The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-23 00:00:00

regard the -Sufferings of their fellow-countrymen, that
night would seem to justify those exceSses.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARD was of opinion that all the state-
ments of the Noble Lord tended to bear out the ar-
guments,
Noble
mentrd h
urged byad
said,t
those who opposed the motion.
r
from his own observation, that
the habitations of the poor were, in space and airiness,
superior to those of the agricultural labourers, and that
their' wages averaged ten shillings a head. The Noble
Lord had further testified that in the district, which the
Hon. Member for Knaresborough represented as a Pan-
demonium, the people were far better off than in
agricultural districts. That was the district in which
the Hon. MeMber for Manchester had told them that
the immigrants from the agricultural districts said
that they would prefer transportation to going back to
Buckinghamshire.—(Cheers.) With all these proofs
before it, he hoped the Committee would re-consider
the decision to which it had come, and that they would
so re-coriSider it upon the evidence of the Noble Lord
himself as to what he had seen. All were agreed that
there was a great pressure upon the labouring popula-
tion of the country. He could show an infinitely worse
case in the town which he represented than any which
the Noble Lord had adduced. The children, from stern
necessity, and not from avarice, were compelled to la-
bour from an early age. There was no time for recrea-
tion—no time for education—no time fur moral training.
—(Hear.) It would certainly be better for all classes
if the operatives could earn as much in ten hours
as in twelve. They did not want Mr. Homer to inform
them as to the evils of excessive working. But the
pressure was universal—every one was compelled to
work.—(Hear, hear.) He was the representative of one
of the largest working men's constituencies in this
country, and he said that he knew the evil existed, and
that it could not be cured by an Act of Parliament. He
believed that the proposition of the Noble Lord had
given a great impulse to Chartist principles.—(Hear,
hear, and Oh, oh.) He believed that all the theories
which he had heard in the course of this debate had
been previously advocated in the Chartist press, and at
those meetings where Mr. Oastler and his party attended.
He regretted that the respectable names which were
found amongst the leaders of the party to which he
was attached had lent their sanction to those doctrines
which he had often heard before, but never before from men
who were not too ridiculous to be seriously attended to. The
Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland did not indeed
express an entire concurrence in these doctrines ;
but he expressed a modified concurrence with them,
and the result would be to associate the concur-
rence of many respectable political men in that
House with the names of mere demagogues out of it.
He said afterwards he wished every man to earn as
high wages as he could, and contended that a slight
curtailment of the hours of labour would not affect them
as a class. He (Mr. Ward) must entreat the House to
recollect that the home trade of this country was wholly
insufficient to supply the slightest, iminution that might
take place in the foreign. They were warned the other
night by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peel)
that they had to deal with an export trade
of forty millions, thirty-six of which belonged
purely to the foreign trade of this country; and he, for
his own part, was satisfied that in any new curtailment
of labour that Committee might authorise, it would be
impossible to fill up the gap. They proposed to cut off
an amount of production which was equivalent to seven
weeks in the year; and it had been said by the sup-
porters of the curtailment, that in consequence of it
new mills would be erected, and new hands be put to
work. He (Mr. Ward) very much doubted this.—
(Hear, hear.) It must be recollected they had been
told that this Bill was only the first step in this sort of
legislation, for the Noble Lord (Ashley) and- others,
when appealed to, bad admitted that other branches of
industry would be subjected to the same process.—
(Hear, hear.) Every business which called for their
sympathy and assistance was to have it.—(Hear, hear.)
And then they were told by the Hon. Member for Old-
ham (Mr. Fielden) that eight hours was the proper time
for work—the proper proportion of the twenty-fonr
hours that man should give to labour. But the working
man himself went much further than this, for he
argued for six hours, for four hours, for two,
for one.—(Laughter.) He did not say that
the working people advocated getting a liveli-
hood without labour at all,—but they almost ap-
proached it. They thought and 'argued that the same
amount of wages would in the end be divided amongst
them for a few hours' labour as for fourteen.—(" No.")
Why, he (Mr. Ward) could show evidence of what he
'said—evidence of the operatives themselves, who main-
tained that within three months of the passing of that
Bill they would get the same wages for ten hours as they
now did for twelve, and they calculated on another ad-
vantage, namely, that there would be the same demand
for work as before, and which would call into action
many persons whe now did no work at all. And, if ne-
cessary. they were prepared to require that no person
should work for more than nine, or even eight hours ; for
they said it was better they should be compelled, by le-
gislative enactment, to work those hours only, rather
than have any persons whatever that did not work at all.
—(Hear, hear, from Mr. Ferrand.) Well, then, who would
invest capital under such a precarious system as this ?
