The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-02 00:00:00

TA. N, LONDON,' WEDNEBDA MORNIN G

of the case, the L,rned G..ntleman would persist in his opposi-
tion. Was he aware that the matter had been discussed in Parlia
ment, and that the Bill had been referred back to them, to go
through the clauses to enable them to report it ?
Mr. CocKauaN suggested that the clauses, if taken at all, should
be gone through sub mod°. The great difficulty, as it appeared
to him, was the crossing of the Severn, and it would be useless for
the Committee to proceed with the clauses, unless some plan should
be suggested by which the Company could obviate that difficulty.
The Committee must be satisfied that the passage across the Severn
could be properly arranged with the Admiralty, otherwise. they
would be precisely in the same position as they were when they last
left the Committee.room. He was sure that if the sufficient
powers could not be obtained an insuperable bar would be pre-
scnted to the further progress of the Bill. The Committee must
feel that they could not proceed unless they were satisfied that the
difficulty which was involved in the resolution they had come to
on a previous occasion could be got over. The only way of resolv-
ing the difficulty was by referring the Bill to the Standing Orders
Committee. The Bill had been before the Committee on the peti-
tion for the Bill, and he believed had also been referred to the
Standing Orders Committee, which was to meet to-day, and if any
diffieulty should arise on the standing orders the entire scheme
must be destroyed. He was aware it had been proposed
that the passage of the Severn should be effected by means of a
tunnel under the river, but no positive statement to that effect had
been urged; and even were the statement correct, before the Bill
could be further proceeded with all the requirements of the stand-
ing orders must be complied with, and it must also be made clear
that the altered line in an engineering point could be properly car-
ried out.

Mr. TALBOT, in reply, said it appeared to bim that his Learned
Friend had fallen into several errors in his statement. It was a
serious mistake to suppose that the Committee were in the same
position now as when they last left that room. The whole matter
had been referred by the Committee to the House of Commons,
and the House of Commons had decided in so distinct a manner
that it could not be left to the suggestion of this or that individual
as to what the course of the Committee should be. The House of
Commons have clearly called upon the Committee to proceed
with the clauses of the Bill, in order that it might be reported to
the House. He could not see how the Committee could do other-
wise than proceed with the clauses, or they would be acting in con-
travention to the express order of the House.

The CHAIRMAN said that it was the opinion of the Committee
that the clauses should be proceeded with. The 21st clause, which
affected thetpassage of the Severn, must be postponed until the Bill
had been before the Standing Orders' Committee.

Mr. DANIEL wished to be heard, in pursuance of a notice of
motion made on Thursday last, in the House of Commons, by Cap-
tain BPrite!cy, to the effect that the petitions of Mr. Cambridge,
Mr. White, Ali. Cothers, and of the Corporation of Gloucester,
against the line of the Sot.h_Wales Railway, be referred to the
ommittee on Group P, and that the several petitioners be heard
ha counsel against the Bill. He wished to know whether he was
C tnpetent to be heard ?
Atter some conversation,

The CLIAIRM AN said it was the opinion of the Committee that
the Learned Couu>el could he heard in opposition to the clauses re.
lating to the passage of the railway across the Sevet n.
The clauses of the Bill were then proceeded with.

The ?.Ist to the '27th clauses were postponed for consideration
t 1 to..no,rrow.

The CHAIRMAN observed that he expected to-morrow morning
all parties who had clauses to propose would be ready to proceed
without delay, and they ~.liou;d in the interim mutually exchanu
clauses, so that no difficulty might he presented.

At the close of the day's proceedings, Mr. D►Vis, who appeared
for Sir T. C. Buvey and the It(v. Mr. Jones, complained that the
overweening influence of the Great Western Company had deprived
his clients of many advantages to which they were justly entitled,
and he strongly reprobated the course which had been adopted by
the promoters of the Bill.
The Committet then adjourned till twelve to-morrow.

