The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-04 00:00:00

1---.

stagnation would have increased--the purchasers would asked for was fair play. They asked for a fair price,
be still holding hack. Any one would have looked at and he conceived they were entitled to it, from the dis-
the reduction Hof these duties as certain, and the advantages in which they were placed.
refiner would not be able to get rid of his stock. Mr, C. WOOD said that he believed the Government
A certain compensation would attend the reduction intended to carry out their system of classified duties
of duty—it was impossible that the consumer could with the fairest spirit, but he believed it was improbable,
benefit at once by the change—it would reach him in if not impossible, to carry them out. If they did carry
time, but not until the dealers had a considerable portion them out, the Right Honourable Baronet would lose
of the profit. He could not see any reason why specific at least 200,0001. more than he anticipated from
compensation should be demanded—he could not con- the imposition of his differential duties. He therefore
ceive any reason for making an allowance. The Hon. thought it would be better if the Right Hon. Baronet
Member for Lambeth had instanced the case of the would accede to the proposition of postponing the reso-
timber duties in favour of compensation, but it should lutions until after Wednesday, that the Government
be recollected that if six months
had in that instance might then come down to the House unfettered by any
been allowed to the timber merchant to get his stock off, resolutions, and enter upon a full reconsideration of the
that it was more difficult, and required a longer time to whole subject.
dispose of a quantity of timber than of sugar. It was, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER saw no
on the whole, both as regarded price and consumption. a objection to the course proposed by his Hon. Friend
Much heavier article. With respect to classification, he opposite; but he trusted in assenting to the postpone-
thought that they must either do one of two things— ment it would be understood that he was not giving any
either they must adopt a system of classification similar pledge as to the postponement of the resolutions; on the
to that which the Government intended, or they other hand, he hoped it was the general understanding
must impose a certain dn'y on all descrip- of the House, that after the discussion of the
tions of foreign sugars. He must say he pre resolutions no delay should take place to pre-
ferred the former, anl thought it perfectly practi- vent the Bill itself from passing. If that
cable. In the latter, no Custom-house officer, were the proper interpretation of the wish of
however Boeotian, could fail in making distinction, the House, lie was willing to consent to the
but he could not think it would be at all just. He postponement of the resolutions. Several suggestions
ghad received a letter from an American gentleman of had been thrown out, but there were considerable prac-
adsintelligence, connected extensively with the sugar tical difficulties in the way of their adoption. He would,
r,
and he expressed his surprise that the question of however, consider them between this and Friday, on
e
classification could have been considered so difficult. On which day he should again move the resolutions..
the whole, he (Mr. Gladstone) is as decidedly favourable Sir W CLAY hoped that some intimation would be
to
artrhiee dm i
easure, and considered that the sooner it was given to the House, previous to Friday, of the modifica-
nto operation the better. tions Government proposed to introduce.
,'s 11r. HAIVES said the /tight Hon. Gentleman had, by The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was nu-
n speech, convinced him that it would be impossible derstood to say, that if it were in his power he would do
woui
to carry out the proposed system of classification. It so, hut it was not to be inferred from this that he gave
dbe found impossible to draw the line of distinc- any pledge.
a°rl, whilst there would be no difficulty at all in the Lord J. RUSSELL thought that the House would be
other proposition of the Right lion. Gentleman, im- in a position to discuss and deliberate upon the resolu-
Piosine a certain ditty up ,n all foreign sugar. He thought tions on Friday. He hoped, however, that the Right
e'assification afforded a premium to bad manufacturers, Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer would
bt,„,ld to them only. It was founded on the old protective give some previous intimations of the intention of the
fi'neiPle. He thought the delay proposed by the Right Governmentthought it was not too much to
