The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-05 00:00:00

did the Noble Earl mean to contend that the Government I
were to lie quietly by. and let th-m strike the blow without
interfering ? Why, it was only a few days ago that they had
received an account of an expedition being fitted out from Corfu
for the invasion of a country in alliance with her Majesty, and
that had been'concerted in conjunction with foreigners in this
country; and were the Government not to interfere?
The inquiry should not be directed to particular cases ; it
should be directed to the propriety of continu .g the power
and as to the checks to be placed upon its exercise. He
should therefore propose an amendment, introducing the, words
which had been introduced in the motion in the House of
Commons, and he *uuld move for a Secret Committee,
composed of Members of both sides of the House,
giving the majority to Noble Lords on the other
side, and excluding froth it all persons holding office, or
connected with office. The Committee wouli be so formed.
that he trusted it would give general satisfaction to the public.
He thought the matter ought to he inqured into, and he
should therefore move as an amendment to the motion of the
Noble Earl, that a Committee should be appointed, to consist
of the following Noble Lords :—the Duke of Bedford, the E trl
of Burlington, Lord Cottenham. Lord Brougham, Earl Powis,
Earl Somers, and the Bishop of London.
The Marquis of NOR ‘1 AN BY thought the amendment of
the Noble Duke ought to be carried. in preference to the motion
of his Noble Friend. No person was more anxious than him-
self that the subject should be properly sifted. He had never
exercised this odious power except in cases where the safety of
the State was concerned. He had heard some of the doctrines
of the N0..1e Duke with regret. It was true that it was de-
sirable to maintain peace, but how he could apply his observa-
tions to the present case he could not tell. If the letters of
exiles in this country were to be opened with impunity by the
Pest-office, it was impossible to say where it would stop. He
was very glad that the sabject was now to un-
dergo a searching inquiry, but he must beg their Lord-
ships to understand that he was far from consenting
.to the doctrine laid down by the Noble Duke. Of coarse he
subject would relate to the management of the Post-office in
Ireland as well as in this country. When he was in Irelami
he never exercised the power, except in the case of Ribbonisiu.
The Duke of WELLINGTON explained. There were two
Noble Lords that he had placed on the Committee, to whom it
would be inconvenient to attend; and he should, therefore,
now propose that the following Noble Lerde should form the
Committe —Earl Somers, the Earl of Burlington. the Earl of
Roseberry, Lord Colchester, Lord Brougham, Lord Cotten-
ham, and the Bishop of London.
Lord CAMPBELL thought the petition of Mr. Mazzini
ought to be referred to the Committee.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said it should be.
Lord CAMPBELL thought the Committee would report
that a Bill of Indemnity was necessary. It was true that the
power had existed for 150 years, and notwithstanding that he
would venture to say there had been a great stretch of power
in the Secretary of State's office. His belief was that, balancing
inconveniences on the one side against advantages on the other,
it would be best to put an end to this power.
Lord BROUGHAM said, as he was nominated upon the
Committee, be should. of course, reserve the expression of his
opinion both upon the law and the facts.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE inquired whether the
wording of the motion included the Post-office in Ireland ?
The Duke of WELLINGTON said it would be an inquiry
into the whole.
The Earl of RADNOR withdrew his motion, and the
amendment was carried.
The Committee was appointed to meet on Thursday next.
The Privy Council Appellate Jurisdiction Bill was read a
, third time.—Their Lordships then adjourned.

______ .
IMPEICIAL PARLIAMENT.
fiOUSE OF LORDS. July 4.
