The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-26 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

1101.75 E OF LORDS, APRIL 25.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his. seat on the
Wooleack at twenty minutes after five o'clock.
L.urd LAUDERDALE presented a petition from the
Proprietors of a Private Mad-house against the County
Lunatics' Asylum Bill.
A similar petition was presented by the Earl of ELDON
from the proprietors of a Mad-house in Manchester. The
Noble Earl presented a petition from the parish of St.
Nicholas, Surrey, against further concessions to the Ca-
tholics.

The petitions were laid on the table.
A Message was brought from the Commons by Sir ALEX •
ANDLR. GRANT and others, communicating that the Com-
mons had given permission to David Barclay, Esq. (one of
their members) to be examined before their Lordships on
the second reading of the Penryn Disfranchisement Bill.
Sir A. GRANT and others brought lip the Dover Har-
bour Bill.
Sir T. ActLANn and others brought the Honiton Road
Bill.

Mr, LITTLETON and others brought isp the Surrey Coal
Meters Bill.
Mr. Crafer, from the Treasury, presented a return of
the increase and diminution of salaries in the public offices
during the last Year.
Lord TORRINGTON presented a petition from a parish
in Kent, against any further concessions to the Catholics.
Similar petitions were presented from Cleveland, and
another place in Yorkshire, by the Archbishop of YoeK.
The Bishop of DURHAM presented a similar petition
from the Archdeacon and Clergy of the Diocese of Oxford.
The Earl of RADNOR presented petitions from the Ro-
man Catholics of Reading and of Whitebaven, playing
that they might be relieved from civil disabilities on account
of their religious opinions.
The Bishop of WINCHESTER presented a petition
from Cobham, in Surrey, itgainst further concessions to
the Roman Catholics: and also a petition from the same
place, praying for the abolition of slavery.
The Duke of WELLINGTON presented a petition from
Manchester, praying that the Bill for transferring the
franchise front Penryn to Manchester might not pass into
a law in its present form.
Lord CARNARVON moved, that witnesses to be e:,-a-
,,reined on the second reading of the Penryn Bill should be
directed To produce certain letters.
Lord ELDON conceived that the House ought to
he very• cautious how it made such a direction; he thought
the House could go no further in this respect than a
Court of Law.

Earl GREY considered it quite competent to direct
the letters to be pralveed• When the witnes,es were
41)out to he examined, it might then become, a question
whether the letters ought to be read or not.
SUBJECTS FOR DISSECTION.
_ .

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE held in his hand a great
many retitiqns from different parts of the country, signed
by the most respectable members of the medical profession,
praying for the removal of the impediments that now ex-
isted in the way of dissection, and which he thought de-
serving the attention of the Hense. One petition was from
the Physicians, Surgeons, and Pupils of the Medical School
in Webb-street, London ; another from the Medical Society,
Edinburgh, incorporated by Royal Chatter ; another from
the Physicians and Surgeons qf Wakefield, another from
Manchester; and another from Bradford, Yorkshire.
Several other petitions were presented.
Lord DARNLEY postponed his motion regarding fru-
ldsul to Thursday next.
TEST AND CORPORATION ACTS.

On the motion for the order of the day upon the Test
and Corporation Acts Repeal Bill,
The Earl of ELDON rose, and said that having an alte-
tation to propose in the preamble of the second clause, he
should suave that the following words be left out :—" And
whereas the Protestant Episcopal Church of England and
Ireland, and the doctrine, discipline, and government
thereof, and the Protestant Presbyterian Church of Scot-
land, and the doctrine, discipline, and government thereof,
are by tlw laws of this realm severally established perma-
nently and inviolably." His reason for wishing those
words to be left out was, because he thought, and he again
teepeated that opinion, that that clause had been most insi-
diously introdumd,—not by those who harl introduced it
into the present Bill,—but had been most insidiously in-
troduced into those Bills and those measures from which it
had been most incautiously borrowed and introduced in this
Bill. It was not, however, his intention to divide the
House upon his motion, his object in moving it being
merely to have it entered upon the journals of this House
that he made such motion.

