The Sun.
London, England, 1817-02-22 00:00:00

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IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

lIUIItiC OF FUIDAY, Feu 21.

Tlie House met at thehour usual upon appeal
days, and Counsel were 'farther heard respecting
the Queensberry leasei cause.—To proceed agaiit
on Monday.
't he Earl of BEALICHAi4P took the oaths and his
sent, on succeeding to the Peerage by. the demise
of his•father; the. late Earl.
The Earl of CLANCARTit. was introduced with
the omit formalities, as 0 Peer, of the United.
Kingdom, by the title of Baron TRENCH, sworn,
and took his.seat.—Their Lordships then adjourn-
ed till five o'clock.

)4.

IC

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ostler.
Eirl GnEY argued, 'bit nothing which he bad
heard from his Noble Friend could be fairly con-
sulted As a breach at order. The effects of a Bill
for snspending the Habeas Corpus Act, would, he,
also considered, be to place the liberties of the
country at the mercy of the Ministers of the
Crown. As to the point of order, he must say;
it wail nOt attended to by filth° who had inter=
rapted his Noble Friend, while he was in a course
of expl +patina in consequence of having been
called .to order

The LORD CHANCELLOR would submit it to
their Lordships, whether it was orderly or regOlar
ass to speak of persons out of that House. Car-
rying the consideration of order farther, he would
leave to their Lordships, whether it was consist,
eot with their orders to have a .petition read to.
• thent, impugning parts .of a Report which was
never communicated out of that House, or to
speak of a suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act,
of whiCh not one syllable was said, He was na-
turally anxious, from duty, and inclination, to
preserve order, find he earnestly wished to learn
from the House, whether he was right or wrong
in what he had advanced ?
Lord HOLLAND expressed sentiments similar to
those which had fallen from Earl Grey, and dif-
approved of any Noble Lord being called to order
while in.a course of explanation.
The Earl of LlvEtteoOL conceived there could
oat be a more disorderly proceeding than .that
which the House had wittlesSed, in a petition being
brought down, referring to the Report of a Secret
Committee of that House, under circumstances
and telerring to a measure which the party had
no right to know whether or not any such was
intended. The practice of Parliament was against
sttels proceedings. It was still more unparliament-
Ivy that a Noble Lord should assume that as a
• fact which he had"noright_to know any thing of,
and then, upon that 'assumption, to throw an im-
putation on the Government and time country.
'Neither could any thing regularly be known of
the transactions of the other House of Parliament,
unless in case of a communication of votes. .
lit-
divit,lual information in certain cases, is also given
with a view to personal convenience ; but it was a
most unjostifiablense of that indulgence, when in.-
. dividuals names were cited for the purpose of cast-
ipg an odium upon those individuals. In the pre-
sent case, no Lord of Parliament had a right to
know any thing so far
,as would warrant hint in
makiug personA reflections. Supposing the rhea
sore of is suspension of the Habeas Corpus to be
in contemplation, it would be the act of the Go-'
yernment collectively7-it would fall chiefly to he
executed in the tFpartment of his Noble Friend
(Lord Sidmouth) ; but to designate' individuals by
name, who would have little or no share in the
execution' of such a measure, was throw an
odium upon them without the least shadow of
pretence, and the more, to he dew ecated, as, not
being Members of that House,,they had not the
opportunity of defending themielves.
Earl Gttosvntroa spoke at some length in ex-
.
. planation. The observations which fell from him,
e, be thought, were fully as applicable now as. they
'cool(' be at any whet. period, If it were irregular
to ,iefer to individual Members of the other !louse,
it cooltl not be so to refer to them us Members of
his MAjesty:s . Government. With respect to the
reference. to the Report, it .was customary for the
substance at -least of such documents to transpire,
and go forth to the cognizAnce of the public, and
on Occasions so important as the present, the agi-
tationof men's minds, and their anxiety to learn,
must he tiousually great. He must upon the whole
think it ,a hard case were the present petition re-
jeeted, even before they should enter into a eon-
sideyation of the &object. He most again, there-
fore, mess on the consideration of their Lordships
the propriety of allowing, the petitioner to prove
his important allogations at the bar. The Noble
*Earl diet; moved that the petition be now read.
After a few words from the LORD Cs' raticat,Loa
Sod the Earl of LAUDERDALE, the petition was
read by the Clerk, on a motion to that erect by
Lord GaosYENOR.

