The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-08 00:00:00

try. Well, then, they had upwards of two millions of paupers
in Ireland, more than a million in England and Wales, and an
enormous mass of pauperism in Scotland, with wages in the
agricultural districts of that country of not more than 6s. per
week.; and even in some of the English counties the wages
were as low as 6s. per week.—(Cries of " N 0..") Let the
Hon. Member for Dorsetshire get up and quote from the pam-
phlet of the Rev. Godolphine Osborne. He had the
title of Honourable becore his name, and he (Mr. Bright)
therefore supposed he was connected with the aristocracy.
CA had also the title of reverend, and therefore, he presumed,
belonged to an establishment which was not particularly de-
mocratic. in its tendency—yet that writer gave a more appalling
description of the state of the people in that country than any
member of the Anti-Corn-Law League had yet ventured to
give.—( Cries of." Question.") What did the country papers
tell them? Ought they not to take some steps to
ascertain the cause of the deep seated discontent
of the agricultural counties ?—the cause of those
outrages upon property which were, to a certain extent, com-
mitted upon farms, in some of the counties where they were
obliged to keep private watchmen.—(No, no.) Why, it was so.
Let them read the accounts of the incendiary fiires recorded
in the newspapers. It was for the Legislature, in such a state
of things, to consider whether their only concern in dealing
with this question was, whether the West Indian planter
should have fifteen shillings per cwt. less, or not, on
sugar. It was their business to see if any remedy
could be devised for the present state of matters, and if they
could devise such remedy to apply it at once. That was their
duty if they claimed to be statesmen. If a remedy lay within
the Constitution it was their duty to apply that remedy. He
had risen to exp'ain his views and to state his intention of sup-
porting the motion of the Hon. Gentleman. Though there
might be a majority against that motion, and Ministers might
thereby obtain a party triumph, they were not therefore re-
moved from the terrible, the awful, and the ever-accumulating
responsibility of doing their duty, and spurning the domination
of the monpolist part y.—( Cheers. )
Mr. F. T. H I RING said that the Noble Lord (Lord San
don) who spoke last on the other side, had addressed himself
a good deal to a proposition made by him (Mr. Baring) when
he was Chancellor of the Exchequer, rather than to the real
subject under discussion. What that proposition was, he (Mr.
Baring) would net then trouble the House with repeating.
At the time it had been proposed, it was upon the considera-
tion of revenue that it had been advanced. tie had been told,
both now and then, that that proposition would be ineffective.
All he could say was, that if it were ineffective, they had now
means, which they had not then, of giving a reduction, which
the state of the finances would not permit. If it was denied
that it would give relief, let it not stand in their way at the pr,:t-
sent moment. They were open to consider any more effective pro-
position than he had been able to lay before the House.
There was, however, one point which the House must permit
him to re-state to them. It had been used as a taunt against
the Members of the late Government that they had changed
their opinions upon the question of protecting colonial sugar.
He reminded them that when the duties were renewed it was
announced to be a renewal for one year, and if any Hon. Mem-
ber who was present at the interview of West India pro-
prietors witirthe Government on that occasion had any remem-
brance of the matter, he would admit that it was so stated at
the time, and moreover that it excited considerable dissatisfac-
tion, as though they designed to lower the duty, though they
did not state so. The speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman
the President of the Board of Trade on the subject had been
made with his usual ability and clearness, but in nothing had
he shone to such advantage as in avoiding irritating
topics. But then one part of the Right Honour.
able Gentleman's speech would be looked at with
anything but satisfaction—he meant his narration relative to
the negotiation, because it left the case of further negotiation
hopeless. The Right Hon. Gentleman stated the propositions
that were made, on the part of the Government of Brazil,
which he said it was impossible for the Government of this
country to accept. But that left upon him (Mr. Baring) the
' impression that they had put off to too late a time their dealing
with that country. If they had, some years ago, dealt more
liberally with the staple articles of that country, sugar and
coffee, they would have raised a better feeling towards them
on the part of the Government of that cmintry.—( Hear,
hear.) He heard, with sincere regret, that the Government
of Brazil were about to take the course of protection.
He was not inclined to speak against what had been stated
by the Right Hon. Gentleman, or to overrate their trade
with Brazil. But whatever that trade was, it was of such a
nature that, in the present state of the manufacturing popula-
tion, it ought not to be neglected. He confessed he thought
there were no two countries so admirably adapted by nature
for commercial intercourse, as this country and Brazil. But
the opportunity of improving that intercourse had been ne-
glected, and they now came, at a late hour, to remedy that
neglect. He had looked with some interest at the estimates
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the last three years.
