The Sun.
London, England, 1817-05-09 00:00:00

EXTENTS IN AID.

Mr.An's DAVIS presented a petition from
Bristol, Irom certain Merchants, creditors of a
bankrupt there, complaining of the operation of
Extents in Aid, by which they had been prevented
from recovering their debts.
The .Cumiceta,ott tit the EXICHEQUEIt said, that
though the measure respecting Extents in Aid
h;kdr been delayed by an unfortunate event, he
ti listed to lie }stile in a few days to-ratbmit a Bill
to the house on the .Subiect.
Mr: W. Ssirru-said; - trom, one cause or other,
nothing had been done to bring forward-this most
desirahlc measure from the Bth of February to the
Bth of Alay. Suck was his sense of the iM-
portance of the subject, from the repeated com-
munications which he had.received from all quar-
ters, that if the Measure were not soon introduced;
ha should move, for.leave to bring in a Bill himself!
Mr..Tttosisort said, under the colour of the law
respecting Extents, as it now stood, the most
scandalous acts of injustice were perpetrated. In
Newcastle and its neighbourhood WO Kxtents, he
had been informed, had beau issued in ,one day,
in the apprehension that some ,Legislative rues.-
supe would be introduced.
4r; L'obititAarr mentioned' a case in Berkkshive,
in which, by two Extents in Aid., and an'Extent
in Chief, the whole of a bankrupt's estate, to :the
amount of 20,0091. had been swept away, and
not a farthing had been left to the other credicor3.
Such it system was destructive 'to trade, and in-
duced • the people to' think that the law. was-in-
tended for their oppression and not for their pro-
tection,

APPOPITMENT OF' Mt. HEWES-
Mr. liev;NlVrT said, he MSC 41 plllsllBllCe of the
notice he bad given, to bring under the view and
consideration of Parliament the half-pay whkh
the Hight Hon. Gentleman and his colleagues had
thought tit to bestow' on the late Commissary-
Gemeral. He. lrtu not the hollow of bring; at: all
acquainted with that Gendentati4 and he bilged
to he understood, that whatever oplylino his ft iends
might have of him, it hall no,iutluencq whatever
upon his mind. It seemed that this Gentleman had
entered into the service of the public is tin Year

~.~

t 1798, and had beers Private Secretary
E'irat Lord of the Treasury and Chaucellar cf,the
xcliequer. ' He
bad, in fact, gone through s
series of promotions. Early in 1811 he bad been
appointee a Comptroller of Army Accounts, oldd
and the effects of
on the Ist Oct. in that year he -mil °Pr"
Commissary-General. There was no dots t Mt
fEmil 1793 to 1802 the Commissariat parttime°
to the Isle
had been conductee' in a very improper anner,
severely felt , RS, to produce remonstrances orta
complaints from those distinguished Generals, Sir
this nlistuanagement had bern!.:
John Moore and the Duke of Wellingtn. P!
vcrnment at length consulted with Colonel, 07.
pSrirovliiVigilltittltentni(!in7itgloetitn,eriotnoftittielisheis)tertauletanr)tesiolti,
oh;.,
lie received the appointment. It MIS 110 t 00111110;
to say
that ke hail perfOrMed his dot in a I°,s'
able . manner. In 1811, however, that Cerciotr'
mail was. removed hour his situation, and "n;
Hereies was appoioted to it,. 1031:13 lie 11"11 c
that .office so well regulated; that it reseinblel" (lii
they possessed a giant's strength, could'bilirlte'mo";
of t hose immense mechanical machines,thatt'll
Nit infant's arm.• 13ut %O at was therawarooi --,0
o
‘t:ere 25001. a-year,
"el Gordon, by whose ludicionsAeasuret,olor
tlice had been brought to this state of'Perfdctbio •
General, which
He quitted his sitUatioll, the emoluments of,:ivotti
to fill that otQ"rtcy' 'O,ll
he loses no less than iOO/. 0-year, noel h'it°9o.
produces him only 1800145° gi.,.
ficient ditty to perform. When ARA/0111.m
tires from the office of Cottanissary -Geoul":4is
has half-pay given to him of 13551.: Y. t,
rr, ti;4
lappointed to another place, resulting 11iiio,
ate arrangement with respect to the i/l. oil.
or Ilgthing.
