The Sun.
London, England, 1810-05-19 00:00:00

CATHOLIC QUESTION,

Mi. HERBERT, adverting to the lateness of the
hour, and to the prior discussion which Was expe6ted,
Suggt!sted to a Right Hon. Gentleman (:ylr. Grat-
tan) the expediency of postponing .his motion on the
Catholic Question ; a motion in. which the interests
of five millions of people were involved, and.'whicli
ought therefore, to undergo a fell and deliberate dis-
cussion. - ,

Mr, GRATTAN replied, that he was very anxious
that his important subject should be fully discussed.
If the debate on the Motion of the Noble Lord near
him (Lord A. Hamilton) should not extend to•a very
late hour, it was his intention, at le.ist, toopen the
question, and after a certain period of the night to
propose its adjournment.

• RESoLU-00/IS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord CPATLEItE ACIT W)Slled to ask the Noble
Lord opposite. 'to him a question, the answer to
which would regulate his cordu& on the approach-
ing discussion. What he was anxious to know was',
wriether the [notion which the Noble Lord was
.bout to subthit to the House; was of Such a nature
as to require that he shotildictire
.from the House
during the debate ?

Lord A. 1-lAmtt.Toll replied, .that his motion
would by no means require Such- a proceeding on
thepart of the Noble .totd-. Er went simply- to
expunge the resolutions of the .'.25 t h of April. Oa
giving _notice of his motion, be had expressly stated
that h was his intention not, to revive the origina'
question, but merely to propose the erasure irotn
the Journals of .Resolutions, which appearing in-
consistent with one another, were necessarily dero-
gatory from the honour and .dgnity of the House.
Refore he proceeded, he would request the Clerk to
read the 'Resolutions in question. • _
. The Clerk accordingly rad the -Resolutions;
which were -those relating to the ciondat of Lora
Castlereagh, in the appointment to a writership in

Lord A. HAMILTON• then proceeded. In mg,.
the House resolved that it was their duty to guard
against, any " attempt" to influence the .eleaton of
Members -of Parliament. But in the. Resolution,
which had been just read, the censure of the House
was mitigated on the ground that the attempt of
the sNohle LOrd had not, been carried into effea•
These resolutiOns were consequently. inconsistent
with each other, and this inconsistency had been
thrown in . the teeth of the' House in all the va-•
rious terdonsoeineeS and. petitions which had late-
ly been presented. As the subjeft on , which
the Resolutions were founded had been origi'
nally brought under the of. the flouw
by himself ; he felt it to be his pecoliar duty to pro"
pose to theeHouse,to re-establish their chara6ter 101
consistency, 'by expunging those resolu' ions. Its
this proposition. he Was aauated wholly by.a wish
:to uphold -the true dignity of the House by endea-
vouring to reconcile,their dottrine and their prac-.
tice. ,The last Seksion was a kind of alta in th''
history of that House. .-Up to that period, the
chase and sale of seats in Parliament had never been
Openly avowed. Shortly Jt'ter the adoptioo.
resolutions in question, 'a Bill was, brouot in to pre'
vent a pratlice whiclt antecedently to that period tlie
House not orily.disclaimed, but would not bear t°
hear alluded to. How far • their condoet had 5;30-
tioned the-imputation he would not pre:end ro say'.
-but he was clearly of opinion, that the inconsistenet
of the resolutions, which was a plain matter °f •fO!.
demanded corret ion. If any one thought that 'c
,would be more prudent to leave a part of the resold;
tioni untouched, . to such a proposition, he shoW"
;have no objet ion ; bin he maintained ,the necessitY
of expunging from the Journal.; that part as least itl
which 'the inconsistency consisted. However 9:1;
pWsant it might be- for the House, to rctr"
their opinions, it was muzh better that diet,
'should do so than that they should submit to "t%'',
imputations • cast, upon them, in spurt of 111;
opinion be' adverted to the case of Mr. Alexaod
Davison, who • was proSecuted and, fined fa
similar offence:, and to the petition from Hat
-shirersan which latter occasion, the lion. Ge0",,0
men-opposite talked loudly of the impropriety of
exercise of influence do Parlamentary elect La
also alluded to the resolution against Lord Cilat hollj
on'which occasion, 'although the Noble Lora iltej
the Right Hon. Geoilemian apposite ex6.lll)3ti
Lord Chatham front 'any unconstitutional intent
they voted' for a criminatory resolutiOn aOinst 10111
He' was anxious that the Howe should regain il:(-41
character (or consistency. Several pe;itioos
. been rejected in consequence of t heifeontainiog sie,s
timents on this subject, which\ were, neverth` ,t
founded on fact. The'House ooght not to all°`,,o,
to be- 41 the rower of any il-disposed per-ctrl LL)
that they..had one practice on their JutirtrAls,
anpther ut judging on- the petition& presi nted
them. The only: wise course which, io
the House could pursue, and by which alone ";010
couldmatntain their real-dignity was to espuoge
reSUllitibnS, which, as the Journals were .-trot jej
printed., would not in that respect be altc
with any prat tical inconvenience,. He 1136eico-
moved " that the entry be erased from OW

