The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-30 00:00:00

HE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 30, 1844.

Mr. FERRAND presented a petition from the
West Riding of York hire against the Masters and
Servants Bill. _

diminish the risk of embarrassment and danger which
they foresaw from the act of the Court of Directors.
Sir R. INGLIS said he had no wish to interrupt
the Hon. Member for Bath unnecessarily. lie
thought, however, that great inconvenience would
arise, if Hon. Members persisted in exercising their
right in a case like that before the House.
Mr. FRENCH sail he thought there was another
question which ought to be put to the Right lion.
Gentleman at th 3 head of her Majesty's Go-
vernment. His answer would leave' the country
Wider --the impression that the Court of Directors
lad taken the Government by surprise. Now
he • wished to know whether it was not true that they
had had, considerable
.notice of the intention of the
Court of Directors to remove the Governor-General
of India ?

farther than this—that as upon all the leading articles
of the Customs there has been an increased
consumption, so upon all the different articles
of Excise there has been an improvement. Not
equally early, but as surely indicative of the improving
state of the country. In the year ending at the last quar-
ter there was an increase in every article of this kind.
The House, therefore, will perceive that the increase
has been progressive in every respect. With respect
to the estimates, the, calculation I formed is as nearly
as possible accurate. The estimate of 7,000,0001.
in the Excise prodneed 7,101,000/. The taxes;
which I estimated at 4,200,0001., produced
4,192,0001., and the only observation I have
to make on that branch of the revenue is this—that
there was an apprehension expressed that the income-
tax would lead to the diminution of other taxes, espe-
cially the assessed taxes. Now it will be found that
that has not been the case, and that there has not
been, in that branch of the revenue, the pressure that was
supposed. With respect to the Post-office, lam happy
to say that the increase from that source exceeds the
amount of the calculation which I made by 28,0001.
The estimate I made was 600,000/. ; the receipts
have been 628,0001. With respect to the Crown lands
there have been similar results.- I estimated the re
venue from that source at 130,000/. ; the amount has
been 147,0001. The miscellaneous estimates I esti-
mated at 870,000/. • the receipts were 803,000/. The
total, therefore of these several items is, that the revenue
which I had estimated for the year at 50,150,000/.
has produced an income of 52,138,8401., being an
increase to the extent of 2,700,0001. beyond my cal-
culation. With, respect to the expenditure of
the country, it will be found that my esti-
mates have literally been exceeded. The
expenditure in last year for the army was 6,188,000/.,
being a reduction of upwards of 500,0001. for the
expenditure from the last year ; but it is due to the
House that I should state this, that they should not
labour under the impression that it was the case,
that we have not been able to make the reduction.
The difference arose from another cause, namely, that
in the course of the last year the Indian Government
made larger payments on account of the debt it owed
to the Crown for the military service, and also from
the further circumstance that, peace being restored,
there had not been the same necessity to keep funds
in the commissariat chest. The expenditure in the
course of the last year has been reduced by 500,0001.
The reduction in the navy is not one to be taken as a
reduction of expenditure, because the payments on
account of that service are made at uncer-
certain periods, and it is impossible to calculate
what payments may be required for that service. As
I was in error with regard to the amount of the
revenue which produced 2,700,0001. more than I
calculated upon, so in consequence of the decrease in
the expenditure to which I have adverted, there has
been an error in nearly the same direction for
650,0001. less than I calculated would be required,
when I made my statement to the House last year,
was expended. Taking these sums together it
will appear that I had calculated on a surplus
of 700,0001., the total surplus in the year
will be a sum of 4;165,000/.—(Loud cheers.)
It will be in the recollection of the House that,
at the close of last year, I had to announce to
the House a very considerable deficiency of in-
come to meet the expenditure, amounting to
2,400,000/. ; and, as I then stated to the House,
that I believed that deficiency to be rather apparent
than real, I recommended to the House to make
no provision for the payment of that deficiency—
not, to raise means by loan for the purpose
of getting rid of it, but that it should
be defrayed out of the surplus of future years, as cir-
cumstances, from time to time, might allow ; and
I am happy to be able to announce to the
House that the deficiency of 1843, which
amounted altogether to 2,749,0001., has been
cleared off and,discharged out of the produce of the
revenue of the present year, and after the discharge
of the debt incurred in the course of last year, it will
enable us to present to the public a surplus of
1,400,000/. on the Ist of April just passed.—(Cheers.)
So far then as the past year is concerned I believe
the House will agree with me that my statement is
satisfactory. We will now proceed to consider the
estimates and prospects for the year on which we
have entered.

