The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-24 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY MORNING, JULY 24, 1844.

wih convenience in those asylums. It would appear
that two moderate-sized asylums would be better than
ore laq,e one, and could be managed with greater ease.
The third class was that of private asylums, which re-
c'ived persons who paid their own expenses. In those
asylums a great number of persons were received who
said only 7s. and Bs. a week. It appeared that the
licensed houses were dirty and damp, and that the bed ling
was disgusting from the running of sores. The Noble
Lord instanced several houses which were in this state.
In the House of Industry in Kingaland, near Troubridge,
the same state of things existed. In the union of Red-
ruth, in Cornwall, there were forty-one insane persons,
and in the union at Birmingham there were no less
than seventy-one lunatics, and 3et the same system
was continued. To correct these evils there was
no remedy but the multiplication of county asylums.
They should also enact that all patients should be sent
into the asylum within a given time. Unless they did
that, other provisions would be useless, as all the reports
showed that the benefits arose from attending to the
disease medically before it became confirmed. It was
the general opinion of all the medical men that pauper
lunatics were sent into the asylums at so late a period of
the disease as to prevent, or, at all events, greatly to im-
pede, a cure. The regi'ters of the Retreat at York, and of
several other asylums, proved this fact. From the re-
gister of one of the asylums in Dorchester, it appeared
that of six patients that had been admitted at an
early period of the disease, in 1837, five had
been cured and dismissed within four months ;
and the sixth, although an old woman of 75, was con-
valescent. At St. Luke's they did not admit patients
who had been afflicted more than twelve months, and in
1842 the cures averaged 70 per cent., and
in 1843 they were as six to one. He had
written to the younger Dr. Sutherland on the
subject, and the reply was, that the cures were
all permanent ; for if a patient relapsed within three
months after his dismissal, he was re-admitted, not
as a new patient, but as a relapsed one. He
verily believed if they went to the expense of estab-
lishing asylums throughout the country for pauper
lunatics, although the outlay at the beginning
might be considerable, that the number of cures
that would be effected in ten years would more
those compensate far the expenditure. The report of
the Commissioners contemplated the erection of a suffi-
cient number of lunatic asylums throughout the
country, and they proposed that until those
asylums should be erected certain portions of
workhouses should be licensed for the admission
of pauper lunatics. He would now call the attention of I
the House to the state of Wales with respect to pauper
lunatics. In 1843 the number of Welsh pauper lunatics
was 1,176. Of these 36 were in English county asylums, 41
in licensed houses in England,9o in union workhouses, and
1,010 living with their friends. Many of these were in a
wretched condition. The Noble Lord here read several ex-
tracts from various documents to show the wretched state
in which many of the pauper lunatics in Wales were placed.
It might be said that there were good asylums at Bristol
and other places, to which the lunatics might be re-
moved. But in these asylums a cure was almost impossi-
ble, in consequence of the ignorance among most of
the patients of the English language. But wherever
the asylums might be, the whole course of their expe-
perience established the necessity of instituting and
maintaining a frequent visitation. By this they
were able to bring on them the influence of public
opinion, and by notoriety exposing parties to praise or
censure. Within the metropolitan districts thus vigil-
ance had generally been exercised ; but he could
not say the same of the provincial districts, unless
an exception could be made in some few of the
borough asylums. In general this duty had been shame-
fully neglected. It would be needless for him to detain
the House by enumerating facts that spoke for them-
selves ; for if the parties to whom the duty
of visitation had been entrusted had discharged
their office with but common vigilance, the Commis-
sioners would never have been able to have collected such
materials for the report that had been laid on the table.
He illustrated the good effects of frequent invisitation by
adducing the asylum of Dr. Warburton, at Bethnal-green.
which was one of the main subjects of the inquiry of the
Committee of 1826. There was an original sin in all
private asylums, because they must all be made
to yield a profit to the keeper. But Dr. War-
burton had done everything in his power to effect
improvements in the management. In 1828 no less than
200 of the patients were frequently restrained by chains
and leg-locks; but now out of 582 patients, only five were
under restraint, and that of the most moderate and ne-
cessary description. That was all instance of what
mignt be done by supervision and inspection. That
House possessed the means of remedy in its own hands.
Many persons might be restored to health who were now
suffering, and many might have their sufferings alle-
viated ; for they must not run away with the notion that
persons afflicted with lunacy were insensible to suffering.
On the contrary, they were painfully sensitive, and their
condition, on that account, appealed the more loudly,
not only to their highest feelings of justice, but to their
humanity and sensibility.—(Hear, hear.) It was a sub-
ject of the very highest importance, and he, therefore,
hoped the House would not consider he had wasted its
valuable time, when they called to mind that the motion
was made on behalf of the most helpless, if not the most
afflicted portion of the human race. The Noble Lord con-
cluded amidst loud cheers, by moving an address to the
Crown, praying her Majesty to take into her considera-
tion the report of the Metropolitan Commissioners in
Lunacy to the Lord Chancellor, and presented to this
House by command of her Majesty.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he was sure he was ex-
pressing the opinion, not only of the House, but of the
country, when he said that his Noble Friend not only
stood excused, but was deserving of the highest praise
for the pains which he took with regard to this subject.
The facts stated by his Noble Friend had shown the
utility of the power of inspection, which was given by
Act of Parliament a few years ago. His Noble Friend
had shown the result of this in the improved manage-
ment of asylums, when he stated that only five persons
out of 520 in one asylum were subject to restraint.—
(Hear, hear.) There was no difference of opinion on
the leading points to which his Noble Friend had ad-
verted. It could not be denied that persons who,
for the first time, exhibited symptoms of lunacy ought
to be subjected to the curative process, nor could it be
denied that it was inexpedient that incurables should
be mixed with those undergoing the curative process.
With regard to the lunatic poor in workhouses, the
time was not far distant when the Legislature must in-
terfere with regard to them. It was evident that
the cost of pauper lunatics under cure must be
much greater than the cost of the maintenance of
paupers in the workhouse. With regard to the
class of incurables, he did not imagine that the
charge for their maintenance could be much greater
than the charge for the maintenance of ordinary pau-
pers. He was satisfied that both subjects must come
under the consideration of the Government in a very
short space of time. In the course of the next session
the Government would most probably have to submit to
the House the whole question of the management of
pauper lunatics, Then, with regard to the question of
criminal lunatics, he believed that out of 140 criminal
lunatics 80 were maintained at the public expense either
li
in Bedlam, or in the county lunatic asylums ; and he
"as by no means prepared to contend that it might not
be proper that all criminal lunatics should be maintained
in central establishments at the public expense. That,
however, must be a matter for future consideration.
Those were the points on which be was favourable to
the views of his Noble Friend. There were other points
on which he hesitated. The report of the Commissioners
contained no less than twenty-five suggestions; they
were all of great importance, but before they were
adopted great caution and deliberation was necessary.
One of those suggestions was as to the compulsory re-
moval of lunatics, It was impossible to regard the ques•
tion abstractedly, and eases might exist in which it
would be desirable that secrecy on that point should not
be violated ; and therefore he entertained great doubt as
to the propriety of doing away with the keeping luna-
tics in private houses, Then with regard to the institu-
tion of small asylums there could not be a doubt but that
the expense of small asylums must be much greater than
the expense of large ones, and the question to be consi-
dered was, would the advantages to be derived from them
be equivalent to the additional expense ? He did not
wish to hold out any encouragement to the unnecessary
multiplication of small establishments. His Noble Friend
might rest assured that he was disposed to offer him
every assistance to the utmost of his power, lie had
directed the attention of the chairmen of quarter sea.
sions to the subject, and he had also directed the atten-
tion of the Poor-law Commissioners to the subject
of pauper lunatics. He was prepared to take
the subject under consideration, and he was aware that
next session the Government must present some al.=-
sure on it to the House. He hoped his Noble Friend
would not feel it necessary to press his motion for an ad-
dress. He could assure his Noble Friend, and the
House, that the question should receive from the execu-
tive Government every consideration that kindness, ha,
manity, and enlightened philanthropy could demand; he
could assure his Noble Friend that he was not at all dis-
posed to slumber on the subject; and he hoped, that on
the whole, his Noble Friend could not feel it necessary
to press his motion.
Mr. SHELL hoped the state of the lunatic paupers in
Ireland would not be forgotten by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman. He had been authentically informed that 300
of them were at present commingled among the people,
without care and without restraint—that was a great
public calamity, and should be redressed as soon as pos-
sible.(Hear, hear.) He was very happy to find that
the Right Hon. Gentleman was about bringing in a mea-
sure on the subject, and hoped Ireland would not be for-
gotten. The Noble Lord deserved the thanks of that
House and of the country ; he always exerted himself
cheerfully, and on most occasions effectually, and
his cheerful, earnest manner was to all good men most
gratifying. However Hon. Members might differ
politically, they must all admire the motives by which
the Noble Lord was actuated, motives which were of the
highest and purest kind.—(ffeer, hear, and cheers.) It
was more than gratifying to see inch a man, not de-
scending, but stooping from his high real. to perform
virtuous and humane actions, and to confer celebrity and
success on the cause in which he engaged.—(Hear.) It
must add new nobility to the name of Ashley, and make
humanity and Shaftesbury character;:stic.—(Loud heer)
Mr. WAICLEY said the report of the Commissioners
contained much valuable matter, and he thought tflat, ns
the Government had now ample materials for legisla-
tion, there was no Peed of a Commitee or further Par-
liamentary inquiry. He vvas satisfied that the Right
Hon. Gentleman felt convinced of the n2cessity of lessis-
.
latton on this subject, and hoped the measure tntsockice4
by the o(everninent would be one of permanent utility.
The Right Hon, Gentles:stun seemed to feel fully the force
of those recommendations which had been so wisely made
as to the difference of treatment between curable and 44-
p:11-able lunatics. The Hon. Gentleman then adverted to
th-34ct stated by the Commissioners in their report that
out of Ws', lunatics in Hanwell, only 30 were curable,
and conferred sigh Fectige on the manner in which the
establishment at Hanwell was ecin4cted. The first