Earl GREY hoped that the assurance of the Noble awl I
:Learned Earl that he would merely move his amendment
pro fin-rma would be better observed than a similar assu-
rance made by the same Noble Earl last night. He then
assured their Lordships that he bad no intention of dividing
the house upon an amendment proposed by him, his only
object being to have it entered upon the Journals; upon
the faith of which assurance several Noble Lords went
away. Nevertheless, the Noble and Learned Earl thought
proper afterwards to divide the House upon his motion,
behind the backs of those Noble Lords whose reliance
up-eu the faith of his assurance had induced them to leave
the Rouse. He (Earl Grey) did not think it necessary to
detain their Lordships at present with the reasons fur
which he objected to the proposition • of the Noble and
Learned Lord ; because, according to the forms of their
Lordships' House, the Noble and Learned Lord was pre-
eluded from moving such a proposition, inasmuch as that
question had already been disposed of—it had been settled
by the decision of last night. In point of order, it was
not competent for the Noble and Learned Earl to make
this proposition now ; for their Lordships had already
passed the preamble of the Bill.--(" No, no," from some
Noble Lords.) He repeated that their Lordships had
already passed the preamble of the Bill, and if Noble
Lords would do him the favour to listen to him, 7ie would
convince them that what he said was correct. The Noble
and Learned Earl, their Lordships would recollect, had
moved the introduction of certain words, though what the
of these words could he, he (Earl Gray) was unable to
discover, into the preamble of the Bill. That proposition
was negatived. Their Lordships then proceeded beyond the
preamble, and the Noble and Learned Earl moved the in-
troduction of the words " that I am a Protestant" into
the declaration. Now that motion had been made, and was
under discussion, when it was agreed by the House, in
order to give some Noble Lords an opportunity of more
maturely considering its effects, to adjourn the further dis-
cussion of it until tosoilay. Therefore, he repeated, that in
point of order, according to the forms and rules of this
House, it was impossible for the Noble and Learned Earl
to make his present proposition in this stage of the Bill.
But it would be competent for the Noble and I earned Lord
at a future period, when the clause came to be.put, to ob-
ject to it altogether; or he might propose any amendment
be pleased upon the third reading of the Bill.
The Earl of ELDON should feel himself most highly
culpable indeed if he had pursued the course ascribed to
him by the Noble Earl ; but in point of fact the Noble
Earl was altogether mistaken. He would ask those Noble
Lords who bad attended to the procee lings last night,
if the House had even come to that part of the Bill which
he now proposed to omit ? On the contrary, he asserted
that the further consideration of the subject was post-
poned before ha moved his intended amendment, that the
words, " I am a Protestant," should be introduced into
the Bill. The Noble Earl was also mistaken when he
stated that he (Lord Eldon) said it was only his intention
to move his amendmeitpro forma. Me had said no such
thing, and if he had been understood to say so, he was ex.
tretaely sorry for having been so misconceived. But be
could assure the Noble Earl that there was no man who
heard him more anxious to uphold and observe the forms and
rules of this House Atari he was ; he would rather that the
whole of this wretched paltry Bill, ranch as he objected
to it, should pass, without the slightest amendment, than
that he should be in any manner guilty of an infringement
~f them. However, after what the Noble I?.arl had stated,
he was now determined not to press his amendment.
Earl GREY was sorry the Noble and Learned Earl
should think he treated him with any want of candour ;
but he was not at all sensible of having done so. What
the Noble and Learned Earl had meant by what he said
last night, he (Earl Grey) was unable to sae; hut, judging
from what he said, and front the impression which it con-
veyed, not only to his mind but to the minds of other
Noble Lords near hint, lie certainly understood him to
111C311 what he (Earl
„Grey) had already stated. But if the
Noble and Learned Earl disclaimed any such intention, he
(Earl Grey) was of course bound to believe that he had
misconceived what he had said. The Noble and Learned
Earl now offered to withdraw his proposition iu compli-
ment to him (Earl Grey) ; but he wanted nothing front
the Noble and Learned Earl out c: compliment. He re-
prated, that the proposition couy tun. now be brought
forward.
The Earl of ELDON had only to say,. upon his honour,
he never did move that amendment. [Earl Grey. ` Theo
it is upon the minutes."] He knew it was so placed upon
the minutes, because the Noble Earl had read it to him ;
but he would assert that whoever bad so placed it upon
the minutes, had done so without being warranted by
the fact.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that as far as he re-
collected, the course of proceeding last night had been
this—the Noble and Learned Lord moved au amendment,

which was negatived : he afterwards stated, that he meant
to move another amendment, introducing the words " I
am a Protestant" into the declaration, and proceeded to
state the grounds on which he meant to move that amend-
ment. Some Noble Lords then proposed that the subject
should stand over till to-night, in order to give them an
opportunity of considering it; upon which it was moved
that the question be adjourned to this evening ; but
he did not think, to the best of his memory, that his
Noble and Learned Friend had moved his amendment.—
(Hear) hear.)

