The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-22 00:00:00

rbirb Wtittion

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock,

RAILWAY COMMITTEES
(THIS DAY.)

Group EE.
DUNDEE AND PERTH (NORTH) LINES.
The Committee on these railways resumed this morning at the
usual hour ; the Right Hon. F. Baring, chairman.
The Hon. F. Ponsonby said, that a meeting had taken place
since the Committee separated yesterday upon the subject of the
terminus, as suggested by the Right Hon. Chairman, with a view
to make some arrangement between them. Hitherto all negotia-
tions had proved abortive, and even that commenced this morning
had concluded without a settlement, nevertheless hopes were en-
t tertained that an amicable issue would yet be attained. Under
this anticipation, therefore, he should, on the part of the promoters
of the Dundee and Perth line, abstain from touching on the ques-
tion of terminus and the South Inch.
The CHAIRMAN suggested that both parties should refrain from
alluding to the subject of terminus altogether.
This proposition being acceded to, the evidence of witnesses was
continued.
John Miller, cross-examined by Mr. FORSYTH—The line he had
proposed between Dundee and Perth would proceed parallel to the
turnpike-road for several miles, more than a milo and a half or
which would be within ten feet of it. No prevision had
been made for separating the railway from the road, but
in their Bill they had suggested its being left to the direction of
the Sheriff. The height of the bridge on the Tay above the ordi-
nary high water mark would be 7 feet 2 inches. Was aware that a
communication had been made by the Admiralty to Lord Kin
naird, but was not in possession of its details. (The Learned
Counsel here read a letter from the Secretary to the Admiralty,
dated May 19, 1845, in which the opinion of that
Board was decidedly expressed against the erection of any
bridge over the Tay, inasmuch as it would entail con-
siderable mischief on the navigation of that river, but in the
event of its being found absolutely indispensable, they would
concede to it on the condition that it should be constructed at right
angles to the river, at an elevation of sixteen feet above the ordi-
nary high water mark, and that a swing bridge should be thrown
across similar to that to be erected over the Tamar at Torpoint,
on the South Devon line, having an opening of fifty feet
to allow of the passage of vessels. •With those requirements their
Bill did not comply, inasmuch as the letter was of so recent a
date, but their course could now be easily shaped so as to act
upon them. The length o f embankment through the Tay would
be in the first case five furlongs, in the second a quarter of a mile,
and in the third about a quarter of a mile also. The embankment
would require 30,000 cubic yards of earth-work per mile, varying
in width from twelve to seventeen feet, at a cost of one shilling
per cubic yard, and wanting 12,000 yards of pitch-work.
Cross-examined by Mr. COCKBURN, O. C., on behalf of the Scottish
Midland Company—Had not as yet prepared a detailed estimate of
the cost of the undertaking; but would have no objection to fur-
nish the Committee with the various heads and items of the ex-
penses, nor with a rough sketch of the bridge he proposed to
throw over the Tay, in accordance with the requirement of the
Admiralty.
Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant WRANGHAM for the trustees
of the Perth harbour—The chief traffic on the river Tay was
concentrated at the Penitentiary below the South Inch. He did
not think that there would be any difficulty experienced in the
construction of their line near Sleepless Island.
George Lorimer, examined by the Hon. Mr. Postsosry—ls one
of the contractors of the Dundee and Perth Railway. Has exa-
mined the estimates and items of the line in detail, and considers
them correct.
Cross-examined by Mr. FORSYTH—The amount of cubic yards of
embankment on` the entire line will' be 600,000/. ; estimates the
cost of the masonry at 12,700/.,-and the laying down of the rails
without sleepers, or anything except bare labour, at 11,0001. Ihe
sum total necessary for that proportion of the line which he had
estimated was 80,0001.
(This line of cross-examination being objected to by Mr. An-
drews, the Committee ruled that either the course should be
allowed, or the evidence of the witness altogether struck out. The
latter alternative being preferred by the promoters of the Bill, the
evidence was expunged.)
James Leslie, examined by Mr. ANDREWS—Is a civil engineer,
and being instructed by:the trustees of the Dundee Harbour to sur-
vey the proposed course of the Dundee and Perth Railway, and see
whether their harbour would be injured by the embankments to be
constructed on its margin, was of opinion, that so far from being de-
trimental, it would be of the greatest advantage to the harbour. In
1842 the trustees of the harbour contemplated the formation of
similar embankments, anticipating the most beneficial results, but
had subsequently abandoned the measure, solely from pecuniary
motives.

