The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-29 00:00:00

thought that must not be the limit.—(Hear.) For there
was so great a desire to educate the working classes. that
he did not think, if an application were made for a larger
grant next year, it would meet with great opposition
He was quite willing to take such a test if he thought it
would be at all useful, but he had very great doubts cf
any such test being at all a worthy criterion of capability.
But a further consideration was involved. Was mere
scholastic attainment anything like a proof of capacity
for public office? Ile did not mean intellectual capability,
but that power to fulfil the practical duties of life,
together with that degree of attainment which would
ensure an appointment advantageous to the public. The
Noble Lord last session had proposed that a portion of
the public funds should be appropriated to granting
prizes to the youths educated in these public schools
after their attainments had been ascertained by public
examination. Now if he were perfectly convinced of the
truth of the decisions come to after these public exami-
nations, he should certainly have no objection, but he
had yet much to learn respecting the principle here
involved before he acceded to its truth, and till he wt.s
he felt it a matter of duty to withhold the grant. It was
solely from an unwillingness to induce the schoolmasters
to seek for public employment that led him to abstain
from all interference. There was great danger in
ointring them such rewards. He hoped, under these
circumstances, that the Hon. Gentleman would perceive
that he had dealt with these propositions in a manner
in which they ought to be dealt with.
Mr. WYSE seconded the resolution of his Ho-
nourable Friend. He said that education had now
assumed such a position as to justify any consump-
tion of time and labour in introducing the subject in
an enlarged state under the consideration of the House.
He hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would take an
enlarged view of all literary institutions and suppert
them by grants from this House in whatever part of the
United Kingdom they might be placed.
Sir R. PEEL said that it was the intention of the Go-
vernment to collect the information which might lead to
such institutions.
Mr. NYSE was very glad to hear such a statement,
as it was of inestimable value. It would turn the public
mind to a due consideration of the subject. Ile
did not think that the Right Honourable Baronet
made any observations with respect to that part
of the resolutions which referred to the institu-
tion of public libraries. He (Mr. Wyse) thought town
councils ought to get the power of levying taxes f. r the
institution of public libraries under the sanction and
authority of Government. It would greatly encourage
the diffusion of knowledge, and go far in the correction
of morals in the growing generation. Ile hoped his
Hon. Friend would be satisfied with the explanation
and recommendation of the Right Hon. Baronet oppo-
site and not think it necessary to put his resolutions to
a division.
Mr. HUME said he felt perfectly satisfied both with
the answer the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the
Government had given, and the able speech of his Hon.
Friend near him (Mr. Ewart.) The present administra-
tion had shown itself peculiarly inclined to extend the
opportunities of education both by the liberal grant re-
comenended for such purposes in this country as well as
Ireland. At the same time, though much had been
done, a very wide field was open for carrying out the
laudable work still more efficiently. In Russia every
class of the community were given the means of ready
and early instruction ; maps were exhibited in every
school in that kingdom, and over each city and town de-
picted on them were place d a statistical account of the
population, revenue, and peculiar features of each, whe-
ther the districts were manufacturing or agricultural,
and all such invaluable particulars. As to the second
resolution, he concurred in every word which his Hon.
Frieud bad said in reference to local libraries ; the im-
portance of such establishments could not be overrated,
and though it would be a very great acquisition to this
country if the same system as was at present pursued in
the Unitedi States could be introduced here, neverthe-
less, although he concurred so fully in the remarks of his
Hon. Friend who had brought forward the present dis-
cussion, he trusted the resolutions would not be pressed
to a division, as, what was far better than that, a useful
and satisfactory consideration had been given the question.
Mr. HAWES recommended that the same collegiate
system lately introduced for Ireland should be intro-
duced int ) this country, but, in the want of such a satis-
factory course, he could only tender the resolutions of
his Hon. Friend his warmest support.
The motion was negatived without a division.
SCHOOL OF DESIGN.
On the question being put that the Speaker leave the
chair,
Mr. W. WILLIAMS rose to move according to
notice--For a Select Committee to inquire into the alle-
gations contained in the petition of the senior students of
the School of Design in Somerset-house, and into the
general management and present state of that School—
but stated his willingness to withdraw his motion in case
the Government would accede to its requirements.
Sir R. PEEL made a few remarks across the table,
not one word of which reached the gallery, but it is to
be concluded that he refused to concur in the proposi-
tion, as
Mr. WILLIAMS immediately proceeded, and attri-
buted the ill-success which had attended the Institution,
ever since its fist formation, to the bad government
under which it had systematically laboured. Twenty-
four gentlemen had been appointed to conduct the
entire management of the establish= nt, and like
every other department entrusted to the charge
of such a limited council, it had been neg-
lected. Every thing lie affirmed, he was prepared to
prove before a Committee of the House. He challenged
inquiry, as he wanted to know whether the statements
that had been made to him were true or not. The
successor of the previous Master, Mr. Dyce, was Mr.
