The Sun.
London, England, 1844-05-01 00:00:00

SHIPWRECKS COMMITTEE.

•
.• -
Lord INGESTRE wished to know from the Right Hon.;
Gentleman (the Secretary to the Admiralty) when he would
bring in a Bill founded on the report of the Shipwrecks Coral
mittee; and also whether there was any intention of making a
provision for the periodical inspection of masters of ships and
masters' mates ?
Mr. S. HERBERT said that with regard to the subject of
the examination of masters of ships and masters' mates, it was,
under consideration; and with regard to the other subject, it
was the intention of the Admiralty to carry the recommends.:
tion of the Committee into effect.
RECAL OF LORD ELLENBOROUGH.
Lord JOCELYN, seeing the Hon. Member for Beverley in.
his place, wished :to know whether .he was prepared, on the
part of the Directors of the East India House, to lay any
papers on the table of the House, with respect to the recal of
the Governor. General of Indial?—( Cheers. )
Mr. HOGG said, that he was not the organ of the Court
of Directors, and he had no authority to answer the ques-
tion.—(Hear,:hear.) He had no objection however, as a mem-
ber of that body, to state his own opinion, and having done so,
it would rest with the Ministers to determine, with reference
to the. public interest, as to the propriety of the production of
papers in that House ; and as to the production:of papers before
the Court of Proprietors, the Court of Proprietors would be
influenced by the course that 'Ministers should adopt. He
would venture, however, to express a hope, that in conse-
quence of what had occurred in another ;place, that the House
and the country would suspend their judgment 'Upon the course
the Court of Directors had pursued.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. ASTELL trusted that the House and the country
would give the Court of Directors credit for having done their
duty. He agreed with what had been stated by his Hon.
Friend.—( Hear, hear ) In consequence of what had occurred
in another place, he trusted the House and ihe country would
suspend their judgment.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME wished to know whether there would be any
objection to lay before the House a copy of the correspondence
which had taken place between the Government end the Court
of Directors on the subject. He thought the Court had acted
rightly, and he did not see why parties that had done so should
be blamed.—( Hear, hear.) -
Sir R. PEEL said that with respect to the period when the
correspondence would be laid on the table he could give no in-
formation to the:House.
Mr. HUME wanted only to know whether the Government
would lay the papers on the table or not?
To this.questiou no answer was returned. _
ATMOSPHERIC' RAILWAYS.
Lord-H. VIVIAN begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentle-
man the. Recorder of Dublin, whether it was his -intention to
introduce
a Bill on the subject of atmospheric railways?
Mr. SHAW said that there was now before Parliament a
Bill which would afford -an opportunity of putting the princi-
ple to the test of experiment, upon a line of :twenty-one miles.
RELIGIOUS TESTS IN .UNIVERSITIES
. (SCOTLAND.) •
Mr. FOX MAULE rose, according to notice, to move for
leave ,to bring in a Bill to .alter the law: relating to oaths taken
by professors in the Universities
.of Scotland. The inconve.
nience occasioned by the present administration of oaths to
professors was so great, that he thought he •was justified in t
once moving.for leave to bring in a Bill, without any previous
step. He wished that the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
would meet him at once upon the principle, instead of object-
ing to the form of his proceeding. It was• not hislutention to
go into the whole question of university retort/v.-in Scotland,
which woul4 open too wide a field; but he would confine him-
self Plikit'flY, to. the. subject .of the. qa",....5•
to those Wlio hold offices in the universities.
He would read to the House an extract from the Act of Se-
curity, which was passed in 1607, providing the test to be
taken by those who should thereafter hold office in the Uni-
versities of Scotland. (The Right Hon. Gentleman here read
the extract in question, by which it was provided that no pro-
fessor, principal, registrar, or other person holding office in any

.rxi;3lc,

!ff4G444tZ„

::n•sa

t.

:,,s,p,pa 3

_ •-•

. _
. • .

,•of the nniversitie4.- colleges, or schools 'of Scotland, should , ,-s
kifip, rartrlt illhaiii,.i. felt it his is duty-to pursue. In vain had he
,*.rinitted to exercise their functions; unless' they should havq, arfneff„ o ,t.e•speec of the Right Honnurable.Gentleman
l first acknowledged the. Civil Government as established, and prosy; krsast ,stpunetatipn (Attie grievances occasioned by it. Not a
:fisted their belief in, andsubscribed the Confession Of Faith, an sfraCe. eta: gilivitiCefiad-haiet heard of, and most attentively
'iortfrihipped in'the Church, and submitted to the government and, lisd he tiit-Oed tat had been. uttered. Bet the Hon.
'the :discipline thereof. Such were the previsions of, the, Ask [Aeritteinkai ',N,44!9,544. I.'-'ll
is assertion that helvouldhe no party
,of Security; and it had at theteggestionnf the professocki.,fraeny repaeuieavlne should be prejudicial .to the Church, and
themselves for the tithe being,_ that all persons holding :hither, i which sissertiiea'he:lSir J. • Graham) most unfeignedly be-
'rityin the universities hid been required to take this test. Clieirtl--14.clevraied, that he mould offer no objection to 'a s,irt.
