The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-30 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.
(YESTERDAY.)

Group K.
LONDON AND NORWICH DIRECT LINE.
The Committee on this line met at the usual hour this morning, '
Lord Sandon in the chair.
Mr. Rodwell cross-examined by Mr. CIIAMBF.RS—Thetford is the
most unproductive part of the country through which the Direct
Norwich will pass. Has known the county of Sussex fur 22
years. There is a very excellent turnpike-road between Bury and
Thetford, over which there is a most extensive traffic conveyed
both by mails and waggons.
William Hubbard, examined by Mr. GIRDEN—IS a captain in
the navy resident at Bury, having taken considerable interest in
the various projects for accommodating the districts of Sussex and
Norwich. Attended a very numerous meeting at the above town,
at which Lord Jerrnyn, Admiral Sir Hyde Parker, and other
influential parties attended, when resolutions in favour of the
Direct Norwich hoe were almost unanimously passed. The price
of coals during last year at Bury varied from 225. to 40s. This
Article is at present brought from Lynn, where the trice is I Is. or
I 25.; and by the formation of the Norwich Direct line it could be
brought from that town or Yarmouth at little more than lOs. or
18s.; and, as between 16,000 and 18,000 tons of coal are annually
consumed at Bury, the advantage in that respect conferred by the
proposed line would be most considerable.
Cross-examined by Mr. Curtsies:as—Cannot tell what the pops'.
Irtiots between Chelmsford and Bury St. Edmunds is; nor is pre.
pared to say what the traffic on either of the competing lines would be.
Mr. B. Jennings, examined by Mr. ALEXANDER, Q.C.—ls a
coal and corn-merchant of Bury, where he has resided above
twenty years. Imports about 500 tons of coal annually. There
are fourteen other coal-merchants in the town importing far more.
Between 15,000 and 16,000 tons, coming from Lynn, are annually
consumed there. The present charge for freight be-
tween Bury and Lynn is ss. per ton, the toll
Os. 4d., and expenses for cartage at Bury 26.—in all, Ios. 4d. for
conveyance between the towns. He imports between 9,000 and
10,000 quarters of seed annually, or in weight about 500 tons.
From April 17, 1844, to April 9, 1845, the quantity of
corn sold at the Bury market was 127,955 quarters,
besides 4,000 tons of other seed. All this amount
had to be carried, by a very tedious land carriage, to the different
consuming ports; besides these estimates, taken from the
public returns, above one-third for which no account
is given should be added. About sixty thousand quarters
of barley are annually sold at the Bury market.
The cost for conveyance of seeds between Bury and London is 3@s.
a ton. Calculating the rate by rail at 2s. per ton per mile, the
charge, on the construction of a line to the metropolis, would be
11s. a ton, thus effecting a saving of 19s. a ton.
Cross-examined by Mr. RAWLINSON—There is a very large malt-
ing business carried on a'. Sttbury. Would prefer sending his
barley to Bishop-Stortford than to Sudbury. The nature of the
country between Bury and Thetford is unproductive and tire soil
very light. Does not know for what the land lets in the neigh-
bourhood. A great deal of oats comes to Bury from Lincoln.
A line from Lynn to Cambridge would not be a more economical
means of transit for that produce than by the proposed direct
Norwich. The cheapest market both fur foreign and home oil-cake is
London ; the cheapest mode of its conveyance to Bury is the water
navigation from Lynn, by the Lacke. The coal that comes from
Ely is inland produce. From Bury to Barton Mills
the distance is twelve miles, on which Os 4d. toll
is demanded for the carriage of goods. Corn would be more
benefited by a railway, as far as the merchants are concerned, but
coal as regards the inhabitants generally.
J. E. Lacon,:examined by Mr. GIRDEN—Is brother of Sir E. Lacon,
and has for many years resided at Yarmouth as banker and brewer.
During the late winter, when the water navigation was closed, and
the strike in the north existed, Norwich would have been left
wholly unsupplied with coal and corn but for the railway accom-
modation. The distance from Norwich to Bury, by Yarmouth and
Thetford, is 611 miles, and by Diss and Beccles 6'2. When the
various projects for accommodating Yarmouth were first brought
forward a Committee of gentlemen was deputed to examine into
the merits of each. The advocates of them all sent in their propo-
sitions, their rates of distances, and every particular, when the
Committee decided In favour of the Norwich Direct Line, and the
inhabitants of Yarmouth subsequently confirmed that decision, and
requested their members to support the Bill in Parliament.
Thomas Goocher, examined by Mr. Graonsr—Was formerly a
butcher at Bury, but from the n ant of accommodation between
that town and the metropolis left it a year ago, and now
carries on his business at Stortford. Has often paid as
much as 50g. a week for the carriage of his meat to
the London market. The country about Bury is
the finest grazing land in the kingdom, perhaps in the world.
Should a railway he constructed that would connect Bury with
London, by a route not longer than sixty or seventy miles, he
might return to his former town, but if the distance could not be
made less than 100, he would remain at Storford.
Cross-examined by Mr. RAWLINSON—By grazing country' he
meant turnip land, not grass, as in the counties of Devon, Glouces-
tershire, and Somersetshire. There is very little if any grass in
the neighbourhood of Bury.
The Speaker having been here announced at prayers, the Com-
mittee adjourned.

Group DD.
THE CALEDONIAN AND THE GLASGOW, DUMFRIES,

AND CARLISLE RAILWAYS.

The Committee assembled at hatf.past eleven this morning, but
Owing to the absence of counsel, the business was delayed for some
time.
Sir PRIMP EGERTON recommended that the only way to make
counsel regular in their attendance would be to mulct them in half
their fees when they did not attend in time.
Sir Thomas Phillips during the interval put in two agree-
ments, one of which was an undertaking on the part of the Glas.
gow and Ayr Company to limit their tolls, and also to bind them-
selves to shorten their line if the Board of Trade should consider it
necessary, and the second document was an agreement for securing
the erection of the station at Glasgow.
The question of the Delvine pass was then urged, when it ap-
peared that both the parties interested in the matter had sent down
competent persons to inspect the district and report accordingly,
but they were not expected to return till Saturday.
Mr. HOPE said it appeared to him that the most convenient
course to be pursued, would be to keep the question of the Delvine
pass entirely out of sight for tne present, and for the promoters of
the Caledonian line to proceed with their rebutting evidence against
the Dumfries line. There was little chance of any satisfactory ar-
rangement being come to in the present stage of affairs. The
Dumfries Company had been asked tc, state the nature of the pro.
posals they intended to make, and had been led, from a misun.
derstanding of the intentions of the Committee, to make such un-
reasonable propositions that the promoters of the Cale-
donian line could not entertain them. The answer that
had been given to their proposals was, that as the whole
question was before the Committee, and as it was evident their
ideas on the subject had been entiwly misinterpreted, the best way
would be to leave the matter entirely in their hands.

The CHAIRMAN said that the remarks of the Committee con-
cerning an arrangement had been entirely founded on the supposi-
tion that the Delvine pass was practicable, but there were other
matters connected with the general interests of either line about
which the Committee had not interfered.
Mr. AUSTIN suggested that perhaps it would be to the satigfac.
tion of the Committee if the correspondence that had taken place
on the subject were read.
The proposal was agreed to.
The first letter was addressed to Messrs. Bannatyne from Messrs.
Archibald Graham, Moncrieff, and Weems, dated the 27th of May,
and was as follows :
" Dear Sirs,—The Directors of the Caledonian Railway presuming
that, after what fell from the Committee to.-day, all past feelings of
rivalry and hostility between them and your clients will cease, en.
tertain a most anxious desire to fall in with the views indicated,
though not fully explained by the Committee, and are most anxious
to ascertain from you what course your clients would suggest to
them under the circumstances. We arc desired to assure
you that they are disposed and prepared to meet you in a
spirit of reasonable concession, and therefore request to
be informed what your objects are. The Caledonian
Railway Directors propose to meet at ten o'clock to-night, and
again to.morrow morning, in the hope of receiving a communi-
cation from you, it being of the utmost consequence that they
should be put in possession of your views at the earliest possible
moment.— We are, &c.,
(Signed) " ARCH. GRAHAM, MONCRIEFF, and
WEEMS."
The reply to this application was dated the 28th May, and was as
follows :---

"Re Caledonian.
"Dear Sirs,—We can assure you that there is not, and never
has been any feeling of hostility towards the Caledonian Company
on the part of the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway Company, and
the advances which have been more than once made by the Dum-
fries Railway Company, towards an arrangement with the Cale-
donian Company, must have satisfied you of their desire to meet you
in an amicable spirit. What we understand to be the basis of nego-
tiation pointed out by the Committee yesterday, was, that if the Del-
vine Pass was upon further inquiry found practicable, the Caledonian
line should join the Dumfries line (the Bill for which would pass
entire) near Thornhill, and that the Caledonian should be carried
from thence as a route to Edinburgh, Glasgow, and the north, only
varied so far as to run into the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway at
Croy and Ratho. If this is your understanding of the Com.
mittee's views, our clients, the Dumfries Company, are quite
unwilling to arrange that between Thornhill and Carlisle
their line shall be made available for the use of your
clients on such terms as (if we cannot ourselves agree) shall be
fixed by a neutral engineer, appointed by the Board of Trade. Our
clients, the Edinburgh and Glasgow Company, are also quite willing
to leave to a neutral engineer, appointed by the Board of Trade, to
fix such rates and dues for the use of their line between Croy and
the Scottish Central Railway, and between Ratho and Edinburgh, as
shall be fair and reasonable on your south and north traffic, and as shall
protect them against undue competition in their existing traffic. To
prevent, however, the possibility of misunderstanding, we think it
right to mention that the Dumfries Railway Company did not con-
ceive it to be the intention of the Committee to preclude the future
consideration of that portion of their scheme which consists of a line
from liawick to Carlisle, and which they are bound to promote to
the utmost of their rower. They still feel convinced that it is the
best route between Carlisle and Edinburgh, and one which ought,
for the sake of Scotland, to be executed.—We are, &c.
(Signed) " BANNATYNES AND KIRKWOOD."
Mr. Cocicauate said that the meaning of this latter communication
was, that the Dumfries Company intended to take all they wanted,
and leave the Caledonian line just what they pleased, and it was
unreasonable to suppose that he could consent to any such proposi-
tion without materially injuring the cause of his clients.
After some further discussion, the CHAIRMAN explained that, as
regarded the observations which the Committee had offered on a
former occasion, it was the intention of the Committee
to intimate that in case the Delvine Pass was found
to be practicable, they would willingly co-operate in
bringing about an arrangement between the different parties. As
the question at present stood the principal object would be to dis-
cover the practicability of the plan. He would take the opportunity
of saying tkat the plan as respected the Edinburgh terminus ap-
peared to the Coommittee to be susceptible of a considerable simpli-
fication.
Mr. Cowman entirely concurred with what the Chairman had
said with regard to the subject' of an arrangement, but, as there
was no evidence on the subject of the Delvine Pass before the
Committee, it would be useless for counsel to enter into any ar-
gument on the subject. It was impossible at present to decide de-
finitely whether the Delvine Pass was practicable or not, or whether
the inconvenience of the detour of ten miles, which would be ne-
cessary, in ease the branch were made, would be compensated for
by corresponding advantages. The best course now to be followed
would be for the Caledonian Company to proceed wills evidence in
disproval of the testimony tendered by the Dumfries Company.
This course having been agreed to, Mr. Maxwell, who appeared to
oppose for landowners against the Clydesdale Junction line, re-
quested to be informed if it was the intention of the Committee
when the rebutting evidence of the Caledonian Company had
been brought to a eouelusion, to proceed with the Consideration of
the case of the Clydesdale Junction Railway, as all the witnesses
were now in town, and any further delay would entail a great ex-
pense on the Company.
Counsel having conferred together for some time without
coining to any satisfactory conclusion, the difference was ulti-
mately adjusted by
The CHAIRMAN saying that it was the intention of the Committee
to proceed with the Clydesdale Tunctim Railway to-morrow morn.
ing, and that they also intended to meet on Saturday as early as
eleven o'clock, in order that they might have a long, hard day at
it.— (Laughter.)
The rebutting evidence, on behalf of the Caledonian Railway,
was then proceeded with.
Mr. HOPE called Mr. Robson, of Dumfries, who said that the
Nithsdale line was situate in a valley, and that It would not in his
opinion command any traffic except what was introduced from the
valley. The Caledonian line connected the three valleys of the
Nith, the Annan, ,nd the Esk, and would have all the
traffic which those valleys commanded. The difference in
point of distance between the competing lines with regard to