The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-28 00:00:00

LOWESTOFFE RAILWAY AND HARBOUR.

The discussion on this Bill was resumed this morning by the con-
sideration of the clauses, all of which, being unopposed, were passed
after slight alterations. The following important clause, however,
which was carried last night in the House of Commons, compulsory
on all railway companies, was inserted in the Bill :—" Be
it enacted that nothing herein contained shall be deemed or
construed to exempt the railway, by this or the said recited Acts
authorised to be made, from the provisions of any general Act re-
lating to such Bills, or of any general Act relating to railways,
which may Hereafter pass during the present or any future session
of Parliament, of the maximum rates of fares and charges autho-
rised by this Act." This being the first case in which the above
most important clause has been applied, great interest was evinced
as to the spirit in which it would be met by the railway companies.
The agents for the Bill expressed their perfect concurrence in the
principle of the clause, and the Committee gave an unequivocal
opinion on the expediency of its insertion, and its invaluable benefit
to the public.
A few protective clauses, suggested by the opposing parties and
agreed to by the promoters of the line, being inserted, the Bill was
passed, and the Committee proceeded to the discussion of
THE DIRECT NORWICH AND BURY AND IPSWICH
LINES.

Mr. AUSTIN, on the part of the Bury and Ipswich scheme, urged
the ineligibility of the Direct Norwich Company to oppose, in con-
sequence of its allegation of competition being wholly unfounded.
The lines were at right angles with each other, and he contended
that their rival had no locus standi in the Committee whatever.

Mr. ALEXANDER supported the opposition of the Direct Norwich
Company, and founded his demand on the report of the Board of
Trade, which declared the lines to be competing, and had actually
rejected the project for which he appeared upon those unquestion-
able grounds.
The Committee having ordered the room to be cleared, remained
in discussion for a considerable time, when they came to the de-
termination of proceeding with the Yarmouth and Norwich Ex-
tension, and subsequently with the direct line, withholding any
opinion on the disputed question of the right of the latter to oppose
the Bury and Ipswich.
This decision being at variance with a previous arrangement,
the Counsel for the different lines expressed their inability to pro.
ceed, and after a few formal propositions had been disposed of the
Committee adjourned.

Group ER.
DUNDEE AND PERTH RAILWAY.

On the assembling of the Committee this morning, the room was
cleared for the consideration of the spot at Perth where the ter.
minus should be constructed. On the admission of the public,

_ .
The CHAIRMAN stated that the Committee had come to the de.
termination that the question should be left to the decision of the
Board of Trade.

Considerable discussion ensued with respect to this decision—
the parties on both sides proposing various ways in which the point
should be submitted to that Board.

At length it was finally agreed that the course pointed out should
be adopted.

The remaining clauses of the Bill were then gone through scrim
tint, and were agreed to with various alterations, more particu
larly with respect to the conveyance of passengers and goods.

The CHAIRMAN held that the fares were more exorbitant on this
line than on any other in Scotland.

An HON. MEMBER was of opinion that the plan adapted of
preventing persons from remaining in their own carriages must be
dispensed with on this line.

Other suggestions for the convenience and safety of passengers,
and the running of trains for the less opulent portion of the
public, were made. The counsel for the promoters of the Bill
stated that they would meet with due attention.

The report was then agreed to ; the Chairman said he would re-
port their decision to the House, and the Committee adjourned
until one o'clock on Thursday, when the

ABERDEEN RAILWAY
will be preceeded with.

Group L.

GUILDFORD, CHICHESTER, AND PORTSMOUTH

RAILWAY.

