The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-23 00:00:00

/~ `l~ ~~

~,TIIE SU IN, I, 0

Algiers girl the French Coceul was of a trifling nature
What was the origin'of that between -Franca and
Morocco ? That Alel-el-Kader, the hero of the desert,
had iought tefege in the entintey oF the Emperor; having
been driven from his own deminiens ; the Arabs of that
nation, feeling. Viecombinedinfluence of nationality and
religien, cherished him, and this was the casks belle. But
had they not reason to 10. k a WI caution on the slia.loes
which events were casting before them, and by which
the Mediterranean was now darkened ? It was manifest
that . the same course would be pursued ia Morocco
regarding Our commerce as was is-nestle in:Algiers, if the
'FrenSh gained posse :siert over it.—(Hsar, hear:) 'Mr.
MnSregor, in the second volume of his statistics, gave the
strength and power of Morocco, and the commerce of this
country with it. England, in 1839, exeorted. to MO.;
Cocci 299,0001. 163 English vessels were, in that year,
employed in the exportation to Morocco ; whilst in that
same year, only 12 of their vessels were engaged in the
same trade. He did net ask the English tinvernmerit
to question the policy of. the French ; but he wished to
understand what precautions or stern the British Go-
vernment had- taken, end whether our farce in the
Mediterran, an was equal to what it was on former occa-
sions, when it weakness was made the abject of cee-
nue. In 1838, the Dube of .Wellington, whose author
cityNa; great on naval as well as ,on military questions,
pee more nut terra, being in opposition, said the fleet
was net suilicient. He (Mr. Shed) naturally looked to
what the state of the British fleet in 1838 was in the
Mediterranean :—ships of the line 18, frigates 29, sloopi
39, brigs 29, wan steamers 22. The Duke added that
there should be a t quadron ready for any emergency ; and
the present Prime Minister of England expressed himself
in a similar efl'ict. What 'was the state of the British
navy, in 1841, when the Whigs left office ? It was as
follows :—Ships of the line, 26 ; frigates, 36 ; sloops,
40 ; brigs, 37 ; armed steamers, 22 ; other war vessels,
36. Now let them compare the state of the navy in
3841, When the Whigs left office, with what it is in
1841, when the Tories are in :—Ships of the line, 9 ;
frigates, 32 ; sloops, tale brigs, 31 ; armed steamers,
32 ; other vessels, 10. What was the answer the Go-
vernment returned in the other House of Parliament
when asked why there was act a greater naval force in
the Mediterrenean, there being !'eur French ships of the
line and frigates capable of containing 12,000 men
there ? The Earl of Haeulington replied that unfor-
tntattely a coneentration of navel force was required on
the coast of Ireland, 'He did not contend with the Earl
of Haddington who had beets transferred from the care
.of the Orange flag to that of the Union-Jack. He did
net complain of Lord Haddingtee's desire to keep a
strong force in Ireland ; but he. exclaimed against the
policy which perverted the affections of a people-who,
under different treatment; would be a bulwark of strength
instead of a source of weakness.--(Hear.) He would say
nothing against the French, who ware a noble, high-
minded people ; nor against that Minister of. France,
who was even pre-eminent .ftmong those gifted men by
whom he was surrounded, not only for his great genius,
intelligence, thought, and writings, but for honour and
'honesty.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman
then vindicated the conduct of Lord Palmerston. who, it
was said, had compromised the ..interests of England.
lie was happy to witness so much profession of diplomatic
•eittlearment, but he could not discover that anythine
material had been gained. On the contrary, it would
appear that the right of search, which had been once
conceded by M. Gnizot to this-country, had been recently
withheld ; for had not British I.OWe-flee been lot in
Spain ?—had the Escurial become an appurtenance of
the .. Tuileries ?—(Hear, hear)—and in barbarious
',Stites. had not the power of. England been reduced to
the " vartisliing point ?"—(Hear, bear.) He had done.
The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by. moving for a
return, show; %t: the amount, of British ships in the Me-
diterranean in July, 1844, and also that the new scale of
duties imposed on English shipping and English manu-
facture s in Algiers be laid on the table of the House.
Sir C. NAPIER' seconded the motion.
Sir R. PEEL commenced by saying that he would not
observe upon the expressions of regret of the Right
nom Gentleman, who taid he felt himself compelled by
a sense of duty to brie; forward the present motion.
He did not think it Was at all prudent in the Right Hon.
Gentleman to bring forward the motion at a time when
they were doing 'all they could to prevent any hostile
collision between France and Morocco--anything which
might be injurious to the integrity of MoroccO, or com-
promise the political or commercial interests of the
country. He must say that the discussions in this and
the other House of Parliament had, by exciting the
feelings of the people_ of the two countries, greatly im-
peded the efforts of the Governments of France and
'England.—(Hear, hear.) He would not of course im-
pute to the Right HOnourable Gentleman any desire to
stir up those feelings of enmity, or embitter animo-
sities. He must of course acquit the Right Honourable
'Gentleman, but he must say that no course was more
calculated`to promote those evils than that which the
Right Hon. Gentleman pursued.—(Hear, hear.) 'The
Right Hon. Baronet then alluded to the terms of the
original motion, which he supposed the Right Hon.
Gentleman had changed in consequence of his (Sir
Robert Peel's) observations, on Friday night,
on the extraordinary nature of that -motion. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had moved for a Select Committee to
inquire under what circumstances the French had be-
come possessed of Algiers, and how far the extension of
French conquest was consistent with the interests of
this country. Why, what would be said in this country
if Select Committees were . appointed in the French
Chambers to inquire how far our conquests in Hong-
'Kong were consistent with French interests.—(Hear,
Nan) The Right Hon. Gentleman then explained the
nature of the communications which had taken plane
12. tween Lord Stuart de Rothesayrd the Princ
_de
Polignac on the invasion of Algiera
Charles the Tenth, in
assur-
ance to the English Atlhinister, afierthegasvuecc
which the Princey the French under
feuslsl
c t,
French arms there, at acquisition of territory was
not the Object of French invasion,. but redress for an
injury, and there was every reason to place the fullest
credit on that assurance. In July, 1830, the Bourbons,
"(1 the Conservative Government which went
out of office a few days after, at once re-
cognised the Government of Louis Phillippe.
A new dynasty was placed on the Throne with the good
grill of the French people. - The continental Pewers were
wavering as to the course, which they should pursue ;
trod this country seeing that the will of the French
people was unequivocally expressed as to the change of
dynasty, gave an example. to the continental Powers, and
recognised the change which took place. The Right
Hon. Gentleman would advise them to take that oppor-
tuni y of °Wei Lag satieitctory explanations from France
with regard to .A.Jgters. Communications had passed on
that subject bet Ween the British. and French Govern-
ments after that event. Lord Aberdeen moved for the
correspondence in the House of Lords in 1832,. when
Lord Grey wa# at the head of the Governuient, but, at
tthe request of Lord Grey, he withdrew his motion, On
the 15th of November, 1830, Lord Grey came into office
svith both the Noble Lords whom he saw opposite. They
were ie possession of power for eleven years ; they bad
all tie facts before them ; and yet they acquiesced in
the military oceusiation of Algieee by the French,—
(Hear, hear.) N remonstrance wag spade against that
occupation. They stated that "if the eon...pest:3 of the
French in Africa were limited to the territory a Algierst
it would not endanger the harmony and goed understead•
ing which existed between the British and French Go-
vernments." He did net mean to blame the late
Government for that, seeing how desirable it was
tJ maintain the government of Louis Phi-
lippe iu France, • and that the demand for
fulfilling the engagements of Mons. Polignite would ex-
cite irritable feelings on the part of the French people.
