The Sun.
London, England, 1817-07-04 00:00:00

l!OU1,1. OF COIMONS.

i.nr,; :NINE o'iservcd, that of the 950 parishes in Scot -
t:d :2)9 had it,,t loath thtir re,pecting the lunatic
fhere appeir..d sor..eiliing. ilke nughgetice, though
tlot and Iry hoped ?hi% notice of it would have a due

Tr, Fast Tridia Naviq-ation Bill was read a :id time.—'rhe
164'1 ey wa, rtlafl a 2d time—The Report of the
Tidia Ship , ters lull W,15 reeeire.d.
in :he rornoitt,e Mr. IVA t.i.Ac proposed some clauses.
wHe:t e,l to. He ( \lr. W.) ohserved, that some
; Litive measure was necessary a loss of 700,0001. was
rrFil •)n =ix Chips.
Irish Fair and N'Tarl;et 'Tolls Bill went through a Com-
and tipe rep' rt was rece;red.

STATE OF NEWFOUNDLAND.
Mr. \l A. TAveoa moved that the Report of
the Co ,'mi•r e on the Newfoundland Trade should
he read ; after which he rose to make his motion.
Ile 1,1(1 nefore nlioned the distressed stete of
New:wood...lrd 'as a matter deservi,tg inquiry. The
eatest tiffieulties existed in the .rade and fisheries.
A!! I.lw and order was suspended, and the greatest
di,o,ders ''Cl' committed even in the capital
Fointer!y the custom was, that when merchants
see' of!, vesse!s to Newfouudland, they sent out
pe t sous to take and cure the fish, and to go
to the Mediterranean and other places,
we•
ld they ret .Iy-fled in the winter to England. Tlie
popnl.tion uf Newfoundland was therefore ,
parati%ely small ; but as trade increased, middle
men. vv ,re introdoeed, who bartercd with what
were called the planers for fi.,h, oil, &c. Since
the to I, rd Bathurst, distresses had
much increased, for which there was the clear
p,idettre Mc At wofid, Mr. Preston, and others.
Lt.-tr,ts snbsequently received gava concurrent
tesiim,,ny of the wretched-condition of respectable
families, iv ho did :rot see even the prospect of
speedy relief the merchants said, • that unless
nt the popnlation was remos'ed, or sup-
ported by Goeernment, the outfits this year
would be very small, and few supplies would he
sent out. He. begged the House to consider that
subjects were for months every year
Firtwin,ted with ice and saow. Some steps mast
be takco to relieve them, as all the terrors of fa-
tninc menaced them. There was no place wherein
the people were visited with such great distresses.
If relief were not now given, it would not be prac-
tie:rlde to afford it three mouths hence: Various
modes of relief lied been sngtfested by different
pet sons. A In e rehaue•of Poole, trading with a
canitiA of 60,0001. lost last year 20,0001. ; and
ex!, ced the continuance of losses. This Mer-
chant stated, that he could not send out more
oid-fit a!-id srpply than was !recess oy for his
own neople, and the hrim4ing them home.—
But u hat was to be done with the population ?
Were 10 or 12.000 people out of a population of
neat- SO 000, to be abandoned to all sorts of
horrors and miseries ? Surely Government bad
the means of sending out some speedy relief. He
would call on Memhers who had the Governor's
despatch CS o her papers, to contradict his
opinion., if they could. The case of extreme dis-
tress was fully established The merchants wished
that the Goerroment would at least remove 5,000
of the population, for they could not find them
emi;iovnient. They could not meet the French
in t ite European markets. The hest fishing parts
of \:ewfotindland had been conceded to France
T+eaty : the French traders were sery active,
BA the ...Frencii. Government exerted itself by
means of booty ies, equal to half the cost and cure
of the fish. Du ies against our own merchants
amounted tdmost to a prohibition. Spain, whom
We had protected with our treasure and blood,
gave her pi out's of gratitude by her duties on
our trade. Murat, when lie reigned at Naples,
levied a duty, wh'rl4 was to go to the
sornitig of slaves at Algiers ; which the . present
E jog; tinith as he was indebted to us, not only had
ept up, hut bad increas. d. Our merchants had thus
to cope with a host of difficulties. He theu re-
ferred to the Report of the Committee, which
stated lie depression of the trade, which required
invest igai inn ; adding, that if no tini, ly aid were
aff,,rded, capital would he withdrawn, and a va-
luable nursery for seamen would be lost. Was
this a trade that should he lost. It was suggested
tliat 2s. hooray should he allowed ; half of which

