The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-12 00:00:00

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the Colonial-office himself. Some two years ago he had drawn
iattention of the House to the state of the colonies, aid
he had to express his thankfulness to the House for the atten-
tione with which they had favoured him on that occasion ; and
hsi e had also to express his gratitude to the House and
L,n country for the weight with which rublie opinion and the
force with which public feeling had been brought to bear
Wnn this question, in consequence of that attention--( Hear.)
e
w°llld again apply to that public feeling, he would again
evoke that public opinion, and he did hope that both would be
Made available on the present occasion for the besefit of the
colonies and the country.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. C. Buller)
had_ always in former days understood that when an English-
r,an left the land of his birth he carried with him the birth-
fight of an Englishman ; that he was entitled to the same priyi-
- IT' as he was in his native land. and that he was nowhere
were to be taxed without his consent. But now matters
at e changed ; and if the colonies were thought of
Croall. they were only thought of as the colonies of the
so, wm Did the Hon. Gentlemen of the Colonial-office know
i ',tat a Crown colony was ? When the colonists, in early days,
jit this country to found those splendid empires in the west,
rY felt that so long as an Englishman retained his connexion
withi this country he felt that he was entitled io its privileges.
tie felt that he was entitled to all the benefits of a representa-
tive Government ; and when the State of Pennsylvania and
there
Island, and other of the American States, were founded,
te was every care taken to secure a representative Govern-
ment for them. Indeed to such an extent did this ge, that
• ofnind Island had a domestic Legislature, though the number
t, t
sinhabitants did not exceed five thousand. But now,
al system pursued towards the colonies was one of despotism,
be "Pa
Per otis
fectm w
despotishich, bm, aut fondr ththis we supeasrvisthe system theyion of that House,pursued
would
towards New Zealand—a system which prevented all liability
es
" tne part of the Governor to have his conduct or his mea-
je, canvassed by the colonists. They had in the island a
tbeelslattire, it was true, but it consistedof the Attorney-General,
. Colonial Secretary, and the Colonial Treasurer, and three
ble‘,dependent members; but the three official members,
et'i_ the assistance of the Governor, were always
wt. to outvote the independent members. There
s no disgrace in that matter. The whole thing was
tuPterfeet despotism—a round-about despotism it might be,
es a despotism nevertheless. Of these three despotic go-
dildtmrs, two of them had belonged to the Royal Navy. He
b"
~,
het mean
say to speak disrespectfully of the Royal av,
must that the Royal Navy was the N
very
Glast ..lace to choose a governor from who would be vested with
sPatie powers. They had no light charges to make against
o tn fernor Fitzroy. He would state three instances of his mis-
efTN3elnent while governor, that must convince every person
4.Aia utter incompetence for that onerous position. It was
talu and maintained, that the Government of the Right Hon.
currency,
had disseminated the soundest views with respect to
tsi;renc3', and it was therefore the more extraordinary that the
clifivernor of New Zealand should, upon the subject of finance,
Biliter as widely as he possibly could from the Right Hon.
aronet. Would the House suppose that in any part of the
they imagine any thing mere monstrous? And yet such had
1 7,1 estahli-hed in New Zealand by Governor Fitzroy. In
r''ngland they had, at a considerable sacrifice, returned to a
gold currency, but in the colony of New Zealand they had get
nev inconvertible currency established. In this country they
ea: allowed a paper currency to be is-ued for any amount
slid r a pound. But Captain Fitzroy had issued five shilling
slid shilling assignats. There was something wicked in
n bad political econom. What was the object of this issue
men, and 2s. assignats? They were issued to pay work-
that s , wages. And what were the consequences of
Theseus: ? This—the depreciation of that currency.
assignats were in a course of deprecia-
Q.' ;lithe very time the Governor issued his proclamation.
the lleosing that some accredited party had stated that
lit- Parent country gave no authority to the Governor to
Isde, these assignats, wlsat would then be the consequence ?
. ,01". , it must naturally have followed, that the credit of the
. she(MY would suffer by the condu of the ovrnor, ad that
~ depreciatinn of the currency G e
would be reduced to the
,aejeY lowest scale. What would be the further consequence
t ' n the 2s. assignats would perhaps have been depreciated
, 2d, s
legilats f Why,, that they would have to pay 15,1001. on as.
t or which they would not get 15,0(4) pence. Was not
shatll scandalous ? Was it to be tolerated that any Governor
sire'4l,(l so trifle with the community, and so violate the most
im;P'e 'princples laid down by the Government which had ap-
tf„'"ed him? Captain Fitzroy was not merely incompetent.
