The Sun.
London, England, 1817-06-12 00:00:00

PRI SONE RS OF STATE.

Lord FOLKESTONE said he rose to make a mo-
tion nearly similar to .the one he made on Thurs.
day last. It was for a return of the persons im7
prisoned under the Acts of the present Session,
which he conceived it was highly necessary to
have, previous to the agitation of the question for
:renewing the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus
Act. The Noble Lord (Castlereagh) objected
',last weak to such a motion, as brink inconvenient,
by putting the two.Seeretaries of State, as it were,
on their trial, by divulging secrets which ought to
be concealed. This was muse extraordinary; but
it could not he urged that it would be dangerous
to the.persons confined, however much it might
to .Ministers, Illowever, , the House having
rejected .his former•proposit ion, it was now in his
politer to put the [notion in'another shape. He
•sboalti therefore move for a list of the number and
names of persons committed under the late Sus-
pension of the Act. If the numbevabould be
small, he should argue that there was. no neces-
sity for the Suspension ; it large, be should argue
that it would be improper to give such powers to
Ministers to suspend the liberties of a whole peo-
ple, the country being at the time„,generally, in a
state of tranquillity. In the present instance,
as tar :as •his knowledge went, there was
no person of any rank or consequence in society
yet apprehended on charges of treasonable prac-
tices. He had applied to see a perion in Reading
Jail, named Knight, but was 'refused ; and from
same letteis 'Which he had seen of this peeson, he
should rather suppose him a lunatic, and, that his
mind might he deranged by his distress. Of the
others, one was a journeyman cutler and the other
a journeyman-tailor, wham the jailor•deseribed• to
him as the most simple and inoffensive people he
had ever met with. They were in. such distress
that they had not a farthing of money, nor even a
change of linen, and these were the dangerous
persons oneccount of whom the liberties'of all the
people wkre:lo be:sespended. He considered it
to be a great aggravation of their distresses to be
removed. for:. 200' miles tram the place where the
accusation was laid against them, which prevented
them from corresponding with their families. One
of them sent - a letter to his wife with a petition
on his case, and she was so,poor that she could
not pay the, postage and forward the petition.
After some further observations, the Noble Lord
moved for a list of all persons detained in Great
Britain under the authority of an Act passed in the
present Session of Parliament, by warrants from
the Secretary of State or six Privy Coeucillors,
including their :names, occupations, descriptions
of their persons, &C. &c. on suspicion of conspir-
ing against hiiMajesty'S Cciversurent.
Mr. it ADDINGTOf/i in the absence of -the
Noble Lord (Castleeeagb), who was scarcely ever
from seat, except when detained by ill-health,
or his official duties, would state his objections to
the motion ; but hoped .it would not be supposed
that:they arose from any Apprehension of incon-
venience arising to his Noble Relationi•from per-
forming his, arduous and responsible duties'. The
parts to which be should have no objection were,
the number of persons who • had been .confined
under warrants of the 'Secretary of State, nor to
their ages and the places where confined. But he
submitted whether it would not be injurious to
those persons, if their names were to be returned
and made public at the present time ? Hewould
wait to know whether the Noble Lord would
shape his motion accordingly, otherwise he should
move an amendment to this effect. He then al,
luded to the petition sent by Knight, which was
conveyed to the Wife of the individual; but as
the postage crone to 18s. she could not pay it.—
A copy, however, having conic to the Home
Otliee, it wasforwarded to the Learned Gentlemen
who vresented it. lie should wait to ascertain

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[PRICE SEVENTENcp,.

