The Sun.
London, England, 1828-02-22 00:00:00

LISBON PAPERS.

LISBON, FEE. 10.-The Gazettes of the 7th, Bth, and
9th February are chiefly filled with the very long debates
of the Chambers.
CHAMBER OF PEERS.
The Apostolic Nuncio having presented a note to the
Secretary for Foreign Affairs relative to the proceedings in
the Chamber against the Archbishop of Elves, this note
was referred to the Committee for Ecclesiastical Affairs,
which made its report in this sitting. The Committee was
of opinion that the request of the Nuncio, that the accused
might be tried according to the forms of the canon law,
could not be complied with ; because though that law and
the articles of the Council of Trent had been recognized by
the Kings of Portugal, the 41st article of the Charter ex-
pressly says, that the Chamber of Peers has the exclusive
right of judging of the crimes of its members, and makes no
distinction between ecclesiastical and lay Peers. The Coin-
niittee,:therefore, thinks that the Chamber has a right to
try him as a Peer, but on account of his ecclesimtical dig-
nity, recommends that he shall not be obliged to appear in
person, but allowed to employ au agent with full powers.
After a long debate, the report was proved, with the
exception of the recommendation, which was rejected.
SITTING OF FEB. '7.

In this Sitting the affair of the four accused Peers being
brought forward, a difference arose on a point of form. It
was resolved, that the accused are to appear on Saturday,
when the proceedings should be continued.
In the Chamber of Deputies, on the Bth of February, the
debate on the point of law for the reform of certain judicial
proceedings was continufs.l.—Lts!)on Gazette to Feb. 10.

A short time ago, as one of the coaches be-
tween thi4 town and London was proceeding on its way,
during a very dark night, along where the road is carried
over a boggy piece of ground, the driver and the outside
passengers saw a light before them, which Coachee declared
to be the lamp of a carriage about to meet them; at the
same time manifesting not a little chagrin that his brother
whip did not better know his own side of the road ; he
himself, however, pulled to the right, until the soil began
to sink, and the vehicle came in contact with a sturdy post,
which suggested at once to Phaeton and his colleagues on
the roof, that instead of standing off for " Gualay's
steam-carriage," or even a " Gas coach," they were pur-
suing, four-in-hand, a more ancient gas and steam-opera-
tor; to wit, that renowned misleader, Jack o'Lantern
who, having stepped from his dormitory in the adjacent
quagmire, politely went dancing before them with his
link, to the great entertainment of the paslengers--Shef-
field Iris.

The House met at Four o'Clock.
The Duke of SOMERSET presented two pe•
titions, one from Thornton, and the other from Ful-
wood, in the county of Somerset, praying for the
repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts.
The House then adjourned at pleasure, and met
again at a quarter before five o'clock,
Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented a petition
from the town of Sheffield, in the county of York,
from the Protestant Dissenters, praying for a repeal
of the Test and Corporation Acts.
The Marquis of CLEVELAND presented
petitions from the Protestant Dissenters of
Stranbroke, of TretTony, in the county of
Durham, and of the Town and Port of
South Shields, against the Test and Corporation
Acts. In presenting these petitions to the House,
he begged to be understood as not pledging himself
to any vote or opinion when the subject should come
on to be discussed.
Lord CARRINGTON presented petitions to the
same effect from Lowestoffe, in the county of
Suffolk, the county and city of Bristol, Kingsland,
Farnham, county of Surrey, East Retford, in the
county of Nottingham, Coventry, Staleybridge, a
town in Lancashire, Abergavin, county of Gla-
morgan, Trowbridge, in the county of Wilts, Guil-
ford, in the county of Surrey, Rye, in the county
of Sussex, and another town in the county of Wilts.
The Earl of ESSEX presented similar petitions
from Whitchnrch, in the county of Salop ; Andover,
Hants ; St. Alban's, Herts; Kingswood, Wilts ;
and from Congregations meeting at Ashton, Wood-
street Chapel, Barnet, and certain places in the
counties of Pembroke and Glamorgan.
The Duke of BEDFORD presented petitions to
the same effect from Biggleswade, Shefford, Stock-
port, and some places in the county of Bedford ;
from Somerton and St. Ives, in the county of Hun-
tingdon ; and front the Congregation of Brook-street
Chapel, in the county of Devon.
The Earl of CARLISLE presented a similar
petition from the Dissenters of Wellington, in the
county of Somerset ; Alton, Hams; Boronghbridge,
York ; and from the Congregation of Little Wild-
street Chapel, Lincoln's Inn-fields.—Laid on the
table.

