The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-11 00:00:00

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ment going to declare that what had happened with atoor,A
would happen with corn—(Hear, hear)—but he said some.
If 0,
, j‘
thing else—not corn.—(Hear, hear.) And when he (Mr. '
Villiers) brought forward—as he should do—hie motion for
the repeal of the corn-laws, the Right Hon. Gentleman would •
find some peculiar circumstances that distinguished wool from
corn.--( Hear, hear.) He hoped the public would read that
part of the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech, which was as
good a free-trade argument as he had ever heard, and satisfy
themselves whether there was any justice in continuing this
additional tax, and whether or not they ought not to resolve,
with his Hon. Friend, that as the tax was to be perpetual--
and perpetual it must be if the corn-laws existed—they ought
not to make it as just and as little odious as possible?
Mr. MIJNTZ said the Hon. Member for Stockport had
referred to him to confirm a statement contained in a letter
from Birmingham. He could not confirm' it further than
this, that he knew there was such a person living in Birming-
ham. But he could confirm the assertion, that from the mode
of proceeding, the income-tax was not very popular in that
town. The income-tax, if not to be eternal, would evidently
be of long duration, for they had heard that if it was not im-
posed, they must raise three millions another way. When it
was imposed, the Right Hon. Gentleman hoped that the
elasticity of the country would enable him to dispense with it.
He was always frightened when he heard a Minister talk about
the elasticity of the resources of the country. But it had not
come into operation ; and without the income-tax there
would not only be a deficiency, but the revenue
would be in a state of great depression. The diffi-
culty was the taking from one class to give to another. If
the Right Hon. Baronet could do that, he would do a great
deal, but he doubted, even with the property-tax, whether the
Right Hon. Baronet, with all his ingenuity, would be able to
effect it. Another reason for his rising was to notice what
seemed a wilful misrepresentation in one of the evening prints
—the House would stop hire if he were irregular. It was there
stated that he said the Right Hon. Baronet had improved the
condition of one class of society by taking from another—taking
from the rich to give it to the poor. He distinctly stated that
the Right lion. Baronet had taken from the agricultural inte-
rest to give to the manufacturing. By the agricultural interest
he did not mean the landlords, but the working class, amongst
whom the greatest distress prevailed. He was still of
the same opinion. He would not keep the House
long, but it was necessary for him to say some.
thing.—( Great laughter.) He meant necessary for him
to set himself right before the public—net to enlighten the
British House of Commons.—( Hear, hear. ) A disease per-
vaded the benches upon which he (Mr. Muniz) sat to a great
extent. There was a free trade mania, which raged so tre-
mendously-that the very mention of the word free" was
eagerly caught by Hon. Gentlemen near him, and he verily
believed that if the Right Hon. Gentleman had declared they
were free to hang themselves, these gentlemen would say it
was a step in the right direction.—( Roars of laughter.) They
caught up those declarations with great avidity, and did not
give themselves time to consider the real tendency of the mea-
sures proposed by Government. Regarding the tax itself, he
was now of the same opinion as he had expressed the other
eight—he would vote for a property-tax, but was entirely ad-
verse to an income-tax. lie thought a pfoperty-tax a salu-
tary measure under existing circumstances.
The House then divided, when these appeared—
For the amendment
Against it

Aajority against the amendment .. -128
THE POWER OF APPEAL UNDER THE INCOME.
TAX.
_ _

