The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-24 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 24, 1845.

Mr. GISBORNE contended that the Committees were
the proper tribunals before which to decide this question,
and it was only five weeks ago that this House had made
a resolution to that effect. _ _ _

that the Admiralty did not approve of officers interfering with '
what they considered to be under their peculiar province
and superintendence.—(Hear, hear.) In his opinion, how-
ever, the Admiralty ought to be obliged to officers
when they came forward and pointed out what they thought to
constitute defects in the vessels to which they were destined,
and in which frequently their lives and honour were at stake.
He, for his own part, would be more ready to bestow praise
than blame on the Admiralty, and he was sure they would
give him the credit of having no evil design in thus finding
fault. The experimental squadron was about to sail, and the
Admiralty had given special orders as to the construction of
those vessels. He would request that strict inquiries should be
made as to the exact quantity of stores which those ships would
hold. He had been informed that vessels built by Sir Wm.
Symonds were capable of containing more stores than any other.
Each of these ships had been built on a different principle, and
he trusted that a correct account would be taken of the amount
in water and provisions that was stored in each. If that were
done, Sir W. Symonds would have an opportunity of contrast-
ing the comparative qualifications of each. A report should
then be drawn up, and transmitted to the Admiralty, and that
ship in which it appeared the greatest quantity of stores could
be stowed without deteriorating from its sailing powers was,
without doubt, the best ship, and would afford a correct model
for the construction of others. He would wish to impress this
view of the case on the consideration of the Admiralty.
The subject to which he would next refer was that of steamers,
a most important question. When the present Board came
into office in 1841, their attention was very early called to the
construction of steam-beats. He could not say that their
predecessors had shown much skill in the formation of steam
men of-war, but still he considered it was better attended to
by them than at present. The late Board' contented them-
selves with building steam corvettes, with one gun ahead, one
astern, and two adeck. They attempted two frigates—the
Cyclops and the Dolphin. They had them formed with port-
holes, but when it was attempted to man them with long guns,
it was found that the port-holes were under water ; in fact,
the frigates were perfectly incapable of carrying such guns
at all. If they were not capable of being used as steam-
frigates, he asked the reason why they were built 300 or 400
tons larger, in order to carry the same weight of metal as
steam-vessels ? When the present Board of Admiralty came
into office, they got a large grant of money to build steam men-
of-war. The Firebrand was the first one laid down by them.
The Hon. Gentleman opposite, the Secretary, would recollect
his going to see the experimental squadron; and he knew
what was the opinion of the Captain of the Firebrand on that
occasion. He (Sir Charles Napier) hoped that he would
frankly and honestly state what the opinion of Captain Corry
was, without any subterfuge or reservations.—(Laughter. )
He hoped that in giving it there would be no going
about the bush.—( Renewed laughter and cheers.) It was
right that they should know, and he (Sir Charles Napier)
wished himself particularly to know from the Hon. Gentle-
man if the boilers and paddles were not above the water, if it
were possible to man with great guns in heavy weather, and
whether the manning of the stern-ports did not block up the
cabin so as to render it unfit to live in from defective ventila-
tion—whether the captain was not obliged to go into another
place, or on to the deck for a mouthful of fresh air ? They
had therefore tried the Firebrand, and failed
Mr. CORRY—The Firebrand was laid down by the late
Admiralty.
Sir CHARLES NAPIER—The more shame to them. He
now came to the Retribution. He had been aboard, and ex-
amined her, and though he had not seen her with her stores
and provisions aboard, yet he believed she was like all the
others, so constructed as, when fully equipped, to be com-
pletely immersed in water. She was larger than the frigates
were in the late war, yet so constructed as to render it impos-
sible for her to carry heavy guns on the main deck. The
steam-boilers were so exposed, that a shot fired into the ma-
chinery would immediately blow her up. The next he came
to was the Gladiator. He had also been aboard of her, and
she was exactly the same. Her engines and boilers were high
and exposed in the most dangerous manner. The Samson
appeared to him to be the only steamer constructed to be really
useful. Her boilers were lower than the others, her engines
better made, and eenerally she was better adapted for the pur-