In the years 1841 and 1842, he estimated that the quantity
of sugar to be imported would be 1,1(30,000 cwts. ; in making
that estimate, the Right Hon. Gentleman had made a mis-
which was short of the demand
take. He promised a supply
by the amount for three months' consumption. He would
not enter into the estimate for last year, because there seemed to
be some confusion in the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech. He
(Mr. Baring) was not certain whether the estimate stated the
stock in hand, or the stock expected; however on the esti-
mate for the three years there was a deficiency of half a
year's consumption, as compared with the amount really con-
sumed. Now he asked any impartial man who looked at these
4.ggrePs Lto stitte if,he was Juksetisfied thit..thet,eensumption
was stinted by, the smelhiess of Vie Ripply ?„- Taking the
average the last five years,'it appeared, that the_ quantity
introduced into the country. excreded the actual consumption
only by the consumption of two days, showing that as'
consumption followed SO 'closely on the heels of supply,
it must have been stinted by the smallness of it.
Would any one tell him, leaking at the habits of the people
of this country and of Ireland, that if there had been a free arid
open supply, there would not hays,been a much greater con-
sumption of sugar? It Mr. Huskisson, when we brought for.
ward his sugar duties, told them that there was a large class
of their poorer fellow subjects who did not use sugar at all,
why was it that tea and coffee were now consumed to a much
greater extent than formerly, while the consumption of sugar
had not increased in the same proportion ?—( Hear, hear.)
His Right Hon. Friend had stated truly, that since 1831 th
consumption of tea and coffee had increased about 33 per cent.
—( Hear.) Let him illustrate his position by the case of to•
bacco. They all knew that great complaints were made of the
smuggling of tobacco as well as of its adulteration, and there-
fore he could not perhaps take a mere unfavourable case. Not-
withstanding this, hoover, the consumption of tobacco had
increased since 1831 17 per cent. The increase in the con-
sumption of sugar was only 7 per cent —( Hear, hear.)
Now a good deal of argument had been used with refer-
ence to the question of slavery. He would ask MM. Gentle-
men opposite whether, upon the grounds they had taken, it was
possible to defend all the anomalies which spread through
their systems. He contended that it was impossible to carry
out fairly and frankly the principles which they had laid down
with regard to slavery and sugar. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man had been reminded of the case of cotton, but he drew a
distinction with respect to that article. M hy, with the Right
Hon. Gentleman's talent for drawing distinctions, he would not
be surprised if he were able to show a distinction between the
sugar of Brazil and the sugar of America.—(Laughter.) The
Right lion. Gentleman had been questioned also with respect
to coffee. Would he tell him (Mr. Baring) that no Cuba
coffee ever came into this country ? In fact, it was
impossible to apply the principle. Whether foreign
countries, looking at the course which they pursued with
respect to other articles, would be entirely persuaded of
their perfect honesty and good faith with reference to sugar,
was a question which he confessed he should have great diffi-
culty in solving; knowing, as he did, that almost every fo-
reign country looked on this declaration with regard to sugar
as mere empty profession. He now came more immediately
to the question of slavery. The Right Hon. Gentleman had
put that question very fairly. He said it was not slavery
which he contemplated. Why, if it were, it would be im-
possible to deal with any article that came from Ame-
rica. Nor was this the only difficulty. Almost the
only treaty which the Right Honourable Gentleman had
framed was a treaty with the Government of Russia;
and though no one could talk of slavery in Russia, as the word
was generally understood, vet that modified slavery which pre-
vailed in the system of serfs would present a formidable diffi-
culty; and the, Right Hon. Gentleman must remonstrate with
the Czar of Russia, and beg that his Imperial Majesty would
issue better -regulations for the treatment of his subjects.—
( Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Right Honourable Gentle-
man objected to slavery in the Brazils, because it en-
couraged the slave trade, and because the only means of
getting rid of of the slave trade was by abolishing slavery in
that country. The Right Hon. Gentleman said last year that
he would consent to the admission of Brazilian sugar on condi-
tion that immediate measures should be introduced by the
Brazilian Government to ameliorate the state of the slave,
with the ultimate view of abolishing slavery. Now he (Mrs
Baring) did not look with the slightest feelings of disre-
spect on the strong feeling which was exhibited in
this country on the subject of slavery.—( Hear,
hear.) He believed it to be the duty of every
man to do his best to get rid of that scourge of
the human race; but he would ask whether any conditions
which they might impose on Brazil were likely to produce the
slightest effect ? How could they carry it out ? The whole
argument rested upon this. The Right Hon. Gentleman ad-
mitted that there was no deficiency in the formal words of the
existing treaties. And he stated that if the treaties were car-
ried into effect the slave-trade would be abolished to-morrow.
Why was not this done? Because the slave-trade was patro-
nised and encouraged by the noble and provincial authori-
ties of Brazil ; and because every person in authority
who set himself honestly 4o get rid of the slave-trade
was dismissed from his office. Would they leave it then to the
Brazilian Government to carry into effect in the interior of the

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