The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-04 00:00:00

CONTESTED ELECTIONS.

Mr. W. WYNN rose for the purpose of making
a motion for consolidating the law for the trial of
contested elections.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—He
proposed in lieu of the present recognizances
entered into by parties presenting-petitions, com-
plaining of an illegal election, the recognizances
should be two sureties of 500!. each, or four sureties
of 2501. each, and that the petitioner should in one
day after giving notice of, his petition, leave
with the clerk of the House the names of the
proposed sureties. By the present laws, the
Speaker gave notice of the day appointed for the
trial of contested elections, and it frequently
happened that on the day fixed for the trial, and
after the petitioner had incurred considerable
expellee, the sitting Member declined to defend
his seat; he should therefore propose that the sit-
ting Member should within 14 days after the
presenting of the petition be required to
make his option whether or not he would
defend his seat ; and unless he should sig-
nify his intention, within that period, to ,
abandon or defend his seat; he must be liable to the
expenses. Another object of the Bill which he
mow proposed to bring in was to guard against
collusive petitions : he believed that where a petition
charged treating against the sitting Member, it was
generally alleged that the petitioner had the legal
number of votes. Now it was clear that if the first
part of the charge in the petition were established,
the sitting Member could not defend his seat, and he
having no object to disprove the other part of
the allegations as to the petitioner's having the legal
number of votes, the petitioner, as a matter
of course, took possess Ton of the seat. He
proposed that, in all such cases, ` the parties
having votes at the erection, of which the validity
was contested, should be at liberty to be ad-
tnitted as collateral parties in the suit, even
after the then sitting Member had abandoned the
seat, or was defeated. He also proposed to make
tut- alteration in the numbers composing an
Election Committee, and the mode of striking
them; by the present practice, forty-nine names
were drawn, of ' these thirteen were appointed,
which, with two members nominated by the parties,
made fifteen, which number constituted the Cow-

j mittee. Power was given by the present
law to the House, to strike off upon cause assigned
any of those Members so appeinted, but he thought
the House ought not to be called upon to exercise this
unpleasant duty, and it therefore appeared to him
much better to follow the plan adopted in striking
special Juries ; he should therefore propose that
the number be reduced from fifteen to eleven,
and three times the latter number of Members
'•
should be originally drawn, and that each party
should be at liberty to strike off of that number 11.
It was well known that in many contested Elec-
tions Members of that House enlisted themselves as
parties in the contention, and took upon themselves
the partial management of that business upon
which they ought to determine. With the
most rigid impartiality, the strictest 'honesty, and
• highest sense of honour, many had even been known
to have attended consultations, and set themselves
up as judges, having feelings at the moment
that exceedingly ill befitted them for their situation.
The Hon. Member did not mean to make any ob-
servations as applicable to any particular Member,
but as this was a growing evil, it was time that some
step should be taken, and as there could be no
doubt, that the Members of the House of
Commons were infinitely better informed now than
they were 60 years ago; he had 110 doubt that the
House would feel the force of his observations. •The
Hon. Member concluded by moving for leave to
bring in a Bill to consolidate and amend the Laws
relative to the trial for Contested Elections, or Re-
turns for Members to sit in Parliament.
Mr. CROKER admitted the truth of all the
Hon. Member had said, but from what he had
known to take place in Ireland, he objected to the
office of nomination.
Sir J. MACINTOStI did not consider it ne-.
cessary to abolish the office of nemineeship. He agreed
entirely with the proposed reduction of the Corn-
mittee, as he thought it would materially lessen
delay in their proceedings. Indeed, had he been
bringing forward the measure he should have pro-
posed a larger reduction, though he did not deem it
necessary to offer any amendment on the present oc-
casion in that. respect.
Mr. BANKES entirely concurred in the pro-
priety of abolishing the office of nominee. He was
always anxious to avoid taking that office on him,
the duties were so extremely anomalous arid un-
pleasant. He thought the reduction of the Com=-
mittee to eleven highly useful and convenient ; but
he was clearly of opinion that 100 Members should
be present at the ballot.
Mr. Secretary PEEL thought the object of the
Bill most desirable, and that the House was greatly
indebted to the Right Hon. Gentleman who brought
it forward. He agreed with the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman in the propriety of striking off the nominees,
and of reducing the number from fifteen to eleven.
He thought eleven a better number than fifteen ; but
he had not had much experience in the matter.—
He had thought of the appointment of an assessor to
be agreed upon by both the parties : but he merely
threw out this idea, as he had no strong opinion on
the subject, and was ready to believe that the sug-
gestion might be open to much objection.
S:r G. WARRENDER thought the appointment.
of an assessor would be most desirable. In a
Committee of which he was a Member, they actu-
ally overturned a decision of the Court of Session,
which decision was afterwards confirmed by the
House of Lords.—( Hear, and a laugh.)—He thought
that the suggestion of the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Peel) ought to be attended to.
Mr. CALCRAFT had often served as nominee,
and sometimes found it very necessary to satisfy
those who nominated him. He could not agree
with the Right Hon. Gentleman's suggestion as
to the appointment of an assessor, but he agreed
with his Right Honourable Friend who intro-
duced this measure, that the Chairman ought to be
appointed by the House. •
Dr. PHILLIMORE had served is nominee on

