The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-02 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

On the motion- for going 'into Committee of Supply,
• Mr.: S. CRAWFORD rose to move an amendment
on the subject ofthe °petitions presented to that House,
complaining 'that the House of. Commons did not repre-
sent the people. The, substance of those petitions was
contained in a petition which was, presented, a short
time ago, from the town of Birmingham. The allega-
tions in that. petition mere—firstly, that' that
House did not represent the people' ;
.secondly,
that it did -not poSseSs• the confidence of the
people ; thirdly, that a large number 'of Mem-
bers had notoriously obtained their seats -by the most
profligate bribery and- corruption ; -fourthly, that the
proceedings of that House were obviously-influenced by
selfish, personal, and party motions, rather than by the
interests of the people. These. were. the allegations
contained in that petition which had been laid on the
table of the. House. He was much surprised,,in refer-
ring to the Sournals, 'to find that this important .flocu-
ment bad not been published by the Committee on Peti-
tions. _ There had been. 31 petitions presented during the
present session, all complaining of grievances. and he
had only found that one of those petitions had been pub-
-lished. His proposition was for a Select Committee to
inquire into the subject of those petitioni, and to make a
report thereon. If that House did represent the people,
why did they not boldly and at once declare that the
allegations contained in thOie petitions were unfounded?
He was not now going to advocate the extension of
the franchise, although he thought the franchise ought
to be extended. He should merely confine himself on
the present occasion to the subject- of the petition to
which he had adverted. So long as the impression ex-
isted in the minds of the people that.- they-were not re-
presented in that House, so long would there be resist-
ance to the law ; and, under- such circumstances,
the only means by which the Government in this
country could be carried- on would be that
of an. 'extensive military force.—(Hear.) He was
surprised to hear the Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr.
T. Duncombe) express his objection to this motion, be-
cause he himself • had taken-a precisely similar course.
He (Mr. S: Crawford) could assure the House that it
was not his intention to adopt any factious proceeding,
nor should he pursue any course which he thought not'
calculated -to 'be -attended with success. He should,
however, on all occasions when the arniy estimates were
proposed, move that the military force of this country
be reduced, and he should persist in such motions until
the grievances of the people were redressed. The Hon.
'Member conclnded moving-",That the several peti-
tions which have been received and laid on the table of
this House since the commencement of the session, com-
plaining that this House is not-a true representation of
the. people, be referred to a Select Committee to inquire
into the said allegation ; and that the further considera-
tion of the. Estimates be postponed till such Committee
shall report thereon." •
Mr. BLLWITT seconded 'the motion. Every day's
'experience convinced him that that Rollie merely legis-
lated for themselves, and this was more particularly
shown in the late discussions on the Horse Racing
Penalties Bill, which had been introduced for the pur-
pose of screening, on the plea of ignorance .of the law,
certain 'high personages who had violated the law. • He
would likelo know how a plea of ignorance of the law
would avail a poor wretch- on his trial in' a. criminal
.court. Would that plea relieve him from the verdict
of the jury or diminish his punishment? The born-laws,
too, were impo'sed merely to pat money in the
pockets of the landlords by depriving the'poor of bread.
.The House then divided, when there appeared.
For.the motion. l5
Against it • 9l
- Majority —76
SUPPLY:- •

• The HonSe then - resolved "itself into a Committee of
Supply. ,
On the vote that 594,370/ be granted for the vic-
tualling of seamen• and the marine forces.
Dr. BOWRING thou ght;that when the House was called
upon to vote away more than half a. million Of money,
they should haVe some information in detail to justify.
them in giving theirasSent to it.
.The House ought 'to
know how so large a sum was applied.
Captain PECHELI4-oppospd the employment of the
naval force..in ~the collection, of poor-rates.
