The Sun.
London, England, 1821-06-02 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

.Mr. N. DUNDAS presented a Petition from the
City cf,Edinbergh against the Extra Post Bill,
'A Petition was .presented from some inhabitants of Aber-
daen. (North Britain), complaining of the aiulteration of Clover

Lord A. HAMILTON presented a Petition from the Bur-
gesses-of the City of Edinburgh, in common with those of the
Royal Burghs in Scotland, praying fora reform of those abuses
which were known notoriously to exist in Scotch Burghs. Or-.
dered to be printed: -
Thd Report on the Prisons Bill was brought up and read,
14.d.tlif. Bill was ordered to be read a third time or. Monday.
The House went into a Committee on the Irish Coal Yards
Bill. The Report was ordered to be received on Monday
next. - • _ _

• li,ord BINNING brought up the eighteenth Report of the
Caletbnian Canal Commissioners. - .
T.GLERAWLV DIVORCE RILL..
•The Agents of the Parties in' this case, Mr VAT MAN, and
Mr. W. INtrsG, were examined at the Bar of the House, and
satisfied the .House that they were the Agents authorisell by
the-partici to act.
MAXWELL SLAVE 'REMOVAL BILL.

her. J. P.ll-BANT, in moving the second reading of the
Bill, said, that if the Bill could in any respect injure the slaves
sought to be removed, or could in any way injuriously affect the
negro population,- to whose emancipation he had ever been a
waun friend, no motive of private regard' for. Mr. Maxwrll
would induce him' (Mr Grant) to. introduce or to press the Bill
through that Rouse. - The simple facts of the case were these—
:vit. Maxwell had a considerable estate in the island of An-
tigua, en which he had a negro population ; for the maintenance
otthit popitlation"-the produce of the estate for several years
had:been unproductive. -Mr. Maxwell (who, tliongh posscesed
of the Antigna'and other estates, had ever been constant ad-
vocate for the abolition of the Slave Trade) had rillt for a period
of 60 years found it necessary to
_purchase
_a single slave. On
the contrary, such .was the treatment they received,- that within
that period there was a considerable increase of the population
on his estate.' -Under these circumstances, the produce of, the
estirte•being- •.no- longer' sufficient for the maintenance of his
s2.aves, Mr. 'Maxwell came to that House to seek CO a dispensa-
tion' of the law which prevented the removal of slaves. He
(Mr..-Gtant) hoped that the House would -grant, a Committee
cEn'the-13ill ; and should it appear in that Comnrittee that any
fittr-Wojcietion could 'be made to tire principle of the Bill, he
(Mt. Giant) far from supporting, would in that case oppose the
=astir& to the utmost of his power.
Mr.,GOULBURN.said, •that without meaning to cast any
kind of reflection on the conduct of Mr. Maxwell, he felt it his
<WV to oppose theßill; on broad ground that,iniio circum-
stince4; toe removal of 'slaves from insular to continental pos-
Said ought to be countenanced. Parliatnent could not pass
the petent -Bill in favour of Mr. Maxwell, and, refuse similar'
applications on the part of other proprietors Hear, hear !)
and he (Mr. G.) had good reason to know that' there were many
prsotic.-waitlng flit:the result of -the..present proceeding ; there
were many persons 'who regarded the application of Mr. Max-
well as a sort of forlorn-hope and should it, 'by any accident,
strOceed, -the aeons of Parliament Would-be surrounded with per,
soda -Mri,ing similar claiinS, and-calling upon the bcgislature for
exEiniotions from the general-law, which, after passing the pre=
scat Bill, - the House could -not' on any ground of consistency re-
fuse. The Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to state that
to •grant 'Mich exerription,s would be equally impolitic and unjust
•!-,,it Would belighly dangei•ous to transport slaves froin insular
possessions, to which they were attached. and:on which the
Bri-
tish Nicv f 'COW be'gasily
.brought to operate in -case of env in-
surrectionary. moverdrints ; and, with tespect to the' slaves. them-
aelvesc to tear them away from 'the place of. iheirbirth--L-froin
country whete- the arts of -sedial life had adVaneed, to remote
and uncivilised regions, would be highly oppressive and unjust.
TE/nder hathe gircuinstan-ces', he felt it his diftk to move, as an
Amman:lent,' that the Bill be read. a second time that day, three
months: - • • " ••

Mr. CALCRAFT strkgly urged the propriety of sending
the-Rill to a--(7orrunittee, 'wlrere•objections, if strong objections
esisteti,'Wohld be urged, and u?cessfully urged, against it.
-Doctor -PHIL LI AI ORE' • opposed the' Lill, which lie con-
sidered Unjust and oppressive, because it was a measure for the
transportation of 329 peisons from a dry and healthy climate
to a meow country.
Mr. WILBERFORCE trespassed on the time of the House
with great reluctance on.. the present occasion...--Ile objected, to •
the measure as being at war with all the giat principles of 'the
Abolition of the Stave Trade. Nothing could be more oh-
kosj.jous to the dictates of -humanity, than to remove anumberl
o. those unfortunate creatures from the place of their birth and
residenee to a spot they -were not acquainted With, and to a
climate they were 'unaccustomed • to. . Their work would be
immediately changed in • its• natirro;- and augmented in its
aniount,- and finally exacted from:them by increased seVecity.l
igtrdated. the , Honse not to •be seduced from a due esti-
Mete' of-the characterof Chia measure, from its being called
a• --PrivA ;bill,
te affecting -only
_private individuals. The
cliffetent—stAte in which the ' slaves would be, who were',
transported from Antigua.. to Demeram, was inconceivably
gfeat: Tit:Antigua Ebel hied a right to vote at elections, and
p(wsse.ssed manyprivileges tnd' advantages of &nature to elevate
and-ermoble•human,nature: • They might'also be said to enjoy
the ...blessings' of • Christianity, . for there were established' in
.that island? some ..considerable sects -of Moravians who had
succeeded -in, converting' .'at' least. half the population of the
island to Christianity:'' Let the - House consider the .seve-
rity of this deprivation heals the blessings and comforts of
the Gcspelto the depths of darkness. Let those Gentlemen
"wto • were anxious for the welfare of the Itegrocs look at
ti7;e reward proposed-to be given them upon an increase of
their Aunihcrs. That reward was to transport them to a new
td•-theirfeelings and habits, and to sever the pa-
. rent frbiu the the wife, from the husband ; in short, to
'dissolve all those ties which alone tended to endear human be-
!rips, to their existence this world. The intellectual superio-•
-riff of -Antigua over DeMerara could-not'be doubted i 'and as
to.the.exclusive advantages' it possessed in point of climate, he
iso•tild refer all those who wished to satisfy themselves in that
tft4c4t to a work then extant, Mini the hand of a physician
-grateitin the metropolis (Dr. Pinkardl, Which contained the
:sdosp,able 4rrd luminous exposition of • the climate, &c. of the
Wrest Iv:ilialslands that bad issued from the press. Under all
attlati'.chicuinsthhces he trusted the House would not any longer
!'en*fesiti this.Bill.-S.s(Hear, hear !). • •

Nat-guess. of LOikOONbf.H.RY. wished, shortly to
s4te the j-easons of the.vote. which. he intant to give upon this
qiieslibt...'lr the prificipleof the Bill 'was 'good, it should
be generalised.—(Hear !)—The questioticAtras, whether the
Learnea, Gentleman who proposed the Bill was prepared to
purthe prolicifition on i#s general footing. If they opened all
;,the fertile. lands of the British possessions on the Continent to
the negroes of persons in the situation of Mr. Maxwell, they
seared the. depopulation 'of the West India Islands. The
..-ittrtiam of emigration once opened," must continue to .flow in,
Xl'4 the nuestion was,. would it be advisable to Change the de-
..grqe of advancenient and civilisation which existed among the
•Eckre. es in the island for thit which was likely to be offered on
the... Continent ? He thoiight not; as he was not prepared to
-,.‘ciclit the general principle, he.saw no reason for establishing an
etception in the case of-Mr. Maxwell. He might transport the
sir; es to his own estate in Grenada, and he was not entitled, on
the ground of dry colonial speculation, to transport them to Dc.

mertza ; he hoped the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
would withdraw the Bill.

