The Sun.
London, England, 1817-03-01 00:00:00

LONDON PETITION.

Sir JAWS SfIAW presented a petition which bad
beets agreed to this day, in the Common 8011,
the language of which was respectful and proper,
it prayed that the measure for the suspension of
the Ilitheas Coi pits Act 4hould not be passed, and
alsn_iettioustratell against the other measures.

it Citt.,Ate had not ty:!en able to attend this
day's meeting, but agreed in all the sentiments of
thg petitioners. Inc (bought the present measures
totally uncalled fur, and uunceessary,
Mr. CALCRAFT congratulated the City of Lon-
don on 118 havingnienrusentative who would thus
tome forward, anti : after Jtaviig. witnessed those
!nighty curt:lrises tan th,e :Bank and Tower, would
speak to their insignikanee, and &chill! that it
was will the constitutional bt4warit and, shield of
the liberties. of the
,subject should he suspended
tor one thotogut on their account.

..Hr. I'. Mootte. congratulated the House on the
Requisition of evidence which superseded all the
evidence hitherto given. 11 Hon. Gentleman
Would abide 4y their utytt.seuses, and not by the
Ill.fangled Report of the Secret Committee, they
would conic to 'the conclusion that that'lteport
was s libel au the country, and an attempt, 10 in).
pose evidence them. He wished that every
Alenther shoultVbe called opoo In his place to de-
clare what was the stete of the putt of the coun-
try which ,he represented. If this were not done,
the country, was condemutd unheard. If the
}louse did its 441 by its
.constituents, it would
set aside the Report.
1(01041.1t, :034 ,th,e opportunity which

this petition ri4ferek to call ti ',nn trous. to
eon.hivr .how large r,* portion of his iVidjesty'3
subjects- were prevented front exprrssisu. titeir
alatro at the tm.a,titt. prop,rd. And th, y were
tliase who would be most grievously affected,
the present Bill.‘voold make the coodition of the
► .people its Scotland *till more .miserable than that
'of the --English.- Ile believed, and if he were
► wrong, he shookd wish to be set right, that the
Suspension Bill of 1794 made no difference what-
, ever between England and Scotland. He hail no
idea that a difference had been made until the 13.11
had been printed. In England, by tine 13111 ns it now
stood, if a man were .committed to pri.ou on a
warrant signed by one Minister of State or six
Privy Councillors, he conicl not be. brought to
vial without their cot►sent. In Scotlaud, any one.
connnitted on a charge of high .treason by any
subordinate Magistrate, even a Sheriff's Substi-
tute, most remain in Confinement, without trial,
unless he obtain the consent of SIX Privy Conn-
cillors. did not believe that the I-lon. Mem-
, hers in that House who represented Scotland had
any notion of the !Intoner in which they were re-
cloned to Vote away the liberties of their country.
Mr. M. A. TA YLO It was anxious to loom on
what grontida such a clause could be justified.
The Lotto .ADVOCATE of SCWELAND said, that it
was comprteot for any Membei, to pot questions
on the subject, but that he did not think himself*
boned to answer them until the Bill should ‘be re-
gularly before the House.
Mr. linouGnam agreed with the Learned Lord
that it was competent for any lion, Gentletnau to
avail himself of the bringing up of petitions to
put a question ; but the House could' no longer
have any doubt on lie subject, tor it %vas now
ascertained by the first Law Officer in Scotlant!,
that high authority newly imported -into the liaise;
gist it .was a right which had been pm etty fre-
quen,tly exercised before ; a tight to which the
country had owed its relief from some of the
.worst measures which the House had ever .wrong
trout a reluctant Government,- and Dire to which,
with the blessing of God, lie trusted still greater
improremeots to the Constitution of the country
would be due. As to the reason why no answer
was given 'to his Learned Friend, it could easily.
be guessed.
The. ATTORNEY•URN KRAL hart HOtICEStOOII the
Noble and Learned Lord to admit, that it was re-
gular for Hon. Members to put tpmestions, but that •
'as the 11111 would soon be under time regular con-
sideration of. the House, he thought it ;would
ford hint a better opportunity fOr giving tiny ex-
planation which he might have to snionit,
Mr. MAnnocits and General FERCUSSON wished
that time should be allowed for petitioning.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER' read part
of the Bill of -179.1, to shew that the clause !TN-
tire to Scotland was not a new one, but had been
copied from it.

Sir S, Iti)mii..LY reminded the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, that he begged to be Corrected if he was
wrong. But the imptirtant. finest WaS' not
whether the cliNse existed in the Bill of 17!)1 or
nut, but whether any difference ought to be inade
between the people of Scotland 'and of Englrod.•
Mr. PoNsoNny- thought it desirable thrt the
Learned Lord should condescend to iv plain What
the Clauserrieant. It was important that the lion.
Gentlemen tvlio supported, should at least under-
stand the Bill.

Mr. H BATHURST said', that whatever might he
)c merit's or demerits of the Clao'se, there %%ts

no. one at present to answer for then), as it hat
stood in other Bills which passed the scrutiny ni
as great ac e !less and talents as the 1-louse conk

now boast.
The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie
on the table.