Lord KING said, that he had two sets of peti-
tions to present : those on his right hand were from
Protestant Dissenters, those on his left from Catho-

lies. The charge against the first was, that they
were too ready in the exercise of their private judg-
ments ; whilst the others were said to be toe ready
in giving over their private judgments. The
established church was 'now in the happy and en-
viable condition of having irreconcileable enemies,
even more irreconcileable than certain parties else-
where—(a laugh),—of those two classes of persons
who were themselves so hostilely opposed to each
other. it was the glory of the First Consul
of France that he gave equal liberty to all
Let it be then the glory of our First Consul (who
was to be Firt Consul for life) to rival that great
man in that important particular also. (A laugh.)
The Noble Lord then presented tEe Catholic peti-
tions, as coming from the Elder brothers. The
petitions were from parishes in the county
of Tipperary. The Noble Lord then presented the
petitions, praying for the repeal of the Test and
Corporation Acts, from Castle-street, Exeter ;
Wellington, Somersetshire; How-street. Chapel,
Plymouth ; Newport-Bagnel, Berks; Hamersham,
Sherrington, Northamptonshire, Mortimer-West,
Bridport, Grosvenor Chapel, Manchester, and a
place in Lancashire.

Eat'. PITZWILLIANT presented similar petitions
from the Congregation of Salem Chapel, Wakefield;
and from Congregations in Bradford and Kingston-
upon-Hull.

Earl SPENCER presented petitions to the same
effect from the Dissenters of Wellingborough, in the
county of Northampton ; Market Harborough, Lei-
cestershire; Wollaston and East Dereham, Northamp-
ton ; King's Lynn, in the county of Norfolk ; and
Harting, in the county of Suffolk.—Laid on the table.
Earl GREY had several petitions of a simi-
lar nature to present; and their prayer being
founded on the strictest principles of political
justice, he thought it ought to be granted. The
Noble Earl then presented petitions from the
' Dissenters of North Shields; from a certain
Chapel at Newcastle-upon-Tyne ; from Horsely, in
Northumberland ; from two Congregations near
Portsea, Hants; the island of Portland; Weymouth
Dorset; Chester-street Chapel, Wrexham ; Ja-
maica-row Chapel, Bermondsey ; Chalford, Glou-
cester; Eagle-street, Chapel, Red Lion-square; New
Cross Chapel, parish of St. Paul, Deptford ; Great
Yarmouth, Norfolk : Clarence-street Chapel, Portsea;
Tenton, near Gosport ; Fulham, Middlesex ; and
from a certain place in the county of Somerset.
Earl MORLEY presented two similar petitions
from Dissenters in Plymouth and its vicinity.
Lord DURHAM presented a similar petition
from the congregation of Zion Chapel, Newcastle-
upon-Tyne ; and Lord Yarborough, from the Dis-
senters of Spalding, in the county of Lincoln.
Lord CLIFDEN presented petitions from pa-
rishes in Ireland against the Penal Code, the
Vestry Act, and the Sub-letting Act.. With re-
spect to this last Act, the Noble Lord was cer-
tainly of opinion that it required amendment,
and he was glad to learn that it was now tinder the
consideration of the Gentleman who held the office
of Chief Secretary for Ireland, assisted by some of
the ablest Members for that part of the United
Kingdom. They were engaged in its amend-
ment, but were not considering the propriety
of its total repeala step which the Noble
Lord thought would be very unwise. He could not
consent to its complete repeal, although he was con-
vinced that in many of its points it was defective.
The Noble Lord would now take the opportunity of
answering a Noble Marquis opposite (Londonderry)
who asked, a few evenings back, why a guess
tion had been put to the Noble Duke at the
head of his Majesty's Government, respecting
any measures for the relief of the Roman
Catholics. He (Lord Clifden) had asked that ques-
tion, because there was a wide spread report
abroad that the Noble Duke intended to
bring in a Bill, granting all that the Cash,
lies petitioned for except the power of sitting
in Parliament. To say the truth, the Noble Lord
did not think that there was any truth in the report,
but he was determined that the matter should not
be any longer kept hugger-muggered, and therefore
he put a direct question to the Noble Duke.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did not
question the right of the Noble Lord, or of any
other Peer, to make such inquiries as he pleased ; he
was, however, glad at the explanation now given, as
lie had been impressed with the idea that certain No-
ble Lords who sat at this side of the House were
anxious to force on Ministers a question which they
themselves, when in office, found it impossible
to bring forward.
Lord CLIFDEN reminded the Noble Mar-
quis that the Catholic Question had, in fact, been
decided by the House of Commons during the
last session of Parliament, and that the Noble Lords
to whom allusion had been made, Were too green in
their offices to urge it on a second time in
the same session. He also reminded the,

Their Lordships adjourned at Half-?a,t Five
o'Clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FFuRVA t 1.

A person from the Treasury premque,l -.rune
Papers at the bar of the House.

