The Sun.
London, England, 1821-06-07 00:00:00

Air. EntllAm said, that in justice to the Colo-

nies every opportunitity should be afforded them
to state their complaints and have them investi-
gated, and from the unfeigned respect be en-
tertained for the Noble Lord, he was sorry that
his warmth had led him into a, general statement,
which must in a great measure depend upon
vague assertions, instead of confining himself/
to particular examples. He must also protest
against attaching any importance to the charges
of an anonymous accuser. This, he thought, '
was objectionable in every point of view: If
he were an honest man he would manfully
come forward and make his charges, but he
could never approve of the principle of" spar-
sere voces in vulgus amblguas." He also com-
plained of the principle of attacking the
whole system of Government in consequence
of the improper conduct of some, of the
Magistrates. Apply that, for instance., to Ire-
land. If the Magistrates of ,a part of Ireland
had violated their duty, or were guilty of any
improper conduct, was that a reason why we
should fall foul of the whole people of Ireland?
He compared the - situation of the British and
French West India Islands, contending that the
French planter had greatly the advantage over
the British. With respect to the Sunday mar-
ket, it had been wished to abolish it, but the
slaves themselves were adverse to it. With
respect. to admitting the evidence of slaves in
Courts of Justice, he contended that circum-
stances were not yet sufficiently, matured to
render that expedient. if they were prema- '
turely admitted to give evidence, the conse-
quences would be rather injurious-than beneficial to
them, as-they would be heard but not credited.
As the charges were so general, he contended
that the inquiry ought to extend to all the West
India Islands. He concluded by moving, as an
amendment, a Resolution, " That the House
would, early next Session, appoint a Select Com-
mittee, to inquire into the Administration of Jus-
tice in the West India islands." . •
Sir J. MAcxtxTosn contended that a case had
been made out, calling for an inquiry into the
state of the administration of justice in the
island of Tobago. lie referred to the- cases
stated by his Noble Friend, and argued that
they showed the operation of a general system
of injustice in that colony. Th object here
was not to accuse any individuals, but to show
the system on which the Government_ and
the Judicature proceeded: If Parliament did not
controul the Colonial Judicatures, they would be
liable to become corrupt. Unenlightened Judges
were generally unfriendly to Parliamentary in-
vestigations : but in this country particularly,
the result of them was found to be eminently
beneficial. He alluded to Mr. Capper's case,
and expressed his conviction that the accusation of
that individual was not, could not have been,
well received in the West India Islands. That

individual, it appeared, had made use of some in-
discreet expressions at the table of the prosecutor,
where he had dined, and sat from one o'clock to
half-past nine in the evening. Under such
cumstances, it was almost the duty of the host to
excuse any expressions which his guest might
have made use of, particularly after that guest
had made the most humble apology.. What
would the House say to a man, who could go the
next morning, refuse the apology that was of-
fered, and prosecute an individual for words
uttered in such a situation.—(Hear, hear I)—The
lion. and Learned Gentleman concluded. with
wishing his Hon. Friend (Mr. Barham) to con-
fine his Resolution to the Island of Tobago ;
and if that was done, he would vote for it.
Mr. MAitnyari said, though it had been pro-
posed that the Committee called for should be
one, not, of condemnation, but of inquiry, in this
instance inquiry and condemnation had been seen
to go hand in hand. Ile denied that it was correct
to assume that the administration of justice could
not be impartial in the small West India Islands.
lie had lived in one of them ten years, and
had three times had occasion to go into a Court
of Justice. One of his accusations was brought
against the President of the Island, another
against one of the Judges, who was at the same
time the largest landed proprietor in the Island.
In both cases he had obtained• verdicts, which
Could not have happened had the system been
such as to preclude a humble individual from
obtaining redress when aggrieved. The propo-
sition for a sort of ambulatory or sailing commis-
sion to administer justice in all the West India
Islands,' he thought 'very objectionable. Many
accidents might occur, and all the Judges and
Barristers might be carried over to the Spanish
Main when they were wanted in the Colonies,
and the administration of justice in allour West In-
dia Islands might be completely at a stand. Ile
should not object to a Commission being sent out
to inquire into the al ninistrzz..tion oeTobago, but
the appointment of a' Select Committee, either in
this or the next Session of Parliament, would cer-
tainly meet with his opposition.