Lord MOLL AND—There must have been a motion
before the House, my Lords, last night, when the discus-
sion took place, for the Noble and Learned Lord, who
knows the orders of the House so well, would hardly ad-
dress your Lordships, without there had been a motion
before you. It is idle to appeal to your recollection, when
you have written documents. At the opening of the pi e_
sent Session, my Lords, we heard something said about
the convention of the Turks ; that there was no necessity
for them signing a written treaty, inasmuch as their recol-
lection was so good, that nothing was wanting to make
them complete their engagements. But we, my Lords,
are merely Christians, we have not memories so excellent,
we are not so accurate—(a laugh)—thereftme, we are
obliged, in conformity to the forms of the House, to have
the proceedings of your Lordships written down and kept
on the Journals. There was a discussion last night, my
Lords, on the amendment proposed by the Noble and
Learned Lord. The motion was made. It must have
been made. What was said on the occ.ision was a proof
of it. Those two speeches made by the Noble and
Learned Lord himself proved the fact. I did not rise,
my Lord, to offer any reason why the amendment should
not be adopted by your Lordships, as the question has
been already disposed of. lam a plain man, and no law-
yer ; I have—s.

- nor utterance, nor the power of speech,
To stir men's blood : I only speak right ou ;
I tell you that which you yourselves do know.

---- But were I Brutus,

And Brutus, Antony
then, my Lords, we should hear what a lamentably grie-
vous thing it was to destroy the rules and the precedents
of the House.—(Laughter and cheers.) What horror
would it occasion ! Should such a course be pursued as
that pt•at!tised by the Noble and Learned Lord on the pre-
sent occasion, it would be in the power of any one man to
prevent any Bill from passing through the House. And
when your Lordships had decided on a clause, your time
might he wasted with proposing one amendment after ano-
ther, in different stages of the Bill. But the Noble and
Learned Lord must abide by the written document ; and
fortunately for himself, and fortunately for the House, he
could not bring the question again forward, as it was
clearly against all rule, all order, and all precedent.—
(Hear.)
The Earl of ELDON—After what bad fallen from the
Noble Baron, respecting the attachment he was supposed
to feel towards the rules and orders of the House, felt
bound to declare, that he did not entertain that devoted attach-
ment to all the mules and usages of that House. But that
Noble Lord, like the greater number of politicians, thought
it was impossible for a diwyer to be possessed of the least
political knowledge, while he (Lord E.) never yet knew a
great politician who did not at the same time consider him-
self an excellent lawyer. He would accordingly compli-
ment the Noble Lord, not merely upon being a student,
but upon being a great judge of law. He would feel it
nec.2ssaty, in all probability, to say not a little, but a great
deal, upon the third reading of the Bill ; and if no per-
son in the House had any motion to make immediately, he
would at once proceed to move upon the subject of the
declaration.

• The Duke of WELLINGTON suggested that it would
be perhaps as well that the Order of the Day were read,
before their Lordships proceeded farther.
The Order of the Day for the farther censideration of
the Report upon the Tot and Corporation Acts Repeal
Bill was then read.

After an observation from Lord HOLLAND that was
not audible below the bar, the
The Earl of ELDON rose, and said, that though the Nob7e
Lord and himself were never Rely to agree upon the Bill
now unforomately under consideration, they were never
likely to disagree from any want of temper on either side.
He then said lie would move that the word " swear" be
substituted for " declare," in' the dsclaration.

Earl GREY thought that the discussion ought to be re..
sullied where it had been broken off on the preceding night.
He was very much surprised at the doubt expressed by the
Noble and Learned Lord upon the Woolsack, when they had
the writte❑ record in the minutes, that the motion had been
made and placed under discussion. lie had in the first in-
stance stated, that this was a case from recollection only ;
hut he had since found by the record he was correct; at
least, he firmly believed he was so; for be could not bring
himself to think that the record was t.,tlse; though he cer-
tainly would not hesitate to express his wish that their
Lordship? debates should be carried on with less laxity for
the future.

