The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-26 00:00:00

every lawful means to obtain a repeal of the union.—
(Hear, hear.) He had lately heard the construction
of the law with respect to public meetings
argued most ingeniously by lawyers, but
the construction put upon the law was to
little purpose if the Government had a large force at
its command. The Government might take the
opinion of their law-officers, but the real interpreter
they would refer to would be the field-marshal com-
manding the troops. The Government when it
wished to oppress the people, could easily stretch
the law to effect that oppression. The only question
they considered, when they wished to practice such
oppression was, whether they had sufficient face to
enable them to do so; and the Commander-in-Chief
was the officer they consulted. Nothing could more
clearly show this than a reference to Irish history.
In 1782 the people of Ireland asserted their rights,
and they asserted them with arms in their hands.
Did any Government say they were illegal ? No;
because no Government had the power, and the
people of Ireland then had arms in their
hands. Such was the case of the volunteers.
But the state or things was altered now ;
and they had Arms Bills for the Irish
people instead of the Irish people having arms. - The
Irish journals of that period record that 'an address
had been presented to the House of Commons by the
Lord Lieutenant, stating what had been gained for
Ireland by the volunteers as to the independence of the
Irish Parliament and of the Irish judges. The vo-
lunteers continued to assemble in arms for twelve or
thirteen years, and it was never declared that their
meetings were illegal, or that they were guilty of any
conspiracy. On the contrary, they received the
thanks of Parliament on four different occasions for
the aid they gave in defence of the country-,
and also for that which they gave in aid
of the civil power. In the following year
3,000 troops were withdrawn from Ireland, the
ordinary force being 12,000, and those who remained
were recruits and undisciplined soldieis. The
people were left to their own protection. How
different was the state of things now. The Right
Honourable Baronet in his speech commented
on the nature of the Irish Parliament, and he (Mr.
S. Crawford) admitted that it had become as corrupt
a Parliament as could welt be; "but it-had neverthe-
less during its existence conferred incalculable benefits
upon the Irish people, for it was possible that some-
times the most corrupt bodies could be influenced by
the purest motives towards the people. In conse-
quence of the corruptions of the Parliament, and
the divisions amongst the people; the Irish
nation lost all power, and down to this
day the evil had remained in full force, after the
consequences of the unfortunate rebellion of -1798.
A state of suffering and violence had pervaded that
country ever since, from one cause or another,
but most chiefly from supporting the domi-
nation of a small party, .to the exclusion
of the great majority. He was surprised that no
allusion had been made to the Arms Act, because he
thought a great mass of evil would arise from the opera-
tion of the Bill, but he supposed the reason for this silence
was that the working out of that Act was.found quite
impracticable in the present day. With respect to the
landlord and tenant commission all he should say was
that many persoiiS looked at it with 'great doubt,
because it was imagined there was a desire to
screen the landlords from the effects of the commission.
Now the Govenment, in defending themselves for the
use of military power, said that they were not the
cause of the agitation which had been raised in Ire-
land. He must deny them that apology. There would
a dispositioncotteahhxdoahisi
be no agitation which would be at all dangerous to
t
the 'Government if it were not for their
obstinate refusal to redress the grievances
of Ireland. It was this which caused agita-
ance, and what he maintained was, that. the
Government ought not to be permitted to keep up an
army which would enable them to refuse redress.
There had been a considerable manifestation of pub-
lic feeling in favour of the course which he had felt
it his duty to take on that occasion. On referring to
the votes of the House, he found that petitions
had been presented from thirty-four different
places, calling upon the House to refuse supplies
until the grievances of the people should have been
redressed. The petition which he (Mr. S. Crawford)
had presented that day from the city of Edinburgh
well deserved the attention of the House ;
that petition wan - signed by- 17,000 persons.
In order to show that he was justified
by the feelings of his constituents in taking this
course, he need only, refer to the memorial, which had
been sent to him from the borough of Rochdale.
The Honourable Member then read a memorial
to the effect that the refusal of supplies until the
grievances of the people had beenredressed, was, in the
opinion of the memorialists, a constitutional, just, and
necessary course,and highly' approving ofthe announce-
ment of that course by the Hon. Gentleman. This peti-
tion was signed by 5,500 inhabitants of Roch-
dale, and by 400 electors—a larger number than
had voted for him -at the time of his *re-
turn for that borough. He admitted that
opposition to the Government in the voting of sup-
plies, ought not to be undertaken on light grounds.
