The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-25 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 25, 1845.

free-trade and the impediments to commerce by such a test, the
Right Hon. Baronet might have enlightened them from his recent
visit to his own constituents, when he submitted to them his
views on the subject of that test, as to how far the electors of
the country were disposed to approve of his own opinions.—
( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet would see and re-
cognise his allusion to his late reception at Stamford.—( Hear,
hear, and laughter.) The weather was at present about the
same as then, but he did not believe that if he went
down there now, he would meet the same treatment
as his Honourable Friend the Member for Manchester,
would do from his constituents, after his unqualified avowal of
the doctrines of free trade. He did not know if the Right
Hon. Baronet had much improved his chance in the district he
represented, by submitting to the House the speech he had just
delivered. With all due deference to the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, and with great respeot to him personally, he ventured to
say that he had not much raised himself in the opinion of
the House by that address. He did not mean to say that
it was not a fair average speech for a functionary of the Go-
vernment—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) It seemed just that
sort of speech and argument that might be drawn out of the
pigeon-holes of the Board of Trade, after having been put by
some twenty-five years back. —(Laughter. ) It seemed that
mass of common-place—that tissue of vague generalities—that
sort of no answer to the question before the House—
that kind of matter that was usually brought before
them to occupy a certain space of time.—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) For he did think that, considering the practical
and specific question which his Hon. Friend ths Member for
Manchester had brought before the House, there never was an
Hon. Gentleman, of mature years, and holding the position the
Right Hon Gentleman held, who had ever occupied so much
of the time of the House in speaking, without any reference to
the point in question—who continued so to make himself
the giants with which he fought—alluding to things
that had never fallen from his Hon. Friend, and never answer-
ing the questions that must be answered before the discussion
ceul l cease, which his Hon. Friend had brought forward. The
Right Hon. Gentleman urged an objection to this sort of ab-
stract question; yet the question was put before them to be
sifted practically, that they might be pressed to
tell the House what were the claims of the West
India proprietors to this protection—what claim
they had to this enormous sacrifice exacted from the
people of England ? He would ask, what were those claims?
They wanted to know what were those claims—what had they
sacrificed—what did they owe them—what was the large
amount of their loss ? They were told of the great sacrifices
they had been obliged to make—( Hear, hear)—let
them bring in the account—let them see it—let them know
what it was they were paying for? The Right Hon. Gentle-
man said he should proceed to show what particular claims
these gentlemen had; but he (Mr. Villiers) would ask any
body who had heard the Right Hon. Gentleman—anybody
who had listened to him —and they had paid him the most re-
spectful attention—whether they were in possession from him
of the shadow of an idea as to what were the claims,
general or particular, in respect of which the gentlemen who
were proprietors of landed estates in the West Indies, took
2,300,0001. annually from the people of this country.—( Hear,
hear.) Now, he would put it to the House, whether they
could remember—whether they could tax their memories—so
as to try and comprehend what the Right Honourable
Gentleman said, in order to explain why this
sacrifice had been made, and what these claims
were ?--(Hear, hear,) The Right Hon. Gentleman said, he
did not know what Hon. Gentlemen opposite proposed to do,
why, in adopting this resolution, they proposed to bind that
House to a principle which, if applied, would do justice to
the people of this country, and by which, as long as it was
withheld, justice was withheld—( Hear)—and they also wanted
to know why it was withheld ? The Right Hon. Gentleman
said it had been the policy of this country to protect the
colonial interest, that protection was part of the great scheme
of policy -always adopted by this country. Why that was the
language which the Right Hon. Gentleman's friends in the
opposite corner of the House addressed to the Right
Honourable Baronet at the head of the Government The
Right Honourable Gentleman, said they, by this reso-
lution proposed to disturb the scheme of policy always
adopted by this country. Why this was exactly what
the Government were doing themselves. They were disturb-
ing it every day, they scarcely ever got up to make a speech
that they did not utter some sentiment at variance with that
great scheme of policy. What was it they heard so much of
from the agricultural interest now ? What was it they heard so
much of last year from the West Indian body ? Why, that
'hey were depriving them of protection. The Right Hon.