Mr. WILBERFORCE thought, from the facts
which had been stated, the presumption was,that
acts- of gross impropriety had occurred; And was

of opinion that some inquiry ought to take place.
This he thought due even to the individuals who
were under consideration. The inquiry would,
he thought, be better prosecuted in this countr ,
and he therefore hoped the amend ent of t
N
Hon. Gentleman, if limited to inqu - into . '..
defects of'-the Adnistratiouleg Mt:
ioba ' ir11444
'belagreed to by the 'louse.
Mr. BARHAM explained. ' '
Mr. J. P. GRANT said, if the present Amendment were
negatived, he would move one, pledging the House to the ap., . ,
pomtment of a Committee to inquire into the state, of Tobago,
early in the next Session of Parliament.
After a few words from the SPEAKER allft.Mr. J; P. GRANT.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH said, his Noble Friend would with-
draw hiernotion,-and his Hon. Friend (111r.13arfrAm) his amend-
ment, so that the house would then be perfectly at liberty to
adopt the suggestion which he had ventured to throw out.
Mr. BARHAM.withdrew his amendment., .
Mr. GOULIII/RN said, that before the House went to a di-
vision upon this question, he wished to give his reasons for the
intended vote he to give.
The -SPEAKER. said, that the imendMent intended' to
stand must be proposed. before the Hon. Member could speak
upon •
NUGENT expressed his willingneSs to give Istphis
Lord it.
original motion, and to support the amendment for a Resolu-
tion of the House to go into a Committee upon the subject early
in the next Session.
The original motion was then Withdrawn," mid a Resolatiorz
to the foregoing effect was moved by the Noble Lord.
Mr. GOULBURN said, that he was not averse from in.: .
ifuiry,into the state of the island ; to prove which, he was ready
to support the appointment of a Commission -to be sent out to
make that inquiry. He must, however, object to that House-
pledging itself to go into a Committee, which must drag the Go-
vernor and the whole Government of the island over to this
country. .
Lord.NUGENT said he objected to any inquiry that should
be carried on within the limited sphere of the society of one of
the small ',Vest India Islands. - , •
The House then divided, when there appeared--
For the Resolution - - , .'• - -fig
. .
- Against it -- ', , _ • _ ..
.. 105
. Majority
GRANT TO THE DUKE OF CLARE)I►CE. -
On re-entering the Gallery, we found the Marquess of LON-
DONDERRY on his legs. He stated, that he had a comn.u-
nication to make to the House on the part of his Royal High-
ness
fAu rptrhile
,r ,11811 e
oi wishedshould thatb e . s
the Duke of Clarence, sanctioned (as was understood) by
beforeou
House
-
. ....
:Majesty.
Resolutionaj esty .
But
tt
the ll
hthiseof proceeded
the lffth
read by the Clerk. • ,
,
The Clerk read the Resolution, the purport of which was.
that it had been resolved by the Committee, that an additional
allowance of 6081. a year should he granted oat of the Conso-
lidated Fund to his Royal Highness. the Duke of Clarence, ou.
his marriage.
The MarqueSs of LONDONDERRY • then said that it
would be in the recollection of the House, that when it had thus
made what it considered to he a suitable provision for his- Royal.
HighneSs, he declined availing himself of it at that tinie upon
grounds, which were certainly highly creditable to his feelings.
His Royal Highness nuw found it desirable, and under existing
circumstances it was not inconsistent with his fowler condtect, . !
to receive the provision. which Parliament in its liberality ha ,
granted. The Noble Marquis therefore stated his intention of 's
imposing to carry into effect the grant which the Rouse had at
that time made. He now gave notice that, the proceedinP
having originated regularly in a Message from the Crown, lie
should Move that the resolution which had beea read should be
referred to a Committee of the whole House on Friday next.
Mr. HUME begged to ask whether, this being a new Parlia-
ment, a specific Message from thecrown ought.not to have beer:
sent down upon the subjeet ? He thought it ought also to be
ascertained,' whether his late Majesty had not left property be-
hind. him, out of which his Royal Highness the Duke of Clar-
ence might be provided for, without saddling-the consolidated'
Fund with a charge. which it was unable to hear ?
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY observed, that ques-
tions of this nature would come more properly under the con-
sideration of the. House when the question was fairly befOrc
*them. With respect to the other objection, namely, a specific •
message from the Crown, it would he in the recollection of the,
'House, that the provision for the late' Princess of Wales hail
been voted from £35,000 to £50,808 a year, without any such
message. . .
