The Sun.
London, England, 1845-01-16 00:00:00

TH►E SUN, 110NriON, THURSDAY EVENING, JAN

nected with his name. He ought never to have been
the Member for Middlesex. His election was one
of the most lamentable occurrences which has been
witnessed for many years. The poet Campbell tells
us That " Freedom shrieked when Kosciusko
Liberalism, if it did not weep, ought to have done so,
when Mr. Wood, or Tom Wood, as he is familiarly
called, was chosen Member fur so important a county
as Middlesex. His presence in Parliament, as the
representative of that county, is one cf those things
for which the friends of popular principles have cause
to blush. An opportunity is now afforded of getting
' rid of him. If the free traders who possess the means
will only, without the loss of a day—for, literally, a
day is not now to be lost—purchase some little cot.
tage, valued at forty shillings per annum, there will.
be an overpowering majority of free traders at the
next election for Middlesex. We need not, in that
case, name the result—the legislative services of
friend " Tom" will be dispensed with.

can have little hope of the (game-keeping) Church,
Grantley Berkeleys don't grow on every hedge
and don't lurk in every thicket. If they did,
there is no doubt in the world every poacher would
find his match. Country gentlemen would abandon
the milksop idea of sleeping o' nights in their beds ; and
arouse themselves—not in Puseyite fashion for nocturns
or matins—but pro uric et, foci., (hares and foxes)—for
manful conflict with midnight prowlers for game, or
malicious foes of vermin. And the perfect gentle
knight, or honourable, will find a moat perfect
gentle pattern or all that he ought to be, and must be,
to preserve the Palladium of " a large in ad of game."
As Imlac convinced Rassejas that it was impossible to be
a poet, so Mr. Grantley Berkeley has all but convinced
us that it is impossible to be a game-preserve r
And this results from the irreceptivity in the game-
keeping mind of right principles of rhetoric. If
these misguided men would but listen to Archbishop
Whately and Mr. Grantley Berkeley ! " I never,"
said the former—we beg pardon, the latter—" spoke
till I had struck, and then everybody else but two ran
away, simply because they did not know how many more
there were behind me to play at the sarae rough game.
However, talk to them as you will, teach them as you
may, keepers never can be made to adopt this simple and
humane plan, and that is the reason they get hurt.
Here let me make a passing remark on a very great
error into w hich magistrates, as well as the public, are
apt to fall. They are quick to blame gamekeepers and
policerden, if a prisoner shows any marks of punish-
ment, there being no corresponding appearance of
blows on the persons of the captors. They are also
(especially the public)• sure to cry down as unnecessary
the use of handcuff's.. Now, to speak in homely
downright old English phrase, there is nothing which
banishes an inclination to commit murder or to be dan-
gerous, from a brutal mind, half so much as a simple,
well-directed punch in the head.' All, or nearly all
murderers are cowards : the sight of their own blood
will prevent their shedding the blood of others. A game-
keeper,
or a constable, need not wait till he is struck ; if

SPI ItIT of tlio PUBLIC JOURNALS.
FROM TILE EVENING- PAPERS OF YESTERDAY.
STAN DARD.—The letter of the Archbishop of Can-
terbury must go far in restoring peace to the Church.
His Grace distinctly instructs his clergy to abandon all
recent changes that have not been made with the general
acquiescence of their respective congregations, and 'to
attempt no new alterations. The command extends, in
fact, to a prohibition of all the recent changes, though,
for form's sake (no doubt), it is divided under three
heads. First, as respects the case of churches in which
the changes have been made with general acquiescence.
There are no such churches; but if there were any such,
the public would have' no right to complain that the con-
gregations should be permitted their superstitious indul-
gences even to the setting up of the mass. They would
no more belong to our Protestant Church, than does the
Roman Catholic Chapel at Moorfields. It is part of our
religious liberty to allow all men to worship
as they please ; and while our cathedrals and
parish churches, chapels of ease, and other churches and
chapels legally connected with the Established Church,
are preserved pure, we have no right to complain.
In none of these, however, have the recent
changes been introduced without more or less
of dissatisfaction, if not of resistance ; but either
dissatisfaction or resistance is not general acquiescence.
Next, the Primate enjoins that where changes
similar to those made elsewhere have not been
attempted hitherto, they must not be attempted
hereafter. Thirdly, where the changes are still the sub-
ject of dispute, the dispute must be abandoned ; but the
only party that can properly abandon the dispute—the
party, too, over whom the Archbishop has more direct
power—the party who is single against many—must be
the party to submit, in order to ensure that " general
acquiescence" which, under the first h: ad, his Grace de •
scribes as indispensable to justify a continuance of the
changes. A respectful but firm remonstrance from any
considerable portion of any congregation must, in the
terms of the injunction, be a conclusive reason for
their discontinuance. His Grace is at great pains
to concede such as may be, or may pretend to be, dis
tressed by the necessity of this sacrifice to peace, by
telling them in the first place, that their interpretation
of the rubric is by no means so certain as they may
imagine. " Upon careful examination," says the
Lord Primate, with a modesty deserving all respect and
worthy of universal imitation, " I have found reason to
think that some of these questions are more difficult
of solution than is commonly imagined ; and
" that the meaning which occurs at first sight is not
always the most correct." The clergy have it, therefore,
upon the highest authority in the Church, that the
question of the rubrical interpretation is, at least,
extremely doubtful, but "in dubiis presumitur pro
neganti" is the rule of the civil law as it is the maxim of
common sense—to " stand fast when we are not sure of
our road " The doubts of the Archbishop of Canterbury
must afford great relief to the distress of the rubricians;
but his Grace has other topics of consolation, for he in-
timates that the practice of the last 180 year s is very proba-
bly the practice intended by the lawgivers of the Church.
The opponents of the changes may, says the Primate,
plead an usage opposite to the interpretation lately given
to the rubric " reaching back to the time when the in-
tention of the lawgiver was best understood." 'Usage, as
a Contemporary has remarked, is acknowledged the best
interpreter of any law, but usage contemporary with the
enactment of a law, and continued downward without
in'erruption, is in every case decisive of the intention of
the legislator. Another consideration which must not
only alleviate the distress of the rubricians, but alarm
such tender consciences as theirs, with a suspicion
that their interpretation may be all wrong and the
practice from which they would depart perfectly right.
The most important, and what to really modest men
would be the most effectual consolation is, the argumfn-
tum ad verecundiam, as Mr. Locke cells it. " The most
conscientious clergymen,"•says the Primate, " have felt
themselves justified in treading in the steps of their pre-
decessors." We cannot go wrong in quoting Locke,
and therefore we will transcribe his description of the
argument here employed, because we think that it very
exactly describes the state of the question before us :
" First, the firstis to allege the opinions of men whose
parts, learning, eminency; power, or some other cause
has gained a name, and settled their reputation in the
common esteem with some kind of authority. When
men are established in any kind of dignity, it is thought
a breach of modesty for others to derogate any way from
it, and question the authority of men who are in posses-
sion of it. This is apt to be censured, as carrying with
it too much of pride, when a man does not readily yield
to the determination of approved authors, which is
wont to be received with respect and submission by
others ; and it is looked upon as insolence for a man to
set up and adhere to his own opinion, against the cur-
rent stream of antiquity ; or to put it in the balanc:,
against that of some learned doctor, or otherwise ap-
proved writer. Whoever backs his tenets with such
authorities thinks he ought thereby to carry the cause,
and is ready to style it impudence in any one who shall
stand out against them. Th's, I think, may be called
argumentunt ad verecundiam." " Pride," " insolence,"
" impudence," are the rough names that Locke gives to
the temper of those uninfluenced by the " argu-
mentunt ad verecundiam,'." What name would Locke
give to those who should not be influenced by
the authority of the whole Church's practice for 180
years upon a question of interpretation which
in the text interpreted, and apart from all external
argument, appears to the learned and pious Archbishop
of Canterbury to be extremely doubtful; and who
should resist their metropolitan in a matter which,
as he says, and as all rational men must agree
with, has bean advisedly left in a great degree to
the discretion of the Church arid its gevernors?—" It
must also be granted that the intention of the Church
is not always clearly discoverable from the language of
the ruble, nor determinable with absolute certainty from
the records of early practice. In such cases it may with
some show of reason be said, that, as the eminent men to
whom the several revisions of the Liturgy were succes-
sively entrusted did net see the necessity of giving direc-
tions so precise as to ensure a rigid conformity in every
particular, we may be contented to acquiesce in slight
deviations from rule, suggested by convenience, and
sanctioned by long usage." Here, then, surely, we have
enough to rescue from distress the most sensitive con-
science.
