The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-24 00:00:00

Vbirb Vitittion

SUN OFFICE, Seven o'Clock.

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS.

FROX THE EVENING PAPERS OF THIS DAT.
GLOBE.—We may now, we think, consider our-
selves as pretty completely justified in the intention
we expressed of calling certain assertions by no other
name than Ferrands,—although there is a name
shorter by one syllable for assertions of the sort we
allude to. On any point, therefore, referring to the
Poor-law or Factory question, whenever an assertion
may be put forth in any quarter, which neither
proof nor probability—neither document nor fact
of any kind can be brought to vouch—whenever
an assertion is put forth which no man of honour
would have made, without anything to adduce
as its ground, or any idea that the only alternative
for a man of honour is to support or retract his words
—to state on what supposed ground he uttered them,
or apologise for them, as words which should not
have been uttered—whenever such assertion shall
come before us in future, thus gross, thus unsupported
—we shall be saved a world of trouble in describing
its character, by simply treating it as a " Ferrand.
Ferrand and his friends are, indeed, right worthy of
each other; and we rejoice to have found so succinct
an expression for the style of assertion characteristic
of them as of him. The Times, Post, and Herald are
quite at a loss to imagine how it should be expected
that their valuable friend should justify in one place
what he said in another. Sufficient for the day
is the statement thereof; what Mr. Ferrand said
to operatives at one time, he could not expect
gentlemen to call him to account for at another.
There is something to be said in favour of this view
of the matter ; and it has at least the advantage of
setting, for all future time, all assertions of. Mr. Fer-
rand (endorsed, as the case may be, by Times, Post,
or Herald) at their just value. Those who like to
take such inconvertible currency may. He and they
may fly any more such kites as they think proper;
their reciprocal attestations will henceforth only
make the most predestined dupes. The citation
of Mr. Ferrand's authority will render quite
harmless anything else that follows ; and the
broadsides of the Times and his othr confede-
. rates will flash a mere brutum fulmezt, whenever
they seek to blaze away in future with Ferrands in
lieu of facts. Thank heaven, one " tall bully" at
least may henceforth " lift his head and lie," as un-
challenged as the old original monument—and for the
same reason. We have always thought it a pity the
old flagrant inscription brazens it out no longer ; and
we should think it a still greater pity that Mr. Fer-
rand should henceforth be treated by any one as an
accountable being. There are varieties of vermin
which feed on each other ; there are newspaper agita-
tions which require such pabulum as the speeches,
and which nourish, in turn, the notoriety of a
Ferrand.
STANDARD.—The unpleasant and unprofitable
scene of Monday night was last night renewed in the
House of Commons. Mr. Ferrand, who, it will be
remembered, made a promise to examine the reports
of the speeches ascribed to him and then to disclaim
or avow his charges against Sir James Graham and
Mr. Hogg, declared that he had read the reports and
found them faithful, and having reiterated his convic-
tion of the truth of his charges, walked out of the
House. The scene that followed illustrates in a re-
markable manner the extreme impropriety and incon-
venience of the meddling of Messrs. Roebuck, Hume,
and Ward. Mr. Ferrand had made two grave charges,
of the utter injustice of which we are as fully con-
vinced, as we are of Mr. Ferrand's bozzajide sincerity in
advancing them ; but they were charges from their
very nature incapable of specific proof, for who can
establish in evidence the motive of a judge, or trace
from the lips of witnesses the influence of a Mi-
nister ? For this reason a cool and discreet man,
which Mr. Ferrand is not, will carefully ab-
stain from making such charges ; for the same rea-
son a zealous and bold man, which Mr. Ferrand is,
will be prompt to make them and will be
