But the Noble Lord said there eas a pe- that part of the argument answered by the Noble Lord.— should abstain from usine laneuaee of an irritating nature.
-ere d l pool Docks Bill be re•tommitted and that Lord Gran- " le h ) Th nas to the men Were th et. - -• '' e
the ee ared not entitled to partake of the benefits of - ' culler class oe men in this country called " factory men. ( ear, ear• e . • e men worse oln the first place, he agreed with the Hon. and Learned
• tieeinlierity; and then the question rose as to what par- vale Somerset be added to the Committee, for the pur- that a just, wise, and enlightened view a the best
ar sect wa pose of adding a new clause to the Bill. better paid, better fed bett
that there were peculiar things connected with their con- in any w_ ay th_ an the labourers in any other business ? He had Gentleman
shown that they were
___ , er clothed interests of the working classes ought to form the basis of 'heir
quence 0, s meant by her Ladyship. The conse- The metion, after a short conversation, was agreed to. than the agricultural labourer. Now he asked if there wes decision. It was not for him to look at the motives of Hon. Gen-
rarities were overwork and under-
dition that. called for the interference of the Legislature,
and that those pecu i
init„
__ w 1 all this was that the " charity " had to The Leeds and Selby Railway Purchase (No. 2) Bill anything peculiar in their condition with respect to the relation tlemen in that House. But, speaking generally, he believed that
4J7. ,t•ds of 30,000/. by way of law costs, instead . ,
pi nntwe refre roesnecr. eh
ins erac east: aurfay
e. t a
rlita
ge al da
hboeuerne rss a, i iwl
ht
iheaht
ht he eh
orndans toetrohv a::
me noxsito uosotnod do
or ci
vi
ed e
was r. ad a third time and paesed. hich he had fltine• upon the .
which they bore to their masters, which rendered legislative though there was great difference of opinion, they were all
ttoh ittemactot
Re'e Plying that stun to the histructions of the founder Col. WOOD presente I a petitien fr •rn a place in Bre- great mass of evidence ty
.. e .
pay. Now, upon that the Nimble Lord had collected a
me rfoitnt
othnadt mw
eainf
onre
erlntitenme...wi,it.iat there were at least two huedred suits in table of the House, stating that that evi 'ence showeo
ton, signed by 3,000 persons, praying for a reveal of the . • wwoaurlkdiabge
PI tom for h
seYer 1 • t-e purpose of ouetinte the truso es of
•
duty on lime u-ed for inanui e. great nninora iy a g
It • nd reat misery. Such were the h• •ltr 1 1 bourers —(H ) T h ' • - • ' -
is agricu n a a . ear. hat e denied.— classes. Far be it from him (Sir J. Graham) to depreciate
a of t Noble Lord's premises, but the next step that the Noble (Hear.) The same incidents regulated the rate of wages of the immense value of the machinery that was now employed
er wofhiethhe
shies _ hose charities, and he thought their Lord- Mr S. CRAWFORD presented a petition from Roch-
Lord took was a most remarkable one—he stated that great 1 d • ft ' th t 1 d h • • " G 1
persons emp oye in ac ones a regu ate tem in every in this country.. He fully agreed with the Hon. ent eman
tie, Ws:add agree with him, that he was perfectly jus- dale in favour of a Ten Hours' Factory Bill.
a. 74 In calli e misery existed from overwork and underpay, and he other case ; and they acted with more certainty and more ra- (Mr. Roebuck) in what he had said of its value and import-
‘`'Ll'ers, ne for the interference of that House.— Lerd INGESTRE preeen• ed a petition from Bolton,
) The te
goon; a d o ject of the Bill was to prevent litt
•
in the county of Durham, against the union of the sees . person ta I not suppoi im in apii y w enever amu I
stated that the - h t deft ••t If •th t eft h letude of persons were congregatee to- ince—he fully agreed in the eulogy he had passed upon the
the cord !I
he felt confident that he w ould meet with of Bangor and St. Asaph. t. • n enemy to the werking classes, to gether as they were in the manufacturing districts than where manufact
proposi ion was. a uring capitalists of this country. He believed they
they were congregated end separatedas they were in the agri- had found employment for a large mass of people, that with-
. The .. -!il support of their Lordships. ' Mr. W. PATTEN presented a similar petition from humanity and to all the best feelines of the human
cultural districts. In the latter case each man was forced to out their enterprise and talent would have been left in the
Isisho
pee, , . pof LONDON said he could not but ex- the Ilundred of Amounderness. ,•z1 h -1-1 I h le° b ded h
heart, an tat as suc le oug tto e ran as t e binations in most de lorable condition And he had not one word to sa
, act for himself. There were never any com. h p . G y
es llis disse t f h• ' It• I N 'b t • th Nbl L d
enemy of is int . on , e A een e o e or s
n rom the principles of this Bill, as
tell a, h Mr. PARKER presented a petition from Sheffield, . the country—there were always combinations in t e menu- against the prineple laid down by the Hon. and Learned en-
e'loble t e reason in support of it, adduced by his • premises an is cone usions, t ere was in is ir. oe-
dh. 1- - h •h•(V R facturing districts.--(Hear. hear.) This showed that the tleman, that the minimum of interference was the greate-t
and Le -
arned Friend, for he thought if it were f C • t f I • • t the principle of
praying or a omunt ee o nquiry in 0 buck's) opinion no connection whatever. Having este-
eiesirable atmospheric railways. agricultural labourer was in a worse condition than of good upon this question. But he must be permitted to
able that° put an end to litigation, it was equally desir- Sir E. COLEBROOK b ht p the report on the
roug u blished that an evil existed, he ought to have gone on the labeurer in the factory. The agricultural labourers state to the House that the argument now brought for-
t the rights of those va ious h - -h
r c acmes s ould be to show that the proposition which he had brought dare not combine.—( Hear.) That man who should hold up ward at this advanced stre of the Bill was an argument much
&t'otected - Leeds and Bradford Railway Bill.
hi_ as well as the interests of true religion advanced. forward was a remedy for that evil.—(Hear, hear.) his hand for a combination would. be crushed. They all knew better suited to a motion fur a repeal of the existing law than
Mr. SOTHERON presented a petition from Ton-
ch._' was not a question between Dissenters and the However anxious he might be to ameliorate the distress, that combinations existed in the manufacturii.% districts? accl for advancing the particular object which they had proposed to
ureh is brid d f T b *el - li • • 1 S h-
ge an one rom on n ge w• ~, against tle uut
ies„ , uut it was a question of truth, equity, and he might be a bad, he might be an ignorant physi so far the manufacturing labourer stood less in need of egise discuss that night —( Hear, hear. ) The principle now
Ea t d LI • ' R 1. all
s ern an aetings ai way 1 .
ecte'lee He was not then advocating the ri hts of the lathe assistance than the agricultural labourers. They re- enunciated by the Hon and Learned Gentleman was identical
cian, and what he proposed, instead of relieving
eeellreh h 1 ele ot dgt
• h Colonel WOOD presented a petition from the coal- quired no assistance. So much for the condition of the with that which was before the House in 1833, and which was
Its , nor was e, pr?per ysy a me, a v vetting t e factors of London, against any additional tax on coal ; might increase the misery he described,
.„ "L of any body of Dissentere, but he was advocating and 1 bourer in the manufacturing districts, which was infinitely then settled by the wisdom of the Legislature. All the areu-
one to the same effect from Ula -.d d f so far from ameliorating a single misfortune, a . h
xitge ; an one rom supenor to t e condition of the labourer in the agricultural ments which had been urged to-night, were; urged upon that
1 at he conceived to be the rights of truth. The Wes- the Enfield Coal Club. might bring a curse upon those for whom
elans ha h d had aereed with great districts. He now came to the proposition of the Noble Lord. occasion, though certainly not with greater ability. The win-
%law .it ad a meeting an , . ~ . Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from the he legislated. This, he thought, described the position Lit it be for one moment allowed that the Noble Lord had ciple had then been most carefully weighed, both by the Go-
Bill. unity as to their reasons against the passing ot Ms inhabitants of Wahharnechase, in Hampshire, aeainst of the Noble Lord. He had been misled by his sym• made out his case—that he had established that the factory vernment, guided by Air. Poulett Thomson (no ordinary autho-
/rig: The
, general body of Dissentere had had a meet- the Commons Inctosure Bill. pathies, and he came to that House to show that great labourers were worse fed, worse paid, worse clothed, and more rity in such matters), and by the Legislature, and after mush
attid Z: which a similar conclusion was come to. As he Mr. AINSWORTH presented ten petitions from the misery existed in a particular class of labourers. Now miserable than any other labourers in the kingdom—let them deliberation it had be.en placed as it now stood. . But what
efore •
and the toe this was not a question between the Church persons employed in ten factories in Bolton, in favour of Noble Lord's statement into a distinct ro osition, the had now to consider was, the nature of the Bill then be-
it was very easy for the ranting demagogue to go, throw the P P . Y . . l . _ „... e _
..