poses of war. The Retribution was built in 1840, and would
the House believe that the builder, or whoever else had the
superintendence and getting up the plans, actually in her con-
struction forgot to give her any stern ports at all ; and the
guns had to be mounted on carriages in the clumsiest manner
—in a sort of up-and-go-kick style, in order to keep them to
overlook the bulwarks. The whole thing was perfectly ab-
surd, and: he called upon the Admiralty for a full explana-
tion. The three steamers, the Avenger, the Dragon, and the
Centaur now building, were not too far advanced to be chanted,
if the builders, or whoever else had the super-
intendence of them, were instructed by the Govern-
ment to make the necessary alterations. Without this. if they
were called into action, they would be found totally inefficient.
The present Admiralty had allowed him to construct a steam-
boat upon what he conceived to be correct principles, and he
had applied himself to the subject for many months. He had
acquired information from builders and engineers on the sub-
ject, and he had come to the conclusion that there was no hope
of an improvement so long as the Admiralty kept to themselves
the management of this department. The Queen's yacht was
a steam-vessel of which he had not spoken before.
When she was first completed, it was discovered she
could not steer at all. She was altered, and upon a second trial
she succeeded better, though she was far from being in an
efficient state. She was so badly constructed that they were
obliged to place 100 tons of ballast in her, in addition to the
weight of her machinery. She was a second time ordered for
doctoring, and instead of her being up at Woolwich for that
purpose she was sent round from that place to Portsmouth,
while her boilers, which had been taken oat there, were sent
round after her, at an expense of 6001. He had asked
for a return of the enormous expense incurred in
the construction of this ship, anti though he had not
yet got it, he could prove what he stated to be
true. He had now explained at great length his views
on the construction of the ships of the navy, and he would
now ask of what use would such steam-vessels be in case of
war ? He would ask the Admiralty, what would be the effect
if the Terrible. for instance, was put in an action? The Srst
shot through her, he would bet ten thousand guineas, would
go through the steam-engine, and render her entirely useless.
But were the boilers placed below the water, the machinery
would be perfectly secure. In the former case, he would not
go on board for any sum of money, as he would be certain to
come out absolutely boiled.—( Great laughter.) Supposing
that instead of a period of profound peace, as at present, they
were at war, and that such steamers were ordered to attack a fort
or battery, what would be the result ? Why, he was sure the
engineers would not stay below after the first shot. And he
thought that they would be acting quite right, for he would
not himself go down under such circumstances, as he would
have no disposition to be boiled. Officers entered the service
to run the chance of being shot at by guns, or attacked by
swords and similar weapons ; but not for the purpose of being
boiled.—( Loud laughter and cheers.) It was no part of the
contract of officers to be placed in the position of being blown
up upon the firing of the first shot. To place such steam-
boats before a battery would be perfectly useless. He would
te.l Hon. Gentlemen opposite that his conduct in opening up
this question had done a great deal of good,
Sir G. COCKBURN—A great deal of harm.
o alone was these matters to be remedied.
Sir CHARLES NAPIER said he did not think so. He
never saw or knew any good done without standing up in the
sTnahmoius:aegaißntadytiaoagngiitthaatatidinng the question, or by the press doing the
already done great good, and the effect
would be to have the ships in future better built and better
manned. But they must have a man who could give the whole
of his attention to the construction of vessels—a man to
whom the whole responsibility of the matter could be
intrusted ; allowing the Admiralty to act in the ca-
pacity of the old naval Board. Let them lock at
France, with her enormous steam fleet,
of containing
2,000 notmostc,ifaing
2al, all of
them,26
and capablemidst of profound peace,
makingarsenals
Cherbourg, constructing basins at St.
troops
Mallow's, capable of holding 200 steam-boats, besides forming
similar works at Havre and Calais. He thought rewards
more 0t
; feet
and,
in long,
the
should be held out by the Admiralty for ingenuity and enter-
prise to discover some mode of preventing the possibility of
accidents to boilers and the more intricate machinery of steam-
boats. Such a course would lead to increased safety, and entail
commensurate advantages on the country. He thanked the
House for the attention with which they had heard him. He
had considered it his duty to bring the matter before their
notice, and he trusted its benefits would not be found wanting.