Mr. W. 0. STANLEY presented a petition from
the Chairman and Board of Guardians of a place, the
name of which we could not catch, complaining of
the clause in the Poor-law Amendment Act relative
to the burial of paupers; also, a petition from the
Isle of Wight against the union of the Sees of St.
Asaph and Bangor.
Captain PLUMRIDGE presented a petition from
Falmouth, on the subject of.tli-o Small Debti

Sir. GEORGE Sl'RlCKLAND.Preserkte4 a pe-
tition from Preston against the Masters and Servants
Bill.

Mr. MILES presented petitions against the union
of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor. Also a petition
from the Deanery of Bath and Wells, praying the
House to , address the Queen for the purpose of oh-
taining for the clergy the right of meeting in con-
vocation.

Sir R. PEEL thought he had not said a word
frpm which any Hon. Gentleman could infer that the
Government had been taken by surprise. The Go-
vernment most certainly was not taken by surprise ;
but they had had the opportunity of stating their
views to the Court of Directors, who had certainly
given a fair and full consideration to their repre-
sentations before they took the step in question.
Now he must beg to decline answering any further
question. lie had given the House all the informa-
tion that could be expected from him, in answer to a
question of which he had not notice, and he trusted
that the house would not suppose that he acted with
disrespect in declining to answer anything further.
THE CHINA COMPENSATION.

Mr. Alderman COPELAND presented a petition
from Stoke-upon-Trent against any further grant
to the college of Maynooth.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN presented several
petitions from the county of Kent against the union
of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor.
HAIL-STORM POLICIES OF INSURANCE.

Petitions, praying for a repeal of the Stamp Duty
upon hail-storm policies, were presented by the
Earl of March, Mr. Blackstone, Mr. Yorke, Admiral
Dundas, Mr. Round, Mr. J. Round, and Mr. Ilussey.

Mr. F. FRENCH gave notice that he should to-
morrow bring forward a motion with respect to poor-
laws in Ireland.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that, before the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer proceeded with his exposition
of the Ways and Means, he should beg leave to ask
the Right Hon. Gentleman to explain how it was
that the money was borrowed upon Exchequer
to pay the opium compensation, whereas the revenue
of the last year exceeded the expenditure by a very
large sum ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that the amount of the opium compensation was
1,200,0001., and the expenses of the war 800,0001.,
making in the whole 2,000,0001., which would be re•
paid by the Chinese Government, and from that fund
the Exchequer Bills (as we understood) would be
paid off. The loan was made for the double purpose
of paying the compensation and the defraying the
expense of the war.
Mr. lIUME said his Hon. Friend was not aware
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in order to
have a surplus income, had borrowed the sum of two
millior.s upon Exchequer Bills. Had his Hon.
Friend consulted him (Mr. Hume) upon the subject,
he could have explained the matter to him —(Laugh-
ter.) His Hon. Friend, however, was quite right
in putting his question. He (Mr. Flume) was
aware that last year the Chancellor of the Exchequer
did explain this smatter, and the late Chancellor of the
Exchequer pointed out to the House the cheat that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer was then putting
upon the public. But he (Mr. 'Hume) perfectly
understood at the time the money was borrowed that
it was to be paid as soon as the remittances from
China were received.

SAVVGS BANKS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
gave notice that, on Thursday next, he should move
for leave to bring in a Bill for the regulation of
•
savings banks.
TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES
AND THE ZOLLVEREIN.

Dr. BOWRING wished to know from the Right
Hon: Gentleman at the head of the Government, whe-
ther he would have any objection to lay on the table
of the House the correspondence which had taken
place between the British and Prussian G3vernments
on the subject of the late treaty concluded between
the United States and the Zollverein.

