The Sun.
London, England, 1821-04-13 00:00:00

informed bUtof one per Son -in-his office who had.
lany con-eern in elections, -and -Upon inquiry he
found that. this ..person -was:a resolute radical
reformer. • But finding that he was.-a good .cle-rk,.
he (Mr. Ward). never cared about his princi-
ples. It was true Mere might exist -an influence
in a particular ..qUarter.over a 'particular body of
electors; but influence was Of that nature; that
it grew up uncontroUlably, and it was not a neces-
sary consequence that because it. existed, it•should
also be exercised. Would the Hon. Gent. ,bring
in a Bill- to disfranchise the tenants of the- Duke
of-Bedford because his amiable Character as a
'landlord secured to him unbounded • infltience
amongst those tenants; and yet the affirmative of
this was the principle upon which the Hen.
Gentleman founded his motion. The Hon. Gen-
tleman then referred to the Bill which wasintre-
ducedbl- Mr. Crewe to disfranchise the.. Officers
employed in the ordnance, and stated.. several
facts with respect to it, for the'plirpose of show-
Ina the reasons why it had been subsequently
abandoned. He then entered into a history of
the elections. of Queetiboriatigh, and stated, that
at several" periods the popular -Candidates were
able to defeat, the MinisterialOnessuch Was the
influence of Government therein. TIT lion.
Member, he said, would give the ordnance offi=
cers leave to-sit in that House, -but not to votee-at
klections. This was an extraordinary princi-
, pte.--of legislation, to give men who were too,
Corrupt to vote out of that House the liberty of.
,
'voting within it. He defied the Hon. Gentleman
. to show any instance of a man having been dis-
charged on account of his vote at elections-. In-:,
stances of a contrary nature might be adduced.'
Captain Dickenson, who was the friend of Mr.
Fox, and voted and canvassed for that celebrated
man, had an office in'the Ordnance department;
of 3or 4001.-a year. He would take it upon him-
to say, that the majority of the electors at Queen,;
borough were not employed In the Ordnance.—
Tbere were in all 292 electors-118 of these were
permanently employed in the Ordnance—seven.
more occasionally—and four more received pen-
sions for their services, making a total of 129.
These being deducted from the gross number
left 163, or a-majority of 34. electors not em-
ployed in the Ordnance. The Hon. Gentleman
then adverted to the cases mentioned by the Hon.
Gentleman, And stated several particulars with_
respect to them which either went to contradict
the statements of the lion. Gentleman, or were
intended to justify the conduct of the Bod.rd of
Ordnance. He then noticed the charge of the
Ifin. Member, that he (Mr. Ward) gave notice
that he would discharge any person in the Ord-
nance who gave him (Mr. Hume) information.
This charge arose out of the following circum-
stances :—The Hon. Member met him some tinie.
ago, and told him he had made a wrong return
of one of the powder ships, the Harmony, which
was .retutned- at 56 tons, whereas it was- really
but 36. It appeared that the Hon. Member had,-
'by the assistance of one of -the-officers, gone him-
self to measure the ship, according to his oivit,
account, and that it measured but -36 tons. ti ow
the ship was afterivardS regularly --measured, and
it appeared to be 56 tons, and a fraction more.
Ile then noticed. the accusation that some of the
officers had let their houses at Sheerness,-and
denied the truth of the statement. With respect
to charge of peculation against some of the
Officers, .a
commission of inquiry bad been issued.
to ascertain the truth of those charges, and, upon
examination,_ it was found that there was not a .
single -Charge founded in -truth.-- The Hon. Gen-
tleman's (Mr. Ifurne's)• motion rested on such
cases as he (Mr. Ward) hoped he had most sa-_.
i
ttsfactorily answered.- - • - ,

Mr. HUME rose to explain, and was going into
a re-statement of his argument, when .

The SPEAlttit .hegged he would confine tarn.,
self to an explanation merely. • .

Mr. HUME bowed and sat down.

Colonel DAvri and Mr. P. MOORE supported
the motion.
. •
Mr. TIERNEY said, he would
.trouble the House
very .shortly ; but a few words were called for,
lest ,his, vote might be misinterpreted. It was
out :.of the power of any one to come to a vote
unless an inquiry were in the first place instituted
to try the state of the facts, as disclosed at both
sides pf,the House.. He should be as unwilling
.as any man to disfranchise any part of his fellow
subjects—and he conceived nothing so advanta-
geous- t0...a1l parties as fairness in the representa-
..Lion. The upshot of. the question was, the re-
presentation of that Borough..was in favour of the
Government. Should then this Borough belong to
.the OrdnanCe? distinetio'n was taken between
influ.ence ap&l.intv•ference, and that was very fair ;
but ir~ the ..result, though interference ;was legal
acrd influence illegal, yet the condition of Queen-
borough was stich as that it now completely- be.-
joii&ed to the 'Ordnance. He. was not for restrict-
ing the influence °tithe Crown too rriuch, but he
must say aye or,no on the present occasion, and
he slloOd, certainly say aye, according to thedic-
fates of his-better judgment.. Officers of the EK•
vise and Customs were very wisely excluded"from
voting nt election's, because if Government dill-
gen4 applied, themselves to such an unworthy
object, they.
_must necessarily influence' too many.
boroughs.... 'fie would not disfranchise any man
unnecessarily.;„and if the Bill were,brought in,
as al present ,advised, he §hould merely restrict
its. operation to Queenborough. If other places
were. simi/arly situated,. he should of course
give a, similar Tote. Though Sheerness also
was. _much sdepcnding on. employment from
Goyernment, it would be too hard to
say, persons so, employed should not have the
right of voting, or that any two Ordnance can-
didates could walkinto this House without any
ecfectual op.pOsition. He. threw -entirciy out of
his recollection all that had been said as tomany
previous elections for those places; but if there
were then 1.55 Pl'acemen in the Ordnance, he
could skew the. numbers were now the same be-
, fke Any anitiog,/ could beestablished..fie could
not go fuohsr .into,, this question -without going
into, that ..6f Parliamentary Beform, a subject
which, of all. others, he was..at this moment
anxious to avoid, especially as it would so shortly
.come before the House. In bringing the Bill in,
he should say aye; but in the subsequent stages