The Sun.
London, England, 1810-04-14 00:00:00

IRISH TITHES;

Mr. PARNELL said, that in rising to submit to the
House a mode by which the present .Colledion.of,
Tithes in Ireland_would be improved, he had strong
claims on its attention. These claims would un-
doubtedly become stronger, .i.viten the Honse would
idled on that subject so dear to` the people- of Ire

land, Emancipation. It- had unfortutiately haPririm
ed that the refusal of adopting this Mei:fibre had
created in that country such a disappointment,-that
it was necessary the House should fix on some plan
of attaching its feelings' to them.: Since Emancipa-
tioit had failed, an improventent in the levying of-
Tithes would be some Compensation, and woUld
afford some relief to the grievances the,y complained
of. He begged leave to call the. recolleetionof the
House to the proceedings .which had taken place on
,this subjea.- He had presented .a Petition the-Ses-
sion before last from the County he had the honour
to represent;' it vvas then in the'contemplation of a
Right Hoo. Gentleman to propo;e some measure
for the relief,of the various complaints; unfortu-
nately, on investigation, he foundit impossible to
carry it into effect. He was abeutto 'propose one
which he hoped the House would receive. As to
the necessity of relief,. it already was evident, from
the intention' he had just adverted.to. He would.
not enter at large into the 'nature of. tithes ; he was.
anxious, however, •to point out to the •House the
state of thorn in Ireland:* He would, in .the first
place, call its attention to the religion of the ceun-
try ; the far greater part of. the inhabitants did not
belong to' the Prinestant peratiasion ; notwith-
standing, they were
.cdled in to pay a very.
heavy tax to the Protestant Clergymen ; arid
likewise to their own cleiglmen for the dis
charge. of their funhions. If it is allowed
that the population of Ireland amounts to five
millions; of that 'writher four millions are Catho-
lics ; and the half. ;4,1 the remainder is composed of
ProteStaat Dissenters, and Quakers ; in -a word, if.
the whole was divided into ten parts one out of

,
that ten would not belong to tnose whom the rest i.
were oblige tto maintain ; such a statement. lie 'be-
lieved to be dpositiv.e tact. In Mr.. Newenharn's
4 ork on. the paolatiOn,of Ireland, he states that in .
Ulster the prop°, von Catholics to Protestants- is
as 2to 1 ; Alunstei as 15 to I; in Leinster as-5
to 2 ; in the (hoc, se of 'foam, as sixty to one ; in
the parish .4 T he considers contains
the greatest number ut Protest,mts for its extent, the
pi (Toll Wo is as sx to one in Le county (;f Clate
15 to L. 7l'ating the prop(); Lion .on the whole
sio ply as nine to one, it must appear impossible to
make an adequate' remedy. 'ln bringing forward
these tads, be. was perfealy aware that the relief
could: n..t to e..tire. The nature:: of the ael of. Uni,Ji
was such he was sure a perfect remedy could not
possibly 'take place. When the Petition.lay before
the House on .the subject of , Tidies,. he was. con-
vinced that not only the. Catholics but the Protes-
taut s-Avere in a great-treasure anxious for relief;- the
ProteStatit Clergy themselves were friendly to
.Anoih'er peculiar grievance arosefrom the rniseries,.!
of the poor; in Ireland there existed such a compe4
titiop for employment, that wages for labour was -
very low ;- the extent pf the metropolis, and the
want of capital, principally occasioned this; and the
consequence Was,. that the poOr Were ohliged to de.
pend Solely. for subsistence on their little tenements
of land ; the poorest labourers-were subje& tolithegl.
and many who, were exempted` front paying taxes to,
the King, were liable Ito this. Tit'us the Protestant
Clergy being' supported by persons so poor, gave
rise to every species of misery. All this wasinCreased .
by consigning the colleilion of their own dues-to,
othersi being prevented_ from doing so..thernSelves_
through a fear of resistance, they found it necessary
to employ such ~persons, who; from their
and tyranny, were aaapteu tor such business. Of
such measures mobs,anst insurreetions were the con-
sequence. To.obviate this laws on laws were passed,
till in tact a. new code. was established. The. usual
mode for redress,
.the application for drawing Atm
tithes, was abolished by the method of calling every
such, application a conspiracy ;-and- through a dread of •
this, they were deterred from having recourse to. it.
"I'lle.diflittenee between this. law. and-the- law of -
England is great; if it was nothing but to assi=
milate these laWs, he hoped his
.plan would receive -
the sanction of the House. Another- distinction
was with respect to flax ; here it is
,charged 5% an
acre, there front six to, eigtit shillings; if a bruit was
put to this tithe, the cullivation of this important
article in Ireland would be greaCy assisted, chiefly .!
as the soil in the North was so well adapted tor it..
This mode of collecting tithes, he asserted to he:alto- •
gether injurious, to agriculture, and for.this he had
the authority of Doctor Paley. He desired the
House would call to its recollection the year I 808,
when the Baltic was shut up, and this country 'so

