The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-26 00:00:00

CATHOLIC ASSOCIATION.

Mr. MOORE rose, pursuant to notice, to present
a petition from the Lord Mayor, Sheriffs, and Commoners
of the city of Dublin, against the Roman Catholic Associa-
tion in Ireland. In presenting this petition he felt it ne-
cessary to say that he conceived this Association as cal-
culated to disturb the peace and endanger the safety of
the whole kingdom. The petitioners pointed out the
evils which were inflicted upon the community at large
by its proceedings, and they requested that the House
would interfere and use the most prompt and efficient mea-
sures for its suppression. He should have confined himself to
moving that the petition should be received and read, but that
as he was in total ignorance of what were the intentions of
his Majesty's Government, he could not reconcile it to
his sense of his own duty were he to omit offering a few
observations to the House. If this were not deemed a pro-
per occasion for so doing he would sit down, but if it were
the fitting time, he would entreat the indulgence of the
House while lie did that which he conceived to be his duty.
He need scarcely remind the House, that previous to
the year 1825, the Catholic Association had attracted the
attention of the Government, and the consideration of its
proceedings were solemnly submitted to the Legislature,
upon which occasion the great majority of both Houses of
Parliament declared that it was a dangerous and unconsti-
tutional Association. The result was, that a gill
was immediately brought in for its suppression, and
the ablest Advocate in that House had recommended
them to submit to the provisions of that Bill. They pro-
fessed to do so, and did in fact keep within its provisions,
though they violated the spirit of it by immoliately creating
a new system of Association. The Bill of 1825 confined
their sittings to 4 consecutive days, but this new Associa-
tion had so framed its constitution, that it exceeded 14 days,
and yet kept strictly within the provisions prescribed by the
Bill. They were the same body, and they possessed the
same powers, and the same authority, and were in fact the
same persons
also
the °
nd
controlling the Catholic affairs, association
they were likewise
iA "
power of wasd directing composed.ctin
They
continually interfering in all the great measures of
public policy. Every possible objection that was urged
and maintained in 1825 against the old Association applied
with force to the new, and more could Ise raised which did
not apply to the former Association. He would not then
enter into a detail of their proceedings, but would direct
the attention of the House to the fact that some objects which
were in infancy in the old Association, had been matured by
the new. He would also call the attention of the House to
the connexion between the Association and the Priesthood
of Ireland, and to the multipieity of agents disseminated
through all:parts of that country, under the specious pretext
of collecting Catholic rent. A system of organization had
been contrived by them, and extended through the country,
under the patronage of the priesthood, aided by indivi-
dual members of the Association. After all this, it
surely was not too much to designate it a frightful political
engine. It was an independent Roman Catholic Republic
living within a Protestant Constitutional Government,
moving in the same sphere as the Government of
Ireland, legislating with the same influence, and some-
times even eclipsing it, and deranging its movements, and
producing a powerful effect on the social and political
system of Ireland. It was unnecessary to enter into a dis-
cussion, or prove by a train of reasoning, the baneful in-
fluence that such a system must produce on society.—
He need not refer fur that purpose, to those treasonable and
sanguinary associations, such as the Ribbon Association,
against which this Roman Catholic Association had ad-
dressed an exhortation to the peasantry of Ireland. God
forbid that he should raise his voice to question the sin-
cerity of that exhortation ! God forbid that he should
insinuate that there was the remotest connexion, either
directly or indirectly, between the Catholic Association
and those Associations ; he knew that there were in that
Association gentlemen of the highest respectability, of the
moat undoubted loyalty, and of the first rank of the Catho.
lic aristocracy; gentlemen of high and honourable feelings,
and who would he horror-struck with the idea of having
the name of that Association coupled with those san-
guinary Associations ; and he therefore thought that
any tking which he might bring forward would not
be understood even to insinuate that any connection existed
between the Catholic and those Associations; be would,
at the same time, say that he must be slightly acquaintes!
with human nature who did not know that the best men;
engaged in the ardent pursuits of objects of interest of

