The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-01 00:00:00

not because I think that the Bill of last year went as far
as principle might lead it, but because it was a mea-
sure political expediency. In the same way I advo-
Shoef
oate the principles of the Resolutions I am about to pro-
pose.---1 feel that under these circumstances we are called
upon to deal with this question, and I, looking to the
practical result—the establishment of a sound system—
feel that here, too, we must yield to political expediency.
It is my desire, in the first instance, to repeal the Acts of
1815 and 1822 ; those him which, as I contend, are
calculated to cherish much error and mischievous mis-
apprehension on the subject, which contributed to
the creation of separate interests, and to found in
their stead a system founded on sound principles. If
we sanction this principle respecting the Corn Laws, we
shall have made a great step; for I must confess that it is
so important to obtain a declaration from this House, that
it is satisfied in that principle, that I should consider such
a declaration a step in advance. With respect to the Corn
Bill of last year, the same thing happened that bad, in a
former session, occurred to the Catholic Question, namely,
that because one clause in the measure had been rejected in
the House of Lords, the Bill was abandoned. In the policy
and the propriety of that course I do not concur. I think,
that if the Bill had come down to this House, even with
the amendment, we should have made a step in advance
towards amelioration. (Hear, hear, hear.) The objects
of both Bills may be achieved iu two ways—one by the
augmentation of the scale of duties contemplated in the
Bill of last Session; the other, by collateral regulations.
With respect to the first, the augmentation of duties which
I propose will differ in some respects from the former. If
(for illustration) you take 80s. as the duty when the price
of corn shall have reached 544. per quarter, I propose to
diminish it by one shilling for every advance of one shilling
in price—that is, when the price shall be 555., the duty
shall he29e.—.when the price shall be 565., to make the
duty 28.. per quarter. So far the duties of last year and
the scale I mean to propose, concur ; and it is my inten-
tion to move, that that scale shall continue in the same
course until the price shall have advanced to 665. ; and
then the duty shall be diminished by 2s. for every increase
of is. in price, until it reach about 69.. ; and then (and
until the price shall reach 711 per quarter) to diminish the
duty by Ss. per quarter. These are the two scales ; at
the price of 575. per quarter they agree ; but as they pro-
ceed by different scales of reduction of duty, according as
the price advances, a considerable difference occurs, and in
this way :
At from 58s. to 59.. (the Imperial Quarter) I s. d.
propose a duty of 2B 8
At from 59.. to 60. 27 8
60s. to 61. 26 8
t; Is. to 62s 25 8
625. to 63s 24 8
635. to 64.
645. to 65s . 22 8
655. to 66. 2l 8
665. to 67,
At from 67.. to 68s. the increased scale of re-
duction will coinuteuee, namely, by 2.. so that the
duty in that ease will be..
From 68s. to 69..

18 8
16 8

From t.:9s. to 70s. (now dropping 3s. per guar.) 13 8
From 70s. to 7I s. (a difference of 49.).... ....... 10 8
71s. to 72s 6 8
725. to 738 ' • 2 8
735. to 74s 1 0
After which it is to cease altogether. So far with regard
to duty on wheat. I now come to the other species of
grain. Applications have been made to his Majesty's Go-
vernment respecting the duties on barley an 4 oats, com-
plaining of the present amount and calling for alteration;
but on mature consideration, and particularly referring to
what took place last session on the subject, it is not my
intention to propose any alteration with regard to them.
I said in the outset, that there was another mode be-
sides a scale of duties, by which the objects we have in
view might be attained ; and I advert to that now, be-
cause I have received applications, that in my proposed
measure should be included various regulations of quan-
tities imported of foreign wheat and other corn ; hut it
appeared to his Majesty's Government, that it would be
better at once to establish a scale of duties, than adopt any
other mode. The measure of which I speak will, there-
fore, be the same as that of last session, with the exceptions
to which I have referred—l mean the increased scale of
duties respecting wheat. If it shall be asked whether, in
this scale, the price chosen has been for any reason pecu-
liarly selected ? I must answer, as: Mr. canning answered
a similar question last year—namely, that in a scale of
fluctuating duties it is impossible to fix prices. No ab-
stract reason can be assigned why one price should be
fixed more than another, Various circumstances must
influence the result—the price of corn in foreign countries— -
the rate of exchange and of freight—the state of our own
currency—the quantity and the quality of the supply. It
is quite impossible, therefore, by any rule of mathematical
precision, to fix on any price in preference. My resolu-
tions may, in that' respect, be incomplete; but, such as
they are, I recommend them to the Muse, as those which

if passed into a law, would be most likely to bring the
question to a satisfactory termination—if passed into a law,
I anticipate, and I trust I shall not be disappointed, that it
will prove a highly beneficial measure- for the country—
that it will have the effect of removing a fluctuating and an
injurious law, and of establishing a general, a permanent
and a sound system in its place. The effect of the measure
would be, moreover, to increase public confidence and
good feeling—to give rise to more correct views—to dis-
abuse the public respecting the exaggerated reports now re-
ceived, and to allay those extravagant expectations which
both parties found upon their respective theories.—(Hear.)
In offering this measure, therefore, to the agricultural
and lauded interests, I offer to them a resting place on
a secure and firm basis—not one which, like a founda-
tion of sand, might he swept from beneath their feet.