The Loan CUANCRLLott rose for the impose of
obieetiog to the petition's' being laid upon the
table, it was of that nature and tendency which
induced him to think it ought not to be receiv-
ed. ltuferting then to what bad been said re-
specting the import Or substance of documents.,
which exeltt:ively should appertain to Members of
the I.l,mie, he observed, that if no other person
shmild call for a rigid exectition of their L4ord-
bhii,,' orders iu that respect, he would do it. It was
not to he endured in the circumstances in which
they stood, that papers printed exclusively for
Noble Lords should go forth, so as that a petition
could state what were the contents of a most im-
porfaut document,. and such a petition be pre-
sented by a Peer of thee House. He should,
While be lived, suppOrt the'Laws and Constitu-
tion of the Country to the utmost of his .power,
end agninit practices which may give rise to such
proceeding's as the present: His sentiMentsshoUld
be recorded in a protest.
.G eel' spoke at some length upon the sub-
-Ic`.'. lie observed particularly with respect to
what had fallen from the.NobleandLearned Lord,
that there were numerous instances iu which in-
dividuals who found themselves affected and ag-
grieved by certabt proceedings in Parliament, had
come forward in various ways, to endeavour at
obtaining redress. It was well knohn that many
of found their way into public ,print 1. The
case of Mr. Ilorne Tooke, .when he took a legal
course in an application to. the Court of King's
Beuch , was a striking instance of what he had al-
bided to., in that liefore them, the Central Union
Society, was held to be ,implicated in a traitorous
Conspiracy igig,rtinA the laws uod constitution of the
country... Thvy should ;t birefore, in justice, be al.
lowed an opportunity of
,wiping of f that imputa,
tints. . It-was
,offered to be proved thatv they did
trot meet for the last three years and a half, and
their books and papers brought before the House.
He w*S..bappy, iloweyer,,to hear, that his Majes-
,. ,ciiief Ministers seemed to feel it an imputation
that the measure referred to was intended try them.
lye_ce 05,.pr!splt, petitioner- tefesed to be beard,
be knew not on what principle of jtistice any
other could be heard; or if a Suspension Bill were

heat•, against it ?

Tl►e'itarl of HAlt ROWS Y. deprecated any proce.
dtwe :which wastontrary
,to the established rules
and.'orders of P*'lian►ent. 'Were evidence to be
received in the. case of the present Petition, by
what rule could they refuse a similar procedure on
the part of every club and affiliated society in the
'kingdom > It was evident to all, the order 'of" he
House should be respedteth' and with regard to
the present Petition, he must submit bis
that it ought-not to lie on the table. -
Lord HOLLAND agreed that the order,of the
House should at all times be respected, but he
could not concur in the idea, that no petition shOuld
be heard upon a subject before Parliament, except
it had an acknowledged legal publicity. The pre.
sent case was one in which helhought they ought
to hear the petitioner ; for with all his respect for
the Committee, he most observe, chit they pyo-
cceded upon ex parte evidence.. A love of the
Constitution was best manifested in spewing it to
be just.; Ad there were some cases in Nhich
intli-
vitluals had no way for redress but in appealing
to the justice of Parliament.

EarlOrtosveNon observed, that what be then
proposed was for the petition's lying on the table.
The only thing which he thought remained was
to consider whether there was any thing in the si•
tuition of the country, or the preseto aspect of
public affairs, that should induce the House to
entettain the Petition, lie thought the present
state of the business the preferable time for hear-
ing the petitioner.
The Earl Of. LAUDF.nnALE thought there seas
no adequate ground for the House not receiving
the petition. Petitions, and even counter lied-
tions, were often received on occasions nearly si-
milar. Pe thought the ease of the Irish Canoni-
cal Propositiqps nearly similar. There, eunterous
petitions were entertained upon the Report of a
Committee, and before airy legislative • measure
took place upon it.
The Duke of Alyn. briefly adverted to a part
of the petitioner's language, which he thought
was sufficient to authoriie its rejection,
Lord EnsKINIS briefly stated his sentiments, but
rather in a feeble voice. lie was of opinion, that
if this petition could not now be received, it could
not consistently, at any future time ; and semett.
to think that the r petitioners in certain other eases
may as well be held implicated in, a charge of con-
spiracy, ,as those to whom, the Petition in goes.,
firm referred.
The Eat' of DARt4LEY said a few words in fa-
vour of receiving the Petition.
Earl Guey could see no rational groomd for re-
jecting the petition it states a part of the Report
to have proceeded upon false evidenee, which it
offers to correct by true evidence ; it implicit no
doubt or disrespect whatever of the Committee.
Should it then be rejected by a hasty divi>ion, the
House he thought would not rise in the estima-
tion of the country. What he would suggest,
therefore, as he thought that in tirpee like the
present an extraordinary degree of attention should'
be paid to such consideration, was, 'that they
should not now come to any decision upon the
question, but adjourn the debate upon. it until
Friday next.
..
The Earl of Ltveftrooe stated his solicitude, in
common with the Noble Lords opposite, to afford
every due facility in receiving the Petitions of the
People ; but confessed that, notwithstanding all he
had heard front the other side,tbere was not a word
to prove such a petition as that before them had
ever been presented or received by their Lordships.
The comparison of t he present to the case of the Irish
propositions was; he thought, very little in point.
There,
,the resolutions went to affect the specific
interests of various bodies of men. The object
of the petitioner here seemed to be to' prevent the
adoption of a measure similar to that which took
place in 1795, and it would' be impossible to say
to what extent the admission Would lead. There
were various other .causes to be adopted with a
view to obteieing justice, without a recurrence
in 'melee manner to Parliament.
Lord HOLLAND trusted that the House would
not vote the rejection of the petition, unless they
were satisfied there was something injurious in its
nature, or disrespectful in its lungqage, to call
for such a decision.