Liu-, 4wax nesitivele mischievous and dangerous, as in every
(114"er of Lis kind he entailed the most extensive harm.—
de ear, hear.) Such blunders as these were enough to con-
taint. anY man, no matter how superior his other qualities
11,114) ' be. Let them now turn to his system of taxation.
t at did they find there Why they found that the Governor
?eel every sheep imported los., and cattle 20s. Let them
;1-ceiee a man doing all he could to destroy the resources of
his
country over which he was appointed Governor ; if he tried
ciestiverY best, he could not do more than Captain Fitzroy had
h-,,,:e1-( Hear, hear.) Since the time of the Houynyhms,
irCY nad never heard of such a thing as abolishing the customs
(c'ile part of a province, and allowing it to remain in another.
thp,;annhter and cheers) The Hon. and Learned Member
'PC read a letter complaining of the miss ule in the Island.
it e natives begged' to have the custom-house abolished in the
717 e of Islands, and they ended by pulling down the flag-staff.
;tits Governor sent to Sydney for forces, he alarmed the
hi norities there out of their wits, and 150 men were sent to
H assistance. The natives requested him to send them back.
the did so, and in order to conciliate them further, he abolished
~: custom-house in the Bay of Islands, and left them standing
hy leaving other parts of the colony. What could the man mean
teet the custom-house in one place and abolishing it in
richers, ? Helping the Bay of Islands and ruining the port of
4 i'and. What would they think of the Government if it
stelished the customs at Bristol anti left them in full and active
tieedration over the rest of the country ?—( Hear, hear.)
port thseY suppose that any ship would.unload at. any other
hr,,„•'''nile Bristol was so privileed? Did they think that the
oe's,"l,4trY would come down tog the House and say that they
' h th'"tt to be su ,ported because they had abolished the custom-
:o;e in Bristol p? The Duke of Buckingham, he thought it
Pre' ho, at some public meeting lately held, came clown
asPlant with information, and complained to the audience—
hia Ifiricultural audience—of the Right Hon. Baronet, and of
4 sisPersech on the budget. He complained that the Right
1.41: naronet did not mention the agricultural interest at all ;
ne added, " We are treated as if we were a colony."—
es ;1Y gfeat laughter.) That was the way in which the Duke
/Sersuel'nham spoke of their colonies. " They care for us no
" re than if we were a colony."—(Renewed laughter.)
!`'S, beY care nothing for us—let us legislate for ourselves."
was the literal interpretation of this remark, "They care
for a colony." The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Aglionby)
col
but lightly on the subject of the proclamation. By
imhsa
' the 'tit and 6th of Victoria it was enacted that no waste land in
' tie ecdcaly should sell for a less sum than 11. per acre, and the
, ta nation therefore was, whether land held by the natives was
t f„be considered and sold as waste land. If the House
' neen-rrLied to the 23d section of that Act, they
scribe find that waste lands were intended to de-
Ilan e„ the lands vested in the Crown with the sanction of the
At v 4-1; This was a moat just and a most humane enactment.
pas intended to protect the savage by making all such sales
nati,`"rough the hands of Government. All lands held by the
a el'ea and sold to Europeans became vested in the Crown as
in isrter of right ; and, under the terms of the Act, lands sold
Ne ~!.w Zealand became part of the waste lands of the Crown.
A.et"tan could doubt that such was the proper reading of the
aria", Parliament. He (Mr. C. Buller) complained that by
lstidPe stroke of the Governor's pen he reduced the value of
fat in the colony from 2 i
os. to 10s. They had asked for n-
t ; of Natkfl upon six subjects connected with the administration
Of thew Zealand, and they had only got information upon one
'sere eni• Some mention had been made of the Wahrou mas-
44. ' of the slaughter f nine gentlemen who had i
Le tendered to the natives.(The Honourable and
seeertted Gentleman was so much affected, that for several
' ' es I;;„`tahe could not proceed.) He trusted the House would
' • Rel-el:Bins if he felt upon this subject. He knew one of these
)fore,il!lan well—he meant Captain Wakefield,—one of the most
4 'sing officers in her Majesty's navy ; and to think of such
ass, n Perishing in a distant colony, by the tomahawk of the
sthe'ie, through the ineapacity of a man like Captain Fitzroy,
thossuld afterwards come forward and said that the conduct of
iNieliisersons (referring to those unfortunate gentlemen) was an
nstuule disgrace to their country. He should be more ge-
tale V,O Captain Fitzroy than be was to the unfortunate Cap-
tek.4 aicefield, and he would not go into that matter. It had
nf ored in a dispute about land, in which the Commissioners
Ilecet:lnal Lands would or could not decide the point of sale,
tti,e. e the natives were not present. The parties in the other
'444 had been before him, and he had decided that in those
P•oritidthe property had been sold fairly and for eland, ful
they oration. They thought they had a right to that
theopwhent to survey it, and the natives came down and burned
of tlija`lenxes. The magistrates at Wellington, on information
,tiseivetrnomstances being communicated to them, very un-
ihet' and improperly issued a warrant against the natives.
