The Sun.
London, England, 1819-03-02 00:00:00

PENRYN.

The Order of the Day for resuming the ad-
journed debate on the motion for a new Writ for
l'enryn having been read,
The SPEAKER said, that before the House pro-
ceeded to consider the adjourned motion, it might
be convenient to them to know in what state of
forWardness were the Minutes of Evi,lence'which
had been ordered to be printed. He understood
that they would not be printed till late in the day
of Wednesday, and therefore would not be in
course of delivery • till Thursday. In addition to
this the House would give him leave to state
what the practice of the House had been in simi-
lar cases. He had been on a former day called
upon to state whether it.had been the practice to
delay issuing the new Writs in cases in which
• special Reports were made. He could now say
with certainty, that in all cases in which, general
charges of bribery were made in the Special Report,
the issuing of the, new Writs had been delayed
till the Minutes bad been laid. before the House.
In the case of fichester, indeed, the Report charg-
ed some individuals with bribery, but did not call
for any general resolution. In, that case the House
ordered the new Writ, and directed the Attorney-
General to prosecute the offenders for bribery.
Sir C. Buil CELL said, that without presuming to
add any thing to a statement of so high autholity as
that of the Speaker, he.stionid-observe that it was
consonant with reason, as well as with practice,
that the, House should not proceed till the evi-
deuce on the 'subject had beets considered. It
also had been reported to him, that a material
witneSS;who would have disclosed the general pre-
valence of bribery in the
.Borough, had been ob•
jected to, and that the• 'votes for and against his
admission were so• nearly balanced, that he was
rejected by the casting vote of the Chairman.—'
He should beg also to refer to afOrmer Special Re-
port of an Election Committee,„ in relation to this
same Borough.

This Report (of 1S07), which was read by the
Clerk, stated that Sir C. Hawkins, the Member
petitioned against, was guilty of bribery, or coy-
npt practices, by himself or his agents, and that
some.vbters named in the Report were parties to
their corrupt practices.

Sir C. BORRELL (nen moved, that the debate be
adjourned. to this day sennight.
opinionits;ele,.ptirloerp,ericervectlyvsaoinlfeoiel'(xiitiffenenreteihit:ecgeHonse with respect
t
Colonel GRANT said, that whatever differences
tEoleschteiveopFinraio%
of
the
as
t
that it should be exercised purely and conscien-
cionsly. The difficulty in the present ease was,•
lest the honest part of the Electors of Penryn
should be deprived of their franchise on:account
of the misconduct of others. He had, however,
less reluctance in acceding to a short delay in is-
suing the writ, when he found in 1807 the inha-
bitants of the borough bad been guilty of corrupt
nractices. He thought that Monday was, per-
haps, too early a day,—(Cries of Nob
Mr. A. WRIGHT said, that seven or eight per-
sons hail-been proved to have received bribes in
this borough. This Was the extent of the bribery
proved. As to the notion that 100 voters had
been bribed,
it was entirely without foundation
in the evidence.
Sir J. NEWPORT approved of the adjournment.
1-le understood, that in addition to, the proof of
bribery on the individuals, it was proved that nei-
ther the one party nor the other tiad tendered the
bribery oath to any voter. He understood also,
that a paper had been offered to the Committee,
which, though not accepted, as it could not be
brought home to either party, and therefore
could have no reference to the late Election,
tainted the character of the whole borough. It
was no great punishment, after the second time
of the borough being brought before the House
for, bribery+ that its franchises should be put in
suspensionANlki'tfittoirec,awrtisila'eiC
Mr.
(,nn. e I, there was no proof before
t e Committee, either that the bribery oath had,
or that it had not, been administered.

Sir J. NEWPORT Said, that the omission of any
notice of the bribery oath in the poll book deci-
sively proved the negative.

HARVEY agreed in the propriety of waiting
for the 'minutes of evidence, and observed, that
when they .were laid before the House, it would
be found that sonic of the assertions would not be
borne out by the evidence.
Mr. BANKES acceded to the motion for delay,
on the gr►►uncl that this borough had been brought
before the House at two not very distant periods.
Mr.DuNNtsoN said it appeared most clearly, that
in this. respectable borough what was called a
breakfast was organized, at which every voter
received-245. for his vote.
The Motion was agreed to, and the further
consideration of the Report was also fixed for
Modday.

MR. GRADY.

