The Sun.
London, England, 1821-06-22 00:00:00

AFFAIRS. OF SICILY .

Lord W. BENTzNcK feeling his own incapacity
to do justice to the motion he had given notice
of relative to Sicily, would willingly have de-
ferred the task to another, had he not felt that
the active share he had taken in the transactions
which ultimately led to what had placed Sicily
in a worse condition than when Great Britain
first interfered with it, imposed the task upon
him as a point of honour. He had only there-
fore to request that the cause might not suffer
from the weakness of its advocate.—(Hear, hear!)
—He begged to assure the House, on his honour,
that he undertook the motion without the sug-
gestion of any individual whatever. He had no
desire to bring on a useless discussion on matters
with which he had been connected, and which
therefore his vanity might induce him to think
were of more interest or importance than they
really were. Since he was in Sicily he had had
no communication with an;, of the 'natives, and
his present motion arose solely out of a deep in-
terest he felt for the concerns of that people*
with whom he had been so much connected for-
merly, He -wished, if possible, to obtain for the
Sicilians that degree of liherty and'those privi-
leges which they formerly possessed, and of
which this country had in a great measure gua-
ranteed the continuance. If the antiquity of a
claim. gave any value to it, he was the advocate
of rights 3 as valuable as those of the holy Al,

'lance ; for the, rights of the Sicilians Stood.
upon the antiquity -of,„ centuries. When he left
Sicily, the Noble Miiigness opposite had desired
him to requiies twO -Condition's from the Govern-
ment with 57es-Pect to the Sicilians. The. first
was, that no inhabitant of
.Sicily should be ex-
;posed to perSeCution
.for'- his political opinions :
and the second .was, tha4l4--Sjciliantssliould not
be placed in a worse condifiOn with regaM to
their political rights than before we had posses-
sion of the island. From all he had heard he
was -convinced that those conditions had been
grossly violated ; and it was' actually incumbent
on this country to interfere. to cause the obser-
vance of the stipulated conditions. He had no
means of judging of the course taken by this
couritry, but by the instructions sent out by the
Noble Lord opposite to Sir William A'Court.
Those instructions, he admitted, were drawn
in precisely the same spirit as he should him-
self have drawn them, and he was, there-
fore, the more surprised, that the acts of the
Sicilian Government had been ,so contrary to
them. It would be in the memory of those
who heard him, that in 1805, the Royal Fa-
mily of Naples were driven from that capital to
seek refuge in Sicily, and for ten years following
remained there. During the whole of that time
the island was in our possession ; and besides a
fleet, we had there 25,000' troops. During that
time also, we furnished them with subsidies to
the amount, at- different times, of 1,500,0001. All
that we obtained in return .for this' was nothing
but distrust, hatred, and hostility. For six years
the affairs of the nation were administered by the
Neapolitans, but from the Moment the Sicilian
Ministry was- appointed, all things took a change
for the better. The native army, which till then
had' been useless, became available for all the
purposes of active service. The old Constitution
of Sicily had existed for centuries, and had been
respected by every Monarch in Europe. They
had a Parliament, though an imperfect one, but
they enjoyed many privileges. :The Parliament
met every four years, had the power of imposing
taxes, and appointed a Commission to superintend
the collection of the revenue and its apprOpria-
tion. When the new Sicilian Ministry came in they
wished. to provide a remedy for the abuses which.
hail crept in during
,the years 1811 and 1812.
Three, bodies here made in the State, and the
Noblemen of country had the glorious dis-
tinction of being unanimous in the surrender of
their feudal rights.—(Hear, )sear-!)—It was
agreed that they should adopt, as far as-they
were able, the British Constitution ; and accord-
ingly they formed the three Estates with Lords
and Commons. This Constitution lasted till the
year 1815. In 1814 the King resumed the
reigns of Government, and took the oath to ol.)
serve the Constitution. : The -Noble Lord then
.went into the. particulars of the instructions, hav-
ing been sent out by the Noble Lord (London-
thorry),in September, 1.816, to Sir W. A'Court, so
that it appeared there: was ,some mistake in the
original statement made by him as to 1815. The
Noble- Lord next sheaved, that the Sicilianpeo-
ple had of old cherished an .antipathy to a com-
bined form of Government with, the Neapolitans,
which feeling was--evinced on the breaking-out of
the Revolution at Naples, when the inhabitants
of Palermo struggled-for their independence, and
were attacked by the-Neapolitan armament, with
whom, after a.strong resistance, they. capitulated,
and were allowed to refer the question of the
in-
dependence of Sicily to the Parliament ; but the
capitulation was violated.---He referred to the
justification of himself published by General
Church, which, he stated, had completely proved
the innocence of that officer, to an indiscretion of.
whom that insurrection-in Palermo had.been in-if--
properly attributed. He then referred to the
financial arrangements in Sicily, in contravention.
of . the constitutional practice, as the King had,
by his Decree of 1816, fixed the permanent ex.--
pences of the State at a maximum of 1,847,687
ounces, according to the •Budget
.of 1813 ; but
the fact was, that in 1815. and 1816 another
Budget had been voted in the. Parliament of only
1,400,0001., which, he contended, ought to have
been the one chosen by the King, if he did esta-
blish a permanent expenditure ; but as that ex-
penditure was no longer to be watched over by the
Deputation of the Parliament, as constitutionally
provided, there was no check, and the actual
maximum could never be known. There was; in
fact, no security, as the King was a despot, and
his acts without legal rontroul. But the King
had taken merit to himself for having consented
to the abolition of the feudal system ; that is, for
having consented to the abolition of the-last re-
straint on the Crown; for it was to be recollected
that the Barons •had voluntarily given up their.
feudal privileges, but it was by way of .compact
with the King that he should surrender part. of
his prerogative ; but this condition was not per-
formed, and ,he asked if the rights of the Barons
ought not to be held as sacred and inviolate as
those of el)e Crown ? Ile -would not trouble the
House with: any further remark than-'to repeat
that his object was to endeavour to regain 'for
Sicily the constitutional . rights and privileges.
which belonged to her of ancient right, and of
-which she had been so unjustly deprived.—
(Cheers.)—He concluded by moving, " That an
Humble Address be presented to his Majesty,
humbly representing that they had the great
mortification to learn, that attempts have been
made to reduce the privileges of the Sicilian na-
tion in such a degree as might expose the British
Government to the reproach of having contributed
to a change of system in Sicily, which impaired
the freedom and happineSs of the inhabitants, and,
humbly requesting that his Majesty would be
pleased to interfere, to prevent the evils conse-
quent on such a change, in such a manner as
the honour and faith of the nation absolutely
required.".
• The Marquess of LONDONDERRY admitted that
no person could possibly be possessed of greater
information, from local advantages and-his lauda--
ble researches into this very important subject,
now for the first time developed to the House,
than the Noble Lord who so ably had depicted
.the transactions of the last five or six years in the
Island of Sicily. He could not, however, help
regretting, for many important reasons,. that the
attention of the House should only now have been