ROYAL ASSENT
The Royal Assent was given to shortly More 4 o'clock,
by Commission, to the following Bills :—The Sugar Duties
Lill, the Vinegar Duties Bill, the slave Trade Treaties Bill,
tlet Gold and Silver Wares Bill, Forestalling Abolition Bill,
the Night Poaching Bill, the Assaults (Ireland) Bill.
tte Limitation of Actions (Ireland) Bill, the Leeds and
Bradford Railway 611, the Manchester and Rossendale
Pailway Bill, the York and Searhorough Junction Railway
Bill, the Eastern Counties and Peterborough Railway Bill,
tt e Salisbury and South-Western Branch Railway Bill, the
Rhitehaven and Maryport Railway Bill, the Chester and
Holyhead Railway Bill, the Edinburgh and Glasgow Extension
Railway Bill, the ehorehami and Chichester Railway Bill,
the South Devon Railway Bill, the South-Eastern Railway
and Folkestone Harbour 13ill, the Stretfordßailway and Har-
bour Bill, the Edinburgh, Glaigovv, and Stßaore.away Railway
Bel, the Preston and Wyre Railway Bill. the Coventry
Water Works Bill, the Sheffield Gas Bin, the Manchester
Warehousing Bill, the Manchester Police Kill, the Manchester
Magistrates Bill, the Manchester Infirmary Bill, the Man-
chester Improvement Bill, the Nottingham Canal Bill, the
F ritisla Society Incorporation Rill, Southampton Improve-
ment Bill, Canterbury Improvement Bill, Liverpool Fire
Prevention Bill, Blayne Iron Cemptny Bill, the British
Iron Company's Bill, European Life Assurance Company's
Bill, and various turnpike, drainage, estate, naturalisation, and
ether Bills.
The Commissioners were the Archbishop of Canterbury, the
Lord Chancellor, and Lord Wharncliffe.
After the Commission their Lordships resumed the argu-
ments in the case of the Queen v. O'Connell and others.
Their Lordships re-assembled for Parliamentary business at
Five o'clock, wheat the Loan CHANCELLOR took his seat on
the Woolsack.
The Bishop of LONDON presented petitions from various
Wesleyan, Baptist, Independent, and Church of England Con•
gregat ions against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill,
The Earl of GALLOWAY presented a petition from Olney,
in Bucks, to the same effect. The Noble Earl also m ived the
postponement of the third reading of the Brothels Bill until
Tuesday week, in consequence of the absence of a 'alight Rev.
Prelate.
The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL presented petitions from
several Presbyterian congregations in the north of Ireland
against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill.
Messengers from the Commons brought up certain Bills.
Lord CAMPBELL presented two petitions from Aberdeen,
one in favour of the Presbyterian Mixed Marriages (Ireland)
Bill, and the other against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from Yorkshire
in favour of protection to agriculture.
MOROCCO.
The Earl of MINTO gave notice of his intention to-morrow
to put a question to the Government, with a view of ascertain-
ing whether they had adopted any measures to send to the coast
ofltlorocco a naval force sufficient for the protection of British
interests. Perhaps some member of the Government would
inform the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty of his
intention to put the question.
WAR IN AFRICA.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE gave notice of his in-
tention to put a question to some Member of her Majesty's
Government, on Monday, as to the war pending in the western
part of Africa.
BANGOR AND ST. ASAPH.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE brought up the report of the Com-
mittee appointed to inquire with respect to this Bill. The
Committee reported that it was a measure for which it was
usual to have the consent of the Crown before they proceeded.
Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition from Glasgoer
against the Dissenters' Chapel Bill.
The Bishop of LLA:siDAFF presented similar petitions.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, on the application of the
Bishop of London, fixed the consideration of the Lords Amend-
ment to the DissentersTHE'
ST AT ChapelE Bill, for Monday week.
TRIALS.
The Earl of RADNOR presented a petition from West-
minster, praying that the House would address the Queen, to
exercise her prerogative on behalf of Mr. O'Connell and others.
POST-OFFICE.—OPENING LETTERS.
The Earl of RADNOR then rose for the purpose of moving
for a Committee of their Lordships upon the subject of opening
letters by the Government and the Post-office. Notwith-
standing what had taken place in the other House of Par-
liament, he felt bound to bring forward the subject, which
increased in importance every day. A Committee of their
Lordships' House would have more weight than one
of the House of Commons, because their Lordships examined
witnesses upon oath, which they did not in the House of Com-
mons. He believed that until this expose had taken place, the
public thought that their letters were held sacred, but the re-
velation made in that House had opened the eyes of the public
to what was going on. From that rev'lation it appeared that
it was the practice on certain occasions hi the Secretary of
State's-office to open letters. It seemed doubtful from the
Acts, whether there was sufficient authority to justify this pro-
ceeding. It had been stated to be one of the original objects
of the establishment of the Post-office, but though it
was mentioned in the preamble of the ordinance, it
was not stated as the main object. The Act of MERCHANT SEAMEN.