the Committee to which his Hon. Friend (Sir G.
Warrender) had alladed ; and so far from that Com-
mittee having violated the law, he was sure that the
decision of the Committee was founded on the
soundest principles of law. He agreed that nominees
ought to be abolished; and be thought that if a
Committee had the benefit of two expert Counsel,
they would seldom decide wrong.

Sir G. WARRENDER said, the Committee, on
which his Hon. Friend (Dr. Phillimore) bad been
nominee, did overturn a decision of the Court of
Session, which decision having been appealed
against was confirmed by the House of Lords.
Dr. PHILLIMORE really could not allow this
assertion of his Hon. Friend to become public un-
contradicted. The point which the Committee de-
cided did not arise in that case before the House of
Lords.—(Hear, and a laugh.)
Mr. S. RICE contended that the public ought
to be admitted to election committees : they ought
to know what was going on there. When any deci-
sion was come to in that House, the public were
made acquainted not only with the result, but also
with the reasons which influenced that result, and
he could not conceive why such a course would
not be equally beneficial with election committees,
They were frequently liable to error from ignorance,
anti he recollected one instance in which the objec-

tion to the return of a Member appeared- to
be so frivolous that four Members of the Committee
told him he need enter into no defence. He followed

their advice and yet he subsequently found that the
Committee, and even three or four Members also,
voted that he ought to lose his seat.—(A laugh.)—
lie should be glad to hear that the power was
taken away from Election Committ96 of excluding
the public.
After a few words from Sir R. COLBORNE and Mr.
WARBURTON,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said that he had never been but once upon a
Conunit tee, and then he was nominated by an Hon.
Friend of his, with whom he had afterwards the mis-
fortune to differ upon the Committee—(A laugh)—
hut he well recollected that on that Committee they
ruled one point no less than three times, once in one
way, and twice in the reverse, and this was owing
to the ignorance of forms.
Mr. W. NV YNN replied, and leave was given to
bring up the Bill.

ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.--;SLAVES
FROM THE MOREA.

Mr. PEEL said, that in rising, pursuant to the
notice he had given, to move that the House at its
rising should adjourn to Monday, the I4th of April,
he had merely to observe, that although there were
many instances in which a longer adjournment had
taken place, yet, when he adverted to the state of
the public business, he thought it would not be right
that they should adjourn now for a longer period.
He had not forgotten that, the sessions would take
place in the week in which he proposed that the
House should re-assemble; but he did not think
that that fact, though it might prevent the attend-
ance of many. Members, was of sufficient weight to
prevent as many as could attend from applying them-
selves to the despatch of the public business. The
Right Hon. Gentleman then moved-,-" That the
House at its rising, do adjourn to Monday, the 14th
of April."
On the question being put,
Sir R. WILSON said, he felt it to be his duty
not to allow the House to separate without *jog
the Right Hon. Gentleman one or two questions
upon a subject of which they had already heard the
most agitating details; and which affected the inte-
rests of persons who had the strongest claim upon
the justice of the Government, and for whose pro-
tection we had. pledged the national honour. Ac-
cording to positive advices, and which, be had no
doubt, were now become official, several thousand
Greeks, women and children, had been carried off to
Alexandria by the fleet of Ibrahim Pacha, and sold
in the market as slaves. He understood there were
in the
,whole nearly seven thousand thus dragged
from-their. country and their friends, with feelings
aggravated by •the reflection, that this misfortune
happened at the moment when, as it were, the ques-
tion of their future freedom had been set at rest fort

