The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-18 00:00:00

SHERIFFS-SCOTLAND.

Mr. HUAIE then moved for a re.turn of the number of
days in the years 1842. 1843, and 1844, on which each
sheriff, in Scotland (excepting those fc r the counties of
Lanark and Mid-Lothian), officiated as judge in his
county court, and whether the nature of the business
was civil or criminal, or both, each day. Similar separate
return for each of the counties respectively of Lanark
and Mid-Lothian.—Ordered.
THE MAYNOOTH GRANT.

Colonel SIBTHORP moved that there be laid before
this House a return of the numbers of petitions that
have been presented for and against the present pro-
poaal on the part of her Majesty's Government, of an
increased grant out of the Consolidated Fund to the Col-
lege of Maynooth in Ireland, with fie number of signatures
annexed thereto ; distinguishing, where possible, Ist,
those petitions which object in tote to all endowment of
any religious worship ; 2d, those'petitions which object
to any grant of any kind to Maynooth ; 3d, those peti-
tions which object to the measure of her Majesty's Go-
vernment. The above return to be made up to Friday,
the 18th day of April.
Mr. THORNELY said that, as Chairman of the
Committee to whom petitions were referred, he begged
to inform the Hon. and Gallant Colonel that reports
were made twice a week to the House of the number of
petitions and the number of signatures attached to them.
On Tuesday last the Committee made its last report, and the
number of petitions up to that date presented against the
Maynooth grant were 671, to which there were attached
88,378 signatures. A further report would be made at
the proper period, but it would be perfectly impracticable
to comply with the Hon. and Gallant Member's motion
before that time arrived. .

Colonel SIBTIIORP--what can't be done can't be
done.—(Laughter.) The Hon. and Gallant Officer then
withdrew his motion.

CALICO PRINT WORKS BILL.

Lord ASHLEY, on the House going into Committee on
the Calico Print Works Bill, moved that it be an instruction
to the Committee that they have power to extend the pro-
visions of the Bill to the regulation of the labour of
young persons and women, and to all print works, and
to the processes incidental to the labour in print works.
—Agreed to.
The Bill was then re-committed to Wednesday next,
and ordered to be printed.
MATNOOTH.

Petitions against the Bill Were presented by Mr.
Protheroe, Mr. Cooke, and Mr. Henley.
THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.

The question having been put by the Speaker,
Mr. C. BRUCE said that when the question was first
introduced to the House, he felt it his duty, in com-
pliance with the feelings of his constituents, to express
his own convictions regarding the measure. He op-
posed this Bill on that occasion both on principle
and on the ground of expediency. He would ever sup-
port to the utmost of his power the Protestant religion.
The title to the British Crown rested upon it. The
rights of liberty rested upon it ; and under its protection
our national greatness—witness our prosperity and our
pre-eminence in learning, in the arts and sciences, in ma-
nufactures and commerce—had been created. Under its
protection this country had attained its present glorious
position. Its roots were deeply imbedded in the firm soil
of English hearts, and in the consciences and 'convictions
of the Scottish people. Like the oak of England, the
storm passed over it and harmed it not. It might echo
through its branches, and scatter its green leaves to the
winds, but after the storm had passed over, it stood aloft
in the glory of its position and the magnificence of its
strength. Like the meteor flag of England, its banner
had braved for upwards of 300 years " the battle and
the breeze"—because the favour of God was upon
it. He who alone governed the destinies of nations,
and who was greater than all the world in arms.
Ha feared that Right Hon. Gentlemen had f ,rgotten
the principles which were inculcated by their common
Alma Mater. The course of his Right Hon. Friend's
vision seemed to be dimmed. Time was when he (Mr.
C. Bruce) had learned from him that the principle the
Government was now advocating!, was wholly visionary.
The seminary of Maynooth would be a thorn in the
side of this country, as long as it continued. Such had
been the dictum of the Right Hon. Gentleman and his
arguments and reasoning had convinced many ; but his
Right Hon. Friend had now made the discovery that the
principle was only vicious because it had not been prac-
tically carried out, and they were now given to under-
stand that it only wanted the endowment of the Catholic
clergy of Ireland to effect that improvement.
