The Sun.
London, England, 1828-06-11 00:00:00

reedy consistent with the view which I take of this sub-
ject, to admit, that, in the_Acts of which I am speaking,

our ancestors took wise and by no means unnecessary pre-
cautions to prevent intercourse between the petnite of, this
country and the Papal Power—for then all that power was
at its height, and danger was apprehended from it, as
well from the circumstances in which itself then stood, as

from the peculiar circumstances and situation of this coun-
try. There did not exist then the same facilities for in-
ternal couounication, which we now so fortunately enjoy
by means of trade, and through the rapid advancement of
society—that trade to which we owe so much,' -Vas in the

fieriotis of which I am speaking treated with obloquy, not
fo Say dontempt. From the facilities of intercourse which
that trade has' created, and froM the new class in society
which it has called into existence, safeguards are given to
the Constitution, of. whieh•our "etiCOst.ors could inwe had
no conception. Put, my Lords, a new power has
sprung .0,, of which our ancestors were equally ignorant'
I allude to.the Press—that power of which all autho-
rities stand 'in awe—that power, which is the guardian of
the rights of the people .and the dread of tyrants._
Stu•ely when such a power, against encroachments made dui,
ing the dark ages by bigotry, has been able once to destroy
it in this country, it will be our fault ifits return is allowed,
and then we May, see what chance there eyer can be-of
the revival of Papal influence in this country. .1 am well
aware. that the times haVe peculiarly changed, and so too
will your Lordships -he when I am allowed to call your at-
tention to What I must betleliCate in alluding to before some'
Noble Peers--I mean the " march of intellect"—(llear,
hear,)—a march which I admire and feel pleasure in, be-
cause. I ant sure if the instruction and improvement of the •
lmVerordersot society he perseVered in, anti that the higher
class•Cs ttike care, with the superior opportunities. open to
thew, to increase their knowledge in proportion, the facili-
ties of the present day will tend to their elevation instead of
that depression which is apprehended. In returning to
former periods it is a melancholy refleCtion that in the times
of Edward VI. and Jaws there should have Leen a
contention between Christians of different sects, and it is
lamentable to think that id the chronicles of our history,
Anabaptists and Arians were burned and butchered ter the
love of ,Q9d, Since those times, however, great changes
have taken place, and it is a satisfaction to know that every
nation, on the Continent, with the exception of Spain and
Portugal, profess and practice other doctrines, and that the
great principle has been secured by the tact great act, upon
which congratulate the Noble .-Duke opposite, who was 'a
pasty at the Congress where it was achieved, for giving
• equal civil and political rights to all classes,withotit distinct-,
tion of creed. Are we then-to be the last who were formerly
the. first, in this glorious race of liberty—we, who when any
individual was persecuted,.atforded him not only a domicile
but permitted to hint the use of whatever profession he had
been brought up in, to which noble principle Wu are ire-

. _
lebted for that trade anti those manufactures which now 'to

flourish, and render us the glory and the envy of Europe,
and which I do most sincerely believe to be a divine recom-
pencr bestowed upon tl+:4‘.. country for her eonduct.--(Hear.)
—I must believe then, thattleur Lordships have a disposi-
tion to go into that 'inquiry which my Noble Friend pro-.
poses. Many Noble persons ask what securities are we to
have, and to them I answer, are you .piepared to grant„for
if yon are not prepared to grant,"what right have yest to
ask for securities ? Those who ask this question may be
compared to a man who should ask another " are you pre-
pared to give me your daughter?"' to which, if I were the
man, I shook! reply, " in the first place tell me are you
prepared to marry her ?"—(year and laughter.) I.do not
tell your Lordships what you 'ought to ask, but if you de-
vise regulations which the Roman Catholics have the power
to agree to, and 'you the right to demand, then I say that
they will be wrong to refuse, and also perhaps that you
will not be right in demanding securities to the full amount
that may be &cum! necessary. But upon this subject,
although Ido not perfectly know the quotation, ,I will yet
refer to the expression made use of by a Right Rev. Pre-
late on the occasion of the Test and Corporation Acts,
namely, that "if securities can be made secure I can see
no reason why the Catholics should not be entitled to what
they seek." Itrihe Act of 1'793, and this I speak advised-
ly, an oath was framed for the Roman Catholics by Dr.
Duigenan, who was consistent in his hostility to them,' and
than whom there was no man more anxious to throw every
difficulty in their way. This oath, I say, which is to be
taken by the Catholics, is just the same with that declara-
tion with which we are satisfied on the part of the Dissen-