But did not the aequiescence in the possession of Algiers
by the French, for eleveygyears, make the greatest diffe-
rence in that question.—(Henta /PATO And the late Go-
vernment had not;e:e of the intention of France to keep
possession of Algeria, s for, in answer to a esnestion put
by Marshal Clan-el to ;Marshal Soult, in 1888, in the
French Chambers, Marshal coult said that the French
Government were in favour of the colonisatien of Alge-
ria ; that up to the present moment they had not the
slightest intention of evacuating Algeria, end that the
whale course of their conduct showed that they contem-
splateii its permanent occupation, and that they had
nothing to fear from any one who might meditate their
disturbance. The British Government were, therefore,
aware of the intentions of France as to the retention of
Algeria, and yet they made no remonstrance against
it. But, considering the position of Louis Philippe,
he did .not thialf the Government of Earl Grey or Lord
Welhourne had acted unwisely in agreeing in the occu-
• spation of Algeria. They made no remonstrance, and
their Consul now, as formerly continued, to act under
eu exequatur. The Right Hon. Gentleman then re-
ferred to an ordinance of the 16th December last, im-
posing a duty on the introduction of British goods, and
• ',imposing discriminating duties with regard- to British
end French ships. This ordinanee was not directed
against British ships in particular, but against those of
all other nations ; but the Right Hon. Gentleman said
that the important thing oas the principle of rnance. But he would prove that was decided long be.
fore,
Mr. SHEIL—In 1835.
Sir ROBERT PEEL—Yes, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man did not allude to the ordinance of 1835 in his
speech.
Mr. SHEIL—They are two distinct facts.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said he admitted the ordinance
of 1,543 was more important, but as to its wording and
. the principle involved, it was the same as the ordinance
of 1835, He -deeply regretted the exercise of this
:fewer by the French, and that regret had been signified
to the French Government.—(Hear.) Then the Right
Gentleman paid a great compliment to the
Bing of, the French and the French people ;
and lie said be Was afraid the same course
would be pursued with regard to Morocco which was
pursued with respect to Algiers. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had a great advantage over him in this respect.
He could not speak his opinions with that latitude and
freedom which he could indulge in with regard to inter-
nal politics. for after the experience of the last Six
weeks he found that be could not do so without pro.
yoking feelings amongst the French people, and sub-
jeeting the French Government to taunts that they were
mere instruments in the hands of die British Govern-
Anent, and subjecting them to such accusations as the
sight lion. Gentleman had directed towards the British
tioverement.—(Hear, her.) But they had public de,
teams-eons made in the face of Europe, and if they were
oel 0 eeejl—if there was no relesee for national honour
---treaties would have very little effek-it, Declarations
ha been madei,the face of Europe by the FrAttph Go-
vet 'meat fielder esa what had been notified to tte
British. Goveromenn. that: the French had • no desire to
ITOtted to hostllities—that 14.ey were most anxious
bti eaaintain peace,-and lad no lierieringl cause of war
or conflict with Meese-no, He saw lay dip. Right
Ho'n. Gentleman that he distrusted these statetneitts.
After the elaborate compliments which he had paid to
the King of the French and to the French people, he did
mot think he ought to sneer at those declarations, The
light lien. Gentleman seemed desirous of maintaining

his popUlarity with the French people when he next
visited Paris, without losing his patriotism in the House
of Commons.—(Laughter.)
Mr. SHEIL —I did not sneer. I said nothing.
Sir R. PEEL knew that the Right Hon. Gentleman
said nothing, but the Right Hon. Gentleman was natu-
rally so eloquent, that a shrug of his shoulders or a
sneer on his face was as expressive as language from an-
other.—(Laughter.) Monsieur Guizot had declared in
the French Chanibers that the French Government had
no views of conquest with regard to Morocco—they
had no views of territorial aggrandisement, as the terri-
tory of Algeria was quite sufficient for France. He said
that they disclaimed cherishing any views of the sort, but
they merely demanded from the Emperor of Morocco
that they should live in peace and their frontier be
secure. They demanded that the assembling of troops by
the agents of Morocco or Abd-el-Fader should be pre-
ventei, that those officers who, contrary to the rights of
'nations, httd attacked them, should be recalled and
punished, and that if the Emperor of Morocco were de-
sirous of giving an asylum to Abd-el-Kader, he should
be directed to repair to the interior or to the
tea-coast, and that a fixed residence should
be assigned him, and that guarantees should
be given that from a friendly state he would not direct
his-attacks on another friendly state. Such were the
intimations given by the French , Government in the
most frank and unreserved manner.. The Right Hon.
Gentleman hod adverted to the state of their naval force,
and taunted them with their leaving it neglected. There
was no doubt, that seeing the revenue of the country was
insufficient to meet the expenses of the country, they
thought it right to husband thespublic money as much
as possible ; but he thought that they had not neglected
the exigencies of the public service. In 1838 (he was
now speaking of grants for the efficient service
of the navy, discarding the estimate for the packet ser-
vice and the revenue service)—in 1838 the estimate for
this effect of the naval service was 3,085,0001. Last year
it was 4,400,0001. The estimates for the last four years
had been larger than for ten years previous, though it
was true they had not maintained the same number of
ships in commission. Yet this country would be enabled
in a short period, and with the consent of that House,
to make a naval demonstration worthy of its great fame
as a naval power. They had voted 33,000 seamen and
marines. When the naval estimates -were under consi-
deration, the Gallant Commodore opposite said that
though there was a number of ships in. commission in
the Mediterranean, they were not properly manned. He
said this to shew that the number of ships in commis-
sion was not a proper estimate of naval strength.
They might have a comparatively small number of ships
in commission, well manned and appointed, and yet
they might be more strong in naval power if they had
had more ships, but.not so effectually manned. The Right
Hon. Gentleman called for an account of the fleet: he
hoped no Hon. Member would second him on such a
motion. He had now stated all that he considered it ne-
cessary to say with respect to the motion of the Right
Hon. Gentleman. He had attempted to show, that if, in
1341, they acquiesced in the continued occupation of
Algiers by France, they had acquiesced in consequence of
the course of society, and in consequence of the preced-
ing acquiescence of their predecessors, which he did not
blame; but, in giving that acquiescence, it
was expected that France would state that
it would not extend its conquests to Tunis or Morocco.
That declarati 'n had been made. The Noble Lord must
recollect that this question of Algiers had been discussed
when he was Foreign Secretary; and if he (Sir R. Peel)
appeared rather backward in giving information on this
subject, it must be remembered that he was only fol-
lowing the example that had been set him by the Noble
Lord. He was of opinion that it would be inconsistent
with the duty of a Minister to give up any corre-
spondence that had taken place between this Govern-
ment and that of Morocco on this subject. He trusted,
upon consideration, that the Hon. Gentleman would
allow the motion to be negatived. If he (Sir R. Peel)
had spoken with reserve on this question, he hoped the
House would consider the difficulties in which he was
placed. He had been anxious to avoid the expression
of any opinion which might tend to -diminish the autho-
rity of this country to maintain an honourable peace.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that so far as his own
views and intentions were concerned, he should not have
made any motion on this subject, and considering the
present state of affairs with respect to France and Mo-
rocco, he would have waited before he asked for further
information from the Government. He thought, how-
ever, that as his Right Hon. and Lsarned Friend had
judged it expedient to make the motion, it was but jus-
tice in him to state that nothing could be more tempe-
rate than the motion, and nothing more guarded than
the language that had been employed. He thought the
Right Hon. Gentleman had misunderstood his Right
Hon. Friend on this subject. His Right Hon. Friend
had made a statement with regard to what took place in
1830 as to the occupation of Algiers, but the Right Hon.
Gentleman said now, was it intended, that having been
out of office since 1841, they should now insist
upon the evacuation of Algiers ? The Right Honourable
Gentleman was an abfe debater when he had to deal
with substantial Arguments, but, singular to say, when
he had to deal with shadows he employed greater force
than with substantial arguments. They had never
thought it desirable to make any demand on France
with respect to the possession of Algiers. They had
upon one or more occasions asked for explanations with
respect to future aggrandisements, more especially with
regard to Tunis and Morocco ;- and assurances on that
subject had been given which were considered satisfac-
tory, and those assurances had been renewed. Under
those circumstances he should not have felt called upon
to ask for any further information on the subject.
