The Sun.
London, England, 1819-06-03 00:00:00

l'ot the charge of the ariloance Omice.:n freland.. 101,008
,r Ur the ali,,WailCeS to sa,o•ranimarial iitlicer., and
wid("cs of ‘dficers to the Orilnan,•o De-
partment in Ireland...-
FINANCE.
The CHAtscarLop, Eicit Fox"? rt had a pro-
Position to sulmsii tit t .e C•itmitirce relative to
the Unfunded Debt 11:, the. ell'ered two a briet
eXplanitiou of err' ain transactions between the
Batiks of Eit,4laiol and I. elshi, and conchided by
snovine for a grant or 8 595 6001 to pity off Ex'
chequer Bilis or the year 1819, outstanding and
Unprovid,tl for
Mr. (7all.rtFet.t.. did not wish to create a discus-
sion on the pri...etit occa4ion ; hut as they were
now 0•, the use ot a new 1,4811, he would entreat
the Right Hon, Gentleman, and lie soild implore
the Hoto.e looh at the acciiiiist rut the
'Pond, which he had caused «i be laid before the
llott•e, and .0 tit4i I; what IN (1111t1 :lave been the etfeet
°I applying It in the diminution of the test four luaus
that were lalSttl. BV now produced, it
'i DroVell, that had his suggestion been acted
/11100 when the last four lotus were raised, the
public sso, Id have been greatly benefi'ed. The tour
lasi loans he he ore--curie of '27 .1)0(11000!•
tiliSett 1813.4111 t. o 22,000,0001 , tai•ed
i"Novestiher in lie •ame year we ot 24,000,0001,,
Ifliseci in tl•ie be:jutting IRI-1 • . f mie to the
enormous amowit 36,Q00,0001., rat-ed iii the
year 1815. It with respect to these that course
had been pursued which had felt it his duty to
recolninen,:_r he oftet —the pi act Ica! etfec , would
Irate hen a saving to the Commissioners tot
the recitic•iiitt of the Na *mod! I)...ht—that was, in
het, a saving to the Country of no less than
6.000,0001 which w have produced au an-
nuity ot '268 0(101. a stunt larger than that raised by
that nios, i jnrions and abominable of all taxes—
the Lottery. That tax then might have br eu
,pared, and au annuity purchased, that %void,'
have sated the Country in perpetni'y the stint lie
b4d mentioned, They were now about to oego-
Ciire , loan ,It ,vas- riostoured, a loan to the
‘trioiitit of ,bir.y millions This tumour might
bt ii,„„r„el. But siipposi,o; what he had beard
tut,, right, and 'hat the load was to he thirty
roillions, let the House suss if the lti;:ht Hon Gen-
tlenian ought to Lo for it ro the Contractors,
tince the effect of his noirt:: Si) woul.l be to make
them' continuo- B,..lainst him and igainst t. a COllll.
sitY• IVO ,Id they Sail •1i1)11 this, 01. 'V(1111(1
they di ..et the Itight Hon. G. ntletnau to ap dy the
.111 king Fivoi,or ally,' 4it it in (I.lllll,ititiO of the
1041) to he raised tor .lie sersice of the present
'Year ? 11, wklie,i ihe House to 'Like thi• into their
11'"41 serious consideration lie would now men•
ti"o a rumour tl.at t,e had heard that day, out
rhteh I.e must regard as 8 cal it:ny the Righ!
'lie
Gentleman, ',bid', he cold(' not believe till
I",e had heard i. front his °xi) lips, namely—that
rte ha.t cotonin,iicated to s,nise of the (;outractors
the ani•uoit t•t the loan he meant to raise, and to
tired) 41111 V. Was it necessary for him to state,
11.111 it th.. Chancellor sit the Escliequir had done
this, he load elven t • 'nose colitr.scTors a most
enormous. adsantaLe Was the ditty of the Right
(4,11,1,.,,,,„ to the p. blic, and to the Stock-
Indoet, it he welt pi epa« d to make such a state•
Ricer H indivuals, to have made it publicly in
v
'"l'3 place on Tlitirsdiy last. He could not believe
tiin noi,o,ir to ieh he halt aWoled had -my
tottnilvion In .act ; lie held it to be a calumny,
and it „..„ now for :lie Right Hon Gentleman to
blue it reinia,ion.
'file CHANCELLOR of ExcHEQuan, with
I;..z,.PPect t,. th, fits, °pie fondled nil by the Hon.
''''n'll-111011,11,oi.glit the lion G•inletnati had no
tight to ,Nirc. t he House shoidd be o• his way of
thinking 011111 hart' bcrrl better for
tlle covistie had the route lie recommended
ot-en tiiken, rested mi the 70SSIDD0t1 u, that it the
F
8, iihk 11:4 unit lo t' ot been applied in the way in
he would hate appind into the diminution
Of the LI 1115, that the it nusiod..r ot them would
have been ii!oculied on the I. rats on which they
1"1•e actirall obtained. \l'hat the act was he I
c°"l't hot snv, but this lie could declare, that
those conceined in the Loans asserted the con•
tra''Y• Ile therttnre called tipun the House
not to vie..v the position rut the Honourable Gen-
tleman as established, till it was suppotted by
further proof,' When money was to be taked, t,fs
ectuttitinTetion 11411 been made to lily persoo
that eonld del), ire the public of the toll belief-it
111' y ht tXlit et in negotiating the loan One
"v'to,ge, thud it was a vet y impottant one, was
Pt'ss ,st,(l by the Treasury. It had always the
Po" et of protecting the country, and of the pre-
/14:1°6"e the contiaerors trouts taking ally trdair
I:u"mage, and this power was exetted, when it
setut that t.olv imposition Was RH uDipted.---
tati"g this, he had, in a great measure, an-
liweted the question which had been put to him
;)ti the sithjeri ot the rumour alluded «s by the
LC 5
I°"1 Gei.l .1) From the situation in %%hid)
kith °"(1) he could not help having conversations
;tr "'any persons on the finances of the coin).
y ; there had, however, been no secret or pri-
vate communication mole to any of ilia contrac-
"43, that could give them au undue advantage
over mhers or over the public.
Alt% it ICARDO had heard a statement which set
forth, w het het cots vet Iv or not he could riot say,
all the particulars of the intended loan, the sum
t° be borrowed, and the days on which the seve-
ral' payments were to be made. These be under-
atood haul been made known to others by the
Chancellor of the Excliever, but not to hint, or
10 any one with whom he was connected. The
usual
course had been for the Chancellor of the
txchequer to give notice to the parties likely to
subscribe to the loan, that on such a day lie would
elspect them, and then when they attended him,
t° unfold his plan to them. To communicate his
Intentions to one party alone, wits to give that
patty ts great and manifest advantage over all the
7;1.15. Whether such a communication had been
ade he ltd not know; but the rumour was so
goe.neral, that be could
not doubt the tact of some
e
tontunicatioti front the Right HOD. Gentleman
l'ay.mg been made.
bk:itl'hiehl,:itilltvceLLost of the EXCHEQUER had stated
haveost'autleYdit)noillaitei;laorthietricilisveittsiouani. which. lie
An.lr.l(3,ll:lth.r);e:,EhLti had thought, from the high opi-
nion
Gentleman,
entertained of the Right Ho-
liva';'.4.l"-tni,.usst.th Leman, that the rumour he had
lave been a calumny• Now he found
the ittlit ilt.inciustable GeUtleinan admitted

. . 12,000

in terms, that he had made antre. %o litt'll►lC~tlt%lt
on the subject of the loan. He bad stated to one
or two individuals that he wished to raise the sum
30,000,0001. He (Mr. Grcnfell) was now sa-
tislicd he did not Meal) to apply any lout of the
Sinking Fund in diminution of the loan for die
service of the present year. The Right Lion.
Gentleman had told the House that the Treasury
hail in its own hands the power of protectiug it-
self, it they saw any attempt to impose unfair
'ernes, He did not say that they had not this
power, but what he said ,vas this—be wished them
to use it. In consequence of their not doing
this, and availing themselves of the Sinking Fund
to diminish the Lunn,they drove the Contrac-
tors to combine against them. What single Con-
tractor could gi apple with a loan of 30,000,0001 ?
Diminish it to 15.0001. and many persons would
offer with whom it might be oegociuted. 'to
those with whom the Right Hon. Gentleman had
communicated on the present occasion, a most
unfair advantage had been given. That that had
beet, done, was tacitly admitted by the Chancellor
of the Exchequer. Would he now state to the
['oldie what lie had stated to the Contractors ?
What reason, lie should %vial) to know, had the
Right Hon. Gentleman for taking such a course ?
lie was sorry, from what now transpired, to find
that he had entertained a mote favourable opinion
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer than be de-
served, for he was now satisfied that the rumours
of the morning, which he had regarded as calum-
nies, were not without foundation.

The CH INCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was per-
fectly ready to state to the House all that he had
staled to any individual. lie had certainly been
desirous of learning from those with whom he
had conversed what were their opinions on the
subject, and had asked whether they thought it
would be better fur the Country that one large
to n should Le raised, so that none should be ne-
cessary next year, or that is small loan should be
raised for the svrviee of the present year only, or
‘yhether any and what part of the Sinking Fund
should be applied in diminution of the loan, in
the way recommended by the Hon, Gentleman.
Mr. liatiNET thought, if the Right Hon. Gen-
tICIUM committed himself by conanunicating
ins intent tons respecting the loan to any private
individuals, the House ought to interfere to pre-
vent him front raising that loan.
Time CHANCELLOR of tue ExcnEturEtt said, he
had not so communicated his intentions to any
One. ,

Lord MILTON Conceived, thAt that which the
Chancellor of the Exchequer admitted in terms
that he had done, by the questions he had pot,
went to deptive the country of an advantage it
ought to have enjoyed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
one object he had in view was, to learn which
plan those he had conversed with thought the
be %t

Mr. BARNARD remarked, the state of the Con-
sol3 alremly evinced preparations to have been
nimie for the Lean.

Mr. GavNyyt.t. could not blame the Right Hon.
Gentleman lt wishing to know the senthnents
of those with :vhoni he had conversed, but he
hoped that he would not suffer tl►ent to influence
his conduct. If he did so, he would give up his
duty to them. If he asked them whether a large
or small Loan 'would he preferable, they would
say that a large one ►could be better f►►r the
country, ntean►ng thereby that it would he better
for Oietn,elve.—The Resolution was agreed to.
The CIiANCELLon of tie EXCHERUER moved a
grant of 3,000,0001. to cover Exchequer Bills out-
standing for 1818.
GRENFELL wished to know, as "some inti-
mit ion bad been given, that. the Bank, from pub-
lic spirit, would decline taking interest on these
bills, it no I,,terest were to be paid on them.

Tie CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER, said no
payment had yet been. made. The Honourable
Gentleman was as competent as himself to judge
whether it was likely that the Bank would de-
cline the interest referred to.
Sir J. NEWPORT wished to know if these were
the bills that wete retained by the Bank at a higher
rate or interest than was paid on other Exche-
quer Bills. He thought this subject ought to
have been brought before the House by the Chan-
cell-pr of the Exchetiner.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
present were not the bills alluded to. They had
been referred to the consideration of the Secret
Committee on the affairs of the Bank.

Sir J. NewFowl' wao Sal itfled with their being
so referred to the Committee, but he thought the
tionse would know ;low to judge of the liberality
of the Bank, from the circumstance of their, not
being contvut to take the same interest that was
receive:; by all the other members of the com-

munity.
The Resol►itions wris then agreed to.---The fol-
lowing sums were tl►en voted :

For Irish Exchequer Bills
For Treasury Bills issued for the service of Ire-
land
Bcin; the hundredth part of 48,000,0001. in Ex-
chequer Bills authorired in the last Session to
he charged on certain funds, with a view to
their being paid ofl by instalments
Towards defraying the expences of the British
IN'luscum .

4,400,000

430,000

10,015

The House then resumed, and the Report was
ordered to be received to-morrow.

THE BUDGET.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to
give a notice, wishing to afford a more extended
opportunity for discussing the measures he should
shortly have to propose; than was usually offered
when the Budget carne before the House, he would
to-morrow, in order to raise such debate, move
that the House should go into a Committee of the
whole House, to which Committee, he would refer
the first Report of the Committee on the Revenue
and Expenditure of the Country. He would Oleo
submit to the Committee the Resolutions he hail
to bring forward, with an understanding that the
debate should be taken on them on Alondtsy.

GRENFELL inquired if the Chancellor of the
Exchequer muant to bring his Budget statement
on that day 2
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER %vas un-
derstood to say he did.
Mr. TzetiNEy begged to inquire, if the plan
the /tight lieu. Gentlemau thettut to sub-

niit to the House tentlecl to equalize the Revenue
and Expenditure ok_the Couutry ?
The CHANCEL-LOH Of the EXCILEO.UER replied
in the affittnative. •

ASSESSED TAXES.

The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER gave no-
tice, that be would, to-morrow, move that the
House should resolve itself into a Committee on
the Ps.essed Tax Acts, for the purpose, it was
understood, of receiving a poposition fur their
commutation•
COURT OF CHANCERY IN IRELAND.

Mr. C. GRANT rose to move for leave to bring
in a Bill for the better administration of justice in
the Court of Chancery in Ireland. He showed that
the fees had been enormously increased, and that
fictitious attendances had been greatly moltiplied.
Three summonses for parties to attend were sent
as matters of course. The fourth, which was pe-
remptory, was the only one to which it was expect-
ed attention should be paid, yet fees for attend-
ances were charged on each summons for the three
Masters in Chancery, the three Solicitors, and
the six Clezits. So enormously were these con-
structive attendances multiplied, that in one in-
stance it was shown that 1297 attendances were
charged, where not one real attendance could be
proved. The costs were thus increased on the
suitors, and the Masters of Chancery who taxed
them, having an interest in them, were not likely
to tax diem, as they would be taxed by indiffer-
ent persons. The ,Committee that had investigated
this subject had recommended that t wo new Offi-
cers should be appointed to tax bills of costs with
fixed salaries. The Chancellor and the Master of
the Rolls objected to this. They wished the
taxing of the costs to remain with the Masters in
Chancery, but were of opinion this duty ought to
be separated from their other duties, and paid by
a fixed salary. The suggestion of the Chancellor
and the Master of the Rolls he should recommend
in preference to the plan of the Committe, and the
Bill he wished to.bring in was drawn up accord-
ingly. He then described the provisions of the
Bill for appointing Barristers to act instead of the
Commissioners at present employed; as also those
for making a compensation to Masters in Chan-
cery, and the Six Clerks, for the loss they would
sustain under the proposed change of system. The
expeoce of the new arrangement it was proposed
to cover by a moderate duty on bills of costs in
Chancery. He concluded by moving for leave to
bring in the Bill.
Mr. R. MARTIN seconded the motion, but
wished the plan of the Committee adopted in pre-
ference to that of the Chancellor and the Master
of the Rolls.

The Earl of CARHAMPTON disapproved of the
principle adopted with regard to compensation.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT bestowed much praise on
the Commissioners for Inquiry into the Courts of
Justice. The abuses which had been exposed by
their labours wet e of an enormous kind, twiny of
them operati►►g to occasion a complete denial of
justice. It was found that a simple contract
debt of a low amount could not he recovered in
the Irish Court. under an expence of 261. ;
whereas, in the English Courts, the expence of
suing for a debt of the same kind was only about
4or 51. To shopkeepers and traders of the lower
description this abuse was virtually a denial of
justice. In all the offices connected with the Irish
Courts, abuses to a greater or less extent were
discovered ; especially in those connected with
the Cou'rt of Chancery. It had been found that
a fee of above 4001. was demanded for setting
down a cause to be heard-6521. for docketing,
exemplifying, and enrolling a decree, and 1621. for
registering it.
Mr. L. FOSTER said, lie had the honour of hav-
ing been one of the Commissioners of Inquiry.
The reform which had been made in consequence
of the recommendation of the Commissioners
were not made hastily, but on mature considera-
tion, and after consulting alt persons who had
most knowledge and experience on the subject.
The fee of 1521. for docketing, enrolling, and ex-
emplifying a decree, had been reduced to about
701. by assimilating the forms and charges to
those in England. Most of the offices connected
with the Court of Chancery were obtained by
purchase. This practice had even been recog-
nized in several Acts of the Irish Parliament ; but
it was now abolished. There was hardly ever any
Bill introduced into the House mo►e likely to ad-
vance the cause of justice than the present.
Mr. V. BLatE wished that time should be given
to consider this 1311, and, with that view, recom-
mended that the Bill should now be printed, and
allowed to stand over to the next Session. With
respect to the enormous amount of the fees, he
observed, that more than three-fourths of the
I amount went to Government.

Sir J. NEWPORT explained.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD hoped that the Honse
would not accede to the wish of the lion. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Blake) and that they would not agree
to postpone the Bill. The truth was, that the
Lord Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls in
Ireland approved of this Bill.
Mr. BLAKE explained.
The motion WAS then agreed to, and leave given

to bring in the Bill.
Mr. C. GRANT then moved for leave to brine
in a Bill for the better regulation of the Court of
Exchequer Chamber in Ireland. After the dis-
'cussion which had just taken place, he did not
think it necessary to trouble the House with any
further observations.

After a few words from Sir J. NEWPOUT Rnd
Mr. L. FosTatt, the motion was agreed to, and
leave given to bring in the bill.
WISH BANK RESTRICTION.

Mr. C. WANT moved that the House resolve
itself into a Cotntuittee•on the Act for Restrict-
ing the Cash Payments of the Bank of Ireland,
for the purpose of moving similar Resolutions to
those which had been adopted with respect to the
Bank of England.
The House then resolved itself into a Commit-
tee, and Mr. C. GRANT moved the Resolutions.
After a few words from Sir H. Parnell and Sir
J. Newport, the Resolutions were agreed to, and
the Report ordered to be received to-morrow.
MR. BARON 11PCLELLAND.

Mr. MARTIN rose and said, he assured t lie House
ihat he was aware of the awfulness of the duty
he undertook : he was aware that it was impera-
Live QU HOUbe tG Vißit its Liilliest displea-