tor ticourie was irrational. They went. out, and he must say
kites? magistrate, Mr. Johnson, and the other gentlemen who
ellee-Parlivd him, that they were grievously misled in the
nost,a:ters of the people with whom they had to do. The
ass, -* in the neighbourhood of Nelson were few in num-
xlihm!'nd not at all of a warlike temperament. They generally
41'. Jit'sed to the decisions of the law, and the unfortunate
nlidas,;"lason and his friends were not aware of the for-
elsi,t.u'e tribe against whom they were proceeding, or of their
aeareit Rallituera, who was the principal object of their
!foeti' A conflict took place ; the gentlemen stood their
s.vs. ' and were massacred by the natives.
bad !e and horrible as the customs of those people were, they
f`litieted according to their established usages, and God
Znh,..at,he
_should say the were to be punished for them,
t %stai
~to the usages of Enyglish law. All he said was, that
44 Fitzroy ought to have protected the European in-
hie ~, Ott, instead of encouraging the native aggressors. But
iseeveTelarnation was, that he would severely punish those who
geett,ealied from the tomahawk of the savage. The coiase-
keetie was, that the inhabitants of Wellington, who had held
threatngs. for the purpose of defending themselves against their
inch ening assailants, were thrown into the greatest alarm. In
lb 4 ,State of things a wise Government would have said to
'1
noble
had armed themselves to protect the settlement,
Einar -,s"Tik ou for what you have endeavoured to do, but ,
Ns se"e have sent a body of soldiers for your protection, and
flet":”' return to your peaceable pursuits."—(Hear, hear.)
teatiownat did the Governor actually do? He issued a procla-
and itli,stkatalleb meetings of the inhabitants were treasonable,
4110tilen,e9 were held again, those who took part in them
'd be cut down by the soldiers. He called a meeting
had
"le inhabitants of Wellington, and denounced
"ad se entlduet in the words which he (Mr. Buller)
4'„herientioned. Having given every encouragement to the
dare gives, he went to Nelson. Now, there ware in that set-
Ns bat 'IX gentlemen in the commission of the peace—and it
la 10,i' no means unimportant to observe, that in so small and
lest), n„R a settlement there were five or six gentlemen of pro-
i'Nee -4,d station fit to be placed in the commission of the
;,LX stisstik Hear, hear ) Well, Captain Fitzroy called those
tfe sesi.;tenlen before.him, and rebuked them for having issued
eked nt—be it remembered that he (Mr. Buller) did not
14e lisethe warrant. The parties were in a state of war, and
;nlasti.le of a warrant was foolish—it was most imprudent and
-NA -mix—but it was extraordinary, that when officers were
th out
Nth, , to govern in any of the colonies, they sometimes
le.ntletttneY were privileged to overlook the feelings of other
iisie,„ e_n, and to violate the common decencies of life. Captain
teatletti"Zcordingly thought proper to charge one. of those six
:Pets `,l,„' with having written some statement in the news-
,,,ntt n • The magistrate, Captain Dillon, said that he had not
toss et, in the newspaper. Captain Fitzroy told that gentle-
-4 'Rlit h at it was not true !"—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Buller)
eat) e toil that these things were not important.—( Hear,
kc'atlere But he would say that they were of importance. If
teatsh en, Were induced to go out as settlers to your colonies,
Via`''
ti'lnid, take care that those who represent you should
~,,an h „ em as gentlemen.—( Hear, hear. ) Captain Fitzroy
ertrte-4dhlit six months in the colony, and he had in that time
t,,:: the R..to wound the feelings and to endanger the property
I,frlx 36,0`,',1'"1/eari inhabitants. The amount of the expenditure
sil f 'tit a year. He (Mr. huller) thought that was pretty
(Hear or the _
sw, h_ Governor of a colony of I.l,ooo.inhabitant
1ty...._, ~r)—a colony new and struggling with every d. -
11anoestwsrslear, hear.) 36,000/. expenditure for the
tif ti °f a population ef 14,000 was two and a
be as arcs -ex the expenditure of Britain, including
ere, (~_,nal. debt. In justifying an increase of th.e expe.ndi-
teieleq"iiiptin Fitzroy said that the greatest calamity which a
t., Les( r
Ito avoid was to deprive the officers of their sala-
ekvt;einue by taxation.