Mr. SOM ES regretted that the Gallant Member for Mary-
lebone should have deemed it consistent with his duty to dis-
parage the present Board of Admiralty arid its attempts to
promote the interests of the service. He had been connected
with steam-ship building for several years, and was, there-
fore, enabled to speak with some confidence on the subject. In
the Terrible, of 1,800 tons, which he had had an opportunity
of inspecting that day, no difficulty was felt in having their
guns on the main deck, and in fact to all vessels constructed
on a similar plan, the same observation was applicable. Besides,
the Gallant Member should recollect that steam-ship building
was as yet but in its infancy. Would he, ten years ago, have
asked the Board of Admiralty to construct a fleet of fifty steam-
vessels? The most important improvements had been intro-
duced since that period, and the Archimedian screw, which,
doubtless, would supersede every other method of steam power,
had but within the last few monthsbeen satisfactorily completed.
With respect to the extent of the steam fleet of this empire, the
Hon. Member should recollect that it was not only the 104 al-
ready in the navy, but the 150 steam vessels in the merchant
service which could be made serviceable in case of emergency,
and taking into consideration that and other concurrent circum-
stances, he thought the kind of discussion so repeatedly intro-
duced by the Gallant Commodore calculated to injure rather
than promote the interests of the country.
Captain PECHELL said that he could not at all un-
derstand how any Member could designate such discus-
sions injurious. Such an argument was as new as the
position of the Hon. Member who had come so opportunely to
the support of the Admiralty. He agreed with that Gentleman
that the English navy was able to compete with any in the
world, but it was not only necessary that a ship should be able
to chase an enemy but also to escape; and with the overhang-
ing sterns, it was absolutely dangerous to use the guns unless
specially arranged for the purpose. He thought steam-vessels
should be sent out with the experimental squadron now fitting ;
their capabilities for towing heavy and dismantled vessels should be
tested, and every trial given for putting their qualifications, as
well as defects, beyond dispute. As to the line-of-battle ships
intended to go out during the present season, four had been
prepared at Plymouth, appearing in rotation at Portsmouth one
by one. There they had been taken into dock, and been cleaned
so as to reduce their draught to 22 feet. Why this had not
been done at Plymouth it was not for him to say. There was
amply sufficient water at that port. In fact, the San Josef had
been sent there solely on account of the depth of water she re-
quired, and the accommodation afforded almost exclusively in
that harbour. He recommended the adoption of a home for
the reception of seamen, so that ships might be readily manned
without the pernicious interference of the class of men termed
crimps. Such a course had been pursued by the Messrs.
Green for the manning of their ships, and having proved
eminently successful, was well worthy the consideration of the
Admiralty.
Mr. L. CORRY must repeat what he had before af-
firmed, that the practice of uniformly depreciating the naval
service of this country, and elevating others in comparison,
was fraught with the utmost mischief ; it must tend to dis-
courage the energy of the seamen, hitherto so celebrated for
their courage and perseverance, and eventually entail harm
both on the service and the country.
Sir GEORGE COCKBURN was astonished that the
Hon. Member for Brighton should have cast an unfounded
insinuation on the Admiralty, and. an unwarrantable attack
on his Friend the Member for Dartmouth. He, for one,
rather felt obliged to the latter gentleman for his kind tes-
timony to the efficiency of the navy, and he thought the
House would concur in his sense of obligation, especially
considering the experience and independence of the authority.
He had not been in a hurry to answer the Gallant
Commodore, because he had
done so again and again before.
They had been making in the navy many experiments, and they
were going to try the rotatory engines, and he was in hopes
that shortly they would be enabled in all vessels to use the
screw. The only difficulty they had to contend with in the
screw was when a vessel had got a head wind to contend with.
The Hon. Gentleman then went on to argue that the Admi-
ralty were not deserving of the aspersions that had been made
against them, that they had done all they could to place the
navy of England in a proper condition, and to redeem the neg-
lect of their predecessors in office. With respect to the steam.
ship, the Victoria and Albert, his firm belief was, that she
was as fine a vessel as ever existed, and she was
not to be decried, because in a gale she had not answered her
helm in coming from Scotland. In consequence of that, it had
been thought right to make some alterations in her construe-