Mr. C. HUTCHINSON said, that it had seemed

to be'a very general teeth% on the former night,
when the petition from Mr. Grady was presented,
. _

that the-House would be inclined to release hint it
a petition were presented, couched in. the usual
tet ins of submission and regret. Such a petition
he had now to present. 'Th►e petitioner stated
that he had never intended to offend the House,
expressed his regret that he had offended, and
prayed for his release. lie (Mr. H.) should not
add any-thing to irritate the feelings of any one,
or to counteract the object of the petitioner.
The Petition was read, and the petitioner de•
claiing that he had no intention whatever to offend
the House, or in the slightest degree to trench
upon its privileges, prayed that the House would
be graciously pleased to take his case into consi,-

deration, &c.
Mr. flurcniNsow moved, that chi, Petition be
ordered to lie Oil the table.

• Sir RaIiVRT Wrcsoll, in
.seconding the motion,
expresied Whope that the House would bear in
mind; the ill health of the-Petitioner,
The :notion being agreed to--
Mr that Mr_ Grady sliftillgt

be forthwith brought to the Bar in otder to be
discharged.
Mr. BOOTLE WILBRAHAM said, that he objected
to the motion of the Honourable Gentleman tiro
a former evening, because be thought the Peti
tion of Mr. Grady to have been couched in ex-
ceptionable terms ; but to the present petition no
such objection applied. From his knowledge•
however, of the practice of the House, he be:
lieved, that to adopt the motion just submitted
by the Honourable Gentleman would be rather ad
unprecedented measure. It was usual, according
to his recollection, to have any prisoner, en"-
fined by order (if the House, brought up to bd.
discharged at an early hour of the evening, be!'
cause, if the order for bringing up such a,prt::
soner were made at a late hour, the House tiligl%
rise before the order could be complied with. t)'.*
this ground he felt it proper to move, as t!'
Amendment, that the Petitioner should be brough
to the Bar to-morrow.
Mr. HUTCHINsoN expressed his unwillinel
to press any proposition inconsistent yd.t-
practice or judgment of the House, and there
fore, with leave of the House, he would with
draw his motion, in order to give way to tl
amendment.
Mr. BANKES said, that unless it were inesl
that the Petitioner was to be reprimanded "I°
his appearance at the Bar, be should feel it
duty to make a special motion on the sabieci.t. bet
i
The SPEAKER conceived that the order "t:' this
prisoner's appearance at the Bar, previous
release, necessarily implied a reprimand-
esker's
Mr. C. 117, \VYNN concurred in the Walt
opinion.
Upon the original motion, however,
withdrawn, it was ordered that Thomas Grades
should to-morrow be brought to the Bar, in or •5..
to be reprimanded by the Speaker, add tit
charged.

WINDSOR ESTABLISHMENT. thg
Lord CASTLEREAGH brought in the Bill-"rite-
better regulation of the Care and Custody of
Person of his. Majesty, and the Amendinen.t
the several Acts relative to that important obirto
The Bill was read a first time, and ord°elja/
be printed, and read a second time on T"''
next.

SUPPLY AND WAYS AND MEANS
moved
The CHANCELLOR of the ExcilEduElt„rly.
the postponement of the Committees of,„,',"(lpts.',
and also that of Ways and Means, until '
day next.

STEAM VESSELS. pp the
The Steam Vessels' lonnage Bill miss'
motion of the CHANCELLOR of the .60117,c5a;
read a third time and passed, as was ficog
Smugglers' Apprehension Rewards on" -

to the HOilbe.o.f Lords.

STATE OF PRISONS. I den'
Lord CASTLRRRAGR, in rising to call e gt•ouassi.
• (ion of the House to that important subject' 1..004
it necessary to advert to the notice
for to-morrow, as it was most closely 80c1 I lie
mutely connected with hiS present nrti".
Honou
• was inclined to suppose, that bad the
bo
understood
able .and Learned Gentleman fully
nature of his proposition he would have Iht.'"tig
his own less necessary' •ARight HOOOO -
Friend of'his had stated on the
st day (€)1,L1:IS
WhiCh
Session his (Lord C.'s) intention to move '"'t-ti
extensive inquiry into the State of prisomo
Criminal Code, and the Increase of Crimes•
objection had then been started, because the
Tiiry was not to be moved directly, but intlireetil
into the Criminal Code; but he trusted he sh°°
prove to the satisfaction of the House/ 68( itsilt
• the coutemplation of Government to go ',ed
into the question as the Honourable and Lear'-ce
G
entletnan himself. There was no differ:nl,
whatever in their object ; the only questi"alte
whatb was the kind of inquiry best calculated
ring it to an issue. If his only intentiv" this
been to inquire into the State of Prison% rg",
dimensions and regulations, he would lWr-cotir.
ferret! addressing the Crown to appoint a ijilt
mission to inquire into the subject' s alaC
his view was much snore extensive. It best
directed to the state of jails alone, but to the oil
mode whiCh could be adopted to controlita Wt
repress crimes. It was impossible to 1(1(7014,..
it as a question of prisons, without also °To.
in g at it as a question of crimes and nr:o.
uishment, and the laws by which it was in"„"otl
ed. The only difference was, that the Hon' "60
Learned Gentleman took the question on the °oil
of the laws of the criminal code, whilst lie to
C.) took those laws as being only concomi(dre4'
to the inquiry. He apprehended that the etill
of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's 113°'1,4,1
would be to create a prejudice against the eel
themselves, before any inquiry should have ,v.ebi„,
laid before the eye of Parliament, as to the po'si.tig
lity of diminishing their severity by re"deriessc
secondary punishMents effective, either by "Lyre
system of penitentiaries, or of transpoi tation:t to
terrifying than the present. Were ParlimPe.',l4
adopt the. course announced by the- lion', - s
Learned. Gentleman, it would begin 'by n 0551,70,4
general. sentence of condemnation on all the or 4
of the country. By the mode which he
t id-
C.) proposed, that inconvenience would he tit'o if
ed, and the inquiry would not be narrowed•
iot„
he had not bowed to the authority of an I,A-for
Gentleman on the second bench opposite. 0
whom he had • the highest respect, it %vas fr°ltie
conviction that he was fulfilling in the most etinn,
tive manner all the objects which that F"
Gentleman had in view. The inquiry would Vh...
brace the whole scope of our system of pour ey.'
meat, and the best method of preventing Cr',l,-„d...
As to the division of labour which had been a""
ed to, nothing would tend more effectuallYaieto
shackle
_inquiry, than to affect each branch oi rie
subject to a separate Committee. Such c°7
would even produce what was apprehentle%:y..,
considerable delay in the progress of the inquily,
If, on the contrary, it was carried on ttith u,11,:tolo
temper and caution, it could not fail to he rotten s
ed with the most useful results, and to lea" '"
satisfactory reform of our Criminal Lt""' Vag
Committees were multiplied, there would be a
oi
riety "
of reports, containing, perhaps, "Itirtefr
opinions,. and in what a dispersed and lb ify
ligible state would not the result of the ingtoib,
come before the House ? He should have o°t
tee,
jection to add to the number, of his Comil'iiers,
which he proposed should consist of '2l mei"- 01-
-quoid4r

henerer sneh an atlititinn inioilt I.w c

oitY,
:end°

R VII;
WO
Iltel:
lair)
0 OD'

