The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-18 00:00:00

feeling by the violent proceedings of the An, i-Corn-law League,
he asked whether it was from -this side of the House that the

question was put to the Right Hun. Baronet if he was prepared
to maintain the corn-laws? Did not the question come from
the other side of the House? Did it not pass wholly wire-
m irked except by his Hon. Friend the Member for Kent, showing
that they (the agriculturists) were satisfied with the declarations
of the Right Hon. Baronet. Since then the Right Hon. Baronet
had brought in a Bill for the abolition of all the duties on wool.
He asked the Right Hon. Baronet in justice to say whether
the agriculturists had opposed that measure ? Had they exhi-
bited any factions opposition to it ? The Noble Lord, the
Member for
,Tiverton, had said, when any expression
of confidence was asked from the House the Govern-

ment could command a majority varying from 90 to 100.
Allusion had often been made to the division of Friday night.
He ( Mr. S. O'Brien) would aik the Government to go one
night further back, and remember the division of Thursday
last. The question then brought forward was spoken upon by
the Noble Lord the .Member for London, and against all the
strength of the Opposition they took the high Conservative,
and he might say Protestant ground, and refused to injure the
Protestant Irish Church, the majority being 95. If the Right
Hon. Gentleman compared the vote of Thursday night with the
vote of Friday night, be would find who those were who were
ready to support him. He trusted the Right Hon. Baronet
would have a long tenure of office ; and he knew it was an
object of his ambition not only to have a strong Government,
but to leave it strengthened to those who were to succeed him.
—( Groans.) But those who supported him would only sup-
port him on a principle —(Cheers)—and on all questions where
high principles are involved, the party, of whom be was proud
to number himself one—(lronical cheers)—were ready to
stand by him in spite of all taunts and obloquy.
Colonel SIBTHORP rose, but the confusion and uproar
which continued while be was addressing the House, made it
difficult to catch what he said. He was understood to say
that he was prepared to support her Majesty's Government
—( Ironical cheers )—because, having listened to the arguments
on both sides of this question, he came to the conclusion that
the motion of the Hon. Member for Bristol would neither

prove beneficial to the West Inciiainte;;;C:(6ll:oh)-1tO;
to the consumer—(Oh, oh)—nor to the revenue.—(Oh, oh.)
God forbid that the Noble Lord, the Member for North
Lanca,hire, should take a lesson from that side of the House.—

(Groans.) What position would the agriculturists of England
be in if the Noble Lord opposite came into power once more?
(Oh, ob.) He , was a stay to no Government.—(lronical
cheers)—but having bad ten years' experience of Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite, he could not have the slightest confidence in
them.—( Ironical cheers.) There were some questions in
which he differed from the Right Hon. Gentleman, but he
never gave him a more cordial support than he would give on
the present occasion.—( Groans. )
Mr. M. GIBSON rose amidst loud cries of " Divide,

divide." He said he should not detain the Committee many
minutes. He wished briefly to explain the views he was con-
strained to take of the present question. They were told by
some that this qnestion was simply whether there should be a
duty of 245. or 205., and some might take that view if they
thought fit, and there were many plausible reasons for taking
it, but on reflecting he was induced to come to this conclusion,

that the question before them was one between the extreme
protection party and the Gorernment of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman who had brought forward this proposition in order to
di.uinislt the protection of the West India interest.—
(Cries of " Oh, oh.") He might be wrong, but that was
the view which he took. The Noble Lord, the Member for

