The Sun.
London, England, 1819-03-17 00:00:00

JUSTICE IN INDIA.

Mr. Itumg, in rising to make the motion of
which he had given no:ice on this subject, thought
he should best consult the wishes of the House,
and his own feelings, if 'he did not enter into the
discussion at present;. He should only make one
or two observations. He wished the House to
know that it. was completely in the dark with re-
spect to 'the miserable manner in which the ad-
Ministration of justice was-carried on in lbdia.
In saying this, he' did not,make an unsupported
assertion : the labours of the Committee of 1812
would show the facts on which •he founded his
opinion. Civil justice was virtually denied to
the bulk of the people in our East Indian terri-
tories, on account of the extraordinary expence
at which it was to be obtained. ' Before any in-_
dividuril could commence an action for the
covery of a debt, he was compelled to pay to the
Governnient a fee of from-50 to one per cent, on
its amount, as it was larger or decreased. There
was besides a heavy stamp duty, anti the. enor-
mous expence was altogether a denial of justice.—
Another set ions ground of complaint was, 'that
for years no decision could he obtained. In the
Reports of the Committee to which he .had al-
luded,' it was even stated that a long life could
not suffice-'to obtain a decision in the Coatis in
lodic Those abuses had • increased year after
year, and the situation oflthe inhabitants of lieu-
gal was growing worse and worse. Ile did not
lay the blame on any individual, but on the sys-
tem itself, ' For the extensive system established
by Lord Cornwallis in 1792 in *lndia, was abet ed
in some parts, and not uniformly adhered to. He
then moved for Copies or Extracts of various
Dispatches from the Court of Governors to the
several Gqvernments of India, respecting the ad-
mitristration of justice, both civd timd
and the police in that country, from 1810 to the
present time.
_

Mr. CAN:iING acknowledged that a difference
and a controversy existed; not, however, re-
specting the excellence, but the adaptation of the
system to the habits of the country. lie was
tiot disposed to admit of the high colouring given

ownwould li
thatG
ther that system was as fitly adapted as it had bee",
enhteicd:ans tnooti
intended by the great. add benevolent man who
had introduced it into India. approaching
whatever proceeded from such a man, howevg;
it should he done with reverence and doubt.
agreed with the Hon. Gentleman that the OW:
nistration of justice in India ought to be kept
under the coutroul of the authorities at bogie!
eedpltcot picture,
doubt uctv hie"!
and that one of the hest means to be adopted foil
that purpose was the publicity of tbeir proceed
ings from time to time. He contended that t"
papers moved for were so voluminous that if 114
were all to be examined the day of their discus'
slot; would never arrive. He
fore selected among them the four which weed
ended that
most satisfactory. And he recomm
which went by the name of the Fifth Report,
conveying the most complete abstract of all
information received in this country, and as ..°6
(Mr. C.) had
fording sufficient light to employ the 10111°5f :t;
search and attention of the House till the
when the discussion on the subject Should td"
place. for
Lord MORPRTH thanked the Hon. Mover Ots
havingintrodoced such a subject to the Hoo'c' ref
was decidedly of opinion that, whatever exPell;as
we might throw On the natives--wherever "tete.,
toe might adopt to crush and range [ital) Strut'
there;
under our dominion;' the best secoril for
•
empire was a strict administration at jos'ieei; ,s to
Sir W BURRoUGHS contended, that
the regulations introduced by L,,rd
re
there were no regular Ctn. ti in India Jul eon...
there was no justice. That great mall bisi(ci, he
stilted him at the time•ors the system (sir
proposed to establish, and which bad (14 OS
William's) unqualified concorreoce. Tlin4liti"
introduction bad been attended with gTt'„%ll
;114
enities:it bat! proceeded with more :0‘
could have been reasonable eip-cred• 111`" Go.
creased the attachment of the people t" "111,
vernment, and induced in *hi wt -s to eilt4:ria:int
to our territori. s from other sates.hsa
deny that it might contain great tl fects,b3( I'Dos
done and continued to produce much good• nvot
System of Police was that witch reVired Iso
consideration and a tlierldlrlent. "Id '14'0.0
opportunity of ascertaining I,oty wretched it.
eats
in the City of Calcutta ;, a city which ennui'!" hi'
population of between 750 and 800,000 hilor
tants, of all nations, all creeo4, all efu/(1,0
scents. All his efforia to nnprove it, rb
,se
ably assisted, has proved vain lo sonic igistiflere
Magistrates had private gaols of thetr 00". - even
they kept individuals for months, before 'll,lheitt;
ascertained the nature of the charges agtit"g` r„so
He then quoted several cases where frbe
abuses of this kind had prevailA, and pleg9e ,joes
importance of the subject ou the considers
of the House. f 181,1
Mr. Huns stated, that the Committee ° was'
had reported that it often happened 'that "1"
elapsed be; ore tot individual was brOttgli!
'r ttetß
hearing ; that fluring that time be was c";
in a crowded prison, where de: th fretittcgilli.ero
claret!, before it was as .ertaiurd vvilt.rher, um'
was any real charge against him. Ile thell.
pined that the whole system of 13"g';ij '
was conducted by a set of eee bar srie' I" --leee,e.4
rPal'llYynfileela)td hreohGblevresr,"Csile)::;'litat d'ibheeesti; lell:;2-C-aly.
tutu King's evidence, and to whom 10""'ir
Magistrates entrusted the execution of their „t:irt
rants. With regpect to the want of ec"uub-ii,,ed
the Judicial department, it might be tisCCr",,,
trolll-Ihis NCI, flint whit reas the whole revs"(ii-ci,l
India was 17,000,0001 the ex pence or t be.Pliy
and police establishment Bruno:ire(' :Inn"' l
e.
1,57t1,0001. or neatly one-eleventh of tit' revs n
rba
ow
• Mr. lit.rcHttqsorii wished to id,press 9
,ny's
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, and 11.1 s 11'9
Ministers, the necessity of tubing mrattr's 1001:;eb
prove, the wretched system of p
were subjected not less t ban the 60 milli's' e, •
habitants who belonged to our !wild" ""i:eut L
Mr. CANNING had Clpinine(} vhiell he
his miud on the subject. I,' was one vet ` kO. no ,
had meditated day and night, and vet he t:)6res4
shame to himself fur.uot being ablero
more decided opii`eion. As to the wh0'e.4;,19/,
of the Police, it had been amendrit „oder Su

