The Sun.
London, England, 1810-12-21 00:00:00

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the difficulties winch would attend a just:li:/iitatior
of tlyit.power, but from the merits of the individual

on GL,tio.,n it is conferred; In proportion as those
rocrit, are.. dist?..:guis.ied,• ought. we to be cat -
lions in our
,proceedings, lest.. we -legislate. bene-
ficially, perhap, for Abe preserit..:nge,., but, for
what we know, most iujurioUsly for luture
ages.. Let the Committee cousider; Sir, how
far it might be
„sate to suffer such a princijile
to be. established as, 'that, asserted by the
tletnen .opposite, If in. a future period of the
Zritish history, the lilonarch .should he atilidtd with
a calamity similar to that which his Majesty is now
Unhappily jndoring, and If the apparent'. successor to
,:the 'throrie.at the period I ain. imagining should ne.
of a character the reverse of that of his Royal High-
,tiess the Prince of Wales, how invtdions, how dan- '
gerous, woulo the duty of Parliament becorne-.With.
such a precedent; they could not deny that it had'
been demied wise, in such a case, to invest with full
and jmnfedicite power; they must therefore be'
driven broadly to state, that that which was wise in
the reign of George EL was not wise in the period'
at which they' lived. I challenge any person, there-
fore, to chew that charaeter will -justil a departure
from the.priuciple of wise .legislation, whatever
Inv be the opinion 'of other person's upon other-
parts of the subject.---Whether they consider the
restraints as too many or too few—whether they.
tousider the limitations as too much or too little de-
' iermined, I call upon them to resist the adoption of
a measure by which the po,sibiiity of a negative
would almost be excluded. An appeal has been
/bade to the precedent of the Revolution; but the
circumstances are wholly different. At. the period.
of the. Revolution, the House will recolle& that ano—
ther Monarch was placed on the Throne The
Throne was then vacant ; it is not so now. Now
a newooice is to be created; then only an old 'one.
WaS to be filled 'up.' The cases are far froth being
Parallel, and the reasoning that is derived from the
'oe is inappl'cable to •the other. An Hon. Gedtle-
tnan the other evening adverted to the Address from
the Parliament of Ireland to his Royal Highness the
Prince of Wales in 1788,!and contended, that after:
the Union the precedents of ode Parliament were as
• Rood as those of another: With respe to the dif-
ferent situations of Ireland and of. Great Britain, at
thatperiod„ I will not enter into any ,discussion, butl
Izt.g- leave to wake a remark on the • compatative
!aliaity of the, precedent brought farwaid by the
4t ion. Gentlimari, and that adduced 'by myself. I
she.wti how. the Pat;:ament of Great Britain
acted. upon the result of an examination of the hist-.
()I*,y and constitution of 'the country, and how the
Plete,ent which they then established has been con-
lirtned 'by 11:e proceedings of Subscque4 Pillia-
'4l,nis. -Did any such .colitiimation take ulace iii

to be in .possess on :dF the. Great 'Seal,. to put the
Great, Seal to some coin nisslon, either aothorising
'the Reg'ent hiMsell, in the name of his Majesty; to
open the Parliament, or authorising Commissioners
appointed by the Regent for - that purpose ? If
it be an act of. legislature 'in us to authorise
the individual holding .the Great \Seal, to put
that Seal to. a Bill, would it not equapy be an act
of Legislature were -we by. an Address -. to au.