Of this House, I beg that the measure may be consi-
dered as one of arbitration. It may be imagined that it
falls short of the Bill of last year—but it is as near it
as possible—as near to it as it could be rendered under the
altered circumstances of the two periods. With respect to
myself, I may, perhaps, be permitted to say, that I would
not introduce it were I not persuaded that it u ill prove be-
neficial' to the country. If Mr. Canning himself were to
be placed in my situation, he would not have hesitated to
recommend it to the House, because he himself founded his
own measure upon the principle of a compromise—he in-
tended it as a peace offering—and a meant of reconciling
contending interests.--(Hear, hear.)—On that ground
aZone, I trust the House will adopt this measure, and in so
doing adopt I.kflr,, Canning's measure and his recommenda-
tion. I am quite awe, that every Hon. Gentleman who
has anticipated my reference tp that splendid speech, in
which he recommended the measure on which my proposed
Bill is founded, will recall the conviction it impressed upon
his mind,--(Cheers)—that splendid speech, in which were
displayed that classic, temperate, and chastened eloquence,
of which Mr, Capping was as great a master as he was
of wit, fancy, and genius, in tl,lPir Most exquisite forms.—
(Loud and continued cheers.)-1 am quite sure that the
House will recollect the impression then made upon it by
that splendid speech of him who was its ornament..L.
the delight of those whom be led, and the admiration
ewe:4 of those to whom it was his fortune to be opposed.—
(Continued cheering.)—ln the expression of his admi-
ration, I feel cousuloos that I shall be supported, not only
by the unanimous voice tit: every lion. Member in this
House, but by every feeling and intelligent mind through-
out the empire, nay, throughout the world.—(Entliusiagie
elre,ering.)—On these grounds, I trust, the House will
concur in my resolution—and even if it shall be found de-
ficient in any of those qualities which recommended the
former measure to their adoption, that they will attribute
it not to any inherent fatilt of the measure itself, but im-
pute it to the littleness of the (.iyocate by whom it is
brought forward.—(Cheers.)—The Right Hyn. Gentle-
man then proposed his resolution in the following terms
" That it is the opinion of this Committee that any sort
of corn, grain, meal, and flour, which may now by law
be imported into the United Kingdom, shall he at all times
ct,dmissible for home use upon payment of the duties follow-
ing, if imported from 'a foreign country, whenever the
average price of wheat, made up and published in manner
required by lay, shall lee."—,(llere the Chairman read the
:wale above quoted.)
Th 2 Resolution having beep read fFont the
Mr. W. VVIIMIOR4 said it was not his intention to
a
trespass oil the attention of the Committee for more than
few moments, as a future and a fitter opportunity would
offer fur the expression of his sentirneots respecting Ore
resolution just read ; but lie seized the earliest possible
occasion to enter his protest against the measure of the
Right Hon. Gerite.man, because if lie differed from the
measure of last Session, thie was so much inferior to it--so
contrary to all the purposes of
,eomniercia/ legislation, that
he confessed he could not only not give it his support, but
that it was also with a great degree of surprise tt et be
had beard the speech of the Rit:la Pon. gentleman the
president of the Board of Trade, Ills Right Hon. Friend
had talked lunch of the advantage likely to accrue to the
country by the establishment of a different principle from
that WhiCt prevailed at present; but if the protecting
duty to be applied amounted to absolute exclusion, it
mattered very little to these who suffered by it, wile •
ther that exclusion was produced by duty or by law.
He trusted, therefore, that the Home and the country
would not submit to the delusion contained in the
Resolution of his Right Honourable Friend. if there
were to be a complete exclusion' of foreign corn, he knew

not what could be said respecting the difference of exclu.
sion by duty or exclusion by law. He denied that this
was a compromise between two parties in the country; it
was only a compromise of the Cabinet.—(Hear, hear.)
He felt quite confident that if that great man—the lament-
ed Mr. Canning—was now living, the changes that had
occurred since the measure was last debated in that House
would have no weight with him at all. The bonded corn
that had accumulated between 1825 and 1828 on the duty
of twelve shillings bad been so collected, under the impres-
sion that no higher duty world be imposed, and it would
have been better for the importers of it to bring it into the
market even at the duty of 1/. 2s. Bd. or 1/. 44. Bd., than
leave it in their warehouses, or export it again. And on
this grain he was authorised to say, that great losses had
been suffered by the importers--in one ease alone, on three
cargoes of wheat that had been imported from Odessa, the
result was a loss on the whole of 2,000/. There was no
reason to think that a great increase bad taken place in the
quantity of foreign corn imported ; for though there was
much foreign corn in bond last year, the quantity of wheat
imported this year did not exceed 150,000 quarters. The
result of the present measure would be to destroy the trade
in foreign corn altogether, and thus deprive the country of
a regular supply against a period of exigency.
Sir THOMAS GOOCH—Nothing was, in his opinion,
more injurious than the frequent tampering with the Corn
Laws ; and he hoped the question would be permanently
settled before the prorogation of Parliament. For his part,
he was friendly to the existing law on the subject, tinder
which he begged gentlemen to remember, that wheat was
cheaper than it had been since the law of 1815. But as
it was probable he should be beaten out of that existing
law, the next to receive his support would be that proposed
by the Right Hon. Gentleman that night. There was one
fault, however, in the Right Lion. 'Gentleman's measure;
it professed that the proposed mode of taking the averages
would give the cultivator of wheat a remunerating price of
60s. ; that it may give him.that price occasionally be would
not deny, but the question was; would it secure it to him ?
He had himself sent some wheat to market last week, and
though it purported to have been sold at 605., yet, after
drawbacks and other charges, all he received out of it Was
56e.—(Question.)--He requested Hon. Members to listen
to him a few moments, assuring them, that it gave him
more pain to speak in that Mouse than it did to other Hon.
