The Sun.
London, England, 1821-02-07 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. MALTBY, from the Trinity House, piesertcd Accounts
of the appropriation of the surplus of the sTrinity house Funds.
Ordered to be printed..
AGRICULTURAL. PRODUCE.
. Mr. NT-ESTE/IN' moved an Address-to` his Majesty, pray-
ing him 'to communicate Copies of Returns of the Prices of
Agricultural Produce received from - our Ambassador* in Fo-
reign parts, and praying, if no such rcluri:s had recently been
received, that his Majesty would be pleased to order returns to
be made.---Ordered.

- LONDON BRIDGE.
Sir F. BLAKE presented.a Petitionfrom Mr. Dodd, calling
the attention of the HouSe to the present state of Lora!On
Bridge; which was such, that if suffered to continua, it would
be injurious to tile 'commerce of the River: The Hon. Mem-
ber said, in bringing this forward he was not animated by a
desire to attend to-any-local or-private interest, but by a sincere
wish to favour that which would tend to promote the general
prosperity of the country. The Petitioner prayed to be al-
lowed to prove before a Select Committee the truth of the facts
stated in • his Petition, and- suggested that the four City Mem-
bers and the Members, of the other Maritime Towns in Eng-
land should be on the Conimittee.--The Petition-was ordered
to lie-on the table,
CAMBRIDGE .PETITION.

Lord F. OSBORNE presented a Petition from the Bankers;
Merchants, and.respectable Tradesmen of the Town of .Cain-
bridge, praying the restoration of her Majesty's name in the
Liturgy.
Colonel FRENCH said, if this Petition was,presented as the
Petition of the undersigned, he would not say a word ; but as
it Was presented as the Petition of the Merchants, Bankers,
and Traders of the Town of Cambridge, he must protest against
its description, and say, that a very great majority of the Mer-
chants, Bankers, Traders, and respectable Inhabitants of Cam-
bridge, were of ' a contrary opinion to the Petitioners. This
Petition was agreed to at a Meeting, at which only two Ba4.ik-
ers out of ten were present, and there were also about 10 or 12
Merchants and Tradesmen present, and several , Gownsmen,
who, lie believed,: were very unwercome visitors. The rest of
the Meeting consisted of nurses and their children. The town
of Cambridge contained upwards of 12,000 inhabitants; and he
was
.convinced the great majority of the population had the
greatest confidence in the present Administration, who had so
long conducted the ham' of State, and directed the energies of
the Country.

Lora MILTON could not suffer what had been said by his
Hon. Friend, to pass unnoticed. It Was triie his lion. Friend
was representative for the liOrough of Cambridge, but he did
not represent the inhabitants ; lie Was 'elected by about WO
burgesses only. It was a wel known fact that the Mayor of
Cambridge had refused to call a Public Meeting. Now, al-
though he was surprised, that Mayors in general should refuse
to call Meetings, he was not surprised that the Mayor of Cant-
bridge should have done so; for he held-a place in the,lteve-
nue, from which he derived considerable -emolument. His
Friend had represented the inhabitants of Cambridge a
loyal. Lie,. (Lord ,M.) had no doubt they were so ; and he be-
lieved that those who had signed the present petition, were as
respectable and as loyal as any persons who could be found in
that town.

An Hon. MEMBER. said, almost every respectable person in
the town was known to him, but he did not know more than
twenty of the names attached to the petition.
Lord F. OSBORNE offered a few words in reply ; after
which the petition was read, and ordered to be printed. •
Lord FOLKESTONE presented a petition from certain in-
habitants of the parish of St. Keats, in Berkshire, to the same
effect as the foregoing.—Ordered to be printed.

NAVY • ESTIMATES.
Mr. CREEVEY gave notice, that on Thursday next he
would move an Address to the King, praying his Majesty to
order the Navy Estimates on which 900,0001. had been voted
on Friday last for the service of the year, to be laid before the
House..

Mr. GRENFELL moved that accounts of the amount of
Bank Notes and Bank Post Bills, in circulation from the sth
Jul v. 1820, up to the latest period to which the same could be
made out, should be laid before the House, distinguishing the
Bank Notes and Bank Post Bills issued under the value of 51.
and the aggregate amount of the whole.—Ordered. •

PETITIONS.
Mr. BENNETT presented- a petition from .the inhabitants
of the Town of Ellesmere, in the County of Salop, praying for
the restoration of her Majesty's name to the Liturgy, and for
inquiry into the conduct of Ministers,—Ordered to be printed.
He also presented a petition from the Workmen at Coalport
China Manufactory, in Shropshire, to the same effeet.—Or-
dered to be printed.
Mr. LAMBTON presented a similar petition from Chester-
le-Street, in the County of Durham.—Ordered to lie on the
table.

Lord F. OSBORNE presented a petition from certain Pro-
prietors and Occupiers of Land in the eastern division of the
Isle of Ely, calling for an inquiry into the existing agricultural
distress.—Ordered to be printed.

LONDON WATER COMPANIES.