A.
CILMOILIDGE AND LINCOLN LINE.
Tll F LONDON AND YORK CRISIS.

The Committee protracted Iheir sitting last evening till a quarter
past six o'clock, in order to give the Counsel for and against the
point as to the validity of the deed of settlement of the London
and York Company, which was raised yesterday by Mr. Hildyard
on behalf of the Cambridge and Lincoln line, an opportunity to
conclude their arguments, and those arguments having been
brought to a close at that hour, the Committee adjourned till
half-past twelve o'clock this day, at which hour a
dense crowd had assembled round the door of the Committee room,
and the deepest and most intense anxiety appeared to be felt by
those interested as to the probable way in which the Committee
would decide, while the question was kept continually passing from
mouth to mouth " How do you think it will be—which way will they
give it ?" At half-past twelve the Committee-room was thrown open,
and they rushed in with such force that the room was crammed to
the doorway in an instant. The Committee were present, and
when all parties were admitted they retired to the next room,
where they remained until one o'clock, and then entered the room,
when

The CHAIRMAN said, I have been instructed by the Committee
to state that they have come to the following resolution—first,
that it is competent for the Committee to decide the point that
has been raised; and secondly, that it is competent for the Corn.
mittee to authorise the London and York Company to raise the
additional sum proposed.
This announcement was received with an ill-suppressed cheer in
the room, and loud demonstrations of approbation outside.
Mr. HILDYARD begged of the Committee to allow him to wait
for a few moments, until some of those who were making a noise in
the room had left for the Stock Exchange.—(Laughter.)
Order having been restored, he then proceeded with his statement.
He said that the Committee having now decided that point adverse
to the Company lie represented, he would new proceed to recapi.
tulate the case he had made out for the Cambridge and Lincoln
scheme, and contrast the merits of it with those of the London
and York scheme. He would undertake to show the Committee
th it the Cambridge and Lincoln line, even having engines of as
great weight as those of the London and York Company, and trains
as heavy, still they would undertake to arrive at the end
of a journey or an equal number of miles many hours
before the London and York trains could, owing to the
superior gradients of the Cambridge and Lincoln line. These
gradients, the Committee would remember, were, for the distance
of 167 miles, not more than I in 300, and fur the whole of the rest
of the tine not greater than 1 in 200, while on the London and
York line they hat' not more than 48 miles having a gradient of
loss than 1 in 2011, and they had in 110 miles a gradient not
flatter than I iii 300 In audition to that, he would show
that the whole of the Cambridge and Lincoln line ran
through a Sit alit level valley the whole way, while the Lon.
don and Yak line had merry heavy cuttings and embankments
and tunnel, re make, %filch gave the Cambridge and Lincoln line
the advantage of being able to arrive at York several hours before
the Loudon and York trains could, though the former had to tra-
erse a journey ot 9?, miles longer than the latter. The Learned
Counsel tiirm frifeectied to read portions of the evidence of his
witnesses as to the engineering oialculties on the Cambridge
and Lincoln line, and contended that they should be re-
garoled as nothing compred to those on the London and
York line, on which, it had been deposed, that
there be 80.000 yards of cutting per mile, besides
many other difficultieN, of which no mason could be aware until
he had ein..meneed eoeriiig into the bowels of the earth. Then
let the Committee remember, also, the fact of the immense amount
of opposition by landowners to the London and York line, and
contrast it with that on the Cambridge and Lincoln line, which
amounted just to one, and that a more trumpery opposition which
he would scarce notice beyond a single observation or two.
He begged of the Committee to look at the gigantic scheme of the
London aid York Company, which could not be completed in less
than three years, even supposing the contractor had his
own way in everything, while the Cambridge and Lincoln
line could be completed in eighteen months, owing to
the superior facilities the nature of the country afforded. With
these observations he would leave the case in the hands
of the Committee, confident that they would
be guided
in their decision only by that which should 51.
pear to them to be most beneficial to the public service.
The Learned Counsel having concluded his observations upon the
general merits of the two cases, then said he would proceed to deal
with the respective merits of other competing lines, and then he
would address himself to the traffic evidence he had elicited, and
show how superior it was to that of the London and York.
The CHAIRMAN intimated that the Committee would not sit later
than four o'clock, at which time the Learned Counsel stopped, and
said he would resume his address to-morrow, and the Committee
then adjourned.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.
MONDAY, JUNE 30.
The following Bills were read a third time, and passed :
Wear Valley Railway.
Middlesbro' and Redcar Railway.
Cockermouth and Workington Railway.
Edinburgh and Northern Railway (No. 2.)
Preston and Wyre Railway Branches.
W akefield, Pontefract, and Goole Railway.
Scottish Midland Junction Railway.

