The Sun.
London, England, 1819-12-14 00:00:00

NEW MEASURES.

Air.. BARNHT presented a petision front certain
Inl,HhitAnts, of Rochester, against the passing of
the Re,sttictive Measures at present in :heir pro-
gress through the House, . which Ihey eonsider,d
as snbvrtsive of the Constitution. Atter a few
wofils from the Ilon. I\ieniber on the subject of
its contents,

The petition was ordered to lie on the table,
and to he printed.

Mr. CALVERT presented a petition from the. In-
habitants of the Borough of Soothwark, expres-
sive of their reprobation of the Measeres at pre-
sent in their course through the House, aid of
the Seizure of Arms Bill in partic,olar. The Hron.
Gentleman observed, that it woodd not appear ex-
traordinary that he had not hitherto beets able to
find an opportunity of stating his sentiments on
the momentous questions referred to in the
Peti-
tion he now held in his hand, wnen it was coo-
sidered that there were six hundred and fitty-
eight Members in that House, most of them
anxious to speak, and some of them not satisfied
with speaking once on the same question. The
Honourable Gentleman briefly went over the
transactions of the 16th of August 1 ist,
he said, he viewed with korror. The :new-,
ns-
ployed to disperse the meeting of the people on
that occasion were rigorous in the extreme, and
unnecessary. He would pot it to any one, who.
was of a different opinion, how it was possible to
disperse, according to law, upwards of 50,000
persons in the course of a few minutes. He also
contended that if Ministers were to go wo tuoch
longer in the same course they had followed with
regard to this question, they would raise a skirls
in the country which the adoption of measures
like the present would in vain labour to quell.
09 the goes:ion being put from the Chair—
' That this Petition be now brought up.
Sir ROBERT WILSON followed his Hots. Friend
in support of the- Petition. He observed, that
while his Constituents, in whose behalf this Pe-
tition was presented, were the firm friends of
peace and good order, and determined to d, fend
the Constitivion, they were by no nseany inclined
to give up the tried and acknowledged maxini,
that the people were the source of power. 1 he
Petitioners complained that they saw its the Bill
for the Seizure of A 11145 it revolutionary mode of
governing. They saw in the Libel Bill a deter-
initiation, not to remove solely all sedition awl
blasphemy from, the press,' but to remove indefi-
nitely nli that should he obnoxious to that system
of .despotism which the riders of this contrary
were endeavouring to establish, They saw in i!!,,
whole measures a tendency to abolish the sa-
cred right of meeting for the purpose sit dis-
cussing grievances, and of petitioning Patna-
merit on the same. It had toil hems beer,
held that an Etoglishman's house was his
castle, aloond which the elements miAt whi•tle,
and which they might enter, but which the King
might not enter. What load now become of this
notion. The subject was to be exposed to have
his bolts broken open; the peace and domestic
order of his house interrupted, and to 1-,:e exposed
to the brutal violence and lust of midnight hived-

erS. declare, that if stICI.IIW:
sures were allowed to pass, the only remedy „
their opinion was, that his Majesty's ,Nlinivers
declared unworthy of the Royal confidence, 14
that it was hoped and expected film they ,v(P'.
he dismissed ;---but, if they should still contial
in the confidence of the Sovereign, they fearea.
system of oppression would be persevered I:
against the people, which would goad them °
to show that it ..was beyond their power of sutler
ance.