whether the Noble Lord would accept of his,sug.
gestioo.
Sir F. Btfanatt said, that seeing these unknown,
illegal, and 'unconstitutional practices augment
and increase, and that they were intended to be
carried-toil much greater. extent, he hoped the
Noble Lord would not alter his motion, which be
consideredlo be asking for as little as possibly
could be required. in 1796, he (Sir IS,) had made
a similar motion, and there was no hesitation in
granting it by the Ministers of the day. It wni
known that those persons were never called on to
answer the charges against them ; but the Bill of
Indemnity proved that those who had broken the
laws were the Ministers themselves. They did
not, however, at that time object to giving all the
particulars of the pPrsons in custody when they
were moved for. He could not think that there
ever was any reason for depriving the petsons
now put on their trial from all intercourse with'
the rest of the world and keeping them in siteh
a state, without absolute necessity, he held
w he a gross violation of the rights of thepeople
on the part of Ministers. Surely the House bad
a right to inquire of Ministers who they had taken
up, and to see that they were not deprived,..-of
common necessaries and common iotercourstois—
The absence of the Noble Lord (Castlereagh),
who knew of the present motion, was not le-
specttul to the House. His official duties, ,M
urged by. the Right Hon. Gehtleman, were no
excuse he might Probably be even Jost. -now
takiuga ride in the Park for the- benefit of- his
health. But he should hope the House, whose
liberties were as much at stake as those of the
rest of the people, world not so tar yield as to
let the. motion of the Noble Lord be .overthrowit.
The fact was, that, as in other arbitrary. coon-
tries, the Executive Government were the jailors
of the people, whom they caused to he .appre-
hended,, and they took upon themselves to.direct
the treatment that their victims should receive.

Mr. CANNING said, the. speech of the Noble
Lord, and that of the Noble Baronet, by far the
greater part, alluded to the eanficlettee the House
was pleased to impose on the Executive Govern-
ment ; or rather, to the great burthen that it had
been pleased to imposed on them hy the ex-
traordinary poWers which they were celled on
to exert through the unparalleled CirCHUISUMCCS
of the times. The Honourable Baronet had
endeavoured to persuade the House to repent
of its decision, and to doubt whether it was not
worse than not granting the power at all. Such
suspicions were calculated to give to the 'disaffect-
ed new spirits and Oewcouragent the present .tno-,
ment—a moment more dangerous and alarming
than arty that had yet arrived. Was 'it pretended
not to be a matter of notoriety that this very day
had brought to the metropolis account; of the per-
fection of those very plans which theSe measureS
were intended to frustrate and prevent ? At this
very moment the Noble Lord, if he persisted in his
motion, as well as the Honourable Baronet, would
endeavour to persuade the House, that, the
power given to 'the 'Ministers to protect the
Constitution was monstrously granted, and that
the trust ought to be recalled, because it
had been monstrously abused. Such insinuations
would give unjust countenance to suspicions for
which there tees no possible foundation. There
was no disposition to conceal from the House the
number of persons imprisoned, the fact of the
places in which they were confined, or their ages.
It it were to Corm a ground of suspipiou, where
would be the data that could be granted to mime
a true and just return, and a clear comparison with
faets as they should be hereafter established ? But
if the names were gived, it would tend to afford
intelligence to the disaffected in the country,
through the meditohof that House, at a.moment
when partial arrests were still taking place. He
would not presume to anticipate what would be the
report of the Secret CoMmutee, or the future dee
vision on the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act..
,But as the motion might prejudge the report 61 the
Committee, he thought that, without saying what
the decision might tie, there were sufficient reason,
for arresting it in its present state. lie',
howeyer, could not think that the Noble
Lind was not aware of the extent of the cense-
quences that might.arise from the entertainment
'of such a motion, and the arguments by whiclt
the lion. Baronet had supported it. Such an af-
fitmatioe of this motion would tend to create an
additional number of deluded victims, and afford
eneottragement to disaffection, which it must be
the utun object of ,the lionse to allay. 116
should therefore move as an amendment to leave
Out the word " Names and descriptions," and to
add, " Au account of the number of perions now
in confinement, with their age 4, and places where
they lare,coilfined."
Mr. rolewszsy was a good deal surprised at
what .had passed. The :Hight Hon. Gentleidio,
wooed surely feel no disposition to accuse hint of
wishing to eecourage disaffection ; but what he
was surprised at was, that he should hgfee to
such an amendment and oppose the original reo-
thin. Did' not the disaffected know at this too-
went who were taken up ? It was impossible to
prevent the friends and neighbours of any mitt
so apprehended from knowing the fact as soon as
it happened. What seciet, then, could be cont.
municated to them 14 exposing the names ? To
his understanding it was ithOossible any danger
could arise from it. He could not believe" but
what it was impossible to he of any inconvenience
either to the persons or the Government. Indeed,
he considered the motioo and the amendinent to
be Substantially the same.
Mr. B. Bkrtionsr attributed the motive of the
Noble Lord who Made the motion, to be, Wee-
ease Government of improper treatment of indi.;.
vitloals,---(No, no !)—Then, why object to the
amendment, which withheld the names ? In va.

