The Sun.
London, England, 1819-12-03 00:00:00

TRAINING, AND SEIZURE OF ARMS BILL,

Viscount SIDMOUTH rose and observed,.that on
the present occasion, and after what he had stated
on a former evening on the bll hject, he did not feel
it necessary to occupy their Lord.t,ips' time, by
entering into any detailed statement of the nature
and provisions of those Bills. There were, he ob-
served, to be found in the Act passed in the 52d
year of his Majesty, when some parts of the Noftli
were in a state of agitation, provisions nearly si-
milar to that of the measure now proposed, and
in some respects that Act even went farther; this
particularly riletred tip the Bill 'authorizing rite
seizure of arms. He begged leave to state, that
whilst he considertd the information conveyed by
the papers already before Parliament as forming
ample grounds for these measures, he was induced
still more earnes'ly to press their speedy coml.
aeratton, in consequence of most important in-
formation which hail been received within the
last three days, and of which he would then say,
that the process of training was cat ried On to
most alarming and increased extent in various
quarters, as well as of the promotion of arms,
and such as actually convinced him that the speedy
adoltiou of these measures was more than ever
indispensable to politic safety and private security.
11,-, should therefore now move that the Bills be
read the second time.
Lord EasKstez rose, and in a low tone of voice
Made sow ottservitions respecting the proposed
measures„ in which he seemed to question the
necessity of their proceeding to the extent, deem
ing tbat great measure the existing trise Ridy
be found adetpiate for the purpose; iiur did he
conceive that necessity existed for so speedily
passing them. He did not think that the Papers
hetore the. House laid a sufficient ground for the
adoption of such nicastores, and commented upon
vet Ain provisions in die Bill which he thougot of
sit objectionable Hahne. Adverthig more parti-
cularly to the Bill
,tor authorizing the seizure of
arms, he felt that some or its provisions required
grave and serious consideration, as going to af-
fect an important constitutional r:eht of the sub-
ject, and which he trusted %vivid receive some
Modifications in a (W ,
ore stage.
Lottl LILFORD thought, the greatest part of
what fell front the Noble anti Learned Lowd
:watt matter more proper (or discussion in the
Coirrmittce, than on the present stage of the Bill.
lie contended that the evidence before their
Lordships showed the necessity of even stronger
measures than those proposed; and his Lord-
ship adverted to some information which had
come within his own knowledge, which lie thought
of no small iniportance. Much had been said
against the practice of laying anonynions
formation, but of the necessity sometimes of such
tr upple of procedure he felt convinced. He
was particularly aware of this, with respect to a
certain case in the depositions laid before one of
the Manchester Magistrates, and where he had
such a knowledge of the party as induced him to
place implicit confidence in the statement ; nay,
lie was confident, that if any Noble Lord oppo-
site was equally aware of the circumstances, lie
would have come to the same conclusion. Of the
necessity of the proposed mea3ures, he had nu
doubt, and whatever alteratioos might he made
in a future stage, he trusted care would be taken
to render them t flect•v4l. 1

Lord ErtsittNe spoke in explanation. Referring
principally to what had taken place respecting
the indictments for High Treason in 1794, on
that occasion a vast body of information was laid
beture Pal lirtment , which, in its opinion, nn donbr
justified the steps which were then taken, but
which the rtsolt. :if the judicial investigations
proved rot to have beet well founded.
t The LORD CHANCELLOR olp.erved, that it was
on
his
own views of the circumstances of the
cases which had come before hint, he had deem-
ed it his duty to.prefer these indictments. With
respect to the present measures, .he differed ma•
t erially from his Noble and Learned Friend, who,
however, had argued much more against the
enactments than the principle, concerning them.
lie
was fully aware of the constitutional right ut
the subject. to have arms for his own defence, but
not for any purpose dangerous to the public peace.
He well retnembered what bad plend in the: