The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-24 00:00:00

NORTHUMBERLAND ATMOSPHERIC RAILWAY,

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.

2,142
464

2,480
4,319
1,554

1,450
15,408

552
4,791
17,241
967
3,668

Group X.
LONDON AND YORK LINE.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday

770
6,469
739
3,034
4,844
8,526

655
.1,522

285
1,314
5,997
5,981

4,1,09
948
529

1,628

By Mr. V. LEE—The cost of his coal at York was about 9s. a
ton ; of coke, I Os. 6d. or I Is. He preferred an eastern to a western
line. He had seen the Farringdon-street project, but a glance at
:he estimate had satisfied him that it was so ridiculous that he
bought no more about it.—(Laughter.)

By Mr. JAMES and Mr. WEBSTER—He understood that the Bir.
mingham and Gloucester line was about to be amalgamated with
the Midland Counties Railway. He believed that no one was aware
of the great revolution which would be effected in the coal trade
by the construction of the London and York Railway. He knew
enough of railways passing through towns to be aware that every
man conceived his rights were trenched on by them, and went to
law immediately; and he thought that the capital of the Farringdon.
street scheme would be swallowed up in legal expenses.
The Committee, at the close of this witness's evidence, adjourned
to twelve o'clock to-morrow (this day).

Group R.
DUBLIN AND BELFAST JUNCTION RAILWAY.
The evidence of Sir John: M'Neile (continued from our After.

noon Edition of yesterday.)
To Mr. ALEXANDER—The distance of the line from Newry
would be about three-quarters of a mile. Its height there would
be 240 feet above the level of the quay. The passengers station
would be about a mile distant from the town. It was his opinion
that the goods should be brought up from the harbours to the
railway on an inclined plane. There was no power in the Bill to
that effect. He was not aware of a petitiGn from
Newry against the line. The viaduct over the Boyne was 400
yards. The centre arch would be in span 250 feet, and 120 feet
those on each bide. The cut he estimated at 42,0001. The trade
of Drogheda was taken under the viaduct ; but he considered
from the increase of traffic that would take place new quays would
be formed. The trade of the town was at present between the
two bridges—that already over the Boyne, and the viaduct pro.
posed to be erected. The most expensive cutting would be
through granite south of Newry, and would cost Is. 6d. per cubic
yard. The heaviest works would be between Newry and Dundalk
A viaduct was proposed to be made across a valley at Drogheda.
It would cost 10,4521. Ibe Dundalk river was also to be crossed
by a viaduct, which he estimated at 2,7351. 12s. sd. The cost of
the permanent way was 3,0651. per mile. The engines he pro-
posed to use on the line were lighter than those used in England,
sixteen tons in weight, similar to those in use in America and
Germany.

The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at twelve o'clock.

Group W.
WAKEFIELD, PONTEFRACT, AND GOOLE RAILWAY.

Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.);

111 r. J. P. Leatherbow, clerk at the Normanton station of the
Manchester and Leeds Railway, examined by Messrs. BLAND and
WILKINs, stated that there was a junction at that station of the

Manchester and Leeds, York and North Midland, and Leeds and

Selby lines. The goods and passenger traffic that passed there was
very great. As many as eighty.six to ninety trains passed
in the course of the day. Of these twenty-seven
to twenty-eight were luggage trains. The direction from which
cattle and sheep came was Newcastle, Darlington, York, and
Selby, and they went to Wakefield, Rochdale, and Manchester.
Trains, consisting of as many as 100 waggons of cattle, passed
there every market-day ; and there were extra trains besides these.
There were from thirty to fifty cattle in each waggon. It required
two engines for one of these monster trains. Great delays occa-
sionally took place in consequence of this immense traffic. He
saw as many as five trains delayed there at one time for several
hours, and the confusion which arose was very great.
This witness was • subjected to a long cross-examination by
Messrs. PICKERING and KNOWLES.

Captain Lawns, manager of the Manchester and Leeds Railway,
confirmed the evidence of the last witness. He had made a pro-
position to the managers of the York and North Midland line to
remedy the confusion and delay at the Normanton station, but they
had resolutely refused to accede to it.

By Mr. KNOWLES—He could not speak as to the relative *pro.
portions of goods and merchandise which passed between Man.
chester and the eastern counties, and Manchester and Leeds, but
he thought the passenger traffic was rather greater between Man-
chester and Leeds than between Manchester and Hull.

