The Sun.
London, England, 1844-01-26 00:00:00

IRELAND.

THE STATE TRIALS.
(NINTH DAY.)
(FROM OUR OWN REPORTERS.)
DUBLIN, WEDNF.SDAY, .TAN. 24.
COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH.
THE QUEEN V. DANIEL. O'CONNELL AND OTHERS.
(The examination of James Healy, continued from our
Third Edition of Last Yght.)
Don't they usually take advantage of these large
meetings, and hover about the precincts of them, to sell
these ballads ?—I should think so. -

They hover about the outskirts of a meetings, and en-
deavour to retail these things for profit ? Every
place where they think they can make sale of them.
And I believe at assizes, while the judges, are sitting
in the criminal courts, these ballad-singers are generally
to be found in the vicinity of the courts ?—I have seen
them there.
With respect to the persons that had on their hats the words
‘' O'Connell's Police,' I ask you as a fair and honest man,
upon your oath, did not those people contribute to the pre-
servation of tt.e peace and order ?—Saw them exert themselves.
That is no answer—Did they clear the platform?—They
may have intended to keep the platform clear, and to keep
order about it; heard a man named Walsh give instructions to
the people to keep order and quietness about the platform and
pavilion.
Were they peeled wands they had in their hands ?—The
3ticks they had were smooth, and very slight.
They were not pieces of timber?—They were pieces of
timber.
Oh ! they were of course made of timber, but they were
not what you called on your direct examination pieces of timber.
1 he Attorney-Genersl—That was not what he said.
Mr. APDonough—l beg your pardon, I insist I am right; he
ealled them pieces of timber, and then went on; but it is of
no consequence.
Wei ,ou here on the entr

of George the Fourth into

re y
Dublin ?—I was not.
Yuu wero at the 11Iullaglimast dinner ?—I was, but not all
the time.

One of the mottoes, you say, was, " No Soxon—(Laugh-
ter) butchery shall give blood-gout for a repast ?—( Loud
laughter. )—Yes .
There was something better for ropast on that occasion, I
believe ?--Some appeared not to be satisfied ; the dinner
appeared to be rather short.
You say another motto was—" Ireland dragged at the tail
of another nation."—That was the purport.
Mr. 11I'Donough—A good heavy load she would have, would
she not?
Mr. O'Connell—And a strong tail.---(Laughter.)
Witness—There was a private carriage in the procession.
Did you take down all tke mottoes?-- I did not.
Why did you not take them down ?—Because I thought it
was no consequence.

present to distinguish the cards distributed at the Asso-
ciation from those distributed at the meeting. Suppose the
documents were not printed by the order or with the know-
ledge of the Association. then it was competent for the
"traversers to rebut the evidence, aad produce the printer Rho
slid print them, and let him say for whom they were executed.
He contended that the evidence could not be refused, as it was
given as part of the 7es pesta of the case, and that the docu-
ments were circulated by the Association. The documents
were circulated by the Association at the meeting, because the
No hundred and fifty thousand persons who composed it could
not hear all that was said by the speakers. He, therefore,
under all the circumstances, submitted that the document must
be used in evidence, and let the jury set what value they might
on it afterwards.

The Chief Justice was of opinion that the document should
beadmitted on evidence, but he did not say what effect it would
have as evidence. At the same time, he thought it ought to
be laid before the jury, and let it form a part of the case
on which they were ultimately to give their judgment. Mr
Moore and Mr. Monahan objected to the admissibility of the
document on different grounds; but he would not say they did
agree on both grounds of objection. However, it was to Mr.
Monahan's argument he would at present direct his observations
and consideration. Mr. Monahan said it could not be proved
that the document was circulated with the consent of the par-
ties, or with the views of those who called the meethig, and,
therefore, it could not be admitted as evidence. Let him see
how the case case stands ; he supposed that nobody would aleny
that evidence was alrezdy before the Court and jury of the
existence of the Repeal Association, which consisted of a
great body of persons, who had assembled from time to
time, and held large meetings ; nobody would deny that. It
could not be denied that the leaders of that Association were
in the habit of knowing where such meetings were held,
and that they were called by the authority of the Asso-
ciation, of which the several traversers were proved to be
members. In furtherance of the objects of the Association,
and for the purposes of those meetings, the practice wa,,
for some time before the meetings, to publish the
fact. It was deemed advisab'e, before the meeting at
Mullaghmast, to have a great monster meeting, or provin•
cial - 'eting, or, as it w- ialled he Le' ' filar-''

meeting, or, as it was c, t, !luster Declaration
for Repeal, and this was done, and the meeting was called by
placard to assemble on the Ist of October, at Mullaglnnaht,
and that place was accordingly appointed as the scene of that,

great monster meeting, and it should be recollected the plan
was so appointed before the Ist of October, the day on which
the meeting was held. It was in evidence that instructions
were given to Air. Brown, the printer of the Association, by
the secretary of the Association, to print and publish a nuin
ber of advertisements calling that meeting, and that auch in-
structions were complied with, and the advertisement was cir-
culated. That placard called a meeting of the province of
Leinster to assemble at Mullaglimast on the Ist of October,
and Mullaghmast was the place named by the parties call-
ing the meeting. The people called on to attend that
meeting got a very significant hint of what they were caleil
together for, as it was stated at the foot of the advertise-
ment, " Remember Mullaghmast." That was to bring the
matter to their recollection. They had it in evidence

Perfectly harmless?--Quite so. that Mr. O'Connell attended at the meeting, and ex-
Not material ?—Just so. plained very fully why the scene of the meeting was chosen
Therefore you did not take them ?—Just so. at Mullaghmast. Mr. O'Connell made two speeches—One
The witness then left the fable. in the morning, and one in the evening, at the banquet.
The Attorney-General called on the Clerk of the Crown to Mr. Barrett, another of the traversers, was there, and also
read the ballad that was circulated at Mullaghmast. made a speech, and both the traversers stated that Mullagh-
Mr. Moore said the evidence of the last witness, as he un- mast was chosen for the meeting for a particular purpose,
derstood it, was this, that there were papers distributed or sold and that it was done firmly and deliberately, and chosen
in the course of the meeting ; that he himself purchased one before hand. It should Hot be forgotten again that
which he had lost ; but he got the docement in question from the people were called on to remember Mullaghnrast.
another policeman, with a mark upon it. Under those circus's- What was Mr. O'Connell's object its fixing on Illullagh-
stances he did net consider that document admissible. mast as the place for the meeting, but to bring to the re-
The Solicitor-General said the witness saw the other police- nrembrance, and perhaps to the f clings of those assent-
man put a mark upon it. bled, the scenes alleged to have taken place there in former
The Chief Justice said Mr. Moore was not acquainted with times ? Whether that was likely to produce excitement or
the entire of the witness's evidence. not he did not say ; but one of the reasons given by Mr.
Mr. Moire said he had been out of Court during a part of it. O'Connell himself for assembling there was to bring to the
Mr. M'Donough said they had an additional objection. recollection of the meeting the treachery and cruelty of the
They contended upon the evidence that that document was Saxon race, atal the want of safety there was in dealing ss jib
net receivable. Very great latitude had been allowed in them. The people then were invited to come to Mullaghmast
cases of conspiracy where it was fair to he inferred that the as a provincial meeting, and consequently a very great one, arid
distribution of the document was in furtherance of the common ttse invitation or summons to them was given expressly by the
object, and by some of the conspirators; but he (Mr. M'Donough) Association through their officer and secretary, Mr. Ray, and
had never heard, and he apprehended there was no authority the cards were printed by Mr. Brown, the printer to the Asso-
to show, that where if was proved, as in this case, that in this ciation. Now, where Mr. O'Connell and the Association took
vast and peaceable assemblage, persons either hovered about the upon themselves to collect the people together, in such crowds,
skirts of the meeting, or mingled with the crowd for the purpose to the amount of 250,000, it was worthy of consideration to
of selling badads ; persons who were proved to be in the habit of say whether it was not an illegal act. He would not say
watching large meetings toget an opportunity of selling their bal- whether it was or was not, but he said that those who
lads or songs,—it would he unjust in the last degree to inculpate ventured to collect the meeting, must abide the consequences
those who took no part in their sale, and never sanctioned of their own act as to what was done connected with the meet-
their being sold or distributed. There was not the remotest ing. There were 250,000 persons assembled together at 111u1-
connexion between any of the traversers, or the parties who laghmast. The first thing done was the handing about a paper
convened that meeting, or whe held that meeting, and the purporting to be a full and true accountof the dreadful slaughter
ballad sellers, and the witness upon his examination admitted or murder at Mullaghmast on the bodies of four hundred
that the people paid snore attention to the speeches of Mr. Roman Catholics. Whether this was given away as a donation,
O'Connell and the other gentlemen than to the ballads. Those or whether it was sold, did not appear to him to be of touch
ballads were distributed by sale amongst the people, not as the consequence. Their being circulated and distributed over the
act of the persons connected with that meeting, and he would field was a necessary consequence of the assembling of the
submit that, under the circumstances, the document in ques- people at the place to hear and receive a history of what had oe-
tion was not admissible. curred before Mr. O'Connell addressed them on the subject.
The Attorney-General said there was no proof that ballads He could not pass ever the fact that Mr. O'Connell, in the
of that description were in the-habit of being sold at large two speeches which he made, and Mr. Barrett, in the one
assemblies. which he made, drew a picture of what had occurred at Mul-
Mr. M'Donough contended that the witness on cross-exami- laghmast similar to the one presented for sale to the people.
nation alluded to a temperance meeting consisting of 300,000 They all concurred in their representations of what took place
persons, and admitted that ballad singers were there distribute three hundred years before, by those who were of Saxon con-
ing their ballads. nexion—the treachery and cruelty they practised, and that
The Attorney-General said there was no evidence of ballads they could never be trusted again. So far, therefore, from
Such as the one in question being sold at that temperance being unconnected with the professed object of the meeting,
meeting. it seemed to him to be intimately connected wills it ; and it
Mr. M'Donough admitted that that portion of the evi- would be impossible to call the attention of the jury from the
deuce did not include this particular document. It was fact that 2510,000 persons were assembled together by adver-
not for him to say what evidence would be adduced by the tisement ; and it would be for them to say whether the history
traversers, in reference to that ballad ; but they had the of the slaughter or murder said to have taken place was net
evidence of Mr. Brown, the printer, the authorised agent of connected with that meeting. He had not, therefore, the
the Association, to show that he never printed anything of the slightest doubt that the objection to the evidence ought not
kind, and that such a document was never put into his hands. to be allowed, and that the document was admissible in evidence.
Besides, they had in evidence that these ballads were sold ; ar.d, Mr. Justice Crampton said lie was of the same opinion, that
was it not in accordance with their knowledge of probabilities the evidence was admissible, his reasons for which he should
that, if those ballads were sanctioned by the traversers, they state very briefly. It was admitted on both sides that tire
would have been distributed gratuitously? How monstrous document was one of importance, but whatever the nature or
would it be if, at the vast temperance assemblies sworn to by character of the paper was, it appeared to him it could nut be
the witness, some person in that crowd sold ballads, and that rejected as evidence. With regard to the objection urged
Father Mathew was to be put on his trial for those ballads, and against it, it must be clear the meeting at Mullaghmast was one
tales of ancient history were to be given in evidence against of the overt acts in the indictment, and the acts and declarations
him ? If such a doctrine were admitted it would he in the of all persons who formed that assembly became, therefore, of
power of any designing person to convert a perfectly legal as- importance to consider ; prima facie all persons there be-
sensibly into an illegal one. longed to the meeting, therefore every person Insight disconnect
The Attorney-General quoted the King v. Hard, to show himself from it by evidence. The act and declarations of one be-
that the ballad was admissible in evidence. What was the came the acts and declaration of all, if they were considered to
evidence at present before the Court? They had it proved act in concert, and therefore it was that what was said by one
by Mr. Hughes that Mr. O'Connell at that very meeting at in one part of the field, though it might he a quarter of a
Mallaglimast said that ," he had chosen it (meaning the Rath mile off, became evidence against the other who might be on
of Mullaginnast) for an obvious reason—they were upon the the platform. Herewas an assembly for the purpose of dis- '
precise spot on which English treachery, and false Irish tree- cussing a particular thing, and a paper was distributed by
chery, too, consummated a massacre unequalled in the crimes thousands amongst the assembly, and what upon the face of it
of the world." Ile said, that was a fit place, in the open air, did it purport to be? It drew particular attention to the place
to assert their determination not to be destroyed by treachery ; of meeting. Now let him suppose, as put by the Counsel for
and that while he lived they Lever should. That the meeting the Crown, that some person in a different part of the field
was not held there by accident but by design, and that where read out this paper aloud, would any one contend that it could
his voice was then raised the yell of dispair was once heard not be received in evidence. No doubt it would be so re-
from the victims who had fallin beneath the swords of the ceived. He was of opinion from the beginning that that ob-
Saxons, who delightfully ground their victims to death. That jection was perfectly untenable.
three hundred unarmed men were slaughtered in the mer- Mr. Justice Perrin said that it appeared in evidence that
riment of the banquet, leaving their wives and children to from morning till night (these were the words of the witness)
drop useless tears over them. This (continued the Atter- several persons were engaged in circulating— in crying about
nev- Gen eral) is the eontente of the old Irish history, through the meeting, those documents—that was publicly
which was printed and circulated at Mullaghmast. Mr. stating the substance of them, and no person interfered to pre-
O'Connell could not be heard by 300,000 Men ; but it was vent, or repress, or stop them. lle did not say to what effect
proved that the contents were spoken at tire dinner in the the evidence would be; all he said was, that under those cir-
pavilion. He (the Attorney- General) for that reasons proposed cumstances it was impossible to exclude that evidence. lie
reading it. It had been circulated amongst the hundreds did not mean to say that it would go to affect the Association,
of thousands who could not hear eh. O'Connell, but could or to connect it with them directly, but that was a matter for
read it. The " Voice from the Grave " was also used at the the jury to decide upon ultimately, considering the evidence
Pavilion, aand it was clearly admissible in evidence. A for and against the prosecution.
distinction had been taken that it was inadmissible he- The document was then handed in and read. It purported
cause it had been sold ; but surely it was not because a to give " a full, true, and accurate account'' of the terrible
penny or a half-penny might have been got for it that it was massacre of four hundred Irish Catholics at the Rath-more of
to be rejected. There never was a case where the admission of such Mullaghmast. The first paragraph contained a statement of
evidence was of more importance. It was circulated at a meeting the cruelty committed on the occasion referred to, and pro-
assembled for the purpose of creating discontent and disaffection ceeded to give an extract from Taaffe's History of Ireland,
amongst leer Majesty's subjects. The slaughter committed 100 wherein the massacre was described as occurring during the
years ago, was, for this purpose, revived in the minds of the reign of Queen Mary. Some comments followed, wherein
people by this " Voice from the Grave," combining all these Mary was designated as Bloody Mary. The document eon-
circumstances together, the documents were clearly fit to be eluded by giving a summary of different authorities as to the
given in evidence. He put it in evidence to show the mode date of the massacre ; and the author, having satisfied himself
adopted of circulating such sentiments among the people, and that it occurred during Mary's reign, proceeded to show that
relied as an authority upon the case of the King v. Hunt. lie whether Catholicism or Prote,tantism were triumphant in
concluded by saying, that it was for the Jury to consider how England, Ireland was always treated by English rulers e ith
far Mr. O'Connell and the other traversers were connected equal barbarity and treachery.
with its distribution.
Mr. Whiteside applied to have a copy of this document fur-
Mr. Monahan (for Mr. John O'Connell) said, that the doe- niched him. They wished to have the name of the printer.
trine advanced by the Attorney-General was unsupported by The paper was handed to the Learned Gentleman.
authority. If he recellected the opening statement of the At- The Attorney-General then put in a copy of her Majesty's
torney-General, he said that he had the printer of these docu- speech as evidence, requiring as much of it as related to Ire-
ments, and named as such a person called Hanvey, who lived in land to be read.
Fisliamble-street. He had not, as he did in the case of other Mr. Moore objected to its being produced.
documents, produced the printer to prove that they were got The AttorneyeGeneral was very much surprised at. the °b-
out by the directions of any particular person, or the objects for jection. There had been in the course of these trials several
which they were printed. There was no evidence that they speeches of Mr. O'Connell proved, in which he commented on
were published by any one charged with the conspiracy. The the speech of her Majesty at the prorogation of Parliament,
Attorney-General had not, as in the case of Brown, produced taking sentence by sentence, and he apprehended a document
any person to prove that they emanated from Mr. O'Connell so commented on might be taken in evidence. It was alleged
or the Repeal Association. On the Contrary, it was likely that it was not the speech of her Majesty, but the speech of
that the document was published by this man ( Hanvey) for her Ministers—that it contained language only fit for a fish-
profit that it was iris own act, and not that of any one woman—that it was a Billingsgate speech—and other observe-
charged with the conspiracy. He did not object to the placards tions of an extraordinary character were made respecting it.
being given in evidence, because they were openly and publicly Ile therefore asked, quite as a matter of course, that the Nor-
exhibited at the meetings ; but there was no proof to show tion of the speech so commented on by Mr. O'Connell should
that these papers were exposed in the presence of Mr. O'Connell be put in, it being clearly a matter of evidence.
oi his friends, or that they had any knowledge of their con- The London Gazette of August 25th, and the Dublin Ga-
tents•
lie did not say that it was necessary to prove that the
:etre of August 29th, were then put in, and the portion of her
circulation was the act of Mr. O'Connellor any of the tea- majesty's speech referring to Ireland, and expressing her de-
versers, but it should be proved, that it was done with the know- termination to maintain the Legislative Union between the
or at least adopted by, some one of them. No doubt but countries, were then read.
ledge of,
formerly evidence in cases of this sortwas permitted to an extreme James Irwin, station-house clerk of the Liverpool constales-
; yet they had not, on the other hand, cited any case lary, sworn—lle said he was at Liverpool on the 13th of Oc-
length
similar to the one before the Court. If the circulation was an tuber. He saw placards of a particular description posted in
object with the Association, they would not have charged for various parts of Liverpool. Ile took down one of the placards
it ; a few pence was of no value to them. It had not seen which he produced. It was a copy of the address to all the
proved that the publication was with the knowledge or sanction subjects of the British Crown, containing a statement of the
of the Association, or in furtherance of its objects. The At. grievances of Ireland, and which Mr. O'Connell had wished to
torney-General, when commenting upon it in the presence of have in circulation in all the towns of the empire. The name
the jury, ought to have stated that it was a slaughter committed of Mr. Brown was attached to it as printer.
by Catholics. Mr. Charles Vernon called—Held the situations of Registrar
Mr. O'Connell—l said a slaughter of Catholics by Catholics. of Newspapers in the Stansp.office ;it was in his office that
Solicitor-General—The question: for the Court was, should the declarations made by the proprietors and publishers of
these documents be admitted or rejected. If admitted it newspapers were lodged. The newspapers themselves are also
was open to the traversers to give any explanation lodged there as published. lie had here the declaration of Mr.
about them which they could. He thought they ought to Barrett, as proprietor of the Pilot.—( Declaration produced.)
be admitted upon two distinct grounds. First, they were He had seen Mr. Barrett write, and that was his hand. Had
part of the res gestw, tine character of the meeting, the also the declaration of Charles Gavin Duffy, as proprietor of
transactions there, the circulation of such matter as was con- the Nation. lie was not acquainted with Mr. Duffy. The
tamed in the documents, he would assume bore directly upon declarations was lodged at his office in the r egular way of busi-
the charge in the indictment. That charge was one of en- ness.—(Declaration produced.) Had the declaration of George
tering into a conspiracy to excite animosity amongst her Ma- Atkinson and Dr. John Gray as proprietors of the Freeman's
jesty's subjects ; and the proper means to be used for the sup- ,journal; E. Duffy was the printer. Ile was not acquainted withporting of that charge was to prove the large numbers at these Dr. Gray's writing, but he had seen Mr. Duffy write; it was
meetings, the notices which convened them, the harangues the practice for papers to be sent to his office signed
which were made : and they (the Crown) were then proving by the publisher, as required by Act of Parlia-
what occurred at one of these meetings. Mullaghmast meet- merit. The documents which are now handed to me, are
ing, it should be observed, had been called by advertisement, accurate and authentic copies of the original declarations duly
and it was proved that Mr. Brown, the printer of the signed before Mr. Cooper, the Comptroller and Aecountant-
Association, printed that placard or advertisement, calling General of the stains
.$
Stamp I epartment. They bear the signatures
g respectively of Richard Barrett, John Gray, George Atkin-
the meeting. He did not care whether the placard callin
that meeting was circulated gratuitously or sold for son, Edward Duffy, and Charles Gavin Duffy. The latter
money, as it did not make any material difference for gentleman is registered as the sole proprietor, printer, and pub-
his purpose ; the advertisement calling that meeting was fisher of the Nation newspaper.
part and parcel of the meeting itself, He differed Mr. Smyly—Have you with you at present any copies of the
widely with Mr. Monahan, for it was not necessary Nation, Freeman's Journal, and the Pilot newspapers which
for the Crown to show any authority from the Association were left in your office?—Yes, I have—here they are.—( Wit-
calling that meeting, as the advertisement was sufficient for the ness produced a file of newspapers.)
Crown in that case, and it did not lie in the mouth of the Asso- Ilave you got the Nation of the 10th of June ?—Ycs ; i
ciation to say they are not responsible for the consequences has the signature of Charles Gavin Duffy.
when the meeting did not take place. Had henot prinutfacie Mr. Smyly—Turn to the leading article of that paper.
evidence there that several documents were circulated at the Mr. Whiteside objected to the copy of the newspaper being
meeting, stating the professed objects of that meeting ? put into the witness's hands at the present stage of the pro-
such documents might be circulated by O'Connell's Police, ceedings, lie (counsel) had not had the opportunity of exa-
or by the Repeal Wardens, for all inc knew, before the mining the certified copies of documents which had been
" meetine ; and was it to be said that the thousands of handed in. They had not as yet been read, nor had the hand-
those documents which were circulated at the meeting, writing been proved ; and, under these circumstances, it was
were calculated, without the knowledge of the traversers, manifestly premature to ask any questions relative to the news-
was he to be told that there was not a case of prima facie paper.
evidence to go to the jury, and let them take it as they night ? The Attorney-General—You may have the original docu-
Mr. Monahan asked, why not prove that the document was ments to examine, if you wish, Mr. 'Whiteside.
rioted by wish or authority of the Association ; but he did not The documents were handed to Mr. Whiteside, who having
c ant to prove that, as it was given as part of the res gesta of examined them, said that he considered the evidence on this
tee ease; suppose the Association had circulated their printed branch of the case wholly defective. The declarations pur-
cards— ported to have been signed in the presence of a Mr. Cooper,
Mr. Whiteside—l beg your pardon, there is nothing private the Accountant-General, but not a tittle of evidence had been
out the Association, all is done publicly.
The Solieitior-General said he would use that expression at was a person having full and competent
iatau.llthlr;riCtyo,opienr