The Sun.
London, England, 1819-12-01 00:00:00

tirs.v.. It he thought the ►listressea that now
exisit d would not excite the 'attention of Par-

!lament,—he Ohl not mean to say the pre-
sent or occasional ettention,—he, for one,
svoeld make some specific proposition on the
ssbject. Alluding to the observation of taking
oft the dot y on winee his Lordship ob-
served that a subject of great consideration would
soil arise, namely, whether the excess of con-
sumption that might be expected to take place
oe that article, would not have the effect of
causing a decrease on that of others. He -felt
Sul), atvare of the necessity of making the coun•
try aware of the wish of Pistil-intent to do all in
its power to alleviate the distress'of the country.
Adverting to the connexion of the proceedings
that had taken place at winos periods, he celled
the attention of their Lordships to the fact, that
the promoters of the proceedings drat had taken
place, nowederiogly attcl openly evowed what their
otject was. The exanaple of the French Revo-
lution was closely followtd, and the effect was
that a similar feeling had note risen to a height,
that it would be vain for him to attempt to de-
scribe, To such a pitch bed this feeling been
carried, that if Parliament and the Government
did not now do something to stop the present
proceedings, it would attain such en-ascendancy
as would overwhelm thene—(Hearebear, hear f..)
Such in his conscience he believed to be the pre-
stot situation of the coeutry—(Hear, hear !)
and 'oohing but the course he bad stated.wouid,
prevent it —(Hear, hear !)—The present circem-
stences of this country were precisely similar to
those which preceded the Ilevolotioe, which
,was
brought about by the publication.. of lioeis and
'edition. What %vete Societies fit tned
for % What were the numerous meetings that
loel been held called for, but to nuke the people
eeeire of the extent of their physical strength—
to overturn the existiog Dynasty, and sob-
vet: the Constitution limn had the
country to depend % He would sty, wiihnut he-
bi;eiliOn, it lie were asked on whonethey were to
rest their hopes in the preeseit frightful situation
et the cannily. higner•part of the middle
• citric, to whom alone they could look sectirely.—
(lis er, hear !)—With reteretice to the meeting
at Manchester being an illegal one, his opittioo
1-, that that was 'not the only instance ; other
niettines had been held which he hail no hesita-
tion in saying were equally illegal. There were
other cause's ihau open violence whit!) would give
it nice, ieg the character of illegality. If a meet-
ing wss held in terrcrum 7,opuli, it was an illegal
assemble. lit callites their fooeiships' attention
te the Magistrates of Manchseter, he beeged to
remind them of the situation which those (ien-
Ciente') %vete placed on .the day `of the Meeting,
and he would then ask it the state of aliens did
not warrant the-feats that had hero excited ? If
one individual had cause of •fear from anotheree
Magistrate wa! bound to afford •filin that pro-
tectiou Hie law lied itivesied him with.—(Hear,
hear !)—The Magistrates of Manchester might
have suffeitel their ferbeeletnee so have gone too
far, but it would he sttattge to say, that because
that was the case, they were to be precluded from
stopping the farther progr. of the evil. In. his
(million the anneal ences of 'danger •fully war-
ranted thou in pursuing the course they nad fol-
lowed, and when one Magistrate possesst-d the
power he bad alluded to, it world he stranee
in-
deed, when the law provided for the security of
an y indivichial, that his Majesty's Commission of
the Peace were not to interfere in such a case as
that of the Menches'er Meeting ; and looking et
their conduct he must say, that they (t Magis-
trates) olsserved the entire approbation of their
Lordships.—(Hear, he !)—Alluding to the effect
of the speeches made at public meetiegs, and the
opinions given at them, he telt convinced that such
conduct was extremely imnoper, and such as he
must deprecate, as having the effect of preindiciug
the minds of persons at a great distance, with re-
spect to the proceedings that were going on at
distant parts of the country. %Vitt' respect to the
conduct of Ministers, in having signified to the
Magistrates the view they took of their conduct,
he contended,' that if they lied not acted as they
had done, they tvould have been guilty of a great
dereliction of their duty. If it twas proper for the
Ministers to express their opinion on the miscon-
duct of persons, surely there was no reason for
their not expressing their satisfaction ;
consequently, in eoing so tinder the present
circumstances—circumstances that wart-mosd hint
in saying, that any thing short of %%list
the Magistrates had done would have been lin-
' proper—they had done no more than their duty.
The Magistrates had been called on to perform it
duty, under circumstances that had never before
existed in this country, and they had done no
more. hi fact, those who had brought forward
the complaint against the Magistrates might to
have been the parties complained of. The pre-
sent situation of the country he attiibuted to the
course perseed by the Magistrates.—(Hear, hear,
bear !)—He rematked that the first principle to
be cohsideted was the.maintenance of the public
peace. If any persons were to blame, it was
those who had curried their poison into the very
centre of peace and happiness, -slid that contti-
buted to increase the distress that existed. He
must be a t'eise -man, in his Lordship's opinion,
who could mend the Constitution which had been
so neatly years growing up so gloriously, and
which had excited the pride and the envy of sot'-.
TOnntling nations, by mist pre-conceived theories.
Earl GREY expressed his regret at being under
the necessity of- differing with the Noble Lord
who had just sat doWn, and also with his Noble
ittel who had preceded him. He had, how-
ever, a most important duty. to perform, and he
twist do so at any risk. He rose to support the
motion for an inqiiiry, and lie did so from the
conviction that such a course was indispensably
fireeSSol:Y. He contended that the papers laid
before flo.e House were of themselves sufficient to
warrant such procedure, mid theu went over all
the 'Old grounds of the Manchester transactions,
ithouw t adding any nets argui
Knent whatever.
-The Earl of ILn-sr:POOL said, that from the able
mintier itt which this- qeestion had been dis-
cussed, belied very-little to sey tipiin it : but lie
could not refrain from noticing some paints in
the speeches of the Noble Eatl and the Noble
Marquis, who opened the debate, both of whom
differed widely on many important pelota. The