nals,"
Loon CASTLEREAGH felt himself per;onßUY
cerned,iwthe tpeitiorl, though N.obic LO4l
thought fit to direct a°39.' NO'
decision of the House. t ;;,;linst ;on,. 'roe ot)
ble Lord-eat:lJ only io say tint jtle
the House had come to condue.; uoe
wLich it was in proper for 'then, in come to 011
JI
of these two.. grounds. ' Ette.r t; the) "Lere„' tJ.
competent so to decide, or tti.it libt=r;;ve
conic tocv-soch `a -decision, they „light to
c;unle. to such a one in inS liie Lnler
'of his speech, tile Noble LORI had parti-c,.:lArlYl:eir
deavoured to demonstrate to- tile lion,e-
!.tecision was impt-oper.. He had contet;A"i
resolution of t779Vrecluded "them fro o:thvb,,'o'
the circumstances .of any case that tit: coo'',
fore thernp(that nature, and only left the:l) ts`''.;;‘;,l,
cute. the w,- inflid the ptinishment.dell3.;ll.
against an offender on the individual acct-W'b' of
rite Noble Lord had wished his moi;on not t°, coo'
a personal nature,. instead takiOg, the' hoe EV:
duet he .had -choseh, he would:' have brotls'); the'
Standing. Order, under the consideration 01 love
House. .He spetned to think they oughi w 0121
the power of, judging of the cireurnstances no,
nested the case on which ihey were Wero3'
nonnce jud:;rnt. nt, bur that whatever the
stances. annexed .to it might be, they 511001" ico,
the punishment due to au offender on -Abe