Accordingly he proceeded to make up his
andt'es.-s is, taxation. He laid a tax upon the importation of
v he‘ -lear, hear)—a 'tax upon sheep-dogs—(Hear, hoar)
atka. t'tihned assignats of 2s. and ss. for the payment of
t When the aborigines revelled against the customs'

duties, to please them he abolished three custom-houses out of
four.—( Hear, hear. ) He ( Mr. Buller) did not want to
make Captain Fitzroy a monster. He did not want the
House to impeach him. He wanted to show what the Go-
verner was worth by his own acts ; and he asked the Govern-
ment to pass no further censure upon him than to say that he
was a very foolish man.—( Hear, hear.) He asked them what
right they had to commit the safety of 14,000 Englishmen in
New Zealand to such a man as this ?—Hear, hear.) He
did not want to he hard upon the infirmities and deficiencies of
human intellect, but he did not think that they ware justified
in putting at the head of a colony a man whom they would not
entrust in the common affairs of life.—( Hear, hear.) When
they had the proofs of his incompetency, what was the duty cf
the Government but to recal him?—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Buller) did not ask that as a punis'ement (though he deserved
it)—he did not ask it as a warning to future governors,
(and the warning was wanted) ;—but he asked it for the sake
of the colony, which could never be prosperous or safe whilst
such a man was at its head.—( Hear, hear.) What it was the
duty of the Government to do was—to send out a keeper for
Captain Fitzroy, and to send out his successor at the same
time.—( Hear, hear.) They ought to have recalled him before
this, and they ought to explain why they had not done so.—
( Hear, hear.) He trusted the House would so express its
opinion on this subject as to prevent the colonies from being
exposed to misrule such as this. —( Cheers,)
Colonel R. TREVOR would not, on this occasion, have
troubled the House, but that he was the only near relation of
the Gallant Officer whom the Hon. and Learned Member for
Liskeard had so unjustifiably assailed in his absence. The
Hoe. and Learned Gentleman had said, in the course of his
speech, that he did not wish to hurt the feelings of any one.
(" Hear" from Mr. Buller.) He (Colonel R. Trevor) was glad
that he, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, assented to his
statement. With the charges which the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman made against the Colonial-office, he (Colonel R.
Trevor) bad nothing to do. He had only to deal with the
charges against the Gallant Officer at the head of the colony.
There could be no objection to a Member of that House mak-
ing charges against any servant of the Crown. But he thought
any Member went too far when he drew unfavourable in-
ferences from general statements, without any specific facts.
He thought it would have been better to wait until the Govern-
ment and Captain Fitzroy had an opportunity of communicat-
ing the facts to the House. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
said that Captain Fitzroy made up his mind upon the informa-
tion he received from the murderers, without hearing the colo-
nists. But this was not the fact, for the opinions stated by that
officer were the same as were expressed by the Colonial Secre-
tary before Captain Fitzroy went out to New Zealand. The
Hon. and Learned Member for Liskeard himself admitted that
the warrant was illegal, imprudent, and injudicious.
Mr. C. BULLER—I did not say illegal, I said imprudent
and injudicious.—( Hear, hear.)
Colonel TREVOR—The Attorney-General of the colony
denied that it was illegal. He would not have risen but for
the extraordinary, unfair, and unbecoming language used to-
wards Captain Fitzroy.—( Hear, hear.) That officer had de-
voted all the energy of his mind for the benefit of the colony,
and it was very hard that he should be assailed in his absence
at so great a distance. No voice could be raised in his behalf
in answer to these charges, for four or five months, whilst
those charges rested only on partial information.—k Hear.)
Captain Fitzroy had been so much occupied with the affairs
of the colony, that not one of his relations had received ono
line from him.—( Hear.) It would, therefore, have been only
justice to an absent officer to abstain from attacking him,
until his friends were in a position to explain his acts.
Colonel WOOD would not go into the merits of
the case, but he would protest against two epithets applied to
Captain Fitzroy, who was a distant connexion of his (Colonel
Wood's). He trusted the Hon. and Learned Member for
Liskeard would, on reflection, regret that he had applied to a
gallant naval officer the terms " foolish and incompetent."—
( Hear.) Captain Fitzroy had been many years in the service
of the country. He had been long employed in the survey of
the coast of South America, after which he brought his little
vessel, at great cost to himself, round the world. In that voyage
he touched at New Zealand, and he ultimately accepted the
Governorship at the request of the Company itself, after he had
refused two or three other lucrative appointments.—( Hear.)
Mr. BULLER—Not at the request of the Company.
Colonel WOOD found that he was wrong, it was at the re-
quest of the Colonial Secretary.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
If the whole transaction were before the House, it would bear
a very different complexion.
Sir W. JAMES said it should be remembered that the at-
tack upon Captain Fitzroy was founded upon very imperfect
intormation.—( Hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member for
Liskeard himself said that nine-tenths of the information on
the affairs of Zealand was from the newspapers. He hoped,
therefore, that it would go forth to the country that this was
newspaper information and a newspaper spirit.—( Hear, hear.)
He could not conceive that any facts could be brought forward
to justify the assertion that Captain Fitzroy had, on any occa-
sion, been guilty of conduct unbecoming either a gentleman or
an olEtrer, nor did he believe the statement the Hon. Member
had made would increase his character or reputation in the
country, unless he were prepared substantially and most accu-
rately to prove it.—( Hear, hear.) He would sympathise with
the Honourable Member for Liskeard, when he lamented the
death of his friend, and if the Hon. Gentleman had not made
use of language hi reference to Captain Fitzroy which was un-
justifiabiy strong, he would not have ventured to trespass upon
the time of the House. He hoped, however, the Hon. Mem-
ber would see the necessity of retracting some of the expres-
sions which he had thought proper to use. The expressions
if unfounded in fact, were certainly unbecoming a gentleman,
and he therefore hoped the Hon. Member would either bring
forward some exceedingly strong facts, or else withdraw the
expressions altogether. Captain Fitzroy had, in more than
one instance, proved himself to be a valuable servant ; and if
there was a person upon whom he could lay his finger as a
man remarkable for public integrity, or remarkable for his pri-
vate virtues or humanity, that man was Captain Fitzoy.