ever. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) had
stated, on a former occasion, that orders were issued
to prevent the removal of any portion of the Greek
population. He would now ask the Right Hon.
Gentleman to say how it could be explained, that,
with orders of this kind to prevent the removal of
the non-combatant population, some of the small
.vessels, of which there were many in a state fit for
service after the battle of Navarin, did not prevent
the commission of this most flagrant and cruel act
of piracy ? The first question he should put to the
Right Hon. Gentleman was, whether there had been
any official advices from the Commanders of our
armaments in the Levant, explaining the reason why
these vessels thus loaded had obtained the freedom
to pass unmolested from the Bay of Navarin ? and,
secondly, whether any measures had been taken,
either with or without the consent of the Allies, to
effect the redemption of those unhappy persons,
who had been thus dragged from their country by
the basest and most execrable piracy ? This repara-
tion was the least that Greece had a right to claim,
not only from England, but from every nation of
Europe that had any pretensions to civilization.=
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. Secretary PEEL begged the Hon. Gentle-
man to recollect he had stated before, that in the
year 1826, previous to the signing of the Treaty of
the 6th of July, and previous to the signing of the
Protocol, it was intimated, indirectly, to his Ma-
jesty's Government, that there existed an intention
to carry away a part of the population of the Morea,
for the purpose of consigning them to slavery in
Egypt. Before, however, any measures were taken
to carry that intention into effect, and before, he
begged to repeat, any treaties existed upon the sub-
ject of the Greeks, his Majesty's Government de-
sired it to be distinctly declared, that they could not
suffer such a proceeding, which must be regarded as
an exercise of the most extreme rights of war; and
that if the intention, was attempted to be carried
into execution, they were determined to resist it by
force. No measure of the kind threatened was then
attempted, and therefore it became unnecessary to
resort to the employment of force. He believed,
however, that the Hon. Gentleman was correctly in-
formed, when he said that some portion of the pepu-
lation of the Morea had been sent into slavery by
Ibrahim, on board of those vessels which escaped
from the Bay of Navarin after the battle. Instruc-
tions had been sent out to the Admiral to prevent.
the removal of any portion of the combined Turkish
and Egyptian fleets, both before and after the time of

the baille, if by that removal they meditated a re-
newal of hostilities against the Greeks; but of
course, if they intended to remove their forces from
the Bay of Nayarit', either to Alexandria or to Con-
stantinople, every facility would have been afforded
them for that purpose. It is unnecessary to say,
that by that removal the forces only were meant, and
not any portion of the Greek population. On the 27th
or 28th December, a part, however, of the fleet, to
the number of 45 sail,including 17 sail, which arrived
in the Port after the battle, set sail for Alexandria,
having on board the disabled, and sick and wounded
soldiers, together with some women and children. What
the number of these captives was he could not pre-
tend to say; and, indeed, the accounts varied so
much, he did not think he ought to attempt to state
anything upon the subject, until they had some
better information. The Hon. Gentleman, how-
ever, said he believed them to be 7,000. He
might, however, state that he had heard, and as he
thought upon very good and even high authority,
that the number did not exceed 600 women and
children. When his Majesty's Government , re-
ceived an account of this escape of the remnant of
the fleet, having on board these captives, they made
a communication to the Admiral, and instituted a
full inquiry into the whole transaction. He might,
indeed, say that the whole subject was now under
the consideration of his Majesty's Government, al-
though, from the present state of that enquiry, he
thought it better to abstain at this moment from any
further explanation. It was, be thought, sufficient
to assure the Hoa. Gentleman that the attention of
his Majesty's Government had been directed to the
subject, although he felt that at the present moment
he could not state the results of their enquiries with-
out prejudice to the public service.
Sir F. BURDETT felt the subject to be most

interesting, not only on account of the sufferers, but
on account of the extent to which it involved the
national honour. Without following the statement
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, or going into any of
the details, he might say, that what the Right Hon.
Gentleman stated to the House must be considered
us very satisfactory to the country, because it would
perceive that the misfortune which the Greeks suf-
fered did not proceed from any want of feeling or
of sympathy on the part of the Government, and
that it had not ceased to take those steps which
were necessary to repair the evil, and retrieve
what we had lost. He thought that the thanks
of the House were due to his Hon. Friend (Sir R.
Wilson), for bringing the subject under the notice
of the House, and that they were doubly due for
the explanations which his questions had afforded
the Right Hon. Gentleman an opportunity of offer-
ing to the country. Be the number of the captives
what it might, he hoped the Government would
not relax in its exertions to procure some remedy
for their misfortunes. He Was slow to suppose
that this evil had happened from the effect of any
lukewarmness shown on their part in support of the
Treaty. That Treaty, he was prepared to maintain,
had originated in a policy as wise as it is honourable
—a policy too, upon which the very existence of
the cguntry may be said to depend. The Honour-
able Baronet concluded by expressing a hope that
there would be no departure from "that line of con-
duct which had been wisely and most honourably
adopted.

