The Sun.
London, England, 1821-04-20 00:00:00

TORFEITED RECOGNIZANCES.

>lr. G. BEN NET, on presenting a Petition from
John. Whitaker and W. Eastwood, complained
of the grievance to which they were subjected by
having their recognizances estreated, although the
Verson, who was a printer, for whom they had
becoMe bail in the sum of 401. had actually ap-
peared in the Court of Clerkenwell, on which
their recoguizances were declared forfeited.
Under what authority of law such a proceeding
took place he (Mr. B.) was quite at a loss to di-
vine. But the Petitioners fithher complained.
that they were not only obliged to pay the amount
of their recognizances, but certain fees to the
ofacers of the :Court. :By what law or autho-
rity such fees:were deMdriaed, he wasalso unable
to discover. But in • order :to, bring. the matter
fully before. the House, he meant to make cer-
tain motions, which would incluide a demand for'
the authority under whickihe.,Clerk of the Peace
for. Niddlesex charged fees f6y the enrolment of
Vehefit Societies.

r. M. A. TAYLOR.6bserved., that there must
be. a great incorrectness in thisitease if the'recog-
izan,ces
,were forfeited, notwithstanding the ap-
pea:mice-in Court of the person for whom the
Petilioners had become responsible. The case
was certainly such as ought to be inquired into.
Mr. BENNET then moved for a Return of all
Fees paid to the Clerk of- the Peace for Middle-
sex, upon forfeited recognizances,: within the
igst three years, stating under what authority or
Roll of Court such Fees were charged; also for
a Return of the Fees paid upon persons bting
brou3ht up for judgment in that County ; and
also ofall Fees charged. upon Prosecutors and
Traversers in each Indictment, and of the Fees
paid to the Clerk of the Peace, upon the Enrol-
ment or Registeringof Benefit Societies. Ordered
accordingly.

SICILY.

Lord W. BENTlNcri.,:,zt.t,e'ilatice of a motion for
the Bth of May, for the production of certain
Papers connected with Sicily.-
Mr. CLIVE brought in a Bill for Regulating the
Tames Police. 'Read a first, and ordered to be
reo. a second time on the 2d of May.
Sir H. P*RNELL presented a Petition from the
i'vienabers of a certain sect of 'Christians at Cork.
entitled Separatists, praying that they might- he
allowed to make affirmations, instead of taking
oaths in Courts ofJustice.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. B. WILBH.AHAM presented a Petition from
the. Parish of Mary-le4ione, against the Metro-
pniis Bill.—Ordered to lie on the Table.
MR. DAVISON'S. CASE.
Mr. HosnOusE rose'to present a Petition, to
which he requested the attention of the House.
It wz-: upon the same subject as that which some
days ttgo he had presented; with respect to the
poser of a Judge to fine a defendant in the
course of making his defence, and which he had
been urged to withdraw, because it was deemed
it,,,adrrrissible, in :consequence of an impression
That there were some words in the Petition which
i4tplied an irregular allusion to the speech of a
Right. Hon. Member in that House.' These words
were therefore omitted in the Petition which he
held in his hand, -and which was. signed by a
number of the respectable inhabitants of West-
rni:kter and London. This Petition did not in-
deed contain any thing against which the .most
scrupulous- person could Make any objection, and
therefore he could not anticipate any resistance
to his motion. Upon the merits of the PetitiOn
or the object it had in view, lie would not then
trouble the House with a9y observation. He
should not indeed. deem it-. proper to enter into
'the subject in the absence of the Solicitor-Gene-
ral, to whom he had not had any opportunity of
giving. notice of his intention to present this Pe-
tition to-day. Seeing the Hon. Member for Sur-
-rep hi his place, he thought it right to toke. this
• opportunity of correcting the misrepresentation
to which that Hon. Member had called his atten-
-tion With regard to the remarkS imputed to him
as to the conduct of the Chairman of the Surrey
Sessions. He had never said, as was alleged,
that-this Magistrate 'had- sanctioned, or been in
goy degree concerned .packing juries, or any
loch improper practice,, but that he was under a
mistake as to the extent of his power to impose a
line upon any ferson in Court. The conception
therefore of the Chairman was quite erroneous.
e (Mr. IL) was indeed. otta,of the last persons
ivlio would avail himself of ilk. situation in that
' .1-firzse, to offend the; feelings or depreciate the
character of any one,out of-it. The.HOn. Mem-
•.ber concluded w,ith giving notice of his intention,
after the holidays, to, tn;ke a substantive motion
with respect to. the power improperly.assumed
by Judges of fitting for contempt.
.•• fir. H. SUMMER thonght he could not better
vindicate. the • continct of the Chairman of the
Quarter Sessions, than by reading to the House
*statementwhich that Gentleman had drawn up
-in consequence of the observationS which had
fallen from the lion. Member for Westminster,
O7a a farmer night. Mr. Harrison admitted that
he -told- Mr. M'Creevey, that if •he pursued the
line of observations which he was addressing to
the Court, he would render himself unfit tO:serVe
on any Jury, and that if he -did not sit. down, he
would fine him. When. Mr.' 'lo4‘reevey. after-
wards called upon him Co eiplain these,expres-
sions, he, told him that- in (Mr. Hacriaon's)
Opinion, he did not possess that temper, which
was requisite for the proper discharge of a-jury-
man's functiOnS ; upon winch Mr. M'Creevey
nidely retorted, that Mr. Harrison stood pre-
ciely in the seine situation, 11' he 116 n. Member
pategyriSed the conduct Of the Chair Man, and
•olterved that the County.of Surrey 'was under
great obligations to him for his services.
• Mr. S. WORTLEY said a few words, which were
net audible in the gallery..
-Mr. Lloanousa said, this petition had no re-
ference to the power of fining for contempt; it

