The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-07 00:00:00

fUE SUN, LONDON, SATURDA i EVENING, JUNE 7 IMS.

Cross-examined by Mr. CALVERT—The market of Shipdam sells
about 150 or 160 head of cattle each six months, the greater pro-
portion of which finds its way to London.
Mr. Saunders, examined by Mr. Gienex—ls a solicitor and
millowner, at Coulsham. 4,075 sacks of flour is annually sold
within a circuit of ten miles in that district. The trade would be
considerably increased by better facilities for transit being afforded
them with Dereham.
The Marquis of Hastings, examined by Mr. GRIDEN—His seat of
Shepton-Constable is about twelve miles distant from Dereham, thirty
from Lynn, and ten from Blakeney. He was formerly Member for
the western division of die county of Norfolk, and is perfectly ac-
quainted with the neighbourhood of Dereham, Thetford, Wyndham,
&c. Taking into consideration the profits of the branch to Dereham
and the Norwich direct, regards the Wyndham and Dereham line
as by fir the preferable, even should its adoption cause a delay of
ten or twelve minutes in the arrival of the trains at Norwich.' The
nature of the country directly north of Dereham is more than
rdinarily productive; but those fine agricultural districts, horn
want of a ready connexion with the metropolitan markets, re-
main comparatively undeveloped. For them the best
line would have been one from Wells to Thetford ;
but for the other end of the county a line would be wholly use-
less. Is thoroughly conversant with the district traversed by the
railway between Hunningliam and Norwich ; it is rather light, but
the productiveness of laud materially depends upon the conduct of
the farmers.—(A laugh.)
Cross-examined by Mr. CALVERT—Knows Mr. Gouch, a farmer,
residing near Hunningham, than whom few farm more extensively
in the county. In stating his opinion of the merits of the re-
spective lines, he has been chiefly considering the most rapid
means of conveyance between East Dereham and London.
By the CHAIRMAN—A line from Wells to East Dereham
would, of all others, confer the greatest advantages on the dis-
tricts. A communication with London would be far more valu-
able than one with Norwich.
By Mr. COBDEN—The road between Wells and Thetford is both
direct and important, a considerable through traffic to London
passing daily over it.

and 7001. less than a fortnight ago, in consequence of the carriage.
For this purpose the Guildford and Chichester line would be per-
fectly useless to him, and, though the atmospheric line was at
some little distance, yet, in the event of therc., being a station at
Albury, he would obtain all the advantage he desired.
Mr. Rose, a timber-merchant for the last 26 years at Dorking,
stated that the feeling of the people at and about that place were
decidedly its favour of the atmospheric line. He sent between
six hundred and seven hundred tons of hoops to London every
year at a cost of 14s. to 15s. a ton, while by the railway they
would be sent at not more than ss. or Gs. a ton. He believed that
there were not less than 200,000 or 300,000 quarters of oats
brought from London at a cost of 2s. a quarter. There was also
a large quantity of oil-cake and other feed for cattle sent. Commer-
cial goods now cost a guinea a ton for carriage, and he would save
1501. to 2001. a year. The terminus at London-bridge would also
be tar more convenient than the other. He had been in favour of
the proposed Brighton line, but that would take them a long way
round about.
To the re-examination of Mr. RAWLINiON, the witness stated
that there had always been a considerable trade between Leather.
head, Ewell, Epsom, and Dorking, and there was but little inter-
course with the eastern country. All the coaches, waggons, and
other public conveyances passed by the route through Leatherhead.
He knew that coals were frequently to be obtained at Portsmouth
at from 16s. to 18s. a ton, and certainly much cheaper than they
were to be had in London.
Mr. Ede, postmaster and wholesale perfumer at Dorking, stated
his impression that the formation of the railway would materi.
ally increase the business of the town and neighbourhood.
Dorking had formerly been a favourite place for the residence of
gentlemen in the City, but it had been superseded by other places
which had better railway communication. He had personally
suffered considerably from the want of a railway, and he did not
think that the Brighton Railway could satisfy the requirements of
the country. Certainly if this railway were made he could double
the amount of his trade.
Mr. White, an auctioneer and estate agent at Dorking, stated
that, until within the last five or six years, there had been a great
accession of strangers during the summer, two conches extra
being put on the road on Mondays and Saturdays, but that
but that circumstance had made but little addition to the
trade of Dorking. The property there had consequently
greatly declined in value since the opening of the lines
to Southampton and Brighton, and he had now several houses
which were at present not likely to be let, and othet s, for which he
was now negotiating, and which were to be let or not, as this Bill
was obtained or lost. By private inquiries, he had learned that the
amount of traffic was more than 23,000/. With respect to coals,
if the communication were to be opened to the south, they would
get them very much cheaper and In greater abundance. Ile
thought that the line from Reigate to Dorking would
not give them the same advantage on the atmospheric line, and
the whole of the feeling of the town was in favour of the latter.
He had taken the population within three miles of both the proposed
lines, and he found that within that distance there was a population
of 135,061 on the atmospheric line, and 117,966 on the Guilford
line. Between Epsom and Godalming there were upwards of 170
gentlemen's seats, the whole country being a continual park ground,
the distance being about 2] or 22 miles.
To the cross.examination of Mr. M. SMITH, the witness stated
that he did not think that the visitors of the town would be ab-
stracted by the coast if they had a railway to the town. In one
instance he had taken the population from Epsom to Portsmouth,
and in the other from Guilford, and he had included Chichester,
but had left out both Petworth, and Midhurst.
Mr. James Franks, a miller and farmer at Albury, stated that he
sent from seventy or eighty sacks of flour to Leatherhead, Dorking,
and some 'in London, and he thought that the London_
bridge terminus would be infinitely more convenient to
to him, and that railway communication would be very largely in-
creased by the proposed line.
Mr. George Dewdney, a miller at Dorking, stated that if this
line were made, they would save three fourths of the expense of
carriage. They now paid about 16s. a ton for carriage, while the
railway would carry for 4s. They sent about 480 sacks a week, and
they could send 800 or 900 to London, and he believed that they
would do so. The Dorking flour had a very high character in the
London market, but the millers around Dorking were undersold by
the millers at Guildford, who could get flour to London for 6s.
a ton.