tion, which he was in hopes would have the effect of putting an
end to all further complaints. Upon the whole, the Admiralty
did not deserve the assertions that had been made against them.
Mr. HUME considered that the House ought to consider
itself under obligations to those who pointed out any evils con-
nected with the navy. If the statements of the Gallant Com-
modore were correct, no one could doubt that there were many
evils that ought to be put an end to. He thought the Admi-
ralty ought to consider well before they put the country to an
expense of upwards of one million sterling. He believed that
what had been stated by the Gallant Commodore was calculated
to put her Majesty's navy in a much better condition than it
was at present. They might say what they pleased, but his
opinion was, that the navy of England was now fit to cope with
the whole world. He was against any increase in the navy, but
if any defects could be pointed out, he should be one of the
first to do all in his power to remedy them.
Captain BERKELEY said, that he could not blame the
Hon. and Gallant Member for bringing this matter before the
House. He thought that if, instead of Sir Robert Stopford
having ordered steamers to take line-of-battle ships in tow, he
had ordered the steamers should be brought up at once to the
stations, it would, have obviated the necessity of line-of-battle
ships being brought up. He should certainly support the Hon.
and Gallant Commodore.
Mr. BERNAL would make but a few observations on the
question before the House. He should certainly support the
view which his Hon. and Gallant Friend had taken on this
question. Unless they were to prepare certain mathematical
lines on which their war steamers should be built, in order to
bring the principle of ship building to a certainty, he thought
that the observations of the Hon. and Gallant Commodore
were not ill-founded. Some ten or eighteen years ago the
necessity of steam-vessels being employed in naval warfare was
brought before the notice of the House, but it was only within
the last five years that they had adopted steamers at all.
The House then went into Committee.

