The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-08 00:00:00

BRAZIL

Mr. BOUVERIE wished to know whether the report,
that commercial negotiations had been entered into with
Brazil, had any foundation ?
Sir H. PEEL said he hoped unless the case were very
pressing, Hon. Members would have the goodness to
give notice of their intention to put questions of this
nature. He knew the danger arising from a question
of that kind; and he did hope that a few hours' notice
would be given.

Mr. B6UVERIE said he would repeat the question
on Monday.
SUPPLY.

The House then went into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. GREENE in the Chair.

On the motion that a supply be granted to her Majesty,
Mr. HUME said that he was of opinion that they
ought to hear the financial statement before they voted
any supply. He did not mean to divide the House on
this question, but he wished to guard himself against
being misunderstood. Without having some informa-
tion before him, he was not prepared to vote for
an increase of the navy, merely on account of an
increase in the steam navigation. His opinion
was that the estimate for the navy ought not,
on that account, to be increased. His humble
opinion was, that they should know the financial state-
ment before they voted any money for the expenses of
the country, and if he did not oppose the present motion,
it was because the Right Hon. Baronet promised at
an early day to bring forward his financial scheme,
His object in rising now was to guard himself, for the
reason assigned, against being bound to grant any supply
to her Majesty. His opinion was, that the state of the
country required that they reduce, by every means
in their power, the amount of taxation, and he would
frankly state that he was surprised the Right Hon.
Baronet should have called on her Majesty to
congratulate the country on the amount of
taxation. If lie looked at the papers laid on
the table to-day, it would appear that fifty-nine millions
would be received by the Treasury in the course of the
year, an amount much larger than in former years—
some ten years ago, when Europe was in an unsettled
state, and the state of America required a large es-
tablishment. But, now, when everything tended to
security and peace, an increase in their establish-
ments was asked for. He would not ask the
Committee to support his opinion by pressing for a
division ; but he begged leave to enter his protest. for
he reasons assigned, against the grant, and he should
like to hear from the Right Hon. Baronet his exposition
of the plans he had in view.—(Hear.)
Sir R. PEEL felt assured that it could not he sup-
posed that her Majesty's Government would propose a
vote for any amount ot supply, without laying before
the House a full statement of the reasons why that
amount of supply was demanded ; and therefore he did
hope that this llon. Member would not prejudge and
condemn the course the Government intended to pursue
until he had heard what that course was. The Hon.
Member had said he conceived that the increase of steam
navigation was a reason why the taxation should be
lessened ; but were it not possible that it might become
necessary to build new steam-vessels —(Hear)--as the
commerce of the country might extend itself.— (Hear.)
Therefore, all he now asked of the Hon. Member was
to suspend his judgment until he had heard the state-
ment he (Sir R. Peel) had alluded to.—(Hear.) Surely,
it was a legitimate cause of congratulation to the House
and to the country that the revenues had increased, and
that there was a surplus, and not a deficit in the
Treasury.
Mr. HUME bad no objection to the Government con-
gratulating itself on that subject, and he for one would,
of course, be better pleased to hear of a surplus than a
deficit. But he would say that the only chance
the country had of a reduction in the public
expenditure was by keeping the Chancellor of the
Exchequer and the First Lord of the Treasury short of
money.—(Hear, and laughter.) Therefore he could not
concur with the statement of the Hon. Baronet, for he
would repeat it, that the increase of steam navigation
was no reason for an increase of the public taxation.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL had no doubt but that when
the Right Hon. Baronet made his financial statement
he would assign good, and sufficient, and legitimate
grounds for the course he had announced it as the inten-
tion of the Government to adopt.—(Hear.) He did not
concur in the opinion of his Hon. Friend behind him,
that it was matter of surprise to have at this early
period of the session the financial statement of the
Government brought forward. On the contrary, he
(Lord John Russell) was not taken by surprise at
this announcement, for he conceived it would be a
very convenient course to the country to adopt. It was
a perfectly legitimate course for her Majesty's Ministers
to state, at as early a period as possible of the session,
the amount of revenue they conceived necessary for the
public service, and then to state the means by which
they intended to meet that demand; at the same time
he did not look upon such a course as a precedent for
future years.
Sir R. PEEL said the reason he had made the intima-
tion he had upon this subject was, in order to prevent
confusion and inconvenience to the public service ; but
he did net intend that the amount the Government in-
tended to ask for should be a precedent for future years.
Mr. HUME said the Noble Lord had acted contrary
to what he would do in the management of his own
private affairs—(Laughter)—for the affairs of the nation
should bo conducted on the same principle as those of a
indi
vcpoar tui evl
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laughter.)
act
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than
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more particular, more careful, and more cautious, as the
money they spent was not their own, and belonged to
the
Mr. S. CRAWFORD was happy to find that, after
the lapse of two years, the House had adopted his pro-
position.—(Laughter.) He begged leave to state that he
had, two years ago, moved the suspension of the esti-
mates until after the financial statement had been made.
He would not, however, offer any opposition to the mo-
tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the
House resumed.

POOR-LAW UNIONS.
Mr. MANNERS SUTTON moved that a Select Com-
mittee be re-appointed to inquire into the administra-
tion of the law for the relief of the poor in the unions
e3th, her it was s. 83, and to
fmroerporetdtuondtth.re thßeaaAsect 2their2Goepoi.alolnl.,
,:h.
ex-
pedient that the said union should be maintained.
Mr. SHARMAN CRANyFORD did not rise to give
any opposition to the appointment of the Committee, but
he thought the appointment of it was completely useless,
and an entire waste of time. If the Government had
determined to abolish the Gilbert unions, it was better
to save the waste of time which would be consumed in
making the report. Circumstances had occurred
at Rochdale from which it would appear that
the Government ..were determined no longer to permit
such relief in any place. The people of Rochdale had
been accustomed to administer to the necessities of their
own poor under the Select Vestry Act, but the Com-
missioners determined that they should do so no longer.
But when he saw that this law was pertinaciously per-
sisted in in the borough with which he was connected, if it
were the opinion of the Government that no other
peer-law administration should exist in England but
that which was provided by the New Poor-law Act, he
t.id not think it necessary that they should go into a fur-
therinquiry into the Gilbert unions. There were essential
difference between the Gilbert Act and the new Poor-
law Act. The Gilbert Act gave partial relief, while
the Poor-law Act gave no relief at all, unless the par-
ties relieved were reduced to the lowest circumstances.
He protested against the latter law, and the people of
Government.
England looked upon it as a violation of their rights.
—(Hear, hear.) There was a contest going on on
this subject between the people andthe
It was a desperate contest, and ono which the people of
England would not easily give up. He could not, there-
fore, avoid taking that opportunity of calling the atten-
tion of the Government to the necessity of considering
the new Poor-law. It was a thing which could no longer
go on. The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the
Home Department had heard from several Hon. Members,
the other night,ce what bad been the result of this law. It
had produced
lamentable distress, - and it ought to be
d
in some way amended. If the Government, however,
were determined to vp through with the law, they need not
go into any further napery sores: ping the Gilbert unions.
It was a moiety* of sios? isarchwoe. Is bad beou