freely forgiven for making them ; and for all these
reasons, such charges rarely do harm to any one,
never to men of such established high character as
the Home Secretary and the Member for Beverley.
This seems to have been the view of the matter
taken by Sir James Graham and Mr. Hogg, who
left the charges of Mr. Ferrand's speech unanswered
and unnoticed, until the officious zeal of Messrs.
Roebuck, Hume, and Ward suggested the policy of
putting them into form as a distinct impeachment,
and bringing that impeachment by a certiorari pro-
cess of their own into the House of Commons.
This, we say, Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, and
Ward had no right to do, and this we say,
with all respect, the Speaker ought not to have
permitted them to do. The House of Commons
has work enough to do, and duties of sufficiently
high importance to discharge, without looking after
the conduct of its Members out of doors, except where
the laws of the country have pronounced upon that
conduct, or, as in the case of Mr. O'Connell's slander,
where some direct attack is made upon the House
itself in its collective character. If Members
are to be followed abroad by the censorial appa-
ritors of Parliament, in order to compel them to
give an account of their reports of other Mem-
bers of whom they may speak, Parliament will
soon have enough to do. There were but few,
if any, of the monster meetings last summer at which
Mr. Daniel O'Connell did not deal out tolerably
coarse and minute charges against Members of both
Houses of Parliament, but we do not remember that
Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Hume, or Mr. Ward, ever thought
it necessary to require the Member for Cork to
repeat those charges in the House of Commons, and
substantiate them by proofs. True, Mr. O'Connell
is a chartered slanderer, and Mr. Ferrand is a man
of honour ; but surely the mistakes of a man of honour
are entitled to as much indulgence as the deliberate
slanders of one of an opposite character ; and one
constantly indulged case opposing it, is decisive
against any rule. We repeat it, then, that Messrs.
Roebuck, Hume, and Ward had no right to
bring Mr. Ferrand's Leeds speech under the notice
of _Parliament, and that the Speaker ought
not to have permitted the introduction of the
subject. When, however, the subject was intro-
duced, neither Mr. Ferrand, Sir J. Graham, nor Mr.
Hogg had any choice as to how each ought to act.
'Mr. Ferrand ought to avow or to disavow
the speech. at Leeds ascribed to him in the news-
papers. Sir James. Graham and Mr. Hogg ought
to show themselves ready to vindicate their cha-
racters ; and this is pretty much what has been done.
Mr. Ferrand avows the speech, and being forced
to answer, professes that he adheres to the opinions
conveyed in it. It is, however, going too far
to treat this avowal of the speech and of its
opinions as a pledge to substantiate anything by
' evidence. Neither at Leeds, we believe, nor cer-
tainly in the House of Commons, did Mr. Ferrand
give, any such pledge. The charges, as we
have intimated, are hardly of the same kind
that admit of specific proof, and were they dif-
ferent, the House of Commons has too often ex-
pressly, by implication, and by an unhappy prac-
tice, condemned itself as a judicial tribunal for
any man to look for a just judgment from it,
more especially in a matter in which strong
party feeling must have place. It is unjust,
therefore, to treat Mr. Ferrand es one who
flies from an accusation that be has pledged him-
self to support. As to Sir James Graham and Mr.
Hogg, they have acted as might have been ex-
pected from their high spirit, integrity, and
good sense, and from the tranquillity they main-
tained until Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, and Ward
" blew the coal." Sir James Graham lets the matter
rest, and Mr. Hogg seems to have been disposed to
imitate the Right Hon. Baronet, except for an insinu-
tion in the Times of yesterday ; this insinuation our
contemporary has very handsomely withdrawn this
this morning,
and therefore we trust that the business
will go no further, and that Messrs. Roebuck, Hunie,
and Ward will be disappointed.

STATE OF TRADE.
(From the Manchester Guardian of this day,)
There was no material change in our market yester
day. Perhaps, upon the whole, yarn was a little steadier
. in price than last week, and rather more business was
done, principally on Russian account. In goods, with
the exception of shirtings, and other fabrics suitable for
the East Indies, which continue in good demand, there
was not much business doing, and, though prices are
generally firm, in some few cases trifling reductions
were submitted to by manfacturers.
ROCHDALE FLANNEL MARKET, MONDAY, APRIL 22.
—There has been a rather quiet market to-day, some-
what similar to those of the two last weeks. It has
been, what is called " Little Monday," and in general
fewer buyers attend. The business transacted has been
upon a limited scale, and prices have undergone little or
no change. The wool market still continues dull, and
prices stationary.
IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
(THIS EVENING.)
•
• HOUSE OF COMMONSo ..
The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hur.
NEW MEMBER.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD took the oaths and his
seat for Woodstock.
Mr. DENNISTOUN presented petitions against the.
Prisons Bill, from the Magistrates and Councils of
Olastbw, Rutherglen, and Renfrew, from the Glasgow
- Itinemeipatinn Society, against the admission of sugar
produced by slave labour, and from the Merchants and
Bankers of-Glasgow, for the Repeal of the Duties on
Cotton Wool.
-MASTERS AND SERVANTS BILL.
GIBSON presented a petition from Nottingham
stainst tfio Master and Servants Bill.
Mr. AGLIONBY presented a petition from Cocker-
- mouth.
• bir. -DrizETT presented a petition from Exeter to' the
PM ere"

COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE BILLS.
Mr. GREENE as Chairman of the Committee of Se-
lection begged leave to state to the House, that some in-
convenience had been occasioned to the persons inter-
ested in the Hull Docks Bill, in consequence of the
agents not having received notice of the adjournment of
the House and the Committee till Friday. That Com-
mittee had been appointed for Thursday, and as it could
not sit on that day, ho now moved that it should have
leave to sit on Friday.—Ordered.
An Hon. Member presented a petition from a place in
Tyrone in favour of Presbyterian marriages.
The Briti,h Iron Company Bill was read a third time
and passed.

SUGAR DUTIES.
Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from Exeter, pray-
lig for the admission of sugar the produce of free labour.
Lord HOWICK presented a similar petition from
Sutherland.
Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition to the same
effect from Kendal.
COAL DUTIES,—COTTON DUTY.
Lerd HOWICK presented a petition from the Town
Council of Sutherland, praying for the repeal of the
export duty on coal.
Lord SANDON presented a petition from the manu-
facturers of Heywood, in Lancashire, praying for the
repeal of the duty upon the importation of raw cotton.
THE CHARITABLE PAWN SOCIETY.

Lord SANDON presented a petition from the pawn-
brokers of Liverpool against the Charitable Pawn So-
cieties Act.
Mr. HAWES presented a similar petition, but the
names of the petitioners were not heard in the gallery.
Mr. TATTON EGERTON presented a petition
against any alteration in the Bishoprics of Bangor and
St. Asaph:
Mr. DICKENSON presented a petition from a regis-
tra4in Somersetshire, praying that Taunton might be
placed in schedule C in the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill.
NEW ZEALAND.
Mr. AGLIONBY said, that on Friday evening last,
when the estimates were before the Committee, a consi-
derable part of the discussion arose on the subject of
New Zealand, the state of the Colony, and the manage-
ment of the Company's affairs. He then implored the
Government to grant an inquiry, and the Noble Lord
at the head of the Colonial Department acknowledged
that the matter was a very important one and as ha be-
lieved that the Noble Lord would not object to the ap-
pointment of a Select Committee, he now begged to
move that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire
into the state of the Colony of New Zealand, and the
proceedings of the Company, the said Committee to re •
port its proceedings to the House.
Mr. LABOUCHERE thought that the consent of the
Colonial Secretary was not alone necessary. The House
ought also to decide whether the subject was of impor-
tance enough for a Select Committee, and was entitled
to have some notice of the motion.
Mr. AGLIONBY said the blame of not having given
notice was entirely his own ; he would comply with the
suggestion of the Hon. Member, and give notice of his
motion for Friday next.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Sir R. PEEL moved that the House at its rising do
adjourn till Friday next.—Agreed to.
NOTICES OF MOTION.
LORD LIEUTENANTCY OF IRELAND.
Mr. HUME gave notice that he would, on this day
fortnight, bring forward the motion of which be had
given notice respecting the abolition of the Lord Lieu-
tenantcy of Ireland.
ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL.

