The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-22 00:00:00

'near' hiria (Lord Co4tenhain) seemed to hint not
• *were. -least; he did not argue es if he-were
the difficulties- which • *etc in the *ay of this
I'....t4:'zlbeasure. There was no other Measure which gave-lain
e.,::f!.._n'tnneh trouble and labour in preparing and digesting,
!,5111* measure he introduced On the subject. If Were'
one deputatiOn, thnre'Were:oo or 300 if there was
kl,`4 • e.mbireOrial asid remonstrante; there were 800 against
Registry Act. The.Reform' 13.11 itself had riot Met"
so much opposition out Of diks—he did not say in
their. Lordships' HMIS'', Ina out of doers. The same
uenees which • were 'at work •against the Registry Act ,
• Pe• re now at work in Opposition to the-present measure.
•itie entire influence 'of the banded gentry, with their
solicitors and proctors,' was at work .to support their
• 4.6.41' edurts; and to:prevent an efficient measure of re
at'm ' He therefore believed that almost "insuperable'
tiilliculties'vieteoppoSed to the carrying out of the melt:,
,°d-re7---niit- in this hnt in thi.other House of Par-
',..arlient';..iind It was the business of this House not to
' send measure A.° the other Howe Winch there was
ot reasonable prospect of carrying.--(Hear, hear.).
phisY ought, therefore, to take all they could get. But by
••
; Bill they were going to 'create ' thirty: diocesan
•-•.'adges, -who would have 'considerable salaries. The con-
ts• ,eltrerice iias;-.that they 'were throwing obstruction's' in
Infpf further reform, if it Was deemed necessary.
. Aberdare 'thought that they should- accept their
• ;408 Onthe Understanding 'that their removal was not
ilandin the iii:rof -any future reform. ,
The LORD -CHANCELLOR said that,was provided
fee in-the Bill. • •• • • - •
• - Lord BROUGHAM—Then his objection :was.AltO-,
gether removed.. :His principal reason for supporting
I.lle-Bill • was, that 'it did away with the courts of gem-
' 4*irt old exempt S-one of the greutest improvements
which Could. be -made. thought that they were a
scandal in the 1 eceleSiastical systeM.- For this reason
• „llneiPally, but reserving to himself the option of pro-
.' -,itig such ainendinents in COmmitteeas he might be
he Shonld- Vote for the second reading of the
-Lord CAMPBELL said the House had had no intima-
tiOn of the reasons which induced her Majesty's Mi-
'aSe'ra:tti abandon the Bill • ivhich was. introduced last
eession' His Noble and Learned friend who spoke last
tekl-offeted ingenious aglilogy for The present Bill, but
had not' Stated W
that
he as present' 'at the deliberations
',Pt the. Cabinet, or that he had been ehoien as ,the organ
• of •
• • the -Government to communicate uneormatioe to the
-N ere *ere entirely in the dark
/c• tOthhlntitivei 'which. caused the abandonment of the
..
• : last 'session. , -Yet there were, five members of the
(I'rernment 'nest/14 wad atn'ongst 'thim a Noble Duke,
rll6
t• , Was able to emilain, the advantages and disadvan,
•.•diffesof.Any -measure e end-there was the President of'
e Council, himself judge; and also the President 'of
'llthe Board or Cowl?), who, as 1t• magistrate at quarter
lessons, must be well acquainted with the working of
eve courts.; Yet they Irere *ll silent.. , Right Rev..
r4itte---(the Bishop:of ;Londo4 gave no explanation.
