The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-23 00:00:00

positive ditty 'of the Legislature to interfere; and
they would be neglecting their duty if they did not.
Now, what was the state of things in Lancashire?
What did Mr. Horner say? Why he said that between
twenty and thirty young men were employed as piecers,
at wages from Bs. to 9s. a week, while in the same mill
there were girls of eighteen years of age employed at
11 s. and 12s. a week.—(Hear, liter.) The Noble Lord
had shown that more girls wera employed than male
adults, and it was therefore clear that they would have
a large portion of the adult population to fall back upon.
He did not know what the Hon. Gentleman opposite
meant when he asked whether this was to be a Ten
Hours' Bill, and then went on to argue that they could
increase the labour of the children in the same propor-
tion that they diminished that of the men. A great
many charges had been brought against. the supporters
of the Noble Lord's motion, but, for Heaven's sake, let
them only deal with those charges which could
be fairly brought against them. He perfectly admitted
that the argument used on the other side was perfectly
sound that humanity should give way to the commercial
and financial interest of the country. Of course it stood
to reason that it would be unwise to shorten the hours of
labour with the certainty of depriving the operative po-
pulation of employment altogether. Now, how did the
lion. Gentlemen opposite show that this proposition
would have that effect? In the first place they made it
out by a great many very vague appeals to their fears.
They said they were embarking in a new course—it was
very dangerous, they said; but they gave no other reason
for their opposition to the proposition. He (Mr. Buller)
had always found that such alarms as these were started
when the interests of certain parties were affected. It
had always been said when any particular change
was going to be made, that if another feather were to
be placed on the particular branch of trade which was
to be affected, it would be broken down. He recollected
that this was said at the time of the inquiries into the
condition of the slaves.—(Cheers.) They were always
told that a perfect paradise existed in the West Indies.
He (Mr. Buller) was perfectly ready to yield in opinion
to practical men, and to her Majesty's Government, upon
whom great responsibility was thrown. It was, however,
upon one condition, which was, that they should give up
all shaking of the head, and come down with a plain ar-
gument upon the subject. What was the argument usel
by the Right Hon. Baronet, in terrorem, as it were, for
the purpose of scaring the supporters of the Noble Lord?
The Right Hon. Baronet said " How far will you go,
if you interfere with the factories—what will you do
with the cotton manufactories and others?" Now, he
(Mr. Buller) would answer the Right Hon. Baronet.
He would, first of all, tell him what he would do with
the principle. He would try it in every instance.—
(Cheers.) He would carry the principle of interference
just to that point where it was impossible to go further.
—(Cheers and laughter.) Some of his friends laughed at
him. Should he state the proposition in converse. He
should not go further than the point to go beyond-
which would not benefit the.operatives. Why, after all,
the Government did this themselves.—(Hear, hear.)
They limited their interference to twelve hours in the
factories.— (Hear, hear.) Now, with regard to the in-
stance the Right Hon. Baronet had mentioned of the
screw-makers. He (Mr. Buller) did not know the par-
ticular circumstances of that trade ; and he could not, of
course, pledge himself without inquiring into them; but
he would say that he saw no earthly reason why, if they
legislated for the factories, they should not legislate for
them also. The Right Hon. Baronet mentioned the
case of domestic servants. Now, in the first place, he
(Mr. Buller) did not believe ' that that was a
class that was very much over-worked.—(Hear.)
He did not know how Honourable Gentlemen opposite
used their servants, but he did not think that generally
they were very much overworked.—(Laughter.) But,
even supposing that they were, no arrangement could
be made with respect to them, for any interference in
'uch a case would do more harm than good. Then there
was another class—that of the agricultural labourers.
He did not think that, if they took the whole mass of
the agricultural labourers of the country, they would
complain of being overworked. Although they were
badly treated in other respects, yet they did not com-
plain of overwork. The Right Hon. Baronet mentioned
the harvest, and he said they worked a great many
hours during the harvest. Why, who would complain
of overwork in the factories if it were confined to three
weeks, and if the custom of the country required it ?
lie did not think that the arguments of the Right Hon.
Baronet ought to scare them from their purpose.—
(Cheers.) One of the wisest men in the world once
remarked, " The slothful man said there is a lion in the
street." Now he (Mr. Buller) must say, that in that
question there had been most extraordinary lions.—
(Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet said,
for " God sake do not go that way, or the lion will be
sure to be at you."—(Laughter.) He would now glom,
at the arguments of the two Right Hon. Gentlemen, the
Secretary for the Home Department and the First Lord
of the Treasury. Now he thought he could set the two
Right Hon. Gentlemen by the ears. It was impossible
that the arguments used by each could stand together.
One Right Hon. Gentleman said, " Don't interfere in
this matter—it is our export trade, and the foreigner
is competing with you." He (Mr:Buller) hoped this
would be recellected in the debate on the corn-laws.
The Right Hon. Baronet dreaded the competition with
the foreigner. " The foreigner," he said, will compete
with you, for you will have to raise your prices." The
other Right Hon. Gentleman referred to Mr. Horner,
and proved that nothing of the kind would happen, as
the price depended on the foreign market, mil therefore
the prices would be, kept low, to preseve the foreign
market. Let him (Mr. Buller) take first the argument
of the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Trea-
sury. His argument was the most formidable, after all.
They could not over-state the importance of the export
trade. The Right Hon. Baronet dreaded the increase
of prices. What was that increase to be ? Some
calculation might be made. Surely those who
apprehended all this danger, could shadow, to
themselves the amount of the increase. ,Mr.
Kenworthy, a gentleman himself connected largely
with the manufacturing interests, had made a calculation
to show the sum which was expended in the manufac-
ture of a yard of cloth. It appeared that this sum was
threepence per yard at present. Now, a common rule-of-
three sum would prove that, by a limitation of labourto
nine hours, instead of its present duration, there would
be a loss of only seven-sixteenths of a penny; and if to a
Ten Hours' Bill, it would be five• sixteenths.—(Hear, hear,
and cheers.) Yet the Right Hon. Baronet came forward,
and said this Bill would be most ruinous to the manu-
facturers, and that, in consequence of the cotton- yarn
trade of this country, they would be unable to compete
with foreigners. He would now refer to a simple
financial fact in connection with taxation, and he re-
gretted to see that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had
not announced in his last budget that thero was any in-
tention of altering this duty—he alluded to the duty on
raw cotton—(Loud cheers)—that raw material of which
those manufactures were composed. This duty was
5. 16ths of a penny; so that they who railed against this
measure, and said it would ruin the manufacturers of
this country, had the remedy in their own hands without
injury to any particular ;interest, by reducing it 2-16ths
of a penny—(Cheers)--or to reduce it altogether.—
(Renewed cheering.) If they thought that this tended
to injure the manufacturers, her Majesty's Government
had the power of applying the acquired remedy. The
Right Hon. Baronet, he thought, was much mistaken in
saying that all the injury would fall upon the operatives,
and he made this assertion from premises drawn from
statements in Mr. Horner's work. He (Mr. C. Buller)
could not at all understand the arguments of the Right
Hon. Baronet. The Hon. Gentleman then read the ex-
tract alluded to, and proceeded to say that the change
made in the amount of wages would be only a diminution
of one-tenth •, but the same amount of cotton would be
manufactured as before, for it would not be that the
quantity of work to be performed would be reduced, but
that a greater number of hands would be employed ;
and the only inference which he could draw from that
passage from the work of Mr. Horner was, that there
would be a reduction in the amount of labourers' wages
of about 301. in every 400/. now expended. Honourable
Members on the Opposition side of the House had been
taunted with endeavouring to prove that a low rate of
wages would increase domestic comforts and happiness ;
now, in reply to this taunt, he would ask, did the com-
forts of' the people bear a proportion to the amount of
the weekly income? He had seen much of the country,
and he would beg to call the attention of the House to
the state of the population in the collieries. Now, in
these localities, although the men receive very high
wages,. yet, surely, no person could say that domestic
comfort was the result of this ? He saw numbers of the
labourers, who had not half the wages of the colliers,
who were much more comfortable ; and he thought,even
were it to lessen—which he denied—the wages of the ope-
ratives, yet the increase of domestic comfort consequent
upon the women having more time to devote to their
household duties would be more than an equivalent for
any loss of wages which might possibly accrue from
this measure. The argnment he must grapple with
was one that had frequently been thrown out, had been
frequently used, had been circulated among the gentle-
men opposite with some assiduity, and probably with
some success. It • was said that the corn-laws were
mixed up with this question.—(Loud cheers.) It was
said, if we venture to do this—if we thus interfere with
manufactures—if we lay these fresh restraints on them,
how will a paternal Government be able to resist the
demand of the people for food?—(Cheers.) How shall
we next year stand by the sliding scale ?—(Cheers.),
The members of the League, it is said, are cunning
men ; the Bill is doing the work of the League.—
(Cheers and laughter.) He could not say there
was not something in that.—(Cheers.) It was not
his business to defend the corn-laws—(Cheers)---
nor should he do so ; but he told them, after all that he
had mentioned a much simpler remedy. There was no
protective duty on raw cotton.—(Cheers.) There were
no Anti-League leagues with respect to that article.—
(Cheers and laughter.) But, suppose the House
rescinded its vote, the public would know who
voted—(Loud cheers)-the public would know who
changed their votes—(Cheers)—the public would know
who stayed away—(Loud cheers and laughter)—the
public would know where " the whip" had been ap-
plied—(Cheers)—as well as they would know those who
had changed, those who were absent, and those who were
suddenly present.--(Cheers and laughter.) Look how
the decision of. Monday night had been received ;
then let the friends of the corn-laws tell him,
those who sacrificed every consideration of policy to the
rn-law, if intelligent people reconcile
men
maintaining of those laws—let them tell him, what the
masses of operatives from whose lips they would dash
the cup of hope—what the intelligent and thinking
classes, the mass of whom believed that humanity and
in policytheiru much
h conduct
mwento r more fatal
together—how
fatwithal their opinion ? Would it not be
tthe
co could these s
o should see that it was for, the maintenance of these laws
the country gentlemen were ready to sacrifice the edu-
cation, the morality, the social relations, and the phy-
sical well-being of the people of
England ? Let
them tell him what could be the feelings
of the operatives when carrying on their la-
bour for those two other hours of the day,