The Sun.
London, England, 1817-02-08 00:00:00

ppm 3 w. 1.• 8,0',10,0001.-; the .4 the kite•
rem' of 'he 1,900;0001. to which
I,:i'4 to he .h.ll, for the charges of fife Sinking'
42.230 iiool , tvhirh made the whole amount
e,lrtied to the charge of the ,Un-
foodell` Dent ahotit 12,06,0001. To nett this,
there :.,hits) hl. including VV;iyi and
111,,r1s for rl,ii branch, about 14,180,0001. which
'ivotld leave a sinpltis i,f übotit 1,480,0001. beyond
the S'tionl);.
;40.11,r,r, 4;0,1 a I've words.
To Ft (VI •I WO 11001 I 11,fflourilble Nretillivro
yt the liasclitMtlati ralll, 115
to the ',inking Fund, he wislied.it to'he di/dint:Hy
owlet stood, 'that not one penny should he liken
from i, for the solidi(' service or tiny other pin.-
pose, eooll'iry to Ole Statiiit-, relating to it. )1'
('I '.I to he regularly Illauktged fly the
Commissioners ippointed for that purpose, unit
ar.r.ttroling. to regolation, the :tuts of Va:liiiment
and in It other Manner tvlileVer. \Vitt tlier the
revving. should prove deficient or not, it etrtairdy
011011 not to he ble.reaSed by tiny encroachment
01101) the Sinking, rm.',
Mr. figAtxns.iiil, that with retpect to ;the too-
finn of the Noble Lord, to the first :part of it he
form(' no faith as to Illilt "part of it which
:rent 19,teeitten a seat it, the Committee,
inot decidedly disapproved (It it, bee:Huse lit'
thought th, y vie not a cllss of nien.who could
lie tidy employed in executing the duty went Hoed
In the secotol pArt of the motion of the ,N,lde
Lot!' Considrting.the duty which theConotnittee
oto;ht felt it 11.3 illity 1(1 0i)1111Se
the .ecolid neat of the motion of the Noble Lo.rd,
inStelid or it to toov,, tll4l Com-
' Ink tee be app,,itited to inquire into what increase
or dintinntion had taken pidce on the sal tries rit
rs since 17!18, and to report On the
bt.4( lllellsures fit' the reduction of them."
lie cint'.s.tion being put, I.llr, titers disapproved
Of in ()thee to hak'e. Seats ill the
4 COPploiticv.
14411d1 ('‘.l'l,4:4ry;ll wished to call the at trtition
'of the lion,. to Ole nature of the 4tnenthuent
tome plopo,ed hy fte Hon. 'Member Irati(l).
72y'rt moving the list elanse of the motion, it
.would then be merely a motion for it Committee
to inquire into the State of the Income 111111 Bk-
irnilittoe a the C.:unity, that virt of it (cer.
utility the most important), which instructed the
Committee to inquire into what retlNCtions
he woold Itc entirely removed. It slip, ,it
vd to hint ILO nothing could bc more ahsto
,than for the [loose to ttgrre to such an amend
anent.