LIVERPOOL PETITIG44I,-...
Mr. BilouonAN.110(1 in. his hands-abother proof
of the great advantage which- the 'wintry would
derive from any
.tithe which the House might
Although a single ball day had been
given to the inhabitants of Liverpool, they had
expreised their opinion in the most respectful but
earnest manner in the Petition which he should
beg leave to present. When he looked at the
names by which it was signed, he found, that they
were those of the most respectable, wealthy, and
independent inhabitants of that great city. He
might „indeed, appeal to the Lion. Nleinber who
represented it, for the truth of .what he asserted.
The Petition expressed no opinion on the Report-
'of the. Secret Committee, but stated that the

titioners had reason to suspect that the charges
contained in it had been made by designing in-
dividuals, who had taken that opportunity of in-
sinuating matters against their neighbours, as
in 1794, which they had no doubt facts would

dispruve., •
Mr. CORE took the opportnnity of saying a few
words respecting the imputations which the lt,e-
port, upon which the 13ill in progress through the
Moe Was founded, had cast upon cet (alit Clubs
established in different parts of, the kingdom,
upon principles which 'could not truly be de-
scribed as subversive of the Constitntion., Amongst
others, the Norwich Union Club had fusoui itself
included amongst those which the Committee of
the House of Lords had stigmatised in its Report.:
He hail this day received .a letter front Mr. Taylor,
of Norwich, one of the principal Members of the.
Union Club there--a. Gentleman of whom he
might say, that he was likely to be one 6f the very
last men in the kingdom who would engage in
any project against the Constitution or the Laws,
and there was no, man. who knew the Taylors of
Norwich, who would not say that they were one
of the most respectable families in, the kingdom..
With the permission. of time House he then read
the letter, which stated, " that .by a passage in.
the Report of the Secret Commit tee of the House of
Lords, the Union. Society of Norwich found itself
grossly. misrepresented--!-that it was with,t be ut-
most astonishment that that Society had:found it
said that it wits affiliated and associated with atm.
;her Society of the saute name in London, and..
wilh others, the aim and object of which were tine
total subversion of the „Ctinstittition; that the:
Union Society nt-Norwich, Was bound by no secret
oaths ; that it belt! .no midnight meetings at which,
the .Scriptures, were prolaned: or. ridiculed ; that.
it had ;IQ( Capled to be purchased for. the
perpose of enforcing its doetritiesl that it had no
correspondence or connexion with env other So-
ciety whatever ; that it -heti nothing to do with.

, . . •
• arty trattnr's that the vet r pled;:t OPit
at le•ist as far ors ialnte,l lu the Union Society ut
Nor‘‘ich, OA! Committee hmi hey o ctittipWtt lv du-
ct-kW, And than he Was feadV to to !limb the Meta •
hen's" of the :ktlutinktration or the House with any
proofs whirl' might be required to corroborate
his statement." The llou. Gentleman then said,
that he thought the statement in this letter de-
served implicit credit'. If time, were allowed he
had no dalbt 'that many more statements of the
same (dud would he received from different parts
of the country ; and even fromiyhat had already
appeared, the Report or the Committee us as more
and more weakened every day. Indeed nothing
Gerold surprise him more than the unallilll4yof the
Committees. •
Mr. W. Smrro rose for the purpose of corroho.
ratiuz, by his testimony, all that had hero said by
the Hollow able Gentleman who spoke last, as to
the respectability of the quarter from which he
had received the letter that bad been read to the
House. lie had hithself also received a letter to
the very same purport.. Nothing could exceed his
surprise at finding in the Report alluded to any
imputation against the Union Society, the objects
of which were well known to he of the most
harmless kind, and its views solely to promote the
cause of Constitutional Rearrrn.
Mr. B. BaTuuasT observ.d, that as the Union
Societies were not mentioned in the Report of
this House, all that had been DOW said respecting
them, did not apply to any thing d?the .or
in-
tende~d to be done by the House. The Commit-
tee atlas House did not conceive that there war,
any thing particularly mischievous in the Union
Society of Norwich.
Mr. HA RYE!. Y rose fair the purpose of saying that
he knew Mr. Edwin(' Taylor, of Norwich,. who
signed the letter which had been read by the Hon.
Gent4man (Mr. Coke), to be a most respectable •
man, who, though he might differ itl opinion from
him (Mr. Harvey) on pylitical•subjects, yet Le was
sure would be one of the last men to attempt, by
means of any club or otherwise, to overturn the
Constitution. ,
•
Mf. TIERNEY said (as we understood), that he
had been prevented from attending the Secret
Committee at its last sitting, otherwise he would
certainly have proposed, that before they pre-
sented their Report to the House, they should

have,communicated with the Committee of. the
other Utilise, and compared their reports and evi-
dence. A$ it was, eve, y thing. that had come out
respect to the Report of the Committee of
the other [louse,, furnished the strongest argit•
men; for delaying the Bill now in progress. For
if the evidence was offered for the pitrposeof prov-
ing &it there was a mistakein the Report of the
Committee of the House of Louis, that was sute-

an argument for tirbiy, till it should 'be see

whether there was any mistake in the Report of
theCommittee.ol. this House. It was above
Ihings necvssiry, in a case of the present kind,
hat it sintithl- he nt:certaineci whether there were

ny mistakes, and of what kind.