Mr. Mayhew presented some Papers relative to
the Imperial Gas Company.
Mr. C. PALLIER brought up the Report of
the Committee on the Surrey and Sussex Roads
Bill, and leave was given to bring up the same.
Mr. RAMSDEN presented a petition in favour
of the Ayr and Calder Navigation Bill.
Colonel BAILEY presented a petition in favour
of the Ferrybridge Canal Bill.
Mr. F. WILSON presented a petition against the
Stockton Railway Bill.
Mr. HOBHOUSE moved for an Account of the
Watching and Paving of the parish of St. James,
Westminster, and also of the Church Rates, together
with the application of the same during the last ter,
years.—Agreed to.
Mr. HUTCHINSON presented seven petitions
from parishes in the city and county of Cork, nu-
merously signed by the Catholic inhabitants, pray-
ing for the removal of the disabilities under which
they laboured in consequence of their religion.
Lord ALTHORP gave notice of a motion for
Thursday, the 6th of March, relative to the regu-
lating the method of taking Polls at elections.
Mr. JAMES BROUGHAM presented a peti-
tion from certain freeholders of Durham, against the•
return of Sir H. Hardinge.---Ordered to be taken
into consideration'on the 11th of March.
- CORPORATION AND TEST ACTS.

Mr. R. SMITH presented twenty-seven peti-
tions from the Protestant Dissenters of Stoney
Stratford, Oldby, High Wycomb, Fenny Stratford,
Abingdon, Weston Underwood, and other places,
praying for a repeal of the Test Acts.
Sir J. ROBINSON presented similar petitions
from the Dissenters of Northampton, Castle•hill
Chapel, King's Head-lane Chapel, and the Baptists
of Northampton.

Sir W. fIEATHCOTE presented two petitions
from the Dissenting Congregation of Abbey Chapel,
in Romsey, and from another place in Southampton,
for the same purpose.
Mr. PENDARYES presented two petition, from
the Dissenters of Grampound and 'hum.
Lord. ALTHORP presented a imilar petition
from the Dissenters of Wilford.

Colonel CHAPLIN presented a similar petitions
from the Dissenters of Gainsborough.
Mr. DICKENSON presented similar petition,
from the Dissenters of Glastonbury and Wellington
Sir J. WROTTESLEY presented a similar pe-
tition from the Dissenters of Burton-on-Trem,
Sir EDWARD OWEN presented a petition from
the Dissenters of Deal

Mr. KNIGHT presented a similar petition from
the Dissenterzi of Wallingford.
Mr. MARSHALL presented a number of simi-
lar petitions from the Dissenters of Holyhead, Pem-
broke, Denbigh, Trowbridge, Haslingden, in Lan-
caster, and other places.
Sir G. HEATHCOTE presented a similar peti,
tion from the Dissenters of Uppingham, in Rutland

MALT ACT.
Mr. BLACKBURN presented a petition iron,
the Maltsters of Wallingford, praying for a repeal of
the Malt Act.

Sir J. WROTTESLEY presented a similar pe-
tition from the Molesters of the town of Dudley.
Mr. F. WEST presented a similar petition from
the Maltsters of Denbigh.
Mr. KENNEDY gave notice of a motion rela-
tive to the law of Entail in Scotland, for Tuesda
the 4th of March.

Mr. SHIRLEY presented a petition from au-
Catholics of Mayross, in Monaghan, praying for
Emancipation.
Mr. MARSHALL moved for certain returns re
lativt' to the Stamp duties on Bills of Exchange,
from the .sth of Jan. 1826, to the .sth of Jun. 1827.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a petitior
from a parish in the county of Londonderry, i►
favour of Catholic Emancipation. Ordered to h 4.
printed.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a petition
from the Roman Catholics of Four Mile-water,
against the Vestry Act. The Hon. Bart. said
few words in support of the prayer of the petition.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT also presented a peti
tion against the Sub-lettting Act.
Sir JOHN OWEN presented petitions froa
Fishguard and different other places in the count
of Pembroke, praying for the repeal of the Test an,!
Corporation Acts.

Mr. LEGIT KECK 'presented a similar petitio
from Market Harborough.