' ' Now holever illiberal and narrow-minded those -opinions! ofnegative test or declaration .on the part of professors. Novi,
Inight appear at the present-day, he could find an excuse fog he Sir J. Grahaiii) could understand very well what a test
those who had enacted them. 'They were not directed against titeent,'hut, helw:a.s,,,really at a, loss
.to; understand what was
any hotly of DisSeirterS; as the law, was UnderstoOdintheprea... ,'meant by negative test. He must be-permitted to say, though
sent day ; they were not directed against tfie Roman-Catholics.„tt could shown, ,be believed, that in all the Universities in
The Scottish Universities • were proteeted ,againgtahem by the„.S4itland: Honoraryl4i-embers were 'exempt from- the test—
Penal laws.- Whey were intended 'tq isresserke*,.. religious
,thoilgh it 'eneirasslie shown that in the _University of- Glasgow
-wiiiihiVortife -cOuntri-T--ThiCAct of Sect's% was, confirm . EilscopAans bask filled, the professoes - chair-.yet they had
EaPyteld'alylian to s had
fill
'by the •Acf'ofUniOn; Mai confirmation hivieg been insisted on taken
.the tett.. No teacher -in - .Glasgow..had filled the
'by the Scotch themselves,
,There were 'excuses 'to be made chair WithoUt "taking, the test Tho
or
r- -
-foe their insisting on the re-enactment of the Act of. Security. . been admitted either by-
sufferance,
' Theyrecallected the' persectitionsWhich they, as Presbyterians,.. the professor's chair, yet, up to the present time, no Presbyte-
hati suffered under Charles the First. They. recollected their, lien dissenter 'had been admitted into the Universities of
sufferings 'onaCcount of their religion in the tinie'ol,Charles;
,Scotland. He (Sir,J. Graham) would not now enter into the
the Secend and James the Second,-; They Could. not. but res. seaeisionho denlissetilit--,Wwas _a great misfortune---it was
' Member' the 12,000 Presbyterians
,Who in the latter persecu-' extensive—most extensive ; .an'd beslwas desirens. that no word
'lions, had suffered death on account of their' religion.. All these shonldtall from 'him that shoulchtexasperate . that secession.
'thing! Were fresh in'the:r memo ie''S at the, time of the passing Now, it was with peculiar pleasure that. he heard the Right
of the Aet of Union, ihd:When they were uniting, themselves to, : Ron., Gentleman state, that though.. e had seceded from the
ti 'Legislature composed of a ' majority of Snatiqn professing a ,lion.,
he ( Sir. J. Graham). considered that his
faith which they , had such' reason to regard.. .. as hostile 16as to it vial, great indeed—yet, having 'seceded from it, he
to theirs, they were right to take . care to guard themselves ' was not its enemy, •and would. not .do 'anything to 'subvert it.
against any atteinpt . which -might' be „Made .. CO .subvert I-le•f( Sir ,I, Graham) was-sorry to say that that was not the
, their natienal. religion.- That . was *the ',Only 'excuse that. langeage of acme of the seceders.. Men had been found among
! cioalit las . Made for their' insisting, on the professors of them who bad declared themselves the enemies ef the Establish ed
' 'their " &win universities . 'and colleges
.taking these 'tests. Church of Scotland, and stated that they considered that that
' Hoyetsng this practice of administering the test: had gone on *graitian Establishment, as they called it, was a ruisance which
in -the yeiVersity ef Edlnburgli he could not say, but there had ought to be .abated. He was sorry-that -the-Right Hon. Gen-
'net been.'foryearaJO the.liy professors any test .idthinistered, tiernan had brought forward 'his motion at :'the present time.
PrinelPil Bene," in his evidence, said-thatisi, Edinburgh Uni- He had told the House that no Presbyterian Dissenters bad
Verity .he was not' aware that any lay 'profess& had been been admitted into the Universities of 'Scotland. • Now what
obliged to take the test.':' In the University of Aberdeen, since was the nature,of thesietrouage_ of tthososi/niversities, and who
• 1826,The tests had been strictly administered, latit'thitt iirevioss held it ? It, bad !been held btesthasmemberssnf the different
't61626-thete- had been a Taxity respecting these tests, In the Corporations; ,hut sitistisp,•peesent•time itniight be held by
honorary Offices. of 'rector and dean no test had: ever 'beep ad-. men who preferred. Dissenters-, ter-fill,the: different chairs of
ministered ;. and, what etas still more singular,: in the Uni- those Universities, unless some tests-existed• If• a' Dissenter
ieteity 'Of Aberdeen, the greater number of
.the lectiverS who, was appointed to those chairs, who could ' doubt that
:taught ritipilst ii`the fullest•extent were stihjected:ao no test. he would *eh: his own =peculiar views:,..-( Hear, hear. )
The practice ef.admipistering thfs test had in -Abeydeen . go. 04 .. not ( think ... there was any great evil in
. and ins'Ediribrirghpidchictive of no betiegt-','Whatever, and the the' 'establishment of rival institutions to Which - Dissenters
absence of the test had-been attended:with sp,Manner of in might go and obtain the best education. ' Onahe contrary, he
jury te-the-E-srabliskett'Chilfeli...- If .theylooked"th the nature thought rivaliilvsnadi have the' best effect.' '-It was a matter
of the -test, and. considered the character ofthe Seotch ministry, of: primary impetbnceithet :the connection'st the Universities
- they --wooki •- at' 'once' see 'there Was: no necessity what.' with• the. Church should -remain. It was very true that these
' h
ever- fori' application .' - TheY . were ,' seminaries _for-, tests were erected against the danger of Episcopaey ; but he-
instruction. in literature, licieace, • .reedicine,' - and „the , ..cansethax danger had teased; it would be mort.nnwise, in his
arts.-:( IFlearl') Little. danger , was to .he . apprehithded opinion,, to remove them. Those tests were available against
'to the,Established.Church from this Mode. of education.,
...He Presbyterian Dissenters seeking to obtain a preponderance in
did not contend that profesiers of divinity shonld be excluded the Scotch Universities. Those tests bad .existed for a cen-
from the test-.-it was tram lay prefessOrs, hecontensied, and the , tury and .4 half, and some of the first men in this country
administration' of 'the test to them would give.the Universities connected with science and ' • the arts had. • filled the
. a sectarian &erecter. He had hoped that this practice Of ad- chairs of , those Universities,• notwithstanding these tests
ministering the test Would gt'sdnally fall 'into oblivion, but the 'very many men of eminence, among whom he might mention
late unfortunate religious differences in'Scotlaad had renewed - Lord Melbourne, the Marquis of Lansdowne,-and the Noble
the question in all its 'bitterness. One of the Most distin- Lord, the Member for the City. of London; had goae to Scot-
guished men in the Scotch Universities had alteady- refused to land for the purpose of receiving part of their;education, not-
aakethe test, he had been subjected; to the grOssest indignity withstanding these tests; .and he (Sir-J. Graham) was satis-
by'being thrutt from his distinguished -position by the Estab- fled that if they :would -only • leave' the matter Untouched all
.lithed Church, *edit was quite clear that .if the tests Must would go well., :The Right -Hon. -.Gentleman the Member for
stand they Must be universally soil impartially administered to Perth had asked whether they were prepared to revive tests.