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nduidual, even though they should be of opinion tweets this country and Ireland, and establish a Coosa
that sucle punistimeet would be unjustly inflicted. ' gtitutional.conoection'between the Catholics of Ire-
Threreotion went to attack his collat.& indireEtly, land and this country, instead of a connection with
and I alh for a condeinnatiOn upon him, which,Under , any foreign powers. The laws of the country not
• -such circumstances, mat be more painful than if the . admitting the laity of those to fill any office in the
• ..motien had Been direCily brought against him. '1 a State whatever was the worst systein of policy ima-
' shicision of the House on his case, he thought, was • ginable. England Might say to Ireland ". fellow
; oaing not only to the transaelion referred, to having your own faah, we do not understand your ceeed,
taken .place, but from its being their conviction, but there is retie thing which we both tinclerstandand
that under all the circumstances, .no critninating feel the necessity ef, an eternal ';
separation from
1
reselntion was deserved. The Noble Lord's wish to French politics." That England might justly re-
.. - expunge from the-Journals the Resolutions of the quire Ireland, withourdegradation, to concede,-o,
House, because they contained no censure on him, ' Without that no Protestant Could be safe, and With
was wishing them. to pass an indire& censure-on his it no Catholic could be dangerous. With.this pro-
: . concha-CI, which, ie such a case, was most unjust to positron the Catholics of Kildare agreed• ; they knew
the iedividual. It he were to be placed in such u . that domestic nomination would not go. to injure_
... - new dioetion, being in effect again pat on his trial, ' their religion ;—..they had agreed to admit that prin-
he ought to be allowed to give any explanation of his , cip 9
le in 179, an th wou • not. h. ared to
.condue.t in his power, availing himself of such means : it if such effects d hadbeen
ld
elikely toave resuglte from
as might have grown out of the former discussion.: it. No religion could oblige a man to obey the
' The:Noble Lord professed to have no wish to make enemy of his country. He was for establishing
the question personal': He could not thank him fbr a ,domestic nomination, as that would most ef-
his clemency, as he thought the course taken most i, fectually tend to unite the empire, while a fo-
unjust towards him and towards the House. What- a reigo nomination must be an everlastig source of
ever he. might haVe tell had the decision of the i suspicion. That established, the rights of Protestants
Rothe been against him before, he should think hint- ! may be safely communicated to Catholic. But Eng-
self placed in a more cruel situation now, if the tno-
... land had no right to such a concession, while she de-
tion Were carried, as that circumstance would leave ' nied to them that liberty to which as subjects- they
the world to impute to him anything the most cor- 1 were entitled. Give them their emancipation; and
I rapt mind could imagine. If the decisions of -the i then you have e right to ex.peEt them to submit to
douse were expunged now, it would be thought domestic nomination. Parliament had no right to
that this conduct merited their censure before. This make partial laws or to frame' different codes for
Was the view he took of the question, which, think- various parts of the community, or to make disabi-
t unjust, he felt it to be his duty humbly to submit lilies under circumstances connected v.vith religion,
to the House. at the mariner in which a man worships his Maker-
- Lora FO LKSTONE contended, the motion of his does not materially affeet civil society. If a lawyer
Noble Friend neither went directly or indirectly to were to plad on the ground of a-disqualifying oath
Irnpeach the- condu& of the Noble Lord who had 1 e would be laughed at in Westminster Hati ; and
Just sat down. In the coulee of the present Session if a Judge on such rounds were to instrua a Jory to
4everal petitions had been rejected for certain cap- convict an accused iser,-on he would be punished.
. . linos. ex'preasions .therein contained. His Noble - yet on-such evidence had a fourth part of the corns Ilriend had observed, that there -were expressions munity been excloded from the rights*of subjects
Which were not talaen notice of by. Ministers, Mote of this realm. ' He then adverted to' the-question
13frenaive than those to which they had object- lay the six Universities in 1791, which were these
• ed.' To prevent their being again thrown out, be three.. " Has the Pope any temporal power in
proposed to expunge Cent whicle gave rise to.them - England ?" " Has the Pope any deposing power?"
troll] their Journals.. That was the object of his " Does the duarine of faiih extend to heretics ?"
• 'notion, end not to agitatd the question again. How iTo these the _most satisfaaory answers-.were given.
'the Noble Lord could think his Noble Friend defy- ! They denied that the Pope had any temporal power
cient in clemency, he. was at a loss to conceive, as in Great Blitain; and - abjured his deposing power
' 4 point of his speech was in the nature-of an
at-' i altogether'. Yet these questions had been considered
taco
k. He approi,-ed of the motives by which• his as the test of the Catholic claims. s:bey were,
friend was actuated, and should give the motion his, nov.vithstandiug, charged with an oath that went to
support. , • .
.. • i transfer their ailegiaece to another, and to the dis-
t
Mr. WARD strongly opposed the motion. It wag ; solution of civil society. --Iti answer to the charges
neither more nor less than trying his Noble Friend preferred against. them he would appeal to the
.'3l3posi.e (Lord Castlereagh) twice upon the same existing Government. Did they euppoSe the Ca-
eharge. At the time the case of the Noble Lord tholics were worse than idolaters ? The Cathulica
Was discussed before, it should he remembered he it should be remembered were Christians, but they
:Was one of his' Majesty's Ministers. He was then • seetned to think the followers of Cliiist. worse than
acquitted. WOuld it be well to give those out of .the followers of Maliornet. If illis were the case,
'doors an opportunity of saying the House of Com- they made a traffic of the attributes of omnipotence
"eons would ponisli the same person for the same of- and made the uthasore of criminally the price of
.lance, as bleb; while he was one of his, Majes- redemptiOn Bola servitude. Where argil-talents were
V's
over ? ellioiitees, they had thought proper to pass advanced hewoOld,attenal to thetn ; but when mere
, assertions were made against his co,untry lie would
° ,
.‘MT. Oftme :supported the motion, conceiving it to disregard ahem. He would not believe that It ish-
- a lauclabieeendcavour to do away the foulest blot man upon his oath who-- would so give evidence
that ever stained the Heuse of Commons, and on against his countrymen; ' That which was charged
the -grounds of its being quite distinct front the for : aaainst. Ireland could riot .proceed from religion ;
