The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-24 00:00:00

MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

Messengers from the Lords brought down certain Bills.
VPSTRIES IN CHURCHES BILL.

Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN brought in a Bill to pro-
hibit the holding of vestries in Churches, which was
read a first time. The 'Lin. Gentleman then moved that
it be read a second time on Wednesday.
Mr. HAWES hoped the Hon. Member would not fix
BO early a day as Wednesday for the second reading of
the Bill. It was necessary that the Bill should be freely
circulated through the country, in order that the parties
interested might have an opportunity of becoming ac-
quainted with the provisions of the Bill. .That oppor-
tunity would not be afforded to them if the Bill were
read a second time at so early a day as Wednesday next.
He therefore hoped that the Hon. Gentleman would post-
pone the second reading of the Bill to Wednesday three-
weeks. _

It was ultimately arranged that the Bill should be
read a second time on Wednesday fortnight.
RELIGIOUS TESTS IN SCOTCH UNIVER-

Mr. FOX MAULE presented two petitions—one
from the Senate of the University of Glasgow, and an-
other from the students of that University—against
the subjecting the members of the Universities of Scot-
land to religious tests. He gave notice that he should,
that day week, call the attention of the House to the
subject matter of those petitions, and in order that they
might be in the hands of Hon. Members in time to enable
them to make themselves acquainted with the subject,
he Begged to move that the petitions be printed and
circulated with the Votes.—Agreed to.
•MR. FERRAND'S ACCUSATIONS.
Mr. FERRAND rose and said, Sir, I have dur-
ing this morning minutely examined into all the
speeches which I made in the manufacturing
districts during the Easter recess, and which have
been published in the Times newspaper. I have, Sir,
paid particular attention to the leading articles of the
Times, in which are certain extracts from speeches of
mine, said to bear on the Right Hon. the Secretary of
State for the Home Department, and the Learned Mem-
ber for Beverley. Sir, it is not my intention to retract,
one syllable which I used in those speeches, nor to ex-
tenuate or explain away a single sentence. When I
made use of that language, I asserted the sacred pre-
rogative of a free-born Englishman, and I expressed my
opinion upon the public conduct of two public officers.
Sir, I defy this Home to deprive me of that privilege.
The opinion which I formed of the conduct of those two
public officers is supported by the public press of the
country, and is backed by public opinion. But, Sir, if,
in making use of those expressions, I have in any way
wounded the personal honour of any Member—(Here
the Hon. Member was interupted by loud ironical cheers)
—Sir, the party spirit and unmanly bearing which was
exhibited towards,me last night, arid persisted in this
instant, should, Sir, remind those Honourable Gentle-
men—and I am sure, Sir, I shall be backed
with the feeling of Englishmen at large—that
this House is the last tribunal for them to appeal to.
(Here the Hon. Gentleman paused, took up his hat,
walked deliberately from his seat, and bowing to the
Speaker left the House. Sir James Graham who had
not observed this movement, rose to reply to the Hon.
Gentleman, but as he was laying his hat on the table, a
loud burst of uproarious mirth broke from all parts of
the House, and un the Right lion. Baronet's turning
round, and ascertaining the cause, he heartily joined in
the laughter, and resumed his seat. The laughter
and confusion continued for some time, and it was
again and again renewed, as Mr. Borthwick attempted
to address the House. After this lion. Gentleman had
remained upon his legs some time without being able to
utter a syllable),
Mr. ROEBUCK rose, but was met with loud cries of
Order, order," " Chair, chair," and much confusion, in
the midst of which Mr. Borthwick sat down. The Hon.
and Learned Member (Mr. Roebuck) said—Sir, I rose
to order.—(Cheers and cries of " Chair.") I am sure
the House, Sir, must have understo-Jd from what passed
last night, and from the transactions of last night, that
a most serious charge was made before this House
against a Minister of the Crown.— (Cries of " Order.")
However ludicrous may have been the upshot of the
matter--(Hoar, hear, and laughter)—
An Hole. MZMBER rose to order. He said the Hon.
Member for Evesham was in possession of the House.--
(Hear, hear, and cries of "Go on, Roebuck.") The
Hon. Member for Bath had not said one word to order.
Mr. ROEBUCK—Why, Sir, I have not uttered so
much as one sentence—(Cheers, and cries of " Gu on,
go on," and " Chair, chair")--
Mr. SPEAKER—The Hon. Member for Evesham
was certainly in possession of the Chair ; but the Hon.
Member for Bath rose to order, and he has not yet ad-
dressed himself to any question of order.
Mr. ROEBUCK—Sir, I rose merely to say that I
thought it pertinent to the question of order to explain
to the House now the serious circumstances which oc-
curred last night—(Loud cries of "Hear,"and "Order.")
Sir, I think that those circumstances may be regarded
as constituting a question of privilege.—(licar, hear.)
Sir, I thought that a discussion of privilege was to take
place this evening—(Hear, hear)—but an Hon. Mem-
ber rose and made a statement—whether satisfactory or
not I will not say.—(Cheers and laughter.) Therefore,
Sir, I rise merely to ask you, whether—after, what
passed in the House last night—it is becoming and fitting
to allow those proceedings to pass over ill so slight and
(ae Int luderstb`cid) ooutemptuous $ manner ?—!

(Cheers.) If, Sir, you do not think so, lam prepared to
make a motion.—(Cheers.)

Mr. SPEAKER—The Hon. Gentleman has put a
question to me on a subject w hick does not form part
of the Orders of the House, and on which it is not for
me to decide.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. Hogg then rose at the same time with Mr. Borth-
wick and Sir R. Inglis, amidst loud and repeated cries
of "Go on, Hogg,' " Order, order," &c. At length Sir
R. Inglis and Mr. Hogg sat down, and
Mr. BORTHWICK said that he thought that he
ought to have been heard when he was in possession of the
House. He thought that if the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman opposite wished to continue the discussion of last
night, he ought to give notice.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," de-
risive cheers, and continued calls for Mr. Hogg, to
which, at length, Mr. Borthwick gave way.)
Mr. HOGG •hen rose, amidst cheers, and said :—I
hope to receive the indulgence of the House, and I think
that I am not going too far when I say that the case is
a matter of privilege. An imputation of
interfering with the privileges of the House
has been cast upon the Secretary for the Home
Department, a Minister of the Crown.—(Hear.) But I
have still more the right to claim the protection and
justice of the House, as I was an officer appointed to a
sworn duty.—(Hear, hear.) lam placed in some dif-
ficulty as to how I should proceed, in consequence of the
declaration made by the Honourable Member
who is now absent. I hold in my hand
the speech of the Honourable Member which
he made last night, and whilst I read it I wish to
impress on the House that its meaning c :nnet be mis-
taken. I will allow him to comment on my conduct
as he pleases. I will allow him to say that we were
wrong in our decision, and that the law was wrong rn
which we acted ; but I will not allow him
to cast upon me imputations of being in-
fluenced by a Minister of the Crown in discharging
the sacred duty to which I was sworn as a chairman of
a committee. Hit be true that I had been euilty, or any
other officer guilty of such conduct. it well(' he yieir duty
to express yourself on the infamy of his conduct. But
if the charge cannot be substantiated I leave it to you
to express your opinion of the loan who has made it.
I am not sufficiently versed in the forms of this House
to know e hat. course with propriety to pursue ; but I
claim, as I think I have a right to do, the protection of
the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's
Gyernment—(Hear, hear)---and I claim the protection
of the Noble Lord, the Member f, it London, who is ever
anxious that justice should be done to every man, no
matter to what party he may belong.—(Loud cries le'
" Hear, hear.") I claim from them to intimate some pro-
ceeding by Hhich the opinion of this House may be
marked. Perhaps the most preper course will
he, that the House shall declare by resolution that
the charges brought ferward are false and libellhus.—
(Cheers.) The document I hold in my hand is the re-
port of the speech delivered by the Hon Gentleman
( Mr. Ferrand), wherein he refers to what he terms the
Right Hon. Secretary's (Sir J. Graham's) delinquencies,
in the plain-spoken fishion—(Laughter)—which is hie
custom, and in words which are well calculated to gain
for him the sympathy of every opponent of the poor
law. He says, in that speech, that " the meeting should
remember that no man had resisted the poor-law
more vigorously than Mr. Walter, and it therefore was
felt necessary by Sir James Graham to get him unseated.
Against that gentleman's (Mr. Walter's) return a peti-
tion had been presented, and in that petition an allega-
tion was made that between thirty and forty pounds had
been improperly expended. His speech went on to say that
the Committee to try this petition consisted of three
Whigs and of three Tories, and its Chairman was Mr.
Hogg, the Member for Beverley, one of the most pure
boroughs in the kingdom, but whether he (Mr.
Hogg) got his seat for 401. or not he
(Mr. Ferrand) did not exactly know.—(Hear, hear.)
This Tory Chairman, aided by Sir J. Graham, unseated
Mr. Walter. Mr. Hogg tried to explain away his
conduct on that occasion, and all the Government side
of the House on which I sat listened with feelings of
disgust while he higgled and haggled' in that expla-
nation.—(Hsar.) There was but one man on that
side of the House who vociferously cheered, and that one
man was Sir James Graham." Now, Sir (continued Mr.
Hogg), is there any human being who could read that
article without an impression that it distinctly charges
me with having been influenced by Sir James
Graham and the Government basely to forego my
duty, and to give a verdict for the purpose
of excluding from the House a person not
acceptable to them ? In a court of justice when
we seek the obvious meaning of a libel, we ask what is
the ordinary acceptation of its terms. I ask you to look
at this journal itself—to examine its comments on this
imputation upon me—and then I ask any gentleman who
has heard me read the extract, if he can have any doubt
that the imputation cast on me is that of having been
influenced by the basest and most dishonourable motives,
and having made myself the instrument of Sir James
Graham in unseating Mr. Walter from his place in this
House? I ask if any gentleman could have any doubt on
the subject? I do not complain of the terms in
which my decision has been spoken of. My " Nigg-
ling andliaggling" has been dwelt upon, my determination
has been dwelt upon, but of this I do not complain. The
subject was properly treated by the Noble Lord tht
Member for London last night, when he said. that whe-
ther my deductions were right or wrong—whether my
law was good or bad, that was nothing to the
purpose—that whether my explanation was sa-
tisfactory or not was nothing to the purpose.
I allow every one to form his opinion on these points,
and to express that opinion as they please. I confine
myself to the one point of the charge that imputes to me
impure and dishonourable motives.—(Hear, hear.) I
confine myself to this single point ; and when this
House talks of keeping its jurisdiction within itself
and of not resorting to another tribanal, how can it
commend the confidence of the public if it allow its
sworn oFfics,rs to be thus assailed ? I hope that those
who are more conversant with the forms of this House
than myself will kindly suggest what the proper motion
ought to be. My idea was, and I assure the House that
I never cemmunicated it to a singe individual below me,
but from the long standing of the Right Hon.
Baronet in the House, and from his exalted
position, he might be able to treat with in•
difference in this House what I could not
consistently with my duty pass by; and, as the sworn
officer of this House, I think I have a still stronger
right to request and demand of it, not protection, but
justice—(Hear, hear)—than even the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet himself. I ask the House if these are imputations
made on my honour and integrity in the discharge of
my duty, and, if they are, I call on the person making
them to substantiate those charges, and here I am to
meet them.—(Cheers.) If I had done anything to create
a doubt or suspicion of my conduct I should be satisfied
to meet the consequences, but if no man can state any
such grounds, or raise any such doubts in the minds of ho-
nourable men, then I have a right to the protection of the
House, and I hope it will afford it to me.—(Hear, hear.)
I, therefore, trust you will afford me that justice which
you can afford to me, andsthat is to declare that I acted
honourably in the discharge of the public duty
imposed on me by the House, and to stigma.
tise those who have cast on me this foul
imputation.—(Loud cheers.) I apologise—but I
feel I need not apologise to the House—(Cheers)—but
the House will recollect I did not bring this forward—
(Hear, hear)—l had not the slightest idea of noticing
it ; but when it was noticed in this House my personal
honour required that it should not be allowed to rest
there.—(Hear.) I have been told it was unworthy of
tny notice, and perhaps I ought to apologise to the House
for calling its attention to what was stated in a public
journal. But it was stated in order to poison the mind
of the public against me, and it was as base an insinua
tion as the other. It stated that I was looking for some
office or employment from the Government. I ought to
apologise to the House for noticing it ; I feel it humiliating
to reply to such a charge ; but on my honour, never,
either directly or indirectly, from any member of the
Government, or any person connected with the Govern-
ment, have I obtained, or asked, or sought, or applied
for, or looked for, any office, or employment, for my-
self, or any human being belonging to me.—(Loud
cheers.) This insinuation is as base and false as the
other, and with the exception of sending an application
to my Hon. Friend for the situation of a guager, backed
by representations from the place I represent, with
that exception I never asked for place or emolument for
myself from any Government past or present. I ought to
apologise to the House for this; but these calumnies are
sent into the world, and circulated by a journal which is
extensively read, and which ought to be above making
such imputations—(Hear, hear)—and I therefore
think it is my duty to declare indignantly that they
are false.—(The Eon. Gentleman sat down amid loud
cheers.) _

Sir J. GRAHAM then rose and said, the .House will
bear in mind that, at the very moment the Hon. Mt- In-
ber for Knaresborough resumed his seat, I rose for the
purpose of addressing it; and, Sir, I must remark,
after what has fallen from the Hon. and Learned
Member for Beverley, that in this House there is no
distinction amongst us. We are all honourable men,
enjoying the higest honour which in a free country
can be imposed on any gentlemen, that of being chosen
by be people as their rel;resentatives in this assembly.
—(Hear, hear.) I conceive that when the honour of a
Memher of this IHeu=e is assailed, the honour of the House
itself is is jeopardy, and that it is not the duty of the
individual Member to vindicate his honour so assailed ;
but that it is the duty of the House to ascertain whether
the stain cast on the honour of that Member was
well founded, If it is the opinion of the
House that the charge is well founded, it is their
duty to expel the Member guilty of dishonourable con-
duct, in order that the honour of the House may remain
unstained. The House will- recollect that last night I
waived my privilege of moving that the words
be taken do A n by the clerk at the table.
I am now limiting my observations to the charge which
the Hon. Member has preferred against myself. The
accusation was this:—l had used my offici.,l power for
the purpose of obtaining a false repoa. These are the
identical words. Yesterday I stated that I waived
my right to have those words taken down. I said
it was better the lion. Member should have an oppor-
tunity of substantiating his charge. I referred also
on this occasion to another charge, which in general
terms the Hon. Member for Knaresborough directed
against the Hon. Member for Beverley and myself.
The Hon. Gentleman said that the charge was contained
in a report of his speech which had appeared in the ?'lines
newspaper, and asked him to come down with that
report in order to acid the general charge against
:he Honourable Member for Beverley and myself
to the more specific charge against myself aloj.e. I
certainly fully expected when the Honourable Member
roue in his place, that he came down so prepared, and
to give effect to the resolution, I understood him for-
mally to have announced last night. Certainly when I
rose to address you, and comment on his extraordinary
omission on the first and substantial- charge
against myself, and also on his having for-
gotten what I understood . he had promised
in ref/relive to tho Hon. Maker for Rovrlfy, and I

