The Sun.
London, England, 1826-04-19 00:00:00

CHANCERY CONTEMPT.

Mr. HUME • presented a Petition from an individual of the
name of William.Richardeon, who had been confined for a long
period in York Castle for contempt of the Court of Chancery. This
maividtuti had a rife interest in a property of 7001. dependent upon
the life of a child nine years ofage; neglected to answer the
filing of a Bill in Chancery, andAipon apprialtion to a Solicitor on
the subject, he was infontied that the Whole might be compromised
on• the payment of SOU with the addition of SOL nr 40/. ripeness
to th Solicitor. As he bad but a life interest in the property, he
was unable to raise that sum, and be was accordingly committed to
prison. He would submit to the Seaetary of the Horne Depart.
mans, that the ptnceetlings of the Court of Chancery ought to be
• looked into. The delays of the Court were so tedioue, and the ex-
pence attendant upon such delays was so great, that no man Yen-
cured id contest any thing in that COutt, unless he wished to thtow.
his money away. Two years ago, el Cominislion had been ap-
pointed to examine Into the proceedings' of the Court of Chancery,
and he felt convinced that no account of that Commission would
be received in Parliament this Seesion. He would also state, from
all be had ;teen and heard, that the Lord Chancellor and his Court
were the greatest curse to this country---(Expressions of surprise.)
It became the duty of the House to look into three afraira, and not
allow the whole country to complain, without affording some re-
dress. The petitioner also complained of the injustice of confin-
ing the child also in the jail, where, during the Lett five years, they
had both been attacked with a fever which had nearly deprived
them of life. He would conclude by moving the House to pass an
Act to liberate persona confined in jail for contempt of the Court
of Chancery, who were wilting, tut unable, to pay the requisit4
Elms demanded for that purpose.
Mr. Loc H ART opposed the Petition.
Mr. Secretary PEEL thought the Ilan. Member should have
given notice of his intention of presetting a petition, complaining
of the proceedings of the Court of Chancery in such unmeasured
terms as the lion. Member had made use of. Ile would protest
against the practice of petitions being presented, and accom-
panied with such invectives as the House had heard, during
the absence of those persons who might be able to give a satis-
factory explanation of all grievances complained of in such peti-
tions. He did not deny the right of the Hon. Member to pre-
sent petitions without notice, but at the seine time. he would leave
it to his own sense to decide upon the injustice of the practice as a
general system.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL objected to receiving a psti-
tion, which charged injustice upon the Court of Chancery and
the Lord Chancellor. If such ex parte statements were tolerated
by the House, avitt man was then in gaol, however meritedly
imprisoned, who would fail to load the judicaturc of the country
with obloquy? If Members were allowed to advance such state-
ments, without substantiating them by proof, he would say that a
House of Commons—arttpk as be wished its powers to be—.
would then become the greFttest curse to the country.--Should it
prove the fact, that any man's chiracter might thus be hunted
down by partial allegations, curses Would belong to the latitmli•
narian principles of inquiry-adopted by the House. Was the Hon.
Member prepared to obey the caU of the House, to make out
• case in justification of his expressions? He was not fortunate
enough to be present, but be had learned on cotnim; into the lobby,
that the lion. Gentleman said that the greatest curse in the coun-
try was the Lord Chancellor. He hoped that those who heard 'the
word, would say whether a case had been made out to justify them.
It was due to the characters of Judges, that nothing ought to pc
asserted against them in one place, which the speaker would not
venture to utter in another. _

Mr. P. 6R,E NFELL said, that the expreeeion as applied to
the Lord Chancellor was not becoming ; but as directed against
the system ofpractice in the Court of Chancery, it was properly
employed, and that the system was a vicious one, he believed in
his conscience to be a filet. In proof of this assertion, he would
maintain that, as the Court was now constituted, it enabled a
rich man to ruin a poor one, and where such an abtiee was pos-
sible, he could not think the term inappropriate. So far as he
was able to collect, on- a perusal of the report of the. Conitris-
sinners appoir.ted to inquire into the praetiee of the Court,
no corrective had been pointed out for the greateet evil of the
whole systeru—nernely, the liberty to file what was it rmed 4, a
Fishing Bill ;" which was a vile instrument of oppression, and
wars from beginning to end a mere fiction. In coree4etenee of a
fishing bill, the whole life of an innocent individual might be
spent in resisting attacks made upon his character by 0 mali-
cious adversary- ; and, after having spent all his property in con-
ducting his defence, he was entitled to' no restitution for what-
ever loss he might have sustained. The only result of this sys-
tem of mischief and oppression IV" that the party was die-
miteed with the taxed coati, which in general did not exceed one-
half of the real expence incurred by the suit.
Mr. H. SI.T.NOTEIt had never heard a more outragemie ettack
made on the character of any public ftinctionary, than the lion.
Gentleman had made upon the cheratter of the Lord. Chancellor •
and he thought.the Rouse would not be doing its ditty, unless
they came to a resolution-recording their sense of the indecency of
the expression which had been employed.
Mr. HtJME considered that the fangunge he had ivied was

perfectly applicable, and Est, had :so objection that hi; *ords
should be taken down, in order that the truth of their applica-
tion ;night be tried. Any one oaavensant with the praitice of
the Court of Chancery, he was sure, would agree with him in the
view which he had taken. 4.raply to the observation's of the
Solicitor-General, he would say, that lie had stated said made out
a case which jtistified his words. An humble Irian, put:s-
ing a property worth about seven hundred poumbi, subject to
a mortgage of three hundred pounds, was arrested and thrown
into prison for a contempt. because he could nut pay the ts Xpoller4
netvesary for filing an answer to a Bill. Several others weresi-
ofilarly circurn:tanued with the unfortunate . petitioner; arid he
was aware of one case in which a man wit confined thirty-two
rem for a contempt of Catirt. Ile was asked why he had not
ascertained the troth of his allegation ? To this Le answered that
he had asceetained it. and having done see, he wished to desisnatc
acts as they deseried, sni not in Milk and water lauguige. fir
called the Court a curse, and would be warranted id applying the
came term to the ode whutolerated its abuses. If the Chincellor
knew all the miser which iliT%-ed from the practice of his Court,
for he did not him bird-hearted or 'oo4e:ink—lie was sure
be would ameliorate Lase ivstm. had attributed blame to the
Rouse and to Ministers-, as tt C:ia Ciitacolloc, and he re-
peated that what he said wise deservA.
Mr. U. 51134. INER was uvraie that he had lost the roper op-
portunity of moving that the floe!. NleWwer's words thnt S hl
taken down; but if he repeated them asain, he Would move to
that effect.

Mr. ELLICE did not know ithether the Zinn. Member woe ft.:
riout in the intimation which he bad just given; hitt if he really in-
tended to make such a motion, he had himself no objection to arfard
him en opportunity, by repeating that the Court in queition was
a.eurse to the country.
The petition was then read. It stated that the petitioner,
William Richardson, was confined in the Castle of York for a con-
tempt of Court, and that he-was thereby deprived. of the means
of earning his bread. That in the year 1824 he became seized
of :it life estate in seven acres of land, and. A haw built thereon.
(in all worth snout 6001., and subject to a mortgage of 8000,
with remainder over to Jus. Gardiner,- en infant .stilea years of
age (the heir at law ofpctitioner's tiezeased wife), now n prisoner
with the petitioner. Viet the toottgger, - Leescn, called
upon petitioner to foreclose bis mortgage by payment of the prin-
cipal rum, with which 'demand the petitioner was unable to com-
ply., That shortly after, he received a nonsensical paper about
John Doe and Richard Roe, and about force nod arms, staved
and stones; &c. to which petitioner paid no attention, not being
aware that it was the notice of an action of ejectmet4, which'
was 'followed up, and in which he was left undefended, and
-cast with costs. That subsequently, Leeson, the
inortgager, filed a bill :of foreclosure against
_Abe petitioner,
;and - Soaeph Gardiner the infant. That the petitioner was
tinxionirto pay the principal sum of 8001., but that Leeson' would
not aei,ept it without the. CUM Of the action and bill, and A
small arrear of interest: That the petitioner would willingly
have complied with this demand too, •but was unable to raise a
larger • auto than SON., as having only a life estate. That
the petitioner Applied to several Attornies,
,in order to file such
an answer to the bill as would enable Lesson to tell the land,.
but they refused to undertake the cause without an'adyance of
ty twen or thirty pounds, the probable expence'of filitt the answer
which.surn the petition,er had no mode of rai!ing...--That he was
imprisoned since last November for not answerikt:*hieb he was
most willing, but yet unable to do. That
,wines his Confinment,
he was attacked with fever, and was much indebted throughout
his sickness to the humanity of the keeper. of the 'Castle. That
the Physician who attended him was of opinion trit his liberation
from prison was necessary to his life. That whcn Ads vas re-
presented to Leeion, he :refused to grata reins, either to Lilt oe,
the minor. '

On the question beingsitt, that fife petition-be printed,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL Would . object to the
printing of the petition ; but he wished to chew that it tie-.
tailed no act but what every one was accustomed to do, who
had a mortgage. No Member of the House who was a mort-
gager, would hesitate to bring an action of eke.-tment, and the
a Bill of foreclosure. The petitioner here was tenant for life of
an estate subject to a mortgage, and if any party was blameable, it
was surely the mortgager, Mrs. Leeson, but the Hon. Member for
Montrose, who seldom failed in the uomenclaturc of maiklietion,
preferred attacking the Lord Chancellor, and was too gallant a
man to attach censure to the lady.—(lt was here suggested that
the mortgager was not a female.)—The SOLICIT9R-OVIERAL, in
continuation, said that he had mistaken they Christian name, which
he understood to be Elny. But what was the simple fact ? Lee-
son claimed the amount of his tiebt,,and that was just what the
Hou. Member himself would have done. Would he say, as a
man of honour and a Member of Parliaruent, that if money were
due to him upOn a mortgage, he would not enforce the payment
of it by imprisoning the party who withheld the debt? Neither
did he blame the Attorney who refilled to untiettake the conduct
of the suit without a security for his colts; but how could• the
fault be laid to the Judge or the Court ? fn the present instance,
be believed that obstinacy, and not necessity, occasioned the die-
tress of the party,
.for he never knew a case in which au unfortu-
nate man was imprisoned for not putting in an answer, if he were
willing to do justice. How unfair to blame the Chancellor for
what theY themselves did way day ! There was no *ay of gain-
ing poseension in equity but. by.punieLtnent for contempt, which
was inflicted by taking into custody the person of the delinquent
party. The Honourable Gentleman said he did not like milk and
water expressions ; neither did he (the Solicitor-General). It was
not of that he complained, but of an attempt to aft to the Chan-
cellor the blame which ought to be directed against the Court.
But in the caste before them neither the Chancellor nor the Court
Was censurable. Under these circumstances he would say, that of
ail the false petitions and aggressions upon the character of the
ChancellOr—and many such had of late been advanced—the peti-
tion now before the House was the moat flagrant.