Sir .T. MACKINTOSH contended that, according to the ex-.
isting law, Mr. Maxwell had power to inflict Upon-the
slaves all the inconvenienc's which were urged as the ground
for opposing this Bill. Thp Housp had, or might have it
proved to them, that,..Mr. Maxwell had it no longer in his
power to cultivate his plantations ist'Antigua by the help of the
slaves. He was therefore desirous of transferring them to De—
merara. The question then was this, whether it would be .bet-
ter for the slaves themselves that Mr. Maxwell should be al-
lowed
to transport them thither in a body, than that he
should be forced to dispose of- them so as to disperse
them round the neig-hbounng islands. The Bill" had been
objected to upon two grounds-,that it would interfere with the
C9lll fort of the negroes, and would .prove adangerous example.
Ile would ask,
,was not the haPpine.ss.of the body best consulted
by Heir being retained in the possession of that individual,
under the paternal care of whose family they had lived so long
and so advantageously ? It was a strong case indeed against
Demerara that would warrant the House in forcing the diaper-
sion of the slaves. It was said that the laws of Demerara were
bad. It was the fault of this Government that they were so.
But he would not hear it maintained in that House that any of
their Colonies was a place unfit fin. human residence, in cense,
quence of the inferior state of the laws. As to the objection
that the climate was bad, all he could say was this, that if the
salubrity of the climate was- not satisfactorily made cut, he
would readily oppose the Bill. 'He denied that any danger could
arise fr6rd this precedent ; for let the House consider the con.;
ditioni annexed to the privileges now to be granted to Mr. Max-
well, and by which that Gentleman was willing, to be bound.
He (Mr. M.) would, first of all, strike out the preamble which
'alluded to the former Act, and substitute a preamble reciting
the whole circumstances of this peculiar case. And, anxious.
as he was, as an ardent friend to the abolition of the Slave
Trade,- that every measure made with respect-to them should
Lave for its end the amelioration •of their condition, he was
• willing-to assent to an obli"atibn whereby he would be bound
to purchase Plintations in Demerara, to keep the-slaves there,
'in his own possesSion ; that he should satisfy the House as to
the salubrity .of the climate ; "that he should be disabled from
selling any of the slaves for a period 'of five; or, if necessary, of
ten years ; and that he should build a chutch, endow it, and
supporra Clergyman of the established religion, for the'henefit
of the sla;,res-.

Sir R.-WILSON shortly opposed the Bill. n had been
urged, as a reason for the measure, that if Mr. Maxwell should
not be permitted to transport these slaves to Demerara, they
would- be, of no use ; and they would, of course, diminish in
value in Antigua. He would ask, was it not an object with the.
friends of the abolition that the slaves should diminish in value?'
and ought rot the circumstance to be hailed with pleasure by
all who looked with pleasure upon the decline of the traffic ?
Mr.. BARING had no hesitation in expressing his opinion of
the soundness of the principle contained in this Bill, as a gene=
ral principle. The gallant General thought that he ought to
rejoice at the diminution of the value of a slave in Antigua.—
Now the circumstance, if examined, would be found calculated
to entail a series of miseries-upon the slaves, because when once
they lowered in value their masters would become, indifferent.
.to them, and the consequence would be, that they would be-
come the objects, and, perhaps. the victims of all manner-of ill-
treatment. He looked upon this question with reference to the
principle of an overstock of population. In the present case,
there appeared to be a superabundance of slaves in Antigua,
and this Gentleman looked viand and fixed upon a place of
comparatively thinpopulation, where the surplus might be
transported. Would any one say that this was a harsh step to
the individuals themselves, or dangerous as a precedent ? He,
for one, rejoiced 'that an 'opportunity was opened for giving vent
co an overstock; and that the time was come whena population
of slaves was not to be thinned by the effects of misery. Being
persuaded of the soundness of the general principle, he should
expect it to be satisfactorily made out that Antigua laboured
under the inconvenience of an overstocked population. -
Mr. PEEL assured the Horse that he was a most impartial
judge in this case, as he knew nothing of the case but from-
What he had hea4.l-in the course of the Debate. Ile must
however say, that the case made out by the supporters of this
Bill, ought, in his opinion, to cause the indignant rejection' of
it. If the principle on which the Hon. Member for .Taunton
(Mr. Baring) supported the measure, were a correct one, it
ought.to be fatal to the Bill; for the Hon. Member contended,
that the principle of the Bill ought to be extended in its ope-
ration to all the proprietors of slaves in the West Indies. If
so, then, it-must be fatal to this as a special Bill, instead of
being a general one. Ike viewed this Bill as encouraging a
qualified Slave Trade, and, 'as such, opposed it. He was sorry
to see the Hon. and Learned 'Gentleman opposite (Sir J.
Mackintosh) among the number of its supporters; and nothing
convinced him of tie weakness of the side he advocated, more
than the speech he had made. It had taken no other effect upon
him than causing him to think that the immediate rejection of
the Bill ought to follow.
Mr. BARHAM said, that as the best friend of these 329
slaves he demanded of the House to go into a Committee to,
hear their case.—(Cries of " Question !")
. .