Mr. WARBURTON said he concurred in the view
of the Noble Lord (Howick), and would support
his proposition. They were bound to protect the public by
enacting that the rates should not exceed a certain standard.
He, therefore, entirely agreed with the Noble Lord.
Sir G. GREY said he considered the efforts of the Com-
mittee, as regarded the rate of charges, useless—in fact they
fixed them higher than the railways ordinarily charged.
Sir G. CLERK said the Committee had taken a great
deal of pains to ascertain the proper rates of toll. If the House
were to adopt the general regulations suggested by the Noble
Lord they would inflict a great injustice on the Railway Corn•
panies. The resolution of the Noble Lord was inconsistent
with the Act of last session. _ _

Mr. LABOUCHERE considered the amendment a very
important one, and thought the public would not excuse
them if they did not support it. The rates adopted upon Irish
railroads was 30. a mile, and:the rate assigned for railways in
the manufacturing districts was equally high and exorbitant.
Railway Companies bad a great influence in that House,
which was brought to bear by a system of canvassing, and,
therefore, they need be under no apprehension that in any ge-
neral measure they would injure railway schemers or railway
proprietors.--( Hear.) The House was very chary of the in-
terests of those proceedings. They should keep in their hands
the means, not of exacting unfair conditions from railway capi-
talists, but of benefiting the public at large. Some remedy
should be devised to deal with the extraordinary amount of
railway business. He would support the motion of his Noble
Friend the Member for Sunderland, but thought it should not
be made a standing but only a sessional order.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said, the motion of the
Noble Lord was a most important one, but he thought too
general and extensive in its terms. He was of opinion that
the most erroneous notions had been taken on the subject.
He thought that if there was a regulation made as to the
charges to be made on railways, the result would be that a
higher rate of charge would be made than took place now. He
did not think that the House was prepared for so great a pro-
position as that of the Noble Lord. He must certainly, there-
fore, vote against it.
Viscount EBRINGTON thought he should best pursue his
duty by moving that the debate should be adjourned to Monday
next.

On the vote of 1,199,1.111. being proposed for naval otores,
Sir C. NAPIER rose and said that he objected to the mode
in which steam-vessels were manned, and he should, therefore,
object to the vote which had just been proposed.
Mr. HUME objected to the vote, which, in the present cir-
cumstances of the country, he considered extravagant. He wished
to know whether any experiment had been made respecting Sir
W. Burnett's invention for the prevention of dry rot in
canvass.

Mr. SOMES said that 40,000 yards of canvass had been
prepared on his premises, on Sir W. Burnett's process.
After a few words from Captain Pechell, Mr. Somes, and
Mr. M. O'Ferrall,
Lord INGESTRE made a few observations as to the trials
of the experimental brigs. He wished to say that there were
three selected, and the result was anything but satisfactory,
either as to their construction or powers of sailing.
Mr. M. O'FERRALL defended the character and conduct
of the Surveyor of the Navy in reference to the part he took in
regard to the experimental cruise.
Sir G. COCKBURN said the reason the ships in ques-
tion had been selected for the experimental eruise was because
of the recommendation of Sir W. Symonds, who had named
those vessels as those best acquainted with the quarter they
were sent to.

Mr. W. PATTEN seconded the motion. If the debate
were adjourned to Monday there would be time for duly con-
sidering this subject.
Mr. PARKER suggested that it would be better to with-
draw the motion and amendment, and bring them forward as a
substantive motion on Monday.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM inquired if it was intended that the
proposed revision would be prospective or would be retro-active
in its effect.

Lord HOWICK would make it apply to all existing com-
panies who came for fresh powers. The number of Railway
Bills which had been brought forward for the first time this
session was so great, and all more or less were competing lines
with existing companies, and he was perfectly satisfied that
this competition would compel the existing companies to re-
duce their rates of charge.
Mr. PAKINGTON thought the motion of his Hon.
Friend the Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire (Mr. S.
Wortley) ought to be allowed to pass. The amendment should
then be brought forward as a substantive motion on Monday.
Captain BERKELEY said it appeared to him that the pro-
position of the Hon. Member for the West Riding of York-
shire would be a waste of time instead of a saving of it.
The debate was then adjourned to Monday.
Several petitions for and against Railway Bills were then
presented.
Mr. BELLEW presented a petition in favour of the Dublin
and Belfast Junction Railway.
Sir V. BLAKE said he wished to make an explanation.—
(Cries of " Order.") He thought he was in order.
The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member could only give no-
tices of motion.
. .

Sir V. BLAKE then said, he gave notice that he would, on
the 10th of June, move two resolutions. The first, that it was
improper, and inconsistent with the usages of Parliament, that
the avowed enemies of her Majesty's Government should occupy
the Ministerial benches.—( Laughter.) The second resolution
he would upon that day move was, that as lion. Members were
in the habit of using language inconsistent with the usages of
civilised society, and had been guilty of the highest disrespect
to the House, sinh Hon. Members should be in future, upon
using such language, be reprimanded by the Chair, and if
found incorrigible, ought to be forthwith expelled.
Lord JOHN MANNERS postponed his motion upon mort-
main law to the 3d of June.