THE SUN, LONDON

symptom of lunacy, a pain in the head, was among the
humbler classes entirely neglected ; and medical aid was
seldom resorted to until the insanity became confirmed.
He did not hesitate to say, that if a proper and timely
course of treatment were resorted to, there would not be
more than two-thirds of the present number of confirmed
lunatics.—(Hear, hear.) He condemned several pas-
sages of the Commissioners' report, as tending to create
an unfavourable and erroneous opinion of the mode of
treatment at Hanwell, and also that part of the report
which spoke lightly of that system, and so kindly of the
abettors by which and by whom those unfortunate de-
mented creatures were subjected to the most cruel treat-
ment. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by expressing a
hope that the Government measure would bring under
the surveillance of the inspectors those private asylums,
in which single lunatics were confined, and who, how-
ever harshly treated, could not be visited by the inspec-
tors under the present law.
Lord ELIOT, in answer to the question of Mr. Sheil,
was understood to say that the provisions of the pro-
posed measure would be extended to that country ; and
that a central asylum would be established for the
pauper lunatics there.
Mr. WYSE expressed his satisfaction at this informa-
.

tion.
Mr. VERNON SMITH wished to say a few words.
The manner in which the Noble Lord took up this sub-
ject did him the highest credit. They were all agreed as
to the necessity of early admitting paupers to asylums,
but the difficulty was that they had no power of com-
pelling the relatives of the lunatic to send him to the
asylum, and the parish officers did not wish, in that case,
to send him to the asylum. He hoped the Government
would turn their attention to the nest means of com-

pelting the relatives of a lunatic to send him to an asy-
lum. He agreed with the Noble Lord that they ought
to endeavour to prevent the extension of private asylums.
He knew that relatives were unwilling to have it known
that a relative of theirs was in a state of lunacy ; but if
they were more anxious for a cure than for their own
private feelings, they would rather send him to a public
asylum. He also agreed with the Noble Lord that the
lunatic asylums ought to be constructed for a limited
number of patients ; but there might be an hospital for
incurable patients on a large scale. But considerations
of expense met them at every turn of this question, and
the treatment of insane persons on the mild principle was
attended with greater expense than their treatment on
the severe system, and that was one of the reasons why
the mild system of treatment was not more generally
adopted. But they ought to have an exact definition of

what was mild treatment and what was severe treatment,

for there was a difference amongst medical men as to
what was mild treatment, and the extent to which it
ought to be carried. Another point was as to the fit-
ness of magistrates for visiting lunatic asylums. Now
he had no hesitation in saying that physicians and law-

yers would be much bette-r fitted for the purpose of vi-
siting than county magistrates, and this was casting no
reflection on the county magistrates, for they were not
professionally educated on the subject. This was a mat-
ter worthy of the attention of Government when they came
to legislate on this subject. With regard to the extension
of the powers of the Commission he thought that it
ought to be extended to Scotland more particularly, as
he had lately seen that about 120 lunatics were left
rovinc, about at large in the Island of Arran. This ap-
peared' on the testimony of Dr. Hutchinson, and it was a
state of things which ought to be inquired into. With
regard to the number of the Commissioners it would be
well to consider whether the present number was suffi-
cient. He was of opinion that paid Commissioners al-
ways performed their duty better than unpaid Commis-
sioners ; but on this subject he thought that a sufficient

number of persons could be got who would perform the
duties of Commissioners gratuitously.—(Laughter.)