, 0
rater tnotione • ! they must therefOre look to physical or moral causes
Lard A. I-Tamil...roar, in reply, dhiclaitned anyper- • for the depravity complained of. It could not pro-
, scrtar aajack on the Noble Lord who ,A, as the subjeet - .oeed from physical causes ; God might puniih, but
of the former discussion. He Wished to support the . he could not corrupt. fie did not go to the door of
' dignity' of the House, and the
-Noble; Lord had not , the Protestant and stop .short of that of the Cetho-
Pointed out anY otheranet hod by- width his purpose :, lie. He did not poison' the Catholic side of the
14=°Uld so effectually be answered. He had not.: river, and bless that on which the Protestant resided,
urnught forward .the motion from a wish to flatter It must then proceed froth moral causes—from the
the feelings of a faction and gain popularity. If he '. -laws of the English Government. It could not pro
succeeded in getting the resolutions expunged from ceed frorn the-air of Ireland, it could, not arise from
the. Journals, he should think he had gained. a very the soil, stior could it emanate from the Virgin Mary,
the point towards re-establishing that House in from the Eucharists, or from the Councils of Trent.
!he esteem-of the, Public. Iflie failed- in the present ' The charge ought not to be made against the Ca-
. lusten.le, he should not yet despair of seeing the day tholica, but against England. The case stood thus,
Zhen -those resolutions which respeated the . Noble f England had been 'n possession of
.Ireland for a pe-
iellOrd, as well as the resolution concerning the Chan- riod of 500 years, and the result was the matchless
or of the EacheqUer, would be expunged trome depravity, of the people. The charadter given of
their Mtnue s. He would detain the: House ao fon-
,' the Irish. had no truth in it. The vices that deform-
ger, but-b -lure he resumed his seat, he again de- ,ed ita ' sprung-solely from oppression. He knew of
dared that he had no intention of trying the Noble • nothing that ought to withhold -from Ireland a full
"3/4°41 twice for the same 'offence, nor did he see that ` participation in the privileges of Englishmen. ' The
Ills motion, tied such an effeti, I fundamental laws of 'he country -did not forbid it,•
Mr. WARD and Lord cesTeetteeou•explained, • I or-if they did, why were they hot told so before the
The question
.was then put, and the Motion nega- Union, and now having taken their own Parliament
tilled without a division. - • away, say " you are atxciuded from ours by the
CATIIOLIC CLAIMS. . 1
- , fundamental laws of the country." He deified that
..
.
: any of those illustrious iustruiucnts otliberty, which
Mte GRATTAN 'moved diet the Petition which he . .
be Presented front the Catholics of Ireland shOuld it was impossible to mention but with reverence and
was gratitude, ddrls:tl the granting of such immunities to
e Put on the Journals as read. The petition
• accordingly entered. He considered the aulije& lie - Ireland. From the construction -put upon them, it
should, howeser, appear, that they said not only
Was about briugine before the Horse a's
.one of vital"
ttrareortance to' the best interests of the country; as : that no Catholic-shill be King, but that no Catholic
~ending to the enfranchisement of - a-considerable ,shall be n free subject. That on which such pp-
-I'l ot our own countrymen. If he should live to pression. was founded, was in every instance lawless•
e,,3- their petition acceded to, .he should consider This interpietation of ihe laws COMIllitS that violence
sure „.1, , -
against the. Catholics which it professed to guard
te oao a tierunwe man, as two immense advan- .
ageinst. It confirmed their allegiance, and took
ges would thence be derived to.the commuoity.—
away their birth-tigia. Would it be said that. it .vas
e''''. e should have the happinesi of witnessring the-
rigist to ad 'Wes towards the Catholics ? Was. it
4niricipati6a of our Catholic brethren in -.lreland,
: htleacirttsh,e right to tender the disqualifying oath'? - Parliament
consolidatiott of toe,British Empire in their
did not make men, nor their privileges neither; but
lie should ground his arguments on two
1/°ints-s first, oe the exclusion 'of foreign influence in men made Parliaments. l'he disqualifying oath
arose from the madtteSs of the Moment; it was no
111 e notnioation of Rish B:shops ; and secOndly, on
, ~',',.e extension of British pritileges to 'lrish 'sub eels. ' part of theelSw of the land. With resped to the
thekluwever Gentlemen iniefit ditYer on We subject of : Coromition 'oath, it didcbut pledge the Sovereign
to maintaiu the Proteatant religieri as it is established
, veto, all, lie thought must -agi:e in the prO- 1
,!liety ot inakirg some saii,faeiory - carat%% enient by lois. Theinterpretarion put on it was, that bet-
tering; the condition oPthe Catholic must necessarily
7111). ties great Catholic 13 ,cly. For his u wn. part, he
ci"as of great
tics veto might be granted without' injure or endanger the Protestant religion. This in-
41"ge: of its producing any undue or sitriater in- terpretation he objected' to, as it-supposed the la-as
„unce to their prejudice. The first Mae‘istrate to be irreVocable, and Penalties eternal. It was the
,o.2(rht
..
duty of the Chief Magistrate to guard the freedom of
K., to have a check on the Pope, and that the
his people ;' but taking his coronation oath, if
to
te..,.1g. was best Judge of the tenure-by which the al-.
sa,'6'inke of his subjeas should be held;, bin to this were as it had been interpreted, he called God to
e: Present-he thought the Catholic body would not. witness an unwarrahtablp, obligation. The penal
‘tirt, e, Pertaining the noinidation of a foreign power, laws' were enacted some of them' in the reign of
-.1.1 tit,; Ring had
.not a veto would oe .madness.-- King William; others in that of Queen Ann. The
s
e, did not say it would be so- if the Pope tacre in laws could be altered, but it should seem their se-
, ld situatiou, as being in that case but a spirt- verity could not be mitigated. Here were two oaths
ewe ita_ .
tttimsloagis yate, he could be supposed to have no broeghtato bear' on toe interests of the Catholics,
the one arising out of the madness of the 'moment,
et,inj..l nor Jurisdiction, and conseqeently no serious
the other SO iliterpre!ed,as to forbid a relaxation of
stir' ceeld thence be expected to wise to Ibis .
undue, severity. •It was said the Catholics did not
r,e,;, but when the Pope . bee tme a Frenchman,
hi., -trier a Preochman beebme '.•• !lope; to admit of want enetecipation, that they were too poor and too
' nr:lniwitioo was nut to . 1 , 1 . . • 1 ignornit to make use of it. Was he to understand
be t i teen( o, as the rus-
set-tee _:. France
to lest would thus e,,.;.v bed the' i'a le2a}' in- •1: by that that the severity of the laws had destroyed
1 the in ora tceducation of the people ? " Are our
• 1.,,,, 411,1. I It± wished to- re ‘t ,1....! ibt.• ilOiti:i2 linit6^
V.'" i ' ,\‘‘ N4ll ca lia&citySed stscit .o:1- a, -- I.liffe:e Cis be; ii. 'rune-')" said We Hon. Gentleinao, "_to be our
i J '

