The Sun.
London, England, 1828-04-22 00:00:00

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themselves Christiaus. and yet dis'uelicvc in the divinity or
Christ. It is for that express impose that I would alter
the declaration into the form which I have proposed,—" I
declne in the presence of God, and in the name of his Son
our Saviour ;Jesus Christ." These words can give no of-
fence to any person who believes in the fundamental doc-
trines of the Christian faith.
The Earl of CARNARVON—If your Lordships in
as evil hour shall think lit to accede to the amendment
just proposed by the Noble Duke, I shall feel it my duty
°Prease this Bill in every future stage of it. Instead of
limiting yourselves to imposing upon all aspirants fee
"tlice a declaration that they will not, by any power en-
trusted
to them by virtue of their office, injure the rights
and privileges of the Church, you are now calling upon
therm to make a declaration of their creed. You are en-
tering into details of faith, when you call upon them to
declare what part of the Scriptures of the Old and New
.ICeitainent they believe in. Now, can you say that there
are
, no coetroverted books, no apocryphal writings, on
wnich different sects do not entertain different opinions ?
Whilst you express your desire to throw open the doors of
°true to all classes of Dissenters, why do you close them
belief
telling upon them to make a declaration of their
"eliel in all parts of the Old and New Testament, which
you have made canonical by authority ? By such declare-
i°ll we plunge at once into an endless labyrinth, and we
mastitute for an antique law, which scarcely embarrasses
"Y onee a new clause, of which no one can define the
If the proposed words should be inserted in
Cie original declaration, I shall feel myself under the
necessity of opposing the Bill.
.Lord CALTHORPE had the most sincere desire to up-
hold religion in the deepest reverence ; but it appeared to
bins that every step made to add to the religious privileges
qf the Church, any thing in the shape of a religious test
beyond that security which she had already in public esti -
Metion, had a direct tendency to depreciate the value of
.that' hunk and of those scriptures en which it was her
highest boast to found her doctrines. For these re asons he
'confessed that he for one should have been better pleased if
the Bill -which came from the House of Commons had
Partaken of a civil test more simply than be feared that it
ban' would partake, from the changes which the declara-
tion. had. 'already undergone, and from those with which it
Ras -menaced. It indicated a consciousness of weakness,
t 0 impose 'on others a test from which their con-
"c'enee shrank; and such a course, so far tiom
illPholding the dignity of the Church of England,
ad a 'tendency to weaken and impair it. He
cnld have wished that the Bill before their Lord-
Ps had continued to maintain its original character,
”._° 'had preserved distinct the religious and civil
h t,'racter of the privileges of the Church. He believed
"at the Church of England was rising higher and higher
every day in public regard, and he therefore could not ac-
beta
ce in those apprehensions which led the Noble Earl
t„ ~y him to move the amendment to the declaration
Was then before the House. If there were any se-
de tits, it should be a civil security. It would be extremely
treble to put an end to the Test and Corporation Acts,
•Lt only if they considered themselves bound to rescue the
M
.(;;;erit from degradation, to rescue their fellow-subjects,
q`
rescue—which, in his, opinion, was the most aggra-
."ed case--the Church ; but if they were also to consider
a learning to future legislators not to legislate in the
'fie spirit in which these Acts had been passed. If they
were dictated by a sincere and honest desist: to uphold the
Etnity and security of the Church, they must not perpe-
ate the same error which had marked the conduct of those
4 first proposed the Test and Corporation Acts—that spe-
,., of error which had depraved the holy sacrament itself,—
itwas true, with a wish to do so, but which, never-
tl+lsa'a in the desire of upholding the interests of the church
3"q overlooked the upholding of the sanctity of the sacra-
-424. Though certainly he, for one, was ready to do
~np le justice to'the feelings and the motives of those who
1.7.? made this change in the declaration, yet he could not
1,71 P feeling that if they went on thus changing the decla-
tv—ti°o, step by step, it would be the same as though they
aere to undo with one hand what they were doing with
other. He wished the Noble Duke at the head of the
Pniv
fo ernent had taken an opportunity of explaining what
, rn
I:%freaa him the other night, respecting the reasons which
,41 induced his Majesty's Government to take this step, 1—
t Meant what the Noble Duke had said respecting it being
'air alteration, that was supported by a considerable ma-
J°titl of the House of Commons,—because it seemed
~,,
him, that one the most memorable circumstances
cattending this Bill was, that in the other House, where„
'rotri its very constitution, the Dissenters might be sup-
Posed to have some influence, the Bill was not at first re-
eeiVed with such unanimity as it was received in this,