The Petition was then brought up, ordered 10
lie on the table, and to be jointed.
MESsAGI; FROM THE LORDS.
A Areasage from rise Loral was received,
notmcing that their 14,trdships had passed a IP:,
for the purpose of preventing delays iu the adolli
nistratioo of justice, in case of misdemanors, 11°,1
desiring the concurrence of the Llonse to (a
same —On the Motion of Lord CasTeErtEma°'
this Bill was read a first time, and ordered tot
second reading on Wednesday next.
SEDITIOUS MEETINGS PREVENTION BILL.
Lortl CASTLRREAUti moved the third reading°
the Seditious Meetings Prevention Bill.
dot
Lord Attonta-ALb HAMILTON declared,
voiing as he -was about to do, in favour Of 1111;
measure, he gave his vote wi h more regret thi;
ever he did on tiny former occasion, as he ''se
about to differ trout his Honourable Friends nee
hint. No one could respect mote highly than lie
did, the rights of his fellow countrymen, but thA
freedom of time present times seemed to consts4,,,i;
an abose'of those rights, and to be employed o°l
for the purpose of taking away the• rights re
others. He hoped that iu giving his vote on
present occasion, he would not be understood-0i
acquiescing in_the other measures of Ministers
that either his duty to his country, or his
ciples were compromised by acting thus. bbig
object
,doing so, teas to perform that dutYl",
more sincerely. He admitted all the object-jai
urged against the Bill by his Honourable ;ifien(l9
but lie teas internally convinced, that the Wt,
of the mannfarturiog districts, was such as 1r..;
mantled some measure of that description, 0144::0
.was that conviction alone that infl,ienced
Vote.—(Hear
Mr. HUTOHINSoN believed, in his soul, (hart°
? Lord (Castlereagh) had no appreiteni°:
respecting the state of the country, limber t'
that it !lie people were allowed to continue to oe(
the right of petition as they had hitherto dollt'
he would be compelled to abandon the sYstew
nd
which he had founded his dearest hopes and
pee, ations. In the event of this -Buil (icing Of;
.rind, lie should propose a chose for [Le pea
of exempting held WI horn it's. operation.
le
could not conceive upon what grounds the :\109,,
Lord could defend his haviog extended this 13;11(i
Ireland. Hehad himself said, ire opening to
House the nature of the measures w.i.e.t e 1)°I
since proposed, in alluding to that part ot tile BO,„
Sperch which adverts to the state of the manufli
tilting dist! icts,tion he had k [town Iteiand in a olitc1(
worse state, and at the saute time admittej
all the symptoms which had evinced themseill.4o
ill that country had now entirely subsided.
this statement mn y Irish Members had it
borne testimony, amongst %sitcom was the Ri,:
Honourable the Secretary for Ireland (Mr. ';
Grant.) He must say that it appeared °mint'',
to the happiness of Irrlied to sec 70 Dish ;\te-lio
hers swelling the ranks of the Atlntins!r4tiolt ‘l/,
this occasion. Was it in vengeance to their cdli)
try that they did this ? or how did it tally
the representation which had been made on 3
titer evenitsg by one of thr athat they had left
homes in the hour of danger, for the po d
rpose`;
feuding their cause in lion House? News-had
received that day from the capital of Irelaml,
stated the general feeling of alarm which pet°,o
ed the country, on hearing of this inteutioo
the part of Ministers. It was in consetuirocc.i,
the Reform tool Manofacturing Meetings wiOk.‘
had taken place in this country that the rest'
measures were introduced. It had not
thought necessary, when the Habeas Corptts'i,
had been suspended, in 1816, to extend its 9°,1
pension. to Ireland and since the Union, relic,,
that Act was suspended in Ireland, and the4oll,:,
try put under military law, the tame reso!
lions had Dot been appli!li to Great, iirtolifj
Here, then, wet e two precedents for lut:131:,
being exenipted front the operation of the (new
sores now thought necessary for England.
11
was aware that Geollemen who Were cottitect‘pt
with those parts of Grt at Britain which ‘vc'ekl
a state of tranquillity, -would say, that it
be unfair to apply the.oper.ation of these meato'r„
to those districts, and exempt Ireland. Io 11%,
however, he would answer, that there wa4 I,loe
rural counexion bet Weer, these counties alld
most remote counties in the island ; %vitt reas
s'itch etinnexion existed with regard to Irelanjiile
This country was sea•gitt. The llono"14:0
Gentleman concluded by appealing to all
Members in that House, whether for %Vales, 01.1 be
i3t
country
a c(trnStre; 1n t13r::1(i,
to
rit: t)s I;hiti'i,ot o
ltin;"tch‘olisfej
sister g

