The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAN

ENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 5.
ADMISSION OF STRANGERS TO THE
HOUSE.
Mr. CHRISTIE said he believed he was at liberty
to state that the amendment he was about to prcpose
was sanctioned by the Speaker. When he moved a
similar amendment last session his proposed alteration
was resisted by the Right lion. Baronet opposite,
because from its wording it had reference to other
parts of the House than the body. His present amend-
ment, however, had been drawn up in strict accordance
with the views of the Hon. Baronet opposite, and it
fully met with the concurrence, as he had previously
stated, of the Speaker. Under these circumstances it
would be unnecessary for him to trouble the House,
and he would simply move the following amendment :
" That the Sergeant-at-Arms attending this
House do, from time to time, take into his custody
any stranger whom he may see, or who may be re-
ported to him to be, in any part of the House or gal-
lery appropriated to the Members of this Home, and
also any stranger who, having been admitted into any
other part of the House or gallery, shall mis-
conduct himself, or shall not withdraw when
strangers are directed to withdraw, while the House,
or any Committee of the whole House, is sitting, and
that no person so taken into custody be discharged
out of custody without the special order of the House.
That no Member of this House do presume to bring
any stranger into any part of the House or gallery

appropriated to the Meatleers of this House, while the
House or a Committee of the whole House, is sitting.
That the ,
' above resolutions be standing orders.
Dr. BOWRING seconded the amendment.
Mr. B. \V LLIA MS could see no reason why?
?:01 be :-.10-,-;;A to enter that Nouse.
fully for crcky
but at the same time he tiitiug ht. it was unjust not
allow strangers to be present at debates.
Lord J. RUSSELL interrupted the Hon. Member,
and pointed out to him that the amendment did not
exclude strangers.
Mr. WILLIAMS, after reading the amendaimi
ent,
continued.—The fact was, he had made a slight fi
take.—(A laugh.) He had been so much engar__
that day that he had had no opportunity lie
until t
of reading the motion paper.—(Laughter.)
would, therefore, not trouble tne House further. _
Sir R. 11. INGLIS wished to put a question
Pry
the Speaker, bearing upon the exclusion of strangee.
Hitherto it had only been necessary for an
cent
' Member to observe that strangers were pre
and the Speaker immediately requested Wilt,
withdrawal without the question being
as in other instances, to the vote of the Il""-
100 et
Now he Li ished to be informed whether, kingvais
the construction of one of the sessional orders,. itci by
not necessary that the question should be decided
a majority, and not absolutely by an indi
Member. Ought not a debate and a division to
place on the question ?
The SPEAKER said that he had previous e Leo
'
mated to the Right Hon. Baronet that he could
,Ds of
no objection to an amendment to meet the vie* es,
the Right Honourable Baronet. But the ciudo
tion, in fact, had aothing whatever to ee
wi. h the standing orders on the book.cis
not
the House. The exclusion of strangers di dear
depend upon the sessional orders. It wee of the
right for any Member to call the attention and
Speaker to the fact that strangers were present'•
wite
to request that they might be ordered to.desl
draw. It was an inherent right of each ind'Y'bieb
Member, and rested upon the same prineiPle„";tbst
gave any Hon. Member the privilege of Inev"..edeoe
the House be counted, which was immediately
toe
upon such motion being made; and upon the:d to
principle, the instant any Hon. Member observ; in-
the Speaker that strangers were present it we It
cumbent upon him to order them to withartivie se
was open to the Right Hon. Baronet to amv
amendment to put an end to the latter privilege•vv
Mr. HUME wished to ask whether enYeeespace
rangement had taken place by which tne d been
allotted for the accommodation of strangers bad
altered, as the space already allotted for their t'
modation was extremely small. order
The SPEAKER said he heed not given eneeßeing
on the subject. There was great difficulty ln:te of
desirable arrangements regarding the twil°4B-
strangers. alie, •he
Mr. HUME said that, on behalf of the
would impress upon the House the necessity of": ones-
arrangements more convenient than the preseaLbooe
Those persons who came there to hear thece 1 001
were much exposed to cold, and had scar
room. t wool'
The SPEAKER said that every arrangemOie eon'
be made for the accommodation of the Pli"'/ that
sistent with the accommodation of Members
House.
The question et as then put and agreed to.
of
PRIVATE COMMITTEES"
ee„doe
Mr. WALLACE begged to call the at''-eieg
y°
the House, especially of those Members bel
timeor' a
Committees of Selection, to the waste ofrivet°
money which the present arrangements of !essioet
Committees involved. He mentioned 11'4 xpense
that, in the instance of one railway Bill, the oe
had reached the enormous amount of 100,00%rithoot
trusted the present session would not Pees subject'
some effectual arrangement being made once te
i.igeer
He was far from impeaching the condu O'
greatt e'
bers on those Committees, who bestowed the the
pains and labour in endeavouring to ke,tepeet
in a reasonable condition ; but they had deal t'
their power to do that which they so inuckoe •1-7
Last session he called the attention of the, ad
131 .
two private Bills ; the first was the golik'ree-es
way Bill, the second was the Paisley ittes e°
Although those Bills came before the l'°iereelloeass'
March 25th, on July 25th they were yet in he anise
Now this was a fact which could not be contrybother
and he would leave it to the House to sal halve'
it was not its duty to alter such a state ,_0.4 t 136,:
He would contend that the House
guardhad
poriew
power to enable Private Committees to 1 'Cit°
50.1 fie
such annoyance. It was not right the. 691 g
should have it in their power to send for et'llese;
eounsel, thus entailing enormous eqebee usew;
f while the solicitors had the power, it wolli"
expect
or parties concerned in private Bills to m
curtailment of these expenses. He felt gee° efic.A°
vinced that it would be- greatly for the -feabihie-v-e
those private companies, if counsel were I).e Li.'
