The Sun.
London, England, 1810-05-31 00:00:00

•
If so, 7-mths of this country's whole demand in
grain, so far from ,being to seek in foreign ports,
might be expeded from Ireland. tesides this in-
. .

proctuceb3,oool., but, in/dead otthit,. by some rills-
tnanagernent; it produced only 17,0001. He called
on the flight Hon. Gentleman. to turn his attention

vice of Ireland,, itt :that country.., The praaice of
,borrowing money in Engiandl)e -cOpdetrmed as de,
wuetive, because the burthens whibh ihe people of
Ireland would bear in consequence; would be to pay
English creditor. He thought the terms proposed
for the last Loan were fair; and ,Oovernment should-
have acceded to them.

crease, he had the satisfatition to *notice a corre....
sponding increase of bacon and pork. He would
(low proceed to the consideration of the new taxes,
but first begged to 'put the House on its guard
against any expeelation of increase in the revenue
to provide for the interest of the loan, after the dis-
appointment they had suffered last year. The
'light Honourable Gentl&nan had then calculated
that the prohibition of the use
.of raw .malt in the
distilleries, would produce 248,0001. Re had ex
pressed his surprise at this extravagant calculation;
and the event proved he was• right, for the measure
:)r..duced only 50,0001. It was somewhat similar
With the spirit duties which were to roduce

to this subject., :The only, other circumstance _of
this kind 116 would now notice was the -great ba-
lancat remaining due from dead and aignissed col-
leaors.. The amount was - immense ; and, from
knowing that many of the sums might easily be re-
covered, and applied to the public use, before new
taxes were devised, lie could only impute their long
outstanding to the remissness of the agents and soli-
citors employed. - In mentioning these balances, he
begged to be understood as meaning nothing invidi-
ous t 6 any individual. In the list he found
The Earl of Clancarty, for Galway - L. tr,ooo
Mr.. Shaw of Cork, with Mr. Luke White
for his security • -

Mr. FosTin stated, that the Loan was offered in.
Irelandwith a view to raise as Much there as possible:
Ttie policy.had always been so to raise it, but it had
been found that the terms on which the sum might
have been raised in Ireland was greater than the
Government thought themselves justified in closing
with. • It •was judged expedient .therefore,tO accept
rates offered the. Contra6tor's in England. He recom-
mended to the Hon. Gentleman to understand the
finances of Ireland better before he condemned the
measures of Government in respect to
,Loans.
, Sir JOHN- NEWPORT concurred with the night
Hon. Gentleman, that the difficulties under which
Ireland laboured, was an insuperable bar to raising
the •Loin there.
After some further observations between Mr..
Foster and Sir J. Newport, the resolutions were put
and agreed to. The House resumed, and the re--
port was ordered to be received to-morrow.

740.