ambition, however ionocent might be their own views °
the means employed by them, were sometimes apt t:
overlook the dangerous nature dint tendency of the
schemes by which they sought to advance their objeet°'
He could not conceal from himself that those saeguirlarY
Associations received some sort of encouragement from tbe •
example of a body like the Catholic Association, cetil •
independently and utterly regardless of the Governme," 4
The general influence of this Association upon the It
of its proceedings, connected with the occurrences of Community was not left to conjecture, for a careful peril'
the
day, would slimy the instances in which it infinencd
the feelings of the Irish population. He should self:
one of many instances, and one which came home ta
privileges of that House. He did not state the fact PI
his own knowledge, but the source from which he Om
derived the information was such as to induce him to
it the fullest credit, and as it was one which might be essii,
disproved if incorrect, he had the less hesitation in bri4. •
ing it forward. It was well known what an outel) j
was raised by the Catholic Association against tI4
SuMetting Act, and that the Hon. Member for Water'
ford presented a petition from that body against that Aer'ti
That Hon. Member, in the assertion of the dignity ea,„
characterl of an English senator, avowed himself fries
to the principle of the Act against which the petition "I°., •
directed, but the consequence of that honest assertion of
opinion called for the censure of the Catholic Association;
which discussed his conduct at the bar of their tribunalli°,
denounced him, and in less than 48 hours after this cost°.
wss pronounced, a riotous assembly, influenced by snob Pr:i
ciolings, rased to the ground e range of fences erected
upon private property. He would say that the RomanDrh:s
lie mind of Ireland was not only susceptible of poison, 11-,
that it was actually poisoned by the Catholic Ausociatil
and a stronger proof of this assertion could not be orri;
than the circumstance which he had just stated. I'
were asked whether he could remedy the evil at pro
he should say no—(hear, hear)—but it was
for him to say what the decision of that House or of Lh
Government might he. The Hon. Member having a"
verted to the Convention Act, and the Act of 1825,
vaned, for the consideration of the Law Advisers of the v't
vernment, whether the proof of the identity of the prep
Catholic Association with the separate Meetings of
Roman Catholics would not be, under every considerstl°oi
sufficient to bring this Association within the operatie,'
the law. He did not take up this question as a party tos.46'
hostile to the Catholics; but if he did, he should cel`L-
them to continue the Association, as the hest means cf 7,
barring them from the attainment of their professed °
ject—Catholic Emancipation.
fc
Mr. S. RICE rose to support the object of the ..°0
Member, but he did not so upon different grounds fe°o
those urged by the Honourable Member. It
always the practice, previous to a discussion olc tbt
Catholic Question, to introduce some question calcootj
to produce a warm discussion, and to prejudice the quesOd
of emancipation, which ought to he discussed calmly
temperately. He did not say the petition now present
was intended for that purpose, but it was well calculated
have that effect. For argument's sake, ho admittb
that the Catholic Association was a grievance 'iti°c„
was greatly to be deplored, and which ought to be sole
pressed. He (Mr. S. Rice) was as anxious for the sue
pression of the Association as the Honourable 10ej°
her could be ; and he thought this petition not oral
a petition for suppressing the Catholic AseociatiOf
but it was also a petition for Catholic Ernancipatioirl j
Every thing else had been tried without success to 17e
down the Association, let the House now try t,
effects of Emancipation, and he had no doubt of the rio
suit : for his own part though he had been attacked in tot
Catholic Association, and was indifferent to the applause
es
intendediol
censure of that body ; he contended that the Cathe'b,'
Association had a right to express its opinion on the P°4,,,
lie conduct of publicilnis ();
cat He
e n
tbut dido the Act'
renewle not
was k net
ow nviof-
suppressing;t er his Majesty'stheCatholic
Ministersic l
that Ireland could not continue much longer in its pre°
state.
tea'
The petition was brought up and ordered to be prio
Mr. 11100 RE presented several other petitions trova Iry
corporated trades in Ireland to a similar effect. th
Mr. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from the i-cir be
Riding of the county of York, for protection against t
importation of foreign lead ore.
Mr. LIDDELL moved an Address, lac., for an aocoo
of the total number of prosecutions for forgery on the /33,°4
of Great Britain, during the last ten years; and a OW'
return as to the Bank of Ireland far the same period. t,
Mr. S. COOPER gave notice, that on Tuesday Deit,."
;
the 2.1 of May, he would call the attention of the House
the One Pound Bank Note Restriction Act.
Lord G. SOMERSET presented several petitions 5
the Friendly Societiee Bill, as did Sir John Aetley,
Wiltshire.
Sir H. PARNELL presented a petition in favour rri
Catholic Emancipation, from Queen's County.
Mr. CA LCRAFT presented a similar petition from Pr
Chester.