.thorise another individtial to command the Great
Seal to be so put. I defy the, inmost ingenuity of
the Hon. Gentleman opposite to shew how any one
legislative act could be accomplished by the Regent
without the use of. the ,Great Seal, which nothing
•but the authority of the two Housesof Parliament,
during the suspension of the Kingly power, 'could
warreet, him in using. It would seem, however, by
the arguments of tlee-Hon. _Gentlemen, that when
the two Houses. Qf Parliament direel. the individual
possessing the Great Seal to 'put the Great Seal to'
an instrument, it is an aCt.of legislition.; but that •
when they authorise some other person to dire& the
same thing, it is not apt aa of legislation ! It is true
that the one case is clearly and distinelly intelligible,
and that the other is a little covered over and -ob •
•scure, but the things. are precisely the same not-
withstanding, The authority of the Regent 'to orderthe Great Seal to- beaffixed to a public instrument,
would be transferred through the two Houses of Par-
Lament. It would.. not be the authority of the Re-
gent, lut. the .authority of the'two Houses of Parlia-
ment. One way or the other it must be -an,a6t of
legislation. I go on, Sir, to copsid.er the manner
in. Which the two different measures proposed would
accomplished..be' ln a Case of this description is it
Inothiug to preclude any proposition from .being car-
. ried into effect-by a single vote ? Ott a question
which is no less than to put the Royal authority into
other .hands, ought we not to guard our proceedings
with as -Much deliberation as possible? What the
Gentlemen opposk propose, is . to trah.ter the
whole regal. Authority by a single vote? Am I to
_understand -that the ii-oposers of the address are
willing to tranfer the whole power of the Crown,'
Without limit, qualification, or reserve, or that in
this mode of legislating by address, it is intended to
specify any limit or qualification in the body4of the
Address ? It, appLired' to pie, Sir, thati received
the universal assent' of the Committee, when t said
that it 15eas necessary to provide means by which his
Majesty Might resume the ROM Authority on his
recovery. Are we to.make a Regent without such a
provision ? Are we to leave him to advisers who
may mislead him, for Regents may be misled as
well as Kings,?; Are we then to leave all these points
solely to the wisdom and consideration of the Re-
gent's advisers'? Would this be a fair execution of otir
double trust,? More ;particularly, would it be a fair:.
execution of- that putt of our trust by which we are
bound to svcure io his Majesty# on his restoration to
health, the restoratioo of his :undiminished autho-
rity ? I am persuaded, Sir, that no one sup—
pose, either in the observaiions which .1- had rria,!e,
.or at the'iobservations which I &eel make, tleo
mean any thing incompatible ,with the Utmost pus-.
sible respect for the, character of .his Royal High-
mess the Prince of' Wales, • But let me remin,i t time
who are now willing to intrust immediatelpd3ier in
the hands of his RoyalHighniss, 'the strict con-
fidence that,that rower would not be abused, what
have been their seutiments on similar.suhjects. It
it were a question which relnted to his Royal High-
nt:SS:S character, I would say-,-letOllnSe
.appt.4.icite that. character -as highly as it deserves lo-
be aepieciated ; let them appreciate it as -highly as
their imaginations will permit.. them ; the higner
they estabtis;,, the higher they raise his Royal High-
ness'.,, char.-sae', tlieenore cautious ought. we' to' be
not westaolbh a precedeet of:powcr devolving bite
the hands of
sari oifwer, not from a cem-Mdetatton of •

the Irish Parli3niee,t ? The Loot.Lien..enaot of that
day was the IVlareeis of BOCkitigham. When ad-
dressed. by the two Irish Houiei of Parliafroent,
the view-Of transmitting their Address to his Rte al
Highness the'Prinoe. of Wales, his I.Ord.hip lie'Si-
tatedein - conveying the Address to his Royal High-
ness. But after' i he recovery .of his Mejesty, did the
Irish Parliament adopt any orocee4g.against the
Noble Lord , Was
,even a Vote of
.Censure passed
againSt hint ? And can the Hon. Gentleman coo-
ceive-'that this k;veakly established precedent of the
Irish karhamerit, is to be put in compel itioh with the
precedent ofthe British Parliament, With ,alt its va-
rious sanctions ? I have- endeavoured, Sir, to go
through the 'leading points of thelbestiiVn before
us, and to spew the grounds of the preference, which
I feel for •that side of it which I espoeSe. I trust I
have redeemed the pledge which I, gave on a former
night; •that I would prove there; was:bottling pethe
'Measure that I intended to 'propose in the sliE,hteat
'degree derogwory. to the 'Cuhstitinion, or in
Slightest' degree oflcusive tOshis Royal Highness the
Prit.ce orWales, I'deelare, that if in my own
nietn-complete and tiblaniied pooter ought to be
.
elven to the Prince of Wales, should still contend
that it ought to be given by Bill,-'and not by, Ad-
dress. I cannot conceive the possibility of a sup-
position being entertained that a proceeding. by
_Bill
would contain a refleCtioo on his Royal. Highness,
from which a'proceeding by'Address would be free.