East, and its evil,. were now done avvr"'",, 005'
After a few words From Sir Wes. 15°6- °Li

the tnotion was agreed to. ' le 00
Mr, flume then moved for:Aeronnts Pg ri t,
pence of the Pollee and Jnoteial Est3bli,'Allillene"(
in foot districts of Ineia,' flow 1792 to ,7-
ifi'ciit.
later, if possible, and tor Accounts ,of 11 Foil
c
hArges in the thr,ee Presidencies of 13e00.",, tbe'
Saint George,. and Bombay, front 1810 17

I present time.—Agreed to,
INSOLVENT. DEBTOPS' ACT. , „r' 01
The ATTORNEY-6gAlliniAL 1.;;;ili, H 11i5t.te
View of the state of the laWs rP•petimillg PA!1•,47
previous to the passing of the j„,„l,,ent Pe''' )fie
Act in 1813. It was then...lo,mnd neces-sql,‘ :s'.
tsting law would
sort. from tithe to time to partial tue' soro';""el eioilo
pDtvieo.ausleddbiehereedurcee:
'expire in cm. :re,el'ir I. -'45
Olt.'
and if not renew!?(l with sock ifterHl:al,9 3-
(Or
necessity of the ea t: tiliv,itt r, cif' ,ire , 'He -°"inthts
I ebtor liii.;jll lee Itpt in r•• . r life• s.- "175 u
ci: tor°
Dnrin. inthe existence of the pre'.eot 14 - - cnioi p .
C°P;lntif Ices had been appointed to e" .- 1 Att
with the view of arnemlint, it, awl ate 'lc( 4101"
passed, giving .to the jodge or the In'rea,,
vent Debtors'' Court greater ' pow( r (0 Ila
'
mand Debtors, if not sa-i'fi'd vvith
t tit.t
honesty of their conduct. All agreed tha i&
tot ile'
allow flritsPfoe,lll:::l:l:ll:elitien_irst elt.
principle of the law 'was right, Mil thaii, ...•
wattled correction in some of I's nri""`“--;ii •
Most Of the petitions presented to I hc,l-lotoe -.:
Prestlttl Him opinion, and min these groundi il ~t. 14:
neared necessary to appoint a Comumittee to c.-05
sitter the lelW as it stood; as well as I,e fitterl'ed(P
presented against it; There was no subiect
t.
for the attention of the floAse, titan !he i'"eirile,
alit 4plestion whether there shoiddi not be si 5.
law of
this sr"' IffiToina pats of the judicial sY
tern of the land 1,,e
siad of 'he 1"111.'","j ,ffieB4l t:
sorts 10 ,‘ hich Parliament -had heels ouo‘f -jo
have recourse for the lost century, anal Whiell' ot
the latter part of time present rei1:11, hall l""',11, 'rier • '
quired os often es yvery two year,. ,I were what,
tit
that the Debtor and Creditor bi)o u 1 ~
0 know "::
-terms they stood towards each other. Wit'

