The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-18 00:00:00

SHERIFFS-SCOTLAND.

Mr. HUME then moved for a return of the number of
days in the years 1842. 1843, and 1844, on which each
sheriff, in Scotland (excepting those ft r the counties of
Lanark and Mid-Lothian), officiated as judge in his
county court, and whether the nature of the business
was civil or criminal, or both, each clay. Similar separate
return for each of the counties respectively of Lanark
and Mid-Lothian.—Ordered.
THE MAYNOOTH GRANT.
Colonel SIBTHORP moved that there be laid before
this House a return of the numbers of petitions that
have been presented for and against the present pro-
posal on the part of her Majesty's Government, of an
increased grant out of the Consolidated Fund to the Col-
lege of Maynooth in Ireland, with the number of signatures
annexed thereto ; distinguishing, where possible, Ist,
those petitions which object in kik to all endowment of
any religious worship ; 2d, tlioserpetitions which object
to any grant of any kind to Maynooth ; 3d, those peti-
tions which object to the measure of her Majesty's Go-
vernment. The above return to be made up to Friday,
the 18th day of April.
Mr. THORNELY said that, as Chairman of the
Committee to whom petitions were referred, he begged
to inform the Hon. and Gallant Colonel that reports
were made twice a week to the House of the number of
petitions and the number of signatures attached to them.
On Tuesday last the Committee made its lastreport, and the
number of petitions up to that date presented against the
Maynooth grant were 671, to which there were attached
88,378 signatures. A further report would be made at
the proper period, but it would be perfectly impracticable
to comply with the Hon. and Gallant Member's motion
before that time arrived.
Colonel SIBTHORP—What can't be done can't be
done.—(Laughter.) The Hon. and Gallant Officer then
withdrew his motion.
CALICO PRINT WORKS BILL.

Lord ASHLEY, on the House going into Committee on
the Calico Print Works Bill, moved that it be an instruction
to the Committee that they have power to extend the pro-
visioms of the Bill to the restulation of the labour of
young persons and women, and to all print works, and
to the processes incidental to the ia'our in print works.
—Agreed to. . _

The Bill was then re-committed to Wednesday nexi
anti ordered to be prioted.
MAYNOOTH.

Petitions against the Bill were presented by M
Protherot.... Mr. Co,ke. anel Mr.
THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.

The question having b.en put by the Speaker,
Mr. C. BRUCE said that when the question was first
introduced to the House, he felt it his duty, in com-
pliance with the feelings of his constituents, to expre-s
his own convictions regarding the measure. He op.
posed this Bill on that occasion both on principle
and on the ground of expediency. He would ever sup-
port to the utmost of his power the Protestant religion.
The title to the British Crown rested upon it. The
rights of liberty rested upon it ; and under its protection
our national greatness—witness our prosperity and our
pre-eminence in learning, in the arts and sciences. in ma-
nufactures and commerce—had been created. Under it,
protection this country had attained its present glorious
position. Its roots were deeply imbedd,‘d in the firm soil
of English hearts, and in the consciences and convictions
of the Scottish people. Like the oak of England, the
storm passed over it and harmed it not. It might echo
through its branches, and scatter its green leaves to the
winds, but after the storm had passed over, it stood aloft
in the glory of its position and the magnificence of its
strength. Like the meteor flag of England, its banner
had braved for upwards of 300 years " the battle and
the breese"—because the favour of God was upon
,it. He who alone governed the destinies of nations,
10(.1 Nato was greater than all the world in arms.
.Rs fgared that Right Hon. Gentlemen had forgotten
the principles which were inculcated by their common
Alma Mater. The course of his Right Hon. Friend's