Mr. GLADSTONE—No, no.

Mr. C. BRUCE was glad to hear that his Right Hon.
Friend did not hold the doctrine of venial and mortal
sin as propounded by the Church of Rome. The Roman
Catholics held that if they stole 9,000/. from a rich
man, that was a moderate sin ; but if they stole 30,000 L,
that would be a mortal sin. But the Right Hon. Gentle-
man thought differently. With him 9,000/. was a mortal sin,
but 30,0001. was no sin at all. His Right Hon. Friend
ascribed the practical failure of the College of Maynooth
to their not carrying out the intentions of William Pitt,
to their not endowing the Catholic clergy of Ireland. In
giving up his former principles, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had fallen in with others which would not meet
with equal approbation from the people of England—
principles which, to use a homely and common
phrase, were " penny wise and pound foolish."
He deeply regretted that the Right Hon. Gentleman
should have thought it necessary, even for a single mo-
ment, to deprive the country of those services which from
his habits of industry, from his high intellectual attain-
ments, and from his honourable feelings, he was
so well qualified to render to it. lie greatly regretted
the retirement of the Right lion. Gentleman, and he
regretted it still more, because it had been the means of
attracting the attention of the country to his
change of opinion—he would not say to his change
of principles. He had raised up obstacles to his
ability to render for the future any service to his coun-
try. He could not imagine any speech more calculated,
he would not say to shake the confidence which the
public reposed in its public men, but to bewilder the
minds of the people as to the principles professed by
public men, than the speech of the Hon. Gentleman on
this sudden change of opinion. He regretted it exceed-
ingly. He did not question the sincerity of the Right
Hon. Gentleman's motives. No person was more en-
titled to the respect of the country than the Right lion.
Gentleman, but he could not but feel that such would
be the effect of the Right Honourable Gentleman's sudden
change of opinion. The Right Hon. Gentleman might
depend upon it that if the mind of England could find
no exponent for its convictions among the leaders and
statesmen of that House, it was not so destitute of ability
as not ere long to find other leaders, or so benumbed
and paralysed as not to make every effort to endeavour to
find them out. He the more regretted the course the
Government adopted on the present occasion, because,
on all other occasions, he had been its advocate and
supporter ; and he deeply regretted that anything
should have occurred to shake, not the position of the
Government—for he had no fears on that score—but the
confidence and respect which they had hitherto so fully
enjoyed and deserved for the able manner in which they
had conducted the business of the country. The Right
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, in a speech
characterised by that ability which characterised
all the speeches of that Right Honourable Gentleman,
had divided his argument into two branches. Like a
Scotch sermon, he had divided it under two heads, each
of which contained various subdivisions. Under one of
these divisions he gave her Majesty's Government credit
for their superior party tactics in introducing this measure.
He had listened to the speech of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man opposite (Mr. Macaulay) with great attention,
and he felt compelled to say that the arguments of
the Right Honourable Gentleman in his wonderful
oration, were rather fallacious, while the speech it-
self was full of specious and unconvincing de-
ductions. It was a tissue of ingenious sophistries,
in which he had drawn a picture that exhibited
a magnificent embodiment of enthusiastic fanaticism
and indomitable courage in one of whom he was speaking,
and therefore it would not be wonderful if the Right
Hon. Gentleman had imbibed some of that religious
spirit which he appeared desirous of infusing into
the House. In Maynooth the students appeared
to be still inspired with the spirit of that character, the
great original of which the Right Hon. Geutleman
r tiauced)
spoken of in such glowing terms ; but he (Mr. U
would be far from saying that the House had adopted
any of the views or feelings of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
The Right Honourable Gentleman abused the Go-
vernment for their conduct in respect to the Free
Church 'of Scotland; but it was his opinion that the
Government had acted in accordance with the opinions of
nineteen-twentieths of those who were interested in
the matter, and they deserved the thanks of every
Scotchman for the course they had pursued.