GROUP R.
',TYNDALE AND ENNITSEILLEN.
Nearly all of them were at stations where police would be always
in attendance, but those which were nor so situated would have
police appointed to watch them. These level crossings were neces.
sary to avoid heavy embankments The deepest cutting on
the line was seventy-eight feet at the sixty.first mile-stone.
The curves were generally very good. The following were
the estimates he had made of the cost of construction :—land,
50,5111.; earthwork, 211,506/. I3s. 5d.; altering roads,
8,8991. Is. 9P.; altering the course of streams, 6921.; sliding
slopes, 7,6021, 6s. 10d.; balancing and boring, 42,1674 10s.;
altering approach to bridges, 2,602/. I6s. ; fencings, 10,027/. 10s.;
bridges, 34,096/. ; level crossings, 2,308/. ; culverts, 6,921/. 10s. ;
permanent way, 198,1011. 18s. 6d. ; stations and con-
tingencies, 89,2364 4s. 3d. Total, 684,1441. 4s. 3d. The
capital of the Company was 750,000/., which, after meeting
these items, left a considerable margin. The annual charge of
working the line he estimated at thirty per cent, on the receipts,
and after meeting that, and the interest of money borrowed at the
rate of four per cent., the receipts would leave a sufficient sum for
the shareholders.
This closed the case for the Dundalk and Enniskillen line.
The Committee, having resumed their decision, called on the
case of the

NZ;VRY AND ENNISKILLEN RAILWAY.
Mr. Sergeans WRANGIIAX opened the case on behalf of the pro-
jectors. As the line was unopposed he would but briefly point out
the advantages of the line, and the local benefits it would
confer on the country through which it was to pass. The
line was seventy-one miles in length, and was proposed
to be taken from the town of Enniskillen to the port of Newry,
thus connecting a great interior agricultural district with an lin-
portant commercial town and harbour. The Learned Gentleman
then went into the leading facts he intended to prove iu evidence,
and proceeded to call witnesses on behalf of his case.
Captain Lewis, of Mom-ghan, gave evidence as to the feelings of
the people of that county being generally in favour of this line.
Mr. Kirk, of heady, gave evidence as to the linen trade of the
north of Ireland, and especially along the route of the proposed
line. It was in substance similar to what we gave in the report of
the same gentleman's examination on the Belfast Junction.
Mr. Carville, timber merchant, of Newry, gave evidence as to
the trade of Newry, which he represented to be very considerable.
In comparing the freights, those of Newry were lower than those
of Dublin and Belfast, arising principally from the superiority of
the harbour.
Lord Gosford, Lord Lieutenant of the county of Armagh, gave
it as his opinion that the line would be of great service to the
county, and that it was most desirable to connect the interior with
such an important port as Newry.
The further hearing of the evidence wag then postponed t
Monday