directed by the Noble Lord to the subject of
these complaints. It was now rather too late for
the Noble Lord to expect that he could, with
any hope of success, direct the attention of Par-
Jiament to the imputed, arbitrary conduct of the
-Neapolitan Government towards its own subjects.
'With the tenor of thesinstructions,themselves, as
issued by the;British C.Thvernment tavur •n* er
•tneer, liie-A101;ie Lord' ad Ai tted-hesstastssati
and had professed he could scarcely wish to have
improyed them in the letter or spirit. The trans-
actions to which the Noble Lord had alluded,
had occurred above five years ago, and whatever
might have been the conduct of the Court of
Naples then, if it were intended to question their
policy Or justice, the topic should have been dis-
cussed (if ever it ought to be discussed at all 'in
that nouse,) at a period when the recollection of
the facts were fresh, and might have fairly been
made a subject of observation and examination.
lie might, he thought, confidently appeal to an
Hon. and Learned Member, (Sir J. Mackintosh,)
who was, he had little doubt, as devoted a Pa-
triot as any Scotsman could be, or Sicilian either
—(a laugh)—Whether, with all his zeal for the
independence of his nation and its Parliament,
he would be disposed at the present day to ran-
sack the history of the time when the Union of
Scotland with his country was effected, for the pur-
pose of promoting again a separation of the two
countries. Nor would it be likely that in that
House there would be found more than one
Irish Gentleman, and one there was—(A laugh)—
who would for a similar purpose take up the
latent embers of the popular feeling, which dis-
played itself during the negociation of the Irish
Union, or probe afresh those wounds which the
mellowing influence of time had very generally
healed.—(Hear, hear.)--There were two consi-
derations of great importance in the discussion on
this question—the first would depend on what
were our Declarations whilst there ; the next, on
-what we ought to consider to be our duty upon
leaving the island. It was a subject not lightly
to be regarded, that up to the moment the Bri-
tish -Government issued its instructions, all Eu-
rope had been convulsed by the ambition of
France, which aimed at nothing less than the•
subjugation of every State. One object of those
instructions so issued was to concilate the esteem
and confidence of the people of Europe who had
yet any national independence to maintain, -or
might be likely to be assailed by the French Em-
pire. Under such circumstances, our instructions
were -a source of hope and consolation. He,
however, would observe, that although we had
entered into a guarantee with the King, our Ally,
to protect his dominions, we had entered into
none with the Sicilian people themselves. 'Portu-
gal and Naples were the only instances of na-
tional guarantee on record. The occupation of
Sicily, it was fully stipulated, should not lead to
any views of territorial aggrandisement on the
part of this country. When our army arrived
the people were contemplating the framing of a
Constitutiou for themselves, and the only ground
Of our interference was to enable the then unset-
tled form of its Government to work practically, so
as not to interrupt the measures concerted for the
defence of the island from the attempts of the
common enemy. The 'Constitution which the
Sicilians had adopted, he however considered al.
together, inadequate to the purposes of good go-
vernment; and although the Noble Lord had
considered that period the ;olden age of Sicily,
every man there, from the Prince to the peasant,
was of opinion, that the Government, as
sit was
constructed, never could stand, or was good for
any practical purpose. Previous to our leaving
the island, the instructions alluded to were issued
through Sir Wm. A'Court, with a view to rouse
them to a sense of their situation, and the neces-
sity of providing a stable form of government for
their own protection. After, however, the two
Houses of Parliament had worked for above
twelve months at the task of modelling the Con-
stitution, they gave it up as altogether hopeless,
and acquainted the King they had relinquished
the undertaking. Was then England to he
bound to provide or make Constitutions for every
other- country with whom we happened to have
the slightest political connexion ? Ile thought it
highly creditable to this country that she was
easily excited to sympathise with the-Situation of
other countries in their political embarrassments,
but he had always been of opinion, that any such
interference on our part under such circumstances
was more likely to defeat than promote any such
desirable object. Indeed it might be an admo-
nition to the House as to the folly of any attempt
of ours to dictate a Constitution to the Sicilian
people, that the Noble Lord had confessed that,
though at the head of 25,000 men, he could not
Make his voice be beard or respected in the
palace of the King of. Sicily. From the nature
of our close connexion with that island politi-
cally, and even commercially, he had thought
when he, with others of his Majesty's Govern-
ment, framed the instructions alluded to, that it
was almost impossible that this country, could
easily disentangle itself altogether from its' con-
flexion with the Government and, people of Sicily.
To his utter astonishment all complaint was omit-
ted down to the present ,period. With respect
to the state branch of the question, the Noble
Lord had, he thought, expressed'himself rather
too strongly, and too much in the language of
complete decision as to the interests of Sicily,
however long he resided in that island. The
Noble Lord would give him leave to say, that
the situation he filled there was rather of a mili-
tary than a political nature,,ani though from cir-
cumstances he was sometimes called upon to act
in the latter capacity, he could pot pay homage-
to the opinions of the Noble Lord, when he now
constituted himself supreme judge of the politi-
cal interests of that country. The Noble Lord
having had no communication on the subject with
any of the people of Sicily, having had no com-
mission to bring this complaint before Parliament,
it was rather hard now, after a silence of six
years, during the greater part of which the same
causes of complaint existed, to bring forward a
subject involving the policy of a Foreign Govern-
ment, and a criminal charge against the Govern-
ment of this country ; particularly when the system
complained of had ceased entirely. What was the
nature of the charge ? That the British Government

-did not interfere to procure-a Constitution for Si-
cily at least as independent as that she anciently
possessed, and to prevent her union with Naples.
This Government at no period, before or after
,1
the occupation of Okily, bound itself to inter-
fere in all the chains Olt might take place
there. It was, very e fel- the Noble Lord
lkotiress up-the,ancie
-n stiNtionlSl/4Sicily, or
'Cos iori, Ad in en r- ottern those
gorgeous habits N/ith which he arrayed it in the
course of his speech. But if they looked to the
dispatches sent home in ,3812, and the state of
the Government of that Island, as it existed up
to 1813, it would not appear that there was any
reason why it should stand better in the estima-
tion of-that.Houseor the people themselves, than
any thing that followed. There was a Parlia-
ment lie would admit, but then it seldom -or never
met, except•when summoned' for the purpoSe of
voting taxes, before granting which it had the
privilege of making conditions.—(Hear ! from
the Opposition.)—But to dress up the. Constitu-
tion of Sicily, antecedent to 1813., as an indepen-
dent one, as a system of Government calculated
to secure the liberties-and- prosperity of the peo-
ple, was only a rhetorical flourish, which any
lion. Member was perfectly at liberty to intro-
duce in the course of debate. Ile must protest
against the notion that the 13ritiSli 'Government
was pledged to perpetual interference—that they
were to thrust themselves forward to oppose or
modify-every change that might be attempted.---
Nothing more was ever contemplated than some
special case for interferente ; but they never
could for a moment assume, or suppose they/
had a right to assume, a general jurisdiction
over the affairs of Sicily. With respect to the
course taken -by this Government, it appeared to
him the most wise and politic she could have
pursued Under all the circumstances. When Sir
W. A'Court, a gentleman of considerable talent,
and possessing in an eminent degree that know-
ledge necessary for' the situation he filled, had
communicated the change that was in contempla- '
tion, Government, in answer, laid down the ge-
neral principles which they thought most advis-
able to be acted. on, and which, he must observe,-
were indorsed by the Noble Lord hiniself, Sir
A'Court stated those principles to his Molest,'
the King of Naples, in the presence 'of his Ca-
binet, explaining them as be proceeded, not in-5
public_or authorised capacity, or in the language
of dictation, but as a private individual s; and be
must say, that in the conduct of his. Majesty
there appeared nothing which could lead to 5 '
suspicion that he meant any thing offeniive or in'
jurious to the interests of Sicily. It was never
the intention of the British Government:to pro"
pose a Constitution formally and authoritativell
to the King of -Naples, or to interfere in the de-
tails of a subject which required more local
knowledge than they'could be supposed to pos'
sess. His Majesty the-King of Naples used every
means that were left him of effecting the change
in'the most conciliatory manner, and -it was 11°4
until 'no other course had been left hith that he
took the-power into his own hands. The Noble
Lord having never till now, 'after a lapse of sl'
years, made any, complaint, none - having- -bee it
ever heard from the people of Sicily, excel,' -
indeed - from one individual ; the system-col i
plained of no longer existing, the -Tense must
see the ridicule it would bring on -the Govern'
menu to call on
-his Majesty to interfere under such
circumstances.' lie did not mean tci advocate-0'
system, but the-question:to he considered- wa!"
-whether it deteriorated-the state of the Sic.ift
lions so obviiisly- as to present to .-the'Oriti::,
Government an adequate necessity for that i.nfe
ference, which under pectiliareircumstancesl.°Y,
had bound themselves to. Whatever cl'ai
might be attempted, he never conceived that tile},
Were to exercise their judgment on all the ate;
fails, if 'the leading principle were such 051 b,
Sicilians ought in fairness to be satisfied vet to
kle begged - to call th-eattention of the trouse 4
the arc Mint sent hcinte by Sir -W. AlCourt,i;
what was passing,- to shew- that the British 0 e
,
vernment bad no reason to apprehend that t'.l,
interests of the Sicilians were likely to be c°,0,0
prorniSed.--[Here the Noble Marquess read se
extracts from- a communication of Sir W. A'(-%`_:?,.11
stating, that the nominations to offices of State
• iuo
were soon to take place, and that they' Inc the,
all those who took part.with the British, that „t
King of Naples was not to raise taxes n.
tho
the permission of Parliament, that from the .`49
racter of those -who were to be raised to otli`o,l
all ,danger of re-action would be removed,:cii-
that the King was actuated by the best
tions.]—That Sir William A'Court did not wall
interpret the views of the King of Naples. tied
respect to Sicily, and that he had ad/not-0014
the Government in mildness, there- was st to,
ground of presumption from the very Circ.,,flt
stance: of no- charge having- been 'ever brolu-eof
againstthe Government for five years. He baa •,Ar'
entered into a defence of the line of conduct Pdot
sued by his Majesty's--Government. 1,00 ~00
the transaction itself, be must say, that be
see nothing on the faCePT the change 103-';
-prove injurious to the people of Sicily 11,,iliefc
interests of the Island. in whatever vieli
03re°
might be considered. -The mere' circuntsl.l, '
a union created no alarm in his mind. rj of
now dead to alarms raised upon the grog° con'
political anion between tyro- neiahbourit'gOP .t
it
tries ; experience rather led hiM to
,hope A g
might be conducive to the. interests
to the other part of the question which the 0.404
Lord seemed to dwell upon With, much in'
the-degradation of Sicily from the rank e_ her to,
dependent country, so far from. degrading 0.01.(1
the rank of a mere province, the uni°",,,,,,3 not
rather appear to-elevate her. Scotland '
degraded by ber union-with Englant."- for, 141 !'
rather a gainer by thet transact,i.oifir.
, belOnge`
the compact, every thing in Scot," could ac'
to Scotland, and as much more '
(i laugh')
quire in the other parts of the ernP'r--.. • 311
—Neither. did he see any rause
- Parliament, for it. r
-to complain about their . woe
e rie-eting 0
the Sicilians
preserved, and with a chance blew
than it did before,
vottna inontit
before except for the purpose of
for t
wag a gaiiner,.
,in every other respect Sicily
• In leavioc 1,1
,feudal., rights were abolished.
the •1111
island therefore, the °ply question
for it never was aasem
_4;