all as well as to one.. What would be the ethisequence of ;such It was not a question of revival, but whether they, should also-
a:stepas this '• "Why,-all would he subjected to a confession of lish tests 'which had existed for a ' hundred and fifty years.
their faith; and the ,members "of Glasgow, , St. Andrew's, The. Right .Hon. Gentleman had alluded to several petitions
Aberdeen; and Edinburgh Uniiersities would be called upon to froni the Scotch Universities, bat so far from those petitions
sign the
,I'rnisilsr .of the Church of 'Scotland, and either they being in' favour -of the - proposed measure, they were
!deist fetord theinselies members of that 'Clnirch,,,thee inust against the ..change..—( Hear, hear.) In short, many of
'sacrifice their pithier's, or` abjure *their conscientious opinions. the petitions stated that the removal of the tests
But that was not the oily thing. It 'would 'also restrict them would have the effect of destroying , the Universities, by
!hereafter to a Most limited. extent rel.' their 'Own basis. There driving away their scholars. The lion. and Gallant Gentle-
as,4 et the present Moinent, a vieint chair in "the University man whe rescinded the motion talked of the spread of' secession,
iiifsdiriburgh, anti'the University and the. public would be • Why it was only that very day that he had seen, in a Dundee.
'deprived of the 'services Of 'noless a man than .Mr.• Farraday, newspaper, that a. Scotch clergyman who had seceded had re-
lietause he would' ncifiabkiibe to the iules of the Established turned to the- Church.—( Hear, hear, from Mr. 'Pox Mattis. )
• Church._( Hear,) The.; if they looked to those chairs which The Right ..Hoe. Gentleman, perhaps, might be prepared to
ineltide the teaching, of elassies in the ,Seetch Universities, prove that it was not so,
they all knew very well; that the Heliconian spring. did not Mr. FOX MAULE—No; no.
exist in Scotland, and were they' to refuied the ;services of Sii J. GRAHAM• was . glad to see that they must come to
'the distinguished niembers of other Universities, they • • the turning pant, • and secession • must be considered as at an
would not subscribe to the Confession of Faithof thiEitablished end. --(Hear; bear) He hoped before the debate closed they
' Chirch'of Seotland?" Ile next came to the honorary otficei in . would hear'what --Stotch Members had to say upon the sub-
the-Universities:' . Great, stress was laid .oti, the , necessity of jest. They• had still in that House many whese Dames and
their being tests for those offiCes,' or at 'all events. of the per- ,ancestors were eminently connected with the histOry. of Scot-
sons appointed`to theist being subject to be called on to sub- land; and hehoped 'that they would give their evidence frankly
'setibe to the Confession of
_Faith. He believed, however, that .and.fairlY in favour of the Church of their .ancestots.' He
' the 'practice id all the:Universities- was . never, to.. require these thought that, as Scotchmen, they shOald .pricee& with their
test's in any honorary' aPpointmeOt. The appointment .of :the usual caution upon this important question. As a Minister of
'Right Hon. Gentleman' opposite to the dignity:of Lord ReCtor the -Crown, bound-as far as- in him lay to maintain inviolate
-.of the University of Glasgow we's an' instance in which no test the.PiesbyteriaruChurch as established in Scetland,„fie must
writ 'required ; and When he.(Mr., Fox Mettle). was honoUred oppose the introduction of the-Bill. '. ' ~ `l
with the same office for one year, be did not subscribe to any test Mr. RUTHERFORD agreed. wiih:the Right .}tbn. Gen-
,
The principle of the University of Glasgow was, that the test tleman, that this entirely was a Scottish question, and one or
should remain:in force even with regard to honorary ogees, most vital importance, and before he' entered into the merits.,
though it appeared the practice did not .very well: agree With of the ease, he must express a wish that the Right Hon. Ba-
thes theory. Last year he made 'inquiries respecting
.the ronet opposite, would not lay 4. the flattering 'unction to his
rules of the Universitty;While passing. thraugh Glasgow, end soul," that any alteration had' taken place in, the generality
the'prineipal held him disqualified because he would not sub- of the people of Seotland, with respeetto this secession ques-
steribe 'the tests'; but the Right Hon. Gentleman .opposite, lion. It was supposed that. the Clergy of Scollind were
•when LOH Rector, presided at an election ftir .a ,professor of mercenary men, , and 'would not give up . their livings.
'divinity, and it:was in fact, by his tasting .vote,, that the Look to what had been the:resUlt. Therehad been a secession
'electiOri had been decided in favour of D. Hill,. though he of more than one half of them frornthe .Church.. The Church
hact taken no oaths, and it Was well, knowe was
.directly opposed was no longer what it was in the towns of Scotland, or in the
to doing so.—( Hear.)" lii.did. 'Mit think the House had ever :country amongst the rural population. It was no longer, known
' had an easier or a clearer 'ease to deal 'with.. The, majority of as the Church of Scotland—(Hear, hear)—Which, of all the
'the- professors in all the Scottish Universities were favourable cliarches in the world had most closely united the affections of
:te tlie Bill, and he:believed:with. the exception of••some lin- :.the people to it.'--(Hear,, hear.) That which was• now the
' steppes-
•in the Uni'v'ersities of. Edinburgh, and of Aberdern, Eitablished Church of Scotland Was the church of the mino-
they Intd•ill expressed their opitheiton the subject, petitibns ritya-aee end riqt a Very large reinority.---(Cbeerao: Those
to that House. .It should be spoken to their credit, that _whOlravellestthrinigh. Sootland" trigtit read the aiigna of the
trtet.liarlhadidie liberality to baniiliahe system'
ol•tests.friom times, !, fgt.-filet' -could. not " move through - the Country
. h..