ittec,
bCI
Jefej

\cXk

iteces ar 1
actin that the House should have the benefit
t't
11-" g on a Report drawn from the fullest
ttarces. of information, and by the ablest men
that could. be collected. On these grounds, he
trusted the [louse would not think that he wished
n''iittilleePCodeelyinfluiry by confining it to one. Com`
an ini
His. only object was to prevent
tttrY being done to the laws of the coun-
_TY, hY passing a general and premature con-
tiat t
itiisrievthei
r
ttriperm them, before having ascer-
list ficiencies. Fie should be'happy to
en ao the Hon. and Learned Gentlemao to-
-114)"°w, and to receive any correction front him
'-11
a subject which had but lately occupied hi;
• cg and frequeutly
I,Lod Castlereagh's) mind, whilst it had been
considered by the Hon. and
, "riled Member. He cautioned him, however,
whilst urging the principle of practical reform,
enist suffering the passions to be too much itt-
td, td,g gor jell. an exaggerated view of existing
. ,
'• tor it generally happened, that when the
Iltt ind bad been relieved from those exaggerations,
ii. svas disposed to grow indifferent to what re-
;s'ii:l"ll as ohjects of comparatively trifling ins-
"('-tanee: The increase of crimes had imposed
tliallt" Legislature the duty of inquiring into their
eit"ei_si and the means of their removal. The
h4ll"er of criminals of different, classes in Eng-
, ,NI and Wales for the last tour or five years was
kinore than doubled ; and if compared with that
it the commencement of a period of ten years,
4itid increased in the proportion of three to one.
sianY circumstances, however, induced a hope
.gat so great au increase of crimes could be tree-
,:i' ° temporary causes. The whole system, and
thMr'st nature of the country, had been SO altered
t.ll.'ilig the last twenty years, that the views
,givelrti
t it at that period were no longer applicable.
Tand,. taken a shape : it had swelled to a size.
I .'
growth of so many country towns, the en-
; 1114gchteet of the metropolis, and the increase
eiilitoiltirninet.anufacturiog districts, had in latter yeards
of arged the sphere of moral corruption an
More than onelsalf of the increase in
tee lituniser of criminals its England and Wales pi o-
ti;ile,,d from the five following counties: Lancashire,
11141'0"eX, Surrey (that pail of it connected withj i
tile Metropolis), Warwickshire (which containkcc-
Iliej°Kous town of Birmingham), and Yo .
% ites where our manufactures bad extended thetn-
etivisS° far. The growth of crime had follow-
-14,,,'"tt growth of great cities, and of manufac,-;
I, -.-13: Among the latter, those of cotton ha
I:%gi°"slY increased. Whereas they formerly
roducei - t of three or four
beni t :oods to the amount
tii, 4its sterling, they had within the last few years
i,i'ed their produce to sixteen millions. A great
Ititi,e of population had also taken place, and
111 were to be added the three or lour hundred
atkii%land individuals limn the Army, the Navy,
4 t" Militia,' which peace had thrown back
lifslti.rlit Country. Much therefore of the mass
I\r4etnle was connected with temporary causesi—a
lerscOrdY hail those men been thrown out .
ind:e Which bad not formed theist to habits ofi
40-14" Y, but there had fallen on this country sue 1
Noey„r of pressure of difficulties, of want of em-
oioli-i,hti and lowness of wages, forcing the poor
4 -e
°their • hes for relief, as conststut-
v ail tr parts
"'till:l4'onm of distress greater than had ever