They would not do so for —fame, for the persons for
whom they laboured had no tongues to speak for them-
selves. But his Noble Friend would not be without his

reward; for his efforts on behalf of the persons afflicted
with lunacy would bring their own reward. And, in-
deed, such persons sometimes displayed a sense of grati-
tude which sane persons would do well to imitate.
Mr. S. DAVIS made a few observations that were
totally inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. HAWES thought that the present was a subject
well worthy the attention of the Government, and he
was anxious to allude to one or two cases, in order that
the Right Hon. Baronet might consider them before
he brought the subject forward in the next session. The
Hon. Member then proceeded to state several cases in
different parts of the country where lunatics were
treated with great cruelty, kept in a state of filth, and
in many instances flogged till the blood run down their
backs. He thought that such a state of things ought
not any longer to be allowed to exist, and that some in-
quiry ought to be instituted on the subject.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN said that as the evil was
of such magnitude, and that a remedy was necessary, he
could not see why there should be a year's delay upon
the subject. He trusted the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer would enter upon the work forthwith.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought

that some plan ought to be laid before the Government,
before they could ask for any grant out of the public
money. He took as deep an interest in the subject as
any Hon. Member.
Sir DENHAM NORREYS did not see why the sub-
ject should not be considered and decided in the present
session.

Mr. GREENE denied that there was any idea of su-
perseding the jurisdiction of local magistrates with re-
spect to lunatic asylums by the Commission.
After some observations from Mr. GROGAN and Mr,
MORRIS,

Lord ASHLEY said that he felt the greatest gratifica.
tion at the
,manner in which his motion had been received

and after the assurance of the Right Hon. Baronet, that
he would consider the subject in the next session, he
should withdraw his motion.

The motion was consequently withdrawn.
GUERNSEY.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE then rose to make the motion of
which he had given notice, for copies of all dispatches
and correspondence that have passed between the Go-
vernment and the Lieutenant-Governor of Guernsey,
from the Ist day of April to the present time. He
thought there was something due to the people of
Guernsey in the shape of explanation. What the people
complained of was, that in April and May last, a great
force was landed on the island. Now, if ever there were
a loyal set of people, he believed it was the inhabitants
of Guernsey, and the adjacent islands. He had on a
former occasion asked the Right Hon. Baronet whether
that force had been sent from any apprehension on the
part of the Government, and the Right Hon. Baronet in
answer to that question, had stated that he felt it to be
his duty to send out the force, in consequence of the re-
presentations he had received from the Lieutenant-Go-
vernor of the island. The troops had now been with-
' drawn altogether, and he (Mr. Duncmnbe) was induced
to believe that the Government had had representations
made to them that were totally unfounded on fact, and
that, in short, they had been grossly imposed upon. It
appeared, that a clergyman, the Rev. Mr. Dobree, made
some representations to the Lieutenant-Governor, who
communicated it to the Government. By this repre-
sentation it appeared, that a gentleman named Moulin
died at the house of the Rev. Mr. Dobree, making to
the rev. gentleman, a confession before his death, to the
effect that he had been poisoned by some persons who
were confederates with him in a plot to murder the Go-
vernor, in consequence of his having resolved to reveal
the conspiracy. A military force was then dispatched
to Guernsey. A post mortem examination of the body
of Mr. Moulin had been in the mean time directed, and

the surgeons declared that there was no appearance
whatever of his having died by poison. An
investigation into the circumstances was ordered,
and the Royal Court sat for a considerable
number of days ; Mr. Dobree was examined, and, since
that inquiry, the troops had been withdrawn. But a
minor charge of sedition had been brought against three
individuals at the instance of the Crown, but they had
all three been honourably acquitted by the jury, and
the evidence of Mr. Dobree proved to be totally un-
worthy of credit. It had been the custom of the mili-
tia of that island to join with the regular troops in
celebrating the birthday of her Majesty. But in conse-
quence of these circumstances the usual celebration did
not take place, and the militia felt themselves greatly
aggrieved at the want of confidence expressed in them.
He thought it was due to them and the inhabitants that
the Government should lay every information before the
House and the public, by producing any correspondence
that had taken place between it and the Lieutenant-
Governor with reference to the alleged conspiracy. The
papers he should move for were those which related
only to the occasion for which the troops were dis-
patched. It was attended with great expense, which
would have to be provided for by the public in the next
year's estimates, and even on that ground he thought
the House was entitled to ask for these papers. It was,
above all, due to the loyal people of that island, in order
to allay the ill-feeling the proceeding might have caused
among them. He concluded by moving for the produc-
tion of the correspondence.
The question having been put,
Sir .TAMES GRAHAM said he was bound to ac-
knowledge that the Hon. Member had, on a former oc-
casion, postponed this motion at his request, and he
was sorry that he had thought it necessary
to bring it forward now. He had stated
on more than one occasion that of the loyalty of the
great body of the inhabitants of Guernsey and of their
attachment to the Crown, there could he no doubt. But
unhappily he did believe that a plot was formed against
the life of the Governor, which it was intended to carry
into execution on the anniversary of her Majesty s
birthday, when the militia were assembled. The
House was fully aware of the character of General
Napier, the Governor ; a man of gtrongpr nerve and
firmer mind could not exist, and he was not a person or
light grounds to entertain fears of this kind. He had
information from the Governor himself about ten days
before the anniversary of her Majesty's birthday, that
there was strong reason to believe an attempt would be
made to carry the object of the conspiracy into effect on
that day, and on that official information the troops were
sent. But that was hot all. An able legal officer, Mr.
Daniel, had been engaged in examining the evidence,
and he allowed that it warranted the supposition of the
existence of such a plot. It was quite true that no
parties had been put upon their trial for it, and' that
three persons had oniy ;4c(T tried upon the minor charge
of sedition. But he feared that furth legal proceed-
ings must still take place, and indeed they were still
pertdina7. While cases in immediate connection with the
administration of justice were thus pending, he thought
it would be in the highest degree indiscreet to produce
this correspondence, and he hoped therefore that the
Hon. Member would not press his motion, or, if it should
be pi,eszed, hp should feel it his duty to refuse the papers
asked eor.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said, if judicial proceedings werft
still pending in The island, hp certainly should not press
ti 6 taajc,n, as it would be improper to do so. But the
Right lion. Baronet would permit him ty say; tbqi his
declaration would cause great grief and dissatisfaction in
the island. There was not an individual there on whom
the Government could lay its finger in suspicion. It all

turned upon this, did the Go'eninent place the slightest
credit in the statement of Mr. Dcbree ? Hit did, it was

evident from the proceedings of the Royal Court that
Mr. Dobree was unworthy of credit. In fact, he ap-
peared to be more fit for one of those asylums they had
been discussing that evening, clan for the position he
held in the Church. He was lot only in the habit of
saying that there was a plot to shoot the Governor, but
that there was a plot to shoot Limself. They only had
his word for the confession he mid he had received from