referred onlyln the quettion, whether or not The
Judges had the power of fining a defendant in
the course 'of his defence. With respect to the
conduct of the Chairman, he had never imputed
to him any thing but a mistake as to the extent
of the power which he possessed. He begged to
observe, however, that he knew Mr. M'Creevey,
and that his claim to respectability was fully as
great as that of Mr. Harrison.

Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said, that to assert that a
Court of civil or criminal jurisdiction could not
fine any persons for any contempt or breach of
order, was a most extraordinary doctrine. He
beFeved the power of Courts to fine for contempt
was as indisputable as any point in the laW of
England, for how could they vindicate their au-
thority, if they had not the power to fine ? He
should be glad to know what else they could do.
(Mr. Hobhottse suggested that they might corn-
wit.)—The Hon. Gentleman said they might
commit, and undoubtedly there were cases in
which commitment was necessary, but surely the
more lenient course was to fine. He (Mr. T.)
had no doubt, that the power of fining for con-
tempt was as old as the constitution itself.

Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW said, that all Courts of
Record from the highest to the lowest had the
power both of fining and impisoning for contempt,
mid he believed this was the first time the power
was ever doubted.

Mr. DEx3r.A.N admitted that Courts of Record
had the power both of fining and imprisoning for
contempt, but maintained that fining summarily
might be the severest mode of punillunent which
could be resorted to. If, for instance, an indivi-
dual were taken out of the crowd, and fined to a
large amount, for the amount of the fine was-per-
fiTtly arbitrary, such a punishment might, with
reference to that individual, be tantamount to per-
petual imprisonment.--The Petition was ordered
to lie on the table, and to he printed.
Mr. LUSHINGTON brought up an Account of
the Newspapers published weekly in the Me-'
tropolis. •

Sir- It. WILSON moved for an account of the
number of persons in the Civil, Naval, and Mili-
tary Establishments of Great Britain and Ireland,
possessing two or more commissions, offices, re
tired allowances, or pensions, distinguishing the
names of such persons, the date of the payments,
and the amount of allowances to each.—Ordered.
Lord NUGENT gave notice that he should trove,
on the 7th of May, for a Committee to inquire
into the administration of the Courts of Justice
in. Tobago.