Mr. BORTHWICK gave notice that, on the motion
ior going into Committee on the Ecclesiastical Courts
Bill, he would move that the House resolve itself into the
same Committee on that day six months.—(Laughter.)
FACADE OF THE BRITISH MUSEUM.
Mr. M. MILNES gave notice that on Friday next, he
would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman the First Lord of
the Treasury, as a trustee of the British Museum,
whether the new façade had been definitively agreed
on ; for if not he would move for a Select Committee to
reconsider the plan.
INFLUENCE OF PEERS IN ELECTION OF
MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave notice that on Thursday
fortnight he would move for a Select Committee to in-
quire what persons had been, either directly or indi-
rectly, nominated through the influence of Peers or other
persons, to sit for boroughs as Members of the House of
Commons. _ _

SLAVE TRADE.
Mr. M. MILNES gave notice that he would on Mon
day move for a return of the number of British cruiser
which had been employed from 1831 in the suppression
of the slave trade ; also for a similar return with regard
to French cruisers.
COLONIAL ESTIMATES.
Mr. HUME said that two nights ago, in the dis-
cussion on the colonial estimates, it had been agreed that
certain returns should be made relating to colonial in-
come and expenditure. Those returns would be very
voluminous. He, however, had prepared a digest of
returns, which would be much less voluminous, but which
would answer all the purpose, and he therefore begged
leave to move for them.—Agreed to.
SINKING FUND.
Mr. lIUME would move, if the motion were not ob-
jected to, for returns of the amount of the Sinking Fund,
of the sums which had been voted from that fund, of the
various purposes to which those amounts had been ap-
propriated, and of the sum to which the Sinking Fund
would have amounted if those appropriations had not
taken place.
Sir GEORGE CLERK thought the Hon. Gentleman
had better give notice.
ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to know when the Ec-
clesiastical Courts BM would be brought on. It stood
in the Orders for Monday next.
Dr. NICHOLL intended to move on Monday that the
Bill be committed pro forn.a in order to enable the
House to get through the money clauses awarding com-
pensation.
Mr. BORTHWICK had already given a notice on the
subject. If he allowed the House to go into Committee
pro forma, he should lose his right, and he therefore
gave notice that when the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
should move the commitment of the Bill, he should pro-
pose his amendment.
PRIVILEGE.—MR. FERRAND'S ACCUSATIONS.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM rose and said —Sir, I rise
to address the House on a case of privilege. At the
same time, I may truly state, I think, both on the part
of my lion. Friend the Member for Beverly and myself,
that I am extremely unwilling to occupy any portion of
the time of the House in hearing a statement on a
purely personal matter. If I could have regarded
it merely as a; personal matter I should have hesitated
long before I brought it before the attention
of the House; but, as I said yesterday, I
feel strongly, that whatever concerns any Hon. Member
of this House, is indissoluably connected with this
House itself, and, after what occurred on Monday and
yesterday, lam satisfied that the deliberate opinion
and dispassionate judgment of the House is, that the
matter then considered cannot be allowed to rest where
it now is. The course with respect to the case of the Hon.
Member fur BeNerley that has been pointed out for
adoption is, that certain passages of his speech, purport-
ing to be delivered by the Hon. Member for Knaresbo-
rough, and published in the Times newspaper of Wed-
nesday, the 10th of April last, should be read. These
passages contained, first, the charge against myself, and,
secondly, the charge which applies both to the Hon.
Member for Beverley and myself. Ido not think it right
to add more now, and I deem that I shall best discharge
my duty—and I believe my Hon. Friend concurs with
me in that opinion—by laying the two passages on the
table for the purpose of having them read by the Clerk.