The Earl of ELDON did not admit the fact; and still
dclared most solemnly he had not made the motion. That
which he was now about to introduce, he begged to be
understood, related only to the Corporation Act. It had
not the least relation to the Test Act. He protested most
solemnly that it was net his wish to make any alteration
in the Bill for the purpose in any way of affecting the
claims of the Roman Catholics. What he meant was,
that the Bill, which was one for the ease of. Protestant
Dissenters, should pass without in the slightest degree
promoting or retarding the Catholic Question. If he
thought his motion would retard that question, he would
not make it; and if, on the contrary, he thought that the
Bill, as it might at any time stand, would promote the
views of the Roman Catholics, he would consider it his
duty to oppose so much of it as he considered might
have the effect of forwarding these views. His anxiety
was, that the measure should he passed without affecting
the Roman Catholics in one way or other. He was aware
that it was believed by some Noble Lords on the other
side, that he felt otherwise; awl he accordingly considered
himself imperatively called en to make this solemn pro-
testation, .because he had always opposed the claims of the
Roman Catholics, and would ever continue to do so, un-
less he should hear some argument sufficiently powerful to
convince him of their Justice. He would make the motion
he proposed to make, beeause he considered that if the
word Protestant were not embodied in the declaration,
the Bill would most materially promote the claims of the
Roman Catholics. He repeated, this declaration had no-
thing to do with the judgment on any subsequent Bill, or
with the Test Act. He wished to be understood as direct-
ing his motion to the Corporation Act alone, which, after
disposing in a very summary way respecting the qualifica•
tions of individuals holding office, when it was passed, goes
on to state the law of the country with respect to those who
may be called to office for the future, and recites that no
man can be Mayor, or Alderman, or Willy, without hav-
ing taken the Sacramental Test twelve months before; but
thet e is not a single word about his taking it when he has
once been in office. The Test Act proceeds in another
way, and declares that persons cannot hold certain offices
of trust without having taken the Sacramental Test within
three months, or perhaps six months, from the time of
their entering on their office. The Corporation Act required
one to take the oaths in the Act, but not those in any subse-
quent Act ; nor does it render obligatory the declaration
against transubstantiation. And Le would ask, what Act
of Parliament was it that did render it necessary for cor-
porate officers to make this declaration ? A man <night
be Mayor, and, nevertheless, not he a Justice of Peace,
and so not be obliged to make the declaration. There
were two ways of making corporate officers Justices of the
Peace, the charter of the corporation, or by the act of
the Crown. There were not doubts wanting in books
even as to whether Justices of Peace were obliged to take
this declaration, but he was clearly of opinion that they
were. But, at all events the declaration in this Bill was,
as far as Corporations were concerned, evidently worth
nothing at all. He should be happy to hear the opinion
of his Noble and Learned Friend upon the woolsack, and
trusted it would coincide with his own.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, after the call made upon
him by his Noble and Learned Friend, felt bound to state
the opinion he entertained upon the subject, and he rejoiced
exceedingly that their Lordships had acceded to the propo-
sition made by the Noble Duke at the head of the Govern-
ment, of referring the further consideration of the question
until that <tight ; for he confessed that he did entertain
doubts from what had Leen brought forward by his Noble
and Learned Friend ; but an interval devoted to reflection
had since satisfied him that there was nothing of solidity
in the argument of his Noble and Learned Friend. He
could not bring himself to think that there was any thing
in the omission of the words " I am a Protestant," that
could affect the Catholic Question. Could he fancy fur a
moment that there watt, he would be one of the last per-
sons in the world to assist in carrying through that Inca-
sure ; but, satisfied that there was not, he would oppose
the <notion of his Noble and Learned Friend. :file ques-
tion fur consideration was simply this, whether if they did
not insert the words " I 402 a Protestant" Roman Catholics
would not enjoy the power of becoming governing Mem-
bers of Corporations. Now, how stood the law ? A go-
verning Me inlaer was at present obliged to take the sa-
cramental test within a certain period, and to take
the oath of supremacy upon his election. The queetem
then to be asked was, if the oath of supremacy was