He thought that the demands made by France
on the Government of Morocco were but
fair. They involved, however, several most im-
portant questions ; and if those demands were
not complied with, then came the question, how the war
was to be carried on ? Considering the complexion
affairs bad taken, he was not disposed to ,press the Go-
vernment as to their policy on this subject. There was
a party in France that had a blind partiality to war, not
I from anyhope of keeping up the dignity and honour of
France, but merely from a love of war itself. The pre-
sent Government of France had manfully opposed itself
to that desire among its own people, and such being the
case, he (Lord J. Russell) would be the less disposed to
Press upon the Government the making of statements
that might be grating to the French people. While he
would not press the Government to give any answer
with respect to questions on which they might be en
gaged in diplomatic negotiations with France, yet he
thought the Government were not justified in the line
the had taken with respect tonaval defence, It was a very
diff-rent thing to say that the House of Commons should
interfere to control the negotiations with foreign powers,
and to say in what manner the supplies- that had been'
cheerfully voted had been applied by the Minister of the
Crown. The Right Hon. Gentleman had upon this oc-
casion renewed his protest against being asked concerning
the naval force of this country. Why such questions
were consonant with precedent. In the times of Chat-
ham and of Pitt they were constantly put, and the late
Government was constantly exposed to such questions.
Some time since, he (Lord John Russell) stated that he
thought it much better to have a sufficient force ready
than to send one out in cases of emergency, and upon
that occasion he we net by a joke from the Right lion.
Raronet. Was it to be said that the House was to grant
money, end they were not to ask how it was spent ?
For himself' he was one that would not- -con-
sent to such a doctrine. Now, what was the
state of the navy of this country in 1838,
and at the present day? InlB3B, there were eighteen
line-of-battle ships, while in Ju1y,1844, these were only
nine. In 1838 there were twenty-nine frigates, when at
the present time there 'were thirty-two. The total num-
ber of line-of-battle ships in 1835 was one hundred and
thirty-eight, now there were only thirty-sib. If it was
found that ships should all have their regular comple-
ment of men, was it not, he would ask, equally right that
they should have a sufficient number of ships? That
might increase the estimates, but that could - not -be
helped. In OM there were seven line-of-battle ships in.
the Mediterranean. In 1841, seventeen. In 1844, one,
and at the present moment there were only two lineeofs
batle snips iu the Mediterranean. So that, at the pre-
sent inonsept, they had only two line-of-battle ships at
their disposal, New he would put it to any Hon. Mem-
ber whether that was sufficient for every emergency ? In
1838 his Hon. Friend, the Member for Halifax, in pro-
ppsing the estimates for 1839, thought it right to go at
ep~Atkerable length into the subject, in order to show
that there 'as a sufficient 'force at that.times.
His opinimi was opposed by several Hon. Members, who
denied that the ferce was then spfficient If it was rot
. • i
so then, what, he wom.s ask, was the state of things at
the precast moment ? The pr6Nut was a Parliamentary
question, and one which it was competent to Hon,
Members who had voted money away to bring forward.
