The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-25 00:00:00

IMPEItIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 24.

The SPEAKER took the Ciair at Twelve o'clock.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from Durham„de-
precating the practice of opening letters at the Post-office,
and praying the House to make such practice illegal.
• TURNPIKE TRUSTS (WALES) BILL.
Sir J. GRAHANI moved the order of the day for
going into Committee on this Bill.
Mr. J..H. VIVIAN moved that it be an instruction
to the Committee that they-have power to include high-
ways and countybridges within the provisions of the Bill.
He quite agreed with the principle of this measure, which
be looked upon as a great experiment, and one likely to
Prove very beneficial. He thought, however, they ought
to go one Ltep further, and include highways and county
bridges in the operation of the Bill.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM did not wish to embarrass
the Committee with any. consideration as to highway-
rates, and the manner in which they should be levied.
This Bill had received the fullest consideration of the
Government, and it might be extended or
.altered in
Committee, if the Committee should think fit to do so.
Colonel TREVOR asked if, in case en abolition of
certain tolls shOuld take place in Wales; the Right lion.
Gentleman would be prepared to sanction compensation
being afforded to the clerks of the turnpike trusts ?
. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he was not prepared at
present to say that he would sanction such compensation.
'After a few words from Mr. Ginsos CRAIG and Mr.
WILLIAMS, the amendment aas negatived without a
division.
The. Route then went into Committee on the Bill.
On clause 1 being proposed, in answer to a question
from Colonel TREVOR,
.Sir JAMES GRAHAM said it was not the intention
'of the Government to continue the Turnpike Trust Com •
Mission beyond the 29th September in the next year.
Indeed, it was with considerable reluctance that the
Government continued it to that time, as the expense of
the Cotrimission was defrayed out of the public purse,
and not out of any local tax.
The elanse was agreed to.
Clause 2 was also agreed to.
On clause 3 being proposed, -
Mr. MACKINNON said he thought it would be bet-
ter to abolish -tolls altogether, and substitute a rate upon
houses in its stead.—The clause was agreed to.
Clauses 4 to 8 were agreed to.
On clause 9, Sir J. WALSH moved an amendment,
defining the debts of turnpike trusts, but it was opposed
.11 Sir J. GRAHAM, and withdrawn, and the clause,
with've-rbal amendments, was agreed to.
Clauses froM 10 to 24. were agreed to without dis-
mission.
On the clause proposing the rate of interest in
the Government Loan as 5L ss. per cent.;
Mr. WILLIAMS suggested that the rate should be
reduced tei 5/. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
think that the conduct of persons borrowing from the
Government could be taken as an element in the calcu-
lation of the amount of interest they were to pay.
.Colonel TREVOR would be disposed 'to agree to
terms which would 'press more lightly on those who
Were to-pay than those proposed in the clause under
consideration,.but he did not think that money could be
got on terms more favourable than those proposed by the
Government.' • •
After a short discussion the clause was agreed to.
On clause 39 being proposed,
Colonel. TREVOR said he would take that oppor-
Utility of statink, in . reference to the petition he pre•
. seated befinv the House went into Committee; that he
trusted compensation would be granted to the clerks
under the-turnpike trust. • •
Sir J. GRAHAM said that, under the large powers
given to the county boards, they would have the means
of selecting the most meritorious clerks, and providing
'or them 'Under the new Act. But he should resist the
Principle Of giving compensation to clerks who held their
-9tlices only during pleasure.—(Hear, hear.)
• Clauses up to 53 were agreed to.
On clause 53 being proposed,'
'Colonel WOOD (Brecon) said he hoped the clause
Would be. 'withdrawn. The clause recognised an une'-
(Dial thllage. He thought it would be bettor if the Will-
age was uniform. • _ _ -