On the gallery being re-opened,
Mr. MILES was moving his amendment, " That from and
after the passing of this Act, it shall be lawful for all persons
assessed under schedule (B), should they feel themselves
aggrieved by such assessment, to appeal to the Commissioners
for General Purposes, ten days' notice thereof in writing being
given to the assessor or surveyor of the district; and the said
Commissioners are hereby empowered to hear and determine
such appeal, under the rules and regulations for appeals under
schedule (D), in the aforesaid recited Act ; provided that no
person so appealing shall be charged by the aforesaid Commis-
sioners more than the sum of threepence-halfpenny in
England, and twopence-halfpenny in Scotland, for
every twenty shillings of the property he occupies."
The Right Hon. Baronet had taken from the agricultural
tenantry of England the profits they, had till that time enjoyed,
and yet he added to their burdens by the present income-tax.
If the tax were proved to he bad, why should they not amend
it? What mattered it whether it were to be continued for a
longer or shorter period? He could give them an instance of the
operation of this tax on tenant-farmers. He knew a friend
who possessed six or seven hundred acres of land, and upon
every hundred acres he had expended a capital of 7001. While
he was in possession of this farm he married a lady possessed of
considerable property in the funds. He paid the income_tax
in the first year without disturbing this property, but in the
last year he was obliged to draw 6001., and this year he would
have to draw other 6001. from money which he intended should
remain to accumulate for the benefit of his children. It was
right and just that they should have the allowance he required,
made to them, and he therefore asked that a power should be
inserted in the Bill to enable them, when they were surcharged
to submit their accounts to the revision of the authorised,
Commissioners.

The clause was then brought up and read a first time.
On the question being put of the second reading,
The CHANCELLOR of the EX CIIEQUER rose and
said, he thought he should best consult the feelings of the
House at that late period of the night if he simply confined
himself to the statement of his Hon. Friend, and the reasons
which would induce him not to accede to his proposition. His
Hon. Friend proposed that the tenants of land should be per.
mitted in case of their profits being mis-stated to appeal
to the Commissioners and obtain an abatement of their
proportion of the tax. Now it appeared to him that the ar-
rangement would be essentially unjust. The House would
bear in mind the circumstances under which the assessment
upon tenant-farmers was made. A specific rate was always
imposed upon them according to the amount of their rental.
It was stated, when the measure was first introduced, that
persons engaged in farming land, found it extremely difficult to
keep the same books of account as traders and professional
men. It was therefore judged advisable to take a limited pro.
portion of the rent, and in the first instance, the amount was
at three-fourths the annual rental paid to the landlord. This was
agreed to in 1816, but in 1842 the amount was reduced to one-
half the rent, and the same provision was made in the Bill nosy
before the House. His Hon. Friend asked the House to allow
the tenant-farmer the right of appeal in cases where he sus-
tained loss, but his lion. Friend did not say that any addition
should be given to the public for increased profits. He did
not pretend to have a very extensive knowledge
of farming, but he was perfectly well aware
that a farmer often increased his expenditure in one year in
anticipation of augmenting his income in the succeeding year ;
and hence, if the Hon. Member's amendment were agreed to,
it would be attended with serious loss to the Exchequer. His
lion. Friend would bear in mind that no tenant was assessed
whose rental was less than 360/., and this was an advantage
given to no other trade or profession. Under these circum-
stances, he must resist the second reading of the clause.
The House then divided, when there appeared.
For the amendment
Against it
Majority fur Ministers
On the re-admission of strangers, we found
Mr. SPOONER bringing forward the amendment of which
he had given notice, relating to certain deductions to be made
from the income-tax assessment for poor and local rates, and
other expenditure.
Mr. HUTT begged leave to suggest to the Hon. Member
for Birmingham that it would be expedient to propose the
amendment at another stage of the Bill, so as :not to interfere
with the progress of those measures remaining to be disposed
of in the Committee of Ways and Means, by the delay of
which much inconvenience was occasioned to trade.
Sir R. PEEL felt that the delay of the final determination
of the House upon the export duty of coal, for instance, was
a great inconvenience. The Hon. Member for Birmingham
might allow the Committee of Ways and Means to proceed to-
night, and move his amendment en the third reading of the
Bill on Wednesday.
Mr. SPOONER did not wish to stand in the way of public
business, and would act urea the suggestion of the Right Hon.
Baronet.

After some cor:versation, very imperfectly heard in the
gallery
Mr.. WA KLEY also postponed to Wednesday (on the third
reading of the Bill), the amendment of which he had given
notice.

Mr. Feasma and Sir R. H. Isaus likewise postponed
their amendments.

Mr. GREENE then brought up the report, which wLs read
and received, and ordered to be engrossed.
The House then went through a Committee of Ways and
Means.