grav,;'°%vn. All these causes operated in anaaigid
‘',,hilste,',l thanner to the production of crime;
there the vast extent of the evil was admitted,
litiii,-, rethained no option but resolutely to strive
1•0:"( it
AI, • Lapse of time, and a return to the
"les4h ,s'lf industry, would greatly diminish its
414t3 inr it was chiefly in passing from one
141; e 131 livelihood to another, that the temp-
kre°,4B to dishonesty acted with the greatest
it,a,:' This was a fair picture of the present
, nr .
Feet s Climes in this country, and of the pros-
-ISt of their removal. Other consolatory
i1t5(4,33 °petted from .no additional principle
Lab. I'I'IY having attached itself to our national
tasi:t,l. If the offences against property, and oc-
-41..,'11ed by distress, were separated from those
i
blacker (lye, the increase of crime wow(
v'i'sitie traced its the latter. Far from it ; there
of rr. "en he no ►positive increase in• that class
stse°,-ences, if compared with the account of the
`'4 e sh'in'es in former tithes when our populat in i
t4l islaller• Murders had not increased. Toe
fe(v4,,v-ettnus for that crime had last year been
(ll' titan during a great period of our history.—
treaeari hear I)--NeiJter had there beets any, M-
ill:se irl the followiw, crimes :—Maintiug, shoot-
sl,:',.:aolauslanghter, bigamy, assaults, rapes, anti
d' ttitilktdi practices. Nay, there had been rather
‘heiiit: uti°o: The great mass of increase was in
Iletve-a'es of toegery, larceny, burglary, and rob.,
4st,"; Adi lion. Member opposite had, with 1)1.3'
1.4141' warmth, attributed rite increase of forgeriei
lie,!e "gleet of the Bank.' But an inquiry had
li ; Proved that the BaOk had dime aed was wil-
ir::it. to do every thing in its power to render the
al,ati°o of its notes impracticable. There was
eitlit°,o„ notch disposition to think that the au,-
Iton„attOtt of forgeries had grown out of the
tlie7age of cash payments, and would cease with
e4irresumption. This was entirely wrong, and
tall 1"14 could he held out that the opening oldie
st4k 'would produce a corresponding reduction. inf
fora class of offences. But though the numbet o
trtseries had increased, that of exectitions for the
yet.tile had been less during the last eight or ten
b uls, than during the eight or ten which had
'recede', f..
11,_ •It the period which had elapsed since
Iv e• Imposition of the Batik Restrictions in 1797
t's divided into two, it would be found that
tileeethstions for forgery had beets fewer during
. , latter than the former part. As to bur-
Igi_l4yie! and robberies, they had increased in a mi-
vol. pinportion, and it was satisfactory to find that
,eltiel y did not bear the same characterof at rocions vio-
'ce arid cruelty as in former peridds. There was
uti.ut.”.atiditional proof that the increase of crimes
,i tit to be its a great measure attributed to tem-
eorery circurn
the -1„,.,11 stances. That proof was found in
,t)l.,:i e:
tt'rit 1:.,15et
tl-v, ei:rauitgieftvnefentt r:ltie:ntat
ttl.oe Which
if:
tlei
the
res 111.1:
adfletts:bkoaeired it'sltascpr
showedoi 1-1
ilitiat
t„..x oWffeincies I,od,
beets chiefly committed by
eitwhorCes
b' "ad been placed in a state of greater
:'4"es. lt n• as
"Y the cessation of war and other
.f t!ie law "" also gratifying. to observe, that
tali
„Let3l°f 'he country had not. been mate-
r ,ainiie..c in the severity of their provisions,
,I,kucy,
il,s!ration had been conducted with great
\ twitliatanding- the last growth of

