The Sun.
London, England, 1821-03-23 00:00:00

--_ -..--...,: ....,:i.:sit rrouuce ana
lilanufactures exported to the Norh.
of Europe and the British North American Colonies respectively, in the years
1799, 1800 and 1801, when the 'rood Trade was enjoyed almost exclusively
by the former, contrasted with the Years 1817, 1 18 and IGI 9, when the
Wcod Trade with the former was diminished, and had been extended with the
latter. Extracted from the Official Accounts, pages 120 to 122.
N.B.—No accurate Estimate can be made of the actual consumption of either,
~. ' for a great part of the intervening pntou from 1801 to 1810, as during the war,
goods were exported to both ;or the consumption of other countries.
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Is not the fair inference from that fact, that the inclination of the Russians to
teceive our manufactures and produce was such, that if their means were increased
of Paying for them by an increased import from that country, it is probable that
those Manufactures would be sent in still greater quantitizs ?—The increased ex-
port of wood could contribute to it, but to a very limited extent from its very
inconsiderable value.
But in proportion to that influence you think it would contribute to it ?—That
1..! a problematical question, but I conceive the existing state of the trade enables
mem to take annuch of our manufactures as they 'require.
laDo you not conceive, that the Norway deals being all of small dimensions, have
boured under an unfair disadvantage in the British market, in consequence of
the present system or duties, and the exemption from duties of the Colonial deals ?
No, I do not think they have.
State your reason ?—I conceive Norway has its full share of the deal trade, as
Will appear by a paper I beg to submit.

[The witness delivered in the paper, which was read as follows :1
By the official accounts, page 130 St 141, it appears, that on an averagc of th?
last four years 1816, 1817, 1818, and 1819, the relative imports were,

From
Norway .
Sweden .
Russia .

Hundreds of

Deals.

7,065
3,941
8,115
2,686

Deal ends.

35'ei83
1,128
2,638
1,002

pieces.

! Battens.

2,331

414
1,271

Prussia

British Not th American

Colonies.

21,807

5,357 S

8,651

Deals andl
Deal ends!

4,032

1223 Batts.l

Total.

13,279
5,183
12,024
3,704

34,590

5,580 . 'Total.

Mr. Stewart. In answer to their trade labouring under unfair disadvantages, I
have brought another statement which contains the contrast of the Norway deal
e, and the Canada deal trade, which ur.der the existing system would leave
.;•9s. Id. per load of fifty cubic feet to the importer of Christiana deals; which a
;14!1,1ated scale of duties would advance to 'zl. 19s. 4d. while the Canada trade
-.."'rthey contend, has the monopoly of the market, leaves only 11. 6s. 7d.
?he wiitness delivered in the statement, which was read as follows:]
()may bezt
Trade, contrasted with the Canada Deal Trade, February 1821.

NORWAY,
under the existing system of duty :

4( )ling price of a hundred of Christiana deals, viz.
pieces of 12-feet 3-inch by 9-inch.
Preight calculated at the rate of 245. per 120
pieces, 11-feet 14-inch by 9-inch .
Litherge, landing charges, discount and com-
l.,
4 ni
4' ssion •
'l'in a foreign ship . .

lach al
, _—alice for prime cost of 120 pieces 12-feet 3-
inch deals, on board the ship in Norway

1. s. d.

3 3 -

3 18 -
121 10 8

1. s. d.

136 - -1

28 11

7 8 4

►. s. d.

per load of
50 cub. ft.
1 9 1

Under a graduated Scale of Duty in Ireland,

beihn
price as above .
Freight
landing charges, discount com-
mission • • •
Duty ina foreign ship • • • • •
Dina ee for prime cost of 120 pieces, le-feet 3-
9-inch deals, on board the ship in Norway 5

3 3 -!