orthod lasenters but between the Church and the a Ten Hours' Bill. a sort of wandering instrument, round the country, and see what could be drawn from it. In the first place, tney fore the House, and the princm eat issue. ne (ow J. ura
°z Dis ' of the labour of children
worked ;in the second, they were under-paid. Now ham) said that it was the regulation . . . ,
Pr°Perty %,_ sentere, against those who had misused Mr. KEMBLE brought up the nport on the London for the dissemination of Ignorance and ill-feeling ; that were Over-
'me the whole panacea for this overwork and' underpay was con- and of unetnancipated young persons, in connexion with fac-
present B* h had been left for religious purposes. The Gas Bill, whechosas.ordered to lie on the table. was• a very easy thing to do ;it was assumed by the .
, ill w • fining the hours of labour to ten hours a day. Let them tories, and an abstinence from interference with the labour of
settte the as evidently brought forward in order to most vulgar and the most ignora,nt of mankind • that was
The Thetford Inclosure and Drainage-Bill was read a . ,
suppose the hours of labour to b ' thus limited and tlaen adults.—(Hear, hear.) That was the principle. He thought
allits.
No_, questions which had been raised in certain third time and passed. an object easy of attainment, but what the House required 1 e '
ee what wou d be the condition of the labourers. upon a question of this description it was not the best way of
tilted w?lie,h, within the last ten years, had been insti- Mr. HUME presented a petition from the inhabitants was something beyond that ignorance—something beyond Te •• •
he limiting of the hours of work to ten hours per day would get arguing the question brought forward by the Hon. and
that blust • k d
eritngfwea. pess, something beyond that cower rid of the question of over-work ;he wood then go to that of Learned Gentleman.—( Hear, hear.) He did think it would
ellaPels tt"
respect to certain charitable institutions and of Devizes, in which they complained that the duty on
followin
the , ' He apprehended that, if this were the case,
Pinio toeacco was 900 per cent. on the value, and prayed
be maingtarneci:. 1
lhaalOtllS which in that House dared not under-pay. The labourer came forward, and brought his have been more convenient to have taken the discussion of the
judge 'is which were expressed in those cases by the that it might be reduced ; also a petition from Montrose was easy • but what that House labour into the market, offering it at the best price he could question mooted by the Honourable and Le.arned Gen-
e, and b e uired was that the - '
r q y should not only prove the get fur it from the manufacturer. That brought him (Mr. tleman on the discussion of the proposition of the
sack to y the Noble and Learned Lord on the Wool- aerainst the Commons Inclosure Bill.
Ili_ , eimself, would go directly against this Bill. (The ''' RECAL OF LORD ELLENBOROUGH. existence of evils, but show also the efficiency Roebuck) to the main question, which was that of the menu- Noble Lord the Alember for Dorsetshire.—( Cheers. )
6,M Rev p he of their remedy ; that they should not accuse facturing capitalists. And here he must observes that he had He would, therefore, confine himself to the consideration of two
"‘"lgellents*i relate then read extracts from the various Mr. HUME gave notice that on Tuesday next
that House, by its legislation, of being the cause of seen in that House a curious feeling of antipathY to the whole questions, the first of which was why, having admitted the
why thn
._ o these cases.) He could not under,tand should move for a copy of all the correspondence be-
those evils which arose out of' the eircumstances of our race of manufacturing capitalists. If they would hut look principle of non-interference with' adult labour, they interfered
Dis "sage for the last twenty years, with respect to tween the East India Company and the Government abroad, and ask who lifted them from the abyss of destructi ent of labour which was not adult? He would
aenter ' condition as human beings ; that they should not throw, on with the employm
dewee e s chapels, was to be held as conclusive evi- relative to the recal of Lord Ellenborough from the
on an 1 • th• country, the odium aris
yCUs In is ing from wbich was yawning for them—who grappled with, and over- call to the recollection of the House what had occurred in 1833.
. t,di7e:t the intentions of the founders of those religious same Napoleon Buonaparte—his (Mr. Roebuck's) answer He had a perfect recollection that it had, at that period, been
tle fift Governor-Generalship of India. that which was the mere necessity of our nature. Ile uld be, th
Per Y Years ago. He apprehended that the pro- MARIN E INSURANCES. h t that class of mind, which thus sought wo e manufacturing caxitalists of the country. It admitted, en all hands, that the practical effect of limiting the
eteirse o • • had said t a was the manufacturing k r hours of labour of children and oun ersons to twelve hours
ta/tlng th f judging of those intentions would be by Mr. HUME moved for a return of the aggregate
to obtain notoriety, was among the lowest and which had made Engl - "wie
ge' ingenuity' and
powel-, ould be to limit the oil' yf g Ph• to h •'d
te the e nsa.e or the first twenty years with respect amount of the stamp receipts upen marine insurances
I ar which could deprave humanity ; and ling it might be to th and what she was now, and
.hoisteevtemr ga_ t w_ w l ing o mac Inery tat peno .
toll He believed th
if thisse ehaPers.—(tlear, hear.) He would like to know e most vu g . . e agriculturists, however painf li_ e at, general y, such had been, practically, the
Bil e,r the ten •- d 18 3 "th th te in each
years en mg 4, wi era s which, though in a time o e
f xciternent might meet be to hear ab t h '
ou t e ignorance of country gentlemen—(Laugh- effect of the measure altogether ; no doubt there had been ex-
Beeialis I passed what protection there would be against year, and the atuount under each tette ; also, for a return .
transient favour from that House would, he ter)—howeyer disagreeable it might be
till i- ts claiming one of tho chapels to which the of the amount of the stain d •• d bill of wi
p uty receive on s th some to him to be bearded ceptions. A Bill on this subject had been introduced by the
ntende hoped, when the House came to its right senses, be, as it in his f.rtune and in his country by the once poor manufac- late Government, in 1841. That Bill had been brought in by
lein ~. dto apply. He, therefore, moved that the lading during the same )ears.—Ordered. oueht to be, declared a calumny and a falsehood. The tnrer, who had applied hi •
s mind to his tusi
'nese and had the Ri ht Honourable Gentl
g eman the Member for Perth,
-1-
_recommitted that day six months. THE NAVY. as to show that the ac • d .ir '1
d
quire Int ions by his energy, whilst the an owner whom he saw in his place, and by Air. Sheil, the Vice-
eeiret eit first step the Noble Lord had taken w. . had been drea '
Be te ROUGHAM gave thie Bill his entire support. Sir C. NAPIER gave notice that on Thursday, the h h
sition—t at e was . . ming away his life—however painful President of the Board of Trade ; by that Bill it
u u ht
taken°, g the Right Reverend Prelate had quite mis- 16th of May, he should bring the state of the navy list factory la .
beurer was in a peculiar po .
d• • • •h d li'm from all others— it might be to hear all these things, it was not the less true, was proposed to extend the limitation of young persons
hr, , the object of his Noble and Learned Friend in in a situation which istinguis e i that to the manufacturing, capitalist, and to him alone, was ow- from 18 years of age to 21 years of age, so that if that Bill had '
aim r_ under the consideration of the House. that in the peculiar incidents of •
mg the greatness and th ountry.—( Hear a
• vide et.! iorward this measure, for this Bitt did not pro- Mr. C. WOOD presented a petition from Halifax that there was
Wch enabled a Legislative body hear.) It was the k e grandeur of thifs
the , p ssed, no person between the ages of 13 and 21, of either sex,
Jest tV.at'the doctrine of the elders of the chapels for the against the ten hours' clause; also a petition against the his history. w 1
N he wanted to know nity that had r • t reat 0
nowledge and power o a g e.mmu- would have been allowed to work in factories for a longer
aised England above all other communities.— period than twelve hours, and there could be no doubt but that,
salt
eri . y years should be held to be the doctrine of the County Courts Bill. to interfere in his behalf. ow: t y
nstics of the factory la- (Hear, hear ) w
glnal fou what were the peculiar characte - e should have been mere Nimrods—a petty • h
in t e majority of instances, the practical working of the exist-
the de _ . nder of the chapel. The object of taking Mr. ELLICE, jun., wished to know from her Majesty's Ibo rer was island in the ocean inst. ld—had not •
ead of governing the wor mg law had been to limit the working of machinery in the ma-
"et 'ne •
ye__ .rl which had been preached in the last thirty Government when the report of the '''cotch Poor-law bourer. First, he found that the factory a u .