Mr. FR; EMANTLE rose to make his promised motion.
He would beg the attention of the House for a very short
time. He need not state to the House that he had no personal
view on the subject e he had no personal grievance to com-
plain of. His object at present was to form " a Select Committee
to consider the present state of the supply of water ti) the Metro.
and to report their observations on the same." He should
endeavour to'compress, as much as he possibly could, whatever
observations he found it necessary to make. He might have made
some errors in putting on paper his conceptions on this subject ;
but if he had, he should be hapny to be set right. The lion.
Member then gave a history of are origin and rise of the seve-
ral Water Companies, viz.---the New Company, the West-
end Company, the Grand Junction Company, &e. -At the
first establishment of which the supply of water to each house
did not cost more than 275. a-year, whereas now the ex-
pence of supply amounted to no less than four or five pounds a
house for the same period. This enormous expence noose from
the combination of the different companies by which they C.h.
tided the metropolis, and each took his portion of it under a
penalty not to interfere with any of the other disteicts. From
the'very moment that they entered into a combination and
apportioned the metropolis, from that moment the rates of
supply were raised, and that under pretence that they were
compelled by that House, at a very great expence, to lay down
iron lopes. They like Wise stated their capital to have been nearly
expemied before they had any return. The Honourable Member
dwelt for some time on the various arts practised by the Com-
panies with a view to establish a monopoly, and thereby se-
cure to themselves enormous profits at a rate very oppressive on
the public. He thought a Committee of the House could devise
means of securing to the Companies proper rates, yet reason-
able to the inhabitants of the Metropolis. He eculd assure the
House that he had no disposiikon to quarrel with those Gentle-
men, but felt desirous to retinae their arbitrary exactions. He
concluded by moving " that a Select Committee be appointed
to examine into the present partial state of the Supply of Water
- to the Metropolis, and to report their observations on the same."
Mr. H. SUMNER said, he was bound to bear testimony to
tile statements ofhis :Honourable Friend.
Mr. M.:l. TAYLOR requested .the House would do him I
the honour of giving hiena few minutes attention, while he should
make a few, observations. With great dderenee to his Hon.
Friend, he could not agree to al the statements which he had
made, but another opportunity would occur for putting the
House 'and the Public in possession of all the facts. Ile re-
commended that the plan which he proposed two years ace
should be resorted to. He thought 'it would be ridiculous to
suppose that water could be supplied to the. metropolis now ath
the rate it was in 1810. If the House would only agree to a

PATLNT 111611 T..
Mr. CfYRWEN, after briefly sitting forth the propriety- of
affording all reamonable enwuragenterit and.protection
who benefited their country by their discCvertee.i,.nd
moved for leave tom. bring in a Bill to atitheriz: the Attorney-
General in certain cases to extend the period daring which,Pa-
tent rights Should he protected.
Mr. D. GIDDY trusted the' House Would/ n6t pass tht•liill
as a matter of coutse, as he held it to be ore of considerable int •
portance to the Arts and Sciences.

After a fe* liords.from T Y, leas.-. 3 v.-as gives
to bring in the Bill.

FOREIGN TRADE.

Mr. WALLIS rose to niove fc,r the appOintinent
of a Conunittee to inquire into the state of foreign
trade, together with the la;•rs by which it was

•
regulated; and report thereon to the House:

~ . ---
_
vi,ould not detain the Howe long on a subject
which had been so ably expounded in the speech
of an lion. Member opposite (Mr. Baring). Con-
fining his remarks to the immediate state of c,jm-

rnerce, it gave him great pleasure to-observe that
trade Was in some instances recovering froth its
Severe depression. The manufactures, especially
those 'of cotton and woollen, were iMprovitig ;
agriculture laboured under increasing depresi6n,
13ut he could not but hope 'that as the interests
of the country'reciprocally—aff&ted- each othe.r,
the gradual improvement of cot-Milo-cc and manna
factures. would lead to a similar effect on agricul-
ture. If there were 'no- difficulties existing itt
either, he would kill be anxious for the aPpoint-
ment of a Committee. The relations 'of commerce

lad - undergone alteration; the maintenance of

trade during the war
,depended on the. doi-fif-
nation of our fleets, and the monopoly •of the
markets of the world. Now we had to trust
to our comparative superiority
.in the arts' of
commerce alone for the acquireinent'.of aay
superior advantages. We 'already enjoyed
great advantages in our industry, soil, and ma-
chinery, over our neighbours ; but these wele
accompanied by certain burdens which oppresSed
the industry of the country beyond any thing
that was suffered by neighbouring States. Ile
admitted the necessity of revision and improve-
ment in our commercial regulations; yet the free
principles of trade, which had obtained a triamp!l
over the exclusive systems were of very dillictit
introduction, and required time to enable us
to act on them with safety. There were inte-
rests to protect—capital which had been diverted
into peculiar chaitheis—labour which was in-
vested in peculiar operations and was difficult to
transfer ; in short, a variety of eircumstanCes
which had grown up with the prohibitory sys-
tems must be done away, or reduced' in effect,
before a change to any great extent could tla
rendered safe. He concluded by ino‘ing for tha
appointment of the Committee.
Mr. CURVEN expressed his conviction that
agriculture must be relieved from' its difteulties
before trade or manufactures would revive.
Mr. BARING would not o,at length into those
principles and details which he had discussed on
another occasion at great length. lie could not
help remarking on the circumstance of the lapse of
six years after a general peace to wi:nesseach of the.
great interests in a state of extreme distress. Togo
into all the reasons of this extraordinary spectacle-,
the discussion would take a year. lie would con-
tent himself at present with declaring his opinion
upon the probable effect of the motion. Ile ap-
proved of the appointment of the Committee,
because he flattered himself that some good miglt
be brought through their labours. But •he had
no hope of seeing .the country restored to that
state of commercial prosperity enjoyed by it
some -years ago. If the political measures of the
country were not improved, the commerce could
not be benefited, and the trade and .'manufac-