Wilson, who was neither a workman nor a scholar, and
the latter had under him a Mr. Herbert, a very skil-
ful person, and a royal academician, yet Mr. Herbert,
so eminently qualified for the situation ho held,
was removed by a meeting of the council, at
which there were only four present— (Hear)—
while the other was retained. In consequence of this
state of things, the arrangements were such as to afford
no efficient means of instruction. Thirty-seven of the
students addressed the council on the subject, setting
forth the incapacity of the master of their class, and the
director, to fill the situations which they held, to which
an answer was returned as offensive as it could be well
expressed, ordering their expulsion. The Hon. Member
here said, the order of the council for the expulsion of
the scholars, and deciding that they should not be re-
admitted unless through the director, respecting whose
incapacity they had addressed the council, he
looked upon as a highly arbitrary proceeding, as the
remonstrants were not boys, but many of them young
men who had given evidence of considerable ability, anal
who had shown no refractory spirit, but merely a lauda-
ble desire of being properly instructed. He was told
that many of the complaining parties were
miserably deficient of talent. His answer to
this was, that many of them had competed
for prizes, and had been successful. 0112, a native of
Scotland, after being a few months there, obtained two
prizes, and another had gained three prizes, in competi-
tions. These were facts which, with many others, he
could prove in committee, were it granted. Under such
a management, what was the result ? In April, 1844,
there were 196 scholars ; in July, the same year, 189 ;
being a falling off of 7. In April, this year, there were
186 ; in July, 11 1 ; shelving a falling off of 75. What
was the occasion of this ? The dismissal of 37 of their
best scholars, and such a circumstance deterring others
from attending at this s minary. The testimony of Mr.
Pugin, whose fame was European, bore evidence to the
poverty of our talent in the decorative arts. That gen-
tleman stated that he had only three persons in his em-
ployment who were Englishmen; and out of those three,
there were two who had been dismissed from the School
of Design. Surely these circumstances called aloud for
inquiry. If his motion was not granted, great dissatisfac-
tion would be the result. Owing himself much to manufac-
tures, he was anxious that proper instruction should be
afforded to those who had to obtain their livelihood
through their means, and ho should therefore use every
exertion in his power to promote their efficiency. The
Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving that an inquiry
be instituted into the School of Design.
Sir GEORGE CLERK opposed the motion, and
held that the House wenld compromise its dignity if
they acceded to it, when it was well known that it
emanated from a number of students who had been
suspended from the School of Design, on account of
gross insubordination. With respect to Mr. Tyas, it
could not have been expected that an artist of con-
siderable eminence could have given up all his time to
the institution, even when his salary was increased
from 400/. to 500/. a year. Mr. Wilson was also
an artist of great eminence, and certainly a
person more qualified could not have been
selected to fill the office to which he was appointed.
Mr. Herbert was also well qualified to instruct those in
his department—the drawing of the human figure.
Those under his tuition were under 20 years of age,
there being some as young al fourteen. Certainly Mr.
Herbert was to blame for the disparaging way in which
he spoke of Mr. Wilson in the hearing of his pupils.
Now he would ask the House whether these gentlemen—
mere lads—were competent to judge of the character of
their tutors. It was true that there was one 22 years
of age. Mr. Wilson took this young man into his pri-
vate room, and showed him some drawings, some of
which he lent him to copy. He found the name of an
Italian written in the corner, and thus he brought the
charge against Mr. Wilson of foisting off other persons
designs as his own. Now, it appeared that the name in
the corner of the drawing was that of a town—Onego—
which the drawing represented ! The shawl-worksr
mentioned by Mr. Nugent had take* lessons, and left
the school ; but after some time he returned,
and took lessons under Mr. Wilson. He designed some
beautiful patterns, which were eagerly purchased by
some of the largest manufacturers in that town. Many
of those who were in the habit of receiving patterns
from France now obtained them from those who had
been educated at the School of Design. This showed
that
i io.t be
Memberschool
aiwaadso not in
out—considering the inefficient
thestaa hmethiet
state which
tih
had been established, it had made wonderful progress.
Looking at the satisfactory state of the exhibition last
year he did not think that the School
d e soefrliteesdi g
by
ni
the o
patronisedn.
by Government was in the state
Member, and lasing,
facts
,
asheotfht°huagthHr' answered all the
Hon. Member, there
arguments and all
seemed no necessity for the Committee. He should oppose
his motion.
Mr. EWART said that, without taking up the time
of the House, it was clear enough that the school in
Somerset House was in a state of disorganisation. Mr.
Pugin had stated that he was unable to find there ar-
tists to supply designs for the new Houses of Parliament,
and he was therefore obliged to search over the Conti-
nent for them. Their manufactures were also behind
those of France, because pattern designing was not suffi-
ciently encouraged ; and therefore, under these circum-
stances, he should support the motion of his Hon. Friend
the Member for Coventry.
Mr. WAKLEY said that, finding the Hon. Member