The Clerk at the table then read the following pas-
sage :—" The meeting should remember that no man
had resisted the poor-law more vigorously than
Mr. Walter, and it therefore was felt necessary
by Sir James Graham to get him unseated. Against
that gentleman's (Mr. Walter's) return a petition
had been presented, and in that petition an allega-
tion was made that betiveen thirty and forty pounds had
been improperly expended. His speech went on to say
that the Committee to try this petition consisted of three
Whigs and of three Tories, and its Chairman was Mr.
Hogg, the Member for Beverley, one of the most pure
boroughs in the kingdom, but whether he (Mr. Hogg)
got his seat for forty pounds or not, he (Mr.
'errand) did not exactly know.—(Hear, hear.)
This Tory Chairman, aided by Sir J. Graham, unseated
Mr. Walter. Mr. Hogg tried to explain away his con-
duct on that occasion, and all the Government side of
the House, on which I sat, listened with feelings of dis-
gust while he 'higgled and haggled' in that explanation.
—(Hear.) There was but one man on that side of the
House who vociferously cheered, and that one man was
Sir James Graham."
When the Clerk had done reading,
The SPEAKER said—ls the Hon. Member for Linares-
borough in his place ?
No answer being returned.
Sir H. PEEL said—Sir, I believe I am acting in con-
formity with general usage in undertaking, on account
of the position in which I have the honour to be placed
in this House, as the head of her Majesty's Government,
respectfully to tender to the House my opinion
as to the course which it will be desirable to
take.—(Hear, hear.) I advised the House, in
the course of yesterday evening, when this subject was
ander consideration, to permit an interval to elapse
before they came to any decisien, in order that there
might. be the opportunity during that interval for each
Member taking an interest in this case, to refer to the
precedents which have been established in cases at all of
an analogous nature. The position in which we are now
placed is this—that the Members of this House,considering
that their character is affected by charges which appear
to have been preferred against them in a speech deli-
vered at a public meeting, reported in one of the newspa-
pers of this country, and attributed to a Member of this
House, have thought fit, in the exercise of their right, as
tMembers of Parliament, to place on the table of the House
wthh which they
coarseth ey
which complain,ay inap
rorderear t
o thatbe theth the
House passagei
n ay take f
best. That is the position in which we are placed. I
have referred, Sir, during the interval which has
elapsed since this subject was last under our considera-
tion, to the cases in recent times, which appear to bear
upon this. I think the three principal cases are the
case of the complaint preferred % Lord Maid-
stone against Mr. O'Connell, the application
made to the House by Mr. Sheil, the Right
Hon. Gentleman, who is now a Member of this House,
for the vindication of his character • against certain
charges, which were brought against him in a speech
delivered by a Member of this House, Mr. Hill, at a
public meeting; and the third case is a complaint
made by the Hon. Member for Warrington, Mr.
Blackburn, against a gentleman who had been
unseated by
the report of a
Select
• Com-
mittee—Mr. Poultert Those are the eases in
recent times, which Appear to have An immediate bear-
ingg. upon our proceedings in the preat o
nt instance. r,

I will not point out the nice distinctions which may exist
between these several cases and the present. The con-
clusion which I have drawn from the course pur-
sued on the whole of these occasions is this, that
it would be right upon the present occasion to re-
solve that this House will take the complaint which
has now been made by two of its Members, into consi-
deration on Friday next.—(Hear, hear.) My respect-
ful advice to the House is, that we shall proceed in this
case with strict adherence to all established formalities
—that we shall give no party any right to complain
that we are taking advanvantage of admissions casually
made by him, or that we ' are acting precipitately,
or have refused to allow him an opportunity
of explaining anything which he may have said.
I think that, in the course of yesterday, the Hon. Mem-
ber for Knaresborough did distinctly admit that the
paragraph complained of contained a correct report of
his speech. He also stated that he was prepared to
abide by the charge which that paragraph alleges to have
been made. Still, although he made that admission, he
did not conclude the speech he was then delivering ; and
it is possible that had that speech been brought to a con-
clusion, some mitigating statements would have been
made by him, which he had not an opportunity of
making.. I think that strict justice would in
cline me to advise that we should not take
advantage of admissions made under such circumstances.
—(Cheers.) I should advise that we resolve to take the
matter of this complaint into consideration on Friday
next ; and I would combine that resolution with another,
namely, that the Hun. Member for Knaresborough
should attend in his place on Friday next, fer the pur-
pose of bearing that paragraph read to him by the
Speaker, in order that he may state whether or not he
admits this report to be a correct report of
what he said ; and I think also that we ought
to give him an opportunity of establishing the
charges which he has made.—(Cheers.) If lie admits
the report, and if ho states that he is in a condition to
prove it, and that he is willing to prove the charges
which he has preferred, my advice to the House is to
give him an unreserved opportunity of doing so. I would
notassume the falsity of the report, but I would advise the
House to be willing to accept the proof and to appoint a
Select Committee for the purpose of enabling the Hon.
Member to substantiate his charges. I will discuss no
other contingencies, and I trust that I have spoken as
becomes my position in giving my advice to the House.
I want to act most dispassionately, and my advice is, to
act with all due regard to established forms; and I there-
fore content myself by moving, that the House will take
this complaint into consideration on Friday next, and it
the House should affirm that resolution, I will move that
the Member to whom this speech was attributed do
attend in his place on that day.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I rise merely to say, that
I entirely concur in the course now proposed by the
Right Hon. Gentleman. I think I cannot do better
than refrain from saying a single word more respecting
it, as I think a better course could not be pursued under
the circumstances.—(Cheers.):
Mr. FRENCH—The impression on my mind is, that
the words which have been just read to the House do
not bear out the charges which have been made by
the non. Member for Knaresborough. I cannot see
that the passage in the Times bears out the charge that
the Right lion. Baronet opposite tampered with the
Hon. Member for Beverley, and as to the charge
against the Right Hon. Gentleman, I can only say that
the Right Hon. Gentleman did read the document which
had been got up by Mr. Mott, and which document, if the
public papers speak the truth, was acknowledged to be false
and Mr. Mott has since been dismissed from his office.—

