The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-16 00:00:00

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"e
thought if they could be of a conciliating temper and spirit
It'"'" d'"ssing questions of this kind, they could better attend
o•the advice rontained in her Majesty's speech, to apply their
ilib,n_d_st.otor Improving the social condition of a e,eeple who were
IT"", e kind-hearted and genereu,, but wino had been too
,al ,negleeted, and thus developing the i esources of that beau-
land. With res wet to the mo•ion ef the Nob.e Lord the liernber for Londen,lit was a mere party attack of one great
division of the House upon the other, and, of course, they should
all be found voting under their particular banners.
sel.ord HO WICK, who was in the commencement of Insob-
tions somewhat iiiaudible, was understood to say that '
Rap
litides the House it seemed, as far as the debate had yet
te be admitted that no prospect had yet been held out by
her I‘lajstys Government of a measure whieh should produce
emanterit and
tranquillity in Ireland The House would re-
"'her that immediately before the Right Hon. and Learned
°r ma got up to speak, the Right Hon. Banes the Se-
p-r`tare of State for the Home Department had risen for the
rsubril)°,se, of explaining certain expressions used by him and
ii which nad been adverted to by the Right Honourable
Dentnlier for Kildare ( Mr. More O'Verrall). It
athartearr' (1 to him ( Lord Howick ), he confessed,
Zed e'e Right Hon. Gentleman's explanation we.; longer than
the same
:lot so clear as the words he tad originally used: but,, a. t
thei -anie time, he had not perceived any material difference i r meanine. If he understood the Right lion. Baronet's
erords
Nom aright', he (Sir James Graham) had been told by his
latl,'„eriend the Member for the City of London ( Lord John
sot ttiat we hart military occupation of Ireland, which was
lie `l"erned• The Right Hon. Gentleman replied (and. if
, Mistook he could correct his words)—., Yes, we have mut-
atZirteienpation of Ireland, and
.it was necessary that - e
wrest • "aye It when we saw obvious signs of a design
dto
of th tt from us by physical force." Thoie were the ss or 3
of thae;Right Hon. Genileman. What was the real meaning
Ile,,;'' oaYine they had military occupation of Ireland?
tsrc,u`e they perceived indications of an attempt to
avhs‘ it from them by physical force.—{ Hear, hear. )
eat "tkt did that mean, but that they were conscious that through-
disafr great body of the frisk% people there reigned a spirit of
a e'lt•°n—that they were retained in their allegiance, not by
thenf" of „duty',t but be a sense of prudence, in consequence of
oree t Gov'ernment were able to maintain there—d
theierat' hear)—that their hearts were alienated from tili.ehmt,
wasan
1115 real tested, not upon affection, but force? l
etateeat Meaning, of what the Right lion. Gentleman
her
aia.ea---that was the real meaning of the measures whic ir
doteitY't Government had adopted. But if that was the real
it%a 0 things he wanted to know— and the Right 1
irahle Gentleman at the same time admitted, that
Ile had state which could not permanently continue.
Tilp ad told them that they could not always govern by force.
of thin 'night do so for a time—for a short interval such a state
Roterg' 'flight be endured—but as a permanent instrument of
were then„-"
in Ireland force was entirely ineffective. Those
d,,, ,i 7 vrords of the Right Hon. Gentleman. But having
Al ~‘ nat admission—when the Right. Hon. Baronet, the
trieesTuer for Devonport (Sir G. Grey) having
.quoted that
had ,irnarkable declaration on the part of the Go,rnment,
the upted what were the means they proposed for recoverhing hehiaoections of the Irish people—what rational. prospect t
re.):
vailedut of getting rid of the spirit of disaffection whficolinp
- theNolo. ;...ritt)rigst that people—what was the answersor:
for the
_,°i'd, the Secretary for Ireland? He was he
Butfelt
I;ehnetnlereal:kifE4ulty in which his Noble Friend found himself.tat the
a question of such vast importance asi. that,
texj, "la' holding the highest, situation in immediate ,con-'
ieet,tei, with the Government of Ireland could do
filo nnogf but
distrib°rYl'ard with some miserable details in de ence
how
tint nen of patronage, and of attempting to prove
that er,'"u Food his intentions were towards Ireland. When
ztheeascantaltehtiistnNe ohbole Friend could come forward with—while
(Lord Howick) Knew his ireentions were
freig:Zl a' he stated—when he heard such a statement as Chit.