Gentleman himself disturbed that protective principle, and
then turned round on them, and thinks it an answer to the
question asked by his Hon. Friend to say that it was part of a
great scheme of policy to protect certain interests, and that
they could not be disturbed without injury to the country ! Now
would it not almost have been more decent to have said nothing at
all ? Would it not have been better to have let it be under-
stood that the Government meant well, that it wished to carry
out its principle, but that it did not like to commit itself now ?
Did it not tend to render ridiculous every thing they proposed
when they uttered such doctrines? But the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman did say something in the courso of his speech which he
really thought was somewhat to the point. He said
he wished the Honourable Members for Cumberland
and Weymouth were present, because they knew some-
thing of the details of the subject. He was himself utterly
in ignorance, and knew nothing of the matter, but
they, though opposed to him in politics, were connected with
the West Indies, and they would perhaps be so good as to help
him out. The Right Honourable Gentleman said he
knew nothing about it, he had announced his
own ignorance—( Hear)—and in a confidence that
ignorance could alone justify, had asserted that he believed
those claims in protection were well founded, and that this wasthe principle of the measure of which Le professed entire igno-
rance. Why, this was exactly what his Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Manchester complained of. He could see nothing that
justified the amount of the sacrifice called for from the people
—that was precisely the matter in dispute. He
should like to have some statistic information; he should like
to know in what state these properties were—whether their co-
lonial dependencies were all in this state, and what there was
in this mystical sum of 10s. 6d. that had hitherto
met all the circumstances of the case? Here were
2,300.0001. taken out of the pockets of the people of
England, and no information given as to the purpose for which
it was done. Was that the moment, looking at the state of
this country, when such a sacrifice ought to be made? They
were told that the income-tax could net be given up. Now
here was an available surplus, by which, if it were not for the
sugar interest, the people might be relieved from a portion at
least of the income-tax.—( Hear, hear.) If the sugar duties
were adjusted so as to produce two or three millions more,
either the income-tax or other taxes might be reduced. The
duty on tea be reduced, so as to lead to its being admitted in
much greater abundance ; and thus would our connexion be
rendered closer with that country from which tea was sent to
our own.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentlanan told
them that if he had more surplus, he would apply it in the
same manner as he proposed to apply the existing sur-
plus.—( Hear, hear.) It appeared that the reason why he
could not reduce more taxes was the protection given to the
West India proprietors. His Hon. Friend the Member for
Weymouth had put. in a word for the East India proprietors.
He said protection was claimed for the East Indians as well as
West Indians. Why, it was part of their case that that absur-
dity existed.—( Hear, hear.) Particular grounds were stated
for imposing this penalty on the people of England in the case
of the West Indies, which did not in the least apply to the
East Indies.—( Hear, hear.) The West Indians told them
that the only ground on which they claimed protection was
that labour was not cheap. "We want more labour," they
said, " and then we should be able to compete with any:foreign
State." What were the wages in the East Indies? Two-
pence a day at the most.—( Hear, hear.) Well, now, what
possible ground was there for protecting the East Indians ?
They had no vested interests. In their case the Legislature
created the very interests which claimed to be protected ; the
interest was created and the protection was then claimed.
His Hon. Friend the Member for Cumberland was some-
what ingenious in his mode of arguing ; for
seeing that this question would not bear arguing in that light,
he changed the issue as soon as possible.—( Laughter.) He
got upon slavery. Now, he (Mr. Villiers) begged to say,
that his Hon. Friend's motion did not raise that question.—
( Ironical cheers from the Ministerial benches.) His Hon.
Friend asked him why there shouid be a duty of 10s. less on
East and West India sugar, as compared with that of Java and
'Manilla? He also wanted to know why this was done. His
Hon. Friend, the Member for Cumberland. said, " Think of
the horrors of slavery ; it is for them that my heart beats. I
care not for my own estate, it is the cause of humanity which
urges me to oppose you."—.(Laughter.) Now he waisted to
know how his Hon. Friend's benevolent feelings would be
affected by the introduction of Java and Manilla sugar ?