The complaint was not that the Government had not
taken a sufficient sum as an estimate for the naval force,
but the people having this burden to bear, having these
taxes to pay, ventured to ask if, in return, they had i
naval power sufficient to meet any emergency. There
were other questions he might ask with respect to the
naval estimates, but he should be told perhaps that the
most proper time to do so was at the time they were
proposed. They had perhaps granted them with too
little inquiry, but when they came before the Honse
again they might perhaps have some questions to ask
as to what wasbest to be done with respect to the building
of new ships. It would perhaps be necessary to aals. what
large ships were ready to be brought forward, or reedy to
belaurached.—(Hear, hear.) He should be very glad if
-the Secretary- of the Admiralty would be able to give a
satisfactory answee to this question ; but he had heard
statements which ted hten to doubt very much whether
he would be able to do 44. But with respect to the
question before the HOMO, it was fptOly distinct from
that of foreign negotiations ; at the same time he her
lievssd Ow the objection stated by the Right lion. Pe-
ronet was wall founded—that although there might not
be any. positive 4apger, perhaps hardly any inconve-
nience in granting 41.0. ittiorMation called for, yet it
might be made a bud prePetie4t at another time, when
it might be desirable not to give on euthority e state-
ment of the destination of any particular fore*. That
objection, therefore, applying to any Government, and
any House of expritons, would, he hoped, have weight
with his Right Ilon. Frleprsll and that he would not press
for the production of the inioriess;:on: But he muse say
that, with cggsrd to negotiations, he 5h04.4 p.ot be at all
inflasenced by slay ejamoure that might be raised as to
the Government being indifferent to the national honour.
In England the Gaverom,entt wets charged with neg-.
lecting the national interests an4ll.O4AuF; 6.0 in France
the French Government was eubjecteVt§
ettatrze. He should be disposed to pay but iittie att.el4-
i 600,0 OWS6 statements, nor would they be siAlCicint to
induce him to take ally step to intenere with negotia-
tions that might be pending. Aet with regard to the
position of the country generally, he 'dist 6144; teat
tie attention had not been paid to the state of-the
navy.es--0 Haar, hear," from Sir C. Napier.) He thought
there had been a culpable neglect, and he should wish a
sufficient. force maintained to support the dignity Of the
nation, and to avenge any insult. -

Mr. M. MILNES said be was glad that the`Noble
Lord did not view with any great apprehension the pre-
sent state of affairs in Morocco. •
Lord J. RUSSELL said' what he stated was, that he
Was not without apprehension.
Mr. M. MIEN ES—lle did.understand the Noble Lord
to say, that he did not regard with any immediate fear
the present state of the relations between France and
Morocco ; he, therefore, thought' that he had rested
rather too strongly on what he thought The culpability
of her Majesty's Government as to the amount of the
naval force. The Noble Lord appeared somewhat too
anxious to have the navy put upon a war footing, but he
(Mr. Milnes) believed that- whateier might be the aspect
"of affairs at present, the Noble Secretary of State for. Fo-
reign affairs would be so far equal to his predecessor in
the art of " protocoliSing," as to 'be able to defer that
unfortunate event for a , considerable period. - lie con-
fessed he had seen the notice of the present motion with
great pain; because he thought its purpose might be mis-
understood. It should be remembered that there was a
considerable war party'in France, and it was necessary
for this country to act with some caution, so as not to
excite that party, and thus increase the difficulties of the
French Government. He referred to the occupation of
Algeria by the French, and stated his convic-
tion that it entailed a great loss on the French
people. With regard to. the present operations,
though he should be the. last to treat with
disregard the sovereign virtues, and the religious en-
thusiasm of the native population, yet he felt that the
time was come when they must receive the advantages
of civilization, even if they should obtain it at the hard
price of war. He thought that it was impossible that
the whole of the African coast, bordering on the Medi-
terranean, could any longer be abandoned to these hordes
of barbarians. He hoped, however, that the Right Hon.
Baronet would see that the best course he could adopt
would be to withdraw the motion. And in doing so it
would be well if he would reiterate to the House in the-
strongest terms his assertion that he had not brought it
forward from any hostile feeling towards France, but
from anxiety for the honour of this country, combined
with a spirit of good-will towards our great and generous
neighbour.
Mr. HUME said he was at first afraid that the Liberal
party on that side of the House were about to play the ,
game that had been pursued on former occasions, of
urging the Government into hostilities, hilt
he was glad to hear from the Right 'Hon.
Gentlemen that his motion was not ,so intended.
It appeared to him that the motion, as taken up
by the Right Hon. Baronet, involved two questions •
first, how much they were to expend on their naval
force, and, secondly, how far the 'House was to interfere
in negotiations with respect to the first question, about
which the Right lion. Baronet felt rather toe sensitive.