Mr. HUME moved for the report of the last Pia Jury.
After a few words from Sir G. CLERK, the motion was
agreed to.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petition from an individual,
who complained that he had been convicted on a frivolous
charge of a seditious and revolutionary character. He had
already'called the attentionof the Lord Advocate to the sub-
ject. The petition contained a long detail of grievances, into
which he would not enter at present. The petitioner's name
was Johnstone.

Mr. M. MILNES presented a petition from the New Zea-
land Society, signed by every member of it, and complaining
of the manner in which their claims had been dealt with by
Captain Fitzroy and by the Colonial-office. He begged to say
that the New Zealand Society was quite a distinct t►ody from
the New Zealand Company.
Captain BERKELEY presented a petition against the Mer-
chant Seamen's Bill.
CALL OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. HUME said, as he had understood from the Clerk
of the House that there was a sufficient number of Members to
attend the Railway Committees, and to attend those which
would be yet constituted, he would not press the matter further,
but let his motion drop. Such was the wish, he believed, of the
House generally, but if there had been any necessity for a
larger attendance of Members, in order to discharge the public
business, he would most certainly have pressed his motion.
Notwithstanding the backward state et public business, there
had been no House on the previous evening, though there was
a sufficient number of Members attending the Committees up
stairs to constitute a House. He thought that when that was
the case in future those Members should be summoned by the
Sergeant:at-Arms,

The SPEAKER was understood to say that the appearance
of the Sergeant •at-Arms with his mace before a Committee
would not only terminate its sittings upon that day, but alto-
gether.—( Laughter. )
Mr. ESCOI T gave notice that he would on Monday ask a
question relative to the dismissal of Lieut. Holies from the East
India Company's service.
ACADEMICAL EDUCATION (IRELAND).
_ .

Sir R. INGLIS requested of the Right Hon. Baronet to
postpone the second reading of this Bill. He made the request
at the instance of a great number of individuals, who felt
deeply interested in thy measure.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that as the Irish Members on both
sides of the House were desirous that some time should elapse
between the first and second reading, he would postpone the
second reading to Friday next.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

It wns then moved that the House, at its rising, do adjourn
until Monday next.
POOR-LAW AMENDMENT (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Mr. HUME hoped the Government would postpone the
second reading of the Poor-law Amendment (Scotland) Bill,
in order that the people of Scotland might have time to ex-
preFs their opinions upon so important a subject.
The LORD-ADVOCATE said he would postpone it to
Friday next.
Mr. HUME said that period was too near.
Sir R. PEEL said it could then be further postponed.

Mr. M. BELLEW put a question regarding the manage-
ment of the Dublin Scientific Societies, which was not audible.
Sir T. FREMANTLE said he had not been able sufficiently
to give his attention to the subject to be in a conditim to give
an answer at present. Ee would inquire more particularly
into the matter.