of 15•00ta year, making together, after sal"c,,,, a
deductions, 2700/, a year, for the small scri.i_ 0,
five years as Cummissary-Gettert.l, awl bill •
years a 'Clerk. He receives this pay of ll' pit
doing nothing, and 15001. More for do (snit
was kin office of a civil nature, and that it!, :10.
ceseary Gentlemen bli-ottld be paid Loutor(l°,.,g,,,itt
duty; but be begged leave to soy, l,' tulle
he would deny
a civil office.
question not to be go vet' It ed by emy preeeue°, 1101
He kuew it won'! be sild, iii:
or
witted from Treasury to Treasery, but ffibilietrri
ought to be tried by the merits al"' ,P°.o, alit
vices of the Gentleman himself. 13'4 14°1 ftfif
19iliaet c
o thisl.r,ool
iths.seieon°eftsCoPrelluillSiStallroC)Yciiiiiii
(litirY, had asked him if his office wail 100.0'
nature ; and lie said "NO r. alui laenitels3°:
that the Comtnissary-inChief was Gai-lbarro'`:
Officer of the Staff, and was subject la outer
i"''.
s.ions of the Alutiny Act, the same aS. bohtill
!Retry
,men. It was fair then, that
`aphid .10. ete
an office of a ,military nature he ,t psi 0° '
titled to half-pay. 'llion look at "47:01.servil
given to Commissaries-in:Chief inlisc-distilni°
in all parts of the globe, 'serriug,sin„grili of'',l
unhealthy climates, exposed to ad t"ef roe 0,47,
and land, sharing all the. fatigae' (10.00 Ocs"',„'
soldiers, and by whose exections 01,'r, , of OP:"
were enabled to perform such 1)0)(11W:011y iotd;
and to overcome difficulties ,a1)1;:ri. Get,'ll)cljles'
mountable. Mr..Bergttoon an" 4)-4'oly "..- 'so
of this, description had retired (''' ~,,,010(.,‘,0,.!
. year, but the flight Hon. Golden: ~i'Lo
estimated the services tl f Mr. Ile,friea.cat°l(,)f,,ll3,io
tlen;lan, sitting soul; ',a 000 01 rs, tbresn'', 0
'Porn, at the 'Treasury, on the
,vetes'oluin `itit,ii'.',
patronage and favour, receives ''`' ,i, soloan't it
a year i his half-pay being twiee",,;-A reaciie`'lift
Pak tieneral in the array, evil° flat{
Pc•l'o/'
rank by bard service, fighting our ''''-een by 00. , ,
all 0. er the . wot Id. 1t 4'olll'l ber: of el'll'iait''
• he :., I inures, th'at the sfreasorY acts
,truths lii C
was untitled to this sum on the gr,,ll'tiot thei,„i'l"
-vices ; and it might' be conceive° ~.00111"1",,-0
templated a vett '
another albstiotageous appoiatmeni riot 'it
i A ree ~,t Pe.,
not so; for the very serve dor 0.. , so cp
other appointment on the Civil Fist ;A et slot
,services of . this person were estialat:oo, (P,
be helieveel__.
cult), in Trocuring
y distant dayefo.le u:, hat 11,1
than 27001. a year. lie roust c°tlieslooPdio
rieWed this appointment with gre:uld be 11,614 a :
lie might say there w'''t odas" it"
talent, who crtuld e
-ive every security te be li
~,. 01 , al',
performance of the ',duties, wl") of ww.•►:
all oat la 1
to undertake cheat for the smo. that
n i In/ gad
year. Dot he would go fartherit" if.p.ir
'the la' ei
former office was a military one, of IV
tllBOl perpanS ''.l ogp ',
~
to have fallen in on his- acceptaneeloigelol3
He could not but compare the 1..,,0r iii,r.e, ,
shown. to an individual willl'the ;410eir ti
ii it.-
towards ,Officers whoa have pos eater 0,1,ic iv
the service.- lie would read ao ...to reg.c.i k
half-pay, if they
to . disqualify poor Lieutenat! ,"sitasnofri ~
produces them above lOW- a-Year: iota thiot( ~,
the country called for `taro ingtlgYi 41014 0 '
hold any otticlajoesitio;sl, ~
ject. it was in the month f Angs:,7icr, o°lol
appointment took place ; ti.1htie,;.0.0501,,‘ pe
an universal cry of poverty an" "',.00r (Ile
.1.;',1 I i,l
meetings were held to. considerti."i4 inotlii:,itt ,
misery could'be alleviated. At "roner to`',4ol,
• Right Holt. Gentleman thOttglit.Xo,lof ~I, dig
this individual the enormous so';4loyot,4 .-,,
year ;. it looked a& if Atioister',blie atgVott, :It
selVes in considering bow the 11.),.•10-0`1,411 ''
be doled out to their fav'our'ites Its
,it'bel i itatii', to 1,11
was not his intention to NI" i lb,rooghto, e, .4
House any louger ; but 1)0;4 _lode 104,01 iit
ject before them; be should coll.' c Coe re iv,
ing, " That the allowing tb!:„l.4ortliec' I.:)tio°' 141'
General, on the abolition of
.I.c"t'iri„kt pe"0011, -1
one half of his sarary as a !ieratioazif,'so ,
giving him an eiseessiOe rent4l:lolDce o,' do pi:: .