Queen Anne had been referred to, but there was nothing Mr. gave would,
S. HERBERT notice that he te-morrow,
either in that or any of the subsequent Acts, which authorised move for leave to bring ina Bill to amend the laws relating to
the Secretary of State to detain and open letters. Although the registration of merchant seamen.
he admitted that such a power was assumed, that was a totally THE FRENCH IN AFRICA.
different thing from authority being given to the Secretary of Mr. SHELL gave notice that he would, to-morrow, put a
State to issue his warrant. He would like to know question to the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) relating to
where the authority was to be found. He believed it was not the British Consul in Algiers—namely, whether that officer
to be found in any statute, and the Post-office had not been in exercised his functions with a sequatur from the French Go-
existence long enough to bring it under the common law. vernment or by the authority of the Turkish Government.
He had discovered that he was in error on a previOus He would also put a question as to our relati one with France
°elision and supposing that the Secretary of State was a in respect to the French possessions in Africa.
justice Of the peace for the whole country. Lord Campbell
had decided that that was not the case, except in the instance truthnfr. WALLACE begged to ask whether there was any
of treason sad one of his grounds, for stating that was, that in the rumour that the Government intended to abandon
the Railways Bill.
he could not administer an oath, and therefore could not Com-
m:lit If, then,. he was not a justice of the peace, what Mr. GLADSTONE gave the most unqualified contradiction
toetlretitpast rumour. If he
to-morrow night, he would do so
on M could not bring on the second reading
power had he to issue a warrant ? It was said that he before
possessed it by usage. The Noble Lord then read a judgment Monday.
ten o'clock
of the Earl of Mansfield's on this point, for the purpose In answer to a question from Mr. HAWES,
of showing that the argument of usage did not apply. Mr. GLADSTONE said that if he could not proceed with
The Noble Lord then quoted the opinion of Lord Camden as the Joint-stock Companies Bill to-morrow, he would fix it for
to the seizure of papers. He said letters were the dearest pro- Wednesday next.
perty men possessed, and so far from enduring seizure they In answer to a question from Mr. BERNAL,
-would scarcely bear inspection. He did not deny that cases
might arise in which this power would be necessary for the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the ne-
gotiations with the Belgian Government on the subject of
safety of the state. But to anticipate such a case was, he thought, ost-office communications were progressing.
foolish proceeding. If the power were exercised, it was
better it was done on the direct responsibility of the SCOTCH AND IRISH BANKS.
Minister who might apply to Parliament openly for an indem- Mr. P. M. STEWART presented a petition from Renfrew,
enty ; but he did not think that any case could justify the de- against any interference with the present system of banking in
taming of letters of foreigners. He thought it was a breach Scotland. Much alarm hail been created by an intimation given
of hospitality, against which his mind, and he believed that of b the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), that as the House
the public, quite revolted. What had they to do with the in- hail assented to the Bank Charter Bill, he should feel himself at
ternal affairs of other countries? If a foreigner came to this liberty to turn his attention to the banking and currency of
country and did net violate its laws, he thought he ought to Scotland and Ireland. He begged to ask whether it was in-
have the benyfit of the Constitution. He again bore tended to interfere with a system which had worked so well as
that Scotch banking?