vision seemed to be dimmed. Time was when he (Mr.
Ernep) had learned from him that the principle the
tit,*snsent was now advocating was wholly visionary.
oyvtipiary of Maynooth would be a thorn in the
'sltietofi-tis.country, as long as it continued. Such had
been triMictum of the Right Hon. Gentleman and his
.argumentiand reasoniNg had convinced many ; but his
liklitlibn. Friend had now made the discovery that the
principle was only vicious because it had not been prac-
tically 'carried out, and they were now given to under-
stand that it only wanted the endowment of the Catholic
clergy of Ireland to effect that improvement.
Mr. GLADSTONE—No, no.
Mr. C. BRUCE was glad to hear that his Right Hon.
Friend did not hold the doctrine of venial and mortal
sin as propounded by the Church of Rome. The Roman
Catholics held that if they stole 9,0001. from a rich
man, that was a moderate sin ; but if they stole 30,0001,
that would be a mortal sin. But the Right Hon. Gentle-
man thought differently. With him 9,000/. was a mortal sin,
but 30,0001. was no sin at all. His Right Hon. Friend
ascribed the practical failure of the College of Maynooth
to their not carrying out the intentions of William Pitt,
to their not endowing the Catholic clergy of Ireland. In
giving up his former principles, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had fallen in with others which would not meet
with equal approbation from the people of England—
principles which, to use a homely and common
phrase, were " penny wise and pound foolish."
He deeply regretted that the Right Hon. Gentleman
should have thought it necessary, even for a single mo-
ment, to deprive the country of those services which from
his habits of industry, from his high intellectual attain-
ments, and from his honourable feelings, he was
so well qualified to render to it. He greatly regretted
the retirement of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and he
regretted it still more, because it had been the moans of
attracting the attention of the c-untry to his
change of opinion—he would not say to his change
of principles. He had raised up obstacles to his
ability to render for the future any ssrvice to his coun-
try. He could not imagine any speech more calculated,
he would not say to shske the confidence which the
public reposed in its public men, but to bew.l ler tt e
minds of the people as to the principles professed by
public men, than the speech of the llon. Gt ntleman on
this sudden change of opinion. He regretted it exceed-
ingly. He did not question the sincerity of the Rig h,
Hon. Gentleman's motives. No person was more en
titled to the respect of the country than the Right Him.
Gentleman, but he could not but feel that such would
be the effect of tne Right Honourable Gentleman's sudden
. . .... ....

change of opinion. The Right Hon. Gentleman Might.
depend upon it that if the mind of England could find
no exponent for its convictions among the leaders and
statesmen of that House, it was not so destitute of ability
as not ere long to find other leaders, or so benumbed

and paralysed as not to make every effort to endeavour to
find them out. He the more regretted the course the
Government adopted on the present occasion. bt caue,
on all other occasions, he had been its advocate and

supporter ; and he deeply regretted that anything
should have occurred to shake, not the position or the
Government—for he had no fears on that score—but thy

confidence and respect which they had hitherto so fully
enjoyed and deserved for the able manner in which they
had conducted the business of the country. The Right
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, in a speech
characterised by that ability which characterised
all the speeches of that Right Honourable Gentleman,
had divided his argument into two branches. Like a
Scotch sermon, he had divided it under two heads, each
of which contained various subdivisions. Under one of
these divisions he gave her Majesty's Government credit
for their superior party tactics in introducing this measure.
He had listened to the speech of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man opposite (Mr. Macaulay) with great attention,
and he felt compelled to say that the arguments of
the Right Honourable Gentleman, in his wonderful
oration, were rather fallacious, while the speech it-
self was full of specious and unconvincing de-
ductions. It was a tissue of ingenious sophistries,
in which he had drawn a picture that exhibited
a magnificent embodiment of enthusiastic fanaticism
and indomitable courage in one of whom he was speaking,
and therefore it would not be wonderful if the Right
Hon. Gentleman • had imbibed some of that religious
spirit which he appeared desirous of infusing into
the House. In Maynooth the students appeared
to be still inspired with the spirit of that character, the
great original of which the Right Hon. Geutleman had
spoken of in such glowing terms ; but he (Mr. C. Bruce)
would be far from saying that the House had adopted
any of the views or feelings of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
The Right Honourable Gentleman abused the Go-
vernment for their conduct in respect to the Free
Church •of Scotland ; but it was his opinion that the
Government had acted in accordance with the opinions of
nineteen-twentieths of those who were interested in
the matter, and they deserved the thanks of eve,ry
Scotchman for the course they had
lie did not agree with the Right lion. 1144r,b,,,,, lc.);
Perth iu his statements respecting the flout',ehie
tion of what was called the Free Church.. A condi-
tion
to the
boast of the six hundred new churches--',:hat was only
part of their tactics. They built a church in
every parish, and built it as near- as possible
to the parish Church, whether ti..e site was convenient
or not. With regard to the EP:.gument that the present
measure was necessary to tarry out the implied faith of
the Act of Union, and the spirit of the Emancipation
Act, be must say that he did pot think the en-

