The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-17 00:00:00

the liberty of appealing to the Roman Catholic Gentle-
men on She opposite side whether, if put in their position,
they could conseieistiously bestow money for a college,
exclusively intended for the promulgation of doctrines
opposed to their own ? He would protest against the
truth of the saying that encouragement and toleration
were the sames--(llear, hoar.) Ile would oppose
this Bill, because he thought that it would be a Se-
rious insult to the Pro'estant Church of this country.
—(Hear.) It was said that this measure was i ntro:
duced to conciliate the people of Ireland. He cb nied
that such a Bill would produce such a result. Be was
certain that it would be regarded with alarm by the
j
agricultural interest of this country—(Laughter, an;
Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp)—and it woule
be a deep insult to the Protestants of Ireland.
Lord ASHLEY said that the position of those I°,
voted for this Bill was far it ss difficult than that or
those who opposed it. The former had not only t()
speak of what may be considered an evil, but had to
speak to those Gentlemen here present who were deeply
interested. The latter had to urge what may be co,a‘
sidered speculation, against that which the others in n,
tained to be accurate. They had to speak tothe wishe'
and desires of many gentlemen there, differing from them'
but for many o`.. whom they entertained the greatest re.-
-
spect, and with whom they lived on terms of close inti
macy ; it was for these reasons that he felt a great
cre-
pugnance in opposing a measure which did net aecori.
with his conscientious belief. The measure, howeve
had been propounded by her Majesty's Government,
va!:h
they must address themselves to the discussion of it
as much forbearance as they could. He was at all timesle
unwilling to press himself upon the attention of !
House, and if he could have found it possible to abstat
altogether from addressing the House on a settie
of such painful anxiety he would have withheld subject
observations. 'The question was one which ought to re;
ceive the most minute and full investigation.—( tsar
In importance, it exceeded any measure that had eve
been introduced into the House in his remembrancei
(Hear, hear) For good or for evil to Ireland, a mess°
of more vast importance had never been introduced.
1'
(Hear, hear.) It exceeded in importance the Rori;tl
Catholic Relief Bill. When they removed civil W'
abilities from the Roman Catholics they removed re:
strictions, and gave those who had suffered from those
restrictions full scope for free action. But in the Pre;
sent case they not only removed restrictions but thu.....1
joined in the free action which that removal gave,'
(Hear, hear.) They gave all the support which tell
could confer to the activity of that free action wbcro
they had given by the measure of 1829. If the nieesad, •
worked well, it would work the regeneration of Rebel
—(Opposition cheers.) It would conciliate the affectioe
of the Irish people. He admitted that such would be
case if the measure worked well.—(Hear, hear.) 13aed
on the other hand, if it worked ill, he verily heliel'
that it would lead to the destruction of the Protestaeof
Establishment.—(Cheers from the Ministerial sidesso
the House.) And he felt that the perils of the Wes'.
were ten times more hazardous than those of any Ille.8;
sure that had ever been submitted to the consideratla
of Parliament. In discussing this question they code
not but consider the consequences—the natural, not tt.
forced consequences—which might flow from the eesssi,
merit of this Bill. He would not enter into the COs of
deration of the theological question—he would el
enter into the examination of the question, how 61 le,
was admissible to vote money for the fostering of ref
ligion, from which those who voted that monias
might dissent. That was not necessary fur t
line of argument which he intended to adqa;
But there was an objection that had been taken against tea
measure, both by the people at large and by all who OPP't of
the grant in that House—that it would be an endowleffor
the Roman Catholic Church by Act of Parliament. Th'neti,
jection was common to all the memorialists and all the roe
tioners who had appeared in that House. Whether they
members of Dissenting connexions, whether they were or
tached to the moderate party in the Church of Englee,nof
whether they belonged to those high theologians who 1(0
late obtained so much notice in the country, they af„,CF,lit
this one respect, that they all Objected to the grant. .o°4
was very true that the original constitution of the Colleibep
Mavnooth was based upon an Act of Parliament; but so
of 'Parliament of that day was very different frogs
eot
Act of Parliament in this. The Act of Pone.
by which Maynooth was founded was a repeal of iith•
penal Acts by which the statute-book was disfigured.
