The Sun.
London, England, 1828-02-12 00:00:00

WAYS AND MEANS.

Mr. DAWSON brought up a bill, voting the snot of
12,000,0001., to be raised by Exchequer Bills, for tht,
service of the current year.—The bill was read a first time,
and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.
ROMAN CATHOLIC LAND TAX RELIEF BILL.
On the motion of Mr. GEORGE BANKES, the se-
cond reading of the Roman Catholic Land-Tux Relief
Bill was postponed until Monday next, in the absence of
the Solicitor-General, who is indisposed.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.—ESTIMATES.

Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said that before he moved
that the House should resolve itself into a Committee of
Supply, he begged to say that he only intended to ask for a
vote for the wages and victuals of seamen for six months,
and not for twelve months, as at first proposed. This was
with a view that the Finance Committee might
have an opportunity of making any reductions which
they thought fit. This was the course pursued in 1817,
when the Finance Committee was appointed, and it then
seemed to meet the universal approbation of the House.
On the motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair,

. Mr. MABERLY said that he could not place the same
confidence in the present Administration, with respect
to financial reduction, as he did in the late Admini-
stration. He did not believe that the Right Honourable
Gentleman now at the head of his Majesty's Government
in this House, was actuated by the same spirit in proposing
the Finance Committee that the late Minister would have
been. This ho judged from the circumstance, that as long
as the Right Honourable Gentleman had been at
the head of his Majesty's Government, no such
Financial Committee had been proposed. Before
the Government came down to ask for a vote of
credit, they might at-least have waited until the House
was in possession of the names of the members who were
to compose the Finance Committee, which the Right Hon.
Gent. had unaccountably postponed moving for from Tuesday
till Friday. He did not see that there was any immediate
necessity fur granting the supplies, and thought three
months would be quite sufficient to vote supplies for.
Mr. Secretary PEEL—I am not quite sure that the
Hon. Member fully understands the nature of the estimate
which it is proposed by my Hon. and Gallant Friend to
submit to the consideration of Hon. Members when the
House shall have gone into Committee. The proposed
grant is founded on the number of seamen which it has
been thought necessary to keep up for the public service of
the current year. I trust the Hon. Member will concede
to me that the number of men it may appear necessary to
provide for the naval service of the year, is a point for the
consideration of his Majesty's Ministers. My Hon. and
Gallant Friend only intends to propose a vote for the wages
and victuals of 30,000 seamen, the number thought ne-
cessary by Government. so other species of expenditure
is comprehended in the estimate, and this is not an estimate
for the entire year, but merey for six months, in order to
meet those unavoidable expenses that must, in part at least,
be incurred in the particular branch of the public service
in question previous to the Finance Committee, which it is
immediately intended to appoint coming into operation.
This the Hun. Member will, probably, on more mature
consideration, be disposed to admit, is following the pre-
cedent created by the practice of the House in 1817, pretty
closely. The Hon. Member has alleged as one of his mo-
tives for refusing me his confidence, that no Committee of
Finance was appointed by his Majesty's Ministers while I
formed one of the Government. Now, the Hon. Mena-
_ .

bet should recollect that I had the honour to hold a situa-
tion in the Government of 1817, when the Finance Com-
mittee in question was nominated.
Mr. MABERLY—I alluded to the period that has
elapsed subsequent to 1817.
Mr. Secretary PEEL in continuation—Sir, I have only
mentioned the circumstance of my connection with the
Administration of that day, in order to prove that I can-
not fairly be supposed to have been in principle adverse to
the appointment of a :Finance Committee, for I was a
member of that Government when such a Committee was
last nominated. I can now assure the Hon. Member and
the House that the appointment of a Committee of Finance
was mooted in the Administration of Lord Liverpool, and
my belief is, that had that Noble Person remained for a
longer period at the head of the Cabinet, the appointment
of a Finance Committee would have been proposed. At
least this I can say, that I cannot recollect having heard
any objection started by the Noble Lord to the proposition,
which I believe would have been brought forward. Cer-
tainly, Sir, I had fixed Tuesday as the day when I in-
tended to propose the appointment of a Finance Commit-
tee, but I was subsequently induced to postpone my inten-
tion till a later (though not much later) day; partly be-
cause other notices of motions had precedence, and in part
because I was not sure that I should have been able, on
the day first appointed, to avail myself of the assistance of
my Right Hou. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
who, I feared, might not then have taken his seat after his
re-election. These, I can assure the House, were the only
reasons that influenced me in the postponement of my no-
tice from Tuesday to Friday ; and I now promise to come
forward with toy motion on Friday, at the earliest hour
that the proceedings of the House will admit, and which
hour, I trust, will be an earlier one than on other days it
might be possible to take advantage of, in consequence of
the pressure of other business. If it had not been for the
absence of so many Members of the Government, I can
assure the Hon. Gentleman that the nomination of the
Fi-
nance Committee would have preceded the vote for the
pay and victualling of the seamen. After this explana-
tion I trust the House will see no reason against going
into Committee for the purpose of considering a grant
which it is only proposed to extend over six months, and
without which the public service would unavoidably suffer.
Sir J. SEBRIGHT hoped his Majesty's Government
would enter upon the question connected with the revenue
and expenditure of the country in the manner that its para-
mount importance required. With respect to the question
then before the House, lie should be disposed to prefer a
grant for three months pay and victualling of the seamen
to one for six months. It was his anxious wish to see his
Majesty's Government adopt a line of conduct such as
might justify him in giving them his support. He should
conclude by asking his Hon. and Gallant Friend what in-
convenience could arise limn substituting in the grant, a
term of three for one of six months?