might go to compensating them for loSsi.s. It
WAS true, that an unusually great number of fish
bad been caught in the last two years; but yet
the merchants had sustained loss. The trade ne-
cessarily required large c pital and extensive con-
nections. Once lost, it could scarcely be restored.
Ihe likes and warehwises would soon be de-
stroyed He wished the report now to be taken
into consideration. If the House agreed with
him, he should move for a bounty of 2s. per quin-
tal. Toe t vremitv of the distress stared every
ho,ty in the face. He begged that the trade and
the starving population might not be neglected
for the consideration of a bounty of 2s. ; and
this merely because the merchants hail made gains
in former times.
the quest'on was then pot on his motion for
a Committee of the whole House, when
Mr. ROBINSON rose, He felt that the greater
part of the alleged distress could_not be denied,
ant that it was a disagreeable thing to object to
any. mode of relief proposed ; btif, in the view he
took of this and similar questions, he felt that be
should ill discharge his doty it he did not state
that he thought the modes suggested unadvised.
1; sv,is suggested that the bounty might be for a
year ; ,but the claims of the merchants must he
folly considered. From the evidence it appeared,
that they looked at a bounty for one year as no-
I ing. '1!“y stated, last year, that the Govern-
ment of France granted a bounty. This was an
unsatisfactory reason for our Aoing so likewise.
We were not to tun a race upon false principles,
with other nations. He hoped the !louse would
not accede to such t proposition. The merchants
wanted the bounty to he co-existent with that of
rrance. What ,vas to he done with sor 10,000
coile when removed? It 5000 of them came from
1, id tud.,were they to he returned there,where every
Lode knew thattne greatest di.tru‘ses prevailed ? In
anada a,id Nova Scotia the last harvest had been
:!ry unrroductive. - Government had said, that if
me" chants world remove 1,000 they would
ti-. 41 them settltpents in Nova Scotia : bii that
rejected ; and .no propositions bad been agreed
to by.:, t.he merchants, who wanted a bounty like
that of Frauec; and the removal of 5,000 by Go-
•erurt;etat. As to the withdrawing of capital, it

‘cas not shilleient to stil'e, that of i a csiiital of

60,0001. a incrc;haut iu one year 105. t 20,0001.
when to a pi evitati year be had cleared a good
(4.41 more than that sum. In fact, during the war,

an artificial fn•ospei ity had grown op in Newfound-
land : and an unadvised measure adnpied 110 A'

- - _
might aggravate the evils tenfold. 'rite know-
ledge of such a system might send a great pat t of
our distressed population to Newfoundland. It
would be preposterous to do so,
1111...1-101,DswouTu stated various particulars of
the distresseo situation of the trade, and read
some parts of the Report in confirmation of it.—
The popnlation was about 80,000 ; the Cistressed
were trout 15 to 20,000, of whom 5000 were Iris;i.
Mr. W. DOUGLAS Ivai favourable to the mo-
tion. All the Committee had done was a recom-
mendation or pledge to go into the subject. At
present it was quite impossible for the merchants
to employ many of the distressed. Last winter
the disorders increased so, that it was itn;.racti-
cable to protect property and order. After various
observations, he concluded by saying, that- the
distressed people must have employ merit it possible,
or else 'must be left to starve.
Mr. CANNING said, although be admitted, to As
great an extent as any one, the wisdom 44 the
generally received principles of political economy
regarding bounties, he thought there were ltrounds
laid in the report sufficient to warrant a ,tight de-
parture from them in this instance. He did nut
think that we should enter int.. a contest w
France in a line of promoting commerce •by
means cortfrsetlly ; bit he confess•
eel that, in his opinion, the report had made
out sufficient grounds for granting a!OilStatlce
for one year, at least to those engaged in this
trade. Lie had himself received suer accounts of
the losses and sufferings of the merchants air! the
inhabitants, that it any temporary aid coal be
given it should not he withheld, titinigh such en-
couragement to one branch of commerce might
seem to contravene the general principle of poll •

tical economy. Ile thought a case had been made
out, which, allowing the principles of hi., Rigtit
Lion. I±tiend (Mr. .) Ito I
.nson) to remain ..ocon-
tratlictcd, called for the interferencr of the tion,r.

Mr. NEwmAN thought that it deserved 'great
consideration, whether Or not a boon,y should he
granted, but believed that there could he no hesi-
tation about the necessi:y of admit) steriog some
kind of relief. The losses of _Cie merchaots had
been great, and they were unable to bo.pport a po-
pulation which had settled in Ne,‘ romidiand
without their intervention ; hut sonic aid should
be extended to them to rescue them trom the
horrors of famine. Ile expressed his thsapproba-
tion of the delay which had been shown in bringing
this subject hetore the Llou,e.

Mr. PROTHERoE thouglit. a very strong (ASV
ad been made out in favour of the present mo-

tion. Humanity, he Contended, lequireld that
some relief should be afforded to the sufferers,
and a heavy responsibility would attac, to the
Government if they neglect. d to the subject
into their serious consideration, and suffered the
matter to pass by, without eltdeaVouriilg to do
some hin4 to 'mitigate the calamitous situation ot
the people of Newfoundland.
Mr. F •LEwis was of opinion, since a call on
thepresent occasion was made on the humarity of
the House, that it ought to be treated as H ques-
tion of humanity, and not as Out ot general policy.
If the (listless was such as it was said to be, it
might be desirable to endeavour to supply a re-
medy by means of a special grant, to he forward-
ed to them in clothes, or in such articles as they
tni4ht stand most in need ot, in their ptesent si-
tuation. He was, however, of opinion that no
distress existed in Newl,nindlai.d which he conld
not plrallel nearer home.s He relniilded the Hoost
of the distress which had been brought before