Zsti'lleh contained so many of the constituted heads of the
Utehs'and in which the church would receive peculiar
"itection and support. He therefore considered the Bill,
ta:Ott.„.inuch due measure of relief to the Dissenters, but
PrZfonsidered it in its more important character of a
chti 'proof anxiety on the part of that House to rescue the
itibore° fora hose reproaches under which it had so long
_ured _
by the continuance of these Acts. He hoped the
declaration and every part of the Bill would be so rnodi-
• a 3 to give relief to the Dissenters, and confer benefit
• ti,thecharels.
• Lon] REDESDALE would ask their Lordships, what
ita3the simple law on this subject as it now stood? For
O*as: very simple, though it might be objectionable: Vbv,it merely supposed that those persons who took
5h,...-elj were members of the Established Church; and,
ir°re, instead of interrogating them individually—
sete Yua a member of the Church of England it said,
You conform to the ceremonies of that Church? bee
if yon'Aer, will not inquire more particularly."
ti was' the simple law as it now stood, and the dechua-
°° Would "fisted oil introduce doubt and difficulty where none
now. If they would by an Act simply repeal the
littflent law, then matters would stand precisely as they did
et2e the passing of the law. The Church of England
4.hefeire the passing of the Test and Corporation Acts,
ti;aa• it stood now. To introduce a clause like this, however,
*Ohl lea.d to endless disputes. Many men would declare
1,14 they would not swear to, and some men did not think
1
11113ath binding if it were not proposed in their own way.
AY could never see an end of the difficulties to which
loe IlLttee would lead. If they would say that it was no
th,t'e necessary that persons taking offices should show that
tel Were members of the Established Church by adhering
not eerernoniee, let them repeal the law altogether, and
alit
▪ complicated difficulties by such an alteraticn as that
alit Proposed. But, after all, what did it do? Why it
ese,.*,ed a man to exercise every other influence in the
..qo but that which he derived from his office. It ad-
Trub•m'etlL to office any person, whatever his religious opinions
lleah4"t hs, if he would promise not to make his office the
IthC3 of subverting the Church. The first Church in
thebeountry was the Church of Rome ; but at one time
Lolfaharl a king upon the throne who had the House of
kid "3 quite at his command. He was a sort of absolute
thet' and by the influence of his political power threw off
(.I,B4Preinacy of the Pope, and so they went on until the
tape oh of England was established. Political influence,
eal,ef°re, their Lordships, would see, created what was
rd the Established Church.
he e Duke of WELLINGTON (as we understood) said,
sslaal3 not aware when' he proposed an addition to the de-
it inn, which he thought would evince unanimity,- that
lisittnlld be objectionable to officers in the army and navy.
thar,und by reference to the Act of the 3d of Geo. 111.
910,.;rt Would effect the exclusion of Catholics ; and he
re 4, :therefore propose a clause to the same effect, but in
tOniprehellilVC terms.
siaZord.HOLLAND observed, that there was now a dis-
• • krttlestion before the Committee.
,ah. 41, Contersation between Lords TE NTERDEN, ELDO2i,
APTESBUZY,
4116 GREY said the amendment before the House
'lllll4tia put, and any other amendment proposed at a
atie,-!nt period. As to the words which it was the in-
°f the Noble Duke to insert, he must say that he
pote.ot.
Wish them to form a part of the Bill. For his own
!hula! el4deed, he should have been more content with a
t_,4Peal of the existing laws, without any declare-
-4%4'1. He should prefer that the Church of England
i'llea,stanri, as assuredly it would stand, upon that rock
'Wpm 'CI, formed by the purity of its doctrines and the
ktati.iLae character: of its professors. These would form
/tete 7 enou h , without the aid of Test and Corporation
g
witlsotn these the Church of Ireland had rested in safety,
afford, rany flitch assistance as these Acts were supposed to
aasingit_and-if it were exposed- to any danger at all, it was
• Inajoit". those severe, and intolerant laws which made the
,estahliell Of the people of Ireland the enemies' of the Church
Ple re,nient. If; then, he should have preferred the sim-
tirretral of the existing laws, so also be should have pre-
the •
• airleetkl. .'simple declaration as it originally stood, to the
~eotdeta Which had been proposed in it. To the first
tin•
ny thWientitteed by the Noble Duke be had no objec-
was - afraid that by their endeavours to con-
bhich th!Y...frequently got into difficulties. The ground
tev i•Nohle Duke had taken on this question entitled
deaet;xrit thanks of the country, and increased the confi-
't were ,iseh he (Earl Grey) had in the Noble Duke. If
for Ought that some further proof of the candidate
bettee, Lll.:eng a Christian were necessary, it would be
Posed, IV_ alna to add, as a Reverend Prelate had pro-
Wards -to words "on the true faith of a Christian," or
coneer,t2nat effect. As far, however, as unanimity was
better as he thought the declaration would have been
ese .s stood.
1"711 mereHis object, however, in rising, had
7 to Point out the course by which their I,9rd-
.