Sir CHARLES NAPIER admitted the justness of the en-
logium which had been passed upon Captain Fitzroy by the
Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the House. He was a
remarkably clever man. He had made discoveries and surveys
in a most singular and peculiar manner, but the House must re-
member that a man might be able to make a very good survey, and
yet be a precious bad Governor.—(Laughter.) The Govern-
ment, in his opinion, made a grand mistake when they
sent Captain Fitzroy to govern New Zealand. He would
have made a much better Chancellor of the Exchequer.—

(Laughter.) Nevertheless, he was a gallant officer, but in-
stead of shaking hands with the murderers of Captain Wake-
field, he ought to have executed them.—(Cheers.)
An How. MEMIcEIL said he knew from other sources than the
public prints that, from some cause or other, the conduct of
Captain Fitzroy had not been such as ought to be expected
from a public officer. He should nut, however, have addressed
the House had not the Hon. Member for Liskeard alluded to a
gentleman with whom he was personally acquainted. He knew
from private information that the conduct of Capt. Fitzroy to-
wards Mr. Dillon had been, he would not say, ungentlemanly,
but certainly it was not such as generally characterised the
usual courtesy which was due from one gentleman to another.
Sir R. PEEL regretted that the debate had extended so far.
It would, he thought, have been much better if Hon. Members
who had lately addressed the House had, like the Hon.
Gentleman who moved for the papers, allowed the motion to
pass without remark. Had this course been pursued, he did
not anticipate that any opposition would have been offered to
the motion, as his Noble Friend at the head of-the Colonial
Department, and the Hon. Gentleman who represented him
in that House, were perfectly ready to give the Hon. Gen-
tleman all the information he required. If they had de-
sired to call in question the acts of Captain I,itzroy, he
thought it would have been fair to postpone it until
they had got the papers before them. But, as it was, he
thought injustice had been done both to his Noble Friend at
the head of the Colonial-office, and to Captain Fitzroy, by the
comments which had been made that night. One Hon. Gen-
tleman had gone so far as to say that the Colonial Department
showed great ignorance in their policy towards New Zealand,
because they, as well as the public, had been in possession of
certain information three months, and yet his Hon. Friend had
not recalled Captain Fitzroy. Another Hon. Member had
made use of language which, he must say, was highly unjus •
tifiable. The Hon. Gentleman said it was the duty of his
Hon. Friend to send over a keeper for Captain Fitzroy. is ow,
in his opinion, there was nothing to justify this remark as di-
rected against Captain Fitzroy.—( Hear, hear.) What were
the facts of the case ? Why, true it was, his Hon. Friend bad
not formally made a statement to the public with respect to
this paper currency, but he had nevertheless declared the fact
that Captain Fitzroy had, from some cause or
other, omitted to send any information on the
subject. It was possible, however, that there might
have been some cause to prevent Captain Fitzroy forwarding
his papers. But be that as it may, Captain Fitzroy had omit-
ted to send them, and it would be for him to give some reason
why
_this deficiency should be overlooked. There was no
doubt, then, that his Hon. Friend was not in possession of any
official information on the subject, and would it therefore be
just to condemn, still more to recal an officer performing duties
in a distant colony upon newspaper information ?—( Hear, hear. )
Such information as the Colonial-office was in possession
of, should be freely given. His Noble Friend was perfectly
right in postponing any comments upon these acts of
Captain Fitzroy, until he should have received an explanation
from that gentleman. It would be unjust for his Hon. Friend
to condemn Captain Fitzroy, without giving him an opportu-
nity of explaining his conduct. They were not in possession
of the ordinance relating to the unconvertible paper cur-
rency, and still less were they in possession of any official ac-
count from Captain Fitzroy, stating the circumstances under
which that order was issued ; and therefore the com-
ments of the Hon. Member upon the ignorance of his Noble
Friend were entirely out of place, and unwarranted by the
facts. With respect to debentures, there was no act of Captain
Fitzroy of which: they had not taken official cognizance, and
when they thought them good they approved of them, and
when the debentures were unsatisfactory they directed them to
be modified.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman con-
demned his Hon. Friend for appointing a naval man to the
office of governor of a colony. The Honourable Gentle-
man said it was not proper to take a man from the quarter-
deck, and set him to perform functions which attached
to a civil Government. Now he was not prepared to acquiesce
in this doctrine. He should be sorry, indeed, to say that
either a military or a naval officer was incompetent to per-
form such functions. He could see no reason why gen-
tlemen who had distinguished themselves in one of the
two services should not be appointed to these offices.