LAND-TAX.
Mr. Holm moved for an account of all assess..
ments of the Laud Tax for London and Middle.
sex for the last ten years, distinguishing the total
amount collected in each year, and stating to what
purposes, and by what authority-, the surplus, il
any, had been appropriated.—Ordered.

SIR T. MAITLAND:
Mr. HATE gave notice
.thathe should submit
to theJlouse after the holidays a motion.relative
to the conduct of Sir T. Maitland;and the general
system of government in the lonian Is
•Mr. RICARoo presented a Petition from Mier7
chants and. Traders trading-to the North:Oe'Eu-
rope, praying that the• Duties on • -COlOji4l deals.
might be diminished, or those on .European deals
be increased.—Ordered to lie on the table and to.
be printed. , • •
. SALARY OF THE JUDGE ADVOCATE..

Mr. Humc rose 16 make two motions ,to the
House with respect to the office -of Judge Advo-
cate. General. • After the discussion WhiCh had
taken place on this. subject the .other night, it
was• not necessary for him •to say much on the
prexent .occasion, He was anxiou3. that .the
Hohse should know as correctly as possible the
amount of the duties whicly-the.Judge Advocate'
had to perform, as far as the number •of...courts
Martial could shew it. The 'salary of that-officer
had been increased froml ,0301. to 2,8001. a year,
on the ground of the increase of his duties aris-
ing from the number of Courts Martial during
the war. He wished to ascertain therefore
whether there- was now any pretence for con-
tinuing that enormous
.salary. his first motion
would be for au account of the Number of Per-
sons in the Army tried by Courts Martial, from
the year 1808 to 1820; and his second for an.
Account of the General Courts Martial held at
Head-quarters in London, Edinburgh, and Dub-
lin, and the -Number of Courts Martial in which
the Judge Advocate General, and his Deputies
in Edinburgh and Dublin, officiated from 1808
to 1820, both inclusive. •

Mr. BECKETT said, that the first motion of the
Hon. Gentleman seemed to be merely a continu-
ation of his motion for Returns- up to the year
'lBOB., He (Mr. B.) had no objection to either
of the motions ; and he only wished to observe,
that there was a little inaccuracy in the terms of
the lion. Gentleman's nation. lie had called
the Deputy Judge Advocate hi Scotland, his
(Mr. Beckett's) deputy, whereas that Officer
was not his deputy, but the'Officer of the Go-
vernment.

Mr. Ift:mE said, that the words, the Deputy
Judge Advocate, might be substituted.
After a jew words from the LORD ADVOCATE,
the motion was agreed to.
Mr. It. MAn:rrs moved, that the several Pe-

titions praying for compensation on the abolition
of Offices in Courts of Justice in Ireland, be re-
ferred to a Select Committee to examine the same,
and' report their opinion thereon.
Mr. WARRE said, that if the principle of en-
tertaining Petitions for compensation on the abo-
lition of Offices were sanctioned, it might lead to
very injurious consequences. Ile trusted the se-
veral claimtwould be rigorously examinea, by the.
Committee.