4e stimony to the high moral character of Mr. Mazzini,
who, a
he admitted, was n enthusiast in the cause of
subjectirß;irhEouEtLcosmaimd
uthnitinactaheg withdtheuwol n not take any step upon the
persons best acquainted
liberty, but stated that he was principally occupied in with the subject.
literary pursuits. Was the dissemination of liberal MINISTERS' MONEY IN IRELAND.
opinions a crime in England ? Himself a descendant of Mr. Sergeant MURPHY begged to ask the Right Hon.
a family who tied to England for refuge. With respect Baronet whether it was his intention to uphold the division
to M. Stolzmann, his letters were never opened till the of the House yesterday in reference to ministers' money ?
arrival of the Emperor of Russia. Was there any Sir R. PEEL said that the matter was in the Iron. and
Clanger, he would ask, of any of the Poles assassinating Learned Gentleman's own hands, and he did not think it would
the Emperor ? Mr. Mazzini had been very active in be jest to exempt
mi the property to which the motion related for
establishing schools for the education of the poor Italian the payment nisters' money.
boys, whom, no doubt, their Lordships saw wanderin" DISMISSAL OF IRISH MAGISTRATES.
about the streets of the metropolis. The priest attached to the Mr. P. S. BUTLER wished, for the information of Irish
magistrates, to learn, from the Noble Lord the Secretary for
Sardinian Smbassy raised a cry against him because there was
no religious heatruction. But if that were even so, it was dismissal from the Ireland, what were the grounds of Mr. Cornelius O'Brien's
better than that they should be left to run about the streets. magistracy.
The greatest moral evil would be produced by this practice. Lord ELIOT had no official information on the subject.
They had heard of the conscience of the State, but he thought 31r. CHRISTIE rose, parsuant to notice, to ask Sir Robert
that was nonsense when applied to sects and religions. But Peel whether the Government have taken, or intend to take,
the Government ought to take cre not to set the example any steps for removing the disabilities and disadvantages under
which Dissenters from the Church of England labour in the
of falsehood, treachery, and forgery.—( Cheers.) On one oc-
profession of the law ; but at the request of Sir R. Peel, he
eastion, a person from whom he received a begging letter had
postponed the question till Monday.
forged his seal. Was not that what the Government had
done f There was no more of falsehood, forgery, or treachery THE LETTER-OPENItiG.
in the one case than in the other. It was so felt by everybody. Mr. HUME had seen in the ordinary channels that in the
He was glad to see the manner in which the French looked on discussion of the Committee respecting the opening of letters
this subject. J. Guizot declared in the Chamber of Deputies in the Post-office, the Right Hon. Baronet had said that he was
that letters were secred in that country. He felt ashamed indifferent to the Subject. The contrary was the fact ; and in
that none of the Ishible Lords opposite could say that. He the first debate he had denounced the opening of letters as
spoke warmly on this subject, because he felt warmly. He base and disgraceful; and he had said that nothing could be
hoped their Lordships would now take the first step to put more degrading to a British Minister than to act as a spy
&stop to this practice. He asked for a Select Committee to for foreign Governments.—(Cheers, and cries of " Order,
inquire into the system of opening and detaining letters, and
order.") He must say that if the House had ap-
inted him to the Committee, he would have had nothing to
snore particularly into the circumstances under which the Po
)letters of Mr. Mazzini and Mr. Stolzmaun had been opened. do with it —( Hear, hear.) He would have nothing to do with
The Duke of WELLINGTON fully admitted that this Secret Committees, and he thought that no proceedings of that
queetion had at last assumed a shape that should be inquired House should be secret from the public.—( Hear, hear.) Every.
into. But the law and the practice should be inquired into. where he had gone throughout the country, he had heard but
When the Noble Lord attributed to the Government treachery, j one opinion of this disgraceful conduct. Only yesterday,
fraud, and falrity—(Cries of Hear, hear)—it was time that in a linen draper's shop at Yarmouth, a person came
it should be inquired into. But he thought they should in and complained that a letter had not been sent to him,
according to promise. But the ,ho man assured him that
pot' o into a roving inquiry of the description pointed out in
,the letter hai been duly posted, and perhaps it might be
the Noble Lord's speech, to inquire whether this man's or the
other man's letters had been opened. A great part of the found upon Sir James Graham's table —(Laughter. )
Sir R. PEEL said that the Hon. Member's absence from
Noble Lord's speech was directed entirely to the repeal of the
law, and maintained that it should be immediately
.and totally the discussions did not show any intense anxiety upon
repealed. The Noble Lord might be quite justified is the subject; and he thought that the Hon. Gentleman
having already made up his mind that the transaction was base
entertaining that opinion ; but it was an opinion in
which he would not find many to agree with him ; and disgraceful, disqualified him from sitting on the Committee.