Members to hold their tongues.--(Laughter.)—ln sup-
port of his opinion, lie would briefly read a document re-,
ceived from persons interested in the subject.
" From the principle of the Bill for regulating the Sale of
Foreign Corn (proposed to Parliament in the last Session by
'Ministers), the premises may be justly assumed, that Go-
vernment considered a less average price than sixty shil-
lings for a quarter of wheat (Winchester measure) would
not remunerate the grower thereof: it therefore becomes
essential to the security of agriculturists to provide, that
the averages should be so computed as to realise this in-
tention of Government. But if it can be proved that the
averages are now- partly composed of profits irrelevant to
the gains of the growers of corn, so as to render the aver-
age of sixty shillings not equivalent to fifty -eight shillings,
a case will be established, demanding the prompt attention
of those interested in the welfare of agriculture, to remedy
this fallacious mode of reckoning the averages.
" The truth of this case will appear by investigating
the common process of traffic in corn.
" Let us suppose, that a farmer should sell a quarter of
wheat for fifty-six shillings to a merchant (A), who will
return that price.to the inspector of corn-returns ; this
fifty-six shillings is the whole amount received by the farmer.
And suppose, that the merchant (A) should re-sell the same
wheat for fifty-eight shillings (only a moderate advance to
pay expences of warehouse, porterage, carriage, and profit)
to another merchant (B), who in like manner will return
the price of fifty-eight shillings. Arid again, suppose that
the last merchant (B) should resell the same wheat for
sixty shillings, (for, as before stated, he must require a
remuneration of two shillings) to a third merchant (C),
who also will return the price sixty shillings (sales of the
same corn are frequently made more than thrice), the con-
sequence of the two last returns fifty-eight and sixty shil-
lings is to add Cs. to the averages ; for the first sum 56 shil-
hags is all that accrues to the grower; the second, fifty-
sight shillings, being two shillings more, and the third
sixty shillings, being four shillings more than the original
cost, make six shillings additional ; because each sum is
separately returned, and forms a component part of the in-
tegral average. The two advances of two shillings and
four shillings are for indemnities and profits to the mer-
chants, in which the grower does not participate ; never-
theless by the present unjust system of computation they
calm a correspondent rise in the averages, thereby frustrat-
ing the intended protection to agriculturists.
" It is worthy of remark, that such a specious protection
to farmers, creates an unfair clamour among the commer-
cial and manufacturing classes of this country, who view
with jealousy this amount of nominal security.
" To remedy this evil, it is only requisite for the Corn
Bill about to be laid before Parliament by the Ministers to
limit the Returns of purchasers of corn and pulse, which
shall hereafter be made, to the Inspectors of Corn Returns,
to purchases made from the Growers only."
In the opinion conveyed in that document, lie fully con.
Curred. It was not fair to hold up the agriculturists as
receiving greater prices than they actually did. As to the
subject before the House, all he would say was, that be
placed his entire confidence in the Noble Duke at the head
of the Ministry. He was sure that his Grace never would
take any step injurious to the Loaded interest ; nor was

. _
there any Minister since Mr. Pitt, in whom he (Sir Thos.
Gooch) had greater confidence.--(Cheering.)
Mr. BENETT (when he became audible) was under-
stood to say, that he considered the landed interest enti-
tled to a protecting duty in consequence of the gi eat burden
of taxation which they had to bear, and even to some-
thing more than protection, when it was remembered to
what an amount of local rates they were subject. That
was the principle on which he should proceed in relation
to the Corn Question, and on that ground he thought the
Right Hon. Gentleman's proposition a sound one. But
he could not see why the duty should be increased to two
shillings on the diminution of the price by one. He,
however, hoped that no vote would be taken on the ques-
tion that night, in the absence of so many Members who
were interested in it. That the British agriculturists
required protection would appear from papers on the table,
which showed that 700,000 quarters of wheat had been
imported since July of last year, and were in the ware-
houses, anticipating a favourable sale in consequence of
the change of the law. He could not agree with the Hon.
Member for Bridgenorth that the proposed Bill would
amount to a prohibition ; if that Hon. Member's plan
were adopted, the country would go on importing foreign
corn in increased quantities, until it should be obliged to
depend entirely on foreign supplies. That the importation
of foreign corn had already increased to a great degree
would be proved by the fact, that the Government received
790,0004 in duty on foreign corn since last June—that
was since the period after which it was held out, that no
foreign corn would be imported. It was paid by a per-
son of high authority on the subject, that if this country
should ever import 400,000 quarters of wheat, the decline
of British agriculture may be dated from that period.
Yet in the last 4ialf year 515,000 had been imported, and
he was sure that the importation would, if allowed, soon
increase from half a million to a million. To the proposed
measure he was favourable through regard to the agricul-
tural interest ; but the class of agriculturists whose welfare
he consulted, was the working labourers, the tillers of.thiv,
land. The. positive sum paid to each workman for culti-
vating a luarter of wheat, was 20s. Now if foreign
wheat were allowed to he itnported, at low prices, to the
amount in quantity of a million of quarters, would not
the result of such importation be the depriving British
labourers of a great portion of their subsistence..
Mr. FERGUSSON agreed with Hon. Members in the
opinion that the present was no time to discuss the sub-
jrpt at length. He could not, however, agree with the
Hon. Member for Iridgpprth that the proposed measure
would be injurious; nor with the Hon. Member for Suffolk
in his predilection for the old law ; nor with the Hon.