5e.(1.41' Noble Friend, the case must be very serious indeed.
tefleetaer' hear.) Had her Majesty's Government seriously
tie tel,e or, the import of the words they had used,
ins o
tlicare"titee ereatnese of the danger those words f
each e' Did they suppose that in the existence o
esss keeneral disaffection as that, that it . was a
L'l'ti f'''fit,ere they could wait for a more convenient sea-
-I:lttr'r er°l)°sing better measures—did they suppose that every
tta, trueofdelay was not of the utmost importance ? Why, it
tibead, while peace lasted, while they were not attacked from
4,lee to
,lit3e.believeil there was no sort of danger of openresist-
exhibit t eir authority, and that if there were such resistance
Islitsd, e.di he was certain it would be repressed. While peacef
,tbiing it Was true. But the very consequence of that state o
`oar:, aa still improvement in Ireland was arrested
Was fined relation of life wasmisoned, and the whole country
their a" with strife and ill-blood ; men's passions raised, and
l'rodeengeer excited one against the other, and a state of society
were foe' which, he thought, must be intolerable to all who
tete oi,cised to abide amidst it. That might be the utmost ex-
Nele the
elvil, and Ged knows, it was bad enough. But he
qtreign "t bad the reflected what would be the
.resnit if a
/''re ir.,W,Y broke out—what would be their situation if they
eligteri^'l° tolled on to carry on a mortal struggle
.for their
Shot ready
~z:ii n of the whole population of
.the empire were
ee Y Were take part with them, but against them7when
I,4itiss th'erer,ae, 00 the first favourable opportunity, to rise up
Pt') civil -!'°vernment with that deadly hatred which sprung
a
'keret, th dissensions? Did they really consider how fear ul
illselon enat,"as? Peace mieht continue, but it was more than
that the -ettel say that it was to last for ever. Did they not see
°O evere continuance of such a state of things furnished them,
t}ie Y Pett •
,0 mtiree
_. misunderstanding, with a temptation, knowing
; otistee, °',Lngland's weakness, to ask for that which was in•
'oe, „e,, with her interests Did they not risk, by maint
41',Ittll adeursair state of thing.s, the power of. earryingonnwoa,%i
"'Medi `age ? That was the effect of the policy
told °wards Ireland.—( Hear.) He knew what he should be
, ...tha,
~titin„
_,' those were things which ought not to be publicly
,waise,-„"e,n--that the danger7of the country ought hardly to be
93' f ;he'', Much less publicly mentioned in that House. If,
1,1.1 ee',„earing to speak of the danger they could get rid of
,ere,i'eriee ; if, however they might delude themselves as to
Nod b state of things he could believe that it was not under-
'report Y those to whom the knowledge of it was -of such
Nipti,,anee--if he did not believe that to open the eyes of the
friht:tp.'is.
ttoo
etharerysiintugation in which they were placed wan the
such measures as that situation required-
17)191teedol
that
entertain that conviction,. he. should not have
hire fad of nat state of things. But, thinking so, he should
„:Itich beehtni, his duty if he did not tell them the danger in
d
katin e ieved them to be ; and here he could net awe'
eals, i gan observation which had been made over and over
t( to Jr el that House, that it was not the existence of agitation ,
r!t'ljnd that was the source of that danger, that it was not
41,112 ° ent language sped at meetings, that it was not the enor-
tlthe
p'etnopulletitu.des that attended, those meetings, that it was not
I,,,e'rP:al being organised by _
the Repeal Association nor the
rent, that in themselves constituted the danger. Thos.::
Whi Linerely the signs and symptoms of the disaffection i
Retitle
the danger really consisted. He believed there was no
tha,'!ernan of ordinary reflection who did not agree with him,
Nett was the state of mind which prevailed amongst the im-
ttl,ation in that country which constituted, and alone consti-
itifed, the real danger. If so, did it not follow as a necessary
Ott,.,,enee, that by merely repressing the outward signs of clis-
Raefet they did no real good, unless they removed that discon-
aij,rorn which the signs proceeded? Nay, instead of doing
ittt it was possible they might thereby increase the danger.