~ The latehut 111 r. who. died in raee,
'D2,0001. but did not raise one shilling. It was from•o• children, and leaving great 'per-
;these failures that they were now compelled to pro- • spnal property, Lord Lisle his securayand '
(ride for two years instead of one. The Right Hon. executor - - -
.0.500
Gentleman took the revenue at 5000,0001.: he was Mr. Connor, Cork - 179,000 - Mr. Connor, he understood, had been brought
~- at a loss_to know on what data he proceeded, as at ' back from Scotland, (after carrying off 70,0001. be-
nO time previous to the- last year,- had it ever . sides the above), and imprisoned; but since set ,at
amounted to so• much ; and lasi year, as .he had ': large. Why was this ) Was it that he was as noted
already stated, the new nkeasures entirely failed. rt for his loyalty as
.his two other brothers were in an-
could not be founded on an expetted increase of the • other line ? '
distilleries, as whatever was gained under that de- i Mr. Moore, of Marlborough
scriptiore would be counterabalanced by a loss in Mr. Augustine Fitzgerald, with Lord Lon. .
1 . guevii le for his security -
the Customs, on the importation of foreign spirits, e- 8,500
' Mr. Harrison, of Ennis - . 1,100
Thc first of the new taxes enunierateo was the ad-
dition on the postage of letters.
Many of these he was sure might be very steadily- In 1805 :rue !
Right Hon. Gentleman had tried - this, in spite of .
, gote and though there were many others which in Mr. TtERNEY rising, pursuant to notice, stated,
all his endeavours to spew him, that, in finance,
a list heolad seen of the Sacker's were termed that making every waver deduaion from the fund
desperate,ih contradistind!op to those he pronounced of the Droits of Admiralty, it appeared there re-
it was' not always that two and two
mado four. It
was true, the revenue of the Post -Office had since
to'be sperate, but from which nothing but hopes mained a surplus of 342,0001. There might be
:
had yet arisen, he believed -the Solicitors-took no - more, but if that were the case it .made his argu-.
increased; but, be contended, it was-not in cause- .
ouenee of the addition then laid on (on the con- steps . but to keep the suits alive, and take the ex- meat the stronger: The question when last before
teary, it would have been more, had one-half been
pences out of the public purse. Mr. Welsh, Of - them was carried but by a.majority of 17 in a full
- i
Nang, was another ; but the Crown had a lien on
,House—at least, in a House containing above 200
imposed), but frion other general' causes. The I
an estate he . wished to Sell. • And he (Sir J. N.) members. The case before them was this :—The
Right Hon. Gentleman was - mistaken in thinking,
that, because a tax produced in this country, it trusted they would not enable the titles to be made Duke of Breeswick (of-whom he had never. spoken,.
would also be productive in Ireland. A rich 'coon-
out, till the balance was discharged. He again and could Dever speak but in terms' of the highest
try might support that which, in a poorer country,
! guarded himself against meaning any thing invidi- respect) had been recommended to that House by
Would cause a decrease : and this, he believed, ! ous. He had only done- his duty in pointing out , his Maiesty fora pro Vision suitable to his rank. No
Would be the fate of this tax; which, by diminish- : what might be recovered for the public use, before ' Gentleman had thought proper to object to making
Mg the correspondence in Ireland, would lower the
direc,l taxes were resorte.! to. . Also to direct their such'a provision for him; but while such a fund exa
revenue from what it now was, rather than aug-
! attention to the enormous exigence of management istedehe was at a loss to conceive why the Public
ment it. With respeLk to the 2d iteme the addi- in the
.public Money, and to a vigilant- check upon 1 should be burdened -with a pension of ;70001. per
tional duty on tea, he was equally suprised at that. 1 Collectors of public money, to prevent embezzle- annum. for him. That which urged him to 'make
•
Why would the Right Hon. Gentleman cruse this meta, or making away with the money in their his motion on the subject, was an-idea that as there
Period to lay another impost on the main pillar of the
hands. • He was aware the Right Hots. Gentleman was a fund of 342,000). The Duke of
500,0001.
Bruns-
Customs
? It had decreased 60,0001. in
had to struggle with the delays of the law ;. but...there wick's annuity ought 'rather to be charged upon that
.
last year, and yet this was the time chosen to ad.
were excuses-made by the Solicitors- and agents, than upon the Public. •He could not figure to
hoorder to render
-him-
another
burden to a falling du which ought not to beadmitted. The growing debt, self in what manner it could be better applied by
it more productive, As for theiaisins and currants, ty,
!, -in proportion to the revenue; filled him with apprea his Majesty than in making a suitable provision for
they were not worth adverting to. It was_well
hension ; and, he feared, if not timely looked to, it one so near' to him. He -would say no. More then on
.
woeld come to an alarming height hereafter, and the sobjea, as he could .not eonteive.what poasible
known that those articles only would be produaive
in taxation which were the consumption of the i
be more difficult to overcome. The qubta• charged objection could be made to his motion. He con-.
-
People. Now, it was acknowledged and known,- l-
on Irelaud, by the Union, was 'too much. It knight eluded by moving—" That an humble Address be
that these articles formed no material part of
,
thebe said, the bargain was made, and they must abide presented to his Majesty, to represent to ham, that in
I
consumption' of the Irish Nation. They were not
by. it. This was true; but a better bargain might consequence of his gracious message recommending
