The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-30 00:00:00

CONCESSIONS TO THE CATHOLICS.

Lord E. SOMERSET presented a petition from Clifton
and the Seven Hamlets, 'Gloucestershire, against any fur-
ther concessions to the Roman Catholics.

Mr. H. DAVIS presented a similar petition from the
Parishes of St. Augustine and of St. Mary Radcliffe, Bristol.
A number of similar petitions weee also presented.
from four parishes in the county of Cavan, by Mr. H.
Maxwell ; by Mr. H. Smith, from the Archdeaconry of Col-
ebe,iter.; by Sir John Brydges, from Dunmow, Essex ;
by-
Mr. Monte, from two parishes in Wicklow ; and by Lord
George' Somerset, from the Calvinistic Methodists of Beau.
fort.—Ordered to lie of the table, and to be printed.
LOrd EDWARD SOMERSET presented a petition
from the woollen manufacturers of the county of Glouces-
ter, against imposing any duty on foreign wool,
Mr. H. SMITH presented a petition from Colchester
against the Maldon Charter Bill.
The Hon. Member presented a similar petition film the
Jurors of thr. Oyster Fisheries against the said Bill.
Mr. DENNISON presented a petition from the Huma-
nity Society of Chindos.:stre,et against the Bill for the re-
gulation of Friendly Societies. •
Mr. DENNISON said, some days ago the Hon. Mem-
ber or Knaresborough, had presented a petition to this
House fon) a Mr. O'Reilly, complaining of theloss of his
money by the ,death or insolvency of some officer in the
East India Company's service at Madras. He (Mr. Denni-
son) had a similar petition to present from Mr. Sinclair, who
Lid lost his money under precisely sjipilar circumstances.
co:snie/ BAILEY said the money of those individuals
had never Veen deposited in the Company's funds, and they
hail nothing (7 ,fo with the matter. It was by no means
his intention, ha iiiv, to oppose the appointment of a
v
Committee on the 01444, pf which notice had been given
by the lion. Member for gil:4o)9rough.
Mr. DENNISON said; that if the House granted the
Committee, lie should move that the petition gf Mr. Sin.
chair be referred to it. _ _ .

Mr. W. W. WYNN proentEd a petit:on from tfie Col-
lege of Physicians in London, complaining of the difficul-
ties thrown in the way of the souly of anatomy.
The Hon.. Member also presentecl n petition from the
comity of Montgomery, against thg IV* Ai:t of last
Sassion. . •

MG W. W. WYNN also presented a petition from OA!
Woolgrower of Montgomeryshire, praying for a tax on f. -
reign wood.

Mr. KENNEDY presented a petition from the Provost
sod Magistrates of tbe Bor,Opsh of Ayr, in favour of the
Repeal of tt:e Test and Corporation Acts.
On the motion of Mr,. E.Y.NNED7I,- leaVe was given
for the hail of Roseherry'tO attend -a Conimi,ttee 9f this
Honie, to give evidence on the-Scotch Entail Will.
Mr. SUGDF.N postponed his motion for bringing in a'
13111 to amend 3d William and Mary, c. 14, " for the Re-
lief of Creditors against fraudulent Devi,,es," till this day
se'cinight.
Mr. Altdieers4nrootad7p.ArelsTertfit AaltAetNiiii!refrortiacei,tuitillaet un
Merchants of
Tintrsday
and Manufacturers 'Of Tktprwich, the
miihj,et.
of the Silk Trade.
Sir THOMAS GOOCH presented a petition from tie:
Freeholders and Occupiers of Land in the comity of Std-
'folk, relative to the Tax on the Importation of Foreign
Won'l ; ,al/0 a petition from Eosmere on the sane subject
and against tile Coro Laws.
Mr. HUME moved that the return which had been Lima,
of the expences of the parish of Latipeth a printed, vhkh.
star ordered accordingly. rs
Mr. P, THOAIPSON presented a petition croni- the
Churchwardens and other Inhabitants of Mile-end Old
Town, complaining of the conduct of two of the Magis-
trates for Middlesex, whose names we understood the. Hon.
Member to .say were William Bain, Es j. and Thomas
Wilson, Esq. In one instance they re-appointed a
Surveyor ()idle Roads, who had actually refused to deliver
in his accounts. It might be asked, why did nut the par-
ties-proceed at law ? Their conduct in this .respact was
guided by the opinion of the Solicitor-General, hail
told them that, from the great difficulty of proving any
corrupt motive, he would recommend them not to prpceed.

The petition prayed that the House would adopt inch mea-
sures
as it thought fit to prevent the improper interference
it of Magistrates in cases of is description.
Mr. BERNAL gave 1 e•that on Thursday he should
present a petition from th Journeymen Carpenters. The
purport of the petition was not heard.
Petitions were presented against the Roman Catholic
Claims by Mr. F. WILSON, from Yorkshire ; by another
Hon. Member, from Ely ; by the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-
CHEQUER, from the Archbishop of Dublin; and from
several places in Armagh.
Petitions were presented in favour of the Roman Catholic
Claims, by Mr. CALCRAFT, front Kennington, Ipswich,
and Bury St. Edmunds ; by Lord Bentinck, from Burling ;
by Sir NrciroLas CovenuasT, from East Carran ; and by
Mr. R. Gaosvzwoa,.froin Chester.
Lord BENTINCK, on presenting his petition regretted
the postponement, of the question, and was certain that
the news would be received in Iceland with disdain and
mortification.