He did not agree with the Right lion. Member for
Perth in his statements respecting the flourishing condi-
tion of what was called the Free Church. And as to the
boast of the six hundred new churches—that was only
part of their tactics. They built a church in
every parish, and built it as near as possible
to the parish Church, whether the site was convenient
or not. With regard to the argument that the present
measure was necessary to carry out the implied faith of
the Act of Union, and the spirit of the Emancipation
Act, he must say that he did not think the en-

dowrnent of the Catholic Chureh was patt of bithei%
I The_ grant. to Maynooth by the Irish Parliament was a
measure for the removal of civil disabilities ; but it
would be absurd to say that the present measure
could be looked upon in that light. Ile thought
that the Irish Parliament were wrong in pass-
ing that measure ; but their conduct would be
much worse, and they would be more guilty,, by
agreeing to the present measure, for it was of a much
graver and more serious character. He would judge of
the expediency of the grant to Maynooth from the
fruits borne by Maynooth. Looking to the con-
duct pursued by the Roman Catholic priests
—to the language which had been used by
Dr. 1111Iale and others towards the Puke of
Wellington, he did not think the Duke of Wellington
could be accused of using exaggerated language, if he
used the language which had been used by the Duke of
Ormond in speaking of the Roman Catholic bishca
of his time. His words, as reported by
Walshe, himself a Roman Catholic, were these :
He declared, " For these 30 years that I had to
do with the Roman Catholic Bishops, I never found any
of them either to speak the truth or to perform
his promises."—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh.") These were
not his (Mr. C. Bruce's) words—(Cries of " Oh, oli”)
they were the words of Walshe, and he continued
by saying that the Duke put his hand to his
heart, as a man and a Christian, and spoke with
an earnestness which lie had never seen before or after.
That state of things had lasted fifty years, and it could
not be denied that it had utterly failed in the pur-
pose for which it was established. The grant should be,
therefore, altogether withdrawn. He might quote a living
author, to show that the education at Maynooth was
most imperfect and improper. Men who had been edu-
cated there—Crolly, O'Beirne, and others used
language of censure in this respect much stronger than
that used by Mr. Walshe. Did the Government propose
to remedy this state of things ?—(Hear, hear.) Far
from it—they meant to increase the grant without
any attempt to remedy the faults of education
there. lie knew Roman Catholic Members would
tell him that they did not hold these doctrines
—they repudiated them, but if this were the case why
were they not expunged and rejected altogether.—
(Hear, hear.) But the Right Hon. Baronet at the head
of the Government said he did not wish to detract from
the grace or favour of the grant. lie had great autho-
rity to quote—that of a great statesman, who, in 1810, instruc-
ted the House in quite another manner. The Hon. Member
for Kent introduced a motion for withdrawing the grant to
Maynooth, as the motion itself was subsequently withdrawn ;
but this eminent statesman to whom he had alluded used these
words, to which he invited the attention of the House, parti-
cularly the Hon. Member fer Bath. "He did not think
that such compact existed as ought to prevent the inter-
ference of the Legislature, if the grant was perverted to evil.
He did not agree in the opinion that the system of instruc-
tion pursued at Maynooth ought to be a matter of indifference
to the House. He had not heard such an observation made
by the Noble Lord, but he had heard it imputed to him, and
the Nolile Lord did not deny it.—( Hear, hear.) It was the
bounden duty of the House, if they found that per-
nicions doctrines were taught there—doctrines pernicious to
the welfare and safety of the empire. He for one would never
concur in the principle of indifference, which he thought
should be repudiated. It would be a very proper question in
that case to submit to the House, whether the grant should be
discontinued or not ?" The statesman who-expressed that opi-
nion was his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Treasury
—he who now introduced the present measure.—( Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. C. Bruce) had not been induced to alter the opinion
which he had formed on hearing that speech of his Right Hon.