The question was, were there sufficient grounds
now to justify such a course ? In his judg.
ment the 'grounds: were amply sufficient.
The liberties of the people were in danger. If
such proceedings as had taken place in Ireland
were permitted to continue,, the power of the
tteiboi exhibited to
dboe
sthwshd restraino indis-
pensablyt the
to 'express their opinions would be suppressed.
liberty of speech; and on this account, among others,
There was
it was necessary to pursue this course. The country
power otuoseseesuroeu
redress.take
Those who maintained that no other power than moral
swuacsh' re-
presentedimn eaani nstolla sste necessarywaPl eae alarming
theirinetnhgll
should be resorted to by the people, and who depre-
cated the use of physical force, were bound
to use every means in their pourer to show that neva}
power was not unavailing lest men should resort to
other means to obtain- redress. ne might possibly be
asked, what would be the effect of this remedy if it
were capable of being carried out. He admitted
that the result would necessarily be, either that the
Minister must redress grievances or resign.
He did not desire to see the Right Ho-
nourable Baronet in that position, if he would
only hold out the smallest hope of redress. He did
not hope that he alone could make any impression on
the House in reference to this question ; all he could
do was, to ask the Right Hon. Baronet to take the
grievances of the country into his serious consideration.
He wished to prevent any supply being voted until
some indications should be given of an intention, on
the part of the Government, to redress the grievances
of the people.. Whether such a course should be
adopted or not, depended upon the other representa-
tives of the people. He had done his duty by pro- 1
posing the course which he had proposed.'
The House would adopt whatever course it might
think proper. He had abstained from making any
mere ad captundum proposition for the mere purpose
of catching a few stray votes. He thought that a
great stand .ought to be made by the representatives
of the country, particularly when the army estimates
should be proposed. The Hon. Member concluded
by formally proposing his motion.
Colonel RAWDON, in seconding the motion, said
that it was not without regret that he presented
himself to the notice of the House. He presented
himself.for the purpose of. entering his protest against
the course which • -it • appeared the Government
was determined to adopt towards ' "Ireland.
The House would *bear in • mind that, during
the course of the Jrish discussion, he had had no op-
portunity of addressing the House. The number of
English Membeis who had addressed the Ileuse-on.
the subject had exceeded that of Irish Members. He
thought the social and political condition of Ireland
was such as to demand inquiry. Let the House
remember what M. de Beaumont, a person uncon-
nected with any English or Irish political party, had
said as to the state of Ireland. (The Hon. and Gal-
lant Officer here read an extract from M. de Beau-
mont's work, in which that gentleman stated that
the condition of the North American Indian as far
as regarded physical comforts, was superior to
that of the Irish peasant—that it was impossible
to find in the world A race of men subject to greater
physical privations than the Irish peasantry, that the
greater portion of the population 'of Ireland was fed
upon potatoes, and that whereas in other countries
beggars found the exception, in Ireland they found
the rule. Surely. when such was the state of the country
inquiry into its condition was imperatively demanded.
He knew it must weary the House to speak on the
subject of Ireland after the long debate that had taken
place on that subject, but the House must recollect
that more English Members had spoken than Irish,
and he hoped therefore the House would allow
him to say a few woras. During—. the,_ whole
discussion in Ireland the temperance movement- had
never once been alluded to.—(Hearrhear.) They
had not had an intelligible answer yet from the
Right Hon. Gentleman as to what course he
intended to pursue with respect to Ireland.
He had held out no hopes of redress for
the wrongs of the people of Ireland. For the pre-
sent the door might be considered shut against the
Irish people. The Ira Members must go back
and tell their constituents that there were no
hopes for the people of Ireland from that House.
He had heard the other evening, with some indigne.
tion, an Hon. and Gallant Member express a wish
that agitation should be put down in that House. He
(Colonel Rawden) said that that House was the place
for agitation—the constitutional and the proper place.
He still clung to the Act of Union, but when he heard
such expressiOns as those he had alluded to, his feelings,
he must say; Began. to waver. If there could be found.
one way more successful than another to increase
agitation, it would be in attempting to suppross the
discussion of Irish grievances in that 4ouse. He'
sincerely believed the time was come at which