I

I

• Government had to ask themselves was, whether
they left it in such a state.' that.it might, at a fu-
ture time, rise to their view, a terrifying spectre
to warn them of their. misconduct ;- or whether
- they did not fulfil, as far as could be done, con-
sistently with Sound principle, all they had en-
gaged to perform.? He thought they were right
in saving the point of honour, though, generally
speaking, it was not so Safe a principle as that of
no.n-interference, except for self protection. No-
thing b'lt an evident course of oppressive conduct
cquldhaVenot justified 'their interference. It Was
enol to say, that a single individual had
)
1 ~,i ,njustly or barsfilY treated ; and there be-
Jag no complaint except from au individual (Cap-
tain
,Itorneo,). the natural conclusion was, that
there was no grOUnd ror'it. He had therefore
n° reproach to make to his own conscience for
the line of policy ',adopted. He thought there
Arts no ground in former transactions• for the in-
terference of the. Noble Lord, and even if there
were it was now too late. .
Sir J. MACKINTOSH thought that no question
called for further explanation than one connected
'with the conduct and good faith of this Govern-
Inent with the Government of Foreign States.—
,
-rt Was with this feeling thathe rose to support
•themolion of the Noble Lord. Ile would argue
..the question on the 'grounds- which the Noble
•Marquis had stated were these on which it ought
to be' argued, not taking a very minute or micros-
'eopic View of the subject, but supporting the
motion because it apPeared, to him that this Go-,
Yernt-nent had deviated from the principles laid,
down in its dispatches and-public papers, and had
- .neglected thOse duties to the Sicilians which it
had solemnly bound itself to perform. He ex-
Pressed surprise at hearing the union of these
three kingdoms compared with the annexation of
s'icily to Naples, and -sheaved that the cases were
....4ifierent. He maintained that the Noble Lord
was justified in-bringing forward his motion now
and not before, as it was- but recently that he
had become
,acquainted with the pledge given
by this country to maintain the ancient condition
9f..: Sicily. The instructions produced had not
been sent out to Sir William A.'Court till eighteen
:months after the change had taken place in the
.GoernMent: Ile could..wish to see the original
• instructions. sent out to Sir W. A'CoUrt, as he
,thought it ahnost impoSsible that
,instructions
should not 'have been sent out at an earlier pe-
riod.; and he thought it 'probable that a Curious
discordance would be found betiveen the tone
held during the war in 1814,... and that assumed
witen the Allies had triumphed:iolSl6. The
-Noble Lnrd ,had. applied hitnelf. to shew,'first,
that individuals had not suffered'from their con-
, nection with 'England ; and,
,Secondly, that the
.Sicilianshad not complained of -our not interfer-
ing in their behalf. With respect to the first, it
has
,said that hot, a single, complaint had been
°lade but that of. Captain Romeo. Could 'this
sil'nee arise from the universal satisfaction
.r• had been inspired by the -conduct
°I. the Government ? No !—the universality
of silence proved to him the existence
diStrust, fear, and despair—a dread of
ke resentment of their own Government, if they
made a complaint, and a fear that nothing that
would do could console them under the
I"3eetttiOn to which, acting such a part, they
wuald themselves. That'Sort of assurance
. expose
'll.. which the Noble Lord relied, we might ob-
.from Algiers, Morocco, or Siberia. When
.
saw themselves abandoned 'by the
'ngltsh and handed over -to their former tnas:
-t rs, it was clear to him that they had no hope of
`r`-41ef from British interference, and to 'this he
-4rit)ed. the absence of complaint. The Noble
n'Tarquis had called his Noble • Friend, " -the
• 'l‘lftienit of the SiCilian." He. hoped that title
t r.54-kl.remain to him. When such a title had
4)."0 bestowed as a mark-of contumely, it was
tut to.be supposed that the complaints of the
wouldeasily find.their way to the ear of
the Noble Marquis. He
.would argue the ques-
' 1011 on
,three groUnds—first, he would inquire
• Whether_ there was any evidence. before the House,
'.4)r before Eur Ope, to prove that it was. imprac-
`•-ti(ble to reform the Constitution established. un-
tlerthe auspices of the Noble Lord. Secondly,
• .isf,clay there was, whether the ancient Constitution of
which was to have been restored; had not
')"en destroyed; and, thirdly, whether the change
Il°W made by the King..of Naples, Which had re-
• bPened the question, was not a departure for the
I'°rse from the system of Government established
inn i 816: in which this country had acquiesced
-""o on all these. points he would contend that the
'notion. ,of the Noble Lord was entitled to the
suPport of the House. In the first,place,.he was
surprised that the Noble Marquis should treat
the reverential attempt which had
b"."ll.lnatle to imitate the forms of the British Con-
sttution, by a people new to legislation.. He
lo*fintl:to know where the AddresS to the King
t,'„icity to devise a new form of GovernMent was
si,?,Q, found. He had 'read. the proceedings Of the
all-dILL'n Parliament but. ound nothing of the kind,
• b e understood that many -of the leading Mem-
-I.ers Sere of opinion that no such measure was
• w'eeessary, and .were satisfied that the 'Parliament
!Is Capable of reforming itself. The Marquess
4cello -and Sir William A'Court did indeed
' cf.eitk..of the difficulty of effecting any salutary
auslange in the' old. Constitution. But how did
"eY Speak of it ? It was. merely alluded, to in
parenthesis, whereas it ought to have been so
clear that nothing could be more satisfactory to
man's conscience and understanding. Never
."as a resolution effected with so little delibera
-
tion,, or. with such an entire absence of necessity
this execution of the Parliament of Sicily-. He-
. believed the only difficulty of effecting a re-
%reflation m-as.the objection of the Parliament to
• Submit to-an -absolute. monarchy. tie believed
• that they- possessed . some sense of
_duty towards
their constituents, and some love towards their.
Country ; and possessing these, they thought that
an introduction of an absolute monarchy_ was' not
the roost likely way to restore the natural vigour
of a limited Government, and a Representa-:'
ConStitution. The Ministers of the King'
of Naples thought. otherwise. They were
anxious to . bring into operation the political • , Enaxirns upon which their Own -despotic Go-.
, Ternm.ent.Mas founded ;_and. it was very natu-
. • ~•

ral that they should feel. such an anxiety.
Puring all -our negotiations with the Court of
Naples) the treaty which she had entered into
with the other tyrannical powers of Ettrope had
been:kept.entirely out of, our sight. It had been
concealed by her, even from her closest Ally,
and not even the Noble Lord; or Sir Wm. A'Court,
were aware of its existence. Bound; as she was,
by that nefarious article, to establish a despotism
throughout all the states of the King of Naples, it
was easy to account for her eagerness to rivet the
chains of the Sicilians. When he said a despo,
tism, he did not mean to say that it was a Go-
vernment of tyranny-and oppression, but he used
the word in the sense which was attached to it
by our forefathers, who applied it to any absolute
monarchy. Were they then to take the evidence
of this Government, determined and bound as it
thus was to destroy the very Constitution which it
denied the possibility of reforming, and after it
had descended so far as to deceive its own
most intimate Ally ?; The Noble Lord said that
they found many conspiracies on foot, and. that
that was a reason for dismembering the Ancient
Constitution. He wished to tread lightly upon
the ashes. of . the dead, and to . speak with the
strictest delicacy where the female name and
fame were implicated. But he would call upon
the Noble Lord to say, whether it was in the Par-
liament of the Two Sicilies, or whether it was
not in the Capital, in the Court, in the family of
the King of Naples ? The people of Sicily clung
fast in their veneration and love to this . country,
because it was. the ancient seat, the classic ground
of liberty. He looked to it as the model upon
which all nations were to reform their institutions
and to mark out their independence. They look-
ed to England, not because she was England, but
because she was a free country. They never
expected that an English Minister would declare
the practical abolition of their Parliament as
a trifling matter, and which required a micros-
copic eye to determine whether or not there
was.a violation of constitutional principle. The
English Government had bound itself not only.to
restore the ancient Government of Sicily, but at
the same time to protect= the growth of new in-
stitutions and -of improved principles of legisla-
tion. The Noble Lord said he could draw no
comparison between the two Governments. The
fact was, that the present was as simple as any
Government could be=-it-was, as he had before
stated, what our forefathers called a simple des,
potism. With-respect to the revenue, the old
Parliament never granted the supplies for more
than four years, which compelled the King to
hold a Parliament quartennially. By the Treaty
of 181.6 however, this bulwark of the people's
rights was taken away. It was said, indeed, that
no legislative measures -could now be effected
without the 'consent of Parliament. The consent
of what.Parliarnent ? Why,of that which never
.was to assemble again but at the pleasure of the
King. To the King was given the right, if-he
chose to exert it, of altering the taxes, by taking
off some, 'and imposing -others in- their stead.'
Supposing, by the exercise- of this power, the
takes of the people were to be raised to treble
their original amount. What was to detect such
practices, if- the people were left without a Par-
liament to controul the supply granted to the
King ? Where was the -budget ? And where
was their Hon. Member for Aberdeen to detect.
its fallacies, and to point out and curb its extra.
vagance ? It was said that the. Sicilians were not
lit.for political liberty, and that personal liberty
and protection to their lives and property, were-
all that they were formed to enjoy. He won.
dared that they-were not quite to be reduced to
an Asiatic sublimity .of liberty. But he would
challenge any of these sublime philosophers to
show in what period of history, in what region
of the world civil liberty was ever long in exist-
ence without political liberty to support it ?
In England, if they looked .three .centuries
backwards, and saw the King, Lords, and Com-
mons of, this country divided against each other,
how much. pretext would there have been for