By Mr. RICARDO—The inhabitants about Dercham would prefer
a longer route to Norwich, if coupled with a line to London, than
a more direct communication with the former, while the metropolis
was unsatisfactorily connected.

Mr. Tingey, examined by Mr. GIRDEN—Is a`farmer and grazier
residing a short distance from Wyndham, and proprietor of the
Harding mills, fourteen miles from that town. The greatest diffi-
culties of transit are now experienced in those districts, and the
most serious disadvantages result to the traffic, and depreciate the
value of produce.

Mr. Neave, a gentleman farming seven hundred acres in the
neighbourhoods of Wyndham and Dereham, gave similar evidence
respecting the great need and prospective advantages of railway ac-
commodation to these towns.

The Rev. Temple Frere, examined by Mr. ANDREWS, Q.C.—ls a
resident at Royden, within a mile of Dias. He and his family are
considerable landowners in that district. The Diss and Attlebo-
rough line would confer great advantages on the traffic and
interests of the whole country in that direction, by forming
a communication with Cambridge, Ely, Norwich, and other
important towns. He presided at a meeting of the
inhabitants of Diss, when both the direct line to Ipswich
through Dies, and the Diss and Attleborough branch, being before
discussion, the preference was given to the latter by a majority of
five to one. He therefore supported that whieh he felt convinced
would be most advantageous to the inhabitants generally,
though the other line would be far more beneficial
to himself individually, passing as it would through
nine parishes in which he and his brother possessed property to an
amount of 4,000/. or 5,000/. a year.

BELFAST 3IINCTION SILL.
The remaining clauses of this Bill were then read and agreed to,
and the Chairman instructed to report it to the House.
The Committee then adjourned till Monday, at twelve o'clock.

GROUP SS.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
Mr. Pickering, whose examination in chief was taken yesterday,
was re-called and cross -examined by Mr. VENISON, with a view of
eliciting the fact that the canal could convey the coals at a much
lower rate than the railway.
The Committee then adjourned till Monday.

Mr. TAMES, Q.C., was about to cross-examine this witness;
when it was objected by

Mr. GIRDEN, that the Learned Counsel had no locus standi to
oppose the branch in question, appearing, as he did, for a scheme
wholly unconnected with it.

Mr. JamEs offered to desist, if Mr. Girden agreed to omit the
consideration of the intercourse on the Diss and Attleborougki
branch, in making up his traffic tables for the whole line.

Mr. GIRDEN declined to give this concession, and the right of
Mr. James to appear was admitted.

The witness was accordingly cross.examined by Mr. JAMES, Q.C.
—The present accommodation is very unsatisfactory. A con.
nexion with Norwich would be advantageous, as also one to Ips-
wich. The inhabitants would have no objection to both.

To the inquiries of the CHAIRMAN, the witness replied that
Dorking was eight miles from the Reigate station, the same dis-
tance which Guilford was from Woking, and it was certainly not
entirely owing to railway communication, hut the Guildford people
had the advantage of water carriage, the cost of which had been re.
duced since the railways were opened. And if they had this rail-
way, he believed they could compete with the steam power on the
Thames; but he had now 1::st three or four very good customers,
from the want of conveyance.
To the inquiry of Mr. OSWALD , the witness stated that the dis-
tance from Dorking by Epsom was about 24 miles, and by Rei.
gate 26 or 27 miles.