Mr. RARING said, that hie Hon. Friend had called the at-
tention of .the House to a most intolerable grievance. He re-
gretted, indeed, that the hasty expreetvion applied to the Lord
Chancellor should it diepose the Hodge to consider theimportant
question of the real grievance. He was aware of a case quite
illustrative of the abuses which prevailed. An individual who
owned some cotters and gardens sold them to another, to whom
he delivered piegeeseion, But after the conveyance wits made,
the grantee disputed the validity of the granter's title, and in
consequent* refeetei to pay him the purchase,mottey. In these
circumstances, the latter called for a surrender of the promisee,
and was willing to quark the bargain ; but to this proposal the
former would not consent, threatening to the a bill in order to
enfOree performance of the -contract. The: poor man thus ill-
treated applied to him (Mr. Haring) for advice. Not being con-
vergent in such subject..., he etafed the matter to a Gentleman
learned in the law, and his reply was, 44 Sir, the geautor's title
is clear anti indisputable, and can he tally established in equity.
Rut then, before three steps are taken in the suit—the gardens
10. Q, gone !"—(rJear, bear !)--Ii was plain that equity justice was
quite out of the question in any suit the enbject of which was lees
than 2,0001. in value. If small cases could not attain summary
redress in equity, it would be better to afford theta some lees per-
feet measure of justice. When a bill was filed against a poor
nun for the purpose-of annoying hint, where the subject of
liti-
gation did hot exceed four or five hundred pounds, there ',Vas no
tltance of his getting out of Court with safety;
Mr. CANNING said, that the Hoti. Gentleman' seemed to think
the petition Net Audi grievancee peculiar to the practice of the
Court of Chancery; but it was no such thing. The first process
against the petitioner Was that of a Court of Law, as was evident
from the albution made to the paper containing the names of John
Doe and Richard Roo. After the termination of the suit agaittat
the petitioner, the equity proceedings followed, and both were
equally chargeable wirh the logs sustained. If the Hon. Gentle.
rean's words went to thie, that law wan deplorably expensive, and
ev Phil
oinntem thep world; but
would
fliat the painful prse of the rich over the poor was 1.,.
eeeettrily attended with much hardship to the latter, hies conclu-
stove were perii.etly true; hut such inconvenience was inseparable
from the conetiturion of aliifttaiir:emcoaninmthtotnwithieet„.
that through
rcougennhplaininleteb
was not oh.ofiltih;tl,;:tecnoeneito
publict'ral
the inference drawn. front all Lew was directed against a particular
to
.jbei:;uditisaelti.ine'Rpodihne7outeedorotlidn- his 06-dation, and would find that hie was
Italy holding up the indivilhal against whom. his attaelt was de„
however,
signed, to the protection of the House, wait'aetonieheil•that

one *3 acute u the Ifonourable Gentle:air, did pot r„limk;ry„.
manifest' abvurdity 'whidi appeiired 'on the floe of thi *oG:it
—namely the tteternent of a child being imprisoned (or 400. i.
tempt. When the petition was read, he lamented that the po-
verty of the petitiolter bad been productive of au moult
tress: he did not therefore retniirk ttpon the. cloSurdity, think
ing it quite harmless, until he heard the iihservationa tio.,which it
gave rise; but it now becantii a queition whether a petition,
containing a palpable falsehood,- singlet t',) be received.: ;So Ittatgi
for the first balf of the petition 'upon tildcli.the Don.
,Oeritlenitr,
might as well go into a tirade against the. venerable ClilefStnitiee
of the King'4 Deuel agAii,it the Lord qwwiubi. hillwoond
part of the petition related indeed entirely to the court.
cery. A Bill•tilts sled, to. which the. deferelatit dui* not to
reply, and the emit accordingly proceeded in it ordinary cows.:
The defendant wee inapfitoneti for a Contempt, end that WO : the
whole subject of complaint. Now let them hitt conaitle; the
reverse. Let it.be supposed that the . cornplaitst came fr.Oin.Alte
other party—that a debt was due to, him upon mortgage,: %fiat
he went to law fur the recovery oi'ltis prepertyi bits oauld riot
get it, became the Court would' not , corillsei the -defendant
to answer to his bill, by committing 'him for a contOntPtc—,
(Hear, hear!)--In such a case would .4.401 lie just iditblid for
the, Downy-able getnher to bduris skim. Chian:eV-Nip as halite one.
which lie now advocated. - It was' tistisir in the- aks *. to
visit upon the Chancellor inconveniences naterslly 'euulting
from the law ; and all that lied been said r*ilght be as justly.urged
against a Judge of the king's Ilench, or are other person holdin
a judicial situatioii: lie thought he beard the lb*, Gentleman
disclaiming all personality, so he might • now perceive that hie
complaint was Misdirected. Ile *hied to God that a remedy
might be found.for the etils hiuttglit under their consideration;
but that remedy certainly *as not likely to' be f.icilitated by' per-
sonal vimperatibn. If the abject; hoWelrery t'f the personal attack
thus made tipun.the Nobleand Learned Lord were to attempt to
displait that individual from the high judicial situation which he
held, he.must say that lie thought, so far front its being at an.
likely .to.accomplieh that object, it would prove more than any
thing.else the means of rivettiug him in it Mere firmly than ever.
—(Loud Obeera.) •

Mr...TM-IX WILLIAMS, agreeing perfectly in the principle
that nothing coldd he Mere improper thee the introduction of
any thing like personality in this diecitaiiiim, felt it neeee-
eety, to premise, on the outset, that he wished that Noble Lord
well, as that Noble Judge had once in 141 place, in the. other
House expressed himself, with reference to another high arid
distinguished person iu that House, on a• wtll kilo% n Occitsion
when theY happend to differ in opinion. But what in this in-
stance said. both the patient before him, and the patient behind
him, or was the' Hon. sfernbet- for Surrey and the. flue: Member
for Montrose, and•others whu were of the mine sentiments, all to
le treated with the same inattention as to the subject of their torn=
plaints? The' Hon. Secretary for the Home Department, Ott the
occasion of the motion for a Commiseioh to enquire into Chancery
grievances, Which . had been • already treated and censured as a
nuisance to society at large, had preferred' a aort of pocket
eion of his own, which it was admitted would take two ye:witty in
investigation before any thing would finally be reported on the late;
jest of those grievances. Then the Home was called on to approve
of the, labours of this abottive•coninaiseiooi to try the merits of the
Noble and Learned Lord, through the medium of his own officers
and ateritehis, upon an imperfect -rep olt drawn up on 250 or,
250,000 Chancery cases, he could not tell ivhich, nor wee the
number of. any the slightest inn3ortance. But he could tell the
Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of Foreign Affairs, that there
was nO• reoe en. to dread that any extent of vituperation would' pro.;
duce any change in the sentiments of that Noble and Lestrned.Lottli
whether that vituperation' were confined to the tingle term. by
which the public denounced the grievances of suitors in Chancery
as a curse, or in the more studied and prepared vittiperationeWl44
no one knew hose to to his knowledge with more effeettlian
the state Right lion. Gentleman opposite, That Right lion.
Gentleman might cheer up aril take comfort to himself, for that
Noble and Learned Lord would Cater quit office, hut with fifie•---
(A laugh.)-e-The country was therefore in this predicament even
by the confession of the noble and Learned e•ieude,
that it must, during the life of that Noble totd, except it axe
?teemed itself strongly so as to eor'4el his resignation, remain'
in this hopeless condition as respected the rights of suitors the
(;hurt of Chancery, where it was now matter of notoriety-that
no man of moderate property or fortune could obtain justice..
Mr. Secretary PEEL was now satisfied from *hat bad escaped'
' front the Hon. and Learned Member, who begin% by professing
himself se totally in ignorance as to the information submitted to'
Parliament on the state of the ()mart of Chancery, that he did not
know whether there were 190 Cale* inquired into or 180,000;
that no inquiry would have contented him. Suppose there had
been a, report founded on an inquiry into only seven or eight eases,
the lion. and Learned Member would no doubt have laughed at it,
whilst at the lame time, with remarkable inoonelatency; he argues
that there have been so many cases inquired into that the Report
ban he good far nothing. Last Session the lion. and Learned
Member begged that there should be no meakre report;„ now; 'be-
cause the evidence, withoitt the report, was full arid expbeit, he tat -
ed round and rejected that as too kap Long before the meeting
of that House this year, he (Mie Peel) had. certainly irregularly,
taken upon his own responsibility to put that evidence into •the
hands of the printer• so as to be in a state of forwardness to put
it into the hands of Members when this question should. again
he agitated, and this was the return which he met with from the
penion who affected to be most anxious to pockets and distri-
bute that information.---(Loud cheers.)—But why was this evi-
dence so voluminous? because all persons were invited to '••••edre-
fer their charges, not excepting even Solicitors, and then the Hose
and Learned Member thought it decent to make thii a ground of
impeachment, though originating in his own suggestiotee--(gete!)
—There was a good deal which wail questiorathle in the petitien,
on the face of it, and as the Hon. and Learned Member had tone
feeved the petition was drawn up by an attorney, and so far was
ex parte, he conjured the House to form no opinion on, it until
they saw what case the Opposite attorney could rnalte.out. Vet-hie
own part, he did not believe the facts stated in the petition. Hire
etas the case of a rear who had granted a mortgage, and who had
been served with notice to pay it up, which he (alleging binned to
be an unpracticed labouring man) neglected, not tint:l6l4.A of
consequence. The petitioner then says, he saw something, in, is
about John Doe and Richard Roe, and about staves and blt#,Aktna,
and so thought it all nonsense, which looks highly suspieiope,
When it is conceded that the petition is got up by an attorney, who
might be supposed to know and to have taught his client better..--
Then it appear this harmless and inexperienced men offers • the
mortgagee to pay off the principal to get rid of the exeeution,
which he refuses =lees he shall firat pay the roots incurrohby
bringing him there. He had felt it his duty to draw their atten-
tion to thia part of the petition, which he would have wished should
not have at present been printed, in order to introduce some far-
ther explanation on it, and prevent the Members from cornier, to any
conclusion, or forming any judgment upon an ex puree statement.
• Mr. Gaziazu. explained.
Mr. BROUGHAM begged to °berme Non the tendency
of sonic expressions dropped, that though %the evidence con-
sisted of eight or nine hundred folios it might still be imperfect
in hie as well as, other people's mind, which stewed that at.was
not so easy to please every one.. For slid, though eight folitst
possibly might be too long, it Was passible Wit 800 might be still
too short. He knew of himself there were many oanisainne.
There we're also queetioas, which though answered, obviously
Bested tle.t nth, should be put i • and to other quest ores there
were answers g ',ern which containetliniperfeee inforritatison. • One
person being iateed whether lee thought three•ntert could ''do the
business o tile Court of Clieneery, replied, no, Zeit, three alley*
Another said, that if a man competent, to, the duty, were te at .
himself anealily for six hours in each day for irix • dies la the
week to the Rettletneut at the hoeiniew of that Coati, he, eel:Ad eTe-
aecornriliell it though he bent his whetlO Mind re it ; feet :Pt%
[tested retturialy the giatetioe, bet had :My One so neat foe, tote
of his mmd ita• six Miura for six Jaye in Mai 1.141 A
iii
his Mimi he mast wee with hie lion: end Learned Friend., that
though Volnitilueuta.it waleimperfect' in inrenee iiettmuchhig the
point at issue. • • .* I
cA, ••• ••
Mr. R. SMITH difeaded the cotriaterrau .lry the ramose
stoners, ••
• Afte! • *operate. 111151 E; the petition 'Vali.

