The Sun.
London, England, 1810-03-15 00:00:00

his Hon: Friend (Mr. Cc)wper).: a One the point*.
upon whicli'musi' had beeit said-by-the Fron.'`Gen-
tleittan on the other side was) resrAting.,tl*:.iiiifßl
Which had beenereCled at Vrilthain'Atbey:ll.393;s6l--
this part of the 'subjea 'lie begged Atfielititltf "6f'
the Committee while he •shortly'
was' the situation of-the country,- and What7il‘44e.}ilie'
circumstances tinder which 'those- WOrits were- deter:.
Mined upou. When he had 'the honour of Ring
the offlceio which he had .before•alliided,.he was
called upon' by hi 4 public duty CO look into the state
'the,. ordnance' stires, aid .particuttirijr into the
cillantity. of gunpowder"). and he believed that Gen-,
'tktnen. would. feel Some;-surpriSe When he
.stated
the result of tha n
tinvestigati a. 1., would be eces7
11. try to state,' for theinforination of the (A' immitt-e,
thit't he general consumption- c,fpowder, in timel
. of war, was-front•bo tofio;000. barrels yearly ; 'and
l en be made the inquiry to which he hadjustul-
ed, lienfonnd that In-the -11,0 st of-a most extew.
13ive -w.iri.the whole quantity 01-gunpoNtzder'thit'not
exceed .i4iooo:baprels, But This- vas fir of
this quantity a very great proportion was of .s).l4,:ft`
quality that • it IVS,lwt,,fitiiiiir the use of thdnaVt.
When. this failifowas ascertained, it became-the chi'ii"
of the Board.tofKirdnance to 'take: ineasures-tote
move the clanger- and-to remedy- the evil. This.:
dutTwas the moreitnyerious) when:the-great quan-
tity of powder.usedi io ac:tien was considered. In
ba.tile of t he tst ofitine;' or rather in the -battles
of-,I ay and fSr of June, 1794, there
14,trd' etpetuletrin Lierdlinwe'S fleet nut.:le,:s than
3100.0.barrelsiot powder. felt that;it was only'
necessary to make thiA statement, and then to leave
thetctod sense-of' the Coinrnittee to consider what
Was 4 'tie course which the Board of Oi-lnance was
'bound to. adopt Underfinch eircurns4inces. In the.
fist place, theu'Board of Ordnaticecatlect upon all
the -powder. mapuldeturers to de all they could to
sapply the public.: ; ante. 'The next thing to be dope
'Was to look to their own manu.aeturers, to see
What they
.could :produce. With the 'former, con-
‘ltatis w.e.he entered into and Government under;-.
iholt to.purchase all t.ie powder they would supply
for file 'years : -Li even this was town.l to. be 'a-
641fiicient. Oentlemen now found the.uselves
4'ery, easy, sitting in that House in perfett,;se.cu-
lily, as they undoubtedly were, but what :woulu
!tbey say, it upon a great publi.. emergency, they
Auld that a fleet or an artily was incapable of Laing
't want of powder ? 'What would Gentlemen S 2 'y
:16 those persons who, being at the head of the Orcl
fiance Departtuent, uiider tee cifctuustances he .i.ad
4kseribed, Ltd ri.,qued the public salety ratins than
lake any responsibility-upon the.mseiveS?
18. be stated, made these contracts with the powder

iNahuladUrers, the next thing .to be done was to
'oak to the capacity of 'the king"s .powciet-work,,
!Ild to itic:ease • them as ,twich as possibly. The
first of

;13ctiohof Captain Mu:,caster, who, he had
-very reason to . beiteve, had tahhinily (Ls-
charged: bis clu,y. Ent Captain Jlluncasterwss .
calleeopon to hasye thest• .Wbrics completed

}
. these works to wtech they turned their at, quickly; tie. h.id no time-to lose.- ".:I. knevV7esaid
tehtion was that-at Faversham, which. they
•feend Mr. Pole, " that the safety of thee-lout-nu. requited
-b,e to such a condition as eot to be capable 9ficli- - thattliese works shouldbu erected -with ail posSible
IPrloverue..t. The next work to uhich they &retied 'dispatch, andtherefore I oultl. net autft• auy delay
,11.qir attention was that at %Velthem Abbey.- lifey that could be avoided. I was constltitly uring eat-
ottnd upon . examination that . the_greatest quantity ' 'petition ; Captain' M. expected We to he upon him
li.lf Powder which .it •wras. possible to produce at these every hour, acid I sumtritnes was before day-light
caks was :10 or 11;090 barrels. annually. It was . in the motaing, and- when he was entrusted with
°und, however, that these werks, were-capable of the erection of a great pUblic work, ender such cir-
great improvement, at.d, they were improved to the eueastinces, I woulci not suffer him to tell me that uttrioste, Jar they no .v produ:e above 22,000 barrels lie could nut cloths,- or that,-• because he should he
II:N.411y. This object •certainiy. could not be ac- riblig-ed to ray the men (id-. a day more to, get ,it
hf)rt)Plished ".:t"ee° ----e- .5'.4-' -Axnetle for their ilime. . When the melee,- .e-reese. vr.,),.... ..t:.. -,---.1.1: s.