But they were talking of a man who had distinguished him-
self not merely in active naval service, but in the scientific
part of that profession. He was a man, moreover, who had a
kindly disposition, and had throughout life been distinguished
for strict honour and integrity. The New Zealand Company
did not object to his appointment, because he found, after the
appoitnrnent was made known to the New Zealand Company,
Mr. Ward, the Secretary of the Company, addressed a letter
to Captain Wakefield, wherein he expressed himself warmly in
favour of Captain Fitzroy. Then the Company had a personal
conference with Captain Fitzroy, and afterwards they con-
sidered it to be their duty to notify to their agent in the colony
what were their impressions with respect to this officer;
and, again, Captain Fitzroy was spoken of by the New Zealand
company in the *lost favourable towns. That was the opinion
expressed by the Company after communicating with Captain
Fitzroy, and therefore whatever the Honourable Member
opposite might now say with respect to the disqualifications
of Captain Fitzroy, his answer was conclusive and complete.
It must be remembered that Captain Fitzroy relinquished a
seat in Parliament, and gave up a lucrative situation, to un-
dertake the government of New Zealand. The gallant
gentleman could not, therefore, be said to have taken
office with aview to remuneration. On the contrary, he believed
that Captain Fitzroy was actuated in such a step only by a
sense of public duty, and by a benevolent desire to become
an instrument of good. Ile fully sympathised with some
of the feelings and sentiments of the Hon. Member for Lis-
keard, for it was not to be wondered at that the Hon. Member
should lament the untimely fate of his friend.— ( Hear, hear.)
But still he must ask the House to suspend its final opinion
upon this case of Captain Fitzroy until they could hear from
the gentleman himself. It was consistent with justice that
they should wait until they had a report from Captain Fitzroy,
who certainly had omitted to forward them certain in-
formation, but he would ask the House, whether it
was not within the range of probability that this
omission had been occasioned by some accident or other? The
Hon. Member for Cockermouth had delayed a motion on the
subject of New Zealand and the Colonial-office, to give him an
opportunity to make himself master of the subject ; but he
could assure the Honourable Member that whenever he
brought his motion forward. he should be perfectly pre-
pared to take his part in 'the debate. His Noble Friend
nsd laid on the table of the House the dispatch rela-
tive to the report of the Committee. It was in pos-
session of the instructions ht had given. His Noble

' Friend did not shrink from any examination of his conduct.
He would say nothing upon that subject now ; but the time
was come when Hon. Gentlemen should be prepared to bring
forward a motion, if they intended to do so, so as to enable his
friends in that House to vindicate his Noble Friend.
Lord HOWICK said that, as it was evident this subject
must be brought forward in a shape which would enable the
House to pronounce a judgment upon both the conduct of the
Government and Captain Fitzroy, he would not on the present
occasion enter upon the field of discussion. He rose for the
purpose of saying that he did not think there was anything in
the language used by his Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Buller)
of which the Right Honourable Baronet could justly complain.
His Hon. and Learned Friend felt strongly upon the miscon-
duct of the Colonial Government, and in a speech, no less dis-
tinguished by moderation than ability, imputing no blame to
the motives of Captain Fitzroy, he condemned—what every
person was at liberty to condemn—the exercise of his judg-
ment, and in his (Lord Howl:4es) opinion his Hon. Friend
could not condemn that judgment too strongly.—( Hear, hear.)
He concurred with his Hon. and Learned Friend in the opinion
that the conduct of Captain Fitzroy, so far as his judgment
was concerned, was utterly without defence. The Right Hon.
Baronet said that they ought not to condemn Captain Fitzroy
unheard, and that the reports of newspapers were not to be de-
pended on. But the newspapers gave formal reports of what
took place in the colony, so that it Was not mere rumour.
When they had dependencies at such a distance, care should
be taken to inform Government of what was going on. Cap-
tain Fitzroy might, at least, have sent home a dispatch which
would arrive as soon as the newspapers, and there was no pos-
sible justification for his not having done so.—( Hear, hear.)
While the welfare of 12,000 or 14,000 persons was in peril from
a total disorganisation, and while accounts of an alarming na-
ture had been brought home far a long time, it was with sur-
prise he learned that her Majesty's Government had not sent
out some gentleman, in whose judgment they could rely, to
supersede Captain Fitzroy.—( Hear, hear.) In his opinion,
her Majesty's Government were, to a great extent, as respon-
sible as Captain Fitzroy, and es this was a matter of import-
ance, he hoped it would soon be brought forward, when they
could pronounce a more distinct judgment upon it.