Mr. Moulin. He was in the habit of shutting himself
up in the church, nailing down the windows, and pass-
ing the night there. He would also wrap the union jack
round the pulpit, and then say he had no fear, as he was
under the protection of the British flag. He did not be-
lieve there was the slightest foundation for the supposi-
tion of a conspiracy.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the Hon. Gentleman assumed
that the Government rested wholly on the statement of
the reverend gentleman he had mentioned. But the fact

was not so. It relied in the first instance on the deli-

berate opinion of the Lieutenant-Governor, General
Napier, and further, on the additional evidence that had

. -
been submitted to him, and sifted by Mr. Daniel.
• Mr. HUME regretted the declaration that had been
made by the Right Hon. Secretary of State. He thought
that General Napier was under a delusion, and had taken
the statement of Mr. Dobree a 2 well founded. The loyal
people of Guernsey ought not to suffer from the con-
tinuation of such a charge.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he did not entertain the slight-
est doubt of the loyalty of the great majority of the in-
habitants, but he did believe that in some small body of
them such a plot was formed.
Mr. AGLIONBY said the misfortune of such dis-

cussions as these was, that they produced unsatisfactory
statements on both sides. If any proceedings were pend-
ing, it was of great importance that they should be
expedited.
The motion was then withdrawn.
QUARANTINE LAWS.
Dr. BOWRING then brought forward his motion,
calling the attention of the House to the state of the
quarantine laws, and the necessity and security of great
modifications therein. He said he did not bring forward
the subject in any angry or bitter feeling towards the
Government ; and proceeded to state that the regulations
ox this sabject had existed for four hundred years, as
they dated from the year 1440 ; the amount of human
misery and suffering they had caused since that time was
inconceivable. The present quarantine law of this
country was the 6th of Geo. IV. c. 613, which imposed
the severest penalties on the -masters of vessels not com-
plying with the requlations of the Act. The regulations
respecting this matter were very stringent, and, as he
thought, unnecessarily so. It had been proved that the

plague was not latent in the human body for more than
fifteen days at the utmost. Any Hon. Gentleman who
had visited the Ottoman empire must have seen that so
far from a stringent system of quarantine stopping the
spread of the plague, the lazarettos were the means of
extending it. The plegue, like most other pestilential
and dangerous diseases, owed its intensity to the same
accessories as other diseases, namely, to a want of
drainage, ventilation, &c. When he was in Egypt his
attention was called to the fact that in the

places where the plague broke out with the
most violence, on the removal of the persons
afflicted to the open desert, it almost immediately ceased.
In many parts of Egypt the plague was not found at all.

Our quarantine regulations were based on a strange
principle. Articles which were liable to quarantine were
divided into two classes—susceptible and nonsusceptible.
Of these which were deemed susceptible, woollen, silk,
cotton, linen, and paper were the principal. ' Now, some
time ago he had moved for a return of the number of
persons who had died on board our lazzarettos in conse-
quence of handling such articles as those he had men-
tioned. That return was nil, and yet we still main-
tained a strict and severe system of quarantine laws,
which were not beneficial, and which would never have
the effect of checking the spread of disease, but, on the
contrary, were calculated to increase it, The mainte-
nance of this system of quarantine laws was only a sub-
mission to an old prejudice which, he believed,
would, in a few years pass away, as the
belief in witchcraft had done before. As long
ago as 1720, Dr. Brown, in his controversy
with Dr. Mead, challenged him to state a single case
in which plague would be communicated by merchan-
dise. The Hon. Member then referred to other authori-
ties in support of the same view. It was notorious that
when a plague in the East had ceased, the garments of
those who had been infected were sold in the public
bazaars ; and in no case he believed did they fetch less
than other clothes on account of that circumstance. A
great number of plague garments had been introduced
even into this country, but no evil consequences had fol-
lowed from it.--(Hear, hear.) There were regulations of
all kinds with regard to plague, but those which most
affected them were sea regulations. After a long pas-
sage, a vessel was delivered over to quarantine, and a great
and inconvenient delay occurred. There were no countries
where there was a greater trade in contraband goods than
those who were subject to the plague ; and very fre-
quently the quarantine regulations were made the in-
strument of carrying on smuggling. The introduction
of quarantines in the East had had no effect in pre-
venting plagues. It would be wearisome to repeat the
idle stories which were circulated as to the contagious-
ness of plague ; such as that isolated houses were at-