41(1
Mi
'fhb,

to
at,
toilt,
114.

ip~vo to
01% It
Liot c

boa
wilco
wog

that

the
tif"
re'
iale
akg

nOCHESTER ELECTION.
\VI-I\7N mover!. that !he order PO have iL
titl'llLltes of Eric) r!,
tielore to Colylniittee pro
xi"t.tl the I-17,44v
discLarged•
'3l.'tiNDT
his ohieet wls, in calling'
t"
eVidtGlee, tsa 1c the peticivner4 see o a what

t3Pett to tote individual al Ole head, and thnt,a en"
ged M i lie service of the lusolthilt Debtors'
soul'! 41(ente the existence of the Act, no one
oirreliteiyn.actitte
.(::11 be happier than they would be of 'ltavii,,g
taetrl,,itirtiahly investigated. He p.ite
their
Intl iiidustry uore testimony to the ability
whit which the business of that
%%aim- had been conclacteil. All that it st,as pas-
the
lible to he done had been done. tie wished
Vlint
ie matter to he taken into consideration, and
Alin ratter
the decision a great ituprovernent
1111 r "v(t of England, which was the only coon-
l'Y lliat had no permanent legislation on that im"
tartan, ...,,,,
'"ol ct. He then moved that a Select
o'llthrtittee he appointed to take into considera:
Tr( the stale of
t la,olt the Ltw respecting the discharge
uent Debtors, and the various Acts pass-
-lin !he 5311, 54•11, and 56th years of its Ma-
. tleia‘Y, to remedy the same, with the effects pro-
let'll thereby, and to report theft observations
Itth,""tt, and oti the best means of rea
. 'n the
den g
'.-411(1 Acts c tfective.
w.(lt• Alilt•tman WiIITHMAN contended, that not-
ti: 11”tiodirig the tW
o attempl,.
ts tnaile since the
1
i.ill'ir'g of the Act to
}intend and niter it, the
4"471.ce which it created continued to exist.
.ll' coercive!) that a subject, more important, !s
iet',ffected the moral.: of the people and public
tio(it, could tint oceopy the attention of the,
tt,tlh He agreed with the Hon. and Learned
I„.lvrnia that/ some law should be passed to give
•,.,,ti,
am Yto creditors, and at the Sdn:". time protect
..
l'il.'ottitititte debtors. That was the objc.tc, of nil
4 P,nitions that had been presorted. He th''',
trriew a comparison between the present Act anti
foelatissiot'is of liankroptcy, and thought the la
I Prtterahlt traer as they enabled those
bi,,,i, e 1111 Ilse 0 , ,
to "ad tot rusted their property to any intlivai,.:l,
Zane art • est lion in the midst of a career of extrava-
,.
II , . helots lie had wasted it all away. He
.had
ti: et seen at, tintao„,, lit which substantial itis-f
13:,_14111 not )teen obtained under Commi,ions o
lit'lsrapt,,.._,
y it the Assignees lord done their duty.
A nnoi • •
ilt(• eantea that under the Insolvent Debtors'
II„,'," Debtor might go into the Rules (il
.)e
laal;° to. the Fleet, with 10,0001 tit his creditors' a
laiuirir'Y, who bad no means of
recovering'tance of
Is ti I'g'• Ile then mentioned several ins
1t.i!,% conduct, and contended that it there were
ern erg
•ii
who had remained 20 and 30 years
ooli.eniettt, it
Was
not hi consequence of cruelty
tiiiii liner of their creditors, but because they
11,1" t•honse to give tip their property, to take
rat the of the Act. He maintained that the
)
1)4,,,,'°(10rum vvits delusive, as the Court had 1 o
114" r to inqiiite into the way in which the debtor
)1 tlPent his p y and to ascertain whether
41'1-1,44Ve UP
thel)it(:iwellet-Piit. If the honourable
lica e."i'vtl Gen.l•antin would .. xtenci tle provia
1'1.14 °I
:11e 1""1(k. Act, and amend the Bankrupt
•ike4lB' 14ete woul I be no necessity for a measure
kthe p,. (
r , eSt:111.
%Ur 't AlttheititmgiE was of opinion that his Ho-
et.:," h"d Learned Filen() had tekenthebtelset
;,istde Ili aiming to refer to a Committee t
