The Sun.
London, England, 1817-02-26 00:00:00

PETITIONS, &c.

Sir W. GEARY presented a petition from the inhabitants
of Faversham, praying for Reform, &e.
Mr. SHAW!: presented petitions from several parishes in.
n Jilin, praying for the repeal of the Window Tax Act, which
were brought up, read, and ordered .to Ike •on the table. He
gave !mike, that after the E,►ster recess he should move for
the appointment of a Committee to take into consideration
the petitions whicl► hit been presented to the House praying-
for a repeal of the Window Tax Act. • •
Lord STANLEY presented Petitions from Leigh, Clitherise,
and Itoylon, praying for annual Parlialuents and universal
Suffrage. • • •
Lind .SI'ANLEI' presented another Pvtilion from Leigh,
praying that no measure against the liberty of the subject
might he adopted by I':n•liaintcnt, in cons,,qu,nce of the fie_
port of the Secret Committee.' Ile stated that as he had last
night rusted with the majority of the House, lie felt some
uukwardnesi•in presenting this Petition, hut as it came from
a respectable body of his constituents, he felt it an imperious
duty to move that it lie brought up and read.
DUTY ON FOREIGN \VINE.

Mr. Sti ARPZ presented a Peticion from the
Wiue Merchants of. the United hingdi:►u, pray-
ing that the (bay on the importation of foreign
%hues might be diminished. It stated, that a si-
milar Petition had been presented last Session,
which had produced nu effect ; that the wine

teas n►►w iiiMOSt at its lowest ebb, and if
stake abatement of tbe duties %vas not made, that
its total ruin seemed inevitable. The remedy
mats to reduce the ditties on foreign wine to one-
half the r I►resent amount.
• The Petition was hteoight up and read. On

the clue-t' nn that it shwa(' lie on the table,
WARna took the opportunity of asking the
Noble Lord opposite, whether the long negocia-
tioo het weeu thi3 Country and the Court of Pot.-
;opt, respecting the Treaty of 1810, bad been
concluded ?

Lord CASTIARRAGII said he felt some diffic►►lty
In gi%ing an answer to thi, question. Certain
piestions had a►isen on son►e of, the a►ticles ot ►he

Treaty of IS O, and had been for some time dis.
cosset!, hot - nothing had [ken done to alter tha

Treaty.
Mr. PROTHr.noE spoke in favour of the Petition
now befoie the Utilise. He had heard it report that
it was the intentiou of his Mojc.nty's.OuverumPtit
to tlintiuish theft duties, and the report was so
prevalent that he hoped it was true.

•
The
LHANcALLoit of the EXCHliatlEß.—it WWI
necessary for him •to state that any such rumour
as that mentioned by the non. Gentleman uho
spoke last, was not in the least. degree coun-
tenanced by any thing on his pot or on the part
of his Mijesty's Government. For his own part
he never in any degree ceded his opinion, that
under the present circumstrinces of country, the

prayer of thi3 petition could not be complied with
Whatever reason there might be for a reticent)t
of duty on any other article of consumption, cer.
Willy it would be agreed that on the article it
question the ditty might to be kept up at its higt
a rate as po4sible. When the subject in. questioe
came to be discussed, he should be prepared ta:
skew, that if the 'prayer of the petition of last
year had been complied with, an irreparable
jury to the Revenue would have beets the cause.
titmice. _

Air. PossoNirti said, it was to him surprising
how'any such rtnnour could have gtnie abroad,
that it was the intention of his Majesty's Mini-
sters to do that which Would have been totally
contrary to the principles on which they seemed
to act. The couscgtience' of the increased duty
on wine had been, that in the port of London
alone there was a falling in the Revenue tri the
amount of 310,000 L, and. he bad -no donht that
there had het n a proportionable decrease all over
the hingdom. The result of the increase or the
duty on wine had been to verify the old saying of
Dvan Swift, " that in the arithmetic at the Excise
one and one did not make two.".

Sir J.. N swrorr liupe that when the slisetii-
sicm come onAlie Right iron. Chaucellor of the
Exchequer 'would be preplred to strew why., -;itt
Ireland, when there hod been an increase in the
duty on wine, in the proportion of five to two,
the :revenue had decreased by 200,000/.
Sir NI. IV, littneY spoke shortly but strongly
in f4vour of the necessity of reducing the Duty
on Wine.

Tl►e Petition was ordered to lie on the tattle.
SUSPENSION (W THE HABEAS CORPUS ACT.
A Message from the Lords announced that their
Lordships liad passed a Bill, untitled, " An Act
to empower his Majesty to secure and detain such
persons as should, be suspected of conspiring
against the State," to- which they desired the
concurrence of this House.

•
140 rd CA3I LeIIEAGH said, as it had bestnengrecd
to debate: the Bill on the second reading to•inor-
row, be s.u!►hosedd there wold be no objection to
its being read the first time ihk evening.
Mr. BENNaiI, objected to its being iced 'a first
time this night.