3 18
12 18 6,

Or .L.,

36 -

19 19 61

l - 61

per load of
50 cub. ft.
2 19 4

CANADA :

,R; Price of a hundred of yellow pine deals, viz.
Fr :etes, 12-feet 3-inch 11-inch . .
from Quebec, 71. ss. and 5 per cent.
1.41iQ.1124 pieces 12-feet 11-inch 11-inch
-"ge, landing charges, and commission
' -IPrime cost of 120 pieces, 12-feet 3-
nch deals, on board the ship at Quebec

15 4

Or . L.I

127 - --

18 4 61

I 1

Or . L.;

'per load of
50 cub. ft.
1 6 7

less
tchcording i 1 1
pays
to the present system of duty, the standard hundred of deals . net han w'uld be chargeable on the same quantity of timber in the log, would it
e an
t
44 additional o approximate those duties ?—The effect of that would be to give
10trade to Norway, Long deals now pay a less duty than timber in the
angd;eshort deals, a higher duty. . The effect of equalizing the duty between deals
iri, inther in the log would be to cause a reduction of duty on the short deals
ierted from Norway, and to increase the duty on the deals imported from the
r 1 in the proportions which appear in the paper I beg to submit,

[The witness delivered in the paper ; and it was read as follows:]

120
Pieces of 12 feet 3 inch nine
inch deals contain 5 loads 20 fee:.
"d ray duty _
5 loads 20 feet timber, in the log pay duty
...'bucTlolf or -
DUTY on 120 pieces 12 feet 3 inch nine-inch'
pals (the dimensions usually imported from Norway, agreeably to
kpo of the Commissioners cf, Customs) is charged upon
the cubit contents,,at the same rate as timber in the log .

L. s. d.
20 15 8
17 11

3 4 8

,--- l2O pieces of I C feet 3 inch ten-inch.deals contain 8 loads, and
pa y duty'
5 8
loads of timber, in the log, pay duty - •
-I

(IttAsE or DUTY on 120 pieces of 16 feet 3 inch ten-inch deae'
lsi
(the dimensions usually imported from the Baltic, agreeably to th
ileport of the Commissioners of Customs) if charged upon tlie
Cubic contents, at the same rate as timber in the log -

5 4 4

; Is not the effect of the present regulation, as to the duties ;If ,on deals. to render
il Irety disadvantageous for the importer to bring into this emu Atry any deals under
. le lengths of from 16 to 20 feet? Of course upon the prese ,nt principle of collect-
'„l"R duty, the longer lengths the merchant can import the nJore wood 4 brings for
wie same duty, and he necessarily derives a proportionate. udvantage.
1 Jhtrefore in all the lengths of deals, at present the (I.4ty upon deals from 8 to
feet is so excessive that they cannot be imported Pato this countr*, excepting

at a very great Increased duty to deals of a greater length?. Th 3 shorter desk
certainly pay higher in proportion than the long. deals; but the short deals are
imported, from Norway,
.which, from its proximity, is able to bringlhem at a less
expense of freight.
Might not many deals from Russia, Prussia and Sweden, from whence the long
deals are at present sent, be brought of shorter lengths but which are at present
excluded, in consequence of the scale by *Tell the duties are regulated? The
timber of those countries is of larger dimensions, rind I aril not aware that it Would
be of any importance to them to bring short deals ; -the Norway timber is of small
dimensions.

In of fact, do you know that before the late great increase in the duties on
deals', a very large proportion of short deals used to come from those places ? I
am not aware, whether that Was or was not the ease.
Lookin,4 to the. interest, ihd Consurner in tins country, is it for his advantage
that the short deals Ahdithl be eieliftied troni conics to this market ? The short
deals are not excluded, fbr they come in Immense qtlantitldi.
But at an increased price from the higher proportion of duty ? Certainly,
What effect would be produced, in your opinion, on the consumption of colonial
wood if a duty of 20s. per load was imposed upon it, without altering the present
duties on faeign, timber? Ido not believe the colonial timber could be brought,
except to a very limited extent, If such a duty were laid.
What effect would be produced by imposing a deity on the colonial wood of I Os. ?
The effect would be to reduce the consumption from the colonies, drici in copse-
(pence of communications I have lately had with persons from thence, I am dish
posed to think that the reduction would be in the article of inferior quality, con-
sequently the general character of the imprtation would be improved.
What Would be the effect of imposing 10s. on the colonial wood, and taking I Os.
off the existing duties on foreign Wood ? An almost total exclusion of the colonial,
I should' think.