.141 r. liitiuc;ll,Sta could not help observing, that
was really deired that the. Committee should
carry On the ioquiry• in a workmanlike manner,
he did Out bUt• how the tonendinent could he ob.
ject ell to, The Hon. at:d Learned, Gent !email
then wen! no to draw a pierpre of what would he
the eounnet of itConimittee to which men in (Ace
wets admitivil, ;Hid maintained theft they would
have the.a.,evioniney. lie then vindicated the
Coin mit tce of I lif/G from what bad heen -said
agaiost it by Lord Castlereagh, and pve
set:omit of, its Turret:tin/les, 'lle took a des-
ptittilitig view of the state of the resources of
the country, with a view toiniprvss the necessity
Of retrvitt,hment. lie could not but express his
slneete gratification at th • gracious commit:ilea-
' Aims wiiich
,had been made by the Noble Lotil
from the lilostrions Individual at the head of the
Government. Thar, emanninkation, as far as it
wear, as to the mintier as wed as the' substance,
was of•• a pithil.! to,give the grea•etit satistaetion.--
(Fluar !)—He also gave credit to the sacrifice of
_part of their emoluments whirl] seemed to be in-
'chile(' by Molislers, and hoped that the example
would be billowed to the lowest ()direr of the
Cluten, It was by such !lordlier that pnblie men
and men in office ought to distingni4ll them.
selves, and not, by talking ahout dignity and
splendour, and monart by, and be koew tintwliat
eke. No twin telt more than himself. the im•
purtance of the Monarchical part of our Coursti-
union,' because in his conicienee he Inlieved that
it was the only :form of Government consistent
With Civil liberty,—(lle,ir!)—But it was because
)celoved the Monarchy that he reeommended, as
s'best safeguard, to plam its roots in the hearts
'or the people, Instead of .spending money on
itandy and splendid pageants, which might be
very proper during prosperous pint flourishing
times, the highest class ought to slit w a sympathy
,with the lowest. Not bitig was, in his opinion,
so graceful as Toverty in public men, And he
would say, that tLi Monarchy of Great Britain
Tras planting its affections firmly in the hoots of
the lumple, if outward and useless spkinlotir was
sacrificed, and a rigid and self-denying economy
practised.
Mr. CANNtNe.----Althougli he confessed he was
not sanguine enough to expect that any 1)00-
bgh rout forw,ril this night by his obit
Friend, 'would meet with trylro hiition from every
part of the I louse, yet he certainly was surprised
tilt the degree of imputation implied by Ili; vole
.flow put from the Chair. Considering that the
vote wiiich the, noose was called upon to,give by
bis Noble Friend did omit call for its irrevocable
oppEohltion of the melisures of Government, he
Lad thought that at least the prima facie ex posi.
Gin would h,ive been satisinetory. In his own
mind there w,t:; :I doubt whether Nowt: of the es.
thfaiShhielltS 1101 not already been 'cut down us
,low as ssu adViieable, eohNioehtly with our
tintnti sate Ly. ‘Vhaterer !night he thought by
some 'Aleinheri, he spoke this advised!), and Opon
;nature rutieetion, Prow the slittelllettiS
liad been Ironic by his Noble Friend, it had beett
seen that tic reductions proposed Inought the
expenditure or the contitry ktverby 6000001.
the /Loom: .ble and Le4rorti Clentlentan
bad anticip,octi it (Amid lie brotight. After
tins, though haul not eitpecied that credit
would he given to his Miijesty's Nlinilters (or
flit it exc rtions. yet lie hdd thought it pots,sihie they
might esespe censure. The great complaints
11,(1 lohodeil on
the great co,thlistourtits but
alter the I,L•Jo,t!olii which had been atillolll,eo,
thothili be Ohl ,lot hay they (night not herealter
aeraped and p,ifull.dowii more. lie would ask
if any twin yolk! hayki3O (..:imitit tit ion of the coun-
try seas iu hatiger how rho military there were
any danger at all, it ;403 of a cillioacter directly