11 in faa "to double the . power; of these great satety was at
,stakr, I would hear no excuses of that
t'orks; but he believed that he works werejaccone; kind."- [lie7:e Sir Aim Newport laughed.] The
ArNished tit as Cheap
_a rite as passible. It had been Hon. Bakoner might laugh in perfect satety now,
that the Freach'riiiidetheir-po%;ider in barns, or but he would have found it no laughing matter to
1 tidings resembling barns; se did we; the is to have only
.10 or It ~000 barrels •of powder in store
„1., We 'Made bid' buildings of a slight textere;iii in such a war as thise He would not have ,bought
"der, as much as poi:ible, to diminish the dreadful ei,t alaughing matter if any of *our fleets or armies
they
eels of explosions.'_Aftitthottgketbey were sliglitelhati-,beeir disabled tram aeting for want of powder."
`",ey '.ere not cheap. He would, with the pere a illy.ing- made sueleobseryetions :is the subject , re!
Itllisslen of the Committee, explein the patnre.ef - 'eptrederespecting the works at Waltham Abbey,- he
es'ese buibings, being pertealy Nell acctain*lrtwilli SbnUld.povv notice wt,at lead been said respettieg the
~`,errl., for -he was, in a great degree,' the father of ,Works'at Wookecle He W ished the Hotiourable.
..,
"lese works, 'arid was :perfealy • ready to take upon :Gentlemen on the other side hid called the attention
e-
Mself all :the ,respousibility.eliatbeloriged
-to that or the Committee tc 41l the works erected, and all
ihiaraCter.. 'ln describing teethe Cotprnitee the na- the money" expended at Woolwich; that would.
•t re of these worts, he begged, in 'the.`arse- In, have brought the question to a point, and it was a
ItTrtee;' 'io. mention !the 'corning 'Arouses. :These questien- wl!iclehp.waa most. anxious to hate fully
7Puses-werein_a-maneer -4illed with -machinery of disieeeed. Lie greater part of these ..weeks. had
.:'ule nicest, and- of course ,of the most expensive been .errierencect aert .carried on during the time lit tire: !The . safety- of- 'the building, and "the . Ilirt'S that Lord Cl:iithm:.w.as. at the head of the Ordnancee
17 All the men em.pleyed in tt,.4qpe4l4eti, twon ihe In spea ieg of tat N.ble Lerd, oe must always
„leeiy • and exceilenper of , this machinery, ,and .he call him nis .agar friend. . Whatever Gentlemen
;reould vunture re>
,asscrt, that if by.enetinfortunete. might se; feapectieg that Noble Lord, he woold
--itlent these. works were 1)lown up, it wail:4 cake - undertake to i4seetethat_the.pullicewere under the
7Yeeeesix monthchelOre.ot her t nactduery ce,nlci. fzrc,aest. obligati Ons to: hiitin for the manner in which
~,Placed, -so as to enable thregn tOmake posrilere—s- 'le trail diset ar4‘ed the doves of that 'edict. and- that
& 6 .'lie-: Hon. "Gentleman opposite to lam --( Mr. - tlils:country never had a- more libeoure'!'ile or zeal- ~
threal) so-frerr ently pasei these
.worts Lt-TWal‘, iouslervant. ' If th-• Honourable Gentleman. had di- '
an? Abbey, -he ' p:estimect lie7knew the latnre. of 'retied his atteatioh to all the.wbi %iks '..llich ila.,) been
Iv'enre and keew- something about thestoves which erected at Woolwich, he would have tOuted that
vereeformerly: esed tue - drying eowder. These : .when Lord Chatham Caine to the Ordnance, Wobi-
20Yes were capable of containing 40 barrels of Istich wae in a very differeor. state 'from what it is
Keel 0 -
:13, er , which was dried upon -shelves, by Means -now e there
_wed absolutely no covering for thestotes
t' a copper, 'heated by an external tire. The.,proe which .were depesitcd lime. - Tile -state of • the
ress'wasidangerous and trcinetuLus,beyonddtscripr.