but at the same time, he must say that, if bethought Mr. T. DUNCOMBE then moved that petitions presented
that power was exercised, or ever had been exercised, on the subject be referred to the Committee —Ordered. .
in the manner referred to by the Noble Lord in some parts THE BANK CHARTER BILL.
Of his speech—that was to say, that it was applied for On the reading of the Order of the Day for the third read-
pirate purposes and for private interests, and not for I ing of the Bank Charter Bill,
the purpose of promoting the public benefit—he should Lord WORSLET presented a petition against the Bill.
say that the law ought to be repealed and put an end Mr. WODEHOUSE then rose to move the amendment of
to forthwith.—(Cheers.) But the law stood on the broadest which he had given notice, to the effect " that en tender in the
grounds for the public interest, and the exercise of the power it payment of money made in the silver coin of this realm, of arty
conferred ought to he used on std other grounds than those of sum exceeding the esm of 251. at any one time, shall be re-
public interest. He had no objection to the appointment of a puted in law or allowed to be a legal tender, within Great
Comnaittee to inquire into the law and the practice under the Britain or Ireland, for more than according to its value by
law ; but he objected ti. the appointment of a Committee of weight, after the rate of 53. 2d. for each ounce of silver ;
that House to inquire into. the eircurstotances of opening the i and no person to whom such tender shall be made
letters of particular individuate. He believed the letters of she shall be any ways bound thereby, or obliged to receive the
two individuals alluded to were-hp:fled ; but the law was seine in payment, in any other manner than as aforesaid, any
open to them—(Cries of " () hs oh i")—and time person law, steipte, or usage to the contrary notwithstanding." The
who opened them was, guilty of a .m;edemeanor, are. Hon. Meniher, having read several long extracts in support of
less he could Proance,_autuoritt for the the oeenitne of them• !tis views form the evidence taken before the Bullion Corn-
lie would not follow t"' Noble eo!'" into his argumenie 43 to mitts", proceeded to say that the measure was dangerous in
the power of the Secretary -of :state to issue general warranie• the extreme, He was upheld in his views upon this subject
The Secretary of State was in this instance the officer of the -Ly no less an authority than Mr, Berries. He was at a
Sovereign—the officer of the Government. The Post-office
loss to find upon whattghreoußnigiihstthlleonl.loitnie.milleermtobrerploorrtlslmaoliufathe
was one of the departments of the Government, and the (Mr. C. Wood) and
Secretary of State had a right to send an order to the officer ( Mr. Baring) had given such a strong and energetic patronage
of that department, which his was bound to obey. The Act to this measure. They had
bolt addressed the House in
of Parliament was precise in tnat particular—it enacted that laudatory terms of the Right Honourable Baronet's (Sir lees
letters were to be delivered as they were put into the post- bert Peas) Bill, but neither of them had informed the
office, except in certain cases, one of which was where a House of the precise reasons which justified their approval of
warrant for the detaining and opening such letters was issued it, It was well to talk, As those Hon. Members and alr. Jones
by the Secretary of State. There could be no doubt about the Loyd did? of approaches to perfection in their monetary system,
law. It was true. there was no express authority by law to but in his (Mr. Woslehouse's) oiriMon, it would be much more
enable the Secretary of State to issue the warrant—( Hear, ' satisfactory to the country to prove that sech approaches had
bear)—but he had the authority, acting as an officer of her been made. In the witola of his (Mr. Wodelloose's) experi-
etfajesty's Government, to call upon the Poet-master ence, he had never read such a little° of nonsense as that
to carry the law into execution. The question which had teen peblished upon this subject by Me, Jones Loyd.
