The Sun.
London, England, 1828-05-21 00:00:00

USURY LAWS.

Mr. POULET THOMPSON said, he was aware
of the difficulties which he had to contend with in rising
to address the Home in support of the motion of which he
had given notice. In the first place he was aware that
the question of the Usury Laws had been so often dis-
eusaed in that House, that it was impossible for him to
urge any argument which could appear new to the House,
and he had at one time thought that the best plan which
he could adopt wan to submit at once to the House the
stature of the attentions which he intended to propose, and
to abstain from going into the general system of the usury
Iowa; but upon further consideration he thought, that as the
question bad not undergone any discussion during this Ses-
sion, it would be unwise in hint to adopt a plan which might
have the effect of depriving him of the support of some
Honourable Members, who opposed a total alteration
of the law, but who might be disposed to adopt a
partial alteration of the present system. He asked
the indulgence of the House, because he felt that he was
fairly open to the charge of presumption in originating a
measure while he was so little able to take part in
measures brought forward by others, but he trusted
that his firm conviction of the necessity of an alte
ration of those laws, and the nature of his
avocations, which gave him an opportunity of knowing
the vexation and tnivety which those laws inflicted upon
society, would be suffic:eot excuse for his venturing to
offer a. few observations to the House. It would be in
the tecollection of the Douse that in ISIS, a Committee
was appointed to examine into the state of those laws, and
to take evidence and snake a report to the House ; and
although be should he much better pleased that this ques-
tion had been brought forward by the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman (Serjeaut Onslsw) who had first
advocated an alloration in those laws, and whose advocacy
had done hint so much honour ; or that his Majesty's Go-
vernment had, by bringing forward this measure, redeemed
the pledge which they had given when the report was
made, still as Government had not done so he felt that he
was not exceeding the province of an independent Member
of Parliament iu bringing forward a partial measure,
which would secure hint the support net only of those
who advocated the general measure, but of those who,
from a mistaken sense of duty, bad opposed a complete alter-
ation of those law a. Whatever might be his own defi-
ciency he felt great confidence when he looked at the
evidence, and the report of a Committee composed of all
parties, and at the names which formed the Committee. Out
of twenty-one witnesses examined before the Committee,
eighteen had given it as their decided opinion that those
laws were inoperative for the purposes fur which they
were passed, and were only operative for mischief, and
ought to be repealed ; of the other three persons of a dif-
ferent opinion, one was Mr. Gurney, a gentleman whose
opinion in matters of this kind was entitled to the highest
respect. Although that gentleman at the time was opposed
to the repeal of those laws, he had since changed his opi-
nion ; and had, with that candour which did hint honour,
authorised hint (Mr. T.) to state to the House, that it
now called to the Bar, or helot e a Committee, he would
in consequence of the experience derived during a period
of considerable pecuniary difficulty, namely, the year 18t5,
give different evidence from what he had formerly given.
As the Report of the Committee was clear and decisive
upon the point, he trusted that Honourable Members
would read it before they voted against his proposition. The
report was divided into three parts—the first said that the
laws were loaded and must continue to be so ; secondly,
that they were most mischievous in their operations on so-
ciety; and thirdly, that the present time (1818) which
resembles this year, when the rate of interest was lower than
the legal rate, was the best opportunity for carrying the re-
peal. His confidence in the success of the motion was in-
-creased when be looked upon the names of the minority
on the second reading of the Bill, and in the Com-
mittee. The names consisted of—the present Colonial
Secretary, the President of the Board of Trade, and the
Master of the Mint. In addition to those, be had the names
of Government, with one exception, and if the House wished
for more authority en the subject he must refer them to the
words used by Lord Liverpool, in the House of Lords, in
1826. "He was aware that there were obstacles ex.•
istingin
ofthe way of abrogating those laws, in con-
sequence their bearing upon particular interests,
bat their Lordships must he satisfied that the day was not
far distant when they must of necessity give their best con-
sideration to the subject. The question was one of diffi-
culty ; bat the present state of the law could not be de-
fended on any sound principle." Thetlon. Member then
having said it was not his intention to go into a history of
those laws which were not enacted upon any political or
commercial, but merely upon religious grounds, at a pe-
riod when it was thought wrong to take interest
for money, or to use the language of those days,
when money was " a barren commodity, and could not
fructify," contended, that if the object of the laws was to
prevent prodigality, that object had failed, and most ruinous
events had followed. He adverted to the advertisements in
the newspapers for the express purpose of evading those laws,
and to the case of Howard and Gibbs,who derived an income
of 25,0001. a year, by lending money in evasion of those laws.
As an instanee of the impolicy of interfering •by legal enact-
ment with the interest of money, the Hon. Gentleman slid
that in Livonia, where he had spent part of his life, the
market interest of money was 6 per cent., whilst the legal
interest was also the same. The wise legislature of that
country, however, thought proper to reduce the legal in-
terest from six to five per cent., and the consequence ww„
that the real interest rose almost immediately to seven
per cent.—( Hear, hear.) He had been informed of a
case which occurred in this country in 1816, and as it
was strongly exhibitive of the mischievous effects of the
Usury Laws, he would state it to the Mouse. A gen-
tleman of landed property, valued at 18,0001.,
wasted
to borrow on it 8,000/. ; but as he could get nothing
in the market at five per cent. he was (Adige()
o have
The arrangement was
a long time in operation, and it happened that before the
affair was finally arranged, the price of stocks rose t:o.e recourse
to
lend to an u
sold
consi-
derably, and the lender insisted that the difference should be
da out annuity.
toitc)k.
the u.e.. The gentleman who had
made up by time borrower. The amount of the annuity
was 7761. which was at the rate of ten per cent. per an-
num. The difference between the price for which
the stock sold, and what it would bring was 1,200/.
The law expenses amounted to 5041., so that the
gentleman actually received only 6,2961. for the annuity.
In Hamburgh, where the landed interest were still more
in the habit of mortgaging their estates than here, there
was no legal rate of interest fixed, and the consequence
was, that it was in general snore steady than in other
countries, though eometiinee, in cases of extravrdinary