.Several'
ships of. war .had. been employed, at Castlehar, on the
coast of • Galway, in conveying .land-lubbers of police,
from place to place: The • marine force . had •like wise •
been employed in the same disgraceful manner. Lord
Lucan declared, that he would encourage. opposition .to.
the collection of anew poor-rate, whilst the old. one re-
mained unpaid, and in this most unpopular and deSpotic
service were her. Majesty's 'ships, of war 'engaged. • The
Hon. and Gallant Member proceeded to 'censure the
Admiralty for not bringing the principle of theArehime-
dian screw into more general operation. The Rattler; •
which' was announced by the Right Hon. Gentleman
'opposite, to have been ready along time ago was not yet •
completed, but was employed. in running. up and down
the river, testing the efficacy of Mr. Brunel's experi,
meas. The Archimedian screw had been employed in
the United States with great success, and one of the vessels
which accompanied the Royal Yacht- from Treport, was
found to .• be only surpassed by her Majesty's
own vessel. 'He congratulated the Board of Ad-
miralty on the appointment'. ••of Mr. • Hall,
most officer, to the post of Coinmander in the
navy; and to a situation in her 'Majesty's yacht. They
were now going to raise 2,000 boys for the navy, but, after
three years, their
.term ceased, and he was .glad to see
'that many of them and their friends, were most anxious
that -they should. be re-entered. . Each boy , that was
taken was obliged to be 981bs. in weight,
.and most of
those . who were reared, in. the. .Gilbert. unions . were
round tb be qualified .in that imp; .-but, .unfortunately,
the great part of those .from the . other poor-law unions,
were. found beneath: that weight.. What he was most
anxious for was-that those young men; after their term
of service had expired, should 'not be thrown upon the
streets Without the- slightest - resource, and be conse
quently'compelled, -in the greater number of • cases, to .
adopt a course- of dishonesty and crime. He did hope
that the Admiralty would, look. closely to the 10-gun
brigs, for;' he:considered them to be. perfectly valuelss.
It was true the Admiralty., in disposing,nf them, endea-
voured 'lO:inak:e the most. of thetn—.(A laugh)—for, -
altliough,,they :demanded :1000!. for each, they 'could'
.notiigpt;meie..than 500/. for any ono of theM.
S:IF:TAMES -COCKBURN in reply to the. question
.which had:been put to him respecting- the emploYment
oft,the bliicers bflier.-Majesty's 'navy in collecting the
=poor-rates,' 'said that if any officer went collect
Arta he cer4inlY misundprstood his instructions::: The
-only' object ;sTias-..that wherever along, the. coast disturb-
ance or:e:vit,einent prevailed lthe..ilpet. was, stationed,
and it4resen:Ce,in thp neigbliourliood where those rates
~were-being:tc,ollecied,Juight baVe led to the surmise.
However, tf,ha _could, find out an officer who did so, an
investigation ,would at. once •be entered into upon • the
subject. 'With regard to steam-,boata generally, the
.present administration of the Admiralty were doing all
they could to improve them,' and they were -endeavour-
ing tb.findout what construction might prove to 'be the
• best. He believed that after all that liad•been said they
could turn out a better set of. steam-boats than cOhldte
turned out on the other side. With respect to the dis •
charging of boys when the ships were paid off, he could
only say, that the service required that a certain amount
of men mus.Q.)e kept up. But he. would be very glad
to retain the boys,
if his Right Hon. Friend the. Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would allow it.—(Hear, hear,
and a laugh.) . He thought that it was very useful
that men who had entered into: - her Majesty's
service for a certain term should go round to • the
merchant service, and come back again when wanted
into thenitivy. That course of circulation•prOvided the.
merchant service. with good Ten, whom the Geyernment
would have hack again whenever they were wanted.
However, tied as the Admiralty was, it could not do
otherwise in respect to the boys. ,As to the captains'
`Clerks; he had- never heard uny. .complaints: from:them;
and he was sure alit it there were any grounds of dom-
plaint they would have been preferred before the Com-