crime, there lead been not only no positive in-
crease, but a diminution in the number of ekecu-
lions. In 1805, the number of sentences of death
passed was 350—in the last year 1250. But dur-
ing 14 years, out of those capitally convicted one
in fifty had been executed, whilst in 1817 the
proportion tva. one in eleven, and in 1818 one in
twelve. The whole number of persons who had
st,thretl under the sentence of the law in Great
Britain during the lasr• year was 97, and that
number had not varied for many years past. There
was a time when the number executed in London
and Middlesex atone exceeded that which now
sufficed for the whole conntry. He held a docu-
ment, from which it aprared, that immediately
atter the conclusion of the American . war, the
number of executions for London and Middlesex
alone was in the following proportions :
In 1733 53
In 175,1.

In 1785 97
In 178 G 59
In 1767 92
If he had nut taken an erroneous view of the sub-

jeer, it was therefore clear that instead of increas7

ing, the administration of the laws had diminish:
ed in severity. The present state ot.crinies, how-
ever, was no doubt-an evil of great magnitude,
and of a nature likely to appal the House, if it
were not traced to temporary causes. It had not
taken a direction at Which bur nature would revolt;
but one which circumstances had prescribed to it,
and which exertion on the part of the Legislature
might ultimately correct.An Hon. Member opposite
bad seemed disposed to attribute the increase of
crime exclusively to the corruptions witnessed by
young offenders in prisons that were improperly
administered. He (Lord C.) agreed with hint
to a certain extent ; but the House would fail
Miserably short of its duty if it supposed that the
great mass of the increase arose from that single
cause. There were whets which required the best
efforts to be used for their counteraction. Let
the House lay its shoulders, not only to inquire
into the state of prisons, but into that of crimes,
it it wished to reach the evil. With a view to
renilering secondary punishment effectual, an im-
portant question would open itself to the House.
It would be necessary to consider whether Botany
Bay had not assumed. too much of a colonial
character to be an object of terror to offenders,
and whether it would not be proper to make
some new arrangement for their transporta•
tion which would 'add more dread to their sen-
tence Ora what arose from the humanity with
which they were sent to that Colony (uotwith-
standing what had been. asserted by an Hon.
Member), and treated 'during their exile. So far
from creating apprehension, many persons received
the order of going to Botany Bay as ah indul-
gence rather than a punishment. If the terrors
of the law were so blunted,. was it wonderful that
crime should increase ? He would not now enter
into an examination of the state of our criminal
law. He had shown that it •was administeted
with lenity, and if the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man took it in the abstract, he would impute a
character to it, which did not belong to its prac-
tical administration. It might be a question whe-
ther it was politic that our law should demand
the penalty of death for offences which no other
country visited so severely ; but it would be
a mist difficult and anxious consideration how
to deal with crime, when it assumes a different
character from the circumstances with which it
is attended. To suppose that it'would be possi-
ble to graduate the scale of punishment so as to
meet all shades of guilt, would be to suppose a
perfection, or rather an imperfection, in our penal
code, which would strip mercy of, that judgment
and discretion with which it is now invested. If
punishments were pitched too tow, all their, ter-
rors would varnish ; and if, in those crimes in
which the sacrifice of life is required, an attempt
was made to graduate punishments, instead of
leaving it to the Judge to measure it according
to
_the circumstances of the case, a direct en-
couragement would be held out to guilt.. He
hoped that the Honouralle and Learued Gen-
tleman felt as he did, that there was no se-
parate interest between t hem, and that they
had but one common object—a most labo-
rious investigation into the state of et hoes
and punishmenis. He submitted to the House
that the only way to render that inquiry effectual
was to collect it into one focus. It it were dis-
persed amongst different Committees, the exer-
tioos of some of tine ablest Members would he
most to the House, because they would he confined
to one branch of the subject, instead of being ap-
plied to the concoction of the whole, The chief
object of the inquiry might thus be defeated.—
On these grounds he tiusted the House would ac-
cept the Committee which he intended to pro-
pose. If the number of its Metnhers was thought
too limited, he should not object to .add to it front
time to time, in order that the most comprehen-
sive view of so great and important a subject
should be submitted to the House. He should
move for the Committee in the form of a notice,
in which he bad placed every term which could
tend to make the inquiry as comprehensive as
possible. It it were not found so, he should be
willing.to amend his motion in any manner which
coold add to is effect. He deprecated any effort
to inflame the passions of the multitude, and to
make them fancy that a'boon was about to he.
given to crime. Nothing could be more 'instates-
manlike that such a course, and Inc trusted the
question would be discussed on practical grounds,
and not on abstract principles of untried combi-
nations. He then moved that a Committee be ap-
pointed-toinquire into the state and description
of Gaols amid other places- of confinement, and
into the best method of providing for the refor-
mation as well as the safe custody and punishment
of offenders.

Sir J. MACKINTOSH had not intended to speak
on the subject, but only rose, lest his silence should
be deemed oncourteotii, alter so many appCid
from the Noble Lord. In the course of his speech
that Noble Lord had said a peat deal on the mo-
tion of to-morrow, but little on that of this
night. He had addressed his observations to that
which he expected should be made, and with_
holden them from his own, He (Sir James
Mackintosh) had already expressed his intention
not to open any thing which he should have to
say before the moment when his 'Holton should
conic on. He should not, therefore, follow the

• •
NoLle Lord throtigh all the anticipatioM
he had taken of that Motion, Unless he shOulti
be able to show sufficient groundS to Satisfy the
House of the propriety of adopting his proposi-
tion, it would of course he rejected. But he
trusted that he should be able to establish those
grounds. lie should now merely state the ex-
press words of his motion. It wool 1 be for a St:lect
Committee to consider so much of the clintin.l
laws as related to the punklooent of felons, As to

the admonitioos ►vhich the Noble Lord had ad-

dressed to him tint to excite the passions or the
lower orders, he should say nothing, but that they
were wholly needless. If he had the power, lie
would nut endeavour to inflame any passions in a
question like this, which detnanzled the c.dniest
consideration. He condemned such attempts as
heartily. as the Noble Lord ltin►self. Neither in
this, nor in any other case, should he deviate
into a course inconsistent with the laws of his
country, which he should never cease to admire.
Of this he thought he could give no greater proof
titan the motion which he intendrd to bring to-
morrow before the House.

Mr. LAWSON supported the propriety of trust-
ing to one. Committee alone the investigation of
subjects which were so intimately
.connected as
to render it iurpoisible tollivide them without in-
juring the results of the inquiry.
Mr. BENNET enumerated the different import-
ant subjects into which it would be necessary that
the Committee should inquire, and contended that
the Noble Lord bad embarked the House 'in a
Voyage of Discovery, in which there was no
chance of success. Not only one Session or one
year would not be sufficient to carry so compli-
cated an investigation into etfect, but even a whole
Septennial Parliament would be too short a time.
The statutes alone belonging to our criminal laws
amounted to 758. As to the project of the Noble
Lord to form a new Botany Bay, the House
ought to recollect the expence.