His Royal Highness claims no right; if hp did, both
modes N.O-puld necessarily be offeesive to him. On
all these considerations, I trust that 'the Committee
will consider the 'course which I have taken the
li-
betty to recornmendtdthem 'as one, which combin-
ing in itself all the advantages that are not presented
by 'any other line of conduct, entitled to, tueir sup.
port and adoption,
The, &Ist' Resolution was then read and agreed to.
Tie Second Resolution was next read.
F.BUiiDETT rose on this Itesolut inn being. put.
The flotee•c lie said, ‘xas not composed of the fair
-rep, eseoLinves of the people, otherwise. the subject
might have been a.fair one for discussion,. it it ap-
peared improper to follow the old Patliatnentary
e.amplese He rose not merely to oppose the ;lee-
ciples of the Right Honourable Gentleman,-taut to
contradict the facts he had stated. He would con-
tradict him because he had' a”erted.that asetilbly
to be the fair Representatives of the. People.—
He would not adMit that to be.the fad, etter the.
"many steps they. 'had taken against the interests of
those whose welfare ought to be their care.--7
He could not aekeowledge them assuch, and
thought it would iii become them to
.pass. an ,Act
like that now in contemplation, and throw that
in- the teeth of theSe ,who had already so much
to ether:Len of. S:,clt ;an Art out not to be
cle by an eeoeinbly, the ivlernbers of. which
it had. been otfeeeert6 prove' .‘vere returned as the
majority of those 'they were stated to be. [.Here
the Baronet went over the statements so orogen-rade
at Public nieCtings, With respect to the interest
*by 'Whesh Members are refereed; his words wefe,
`boo:beetle lest, in the tueeilt.ot disapprottatunt whieh
.prevailed in the
,Heosej Front these censiderations,
'he felt it to be hiS doey to enter his pretest against
their -proceedings. The ptese.nt siorettott ,of the
-country, he ceetefided, was cotahigous to that in
which e wis placed et the-period of the Revolution
in tU88.,, The 'throne e as then vaceet th tie roeehe
\itrevitetty of the Monarch, wising from 'tellgioes
,brOjo•ty and deTetie viirreleies. It the throne, were
'nottail.be proved to be full by some
Of rtgal-authotify. ;was indifferent tp the,pco-
ple whbtle.::r the throne e as vacant through b,gotey
car
Ithrongh sickness, In either case.„, the 'defict-
ency in the,tegiSlature Sought to be supplied. The
CrQWn was the source from whjeh all power
p7oceed,-(1 ;. Without it the, got erninetit of the
e:iuntry could ;Jot be legally canted oil. tit
,tak-
ing-upon-tbetus the right of authorising a per:- ,
sort to exercise the funetions of royalty, wider .cer-
tain restrictions, he thought they in effect worked
a revolution as greateas that of if 685,. but,less ad-
vantageouS to' the people. The aothority, of Go-
vernment .Was, in the present instance, usurped by
a.House of Common's; of which some of ,its Mem,-
bets. had' been turned out for refusing to vole with
the Hon. GenteoPposite, who tolerated the
sale of seats in Parliament because the tact was no-
toriotiS, e` Who had allowed a public accountant (Lad.
Melville; 'he' meant) to tell them he 3.yould, give no
accouu of the*public :money' end who had passed
over.* With6llts censure, the, caLonitous expeditiOn to
•Walclieren,"front which IV; expected they would 4e-
rive their ditinguishing title. Asir) former times
certain Parliaments, from peculiar circumstances,
'had been denominated the Long Parliament, the
Rump Parliament, &e. So he expected the present
Parliament Would ;it tutere be' denominated the
Weleheren Parliament. Sir G.. had many
'years
ago stated ;he members of that House to 'be
no more the repreSentatit es of the' people 'of Lig-
land than of the people of France. Ile approved of
'the sentiment, and thought Ministers, in following
the precedent of 1788., had no regard Inc the good
of the people—no re.,ard tor any things btu their
own places and emoruments. The Hoedureble •
Baronet then proceeded to notice the observations
made on thotie who were favourable to a reform. They
had been denounced as lacobios ,and theorists, but
suChejacotains, and theorists were Lord Ceke and Mre
Justice Blackstone. He then prOceeded at ?some
length to expound the lex et consuetudo parliumenti;
and observed that a Learned Judge had de'scribed the
Constitution of England as resembling a machine
put in motion by. the operation of three weights, the
.etfeel of which was not to move the body to which
they' belonged in the direction of any one of theoe,
but to keep the whole in equilbrium, and tocausethe
main body to move in adirectiou of its own, the di-
reaion of the liberty of the people. If the system aa-.