Sir R. PEEL was understood to say that he had
no objection.
FACADE OF THE BRITISH ➢iUSEUM.

Mr. M. MUSES wished to put the question of
which he had given notice, to the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman (Sir R. Peel), respecting the new façade of
the British Museum. He wished to know whether
the plan proposed had been definitively agreed upon ?
Sir R. PEEL begged to state that he considered
there never was any architectural plan which received
more mature consideration than the present, and the
decision of the trustees had been always understood
to be final and complete. So long ago as 1822 a re-
solution was moved in the House that no plan for
the British Museum should be proceeded with on
the mere consent of the trustees, but that the
consent of Parliament should be had. In
1823 all of the trustees had approved of the
plan now in course of being carried into execution.
The plan had been submitted to Committees, one in
the year 1836 and one in 1838, and it received the
implied sanction of both. Some courses of stone had
actually been laid according to the plan, and no devia-
tion from the plan could be made without causing
considerable expense ; under these circumstances he
trusted the Hon. Gentleman would see the necessity
of not disturbing a plan which emanated from a most
eminent architect, and bad received the sanction of
the Lords of the Treasury, and subsequently of two
Committees of the House of Commons.

Mr. WILLIAMS said he had another question to
put to the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Cries of " Oh,
oh.") He had been informed that a very large
amouut of money had been laid out by the Commis-
sioners for Reducing the National Debt in the pur-
chase of Consols. He understood that something
like from 150,0001. to 200,000/. per week
had been expended for some time past. He wished,
therefore, to ask how much money had been laid out
by the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National
Debt since the commencement of this year, on ac-
count of surplus revenue—on account of savings'
banks, and on account of money received for the pur-
chase of Government annuities.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said he was sorry that he could not give the Hon.
Gentleman the figures he required at the moment, not
having had the slightest expectation that the question
was about to be, put to him.—(Hear, hear.) He
would be, however, perfectly ready to give the Hon.
Gentleman the required information to-morrow.