term, the sole distinction being, .that the declaration of the
Catholics is qualified by an oath. This, then, is one secu-
rity ; and if we are not satisfied with thi=s why, the result
is, that we cannot believe 'them on their Oaths. • lf, tbsn,
we cannot repose confidence in them, why, can they not
take that oath with ease, which is imposed by the 30th
Charles 11. ? This calls ine.to another part of the subjeet,,
to which I beg to draw your Lordships' attention, namely,
that in the Act of Union with Scotland;'where that Gir
is particularly recited, and extends to Scotland, with, an
express reservation, " until Parliament shall otherwise de-
termine." In the Act of flnion with Ireland it is, I be-
lieve, different. Before going farther, I would ask whe-
ther those who paned the, Act of 1705, had any thing to
do with the declaration of MSS ? The question is, were
there any • Members of the Parliament of 1668 sitting at
that period ? and I say there were ; for I looked par-
ticularly to the subject, and sew that there were. Look-
ing then to this question, as it bears on the Coronation
Oath. I say also that the same reservation is made with.
respect to that. 'Harley was then the Sovereign, ' far he
was the Sovereign's adviser; and the very insertion of the
proviso, until alteration should be made, necessarily implies
the power to alter ,• for when it is said,' ‘• until Parliament
shall determine upon an alteration," these very words re-
cognise the power to be vested in them, and that power
also recognised by the Sovereign. I therefore say, that
this part of the question it nailed here ; hut in arguing in
this way, I feel, in my peculiar situation, that I have dif-
fered front one now no more, for whom I entertained the
highest sentiments both of respect and affection. I will
not now talk of that affection ; but, great as were my feel-
ings in this way towards the lamented individual to whom
I allude, and much as I reverence his memory, I still cannot
close my eyes to the imperfect groundson which he founded
the declaration he once made in this House, which lie, I
have no doubt, made most conseientionsly ; but this being
my impression with respect to his declaration on that ocea-
sion, I feel that it is my duty to my country, to myself,
and to my Maker, openly and explicitly to state my Own
opinions and ti..elings on the subject. - I never sought 14
disciples, as • I saw my own way, on'constitutional princi-
ples, on which alone I have ever wished this question to be
argued. I never canvassed any individual, nor ever at-
tempted to make a proselyte, but went straight forward on
my path, without-inducing any other traveller to leaVe his
road ; but WI met one going the same way, I think I should
be hardly used if I were blamed for greeting him, and en-
deavouring to.help the traveller on his journey. The time
may conic when the .settlement of this question will be ne-
crssary ; indeed, when it. will he a matter of imperious ne-
cessity, because, from what we know has occurred, there is
no standing still, and we must either go thrd-ard or turn
back. To go back will be destruction, and I appeal to Neble
Lords who have hied experience, whether we have not tried
the present system for-26 years since the Union. Yes, dur-
ing 28 years of Union, but of what kind has that Union been?
A Union in name, a constitution -in name, but a discord
and anything but a constitution in fact. lam afraid
openly to state what 1 think, but I will say, that it' we
had fibt 301000 soldiera.and-6,0110. poliee.in Ireland, we
could not go on:---and then, indeed, to talk of the British
Constitution !---(Cheers.)-1 do not like to shrink from
avowing 'my opinions—l wish to tell them fairly and man-
fully, and not to shy the question, and, therefore, I sin
of opinion, that all that has been done lately on this sub-
ject is merely the trying of experiments; and without
meaning the least disrespect to the Noble Duke opposite,
I will say that I do not like to see such experiments tried.
Then, if the question is to be tried on the old objection of
Catholics wishing to recover the properties of their ances-
tors, I shall merely refer to the answer-given by Mr.'
O'Connell on hie. examination ,hefore.tlie•Ctimmittee.---
When he was asked what was the conditiOn of property in
Ireland, be said I think it is best where it is ; and his
reason when examined on it was, "because I have'botielit
some of it myself, and should be very much averse to any
measure that would take it away Iron me." •An4ther fear en-
tertained is, with respect to tithes, but the people know very
well that if-tithes are taken away, it will only make their
rents so much, the higher, and that they would Only be in
the condition of a man who, in renting an estate, will
take it at 7001. a-year, if the game is to be preserved, while
if it is not to Sie preserved, he Will have to pay 9001. or
10001. I shall, therefore, concur its my-Noble Friend's
Fretion ; and I do say, although with the utmost respect,
that sontepiing must be done to settle this question. Dis-
cussion has been alsO objected to, but I cannot agile in
the correctness of those who argpe in this way, for I ant
enevineed that, far from irritating, it will do a vast deal
af good. Indeed, I should rather say, that the Catholics
bad too good taste to be displeased with any thing that has
occurred in 'this debate, or with any of those who have op-
posed
ie4,th
jetiosi,huealc,cellitd"plesraitiaahpsi.onfoei,eryeorusornaro,aullto brought
-..aoraa,t.ps to tenn-
i bat with the Virgin Mary. linked I timid: the .Right
peverand Bench for the. temper and the discretion-they
)lave exhibited,-which hest' been worthy of the dignity of
fhe.t,tation they occupy; and MakeS it a merit in any man
to pay them that respect to which they have so well en-
titled themselves in the eyes of the country. I feel I have
1 a Iva y trespassed too long on the patience of your Lord-