Lord C.tslLems,Ann said it seemed to have been
cle►trly understood last night, that the seine of the
House on this measure should be taken on the
second re►uling to-morrow, and, therefore, there
certainly could tit rut ok)jection to its being read
a.firSt tilnt this night.
Alr. PoNso certainly had been last
night .said that the Bill sl►+7tiltl be debated to-
morroiv, but nothing had been (Wid of a first
reading this night,

Ml'. Lk:` the coutrary, the Noble

Tior,l 14-t ri;glit expressly stated, that the Bill
0 41.4111 be lead a lirSt and second time to'.
morrow.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he really had no %VISO
to press the first reading- upon the House this
night, and would therefore postpone it till to-
morrow.
Mr. SAYERS presented.a Petition. from•the Bur-.
gesses of Renfrew, praying for Reiorm and Re-
trenchment.
Mr. CALVERT presented a Petition from the In-
habitants of Southwark, praying for Retrench-
ment and Triennial Parliaments.
Mr. Serjeaut OlgsLow spoke shortly in favour
of the Petition.
It was then brought np, read, and ordered to
lie on the table.:
Mr. A. WRIGHT presented a Petition from the
City of Oxford, praying for Retrenchment and
Reform.
Mr. R. FBRGUSSON presented a Petition from
the Corporation of Dysart, praying for Reform
and Retrenchment.
Mr. BENNETT presented a Petition from the In-
habitants of Church Stretton, Salop, praying for
Retrenchment and Animal Parliaments.
All laid on the table.
WESTMINSTER PETITION.

Sir F,BURDETT rose for the purpose of present-
ing a Petition which had been agreed to at a nu-
!Herons Meeting of the Inhabitants of Westmin-
ster, held this day, against the Bill for the Sus-
pension of the habeas Corpus Act. He trusted
that if time were given, Petitions to the.same ef-
fect would he presented from every part of the
• Kingdom ; and he took this-opportunity to pro-
test against the. illegal awl indecent way in which
it was intended to pass this measure through the
House. Wheri it was considered that three months
had elapsed since the 'time when this conspiracy
was said to have been-discovered ; that- it was
three weeks since the Com-mittee had been ap-
pointed to inquire into these plots,-it would sure-
ly he allowed that there was- no sufficient reason
for hurrying such a Bill through the House in one
or twoflays. Fle wished the 1-louse to nuderstand
that the Petitioners equally disapprovCd at the
other measures embraced in the little -_despotic
cantle which the Noble Lord had last night brought
before the House, although they bad finally fixed
their eye on that part of it which related to the
Suspension' of the most distinctive end best rights
of Itnglishmen.--11e•moved that -the Petition be
brought up. •

Lord COCHRANE spoke in favour of the petition.
For his own part, he could only say, that he knew
of no attempt against the Constitution—he knew
of no individual who wished to overturn it. Whe-
ther the proposed Bill passed or not, to him, in-
dividually, was a matter of nwimportance., But
he would never abstain on account of Act from
going to any public Meeting, or from meeting his
Constituents.. No power with which Ministers
might he invested by ibis, Act would ilithnidate
him. Threats of imprisonment, dinigeons, car
chains,, would have no weight on his mind. Ile
implored his Majesty's Ministers to pause in their
mad career—to relinquish those measures by which
they would effect that change in the Constitution
which they charged'others with attempting. Wit..-
titer the suspension .was to• be long or short---
whether it was merely to serve the purpose of the
moment—with Whatever view it was adopted, he
felt it his ditty to-protest against it.
Mr. LONG WELLESLEY said a feW words in so

low a tone that he was not distinctly heard in'
the gallery. We understood lihn to. say .that he
was convinced that the, respectable part of the
community were almost unaninion's in favour of
the measures proposed by Ministers, and that
it there Were time there would be counter :peti-
tions to those against the
Sir F. ButtueTT said, that all be wished WAS
ditit there should be time to ascertAin the senti-
ments of the Gentlemen of England.
Mr. ROBINSON denied that the Gentlemen of
England were inclined to sit still anid see their
country fought for by others. !fire bonds Of union
were not disturbed by the Gentlemen of England,
but by those whose object it to break all bonds of
union asunder. IVhy did the lion Baronet draw
such n picture of the Gentlemen of this country,
but to represent them as
,erwaged in a conspiracy
to destroy its liberties, -chile ,he believed ro his
conscience that they were combined. together for
the purpose of preventing such atrocities ?
Sir G. HEATHCoTA said a,few words in illus-
tration of the sentiments of the I-lou. Baronet.
The Petition was then read.
Ou the question that it do lie on the table,
Mr. 11. GUANBY expressed his Opinion of the
sense of the country being. in favour of the sus-
pension of the Habeas Corpus Act.
Sir F. ButtoeTt explained.
-Lord CASTLEREAGII denied that he had spoken
with any asperity of the lower classes of th peo-
ple. Ile felt as much admiration of, and respect'
for the lower orders, as any other man Whatever.
'What he. bad said was, that the suffering classes
were snore open tti delusion, froth ; the designs of
the disaffected. Ile had described the treason as
derraded, but not the community ; and he begged
leave to disclaim any such sentiments as had been
attribmied to him, and which Were completely ,
mistmderstood. lie considered the industrious
classes as entitled to respect as well us the pro-
tection of their superiors in life. •