1 t b f li * -
the least of it, as any other ta- i een or t e manufacturing, capitalists. Our fleets were on nufaeturing districts to twelve hours a day. There were, how-
ia.:•rat.lri these chapels, was to prevent litigation, and to Commissioners would be laid before the House ? quite as well fed, to say very sea—our fla was '
•ty and he should be enabled to e . g floating
upon
every hreexr—aut this ever, exceptions, and he believed it had been found possible, in
. ai",e he funds of the original founder of the chapel. He Sir J. GRAHAM said he should not be prepared to bourer in the commurn ,
r was better fed than any was not owing to the lazy landlords,, but to the active, energe- some few instances of competing manteactures by the employ-
,. -pee :rot think that the judgments to which the Right answer the question before the early part of 'text week. show that the factory laboure
_actor
y labourer was not tic, enterprising, manufacturing capitaasts.--( Hear, hear 1
, ment of female adult labour, to work the machinery for a longer
. -"eyivd _ end Prelate had alluded ought to be referred to as Mr. FRENCH wiehei to ask the Right Hon. Baronet, other. He then found that t f
Otlter classes of the cotnmu- titetnlrdndezelitand pointed at us, and asked how it was that time. This was certainly contrary to the intention of the Le-
do._ e_ tlFe against this Bill, because the judges did not lay the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whe- subjected to worse toil thatei
Ho se to remark that it was theginti' htW was but a speck on the globe of thister ,ors gislature, and was giving these manufacturers an unfair
teown in their judgments what the law ought to be, but ther it was the inteetion of her Majesty s Government nity, arid he would beg th u._ ,
f vidence on gyd power that held the balance arnehp. ll ter advantage over their competitors—an advantage which
" y stated • • - t enough to ret an undigested mass o e powers, an influenced every quarter of the civilised world.
itth.a,_,a in those judgments what the law was. The to intro•luce a Bill for the extension of bail in error. It 11° was obtai d
ne beyond the ordinary power, and in a
Iman-.
eer‘eddlrator of the land and the lawgiver wyre two was repocted that a statement te ihat effect had been I.*
chose Vo turn the N oble Lord's ie e had no hesitation in say' that the majority made up on tier f
this point, for if he
Id draev from it a the late occasion was nomghonour to that House.—( Hear, le atal to the health of the female adults so emp oyed
J tutterent offieers. His (Lord Brougham's) (pinion weapons against 'himself, he cou e had received several delegations from the manufacturers
Was th made by the Lord Chant ellor in the other House. hear.) How man vot
Y es had been given on that side of the •
tioe ae this Bill would be very beneficial in ite opera- Sir J. GRAHAM was not aware that any etatement mass oi proofs of the existence of misery of every
Hou '
etn censequence of th course ursued b the Hon himself, and he could state to the House positively that several
`e tle
'Wit, . thought nothing. could be more consistent of that kind had been made. If the I ionourable Gen:le- kind among the labou ,
rers of this country.—(Hear.) ' . e e p Y • of the manufacturers paying the largest amount of wages were
h h was Member for stockport? They said the manufacturers had favourable to the clause limiting the hours of female labour in
'I justice and common sense than the measure now Now he would take one in this town. 1 e one e
Proposed man would repeat the question on Monday, he would en- . . • h . •ment of the 'nst them and e
gone apt , teey would put a torch among them.— factories to twelve hours. The Hon. Gentleman asked, why
the e by his Noble and Learned Friend, because he A about to mention might excite t e mem (Hear, hear.) It behoved the h d
ot-er siee to show that the •
ueavi iur to an, ''t
wet i . he believed continue legislation to interfere with machinery? In the first
te ultat it might well he surmised from the religielis Hou,e ; but he tneutioeed it because
nets ,e. CRIMINAL LAW. course they had taken was the right one. end why, after being place he had frequently stited to the House that the inter-
h f d
were t e oun ers what their intentiens Mr. WATSON wiehed to usk oe the IV ght Hon Bart. they were a. more sore y ..
I taxed class of labourers twelve years in office, why after being kept in darkness for so f '
erence was contrary to principle. He admitted that the de-
fo.,..e. respecting the doctnnes to be eaught in . these i he meant the ars she li ht tlbk ' u on them. No h
than any in the community _ . many ye _ g a ast ro e. in p
lat the head of tier Ofejesty's Government ehether it w e parture from the principle led them into greater difficulty ; but
Lineations e use he telt the necessity of u
e„,l ~ .B ca u wee an i
e • e , was the intention of her Majesty's Government to intro- woinen-otea. h Lord's an
11-work in the city of London. (Hear, wanted to know what was the Noble p acea, and then it must be remembered, that in labour connected with
it7e.e.e vexatious litigation, and fulfilling the original I
1 duce any mea,ure fi eluded on the report of the Criminal hear. Let tem p
corn are their condition with whether it would be worth anything ? It was to prevent the machinery, the Legislature had a power to interfere which it
'enition
th , of the donors, he returned his sincere 1
Law Commiesion ? that of the factory girls, and the condition of the latter labourer from labouring more than ten hours ; what would be
d. had not in other cases. Upon the more important point, whe-
ould be •
"Its to le-
tup , is Nohle Friend on the Woolsa .
ek for the Sir J. GRAHAM said that the Hon. Gentleman hay- would be e iund a paradise compared with that of the the consequence ? The
.consequ,ence,)w h
_an imme late ther they were justified in that interference, he.
'• ne had int e and ho ed that it would meet ' •
with e roduc d. p former —(Hear hear.) Let them compare h
t-e man lowering of wages—(Cries of •No ' _..,y en Hon. Members could not state his opinion more succinctly than in the words
Inee some weeks ago given him private notice of his in • • f . - . d ry cc No, no," -they should Prove how this "no " will happen, of the re
. en.
every support from their Lordships. tendon to put the, questii •n, he had since directed his at- who worked in factories with the men who were eneage c port of Monsieur C. Dupin, in the French Chamber.
en Bis
duty t • hop of EXETER certainly felt it to be his tendon to the subject. The Criminal law Commissioners in agriculture.—(Hear, he .)
ar He found that those „
'''' and he would then bow down to their opinion. The number ('rhe Right Hon. Baronet then quoted the words from the
of iatiourers would remain the same, the demand for work pamphlet of M. Dupin, but in so low a tone of voice that it ,
eularl ° oppose this Bill most strongly, and more parti-
stiegested the repeal of obeolete statutes; as that involved who worked in factories were covered and sheltered
would be the sarne, but eaelfri.!Tevidual labourer would be de- was impossible to catch more than its import, which we under-
(*Lee): its . first clause, because he though! the
the consideration of various details, many of the statutes ffom all the inclemency of the seasons; he foupd that
prayed of a certain portion o i h
W h et; all rhs ' atnhd would thus ip reality stood to be in advocacy of the restriction of machinery labour
ti,J__:ate and intentions of the Bill were to set aside all
pas ed in the reign of Elizabeth, aed James the First, n
t. ey ha.d good. pay, and that they were far happier than be a less efficient labourers. a
persat!, h erehfo.re, came into the to twelve hours.) Since the last discussion he had received a
1.4.7 e redness and integrity of those trusts. If the havin it apneared fallen into disuse, it was the inten- h
t e agricultunets, who were exposed to cold, and wet, market he would come a_
s_ _ wo, elng less efficient, report from Mr. Horner who had inspected several of the
"11 tette recommended by the Noble and Learned • g' • • ' and feoet; and to have bad pay, bad clothing, and bad must ask, as he could only a.k, less.wages. Take the mann- most extensive of the factories. In nine factories 697 persons
. rd ow th er.
e w oolsack were true and just, it should d' h• tt •
teen of her Majesty's Government to irect t e A enuon
lodging.—(llear, hear.) The factory workers had facturer :he had a large pnrtion of his capital invested in ma- were on ave
ne care of the law-advisers of the Crewn to that subject. t was the 1 r an rage employed in each. Of these more than fifty
v.,
.._. ied out to the fullest extent. He would oppose better pay, less toil, better clothing, and better chinery and mills t tha a ger portion of his pro- per cent. were females and of the females seventy per cent.
"is 8111, be BANK CHART En. . but a smaller portien of it was contained in - b v 'ht '
aii,„,__,
~ cause he contended its tendency was to dis- Mr. F. BARING wished to know what course it was .
lodging. And what was there to distin- duein powers , f age. 27 r cent. were
were. ad o e eig een yea,rs o t
t_
at r it Pe
1 f t • h gi: tins of a labourer, acting as a labourer. The menu-
meb7 the intention of the founders; for if they had no gins 1 ac ory men in such a way as to require t e exer 1 marrie women. It was impor ant h es ric ion
- f should be
proposed to follow on Monday with -reference to the len twelve hours a day produced a certai -
eet of knowing what those irtentions were, the Bill he interference of the Legislature in their behalf? facturer wor i g n quan placed upon the labour of children and young persons and
h h
W°Uld be Bank Charter. He wished to know if the First Lord t et ten ours e would produce less B t
u females, but this principle should not be carried to too great an
pew, _ wholly useless, and all they would have to de- Hear hear.) He feund two circumstances to distin- tity, and wore.ng .
t turer re • d •
of the Treasury intended on Monday merely to make ( ' . • • the.capital of the manu ac maine the same. His fixed extent or else it would create a greater evil than it pro-
e,,,,,:e._.upon was the general usages with respect to those , guish his position. Those who worked in factories were ld call it remained the s •
a statement of his proposition without calling for the capital, as he wou , . ame , but his floating posed to remedy. The concluding words of the Right Hon.
.. t;h7" . He also thought it tended directly to counteract regated into masses which invited investigation—
pnnei le of
lAmai p the statute passed upon this subject, decision of the House, or if it was intended at once 1 eung ' ca
hi h •nsured inspection—which brou ht their condition '
nital on the form
to ask ;or the decision of the House o the propositions w--e--- 1 . • g less. Under these circums .
n of wages would differ, and would produce Baronet were spoken in so low a tone that they were altogether
tances oue of three things would inaudible iri the gallery.
aw.._
eY the 53d of Geo. 111. Their Lordships must be
which would be laid before it ? continually before the public.—(llear, hear.) They •ces must rise or rofit
happen. Either pri , „ s. p s upon stock must ! Mr. LABOUCHERE rose amid loud cries of " divide."
4r I common cle • s ical law 3 lied to a vast
nom, _ e c Ala t .pp , The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had not did '
not live like the agriculturists, far distant diminish, or wages must tall. Which would take place? He said the question before the House was a very plain one—
ter_oe.l• of offences—he should, perhaps more property the gaze of local superintendents, who Prices could not rise, for they had foreign compe- , whether it was fitting for the House to assent to a restriction
had an opportunity of seeing the First Lord of the ! tr°lll
te,„'" them sins--of which the ordinary criminal law of might bring their misery and toil before the world, who tition on every side of thern.—( Hear At th
) e present on adult labour which existed in no other country.—(Hea.r.)
Treasury since he had had notice of the Right Hon ' much as th *
eeeew country took no cognisance, amongst which he Gentleman's nest' • b ' •-- •* could bring down indignation upon the masters, and moment, it was as . .
a. . e manufacturer could do He felt bound to record his opi i h ;
n.on t_at _t was most unwise,
"light enumerate incest, which was not declared a crime • q, ion, ~ut hF believed that it was his
make their agricultural tyrants tremble. Now such was to maintain his footing tn tne lorelgn market, and, by a mere inexpedient, and highly injurious to embark in this course.
Right Hon. 1 riend s int uld be driv
entton not to call upon the
aceercien to th law He feared that he was turn of the scale, he we . en out of one-half of it.— The speech he had just heard only confirmed his former views,
of the factory workmen Their condi-
not the condition . .
rem . g e statute •. . . House to agree to ,any resolutions on Monday if there etc N " from Mr. Hindley.) The Hon Me ber said ent had in
o, no, m and he only regrgtted that her Alajesty's Governm
r uing si hopeless task in opposing this Bill, because
should be any ob'ec • •- ' ' tion was to be congregated in multitudes, which multi- e Ahe would et * rous and inex-
ekn j don to hie propositions. " No." He wishes. g lip by-and_hye, and state the first instance introduced a principle so dange
I e ew how vast was the power of the Noble and SIR A. HENNIKER'S CHARGE. tudes made of themselves a force which invited attest-
eee, arned Lord on the Woolsack in that House. The how it would he " No, no." The Hon. Gentleman should pedient.—(Hear. ) He frankly admitted that he would not him-
410ble Atr. T. DUNCOMBE rose to call the attention of the tion, from the very fact of their being congregated really take more eare how he expressed his opinions, for he had self have brought forward the motion the Hon. and Lear_noned
. wits . and Learned Lord was sure to triumph, for he House to a letter which he had received on the b. t • into masses, which covered them with an tegis of pro- changed them all round.—.( Hear, hear.) There was a class Member for Bath had submitted to the House ; but that
.H
..t
within that House a giant—a Briarteus—(Laughter)— of a quotation which he had made from ch su
.jeer ,
1 tection from the mere fact of being thus exhibited to the ee persons who claernect infallibility for themselves, though and Learned Member having done so, he felt bordlic re td
a hundred arms, for a hundred of their Lordships ar 0, si,,
. wer A. Henniker to the grand jury of Suffacla ! public gaze.—(Hear, hear.) That he found was the first they were the most ehange,ahl,e of men. In every change they his most cordial support. The Gnverennm.eonutrisl, 6 n
clausem, rt'li'linch
• or Ixreet ady to rise up and support him. He (the Bishop noise in the House, which continued durin, rom t e
characteristic of their condition, and one consequence of were always infallible, an° always intolerant ; and, change as creditably resisted the proposition of a t h
) most heartily concurred in the amendment • h H g the whole t • minent dan er to the
ddlin with the woula it never suggested itself to them that they might he thought was fraught with the mos im • g
that hadrb - • • R F 'end that this tone t e onourable Member was speakine, we had , that condition was the present me g y
li,„ , een moved by hts Right ev. ri. , great difficulty in collecting even th e.'
f I • their position.—(Loud cheers.) The factory labourer have been wrong
' throughout. But he was b hth t ost im anent interests of this country. He had been
a ont to sow . a m . . p ,
e which might increase their
"1 be committed that day six months. e purport o Ils
observations. We understo dt i t • • kd in conjunction with machinery, which being put
wor e must happen— 'th unwilltn to take any cours
one of three theses. ei er prices must rise, . g _ _
t now say that he entirely
Lord COTTENHAM was ready to share in any
deba o i m o say that in the
te on the Masters and Servants Bill he had quoted into fair ordinary Englis me
h ant this h
, t at the ma- P °
r fits must diminish, or wages must fall. It was im- eldficulty, but he mus
ed Member for Bath, that the
odium wh• h ' he Noble and ssible that prices could rise while they were agreed with the Hon. and Le.arn . _ .
Learned le
might be thrown upon !, .