ferettce's of opiition as (p the persoos 'proper tO be
voted on the he svostlil ask if the
House were prepared •tis say that that class of olli.
Cid men who had front ill time assisted in its de-
liberatious, ought now to lee exelmled Till!, if
done, would be to change the Coustitutioe, hot
not to make it more favourable to the lifter-
ties of' the prtitple. Ile ,eoll3itlered the course
taken by the opposite side of the House, to hold
tip the Civil Establishment in the most ievidious
fight, and as the rause of the public lotrlens, It
lie unfair. Ile held it to ben question that might
be 'signed, whether the influence of the Crown
hail !welt ittereased or not ; lie tor one was sittis-
lied that it had ticen intioitely diminished. It had
been progressively diinitoshed it; point of actual
eitomeration, Bud was flow far troth belie.; what
it was iu the very best deys of the coustitto het—
ill those days when theWhiso were in power—the
krifigs who had passed the Septennial Act, in
those times •when the liberties of the people were
in the IWO'S of those saviours of the country. Ile,
for one, should be happy to meet the ytystjoo that
Might he laisell on this subject ; but whether he
was right or wrong iu the idea he had formed of
the pieseut billtience the
—mown, 1.3
Willi what it hail fins:telly been, the Holt. Geo-
Ileums!) histi no right to as,itole that it Was (let:tiled
th 41 it hail increased, and tois was the basis ot the
Committee. The reductions which might. lie
nook ill the Citil Departments, windif not have
the effect of relivehig the people trout their bur-
delis ; hot he eilm,tted it would he of importaece
from the effect it might be expected to litre on
public opinion. l'lte sacrifices made On the part
at the Illustrious Personage nt ,the heat) of the
Slate, mod those by itioch they were about:to he'
followed, were, iii this ;milli of view, important,
front the sympathy. thus evinced in the distresses
of the people, and not from the sum which they
would be the inerins of saving to the Conoco,. Ilia,
the milliner in which these volinitary sarrifites
haul-been greeted by the Learned Gentleman, who,
not cootent with them, had seized this opporta-
nit y to demand outer voluntary sacrifices,. was
not very eueottraging to those who were disposed
to take such a course. it was not the way in
which he (\lr. Canning) would have received such
climiumticatiou, nor did he think it woidd be
found 1111 We advitotageous than it WaS
If the Committee even to intpitre into the in-
crease or diminution of the influence of the Crown,
he admitted the objection of the Honourable
Getttlentatt to so many official persons haying
seats in it would not he ill hounded. But the
question betore the 'loose to-night was not
on the influence of the Crown, hut on the ap-
pointment of to Committee to inquire if greater
economy Could not be intioductil into • the
venal Depertments of the State ; and those
(Miele! men who were se touch objected to, he
held to he useful, if tun ttecessary iugredietos
in such an inquit it Wall neces-
sary to inquire what reductiou could, he made
in Civil its Well as Nlilitaty'Offices, as a part
of the national expenditure ; hut it was mit
drought Algid so to ifistinonsh the tone trom
the other, that the inquiry. conld not %tiff, pro.
iniety he carried by a Committe eimstittited
in the some manner as that (louse, which dele-
gated its powers to the Committee, Ile denied
that the appointment of,the Committee proposed,
Would have the effect of deterring the House front
proceeding as it would otherwise do with respect
to alleged abuses in certain quarters. That this
was not to be feared, might be seen from a refer-
ence to the Order Book., Ile could see no reason
%illy the Gontmittee now to be appointed should
no: be formed as such Committees It td always
been. in the names proposed (his own was 1101
a tilting them) he could' discover nothing dint
ought to excite jealousy. Kit should hereafter lie
foetid that the,Committee tlid not keep pace with
the expectations of•the House in their proceed-
ings, then a motion could lie made Is) the Hon,
Gentlematt on the subject ; and it lie could get
the [rouse to agree with him. those topics which
he wished now to separate in the itoptiry could
then he pot in a separate course of extouitettion.
The Hoe. Geo: (nintleman had.himsell said there
was a shorter stay of proceeding in such a ease,
by which this might be effected ; so 'that it lutist
be' seen it was not true that the Cblntnittee would
bike the power of hiterfereuce in the inquiry otft
of the hands of the House, or that they would be
unable to stimulate it, or to set it tight in any
instance where this should be lleCtSaty, Within
twelve hours lifter the error which might attract
their attention should have occurred.
Mr. IVieueeeonca considered the sacrifices
which had been Millie; in a certain quarter,
to be of great importance from the example thus
offorded, Of the Committee lie had remerked the
Noble Lord hail said its duration Would not he
limited to one year; it might cootinue to xit two,
or even three years. lithe inquiry might thus be
protracted, a dissolution of Pat 114Itlent tv mild pos-
sibly occur before its labours could be brought to
a. close,—(Hear, hear I)—He must conle,b that
if poly the It:twill of time were coosidereil which
its proceedings might oecepy, that of itself would.
in his mind, constitute n strong objection to the
course which it Was now proposed to take. By o
!untold effort on both sides, he hoped the Com-
mittee would be so constituted that their proceed-
ings would he received without prejudice,' and
trented with appropriate liberality, • • .
Mr, V. FerzGEtt un, in reply to ut elltielon of
Mr. 'Brand, wits riot sorry to have an opportunity
of saying;, that whatever were the principles on
which lie hail given up office, those whit knew
him best, knew that he had no reitSoll to be
toilsome(' of them. Neithet the Hon. Getttlemitit
nor any of his friends could have a right. to say
they had retired moredisiOtereStedly than be (Mr.
Fitzgerald) bad done.
'Sir AeesNo thought the inquiry could not
he satisfactorily comiticted withottt,the assistance
of official met), but et the value Ow he consi-
doeil the presence of Cileotletueit whose'hebits of
oppositioit would lead them to inquire ioto some
thipet, noire minotely than others, to be iihsolot
e.
ly. iteee.isary. Ile shriek', it, the first instance,
vote for the proposition of the Noble Lord, told
till ettvttrils propose fo diminish the tninitier of Of-
ficial men named to be on the Commit tee.
Lord Idsii,ii;eetis thought the concesshins which
had that night been announced, would be Very