Sir R. WILSON begged to know if lie under-
stood the Right Hon. Gentleman right, when he
said there were forty-seven sail of vessels sent by
Ibrahim to Alexandria?

Mr. Secretary HUSKISSON said, he believed
there were, altogether, about forty-five sail. Fifteen
or sixteen of these arrived in the Bay of Navarin
after the battle with the Allied Squadrons, and about
thirty remained i►► the Port. There we►e in all,
about forty-five or forty-seven. lie did not exactly
know what the lion. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett)
meant by the expression, lukewarniness ; but if he
intended it to be inferred that any of these events
proceeded from any expression of lukewarmness on
the part of the Government, or from any thing which
had been said in ,this country upon the Battle of
Navarin, he would beg the lion. Baronet to call to
his recollection, that this escape of the vessels hap-
pened on the 27th or 28th of December, and that
therefore, even supposing such an effect could have
been produced, any impression produced by the battle
in England was totally unknown.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, it was well
known to all Europe, that a project was for a long
time entertained by the Grand Turk and the Pacha
of Egypt, to remove the Christian population from
the Morea, and reople it with Arabs. He knew
that such an intention was made known, not only at
the conferences at St. Petersburgh, but even as early
as the year 1825, and that nothing but the threat
that ►such a proceeding must be regarded as one
which must be visited with the most extreme rigour
of hostility against all the parties, prevented
the fulfilment of that intention, and saved us
from seeing the Christian population of Greece
carried ►nto slavery, and a barbarous predatory
horde of Arabs planted as Colonists in the
very centre of Europe. The scheme now carried
into execution by Ibrahim seemed to him to be a
kind of remnant of that most atrociouspreject which
was then in contemplation; and he contended that,
not only on account of the faith which we have
pledged to the Greeks, but still further on account of
the audacious insult offered by Ibrahim Pacha to this
and all other European States, in the removal of the
Greek captives after it lied been notified to him that
such an act must call down the interference of force,
our honour was doubly engaged to the demand of
the utmost and severest reparation. First by the
faith which we pledged to Greece, and next for the vin-

'

dication Of our dignity, insulted as it had been so openly
by this atrocious barbarian, he thought we were
bound to demand immediate satisfaction.. He must,
indeed, suppose that his Majesty's Government were
engaged in considering the means of repairing the
evil to Greece, for he could not conceive that the
circumstances under which the outrage was perpe-
trated left this country the power either to protest
or disclaim. Our duty was plain to every man; it
was to revenge or to repair. With respect to the
other great questions which lay as it were in the
neighbourhood, of the wrong done to Greece, it was
his intention to abstain from saying any thing at
present. He and, others preserved that silence as
much from a sense of the awful importance of the
subject as from a conviction that such matters, in
their very nature, required considerable deliberation,
and therefore involved a great deal of delay. How
long it was possible for him to adhere to this state
of silence, which might perchance be liable to mis-
construction, -he could not, at that moment, deter-
mine. But it seemed to him a little extraordinary,
that while every Power of importance in Europe,
had made public the principles upon which it acted,
and caused its policy to be made known, the
Government of this country made no declara-
tion of its sentiments. The French Govern-
ment, at the very commencement of the Ses-
sion, in the political exposition of M. Peyronnet, left
nothing to be desired, as to the course of policy they
intended to pursue. The Russian Government, in
a way not exactly official, but at the same time, in
a way which every one knows to be substantially of-
ficial, have detailed all the reasons arid motives of
that system of policy which they are now beginning
to carry into execution. Even the Turkish Go-
vernment, in a Hatti-Scheriff, had shown riot the
course of its policy, for it had been disgraceful to
call it by such a name, but that course of atrocious
fraud, and falsehood, and delusion, which it had
practised upon every State of Europe, and which
it had at last the shameless audacity to avow in the
face of its most powerful enemies. He could not
but say, that if he heard no intention intimated of
putting the House in possession of the ulterior
measures contemplated by his Majesty's Govern-
ment, in order, to carry into execution that just,
lawful, and wise Treaty, he should, although his
situation might be a painful one, call for some ex-
planation, not, he begged it to be observed, with
any desire of requiring the House to pass judgment
on the policy which might have been pursued, but
to give an occasion to those who were interested in
the honour and character of the country to state the
sentiments which they entertained upon this question,
and at the same time to afford to his Majesty's Go-
vernment all opportunity of laying open the prin-
ciples on which they acted, and which, in his
opinion, ought long since to have been made public.
Mr. BRIGHT said, that he was anxious for ex-
planation from Government. He trusted that the
House would not be led away by their feelings, and
that Government would look back, and be able to
lay before Parliament such an account of their con-
duct as would satisfy their own consciences, and jus-
tify them in the eyes of the country. He adverted
to the late Treaty of London, the policy of which,
in his opinion, was not such as deserved general and
decided approbation ; and, in conclusion, he be-
sought Government to beware how, by indiscreet
treaties, it precipitated this country into a war Isith
other countries, the extent and • duration of which
could nut be easily calculated.