Mr. R. MARTIN said, he had. by no means
made. up f,is mind as to the admissibility. of the

ADJOURNMENT OF. THE HOUSE:
The CHANCELLOR. of the -ExcqEouEß rose to
move, that the House on its rising Adjourn, ac-
cording to annual custom, to Monday se'nnight;
He should have been glad for the sake of, the

. •
House, and especially for the sake of the Right
Hon. Gentlemen,whom he had the honour to ad-
dress--he might add too for, his own, sake, if he
could, consistently with what he felt to be due to
the public interests, have proposed a longer Ad-
journment. It was essential that the House

should recommence its labours at the earliest 'pe-
riod consistent with the usual practice of the.
House ; and as 'they would lose two or three
Supply days by indulging Members in a longer
recess, he should" move that the House adjourn to
Monday se'nnight.
Mr. CALCRAFT regretted both on account of
the Right Hon. Gentleman in the Chair, and of
the Right. Hon. Gentleman opposite, whose at-
tendance had been very laborions diaring the
Session, that a longer adjournment could not be
afforded.. It would have added greatly to the
convenience of almost every Member. ih that
House; and though he should be sorry to Urge
it if he thought it would be likely to militate
against the public interests, he could not help
remarking that Monday se'nnight was a most in-
convenient day for ,the country gentlemen, as
the Quarter Sessions commenced on that day, and
a large class of Members would consequently be
unable to attend. The King's birth-day, which
must necessarily be a holiday, would also occur
in the week to which the Right Hon. Gentleman
proposed to adjourn. Under all the circumstances
he trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would
have the kindness to reconsider the subject, and
indulge the House by lengthening the recess.
The CHANCELLOR of the EgCHEQUER said, he
ivas aware of the circumstance of the Quarter
Sessions commencing on Monday se'nnight ; but
although that circumstance might prevent the
attendance of some Members, the period which
he proposed for re-commencing their labours, was
that at which the House usually met, and he saw
many reasons under existing circumstances for
not indulging themselves with a longer recess.—
The Motion was then agreed to.
COMMERCIAL INTERCOURSE BETWEEN GREAT
BRITAIN AND IRELAND.
Sir H. PARNELL rose to move for a Committee
to consider the best means of improving the Com-
mercial Intercourse between Great Britain and
Ireland. I. With respect to articles subject to
Excise Duties, where the internal duties were
the same -in both • countries, he should propose
that the present system of drawbacks-and coun-
tervailing duties be done away, and that the ar-
ticles pass free between both countries ;_ and
where the internal duties differed, the difference
only should be the drawback. - 2. As to articles
of Foreign and Colonial produce, he wished the
same regulations to be adopted in respect to
drawbacks and countervailing duties. Ile main-
tained that the whole trade between the two
countries ought to be carried on in the same man-
ttet as the coasting trade. As to articles subject
to the. Union 'Duties, he should propose that those
duties be repealed on all articles not made in Ire-
land, and continued for a short time only on
those few articles which are made with the aid of
capital and machinery. He proceeded to say,
that one of the objects he had in view was that
some regulation should be established to relieve
persons travelling between Great Britain and Ire-
land from being subject to have their luggage
searched, which was very vexatious and inconve-
nient, particularly when such persons were under
the necessity of bejng at their destination on a
liven day, within a short period, as in the Lime-
ridc case, where twenty persons were ordered to
attend the House of Commons from that city,
within ten days from the date of the order. He
would have the search only to take place when
there were circumstances to justify suspicion,
which would sufficiently secure the Revenue from
fraud. Another object of the greatest import-
ance which he would propose, was the as-
similation of the currency of the two coun-
tries, but that was not the time to enter into a
detail of it ; but it was impossible that both
countries should be pla&A on an equal commer-
cial footing while the difference of the currency
produced a fluctuating value in commercial com-
modifies, and threw business `mostly into the
hands of little brokers and exchange dealers. If
-a Committee was appointed, he would propose
that there should be-an alteration in the copper
coin, which would have the effect of removing
the difficulties; on the whole, he was convinced
that if the commercial arrangements which
he wished to submit to a Committee, were
adopted, they would have the effect of rais-
ing the character and wealth of Ireland. He
concluded by moving, that a Select Committee
be appointed to inquire into the Commercial In-
tercourse between Great Britain and Ireland.•
Mr. GaEsrEt.r.." seconded the motion. He

