The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-04 00:00:00

Mr. COLLETT mi,ved that the declaration be read
by the Clerk at the table.
was met with erie: of " No, no," and loud
laughter, amid wh!eh the Hon. Member withdrew his
'notion.
Mr. DIVETI

- : , t at Frederick. VLettio, Thomas
liteee . :lest j esti daeistary Grant teeetaer with Mr.
Pieet ss, b - sweetened to appear at the bar of the House
trees rree.
Sir G. GREY suggested that Monday would be a
more convenient day.
Mr. Div Err having consented to adopt this recom-
mendation, the motioli was passed without opposition.
AMENDMENT
AMENDMET (SCO MANI)) BILL.
On the motion for the committal of this Bitl,
Mr. OSWALD stated that he had great objection to
this till. It appeared to him that the board to be con-
statu!ed by this Bill would ultimately resolve itself into
et paid commission. The board would not answer the
purpose for which it was intended. It would impede the
operation of the p 'or-law system, and greater difficulties
would be raised in the management of the poor than be-
fore existed. Believing that Scotland had not had time
to make up its mind on this important matter, and be-
lieving that there was no necessity for this Bill this ses-
sion, he should move that the Bill be committed that day
three months. (The Hon. Gentleman was scarcely au-
dible in the gallery.)
Mr. SHEIL said he had a question to ask as to—
The SPEAKER said that if the question the Right
Hon. Gentleman had to put had reference to the Bill
now under discussion, he might put it, but otherwise he
could not.
Mr. SHEIL said it had not reference te the Bill, and
therefore he would not put it.
Mr. EDWARD ELLICE said he would make but a
few observations upon this measure. If the Hon. Mem-
ber who had brought forward this measure was unpre-
pared to sustain it by a long speech, so also was he (Mr.
Ellice) unprepared to give the measure his support. The
measure of last year was supposed to contain provisions
for relieving the state of the poor of Scotland ; it would,
on the contrary, make matters worse, or leave them as
they were, or at any rate it would afford no real relief
to the poor of Scotland. His opinioe was, that the pro-
per step would have been to improve the parochial
boards. It was necessary that some new authority
should be introduced ; but this new Bill does not do that
sotisfactorily. An attempt had been made by this Bill
to constitute a new machinery for the management of
the poor of Scotland. The condition of the poor was
different in different localities. The poor in the great
towns might be managed under the authorities which
at present existed—the poor in the manufacturing and
rural districts must be managed on a principle wholly
different, and the poor in the Highlands required a peculiar
system of their, own. He thought his Right Hon. Friend
would have doge better by providing for these cases.
He ought to have, as in this country, local grants for
the wants of different localities. He did not approve of
that centralisation which this Bill promoted. Why could
not Glasgow, Edinburgh, Perth, and Dundee, be legis-
lated for by local Acts, and their large pauper popula-
tion thus provided for. The corporate authorities of
these towns and cities would, he felt assured, administer
to the wants of the poor in a proper manner ; but he
had no objection to their being restricted by any rules
and regulations which might be deemed advisable. He
entreated the Right Hon. Baronet to be cautions in his
appointments through fear of creating jealousy by se-
lecting incapable, indiscreet, or imprudent men. If that
course be practised in Scotland, a set of things would
arise which would render the poor-law inoperative. He
would ask him to postpone this measure, seeing that
there was an absolute want of some means of improving
it. The measure would only make the present confusion
in Scotland still more difficult.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD believed that it was necessary for
him to say afew words, in consequence of statements u hich
he made on a former night, and which were eontradicted
by an Hon. Member on his side of the House. Since
that time he had had an opportunity of referring to the
evidence of the Scotch Commissioners, and of inquiring
whether his statements were supported or not by that
evidence. It stated that there was an insufficiency of
relief in that country. The Hon. Gentleman then re-
ferred to the evidence of Mr. Duncan Ross, the Rev. A.
M'Pherson, Mr. M'Kenzie, and several others in sup-
port of his own statements. The paupers to whom the
small allowances were given were those who were de-
scribed as being disabled, and incapable of work. This
description was given by the steward of the Duke of
Sutherland. The poor in Scotland were provided for by
being permitted to beg. Those who could not beg
themselves were supported by those who were capable
of going about the country seeking alms. This system
was opposed by the Duke of Sutherland, as ap-
peared in the evidence taken on this subject.
The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to read extracts
from the minutes of evidence taken before the Poor-law
Commissioners with respect to the effects of the clear-
ance system. According to the evidence of Mr. Donald
M`Donald, of Lochinvar, who occupied 30,000 acres of
land, that gentleman employed only eleven shepherds.
This, continued the Hon. Gentleman, was one of many
similar cases which that report revealed, and which he
would show to the House by other and most unexcep-
tionable evidence. The Hon. Gentleman here read ex-
tracts from the evidence of several clergymen in Suther-
landshire, showing the general prevalence of the
sheep-walk system, and the deplorable effects which he
contended it had brought upon the whole population.