The Lords' amendments to the following Bills were agreed
to :
London and Greenwich Railway.
North British Railway.
Belfast and Ballymena Railway.

NOTICE GIVEN AT THE PRIVATE BILL OFFICE.
Select Committee on Group (K.) adjourned till Tuesday,
July 22, at twelve.

WESTMINSTER. HALL.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.

SIR,— The writer in your paper of last evening about
Mr. Barry and Westminster Hall is labouring under a
mistake, or wishes' to lead others into error, by stating
that the large window at the south end is the work of
the eleventh century. It is true, or allowed to be so,
which is much the same now, that the hall was founded
by Edward the Confessor ; but for the present edifice,
unless it may be a part of the foundations, we may give
our forefathers, in the reign of Richard 11., the credit.
You may possibly think ine rather officious, and not any
assistance; -but I am induced to write these few lines that
a good cause (if you should have occasion again to refer
to the subject) shotilfi not appear as a matter of great
xa,,igeration by a mistake in the date of four hundred
ears.

I fear we. shall soon have to deplore the loss of the

iouth end of the' hail, which I know, in the architect's
iesign, is doomed to destruction.—l am, Sir, &c.
June 26, 1845. ZACCIIO.

TO THE El)] TOR OF THE SUN.

you permit me to direct your attention to
allusion in your ieadinft article of last evening, which,
ii'uncorrected, may possibly lead to misapprehension.
You say that Mr. Barry has encroached considerably
on the water way.of the river,. and imply that the
ien-
croachment
s, permasent. Now it is but fair to that
gentleman to say that the present projecting platform is
only temporary, and forms the site of a range of work-
shops, for w hien no othe-r room could - be found in tee
vicinity of tne and that the walls of the " New
Palace" will be washed h%- the waters of the river.
In the same article I tint! the remark that the sun-
light of nearly eight eenturks has streamed Cirough the
window ,of Hai`. I think two minutes'
inspection ref the window nievrosi to will convince you
that it is in the style knoo,n among architects as the
" Decorated Gothic," a mode of building not known,
and certainly not adopt. d, till the latter part of the four-
teenth or beginti,g of the fifteenth century. I depend
on your impartiality, and on the sincerity of your desire
to be in the right, and to ascertain and promulgate the
truth even in the smallest matters, fur a favourable in-
terpretation of my bold but necessary strictures.
I am, tiir, &c., p.

June 26, 1845.

[Hume, in his history of William Rufus, says:—
"The monuments which remain of this prince are the
Tower, Westminster IlaN, and London-bridge, which he
built." We prefer the authority of Hume to that of Mr.
Barry's friend " Zaccho," but regret that the must give
him implicit credit, for he only confirms our suspicions,
when he states that the south end of the flan is
" doomed to destruction." It is extremely probab:e, as
stated by " Delta," that the south window has been re-
constructed, and consequently the light of nearly eight
centuries has not streamed through the same glass, bgt
that is not material to our purpose.—Ep. Sun.]