Lord CASTLEREAGH explained that he bad only
started the question whether Botany Bay had nor
outgrown its purpose, and whether it would wit
be proper to torn' some other establishment more
fit for the object in view, nearer home 211 d at less
expence.

Mr. WYNN objected to the appointment of a
Committee with so very large. a 'scope. How did
the Noble Lord propose to carry on the investiga-.
lion of the multifarious subjects .submitted to such
a body ? By subdividing it into different branches.
Then let the Honse appoint'her own Committees
for that purpose, and keep the power in her own
hands. Having sat last year on the Committee for
inquiring into the State of the Prisons of the
Metropolis, he was fully aware how extensive such
investi4ations would prove. It had scarcely been
possible to. go through that to which he had
alluded in the contme of a whole year. It would
be equally impossible for one Committee to carry
thaCnow proposed in-the course of a whole Par-
liament. Even the motion which was announced
for to-morrow, he thought should be snlimitt ed
to a Committee of the whole House, instead of

one up stairs.
Mr. Ald. WOOD contended that the Noble Lord
had wrongly attributed the great increase of crime
to the individuals who had been disharged from the
Navy and Army. lie bad had more opportunities
than any one to examine their conduct, and many
had come before him for whom he had to provide.
as paupers, but not as criminals. Not one in
seventy or eighty had been charged with any petty
offence. He thought the increase of crimes arose
principally from the crowded state of, the jails,
'where sometimes 100 convicts were locked up for
months together in complete- idleness before they
were transported. Much harm •also arose from
no provision being made, although, the law re-
luired it, for passing to their parisheS those ‘vho
were set free at a general gaol delivet!,,,, and who
were Ours in some measure compelled to return to
dishonest practices.

Mr. Box TON thanked the Noble Lord for the
handsome manner in which he' had spoken of
him, and regretted that it .ruight appear ungra-
cious iu him to notice a misrepresentation nt his
sentiments into which the Noble Lord bad fallen.
He had never niliutained, as the Noble Lord had
asserted, that the state of the gaols was exclu-
sively the cause of the increase of
.crimes. That
was a conclusion which he thought unwarrantable
as well as the Noble Lord. But he had stated,
and be now repeated it, that the.abominable states
of those gaols was one of the great causes of that
increase. He still thought our prisons the nur-
series of vice and crime. Critne, like other arts,
required instruction, and our prison's were the
schools .where that instruction was given. Flow-
melancholy w,s the fate of a boy confined in such
receptacles! He might have had an inclination to
idleness—Lyoti-place hint where he has nothing ti;
do He might have been fond of bad company
yon throw him amongst the v..oist) He might have
committed. a. petty, larceny--and you resign him
to those who will teach him to. rob more boldly
and successfully. His 'companions become his
tutors. He longs to rival that renown which in
the company of rogues :belongs to the most suc—
cessful violator of the taws, Industry and labour
grow irksome in his e yes, and he prefers what he
is taught to consider an easy mode of lite; be be-
comes a villain, anii, what is worse, he is made so
by the public institutions of your country. If the
present investige.tion was carried on properly, it
would discover 'many facts 'which would leave all
statemeßts DLL: the present in the back-ground..
The motion was then agreed to, and the fol-'
lowing neuabers appointed to form the Com-
mit! cc

Lord CastL.reagli, Sir J. Mackititofli, Mr. Canning-, Mr.
131:bughain, •Mr. Buxton, !Sir. Bennet, Sir Scutt, Mr.
Orotheroe, I.ord Binning., Mr. W ilberforce, Sir Win. Curtis,
Serjeant Gapley, Sir J. Newport, Sir Nichull, Sir Pig-
gott, the Attorney-General, Mr. Vesey Fitzgerald, Mr. Clive,
Mr. Ashton, Mr. Stuart Woaley, Mr. Wilmot.
On Lord CASTLF.UFAGH'S Motion it was then
ordered that five should be a quorum, 'that the
Committee should sit notwithstanding acv
acl-
jonrit'cncut of the House, and that it should have
the rimwer of calling for papers and evidence,
of adjourning from place to place, and of re-
prerting to the House from time to time.
Mr. Alderman Wool) then moved. that the Re-
f port of the Cuuiiuittee on the Gaols of the Mc.