tacked, and all the inhabitants died in consequence. The
simple fact was, that if the system were not connected
with certain pecuniary interests, it would long ago have
been abolished. The Hon. Member concluded by moving
a resolution as to the necessity of urging on foreign Go
vernments increased relaxation in their laws of qua-
rantine.
Mr. GLADSTONE said there was not enough in con-
troversy between himself and the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman to make it necessary that he should oc-
cupy a great deal of time. The resolution called on the
House to recommend that foreign Governments should
proceed with relaxations of the quarantine system.
This was only consistent with the course which the
Government had hitherto pursued. They had taken
two steps—one was to introduce into their own ports all
the relaxation which they thought expedient, and the
other was to renew the attempt of their predecessors to
induce foreign Powers to pursue a similar course. It did
not necessarily follow that they should give full scope to
the opinions which they entertained on this subject,
lest the effect should be to produce a reaction
on the part of foreign Powers, and to pro.
yoke them to impose new restrictions on trade.—(Hear.)
They had not yet arrived at a state of things in which
anything like unanimity could be said to prevail upon the
great.question whether or not plague was communicable
by contagion. The majority of opinions still inclined to
the affirmative. But then, on the other hand, all the
relaxations hitherto made had been found safe and
satisfactory in their operation, and this encouraged them
to persevere in applying the principle of freedom from
restriction. With respect to the system of quarantine
which prevailed in this country, a very important relaxa-
tion had been introduced by her Majesty's Government
in the exercise of the powers of the Act of George the
Third ; the Order in Council having been pub-
lished in September last, which materially reduced
the time for which ships, both as regarded car-
goes and persons, were required to undergo qua-
rantine. At present our system of quarantine
was less strict than that of the other great Mediterra-
nean Powers. With regard to ships having clean bills of
health, the present regulation of the United Kingdom
was that goods underwent a quarantine of fifteen days
and persons five; for suspected bills, goods from twenty-
five to thirty days, and persons eight. In the Austrian
ports, ships with clean bills underwent a quarantine of
twenty-one days for cargoes, for persons ten ; suspected
bills, cargoes twenty-two days, persons eighteen ; foul
bills, cargoes twenty-two, persons twenty-eight. This
country had invited France and Austria to a congress on
the subject, and had received from both a favourable
reply. Some delay would necessarily take place before
any definitive step could be taken ; but he was sanguine
in the hope that, before Parliament met again, it might be
in their power to adopt some measure for the purpose of
bringing the representatives of those great Powers into
conference with those of this country on the subject
of the further relaxation of the quarantine laws.
He was not aware that he could state any more on that
part of the subject. The Government was fully alive to
its importance, but they were of opinion that more would
be lost than would be gained by the adoption of any
precipitate step.
Mr. HUME was sure the country would be gratified
by the communication of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
He had regretted that no step had been taken on this
subject in 1814, but he thought the evidence in favour of
relaxation which could be produced before the Con-
gress was much stronger now than it could have been
then. He recollected that when Sir Thomas Maitland
had relaxed the quarantine regulations much greater re-
strictions had been placed upon our shipping in Italian
ports in consequence, and he thought the Right Hon.
Gentleman was right in not being too precipitate. He
approved of the conduct of the Government, and
believed they had done everything that could be done.
The motion was then agreed to.
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.
Dr. BOWRING postponed the motion of which he
had given notice, on the subject of the public accounts,
until next session.
RECIPROCITY TREATY WITH RUSSIA.

Mr. WAWN moved for a statement of the equiva-
lent advantages, if any, which have been granted to
British navigation by the Russian Government, in COB'
sideration of the exemptions conceded by her Majesty's
Government to Russian ships, by the second separate
article of the treaty of St. Petersburgh, of the 11th day
of January, 1843, which reserves to Russian vessels
" the exemption from navigation dues during the first
three years, which is enjoyed by vessels built in Russia,
and belonging to Russian sulljects." The advantages
conceded by that article of the treaty to Russia, gave
Russian shipowners a great advantage over English
shipowners—an advantage equivalent at least to five per
British ship entering a Russian port was plocpd
under many disadvantages. The ship's provisions were
all placed under seal, and the captain was not allowed to
use his own provisions without a license from the autho-
rities. If he applied to his Consul for a remedy, the
Consul told him that he could afford him no relief i
whereas, if a Russian captain complained to his Consul
in a British port of any grievanee, immediate redress
was afforded him. He wished to ask what advantages
wcre given by the treaty to British ships which Russian
slips 'did nett enjoy, which could be considered as
an equivalent to the advantages thus given to Riisian
ships ?
Mr. GLADSTONE thought the Ron. Gentleman
could not be much in the habit of examining treaties of
navigation between different countries, and their modes of
operation, or he would not have been surprised at this
prixticular case ; and he would advise Of; Hop. Guftlo
tnan not to provoke others to too close and prying Li in-
v'eStig'afieri of these treatieS. ' He I'vbuld 'note go into the
particulars of our navigation laws, but 'Would at once
answer the lion. Gentieni4als ituestiou. it ii d boea the
custom, in making treaties with other countries,
tIP; im-sreantita marine )f which was not in so

advanced a state as our own, to admit
.of cer-
tain relaxations, which we did not claimfor ottrselves
for instance in the treaties with many of the South Ame-
rican States, while no vessels could claim from them the
reciprocity granted to vessels under the Biita unless
they were owned and navigated in conformity with the
navigation laws, the benefits of the reciprocity were al-
lowed to vessels belonging to those States, in British
ports, although it might not be owned and navigated ac-
cording to the navigation laws. This showed that it was
no new practice. Now, with regard to-the question, he
would at once state that an advantage was conceded to

British vessels which Russian vessels did not possess,

and which was an equivalent for those advantages
to which the Hon. Gentleman alluded. Russia

granted to us, that British vessels coming from third
countries, and entering Russian ports, should be treated
if they came from British ports. Now that, he consi •
dered, was more than a counteracting advantage to the
exemption from dues for the first three years. If that
exemption had been granted to Denmark, Sweden, Hol-
land, or any country nearly on a level with ourselves in
point of maritime power, the advantage would have been
a great one, but it was not in this instance more than a
counterpoise for the advantages granted to us. With re-
gard to the grievances of British shipowners in Russian
ports—if those grievances were represented to the Go-
vernment—and it should turn out that they were deviators
from the treaty, the British Government would make
representations to the Russian Government on the' sub-
ject. No such complaints, however, had been made.
There was a case relating to the Customs dues on her-

rings, in which it was alleged that greater advantages
were given to Norway and Denmark than were given to
England, which was at present the subject of negotia-
tion between the two Governments. He was not aware,

with respect to the navigation treaty, that the Russian
Government had given any cause of complaint, and he

could not accede to the motion.

Mr. HUTT thought that the admitting British vessels
from third ports on the same footing as those from Bri-
tish ports might be considered as an equivalent. With
regard to the other subject, he could assure the Right
Hon. Gentleman that the grievance existed, and he had

no doubt but that he would have kis attention called to it
next session.

Mr. HUME was of opinion that by the treaty we had
the means of obtaining redress of the grievances com-
plained of. He was glad to hear of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman speak of herrings, and he hoped our exporters
would be relieved from the burden of these dues without

delay.
Mr. GLADSTONE had no cause to complain of delay
on the part of the Russian Government. It was only
six weeks ago that he himself had received the com-
plaints of the herring exporters.
Mr. WAWN then withdrew his motion.

CASE OF MR. O'DRISCOLL.

Mr. ROSS moved that " an humble address be pre-
sented to her Majesty, praying for the removal of Mr.
Alexander O'Driscoll from the Commission of the
peace." It was very distasteful to his feelings to appear
before that House as a public accuser, to impugn a man
for whom he entertained in general the greatest respect.
It was an unenviable task to be called upon to accuse a
gentleman far advanced in years, infirm in health, and
subject to a malady which, beyond all others, was cal-
culated to cloud the intellect and injure the temper.
These defects were considered sufficient cause for his
dismissal, and they still remained.—(Hear, hear.) Of
Mr. O'Driscoll he (Mr. Rbss) knew nothing until his
connection with these circumstances, and he hoped the
House would do him the justice to believe that no con-
sideration of a party nature would induce him to prefer
a charge against an innocent man, or one whose guilt
was even a matter of doubt. The Noble Lord opposite
(Lord Eliot) had, on a previous occasion, rebuked him
(Mr. Ross) because he ventured to say the conduct of Mr.
O'Driscoll towards his fellow-magistrates was insolent,
and his treatment of the Sullivans tyrannical ; but he
sat down without convincing the House that the conduct
of Mr. O'Driscoll towards the Sullivans, Dempsey, and
Dineen was in the highest degree tyrannical. A man
named Dineen, in the first instance, complained to the
Lord Chancellor under these circumstances :—A person
named Sullivan, a tenant of Mr. O'Driscoll's, had fallen
into a small arrear of rent, half-a-year's, for which he had
passed his bill to Mr. O'Driscoll. Another half-year had
not quite fallen duewhen Hurley, Mr. O'Driscoll's driver,
entered poor Sullivan's farm, and distrained everything
upon it—the cow, the ass, and even the potatoes ; yes,
even the very potatoes upon which the wretched family
depended, and which, according to the testimony of
Hurley, they were afterwards obliged to steal. But,
what was the fact at the very time O'Driscoll's
driver had made this seizure on poor Sullivan ?—he had
actually the money for the bill in his pocket. Sullivan's
13;11 was cashed for O'Driscoll, at the bank, the other
half-year's rent was not due, and yet this cruel distraint
was made. Sullivan was thrown on the world a house-
less and a desperate man. In the distraint the cows of
poor Dineen, which chanced to have been in Sullivan's
farm, were driven away too. Dineen applied for
them, but was refused. A rescue took place,
which Dineen did all in his power to prevent,
but Mr. O'Driscoll, conceiving that Dineen was instru-
mental in it, summoned him to his own house. The
Bible was put into his hand ; but he refused to disclose
the names of those who were engaged in the rescue.
He was sent before another magistrate, but persisted in
his refusal. The magistrate, without warrant or com-
mitment, had him incarcerated in the county gaol. Poor
Dineen, after having lain for four days in prison, was
brought before the bench of magistrates, who again
committed him for persevering in his refusal. Soon
after the case of Dineen was laid before the Lord Chan-
cellor another case against Mr. O'Driscoll occurred, and
that was the case of the boy Dempsey. Mr. O'Driscoll
was out hunting, and hearing a shot fired, supposed that
poachers were on his land. He saw two or three little
boys, who, on his riding towards them, ran away. He
pursued one of the boys to the house of a poor woman,
the boy having taken refuge therein. Mr. O'Driscoll
got the boy out, and inflicted a severe castigation upon
him. The case was brought before Mr. O'Driscoll's
fibrotherieted
afine
magistrates,
neenmr. who, having
40s. Upon
hcehaarrigneg,
in
the decision of the bench, Mr. O'Driscoll said that he
had been unjustly dealt with, and that, if it had been
tahnayn othersa! peUrson
thtiha e e
ofianfea
swi
noau
al dr
shea bin een
nnuortt
,maonr
de
the magistrates remonstrated with Mr. O'Driscoll, who
refused to apologise to the court until he was advised to
do so by a friend, and he then reluctantly apologised.
In consequence of this the Lord Chancellor very pro-
perly removed him from the bench. Some months
rolled on, and, upon a memorial being addressed to the
Lord Chancellor, Mr. o,Driscoll was reinstated to the
bench. These were dangerous times in which to tamper
with the administration of justice in Ireland. The
Government, however, seemed desirous of promoting
those who were the most unpopular in Ireland. On a
late ocecasion they had advanced a Mr. O'Brien to the
bench, who was most obnoxious in Ireland, in conse-
quence of his virulent attacks upon the person who was
the idol of the people of that country.
Mr. D. BROWN seconded the motion. Was the re-
storation of Mr. O'Driscoll calculated to give peace to
Ireland or satisfaction to any well-thinking individual,
whatever his politics might be? It had been said by the
Government thatahey intended to govern Ireland on the
principles of conciliation. Was the restoration of Mr.
O'Driscoll calculated to produce such conciliation? The
people of Ireland had justly come to the conclusion, from
the violence of the acts of Mr. O'Driseoll, that he was
mad, and that he was restored to the bench either as a
criminal or madman.—(Hear, hear.) They had been
told in another place that that House had no right to in-
terfere with the act of the Lord Chancellor o! Ireland
as it was a judicial act. Now he would venture to say that
it was no such thing, but that it was a ministerial act
and one with which that House had a right to deal.
Lord ELIOT was very far from denying that there
were cases under which that House would address the
Crown to remove magistrates and justices of the peace ;
but ,he thought when a Member of that House called
upon it to interfere with the prerogative of the Crown,
exercised by its highest officer, the Lord Chancellor of
Ireland, he should be able to show that it had been ex-
ercised improperly or corruptly. He believed that those
who knew his Right Hon. Friend, the Lord Chancellor
of Ireland, would admit that in no instance he had acted
without mature deliberation, and that it was quite im-
possible that he could be actuated by unjust motives.
He did not intend to be the apologist of Mr. O'Driscoll ;
on the contrary he thought that the acts for which he
was removed from the bench were highly blameable.—
(Hear, hear.) But, having admitted that, the Hon.
Member would permit him a little to soften the colour-
ing of the picture that had been painted to them, and he
would allow him to sate the facts, as they appeared to
have been, from these papers. He should not go into
the case of the Sullivans, because that was not brought
before the Lord Chancellor. With respect to the case
of the boy Dempsey, he did not mean to defend the con-
duct of Mr. O'Driscoll; he thought he was perfectly un-
justifiable in striking and beating the boy ; but he ap-
peared to have been much provoked, and it did
not seem to have been a very aggravated assault.
The boy himself did not wish to prefer any complaint,
nor were there any bruises or blood, or any appearance
of his having been severely beaten.---(lronical cheers.)
Surely the feelings of Bon. Gentleman would not
influence them so far as to make them draw no dis-
tinction. It appeared from the evidence that he struck
the boy two or three blows on the body with his whip,
but Mr. O'Driscoll himself declared on his word
of honour as a gentleman, that he only struck him
once. This charge was beard before the magistrates,
and Mr. O'Driscoll was fined 40s. against which he re-
monstrated in very unbecoming terms.—(Hear, hear.)
But it should be remembered that he afterwards apolo-
gised for it, and though it had been stated that he did so
in an ungracious Teener, yet that apology was received
by his brother magistrates, and they were among the
persons who signed the memorial to the Lot--Lieu-
tenant for his restoration. Upon the whole of this case
the Lord Chancellor of Ireland did think it his duty to
remove Mr. O'Driscoll from the bench, but he did not
think the Hon. Gentleman had stated altogether fairly
what had occurred. The Lord Chancellor expressly
said that it was upon the whole of the case taken to-
gether that he displaced him, alleging that, " at pre-
sent," Mr. O'Discroll did not appear to have sufficient
command of his temper to retain a seat on the bench.
He stated he was advanced in years, and had recently
been in bad health; he therefore thought it Advisable
that he should retire. Things stood thus from November
till the month of June, when the memorial praying for
his restoration was presented, the memorialists aller,mg
that Mr. O'Driscoll was Clew strong and active, and as
sound in his uaderstanding as they had ever known him.
Mr. O'Driscoll was a gentleman entirely unconnected
with
a
gentlemanwethy
loirrinpgown,:rful family ; neverthelees
was ire
his estate; and who dispensed
hospitality to hiS neigbbours liberally. He had been a
niagistrate for thirty yar4, and his integritY had =AMA'
been impugned,
Mr. MORE n'IrpRRALL thought the Noble Lord
had not shOwn a single ground for the restoration of
Mr. O'Driscoll. The Noble Lord doubtless wished to
throw the responsibility of that step upon the Lord