thought it most desirable that some arrange-
ments of the nature proposed should be acceded
to, more particularly that for assimilating the
Irish currency to that of Great Britain, as. it
would have the effect of simplifying financial ac-
counts. Ile had conversed with several intelli-
gent and practical Irishmen on the subject, and
although there was some difference of opinion
among them, yet .on the whole he hatkreason to
believe that the general opinion of practkal and
well-informed men was in favour of such assimi-

lation. By means of it, they would get rid of
all that machinery-which made the exchange be-
tween the two countries so complex. Tie had
also reason to believe, that the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer) had, and the Government had for some
time, a measure of the kind in contemplation.
The CHANCELLOR of the ExcnEuu Eft said, that
he agreed with the lion. Baronet so far, as to
think that it was highly desirable the subjects
which he mentioned should come under the con-
.

sideration of the House; but to undertake a plan
of the kihd proposed in the present Session could

only excite. anxiety and alarm in the minds of
persons concerned in the trade between the two
countries without producing any•practical result.
It was necessary to hear the objections to be;
urged.against the -.plan, as well as the arguments
in its. favour. It was now so far advanced in the
Session, that no practical result could be accom--
plished by a. Committee of Parliament,
.but he so
far
.coincided with the object of the lion..Baro-.
net's motion, as to think, that upon due notice
given to the parties concerned, they should pre-.
pare their several statements, and 'on the evidence

submitted, the Parliament .1, iwuld undertake the

investigation. By these preparatory inquiries, it
was likely that a considerable mass of evidence
would be procured, and in the next Session of
Parliament some practical result might be ob-

tained; ale Wobld aierefore move an Amenarneht
to that effect. As to `the assimilation of the cur-
rency, it was one of great importance and deli-
cacy, and could not be undertaken without great
disadvantage, at the Moment of approaching cash
payment of the two Banks. It would have the
effect of agitating,the publie mind, and could not
take away the necessity of exchange, as it de,
pended on the course of payments and remit-
tances ; with respect to the Union Duties, he
believed there was great jealousy on the subject
among the manufacturers of Ireland ; it would
be therefore far better to postpone the measure
until both parties were prepared. He concluded
by moving, as an Amendment, " that the House
would, early in the next session, take into con-
sideration the Duties and Regulations affecting
the Trade between Great Britain and Ireland."
Mr. DAWSON thought it a hardship that those
proprietors who chose to reside in Ireland, should
not be allowed to have their goods front England ;
there ought, in his opinion, to be no restriction on
the trade between the two countries, and the
first Capitalist in Ireland on the Woollen Trade
agreed with him, as did other Manufacturers.
Mr. Pim.cies observed, that the protecting
Duties were a serious evil in the Trade with
Ireland. .lie thought the House ought to be
pledged to inquiry at the earliest opportunity.
Mr. CLansToxe thought the pledge given by
the Right Honourable Gentleman of taking the
subject into consideration next Session, ought to
be sufficient to satisfy the country.—They were
now enabled to ascertain the effect of the Protect-
ing Duties by an experiment of 20 years.
. Mr. CHICHESTER expressed himself anxious
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should say
something decisive with respect to the Protecting
Duties ; to know his real opinion on the subject
would be a matter of satisfaction.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXpIEQUER said, that
by the Act of last year, those duties were re-
newed, not permanently, but with a view to their
gradual expiration. Had they ceased at once the
consequences would have been very injurious ;
he thought, undoubtedly, an end ought to be
put to the system of Protection, but then it ought
to take place in the gradual way provided for by
the Act, to prevent the shock which would other-
wise be given to the interests of the Irish Manu-
facturers. 4,
General HART supported the motion ; he stat-
ed, that the interests of Ireland required immedi-
ate consideration and relief.
Mr. C. II UTCHINSON opposed the motion, and
complained of the manner in which the Honoura-
ble Baronet had thought proper to bring on
this l oposition. • He had been deferring it
from day to day, for many weeks, and he
came forward now, after those duties .had been
settled by a solemn and deliberate act of last
year, which provided for their gradual abo-
lition, to endeavour to put an end to them by
a sudden measure, for which the persons most
concerned Were totally unprepared. He did
not see why Trish manufactures should be
treated• on a different principle from those of
Great Britain, and it was never known that
where a solemn act of trade was passed to pro-
tect British manufacturers in one year, it was
abrogated in the next. He cared not whether
the principle of, protecting duties was correct or
vicious; he objected to the motion, because it
went to remove, by a rapid measure, regulations
which were so recently put by Parliament on a
footing of slow but defined expirations. It was
not only the manufacturers who were concerned
in this question, but merchants and dealers, and
he would protest against their interests being
treated di&rently from those of any branch of
the-mercantile body in this country. The sub-
ject of the protecting duties the lion. Bart. had
slipped in among the other six subjects which his
propositions embraced, and it was the principal
one which he had in view, though he did not
think fit to make it appear so. Ile (Mr. IL) had
advocated the protecting duties the last time in
which they came before the House, although an
unpopular measure; but if the-principle of pro-
tecting duties was impolitic and unwise, why was
it that the Aric'e President of the Board of Trade
(Mr. Wallace) was then in the House, for the
purpose of procuring the enactment of such duties
relative to the Canadian Colonies ? He then ad-
verted to a Petition which held in his hand,
on this subject, from Liverpool, and read some
parts of it, in confirmation of his argument.
Sir. H. PARNELL made a short reply, observ-
ing, that his object was not, as seemed to be ap-
prehended by his Hon. Friend. who had just sat
down, to make an immediate change in the laws
regulating the commercial intercourse between
the two countries, but merely that Parliament
should enter into an inquiry on the subject. lie
had no objection, however, to leave the matter
to take the course proposed by the Right Hon.
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and therefore
would not press his motion to a division.
After a few words from Mr. BRIGHT, the
Amendment proposed by the Chancellor of tie
'xchequer was put and agreed to.
TIMBER DUTIES BILL.