It it boil a

ready been discovered that a mistake had•hey
lade one instance, ten more might ,he consi

ered as include,4l'in, the sweeping accnsatinn con

tained in the Report alluded [loose cool,
not reasonably pail such Kl3lll in the fats: of sod
a mi.itake.
Sir JANIES MacisusTosn spoke shortly in. the
highest,terms, as to the respectability of tile per-
son from whom the letter came which had been
-earl to the tionse
Mr. JOHN SMITH said, that the Report •cone

inel an imputation of the most serious kin

against that part of the-country which htlind the
honour Nto represent. It would therefore he' ex-
tremely.strange it time was not allowed for an
opportunity to spew whether such an imputation
was .true or tint. He had no doubt, tfint if the
Bill for suspending the Habeas Corpus Act were
not hurried through the :Honse,• he should have
to present to v the Home a-petition from several
thousand persons against that 13111, He then made
Nome observat ons on the general impolicy of that
- lie had no intention of casting any impu-
tation against the Members of the Committee,
who were all -nersortsof big!). consideration in that
House,.and of great consetinence in•the country.
But at the same time, when he was called upon
as a Member of Parliament, to agree-to a-measure
which :was to suspend, for four months the hiker--
ies of the people of England, lie could not con-

. .
scientitnisly agree to it merely on the Report, no.
from any confidence in the,Comtnittee. who frame(
it.. Much had 'been said abotit the Spenceans.-
They had been represented, as a thtmerous and
dangetous body of .men, whose principles were
widely. disseminated. It so happened that he,. as
a Member of what was called the Spitalfields
Committee, had aft opportunity of examining 'very
closely .the condition: and habits of rite lower
classes in the eastern part ' the metropolis,
where he had witnessed.seenes of the most afflict-
ing kind, . lie had during his inquiries, frequently
asked these unfortunate victims of the distresses of
the times; but he had not met with -one of them
who professed the Spencean doctrines, nor Who.
had even heard nf'them, except through the neWs:'
papers, and when they had heard of 4hem, so far,
even under their excessive distress,.frOm adopting
these wihl doctrines, they: universally treated them
with derision. Upon the whole, he really could
not give credit to that part of the Report which
represented these principles asso widely diffused ;
tool he could not help thinking that' all that was
said about the Spencuan system (to ,u4e a vUlgtit
expression) was met ely lamilmg:—(A
As to the proceedings on the 24 of December host,.
no , man could think them more, criminal than
himself ; he , thought the individuals con-
cerned were guilty of high treason, Jut the nlie.
could not think -that there was any serious danger
to he apprehended ,from an: insurrection which
broke out at twelveio'clock in the day. The Re-
port of the Committee:might be right .as to sonic
individuals:, but he denied that it was true ttis
applied to any large- body of the people, although
in fact, it libelled the whole people of 'England;
for it, Was in such, general terms that it might
apply to every part of the kingdom.e, lie was very
munch surprised that a Report, which stated that-
extensive conspiracies .existed against private pro-
perty, should have taken no notice of the Lud,
dices, who fottned one, of the most extensive and
dangerous
.combinatioos by which . the _right of
property could possibly be menaced. The out-'