tions parts of the ebutstty there Might he a en
oection amongst the disaffected, but not such a
coneeCtion as might cause persons to ketsw who
been taken up et hundreds of miles distance.
The giving of the numbers and ages would pre-
vent the knowledge' by their partisans of what
particular persons had been apprehended; but the
names could be of no other purport than to form
ground of imputation against Ministers, whieli
meat have the.effect of weakening the hands, of
Government, %%bete measure', miler present cir-
'eumstanees; -had alteady obtained the coefetence
of the House, and were exerted for the benefit of
the whole community.
Sir YV. ,Th.futtows Cbald *TIM conceive teliat
grounds there could be ter refitting the names,
which could not be much longer kept secret. The
Calendar, of every Assize published the names of
II 1 1 persons in custody. The moues would slew
whether or not any man of rank, character, and
property had been taken up, and, no doubt, would
influence the House as to the propriety of-renew-
ing the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act or not.
All the dangers which existed in 1796 were net of
tbeettestion-e-they were at proem purely domestic.
Sued measures were better adapted for ages of bar-
barism. bras it not the duty of the House to
look at every act of the Government with sus-
picion and jealousy, and was there to he no
anxiety to inquire who the persons were that had
been thrown into prison. and in what situation
they found themselves 1. For his part be saw no
danger at all in granting the motion, and he could
scarcely persuade himself that Gentlemen could
be sericite; in their objections to it. It was of
the utmost importance to have a descriptioo of
their persons and their sitoationa in life, as well
as their names, to see if the return contained any.
• • persona of weight and consequence ; but. if they
fete all poor, it was too much to entrust Mini-
sters with such power. As, therefore, the amend-
ment was for the purpose of keeping Pack from
the House very necessary infOrmatiun, he hoped
-it eeneld be negatived,
Lord FOLKST9Ne,. in reply, observed, that his
other motion event ccfesiderably farther; there-
fore; if Were was ary difference in the view he
bad taken of the subject then and now, he was
.justified in it ; but lie would deny that there was
any difference. He thought the information he
'had moved for, and which the Amendmeet would
throw out, of the utmost importance with regard
to the. renewed Suspension of the Huheas Corpus'
Act. If lie was aware of any mischief likely to
•eusue, he would not have mule the motion ; but
be was not aware, even after what ,be lad beard
from the Right l'oeottrable Geetlentate, that
there was any Mischief to be apprebeeded.—
,The Amendment being. substantially the ,time. us
the motion, it was a sort of sarcasm to say, that
if the motion cattle front the Right lion. Gentle-
mawhimself, there tveuld be no mischief at all.
The mischief then, it appeared, Was, from the
Mover, end not from the question.—(Latighter.)
How would the motion encourage the disaffect-
ed 1 If would not be ninny wet ks before the Ca-
lendar would be published at the Quarter Sessions
In every county townin England, and then all the
names must be published, It was ,ahsurd, v. hen
Government was so very vigilant, to say that. the
House was not la know the ovules 0 conspirators
taken sill, lest other conspirators Omelet leave them.
Then, they said, there was extreme danger in the
Home being made acqueinfed with the iitliatiOni in,
life, trades, and occupat iota of these people; this was
most, important,; for if, as had come to his know-
ledge; they had not the means to stir up. consei-
taeles, nor:even Ale means to buy apair of shoes,
it Was fit the House should know 'whether such
persons could possibly be dangerous to the State.
No danger had arisen on any other occasion, though
such a motion had been made over and over again.
Ministers talked le great deal show their respoosi-
hairy and the burthen of it; but what was it ?
Nothing at all. If, with the load Of responsibility
oo their shoelders, information is sought for, they
get rid of the burthen and refuse it. He should,
certainly, persist its the ot iginal motion.
• The House then divided on the motion,