The Committee resumed this morning, when the Duke of Rich•

mond appeared, and stated that there was, to his knowledge, a

great communication between Chichester and Portsmouth, between
Midhurst and Petworth and Chichester, and indeed the intercom-
munication between the several places there was considerable.
There were about 3,000 acres of beech timber in Charlton
and Leighton Forests, and this timber was partially
unsaleable, in consequence of the deficiency of the means
of carriage to the coast. The district was also rich as
an agricultural district, but an impediment had arisen from the same
cause, and he thought the proposed line was the best for West
Sussex. Since the memorial which his Grace had transmitted to
the Board of Trade, there had been meetings at Goodwood, in
which a great desire had been manifested by the South-Western

Company to meet the wishes of the landowners, and a deviation

line had been devised which met all their views. Pro-
posals at that meeting had been made by the South-
Western Company to the Brighton and Shoreham Company,
which he thought both liberal and equitable, but these proposals
had been rejected by the Brighton and Shoreham Company. Yet,
he still thought that the coast-line, as devised by the Brighton
Company, was of the utmost importance, not only as opening the
Southampton market to West Sussex, but also in a national point
of view. But his opinion had altered as respects the Shoreham
Company ever since the proposals of the South-Western Company
and the county would be more benefited by the South-Western than
by the Shoreham line, and the feeling now was so great in
the country for railways that he thought they must be made, and
so deep was this impression on his own mind, that he had offered
to the South-Western Company to pass through his park, provided
he neither saw nor heard the trains, notwithstanding he, as a
landowner, was in some respects opposed to railways. One of
I these offers was to take a certain sum of money and retire from
the field ; another to amalgamate, and the third to adopt a union of
interests in two lines. 1 here was an agreement between the Brighton
and London Companies and the Shoreham and Chichester Corn.
pany to rent the line of the latter Company to the former for ten
years, but the proposal was for the amalgamation of the lines to

commence at the end of ten years, unless the Brighton Company
should allow it to commence at once, the line being leased to the
South-Western Company at 4 per cent. in perpetuity. A coup.
ter proposition had been made by the Shoreham Company, which
was rejected, after much discussion, by the South-Western
Company; and Lord Wharncliffe, to whom the matter had
been referred, had expressed his opinion that the Shore.
ham Company ought to have taken the proffer which had been
made to them. Lord Egmont was still an opponent of the South_
Western line, as was also Mrs. Dorian, though he believed that
Colonel Wyndham was not. He (the Duke of Richmond) should
certainly not vote on any railway which passed through his pro-
perty, and he had only spoken at this meeting as a landowner.
The latter part of this evidence was given to the cross-examina-
tion of Mr. Whateley, to which his Grace further reiterated his

impression that the coast line was of great national importance.
To the cross-examination of Mr. Sergeant TALIOURD, the Duke
stated that there was a very strong feeling in West Sussex in
favour of the Chichester line ; and he thought it best for the line
to pass through the route proposed by the South-Western Com-
pany, provided the rights of private property were not materially
affected, The memorial of which so much had been said,
had been drawn up by the Chichester and Shoreham
Company, and its terms had not been very nicely ex-
amined. The only name signed before his Grace's was that of
the Duke of Norfolk, and part of the object of that memorial
had been to prr sect the property of the Duke of Norfolk. He did
not quite approve of the monopoly which threw several lines under
one company ; but as the Shoreham Company had leased their
line for ten years to the London and Brighton Company, he
thought that just as much a monopoly as the other line. As long
as the lines were perfectly independent of each other they would
certainly be a check upon each other, yet he saw no course which
would prevent one line from purchasing shares In the other, or
otherwise obtaining an influence in the proceedings of the other
eompany.

To the inquiries of Mr. RAWLINSON, his Grace replied, that to
effect a communication with Woolwich, Chatham, and Sheerness,
he thought that the South_Western Company would be as con-
venient as that of any other line. With respect to timber,
both Lord Egmont and Colonel Wyndham sold a considerable
quantity of timber every year, but he was not aware that there was
a canal near their properties to carry it to the coast. It was ne-
cessary to know this, because a considerable portion of this timber
was used at Portsmouth for Government purposes.