tures of Great Britiiin would fall into decay :as
had been the case with the manufacturing dis-
tricts of France, the Netherlands, sera of the
Italian cities (especially Venice), where the po-
pulation lived on the remainder of their former
flourishing trade, but the essential branches of it
were entirely cut off. He admitted the claim for
con,ideration put in on behalf Of agriculture ; but
he queStioned its superiority- in interest, or its
priority as to the order in which relief ought-to
be granted. The fact was, that it had been at
length discovered that the interests must all stand
or fall together.
Sir J. NE-weohT added a few words.

The Cornmittee was then ariointed:. it con-
tained.the Immvs of most of the leading Members
on.either side of the flouSe.

' ~t.~» b; i"'R.,'Dfi,

Mr. W. Slum' then rose to call the attention
of the House to the present State of - the .tilat
Trade. It was now near 14 years that this coun-
try had been actively ernrdoyed in endeavour,
jag to suppress this hetrild traffic; and it was
now five 'years and upWards since the ,flobJe
Lord, by his exertions, Lad obtained .th., aid of
the Emperor of Rossia, and other Foreign P; inces
to join in an expedition of desire' that an end
should be put to this aborninabte trade. A Noble
and IlluStrious Duke (Wellington) had also. ex-
erted himself with great success and ability ou th:s
subject. Was it not, therefore su;priling that a!l
these efforts should hate fai!ed of success, and that
the. Slave Trade should still exist. The fact was,
that he feared many scf these Potentate's lust
given us promises, but that was all. DeC,!nal
and America had, he believed, been sincere
their endeavours k but, from documents in' h s
possession, he was convinced the European
Oovernments of France, Spain, and Poctui,al;

order to ascertain how far the testimony laid be-
fore them was entitled to credit. If they had
been so applied to, they would have given it en-
tire contradiction. The lion. Member then pro-
dnced and read several 'extracts of letters from
the Bishop of Pesaro, 'Cardinal Alveri, and
others, who wrote in approving terms of that part
of her Majesty's conduct, of which they had
been eye-witnesses-. 'He also read an extract
from an Austrian paper, denying that she• had
been black-balled -at -the.CasSIOO: 7 Bergarni was
a person entitled, both by birth and manners, to
any honours which he might be fortunate-enough
to have conferred upon him. In foreign coun-
tries it was not the practice to ask, as in England,
who a man had been, but
,what he then was.—
He remembered when at Berlin, seeing the pre-
sent King of Sweden recognike an individual who
had been a.servant at the same time be was, be.-
fore his exaltation, in a manlier which reflected
honour upon his Royal station. And against
whom, he .would ask,- had the proseCutiou been
commenced ? It was against the Queen Consort
of the present Sovereign. Was there any person
who had drank deeper of the cup of affliction
than her Majesty ? Even the witnesses against
her had admitted her benevolence and good qua-
lities ; her humanity had been most conspicuous ;
she had braved dangers, at the prospect of which
humap nature had sickened. When her meanest
attendant was confined by the plague, she had
endeavoured to-preserve his life at the risk of her
own. He knew she had been accused of lending
the sanction of her name to publications in which
might be found many offensive passages ; but
Gentlemen should recollect her peculiar situation.
Assailed as she had been at all points, it had been
in her power to wield the weapon of recrimination,
and thus plunge the country into discussion. But
the Hon. Member for Oxford had said, "- Will
you leave Adultery and Treason triumphant ?"
'low vain was such an interrogaliVe. argument.
Had not his Majesty's Ministers offered. her an
income which would have secured her the means
of continuing the practices with which they had
charged her? He was one of those who joined in
the prayer of peace which was so widely utter-
ed out of doors. He was this night called upon
to support. a vote of censure upon his Majesty's
Ministers ; but he declared to God he should
have felt greater pleasure in being enabled con-
scientiously to give them his support. Even now
he believed retraction would do them honour;
but it appeared they were determined to keep
this important question alive. If so, it was per-
fectly idle to talk of sedition and anarchy. In
Support of both the disaffected out of doors were
perfect insects compared with his Majesty's Mi-
nisters; for their conduct had threatened the
country with revolution. The lion. Gentleman
(the Member for Corfe Castle) had stated his
surprise that a wise and enlightened people iike
those of this country should 'adopt the course
which they had. lie (Sir R.) admitted that the
people of England were wise and enlightened ;
but it was not to the Hon. Gentleman that they
owed either their wisdom or their light. They
were wise, because they knew that no-act of in-
justice, no wrong whatever could be done even
to the meanest subject without injury to. the
whole community. The Hon. Member for Ox-
ford had said that the people were fantastic ; but
he (Sir R.) sincerely believed that 99 out of every
100 were true to their principles, until they were
abandoned by their leaders. Before he sat down,
he should offer a very few remarks upon minor
topics. The gallant General then proceeded to
make a few general observations upon.the Cause
of Reform, and sat down, declaring that, strongly
as he advocated that cause, he should be willing
to retire from public life the, moment he should
be satisfied that his doing so would promote the
general happiness.
Mr. HusisissoN stated, that he felt himself
compelled, after what he feared was a tong Par-
liamentary life, to offer himself to the notice of
the House. Upon ordinary occasions he -felt dis-
posed rather to defer to the opinions of others, than
to offer his own ; but, on the present important oc!
casion, he was induced to claim their indulgence,
however incompetent lie felt himself to support
that claim. - Before he would touch upon the
direct question before the house, he would very
shortly address himself to a remark which had
fallen from the Honourable and Learned Mem-
ber for Kuiresborough, (Sir J. Mackintosh.)—
That Hon. and Learned Gentleman had put an
erroneous construction upon an obseriation froth
his Honourable Friend (Mr. Bankes) ; and in
that erroneous construction he had been follow-
ed
.by the gallant General, who shad just sat
down. lie (Mr. H.) had never understood his
lion. Friend. to condemn the measures of his
Majesty's Ministers. He had said merely that
he was not satisfied with those measures.—
(Cheers from the Opposition Benches.)—lle un-
derstood those cheers; but what followed that
observation of his-
_Honourable Friend ? Why,
" that if the circumstances which had given rise
to those measures were to occur again, he did not
know but that his Majesty's Ministers ought to
take the same measures again."—(Cheers from
the Ministerial Benches.)—And it was from this
observation of his lion. Friend thk those
.lion.
Members desired his Honourable Friend, in
consistency, to vote for the present motion.—
This indeed would be an exemplification of that
sort of consistency which was so Common on the
Other side of the. House. Addressing himself to
the question immediately before the house, Mr.
fluskisson observed he was compelled, previously