ris
dowment of the Catholi:Churcb ev part f eliteok
The grant to Maynooth by the Irish Parliatnenteut it
measure for the removal of civil disabilities ,eau
would be absurd to say that the present
then
o
could be looked upon in that light. ne.n pair
that the Irish Parliament were wr,"4
br
jog* that measiire ; hut their conduct otr,
much worse, and they would be more Pis rob
agreeing to the present measure, for it was °A Wee °f
graver and more serious character. He wont Fred tte
the expediency of the grant to Maynooththe ear
fruits borne by Maynooth. Looking ti „riao
diet pursued by the Roman Catholic
used
—to the language which had been roue of
Dr. M'Hale and others towards the ,sveningtoo
Wellington, he did not think the Duke
ofth".
could be accused of using exaggerated langllf%ukeoi
sued the language which had been used by
Ormond in speaking of the Roman
as reportteheo
bf
of his time. His words,
Walshe, himself a Roman Catholic, were had %
He declared. For these 30 years that
too!
do with the Roman Catholic Bishops, I never °.,eiorti
of them either to speak the truth or t,(l),bevse eret
his promises."—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh.") , roe 01191'
not his (Mr. C. Bruce's) words—(Cries of " moor
they were the words of Walshe, and dto
by saying that the Duke put his ha" oite
heart, as a man and a Christian, nnd er afte,ti
an earnestness which he had never seen before., it eon.
That state of things had lasted fifty years, alluthe per
not be denied that it had utterly failed ill bold
pose for which it was established. Thepallt
therefore, altogether withdrawn. He mi ritlenooth
Catholic iciDib
author, to show that the education at Mu cir-beee etwei
most imperfect and improper. Men who Pa" 11%
and other r tbo
cated there—Crolly, O'Beirne,
language of censure in this respect much etP
that used by Mr. Walshe. Did the Govern bear.), ,
'Two," to remedy this state of things ?—(11"r'
from it—they meant to increase the gran 400;1
el
any attempt to remedy the faults of 's
there. He knew Roman Catholic Mernbereloctrieel
tell him that they did not hold these well"
—they repudiated them, but if this were the etber';l
alt the
were they not expunged and rejected
(Hear, hear.) But the Right Hon. Baronet at Let V°
of the Government said he did not wish to detrtit OF;
the grace or favour of the grant. He had rare, aisle
rity to quote—that of a great statesman, who, in grel, s
ted the House in quite another manner. The grit,
StrOleroll
tee _bees
for Kent introduced a motion for withdrawing aitow-beS
Maynooth, as the motion itself was subsequenttY,
but this eminent statesman to whom he had allsnifl'ele, e„ I
words, to which he invited the attention of the .sieotrier
cularly the Hon. Member for Bath.
prevent to e
that such compact existed as ought to
ference of the Legislature, if the grant was Iser°erteolie't6lo
He did not agree in the opinion that the 51sta:10(000v
tion pursued at Maynooth ought to be a matter of 1400°,01
to the House. He had not heard such an obserf' hie, as'
by the Noble Lord, but he had heard it impel 7tseper
the Noble Lord did not deny it.—( Hear, bee?' tit°: 0 V
bounden duty of the House, if they louneeroiee,re
nicions doctrines were taught there—doctrines raid Ptis-
the welfare and safety of the empire. He for onehelbe th°6 it
concur in the principle of indifference, whie" oestilo
should be repudiated. It woUld be a very proper ,et obst
that case to submit to the House, whether the gre'dtbs`4l
discontinued or not ?" The statesman who expressiel Too)
nion was his Right Hon. Friend at the head ofittiee bei 00
—he who now introduced the present measure.--4 ;le sloe
He (Mr. C. Bruce) had not been induced to alter /601,104
which he had formed on hearing that speech ditte.esio Tteo
Friend. He maintained that the system of edge",ted, ifr
in Maynooth was not such as ought to be sulli°'agowtc,o,
not the place from which to expect loyal subject' or 0,0 0
tens. If any Hon. Gentleman doubted that, he. assetfer
aggereooooo
from works on the subject in support of his
of No, no," and laughter.) His Right, the 10
Friend had said that this grant would raoef
ratter of Maynooth.—( Hear. ) What class ;or "/„°Ofe,
(Mr. C. Bruce) would ask, were better educate-Las, s'isir
to move in the highest orders of life, than the Jeg-e-eolla,
that class of persons had been expelled from eveiesir,fer
