The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-22 00:00:00

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and liberal conduct would be generally adopted, for there+
much of the irritation and excitement which prevailed would
be allayed. He thanked the House for the patience and atten-
tion with which they had heard him.—( Great laughter, occa-
sioned by the fact that during the whole of the Hon. Member's
speech the House was a scene of up-oar, so that scarcely a s
tenet of it was audible in the gallery.) He would give his
hearty support to the third reading of the Bill.
Lord F. EGERTON rose, and the House became per-
fectly silent. He said—l shall not long tresspass on the tins
of the House, for I am physically and mentally disqualified
from doing so.— ( Hear, hear,) I have listened with pain to
the speeches of the Hon. Members for Kent and Knaresbo-
rough, and must protest against their being supposed to re-
present the opinions of the Protestants of England —( Hoar,
hear.) I will not take it upon myself to say that no Protest-
ant voice has been raised from Ireland in opposition to the
measure; but I will confidently say that the Protestant voice
of Ireland is far from being unanimous.—( Hear, hear.) I
speak as the representative of a considerable portion of the
community. 1 have been in communication with my con-
stituents, and though ' I acknowledge the propriety of
freedom of opinion, and though I know that a large
body of the people of this country are opposed
to the grsnt ( Hear) and that their opposition
to the measure is deeply rooted in some of the best principles
and feelings of our nature, I still maintain the wisdom of
this policy, and deny that there is anything like unanimity in
the opposition to it. I must, I say, protest against any such
assumption.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the speech de-
livered by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, there is no.
thing in it which I feel myself bound to notice.—( Loud and
long-continued cries of " Hear, hear.") I might, perhaps,
from old recollections of Ireland, state my belief, that in ad-
ducing the name of St. George, the Hon. Member could not
have meant the St. George that was mentioned by the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite.
Mr. FERR A ND—I said so.
Lord F. EGERTON—The Mr. St. George to shorn the
Right Honour.ble Gentleman had alluded, was a resident
Protestant proprietor ; and I think Hon. Gentlemen opposite
will concur with me in what I state.—( Hi ar. ) The speech of
the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, to which I allude, was
delivered on a former occasion, and as I was not then in the
House, I will now take the liberty of saving a few words upon
it. The Hon. Gentleman quoted, and I think quoted directly,
a speech of mine at an election, which iefiected with unjusti.
fiable asperity on the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
Nottingham. Sir, I wise to explain to the House that those
allusions made by me to the conduct of that Right Hon. Baro-
net were totally unjustifiable in point of fact, and that I regret
having cast those aspersions upon his name.—( Loud cheers. )
With respect to the question before the House, I have very few
opinions to offer on it. If anything has occurred in the course
of the debate at all likely to modify or change the feelings with
which I first entered into the discussion, it would not be the
able speech of the Hon. Member for Newcastle-under.
Lyne, which has gone further to confirm and strengthen
me in my original opinion. Much of that speech contained a
very able picture of the state of Ireland. I admit this; but
what is the first question which must naturally suggest itself ?
Is it not this—What are you about to do ? What remedy are
you about to propose, for a state of things which has but one
parallel in the civilised world, and that parallel is to be found
in the island of Corsica, which is a very close one ? What
remedy does he propose ? What does he say we ought to do ?
He says, to administer and uphold the law.—( Hear, hear.)
Well, Sir, I believe in my conscience that there never was any
one Administration, shies the union, in which the Secretaries
for Ireland had not ardently and anxiously desired to do so. /
make no distinction of parties. Men may be mistaken in their
policy and in their opinions, but I say again, I believe there
was not one who did not wish honestly and fairly to adminise
ter the law. There is, therefore, no further use in
discussing such a remedy—it is perfectly futile and unnecessary.
I said before. and I now reiterate my perfect cenviction, that
if you treat Ireland in the manner proposed by the It'ght Hon.
Gentleman—if you are to proceed with the administration of
affairs there on the principle which the party that the Hon.
Member advocates profess—if you are to legislate for it on the
assumption that the Irish people are idolatrous—it is
better and safer for you to abandon dominion
over that country altogether.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear,"
from the Opposition.) I don not talk of the repeal of the Union
—I think it is a mischievous project, but I think it is better to
go further—to reparation itself.—( Renewed cries of " Hear,
hear.) If you support this principle you must carry it out to
the proper and legitimate extent.—( Hear, hear.) This prin-
ciple will involve the administration of the law in Canada,
Malta, the Mauritius, India, and its dependencies—( Hear,
hear)—in those parts placed beyond the sphere of all but a
stateraan's vision, " Where all the convex globe obtrudes be-
tween." Can you believe it possible that that national
anthem, which, to use the expression of a figura-
tive American, " girdles the earth with its music,"—will
have the continuity of its chain broken ? Can you think that
that flag should be hauled down which had been planted on the
heights of Quebec by Wolfe—or that country which had been
won by Clive and extended by Wellesley, should he res.ored
to the dominion of barbarous tyrants—that England, which had
risen like a giant after the loss of half a hemisphere in America,
would have yielded to the blow, though she might have felt it.
Can you believe that England would adopt a line of policy so
fatal ?—( Hear, hear.) Political economists may write as they
have written, that England would lie all the better for the loss
of these dependencies (an opinion in which I do not agree), but
I never saw a page written by any political economist, how-
ever paradoxical, in which it was not admitted, that if Ireland
was stricken from the empire, the last page of the history of
England's glory was' not turned over for ever.—( Cheers. )
Sir, do I say that the measure before the House is a direct
means of preventing such consequences as these ? Do I say
that a donation of 30,0(101. or three times 20,0001. is a sure re-
medy which you are to give as a preventive to consequences
such as these ? Far from it. But I ao say, that under the cir-
cumstances in which this question now conies before the House,
after the principles which have been laid down in its proposi-
tion, and after the expectations which havelbeen raised, I am
deeply anxious respecting this measure, not because I am under
deep apprehension, but I am under deeper anxiety than, I ever
felt, as there are some features in this debate which occasionally
remind me of the old times. They remind me so strongly that
I could almost see the graceful figure of Mr. Canning rising
here to reply, while a sonorous peroration of Sir Charles
Wetherell was still ringing in the House. Never did I feel
greater anxiety for the successful result of a measure before.
We arc called upon to resist this measure on the ground of reli-
gion. 1 have avoided treating the subject in a religious point of
view, and I have done so, because I for one do not like
To rush in where angels fear to tread."
Whatever may be the faith of the Roman Catholics respecting
auricular confession, I have a great objection to making a
confessional of your chair, Sir.—( Laughter.) But I take on
myself to say that no Scotch Calvinist on the hill more truly
believed his book than I do the book of truth on which I found
my belief. lam certainly not inclined to allow the dictation
of the Pope or a council of common authorities. Ido net be-
lieve in the infallibility of any human authority, arid those who
do I respectfully treat as persons in error. But I could net de-
nounce that as error without assuming to myself something si-
milar to infallibility. —(Loud cheers.) 1 read the sacred
volume by a glimmering and perhaps a fallible light,
but still it is a light of my own, for young men
do not see visions nor old men do not dream dreams—no miracles
are performed at the tours of Exeter-hall. The cloud does
not go before me by day, and a blight flame does not irradiate
by night my march in the wilderness. I believe, indeed, that
there is a light for my guidance, but 1 do not feel sufficient
confidence to enable me to say that those who are pursuing
other parallel, or, possibly, widely-diverging raths, are under
a sad delusion, and are diverging to their ruin.—( Loud and
continued cheering.) Our goal is a common one. 1 hope,
and pray, and believe, that many of us may reach it in come
mon —( The Noble Lord sat down amidst loud and continued
cheering.)

,
Mr. M‘LEAN next rose to address the House, but
he was heard with great impatience, inasmuch as
the majority of his observations did not reach the
said,
gallery
otherw
a s
alson a i t t
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ahi
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g that
as atheymerely approachingbelieved
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ont
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assiudreefao, m. He
H and that
thee
it would be succeeded by other a-d g- eater measures of a
similar character. He would put it to them not as illustrating
an argument, but as exhibitir.g a fact, that at a late meeting
of the heads of the Roman Catholic persuasien in this country.
the Noble Lord who proposed a vote of thanks to the Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government said that the
person must be more than purblind who believed that a paltry
grant of 30,000/ was intended as a final and isola'ed measure,
and if the House would allow him to refer to one senttnee
—( Loud cries of " No, no," and " Divide, Divide,"
during which the Honourable Member in vain attempted
to utter a single word)—to refer, he said., to one sentence-
-(" No, no," and great confusion)—of Lord Beaumont's, to
show what the universal feeling of the Catholics was on this
occasion.—( Renewed confusion, and cries of " Oh, oh.")