GLOBE—It is recommended, in Whately's " Ele-
ments of Rhetoric," that oratorical action should precede
rather than follow the words :—" Boys are generally
taught to employ the prescribed action either after or
during the utterance of the words it is to enforce. The
best and most appropriate action must, from this circum-
stance alone, necessarily appear a feeble affectation. It
suggests the idea of a person speaking to those who do not
fully understand the language, and striving by signs to ex-
plain the meaning of what he has been saying. The very
1 same gesture, had it come, at the proper, that is the
natural, point of time, might perhaps have added greatly
to the effect, viz., had it preceded somewhat the
utterance of the words. That is always the natural
order of action. An emotion, struggling for utterance,
produces a tendency to a bodily gesture, to express that
emotion more quickly than words can be framed; the
words follow as soon as they can be spoken. And this
being always the case with a real earnest, unstudied
speaker, this mode of placing the action foremost, gives
(if it be otherwise appropriate) the appearance of
earnest emotion actually present in the mind." The ac-
cordance of -the above with the fitness of things must at
once strike every reader. And it appears to have parti-
cularly struck 'the Hon. Mr. Grantley Berkeley—that is
to say, providing always the Hon. Mr. Grantley Berkeley
has read it. If he has not, the coincidence of his theory
of rhetoric with Archbishop Whately's only affords
a fresh illustration of the adage that " Great wits
jump." ""A word and a blow," has hitherto been
the expression of rough readiness for action. On the joint
authority, thowever, of Archbishop Whately and the
Hon. Mr. Grantley Berkeley, the better reading, hence
forth, will be " a blow and a word." The action should
precede the word. " The reverse of this natural order,"
says the above-cited authority (not the Honourable but
Archiepiscopal) " would be sufficient to convert the ac-
tion of Demosthenes himself into an unsuccessful and
ridiculous mimicry." It will not be the fault of the Hon.
Mr. G. Berkeley, if any Demosthenes in clog-skin gloves
shall henceforth have his action converted " into an
unsuccessful and ridiculous Mimicry." He has laid
down rules of rhetorical efficacy, which carry out in
practice all that Aristotle, or Archbishop Whately, pro-
pound in theory. Nay. more, he has struck a new light
in the philosophy of rhetoric altogether, "beyond all
Greek, beyond all Roman fame." He has not only
given new and varied applications of Whately's
idea that action ought to precede words, but
be has • reached the sublime discovery, that
action may be made so rhetorically efficacious,
as to dispense with any ivoich at all 1 Lord
Burleigh's shake of the head must henceforth rank
second, longo interval b, to the Hon. Mr. Grantley
Berkeley's punch in the bead. And he has this advan-
tage over former rhetorical theorists, that "he is himself
the great sublime he draws," His precepts have been
tested by experience. The Hon. Mr. Grantley Berkeley,
has come forth, at this•the eleventh hour, with a " De-
fence of the Game-laws."• -And we should be disposed to
concede to him, that, if al/ country gentlemen were of his
calibre, they might be defended. Defended, that is to
say, de.facto—without too curious question of de jure.
It is the non-übiquity of Grantley Berkeleys that
creates the insufficiency of game-laws. " Quand on
sail ce qu'on veut," says a French historian, "et qu'on
,le vent vite et Lien, on l'obtient toujours' The mischief
according to Mr. Grantley Berkeley, and we
quite agree with him—that all the meld are not up
to his 'nark—that gamekeepers of his nerve :and
muscle are not to be had for the money—that there is
only one Hercules to so many Caei ; and that Hercules
cannot get on, all the year round without his club.
.Mr.
Grantley Berkeley is, therefore, like Mr. Newman, un-
willingly reduced to reason with oppenents, from the
sheer impossibility of universal appliance in his own per-
son of that rhetorical action in the efficacy of which he
alone confides. But' alas, like Mr. Newman,he

he sees that a blow is thought of, he is justified in strik-
ing, to prevent his being struck ; for if he stands still to
receive a blow, the force of it may prevent hi:, fulfilling his
bounden duty. Let me ask the public, which is the truly
humane man, he who, by a timely, but not a serious
blow, prevents an offaider, whose custody the law
demands, from committing murder, or the man who,
from a false feeling, or from timidity, in any sense of
the word, refrains from stepping in to thwart malevo-
lence, and so permits the larger crime to be committed?
A little sharp and necessary severity does infinite ser-
vice ; it protects the servant of the law, and often saves
an offender from plunging body and soul into deeper
guilt. lam convinced that if there was more fighting
and fewer words on the part of those legally assailing
armed men, there would be infinitely fewer murders on
the face of the criminal returns. I have been per-
sonally engaged," says the heroic Mr. Berkeley, " with
poachers in twenty-six instances, by night and day, and
always with success, having made it a rule to be the first
to play at the roughest game. The old adage—' that one
sword drawn keeps others in their scabbards,' would
apply well on all these occasions."

STATE OF TRADE.
(From the Manches(er Guardian.)
The market continues quite as firm and buoyant as it
was last week. For yarn, especially, the demand is very
good, and spinners find no difficulty in making
contracts for six weeks or two months to come, in
many cases at a trifling advance on the current rates of
last week. Goods are also generally in excellent demand,
and very scarce, with the exception of the better quali-
ties of 27-inch printing cloth, which are rather quiet,
though perfectly firm in price.
ROCHDALE FLANNEL MARKET, MONDAY, JAN. 13.—T0-
day is what is called the new or first market; but there has
been no extra quantity of business transacted. It is gene-
rally more a day of bringing in and settling of accounts,
than of buying and selling. The prices of flannels re-
main the same as last week, notwithstanding the raw
material continues to advance, The manufacturers are in
good spirits, and are expecting a further improvement in
trade this spring.

MONEY MARKET and CITY NEWS.
FROM THE MORNING PAPERS OF THIS DAY.
CITY WEDNESDAY EVENING.
CHRONICLE.—The second notification from the
Railway Department of the Board of Trade, which ap-
peared in the Gazette of last night, disposes of seventeen
proposed schemes of railway in the southern district and
vicinity of the metropolis. The first division consists of
four lines ; and the second, or metropolitan division,
contains thirteen lines. As respects the first, the Board
has decided on reporting to Parliament in favour of one
only, namely, the Guildford, Chichester, Portsmouth,
and Fareham Branch, being an extension of the South-
Western line from Guildford to Chichester. The pro-
posed direct line from London to Portsmouth is rejected
by the Board of Trade, as well as the proposed line to
Portsmouth, with branches to Shoreham bridge, Fare.
ham, and Reigate, and the proposed branch extension,
by the Brighton Company, from Chichester to Ports-
mouth, now to form part of the south-western branch
from Guildford. Of the second, or metropolitan district,
the Board has decided to report to Parliament in favour
of three lines only ; namely-1. The extension of the
South-Western from its present terminus at Nine Elms
to a more centrical and convenient position ; 2. The
Richmond and West-end Junction ; and 3. The pro-
posed line from Richmond to Staines.