(Laughter.) Why should they apply distinctive duties to free-
labour sugar, the produce of different parts of the world. If they
were sincere in stating the purpose for which they maintained a
distinction, they ought to hasten to give every encouragement
to the admission of all sugar produced by free labour.—( Hear,
hear.) They said they wanted to present to the world an ex-
ample which would prove that free-labour sugar was better and
more economically produced than slave-labour sugar, and that
they were desirous of encouraging sugar produced by free labour,
because that would lead to the abolition of the slave trade.
Now that experiment had already been made as regarded the
markets of Europe generally ; there Java sugar always did
compete with the sugar of Cuba and Brazil. Why, when they
were about to make some change in their arrangements, why
did they not open their markets to all sugar which was pro-
duced by free labour ?—( Hear, hear.) It was quite clear that
slavery had nothing to do with the matter.—( Hear, hear.) He
had a perfect right to say this, so long as they made a distinction
between one free-labour sugar and another ; and it would be
more creditable to them, he thought, if they avowed their real
object to be that of giving protection to the West Indian
interest. Indeed, the Right Honourable Baronet (Sir G.
Clerk) confessed that the real object was that of favouring the
West India proprietors.—( Hear, hear.) Well, then, 'they
were bound to show what advantage this protection had ever
given to them. If they possessed some confused notion that
their colonial empire could be made to flourish by an Act of
Parliament, let them show that these people were suffering
then for the first time.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Ba-
ronet defended the Government measure on the distinct and
ole ground that the West India planters were now suffering
from the abolition of slavery. There was, lie contended, no
ground, no pretence for making that assertion ; and he would
tell the Right Hon. Baronet that, whether slavery existed or
not, there had always been suffering when the proprietors were
protected. That was the argument used by those who were
the real friends of the slaves in the West India islands. He re-
ferred to such authorities as Cropper, Macaulay, and Stephen,
who had asserted that the ruin of these islands had been slavery
and monopoly.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet did
not make statements so loosely. He would remind him that,
twelve years ago, a Member of that Cabinet to which he be-
longed had declared, in that House, that the real cause of dis-
tress in those islands was the existence of slavery. It was very
important that that House, and, through it, the country, should
be made aware that they were not asking for anything that was
unjust, or likely to be injurious to the West Indian interests,
and, above all, was it desirable that theyshould be disabused of
the monstrous fallacy that it was owing to the abolition of
slavery that such depression existed. He found that during the
existence of the slave trade and slavery, a Committee was ap-
pointed by the House of Assembly in Jamaica, to make inqui-
r les as to the general state of distress in that island ; and he
ventured to say that the report made on that occasion showed that
island to be even in a worse condition than it was at present.
He quoted from a work of Mr. B. Edwards, which was strongly
in favour of the proprietors themselves. The period referred to
was 1792. Speakingof the result of the inquiry, it was stated by
this writer, that 177 estates had been sold for debt, and fifty-
five thrown out of cultivation, and further that ninety-two
estates remained in the hands of the creditors. Now he had
not heard any such statement as that made that eveuing. He
was not aware that the distress in the island of Jamaica had
arrived at such a pitch. That was the state, however, of the
island in 1792, under slavery and the slave trade. In 1807
there was a Committee of that House to inquire into the un-
paralleled distress of the West India proprietors. They were
then still receiving slaves from Africa, slavery still existed.
The cause assigned for the depression at that time was the con-
tinuance of the war k it was stated that that had produced an
unequal competition in foreign markets. Then there was also
a Committee of Inquiry, and great discussion also took place, in
1824, before the abolition of slavery. In 1-32
there was another inquiry as to the great distress
which prevailed, and that Committee spoke of the
proprietors having alleged all sorts of inconsistent
reasons for it, and said they must conclude that there was
some other reasons than those assigned. The Earl of Ripon,
who was Colonial Minister at the time, said that without de-
nying the concurrence of many causes, it was obvious that the

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