The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-03 00:00:00

Mr,DUNCOMBE gave notice of putting the question

accordingly.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE asked if the Right Hon.
Ihronet (Sir R. Peel) had any objection to lay on the
table a copy of the judgment and commitment in the
case of " The Queen v. O'Connell and others."
Sir R. PEEL said, perhaps the Hon. Gentleman would
give notice of his intention to move for it.
CANADA.—MR. BARROW.
On the Order of the Day for going into Committee.
on the Sugar Duties being moved,
Lord SANDON presented a petition from Liverpool
against any reduction of the duty.
Mr. ROEBUCK hoped the House would allow him to
take that opportunity to do justice to a gentleman,. Mr.
Barrow, respecting whom he had made some observa-
tions on the debate on Canada. [The Hon. Member
spoke in so low it tone that he could not be correctly
followed.] He had received a letter from Mr. Barrow,
explaining that he was not the author of the note which
he (Mr. Roebuck) had attributed to him in the debate.

WAYS AND MEANS.-SUGAR DUTIES,

The Order of the Day for the Committee of Ways
and Means (Sugar Duties) having been read, and the
Speaker having left the chair,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
although he was addressing the House formed into Com
reittee of Ways and Means, the object of which was
essentially to provide means for raising the supply for
carrying on the Government and administering the
affairs of the nation, he was sure that there was not a
Member who heard him that was not prepared
to admit that questions were involved in the
resolutions which he had to submit, of far
greater importance than mere considerations of
revenue.—(Hear, hear.) 'He was sure they would all
admit that the sugar duties involved considerations of
greatest importance to all classes in this courary—to the
interests of our own colonies, and to our intercourse with
those nations with which we had so long and steadily
delayed to form treaties, in consequence of considera-
tions with which this question was connected. It
would be his duty to reconcile the various con-
flicting points which would arise out of the alte-
ration in the • sugar duties; It would be his
duty to reconcile the measures which would be taken to
secure a supply of sugar with the course which the
Government had pursued with respect to the slave
trade, and also with the interests of those who had . in-
vested their property in the colonial possessions of this
country, and which it was his duty, as- he believed -it
was the inclination of that House, to uphold. • There
was one thing iii which he felt satisfied that he should
have the unanimous support of the House—as to the
necessity of keeping up the supply of sugar which had
become almost a necessary of life, essential to the com-
fort of a large number of the people ; upon this ,the
-House had always expressed a decided opinion.
The maintenance of an essential article was a subject on
which he was sure there would be no difference ofopinion,
although there might be a difference as to the manner
in which it would be most expedient to maintain
that supply. That object had heretofore been secured
by the legislation which they had at .different times
adopted. Previous to the emancipation of the negroes
the eroduce of our West Indian colonies was more than
sufficient for the consumption in these countries, and
allowed of the export of at least one-third
of the whole. At that time the supply
of this country was secured, and there was a good assu-
rance that the price would be kept down to a proportion
with the prices in other countries, by the effect of that
large and constant surplus, disposed of in the other
markets of Europe. But when the emancipation
of the negroes took place, there was a pro-
bability that there would be a diminished supply, to
meet which diminution Parliament determined, by
equalising the duties upon East and West Indian sugars,
to bring into the market the produce of a part of the
Britishdominions, having a rich soil, cultivated by free
and cheep labour, and possessing very great
facilities of communication and transit to this country.
He did not apprehend that the immediate consequence
of adhering to the present system would be to create
any great dearth
,of sugar, or cause any serious-incon-
venience in this' respect. But when he' considered the
improved condition of the population within the last
year, from the extension of employment and increase of
wages that had-taken place, and the consequent'demand
that would arise for an article that was now little short
of a necessary of life,' he had thought it his duty to sub-
mit_ a measure that should provide, not merely
for the supply of it that might be imme-
diately required for the consumption of the
country, but also to create something of a surplus. There
was, in consequence of their altered relations with China,
a facility of procuring a supply from that country, and
it was important, in order to extend their trade, that a
freer admission should be given to, other articles -from
China than those which they had hitherto taken. Under
these circumstances -he had thought it his duty to sub-
mit the proposition of which he had given notice, for
the admission of free labour sugar upon the terms stated
in the resolution. The proposition was not now for
the first time submitted to the House, and on looking
back on the occasions on which it had been under
consideration, he could not find that there had been any
disposition on the part of any gentleman in that House
to object to the principle of an arrangement. If it .had
been opposed on those occasions, it had been metiv
arguments applicable to the circumstances of the tune
at which the proposition was made, He would ask the
lion. Member for Taunton (Mr. Labouchere) upon
whom it had devolved to resist this propi?sition, whether.,
his objection to it did not arise principally from the
circumstances of the time. This country was then under
the obligations of commercial treaties with the United
States, and particularly with Brazil, and it was impos-