their saying also that the people of England were
not fit to enjoy political liberty ? The cases were
the same, and no distinction could be drawn be-
twixt them. This Government in Sicily was
tried, but for two years, and then it was decided
that an absolute monarchy alone could govern
the people. If the English ConstitutiOn had been

tried in a. similar manner.at many periods during
its infancy, it must have met the same fate. He
called upon that House, which had arisen from
small beginnings to be the greatest Representative
Assembly that the world. ever saw,: to examine
into the circumstances which Could justify the
abolition of a free Government after a trial of
two years. This Government had been abolish-
ed by the union of the two Kingdoms, because it
gave the King the power of raising his revenue
without the consent of Parliament, which in con-
sequence was never likely to be called together.
'The only tie which we held in this country upon
the for the assembling of Parliament,
was the necessity of having the Supplies
voted. This must be done yearly, and. Par-
liament was accordingly compelled to assemble
once during every year. Under the ohl Go-
vernment of Sicily the Supplies were granted
(as he had before said) quartennially,'and this
formed a guarantee for corresponding meetings of
that Parliament. But although Sir W. A'Court
had formally guarded against abrogating the
Parliament altogether,. yet by taking away this
check, they had in fact abrogated the rights and
liberties of the people.. The. Councils which
were now established did not go to transfer the
rights of the old Parliament so winch as to destroy
them altogether. These Councils were
,not neces
sarily composed of the Nobles of Sicily, nor of
Members of learned and respectable professions.
The most obscure proprietor in the islands was
eligible, and they were most likely to be com-
posed of such persons ; they being the descrip-
tion of men chosen as the obsequious slaves of a
despotic' Government. The time was now ar-
rived when this despotism mast be established.
'They heard of troubles in Sicily, -and 10,000.
troops were said to be on the point to. debark
upon the shores of that .unhappy country, to
.bring with them the scourge of tyranny which
accompanied the footsteps of- their employ-
ers. all. over the Continent. These mercena,

ries fete to torte an upstart despotism not
three weeks old upon the miserable people
who had been promised the protection of this
country. There was a passage in the Decree of
this new GoVernment of Naples, which, even in
private, had excited in his mind the deepest in-
dignation. When he saw this despotism of three
weeks growth, threatening to- send amongst a
people longing to be free, 10,000 mercenary
troops, and telling that people, according to the
language of the decree, that they had as much
independence as was good for them, although de-
based from the enjoyment of the rights of Euro-
pean citizens, almost to thescondition of Asiatic
slaves, he could not but be filled with wonder,
indignation, and abhorrence.----(Hear, hear !)
The House then divided--L-
For the Motion
Against it
Majority against it -
LAYBACH CIRCULAR.

- - - - -
- 69
- -34

On our return to the gallery, we found Mr. S,
WORTLEY on his legs, addressing the House rela-
tive to the Circular lately issued by the Allied
Sovereigns at Laybach. The Hon. Member pro-
ceeded to say, that their conduct was such as to
make England an outlaw at the least. He had
the utmost confidence in the conduct and general
councils of his Noble Friend, and his late letter
shewed evidently that that confidence was not
misplaced. A Circular Dispatch appeared in the
Papers, from Austria, Russia, and Prussia, to
their Ambassadors at Foreigri Courts, stating.
their having met to oppose the recent revolutions,
and reprobating the disposition to change which
had appeared in certain quarters ; and this Cir-
cular expressed the views of these Sovereigns as
to all future changes in different _Governments.—
The Sovereigns' Dispatch went on to say what
measure of reform they would allow, and added,
that they would only tolerate that which pro-
ceeded from those who were " answerable to
God" for the use of power. But all this came to
the point, that no reform, except that .which
originated with the Sovereigns themselves, was
to be henceforth permitted. If such, how-
ever, were the law of England, would the
English House of Commons be now able
to act as became them ? On the contrary,
every one knew that most of our liberties were
wrested from our Sovereigns by the sword.—
(ifear.)—lf those Allied Sovereigns had confined
their principles to their own states, perhaps he
would not have interfered with this question ;
but when the principle was so wide, he could not
avoid saying'it never ought and never would ex-
tend to England. With respect to the change in
Naples, although the majority there did not effect
it, still he objected to the interference of Austria,
because the principle on which he acted was, that
no people should interfere in effecting any. change
contrary to the will of the Sovereign. With re-
spect also to the Revolution in Piedmont, it was'
effected by a very few and not by the peOple ;
and the fault with the Congress of Laybach was,
that that they did not say, you are asserting your
liberties against the good and general will of the
state, and therefore we must put you down.—
They said, however, in place of this, you are op-
posing your Sovereign, and therefore you must
be put down. But if those Monarchs were
allowed such a power, could England escape
Could Spain escape ? No ; and with respect
to Spain, if it were not for the interference of
France, the Allied Armies would have over-run

her territory ; and whatever of liberty the Spa-
niards now had would be altogether denied
to thetn.—(llear, hear, hear !)—He said no-
thing harshly of these Monarchs, with respect
to their personal capacity ; but if they erect-
ed themselves into a court against the liber-
ties of Europe, they must expect to hear English-
men speak their minds.—(Cries of hear !)—lf
in the crusade they undertook, they invaded the
general principles of liberty, this House, as the
guardian of the world's liberty, was bound to re-
sist such dangerous doctrines.—(Hear, hear !)
All he now wished to do was, to move for the
production of the authentic documents of those

declarations to which he had alluded, in order at
a future period, if necessary, to found some fur-
ther resolution upon them., If, however, his
Noble Friend stated any good reasons for op-
posing their production, he should certainly not
feel it his duty to press for the declaration con-
tained in those papers. Ills duty obliged him to
make the few observations he uttered, and he
should now leave it to the House.

The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said, as be
agreed with the general opinions of his Hon.
Friend, it would not be necessary for him to go
much at length into those reasons on which he
should oppose the documents now called for.
Unless for a. practical purpose, such papers
were not usually produced ; but as that did

not seem his Honourable Friend's object, he
was further called upon not to produce the
declaration to which he had alluded. If the
proceedings at Troppau were not called for by
either House of Parliament, there was nothing in
the present case to contravene that system of
policy, which was then adopted. The adminis-

iration of foreign affairs should he most properly
vested in the Executive, where no conduct
appeared on their part justifying- the infrac-
tion of those rights and liberties which they were
called on to protect. When other papers were
called for, the motion was met with a direct ne-
gative ; and in the present case there was stronger
ground for pursuing the game line of conduct.
At Troppau the document issued, imputed doc-
trines which it was said the English Government
was disposed to have acceded to ; but which, as
became them, they directly resisted. The Councils
of this country were infringed by that document,
and England was expressly mentioned by name,
and linked and bound by some practicable pro-
position to which England was made a party. ,The
law of nations was there laid down according to their
views of those laws; but the English Government,
finding that to be an unsound exposition of general
principles, acted as became them. If the State
Papers-of Europe were to be placed one against
the other, the different Crowned Heads .would
be little better than a debating society, heighten-
ing by acrimony the difficulties of the different
States. If then the'documents issued at Troppau
were not-produced, there was nothing in the Cir-

