The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-25 00:00:00

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gave him an opportunity of substantiating s'clfarises-sscAsej ,
he again admitted- tire clmrges, and then 1140(sitesiVii:sls).?. 2
led
accusation. The House, however, in its se eVjuiti&li-,`" _t" s:?
,ss.,
said—" No, we will. determine nothin ssib,*:blll3/4-1 ---'--------'1
the Honourable Gentleman shall have `lL:fiktki.sk.i.s.-s--'"-'ss_!..,
oppportunity of explaining himself."—(Hemslum)rQ t t ,:i \T
He should wish to know, what the Hon. Mernbei-f a L'i` '''
Shrewsbury, and the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J.
Manners) meant by gentlemanly arrangement ? Why,
he thought no other interpretation could be put upon
his words, than that the charges should be substantiated
by the pistol. What, else could be understood, when he
said the Hon. Member for Beverley should apply to a
friend, who would at once get him out of any difficulty.
He (Mr. Roebuck) thought that after what had oc-
curred in this House within the last two months,
Such a suggestion was most disgraceful to those who
made it. It had been said that this question was too in-
significant to take up the time of the House. Let them
see how the matter stood. One Hon. Member rose in
his place and accused another before the House and the
country of acting corruptly. Again, he made a charge
against a Minister of the Crown of exercising the in-
fluence of his office for a similar end, and therefore he
thOught this was a matter, which called for the special
interference of the House.—(Cheers.)
Mr. SMYTHE said the Hon. Member who had just
sat down had made assertions which could not be sub
stantiated.—(Here the cries of " Order" and " Chair"
became so loud as to render the Hon. Member inaudible,
although by his gesticulation we could see that he was
speaking with considerable warmth.)
Lord HOWICK said he should strongly deprecate the
mode of settling this question which was suggested by
the Noble Lord' opposite. ¶le thought the House was
acting most unwisely in carrying this matter any fur-
ther ; and his reason for coming to this conclusion was,
because he knew that the House felt the charge to be
utterly groundless and deserving of contempt, and there-
fore he hoped it would take no further notice of it. If
they took any other course, they were bound to con-
sider the consequences that might arise hers after. Al-
though no one, for a moment, could imagine
the slightest foundation for the present accusation,
yet it was possible that at a future period some Minis-
ter
of the Crown might exercise his powers in such a
manner as to call for the intervention of the House, and
by passing the vete now proposed, it would be establish-
ing a precedent which would deter any Member of that
House from bringing the matter forward. The man, he
thought, who made an accusation which he could not
substantiate, laid himself open to that degree. of con-.
tempt and ignominy from that House and the country
which would be quite sufficient punishment for him if
he possessed the feelings of a man or a gentleman. If
the public were satisfied upon this matter without any
resolution, he could see no good that was likely to arise
from passing it. He could not see that great difference
between a false accusation made against an individual
Member of that House and a Minister of the
Crown. The House would remember that the
Hon. Member for Knaresborough had made as
attack upon the Hon. Member for Stockport a short
time since, when he accused him of acting contrary to
law, and compelling his labourers to adopt the truck
system. In that case nothing was done, yet the House
was perfectly convinced of the falsehood of the charge.
They had already occupied too much of their time with
this subject.—(H ear and laughter.) He again repeated that
while there were legislative measures of great import to the
country pending it was ridiculous in them to waste their
time in investigating this trumpery charge. He felt the
present charge was utterly false. But nevertheless he did
not wish to establish a precedent which would have the
effect of preventing the Members of that House from
criticising the acts of Ministers of the Crown when their
conduct was such as to call for criticism. He should
conclude by expressing his hope that the House would
decline any further interference in the matter.
Mr. HUME said he was never more surprised than
at what had fallen from the Noble Lord the Member for
Sunderland. He argued as if the Hon. Member for
Knaresborough were the only person concerned in this
matter. Mr. Ferrand had made a gross charge against
a Member of this House, and that Hon. Member sought
, the protection of the House. The Noble Lord had used
the word " contempt." Now, against no man in that
House had so many charges been made as against him
(Mr. Hume), and he invariably treated them with
contempt on account of their contemptible nature ;
but this was not a case to be treated with contempt. An
accusation had been brought against an Hon. Member,
that he was guilty of aiding in getting rid of Mr. Walter
from the House, because he was troublesome to Minis-
ters on account of his motions concerning the poor-law.
This assertion had been made, and was believed by a
great number of persons, and therefore, there was a
direct and tangible charge against the Hon. Member for
Beverley and the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of
State for the Home Department. Under this conviction,
he thought the case deserving of the special notice of
the House.

