The Sun.
London, England, 1821-05-12 00:00:00

r''''*l 494611 7the-Ordtlaitce'rerl/4.i'c'eliq y 6:10
o e
•—• -they wouldtbestruck• with the:decrease of ex-
.
• Petite.. • At,the:period of the,Atnerican War, the
Ordnance: -service -Was left, with 170 or 180,0001.
..-unprovided- fog"",. and 'at the end of. the late war,
. •:. the most onerous ever felt, not one pound re-
: .mained unpaid. It had been ,said by the Hon.
Member. for -Winchelsea,- that the Ordnance was
an exarnpleiwpoint of economy 'for other de-
- -.partments. :He did not know how far that . was
an imputation- on other departments, but. it was
certainly a declaration favOurable :to the
nan-ce- Tile Right Alen; Gentleinan stated in
L. round nnmbers all the reductions which had been
.matleduring.several. years past, and -observed,
.that there was no particular year' at 'which they
could stop. and: fairly say,- the expence of the
Ordnance of: the. present year ought to be
•-• regulated by the -expence of the year selected.
—They were bound to look at the exigency
of the time, and the lion. Gentleman, the Mem-
ber for Aberdeen, could 'not properly confine
• therm to the "year :179`..'.` If, however, he did
Ordnance
the-Ordnance of 1792 with the present
ex:pense,. he Would find the difference
between-the sums was not 'much, allowing for
the increased services of the present day. The
'.• deductions at this time exceeded any which fol-
lowed .former wars. -We-had more colonies and
establishments to keep. up, than at the end:of
.former years, yet the deductions were greater
' than at the end of any other war during the last
100 years. if this was the
.nature of the Ord
nance service, he might ask why they were cal-
Upon to do more than their ancestors could do.
Iviore than half the establishments since 1796 were:,
neW'sand if so, how could it be expected that they
• could come back to the expense of 1792.---
Re contended that money would not now pur-
chase so much as in 17,92. Could any person go
now and purchase articles so cheap as he did in
1742. They could not, and that was a reason
Ivily they could not return to the Expenditure of
. 1792. With respect to what the Hon. Member
for Aberdeen had objected to as enormous Sala-
Ties, it would appear that the Store-keeper at
Dover, and Mr. Bayley, the Store=keeper at
Chatham, had nothing like the salaries they had
in 1792. Some censure, he observed, had been
cast upon the Noble Person at the Head of the
Department, who was accused of filling offices
'with new men. The conduct' of that Noble
Person did not bear that construction. The
individual •who had been -objected to on account
of his youth was competent to discharge the
duties of the office. There was an office which
had-been exercised by a new man. He alluded to
the case of an officer•who had been crippled and
hlutilatecl upon the -Peninsula. The individual
was at Vittoria with the Duke of Wellington,
and a feeling of • what was due to one who had
Suffered so much in the service of his country,
induced the Noble Person to appoint him store-
keeper at Portsmouth. This was, perhaps, in
the estimation of the Hon. Member, a crime,_:._
(Rear, hear.)--There was another instance of
the same nature. A person, named Quinn,
was appointed Armourer to the Tower. He
• had served in the,artillery since 1801, and faced
the enemy in most of the battles -upon the-Pe-
ninsula war. Mr. Bristow, the Chaplain. of
Chatham
; Mr. Stone,,Cierk of the Cheque at Bei-
; and other persons who had been appoint-
ed to situations, would have half-pay, in case they
•‘'ere not so employed. Mr. Stewart, late Super-
ptendant of the 'D.ock at Dublin, was made
• ,harbour Master, in consequence of which he pro-
duced a considerable saving to the Ordnance De-
Partment. With respect to Mr. Marshall, who was
k freeman of Queensborough, 'he didnot see why
.he was to be deprived of half-pay on that ac-
Count Upon the Whole, the Hon. Gentleman
• to-uld not reasonably charge the Ordnance with
wasteful expenditure. He then stated to the
House the -comparisonS which , ought to be
"made in the estimates'in the present year and
• those of 1792. The whole difference between
, the EstiMates of 1792 and_ 1821, was about
63,0001. From that difference, which was excess
:in the present year, they had to take the increase
in.the value of articles during the 23 years war.
Several millions of stores, which they had not in
1792. Different works and fortifications. -Half-
- Pay sixteen times greater than. in 1792. The
~...Spence occasioned by the Union with Ireland.
The expence of a more Correct mode, of remu-
Iterating- Civil Officers, and taking an account of
*heir claims.-' He desired it to be known to the
. 'C°Mtnittee and the BritiSh Empire, that there
\vas only a difference of 65,000/. in the an.
•• • Intal expence of the Ordnance. Establishment
horn the expence incurred. by it in 1792.
the Clerks' Salaries there had been some
increase. But "-before that Increase was made,
the Ordnance 'Clerks Were. worse paid than
. any others ; he' ',defended- the system of gra-
- 4tuities., Be 'had, answers for' all the arguments
'4,6Anced by iLe..flon.• Member, and he pledged
himself to contrial:TA them when the different
I Atlbjects'came on in dett,..il: With respect to the
item of -42,0004 whiCh he- 'Lad to' propose, here
. • again the Hon.- Member was Mil
staken.. He stat-
• ed that the item was in fact 63,6001.1 and charg-
Whim- (Mr. Ward) With concealing h,
eat amount
from the Committee. Now he wished that
-The Honourable Member would not indult;e
,
.111 such assertions' and. such language., There
• Was no concealment whatever., for the sum
~ 'rich the Honourable Member added to the
I nein was. given to the House in another form,
_ -and in , another place. hie did wish that-such
. 'things might not go forth' to be` paragraphed
to newspapers for the sake of 'raising the idea
that that House was an Aug;ean stable, so diffi-
- cult to he cleansed. The honourable Gentle-
wan Was Obliged to own -that every facility Of
, • obtaining information had 'been afforded him at
the Ordnance Office. Ile even carried his zeal
so far as to apply for-accoents of the Ordnance
floating
batteries. But it unfortunately happened
" that tt •
was no such thing; in existence;
however, .they should have been quite ready to.
have given .the Ilononrable Gentleman a floating
~ atiery -if they flailflailhad one.--- (A laugh.)—As the
t-t,tio;tc
for. the Army end NaVy had been
• (kis;
•ded to meet the wishes of the Hon. ourable
c,.entl
• •. 4nllN 'he 4iould .shitpe
444-nOe in
.•
the
same 3Datitier; Thellon: Neither