Cross.examined by Mr. RonwEn—Remembers perfectly the
proceedings of the meeting held at Dies. Does not think a motion
was carried in favour of the direct line to London through Ipswich.
The Learned Counsel then put into the witness's hand the fol-
lowing resolution :

" That it is the opinion of this meeting, that the proposed line
from Norwich, by Attleborough to Diss, and from Diss to London
by Brandon, will not establish, to the satisfaction of the inha-
bitants of this locality, the railway communication between
Norwich, Diss, and London, and that the inhabitants of this
neighbourhood will be most essentially benefited by a line of rail-
way running through Ipswich to London."

Mr, Bothwell, a lime-burner and coal.merchant for the last 30
years at Dorking, stated that he employed from 25 to 30 horses
in carrying lime to London and bringing back coals. For the last
three or four years he had consumed about 10,000 tons of coals,
but the trade had declined during the last nine or ten years, not-
withstanding the high repute which the Dorking lime had in Lon-
don. Coals also were very dear at Derking, and he believed that if
this railway were made the trade would be recovered, and he felt
assured that the atmospheric line was the best for the town and
neighbourhood. There was a considerable quantity of grocery
goods, timber, stone, and slates brought to Dot-king for the
supply of the adjoining districts. He would bring all his coals by
railway, and those which now sold for 3Ss. or 40s. a ton could be
supplied at 325. a ton.
Mr. Chitty, proprietor of a water bone-mill, at Leatherhead,
stated that he had about 300 tons a-year, which cost him 12s. 9d.
a ton for carriage-3s. from the Borough to Nine.elms, 2s. 9d. by
rail to Kingston, and 7s. a ton thence to Leatherhead. He thought
that more bark was sent to Bermondsey from that neighbourhood
than all England put together, it might be from 7,000 to 10,000
tons a year. A great number of hides were sent to him from
London, and he was obliged to send for them himself in conse-
quence of being eleven miles from any railway. There were about
fifteen tons of grocery goods a week sent to Leatherhead, which
cost 20s. a ton, while by the atmospheric line they would get them
for 16s. 6d. a ton, and in coals alone they would save 10s.
a toe. For all purposes the terminus at London-bridge
would Ise most convenient especially for business purposes, and
unless they got this line he must give up the whole of his busi-
ness, for he could not compete with any person who had the ad-
vantage of railway communication within one hundred miles of
London.

Witness (in continuation)—Believes that that resolution, moved
by Mr. Cupiss, and seconded by Mr. Dyson, was carried unani-
mously.

The Speaker was here announced at prayers, and the Committee
adjourned till Monday next.

GROUP KK
LIVERPOOL AND BURY LINE.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. John Bernard Hartley was, with his father, engineer to the
new Liverpool docks. New docks were in course of construction
under the Bill of last year. The plans are in preparation for lay-
ing down rails along the docks. Agreed with Mr. Thompson in
thinking the connexion between the projected line and the docks
simple and feasible. Slips were in course of construction for
landing cattle at the docks. Considered the course proposed by
Mr. Thompson for shipping cattle advantageous. The "hoist"
proposed would answer all the purposes of shifting the coals from
the stages into the holds of the vessels in the docks beneath.
Mr. John Raslig, civil engineer, stated that he had examined
the country traversed by the proposed line, and the branches
of it, and his opinion was that, in an engineering point of
view, the line had been judiciously laid out to suit the cha-
racter of the country. Had examined the estimate of the
expenses of the railway, and thought they were ample for all pur-
poses. There were no engineering difficulties on this line. There
were two gradients in the line; one of them was 1 in 97, and the
other 1 in 90; but the:e would be no difficulty in working the en.
gine along them. There were two gradients, 1 in 87 and lin 97,
along the Liverpool and Manchester line, and a gradient of 1 in 80
along the Bolton and Leigh line. There were no objectionable
curves on the line. The railway running along the docks would
be particularly advantageous, and so would the elevation at the ter.
minus. The line would pass through an excellent coal-field,
which would be highly beneficial to the agricultural and manufactur.
log population of these districts.
Mr. George Leather, an engineer, corroborated the evidence of
the last witness in every respect.