au fond of puddings, &c. as the people- of this coup-' have been made; and, if it was a bad one, the loss, it to them to take .into their consideration the best
try ; and even those who could atlbrd it, seldom in" the end, would fall on those who imposed it......... means of ,enabling him to make a suitable provision
had.them used in dishes for their tables. With re The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded with a warm for his Serene Highness the Duke of Brunswick, his,
-.
sped to the additional duty ott receipt stamps, he recominendatioti of residence, in the country, to the faithful Commons di.l most cheerfully grant him a
.
thought it the most injudicious tax that could be de- • Gentry of Ireland, as the surest meansof promoting . sion of 70001. per, annum, payable out. of
.and
Viseth Already this tax was so much eluded, that it her prosperity and happiness. ' , , chargeable on the Consolidated Fund ; but finding
of what it ought to pro-
did not produce 1-10111
Mr. SHAW, with reference toftlie case alluded t(), : by accounts laid. before the House since the gran:,
'duce. Why then animent, and give another in-
'
by the Right Hon. Baronet, of Mr. Shaw, the Col- , tlia large sums as Droits of Admiralty appeared ,to
ducement for defrauding the revenue ? The rise on
- ,•
learn., the Hon. Geniletnan aiated, that on the day have been received by tile Crown, of which a surplus
the newspaper advertisement
• duty, too, in his opi-
.
of his death, the balance of his accounts with Go- of no less than 342;85.81. remains; they could not
hion, would defeat its. own object ; for even at the : vex*
ninent was transmitted to him (Mr. S.), but hut express surprise and.-regret that his Majesy's
some surcharges having been, made, the widow and . Moirstera Should•have advised him to apply to them
present duty, 2 -3ds of. the business of the country
wished to settle the account ; family
, was done by the circulation of hand bills ; a prac•e• '
arrangements are made, the balance is ready to be
.pese was at his Mje,ty's disposal ; and also to re-
.-;.• tice which would, in consequence of this new ina- .
..;• paid in, whatever it m!y be. - pteseht to hint that' the heavy and unprecedented
~i Position, be the mote gone into. He -was so con- ,
vi Mr. W. Poea stated that there were some diffi., - taxation under which the nation laboured, while
nced of this, that he would pledge bitnseli-, that,
With the new duty the revenue would be less than culties in settling the accounts of Mr. Shaw, he had prosecuting the Nvir against France, anxious as they
.
~ sit was at i hi, moment. He now came to the wine directed the necessary inquiries to be made, and ex- were to comply.'with the wishes of his Majesty, and
duty ; and he really would have thought that the peed
•-
ped that the accounts woad shortly be made zealous, es they were. to support-the splendour of
:
e-xperience of 1804-5 would have taught the Right up. The Right Himourable Gentleman bore testi- his Majesty's throne, Made it a duty they owed to
•
lon. Gentleman to abstain from that tax. At that
mony to the statement of the Honourable Member those whose representatives they were, net to in-
period he had been, write difficulty, dissuaded from
as, to the wishes of Mr. Shaw'sfatuily to pay up the crease the burdens Of the.people unnecessarily.' Un-
laYing on a duty to the extent he intended, on the , balance. 7
disclaimed
der these circumstances, they hoped his Majesty,
statement of a very intelligent merchant, a Mem'ser
Sir J. I\ ewrotor di any idea of imputing beieg informed by his faithful Commons that means
-
of the House who had declared that he wouldunworthy motives to thelate Mr. Shaw.. might be found in the,llrgits of the Admiralty suff-i-
-- !
thereby deteriorate the revenue. To a certain de. I Mr. Fosratt replied to the observations of the cient for the perpose, would be graciously pleased to
- -
gree he had'yielded to* these- representations, and , Honourable Baronet, with respect to orders that such a sum might be paid into to the deficits in -
. for his Serene
laid on only one-half of what lie-first proposed. The : the collection of the taxes. As to Mr. Trench'S
the Consolidated Fund as. would purchase an an-
The- consequence was an astonishing decrease of,
.deficit, that was sued for, and the Jury
,struck off nutty equal to the provision made
revenue; and it was-three years before it amounted-1 40001. Means were taking to remove fiaitioua Highness.
to
the point:from whence it set out.; an•l_again it charges, and to insure, in tuture, !the- paying into The CHANCELLOR Of. the EXCHEQUER thought
diminished. _ln 1800 the duty on Port amounted the Treasury weekly the receipts
.of taxes; to as- his Majesty should rather be directly solicited for
to 277,4701. and in 1810 to 196,7001• being a de- . certain the exatl amount of the, collection of • the any sum out of the Droits of the Admiralty, to
crease of 80,0Q01. In French wines there was an -Receivers, -for which purpose a Bill had . been - apply to the public service that might he required,-
increase of about 30001.; and also, in Spanish wine, brought in last. Session. In consemience of this than that he should be addressed in such terms of
of 50,0001. On the whole, the decrease' was proceeding on the part of Government, the pnhl:c
- reproach. It the HouSe would have the goodness
so
• 0.,0001. With this before his eyes, •how could the perfect rest assured that perfe security would be had to look in what manner the fund had been made lige
of during the whole war, he thought in no one in-
411g lit Hon. Gentleman calculate on his new duty' for the- due observance of the provisions of the Bill.
.
Producing 100,0001. or rather more that 1-4th of The Right Hon. Gentleman quoted from a paper :stance would they be disposed to disapprove of the
wad in which it had been applied. Looking back