With regard to the fishing village of Helmsdale, of
which so much had been said, it had fallen off to a very
*Teat extent, and, at the present time, scarcely employed
G
any fishermen belonging to Sutherlandshire. They
nearly all came from the neighbouring counties. With
'regard to the rental of Sutherland, it had been asserted
that More than 60,0001. above the sum realised had been
spent in improvements from 1811 to 1833. If this was
so, it seemed that there was no proof of the improvements
for the rental in 1815 was 33,874/. ; it was now only 35,5501.
It had been stated the morals of the people were im-
proved, and the proof given was, that illicit distillation
had almost entirely ceased. But there might be other
reasons for this change, for if the country was one entire
pasture field, where were the opportunities for illicit
distillation ? He should like to see an industrious po-
pulation as the proof of the prosperity of a country, but
the evidence in this case showed that the country had
been almost depopulated. It was, in fact, inhabited only
by sheep and shepherds. In 1801 the population was
53,117, and now it was only 24,718, and this, be it re-
membered, in a country counting 1,120,000 square acres.
It used to be stated that the paupers were well attended
to, but this had been shown to be a delusion. He hoped
that the principle " there is no room for the poor man
would be discouraged in the county of Sutherland.—
(Hear, hear.) Would they then by this law place the
power of relieving the poor in the hands of the local
authorities there, or if they did place that power in
their hands, should they not at least take care to place
them sufficiently under restriction ? He did not in these
remarks wish to cast the least reflection on the Duke of
Sutherland, for by all reports his Grace was the very
last person who would oppress the poor man. He would
conclude by supporting the motion of the Hon. Member
for Glasro w.
Mr. LOCH said that the view taken by the Hon.
Gentleman related to the defects in the county of Suther-
lard in particular, and in Scotland in general, and he
would at once admit, that no man could be more sensible
than he, that the poor-law, as at present administered,
was most defective. Having stated this, he would at
once proceed to consider the allegations which had been
advanced against those who administered affairs in the
county of Sutherland—and first, it had been alleged that
the Duke of Sutherland only gave relief to the extent of
G/. per week in each parish. This was not the fact. He
(Mr. Loch) would maintain that his Grace, under the
present system, administered charity to the poor in as
great, if not a greater degree, than any other proprietor.
He could state, with certainty, that no alteration had
taken place, with respect to the local settlements of the
men in Sutherland fur the last twenty years. He, how-
ever, did not wish that this statement should be received
on his unsupported affirmation ; and he would therefore
read extracts from the statistical accounts made
by the Reverend Mr. Kennedy, Minister of Dornoch.
The Hon. Member then read very considerable extracts
from the book in question to show, by tho evidence of
the clergymen in the different parishes, that the do-
mestic habits of the people had been greatly improved,
and that education had been greatly extended among
them. He also read a letter from a gentleman of great
respectability in the county of Forfar, who, having
visited Sutherlandehire prejudiced against the manner in
which things were managed there, had been compelled to
change his opinions, and acknowledge that a decided
improvement had taken place in the condition of the poor
in that country. Having read these extracts, he did not
think it would be necessary for him to add one word
more. He would but advert to the endeavours made by
his Grace to extend education to the people there. It
bed been very difficult to get schools erected while they
were distributed in small townships, but as they were
now collected in larger masses, his Grace had determin, d
on building twelve schools in connexion with the
General Assembly, at a cost of 2001. each, and he
also added 2001. in aid of the funds of the Ge-
neral Assembly, and, therefore, taking everything
in viow, he contended that there was a foundation
laid in the county of Sutherland for improvement,
both in the moral and religious education of the people.
He might mention that in the year 1817, when there
was great destitution in the county, and when assistance
was given by his Grace, it was found that 408 families,
or 2,000 persons, had settled down without leave being
asked, or rent paid ; but instead of turning them off the
land, they were assisted like the others, and the only
demand made was, that at the earliest opportunity they
should vacate the " crofts " of which they had thus
' taken possession. The Duke of Sutherland kept his te-
nants under a nominal rent, in order that they might not.
• be wanderers, and the intention was followed by the de-
aired result. He congratulated the Duke of Sutherland
on his being connected so closely with the moral and.
physical improvement of his countrymen.
Sir J. IWTEGGAN said that believing, as he did, that
at this late period of the session a Bill of this import-
ance could not obtain that consideration which he deemed
necessary, he should vote for the motion of the Hon
Member for Glasgow.
The LORD ADVOCATE trusted that they might be
*Mowed to go into Committee on this Bill. There were
a, great many criticisms offered on it which would be
taken into consideration. He thought that they had had
Plenty of i!,ne since the first of April, when the Bill was
introduced, to consider it.