State your *sopa There.is at loss upon the.iiiiirket price at present; and my
reason for thinking the duty which would be sufficient to correct the evil of ship-
ping large quantities of an interior description, might be of service, would be, that
the market price would in consequence bei advanced ; if the market price did not
advance, the colonial could not bear any duty at all.
What, in your opinion, would be the effect of laying ss. on the colonial timber,
and taking ss. off the foreign timber ? Ido not think it would produce the same
beneficial effect as laying 10s. on tho colonial timber, because I think that to
whatever extent it may be possible for the colonial wdod to bear a duty, it will effect
a greater reduction in the export of inferior quality, and will therefore tend more
to advance the general character of the colonial wood ; because also I think that ss.
taken off the foreign duties would be immediately laid on in the shipping price on
the other side, and become a benefit to foreigners at the expense of our revenue.
What would be the effect, in your opinion, of taking 10s. from the duty on
foreign wood without imposing any duty on colonial wood? I think that there
would be no improvement in the character of the colonial wood, and therefore I
think the measure would be injurious both to the revenue and the colonial trade.
My reason for thinking it is possible the colonial wood might bear a duty, is the
expectation that it might improve the general character.
%%That effect do you think might be produced by taking 20s. off the duty on
foreign timber upon the consumption of colonial timber ? I conceive it would
scarcely be used at all ; I think taking 20s. off the present duty would nearly
exclude it from the market. lam of opinion, a reduction of the foreign duty is
not likely to produce ire same result as a duty upon the colonial.
Then your opinion is, that 455. which would then be the difference in duty, be-
tween the importation of foreign and colonial timber, would net be a sufficient
protection to colonial timber ? The difference which would be a protection is en-
tirely a matter of speculative opinion ; and I would rather answer that question by
reference to figures, shewing what have been the relative importations and the re-
lative prices, - leaving the Comfnittee to. draw their conclusion ; I have brought a
statement of the relative importations, and the relative prices for six years.

[The NCitness delivered in the same, and it was read as follows :]

Timber per -IA
the Import of eal

ad in LoxpoN ;

h preceding year.
American :Difference
Yellow Pine per Load.

Imports into GREAT
extracted from the 0
counts, pages 130 to I
Foreign
Timber.

3RITATN,

licial Ac-

Memel.

Years.
- IL.s. d.

14. s. (1.
4 15
4 12 6

s. (1.
1 5
1 12 6
1 12 6
2 5
2 , 5
2 17 6

Colonial
Timber.

YearF.

Loads.
I 67,809

Loads.
107,552

1816 Jan. 6
18:7 6 5
1010 612 0
1819 6 17 6
1820 6
1821 16 2 6

4 12 6
3 15 -
3 5 -

11315 -
1816 -
1817 -
18111 -
'lBl9 -
1820 -

60,153
80,968
130,654
102,864

131,842
140,28.2
,14,102
2.67,065

Returns not published

From your knowledge of the timber market here, to what extent do you think the
consumption of colonial, timber would be reduced, if the difference which now ex-
ists in price between Memel timber ; the price of Memel timber being 61. Ss. and
colonial timber,,the 'price of colonial timber being 31. :)s. The existing difference
being therefore-31. should be reduced to 30s. ? Judging from the previous rela-
tive differences which have obtained in the market -I should say the colonial
would be reduced one half by being brought within that compass.
Is not the colonial timber as valuable for some uses as the foreign timber?
Quite as suitable I believe for some purposes,and more suitable in many instances,
because it is wider.
Then if a difference of :ios. was to exist between them, would it not be used in
preference for those particular purposes ? Certainly, for those particular purposes.
You stated, that laying on a duty of ten shillings on the colonial timber might be
advantageous to the trade of the Colonies, and that taking off ten shillings from the
duty on foreign timber would be very disadvantageous ; why do you make this
difference in the two modes of bringing the prices of the two sorts of timber to the
same relative difference ? ' I explained in a former answer, that I understood it was
probable the effect of laying on a duty might lie to improve the general character of
the importation, and by improving the general character an advance in the market
price might arise.