an °Rourable Gentleman was, on the whole, expedient ask for two days' notice.
Gdesirable, and he thought further consideration A fter a few words from an Hort. MEMBER,
considerably modify the opinion of the Right Hon. Mr. HUME said he hoped, in the meantime, the Ge-
eetueinan on the subject. vernment would consider the propriety of allowing a
ee-ci.' el"er a few words from Sir R. PEEL, which were not drawback on stock on hand. The measure would press
h,hrle in the gallery, extremely hard upon the trade if something of this kind
13 COLLETT wished to know from the Right Hon. were not done, and he hoped the Government would
gßaiseet the distinction between brown and Muscovado ultimately agree to allow a drawback. He would take
?—(Laughter.) that opportunity of stating that so long as they con-
pfeee `r IL PEEL said that House was not exactly the tinued differential duties they ought to extend them to
thtitfir such definitions.—(Laughter.) Any dealer in the East Indies, where there was an ample field for the
terewotild explain to the Right Hon. Gentleman better production of sugar. He believed that large capital
He (Si Pl) could
tor rH. ee eou . would be devoted to this purpose, if it were not for the
bea„ d JOHN RUSSELL said that the inquiry did not uncertainty of the Government. If the Government
se— 'Ton the question then to he propos,dthere would only melse up their mind to extend the same dile-
t'S an ohjectien that if the 70,000 ans of sugar, which I-elitist! duties to the East Indies, as they applied to the
rut's
Tan Slated by his Right Hon. Friend the Member for West Indies, they might depend upon it capitalists
03,—„m°11 (Mr. Labouchere) to be imported into this would be prepared to advance capital to carry on the
eate-4Y, were to have duties levied upon them at the undertaking. It would be attended with very little
ars Proposed by her Majesty's Government, the Right injury to the public interests, and he hoped the Govern-
e,°n• Baronet would find that the East India interest ment would see the necessity of giving the subject their
-.eat
Materially suffer, and that the proceeding would best attention.
Materially interfere with the impost which the Sir J. R. REID must say that he had never heard a
thts India merchants expected to be subject to after better speech from the Hon. Member opposite, and he
,arraneernent of l 8 6. trusted the Hon. Member would continue to foster the
th -tlie CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said principles he had just advocated.
ti he thought the Noble Lord misapprehended the Mr. THORNELY trustel the House of Commons, as
earect of the imposition of these duties, and that after the the representatives of the people, would not agree to any
Which had been taken to impose a differential duty further duty, whether it were imposed upon the British
t +Orei.--n.
hete grown sugar, the protection enjoyed by the or foreign possessions. He was surprised to hear his
India grower would be sufficient to save him from Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose advocating the 4_ 'hat extra effect which the Noble Lord, in his opinion, interests of particular individuals. The Hon. Member
eedl
e,sslY apprehended. seemed to forget that they were sent there to represent
leer Lord SA.NDON said that he would make one ob- the interests of the people.
tienait,'°ra though after the extent to which the discus- Mr. HUME was quite surprised to hear his Hon.
ale-,"nd gone, he would not detain the House many Friend objecting to a temporary duty. He (Mr. Hume)
less—ee"ts• He would, therefore; only observe that un- was certainly no advocate of a permanent duty, but he
suuifferential duties were imposed on East Indian made his proposal, believing that it would benefit the
de1631 the mere equality of duty would act as a great consumer. At the present moment, the cultivation of
ai,onuent to the West Indian growers, and a great sugar in some parts of the East Indies was neglected,
Ther'g and disadvantage would be done to that body. whereas, if a temporary duty were given to insure a
P.,4;tre.,.lnight be difficulties in making a classification of market, there would be a field for the employment of
might
sugars but it should be recollected that the the unoccupied capital and labour of this country.
sition of these' duties did not act up to the full Mr. B. 'WILLIAMS trusted the Government would be
Porte of those duties. For the sugars which were disposed to allow a return upon stock in hand. Already
efForted from Java, it should he recollected, were sugars a considerable reduction had taken place in the prices of
Porti,:ehigh quality, whereas the sugars which were im- sugar, in consequence of the announcement of Govern-