Cross-examined by Mr. FORSYTH—The time it would take to
pass from the terminus of the Dundee and Perth to that of the
Dundee and Arbroath was about four minutes. In January last
had made a report to the trustees of the Dundee harbour, in which
he said that: Dock-street, being only eighty feet wide, should
not remain both a quay and a street, and that it would be preferable
that a line should pass, if possible, in any other direction than along
Dock street. Had also reported that very serious injuries had been
inflicted on the harbour by the embankments already constructed.
Does not think the amenity of the houses Would be injured by the
line passing immediately by them.
Andrew Barless examined by Mr. ANDRCWS —IS a land-valuer
of 20 years' experience, and having valued the whole of the line,
had made.= estimate of 23,908/. 4s. 9d.
Cross-examined by Mr. FORSYTH—That is a high estimate; has
taken 185,205 acres.
This having closed the evidence of the promoters,
Mr. FORSYTH, on the part of the conservators of the river Tay,
commenced his rebutting case, by calling
David Stephenson, who deposed to the issuing of the original
prospectus of the Dundee and Perth Railway in 1844, in
which a bridge was proposed to be thrown over the Tay at a place
called Macdrum, about seven miles from Perth. That scheme had
been abandonei., when it was proposed to erect it at the South
Inch, which latter project had also been given up, and a third,
according to the suggestion of the Board of Admiralty, finally
adopted. He considered from what he could gather of the pro-
position that it would prove inconvenient to the traffic on that line.
The direct examination of this witness being concluded, and the
Speaker announced at prayers, the Committee adjourned.

Group E.

THE NORTHUMBERLAND ATMOSPHERIC LINE.
The Committee proceeded this morning to hear evidence in
favour of the opponents of this line.

Mr. Scott Russell's cross.examination was resumed for the pur-
pose of showing that his calculations were falsified by certain facts,
but his evidence remained generally unshaken.
Mr. Locke was examined by Mr. HILDYARD—The tendency of
his evidence was to prove that the atmospheric principle would not
succeed on a long line. The promoters of the system seemed
themselves not to have much confidence in It, as they never tried
it for any distance. It was only in such a case as that at Dalkey
that it could work well.

Mr. Harrison was next examined by Mr. HILDYARD for the
purpose of showing that the traffic of Northumberland could not
be worked by the atmospheric principle.
Mr. ALEXANDER objected to the reception of such evidence.
A short discussion then ensued, and after the room had been
cleared for some time for the purpose of leaving the determination
of the matter to the Committee,
The CHAIRMAN said, that the Committee understood that when
the traffic tables were put in by the Northumberland Company,
the traffic was proved to be sufficient to support the line. The
object of the opponents of the Northumberland line was to show
that the atmospheric principle was not such as to enable them to
convey that traffic, and on that account the Committee were of
opinion that the evidence could be received.
Mr. Harrison's examination was then continued—He stated
that there was an average of 715 head of cattle conveyed to New-
castle weekly, from the last week in January to the first week
in July. There was a market-day once a week in New-
castle, which occurred every Tuesday, and the cattle should
arrive the day before. He calculated that there would be 300 tons
weight of cattle conveyed on that day, allowing 8 tons per truck;
and there would be a traffic of 4,615 sheep, making 922 tons of
sheep and cattle together. 99 tons of coal would be the average
quantity carried daily, including the weight of the waggons. The
gross total would be 1,197 tons, conveyed on the day before the
market-day. The passenger trains would be 38 in one day. The
Locomotive Company proposed to run 44 trains per day.
The Committee not being able to proceed with the evidence of
the witness, in consequence of the absence of some diagrams neces-
sary fur its illustration, adjourned at four o'clock.

Group W,

The cross-examination of Mr. Hardy by ➢lr. lUonkliouse—(Con.
tinued from our Afternoon Edition.)—The vessels employed by him
and coming from the eastern districts to Goole, with corn, drew
about seven feet water, and their tonnage averaged nom 70 to
SO tons.

Mr. William Bingley, of Ellersley Lodge, in the West Riding of
Yorkshire, was next examined.—He was well acquainted with
the district between Penistonc and Huddersfield. The price of

lime now was 255. per ton, and he had no doubt that great quan.
titles of it would be used for agricultural purposes, if:it could be
conveniently procured. The present consumption would be greatly
increased if a line of rail was formed from the Knottingley quarries.
There were 50,000 acres of land in that district which required
lime. The usual quantity of lime used for an acre of land was

two and a half tons. The price of lime at the Knottingley
quarries was 6s. per ton. lie considered that the annual quantity
of lime used for the district referred to would be immensely in-
creased, if this line were formed.

By Mr. BOUVERIE—A great quantity of land bad been lately
inclosed in that district. It had been limed, and this had greatly
increased the value of the land. Previously to its being limed,
he had let the moors at Is. 6d. per acre for grouse shooting and
sheep-walks, but since that he had let It for 20s. an acre.

Mr. Henry Biggs, of Overton, Wakefield, was next examined—
Was managing partner of the Flockton collieries. Occupied 1,000
acres of land as colliery beds. Turned his attention very much
to the subject of the application of lime to agricultural pur.
poses. Had lately written a paper on the subject to the Geological
Society. If this line were formed he had no doubt but
immense quantities of lime would be applied to the land along all
that line of country. The average price of coal, at the pit mouth,
was 6s. 9d. per ton, This included the royalty of Bd. per ton.
Mr. John Walkr, surveyor and mining engineer, had been in prac-

tics for twenty-five y ears. Was well acquainted with the coal
district of Wakefield. There were ninety-one colleries there
within a circle of six miles. The produce of these mines
was sent to all the ports on the eastern coast. Immense
quantities of coal from this district were also sent from Hull to
America, and other places abroad ; and he had no doubt if greater
facilities were afforded for its transit to the coast, that this exporta-
tion would be increased to an incalculable extent. Upwards of
5,000 tons were at present daily raised from the beds in and about
Wakefield. Thought that greater regularity would take place in
the transmission of coal by railway than by canal.
Mr. Richard Pope, 8, Lower Thames.street, City, was joint
owner, with his brother, of an extensive colliery near Wakefield.
Shipped large quantities of the produce of this mine to London and
the ports on the eastern coast. This coal was known in London as
the " Cliff Wall's-end Coal." Made a railway of two miles, with a
tunnel of 9.60 yards. Before the making of this railway raised an.
nually from 35,000 to 40,000 tons, but since that the quantity
raised was much greater, The strike that had taken place in
the Newcastle collieries was the means of introducing to
a very great extent the coals of the Wakefield district, but
they were known in the London market before that. He had
thirty.two vessels employed in the shipment of this coal, and he
was very frequently unable to find as many vessels as he re-
quired. These vessels brought back nothing, as the delay which
would take place in unloading the returned cargoes would throw
the colliers idle. This inconvenience would not take place if this
railway were carried out.

The Hon. Mr. Lascelles deposed to the favourable feeling which
existed in Wakefield towards this railway. He knew many of
these who signed the petition which had been just presented in its
favour, and they were very respectable people.

By Mr. HARDY—Mr. Smith's house was of that class of houses
generally occupied by country gentlemen. Did not know whether
the line came within 'Jaffa mile of it or not.

Lord Pollington, M.P. for Pontefract, stated that the feeling of
the inhabitants of Pontefract was entirely in favour of this line.
Mr. Monckton Milnes, M.P., Pontefract, deposed to the bene-
fits which the railway would confer on the malting trade of Pon-
fract and the trade of Knottingley.
Mr. George Russell, butcher and cattle.dealer—Lived at Kel-
lington, within 16 miles of Wakefield. Purchased on an average
1,000 sheep in the year, and 100 fat beasts, which he sent to
the Wakefield market. Found that beasts were sent from Ham.
burgh to Wakefield in less time than he could bring them from
Goole. (In reply to a question from Mr. Wilkins, this witness
caused great laughter by saying that these Germam beasts
were called " Sir Roberts.") These " Sir Itoberts " ar-
rived in better condition from Harnburgh than his beasts

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