presslve measures. feta
Mr. FosTFit contended that had it not J-1,
for what had fallen from the Hottour:lt)N,Greilie:
man who had just sat down, IV! people ot, 'trite
land would probably never have knovrn or 'o
ex ktrove of that measure—(Citeerin, Iran 'ljt,
Opposition and Ministerial lienclie.t.)—He
not mean to say that the Hon. Gcntleol'ilp,
speech was calculated to give them %yarning (it *
but had it not been for that, they would t not 't,./ ,
been ptacticaPy acquainted with it --(Hear
All meetings in Ireland-ate held under corer,rajct
therefore this Bill could not practically ne
tpt
them. 11,7;th respect to the tranqillitY of
1e
emntry, he would observe that, 119 it had lice 11,1
cider! that it should not he a local Bid, that wo'l4,
not hold oc au organelle for its cxrthpii""'
Hey' did not know if the lion. Gentlentan was s'.l.el
titan Ambassadors had actually been sent to
land trona Manchester, and were now oo fiter
per,ollbulations its !hat country ; and it wo4 "°-0 tlO
be supposed that they would omit any thing c
ciii.itvd to excite the people to open ~C(5 Of diSog
fection. He ically believed that this netooreof
a.; dtis-alde a one for Ireland as for ell Part
Great Britain. ectlY
Mr. PLUNKFTT said, he bad been 9(),('"rrhir'°
called t,:on by the Hon. NlCtllher 11"--
son), that, however much be mii;llt 1"11