~ e from a charge of Sir A. Henniker to the grand --ury f chinery had all the hard work, and that the labourer
Po
o d to such foreign competition. There was Government had introduced into legislation a most dangerous,
this mea Lord on the Woolsack, for birtinglrlf ni°Orwwistrhu- Suffolk, in which that gentleman stated his beliii.f thrott had that which required mental labour.—(Hear, hear.) ,9' !,
etne 'united States, Germany, Switzerand, and France, vague, novel, and unprecedentede princitler7( Hear,k hear.)
atandin stu_re ; and he should suppo.rtht
he
ad been thrown unless the landlords. did something to alleviate the con- , It would not do for the Noble Lord and Gentlemen op- and he wanted to k.now how were the manufacturers The Right Hon..Gentltemeao
ohdada._ndeay.Jl e tot mfa edout a
. out ,g he dark insinuations whic ~ i dition of the lab•imeng classes incendiarism wo Id ' Posite to say that as machinery was improved, the labour of this kingdom, who, within the last few years, had lost some special case, but in tha. hhfl dd l Iff "
1 e . we in er ere and ,
e oY the lei vould ask their •
4,ordshi ght Rev. Prelate. He r . 1 , u con- •
, i onue to increase, and not the whole of the metropolitan of the operative was increased. He (Mr. Roebuck) portion of their markets in every quarter of the globe, either in restricted the hours with regard to au t ema es, there was no
the ali hts w
n hether i
, a.ter what they had heard, they felt i e h Id t t•th h
n why we s ou no res rtc t e ours regarding
France, or. Switzerland to stand up sufficient rebate:,
poace force could keep the country quiet. That denied that proposition. In every process, as machinery America, Germany,
k• this ' Wy, if this principle were carried out, the
hat c • • males. d ar must ex-
Bill g
eest doubt as to the propriety of 'ma ing .0 , was the puruort of his remarks ; and he advanced, its peculiarity was absolutely to emitate the against an increase of t ompetetion ? In every case a turn
1 1-b • f t • s ltoeeth
. he..._, to law of the land? Their Lordships h a begged to s"Y that he had not intentionally human mind—that itdischarged offices which,a priori,two in the scale would dri . .
ve them from the market In thatbranch elude ma e a our in ac one a , er, an stop machinery.
ei. ara all that could be said against it. Both • f I b osth th
the constituents of the Hon. Member for Was actory a our wr e an e average of employments e
of trade for which
eels R; ,_ , e misrepresented Sir Augustus Henniker. In a letter centuries ago, if any one anticipated, he would have
brated, and in which the le of England He thought not. So far from the factory lab b • '
law igat Rey. Prelates had argued upon tn which he had received on this subject, it was stated been described as a dreamer. It relieved the labour of 1 Sheffield were cele peop our eing a worse
of this case, and upon the policy, as if it were
.a that Sir Augustus had said that he could not close his were co.nsith b 11
'clered to be supreme a ove a the people o t e wor , specie
f h ld •s of employment, he thought it was vastly preferable to
question d the operative, and reduced him, in reality, to be a mere ale at this moment would drive them from the others, and there were many favonrahle circumstances exclu-
tt
senior, epoending between the congregations now in eyes to the wide-spread spirit of discontent. (The Hon. superintendent of a certain line of superhuman power. ! a turn in esc
hear. ) Take America. America would sively connected with it. There was one fact which struck
, a d some other class of persons who had M .mber here read the letter alluded to and •t He deni 1 market.—( Hear,
ell uisposa.. d • - • w tt , i appeared, ed that such improvements in machinery in- ,
• compete with them in every market. She had a sagacious po- him very .
forcibly—the immense number of females employed
el th --se • This was quite an erroneous vie as far as we could gather, that the version of Sir Au- creased the labour of those who superintended that ' • h possessed of a peculiar knowledge of the in factory labour. in the mane
e case and he
, had no doubt that their Lordshi s . pulation, w 0 were facturing districte, and h
t e pre-
l'e'relld see
. , that it was The R• ht R P late who had 1 •
ig ev. re . , P , gustus' speech given in the letter did not differ mate- machinery. He put forward that Proposition without , power of machinery, and by whoM all the changes that had ference these female had for such labour, so much so in factthat
himself hay" o• for the last thirty ears have been females could not be obtained for d '
just sat dow had . . . , nally from that which the Hen. Member had preTi„osty _. . ino the slightest doubt of its accuracy. . taken place in machinery .d h y omestic employment. In
number _ n evidently referred lately to a great , oiven.,
) He (Mr. T. Duncombe) beeged to express his u of ma- f •t a wom n e
e invited every man who knew or who wished . made, and who had therefore substitute te. powher t _ _ at, „ h h a s rvant could not be got there.—( Hear, hear.)
~,,,,,...„ .
aol law books, but he had omitted one which i '
regret if he had misrepresented the purport of the to know anything about the matter, to task ' ehinerY for .handieraft. If. they tampered • with t e rardte
lof He t oug t that was a practical answer to those who talked of
1 ii'ilici u.. h v e set him entirely right upon the subject. i charge, but it appeared to him that the only iit to the utmost ; and he asserted this, that every ad- , England, and. with the capital employed in lahour, ever so it e, the unwholesomeness, and the disagreeableness, and . the
Mat Right Rev. Prelate, in the course of his legal I lot them take cars lest America and France would not outsell danger of factory labour.—( Hear, hear.) A very clever

1111 rf,T,? ,t, ‘III.T VTENT

ineestigsthin. turnrel to the case of Lord Chohnondeley,
hay eettel that tilU Vie I,f the t.Uttl et of )
his
Bill which he h ;el rakes was entirely erroneous, at least
with respect to the law of the case. 'the Right Rev.
Prelate, in the course of his speech, had said that heresy
was still punishable. It was punishable, it was true, but
in what courts was it punishable? Why, it was punish-
able in those very courts which the Right Rev. Prelate
himself had so strenuously defended, namely, the
diocesan courts. Now he (Lord Cottenham) trusted
that what the Right Rev. Prelate had said that
night woo d be represented to the House of Commons.—
(Laughter)—hetere they passed the Ecele,iagtical
Courts Bill. With reseeet to the Bill hefere their Lord.
ships, he would remind the House that many of the
chapels to which it referred, had been consi terribly en-
larged at great expense by the present congregations,
and he would ask how were they to deed ith such eases?
From the sta., ements which app:ared in the petitions
which he had pi esented n this subject. it would be seen
that in seine ca-es chapels of the petitieners 111,d t.een
held by them and their latedecessors for 150 years, in
ethers 100, and so en. The intention of this Bill was
to afford that protection to property of Dis.enting con-
gregatiens which every other person or species of pro-
ery pose-see. It was merely to prot.att I hat property
which had been enjeyed by those tameregattens fre -o
mile), years, and lie the..ea)re hoped their Lordships
eould feel perfectly sattstied that, in letssieg this Btll,
they were only protecting those persons from injustice,
inconvenience, and loss.
Tile Bishop of EXE TER said the Noble and Learned
Lord who had just sat down mistook his (the Bi. hop of
Exeter's) meaning,. What he had said, and what he
would again rep.et, was, that he would wish to see all
power which the Established Church possessed over the
Dissenting clastes abolished, provided that they were
prevented ft otn interfering with the rights and privileges
of Churchmen.
Lord CAMPBELL supported the Bill, becawe. he
thought, that on the brofel principle, and in the stint of
the law, the Dis,enters were entitle to the same protec-
tion with reference to their property as other persons,
and hecawe he felt assured that the law, as it at present
stood, inflicted much hardship at inconvenience upon
those bodies. Such being his conviction, he could net
help expressing his hope that it e as net the inteetien of
the Right Rev. Prelate opposite to divide the House upon
this question.
The Bishop of LONDON said it was not his intention
to divide the House.
Lord TEYNHAM would oppose the Bill, because he
thought it was calculated to inflict much hardship upon
many parties, and also because of the number of peti-
tions which had been presented by various bodies of
Dissenters disapproving of the measure. He agreed
with the Noble and Learned Lord that something re-
quired to be done, but certainly this Bill would not at
all provide a remedy for the evils which now existed.
It was true that these congregations had had
possession of those chapels for many years,
but then they also had enjoyed all their
concomitant advantages. He felt that passing this
Bill would be a gro..s injustice, because those sums
of money were grantel, not for the promotion of parti-
cular doctrines, but for the purpeses of true h. Such
being his opinion, he f. It justified in coinciding in the
expression that this Bill was one of spoliation, and he
much regretted that it should be sanctioned by any high
and honourable body of her Majesty's subjects. lie
questioned very much whether this Bill would prevent
litigation, for if the trustees of any of these chapels
should find that their ministers were preaching doctrines
contrary to the doctrine of the particular sect to which
they belonged, it would then be the duty of those trus-
tees to bring those ministers into Court. Believing that
this Bill would open a wide door to litigation, he should
ooprse it.