.. permitting bitn also tP 1!()1(/ 3.,ditore °riad :41
year, is an improvident espel!,..cdot stn, • !,,i
'money, and .establishes a yr" .vp illf;
' the public interest." ootteP or:
Pon el e.'
The CHANCELLOR of the the , „gd, 'it
110 In ti :.
saying, Ite•was willing to 3,.tfor tile I,i ors 1 S.
• Gentleman all possible cee",!)o,o,lll'' ia 141 li
of his motives in bringing,'‘,,,, o.y Qt
lio', ' 1
but lie trusted what he bail !..,b0 )1011:0thil4i: 1
every impartial Gentleman „7..cottrY l'to frri,, 1
in cite arrangement by the `.4.lofrotiblooplo", i
been done. but what vros Oc"'.' Gentlea,s f',' .. .
. • • The 060-. sec° )I,'. .1
rigorous,instrce. •
stater?' tbe Clerlt Ile4- i
in his opinion, fairly ._ 0, 0 ~. tiel,,,, P 1
, H.erries by designating i'l'iiiece t'ote iliwe t' :1-,
more. than eighte.enJes" hoe,. .- ot fi) I*#' - 0
heestlie a lettvant of the p 1.1.... cellor oa 1
Ghat' ft)- .'t
tetwards, when he (the ~„erctsii
°benne!) was appointed ,•''' .

r
be livernne his Oriva:e. Sreretaty. tie w 4
'' l'Yivate Secretary to Mr. NI Leval ; 'llllll
le llon. Gentleman must ktinvv• very little
important duties Of bitch all individual.
tescribed his employment merely as.t hat
• It was a situatiint ot the greatest
and one that in all times had usually
' Promotion and etnolumentit. lint,
treeing into any comparisons of the re-
ieli other persons hail obtained at other '0 had executed such important duties,
('"IY say, that it did not appear to hint-
'et'lleolan Was at all overpaid by what
ilcine for Ilerries, hint.
been f=or Mr. as he h 44
ned o, by the discernment of Mr.
to be his Private Secretary. He had.:
Proceeded to he one of the ComPtroliers'
inceounts, at a salary of 15001. a-year.
"r 1811 lie was in possession of this lie resigned it to become Commissary
lot on account of the removal of Col..
, the purpose, as the Honourable Gen-
-4111'411, but because that Gallant Officer
1149'601 the appointment, lii order:, 'lit resume his military career, which
'ongetlial with his wishes, and which
tell w.ith regret when the situation of
r was proposed to him by Mr. Per-
lontitat as given to Colonel Gordon
P materially from that held by Sir
ror), the duties of which related only
la,''') and bad nothing to do with our
' hot' Colonel Gordon had to per.
