The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-19 00:00:00

DROPPED ORDERS.

The dropped notices of motion and the dropped orders
of the day were then re-appointed.
POOR-LAWS.

Mr. P. BORTIIWICIC, in answer to a question from
Mr. Pechell, stated that if the Government did not pro-
ceed with the Poor-law Amendment Bill that they had
introduced, he should go on with his.
COUNTY COURTS BILL (DUCHY OF LAN-

CASTER).
On the motion of Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET,
the further consideration of this Bill was postponed for
a fortnight.
VESTRIES IN CHURCHES BILL.

On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill,
Mr. HUME stated that it was important that the House
should know the nature of the Bill, because, unless made
acquainted with it, they ought at once to reject the
measure. If the Bill passed, the ordinary business of the
church would be prevented from taking place in it.
The best way to avoid the repetition of such scenes was
to do away with church-rates altogether.—(Cheers.) As
long as the Dissenters were called on to pay church-
rates they had a right to attend these meetings and to
vote. If they would excuse Dissenters from church-rates
he would undertake to say there would be no recurrence
of these scenes. He would support a Bill to keep them
from attending vestry meetings under such circumstances.
Churches had originally been built for the public; but of
late years attempts had been made to turn them into pri-
vate property, and treat them as if the public had no in-
terest in them. As long as every parishioner was bound
to maintain the church, and to pay rates, each person
in the parish who was called on to pay had a right to
give a voice for or against the rate. He thought the
Bill ought not to pass, and therefore he should move that
it be committed that day six months.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN was glad that the Hon.
Member for Montrose had in his observations confined
himself to discussing the principle of the Bill. It was
on the principle that he was anxious to take the divi-
sion. He would not enter into particulars, but the
scenes v.hich had taken place in vestries were matter of
public notoriety. Those Hon. Members who were of
opinion that it was better not to disturb the present ar-
rangement would vote against the Bill. Those who were
Jf opinion that those evils would be remedied by it would
vote in its favour. He did not obstinately adhere to the
details of the measure, but he wished to take a vote upon
its principle.
Mr. BECKETT said that in the towns he represented
there was a strong feeling in favour of the measure.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that, since the last dis-
cussion, he had had an opportunity of considering the
subject. To the principlelof the Bill he was decidedly
friendly, but he thought some of the details might be
advantageously altered. He should, therefore, consi-
dering the scandal that arose from these meetings, sup-
port the going into Committee.
Captain PECIIELL hoped the Hon. Member for
Montrose would persist in his opposition. Many clergy-
men considered that the church was the best place for
holding these meetings.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that the Ecclesiastical
Courts Bill was advocated as necessary to prevent brawl-
ing in churches, aed now they wanted a Bill to make the
offence impossible. It was clear, then, that both the
Bills were not necessary. If they consented to go into
Committee pro forma fir the amendments of the Right
Hon. Secretary, he belie ,e 4 it would be the same
with this measure as with the Masters and Servants
Bill ; it would come out of Committee ten
thousand times worse than it went in. The protec-
tion of the Right Hon. Baronet to a measure was like
the effect of the upas tree—it seemed to poison all it
reached.--(Bear, hear, and laughter.) Ho advised the
Hon. Member to stick by his own measure if he thought
it a good one.

Nfr. ESC6TT strongly
After a few worsf opposed the measure.
Lord PALMERSTrg t
Mhoru.
gRhEtD
theH EBtiklil)
miCa°deßKaEn 'al-
teration in a practice
of long
standing, which was con-
venient and congenial to the feelings of the people. No
grounds stated for the adoption of the
measure, and the Government had better let the Bill
drop, and bring in another, if
necessary, in concert with
the Law Officers of the Crown.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL thought the disorders
and desecration of the Church occasioned y
such meetings a sufficient ground for the measure,holdillig
was not prepared, however, to support all the details eof
the Bill.
Mr. E. DENISON opposed the Bill.
Mr. MART said that, according to the common law,
the church was the proper place of meeting. He
was convinced the reasoning of the measure was on that
side of the House, and he trusted from that reasoning
the House would not be induced to pass the Bill.
Captain ROUS would vote against the Bill, consider-
ing it an insult to every rate-payer.