ere from the West Indies were of various quality, a meat ; and it was, therefore, their duty to make the laws
een!‘ Portion of them, indeed, of a low quality, and the as light as possible. If they would only extend the
sitio'equeace was, that if the House sanctioned the impo- time to the sth of April, it might enable the present
bei„ Of a 10s. duty, or a difference of 10s., this 10s. holders to get rid of their stocks, but, at all events, if the
ltle.! la favour of colonial sugar, imposed on sugarsof a Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
ite,:r quality, it acted as a duty of ss. only on Java would not consent to this proposal, he should feel it to
lqa t'l• It must be remembered that the sugar of the be his duty to take every opportunity of opposing the
hit Indies was produced by expensive free labour, Bill.
Ileene,the sugar of Java and Manila, was produced by Mr. BROTHERTON thought the proposal of his
seetiYbour. Anything, therefore, that operated to Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose was a fair
twee' or modify the difference of cost of production be. one. It was only to establish a duty for a short time,
et,: the two sugars operated pro iunto as a boon to the to increase the extent of the labour-market.
the coon Java and Manilla, and to the disadvantage of Dr. BO WRING reminded the House that they had
fatalSeta: grewer. The same principle applied to the forgotten the great interests of the community, and were
%Ike' the East Indies. There they had labour in abund- discussing the interests of individuals. Until' effect
gate' and no difficulty was experienced in obtaining the were given to the principle of the Right Hon. Baronet
414 C t-hest means of cultivation. He hoped, therefore, opposite, that they should purchase in the cheapest, and
tittliee }louse would not consent to such an alteration sell in the dearest market, the question would never be
veal differential duties proposed by her Majesty's Go- satisfactorily set at rest.
l'Aierill'ent as would increase the disadvantage under After a few words from Messrs. P. Borthwick, C.
Lambeth
West Indies were placed. The Hon. Member Wood, and Foster,
4bight'-darabeth (Mr. Hawes) had said the other The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER with-
,otta„' that in the imposition of duties the drew his resolutions, and
Nate'a were too apt to overlook the interest of the The CHAIRMAN was ordered to report progress.
it; and to legislate for those who were best able to The House then resumed, when
"ear' Such a way that they had the least impost to The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave
ghee bile the poor man was invariably oppressed by to sit again on Friday.
iPesi ditty He had heard it stated, that in the THE BASTARDY BILL.
dui ng the duties on tea, they had put 50 per cent. Sir J. GRAHAM proposed the second
-reading of
ktieh3' on the tea consumed by the poor man, and as the Bastardy Bill, till Friday.
ftkltti. at: 200 per cunt. on that consumed by the rich PROPERTY-TAX BILL.
Lis ,41,e could assure the House that he had heard On the order of the day, for going into Committee on
;Ileielae‘eed• Now, he conceived, that in all the great this Bill being read,
*gild
th- consumption it was an obvious duty to con- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose
'ettla the
of the masses. He conceived that that and said, he would be glad if Hon. Members would
it'o4 e by far the more advantageous plsn in the im- postpone their amendments, and take the discussion on
/4411eir le/ duties on a great scale, such as that proposed the Bill on the bringing up of the report.
on .winiesty's Government; the duties would then Mr. DARBY wishd to ask the Right Hon. the
n.‘ wouldery class of the community in a fairer way. Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether it would not be
);`,l
11 greatly contribute to the convenience convenient to take the discussion of his Hon. Friend
o 'lterce and especially to those persons
Of had • (Mr. Miles) the Member for Somersetshire, upon the
etem the duties to pay. The principle question of going into Committee ?
to ?hiug slave labour gave peculiar tea- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it
'44tp "tie produce of the West Indian colonies, and as was his intention to take the Committee the first thing
rodu
keetiee
ore was a various produce, he thought the ap-
t e a classifiedof duties would most tend to
avant on Wednesday, and the amendment alluded to was first
on the paper.
'eaea age of those that consume sugar, and Mere- After a few words from Mr. C. WOOD, who was
eualallowiedLworthy of the
.consideration. of the House. totally inaudible in the gallery,
etDe~oesidL' UV ERIE said that it was evident that there The House went into Committee upon the Bill, and
