The Sun.
London, England, 1810-03-24 00:00:00

ARMY ESTIMATES.

The Order of the Day for the further considera-
tion of the report of the Committee of Supply hav-
ing been read,
Lord PALMERSTONE moved the re-commitment of
the Report.
Sir 'l. TURTON recommended a great diminution
in the military force of the country. By the last
returns on the table, it appeared that there were
93,000 regular troops employed abroad i 210,000
militia (including the local),110,000 volunteers, and
altogether 552,000 men in arms at home. Abroad
there were 122,000 regulars, and 140,000 sailors-
and marines. It thus appeared that the whole force
of the country, naval and military, amounted to
,805,000 men, being a tenth part of the whole male
population, and a tourth of the males between 21
and 50 years of age. He thought that 20,000 in-
fantry and 5000 cavalry might be reduced with per-
le4 safely, by which reductio'n a saving would be
effeded of near a million a year.
'The House then resolved itself into the Com-
mittee.

Lord PALMERSTONE adverted to the returns on
the table of the Staff in the several dist' itts and
stated the proposed reduction of the General Offi-
cers on the Suig. to be as follow the. Eastern
distrid it was vropo,ed to discontinue one Lieute-
nant-General, leaving eight Generals, commanding
twenty thousand men. In the South-west district
it was proposed to discontinue one Lieutenant-
General, and appoint a Major-General in his
'room, one General would there command 4000
men. In the Severn district it was proposed to dis-
continue one Lieut.-General, and the command
would consequently devolve on a Major-General. In
the Home district it was proposed to discontinue one
Major-General, there would remain five Generals
to command 10,000 men. In North Britain it was
proposed to discontinue one Lieut.-General and one
Major-General, seven Generals would then remain
in the command of 1 1,000 men. The difference of
expence which this reduction of the Staff would
occasion was 13,1711. ; as the saving could take
place only from the 2501 of March ; but next year.
it would be 17,0001.--His Lordship next adverted
to a paper on ther, tz.a. spewingibllie,lBos,
whccon the
eras titvaael.y
was
the
s
proportion between the troops and the Staff at three
distinct periods, %
very large, in 1806, when it had been reduced .by
ret
the last Administration, and in February 1810, be-
fore the present reduction had taken place. By"
this comparatiVe statement) it appeared that the
Staff in February last (beforeroioltritron to present reduction)
roop s in
p
was on a lower scale, in proportion
the country, than even in 1806. In 1806 there was
one General Officer to 1,971 men ; in Feb. 1810,
there was one General Officer to 1990 men. From
the 64 Generals on the Stall" in February, 1810, if
the six now proposed to be discontinued were de-
duCted, there would remain 58; or one General Offi-
cer to 2190 men ; a proportion which, under all the
circumstances of the country, could not be consi-
dered' too great. He concluded by moving a reso-
lutiOn, That a sum not exceding 457,7241. be
granted to his Majesty, for General and Staff Offi-
cers, &c.

Sir G. WARRENDER did not consider the proposed
reduclion by any means satisfactory. The Home
District, and Scotland, which had been the chief
subjects of complaint,were to remain nearly the sane
as before. It was with great regret that he was more
and more confirmed in the opinion that Ministers
had not that coutroul over the public expenditure
which they ought to have ; otherwise he was per-
suaJed they would have made a liery different pro- .
position to the House.
Mr. CALCRAFT declared that the proposed re--
duction was a mere mockery. The Most eXtrava-;
gant districts had scarcely suffered any reduction at
all. On a comparison too of the estimates, it ap-
peared to him that the Noble Lord had mis-stated
the saving, which seemed to him to be only 77721.
instead of 17,0001. The Gentlemen opposite found
those in the Staff whom it was beyond their strength
to remove ; and it was well known that if a fat ou-
rite officer took a house in any part of the country
the Staff was made to travel to him.

Lord PALMERSTONE, in explanation, said, that the
first es►imate for the Staff was 470,8961. and the
present 457,7241. making a difference of 17321.

Mr. WARDLE lamented that Ministers toad not
acted in a manner that could satisfy the country. If
the present vote were acceded to, the people would
he wholly out of conceit with the House of 94-

mons. After some observations on the increased
Staif, he proceeded to comment on the appointment
of the Quarter Master General, who besides his pay
in that capacity of 41..5 S. a-cay had 31. 15s. as a Lieut.-
General on the Staff, and two battalions worth at least
1,0031. a-year. The duty of the Quarter Mas-
ter General was after all done by deputy: He no-
ticed the circumstance, that. the Statf and contin-
gent allowances were three years in arrear, a delay
which caused the most serious inconvenience to
many of the Officers.

General Hosea defended the appointments of the
Quarter-Master-General, and Adjutant-General on
the Staff, on the ground of their long services in the
army, the former having been 35 years employed.—
There was also an understanding or bargain with
the Public, that instead of the allowances of 5001.
a-year, they should receive the Starr pay of their
ranks.