Friend. He maintained that the system of education adopted
in Maynooth was not such as ought to be supported. It was
not the place from which to expect loyal subjects or good citi-
zens. If any Hon. Gentleman doubted that, he had extracts
from works on the subject in support of his assertion.—( Cries
of " No, no," and laughter.) His Right Honourable
Friend had said that this grant would raise the cha-
racter of Maynooth.—( Hear.) What class of men, he
(Mr. C. Bruce) would ask, were better educated, or more fit
to move in the highest orders of life, than the Jesuits, arid yet
that class of persons had been expelled from every country in
Europe, even from the dominions of the Pope ? Their influ-
ence, however, was extended to Maynooth. He, therefore,
said that they could not mend the education of Maynooth by
merely increasing their grant, giving the students bet-
ter clothing, or by giving them better dinners. The
House then would see that they would be doing nothing by this
grant if they did not give to the whole people the facilities of
acquiring a good, sound, practical, and moral education, and
! that no other would give satisfaction to the country, no matter
how well or liberally they might endow the educational insti-
-1 tutions.—( Hear, hear.) Therefore, he would say they would
be disappointed if they expected that this grant to Maynooth
would give public satisfaction; on the contrary, it would only
have the effect of outraging the feelings of the great masses of
the country, while it would effect no good. His own opinion
was that this grant would have no other effect than that of
whetting the appetites of those to whom it was proposed to be
given, for an additional increase.—( Hear, hear.) There was
no man in the House for whom he had a greater regard or
esteem than the Right Hen. Gentleman the Chancellor of the
Exchequer ; but he would ask him, if he approved of this grant,
how could he consistently refuse to endow all other sects who
might apply for that purpose ?—( Hear, hear.) There were
some sects who would not have any such grant ; but there were
a great many others who would not refuse it.—(Hear, hear.)
That was not the place to discuss the truth or error of reli-
gion, but as our ancestors had decided that Protestantism was
necessary for the well being of this country, it was, therefore,
not necessary to discuss it. He did not wish to say anything
disrespectful of the Roman Catholic Clergy, but he thought
they taught what was erroneous. He wished that the Govern-
ment would leave them to teacz their religion themselves, and
spare the consciencies of serious and earnest men, who would
be shocked at the blow which they were about to inflict on
their Church.

Mr. W. GLADSTONE, rose in explanation of a few words
which had been misrepresented by the Hon. Member who had
just sat down, by other Members who had spoken in the course
of the debate. They seemed to intimate that the Government
expressed their intention through him of pensioning the Roman
Catholic priesthood. What he (Mr. Glat'stone) said was this,
that he felt that the acceptance of this measure would
put out of the way any religious objection
to the payment of the Roman Catholic Clergy.
And also a very great question would arise with respect to
their payment. What he meant or said was of little impor-
tance now, but he wished to relieve the Government from
anything that he might have been supposed to impute to
them, for he had no knowledge, no recollection of anything
connected with this subject which could enable him to suppose
that they entertained any intention of that kind. Nothing
that he recollected or heard could justify him in supposing
that they entertained the intention of pensioning the Roman
Catholic clergy.—( Cheers. )
Sir GEORGE GREY said that, notwithstanding the
length of this debate, he was desirous of stating, before it
came to a close, the grounds of the vote which it was his in-
tention to give. He was desirous to do so, because it would
be opposed to the strong remonstrances of many of
his supporters, whose confidence he enjoyed, and
which confidence he would run the risk of losing
by the vote he found he would be compelled to
give en so important a measure, and where the
welfare of Ireland was so deeply interested. He expressed his
regret at the tone and spirit in which the Honourable Gen..
tleman (Mr. C. !Bruce) spoke of the Roman Catholic clergy.
He believed his speech would present a strong contrast to those
made by Honourable Members during the course of the debate ;
and he earnestly hoped that the example which he had set, by
raking up extracts from old records, would not be imitated in
the debate. He had said that his consistency was interested
in the vote which he should give upon this occasion. But he
did not refer simply to votes which he had given on former oc-
casions when he supported the smaller grant of 9,0001, a year.
If he thought that the present measure was a mere increase of
the vote from 9,0001. to 26,000/., he should feel that no ques-
tion of principle could by possibility arise on the second read-
ing which would justify his refusal to assent to the second
reading. It would then be a mere question of degree, and not
of principle, and that was entirely settled to his mind.