THE MALT ACT.
Mr. PORTMAN said, that seeing a Right Hop.
Gentleman in his place, who, he believed, had a
considerable share in framing the Malt Act, on the.,
subject of which so many petitions were lately pre-
sented to the House, he took this opportunity
inquiring whether his Majesty's Ministers had an,
intention of making any modification of the existing
law to meet the wishes of the very respectable clan,
of persons who were so deeply interested in the re-
gulations contained in the Act.
Mr. HERRIES said he would have been much
better satisfied if his Right Hon. Friend, tlic
Chancellor of the Exchequer, had been in the House.
when the Hon. Member put the question ; how-
ever, his intercourse with his Right Hon. Friend on
this subject enabled him to say what was likely to
be done. He believed his Right Hon. Friend
was determined to have full communication on
the subject with those who were most deeply inte-
rested in the proposed alterations. Of course his Mrr.
jesty's Ministers had no other view nor'obkot but tin
protection of therevenue.Befo‘te the Act was passed
into a law, he (Mr. Herries) had frequent commu-
nications
sabiall'ielntvnyelirtiddallitit;otseniaidi'el' teesididnsmfittilit:eaeopdi necessary;
ilm.tstlessrit huh. sa:tenviii:;:lthhooeNeb::jeorae;etlll' yi:'tonsitihntwap:e'tyailsterh'ht\s'lsen'eed:yoir efm%taNid'fa'el
t
had made their objections before the Act wt!'
passed into a law. The Government and the fall
trader had a common object--(Hear, hear.) And
it was thu; he considert.d that the former could
do nothing more wise than in altering any Provision
necessary,
which tended to injure the interests of the latter
troubleuo the Hoare with
Gnt. oif
continued
In conclusion, lie begged to say, that he knee,.
his Right Hon. Friend was resolved to enter f-411y
into a consideration of the subject, with those wh(,
were most interested, and determined to make what-
e\
s'eerlre
aalteration
n..e might be
shall
nn
Right
my
fo
nd
few observations upon another subject. lam aware that i
have no right to the indulgence which 1 am now solicit-
ing, but I am aware that in ail cases where the person,,,
feelings of any Hon. Member are considered, the House
in the habit cf showmg great ir:dalgence,(Hear,