Mr. Sam Ens Coctts thought it could not be
doubted that there was at this time .0 bad public
spirit amongst individuals, who were anxious to
take advantage of the general . distress, and turn
these meetings to their private and disaffected
views. No man was more Witicions ..than himself
to support the liberties of his country, and give
th,rn permanent support ; but he did not conceive
it justifiable to take advantage of .our momentary,
difficulties to assemble and make harangues to the
multitude, and assert that the doctrines inculcated
at sorb meetings were intended for the permanent
benefit of the country. In all countries, and at
all times, there had been distress ; but., the times
of distress formed the harvest of the disaffected.
(Hear, hear !)--,-He lamented as much as 'any one
the calamity that now afflicted the people, but to
assemble at public meetings at such a time, to
inflame the minds of the populace, was a mode
That must meet with the reprobatiQn of all wit°

were entitled to the description d
of the Country. -
Mr. PoNso;IBY wonid hare renisineth;k'
the Noble Lord above him (Cochroe)
rr
which
iautterediii there
ovas any thing
sentences
some observations. it the Noble 10,
t
ht
which attributed.totiltiliegipnetolii)eleba°nd;
coming to them, he, as,one who had givo':
sent to that Report, would beg leave too,';
him But he would say, as his on 01'11,1'.,
they hail_ lent themselves a little to the's;
malevolent persons, ‘vhieli it would 104
better it they had not done. Pist,ittwo
erroneous to suppose that there lotu
partiality or prejudice on the part of 00
bud framed the Report. lie would WI
learn. what could be attrihnted to hiulodf
ty or prejudice, which could have
to consent to that Report, lie thoulf,
would attribute to him any partiality"
l‘lksty' Ministers On the contrail,
sit "
ttations lite, he. might rather he
tit
having an interest ill doing Snell 0s
t 5
called popular. But he could assure 'l,
Lord that neither interest, poP'l,lB,l`,Toi
judice, had ever governed him 0 of
but that he had acted solely From a ‘eeiot
and be would never stiffer any feelinglo
With him in the discharge ofibt
it
Lord FootSToNS contended, dot
Otto
srnt(terraetss,uirinte
sc(oiaitpdt tp. a
cast otlied, tlitiol
caul
all
lirle 1011);Srteshl(lien0;11:tbo;11:
.11511

stay. .
ple of England. Now,
Mr. LAW said, the Noble Lail Inuill'id
Report, as being a libel by Ii fotnce °,ncel
that RePrr 'i-olto{
the higher classes, and almost tilt "qi,
middling and lower classes. Ilo'v ''',"`':ilitst
to select out of the whole popitl,ttithilloo
were tainted with disaffection 11''''' 's
were not. tiot
M r
. F. B
ust
ROUGHAM tlint.lit the-obser'floo
J heard to be a new construction °„ too:
the lteport, for either there n,ere "le', Cl
people of England •
f the agricult lira! classes liable t" col; 1
Ile consityved the Report as inisrell;o,
that Report a Bill of Judgment goinstaiot,
of England, by passing ,seurence sgeo
without trial. It was very cosy t° Pre.jfKki
order, and quietness; and stshordiaatte
..
nnfortossit.,,
vlio-Alitl not know what the
that the t al PH
suffered
; for their miseries were suot - 1
tletnan could form an idea of.
people but 11Iinisters lou'rhi.
14
A Ow ,41
Mr. W. ELLIOT had Stated, on.. lifo,
to the Const itut ion . The Report sttl'e`iiolfr,
were persons who were laboring °rot!,
all the principles mid bases of social °dots
their heads must, lie the conseqnes ,
4111;5S it may be necessary to atiot• Or
The petition was then ordered I°
1101 i
table.
of England were since'
1,010!
Of IV fr,
A '. • •
pctitton:frchn the Inhabitants d it",
Nottinghamshire, was presented al'i ty,
prayed tor a Reform iit PatlioateP"
Suffrage, &c. '
Mr• 11 m : f $ ittP
A/0 i • —.milli; gave nonce t) dio
;oust". qke'nnight, for a Dill to ell'e., '
. in the Court r of ,:schever. 1. ,
Sir NI. . LARDS OF Tag AI)MIRAP, to 011)1
' • W. Ittur.Ey said, 110 r,?5‘.1 tie,
humblew Aildress to his Royal 111411,",et;c gtir
Dle•gaiken,,t, praying that be wo7l";,,titt't
'of the to give directions furretloc''')idisitr'
fa 8 Lords COMMisSioners of the ,clotf:
r s in his wisdom might sea) "`" thtl
consideredo it more respectful f° leilVel 0 1
..tp,reduction to the discretion, °OO4
_ll_ !buttes's; and to leave it to the 11"cleiliiii
,' ant the precise number of those °'11:1 If
ue dispensed with. if he were ea ivi,g
state his own_opittion, he %cis° (If bra
I,l,llllther should be retlnced to fonr. to V',
tias a titne more proper than anotberotottoi,
aid such a motion, it was the PreanfiltY
certainly deserved the most 'serioas "erol ''''
of the Ilouse. There %vas an ti,nic,„l f roll' os
retrenchment and economy re.ecu°`' ipioo I.
9ttarter ; and the Duly difference of Id 00
be, whether the Noble Lord opposilereol di),
vtrnmenteconomy
had coutributid 10 'ilea; 1107
conomy 4 suffering these Plise'ell'holcle:itl,
long without reduction. Ile sile"',''ari"il
Sal is tied if this measure had oriff.'",t,i'sV P
Noble Lord himself; as every staple("liieref,l
have i i
-.•S own cordial support,. cotelY
not assure the notts`e that lie %volt' gel
Party motive in bringing it for"' "",,,I Ott'
forget the words put into his 110).00,y,
mouth at the bezirming of fast Solho 0 ,t.
the public were taught to beliere't aidli,ill,
t,renchnient would be made consistel,',i,at 11,
e of the State ; and he conk! not '''l,e're 1
Noble Lord and his lion. Colleaglie, st Otitili
lyt anxinuSlO express their wishes Ittifsbs,o IV
rton should be complied with• ,011)el,4
Atablishments were brought tlov''",•,v it,,i:
the Noble Lord, it was stated that t'',;;it ifli',l,,:
eel to the utmost possible degree ; ' ilipt7.
werei examined, the firmness of to o.ll°.;tA
I tear to be reduced still lower. • a cf tic
I."'" displayed itself on the occtl,9!tbeS'fctly.
tempt to continue the war salary '," doo c' d,'
when• .by the good sense and res":"'idigl)l7
"lel) I , that salary was redueed.• it .1 ibeirei
said that the Committee had diret4:corc(;i4
tson to the abolition of severai.i rlii 01 ft' t'.
best this abolition was not that ?1?-1,11 elv'.'
.ment which was looked for. 1.";:i tli ti„.
he really did cnt'ertaitt sonic (1"""i 011511011
Policy of the universal abolition ° 0 OA.
at any rate, the present disttess'ineredi,lij
relieved by such a measure to ail. roil O,1)1i',
tent. The Noble Lord had said 'l'ipi viit
of as
of Ministers to make a volutifenoitat'
as mulch of their salaries as tvlis test ba (IO
by the Property Tax. Ile received
test sorciect, iii
pleasurec i, hut it was not front
believed
the public looked tor or exPeciblie atiett
„elieved, and be was sure tile,l".ri oPVY
iteve, that the salaries of the( tslce•,oll tuairl.,
hti underpaid rather than lit heroic lf"roitl, oirij
(in° right to look for reductioas OP, 111
co' ii
perform I •
et active public dories; ber 0
silt ens 1
- ---Y expect it. But op the t" oft" t
I
had no right * selsri"
to expect that the
1