Chancellor of Ireland. He (Mr. M. O'Ferrall), would
say that no man had ever held office in Ireland who was
more entitled to respect and confidence than
the Lord Chancellor of Ireland. But it must
be recollected that the Lord Chancellor went to Ireland

with English notions. He looked upon the magistracy of
that country in the same light as the magistracy in this.
Every Irishman, however, knew that from the magis-
tracy of Ireland had arisen many of those crimes'which
Parliament was called on every year to repress. He
(Mr. O'F.) would venture to say that there was no Hon.
Gentleman sitting on the other side of the House, look-
ing to the bearing of this case on the administration of
justice in Ireland, who would say that the Noble Lord
had shown good grounds for the restoration of Mr.
O'Driscoll. He (Mr. O'Ferrall) had often been asked
what was the cause of the existing state of Ireland. His
answer to this inquiry would be, take the case of Mr.
O'Driscoll as a portion of that cause. It was
this sort of thing that cause combinations and
the use of unlawful oaths. The peasantry bound them-
selves together as the only means of resisting tyranny.
Such cases as that of Dineen and Sullivan, were common
all over Ireland, and hence arose illegal combinations.
A Government that wished to do away with illegal com-
binations would do away with its causes. They would
enforce the laws vigorously and properly equally in the
case of the rich and the poor.—(Hear, hear.) Had the
Noble Lord shown any mitigating circumstances in the
case of Mr. O'Driscoll he would not have pressed hard
upon an individual arrived at such an advanced stage of
life ; but he had not done so. What did his friends
the Conservatives say of him ? Why, that though a
Roman Catholic, he was a loyal man.—(" Hear, hear,"
from the Opposition.) Why a person who would seek
such support as that would be the basest of men. The
words were, " Though a Roman Catholic, never con-
cealing nor affecting to conceal his sentiments, he was
nevertheless looked upon by those of his own creed and
others as a man of unswerving rectitude." They had
no reason to regret their reliance on his rectitude, since
it had always been shown by enforcing the laws most
severely against Roman Catholics.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was anxious to address a
few words to the House on this subject. In the first
place, he begged to remark that they were not then trying
the question whether Mr. O'Driscoll was a good or a
bad landlord ; neither were they then trying the ques-
tion what were his religion and politics. The question
then under discussion lay in a very narrow compass.
He agreed that theconduct which led to Mr.:o'Driscoll's
removal from the commission of the peace was, in the
main, indefensible. He thought that both with reference to
the committal of a person without a warrant, in whose case
ho had a personal interest, and still more in speaking in
discourteous terms of the sentence of the bench; the
Lord Chancellor had acted wisely in dismissing him
from the commission.—(Hear, hear.) But now he
begged the House to consider that the removal of a ma-
gistrate from the bench in Ireland might be of a two-
foldcharacter—it might either be judicial, with reference
to his conduct as a magistrate, or it might be ministerial,
After having had the advantages of personal intercourse
with the Lord Chancellor, he was able to state that his
decision was entirely judicial. He entirely sympathised
in the compliments which had been paid to his Right
Hon. Friend Sir Edward Sugden. He thought he might
apply to him the lines of one of our poets in reference to
a judge of his own day
In Israel's courts ne'er sat an Abethdin,
With more discerning eyes or hands more clean;
Unbribed, unsought, the wretched to redress,
Swift to dispatch, and easy of access."
This he held to be a just and correct description of the
character of Sir Edward Sugden. He was sure a more
just or able judge never presided. Now, he said again,
that in this matter Sir Edward Sugden acted judicially,
and he assured him (Sir J. Graham) his duty was never
performed with more doubt, pain, or hesitation, than
in the removal of Mr. O'Driscoll. He said that if he
had considered any one of the acts which were indefen-
sible singly he should not have thought his removal
justified; but that taking all the cases collectively, he
thought his removal necessary. This gentleman bcire
an unsullied private character, although he had been
visited with displeasure on account of some violent,
intemperate acts, and disgrace having been once in-
flicted, he did not see why it should be co-extensive with
life. He thought that, considering all the circumstances
of the case, the House ought to hesitate before it passed
its sentence upon the Lord Chancellor of Ireland. He
considered it of the highest importance to conciliate the
affections of the people of Ireland towards the adminis-
tration of justicsein that country ; and he was also of
opinion that this question was not unworthy the atten-
tion of the House.—(Hear, hear.) It was right that the
Government should be put upon its defence for restoring
a magistrate under such circumstances.—(Hear, hear.)
He felt satisfied in his conscience that the Lord Chan-
cellor had not acted improperly, and he should oppose
this motion, believing, as he did, that it was intended as
a vote of censure upon the Lord Chancellor's conduct.—
(Hear, hear.) He could not as a member of the Go-
vernment shrink from the responsibility of this act of
the Lord Chancellor, for, after having given the matter
the fullest investigation and consideration, he was pre-
pared to adopt that act.—(Cheers.) On the whole, he
thought that the removal of Mr. Driscoll from the com-
mission of the peace in the first instance was right, and
after he had suffered his punishment, and, after the
representations which had been made in his favour, he
was equally of opinion that the Lord Chancellor was
justified in restoring him.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr SHELL said that the Right Hon. Gentlema the
Secretary of State for the Home Department, had ex