Mr. D. W. HARVEY observed, that there could not
he two opinions on the subject of the necessity of having a
firm and permanent Administration. It was clear that
Mr. Canning was quite willing to appoint a Finance Com-
mittee—not a nominal, but a useful and really effective
Committee, and it remained to be seen, in what manner
his successors, who now constituted the Cabinet, intended
to act. He should like to know, whether the Adrainistra-
hail that had lately been superseded, almost without having
been allowed to come into operation, and whose Opposition
of
Polley professions as far as had enabled the public pp
to judge
their actions--he should very much like to know, whe-
ther, up to
November last, that Administration had made
such progress in an investigation of our income and expendi-
ture, as to facilitate the formation 6 of a Finance Committee at
that period. He would take it for granted, that the late
Ministry (supposing it to have inquired into the subject at all)
must have looked into the expenditure of the country. In
doing so) it would have cast an eye on our estimates, and
could not possibly
haveoverlooked so important a branch
of them as those connected with the naval service, which
might
he taken as constituting about a third of the entire.
Supposing the members of the late Government to hare
proceeded in this manner, it would be satisfactory to the
country to know whether they had matured a plan of eco-
nomy to be submitted to the consideration of a Committee
of Finance in November last. Conceding, as he was
willing
to do, that the Committee now to be appointed would set
about its task with all the sincerity andsearnestness possible
he hoped for important, an i might he add, not very dis-
tant consequences from their labours. It was not his in-
tention to offer any opposition to the proposed grant.
Sir G. COCKBIJRN could not say what had been the
intention of the late Right Hon. Gentleman at the head

of his Majesty's Government with respect to the period for
the appointment of a Finance Committee, or the particular
nature of the reductions proposed by him to be introduced
into our expenditure. His opinion on both these matter,
in all likelihood would have very much depended on cir-
cumstances. This he knew, that Mr. Canning contem-
plated some reductions in the naval service, but after a
cause arose for the interference of our fleets in the Medi-
terranean, the Right Hon. Gentleman had been induced tri
change his mind. No one could say that, in the present
posture of affairs, the naval force could be reduced below thi
existing complement of 30,000 men. But, although the
force was the same, the money that was asked for the
maintenance of it was less by 150,0001. to 200,0001.
They were, however, rather premature, in debating upon
the Navy Estimates, upon a mere question fur the main-
tenance of seamen. The question was only between three
months and six months; and it must be obvious to the
Hon. Member, that if at the end of three months, the
House, of its own motion, or at the instigation of the Fi-
nance Committee, should resolve upon a reduction of force,
it would not be practicable to 'effect it at once. Ship:
x. ere at present all over the world, far and near, and they
had, indeed, allowed the time to run so close that the.,
could no longer do without the money.
Mr. HITME said, that the charges of the country were
going on, year after year, increasing ; and that he would
not consent to vote a single shilling until the estimates for
the year were regularly before the House. He did not ob-
ject to the present Ministry; nor would he oppose them,
while they took a course likely to be beneficial to the
country, which he hoped they would find themselves com-
pelled to do : but he did insist that it was criminal care-
le,,sness to grant them any vote until they declared what
the expenditure of the whole year would be likely to require.
The Right Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Peel) told the
House that it was the province of the Sovereign to deter-
mine
what the number of men was, wanted for the defence
of the country.

Mr. PEEL said, across the House—" The part of the
Government to recommend."

Mr. HUME--It might be the part of the Sovereign to
recommend, or propose; but it was for the House to decide
whether that recommendation should be acquiesced in ; and
he, for one, was certainly disposed not to acquiesce in it
until the whole expence was before the House. Let the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Peel) explain, as it
was the custom for the leaders of the Administration in
that House to do ; but until full accounts were produced,
he would resist the going into a Committee.
The gallery was then cleared for a division. None, how-
ever, took place, and on our return we found the House
in a