!)1 duties ot both, which entailed
tlart;ed responsibility. Mr.lierries
"'Hee with all its arduous labours and
''
raid he held it till 1816, when it
that a more. economical arrangement
"re by re-
is isthe Continsariat as
beginning Ot the war, kwar, in the an-
thlt Vatt -of it to the Treasury. He
linnourable Gentleman, that by
ittelit 11,0001, a-year bud been saved
° by a redUction ot 42'Officers'frotn
Thddislintent. A still furtiti,r saving
',l)Yiore re-uniting te wle of e
toe Treasury, as it wash o
iu former
Air. Herries was in his frienlashiP
•; hat he had not been so fortunate as
to his advancement in life. What
114/"esselli be was indebted for to
-I -'"'i surely it could not be denied
'elllol tvas entitled to the considcra-
l"';Ys whets it was recollected that
tvi;',lel; the father" of the voltioteer sys-_
toili, the country had derived that
st'Y spirit that bad enabled us to,
the threats of itiva 8104, and ''''''
'Y led t,) 11 by' which
tose g
I)reat results ts ail been
signalized all over the
4'ol entered on the office of Comoth"
lit a time the most arduous and int-
,'l ihat had ever occurred in this
"'ere lie (the Chancellor of the Etc-
tll,ll, \Viten his retirement came.
'it appeared to be elear,-that'a*
III"!
1° half-)lily from. not-being a
' there could be no way of ;emu-
wti'l,i 11.1 by adopting some other mode'
'tilll'il that be ought to have a cum-:
Ant ,
16,A ttiltxiceeditig one-half of his SI.
, ''I:I., Ile WKS deemed to have site.
vleiitt:,lll'lS" been,- eighteen years in the
.'llitri„ fttiring which dine lie had filled,
chttil 4'4 nectinktions. He was, there-
,t dr) i-
hill, ..tire with one half of. his sa-
. lig,. he consideration, that if he
',id 11,^1:11 to the performance of . public
tvhbje income was not to exceed
~, .0 lie now 1,•.1 by his late
',4dint. 0 Kan.,
v 0,,
t, It could liardly be expected
iliiiie:',4r. -Herrie; should! take upon
Civil Ctlaelted to the ottiece of•Atitli-
'44,li 14r. for an inerease of income of
flt ' That Office 'had been appointed
tin ft
it .oily. 111 consideration of the sob-
leev,„'elion that it, was the only wa
A.
ratliture of the Civil List could
ti„terlit Measure had proved effectual,
'' 1011, . the old system. there bad con-
no CX•
ikely 1,11:11'411 ekCCSa of expence,
led 1
ice since the change to which he
tti it,',ll'',;leen made. For this Parli4-
tertio!_thaalted rather than Mr. lierries
, 'eat L. .
, „,,ti apt but it iniist be seen, , that it
14'44.00 seen named Auditor of the
tli4t
~?er Person must have been iv-
rtio- "Intim' and be knew of "°'
re fie floe i ' .
4441 I • .( fill It with advantage to
ltd'rilit-a,1,.,1 * `',113-.racter, talents, and ex-
ut tl ; trill) the world. This Oentle".
.4.c the I.)rilint
Ititit,ll tray,
nee, had exerted himself
' 141 ""'l the cod had consider-
. a ~., ty. I,i„, ~ , country
41tr'illiit ~t:1 ' I,lnotirs, but when the goes-
rht ly,'lliti,h.,:i.`",leraeion be ought to receive
ilatliiis tier,i?.','"ll, Ite.thottglit it necessary
ktv-i!'" lii, 1 t,4 illOre' distinctly before the
4'„ (i'iotll„tfe't tiolle. • The appointments
I't ,-:' 411,1,, : tind Mr. Ilerries had been
ii.i '''ti I.' '4 ever • the On
1 itift 6a the
.._y respect same.
:t„llit th.reac, I,,,'"ulect t there certainly ap-
;1;1441411 uldi,i(l.i.‘":ten them, but the dut.i,es, ilkt‘t, l'• in , s had to perform varied
,Set k,eet.e the :icier to chew this, he would
t 41.41 is ttis
forf which former Com-
01t, "hie!,
%%1,4'1 ato account, and what
'l:ttlivb. !re to heaccounted fprin/Mr.
0,1,,5'i1l ilertinount during the last year,
r`" 1 cia " rite office ~,tilli it) ' !,0001 eof Commissary-
-1, i. 1111,,t • In the last year of. hits
,4,4• tq r tli ri"ee, they. -amounted to
),,i.16./.11 9,0004;t Year or Sir IV. Gordon
iN,,)‘!tit,, IVher`z having: increased' more
',11„ :41, . ft- ' ivlr. ilerties became Com-
14".bte,, "111 the ~.., '' the
1114 ' txte n41'13110113 of
tili tttilt , I,l‘leti to so many parts of
1,4017,t.„ it ~(tuitonal expenditure was
14 ',1,0001 ainettlited during the year
"Ititli„lltkri.eh tyl;lintt...l in the year 1815, the
'ast, 4'l tlie sit`''''lnnlssery-General had
l;,, l Cidrn "f 15 873 0001 When
l.ttt:l i'l 147,41 °onion' antl'Al r..lerries
isilti,e.4) tii, l'nint of view h tl ought
ll 'll t r" th' ' e I •
nu i
'i lilt ltebt, klt there was no dif-
t,,t their nt their rank of office, was
lt, ‘qt tr rerlitir , . e. it
Itt).l,i Jsparit lie leretton should be the
kti!ilti‘in
v:V tweet the ditties which
taut
. 49
I° grV4t. Mr. Herries
!':. 1° that ti -
°alb for upwards ot
..,.„,,.

. ,
10,031,9101. of money. -Mitt enly liect he to pro
v,,tlciiers, from persons acting oil theit 'own
revinisiiiility to prove the application of the sinus
of tvhicli Ire bad to give an account, but he was
personally much employed- in the laborious ditties
Of his, sittratiork- Towards the close of the year
8-12, and in the year 1513, when the war assumed
a new character, in consequence of the notch.
'Expetlitiou to Russia, it became necessary not
only to provide military, but also pecuniary
means for an almost unlimited 'exertion, lie
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer), at the period
which he referred to, had had the honour to pro-
pose measures to that House, which had been,
carried. into effect .(as he thought with great ad-'
vantage to the country), and which had provided
for unlimited exertions, and for a very consider-
able time. Such. measures however would have
been adopted in vain ; they could have effected
nothing, if softie way were not discovered of bring-
iti resources of this country to Particular:
places at the proper time.. Of those tv.ro reinem-,
bered the,. debates which took place in that House
ten years ago, he would ask if it was then sup-
posed that 'by any effort of activity a sum of
20;000,000/. could -be realised for this cotintry.
on the Continent, in one year > This could not be
answered in the affirmative; yet when the scarcity
of bullion had increased, arid when the exchanges
mad become. more unfavourable to this country,
under circumstances unparalleled in history—
when it was the object of England to unite the
armies of all Europe against France, Mr. Herries
tteeeeded in contriving the machine by which
this great object was triumphantly accomplished.
Be sent, proper persons to the several parts- of
Europe to nrtlie the necessary arrangements, and
these were so well adjusted, that in no instance
had any of the military operations, their in pro-
gress, been retarded by a want of specie. Wherever
the armies of our'Allies advanced, there the re-
sources of England were to be found ; and
wherever our own army or navy was directed to
proceed, Abundant supplies were provided. None
of our warlike operations, extensive as wits their
theatre, had failed for want of pectin Ary means.
This was-in a great measure to be ascribed to the
activity and judicious care of Mr flerries. After
this statement, would it he said that the services
of that Gentleman did not merit to be liberally
rewarded.? He contended this was necessary in
the case of an individual, appointed as he had
.been toofficesdf great confitknee and importance,
and in which he bad acquitted himself with equal
ability and honour. If such a course were not
pursued hereafter, Government would have 'great
tlifficulty in finding, persons wild could safely be
entrusted with the expenditure of millions. lie
certainly thought his retiring allowance of 1350/.
in addition to the income of the oflice,he might
now hold, was but a fair reward for his services.
This was his sincere opinion ; as such he Submit.-
tech it. to the House. Whatever their decision on
the question before theta might be, of this at
least he was sure, that what be had done in the
ca.se of Mr. !ferries would ever stand justified to
leis own conscience and his own heart.
Mr. TIERNEY readily assented to all the panegy-
rics that had been pronounced on Mr. Berries—
he would Willingly allow that he bad performed
his duty faithfully and well '; but the question was,
whether the remuneration had not been totally
disproportioned to his services*. Without calling
the transaction' a job, or using any offensive ex-
pressions, he would say that either Mr,. Berries
had received too melt, or every other public man
had been grossly neglected. Allowing that, in
his confidential capacity, Ire had acted zealously,
'mud discharged his'duty faithfully, still there rould
exist no' good reason for giving 'a man 2,7001.