Mr. CURTEIS presented a petition from Sussex, re-
specting Agricultural Distress.
Mr. FYLER gave notice that on Thursday next he
should present a petition from the Silk-weavers of Coven-
try and Spitalfiekls.
A message from the Lords announced that their Lord-
ships had agreed to the 'Fest and Corporation Acts' Repeal
Bill, having made certain amendments, to which they de-
sired the concurrence of the House. This announcement
was received with cheers.

Mr. PEEL, in presenting a petition from the Univer-
sity of Oxford against any further concessions to the
Roman Catholics, stated that the petition was couched in
the vaine terms as the petition he had last presented from
that learned body on the same subject. It stated that,
having often impartially weighed the arguments brought
forward on this great question, they still remained of
opinion that the necessity for those bulwarks, which had
been framed . against the encroachments of the Roman
Catholics, was as strong as ever. The Statutes to which
they particularly referred were. those which excluded
persons professing the Roman Catholic religion from hold-
. cog certain offices. As an opportunity would shortly oc-
cur of discussing this great question, and as he felt that
he should take the same course then that he had in-.
variably taken, and probably deliver his sentiments on the
subject, he thought it unnecessary to trou6le the House at
present with any observations.
. _ _

- Sir M. W. RIDLEY-1 could have wished that the
Right Hon. Gentleman, in presenting this petition to the
House, had at least fully stated the circumstances under
which it was brought forward. I could have wished that
he bad stated that a few years ago this petition was car-
ried without a dissentient voice, but that at present it has
been carried only by a majority of 60 to 34 who voted
against it.—(Hear, hear.)—•Such was the fact; and it
certainly affords the fullest satisfaction to think that, in
that quarter in which there has been the most violent and
continued Opposition, they at last begin to see that the ex-
clusion of any body of persons from an equal participation
of civil rights and liberties is neither consistent with the
principles of the English Constitution, or compatible with
the safety of the Established Church. I hail with joy
and satisfaction the presentation of this petition, under
these circumstances, as a proof that a more liberal feeling
has spread itself throughout the country, and which will
ultimately lead to a happy settlement of this question.
Mr. ESTCOURT also felt great satisfaction in the pre-
sentation of this petition ; but be could not see what result
the lion. Member for Newcastle could draw from the cir-
cumstance of this Honourable body having come to a di-
vision en the subject. Such a circumstance only showed
that that enlightened and venerable body had had the sub-
ject under consideration, and that, after the most mature
and grave consideration, their opinion was against the Ca-
tholics. He earnestly hoped the same feeling would pre-
vail in this House, on the discussion of that subject, as had
prevailed in that Learned body on the same occasion, and
that the Claims would be rejected by a majority pro-
portionately equal to that by which this petition was
agreed to.
The petition was laid on the table.
Mr. PEEL presented petitions against further conces-
sions to the Roman Catholics, from Brixhani, in Devon-
shire ; from Guilford ; from the Clergy and Laity of hi
parishes in the counties of Suffolk and Kent ; from Car-
bury ; from Grove Chapel, Camberwell ; from Providence
Chapel, Gray's Inn-lane; and from Kiltnainham.
Petitions were also presented from Bradford and Hali-
fax, relative to Anatomical Subjects.—Referred to the
Committee. -
TEST AND CORPORATION ACTS.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in reference to the message
from the Lords relative to the Repeal of the Test and Cor-
poration Acts, and the amendments made in the Bill during
its progress through the other House of Parliament, ob-
served, that it would be beneath the importance of the
subject to take those amendments into consideration this
day. The best course for the House to adopt, would be to
order the amendinenbi to be printed, and to take them into
consideration on an early day. If this should be the
opinion of the House, he would not say a single word on
the nature of these amendments, but merely move that
they be printed and taken into consideration on Friday next.
—Ordered.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in presenting a petition from
the Dunfermline Friendly Society against the Friendly So-
cieties' Bill, made a few observations; which were not dis-
tinctly beard in the gallery:
Mr. T. P. COURTENAY should not have thought
it necessary to say one word, had he not understood, be-
fore he came into the House, that three Gentlemen, two of
whom had spoken on the subject yesterday with great
acerbity towards him, had to-day spoken of him and the
Bill he ,had brought forward not quite in the same way..
When the Bill was returned to the House next week, he
had not the slightest doubt as to satisfying the House, that
in its introduction, modification, and withdrawal, he had
acted as became him.

Lord J. RUSSELL was sure the Hon. Gentleman had
introduced the Bill with the most benevolent intentions.