Mr. ELLIS, proprietor of a large water-mill at Petcham, near
Leatherhead, stated that he sent from eighty to ninety sacks of
flour weekly to London, and the saving to him in carriage of the
proposed line would be 380/. a year in flour alone. The trade at
Leatherhead had declined, and the only chance of its recovery was
the formation of this line. In addition to this flour he had three
hundred tons of corn in which he should effect a saving.
Mr. Crafts, formerly a coach proprietor at Petersfleld, said that
in 1836 and 1837 there were 17 coaches and two mails went
through the town daily, making 19.2 journeys, and carrying nine
passengers each journey. There were above 100 pairs of horses
employed in posting between Godalming and Portsmouth Wheir
duty would average about ten miles a day. They had received
about 3,600/. a year for coach parcels, and of fish especially there
was a very large quantity carried from Portsmouth, as much, he
would say, as would return 14,0001. a year. They also at that
time had a great traffic with the Isle of Night; but the trade had
greatly decreased since the opening of the South-Western Railway.
This eoneuded the evidence for the traffic and produce on the
line.

_ .
Mr. John Hawkshawe, an engineer, had been engaged in laying
down and completing several railways. Knew the country which
would be traversed by the proposed line, and thought the line had
been judiciously selected. There were no engineering difficulties
on it. The curves and gradients were favourable, with one or
two trifling exceptions. Thought Mr. Thompson's estimates fully
sufficient to cover all expenses.

Cross-examined by Mr. BRANDT—The Wigan coal-fields were
at present traversed by the Leeds and Liverpool Canal, but the
route of the canal was very circuitous, and it got out of the coal-
field as soon as it could.--(Laughter.)
Mr. Dangan gave confirmatory evidence. He was ready to com.
plate the proposed lineon the estimate furnished by Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Wightman had examined the line of the projected railway
in Liverpool, and the value of the land and loss occasioned by
pulling down buildings would be 102,1761.

HORSHAM nruizsrcu RAILWAY.
The Committee on Group L took this line, which is an extension
of the Brighton line intermediately, as it was unpposed.
Mr. Rastrick, the engineer to the Brighton Railway, stated
that the proposed line was a very easy one,
the steepest gradient
being 1 in 132 for the distance of a mile, and the smallest curve
had a radius of 20 chains. The line commenced at the Three.
bridge station on the Brighton line, about 29 miles from London, the
total length of the line being
eight miles and three furlongs.
There were no engineering difficulties, no tunnels, deep cuttings,
or high embankments. Six parish roads and two turnpike.roads
would be crossed on the level. The estimated cost was 100,0001. The
earthworks would be 12,2051. 7r, ;
bridges, 14,750/. ; the per-
manent way, 27,8381. 15s. ; stations, signals, &c., 6,590/. ; con-
tingent expenses, 9,9761. 15$. ; making the whole engineering
cost 76,422/. The land was valued at 12,7001. by Mr. Driver,
thus leaving 10,8781. surplus.
__ _ .

Mr. Picton, architectural surveyor, corroborated the testimony
of the last witness.

Mr. Joseph Darlington, a land agent and valuer, residing near
Wigan—The value of the land and buildings on the main line in
the neighbourhood of Wigan was 20,3981. 16s. 2d., and at the
Ormskirk branch 2,9491. 9s. O'd.
Mr. Jehn Herand said petitions had been presented from
Liverpool, Bolton, Wigan, and Bury, in favour of the projected
signed by 44,298 per:ons, comprising some of the first mer-
chants in Liverpool and the other towns ; also numerous peti-
tions from Irish towns and cities—Waterford, Newry, Clomnel,
and other places.

Cross-examined by Mr. BRANDT—Was Secretary to the Com.
pany, and was in some manner instrumental in getting up the pe-
titions, but did not canvass for signatures.
With the exception of some formal evidence, the case for the
promoters of the line closed, and the Committee adjourned.

Mr. Driver stated that he had surveyed the line, and that the
valuation was amply sufficient.

Mr. Mangridge stated that the number of passengers anticipated
was 88,076 annually.

GROUP L.
PORTSMOUTH .S.TMOSPHRRIO LINE.

Mr. Sutton, Parliamentary agent of the Company, stated the pro •
posed capital was 100,000/., of which the Brighton Company were
entitled to raise 33,0001. by loan; the shares were all taken, and the
required deposits had been paid.
The preamble was then proved and the Committee went
through several of the clauses, but the Committee requiring some
regulation of the tolls, adjourned the consideration of the remainder
till to-morrow at twelve o'clock.