among them for many- years.past,. ande- would call on Oie without '•iieing': everywhere the, censequencei' ,Country
the
House to bewarebefore they ittetapted ae,,,aetiew that-systlera secession; -berea .. in 'the Southern. counties.-(Hear, hear. )
again. 'Bit' doing so they. would. raise ,up rival institutions, There. viefe-'lOO '-ehitielei in course of being built bY the
from , 'which professors . favourable`. to ~:the.,. Established seceding psrty, and the 1 suns, which ,had been subscribed was
Chitral *mild : be. .' banished ; ,and :. :not . -, only that, far beyond *hat hid been
.'calculated upon.—(Hear, luar.)
but every ..iedivldual' . educated •In • these: Ipstitutions Larger subscriptions were given- for. the support,' Of the chanties
would' •be ' brought up ,in -. rivalry ', . and hostility than were given before the secession. The application of the
to the Established cUrch,, whereas 14 being_ educated in the test to the admission of teachers to ahe Universities struck at
• - ..• • •Wi .
present:Universities With' Members aaf that Church,. such fetl- twcs4hirds of the population of Scotland.. He would quote the
ings would never " -be :."created..iiiTikse them.. ~: Perhaps case of Dr:-.7trewster, a man of an European fame.--( Hear,
Illemherssviere notaWare that the, Established Church was at ' hear)—of undenhted eloquence, and whose attachment to the
, present the 'church of 'the minority.of .the -people of. Seotlard. Church of SCbtland was undoubted, to show hew scandalously
In the year 1707 it was the: relignin of nearly the
.entire of this test was applied: .Because he seceded from the Church he•
that people,' but the time was past .when a ' Sccitchman could was assailed by intolerant opponents, . and ' the application:
West of such being the case any longer; Hedid 11.44, make that of the test was -insisted on in order. to oust him... 7.-( Cheer s. )4
' assertion without having gone, through some calculations. On He referred 'to this case to shod- how the test.. would be.
looking into the report,of :the Church' Education committee, allowed to o_perate if they did not, in, good time, appli.-, a.
it appeared that the propOrtidn was about a' illion of Church- remedy.—( Hear, hear.) He . trusted that • the arareerig
men to half a million of
,DiSsenteri, but since
.the disruption Parliament weald hold the balance between both partitss, and
had taken plieein the .Church, he was not,. over the mark in that English Gentlemen would look upon this as A Scotch
• stating that 400,000 indiv ideals hadleft the Established Church. question. The Right Hon.
.Gentleman referred 'tothe Act
He would. not ask the House ,to accede to .his motion if he ,or 1707 as the ground on which he opposed the motion. . The
thought it would affect' the stability of the Church. He did Right Hon. Gentlemen, at first, seemed.to doubt whether the
not want', to lay any rude :bands on her, histitutiOnS,. even " System of tests was good or opt," and whether : the . House
thinighle differed from her doctrines, but,.on the contrary, in ought not 'ln .deal -with the questipn ; but, he'turned .
'Submitting his motion'to the House, le..was convinced, that the • round • • at.:' the end, and said that lay and secular
test system, if allowed to continue,would not onlyendanger the teacheri Soiled .. be likely to instil their own'particular
• wellsbeing'ef the University; but the peemanence of the Church, 'doctrines into the minds of their, hearers. This was net found
by raising up the rival estatlishroents to which he had before re- to fife the casein Scotland. The:teachers of jurisprudence and
ferred. Now, he begged to state that he had no objection in the . medicine,aed the other lay professors, discharged their duties
Bill which he, proposed to introduce for thepurpose of relieving with perfect impartiality, and did-not interfere,with matters of
prefessorefrom these* tests,..ahould it be desired by.H onourable religious belief.. The. Right Hon.. Gentleman referred to•
Gentlemen opposite ' to' him, to introduce a sort of. negative another danger- in the
_establishment of , rival Univeraitiel,
test. • That. was, he was willing . to insert a clauie requiring .He though the more education there was the better.
,He asked,
them to make -a declaration that, in their classes and lectures wokild they give those rival Universities, which the secederi
they would not teach anything which might tend to the pre- might establish, the power of granting those degrees whitzli
• jediee Or lead to the -subversion of the Established Church. thu. gave to the State .Universities ?—( Hear, ,hear.) Ay ,in,
•He had no ' objection 'that professors should be re- Scotland was not a very large country, And if those tests -were
• quired - -to do that, thou,gh 'he thought ,it was per- applied, the. number. of, the pupils , 'would be dimiaiabed,
feetly useless, because he -knew that in ' the% arts and and - the remuneration, of the professors . being in come-
in the sciences the professors of the Universities of. Seotlan quetfea ' diminished,. professors , of .ability would. not
wete men who attended to their own hotness,. and never at- be • found -to fill the chairs at the "'Universities.
tempted to go out of their way to hrifi in subjects with which ' There was nothing in the test to make pr0f...420ra boter
• fiatin.--(Hear, hear.) Would any body be,Vess qualified to
their lectures had nothing to do. .He should simply conclude Qualified to teach medicine, chemistry, jurisprudee;ce, Greek, or
)attinogwetihgeh
wßeiglihttheHdoenciiioGnentotlewmhanichohpoposwiotueld( SciormJe;
teach an abstract science because he hes' not taken it ?