- • ;
ri..Zl?; coininitteA by tn,-,L,,,,A0 i.ppi ou,
ii,), ~, niniterons or sit t n.leut; Ls' 'I 4 1...:4 '
wl:eii ii'ley were in their height, ll', suir"...)
tile Habeas ,Corpus Act had .Igra Oa:
might have 'doubted whetherit.wasaut
ces3ary. But in the t)reseet state of MT
it appeared to hint 'qui!e anneceststf,
til;
lately been abroad, and during a "9"1,1.1,
a company of foreigners, cow:oo4m'
Constitution, lie had diappeneil
marks as to the liberty of the
reign Gentleman observed, tba'
subject in England was not so
of, since it could not be deni,
coat! go down to the 110" Se
he pleased, art! induce it to si
Corpus Act.--(I-rear, hear,
tion).—To this be.(llr. S.) 11
Minister could do so iu any e--
was not 'an obvious nect'ssitY
public opinion, or it would I
majority. He therefore hope)
of the House this night would
nion was correct.
Mr. LONG WELLESLBY said h
serially from the lion. Gentlemt
as to what was- the general 01)1'
concerning the Bill before the
!leved that the public opinion W'
your of that Bill. That. HOl
said, that among the inhabit)
be had found no Spenceans; inhabit)
none of those who professed Ili
pies would be willing to aiow.
was no good argument to be detitites
Gentleman's inquiries as to that psirati'so,
The CHANCELLORof the EXcOabsatii
remind the House, that the (I"e'tit's it f.
whether the petition should be broog'l!,ji
Lortl Cocti RAN E said that be hail tec'):oo,
ter from a person of the name vl.o'llolo
(Heating the Hampden .Club At liet:,gi 041'1
from the imputations in the Iteport"
mittee of the ['Ouse of Lords. pit fiti
serving,T
ti- ac:l, t) ui-elt BROUGHAM
113 ies:iitttit:lisetfsle'sariseosittliaci,ile'elbi: 101:bteutv1131
ji,a3gtCliOill'ilils:,(lll)::"::jetiillibitnif4l'
the Hon. Geotlenntn,(Mr. L..Wi'ilitisrfotlYherroClloll.-
bthriengliholgusetipintirurnieyd,it)thewßioinll,then
would perhaps prevent that 11011.6" 0(01
pular a measure.--IA lattgli,i1;(113:1'(:',"Itirrls))1
tl
it Would 'seen) front what had L'es'i or,
thisl i Ilan.
Hill
il Gentleman,,,o 11y tfl)art.
tlll n e
pi sit,: rpsos fella' 1 Pre ,f
the tranquillity of the country Agll'itylio oft;
homerous soviet the Spencesni,it 01010
t;):l,llelrti.i,roemsea&yo()fh biteaviefnuila,4i,;"ll:--lbity(tAfocito:ie'lgtr::::)[e-136::)1::Ici:.r"i11(11%4
hear 1.. from the Opposition.), . 1 1
. 111 r, LONG IVEL LESL SY- eXpirilllei ' lie
0'
'rite petition was tlict) Oidcred t° ,
table. el
• ,raare
Sir F. R
—URD&T'r /TM e.for titc p, , r ipe
, :,,sier .1,
setting,,
Club
a petition IrGui the I.Jel‘ i ciStlit
itil'ithL'iloiliveY:iie::'llirititti,,Cleeicilitielit(l'e:ltio.u:Ctiiiil);nililitl.:.C.aeeAtitsitiilinlit'):toticifEeki:.thiol(li.,i'tlitt‘ttialiiiielleic).titir‘tiace.t.l4eitlttoot,:i,g.sl(ift'iii.)t‘:liiii.:Dt,,rtCull'oistt:();:)yiyifi,'lltsi.eltiiiiii, ijilei.,:ei:ne,e4l;l:::;:lrica44:l.)):l,llfitre,ll:::,i'ntf'itiff3il,je:loitill::ii:: '
co-ext,nsive with taxation,Paril:l""legi° )11171.et
S
; 0,1..,,,,,;
'!'die Cli ANCELLti It Of Elle I.;Seil
01 ,o'
I11:13 BM, 1 10':
' ftlr. M. A. TAYLOR rose to al 'r Of
C.:olitlttv.Pa'Llsillstie‘i lc:It:1)11:1 rda ts'')':ll(‘:vt::lY:e)s)rpsbtilerilnpe I:e't ii.:::: °S811;111t:1111)111:1e1111:C°1.1:1''''
nii se- • .
thosen
should be recorded than it's
Ii ille''
influencing the. I-louse. I.l'e l'idlctilf'' ,10 °f:l-
- 111
danger was to be espec'--I 0,11 • fr
1 al of the Spenceao doctrine§.
,e tbA,/
ilicle 'was..any man tvhu could Irclic:jory 4
or
IV, as a dangerous and extensive c""',l, 000 ),,,,
I" point or breaking out, he Ivt'"'"e. (01.1%
it person that, the exioina laws t4'et ,i Ne ,),
dent fur the s„ppressi„'"„ Of it hest,{)."l)4l.o`brit,
prove this fiont what had been ' a V.,0
would remindrhin) that an ioptutrleicet;'pttsilr.A':
ready bloke» out, and bad Ivy ilycr" 001
1,4 c laws already its force, been it)il.3lo iftlir''
,rll e power ,w,hich the suspension 4 ', e 011
~,,
give to Ministers, were atich si tt ..01°' '
,ver. 0,
trust his. dearest friend with--the,Y„FaPoi,
wou!tl not trust himself %vitt). ic t roc '' '''
hat{ c' ' 1
case of Arthur O'Connor, vvli° oal'" -:
cPtlntry with the . highest rec°nltnitilnittlltt;,
malty of the first characters in l';"''ltiectl 1.
others, that person had been inrr°`.,l, 1)01,,
(,1\,1,,c• '1•1 5) family, and friiided '4llspiCit!flO
ti`ii.• 1:a) had not the slightot, ts,' rat o:c`i 1
O'Connor was engaged it) the ll'4l, 1, () 1:
aftet wards appeared lie- was implies.
10,v1Ii-1,,,
was arrested in his (Xlr.'lVA 11""se),.; liiill tiIC
ask Whethera •'I 1 stl4l''''.! if - A;
ny 111411 tic 4, 1 Nei 10( ).-:,
of high treasou ?---(.‘ hitigh•)--: , hits
been in such a sitttation of life t"' t,-41i -,or''
lli'"` ' 11151 i
wits not well known, and if trie-,i, cif°, it
Act had been suspended when liiiere "lir-
et !licit he mentioned tool: place; t he 104:lip,' -
probability that out mere stisplci°l 6110 :-.,
. 1 d c°" ply iif
been dragged from his Isimi.y stii e pa 0,1,
riedelinite time. in vaio d" '', i, die:o,ll,f,
t" the laws, am! demanded a, tr.' 6 ' :is 0134
Of lirrrCillg hits innocence, 85 il'St ‘cvdrJo'sit6,L;
for the snspension of the 1-141)'135 001' I; le'
away with the right of .trial ; In f 01';"$,:f 7.4:i
end to all the rights told liberties °,,oster ofr,tp
for it placed them all wirhin die 1,11tosOleoiti:
'lister'. in '1794, when the sone rid es'l,l,,,l'i
propoted had bet.), brought forwtl;,,ert IP i,101_,;
the tvhole country and the Haase 1 clit 11'0,,,i,
the dread of 'French principles; siiii‘ 13':fellor
against the meas;ire was- cell 51":,,tigh„°1 ''',/'
snre that if it could Itave bleu 1/,',cjid°l,lll.,''
tYlt at WEIS proposed could ha%e -w" 'esti!" j
precedent, in such a case ss•tlle I:1.01.01(1.'141
10 r ~e ~ r
amity then would have been to
that 11 00;4'
. IVIF. IVy ND 11 ANI QblN li6.l(ll,:i.tlicC°::o.o4t:/,‘
is:ecnitioYnnefdtilicuPtchreitilitiseri::rit),i-c:llir'el (11:::,);(5b1 '1'1):: I‘'l4
ci"ts(1011-; the designs .aoll °II', !tad
°Q
spirators- were ail that the l"l°`lsv
1

„I 10 00',,
stihiat, 01,' ,
at the libtr.lo
) riga 35,%.,r
ieti Oita 14C:
of CL 'll 1"”:
iospcoll till
11001 Ihei ,I
1011 rePliC',!; ,
CiSe ill o':jii
na Ogaill
Yb'e bY shv,6l ''''
1
.d that 1,0,
1 sltew that
itll'illilii;vi'llaiceit.4lt;:sti:nisi:ries:'Lliiioe:flllci'ai:l,:ri.:llc'itilbs.tjf'gilPheilla:ilrt,,k6::tl4:
..
then), 0 011
tore(' f'°'n