had carried on this diabolical traffic on the Gold
and Guinea Coast (the coast North of the Line) to
an extent, and with an inhumanity, not surpassed
at any former time. He was not inclined to listen
indiscriminately to the charges against the French
Government on the subject of the Slave Trade, as
he was sensible that the French Ambassador in
this country was friendly to the abolition, and be-
lieved that many individuals high in office at the
Court of France were ignorant of the misconduct
of subordinate agents. The Hon. Gent. concluded
by moving for copies of all the correspondence
between this country and France, Spain, Portugal,
and Holland, relative to the manner in Which
the Treaties for the Abolition of the
.Slave Trade
had been carried into effect; also for
.copies of
all letters addressed to the Board of Admiralty
from the Captains of Ships appointed to cruize
off the coast of Africa to prevent, the illicit traffic
In Slaves, and for various other documents con-
nected with the subject. He also stated it as his
epinion, that the emoluments of those engaged in
the so ppression of the illicit traffic in Slaves
should be increased in order to compensate for
the risk that was unavoidably incurred. -
Mr. WILBERFORCE seconded the motion and
expressed his .'entire concurrence
yin what had
fallen from his Hon. Friend.
Lord CA-STLEREAGII said, that it was the
anxious wish of Government to carry into com-
plete effeCt the humane designs of the aboli-
tionists. No
.effort had been wanting to secure
the. assistance. of the European Powers for that
ohject. He was happy to see the Parliament
take up the subject; their vigilance was the
best remedy for the negligence of Government
in those matters, which did not fall so often or
so pressingly upon their observation, or which
were of difficult execution, on account of the
terms of intercourse with which they stood with
foreign Powers. Ile could assure the House that
he was most anxious to explain the conduct of ,
Government on this subject. There were great
difficulties, of which the House was not fully
aware, in the way of fulfilment of its views on
this question ; those difficulties would now be
put in due course for explanation—what was
wrong would be deliberately considered, and
the Government and the House would then be
a ble,to direct the common effort with much bet.
ter hope of success to the attainment of the coin.
mon good.
The papers, together with various others con-
nected with the same subject, were then ordered
Mr. W. SMITH moved for an account of Ex.
tents in Aid issued and executed in the last year
Ordered.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the Order of the Day for receiving the Report
of the Committee of Supply.
Mr. CREEVEY would not oppose the bringing
up the Report, because he had given notice of a
motion for the production of the Estimates for the
1,900,0001. which were to be voted.
Mr. liumE wished to know, if there was any
diminution in the item of wear and tear ? It was
extraordinary that the sum proposed was the same
as during the war. •

Sir B:MARTIN said, that the wages were the
same, and the repairs nearly the same as in war.
After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the
ENCHEQUER, the Report was brought up.
Mr. lirmc.wished to ask, having heard that
there. WAS to be tt co►»iderable reduction of the
-wages of the working men in the Dock-yank, if
there, was to be a corresponding reduction made
in the salaries of the officers