hGElyeraeahniastmol'e
--(Hear, hear.) The Right Hou. Gentleman then referved
entreated the House not to seal with its approbation
the revival of a system of tests which, perhaps, might have bee* to two-professors in Glasgow who signed the test, not being of
.justified at the time it was adopted, which, in the present the Established Church of Scotland, One of the worst souse
(ponces of the test would be, that it would kad men to alter,
-
• spirit of the age, was totally and entirely obnoxious to the feel- ,
ings of all men of liberal education, and which could be attended and-act with reservation, instead d acting in a plain, straight-
with no good effect to the Established Church, but,. on the ferwar4
manner. , The evil consequences :.of . the test
Contrary, was calculated to pull down rather than to support Might' not have been felt when . all . Scotland was
'that venerable fabric. --( Hear. )
- : united in one Church, but now when the Churns of Scotland
Sir A. LEITH HAY said he should • very briefly second Was divided, not into a variety' of creeds, bilt,'when there was
the motion of his Right Hon. Friend ; and in doing so he per- •le large party whO wouldnot conform to
,the practice and wor-
frctly agreed in all the arguments. advanced •- an
by him, din all ' ship of the Church, and Who would not suhenit to its discipline,
his opinions, more particularly in the. one with which he had it was time for the Legislature to. interifere.—( Hear, hear. )
concluded, that the measure now •recommended to the House The main ground on which the litight, Hon. , Baronet refused
was not calculated to weaken the foundations of the Church, to secede to the introduction of the,.:Sill- was, that it was oP7
or to • prejudice its interests,• but rather to, strengthen posed to the Act of 17Q7—the Act. of Security.--( Hear, hear)
the one and advance the other. He,could easel* that among When the Act of Union passed, this separate Act w
'ill- - the professors, past and present, of the Universities palmed; and it became
~part, and. parcel of the Actofrn alion.
of Scotland, not an instance-could be -fotuxi-of a-professor -The people V -S.Cotlana thought( it mould -be
.ato
find that
introducing tenets into his-lecturea foreign to the subject which their Church.., But. . they '
had soonreaslnainst .thnovatir, u
• he was- appointed to teach. -The question would. not have been
mooted, .but for the unhappy.' divisions which had occurred in -•--(Chierty—for: ' in about. five years
.Parliament passed an Act
'ft
' *al.
''
tafill' very 'strong safeguard sitter the passing •
tbesChurch of Scotland; but as they had occurred, it was of the Act of' 1707, the IMperial .ii,
. .blinds of the clergy, and
doubly necessary that something should be done tiaon.,the sub- • *hit% +Changed the constitution of the. Church of Scotland, by
,from whom it was previously taken
ject. ,If the. coursnow , suggested- ere ad°Rteds he !Wei satin- aemoying', the patronage from the ma . ,
•Beclit itauld tend greatly to soothe asperities, and to soften t'estaring•it to thepatren
• those 'unhappy' differences :which had shaken • ScOtland to its away by an, 'Act; of the
.Scotch Parliament passed in 1609.
it here was 4 new one. ---( Cheers. )
foundation. -He - thought . the Right Honourable . Gentle- That was an old instance,
teiathe constitution of the Church of
min opposite (Sir
,James` .Graham) must now greatly -fn the last year theY
tee;_tlstill prepared to call the Act of last
A 4 -(Cheers.)? Were they prepared to
regret' the supineness he . Lad :shown on • .the subject of Scotland. Were
.i 4 •Brooghim, and all the • other judges -wh o
the Scotch Church ; 'foe, he- must by this time have found r decl a 0
TOI---ri :, er therY'.face of the opinions of Lord Cot-
that that delay had been the most prejudicial thing that do . ,-45ist.
had ever 'happened to Scotland,. and, inbia.( Sir A. L. Hay's) tenkatas .
..
cheers..)
opinion, ' it- would be more prejudicial . still. - • ;
ana
.. hi,
,•..eoue 41 the constitution of the
•He therefore row*n_ ~ ludgm. en.t. ••In ~ the case. 7---(liear-, jand
Church of Scotland by
tle iiiatlAßOfisAct in .a. mint delicate point—the distribution of
trusted that the Right Hon. Baronet, would use. assist Isle,
ins the' iinithosities,. and 'hindering, as nans ,es
.s. ~ ,
' tion wale* p,ktiakiage.„. --The
laPlentable disruption
adherents the teittai,arid the worst. consequence. of what. they were
0 unqn. "- tigt46,.l. theme d.Cibitel:l4htc. tatuyraiSmeootulaulddimwapsrearythethceba.raChe:errehofoaf
cOnseqateeco Of the shockingi and
had taken place. ' The House roust recollect that
ii?' ifie Ettiblished Chureh of Scotland did not nowdreanl44
44 ; ;0'
- This
.nie therefore Tliefie'lieli9AS-Wollid teCorile'Odi ,of. Scotland.—( Hear, hear.)
snore than one-third of the population. :
tioirlit theie tests more importantihan
llsveßill, sdthatthere -petsge„,--(llear ;hear.)
Bic,
of their Learhitig Wouldthe 7,
egtia AA the great majority of the
linked leave would be given to bring in
d fill the . .0
_.,.....13,1; vianild found other schools.
might collie down to their Country.san ..
from this, and who, abilitirVo\a h.
..
.:r - precluded from hemming teachers in conse-
ea were Unable ftnru their reli- ratehia'S Of, their pied'religious. • • and tinder the/Wesel:l'i "cirenntstanc , .
s •- - .. s ar opinions, two-thirds
profskirs;mett 'of the, highest eminence.
_ .... nt. the 1 *pie
given to bring in taught . an' Those where the test was required..
gienao do so. . .