London, talked of combinations and concerts, and talked of this
as a party question on the Liberal side.—( Hear, hear.) Why,
was it anything of the kind? The Noble Lord did not invite
"them to support some Liberal measure of his own proposition,
but he wanted them to co-operate with the most uncompromising
of their opponents—(" Oh, oh," and groans)—to defeat a
measure which was looxed on as an improvement by the con-
stituency he represented, and by the great trading interest
of the country. He admitted that the measure of the Go-
vernment was not a perfect measure, but it was the only prac-
ticable reform in the present temper of the House.—e• Oh,
oh.") The Right Hon. thronet was willing to admit foreign
sugar irto competition with the West India interest, but the
protectionists said that they had no confidence in the Right
Hon. Baronet, and they propo*.d, in their own defence, to ad-
mit more foreign sugar than the Right Hon. Baronet. Now,
he did not believe they had any such object in vier.—(Hear,
hear.) He believed they meant to have a larger measure of
protection. They proposed a duty of 145., and the Govern-
ment proposed a duty of 10s. He would be most happy to vote
with the Noble Lord the Member for London, if he proposed
any broad liberal measure. But this was a question
between the Government and the West India interest.

It had been stated by the Noble Lord the Member for the
City of London, that when be (Mr. M. Gibson) asserted in
that House, the other night, that the 345. duty on what was
called white clayed sugar would apply to the large proportion
of foreign sugar available under the proposal of the Hon. Gen-
tleman, he was not correct in that assertion. Of course he
could make no such assertion founded on his own knowledge,
but be had made the assertion on the best authority ; and he
would take the liberty of reading a letter or two in his own
justification. —( Cries of" Oh. oh,") If he were not permitted to
do this, he should move to report progress. —( Hear.) ( The Hon.
and Learned Member then read a letter from Mr. Peter Marti-
neau, a gentleman connected with the sugar trade, stating that
the effect of Mr. Miles's motion would be to entail an addi-
tional protective duty of 4s. on a very large proportion of the
foreign free-labour sugar.) The leading men in the City of Con-
servative politics said that the Java sugar would all come under
the denomination of clayed, or white clayed sugar, and would be
subject to the high duty of 345. per cwt. ( The Hon. Member
alsoread a letter from Messrs. Thorn'on and West to the same
effect.) He had several other letters from gentlemen, who all
concurred in considering the measure of the West India interest
a demand for increased protection. He must, therefore, without