Mr. FORBES begged leave to inquire.of the Noble Marquess
whether a provision was to be made for his Royal Highness the
Duke of Cumberland. He hoped if these subjects were again
coming before the House, that there would be. no objection
urged to that upon the ground of ellarsett4,' ..- —.`' - i
The Marquess of LONIX)NDERRY rose amidst cries °
" Order." He would submit to the House whether it was o'..
pedient to raise an argument of so vet y, delicate a nature °P°l3
an occasion.like the present. This was entirely a new meal,/
and wholly unconnected with any former transaction. Ile f
hope that the Hon. Member would not persist in the kind °
remarks which had fallen from him.: , A
Mr. FORBES was aware that this wi; a new measure. a.”..11
so might he a grant to the Duke of Cumberland. He could see
the ?.stoble Marquess, that he should only vote for the allowa7.,',
to the Duke of-Clarence after a similar one to the Duke of Ga-T,,
berland had been made. He considered that that Royal 1r;44,s
had,not a Sufficient allowance is a bachelor; and as one or.
Blood Royal he was as much entitled to provision as the res,teil
Sir I. COFFIN said he must protest against any right vinti.ef
- entitled the Members of' the Royal Blood •to provision. -I'.'*is
were-entitled only to what the Parliament thought proPf?. a
grant, and which he had no doubt would at all times be sin.sso
to their dignity, and correspondent to the affection which /.
entertained toward the Royal Family. 41
it wasput sli
After a few words from Mr. N. CALvERT,
carried, that the House should on Friday next resolve.it: of
into a Committee of the whole House, upon the Resolutlon
the 16th of 'April, 1818.
SAMERICAN LOYALIST. • . 0
;c
Mr. WM.. COURTENAY rose, porsttant to nix not. roe,
bring forward his motion on the subject of the Claims of f' ea-
rican Loyalists. !The Honourable and GentleninT,? the
tered at length into a detail of the suffering* and losses cn the
Claimants, in consequence of their adherence to thecattse or,e,i,
British Government during the American War. He conte :o.e,
on every gpnind of sound policy and. of good faith, they csa-
entitled to the compensation which they sought for. ile..kog
eluded by moving for a Select Committee to consider the In:eost-
compensation to American Loyalists, now remaining °•11
pensated. Arii
Sir SCROPE B. MORLAND seconded the motiofuli, :
iitid,'thal-the'honottr of the Country was -involved in e•4O
tisfying the claims of these Individuals. The strongeStl3 l 001;
of the Government and the Country had been' given to , ,11.
Their case had • been improperly mixed up witit that 'OllO
British Merchants, but stood on very different and
_e Pin:
asked for the fulfilment of to 0 ',
stronger grounds. They t.
mists made to them, and their claim could not be put. h 1
,15
out a breach offaith and die gn)ssest injustice. eviati
Mr. BARING said that it. the elairns of these in"l the''
et 0,
were just, he hoped no Gentleman would scruple to all-e/c a' r,
upon the ground of our present inability to pay,thetn..., Anosel f
however, doubtful whether the demands. made were gn,.`tio,4
justice. The Hon. Member remarked:upon the procee _ A
the Commission of 1783, and said that it ended by to
being dissatisfied, and at last a siiiii'O'firidney*lia-pu,'4l.s 0..,,,
to our Commissioners to cover the, whole claims. .J.-,p 01u,,i,
equally distributed, and he could not see but the Dr,,L.lo„ein;,
chants had as much right to- further compensation as t1;-.0-011,,,
victuals. If they had separate claims put in bx,tbepo' by 'a;
sioners, those claims were considered to be provided ' dens'
article in the Treaty of Peace. At any rate their ~..t
should have been made forty years ago. Aiion ":
itici the't
Mr. W. WY NN said, that from the-best cons
‘,11,,0at
was able to give the case of those persons, he tilu '. „a
claims wore founded in good policy and in justice:
....„,sent Pti,
. Mr. MONEY contended, that. the British Goyt it'ile still,,,
solemnly pledged itself to give ample protection toe
the floileTri,
can Loyalists; the persons whose claims were befor
__, weee
after their sufferings, their hopes, and their devott7_,. i
_ii
titled to the sympathy and consideration of 'lndian! 'the Astel-rio
Mr. WILBERFORCE supported the motion °Tis for ivnt.'he
that a promise had been made, and that the persor
and by f•-•
t
relief was asked, were allowed both by Parliarnen '' _
.„.„.4,
Americans themselves to be suffering Loyalists-ER said rts Pi./ ,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCID;Qi„ that Hot hilt .