,Earl ViTzwILLIAm—As I had tlic honour of
being a Member of that Com Mince of 'Secrecy,
whose Report has been presented •to this Flouse,
I feel solicitous to give my opinion on the subject
of this petition. To that Report,l assented, from
the nature of the evidence that was before the
Committee. _That evidence has been contradicted
by the petition, both in point of fact and time;
and therefore 1 would be. exceedingly sorry that a
petitioncontaining such,allegutions should not 14
received. At all events, fee! it a duty most sp.
rlously, to press upon the consideration of the
House the propriety of adooing.the Amendment
for an adjournment.
.

The goeition ring evi, their Lordships
iiks follows : •

-Contents (tor the l'etitiou lying npOn 60210,) I
7.4,,t Contents 64
• Blaj nrit y-zigainst this
Proxies were not recurred to. ,
PEACE PRESERVATION 'BILL
Strangen were excluded 'slime time, On our
re-entering the House, We found
Viscount Sipmourit .aittlressing their Lordships,
and stating he.had Bill; which he should forth.
with present to the • House. lie was. then ready
to enter into it detailed' exposition of the measure;
but as., he, believed, front the lateness of the hour,
a general wish prevailed that the measure shoald
be llehatedon the second reading of the Bill ; and
on.hlouclay,..it was his intention, after the second
residing, to move the subsequent stages of the Bill.
The Noble Secretary of Suite then presented the
Bill, which was rcpt t the first time, in the usual
way., The title appenred,us follows
" An Act to enabk, his Majesty to wore and detain such
persons as hiA Majesty should suspect of conspiring against
bit Person and Government."
Lord llot.winn trusted that when'the subject
came to be debated, the Noble Lord would-be pre
pared, not Only to state his opiniou upon the sub,
jest, but also the reasons .and grounds upon which
he reited the Bill itself, and what induced him to
recommend such a hurrying of the measure through
Parliament,

The Lords were then °Hoye(' 191)e snmalPtleil
for Monday; and soon alter the [louse adjourned
until that day..

The House being occupied in balloting, for aKi
Election Committee on the Rochester petition, Of
gallery was not open till half-past four.
Mr. 11. DAVI? presented a petition from the
Managers of the lit istol Saving Bank, against cer-
tain clahses of the Savings' Bank Bill.—Ordered
to lie on the table.

Mr. DICKENSON presented a petition from the
Clothiers and Cloth-workers or Suffolk, praying
that the use of machinery might be restrained.—
Ordered to lie on the tabte.

Mr. CALVERT presented a petition from an indi-
vidual of the name of James. Helder, of Horsley-
down, complaining of a case of great hardship.
The petitioner he stated to have been proprietor
of a small vessel engaged in the trade from Rot-
terdam to London, called the George, which had
been boarded- by the Hawke revenue cutter, -and
detained on a charge of contraband goods having
been found in tier. The master and the crew had
been impressed and sent to America. The pro-
ptietor of the ship which had been detained, had
petitioned the Treasury on the subject, but bad
not been attended to, because be was unable to
bring evidetiCe to prove that the ship had been
unjustly detained, which he had only been pre-
vented from doing by the master and crew having
been impressed and sent to a distant station.—The
petition was read,
,and ordered to lie on the table.
Mr, 11. ADpINGTON presented certain Papers
relative to the. Poor Laws.--Ordered to be printed.
Mr. 'Buouonnwinguired if the Papers relative
to Fines and Forfeits in the Customs were ready
to be laid before the House ? He was answered
from the Ministerial side, that they had been three
days on the table. lie then ritoved that they
should he printed.—The motion was agreed to.
A Return of the Duties paid in three years end-
ing on the Ist of February, 1817, ,ou Carolina
Rice, and on Rice 'from India, was ordered to be
laid before the House: