The Sun.
London, England, 1821-05-31 00:00:00

EXTENTS IN AID.

Mr. W. SMITH asked the Right honourable Gentleman,
7hether Government proposed to introduce any measure in
nionication of the present severe mode of levying Extents in
Aid. •

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER •answered in
the negative, and added, that he had not heard any complaints
at,ramst the present system.
Mr. W. SMITH said it was in every sense most exeeption
able, And as his Majesty's, Government declined interference,
he should feel it his duty to make a motion early next Session
on the subject.
• CREDITORS OF MR. BURTON. •

Mr. S. WoRTLEY begged to call the attention
of the House to the case of certain Gentlemen,
creditors of Mr. Christie Burton, a Member of
the House for the town of Beverley. He was in
the custody of the Marshal of the King's Bench
at the time of his election, charged in execution
for It debt of one thousand pounds, due to a Gen-
tleman at Kingston-upon-Hull. He was released
by order of the House: The creditor had then
brought an action of escape against the officer to
whose custody Mr. Burton had been committed ;

but t 4 House interfered, and the creditor dis-
continued his action,- ih order that he might not
be ptinistied for interfering with the privileges
of the House: The creditor was now without
any remedy ; for as Mr. Barton was in execu-
tion (as it is_ called) at the time of his release,
the debt became extinguished in law. The ex-
pence which had fallen upon the parties to,the
tvit brought against. the Wth'ikn of theiFlA.pc--in.
,consequence ci Vie order oiLtrim House, was not
less than 3,0001. Ile admitted the propriety or,
that proceeding on the•part of the House, as after •
issuing the first order for the discharge of the
Member, it would not have been -just to-have
allowed the onus to fall on the Warden. „In-
deed he -was sure, from the commencement, that
the action would end as it had done, in- the in-,
terference- of the House. It was for these-.rea-
-sons, seeing that the creditors of this Gentleman
had not only been foiled in their endeavours to
obtain their just rights, but had also great addi-
tional burthens cast on them by the steps taken
by that House, that he should move for a Com-

mittee, of the whole House to consider of an Ad-
dress to his Majesty to grant a sum of money in
compensation. If the House should-agree to that
motion, he should propose a Resolution to.the
effect that no candidate for a seat in that
House should be deemed eligible acrainst whom
an -execution should be in force at the time of his
Offering himself as a candidate. That -•was a -Re-
solutio❑ whkh he really thought had become ne.
Ossary, nor could he in any way view it as an
attack upon the privilege; of the _House. The
Hon. Member concluded by moving—" That the
House resolve itself into a Committee to consider
of an .Address to his Majesty to grant a sum of
money by way of compensation to certain credi-
tors of Mr. Burton, Merriber for Beverley iu the
last Parliament."

Mr. W YNNE did not think that this was_a case
at all calling for the interference of Parliament.
He could not conceive any thing to be more ex-
plicit than the Act of Charles I. on that subject.
That Act tlistinaly stated that the -privilege .of
Parliament did not operate beyond the period.of
the Session in which it was exercised. .Under
these circumstances the •parties had nothing to do
but to cause a new writ of execution to be issued,
with which the House could not interfere ; nor
could the exercise of that privilege on a:former
occasion,at all prejudice the case of these credi-
tors. With respect to the Resolution the lion.
Member spoke of, it went to make an alteratku
in the law of a very grave nature, and he was
'not prepared to admit such an alteration, without
adequate deliberation. The Hon. •Gentleman
might bring in his Bill to that effect, and it would
be then time to discuss the matter fully. As to
the parties 'thernselves in this case, which the
Hon. Gentleman had brought under -the consi-
deration of.the Uouse,he.did not think they:ought
to complain of the treatment of the House,-as the
House had been extremely lenient towards them,
and would have been justified in prosecuting all
that were concerned in that suit against the Wa-
rden of the Fleet.

Mr. S. WoaTLEY, in reply, said, that accord-
ing-to the view he-took of the Act.quoted by.the
Hon. Gentleman, it was defective as regarded a.
case of this kind. The case of the parties in-
terested in this matter was aggravated .by. -
circumstance that Mr. Burton was a man of ex-
cellent property, and well able to pay the debts
for which he had been taken in execution. His
imprisonment was merely a nominal one, as bo
had met him .at the Doncaster Races in -the
midst of it. The law did not meet this question,
and he ,thought it would be an act of injustice ot
the part of the House if they did not endeavour
to make amends fur the injury their interference
with the law had inflicted.

Mr. BARING thought that sufficient reason had
been urged why compensation ought not to L*B
granted in this case. With respect to the state
of the law on this subject, he thought the statement
of the lion. Member (Mr. S. Wortley) exhibited
a state of things which ought not to be permitted
to exist. It was not long since that an indivi-
dual confined in the King's Bench Prison made
his way -through that House out of the kingdom
altogether; and many frauds of a similar descrip-
tion had been practised under the shield of the
privilege of Parliament. He thought they ought
to revise their Rules as to the qualification pro-
perly required for a scat in that House, and en-
deavour to counteract them, sp as to meet cases
of this kind.
The question was then put and negatived
without a division:

EXCHEQUER BILLS.

Mr. MAlN:tux-lc rose to bring forward the dis—
cussion of which he had. given notice, relative to
the partiality shewn by the Government, and the.
loss consequently sustained by the Public,
making Loans 'from particular quarters, instead
of going to - the public money market. Ile
had before- alluded to this subject, and part!'"
cularly adverted to the rate of interest given to tbe.,
Bank of. Ireland in the loans which k.au
been made from that body, and directed the at'
tention of the House to an extensive issue of Irish
'Treasury thins, which had taken place in 15.16,
in cousequcnce of a great sum of money borro's°
ed of. the Bank of Ireland at five. per ceut. jute"
rest. That sum had not yet, he believed, bee°
all repaid, so- that we were now paying four Vet*,
cent. (the amount having been reduced to that)
for money, which we might pay off by other)
money borrowed in this country, at three-Vea
cent. In order to show the amount which 11%,
been lost to the public in consequence of. the„,
improvident loans from the Bank of Ireland,
world show by the returns on the table t";
umnmt.of the unfunded debts ist- Irish Treasari
Bills, from the year 1.g15, up to the present t.ll°'
That would be found to be—
In 1815 - £2,500,000 In 1319 - -
I
In 1010 - - 2,4(J7,808 In Pi2o - 7,400;000
In 1317 - - 5,104,992 I 1n.1821 - -

In 1818 - - 5,6tA,930
The state of the proportions held by the 134111':.
of England and Ireland during that period, mar
one million for the former, and two nilitions foS
the latter, and during the whole of that relic%
the rate- of 5 per Gent. fer the first year, and ';
per cent. for every year following was P"id tc:
the Bank of Ireland. He would contrast tha*
with the rate of interest paid .to the merchans.

nd bankers of London, on the same security at
the same period.
.The House would be aware
that the rate varied considerably, and that there
were no official Returns by which any accurate
view of the question could be given ; but he be-
lieved the statement he had made was perfectly
correct. By that statement it appeared that the
rate of interest on Exchequer Bills was in the
early part of 1815 at 91d.per diem. making an
annual sum of 51. 6s. 5-fd. At the latter part of
.the same year it was per diem. making annu-
ally 41. 18s. 104 d. In the beginning of .1816 it
was 3,-}d., and
.at the latter end it was 3d., mak-
ing the annual rate of interest 41. lls. 3d. In
1817, at the beginning, it was 22d., making an-
nually 31. 165., and at the latter end it was 2d,
per diem, making per annum 31. Os. 10d. On all
of these Bills Government had a premium of 55.,
consequently an abatement to that amount was
to be made for the interest. Comparing these
rates of interest with those paid to the Bank
of Ireland, it would be seen that had the money
been borrowed from out of the money market in
this country, there would have been a saving to
the public
In 1816 - - - £12,489 In 1819
In 1817 - - - 92,000 In 1820
In 1818 - - 19.5,000
making a total of 400,0001. and upwards. After
these statements, it would not he necessary for
him- to' make any observation. He merely con-
tended that there ought to be a fair competition,
and no preference given to any body whatever in
borrowing money for the public service. The
motion he had to make was, " That it is the
opinion of this House, that it is expedient that
tile-same rate of interest should be given on Irish
Treasury Bills, as on Exchequer Bills."
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHQEUeIt spoke in
80 low a tone of voice, that we -lost the greater
Part of his observations. We understood him to
Contend generally that it would not be expe-
dient at the present moment-10 pay off the re-
mainder of the debt to the Bank of Ireland, by
means of a loan from the English money market
itt•three per cent., as the transfer from this cowl;
• try to Ireland would occasion'a loss of two per
cent. on account of the exchange, and as it was
Only proposed by the operation to save one per
Cent. there would remain a loss on the whole of one
Per cent. He hoped therefore it would be seen
that there was no want of economy in continuing
to pay, four per cent. for that money. With re-
spect to the bargain made in 1816, that was a
Period of great pressure and distress. He need
not recall all the circumstances which led to that
state of things, but'the sudden -removal of all the
war taxes had forced Government to make some
heavy losses. The House knew that in 1819,
the debt of Government to the Bank of England
was 28,000,0001. It was urged that the imme-
diate repayment of the debt to the Bank of Ire-
land would cause a beneficial circulation to the
Irish market ; but it should be borne in mind,
that the Exchequer Bills did not float about in
-tlee Irish market as they did in England. It was
-true that the interest of money was very low just
now in this country ; but the demand of a loan
Alight make an alteration in that respect, and he
tlid not think the Bank of England- was disposed
just now to make any further advances.

- - - £109,000
- -
~94,000

Mr. MABERLEY 'did not think the Right Hon.
Gentleman 'had ,given any answer to his com-
plaint, which was, that a preference was given
to the Bank of Ireland, and sometimes to the
liank of England, over the Merchants and Bankers
of this country-, who were entitled to considera-
lion from the readiness they had ever evinced in
meeting •the demands of Government when they
il"anted money. He could not think there would
oe a loss of two per cent. on the exchange, in the
event of -transferring money from 'this country to
4reland. He thought himself bound to-take the
le-use of the House on this question.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEIt explained.
Sir J. NEWPORT said that there was no period
when it was more necessary to extend the circa-
htting medium of Ireland than the present. He
44(.1 before asserted, atmd he now repeated, that
the 'experiment had never been fairly tried of
Passing Exchequer Bills in Ireland. The Bank
of Ireland always monopolized them, and those
1;10 were desirous of possessing them found great
difficulty in attaining their object.
The House then divided, when the numbers
iv't re—_

- 31
- 64
- -33

• For the Motion
Against it -
Majority - _
lONIA N ISLANDS.
Ortettt re-admission to the Gallery, we found
HUME on his Ic's, moving for the production of a copy
'a Memorial presented to his al ajeaty's Government, aigned
arl certain Inhabitants of the island of Zante, and presented by
a,Por Rossi. Also for' the copy of a Memorial from certain
'Th
4anabitants of Zante, presented by Signor Spiridone, Agent of
tae lonian Police, With a statement explanatory of the causes
of the detention of certain inhabitants of that island in' 819.
GOULBURN-Said, he should state his objection to the
Production of the Papers in question in few words. The .Me-
ITiorial which the Hon., Member mentioned was a papdr pur-
P°tting to be a petition, and was seized at Zante as a paper of
4 seditious tendency, which was not to be suffered to pass be-.
eiaallse it bore the tide of a petition- to the King. The indiVidual
Cta4ll4 aiding and abetting in' this affair was a Member of the
ialerbrnent, and was of course dismissed from his office on
Go found to be connected with measnros sobversive of the
vernMent of the State. As a proof of the improper con-
( La.
`.t of this indiiidual, -he was suspended from his functions
I,Y the native Legislative Assembly of tha Island of which
'e was a Member. With respect to the other paper the Ho-
nourable Member alluded to, he was convinced there were no
54ch memorials in the department to which he had the honour
to belana..
•
Aaatr. HUME made a few observations in reply.
t r. MARRYATT thought, for the honour of those en-
!'llsted with the government of the lonian Isles, as well as for
the honour of the Government at home, the Papers ought to be
IttProducedt-Ig-
ent on the merits of the case.
The modems were then severally put. The first was imme-
diately negatived. The Gallery was cleared for a division on
ne second but we understand it was finally lost without a
sion.
When strangers were re-admitted, Mr. Hu am was submitting
a motion to the Ilouse for an address tithe King, for a: Copy of
a. Memorial on the subject of Grievances complained of in the
lonian Islands, and for an Account of the number of persons
Put to death by Martial Law, on the occasion of the Insurrec-
`ion at Santa Maura, 1819.
*r
Sir J. NEWPORT thought there was a great deal in the ' 4otrian Isles that ought to come before the House. If this
Foutury was to be considered the protector of the lonian Isles,
It ought to be so in reality.
Mr. GOULBURN said, if the Hon. Baronet thought proper
%to bring forward a motion on tile subject, he should be perfectly
ach to meet it, and to prove that the engagements of this
a,,uritry with respect to the lonian Isles had been faithfully ful-
tuliioti.o,, He moved to leave out all the words of the-original 100-
,ro.at.er the word " that," fot the puraose of inserting words,
k_aling far " Extracts frona any Dispatches received from
aitif:lio:fGeparal Frrick Adaont relative to the Insurrection in
air e Sarita auran 11119."
.aar. Buy
IE observed, what he wanted was an account of

the state of the jail. What the ion. Gentleman proposed to
give him was the statement of the jailer.
Mr. GOULBURN did not know that the lonian Islands
&Ore any resemblance to a jail, or that Major-General Adam
had any thing in common with a jailer.
The motion was then negatived and the amendment agreed to.
GRAMPOUgD DISTRANCIIISEMENT BILL.

Lord MILToN rose to move the Order of the
Day for taking into further consideration the
Lords' Amendments to the Grampound Disfran-
chisement Bill. He would say a few -words to
guard against the idea that he approved of the
Amendments. He should have been much better
pleased if the Bill was left in the state in-which
it was when sent up to the Lords. As, however,
it was a measure which passed that House for the
disfranchisement of a corrupt Borough, he should
be sorry if any proceedings they might adopt
with respect to the Amendments, should risk the
loss of the Bill. It was necessary to convince the
nation, by accepting the Bill even as now amend-
ed, that they were not playing with the subject.
If it should be thought that the due balance of
interests in that House might be injured by the
of two Members to the landed interest,
some measure might hereafter be devised to re-
medy the inconvenience. He should now con-
tent himself with moving that the Amendments
be taken into further consideration.

Lord J. RUSSELL seconded the motion.
Mr. W. WY NN said, he regretted the altera-
tions made in the Bill, not that it affected the
principle, but as the Lords had agreed to the
disfranchisement of Grampound, he thought it
would have been better if they had sent down a
separate Bill mentioning the place to which they
wished the franchise to be transferred. To at-
tempt, however, any amendment now would only
risk the loss of the measure. He thought the
situation of the county of York, unless divided
into two counties, would be rendered much
worse by having to elect four Representatives in
place of two. It would afford opportunities of
keeping open the when there was no hope

or chance of success. It was likely too that the
West Riding would return all the four Members,
inasmuch as 14,000 polled there at the last elec-
tion, and only 8000 in the North and East Rid-
ing. He wished therefore that the Bill might be
sent back to the Lords with an amendment, the
object of which would be to provide that the
West Riding, including the city of York, should
send two Representatives to Parliament, arid the
East and North Riding two more. They might
state at the same time that they did not insist on

the amendment, and by that means incur no risk
of losing the Bill. It was a course adopted more
thin once.
Mr. S. WoRTLE-1- thought the reasoning of the
lion. and Learned Gentleman who spoke last
_ _

quite conclusive. He considered himself now as
representing the County of York, and though he
might feel a personal interest in the measure, in'
asmuch as it was likely to superinduce contests,
would oppose it, as a Member of Parliament,
for whatever county it had 'been proposed. The
Lords put that House in a cruel situation. The
House of Commons •solemnly decided that the•

Elective. Frinchise should be transferred from
Grampound to Leeds, and that two.burgesses
should be added to the representation of the
country. The Lords, on the contrary, said, that
£hey must have two knights of the shire and not
two burgesses. They should have hesitated before
they made so important an alteration. The
_ _

Peers could have made no change in the Bill
more likely to assist their own influence, which
was paramount in many counties, and left no
chance of success to any private Gentleman that
might oppose them. In the county of York this

influence was not so much felt, but still it was
not free from it. Sooner than agree to the amend-
ments, he thought it would be better to have a se-
parate Bill for the. disfranchisement of Gram.
pound, leaving it to be considered next Session
to what place the franchise should be transferred.
The Lords had agreed to the principle, and no
great evil could result from some further delay
as to the place. If he found any person disposed
to support him, he would take the sense of the
House upon the subject. The measure, as now
amended, held out the most effectual mode of in-
creasing the trouble and labour of the Mem-
bers for the County of York, and also adding
to the expellee of private Bills. Let, a person's
case be ever so bad, it was most likely that he
would find one of the 4 Members to agree to his
,views, and this would necessarily impede the pri-
vate business of the county. in that House. If he was
never again to sit there as one of its Representa-
tives he would say, on his conscience that he
thought the Bill would -be one of the greatest
evils that could befal Yorkshire. As to a divi-
sion into two counties there was -a decided ob-