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, July 1.
Their Lordships met soon after Five o'clock this evening.
CORNWALL RAILWAY.
Lord FALMOUTH presented twenty-five petitions in
favour of the Cornwall Railway.
NORTH WALES MINERAL RAILWAY.
Lord BROUGH AM presented a petition from Mr. Whaley,
of Sergeant's-inn, barrister-at-law, against the North Wales
Mineral Railway.
GRANTING LEASES BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
RAILWAY BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord BROUGHAM moved the adoption of the three fol-
lowing resolutions:-
1. That any Bill which is included in the second class,
under the standing order of the 16th of August, 1838, and
which shall be before this House in the present session, but
shall not pass for want of time, shall be marked by the Chair-
man of Committees, and shall be proceeded with in the ensuing
session, if such Bill be brought from the Commons in every re-
spect the same Bill as that which shall have been so marked by
the Chairman.

2. That any Bill of the said second class which shall have
been stopped in its progress through the House of Commons in
the present session by reason of want of time, and which shall
be brought up to this House in the ensuing session marked by
the Speaker of that House as having been so stopped, shall be
in like manner received by this House.
3. That those Bills which shall have been stopped in this
House, and so marked as aforesaid by the Chairman of Com-
mittees, and also those Bills which shall be brought up for the
first time next session marked by the Speaker of the House of
Commons as aforesaid, shall be proceeded with upon the same
notices as would have been required by this House under its
standing orders during the present session, and upon no other
notice.
They had been reported, after full consideration, by the Select.
Committee appointed by their Lordships, and the object of
them was to facilitate the performance of the private business
of the House during the present over-burdened session of Par-
liament. He would, therefore, move the adoption of the first
resolution.
The Earl of WICKLOW was willing to admit the justice of
meeting the case stated by the Noble Lord, but he apprehended
that the end would be better attained by an Act of Parliament
than by those resolutions. The resolutions would not accomplish
what a Bill would do. An Act would enable them to introduce
the Bills in the next session of Parliament, ad condor', at the
same stage precisely where they were left off in the present
session, and with less expense to the promoters.
After a few words in explanation from Lord BROUGHAM,
The Duke of RICHMOND said that a Bill would not save
expense to the parties. By a different line altogether more
advantages in every respect might possibly be chalked out, and
he considered it would not be doing justice to the pubic to
bind down Parliament to one which, perhaps, would not afford
so much public accommodation.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that it appeared to
him that, even if they could close in the present session of
Parliament any of these transactions, this would not prevent
their Lordships from taking into consideration even the repeal
of any Acts having reference to them in a future session.
Lord HATHERTON agreed with his Noble Friend op-
posite (Lord Wicklow) that it was better to proceed by Bill
than by resolutions. The difference that would arise in pro-
ceeding by thee methods was this. By adopting the resolu-
tions, the House would have to go through the same trouble-
some, tedious, and expensive forms with every one of the Bills,
as at present. By proceeding by Bill, their Lordships could
commence, in the next session, at exactly the same stage where
the Bill was left off. He did not think that they were alto-
gether without precedent in adopting such a course, for in
Divorce Bills, if he was not mistaken, a similar proceeding had
taken place.
Lord CAMPBELL was in favour of proceeding by Bill,
instead of by resolution. The real object to be obtained was
to provide that any railway Bill before the House should be
treated as if the House had only been adjourned, not prorogued.
In fact, to consider the two sessions as only one, as far as this
class of Bills was concerned.
. _

Lord BROUGHAM said that, at present, whether they
should proceed by resolution or Bill was not the real question.
It was as to the principle which the Committee had recom-
mended in the resolutions now before the House relative to
giving Bills the benefit neat session of any progress they might
have made iu the present. He did not, however, believe it
was possible to draw up a Bill sufficiently intelligible to meet
the case. . . _

Lord WICKLOW briefly explained the reason why he
thought the course by Bill was preferable to proceeding by re-
solution.