The Epsom and Dorking, one of the numerous irons in
the fire which the Croydon Company has in hand—the
London and Croydon Dorking Branch, belonging to the
same family—the London and. Brighton Dorking Branch
—and the South-Eastern Dorking and Reigate Branch,
are recommendend to be postponed until a future period.
The Board has decided on reporting against the
Grosvenor Railway; the Great Western, Uxbridge, and
Staines Junction; London and Brighton and Wands-
worth Branch; Landon and South-Western Epsom
Branch; Metropolitan Central Junction; and the South
London and Windsor. Four lines, then, out of seven-
teen, only are to be favourably repOrted on to Parlia-
ment; four others are postponed; and nine are thrown
overboard by the Railway Department of the Board of
Trade.
The result is in favour of the South-Western line ;
protective of the interests of that Company, nearly as
much as the previous notification was in favour of the
interests of the Great Western line. The pr moters of
rejected lines will prove a formidable arid numerous
body to all appearances. It is not to be expected that
they will submit without further effort to the opinions of
the Board of Trade, or at least it is not likely that
many, if any, of the Provisional Committees will relax
their efforts until they have an opportunity of perusing
the report to be presented to Parliament, which, no
doubt, will explain the principles on which the notifica-
tions have been made, and the reasons which actuated
the members of the Board in forming their decisions.
The labours of the Select Committees on Railway
Bills in the House of Commons must, in that view of the
question, be of a very arduous and extensive character.
What effect the previous opinions of the Board of Trade
may produce upon their proceedings it is difficult to say,
but we see no cause to depart from the belief already ex-
pressed under this head, that it must have great weight,
as emanating from a department of the Government. At
the same time, it is to be kept in view that Members of
Parliament are the representatives of particular consti-
tuencies, whose interests will be more or less affected—
favourably or the reverse—by the result of their delibe-
rations, and when the decision of the Board comes into
collision with the wishes of the constituencies of Mem-
bers of Parliament sitting as judges, it is not to be pre-
sumed that the Committees will confirm the adverse
views to be expressed in the report by Lord Dalhousie
and his colleagues, without allowing evidence to be ad-
duced, and giving full scope to those parties interested in
the new schemes which have been rejected or postponed,
or which may be hereafter reported against in the future
" notifications" which are yet to be made in the Gazette.
SUN.—A decline occurred this afternoon in some of the
English Stocks owing to the state of the Account, which
will be arranged to-morrow. Consols for the opening
dropped to 100, and were last marked 1004. Reduce 4
Three per Cents. were 1004 ; anti the Three-and-a-
Quarter per Cents., 104. Exchequer Bills receded to
58s. premium, but left off at 60s. premium.
Spanish Bonds have advanced a little, as the Bears
have their accounts to make up to-morrow. The Five
per Cents, were 27 to for the 31st inst.; and the Three
per Cents., 37 to 4. Mexican were 341 4; Colombian,
14 i; and Brazilian, 894.
The additional transactions in Railway Shares have
been these:--Birmingham and Gloucester were 8; Bristol
and Gloucester, 134; Cambridge and Lincoln, 1 ; Dublin
and Belfast, 24; Eastern Union, 1 to 14; Great Southern
and Western of Ireland Extension, 2; Great Western,
894; Birmingham, 130; South-Western, 394; Croydon,
34; Newcastle and Darlington, 41 to 40; Ditto and
Berwick, 7i; North British, 24; Northern and Eastern
Scrip, 12 to a ; Ditto, Quarter, 124; Richmond and
West-end Junction, 2i; South-Eastern, 93. to 4; South
Wales, 4; Boulogne and Amiens, 24 to 24; Orleans and
Vierzon, 8-1,-; Ditto and Bordeaux, 6. 4; Great Northern
of France, 14; Paris and Orleans, 244 4; and Paris and
Rouen, 21 to 20j. premium. Eastern Counties have
been 841 discount. Londoa and Westminster Batik
Shares were 7 premiuni.

ATTEMPT TO rorsort.--MANctiEsTER, TUESDAY,--
This morning a man named Benjamin Anderson, who
was brought up on Tuesday last, at the Borough Court,
upon the charge of having attempted to poison his wife
and two children, was brought up for further examina-
tion. The prisoner, who is a ferocious-looking fellow,
appeared quite unmoved at the situation in which he
stood, and had lost the vacant stare which he exhibited
on the occasion of his first examination. The evidence
previously adduced went the length of showing that sugar
of lead had been found in some sugar in a cupboard in
the prisoner's house, amt that the prisoner's wife had re-
cognised it in a basin of tea which she had made. It was
also proved that the prisoner had been seen doing some-
thing in the cupboard where the sugar and poison were
found, and the reascn of his being remanded was in
order that the police might ascertain where and when
he had purchased the poison. Mr. Beswick, the chief
superintendent of police, having drawn the attention of
the Court lo the case, called Mr. James Croft, druggist,
of Pollard-street, who stated that on Friday night
week the prisoner came into his shop and asked for a
pennyworth of sugar of lead for eye-water, Ile gave
the prisoner an ounce of sugar of lead wrapped in paper.
Ile had no doubt but that the prisoner was the man. In
cross-examination by Mr. Harding, the witness said he
did not mark the paper with the word Poison." The
prisoner was fully committed for trial at the next Liver-
pool Assises.
Dispatches from the Governor-General pf Canada,
and from the Governors of the other North American
Provinces, were received yesterday at the Colonial-
office.

1 wishes for the English allina7 co ;he has not proposed or 'its walls. The present eituatio—n is said by many to b
Ivithll,hoarnil thes
thefi
teihrilafliat'cougnlentd,
rho contrary,
I find no one able to prove I declaree
n hinted in the gitestiotis which we ha's,:
tihheandl
htraelanti
l position
.rotoe
ofdjai
_FRANCE,
p
hel C. :tbi- cuity?
..•
,/-:
! oevfeany solution very differ, m, t from that .1).
all . the
eLaistso7,tioenms
omtuamde
ionnmtehnis,s pmitt,?sl.
'adopted. He could not h'alp acknowlEd' '
! years, all that he demands ht ,s been dorg,teln by th
g at for four a •
hbeorTt
, get.. Peace has been mains sine ; Vie ..ri l'
Pie.] 'ea
,Y ! .entatiaber mill not allow itself to be 1 i n.
-a
. '
siClhibHlefyAt
hMe Peers
Chamberß E
is in d 11, , . ns which have arisen De- an 1
i I
anti Oa
ChambertsFti
strangers.
fnoEDgpEeeernpßs il.inS—:eAss \S.:jilt:l
c7eueis:te
i7noycitOi mrFot
hirj:recoAhr Nsoce*
fraoltro3sw.:lrn
lee i
:1
f, 11 r'ffour • tbe q,),%sth ) 4'g is .a hanece see nothine le ea .--r- - .