To an inquiry from the CuAIWIZAM, his Grace stated that there
decidedly was a feeling for this line, and it was his impression
that all 'anded property was improved by a railroad passing through
it, and though his own opinion was not altered from what it was
originally, still he waited his objection partly in deference to
the feelings and opinions of those in his neighbourhood. As
these parties thought that there would be greater convenience
from it, they would undoubtedly use this railway more than they
had at first anticipated, and several memorials had been sent to his
Grace by parties who had signed the original memorial to the
Board of Trade, expressive of sentiments quite opposite to those
stated in that memorial, and requesting him to withdraw his op.
position to the Gulidford Extension line.

Mr. Horne was re-called and cross-examined by Mr. ALEXANDER,
and stated that he had never taken any traffic before to ascertain
the probable returns for a railway scheme; but he had taken his
data from the Stamp-office, and had included in his inquiries both
Arundel and Bognor, and with those towns he had included
coaches from Bognor to Shoreham and Chichestor to Shoreham.
He had taken Petersgeld, Lipprock, Haslemere. Guildford,
and Woking, but not Farnham, nor Alton, Letherhead, or Epsom.
He had taken in a Southampton and Brighton coach, and a Mid-
hurst and Brighton coach. He conceived that the passengers
would go by rail to Chichester and thence to Brighton. To the
Midlitirst coach he had assessed six passengers to each journey.
He had taken his data on about 23 coaches, and he found that there
would be 82,680 passengers annually. He could not tell the
number of journeys, but he could give the number of passengers
by each coach ; the result was the aggregate we have just given.
, He had got his data both from the Stamp-office as well as from
inquiries at the several coach-offices. He had put down
13,104 passengers for carriers' vans—one of these vans
a van to Woking from Chichester, the distance being 361 miles!
from Chichester to Shoreham it was 23 miles, being a difference of
13 miles. The number of passengers by Jenman's van to Woking
was three passengers on an average per journey, four journeys per
week. There were vans also between Chichester, Midhurst, and
Petwerth, and also between Chichester and Midhurst, which car-
ried on an average 48 passengers per week. Harding, Standing,
and Clarke's vans, from Pet worth to London, went all the way by
road. Pctworth was about 14 miles from Godalming. Most of these
inquiries had been made about six weeks ago. Harding, Stand.
ing, and Clarke were three distinct persons—not a
firm—and they carried 84 passengers per week, and
for all these conveyances he put down 13,104 passen-
gers. The next was for posting passengers. .The number of
passengers from Portsmouth would travel on an average 96 miles,
and the whole mileage would be 4,958 per week. By inquiries, he
had ascertained from Mr. Ballard, who kept the principal inn at
Chichester, that the cross journeys through the country were ten
per diem. The passengers by this means were 9,644, and the
total mileage was 224,700 per week. The nearest way from Bath
to Brighton would be by the new line, but he reckoned his
le),,,sttignwgoluoslida4dygorritofirlFoemsa eF:inaadrmeh,,
aaamrnrdyt hegc chfaiocl
uchurel:tteaersd.s
et
niga,
ethretshdooi
ssnteagnaocnientagrvaetvorealtgl heed:
bein
making a total mileage of 12095 miles.l From Portsmouth, by
Peterstield, Guildford, and London,, he calculated 100 journeys,
calculatedmaking
commercialoBot
orc: passengersypepassengers
and a
e r as ay
year.ea
totalr of
2. rol rr Bognor and Arundel he
'There,ls7 were upwards of 2,000
local passengers. His
data wereming derivedtoa.gat
e,frovimh theci,
were numberlso W
o f personseekl passing through
yOnoin horses and
y t
by gigs ; and in his calculations he. had
fourth of the nu.nber of passengers as using
theak railroaden one_
forin
five miles. He had then taken the next gate, and
Proceeded
the same manner. He had made no calculation of the traffic for
Dorking, and had never been there, but horn the inquiries he had
made he had learned that there were 21,157 passengers in the die-
t ict travelling five miles each. He had obtained his number of
602,170
passengers from Nine Elms for the books of the South_
Western Company, which stated the number of passengers to
Gosport. On this number he had 25 per cent., which he thought
was a very moderato increase. He could, not state the money
taken, but the number of passengers Jy all
the trains
o dont,
was 60,00, and he had n