Colonel SIBTHORP moved that returns moved for on the
7th of February, respecting the Poor Law Commissioners ;
Feb. 19, Comptroller of the Exchequer ; Feb. 21, Fire In-
surance, be forthwith laid on the table.—Ordered.
Mr. HUME moved for a copy of the orders of the Govern-
ment of India for the establishment of the Council of Educa-
tion in Bengal, and at the other presidencies ; also a return of
the establishments maintained in 1843 for the promotion of
education amongst the natives of British India, and the sala-
ries and expense of the same ; also, a statement of the funds
supplied by the Indian Government, and from other sources,
for the support of education in British India, and the expendi-
ture of the same, under separate heads, at each of the several
Presidencies; also, a return of the names of distributors and
sub-distributors of stamps, in England and Scotland, the dates
of their appointments, the amount of security given by each,
the rate per cent., and the amount of per centage paid to them
severally in the year 1844 (to correspond with Parliamentary
Paper, No. 364, of Session 1834 ).—Ordered.
GA ME- LAWS.
Mr. BRIGHT moved far the appointment of the following
Members, as a Select Committee on the game-laws :—Mr.
Bright, Mr. Burroughes, Lord George Bentinck, Mr. Milner
Gibson, Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Cripps, Viscount Clive, Mr. Wil-
liam Mackenzie, Mr. Villiers, Mr. Bankes, Mr. Etwall, Mr.
Grantlev Berkeley, Mr. Manners Sutton, Mr. George Caven-
dish, and Mr. Trelawney.
Mr. C. BERKELEY rose to move as an amendment—
That the names of Viscount Palmerston and Mr. Gregory be
inserted in place of Mr. George Cavendish and Mr. Beuverie.
The Hon. Member said he thought he had reason to complain
of the Right Hon. Baronet ,the Secretary of State for the
Home Department with regard to the constitution of the
Committee. It would be in the recollection of the House that,
during the discussion which took place on the motion of the
Hon. Member for Durham, he told the Right Hon.
.Baronet
(Sir J. Graham) that he would accede to the appointment,
provided the appointments were constituted in a fair and Im-
partial manner. Now he must say that a more unfair
or partial Committee he could not conceive. It was
perfectly true that the names of three gentlemen
had been taken fro the list, and three others substituted.
lie thought it requisite that three of those Members should be
omitted and three others substituted. Of two of those three
he knew nothing, but of the other he happened to know some-
thing, he meant the Hon. Member for Lynn (Lord G. Ben-
tinck), of that lion. Member he must say that he deemed him
a very improper partial person. He never attended quarter
sessions.—(Hear, hear.) He knew little and cared less about
the circumstances of the country and how they were conducted.
—( Laughter on all sides of the House.) He (Mr. Craven
Berkeley) thought this Committee ought to be put on an im-
partial and equitable footing—( Hear, hear)—and he did not
think that that Noble Lord's partiality for the turf and racing
pent at all to neutralze his hostility to that little
animal for whose mining operations the Hon. Member for
Durham (Mr. Bright) the other night expressed such a regard.
He did not wish to see the Committee composed of Anti-Corn-
law leaguers and game preservers, but he thought that others
ought to be added who were known for their impartiality, at-
tention, and ability. For this reason he should move that the
name of the Hon. Member for Kilmarnock should be erased,
and that of the Member fir Dublin substituted.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that he did not think that
there was any reason to complain of his conduct in the nomina.
Lion of this Committee. It had been his earnest desire, both in
public and private, and in everything he had said, that this
Committee should be impartial. And he must say that in
this matter the Hon. Member for Durham (Mr. Bright) had
met him in a spirit of similar good will and right feeling.
Ile said, in justice to that lion. Gentleman, that he had never
been concerned in the formation of a committee which bad
been proceeded with in so unexceptionable manner as it had
been conducted by the Hon. Gentleman. The Hon. Gentle-
man moved the Committee. It was usual that the mover of a
Committee shouldjdemand that a majority of Members of his:own.
way of thinking should be placed on that Committee. He (Sir
James Graham) wished that a Memb,r of the Government
should be en the Committee. His posii Jn precluded him.from