~_wilgteVer,.hit 'confirmed the-objections of his Noble and
,'-'earned Friend ZLord Cottenham), saying that he would
''''Llreler the ,13ill-Of last session. 'The Right Rev. Prelate
t.°4-eoncurred in thelteporrof the Commissioners, who
tkteontmended •
the -abolition of the litigious jurisdiction of
e courts. - 1816 a Bill to that effect did pass" the
blouse of Commens and • 'was. rejected in this House
bet„ thelfyible and Learned Lord who'inoved the second
• :s4dine professed' to .anticipate his (Lord Campbell's)
;aPPeet. -However, he •abOrild 'be guilty of the grossest
"t.ollSiStency. 'if lie supported it, because it re-
tarried all..the • litigious •jeriedietion: in respect to
• t`"lttriages and •It continued the necessity of two
Prerogative courts for erich'diocese---.-one in the provinces
• onein London:- The Bill 'of Sir Frederick Pollock
rovided• for theappointment''af' officers .in the countrY,
9r•the-regulatiOn of wills, but it Would have -taken
away the jurisdiction -personal'. 'and testamentary
eases. --(He 'fLord7Camp.htllydid not wish to interfere
.s.!:;jth the authority of the. Church in matters of ortho-
-2./ty or discipline, bat-what had the 'Church to do with
lls and marriages ?. • All questi ,ns relating to mar-
riage resolved theniselvese into the construction of an
• ,'.e▪
t'of . Parliament-to• be determined by the • Queen's
dodges; • and the ecelAiastieal eourts had no- right to
Interfere with them. 'With "respect- to- wills, the Right
eeerend • Prelate- • (the-'l3l,hop :" of -:London) said,
That he 'much .regretted the,. Church had anything
• do with them -; and he wished. as soon as possible,
.:.•vewt it 7shoitlit,bo- relieeetr from them. The Church
Meully.elitimed tO. have cognizance of wills, because it
„ip
Ita in former times Usual for persons 16 leave money to
t. le'• Church 'to-"say say' Masses for their souls ; but now the
<nitztti had its much to do with wills as with policies of
• •..,...441ireanee;-• -His opinionwas-,-that there ought to be only
"
.•s--940.•cOitrt to Control these Matters- for England and
,_lvales, and that should sit London: He was for
but,'ill the con.ti talon of Ideal courts, two,
~otiditiorie were necessary ; first,.ihat there should be
; and; secondly, that there, should be competent
• ruges.- In the diocesan courts there. was neither one
nor' the other:7 ~.-,None of them' had more than the frac-
. oof a case ire the year ; and how could the judges be
• eopetent,whele they were chosen froth persons who had
• 'hnewledge of 'the civil law Ilecould say from
OWn experience that there never was -a etatement in'
eieh the greateat- blunders had, not been committed;exce.ptieg the. 'Metropolitan, courts. Two Beck-
, ''lstical.Comtnissions,- and a Commission of that Howie
•"' real eatiites, hid :condemned these.courti. He was
. -to
i_rrY' that his Noble and Learned Friend. on the Wool-,
lek had not -More fully explained the motives of the
• 110
ternment -abandoning , their own measure of last
Jeer- In. 1835,-?when his-Noble Friend-held edifferent
Position in that Henst, -he enlightened their Lordships
its an elahOrate review of the •btisiness -of the session,
457 the -purpOse •of showing that the Government
tj, that day had- , not carried the measures which
f;tY. -had introduced. Amongst: • other things
t taunted them with not having brought in a measure
f °°a(led;on the report .respeeting ecclesiastical courts
was prepared by Dr; Lush in gt on, • Nolv, in 1842,
het Majesty's Ministers were instructed to inform the
that It measere would be laid before Parliament
• e'ise the jurisdiction" the' ecclesiastical courts. :Bat
!I that year no'Bill was introduced. 'Why was it not ?
at that time there was not' • the Same 'prejudice against
• rite:Measure which had since been raised. -In 1843, her
..1 ,Th'.llesty's Ministers.again intimated that &measure upon
subject would- be. introduced.- • Why was that not
ll)ae-2-. A- Bill Was, introduced in the House of Com--
el, °as in a proper form by the-' Attorney-General, who
ilePosed .abolish• the -litigious jurisdiction of
784 COurts. ;•,That 13i11;'wate supported by Sir Jamei
abam, and no measuireeould btve' received warmer sup-
Prt, in that House.- But be mnst'say diet it was not the
hiult of their Lordships -that-the Bill did not pass, fOr it'
~..tjever reached them. . He.would conclude. his observe-
• :3011in the words of his. Noble and Learned Friend,
~.1,"-11 hi- said.thgit:the ine&iure .which they (the Govern-
erns.,.%) themselves had devised, -prepared; and • brought
..:1,7.-.74rc1-,involving,..as they told- them; the most un--
~17.tant.interests.of the country-4;-4they,•withont -scruple,
re up, at the wish of a section of a party• He (Lord
/bust say there was some mystery hangirig about
et transaction that required. explanatiote•and which,
e hoped his Noble, and Learned-Friend on the. Wool-
Would
plecar -14 p. • •
,6.1,13 e Bishop.of LONDON,deniedthat .had, as at-
,,‘:(''''atea • ti. him by the.. Noble'- and Learned Lord
t ,lit Pbell.); ; said he would Opposethe Bill- of last year
"wete now introduced. He had said nothing of the
• Port -
CAMPBELL said he must have:- been under
A„, Misapprehension. e had thought the 'Right Rev.
