The Sun.
London, England, 1844-05-08 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, May 7.
Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock.
SAVINGS' BANKS.
Lord MONTEAGLE said he had to call the atten-
tion of the Government to a statement that had appeared
in one of the papers of that day, which it was necessary,
in justice to himself and the Government, and also, what
was more material than either, the public in-
terest, that he should notice. Their Lordships were
aware, from the Votes of the other House of Parliament,
that a Bill had been introduced by the Government for'
the purpose of reducing the interest on savings' bank
stock. Of course it would be unbecoming to discuss a
question then pending in the other House of Parliament,
but he might say, in passings., that he approved of the ob-
jects of the Bill, and considered its principle to be per-
fectly right. It would be absurd on the part of
the public to pay a rate of interest on the de-
posits in savings' banks which had been fixed at a
greater amount than the rate of interest which now pre-
vailed in the market. But the interest of the depositors
was a critical matter to deal with. They were a nume-
rous class, and many of them were probably not very
well informed on the subject ; they were apt to take
alarm, above all, when suggestions were made to
them calculated to excite that feeling. The state-
ment he referred to, arising probably from misap-
prehension, was calculated greatly to impede
the object the Government had in view, as well as to
create alarm on the part of depositors in savings' banks,
and consequently to prejudice the public interest, and
much more to prejudice the interests of the depositors
themselves. It was mainly in consideration of the in-
terests of the depositors themselves that he took the
liberty of bringing this matter under the considera-
tion of their Lordships as soon as possible.
Their Lordships were aware that, during the
period he had the honour of being the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, a purchase of Exchequer bills was
made by the Trustees of Savings' Banks, which bills
were afterwards funded in the Three per Cent. stock. This
was not a time to defend that mode of procedure. The
Noble Duke opposite knew perfectly well that that pro-
ceeding was perfectly in accordance with
the existing law, under the Act of 1828,
which gave the Government the power of mak-
ing such investments. The statement he
referred to was this; "If it should be found that the
funds invested in savings' banks have been seriously in-
jured by the jobbing that prevailed during the time the
Whige_held office, the parties interested will be entitled
to compensation, and have all the circumstances
duly considered in any new arrangement it may
be necessary to make." It further appeared by
the statement, that interest amounting to 680,000/,
representing a capital of 2,000,0001 or 3,000,0001. ster-
ling, had been lost by these proceedings. He need not
assure their Lordships that no such loss had been sus-
tained ; the statement was altogether fallacious. If any
loss were sustained it would not fall on the depositors.
To them the public faith was pledged, and every depo-
sitor was entitled to receive the full amount of his de-
posit, whatever might be the loss sustained by the sale of
stock. If this were not the case there wonld be no se-
curity for savings' banks. If an early opportunity were
not taken of contradicting such a statement an alarm
would have been raised which would have caused a run
on every savings' bank in London ; and, there-
fore, he had thought it right to bring the matter
under the consideration of their Lordships.—(Hear.)
DEBTOR AND CREDITORS' BILL.
Lord BROUGHAM, in proposing the second reading
of this Bill, said that its object was to remedy a great
defect in the law, which enabled a debtor, with his cre-
ditors' consent, to effect a composition as soon as he
found insolvency approaching. Under present circum-
stances, unless all the creditors agreed the composition
could not be effected, and in consequence there was a
great premium for a few of them to hold out against the
rest of the creditors, in order that they might ultimately
buy up the interest of the parties whom they opposed.
That defect would be remedied by the present Bill.
Lord COTTENHAM had no objection to the second
reading being now taken, provided that so doing would
not pledge their Lordships to the principle of the Bill.
The Bill was then read a second time.
Lord CAMPBELL, in the absence of his Noble Friend,
Earl Gosfurd, presented several petitions from different
parts of Ire laud relative to the Presbyterian marriages.
RECAL OF THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL OF
INDIA.