.wAl!lil not . send . their -children to be
A:.brand:wai „universities,
pliced upon two-thirds of the people, because the
anill •, - • •commencement of the Legislature . . ,
' GRAHAM said, in, the oh- considered them unable to ' furnish teachers
....thi.ti4
quist4.4 being put that- leave . be
se:rSriartileiisGhe should address to th4Jlc4nes 11.0 would take leave of ' their "Mtn.-- ( Hear, hear.) They would-not only destroy
g. a point which .had been alluded to thilie early part of the ,Chgtch of Seotland,, but they would 'create a sectarian
X 11°Ag t the Hight Iron. Gentleman who had- introduced church;: which would ,becOMe the most intolerable of evils to
thee speech
übjee tobefere them. He must say that, in -a matter'like the 4iiatry;-'...(Cheers.) , -• .. ' • •
this, Which was avowedly to affect the Etablithed,Cherch of Thi:LORDADY.9pATE felft hirosel'i boundby hisconvic-
, ecoterd, and, which vas in i connection with the fundamental dons* to Stlite that he Was opposed to a mot ion whereby they were
. article of *the Act of Union, he thought the Right Hon.. Ge- eallechipen in reiCal'certaie tests that. bad been enacted by the
bad4tlliera,pferring
done well in avoiding' a resolution of
~the House, wiiclutit 91.thetisr 4"91441.4,:,and 'which.:had continued in exist-
to ask leave to bring in a Bill upon the sob- enee for -Altera of, about a century ailed a half. •: He had not
j'Fct,;,74l-lowever, he ttionght his. Right Hon. Friend had shown heard 'that any one. instance of eny,...practical evil had resulted .
vemanundjndgment, 'but beyond this he'would nap, for he from Alik eitistegce pithesse teats, Tab the exceptiorit.ointdhreee,,s,st.r
visiejaehry to, say, he felt ithis - duty decidedly' to oppose the too- alluded iir.isheving occurred ia,thevUni verse yOf S
t. re ns thabi
tiaitanstoOinitted from the Chair., . He, however, must admit rt had :beep 'Omitted, that it W'111.4" imixdvtrat• their object
the historical truth with which the.Right.Hon. Gentleman had those tests were.enacted. .It wareynd kite_ t.
intfloelfaced his case; and with respect to the policy which ors- was to proteet; the Es
Scotland
these tests sie e
girially euggestedthese,tests, there was no material difference that was apprehended.to:it from Firaiseopacy...r
beyfemthem. He new• wished to remind the House that reasonable t
. 9 PiotFt thq - hurt Chur -from. the anticipated danger
Established Church of tland from dangerj
concludeti they were. reasonable for the
theamgrti jnyited to deal with a matter which had been so- of Eniscoeaev, then e. s . .
other danger. . .Ne doubt
lerenliaetaled, by the, Scotch .Parliament,
f* ' ta d I itcould
ahangelo :macaw nces,•an i
.which formed the proteetion. of 4,olll.urciaafrgul auy,-
furidamantal article of the Union, and which thetreaty of Union there had beettAitios
~,:.ehialgo
~114_
,circumstanceswas
admitted ftf no 11tp'.!!?%:Iii,ci
declared to be indispensable. --Tbe treatymade that declaration maduAlltestitP '''' -
,4ir „ .•e••-,' ritilei - t:epeal; reef ; those . tests
in, tSe_ earngeptiainanner, and_in •wprila which
„wes.requiretho be made -outlet %wort •
illiato,n4tMut des'
be their tepeal.. - But .
raarepxeseetation WhateVer-notthathe (Sir J. Graham) was then was oil" b. ea;a t,
taittt.a'eltam:aitecte.t'ip-t,,atets:74'.
.t.
xlta:l,
gthitate tgith•assaiLlehenty:o,
iwteirlose'eenatesair.,,vt=
ALseat:i
geltig ia;the present ay to argue • that because at a, far distant d i',,fo;jet ,thent els Aerie the importance tisati weal
period admething had beendeclitred hindiMental that it should such
for ever be immutable—but whit be should contend for, was
daiolental iirii49 4 , the iiill 4:: Of- ...Union, f th •'' ''
or 6 alPeurity atill
thatAanges should not be made on any slight round, or upon f
,enl geR . • • ....
IVtkitial occasion. Least'of'ardiii lie think they ought to un . „ ..s
f r 'A,
having kiginally been de- proteetteßo the, Church„. L ...ay were to rezabeje =abet-, arett taalahper,. ~ear meddle,Witli that Whjek,
eared' fendamental, was still
mass of the
.population of
.Scotland of . thepresent day., . For a great, gliFige, of_ o.FelPimtrAtteimin that cow, + asivefiienee to
Parliament in the. Chum. He 441..n0t,,•,kau, bah .
held- in the • Maar regard, by a.vast whir Because there had witthina,heaut
..., . . 0 ,ftrisen
h- and
this Matter*. came under. the consideration, of
o e :of , the stancee.„ art. roastin,-, Altat . tests . any', - 11. dim: • had
ken
_presented, signed • by. the : uilme't.'i sig;l' stP :'i- -t• - • -• • -,I ---pAitec
the -year 1826*; . and in the' year IBao a report_ „had Lear*64 i.riend Maw 6inwthltavbecausweree
.:. •- 'ad efer en -seafrombecomeless necessary, or whet' ter he meant to
molt' -ethinent • 'men Mat h
Scotland to that House. The Members on that Committee say, that because that change sr ,s circumstances had
concurred in recommending not only that the tests should not arisen the Church should be no loaf ,er protected. It was
It Os tilthtiget'irf oCir.ctirn-
be discontinued, but that they should be more vigorously ap- one of those two propositions which 1 hey meant. Either ou
plied.—( Hear, hear.) Now he thought when he reminded account of that change of circumstane es the test was no longer
the House that this system of tests was the fundamental article I necessary, for the danger no longer es ;fisted, or because of that
of the Union, and when he quoted the opinion just referred to, ' change of circumstances the Church no loner deserved pr
0.
I the House would be slow to disapprove the course which he tection. Now, he did he danger was diminished

.....--_ _
to the Established Church by the change of circumstances that
had occurred within the last few years. He did not admit that
the secession had occurred to the extent that some Honourable
Members alleged—he admitted it to be large, but it was not
to such an extent as to give any colour to the assertion that the
Church only contained one-third of the population. How-
ever,.he admitted that alargeseparationandsecessionhadtaken
place, and he was gratified, in common with his Right Hon.
Friend behind him ( Sir James Graham), to hear the tone
in which the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. 'Fox Maule) had
spoken of the Church. He hoped these expressions and sen-
timents would have their effect and due weight in certain
quarters, but certainly he had seen much in the statements of
parties who took a leading position with those who separated
themselves from the Church, which did not lead him to con-
clude that the Church was less exposed to danger from those
parties than it was at !the time the tests were established.