(Hear.) I think that as far as the Hon. Member for
Beverly is concerned, he must have perceived from the
cheering of the House that his character stands altogether
unimpeached.—(Hear, hear.) As to the Hon. Mmber
for Knaresborough, I must admit that he has the mis-
fortune of not being able to controul his tongue.—(Loud
cheers, and laughter.) But I think it is a dangerous
precedent that a Minister of the Crown, backed by a
majority of the House, should be able to put down any
man who ventured to bring a charge against him. On
that ground I must object to the motion.—(Hear.)
Sir R. PEEL said—Sir, the Hon. Gentleman has
altogether mistaken the course which I meant to pursue.
I have proposed a resolution to the effect, that the House
shall consider the charge, and shall give the Hon. Mem-
ber a full opportunity of proving its truth.—(Hear.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE was not quite sure that they were
going according to precedent. He thought that it was
the proprietor or printer of the newspaper who
should be called to the bar in this case. The Noble
Lord opposite (Lord Stanley) had gone rather too far
when he said that the Hon. Member must have known
when he made the charge.—(Hear.) The course pro-
posed by the Right lion. Secretary for the Home
Department would have been the best, to
have the words of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough
taken down—(Hear, hear)—without going through the
intermediate process of reading a newspaper.—(Hear,
hear.) He did not mean to justify in the slightest
degree the speech of the Hon. Member, nor did he think
there was the slightest ground for the accusation. But he
must also recollect that the two gentlemen impugned
had allowed ten days to pass over without making the
charges, instead of calling the accuser to account
on the first day of the session, which was
what he (Mr. Duncombe) had expected when
he read the speech.--(Hear, hear.) No doubt the
charge was calumnious, and, as it was made in the pre-
sence of thousands, no time should have been lost
in calling for explanation in the House on the first op-
portunity.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Be-
verley had said that he had been advised by his friends
to treat the charge with silent contempt.—(Hear.)
In his opinion the advice so given was sound and good.
But then another Hon. Member, totally unconnected
with the matter—whose name had never been brought
forward in relation to it—got up and said to the Hon.
Member for Knaresborough (Mr. Ferrand), " Pray, Sir,
did you say so and so?"—(Laughter.) Now, in answer
to that question, had he (Mr. Duncombe) been the per-
son interrogated he should have said, " Pray, Sir, what
business is that of yours?"—(Loud laughter and cheers.)
He should, however, if interrogated by certain of the
Hon. Gentlemen, certainly have given them the satis-
faction they had a right to ask, either in that House or
out of it. But they not choosing to ask it,
he really had not been able to see what
right any other Honourable Member had to
ask it for them.—(Loud cheers.) But the ques-
tion having been put, they had now to deal with a state-
ment which had been avowed, and they were doing so
in a very round-about way. In his opinion, the
most proper course now to pursue was to re-
fer the matter to a Committee of three or five Mem-
bers—aye, and he would not object to the Hon.
Member for Knaresborough himself nominating that
Committee. If, before that Committee, he refused to
substantiate his accusations, or if, in that Com-
mittee, he failed in substantiating his charges, then it
would be for the House to exercise its undoubted au-
thority should not that Hon. Gentleman—as he hoped he
would do, and as he (Mr. Duncombe) would not hesitate
to do—at once withdraw the charges he might be un-
able to substantiate, and express his regret for making
assertions for which there was no foundation.—(Cheers.)
Mr. D'ISRAELI said he had been a member of the
Nottingham Committee, and could bear witness to the
utter groundlessness of the charges brought against the
Hon. Member for Beverley.—(Hear, hear.) No man's
conduct could have been more satisfactory. True
he (Mr. D'lsraeli) differed in opinion with the
Honourable Gentleman, but ho never for one
moment questioned the conscientiousuess of his deci-
sions. With regard to Mr. Ferrand, he entirely dis
approved the course he had lately been pursuing in the
country. He disagreed as to the spirit he evinced and
the tone he used towards the master manufacturers.
He acknowledged them to be an order of men, second in
importance to none ; but in treating this subject as the
House seemed now inclined to treat it, he thought they
were taking a very injudicious course, and one of which
they would repent. There were two courses open to the
Hon. Member for Beverley. Having felt that the charge
ought to be noticed, he might have asked some friend,
some man of sense, temper, and firmness, to have applied
to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He knew
that some gentlemen thought that an appeal of this kind
immediately led to Wimbledon Common and pistols ;
but he believed that in 990 cases out of a thousand this
was not the case. If the affair had been intrusted to an
individual of this character, it was impossible but the
result must have been satisfactory to the Hon. Member
Member for Beverly, and not degrading to the Hon.
Member for Knaresborough. But there was another
course open to the Honourable Member for Be-
verly. He might have thrown himself upon the
House, and might have asked it to give him its
protection in his official character.—(" So he did.") But
the Hon. Gentleman did neither ; he neither made a
public nor private complaint on the subject. The mat-
ter was brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman who as-
sumed the office in that House of pnblic prosecutor.—
(Cheers from Ministerial benches). He brought it forward
without the least notice, without affording the object of
it, that golden bridge which the social spirit and social
usages usually furnished to every one in similar cir-
cumstances—he brought it forward without giving
the slightest opportunity for accommodation.—(" Hear,
hear," from Mr. Roebuck.) The Hon. Member for Bath
seemed to exult in the effect he had produced ; he totally
disapproved of the conduct of the Member for Knares-
borough; he knew the imputation he made to be false
and frivolous, but nothing would exceed the indecorous
conduct of the House if it assumed the judicial
character, in what was anything but a judicial
spirit. The charge was suddenly made by the Hon.
Member for Bath, attended with sarcasms—not very
successful ones, indeed, but such as showed the disposi-
tion to be present, though the hand of the master might
not be very apparent. The Honourable Member for
Beverley had not thought proper, either in his
private or public capacity, to appeal to the Honour-
able Member for Knaresborough. The affair was
precipitated on the notice of the House, and the very
body that was to decide the question had shown a dis-
position not in accordance to what ho believed to be the
judicial spirit. The Right Hon. Baronet bad, to night,
endeavoured to retore some degree of order to
their proceedings, and to invert the course they
were taking with some degree of dignity and decorum.
But the question was, after wasting two nights on this
subject, whether, after the extract had been read at the
table, they should not go a step further, and let the matter
fall altogether to the ground. They were now entering
on the question of what limits ought to be drawn in
public discussion. In case of any charge made
in that blouse, was the House to convert
itself into a court of honour to decide upon it ?
There was sufficient power to keep a speaker in order
in that individual responsibility which attached to every
man. He had heard graver charges than any which
were made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough.
He had heard last cession the leadek of the House of
Commons charge an Hon. Gentleman opposite with
making speeches which would lead to assassination.
—(Hear, hear.) How:_ was the -Right Honourable,
Gentleman treated ? Wa3 he howled at •and hooted