The. Order. of the Day having been read for
ie third reading of the Timber Duties 13111, Mr.
lALLAcE moved that the Bill should be read a
tird time.

• Mr. GURNEY made a few observations on the
Bill, and said, that if it were not too late, he
would propose an alteration in the rate of duties,
as they related' to the admeasuremenf of the
timber.

Mr. MoNcK said, that the best hope he •could
entertain respecting the Bill was, that it would
be wholly inoperative, for if operative, it would
do mischief. He proceeded to argue against the
measure at considerable length, contending, that
for the benefit of one class, the ship owners,. a
-heavy tax •was laid on the rest of the community.
lie trusted that a pledge 'would be given by the
advocates of the measure, that it would not be a
final one, but that the subject should again be
brought under the consideration of the Legislature.
Sir I. COFFIN briefly re-stated his'objections to
to the bill.—Mr. Pxr,r.xrs argued against the.
bill, and trusted it would not be a permanent
measure. .

Mr. WALLACE said the measure was considered`
rather one of necessity, arising out of yresent'cir.

cilrhitanCes, titan one the object
merely to bring Canadian timber into
petition with that of the- Baltic.—Thi bill WaN
then read a third,time and..passed..
The. Irish Coroners' Bill went-through a Committ4;.afterlt
conversation between Mr. MARTIN and 111 r. HIT.TCHII4So*,4
to the qualification of Freeholders, 'entitled to'vote for thiEle-
tion of Coroners. The Irish• Lunatic Asylum .Bill wat :riead a
third time and passed.—The Scotch Court of Admiralty Bill was
recommitted.—The Report on the Committee of Supply Was
brought up, and ordered to be -committed on • Monday '
night.
The other Orders of the Day Were then disposed of; an at
a quarter to Nine the House adjourned until Monday se'nniet.