Therefore he thought it could not be said that the tests were
less necessary to protect the Church from present danger than
they were formerly to protect it from the danger ap-
prehended from Episcopacy. If he saw the spirit that
animated his Right Honourable Friend opposite ex-
tended among the parties to whom he -referred, he
apprehended the danger would be less. But that was not the
condition of matters now ; and it was because that danger
existed that the Church was deserving of protection. If they
were to have an Established Church, they ought not to remove
the safeguards that they had placed upon it just at the very
time when danger was strongest, and to prevent which danger
those tests and protections were applied. He saw, therefore,
neither in the fact that a secession had taken place,
nor in the character of the Church of Scotland, any reason
to remove from it the protection of those tests. He was quite
aware that the effect of those tests at the time of their esta-
blishment, and now, was to limit the field from which professors
were chosen to fill chairs in the Universities. That was a neees-
eary consequence. It had been said that those tests would have
precluded many learned men—would have precluded Locke and
Newton from filling chairs in the Universities of Scotland ; hut
it must be remembered that the application of similar tests in
England would have precluded Stewart and Playfair from tak-
ing chairs in the Universities of Oxford or Cambridge. The
result of those tests had been that in either end of the island
the Universities had not wanted most able and effective pro-
fessors to fill chairs in their respective Universities. That
being the result, he could not admit that any practical grieve
ance had arisen from those enactments. He could not agree
that the continuance of those tests was oppressive. It was
stated that a most eminent philosopher, who filled a situation
in one of the Universities—a position in which he was placed
after his eminence had been established—in which he believed
he did not teach, but yet that he exercised considerable au-
thority, had been exposed to harrassing proceedings in con-
sequence of his secession from the Church. What those pro-
ceedings were, he (the Lord Advocate) was not in a position to
state. But seeing that those tests did not operate in prevent-
ing a sufficient number of professors being supplied to the dif-
ferent Universities in either end of the island, and seeing that
of the petitions presented to the House on this subject,
the majority are against the removal of these tests, he did
not think that they ought to feel themselves called upon to de-
part from those safeguards which the wisdom of our ancestors
had established for the protection of the Church.
• After a few words in explanation from Mr. RUTit•
FORD,
Mr. CHRISTIE thought that the proposal of the Right
Hon. Member for Perth was too reasonable and moderate, to
be defeated for any length of time by resistance from any Go-
vernment. He trusted that the conduct of the Government, in
this matter, would have the effect of uniting all seceders from
the Church and Dissenters in a comprehensive agitation against
the application of all religious tests in all universities. It
had not been denied that the law imposing those ' tests
had not been complied with; and that in Edinburgh those
tests were not applied. The Lord Advocate had rested his
, resistance to the motion, on the ground that no grievance
had been proved to result from those tests. But, could he
prove that any good had:resulted from them ? In Edinburgh
University, where they did not exist, had any injury ;been
caused by the non-application of them ? In that university
there were many professors who had been Episcopalians at the
time of their entrance, and probably were so still. He
might mention the professor of logic, Mr. Hamilton,
and Professor Wilson, who had both graduated in i the
Lniversity of Oxford, and the professor of mathematics
in the Edinburgh University was a clergyman of the Chbrch
of England, and the Right Honourable Gentleman lwho
introduced this motion stated that the universities of Scotliand
were in a great degree dependent upon the universities of
Oxford and Cambridge for professors of classical literature.
Now when those learned men performed the duties that were
entrusted to them with fairness and ability, what necessity
was. there to inquire into their theological opinions ? He re-
gretted that the Right Hon. Member for Perth had excepted
professors of theology from his motion ; for, judging of matters
as they now presented themselves in the universities, he must
say that if they could trust them as teachers of literature, they
might trust them in matters of theology, without any of these
odious tests. Those tests only strengthened religious disunion
among all parties in Scotland; and he trusted the time was at
- hand when all such restrictions would be abolished.
Sir G. CLERK was not surprised at the speech of the
Honourable and Learned Member, though not immediately
connected with Scotland, inasmuch as he had a motion
on the paper for the abolition of tests in the universities
of England. The question really at issue was this; were
they to maintain ',the principle which, on every occasion, had
been acted upon throughout the United Kingdom, namely,
that of connecting the universities, through the mediunt of
the Established Church of the country, with the State. ; It
wee upon that principle that the University of Dublin ;was
established, and it was upon that principle that the Univer-
sities of Scotland were established. He knew of no tenable
ground upon which the removal of those tests could be ad-
vocated, at a time like the present, when the Universities of
Scotland were most anxious to maintain them. Much had
been said about the secession which had taken place in the
Church of Scotland lately, but he slid not believe that it
had gone to the great extent which had been represented,
Now these tests had been enforced in several of the Univer-
ities for 150 years. The subject had been carefully investi-
gated by a Commission, which made its report in 1813 ; and
tbat Commission had even recommended that the tests should
be more rigidly enforced than they had been. The Commis- .
suon eppeared to feel very strongly on the subject ; stating, as
they did, that no measure could be adopted which would Ibe
more prejudicial to the interests of the Universities than
one which tended in the least degree to dissever them from
the Established. Church. Some years after, a Commission
which visited the University of Aberdeen, made a similar
report. Under these circumstances, why should they be called
upon to take a step which would necessarily weaken the existing
connection? They were told that a considerable number of
very eminent persons had left the Church of Scotland, many
of whom had held professorships in the Universities. He
believed that there were many eminent and zealous Presby-
terians who had been members of the University of Oxford,
and had of course as such signed the Thirty-nine Articles. A
very learned judge in Scotland was, he believed, a member of
Balliol College. It was here sought to alter a fundamental
article of the Scotch Union. He did net say that everything,
which had been done in 1707 ought rigidly to be adhered
-no—( Hear, hear)—but they ought at least to have high au-
th.-rity in its favour before they made this alteration.