m n kqe wQr4r, i 4 reply,
ordered 'to &quintal

CORN LAWS:

Or.. W. WHITMORE now rose Un- the purpa®e of bringing

*Wad hie promised motion regarding the Corn Laws. He was
well aware of the prejudices which he should have to contend
' • • -- • with in bringing forward a motion.of so much importance, and
else in which the interests of so many individuals were unavoida-
•aellipanixed up. $e was prepared to %illness this clash of interests,
sod be knew that he should be the means of arousing the hopes of
.; party and the alarms of another. . He :was also aware that
ras,a4aie agitation of this subject at the prevent crisis, when distress and
Alashine were abroad, and-wile° the want of employment and the
"adortiess of ptoVisinna cmultined to create much positive misery
'19115 -attended with liansiderable difficulty, much inconvenience,
pad some danger. Nil as these were alk consequences which
lancet atarendgite agitation of the question ; on the •other -hand
etas good Which would ensue to the country.- at large by the
• e alelioess of the measure which he meant to propene, would out-
. iveigh the danger to be apprehended fatan the discussion of
4.. .question. Under those feelingly, , hft brotight the present
' laisteure before the House, being assured that the time was come
etbois the remission of those . restrictions which affected the Corn
Laws was lowily cal nor, He would endeavour to compress his
, etuteuaent into as narrow a compass as possible ; and considering
lam variety of topics which it meet necessarily embrace, he con-
*Weil that to be brief, and at the same tune clear and satisfactory,
• wee his greatest difficulty...4l.l,er, hear !)—The question of a free
belie had been in part admitted by his Majesty's Government, and
tee principie being iu part recognised, he hoped that the time was
nctvery distant when it would be wholly admitted.; . His Majesty's
~.eernment had certainly lent their aid to the establishment of a
- tree trade ; hut while our porta continued closed against foreign
urn, the name of a free trade was all that we should have, and
England would he the laughing-stock of the world in pretending
IQ that which in reality she did not posses. It was impossible
that with any thing like a show of justice, his Majesty's Govern-
.• • ' ;tent could stop in the midst of the liberal system which they had
idanned and partly followed. It would be the greatest injustice to
litany of our manufacturer*, if the system of a free trade were not
oeniversally adopted. Look to the silk-weavers and the glovers.
•l free trade were of advantage to other trades and manufacturers,
at would he doubly advantageous to them. A great deal of machi-
'rnery connected with those two branches dour manufactures would
'beeome utterly v.luelew from the changes which would take place
is consequence of a foreign competition. In the silk trade we had
a melancholy example of this ; but if the system of free trade
were followed up with perieveramv, in a short time the results
which might otherwise be feared, would be happily obviated.
He conceived that both his Majesty's Government and tha'House
of Commons were pledged to support the motion which he should
feel it his duty to propose. He conceived also thet.every person •
Who voted on the Bill to authorise the importation of foreign
• silks, had thereby pledged himself to support a free trade in its
ittoit extended sew. What Gentleman, he would ask, would
. turn round and say, " We have adopted that measure to be sure, but
we will not carry the measure further into effect ?" Such conduct
'mild be, to say the least of it, most inconsistent ; and its effects,
he need scarcely add, would be most unjust. One of the greatest
'advantages which would result from the opening of our ports to
foreign grain, and otherwise adopting the principles of a free
would be the reciprocity of feeling which would follow
ti.tween Great Britain and those ports to which her vessels would
• trade. •'Tkisahe repeated, would be of the greatest advantage to Great
I:tritaam. But that that advantage, whatever it might be, would be
assatingent upon treaties with foreign powers, which would be liable
to the caprice of, time powers, and to a variety of interruptions
oeverwhich oeither party to any of the treaties could be said to
'Wes any effectual controul. In the view, then, which he took of
at, he did not look with satisfaction at a trade carried on with
say state, and resting solely on the principle of reciprocity of
dealing with that state. He would prefer to see an extrusion
of the principles of free trade, which they hurl heard so warmly
advocated by Minister., but which they carried to only a very li-
zuited extent. Let these principles be extended to corn and to
sugar...--(hear, hear !)—as well as to other articles. If the prin-
ciple of free trade were to be adopted at all, it. should not be a
partial out, but should- be carried to the extent he had said, or
Lot at all. A mere reliance on what other countries might be
disposed to do he the way of reciprocity would not be sufficient ;
itawould!be necessary fur us to carry our principles into effect
befureetheynouhl be in a condition to net upon a reciprocal plan.
The severe, rainiest ruinous operation of our restrictive Corn Laws
etpon foreign Socha was, he could assure the House, much greater
than:Was generally known ; and one of the moat cogent arguments
ire tevotir of a free trade in corn was to be derived from the evils
which our preeentlaws inflicted on those states, and which would
La a period of scarcity produce a terrible reaction upon ourselves.
lfie aro.uld assert, that the Corn Law which was passed
in LW* . country in the year 1818, was a greater evil
on Nand, illantzie, America, and the other places from
which, we usually imported corn, than they, or any country,
had ever sufferal front the anti-commercial and
decrees sf r, Buonaparto. This wets not an assertion- resting
!snerely,on his own opinion. It was fully borne out by docu-'
meats to, which he would 'refer, from most intelligent pereams
tent froth this nouihry, and he would admit most properly
*ant instal this, country, to aacertain the general state of the
ewe couuteite, and the effect which our corn laws bad produces!
ea them., Thus it would appear, that while we were boasting of
tba principles of free trade, and to a certain extent carrying some
of them- into effect by means of an enlightened legislature, we in-
dicted 4 icier calamity on those countries than they had ever
juifitred from the Berlin and Milan ilecreea. In support of these
alsertioasehe would crave the indulgence of the House, whilst he
reed n,few extracts from the very able report made to Government
brbir. Jacob on the state of the corn countries of Europe. It
would appear frhin these, that the effects of our corn laws bad ex-
tended themselves to every country in Europe from which this
kiegtiona had formerly imported. He regretted that the report
was notain the hands of Members, and noticing but the fear of post-
raiagehis motion to an inconvenient period could have induced
shun. to bring it on until the report •was ready. Here the Hon.
M&.-nber read cameral extracts from the work. In the first of these,
the writer dwelt upon the misery which he had witnessed in those
countries iu this north of Europe front which we had heretofore im-
ported corn, atid from which we should have to look for supplies
in case of any future emergency. It should be observed, that
Mr. Jacob, took his route front Danraic, through Poland, and
on through, Wallachia, Moldavia, from thence through Austria,
Ilaiarie, cola so to Paris. Mr. Jacob stated, that in every
Place through which he plumed, the landowners and farmers
were loud in their complaints of distress, and those complaints,
her added, were too general to admit of any doubt of their reality;
ant the appearance of every place convinced him that the cam-
Plaiate niece were fully justified by the loses sustained. In
another pert of pus report, Mr. Jacob spoke of the great falling
oe in thee quantity of corn grown by the change of culture.
WWI: tracts of country which bud heretofore been employed
in the Production of corn, were now turned into pastures fur
er leA wholly neglected, the former occupiers and renters
Laving been completely ruined. An instance was mentioned of
taco nobleman, who had many thousand acres of land under
talage, but who had, by being shut out from the demand which
this English market lied afforded, changed his whole system, and
turned them into 'culture for rearing Merino sheep, and from the
profitable returns selreadyderived to hint from the sale of the wool,
it was most inepro!jable that he would ever again return to the cul-
tivation of grain. At the time Mr. Jacob saw the lands, there were
not two scree of them under grain. Ile (Mr. Whitmore) would not
p..irsue that extreet farther, but would tern to another part of the
report, whit:bespoke of the change which bad recently taken plae
Le rents, ana,the general Value of land, in some of the foreign
corn countries. Mr. Jacob observed, that he win' infbrintsl that
tae value of Lend at Cracow had been greatly reduced. Those
lands had formerly been let at from fourteen-pence to eight-pence
per acre, but at the time he saw them, even those spud! sums
could not he obtained for them. An instance was given of one
searderuan, • who had leased a large extent of land, unumnting
7,000 h acres, for the yearly rent of 8501. When Mr. Jacob
wait In the country (Poland we believe), the term of six
years, for which they had been let, had expired, and the
siren Lath were again leased to the former tenant (for no
other could be got to take them) for the small sum of 110/.
a year. Be could, were he to pursue the extracts, give
~aundant evidence of the great distress to which the cultivators
ell turn had been reincad in those' countries by the shutting up
of the English ports. Thba Wass 'a part of 'the subject to which
ho would again advert Wire he sat down ; for it was worthy of
the most grave copaidaretion, tea was another directly arising
out of it, namely, the diffieulty which might hereafter exist, in
cause unforateao euareity, of procuring a sufficient supply of
f cod fur the people. But before he came tee this part of the
Minas:et, be beg* to he allowed to show, diet without re-
firance to the question of free trade as a general principle, this
racuntry had enjoyed and thriven under what might be virtu-
/Lily Awned a free trade i. corn. He would not go further
book abau the year 1773. From that year to the year me,
tam trade in corn continued free, or at least subject only to so low
acaluty act loircely to deserve the name of restriction,
,the duty to
which it was generally liable not being -more than 6th. the quar-
ter, He did not mean to deny that we at all times hail a corn
law; but it Was a law from the period he hail just mentioned,
by. which only a very low ..amount was charged. Thui there
were, by the Act of 1713, three scales of duties, one !ugh duty,
and twn low deities, lice high was 24e. 3d., which wits charged on
foreign corn only when corn was in the home market es low as
310 a. When it came to ale., the duty of 2s. 6d. was charged;
and when it rose to afis. the duty was only 6d. From this pe-
'64 haarever, until 1791, the price of corn at home continued