Why do you think that taking the ten shillings off the Baltic timber would not
have the same effect ? Because the character of the colonial wood would not he
improved by that measure ; but the imposition of the duty. would prevent the same
speculative importations.
Would not the effect be tomake the duty in either case, as a distinction, ten shil-
lings less between the two timbers than it is at present ; that if a duty to the extent
of ten shillings were taken off; the person shipping American timber must ship it
under the impression of that duty being taken off, and therefore' that he must pre-
pare for the increased Competition : does not it approximate in the same way ?
There is only the same difference in the figures, but I consider the effect would be
different. I do not know how to assign any other cause then I have already ex-
pressed for that opinion, but I conceive from my communication with colonists and
others, that the result would be as I have stated.
Would not the effect of the imposition of 10s. in the duty be to raise American
timber 10s. or more than 10s. ? If it improved the character of the wood and re-
duced the supply, the market price would advance, I think that 10s. duty would re-
duce the supply, and then an advance in the market price might take place.
Is not the timber trade at present very much carried on by the colonial merchant
and the ship-owner ? The trade is not now confined to merchants, but the ship-
owners have latterly been large importers.
Do you consider that the natural state of the trade ? I consider that it is not the
natural state of the trade.
Can you state in what years you conceive the wood trade to have been in its
most natural state ? That is a question I ..am not prepared to answer.
Would you say it was in its natural state about the year 1817 ? Ido not feel
myself able to answer the question at present.
You have adverted to the loss sustained at present upon the importation of wood ;
do not you attribute that to the excessive importations that have taken place for the
last two years ? Yes ; I consider it to arise from the redundant importations.
You have stated, that there are some purposes to which the American wood is
preferable, and many to which it is equally applicable with the wood from the north
of Europe? Ido consider, that for purposes where.a large surface is required, it
is preferable for a gireat many purposes ; the preference is always given to the
cheapest article that can be procured.
Do not yon consider those, generally speaking, the inferior purposes of the
country? I do.
Do you know what proportion the consumption of wood, in these inferior pur-
poses, bears to the general consumption of wood in the country? It constitutes a
very large feature in the consumption.
Do not you think, that for those purposes a comparative cheapness, to the
amount of five and thirty shillings, would be sufficient to cast the balance in favour
of the American timber? As a speculative opinion I should say yes, for some
purposes.
Are you acquainted writh the nature of the timber trade between the United
States and Canada ? I have same knowledge of it from report, not from a resi-
dence in the colonies, for X never' was there.
Is there much timber, or any great quantity of deals brought into Canada from
the United States, which are exported and received in this country on the same
terms with Canadian timber? I should conceive a considerable quantity.
What regulations would, in your opinion, be best adapted to ascertain at Quebec
what timber and deals were of the produce of Canada, and what was the produce
of the United States? Certificates of origin.
. Would it not be expedient, that the custom-house at Quebec should themselves
inquire into the truth of the origin, and grant those certificates only upon beinge
satisfied that such proof was correct ? I should conceive there would be no other
way of obtaining correct certificates of origin.
'Filen such examination at Quebec, and such certificates. would, in your opinion,
secure Abe revenue against any attempt at imposition by shipping timber, the pro-
duce of America as the produce of the colonies? If proper precautions were ob-
-served by the officers granting the certificates.
• Rave you any account of the annual imports from Russia, extracted from the
official returns, and the average exports flour great Britain to Russia, from the
official returns ? I have. -

[The witness delivered in the same, and it was read as follows :I

Average ANNUAL EurouTsfrom Russia, extracted from the official returns.

Timber.

Deals.

Deal Ends.

1799 to 1802
1816 to 1819

Loads.
16,948
11),625

Hundreds. I Hundreds.
6,448 I 1.465
8,115 I 3,909

Not 2.

