The Sun.
London, England, 1828-07-17 00:00:00

not to interfere with the political occurrences of that
country—(Cheers)—ihat army having been sent
thither merely in consequence of the demonstration
and menaces of hostility on the part of Spain.—
(Loud cheering.)—l have now gone through the
whole of the arguments and observations with which
I thought it necessary to trouble your Lordships, in
reply to the Noble Baron, and shall conclude by
assuring your Lordships that when the proper
time shall arrive, every document, and all the in-
formation respecting these matters that may be re-
quired, shall be laid before your Lordships. (The
Noble Duke sat down amid loud cheering.)
Earl DUDLEY rose, but was for some moments
in the commencement, and frequently afterwards,
during his speech, inaudible to us—partly from the
low tone in which his Lordship spoke, and partly
from the inconvenience of our situation, and of which
we have so frequently and so unsuccessfully com-
plained. We understood his Lordship to reply to
his Noble Friend (Lord Holland), who had expressed
his opinion that enough had not been done towards
the preservation of the Constitution of Portugal.—
He assured his Noble Friend, however, that when
the proper time should come he should be able to
satisfy him, their Lordships, and the country, that
every thing possible had been done by his Majesty's
Government towards the maintenance of that Con-
stitution. (His Lordship proceeded to animadvert
upon the conduct of Don Miguel, contending that if
the efforts of his Majesty's Government had not
been successful in resisting his designs, it had not
been for the want of every disposition on the part of
his Majesty's Government to counteract them.) He
had felt it his duty to say that much, and indeed, he
would add, that whenever the transactions referred
to should come to be fully discussed, whether as
they applied to Portugal or to our Allies, the part
taken by his Majesty's Government would be ap-
proved of by their Lordships and the country.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, after all that
had been said, thought it was not necessary for his
Noble Friend to press his motion. The Noble
Marquis then recapitulated the various points dwelt
upon in the debate, contending that the change in
the situation of Europe effected by the conflict in
which Russia had engaged with Turkey, was one
which might by possibility demand the interference
of this country. With respect to Portugal, his
Lordship said, the separation of that country from
the empire of the Brazils had been with the concur-
rence of Great Britain, and under circumstances
which procured to this Country the ascendency
which she had enjoyed, and beneficially for ourselves
exercised, in Portugal for so many years. He agreed
with his Noble Friend, that the principle on which
our troops had been sent to Portugal, was that of
non-interference in the politicalaffairs of that country;
and (as we understood his Lordship) that the same
principle should prevent our interference at present.
Lord STRANGFORD rose to oppose the mo-
tion, and complained of having been misunderstood
and misrepresented by the Noble Baron on a former
occasion. The Noble Lord had done so again that
night, and it was not, perhaps, surprising that he
(Lord Strangford) should have been misunderstood.
It would have been much more surprising if what
fell from an individual so humble as himself, should
have been accurately retained in his Lordship's me-
mory. But he trusted that he should be allowed to
say that he never did assert that we were bound by
treaties and engagements, as far as alliance went, to
Turkey; but what he said was, and he begged to
assure the Noble Lord that he made the assertion on
the means of knowledge his situation afforded him,
that promises made 300 years ago by the Turkish
Government were now as faithfully fulfilled as the
most binding obligations of any treaty possibly
could be. Perhaps it might be wished that other
Governments . had been equally slow to contract
written engagements as those calumniated Turks
had been, against whom a Noble Lord had poured
out the violence of his wrath and contempt. A
Noble Lord had referred to an anecdote said to be
circulating in the different Courts of Europe relative
to M. Minziacky and the Reis Effendi. He (Lord
Strangford) could assure the Noble Lord that he
had heard this anecdote for the first time that night.
What had passed between M. Minziacky and the
Reis Effendi he was not bound to know, but the
transactions which had taken place between himself
and that Turkish officer were placed on record.
They would be found in two protocols in which was
contained what he had proposed to Turkey, and that
which the Turkish Government undertook to per-.
form. Upon an inspection of those documents it
would be seen whether Turkey had or had not
shown every disposition to do that which she was
in honour bound to do.

Lord HOLLAND would not observe upon the
arguments urged against his motion, principally be-
cause he thought the Noble Duke had met this ques-
tion in a most candid, sensible, and direct manner,
and had put it on its real footing. The Noble Duke
had said—acknowledging the great calamities which
had occurred—acknowledging the misfortune to this
country of the events which had taken place in
Portugal—acknowledging and even magnifying the
dangers of what he considered the misfortune of
the rupture of Russia and the Porte--acknowledg-
ing all—he nevertheless asked Parliament to con-
fide a little longer in the proceedings of the Govern-
ment, adding, that he would hereafter be happy to
lay before the country the whole cause of these

transactions. The Noble Duke had also said that
the papers called for on the motion of humble indi-
viduals like hunself, who did not know the whole
transactions to which they related, would only serve
as a species of cx park evidence, on which no sound
and just decision could be come to. It was upon
these grounds that the 1.%.10b1e Duke had called upon
their Lordships to resist the motion he had made ;
but he should persist in the motion on grounds
which he thought it must be acknowledged were
not unworthy of consideration. The Noble Duke
had admitted that although the papers might not
make out a prima facie case, containing evidence of
misconduct on the part of the Government, yet that
there was reasonable grounds for seating it of such
unparalleled confidence as had been granted it for
the last ten months. That was the footing on
which the Noble Duke had left the question,
and there, he should say, let it lie. He felt
it, however, necessary to explain two or three
points on which he had been greatly misunderstood.
The Noble Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs
had throughout his argument entirely mistaken the
drift of his (Lord Holland's) reasonings; he begged,
however, to say that he had meant most cal efully to
guard himself against the least appearance of making
a charge against the Government of this country.
The Noble Viscount mid the Noble Earl who had
spoken more lately, and who for the sake of old
acquaintanceship he might call friends, had both fallen
into the same error with respect to a point on which
he wished clearly to be understood. Both the Noble
Lords seemed to think that he had implied, with.
respect to Greece and Turkey, that we were bound
by the original protocol or the treaty consequent on
it, to attempt the dismemberment of the Turkish
Empire. Both his Noble Friends had represented
him as recommending this as a line of policy to be
pursued. But he (Lord Holland) had done no such
thing ; he was not so entirely ignorant of the mean-
ing of words, as on reading the protocol to imagine
that that could ever have been the object of those
who had signed it. rut, feeling as an Englishman,
and as a man, he must—he should rejoice at the
downfall of a Power, from whom neither England
nor any other nation had ever derived the slightest
benefit. The Turks were in possession of the finest
regions of the earth ; they had been so for ages; but
they were the solitary instance of a great Power exist-
ing so long under eiremnstances so favourable, which
had never doneany thing for the advantage of mankind.
He should rejoice whenever the time should arrive
for the destruction of that enormous, wasteful, and
detestable empire,for such it had been described by
Burke, and all the great statesmen this country pro-
duced up to 1778. It must be to the advantage of
those countries who were most advanced in capital
and intelligence that that Power should fall, and he
should consider it a fortunate circumstance whenever
that event took place, but he never meant to recom-