;!,; A,l
,„"T
, i, ;they were considered, he d nOt !
luhr 111;111 could deny 'the otev?-
Y flit: proposed ineasnre. As to (he
it till'. the esilting laws were adequate, be 7:
t!ley hal hen uteri sufficient to criish the 4E5'
"14
ivhicli `broken out, could
, hecituse the chief teason the
of the Rill .Iv,is founded was this—th'ilti
'vere ()Gliders nliom the existing. laws con"'
11e mgued, that the power which the,,
aid give.migiit he safely entrusted to -\"-
>is they were responsible to the [louse for
_hers, and es the
r Bill +ens only to COO-
Ice tin 14 end of the Session.
Thiritos Veil not allow the House to
,te on a sulijt'o so materially concerning
'".`l Di' the ihjeet without expressing his
uliou that the exi,[ii,g dangers were
slake this NI iibsolutely necessary for
't the country. The Hon. Gentltoeman
speak for some time lotv t'as'te' of
!onclutled with observin
illy looked g, that the
up to Government for
all he thought it impossible such a
I be enforced, it Ministers were not
as for the good of the (immy.
oN felt induced on this particular
.ar himself and his friends on that
!Mown
from the unmanly insinuation
!Mown out,, that those Who dis-
stets on this question might [(OS.*
if they were not coocerned in
at shewn itself.--(No, 111),
was glad to hear it dis"-
'ght, however, that this was a
udd Only be justified by the
wrious necessity. -The degree
to he estimated by the de-
le could not agree with those
m the Report, which did ap-
ain facts. But since then,
evidence had been ten-
Live shaken the atithori-
Ile was willing to make,
iere were conspiracies on
if not the safety
of the
of some districts. It" was
lint they did exist ; but
\t had means enough in
Brig theni, without im-
however, the existence of
bad been made out to the
Committee, the inquiry
'gilt to have clone ? As-
first instance, as soon
knowledge, to hare bad
remedies ; they ought.
mem, anti to have put
Did they do this ? So
'total to lie dormant,
er as if they wished to
mot. This was a sys-
'lto had maintained a
of peace, and-set their
enehment. Govern-
itself in the minds
qtl those reasonable
lemanded from one
ler. He %you'd ask
known fact,
that
use who had pro-
nig -since shown
in associations to
irs to an extent al-
e only act of dis-
bad been quelled
were miw
the benefit of the
by Jury. It was
tel that the Con-
slighted, as till'
never been 'sus-
'e- safety of the
Gentleman pro-
coition; ison be-
-7 and in 1794 ;
he bead of the
entrusted with
aid place iii his
)t to be h urried
haste. It was
in France
i•had filled all
'ever eh-emu-
s measure in
to justify it
Committee,
they might
the general
e led Mini-
of culling'
iriod. Cie
have Mol-
t)°, when
the same
lent to be
put into
it, cx-
situation
person ;
var, re
Change,
Europe
1 when
naking
to the
lot say
, but
;erous
iress-
rbed,
isteri
-ions
sighs
ind.
that
Sir
ran
If
It