wanted in'etnplay Should he laid
lerS. Therefore, hu we ver triflimg
e that could arise from the retitle-
errs, it would be ett4reeahlY ac-
Were the Sinecure Offices. which
e away. He NITS far front wishing
respectable intik iduals, Who cons-
of Admiralty of any undue in
laid he enter into _tiny very long
dare ot theii office. It n'tts not
Previous to the reign ot
had neither arsenals nor clock-
s of war, ships were hired of the
the succe,sses of this Sovereign
nutittrt of Admiralty and Navy
°minis-sinners were appointed to
operations connected with the
a code of regulations was adopted
11l the time of Charles I. During
s of that reign, an alteration was
of Committees were appointed by
I revise the regulations, In 1645,
ere inj,frtinted, consisting of three
these Lords icceiveil 3i. a day
ees•--(Laughter )—At the period
Ise Navy was in comparative insig-
Iluriog his sway, it wag increased to
anti regular duck-yards were esta -
Hier the succession of his son, it suf-
atoilechy. The Hon. Baronet Conti-
he Progress of the Brit ish navy from
13 to the year 1775, under Lord S.,
► time the Admiralty Board consist -
is, and eince that time they hail been
He not mean to say that, at
e/' their duties might not have been
mire this number; but if these duties
there was no reason for
e Humber. While he should guard 414004 Of persons, it would be ne-
ar how the &aid \vas appointed.,
Secretary l'epys described the Lards
lily, of that tints,"
as being persons
ii, necessary to select for their, gleat
Rod unparalleled talents ito(I Per'
(Lan:Ater )—Perliapsit might not be
Ill'at the Loris of the present day did
''lisp to tile chi rat ter of St cret.ary Pe-
16'-tart: e
-ominis•iou appointed to en-
State of the Navy, concluded their
e reeolutnruding, as essential to the
moiy, that it should be placed under
tbiutial knowledge. and uninterrupted
the fittest to he loom' lor the various
int ditties they had to perform. II"'
i"'rs Goveruntent had attended to
In"filtinti of the Committee, he
th Muse to determine, when it
i)t"' they had appointed a Cornet of
1 Loril of the Ailiniralty.—(Laug
caePevents, six ',ands were not, nece,sary
and lie. should produce very great
14,'Itl'"vity in support of his seginnent.
1,i() the R m
eport of the Committee of
Cle Year 1797, and lie regretted that
tett more the cotton) of the !loose to
41't'ec't1 udvice ; for if the recominetull-
sth"tnotiitee had been Attended to,ot
.I,4ve idler) to make his preset"
,„',1,1e Committee had stated, Alai they ".101/1.1
"of the AdMiralty to be six n
,i)li''es the First Lord, and tlionglt °icy
any diiointition of the number in
Ile tit `Y recommended to the considera-
-101,145e Witotlier there mirht be,,af
p 05141411 it) tittle of peace, as well as "
ev, I • b Department,--
'ldat , °yet in e
12(;Pitntt WAS Wade, wt; had in coitilnis'
11 4 b"StiSs stud 140,000 seamen. We
b'te than 200 vessels of every
tg,ooo seamen. Could. .theroe,.,
La i""t; to Justify the continuation
Ie
I'lley were List year called useless
Ihept itittiq say tilvy Were, his pinion,
4elt'S% sinecure offices. lie was at
I wt
'nit ground his motion wO.l 1 1
tact 'e.-itlble I ord bad thrown out hints
1,0 o
"144,1 (),Per to attempt innovations, as
4,0,,„1- lint from wiletice did this charge
44,4 ? It was very inappropriate,
:e sante 1041 er was coming one Of
that was ever at tell pt ed
il3orttloil
C 11.
1111)011 the great bulwark of 0111.
41114 itt.l''otigitt it proved, that the btisi-
tu 1)7.: ill WAS Sc) Moth t hat
;"'e „,114431"IY reduced, andilie called on
'Phu the question nu the
'N wi;)". The lioursurahle Baronet then
principle
Gil I"'lYing the Adress.
li,aroft'etwuß4utt began by complimenting the
wh.
i"tl the 'impartial and temperate
le" he had delivered his sentiments
t 11,„,:)". Ile i)wetl it as apoint of candour
13
44114.. 4rtlllet
decytre that it was in his
ae 411) 1144
4'141)411' a lit‘test'iott of this nature;
1111:"Ight it wood t (.1e regular
cd't„4l. have been m
Ott wittittltal►l'.lo °net to hays enileavotired.
y had been the intentions of his
tit
61. AlliilMetS I)
tt he ii,ll " the subject ,or to have
► orta,,eotiet, Ascertained what Coarse WM"
bY the Committee on Itetrench-
le"r lteforms had always
;ttiv til2l i".COMICX1011 with a comprelien-
, e tier
and not as they were now,
Ftlst,ri eto reillictiott, •a• number of insulated n0v474)004
v474)004 %%idiom regard to their relit-
dql t.; .hstliiktl other branches of the public
14 . Pitt both made mo-
d,,c i! ett.
ti t►
the
e " e(ou -
test e ttn
pr eh t,tisiv' )1" they always founded them
, l
tut :
Ctiected, and extcn-
,,:lit
it etests of the country. [IC
1114 t the offices of this country
the rine% it)tint
le •td
.oy. it • tt, every office
ista,ss It could -he proved, that the
le ~t11.41 lahoor "4'4 14 be performed by a cant •1••
41111 1),
441 it totiti(m 1114, ,
.then the whole of
al'
be tide emllltry most he changed,
~..„n0t he 1,
.6°,.'11t1 that our public offices
(Lail uY such cl Ittr,N__, Persons as uow held
usi
tt, of a, wouhl drive out of office
'our wil4
y, 8
'I tie • 4lett tiff re the hest pledges to
itsto,. ewe,. • lees were not to be tried! by
a 4.1 k,
ue •
ark was (itilte.ntlet,,t. applied to )tankers'
j, 440ai 1mi„0;,.. le uttiouta Of (Ice- say.
'l;v4t v.l. or 40r,',
411, it would not ex
iftittl, 'odd be , rind ti
ilit(4 4of tine itiliwa the covet of such say
141, etuhe el the character of the
ht
,
10, lteutd their nut ies
tall
41"1*.--(l4,tu.lts