cular of Laybach to call torA its being prevented tarn the exceptions into the rule, but the Sovea
to the House. - The Government of England had reigns had swept'away all rule,, for.theßussiatt
already offered their protest,to some of the doe- Ambassador avowed that Naples- had btien at.
trines issued at Troppan, and
_it was 'lbw the tacked merely Ibecause it, Was within reach,' The
less necessary to, take any step as to the Decla- document in piesticnofCountNesselrodesaid.that
ration at Laybach. ' He felt bound to declare•no Government was determined "to mark rebellion
one State was bound or had any right to interfere withthe seal ofits reprobation." ACcordingtri,Rus.
with another, because all changes were not ef. sian Diplomacy, any resistance to the most bloody
fected, apparently to them, for the good of those despotism would be brought under the desbripa
who made the change. No State should, or could tion of rebellion ; but the Allies had in effeet pre.
so interfere. Such interference would render all surned to comlemn the glorious conduct of our au.
foreign States the judges of neighbour States, and cestors, and had in prospect condemned the best
set them up as a tribunal inconsistent_ with aim. of men to come.—Hear!—They 'had declared
mon sense and the law of nations.L—(Cries of they would condemn every change in a Govern
Hear !)—AlthOugh he considered the Illustrious meet except that ividch should proceed from the
Sovereigns ill advised in making those declara- free will of the Sovereign. The House would ob.
tions, he acquitted thetri of all ill intention, and serve that this document did not refer to the Car-,
gave them credit for not acting on any sordid honari, or any other Society, as it was,put, forth
view, or with any other than an honest desire net long before the , breaking out of-the Neapolitan
to be threatened in the contiguity of their own Revolution. However, he (Sir James) was
States.—(Hear!)—Extreme principles generally content with the reprobation which had been be-,
pranced evils; but, thank God,_England was not stowed by our own Government upon the con
yet a country which applauded all revolutions, in duct'of the Allied Sovereigns ; and there was
Whatever way-they might be effected. We hadhad no part of the letter "Written by the Noble Mar-
one revolution, but it was guided
.by parliamen-, quis which he (Sir James) admired -so much as
tary wisdom ; and except under necessity, we that. which pointed out the danger of attempting
never had a recurrence to violence or arms. It to reduce their principles into practice. 16-fact,
:was the pride of their ancestors in 168ti.to ,shew the three great Powers.were in a state 'of perrna-
they had done nothing, excentunder the neces-
.neat conspiracy against the Liberties of Nations.
sitsof the case. He . trusted they never would —(ltear, .hear!)—No security could be obtained
1...
become the panegyrists,of revolutions, merely be- from that natural jealousy with which one nation-
cause some fortunate result .might have followed had been accustomed to look at the aggrandize-
them. Under a-false apprehension, he regretted ment, of the other. The accursed system of par-
to find there were, some in that House. who'adVO. tition had destroyed this se-curity ; 'and the' case
cated counter changes to the existing: order of of Poland shewed that no country suffered the
things, though not in this country. An organ-, pillage of .another without being rewarded:by_ a
ised system of revolution could 'not be justified, share of the plunder. If the personal character
neither could an union of Sovereigns, :to pat of the Sovereigns was offered as a pledge '.l.al' se-
down all change: But if one revolution was the, curity, it invited an inquiry into that character.
organic means of another, he was not surprised if How stood the question in this respect ? In 1807
the. dangers were opposed at an earlier period Russia and Sweden were the Allies of' Great
than might be absolutely necessary. Upon the Britain. In the course of the same. year 'Russia
part of this Country, he stood on the Principle thought fit to' become the Ally of 'France.„' and
avowed by his Majesty on the 19th of January— did so at the peace of, Tilsit. Sweden eause.d
that was a rock of principle in itself, and in put- to-follow the example of this perfidy and was
ting it forward to the world, he thought his Ma- robbed of Finland ; and subsequently Dein:nark
jesty's Governmenthad acted as became them.-- was robbed of Nor Way, in order that SWeden
(Hear, hear !)—He should say little of the con- might receive an equivalent for Finland.
.If was
duct adopted towards Italy; but it was clear to for modern times- to shew the robbery' a. one
the understanding of every man, that revolutions country to make good -the robbery of another.--:---
were set on foot by cold-blooded parties, whose If these were the acts of the Sovereign of Russia,
contagious example extended even to Turkey, he was treacherous, and the sincerity of hiSs-cha-
which was now bleeding at every pore. In his ratter was worthless; and, if they were the- acts
conscience he believed that these calamities of his Ministers, they destroyed the security of
were owing:- to the spread of secret societies, that very 'personal character. Extreme pritici-
whose object was the destruction of all' the esta- pies were sure to provoke extravagant extremes
blished Governments of Europe. ..His Hon. of an opposite character. The conspiracy of these
Friend would, he was sure, be the last man to Sovereigns against the liberties of Europe wbuld,
press for.any thing derogatory to the interest of he feared, give rise to
,a systematic combination
this country, and
.he was also happy -to say that against Kings. England, be trusted, would shew
the letter of his Majesty, so far from giVing offence the fallacy, of *.both ektrernes, 'and by- a firm
to the Allied Powers, had operated in a contrary avowal of its principles, would prove the justice
Manner. The duty of this Government was to and wisdom of its Constitution.—(Hear, hear!)
preserve peace and a good understanding with ... Mr. C". lIUTCHINSON said, he should have re-
others ; and if ever any difference should here- mained silent on the present discussion, 110 the
after take place he trusted it would only be on Noble Marquis merely refused the protlnction
some practicalpoint,which he should hope would of the document in question on a princiPl
be unnecessary.' In the declaration of, January, of State policy. But although the Noble Mar-
the Government laid down the principles which quis did not support the principles
,of the Paper,
they considered consonant with the well under- he had supported the views of the Allied Sove-
stood laws of .nations ; and having stated so much, reigns. Whenever the present question 'ws
he felt'satisfied the House would see there was no started, it was always met by a warm euloginm
necessity for producing the papers called for.— on. the two Emperors, in whose transactions he
(Hear, hear !) _ (Mr. H.) considered the Noble Marquis and. his
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said that the technical colleague to 'be parties. The SOvereigns 'had
objection of the Noble Marquis to the present dragged the, King of. Naples as a prisoner to
motion had a tendency to narrow the constitu- Troppau, and had compelled him to violate" the
Clonal functions of the House. The Noble 'Mar- most solemn oaths. 'Was not this, he asked,
.an-
quis had not stated that a compliance with the act of villainy and aggression? They had also
motion would cause any injury, and indeed he put 100,000 men in .motion, On-.a bare rumour
(Sir James) must repeat, that the whole of the that their plans were about-to be resisted'. They
argument of the Noble Marquis went to contract had made. themselves the dictators of Europe,
the constitutional privileges of the House. .With and the policy of the NOble Marquis hat) re-
the general principles of the Noble Marquis he duced this country to the rank-of a ininor I:State,
(Sir James) was not disposed to quarrel ; on the and, from the transactionsat,Vienna downwaVas,
contrary, he was rejoiced' to hear him condemn the Noble Marquis . had madelimself a partner
the conduct pursued by the Allied Sovereigns at in all the .measures of spoliation adopted by. the
Troppau and Laybach.—(hear.)—ile was,glad Allies.
to hear a repetition of the'strong language of the Colonel DaVts said, there was no act or atro-
Noble-Marquis on this subject, and he trusted that city of which he did not think the Allies citable.
this language would find its way through the As Russia was a maritime power, he tNught
House all over Europe. -(Cheers.) lie was no ge- it by no means impossible that the, .Austrian
neral admirer of revolutions, but he could not be- troops now in Sicily might he substituted ftit: Rus-
lieve that-areveltition was,in every case, thegreat- sian, and the English maritime ascendancy in
est of all evils,. for it generally implied the exist- that quarter would 'be disturbed. He merely put
ence of a greater evil, which it-was the object of the -case •hypothetically, and 'he wished •tokflow
the revolution to remove. Thegreatest evil, he the course which would be taken by Miniaters,
thought, was perpetual slavery, for 'it 'was at should Austria attempt to keep perwarteni
,IN•s-
once the.disgrace-and the scourge of mankind.---- session of Sicily ?
.. The waste of human blood was an evil, but it • The Marquis'of LONDONDERRY said, he-must
was less than, nothing- when compared with the ' • .
bee- to decline- answering the-hypothesis* the
loss of liberty. Ile could not but feel surprised at
.Gallant Member ;' for he conlitnot anlwer upOu a
the reference which had•been made-by the Noble case which was merely assumed. At .present- it
Marquis in the case of Naples, and the. way in which was' understood that the Austrians merely.-re-
he had applied it; in the case of NapleS, which lieved the-Neapolitan-garrisons, who"were'yery
had been brought.before the Ifonse,A. secret- di, unpopular in. Sicily, in consequence of their . ex-
plomatic correspondence had.been withheld, and 'cesses at unpopular,
• The Austrian troops' had
its production uas refused on the ground that the beenintroduced at the request of •-the Icing of
House reposed confidence in Ministers, and that
.Nitples himself, and he was-riot prepared fo„;.say-
an order for producing it would imply• a want of that we ought to interfere" in a case wher.ein a
ht
that confidence. The present motion was for the Sovereign
.thought proper to invite foreikrt'Sol-
diers into his owndominions.
official production of a document already pub-
'Sir It. WILSoN said he cotild not agree in the
fished. It was 'called: for because it displayed
is
Principle just laid down by the,Noble Marquess.
the views, of powerful Wand combined Score-
If the King of Spain, for instanee, ;chose to in-
ps intohis ornriions„ was,this
reigns and affected the safety of - Li'uropcn• The
vite foreign. troo d'' ''' ' - ' •
Allied' Sovereigns had acquired the possession of
:
immense territory, and had assumed a right to put country hot to
.notice it ? With respeet'to7the
observation of his Gallant Friend;- he Allan&
down what they called _rebellion wherever. it
there was real danger that the ascendancy ^4. he
should appear. Not the least aggravation "of
English in the .:Sicilian quarter.. would' liel.i.lis-
their conduct was the fact,' that after the. protest
turbed.' - - - .
of England against the principles upOn which
,
they acted, they, at the close of. their labours; The Marquess of •I.OI;IDONDERRY said, the.ilan-
reptiblished those- principles and readopted all ger existed only in 'the fertile imagination of,-,the that had been condemned by. this country. The _on-. and
Gallant. General.
paper lately..circulated,by Count-Nesselrode, the
Russian Ambassador, referred to a paper he had. ,•,.
Mr. -8.:WO UTLEY said a- few wOrdi In reply,
i• _ ' ....
published twelve months before, addressed to to the 'effect,as was understood, thatife-had -no.
the Spanish Minister at the Russian Court,. This wish to divide' the Honse; 'hilt 'StrangerS Were
prevmualy circulated -paper was directed against ordered to withdraw, ' and a division took place,
t - ;'. -, •- • ' :. ••!- 7!
the Spanish Revolution, andt vlhat..alone; for those - ,when there'. appeared
- •
_i
of Naples and Piedmont had not then taken place. For the Motion
Terence,l was clear,
therefore., that the right, of inter-
'
Against it '.
had been so,boldlyassued,.could '• ' • Majority 4- ,
which
rn
not be justified., with regard to S-pain on, the „ -131.4 ATE U.ARRII,j'iS.:4 0.
ground of.vicinage. •The right, therefore, which ~;;er: Alderman WOOD called. the attentioTi .;.of the T.T•ch_ 4' to
A. waste of the propertt of. thc .cordyrt. by certgna.:li:4.s
had been. so assumed stood upon the reverse of ivh'..'t fiad'been 'Aianted of ranic.a;-in,Walefiolid whi4l, li/; cot,_
all principle, upon a mere.-desire to•govern other tei*d?' reqUired
-an i'ogniry. 1160i4efbrelmy44--:Apt a
to p:„.iiit bof two 13ase§by the. Board 0WV904 uliV9.st4s.4);*Qrd
in cases like this it was dangerous (!eminittee sopld ,bo appomted td, 'take .intfrkiottsidorailoirthe
nations.