'")(is 1.11/i°l) of the existing law,. the alter;-
lit 'liielt ' •
thvi, „ i it might nitdergo, and the. p.etitions,
aki. 'a ior •
t; 'ke„ -, 14 repeal. As a Commissioner or
-'4't -o's 1-' • contradicted the aSSeI-
tA 1 !it !'itself, he • justice
1;1'11 beliet, Hooottrable Alderman, that
the
-44,.
A come in every case. How could
kllle t\-..14"t1an• Iso state that it was the fault of
ali. 1 4'
lIR
ra'
1
',it 13 a . ht. lament i ' a debtor went into the
of his crecli-
, t If t " rtismA with the property
vet th oell, i
_, , , ;,1(1 take the benefit
Rai tir Att " ,5a , a that he co
I!, it , and siiii-ivtain dm, property, then he
a ( ' o, the law ; but
h'tliat 1"e es; alit' ta 1 ' '''' '"'"1"
411 it le
..- 18 '-‘
.1- ..
unlicsble. The
a. Ai , Saul was to,%tly i" i-r • d
,rld,,, , (lertnan had in fact anly epootlati e , that
t pt..ctir:able to
11irl)ris;:,',.1PFesent glc it cras no .
.s
to
e eft.. 4'!Pot. in prison ato tone. A .
Ivlts Lotto
to ifwf , ram, .ins,euid of to inn in,iuriot.si:.,,,tt,
'et rltEeht principle on which it- wag possible'
aa 1 . a ti ,
' 1 e I 4 - ''''''tlaild had grown irito prosperity
41. P. trall'ander it, influence
N 4 b flußsat w ' ' I the coursv,adopta
o ,111, H atm)). eulogise(
1,,- Pre,' ~-; "n• and Learned Attorney-General on
1-1.1,461-.1 ~,,„„sion. . An Tnsolvent Law Was
,iwr Of thel'l4l:l:nlaiiity and justice, And Ike charac-
-111 t,,,, ".°r"eY-General was at stake, that be
e'ieaeve It ill such a manner as to meet the
kr.
j...„!1f the case.
Tit Ilderai„, ti,
still a nuxiot -.. wAITIIMAN explained.
r, „...._ ) was then agreed to, aod.the Hon...
rir'Pri,(.4";:e(l Gentierip„, . (the Attorney-General)
•i\t\iaiti;e C. orionittee, which included the follow-
ti' ettio • " :---
ta ' Ata,°„rtea-Generat anra (\lmam Sir M. W. Ridlev,
411:1'11.ktit,!41"y%Vaigitua ''iii-ai erer-w;a3Y, M.
Mani"' Mr.
1v44 ' "44 1-1114 lirlui4.l. ' Mr. Alderman Wood, Mr.
411''?:11,k.11.1.43;:irt.barvist.-Gia:rti:er.'al *Gascoir.n.er,
.Sir____ Robert
'hill • A/41„i, le. Landk,. Mr. lazaktrleb m ..I.`au 7 .n
44" Itl thlll4:`Nl . then-proposed to add certain
e ntl I)' e Lotrottittee, but after some conver-
-ra„,. eta_
,
t,,‘,41e, %;'ll the Attorney-General, Mr..Abera
a ,li INIZt• Courrenay, •Mr. Baring, ann Lord
vni ""a th • t
%Li on, e mutton :vas negatived without
-tik
Sir a 1001
Art p; , %,-. Iv ON OF NIENIBtRS Or I).IILLIykIE-=`.;l'.
11It'itilit t AtillkNDEß said, it was not his object. 174.`laus 4 blink forward his motion to trouble
e%il()A bee, with many observations. Since the
//i2,teti ves'Yet-tt Great Po itain and Ireland, a law
l:il i,„ :phi set'
Made the same qualifications to the
I,,,everl° the ,Englisl, Members ; io Scot land,
)4,-The e:, the case was different, and his object
cat • ~,tend the-plovisions of that law to Scot-
t,. i liiirt eoaelaiecl by moving for leave to tiring
ei'llet. PF:rrree4ll.lng the d)dalification of Mem-.
44 r. ll_ iatiielit.
hr)! Whet4,ClUGUiat said, I. was not prepared to
r ttidsi iler it vvotil,l tiot be wise to extend the
t'be °lts (if ti , ‘,,thr).l)jec., le law to Scotland. There was
tih:.l tti 5..,‘.1011 to the kilt which it would be as'
,ilPattit...l(e at an early stage. There was a re-
..iiitt ,_l4 in the law as it exiattd betweett &Oen('
41 I,
therelel tid, bni in the Bin of 'i li G • tle-
-44 " was •le on. to
lind lvatild ti, untie, and by that Bill an English,
..01_ dVe 110 tight to be elected for ''''
ocut.
111)0
li "4°' a S"tunn'un Might be elected for
Si l•
In e rG. WA.
ti -)Ll)lati --nEwDeR made a Nye observations
the lain; 411°11, and leave was gives to bring in