Noble Lord then proccedel to sbnw that tile du-
tics of the Lords of the Admiralty n ere by no
means diminished to the extent imagined by the
Hon. Baronet, as it was neeessat y that there should
always be a Board in London,- while three of
the Lords were traversing the country to inspect
the docks and arsenals, and inquire personally in-
to whatever related to the Navy. It was always
considt:red a wise principle to make the balance
of the-oumber of Lords be rather in favour of the
civil authorities than the professional men. Such
situations were calculated to quitlify young men at
the outset of life, by enabling. them to find a mo-
tive for studying the Constitution of their country.
From such situations. had arisen talents which had
forced themselves to the very summit of audio,
rity ; and even Mr. Fox. did not consider himself
I legraded by accepting one of these very offices
that were now derided. Sir Robert Walpole, and
others of the most valuable servants of the public,
had been brought into notice by such appointments,
the abolition' of • which would prove a serious
in-
jury to the education of public officers. The Noble
Lord referred to the time of Lord Spencer's Ad-
ministration, in proof that no reduction was
loomd necessary, nor was any in contemplation
if the peace of Amiens had. lasted. As to the
question of economy, lie pledged himself to meet
that question in every shape in which it could be
beneficial to the public ; but he must protest
against imputing any unfair motives to Ministers
for thrill arrangements in the establishments tho'-