in that deteshble rant of I...inatirrf, and to
forget, that all (his inf:ened in a tli•
ligious as thlle-obtviun is p in, and ciancord
is.salvation. riellona had now slin! h."?' d'a'ps, BiA
-gotry had now spent her .fury. (Inefl, id re.-
sented a
.Petition against the Rofnan Cat:tolics
the City of Lou.on had not ;•sot;eral e:n.i.;iies had
come forward in their ta,,lnr; the Uriti rsity of
Oxford did nGt oppose them ; and. the Pulpit ae.•
knowledged their ciaims. He begged the ilouse to
recollect that in -179,2 it had established' Popery
North America ; that it hay; but latelrseut out an
artny to maintln' a co entry in all the right.: ztf thd
Roman Church: that there tv.as nut, a countiy
whicb it bac!• not embraced, bUtsone. •He moved,
that a Comm.ttee shoulcl.be appointed 'to eon4idet
the Catholic Pent:lola:.

argarrn'ents. Are we to say, We havo.broken your
hearts,--;;xe. have broken .your fortunes, and now
all we ask of you is to lay down your lives in our
-service ?" The Catholics, he contended, ~were
competent to discharge the funaioos of, manyoffices
in. the States They were increesings iu respeala-
,bility. Since the year 1788, they had purchased
great quantities of land: They Werenot so ignorant
as to,be tine evils under which they
were doomed to groan: It they ink a poor ignorant
Catholic if he wants emancipation, he. will reply,
" lie don't know Letin." But, if he were asked
this plain questioe, " Do you know the diffe'rence
between .the situation o a Catholic and -that of a
Protestant he 'Would immediately. answer ct•he
did," and bring forward his catalogue of sorrows,
-of insults; and of mortificatiens, arising from a
cruel partiality alike aid unjust. Would
they reclaim those they stigmatiaesl, let them re-
peal those laws which pressed heavy on the
tholice and restore to him that protection which as a
man he is entitled to, which as a subject should be
afforded to him. When such invidious 'distindions
were done away, the population would gain' an eles
vation of mind, the State an addition of ktrength. It
did not become us to -say we have elevated minds,
and liberty is necessary to us; put you nate
pour ignorant fellows, and have no ,use for . it.
When the mind of the Catholic was lowered and
debased by oppression, they j:repared him towelcoMe
a foreign invader. Who would with the greatest
energy resist Bonaparte ?—a Freeman. .He conjured
them not to say • that the Catholics desired civil ad-
vantages to use them aiiiost the Protestants. The
legislature that withheni civil l'herty on account of
imaginary danger was guilty of oppression. In tak-
ing the Catholic's rightful frarichiSe from him, we
endangered 'our own civil liters ies, in' subjecting a
felion.v subject to oppression. Our condo& was pre-
posterous in detaching so large a portion of fellow
subjects rrom our cause. It was like passing an ant,
with a clauie enaeting, Anat. as we are engaged in a
most .sanguinary cennia, and it is peculiarly desir-
able,that weashould be aided by the whole of our
population, a fourth pistol them are hereby disOuae,
lified from sera ing their country. Suppose a man
of war with., its enemy in sight, and a learned man
was to say to the Captain stich things occurred cen-
tunics ago, and such .canons were passed in the La- . - •
teran Council;, suppose his vessel to be partly wan- The Select Committee, appointed to consider of the Proceed-
tied with Papists, would he throw these seamen ings rind', and to be had, with reference to the several Fa-
overbuard ? The EMpire is this Vessel, the ark in
pers. s-gned '6 FRANCIS BURDETT," tree CWIU
e ODS 01 which
•-
related to. his being apprehended and comMitted to the
the French deluge, in it is assembled a people, one- .rower of•London,_. and which Papers were communicated
fourth of whom you would drown. He next came to the House by Mr. SPEAKER, upon .the 13th and 17th
the Ch days of April last; and to report such facts as they may
to consider erch'itself n the state of theitish think necessary, together with their opiniou therenpoav
Church -is Protestant ; the people are Catholics, vet - front time to time, to the House; and to whom the.inat-
ters stated by the Serjeant et AXrnt? attendig rite i louse,
pay for the Maintenance of it, and you take away
. -aai the Frocess served upon him man Action at Law. by
their privileges for eupporting ;to sacrifice to an l
Sir . 1 ..R A N S R okr T ; and also the SUIIIIIIODS SCrV,:d on
image dangerous to the people.and injurious to God, Mr., Sr EA K ER, and Cie Notice of Dec:Lira/ion delivered to you shoulder God fro'n 'beetles, and the people front
the Serjeairt at Arms, attire suit of the said Sir FRANCIS
Bult DET r, I,vere. reterred ; have, pursuant to-the Orders of
the, Constitution. Suppose the Lords Keamare and
the lloase, with all dispatch, considered considered the matters re-
Fingal tied seats in Parliament, perhap's they would i eerie to them, and have agreed to the following Report :
'form a conspiracy and tor what ?—to give a Fierich It appears to your Committee, after referrin
8.5:4013 7001. esyears*. Stippo-e a Preacher, reciting %he Ordet a the House of the tit day o: April r33',
ill his pulpit, should say, " LOVe your eneptiies-7Do • for the coimnitment of Sir Francis Burdett to t
aa,you avaell be done by, so may God tuclibe Tower ; the-Warrams of the-Speaker for that per-
your hearts to injure one-fourth of your fel-- pose ; the Letter of Sir Francis Burdett to the'
lows,". He was nut astonished at the sage who said Speak
al er, d ,ted the 7th d of r le e-
e globe was stieperted by an elephant ; this might port and examination ofay Ap
the Seriljeantast gatthe
ms,.
be laughed at, bat conceive the crutching of the • touching his proceedings in the execution of such
Omnipotent with a pcinl Code; take away- the,)a±hs, warrants ; the notices of the Speaker referred to
the elephant which supports this *Pahl lc; and • the your Committee; the dennand made upon the Ser-
whole tales into rum
.; such is the united system of jeaut at Anus of e copy of the warrant-under Which
modern casuistry. The Ttienext, argument against the he 'arrested Sir Fisnicis Burdeti ; -the Writ s rved.
. Catholics Might be reduced to six criminal propo-* upon the Serjeant, eud the summons served upon
