The Sun.
London, England, 1821-02-22 00:00:00

fat( "Member efrir, VergusotO, in declitilt:g to
bring forwardany motion, re4qiye-to the Milan
Comm4:::"..rftcr the experience he had had of
the cop-Oct o 1 that,House, from. the late divi-
sion-A....
,thi, at bject of Ahotse-diOsion's he did.
not -desire to express any opinion ; he should'
'wive them to be judited by the country and by
posteri ty—(Clieers; from. the 0 p'position.)-2-Thel'i.
conduct justified the observations of his Gallant
Friend: lie would make..
_but .one observation_
more on the subject of the. Milan Commission :
he knew nothing personalty of it ; all he knew
was, that there was a general suspicion with 're-
:spect to it,,,which.wa, not confined.to any party.
in that House; but pervaded the Whole of Eu-
rope. He was, :therefo:.,,,. somewhat astonished
that persons holdinp a most respectable' Station in
Society, and from what he had' heard of most re-
spectable characters, should not wish to clear
themselvesr:=tip, the imputations cast upon them.
jle nsioniShed that they did not claim it from
the. justice of 'Parliament, that •an investigation
should be appointed into -their conduct, whether
to vindicate them of:not from those opinions en-
tertained with respect to them. He did not wish
to wound the feelings of any individuals ; but he
was still more asioniShed that his Majesty's
Ministers, -Who were deeply Implicated in the
object of 'the inquiry,_ should be 'backward in'
instituting it, and allege expense as the apo-
logy. He believed that nothing -.was so cheap-
ly purchased as the :.honottr and ;character of
a Government. They had often paid pretty
largely for the reverse of thern,'and he thought
the house might- spare a small sum to re-
.
move the stains cast upon the present Adminis.
tration of this Country-by the Milan Commission.
Lord C.A.TLEIi.E.AOI thought the observations
of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman Wl-
ecessary and uncalled 'for on the present occa-
sion. If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman and
his Gallant .r.riend, did not wish to provoke dis-
cussion, he thought they should have abstained
from casting Obloquy on his Majesty's GO'vern-
ment,' or on any other persons. At the same
time that the non-. and Learned Gentleman de-
clared
that he did' not wish to wound the feelings
of any indiViduals, he (Lord Castlereagh) did
not think he was practiSingthe most liberal treat-
tnent'towards persons who were not present to
answer for theinSelves. Ile could assure the

Ilion. and Learned Gentleman, and perhaps he
already knew it from his intercourse with the in-
dividuals, that it was impossible for any one to
lie more anxious than they were for an inquiry
into their conduct. ..But he apprehended that it
was-not according to the principles of Parliamen,
tary practice to institute any such inquiry. At
the same time,-he could not see that these indivi-
duals were more exposed to suspicion than the
Sheriff whO was brouglit before them the. night
before was exposed to obloquy.and suspicion for_
the charges brouOt against him. Nor did he,

think it necessary that the Milan Comtrission
should undergo an investigation in t:tat House,
any more than any individual against whom an
accusation was preferred which had grown out of
doors, was bound to come to 'that House for his
purgation.—(Hear !)
i%lr. BEsNirT observed. that the evidence which
had transpired at the i3ar of the other Rouse
went to prove that 3 talian Agents of this Govern-
ment had entered into subornation of perjury.
This being the case, he thought it ought not to be
the wish of the Milan Commissioners alone to have

their conduct
_investigated ; but if there were a
spark of honour or honesty, would nothis Lia-
jesty's Ministers come down to this House and
dernaryl it also, instead of alleging the expense of
such an inquiry as the reason for not entering
upon it ? Talking of expense, would to God they
had considered, not only the expense, but the
character of the country, when they sent out this
roving cominbsion !—The petition was then
brought up, and ordered to be printed.
Sir R. FEitsusoN- presented a Petition from

the Royal Burgh of Dysart, in Scotland, and the
adjacent parishes, praying for a Parliamentary
Inquiry into the circumstances originating in the
late proceedings against the Queen.—Ordered
to be printed. ,

Mr. TlEas EY postponed the motion of an Hon.
and Learned Friend of his, relative to the con-
nexion- of a Member of that House with the
High Court of Chancery, to the 'lst of March.