ing the last Session. As far as the army was con-
cerned, it had not undergone any reduction front
that. was proposed by Government, who
had the second estimation in contemplation, as
soon as it was imagined that anv further reduc-
tion could be made. If the House looked at the
scale .of the public expenditure, it would be found
that Ministers had reduced it 700,0001. under the
lowest estimate of an Hon. Gentleman opposite
(Mr. Tierney). This was an earnest which they
had given to the House of their disposition to
economy. lie appealed to the Honourable
Gentkitten- on the other side of the HOuse,
who were Members of the Finance "Core-
mittee, whether they had discovered any symp-
tom in the Government to encourage a waste
of pain, money. He contended that the Crow)
should not be deprived of the means of rewarding
services. It had
.been propo-ed in the Committee,
and the principle had been adopted, that nil the
offices hitherto considered the light of sinecures,
should cease with the lives of their holders. There
was no office that had not undergone a revision
except one, and that had been given up to the
public by the magnanimity of Ilse noble individual
who held it. He trusted that the House would not
cripple the operations of the Admiralty, which
would be the case it it were prevented from de-
taching a Board to the out ports, whilst another
Board should remelts in town. If the Honourable
Baronet had shown that the influence of the Crown
had increased during the. latter years in a degree
dangerous to the libertiesitf the conntry—(flear!)
he would own that it was a ground for reducing
certain offices; but then the only question would
be to make a choice of offices. He contended, that
at no period of the English history had fesier offices
been holden by persons sitting in that House. At
the close of the,American war, the number of the
Members of Pathan-sent holding offices under the
Crown was doable its present amount, though
106 Irish Members had since been, added to this
liouie, only iix of whom bore an official chortle:
ter. if the 1-louse looked at the system of the army
and navy, and" contrasted it with that of another
period, when politics were Made the chief source
of advancement, the difference would be perceived.
He put it to the fair feeliugs„of the Honourable
Gentlemen opposite to illy, whether at the Horse
Gnards or the Admiralty, promotion Was given on
account of political principles.--(Hear, bear,
hear !)---:The patronage granted was liberal, and
directed to naval and military merit alone. The
tact waQ, that the influence of the Crown had
materially- decreased.—Under these circumstances
lie did not see that sufficient grounds had been
shown to drive from the House the few indivi-
duals in possession of offices, and-should move the
previous question.
Lord ALT/1014PB contended that the able, senti-
ments of the Hon.• Baronet hail not been properly
answered by the Noble Lord. What had been
said with respect of having an Admiralty Board
at the out-ports, and one in town, might be ne-
cessary its time of war,' bin not at a period of
peace. As to sinecures, the general opinion, in
which he conetnred, was that . public services
would be better rewarded by pensions than by
the grant of such sit nations. • The •.Noble • Lord
had omitted a most material item of the influence-
of the Crown—that which -it. derived Irons the
immense increase of the revenue, and the number
of officers employed in its collection.
Mr. Law considered the question, not on its
abstract merits, 'but as the groundwork of a sys-
tem of reductions.: The Home_ should recollect
when it should vote, that it was called upon,
to effect the destruction of two offices alone, hut
of every office its process of time,' Althen the body
Of the place was attacked, he would not give up a
single out work.--,(l.lear, hearl)Let not his
-Majesty's Ministers imitate the supineness of. the
Roman Emperors, who, whets, they lost a province,
consoled themselves .with the ides that they could
do without its produce.. Let them not say they
could-do without two Louis of the Admiralty; for
when they abandoned a single office, they would
abandon the principle on which their whole em-
pire rested.—(Hettr, hear!)--They had arrived at
the point where they could not retreat, where
thCy !mist take their stand and' fight' manfully.
As for hinssell be should never consent to strike
out of the hands of the Crown the only remaining
weapon with Which it could defend itself.---(ileer,
hearty
Mr. WARRE thought that although Ministers
bad gained an ally its en Hon. Gentlemen, with
time benefit of his vote, they were not much pleased
-with his fair avowal of the military, position
which they intended to assume. The Noble Lord
cantptained that the motion atta d
kad inc one o
Ica
• alone• But if his Hon. Frien had clud
Treater number, would lie not have been told, that
if he wished the question. to be entertained, be
must disentangle it ? Out of the six Lords of the
Admiralty, . one Land and three Sea Lords were
really efficient-men,- but it had not eyeu.been