them by the Hon. Ms!rither for Carmarthen ; the
state of 'lreland was as bad. tlnd that ot Scotland,
he feared, was very nearly the same. These,
however, it liad not been in the power of Govern-
ment to relieve: He entreated the House then to

pause before they took the couise recommended
to them in favour of Newfoundland. At any rate,
he hoped they would not have recourse to the old
nostrum of a bounty on exportation, to take
65,0001. from the pockets of the people of this
country,.to be in the first instance added to the

profits of the merchants.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
nothing could be more - ill judged than the pro-
position for relieving the sufferers by means of a
bounty on exportation. He was sure the suf-
ferers theniselves would not desire such a n.-a-
sure to he adopted. Lie had been surprised at
the assertion in the Report that Government were
bound to support those who had gone to New-
foundland. He begged to ask if Government had
sent them there He denied that they had done
so, or that they had done any thing to justify
such an expectation as had been encouraged, be-
yond holding out a bountiful hand to the sufferers
from the tire at St. John's. That the case might
be a fit subject for the consideration of Govern-
ment he did not mean to deny ; but that it would
be proper to attempt to afford relief by means of
he bounty which had been recommended, was
that to which he could not subscribe. He show-
ed the folly of this Government undertaking to
give a bounty, because such a course had been
pursued by the French Government, and contend-
ed, if such a principle were once adopted, both
countries, endeavOuring to outdo each other in
giving bounties, might exhaust their finances 'in
Useless competition.
Mr. lifititiwo did not think there were many iu the
country who would urge the state.of Finances io
opposition to the sum of 65,0001. being applied to
relieve distress like that which .had now been
brought under the consideration of the House. If
ever there were cases in which bounties on expor-
tation ought to be granted, the present was one
of the strongest that could be imagined. 'Die To-
hey of France in giving bounties, he was of opi-
nion, was suggested, not so much by the value of
the trade itself, as for its importance with a
view to naval strength. In this re; ect he held it
to be of great importance to England. By treaty,
perhaps, the necessity of giving bounties in oppo-
sition to France might be avoided. His aversion
to bounties was such, that, even in a case like the
present, he would not sanction the giving of one,
without first bestowing the most attentive conSi-
deratiou on the subject. As adrauce of muney to

asa ,t (Ile stlffcters was perhaps the only thing that
could lie clo:fe at this time.

Sir T. AcLANH was of opinion the peculiar
claims of those whose .distress had now been
broulzht tinier their consideration, was such as to
justify a departure from general principles in this
patticular case ; when the object in view was to
save 5,000 fellow-creatures front perishing by fa-
n►ine. He would not quarrel with any mode of
relief which the Chancellor of the Exchequer might
prefer, since be objected to give bounties on ex-
portation, but he hoped he would favour them
with an assurance that something should be done.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to
say, the subject had occupied, and would continue
to occupy, the most serious attention of Covet
mein, who were anxious to afford the sufferers re-
lief. In the case of the fire at St. Joho's, they
had shewn they were not disposed to shrink from
the responsibility of attempting to remedy, or at
least to alle%iate the calamity. The same priori-,
pies would be acted upon with respect to the dis-
tress now complainod of in Newfoundland. tVhat
directions might. be sent out he was not at present
prepared to state, but the subject would not be
neglected.

l'Avt.oa replied briefly, and wished to get
the assent 4 Government to an Address to the
'.!:lr me for the relief by bounties.
General GAscottqe wished to bear positively
the extent of the relief itneoded by Government.
The CHNNCELLoR Of the EXCHEQUER repeated
hi. former ohNervatir,ns.

The Hun'e then div.ded on the motion for tak-
ing I.l,e_lleport into considepition—

Ayes
roes .

... 50

The Ittigli•h Siting. Banks B nrtri the Irish
Saving lianks Bill, were severally read a second
time, and or, erect} to he committed to-morrow

Sir H fi NFLL brought up the Report of tl.e
H('lyl►ead Hat hour 1,11, wl►ich was ordered to lie
ou the Table Fuld to he printed.

FINANCE.
Mr. C kICRAFT, in tile absence of Lis Hon.
Friend, informed the House‘l):+t the diseu,sion ()t
itle E.'itianee I)ropoi,io4,s ,voich stood for thii day,
(midi! not come on ttil Weditesthtv
The Ci4ANCELLott the ExcHE4I..TER. said,
the better way would b.: io tnotv, that 'he Order
should be discharged, :Chick oold be oece,sary

likewise with re,pect to at, Friend Of his,
%rho intended to wove it series 'ell counter-propo-
sitions. 11i Loped the Bight lion. Gentlona!'
would be able, on Wedoe,dity, to ruler upon the
disen.sion with comvetnence to himself and advan-
tage 'n the country.
The Order was then discharged, and fixed for
Wedite“lay next.
Mt. BaotiGnEiNl brought tip the Repott of the
Vexation, Art CSIS Bill, which was received, and
the Bill ordered to be read a third time this 0..1.