TITHE COMNIU rATION. 'Oll
Lord Viscount MORPETH, in presenting a pet SlO/
from the parishioners of the Union of St. Mary's, Pe
Ross, county of Wexford, referring to proceedings in°
Consistorial Court of Foams, read largely from the state
ments of the petition. It appeared from these, that 111.0
parishioners of this very extensive union, between 80,0.4
and 40,000 in number, had, some time since, offered w,
incumbent, the Rev. Mr. Morgan, to allow him betavr!
1,200/. and 1,4007. per annum, in lieu of putting out ha
tithe in kind. This offer was made in 1828, which ‘fej
a year of great agricultural distress; and pending the oa
successful negotiations that subsequently ensued, for WI ;
ing such arrangements into effect, the matter came nolli
the provisions of the Tithe Act, into the Ecclesiseiref
Courts. Of the enormous expences incurred there, and
the conduct of the Commissary, these petitioners 00,
cially complained ; and they prayed, that in future, wt;
reference in all disputed claims might be direct to te'
superior Courts, passing over the ecclesiastical juriedicti',
altogether.
Mr. 'MOORE defended the conduct both of the Revery('
Commissary and the Incumbent in refusing to become
party to an arrangement, his acquiescence in which was
matter perfectly within his own option.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD supported the petition. 'lO,
Hen. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Moore) had said the
the Courts of Law established for the purpose of cleallol',
with cases of this description were sufficient for all the Fe"
poses of justice. in order to enable the House to eatimetf
the value attached to such an appeal by the parties thels
selves, he would report to the House the answer he receive"
to such a recommendation from a substantial farmer 1°
Ireland. The answer was this—" Plase your Honour'
would you have me carry my cause into Hell, wkere tbs
Devil's Judge ?" (Much laughter.)
After a few words from Dr. PHILLIMORK, Mr. LAMA
and Lord Morterril, the petition was read, and order'.
to he printed.
On the motion of Colonel SIBTHORPE, returns were,
ordered of the quantity of Wool and Woollens importe
and exported during the last three years.
Colonel SIBTHORPE presented petitions from Aabbfo
in Lincoln, and two other places, in favour of tome protcr'
tive measure upon Corn.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. W. SMITH presented petitions from a certal'o
number of Catholic inhabitants of Norwich, praying 10(
the repeal of :111 disabilities on account of religion ; from ej
village called Coesey, in the neighbourhood of Norwich, a's
from the United Associate Presbytery of Glasgow, to t 1
same effect.—Ordered to be printed.
On the motion of Mr. W. SMITH, an Address to the
Throne was ordered for copies of all correspondence Wit'
Foreign Powers and the British Colonies respecting the
Slave Trade, from the Ist of January, 1826, to the pre'
sent time.
Mr. MACQUEEN presented a petition from certain in'
habitants of the county of Bedford, praying for protectioa
to agriculture. This wan the first petition of this descrip'
tion ever signed by 600 shopkeepers. 1
Mr. F. PALMER observed, that the shopkeepers C.,
agricultural towns had found out that they depended uls°'"
the agricultural part of the population for all they had."'
Ordered to be printed.
Simi►ar petitions were
ton,
presented from Rippingale,
Poyo'
prie and Oakingham, by
ted. Mr. HEATHCOTE.—.—OrdeTed tO be
A petition was presented from Grantham, against ant
further concessions to the Catholics.
Mr. HUME had been informed that a considerable
change had taken place in Grantham, in favour of CatheliC
Emancipation.
An Hon. MEMnva (whose name we could not learn)
said, Grantham was as much opposed as any town in the
country to the Catholic.
General PHIPPS expressed his indignation at ;be
language of the Catholic Association respecting the House
of Commons.
The petition was then read, and ordered to be printed.
Sir T. D. ACLAND presented a petition from NeWarl°
in favour of the Catholic Claims.
A similar petition was presented from Horncastle, Is);
Mr. Cuss; from Morley, by Mr. W. Weramonn aryl
from Wolverhampton, by Sir J. Witorrzsr.zir.—Orare'
to be printed.
Mr. FYLER presented a petition from the FriendlY
Societies of Coventry, against the Friendly Societies
Ordered to be referred to tie Select Committee on the 131";
Sir G. NOEL presenteda petition from Owners 611'

9CCUpiers
at the pro
I *ye.

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intended
►_Trade to
L foreign ma
;tic); Mak
believed it
by Way 0:
ti oration.
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in naming
Act would
i„ntro(luce
Hon. Men:
declined cr

LE
in Dorsett,
dered to be
Sir M.
Catholics
ddesley,
ripation.
Mr. 1-1
todents C
4Pon the s
Lord 1
Catholics
,Catholic (

Mr. C.
douse goi
On the
Mr. LE
itetions to
Committee
the memo!

• -te•
be pro,
Ins t Nal t°

a the North
against the
an accol
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nd a aiavw
tried.
leaday tee to
he Hoag

tioas 3;8:llt
klitley, I.'

ei
n favour

a from 1)"`'

g a petitil
e
ary• a, ri
dings in t'
rn the gat':
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offered tv.
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Ling out
which 10'
ling the tir:
1, for cerrr
came null!!
:cclesiastioj
.here, and '
oners 01)1'
future, t 4,
sect W
jurisdictidj
he }leveret°
:o become '1
rhich

ition.
ad said tbst
se of dealing
all the per
I to estima°
arties
• el
r he
I farmer
ur Honour!
I, where tbe

Mr. LAmfd,
tnd ordere°

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rom Aslibft
l°me prottc

d.
n a certiO
praying f°r
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torwichy
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dress to the
ndence Iv°
ipecting the
to the pre

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r protectloa
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?keeper' °f
~
fended uP°"
they had.

gale, Pori:
tdered to El.

against an,'

considerable
of Catholic

not lear',l),
town in the

ion at the
the Howe

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re prince ,
rrn Newasl"

7ncastle, b)
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be Friend!!
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