remitted to he denier, that the wiser two were
complete sinecures. The Noble Lord had adopted
a course which was the inure unexpected, as it had
always failed him, one of recrimination. He cared.
not for what had taken place under former admi-.
nistrations ; if they had doue wrong, it became'
the present to do right.
Mr. T. W. WanD was of opinion that the lion.
Gentlemen opposite wished to go too far. They
not only attempted to take off the • useless em-
broidery, but to strip off even decent covering.
The motion ought to have been proposed in it
more connected forme. especially as a Committee
bad heeo appointed to consider what. offices might
he reduced or retained. But they were not sa
tisfied with that Committee. The names did not
please them. They wished it to have been coast
prised at those pure and disinterested mn e whal
for the present were uotionnecLed with- office ;
but it was impossible for any Committee to
keep paCe with such 'proceedings in the House,
for it might happen.t that the House might have
voteci away the very office 'Which the Com-
mittee' had directed should. be retained. He
Oleo defended those offices, the destruction of
Which Would limit the number of competitor; lor
the public service, and would lower the character
of that service, and make it fill into the battik of
the very worst of till oligarchies,.the oligarchy of
wealth. If Ministers -considered-their own inte-
rests and not the real good of the'country, they
would do better for themselves to sacrifice those
offices; for they would acquire more in popultoity
tha'n'they lose in official 'friends, whilst
their successors would have to coutend with the
consequences of the abolition.
Mr. BANKS& contended that an ambulatory
Board of Admiralty was not necessary in time of
peace.
Mr. Husteosole, argued that the proceedings
of
the Committee should not be the same as those
of Parliament. The recommendation to abolish
"should conie from the fOemer, and the execution of
the measure from the latter. If the offices pointed
not in the Motion were destroyed, the Board of
Admiralty would be left in a crippled state, and
incapable of any vigorous exertion.
Mr. CnoKatd stated that beliad examined with
all care the Naval Estimates since 165 ; and
that, with the exception of the. year 1691, in
which, probably, on account of death, the num•
ber of the ,Lords had been reduced to six ; the
first article of those estimates had regularly been
seven Lords of the Admiralty at 10001. a-year
each. So that the Office now intuited out for
abolition, was one voted by'our ancestors for 132
years without either intermission or any alteration
in number or salary.
Sir C. Pout contended that the Board: of Ad-
miralty,Ought to consist of naval persons, and
that the salary of its members had at times varied
from 10001. to 770/. a-year. Since Mr. Burchell's
time iu 1689 to the present there had been do per-
son appointed to be Chief Secretary who had no
knowledge of the neighbouring seas.
Mr. CANNING considered the question as the
begimiing of a series of attack on political office.r—
(Hear, hear!)--By the recommendation from.the
Throne, the attention of the House had been,
pointed more particularly to the offices' designated
under tba name gaff Sioecureb. thought 'not pre-
cluded from embracing others. Ministers had
consequently considered that class of offices in
which the public called most earnestly liar some
reduction, and the practical fruits of their inqui-
ries" been neither small nor slow in'their growth.
The Coimnittee bad proposed the reduction of all
those Offices which hail long stood in the public
view as blots and stains on the system.—(Hear,
hear I)—He had twice voted, in that House
to expedite a Bill, carrying among its other
contents the Abolition of all Sinecure Offi.es:—
To the contents of such a Bill, he was ready, as
well as his Colleagues, to give every support,
and so to shape the measure as to insure its suc-
cess.—(hear, hear !)—But he had too much ex-
perience to suppose. that such a concession would
satisfy those who clamoured to excite discontents
throughout the country. And. against whom were
thote.,elamours directed ? ,agitinst the /loose of
Commons. It might be thought that the Crown
recommended the abolition of Sinecures ; that the
Lords had passed Resolutions for that purpose ;
and that the House of Commons had been slow-
in adopting or executiag them. The language
of
flattery was addressed to the former, and nothing
but obloquy to those very Commons who had
twice abolished Sinecure Offices as far as k was
,possible for them to do. and whose progress had
been arrested by the Mouse of Peers itself. But
Ire knew that the object of those men Was to
vilify the House of Common's ; because, that
House once destroyed, the road was open to the
ruin which they meditated. (Hear, bear !)
%Viten once a Committee had been appointed, it
could not be wise to take a portion of its work
out of its hands., The House, he thought,
was the place where a general principle- ought
to be laid down, • and the Committee that-where
the details might be discussed. He then teplied
to the objection urged againsttte employment of
landsmen in the Board of Admiralty. The present
-men were disapproved of, because they were not
phocre wain :v. preserved in the Cabinet of au
lion. Baronet opposite—(Laughter, and. cries at
hear, hear 1)—or as Trincalu told Coliban, because
" they were not real sea-monsters"—(Laughter)--
the monsters which they wanted—(Hear, hear
Every motive of personal ease, every wish of. ob-
taining public confidence, arid getting their adver-
saries into their own trap, would have induced
Ministers to give those offices up, had they not
been convinced that they were not too many to carry
on the fair and active business of Parliament within
the walls of that House.
.As to the influence of the
Crown which was so ranch talked of, he denied that
it had increased, of late years; in any degree pro.
portioned to the relative increase of the-Influence
of public opinion. To prove this, he entered
somewhat at large into the different ways in which
the influence of public opinion hail grown up so
as to be a most powerful counterpoise to the in-
fluence of the Crown; and, amongst others, men-
tioned the effect produced by the publication at
the debates in that liouse•----a power which in-
fluenced every man who spoke in it, and under the
influence of Which he then spoke ; because he knew
" that, to-morrow,what he said this night would be
submitted to a thousand eyes, and criticised. by a

_Monson- tongues, and that even any verb:A
inac-
curacy into n hick he might fAll would not pass un-
noticed. But even in point of the number of the
Servants of the Crown who had seats in that House,
what a change bad taken place within the last half
century 1 During-the Whig. Administration of Sir
Robert Walpole, there were upwards ot a hun-
dred Menthe:3.of that House who held offices t!t
the pleasure of the Crown, whereas 'now; there.
were only forty-nine'.—(Hcar, hear !)—He con-
cluded an eloquent and impressive speech by
pluring the House not to yield to the alarms which
were endenvone...d to be excited front the conduct
and threats of demagogues,
vc_to were despised by
all sides of the lionse ; but to disappoint the
hopes of those who would persuade them on false
igrounds -to-support the motion of the Hon. Baru-
iiet,..—(Lnud cheering.)