h oi been so mt 1,1.11 ;trgut'd opnn
criticised, by tinlught those who trAmed it wer.l
not houml to enter into a, rnitone;defence of it ;:
but when they were charged witk.putting absur-
dities into it, it ought to be known on what
ground such a charge rested. Those who under-
took to state evidence, were surely boomd not to
garble it. Thus, if.the'facts about the intentions
of seizing the bank, bursting the barracks, and de-
steoying the bridges had been withheld, and it
had afterwards been necessary to allude to it, it
might haie been said, ," This is not the pint of
the conspirators ; you must have made it, or you
would have introduced it into the Itenort'
(Hear, hear; hear !)—Ent it was not on this part
of the Report, nor on any plot or conspiracy, or
design,, that he should found the y:ote he mean;
to give,' but on the general situation of the coun-
try. There was 31 general dispositionamoui;st the
members of the Hampden, the Spenceani. and
similar Clubs, to carry their designs into elreet by
force ; and the country was in such a state, that
by means of leaders, very serious distnrhaue,e3
might.he produced. It was impossible to overlook
the activity of the delegates who go front part to
part; .dispersing tracts and exciting disturbances.
He believed that the measure before the House
was.of the Itiltest possible consequence, to prel.
vent and imimidate those persons from coming
forward to put themselves at the head of the dis 7
a'ffeeted, The ordinary course of the law might
be sufficient, it the law were suffered• to take its
course ; but he believed it to be:stopped and ar-
rested, by the system of threats an.l menaces
which intimidated jurors aml other_publie autho-
rities, which those persons kneiv, by former oc-
currences, were not idle and vain, but would be
carried into certain mid bloOdy execution. After
the Bill had passed, he trusted we shOuld hear
very little more of treasonable practices ; but it
was his opinion that it would tend to the true
happiness and prosperity of the country, nits! lie
should be-very happy to, bear his share of any ap-
plause or any odium that might :result frura
Lord FoutsToNs thought such sentiments most
extraordinary indeed, as coining from_a Member ,
of the Committee who was in the habit of oppos-
ing Ministera. But he must express his abhor-
tenee of the grounds'on wlrich the Hon. Gentle-
man had rested his opinion of the necessity of,
the measure. Ile thought the House had reason
to complaiteof.what he bad stated, that he should
not rest his vote on any thing contained in the
Report, but on his view of the general state of
the country:. lie had been in the habit of con-.
veiling with Gentlemen out of the House, and he
bad never heirrd of this horrible state of the coun-
try. IVby was the House to be amused with a
ridiculous plot which was over two months ago,l
But, supposing the case to he as' the [lon. Gentle-'
man described it, how 'was the Suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act to remove it ? He_protested
against the measure, as one intended tlB
date .the people; and it this were the view of Nli-
nisters, he would say they had dealt infaMonsly
by the country. Tire fact seethed to have been
let out at last, chat the measure was to intimidate
the people. He called on the House to pause,
and give the country time to send In Petitions,
and to enable the Lord Advocate to come to an ex-
planatii-m, which he had not done yet , respecting
the state orStanland. The Noble Lord proceed-
ed to argue on there.being no compitrison between
the state of the country in 1794 ainfatt present.
He contended that the meeting of Reformers in
Spa-fields had nothing -to do with the riot, and
that the people ought to be soothed and encou-
raged. He saw no evidence in the Report, of the
peOple being about to proceed by force, to such
outragevas should entail on them such a scourge.
The ,greater part of the Report was a history of
what had passed tinder the eyes of Ministers two
or three months ago ; and 'where was their vigour
that had been so much talked-of ? mite' ted to
'the Act of 1812, which, he contended; was ,mite
strong enough to answer any purpose requited at
the present time ; as it went to suppress onlaw-•
foil Societies, and to make the administering of
unlawful ,oatlis punishable witlt death, and the
taking of them punishabie by transportation for
life. He beseeched the [loose not to go on in
this track ofaittacking the liberties of the people
any longer, as it was a urost ilatigelOOS Rod mis-
chievous one, and they would sacrifice their duty
most' woefully illheiproceeded to read the BM a
third time that night.
Mr. Lama and Lord FOLKSTON:B explained;
The LORD ADVOCATZ Of SCOTLAND said; that
in all the.preceding acts for the suspension of the
Habeas Corpus, front the time' 'of the union 01
England with Scotland, a clause was introduced
in the' very same terms as was to "be found in the
present Bill. In 1715, 1722; and 1795, the Law
Officers who then sat in that noose meant Co put
the people of Scotland out of the pale of the law
as much as the people of England. -A Petition
had been presented to the House by a person of
the name of Mr. Arthur, stating', that one of the
Officers of Justice in Scotland had been guilty of
some oppressive acts, had afterwards received
a pension from the Crown ; but he wished the
House to remember, that an Honourable Mem-
ber, Who was now. no more (Mr. Horner), bad
expressed a very favourable opinion of that Judge;
and, surely, all who considered the conditct
of
that Houourahle Member---;all who reflected on':
his strict- integrity and teany virtues,- both in
public and private life-.-all' seloi dwelt on the
great benefits which' Scotland haul derived from
his abilities and, attachment to the public in-
terests----all who flattered themselves, and most
justly so, with the exception that England would
derive the. most essential benefits from his. patrio-
tism and talents, (here Sir Samtiel Romilly ap-
peared to be deeply affected); would ctsneur in the
opinion, that nothing criminal or injurious 'to;the
reputation of that Judge could have been ein-
mitted, or the Hoodurable Member to whom lie
had alluded would not have suffered it to escape
his censure.
Sir S. Rostiet,t: rose merely to make one or
two observations on what had fallen from the
Learneul'Lord, from whoM lie had the.mistortmle
to differ with respect to, the acts avhich ineholed
_Scotland. He had said, on a former night,' that
'the clause in question was,not to befoandiii the
act of 1794: be had never Said that it wai not to,
be fOund in any of the preceding
.acts. It' was
Certainly not to be found in the act of 1744.

Vr • •
T1,:3, 11,t--.ver, was, a matter of .very snglit Im-
pott:MCC : ; tbe. tprevion was,nol. What was, done
in 101111CF.i 1111e9, brit•.what was to; be done now.
Lie entreated the 11nnse to pause, .nod not. to
suffer at!.'y Judge or Magistrate to take -tiny 'man
into inistpdy ivithout ,the order of LMajesty's
Privy Council, 6igned by six Privy Councillors.
This clause only referred to soar as bad been
committed under a warrant from the Secretary of
State.; .

Mr.,IioNSONEY fibserveir, that the Learned Lord
ctiald have no objection to clearing iris the diffi-
culty, which did !rot prevail with •regard to the
Scotch. Acts of
.1701 and 174,1, against wrongous
inipmu onient. :As the ,clause was at present
worded, it would I),:,‘r many constructions directly
opposed to each wher,w.hielt could not be decided
ninru :icier the pa,sing of the Bill, but by a Court
of Justice..

Sir A ‘I'tGooTT ►slat-' reprobated the .obscurity
and a►nbiguity with witic`► the .clause was framed.
It this law were to,be inflicted upon the people,
they ha►l at- least a right to expect- that it should
be clear and precise. In artier that the.diflicultY
might he rensuved, he recomniended that the Bill
should'he recOmmitted.