. -
an low, that oily the low duty, and more frequently the lowest
one of 6d. was.ehargett. In 1791 an alteration took places....
The first duty continued as it was before, but the second of two
shillings and sixpence was to he charged when corn was at 50e.
.When it came to 545., then foreign corn might be imported at
n.duty of 6d. Again, corn rose, and the low duties came into
Operation. So that with the exception of two years, from this
' period to 1804, foreign corn 'might he imported at 2a. 6d., end
more frequently at 611. duty. In 1804; the highest duty was
laid on the import of foreign coro; when our own sold at 465.
the second duty at 60e., and the lowest at 668. ; but the price at
• home continued so high, that from thatperiod up to 1815; the. low
duty was Charged. During -this 'mind, from 1773 to 1815,
what NO been the progress of the country, in arts, menuthetures,
in coma tree, in populetion, and in wealth ? Had she not made
' advances in all these, unexampled in the history of nat'ons ? Was
there any nation in the world which bad made advances to general
commercial prosperity with equal rapidity? Was he not, then,
justified in saying that a free trade in corn, or what was almost
equal-to a free trade, might be carried on. without injury to the
agricultural classes? Fur let it be remembered, that waste and
poor lands were yearly brought into cultivation. These consi-
derations went a great Way on the question, and if maturely con-
sidered, would tend to allay the alarms of those who feared • that
the power of importing corn at a low.duty Would throw the poor
lands out of cultivation, those very poor lands which were
brought into cultivation when foreign corn was imported at a
duty merely nominal. If the agriculturist was uninjured,
and not merely so, but in a thriving condition during fo-
reign importation, then, what reason was there to fear that it.
would be otherwise at present? He now came to another.
part of the question, which he touched with great reluctance;
but it was necessary that he should come to it, in order more clearly
to point out what lie considered as one of the greatest evils of the
present system. He would lay it down as a position, which he
should be able satisfactorily to prove, that the Corn Laws of this
country had not only destroyed. the external trade in corn, but had
given a blow to our internal trade in that article, from which, if
timely remedies were not provided, it would be difficult, if not
altogether impossible, far it to recover. He knew he should he
told that he had already predicted very fatal consequences as likely
to flow front the want-of a free trade in corn. Ile had so. He
stated it in 1893, he stated it in 1824, and he now repeated the
statement, that unless some change were made in the present fatal
system of our Corn Laws, the country would at 'dine day have to
deplore the unfortunate result of them. He did not say at what
time.—(A laugh.)—lf the House ells hint the favour to hear him
• to She end, they would find that his assertion was not made on light
ground, but rested on a very strong case. In MS he had predict-
ed that very serious and dangerous consequences must neces-
sarily follow from the continuance of the present Corn Laws. The
data on which he then went were most correct, and the more be
considered them the more was he convinced of their accuracy. It
would not of course be expected that he should point out the exact
time when three results were to happen. It would be sufficient if
he showed that the direct tendency of the Corn Laws, in their ope-
ration on the external and internal corn trade of England, was to
produce an insufficient supply, should there be unhappily a failure
of the home crops, even for one season. The general practice of'
the corn trade at home was to reserve a stock on hand. This stock
might on the average be calculated at four months' consumption of
the whole country, or about four millions of quarters. He took
the general average of consumption of the year at 12 millions of
quarters, and adding a Million for seed, the 'whole annual con-
, eumption might be taken at 13,000,000 of quarters. Now a
country setting out with this quantity of 4,000,000 of quarters
stock on hand, and having a corn trade by which it was made to
depend almost wholly on its own supply,. might at no very dis-
tant period, be so run out as to have that stock exhausted. The
adriallge of having the stock at all, would be to make the
surplus of one year meet the deficiencies of another. Those
surpluses were in general reserved by the speculations of
persons extensively engaged in the corn trade, whose utility
to the country was very considerable Now, if circumstances
occurred which should cause the leading speculators in corn to
decline the trade, they would' have the effect of causing a gradual
diminution of the stock in reserve, as the same care would not be
taken to provide fur an apprehended scarcity. But these circum-
stances had in part occurred, and were in progress at the present
moment. It could be proved that there was a gradual decline of
speculations in corn, and it must be the case ; for when there
was a gradual and continued decline in prices, the speculators
must necessarily lose. This wax the case during the period of
agricultural distress ; and the following scale of prices, from the
years 1817 to 1823, would thew that the speculators in those
years mart have lost considerably. The average prices of the
,
quarter of wheat were in tne years-
-1817 - 975. Od. 1820 - - • 655. 10d.
18.18 8,1. 1821 - - - 648. Sd.
1819 - r We. Oa. 1822 - • 4:13. 341.
In 1823 the price*. rose ; but then it should be recollected that
the speculators hail been losing very considerably during the
years he luul meutioneil. Besides the effect of those losses,
there was another muse which nettle the corn-merchant dis-
inclined to speculate—it was his apprehension of a change in
the present corn laws, front a conviction of the necessity of such a
change, and a belief that Ministers could not continue much longer
to allow such a system to disgrace our commercial regulations.—
Another reason which lessened the speculation in British. corn was,
the quantity of foreign corn allowed to be bonded here, and the
great difference between the prices of the two. Corn in bond
might be bought at from 20s. to SON., while that in the market
could not be bought for less then 50s. or 60s. Of course, in the
uncertainty as to what might be done about granting a free trade,
a merchant would choose rather to speculate in the article which
was cheapest ; because, if a change took place in the corn-laws,
his speculations in the cheap corn would be successful, while
in the high priced tiny would be ruinous.- 'lle (Mr. Whit-
more) had made inquiries on One subject from some of the
most respectable peptone in the corn trade; and he was assured
by them, that front the mutes • he tad mentioned, the specula-
tions in corn were few, and' to a very swill extent, compared
with former years. All those with whom he had consulted seem-
ed to be firmly convinced of the truth of the position with which
he bad met out—that the operatiou of the corn, laws of this coun-
try had not only destroy al, She vita-nal trade in corn, but had
given a blow to the integtaistradn,. in that article, from which
it would with difficulty ,rectrier ; tut from which there was no
chance of its recovery, if. the laws were allowed to remain in
their present state. Now, if this were so, we might come upon-
a period of, positive detitiency in the harvest, and what then
would be • the situation of the
.coontry, when, from a change in
the culture of land abroad,' we could not hope for any supply
from those places to which we usually had recourse in times
of such difficulty? He trembled to think of a scarcity of hu-
man food under such circumstances. He did not mean to say
that such an event was to he expected immediately. That
would be too bold en assertion fur any man to hazard.; but he
did confidently state, that we were now in a situation in which a
sudden deficiency of even one harvest might be attended with
most disastrous effects. The stock in the hands of dealers
was, he had reason to believe, very low. As to the farmers,
be would admit he knew little about them, but any thing that
was 'known of their trassactione iu rorn, effordeei no Tiroof that
the stock in the couutry was pot low. It might, and he hoped it
Would happen, that the approachine harvest and the next after that
might, by abundant crops, temaiderlbly add to the idea 'in hand,
but still we should he in.ustate, living as it YO'to from, band to.
mouth, and placing ohreelvee in circumstances greet peril, which
would be increased every year that we allowed to pass without a
mgr in our present system of Corn Laws. It wax morally im-
possible to alter a trade which had been carried on for several
years without inflicting an evil which would be deeply felt by
hundreds and thousands; and the House might rely on it, that if
circumstances should occur, and occur they undoubtedly would,
though be would not say when, to render it necessary to have
resouree again to the trade in foreign corn, they would have
deeply to deplore the blow which that trade had received by
the Corn Law of 1815—the most absurd, the most barbarous
measure, and the most opposed to principles of sound com-
mercial or national policy that had ever emanated from a
legidative body calling itself enlightened. The only hope he
heti of seeing a speedy termination to this absurd system was
founded on its absurdity, for be thought it impossible that
Englund could continue much longtr to sanction a law so preg-
nant with danger to its best interests. It watt still possible to
avert this danger, but it could be done only by a speedy alteration
of the law. If thut were not done, he feared they would live to
regret the consequences. He would now ctune to the alteration
which, in his opinion, ought to be made ; and without going into
all the (lentils which might be necessary if a bill for the alteration
were before the House, be would suggest that a protecting duty of
10s. per quarter Amid he allowed, conjointly with another, but
a temporary Measure, increasing that duty should the price in
the home market he at once considerably reduced. He would
suppose the price in the market 555. ; the general and perma-
sent protecting duty would be 10s. ; but the temporary mea-
tier,' would have the 10s, increased to 15s. on foreign corn, when
English wined was at 50s. When at 455. he would inereaso the
duty to 20s. ; and when corn came to 405., he would have the
duty 255. It would undoubtedly be most desirable that every
nostste should be adopted for preventing en alarm among the agrie
culturists. He knew that the very mention of opening the ports
would create such alarm ; and be would therefore provide a tem-
porary measure for their security, until the chance of returning to
a free corn trade was in progress. It "was with this. view that

he would recommend the higher protecting duties for a short
period. This would be the more necessary, as our corn
laws of this country had produced restrictions on the corn-
trade in other countries. This was the case in France, Spain,
and Portugal, the markets of,Rhi,da, when.ourportirtitesdiuti`
were glutted with inimenae :quantity
,f cord ,which would
otherwise have readied our ports 'A corn-lziw was
therefore ens teal in those countries in their own defence. ;'Now,
toprevent even the chance of a. sudden glut from coming .into
the market while the change Was being made, and to allay the
fears of the agriculturists, he would give the higher duties as
a temporary measure. He thought it a main object that the
change should be effected with as little alarin
a 9 posxiUle~.—
The agricultural interests said, that if the ports, should be
thrown open, we should be deluged with foreign corn. He
thought he should be able to show that this could not possibly
be the case, by a reference to the amount of the importation of
foreign corn at former periods. Indeed, lie was convinced that
the quantity of corn which world he imported into this country, if
the ports were to be opened, would not be large. He would..pro-
ceed to show what had been the importation of foreign corn from
the year 1800 to the year 1820, and he had selected this period
,because during it the importation had been larger than et any
other; indeed, during five years of it, a very great scarcity pre-
vailed, which camsed.the prices to rise to a very enormous amount.
In 1800 the average price was 110 s. sd. ; in 1801 it was 115 s.
lid. ; in 1810 it was 103.3 d. ; in 1817 it was 91,1. ; in 1818
it was 88a. Bd. ; and the consequence was that we had corn sent to
us from every quarter of the'globe. The quantity of foreign wheat
imported from foreign parts to this country, during the period he
had alluded to, was as follows :-
Quarters Bushels. Average price.
a. d.
1800 - • 1,263,771 1 - - 110 5
1801 - • 1,424,241 4 - - 115 11
1802 • - 538,144 4 - - 67 9
1803 - - 312,438 0 - 57. 1
1804 - 391,068 2 - - 60 5
1805 - 836,747 I • - h 7 1
1806 • - 207,879 0 - '76 9
1807 • - 339,835 6 - 73 1
1808 . 410192 I - - 11 '
1809 - 337,863 3 • 94. 5
1810 - - 1,439,613 6 - - 103
1811 - ' 188,563 b - - 91, 5
1812 129,867 0 - - 122 8
1813 - - 341,846 0 - 106 6
1814 - - • 626,745 6 72 1
1815 - - 194,931 3 - 63 8
1816 • - 210,860 76 2
1817 - • 1,030,829 3 _ 94 0
1818 - - 1,586,030 G _ 8
1819 - - 471,607 2 - - 72 3
1820 - - 501,731 2 - 65 10