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flclined, it Was it-IS-possible For ItirSl to rerose to
11)bev 117 cal. Ile did ant knoee that was usual
fnthe coarse of d dwes to eAI-tan individual
°r his s =i iments them—(Hear !) ;—but he
ee"res!'ed himself sornuch of an Irishman, that
be Could not refuse tire challenge no the present
ticeasion.—(Hear!),--He felt grateful to the Hoti
Gentleman for the high mention he had made of
• lls character and talents; the former, however,
Ile wasln OO apprehension was likely to suffer.—
' (Hear, hear !)—"Char Hon. Gentleman, he ob-
,erved, bad his line of polities, and no doubt the
Part he had take. that evenioe was in contormity
•vith that line lint he begged him to understood
`that he (Mr. P ) had also his, and he hoped
tils conduct on that occasion would agree with
it, He had otten had occasion to tiller from
'ultn, and he never remembered to have re:
;gtett.ed his having done so.—(Hear, hear!)—
jhe lion. Gentleman had talked notch about the
"Atlas/ and rights of the people having been in-
Vatted.; hilt he would ask, what was that liberty,
'4lAsthose rights'? He had been siecustomed to
7N'insider liberty as " Potestus fuciendi quicquid
der lees beet." One would suppose, however,
that the liberty contetokd for by the Hon. Gess-
'llernan wets -not •the enjoyment of any rights, bat
'•,the power of disturhing others in the possession of
•them, .•r of excluding them altogether from them..
.(Cheers.)—That kirid of liberty would be best
represented •by the bird called -Harpy, a bird.
that .pierced with poisonous fangs all that it
•,uxed on for its prey.— (Cheers respect
to) the present measure, on which the Honourable
tlember had SO strongly animadverted, lie it oist
Ileclare it to be his cooscientious opinion that it
11'49 not at varistoce will any of the principles. of
ethe Constitution. He gave his support to it on a
'Non-ledge of the extent of the distaibed state of
;he country, attsi not from any papers which had
°eeti laid on the table at the commencement of
ethe Session. He thought that society, daring the
twvntv or thirty years, had undergone more
tilaterial changes titan it had done since the Con-
..ilaest. There lead been an intensity of light
thrown in ilp„, the lower orders of society, upon
1111 Matters'in which the public interest was in any
'vay involved, greater than at any other period
tf history. Ile did not regard this circumstance
jealousy. On the contrary, tie looked upon
the habit of free, open discussioe, which had
clot-
heg that !serif's! been acquired by the press as an
'important accession to that guardian of our free-
toosll. But when the press had arrived at that de-
-Itree.t3l degradation which had been Well deumni-
bated the " seditious and blasphemous"' press,
ahning at the destruction of all the good-feeling
and morality of-the lower classes, it. was time to
!dont some measure for its restriction.—(Hear,
"ear !)—The lower classes had been made die pe-
enliar object of its play ;
.and where such insidious
"nalos were put in practice, it would be found that
there was an under fment. in the lower classes of
the community, hasteniog all its weathers into a
!otea of sedition —(Hear !)—He did not mean to
say that those classes were not to he permitted to
41„
'-•coss their grievances, but he would contend
that subjects which itivolved esseioid changes in
the principles of the Laws and Constitution, were
hot such as they should be called to deliberate
'thou. Stich honest continent:sous could feel that
liovetnnient was a. restriction on their natural
liberties, but they were tartly to perceive also the
bear!)--It
they derive;: front it—(Hear, hear,
sitarl)-11 w,es itkw of Nature that those who
-IP4rtted their sostetiaace by doily labour were not
;Ipahie of d;scossitig, such ,matters. It had
ten truly said that a little knowledge was
Aingetons thing ;" • and this applied equally
religion, to politics, mod to literature. The
.Man who dipped slightly into literature was its
Ilc4iger of deserving the appellation of a babbling
-trifle. If a labourer should snit his daily work
..f°l‘ the sake of listening to objections which
I"ight be weed to the doctrines of religion, he
*mild be subject to become All it.fidei. if a
PlOughotati 'occupied those hours, %%nisi], after
liig regular toil, should be devoted to the dis-
tiStge of his social duties, in pondering over se-
writings and papers, be would certainly he
iltitly to become a torbuient mats.—(lleAr, hear!)
ter the last three years, it had been attempted to
oring- the ordinary rights of the people hi array
lZtsitiet the ordinary tholes of the Constitution.—
it had been argued that its practices it was now
the aim of the Legislature to restrain ; which
"ere not intet fered with in the goad old shoes.
...;41efore he admitted this as an argument, he must
lhown that such things were permitted. Ile
I,ibust -unlearn all that history had taught him.
by
these large meetings were never thought of
by
our ancestors ; and if the good old laws of the
Rood
old times did not apply to such acts, it was
.beCaUSt such never existeds---(Hear, hear !)—The
tLe old Legislation wits to provide oew
"is for new eases.— (Hear, hear !)—Tht present
'Measure was stigmatized as an iotetlereoce on the
:tight of petitioning; but, in justice, it did not des
letve it, That right consisted in the power of
mulurnunicating freely, and of expressing publicly
•Lie sentiments thus communicated—sod, he would
.ask', was this possible to be accomplished io those
.4ereeehing 'howling meetings, where the speaker
atttoable to extend his voice suflicieutly to
understood by a twentieth part of the assets,
*led molliturie ? He would ask, if 100 meetings
a ere convened in rooms, where the speaker might
heard ; ,or, it one urea tint; of .10,000 persous
Isere convened., when they could not possibly be
these
by mote (*liar) one-hundredth part, which of
illese two plans would be most conducive to the'
ght of that free communication of seutitneats
heat !)----Lie would ch:+llenge the lion.
'entleman (Mr. Hutchinson) oil that polio, It
la"
contrary to the most elementary principles of
Auelety, that the physical force of a country should
let let loose upon it in that manner. He e0n-
:4)144d that it was rot an expression of the opi-
•, °lts of the people that was the object of these
iteethigs, but ass expression of their physical.
ttoree• That physical power which, in the first
has e ltgt from barbarism to a state of sc
ows yr,
nhe was aware, oecasiooally show itself in
t/"lis ; but then it was wily for the purposes of
Asi'.'"ltoion.—(Hear, hear !)—lle had exteaded
e.,,0e50 whirrs to a greater length (bait he had
/11 ,and •d nit ruing to answer the stifilniOns
;:pourable CienLleman.—(Hear

again &blared; that -none or Cot Meetings, kt,ll;eit
in Irtiiinci Itrcl aiways taken place finder cOver,
tvoohl be illsected by the provisioni of the Bit,
otttkr discussion. The Hot). Gentleman sat down
amidst !owl chte;.s.