General Lorrus, in allusion to what had fallen
from the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Calcraft) denied
that the Staffdistricts were allotted to favour parti•
cular officers, and they were allowed to move about
at pleasure.

General TARLETON, adverting to an assertion of
an Hon. Member, that the Surf and contingencies
were three years in arrear, declared that. the tad was
not so; for that, to his knowledge, they are. never
one year in arrear. With respea to an observation
made as to the cavalry force, he had again to state
his opinion, that any diminution in that force would
not only be unwise and injudicious, bat would ren-
der the country insecure. He deprecated the prac-
tice of sending cav4ry regiments on foreign service
incomplete as to Subordinate Officers; which was the
case in three or four Reginients of that description
sent to Spain. The Noble Lord had stated, that in
attending to fitdifElibir,-- he had taken particular care
of the Severn DistriCt, and had reduced the Lieu-
tenant-General in command there, for which he
(Gen Tarleton) Was much obliged to him. He did •
assure the Noble Lord he was glad to get rid of the
fatigues of duty, bettit the same time he could not
avoid informing the Noble Lord; that instead of re"
duck& •he should have appointed two Generals to
dorthe duty, as the Local Militia of ten counties;
The Volunteers, and the French prisoners in Briitol;
not less than 8000 in number, came under his care.
Reduction might be well applied to the Home Dis-
trict, for there were ten Generals on the Staff, to
none of whom he objected personally; there were
the Commander in Chief, the Duke of Cambridge,
Lord Heatlitield, Sir H. Burrard, &c.
Mr. PETER MOORE was surprised that Ministers
had not noticed the two round charges which the
Hon. Baronet (Sir T. Turton) had made, viz. that the
army which was stated to exist, was not so great in
point of numbers, and that being the fact, they-
were calling for money which they had no right to
call for: It was incumbent therefore on them, as
guardians of the public purse, to answer these
charges. In other times such assertions would not
have been passed by with coolness. It had been
truly stated by a Right Hon. Gentleman on a former
night, that the average expenditure exceeded the in-
come by 21 millions per annum, consequently Oro
country was in a most latnentoble state of distress.--•
This was a circumstance worthy the notice of the
Chairman of the Finance Committee,. w.hom-,the
Hon. Gentleman conjured to come forward With
some system of great retreochment. It was highly.
necessary, for Ministers were like servants just
quitting places, indifferent as to the fate of the
House.

It was then moved, that instead of ;he 800
originally proposed, A sum of 449,0381,1115. tod•
be. voted tor toe Staff of the Army, .'being about
80001. Less. This reduction was proposed on account
of the appointments of the Adjutant and Quarter•
Master-Generals.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER trusted the
Committee would not take it for granted, because
Gentlemen on the other side q the House were
continually talking of the extravagance of the pre-;
sent GoVernmeitt, that therefore the tad was so.-;"
On iha contrary, instead of that charge applying
with any thing like truth, the estimates of the Arnlf
and Staff were reduced from what they were during f
the last Administration. If the country was'burthen".
ed, it was not by the profusion of the present Go-
vernment ; the accounts of his Noble Friend shew"
edelhat nearly two-thirds of the whole Staff were
reduced.

Mr. WHITBREAD thought the Army sustained no
disgrace in 1806, because there was not one ilia
General on the Staff. The Duke. of Cambridge, 10
understood, had 40001. per annum 'tor tiothio.---
Would it be said that that was necessary ? He lea
spoke of the many appointments recently made on
the Staff, condemned the principle of the estimates
as vicious, and concluded declaring it to be his inters'
tion to vote for the amendment.

Mr. FIUKISSON thought it better to pay the
Officers on the Gold Slick out of the public purse
than to place them on the military establishment•
Be concluded by making a few observations
what had recently been said on what had fallen frual
hin► in the course of The preSent Session.
Sir T. TuaroN was surprised at the Hon. Ga'
tleinan's Liking part with his Majesty's Minister°
on suet► an occasion, which he thought inconsistent
with his late professions..

Mr. HUSKISSON, in explanation defended his pa"
litical condikt, as perieetiy cons►stent with his prom
fessions. •

. Captain PARKER thought Government most coat- ..-
petent to decide on the question before the House.
He would, however, at a future d.,y cail their at )
tendon to the situation of officers of the Navy, who
It'd. thought were hardly dealt by at pre,eni.
-'LOrd PALMERSTONE 'ankle an animated reply, and I
refuted the imputations thrown out against him.
After Which a division' took place, when the num% .
bens were—
For the Amendment • - 6t
• Against it • - - 99
Majority —3B
The House adjourned at One o'clock this morning.

1'• t I V, S

QUIS DICIRR, FAT SI:M AUDEAT?,

L 0 D IV ,

SATURDAY, MARCH '24, 1810.

We have made some further extracts from the
German Papers which arrived yesterday. There is
a report that, another new kin6dom is about to bo

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