not obligatory upon Roman Catholics—and, as far
as he could learn, and he made most extensive inquires,
and from those well qualified to give an opinion on :he
subject—the conviction established in his mind was, bat
the Roman Catholics did not consider this oath binding.
If so, then so long as it was necessary to take that oath, Ms
long must it be a bar to the Roman Catholic acting is a
governing member of a Corporation. But not to shp
there merely, he would go on and say, that he differed En-
tirely front his Noble and Learned Friend ; and when be
did so in the presence of their Lordships, he assured. tlum
it was with the greatest humility and deference to his last
knowledge, talents, and attainments ; but whatever might
he the opinion he entertained of the authority of an duli-
vidual, he felt that he was bound, by the importance of
the case, to exercise his own understanding, and he earn-
estly hoped, that upon that great principle he would ae
considered excusable by their Lordships in the course
he esteemed it his duty to pursue.—(flear, hear.)—
The Noble and Learned Lord asks, by what statute would
Roman Catholics lie prevented from becoming Members,
or, as he had rather put it, governing members of Corpora-
tions ? He would say, in answer, that a governing mem-
ber is bound by the operation of the Test Act ; and he
would pledge himself that any person who looked a second
time at that Act Would feel that the necessity of making the
declaration against transubstantiation was imposed, in the
strongest terms, upon all persons holding such offiers.
Ile had been duly impressed with the necessity of caution,
from what had fallen from his Noble and Learned Friend,
and he had accordingly written down the question—" It
governing officers of a Corporatiion be not in the. Magi-
stracy, do they make the declaration against transubstan-
tiation ?" He was anxious to ascertain what was the
practice, and he, in consequence, sent this question SO
written down to the Recorder of London—who stated, in
reply, that the custom uniformly was, that all classes of
governing officers, Aldermen, Common Councilmen, &e.,
should make this declaration. He referred them to the
Act of Parliament—he referred to the interpretation of the
law as evidenced in the practiers of the first Corporation of
England ; and upon these grounds he felt justified in
stating that there was a security. Ile conjured their
Lordships, therefore, not to support a motion that could
do no good, but was calculated only to produce irrita-
tion, and to promote mischief. When he looked at the
votes of the Commons, and saw they contained no
petitions against the measure, and at the Universi-
ties, which were ever the entire defenders of the Church,
and among whom the Church patronage was distributed,
and saw that neither University petitioned against the
Bill—when he witnessed the manner in which the Reve-
rend Bench supported the measure, with an eloquence and
talent rarely surpassed, he expected, their Lordships would
send out the Bill to the world in a kind spirit of concilia-
tion ; and, with these hopes, he was distressed beyond
measure at the course taken by his Noble and Learned
Friend (Lord Eldon) on the question, He knew the ta-
lents of his Noble and Learned Friend, and his zeal for the
interest of the Church, lint he regretted sincerely to see
these talents and zeal so mischievously employed on a sub-
ject so important to the peace and welfare of the country.—
(Cheering.)
The Bishop of DURHAM did not consider the Oath of
Supremacy a sufficient barrier against the admission of Ca-
tholics into Corporations; nor could he understand what
objection there could be to introduce the word Protestant
into the declaration. He should acknowledge that he saw
no reason for the repeal of those Acts in the petitions pre-
sented from Dissenters to that House, as all of those peti-
tions, except two, expressed detestation of the Established
Chnrch.—(" No, no.")—He thought the Test. Acts might
be given up, and an exemption made in favour of the Pro
testant Dissenters and the Church of Scotland.

The Earl of CARLISLE denied that the petitions pre-
sonted from the Dissenters contained sentiments hostile to