The majority of the petitions from Scotland were,
he believed, against the Right Hon. Gentleman's
proposal. He contended that they ought to have a most we-
. equivocating expression of opinion before they consented to is
adoptiott. ' It must be recollected that there were no religioies
' tests for the admission of students into the Scottish Universi-.
sliest ; and were they, because the Scottish Universities had
VisrOwli their doors open to students, to sever the only link
which" remained to connect the religion of Scotland with the
Estiblisliea Church? He, therefore, called upon the House .o-
-• eonsideit bow far it would interfere with the principles and fee -
!"-- ins Of the' eEstattlished•Church of Scotland, from which t
ily
'"' Right Hon•Gentlemtinhadseceded, but to which the majors •
of the people of Seottand• were still attached. He should give
his must decided ojepesition tb the motion.
•... Mr: BAN.NERNIAN thought that the Government ought
to alibi, the Bill to be introduced and printed, so that the people
.of Stotland might have kh4opportunity of expressing their
opinions' upon it. Henentilii'vote fei the motion of the Right
nion. Member icit Peeth."-"; ' - e '
‘Min- MACKENZIE eiti it a leile to understand. upon whit
ardundt this Motten- *as` briitight forward. It could only be
lustifitnny a uhaidmotit dettlitid' from the people of Scotland'
ie ?tad not Ireird 'df aliSntu)ch.detaandnand he would eppt sh .
the mogeNe. '"! •- e' , et , :„. , , . I •
Mr. P. • le!, 'STEWART ''-ihritideied that it was a great of couri.esy,tdditirdn'thg'.'peepte''nt Scotland on the
'
part of the Goieenment iitittit4' supporters, togive a direct ne
gative to die meaSure 'Of 'Ms. Right Am.:Friend. The test; :
which had been'so tang indperatiee, teal 'now to be enforced'
thereby excluding two-thirds of ' the people of Scotland from '
• the position of teachers in the 'Universities. He was himself I
• on* of those who hadbericointiellecl to leave the Establishment
dud to join the Free Choral; but he wouldnever lift, his band
or raise hit•voiee to injure the Established Church. He had
always need his privilege as a Olean Ivlth a view to inpport the
Established Church. 'He tiirgid the House and the
Government to allow- thiS Bill to proceed,
,a)-id. to
give the people of '"Scotland 'an opportunity, of
expressing their opinions upon it. On' the other side. of. the
House, new-born zeal in favour of 'the" Union had displayed
itself, which -he' had in vain ihvoked last year. He had not
expected the opposition which wafiitv'effered to the Bill, but
he intreated • the Right Hon. Gent/enetoi opposite to alloW the
Bill to-go through the first reading, and then to take the opi-
nions of the people of Scotland !pop it. •
Mr. COLQUHOUN-would not.ll`ive addressed the House
on this subject had he not once had the honour to occupy an
honorary situation in a Scotch University, similar to that
which was now held by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite ;
and he was very anxious lest the vote he was about to give
should be misinterpreted. One thing had been admitted
throughout the discussion by all the Members who had spoken.,
With one exception, they all said that it was necessary to have,
some test- in the Scottish Universities as well as in the Eng-i
bah Universities, in order to prevent the professors of a•
University connected with the State from becoming declaimers'
and agitators against a Church also connected with the State.
The Right Hon. Gentleman had proposed to substitute a
negative test, for the positive test at present provided by the
law. ' -Now, the Hon, Member for Leith, the Hon. Member
for Renfrew, and other Hon. Members who had speken on the
other side, had told them that they never touched the Presby-
terian Church of Scotland without doing it an injury ; that
never had awinpiecopalian Parliament meddled with the Church
of Scotland without doing it harm ; and yet the Right Hon
Gentleman wished them tonlealwith this question by displace.
ing the old test for a netsione. He would. be prepared to fol-
low the Right lion. Gentleman's lead if he could show any
case of persecution, or wiong, or grievance. Many cases had
been cited, but there was no instance of any one who had been
. excluded by this test. . They
had heardo fOxford ofone of the most
.eminent scholars of the University (Sir D. K.
'Sandford) who had been removed to a •chair at Glasgow.
'They had heard of eminent members of the University
.of Cambridge, who had been elected to professorships in Gl"-
:gow—the same-was the case in Edinburgh. All -these gen
tlemen were Episcopalians—they made no secret of the;
opinions--they continued in the free exercise of their religion,
and yet to them the test was not applied. It was natural
that after the recent excitement which had existed in Scotland
irritating polemical diseussions should arise. The case of
Dr. Brewster was me,ntioned. Why, it appeared that the
eitmost that the Presbytery of St. Andrew's could do would be
its excommunicate him, a sentence which probably would not
sit very heavily upon him, but they could not remove him
from his Professorship, or from his office of Principal of the
University of St. Andrew's. Again, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, as Lord Rector of Glasgow, had proposed to bold a
visitation, mid some member of the Senate had defied him,
but he had held his visitation. They had threatened him
that he should not be Lord Rector, hehad threatened them to
bring them before Parliament. He had carried his threat into
execution ; they had not been able to do so by their threat.
As long as these tests were merely used to- prevent scientific
professors from mixing in unseemingly theological discussion,
to prevent them from going about haranguing on the subject of
She Free Church, he could see no harm in retaining them, but
If they should ever be used as an instrument of oppression, or
of individual persecution, then he should be of opinion that the
time had come for re-considering the Act by which they were
established. Henhought that if the Right Hon. Secretary of
State wes of opinion that the introduction of this Bill would do
harm to the ,Presbyterian Church of Scotland, and that it ought
rn
to be suiner;:inndrapesen of, he
i
was perfectly right n having
the questilandannissed at once.
Mr. HIIME thneught that all tesun 'rich as those to which
allusion hat( been twade in the dehate4ought to be abolished.
How was it possible:„..to know senate ; e this test had
kept out ? The Upet4sities of Siar ‘
" • ---zeNe n i e ne7,-
-

zPi, a. u

id were n:

ER-