12,577,029 1 1,774 4
During the five years of. scarcity, between 6,000,000 and
7,000,000 of quarters had been imported, which was half as
much as had been imported during the whole twenty-one years.
From this statement, the average annual amount of corn im-
ported appeared to be 599,906 quarters, and the average price
84s. 6d. ; and it must also be recollected that this price was esti-
mated in a currency which was depreciatA during this period,
and that until the year 1815 there was in reality no obstruction
by law as to the importation of corn. He had also examined into
the different sources from whence foreign corn was drawn, which
would chew that it was only the very high price which had in-
duced the richer countries to aflbrd us any very abundant supply.
The annual average amount of wheat imported into this country,
from the year 1800 to the year 1820, was asfollows:—

_
Quarters. Bushels.
Russia - . - - 6,373 6
Sweden - - .. - 12,275 5
Prussia, including Poland - 204,667 6I
Germany - • - 37,092 b
United Suter - - - 87,376 6
Cl11:11111 • - - 23,040 4 '
Holland . - - 40,033 5

Flanders - 29,530 1
France - - 23,071 2 -
Denmark and Norway - - 18,956 0
If from this statement we deducted the ymrs of scarcity, it
would clearly appear that it was only a poor country which was
capable of exporting any considerable quantity of corn. From
an investigation into the amount of the exports of wheat and
rye from Dantzie • and Elbing during the last 166 years, it
would appear that the average amival amount of taw was
215,000 quarters; as the amount of the exports during the
first half of this period had been nearly as great as what it
had, been during the, last half, thirii Might be taken to be a very
fair estimate, especially when it was -considered that during a'
portion of this last period, the demand front Franca and Hol.
land had been greatly increased on account of: Abe aicierdity
which prevailed. He had already stated, that whetuthe. Oat:
of corn was exorbitantly high here, it , certainly induced tb--
reign countries to send us a
,lirge quantity; but unless the
inducement of a very high price were held out to them, we shoUld,
only get from foreign countries the corn which greiv in the vicini-
ty of navigable rivers. After investigating different retunia and
different accounts relative to foreign countries, he thought we
might safely conic to this conclusion—that if the price here were
from 50s. to 605., the general average quantity of foreign corn
which would be imported into this country would not exceed
400,000 quarters, whereas our average annual consumption was
13,000,000 qrs. He conceived this clearly slimed that we had no
reason to be very apprehensive with regard to the quantity of corn
which would be imported. He would proceed to inquire whether
there was any reason for alarm as to the price. At present the price
of corn abroad was ruinously low, which had caused almost the
whole of Poland to be thrown out of cultivation, but this had been
the necessary consequence of the falling off of the trade ; for, sup-
pose America, Russia, and other countries, which we were at pre-
sent in the habit of supplying with manufactures, were to declare
that they would not take any more of our goods, such a declara-
tion would necessarily cause an enormous depreciation in the price
of these articles. Let us look at Mr. Jacobs' account as to the
price of Polish wheat. He stated, that the inferior description of
wheat, which, however, Was generally consumed at home and not
exported, might he sent to London at 435., the original cost, with-
out the expences and loss attendant on exportation, being 245. :
but to conic to a more essential point, viz., the better species of
Polish wheat, which was usually exported,' and which, if the ports
were thrown open, would be brotight into this country, Mr.
Jacobs admitted that any calculation on the subject must neces-
sarily be somewhat loose, but after the moat accurate investigation
into the matter, a.e calculated that the original cost of wheat
brought into Warsaw amounted to twenty-eight
and that the other expencea and allowances for loss, &c.
attendant on getting it "conveyed to London, would amount to 20s.
more, making in the whole 48a. The original cost of the best wheat
at Cracow, he estimated ut considerably lower, via. at 235. ; and he
calculated that the expencea and allowance for loss, &c. in getting
this wheat to London, would amount to 235. 6d. more, making in
the whole 455. 6d. /is the beat wheat was generally brought to
London in ships from the Baltic instead of in. English, the risk was
ado thereby materially increased. InlBo2, 1803, and 1804, the
freight was 10s. per qr. ; but if thaamount of the importation into
this country were to be increased, it was the opinion of Mr. Jacobs
that the charge 14 freight would 440 heinateriAly increased. Mr. j
Jacobs had also given it as his opinion? in his report furnished to the
Lords of the Tr.asury, that if a duty in this country of 104. or 12e.
per quarter were imposed, it soul I nut allow of such a profit,
on a supposition of the price being from 60s. to 645., us to in-
duce any great .exertion to increase cultivation in the districts
bordering on the Vistula; that the prospect of a rise occasioned
by war, by a winter so severe as to injure vegetation, or a rainy
harvest, might induce those of a speculative turn to increase their
growth of wheat, but those who had that turn and had the means
of indulging it he conceived to be so few, that they would pro-
duce no considerably increase in the general surplus; and he
saw no reason to believe that, with suit a duty as he hail men-
tioned for Engand, and a price of fi inn 60s. to 645., and with
some similar regulations in France, the surplus corn pro-
duced in Poland, including all the countries near enough to
the Vistula to send their corn to that stream, would materially
in common seasons, or very much, if at all, exceed the average
prude.* of that country. The greater part of this would pro-
bahly be whet ; and it the duty were alike on all the various
quantities of that grain; none would be sent here but that part
which was the dro ct pay
ist,heaviest, and whitest. The inferior de-
acription would n for importation unksis the average in
England wore much more than 645. Such was the opinion of
Mr. Jacol s : he allowed, indeed, that it was only opinion,
but when it was considered that Mr. Jacobs was originally de-
cidedly in favour of the corn laws, and that lie had been di-
rected by Government to examine accurately into this subject,
he thought his opinion must necessarily have very great weight
with the House. If a price of about 555. could be obtained
here, he did not anticipate that there would be any very mate-
rial alteration as to the produce or price of the present period: in-
deed, the agriculturists would get all they had a right to ex-
pect. He hims. 4 w, s an agriculturist, and he felt persuaded
that no one connected with the landed interest, who would take
into crnsieeration the increased security and stability which
such a measure would afford to his property, would have any
reason to complain. If it did cause rents to fall a little, it I

would at the same time render money more valuable; so that
when we came to look at the balance-sheet, it would be pretty
near the same as at present. Ile implored the House, to consi-
der in what, state tht country was at present, and what might
'l;ebiffe r ntrioust coreiNuenees if the price of labour in this
totriltfy-i4re to be much greater than what it was at pietent.
landlords to
,consider whether the stability and
sechrity which their, property would acquire from this measisre,
'Weill& amply' compensate for any slight reduction which it
might possibly eau:se, their rents. if he had en this as
well as on former ,occusious dwelt on this measure, it was
beiiiuse lie felt More Arinly.couvinced of its expediency. He could
'not say what would be the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers or
of the House respecting it, but as long as he had the honour of a
seat hi that House, he would continue to press its fulfilment,, and
he flattered himself that now when a more liberal line of policy
hail begun to be adopted with regard to other matters, that it
would at no distant period be also extended to this. He conclud-
ed by moving that the House resolve itself into a Committee for
the purpose of considering the expediency of making some altera-
tion in the corn laws.

Mr. G. PHILLIPS rof4 to second the motion ; but the noise
in the House prevented his observations from being distinctly heard.
The agriculturists, it wo stated, were entitled to high prot!cting
duties, in consequence of the high taxes which they paid to the
state. But were the agriculturists the only class of society liable
to the payment of heavy taxes ? Did the gentlemen forget the le-
gacy duty, the stamp duties, and others to which the manufac-
turers were subject ?' The Honourable Member entered into some
calculations, from which it appeared that the cotton manufacturers
alone paid two millions for the advantage of the landed interest.—
He thought the effects of repealing the present protecting duties
would be much less than the fears of one party or the hopes of the
other had apprehended.. He considered that the agriculturists of
this country were much better able to support a competition with
those of other countries than they themselves imagined, and
that a much, lower duty than that which exists would
be abundantly sufficient to enable them to enter the field
on equal terms with the continental agriculturists. It was stated
by Mr. gacobs, that on the continent four-fifths, or nine-tenths,
of the population were employed in the production of food, whilst
in England one-half only way engaged in agriculture. He was
himself of opinion that not inure than one-third of the people of
this country was so employed, With these facts before us, we can-
not suppose that Englund is so unequal to a competition with
the Continent in the production of grain. The Honourable Mem-
ber, in continuation, asserted his conviction, that no change would
produce so much advantage as an application to the commerce in
grain of those principles of free trade • which had been already
applied to other branches of commerce. He thought that by
this means, that fluctuation in prices might be prevented, which
had proved co ruinous. When he was last; in Lancashire, he had
an opportunity of observing with what feeling the Corn Laws were
regarded by the manufacturers, of that county, the most skilful in
Europe, and who were every day introducing new improvements
into every branch of machinery and manulacture.. These men
felt acutely the force of th 4 Corn Lawn, and were by the opera-
tion of them obliged to emigrate in great numbers to America,
where labour was constant and profitable, and provisions were cheap.
Ile hoped that the Right Hon. Gentleman, Mr. Iluskisson,
would, next year, redeem the pledge which he had given, and
extend the application of the principles, of free trade to the com-
merce in grain. The late Mr. Ricardo, Mr. Blake, and Mr.
Tooke, had entered into some calculations from which they had
inferred, that '7s. 6d. would be a sufficient protecting duty. He
would prefer 10s. At all events he thought that the duty should
rather be too high than too low.