.Wharf was -then such that, the greatest:delay tura- ii'li • _General congreye, en Qtficer of whose te- voidably.took place in every equipnient that was car-
,:.,llts it Vas impossible te.,spe.ak too hi&laly, invent- yied.ori fromthat plaee.- , These delays were. o no-
a rnotle-of Arryieg ,poweer . by- means of. steam, .torious, that _ when any expedition was going on,
17
):•which all the danger was avoided; •but in order -.and persous at the head of other departments were
earry,his plan,, into, execution, vely considerable I inrgiug :those- under them to • use- 'dispatch, the
, Dences.were-necessarily incurred., It becatee ne- iFonsta,nt enaseereevas,.." do not be niieasy about
ir'sarii:-.to eredtexpensive buildings and wo'ks; but us, -we shall be iceidy before . the Ordnabce;
.„' object mai effectually' acComplistied, 'acid the Iva, may. be ewe. the- Ordnance" will 'be hied-
tfits W (.6 lra s now dried with the ireee perfect safety.eeriencedehesedifficultieS•him-
.o3osl.7' -He bad e
j%l'.'lothee great, source of expeoce in •11,:se, wOrks t .self soon after he cam- to the Ordnance, ; upon
"re, .Ithe.bnildings which had: been erected for re- tteingcalled upon to e e
quip anxpedition. ' The only
4bt'itig-and melting the saltpetre. The same most
,way . to. rerneoy this. :great inconvenience was .to
e leWicer to. whom he had before alluded, had_ip*. -.ereekahe Wharf; and-it was aCCoidingly undertaken
...,...Itted -a mode of melting the saltpetre after- it ivea lay Lerdrebatharp upon a great scale; and he begged
4rneed, by Which the quality of the powder wit , eleave to add, that the. What* was- undertaken upon
tecitly unproved. But when, they doubled .the a teguiarepian,. fully consjderededigested
„ and sys-
4)..,therpo,sers of, these works, it.becaine.rieeessary •temati zed. That plan certainly .waS not laid before
to
double the refining. and -'meltingi-houses,aedalso • Abe 'Hoest of 'Commons; because that was not 'the 1° enlatge the stores for saltpetre. All this cartairi- ,practicer of • Parlianierit. If Parliament wished to
,I 'cost. a great deal -of e-noriey. Besides, a great 'have flie-plans.er estimates of any works-of this'kind, .ee'al. of canal work was necessary; in short, the undout,tediy it had a right to yell "for them;- but it
..
4`)rkS .erevv extended over nearly three
;times the, eertainly was hot the prirlice to lay thein 'in the
4 ,IPace.they , originally occupied. It: was also neces- first itiAancebefore Parliament. He beggl d that the
~7tir to erect mills, and. very great tlitti-Joity indeed .;Committee woulu censider th::t in the eeuipi.nent of
s: found in procuring rnil)-stones. It was-not 0- 1-an ;eepeeirioe, all the -heavy work' fed te.otr the'
' rally linown perhaps, that the billy place froM ! -Ordnaece. When the transports were ready, the '
glitch 4,. .we used, to peicure mill-stones eas troth seldiene as easily .embarked ; but the embarkation
cog4.ltil,eis; but from the state ef,the Continkeit eve ; •,of 'heavy.caneon, ainmutti.ien, • entrem:thing • tools,
euld not obtain any there, as all commueicaieji 1 ex. was not so easily accomplished. In the late
alas cut off. - The- want or -these . mill-stoties
.; expeeition there, were not,. he believed, _less,
miq at first produce great ditficu!ty ;. at ./ettgth; for: 1 than seventy Otthsance transports elliplOyed, frOui,
...

\;‘)

. .
l'..h which tt
tunatele thfaety_wa•sionnd in teland,ipm w the Committee might form a ledgment
we ha, heen 7:atriply sapplit a:.He ..not now of the labour of that deptietruenee It lie were-ailkd
detain the CoMmitiee by.-entering into an enumera- • uean, now that These great impreetmenteehad been
tido the, adkantageee derived: fey the public twin made at •Woolxvich, to know how lung he should
firese 3.vorks; but in ad4itioh to the great object of take to equip l 5 ships, he shJuld 'say, « send
- -
procuring the, public a supply of this most necessary me three of them, and I ,will sutler my arm.to be
article, it. was. prOcuree4t•-a Cheaper rate than it- • - cite' ott.it Ido not then]] in Three -days, and I
could be purchased from the. merchantseand of a will compleat the whole ,in a, fOrtnight.'. if the
hetterequalq. - Indeed it was an. advantage to the -! seine question had been asked him when the wharf
keep up akind of, riValshiPbetweeir ;he was in its old state,' the anSWeer: would have beeire
kings Works and the. MeVelianti, fer the eorige-, that he would4frpoesi.ble, equif) the,:eatne nnmher
qUenteveas;.. that...the poWder supplied to the public of ships in six weeks. Surely this •was a roost
wase better:, There, eke beki4es,„ in other places, portent object „to-the country.. The old expression;'other winrks erected under be direslion of the Beard " Oh, the expedition is. waning for the ordnance!'
Or of daarile, WhiCh hail' veil.-tc6fiitifiMily'iticreetcl • was now heard no more.... He reniernbered that in
the -expenditure of that department. It always ae- an e4pe.dition undertaken, some years ago, it was a
peared to him a very great: atiStirdity, that with coal-Mon joke,-.4.hat Lord Melville and Mr. Pitt were
suc,h fiee&s
.as we i)oi-,sesAed, a snip., coming into at'Deal, wititing_for th& Ordnance. These- joke;
Portsmouth-Or Plytneesth -ereeld not get her powder applied no longer; the. Ordnance was ready, now:, changed"withoui 'Benifink.lt round to quite as soon as 'any- other department.
The Committee must be zneetre t hat •powder, What- Lord cluthatn'came 'to the;Ordhaeee, there were
ever core was taken of it, di f nut, keep -tirell•• not- no store-houses that were eeual: to the servi&
withstanding every, precaution, it would get damp. required.' There was no place at' Woolwich where:
EVery Naval 'Officer Would agree With him, in the timber could be stored, and-.consequently there-was
necessity, after, a -Ship had' been- some time et sea, no stock of fiukber, in consequence of which, the.
of having his powdel changed and re-dried. The gt.th-,caFriages tot the ships' were , made:of green
Begird of Oredheeee, in. order to obviate the necessity woe-id, and being painted before they were dry, they
of seeding the powder round front Portsmouth and" did nut list halt -the proper time; they becaine per-
Plymonth io didereet, at a d)iisiderable feelly rotten.: It was-the duty -of the Ordnance to
eXpence, at Portsmouth ..end Plywouth, drying remedy this evil, and they had remedied it; There
noviships had their roWder dried upOn Akete at WoolvViCh 'generally :ginicartiages for- 3a
•
the spat, certaiely at a eery grea expellee t saving oh expeee sail of the hue, Suppose, by any accident,. these
to the public: He begged leave, before he quitted . had been .btirni before any means had been adopted
. this part or the subject, to.say one word respecting for:haviog a stock of wood .laid,by to season, what
the Offievi ander.whose iuspeCtion these w.eks were I would The country have :said to the Board of Ord-
condte:-.led, because the Hon. Gentleman seemed to nance if such a calamity had happened,. and tint
I think that th_y had not been condueted with -eCo- i Board had no means of reeiairing,theless:? 'Would
ninny. The first oijeti, in his mind,,when any they not deserve the heaviest censure—would they
great public work was necessary to be accomplished; not deserve to be impraele,A Oie of his plans; and
was. to have the work done, He had always ap- he was ready ,to bear all the responsibilitye.was-
- to thoe perseus who, freed their, talents'and 'have a itock of ,timber for two years , consumption,.
charaaer, were supposed to he best qualified,. and
,and that was the reason why. it became necessary. to
whether the work wes. to he done by colittattiOr . have store-houses. Another objed'
to which Lord
:13)e estimate, his great orejeta was to liaise it done Chatham turned' his attention was,- to have a yard for
well, and done quickly. He certainly did tot over- carriages for the field train. The Ordnance used:
look economy on- these occasions, but; in his opi- formerly to •be obliged to 'apply to coatraielors-for
the first great point tolook ro was to have the them, and the: conserittenee. was, that they
•:.were'
work pertormee well. In all public works, it was made of very inferior materials•-e••that evil was now
absolutely necessary to place a great-degree of cqu-• alsO remedied-41e did not know wherlier:any fideece in the person deployed, and the only thing derma present had lately seen' these works; because',
teat could be dote was to take all possible care that i if they had, lie was sure they ritust agree with him,.
tee .chaeaeler arid talents -of the person so employed e that, they were not only highly lionoarable and ',lse.--
were buena-, to afford
.a rational -ground to expect ful to the country, but that they were consistent
that he would discharee,his -duty skilfully and faith- with true economy : They had certainly cost a large
fully. The whole of these wprks ;were done under r surniof money, 'but -he was' convinced that the'
the: ins tf -

. -
were in cad cheap to the country. Another ob/ -
Jett that engaged Lord chatham's attention was the
Laboralory, w hid) viras tornaed-:when the establigh=
meat w-

..as not one third so large as it is at present.
It was 'equal tbThe service for which it was required
formerly, but certainly it was not equal now; and
therefore no objeaion, he preSumed, could be made
to the.expendithre incurred under that-head. With
respect to the extension of the range for the pradlice
butt,. that Was al.;o a plan of hiS, and he must take
•the'responsibilityof it: When LordChathatn came
to the thdnance, he found above -seven thousand
ship guns lying thesie; that-had not been re-proved,
for it was found that, such .had been (he improve-
anent rriade in the gunpowder, that the old guns
would not stand the shock of what wa called the
•., J_ a . ULI S were givvu that no guns
should be used sill they had been re-proved; and a
. most fortunate thing it was that thisrorder was given,
for, upon trial, it was found that one in four of these-
guns burst; someef thrift- were bloWn into, innia-
merable pieces. These guns were proved at the old
proof butt, which formerly was a very proper place,
but from the great iecrease of buildings, :it becafne
no longer so; and upon this occasion several of the
buildings Were d:Jmageo, and a large piece from one
of the guns nearly fell onboard one of the hulks'.
It thenbeeame necessary to takethepradiee 1)44 for
the proef bott, te‘secure the people employed in the
Warren., and of course a new pro&ice butt became
necessary. Another source of great expence was, 'the
building of the new Academy: A.eircinn.stance oc-
curiedsonte time ago,which sheaved the necessity of
that treasure; meant.the contagious lever Which
broke out conseqtrence of the crowded state of the
cadetS: The.tneasurehad'certainly been undertaken
lUrc -thit 'event happened; 'but it *afforded the
strongest evidence of the necessity of adopting it. Art
ether source of great expence was the. Barracks. The
Barracks that were sufficient fur 5000 men would
not do' for 20,600. nieh ; it was-thelefore necessary
to enlarge 'theft.. 'The DriVer' etilp, which' was
very small when Lord ChgthAm came into office,
nOvii'ain'outited to Woo' temt7 and frOrses: It was
indispensable that 'stabling Atinld be built for them,.
and as-it was also necessary that they should be
taught heir business, 'riding: :too' SeS were else built.
'Andther source of great expense was the HOSpital.
He would uedertake to assert; -that there:was, not a
fitter hospital in Great Britain than that at Wool-
Wieb.. He bttged to ask whether any Gentleman
would serir;asly contend that, with an:establishment
increased to such an -extent-as had: been described,
it Would,have b'en proper that the hospital should
remain in the same state that it was vvben the.
tablishment only amounted to five thousand men.
Our field traih now amounted to above Goo pieces,
witiob was 'six times as' g'reat n'• 'it i.;s fOrtuerly.—
This increase of the train led to a great increase -of
expence, ner.,-aose, as these carriageS could not be
left exposed to ihet.Weather, it was neeeseiry to build
,store-houses for -them. 'Considerable expence bad
:also beeirincurred on the Repository, which Lad
been completed under the direction of General Con-
grete. This place.was designed generally fur the
instruction of those employed 'in the Artillery. .IVlO-
:clefs Of celebrated fortifications were kept there,' and
lectures given upen.the s6ience. He feared he was
exh:testing tbe patience of the Committee, but he felt
it necessary to state 'all these leas,' when Geniletnen
co:nplained of thegrea t expence incurred atWOolsVich.
The expellee cer: limy was great,but the public sere ice
required that that expence should be incurred, and
Lord Chatham would not have done his duty if he
bad a6tetl. otherwise than-he had done: 'But he
begged not- to by en'derstood as 'wishing to -avoid
investigation. He- had. no 'objection to. the fullest '
in, esugatien of • every part oi, hi's public condtiC.l ;
but lie .begged to etiter. his protest against a species
of argument wind) lied 'been 'used, viz. ' that
because there had, bzena- large expenditure, that
therefore there- must have been an improvident
wage of public ttioney, -Nor did '11(.1-think it! "List