I ot.
gt.ntmas the toznir:litee tieted, thotight
icy were at least entitled to be. made .acquainted
with so much, Arid it would let future petitioners
see their Wnv. He Would not say whether the
sitting Member was or Was not duly elected, but
it was understood that he was nor properly qua-
lifiA, and a general
.mettdug of the electors had
been called. It was then .decided that the opi-
nion of Counsel should be taken, arid typo- eminent
lavOyers gave their opinion that the grounds of
the petition were legal and solid ; the Electort
acted on this opinion--i-a petition was presented,
and that petition was voted frivolous and Vexa-
tious; and this decision was made by the Com-
mittee, on a point of law that had never been
coot.,idered or ascertained.

Lord CASTLEREAGH spoke to 'order. He con-
tended that the judicial decision of the Committee
waa not to be assailed—that it was final, and a
3oleinu act, and should not be questioned" by any
Gentleman upon the opinion of a lawyer.
Mr. BENNET contended, that he had a right
'to observe on the decision of the Committee—
that he had a right to call for the evidence on
which they decided. The most solemn decrees
toe Lord Chancellor, and the Judges of
the land, wete open to observation. He
did not see why the Committee alone should
be above it. He. would not willingly reflect
upon the conduct or the acts of the Com-
mittee ; but though they were pure, they were not
infallible—they might fall into error. They had
decided on a point of law, on a point never
,argued, and therefore never ascertainedthey
1..al decided so against the opinion of two able
,cayers, and, with every respect for the Com-
mittee, he was more inclined to follow the opi-
Mon of those who were lawyers', upon a point of
law, than those who were not. He thought the
Committee might have committed an error in
juda atent, he insinuated nothing more.
Lord NoRMANBY said, the opinion be bad ex-
pressed in the Committee, subsequent considera-
tion only served to confirm. He concurred with
the Committee as to the validity of the Sitting
Member's title ; hut he thought as to the point of
law, that on the face of the Act of Parliament
there was nilleh room for legal a'gument.
Mr. Srottoes BOURNS said, he thought the
words of the Act as carrying a plain meaning, and
that the Members of the Committee were as well
able to decide on the meaning of the Act as lawyers
could be. He differed from an Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Bennet), who said the law had not been
ascertained—it bad been invariably acted on ;
and if it was never argued, it was because it was
never questioned-
Mr. TIERNEY said, the question was, whether
the Petitiou vvai vexatious ? Now, he would ask,
could it he said with justice, that men had acted
vexatiously who acted from consideration, under
the advice of Counsel, and under the sincere im-
pression that they were right ?

After some otiservatioos from Lord CASTI.B.
REAGH and Mr. WYNN, the motion was put and
agreed to.

WINDSOR ESTABLISHMENT.