The Report on the Election Trial Acts Consolidation
Bill was brought up and agreed to. The Bill was ap-
pointed to be read a third time to-day, and to be engrossed.
Mr. POTTER MACQUEEN moved the Order of the
Day for the second reading of the Settlement by Hiring
Bill.

Mr. CURI EIS said, that the country was much in-
debted to the Hon. Gentleman fur the approach he had
made towards cleansing this Augean stable. The whole
system of the Poor Laws was bad, but one of its greatest
abuses was the law of Settlement by Hiring.
Mr. BENETT said, that the measure now brought
forward seemed a direct attack on the Poor Laws of the
country.

111 r. S. BOURNE could not think that this was by any
means an attack on the Poor Laws. He objected, how-
ever, to the present. Bill, for if passed into a law, it would
cause a new distribution of property.

Mr. SYKES opposed the Bill. He contended that if
an alteration in the existing law was deemed necessary, it
ought to.he 'made only at the recommendation of a Com-
mittee; but there was no report of any Committee to that
effect. Moreover, the proposed measure went to alter the
whole Law of Settlement, and upon those two grounds he
should decidedly oppose it.
Colonel WOOD supported, the motion.
After a few words from Mr. BENzpr,
Mr, itIQLEy COLBORNE said be was inclined to
votefor the second.readiug of this Bill, but would not now
embark on the discussion of the large pinestion of the Poor
Laws generally. The subject of the Bill was ope of the
most fruitful subjects of litigation—that wai one of his views
toy supporting the Bill. The second reason was, to get the
"fart:two t.,0 return to the good old custom of domiciling their
servants, and I:eeping them under their own eye.--(Hear,
hear:)— Crime and vice arise from the dismissal of the la-
bourer after his day; the attauhrnent betkveen biro anti his
master is broken. The five days now excepted from the
year's serving, to prevent a settlement, were given to
drinking and debauchery. These were his reasons for
yotil for the Bill.
Mr. LEY PESTER supported the Bill for similar
reasons.
Mr. N. CALVERT .
supported the Bill, and hoped it
would du great good.
Mr. MONCK would support the Bill as far as tile se':
cond reading at least.
Mr. CRIPPS would vote for the second reading of
the 'till, in hopes that, after time for deliberation, the
lion. Member for Bedfordshire would make the required
amendments.
Lord ALTHOp.P stronEr,lcendenined the present modes
of gaining settlements they led ikfrp oply tq litigation,
but .to perjury. (Hetir, hear.) But notu:ithatanding
Bill, still every person should have a settlement. Ano-
ther reason he had for supporting this measure was, that
by it the farmers would he able to get better servants, and
xhe eh raster of the labouring classes themselves would be
raised uy it.
Mr. SLANEY, balancing the atlyautagps and disadvan-
tages of the Bill, was 'certainly for the seeond reading of it.
The present systemiof Poor Laws was redtieing oitr Pcooe
to pauperism. He did not make imputations on any one,
but when there were between four and five millions ofper-
sons in the State, it became us to investigate the subject.
An Hon. Mr3taen, whose name we did not hear, said
much of the evil arose from settlement by service and
hiring, but most from hiring. One reason with hint for
voting for this Bill was, that.it would prevent the litiga-

tion and perjury of the present system. He thought it
best to get rid of the present system of settlement alto-
gether.
Mr. PORTMA.N supported the Bill.
Mr. Secretary PEEL felt great hesitation in making
up his mind to any course upon this question, hut Ill`
thought it safe to vote for the second reading, lest thp
further discussion of so important a question might he
cushioned. _ _

Mr. STURGES BOURNE explained that it was his
intention to abolish all settlements but that of birth.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL was one of the minority in the
Committee who disapproved of this Bill, and he had not
since altered his opinions.
Sir T. GOOCH thought any change in the present
system must be for the better—so defiled was the system
by perjury and litigation.
Sir E. CARRINGTON would not oppose the Bill.
Mr. MACQUEEN explained.
The gallery was then cleared for a division ; but no di-
vision took place, and the Bill was read a second time.

NEW CORN BILL.
Sir A. GRANT brought up the report of the committee
on the new Corn Bill, which was read a first time.
On the motion for the second reading of the report
being put,
Mr. HUME rose. He was aware that much angry
contention had taken place on thissoliject—a circumstance
which he could only ascribe to the mistake of the country
gentlemen in demanding high protecting duties. For his
own part, he thought that they had no right to claim for
the produce of their estates what was not granted to any
other description of industry, nor to look at the corn
question with a view to their own interest, disregard-
ing the country at large. On the contrary, they should
free themselves from the idea that land formed the most
important consideration in the estimate of a nation's
wealth, as it could be shown fisna history, that the landed
interest of any country was never great except when the
commercial or trading interest was prosperous. If 1 and
was the only or principal ingredient of national wealth,
the situation of Poland, with its abundant-growth of corn,
would be very different from what it was at present; but
it required the addition of commerce to raise it from the
wretchedness 'in which it was sunk. If land ;alone was
the source of wealth, what would be the situation of Ire-
land ? Did any country produce more corn in proportion
to its size? And yet no one could say that Ireland was
prosperous or happy. The want in both instances was
want of trade. It was much to be wished, therefore,
that the landed interest would not seek to gain their own
advantage at the expense of those with whom their fate was
involved. The country had long been misled with regard
to its circulation, by not considering gold and silver like
any other commodities, and dealing with them as such. It
was the same with respect to corn. That general rule
of commerce to buy every thing as cheaply as we
could, was applicable to that as • well at all other
commodities, and was the mo-,t effectual way of add-
ing to the wealth and prosperity of a country. In-
deed, so far was corn from forming an exception to theprin-
ciple of buying every thing as cheaply as we could, he was
prepared to show that in corn, above everything, the prin-
ciple ought to be observed. There was a comparative limit
in the use of sugar, tobacco, and other articles of the same
kind, but the trade in corn must be carried on to an un-
limited extent, increasing as fast as the population in-
creased. The landed gentlemen said, that if corn was
permitted to come in from abroad, their wheatmould not
be used. But what was the fact ? We had, say one
million of people in this country, not more than half fed.
By stimulating the industry of the country, that million
would be fully employed, and thus they would be enabled
to purchase the produce of the land, instead of being
burdens upon it under the operation of the Poor Laws.
The effect of the present system was to produce pauperism,
which was the curse of prohibitory laws. It was with
regret, therefore, that he had heard
,many complain that
the new scale of • duties did not amount in any case
to a prohibition. But, besides being unwise, this
statement was untrue; for even the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson) who deprecated the prohibi-
tory system as much as any man, admitted that when the
price came to 58s. or 595. it amounted to a virtual pro-
hibition. In fact the present scale, as well as the scale of
last year, was contrary to the principles laid down by the
Right Hon. Gentleman, as could be shown by reference to
some of his former speeches. Much confusion had been
introduced into these discussions by the policy of the
landed proprietors in getting the agriculturists to join
them in petitions. He was aware that those farmers who
had long leases to run bad an interest in keeping up high
prices for the period of their leases, but the farmer
who had no such lease had no such interest. The price of
corn' was kept up at an artificial rate, and that was
the reason our manufacturers could not compete with
other countries. Remove these artificial prices, let
trade go on without the incumbrance of prohibitory
laws, and every man in the coutry would soon be
employed. Up to 1815, corn was admitted from
445. to 48s. at a duty of 2s. 6d. and above 48s. at 6d.
which was only a nominal duty. In 1791, the price was
505., and in 1825 it was raised to 625. He understood it
was the intention of his Majesty's Ministers ta keep up a
metallic currency ; if so, they ought, upon their own prin-
ciples,:to ge back to 445., instead of keeping up the Artificial
price in a state of things to whicl'i it was not applicable. The
whole experience they had had of the removal of restric-
tions went to prove that it was attended with an increase
of intercourse, an increase of trade, and consequently an
improvement in the condition of the country, When
they looked to the extreme pressure of taxation, it was in
vain to expect that it could be paid out of the land with-
out the assistance to be derived from successful commerce.
The landed gentlemen said they could not pay the taxes if
their corn was not protected .; but it was what they called
protection that increased the number of paupers, pre-
vented their manufacturers from competing in the foreign
market, and embarrassed the industry of this country in a
way to injure their interests with those of the whole coun-
try. He contended that the principle on which the Mini-
sterial resolutions depended was not of that description on
which the House ought to legislate. He would ask the
House to agree to his proposition that the trade in corn
ought to be put upon the fame footing as the trade in
other articles of industry. If the country were to import
a greater quantity of corn, a greater quantity of labour
would be put into existence. A general prosperity would
take place, ,and even the.,landed, proprietors themselves
would be henefitted. It was said that if foreign corn were
admitted into the country, the landed proprietor would be
deluged and ruined by the supplies of it which would imme-
diately be thrown into our markets; but he was prepared
to show by reference to returns, then upon their table,
relative to the price of corn for the last 30 years is the
different states of the continent, that there was not the
slightest foundation for such an assertion. The ho-
nourable Member then referred to certain returns, stat-
ting
the average price of corn at Dantzic, at Rotterdam,
at Hamburg!), and at Paris; and said that if the landed
proprietors were to add to those prices the price of convey-
ing corn from the continent to England, they would find
that they brought it to very near 555. a quarter, which
was the average price of corn in this country fur the last
few years. If a duty of 4s. or ss. were added to the price
of conveyance, they would find that under such circum-
stances the price of foreign corn approximated very closely
to the price of our own. Would it not then be better for
the agriculturist themselves, instead of attempting to fix
the average price of corn at 60s. a rate at which they
would never be able to keep it—to 'have a free trade in,
corn, admitting theM, in' case there Were any burdens,
which bore excluslyely upon the land, to have a votinter-
veiling duty to that amount and its mere? He might, per-
haps, be asked what those exclusive burdens were; lie
knew of none except tithes or poor-rates, or county rates:
—He was -of opinion that the Whole of those burdens
Would not amount to more than 3s. or 4s. on each quarter ;
but as lie iyisbell to act liberally to the agriculturists,
lie would give them, as a connteryailiag dpty, 4 taX
of Ss. or 10r. a quarter on every importation of foreign
corn. In proposing such a scheme, lie admitted that the
House ought not to pass with top great quickness from the
present seale of duties, hut should come gradually to that
sum at which it intended to fix the permanent duty. He
should therefore propose, that from and after the sth of
.Tiq next, a dutyof 15 • •shouldlevied all
s. quarter beon
foreign core ir4orted'info the ep-antry, and 'dot the duty
should be reduced every year until it canie'dowu' to
where' he would make it permanent: The system of
averages, which for Med part of the'present system of corn
laws, was attended with many inconveniences, and was
perpetually subjecting the grower to great risks. Now,
his proposal got rid of the averages altogether, and cOnse-
writly f all the jnconveniencies to which they gaVe birth.
The opening of she 4)1.4 inaiicet ix) file Whale yoryd ‘iro4l4
give them fair and steady 'prices. at all times. The corn
irket of Holland had been for' the last fifty years the
steadiest in the world, owing to its being an
,open matket;
and if we followed the example of Holland, the certain'
supply which thedernands of the English market'Would
create, woald guard it as well against tlia mischief of
as the mischief of for, prices. He next adverted to, that ,
part of his plan; by Whiih he wished to protect the I
farmer against the effect of low prices. Every ;body
would, undOubiedly, recollect the general ruin which
pervaded the agricultural classes during the years 1822 and
'1823, when the price of born was as low as 38s. p qu 'rter.
Now, in such circumstances, he would give the ag
turists a bounty of MI. a quarter on all the Corn t Mich

they exported. No glut of corn would then take place in
this country. As soon as a glut wus near at hand, the
bounty would enable the agriculturalist to remove his stock
to another country where corn wits dearer, and would thus
enable him to obtain returns from abroad from an article
which would otherwise have beenlost to him. Thus the con
staut exchange of corn between this country and other
countries would prevent the prices from rising too high at
one time, and from sinking too low at another. Besides
thest' selfish advantages, which would he derived from the
adoptions of his scheme, there was another great advan-•
tage, to which he had not yet adverted at all. ' He had
been assured by several respectable merchants, among whom
he had pushed his inquiries, that if the United States of
America could come with their corn into our market—and
they could, not come into it at a less price thau!stisi, to re-
munerate the grower—if they could see in our iiplick the
admission of the only'produce which they have, their dis-,
position to manufacture for themselves would he, changed—
the•y would willingly exchange their raw pi.o'duee for our
manufactures—and in despair of competing with us,
would strangle at once their nascent manufactories. The
Hon. Member, after-some further observations in the like
strain, concluded by moving a string of resolutions, which
we published at length in a former number of this paper.
Mr. WARBURTON seconded the motion.
On the question being put,

Mr. C. GRANT rose, and said that it was not his in-
tention to inter at large into the principles of the proposed
Corn Bill. Those principles had been so often discussed
in the course of the present Session, that they must be
quite familiar to Hon. Gentlemen. With respect to the
able speech of the Hon. Mover of the Resolutions now be-
fore the House, there were many principles stated in that
speech in which he (Mr. Grant) concurred.—(Hear.)—
He would not say that he concurred with the Hon. Gen-
tleman in all the conclusions which be had drawn from
those principles, or in all the different opinions which be
had expressed upon the subject; but he agreed in the ge-
seral principles which the Hon. Gentleman had there laid
down. He agreed with him in thinking that a high pro-
hibitory price for corn Was' injurious to the grower as well
as to the consumer, and that the experience of the last 14
or 15 years had 'proved that the effect of a high prohi-
tory price of dude, was to produce the exportation of ca-
pits!. He agreed wsth the Hon. Gentleman that a high
protecting pricer—a monopoly price, for instance—was not
consistent with the present state of our currency.—(Hear.)
—He concurred with him for many reasons in thinking
that the system of legislation which hail been main-
tained on this subject for the last fifteen years, ought
to be corrected. It was upon these general principles
that be (Mr. Grant) defended the measure of this year,
and it was upon these principles, and for these reasons,
that he had given his support to the measure of last Ses-
sion. And here lie could not refrain from observing, that
many of the objections urged by the Right Hom Gentle-
man to the measure produced now, equally applied to that
introduced in the last Session of Parliament.—(Hear from
Mr. Hume.)—He feared that the Hon. Gentleman had
pushed his doctrines to extremes. It was for this House
to consider what was the true practicable means of chang-
ing the system of a high prohibitory law by the introduc-
tion of a better. system of legislation. The Hon. Gentle-
man, Mr. Home, had charged the Right Hon. the Secre.-
tary for the. Colonies with inconsistency in not applying
the principles which he had carried into operation in .re-
gard to other commodities to that of cora. The Hon.
Gentleman seemed to suppose, that in all these commer-
cial changes his (Mr. Grant's) Right Hon. Friend had
adopted one inflexible rule in respect to all commodities,
and under all ciretunstances ; but he should have recol-
lected, that in regard to the various articles formerly
brought under the' consideration of the House his (Mr.
Grant's) Right Hon. Friend had adopted the. rate of duties
Which he then proposed, to the peculiar circumstances and
condition of each. He was not sure that his Right lion.
Friend's principles had b.ien adopted to their fullest ex-
tent in regard to these various articles, but so far as
they had been adopted, they were accommodated to
their peculiar circumstances and condition. The Hon.
Gentleman opposite said corn should be dealt with in
the same manner as any other commodity. To a certain
degree it would be right to deal with it as far as possible
in the same way. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had
himself shown that it must be also dealt with in a different
manner from other commodities. Uri a former night the
Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the two modesofimposing,
a duty on corn, namely, by the imposition of an ad vu
lorem duty, and. of ...mixed duty. The Hon..; entletnan
adverted on that occasion to the ad valorem duty, which it
had been proposed to fix upon corn, and which would tise
and sink, according to the depression or - rise in the value
of the article. But did the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume)
propose any such duty as that now ? •

Mr. MABERLY, as we understood, denied that he had
proposed an ad valorem duty.
Mr. GRANT said the Hon. Gentleman had used the
expression of an ad valorem duty, and the. Hon. Member
who now proposed the resolutions before the House, al-
thiiugh he then adverted to the expression, did not found
his present proposition upon such a principle. He (Mr.
Grant) did not wonder that the Hon. Gentleman had ab-
stained from making that principle the basis of Ills resolu-
tions; but the very reason which induced him to do so
should have made him throw doubts upon the proposition
that corn ought to be dealt with in the same way as other
commodities.—(Hear.)—The Hon. Gentleman proposed a
fixed duty, calculated according to the burdens directly im-
posed upon the producer. He (Mr. Grans) entertained
great doubts of the accuracy of such a calculation, and of
any system of duty founded upon it. It waknot possible to
make a correct calculation of the direct charges .imposed
upon the farmer, because they were ever varying ;
such as tithes, poor rates, &c. It would be impossible,
in his opinion, to found a fixed duty upon such
fluctuating charges. The Honourable Gentleman had
objeitted to the resolutions proposed by Government
on the ground that they would produce an unsteadi-
ness of price, and he spoke as if he had experience of
their effects in that way. But the Hon. Gentleman
could not as yet speak of the operation of resolutions
which had not yet passed. The Hon. Gentleman was
wrong in supposing that a fixed rate of duty would pro-'
duce a steadiness of price. Corn, like all other commodi-
ties, was subject to variations in its price : it was also sub-
ject,to variations peculiar to itself, and upon neither could
any fixed duty have any effect. One of the recommenda-
tions of the measure now proposed by the Government was,
that it was adjusted to the variations in the price of corn,
and that to a certain degree it tended to correct the fluctua-
tions of that commodity. The Hon. Member who had
seconded the resolutions seemed to think it very improbable
that a period of scarcity should ever arrive, when the price
of corn would rise so high that it would be impossible to
maintain this duty. The history of the corn trade in any
country was opposed to the supposition of the Hon.
Member. Corn, it was well known, was subject often to
the most violent fluctuations in price, and in his (Mr.
Grant's) opinion, it was not alone possible, but judging
from .experience he would say that it was very probable
that such a period of scarcity might arrive when such a
duty could not be maintained, and when the consumer would
call aloud for the. interposition of the Government. He
was sure the House would .never wish to see this country
placed in such a eituation.-4Hear.)—lf corn should rise
to 100 s., how could this duty of 10s. be then collected ?
It was idle to say that such a period would never arrive. It
.was .very probable that it might occur, and then the cries
of a suffering population would compel the Government to
interfere. Would the House place the exercise of such an
invidious power in the hands of Chives nment ? These were
his objections to the propositions of the Hon. Gentleman.
But the principle of a varying duty was to accommodate
itself to the variations of seasons and the fluctuations in the
price of corn. Such was the principle of the measure
proposed by Government. When the price of cnru reached
to a certain height the protection granted to the grower
must yield to the necessities of the consumer. On the
contrary, when a depression occurred in the price of corn,
the scale of duties proposed by Government gave to the
agriculturist that protection to which he was fairly entitled,
and prevented the influx of corn from overwhelming him.
Such were his (Mr. Grant's) reasons for opposing the reso-
lutions proposed by time Hon. Member for 4b,ercreep,
Lords HOWICK said the 'Right lion. Gentleman (Mr.
Grant) had disputed the accuracy of the calculation upon
which those resolutions were founded. But if the pro-
tection to be given by the varying state of duties merely
went, as the Right Hun. Gent. had stated, to counter-
balance the burdens upon land, he (Lord Howick) would be
glad to know upon what other principle, or species of caleu •
Wiwi, that scale was founded ? Surely OP PritWiPle of
Protection should be carried so ear as to defend the disad-
vantages of soil against foreign competition. If that were
to be the principle of protection, then they hail better build
hot-houses and grow sugar caaes.—(Hear.)—He
(Lord
Howick) was ready to admit that it was extremely desir-
able to put an end to the alternations tq which they hail
been exposed during the last 15 years, But a scale wLich
varied as the price became mace or less, 'night only expose
the producer to alternations of ruinous losses and'ekorbitutit
profits. The fixing of the scale of duty lie conceived to be
the best remedy to provide against such alternations.
Mr. F. BARING said, after 12 years of peace an endea
your was now made to produce the curse of war,—scarcity.
He would support the measure for imposing a fixed scale of

I

duty, but not upon the' Mule . .Wire stated •
Hon. Member for Aberdeen.. He was Opposed. to the
sure proposed by Goverrunent.,,,. ,
Mr. 0. CAVE was of opinion thlt.Mr.
.C 41116141
would do no good, but that the present Measure Itt°""1
great deal of inischie£ He 'should 'therefore vote I°l
amendment of the Hon. Member for Montrose, bet/
his opinion, it would keep corn at a stationary price, It
was a better principle than any that had- hitherto
proposed.
Mr. -IRVlNG'preferred the present measure W
last Session, because he thought the higher scale 447,,
afforded a considerable additional security, which 'P
view of the subject, the welfare of the country,: se
the just interest of the landholders, stood in need,
(Hear.). Much had been said about the labour best°

on manufactures, and this point was insisted on streo.

as a reason for allowing the free importation of grails')
lie believed it would he found that the price of labour
not form more than 1-6th part of the cost ,of the 01.:
factures. Looking to all the bearings of.the. present 'I
sure, he considered it to be an adjustment with whielli
patties ought to •be. satisfied.—(Hear.); He felt tb
was not a measure which, in any degree, pressed 17"
particular class. If gentlemen looked .round the cod
they would see that the farmers were nut rich ;
the contrary, that they were poor. They had lost linof
of their capital, and they deserved some protection.
sol
therefore, had no hesitation in saying, that the IDs
under consideration met with his approbation.—(lleir:;
Lord MILTON said, the Hon. Member who
sat down, had described this measure. to be a modifier,
justrnent of this question. Now, it appeared to. hilisV
the contrary, to be a decided compromise between 0,
great parties. (Hear.) That its general principle oil
good he never heard any individual admit-nor was is si
mitted by-the Right Hon. Gentlemen who had beet's
conspicuous in 'aup4orting the measure (Mr. HuskS
and who on this occasion, he knew not why, was
from the discussion of a question, in which, if he,
present, he would, doubtless, take a very, deep inter7l
. Mr. WARBURTON intimated that the Right
Secretary was absent in consequence of
.Lord MILTON expressed his sorrow, At. the circo
stance. He laMented the erroneous
chiefly interested in the Bill took of their own interesta,sn,d
sense—and still mere dill lie lament that erroneous Verto
it operated against the country. When he saw.gentleo
divide from time to time, for the purpose of. isettling,;
tiler the price of oats, rye, or. barley should or shello,
be one shilling more---when he saw them coming
even to peas and beans-L:When he witnessed these sc:i
was in vain fur him tolisten to the high-flown speee.Phd
Hon. Members, who declared that they had no WI
exalt their own interests to depreciation of other
of the community. They must, under .such circumsttlif
give him leave to say, that he must place their 10,,
in one scale, and their actions in the other. (11
The fact was, that the lauded interest were castingo.
longing, lingering, look behind," to the high prices 'lrak,
they had at the end of the last war; but neverth,
they appeared to him, in the course they recommeno
have mistaken their own • interest. The Hon. M
voI,
who had just sat down, maintained a principle ';
coining from a gentleman so conversant with the prindi
of manufactures and commerce, astonished
ciple which no writer on commercial subjecte, from tbei)
of the last century to the time 'of Adam Smith, andlio,
further; which no ,writer on the stilljectOrtinir ostp t
had ever promulgated=namely, that- labour was ""
most • important article in manufactures.`
Heaven ! was it reserved for one of the most actiOno,
and acute commercial men of the day, to assert, ato.o,ei
too, in the British House of Commons, that the pr's
labour was of little or no importance at all? ".
Mr. IRVING.—I did not assert any thing of -thePtia
I stated, that according to the most accurate.calcuo4
the price of labour was, in the coat of manufactures,
one-sixth. • his)
Lord MlLTON—Precisely so; but the inferedee
he drew from it was, that this one-sixth was a mutts
very little importance; ' Now he, on the contrary, 10,1
it as a matter of very great and serious importance. ty
was the course which the landed interest called on J
House of Commons to take?: They said " high per 5e
a good thing.'' So did he—lie agreed with therfr'La
vided the high price arose from a speedy and incre7Ao
demand. But the high price which
_they were eall'vrie
to aid was of a different kind. It was not a high Prie
arising from an improving population, but a high P.lO
caused by a stinted. supply. ; Suchs high , Imes A° ini
only a symptom but a cause of misery; anti it stan.ift
that high pricels that ...:44 fos.k 41r1.14.r rtliT -1,0!" r
tend. to think Of foi-tearsll4 tke prosperity ni
' farmers by levying an impost which mulct be' ittittripoo,
the manufacturers, was the Most' f(allaciouia idea this
class of individuals could possibly entertain..—(HOnri;d
He did not wish to see one acre of ground4.:fog,e
thrown out of cultivation, as itivas called butttlia 9700
of the land, lie must take leave to say, 'welt to coinor%
it at their own expellee ; he did not like to.see it cultio.l,
at the expence of others,.. If they 'could not get it els")
vated but at a certain price, and if that price were.fulli
by a legislative enactment from,thepeople, it wAtivietroy
they took it fromthe pockets of others, But )41 AO',
House took a step whieh rendered every attempt 91 0
kind futile. They determined wisely and 'unaniniousilj
abandon the paper system, and to have recourse to a 0,2
lie currency—(Hear)—and not 2.4 haul's 'ago, he
with great pleasure, the Right Hon. the Chancellor O.
Exchequer declare, that it was the deterMinatioP °f
or
Majesty's Government rigorously to adhere to that s_."
lution. (Hear.) He hoped that no hints, no'e3tV.,
lations, which might come from those who faivistur,o present measure, would indUce Ministers' to interfere w,
the determination which Government came to in 16
at the same time he would warn them that six "11l
would not pass • over their heads before such an attoi
would be made. But, when they determined on reett'oy
to a metallic currency, they had, in fact, 'prejudge" or
measure on the table. They had, in effect,.
mined that the resolutions should be a dead letter—• 'fii
a metallic currency being established,' corn egoold 104,i
to 645. (Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman (Mr.lrvinlia..)
stated that a vast number of farmers in England ha," s'
one-half of their capital. He was exceedingly sorry for r
but lie was extremely happy to assure the Right .1108°11
able Gentleman, that those farmers with whom he it'also;+
quainted were not in any such situation. The oi,
which the agricultural interest were now running wits st
tremely injurious to themselves, and still"more injuriouso4
those whose prosperity they mistakingly thought they jo
advancing. Any attempt at keeping up a high price
this country must occasion great fluctuations, than W)
nothing could be more disadvantageous to all the Pao
interested. Against these fluctuations it ought to he 0
great wish of the House to guard, and nothing, iu
opinion, would so effectually cure that evil as an er

blished trade in corn.
NlebY
Mr. PEEL thought that, on this occasion, the
Lord had done injustice to the representatives of the 14
interest of this country.—(Hear, hear.)—He did Po
however, consider it fair for the Noble Lord to
.!,401
that the representatives of the landed interest in that
were actuated by private. views. In the 'first placeV
speech which the Noble Lord rose to answer, ,and illsl.
was in favour of a protecting duty, was delivered 3,
gentleman nut at all connected with theland.—(heir)
by an individual whom the Noble Lord himself ad deter
,)
as one of the most enlightened members o. the coaner,t
interest.—(Hear.)—lf the Noble Lord found a geode"
against whom no possible imputation on the score of b'ele
sonal interest could be advanced—and whom he daterity
as peculiarly capable of taking enlightened. views of
commercial interests of the country—if he found "cb
man advocating the measure, he thought it was too nI:0/
for the Noble Lord to say, that every individual Who
that particular view of the subject was influenced h/
the desire of serving liimself.--(Hear.)—Neither did '4O,
Noble Lord describe fairly what had taken place °
th
respect to the proposition for an additional duty On °all;
rye, and barley. That protection had been called fur
this principle, that if a protecting duty were laid on
and. not ou other sorts of grain, it would be the menet!)
discouraging the growth of the latter. The No?le,,gll
adjustment, and lie
(gaol') had adverted to the present measure Deli°
40 dwelt; rather inconsistentliol
iatigaciory circumstances under which the subject f, I
been discussed, without excitation throughout the coo° ool'
which had evinced a disposition to be content. 11:01
it was to be assumed, that the manufacturing 10°00
Was not displeased with it. If, then, there vas b!
general contesat and acquiescence in the arljnatment, .rfol
should the Noble Lord contend that the landed intei,el
were pressing fikr Op protection of their own objects? the
the House. hut agree to a fixed protection • of 10s. 0,1)01,10
importation of foreign, corn, and he would assure the P the
Lord that there would be no ground for exulting
Lord absence of discontent in the country. The Noble Lem the
alluded to a declaration of his ,Right Hon. Friend, ko of
Chancellor of the Exchequer) as to the determinagi°sisl
Clovernment to adhere to the existing law on suPllll,Ol/
the 1/. notes issued by country bankers. He (Mr. .derel
entirely acquiesced in that statement, and be Moil lid
that the question now was, whether we shonld not 01,r
determined effort to establish a metallic currency;
this effort was not now adhered to, it never would be' tt/
country bankers were allowed to issue small note* cif
inevitable 'effect Net uld be to displace all the gold frooto'
culatieo, and the House must have recourse to the '"

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