dreadtoily Situated in respect of corn ; it was through
the means of Ireland it was supplied and he like-
wise 'wished the Hoase to observe, the hist year no

less titan 800,000.quartars had been imported. In
the last Session when
,he madethis proposition tathe
House, it was objected..to, because. he could produce
no settled Plan ; he then thought it was ,better to
I introduce it generally, that time might be given to
contader the most advantageous mode; -if the House
was now but to pledge itself that it
,would intitutean
•
r inquiry, and then adopt a plan, he was confident its
completion, would be most practicable. His chief on-
jcts in this .mode. were to exonerate the poor ;
to take • away the obligation of Catholics pay-
ing Protestant Clergymen," and to give them a re 7
'compence. The remedies of corn tithes and leas-'
mg tithe's as were ptoprosed some time ago, were, in
the Opinion.ot .Pitt;_totatly incompatible with
the wealth and fesources. of the country. His plan
was simple ; the first ,step would 'be to ascertain
the value of the Clergymen's benefices, and the
, next to pay them the net. amount of their income ;
by,the,means of -a tax whiCh would not be under-
stood as a tithe. In the_years 1786 and 1757; se-
veral Clergymen had lost considerably by the White
Boys ; the Acts which were then . passed for -their
,compensation would now very much assist the ob-
taining the knowledge of their incomes, and., the
exact value could .be acquired fibril -.the Board of
First Fruits. The number of Protestant Clergymen
in Ireland, he believed, now amountedlo.i 300 ; if
the whole revenue was divided, each would have an-
! nuallylsol. in all 195;0001.-which, together with.
20,000 acres of glebe land„, would amply compen-
sate them; by the preSent mode the. whole-,of the,
Tithes AtUOUnt to 500,0001. a year. Another objea
could be obtained which would secure the Clergy
from the depredation of money; •by taking the ave-
.

rage price of wheat at diffilrent periods. By pur-
suing these measures,, the atiettions of the country
would be conciliated. The Clergymen themselves

are in a [nail ner degraded by beiniobligee lb depend

for their subsistenci.; on tfie pocTesi. t7reatures, and
subjected to the impoiitions of the Tithe-farmer. and

Proctor. This case was siitrnltted some years ago
by the Hon. Member for Dublin, he therefore conhi

not be blamed for bringing lorward an entire new
proje&; it was then proposed that the country
should be rated; he wished toy recommend a get:.l;:hl

taxation, There had been •cotistant
-against the tithes, one 'lasted- thirty years—it bad
_ .

jiver) rise. to the United- Irishmen and- to ite

'Thrashers. He did not knoW if tlicrei.asany
ter alteration in the e: onteniplatiob of the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite ; it was, hOurever, neccss,,ry to
adopt some useful measure. . The popple. Of L,elatnd.
al w'a-vs believed that one of the objects of he -11.,i011
would bean alteration in the.Colia,uon of tithes, The
speech of au illustrious States man (Mr. Pitt) O 1
this subjea was printed, and sent ro all -parts
that country; in this. he. strongly condeinned 1.1:e
exist in system of tithes. Ha was:sorry; to say Ili°.
chief benefit the Union had.promisede :was nweY
afforded. He therefore moved,

• "
That a Select Cunirnit tee be sppointedito inqtfire into tits
mode of col tee.titag tithes ; and all, cirettatstatlCC4 .relative tv
the levying btid col letting chem.".

He hoped the House would'uot obje& to this mo-
tion, lest it should be: coobtrued into refusal .0.

hearing .the complaint-, of, that people.. adverc-
ei to the situation of Ireland, where
.the inh:thi-.
tants, from the refusal. •of .emancipation,-
driven into .21 state of despair:: He :(4welt on
progress_ of tbe•Fieticii in . the Tenitisnla,-and Alto
well grounded apprehension of invasi ti ; and r. 11l
these circumstances, he trusted that the.Pfinle,;•Ali"
nister would net object to his motion.