ed upoh,by the preseut Ministers was a system bene-
ficial to the country, the people ought never to
be burdened with the expense of royalty. It they
hadacted:right there could-be no occasion of a King.
Whet were they to, understand was meant by a
Kitig ? was it a name ? was it a form ? was it a
mode ? was it a 'triek ? what was the necesshyot it
.whatwas its use ; what were the services-to be ex-
.pected from it if itcould ihtss iat pleasure be done
without? Adverting to the,restrictions proposed,
he observed the Constitntion_had wit said whAt'un--
der such eircumstancesshoud take place. Though
he admitted that the Heir Apparent to the Crown
hadn't) more "rightthan any
-other subject, as had ye,

. _ .
.. •
li:;d as little rio-ht aud that the 'Heir -Apparent
, 6
had-a' more reasonable claim. Tincleriuch'Cireurn-
stinc:.S could any. thing .he more easy than to
r.-mealy the defect in the same way 4s the deficiency
wotald, be supplied by the law of the land in the
event of the death of, the Monarch. Was it not
.mare reasonable, more conformable to analogy, to
plate it in.such hands?—to place it where it would
gv)., when such on event might take place as the law
.ii id foreseen and accordingly provided for ? Such,
in his °pullet), was the line of conch-id- proper to
. he pursued, as it must be most- beneficial to the
country.. With respect to the proposed restric-
Aions,' be
,would say, that..if- the King had too
much power, it was .necessary that- he should
.be 'controuled as welLas a Regent, and 'the Regent
„when, appointed; ought to hold the entire executive
poNer. He did not wish to bail in questioin the cha-
raeter of, the .King,- nor should lits'of any labour-
tug'-under such afliiMion but when •he 'heard lib-
_thing buta string of panegyrics on him, and on the
. worst ,Government ilti.Country had ever known, he
could not controul his feelings so as not to say
was a little more than could be calmly, listened to,
while labouring under such calamities, and groaning
beneath exactions so unprecedentedly great, las- those
Country: had been fated ta.endure. ;He- (tished
,to little on ibe subject-.of-the' etarninla-
tion .of .the Physicians, which the Right lion-
our.qe Gentleman had -passed very Slightly' over.
la he could coiled flour the 'Reporttlie only
deduction he could mike-after attentively p-rusing
it, was, that his Majesty bad never been perfedly
well since 1788. The people had been deceived,
and-Alinisters had dated to carry on'the gover:nnent
of the cOunt ry when there, was no moreof, an ex-
ectui,e power to dire& them than at preSerit.. The
Kipp being the vital organ of this naliotw toe-use the
Great Seat w.ithout.his consent, in,a way vurvoriing
it to hate' been given with it, would be like a-fraud,
would be a shante. . The Right 'Honourable Gen-
tler-natl. was fOr making &King, but seclya' one as'lie
(euld carry in his, pocket. If the :public business
count be carried on withotit a King, they ought to
,be.telieved irony the attendant expetice. Putting the
dergegemeutolthe King.out of the ont:stion, what
did it
,si.,,oity to the puolic 'What was the cause, if
'the effect was the stispeosien of the exereise,of the
lundions ?.. Was it light that things shotildp,
(.:ti as they LW goneeon, his Nlajejtv sometimes a
little better,-soinettines a little worse, just as Mini-'
pleased ? There was a circumstance be 'wished
to notice. One of the Physicians had thought :his
Majesty, competent, to attend to public business on
one day, the 27th of October, he.belleved,Wrbe:, ano-
ther had been of-a Contrary opinion. Was it to be endur-
ed that theoatien should be thus. treated ? He was of,
opinion, that a provision should now be made, a per-
JR-Lane:it provision, to prevent the recurrence oh such •
In case of certain events taking place,
which no titan could be certain would not take place,
the appointment of a Regent with su`ch *restricted '
,pc.iwerS as the Riglit . Unit. Gerille.rnan posed
wouigi pl.:ce' the county to imminent. danger, and
would, 'in e&a,'amouut to I trio less than treason:
to his mind. _Be den.ccl their " right" to supply
the deft( ieney ; whatever they did he would
have thew a 1 'consistently with the attAntnent of
some .political object. He knew Lot why, they
avoided a decision on the snbjeet before. He could
only account fOr it limn a desire on the part of Mi-
nister, to create delay.' He protested against their
proceedings—iiie whole, was a sharer, a pretence,
audit would be:giving a mortal stab to the interests
of the people.if the nation was to be subjected to the
rule ot a House ol•Commoni; and of a House of
C''tnmons colleated as they. were. With thil
victiou he should'vote against the resolution. '
The second (ides',ion.waS then nut and caßieti, and
•tire.third was redd.