sitionse Feist, that the majority of the Christians the Speaker, and. the notice-of declaration tiled
are the worst ; 2d, That a great part of Great Bri-, against the Serjeent ; which said notices, deemed,
taro must be in a state of abject, depravity; 3d, writ, and sumnions, are all at the suit- or on behalf
That it 'is incompatible with the fundamental Laws• of the said Sir Francis Burdett, and all bear the
of the CoirStitution to enfranchise the people of name of the same Seliciter, 'John Ellis :—That the
Ireland; 4th, That the country Which serves. his said proceedings have been brought against the
Majesty against their interests should. not be Speaker and the Serjeant, on accoupt ot what was
free. The two last he referred to the disqualifica- ' done by them respectively in obedience to the Ord. r
tion for every:right attending those who contris of tine House ;
.and for the purpse of bringing into
buted to the support of the- Protestant Church, all question, before a Court
of Law,o the leg-ality of the
which propositions were monstrous. From these proceedings of the House in ordering the,
must result the ruin of the Empire, which is but to merit of Sir Francis Burdett, and of, the conduct
of
divide the people in the-face of -the, enemy. In the Speaker and the 13erjeant, in Obc'dletlCC to that
Ireland two distinct penal laws were made, one Order.
swept .away the Trade, the other the Constitution ;' I.—your Committee, not in consequenee of any
of the Country, and the judicature of the Peers. doubt open tine qeestioa so intended tip be raison,
Having thus disposed of the liberties of Ireland, let but for the purpose of 'collecting into one such pre-
!us see what became of its fortune : so years after cedents of the proceedings of tire House, upon
the people and the Government were ruined, Go- cases Of Breach of Privilege, 'as might- afford light
veramenncould notsupport the people, it could not upon this important subject, have in the first place
even pay its reduced -esiablishincip ;it was obliged examined the Journals, with relation to the praJice
to borrow 50,0901. from England, and. 20,0001, of the House in, commitment of persoes,.w healer
from an individual ; it was obliged to beg at the Members or- others, for breaches .of privilege, by ,
doer of a private Gentleman to get bread for its offensive words or writings derogatory tethe honour
:army. It was said that one cause of this calamity and character of the House, or of atiy -of its Mem-
was that the people of Ireland staid at home ; they bens ; and they have found. numerutis -instances, in
did not go to .America ; they were obliged, hoW- the history of Parliament, so far as the JoUrnals ex-
' ever, to get relict in the exportation of one another; tend, of She freqeent, uniform, and /uninterrupted
without a free Trade they sunk into ruin. Cousidee prantice of the House of • Com Mons, to commit to -
so nanny millions of people, in a country blesst d different custodies, persons whom' they have ad-
with-fertility 'of soil, with temperature of eliinine, judged-gunty of a breach of their privileges by so
without any plague, and 'having nes enemy but its offstld,pg. ,
s own laws, sinking into ruin from the Penal Code ;- ' The :statemene of these precedents, 'Which esta-;
a judgment of God on the people for receiving it, blish the Law of Parliament Upon' this point by
He now came,so eornider the repeal in 1788 ; most the usage ot Parliainetit ; the utility of such a law;
of the laws which restrained the religion of the and the necessity which exists for its cantinuanye,
Catholics were then trinnlled, and personal freedom in order' 10-tualti rain the digeity and indeP.Th!ence
was secured by the Habeas corpus Ant, the revenue of the House of Commons ; its analogy
was made anooai, and the trade tree ; the plaet 1- acknowledged powers ot- 'Courts of Jus,ice,
au 1
tion trade was opened—the legislative pee er of the . the recogiticion of :Lich fight in various iostseense
Privy Conned, was'establnhed,
.and • ,tlie Irish Par- by legal. authorities, by judicial
.de'cisions, andeby
liament, whose privilege before only 'lay rest iv- the other blanch of the Legislature; as well ail did
hag petitions, was contirined in its furl Honours: invariable assertion and maintenance of it by the
what -was the consequence-? the exports soon in- House of Commons are, topics which may be re. -
creased one-half, the populatitin one-third, and the served fora further Report. And, although there are' •
cultivation of the country was enabled to feed on:an sortie instances in. Which the House has thought fit to
increase of a' million, and send a redundancy to direct prosecutions for such offences, yet the Com-
Great Brirdn : young Leland burst forth like the mitres:confidently state, that the more trequent prac-
morning, amid came again to she world as a young flee of the House, an all time, has been to vindicate
giant rejoicing in his strength. In 1795, 45 millions its (Ain privileges by its own authority.
Lit yardS of linen had been eeported, and so quickly' .2. The suojeet which appears to your Commit-
did prosperity tread on the heals of the statute, that tee to press must urgently tor an immediate. report,
national power seemed to stand on the right hand is, the state of the law and the practice of tie House
of Parliament. Religion then opened the gates of in cases either of criminal prosecution or civil action'
d scord, and Providence scourged the country so ra- against any of its Members, for any thing spoken or
pidly with events, that all seemed a continued dune in the House of Commons; or fur any pro-
series of causes and etieds. , The same principle seeding against any of its officers, or any other per-- •
.as then should now unite the whole, and you s m acting under.its authority.
should consider (said •Mr. Grattan) that our fiber- - The principal instances to be found under this.
ties and your empire are the same. He, now came head arose out of those proceedings which, in tho
to his conclusion ; he.wished, to avoid the dungeon time of Charles the First, Charles the Second, and
ot_ bigotry, and the mad-house of prejudice ?—to James the Second, were instituted by the of ce:sue
forget those wl o went 'so lar as ro forget their God, 'the Crown, in dtrogation of the rights and pi ivi-
,
• 's