Lord MILTON said, that as much as he wits in-
clined to do credit to the able and eloquent speech
of the Right Honourable and Learned Gentle.,
man, he had heard him utter so many sentiments
that were so Much better calculated for the be-
ginuing of the 16th century than the present pe-
riod, that he was tempted to make a few observa-
tionin !)—The Right Honourable
Gentleman, hi the course of his speech, had said
that there was so much light thrown in „pen the
country that it was necessary to take measures to
donioish it—(Cries of No, no ! from tie Ministe,
13eoelies )-1-le said that a little knowledge
was a dangerous thing—mettoing, for the lower
• classes of the comniunity, Ile meant, then, by
that, that it is necessary to put a atop to its
further progress—(No, no !)—Then 1( he did
not mean that the Right Hon. Grinkorai) meant
nothing. nothing. Ile certainly said restrictions were re-
quisite. Might not the same language have been
hell when Luther and Calvin begun the work of
Reform-ation, to dispel the igiorratice of the middle
ages ? lie also said, that dialog the last 20 years
greater changes have been wrought (halt at any
former period. Wharkvoidd he say to the periods
in which the .Bill of Rights and Magna Charta
were trained. The Noble Lord then proceeded
to point Out different. circumstatices which existed
ill the year 1795, when a prototype of the present
Seditious Meetings 11;11 was passed, anti the pre-
sent state of the Country. It was also a qoestion
with hinl how far toe levying 12,000 soldiers, in
time of peace, without consent of that House,
was not an invasion of the Biil of Rights. Tile
tranquillit y- procured for this Country by force
would not give security. That this Bill was
inteodsd to produce a 6ovt rnment by arbitrary
power, he would not assert ; but that it ioteoded
to take away the means of resisting arbitrary
power, 'lit titan could deny. Though he would
not suppose that this was the object of Ministers,
be could not but suppose it impossible for them
not to see that such must be the consequence of
passing it. If they would not stiffer the turbo-
. lent spirit now abroad to evaporate in the express
sion of its grievaoces, they took a course which
! would necessarily produce that state of things that
wohld make it almost impossible to return to our
ancient state. lie therefore thought this 13111, if
it did not absolutely go to annihilate the liberties
of t he conotry, would be lik: ly to 'impair them
Must considerably.
Mr. Roattsrson said, iLlie could by any course
of reasoning come to the conclusion at which the
Noble Lord who hal just sat down had arrived—
it he could think the state of disaffectiou in which
the country was fohod, One of recent origin—ef
he could perceive that the Government were by
some ntiaCCOUntalde accident exposed to a sud-
den ebullition of popular le:ling—if he could be-
lieve that the persons against whom this Bill was
to be directed had no visible and definite entl iu
view,
.which they were porsoiog with the most
persevet log activity, he perhaps might think that
untrecessai y which was now proposed. But
though no man was wore reluctant to interfere
with popular feelings, and even with popular pre-
indices than he was, he could not hot think 'that
in the preset state of the country the interference
of the Hotol was necessary. He could not but
trace the present disaffection back to that which
took place many years Ago-to those tra„,„60,,,,
which Occurred at a period now in the memory,
at least in the l'asliamentary memory of but few
lie meant those whiall took place at the time of
the French Revolution. The country was not I
then as note, in a state of distress. He must say
that he believed at no time, when Revolution was
contemplation, had there failed to be a mixture
of the ridiculous with the terrjying ; and there-
fore it was to be assumed, from the absurdity of
the proposition, that no danger is-as to be ap--
prehended frnni those with whom ie originated.
The ineetiog at Hutislet Moor had throe the same
thing which had been done at the Birmingham
meeting. They hail dime it,- not in words, but
its substance ; and it had been announced that
the object of the Reformers was '° to effect a na-
tional union, so as to collect together an over-
whelming mass of the male populstion of the
country."--And for what purpose? IVhat was this
" overwhelming mass" to do ? Why, " to present
a Petition, and then they could not tail of soccess."'
Who had ever before heard that such vast num-
bers were necessary merely to present a petition ?
It was, however, further stated, that they were then
to " take such other constitutional means as might
he necessary to carry their object ion effect."—
nour this it would he scent what an idea those
persons had of giving importance to their Peti-
tion by A display of physical strength. 'Jotter
such circumstances it appealed to hurl that the
resew danger. went infinitely beyond any the
he bad ever known to threaten the Comitry and
the Constitution. The Government, be con-
tended, had been driven to the measures which
they now proposed to Parliament. Whalever
might be said of its being intended to establish a
Gwernment of force, and of a design to Overtlirll
the Constitution, such was not the fact. These
charges.were easily made, and were made almost
as matters of CotilSe; but for hiMS-eif he could
say, that he had never supported measures with
more regret. He, however, could not snot his
ryes to the dangers which menaced the country,
and these, he was decidedly of opinion, called for
the immediate interference of Parliament. Some
Gentlemen bad considered public meetings as the
safety-valvesoftheConstittoion. lle would say that
that which escaped from these valves as they were
called, was but a pestilential vapour. The coo-
sequences of compressing them might cause some
inconvenience, but it compression were nut ap-
plied they might all fall under the baneful hat-
coce of the, noxious exhalations which would
otherwise escape. Looking then at the circum-
stances of the country, and balancing between
evils, he conid not but decide in favour of the pre-
sent measures. The liberty now c Wined by the
disaffected was unknown to the Constitution. It
had grown tip into a frightful abuse.
Mr. W. Ssivro, thotigh he, admitted the sting
to have been-taken 'out of this Bill in a great
measure, by the amendments whi;;li had beat