Europe, even from the dominions of the Pope? taa, tbe7b bl
ence, however, was extended to Maynooth. Ais'et*ter
said that they could not mend the education of eotf
merely increasing their grant, giving the s",i-ere
ter clothing. or by giving them better ateateei'
House then would see that they would be doing 11- eir!'");"
grant if they did not give to the whole
acquiring a geod, sound, practical, and moral cities! tioo.o.e
eontrYttiosl,,e,ii
that no other weuld give sati 'faction to the
reopie tesest
how well or liberally they might endow the edcestbef
tutions.—( Hear, hear ) Therefore, he would sal
be disappointed if they expected that this grant toc'eseloels'
would give publi saeisfaction; on the contrail', ' stet oiej
have the effect of outraging the feelings of the eeast,,°
the country, while it would effect no good. 11,1 e ae't ev.
was that this grant would have no other eiree'ropo‘se"
given,nwhettingom a nfoithenr atho appetiteseuo use additional of
of
ri tohoworsheesosmet o.
_hwe(hHohmeasdri Casr
e'rlbre PI(
to`
a gresteepor tjt
esteem than the Right Hon. Gentleman the Of
Exchequer ; but he would ask him, if he appr'ye""c sec-,014
aibe 001
how could he consistently refuse to endow all fbere
might apply for that purpose ?—(Hear, hear.), t 041,
some sects who would not have any such grant ;
Heart rO
a great many others who would not refuse reor„°`
sd
That was not the place to discuss the truth or etotSao
gion, but as our ancestors had decided that POteete, tbe:001,
necessary for the well being of this country! it 'I gay o,ogr
not necessary to discuss it. He did not wok to be tb/
bottio Go
disrespectful of the Roman Catholic Clergy,
they taught what was erroneous. He wished that eaell,
went would leave them to teace their religion thewbo
act
spare the consciencies of serious and earnest ellen: toil'
be shocked at the blow which they were Om" 00?
their Church. fOesloj
Mr. W. GLADSTONE, rose in explanation of r
which had been misrepresented by the Hon. Afealebetbe
just sat down, by other Members who had ;pokes' '&0140
of the debate. They seemed to intimate that the 'ills tej
expressed their intention through him of pensionio..,g trYOO,
Catholic priesthood. What he (Mr. Glac'stone)
that he felt that the acceptance of this roe""ob
put out of the way any religioise
t
to the payment of the Roman Catholiertilder
And also a very great question would arise Wistheale
their payment. What he meant or said was 0' 'n'aes`to
tance now, but he wished to relieve the Geyer-01?
anything that he might have been supposed t°f ss
them, for he had no knowledge, no recollection ° tosstbef
connected with this subject which could enable 110
that they entertained any intention of that ki°4ool7ooo°
that he recollected or heard could justifY isittle; the
that they entertained the intention of pensionine tit
Catholic clergy.—(Cheers.)
length Sir GofEtOhißs GdErhatGe,RhEeYwasasiddestihroaut,i
onfotsrstai,thill3,7,lloord,./
came to a close, the grounds of the vote wine'
""5 e„0. sje
tention to give. He was desirous to do so, heeof wr
hisbe opspoopsedp
ortetors,thewhossterongoo rfierdmuenoonoestthranebeees of
which confidence he would n risk eel' tO,O
by the vote he found he would he rilo,esereseldr
give en so important a measure, ail°, eskie "21
welfare of Ireland was so deeply interested.
regret at the tone and spirit in which the Pe.°-eeteolra AV.
tleman (Mr. C. Bruce) spoke of the Roman "-vet:eV:l
He believed his speech would present a strong_e!oef tbsjuotl',
made by Honourable Members during the coursz he brata)
and he earnestly hoped that the example which itit'etee
raking up extracts from old records, would not be 0 lo t%
the debate. He had said that his consistency tee „t;
in the vote which he should give upon this occes.o-0 fer",
did not refer simply to votes which he had gi°,.ena-0001.,5-o‘js
casions when he supported the smaller grant 01 ."re,
If he thought that the present measure was anti e'bat
the vote from 9,0001. to 26,0001., he should fen. "0.011"
tion. of principle could by possiblity arise on the to tbeoelri,
ing which would justify his refusal to 355°4 degrees 0'
reading. It would then be a mere question of e Of;
hit t
forh e
D believedo r s e
ts r we
of principle, and that was entire' settled °tees
iththathisnoNt
a grand principle, was involved in t"l9 ;e reeb
namely, the recognition of the Roman Catb°-0 ell' '
