The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-02 00:00:00

humblest officer, 'the constable, as he did in the case of
some friend of his who was now he (Sir J. Graham) be-'
I'eved an outlaw. He, again,-attacked the conduct ' of•
the public Prosecutor. At another time it was the wit-
14esses whom he assailed., Upon the whole the Hon.
Fentiontan had &most merbid sensibility—an instinctive
,aread, as it were, of political inquiries.—(Hear, and
Lighter from the Ministerial benches. And he seemed
to be greatly alarmed
that justice had at-last overtaken
rlitteal offenders., He_wished -him joy.—(Hear, • hear,.
ud a laugh.) But with respect to his own (Sir J. Gra-
liathatwes? conduct, he had the approval.of the majority of.
ef House.—(Laughter-from the Opposition -benches.)_
saw arranged opposite to him, note ithstauding some
reParation, a-strong muster of parties opposed to the
reparation,
They (the Ministers) had made no such
treparatien,_.but still he" felt confident that without.
s4ving made any such Preparation, in appealing to the:
-irse, the feeling, and the judgment of that House, the-
,ll. Gentleman would not succeed in his motion.
prJ. RUSSELL said that he certainly made no
hparations—(Cheers and laughter)—for this debate,
er did he intend to take any other part in it, than what
frfelt called upon to take in consequence of what fell
,L•tr the Right Hoe. Gentleman. The Right Honour-
th_e_ Gentleman said he believed it was the practice of
of who were concerned in the executiVe..departnaent
the country—.-at least so far as the Home Department
'l;4, eOneerned--to send persons, when the excited state
ttne country requiredobtain reports of what took
`see at publics meetings.• lie-would say, nt once, that if,
twee
in the Government, and if-the excited state of
the public-mind, either in England or Ireland, required,
hi if large meetings were held, and if it appeared. to:,
torn, readieg the reports of what passed at.tliese;
"tings, that anything of a seditious, or daiigereus-
to-74,1,_,neY, had been said, he would consider it it his duty'
he tarn correct reports of the proceedings.--,(Hear,,
tle9
He did not know that he would have done any-,
but what the Right Hon. Gentleman -had dane-7--
I=l37,.applyGurney for a short-hand Writer,,,
eO-"nein he could place confidence, and send him to take
eat reports of what had taken place, more
• Tally it the. langnsge •was: of. such a
_character
tit 9.!,ignt render' it necessary to institute legal proceed-
• ,lie•wonld say there would be no security for the.
ntry if reports of meetings were to appear in the
t4:PaPers, and allowed to be circulated by them, con-
ti,.tng perhaps language of a seditious and revolu-
*4'7 kind, and if the Government of the country
. .
th were not to have cognisance. of what passed at
Lice He was not now speaking of any particular
s;el;.lns, but of Possible meetings, at which language of
th a character might have been used. He thought
.eountry would be placed in great danger if the .
I,llUrster -did not do his duty in such a case.—(Hear.)
nfa,l'ng 'the view which the. Right Hon. Gentleman did
ii;"9Be meetings. he thought he would not be doing his
if he did not take steps to have correct reports of -
at had been done at those meetings.—(Hear, hear:)
w,;,thotight that a person-employed as a shorthand
1„"er, and paid at the rate at which those persons were
4-41,1 Y paid, was a person very different from those
kb! were •• formerly employed by . the Govern-
" ',„k" and ' who were called spies.—(Cries of
iae s
ersta F. hear.") But if he was a Persen employed se-
ep and 'went into the secret, councils of persons
piPnsed-ta..be .disaffected—if he watched their lan-
and-:...reported- to his employers what passed at
haft seekkineetings,. such a person. might go beyond
wiwtorrect, and might excite and promote that
hp Y'Cllsaffeetion and seditiOn..that very treason, which
ex I:_.`lts elfiloyeato.report, -But a person who goes to
fairlynnd•faitirfully the commands he has re-
in 4; t4late a repokrof 'what passes at public meet-
hehexeites •-no-ono-to-- the-commission of any crime
sou ear
merely states-what-he• sees; and.takes down what
coileat's• Thin,7li6;- could- any-person conceive—how
--anY person. lave a right' to complain: of it as a
to ~nee, when simply sent among them to
q, down "theit ' . The Right Honourable
e 9tleman - then-proceeded to the other part of his
i'4lduh, upon-which; certainly (continued his Lordship);
• Re 4 4111Ot—sia—willitiii. because ani not so able, to
f ....,..,. ..... .