Sir B. MARTEN said, there would be no reduc-
tion in the prices of labour; but the men were to
be confined to a- smaller space of tune to work in.
IVIr.-IIuNtE thought this was any thing but eco.-
210Rly. •

The Report was read, and the resolutions of
the Committee adopted by the House.
coNDucT OF MINISTERS.—(Rrcumro DEBATE.)
Sir R. WlLsos rose a'nd assured the House
that he regretted exceedingly having -to occupy
its time at so early a period of the debate,
but which had become necessary owing to his
being in the possession of information which he
wished, to_ communicate. I f he recollected what
the Right Hon. President of the Board 'of Con-
trol had said, he' did not attempt to justify the
Government in every part of the proceedings
against her Majesty, but rather called upon the
forgiveness of the HOuse, for errors which could
neither be' foreseen nor prevented, as arising out
of the peculiar nature of the case. -The 'Eon.
Member for Corfe Castle had condemned the
proceedings in• the-beginning, the middle, and
yet, with his usual impartiality, he had de-.
termined to vote for the -acquittal of the ac-
cused. -It was his • object to show that his Ma-
jesty's Ministers had committed great errors ;
and whether they were errors of incapacity or
errors of ignorance, they ought to be visited_
with the same penalties as if they were' real'
offences. For, those who undertook such si-
tuations must' take with them all their respon-
sibilities. He _objected to a Bill of Pains,
and Penalties, and knew of but one- case 'in
which it ought to have received the sanction of
the Legislature. He never did accuse. Ministers
of being originally parties to any conspiracy
against her Majesty ; he never had imputed it to
them, because he believed thern totally innocent
of such a charge. There *as one thing however
connected with the establishment of the Milan
Commission, which, as men, they were.'bound to
explain. That was—the time at which it was
instituted.—(lfear, 'hear from Lord. Castle-
reagh.)—The time was, the very moment of the
Princess Charlotte's death ; a time of a notoriotF-
ly suspicious nature. Neither was he disposed
to make his Majesty's. Ministers responsible for
the subsequent acts of 'the Commission. It was
not altogether .to be required from them that
they should enter into 'any nice discrimination
with regard.to the evidence ;' for having employ-
ed individuals whom they considered to be Gen-
tlemen, they were hound to give them their con-
fidence to a certain
.extent. But when the de-
positions came under the inspection of the Privy
Council, they ought to have ascertained how far
the .respectability of the deponents could
be depended upon. He contended that the
Italian
.Nobility who. lived near her Majesty,
ought to have been applied to by !Ministers? in

to. entering- upon that question, to low% very
slightly upon those topics which, though irrele-
vant in themselves to the motion, had been brought
into discussion upon it. Those who.diSapproved
of the late war,•he conceived, were not likely to
approVe of the peace which followed it. It was
a war undertaken upon the soundest principles.
and crowned with the most glOrious success ; and
it had made a deep impression upon foreign na-
tions of, time vigour and prowess of our fleets and
armies. The progress of that war had shoWn
thatwhile this country was unshaken in its, forti-
tude, and was proudly struggling for its own in-
dependence, it was not backward in affording its
strength and treasure in establishing that of
--
others.-Cheers.) Upon that subject,however,
he should not enlarge ;" though he thought it not

altogether fair to visit the last proceeding upon
those who had concluded the peace of 1814.
(Hear, hear !)---Much eloquence had- been ex-
hausted to chew that all the late Bills had proved
nugatory. Good God ! They bad sat night
after night in anxious and exhausting debate upon
the. subject of those Bills ; and now they were
told that their proceedings were nugatory. They
had been told that those Bills 'would destroy the
right of petitioning; and that that Honse would
permit no means of being informed of the state
of public opicioif. If this were correct, why
were all the late County Meetings referred to as,
,so many triumphant expressions of that opinion
At those very Meetings, and particularly at
.a
late northern' Meeting attended by the Hon.
Member for Durharri<Mr. Lambton), it had been
declared that those. Bills were intolerable ; so
that in one place it was urged that the - Bills in
question were an intolerablegrievance, and in ano-
ther, that they were ineffective and 'nugatory. In-
deed, the House was assured that there had neyey
been a time when public Opinion was so strongly
expressed as the present. This was. another in-
stance of the consistency he had noticed before.
For his own part, he firmly believed that it.was
to those bills the country was indebted for
its security in those districts which • had been
previously disturbed. He would shortly refer to
another subject upon which the Gentleman op-
posite had so eloquently de-claimed. Gentlemen
had talked of the present acrimonious irritation
'which was so generally throughout the country,
and of their wishes to -allay that irritation. He
joined in their wish, but
.he differed with them
upon the means. They had talked of a foul:con-
spiracy, and of aGreen Bag conspiracy, and they
said that Ministers had done that which their
own better judgment condemned. These Gen-
tlemeh had not accused the Ministers directly,
but they had by inference described them as men
of a fiend-like character, whon-ino men 61 honour
could - support. They wished the Ministers to
make no defence, but if they did not defend
themselves they would indeed be unworthy of
support. The Ministers did not ion the present
occasion make any charges, they were defeiling-
themselvec against an attempted Vote of censure,
and he (Mr. littskisson) contended that they
were perfectly correct in advising the Crown;
under all the circumstances, -to exclude her Ma-
jesty's-name from the- Liturgy, seeing that its in-'
sertion was a matter of grace and favour. Re-.
ferring to .the proceedings of the Upper House,
he (Mr. Huskisson) observed, that he did not
rely upon the divisions in that House- for the pur-
pose of deciding either upon the legality of
the Bill of Pains and Penalties,- or upon the
question whether the preamble of that Bill had
or had not been established. ,But he referred to
them to sheiv that. Ministers bbd not brought
charges against her Majesty lightly or unad.-
visedly.—(Cheers.)—lle might admit that the
result of those proceedirts was her Majestrs
technical acquittal ; and that she was restored
to her rank and her rights. Of that rank
and legal rights she was in the full posses-
sion,
_and they had been formally recognized.—
All .the rest were " Trifles light as - air," as had
been-admitted by the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman, the highest in her Majesty's legal confi-
deuce.
A distinctiOn had certainly- been drawn
as to the charaet.t. •in which the lion. and
Learned Gentleman had made that observation ;
but he (Mr. II.) had yet 'to learn that the House
could consider any statement made by a Member
of that House, as the statement of Counsel in the
capacity of an Advocate. From the documents
which had appeared on the table' of that House,
it was evident that the question upon the Li-
turgy had not been considered an insurmount-
able obstacle ,to an adjustment. lie would, -in-
deed, ask the ll6n. and Learned Gentleman wile.;
ther it was consistent in- hini'to bear the, proposal
to her Majesty, which he did, if he conceived the
question of the Liturgy was a point which she
ought not to concede ? He trusted all these cir-