Sir J. C. HIPPI3mLY seconded .the,mbtion, and
made observations of a considerable length, which,
from the low tone of the Honourable Baronet's
voice, were totally inaudible intfavery part of the
gallery. He read several authorities and extracts,
and expressed his resolution of maintaining the Ca-a
tholic right.

Alr:-O‘l.lAaA urged the necessity of . Members
having time duly Jo consider the subje4, and tQ
peruse such documents as were necessary to enabfq•
them to give a fair vote. .For this pttrpose he sloutti
move, that the further debate ')c abiourncd io TtiurS-
day next.

"rite question upon this motion was then pur i y
Vie Speaker and carried.

Mr. FOSTER brought in the Irish Strong Beer
Retail. Allowance bill ; was re a first
time, and ordered to be read a second ,ti.t.e on
Monday.

The other Orders of the Day were dispoqei of,
and at 1-131 f-past 0.. e o'clock the H.)use adjourned
till Monday.

SIR FRiINCIS BUIWETT.

PIRST REPORT FROM THE SELECT

PROCEEDINGS RELATIVE TO SIR ERA S:CIS

pE

[Orde:ed, by tife House of Commons, to be printed, r ith
May, a to.]

leges of- the CoMmons .of England. Those p.m.
ceedings were ressted, and resented by the House
of Commons ; were condemned by the Whole Legis-
lature, as utterly and directly contrary to the knoivn
laws and statutes and freedom of this realm, and
'led directly to the declaration of the-Bill 'of Rights,
sc That the freedom of speech, and .debates or
proceedings in Parliament, ought not •to be im-
peached or questioned in any Court or place out of
Parliament ;"—and your Committee have no hesi-
tation in stating, that this article iu the- Bill of
Rights extends as clearly to actions or indiEtments
brought, or prosecutions by individuals, as to infor-
mations or other proceedings directly instituted by
the authority of the Crown. •
The law of Parliament on•this subje&, so far as
relates to words spoken in Parliament, was legisla-
tively declared in a statute to be found in the Par-
_lament roll of the 4th of Henry VIII. By that Act
the rights Gird privileges of free speech in- Rona-
ment are established, and a special action is given
in fav-onr of the party injured by any action brought
against him for words spoken in Parliament. And,
from this statutejt appears that Parliament, at that
time, ,wberip the case Occurred,
_which 'seemed to
screw the expediency of legislative provisiOn to give
fuller force and protection to its privileges, made it
the subject of such provisions.
In the.sth of Charles I. an information was filed
against Sir J.
.Elliot, Denzel Holles, Esq. and
Benjamin Valentine,, for their speeches and conduct
in the House of Commons;. judgment was giveti
egain.t them in the King's Bench, they were sene
it need i.npri.ontnent; and were fined : In the
Parliament 'which met in 1649, the House of Com-,
IMYIS-; atter a report made of the state of the cases
of. Mr. Holles and the rest of the imprisoned Mem-
bets, in the 3d of Charles, came to several resolu-
flons ; by which they resol- ed, that these proceed-
ings were against the law and privilege of Parlia-
ment ; and condemned the authors' and actors in
them, as persons guilty of a breach of the privilege
of Parliament.
In-the reign of Charles 11. these proceedings were
again taken into - consideration ; and the House of
Commons came to several Resolutions. On the 12th
of November 1667, they resolved, That the Act of
Parliament--in the 4th year of ahe • reign-of Henry.
VIII. above referred to„is a declaratory-law of the
ancient and neeessary.Rights -and Privileges of Par-
liament.. On the 23d of November 1667, they re-
solved, That the judgment above referred to against
Sir J.. Elliott, D. 'Holies, and B. Valentine, Es-
, quires, in the King's Bench, was an illegal judg-
ment ; and on the 7th December. 1667, they de-
sired the concurrence of the . Lnrds. ' The Lords,
on the 12th of December, agreed with the 'Com-
mons in these votes
Your Committee next refer to the. case of Sir
William Williams ; the detail of which they pro-
ceed to'insert from the report of a former Commit-
tee of this House.
$ The case of Sir William Williams, Against
whom, after tire dissolution of- the Parliament held
at Oxford, an information was brought by the At-
torney-General, in the King's Bench, in Trin.
Term. 36 Car. 2, for a misdemeanour, for haying
printed the information against Thomas Danger-
field, Nshich he had ordered to be, printed when he
was Speaker,- by order of the House. Judgment
passed against Mini on this information, in the se-
cond year of King James the Second. This pro-
- seeding the Convention Parliament deemed so great
a grievance and so high an infringement on the
rights of Parliament, that it appears to your Com-
mittee to be the principal, if not the sole object, of
the first part of the eighth head of the tneaus used
by King James to suh.ert the laws and liberties,
of this kingdom, as set forth in the declaratioh, of
the two Houses_ which will appear evident from
the account given in the
Journal, Bth February
1688, (4f the forming of that declaration, the eighth
head of which was at first conceived in these words,
vklelicet, !‘ By causing informations to he brought
and prosecuted in the Court of King's Bench, for
natters and causes cognizable only in Parliament,
and by divers other arbitrary and illegal courses."
11th February, 1688.—T0 this article the Lords
disagreed ; and gave for a reason, 'because they do
not fully apprehend what, is meant by it, nor what
instances there have been of it ; which, therefOre,
they delire- may be explained, if the House shall
think fit to .insist farther on it."
12th February, 1688.—" The House disagree
with the Lords in their amendment of 'leaving out,
the Bth Article. But in respeCt to the liberty given
by the Lords in explaining that matter ; Resolved,
That the words do stand in this manner; by pro-
secutions in the Court of King's Bench fur matters
Tnd causes cognizable only in Parliament, and by
divers other arbitrary and illegal courses.' By 'which
amendment,. your Committee observes; that the
House" adapted t he' Article more correctly to the case

M

they had iu yievy ;' tor the information was filed in

4(ing Charles rite Second's time; but the prosecu-
tion was carried on, and judgment obtained, in the
second year of King Jaynes."
Thar the meaning of the • House, should. be
made More evident to the Lords, the House-o►der-
ed, ‘! That Sit William Williams be added to the

uanagers of theconlerence ; and Sir William Wit-

hams -11 W same day reports the-conference witlithe
Lords; and, " That, their -Lordships. had adopted
the article in the IA ords as amended by the Com-
mons." And corresponding to this article of griev-
ance, is the assertion of the right Of the subjett, 'in
the ninth article of the declaratory part of the Bill of
tights, viz. " That the freedom and debates, Or
proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeach!
pci or questioned in any court or place ow of Par..
liannent."

To which may be added, the latter-part of the
sixth' resolution of the exceptions .to be made in the
Bill of Indemnity, Journal, vol.-x. p. 146,, wherein,
after reciting the surrender of charters, and the vio-
tning the rights aa freedoms of eleaions, &c. it
proceeds in these words":--i“ And the questioning
the proceedings of Parliament, out of Parliament,
by declaratiOns, informations, or otherwise, are

....
ne
f rFs for which
some. persons tray be justly ex-
vejiteci out of the Bill of Indemnity."
On the ft ili of 'June, Iog, the House ordered,
‘,‘, That She #ccoyd§ of the Court of King's Bench,
elating to the proceedings against Will'ani Williams,
so. now Sir William Williams, Kilt. and iart. late
~ , ,

'j ;

The private accounts from Portugal all concur in
stating, that a general expectation was entertained
that an action would very shortly take place On the
frontiers, in consequence of Lord WELLINGTON
having advanced- towards the French. We are, we
confess, rather inclined to doubt the probability of a
battle, for, after the experience which the French
have obtained, they will not, we are convinced, risk
an action without such a superiority of numbers as
would render vidoxy almost certain; dnd under
those circumstances the British General- of course
would not engage them.

Mr. GRATTAN yesterday brought forward hii mo-
tion for referring the Petitions of the Cathol►cs of
Ireland to a Conitnittee. Sir J. HIPPESLEY followed
Mr. GRATTAN, and the debate was then adjourned
till Thursday next.