The amendment was then put and negatived without
a division.
The Bill then passed through Committee, was re-
ported, and ordered to be read a third dine on Monday.
The Eastern Counties Railway Bill was read a third
me and passed.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

....-`..

~~.`~ i~

pamphlet had lately come into his hands, written by Mr. Godby, i had hitherto pursued. It was a feeble and hesitatunteteetl 'ens ,-,
on factory labour in America, and that intelligent writer beginning, but still it was a commencement, _ tbiS't ' --'l--;,/,‘ri,
stated that in the factory of the Messrs. Lawrence in New curie in whatever shape the House adopted, the,e,Bltree-f-:-4s'-';',•. -
York, there were 7(10 persons employed, many of whom were it recognised the principle that the House ou Irist 11 ---'1
females, and the hours of labour in this factory were from five ' impose a-limitation of the number of hours dursittr. ,„, „ rt..
A.M. until seven re et., allowing only the intermission of half females ought to labour. He therefore hailed tl'enattsiti-s'inla
an hour for meals. Now, there was the freest country in the with satisfaction, not that he regarded it as a perfect measure,
world with females working from five in the morning until but because he approved of the principle of defining by law a
seven at night.-(Hear.) He very much feared that limitation of labour. They could not expect that this measure
if they interfered much further with women's labour in fac- would extirpate the evils arising from competition. They
tories they would drive them into other modes of employment,,', were tco deeply rooted to be remedied by it. All that the
less wholesome, and less profitable. If interference could be ' House could do was to deal with the intensity of the struggle
at all sanctioned, it was in protecting little children-there'; for employment. He believed that the true remedy for the
protection might be necessary. He was very much struck evil would be to throw open the field of labour by breaking
by the evidence of one of the factory inspectors at Warrington. down the artificial restrictions and harriers which the present
He said there were three kinds of employment there-fustian system imposed upon it. He should, therefore, entertaining
cutters, factory labourers, and pin-head makers. The last was I these views, support the measure, whether in the shape it now
an employment of a most revolting description, and he would stood, or in the shape which be still hoped it would ultimately
not harrow the feelings of Hon. Members, by going into detail assume. He believed that it would ultimately, if not imme-
upon it. By the restrictions the Legislature had imposed diately, mitigate the evils which grew out of this intense corn-
upon the labours of women and children, they were driven into petition of labour, and hold out a hope that by degrees it would
this pin-making and fustian cutting, and at these lead to what he thought would be the only complete and effee-
unwholesome and dangerous employments children con- • tual improvement, and that they would shortly be driven by
tinued until when ?- until they were of an age at which i it to the abolition of those monopolies which, he believed, were
the law permitted them to go into factories.-( Hear, hear.) , at tile bottom of the whole question.
lie mentioned that as showing how restriction, even when Sir ROBERT PEEL said that it was necessary, in the
best intended, had dose harm. Hs was not one of those who I first place, clearly to un lerstand what was meant by the
said that they should not modify the principle of free labour ; i' word principles.-( Hear.) 't here certainly were prin-
but eh it he did say was that, when widely departed from, it ! ciples which ought not to be violated by any
did more harm than good.-( Hear, hear.) He had never ! Legislature. They were founded on moral and social feelings.
given a vote with greater confidence in the justice of the prin- ! They were the principles enjoined by religion. They were
ciple he was supporting, or with a firmer belief that he was principles which the heart and conscieni eof every man told
supporting the best interests of the working classes, and the him were concurrent with the dictates of justice and humanity,
general goad of the country at large, than the vote he would 1 and by these principles, as he understood them, legislation
that night give in support of the motion of the Hon. and ought to be conducted. Th re were certain other rules which
Learned Gentleman.-( Cheers. ) I were occasionally called principles, which were not founded
Captain RODS was against all manner of interference with either upon morality tsr religion, but which had a binding for e
labour, and thought the Government should not have intro- upon legislation, because long experience and observance 0 f
duced the Bill. 't hey had no right to dictate to the master facts told them they were rules concurrent with the dictates c f
manufacturers as to who they should employ, or how long prudence, and therefore ought to be the guides of a Legisla-
they would employ them Why, if they once sanctioned the sure. He admitted that these principles, as the Noble Lord
principle, it would be extended so that merchants would have called them, but which he rather thought were general rules of.
Inspectors getting into their counting-houses, and bankers would , legislation, were determin, d not by any innate and intuitive
have their accounts overhauled by these pry ing functionaries. 1 sense of what was right, but were determined by the observ.
There was another reason why he felt warmly excited u; on 1 anee of facts, and the conclusions of wisdom, drawn from lung
this subject. It was thi, :-Having broken through a prin- experience. When they said, therefore, that any enactment
ciple, they would have to carry out their new-fangled theories was conformable with certain principles, all they meant is as
by a whole host of new functionaries. Already they had new this, that their general experience told them that such was
police in almost every town, county police, factory inspectors, the general rule to which their general legislation ought to -
and sub-inspectors, and now they would be compelled to have conform ; and the question in these cases was always this-
an enormous addition to the list of their salaried servants. Will the practical good derived from any particul s r
Thus would their expenses increase as they limited the hours enactment, in a particular case, countervail the evils}
of labour and diminished the means of meeting those expenses. of that enactment? Now, he contended, that it was a geed:
The consequence would be pressure beyond endurance, hank- general rule for them to observe, to leave persons to judge foe'
ruptcy, and the best of their capitalists flying with their money, themselves what was the most profitable mode of employing
their industry, and their skill, to other lands.-( Hear, hear.) their labour. He thought there was another general ru'e re-
in conclusion, he begged leave to say it was easy to be free commended, not merely by religion, but by the strong dictates
with other people's money-( Hear, hear)-easy to make them- of prudence and experience, namely, that they should leave •
selves popular at other people's expense.-( Hear, hear.) He parents to judge what was the best mode bath of educating
should, therefore, support the amendment of the Hon. and and employisg their children. That was a rule which he ap-
Learned Member for Bath, and he only wished he had gene to prehended they must respect. They might be convinced of
the extent of moving that the Bill be proceeded with that day the advantage of the rich man sending his son to school-that
six months. it was very wrong he should be allowed to waste his time
Mr. S. CRAWFORD said it appeared to him that many without receiving at least the rudiments of science and learn-
Hon. Members were too apt to forget that the operatives of ing. then why not pass a law compelling the rich man to
this country were not free agents, and that they were not in a educate his son ? They did not legislate, not because they did
condition to protect themselves.-( Hear, hear.) Such was not believe that legislation might improve the condition of the
the helpless condition both of the working man and the working child, but because they thought it better that the law should
woman, and, therefore, it was the duty of the Legislature to respect the great principles of liberty, and trust to the parents
step in, the same as it had before stepped In, to shield those for the education and control over the child. He agreed that
who were not able to protect themselves. The cause of the the state of the working classes was unsatisfactory. He ad-
present state of things was to be found in this, that the labour matted that the Legislature had not sufficiently attended to
market was overcharged.: The present Bill before the House their moral condition. He admitted that the aecumulation
would maternity diminish this evil ; and if it were for this of wealth was not the only subject for the consideration of the
alone, he should hold it to be a good and useful measure. The Legislature. He admitted that the moral strength and power
House, also, in considering this question, ought to bear in mind of the country did not depend entirely upon its wealth. But
that the poor man had lost his claim, his vested right, to sue- he thought he must always ask himself this question. When
tour in the hour of trouble by the poor-law, and this without you begin legislation nothing is easier than to lay down general
regaining his hold upon the land, so that he never would rules ; but he would ask, would their intermeddling and inter-
be in a condition to maintain his own rights or ference with the rights and liberties of the people be likely to
position, or to make a good fight with his em- conduce, not merely to their wealth, but to their social comfort
ployers. It was said that wages would fall if and happiness? He admitted that the social happiness and
a Bill restricting the hours of labour passed that comforts of the people ought to be regarded. Looking at the
House. He (Mr. Crawford) had always understood that manufacturing population, and seeing that they had no means
wages were regulated by supply and demand. That had hi- of amusement, no means of relaxation-seeing that what once
therto always been the argument there. He would ask then were villages were become immense towns, and were yet sub-
of the manufacturers, it they would enter into an engagement jest merely to the same discipline as they possessed when they
that wages should hereafter continue as now if there was no in- were mere villages ; when he saw spaces overcrowded, yet