But he believed with his Noble Friend the Mem-
ber for Dorsetshire that not only a principle, but
a grand principle, was involved in this measure—
namely, the recognition of the Roman Catholic religion—
( Hear, hear)—the recognition of that Church to which the
great body of the inhabitants of Ireland were so warmly at-
tached, and in the communion of which they were brought up
—the recognition of that fact, and not only of the fact, but of
the important principle that it was unjust, impolitic, and un-
wise to disregard the opinions of the great body of the people,
and to maintain and support a Protestant Establishment in the
midst of a Roman Catholic country.—( Cheers.) On former
occasions he maintained that opinion, and he was prepared to
repeat it now, that such a principle was in opposition to the
first principles of justice--( Hear, hear)—that it was in oppo-
sition to the obvious dictates of sound policy—( Hear, hear)—
as they knew they were opposed to the practice and example of
every country in Europe.—(Cheers.) Ireland was the only
country in which that experiment failed, and he had experi-
ence to judge of the results which had taken place.—( Hear,
hear.) He would say the same, if it was attempted to
establish and maintain a Catholic Church in a Protestant
country—( Hear, hear)—or to maintain an Episcopal Church
in a Presbyterian country—(Hear, hear)—and he felt some de-
gree of shame and regret that Scotland bad raised its voice
against the proposed measure, when he remembered the at-
tempts made by this country to impose episcopacy on Scotland,
and how the attempt was defeated by the stern spirit of his
northern fellow-countrymen.—(Cheers.) He knew he might
be told—and he had heard it during the debate—that if this
principle were admitted, that the great majority of the people
were to determine the religion which should be established in
any country, that it would lead to the establishment of Ilin-
dooism or Mahometanism in many portions of their widely ex-
tended empire. He denied that inference. He asserted that
there was a proper, a distinct, and a broad line of demarcation
between those professing Christianity and others living in hea-
twhoeun,
would
araksnke stsh,oasendi,i.hno thuesedperthfoirsmaarngcuem
acted towards the Hindoos and Mahomedans 7—(
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revenues. And what course did they then pursue?
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Establishment in that country in possession of large and ex-
tensivedrueporsitveudnjthuestmly—o(f
anues, but they transferred them to the support of another
lin.hdeychaeuetreds)—mfooart thuenyfanirolyt onlyand
clergy and another faith. The people still remained attached
to their ancient faith, and yet this by a strange misnomer was
called the Protestant reformation, and by an equally strange
hallucination they ',termed the Protestant Church, the Church
eis the
mea-
sure
that
in
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of Ireland.—( Cheers. ) He could not fail to give his cordial
assent to the second reading of this measure. He cared not
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would do themselves credit, and be fully understood and ap.
preciated by the people of Ireland—a step that would prove to
5.e Irish nation that their Church should not always be
stamped with odium, and that Protestants, however they
might deplore the errors which they believed Catholics
professed, would not yet deny them their sympathy
and their support. lie did not. deny, he firmly):
believed that this country had derived many advantages from
the blessings of the Protestant Reformation, and he could
sympathise with the petitioners who had approached the House
upon that important question, but he must say that the way
to advance the blessings of Protestantism was not by any exhi-
bition of ultra-exclusiveness ; the way to propagate Chris-
tianity was not by attempting to coercc people into the pro-
fession of it, a mode which was alike contrary to the Word of
God and repugnant to their fellow-creatures. With the prin-
ciples of several of the petitions presented to that Hausa, and
be presented one of them himself, he perfectly agreed. The
petitioners founded their apposition to the Bill proposed by the
Right Hon. Baronet on the general principle that all State en-
dowments were contrary to the Word of God, and they were
prepared to refuse to the Roman Catholics only what they
would, on a similar principle, hsvg rauscd to all other sects or
denominations, Dot when he (Sir George Grey) re-

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had existed in this country, and that throughout every
country in Europe State endowments had been the universal
custom, he was convinced that it would be better for society
that such an Establishment should have a permanent exist-
ence. He had been astonished to hear some Hon. Alembers
declare their intention of voting against this measure on the
abstract principle, and yet conceding that it was a measure
calculated to conciliate the affections of the Irish people.