found the Hon. Member for Knaresborough had I+-ft his
place, I inferred he had run away from thou charge he had
preferred against us. Upon his refusing to joiti
issue here, in the only place where such a
chage could be investigated, I for one, am most per-
fectly satisfied to leave this matter where it now
stands. The House and the public will be able to
judge of the conduct of the Hon. Member, and it will be
for the House to determine what course it is for them
to pursue under the circumstances.
Sir R. PEEL strongly advised the House, in a case of
such importance as the present, to let some interval
elapse before they should determine what course to pur-
sue. We cannot (said the ight Honourable Gen-
tleman) adopt, in this arena of free discussion,
where we permit the acts of public men and public au-
thorities to be discussed—we cannot adopt any proceed-
ing, either for the purpose of vindieatintr the ac-
cused or of censuring the accuser, without es-
tablishing a most important precedent.—(Hear.)
I think, therefore, it is most important, before we come
to ant• division: that we should look back to such recor.ls

as may be within our raach for the purpose of ascertaining
what course the House has taken under any eireunistaLN-s
at all analogous to these. The House will bear in mind,

that supposing a eharg‘ were prefixred against
a public officer, implying on his part great miscon-
duct, dishonourable conduct, by a member of the
minority, nothing would be so easy as fi
the majority to support thet public officer, to brand the
accuser, and to vindicate the accused.—(hear, hear.)
A precedent, therefore, is very important, and.
if abused, might be dangerous ; and consider-
ing the immense constitutional importance of
perfectly free discussion in this !louse, and
considering that all objectionable preeetlents ori-
ginate in some exceptional eases, wh, re, looking ab-
stractedly at the in lividual ease, indignant feelingspr, .mpt
to some sudden and precipitate step ; adverting to these
considerations, my advice to the House, taken as
I am by surprise on the present occasion, is to
adjourn the discussion, so as to allow time for thtet min-
ing what course should b r taken.—(llear, hear.) Sir,
I must say that since the day when the conjuror under-
took to compress himself into a quart bottle, there never
has been experienced grater disappointru-tv, than is felt
)11 this oeca-ion.---(Gr, at. laughter.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he had nor objection to
offer to the adjouramont of this discussion, antl he quite
agreed with the Right. Hon. Gentlumen, that it was ex
treaiely desirable to Like time to form a deliberate
opinion on a subject of this nature. At the :tame time
he had no hesitatii in to state at once what was his im-
;:ression. It was to have been expecte" that the Hon Gee-
lemon would that }lay have either repeated his charges or
tve withdrawn and naracted those changes
Te had tak.-n neither course, and lie had fled from the
large without abandoning it.—(Hear, hear.) The
lion. Member for Beverley, very naturally, in this state
of things. asked the House to interpose. lie understood
him most distinctly to ask the House to interpose on this
subject, after the statements which had been made.
lie added, most truly, that he was not the
person to bring this subject forward ; that so
far as it depended upon him, it might have
rested ; but that having been brought forward,
he could not rest satisfied unless the House pro-
nounced some opinion upon it. He thought the demand
a most fair one. The Hon. Gentleman stood in a posi-
tion of great importance. and every one who filled the
situation of Chairman of an Election Committee was its-
volved in the question, whether the House would not
think it necessary to protect Members in that situation
against charges thus lightly made, and thus apparently,
but not fairly and honestly, abandoned. With respect to
the course (continued the Noble Lord) which we are called
on to adopt with regard to the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man, the Member for Beverley, I think that that course
does not admit of any difficulty. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman has read from a newspaper an extract of a
speech made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough.
we have heard the Hon. Member for Knaresborough
state that that report is correct. I think, therefore,
with all due deference to other Hon. Members, and more
especially to you, Sir, that if the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman to-morrow put in that newspaper, and has
the passage read, that the House of Commons
then come to a resolution to the effect that
an Honourable Member of this House, mentioning, of
course, the name of Mr. Ferrand, had acknowledged
himself to be the author of the speech produced, and
that the House is of opinion that the charge contained
in that speech against another Honourable Member of
this House, is a false and calumnious charge.—(Cheers.)
I, for one, am prepared to take that course—(Loud
cheers.) If there is any one who, as the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman says, imagines that, for one moment,
there can be any doubt on this subject—if there is any one
who thinks that the Hon. Gentleman, in the discharge
of his duty, for one moment considered what course
it would be desirable for him to pursue in order to please
a Minister of the Crown—or that there is the slightest
particle of evidence to show that, in the execution of his
duties as a Chairman of a Committee, he in the slightest
degree permitted himself to be controlled by the Go-
vernment—if any gone entertained any doubt upon the
subject—it would be perfectly competent for that lion.
Member to give expression to his opinions. For myself, I
have not the smallest doubt on the subject. I think that
after the assertion of such a charge, and after such a

contradiction has been given to it, such a resolution of
the House as that to which I have alluded is due to the
Hon. and Learned Member against whom the charge
was brought, and also due to the character of the House.
—(Cheers.) The case of the Right Hon. Gentleman
is so far different, that he has not asked for the opi-
nion of the House. Ido not understand him to say that
he thinks it necessary to ctll in his case for any decision
,f the House. At the same time my opinion is, that
after the manner in which this matter has been stated,

some mode should be adopted by which an lion. Mem-
ber in his place, imputing to a Minister of the Crown
that he had procured a false report to be made by an
officer under his direction, for the purpose of bringing
charges against a Member of that House, was an utterly
groundless charge.—(Cheers.) The Right lion. Gentle..
man himself does not make any formal complaint.
I think it necessary that we should see
what resolution the House has come to on such subjects
on former occasions, when it has been thought neces-
sary to come to resolutions on the subject of the con-
duct of Members of the House. The last case in which
any resolutions of this description were come to, was
in the case of Mr. O'Connell, which stated that
all the Members serving on Election Committees had
been guilty of bribery. That was a general charge,
which I thought the House would have done well not
to notice. The House, however, differed from me in
op, inien and we have, therefore, a precedent on the
subject. I think that any general charge such as that
against all the Members composing Election Commit-
tees, ought not to be noticed; but it is different in Ihe
case of a particular charge —a specific accusation
brought against a particular Member, whether he be
holding an office under the Crown, or whether he
be entrusted with the discharge of important duties.
I am afraid that, on the one hand, if we invariably enter
into the general subjects of all insputations that may be
made upon the conduct of Members of this House, that
we should be involved in endless difficulties ; but, on the
other hand, if we pass over such imputations as those
which have been avowed by a Member of this House
we should render ourselves liable to the imputation of
being indifferent to the character of this Ileu-e.—
(Cheers.) I have thus stated, shortly, what my impres-
sions are as to the course to be pursued, and if any bet-
ter course can be suggested to-morrow I shall he quite
ready to listen to it ; and I think it would be better now
to adjourn the question till to-morrow.
Lord STANLEY—I concur with the Noble Lord in
the propriety of the House not taking any course now
upon these extraordinary circumstances, for I believe
that there is no case in Parliamentary history which can
fairly be made the ground of precedent for the extraor-
dinary circumstance which has occurred this evening.
I do not believe that, with regard to the groundlessness
of the charge made either against my Right Hon. Friend
Or my Hon. Friend, there is in this House the smallest
difference, or shade of difference, of opinion —(Cheers.)
I do not believe that a man here does not believe—that he
does not feel confident not only upon the charge
itself, but on the entire and absolute improbability of
proving them.—(Cheers) But more than this, 1 be-
lieve that, at the time those charges were ma 'e, the
Hon. Member who made them had not the slightest
ground for believing that they were true.—(Cheers.)
This beirg the case, the Member of this House rep• at-
ing those calumnious charges in his place hi this House,
is challenged to the proof of those charges, and with an
appearance of boldness, comes down to this House on
the following day pledged, as far as he can be isludged,
to substantiate those charges in the presence of that
tribunal to which the accused had appealed, and before
which he himself, in tiny bound, was compellrd to sub-
stantiate his imputations. On his second appearance,
when the case was ready to be heard—e hen the tribunal
wes ready to which an appeal had b-en made—what
course was taken by the Hon. Memb r for Knares-
borough ? It-was this teat, at the appearance of the
first outbreaking of that natural feeline excit d on Loth
sides of the House, by the unjustifiable proceeding of the
Hon. Gentleman, 1w detour, to the authority of this tri-
bunal, and eas s that thi-; as mhiy is not one to wli.ch
he would appeal, or ,which he would thank qualified to
judge of the propriety of nis conduct—that it was an
assembly between which aed himself, h. himself bad
stated, there exis!ed no sympathy of teeling---{Cheers)
—and adhering to the charge ehieh he had made,
not only declines to substantiate it, but with-
draws, without allowing the accused themselves
to express their opinion and their indignation at the
gross and libellous matter which had been brought forth
by him. Now in this case what course is the House to
pursue ? I differ from the Noble Lord in thinking that
it entirely depends upon the feelings of the parties. The
Noble Lord draws a distinction between the case of my
Right lion. Friend and the case of my Hon. Friend the
Member for Beverley. He said that the lion. Member
for Beverley hid appealed to the judgms-nt and had ap-
pealed to the protection of this He use, and that my
Right Hon. Friend did not do so. Now that is not the
question which the House has to determine. It is not ;
with respect to the individual character of certain Mem-
bers
alone that we have to decide—we are not to judge
by the indignation felt by one party or the contempt
which is shown by another. But it is for the House
to consider what course it will pursue for the mainten-
ance of its own character and its own honour. But I
am sure the Noble Lord will see with me—(Lord John
Russell made some observations across the table, which
induced Lord Stanley to sit down).
Lord J. RUSSELL then said—What I stated was,
that it made some difference as to the form in which
the House should proceed. As to the case of the Hon.
Minnber for Beverley. that gentleman could put- in the
newspaper and have it read by the Clerk of the House,
as it was admitted- by the -Hon. Member for-iinare
borough ;- but he thoughtethat in respect to his Right
lion. Friend, who was a Minister of the Crown for the
Home Department, the -form of proceeding should per- ,
hips be somewhat different.
Lord STANLEY watt glad tint OA Koble Lird had