any disrespect to the Noble Lord, call upon him not to throw a
taunt of inconsistency upon himself, and thwe who voted in the
House on that occasion. They were simply desirous of pro-
curing for the country the best measure within reach, and
they were not taking this course with any desire to put them-
selves in the smallest degree in opposition to the Noble Lord
and his friends.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said the view taken by his Hon. Friend
might appear to call for some remark. There was a reduction
of duty proposed to the House, but the Member for Man.
chester, objected that that the proposal emanated from the
friends of free trade. Now what did he care for that?—
(Hear, hear.) It so happened that the West Indians conceived
that their interest coincided with that of the consumer. They
said, " If you reduce the price you increase the consumption,
and thereby enable us to get a higher price for our sugar."
Without, therefore, in the slightest degree regarding the inte-
rests of the West Indians, he was fully persuaded that the pro-
posal before the House was calculated to protect the interest
both of the West Indians and of the consumer.—( Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman and the Noble Lord opposite said
the object of those who voted in favour of the Hon. Member
for Bristol ss as inimical to the Government. He begged to
say that he bad no enmity against them, and he would at that
moment be very sorry to see them out of power. But they
had had the remarkable confession of the Minister that evening,
that with a majority of WO he was unable to carry on the ordi-
nary business of legislation.—( Hear.) The fact is, that when the
Government came into power, and incurred the responsibilities
of office, they found themselves brought into immediate
collision with a small section in this country. The present
Government bad been again and again taunted with hav-
ing come into office under the pretence that they would sup..
port protection. It will be the cry against all who shall come
into office hereafter upon the support of the same party. And,
in that, was the greatest victory of free trade, that there was
now a small section who felt that protection did not serve
them—( Hear, hear. )—and asked for low prices as the best.
means of promoting the interest of the producer as well as of
the consumer.—( Hear, hear.) That would be the case also
with the section, which ,the Hon. Member for Somertet re-
presented—the agricultural interest.—( Hear, hear.) The
supporters of the' Government need never again
complain of their leader.—(Cheers.) It was useless 1
to talk of mysterious influences at work, producing
coldness in May, discontent in June, and perhaps
open war in July.—( Cheers and laughter.) There was some
difficulty in accounting for all this. But it was one, of those
difficulties which were propounded by those who obtained a re-
putation for wisdom, by refusing to give an answer to-their"
own questions.—(Derisive cheers from the lower Tory
benches.) Gentlemen might laugh, but he had known that
principle to be carried out through works of fiction of three
volumes extent.—( Cheers and laughter.) The support of the
Government might be accounted for by a reference to the teat
from which a Rev. Prelate preached a sermon before a great
Minister (Mr. Pitt), when be was elected Member for the
University of Cambridge :—" There is a lad amongst us who
has five barley•loaves and three small fishes; but what is that
amongst so many."—( Great laughter.)
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, • and the Com-
mittee divided, when there appeared—
For Mr. Miles' motion 233
Against it
Majority for Ministers
The announcement of the numbers was received with loud
Ministerial cheers.
On our admission into the gallery we found,
Mr. MILES on his legs, stating, that as the Committee was
against his motion, he should not persevere.
The Bill then passed through Committee pro forma and the
Honse resumed.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. WARBURTON wished to know the order in which the
business would be taken to-morrow (this day)?
Sir R. PEEL desired to know whether Hon. Gentlemen
intended to persevere in the motions of which they had given
notice before he could fix the order of the business ?
Mr. HUTT would bring forward the motion of which he
had given notice en the subject of soap, if there were a House,
which in the present excited state of the public mind, he
scarcely thought would be the case.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if
the Hon. Member did not expect a House, perhaps he would
abandon his motion.
Mr. HUTT considered the subject of so much importance,
that he could not consent to put off his motion.
Sir R. PEEL would take the Dissenters' Chapels Bill after
the Sugar Bill on Thursday, and the Bank Charter Bill on
Friday.
Mr. WYSE had a motion on the paper relative to the
system of education at Maynooth. He wished to know when
it was likely the grant for 11layneoth would be brought on, in.
order, if possible, to avoid two debates on the same subject?
Sir R. PEEL considered that the Dissenters' Chapels Bill
and the Bank Charter Bill were measures of so much im-
portance, that he thought it better to proceed with them first,
and afterwards he would fix a day for the Maynooth grant.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE had understood that Thursday was
fixed for the New Poor-law discussion. lie supposed that it
was to be postponed again.—(Hear, hear.) Now, with regard
to the Sugar Duties 13.11, why did they not proceed with it at
once. instead of going through the farce of a discussion ? Let
the Chairman report progress, and have the Bill read a third
time at onee. Where was the use of this farce, if, atter the
House had decided a clause, a Minister was to get up and say,
" If you do not rescind your vo'e I will resign ?"—(A laugh.)
It would be better to proceed at once with the Bill.
Sir 11. PEEL would be glad to proceed as speedily as possi-
ble, but the third clause had been put off to suit the conveni-
ence of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE—Why not rescind the vote you have
just come to. and go on at once ?—(Latioelter. )
Sir R. PEEL, in answer to a question from Mr. Duncombe,
said he leas at present unable to tix the precise time on which
the Poor Law Amendment Bill would he introduced.
The Limitation of Actions (Ireland) Bill was then read a
third time.
On the motion for the farther consideration of the Lords'
Amendments to the Night Poaching Bill,
Mr. WARBURTON said that these amendments had been
only in the hands of Members that morning, and he moved the
further consideration of the Bill be postponed till to-morrow
(this day).
After a short conversation, the House divided on the motion,
when there appeared—
For the adjournment of the question 5
Against it
Majority
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. WALLACE consenting to postpone the further consi-
deration of the Bill till to-morrow (this day).
RAILWAYS.
Mr. GLADSTONE broueht in a Bill to attach certain con-
ditions to the construction of future railways, authorised, or to
be authorised, by any Act of the present or succeeding sessions
of Parliament, and for other purposes in relation to railways,
which was read a first time.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter before One o'Clock.