Mr. MANGLES said that it might appear presumptuous in
him to answer the Right Hon. Baronet, but he had so strong a
reliance on the justice of his ease' and such a strong confidence
in the justice of the House, that he would attempt to reply to
the Right Hon. Gentleman. He had heard three definitions
made by the friends of Captain Fitzroy for him, and he had
heard his conduct strongly upheld by the Right Hon. Baronet.
Sir R. PEEL—Certainly not.
Mr. MANGLES—The Right Hon. Gentleman, at all
events, said that they ought to suspend their judgment respec-
ting the conduct of Captain Fitzroy until they had further
information. The Hon. Baronet the Member for Hull ( sir
W. James) said that Captain Fitzroy was at a distance from
the Government at home, and that he had to act upon his judg-
ment. But it should be recollected that there were others at
the same distance in whose behalf the Government ought to be
watchful and vigilant. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head
of the Government had alluded to a letter in which the New
Zealand Company, at the time of the appointment of Captain
Fitzroy, expressed their confidence both in Lord Stanley and
Captain Fitzroy. That letter was written, believing that
Captain Fitzroy had given up a lucrative employ-
ment in this country, and that he had undertaken
his appointment in New Zealand solely upon public
grounds; and they did not now question his motives,
though they condemned his judgment. When they wrote
that letter, they were also in a state of deception as to what
had been done by the Colonial-office. He believed that
Captain Fitzroy went out to carry out the agreement en-
tered into by Lord Stanley and the colony, and which
was substituted for the better agreement made with the
Noble Lord the Member for the City of London. They were
under the iron foot of the Colonial-office, and they were ob-
liged to submit ; there were now ten thousand of their fel-
low-subjects in a state of ruin, because they could not get
one acre of land from the Crown. They had not known at
the time that Captain Fitzroy had instructions from Lord
Stanley to explain away the agreement they had made with
him, and they had never seen the letter containing those in-
structions, till many months after Captain Fitzroy had left
the country. If they had known of that letter, they would
have thrown up the affairs of the Company altogether, and
resigned themselves to the loss of the money they had ex-
pended rather than submit to such treatment. Unhappily for
for them the state of the law was such that they could not sue
the Crown to fulfil its engagements. In India, which was
unfortunately under the Board of Directors—(A laugh)—
Lord Cornwallis had, in 1793, placed the Government and
the subject on an equality in the courts of justice. If that
were the case in New Zealand, they would apply to the laws of
their country, and require redress for the monstrous injuries
which they had received from the Colonial-office. Their
only resource was now to appeal to the justice of the House;
and as this was not a political or a party question, but an
appeals made by men who believed themselves to be
grievously injured, and not only themselves, but thousands of
their countrymen, whom they were the instruments of sending
out to New Zealand—he hoped that they would not appeal in
vain. On looking over the correspondence between the Co-
lonial-office and the Governor of New Zealand, he found
that in 1842, 12,414/. were expended, the greater part of
which expense arose from blunders sanctioned by the
Government. Whatever else the New Zealand Com-
pany might be guilty of, they were guiltless of the
bankruptcy of the colony which was to be laid entirely
at the door of the Government. With regard to the outrages
which had been committed—those outrages in the north, where
the Governor had full sway—the natives and the Company
wereon the best terms; -there was no dispute between them, the
dispute was alone-between- the Government and the natives,
with which the Company had nothing to do. It was owing to
the conduct of the Government that their countrymen were
plundered, that their countrywomen had been outraged, and
that their flags had been torn, and, after all this, the Governor
was obliged to conciliate them, and Captain Fitzroy did not
want testimony as to the conduct of the natives in the imme-
diate vicinity of Auckland, for he found in a debate which had
taken place in the Assembly, that Captain Fitzroy said, in reply
to Dr. Martin, that the Hon. Gentleman seemed to desire that
he should drive the public from the towns to the bushes, where
they had neither safety nor food. He thought that when the
whole case of the Government of New Zealand and the con-
duct of the Colonial-office was brought fully under considera-
tion, justice would be awarded.—(Hear.)
Sir it. INGLIS defended the conduct of Captain Fitzroy,
and the Government of New Zealand. Much had been said
against him and her Majesty's Government; but he could not
but think that a fundamental error—a fundamental sin—had
been committed by the New Zealand Company.—( Hear,
hear.) His sympathy would always be with the poor and the
weak. The inhabitants of New Zealand were those with
whom sympathy ought to be enlisted ; they were not children,
because they could trace their descent from thirty generations,
or from the time of the Norman Canquest, and in that he was
borne out in the statements of the protector of the aborigines—
Sir George Clarke. He maintained, therefore, that the inha-
bitants of New Zealand were entitled to respect, and this
country had recognised their national character. The course
to be pursued by this country was clear—they must either
make it a case of conquest or a case of recognition. They had
adopted the latter course, and therefore they were bound to
recognise New Zealand as a free nation—( Hear, hear)—and
from that moment all their proceedings ought to be upon the
footing of equal rights. The case at present was a case be-
tween a Company and the inhabitants, the object of the Com-
pany being pecuniary interest. It was not high principle
alone that brought any of the individuals connected with the
Company together, but a commercial speculation.—( Hear,
hear.) Party had nothing to do with this question, it was
pounds, shillings, and pence alone—( Hear, hear)—that ac-
tuated all parties to become connected with the Company.—
( Hear, hear.) Captain Fitzroy, he was assured, had no sordid
motives in view, and he therefore had no hesitation in giving
his support to her Majesty's Government on the present
occasiou.