_The Right Hon, Gentleman re-
.o to ...to the. coLukkokacion. which he required of the
re'PeXts......from the reporters of the
h. Papers. If -that, was • merely tasking those
t t6olcdtrwn reportrof-proceedings, to appear at the
do 'and:els:a:elidelice as to what they - had so taken
• :in-ortlerto-verify.what had -been taken by the •
'ernt4oiittepotters, I cannot see what matter of
be—A, e there could:,be,in making- that request.—(Hear,
he'• ' Whether it .might not injure the credit of a
iq Per if it shnuld be 'known that its reporters were
ti,""c.nahit ofnsaistingilie.Goaernment in its proseeu-
---that wase•matter for -the proprietors of news-
rrs-themSelves to Consider.; that was a matter of •
that'itlier polici and neWspaper morality, with which
th-e.,'evernment, has no-concern. • But I must say that
Ititi;:',4% of the Right Ilon. Gentleman's defence,
the, 'tegt4rd to..M.r. Charles Ross,- depends entirely
.on
stri;Et''t"n, racy with whicirthat individual observed his in-
rae-„e•iths. If he openly_ Made.hiS report to the Govern-
eco,"2'..de partment an •Ireland •or England, and did not
lireajltis character, then. the instructions given him
estint:Pr4er,..and:WereProPerly observed ; but if; on the
tisN.--:rY,Zir,,C, Ross •.eoneealed his character in any
• pra,',. ?„1' wormed himself into the councils and
br those engaged in the repeal agitation, then I
hilt:t•
.nruot de-tioo‘unbs tathw6hat the Right lion. Baronet says about the
re him, but I must say, some injury
-tiesabe„:l doue by those instructions not being duly car-
' tiler for:the purpose of stating what I On-
••-ale'W "L til L.lniv duty would have been had I been in the ser-
a po•
ken :e Crown, but the Right Hon.• Gentleman has
of some compact and -alliance between myielf
"r. kr. O'Connell. lam perfectly well aware of the
at which, during the existence of the late Govern-
o the constant reiteration of that eharge--(l.lear)--
w,--ek assertion that the patronage of the Government- •
toAPlaced at the disposal of Mr. O'Connell, produced
etit-'7,elinjury of, the Goterninent, though the charge was •
ex.i,`;`,:iY unfounded. Although the statement that there
bas some, compact between Mr. -O'Connell and myielf
foundation,
..yet I will never shrink if I see Mr.
tale,lol, or any one else—any other person of less
tas.v-h_" or moving in a humbler sphere of life—whatever
'l4A,"' the obloquy to which I may be exposed in conse-
tee a-ce of that 'declaration—,l will never shrinkrwhen I.
4ell-hPeFSon treated in the manner in which Mr. O'Con-
thilt- .as beri treated; from declaring in this House, that
110 itrson has not had-a fair trial.—(Loud cheers.).
I...ier,;_nt°(llty that the Right Hon: Gentleman can east
41, ea. '",,'"--410 obloquy that the party to which the Right. .
Gentleman belongs can cast upon me, for acting
tider'Bl33
ItViUnner,'shall deter me from doing what I con-
int,TY duty to the Constitution.—(Loud cheers.) The
th 'nu. Gentleman pridei himself upon the results. •
my bug trial; but since hos° prides himself, I will state,
iu that if the same offence had been committed:
Ni' country, supposing the. Attorney-General for
houldhad -puriued•a somewhat. similar course, we
charge from the ~i•nclgei—
let'of. cnliterslind a different
)—and a different verdict from. the jury.—
Verso:flied cheering.) That is ply opinien, and be the
'`"liriti',,who they may, I never will
,cease from endea-
'?Yinp,„{s to obtain for the people of,lreland .the full en-
-434 of all those rights and privileges, of the posses-
-134,110`q of
the people • Of- England, are • so. justly
44:bgtnraense cheering.)
ca!, 1,44 be .INICOI.IBE rose .to reply. In the first place
,(4Placcused.of "eharging the Government' with
atie°6,;"g spies and calling those persons spieS who
.L":4tud Uniourable agents. Ile had done no such',
'e- Go when a reporter at public meetings, acting for.