given the explanation, and stated the distinctto
he had dra but he must say, that if they ts;e"oorLsoft(
notice of the charge against one Member, alluSerstbiso
the imputations which had been cast upon an— ge A
would seem to g take ive a sanction to the ealumni' as3llevw
only to repeat, that whatever course the ice
„DO
think proper to take in one case, they vv- 0 brv-t
same course with regard to the Other charg 'circ
forward of
by the same individual under glnuar
stances.
Lord JOHN RU4SELL had not proposed 01" )67
ferent course should be followed in the two cOrtsid
he had suggested the direct course they migb.
the case of the Hon. Member for Beverley.
The SPEAKER said there was no question a• fotO
House ; but if the House wished W come to 8140
determination on the subject, he would recoinole 110,
the newspaper, which had been admitted hi tlecr,
Member for Knaresborough, should be read hY,A",I
at the table, and then the House could COns'
further was to be done. Ag 00 w:
Mr. BLACKBURN wished to say a few be
Cbe,,r,
occasion. On a former occasion, when he Ife'eft
m 11 of the Shaftesbury Committee, he had before
and calumniously assailed ; and be canle,i„teHouse to claim its support. His slan"-1.10,11
shielded and protected by the Noble Lord thee 1'
for London, but he did receive support
Love
Noble Lori the Member for North
that would advise the House then, seeing thaLtitee''
to he given for reflection, to go back to the si.-00,
case. and he tru.ted that, in the present ins,tsl:oll's;
would show a little better feeling then. they "'jolt 4''';
Sir ROBERT PEEL trussedthe adviceedorlii
which had been giv. n would at once be let bfri,
(Hear, hear.) The House nothigniy
but would be in a much betwtermpidosiltoisoen than liv
tide upon the course that ought to be purstleaLdtqi
Sir R. INGLIS rose, but the rush of Pdacri-
n
door prevented him from being heard, a' r*v.
seconds, the benches of the House were Coe

empty. OY'
CONVOCATION OF THE CL•p--R
POT`
Mr. P. BORTHWICK rose for the POT het
poring the following motion for an " addres nipsol
jesty. priying that Ir. r Maiesty will be greeiei% ticsi'if
to sfford to Parliament, in all matters eccles'ootollj
advice and as:istance ef the clergy in cesY be,
sembled. according to the Constitution and t (4
usage of the realm." The Ron. Member eltbs i
minutes unable to proceed in consequence 0 deo
from Members quitting the House. Seme 'Ora,'
quiet having been restored, the lion. GentleltyPob
must claim the indulgence and forbearance O' 0t",,¢01
on the present occasion. The circumstances 109
Ile addressed the House, added to the dti,„,s;sts to,i
‘N hich surrounded the subject he had to stlntiOja)
consideration. That subject was no less t"""riu";
cherished rights and liberties, which it was theirtvl
privilege to defend at the present time, and $100011)
impaired to posterity. Yet to the greater.s, 0
those whom he was then addres'llea 0
more than the name of tho in'tltu 1;9
favour of which he was speaking, ",i..,541
This was not a question of theology; if it w-liril;i‘
place would have been the most proper for,,a- far ,y 1
forward. It would be well to know what 0 —.„,a,,,v
of the clergy was, what was its character, of yid
were its uses. At the original introductictiiecero
tiantty- into the country, the bishops of the hoot °ll,l dir
time to time collected the clergy to consult t srity
affairs of the Church. All matters of deetrinedi
cipline, and all matters relating to the etVetae V,
Church were discussed in those synods. In tafololse,'
of time those convocations were divided lot(' to V
of York and Canterbury. The Crown aillft.,;r- the to,
convocations in order to obtain supplies -ea. ,4114
service, they having the power of self-ta0.30-ovlo4'
year 1664, it was agreed that the clergy shat tire.
their privilege of self-taxation, and since theli 001' I
was a singular want of care in calling that te pits (
The convocation of the clergy at a time sv,ne ighl-se
bers shed their blood in defence of thell wej.,:'
ceeded steadily in a course of action to thlweiab trill,
at the present day, the salvation of the Deewhicbtfoor
tution from the tyranny and oppression, tot poli
brought to bear upon it. As a Member et of I°,l
he was called on to legislate upon the sukielbeerir,
education, and therefore he wished to bevel," et„'b.,
nity of those standing council to the resl7o'lley
been provided by the Constitution, and, '`',.,Or I
able to inform him as to the proper mode w „ar
be cop;
on so important a subject.
An HON. MEMBER moved that the lieutrs Pot,
and, there being only twenty-seven getorTtoall
the House adjourned, at Seven o'Clock, 10'
forismimosaffiMalplllll.... , sil
LLOYD'S SHIPPINucIostV,
VESSELS SPOKEN WlTH.—Hindoo L.,311 vies if•
South Wales, 7th ult., lat. 16 S., lon. 27' 11•1„;0 $,5,5/4''
land, of Whitehaven, 12th ult., lat. 1 5,,,,""t0.11.1071
Glenarm, New Zealand to Lonon, lat. 21,'44,10j;
Lady Peel, Falmouth to New York, 16IPI olio ir
long. 17 ; barque Pallas, standing Sa itoete'lliler
re
N., lon. 22 W. ; Victoria, Penzance tonrfrots ,
inst., lat. 47, lon. 17 ; Eliza Mary, of re at
Oil, fl'i
sina, 27th ult., by the Pillgwelly, arrived " il, I"
Rowlyn, from London, 13th ult., by the . sly
Speyk, arrived at Rotterdam. ilit,
LOSS of the JOHN DENNISTON, of T.9s9lllrdi
FOREIGN OFFICE, ArßlLejrA,
Sir,—l am directed by the Earl of Aheruh`oirtr2ll
mit to you, for the information of the et-ob t'loo
committee at Lloyd's, the copy of a disPe'toteloei
Majesty's Consul at Mobile, reporting the,f lii_og '
the British' barque " John Denniston,";,alw
near Cape St. Antonio. (Signed) '''''"
To W. Dobson, Esq., Lloyd's. 10,1,
(Copy.)
,„ 19t
MOBILE, Mlitji oeltdodi
My Lord,--I have the honour to in forte j 0 Jed
ship that the British barque "John Denntst°,:nselooof
master, from Liverpool to Mobile, ran es'*°"The alit
St. Antonio. Cuba, and is a total loss- ~t, tv/e, 0.114
arrived at Key Vest on the 12th instant ivi'hofi le of
the crew. The mate and three of the ere" t, 01
wreck in a boat for the Llavaanah, and bill' 1)
li- 91
been heard of —I have, &c.
/./, ° Etij.
(Signed) CHARLES F
To the Earl of Aberdeen, K.T ,_ &c. 86
or
. ,4
1/-
INTERESTING TO LAlos,joallA,A,a4'
To Messrs. Rowland and Son, 20, Hatton-g,arda4,Aord
Percy-place, Landport, Portsmouth, -4„•-oe t°,:f f,ril
Gentlemen,—l think it but an act 0f."1",5-ose '1(0'0
you of the benefit I have derived from tee oe- 0110
admirable Macassar Oil. About six Months padtiog
ray hair getting daily more weak and til;f `l...etll,°Plor
discoloured, from a practice I had adopted eatoZifo t
continually ; fearing that I should Jose 1,v,4,11:3
h-aring of the efficacy of your Macassar virestk'" Ade
some time past constantly used it, and the da rdc,,,,e'f,
my hair is now perfectly restored and 11,-;e141 erat
in appearance and colour, having become t"fise 0 1 l'ortol
glossy ; it also curls freely without the 4,...end10c00s
which it never did before. To all WY, —I as, "belenot
warmly recommended your Macassar Oil °AO' oill'r
restorative and preservative
.for the hair.
~ volliettelo
objection to see my name in print; I beg
this „' li;ao'
publish it; but you are at liberty to shoo or tilt 7
make any other use you please of it, and reof 1°
to me, if necessary, in proof of the WNW,' ' ib°
cassar Oil.—Your obedient servant, ' 1,4,
. . .
and
,0' it
Rowland's Macassar Oil preserves Anu •toesiievire,oll
Hair ; prevents it from falling off er, joari,4ll'
Changes Grey Hair to its Original t&olit" .
from Scurf and Dandruff, and makes it "-
, 0
and curly. Oii'•
Ask for " Rowland's Macasserk rfelts.
~f,
All others are fraudulent count
aooirojet
----" tbe Ile 01
fis
Sr. GEORGE'S DAT.YeSterdaY Watfld• ~lot
ci
nary of the death of the patrol Saint of E116."-,00"" OW
which is now called the Order of the Garter' of stx,oo
Edward the Sixth's time, called the Order )ted 'V' It
Ate figure of S. t. Goorg: on horseback, rep rese'v tli'3 i' 08
ern 1109 0 10
a spear and killing the dragon, was first Iv, .. ja fro ,t ,
of the Garter on the institution of that orae. bokoe' 0,
is suspended by a blue ribbon across the 0 pv44 lot;
shoulder. This patron saint of England as 001,0' opu'
reign of Diocletian, and being a man of gre„; conl„•oa4 De
favourite with the Emperor; but St. Corbeatis„'" 99
the Emperor of his severities towards the prig
a'
arguing in their defence, he was put .the
. or
headed, April 23, A.D. 290.

..11....51" '
BIRTHS.
a soonn,
the‘v lmlB survivediilst.,buatt ais,,shmoertn tin
uteh., „e sir OS° A, tile
On the 21st at Bath, the lady -- 401- o°
beo fl
lady of Major G. W. Fun' alyni,°--of the ci3r7trillegie(illet.fat°
sononantdheh2d2ra.
inst., at Clapham, the Wife ° th the
1060%, or
Deacon, Esq., of a daughter. 0 ' I.
Vo° '4O
On the 18th inst., at Withycombe, near- AAP
of John 11. Doyle, Esq, of a daughter. ;A) Ofr. ~pe'
On the 20th inst., at Colchester, the l'l' I,
Laing, Esq., of a son.loo le
~ street, ~,
On the '2oth inst., at Great Russell-- to
..„ percil the
Mrs. Butt, of a daughter.
On the 21st inst., at Gloucester-road, Deg WI 4ste'
..,,sor,,
R.Todd, of a son
ia((lo3).nnottfhhleei
;2.il,l,ssrtt
Eiinassrt.„.,
LaatltmuEcriazlKsuosd.,L.(o)fdag.bade;srilirrolebec6%,:;,oo;:tt:
Upper Tooting,
4OA 181 the 21st inst , Mrs Curling, raw ~,c
ingten, of a daughter. A o/1).
On the 22d inst., t Hampstead, the Ia.)!
a ttie
Esq., of a daughter. ~ositotet
f:01" g
MARRIED- British - . Jil A,
On the 10th inst., at Florence, at the rofi's,
Rev. James Faithfull, of Hatfield, HertB' tutii tit 040 fockt
of J. L Payson, Esq., United States Cons ad, Cli„ber, ,
On the 19th inst .gat St. Pancras, Sew"
~a f 0, Y
r 0 _ ftrov iv,.
the I°
mann, Esq., to Emma, second daughter 0 11111 -•
of Stamford-hill.
wter,,,il) fici
Wrsttel .1 Y"
On the 20th inst., at ..110-'
John Finlayson, MA. Christ Church Cat fi-
Albiot r
Elizabeth, eldest daug'hter of the late D'w 106
Argyll-street, Regent-street. 11*
.—_--------- 10" pi
DIED. ilotoil, .
~„ Pcii
On the 20th inst., at Charles-square, . ~
wife of Samuel Austin Fuller, Esq., agfrid ca.rt-t°77' 944
On the 29th of November last, at Lie 13,111 f, , ,
:
Furneaux Hunt, Esq williAte 01:11
i
On the 12th inst., Matilda, the 'O4O 01
of Sion-hill, Bath. IA 0'
w► lie. 6664
"
On the 18th inst., at Brompton-ro ,
Eltagei i'
son, of Camden-town. too6' lb $ll '
Inge cop Der]
0 0
On the 18th inst., at Huskards,
relict (A the Rev. J. golly, LL.D., itector,ooo If
Or
On the 19th inst., at Clanton Ilouse, -'''' CP ,ief.
P
Tewart, Esq., aged 80. ~--,,,,bester,
i. the
On the 19th inst., at Boley-bill, '-`-- tP
,r a , iiiC
Simmons, Esq., solicitor. rant, 0
Rees, Esq. .
On the 19th inst., at Lansdown-place aer 000
John hunter, Ittuen2ta-,hl.n.t aged 48- Gale, el
----H- 2'l°'
-- - - ---- - -- -- - ------- -- -------111:$'" pee,
London: Printed mid Published b 7 go 0..,
No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Thocz. otim
Strand, is, the Presiact of 0;44
liriddlaix, NrstigaZ kern
at Wigan, gerbet
____iov. $6l-1-40.11

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