NA P I,Pg

The SPEAKER having called upon Sir JAMt3
MACKINTOSH, whose motion stood next upon
the Orders of the Day,
Mr. WYNNE rose, and asked if the Honour-
able and Learned Gentleman would consent to
Permit him to bring forward a short motion,
which stood lower down upon the list. Re pro-
mised not to detain the House long.

This proposition was succeeded by cries of
" No, no !" and calls upon _Sir J. MACKINTOSH
and Air. Y N NE. The latter at length giving
way,

Sir T. MACICINTOSTI proceeded—He assured

Ithe Hon. Gent. that he did not-rise.oal any in-
disposition on his part to show every courtesy to
the HonoUrable Gentleman, and indeed, had he
followed his own desire, he should certainly have
yielded to him. The truth was,, that he had
~many reasons for wishing to postpone his mo-
tion ; but as these were in favour of duties in-
ferior to that he was about to perform, his feeling
of the importance and urgency of the matter he
was about to bring under the consideration of the
Muse got the better, and convinced him that he
was not at liberty to post pone his present tnption.
The. delay ~Which had occurred since he gave no-
tice of his motion, had afforded him an opportu-
,
in a way which he need not mention, of
ascertaining what were the ntentions of all parties
With, regard 'to the iluestion to which he, intend-
ed to. call the attention of the House. SinCe that
time circUrnst2nces had transpired of the roostes-
aentfa itnpnitaiwe, not only with respect to the
knoWiedge of the principles upon which the
partie.s acted;
,but which respected the well
beio..g of this and of every other coon-.
try which still retained the name of •li-
berty. It was very obvious that he alluded
to 'the proceedings
,of Austria against . Naples
every stage if which bore the stamp of the most
unprovoked and unprincipled ag,gression of ,an
unauthorized power. Natters bad no4':assil;ned