cumstances, which came out piecemeal, would be
fully explained by
,Mr. Brougham: This was
the more important, because, as her Majesty had
sent down a Message, stating that she would not

accept any- provision' until- the restoration of her

name in the Litui•gy, it was•prohable the next
Session would produce a•retraction of that Mes-

sage„ on the ground of its being calculated to in-
crease the present difficulties. After glancing at
the inquiry of 180 G, and the Council of 1813,
which restricted her Majesty's i►►tercourse with
the late Princess Charlotte, Mr. Iluskisson pro-
ceeded to notice the co►►duct of her Majesty on
her, late journey to the Continent, observimg, that
if she was really innocent, no conduct could have
been adopted so calculated to excite suspicion.—
The Honourable Gentleman particularly dwelt

upon the. advancement of Bergami under very
mysterious circumstances, and the secresy which
was observed respecting him. Mr. if. then al-
luded to the reports which had given rise to the
Milan Commission ; and contended, that not to
take notice of her Majesty's conduct, would be
to disregard the best interests of the State.—
Was he to be told that the personal honour of
.the Sovereign and the dignity of the Country
had no connection with each other? But it was
earnestly desired by the Ministers that there
should be no disclosure : and the course then
taken was likely to promote the honour of the
country. This wish of the Ministers was sup-
ported by communications with Mr. Brougham
himself, who was supposed to know her.Majes.
ty's views. After observing upon the necessity
under which the Ministers felt themselves to
institute the late.•proceedings on the failure of all
negotiation, Mr. Iluskisson returned to the
motion before the house. The motion, it was
admitted, was an endeavour to get Ministers out

of their situations nuclei' a: vote of censure. It

was a good piece of generalship, and might be
compared to a political battle of Waterloo. Even
if the present motion failed, it was confidently

expected that its failure would be auxiliary to
the grand object. The nousci • were told that
their tables would be 'crowded with Petitions

for a Reform in Parliament; and with this view

there could be no doubt that the Generals, the
Adjutants, and the Landwehr were called, out

masse to fight the battle of reform. The
House, of course, must meet these petitions as

well as they could. Probably they would plac'e ? If any Learned Gentleman had seen tar
have nothing to . do- but establish Univera brief that must have been suggested. Yet it wa
sal Suffrage, Anhual Parliaments, and Else- clearly proved that the man wasgrossly perjured
tion by Ballot; or if those threatened Petitions her Majesty not having been at the place mor
should take another turn, and differ from each than one night, of which there was the evident,
other, the House might send the Petitions of the Gazette,
nwhich the Lord Chancellor him
to Committees, with hastructios to' count the self !teknowledged, though' not legal testlinony
eignatures in favour
_of- (*lt ',specific re fsru2, was rie9ral testimony, and satisfied-a-his nlind.o
the object of- theyarious Petiti9ns, and -report- %be truth of what it stated, and •tliti. consdqneh
the result.- : But Willi reference -'to-7the'question falsehood of the winks. This he mentioned a!
of the Liturgy, Mr. li. contended that if that a sample of the manner in which the evidenca
point had been conceded, other points would be had been goteup.—(Hear.)—When lie saw all tio
raised, and the difference would .be no nearer evils which had been brought upon the country
arrangement than at first. A restoration of her he could net help declaring that his Majesty':
name winald be nothing less than proclaiming Ministers had done more within the last few
that the Queen was. entitled
-to honour and ells-. mcmtlis to lower the standard of morality Thar
tinction ; that if she was-not preliseWorthy, she the writings of all the feeethinkhrs from the tune
at least was blatneless. It would be prod.aim_ of Thulall to the present day. '''he Hon. Mem•
.iog that she was fit to be the pattern of female ber- then took a brief survey of the injurious
virtne, and an example for the Englisltsex. Now, effeCt of the proceedings, as they respected the
was that the fair result of the inquiry ? lie thought Monarchy, the Church, and the character Of-the
it impossible for 'any reasonable man to say so. people, and concluded with attributing the whole
Jt appeared to him that the questiOn of the Liturgy of those evils to the ruisconiutt of his Majesty's
could make no possible ditfereeke as to her legal Ministers. He Censured the language of the rights ; nor to the iMpression which every man has lion. Member for Corfe Castle (Mr: flankes)
received, one way or the other, upon the Queen's for attributing base and desperate `motives to
conduct. This must be the criterion by which men for a difference of Political opinion : he re-
that question was t 0 he judged, and he thought • probated the term-faction so applied, but he said
the circumstances fully justified the 'proceeding. he could tell the Right Hone Genth.sman of a
lie repeated that he thought
.no unprejudiced faction who had used the 'Queen as a ster;ping-
man could lay his hand upon his heart, and say stone to pewer, and then, to use a familiar phrase,
that he believed her conduct was free from I had thrown her over board. Mien her Majesty
reproach. He had always felt an anxious lost her aucient and factionfiri:liipfri)r2os(t!ehc,tt,osriirotlrilaotun,eci desire that this subject should be. brought thought fit to cull out of the evidence_ given ill
to a termination. lie had viewed it as he 1806, whiCh they had
and to
perjured, certain parts.
would view any other national calamity. The be blastedainfamous,
concession which was required would- afford a as the foundation of fresh chaiges. Not a par-
.signal triumph to the language and the doctrines tide of State necessity had been shewn to exist::
which she had so extensively promulged. He hut no State necestay could justify his Majesty's.
thought that Ministers had taken a line of con- Ministers in hayiug sent forth to the country that
duct which might have led to, an adjustment. which, had any other person ventured tO publish,
The Queen's legal rights were
,recogniseda no he knew how he would have been treated by
further proceedings against her were intended ; his Majesty's Attorney-General„ lie cared not
and with the provision now before the house, he who succeeded to the places of the Ministers,
thought those measures might have terminated. but thinkingdas he did that they lied degraded.
-lie begged to repeat that in his opinion conces- and disgraced themselves. and the cotintry, he
'slop upon the question of the Liturgy would have must as an honest man oppose them to the utmost
been productive of the worst of mischiefs. l'ie of his power. a .
had assisted by his vote every measure which had Mn NV Eee ES LEY Pout: said, he could assure
an appearance of leading to an adjustment. That 1 the House that it was riot his lOtention to detain
adjustment had not taken place ; awl the latel the House long ; but as a Member of his Ma-
inquiry, necessarily followed ; an inquiry-which jesty's -Government lie could not sit silent under
:he feared had lowered the tone of moral and ee..: the: charge, which on this and the last night had
ligious - feeling in the country; and the present been brought forward against the Administratioh.'
Motion" was calcUlated to continue the realm- e felt himself obliged •to the Noble Lord who
hrance of. that inquiry. The Hon, Gentleman had brought forward this motion, and to the
concluded by apologizing for the length at which Honourable Member who seconded it, for the
he had troubled the House ; but declared he distinct and candid avowal of their object—aupon
could not 'give his vote against the motion, with- a former occasion some doubt might be entertain-
out stating the reasons by which he was influent- ed Upon the subject, but it was now quite obyia
ed. Mr. Huskisson sat down amid very general ous, indeed it was fairly avowed, that the great
cheering-. -
Purpose for Which this motion was brought for-
Mr. BENNET said. that 'he should think ill of ward, was to effect the dismission of his Majes-
. . .
hithself if he. did not put upon record his opinion ty's Ministers. As to tire motion itself it was a
of the conduct of hiS Majesty's Ministers. lie secondary consideration, it was merely a vehicle
did not intend to follow the Right lion. Gentle- chosen to produce the desired change, and un-
man through a Speech Which seemed constructed doubtedly it was well chosen, because it would
for the debate of a former night on the question 'Carry with it a stronger force than any other that
of the Liturgy, but which,• as the Right Hon. could have heen selected. But the \ . oble- Lord,