Sir J. GRAHAM certainly was of opinion that when
such a change as this was was brought fcrward by any
Hon. Member, it was the duty of the House to interfere.
The. Hon. Member for Knaresborough had made a
deliberate charge against certain Members of the House,
and, after an interval of twenty-four hours, when he
ought to have had time for due and mature consideration,he
reiterated it; and that charge was a most serious one, so
far as a Minister of the Crown was concerned, namely,
that he had used his influence in that capacity for cor-
rupt purposes. With respect to the charge which had
been made against his Hon. Friend the Member
for Beverley, he thought that nothing could be m•re
utterly groundless or false.
Lard JOHN RUSSELL thought it would be much
better if the further discussion of this matter was dropped
for the present. With respect to the observations of the
Noble Lord opposite, he thought it would be as well if
they, or any future ones which he might have to make,
should be deferred until the time appointed for the fur-
ther discussion of this subject, namely, next Friday.
Mr. HOGG concurred in what had been just ex-
pressed. He thought it would be much , better not to
press for any discussion until Friday.
Lord J. MANNERS said, that after what had fallen
from the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the
Home Department, and also from the Noble -Lord, he
felt it his duty to withdraw his motion. He would just
take that opportunity of stating that, in what he had
said that evening, he had not intended in the, remotest
degree to advocate the practice of duelling, as the Hon.
Member for Bath had charged him with.
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the original
motion, after a few words from Lord INGESTRE, was
agreed to.

COUNTY CORONERS BILL.
The House then went into Committee on this Bill.
Clauses 1 to 6 were agreed to.
Mr. HUME then objected to the Bill proceeding be-
fore such a thin House, and moved that the Chairman
report progress.
After a short conversation, the motion was agreed to,
the Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to
sit again on Wednesday next.
Mr. F. FRENCH was then proceeding to submit a
motion respecting the'Dublin Jury Lists, when
An HoN. MEmnEa moved that the House be counted,
and there being but 23 Members present, the House ad-
journed at a Quarter to Eight.

LLOYD'S SHIPPING.
THE CURRENTS OF THE OCEAN.

The following, enclosed in a bottle, was picked up in
the port of Isabella, on the north coast of. Porto Rico, on
the 18th March last, and has been forwarded to Lloyd's:
" MAY 15, 1838, EIGHT P.M.—Her Majesty's ship
Andromache, at sea in lat. 47 deg. 10 min. N., lon. 34
deg. 50 min. W., out six days from Plymouth—left
Scilly at nine A.M. of the 10th inst.
" During the last two days have experienced a strong
southerly current of one knot per hour. This bottle is
thrown overboard to ascertain the set of the current, and
it is requested that. he person into whose hands it "Y
fall will cause the circumstance, with particulars, to be
pnblished for the benefit of navigation."
(Signed by the Captain, Master, and several Offi-
cers, both belonging to the vessel and passengers
to Quebec.)
VESSELS SPOKEN WlTlL—ThejaltleS, from London,
17th inst., lat. 50, lon. 11; Ava Portsmouth to Quebec,
18th, lat. 51, lon. 10; Carisbrook, Belfast to Quebec,
same day, lat. 51, lon. 8, by the William Thompson,
arrived at Bristol. Bombay,
Augusta, Bristol to sth
ult., lat. 22 S.,
lon. 29 W., b the Golconda, England,
arrived at Swansea. Wilhelmine, Regenburg, from
e
thein China; 5 Nord,t
nl arrived
t ,ht.
t
in u
then o
Downs.s )-r e
s
oWoCtobyCh
2, lon. 24 W. ; Woodman, Clyde to Tobago, 21st ult.,
B Ayres, fat.
rBa, , lon. 67 7p
lat. 22 N., lon. 24 W., by the K ,1* an-mna, Rogers, arrived
in the Downs. Ulverstone, Feb. 12, off the Cape of
Magpie, Liverpool, to the
Good Hope, by the Ilumayeon, arrived in the Downs.
3d ult., lat. 5 S., lon. 18 W. Celt,
Contest, of Jersey, Rio, for Cowes, April 1, lat. 32, lon.
ff Cork.
N , lon. 21 W. • Adven
'helo6th inst., 47,10 n. 16 ; 'Marianne
'elßeY7oltimore American ship, 20th, lat. 49,
schooner
aohr,
pet
onb:oyfnLor
efoti
rihn
Gee
raojßpnooedodro:lH,
lon. 8, by the Ystroom, arrived off Falmouth. James
Vir, of Garlie's-town, for Rio Jaeiro, 11th ult., by:the
Jacob Kersting, arrived off Dartmouth. Cornelia brig,
of and ,from Glasgow, with loss of howsprit, and had
bore up for that port on the 17th inst., lat. 48, ion. 15,
by the Palos, arrived off Falmouth. Victory barque,
for New Orleans,
in the p
2lstuoltw.,nls. _,
at. 23N., lon. 34 W., by the
Emily, arrived

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