the Church Establishment,

The Earl of GUILFORD entertained every respect for
the high authority of the Noble Lord on the Woolsack, but
could not bring himself to acquiesce in his opinions.—For
the continuance of the Sacramental Test, he could vote
conscientiously on two grounds—political and religious; his
political reason was, that against danger to the State there
was no security, but in the conformity of the official per-
sons connected with the Church. Religiously speaking,
he would willingly abandon the Sacramental Test, if any
other adequate Test could be found ; but when he asked
himself whether he should support a Test, the taking of
which, if criminal at all, was only criminal in him that
falsely took it; or whether he would consent to abolish
that Test, and by doing so allow the privileges of the
Church to be trampled on, he must answer, let the Church
and her privileges stand.
The Earl of RODEN a ought that in the Bill before the
llouse, the Christian principle was overlooked, and the only
caution exhibited was for protecting the temporal privi-
leges of the church. He was sorry their Lordships did
not adopt the words proposed by a Noble Earl (Winchel-
sea) to he introduced into the declaration, namely, those
acknowledging the divinity of Jesus Christ. The phrase,
• " on the true faith of a Christian," was not a sufficient
substitute, as it was a question with many which was the
true Christian faith. He hoped the Bill as it now stood,
would not meet the approbation of the Christian public.
lie was sure the Dissenters themselves would see in it a
compromise of Christian boldness,and Protestant principle.
He regretted sincerely to see that the amendment, acknow_
ledging the divinity of Jesus Christ, was not supported by
the Reverend successors of Ridley and Latimer and Cran-
mer. As to the argument that the passing of the Bill would
tend to preserve the religious peace of the country, he
thought it would have quite the contrary effect, but even
though it should secure the peace of the country, he should
think the advantage dearly bought by the sacrifice.
The Bishop of LINCOLN—The Noble Lord (Roden)
had said, orintended to say, that the Reverend Bench, in
assenting to the declaration, had shewn greater regard to
temporal benefits, than for the spiritual welfare of ths
Church. But what was the question before the House?
The Bill for the repeal of two Acts of Parliament, which
excluded the Dissenters fronts offices in the State. Now,
what connection was there between the object of the
Bill and the spiritualities of the Church ?—(Loud
cheering.) The assertion of the Noble Earl could only
have arisen from confounding the two characters of the
Church, namely the political and spiritual. But in its spi-
ritual character, the Church could not be affected by any
Act of the Legislature ; it may be separated from the State;
its benefices may be transferred to the Clergy of another
persuasion. The Church, in its spiritual character, would
still continue to exist as a religious community—would sur-
vive as the primitive Church of Christianity did in its de-
cent forms, in its simple rites, and in the spiritual purity
and sublimity of its doctrines.—(Loud cheering from all
sides.)
The Bishop of CHESTER—The Noble Esti Roden
considered these Acts a religious security. He (the Bishop
of Chester) would contend that they were a political secu-
rity, and had nothing whatever to do in maintaining the re-
ligious part of the Church. It was very uncharitable in
the Noble Earl, who was remarkable for his zeal in defence
of the Church, to intimate that he and his Reverend Bro-
thers were induced to neglect the spiritual welfare of the
Church by a sordid regard for its temporalities—(Cheers.)
The Earl of RODEN explained.
Lord REDESDALE considered the insertion of the
word " Protestant" necessary and important; and should
therefore vote for the amendment of his Noble and
Learned Friend.
The Earl of ELDON was sure, when he reminded their
Lordships of the manner in which the Noble and Learned
Lord on the Woolsack had expressed his concern at the
course which he (Lord Eldon) was pursuing, their Lord-
ships would give him a patient hearing in answer to that
observation of the Noble and Learned Lord ; and first, he
hoped, that after the Noble and Learned Lord had passed
through as many years in the service of the State as he
(Lord Eldon) had done, he would hear it imputed to him
that he was employing his abilities in forwarding a mea-
sure mischievous to the interests of the country. He
(Lord Eldon) had served his country long and zealously.
and he declared to God that he believed, in all his public
life, he could not have done any thing so mischievous a'
forwarding the present measure. With that feeling he
should divide on his amendment, and even though he went
alone, would go below the bar with a consciousness that he
never meant any mischief to the country; and he threw
back the imputation on the Noble and Learned Lord with
all the scorn natural to a man who felt himself injured by
the base suspicions of a such a charge. If their Lord-
ships thought it necessary to keep Catholics out of
Corporations they would vote, for his (Lord Eldon's)
amendment—that amendment of his he founded on
his own notion of the laws of this country ; and,
with all proper respect fire the high authority of his
Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack (of whose
friendship, he hoped, nothing that could occur in that
House would prevent his being deprived) he would stake
his legal reputation on the correctness of the assertion,
that no Catholic would be excluded from Corporations if
their Lordships passed the present Bill. He was sure his
Noble and Learned Friend would not have pronounced his
(Lord Eldon's) conduct mischievous, if he had not thought
his conduct deserved that imputation. If, however, oPP"7
sition to the proposed Bill were mischievous, he (Lord E.)
had the satisfaction to know, that his Noble and Learned
Friend must have agreed with him in the necessity of that
mischievous opposition to it, when it was the •intention of
his Noble and Learned Friend, as a member of the present
Government, to uphold the Test Acts,—(Lasghtef.)

hoped, therefore, that his Noble Friend would not impute
to him other motives for holding- his present opinion than
those of honourable ones, which must have induced his
Noble and Learned Friend to entertain the very same
opinions only a fortnight ago.—(Laughter, and cheer-
ing.) But he wished net to be understood as re•
proaching any persons for having changed their opi-
nions since, as he would be a most unkind person
indeed if he could utter any reproaches on the
subject, when he remembered the persons to whom
they might lie applied. He would declare again, before
God, that he looked on this as a most important revolu-
tionary change. (A laugh from the Opposition side.)
Noble Lords behind him might laugh ; but, if it gave
them pleasure to hear him say that this was a most mis-
chievous revolutionary measure (another laugh), he would
contribute to their merriment by saying it again. It was
mischievous, because it tended to destroy the unity of the
Church and State, which formed the Constitution of the
country. The proposed Bill would alter that Constitution ;
it was,in fact,one of those great leading revolutionary schemes
which, under the name of liberality, and the march of in-
tellect, were undermining the best institutions of the coun-
try. If tha Clergy, who were more immediately inte-
rested in the question, would assent to this measure, after
what they had read in the petitions on the table,
in their own hands be the consequences. But he
was sorry to see the trifling support given to the Church
by the Clergy on this important occasion. It had been said
that the Universities were not opposed to this measure; on
the contrary, his table groaned every morning with a load
of complaints against it, contained in letters coming from
all directions. Finally, be would say to their Lordships
what he had said to one, who was now unfortunately for
die country, dead and gone—he meant the late Duke of
York—namely, " God forbid he (Lord Eldon), who had
served the Crown so long, should be the man to say, that
the King was not bound by his oath, and compelled by
the Legislature, to protect the rights and privileges of the
Church."