1,,,1ate had said ne- B.
•
-ol;tae LORD:CHAINCELLOR wished to make a few
• eleervetions in answer. to the Noble and Learned Lord, .
asked what reason. the Government had, for dee
‘•llting-from tkeir, original plan.. His•Noble.and Learned
,end -44 supposed that he .-(the Lord-Chancellor) as
rober of the:Government had. not concurred in the
of introducing the , Bill- of laetl4ear•intb-the-House
th • Commons;- • His Noble •and- Learned Friend was in!
titti" respect quite mistaken.- Nothing that he (the Lord
etZleellor) had said that night in the course of the (Bs,
Pu warranted his Noble and_ Learned Friend in
lbr„lng to that eoncluSien. He, in point:n(34*Al' the rest'
l'uck Cabinet, entirely approved of that measure, andaY ,
Were all. most desirous ,p£ carrying it. into effect.
443 Noble, .and Learned. Lgtd now turned -rounds and
the why they had abandoned .that measure, and why
'thty, now-introduced .a measure curtailed of .some of
...Better: parts of the measure of last • 'session.
'411: Noble and Learned Friends thought there was some
hr• ,4teiry, about :the matter; but, -if-they-referred to the
-46--..wy of the Bill in its progress through the other
`•
stot Parliament, it would, afford them.an ixplana-
, of the matter. After the second reading of the
Ate in the • House' of Commons, it was' seen by .every
touter in that_Housethat it would.be quite impossible
in arc's it, in its,then form, through to the_ third read-
. tj!.._ Such alterations were made in the Committee as,
fsb:ender it probable thai it might .be carried in the
ivee-that- it. then assumed: •• The- question then was,
set) Liter the measure should- be wholly Abandoned; or ,
itedtiLd be carried in its curtailed-State. What reason
•.4 !.goy to suppose that'tbe Bill, in its original fOrm,
lagrilt had been sent . to. the House of Corn-.
ip !I again •so sent, :,would ,not be treated
tiott•Tsimilar manper as it had been hiSt seg.
ia .The. Bill now introduced was -in the state
ote'-uch it went through Conunittee. last session in the.'
helot. et 1.1
,---.?use 'and in whichit bad. he believed, been laid'
‘1)Iler their Lordships' House. He thought it right and
ent not to .do that „which experience had shovin
had
ld ineffectual,
but to bring in a-, measure, which
ahead obtained 'approval. The. Rill could be read
1h et‘° time,ad e and then, if any Noble Lord thought that.
,e-otod.'"aure of last .yeaecould be,passed into a •law, he
~,..Inove an amendment to that effect. But he (the
Ntii4 •alttneellor) would-not • give: his sanction to any
eeet,s'Lelendreent. That was his explanation of the
the 2 whiehlad ,been pursued .by the Government in
Qovehlter;•and in that course every member of the
Threitnent concurred. • .
was then read a second time, and. ordered to
otZeuaitted ,on Tuesday next:. •relate •
a few words-from-the Duke of ,BUCCLEUC
• tzwai_ e to the observations made that . night by the
l'esbi,l'uld Learned Lord opposite (Lord Campbell) with
tilr‘ to the Three-and-a-Half ,per Cents. Annuities
ti Co • . • •
, "rnmons! Amendments to the Gaming Tmnsic-
. tiritist,i(filoeusrseneds' Indemnity Bill were agreed to, and the
at Nine o'Clock.

ROUE" OF COMMONS, March 21.
Cen.t.PRAIKR
,Ett took the Chair at Pour o'Clock.
EASTERN RAILWAY 13EANCHES.
b
. KNATC7III3ULT4 moved that it be an
the —4cLion to the Committee of
,Selection to postpone
Itall,eethlt; of the Committee on the South Eastern
until after Easter... He said that his object
of trsitting
this motion. was
.to ensure the attendance
eMbers who were interested in the Bill.
Bitt4r *Sew words from Mr. GLADSTONE,
IP •
70/4'.ARD KNAICIIBULL consented to with-
-`4°. "notion.

•
. NEW WRIT.
-.*ltunion of Six THOMAS FREMANTLE , a