•
oe, , , • —On one part of nay speech thel other' night great streas
was laid, and something was apread abroad which was ma-
terially at variance with what I said, and it was therefore
supposed that in my statement there was something in-
correct ; and upon that statement a question was put
to me in the House by an Honourable Member, the
drift of which I did not untlettand, and thinking that
I had spoken explicitly on the point upon which the doubt
arose, I did not offer any explanation to the House, and i
trust that the House will not construe my silence into dis-
respect towards them, or the Hon. Member who asked
the question. On that occasion, I stated that 1 heard with,
great surprise, and then for the first time, that the
intended resignation of my Right Honourable Friend, the
Secretary foe the Calonies, was made known to my Noble
Friend, late at the head of the Administration, on the 29th,
of December. What I stated, I find correctly given in those
very able and ingenious records of what passes in this
House ; I find there that my observation is cone
fined to my not having known until that night
that the resignation of my Right Honourable Friend
was tendered on the - 29th. of December, and not to nay
having stated that I was not at all aware of the resignation
until that night. I could not have stated that I did not know
until that night of the intended resignation of my Right Hon.
Friend, because in my last letter upon the subject I ad-
verted strongly to the intention of my Right Hon. Friend
to retire, if the course pointed out by him were not
persevered in. My observations that night were to this effect,
that although it was most important to me to have known
as early as possible of the intended resignation of my Right
Hon. Friend, that I did not hear of it on the 29th of Lee-
A-wd•hrnelitnisltihaatidona.notilifeti:
willpnetariotmodeetbnirblka:de:leni)reloh':,ot::' 11te'r
anyf
li)o
been t,h earlier tthphleseiros_fld:i el
motet ers January,ot. th
intendediv,ttehhraaentnocte knowledge
inno
‘av
nr
\gsarinti
rattetil resignation, r
emitiliye souse.atpart,fia..l
would be the effect of my perseverance in the measure.
would have had a •material effect on my conduct.
I said on that night that I had not learned.
his resignation until tile 4th of Jan., at night, and I find
that almost the words which I now use were stated in two
Morning Papers ( The Times and Horning Chronicle) of
To what I stated on that subject I have nothing to add
which is a strong corroboration of what I now say,
i
where, and I have heard them with pain and regret, became
un-eolrtthdamyntioning, but I have heard declarations male else •
from those declarations it is clear that it might be sup-
posed that I, in what 1 have said, intended to convey a de-
nial of the truth of statements made by other friends of
mine in another place. I can assure the House that
when any man, however high or humble his 'station, speake
of his owu motives, I WTI most ready to believe that
what he says is true, because he must be the beat judge of
his own motives ; but that nothing can alter the convie. -
(ion in my own mind, that the trifling circumstance ot
the difference between my Right Hon, Friend and myeett,
to settle which, in the most amicable manner, I was moat
willing to do, even at the expense of sacrificing nay interest:
—I say I never can believe--.l never will believe, that'that
trifling difference—that that difficidty which might be cis:it-
surmounted, Was the subject, was the operative cause, Which
produced the dissolution of the late Administration.--(Loud
cheere.)—l maintain that that could not by the cause
of it ; that there were other causes which bad more weight,
and no person can ever convince me that tornethine
which had passed previous to my letter, was not the Call?n of
that dissolution, and that those more important calms then
in operation, and which were not mentioned while tbe-
more trifling one to which he had alluded wet put forth,
would have produced the dieeointion.—(Cheers.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE said it must be Gbvious to the -
House, that his intrusion upon their time was produced
by the !Tont:arable Gentleman who had inet eat down.
He had never heard a speech which surprited hint
mere. His impression, and that of several Honourable
Jilembers near him, was that the Right Honourable •
Gentleman had said on the night alluded to, that he had
then, for the first time, heard of the resignation or the in-
tended resignation of the Secretary for,the Colonist. He we;
ttihereieattnibor::..anfs, astonished nid:aostwh.
down
de
1.11,o:hi
tdehneu
pHhoeonuthshee:iatradonedtchage,
give
O%R.
nei t
efflie( orait.c poGen-tn.
should next expect to hear the Right Hon. Gent, say, that
non. Members misunderstood him, when they suppose&
that he had said, " I know it," in alluding to the cireurn-
stances which produced the diatolutior, of the late Cabinet.
With regard to the whole statement, he D,) carne
to the conclusion now which he had came to on the caltet
night, that if the object of the Right hionourabie Gen-
tleman was to mistily this transaction, he had proceeded.
most triumphantly, but if hit object vette to explain, ha,
failure was most complete.—(Cheers. )
Mr. HERRIES—I am afraid that I< am guilty cf tome
irregularity in intruding myself again apon the notice
of the House; but as the Honourable Member ap-
pears to have misunderstood use, I bee
now to taste
that what I did say, was, that I did not hear of the
resignation of my Right Honourable Friend on the 29th
of December, nor until the sth of January, and that
is precisely what 1 am reported to have said in two
Morning Papers, which I am not at liberte to read in this
House, but which the Hon, Member, if he doubt the
accuracy of my statement, aught to take the trouble to
read.—(Cheers.)
Lord MILTON—My reeollection of what passed upon
that occasion is not sufficiently accurate to enable me to
dispute the explanation which the Hon. Gent. has now
given. I take it for granted that he has now stated correctly
what he said upon that occasion—( Hear, bear.)—
But, Sir, what has fallen from the Right Honourable
Gentleman this evening, as well as an a former night,
appears to me to be pregnant with important considera-
tions. The Right Honourable Gentleman the other night
said that there was a design—a settled, determined
intention, to break up the Administration ; and that
his threatened resignation tea. ,;nay a pretence,
and the Right Honourable Gentleman, speaking upon
the subject, added with empliasie—" I 'know it." If
the Right Honourable Gentleman were \ cognizant of
that fact, if he were aware of the design ; it appears to
me that all other explanations are as dust in the
balance-- (Bear, heat, hear,)—are net worthy of
consideration fora ;lament in this House, however they
may be the objects of dispute between him and
others—are not worthy of consideration before =is
as the representatives of the people of England, and
are as dust in the balance compared with the knowledge
which he asserted lie has.—(Loud cheers.)—lf the Right
Hon. Gentleman knows that such a design existed, he
must know by whom it was conceived—he must know the
ageiats—he mast know its object—be must know
the means taken to carry this object into effect, and he must
know, Sir, a great deal, which, after all that hat passed,
it is incumbent upon him, ne a public man, to explain to
the House and to the conntry.—(Lond cheers.)
Mr. BROUGHAM—I take it for granted that when a
question is put to an lion. Gentleman in this place he is
bound to give an answer to it; and when a Right Hon.
Gentleman volunteers with asseverations an answer not to
man,
aln e sat inodn
apc,u in
hope that att House,
saver.,
ell to
a solemnsr
,lt statements ittroant:ttrst
which
et, made
in in another place, he can have no difficulty in giving au
ost
e
answer to a question Which naturally arises out of those
asseverations. If the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had
not volunteered a denial of these charges
character, I would have no right to ask bins for a denial upon
; f rather than to
matters certainly more persoual to himself
this House, but as Le has thought lit to come forward, and
against his
in an apparently manly manner, answer
was never put to. him in this House, and
.dtetend himself
against charges, as to whom he consultett wi h. upon certain
occasions, I now wish to know whether I rightly under-
stood him, when he said, iu the
manner which for solemnity seat
inever araceeded in ttae,
in the contatt of the discussions, and
House—" I solemnly, "Pea- my ,`""r as a C-ente:-.
no fotinciation whatever for theurge or insinua-•
tchoem'Cmaubninkesittiona elsewhere, or in a high tiaa, be it here or elsewhere, that, I had gone fortis
quarter, of
tmmaulde
what passed in that Cabinet," I wish, for the sakeof accuracy
to ask the Bight Non. Gentleman if he means to include ire
his denial that I never consulted with any person," ttist
noer.ten out of the C
P abinet ever consulted with It'
m
in the course of the negotiations, and. that ha never
communicated toanyperson cut of that Gab' net what
bee past; is it during those negoo;ation..—(l,oud cheero
lERIES---1 doubt the right of Honourable
centlen.ian put that last question to me; ulat I mean
to say is this, that what. I declareei upon my honour,:
mean to stand and abide by. Other explanation, I will
not enter into.—(Cheere.)—l elutll not enter into any other
explanations relating to the dissolution of the last. Covez:3_
ment.

Mr. BROUCMAIII--t: wish it to be understood I bad
no wish unnecessarily to put the iuestiou, which I think
1)14; in the way best calculated to disarm irritationA
and the House will recollect that I did not put the siles-
tion as one to which, as a matter of right, I ought to have
an answer, and that I said I merely yea it as one growing
out of a denial of charges made against the Right Hon.
Gentleman, certainly not in this House; hut after the
observations which !Lye Just fallen from the Right Hon,
Gentleman, I must say if he intended to abide by that silence,
that it would have been infinitely better for him if he bad.
abstained from giving any explanation at ail upon the sub-
ject.--(Loud cheers.)
Mr, WM. WYNN knew not upon what grouncis
GomrimeAt had been dissolved, and u;til something tu2l-,..,

could be stated to him he felt . bound with.all deference too
ithe Right; Honourable•.Gentlernan opposite, who bad made
the statement he had,. -not • to give credit to it.—(Great
;cheering.)—With all the respect that was due to what
was stated by Gentlemen in Office, at the head of the Go-
vernment, he confessed if there were anv grounds for the
assertion that had bean made, such grounds were unknown
to hint and to his colleague., with most-of whom he had
conversed. --(Hear, hear, hear.)
Mr: STURGES BOURNE entirely agreed with his No-
ble Friend who,had spoken.- He could not give credit to the
statement`that had been made on a former night in that
House; end it was with utter, astonishment he had heard
such a ;tatement made, particularly as it was coupled
with a sort of sarcasm and inntempt, in referenee to the
Noble Lord-Win) had. been at the head of the Government.
(Hear. allusion also to the statement of the squabble
that had taken place in the Cabinet when the Right Hon.
Geut/tinan-left it, he (Mr. S. Ti.) was in it, and lie could
say, that in' -the * Cabinet itself there• were neither
struggles nor squabbles; 'Whatever took place of that sort
was- solely between the Right Hon. Gentleman and his
Colleague ---(Hear, bear.)—Fle was in the country at the
time, and knew nothing of what passed, but us it was Con-
veyed to him by the public
,papers.
Sir JOSEPH YORKE—Haiing heard the explanation
given to night, and having read the statements made on
the former occasion,' not having been present then; he had
come to the conclusioo thit the Gentleinen'who were in
office during the last Administration must have been
a set of the greatest children he had ever known.=--(Great,
cheering and continued langhter. )—lf the manner in which
those Gentlemen conducted themselves was to be the way
in . which Gentlemen -at the head of a Government
were to act, the Hon. Member for Aberdeen had much
better set aside the expellee of a Government altogether.—
(Heaoo)—s to meeting in Cabinet, that was perfectly
unnecessary. He would ask those Gentlemen themselves
whether they had ever, heard of a Cabinet having been
broken up, without the great body of . the Members
knowing the grounds on which the dissolution took
iilace? Was it to be credited that 'a few of them
should break up the Administration,, that the head of the
Government should go to the King, and that he should
my to the Duke of Wellitigton—"-These chaps have done
their own work—go yotr, and form another Government."
sir Joseph was extremely sorry to hear such a lame ex-
planation from his Right Hon. Friend ; he thought he
would have come down better charged ; he never heard
a more round-about story in his life. It did appeaf
to him that the Government had been broken up for no
earthly purpose whatever, but because of a little jealous
feeling between the Right Honourable Gentleman and
his colleague, and •if that were so,' really the sooner the
Duke of Wellington turned him outof oft/ cethe better.
Sir J. APDON.ALD had heard with astonishment the
Right Hon. Gent's. adhesion to charges made against some
person or persons unknown. Looking at the nature of those
harges, he would ask whether it was decent to the House—
,lecent to the public, that such charges should be
preferred and not substantiated. 'He called the Howe to
iool'ff at the quarter to which such chargeS could apply.
.k's far as he had been able to understand the Right Hon.
Gent's statement, he felt disposed to acquit the Noble Lord
and therefore it insist be considered, that for the shabby
pretext, and as a stalking-horse to the overthrowing of the
:.ast Government, be -had resorted to the course he
had. The Right lion. Member, however; 'on behalf of
ohose Gentlemen to whom the charges might be supposed
apply, took the liberty of throwing back in the teeth of
the Right Hon. Gentleman such accusations ; and he
Would tell him, that if he expected to receive the support
of the public either as Chancellor of the Exchequer, or in
any other inferior office; that so far from shrinking from
explanation, he must come boldly forward to substantiate
:the charges he had made of the deepest die.
Mr. HERRIES would say a few words, but not with the
-Jim certainly of altering the_ determination be had ex-