Colonel TREVOR thought the clause was a re-
lieving one.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the clause, as now framed, was
a relief to the toll-payers.
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses up to 58 inclusive were agreed to.
On clause 59 being proposed,
Colonel WOOD said he had, in an earlier part of the
session, suggested the propriety of exempting lime from
toll. He now hoped the Committee would enter into a
compromise, and fix the tolr on lime at a load.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM did not think it was expe-
dient to reduce the toil on lime.
Colonel WOOD said that lime was very extensively
Used in the Principality as manure, and as throughout
the country, all manure was exempt from toll, he thought
it vk as unjust not to reduce the toll on lime.
The motion was then negatived without a division.
Mr. J. H. VIVIAN then moved that coal be place
on the same footing as lime.
The proposition, however, was rejected.
The clause then agreed to.
Clauses up to 75 inclusive were agreed to.
On clause 76 being proposed,
Mr. J. H. VIVIAN moved to strike out so much of
the Clause as distinguished branch roads from main
roads, in order to abolish such distinction.
Sir • j. GRAHAM said this was a very important
question,"and before he made up his opinion upon it he
would be glad to hear the opinion of gentlemen who
were really acquainted with the subject.
Colonel TREVOR was of opinion that it • would be
very beneficial to the Principality of Wales if they abo-
lished these side-bars, and the distinction to which the
Hon. Member for Swansea (Mr. Vivian) had alluded.
Dr. NICHOLL expressed the. same opinion.
Colonel WOOD supported the amendment.
Mr. CRIPPS thought it would be beneficial to abolish
the
distinction between branch and main roads.
Aftei a brief discussion the clause was agreed to.
Clauses" p to 81 were agreed to.
On clause 82 being proposed, '
Colonel WOOD said that the landlords of the Prin-
cipality of Wales were most willing to take on them•
selves the liabilities of existing debts, but the present
clause gave'power to the boards to borrow fresh money.
This would subject them to new debts, and against this
he, for one, should protest.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM thought the House would
act very improperly in buying up these* roads and pre-
venting them from borrowing money for the purpose of
improving the roads.
After some observations from Colonel WOOD, and
Mr. WILLIAMS; the clause was agreed to.
On clause 83 being proposed,
Mr. J. H. VIVIAN moved several amendments which
!ere not agreed to.
The clause was afterwards agreed to with some verbal
amendments.
Clauses 84, 85, 86, and 87, were agreed to with some
verbal amendments. •
Clauses 88 and 89 were agreed to without alteration.
Clause 90 was agreed to with some verbal amend-
°lents.
The remaining clauses were then agreed to ; the
Chairman reported progress, and the report was ordered
to be brought up to-morrow.
Mr. COW PER presented a petition from a place in
*Yorkshire, in favour of the Field Gardens Bill. .
Mr. P. M. STEWART presented a petition from the
eneral Assembly of the Free Church of Scotland, in
favour Of the Presbyterian Marriages (Ireland) Bill.
NOTICES OF MOTION.—UNION WORK-
HOUSES.

Captain .PECHELL gave notice that he would, to-'
morrow, move for a return of the union workhouses in
Which mills orinachinery for the crushing of bones have
been erected, tocrether with the date of their erection.
-HEALTH OF TOWNS.
•„. Mr. MACKINNON gave notice that he would, on
Tuesday, the 30th of July, call the attention of the
Ykitise to the report of the Committee on the Health of
gowns, and also to the report of the Ecclesiastical Cora-
Inissioners, signed by the Archbishop of Canterbury and
the Bisho of London, in which it was stated that the
burial of p
ersons in churchyards in towns was injurious.
GAMING.
Mr..
BUTVERIE gave notice that he would move that
a message-be sent to the House of Lords, to ask for the,
I,,ekort of the Select Committee on Gaming.
LusToirts FRAUDS—PRINTING OF THE RE-

PORT FOR THE USE OF MEMBERS.
Mr. HUME said that after he left the House last
'light a resolution had been come to that the report on
the Customs Frauds should be printed for the use of
Members only., He should like to know what was the
'neaning of those words " for the use of Members only ?"
or what would be the consequence if it fell into the
hands
of another person ? He only wanted to know
What was the feeling of the House.
Sir J. GRAHAM said it was thought more expe-
dient by the House that the report should be printed for
the use of. Members only.
Mr. fIUME said it was altogether novel.
Sir J. GRAHAM—It was by no means novel, for many
Petitions had been printed for the use of Members only.
Mr. DuNCOMBE said he'had altered the motion he
niakie last night, for the publication of the evidence, at
the anggestion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
though he stated at the time that it was a most
urd proposition. Suppose the report were ly-
tqh en his (Mr. Duncombe's) table, and a gentleman
Should take hold of this blue book, was he to say,
k Don't touch that, it is for the use of Members only; if
' do, I shall call a policeman ?"—(Hear, hear, and
".pghter.) He really wished to know whether
they were to keep this blue book locked up
•,. 3n their desks or drawers and not show to any indi-
"adual but some other Member of the House of Commons?
when that House ceased its labours what was to become
of these blue books ? They were for the use of Mew!
berg
only, that was for the use of Members of that
, use. The public would be much disappointed at the
uoterminatitm which the House had come to last night,
-and he hoped the Government would reconsider the re-
!olution.and do as it had done on a former occasion,
11iduce the House to rescind it.—(Loud laughter.)
'when the evidence was first printed, it was done on
C9tidition that only one copy should be placed in the
library of the House. The Chancellor of the Exche!
%Ler had now consented to print 658 copies, for the use
of lion. Members only. He now asked him to go one
!!el) further, and print it for the use of the public
i'mogether. He wished to know whether he should be
guilty of a breach of privilege if he allowed any indivi-
dual to see this book, except Members of the House
°l_ Commons ? The resolution completely defeated
object of a pill brought into that House, to
enable it to sell its reports and documents. Sup-
pose the the newspapers should publish any portion
this evidence. He supposed they would be liable to
laction; but if he (Mr. Duncombe) were to publish it,
! wanted to know if he would be liable