Sir I. COFFIN said. he kiiew that the slaves of Antigua
were so happy and had such 'excellent masters, that they had
rather have their throats cut tomorrow than be removed from
that place.
The House then divided, when the numbers were-
For the Amendment - - 93 •
Against it - . 47 •
Majority against the Bill - -—5 l
THE BUDGET.

The CtIANcELLoa -of the EXCIIEQUEa moved
the Order of the Day, for the House to resolve
into a Committee.

Mr. HumE, adverting to some printed Papers
explanatory of the state of the Finances., which
had been distributed in the course of the evening,
expressed. his surprise and regret ,that any par-
tiality bad•been evinced in the 'distribution of
such Papers: Such partiality was indeed highly
improper. He.was aware that it was through
the favour.of Government•that such information
as the. Papers contained was given.to the Mem-
bers of. that House, but then such information
should, not. be confined to particular persons
Friendly to. the. Ministers, instead of being put
into the hands of those who, upon examination,
might be able to detect any fallacy which ap-
peared in those Papers, or to make an unbiassed
use of any correct information .-which they might
contain..

, .
The CIIftNCELLO it of the. EXFLIEQUIR declared
that he had no disposition ,whatever to sanction
any partial distribution of these papers, which
were intended for the general use of the House.
But the. fact. was, • that they were not ready for
delivery.,until a late hour, to-day, • and .he had
not himself received a copy of them until five
o'clock this evening.
-After several public accounts were-ordered to
be 'referred to the Committee,. the House resolved
into it.

The CHANCEL7.OR Of the EXCITEQUEIt then said,
the House having. now discharged its functions, by
voting the Supplies, whic-,h Ministers had found
it.their duty to ask for the. service of the present
year, and the Estimates having been printed,
and for some time past in the hands of the Mem-
bers of that House, he DOW felt it his duty to
submit to the Committee a statement of the Ways
and Means by which he prOposed that the-ex-
pence. of those Supplies should be met. The'
House were well-aware, that, for particular rea-
sons, he could have been happy to•defer entering.
on the subject to a future day. But, as-he could
not postpone the annual statement which it was
customary for the Chancellor of the . Exchequer
to make without rendering his conduct liable to
a serious misconstruction,. he had not thought. it
right to interpose .any delay, as he considered
that nothing short of the most imperious necessity
would justify-him in taking such a course, 'or in
suffering the task of bringing it forward to de-
volve upon any of his lion. Friends near him,
although he was sensible that the duty might be
discharged by them in a manner more satisfactory
to the Committee. Unwilling to intrude upon
them, he took upon himself the performance of
the duty, and would endeavour as clearly, but at
L tb sawe time as shortly as possible, to bring the

• • .•
Ways-and Means Itir;:the-present year. before the
House. In the fiatplacehewOuld state the Sup-
-plies which had i3"611 voted, and lie would then
enumerate the Ways and Means by
.which they
were to be met. The House had already voted—,
For the Army_ 7 ^ 7 - - - £8,750,090

Last year .the Grant for the. Army. was - -9,443,24 i
For the Wavy there had been proposed (present year) 6,176,700'
Of wkieh sum there remained still to' be voted--