GrIVERNOR-GENERALSHIP OF INDIA.
On the motion that the Order of the Day for going
into Committee of Ways and Means be read,
Mr. ROEBUCK rose. He begged to solicit the
attention of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of
her M;jesty's Government to the questions which he
was about to put to him. On Friday, in answer to a
question from the Right Honourable Gentleman the
Member for Edinburgh (Mr. Macaulay), the Right
Honourable Baronet had made it clear to the
House, and to the country, that the Court of
Directors of the East India Company had
recalled the Governor-General. As that was
a matter which might be attended with very im-
portant consequences, he was now induced to solicit
the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman to his
question. He (Mr. Roebuck) understood that on
Wednesday last a dispatch had been sent from this
country to India, on the receipt of which
the Noble Lord at the head of the Indian Govern-
ment would cease to be Governor-General, and the
government of that country would be transferred to
others. The question to which he solicited attention
was, who was now to be considered responsible
for the Government of India? Whether was it
the Government of this country, namely, the
Administration, the members of which he saw oppo-
site to him, or the parties who had the power of dis-
missing the Governor-General, who were to be
considered responsible for the government of that
country ? He wanted also to know if the Right
Honourable Baronet were able to give him an
answer, and he should be sorry to put the question if
an answer were at all inconvenient, as he had not
given the Right Hon. Baronet notice of his motion,
though perhaps the Right Hon. Gentleman was not
wholly unaware of his intention to put it.
A. dispatch went from this country which
would alter the whole nature of the Go-
vernment of India, and anybody who knew
anything of that country knew that from Cape Comorin
to the Himalayas the greatest commotion—(Cries of
" Order," from the Ministerial benches, amidst
which Sir R. Inglis rose to " Order" and immediately
sat down.) Mr. Roebuck resumed.—He had so often
been subjected to this species of interruption,
that he could not but believe that there
was some meaning in it.—(Hear, hear.) They were
now on an Order of the Day for Supply—for a Com-
mittee of Ways and, Means—which involved every
question . interesting to the state of the nation—so
that he was perfectly in order, and he was astonished
that so old a Member as the non. Gentleman opposite
should have interrupted him. He was about to
re-
mark, that any one who knew India must be aware
that the reception of news such as that to which ;he
had alluded would create a great sensation among
all the native powers from Cape Comorin to the
Himalayas. Now nothing could be more dangerous
to our dominions in India than the effect which might
be produced by such a dispatch. He therefore
wished to . know from the Right Honourable
Baronet whether he was prepared to maintain
the policy which had hitherto been maintained
by the person representing the Government !in
India; and, with respect to the Government of India at
the present time, considering the extraordinary and
anomalous position in which it was placed, he was
anxious to learn if"the Right Hon. Baronet was prepared
to take upon himself the responsibility of carrying
out the policy of the Directors of the East India Com-
pany. He was aware of the difficulty of the question,
and he admitted that he had not given notice of big
intention to put it.
Sir R. PEEL had not known of the intention of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to put the ques-
tion on the important subject to which he had re-
ferred, and he (Sir R. Peel) should certainly have
wished for a little time for consideration. In the
first place, with regard to the provisions of the ex-
isting law, the House was probably aware that the
relations of the Executive Government with regard
to the administration of the affairs of India were
extremely anomalous. The respective positions of
the Government and of the East India Company were
not very well defined. The Crown and the East
India Company had each certain powers ; but with
regard to the nature and extent of those powers, he
must refer to the acts of the Legislature. The East
India Company possessed the power of appointing the
Governor-General of India. That power could only-
be exercised subject to the approbation of the Crown
—that approbation • was signified by the sign-manual,
counter signed by the Secretary of State. That was the
exact provision of the law with respect to the appoint-
ment. The appointment was made under ordinary cir-
cumstances, by concert and mutual understanding, be-
tween the Government and the East India Company;
but the letter of the law was that the right of nomi-
nation was with the East India Company, subject to the
approbation of the Crown. The right of the East India
Company to remove the Governor-General, without the
concurrence ofthe Crown was, he apprehended, unques-
tionable. In the last Act, which comprised the charter of
the East India Company, and extended it for a certain
time, there was a proviso that nothing in that Act
should be construed in any degree to diminish or in-
terfere with the power of the Board of Directors to
recal the Governor-General of India. Now, all
that he was at liberty, consistently with his
sense of public duty, to state on that occasion, was
that the Court of Directors had, in the case of the
removal of Lord Ellenborough, exercised the right
which they unquestionably possessed under an Act of
the Legislature, to recal and dismiss at their will and
pleasure, the Governor-General of India.—