Member fur Montrose in the policy of a fixed duty ; nor
did he think the proposed measure a compromise between
the conflicting interests of the country. He was, however,
of opinion on the whole that the Government ought to
have asided by the Bill they brought forward last year. it
was also to be regretted that the Right Hon. Gentleman
dtd not direct the averages to be taken in the three king-
doms, and that be had said nothing about the averages or
of any difference to be made between imported corn and
corn already in bond ; yet the wurehousing P:ystein was a
subject worthy the most serious deliberation. But the
point on which he particularly felt was whether or not
there was any concession to be made, as in the Bill of last
year, on the inferior grains, oats and barley. The interest
of England, in relation to wheat, had been provided for in
the Bill, but why were not the interests of Ireland and
Scotland, which chiefly produced the inferior grains, at-
tended to in the resolutions of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
If Rio regulation should be made by the Right Idon. Gen-
tl.man on this part of the subject, lie should feel himself
bound to take the sense of the Mouse on it at a future op-
portunity, with a view to place the interests of Scotland
and Ireland on the same favourable footing as those of the
English agriculturists.
Mr. ROBINSON,—As the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Grant) had used the tawne of Mr. Canning in his
speech, he would remind that Right Hon. Gentleman and
the House of the words used by Mr. Canning last March
in winding up his admirable speech on the subject. They

were these :—" That he did not mean to say that Bill
would conciliate all interests ; it was impossible but that
the balance should incline to one side, and as far as his Bill
went, the balance had been given in favour of the landed
interest." Now if the balance had been given in favour of
the landed interest by the Bill *of last year, why should the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grant) now propose a Bill
still more favourable to that interest? What then did that
circumstance prove, but that the Government was not able
to carry in that House any measure favourable to the con-
sumer of corn against the wishes of the landed interest.--
(Cheering. ) The Hon. Member for Suffolk had said that
the landed interest was hardly dealt with, in the fact that,
in taking the averages, the re-sales were taken into calcula-
tion, the ultimate average being taken according to the
highest and best market price at which the corn was sold;
but the Hon. Member had forgotten that in many cases the
person who bought the wheat at the last or highest price,
was obliged to sell it again at a loss of 21. a quarter. He
was bound as the representative of a manufacturing popula-
tion to say, that he could never recognise the principle that
the landed interest had a right to assume they were enti-
tled to a fixed protection for their interests above those of
other classes of subjects.
Lord MORPETH had expected that, if any deviations
should be made from the last year's Bill, the effect of such
alterations would be a diminution of the price not an
increase, the making bread cheaper not dearer. Reside the
Government had said, that the Bill of last year had been
framed on a calculation of the averages--if that was the
fact, surely on that principle, as the price of wheat was
under sixty shillings since last Spring, the prices in the
proposed Bill ought to be lower than they were then fixed ;
or were the people to be told that though Providence had
been favourable to them in the more abundant produce of
the seasons, yet it was possible that Corn may be too cheap
for the people.—(Loud cheering.)-11r. Canning, in his
speech of last year, had held out the prospect of an
ulterior modification of his measure, but that modification
he promised should incline in favour of the consumer—was
that promise observed in the Bill of that night ? Certainly
not. But there was a great discrepancy between Mr.
Canning 's language on the subject, and his subsequent
conduct, fur he gave up the principle of his Bill after he
expressed a hope that that House would not lay itself pros-
trate at the feet of the other House of Parliament—
(Cheering)—a sentiment worthy of him, not merely as a
patriotic Minister of the Crown, but as an independent
Member of that House. He should conclude by sup-
porting such an arrangement as should at the same time
secure protection to the landed interest, and consist with
the welfare of all the other classes.
Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE would not admit that
the temporary measure introduced last July, by Mr. Can-
ning, had a favourable effect on the British agricultural in-
terest. That it was net so beneficial would appear from
the fact, that the average price of wheat in July last was
61s. ; yet the price in February last was only 525., a fall
of 10s. a quarter since July; and that though bonded corn
was admitted to the market on a duty of 1/. 2s. Bd. at the
lowest, or 11. 18s. at the highest, yet, under these duties,
between five and six hundred thousand quarters of wheat
had been put into bond. Surely such a price for wheat
could not be said to be favourable to the British agricul-
turists ; nor would he agree in the assertion, that any mea-
sure for the benefit of the landed interest was sure to meet
encouragement in that House ;, though he hoped better
times were coining, an event which he was sure must ul-
timately take place, when the House remembered that corn
was cheapest when the landed interest was best protected.
He was convinced that the only thing wanted to make the
present measure perfect was some alteration of the ware-
house system, and of the manner of taking the averages,
and the 'Placing some bounty or drawback on the exporta-
tion of corn, points to which he should call the attention
of the House on a future occasion. The admission of
260,000 quarters of wheat last year would show that the
home interest required some further protection. The
present measure, though not entirely satisfactory to him,
he however considered better than that of last year.
Colonel SIBTHORPE contended that some protecting
measure for the British agriculturist was rendered indispen-
sable by the facts reported in the returns which he held in
his hand, and which he had received from excellent autho-
rity. In that return it appeared that large quantities of
foreign corn had been imported into Ireland and the Isle of
Man, and re-imported back again into England. The
quantity imported from Ireland, from January to March
of the present year, was no less than 164,1338 quarters.—
The amount imported into the post of London alone, from
Ireland, between the 10th and the 15th of March this year
was 54,383 quarters ; and the consequence of this influx
was, that the home corn could find no market. There
was at this moment iu bond 136,000 quarters of wheat;
11,000 of oats; 57,000 of barley, and 32,100 hundred
weights of flour; and the suns of duty on. corn for the
year ending January 1828, was no less than 750,0001.
Surely these facts fully proved the necessity of protection
for our own agriculturists.