Sir A. Hora rose to move his Resolution, that
six tquerries be continued on the Royal Establish-
ment ar Windsor, but frtsi» the confusion which
prev.ided in the Gallery, and the low tong of voice
in the Honourable -Gentleman spoke. a
considerable part of what lie said was not 'audible
in !he Gallery. The Officers, he said, who held
the rank of Equerries to his Majesty, bad been at
all times the companions of his. tecreation. Ought
his Majesty; he would ask, after having found the
'sante men always by his side, now in the 59!1i
yea' of his reign, tool the 82d of his age, to find
them removed; if the Almighty shatild please to
restore bins rn the full aril unclouded possession
of his reason ? In the instance of General
' Spencer, his Majesty appointed him not only as
a Wan. whom he approved, but also as one pre-
viously approved of by his country. The ap-
:.ointment of General Wyuyard, another of the
Eqtterries, was occasioued by the love which
he bore to his Majesty's father. The dismis-
sal of ,theie two Officers would, he conceived,
disqualify that attendance which he 'trusted the
House - would judge. necessary • for his Majesty ;
another Gentleman, who
...held a similar appoint-
ment, Lad been 59 years in the service ; a fourth,
55 years; a fifth, 50 years ; and a sixth, forty-
four years. • He 'mentioned-this as a proof of the
claims of the Officers who. held these situatians,
and he trusted that the House would give their I
claims .a fair and candid consideration.-- [From
the noise Which prevailed in the House, it was
impossible to hear distinctly the part of the Hon.
Member's :speech which immediately followed.]
He was linden-trona to say, that the question of
emolument had: gone from this cause, because the
sum on the estimates of the Committee for the
Windsor Establishtnent was voted on the sappo-
sition that .there should be six Equerries. He
could easily conceive that the Committee, when
tHey were—called upon to decide* this question,
made a great deal of mutual concession ; but svhat'
good could there possibly result' from continuing
oily four of the Equerries, at ,anexpence origi-
nally intended • for the entire six He trusted
hat the House would decide oh the Resolution
which he was about to submit, with some view to
what .might be considered At his, Majesty's Wishes
upon the subject. On reference to several docu-
ments at different periods, he Induct that in 1780
his Majesty hoti seven Equerries, arid that he, of
his own accord, reduced them to five. Mr. Burke,.
at that period,.avaa decidedly of opinion, that Pat-
!lament should not interfere with the appointment'
of his, Majesty's 'Equerries. In 1782, he said
that all thanks:l'ocm due to his. Majesty, who had
commenced reduCtious In• his 041) Household. If,
then, inithe year 1782,.Mr. Burke Would not, by-
any oet of his, attack the Sovereign upon .'iris sob=
Ject when in the zenith of'his poWcr, ought Par-
liament, now that be was blir..;hted by the hand of
God, to break in upon the dignity of the Crown ?
—(Hear, hear, hear !)—Chivalry required them
to succour the !lelpless -and oppressed on all
nit especially in a'case like that now
the House. There was one subject of still
getter importance to notice. The King might, '
before his death, awaken to the Lull reco-
'cly of his intellect ; the hand that struck the
blow migut, and he considered it not only as yos.
bible, but extremely probable, restore his Ma}esty.
to the full vigour of his uuderstandiug. He telt

thin lent tint 1.61164 his
Nitisty to a itiOwledge of the past glories of hit
"reign, Unfree the eneiri4 of„Europe and So-
cial ()Mei. hail been distroYed. He conelkided by
moving., That although it expedient, in the
present state of hitt Majesty's health, that no un-
reasonable otpente thould be Incurred in the Ls'.
tablishment at Windsor, yet it is the opinioir of
the House, that it ought to be kept up such a
manner as to mark the dignity of hill Majesty,
and the attachment of his people, and that thei-e.!•
fore six Equerries ought to be continued on• the
Itoyal Establishment at Windsor.—(A laugh from
the Opposition •,,liench.)
Mr. PEHCIVAL (hiS maiden speech), iii rising to
second the motion, said, that the only unpleasant
sensation which he felt was lu consequence of the
last disrespectful laugh troll] the other side of the
House, against his old, and he might formerly
Lave said, respected King.--(Hear, hear ! from
the Ministerial side.)--=On a recent occasion he
had felt the utmost indignation at a propcisition
which bad emanated from the other side of the
House for seizing on the King's private property.
Baffled in that attempt, they had on a subsequent
occasion turned their hack upon their own ad-
' mission, and endeavoured to argue that the Guar-
dian of his Majesty's Person was oat entitled to
that remuneration which, as they had previ-
ously consented, might be fairly paid to him
out of his Najesty's own private property. In-
dignant as be felt against those of .the, opposite
side upon each of these occasions, he however re,
strained himself from addressing the House, but
be thought that the present question ought to be
supported on different motives,, and lie therefore
came forward, as it was the duty of every firm
friend to hit Sovereign, on an occasion when
his rights were despised on one hand and ne-
glected on the other. The fault, he most say,
arose on his side oldie House, because Ministers

had not tiared to bring the question of the Wind-
sor Establishment on their own responsibility,
At the same. time that he deplored the con-
duct of Ministers on this single occasion,
he should do them the justice to say, that
their error had been occasioned by the line of
unremitted harassing pursued by their adver-
saries. It was by pursuing such a system that
they wished to gain applause, coming from their
General Elections tat from the pasture of popula-
iity.—(Langhter from the Opposition.)—[The
Hon. Member appeared somewhat disconcerted
here and in other parts of his speech ; during his
pansea he was cheered by both sides of the
House.--In the Committee on the Windsor Esta-
blishment, the &Ale Lord let in sonic of those
whom it was his object to conciliate, and what
had been the effect ?The persons who were anxious
for applause 14ad produced their great work of
economy, which ended in a saving of 10,0001., by
which they might boast of having relieved each
individual of a farthing, or rather a fraction, which
would almost bsille denothination. Such was the
mighty theme for their exultation and popula-
rity !--(Hear, hear, hear !)—lly this proceeding
they had shown their disrespect and ingratitude
to the Crown, sad a hard and unkind treatment
to their old Sovereign. But the principle of eco-
nomy was no longer in question ;—it bail been
conceded. It was now only for them to deter-
Mine whether they would give an additional kick
of insult to the sick Lion.—(The disapprobation
expressed against this sentence,on the opposite side,

prevented the hearing the remainder of .it distinct-
ly.)—The Hon. L\l mher concluded by saving; that
if he had any power he should endeavour to im-
press upon the house the necessity of removing
tbe itigroa which might otherwise be attached to it,
if they should refuse to comply with the motion.

'Lord CAsTLERRAGII said he had agreed to the
vote of the Committee certainly very unwillingly,
but in agreeing to it he did not then nor now
think it was a vote liable to all the objections
raised against it by his Honourable and Gallant
Friend (Sir A. Hope). But having agreed to it
in the Committee, and having brouAlit forward
the Bill as founded on the Report, lie should
think himself s'atiting in good faith to the Com-
mittee if be now agreed to the proposal of his
Hon. and Gallant Friend. At the same time he
must admit, that there was and ought to,be an
appeal flout the Committee to the affection borne
by the House to his Majesty's person. His Hon.
Friend (Mr. Perceval) had accused bisM.i.jest
Ministers of acting with a degree.of weak
this matter—weakness amonntiog almost ,0 p
sillanimity. He must 'deny this charge, and be
was sure the Holtst would think it not warranted.
A question rela,iVe to the Windsor Establishment
could not be. so well settled and arranged in any
way as in a Select Committee. • HaVing opened
the whole plan to the House, and it having voted
its acquiescence in the Report, he could not by
any means concur in the motion now made, or
approve of it. He concluded by moving the pre-
vious question.

Sir A. HOPE anti Lord CASTLEREAGH mutually
explained.
' The Hon. Mr. LAMB said, that be bad listened
• with as much plea Sure as any Meinber on die
other side of the Hume to the Hon. Gentleman
who had spoken last .but one. The recollections
which had pressed upon the mind of every man in
'the House. in consequence of the subject on
'which be had higtken, had given his itpieeh an ad-
ditional interest of a very peculiar nature—. Not-,
•withstanding that, he would make bold to tell
'him, that the laugh which had cot»e front the side
ot the House nn which he (Mr. Lamb) sat, and
'which had excited such strong indignation on his
'('MI% Percival's) part, had • not beers directed
'against that revered 'individual, whose advanced
age and heavy misfortunes rendered him so
strong a contrast to the splendour of a crown.
thought that the Hon.Gentierna» would with-
draw his anger, when he was told.that.the laugh
:originated from the palpable inconsistency ot the
resolution. The preamble states in lofty inhguage
that the-WindsOf• Establishment ought AO he con-
ducted with all proper magnificence ; and then
ends with merely proposing the addition of two
paltry Equerries. When the beginning was
.60
'inconsistent with the end, ri could not create any
s»rprise that a laugh had been excited; and he
therefore trusted that the lion. GehtientAh would
forget his .anger, and be pacified by,t explatipt-
tion which wasi-offered him. He was nut at all
surprised ota Won't lie could not himself syin-

rfiathise with, the feeiingi the gon. Mover;
he (Mr. Lamb) knew his (Sir A. Hope's) sympa-
thy for the perSOlit who had lost these situations,
and was Sorry that be (Sir A. Hope) had not
stifled the expression of it for prudential reasons,
because, considering the quarter from whence it
carne, the expression of it was extremely impru-
dent. The Hon. Member then observed, the the
saving obtained by this reduction had been ridi-
culed tta being too paltry to deserve notice ; in hit
opinion, a paltry saving was a great ronsidera-
tion, inasmuch as in economy, it ras not to the
,pahrinesS of the stint, but to Ole inittility of the
expence, that the country would direct its at-'
tendon.

• Sir A. i-tops explained. He denied with much
indignation that he had any communication with '
any person, or was influenced from anv ynarter,
with respect to his proceedings in this •
matter.—
(Cheering.)

