The Sun.
London, England, 1821-04-19 00:00:00

CATHOLICQUESTION-:

b Tile Speech of that Learned Prelate, the
'ishop of Sr. Davrn.'s,.made such an impression
" Tuesday night in the House of Lords, that
hwekleem it our duty to give it as correctly re-
"'led in The illorn.ing Posi-of this day:-
I'c The Bishop of ST. -D.avin's.-My Lords,
I am wholly unable to do justice either
tne great importance of the subject before the
lv°ltse, or to my own convictions, yet I am un-
-I.`ilitig to give the vote which I shall do this
Nyllirilt against the second reading of the Bill,
ilout endeavouring at least to state the grounds
R;41? objections to it. But, before I state those
—},°tlncli, I wish to make a single observation on
11-at fell from the Noble Earl, )vhose eloquent
Vei,ch closed the debate of last night. The
ihNe Earl observed, that the Constitution of
Is, country is 6 essentially Protestant, but not.
Cctusively so.' My Lords, the history of the
°llstitution` if I mistake not, requires both
ti ,
tls• From the Constitutions of Clarendon,
iliwards, its Protestant character was form-
It was forming by the variety of checks
th;t:ll,,lvere given to the intrusive authority of
it•-ei -rope by the laws of Edward I. and HI..
in fired H, and others. It was formed, and
1-1 great measure completed, by the laws of
ibenr3r VIII. It was finally completed by
lv.lie Statute of the 30th of Charles 11. It
completed, my Lords, by the active
from usion of the Pope and his jurisdiction
be;., the Constitution. I object to the Bill,
,n-d'ause it appears to me contrary to the very
-"itZifw which your Lordships are here assem-
r The writ of summons convened Parlia-
(?,eat
A The
to consult for the defence of tile
ii`,lirch of England ; super rebiis quibusdem ar-
Li defensionein regni Anglice Ecclesice Angli-
cerlce concer ventibus. - But the Church of Eng-
-14.t1 never can be defended by giving po-
i power to her greatest enemy, the. Church
ftlea
Rome. I object to the Bill, because it ap-
to me contrary tosthe oath which I took at
!commencement of the present Parliament.
lu Bill recognises the foreign jurisdiction,
I then swore does not exist, and ought not
2 exist within this realm. The oath expressed
Tylen rea
tal sentiments. I took it without the smallest
.l reservation whatsoever; and at the time
Was resolved to fulfil the tenor of the oath. It
erns to me, therefore, if I were to vote for the
.41)14I should falsify my oath and my declara-
!")n• I object to the Bill, because it appears to
':`,le contrary to one of the highest prerogatives of
itl,e Crown. The King is Head of the Church
England by 'common faw, as well as by sta-
_'vt4e. But, if tbis Bill were to pass into a law, it
s ould be a great encouragement to the. Papal
Power
; that power which the Roman Catho-
t:,st hold to be superior to the sovereignty
utn
the realm. Every encouragement. therefore,
Papal power, is a diminution of the autho-
' or the Crown. My Lords there are
irnt:Zv_o_,ther objections to the Bill. I object to
adl..-aase it appears to me a most pernicious
houniractiy, permit the members of a foreign
, itber
zlild subjects of a foreign Sovereign, to
House of Parliament without re-
gouncin -
6 their foreign allegiance ; and Especial-

MAJORITYAND MINORITYoN Tnu QUESTION rOnTrIE
SECOND READING or TUE CATHOLIC BILL.
• FOR THE SECOND READING OF TIIE BILL.
Sil9seX Leinster Dundas
Grafton Duncan Stewart of Carnes
Devonshire Melville - Can horpr
Lansdowne Hood l)unsutnville
Camden Gordon (Aberdeen) Wellesley
' Anglesey Granville Lilford
Thanet Clinton • . Ellenborough.
Albemarle Dac re Lauderdale
Jersey Howard of Elf. Abercrombie
Cow per Ilownrd of W, Crewe
Harrington Clifton (Darnley) A ilsa (Cassilis)
Wnrwick King Churchill
FitzWilliatri Portsonby (Beshoro.)Ilill.
De La Warr , Grantham Elgin (Scotch)
Spencer Holland _ Roseberry
Fortescue Sauridge (Argyle) Colville
Caernarvon Hawke Stair
Rosily a Foley Headfort (Irish)
Grey Ashburton Conyngham
Harrowby Grauttey Charlemont
Minto Somers teltnore
St. Gertnains Amherst Donoughmore
Morley Grenville Blesin i on
Torrington Auckland Norwich (Bishop)

Somerset
Bedford
Stafford
Bnte

Derby.
Suffolk
Essex

Carlisle
Oxford
Dartmouth
Waldegrave

Hardwicke
Darlington
Hillsbro'
Grosvenor
Mu'grave

PROXIES FOR TIIE BILL.
Hereford Carysfort
Bolingbroke Alvanley
Anson - Hutchinson
• Keith Erskine
Say and Sele Monteagle
Sondes Granard
Dude Brenda!bane
Berwick Lynetlock
Sherborne Melbourne
Bray brooke Qaeen:berry(S.cotch)
Mendip Tweedale
Ynrbro' Belhaven
Gwydir Kingston (Irish)
Cawdor lVtouut Cashel
Carrington Clancarty
Glastonbury Rochester (Bishop.)

AGAINST THE SECOND HEADING OF THE BILL.
York Lonsdale Harris
Beaufort Cathcart Lothian (Scotch)
Newcastle Vernlam . Saltoun
Northumberland Whitworth Napier
Wellington Brownlow Enniskillen (Irish)
Winchester Hampden L.ngford
Cornwallis Sydney - Alnyo
Northampton Curzon O'Neill
Pembroke Sidmouth 1 hifferin
Bridgewater - Lake Canterbury (Archb.)
Westmorland Exmouth York
Winchilsea Hay (Kinuoul) London (Bishops)
Cardigan . -Boston Winchester.
Shaftesbury U,ynevor • V Worcester
Abingdon alsingharn.. . Bangor
Plymouth Bagot - . Hereford.
Coventry Kenyon Lincoln
Macclesfield Fisherwick (Doneg.)St. David's' 1
Pomfret Selsey .:- Salisbury
Harcourt Belle V St. Asapn .
Chatham Bayning Lty -
Bathurst Bolton . Cheste'r
Ailesbury Northvrick. Gloucester
Mount Edgcumbe Eldon Osford
Digliy St. Helen's Peterborough.
Mansfield Redesdale Liandad'
T
Liverpool Arden • - xeter
... ~ •.

Romney Gambier
Chichester Beresford
Abergovenny Ross (Glasgow)

Kilmore (Irish)
4 3ogher,
' Kilialoe

PROXIES AGAINST TILE BILL
Clarence Craven Wodehowe
Richmond Nelson - Loftus (Ely)
Marlborough Orford Sheffield
_
Itut: -

land liarevrood Manners
orset • Beauchamp Cornhermere
Srdit•httry Falmouth • hleld rum (Aboyne)
Bath Dudley mid Ward 'Prudhoe
Hertford Maynard Home (Scotch)
Exeter • De Clifford • Kellie
Cholmondeley Zouche • Balearras
Huntingdon Willoughby deßrokeForhis
Dere.igh Middleton Gray
Stamford • Rivers Thomond (Irish)
Scarborough Rodney ' Carrick
Pottlett Gordon (Huntley) Farnham.
Aylesforti Montagu • Charleville
Graham Tyrone (Waterford) Carleton
Portsmouth Suffield Durham (Bishops)
Radnor Douglas of LochlevenChiehester
Norwich Stuart of Cast. Stuart Hereford
Egremont Saltersford . Carlisle
Strange Brodrick Armagh (A rehb.)
Mahnesbury - Rous .

Lord Analey's Prosy against the Dill srrived too late, or
he Majority Ruud have Oren 40.

. - .
[MORNING CHRONICLE.]
Our Readers will see from our Report, that Mr.
Lambton's motion for a. Committee of the whole
House, to consider the state of the Representation,
was lost last night by a majority cf twelve in a
House consisting of only ninety-eight Members.
It will probably occasion no small surprise, that
a question of so much importance, 'and one in
which so great and respectable a part of the
people of this country took so deep an interest,
should have excited so little interest in the House.
I t,is true there W 4.5 some little management. in
the case, for the divii,ion was brought on unex-
pectedly at an early hour in the eveningi in the
absence of Mr. Lambton, Mr. Hobhouse, and
Mr. Maxwell, and other advocates of Reform,
who had gone Up stairs for a few minute's to get
some refreshment, and who were shut out. But
allowing for this, the attendance was riot such as
the question deserved to have. We have heard,
indeed, that some dissatisfaction was felt on ac-
count of the motion having been brought forward
in the necessary absence of Lard Londonderry.
But the respect due to the people of England
ought mot to have allowed any feeling of this kind
to influence the minds of Members.

We understand that in. consequence of the
Act passed after the close Of
.the late war, for
granting Pensions to Seamen after a stipulated
term of service (without taking securities for their
appearance when r*.quired), such an- increase of
burthen has been thrown on the chest at- Chat-
ham, that the funds have been rethiced above
two millions ; and opinions have been taken by
the Officers of Greenwich hospital to ascertain
whether this fund could be.' legally ~applied to
such a purpose, it being originally, created ,ind
maintained to form
.a provision, for maimed and
wounded Seamen only. The:opinions of the ablest
lawyers are againSt such diversion of the fund.O.)
• •

['MORNING POST.]