(Hear, hear.) No one !—(Hear, hear.) And the con-
sequence would be that foreign capital would step in and
take the trade which now belonged to us. And
as to the working people themselves, they would
ultimately place 'them at the mercy of mere
capitalists, and they would sharpen the competition
which was already too intense.—(l-lear, hear) Nov,.
to reverse the decision which the House came to the
other evening would certainly have its advantages, but
he trusted they should find sense enough in that House
which would induce Hon. Members to do manfully
that which they ought to do. They must combat the
theories now so widely disseminated, not only by indi-
viduals but by the press, and which were really calcu-
lated to reverse all the sound notions which had hitherto
prevailed upon these subjects.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr.
Ward) found the Government accused by those jour-
nals, which usually supported them, with being parties
to the bringing of the Queen's name into contempt, and
with standing between her Majesty and that House
which she so ardently wished to grant, by reducing to
a proper standard the labour of her sex.—(Hear, hear.)
Now, was there a man in that Committee—was there a
reasoning man in the country—that believed the Queen
could do this?—(Cheers.) The dire necessity for labour
over-ruled them all, and their best intentions too.—
(Hear, hear.) If a Committee of that House could
do this, how was it that the Noble Lord, the Member
for London (Lord John Russell) had not attempted
the task during the ten years he had been in office?—
(Cheers.) He then was responsible for all the unneces-
sary toil, and anguish, and immorality which had been
endured for the last ten years.—(Hear, hear.) If he
(Mr. Ward) felt that the House was competent to this
task—if even he could indulge the honest hope of it—
why he would join with the Noble Lord (Ashley), and
go at once, not for a Ten Hours' Bill—for that would
he a paltry pittance—but he would go at once for an
Eight Hours Bill—he would give at once the means of
making up for the misery and long suffering which the
manufacturing operatives had gone through.. That
would be the rational course. But the House must not
stop there. What did they mean to do with agriculture?
—(Cheers.) He (Mr. Ward) knew something of these
matters—he had seen the miserable shifts to which the
labourers had been reduced.—(Hear, hear.) They could
not leave them or their wages as they now were, if they
determined to interfere with the operatives. As to their
power to regulate wages, it was mere nonsense. If they
really wished to benefit operative and labourer they
must ease the struggle for bread. They could do this,
but they would not, fur to their corn-laws they dung as
tenaciously as ever. The Noble Lord sometimes
taunted (not personally certainly), but classes with
a want of humanity, while at the same time
he indulged in what he (Mr. Ward) must be
allowed to regard as a spurious humanity of his
own. Why, he could tell that Noble Lord that a very
large portion of his fellow-countrymen looked with ex-
ceeding suspicion upon him, so long as they saw him
voting for that cruel Bill, which enhanced the price of
every loaf of bread.—(Loud cheers.) There must be no
mincing of these matters.—(Cheers.) He made no accu-
sations personally against the Noble Lord ; but he and
others were not going to stand there to be taunted with
inhumanity by those very persons whose votes in that
House alone occasioned, by the high price of bread, all
those hours of exhausting toil which they affected so
feelingly to bewail. As to married females, the Noble
Lord had made, as he had done on several other points,
great exaggerations. The employment of married fe-
males in mills was extremely small. He believed that
generally they would find in the northern districts of
England married females performing their domestic
duties. For his own part, he should go with perfect
confidence to his constituents, in consequence of the vote,
he should give upon the subject.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir IL INGLIS then rose to address the House. He
believed that never but on the present occasion had
there been an instance of Ministers deriving support
froni their habitual opponents, and being opposed by
those who usually supported them.—(Hear, hear.) The
proposition they were now called upon to affirm was
this—whether they should rescind a solemn decision of
the House to which the Committee had come, after
some considerable debate, and to which a larger ma-
jority had given their support then attended her Ma-
jesty's late Ministers? (Hear, hear.) He recollected an
instance in which a resolution of the House was re-
scinded, but that was with respect to the malt-tax.,
That was during the Government of Lord Grey; but
then 5,000,0001. could not be sacrificed.—(Hear,
hear.) He warned his Right Hon. Friend at the bead
of the Government to consider this question well before
he decided upon the course he would pursue. They had
led thousands to suppose that they would have less
labour, and they must take care how they disappointed
such expectations. He (Sir R. Inglis) had received
statements from Leeds, Brandon, Bolton, Huddersfield,
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whether the Noble Lord the Member for the
City of London should be there, or his Noble Friend
the Member for Dorsetshire, the Bill was, in fact, car-
ried.—(Cheers.) It was useless to suppose, whatever
majority they might get in that House, that when
public opinion was arrayed against them a Ministry
could prevail.—(Hear, hear.) When the Ecclesiastical
Bill was before them last year, he urged upon them that
they could not carry the Bill, end he told them not to
drag their supporters through the dirt, as he was sure a
portion of that dirt would stick to them.—(Hear, hear.)
The opposition to his Noble Friend might be fora mo-
ment successful, but ultimately the present Ministers
would be compelled to come forward with a Bill em-
bodying nearly all the propositions of his Noble Friend.
—(Hear, hear.) And what would be the effect of that?
Why, they would have lost the grace of couicessiong—