athlete
out the repeal, he believed it would have been irapostee
have founded that College atall, and the Act which authenot
the establishment of the College was only one in aid, en!det
one for an original endowment by the State. Now, the Pet''
Act was of a very different complexion. It gave this ore
resent to trustees in perpetual succession. It was an en Os
meat in perpetuity by the Imperial Parliament, with the tai
of 2'3,000/. The people of this country could not undfse,
on what principle the Government could either rely on toe; et
vious Acts of Parliament, or justify the application of al° re
this amount to a 'Roman Catholic College, or why, at tat, the
sent time, when there was no particular call for assistance,: to
whole of the expenses of the College should be provided SO
State. The previous grants had been small surestrthe,
in aid of contributions made for the education t.
Roman Catholic students in this College. But now thole
constituted the present grant a perpetual endowment. Iterosir
that College on the same footing, but only in a more la AO
able way, with the Universities of Oxford, Cambridget:lsold
Dublin, and he believed that the people of this count!, tbst
rather than this endowment should be carried into entefol,
the previous annual grant should have been increased th"„cosO
They said that this was a perpetual recognition of the 1! ear
Catholic Church as one of the standing institutions of thnos
pire.—( Hear, hear.) He had no doubt that this reCegilt":oo/
by the State of the Church of Ireland, as one of the instita;ed
of the country, had sunk deeper into the hearts of the reqvill
this country than if they had increased the former grant.of (be
this measure amounted to this. It declared, en the PertAd•
State, that as far as they could, the Roman Catholic rvi6l.
would never cease to be the religion of Ireland, becaugh
there be at any time a disinclination on the part of the 5,0
to spend money in support of that Church, the,,
would step in for the purpose of keeping ?ruse
College—by keeping up the supply which, if
slated by them, the people would also abandon- . Beset
this was certainly going beyond toleration..—(.‘ Heart serj
and cheer,.) It was going to an extent such as be
tain no conscientious Catholic would himself go to. ea ibis
not see how it was possible, after the House had afarte,nde°,i
measure, to refuse its assent at a future period to en "1, So'
meat of the Catholic Church, and the words whit Geo'
dropped in the course of this debate from the Right 11°P. ify
tlernan the Member for Dungarvon would seem t for;
impression that ulterior concessions would be likedala'',
There was a large party in that House who were 01,firer,f
that this Bill was but the herald of other measures
important. He would speak from his own conviction, oio fee
he had made up his mind to vote for this grant, he eb„agesti°l:
himself bound to vote for the endowment when that
came before the House. If the object of the Governtne"
as stated, to elevate the character of the f
tb
priesthood, and to improve the condition jot °eel,
people. If they, by- those collegiate advantages, re'deouo
priests to a higher level, then he (Lord Ashley) lobed,
they ought to keep them there. They ought not to say. ose';
who had been elevated in the scale of reason by this boo
" Now. go imitate your predecessors, by travelling 07,0013°,‘
to house to earn a precarious livelihood." Why, Was,`',
that tend more to the degradation of the Irish priestbTtai;
the advantages they had received, than if they haIF polt,e),
in their former position. If they did not carry out heirtre tyl
to this extent, he did not see how they could lolls, tbi'o
priesthood. To make them independent in prilicirtf-sit'ot
should make them independent of the people; and It° ,tio of
they be independent of the people if the Government bef 'i4ll
step in to their assistance by an endowment? Were the lr If
told by an Hon. Gentleman that the sympathies of dteutl hi,
priest must be with the flock on whom he was depee A 00t
they wished to make the priests draw their flocks en,"„f it",/
led by them—if they wished to make them independeo';...wip,
flocks—for it had been admitted that that was neceste'tleif
must endow the Irish priesthood, and recognise the Irish prio‘ef,
Where would they end if they once admitted tha'sstire,t)Di
pie? They would have twoco-existing Established -,;
lobed
They would have the Roman Catholic Church estabn f'l,r;
statute, and they would have the Established sftn
land. What would be the result? They would 1011;0'0C° t,