Mr. WAKLEY opposed the Bill. All were asking
what was the object of the Bill. It was said that
they ought not to contaminate the church by having
vestry meetings held in it. Contaminate ! Why, if any
building was contaminated, it was that House.—(Cheers.)
The proceedings which had taken place in it lately ren-
dered it dangerous for any man to enter it.—(Cheers.)
`_Mr. W. 0. STANLEY did not believe that the Bill
was requisite or necessary.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the
House divided, when there appeared—
For going into Committee B7
Against it 73
Majority for going into Committee —l4
On our admission into the gallery, we found
Mr. HUME on his legs moving the adjournment of
the House. There never was any measure more revo-
lutionary with respect to the Church than this, and as
long as the people were called upon to pay church-rates
the House was not justified in passing a Bill like the
present. He thought the House ought not to proceed
with any other measure until Ministers had stated
their reasons for bringing in this Bill. Instead of taking
the present means for preventing brawling in the church,
let the Government adopt the only means for doing so,
namely, that of putting an end to church-rates.—
(Cheers.) The lion. Gentleman concluded by moving
the adjournment of the House.
Mr. ROEBUCK said it was strange, that those who
professed to feel such awe on entering a church should
be extremely anxious to import Church matters
into the Magpie and Stump, or the Red Lion.
—(A laugh.) Many persons, who would not, on
any account commit a crime in a church might easily
and readily fall into the commission of one in a tap-
room.—(Hear, hear.) He looked upon the Bill,
therefore, as one calculated rather to entrap people
into thecommission of offences rather than the avoidance
of them. In his opinion ecclesiastical matters ought to
be discussed within the Church walls, and so sacred
did he hold a place of worship to be that nothing which
occurred within it could lower or degrade either the
place itself or the holy doctrines inculcated in it.
Sir R. PEEL said, having been asked if it was his inten-
tion to hasten the Bill through the House, he begged to
say he had no such intention, and he had never
shown such. Should the Bill get into Committee there
were clauses in it which he thought ought to be omitted,
and others which ought to be modified.—(Hear.) His
Hon. Friend (Mr. O'Brien) was not responsible for the
origin of this Bill. In the year 1838 the principle of
the Bill had been affirmed by the House, and this
Bill was in perfect accordance with the views then
expressed. All his Hon. Friend sought now was,
to Pl-4 into Committee, in order that certain
amendments might be introduced when the Bill
as altered, would be printed, and time would be
given to Hon. Members to consider the measure as it
would then stand. Surely there was nothing hasty or
very unreasonable in Ois.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SHEIL wanted to know the reason why the Bill
was not to extend to Ireland. As to brawling and
tumult, the cause of these evils—where they did
exist, was to be found in the subject of discussion, and
till they put church-rates, and all other matters con-
nected with the Church, upon a proper footing, they
were only changing the field of battle from the Church
to the Mitre and Crown ; and how far better would it
be to get rid of the war itself ?—(Hear, bear.)
Mr. WATSON called upon the Hon. Member for
Montrose (Mr. Hume) to persevere in his amendment.
Such a Bill as the present ought to have been brought
in by the Government, or ought never to have
been brought in at all.—(Hear.) As to the violent pro-
ceedings which had been stated to have taken place,
in Shoreditch and other churches, he begged to
say that the law had provided a remedy, and they
would soon probably have a further remedy in the
Ecclesiastical Courts Bill—(Hear, hear)—which pro-
mised to take especial care both of soul and body.—
(Laughter.) It was said the Bill was to consider the
desecration of the church. What cant ! What hypo-
crisy I Why, was not the noblest church of the land
desecrated every hour of every day by the payment of a
paltry two-pence by every Christian who wished to see
its glories and its wonders ?—(Loud cheers.)

(LEFT SPEAKING.)

HOP INTELLIGENCE.

MA YFIELD.—We have more fly, but the plant is look-
ing well.

AYLESFORD.—The bine has greatly improved since
last week.

CRANBROOK.—The bines look well ; there is, how-
ever, a good deal of fly.
EGERTON.—The bine growing, and not much fly.
HEADCORN.—Bine growing, but a good deal of fly.
HOLLINGBOURN.—The plant here is looking well.
HORECSIONDEN.—Not much fly, and the bine look-
ing well. •
HARDEN.—Very little fly, but the drought is doing
some little harm here.

STArLElluasT.—The quantity of fly varies a good
deal here in different gardens; on the whole it is in fair
condition.

TENTERDEN.—The bine continues to progress, and
there is no fly.
TROSLEY.—The bine grows, and there is no quantity
of fly, except in places where they are sheltered.
PEHBURY.—The bine is looking healthier and grow-
ing fast, has few lice, and the fly has left us.
GOUDIIIIRST.—The plants in this district are in an ex-
ceedingly doubtful state; on the one hand the bine is
growing well, but, en the other, there is a good deal of
fly and lice. If anything, it has rather decreased, taking
an average of the grounds during the past week.
MAIDSTONE, JUNE 17.—The hops in this district
have been doing well up to near the end of last week;
now many gardens begin to show the want of rain, and
it was generally thought there would be plenty of bine
this year, b.it if there is not rain very soon most places
will be very short of bine, the young hops in particular.
The same remark applies to the Weald of Kent, but
there they seem to suffer more from the want of rain.
BRENCULEY, JUNE 17.—Some of our hop grounds are
tolerably clear, while others are very full of fly and lice.
The bine is certainly in a fluctuating state at present.
EAST FARLEIGH, JUNE 17.—The Goldings are rather
slack of bine for this time of year, but the weather of the
last fortnight has been very favourable for them, and they
have not suffered at all from vermin.