Mr. HUSKISSON. Sir, in rising to reply to the observa-
tions of the Hon. Member, I do not intend to follow him through
the various and important details into which he hag entered.
However much I may have been individually obliged by the in-
struction which the speech of the Hon. Member is calculated to
afford, my only object is to dissuade the House from entering
at present into any discussion of the Corn Laws, inasmuch as
it can only terminate in inconvenience and disappointment. It
appears to me that a general understanding has existed, that it
Would not be desirable to enter during the present Session upon the
discussion of certain questions with reference to their final adjust-
ment. This understanding has certainly not been founded upon any
preconcerted agreement, hut from a general coincidence of opinion
among all parties that such a discussion cannot, in the present cir-
cumstances of Parliament, and of the country, render justice to
the great questions themselves, or to the public interests. That,
therefore, it will be a wiser course to leave these important ques-
tions, as it were, in abeyance, until they Can obtain in a new
Parliament that full 411(1 mature consideration to which they are
entitled. The Hon. Alember for liridgenorth has stated, that the
absence "of certain informution respecting the intentions of Govern-
. limit in regard to the corn laws, has cheesed the internal %pecula-
tion in grain. I beg leave to remind, the House that my Right
lion. rriemni near me (the Secretary for Foreign Affairs) declared,
in 'his place, at, the commencement of the Session, that hie Ma-
lorn
tllizs...dbeectraetiPonarulizeillmmt
ddeuriningthethsese
sphrnesseonfttiSieemyeiaron
jesty's Government did, not intend to bring the question of the
S 421. V.
if, Sir, there is any one question more than another which it is
unfit for, us to entertain—which it is unfit for us to agitate iu this
House—ewhich it is unfit for us to set afloat in the,c.ountry, unless
we are prepared to go through with it—unless we think that the
time has arrived—unleiS we think that the present opportunity is
a fit and convenient opportunity for discussion--that question is
the most momentous one of the present state and system of our
Corn Laws. I say momentous, Sir, for it cowmen, itself with
the subsistence end comforts of the great mass of the population,
it connects itself with the well-being and prosperity of a class
most numerous, and iu many respects, most important, either by
their right of property in the soil, or by their capital employed in
the cultivation •of the soil—l mean that clan which depends for
their situation in society upon the cultivation and produce of the
land. But when I state that this question is a momentous question,
and surrounded with difficulty, I beg leave to ask, are these
not difficulties which grow out of, the situation in which this
country has been placed since the law which regulate the Foreign
Corn Trade was changed ? It is no easy matter, or trifling under-
taking at any time, but more especially at this advanced period
of the Session, and in the present state of Parliament, to con-
sider that, which must be maturely considered before any sound
conclusion can be formed upon this question—to consider what
is the amount of the direct charge upon the land, in conse-
quence of the peculiar establishments of the country. It is ad-
mitted on all hands that the landed interest, or those employed
in the cultivation of the soil, are entitled to compensation and pro-
tection. I own, Sir, the amount of diet compensation is not the
only ground of difficulty with me; fur it must be chew to every
one, that, if for some time ft ruinous system in any branch of
foreign trade has been pursued, and I, for one, have no hesita-
tion in saying that which I have frequently said in other places
as well as in this House, that a systeM of absolute prohibition,
in this, or in other branch of foreign trade, is a vicious amid
defective system.—(Cheers.)—But I say, that if a ruinous sys-
tem has for some time been acted upon, it becomes our duty
cautiously to tread back our steps with reference to time misc.-
quences which such a systeM has entailed upon us ; that course
of proceeding, I contend, is souud policy, not only for the inter-
ests of the parties more immediately affected, but for the inter-
ests of the consumers of corn. Let not Gentlemen deceive them-
selves by entertaining an opinion that any sudden change, which
would affect the pecuniary engagements of the landed interests
—which would materially affect the value of leases—materially.
affect all descriptions of landed settlements, and which sudden
change would be an act of injustice towards the parties who
are the objects of the change—would be productive of any im-
mediate relief.—(Hear, hear !)—On the contrary, I am fully per-
suaded that such sudden changes, independently of the injustice
which they would work towards those parties, would do more
than any other measure that could,be devised in time present state
of the country, to aggravate the difficulties that already exist.—
(Loud cheering.)—l am as anxious as any. one to bring about the
consideration of this important question, but I ern also anxious
that we should not enter upon that consideration, until an op-
portunity•more favourable than the present, in many respects,
shall have arrived. lum anxious to bring it under the considera-
tion of Gentlemen, placed under circumstances different from
those whom I have now the honour to address.—Neither are
the difficulties which I have already stated, many of which
are of a general nature, the only difficulties. One occurs to me,
which, if there was no other, would at this moment render it
inexpedient for us to enter upon the consideration of this
question. My Honourable Friend has occupixl much of the
time of this House, in referring to a document not before the
House.—(Hear, hear !)_That document relates to one part of
the subject—it relates to the change in the state of the corn growers
of the North of Europe—to the change in their state of cultivation,
and their opacity to supply corn, in consequence of the inter-
dictory law of France, as to the trade in corn. The accumulation
of corn in the northern' ports, is the result of that prohibition
which has brought corn to a ruinous price in those markets. As
long as this state of things exists in those ports, it must form one of
the elements for our consideration. After the last Session of Par-
liament, I directed Mr. Jacobs (a gentleman of whose talents and
abilities I cannot speak too highly), the gentleman who prepared
the report to which the Hon. Member has referred, to proceed to
those countries to procure information upon the subject. The in-
formation furnished by that report, is not, perhaps, in all respects,
perfect, is not conclusive: but I must say, that as far as it goes, it
is a valuable addition to the information which we already possess,