Ayvi
Noes t U 4
Aiajurity against. it 1-51
Mr. C. Dusnas presented apetition from Berk-
shirt, signed by great numbers at freeholders,
which wss seconded by Lnrd POT.KESTONR, who
said, that it was signed at one of the largest meet-
ings known at Reading, and on a clay which was
not a market-day. '!'beta had been previously a
strong attempt at opposition by what was called
the Pitt Club, but it had no effect on the general
opinion and feeling ; and only two'hands were held
up against the,petition. The petitioners stated
their alarm at the renewal of the Suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act.
After a few words from Mr. Sitaw LETLVRE,
the petition was ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. BENNETT moved an Address for a Copy of
the Report of the Committee appointed to inquire
into the state of jurisprudence in Guernsey, with
various other particulars.
Mr, BRAGGE BATHURST opposed the motion, as
inquiry bad been made, and was !nom -ding
in a way which he hoped would terminate satis-
factorily.
Sir J. NEWPORT made some observations.
Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST observed, that the island
was jealous concerning its privileges.
Mr. BENNETT remarked, that really those islands
paid no taxes ; at least, comparatively speaking.
he motion was negatived.
BOROUGH It,EPRESENTATION.

Sir FRANC/4 BURDETT had to pi CUM a Petition
,whirl gave a frehh in,tancc of the destructive
anorality of the Borough-mongering system. 11
YVaS from a person of the Borough of Haz
who stated that at the last Ueneral Election cer-
tain property had been conveyed to him by Lord
Londsdalv, to enable him to give Ilia vote in favour
of the Candidates proposed by his Lordship. lie
came in fain under the denomination of what, in
Borough-mongering language, iS called a Faggot.
these Illettus.bad two Gentlemen been return-
ed to that House. Now this person had a quaint
of conscictme as to delivering again to Lord Loostiale the property which had been conveyed to
blot to suit the occasion. 1k thought it would
be improper not, to keep that which be had sivot n
to be his own. in consequence of this determi-
nation, he stated, that hc had 3uttercti much per-

seentioe at Ole instigatlon or tortl Onaile. Ile
still held the property, but he bad at last been
`served with an ejectment by Lord Lortadate. lie
(Sit. L'. B.) thought it impossible, when the Peti-
tTatt should have been read, that the llonse shonld
take no further step against a practice which was
'the worst of treason, for it involved every ft at ure
of that crime which was odious and disgusting; it
was a violation of the Cnt►ttitotion, and combined
perjury will' ingratitude, want of faith with breach
of trust. It e;as a nriniat mite pictin e,•eompre-
'lending all offences, and presenting an exact re-
semblance of the Borough-niongering system
It was that system which created the dissatisfac-
tion which the Ministry wished to put down by
force. 'nit pithiie at l,!tge kilekv that thil kttl
a right to be represented, and that no Peer should
interfere in-thv sleet ion o Members, Nay, there
were Resolutions on,the Journals of the House,
making it a breach of its privileges, and color.
(pettily of those of the people, for any Peer so to
interfere.—And what a system. which went in
defiance to rights, privileges, and resolutions, to
beloderated It was
combination and a torus indeed,
To winch had.every Devil set hi. seal,
To give the world asiurAnee of a Fiend."
He concluded by moving that the PatitiOn be
brought up.
'Mr. BAN Es asked xvhat were the complaintand
the prayer of the Petition ?
Si-i F. BURDETT
.teplieti, that it complained of
vindictive persecution on account of an election,'
and prayed for what redress the House 'et tild af-
ford.

Mr. BANKEI conceived, that as the Pe►ition did
not state what !node of relief could' be given, and
as proceeding* seen►cil to be pending in the Courts
1) low, it was not one of those which ,the House
Could receive.

Mr. BRAND contended, that as the Petition in•
volved a practice highly disgraceful to the [loose,
if the facts were true, it (night at least to he read.
Eyen should its prayer be most contemptible, some
steps should be tal.en on the other points.

BATtfuttsT did ►►ut see how the Rouse
could take any step on the subject. It could not
recal the dechion of the Committee held at the
time on Ole election.