justice, and liberality would never be refused
_d pl edge vs;sl,
Every one who supported the claims
of the Bill °f 11 ois
he contended was not given in.the preamble
.ise,,, lt, was t, es
The Commanders of the army Made large 1
Wilonsideredin st-liep
but then the success of the result was afways
- frocred a d,PreciAsiii°
promises. Every subject of this country snow
euts of tilos= -,0
of' his property by that war, and if the aro.
,_...s
they wouiqt,:d
supported these claims were good foron Itrujowygaiis's,-7 not
.thc,l;
to the extent of freeing the American
tte national calamine.;
only, from any part of the burdeno
of the Bill .of
He contended , that the
only promised such relief as thet .
which had already 'oeenpreambleCiuntry might b 2 able :0 a.
granted..,
..
abets had -received compensation iii
r,.,
vary small amount. TNone of tli.s Atnericar: ,-
full, e.x,s2pt dainlJ r.
:::,,, were co:1 :0'
These who suffered,,i,, i.e. ~,,
a.
..„.,. tIA 4q
I sated in very' synall tfrOportion to their loses:
..r,;_li. E,,,,t;Es2:,ts,
mpensecl Before. s'as a.ttr,'"
now made had not been reco ,

to the injustice of the American, and not. of out own Govern-
ment. To use the words of the Act of 1783, the Loyalists had
received such relief as their services entitled them to, • and the
country could best afford.
Mr. W. SMITH supported the claims of the loyalists, and
thought, upon every principle of national honour and good
faith, that they ought to be granted. , There were £130,000
per annum granted m compensations to persons connected with
the Ordnance, Victualling, and Navy Offices, and surely the
country could afford a single £lOO,OOO to -s,-- eons who had
risked their lives and wasted their blood arid property hi the•
service of the country.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained.
Mr. COURTENAY replied.
The question was loudly called for, and the House divided—
For the motion - - - - 77 •
Against it - - - - - 60
Majority for the Bill - —l7
When we entered the Gallery, we found Mr. HUSKISSON
on his legs, objecting on some point of form to a motion which
had been made by Mr. Courtenay, for going into a Committee
to prepare an Address to the King.
Mr. HUME said, that as the House had agreed to the prin-
ciple of the Grant, the House might proceed to carry its wishes
into effect, as in all other cases.
Mr. WY NN said, that after the Address had been agreed to,
the House might pass a-separate Bill of Appropriation, as they
did in the case of Mr. Palmer's grant.
Mr. W. SIIIITH supported the motion.
Mr. CREEVEY proposed an adjournment, on the ground
of the lateness of the hour.
After a short conversation between Mr. Vansittart, Mr.
Courtenay, Mr. Bankes, Mr. Baring, Mr. P. Moore, and Mr.
Creevev, Mr. Courtenay consented, on account of the lateness
of the hour, to withdraw his motion.
•

HORSE TAX..
Mr. CURWEN postponed his motion on the Agricultural
Horse Tax to to-morrow (this day.)
YORKSHIRE POLLS BILL.
Lord MILTON having moved. the order of the day for the
second feading of the above Bill.,
• Mr. DEN lAN expressed his wish that his Noble Friend
would postpone the second reading of the. Bill to a period when
it could receive more ample discussion than it possibly could at
that late hour of the night.
Mr. C. WYNN suggeated that it would. be desirable for the
Noble Lord not to attempt to pass this measure during the pre-
sent Session. If the Noble Lord would consent to postpone the
third reading of the Bill, he (Mr. Wynn) would not object to
its going into a Committee.
Mr. BROUGHAM, after speaking in favour of the principle
of the Bill, expressed his hope that his Noble Friend would ac-
cede to the proposition of the Hon. andbearned Gentleman.
Lord M ILTON then expressed his intention not to carry the
measure into effect till next Session.—The Bill was read a se-
cond time, and ordered to be committed on Friday.—The
House then Adjourned at Two o'ClOck.