Mr. Secretary PEEL observed, that the House, he
was sure, would agreein opinion with him, that it
would be extremely improper in him to enter into a
detailed explanation, on the part of Government, of
the several points adverted to in the speech of the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir J. Macintosh); at the
same time, while he felt the propriety of abstaining
from a formal declaration of the intentions of Go-
vernment, he wished to protect himself from the con-
struction which the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir J.
Macintosh) had put upon the few words which bad
fallen from him on a former occasion, respecting the
removal of the Greeks from the Morea. The Right
Hon. Gent. seemed disposed to consider that when
he (Mr. Peel) spoke of inquiry having been insti-
tuted, he had intimated that the object of that in-
quiry was the restoration of the captives who had
been removed. Now he disclaimed the construction
which the Right Hon. Gentleman had put upon his
language, as the inquiry of which he spoke was only
directed to the circumstances under which that re-
moval had taken place, and did not contain such a
declaration for -its object as the Right Honour-
able Gentleman imputed to Government. Never-
theless he would say, that if the orders of Go-
vernment had been strictly acted upon, the removal
from the Morea would not have taken place. In
saying this, however, he wished that it might be
distinctly understood he did not mean to convey any
imputation of blame on our forces engaged in the
Mediterranean. The truth was, that after the battle
of ;N:avarin our naval force in the Mediterranean be-
came greatly impaired; many of our vessels were sent
to undergo necessary repairs, and they could not enter
upon the blockade, as was accordant with the wishes of
Government, but which duty, from their disabled state,
could not be expected to be undertaken. The vessels
which reached Alexandria consisted of four frigates,
18 brigs, eight corvettes, and 15 transports. Re•
specting those who were removed, accounts had
reached the Government differing from the informa-
tion which the Right Hon. Gentleman appeared to
have received. From the account which reached
Government, it appeared that two thousand con-
sisted of sick and wounded, and that six hundred
were sold as slaves. Forty-eight hours after the
information of their being removed as slaves was
received, an inquiry was set on foot as to the cir-
cumstances attendant on their removal; but as many
of those persons were probably afterwards re-sold as
slaves, it was not a very practicable course to insti-
tute an inquiry for the restoration of those slaves
who, by being re-sold, may have become the pro-
perty of individuals. If these .ships, with the cap-
tives on board had, on their passage hem Nayarit! to
Alexandria, been captured at sea, the case would
have been very different from what it now was ; but
as these persons had been landed, and, as he had
stated, probably re-sold, it was difficult, the House
must perceive, for Government to become account.:
able for those who may since have become indivi-
dual property.
Sir JOSEPH YORKE bore testimony to the
disabled state of our vessels • after the battle of Na-
varin ; and was happy to hear that whatever may-
have been the causes which led to the removal of

the Greeks from the Morea, that no blame or neg-
ligence whatsoever was imputable to our Officers
engaged in the gallant action of Nayarit'.
The question of Adjournment to Monday, the 11th
of April, was then put and carried.

ARREST FOR DEBT 'IN SCOTLAND.
On the motion of Mr. HUME, a series of Re-
turns was ordered to be laid before the House, re-
lating to the extent of arrest and imprisonment for
debt in Scotland, during the last five years.

Elections of Members returned to serve in Polio'
ment.—Read a first time, and ordered to be read o
second time on Monday the 14th of April, and to
be printed.

SALMON FISHERIES' BILL.
Mr. HOME DRUMMOND having, in reply to
a question from Mr. Fergusson, stated that it was
his intention to propose in the Committee, that the
" dose time" should begin on the Ist of September,
and end on the Ist of February, the Salmon Fishe•
ries' Regulation (Scotland) Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed on the 2d of May,