He did not think it necessary at that time to argue, that the
mode in which the measure would work would carry out the
intentions of its promoters. but at an act of grace he thought
it one worthy of the Government, and one which would be
received with gratitude by those for whim it was intended.
—( Heer. ) He could not help thinking, that it would
have been better to have made a permanent provision for the
Irish clergy, instead of merely giving them the
means of education, and having adverted to that he must
say, that he held nothing in common with those who sought to
advance Protestantism by preventing the education of the
Roman Catholic priesthood, and be should as a Protestant
blush to think that Protestants, in carrying out the truth
ol their principles, should wish to be placed on the vantage
ground in order to compete with the Roman Catholic clergy.
Ile thought that Protestant ministers were not less aloe to
approach the truth with power, and with energy, and effect,
than an educated Catholic priest. fie had n w stated the -Lief
reasons which induced him to sup; eat this measure, lint he
could not conclude without stating that other reasons of a more
general character had influenced him also. He could not fur-
get that in the period he had sat in Parliament no question
having reference to Irish ecclesiastical polity had 'been consi-
dered in any spirit of liberality. Now, for the first time within
his own Parliamentary recollection, he found the leading men
of both the parties into which that House was divided, cordially
concurring in the policy to be pursued with regard to Ireland.
He would hesitate long before he would, although differing in
politics from those who promoted this measure, take any steps
which would overturn things as at present constituted. They
were told by an lion. Member in that House (Mr. D'lsraeli ),
that this was the first time that the Right Hon. Baronet at
the head of the Government used language so liberal in intro-
ducing any measure to the notice of the House, and they were
asked to mark their sense of the change in his policy, by resist-
ing this measure without any reference to its intrinsic
merit. He agreed with the Honourable Member that
every Government should act on settled and fixed
principles, that it was neither creditable or desirable
that they should do otherwise. He could not forget
the feelings engendered in Ireland—feelings which had sunk
deep in the minds of that sensitive people—when the Corp.
rations Act was before that House. He remembered well that
the strength of the Conservative party was directed against
the measure, and when they found at last that resistance to
the popular opinion was perfectly impracticable they gave in,
but not in a generous or noble spirit. Not with the tone or
spirit in which this measure was tendered to the Irish people.
He admired not only the spirit with which this measure was
laid on the table, but the temper and the tone and the language
with which it was introduced. He was glad to hear the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland say, and he
(Sir George Grey) perfectly agreed with him, that the only
principle on which Ireland could be governed now was the
principle of conciliation. The Secretary of State for the Home
Department had not yet spoken in this debate, but he (Sir G.
Grey) trusted that before it closed he would do so—that the
Right Hon. Gentleman must be anxious to show that he cor-
dially concurred in the new spirit which had come over them—
( Great cheering—and that he would not stand in the way of
the policy towards Ireland which the Government was pte.
pared to carry out—that he would say something to smooth
away an expression which had been much criticised in the
country. The Right Hon. Gentleman must recollect his once
saying " that conciliation had reached its limits." When he said
that this measure had been tendered in a generous and confid-
ing spirit he was sure that it had been accepted by the Roman
Catholic Members of that House in a kindred spirit—they had
exhibited a generous forgetfulness of the past, and he could
not but believe that the First Lori of the Treasury, who had
the power of controlling, in a great degree, the votes of a large
section of those who followed him, would carry out with their
assistance the liberal measures he had so auspiciously begun.
Colonel SIBTHORP rose to address to the House a few
words upon the very important measure which bad been
brought forward, and he would claim the kind indulgence of
the House when he acknowledged that he felt an increased
difficulty in thus presenting himself to the House, arising
partly from the unfortunate attempts he had made to address
them during an earlier stage of the debate; and though he did
not profess to be a nervous man—(Laughter)—be felt in some
measure a considerable degree of alarm in rising to address
them. He intended to support the amendment which had
been proposed by the Hon. Member for Newcastle—namely,
that the second reading of the Bill should be taken on that
day six months. He had, during the last sixteen years, given
his most decided, most determined, and most unchangeable
opposition to such measures as that now proposed by
the Right Honourable Baronet. But. that was not
the only reason why he rose to address the
House.—( Laughter.) Ile had another reason, lie had been
brought up in the principles of the Protestant faith—she had
been brought up in the principles of the Protestant Church—
and he hoped he had never treated the subject with that levity
which it had received from the Hon. and Learned Member for
Cork. When he considered the great powers of mind and the
varied talents of the Hon. and Learned Member, much as he
admired those talents and that learning, lie could nut help feel-
ing disgusted when that Hon. and Learned Gentleman intro-
duced before that House matters totally foreign to the question.