tropolisiast rear ue teferred to the present Coraa
not tee, wilicit Was agreed to.
TANK OF ENGLAND.
rsT7. CAT,LAGHAN rose to move for an ac-
count of all Park notes and post bills in &-
ciliation for each day, from the 25th of ,January
to the Ist of March, 1819. Ile s.:id that 1:k
intention in moving for this account was, that
it might show the cause of the extraordinary
depreciation in the money market in Lontlon.—
It it appeared thlt the Bank had reduced its issue,,

that might account for the extraordinary depre-
ciation Which had taken place in public sectiri-
ties. But if, on the other hand, it should appeat•
that there was not
.an unusual din:int:jou in the
issues, it wonld tend to remove an imputation
from the Bank of its, endeavoming to out
its accommodations to the mercats,ile eommuni!y
Frith an illiberal and contracted _hand. it the
present state of things affected only funded pro-
' perry, it would tend to remove the alarms now
vrevaililig as to that species of property, But he
thought that the present state of threaten-
ed much injury to trade in general, and lie thong ht
that any that;; which the Chancellor or the .Ex-
chequer might think he could with safety state ou
this subject would have a very trangnillizing ef-
fect. It was probable that some time, most daPc
before the Report of the Secret Committee could
be presented ; bnd in the mean time it would.
be very beneficial if any assurance was given to
the public, that in the transactions with the Bank
no measure would be adopted tending. to the
further reduction of the issues, tiil the Report of
the Committee was presented and discussed its the
House.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER expiessed
himself much obliged to the Hon. Gentlem.n for
making this motion, as it atfoided him an oppor-
tunity of giving SCHDC exp!anation on a subii•ct of
considerable importanco.. Tile actual aTuount of
issues by the Bank, instead of being materially
reduced, stood much higher than they hud been
on die 25th of January. Exaggerations mis-
representation prevailed to a great extent on this
point ; but it would be expedient to defer any
11111 discussion of the subieel till the Report of
the Committee was presen,e.l. It was vet y im-
portant that this Report should not be hutried,
but well considered. 'Dien, was only one case in
which it - would have been justifiable to have au
immediate Report ; and that was, if it had been
thought neessary that cash payments should be
resumed Ott the 25th of July.. He hoped, how-
ever, that vih:n the Repart was presented, and
the subject discussed, the country would recover
from its present alarm, and trust to the wisdom
of the House, without supposing that any preci-
pitate or ill-advised measure was in contempla-
tion.

Mr. ELLICE said, that great alarm had cer-
tainly prevailed, especially Iron, the report of the
reduction of its issues by the Bank., He must
acknowledge that inofe was expected from the
Bank than it could perform. He wished to know
what part of the snot due to the Bank had been
paid by the GovernMent during thepresent year ?
The CLIANCELLO'II'ot the EXCIIEQUER said, he
had no difficulty in stating that no repayment had
been made to the link this year. The debt
stood at whont 5 millions. Last year iTivision had
been made for the repayment of eight millions, but
in stick a way as left the amonlit itucvrtain, as the
Loan was transacted in such a way that part was
to he taken in money, mid part in Exchequer
Bills, and the proportions could not be exactly
foreseen—as it turned out the larger proportion...—
Adjourned.

LONDON JOURNALS.

FROM THE 'MORNING PAPERS OF TIIIS D.Y.

[The Times.]

The Spanish Government has engaged thirty
transports trout different Ilerchants of London,
to form part of the Expedition preparing at Cadiz,
to carry out troops to niitti America. An ad-
vance of hire and pay tor two months is made im-
mediately., and tor one mon;ii more when the
vessels arrive at Cadiz. Insurances to any port
in South America are effected at 7 Or 8 per cent.

WOOTTON-BASSY,T ELECTION.—The three'‘vo.
nien, Ann Hail, Martha Stoat, and Sarah Greed-
away, wl:o were on Friday night ordered to ha
taken into custody, for neglecting to attend tlau
Coinmittee nn the Wootton-Basset Election, were
yesterday alleged, and conveyrd to the prison
rooms in the Mouse. of Coinnions. One of them
is 74 years of age, and the two olic.s are be•
youd 6O.—(lbid.)

Morning Chronicle.]

The accounta. from Manchester and Liverpool
are very favourable. At the former there have
been sonic forced sales of cotton, at a low price,
`but no failures that we hear of, nor do we believe
any are expected. From Manchester the ac-
counts are highly favourable. The manufacturers,
we are assured, are going on moat prosperously,
and no failures have taken place.