pressed his most high and
.extreme solicitude for the
impartial administration of justice in Ireland. He
would not dispute the sincerity of the Right Hon.
Gentleman's professions ; but he regretted that the
Right Hon. Gentleman had not adopted a more effica-
cious mode of giving expression to his solicitude.—
(Hear, hear.) Neither had the Right Hon. Gentleman
been peculiarly felicitous in his reference to Dryden's
description of an eminent judge. No doubt, Ashley
Cooper had been a most incorruptible judge, but he was
also a most incomprehensible politician, and the man of
all others the worst who could have been permitted to
interfere with the appointment of magistrates, had such
been a portion of the duties of Lord Chancellors in his
time.—(Hear, hear.) But it appeared that, in dismissing
Mr. O'Driscoll, the Lord Chancellor had not acted in his
political capacity—he had acted in his judicial capacity.
In what capacity had he acted when he dismised the
repeal magistrates ?—(Cheers.) Was it in his political or
in his judicial capacity that the Lord Chancellor had
removed his Hon. Friend the Member for Mayo, his
Hon. Friend the Member tier Kerry, and Mr. Roche,
the Member for Cork ?—(Loud cheers.) Why had they
been dismissed ? Not for attending monster mpetings—
oh, no !—(Loud cheers)—hut for attending dinners to
protest against the packing of a Protestant J
' fury,—(Loud
cheers.) Oh ! but, said the Right Hon, Gentleman, he
was not acting in his political capacity in dismissing Mr.
O'Driscoll ; that case had nothing to do with politics.
Why, in its results, it was entirely political. What did
they say to the political part of the question when Mr.
O'Driscoll set forth in his memorial that, although he
was a Catholic, he was a Conservative ?—when he gave
a prominence to the fact of his being a Conservative, and
stated that h e had refused to stand for the county, although
the Bishop had offered it him, as if the Bishop held the
keys of the county as well:as the keys of St. Peter?—
(Cheers and laughter.) He had refused—(Renewed
cheering)—" even though a Catholic."—(Cheers.)
It was said that in this case the Lord Chancellor had
acted in his judicial, and not in his ministerial, by which
was meant his political, capacity. Now it had been often
said that the political and the judicial capacities of the
Lord Chancellor of Ireland were so indistinct that it was
to be wished that they were separated ; and certainly no
set of functions could be more dissimilar. The Lord
Chancellor was in general a great lawyer, but the sphere
of his vision was confined to the horizon of a con-
veyancer's office, and when he launched upon the Irish
sea of political agitation he steered his course by
the scintilla juris, the light of lawyers.—(Cheers.)
And accordingly they found that the Lord Chancellor,
although an admirable judge, and in that capacity de-
serving of the highest praise, exhibiting on the bench a
great knowledge of the law and a passion for justice, yet
they no sooner find him appearing in his political capacity
than he,_ who as a judge was temperate, judicious, and for-
tunate, became as a politician precipitate, inconsistent,
and ominous.—(Loud cheers,) He was surprised that the
conduct of Mr. O'Driscoll should be palliated by that
Government by which the Landlord and Tenant Com-
mission had been issued. Oh 1 but it was said the
conduct'of O'Driscoll as a landlord was nothing to the
purpose. Why, if' they were not bound to remove him
from the commission of the peace, as a bad landlord,
when the Chancellor came to take a retrospect, and to
consider the propriety of restoring him, ought he not to
have asked himself—shall I entrust this man with the
administration of justice between landlord and tenant ?
—(Cheers.) Now, what was the case of O'Driscoll as
a landlord ? The Secretary of State for the Home De-
partment admitted that his conduct was indefensible, and
yet when he said that his conduct was indefensible,
he could urge nothing in extenuation of it, though he
entirely approved of the conduct of the Lord Chancellor
of Ireland, and adopted his acts.—(Loud cheers.) lie
adopted a measure which he said he could not defend.—
(Loud cheers.) But what was the conduct of O'Dris-
coil as a landlord ? He seized Sullivan's potatoes. Ba-
the law of the laud a smith cannot be deprived
of his anvil, nor a labourer of his plough—he
Could not be deprived of his means of living ; yet
by the law of Ireland the landlord might dry
up the esculent on which the man's family de-
pended for existence. That might be just in
law, but was it not a circumstance to be considered in
restoring him to the magistracy? What did he do with
regard to O'Sullivan? He took the man into his own
parlour, put the Bible into his hand--and what hap-
pened? Oh, said the Noble Lord, it was, not Mr.
O'Driscoll, it was Mr. Galway who committed him.
Miserable subterfuge !—(Loud cheers.) It was not de-
nied that O'Driscoll accompanied the man to, Galway's
house, and personally committed him to Bridewell, anti
that without a warrant.—(Cheers.)
Lord ELIOT—No, no.
Mr. SHELL—Am I not right ?—(Cries of "Yes,
Les.") I knew I was ! Ido not wonder that the Noble
ord wishes to interrupt me ! The Hon. Gentleman
continued—lt was not denied that O'Driscoll, having the
mialißy for the rent in his pocket, had distrained for that
rent and deprived Sullivan's children of their meal,—
(Loud cheers.) Pending these transactions the affair
of the bay tools place. The Noble Lord said that the
bey was disturbing the sport and had fired at a hare.
Lord ELIOT—NO, nQi
Mr. SHEIL—,That was no matter—(lronical cheers)
—044 he would tell them why it was no matter, Be-
cause, it appeared from the memorial that both men and
boys were present, and that a shot was fired, O'pris-
cog did not NiColy a man and attempt to strike him ; if
)1e had done so; l trusted the man would have struck
huti i 0 the earth—(Loud cheers)—but he followed
a boy. The boy ran into his mother's house and crept
under a bed ; O'Driscoll ordered him to be brought out.
The woman dreaded to disobey. O'Driscoll went in to
drag him out, and how did he do it ? He put the coil