The LORD CHANCELLOR did not say his Noble
and Learned Friend's intention was mischievous ; what
he said was, that his conduct was calculated to be mis-
chievous.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE could not be satisfied
without a declaration in form of Protestantism, and called
upon the Right Reverend Bench to insist upon this neces-
sary amendment.
The Bishop of LINCOLN read a clause of the Bill, ac-
knowledging that the discipline, doctrine, and worship of
the Church of England, were inviolable parts of the law
of the country, in order to show that the accusation of
supineness against his Right Reverend Brethren and him-
self was unfounded. It was remarkable that the only
person in that House who had moved that this clause be
expunged, teas the Noble and Learned Earl himself.
The Earl of ELDON explained.
The Bishop of GLOUCESTER said, that on questions
of the nature of that then under the consideration of the
House, and where, as happened to be the case ou the pre-
sent occasion, there existed a strong moral feeling, there
might be, perhaps, as much wisdom in yielding to that
impulse as in being governed by the stricter rules of rea-
soning. He voted fur a repeal of the Test Act, because
he thought it gave no security to the Church, nor did he
conceive it likely to afford any. With reference to the in-
troduction of the words, " and lam a Protestant," there
were doubtless many well-meaning, but not well-informed
persons, in the community, who might think that the
omission of these words might open a door by which Ca-
tholics would gain access to political power. Certainly
he did not enter into those views : he considered tkat the
Oath of Supremacy would always afford a sufficient means
of excluding the Catholics.
The House then divided, when there appeared :
For the Amendment, 55

Against it, ll7
Majority, —62
On our re-admission the Earl of WINCHELSEA. wa,
speaking of another amendment, which it would appear lie
had been proposing to the House. He declared that be
could not assent to the doctrine, that it was of no impor-
tance what were the religious sentiments of those posses,-
ing political power and filling offices of importance. The
Yoble Lord concluded by calling on the House to support
his amendment.

Lord HOLLAND rose to order, and, as we understoc,,l,
suggested that no amendment had been regularly moved.
The Earl of WINCHELSEA having repaired the omis-
sion, the question was put, namely, that after the word
that the followiag be inserted—" I believe in the Canoni-
cal books of the Ohl and New Testament, as set forth by
authority, to be the revealed Word of God."

The Bishop of CHESTER observed, that no doubt, in
a Christian country it was necessary that offices of trust
and power should be filled by none but Christians; the
formula, however, suggested previously, was quite suf-
ficient—the person making the declaration affirming that
he wade it on the true faith of a Christian, was all that
any legislature or government bad a right to expect from
him.
The Bishop of LLANDAFF only objected to such a
test as that of the Noble Lord, because it was unnecessary.

The Earl of WINCHELSEA would persist in pressing
his amendment, even if it were his lot to divide alone.
The Earl of ELDON ,aid, if the word " Protestant"
had been inserted i❑ the Bill, the Noble Lord's amendment
would certainly have been unnecessary. The House having
decided more than once. that the Oaths of Supremacy and
Allegiance were not sufficient guarantee to admit the Ca-
tholics to power, it had also decided that the mere decla-
ration, " I am a Christian," was not sufficient.
The Bishop of LLANDAFF explained.
The Earl of ELDON—If the House was of opinion
that the Oath of Supremacy was sufficient for the Catho-
lic, then the mode now adopted might be tit and proper.
The Bishop of BATH and WELLS thought the Noble
Lord's amendment unnecessary, and on that ground he
would oppose it.
The House divided on the amendment, when the
numbers were—

