The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-21 00:00:00

authority of the Government could be clearly exerted
for the purpose of insuring a good principle of action;
but the more he considered the subject the more was he
convinced of its difficulties. In order to achieve a
temporary object, in order to reduce the extra-
vagant charges, it was now proposed to act
upon a principle with regard to railways which
Honourable Gentlemen who suggested it would hesi-
tate to apply to ordinary commercial legislation.
They did not say to the dealer in ordinary commo-
dities, " Such is the maximum charge you ought to
make for your goods." The present case might be
rather special, but he doubted whether it was so
special as to justify them in departing from the rule
applied in other cases. He thought that it would
not be desirable to lay down any general rule for the
conduct of the Committees; but he trusted, as their
number was limited, that each would feel that it had
a public duty to discharge, and that each would do
its best to further the public interest. He did not
know how the Government could interfere, except
by the expression of a hope that the Committees
would do all in their power for the benefit of the com-
munity.— (Hear, hear.) He did not wish to notice
theresolutions in detail, but be trusted that the Hon.
Gentleman opposite, after the discussion that had
taken place, would consent either that the previous
question should be moved or withdraw his motion.
In the first place, he thought it was very unwise for
the House to agree hastily to any resolution laying
down what it was "the duty" of Parliament to do.—
(Hear, hear.) Then, as to the " maximum charge,"
he had already stated his reasons for not hurrying on
to a conclusion as regarded that paragraph of the re-
solution ; at any rate, he was sure that before the
House sanctioned the principle of establishing a
maximum of charge the subject ought to undergo a
much fuller consideration than it had received in the
course of that discussion.—(Hear.)
Mr. J. E. DENISON said that the Right Hon.
Baronet, in an early part of the session, had stated
that the reports of the Board of Trade were by no
means intended to be final. He (Mr. Denison) was
of opinion that, when a report was issued by the
Board, the grounds upon which it was founded should
be discussed in that House before such report was
sent to the Committees, as a guide to them in the
decision they should come to.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY (West Yorkshire) did not
exactly see how the suggestion of his Hon. Friend
who had just sat down—though he agreed that great
inconvenience had arisen from the present arrange-
ment—could be carried out. He did trust, however,
that the Committee would not consider the decisions
of the Board of Trade final, though an opinion, he
believed, had gone abroad, amounting almost to a
belief, that their decisions were to be regarded in that
light. He (Mr. Wortley) was ready to concede to
the Board of Trade every credit for the manner in
which they had conducted the business which had
been intrusted to them ; but, notwithstanding, he
should he very sorry to have it assumed that their
reports were final decisions, when they were, in fact,
merely preliminary inquiries entered into with the
view of assisting the Committees; and he did hope
that the Committees appointed by that House
would be sensible that with themselves still rested the
responsibility of sifting the merits of every scheme
brought before them, and that they would express
their opinions freely and independently, both as to the
merits of the schemes and of the suggestions of the
Board of the Trade. With regard to limiting the
charges on railways, he must admit that that part of
the question was full of difficulties; but that was no
reason for abandoning all attempts ,to overcome it.
Origiaally he believed that Parliament had intended
to have applied some limitation of the description pro-
posed, and though it had failed hitherto, he did not
know but that the principle would be consistent with
the practice of Parliament and advantageous to the
public. He hoped if his Noble Friend (Lord G.
Somerset) could see any means of meet'ng the propo-
sition, that he would not fail to act upon it.
Lord G. SOMERSET was understood to say that
he would direct his attention again to the subject.
Sir G. GREY was of opinion that the best plan
that could be adopted was that which the House had
acted upon lately—viz., to establish as competent a
tribunal as possible for the examination of the details
of the Bill, and to discourage, as much as possible,
any appeal from that tribunal to that House ; but
there were certain great principles which must come
before Committees, in the course of the session, affect-
ing the guidance of railways, which, though it was
difficult to determine how they should be disposed of,
were, he thought, worthy of the consideration of the
House. It would be extremely unadvisable, and it
would be a blot in our railway legislation, if there
were to be a great want of uniformity in the Bills
and in the decisions of the Committees. Let them
look at some of the principles which the Committees
would have to decida upon. First, there was that
great and important principle which had occupied a
prominent place in the reports of the Board of Trade
—the principle of "competition," to which also the
Right Hon. Gentleman had referred. Were the
railway Committees to act upon the principle that
competition was undesirable, or were they to trust to
competition for the purpose of securing to the public
the benefits which might be supposed to arise from
it ? Then again, there was the subject of " gra-
dients," which had been also referred to by the Right
Hon. Baronet. Let the Ilouse look at the report of
the Board of Trade upon the West Yorkshire Rail-
way. They entered there very fully into the sub-
ject, and took exactly an opposite view to that which
the Right lion. Baronet had taken of it. They jus-
tified their preference of a line which had worse gra-
dients than another that was before them, by saying
that the improved power of locomotive engines now
was such, that it was not worth the while of com-
panies to incur a great expense in looking for good
gradients and good curves.—(Hear, hear.) That
report would go before a Committee of five gentle-
men, and would naturally have a great influence with
them. These were subjects which he thought it was
desirable that the House should determine on.—
(Hear, hear.) With reference to the principle which
had been introduced in the resolution of his Hon.
Friend, he would say, that Parliament had from the
first proposed to limit the charges on railway's, but
that it had been attempted in a way that was per-
fectly illusory. He repeated, that Parliament having
originally felt that monopolies might be created by
railway companies, did attempt to guard against
them, but that in that attempt they had utterly failed.
—(Hear, hear.) He quite agreed with the Right
Hon. Gentleman that the country was greatly in-
debted to those companies and gentlemen who had
originally risked their capital upon railway schemes,
and who had brought the railway system to its pre-
sent state; but looking at the great number of Bills
to be brought in this session, and considering that in
a short time railways would supersede every other
mode of travelling, he did think that the Government
ought seriously to turn its attention to the question
whether some more effective method might not be
adopted with the view of preventing the evils which
had been referred to in the course of the debate, and
to the existence of which it was impossible that they
could shut their eyes.—(Hear, hear.) lie had risen,
however, principally to state his opinion that there
should be some uniformity in the decisions of the
Committees, to insure which he thought that great
matters of principle should be discussed in that
House.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. PARKER had no doubt that every one was
desirous, or that it was the duty of the House to see
that the public should be carried at as low a rate as
possible upon railways; but if the House laid down
any plan for limiting the charges, founded upon the
supposition that acting upon that plan every railway
company would receive a fair and just remuneration
for their enteprise and the outlay of their capital, had
the House not also a corresponding duty to perform
on the part of the companies ? Should not the House
in such a case guarantee to the companies an amount
of remuneration somewhat approaching that which
their enterprise merited ?—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MORISON then consented to withdraw his
motion, and it was withdrawn accordingly.
LIGHTING THE HOUSE.