ships might proceed in a more simple way. Let the
amendment now before the House be first proposed, anti
when that was disposed of, the Noble Earl might propose
the insertion of the words respecting our Saviour—worth,
however, he must be allowed to say,- that he should cer-
tainly oppose the introduction of, because he was con-
vinced that they'would destroy the measure—and if they
were inserted, he, for one, should vote against the Bill.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY then put the question
that,. after the word " declare,". the words "on the true
faith of a Christian" should be inserted.

Tie Amendment was agreed to.
Lord HOLLAND perfectly concurred with those Noble
Lords who had said that they should have preferred the
simple repeal of those Acts to any other measure, but find-
ing that the object of the Noble Duke was to procure una-
nimity, he should not offer any objection to the Noble
Duke's proposition. His object was this—that the same
words occurred in onother oath taken by the same set of
persor, and though he should not press this objection, yet
he could not have the pleasure of saying " content" with
the great majority of their Lordships.
The Earl of ELDON had some other words to propose,
which be should abstain from pressing on the attention
of their Lordships then. He should, however, propose
them on the report, when he should again make the mo-
tions which their Lordships had negatived. He should
do this, not for the purpose of raising any discussion upon
them, but that he might record, on the journals of their
Lordships, that he had made them.
The question tvas then put and carried in the affirma-
tive, without a division.

The Earl of WINCHELSEA then proposed the intro-
duction of the words, "and our Lord and Saviour Jesus
Christ."

After a remark from the Bishop of LLANDAFF, the
House divided upon it—

Contents
Non-contents
Majority 9S
The Amendment was therefore lost.

On our re-admission, we found
Lord TENTERDEN suggesting an Amendment, for
the purpose of securing that the governing Members of
Corporations should be Members of the Churehof Eng-
land : it was in the form of an addition to the declaration
in the subsequent terms—" I entertain no opinion on the
subject of religion, that can or may prevent my attending
the morning and evening service of the Church of Eng-
land, as set forth in the Book of Common Prayer." His
Lordship made a few remarks upon the propriety of hold-
ing out inducements to Members of Corporations to belong
to the Establishment, in order that they might reach the
higher offices.
The Bishop of CHESTER asked, whether it was not
at the present moment the law, that no Chief-Magistrate
of a Corporation could attend a conventicle, with the in-
signia of his office?
Lord TENTERDEN replied, that such might be the
law ; but if it were, it did not go half the length of his
Amendment.

The Bishop of CHESTER begged to remind the Noble
and Learned Lord, that when the Bill against occasional
conformity was passed, in order to quiet the apprehensions
of those who thought it would take Magistrates from the
Church and carry them to conventicles, it was enacted
that nd Magistrate should attend, with the insignia of his
office, any place of worship but the Established Church.—
He believed that that law was not only at present in force,
but that it was well known to the Members of all the Cor-
porations.
_ _

Lord DONOUGHMORE asked (we believe) whether
the Amendment was intended to apply both to England and
Ireland ?

Lord TENTERDEN answered, that the Act of Charles
11. only applied to England.
Lord HOLLAND remarked, that the Test Act was not
in force in Ireland, and Dissenters were there Members of
Corporation..
Lord ELDON agreed, that• the existing law was what
had been stated by the Bishop of Chester. -
After a few words from the Bishopof GLOUCESTER
a division took place. The numbers were—

Contents 22
Not Contents lll
Majority against the Amendment---89

The Earl of LAUDERDALE moved that the words
" within this 'realm" should be omitted, and " England
and Wales" substituted instead of them. There was no
necessity to include Scotland, where the people had confi-
dence enough in the purity of their Clergy and in the
soundness of their doctrines to maintain their Church
without any tests or declarations.
The Amendment was agreed to.
The Bishop of CHESTER gave notipe that he intended
to move the insertion of the epithet " Episcopal" in the
terms of the Declaration, so as to style the Established
Church the Protestant Episcopal Church.
Lord HOLLAND remarked, that the Declaration re-
ferred to the Protestant Church 'as by law established,
which could mean only that to which the Right Rev. Pre-
late belonged.

The Bishop of CHESTER said, he would state can•
didly at once what his reasons were. He understood that
some of the Dissenters considered themselves, to a certain
sense, established by law in this country. To prevent any
equivocation, which, however, was an intention he was
far from imputing to the framers of this sill, he intended
to propose this Amendment ; where even possible error
could be avoided by the insertion of a single word, he
thought there could be no objection.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE observed, there could
he no objection to the Amendment, and suggested, that the
most convenient time fur it, now as the clause had passed,
would be on the consideration of the Report.
. _

Some verbal Amendments, at the instance of the Earl of
ELDON, were agreed to in the next claube.

The Earl of ELDON called the attention of their Lord-
ships to the following clause, relative to the offices, by the
holders of which the Declaration was to be made. This
was a very important clause. As it was not intended to
apply the Declaration to all offices of trust, he would pre-
fer that a schedule of those to which it was to be applied
should be made out and appended to the Bill.
The consideration of this clause and another, therefore,
it was agreed, should be postponed till Thursday, when the
Report will be further considered.
The House resumed, and the Report was brought up.
The Bill was ordered to be printed with the Amendments.
The House then Adjourned at a Quarter past Twelve.