ALLINGTON, JUNE 17.—The bine is very clean, and
generally looks well.
IGHTUAM, JUNE 16.—The hope bine has grown very
rapidly within the last week. We are now quite free
from vermin, and look for a good crop.

THORWALDSEN'S STATUE OF LORD BYRON.--It will
be recollected that a statement appeared in the papers a
few days since, to the effect that a statue of Lord Byron,
executed by Thorwaldsen, imported into this country
some years since, and deposited in the King's warehouse
for security, and which had never been removed by the
parties, had been allowed to go to decay, or at all events
was not forthcoming, and that the executors, having ap-
plied for it, and not having received a satisfactory re-
ply, intended to proceed against the Customs' authori-
ties in London for the same, which was valued at
30,000/. The facts of the case are that the statue in
question was imported about ten years in two cases, one
of them a very large one, containing, it is supposed, the
figure in a sitting posture, and were deposited in one of
the warehouses at the London Docks, and not in the
King's warehouse, in Thames-street, as has been erro-
neously stated. Very shortly after these cases were
brought over to this country, the proper duties were pail
upon the same, it being the intention of the sculptor to
present the figure to the authorities of Westminster
Abbey, to be placed there as a national monument of the
poet. It was subsequently found, however, that the
Dean refused to permit the statue of the author of Don
Juan to be deposited in that hallowed place. The con-
sequence has been that the statue was never removed
from the docks, and has remained ever since where it
was originally deposited. The statement, therefore,
about the packages being lost or destroyed is a fabrica-
tion, and, no doubt, they will be delivered up by the Com-
missioners of Customs (or, more properly speaking, by
the London Dock Company, for immediately the proper
duties are paid upon packages warehoused at the docks,
they are delivered out of charge of the Customs into the
hands of the Company, until their dock charges, &c.,
are paid) on satisfactory proof from the executors of
their right to claim the same. It is believed that the
executors are not aware of the place where the pack-
ages were originally or are at present housed, but no
doubt they will shortly receive a notification to that effect.
The security and identity of the packages has been dis-
covered, in Consequence of an inquiry having been set on
foot by the Customs Board into the matter. It may be
considered as certain that the statue is in a state of per-
fect preservation, as the case in which it is deposited is
nearly two inches in thickness, and has never been dis-
turbed since it was first brought to this country.—Morn-
big Advertiser.
Loss AND RECOVERY OF 2,0001.—0 n Saturday a
commercial gentleman, just arrived from Liverpool, put
up at the Southampton Railway Hotel, Nine Elms,
preparatory to his leaving town for Southampton; but
suddenly remembering that he had some trifling
business to transact in Mark-lane, City, he di-
rected the waiter to call a cab, and he immedi-
ately proceeded thereto. On arriving at his destina-
tion, however, to his great consternation and dis-
may, he discovered that his pocket-book, in which he
had deposited bank-notes to the amount of about
2,000/, was missing. He instantly resumed his seat
in the cab, and having promised the cabman an addi-
tional fee, he was driven back with all speed towards
the hotel ; but, as if " all these things were against
him," the horse twice fell in his progress to
Nine Elms, and when the anxious gentleman arrived,
his agitation was so great that some seconds had
elapsed before Mr. Howse, the proprietor, could under-
stand what he really meant. Mr. Howse rang for the
waiter, Thomas Wenham (but who is better known
by the cognomen of Little Thomas), who, upon
understanding what was wanted, to the infinite
joy of the gentleman, immediately produced the
pocket-book, with the notes (scarcely any of the
numbers of which, he acknowledged, were known
to him), and other property perfectly correct ; and
stated that, about three-quarters of an hour after the
gentleman had left the coffee-room, he found the pocket-
book underneath the table at which the gentleman had
been sitting, although several persons had been there
during that time. The now overjoyed gentleman pre-
sented the waiter with a 51. note, and an order upon his
tailor for a full suit of clothes, promising also to do
something more for him.
We regret to say that Mr. Monypenny, W.S.,
died at his house, Moray-place, on Saturday last. Mr.
Monypenny was brother of Lord Pitmilly, and long
known in this city as one of the most upright and emi-
nent members of his profession.—Cakdoniun Mercury.
THE IRON TRADE.—In consequence of the strike,
iron is said to have risen from 3s. 6d. to 4s. per ton
above last week's prices, The following are the nominal
quotations:—Pigs,3l. 10s. to 3/. 125.; bars, C 1.61. 10s. to
71. ; rods, 71. 10s. to 81. ; sheets, &c., 101. to 10/. 10s,—
Glasgow Herald.