59 •*'•
-

~il'~.

keeryn tali /Ir, Pennant, for the opening slate quarries on
"*.nlechyd-rountion."
Mr. lIIJTCHINSON said, the contrast of a discussion re-
shaecting Kings and Emperors and one relating to a barren
mountain, was rather odd—yet the worthy Alderman had called
the House to inireitigate a subject which hadbeen discussed be-
:tele frequently ; and also to prove that slates were to be in-
laded among minerals ; and whether those mines were pro-
yeely worked. He had frequently sent down surveyors, but
the worthy Alderman had not been contented with their report;
hawever, if the worthy Alderman would pay the
,expence of
;r• ether surveyor, he had no objection to send a surveyor to the
Tlace agent.
• Mr. PI:NNANT said, that the Hon. Alderman knew no-
te.e; of a quarry, or of its working, since he required that a
qearry of two years work should produce as much as one work-
ed for more than 100 years.
iILIME supported the motion. He contended that this
vianing of the quarry at Llanlechyd would cause a rivalry
egainst the Hon. 3/ember's quarry now at work. Unless that
quarry was worked, how could its value be known ?
Mr. PENNANT explained.
After tome observations from Mr. CREEVEY, who 'support-
' td :he motion,
;air. Alderman WOOD replied. If the Right Hon. Gentle.
.hearen would agree to send a fair surveyor, he would have no ob.
aection to pay his expences.
. • The House divided—
. ; For the Motion - ' - - -
Against it . - - -
Majority - -
ILCIIESTER CIAOte
Mr. DTCNENSON,enoved 'to diathafge an order, made on
the motion of Aldetmaii-Airood, for laying before the• House a
evport of the % eating Magistrates respecting the conductof the
• Keeper ef llchester Gaol. The Hon. Member stated, that the
••Report moved for Was ex-parte, and, as a Corimiission had been
sppointsd to inquire into the state dfihe Gaol, it: would he more
eiitapaytial to wait for the Report of the said Commission.
Alderman WOOD adverted to attacks which he said .were
- raide against him at the time he Mewed for the-report. It was
'zeta. among other things; that he was not in the prison. That
statement was however incorrect; he was there, with other
Itiernbers of the Corporation of Louden. The Magistrates had
ainee inquired into theconduct of the gaoler, who had requested
three weeks to make his defence ; they gave inni one week, and
Le made-no defence. He wished to have the evidence taken on
-the spot, and the report made to the Sessions. Having moved
;that the evidence should be returned to the House, he expressed
a hope that the order made in consequence of that motion might.
'het be reecinded.
• ' Mr. CREEVEY opposed the motionof the lion. Member.
• e. -Mr. HOBHOIJSE also opposed it. ,- The Honourable Alder-
tran, in his opinion, had not received the courtesy usual in that
/rouse. •
3lr. ELLICE' said, he was desirous that truth should be,
fairlybrought before the House, and therefore he would sup-
port the motion of his Hon. Friend.
Mr.B.BATHURST observed, that the motion of the lion.
Alderman had surprised the wisdom of the House. It appeared
tarurii that the House. was called on to proceed upon a partial
inquiry, made by the Magistrates. The Commissioners who
. - 'Were sent to make inquiry would give an impartial RePort, and
the House would do well to wait for that Report. Ile sup-
pcated the Motion.
Mr.. GORDON was for the Motion.
. Mr:DICKENSON admitted-he stated on a former day that
the Worthy Alderman did not go into the JaiL He was wrong
in that statement; but he knew the Worthy Alderman had
made his Report of the state of the Jail from Neale's Book,
which was published two years before.'
Mr. BENNET'r wished for the Report of the Magistrates
-rather than the Report of the Commission of Parliament, and
• tie really felt that the House would not do its duty if it neglected
41 call for the whole inquiry'from first to last.
• After some further observations from Mr. Wane, Mr. Hume,
Mr. Bathurst, Mr. William Smith, Mr. Dickenson, Mr.
Breragbam, and Mr. Maberley, the House divided—
For the Motion - - 63
. Against it . . 20

- 19
- 90
-71

Majority -
The order was consequently discharged.
FORGERY.

-

On our re-admission to the Gallery we found.
Mr. R. MA RTlNproposing his Bill to mitigate the punish.
.tent for the crime of forgery, and all crimes connected. there-
witia. He said it was not his intention altogether to take away
the:
.punishment of death in cases of forgery ; but to give a dis-
Cretionary power" to the judge to sentence to transportation for
Ife instead of death, in cases where the prosecutor, jury, and
judge, should 'concur in the propriety of such a mitigation : and
tie only wished the Bill to have an experimental operation until
nal:. Session. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in
his Bill ; but he afterwards withdrew it, at the suggestion of
Mr. BANXES.

CREEVEY wished to know on what day it was intended
to-move the Ist reading of the Duke of Clarence's Grant Bill.
;Ihe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said early in
tbo.ansuing Week, perhaps Tuesday or Thursday.
• PREPARATIONS FOR nu: CORONATION.
Sir RONALD FERGUSSON wished to ask whether in the
preparations for the Coronation, it was intended to stop up the
paviage to the two-Houses of Parliament. He had nearly fallen
over the boards which narrowed the way, as he came down to the
House. He was as anxious as any man that the Sovereign should
stand as high as possible in the estiination of the people; but
be did, not think so foolish a pageant as this was calculated to
add to his dignity. It could not advance him in the good opi-
nion of his people in the present state of the times ; it could not
add a feather to his cap, nor a gem to his crown. He saw no-
thing to be gained by so absurd and expensive a pageant.—
(Hear, hear !)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he be-
lizv&.l that this was the first time the Coronation of a Sovereign
had been spoken of in that Ilduse in the manner in which it
had now been by tbe Hon. and Gallant General—(Hear !)
Every man conversant with the history and antiquity of this
country must know that the Coronation was not an rule pageant,
but a ceremony essentially' connected with the exercise of the
kzngly functions.—(Hear !)—That preparations for such an
event were necessary must be obvious, and none were made
which he did not believe to be indispensable.—(Hear.)
Mr. HOBHOUSE wished to know how long tbe avenues of
both Houses of Parliament were to remain blocked up by SOl-
- From time immemorial the Hall had been free from
sich a spectacle, until within the last twelvemonths.