- .
The.Sreaxeit. remarked,. that in the present
stage the Bill could not be recommitted. ;Any
amendment might be introduced after the third
reading. . •
Sir A. Ptaccti•T then proceeded to state his opi-
nions generally ,npoti the measure before the
llonse. He watildatot go so far as tons', that
he approver' of every phrase in the Report of the
Secret Committee; but after mature cooside,ration
as a whole, it met with his entire and hearty con-
currence. He had his:coed to the arguments of
some and to the taunts and sneers of others; but
his opinion was the More confirmed the more he
reflected %loon the nature of the evidence upon
which that Report was founded. He did not
shrink front this declatation, because he hefty it:t a
be a public dins; and, in his judgment, Minh-
ters would have been liable to the severest cen-
.
sures, had they'not made' the communication to
the, House that led to the appointment of the
Comt»ittee.—(llear!)—So far front the Report
being an exaggerated statement, lie was rather
inclined to think that it scarcely went as far AS the
evidence would warrant. As to the disclosure of •
that. testimouy,, the Committee bad wisely deter-
mined not to publish it ; and although much of it •
was liable to contradiction, yet it was not to be:
expected that a Committee, not administering an
oath, should obtain information with. all the
guards of judicial proceedings. The objection
that the evidence was not annexed to the,Report,
was rather an objection to the, nomination
of u Committee at all ; since the wit-
nesSes; if it had beep deemed prudent, might
. have been examined ht the bar of the House.—
The evils were certainly neither. light nor trivial,
and, on account of their importance, he rea-
dily gave his support to the' Bills upon the .table
for the suppression of secret associations, for the
prevention of the seduction of the' army and ii ivy,
and for the protection of the person of the Pi i,ice
Regent ; but these Securities were all he consider-
ed necessary, and,therefore be most strongly pro-
tested ,agaiust the proposed suspension, of the
Habeas Corpus Act : that measure, the HOUSe
would recollect, was not llireeted Against any
particuine %..r against any particulae
piace boi it deprieed equally all classes of the
King's subjects of their jolt rights, and confound-
ed the innocent With the guilty: Was it pretended,
that a single individual ot property or Conse-
quence had been concerned with these miserable.
wretches ? Or could, it be argited, that dread of
coMmunications between insurgents and foreign
hostile powers justified the suspension, which wa's
not only disproportioned,th, -but not tut all cab:it-
. listed to meet the evil ? One Hon. Gent. (Mr. Lamb)
had indeed supported it for a reason never before
urged, that -reason. was not only extraordinary in
itself, but still mote extraordinary from its want of
the slightest tontulationiil truth. He said that the
suspeosion—this -111, above the law—was requir-
ed, beCause the- progress of the ordinary law was
arrested by the present state ot the country,. This
was a pore imagination., Where, in the Report,
would .any statement be found to justify such an
assertibu : upon *what peculiar evidence, in
his exelosive possession, did the• Hon. Gentleman
fintii.l his bold assertion ?—(Hear, bear!)—We
were now upon the very eve ot the Spring Assizes;
,the 3 uttge§ were about to open their Commissions;
'and yet- they were to be told that all was in vain,
.for the progress of the law was arrested, and there
was an emi of all justice and its admi.nistrittion.
The Report confined the disthrhances to certain
Districts, and the evidence warranted that con-
elusion, but the remedy was to- :apply , to the
whOle,Nation ; and became it few active Dema-
gogues had misled sonic` manufacturers and arti-
zatis,. agricultural labmirers, and all other peace-
ful classes,, were to .be pot out of the pale of the
law: It was vii(mgh for hial that this extraordi-
nary power Was capable of abuse : be did not ask
Who were the •Ministers; but be would fearlessly
stateithnt mother circumstances like the present,
he would intrust such
,unlimited and uneontroul,
able authority' to no Ministers. True it WaS, that
unlawful associations existed ; but was it to be
now said, .aijd to be established as a precedent,
that whenever it could be ,proved that a Secret
Club, however' Olaf eMptible, had been frirtrieds
the tottering weakness of an 'Administration ,was
to be holstered op by a suspension of the Habeas
Corpus Act.—(Hear !)----Convinced as lie was, that
ninety-tune hundredths of the population were
well-disposed to onell the one :hundredth who
might be ill-disposed, he woold.
.by, rot tag,
for this Bill, subject 'himself- to the reproaeh of,
having aidtd in this new and nowarraait 'able attack
upon the Constitution.
The ATToßNKYrtifVigl,CBt- ittldressea the House
(rim% is strong sense. of duty; not because he felt
peculiarly competent to the task, tidying, for not.
less than sixteen limas', been engsiged in nroeur.
ing thg first cOoyiCtiOn country for an
offence against the law for the abolition ot the
,hive trade. Altlsougr,h same Honourable Gentle-
man - out the other side Of'ilie House were so
strenuous in.refusiog::thismecoltary powerto any
Minister; yet it I is nteniory did not tail Mai, our
neestOtS hail not less than' nine Cones conseo red
to.a Suspension of the Haberii:Corptii 'Act. The
question was, whether the state of affairs at pre-