Sir H. PARNELL and Mr. P. Moottg spoke in
favour of allowing the Petition to be brought up
and read, in order to Arid an opportunity to the
House to cooider whether it. ought to be re-
ceived.

Mr. W. SMITH inquired whether there was any
Order of the House to prevent a Member from
reading the whole of a Petition which he was pre.
tenting ? If the, case stated in the present Peti.
tion, as he understood it, were right, the follirw.
ing dilemma would ensue :—A conveyance. exe-
cuted in all the forms required, always conveyed
a bons fide property. If the person in question
could not he ejected, then he had been pvrsecnt-
If he could be ejected, then an act Of bribery
and intertcrence hail taken place in the election
of a Mcitibtr, which called for some proceeding on
the part of Parliament.
The SPRAKER, its reply to the appeal made
to him, stated that it teal inconsistent with the
general practice of the House, for a Member to
lead the whole of any Petition which he might it•
tend to present. It was also competent for the
House to deCide on the fate of a Petition before
it bad been read, as %% ell as on any other stage.
Mr. CURWEN thought that the House could
not shut its ears to a Petition which asserted that
practices againtlt its honour had taken place..
After a few Words from Sir R. FERGUSON and
Sir F. BURDETT, the latter of whom Slated, that
if the House- rejected the present Petition it
would be competent for him to bring the subject
up again 'before it in the shape of a motion, the
House divided.-,-

For Iniifing ap the Petition . . IS
Ag4inst n
hiliFot it y opiust the Petition
DROJTS OF THE ADMIRALTY
At the suggestion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQ.UR, Sir 3. MACKINTOSH postponed his
motion tecreting the bruit: of Admiralty till
Tuesday next,

Citl. of Limerick, in Ile ronni Of Colonel V,re-
ker, now 3 Peer of the United
tiered, After n few word from Mr. roltsonhY•

The Civil Services Recompense Bill was read n
third time, and passed. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EiccittEauErt 61fwiett
leave to bring in a Bill to permit the TrAnsfer
Capital front certain public srdeks and fonds in
Great Britain, to certain public, stocks and fonds
in Ireland, rafter 0. few words From Sir .1. N -
()Ott Hlld Mr. V. Fitzgerald.
The East India Mediterranean Trade Bill was
read a Wild time, and passed-
Mr. Bnoonas brought up the Report of the
Committee on the Consolidated Food ; the Reso-
lutions were agreed to, nod Bills ordered ac-
tordinglv.
The Clergy Residence' 13111, went through
Committee, the clauses %vele till agread to after
various amendments ; after which the House re-
sumed, and the Report was ordered to be received:
The other Orders of the Day were then dispos-
ed of, and the House adjourned.

THEATRICAL REGISTER.
Performed Last Might.
Datitav-LANE,—The Hypocrite: Doctor Cantwell, Mr. Dow-
' ton; Charlotte, Mts. Davison. After which, The Rival Sol-
diers, and Iti Con.
CoveNT-Gitsthert.--,Hartilet : Hamlet, Mr. Eemble ; Ophelia,
Miss Stephens. After which, NO Sup! No Supper, and A
Diertisernent.
New Tutanse !them., Exontstt DerriA-Hotist.,--The Elec-
tion : Mr. Baltimore, Mr. 11. Johnstone; Miss Charlotte
Preen:tan, Miss Kelly. After which, Prce aid Easy.

b1.111:4.
Atitirvm--1 Prance, 1 liambnr;h, 1 Waterford.
Dur—t Gottenburgli, I Ituuburg, I Guernsey and Jersey,
1 Dublin.

PRICE OF STOCKS
Till* Y A'l• rwilve. n'cLocK.

per Cent. Reel. 72i if I India 80nd5,.....525. 89q. pr.
3 per Cent. Cons.-- shut , Exch. Bilis,. 9s. Its. pr.
4 per Clint* Cues. far July,
5 pig. Cent. Nary Ann....shut

HIGH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE TO-MORROW.
Morning, 14 ininntes after 1. I Evening, 3'9 minutes atter 1.

THE SUN.

1101.145 t curs DICER 'MAWS AUDI %I'

LONDON,
THURSDAY, JUNE 12, 1817: