The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-03 00:00:00

had been violated, and deprecating such proceedings. '
The letter concluded with these words—" The thoughts
of a citizen ought to be as free as his person."—(Hear,
hear, from the Opposition.) He hoped it would not be
said that, in England, at that period, they were not able
to realise the wishes of a :Minister of France in 1815.
Under an established and regular Government he believed
they were not reduced to the fatal necessity of employ-
ing so degrading a means of securing the public safety.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he was anxious to take
that opportunity of making some explanation to the
House on a point which involved his own personal cha-
racter. It had been asserted that, in consolidating the
Post-office Acts in 1837, the late Government gave a
fresh sanction to the power under discussion, and actu-
ally pushed that power beyond its previous extent. Now,
he begged to state distinctly, that if that were the effect
of the Consolidation Act, he alone was responsible for
it. It was suggested to him, as a member of the Post-
office Commission, that great iuconvenience arose from
the Post-office Act being spread over 130 separate en-
actments. That suggestion was made by the Hon.
Member for Greenock ; and he complied with it, on the con-
dition that the Act should simply be a Consolidation Act,
and that the tnerits of the question should not be discussed.
His Hon. Friend the Member for Greenock in particular
had kept most sacredly that bargain, he did not raise
any of the questions he had threatened to do; he had
allowed him (Mr. Labouchere) to proceed with the con-
solidation ; that was an act of consolidation, and that
only ; there was no flesh power given, nor was it in-
tended, the object was to leave the Act where it was.
The only alteration he had proposed in the Act was to
take away the punishment of death in cases in Ireland,
where it had been taken away in England. He felt no
doubt by the consolidation that had taken place they
had not made the law more stringent, but if it was so he,
and he alone, was responsible fur it. He had endea-
voured to discharge his duty to the best of his abilities,
and if he had failed be was to blame. With respect to
the question before the House he rejoiced at the course
taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the
Home Department ; he was glad that the whole ques
tion would be looked into, and he was sure his Noble
Friend the Member for the City of London would not
shrink from having his conduct inquired into when he
was in the Home-office. He (Mr. Labouchere) could not
think there was any real public object gained by opening
letters, in the manner and for the purposes they had
hitherto been. He could not see any State necessity for
exercising the power in that sweeping way in which it
was exercised by Mr. Fox, in 1787, when he opened all
the letters to the ambassadors from foreign countries; but
this he could readily conceive, that there might be occa-
sions when it was necessary to adopt such a course—
such, for instance, as a conspiracy against the life of the
Queen. The Hon. Gentleman who had spoke last had
raised an objection to the Committee being a secret one.
Now, he could not see any objection to that. lie could
not see any difference between a Secret Committee and
one with closed doors, except that the Secret Committee
might exclude Members of that House, and for his own
part he could not see why Members should claim a pri-
vilege which they refused to the public. As to the
names of the Committee he hoped the Right Hon.
Baronet would adopt the usual course. He was glad at
the course the Government had pursued, and he thought
if• they had at once stated their views and reasons for
the course they had taken, instead of refusing to do so,
public anxiety would not have been so excited as it had
been, and the only way to allay that anxiety was to
have a strict and searching inquiry into the whole
matter.
Sir R. PEEL cordially and personally shared in the
satisfaction expressed by Hon. Members that there would
be an opportunity given of obtaining full information on
the subject of the invidious power of opening letters.
He rejoiced in it, because these acts were not the acts
of an individual member of the Government, but of the
Government itself.—(Hear. bear.) It was not right that
those on whom the law placed the performance of a cer-
tain duty should bear the obloquy of it. The great
object for which the Committee was to be appointed was
to obtain full and complete information as to the usages
and circumstances under which the authority had been
exercised, and there would proceed from the Committee
an opinion as to whether or no, in the case of a particu-
lar Administration, the power had been perverted from
the course it was intended to pursue ; whether it had
been used for the promotion of party interests or private
curiosity, or for the indulgence of private malignity, or
for the great purpose for which it had been given, viz.,
the maintenance of the public interest. That was the
great object the Government had in view in proposing this
Committee. They had left out lawyers purposely in
order that there might not be any squabbling as to
what the law was. Suppose they had proposed to ap-
point the Hon. Member for Worcester, and the Hon.
Member for Exeter, on the Committee, and they had
disagreed, in what situation would they be placed? The
law was not the question the people wanted to be
satisfied upon what they wanted to know was, why
the Government had pursued the course it had done,
and whether they had pursued it properly. lie thought
the gentlemen they had named to form the Committee
had intelligence enough to come to a right conclusion
without the aid of the Hon. Members for Worcester and
Exeter. He hoped, therefore, the House would not call
upon the Government to appoint lawyers on the Com-
mittee. As to Mr. Home Drummond, it had never
occurred to him that he was so acute a lawyer; they
had named him out of respect for his character; and.
if it was supposed that any advantage would accrue to
the Government from his appointment, they would forego
it, and appoint another lion. Member in his room.
Objections had been made to the Committee being a
secret one; it was made so in order that persons who
had held high stations might more fully detail what had.
been done. The Committee, having heard the statements
of facts would have a full opportunity of stating whether
the statements were satisfactory or not, without disclos-
ing names ; if they wanted to get at the real state of the
facts as to the motives of the Government, they would
only accomplish it by having ,a Secret Committee, that
was the only way in which they could get at the whole
truth. He trusted that the House would think there was
such manifest justice in the appointment of the Com-
mittee that they would at once agree to it. Every one
of the five Members the Government had chosen had
given their votes against them on the last occasion the
question was brought forward. He hoped the House
would allow the Government to substitute some other
name for Mr. Home Drummond, and would permit the
Committee to be appointed that night in order that they
might not be involved to-morrow in an invidious discus-
sion as to who should be members of the Committee.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL agreed so entirely in the
course taken by the Secretary of State for the Home
Department, that he should not have considered it ne-
cessary to say a word to the House, had it not been for
some allusion the Right Hon. Baronet made in his
speech on laying grounds for the appointment of the
Committee. The Right Hon. Gentlemen had referred to
what he had stated on a previous night ; he had come
down to the House on that occasion thinking he should
vote with the Right Hon. Gentleman, but he found he
could not do so. There was one special allegation made
by the Hon. Member for Finsbury when he *ought
forward his motion with respect to the letters of Mr.
blazzini and Captain Stolzmann—he said that those
letters had been opened, not for the purpose
of finding out a public enemy, but for the pur-
pose of aiding a foreign country against some of their
discontented subjects, who had taken refuge in this
country. Now he (Lord J. Russell) did not consider that
a legitimate exercise of the power. He had given the
Right Hon. Baronet credit fur having properly exercised
the power he possessed, although he had refused to give
any explanation to this House of his reasons for doing so.
He thought the Right Hon. Gentleman's refusal to give
any explanation was, as far as the suspicions of the pub-
lic were concerned, most unfortunate. But he (Lord J.
Russell) could not lament the course he had taken on
that occasion. After the refusal to give any explana-
tion, the suspicions of the public could not fail to be
awakened ; the same inflammatory statements would
have been made, the same excitement would have existed
in the public mind ; and even then, according to the
Right Hon. Gentleman, he would not have granted any
inquiry. But as the members of the late Government had
taken the course they had done, the Right Hon. Gentleman
now thought it necessary to appoint a Committee on the
subject.— (Hear, hear.) He thought a very good con-
sequence had resulted.—(Hear, hear.) He should sup-
port his Hon. Friend, the Member for Finsbury, think-
ing it quite fair that, as the Right Hon. Gentleman's
conduct was attacked, the conduct of his predecessors
ought to be inquired into also by means of a Committee,
But he entirely agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman
in the reasons he bad stated why this Committee should
be a secret one ; by that means, its purpose would be
much better answered, the inquiry would be more strict,
and the Members would be more able to make up their
minds on‘the subject, than if it was made an open Com-
mittee, and its evidence canvassed day by day. For his
own part, lie was ready to agree to any selection of
names for that Committee which the Right Hon. Gentle-
man might propose, and he could see no objection to
• those he had chosen. He thought it much better that
they should now close this part of the discussion, and
proceed at once to appoint the Committee. lie was
ready to give, himself, any evidence before that Com-
mittee that he was able to give, though there were many
others who could state better than he could, the manner
nts,
in which the power had been exercised. At alleeve
let the whole subject be investigated, and, if th
was to be retained, let the terms of the law be power
clearer; and, on the contrary, if it should appear that the
power was not necessary fur any public interest, let it be
discontinued.
Mr. WAKLEY was quite sure that the public would
not be satisfied with the reasons either of the Right
Hon. Gentleman or of the Noble Lord (J. Russell) for
making it a Secret Committee, and he must say it ap-
peared to him a most extraordinary mode of satisfying
public curiosity on the subject.—(llear, hear.) Did the
Members of her Majesty's Government think they mono-
polised all the curiosity of the world ?—(Laughter.)
The Government had the power of looking into people's
letters, but the people wanted to know to what extent it
had been done, and why it had been done ? The public
bad expressed much surprise and indignation at the
course that had been pursued ; but the Right Honourable
Secretary at first said boldly, " I won't tell you what has
been done. I feel it consistent with my public duty to
be silent. You shan't know any thing about it." But
the public were still very anxious, and the press, he
thought, in contradiction to his Hon. and Learned Friend
(Mr. Roebuck) had very laudably, and in a very excel-
lent spirit, excited the feeling that then existed through-
out En that had so far
gland—(Cheers)—a feeling
brought the Right llon. Gentleman to account that ho
now consented to some inquiry, and it was to the press
they were indebted for that inquiry.—(Loud
cheers.) The public said give us investiga-
tion, and it was a deference to public opinion
which the Right lion. Baronet stated as his reason for
granting the inquiry. lie stated that public feeling had
been so excited on the subject, that he felt it his duty as
a Minister of State, to consent to the investigation.
Yes ; but how were the public to be satisfied, by being
told that all the secret was to be confined, to the keeping