Lord BROTTGHAM said there was no precedent for pro-
ceeding by Bill in such cases. On the other hand, the House
had proceeded by resolution in 1t317 and in 1831, under some-
what analogous circumstances.
Lord STANLEY said the resolutions would only apply to
Bills that stood exactly in the same position the next session
as they did at the period of rising in the present. If any altera-
tion was made in the Bill it would deprive them of theproposed
benefit.
Lord BROUGHAM said this matter had been fully consi-
dered in Committee, and it was there the general opinion,
after mature examination, that no Bills but those which re-
mained exactly the same, without amendment, should have the
benefit of the resolutions.
Lord REDESDALE, as one of the Committee, defended
the view advanced by the Noble and Learned Lord. He ob-
jected to proceeding by Bill.
Lord HASTINGS argued that the resolutions infringed upon
the prerogative of the Crown, and, in his opinion, they ought
to proceed with this matter by enactment instead dresolutions.
He could not conceive it possible that there could be any
difficulty in adopting this suggestion.
Lord BROUGHAM had never heard anybody express him-
self with more entire ignorance of the subject.—( Laughter. )
He quite agreed with the Noble Lord that their course would
be unconstitutional if the resolutions should have the effect of
passing the Bills, but they would only allow Bills to pass
through the Standing Orders Committee, which had been
stopped short in the House of Commons by the termination of
the present session. In a word, the object of the resolutions
was to enable the preliminary notices of those Bills which had
been given in 1844 to serve for 1845.
Lord REDESDALE thought that his Noble and Learned
Friend was in error respecting the orders of the House. The
House had the entire controul of its own orders, and these were
frequently set aside to facilitate the passing of a Bill in one

Lord COTTENHA II said it was not necessary for their
Lordships to pass any new regulations respecting &11s sent up
from the House of Commons.

After a few woods from Lord ASHBURTON,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that any Bill which
came up from.the House of Commons would be received by their
Lordships as a matter of course. Their Lordships could not
decide upon any course, until they saw what resolutions the
Commons might pass. He, however, agreed with his Noble
and Learned triend, that their Lordships should proceed by
resolution, and not by Bill.
Lord BROUGHAM said, the Bills to which his resolu-
tions relat?d must commence la the House of Commons. But
that House was waiting to see what their Lordships would
do. The Commons would continue doubting, as to their
own resolutions, until they aaw how their Lordships were re-
solved.—(A laugh.)
The resolutions were then agreed to.
PROTECTION OF PROPERTY BILL.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE moved the third reading of this
Bill.

Lord BROUGHAM observed that he thought it hardly
worth while to pass a Bill of this nature. If an action of tres-
pass had been brought in the case which gave rise to this Bill
(the injury to the Portland vase,) the person who was guilty
of the offence would have been quite sufficiently punished.
Lord CAMPBELL would be sorry to see the penal code
extended, but he believed the public was shocked to find that
no punishment could be awarded for such an outrage as that to
the Portland vase. He reminded his Noble and Learned
Friend ( Lord Brougham) that this was not a civil injury, for
which the recovery of damages was a sufficient recompense,
but a crime which ought to be punished.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—As he read the Bill, a per-
son who broke the finger of a ',lager of Paris cast exposed
for sale in a shop window, might be imprisoned for two years.
That was too severe.
Lord BROUGHAM hoped this was a House of Lords'
Bill.—( Some Noble Lords said " No.") Well, he was really
ashamed to see that the House of Commons sent up a Bill pro-
viding that a person found guilty of the offence charged, might
be imprisoned, with hard labour or without, for such a period
as two years.
Lord CAMPBELL—Why, this Bill was introduced in the
other House by the Solicitor-General ; and it was a somewhat
strange course that his Noble and Learned Friend on the wool-
sackshould endeavour to throw a slur on it.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—It was new modelled under
the superintendence of his Noble Friend (Lord Wharncliffe). He
thought that the punishment should be restricted to six
months' imprisonment with hard labour, or with private whip-
ping, but not both. Surely that punishment was quite enough.
This amendment was agreed to, and the Bill was read a
third time.
The West India Relief Bill went through Committee.
DOG STEALING.

The Duke of BEAUFORT moved that the Dog Stealing
Bill be read a first time. The motion was agreed to, and
the Bill ordered to be read a second time on Monday next.