He thought the more the Parliament knew about the des-
tination and disposal of the navy the better. He thought
the Right Hon. Baronet deserved the thanks of the
country for the reductions he had made, and wisely
made, in the naval establishment. There was a power-
ful war party in France, and a very mischievous one.
Every act of the English Government was turned by
that party to the purposes of excitement. And what, was
more, likely to create that spirit than unnecessary arna-
ment on the part of England? He was always for keep-
ing up a proper force ; but there was this consideration,
that when England armed, all the rest of the world armed
also—when England increased her. fleet, France in-
creased her's also. They would not believe that Eng-
land did it in mere self-defence, but would attribute it to
some aggressive motive. With respect to the motion for
a Committee, he would ask how this country would have
regarded a Committee of the French Chamber, appointed
to inquire into our right to occupy Sinde or the
island of Hong-Kong ?—(Hear, hear.) He thought
England had been too sensitive, and too much disposed
to intermeddle in the affairs of other nations. He be-
lieved the Goverment of France felt the danger of en-
tering upon a war, and with the declaration it had made
that it had no intention of encroaching upon the domi-
nions of Morocco he thought they ought to be satisfied.
He was glad to understand that it was not the intentions
of the motion to increase the feeling in favour of a war;
and that, beyond the necessity of keeping up a sufficient
force to maintain the dignity of the country, the Hon. and
Learned Member was not desirous of going.
Mr. MACKINN€ N. said, as he did not wish to detain
the House from going into Committee, he should ad-
dress to it a very few words, and those would refer
chiefly to the occupation of Algiers by the French. In
this country, even if there were a feeling in favour of a
war, he believed that feeling would be kept down by the
force of the Government. But in France that was not
the case. There there was an immense population; a
large mese of whom had everything to gain and nothing
to lose by engaging in a war, and who were ready to
rush into one at any time, and fur any reason. Under
these circumstances, he considered the occupation of Al-
giers by the French as a good thing for this country.
It acted as a safety valve, which carried off the more
unquiet spirits of France. It served as an outlet for the
discontented portion of the troops of France, which
were exchanged for others more inclined to support the
Government. France was in that position in which she
must have external war or internal discontent. Under
these circumstances, he believed that the occupation of
Algiers was of the greatest advantage to the whole of
Europe.
Sir C. NAPIER could not agree with the Hon.
Gentleman that the occupation of Algiers by France
would be beneficial to this country. He thought the
occupation had, and was likely still further to lead, to
disadvantageous results to this country. France had
repeatedly declared that it was not her intention to
occupy Algiers, but merely to punish the Dey for having
offered an insult to France. This promise, although
often repeated, the Government of this country had
never demanded should be reduced to writing. We
ought never to have permitted France to take pos-
session of Algiers, far less Morocco, which was
of ten thousand times more importance to us: Perhaps
at the very moment at which he was speaking the Prince
tie Joinville was bombarding Tangiers. He thought,
therefore, that they had a right to call upon the Govern-
ment to take steps for the protection of British interests.
The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government
always became very sensitive when allusion 'was made
to the state of the navy. The present state of the navy
had not been equalled for ten or fifteen years past. lie
remembered in the year 1839 the then Government being
attacked in consequence of the navy being in an ineffi-
cient state. The attack was commenced by Lord Col-
chester, and seconded by Lord Hardwick. Now what
was the state of the navy. in 1839 ? We had then 34,165
seamen, boys, and marines, and 21 sail of the line.
What did Lord Melville, who was a very good authority,
then say ? He certainly did not join in the attack on
the ,Government, but he pointed out the necessity of
keeping up a large peace establishment—much larger
than we were accustomed to do in consequence
of the extensive use of steam power, which,
to a certain extent, had destroyed our coast-
ing trade, and thereby rendered it more difficult to
obtain seamen for the navy. The Duke of Wellington
on that occasion said, "Here we have war in Aillericat and
war in Asia, with an establishment that is not even ade-
quate for the wants of peace." The Right Hon. Baronet
himself said that it was impossible to see the exertions
which were being made by France and Russia without
apprehension • it was impossible to exclude those mari-
time Powers frout the consideration of the House. fie
(Sir Charles Napier) would quote one other sagepae
from the Right Hon. Baronet's speech, which w
strange eantrast with the opinions which he held now.