Contents
Non-Contents
Majority

On our readmission to the Bar we found

The Earl of ELDON observing, that he had a clause to
propose with which he would not trouble their Lordships
until the third reading of the Bill. The object of it would
be, that a person, when admitted to office, should not
practice that office until he had subscribed the declaration.
tie did this with a view to prevent from acting persons not
duly elected.
The Duke of WELLINGTON asked if the Noble Earl
meant to allude only to Corporations?
The Earl of ELDON—To Corporations merely. He
would, with the permission of the House, now read the
clause, that after the words, " and he it enacted, that any
person elected to any such aforesaid office, who shall omit
or neglect to subscribe to such declaration," &c. the words
" that shall not be lawful for any such person to perform
any act of such office until he has subscribed," &c.
The LORD CHANCELLOR had been employed in
considering the best method of distinguishing those who
were to be called upon to make the declaration. Various
plans had been suggested by Noble Lords. One was to
enumerate all the officers liable to make such declaration;
' another was, that all persons now called on to take the sa-
cramental test should hereafter subscribe the declaration.—
He had considered the latter as the most convenient, but it
was obvious that as it stood it would involve a number of
small offices, and render the form little less than ridiculous.
The difficulty he had foreseen had however been obviated
by a reference to an Act of the sth of George IV., in
which the exceptions proper to be made were laid down,
viz. all officers of Customs and Excise, all subordinate
officers in the office of the Postmaster-General—he
thought these included all whom it was necessary to
exempt. It had been also suggested to exempt officers of
the Army and Navy, and he had exempted such officers
op to a specified rank. He thought the clause of the Bill
had better be read—and if it occurred to Noble Lords to
introduce any other exceptions, it could be done. The
clause having been read, the Noble and Learned Lord
stated his intention of proposing the exemption of all
officers of the Navy under the rank of Rear-Admiral, and
all officers of the Army under the rank of Major-Gene-
ral, or C,donel of Militia—and all officers of Excise and
Customs, and officers subordinate to the Postmaster-Ge-
neral in his office. 'The Learned Lord then observed, that
with respect to the time and place of making the declara-
tion, he had fixed six months. If the Noble and Learned
Lord thought a longer time necessary, in consequence of
the occasional absence of persons from the country when
appointed to office, it would be easy to add a clause to that
effect. The Noble and Learned Lord then stated his in-
tention to propose, that in, and near London the place fur
subscribing to the declaration should he the Court of Chan-
cery, or the Court of King's Bench, and that at the dis•
tance of thirty miles from London, it should be the Quar-
ter Sessions.

The Earl of ELDON' observed, that the time was an
important matter, and ought to be considered.
The Duke of WELLINGTON made an observation
which was not heard below the bar, we believe to exempt
from subscribing the declaration, only officers under the
' rank of Colonel.

Viscount GODERICH observed that there were some
other small branches of the Revenue, the officers of which
ought to he exempted—the Hackney Coach Commis-
sioners, for example, Perhaps the better form of cxewp

tion would be—to exempt all officers engaged in collecting
the Revenue.
The Earl of CARNARVON suggested some modifica-
tion of the clause relative to the place for subscribing the
declaration. Persons who resided at considerable distances
from places where the Quarter Sessions were held, would
he greatly inconvenienced if forced to attend there, and ;
would hare to travel two or three hundred rAiless
The Earl of FALMOUTH had an amendment to pro-
pose.
The Noble Earl then read the clause, which was to
the effect that no Member of any Corporate Body should
have any vote or voice hi the nomination to any Church
appointment or benefice, until he had made a declaration of
assent to all contained in the Book of Common Prayer, and
the ceremony for the administration of the Sacrament. He
would, however, forbear to move it now.—(Calls of move,
move. )---He had considered a good deal of the subject of
Church patronage belonging to Corporate Bodies, and had
found that many Corporate Bodies had such power. Par-
liament could never wish that the Dissenters should have
the power of entering the Church, and enjoying Church
benefices. He wished for security against this danger.
Lord HOI.LAND said, that if the Noble Earl intended
to press this amendment, it must be discussed, and he would
therefore recommend its being postponed. He himself had
an amendment to propose, and he would do so at a future
stage of the Bill.
The amendment was then read and put.
Lord ELLENIIOROUGH objected to the amendment.
The Bishop of LLANDAFF considered the Noble Earl's
motion would merely conjure up images of terror, without
any reason for so doing.
The Earl of FALMOUTH would net press the House
to a division.
The amendment was withdrawn.
The Bishop of LLANDAFF was desirous to obtain the
insei tion of a clause to this effect, viz.:--
" That persons who are members of the Church of Eng-
land shall not be required to take this declaration."
Lord HOLLAND said, it might be desirable that he
should state his intention to move, after the report was dis-
posed of, that the third reading of the Bill be fixed for
Monday, and that their Lordships be summoned to attend
on tbatsday. He also took that opportunity to sly, he in-
tended to enter a protest against one of the clauses which
had been introduced into the declaration.—[As well as we
could collect the Noble Lord's objection was, to the use of
the word " maintain," in that part of the Bill. ]_He had
nothing further to add, than to move that the Bill as
amended be printed.
The Report having been brought up, and the amend-
ments agreed to, the motion was put, and the Bill, with
the amendments, ordered to be printed.
On the motion of Lord Hotidoin, the third reading of
the Bill was fixed for Monday, when their Lordships were
ordered to he summoned.—Adjourned till Monday.