i

and that when we come to the consideration of the question, we
will find the information contained in the report (which ewers
Hon. Member will shortly have the opportunity of reading, and
which I bare not yet carefully read), of considerable importance.
Exclusive of the report, there is a valuable appendix, not yet is
print, and which contains all the information which he has
been able to collect. That circumstance is a reason why wt
should postpone the consideration of this question, until the coun-
try shall have the opportunity—until the Hon. Members of this
Howie shall have the opportunity—of reading this report, which,
if read in the absence of the exaggerated fears which now per-
vade the country upon this question—in the absence of that pre-
judice (natural enough, I admit), which would reject the dearest
testimony, will enable us to come with increased facilities to
the final adjustment of this most important measure. Nor is this
all. I think it impossible, according to the view that I take of
the subject, that in any system of Corn Laws that we can devise,
we can exclude from our consideration the question of price.
The consideration of price connects itself with the state of our
monetary system, and I ask, ought the House to enter upon the con-
sideration of such a subject iu the present feverish and unsettled
state of our currency.—(Loud cheers.)—Crin any man say that,
considering all the feelings raised throughout the country in con-
sequence of the state of the monied market, 'the present is I
fit moment to legislate wisely upon a subject, from which we
cannot dismiss the consideration of the monetary system, which
is the soul and element of price.—(Cheers.).—Tbat part of the
subject is deserving of the most mature consideration, and it
is, therefore, in my opinion, highly desirable 'that we should
not now proceed to the discussion. I think, • SW, I have stated
some general grounds, which at all times 'make it desirable
that we should have more leisure, that we should have a better
opportunity than we have at present of entering upon the
consideration of this subject ; but I freely own that I cannot ima-
gine any moinent'inore unfit than the present, when every body
must be aware of the advanced state of the public business (at
least of the public business as far as his iNfajesty'e GoVernment are
concerned), when every body is looking forward to the impending
election—(Hear, hear !)—at a moment when every Hon. Mem-
ber feels it his duty to address his constituents. This, sir, is not
a period at which a question ought to be agitated, which must have'
the effect of producing an excitement in the public mind—on ex-
citement which might interfere most materially with the fair, im-
partial, and dispasSionate consideration which a subject of this im-
portance might to undergo in the British House of Commons. Ife.
Sir, I had no other reason against the consideration of this 'quo,-
(ion, I would object to the time. • When the Honourable
Gentleman taunts me with having departed from the pledge
which I gave last year, I can only say that that pledge, Sf the Hon.
Gentleman pleases so to call what I stated last SeSsion in this
House, is nothing more than a pledge given by nay other servant
of the Crown under certain circumstances. Does the Honour-
able Gentleman mean to say, that it is peremptory upon me not to
look at the circumstances of the period at which the pledge was
made, and the circumstances of the period at which lam called
upon to redeem it?—( Hear, hear!)--What, I beg to
ask, was that
pledge? I then stated, that if I should be able to procure all the
House
should, which I thought I should want, and if this
should, at the cOmmencement of the Session, proceed to the in-
vestigation of the subject, I did trust, that in the course of the
Session, we should be able to arrive at a satisfactory conclueion.---
Now, I ask, has both or either of these events happened? We
have no information, except what has been called for by a vote of
this House during the last Session, neither has any investiga
tion been proceeded with at the beginning, nor proposed, until
thialate period. I am, however, disposed to admit, that power-
furas my reasons are, in my view of the subject, against making
any change at present in the corn laws, they are not con-
elusive to my mind, if any change can be made which would have
the effect of affording immediate and specific relief to the distress ,
which pervades Manchester and other manufacturing districts.
Whatever may be the inconvenience of departing from the con-
clusions which I have arrived at—whatever maybe the length to
which the discussion of this subject might pridong the Session of
Parliament, still, if any means for affording immediate relief
could be devised; I would say, for the sake of obtaining Opecifie
relief, let
_us apply ourselves to the difficulty of the
(Cheers.)--But I deny, Sir, that any means of immediate relief
to the manufacturing classes can be derived by the discussion of
this question at the present moment ; and after the most matureconsideration that I can give the subject, I am prepared to
dare that if it were in the power of man, if it were in the power
of the Legislature, or if by any force of events, we could sud-
denly and materially reduce. the -price of wheat, or of the neces-
terially aggrayate, the distress, . and destroy the best hope
early termination,—(Loud. Cheers.)—for in the present tal..
of the fi,reign markets, the difficulties •of the manufacturers te.ut
find the best relief in the unimpaired 1'; pewee of coneuirqition by
the internal consumers.. be understood a;
Let.' me, not, Sir,
making this atateinent,' as inconsistent with the view l':hiCh
Cora
have taken in this House . system of the
Laws. I think at of h'
.as) em pro 'baton in this, as
trous
well- as in ell other braochis of foreign: trader a inons f
system, • and with regard to a prohibition' in the trade
corn, I think it a tenfold greater evil than a prohibition upon
any other branch of trade • but I say, Sir, that any sudden
should 1_ o
its
crease,
change in the 'situation of trade;
agricultural classes, at a moment
of distrees among the manufacturing classes, would greatly in-
instead of diminishing that distress. I don't think it pru-
dent, I don't think it advisable, at the present moment, to go into
details respecting the alterations, which, in my view of the ques-
tion, I think ought to be made in the syetom of the Corn Laws ;
but I have no difficulty in saying, that I am decidedly opposed
to any system which would establish either a permanent, or
occasional, prohibition to the trade in corn. I say, the Corn
Laws ought to proceed upon this. priseiple—to correct as far
as possible the inequality ef the mimeos and to support the agri-
culture of the country, and it iseseith referenee to those two
principles, that I shall feel.-it to be my duty,: in whatever situa-
tion I may he placed, to sepport any measure which may be in-
troduced, and which, in my opinion, would most effectually
secure those objects. lam sure the House would not think
it right if I were now to go into the Ipe to the mode which ap-
pears to me. most expedient for effff those objects, because,
by doing so, I might expose myself to great misconception ; be-
cause, upon a subject like this, which involve such immense in-
terests, which is sure to _he viewed with so many prejudices, so
many fears, and so many alarms, the House must be aware that it
is very difficult for persons conveeing. their sentiments, even for
those who are in the habit of expreseine themselves with more
Hear, hear
-I therefore
l)_y!, stating
wish
u.i de-
tailtiu
precision than I am, to avoid the possibility' of misapprehension,
subject
and
from and by that means leading to consequences highly preju-
dicial to the interests at stake. It is fur this reason that I think
n
House will for the present excuse my going into any explana-
tiono personal
m upony opinions o
irt. public
_i Louadvantage
uponcriesthe u
o could
if )jt
eff ; arise
r
that in the present state of the country—in the print state
of the public mind, we should not agitate this question,
because, if we continue the discussion, we must give rise
more or less to warmth, to irritation, and to discussion, in this .
my
s
House ; and the result of such warmth, such irritation, and
such discussion here, will lead to ferment and inconvenience,
and, in the present state-of the public mind, .to mischief out of
doors.—( Hear, hear !)—My wish im, that this question may
stand where it now stands, and that the House will permit me to
repeat the assurance which I gave last session, that I will introduce
it the next Session.--(A have stated to the House my
reasons for not bringing forward the discussion this Session.--
(Hear !)----Those reasons may not appear good or satisfactory either.
to the House or the Hon. Member ; but I claim from the Home'
credit for sincerity, when I say, that all I wanted was to trans-
fer to the next Session the assurance which I gave on a former
occasion under other circumstances—(Hear, hear!)—when I wan
met by the sneer of the Hon. Member for Northampton ; but in,
making those assurances of my intention, I must say, as I have.
said on a former occasion, that I make them with a qualification ;,
and that I shall not ((insider myself bound by any pledge to such.
an extent as to be precluded from not redeeming it by any dr--
curnstancets be they what they may, which may arise during the►
next six or nine months. If the Honorable Gentleman thinks
that it is from any dread of the difficulties with which the
Question is surreunded that I shrink from bringing it forwards,*
he knows little of the character of the humble individual who'
has now the honour to address the House--(Cheers)—or of my
conduct upon other oeceeions—(Continued cheering)---wheo
felt it to be env duty to advocate measures which were more or
less palatable to those whose concurrence awl approbation I Was
mast anxious to obtain. The pledge which I nose give must be
understood in this sense, that I shall seize the first favourable
opportunity of el:Mg the sense of the House upon the system of.
the Corn Laws ; and that I have no reason to apprehend, that in
the next Session such an opportunity will not occur, hut I shall
not consider myself bound by that pledge to bring the question
forward under any circumstances. If I do not answer at
length all the arguments brought forward by the Honourable
Mover, I trust that he will think I do so, not from any dis-
respect to his motives in neitating the question, but from
an opinion, that the attempt would be to inconvenience,
and would not be productive of ally . advantage. Before I
sit down, I must say, that some of the doctrines of the Honour-.
able Mover respecting free trade, and some of the reproaches.'
heaped upon me and my Honourable Colleagues near rue, art
not justified according to my view of the principles of free
trade. The Honourable Member has argued, as if free trade

~~~ 3.

inntsieted in the removal of all difficnlties and restrictions upon the
importation of foreign articles into this Country, but that doctrine
does not meet my view of foreign trade.. The Hon. Mover says,
that he is the friend of free trade in corn. I appeal to those who
have sat. with me 'in the Committee of 1821, whether I shrunk
from, avowing myself as great a friend of the free trade in that
article, as the Honourable Mover is, but when my Honourable
• Friend says, I am for free trade in sugar, and for free trade in
timber, he forgets that there are two grounds of restriction in the
shape of duty, upon the productions of foreign countries. One
of these grounds, is the levying of duty for the purpose of raising'
a,,levenue, which the peculiar situation of this country, the
amount of our National Debt, renders necessary. Does not my Hon.
Orrad.know, that the Revenue levied upon the importation of
tinker is of considerable amount, and that the duty upon sugar is
a Moat productive source of revenue. Those duties are not, like
eater duties, levied for theprotection of any British manufacture,
hut solely for the purpose of Revenue.
'An Honourable Member.-s-East India Sugar. •
• •")11c. HIJSKISSON.--4 Could show that the protection afforded
that article is rather nominal than real ; but I must say
that I can't see why any part of British capital employed in' the
manufacture of one article should not be as well entitled to pro-
teetion, as any other portion of British capital employed in another
Mautifacture. The other ground of restriction upon free trade
.I)itSiats in the protection which places the manufactures, or the
Produceof the soil, upon a fair footing with the manufactures
and the produce of the soil of other countries. If, in the pecu-
liar.situetien of this country, there are circumstances which ren-
'der it Rees:wry .ten impose upon
,our manufacturers and agricul-
itiristsc I?netitens front which those classes are exempt in other
countries, it As but fair that a countervailing duty to the extent of
the advantages _of other countries, should be imposed as a
' proposed
to those classes in this country. What I have already
this Parliament, respecting free trade in silk, was not
diet all the ports should be opened without duty, but ,that such a
'degree of protection us appeared to tne Commensurate snafu the
disadvantages under which our manufacturers of that .article are
placed, compared with the foreign manufacturer, should be af-
forded in the shape of a duty upon the foreign manufacture, and by
thus putting our manufacturer upon an equal footing with the
foreigner, to excite his emulation and his industry. It is upon
tint principle that I, according to my view of the principle* of
trade, have acted, and I have done so not from any wish to
ii'47oy the silk trade in this country, but from a wish to destroy
that.comoetition which smuggling had created, and to increase the
r"vvaue. I am aware that this measure at first created alarm
among the British manufacturers, but I now believe that they find
4/"' 4 System more to their advantage than an actual prohibition,
which could not, by possibility, completely exclude competition,
...end that the protection afforded the British manufacturer, is quite
sufficient. The lion. Mover has said, that in proposing that mea-
sure I began at the wrong end, and that I ought first to have proposed
an alteration in the corn laws. When the Hon. Mover made that
Statement, I beg to ask hint, whether he recollected the different
circumstances under which those two branches of commerce were
placed? Dues he forget all the statements which had been made by
Mr. Webb Hall respecting the protection afforded to the manu-
factures of the country? Does he forget that Mr. Hall spewed that
tine branch of manufactures had a protection of 80, and another
branch a protection of 60 per cent. ; and that such was the int-
prestsion created by his writings, that the answer of the agricul-
turist to every proposal for any alteration in the Corn Laws was,
take off ,the protection given to the manufacturer, and we shall
be then able to enter into competition with the growers of
foreign corn? That objection has been removed by the
';hinge which has taken place ; and we can now say to the