I tween the countries have been regular/v and Tlf 1
r„.( facot:ous tumult in the public "o er Is The'
psearsNt-etdwof.or
Amongf,hem. tThheepesietrtsintr‘evsaesnot ptizesci
tahtea
pcpui quarter- get. ,
I settled. He has reminded us of one vsliich remained,
~..-.ed away by such
Ministers•
i ; suspense—the question of the right or,s,, i manoeuvres,but
arch. sinc.o . •it ,will perceive the truth through the mist
Nemours and Marshal Soult, as well as the whole of the
The order of the day having been read for the generli
, last session, I have followed seriously ulid • 1
, our i thrown around it. For my par, I shall show that in
discuasion a the Address in Answer to the Speech front
lively the negotiation of e Ilia I accepted t,. • atten- : the affair of Otaheite, as in that-of Morocco, all the acts
the Throne,
, have represented to the English Gov-. -•,e burden. I of the Goveimnent have sprung naturally from file
Coaut Mole mounted the tribune, amidst
sonic the r • ,
sity of searching, in order to at.f-• ,rnnrent the feces- nature of the question., and he
siten' tiler *
altos; in
ing, followed by deep attention and silence. He said:— ,
end to which -* r 'old -' ...in one common end (an ! accordance with true Conservative
in this I
py.—(flear.)
Gentlemen, for four years I have kept -Silence
devoted as the Eucel • ~tall always be as sincerely I Count Mole (from his plaee)—l rise to rspl • a fen
Chamber, from respect for any party, from respect for I
~c - • eesii nation or its Government), the ; words to an observation of the Honourable Mi ni 51 tner He.
' repression
the Conservative party which estp.ports, the Cabinet, and
I °the-. the slave trade—of searching, I say, fur 1 has told you that there is an intention on our *t
par to
from respect for myself. I feareu that my words might , . , means than the right of search, which have become ' come forward and assume the reins of Government
carry some disunion into the ranks
.„e the conseregtive inefficacious for the suppressionslave trade, at the ; because the present situation of affairs is so good that ,
majority, and I feared not the less to- appear actuated by I same time that it threatens to compromise the relations is not feared to compromise affairs ; and that roves itto
a wish for revenge which would he unworthy of me, .of the two countries. The English Government has un- ime that the Minister of For Affairs also c.paiside. d
Revenge is the consolation of the s earquished, but the I derstood this position. It has comprehended the reasons , the situation excellent in 18.38- and 1839, iiir I belt,-t;
President of the Council of the 15th of April had not on which our proposition is founded, and mixed commis . him to be too goo.l a patriot to suppose that lie would
been so, and he formed no other wish shwa his voltin- :
; stoners are to be charged immediately to inquire Loge- have attacked the Government with so much bitter-
tart' retreat than to see the affairs of the country , ther for new means to put down the slave trade—means ness if there had been any danger in the position -of
directed with prudence, and conducted with intelli- . which will be equally efficacious, or more efficacious even affairs at that time.—(Noise,) The Al ini,ter of
gence and firmness. More than once, however, 'I ; than the right ot search. The question is thus as far Foreign Affairs asks me what I would do the day after
have seen great faults done, and I asked in my con- I advanced as it can be at the present moment. The Ho- 'my assumption of power, but I had no idea of the kind
science if I was really not at liberty to point them out ; ' nourable Gentleman may thus be satisfied. There is up ' when I spoke. The Hon. Minister designates as ep-
hut the same scruples always prevented me. I should Ito the present moment no question pending between the I position anything which is an obstacle to his pee
have abstained even to-day if the best accredited organs two countries, which is of a compromising nature. Yet, . policy •• he sees nothing, absolutely nothine cloudy
of the Minister of Foreign Affairs did not every mere. although the Cabinet has done all this for the last four !in the horizon ; does he then consider the affair's of Ota-
ing throw me a defiance to explain myself from the tri- Years ; although the Honourable Member admits at but. I hcite and the right of search terminated i My convic-
bone with respect to their policy, and if they did not 1 tom, and in the whole, our policy, he criticises a part of Lion ie, that it was the unseasonable convention of 1841
join to that defiance the only insult which the care of 1 our conduct. He thinks, that he can see that at one which aggravated the great difficulties of the question
my personal dignity will not allow me to disclaim. The I time we might have done more, at another less. That of the right of. search. I say inure— I say that he en-
Minister of Foreign Affairs and his friends must neces- Iwe might have done otherwise, or might have done i tered into engagements which he cannot keep. I re-
sarily, reckon much on the benefits of time, and place i better. He finds fatilty errors which will compro- preach him with having been wanting in courage to- I
much confidence in want of memory on the part of the 1 mise, according to him, hereafter, the results wards the other Chamber. lam accustomed to public 1
country, to speak as they do of intrigue, of renewed lat present obtained, and which we at present affairs, and I can see no measures which would be ac-
coalition ; or they are endowed with considerable auda- enjoy. I shall discuss, in the course of this debate, , cepted by England, which can ever replace the right of'
city, or as they call it, courage. To whom, then, have the special questions to which these particular criticisms search—the mode at present employed for the suppres-
we given the right to think that we could e drawn by aPPIy• But even if that should be true ; even if such sion of the slave trade. The affair of Otaheite, you say,
the spite or ardour of ambition,so far as to disavow our and such particular reproaches should be well founded, is also terminated, and nevertheless it is still burning,
whole life, to tread under foot the maxims which we do you believe that they would be sufficient motives, that and lam still at a losi to know how a mind so eminent
have constantly sustained, and to become the hottest de- they they are sufficiently grave to induce a grave man, 'as that of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, could have
fenders of principles and of doctrines which we have al- who approves in principle of our policy, to commit (allow allowed himself to be lured into such conquests. On
ways opposed. Do you wish, gentlemen, to know from me the word) an act of opposition such as has- now those points in the South Seas, where we find ourselves
what comes all this noise, all this wrath, which satisfies been made from this tribune ? Is the Honourable Count opposed to England, it will be necessary to offer some
itself with so many unjust insinuations, and even with Mold ignorant that the policy, the principle of which he system of action. You well know the results which
the faults, of the Minister of Foreign Affairs? The em- approves, has many obstacles to surmount, many ene- may be anticipated from the concurrence to Catholic
barrassment which it has created for itself, the evidence mies to overcome, many dangers to run ? Is he igno- and Protestant missions. What system do you propose
of these faults, and above all the gravity of the rant that it has had to struggle against national preju- to adopt in this case ? You have chosen just the part
consequences which they ~ may have produced, dices, which are worthy of respect even when they err ? in this affair which appears to throw you into inextri-
have affected the minds, nay the ranks of the Is he ignorant that the revolutionary factions have con- cable embarrassment. The result of this fault has been
majority. From that moment they became alarmed, spired against that policy, and endeaveur without ceasing the shedding of much blood, and the greatest state of
and the word intrigue is nothing more than a cry to ruin and upset it, because it is the real obstacle to uncertainty with regard to our new possessions. This
of alarm. Is it necessary, then, that a mode of con- their designs ? Is it an act of prudence, is it an act of is your work, these are the embarrassments which you
ducting the affairs of the country, which may place the Patriotism, to give all of a sudden enemies, who threaten I have yourselves created. If these difficulties can be sur-
interests or the dignity of the country in peril, should so violently, a policy which he approves on the whole, , mounted, I shall rejoice with all my heart. You speak
become indifferent to the majority for the sole reason, and for the principles of which he desires success ? No, of private ambition—we act through patriotism, and not
that the Opposition combats it, or has pointed it out ? I these are not sufficient reasons for such an act of oppo- ambition. You imagined, perhaps, that I would not dal e
should be unjust to insist more ; a word should be suffi- sition. I still seek the true reasons—the peremptory , declare what I thought ofyour policy, but you were mis-
cient to repel imputations which cannot reach us. I owe reasons —which could have decided Count Mole Perhaps ! taken. I have no ambition to possess your place. I de-
it, however, to the Chamber, to lay before it my whole he thinks that good policy is now not the question—that sire simply that you may get with honour out of' the
ideas of that system of policy of which they are about to it is so well established, and so sure of success, that it embarrassments which you created for yourselves, and
appreciate the acts, and to justify that which I have may be treated severely, that no respect should be ac- which, I confess, alarm me. I wish nothing more.
already said in regard to it. If I were ;to characterise corded to it, and that it may be treated as harshly and M. Guizot—As I intended in the beginning of my
the doolicy of the Minister of Foreign Affairs,. in one as exactingly as people may choose. If it were so, speech, I shall not at present enter into any details as to
word I should say, that it is every where and at all if this were the motive'whieh induced the Honourable the question of Otaheite. I shall that point t
times a policy a entrance; it is a
to policy of extremes Gentleman to speak, he will allow me thank him another part of the discussion. I ascend the tribune to even in its weaknesses. From the moment that the in the name of the Cabinet, for if the peace— remark on one of the Noble Peer's assertions relative to
Minister of Foreign Affairs adopts a principle he exag- if the alliance with England—if the good relations the right of search. Has the Noble Peer considered
gerates it. He allows himself to be drawn rapidly over between the two countries are secured to that extent, the maturely what he has just spoken ? He wishes the
to the extremeconsequances, as if a mind such as his could Cabinet has the right to take some credit to itself. It is question to be arranged, and yet he declares that he
be ignorant that the extreme consequences of a prin a great service which it has rendered to the country and cannot imagine any other efficient measure but that now
ciple are surely exhausted by provoking an inevitable to the Opposition itself. It is that which has given the in force to repress the slave trade. It would, therefore,
reaction against it. Thus, the Minister of Foreign Opposition the security and the leisure which it sets to be necessary for France to renounce either putting down
Affairs wishes for peace; and all France, all opinions in work to-day against the Cabinet itself. lam neither the slave trade, or changing the present mode of repres-
the country, commencing with the political men of each surprised at this, nor do I complain of it. I know that sion. No, France does not find herself in such an alter-
of them, wishes for it as much as he does, and yet he the Opposition is not bound to be grateful, but lam en- native. When I undertook the management of
public
speaks of it in such a manner, he shows so much titled to remind it of the benefits. Another motive, affairs I thought that it was possible to find more effi-
ardour and anxiety for its maintenance, that he makes perhaps, has influenced the Honourable Gentleman. Pete cient means than the existing ones to put down the
people believe that for that end he would make haps he thinks that, from the position which he takes in slave trade —I undertook to resolve that
problem, and I
such sacrifices that the most pacific could hardly his present conduct, it will he easy for him to maintain have strong hopes of doing so in a manner satisfactory
consider themselves as pacific as he is. He wishes for the good policy and to avoid the faults which he thinks to our interests. I am glad that the Noble Peer has
the English alliance, and I believe that there is not in he discovers on the part of the Cabinet, and wl•ich, ac- furnished me with the opportunity of repeating this
France a well-wisher of his country, a sensible man, and cording to him, will compromise that policy hereafter. double as we believe that the present system
above all, a political man, who does not wish for it, and Let him permit me to inform him that he will be corn- of repression has lost much of its efficacy, and that at
who does not perceive its importance as much as he witting a serious error. To practice efficaciously—to the same time we are determined to repress the slave
does; but, without wishing it, and without knowing it, maintain solidly—a good line of policy, it is not suffi- trade with the same vigour as before. This is what we
he exaggerates the consequences, and he speaks in a dent to be anxious to do so ; it is also necessary to have are seeking to do, and I have the firm conviction that
way to compromise and to rouse the national suscep- in the political arena, and in the midst of the contending the two Governments, united by a mutual good feeling,
tibility against it, and to give to the French a dislike to Parties, a position in harmony with the policy which it will attain this object. Both at Paris and at London
that alliance of which I believe I laid the foundations in is wished to support—a position which will give it this object will be edil pursued, and finally attained,
1830—a dislike which, if it does not cease, may lead to strength. When the confidence of the King called the notwithstanding Ital the prophecies to the contrary, that
great embarrassment hereafter. What are, in fact, present Cabinet to office, the Conservative policy was are furnished so unsparingly on both sides of the Channel.
gentlemen, the two questions which, as is said in the gravely compromised, peace was seriously menaced, the Count de St. Priest made some general observations on
speech of the Crown, have created some difficulties in English alliance was weakened, and the good understand- the ensemble of the address, certain parts of which he
our relations with England, at the same time that in ing between the two countries hardly existed. The Ca- criticised • but after addressing the Chamber for a few
France they have, to a considerable extent, agitated binet was formed to change that state of things. It moments, pleaded indisposition, and requested per.
men's minds? The first of these is the right of search • formed itself under that banner ; it has carried it high mission to retire, reserving to himself the right to speak
the second, the quastion of Otaheite. Do you wish: in front of it, and all the men who wished is it did ral- on the discussion of the paragraphs.
that I should say who has been the most dangerous lied around it. It was under that banner that the Con- Viscount Dubouchage expressed his indifference to
enemy of the right of search ? My God, it is the servative party reunited, and that it has lived for four any change in the Cabinet which would-not bring about
Minister of Foreign Affairs himself. It is his convention years, inn spite of such difficult incidents and trials. Here a change in the policy pursued. Candour should, how-
of 1841, to extend the operation of that right, which has is a clea, simple, and strong position for the majority, ever, be observed. It was not the present Ministry which
brought about the reaction of the public mind and of the and for the Government which marches at its head. had prepared the treaty of October 29, 1840 ; it was not
Chambers against the right itself, In seeing him make What, on the contrary becomes of the Hon. Gentleman to it that the fault must be imputed of having aban-
that concession, which was so long asked and desired by and his position, after what he has himself said from doned a powerful Prince of the East, an ally ; nor was
England after the treaty of 15th July, 1840,1 the Chambers, this tribune? I admit it ; he would enter into power it the present Ministry which had made the treaty of
not content with haring . prevented—a thing without to practise and to maintain the good policy, while he Mexico, which imposed on them fresh sacrifices and
example, and to some extent to lie regretted—not con- would endeavour to disengage it from what he calls our fresh expenses ;it was not the present Ministry which
tent with having prevented the ratification of that con- faults. But he would enter it by the impulsion and with had made the treaty with the United States for
the pay-
vention, demanded the abolition of the right of reci- the support of all the men who have not ceased to cone- meat of 25 millions of francs. A Cabinet succeeding
procal search, and the elective chamber unanimously bat that policy. He would take power to do the same, another took affairs as they found them, arid it was Lot
forced the Minister of Foreign Affairs to announce that and todo better (as he says) the affairs of the Conservative just that they should be accused for not bringing every
he would enter frankly and loyally into a negotiation, party ; but he would take that power pushed forward, negotiation to a successful termination, for they were
of which he had previously said in this tribune that it carried in, sustained, and raised by all the phases of the compelled to accept them or to sanction them. The
could only end in weakness or folly. When or how can Opposition. It does not require much reflection or much speech from the Throne, in his opinion, was the most
he escape from this net, in the meshes of which he has experience to see that that is a false position, and one remarkable that had been presented to the Chambers for
entangled himself ?
without power. Do you know what would happen if you the last fourteen years. It was remarkable for what it
The Minister of Foreign Affairs—l demand the word. were put to the proof ? You would find yourselves be- said and for what it left unsaid ;it was still more re-
-(Sensation.)
tween a powerful, a considerable, and an important posi- markable for its being couched rather in the language of
Count Mole—Will he be able to make England yield, tion of the Conservative party—discontented, mistrust- an absolutethanof a constitutional monarchy. Healsocom-
or will he be able to make the Chamber give way ? ing, and irritated ; and on the other hand, between ex- plained,that it was silent on many most important subjects.