Mr. 'Seaton, of Westbridge, near Pontefract, deposed to the
quantity of coal consumed by Pontefract, and the places on the
line of the proposed railway to the east of that town. He
calculated the quantity at 74,994 tons, and the amount which
would be saved to that district by the conveyance of these coals on
the line (calculating the carriage at Id. per ton) was 7,5001.
Mr KNowLes cross-examined this witness.
S. Cotton, auditor and accountant of the Manchester and Leeds
Railway—Was conversant with the modeof ascertaining anticipated
traffic on proposed lines of railway. The mode which he adopted
in ascertaining the traffic on the proposed line was by having six
different stations on the line from Wakefield to Goole, and appoint-
ing three persons at each of these stations to relieve one another
every six hours for fourteen days. These persons were to note
down in a book every one who passed, and every description o
goods and cattle. He had made his classifications from this recordf
and he found that there were 195,736 foot passengers a ho passed at
various distances between the extreme points of this line. Calculating
one half of these to go by the railway in third-class carriages, the
amount of income from this source would be 2,6 C 6L The omnibus
and pest-chaise passengers were 26,876 and doubling this number
(which was customary in such calculations with this class of pas.
sengers), the amount, at 2d. per mile per passenger, was 5,5401.
ss. 4d. The number of passengers by their own convey.
ances was 198,628, and calculating one-third of these as first
class passengers, the amount was 1,636/. The quantity of minerals
and heavy goods conveyed by canal had been calculated at 633,122
tons, and by diverting a quarter of that to the railway, at the
average of lid. per ton per mile, the amount would be 33,606/.
This proportion he considered a small one. Sometimes two-
thirds were taken, and not unfrequently it has hap.
pened that the rail had soept the canal altogether.
The passengersby packet from Knottingley to Goole were also taken
into account, and, assuming the half of them to go by rail, as
third-class passengers, the amount would be 233/. The live
stock were calculated at 75,127 head (including 61,600 sheep,
4,536 pigs, and the rest cows, &c.), and at 2d. per head this would
amount to 8,931/. The general merchandise and light goods
which were observed to be carted along the proposed
line was 47,000 tons, and the assumed traffic from
this source was estimated at 1,304/. He calculated the
working expenses at one-third of the estimated traffic, and as-
Burning the traffic at 46,0001., and the working expenses at about
18,6001., the income would be about 27,000!., or 7 per cent. on
the capital, 365,000 L
11,1 r. SEYbIOUR—Is one-third the usual proportion taken for the
working expenses ?
Mr. Cotton—The Parlianiebtary allowance is two-fifths or 40 per
cent., but the difference did not materially affect the estimate.
This witness was cross-examined at considerable length by Mr.
KNOWLES, as to his mode of classifying the estimates and ascertain-
ing the different calculations.

Mr. John Harris, engineer, examined by Mr. WILKINS—Was
connected with the Stcckton and Darlington Railway, and had been
engaged on several others in the north of England. He con-
sidered the litie under consideration to be the best of all
those that had, been projected to accommodate the population of that
disttict.

The Speaker having been announced to be at prayers, the Corn.
mittee then adjourned tin twelve o'clock to morrow.

Group EF.
DUNDEE AND PERTH (NORTH) RAILWAY.
Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

John Kennedy cross-examined by Mr. Pows—:Anticipates no

inconvenience to the traffic on the river near Dundee from the
construction of the line. A single rail would occupy about five
feet, and considers the removal of the carts would be a serious
injury to the traffic on the quay.
Mr. ANDREWS here put in a letter from the Tidal Commissioners,
concurring with the requirements of the Board of Admiralty, re-
specting the construction of the bridge over the Tay. The letter
bore date of the 22d (yesterday), and was relied on by the Counsel
for the promoters of the line as favourable to them, inasmuch as
they were prepared to insert a clause in their Bill promising to
adopt the course recommended by the Admiralty.

By Mr. HILDYARD—The witness referred to a passage' in Mr.
Mallett's reports, where he states that in paging a curve on the
Dalkey atmospheric line, at the rate of . hirty miles an hour, a shock
was so sensibly felt as to assure him that without the guard-rails
it was probable that the carriages belonging to the train
would have been thrown off the rails. Taking the limited
space of deviation on a curve of ten chains, guard rails were
absolutely necessary. The danger arising from passing curves
at the velocity proposed on the atmospheric principle would be much
greater than on the locomotive system. The greater the speed, the
greater would be the extent of the calamity,
Mr. Harrison Has then cross-examined most closely by Mr.
Sergeant \Vanxcttns►, fur the purpose of showing that he had over--
rated the traffic, and the incapability of the atmospheric principle
to work it, in consequence of unavoidable delays and derangement
of the trains. His testimony, however, remained unshaken.

Mr. HILDYARD having closed the case for the opponents of the
Northumberland Atmospheric Railway,

The CHAIRMAN intimated that it was the desire of the Committee
to have some further information from Mr. Brunch

Mr. Brunel was then called, and in answer to questions made
by the CHAIRMAN, stated that in calculating the power necessary to
be employed, he made allowances for the friction of air in the tube
and the resistance of the atmosphere, and that the theories formed
upon that subject were erroneous. Having taken all these things
into consideration, he came to the conclusion that trains could be
worked at the rate of forty miles an hour.

Sergeant WRANGIIAM then addresied the Committee to show the
superiority of the atmospheric over the locomotive system, and
contrasted the evidence on both sides.

Mr. Hunrsen, on the opposite side, impressed upon the Corn.
mittee the want of confidence displayed by the supporters of the
atmospheric principle, in never having made an experiment to any
great extent, and also the fact that if the Northumberland atmos.
pheric line were unopposed Wore the Committee by any other line,
it would not pay, as it was by no means so good a line as could be
made ; and if it now were allowed to pass, and turned out a failure,
it would create a great want of link to complete the chain of corn.
munication between London and Edinburgh. He trusted that the
Committee would not run such a risk, when they had•before them
the success of the locomotive system on the rest of the line.
The Committee, which sat till nearly seven o'clock, then ad.
journed till twelve o'clock on Monday.

To Mr. PittuntonE.—Could not say if the Sheffield and Bawtry
Branch Company were now shareholders in the London and
York, or that was a legal question ; but should think they were
not yet. The London and York line from Gainsborough
to Sheffield was shorter than that proposed by the Cam-
bridge Company. Could not say by how much ; but it was much
the best. It would be important that the manufacturing districts
should have a short and quick communication with Lincolnshire.
To Mr. BARKER—Is of opinion that the through North traffic

was secondary to that of the West Rid,ng. The London and York
Company considered a line between Doncaster and Sheffield and
abandoned it, as it would not pay. There was very good water
communication between those two places at present, and the dis-
tance was only about eleven miles.

Re-examined--Believes that id. per ton per mile fli the carriage
of coals would not pay unless it went a long continuous line, and
under the direction of one management. The distance from Lin-
coln to London by the London and York scheme was the same as
by the Cambridge.
Mr. Joseph Pease—Represented Durham in Parliament at one

time. Is an extensive coal owner in South Durham. Raises
32,000 tons of coal per diem. Exports coals to the four quarters
of the world. Sends coals by sea along the whole coast to Exeter,
and has also an extensive internal trade. Has given considerable
attention to the London and York scheme. It will, in his opinion,
effect a perfect revolution in the coal trade in its transit through the
country through which it is to pass. Three farthings per ten per
mile would be a remunerating rate of charge for long distances.

By Mr. SCROPE—I he Cambridge and Lincoln line would not
answer so well as the London and York, for this reason, that after
arriving at Cambridge the interest of the coal-owners became con-
flicting, whereas from York northwards they were identical.
By Mr. PEACOCK—The Cambridge and Lincoln project pre-
sented a direct line, with the exception of an ugly gap at Lincoln,
which he could not get over. Nor did he think that he would
get every facility for carrying his coals by that line, because he
found that the Company were carrying coal from London to Stort-
ford at 2d. per ton per mile, and he did not think it likely that they
would agree to carry even his extended traffic for lid. a mile.
Their terminus was at the wrong side of London for his business.
He believed they would prefer their local traffic at a dear rate, than
his greater through traffic at a low rate, because they would have
to construct works for the reception of his coal at their stations.
There would be great facility, he admitted, in running coal from
the Great North of England to the Direct Northern. The cheaper
the construction of a railway the lower the rates to the public could
be made.