Sir .1. Ntcttot. observed; that there was a posit
sibility of his Majesty's recovery, and in such
case, he asked, what was the paltry saving. now
proposed, compared to the satisfaction the Sove4
reigti Would feel at beitig surrounded by his usual
attendants ; and he asked, if the Commons of
England Would desert a gracious Sovereign, wb o
bad governed them with such:,, justice,
.and set
such an excellent example of morality to ail his
subjects !
A• MartiiiBll,• whose name could not be learnt,'
spoke front under the Gallery. He observed, that
it the dignity of the Crown, and the safety of the
Constitution, depended upon the appoint went of
these two Equerries, it would be impossible to
stop there. If the two Equerries were so,requisite,
he saw no reason why Sir Harry Neale, and the
other Grooms of the Bed-shautber, should not be
restored to their places.
Mr:MARTIN (of Galway) rose amidst loud cries
of " question." It would occupy less time, he
said, to hear the few syllables he had to utter
than to endeavour to put him down. His only
object in rising, was to state to the [louse, that
when he heard that a motion for the restoration
of the two Equerries was to be made, he bad de-
clared that it would meet with his support. He
confessed that, after what had passed, he was in.
some embarrassment. This embarrassment arose
from a doubt in his own mind as to which side he
should give his vole, and this doubt was caused by
the manner in which the gallant officer had thought
fit to word his resolution. He was quite ready to
acquiesce in the motion for the restoration of the
two Equerries, but be was not prepared to agree
with the Hon.' Member in the reasons he had
coupled with the motion. Not to appear, how.
ever, inconsistent with his former declarations, he
should give his vote in favour of the motion of
the gallant General. He hoped the House would
excuse him for having trespasser' upon its time,
but he thought it incumbent upon him to give this
explanation in exculpation of his own conduct.
Mr. GRATTAN began, in a low tone of voiee, to.
give his reasons for his decided opposition to the
present motion. He had listened with coi.ider-,_
able attention to what had fallen from Houffitr-
able. Members who had preceded him. If Ice
thought for a moment that these two Equerries
wd.e. necessary to the comfort of his Mjest y—it he
thought them, after the most extensive and minute:
examination, capable of adding-to ,he dignity of
the Crown, he would -not have been prevent-
ed from giving r his support to the motion,
one thousand pounds on even ten thousand pounds,
were to expended in the maintenance of these
two individuals. He was satisfied that, in the'
present unfortunate condition of .his Majesty, no-
addition to his trails could possibly add to his
comfort. The finest ion of thedignityof the Crown
ought to be put entirely out of the view of this
st4)ject •the only manner in which the 'House
could testily its respect for the Sovereign was by
changing declarations into attentions, and by si-
lent reverence. There eras one topic relating to
this subject which he would merely allude to before
he sat down : he referred to the,graut of „10,0001.
given to his Royal Highness the Duke of York. He
believed that., had he been present on that occasion,
he should have voted against the motion ; but
with the recollection of the great services that
Noble. Personage had rendered to the Army and
to the Nation full upon his mind, he should have
given his vote et. ith, the utmost pain. With regard
to the present proposition, he was impressed with
eifferent ; and for the reasons he
lvat expressed, he should certainly give his
decided iii: c► MOtiOn.

A MEMB,,,, cmild not be learnt,
said a few words tit fa '!►e motion.
The IT wise ihen divide„---

For the. Mot ion ..
Fur the Previous Ques►ion

Majority against the M0ti0n..,.... 113
The Royai linusetiold Biil was then committed,"
and the Report brought iip.—Oideted to he taken
into consideration oh Friday next. The Bill was-
ordered to be printed.
SUPPLY.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved,.
that the,Report of the Committee of Supply
vii Contingencies Deficiency) be now taken into
considerm
Mr. C. HUTCHINSONT observed, that several or.
Jers, not less important than this, had alreadv
been postponed, anti suggested the proprieiy of
putting off the further consideration or the Re-
port. He trusted also, for the sake of humanity
(alluding, ..we suppose, to the anniversary of St.
Patrick's Day), that the Right lion. Gentleman
•
would postpone it beyond to-morrow.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER COOSellt.
ed to postpone it till Friday next.
The lkfari,tie Mutioy wA's rep(' the third time
apd passed.
DUKE OF WELLINGTON" ESTATE 11:LL.

TI CHANCELLtiIt of tllr El(CltriltlYPß brought
inn 13,6.10 woeful the Acts (b 4 G u. lid c. 164,
rrod'ss Gee►. c. 136), relatke to the plirolluse
of an E‘tate for the Duke of Welllo,z.on —Read
the first . and ordered to be read the second time
to-morrow.