10Q. 01. for a Giant upon' the Superannuzition
which had been deferred in the Committee
of... Supply until certain Papers could be produced.
The Supply foe the Ordnance of the present year
was - - - - - 1,195,100
The Vote for the last year for the Navy was - 6,519;,4i95
The Vote for the Ordnance last year was - - .1,109,650
For the Miscellaneous Services, the greater part
of the Estimates had been agreed to, although
some still remained for the future consideration
of the-Committee 'of Supply. He would assame
their gross amckuut to be in round numbers
1,900,0001, 'i'he totfel,amonntof the-Supplies he
had enumerated for the year.] 821 waSI4,O2I;BOQI.
The total amount of the same for the last year
was 19,673,6881. The House, therefore,_ would
perceive, that, if. they sanctioned. the Estimates
proposed proposed by Ministers as they had hitherto done,
there would be a- reduction of expenditure, as
compared with-last-year, of 1,65-1,8881. It would
be in the recollection of the House, that when, at
an early period of the,,Session, he had intimated
an expectation 'that a diminution iii the public
expenditure would be effected to the. amount of
a million and a -half ; there were not wanting
these who were not ready to assent to the proba,
bility of such- a reduction being accomplished.
It would 'therefore appear,- that, in this instance,
his Majesty's Ministers had' gone beyOnd what
the House had expected. To the supplies which
he had-already enumerated, there was to be add-
ed for. the interest of Exchequer Bills the same
sum that had been voted for a similar purpose
last year ; namely, one million. To this must
be added for the Sinking Fund on Exchequer
8i115,290,00.01. making, with the supplies which
he had already gone over, the total amount,

For the service of the present year -- • - • 19,311,800
The Taal voted under -the same Heads for last
Year was - - - - 21,033,688
It would therefore be seen that the .reduction
effected in the present year did not fall far short
of 1;800,0001. its amount being.. 1,771,888/. He
would now proceed to lay before the. Committee
the Ways and Means to 'which he had proposed
to direct their attention. In the first place the
Hobse had sanctioned the following :—Annual
Taxes, 4,000,0001. The House had' sanctioned
taxes to this amount instead of that of 3,000,0001.
at which they had been taken last year. The
reasons for taking them at 4,006,000/. for the
present year he would . proceed to explain. A
certain portion of the Excise Ditties' granted
daring the war, and which were to have expired
on the .sth of next -July, had been- added to the
Annual Taxes, instead of being continued to the
Consolidated Fund. The produce of these hav-
ing heretofore:amounted to a million, he had felt
justified in adding that million to the estimated
amount of the Annual Taxes. But it,was proper
to remark, that for the increase so claimed, a
corresponding diminution would be found in
another portion of the Ways and Means. This
would be seen in the very next article. The.
Committee would find' that the temporary Excise
Duties for the present year were taken at
1,500,600/. instead of 2,500,0001. at which they
were estimated last year. The ",reason of this
he had already explained, while stating the in-
crease in the Annual Taxes. The result was
this, that under the two heads he had enume-
rated, the .expected produce was precisely the.
same as last year, the amount. being 5,500,0001.
The Lottery he took in the present year
at 200,000/. In the last year it was taken at
210,0001.; but as the actual produce had fallen
considerably short of that sum, he did not deem
it prudent to take it at more than 200,0001. for
the present year. For the Old Stores he thought,
he was entitled to take 163,4001. The next item
to which he had to call the attention of the Com-
mittee, was in. its character somewhat noVel and
extraordinary, and required explanation. He
had just laid before the House, by command of
his Majesty, Papers by which it would be seen
that there was a surplus of the pecuniary indem-
nity due to this country from France; amounting
to 500,0001., -which was applicable to the public
service of the present year: He- regretted that
he could notlay before the House a detailed ac-
count of the whole of the payments which had
been made by the French 'Government, and their
Application. It had flot_ been possible to get it
made up in time, the payments not being com-
pleted ; but early
,in the next Session of Parlia-
ment,' he expected it would be laid
_upon -their
table. At present he would give the (louse such
information as it was in his power to supply from
' memory. It would be remembered that the
amount of the sum to be paid by France as an
indemnity to this country, had amounted to
125,000,000 of Frenehliyres, or about 5,000,0001.
sterling. From thie sum-the bounty, of Parlia,
ment bad taken 1,000,000/., which had been be-
stowed, in conjunction -with our Allies, as a do-
nation to the army employed in atchieving the
last glorious events of the
..war. The extra ex-
pences of the Army of Occupation had been pro-
vided .for by further deductions to a considerable
amount. The French Government, in addition
to the sums paid, as indemnities, had advanced
other sums to meet the expellee of the Army of
Occupation, which it had been thought necessary
to maintain in France. But as the allowances
for a Continental Army were not equal to
those rrequired for a British Army, a consider-
able expellee had fallen upon this country,
which, though .in the first instance met from
other sources, had - finally been paid out
of the indemnity. T.he sums issued by the
Paymaster-general amounting to 1,200,000/. had
also' been taken from -the same source. Other
payments had been -made for the Hanoverian
troops which formed a part
.of the. British army.
Various sums had been paid to individuals who
had claims on the British Government for services-
.performed. The French Government, pursuant
to the, treaty concluded,-had made a liberal pro-
vision for the relief of those who had .suffered