Mr. HUSIZISSON, though he could not agree with
Hon. Members in the novel proposal to abstain entirely
from all discussion on a subject on the consideration of
which great interests were at stake, yet should forbear en-
tering into a very wide field of discussion, while he uttered
a few observations on the opinions of those Hon. Members
who professed to make no observationsat all on the subject.
(Laughter.) Surely the Hon. Member for Lincoln must
labour under some strange delusion when he could assert,
that a great quantity of corn had been smuggled into Ire-
land, and re-imported thence into England. The fact was,
that no foreign corn came into England in the course of
last year, but what was imported openly anti on payment
of the regular duty, and the reason why it was imported in
such quantities was, because it was wanted ; and for the
present year he was able to state to the House that no grain
was imported in the manner described from foreign coun-
tries through Ireland. Indeed, it was absurd to believe
for a moment, that there-could be any smuggling carried
on to such extent in such an article as corn. (Cheering.)
As to the of 1826 it was not only justified, but
demanded by the preceding circumstances, and as to the
result of it on home corn, though 300,000 quarters of
foreign corn were imported in the November of that year,
yet the price of British corn remained as high as under the ,
law of 1815. As to' the total sum of duties paid oa im-
ported corn in last year, the Hoh. Member who stated it
forgot that duty was paid on other articles than foreign
corn, for instance, on Canada corn ss. a quarter. The
Hon. Member for Somersetahire had laid much stress on
the alleged fact, that in certain weeks during which the
homy price of wheat was 515., foreign corn was imported
even under a duty of V. 2s. Bd. Now, what was the fact

—why, that in these weeks no foreign corn was imported
at all, the returns in the books being, fur the weeks alluded
to, nil, nil, nil. (Much cheering.) In truth the Hon. Mem-
ber carried his fears of a foreign invasion of corn to greater
extremes than circumstances at all justified. The came
Hon. Member had attempted to draw conclusions from the
fact, that the average price of wheat in July was 615.,
yet in February but 525. ; but surely that contrast was not
a fair one, when it was remembered that an abundant har-
vest intervened between the two periods, and that a de-
pression of price of the harvest was one of the natural
changes to be expected under a system of monopoly like
ours. But if the Hon. Member wished to obtain a just
view of the comparative prices of two periods, the right
method would be to take the corresponding periods in two
successive years, and compare the prices, and on this prin-
ciple he was sure that when next July would have come,
the price of corn would be high. Thos, aLso, the Hon.
Member fin. Kircudbright (Mr. Ferguson) is very much
alarmed on account of his countrymen (and I believe no
man in this House entertains a more sincere and zealous
affection for the interests (4 Scotland), under the impres-
sion that the proposition of my Right Hen. Friend alto-
gether overlooks their interest in barley and oats. But
does the Honourable Gentleman forget that in the course
of last year the scale of protection as to barley and oats,
considering their relative proportion to the price of,
and duty upon wheat, was considerably augmented ?-
-that the rate as to oats was front 21s. to 255., and us to
barley, from 30s. to 335. This rate, in reference to oats
and barley, was much higher than that upon wheat at6os.
I have taken the trouble to look to all the returns that
have been made upon occasions when we have opened the
ports under an Act of Parliament or an Order of Council,
and from these I find that at no time had the price of oats
risen so high as 255., although 255. was made the pivot,
upon the turn of which the law admitted oats to be
inr-
ported. My Hon. Friend opposite seems to think that
there is no difference between the scale now proposed by
try Right Hon. Friend near me, and the effect of an
amendment which was moved upon the law of last year,
by the Hon. Member for Dorsetshire. There is no diffe-
rence in one respect undoubtedly. The lion. Member for
Dorsetshire's amendment was this—he proposed to raise the
pivot price from 60s. to 6-is., lint he adhered to the scale
of ascending and descending duties. The difference in
favour of oats and barley, in the case put by the lion.
Member for Kircudbright, with reference to wheat, and
their relative pricem,would he as 325. instead of 265. to 605.,
and upon a descending scale, the difference would be still
greater. I really do wish, and would ask of my Hon.
Friend the Member for Bridgenorth, and of other Hon.
Gentlemen who have called on us to-night, to abstain
from all discussion, that they would, at least in the first
place, withdraw their opposition to-night to the resolution
of my Bight Hon. Friend.—(Hear, hear.)—They are
anxious to persuade the House to adopt resolutions in lieu
of it, differently framed, and having a different object ; but

I do think that, in fairness to this House, in fairness to
4sy
Right Hon. Friend, who has brought forward this a-
sure, in fairness to his Majesty's Government, and in fair-
ness to the country at large, Gentlemen who have such
Resolutions to propose, ought to produce them on the
present occasion, and not allow the Resolution of my Right
Hon. Friend to go forth to the country, these suggestions
of theirs remaining on your table. I cannot imagine any
thing more unfair than for an Honourable Gentleman,
on such an occasion as this, to lay upon your table his
own resolutions under such circumstances, protesting
against their present discussion.—(Hear, bear.)—Let us,
I say, have either a statement or an argument ; let us not
be left to intuition, or to what other means we can resort
to, to guess at the meaning and intention of those Gentle-
men, who will not themselves explain them to us. My
Hon. Friend has very briefly proposed to adopt such a
course, desisting at the same time from entering into
any statement of his reasons. lam not very much sur-
prised at this, for when lie tells us that my Right Hon.