terference with the hours of labour, and if they would not con- with no portion of that space appropriated to amusement and
sent to do that, how could they assert that wages would fall ? recreation ; that they had nothing to divert them from con-
Under such circumstances he did feel that both humanity and stant labour except indulgence in sensual habits, he thought
justice demanded that protection should be extended to the the Legislature might, with great advantage, apply the public
working classes. The Hon. and Learned Member (Mr. Roe- wealth to the means of promoting the recreations and amuse-
buck) had said, if they really wished to serve the working mews of the people. 'that would be a perfectly legitimate in-
classes-if they were sincere in their desire to alleviate their terference on the part of the Government. But that
sufferings-let them be invested with power to come into that was a perfectly different question from the presents
House and legislate for themselves. He (Mr. Crawford) -( Hear.) For he must ask himself, should he improve
heartily echoed that sentiment ; and he would add, that if it their moral condition, should be to elevate them in the social
were carried out into practice, he had not a doubt on his own scale, if, by any enactment, he controlled their own appliea-
mind that the Bill of the Noble Lord ( Ashley) would instan- tion to their labour? He conceded to the Noble Lord, if he asked:
taneously pass. For these reasons he should support the Bill him whether he should prefer that a child should work, rtes
of that Noble Loid, and oppose the motion of the Hon. and hours instead of twelve, lie would tell the Noble Lord at anise
Learned Member for Bath, and in doing this he was satisfied that he should infinitely prefer his working ten. If the Noble
he should be acting in perfect accordance with the feelings and Lord asked him whether he should wish to see mothers work-
wishes of those whom he had the honour to represent in that ing eight hours a day instead of ten, and able to devote sonic,
House. portion of their time to attendance to domestic cares and the,
Mr. ROSS (Belfast) said the delusion which had prevailed superintendence of their families, he would tell the Nobi'er
upon this aubject amongst the work-people of the town he hail Lord that he perfectly admitted he should prefer the shorter
the honour to represent, had now passed away. The masters period of labour, and the increased attendance on their domes-
had not lett the matter to their overseers, but had gone amongst tic duties, to their present state ; but, after havine made that
their work-people in person, and talked the matter over fairly admission, did it necessarily follow that it would be far the
with them. He had explained the whole matter to them, and advantage of that woman to say to her that she should not
the consequence was, that whilst the seen had declared that they work more than ten hours a day, and prescribe to her tiq en.-
should be glad to have more time to themselves, they had ex- actment, the exact mode in which she should dispose. of' doer
pressed their conviction that a limitation of hours must lead to labour? It was true, they might apply the principle in the case
a reduction of wages, and to this they were not prepared to submit. of factories ; but the Noble Lord opposite rejoiced in this.
They wished things to remain as they were, and he therefore felt limited appli-ation of the principle, because he saw that it.
it his duty to oppose the Bill of the Noble Lord the Member for must be much further extended. He (Sir Robert
Dorset shire. Peel) said the other night that there were count-
Lord HOWICK said he did not rise to discuss the ten or less trades and occupations imposing heavier burdens
twelve-hour question ; in common fairness to the Noble Lord upon the labourer than the work in mills and factories
( Ashley) that should be deferred until the time arrived for imposed upon the factory labourers. lithe Noble Lord's prin.
taking his amendment into consideration. The Hon. and ciple were good, and if it could be effected, the Noble Lord
Learned Member for Bath had urged arguments which, though ought to extend his interference to them also. He t Sir R.
specious, he could easily show to be shallow. But Peel), therefore, said, beware how they applied it toe preeipi •
he would refrain from doing so at that moment, and tately to factory labour, because, if they did so, they must. at
confine himself strictly to the question before the House. the same tim, take care not to give a permission to restrictions
He was anxious to know how the Right Hon. Baronet opposite on other kinds of labour more onerous, and more beyond the r
would reconcile his opposition with the argument which he control. And how was he ( Sir R. Peel) met? The Noble-
used in the House on the late debate, because in that debate Lord wished them to go on to extend their principliebeyond the:
the Right Hon. Baronet objected to the amendment of his twenty kinds of labour to which it might be applied, to the twist
Noble Friend as being against all principle. Now it had never hundred others to which it ought to be applied. The NeVrte
occurred to him ( Lord Howick) that he would have taken the I ord said the present measure only showed him the greater
course he had done, namely, that of stating that his measure necessity for Parliament to act not only in controlling faotory
was a violation of principle as well as that of the Noble Lord. labour, but ail other kinds of labour. 'He (Sir R. Peel) said
He must confess that lie was unprepared for such a statement that was impossible. He said, that thou sh they might apply it
from a Minister of the Crown. Were they, he would ask, to be to great buildings and large works which were comparatively
told this, and yet be advised to pass the measure aNo .y what was under control, yet, to go into any house, to go to the workshop•
understood by a general principle? It was some conclusion of any tailor, who worked his hundreds of men for 15 hours.
drawn from a multitude of facts, upon which was founded what a day, to go to the room of the sempstress, who worked here
was considered the wise mode of legislation. Now he (Lord three or four females for 16 hours a day-if One.;
Howick) was prepared to go further in defence of the Govern- sought to establish such interference in individual casess, they
ment measure than the Right Hon. Baronet himself. He con- were about to establish a system of individual inquis;!,don and
sidered that it involved the violation of no sound principle of individual tyranny. Some good might be produced, by effect-
legislation. Now what was the principle which it was said had ing a reduction a labour from sixteen hours to twetlve ; but in
been violated? He would state it in language far better than the end they would entirely change the character of the Eng-
his own, namely, in the words of the author of fish people. They would firing them to depend entirely upon,
the " Wealth of Nations ;"-. The property of every man the Government, and they would then have indeed to support
is in his own labour ;it is sacred and inviolate. The property an army of domestic inspectors and sub-inspectors, and the only
of a poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his hands; protection against such interference and tyranny, would be-
and if any one interfere with it it is a violation of every just that it would become so odious to the whole mass of society,.
and right principle." He agreed that the principle was a just that it would be impossible. Then, when were they to make •
one, and one that could not be perverted. Men could judge the exception, for on that, which was a general rule, they were:
fur themselves better than any Government, as to the employ- bound not merely to consider the policy of limiting the labour:
ment of their labour and capital, and the wisest thing to lead to twelve hours, but whether they would by doing so ~_,,alit,
to the wealth of a nation was to give every individual full promote the social charcter and happiness of the people?: Cie
scope for his own exertions. The power of the production of would admit that it might be a good thing to limit the bseurs of
a nation was developed by giving the most unlimited freedom factory labour. But there were other trades, such ass fustian- .
to individual exertions.-( Hear, hear.) All restrictions im- cutting and pin-heading. If he was not to restrict them,,
posed upon industry impaired its efficiency, and from this it was then it was perfectly open to him to consider velteetteer the ad'-
most properly argued that these restrictions, when the wealth vantage gained by interference in particular instances, wiessist
of the nation was considered,were most unjust. If they deprived countervail the disadvantage of giving a preMinee and en•
a man of turning his industry to the best account, hey in- couragement to employments that were still ranee unhealthy-
flicted the greatest injury they could upon him. For instance, Let him in that case suppose they interfered with those em-
if they prevented a man from taking Dantzic corn, of which ployed to resider their condition better, would they be adding-
'he could get twenty quarters for the price he could get fifteen to their comforts?-(Hear, hear.) His object and desire to
in this country, that inflicted a great injury upon him.- promote their happiness would be conntervailed by his inter-
( Hear, hear.) To increase the wealth was not the only object ference, and therefore he was bound to consider whether a de-
of a Government.-( Hear, hear.) The morel and physical parture from the general rule was one which wisdom and expe-
welfare of the great body of the people was the true object for rience sanctioned ; and if it was proved to him that an excep-
which Governments were formed, Industry was most pro- tion to the rule would increase the moral comforts of the peo-
ductive when least trammelled by the law. And he wished pie, he thought such exception would be justified ; but these
the House would agree with that, or discuss the monopoly of must show him it would have this effect.-( Hear, hear.) Them
corn, coffee, and other things.-( Hear, hear.) It was only with regard to the Ten Hours' Bill, he admitted that if he toolk
two or three years ago that the House passed a Bill prohibiting a narrow and limited view of it, it would in certain times Led
the labour of women in mines, without any opposition.-(Cries in certain localities, have a good effect ; but would they; irons-
of "No.") An Hon. Member cried " No;'' he believed he stood pal other nations to follow their example, and if they did not,,
alone in that opinion ; for his own part, he (Lord Howick) what would be the consequence?-(Hear, hear.) Why, was.