Mr. WELLESLEY'POLE reeuetted the indulgence
of the'Housefer a fel.v Minutes, while he stzited`hi9`
sentiments. upon the subject _which the Hon..
tleman ,had brought forward. It was 'one
-had-long -engaged.his attention, aid- liaLrbeen the
tabject,• of his most anxious SolicitUde .; -it was-one
to which his Majesty's Ministers had -most seriotiVY.
devoted their theughts. In rnanyr44, the poittiti
which had been stated by the Hon. Gentleman
had just fiat (.164.11, he pertedly concurred. He
mitted ,hit it was a sUbjea of the gremest import-
.ance,,and that it was the: duty of Goferninent to
apply a remedy to the evils confplained -of, providA"
it could be done.consistent with-justice; but be
;not agree with the. Hun..Gentiernan, with regard
to the remedy, which he had sutlesied; nor could ha.
:give his assent to the Motion with w loch the Hon-
Gentleman had.. concluded. Ho could not give his
,his assent to a motion for the House now 16 appoint
a Committee to inquire into tlik. snbjeet, because
he thi-inght it would -be.most a jtuioiis to the cause
Which -all- patties -114 in view, and! most unjust 10
the parties concerned, for ilk.. House to appoint 3
Cotnmittee to inquire --into this subject; without
.seeing their `way much more clearly than they (11,1 at
present, and-without having: some rational pro-pea •
that that inquiry would be attended with success.
If . the Hon. Gentlethati had mok'ed for lea-i'c to
bring in a Bill; and had s'aied the provisions which
he meant to introduce= into it, :if - nehad -pro, Tse'l '
any specific plan, he. vL otild have been ready to (is-
-cuss .that plan; -but theHon;'Gentlemini had
pur-
Sued a different-COorkm& hel pro(ised, to ref'r
all the petiborfs, winch had lieea.piSeated, to die
• Mils; to a Qum mittee; andTiodesire it to consider
the whole subjerSt, and to devise s.ante remedy;
_al.".
th-011gtithe Hoff: ,Gc.-Mtlehiiiti Maisel( had *not,
all the.;,,-t-or:nn.tioO that he had obtained, and withal'.
had employed, .bei:-n able the diligence which he
propose any:plan to the House himself. Th. Hon.
Gentleman had stated; that the great -evil•respecting-
tythes, arose from the mode of collecting them-4!
:That he did not accuse. the.body rat the Cierge -hut -
the greater part of the opufessions•were prattis;d by
the Proaors, WhoMthe Clergy were obliged toe
plOy. It appeared to hint that. he Honnurahle
Gentleman was mistaken- with respect to the scitire°
of the grievances which were complained of. 111°''
grievances; in
,his opinion, arose from:a cause not
perhaps generally known to the Membe:-sof, 1h:1r
House, but it %4;.as proper " that it should be faid,7'
stated to them. A practice .had prevailed generakt
throughout Ireland tor a great many years, of letting
their lands by public cant, that is, of letting them 1°
the, highest bidder, without ail consideration of .
inctunbrances to. which the land-was' li bl.. '£h6
consequence was, that. ignorant persons..b d for Vid, •
Lind; and are the fa ValUe for it; withunt at I'4
Considering that in addition to the. very high
that they paid, that they had al,o to pay tythes. It
appeared to-han that the tythes ought to bt•
tiered as the first rent to 1„-+.1nch the land:as
jet but ignorant 1:-.eri;ons, as he had before staled'
in their eagerness to, get the land; agreed to pay tois;'
full:extent of its value, witho,..t- refletting
sides. that rent they ~ had to pay the tythes, ,
landlord forced the tenant to pay the Ant, and v,.1“-'ll
they:were unable to pay the, tythes„ supported 010
.ag,antst the 'CLirgy and the Proilor, so that
the landlord was the oppl'essor, and not the Clero"-
man, the Lay Improptiator, or the "'rector. • •lie
could assure the Hotbe, that this subje:a let! heels`
for a long time under the coni:ieeratiott of
that several Bills had actually been prepared tel .Ibe •
purpose of applying some remi.dy, but neenviett
examination, it was found th could .01.4.1)-,,.
into etre& wits, justice to the parties iatertstod•
Honourable had.declared it to be • 4,-I';'
opinion, 'that none of hich
been suggested by those who hat devoted tit.z.:r
tention to this subjed, viz. those of coro

selling or of leasing.tha tythes,
ileSirecl...eife.6l, and yet each thele
been 'strongly recointmoded by,;; persons •k 4
bad devoted their time to the coriniderxian "17
this subje6t. in one part of his speech the Hu"
mutable Gentleittail steme,d to think 1: that. '
Clergy had an.undciubted. right to the Wboleof.
tythes," and yet when became to suggest his o'vfl
plan, he bad Stats.d., that in tnakihl..;,.the Clergy 3
eoMpensation, it should be for the tythes as the!
\vete first established,. and not for the tytlies as C;(1
were now. He , ready had. hover hard such
idea, broached before ; in all the' plans- which ha'
had ever beard suggested, it had, •never- mice bet:tt
propiised that the Chirgy should
.nut have; tbeic
rights fully secured. •in his view of the subject thot
objea ought• always to .be carefully. attended to;
(Sir J. Newport nodded, assept)--he was hippy ta,.
find tit*. upon that p,,hut he had the concurrence 01
the Honourable Baronet, who had turuedhis attete
lion F.,0 -much to theAnestion,:of tythes.
ininself awn and anxiously lookel- to this stibjeol,
nd front MI the reports whiCh he irad! 'seen r,!s*peifr
i g it, it appeared, to him that the :,apltppropri.ttoY.

Ttie
not

lilt t.