His ,MAJESTY and Princesses AUGUSTA and SO-
P.HI A did not ride out yesterday morning, 'owing, it
is supposed, to Princess AMELIA'S ill health.
Yesterday morning the Prince of WALES arrived
at Windsor, and after waiting on their MAJESTIES,
went to Princess MILLIA's house; to pat' her a viiit ;
as did also the Dukes of CAMBRIDGE and CUMBER-
LAND. .TIie.PRINcE ceturned again, and left town
at eight o'clock in the evening, for Windsor.

Extract from a Privii'e • Leiter, Bath, `fly
17 " This peaceable city was night
into the greatest confusion by th.• Mi-ndip Local
Militia, who an- here on permanent duty; ro:itmand-
ed by Colonel R•igers.' Some dispute .arose be, weep
the Officers and men respecting the marching gui-
nea, as they term it ;' a dedu.tioit was made from it
for trowsers, whichtthe men objected to, and some
of them refusing to obey the word of command;
were taken up and pu: into the city gaol. About
eight o'clock in the evenivg the privates them in a
large body, advanced to the Rrison, broke open the
doors, liberated their comrades, and carded them off
in triumph; several of the Officers were ill treated
for endeavouring to suppress the riot."
Thursday Morning, eleven o'clock.—" The Lan-
cashire Militia are this moment artite,d from Bris-
tol. Two troops of horse are expected in the
course of the day. .
Afternoon, hatrpast four.—" As our Post-office
' closes at five, I have only to add, that all is quiet at
present."

HANOVER-SQUARE.--Mr. BAdTLEMAN had last
night his Annual Concert at this place, and the high
merits of his professional a:al private character were
manifest in so crowded a room, that many persons
could not find a seat. The Concert consisted of one
of the most judicious and agreeable selections which
we have witnessed through the whole of the sea-
son, and was most ably supported by -Mrs. Bit-
LINGTON, HARRISON, Mrs. BIANCHI, and ~..RARTLE•
'MAN. The whole concluded with " God save the
King," which Mrs. BILLINGTON sung with great
animation, admirably seconded by BAIITLEMAN, the
whole of the audience standing during the time,
and venting their feelings in loyal acclamation.
MUSIC.—The second of the series of Concerts,
under the diredion of Mrs. BILLINGTON, NALD/r
and BRAHAM; took place on Thursday night, at
WlLLis's Rooms. There was a much, more nume-
rous company than on the former night, the flaw
ral consequence of the reputation which a Concert,
}supported by such powerful talents, must have ex--
cited. Mrs. BILLINGTON clikfly distinguished her'
self in a fine air by NASOLINI, purposely adapted la
'her great talents. NA LOS 'displayed great humour,
as well
,as taste and science, in an air, accom
anied.
by himself on the piano forte, A new song, by AT.
worm, was charmingly sung by BRAHAM. Mrs.
ASHE, Miss HUGHES, BELLAAIY, and other respea"
able performers, added to the general. treat, and
Mrs. FERRARI displayed admirable skillin a piano-
: forte concerto.
• A most barbarous and shocking murder was com-
mitted at Annesley••green, Bucks, on fluirsday last.
at the house of Peter Lloyd Tatchetn, Esq. on the
person of Abraham Hunt, who, with his wife, was,
left in care of the house. Whilst the old man an
p
woman were getting their suppers, at about half
,past eight o'clock in the evening, some person rapped
at the door, and on Hunt opening it, two meat
forced themselves into the room, and knocked MO
down. They immediately set about ransacking tha
house, having bound the old people; but not bein#
able to gain access into the study they again went_
below, and demanded admittance of Hunt. The co
man, stunned by a blow he had already received, 010
not quick in his answer, when the villains beat his
head in piece; in the presence of his wife: TheY
then left the house, and took' with them plate,
and Other articles, to the amount of iOtal. The
poor 1k otnan remained faster,ed to a set of drawers
until ten o'clock the next morning, when she W
discovered in a state of insensibility.
BON-STREET.--We are concerned to state, dolt
Mr. Gustard, the woollen-draper, of Red tord.:streetA
Covent-garden, who was lately robbed of cloth, to
the amount of t,4001. the particulars of which-hW
been fully stated, has been again robbed by his shop"
man, of several pieces of cloth,:Which was discovered
by his dropping some rawnbrekers' duplicateo in
kitchen, a-hich, on being taken to thepawnbroker
proved to be for some cloth belonging to Mr. GL's
lard, which was pledged with the shopman's great
coat ';
in consequence of which lie apprehended b/
Adkins.' Yesterday, •he underwent art examina-
tion before Mr NARES, and was committed for Inv
ther examination.

Two men, who have for some time past been LI;
tering Notes belonging to a Country Bank whic,
lately stopped-payment, were yesterday examine'',
and committed for further examination.

SHIP NEWS.

CRAVISEND; MAY 16.

Arrived—the Rosa, Ware, from Malta.
Sailed—the George, Davidson, lor Halifax.
MAX ;7. Arrived —the Bows, Dickson, from Trinidad.l
Perseverance, Arnold, from Lisbon ; Wanstead, Morton,
,from Jamaica; and the Zephyr, Williams, from Martini:l°e.
Sailed - the Diana, Penson, for Antigua ; and the iVier,
cury, Frampton, for Oporto.
MAv 18. Arrived—the Borogos, Vitund, Courier de L°ll'..
dres, Silver, and Lord Nelson, Phillips, from the Brazilsi.
Governor ;Milner, Hays, from larnaica ; Eliza Ann. A 6 re)'
and Isabella, Lincoln, from Lisbon ; Fanny., Jackson.
t
Nan-
cy,
Bermeil, Thomas, 1341, George Baron, and Aiel"r,
Collins, for Oporto.