• MV,- PoNSONBY 'concurred with the Right Hon.
•Gentletnan opposite, in thinking that there was,not,
a heart in the House, or in the nation,: that did -not
lanwet- toe calamity which tiad befallen ins Majesty.
He entirely concui red with h:m in thinking it must
br (he wish and the prayer.. of every otie that. he
Might soon recover, to exercise the royal
The Right. Hon. Gentleman had said, ttleir pro-
ceeditigki. had been marked .s ith limner gravity and
,decorum, .and .hzld expresst-d his .satistaction at the
differenechviween their conduct and that of the re-
presentatives of the people, in 1788._ 1-1 e telt no gro-
titude to the Right Haft. Gentleman for. the compli-
ment, in which lie Conceived. himself to he included
,with his friends, and he knew not why he (the Chan--
cellor of the Exchequer) should go out of, ins way to
mrdie such a comparison, and to throw. obloquy on
the national ass:mibly of. that day, most 'ot whom
were now no more. He..could see no reason.for his
acting thus, to revive that spirit of acrimony,at the
absetice.of he..prillessed to 'rejoice. IL was.
by s,o, m,tmis,'necessary for firm, in 18 iO, to, make
SuCh a coo psrison,tuihedisadvantage of thost.. whn.
had discussed.th hank:. question in 1789. Tile flight
Hon Gentleman had said understood, trout what
tract been thrown but frnm time Opposition side, that
' the third resolution .would be opfiosed, *as not being
agreeable to the principles of the Cbnstitution,
he called upon them, itt 1810, to'tollow the example.
of the House of Conitnons in 1788. • In opito.iing
such a proceediog he was guilty of no inconsistency
of conduct. He bad been Of opinion that it was-
unconstitutional in 1.788, and he still continued to
think so; for, reasons which he .should proceed to
stine to time House. The Right Hon. Gentleman
had said there was no comparison between the pre-
sent simuation of the country and that•in which it was
'placed at the time of the Revolution In 1,688. He
(`Mr. P.) thought with the last s,:eaker,, that they
were parallel cases. In the present instance t he' va-
cancy arose nut from the abdication of the Monarch,
but iron) the incapacity of him who holds that situa-
tion, to discharge the functions of royally. Though
his person is there, his mind is absent he is wholly,
unable to fulfil the'dutieS of his high office; and it
*consequently became their duty to remedy the defect
thence arising. It was propocd‘ to lodge 'the executive
,power in the hands of another, during his -Majesty's
mental iticopaciiy ; and mode by Which this was
proposed t0.b..: dune was b/ thi t ; , by an -Ad, which
'mink( the consent of each or the olluNties of the
G,vernment. He hoped- the, Right Hon, Gentle-
man would find be had not eloquence .eitung, to
persuade the I lotlie, to Wine into, such a proposition.
Right_ lion..Gentlenian, -in `reieriing to the pre-
cedent of 1789,-had told them, that attar the reeo-
- his Ma

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