lation of 7.000,000 receiving for their establishment o'o°,o
and a population of one million receiving double that brotis
—(Loud Opposition cheers.) The very instant they, t ',rl
themselves to regard Reman Catholic principles 0 -tgitot,
gerous or subversive to the interests of the State, puteolJ
instant a re-construction appeared to be inevitable,,,• 00,id
before that, what would they require to do? I",e' tab de
have ;to take from the Church as now gel ti
the jurisdiction which they gave to the other, and hijderei 0'
altogether nugatory the means which they had c 0) sreie
best calculated to advance the interests of civilissu";pts
bls
good government. They would have two EstabliehleLsrl° to
proportioned in numbers, and animated by an 11101,:;stil*tle
9 spirit of rivalry. He wished to observe that in 0,-iess
his measure he was not acting from any illiberal prin,e'lloc'ob'
acted as a friend of Ireland had done before in that 0.11°,0,14
he meant Lord Monteagle, then Mr. Spring Rief,,,iti97ool
jetted to the removal of the grant from the annUel
because he thought that Parliament should have the oerliscl
t of
of the grant year after year. As he (Lord Ashley) 0 ',try
before,
before, so he would say again, that there had been 1)„ the
the question which had excited more displeasure O thB; A t
of making this a perpetual endowment. He did loPt-uste"oo
opposing such a Bill he should not be considered eV loot
arty feeling of hostility towards the people of Ire tayae,so
thought that the people of Ireland deserved not arnille 'jot
at their hands, but reparation also.—:( Hear, bear.) with°,r;'
could read the records of that unfortunate country (tie oe
feeling of shame for the injuries she had sufferek;so
If he thought that this concession would really
people of Ireland, he should hesitate before he opPos
r ai
he never yet saw any good come of what were gen! Si jeo
dared concessions. There fell, the other evening, isll'ool'
Hon. Gentleman, one of the more important of the ,Ifogot, tit
bees in that House, he meant the Member for x%iP„se,
some remarkable words, to which he (Lord Ashley) V-$lOl/
time marked attention. He warned the Right 10°410 tit'
at the head of the Government that the Catholic! i.,..otte lbe
wanted to be placed upon an equality with the r if pti'
of that country, and he told him thetore ce
present system of exclusion from Trinity College otbofli'l
nued, the measure now brought forward would ne,,eolol/
swered the desired end. So that it appeared that t Old
measure were carried there was at least another thbe atodt;
also carried before the Catholics of Ireland eo°l„,i , ,
degree satisfied. Had these expressions come 10'7,10 or,i
nary person he (Lord Ashley) should not have L0,.0,
attention to them, but-coming from the Right P," to r` `
feel,,,
man the Member for Dungarvon he was hennuo
them. He thought the Right Lion. Gentleman rßelie bo
justified in these expressions, for when the Catholic it neon
was passed it was well understood on all sides that probed
the forerunner of still greater concessions. If therroby,
of that measure bad said that concession had 0..1 we 004
limit, then he thought the Right Hon. Gentleo"'"St3,,P fft,t
fectly justified in stating what his demands were ono')
would he make that concession, if he thought it *""ecallecces-,0
a lasting benefit upon Ireland, but they should 11.3 t Oto !Ps,
disappointment in a matter of this kind broiled etyso,
misery and dismay upon the people. He was ca oot toss c°o
his vote upon that question, and be could not ass he of
sure that, so far from conferring, peace, would,
_ooe 000,,,
vinced, engender most hostile feelings in the r Nstrot`os
countries. Neither could he consent to a measorfeteat
tosetee
in any degree, suppress or retard the advance. °;000,11$i
tant faith, which he believed had been a Main •ssasts
bringing about the present state of civilisation , 0,00
freedom. „rot, oieltiDio
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQ'tj, he eDlo
that he was about to take a course vilor issci Te'pf
at variance with the opinions expressed 0101 W
friends in and out of that House. It had bee° slotte,bte,
Lord that they were about to make an eorb;it of .olt
the endowment of the Roman Catholic priesthe t
0 outd
but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did rs'everOre 1/
17,0001. could be considered by any means red IV
crease, when the purposes for which it was retied to ?id,
into consideration. He should rather be inoll°,,,recel
the satisfaction with which this measure hackbte ,-

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