there are other interests besides his at stake, and I ar- acting b
ybe able to ranches of the Opposition, which would, in fact, It devoted three paragraphs to the entente cordiale,
two
dently wish that he ma answer by announc have good reason to demand something from you, for to interests purely monarchical, and one only to foreign
ing that this negotiation has had a favourable result. In the support which they gave you on your entering into policy, and in this one paragraph there was not a word
the affairs of Otaheite, gentlemen, the faults have been office. Would you call that a good situation for the said of the changes to be made in the treaties of 1831
of such a nature that I must give up the attempt to ex- Government ? Is that a good position for a good line of and 1833, or of
Spain. In conclusion, he said that the
plain them. It was when he was at full and entire policy ? You would do well, you would wish well, at speech from the Throne did not satisfy him, and as the
liberty that the Minister of Foreign Affairs ratified the
the very moment when that policy would be in your proposed address was merely a paraphrase of that speech,
taking possession of that island in the Pacific, and that hands enervated, abased, and compromised. Perfection he should vote against it.
he chose to form an establishment there for France with or amelioration would then be entirely out of the ques- Count Boissy d'Anglas, in a written speech, but in
the title of Protectorate. How I It is so warm a par- tion ; the very foundation and principle of affairs would reading which he was in many parts inaudible in the
titan of the English alliance, who has chosen to form an be compromised by you. If that is the motive which gallery, demanded whether the present Cabinet had pro-
establishment in that part of the globe which is so re- has decided you—if it is confidence that you can in that perly fulfilled the missioc confided to it. It possessed a
mote from us, without interest for us. and from which Position maintain and rectify the policy in question, and numerous army, a powerful fleet, and considerable fins -
the first cannon-shot fir, d upon the sea would force us which is your policy—undeceive 3 ourselves, for that will cial resources ; but had they, with all these advantages,
to retire ; it is he who has chosen to place the protecto- be impossible for you, known how to make France respected ? Had it prom
fish of France in the face of the protectorate of the Eng Count Mole —I demand the word.—(General move- eluded advantageous alliances, or entered into any pro-
lish missionaries, who so many years have ruled the meet.)
fitab treaties To all these uestions he should re
population and the consciences of that country, and M. Guizot—The Hon. Gentleman reproaches the in the negative,? aud should vote against the address. ply
who directed with their counsels the Government or Cabinet, and especially me (and Ido not hesitate to Baron Pasquier—As there are no more names in
-i
,
rather were themselves the veritable Government. say, that I willingly
the accept,
sa he seems to wish to scribed to seak on theeneral discussion, it is now closed.
repose it responsibilityu of the whole of Marquis p
de Boissy rose and demanded to speak on the
The more we reflect upon that the more strange and pon me,
incredible it appears. We are forced in this instance
the policy of the Cabinet) with compromising even the general discussion.
He was, he said, one of those who
to accuse the Minister of Foreign Affairs, at least,
policy which it supports. If that policy has dangers yet complained loudly of the acts of piracy committed on.
to run, it is itself that has created them. The difficulties French vessels. He was a good Frenchman ; but was!
of levity. It could not be sufficient for him to
hope, or even to believe, that the Cabinet of London which exist, it is the Cabinet itself which has raised strongly opposed to England. He gave due homage to:
would be tolerant with respect to his p
them. It is its own faults which create the embarrass- the good faith of Count Mole ; he had said that he
gland—and I say it to .
'
rnents which good policy feels. In truth, the reproach would never carry on a systematic opposition, and never
to have remembered that in Enects. He ought
the honour of that great nation—the Government reckons upon it is a strange one, and I understand those who say theless he had opposed the Cabinet. He should follow
upon acting, and is obliged to do so, with the religious that these are alliances more natural to France, and more in his steps, and he thanked hintfor giving a chief to
men and the religious feeling, and that no Cabinet can
conformable with its interests than the English alliance, the Opposition against the present Ministry.—(Coreme-
and that it is necessary to cultivate them. I understand tion and laughter.) That, he repeated, was what he
refuse its support to their efforts to propagate the faith.
Such is the fundamental principle of the Otaheite ques-
those who, while they wish for peace and a good under- wished ; he desired a complete change in the policy
lion. I cannot sufficiently express my surprise that the
standing with England, say that it is necessary, never- pursued ; he desired that the plan of making too great
theless, on account of ancient recollections, on account sacrifices to perpetuate certain alliances, and of repulsing
ciently soon to spare our good, relations with England
Minister of Foreign Affairs did not understand it suffi-
of certain peculiar interests, to live in good report, but others, should not be persisted in. To justify his wish,
this second and dangerous trial, and to spare France the coldly, with England, without alliance, without intimacy. he would remind the Chamber of some facts which had
blood of her brave sailors, of her brave soldiers, who I believe that both believe themselves, and that in the been already enumerated, but which did not the less
have paid with their lives for our doubtful occupation of present state of affairs and of opinions in Europe, they prove the necessity of the measure which
he proposed.
a rock, when it appears that the Minister of Foreign
seriously deceive themselves; but, in short., these are In 1830, it was said henceforth France was to be governed
A ffairs does'notkhow to remain or how:to'get out ofit. serious opinions, and which must be seriously discussed. with sincerity, but this sincerity was far from being prac-
uow,
The war with Morocco is the only one of all the difficul-
But to come and tell men who, since 1830, have never tised. So far indeed from it, that a public writer had
ties which have occupied the country between the two ceased to support the peace policy and the English alli- ared the resent overnment exceeded ers
sessions, which the Cabinet could not have avoided. ante, who have a hundred
times developed the reasons indecl falsehood and deceit; and he much fearedall thatoth the
Our forces 'by land and by sea, and their illustrious of that policy, that it is they who compromise it, really speech from the Throne, delivered this year, would be
leaders, have there covered themselves with glory. I will is not a subject worthy of being taken seriously, espe- a chef d'oeuvre of that kind.—(Loud marks of dissent.
not examine in detail the treaty which has been termi- cially when the men spoken to are persons who for and exclamations.) The Noble Peer then referred to
nated—not that its tenor does not appear to me to be years past have done more than speak—who have re-es- the occupation of Ancona by the Austrian troops,
such as to attract the attention and observation of the tablished the peace and the English alliance, which had notwithstanding the principle of non-intervention
Chamber of Peers ; but because I have not undertaken been left to them too much compromised, and which for laid down by France, to the rupture with Switzer-
four years they have, defended and sustained against land, to the affairs that took place in the East, and to the
to enter into a detailed examination of the policy of
the Cabinet, and in particular of the Minister of many different parties; who have supported them in the treaties of 1831 and 1833, relative to the right of search,
midst of trials and difficulties of great gravity—who as proofs that the Cabinet had failed in their foreign
Foreign Affairs. It is he
,and his friends who have
have done more—who have carried, as the result of policy. The Noble Peer reproached M. Guizot with
forced me to speak. I never have and never shall
oppose systematically any Cabinet. I have proved this their policy and of their efforts, the peaceable anti regu- having, when Ambassador in England, concluded these
for the last ten years; and with regard to all the Cabinets lar arrangement of many stormy questions raised be- treaties without taking orders from those placed by the
which have succeeded each other, voted for all tween the two countries—to men who have carried the. Constitution over him. Unless the Ministry changed its
that I approved, and even for sonic things of which 1 journey of the Queen of England to the Chateau line of conduct, he felt convinced that it would shortly be
disapproved, so useful and reasonable did I think it in d'Eu, and the journey of the King to Windsor Castle, the last of the Government of July.—(Cries of " Oh,
the present times to aid in the reeular march, whether and all the pacific, amicable, and salutary manifes- oh," and laughter.) The Noble Peer then alluded to
more or less enlightened, of the avernment. In short, tations which have taken piece on this double occa- the visits to Eu and Windsor, and declared that, in his
gentlemen, the difficulties which the Minister of Foreign sion. In the presence of such facts, at the end of four opinion, they merely proved that M. Guizot was the
Affairs has accumulated around him are grave, and Ido 3 ears, to come and tell the men who have brought about most popular man in England, and the most unpopular
not think he will be able to resolve them. Perhaps, such results, at the moment when the questions between in France.—(Agitation and marks of denial.) He should
nevertheless, he may find resources and have abilities the two countries are settled, that it is they who have not at present detain the Chamber any longer, as he re-
which Ido not foresee. Between him arid me there are compromised tho English alliance and the peace, is really served to himself:the right of' speaking on some of the
few means of our understanding each other. We do not not a matter worthy of refutation. Shall I tell you who subjects which he had just adverted to when the pare-
compromises the English'alliance, and the persons who graphs of the address were brought forward separately.