,Fev-r„l'vernment confessed himself as the agent for the
there was certainly nothing to justify the
'°ll of the word .spy to him.--(ll.ear, hear.) He
'`!‘tigh,, , that man a spy—far from it. Mr; Bond
*tt•'' was n spy.—(Cheers from both sides.) He .
4r4'11 att°e.vtheae meetings,° and openly acknowledgedG him-
-1 a„erly one of them as an agent from the overn-
t'ja,4o4-8' nn had himself manfully avowed, that, on all
h. whieh, he was received with that courtesy and respect
4 en, , every gentleman so employed, and so avowing
r, "tr, bploYinent, was entitled.—(Hear, hear.) In his
ttNeli`ltnLeotnbe's) Opinion, such courtesy would be ex-
mtt England, as-well as Ireland; to gen-
ng •
it
aggeded in 'those
soarduous
only through the
ieports could there. be any- - chance
ress of grievances.—(Hear, hear.) But he
lip' say that the position of Mr. Charles Ross was
,t,l erent to that Of Mr. Bond Hughes.--(Hear.)
Allie iii4bduet had been very different.-4 Hear, hear.)
;;Yeti Ron. Baronet -(Sir J. Graham) said he em-
the
Charles Ross; knowing at the time that he
Itigh7;tyat to. the Morning -at onicle.. He left it to
1,47ke 'On- Baronet to reconcile it with his-own con.
te be .
Set.to
7thtehus employing a man whose services be
rB, anti thOse'others differing so widely
4,," polities.-.--(Cheers.) •Of course with that
11'1 vc, eor honour and that regard for morality which,
c• )t. r distinguished the public conduct of the Right
l'lusa • •-iron
.et, before employing Mr. Charles Ross, he
„,ifrokicie teSs written to the proprietors of the Morning
(Cheer to ilavise ahem of his intention so to do._
„et oi.Aprud loud laughter.) But what was the con-
hie %I. 11, 6. • Ross ? Did •he obey the instructions
Lailarm
~ug.that the Right +lon. Baronet (Sir James
(VIA r'erted that evening he had given to him, no
4':
th,e done so—did Mr. Charles Ross, he asked,
qe4lnitructions ?-(Hear, hear.) No he did not.
tan ttskedl, Mr. Ross, in his examination at the trial,
Aort You you at the meetings you attended
t to be. an accredited. agent and -Wet. of
.the
•Ics are Government ?" His. words, in an-
Wke 4.‘„certainly' • not."— (Hear, hear, hear.).
lie,g.teq, with referenee to another occasion; avlse.7_,
"0:11: Yes ftlgg°d-Place on the platform. ilis!atisvicer:
I 013: got a very good place on the scitffold,
Obtain through the proprietor of the Dublin'
thel'se 11t t'' Why was this place given to hint.?
et4stne introPrietor of that paper thought he was in
the time _ bast as himself. When he went out a se-
Governinent reporter, he was empliayed in
qTrise"
.tof the Standard. He was asked whether he
limit 41
%,4llls
that he was employed •by the
tile /Ls reply was, " Certainly not." The fact
teed °I'L Persons In te secret were the Attorney-
S'ivtak, amid .
'll that the Right lion. Baronet. Now- he • eon-,
eh!, St,, ace d.
kgre tom tL or ing to the definition laid down by the-
ustia:(l to 13,7 Merober for the City of London, and,
Ijni th.o.wdesaseen._
.Gentlemen opposite; Mr. Ross came
.
nalh„, ered ription of a spy.—(No, no, from the
ellebes.) The Right Hon. 13aronet had
tt4 (fir%burhiiir ; trustwOrthy and honourable man. He
to t%io
,deaiitieter,l3)left it to the people and to the country
wi the 'r}t was honourable on the part of Mr. Ross
aa(i rne
h g the fact etin gsAs a Government agent, without
IP°, th never s • With regard to the Morning Herald,
Attl he h__,alu a word against Mr. Jackson, any..
'Liles 'B' sir. had impugned the conduct ef_Mr. Bond:
ttslin4tae Gl4t the to eitson's conduct reflected credit upon.
ea, of. his rna, Illation of his examination, he was so
IVag tkl• tilt unPloyers, that he exclaimed, "So help
he not aw the
that for the Crown sent for me, I
nsed are that the notes which I had made were to
Itat'llees the
/0,.„.ed that, the roseeution."—(Hear, hear.) Now it
()
Herald
s.„ gut . Baronet did apply tet the
uu the Standard for information, and