The vote was agreed to.
The sum of 486,4861. was voted for the purpose of the dock-
yard, Sir C. Napier, Capt. Bowles, Mr. Corry, and Captain
Pechell having taken part in the debate.
The sum of 19,7581. was then voted for the medical purposes
of the Navy.
On the motion of Mr. CORRY, 118,1071. was voted for the
miscellaneous purposes of the service.
A vote of 159,6401. was then proposed fur the half-pay of the
officers of the navy.
Sir C. NAPIER took that opportunity of calling the atten-
tion of the Hon. and Gallant Officer opposite to the position
of the masters in the navy. The masters were most important
persons in ships of war. Captains and Admirals could not
conduct their ships without having efficient masters. If the
name of master could be done away with altogether, it would
be most advantageous to the service. Let them hold commis-
sion as lieutenants, and, passing a similar examination, be en-
dowed with equal rank and prospects of promotion.
Sir G. COCKBURN agreed with the Gallant Officer in
considering the masters as one of the most valuable classes in
the navy, hut wholly differed from him respecting the position
in which he would place them.
Captain ROUS said it was his firm belief that not five out of
six midshipmen who had passed their examination as lieute-
nants during the last ten years, were capable of properly filling
the vocations to which they had been called. And he felt sa-
tisfied they were not competent to perform the office of master.
If his opinion was acted on, the office of master in the navy
would be abolished altogether.
Sir C. NAPIER agreed with the Hon. Member who had
just spoken. Any one who spoke the truth was always ac-
cused of crying down the profession.
Mr. WILLIAMS called the attention of the House
to the fact that in the year 1818, on the close of
the war, the sum expended on retired officers was 1,230,0001. ;
it now in a time of peace amounted to 1,377,0001., showing a
much larger half-pay, after thirty years of peace, than at the
close of th war. The widows' pensions in 1.822 were 120,000/.,
in the present vote, 212,000/., nearly double the amount, and
it did appear to him very strange that they should have upon
the half pay list 4,200 widows receiving pensions.
Mr. BROTHERTON moved that the House report
progress.
Mr. HUME thought the statement of the Gallant Officer
was very important, and required serious attention. The half-
pay list of the navy evidently required reformation. Deserving
men were neglected in the navy, whilst patronage did every
thing.
Admiral DUNDAS thought the examination spoken of by
the Gallant Officer sufficiently severe.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM had listened with attention to the
speech of the Gallant Officer, but could not agree with
much that had been stated by him. The Gallant Commodore
opposite had spoken much of the want of proper discipline and
efficient training in the navy, but a circumstance had occurred
within the last six months which, in his opinion, negatived such
a supposition. A distinguished officer had lately returned to
this country, In whose judgment and integrity ke had the fullest
confidence. He alluded to Sir William Parker, commander of
the Chinese expedition. On his return he (Sir J. Graham)
asked ,him what was his opinion of the merits of
all ranks of the service which had been in that expedition.
Sir W. Parker had assured him that at no time, and under no

circumstances, had officers and men shown so great a know-
ledge of what they had to do as the men and officers in China
had done.—( Hear, hear.)
Captain BERKELEY complained of the manner in whieh
preferments had been made in the naval service by the Go-
vernment. Young men had been put over the heads of old
ores, and party men had been chosen far preferment in pre-
ference to those who held honest opinions.
Sir G. COCKBURN—.The Gallant Officer was speaking
about the experimental squadron, and was asking who was to
have the command. He told the Gallant Officer that it was
not settled; but that his name was amongst those whom he
thought of submitting for the consideration of the Board. The
conversation went on, and he asked the Gallant Commodore if
he would prefer as his ship a three-decker or a two-decker ;
when he had said this be put down the Gallant Commodore's
name with some other names ; these were brought before the
Board of Admiralty and Lord Haddington himself, and when
the Board came to consider those names the name of Hyde
Parker was mentioned. It was at once considered that Ad.
miral Hyde Parker, being an Admiral, was the best person
who could be selected. They did not doubt the gallantry or
the ability of the Hon. Member the Gallant Commodore ; but
he had taken so active a part against the ships of Sir W. Sy-
monds that they gave up the idea of pressing upon him the
command, and thought it would be more satisfactorily and
better done by Admiral Hyde Parker, who was an indifferent
person. This decision was not come to on account of the dif-
ferent party of the Gallant Commodore, but on account of
the part he had taken in that House in abusing the ships
about to be tried, the Albion and Queen especially ; and no
doubt it would be advantageous not to send out a decided
partisan, when they could obtain an indifferent person. When
the Gallant Commodore was told that Admiral Hyde Parker
was chosen, the question he put was, " Is it settled who is to
command the experimental squadron ?" The reply had refer-
ence to his being a party man with regard to the building of
the ships ; there was no allusion to party otherwise than with
reference to that.