to ade; rot. allowing public nidetiris to be held
under cover, (for the limitation Of the. Bill as to
.imt. he thonglo of lest imnortance,) still objected
to the measure. Ilk chief ohj'•ction to it \A/As,
that it was %vitally unfounded on inquiry. This
he thought called for, especially in the case of the
Manchester Meeting, which had been dispersed,
as no meeting ever had been since the riots of
1780, in London. The ilL'etings then dis-
persed by the military, were dispersed under
very different circumstances. Ile strongly disap-
proved of the powers to he given to the Magis-
trates under this Bill. They had heat d munch
of an unpaid Magistracy. He would say this was
a narrow view of the case, and he might also say
that they were not unpaid. There was a French
story in point, that
,occurred to him. An old
Chevalier de St. Louis, on leaving- the 'fl►eatre,
saw the crowd run to pay their homage to a cele-
brated actor of that day,
win was coining out at
the saute•. time. " What !" said be, 't and ate
you to be thus followed and distinpiished by Ihr
public., while no notice is taken of me ? Ought
you to he 'thus rewarded, while I, who have so
long been fighting your battles, get nothing ?"
" Nothing !" replied ihe actor--" Do you call it
110116N:1'0 have the power of accosting me as you
do ?" He with the saute feeling would ask, if it
was to be thought nothing that the Magistrates
enjoyed those powers which were confided to
th to ? He, felt it to be his duty to oppose the
Bill.

Mr. L. WELLItsLEY, if he thought the present
Hill we►►t nnjustly,..to infringe on the liberties of
the people, trusted that no motive would induce
him to give it his consent. lie, however, could
nor see that it went to affect those constitutional
lil►erties which the people had a right to enjoy.
It did not prevent then► from meeting, as they hid
a right to do by law. Any individual who had
received the common education of a Gentleman,
knew that there never was a period when the people
could meet to express their sentiments on public
affairs without being under some restrictions.
Those now to be imposed were not unjustly se-
vere, and in his opinion they did not trench on
those privileges secured to the people at the time"
of tl►e Ilev4.lution.

Mr. WILLIAMS considered this Rill to go fur-
(her than the evil complained of warranted them
in going. Had it gone no timber than to pre•
vent armed and tumultuous meetings, trainings to
military exercises, or meetings to which the parties
marched with flags and banners in military ari,4y,
he would have given it his cordial support. He
wished to see a moderate and rational Reform ef-
fected, and this done, the whole country would
look up to that Hoose with respect and venera-
tion RS the best guardian of its best rights and
de3rest interests.