Lord Beaumont, in proposing a restlation, said that the
person must know little of the human heaFht,is coandunniutry, whosthave
costuudidiedimtaogliintetletphuatrpaosemtehree
Pgorliatnictalohf 3isto",oy of
001. would satisfy a
great majority of the sister country. He knew that he had
but little claim on their indulgence at that late hour.—( Cries
of " Hear, hear," and laughter)—but the conscientious re •
pugnance which he felt to this measure had induced him to
oppose the Right Hon. Baronet; and that repugnance:also com-
pelled him to state to the House—(Cries of Divide, divide,'
oh, oh," "order, order," and immense confusion, during
which the Hon. Member, having in vain attempted to make
himself heard, sat down.)

sir R. PEEL rose to address the House. He could not
but admit the reasonableness of the demand which had been
made for the immediate discussion on the present subject.
He could not. however, allow the present discussion to pass
without some observations from him. He must allude to the
observations that had been made by the Hon. Member for
Nevin Ale. It had been said the Government tkat ex.
isted at the present moment had done much against the Col-
lege of Maynooth. Now he had read many authors on the
subject, and their opinions generally were in its favour—
( Loud sheers.) there can be no doubt that the Cadholies
had done all they could to put an end to any outbreak between
them and the Protestants. He could not but admire the course
that had been pursued by Lord Castlereagh on this subject.
He believed the Hon. Member also said, that this vote to
Maynooth should not he made at the same time that the su-
perintendence of that college should be as exclusive as it was
at present, while he admitted that the Government had done
much to preserve the integrity of the Protestant Church in
this country. But now let him (Sir Robert Peel) remind
the Hon. Member of what the Government had done in
respect to the state of Ireland in the year 1843. In that year
the Government had 3 ',OOO soldiers in Ireland, and 10,000
police, to preserve the peace, while they had upon the coast a
strong naval force for the same purpose.—( Hear, hear)
In tact, they had done all that the law empowered them
to do for the maintenance of peace in that country.—( Hear. )
The Hon. Member admitted that those meanshad had the.
effect of asserting the majesty of the law ; and that another
of the consequences of them was, that the repeal rent had been
much reduced. That, then, was theoment when the
Government thought proper to propose measures for altering
the constitution of the country, and submitting to this House
remedial measures for the great complaints
of the people of
Ireland, and had the Hon. Member said that such was not the
proper time for cluing so. The Government had proved
their determination to resist everyai attempt at force or
inhteirmtihdearteionw,
were
et
nthoteyotislse•ei su
were also
r,
ter. mh w e
roe considerdemandedw hefor-
thientd
the pacification of Ireland. But the Hon. Member said
" Give protection to property—denounce the priests—enforce
the law." Now, let him ( Sir R. Peel) ask what was the
meaning of " enforce the law " in this country ? The only
remedy left in any country where the law was not suspended
was trial by jury ; but trial by jury was not available when the
great mass of the people were in such a position as the people
of Ireland were in at that time. Under these circumstances.
then, her Majesty's Government addressed themselves to what
they conceived to be remedial measures, and they bad adopted
this cours;, with all the foresight of the consequences which
would be likely to arise.—( Hear, hear.) He could assure the
Hon. Member that he deeply regretted the cession from him of
his political friends, who, honestly ant: conscientiously disap-
proving of the course he had adopted, had withdrawn their
confidence from him ; but, notwithstanding that, he must ever
claim for a Government charged with responsible "dutieos, t jute
right to examine their own judgment, without which.
Go—
vernment could discharge those duties with credit n
h
or advantage to the country.t—
remind Hon. Members that there.
positionw of a Mini tor.—Ht,
prehension on their minds as to
could
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his
present positions
Heara's hear.) He
mnaeteri a would
m i3"4-
was es proud as any manunderar
,00ubldligmatuicohn
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ant the of a private, independent MeV"
trbileu:t7hbHee
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