.Gentleman probably thought too good to be lost, and the Hon. Member, were not doing any thins
he had fa‘;oUred the House with it on the present new aeon th LS occasion, they 'were only do7ns
Occasion. Ile should premise the observationsit,lirmets.eltvithiacdh.it.ihtiejav:til.aiatfilo,b, been
beendoirigfoers:neer
formed,
since
,htehre
make by ,Stdting,e
he intended to. ;flint-
Gentlemen Who had spoken on the other side, was.searcely one of the efficient acts of adminise:
with the exception of Ministers themselves, dis- tration for the last ten years, which the Hon-
'claimed some part or other .of .their conduct.-- "centlemen opposite to hint had not opposed, and
The 'Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had last ye,ar in- for which they would not have been quite as ready
formed the House that the Bill would be sup- to•pass a vote•of censure upon Ministers as they
ported by. persons'of . credit and character ; but were upon the present occasion. It was important
it was curious to observe that not one pethon of that the House should bear this in mind, because
that description was. examined at the bar of the when Gentlemen so-loudly exclaimed that thecou-
House of Lords in support of that tittle-tattle duct of ninisters for the last six months deserved
gesSip and tea-table scandal which bad first 'all the censure it was now endeavoured Le heap O!
caused 'the issuing-of the Milan Commission. He their heads, it was but fair to ask whether thosl.
believed no one could he folind who.-would come. 'Gentlemen everentertainedany Other opinion, :Ana.'
for Ward and own that gossiping intelligence.— whether they had not been, at ail times, and upon-
fle,that as it might, on that information hie Ma- all occasions, equally 'violent in their Oppositicia
jesty's Ministers had sent forward the Milan ---equally loud- in --their censures—and equally
Commission. And here be would ask, wire- anxious to effect the removal of the present-Paini-
ther the rank and ' character which sent for- sters ?—(Near, hear.)—He would ask whether
'ward the first information was riot Ompteda ? the Gentlemen. opposite to liiin bail not held this
That Commission- being appointed,: all that' 'language even upon occasions when it was quite
followed was of course ; the natural ceise- obvious that the sense of the country was decide
quence was to force her- Majesty into this coun- edly with Minister's., he did not mean of the whole
i country.. because was certainlytrue that the
Majesty's and to brine upon it all the evils which iris .
~ it
Majesty's .Alinisters pretended to deprecate.— present hlinisters.never had the good fortune to
Could" any other result be expected when her possess the confidence, or obtain the approbation,
Majesty was, in a mariner, excommunicated, of the Gentlemen on the other side of the House.
styled Princess Caroline of England, and treated •It .was not his intention to enter at large into the
in the' way she had been by those Hanoverian
defenceof the conduct of' his Majesty's Ministers,
animals—(Hear!)—at a time too when she was because the House had already heard that con-
Queen of England ? If one-fourth part of what -duct most satiSfaCtorily and triumphantly vindie
was afterwards sent through the whole country cated, and he did' not Wish to weaken the effect
was knoWn to Ministers at the tune they made of the speeches • whielt must have made' a deep
certain offers to her Majesty, they , deserved to . impression upon the House, but there were some
be impeached. It was to. have been expected points that had 'been urged which he could not
by the House that a Right Hon, Gentleman now pass over without notice. Lit the Course .of this.
.
..
absent from the country, would have possessed de he te 'some declarations bad been made and
some doctrines laid down, which were quite' neW
some information. but lie, though he concurred
in striking her Majesty's name out of the. Li-.. to him,aud WlP=lr he believed were equally wt.
turgy, vet Came down to ' that House, and de- to a great majority of that House. It had been
Glared, not surreptitiously, but openly and. in stated by the propoFers and supporters of (11i.5.
the hearing of his colleagues, and stated that his motion, that it w-ae in'tlifferent to theM wleether
attachment and affection to that illustrious per- it met with the approbation of the Houeoor not.
soilage remained the same, and that she was —it was
,immaterial to them Whether the Minie
the, Confidence of- the house of
efovrerrnesdoctit2o
tbye
she
eghroascee..atondsoeriencatm. enlt:vbasf
itivphoast:: ‘sctoelrnsinio!ons:e.:red
not—die confidence Which those
Bible that the Right Hon.-Gentleman could have Gentlemen -wished to obtain was not that
seen the evidence subsequently published ? Peree of the Commons House of Parliament, but
haps the Hon. Mearther who bad on a former of a certain crasS of people ottt of doors/
night deprecated all discussion in the absence .of, wtio ,were always. ready. to oppose Ministers.
Iris Rig-ht Hen. Friend, could infertn,the House- --=The opinion of the House of Commons
if that Right Hon. Gentleman's consent to omit Was now for the first time declared to be
her Majesty's, name in the Liturgy was a sort of of no importance---it was of no avail that
standingc om pro u ise. that House devoted
.theoirf
that n‘oVparsociteel;lohtig,sgisZulodntaakiel . tinder-
timetltie Gaentdlti-et'lltlceilrl faculties.of to th eai n vestigat ion
He did not know if this were so or not, dais great question ; their decision was worth
but he had heard .it confidently whispered. rlothing in line opinion of tire Gentlemen on the
.
The great charge against the Ministers Was• other side ; that is to say, if their decision charhap-
their utter want of caution in receiving evidence, 'pelted to be, in forour Of Ministers. 'lt was quite
the entire abSence of those ordinary pains which new to hear it stated in that House that it was of
would have been taken in any other case. Who no importance that the Ministers of the 'Crowil
could have believed that an individual should-be should possess the confidence of the Representa-
found who swore that for five successive-mornings tiees of the People—of the Constitutional
he ' either, saw her Majesty coming out of . the guardians of their rights. But-it was very extra-
chamber of her paramour,,,or be .returning frcql ordinary to observe the great vacillation of the
her's ?-WoOld it not•have been natural to inquire Whigs upon this as well as upon other subjects.
if her. Majesty had really been five•days at tire I

/