Friend had propounded the Resolutions of last year ,in
the same terms—if this had been a re-statement of them
ipsissimis cerbis, he would have been equally opposed to
it—it is plain that the Hon. Gentleman must object to
the whole principle of the measure. Hereia consists much
of our difficulty, for I think it was his main objection to
this resolution, that it is a very complex one. For my
own part, I cannot see in what degree, as to the scale of
ascending and descending duties, it differs from the law of
last year. Last year you proposed a specific duty of 205.,
varying with the ;price of corn, until it at last vanished
into an almost imperceptible impost, as that price rose in
amount; and which, on the other hand, as the price de-
scended rose to a point which was considered to be suffi-
ciently high to prevent the importation of foreign corn.
Now the present proposition takes two grounds', upon
which the scale of last year is a little extended, namely, it
provides that at '7os. foreign corn shall come in at little
more than a mere nominal duty ; but again, that if the
price fall to 605., the duty shall be such as was proposed
in the law of last year, as shall either altogether prevent,
or considerably impede, the importation of foreign corn.
It differs from the law of last year as to the pivot point, as
it has been called, on which foreign corn shall come into
our markets—not abuudantly—not without some limita-
tions—not in a manner to inconvenience the British farmer.
1 am perfectly free to state that 60s. was the price at which
it was then proposed to give protection to the home grower
as far as might be possible, and that a point between 60s.
and 655. is the one How assumed at which it may so come
in—care being taken, that as the duty diminishes, the im-
portation shall take place sparingly, and in a stinted degree.
Now, in what respect does this proposition differ from that
of last year? It is to be remembered that the latter mite
into operation after a great change had been effected in the
general commercial system of the country, and while all
classes were still labouring under the effects of that change.
It was said, that on rec, nsidering the subject, in a future
Session of Parliament, we were to profit by experience, and
that exeerience has guided the framing of the very Bill which
is the subject of discussion this evening. 1 agree with my
.Right Hun. Friend that the value of that experience has
been rated more highly than it merited; but it is certainly
,impossible to deny the fact, that a quantity of foreign
corn, not less than 500,000 quarters, was imported,
and very rapidly too, at a price upon which the duty
exceeded 20s. Here, therefore, is a prima facie case,
to shew that a 20s. duty would not effect that purpose,
which was the avowed object of the Bill of last year,
namely, to prevent the simultaneous admission of large
quantities of foreign grain into our ports.—(Hear.)—An
attempt has therefore now been- made not to depart from
the principle of the measure of last year, but, without ex-
citing apprehensions and alarms, or creating serious incon-
venience to the community, to increase the amount of price
at which such corn shall be in future admissible ; and this
point has accordingly been raised to between 60s. and 644.
I say again, that in this there is no change of principle ;
for, from adhering to that principle, unless very peculiar
combinations of circumstances should arise, I am confident
no practical inconvenience would accrue; but the present
attempt has been made with a view of combining the pro-
tection afforded by the scale of the last year, a little raised as
to the price of the grain, with the advantages which we
must secure to the country, in respect of the power to im-
port foreign corn. I would add, that I believe many causes
did operate last year to produce an excessive importation,
in a very short period of time, which are not likely to ope-
rate again. Here was this Act passed in November, 1826,
which gave the power of admitting any quantity of foreign
wheat at a duty of 265. per quarter. Why, Sir, it cannot
be denied that there was a much larger importation of fo-
reign corn in consequence, than would otherwise have
taken place. It is equally undeniable, that had,a Bill to
the effect of the present resolution been then in operation,
it would have prevented many of the inconveniences which
at that time accrued from the state of the law. We all know
that that Bill passed through this House, but was met else-
n here by some proposals which caused it to be abandoned.
—(Hear,given a longer time thin they
forr impression
produced country.
on the market by these causes. We find that the conse-
quenceNo was, that the price after the harvest still tended to
would have had in which to convert their stock of corn
rt.r)a—LTl bear.)—The
werere result
in li
the lt of this was, that parties con-
cernedinto money. Of this circumstance they naturally took the
advantage. Again, in the August following, we were
blessed with the prospect of an abundant harvest, and then,
again, in the course of a very few weeks, further quantities
of,fvorle
evignmultecaotuswi
consider
what e
rapidly
tugs shippedtl eim pes
produce large importations. My Hon. Friend has well
and truly said, that we are to deal with this question as a
question of fact, and like practical men, and in order to
settle in what mode, and upon what principles, the law
which shall regulate a trade of such vital importance to
the country shall in future be established and governed.
If we see what is the impression•produced on the public
mind out of doors, we must not overlook that impression
in determining and applying the principles of such a
measure. The principle upon which we are now to legis-
late, I am not afraid to say, I take to be that which my
Right Hon. Friend has laid down, namely, something like
an award between the exaggerated hopes of one part of
the community, and the groundless apprehensions of
another. I consider that we ought not to hesitate to give
our support to a measure calculated to produce such good
effects; I think it would tend to produce the settlement
of a long litigated question, which has already produced
this evil effect—that one class of the people has unhappily
conceived the notisn that its feelings and interests upon
this subject have been sacrificed to those of another class.
(Hear, hear.)—The view of this House ought to be to
do impartial and effectual justice between all claws of the
people.--(Cheers.)—Sir, it is upon these grounds that
the present motion has been brought forward. I never
cm agree that it is the best possible one which could be
brought under the notice of the House; but in reference
to my view of the state of this question—to the state of
.
the agricultural interest—to the state of our currency.
and to the state of public feeling among different portions
of the people —I am most desirous that it should pass into a
law, persuaded that if it do, it will be well calculated to allay
the angry impressions to which I have adverted, as perva-
I
ding many of them. One word more, Sir, in respect to the
thethe misery
prejudice sustained by capital embarked in agriculture and
land ; which that law of 1815 has, in the course of the
declaration of the Hon. Member for Somersetshire, (Sir T.