—(Laughter.) He had introduced a book—( Great laughter)
—a book that he (Colonel Sibthorp) had never read—( Con-
tinued laughter)—a book that he would never read—perhaps
the compilation of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself
and his quondam friend.—(Great laughter.) When he in-
troduced quotations from that book, no doubt it was to pie
ase
and tickle the appetites of those who wanted to be tickled.—
(Roars of laughter.) The Hon. and Learned Member had
the reputation of being well able " to set the table in a roar"—
(Bursts of laughter, in which Mr. Sergean t Murphy heartily
joined)—and in the courts of law he had elicited from the gravity
of the judges—for, after all, judges were but men—a degree of
merriment which ill beseemed the gravity of the bench.
Sir, said the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman, I say it would have
been more befitting the Hon. Gentleman to have read those
quotations—where he is no doubt a very entertaining, and very
valuable Member—at the Beef-Steak Club.—( Loud laughter.)
Perhaps, Sir, in fact I have been told, that ti.e Hon. and
Learned Gentleman visits that Society because it is founded on
temperance principles, but, Sir, I have seer, that Hon. and
Learned Gentleman sometimes when he has appeared, what
should call no fair specimen, as far as temperance goes, of the
members of that Society.—( Loud laughter.) Theft quota-
tions, Sir, would have told better there than within the walls t f
this House, where matters were being discussed touching upon
the religion of which he professes to entertain, ae I
do for that religion for which 1 profess the strongest and the
highest estimation. Sir, I say, that in this House such quota-
tions were, in my opinion, most unbecoming ; and such a grave.
subject as that which was then before the House ought not to
have been treated in such a manner by the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, considering the station lie occupies. Sir, I never
made a Merry Andrew of myself in this House.—(Roars of
laughter.) Sir, I never saw on the stage, at any time, a greater
Merry Andrew than the Honourable and Learned Gentle-
man made of himself. Sir, I know my duty—l know-
'my duty to my Sovereign—and I reverence my Gad.
I have a regard for my Protestant fellow-creatures. and I wit I
never act such a part as will be hurtful to their feelings. Sir,
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman thought proper in that
book—(Here the House was convulsed with laughter by
the solemn tone in which the Hon. and Gallant Member de-
livered this unfinished sentence)—Sir, in that book he first
touched upon the person of the Right Hon. Gentleman the.
First Lord of the Treasury.—( Great laughter.) I will leave
it to that Right Hon. Gentleman, Sir, to take what notioe he
pleases of it.—(Continued laughter.) Oh, Sir, I quar-
rel not with the Honourable and Learned Gentleman for
having done this. I trust, Sir, that I can stand up
within the walls of this House—yes, Sir, and I trust else-
where—fearless of whatever quotations that Hen. and Learned
Gentleman has to present, and which his present and perhaps
his quondam friend may recommend him to introduce—fear-
less of whatever remarks he may make with regard to my the-
racter and conduct. Sir, I must naturally suppose, for I have
some ground for feeling that the Hon. and Learned Gentle.
man would be the most proper person, if indeed he has it not
in contemplation already—perhaps he has—to be the editor of
a new edition of that book, which I have read as a boy at.