the present produce? With respect to the storage of returns in the Customs, to shew that a suns of '
duty, it was not worth attention, and lie would only 11,0001. only Was due out of the aggregate of the- '
to tnat vote ot • which the Right Hon. Gentleman
say, unless better regulations - Were adopted in that colledion. With respeCt to O'Connor's deficit,- ',' had spoken, he thought it had been come to under
-
matter, it would ' only turn out a burden upon there was reason to believe great part of his debt impressions very different to thoSe which would
• I"ade, without benefiting the revenue. :The last was: fictitious. As :to Mr. Shaw, the surcharges flow influence their condudt. 'Then they had but
of these taxes was that' of 50 per cent. addition were in a great measure vexatious. The Right Hone a number of loose sums before them, some of
, which were stated to have been given to various
- \‘'indows. This might produce what was expected, Gentleman then defended the year oferiterion (with
memhera of the Royal Family, and. the whole
for„ two or three years ; but it would -be a respect to the receipts of the revenue) which he had
represented to be such that the House ought
,to
Ileavy burden on persons living In towns, and. taken, and contended,: that from the year 1800 the '
a .„ , ,contemplate it as an objed of jealousy ; and, as
-,nian snopiseepers," with houses having more than L revenue continued to rise progressively, until it at-
:seve,windows. Hdesirous that all' rivedthe •
n e vas
interfering
1,40 n the occasion. That feeling, he , such slier the House would ad a . becoming part
la..' 'on might be productive;' but it surely could duty on Malt last year produced 400,0001. when in
,
110 t be the -wish of Parliament to lessen the •-ia-1.- ! there was- not a still at woik, of course that had no doubt, mixed itself a great deal iu the
'
lons that the lower orders enjoyed.. What he'had , sum was produced by the breweries alone. The House at that time ; but now, when they could see .
said on these points were mere suggestions. He 'amount of the • sutras itsformer yearsby ,the •
did not mean to urge any captious ,oliteCtions to the 7 working of the distilleries and breweries was 'have no reason to doubt of the manner in which it
taxes proposed by the, Rialit Honoutahle Gentle- at 370,0001. therefore, when he stated that the could be applied, lie could have no reason for looking,
Ilian, but to put .the aelual: state of -the case 'before , duty on malt had increased, he had stated no back to the former vote with any feeling of ap-
tile. House, and not allow them to be-buoyed' up more than truth. As to the Post Office, the reve- ; prehension. If the ' 'Muse should be of Opinion
'With false expe6ations. The Right Hun. Gent., 11112 in that! resika was productive. In the wine that` any part of the Admiralty Droits should
in addition to this,. had stated, as one of his conso- duties the increase was great, and although the : ' - be applied to the service of- the public, he
latiot' hOped. they would address his Majesty in a
,„ is, that 'there was no floating debt in Ireland.- title of Porr, as stated by the Right Hon. Bart. was .
manner less - indecorous. than that proprdsed.—
u& was true—nor would' the circumstances of .
,deficient in produa, he could account for that byi
There had .been four commissions, through the wars
`d country admit of such a thilw Having stated stating, that at the Custom-house the merchants in :
thisthrob.;in' which we had been
.engaged; viz, the. Dutch,
much, he. begged pardon for- a few moments- some instances had entered POrt as Spanish wines.
ion i Spanish, Prussian, and Danish, on which the total
ger, while he pointed out what might have; been Having made these few observations in reply, he as-
, • landamount of .the proceeds were 7,344,6001. The
what might he made available for public pur- sured the Right Hon. Bart. that if he had any taxes,
- P°ses, before new burdens were sumspaid to various claimants, to
laid on the people. in lieu of chose proposed, he (Mr. F.) would adopt. ' • , the ReceiVer-
' The re newel • :General of the Droits, including law charges, etc.
newel of the-Bank Charter might have been them, if convenient to the public service. i -
granted I amounted to .3,320,9901. In the years 1796 and
at a rate which would have Produced a Str JOHN NEWPORT thought Mr. Trench's ba- ,
fund ; - . 1797,uhere had been applied to the public service
or the service of the cotadry; but, instead of - lance should have appeared in• the public accounts.
• - • 900,0001. and in January and Febreary -1,06, then
~.that, it was given away aimest gratis, for the loan ' As to Mr. O'Connor, it- was an imputation on the'
cif one sum of 1,000,0001. •
.w,,s appropriated to a .sonilar
~million, at as high a rate of interest as it . Government to allow the errors in the accounts of
Would have been lent for'
individuals, and for a Colledors to remain. , . purpose; thus it appeared, that in those years do
Striall ' .ii
aiteratiun in the *
manneetnent.--A sum
. • • , : less than 1 900 0001 had been applied t• o the public
greater than • t ' . - Mr. A. Baorao considered the Irish Loan as a ' '• ' ' ' L'
"
service, without any address from Parliament on
a.
~ . . . a resent mielo be received out of most enormous burthen to this country, and sng- - • .
it uttes of new train im ao •ed from LI •
It\ 71,e e . ,ie this country. gesred to the Right Hon. Gentlemen in ramie to had
the reil7C.l. In the course of the last year there
ti 10 per tent, custo ' ditty
ei was calculated to borrow the subs *bleb he •l' '1 I '
might want or tle see- i•
been paid to Admiral Garrbier, as his share of
• s le proceeds arising from the sale of . Danish prizes,
iii-

21,000

- On the-motion of Mr. Bankes, the report of the
Committee on the Public Expenditure was postpon-
ed till to-morrow.

ADMIRALTY DROITS.