Mr. HUME called attention to the mode of light-
ing the House. The Hon. Member moved for a
copy of any report of experiments for lighting the
House of Commons in the last and present year,
with a copy of a plan for altering the existing lights,
and an estimate of the expense of the same.
Lord LINCOLN said the lighting of the House
did not belong to the department over which he had
control, but some experiments for lighting the new
Houses of Parliament were in course of being made
under his sanction, and with the concurrence of Dr.
Reid. Economy would, of course; be duly considered
in any decision the Commissioners of Woods and
Forests would come to. In the lighting of the pre-
sent Houses of Parliament, he did not contemplate
any change. He could not furnish the Hon. Mem-
ber with any documents relative to the subject matter
of his motion, for none existed ; but if the Honourable
Member wished for a report of any future experi-
ments, he could have it with pleasure.
The subject then dropped.
SUPPLY.

The report of the Committee of Supply NA as brought
up and received.
RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION
(SCOTLAND) BILL.
The LORD ADVOCATE brought up several
amendment clauses for insertion in this Bill, whin
were severally read a first and second time, and then
committed.

The House then resumed, and the clauses were read
a third time and passed.
The Bill was also read a third time and passed.
LANDS CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION
(SCOTLAND) BILL.
The Lord ADVOCATE brought up several new
clauses for insertion in this Bill, which were com-
mitted and agreed to.
The House then resumed, a-id the Bill was read a
third time and passed.