Sir. RONALD FERGUSSONexplai.ned,-tha he had as
lull a regard for the kingly dignity as the Right Hon. Gentle-
man ; but he still thought the preparations for this pageant
ou.#4 not to be suffered to block up the avenue to both
Houes of Parliament.—(Hear.)---The House then passed to the
Qrders of the Day.
Tie Foctra Post Bill was read a second time, and ordered to
be committed on Wednesday.
TOBACCO DUTIES.
. _

On the motion for committing the Tobacco Duties Bill,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he
si.ould he ready to abandon the moulding clause, if any great
iaconvenience were found to arise from it to the trade.
Mr. CALVERT said, that unless the clause were altogether
abandoned, he should move an adjournment.
After a short conversation, the House divided on the question
adjournrr.ent, when the numbers were—
' For it - - - - - - 11
Against it - - - - 30
• f - -Majority
.against the adjournment - —l2
On our re-admission, we found Mr. HonnousE again mov-
ir.ohe question of adjournment, and the CHANCEILOR of the
Excnt auun then consented to postpone the Committee until
-otirrow.
The other Orders of the Day were then read, and the House
acljoittned at Two o'Cr.ocK.

LIST OF THE MINORITY

WITO VOTED FOIL LORD WM. BENTINCK'S MOTION RE-

SPECTING THE AFFAIRS OF SICILY.
lITCII, J. Hume, J. Newport, Sir J.
Cavendish, Hon. H. Hamilton, Lord A. Palmer, C. F.
Clifford, W. J. Ilarbord, Hon. E. P-obarts, Col.
Coithorpe,Hn.F.G. Hurst, R. Ricardo, David
Crespigny, Sir W. Hutchinson, Hn.H. Rumbold, J.
Dee . M'lntosh, Sir J. Scarlett, J.
fkinson, W. Moberly, J. jun. - Sykes, D.
Durdas, T. Maxwell, J. Smith R.
]?ivies, Col. Monck, J. B. Tierney, R€.Hn.G.
Griffiths, J. W. Martin, John Whitbread, S. C.
Grattan, J. Milton, Viscount Webb, Col.
Crap fell, P. Newman, T. Wood, Ald.
TELLERS—Lord W. Bentinck and Hon. J. Abercromby.

DARING- ROBBERY.—OH Wednesday night
about-eleven o!clock, as Mr. CHARLES DIG-
I (well known to the musical world) was
passing through Little Queen-street, Holborn, on
his,way to his house in Gloucesterrstreet,BloomsT
bury, a man ran out of Newton's-lane, anal
knocked him backwards, at the same time snatch-
jag- a Valuable gold watch from his fob, with
wilith he got clear off. Mr, D. we are sorry to
add, received a severe wound -on the back part
4his head, owing to the violence of the fall.

THE SUN.

SOLEN 4211.1.9• DICERE FALSUM AUDEJT

LONDON,

FRIDAY; JUNE 22, 1821.

The intelligence from Spain and Turkey is so
various and contradictory, that it is hardly pos-
sible to form any reasonable conjectures as to the
course of events, or on what is likely to be the
final issue. As to Spain, little can be hoped of
a tranquil restoration of au established Govern-
ment. A democratic ascendancy seems obvious
in that Country, nor should we be at all sur-
prised at finding the Regal Authority at an end.
With respect to the Greeks, the latest accounts
are of a promising-nature, and all mankind will
of course rejoice in the triumph of a gallant
People over the most ferocious and oppressive
Government on the face of the earth.

We are too well acquainted with the danger
of incurring a Breach of Privilege to make any
comments on what Sir RONALD FERGUSON is
stated LD have uttered last night in the House of
Commons, in reference to the approaching co-
RONATION, Viz. that it was " a most foolish, ab-
surd, and ridiculous Pageant.". Our Ancestors
deemed this 4‘ Pageant" the most AWFUL CON
STITUTIONAL CEREMONY that could take place,
comprising, as it does, the SOLEMN COMPACT be-
tween the SOVEREIGN and THE PEOPLE, guarding
the Prerogative of TIIE CROWN, and securing the
Liberties of THE SUBJECT; and We are per-
suaded that Republican Principles have not
spread to such an extent in this Country but that
the loyal feelings of the Nation at large will revolt
against the epithets applied to this august, inte-
resting, and awful solemnity, by the Honour-
able Member. But, if it can afford any gratifi-
cation to him, he had the honour of being
.de-
fended .by Mr. HonnousE!!! We leave the
people in general to make their own reflections,
and to form their own opinions on sentiments
that we •believe were never uttered in Parliament
since the cavalier treatment which the House of
Commons received from that great Reformer
CROMWELL.

[Extract of a Letter from Vienna, dated June
6, 1821.]—The infant son• of their Excellencies
Lord and, Lady VANE STEWART was baptized at
the Ambassador's Palace, on Monday evening,
the 4th June, at 10 o'clock. The ceremony was
performed by the Rev. WILLIAM BRADFORD,
Chaplain to the Embassy. His Highness Prince
METTERNICH, Chancellor of State, represented
his BRITANNIC MAJESTY on this occasion; who had
signified his gracious intention of standing Sponsor
for the young infant. Prince ESTERDAZY, who
was to have represented the Marquis of LON-
DONDERRY, the 'other Sponsor, was prevented
by illness from attending. His Highness's place
was therefore filled by Lord STEWART.—Her
Excellency the Ambassadress stood for her Mo-
ther the Countess of ANTRIM, and was attired, as
well as the infant, in superb dresses of Brussels
lace. The jewels, and especially the pearls, worn
by Lady STEWART, were of the largest and
most magnificent description.—We never saw her
Excellency in higher beauty, and her lovely
infant was the admiration of the whole company.
lie was baptized by the names of GEORGE
II ENRY ROBERT CHARLES. All the rank and
fashion in Vienna were present in gala dress, and,

with the Ministers and Officers of State in their
orders and decorations, presented-a most brilliant
spectacle. Prince METTERNICH wore the superb-
Order and Ribband of the grand Cross of
the Guelph. The Ambassadors 'of France,
Russia, Prussia,. the Netherlands, &c.
and the whole of the Corps Diplomatic, assisted
at the ceremony. These distinguished Guests
sat down at eleven o'clock to a sumptuous enter-
tainment, consisting of the choicest wines and
every delicacy which the season afforded. The
devices and decorations of the tables were unique,
and the most elegant and appropriate we ever
witnessed. The company separated at a late
hour, highly gratified with the affability and at-
tention of their Noble Host and Hostess.

Answer of Lieut. Governor Sir PEREGRINE MAITLAND,
K. C.B. to the joint Address of the Legislative Council and
Assembly of Upper Canada, praying him to transmit their
Address respecting losses to the KING :--
" Honourable Gentlemen and Gentlemen,

" The sale of confiscated estates„ commanded for the graci-
ous purpose to which your joint Address alludes, was an earnest
of his Majesty's benevolent intentions towards the suff.erers by
the late war. The delay which succeeded, has been contrary to
the wishes of your Sovereign.—llis Majesty's Government, in-
terested for t,lie sufferers, had recourse a second time to. the Par-
liament of this Province for the preliminary enactment which
was necessary, but had been denied in a former, Session.—No
representation, therefore, in addition to those already made,
could be necessary to induce the attention of the. King
to this subject, whenever an official statement of the
proceeds of the confiscated property could be transmit-
ted from this country ; yet as the extreme distress of the
sufferers under that pressure which we feel in common with
other parts of the world, is the immediate cause of your ad-
dress, and the official statement of the proceeds cannot be
immediately procured, I shall with great pleasure comply
with yosr wishes; and I shall have the most sincere gratifica-
tion, if it should be found in the power, as I know it to be in
the inclination of my Royal Master; to afford the sufferers, for
whom I warmly feel, a compensation justly proportioned to the
losses they mey have sustained."