Noble Friend Friisendrijactoioeiesii;refr;
t
t
( Hear. hear)—the recognition of that Church
great body of the inhabitants of Ireland were s° broscatd,
tached, and in the communion of which they "',el,7fect;s4te
the
othe recognition of that fact, and not only a "Jiee, recite
wise
principle that it was unjust, iniPtof °jet Orolf
z to disregard the opinions of the great bodY, hiaea (0 t,
and to maintain and support a Protestant Estabi? 0111)0010i
midst of a teeman Catholic country.—(Cheere., re to
ss P eft sot
occasions he maintained
that opinien and hew fipo4ol 0 y
repeat it now, that such a principle was in °' 0113" r
first principles of justice-( Hear, hear)—that :00;31
saistiten to the obvious dictates of sound polieY-"(eod e%
hey knew tit?), were opposed to the practice ei 00,try
every country in Europe. —(Cheers.)
Ireland baa,A
country in which that experiment failed, and b„,e
once to judge of the results whieh had taken 11%014 oe'
hear.) He would say the same, if it rat,: r'e Cis y
establish and maintain a Catholic Churche,'7,eoraq
esmutry—(Hear, hear)—or to maintain an reV-eselite
in a Presbyterian country—(Hear, hear)—and„„"aditeloi',
gree of shame and regret that Scotland bad here
against the proposed measure, when he rem 00 ‘l4l
tempts made by this country to impose episcoPaci,' spihe
and how the attempt was defeated by tbe stere-iseil,rtic(i/
northern fellow. countrymen. —( Chem s. ) 0
be told—and he had heard it durieg the del's.- f P'beifir
principle were admitted, that the great majoritY °,tebOof
were to determine the religion which should be ,e eato toil
any country, that it would lead to the establishilf;loalie
d
ooism or Mahometanism in many portions Of shelf
tended empire. He denied that inference. geed of
there was a proper, a distinct, and a broad line:l'l47o, le!
between those professing Christianity and other:m:o freelir
then darkness, and in the performance Of heath teelasfee)
would ask those who used this argument s'hY as ;JO
acted towards the Roman Catholics of Irelaoles"
acted towards the Hindoos and Mahomesians ?"assineetreoref
Had it ever been thought politic by the Goo- the I
.1
East to withdraw from the religions cherishecluhLsalletiffl
their eastern possessions, the revenues which "-see i°C010;
appropriated to their support ? What was theseentosn etseee
At the time of the reformation they found the Teirgeoo,,
Establishment in that county inpossession °"teen,,', erfr
tensive revenues. And what course did they (ele:Air resli
-
They acted most unfairly and most unjustly trercar
and cheers)—for they not only deprived them la o'oooo
Imes, but they transferred them to the suProdereetrod
clergy and another faith. The people still renl 000' )
to their ancient faith, and yet this by a strange 0016
called the Protestant reformation, and by an t,b;e4 te,Y,
hallucination they termed the Protestant Cl'll'o P.- re° if
of Ireland.--( Cheers.) He could not fail to g' efe r",6e
assent to the second reading of this measure: Gat'erklibe re/
what might be the intention of her Majesty osl
granting this Bill to the Irish people, he bid o,arliareoY
sure a step taken on the part of the Bri too ees'
would do themselves credit, and be fully 'oadier:o0141;401„f
predated by the people of Ireland—a, steep the`„ t or, b`;
s:e Irish nation that their Chur.cb should )3°oifecsv,:t
stamped with odium, and that ProtestanTpeed 011114
might deplore the errors which they 141-eV rierd
professed, would not -,et deny them be
and their .
'‘.lllP°rt. t*s.te did not ae"eesololos,
the Mee:sings of the Protestant Reformation,gematt tbe.os'
sanpathise with the petitioners who had app ay thsol;rir
upon that important question, but he rou't floc hYte
to advance the blessings of Protestantism ro."proa:10 40e ,
bition of ultra-exclusiveness ; the way `„„s ff:s;
tianity was not by attempting to coerce Pee'r,en Os,
Cession of it, a mode which was alike contrary - sVit,horVe
God and repugnant to their fellow-creatures• that tele.i
tb
ciples of several of the petitions presented t° sly agreed',
he presented one of them himself, he perf proerstelee,i
petitioners founded their opposition to the 131 that sllthel, 01,1
Right Hon. Barenet on te l nodt tr
genera pri
, 1, 04 ft
dowinents were contrary toh the Word o. - on
prepared to refuse to the Roman Catholics
all ettei)
would, on a similar principle, have refused t. W
denominations. But witeit be (Si)'