Mr. COLLETT (Athlone)—What is the amount
of the property-tax ? •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—
-5,315,0001. which is somewhat larger than the esti-
) mate I had made last year, in consequence (as we
understood) of there being a larger return from Scot-
land than I had anticipated. Now, Sir, in making
' an estimate for the year on which we have entered, I
.have adhered to the rule I laid down for my-
self on a former occasion, that of not being be-
trayed into too sanguine expectations, . which
the future would not bear out. • I therefore content
myself with taking the Customs at little more than
the amount they have actually produced last year,
viz., 21,500,0001.; and remembering that last year we
derived 800,0001. from corn, and not being certain at
,at this period of the year what may be the state of
the harvest of the country, I have thought it
better to take the estimate of the produce of the
Customs as not greater than what they pro-
duced last year; and I therefore take the
estimate, as I have already said, at what I
I took it last year, namely, 21,500,0001. With
respect to the Excise, from every account I have been
able twderive, from those best conversant with the
affairs of the Excise, I do not apprehend that
there is just ground for fixing the estimate for the
Excise at a higher rate than I estimated it in the year
gone by, namely, 13,000,0001., which is the
amount I propose to take this item at. I
mean to take the stamps at 7,000,0001., the assessed
taxes at 4,200,000/., and the property tax 5,100,0001.,
which is about the amount produced in England last
year. To these I will add the Post-office at
600,0001. only, and, for thisreason, the revenue ofthe
Post-office made some little progress in the course of
last year, and I doubt not that in the course of next
year it will make a certain progress also. But
at the same time there are several arrangements
now pending at the present moment with respect to
the postage of foreign letters, and there are some
negotiations going on with foreign countries with re-
spect to the postage of letters in foreign parts,
which will necessarily lead to considerable expendi-
ture. Therefore, Ido not think it safe to take the
estimate for the Post-office at more than 600,0001.;
the Crown lands, I will take at 130,0001.,
and the Miscellaneous estimates at 250,0001.,
making together a total estimate of 51,790,0001.
With respect to the expenditure of the country, the
first item to which the House will naturally expectl
should call their attention is the payment on account
of the National Debt. The payment for the last
year was 29,300,000/. —for the present, 27,697,0001.
—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") But it will be
necessary for me, in making this statement, lest
the House may labour under a delusion in supposing
that there realty is such a decrement in the expense
of the national debt, to state that the deficiency which
mnst be paid in the present year, as compared with left,
amounts to 1,400,0001.; but, as I said before, the
House must not be led into the delusion that that is
the real decrease. When I recommended the reduc-
tion of the Three-and-a- Half per Cents., I suggested,
with a view of equalising the payments, that the new
Stock, which was previously paid in 'January and
July, should be made payable in April and (0 ctober.
The real diminution of the debt, in the present year,
is one-half of the benefit derivable from the
Three-and-a-Half per Cents., being 313,00*.
I am anxious to impress this on the House,
lest they should run away with the idea that
the surplus is so much greater than it really is—
lest they should believe it to be what they might
at first naturally suppose, 1,100,000/. The charges,
however, for the year on account of the debt and con-
solidated fund amount to 3,097,0001.
Mr. HUME—The Exchequer Bills

The CHANCELLOR of -the EXCHEQUER—.
This includes the Exchequer 'Bills, and the interest
thereon. The estimate for the year has been already,
for the most part, before the House ; and the House
is sensible that there has been riot a considerable, but
a certain reduction in the total amount as com-
pared with last year, and a considerable redaction
as to the preceeding year. I am far from saying that
the reduction .has been carried to the extent to which
the peace and tranquillity of the country must lead
the House to expect; hut it has been carried to that
point in which up to the present moment, upon a
most careful review of the circumstances of the coun-
try, I believe it would be possible to carry it
with safety. The estimate for the Army
amounts to 6,616,0001. The estimate of the navy
to 6,250,0001. instead of 6,380,0001., as in the
preceding year ; and, in this expenditure, provi-
sion has been made for great national works.
The ordnance to a sum of 1,842,0001., and the miscel-
laneous estimates, which haVe not yet been all
voted by the House, I calculate will amount to
somewhere about 3,000,000/. There are also,
during the present year, several extraordinary
sources
o no of
expenditure
e. to
Illaipeh pealrswtish omteo dt
hartait
wille
t)
be necessary during the course of the present year to
make provision for the payment of several extra-
ordinary items, and the House ought to be made aware
of those items. The first item to which I wish to
draw the attention of the House is one connected
with the late hostilities which have been carried
on in China. The accounts which were presented
to the House, last year, carried the accounts
of the disbursements payable to the East India
Company, on account of the war in China, up to a pe
riod of six months shorter than that for which the
East India Company claims. I have not yet
been able to procure the accounts cf the whole amount
which the East India Company claims, but I calculate
that the sum which we shall have to pay to. the East
India Company, in addition to the accounts already
laid before Parliament, is..about 400,00 W, ancl,l have

hear.) The determination to recal was taken
by them on their undivided and exclusive
responsibility. The act of recal was an act which had
not received the sanction and concurrence of the
servants of the Crown. Without that sanction and
concurrence the act was unquestionably a legal and a
valid act. With respect to the question of the Hon.
Gentleman, whether her Majesty's Government con-
sidered itself responsible for the government of
India, he must, under present circumstances, decline
entering. into any discussion of that question.—(Hear,
hear.) All he could say was, that with reference to
the fact, whether her Majesty's Government did or
did not coincide with the Court of Directors, their
sense of public duty would induce-them to take that
course which should appear to them best caTeultaddato