R. SEPPINGS.

Navy Office, 19 Feb 1821.
An Account of the Frigates built in the Years 1P.12 and 1813, of American Fir,
showing the Places where built, and the-Names of the Builders.

Place where built.

Builders' Names.

No. 4

R. SEPPINGS.

Navy Office, I 9th February, 1821.-
An Account of the Specific Gravity, Strength, and Deflection, of the several kindk
Lf Foreign Fir, as found by Mr. Peter Barlow, by experiments made under:
his inspection, from Timber supplied from his Majesty's Yard at Woolwich.
N. B.—The pieces tried were 8 feet long, 2 inches square,_ supported by props-
-7 feet apart, and had the weights placed in the middle of each piece.

Average
I Breaking Ultimate
Names of the Woods. Specific
Weight. reflection.
Gravity.
lhs. •• in.
Red Pine . . . . 657 511 , 5.82

American Red Pine . .
New England Fir, or Yellow Pine .
Riga Fir . .
Norway Spar . . . . .

657
)53
753
577

lhs.
511
420
422
655

5.82
4.66
6.00
4.00

These experiments dd not appear to have been extended to Dantzic fir
but, from the best judgment 1 can form, the Dantzic and Riga timber as
similate in quality and strength when equally clear of knots.

No. 5

It. SEPPINGS.

An Account of the number of Loads of Timber, with the expense per load,
required in building a Frigate of 4 guns, of Canada Fir, and Baltic Fir,
respectively.

For the building of a frigate of 46 guns wholly of fir timber, which can be done
with very few exceptions, by the present method of constructing ships, about
1,100 loads will be required. The contract prices of Baltic fir, with the duty
added, and Canada fir, exclusive of the duty, are the same, viz. 61. 12s. 6d. per
load ; this, for a frigate built of Canada fir, will amoant to 7,2871. The duty on
the Baltic fir is 31. 4s. 1 Id. per load; deducting this, it will cost the government
for timber 3,7171. The workmanship and other materials will be the same in
each case. When sold out of the service, the value of either will be the same or
nearly so, as the wood is generally used fur fuel.

R. SEPPINGS.

Navy Office, 19th February, 1821.

No. 6.

To the right honourable the Lords of his Majesty's Privy Council, for the Affairs

of Trade.

Memorial of the Russia Company, by their Governor,'Sam. Thornton, Esq.
The period fixed by act of parliament for the importation of wood du'ty free,
from our North American colonies, being about to expire,:--
Your Memorialists beg leave to .represent the grievance which they feel from
the present system, and to submit the following considerations, which may show,
that while it is ruinous to the trade in which your memorialists were, till the intro-
duction of that system, beneficially engaged, it is injurious to the general com-
merce of the country and to the interests of the community at large, and unpro-
ductive of public revenue in any proportion to these d!sadvantages.
When the present high duties on Russia and Baltic timber, deals, &c. were
first laid on, the difference between the Baltic and Canada freights in favour of
the former was equivalent to the exemption of duty in favour of the latter. Thus,
in the instance of fir timber, the freight in 1812 from_ the colonies was 61. to 61.
ss. per load, while that from the Baltic was 21. 1 Os. to 21. Iss: and the duty on
the latter 31 ss. ; making the aggregate of freight and duty on Baltic timber
somewhat less than the freight alone from Canada.
But since the peace, freights ha\Ting declined to 21. ss. on timber from Canada,
and to 11. from the Baltic, the comparison will stand thus :

Freight from the colonies
No duty

I. s. d.
.2 5 0
.0 0 0

Freight from the Baltic
Duty .

2 5 0

.1 0 0
.3 5 0

4 5 0

making the aggregate of freight and duty on Baltic exceed the expences of impor-
tation on American timber by 21. per load, or equal to about 100 or 150 per cent.
on the prime cost.
The effect of this difference, which is in fact an enormous bounty on wood from
America, has been to force the exportation from thence hither to a very extra-
ordinary extent, and to reduce the price in this country below what similar descrip-
tions from the Baltic can be afforded at, assuming the lowest possible cost of pro-
duction.