fs,leY might do so by blinding their eyes to the
tlic of its continuance, and by rendering more bitter
the'be, feelings of discontent by the very means which
teAdlook to repress the agitation. Then he said, if they were
er4; P of the policy of her Majesty's Government, they must
eti 4ier seh , .
the ether it had been directed to regain the affections
tears People of Ireland or merely to repress the power of re-
ie weascad maintain external obedience to their authority.
qedi,lll2o from denying that force was necessary tot obtain
'hertitae7 and to prevent the authority of the Executive Go-
,e re ;t and of the Imperial Parliament from insult. That
;1:il'of by admitted ; but he contended that the measures which
tik :,, adopted for that pus oce should have been considered
" 011;;;,,eakt, care, and of a very pnioderate character ; and that
l',:ieti Cuined with others they would be of no avail. Now,
tviiree4euteame to consider the conduct of her Majesty's Go-
fo'Y had ',!t. did appear to him that whatever degree of vigour
till' represstiiisPlayed, it was confined entirely to their measures
lare, measures I external signs of disobedience ; and that even in
th'o' Of prii, adopted fur that purpose there was a singular
the reea,nee, of foresight, and of firmness ; but that with
4 otticr dres
.there had been combined little or nothing in
tOattriing orfeett,tori. Of the measures having for their aim the
the
Prert,isette affections of the Irish people, he must say
°kr People h A held out were infinitely below what
li Nei ft° a right to expect, and infinitely below what the
,trae,, '' of the
'''ti --)
in the ease demanded. In the last session of Par-
hey,t-°4 of th 'very remarkable debate which took place on the
folly an that et Hon. Member for Limerick (Mr. S. O'Brien),
of / what ~,,,(rlhe Opposition) side of the House had stated
.very
the r,elaed
r_ ! the measures which they thought the situation
lttlease ;Aired,
He (Lord Howick) himself had. troubled
a :yery full statement of his own opinions on the
raj! dot
,Petha
eiticias, as a.,,P.' tu doing so he went beyond the strict line of
helot 'espen"solat.Tleltendent Member of Parliament, having no
Nitlt
se with I,itY. and being able to boast of no personal ac- '
st,o ry o full Ireland. But he thought the situation of that i
Ihelleß °Dinie, of danger that it was the duty of all who had I
IV% Krotirld ",
thatto the neCessit , of a change of policy, to state
l'Pßerf °,!‘erll'rals °pinion, fer die consideration 0nt0.aj41LJ,,,,,a ,rciocr.,,, that'oahned
„Clif)pothsiis House. In reply what was
te,;',°, bin- erninent Opposition
side of the House, her Ma
',Cu -. th, matte many objectiens to what was pri,,. the ~so, that his ?neeested nothine whatever of their own. So
plact`anne, ot:selio Noble Friend, the Member for London, et
'lieeitil aria ~, rved that really they seemed to have changed
taiilt '°f4 as'ltlenleti from the Opposition side seemed to be
gill ee':,f, o oa.,,stit,..eYe.o
,were entrusted , vs, ith the solemn
n their offi-
w..eh a ii'oo sibilit,"'_onnltl J,,, to Parliami tl
i,lo't try,
%,,P! oft -1„,,:'„,. L scheme of . policyo ash eh mielt•
JestsY itint.inle 1 '
t, Right 1111)`7 the distractions
to at ' unhapp,
,15y, e "ruble ta (kn. Gentlemen oppositenseemed ens:
he should ra-
thi' Gee4rPltlg—et tsh of criticising—perhaps, wising —p.er,
aPs2ed. Her Ma-
01 'Y took ve"iment had, ine hof poilicy su'ghei to euegest•
I,4titield
1, the we
_,,, at Lat. time, not ing-,,
I.lal ttarropose:ao_t, recess to consider what measures.they
e st, e,?flet th "
, what were those measures of the Right
tiell who net `, ecre t a r fSt t for the Home Depart-
Ware ertaini,
al
__ y 9
A- 4 he, ' She . a .v‘taoYe dlit display
_tie the,best advantage
i,,,,T,"5t bas kith all" 4
his
toffercotol
itheholwoutshee.m—(Laugtter. )
nothing but ;
:.'lll, that berioll. account of emptuy could
es. He had told them
Jig
~e';iteell wa, ‘j,
ton
they were to introduce a Registration
iti ad tov,e the Jude an extension of the county franchise,
ec`ttlire into teiern n voters from some vexatious formalities.