start from the same point ; we do not look to the same
end ; and we differ, besides, as to the legitimate
means are really dangerous for the peace and the good under- The general discussion was then declared to be
closed,of attaining them,
standing between these two countries ? In the first and the first paragraph of the address was read from thet
and
place, it is those who, whether by design or from blind- chair:—" Sire,—We have received with respeec
equally
M. Guizot—l acknowledge that the speech of the
ness, seize upon every difficulty, upon any incident, upon gratitude the wordsiof your Majesty. Witnesses
the State, we
Hon. Member has astonished me. To whom does he
all the questions which are raised between the two coun- with yourself, of the interior prosperity of.n
reply? Of what does he complain ? Who in this place
our national
tries, and aggravate and
ienvenom thein, and, whether return thanks to Providence for permithneg
has accused him of that of which he complains ? Who
territory, the
activity to multiply, on all points of t
voluntarily or ulii tentiona ly, run the risk of producing
ever has spoken to him of such timings ? Ile replies to n
delight, Sire, in re-
rumours from without, to the conversations de sahm, least a coldness. These are the prig-precious fruits ofpeace. Wo take
a rupture, or at .
ofand
E.
l.
Majesty, that these blessings are
cipal, the true compromisers peace the_ ,ng ish cognising with your
the faithful and intelli-
and to newspaper articles. True or false, all those
of our laws, to . .
The second ar those who when suchquestions .to thewisdom .
alliance due
ied into execution, and
ter into the Chamber, nor mount the
things cannot en ' T
raised, when opposition exaggerates and envenoms ent manner in whichthey are carried tribune. The public acts of public men, the reasons are
g .
of public reason."
them, meets them half-way on, or by half repel the at- to the progress
for their conduct publicly given by them, these are
alembert supposed that the Committee
tacks of the Opposition ; then, while they talk, good Count de Mont .
rity of the country, meant not
the only proper objects, the only objects deserving •• •
the prosperity politicians, of their love for their country, and of their in speaking of _
material prosperity, but also to its
of your debates. Ido not undertake : e
, eauer to jus-
lesire to maintainpeace, and to support the English al- only to allude to its ma .
tify or to explain, nor to contest that of which the `•
distant—very
hence, lend a istant—very and very indirect moral
Honourable Gentleman has complained,
and I should
ion, nd would even assert that the moral
assistance ;. but, in short, who lend their assistance, and ferent op
not have thought of saying one word respecting those
inof the country was gravely attacked by the
give an additional strength to men who have seized upon prosperityd
incidents which are occurring outside, if he had not
0 ted in religious matters. In speakin en
every incident, and on every question, to embroil the two choutrseP
spoken of those himself, He has also spoken of the coati- every
felt that he should carry with him but
tion of 1839, and has compared it with that which is countries. It is those persons, also, who, whilste theytn
ltittaley
point,smpathy, but it was not for the mere pleasure of
Profess a desire for peace and sound policy, lend aioe.s
passing at this moment. In another place the Opposi•
Lain
hearing himself speak that lie had come forward, but
tion has often endeavoured to open a discussion upon aid to men and_ parties, who seize_ on all quwest
onpose through a conviction and sense of duty. Six months
. order
.to set. the two countries by the ears. e p
that subject, lido get me to join in it, I have always
back, after the long, luminous, and profound discussion
refused ; I did not think that, for th© sake or my nee_ them both—
of the new Secondary Instruction Bill, most eminent
" Les uns, parce Tells soot Ineehans et malfaisans,
tonal defence in past times, I ought to sacrifice. '
at the
Et let autres, pour e're aux meehans complaisans, men had asserted, that if the prelates kept
silence, the
present time, the interests of my party, the 'Conservative
reproaches which were directed against them would fall
Et n'avoir pas pour eux ces haines vigoureurs,
party, of its cause and t-f its.r.licy. Evidently the first
ses. to the ground, and all be arranged according to their
Que le vice fait naitre aux Armes vertuen
of these interests is the maintenance of the union, the
neither medians wishes, How, he would ask, had that prediction been
The Prince of.Moskowa--There are
firm and compact action of the majority which sustains
accomplished? The bishops, after having- protested
r complaisans here.
that policy. With an anxiety for that interest, I have no •
here. against the law that had been brought forward, remained
M• Cousin—There is no hatred
refused all discussion, all retrograde explanation with M. ' -the xi echans, the haters silent
• s , and the mass of the clergy followed their example.
Mole —You should name I
respect to old and distant disagreements. I will act in K '
Was the Church at present more respected? Unfortu-
Name them,
the same manner to-day, and to a certainty I have the
M. Guizot—Allow me to finish. You do not know nately facts were there before them to prove the con-
right to do so more to-day than ever. Let us lay aside
h I ' 'to say No one can suppose that I trary This silence was replied to on the part of their
all petty personal complications, and let us arrive at w alt am going Y
. adversaries the. meaning of - : -
yof ourl, enemiesby demonstrations more and more hostile in cha.-
he polic
onco at the really public policy—the affairs of the court- .1'
athp'Y trodst of Afoliere,..and I ask for hatred for no person. racter • nothing , not i was spared or respected, neither the
try. -The Hon. Count Mole admits, at bottom, the whole Ihe Wee intention of making any personal application. Ceremonies of worship, nor the lessons in theology, nor
av no .
of the policy of the Cabinet. Ho' wishes for peace=heit is not in this assembly, but outsidthe the 'pious d • th
clergy nor their devotions, e
If hatred exists,e morals of

;-•
t ss-eeeaA'aLis'igi
inexhamaible-resources, the:charity ofthatast e-
nor, above all, the different religious co , error had been fallen into, and which was
in, ,ecitT4.
that the clergy alone were interested
of education,.wh .reas it was the laity, it was the citizens rho Were.rnore interested in it than the priesthood. The
independence of the clergy was the best guarantee for the
citizen. It was pretended that the liberty of the church,
as it was. understood by them, would be the continued
eneroachment of the spiritual over the temporal power.
At an epoch- like this-at a moment when in Switzer-
land, in !lassie, in Peland, and in Spain, the spoliation
of the'clinrch was beitig canded on, and it ass compelled
to defend its dogmas—when the greatest liberty in Pro-
testant countries, such as Holland and England, was
formed in the midst of so many dangers and storms—to
affect thus to fear, not the encrischrnent of that old in-
structress of nations, but its aristecrsey, its absolute
power, was indeed to give proof of eitheresta at ignorance
or of singular blindness. Far from favottring the triumph
of the spiritual over the temporal power, it was on the
contrary the Catholic doctrine which render d such a
thing impossible ; it was that which had at all times pro-
claimed the distinction of the two powers ; it was that
which commanded belie% era to render unto Oesar that
which was rmsar's, and tint God that which was God's.