The tendency of this measure, however, was not fully anticipated, and the
Russia and other Baltic merchants were accordingly not early enough aware of the
impossibility of maintaining the competition: They therefore for some time after
the peace continued and even extended their importations; but these being at-
tended with ruin to many, and loss to all the parties concerned, a sensible diminu-
tion has of late taken place; and if the present scale of duties is to be continued,
there can be no doubt that as soon as the few remaining capitals can be disengaged
(a process always requiring some lapse of time) from this branch of business, it
must be abandoned wholly, or continued only for specific and very partial pur-
poses, such as the use of his Majesty's dock-yards or other public, works.
The detrimental effects arising from the present scale of duties are not confined
to the Baltic timber trade, but will be found to extend to important branches of
the export trade of this country ; inasmuch as the power of consumption of British
manufactures and colonial produce, by very.nurnerous classes of the inhabitants of
Russia, Prussia, and Sweden, is very much reduced by their inability to make
payments to the extent that they otherwise would do in the article of wood, to
which the present duties, nearly prohibitory, apply ; while, on the other hand,
there is every reason to presume that a reduction of those obnoxious duties would
be viewed with particular satisfaction by the governments of the above-mentioned
states, and might probably be followed by important concessions and facilities on
their part.
With a view, too, to the general interests of trade, it is clearly desirable that
our merchant vessels should be built as cheaply as possible, consistent with their
durability, in order to encounter the competition of foreign shipping ; but this ob-
ject is counteracted in an eminent degree by the high price at which every-descrip-
tion of wood is artificially kept by the present system of duties. -=
To the community at large it is a serious evil, arising out of the present system
of a forced and almost exclusive importation of American timber, to be confined
to use at a comparatively high price a description of wood which, independently
of its inferiority of quality in other respects, is ,supposed, upon apparently strong
grounds, to have spread, to an enormous extent among ships and houses, the pre-
viously rare disease of the Dry Rot; and the public is thus taxed in the worst
possible way, without any corresponding benefit to the revenue of the state, or
rather to the detriment of that revenue; as there is every reason to believe, that, if
the duty on Baltic timber were reduced to what it was prior to 1810, the total re-
ceipt of custom's on that branch of trade would be increased.
Your memorialists therefore presume to hope that the opportunity which now
legitimately presents itself May be embraced, for the purpose of revising and alter-
ing a system, which is not inure injurious and unjust to 'the, importers of Baltic
timber than disadvantageous and impolitic in a national point of view.
March, 1820.

No. 7.

Remarks on the Trade of Memel, particularly as regards the article of Timber.
This branch of trade was for many years the only one carried on to any extent at
Memel ; it was the chief source of opulence to a great portion of the people resi-
dent in the interior of Poland and Prussia; it 'afforded them the means of living
in affluence, and of providing themselves with a variety of articles of luxury, which
were principally the produce of Great Britain and her )lonies. The ships by which
this trade was carried on were chiefly British, and to this day they have by much
the greatest share of it; but the difference of tonnage required to convey timber
from Memel to Great Britain, previous to the year 1807, as compared with that
now employed in this way, is very celsiderable indeed, as will be shown in the sequel.
Whilst the duty on Baltic wood was at the former low rates in England, the
quantity of timber exported annually from Memel was from 150,000 to 200,000
loads ; and for the twenty years Elm 1787 to 1 EO7 it may be computed at a yearly
aver►ge of 180,000, reckoning 50 running feet to the load, as is usual there.
Whilst the continental system was in force little business was done. During that
period the rates cf duty were raised in England on wood from the north of Europe,
• which, remaining in force after peace had been restored, served greatly to depress
' the timber trade of Prussia; and so much to reduce the quantity required for the
British markets, that the intercourse between the Prussian sea-ports and the interior
of that'country and Poland, and the sale of foreign commodities to the inhabitants
of those districts, were greatly diminished. The decrease of the trade will by