satetieeticito
ofthe taawitioat a commission had been appointed to
liatketaa,,° lam' . and practice in Ireland in relation. to the
t
Ph ' eibi,,'T Which t'h,aTtd.that was all positively of the slightest
qtitai i" he him i• Right lion. Baronet had to offer, at a
h. Y ke,,°ree of i'e,f had admitted was so critical that all the
1,,h, i , do__ reiatid
lik,?, High, "pt
we be ~ as arrayed against them, an. d was
reit:tile:lt ' liaro4, Positive military force—that was all the
sa,o'S, •.,,,I.Was ahiet; the Secretary of State for the Home De-
tistia'tlre „rut'', With
r° 'uggest to the British House of Corna-
8t ellt%e if great] espeet to the Bill for registration, such
nt '
Nt ,if • Y fed;
s,ri tulva gtven in , and the extension. of thecohue
ofe
%pi,. leap jitage,
a., ~a leral and confiding spirit, would
oe 't tist`tear) ':t would
that
great and crying wrong;
1„4," boort vroled
note trusted that it would be conceived in
gr:ln, krid---- Hear,hlie a new insult concealed under the guise
',filet. 110',4 so, the
) He hoped it would turn out a real
tte trleas, at the w°t'id remove a wrong which was very
t'i 11,"litle seUre'• he „sarne time, unless it was coupled. with
tee e ftis oeid e_ uld tell the Right Hon. Baronet its only
the ass ends r, that it would arms into the hands
"f oth "relacd
taiolcortml.
.er more . ,and thus enable them to insist on the
' t al 1416° rel tibittantial grievances. With respect to
etas 0 to ,ruve ating to
land, he trusted that that
o:t,3lthrtf, leitelyiPtrenteraclvianintaggeous but he confessed he
some doubts on that point.
tie,t,nte:,'Pect ~4,l,tihat the social condition of Ireland was
lee„ alles,Y cane,' ,cy, neglected. Some improvement was
digit
do;ty's Gov"erinr, but it was another question whether
Ly i tot ~eathriVing at tnt;.:nt
.had adopted the most judicious
sa,ssain cc could
notat improvement ; and he c.onfessed
cqt ttatio. iat cornrni, . c vvithout some apprehension, that
4441 iLlifil'i•Whieb heresn' they might have excited vague
it„ er „., trig. ,_, a ter there would be not a little diffi-
th 4to -.Pastlre 'lc could not but believe that a very much
s ir, eel, , ei real im r stitn Ns eml oee eaistie
..1) ovement now, would h iv.e done ,
tkti7Jl,sferri.:_,ple en thisnsig tifferences, and quiet the molds of '
4,1 IP% Ilad `11) t° a later t
fettr!jeet, than even a much larger mea- '
tiap_ereas_
aeen „lore y,sio.d, and coning when their expec-
laie,`9 este° ble a,,r.al e!t• Ile did not think that that was '
is.r. i,e
‘'.rt.;lll,l
1,4 l'.en,lon ; and he confessed he did not ;
141,,re.r,,,,,11it5jec,.
„t)cit was impossible to legislate at once '
4 lii.iit'n•t hal 4, :Id aPrear to him, that if heti Majestv'e
their
pew_i, !ceetleci at once to obtain the best assi;t- I
")10 considering what improvements of legis-