never saw a Bill go through the House with more unanimous it possible to suppose that persons whose labour was restrieteds
assent. If that measure was right and well-founded there was an would receive the wages of more lengthened employment It-e
end of the principle that had been said so much about. Now, ( Hear, bear.) Was it not common sense, that if they re-
if they were prepared to maintain that principle, if they were duced the time from ten to twelve hours, the wages would be
really prepared to carry it out, they must go this length-that reduced in proportion ? Suppose that by this measure they.
if a man was inclined to sell himself for a slave, he should be stimulated the manufactures of ether nations-of France and
allowed to do so.-( Hear, hear.) He was persuaded, if the the United States; suppose they raised up great manufaettitsrhiregd
•
law allowed it, such bargains would be made ; as he was per- establishments in those countries and by that means
such a mea-
dimi n
fectly convinced that in times of great distress many persons the power of employing labour at home suppose
would be persuaded by capitalists to go to the colonies in no sure could take away that which constituted the
(Hear, hear. )--.
clthe independence,
other character, and that would doubtless have been advan- the moral character of the lrabby ers
on to
honeeswt
oarnkdhouir,..de-.
tageous to both parties ; but to sow into society the elements namely, the desire to earn a subsistenceeatuhr
of slavery, would far outweigh any good that could pendent labour ; suppose it drove
be obtained. If any principle had been violated ( Hear, gear)-suppose the
means of employment failed, bl-
market, in consequence of oth,,s
on this subject it was first violated in 1833.-(Hear.) His being admitted into a third
Hon. Friend agreed to this, and that reduced the question to a working longer, with a greeatethrecyomdmimanindisohfedthethreawinmeanat&erinair
small compass ; because the question then was, whether the -( Hear, hear)-lesssuepnpos
t hpeeno people?-(Loud.
e promote?- -( . ot uh de
-ed the power of the individual to earn.
the measure of 1833 was useful or not ; it was well known it employment and
-rtsdidof he
ee
was so, and now the Right Hon. Baronet had stated that the his subsistencetbyohronsoeustiaiindeuosmtrfyo
Government were prepared to go still farther, and put an end moral character_
hear.) He admitted the general principle, that their olittete
to the general principle. In this country the Government cheers.) He had no doubt about their intentions.-(llear.
had been conducted for a long series of years, much upon thts
ought not to be to increase wealth, but to improve the mjeral'
system. He had acted almost entirely upon the principle thatin.
character of the people ; but if he was able to show theses by.
, it was safe to trust to the unaided and undirected efforts of
thought
their unwise legislation-by supplying the place of p t 1
authority-(Cheers)-by forcing morality on the people.-"eu lain
! dividuals. But looking at the actual state of society, he
the I
policy on p
they should see the result of this mistakene
roinnlgy they were running the-
thheomweodralcharacte of the people.
l the ma- hatard of defeating their own objects, and of diminishing '
of the Government. There were around them alarming proofs
physicallaw-(L cooumdfcnhrteserasn)d-inhwe
that something more was required. Hheedreid not blame
equal
evils
nufacturing classes particularly.
much There
also in the condition of The Noble Lord opposite said the •
time was came for inter-
theamong other classes. There was
classes which required the ference.-( Hear ,hear.) The Noble Lord seemed to bim to be-
, great masses of the agriculturalamong
them the danger was more desirous of making a justification•
of his vote in favour
aetive attention of the House. Butn
to which he need net then of the ten hours' clause
not se pressing ; for various resaosoprsessing
in these districts as interference which than of establishing the principle of:
as one ought to govern the legislation of
advert, the danger was not .
But when he looked
among the manufacturing population. at the country.-( Hear, hear.) He agreed with the Noble Lord,
of population, gathered-he might say in the
these immense masses
preparations for
without any adequate their tary amusements of the people, but when the Noble Lorseeaien
heaped-. together, . _
and the utter absence of any re -
or moral welfare,
trade,, 'iii OU t
physical hen he learned the extent
Wiens for securing them-when
d f h of the be better if, instead of dealing in generalities-(Hear, Inseria
abuses which prevailed there, an ot e wretchedness that -and coming down full of them, after reading am Sceith—
existed, be thought it would have been well, had Parliament (Cheers and laughter)-he told them in what particular modes'
earlier interfered, even at the expense of something of the pro. this was to be effected.-( Hear, hear. )
ductive power of the country-even at the expense of some Lord HOWICK-I would increase the sphere of employ-
sacrifice of its wealth-and have taken some measures to check ment.-(Cheers.)
the vast increase of population in particular districts, which were Sir R. PEEL-But the Noble Lord said more. •He "ie
without a corresponding extension of machinery, or regulations he rejoiced in the limitation of the hours of labour in factories,
for insuring decency, morality, or the blessings of education.- because he said it must then be; extended further. He said.
(Hear, hear.) He had heard it stated by the most strenuous , that the masters ought not to be allowed to make money out .
advocates of restriction, that it would have been well if ta n lof•dofthe land
. area- the in ustry
would therefore compel,
merit had, at the commencementof the The Noble Lord wouldl
manufacturing system, them to work their labourers less.
prohibited women and children from Hear, hear )-to pre-
worki in manufactories introduce this into every employment-( ar, )7 .
at all. He did not share that o• ' On the he mote, he said, the morals of the people. The' principles
pinion.
thought that the labour of women and children was an the Noble Lord held would lead
to a compieisory attendance a
advantage, if its abuses were prevented. The Right lion. Church.-( Loud cheers.) The docket:ire of the Noble Lord!
Baronet had concurred in that opinion. It was absolutely ne- would lead to an inquisition in evert, employment throughritt
cessary that they should do something to restrain the competi- the country.-( Hear, , hear and -cheers.) The principle that
ra
tion of labour, which was driving females and young persons to shey were not to content thee selves with the accumulation of
an amount of work totally inconsistent with the due discharge wealth, but were to watch • over the morals of the people would
former t• th
justify any former prott,osition of Imes- ere wae ue
of their domestic duties. He believed it was absolutely neces-
would not be justified by such& principle.-(" Hear,
sary that they should so act. If they did not so prevent it, he law which , r
' from Le Howick.) Hear ! hear !-(Cheers,) He
feared that at no distant day some frightful catastrophe would hear,' ,d
wanted to kr' how they were to carry out such a•principle as
occur, and he trusted they should no longer go on in a course .ow
of passive helplessness. The Government must take the lead that pre,posed into every trade.-(Hear, hear, and &NIS.)
in this matter. It was a duty incumbent on them ; it being That. which constitutes the morality of the people was their
the duty of Parliament to point out the necessity. The other f':eling of independence-(Hear, hear)-their sense of honoJor
evening, when the Right Hon. Baronet the First Lord of the --(Hear, bear)-their hatred of oppression.-( Hear, hear. P •
Treasury argued ?gains • t the motion of his Noble Friend, thett, This had grown up with perfect independence and freedom of
it would be impossible to apply this principle in consequente of action, and if they attempted to substitute legislative enactments
the immense number of trades in which labour would require for that freedom of action, it would change the whole character
interference, he confessed that so far from this being an objet- of the people.-(Hear, hear.) There was one point with regard.,
tion it only confirmed him in the opinion that such interference to which he thought they might interfere with parental autho-
was necessary. He therefore rejoiced that this discussion had rity-that was the case of education.-(Hear, hear.) He'
taken place, as it brought forward more prominently the abso- thought they would be justified in interfering at least with,
lute necessity of looking into the condition of the people.- the instruction of children employed in factories-
( Cheers.) He trusted that this Bill was but the beginning of He thought they were entitled to give the elements
a wiser, a bolder, and more manly course of pollee; than they of instruction to children employed in factorieh and that be-