COURTS OF LAW.—This being the first day of
Trinity Term, the LORD CHANCELLOR came to
Lincoln's Inn Hall at an early hour, and having
heard Counsel in his private room in the case of
VINCENT v. Curt Tors, he gave audience to the
Vice Chancellor, the Learned Judges, the Mas-
ter of the Rolls, the Attorney and Solicitor Ge-
nerals, together with the most eminent Counsel
of the different Courts, who partook of br,eakfast
with his Lordship ; after which they proceeded
in state to Westminster, when the several Courts
were opened with the accustomed formality.
LIBEL ON LADY JERSEY.—At the Sitting of
the Court of King's Bench this morning, Mr.
SCARLETT moved for a Rule to show cause why
a Criminal Information should not be filed against
Messrs. WEAVER, ARROWSMITH, and SHACKLE,
for a libel on Lady SERSLY, contained in the John
Bull Sunday Paper, of which they are Proprietors.
The libel complained of, was imputing criminality
to the Countess, in consequence of her visiting
the Queen, stating, that she had thereby been
abandoned by society, and was about to leave
the country. An affidavit from Lord Jersey
denied this statement, and the Court granted the
Rule.

The following paragraph appears in the Morn-
ing Chronicle of this day. We, conceive that the
whisper which it alludes to is only heard in the
Chronicle office, and it seems to be inserted with
an insidious intention to excite expectation, to
imbitter disappointment, and to occasion dis-
turbance :

" It is whiSpered that a Bill is to be introduced into Parlia-
ment before its rising, to modify the Coronation Oath ; so that
it may at no time hereafter be alleged as an obstacle to the
placing all sects of Christians on an equal footing with regard
to constitutional rights. Such an Act would be hailed by the
pcopleof Ireland as auspicious to the just claim?..9f the Roman
Cathohcs, and would prepare the way for his Majesty's joyous
reception in the sister kingdom."

Lord GNVICIER, who has the arrangement of
tickets for the Coronation, has made the most• li-
beral provision for the admission of the Re-
porters from the several Public Journals,- so that
the people throughout the Empire will be grati-
fied with the most ample accounts of this mcignifi-
cent spectacle, in all its forms and ceremonies.—
Nothing can exceed the kind condescension and
courtesy of the Noble Lord on, this, occasion, and
it should be mentioned, to the honour of his libe-
ral spirit, that for tickets of admission in former
instances payment was demanded, but that his
Lordship has disdained to avail himself of any
pecuniary advantage.
Private letters from St. Helena, of the 25th of
April, have reached town. The Ex-EmrEnon
had not entirely recovered from the serious
indisposition under which he had laboured, for
some time past, and scarcely ever left his new
house.

Yesterday, about ten o'clock, the Duke and
Duchess of CLARENCE, accompanied by the
Princess AUGUSTA, left town for Kew. Their
Royal Highnesses called at Kensington, and took
the Duchess of 'CENT with them. The Royal
party returned to London to dinner in the evening.
The Duke of CAMBRIDGE will reside at the
KING'S Palace, in St. James's Park, during his
stay in England. Apartments are preparing. fcr
the reception of his Royal Highness.
A Society is just formed in Limerick for the
relief of distressed North Britons. Mr. J. EWART
is elected President, Me. Stevenson, Vice Presi-
dent, and the Rey. John Pinkerton, Secretary.—
(Cork Chronicle.)
The Post-Masters-General of England have
granted 10001. to the Commander of the Milford
and Waterford Packets, and 100/. additional
salary, for the loss sustained by them, occasioned
by the Steam Vessels between Holyhead and
Dublin.—(lbid.)
Mr. JOHN WGREGOR of Waterford, the editor
of The History qfthe French Revolution, which has
attracted so much notice as a most valuable pub-
lication, has just put to Press An History of the
City of Dublin.—(ibid.)

PRIVATE AND AUTHENTIC CORRESPONDENCE

PARIS, JUNE 18.—T he discussions on the Budget
have been very violent. The government has
shewn great liberality in providing amply for the
progress of education, which the Ultras do not
like ; they want society to be in that state, when,
to be able to write was
_as great a disgrace to a
Nobleman as if he had married a plebeian—but
the Ministry seconded by the liberals carried the
point. On voting the funds for the police the
" Calumniator" CLAUSF.I. de COUSSERGUES re-
newed his attacks on M. DE CAZES j he attempted
to show that from 1789 to the present hour, the
French Police followed the same system, and
that to it was owing all the horrors of a revolu-
tion, the 20th March, the Ordnance dissolving the
Chamber of 1815, the Law of Elections, the
massacres in the South of France, the murder of
the Duke DE BERRY, the revOlutions of Spain,
Portugal, Naples, Piedmont, and Greece!!!
And of all these since 1815 M. DE CAZES was
the author, whether in office or not. We can
hardly suppose that a man in whom knave
and ideot so perfectly unite, could be per-
mitted such rhodomontade. As he 'fad served
BONAPARTE, he made a distinction between the
services rendered. " There are, says he, two
classes of services, one in which serving the
Usurper was serving France ; in that class I
stood ; the other was the reverse, and in that
were all my enemies." I, says he, " have written a
book to prove all I advance, and if any one does
not think I have proved it, I consent to be called
a calumniator"—a hundred voices instantly ex-
claimed—" edo not think you have, draw
the coniequence."—M. ST. AULAIRE rose, and-
defended his son-in-law with a zeal and talent'
only inferior to that displayed on the occasion
by the Minister of Justice, Foreign Affairs, and
Interior, who paid a just tribute to the adminis-
tration of the Duke DE CAZES, Count ANGLES'
and Baron Mousten, whom CLAUSE!. DE COUS-
sEnGuEs wished to prove responsible for all the
crimes committed.—TioNNADlEu rose, as being
the only one worthy of supporting his friend's
motion. This man had the impudence to assert
that the Ministry was the cause of the blood
he had shed at Grenoble. Every one shud-
dered at the idea of this monster daring
•to name an event which covers him with
eternal disgrace, and for which his life ought to
have paid the forfeit. I gave you at the time
copies of his despatches, in which he informed
the Minister, that the city was attacked by 7000
persons, and that their dead bodies covered a
league round Grenoble. M. Dr CAZES obtained
exact information of the fact, and found it was
300 persons out of work, unarmed for the most
part, who were instigated by DONNADIEU'S agents
to commit disturbances, and who fled with such
precipitation, that though the troops were posted
to receive them, and that they were totally una-
ware of it, only six were killed, and all by musket
shot. DONNADIEU, in his despatch, states the
killed at 700 ! !!—The affairs of Turkey are in a
critical state ; the hour appears to be come when
that monstrous anomaly will cease to exist in
Christian Europe.

THE IC ING'SVISIT TO THE CONTINENT.—Great
preparations continue to be made at Hamburg!)
for the reception of the KING of ENGLAND,
whose arrival is announced for the month of
August. As far as we yet know, his Majesty
will probably meet the Royal Family of the Ne-
therlands at Spa, whether the Grand Duke Ni-
cholas may perhaps come from Ems, where he
will stay some time on account of the health
of his Consort. With respect to visits said to be
intended to be made to the Courts of Berlin
and Vienna, they are founded, for the present,
on unanthenticated reports. So far as the
plan of his Majesty's 'journey (which may how-
ever, be altered according to circumstances,)
he will take the road directly from here by way
of Giesseo, Marburg, and Cassel, to Minlen, the
Hanoverian frontier town, where he will be re-
ceived with great ceremony ; he will then con-
tinue his journey to Gottingen, where a house is
already prepared for his -reception in the village
Of Wehude, and then go on the. Harz to Hanover.
—(German Paper.)
ENGLISH OPERA Houst.—This compact, con-
venient, and elegant Theatre was opened for the
season last night, and was attended by a very
numerous audience. The dramatic pieces were
Free and Easy, The Romp, and The Vampire.
BARTLEY, WRENCH, WILKINSON, Mrs. CHAT^
TERLEY, and. Miss KELLY, the standard per-
formers of the company, and some respectable
additions, male and female, contributed highly
to the gratification of the audience;' and the
Pastoral Saloon constituted a very pleaiing and
refreshing scene.
POPERY.—On the 26th of October, 1630,
Lord RUSSEL moved, that the Commons might, in
the first place, take into consideration how to
suppress the ascendancy of Popery and prevent
a Popish successor. The Bill was brought in for
excluding the then. Duke of YORK from the
Crown, which passed the Commons,- but was
thrown out by the Lords, to whom it was carried
by Lord RUSSET, and almost the whole House of
Commons. In 1821 a Bill was brought in by
Mr. PLUNKETT and seconded by Mr. COURTENEY,
for the reintroduction and establishment of
Popery, which passed the House of Commons by
a certain majority of thirteen only ! On being
presented to the Lords, it was carried by a few
members, and on the motion that it might be
read a second time, it was thrown out by a ma-
jority of fifty four. , It only required a clause to
prevent a Protestant successor to the Throne of
England, to have formed a complete contrast with
the other Bill. Since the above period, until
this year, the Lords have never been put to the
test : probably Lord GEORGE GORDON'S mob
once saved them the trial. Thus then a ma-
jority of thirteen individuals seemed disposed
to make that inroad upon the Constitution, in the
present generation;which it had been the effected
object of so many generations to prevent; that
the civil liberty of the subject, as well as the re-
ligious, might be protected from the intolerance
that would ensue upon Roman Catholic ascen-
dancy.