prsed of not entering into any disclosure of matters.
—(Lost in laughter and confusion).--When he rose
on a former occasion, it was not uncalled for or
gratuitous, as an Honourable Gentleman had chosen. to
characterize it ; and how such an assertion could have been
wade, was to him matter of the greatest astonishment. He
-,..743 called upon by the Noble Lord opposite, and how
could his coming forward be gratuitous? After the call
rhat had been made on him, he came forward in rind iett-
Lion, and could not have done otherwise without leaving on
itcharacter.an imputation it did not &terve. On that
occasion be was called upon to explain transactions in
hie h he, had himself borne a part, and in which lie had
been wisrepresented in the part he had borne ; and' be 'felt
r.:ertain that in the explanation given respecting the steps
~hat had been taken between blank and his colleague, be-
iween the 2d or thl of Decetnber last, and the Ist of the
same month, that be had satisfied, and removed every
...-apressien from the mind:pc •every fair and Honourable
_Member, 'that any thiOg' had 'existed on his part but
that which was tO be ransi;''ered fair • otnd- proper.
(Louth cries 0f.." NO,l no, no.")—He hail asserted,
4.4nd he would assert again-and again, that it was not right
' state that his resignation from. office caused a diosolution
of the late Government. He made this atatentent, and be who'd
'continue to assert the fact, becaUse he was 'as certain of the
truth of it as any M3ll could possibly he:certain of any rho-
elision drawn from the most palpable grotindo.—.(eries of
No,-nii:) He insisted' that he knew it tobe iinpossible that
sash a circumstance could Lave been unaccompanied bV
other and infinitely mere iniportant. rainiest, the reason of
that Government being dissolved. The Hon; Gentleman
opposite had said lie did not give credit to his (Mr. Her 7
oiea's) former statement, by which lie understood- him to
-node that he was not aware of any other cause that' could
ive, or was likely to have, produced the dissolution,
n. saver to which he could only say, that lie did not
be-
tieve that any man in this kingdom who had paid atten-
tion to the public events that . were poising, could have
as well as himoelf, though perhaps he knetv a little
more than some of them, respecting • saute of the
aubjects. (Great laughter.)--The House came re the
same conclusion, that it was impossible hut that the
other causes-which were-in operation must have produced
a moat .material effect on-the diecolution of the Govern-
.-:rent nay, more than, this, those who undettook to give
an account of the dissolution, and who mentioned his re-
signation as the immediate cause' of it, connected,
,00wever, with other circumstances, were bound to' have
oiven all- the ceases. They ought to have described (K,-
.itiotly what those other circumstances were. ,They ought
to het-given a fair and full description of all the operative
causes,* He would ask the Member opposite, whether lie ,
himself did not, know of other (woes thgt had a powerful'
operation in the dissolution ?
Mr. W. WYNN declared, as the question itt4 hen put
so him, that he knew of no other cause on earth. fio far
from it, he verily believed there was none, and that the
oolaism between the Right Honourable Gentleman and the
Secretary of State for the Colonies, was the sole and imme-
diate cause of it. He could on no account whatever have/
supposed, that after what the Right lion. Great. had stated
on the 1 9th he meditated sending in his resignation on
the 21st. The conduct of the Right Hon. Gentler,-.w
within a few days of his resignation had unquestionably
aemioest him, and lie had no doubt deceived others..
Lord NORMANBY'said thathewoold not then stop to
inquire how far the Right lion. Gentleman natg;;J• deem
;t consistent with his— oharaeter as a Minister of the
Crown to throw out insinuations ;against some of ti:e
Member; of . the preceding Government, and refuse to sub-
stalatiate them when called upon. (Cheers.).lle woold leave
him to the benefit of that opinion of his conduct which he
Yalta have . gathered, from all - sides of the, H0n5e.......
(Land eleering.)—To- him, (Lord NaToaziltii it ap-
A:eared as if the Right Hon. Gentleman was as incapable
of understanding the questions put to him, as he appeared
to be incapable of giving an mower which could be under-
stood by any body else. The question which was put to
the Right lion. Gentleman was not that to which he
had volunteered an answer. He had never been charged
-,7ith that to which he had thought pro r to give a reply.
The question asked was this—How far the Right Hon. Cien-
pe
olenaort was prepared to concur with the statement rnade by the
Noble Lord, that lie had on three several 'occasiorv4 varied
the ground of his objection to the appointment of the
Nohk' Lord sa Chairman of the Committee, and
also teat he had allowed the Noble Lord to re-
main for three weeks tinder the impression that he was
perfectly satisfied---aud if so, how he came to persist in the
tenor of his original letter, of breaking up, the Adminis-

tration ? . •
labouring under
Mr. BERRIES ateil rose: apparently
'
feelings very considerabli excited: but from the noise in
'
the House we could not hear the first sentence. With
respect to the delay, he had, he said, already explained that
most fully and most satisfactorily. With respect to
the charge of shifting his ground of objection, Ile would
:ay that he had kright to assume:that the eng,gement
was made and he accordingly assumed, the fact in bi,, letter,
in order that if he was not correct in his assumption I:e might
be set right ; and he also assured the House that 7 hat en-
gagement was founded upon party considerations. In both
these assumptions he believe himself to be cot ~rt, for
if the engagement were not founded 01, party
purposes, or if , they were not . comp!, ‘,., he
would have received a denial to his asSumptiou, whiCh
he had not._(Hear, hear, hear. )—To the questioL, `.` is
it a bargain ?" he received for answer, " No." " Is it
an understanding?"---" Yes." -" Is it open to disc '‘.ion?"
.—" No.,"—(Cheers.)—Upon these- answers 1:., bad a
lien to assume the facts to be :as he ha,i itated

them.—(Near, hear.)—He called upon Hon. Gentlemen
to look at the colour which had been given. to that letter.
It was said that it was his intention to destroy the Go-
vernment-•-that he was deterniined to do it—let them look
to the letter. Was it not a letter offering to withdraw
himself from the 'Ministry, in order that they might he
enabled to go on with more facility ?—(Hear, hear.)—
If they could do better' without kim, he was enabling
them to do so by the offer of his resignation to
the Noble Lordfo use as lie thought proper, still
having' reference to his first letter. Was that letter,
he would ask, written in a spirit calculated to injure
or destroy the Government.? The Utmost that e,uld
be said of it was; that he (Mr. Werries); wished to
retire;,' and was it' a crime of such magnitude, to wi,h to
give up the honours and emoluments of office, as to draw
down 'tiro him the censure of determining to hi.eak,
np the Government ? In the letter he had written,
he had stated his assumptions in the broadest man-
ner a man Might to' (10 who wished to 'deal fairly.
Such were his impressions; and upon these grounds
it was that he proposed to leaVe the Cabinet. He had
stated those matters broadly, in order that if he was wrong
he Might he set right at once, and come to a right under-
standing witlrhiS Right Hon. Friends. 'Rut it there was
no answer, lie had a right to conclude that his surmises
were correct: He had been asked,. if it was his in..
tention to 'write that letter upon the return of the
Noble Lord ; to which he would reply, that he had
no right to assume that his right would not be con-
ceded 'to him, and that on the Noble Lord's return,
every thing would be set right -and go nn. It had never
been a subject of discussiori amongst his colleagues, nor did
he think that it hid at all tended towards the dissolution
of the Cabinet. On the 19th of December, he had no
reason to broach the subject, and if he had done so, it
would be an indication that he did consider that letter as a
means calculated to upset the Government. He hoped he
'had satisfied the Right Hon. Gent. that he had no reason
for mentioning the subject upon that occasion, and he
repeated, that to this moment he felt convinced that the
letter had had no tendency to break up the Government.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that he thought It would be
advisable for the House to pass to some other subject, and
let the discussion drop there for the present, as- it appeared
the Right Hon. Gent. was resolved to give no inforniation
to, the House._(The Hon. and Learned Gentleman added
another observation, which, from the. noise in the House,
we could not hear.) _

Lord NORMANRY also thought it was.better to let the
discussion cease.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said' he .knew the absence of
his Right Hon. Friend (Mr.. Tierney) was occasioned by
indisposition, but for which his Right lion. Friend world
be present to repel calumny and misrepresentation. Under
the circumstances of hiS absence, he (Sir J. Newport) did
not feel himself justified in entering into further discussion.
The petition was then brought up.

Mr. i'ORTMAN said, that as the Chancellor of the
Exehequer was now in bis place, he would again recur to
the subject which had given an opportunity for so much
discussion ; which in no way related to it. He begged to
ask the Right Hon. Centleman, whether'he was determin-
ed to do any thing to satisfy the complaints of the malt.
sters.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he had this day a communication with a deputation from
,the most eminent Alahaters, and in 'accordance with their
wishes had fixed a day early after Easter for entering into
a full consideration of the subject.
The Petition *front- the Maltsters of Dorset was then
read, and laid on the table.
TEST AND CORPORATION ACTS. •

. „
Petitions from Protestant Dissenters, praying for the re-
peal of the Test and Corporation Acts, were presented by
Lord EBRINGTON; front some • plaee4 in Devonshire;-by
Mr. WEBBi• from Gloucester ;—by Mr. DENISON, frial
Tooting, Epsom, Godalming, -Kingston-on-Thames, E lap-
ham, and Balham-hill ;—by Mr. WARBURTON, from Tow-
cester, Warrington, Farriogdon,. and several other places,
(in. all 20 petitions);—by Mr.. FAZAKERLEY, . from
.I.in-
coin ;—by Mr. DuticoarnE,. from Hertford ;—by
LESTER, from Shaftesbury Tnoirsoti, from
Dover ;—and by Mr. 11. GonnoN,- from two parishes, the
names of which we could not hear.—They were ordered
to lie on the table. -