Mr. BROUGHAM Whiled to bring back the House
to. the question before itr.„ from the considerottoa
tit which the light Hon: Gentleman who spoke
last.seeined to have on purpose withdrawn it.
That Right HOLl.(ientleman had said much abut
what was done by the Committeel,appointed. to
inquire what offices could be dii,peusell with.—
Now, on this very ground, be was withug to meet
the Right Hon. Gentleman. What hart t hut COlll-
- Not whrit the Right Htiit.Gent.ltbtl
rather inaccurately said, abolished ten places, but
merely taken a leaf from the bookof the Rig t
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Binkes), aud come to the
resolution ot recommending 'to the House, at the
expiraiiim of a certain- period, LO ahottsh certion
places. But the great question before the Himse
was, whether they were to agree to keep up these
MA places, which, it bad heen admitted- on all
sides ot the House, were useless. One of those
efficient situations was occupied by a Noble Lord,
Who, at the same time, was performing the ditties
of an,Officer of Liavally at Catubray. If this was
one of those otlices which was fitted fur training;

up to habits of business, those young men of high
families or high taleuts who wire to bealestitted to
fill high offices in the State, surely there shotad.be
so►ne Intstness to_ transact. Upon the wholt;
ire
could not hut treat the speech of the (tight Hon.
Gent. as an at tempt-to put down by a clamour, that
Popular in the llon,e, all attempts at economy and
retrenchment. 'I hose dem►►gogues, Who by ►►ne
voice in this House, were disavowed, would not
thank the House for such a retrenchment ; they
would call it paltry—a pretence, and done' merely
to put off the question of Reform. If this argu-
ment was to be alloived it would be equal to saying
to those who had fronted the report which recom-
mend the abolition of offices, tht►t they had (ranted
it merely to countenance the clamour out of
doors, and to :pierce. the Constitution through
its side. As to what had been said by the Right
Hon. Gentleman, of the relative diminution of
the influence of the Crown by the influeece of
public opinion, there was one, very short answer
to it ; that when there were 100 plucemen in that
House, they liad only the patronage arising from
the management of a revenue of abort twenty
millions a year, whereas now, when there were
only 50, there was that arising from a revenue of.
60 or 70 millions a year. He begged Members to
recollect, that the vote of this night would not be
final and irrevocable : but that; if the motion was
agreed' to, and the mathine of the State was
found to sutler from it, it might easily be me..
trieved. He denied. that there was any t-Iting,ap-
plicable in the sort of to quoque argument of ask•
ing of those on his side of the , House What they
had done when in office, because then the ettun-
try was at war and, besides,. such at guments
were nothing to the people whose interests ;hey
were there to consult.
The House' then divided=

For the Motion
Fur the previous Question... 908

.11:2

Majority bG
Adjourned at ilalf-past One this Morning.

EAST INDrA HOUSE,

Yesterday a General Court of Proprietors was
held at the East India House, for the purpose of
continuing the adjourned debate on Mr. Jackson's

IllOtioll.

Mr. Hums addressed the Court in a long speech,
in which he pointed nut various defects of the:
College in Ilertfordshire, and'contended for the
necessity otinquiring into the manna'. in which
it was at present conducted.
Mr. FRESHFIk:i.D observed, the College now ap-
peared to be attacked for no other purpoSe. than
to support the Hon. Gentleman who had brought
forward the motion. It was said that inquiry was
all that was wanted ; but lie would say, that this
inquiry was nothing but accusation.
Mr. LowNnas contended, that a string of facts
had been brought forward, which it was imposw
to controvert.

After much desultory conversation, the debate,
was again adjourned to Tuesday next.

SUPERIOR MEDICAL. ADVICE.*—Drs. COPPER,
Musatoa, and Co. of Chad Ate-house, opposite
the Rev. Rowland Hill's Chapel, have established
another Medical Board in Woodstock7strcer, Ox-
ford•street, adjoining New Bond,street , where ot
Physician :old Surgeon, Alernliers of the Royal
College of London, of thirty years experience.
reside. That thousands have been restored to
health by their united talents, without confine•
merit, is indisputable, after hospitals had failed.
Eruptions on the head, face, and body, ulcerated
throat, swellings in the neck, nodes un Jim -shill
bones, cancers, strictures, fistulas, pains in the
head and limbs, and nervous debility, are diseases
which appear years after, and often destroy domes-
tic happiness. Messrs. COOPER, MUNROE, and Co.
are consulted daily sit both houses, until nine at
night, where all the Members of the Board alter-
nately attend. There are side doors at each
house, and private roans for females, who are
treated with the greatest delicacy.. Advice gratis,
at Charlotte House, Mackfriars, Tuesday, Thins-
day,- and Saliday and at Woodstock-house,
Mondiy, Wedoesday,Eriday, and Sundays, until
13 u'clot.k.

The Piles and Fittula cured without outtinif