from .the spoliations of their armies. In some
instances, claims of a similar description had been
made on the. British Government. These had
been answered, and after providing for the va-

rious charges which he had described, and fut,
titer, after advancing to complete the fortifications
in the Netherlands, the sum of,. 2,000,000/. after
all this there remained a surplus of 500,000/. ap,.
plicable to the service of the present year, and
perhaps a small additional. sum at the winding up
of the accotints mighr,be 'applied to the NV,ay's
and Means of next year. THe hoped he..had
stated the outline of the -case intelligibly to the
house: For the particulars, of course, they
must wait until the accounts .could be produced.
The next item to which he had to call their at-
tention, was the sum received" in- repayment- or
Nxchequer Bills for Public Works, under an
Act passed in 1810. The sum realiSed last year
under this head, was 198,0001. In the present
year it amounted to 125,0001. While upon this
subject, he could- not but congratulate the
House upon the successful- operation of the
Act to which he had alluded. By the issue of-
Exchequer Bills which that had author;sed, most
important assistance had been afforded to the in-
dustry of the country, and several a public
works had been brought to a successful conclu-
sion, which had previously languished from -a
want of funds to carry them on. Upon this
subject, therefore, he sincerely congratulated
the House, that without bringing any charge on
the country, effectual aid .had been given to
those engaged in carrying on important, and in
many instances necessary public works, which
could not but prove highly conducive to-the ge-
neral good. The only remaining item to which
he had ,to call the, attention of • the committee,
was a surplus of the Ways and Means of 1820,
amounting to 81,6301. The total amount, there-
fore, of what was called the ready money pro--
duce of the year; it would be seen amounted to
6,570,6301.. In order to make this sum meet

the Supply, which he had estated amounted to
18,021,0001. it became necessary to take a loan
from the Sinking Funds- of Great Britain and
Ireland ; he therefore took from the Sinking
Fund of Great Britain, 12,500,0001. ; from that
of Ireland, 500,0001.--11 e proceeded to state his
reasons for taking this sum from the Irish Sink-
ing Fund, and thought it right to inform the
[louse, that in consequence of the diminution of
that Fund, for the convenience of the purchasers
of Stock in the Dublin market, to propose to ad-
mit the re-transfer of Stock, so that the holders
on both sides of the water might be enabled to
seek the most favourable market. To the sums
already enumerated was to be added an advance
from the Bank of Ireland, for permission to in-
crease their• capital, of 500,0001. Irish currency ;
being in British currency 461,5391. The ready
money produce, he had stated,
Amounted to - - - £6,570,030

. .
Adding to this the Loan to the Sinking Fund - 13,060,000
And the advance from the 'Bank of Ireland for in-

creasing its capital

461,539

The Total charge was • - - - £20,031,569
Giving an excess.. over the supplies of about 12,0001. The
total of the SupplieS and Ways and Meani' he then briefly enu-
merated. They were as follow's --
1820.. SUPPLY. . 1821.
9,443,243'Army - - . 8,750;000
6,586,695 Navy - , - a- •- •• 6,176,700
1,199,660 Ordnance - - - 1,195,100
2,444,100 Miscellaneous -.- - - .1,900,000

19,673,689 - . 18,021,800
1,000,000 Interest on Exchequer Bills -' 1,000,000
410;000 Sinking F and on ditto - - 200,000

21,083,683
19;311,800
•
(By reduction of Unfunded Debt,._viz•
9,000,000 Irish Treasury Bills 500,000 -
Bills for Public Works 200;400

706,400

30,083,688

-20,018,200

ed. for
1820.

EstiiniieTor
1821.