nOits

, .
~
grateful eta the per.nle. rte. thAnght 'the nnmVer
of officio) persons proposed to be On the Com-
mittee would be well rtbired, not that he sus-
pected the persons named of being actualedsby any
improper feeling, hot because. he thought the pub-
lic might view tlo: inquiry with stopicion if they
were retained. fie avas io hopes -the
.distless of
the country was begiuoing to,subside,,as one Of
its enoseS, I lie eircuuistanee of llie foreign markets
being overstocked, was in part removed. lie
should in the first instance vote for the-Committee
of the Noble Lortl ; but if any complaiot shOold
be toady of obstructions lseing thrown in the way
of the iitquiry by thole coulleeteit with the
rem went , he slimdd feel it his duty to support any
motion that might he made tii correct t he evil.
Air, PoN.oNsy set forth :the advantages which
would result Irmo haviug, two Committees in-
stead of nue. What been stated by the
Noble •Lord.io the. cpurse of the evening, had
afforded him great satisfaction. The eeono.
ulie4l arrangements annonnced, ought to have
been had recourse to sooner,, but be Was glad'
shay ware to be carried into effect now. .The
Noble Lord had said that persons in high situa-
tions ought to have their salaries conshrerably
abated. He OW et... 4 with the Noble Lord in
seriously thinking • th's ought to be done.
BA he thought the .Noble. Lord ought to go
Curt hut, for he (Mr. Ponsonby) was of opi
oio'n that every person receiving money from
the public, ought tO be ready to wake a sacrifice.
Ile spoke uirh confidence ou.this subject, for be
Was all interested person, but' he would say what
the Noble Lord bad ,sugeested w..s not snificient.
Ile was iently for himself to make any Sacrifice:,
Oirit might be necessary, though there were few
whose private would not admit of ihis Vet.
than his. At presto' 901. would ,go further than
1001, would four years ago, opinion -Was,
hat the einolumeuts of those, who receiverlmoney
rout the State Should he reduced, according to
be change which had taktoi place the value of
noney. Ile called upon Miuisters. to give thc
mblic all efficient •impory, but above all, he ex -
ors red than to make sacrifices themselves ahd
spare the people.
Mr. Gooch supported. the motion, and Mr.
CALtay.FT oppoSetl it.
The House divided, when.thenumhers:vvere
Ayes • 21Q
Noes 'll7
Mrtjority '
Another division took place on >t proposition
for substituting the name of Mr. Tremayne for
that 'orLord Binning—Ayes, 136—Noes, 178—
Majorit v for Lori Binning,
The lions afterwards divided, on a motion for
.substituting lee name of Nle.Trertiayne fto Heat f.)
Mr. lloskisson—Ayts; 129—.Nees
ty for Mr. Iltisltb:son,
We understand that the name of Tromayne
was Hit added to the,Comm..tee on the
Motion rut Lord, ClisTLEttltAOW, ;Ind that several
otherchanges were agreed 'to.
The .1
-louse adjourned At Half-past One o'Clock
.Morning.