itsriculturist, the protecting duty of the cotton manufac-
turer has been reduced; he pays a duty upon the raw
tusterinl, but iu addition to that duty, there is another im-
Posed upon the manufacturer in the shape of corn. This
statement must silence some of the arguments against an alters-
ti(ap in the system of the Corn Laws. The great difficulty is,
21'3 14 vutfiCimt.„..protecting duty to the agriculturist, upon the
Puriaticin of foreign corn, but I am couvinced that when we have
sufficient thine to consider the nature of the information, which in
4 kw days will, be in the hands of every lion. Member, and when
"'" shall be placed in more favourable circumstances than we stand
"I at prevent, we shall come to the consideration of the question
with greater certainty of 'doing justice to all the interests concerned
with greater satisfaction to our minds, and with the best prospect
that the most sanguine advocates of what are called the Agnelli-
teral Interests, will be reconciled to an alteration. For these tea-
his, and being firmly persuaded that no good could, under the
Peculiar circumstances, arise from agitating the question at, m-
om; and that this moment is not, in my view of the question, a
lit time for proceeding to the appointment of a Committee. I,
therefore,' feel myself, with every respect for the inotivei of the
lion. Mover, under the necessity of moving the previous queition.
Upon the amendmeot being put,
,_ Lord 'MILTON said, that if he Vita now disappointed at the
further "postponetnent of this great question by his Majesty's
Government, he c:oulil not but look for the saute disappoint-
wilt on future °evasions, because the *lune arguments might be
used and indeed expected from Session to Session, lie confessed
be thought the• Right lion. Gentleman had not complimented the
House, when he stated that they were not competent to discuss
the question, because of the impending ditimolution of Parliament.
It appeared to him that the sooner the. question was dealt with.
the better, and that it ought to be a good reason for prolonging
the Sessiou. By the Course which the. Government had taken,
'very thitig was left in euspence. Who could know what the
value of rents and leases would be, when his Majesty's Ministers
wraPped up in mysterious language or in silence what their inten-
tkbus were? He did not believe that a fair consideration of the
14stion, and an adjustment upon equitable :principles,:would be
injurious to the landed interests. Certainly they would be obliged
ki reduce their rents, but that 'would be made up to them by a
rresponding reduction in the price of corn and of all other arti-
of provision. He denied that the farmer and the agricultural
labourer were interested in the high price of corn ; and when
La the farther and labourer, they were in fact pleading their own
.elt,"e• They were the only parties who benefited by the high
Pt'ee of corn. It appeared to him, that if there was a time
when the' mnstion ought. to be considered, it was at a time
,0
Comenercial Distress; because be believed there was no
ra in the - comtuercial code of this country more injurious to
c:untseree than the Cons Laws which shut us out from almost
71trhe nearer ports of Europe and from the Baltic. In what-
7e, point of view he contemplated this law, it was equally oft-
Jectionable ; he. hound it impolitic, unjust,
and unchristian. It
was unchristian 'because it enhanced 1 to the poor
the necessaries of life. In short these laws were not to be
(14,4*!ntainet1 by: any argument short of national independence •
et he apprehended that no one could say theycould make'
in,(l,ePetuletito il„foreg n nations under the occurrence of many
I—"stule circumstances. 1)o let the House look at what the
question „-
eoty. was. It was nothing more nor less than the
for Ceirfientleme, n of England standing up to claim protection
The own. interests—that was, high prices and high rts.
meet,.. 3/44n_ded Gentlemen, who were the most wealthy, noet the
thenlB;luvwese renus Flame in the country—was it for them to place
i
such a situation, who ought to be at the head of
teary
thin
g ineghattiraous, and- to sacrifice their own interests
the cause'of their country and the general good? He blushed
for the clasp tonitieh h
Ueritleinen that It was said by some of these
the interesbetvlooasifigtnehdoe. national debt must be paid out
of the rents of the lando.f
anal
and
dpabrt of the national debt paid
by the accumulation
of the labourer
*„hotie industry Was his capital? The yabsurediati into which
l these
"entlemen fell, when they talked upon the tl subject,tlteinwSdu ndoreally
4Sl4ltitefepelity, e co. nclu.sious. to. which they
mg ot another description. He had been anxious to ex-
P.r_(*so_his opinion to the House, because he was responsible for the
ca f having
,otue voted for these laws, under the peculiar cir-
itostanesse in which the country was then placed.
.tr Mr. 11. STAINER ' thought that His Majesty's Ministers haul teal the agricultural 'interest very ill, by not at once emit alvdheiceihsion upon the question. In the state of uncertainty
the subject wits left, landlords knew not what en-
mo',
e
„ to enter into with their tenants. He did not
the ,ne principle of free trade as applied to this question. On
tht imputation which the . Noble Lord had cast upon them
tended .11C
to advan thetr own whilst the pre-
(Hear, ttlvocate he cause of the a
farmer and the laboury er.
trifiees hear !)—The landed gentlemen bad made ea-
It teas „which were in the highest degree honourable to them.
oat the unPossible that the agricultural interest could exist with.. of CA/11144W% so long as they lead to pay the present amount
_ if Ministers would take away. 30,000,0001. front
the 6,00 001• of debt, and repeal the 2,000,0001. of land tax and
nse to 30.00/• of poor rates, the agricultural interests would be
lion
resident
foreign competitiOn, but not otherwise, The Right
rot h: of the Board of trade, said that the question should
.14,01 ,4flitated till Mr. Jacobs'
napespublicaion came forth. Mr.
neu:o_wnrk would proditm no effect mind.—(A laugh.)
diner eia.ood that formed M J bentertained opinions very
from those which lie now rofessed
re 44 r y T. ACO C
,et ntertain one set of °Pinions When he saw a
ate asother u h n 1 Pat 'one me, and a different
e was employed hy Administration to serve
esrdentite.lar peoples, he" could not attach much weight to his
e4Pai • ishieh niIiABERLY expressed his surprise at the manner in
re
`fie •
ilideut of the Board of Trade had attempted to get

rid of the question. The Right Hon. Gentleman said it wan ha.
proper to discuss it this year, because it was then a period of dis-
tress; and last year he came to the same conclusion, but upon
a different ground--muziely-, because it was then a period of
prosperity. The Right lion. Gentleman seemed to be play-
ing at hide and seek. One did not know where to catch
him.—(Hear, hear !)--Such a set of arguments as the Right
Honourable Gentleman had advanced in objection to the motion
was never heard. Amongst other things he had said
that Mr. Jacobs' evidence was not yet ready. Whose
fault was that ? Mr. Jacobs had returned to this country in autumn,
and, if the Right Hon. Gentleman had really intended to redeem
the pledge which he made last Session, why was not the evidence
laid on the table of the House on the first day of the meeting of
Parliament? Gentlemen argued that cheap corn could afford no
advantage to the manufacturer ; because it was by the sale of that
corn, and by that alone, that the agriculturist, his customer,
was enabled to buy the commodity which he produced. But,
upon the shewing of Hon. Gentlemen themselves, this reasonit,
involved a fallacy; for, as certainly nothing could come into the
country unless something in exchange for it went out, no import
of corn could possibly take place unless by an exportation of
our manufactures. The lion. Wmher, after stating that he
objected to the Corn Laws for hardly any reason more than
for the violent fluctuations of prim which they tended to pro-
duce, concluded by , opposing the right of the agriculturists to
what they called a " remunerating price," upon the ground that
there was no saying at what point that remunerating price
.would atop. By bringing poor lands into cultivation, it might
be raised even thirty or forty .per cent. higher than it was at
present. He hoped that the question would be brought
forward and pressed from year to year until the existing system
was got rid of; convinced, as he was, that it was most mis-
chievous to the wealth and prosperity of the country.
Mr. HUSKISSON, in explanation, denied that, in the last
year, he had used the prosperity of the. country as an argument
against going into a revision of the Corn Laws; nor had he on the
present occasion quoted the distress a a reason for avoiding that
measure. All he now said was, that any rapid reduction at the
present moment in the price of corn might be likely to create
alarm, and aggravate the difficulties under which the country bad
been labouring. As for the report to which the Hon. Member for
Northampton had alluded, he (Mr. Iluskiason), had lost no time
in laying it before the House as soon as he received it.

Mr. b. PHILLIPS explained, amidst loud cries of " spoke."
Mr. CURWEN said a few words in defence of the land-owners,
who were not fairly used, as it seemed to him, in being accused of
a sordid attention to their own interests. The manufacturers
would gain nothing by having corn cheap, for their wages would be
low in proportion. The change proposed, it was clear to him,
would do mischief to the whole country.—(Cries of " Question.")
Mr. E. WODEHOUSE spoke for a few momenta;. but the
stormy state of the House rendered it impOtsaible to collect a single
sentence that the Hon. Member uttered.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT differed much from the Right
Hon. Gentleman on the Ministerial side of the House, with re-
spect to the advantage and disadvantage of discussion. He had
never seen it subject brought before the House, which in his
opinion more required discussion. He should vote for the motion,
because he was convinced that the interest of the whole commu-
nity required it, and that the interest of the landholder and the
country at large was one. The prosperity of this country was to be
attributed to the small scale on which its agriculture was con-
ducted. One-third of the community was sufficient to produce
food for the maintenance of the whole population. That pecu-
liar circumstance presented a feature of prosperity excelling any
to be found in the different nations of Europe. No State could
boast the same advantage. France, with a population of
50,000,000, had four-fifths employed in agriculture, and few in
manufactures—the consequence was, that by employing too
many in agriculture, they had a small manufacturing popula-
tion, and were not a rich nation. When agriculture and manu-
factures went on upon a proper scale both became rich. One,
in fact, could not be rich without the other. If France
had but half her population properly employed, she would be
happier than Englund, but having that system of law which
struck at property, she went on, as it were, in love with her de-
struction. They all knew that the laws in France made every
generation poorer than the preceding generation. Men who
were considered the light of the age considered it a great misfor-
tune not to have the laws of France, but if they had those
laws, the results would be very different from their calculation.
There were two ways of considering the question. One was to
consider the high price of corn, occasioned by' the Corn Law*.
An Honourable Member who maintained that doctrine,
had failed to prove that prosperity always attended when corn
was at low price. On the contrary, the Honourable Member
had shown, that where corn was so cheap the greatest distress pre-
vailed. Still the lion. Baronet considered the importation
of corn would be beneficial to the country. The more corn wan
imported, the more manufactures would be promoted. Let foreign
corn come into the country and manufactured articles would be
taken out.' lie was 'convinced the public interest required the Mea-
sure, and that the landed interest deceived themselves in opposing
it. It would be a great advantage if free trade in corn could he
established.
•
Mr. BROUGHAM wished to ;peak shortly to this simple
question—whether the house should go into a committee, not
to enter upon un investigation of the subject, but to adopt a
legislative measure to settle this question. The Right lion.
Gentleman opposite did not accede to the motion to settle
finally this important question, from a feeling connected with
the probable short duratiou of Parliament—a, question of
infinitely greater importance than any others, and highly so
with respect to the different relations in which it stood to the
whole wealth of the country. The settlement of such a
question ho (Mr. Broueltain) considered of great impor-
tance. The Right Honourable Gentleman was not willing to
have it discussed on the present occasion, because there would
not be sufficient time to .ffikeusa it, thinking it desirable, no
doubt, to refer the question to the country. lie (Mr. !trough-
ham) did view it so. lie thought that if the how seoled
this' question as they ought to settle it, and as the country
ought to wish it to be Nettled, they need not fear to meet their
constituents. But the course pursued by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman could not he sariCfactory to either of the two parch;
in this affair. He had not stared what the intentions of the
Government were, anti the uncertainty in which he had left both
of the two classes, would cause them to put their own con-
struction upon thei matter, and to be influenced by their own
feelings. This was seen exemplified in the case of the Hon.
member for Surrey (Mr. li. Sumner), who said he viewed wi.h
alarm the fearful doctrine of the Right Hon.(ientletnan. Would
the manufacturers be satisfied ? Would the consumers be
sstistied ? The reason why they could not discuss the question
now, was because the. discussion would prevent their meeting
the country ! There should be a fair protecting duty to enable
our agriculturists to maintain a compesition with dune of other
countries. This measure would not lower prices or rents so
much as to prevent fluctuating rents. It would be wrong in
him to express a belief' that it would tend to lower prices or
rents. Si ith lever prices, however, he trusted them would be
lowir wages in one department of labour—that of the public
service ; tie hoped that the rialaties of public servants which
had been augmented wouid be reduced, anti those parts of the
public burden lightened-4 Coughing)--that relief would be
affarded in the only way in which country gentlemen could be-
eaved.—((toughing.)—They would then have lower county
rates, and lower poor rates.—(Coui;hieg.)—With these views,
and in order that the question might be set at rest, he should
vote for the motion.
Mr. WHITMORE said a few words in reply, and • the
House divided—
lio 01—Against it, 2.lo.—Majority; 169.
The other nr(lorttilenrs, of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a QUARTER PAST ONE.