Lethbridge) that he adheres to the law of 1815, because of
the very great encouragement which he conceives that it
extended to the agriculturists.. But I, Sir, do lament from
occasionedthe bottom
by
yf
tmheyflstiocutiu'atthieonevcidisPrtile'eesi,gassneed
' and
consequent
last twelye years, occasioned throughout this kingdom.—
(Hear, hear. )—.I am ready to acknowledge any error which
experience may have shown me that I committed in the
course I took with regard to that Bill.—(Cheers.)—But
am satisfied that I could make it appear, whenever a fit..
ting opportunity may offer, that it has produced these
losses, that it has caused these fluctuations, and instead of
benefitting the landed interest to the extent which the Hon.
Baronet supposes, it has in that interval caused the prices
of produce to be lower than they would have been, had
a corn trade almost free and unfettered subsisted in the
mean time.—(Hear.)—l shall not go into the argument
of the Hon. Member for Suffolk, who has endeavoured
to show that the law of last year has effected such
grievous injuries. Ile complains of the mode in which
the averages have been taken ; and so does the Hon.
Member for Kirkcudbright. Now, at least, they have
been taken precisely as they were taken before the passing
of that law ; and _without pausing to defend the principle
of averages generally, we must, fin- the present purposes
take them into the account; we must take similar qUanti.-
ties in attempting to arrive at general conclusions of this
a awe. The objection of my Hon. Friend, however, ie
very curious; he complains that lie sent a quantity cornof
last week up to London, which he sold at a
wat a
priceh no
higher than 60s. See, said my Hon. Friend,
horrible effect your averages produce.
Why, Si the
average price, you will find, upon reference to
the Gazette
'
of last week, was 525., and toy Hon.
Friend sells his
that from this
corn at 60s. (Hear, hear.) It is true,
price of the
llowances in
shape of brokerage or commission, of some sort or other,
which, I presume, every man must expect to pay to the
individuals who dispose of his property to his advantage.
Still it is perfectly clear that my Hon. Friend must have
obtained a price considerably above t 1 e average. Now,
really I must think, that at least this system of averages
works well, when he disposes of Isis wheat in the market

at eight shillings per quarter above the -peke at whisk
average rate is putted. (A laugh.) I very. beartg/
congratulate him on the fact. lam glad he can brig "
the market an article so good as to secure such a price;
and I sincerely wish that my Won. Friend may never bs
reduced to dispose of his agricultural produce to great
disadvantage. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel SIBTHORPE observed, that what the Welt
Hon. Gentleman had stated in respect of oats supplied o°
true criterion to guide the judgment of the Committee.—
The year in which the importations took place, was otter
in some parts of this country, of absolute drought, in,
which the scarcity of hay was most remarkable. -He hag
himself given as much as ten guineas per load ; and the
consequence of that scarcity was, that oats were last year
employed by the farmers in the county, for example, with
which he was more immediately connected, as food, for al-
most every kind of domestic animal.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE, in explanation, observed that
the quantity of foreign wheat which he had adverted to as
having been thrown into the market under a high duty was
8,700 quarters, nn the 15tEr November, which paid a dus
of 21. Os. Bd. a quarter. The larger quantity of cora
taken out of bond on the 27th of December last, paid a
duty of 1/. 4s. ed. ; the second quantity of li. es. Bd. ;
but these 8,700 quarters paid a duty of 2/. Os. Bd.
Mr. FERGUSSON, in explanation, had understood the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grant) to intimate that no-
thing more would be done in respect of oats than was al-
ready done by the law passed in the last Session.
Mr. A. BARING thought that the complaint, of the
Right lion Gentleman who had lately spoken, as to the
conduct pursued by some Members in that Committee,
were rather unreasonable. The Right Hon Gentleman
should consider that these Resolutions had been the subject
for many days past of anxious consultation with the public.
—(Hear, hear.)—For his own part he should have been
much surprised if the Committee had not looked a little
more nearly than was usual on the occasion of reading
such propositions from the Chair, in order to see how they
bore upon this most important question. Although the
principle of the Resolution might be the same, the altera-
tion made in it from the law of last year was considerable,
particularly as to the advance in the scale of prices. It was
certainly impossible for any body to have opened the quells
thin with more candour than the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman : but it was apparent from the manner of that state-
ment, that before it was submitted to the Committee
a hard battle had been fought to reconcile the conflict-
Mg prinsiplee of this and of the former measure. His
Right Honourable Friend who spoke last (Mr. Hus-
kisson) had, with somewhat less of candour, de-
fended this proposal, by reflecting on the manufacturing in-
terest upon the one hand, and upon the agricultural inte-
rest on the other; and he had concluded by telling the
Committee that the measure, such as it was, had not his
entire approbation. As for himself, he (Mr. Baring)
would acknowledge to the Right Hon. Gentleman that his
case was very like that of a person who was only trans-
ported, after expecting to •be hanged. Various rumours,
of an alarming nature, were afloat out of doors, as to the
character of the measure now brought forward ; and he
was very glad that it was no worse than it really appeared
to be. He had anticipated some system like that of a re-
munerating price—that old proposition which the Hon.