Lord MORPETH confessed, that from all the in-
formation he had been able to obtain on the sob-
jeer, he was led to conclude that the meetings
which had laiely been held disgraced and distress-
ed the mann:He:llring districts, and he was cem-
pellet' most reluctantly to believe, that if not re-
pressed by legislation, they must be put down by
the strong men of the civil power, aided perhaps
by a military force. He could have wished that
it had not been through necessity that the Bill
should continue in force so long as five years, but
still, miller the peculiar circumstances of the case,
he'telt himself bound to vote in its flvour. The
ci•y of the discontented was that they would have
the Constitution, the whole Constitution, and no-
thing but the Constitutioo ; and Annual 'Perlia-
meets and Universal Suffrage were, accord-
ing to them, essential parts of the Constitution.
They declared that they would consider their
sigh's to he withheld, and their wrongs to remain.
nuredressed till these concessions were made; anti
they added that it was to themselves that they
must look for redress, which they felt they pos-
sessed ample means of securing. He r•beicrihed the
arts by which it wes attempted to ieflenite and
contended the present measure, thoneh it was
said to iefrinee the liberty of the subject, was
necessary to prevent a greater infringement on the
liberty of the people. Mr. Berke i►ad described
true liberty to be connected with order, " and
so connected that it could not at all exist without
it." lie 'lid not suppose that the liberty and the
order of which Mr. Barke spoke were to be
found in those processions, marching in military
array, which had been seen advancing to meetings
like that of Manchester. Bet it was said that
instead of measures like those eovv proposed con-
ciliation ought to be tried. He had yet to learn
why measures of conciliation could not he resort-
ed to after these Bills had passed, and it would
perhaps be the !store the ditty of Govert►ment
and of that House to turn an ear to their com-
plaints, than if such laws had not been carried.—
He hoped they would then do all in their power
to relieve the distress of the people, and en-
deavour, by improving outecoenexion with South
America, to find new markets for their industry.---
At present it was their duty to remember the pro-
tection which they owed to the loyal, peaceable,
quiet, industrious, and unrepining part of our po-
pulation—to rescue tl►em front the grasp ot un-
principled demagogues, to vindicate our religion,
and uphold the Constitution.

The 9'►estion was loudly called for, and stran-
gers were ordered to withdraw. The gallery was
nearly cleared, when Mr. SCARLETT rose, hut the
calls for strangers to withdraw were so loud and
so long contilmed, that the whole of the visito►s
were excluded, and the gallery doors closed, but
no division took place.

On returning to the Gallery, we found
The SPEAKKa addressing the House on a point
of some motion hi vine been made while strangers
were Gut Gf the Gallery ; the Speaker remarked,
that the grown!. on which it was proposed to
withdraw it were not such as the ordinary prac-
tice and forms of the House would allow it to be
withdrawn upon.

Mr. LAmwroN offered some explanation of Ms
motives for desiring to ►withdraw it, which WEIS
not audible, find the tuntioD was withdrawn.
It wits understood that the motion was for an
Adiournmeot, which Mt. JJAMBTON said he would
press, it it we►e irate►t'ierl to continue the debate
►cith closed doors, It was presumed he offered to
withdraw it on the re-admission o strangers, anti
that this caused the short conversation between
him and the Chair.

A.l ti CAUL ETT said, if he thought this Bill ne-

es3ary to the preservation of the Cons'itution,
te wourl give it his trios, cordi4 stlt,pi.ft ;
brlieving it to be Oirc,ctly the conir.ry, he must
meet it With his most serious and Soienin nosi-
!ion. He would not deny that the stale .he
Country was such as to ,call for some new mea-
sures, but he could not ihiok this ought to pasi,
nor could he approve of -:ny ()titer of the Bilis that
had been sithmitted to Parliament by .iioi,tews.
lie onjected to rite meashies, hey scented
founded in panic and alarm Though there
was some danger, that danger thd not lie in
the meetings themselves. fle of jeered to the
Bill on account of its in:erfereoce with Con .ty
Meetings, and on. account of its. making
many hundreds of persons guilty of felony
ihrough no act of their own, but through the
intrusion of sours wiTh whom they had
no connexion. To st,ppose an extieme case ; a
Magistrate, whose private or political feelings
were .oif,nded by what was passing, might send n
Iverson—a volunteer (he would not say a spy),
make the meolng illegal, and having made his
first proclamation, and waited a quarter of 'all
hour, and then read another proclamation and
waited half au ,our more, those who remained,
if exceeding twelve nomber, were liable ro be
transported for seven yea's. Wi.s this the 1 berry
of Englishmen ? Fite best mode of tranquillizing
the country would he by means. of conciliar ion=--
by (Telling their doors w ide to the peti;ions ,of
!be people, and by endeavouring to redress their
grievances.