sible to draw the distinction between slave and free-
grown sugar ; while professing to admit the latter they
might give indiscriminate admission to the latter.
In regulating the mode in which free labour
sugar was to be* admitted to their markets,
they must first guard against the invasionof the
-principles on which they proceeded, by allowing
the introduction of free labour sugar being made a cloak
for bringing in the sugar produced by slaves. With respect
to the mode of guarding against such an introduction, he
thought there would be but little difficulty. It-had been
found .that a certificate of origin, accompanied as it was
-now intended it should be by the certificate of the
British .'authority at the port of shipment, were
sufficient to prevent any invasion of the law.
It was not necessary to repeat the arrangements which
would be adopted to prevent the introduction of slave-
labour sugar under the denomination of free-labour
sugar. Those arrangements had been found quite
effectual in relation to other articles. There were some
who supposed that the protective duty of 10s. per cwt. was
more than was necessary for the protection of our colonial
interests against the competition of free-labour sugar, but
it should be recollected, that in Java alone a much"
greater quantity of sugar was raised than was requisite
for the supply of the country; and it was raised in
great quantities in Manilla, where its cultivation was
capable of being greatly extended; and that with re-
spect to Chins, while it was impossible to calculate the
quantity of sugar which must be expected from that
couetry, it was well knoivn that it 'exported large
quantities to countries in the neighbourhood. - Ile
found, ' however, that the measure' which he
was about to "submit to the Ileiuse was likely
to meet with opposition from various quarters on
different grounds. The lion. Member for Dumfries
argued that no distinction of duty ought to be
made between sugar, the produce of the British
possessions, and thrt which was the produce of any
other country. The Noble Lord (the Member for
London) was prepared to contend that no' distinc-
tion in duty ought to be made between sugar the
produce of free 'labour and 'sugar the produce of sieve
labour, whilst his Hon. Friend-behind him was prepared
to agree that the protection proposed for colonial sugar
against sugar the produce of free labour was insufficient,
and therefore he proposed a reduction of the duty on
colonial sugar. With respect to the proposition of the
Hon. Member for Dumfries, he need not occupy the time
of the House by discussing it. It had been fully discussed
in 1842, when the House had expressed an opinion not in
accordance with that entertained by. the Hon. Member,
and during the present year in a discussion on the ques-
tion of coffee; the House had adhered to its former opinion,
which was that the colonial possessions of the empire were
entitled to protection, He came, in the next place, to
consider the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman, the
Member for Bristol, and he could assure him that those
interested in the West Indian pessessions of the country
must not impute to the Government waist of sym-
pathy with their interests and feelings. He felt
deep sympathy with their interests,' and he could make
all allowances for the feelings under which they laboured.
But after most attentive consideration of the subject, be
believed the measuie which he. ,was about to pro-
pose was the ope which would ultimately prove the
best calculated to, promote their permanent prosperity.
He would not deny but that the effect of the measure
would be to effect a certain reduction in the price of
sugar, or rather to prevent its augmentation; but of this
he was confident, that all of the dangers which could affect
the West Indian interests, none could be greater than
such an increase in the price of their staple commodity
as would inflict such an injury upon' the population of
this country, as to raise a permanently hostile feeling
against them. He was convinced that if the price of
sugar was to rise to 495. a cwt., as it was in 1840, the
effect which it would produce upon the permanent interests
of the colonial proprietors would be most disastrous.
He thought it was necessary where it was intended to make
li change in the amount of duty at the earliest possible mo-
ment, to intimate to the parties what was the amount of the
protection to be ensured on the introduction of sugar,
the produce of free labour. The-colonies stood in
this particular situation. They were looking .at
en early period of having the
.opportunity of
employing additional labour. In order to do this,
they. would have to invest .capital,; and he . thought,
therefore, before they called upon them to embark in this
expedition, it was but right that they should know dis-
tinctly that the protection theynow had would be retained
to them. With respect to the-notice that had been given
by. the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London,
he had only to say that he thought it would be found to
be one very difficult to 'carry out. The Noble Lord was
prepared to extent to all sugar the *tie protection.
The views of the Noble Lord appeared to him not
calculated to effect the object he had in view. lie was
for unlimited introduction, and that would undoubtedly
tend to theinereaseof theslave-trade. But he would leave
it to the Noble Lord to explain his own views on the sub-
ject. What inconsistency would it not be on their part to
make such exertions as they had been making for the
suppression of the slave trade, and which was still car-
ried on in spite of all their energy, in spite of the vessels
which they had on the coast of Africa, if they now
gave facilities for the iotroduction of slave-grown
sugar. It would give those who, seer engaged in the
slave trade every inducement to continue it. Whin the
estimates were before the House the Hon. Member for
Montrose said, with perfect truth, that they could
only suppress the slave trade by diminishing
the profits as those 'who were engaged in it,