a-year merely because he Was Private Secre-
tary to a Minister. Mr. [lorries, indeed,' had
had his. reward • almost immediately on per-
forming the service, for he had been ap-
pointed Comptroller of Army Accounts, with a
salary of 1,600/. a-year. This 'situation Mr. Ber-
ries had resigned, but it was his own fault, and
on so doing he ought to have been apprised, of
what probably he was already aware, that he had
accepted a temporary situation of hiOter vhlue
than the perillailtlit one he had resigned, but that
the difference of value must make up the difference
in interest. He could see no reason why a MEWS
merits must be estimated by the amount of money
for which he was responsible ; his Hon. Friend
oppesite, the Paymaster of the Forces (Mr. Long),
had been responsible for Much larger sums than
Mr. Berries, and yet his salary- wads only 20001:
a year. He would not call it a job, brit he
would- call it a wasteful expenditure of the-pub-
lic money, and one which must disguit every
other Man in office who Was not equally well
compensated for his services. There was the
Prime Minister, who was responsible for every
thing; what, therefore, ought Iris remuneration to
be.? and yet the Finance Committee recommend-
ed, in consideration of five years services, that the
Crown should be enabled to give a retiring pen.,
had of Jute been talk-
ing of 3,0001.--,. The House
so( much of millions, that they appeared to
despise hundreds t But how many petitlemen
of large landed properties in the country would
not esteem ihimself very fortunate in being en-
abled to procnre half this allowande to Mr.
Berries, and hoar disgusted' must those Gen-
tlem' en be. to find 2,700/. a-year lavished on a
Clerk of 'the Treasury He expreSsed his .opi-
nion that:: the Auditorship of the Civil List was urn.
necessary, or, if necessary, Would be well paid at
5001. a year. No accounts on the Civil List were.
audited but those of the Chamberlain, the Lord
Steward, and the Master of the Horse, amounting
altogether to 209,0001. a year, and this tritlitig
Service, from which no advantage could result, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer thought proper to
reward. with 1,5001. a year. Was there,.he would
osic, any alike of art equal
value abolished on the
suggestions of theFinaneeCommittee . (" tete
• ,_ _
was," from the Ministerial Bendles.l---11Jen,
said Mr. Tierney; they were useless, and ought to
have been ,abolished before; but no office is ever.
abolished until another can be had of equal amount,
that the patronage of Ministers might suffer No
diminution. When Mr. Berries vivreatdiSdecfir:etatriyil .I_et os
the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
and' for no
stanfoch business, and yet hielhbeonart only 3001.
a yaar,, botnOW be receive( ,
other reason than because he was some yieiro,uisoelddelid.
It was a rank-and a foul job,-and if the

)t. expyrss their rondenination or it, lie trusted
the (multi). would express to the House, at the
proper season, its seisse of their catidiict.—(llC'ar 1)
Lord CAsTLeattsou would not follow the Right
lion. Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) through the Whole
of his speech, for be discussed not only trite events,
but what hail been done by the Civil List Com-
mittee four years back. Ite Was pleased to—call
the office of Auditor a job, though it had been
recommended by a Committee, and sanctioned by
Parliament. A salary of 15001. kyear was alb
lowed for the 'office, both by the Conithittee and
the House, and the Warne which thus belonged to
the Legislature was throWn open his Right Hon
Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer.) He
was surprised the Right Hon. Gentlemen (Mr.
Tierney) was, not afraid to mention the word job
at all alter the lesiOir.he got npon it a feW nights-
back.—(A laugh.)—He thought he should not
have beard it from,. t htit 'side of the House far Stone
time. It Iva, impossible that the House could be
protected against the debts of the Civil List with-
out this offfee, and yet it was called a job. The
question now was, whether .she 'arrangement
with Mr. Herries was, a. proper one. A regular
Treasury Order was made alter the appointment
of the AnditOrship, torathc suppression of 1.10
placei connected with are Civil List. These places
were to expire when the persons who then held
them were dead. And the saving by this arrange-
ment would amount to much More therm: the salary
of the Auditor. So that the Right Hon, Gentle-
man
,(Mr. Tierney) was not justified in stating
that the arrangement recommended by the Com-
mittee had not been attended to. The debate was
certainly conducted with fairness tower& Mr.Her-
ries. 'He was spoken of as his services merited.