re._,ert.thle doubt in the House of the passing of the Committee immediately adjourned to-Wednesday.
Zhie it:pitons ae all, and therefore the postponement The SPEAKER resumed the Chair, and the House ad-
etl te`" been suggested ought, he thought, to. he ac- journed at a quarter-past Eight o'Clock.
C'ed shat
There was another consideration which re-
that wasuat the whole subject should be reconsidered, and
ymt ther simply a mere question of justice. The fact was,
in he
hands stock of sugar at the present
tipege h„re of the wholesale dealers as well as
thet.'"ed warehouses of the Government. Now,
this duty
the duty had been paid to Govern-
t:ole, te,rethis duty was paid by the wholesale dealer to
e °ant, under the impresston that he had to look
itt",siner for a repayment of that amount. They
jet' Pet, advanced the money to Government as a
vso net trustees of the consumer. The Right Hon.
et. Paid ,ellaPosite had stated that the retail dealer had
;ett `°o duties to the wholesale dealer or the mer-
)ve hands the stock which he held—that the stock in
its
the, detihoef the retail dealers of the country
he r4l.nty to le,sB very extensive. That to return
1i1e`„4.13-etnem was, in his opinion, impracticable. But
taist;"' any Tate) conceived that, so far as it was pos-
a,terl, ,J rate it was but just that it should be re-
The resp„fe same objection, however, did not hold
titer retgre" to the wholesale dealer and the merchant.
v not " to them was at least practicable and if it
AeheNeteTade to them the would would stand, inurespect to
' very • e- • •
‘leth hlvaelia much in the position of the creditors of
4%)11,e7 ha,' and other portions of the United States,
to be a, in fact, paid money in on account, and
reimbursed.
liteeeeibiliOßTHWlCK conceived that the measure of
Precj'er foment was a practicable measure. The Hon.
Mari heater had told them that all its
Isee4:01180
())171.depended upon the acuteness of the Cus-
sae es.) T le,ials•—(" No, no," from the Opposition
Nee Fns opinion there was a wider difference
that St and West India sugar than there was be-
tiller:lnd !
a :reduced by slave labour and free labour,
Lgetare, °u reg matter of justice a differential duty,
eiteeeTritleut to be imposed on East India sugar. The
die —an. had made a claim to a character for
Itf °Qs which they were now rendering completely
lefate,(4lll ialehe37 had passed a great measure for the re-
aed
rieouring population of the West India co-
Ate c)4 t() 0W they desired to drive that labouring po-
Pltediv e,as a worse state than ever they had known.
atitellensals,
aPirlation in those islands of 800,000
Nts,,!l, but he did nut appeal for the
Ilter:res e. fo
r the poor negroes, whom their
tee - sea, "ould throw into a state of destitution.
ttieti ' as h
of said, quite as much difference in the
leh
ce thee East and West India sugars as there was
see a which •
sis ahe the was the produce of slave and that
llsa
ifte hopeaProduce of free labour. For these rea-
toNe d scale ethe Government would adhere to their
at Po 414 ST °' duties
10:etatt)P!,'%Ite thie said that he thought it would be better
kinistePeassing of these resolutions until her
t to deters had ascertained what it would be
!aleY I,o,!Fte c„fresWah the surplus which they stated to
(),1 f" of the EN:cliff:pier. lie believed that
urther inuir find that it was a perfect
Oise tY '0 carry ' •
heir duties into effect. It was,
it'cliklity°lfieec'ear'' ton utter impossibility for the Custom-
tlill'titay 119 f the ecirne to any right decision on the
timevsh 'ee arid sugars imported. There were
Ivll4 ill Person !trying shades of quality in the article
cesalt4th a dirhesaittu the. trade themselves were some-
liett„ th, quality h.„,, to ascertain, from mere inspection,
ate dialexpec,",",usat, certain sugar was. How then
1h d e.o4lll),lnetin"..uci iuse offieers to rightly im-
-4 arrie '' find t''t, ."'les ? The Government he re-
e4t e iieir measure perfectly impracticab e.
y, " ould arise which had been experienced
sdattyeui-hbo°hen °4:: discriminating duties on tea. The
`'oe ,er es 4se ()fees 64., that on congou 2s. The
11%4 tqatf," UPOo -erS at Liverpool had charged the
41kilidollgeila4,0nagopueTrcel of bohea, tinder the supposi-
Irr
rttes has'
'tee erie_ st the re • neCustom -house officer at London
urld.'Yrse of this, having charged ls. 6d.
idtq "vo p 4 7 the sue
pnositio th t 't b h
n was . e ,
h 'ee i a given a.fair instance of what
imposing dt-criminatine• duty on
tOcinesPnetw?euld, thee r
seouhi -0 ore, suggest that the Right
oit. dWhen tl postpone his resolutions till after
et, e. It -0 evi e 'V would be able to ascertain what
te, 4e t" the
14'4 s sa'd "1.1)1 us'
to etrrias thee,
01 if the Chancellor of the Ex-
anys'n the subject as he was, he would
rtsollitiora 411 the West Indies