a~EI
E Tlt I I. ItI:GISTEIt,
l'ely'ornerd Lost
DtttrltY-LANr..--Oiotnitiku; Ortimolin, Nlr. Kent,
;Ws, Stmgrrille. Aftgr which (third thug), Pitkrigiei Re-
turn, and The Pannel,
Covr.NT-Ganna.N.-44ny Manneriug: Henry "Bertram, Mr.
Lucy nertrinno Strpikrits. After:which (th •it
tinte), Aurora, and The Sleep %Vallee,'

. .
Alum::1)-4linn, .2 rhateillitirgh, 1 Dublin, 1 Waterfor.l.
12li r.— Frmive,•
.I.llatithurgh, 1 Guitv.tiburgli,
1 iloll4tud, I (iitenisey sinil.levsr;y. •

PIME oF STM;KS
, I)AT 4.r
per iisi Cr t;,.; 14,114 rmitis,.. 3-1• pr.
perEXch, .
4 per Coitm, CotIJ4, for ices, tif,/ Ga G 64!
It per Cent. Navy

W.VIT.It AT LONIION BRIDGE TO-IIORROW.
ithirtiiiig, 19 minutes after 7.1 L;reifitsg, 44 iiiiibittes after 7

TitlE4 SUN.

soi.Em rAL.l,l,,,Aullt:.lr

lA)ND()N, •
8,1TU11,1)-1Y, FEI3RU.I.ItY 4 1817,

On New Year's Day, after noticing the Cabinet
Councils preparatory to thvOpening of Parliament,
we suit! '• A Statement verb satisfactory to the Nu-
may,'be expected from 31inisters."

How gloriously. this pledge, which we ventured
to give the -Public -in the na►ne at Government,
has been redeemed— we deed only paint .to 'Lord
CASTLIME AG H's Speech of List night to testify. We
cannot now speak of the illustrious rxample set from
the Throne, and tolloWed by the Servantsof die
Crown and Country. As a sacrifice it is noble, as a
pattern'ioestimahle ;—t he effectw ill be felt by the
minutest fibre of our Politieal System, and it Will
be 14t once the best Gagging Dili to the Disturbers
of our Peace, and the greatest Encouragement to
the Lovers of our Coustitution.

The following is a Schedule of all the items of
Expem2iture, Reduction, &c. &e. for the last and
eortent years out Readers will have the whole
before them at one glance:—

Army last year
Ditto thii year

Ittaluction

Nunk beni.

119,

1,23,702

-t5.743

Nunik;em

Ariiiy for Great laritain, Irehadk and Culwiics 41 ,otti
Fraitca •

4.2, I

17,560

Charge.

Army fret yurtr, filolading all exaopt Ofd
lia UGC; • - • i 0,664,000

Ditio tlis 'year, ditto :iiito

:, f,,

Savior ihii year
gating this yeAr in Ordnance

(s'rtftvince last yer -
Dittu this year •

Nary last year -
Ditto this year

Red uction

Navy last year
Ditto this year

Saviug . -

!!ir

•

I,i,

• .0,

- •
DMiitstcor:ldaintteoo:isfSeeiaruvidces I.i:et year, Great Britain 1

Ditto, ditto, thigjear, Great Britain
\Ditty, ditto, ditto, trelitad

-Saving thi9 Year

Army aiving
Navy ditto

Licellan coos

RECAPITCLATIO:i.

Tcttal Savibg

SUPPLY.

1,1!

141
44e,
tto

TO,
6,t,' Z. 4
cOl
0,0
• Or