The question having been put from the Chair,
Mr. G. W. HOPE rase to move the amendment of which
he had given notice, namely, to leave out the words, " fulfil
Lord Stanley's agreement of May 12, 1843," and to insert the
words, " execute Lord Stanley s instructions." In the fifth
paragraph, to move to leave out the words, " at a less price
than that fixed by the Act of sth and 6th Vie. c. 36." He
thought if the Company chose not to bring forward their case,
they ought to abstain from making the assertions they had
done.
Mr. C. BULLER hoped the House would not go into a
discussion to-night upon such an unsettled verbal distinction as
that now attempted to be drawn. He thought the course that
had been pursued by Lord Stanley was a direct promise, but
how had that promise been performed? lie contended that
between men in private life the course which had been pursued
would not be advisable. Supposes he were to make an
agreement ?
Mr. HOPE—There was no agreement.
Mr. C. BULLER—Suppose there were an agreement, and
suppose his own servant came to him and said, " I don't know
why those instructions were given without consulting me," in
such a case there could never be faith between gentlemen and
public officers. He did not care a rush for anything but the
substance of the case. They had received the news of Captain
Fitzroy's proceedings in the colony for the first nine months,
and it did not appear that he had taken a single step to carry
out the promise t everything which had been done with regard
to the company's title had been upon the sense of the old un-
derstanding. He did not care whether it was called a promise
or an agreement, but he did want to know what were the in-
structions given to :the Governor-General of New Zealand, in
pursuance of the promise in Mr. Hope's letter of the 12th
of May.
Mr. HOPE said the instructions given were in pursuance of
thus words of the letter of the 12th of May. ( The Hon. Mem-
ber then read the letter. )
Mr. C. BULLER wanted to know what had been done to
fulfil the promise ?
Mr. HOPE said the Hon. Member knew that the course
was to select portions of land, for which they were to obtain a
grant. It was not for the Governor to make a conditional
grant without application being made to him for that purpose ;
and the only intelligence which they had on the subject, after
a great deal of discussion, was the compensation which it was
proposed to give to the natives. Mr. Hope then consented to
the insertion of the words "in pursuance of Mr. Hope's
letters of the 12th of May."
The motion, as amended, was then agreed to.
NEW POOR LAW.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD rose to call the attention of the
House to the petition from the ratepayers and inhabitants of
Rochdale ( presented Feb. 25), against the introduction of the
new poor-law into their district ; and to move, " That the peti-
tioners be heard at the bar of the House, in support of the
allegations contained in that petition." Although lie rose at
that late hour of the night, under considerable disadvantage,
yet he thought it better to proceed with his motion
than trespass on the time of the House on another occasion.
From the nature of his motion, the question might appear to be
a local one, but it was in reality a question of great public im-
portance. The question was, whether the authority of the
Poor-law Commissioners was to be forced into every corner of
England, whether all the great districts now under local acts
were still to manage their poor under the Vestry Act, or were
to be compelled to bow their necks to the yoke of that sove-
reign authority which had been, not inappropriately, called
that of the three kings of Somerset-house. There was also
another question arising out of this one, whether the New Poor-
law Act should continue in its present form, or be amended in
such a manner as to render it more conformable with justice,
policy, and the constitution of England. These were the ques-
tions raised in the petition presented from Rochdale, which he
had brought before the House, and he would shortly relate
the circumstances connected with the petition. The dis-
trict of Rochdale had been managed for twenty-six years
under the Select Vestry Act, and he believed no fault had been
found with the manner in which the relief of the poor had been
conducted under that Act. In the year 1837, a union was
formed for the purpose of registration, under the
New Poor-law Act, but the relief of the poor
was to continue as before under the Select Vestry Act.
But on the 25th of October last. an order was issued by
the Commissioners, that this mode of relief should cease,
and the district be brought under the operation of the New
Poor Law. Notwithstanding this order of the Commissioners,
it was found impossible to obtain a Board of Guardians to
carry out the order ; neither guardians nor official magis-
trates could be assembled to carry it cut. They were de-
termined not to be the instruments of doing what they
thought would be injurious to the porn- and the locality.
On the 24th of November a mandamus was applied for- by
the Commissioners in the Court of Queen's Bench, and it was
something strange that when the mandamus was applied for,
it was not in the usual way of moving for a rule, compell-
ing the guardians to show cause why they had not
complied with the order; but a motion was made