must always turn upon that particular instance. Sir R. PEEL skid the cause was not in conformity with
and he would say, on the part of his Right lion, Friend, that the notice of the Hon. Geru.leni4p-
he. as a member of her Majesty's Government, was willing to Mr. WODELIOUSE said 'it wes pot.
share the respowibility with his Right Hon, Friend. No act Sir R. PEEL thsurht that a great part of the speech of the
had been perforated by hie Right Hon. Pried but what had I Bon. Gentleman ought to have been addressedegaieet the third
been performed for the purpose of promoting the public inte- reasimg of the Bill. The clause wools! bare bee' a very
rest. The Noble Lord had talked of the exemption of foreigners, , good one :1 by the . present law the legal tender in
and had talked of a breach of hospitality ; but if foreigners,
;silver was now abuse pi.
but by the present law the lawn
domiciled here, acted in a manner pontrary to the interests of tenths( of silver was limited to tea,
if they permitted '251. to
were they not guilty of a breach of hospitality?— be a legal teedet in silver, they would of couwoc depreciate the
this country,
( Hear, hear.) Was it fit that the Secretary of State should standard of stelae ot F4i.gy. It. was imposaible for hied, there:
Allow acts to be done which might inflict the calamities of war fore, to apeede i
the peepenenn of his Hon. Friend.
on powers with which we were friendly ? The polity of this Mr. HU.MU ovimgd
depreciate the standard cf velee of silver. H.l: yli9ulti always
depreciate
n!attSe, 0 itp effect would be to
country was to maintain peace everywtorp, because it was tLo
int-'rest of this country that the world should remain at peace, i c•pipse the.establishment of a double steadied,
and if foreigners fitted out expeditions for Corfu es' Malta to Mr. IhVe.4TZ believed that if the clause were adopted, it
disturb the peace of Italy, would it be eonteuded that they were would not attain
.tho object the Honourable Gentlemao
not guilty 6f a breach of the laws of hospitality, and that they haJ view.
./le would take ow opptetunity of correcting
ought not to be interferes& with as acting contrary to the intoterts a uaisajTrgtoniwn which had. occurrest#lth pie4t4o wti:aht,lll,oe
of this country? A ',7ce years sin, an expedition had been fitted bad 304 on a former Seetesiene, He was refiret
out here against a neighbouring otentry, which was all ;said t 44 be Adhona4sed a clininrente:ien in ihe cerrency. He'had
but successful. Nov would i;, not have iteep the duty of the never dour this; Nr ke 144 #lways lieheved that the d,epre-
Government, if they had received' 0.2 e smallest .etjmation of ciation of the cttp!e.nay WU OPP A( Oe greatest4lo.l ever
the expedition, to interfere to prevent it i All foreigners ligig committed on the puuli.7-
were subject to the municipal law of the coUri:rv, and were i ki answer to a question from Sir W. JAMES,
;;cued to act in conformity with the interests of the 1-;ountry. Lis ri. p Er.l., ;aid, that some new gold mines had recently
If the Government knew that foreigners were preparieg en ep i been discovered in Ssberl4.
poclitiOtl ill tbii colutr7 for thy IV*" vi II !Weir CAultri? ' PIP r N.*T4w4,RT 0141 ht the 4iscoveri would place
. .
_ _ .

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 4.
The Sramcza took the Chair at a Quarter to Four.

ROYAL COMMISSION.

The Usher of the Black Rod appeared at the Bar, and sum-
moned the House to the Bar of the House of Peers to hear her
Majesty's Royal Commission read, for giving the Royal Assent
to certain Bills (for which see Lords' Report).
AGRICULTURAL PROTECTION. .

Mr. HOSKINS presented a petition from the Agricultura'
Protection Society in favour of the objects of that body.

POOR-LAWS.

Captain ROUS presented a petition from Westminster
against certain proposed alterations in the poor-law.
Petitions against the-new poor-law were presented by Lord
RSHAM, Colonel RoLLEsToN, and others whose names we
could not learn.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from Maryle-
bone, praying that parishes whi:h have local acts for the ma-
nagement of their own poor, should be exempt from the control
of the Commissioners.