The ATTORNBY:.GENERAL could not blit think
that ltit L.eirned Friend had not read. this I 3 tI
with that accurate attention by which he, was
usually distinguished. lie had said that the Int er-
hies, against which this Bill was directed, were
not dangerous in themselves, but were only the
indications of danger. If such were the case,
the House had lost much "time in endeavouring to
put them down, believing-, as they had Mine,
that they were pregnant with danger. His Hon.
and Learned Friend had fallen into a mistake
when be stated that a Meeting might. be dis-
persed by any angle Magistrate, whose private or
political feelings might be offended .by the pro-
-ceedings. He wished ro know where he found
such a provision in the Bill ? If the Learried.Gen-
tleman read it again, lie would find that it con-
tained no such provision. If the Meeting were
intruded upon, the Magistrate might t rder him
into custody, but it was only in the event of re-
sistance being offered to his authority that
the Magistrate had power to disperse the meet-
ing. His Learned Friend had also. said the
Magistrate might disperse a meeting on spe-
culation. No such power was given him by the
Bill. He would merely act on his own responsi-
bility, as the Magistrates did under the Riot Act.
In both cases they must be allowed to exercise a
discretional NT primer. The last objertion of his
Hon. and Learned Friend applied to the intro-
duction of words, which be considered as depriv-
ing trades of the right of meeting, and to illus-
trate this objection, the Woollen Trade had, been
mentioned. Now what was there in the Bill to
prevent the gentlemen of that trade from meeting
in the Town-hall of Leeds ? Did not the mea-
sure leave all meetings within doors unsl:a, kled ?
It was not necessary for any trade to meet in the
open air, to the number of 10,000. They might
discuss their interests as well, if not bener, within
rooms, where the provisions of the Bill-allowed
them to assemble when they chose, and as litely
and numerously as they pleased.

Mr. Scetieerr, in explanation, contended, that
it was improper to invest Magistrates with the
power which the Bill gave (beta. Men might
differ as to what tended to excite sedition, and
gross abuses of power be thus committed. He
had once been counsel for a man of the name of
Lloyd, who was charged with an attempt to ex-
cite di,affection to his Majesty's person, because
he bad said, " Damn all COrporations," and for
such an offence the man had been convicted, and
had suffered two years' imprisonment.
The ATTotteee-Cleteeeee explaieed.
Mr. DANNIAN repeated the objections which he
had urged in the Committee, to the elenee which
enab:ed one Magistrate to disperse a meeting,
though called by the Sheriff or Lord Lieutenant
of a county. This was entirely superseding the
authority of the Sheriff. He also strongly corn-
bated the clause indemnifying Magistrates for any
deaths which might have ensued from the disper-
sion of the meetings. His Hon. and Learned
Friend (the Solicitor-Generai) had contended
that the Riot Act gave Magistrates the same
power of using force to disperse a popular
assembly. This he poSitively denied. The pre-
sent clause was a fraud upon the House, and went
to justify acts of violence committed by Magis-
trates. His Hon. and Learned Friend tied also
maintained that the Commission of the Peace in-
vested Magistrates with the saute power, and had
quoted a statute of Henry VII. to that purpose.
few there was no such statute, and lie conceiv-
ed that it was one of Henry IV. chapter 7, to
which allusion had been meant. But even this
statute did not give the power of forcible dis-
persion. The ',resew clause was therefore the only
provision which invested Magistrates by itnpli.
cation with the right of cointnicting oienslaiightere
Let not the House forget that the measure was
connected with others tending, to overthrow ail
that was valuable in the Constitution of the
Cl untry ; that it proceeded froths Cabinet, where
the propriety of establishing a Censorship of the
Press bad be discussed ; and that the tendency
of :he whole was to increase the evils which it
professed an iwention to repress,—(Hear, bear !)
Mr. R. MARTIN stated, that the Irish MeMbers
had come over to defend the Constitution of the
Unitary. He acknowledged that he was in sorne
degree an alarmist, and conceived that great dan-
ger would ensile to the Constitivioe of England
and Ireland if the present measines did nut pass.
He complained, that us it. was now sure stle
would pass into a Law, it was acting improperly
towards the people. to teach them to beliee th .t
the system under which they would have to flee
Was

The Soucurott-GENERAL asked his Hon. and
Leatned Friend opposi.e, on what winds, or
what shadow wt (muds he had brought a charge
of so grave a nature against Its Majesty',
as to say :hit they bad di•vossett the proptictv of
imposing a Censorship upon the Press ? Time ►vas