Noble Marquis had artihnted the tlan,zers of the
country chiefly to the -distt eases that prevailed in .
the manufactotingt:: districts; hilt that could not
constitute a ground for Pariiameintary inquiry, •
unless such iorptiryweite to lead to some measures
of relief. A great error prevailed on the subject
-ott.these distresses-; they were oot connected with
the Govertiont, but aroze nit of causes over
which Government htad no controid ; they arose
out Of the fluctuations of our commerce with fo-
reign colon ri s.-----(1-Ienc, hear I)—Greater distress
existed in the United States of America than in
any other pact of Eorope. Kiierica, ivhere
the people boasttd cif having the utmost degree
of free.lom, they were in the gteatest
distress, which was the natural consequence of
the stoppage of that rapid commerce uvhicti they
had for twenty years. enjoy,d. With respect to
oor own country, similar causes had produced si-
tui!ar ffeCts but it was known that during the
last 20 years, our commerce and our Nvealth had
increased in a moat rapid degree. With respect.
to the legality of the meetings which had been
alluded to, he would say, that if men could law-
fully
Lyet for the purpose of obtaining Universal
BuTrage, they. totild.lawfolly meet to alter the
succession to the Crown, or to effect any
other tirasonshie purpose,. The meeting' at
;Manchester had every symptom of illegality
shout it, by.its military array. its banners, and
'other thine) that .evinced a disposition tn re-
sist the' ant horitieit of the country. :The Noble.
Lord bad .observed, that nn person of any rank or
c.oisequenec took
_a, part in that meeting, as if he
thought there-could be no danger if the
wire all confuted to the louver orders. Did the ,
Noble Lord forget the history of the rebellions ot
Was Tyler, Jack Cade, and Jai:k Straw, in which
the lowest orders had put the Government in
the. greatest state of petit, and committed the
most dreadful ravages on property ? The Noble
Lotti had siattd, that Owe could be nothing
dangerous in the Alanche,ster be•
cause there were several women chil-
dren present. Now he wunld tell the Noble
Lord that-be never sa.vtr a mob in which. (bete
%vete not women and children ; and having
beem in Paris at the demolisiOng at the
Had witnessed rhat event,-he decisred that
there were nu/libels of women who took the most
active part in it. The Noble Earl siren gave a
statement of the Manchester transactions; and
observed, that there would be no ju-t groOod !m-
-inipill-nig into atiattair which was.alOne a fit sub-
ii-ct tor a judicial inquiry, and re'Pe6(mg
jodicial lusher jrB were now in a state of progress;
and that a simultaneous inquiry into the. Cunt-is
below, and in Parli.4trient, would be a violation
ot,cvery principle ot justice.
E.,, I of DARN LEY contended, that Ibis was
a subject. on which the minds of the people re-
quited to be satisfied, and on which an inquiry
waB alisolottly necessary. •
The Marquis of LAN.SDOWN said a few
_words in
explanation, aftet:. w;hitll the, [louse divided—
Contents
Proxies •
•
•.
- Not-Contents .... -
Proxies

47

111,:jority in favour of :..itclsters •
Adjourned at ONE O'CLoCK this thornitig•

HOUSE OP COMMONS.

The lion. I,'tt.t,Ltm Lamn took the ovbs land
his seat as Member for Helefornshire, in the place
of 31r. Brand, mow • Lord D•tcre.-
Lord A. riAmluroN moved fur a Copy of the Reference
made to the JUdgeS, or any of theta,. relative to the Report
of the Comnaissioners upon the law of Scotland, with the
answers thereto, and all papers connected with the subject.
—Ord& red.

Mr. sTUART WORTLEY repeated the explanation-which
he had given the day before, and which it. appears had again
hero mis-stated in stone papers. He had not said that a re-
solution had passed' at some meeting in the West Riding of
Yorkshire, marking out Lord•Fitzwilliam's property fur par-
tition, but at such a Hireling that Nobleman's property had
been so pointed out for partition. There was a great difference
between a simple allusion and a resolution, for the first was
the work of only one individual, whilst t hcot her would in-
volve all those by whom it had been adopted in its guilt. He
was unwilling to occupy the time of the Howse with what re-
garded him prrsottally ; but these wet e awful -times, and it
was fair that no winds should he put into the mouths of men
by whom they had not been spoken.