Sir C. NAPIER said, that as the Gallant Admiral had told
his story, it was right that he should tell his own. He had
first seen Lord Haddington ; the conversation turned on the
subject of the experimental squadron. He (Sir C. Napier)
then said, " I wish you would give me the experimental
squardron, and I will give you a fair report." Afterwards,
talking about the experimental squadron with the Gallant
Admiral, he had said—" I wish you would give me the com-
mand, and you shall know all about it." The answer of the
Gallant Admiral was—" You are just the very fellow we
want ; you are a straightforward sort of person ; we shall get
the truth from you." The reply was—" If you send me in
command of the experimental squadron, I will tell you the
truth, whether you like it or do not like it." The Gallant
Admiral then said—" What ship would you like ? Would you
like the Canopus ?" He replied—" No; if I choose a ship,
it shall be the St. Vincent ; if I have the command, I must
have such powers as will enable me thoroughly to exercise the
squadron ; I must be allowed such powder and shot by the
Admiralty as will enable me to do it effectually." So secure was
he of the appointment that he went to Capt. Hamilton, and said
—" Sir G. Cockburn tells me that I am to have the command
of the experimental squadron." The Gallant Gentleman
replied, that he did not know whether the Gallant Admiral
had power to say so much, and he (Sir C. Napier) confessed he
thought he had gone too far. When he went back on other
matters, he asked whether it was settled who was to have the
command ; the reply was, " Nothing has been settled yet."
He went again subsequently, he believed about the steam-boats,
and then he was told, in reply to the question whether he was
to have the command, " Ne, they would net hear of your
name ; you are too violent a party man; you will not have it."
There was not a word said about the part he had taken as to
the ships. His rejoinder was, " I am not a party man at all,
and I would have done all I could for you in this instance." He
then wished the Gallant Admiral " Good morning," and that
was all that passed.—( Laughter. )
Captain ROUS, in reference to the complaints of the exami-
nations for lieutenant, and in reference to Admiral Hyde
Parker himself, recollected what had taken place with a mid-
shipman passed by Admiral Hyde Parker. He stuttered so
much he was wholly unfit for his duty; but the only way in
which he could be got rid of was to invalide him. He was,
therefore, brought before three invaliding captains, of whom
this very Admiral Hyde Parker was one, and the Admiral ex-
claimed, " Who the devil passed you ?" The youth's answer
was, " You did." And the Admiral retorted, "'f he more
fool I."—( A laugh.) In his opinion the mates ought to be
examined by the Trinity Board.
Captain PECHELL way very desirous that the vote should
pass, and he would not detain the House by making any ob-
servation which could give rise to discussion. But he must
say, that the money which he asked for, for those seventy
officers, was in equity and justice their own.—( Hear, hear.)
The Chancellor of the Exchequer had possession of that money
and it was the duty of the House to see that it should be re-
stored to them.
After a few words from Sir G. COCKBURN, the vote
was agreed to.
The sum of 89,5401. was then moved for allowances, charges,
and pensions.
In answer to a question by Captain C. BERKELEY,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that
he would bring on the Ordnance estimates on Monday week.
The vote was then agreed to.
Upon the question being put that the sum of 89,0001.
should be granted for the payment of the pensioners, and
91,6731. for defraying the expense of the transit of convicts,
Mr. WARBURTON expressed a hope that a more definite
mode would be adopted in future of distinguishing the Post-
office charge from the navy estimates.
Sir C. NAPIER said he could not understand why the
Post-office charges should be mixed up with the navy estimates
at all.
After some discussion, the vote was agreed to.
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the other orders •f
the day having been disposed of, the House adjourned at half-
past One o'clock.

RHAYADER. THE NANT-Y CAR AND CWM
RWNANT MINES.—Most valuable copper and lead mines
have been discovered and are now worked with enter-
prise and spirit in an isolated district in the county of
Brecon, on the estates of Marmaduke Gwynne, Edward
D. Thomas, and William Morgan, Esqs., under the super-
intendence of Captain Edward Roberts, late of the
Cowarch and other mines in North Wales.—Shrewsbury
Chronicle.