To affect such fears was, he repeated, contrary to ,eOOl
sense. The Cathola clergy claims d its part, its legi-
timate part, in political liberty and common right,
the fruit of two revolutions ; it was under the shelter of
these great principles that it sought to ex, rcise its em-
pire over men's souls. He accepted the revolution as a
tact, liberty as a right, the charter as a safe-guard. This
is what they wished: What their adversaries Wanted
was the reverse of liberty and of the Constitution; :their
fall conviction : was that prosperity would avenge this
great injustice; it would admit, with some surprise; per-
haps,- but with gratitude, that all that was favourable
to liberty and human dignity, all that uas pure and
generous in the instincts o 1789 and 1830 had been de-
fended by Catholocism, and that the declaration of the
rights of man had not more ardent defenders than the
champions of thefaith.
The Chamber adjourned at half-past five.
SITTING OF TUESDAY, JAN. 14.
The President took the chair at two o'clock.
• The attendance of Peers and of the public was un-
usually great, and the Ministers were in their places.
Count de Montalembert resumed his discourse, left
unfinished the preceding day. He complained that there
seas-not a clearly recognised head of religion in Frame,
as there was of the army and the navy. Hence most deli-
cate and difficult questions were frequently referred to a
Minister who was but little calculated to resolve them.
The Hon. Peer proceeded to remark on several points
decided by the Minister, in his opinion erroneously.
,lie referred particularly to the favour shown to
Protestants in France, and compared it with the
manner in which Homan Catholics had been legis •
lated for ire England, particularly the Irish Catholics.
lie then referred to the quarrel which had lately arisen
between the University and the clergy in France, and
declared that mutual concessions ought to be made if the
diff,rences were- to be arranged. 11 hose to be made by
the Government must, however, be greater than on the
other side, since it had lately endeavoured to curtail that
freedom of religion sanctioned by the charter. This
could only have arisen from the fear the Government •
felt of the influence which the admirable conduct of the
clergy was sure to gain over the friends of the
.people.
He referred to past times, to the reign of Louis XV.,
and the periods following, to show that nothing was
ever demanded from the clergy of such importance as
was required at present. lie complained of the culum-
ties which, he declared, had been permitted, if not coun-
tenanced, by the favourers of the Universities, against
all classes of the clergy and the religious communi-
ties. He instanced a number of cases where severity
had been shown against the last-named associa-
tions. He referred to the conduct of M. Cousin when
in power, as having been far more liberal than that of
the. present Administration. He then adverted to the
present conduct of the clergy, to which he gave the
highest praise. He sketched the progress of religious
opinions in the public mind at present, and insisted
strongly on the extent of their advancement. Fourteen
years back the crosses were torn from the churches of
Paris, and every indignity offered to the ministers of
religion ; now, on the contrary, the churches were filled,
the public worship constantly attended, and the preachers
of the faith everywhere followed. He considered that
the present attacks on the church from the Government
were most undeserved. The Noble Peer concluded by
declaring that the clergy would still pursue their career
of charity and love in spite of any persecutions that
might-be-directed against them, and that if they gained
nothing else, they would obtain the respect and affection
of all men of worth.
M. Martin (du Nord), in fitly, declared that he dif-
fered from the Noble Peer on tire greatest portion of the
subjects to which he had adverted. So far from the
Government attacking or persecuting the clergy and re-
ligious associations, it had been obliged to stand on its
defence, and to incessantly oppose the attempts at total
independence entered on of late years by the clergy.
The conduct of the Government was the best answer to
such accusations, for he defied any man of candour to
say that it had gone beyond the exigencies of the case.
He maintained that the clergy were, to a certain extent,
abusing religion to carry out their own plans of tempo-
ral aggrandisement. He thought it most unjust that
noble orators should ascend the tribune every session to
make those vague accusations without proving any one
of them. The Hon. Minister then adverted to a num-
ber of cases, in which he had been obliged to inter-
fere to check the encroachments of all classes of the
clergy. He read extracts from letters written by
the inferior clergy to their diocesans, in order to
show the spirit which generally aninialied that body.
The bishops, he observed, though m7,l' of education,
were still above all, high dignitaries of the church, and
devoted to its interests. Hence they sanctioned,
to a considerable extent, the conduct of the inferior
clergy in various points of discipline. . lie could advert
to theitarefusal to bury in cases where the deceased per-
son had not lived according to their ideas of proper de-
votedness to the church. He could also speak of their
refusal to serve in private chapels, when required in
lawful cases. The Hon. Minister, after dwelling on
other points of this kind, declared that the clergy at
present appeared to altogether mistake its mission ; for,
in place of getting their champions to advocate their
cause in the Chambers—a defence required by their aim-
ing at power out of their own province—it would be more
suitable to their sacred functions to confine themselves
to their own duties, and not endeavour to assume an au-
thority which the law never intended to assign them.
On the part of the Government he could declare that
such conduct could none-permitted, and, however in-
clined the Government felt to concede to the clergy in
all reasonable points, it must continue to persevere in
its present line of conduct.
Count de Montalembert said, that when he defended
the cause of religion, he had not looked for the Hon.
Minister's approbation. He had spoken from an inti-
mate conviction of the truth of his essertions, lie
had not intended to accuse the Gov- rnment of direct
persecution of the ministers of religion ; he was aware
that the Government could not, with any appearance of
propriety, act openly and decidedly in the movement at
present in progress against the clergy ; but lie did ac-
cuse the lion. Minister and his colleagues of partaking
of a certain moral complicity in the attempt, by sanc-
tioning various persecutions against members of the
clergy and the religious communities of the kingdom.
He declared that several of the suits to which he alluded
had been carriedt frinn court to court with unusual se-
verity, and in that point the Government had kept up
all the movement of which he spoke.. He had not even
accused the Hon. Minister of having abandoned the
clergy—he had merely declared that he had not per-
mitted the religious liberty promised in the charter to
prevail to its legitimate extent. All that the clergy de-
sired or demanded was to have that liberty completely
established. The Government, he would maintain, had
done everything its their power to arrest. the free course
of religious freedom, and of that the clergy thought
they had a right to complain. The speech just delivered
by the Hon. Minister appeared to him likely to render
all arrangement in this matter mere than ever impos-
sible.-

Count Pelet (de la Lozere) spoke at sonic length
against the conduct pursued by the Minister of War in
the interval between the two sessions, relative to the
Polytechnic School. lie qualified such conduct as un-
justifiable,

- Marshal Soult entered into explanations on the stb-
ject. He maintained that with any attention to disci-
pline the conduct of the young men at that institution
could not be permitted. The Commission to whom the
matter was entrusted had come to that decision, and
such was he believed the opinion of all men who had
considered the subject. The Noble Marshal continued
for some time to lay before the Chamber the circum-
stanct s of the case, such as they have beon already
brought before the public. He insisted particularly on
the necessity of obedience in such an establishment.
Baron C. Dupin attacked the conduct of the NOble
Marshal in the affair in strong terms, declaring that he
had thrown doubt and distrust amongst the young men
of France, who could not now be certain, after years of
severe study, of not having their career stopped short by
some capricious decision of the Government. lie main-
tained that the conduct of the pupils in the late case was
justified by the examiner being given them contrar to
the regulations. y
Marshal Soult again ascended the tribune, but his ex-
planations differed little from those which he had already
given.
M. Laplagne Barris defended the conduct pursued by
the Noble Marshal, declaring that, though severity hindi
been shown, the exigencies of the case demanded
t. Count Moatalivet said that, as having been himself a
pupil of the Polytechnic School, he might be permitter,
to advocate the cause of the young men _who were inW
pated. No more generous-minded or patriotic class of
men could be found in the kingdom. He should, there-
fore, remind the Government that such a feeling ar, cle-
mency existed, and that in no case could it be better ex-
hibited than in the present one.
Count Pelet (de la Lozere) again ascended the tri-
bune, and was again examining the question under dis-
cussion.

(Left sitting.)

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