altogether from entering Committee-o°o3-'OA°
believed that this practice gave a facility to thee
taking fees, which was not permitted .1 50CI
House in Committees on public busineseteneei"
which tended materially to increase the ecirotioN
and afford facilities for delay and pros was
which could not otherwise emir. 01% gout
practice that had brought discredit upon thB if 000 w
and which discredit would go on incre,,,asi.‘ngsober
step were not taken to stop it. The De'. of Pre./
concluded by calling upon such Members ohittiP
vate Committees as were then present, twobsealYenitfteeeel:ttlo
they agreed with him in part or in the
he had said, and, by moving for a Select Connive oies'
ascertain whether they could not suggest el of Pr°.
sure by which to prevent this dillatory In°--
ceeding with private Bills. herr
Majesty's
EWART wished to put a quest'cln.,utioo,°
Committees Bn te
G Government
Houserela relative
upon
o the consti.
wished to see the Members C private
Bills of Committees
free from all personal interest in the ttiere.
tions which had to be submitted
mittees Peer
pith tee
This principle had been recognised those
iv wthriee tf'
spect to certain railway Bills; nanlea, '• on 11
competing lines. He had a notice of
paper upon this question for te•morrow evenVelel
the principle to which he alluded should he eished tfi
to all Committees on private Bills ; but he, leld,r,e;.,
know whether her Majesty's Governinenbsibilm
lieve an individual Member from that re:Vide:oh'
which he, however, was ready to take liPeild to trAkee
Sir R. PEEL said he was not prePar,re weerenit
any announcement on the part of the 1-1° fon3 IP;
which would relieve the Hon. Gentlemano be verl
duty which he had undertaken. It weti'ut of con'
difficult to define what was the direct inter es
nbeost
stituents in Railway Bills, and it would t
impossible to determine what was indirect !,, ant',
He hoped the Hon. Gentleman would 1131,i'd
Peel) "1 of'
his motion came on, as he (Sir Robert :00
wish to give an opinion upon the quesp Geotlea'
With respect to the observations of the Hat veoll
man (Mr. Wallace), he could only saY thati coa°sg
be excessively difficult effectually to controiresseei
81f:sag:noel:I";
with respect to the length of their ad'uotirey ?age
(Laughter.) It would be also difficult to
5. p
the Hon Gentleman's other
(Sir Robert Peel) believed that,su
of last session, the sum of 75,000/. wee
re; h Woo to
in the prosecntion of a railway Bill, evoie od,
mately thrown out. This Bill, he understo
very Igoe
be again brought forward, and there %Wig e
~,,t
bability of its succeeding.
Lord HOWICK said, he thought thererepelitie;
be longer time given for the presentation 0.
etd
for railway Bills than for those for other prop enC#j
over)of
Unless they adopted that course, great ine° _once
and great injustice would ensue, in cons:root!,
the adoption of the system of subjecting.
_iiipeed
Bills to a preliminary examination by tn€l.,are tir
Trade.—(hear, hear.) The House was,_°T fareaq
great decisions on projected railways "V., other'
been arrived at ; while the decisions 01' those
ect t°
were yet unknown. Even with resP country
„.e
which were known, the House and ther all jerP,
and the persons interested in those Bills we
ce ;ow
in ignorance of the grounds on which the re 'vete
founodseedPertiestre
dations of the Board of Trade were
fore, it would be unjust to call upon th
decide at once whether they would SW"'
A or 11°t.
measures in which they were stet In the
If they now fixed the time parties interee
to take -.0
intereste,e . eheea
measures would be forced either at °net
ex_ense
grea expense
thef
preliminary steps, and to incur
bringing their Bills before the Boues,er_nbrnietinl
would be deprived of the opportunitycern" ,
roittee.
(1)D,
such Bills to the fair decision of a eeke either_
was not just to call on these parties to
hear) __for h
these decisions at present—(Heol ports eff
believed that if they should find that the 1.,e00d an;
the Board of Trade were founded uP°'' t,id
commit the mistake of incurring a age
_ward. 13 r;
adequate reasons the parties interesteeidessweipenTe-
ture of money in bringing their /3ilis of these
on the other hand, it might happen thant;nuartiesbelohrst
decisions would not prove satisfactory,. a bed a
riff
they determined to abandon their sch
eenciatiOn of.
the
to canvass the grounds of the recolnM, Trade.e,
Boarnia
Railway Department of the°n the
—(Hear, hear.) He urged this arg,ll,l,:nuc Pdl:4l
sumetion that the Government and the should "et,
not intend that the decisions of that Doe the rePc"ai
final.—(Hear, hear.)be founa,
yep
of the Select Committee of last of Traay
Roar Bilk,'
it distinctly laid down that the - „away g
was not to decide on the merits of
rese"t4tj'Ad
but was merely to investigate the
“1-.1i)o, feces o°_
When he looked to
made, and to report to the House,
,eteoridenee
opinions for the on ande bof assisti
cit
Parliament, and for the purpos_
decision. Sjo;
Parliament in coming to its
Taittee °Afpd to
had been the decision of the
, the 3vg
year. When the arrangement ~Cae°";econl. 01"-- te
tbe House by the Right Hon. be °' eoic;
President of the Board of Trade,of incree-mef
Gentienia ~d no
propose it for the purpose
the influence of the Board,
but for the POP-