sent just:fied n revition : a•id Itr hi, judetrient
there never had been a period our hkrory;vjieu
such an awful roinhin,i'!iou: of theumstanees de-
manded .that the EXecinivb Government should
be anted with additional authorite.- The Right
fitinourable,Gentlemiart Who...spoke last, andothee
Members of the CannuitieeWho usually Sat' on the
other side of the spouse, had vindicated MiniSters
froris the absurd hare that they were the con;-
trivet's of these plots, and- the pretnoters
these clubs, for their own private -perposes :
at least, those Gentlemen, with their high.
talents and excellent dkeernment; had been mtide
the dupes of this bilmbug, if.it herd even beet at-
tempted ; for, after the fullest inquiry, they
Were convinced of the real singers to which t'e
country was exposed. Surely the infamous and
blasphemous oath which a Learned Lord (the
Lord AdvoCate) had produced on a former night,
and which the Committee had excluded from their
Report, on. account of the danger to, which the
witttessea'ould be exposed, was a sufficient proof
of the extent to which disaffection had'been car-
ried.. In ordinary tittles, the old law against high
treason might be sufficient ; hut these were not
ordinary times ; and theliills in progress for the
supprevion of associations, and 'to prevent the
seduction of tl e. defenders of their country, of
themselves established the fact. If they were in-
sufficient, he appealed to the other measure for the
protection of the person of the Regent, not front
secret plots, not from constructive treasons, hut
frotn direct assassinations.—(llear, hear; and No,
no !)—The. Bill was upon the table, and its title
would'beSt explain its object. It was complained
by some,:that this Suspension.placed all the Sub-
jects of the (-:owri at the mercy of the Minister ;
but the provisions disproved"the statement ; -and,
although the trial of an offender might by its
Means be 'delayed; it was nothing more than was
frequently' done on the absence of a material
witness. One Right nonotirable Gentleman had
avowed, that 'under no circumstances would he
place such an instrument in'the hands of any Mii
nisters.—(No, no !)-1-le.n as glad to hear that lie
was mistaken, for it was time such an argu-
ment should be abandoned and exploded. Those
who were at all acquainted .with the practice of
the criminal law must be aware, that the ordinary
law against treason was luttch in favour of. the
criminal ; that certain forfils must tie observed by
the Prosecutor ; and that two ni,:nesses were rea
quired to the
,Overt Act :, this rendered con' icm
tions always difficult ; and in the case of the trai-
tors recently, arrested at Glasgow, certain delays
allowed by this Bill might be extremely benefitial
to the cause of justice in snore ways than one":
although many were apprehended,• did it follow
that all were secured : or might there not still be
some arch-traitor concealed, who would be able
to take advoutAge of the information, if a speedy
trial were to he had ? With regal d to those who
were in confinement in London, be was happy to
Lty, that probably no procrastination would he iv,
cessary in their cases.; 'at least to this he would
pledge,hiniself, that inn tote half hour should be
wasted between their arrest and their deliverance,.

(Hear, dteAr !)—lt: hail been said, that the Liw
Ofticers.of the Crown bad been aft ard to do their
duty. The Solicitor• General bad repelled the im-
putation with the scorn it merited ; and, for hitn-
self, he (tire Avoeney-General) would say,- that
the only tear he had ever entertained- was,, lest
he should be guilty of a dereliction of his duty,
and not execute it as became tire important trust
reposed in him. Jr was impossible for him to
file an information without lorVing satisfactory
evidence.. of treason ; but though such evidence
could not be produced, it did not follow that,
when so much acktiowlediged danger existed, a
new law should not be passed to meet n new
emergency. He could assure the House, th it he
had not slumbered in Iris duty ; and that as far as
power extended he had cxereiSed-it. He had
not been inattentive to those' iibeilons publi•
cations which for some 'weeks past had de-
luged all parts of the country. He had now.
in his pocket a most shocking and blasphe-
mous libel', which be bad received that very'
rday from Norwich, It Was a most horribly pro-
fane parody of the'Crced.—(Cries of read, read !)
: Ire owed it to the dignity of that House not
to insult it with the reading of so abominable n
libel: he shoal,' feel it his dirty to conceal it till
the matter Caine regularly before a Court of
Justice ; and he woidd then take care that it
I should be read only once, and that for the techuieal
purpose at comparing it with the record.--(Hear,
hear !)--4f,- however, any gentleman had u curio-
sky to read it, he would seal its tortteots in a
paper, and leave it on the table of the Hotise,—
(Heat., hear, hear !)—He could assure the Honie,
that he hiid not been inattentive to his duty
there was no one case. which Came in that shape
that lie enniel have brought arty person to jtidgment
onAt, before the present titre, end'it welchl be too
ranch to say, that he could have prevented the Spa
fields Meeting, or the riot 'that eniued from it. Some
Gentlemen- hail thought proper to throw ridicidtt
On the Spa•fields plot they had langlica at tire
ammunition-stocking ; and asked bow a bridge, a
Waterloo-bridge,'eould b.,e blown UP:;Vithritit sap-
pers or mineri. Ht~ did not believi ihnt much
nnsch'el esuld,have been done, but ii did believe
that. there wetepersonS who edleavottred to per-
suade other's that they could do all the mischief
which they .underfook to dri. Nor were those
leaders themselves despicably Orme(' : and they'
had takt. care to proVide arins for` others, by their
intimation that gatOmiths and pa wnbrokets shops'
thereto be broken tro,tt: Heeertainly was not acre Of
those who it that they could have ctfectiki
their evil litirpose• lie should he an audit adviser of
the CroW“ 'll lrt could trait been 'frightened into
sottoreasonaltlen syfjtitcj iriotr ; bat he wtinhl ask,
. was
.it nothing to trove alarmed the, Whole Metro-
poiis )-WaS #t oath ing that ought have been dune,
if tires had sallied forth in tire ui~.itr, it Iron the
C:tlien3 were peaceably in their beds Anti wall it
trot confessed.hy 041 ,the rioter's t.terse.lV
es,
that a premature rashnets-baddeteated cur-
pose It was said that-the present Eifel:lsolV tVOIIII
excite •01trat. He really believed that no honest
man throthorttthe kingdorn w n
o would sleep i
cnseiorernesi of setutity, though rwartv a ti Want
wonht he ioduced to desist from his rill designs.
(I tern. I)
Lord. G. CAtErsolsn replied to several of the
principal arginuentt of the last Speaker. Hecoull