The person who filled the situation which he oc•
cupied as Secretary was always considered an oh•
ject of favour; but putting all idea of favour out
Of consideration, if the ineasere Was looked at
as a question bf business, the arrangement with
Mr. Herries, he must contend, was a, proper
one. Considering the retiring provision to which
he would be entitled as Secretary and Comptroller,
could his half-pay as Commissary-in-Chief be less
than one half, that was 1354 a-year ? The rea-
son Sir W. Gordon had not so Much was, that he
received half-pay with reference to rank. It was
given- to Mr. Herries upon' other grounds. Sir
IV. Gordon and others came to the head of the
Department at once. , Mr. Herries; did not.
Though the Commissary-in-Chief was Gazelted,
and subject to the CoMmander-in-Chief, his
place was on a military footing.' Mr. I'erceval,
took it out of that situation, and placed it ou
civil tooting. Mr. Herries bad spent 18 yeats,in
the public service. At a time when he was near
being first Clerk of the Treasury, a place of 15001.
a, year, he was taken out of and placed in one
of g,reat labour and responsibility. In the year,
1814 he bad the outlaying of 10,000,0001. and of
much more in. 1815. • 'lnc operations carried. on
by !dui for the,purchase of specie were so labo-
rious, so extensive, and so heueticial to the nib-
lic, that the. services of Sir W. (Jordon, however
valuable and meritorious, were not to be compar-
ed to his., After all his labours, all. hi useful ex-
ertirins,' anti with the purity •of mind which
rendered him worthy to be so highly trust-
ed, would it • have been fair to let hint re-
tire apon less than 13501. a year. Hy Act
of Parliament, ten years service entitled an
Officer to the. half-pay, and eighkeen years ser,
vice to the full-pay. The Treasury only put 'Mr.
Herries upon the pay he-would have been entitled
to by the former period of service. As a Clerk
of the Treashry, if he remained in that situation,
he might have had more than '1350/. a•year, but
he wits called to another laborious place, and alter
so well filling the.duties of it, would it have been
liberal or just to call upon him to audit the Civil
List for a trifling salary ? flis half-pay was called
a. job, and his Atulitorship a sinecure. There could
tic no greater misapplication of language. The
office of Audi:or of the Civil List was a most im-
portant one ; and it was fit that it shoohlbe placed
under the direction of extraordinary habits, and
extraordinary je,dgment, such as Mr. Herries pot-
sessed. He Was satisfied that what Mr; flerries
bad received could not be considered as any fa-
vour'; in fact, it would have been an injury to
him had not his services, .which had been. of -the
utmost importance to the public, been adequately
rewarded. It was also of the first consequeove
to guard against a recurrence of the evils which
have been witnessed in the charges of the Civil
List; and ip,oo way could the public be better
protected than by a person of the abilities which
Mr. Herries justl been proved to posseis. On
time grounds he should oppose the motion.
Mr. PoNsoNRY Mahltahicd that the Office of
Mr. Herries was ft military one, not withstanding
what bad been said by the Noble Lord; but sup-
pose be were to allow that it was merely a civil
office, he would then ask ' where was the role
which entitled civil officers, who retired, to re-
ceive more than their half-pay ? Ile might ask,
indeed, what were the instances in which they
Were granted the.foll half of-their salary ? -If Mr.
Herries chose to' teke the office of Auditor of the
Civil List, 'why' were the peblicts to suffer lie
saw .no 'reason why hi should-not surrender his

half-pay, upUn having accepted that function ;
unless, indeed, there was some peculiar merit in
his case;' which entitled him to he a principle
violated for his sake, which had never peen yin.
Wed. for, any other per Sou. He doubted, how.'
ever, ivbeiher the transaction proceeded upon any
grotind of merit : he rather. believed the whole
thing was to be traced to the influence of layout
and he thought.the House was bound to ;gown, i!ec
upon it, that it wa* Animpruptr use of the public

money.
Mr. C. ORANT said, that the Treasury, in fixing
the compensation due to Mr. Hetries, were not
bound to refer,to,the enactments of the Superan-
nuation Act, because that Act related to offices
from' which persons retired 'in consequence of ill
health, length of service, or advanee-of years,
whereas the office of Mr. Herries was abolished.
The only quution, therefore, was, whether the
TressoryAked, or had not, exercised a sound dis-
cretion in the mode and amount of compensation.
He thought they had, and he therefore did not

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