school—( Great laughter)—l mean Joe Miller's Jest!. That
Hon. and Learned Gentleman will permit me to say, but
whether he will or not I'll say it—(Loud laughter)—that lie
said nothing in support of that religion and of that measure to
which he professed to be so warmly attached. The Hon. ante
Gallant Gentleman wear on to say that he deeply regretted
that a Protestant Minister of the Crown, and the confidential
adviser of a Protestant Sovereign, should, he would say dared,
to have brought forward such a measure as this, so repugnant
to the feelings of every Protestant. He had been very much
surprised by the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, who represented the Protestant
University of Cambridge, and who had stood up iu
his place and said that he should give hie cordial
support to the measure before the House.—( Hear. )
That Right Hon. Gentleman had treated the numerous peti-
tions which had been presented against this measure in a
manner which they did not deserve. The Right lion. Gen-
tleman had said that those petitioners wished for the annihilation
of academical institutions altogether. He (Colonel Sibthorp)
believed that the petitioners had no such wish. This mea-
sure, if passed, would go far to establish the Popish Church in
Ireland, and would be a great step towards the demolition of
the Protestant Church. From the speech of the First Lord
of the Treasury, no one could tell whether that Right Hos,.
Gentleman was a Roman Catholic or Protestant, or a Ala.
hommedan.—(Laughter. ) At no distant time probably the
bench
ht Hinont.heGe pnrtoluedmapen
switioounld
ofbe
afouAnidahsoitnttiendgano.n_(Ge
acrroassi
rea
laughter. ) He (Colonel Sibthorp) confessed that he had lost
all confidence in the Right Hon. Gentleman. He was stepping
upon dangerous ground. This
Already hasty
dis-
gust through the country.treasure
e Hon.had spd
Gentlemen
opposite begin to flap their wings
Treasury
benches.—( Great laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentle
and look to the
man
the Home Secretary might smile, but he was not so safe ira
his
situation as he thought he was. He (Colonel Sibtheirp) in.
tended of course to give this measure his decided opposition.
I Before
will
tell I t down,he
Hon.eont n uae
and
dt h
LearnedHo n . an d
nGallantberfor
co
Gentleman,r
that I entertain no malignant feeling towards him.
He told me to take what he said in good humour. I hope
he is prepared to take what I say in the same spirit. But I
hope, Sir, that the lion. and Learned Gentleman, whenever he
enters this House, to speak on such a grave—such an important. subject as this, will at least consider that there are men in
this House who regard their religion with veneration. These
times are not the times of revelry. These are times when the
British public look to the House of Commons for a defence of
their rights and liberties, and for a defence of that faith in
which they have been instructed. These are not times to turn
their petitions into ridicule. These, Sir, are my honest opi-
nions, feebly—oh, too feebly—expressed ; and I tell the Right
Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government, that I will
never support him. I will never support any man in a measure
to support which I believe would be contrary to my duty to my
Sovereign,—(Laughter.) I never will support any man In
such a measure; and though the Hon. and Learned Member
for Cork told me that I would sooner sacrifice my principles
than be shared—(Roars of laughter)--I tell that Hon. and.
Learned Gentleman that I would rather not Only be shaved,
but have my head shaved off, than forget that I am a Pro-
testant, and the faith in which 1 was educated.—(Cheers. )
Mr. BL ACKSTONE addressed himself with considerable dif-
ficulty and much pain to the question before the House—with pain.
at feeling it his duty to differ from those with whom he usually
acted, and with difficulty, seeing the importance of the gum-
tion they had to discuss. It had been said that this measure
involved no principle. lie did not believe that the people of
England were so stupid as to combine for the purpose of re-
sisting a measure which involved no principle. He thought
that much new principle was involved in the measure before
tha House. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Coventry
(Mr. Ellice) had declared that Parliament was about to enter
on a new course. The Noble Lord the Member fur Liverpool
had used the unfortunate word " restitution." Now, he (Air..
Blacl;stene )would ask, whether restitution did not mean that same
bound to continue
They were told that by rineiple they were
grant was opposed.
ttew prieciple was involved in the measure then before the Hours?
the grant to Maynooth. 1 ear after year the
An attempt had been
out of abolishing it the following year. A
the maintenance of the.
made to draw an analogy between
generally, and the chaplaiaa
but he refused to vote against. it under the‘ hope that was held
Roman Catholic priests in Ireland
the
want a le,
of gaols and workhouses. There was a vast distinction, becaesest
the inmates of those places were constantly in