The Committee resumed their inquiry this morning, Mr. E. B.
Denison in the chair, when

Mr. Bonham Coster was called. He stated that he was a large
proprietor of land in the neighbourhood of PeterAeld, possessing
property in East and West Mein, Liss, and Maple Durham, and
also in the neigbourhood of Portsmouth, and in the Isle
of Wight. The country about his property was decidedly
over-timbered in consequence of the difficulty of getting it away.
Among this timber, there was much that was eligible for the pur-
poses of the navy; and if this atmospheric line were to be formed,
there would be a great advantage to all the landed proprietors in
the country. He had no shares at present, but he was quite
willing to take them in order to give his sanction to the line. The
fares on the South. Western line were dearer, according to his
experience, than any other line, for he had paid the other day
precisely the same sum in travelling from Leamington, for 103
miles, which he had to pay for travelling the 77 miles to
Southampton. For all purposes he conceived that the atmos-
pheric line would be the best for the country at all the inter-
mediate stations.

Sir William Magnay stated that he had a large manufactory at
Chillford, near Albury, between Dorking and Godalming, and was,
in addition to a large business on his hands, a Government con-
tractor for a considerable amount. The Government contracts
were objects of great competition, and the question of carriage made
a most important difference. In consequence of the cheapness of
the carriage, and the facilities that the manufacturers pos.
sessed, it enabled them to,compete with the makers in the south
to such an extent that he had been induced to close one of his
mills and get part of his supplies from the north. The distance of
the terminus at Vauxhall entirely prevented any advantage from
the: South-Western line. His carriage amounted to 1,0001. a
year, and he should immediately increase his power it this line
were to be formed. They used water power, but steam was the
means by which they dried their paper, and they consumed a con-
siderable quantity of coals in boiling their rags. He had also a
mill near Riekmansworth, in Hertfordshire, but had never used the
Birmingham Railway, from which his property was about four
miles distant. It was of importance to him where the station was
placed, and he believed that the atmospheric line would pass by his
mill head.
To the cross.examination by Mr. COCKBURN, Sir William
stated that he was not aware that the line had been changed to
avoid Mr. Drummond's property, and if it did not pass near him,
and there was not a station at Albury, the whole of his evidence
would fall to the ground. If there were no station at Wonersh,
and if there were only stations at Godalming and Guildford, he
would be better as ho was ; but, if there were a station at Sheer,
or at the south of Mr. Drummond's park, it would be a
great advantage to him. They sent all their goods to
London by waggon, but got their coals by water. They were now
27 miles from London, and he expected that the atmospheric line
would shorten the distance by two miles.
Mr. John Sparks, a landowner at Wonersh, and in three ad-
joining parishes—He held about 700 acres in his own hands,
and had also a tan yard, from which goods, at the rate of
about two tons a week, were conveyed to and from London,
and he would save about half of his present expense
of carriage if the atmospheric line was made. He sent
from 40 to 50 beasts to the London market, and 500 or 600 sheep
during the year. He used Guildford market for his wheat and
Godalming for barley, and if a direct communication were opened
he should send a larger quantity of corn to each place. In the
neighbourhood of Cranley there was a considerable growth
of timber, which was now sent by water carriage, but was
slow arid uncertain, and they did not enjoy the advantage which
they ought to possess. The terminus at London-bridge would cer-
tainly be the best.

To the cross-examination of Mr. H. SMITH, Mr. Sparks stated
that the feeling of the landowners was certainly not against the
atmospheric line. He now paid 255. a ton_for carriage, and ex-
pected to save one.half by the railway. His means of conveyance
were now waggons, although there was a canal within about two
miles, which gave them water conveyance to Guildford. He sent
his cattle and sheep to market, partly on foot, and partly by rail,
the difference between the projects being about three miles.
Mr. Samuel Lovegrove, at Gewhurst, near Abinger, a charcoal
burner and. timber dealer, having a tyle.yard in his hands, stated
that he experienced considerable difficulty in getting his goods to
the London market. He sent about 10,000 sacks of charcoal to the
London market at a cost of from 3d. to 4d. a sack. The whole
weight might be about 200 tons, and he sent also about 150 tons
of timber, and he would save a considerable sum if the atmos.
Oak railway was made. He had !oat an order of between 600/.