The Right Hon. Gentleman " that if it was then ne-
cessary to have eleven sail of the line in the Mediterra-
nean, and two ships at Lisbon, all he could say was that
sewn sail of the line was very inadequate to protect the
coasts of this country." Yet the language of the Right
there Hon w. Geenrtelemtawnentwya-ix
was Very diffoefrentthenowii.ne,ln
w 184441
a naval estimate for 43,000 Men. In 1843 the Right
Henourable Baronet reduced the naval force to
39,000 men, and the float in the Mediterranean to six or
seven ships. In 1844, the force was further reduced to
36;000 men ; and that was what it remained at the pre-
sent moment. The Right Hon. Gentleman said it was
not, men at all, but ships that constituted the navy.
Why,. the Right Hon, Gentleman might just as well say
that fine barracks constituted an army. lie depre-
cated the system of manning ships with marines, .as had
been done lately with respect to the Caledonia.. He
asked, whether it was a fit state for the navy to be in,
when they found a ninety.two gun ship sent out with
750 men, which was only the complement of an eighty
four gun ship ? There was but one line-of-battle ship
to guard the coasts of this country, and that was the,
Queen, which was fitting at Plymouth. It had taken this"
ship three months to fit—she being at present fitting for
a flag ship. It had been said that we could fit:out a fleet in
six months, Now, iv answer to this, he would just refer
to what had taken place in 1840, Alen it was found to
be of the utmost importance to get a fleet ready of
the Mediterranean. The Vanguard was commie-
sipped in February, and that ship did not arrive
in the Mediterranean until the middle of November.
The Calcutta was fitted opt at the same time, but did
not arrive until December, and the remaining ships in-
tended for the station never arrived at all. Now, he
would ask, whether they could confide in the statement
of the Right Hon. Baronet, when he said he could do
what no 'other Government bad yet been able to accom-
'plish—viz., fit out a fleet in six months? The Vrennh
at the present moment had eight sail of the line in come
naision in Mediterranean—they had alao ships which
y' re piled commission de rode. These ships were well
officered and !permed. The French, too, had fifty-three
sail of the line on the stacks, WNPh was just as good as
their being in the water. He had always lipid, and he
held it still, that the system of commissioning and pay,
ing our ships off was neither wise, politic, nor economi-
cal. The expense of commissioning a ship and payipg
her off was very great. A ship was commissioned for a short
firne, as oppy.si, )p pa jet require, and when the necessity had
posed away, she ».es immediately peid off, and she re-
mainerl in 0r4414ry until aneiher bpPOPII arose, when
they were obliged to go through the same coursp Pyer
again. Now, under such is sy§tera !ts this, how was it
possible for young officers—our lieutenants died mates—
Ip navy to learn anything of seamanship ? They
00ni.4 iv* do it unless they were kept constantly at sea.
One ship had lately eeterped from the Mediterranean,
where she had been ree tbyep. yearti? havin
been stationed at Malta during that
Now could the officers on board such a ship as
'earn anything of seamanship ? As far as the
girenery went no Ceiebt they excelled, but of seaman-
-1 ship they foie* VeYyllittlt. • Tine Road of Admiralty
had lately built six experimental' knigg.` "He had hoped
those brigs tent out in'whieh=young officers had
?eh ;t 41-order to acquire some-experience in then.
1312°1"4"4' trltisshieti4dlitfilfir.rtlire'liarttnAWo7, 14tb:roe03rt; NNl:pi2e
• hoped any..- iniiiieneed by obstinacy=
seemed to be a gooa uee. _ ee...useeent
(Laughter)—would yet honestly come to
fcopru
could
e
navy.
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