Mr. SHEIL said, ;:teat the most important clause in
this Bill was one which, if eeeried into law, would have
a most pernicious and a most fata:h.!'
ruirrion on Ireland.
s
It was provided that no Irishman ,sditaip a settle-
ment by residence :a Scotland. They mitset'.4.: tell
him it was fair, because these hardships were imposed
NE wsp.t pi, . , n Englishmen and the inhabitants of the Isle
.. Man. But, practically, Scotchesen did not re-
(?"•\sse277.-, s;,,qu e a settlement in Ireland. In Ireland no settlement
4,,,,/,::-"' - ,t(-:-7-A4bg• might say was required by Scotchmen, therefore
- ',is S'.: c:,`" lr--' en, Englishmen, or inhabitants of the Isle of
(
should have no settlement in Scotland by real-
e: Se e
, i. In Scotland, if an Irishman had been residing
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for twenty years, and had left at the age of sixteen,
and after that had been employed iu a factory until he
he ,vas too old to work, and ashamed to beg, they sent
him back to Ireland because he had not been born in
tint country. When there was distress in Scotland he
recollected that the Irish in that oilintry were excluded
from the advantages of the subscriptions ~hieh were
raised for the relief of those distressed. The Bill was
directed against a large Irish population, who did not go
to Scotland for mendacity, and he thought that natu-
ralisation ought to be the result of industry. He would
ask the Lord Advocate if he were prepared to make any
change in this measure? If he did not, he (Mr. Sheil)
thought that the Scotch Members were not prepared to
support him in this system of direct national discrimi-

nation.
Mr. F. MAULE wished to give a reason why he
should vote for the motion of the lion. Member for
Glasgow. He was of opinion that no law would be
satisfactory to the Hon. Gentleman himself (the Lord
Advocate), or to the country, unless it offered some
permanent advantages. He would ask whether this Bill
embodied principles which were likely to become per-
manent or satisfactory? After due consideration he
believed that by taking more time to consider they
would arrive at a better measure, and for this reason,
that they had not yet discovered the proper way to deal
with the people of Scotland. In Edinburgh and in
Glasgow associations assembled for the purpose of pro-
tecting the poor. Some of these societies applied to
him to become a member, but he told them that the best
association for the relief of the poor was the legislature
of the country. If they did not beware they would have
these associations spreading up, which would interfere
with the good government, the peace and tranquillity of
the country. He thought that by suspending their
jedgment, and by taking opinions in this matter during
the interval, after this session they would be more likely
to arrive at a more satisfactory settlement.
Mr. REDINGTON thought that there were two
clauses in this Bill which would have a material opera-
tion on the people of Ireland. He would ask the Lord
Advocate why he advocated a measure which no com-
mittee of the House was ever asked to assent to ? The
first objection was the question of settlement. There
was a clause enabling the removal of paupers to other
parts of the empire, which was a hardship much dwelt
upon by the Commissioners. According to this Bill
there was no earthly means by which an Irishman could
obtain a settlement in Scotland. The law at present
was, that three years' industrial residence would give
any person a right of relief. But if this Bill passed, no
person could obtain relief under any circumstances what-
ever, unless he was a Scotchman. He knew instances of
Englishmen and Scotchmen being admitted into poor-
houses in Ireland—in fact, they were never asked what
country they came from, it was only necessary to know
that they had six months' residence, which gave them
the right of settlement. and, consequently, they could
claim relief. He did think that Irishmen ought to re-
ceive the same sympathy in Scotland that Scotchmen did
in Ireland.
Mr. SCOTT wished to say a few words on the 71st
clause. He was of opinion that the law of settlement
should not be discussed until they came to the 73d clause.
He had been in communication with the Lord Advocate
on this subject ; but he had found it impossible to pro-
cure a law of settlement for the Scotch paupers in Eng-
land ; and therefore he begged to say that it was quite
absurd to suppose that any invidious distinction was
made in regard to Irish paupers in Scotland.
Mr. ELLIS would trespass on the time of the House
for a few moments. He did believe that prudent, good
legislation might prevent much of the distress that ex-
isted in the Highlands of Scotland ; and he had an
impression amounting to conviction, that a great deal of
that distress had been owing to the clearance system.—
(Hear, hear.) He had heard attacks made upon certain
persons in Sutherlandshire ; but he should say that
many of those attacks were unfounded, and that a great
deal of kindness and humanity had been evinced in that
country to those who had been evicted. If those who
represented that a degree of harshness had been used to
individuals in Sutherlandshire, would only prolong their
journey to the north, they would find many instances of
much greater harshness. ---(Hear, hear.) This was the
first Government who had ever taken up this question,
and, therefore, he had had much difficulty in deciding
on the course he should adopt in regard to it. However,
he had made up his mind, and he would say, that though
he was aware that Scotland did stand in need of a re-
formed system of poor-law, still, as he did not think this
Bill made that provision, he would vote for the amend
ment. He looked upon this Bill as containing much o
valuable matter ; but some of the clauses were so objec-
tionable, and gave it so much the character of what his
Hon. Friend the Member for Renfrewshire had called a
landlord's Bill, that he should oppose it, particularly in
consequences of the provision it made for boards of ap-
peal, which were not by any means calculated to afford
satisfactory and prompt modes of appeal to the poor
man. The Honourable Member then read an extract
from a speech made by one of the sheriffs of Scotland, and
contended that that speech bore out his argument against
the board of appeal. He would next call attention to the
defective provisions the Bill contained for affording suit-
able protection to the lunatic poor, in which he consi-
dered. he was borne out by what had already taken place
in this country in reference to pauper lunatics. In Eng-
land he was aware that the people were assessed for sup-
porting their lunatic poor, and he would admit the justice
of such a law, and if such was intended by this Bill for
Scotland, he did think the first thing the Bill should do
would be to define that assessment ; and if it did not, the
Government would find they would have to come back
to the House to ask for such a provision,
Mr. P. M. STEWART said he had presented several
petitions from various parts of Scotland, most of them
approving of parts of the Bill, but all of them praying
that it should be postponed till next session. He wanted
to know what was the reason of the undue haste which
had been shown in endeavouring to pass the Bill during
the present session ? The history of the Bill had been
given by the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down,
and therefore he would not enter into the particulars.
The Hon. Member for Perth had said the Bill could not
work well, unless it had the confidence of the people of
Scotland. The powers of the Commission extended to
act in all the parts of Scotland by a vicarious change.
The Commissioners were invested with altogether terrific
powers, as respected the working of the measure. They
were not only to name the number of the representatives,
but they were also empowered to decide who they were to
be. He would ask why were the rate-payers to be
represented by any other individuals than those chosen
by themselves ; and why should the clergy of the Esta-
blished Church be exempted from the payment of rates
for the poor, while the great majority of the other
clergymen was subject to assessment? He believed the
intention of the Lord Advocate, in bringing forward this
Bill, was well meant to the people of Scotland; but still
the Bill was so objectionable to all the competent autho-
rities in Scotland, and to all connected with the admi-
nistration of the law, that the Government should pause
before they hurried it through this session. He would
ask, was there a single petition presented in favour of
this Bill from Scotland ?
Colonel RAWDON objected to the Bill, and espe-
cially to clause 72. By it Irishmen were placed in a
different position in Scotland, to what Scotchmen were
in Ireland. The Irishman would derive Lc) benefit from
it. In the removal of Irish paupers, there was no protec-
tion whatever that an Irishman could not be sent off from
the nearest port in Scotland for transhipment to Ireland.
In his opinion, the 72d clause made poverty a crime. If
any Irishman attempted to come back again in search of
employment, he was liable to be imprisoned and punished
with hard labour. This was a provision contrary to jus-
tice and to the interests of Ireland. lie believed there
were 50,000 Irishmen in Glasgow, and that was a strong
case that great consideration should be bestowed on the
measure before it went into Committee.
Mr. 'VIVIAN said that the great evil in Ireland was
want of employment, and that was the reason why so
many of the poor Irish made a practice of coming into
Scotland and England. There were from 150,000 to
200,000 Irish in the cities of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Pais-
ley, Greenock, and their vicinities. He could not con-
ceive anything more unjust than the proposed measure
in its present form, as it regarded the treatment of Irish-
men in. Scotland, and he trusted that her Majesty's Go-
vernment would reconsider the matter.
Mr. ESCOTT had listened with great attention. ;le
had heard six or seven Members for Ireland express
there objection against certain portions of the proposed
measure ; and had also heard several Scottish Members
express similar opinions. Not one Hon. Member had
risen to defend the Bill. He must say that when on a
former occasion he was present in the House, he had
listened to the Lord Advocate, and from the observa-
tions which had fallen from him, it appeared to him
(Mr. Escott) that there was room for a better adminis-
tration of' the poor-law in Scotland. He considered
some of the provisions of the proposed law might be
carried into effect with benefit to the people in Scotland,
but it would be advisable to inquire further into the
state of the poor, in order that the efficacy of the
measure might be sufficiently tested. He felt himself
called upon to say thus much. All the evils that had
resulted in England and Ireland, from the operation
of the poor-laws, had resulted from want of sufficient
consideration of those schemes before they became the
law of the land. He believed that if the report of the
Commissioners, appointed to investigate into the
condition of the poor, had not been so implicity acted
upon, the beneficial results would have been great.
The poor laws both of England and Ireland required
considerable supervision. It was proposed that the Poor-
law Commissioners for Sc itland should have the same
powers as those of England and Ireland. Such a system
was highly objectionable to the feelings of the people of
Scotland, and it had been stated by all those who were
competent to judge of the matter, that the further con-
sideration of the Bill should be postponed to another
session. He wanted to know what there was in the pre-
sent state of the psor-law of Scotland that required alter-
ation. It was advisable that the intentions of that mea-
sure should be carried out t) their fullest extent, and
practically enforced before such a measure as that now
proposed was entered into.
Mr. DUNDAS, after a few preliminary remarks, in
which he strongly reprobated some observations which
had fallen from the Honourable Member for Winchester
(Mr. Escott), observed that it was true the wants of the
poor, to his own knowledee, in certain districts in Scot-
land, were very great and urgent. Reports had been
published from time to time of the condition of the people
in the north of Scotland, and they were not without
foundation. He did not believe that the poor
whom we have always with us had yet attained
their proper position in Scotland.—( Loud c)
If the House would go through the evidence, as he had
done, they would see with him the extreme suffering
under which the poor of Scotland were labouring ; and
„rah being the state, he, not as a landlord or owner of
- -, hut as a man of humane Christian feelings,
the sole • measure likely to benefit his country.
would support any ' 's svitera of Scotch existence
(Hear, hear.) The who,. - —6i©h every class retie
was built upon the mutual support ts .._ .
.fit
dered one another, end he contended that ;:::,- '"'"—
credit was due to the poor as well as the rich, for the
Inerous assisttlnce they tendered to their pfforing

brethren, who, uncomplainingly, endured distress almost
without a parallel.—(Clie2rs.) And what was their
present state ? What was the food they now received ?
Why just what he himself had in his youth lived on :
for he was not ashamed to admit—notwithstanding that
many behind him had perhaps been educated and
clothed in purple and fine linen—that he had
fed on nothing but oatmeal porridge.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. Campbell, the minister of an important parish in
the county, had giien similar evidence ; and in that
state, therefore, he was ready to support any measure
calculated to improve the poor. But the Bill now be-
fore the House, and the particular clause in question,
would go far to prevent, rather than promote, the inte-
rests of that class. It was inhospitable and unjust; and,
although unwilling to inconvenience the Government,
he must oppose the measure in its present state.
Sir J. GRAHAM lived on the English side of the
Scottish frontiers, and he could attest that a great num-
ber of English had obtained a settlement in Scotland,
while the Scotch could not obtain a similar hospitable
reception in the English borders. The Bill was in-
tended to equalise these anomalies. A clause was intro-
duced to make a three years' industrial residence alone
give a settlement in Scotland ; but he would not wish to
press it eventually contrary to the inclination and opinion
of the country. If, however, the measure were rejected,
the Government would have the satisfaction of having
done their duty fearlessly and conscientiously ; and on
the House must rest the responsibility of the overthrow-
ing a Bill brought in with the purest intentions.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it .
Majority for going into Committee —43
The House then went into Committte on the Bill.
On clause 1 being put,
Mr. E. ELLICE moved that the words " relief and
maintenance" should be held to include necessary medical
relief.
The LORD ADVOCATE contended that in many
cases such a provision would be very difficult to carry
out. For instance, in the case of a parish in which no
medical man resided—as was frequently the case in
Scotland—in that case a medical man must be supported
at the workhouse of the parish.
Mr. E. ELLICE considered that relief was illusory
unless it was accompanied by medical relief, and inti-
mated that he would press his amendment.
Lord DUNCAN hoped his Hon. Friend would post-
pone his amendment, and make it another clause of the
Bill.
Mr. E. ELLICE said he would abide by his proposi-
tion, that medical relief was the most important relief
that could be afforded to the poor, especially in thinly
populated districts. He would adhere to his amendment.
The LORD ADVOCATE said that the meaning of
the word " relief " included medical attendance.
Mr. P. SCROPE—Then, why not introduce it in
plain terms, to prevent any ambiguity ?
Mr. HENLEY said, it appeared that a deplorable
amount of destitution prevailed in Scotland, and that
nothing was so much wanted as medical relief. He did
not believe that the Bill would provide for the wants of
the poor of Scotland, still he thought the Bill, if it
really meant to afford medical aid, should say so, to pre-
vent all disputes.
Mr. ELLICE remarked that if the Government would
not give way on the point, and insert the words in the
Bill, that the term relief meant medical aid, he would
consider the measure a mere mockery and delusion.
Mr. FOX MAULE stated that it would not be possible
to afford medical relief in the manner his Hon. Friend
required, especially in the islands and very thinly peopled
districts. If carried out it would operate most oppres-
sively on those who would be called on to bear the
expense.
Sir J. GRAHAM thought it was not proper to hold
out expectations that could not be realised. They should
do all that legislation could do to afford relief, but he
considered that what the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ellice)
proposed would be found impracticable.
Mr. ELLICE contended that the arrangement was
not so impracticable as Hon. Members seemed to think.
He would certainly take the sense of the House on his
amendment.
Mr. GLADSTONE explained that there was a clause
in the Bill which rendered it optional with the perish
authorities to include medical relief in parochial relief.
After a few words from Mr. F. MAULE and Mr. Emacz
the gallery was cleared for a division.
On our return the numbers were—
For the amendment ! 25
Against it
Majority against it J —37
After a few words from Mr. GLADSTONE, the
clause was agreed to.
Clause 2 was agreed to, as was clause 3.
Upon clause 4 being proposed,
Mr. BOUVERIE wished to know what the specific
sum was, that was to be paid to the Commissioners ?
Sir J. GRAHAM could not answer the question. The
money was not to be paid out of the Consolidated Fund,
and would, therefore, come under the annual revision of
the House.
Mr. BOUVERIE said he thought the words " ade-
quate salary," in the clause, of much too general a
nature.
Mr. COLLETT said this clause was one upon which
he had given notice of an amendment. It referred to
the payment of sheriffs f‘ as long as they continued mem-
bers of the Board," as the clause set forth. He thought
the words too general, and saw no reason why they
should be paid 100/. a year each. He concluded by
moving the following amendment:—" To leave out all
the words in the clause, from the word' board' to the
end of it."
Mr. DUNDAS said that they would never get a
lawyer to work well unless they paid him, and he
thought that the words ought to stand.
Mr. F. FRENCH said that nothing could be more
moderate than the payment of 100/. a-year, and espe-
cially when he remembered the large sum of 1,0001 and
1,5001. a year, which was given to the Poor-law Com-
missioners both in England and Ireland, he thought that
this remuneration ought to be given.
Lord DUNCAN thought that the best way to secure
the attendance of the officers was to pay them.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that all the experience lay on
the side of the payment of the Commissioners.
Mr. BOUVERIE thought that the true principle was
to pay a man according to his work. A gentleman might
be paid his 1001. and yet not attend once in the year.
Sir R. PEEL said that certainly some reliance ought
to be placed on the honour of the parties concerned.
Mr. P. SCROPE said that the best way of securing
the attendance of the members was to publish an account
of their proceedings, and in his opinion the plan would
be Improved if they were to appoint two paid Commis-
sioners instead of four.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the best check was
to be found, when the duty of the Commissioners was
brought before Parliament and the annual estimates
were put before them.
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the clause
was passed.
Clauses 5,6, 7, and 8, were then agreed to, after a
few words from the LORD ADVOCATE, as were the
clauses up to 16.
On clause 16 being proposed,
Mr. LOCKIIART moved an amendment—that in
page 7, line 25, after the word " parish" to insert the
words, "Provided always, that such combination shall
not take effect until the board of supervision shall by
an order have directed the parochial boards of the re-
spective parishes to take into consideration the matter
of such combination, and it within a reasonable time, to
be specified in such order, the parochial board of any
of the parishes shall, by a majority of two-thirds, resolve
against having such parish included in the combination,
and shall intimate such resolution to the board
of supervision, such parish shall not be included in
the combination." In moving this amendment, he thought
that its very terms presented a reason for its adoption.
For instance, in the ca-e of Glasgow, there was one
parish in the union which contained a larger population,
and was assessed in a larger amount, and thirty-three
of the other out-unions, and in 1856, according to the
usual increase, this district would contain upwards of
600,000 inhabitants. The inequality of this assessment
was, therefore, a positive injustice. The parish of Glas-
gow was under one system of management, while other
parishes had several trusts. He had no objection to
combinations, but he thought that the clause was insuf-
ficient, and he should therefore move the addition to it
of which he had given notice.
On a suggestion of the CHAIRMAN, the amendment
was postponed until Lord Duncan's motion was settled.
Lord DUNCAN then proposed the omission of
clause 16, and the insertion of the following in its place:
—" That in every case where it may appear to the board
of supervision, on application by the parochial boards of
ony one or more adjoining parishes, or from a regard
to the relative situation of two or more such parishes,
or from any other circumstances, that the administration
of the affairs of the poor therein might be carried on
with greater advantage to the said parishes and to the
poor therein, by the said parishes being combined for
the purposes of this Act ; then the parochial boards of
such parishes shall meet, on requisition to' that effect by
the board of supervision, for the purpose of considering
the proposed combination ; and iu every case where the
parochial boards of two or more such parishes shall re-
solve that it is expedient and proper that such parishes
shall be combined for all purposes connected with the
management of the poor, and the administration of the
laws relating to their relief, and for the purpose of rais-
ing the necessary funds for the relief and support of the
poor (and also for the purpose of settlement); and where
it shall be established to the satisfaction of the board of
supervision that it is expedient and proper that such
parishes shall be so combined, it shall be lawful for the
said board of supervision to resolve and declare that such
p irishes shall thenceforward be combined for the pur-
poses aforesaid, and shall be considered as one parish, so
far as rogartls the support and management of the pour,
and all matters connected therewith ; and all expendi-
ture in respect to the poor belonging to such combination
of parishes shall be deemed and held to be the common
expenditure of such combination of parishes, and be
charged upon and paid out of the common and general
fund to be raised for the relief of the poor over the whole
of such parishes."
Sir JAMES GRAHAM considered that they ought
to obtain the opinion of the Committee on the 67th
clause, before they adopted the proposition of the Noble

Lord.
Lord DUNCAN called the attention of the Go-
vernment to the 36th clause of the Bill.
Mr. HASTIE thought the clause under discussion the
best in the Bill, because it compelled landowners to con-
tribute somewhat to the support of the poor—a duty
which, under the former system, they were somewhat
apt to forget.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that, seeing the House
was rather opposed to the clause, he should postpone it
for the present.
After a few words from Mr. HASTIE, the clause was
postponed.
On clause 17 being ut,
lir, FOX MA,ULI objected to the incorporating
TR,iinburgb, wsi bir 50 doing, an inustioe was

Leith with Ad......

done to the former borough. He should divide upon
the clause.
After a few words in reply from the LORD AD-
VOCATE, •
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division
took place, and the clause was agreed to.
On clause 18 being proposed,
Mr. F. MAULE moved that all the words from the
words " kirk sessions" down to the words " boards" be
omitted.
Mr. BOUVERIE supported the amendment.
Mr. LOCKHART opposed it.
A short discussion then took place ; after which,
strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment 3O
Against it
Majority for the clause • —34
Clauses 19, 20, 21, and 22, were then agreed to.
When clause 23 was read,
Mr. F. SCOTT proposed as an amendment, " that
after the word 'assessment,' the words or in which such
funds shall have been provided by legal assessment for
thirty consecutive years immediately prior to the Act,'
should be inserted." He took the opportunity also of
stating that there was as much chance of maladminis-
tration with this Bill as there was in the present state of
the law. No case in his opinion had been made out for
the proposed alterations.
The LORD ADVOCATE said that, heretofore, those
who held land or houses, and who were assessed, but
were not heritors, were not represented, nor could take
share in the election of those who represented them ;
but the principle recognised in the present measure was,
that those who were assessed, whether they were heri-
tors or not, should be represented.—(Hear.)
Mr. F. M ABLE was glad to hear that announcement,
for he quite concurred with the Lord Advocate that all
who were assessed, whether they were heritors or not,
should have a share in the representation.
Mr. ELLICE, jun., feared that the numbers in parishes
who were not heritors were so great as to materially
embarrass the proceedings.
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, and 31 were also made
part of the Bill.
On clause 32 being read,
The LORD ADVOCATE, in answer to a question
from Mr. Bouverie, said he thought it better to put on
the local board the responsibility of supervision.
The clause was then agreed to, as was also clause 33.
Clause 34 was then agreed to.
On clause 35 being put,
Mr. WATSON moved that the Chairman report pro-
gress.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM denounced, and Lord HOWICK
advocated this course, which being put from the chair,
was adopted.
PAROCHIAL SETTLEMEN I' BILL.
On the question that the other orders of the day be
proceeded with, the second reading of the Parochial Settle •
ment Bill, the committal of the Commons Inclosure and
Lunatic Asylum Bills, and the second reading of the Con-
stables Public Works (Ireland) Bill were postponed till
this day.
MERCHANT SEAMEN'S FUND BILL.
This Bill was ordered to be reported on Tuesday next,
and the Committee on the Merchant Seamen's Bill was
deferred till the same day.
COAL TRADE (PORT OF LONDON) BILL.
This Bill was ordered to be committed on Monday next.
FIELD GARDENS BILL.
The report was brought up and agreed to.
FOREIGN LOTTERIES BILL.
The report was brought up and received.
SMALL DEBTS BILL (No. 2.)
This Bill was read a second time.
COLLEGES (IRELAND) BILL.
The Committee on this Bill was postponed un
Monday.

DRAINAGE (IRELAND.)
Sir T. FREMANTLE obtained leave to bring in a
Bill to amend the Bill of 1841, respecting drainage in
Ireland.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at one o'Clock.

COURT CIRCULAR.
His Majesty the King of the Belgians held a Diplo
matic Levee yesterday afternoon, at Buckingham
Palace.
The Members of the Diplomatic Corps arrived at the
Palace at one o'clock and were ushered into the Library.
There were present—Count de St. Aulaire, the French
Ambassador ; Count de Jarnac, First Secretary ; Count
Louis de Noailles, Secretary ; Baron de Talleyrand,
Attache ; and Mr. George de Rabaudy, Chancellor of
the Embassy ; Count Dietrichstein, Austrian Ambas-
sador, and Baron Koller, First Secretary of the E2l-
- ; Sarem Effendi, Ottoman Ambassador, and Mons.
Agop, Secretary, Interpreter of the Embassy ; Mons.
Dedel, the Foreign Minister, and Mr. Stratenus, First
Secretary of the Legation ; Count de Yollon, the Sar-
dinian Minister; M. Fortique, the Venezuelan Minister;
Prince Castelcicala, Sicilian Minister ; Count de
Kielmannsegge, the Hanoverian Minister ; the Chevalier
Bunsen, the Prussian Minister; and Baron Thile, Secre-
tary of Legation ; Le Commandeur Marquis Lisboa,
Brazillian Minister ; Mr. Everett, United States Mi-
nister ; Count de Reventlow, the Danish Minister ;
and Mr. de Brelke, Secretary of Legation ; Mr. Murphy,
Mexican Minister ; Le Due de Sotomayor, Spanish
Minister ; and Le Chevalier de Pedrorena, Second
Secretary of Legation. Baron de Gersilorff, Saxon Mi-
nister ; Mr. Colquhoun, Diplomatic agent for the Hanse
Towns ; Mr. musquera, New clia....as Cho.-so
d'Affaires ; Baron de Rehausen, Swedish Charge
d'Affaires ; and Mr. Ashbel Smith, Charge d'Affaires
of Texas.
Their Majesties the King and Queen of the Belgians
entered the library soon after one o'clock, attended by
the Baroness d'Hooghvorst, Dame d'Honneur, and
Major A. d'Hanins de Moerkerke, Officers d'Ordon-
nance. M. Van de Weyer, her Majesty's Representative
at the British Court, then presented the Members of the
Diplomatic Corps to their Majesties. After the reception
their Excellencies retired.
His Excellency M. Van de Weyer was attended by
Mr. Charles Drouet, Secretary of Legation, and Mr.
Charles Castellain, Vice-Consul of Belgium.
The Queen and Prince Albert, and their Majesties
the King and Queen of the Belgians, went yesterday
afternoon to Ealing Park, to honour Mr. and Mrs. Law-
rence with a visit. The Viscountess Jocelyn, Baroness
d'Hooghvorst, Colonel Buckley, and Colonel Bouverie,
were in waiting on the Royal party.
Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales, the
Princess Royal, and the Princess Alice, accompanied by
the Dowager Lady Lyttelton, were. taken an airing yes-
terday in an open carriage and four. His Royal high-
ness Prince Alfred was taken an airing in.the royal
gardens yesterday.
The Hon. Eleanor Stanley, and the Hon. Caroline M.
Dawson have succeeded the Hon. Misses Paget and
Liddell as the Maids of Honour in Waiting to her Ma-
jesty.
The Queen had a dinner party yesterday at Buck-
ingham Palace. The company included their Majesties
the King and Queen of the Belgians, his Royal High-
ness Prince George, Count St. Aulaire, the French Am-
bassador; M. Van de Weyer, the Belgian Minister; the
Duke and Duchess of Buccleuch, the Marquis and Mar-
chioness of Westminster, Lady ElizabethiGrosvenor, the
Marquis of Granby, Viscountess Jocelyn, Baroness
d'Hooghvorst, Lord and Lady Glenlyon, Colonel the
Right lion. G. L. Dawson Darner, the Right Hon. IL
Lytton Bulwer, and Major de Moerkerke.
The band of the Royal Horse Guards were in attend-
ance during dinner.
Her Majesty had afterwards an evening party. The
company consisted of their Serene Highnesses Prince Ed-
and and Prince Herrmann of Saxe Weimar, Madame
Van de Weyer, -the Duchess of Sutherland, and
Lady Caroline Leveson Gower, the Duchess and Made-
moiselle de Coigny, the Marquis and Marchioness of
Exeter, Earl and Countess Delawarr, and Lady Mary
Sackville West, Captain the Hon. Mortimer Sackville
West, the Earl and Countess of Jersey and the Ladies
Clementina and Adela Villiers, the Hon. Francis Vil-
liers, the Earl and Countess of Shelburne, the Countess
of Verularn and Lady Jane Grimston, Viscount Seaham,
Lord Leveson, Lord and Lady Charles Wellesley. Hon.
Mr 4. George Dawson Darner and Miss Dawson Darner,
Mr. George Edward and the Hon. Mrs. Anson, Hon.
James P. Murray, Captain Francis Seymour, and Capt.
W. Baillie Hamilton.
His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, accom-
panied by the Princess Mary, visited the Gardens in the
Regent's Park. yesterday.
Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge took a
drive to Kew yesterday, returning to town in the after-
noon.
Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Gloucester visited
the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge yesterday, at Cam-
bridge House.
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge honoured the
Italian Opera with, their presence last evening.
The Attorney-General for Ireland had an interview
with Sir Robert Peel yesterday.
Mr. Dean, Chairman of the Customs, had an inter-
view with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday at
his official residence in Downing-street.
Sir Edward Disbrow had an interview with the Earl
of Dalhousie yesterday at the office of the Board of
Trade.

DRURY-LANE THEATRE.
This establishment closed last night for the season,
when Mr. Bunn delivered the following address :
" Ladies and Gentlemen,--I have the houour of ap-
peari❑g before you, on this occasion, with no other sanc-
tion than that of custom, to return you my acknow-
ledgements for the patronage you have been pleased to
b, stow upon our exertions.
" The season now closing, one of the longest ever
known in this theatre, has been beset with no ordinary
difficulties. My old acquaintance, and former rival, Co-
vent-garden Theatre, has opposed us with every variety
of allurement, from a promenade concert to a provincial
bazar. Most duly principal performers have been ill
for a considerable portion of our time, and the elements
have been sadly unpropitious yet, with all these draw-
backs, it has been made manifest that the class of enter-
tainment submitted to your approbation has been the
preferable one ; for, under your generous protection, I
have brought another s limn to a favourable issue.
" I never presume to enter upon that now hacknied
question of legitimate or illegitimate performances. I
have but one object in view, and that is to please the
public; and when I call to mind (with no common
degree of satisfaction) that portions of all our per-
formances are to be found upon the pianofortes of every
drawing-room in the empire, I can affird to smile at the
malevolence of those who affect to be disappointed.
" I take leave to inform you that I shall re-open this
theatre, with every degree of attraction I can procure, at
the end of next September, and all which now remains
for me to do is to thank you most cordially for that
liberality which has enabled me to remunerate the many
eminent at tistes who have had the honoqr of appearin6
beforil