jection to it among all classes. It was wrong to
suppose that the 14,000 who polled at the last
election from the West Riding all voted one way.
The division existed mare between the landed
and manufacturing interests than between the
different Ridings. It was not true that the West
Riding always sent the two Representatives to
that House, though he and his Noble Colleague
(Lord Milton) happened to live in a corner of it
not six miles asunder. If they_looked to history
they would find that the East-and-North Ridings
sent a fair proportion. As this Bill, with the
Lords' Amendments, would satisfy no party, he
thought it would be better to get rid of them by
some means.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, the ques-
tion was certainly attended with some difficulty.
What the House had now to consider was, under
all the circumstances, which was the most politic
mode of proceeding. Though he generally agreed
with his Hon. Friend who spoke last, he did not
see this subject in the same light. If the pro-
position for transferring the elective fran-
chise to Yorkshire came in a separate Bill, they
would, it was true, have a better opportunity of
discussing, but he thought,the Lords did not go
beyond their proper jurisdiction in altering the
measure as they had. From the first he endea-
voured to reconcile the House to the remedy best
known to the Constitution, that was to transfer
the franchise to the neighbouring hundreds. Ile
saw no necessity of a departure from the ancient
principle ; but, if they meant to travel out of the
old precedents. he contended, when the question
was- before the House on a former occasion, that
it would be better to transfer the franchise to a

county than to a town to transfer it to a
place before.:repeesented tlii to _create ,a new
franchise. Though the Lords made this altera-
tion in the Bill, they gave at the same time a
pledge honourable to themselves by shewing
their disposition to amend the representation
where corruption was detected and proved. Ile
was not therefore_ disposed to quarrel with the

change. He'should think it most unwise to dis-
franchise Grampound at present, and postpone
any further proceedings to another Session, be-
cause the Lords, though they pledged them-
selves to the principle with this Amendment,
did not pledge themselves to any further
proposition that might be made the next
time that Parliament met. The best course
would be to pass the Bill as amended. This
would not _make it an irrevocable measure. It
would be competent hereafter to the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman (Mr. W. Wynn) to propose
the division of Yorkshire into two counties. He
would not pledge himself to oppose such a pro-
position, though he apprehended it would be
found attended with considerable difficulty in
the execution. Parliament was committed on
this Bill, and they would do themselves more cre-
dit by adopting it with the present amendments,
than if they were to pass it in the most perfect '
form in another Session.

Lord J. RUSSELL said, the question before. the
House was, whether or not the Bill under consi-
deration, as amended, was so ill adapted to its
object, that it would be well to reject it. The
object was first to reform the Borough of Gram-
pound, and then to transfer the right of return-
ing two Representatives to another place. It had
been decided that the Borough was corrupt, and
that the elective franchise should be transferred
to some other place, and to this the Lords had
agreed. The House of Commons had proposed
to give the franchise to the Borough of Leeds,
the Lords decided that it should be transferred
to the large County of York, to which they pros-
posed to" give two additional Members. Now,
though he wished that Leeds should return two
Members to Parliament, h.e was, still of opinion
that more Members ought to be given to the
County of York. What had been said ()Nile
injurious consequences- of four Members being
sent from the County he did not understand ; as
to him it -appeared quite clear, that in a variety
of instances the business might be performed
better by four than by two. He was therefore
content that the Bill, as amended, should pass ;
but in a future Session he proposed to call the
attention of the House to the claims of large
towns to send Members to that House.

Mr. SMYTII, under all the circumstances of the
case, thought it would' be' best to agree to the
Amendments. A Bill could subsequently be in-
troduced to divide the county if that should be
thought desirable.
Mr.WILBERFORCE thought it would be difficult
to divide the county in the way proposed. He
would suggest that it might be better to let the
County of York return two Members to Parlia-
ment as it did at present, and then one
.Member
'might be returned from the West and another
from the North Riding, in place of those formerly
sent from Grampotind. This arrangeMent might
be connected with the amendments thade to the
Bill. He would oppose any thing that went to
endanger the Bill altogether.
Lord MILTON Put it to those Gentlemen who
were
.not comiected with the county' of York, to
Say whether it would be a wise or a kind thing
to say, " the county, shall be divided," and to
tell those. whose interests had been blended
through many generations, that they should now
be separated. -Be did not see that giving four
members to the county would be likely to in-
crease the expence of Elections. lie could not
say what effect the measure would have in that
respect. . Upon the whole, he thought the wisest
thing the House could do • N vould be to agree to
the Amendments of the Lords, though the Amend--
men ts were not, in his opinion, the best that might
haVe been made.
Mr. R. MARTIN offered a few remarks on the measure,
which, from the noise that prevailed, were but. imperfectly heard
in the gallery.
The question was then put and carried, and the Muse forth-
with proceeded to take.the Amendments into consideration.
After a-few words from Mr. C. W. WYNNE, • the Amend-
ments were a,,reed to.
Lord MILTON then gave notice of his intention to move to-
morrow for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the Poll as con-
nected with the Grampound Disfranchisement Bill. -.
The Order of the Day was then read for receiving the Report
of the Committee of Supply.