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.

(YESTERDAY.)

MANSION-HOUSE.

Captain William King, the commander of No. 3,
watermens' steam• vessel, was summoned before the Lord
Mayor, by John White, the owner of a wherry, for
havil4 caused the swamping of the wherry, by which the
lives of seven persons were endangered.
The complainant stated that on Tuesday last, as he
was taking some passengers down the river from Black-
friars-stairs, the steamer, which was passing Swan-stairs,
went right into the wherry, sunk her, and all on board ;
five men, a woman, and a child, were immersed in the
water. He was convinced that the accident was occa-
sioned by the improper management of the steamer.
Upon his cross-examination by the solicitor to the
company, the witness stated that the two persons who
rowed were not free watermen. They were passengers,
but; they were experienced men. The damage to the
boat and the loss incurred amounted to 16s.
The Solicitor to the Company—How often were you
in the water ? Witness—Once.
The Solicitor—Had you no liquor on board at the
time but water ? Witness—Certainly not.
W. Serle stated that he was one of the persons who
rowed the boat. The steam-boat same down upon the
boat at once and swamped her, and a boatman of the
name of Norcott extricated those who were overturned.

The LORD MAYOR—Are you a waterman v?
Wit:
ness —I am not a free Waterman, but I know all about it.
Henry Dansell, a fellowship-porter, stated that he
was not a waterman, but be knew all about it, and he
was rowing the wherry at the time the steamer walked
into the wherry. He could row as well as the water-
man who made the complaint, and ho was always nig-
gling about in boats. The captain of the steamer did
not ease the vessel an inch.

Thomas Collins, a passenger in the wherry, stated that
they had not time to tack about, when they were run
dowel. Witness jumped overboard, and swam ashore.
If the captain had stopped the way of the steamer the
occurrence would not, in his opinion, have happened.
Thomas Norcott, a waterman, stated that he rescued
the people. He did not know how the boat got under the
steamer, but those on board that vessel threwhirn a rope.
The solicitor to the Steam Company said that the
defence was that the persons who were rowing the
wherry had not the necessary skill ; that the complainant
would, if he had been rowing, have prevented the acci-
dent instead of running into the jaws of danger, and that
the defendant had done everything in his power to save
the boat The Steam Company would, if a complaint of
the kind with all its accompaniments likely to engage
the sympathies of the public were successful, without
proof, be subjected to perpetual charges. The com-
plainant, too, was at the time under the influence of
some liquor different from water, although he denied it.
Morris Mathews, foremast-man of No. 3, Waterman,
stated that he was on board, and called out to those in
the wherry. The wherry, however, went to the wrong
side, and one of the passengers jumped from her into
the steamer, and then the wherry swamped. It was not
by any means the fault of the steamer.
Captain Guthrie, the master of a collier, stated that he
had been forty years at sea, and was in the steamer at
the time of the accident. The defendant did all he could

upon the occasion, but the wherry most improperly
came between the steamer and the shore. If the wherry
had been properly rowed nothing could have happened.
After hearin...; further evidence,
The LORD MAYOR said that he very particularly in-
quired into all cases of this description, as he knew that
wherries stood no chance when coming in contact with
steam-vessels. Here, however, the owner had two cir-
cumstances againzt him. He was not sober at the time,
and two m'cri who were not watermen were rowing. His
Lordship said he considered that the two men who rowed
were bound to indemnify the complainant for the loss he
had sustained, but the case was dismissed as to the de-
fendant.

The two men who thus by rowing endangered the lives
of seven individuals, have subjected themselves to heavy
penalties under the Waterman's Act, and it was stated
that it was the intention of the Company of W4termeTt
and Lightermeu to proceed against them,