The interest excited by the motion of
Lambton, on the subject of Parliamentary Re-
form, may be . pretty accurately collected from
the division 'of last night—the numbers being, for.
his motion 43, against it 55 !! A Vestry. or..En7
closure Bill will frequently procure a more nu?
merous attendance: ) The cause is so wretchedly
thread-bare that 'little else -was-to be expected.
Mr. Lambton wk too modest, in supposing that
the contemptuouS manner in Which it was
treated had any thing• •to do with him.—
Had greater talents been pressed into its
service—had Lord Archibald .Hamilton, or Sir
Henry Parnell, for instance, brought it I'orward,
it. mist have been dispOsed of in the same way.
The Hon. Member was therefore precipitate in
charging two Hon. Members with treating him cOn-
temptuously, because they laughed when he was
in the House.- Of this he himself must ite s.atis.
fled, as both the 'Hon. Gentlemen he had the
good sense to point out, assured the House that

they were not thinking of him. It will perhaps be
consoling to him to know that there are other ob-
jects that can provoke laughter. llis friends,
however, we have no doubt, will be able to prove
that thero was nothing ridiculobs iu his believing
hbnself to be the subject of a scornful laugh in
the House of Commons ; and, in the fullness of
our benevolence, we will even acknowledge, that
if he should conceive himself to be au objeCt of
derision elsewhere, there would be nothing very
absurd in the supposition—nothing that could
make his admirers think less highly of his in-
tellect than they do at present. •

Mr.ABERCROMBY presented a Petition from several
Merchants and other Inhabitants of Edinburgh, praying for a
Reform of the present Council of that City. , Referred to the
Coinmittce of the SCOL9 l3urghs.
air THOMAS.ACLAND presented a Petition from 'the
Freeholders of Devonshire, complaining of the distress they
suffered under the pressure of Taxes, and praying for a reduction
of expenses, ari abolition of useless offices, and such an inquiry
into the state of the representation as might restore public con-
fidence. The Hon. Baronet said he concurred in opinion with
the Petitioners upon - the propriety of reducing the public ex-
-i-enditure, but he could not promote what was called a Reform
in Parliament. _ .

Lord EBRINGTON concurred with -the Petitioners' anti
bore testimony to their great respectability. The Noble Lord
supported the Petition at some length ; referring principally to
some circumstances of a local nature.

The Petition was ordered to be printed.
Lord JOHN •
RUSSELL presented a Petition from the In-
habitants of Plymouth, praymg for a Parliamentary Reform.
They complained, that the right of voting for the Borough had
become vested from the Freeholders to tie Corporation. The
Noble Lord presented a Petition shnirat in its-prayer'frout the
Freeholders of Huntingdon.—The Petitions were ordered to be
printed.
A similar Petition was presented by Colonel JOH:KSTONE
from the Inhabitants of Euston—Ordered to be printed. • .
Mr. CORE presented a Petition to the same effect from the
FreehOlders of Suffolk. He regretted that • the independent
Member for the County
.was not present, to whom the Petition
might have been entrusted with more effect. The Honour-
able Member stated his conviction, that nethingbut n Reform
in Parliament would relieve the country from its present suf-
ferings.
Mr. COOCH, one of the Members for Suffolk, 'said, he
was as independent as the Honourable Member who presented
the Petition, though he did not possess so many acres. He
(Mr. (3.) supported the Ministers, but he was under no obli-
gation to them ; and he had never either bought or sold a vote.
He denied that the Petition contained the general sentiments of
the country.
Mr. WESTERN supported the Petition at some length,
and Mr. GOOCH' explame4.---The Petition was tudered to be
printed:
Mr. CURWEN presented a Petition for Reform. from the
.freeholders of Cumberland.

Mr. BROUGHAM supported the Petition ; and said, that
a more respectable body of men than that which attended the
Meeting at which the Petition was voted, he never saw in his
life. •

Lord I.OWTIIER said, that the large attendance was to be
accounted for - from the circumstance of there being a large fair
on the day upon which the Meeting was held.
After 'a'conversation between Lord Milton, Mr. Wallace,
arid Mr. Brougham, the Petition was ordered to be printed.
Sir.R. WILSON presented a similar Petition. from the Bo-
rough of Southwark.
Mr. BANKES presented a Petition from the Trustees of the
British Museum praying for further means for carrying en the
p.irposes of the I.stabliOnnent..