an:appearance which it *as impossibse to foresee
at any of its preceding stages. Since he had
given his notice war had been -commenced, and
perhaps ere this conclnded, aaainsi that nation.
His opinion, however, on the s'ibject did not de-
pend on the course of events. Though the whole
of the Neapolitan'territory 5h0.:11.3 he again over.
run from the north and east.of Europe—thcaah
the great Potentates of the North 'shard poor
forth their cooutless myriads through!. tine Alps
to-the Faro of Messina, it IVOIII !IV, alter his
opinion with respect to his motioss. ne conceived
whether they triumphed or ittsarin the attempt, it
behoved every other nation- to take up the cause
of another which- it Was attempted to trample
under foot: In prosaortion as istjury and wrong
was threatutseelh 'one nation, it behoved this
country to interfere, to prevent 1L That House
especially was bound to sliest,. that it took no
share, nor ever countenanced such dishonOu sable
acts. If a war had been conceived, which, re-
gardless; of its success or failure, would in his opi-
oioo causeathe torch Of civil dissention to blaze
forth again throughout all Europe, he thought it
was'the duty of this 'HouSe to see haw far his
Majeky's Ministers had dischatged their duty in
doing the utmost to quench the flame. What-
ever might be the fate of the'Neapolitans in this
contest, it should tint deter them from purpling
that course. 'Undoubtedly they had but little
chaneesof .success 'in contending against disci-
plined::arniies and superiority of ,tnnbers, and
tho-ugh:fhe,prt,selit age had produced illostrious
examples of the success of nations against armies,
it was scarcely to be expected that they shoold
escape in this: case. Whether the Neapolitans,
who imitated-the Spaniards in their Civil Institu-
tions, -w04.1d copy -their military example, it
was not for him: to determine—at }tether they
should_ take' to their fastnesses, which he believed
-was- their only chance against superior numbers
and superior discipline ; it did not.matter to hint
as regarded his preaentonotion. He had never
been a worshipper of fortune, nor a follower of
events ; he had, and always should be, engaged
in it struggle against tire undue exertions of
power which tended to destroy liberty.—
His opinion would not be altered, even should
the
,Austrian armie,a plant their standard on
the remotest confines of the Italian territories.
—His motion waa to obtain information on
the subject generally, in order
,to ascertain how
far Ministers
,were implicated, from their bay-
ing. been engaged hr the late _deliberations:Ls
His Majesty's Ministers had, as the House knew,
published /74,dispatch, occasioned by the circular
of the Allied Powers assembled at Troppau.
That circular would 'save him (Sir. J. Mackin-
tosh) a great deal of argument ; forahe princi-
ples of the ;conduct of these Powers towards
Naples' were so clearly and strongly explained,
that there could be ho doubt with respect
to, them. This Circular of the Allied Powers
stated very distinctly those principles, so
very characteristic of those self-elected Dic-
tators of Europe, upon which they intend to
act in their dealings with the mutineers of
Naples, who had not yet learnt to assent
to their dictation. This Maaifesto, got up at
Troppau, and betrayed by their Minister at
fiamburgh, exhibi..ed their principles, and she tv-
ed who were deemed their present subjects, arid
all those whom they looked forward to as their
future subjects in other kingdoms, as well as
their vassals, whether in the shape of Kings, Em-
perors, Landgraves, or those known by other
titles of Sovereignty. These Lords of the In-
man race, with Kings for their vassals, and sub-
jects for their slaves, in the grounds they put for-
ward for their conduct, urged clothing but this—
that might constitutes right: Force was the only
right they claimed to invade every nation in the
civilised world. We, however, contended. the
Honourable. and Learned faentleman, still claim
some right to be free—we who still meet in free
assembly and discussion, and are the words
King, Lords, and Commons, equally, together
with all other words which sound so harshly in
the ears of those Lords at Troppau, we owe this
at least to them, that they have not concealed the ,
principles which guided the first act of their power.
They have not disguised those shameless motives
which can only procure for them the execration
of mankind:L.-But non melts. hic sermo,—he would
appeal to the Noble Lord opposite, for a justifi-
cation of the. language he used. He had only, to
appeal to his Majesty's Ministers, who had just-
ly characterized the measures of the Royal Tri-
umvirate. They had shewn to this Country and
to Europe, in its true colours, the odious and
flagitious cotntuct of those three candidates for
the Dictatorship of Europe. He appealed to the
Circular of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Cas-
a
tlereaah). In ch3lng this he would not read it—
he would abridge it by all those formulae of
diplomacy which the Noble Lord would grant
him were more necessary to answer the pur-
poses of etiquette, than conducive to real busi-
ness. Stripping this dispatch then of this for-
multa, this was what it said to the Allied
Sore ve proposed to us for the con-
duct of. Etightedj principles which" are repug-
nant from the interests of mankind, subversive of
the-rights of man, and destructive of the ex-
istence of all free society ; -and which, if fully
acted upon, would render every man in Europe
the subject or the slave of a Royal Triumvirate."
ft was impossible for him to give any charge a
greater colouring of heinousness than was con-
veyed in that language. As to the Carbonari, it
.was impossible that airy thing could be said
against
;the Carbonari, more disgraceful than
what his Noble Lord had uttered a,sinst his-late
colleagues. The Jacobites of France might have
deserved every epithet that had ever been be-
stowed upon them, and he would ask the 'House
whether any thing that had ever heist) said of Na-
poleon, surpassed' what. was contained in this in-
dictment of the Noble ..Lord against his late col.
leagues at the congress of Vienna ? There was
however an occasional mysterious style of express-
sioiawhich perhaps. conyeyed something 'still more
severe than that Which he had aboyestated,lo those
who understood it. He would observe, for in-
stance, that the first charge was not• sufficiently
clears; such, at least,as he who had been accustom--
ed to criminal proceedings and legal iodicaments,
should wish to have seenmore explicitly cooveyed.

. .
Ai far •as he understoki it, howeVrr, it appeared
to be a chhrge against the Sovereigns of Russia,
Prutsia, acid Austria, of calling upon this Govern-
tnvat to adopt measures directly repugnant from
the fundaraental principles of the ConstitutiOn of
p this kingdom. Of this charge_: no explanation
had been liven. If he rightly inferred the mean-
ing of these articles of:impeoclkment, it was, tkat
these 'Sovereigns had proposed as a system of ()O-
rations jot thr§Lcountry -to .liticOme a party to;
that whiCh Would ple-dge The BritiSh Sovereign to
invite into this country, with or without the con-
sent of Parliament, foreign troops. This he was
to understand as the meaning of
.the Noble,
Lord's Circular. If he was wranz, the Noble
Lord would give - him some indication of
it before he proceeded. As the Noble Lord
abstained from giving him any sign or mark of
assent, or the contrary; he must argue as though
'he agreed to it. This, then, was the greatest
offence that could be committed, in Contraven-
.tion of that trivial instrument, the Bill of Rights,
which especially prohibited the introduction of
foreign troops, with Out the concurrence of Par-
liament. Ile called the particular attention of
the House to this part of the impeachment against
Prince Metternich and Prince Ilardenburg, so
ably conducted by the Noble Lord opposite.
. Prince Metternich, it vented, had proposed, as
a system of co-operation,. that the British Mo-
narch should invite into this country an army of
one hundred thousand 'Russians or Austrians,
with or with Out _the consent. of Parliament—that
there should be established, in order to render
the deliberations of that House more regular, a
host of Cossacks or Croats in Hyde-park or on
Blackheath. That was the crime which the
Noble Lord imputed to his Noble Colleagues.
lie should be ashamed of his countrymen if he
did not think that all parties felt their blood boil
with indignation at time thought of a Single foreign
bayonet being called in to settle their disputes::
I f there could be any doubt in their interpreting
Foreign Powers as to their theory, they had
pointed out to us what they thought would be
our fate, and in language not to be Misunderstood,
what part they would act towards us. 'From the
highest advocate of Divine right, to the wildest
visionary for popular Government in that house,
all must admit the truth of the Noble Lord's
Charges against his Noble Aliies, after these pro-
pheeies,as to the fate of England.. The most serious
part, however, on which that House required elu-
cidation 'Yet remained. Foreign Governments
told us.that they had no doubt we should assent to
' this'policy, which would render England the most
miserable Colony of the Despots of Europe !
This, then, after six years of peace, after repeat-
ed Congresses, was the abouchement des Rois—
the produce of universal
.charity ! We were told
that not only that it was expected .we should
assent to their detestable policy, but that the
King of this country would sanction, the land-
ing of one hundred thousand Cossacks, or Croats,
at Dover, without the. consent of his Parliament.
Ile had heard, that when Gentlemen: of a certain
description fell out, others of an opposite nature
benefitted by it.' In the -glorious history, of
Jonathan Wild, that hero was made to de-
plore.the fate of one of his ancestors in the time
of Ckrles the Second, who, as time hero stated
it, because he held out against the Government,
and was braver and bolder than any of the rest
of those who did the same, was barbarously con=
detuned to death, in cold blood, by twelve men
of the apposite faction.—(A laugh.)—=This feel-

ing seemed to have crept into the cabinets of the
Holy Alliance. The Noble Lord was charged
with having, either by his silence or his language,
contributed to the notion that he would fall in
with the barbarous politics of Prince Metternich,

Hardr'nberg, and others of the confederacy.—
So that he was charged up to the 19th of
January with having dissembled, with hav-
ing kept the rest of the band in igno-
rance, or rather with having made them be-
lieve they would admit a foreign army into
Middlesex, apd become a party to the enslavery of
Europe—(Cheers from the Opposition—returned
from the Treasury Benches.)—He was happy to
see the Noble Lord so much at ease; he had the
peculiarart of appearing unaffected when that was
going on which could not fail to affect him. But
that which was intended as an indication of an

unruffled mind, .often proceeded from a different
cause. The Noble Lord. perhaps, thought it. was
. his (Sir J. Mackintosh's) language, when it was
the language-of his own colleagues at Vienna. It
was they who charged, this conduct and this lan-
guage upon him. He could not, however, complain
either of Prince Metternich or Prince Hardenberg,
for asserting this of him. For here they bad the
Noble Lord latheiruts coyitentem rearm—they
had the culprit speaking elOqUently in :aggrava-
tion of punishment. They had heard the Noble
Lord himself state in that House all the henious-
ness of the charge brought by his illustrious Col-
leagues against him. They had the Noble Lord's.
own testimony to the truth of what he (Sir J.
Mackintosh) stated of the charge against the
Noble Lord, in the Noble Lord's own impeach-
ment against his Colleagues. He did not say that ,
these persons were justified in their charge; for
the Noble Lord denied the justice of it. 'nut
he asked him whethei- he did say it, or whether
he did not, whether there was not enough to jus-
tify inquiry. He could 'not escape the dilemma
either that the• Noble Lord and his Colleagues
had given rise to the, suspicion charged upon
them, or the Allies had uttered the foulest and
most unmerited calumnies. The Allies had stat-
ed that they expected -England would authorize
and sanction the course they were-about to pur-
sue. They thus left it to be implied that she
had given them reason to suppose her'authority
world support them in their present views. The
only way to -ascertain whether the English
vernment , had committed the greatest of all
crimes, or•whether the Allies 'had. sent forth the
greatest of all calumnies, was to grant the "Pa-
pers called forly the present motion. As Prince
Metternich and Count Hardenberg were absent,
it was bet just that he should suppose that which
they might,urge in defence of what they had ad-
vanced. The Allied Powers saw that the (1011n0
take■ by England towards Naples, in many in-
stances, was similar to their own ; they had a
gli t to suppose that her intentions were the

Szmo had refused to.rebeive the NI-1
nister sent frtim the new Government, Prince.
eimitelii ; he could wish to know what Austria
or Russia had done more. From this it was fair-
to suppose that England was willing to attack.
Naples, though from rtain considerationsi
which had been stated with mot humiliating
eloquence visewhere than he could use there,shir
tiis so reduced, by thegloriv irate conclt‘de4
advantageoe4lll,nceslinft4e, that-she dared
not' commit hersechoNi course that might bring;
tr‘r, to the brink of war. Sin. had manifested
a hostile disposition, but her conduct .was that 04
an encinv •

Hog to -,rvooto,

, but yet n'r•4id to strike."

We were not prepared to give thatvulgar assist-
ance which . friendly nations required from each
other to assist them in their wars ; but we. proved
ourselves ready to give what was delicately
called of late years moral aid or suaconr, bat
which he would take the liberty to call immoral
aid or succour. He-contended, from the course'
pursued towards France after Louis the Sixteenth. -
had been brought back as a prisoner to his capi-
tal,
when this country received M. Chauvelin as
the Minister of France, that they were not
bound to decline. receiving Prince Cimitelli.—
The conduct of the Allies, however abominable
their principle, was consistent, but the conduct
.of this country, which still claimed credit for at-
tachment to the principles of libertv, was most • '
inconsistent with such pretensions,
Gustavo-, altered the Constitution of 'Sweden in
1772, and made himself an A bsolate Monarch,
his Minister was received. 'Flu same' thing wa.ao-
done' when the. Constitution of Detw!ark tt
changed ; and this was the way Ore impartiality'
of England was shown, by fe.vouring all loyal,
-and by diocountenancing all Popular Revolutions.
His Illustrious Clients, Prince.Matteroich end
Count Hardenburg,.had some right to call this •
Government to an account for the -uanecessary
disapprobation they liad expaeSSed. What was
singular in this business was, that that disappra-
bation was expressed not to the. Government of
Naples, but to the Powers opposed to Naples.
lle remembered many years agohearing a debat:
in that House on some- of the events connected
with the French Revolution, in the course of
which a' celebrated speech by Dr. Johnsen
against war was quoted. On that occasion Mr.
Barke remarked " that the homily-was Amic-
able, and the invective against, war excellent, r
was the speech altogether ; .buthe added, it wes
useless to addreSsahe homily to thellause—it S
not they who were disposed to be quarrelsome,.
and instead Of. being read to them, the homily
should rather have been read to the National
Assembly and Jacobin. Club." Now what he woutd.
safwas, that the English disapprobation of• the
Neapolitan RevOlutiOn should rather have been.
expressed to the Government of Naples, than to
the Allies, or to the world at large., lie would.
not defend the conduct which had' been purstled.
by Naples towards Sicily, but this, though it
might affix a stain to the character of the former
nation, which no time could efface, had nothing
to do with the question as to the independenci: •
of Naples. The Spanish Constitution, which
had been- athipted by Naples, he-did not proles; .
to admire as the ITlO3t perfect form of Govern-
ment that could be imagined ; but, it might be
asked,. whose fault was it that the Spanish Con-
stitution had been adopted ? Sicily had claimed
an English Constitution in 1811, and to this they
adhered till the conduct of the English Ministry"
with reTcat to the,small Republics of Genoa, of
Lucca, and Ragusa, had brought it into discre-
dit. It was not till the independence of 0101!
States was annihilated by the smile treaty whic3 -
surrendered Parga to a Barbarian, that the
Ita-
lians were alienated from England and its Con-
stitution. He then charged Ministers withl ring'
ing into general discredit abroad this country,
long the guardrail, the school, and the Inodel Ot
liberty to all mankind. They had stripped Frig'
land of that which gave her a -nobler distinctliiil
than all the glory of victory, or the strength 4!
arms could bestow. They had stripped 14.7- of
this to gain the approbation of the. ;1-.spots oe
the Continent, by whom, ;al.'"ar all, they were
now arraigned and coi:lcted in the face 'of the
World. The Noble Lerd. complained of the
-proceedings of the Carbonari. . In this he re'
sembkd Murat, who had been willing to allow
them to Meet, provided they did so openly,
.and
let him know the precise time at. which Owl
meant to march against his capital :and overthrow
his power. -.For this he took credit to himself
for being a most liberal Prince. Men of letters
had objeeted, to the dramatic unity of the.
French stage, which al:ow:ng- of no change ("''
scene, made it necessary for conspirators to' meet
and form their plans in the open market place'
whero.their motions might be observed by ever!'
one. The Noble Lord and Murat .wished t°
introduce this absurdity which critics had co'''.
deraned on the stage, and were inclined to al-
low the Carbonari to plot in public.' It had heel:
objected to the Revaiution that it .was beotte
about by the military. In case et Revolution
the military must of necessity side with one party-
Was-it then to he laid down as an universal
eiple -that -every revolution which -the milltai'Y
favoured was unjustly effected ? That would he,
most unreasonable and impolitic. He condernnea
the interference of an army with the affairs of
free State. He abhorred the army that crossed
the Rubicon with Ccesatato attack the Republic,
and approving of the coademnation bestowed by
a writer of antiquity on those who acted such ail
part, was anxious to do all in his power to guru',"
against that maionon omnium extremom•
traced the history of the Carbonari, and shewea
them to have -been excited by England, in the
juA exercise of her belligerent rights, during the
late war, to throw off the Yoke of France.--
How must the numbers of -the Carbonati have
been increased-by the conduct of England towards
.Gelloll, Lucca; Ragusa,. and Parga. it had been
said by'a Much lamented friend of, his in 1815,
(Mr. Horner) " that Ital,v to her last- hour:
was bound to deplore the perfidy of England.'
This prediction was now_ proved. in. consequence
of the' perfid v of- England, she had betaken her-
self to " broken cisterns, which y'otild hold it)
water." d
Itl
is'ohaeisii.:,:e..ccioaantstrniteiletti,h;iga•adhoald,teb_e,e he
ad
ld•
4