Baronet (Sir Thomas Lethbridge) had declared he would
always defend in that House as being so well adapted to
protect the agricultural interest. He should for one de-
precate the discussion of a principle which could not confer
one iota of protection in reality, but which, if persevered
in, might one day produce a fayaine—(hear)--owing to the
absurd prejudice of the agriculturists against permitting
the establishment of what might be considered a perma-
nent depot for the supply of grain at a distance of 1,000 or
1,500 miles from their own market. When he saw
attempts making from day to day to impose restraints upon
the supply ofcorn for a population so vast and so increasing
as the population of these kingdoms--the necessity of
which supply was evident from this, that year atter year
%ye had been blest with abundant harvests, yet were still,
year after year, importing foreign corn—he was astonished
at such propositions being persisted in. Looking at that
population, to the numbers and the condition of the labour-
ing classes, could auy man of common sense, or of common
humanity, be jealous--of what ? Of permitting a depot,
such as he spoke of, to exist in his neighbourhood, for the
supply of all these people with corn. Whenever the Hon.
Baronet might execute his threat of bringing the subject
before the House, there could be no difficulty in meeting
him upon it; nut even now, after the last lucubration, of
that extraordinary theorist and crotchet-monger, who was
always so ready to sacrifice all other considerations to souse
favourite abstract principle, and into whose clutehes ,/se
(Mr. Baring) was so sorry to perceive that his Right
on. Friend was once more about to fall,,—(Hear.)—
What was the present state of this country.? • Those who
knew the condition of the manufacturing districts would
not contradict him when he asserted that in all the general
branches of manufacture there was, perhaps, sufficient
work for the labourers in such branches; but the wage.
paid them for such work they could but just manage to
exist on. The working part of that community, therefore,
being in this situation, the masters were enabled to carry
on their business to an extent barely sufficient to make
some small returns upon their capital. In the meantime"
these poor people were in this condition; they were under
the necessity, under such circumstance', of paying 525. for
their wheat. Who could say what might be the conse-
quence of getting this already enormous price up, by pos-
sibility, to 645. ? The gentlemen belonging to the agri-
cultural interest, for many of whom he entertained a most
sincere respect, should remember that the only effect of
realising their extravagant expectations would be to
pull that blouse down about their own ears.—(Hear, hear.)
Was it not obvious that this was not a question of the ma-
nufacturing interest, or of any other insolated interest.!
When his Hon. Friend (the Member for Suffolk), drove
wTwihtehirceh starvingtwashe Legislature fsnliar his team into Ipswich, what good would the high prices
liatmtuer of
farmers
protection, andcould not go in A
nei g
ag
wasit
o r
_
obtained for his corn produce to him, if he drove through
a markete
called,a ,
beyond
hear.)
h
thronged
question of this kind ; and any man who, under the cir-
cumstances of this country, could bring himself to advise
such a step, must have lost not only all feeling and princi-
ple, but all common sense. He was ready to go as far as
any man in providing for the agricultural interests, and in
maintaining them in that competency, and condition, and
r
prosperity, the maintenance of which was so essential, not
only to the good order, but to the morals of the community
at large; but 1;e never would encourage the vain and unwar-
rantable expectation that they should be kept op at the
expense and by the injury of all ether classes. He cona
fessed that., bad as the old law was, he had great doubts
whether it Was not much better than this now proposed,
or than that law which the lion. Baronet thought would
have procured the farmer better prices. Any thing was
better than a state of law which, professing to impose
duties which should force high prices, had had the effect
always of producing low prices. And why? Because
as long as it existed, Government had found itself from
time to time under the necessity of permitting import's.
tions of large quantities of foreign corn.

Quarters.
Last year there were imported of Foreign Corn 2,600,000
The year before that
2,250,000
The year before that
1,000,00 U
Since this Corn Law had been resorted to, the Minis-
ter, at the end of every Session, if the weather has hap-
pened to be a little too dry or a little too wet, or prices a
little too low or a little too high, has not dared to trust
the chances of the season, but has very properly thought
it necessary to let in the foreign corn. Alany more
mischiefs had ensued to the agriculturists than they
could possibly hare experienced under a well regulate
Corn Bill. The law, as it now stood, was a despotic law.
'llverytil they reached a point at
limitations it assigned had the
ei in
ercetspoer
foonf.ing grain.p
priersgr„in became immediately admissible. Ile
should say, that any price exceeding 603. would be an in-
which foreign
dication of incipient distress. The moment the price got
beyond 60s the duty ought to decline rapidly. If at 60s.
thought that it MO a scale whiedi ought no longer to there was duty of 245. and at 611. a duty of 23.. he
;
con-
tinue. His own impression was, that if the price were to
rise beyond 60s. there would be that degree of alarm in the
country which would be productive of the most serious
consequences. He could not say, therefore, that be much
,roved of the measure now proposed, or that he consi-
dereda it preferable to the old law.
11Ir. Secretary PEEL--Sir, I vote for this measure
simply because I think that, profiting by the experience of
the last few month., this Bill suggest,
an equitable adjust-
ment of the -respective claims of the producer and the
consumer.—(Hear, hear.)—This House, in the last Session
of Parliament passed a measure which was in effect pre-
cisely the same as that of my Bight Hon. Friend ; but
which imposed a auty on corn of 20r. the quarter when-
ever the average price should appear to be 60s. It is im-
possible to lose sight tattle fact it prohibited corn from being
taken out of bond, such as had been already warehoused,
until the average price should have reached 601. I allude
to this fact only for the purpose of sheaving, not that I am
apprehensive of its consequences,
but in order to slew
that such a difficulty did exist, and does now exist. (elf
this I am quite satistied,that if thelastGovernment had thought
that Ulf modification of the measure which they introduced
would have secured the acquiescence of the other house of Par-
liament, my late Right Lion, Friend, now no more, would
have immediately consented to it. Ido happen to know that