Lord NORMANBY rose, pursuant to notice, to take
the first opportunity on which they had the pleasure of
seeing his Noble Friend the President of the Board of
Control in his place, to put a question on the subject of
the correspondence of the Board of Directors of the East
India Company with her Majesty's Government. Under
the peculiar circumstances in which he meant to put
this question to his Noble Friend, it was neces-
sary for him to make a few preliminary observa-
tions. Ile might be more strictly in order
in moving for the production of those papers, but at the
same time, now, as hitherto, he had every reason to be-
lieve that those papers would be produced by her
Majesty's Government, and if not, the refusal to pro-
duce them could only be based upon one ground, which,
if stated on the responsibility of his Noble Friend,
he (the Marquis of Normanby) should not be
prepared to resist. Re thought, then, it would be more
convenient if he adopted the more informal but more usual
course of putting a question, making at the same time a
few observations on the subject-matter. When certain
opinions were pronounced in that House in answer to a
question from his Noble Friend on the subject, he (the
Marquis of Normanbyl thought that the immediate
consequence would be the production of all the corres-
pondence so as to enable the House to form ajudgment on
the matter. On that occasion he stated that he regretted that
they had not an immediate answer as to the production
of those papers. The Noble Duke stated, at the time,
that though they were not prepared to give an imme-
diate answer, yet that Parliament had an undoubted
right to the fullest information on the subject.—
(Expressions of dissent from the Duke of Wellington,)
He (the Marquis of Normanby) had certainly so under-
stood the Noble Duke. He might also allude to what
passed on another occasion, in another place, when two
of the Hon. Gentlemen connected with the administra-
tion of Indian affhirs, stated that they hoped, in spite of
what had passed in their Lordships' House, public opinion
would be suspended till the papers were produced • and
her Majesty's Prime Minister, in answer, stated that he
was not prepared at once to produce the papers. He (the
Marquis of Normanby) might therefore infer that up to that
time no conclusive reason was entertained by the parties
interested against the production of those papers; at
the same time, if his Noble Friend opposite should state
that the production of those papers at the present
moment would be detrimental to the public service,
he should not press for their production. He regretted
that such decided censure had been pronounced on the
conduct of certain parties in the affair, though he must
state that his regret was by no means inconsistent with
the high respect which he as well as the rest of their
Lordships all bore to the Noble Duke who pronounced
that censure. However, as a deliberative assembly
their Lordships should protest against any
weight being attached to that censure. He
thought that they were bound, not only as members
of a deliberative assembly, but as the highest court of
judicature in this country, to hear before they con-
demned.—(Hear.) If there were any strong objection
to the production of those papers, he should feel his re-
gret at the premature expression of opinion on the part
of the Noble Duke very much inceeased.—(Hear.) The
power of the Court of Directors to recal the Governor-
General had existed more than half a century, and the
present was the first time that any collision between
the Board and the Government had taken place.
Now, he would ask, was there anything in the
constitution of the Court of Directors which might
incline them to take views adverse to the present Go-
vernment ? Certainly not. It was well-known that the
majority of the Court of Directors were of the same
political opinions with her Majesty's present Government;
and it was natural to inquire what could be the cause
of their disagreement with the Government in this mat-
ter ?—(Hear.) He by no means thought that a ma-
jority of his fellow-countrymen were now in favour of
her Majesty's Ministers, but still it could not be denied
that they were backed by a majority of ninety in
the other House of Parliament which had not
yet run through half the term of its existence. It could
not be through hostility to the Government the Directors
had acted ; but it was said that it was through igno-
rance of the facts. That was not the fact--(Hear, hear)
—for the Secret Committee were not bound to conceal
such matters from the general body of the Board.
He had read over the statutes. and the Charter,
and ho found that it was only on questions of war
the Committee was sworn to secrosy. All questions of
internal policy, and the appointments and dismissals of
servants, civil and military, were entirely unconnected
with the oath of secresy. Was it possible that Parliament
should have given that power, and not retained to itself
the means of knowing how the power was exercised ?
Suppose it were the case of Sinde,, on account of which
the Directors thought it necessary to recal
Lord Ellenborough. Why should' not Parliament be
informed what the instructions of the Government at
home had been ? He perfectly agreed with the propriety
of deferring any opinion upon the conduct of the Go-
vernor-General until he was there to defend him-
self.—(Hear, hear.) He (Lord Normanby) had felt
in a smaller sphere the inconvenience of exercising
important functions in a distant part of the empire, and
he should be the last person in the 'world to say that the
acts of a man placed in such circumstances should
not be viewed with consideration and candour.
His Noble Friend need not be afraid that,
in calling for these papers, be had any in-
tention of urging on the discussion which
ought, in fairness, to be postponed until Lord Ellen-
borough had returned to this country. But it had
been said that there was an intentiot i on the part of the
Government to take steps for de/ riving the Court of
Directors of the power which they g Jn this occasion exer-
cised. If there was any such intena on entertained in any
quarter, there was one Noble Lord - that ought first of all
others to be heard—that Noble Lo rd having made the
most decided objections to any mg luction of the power
of the Court of Directors.--f Cries of " Hear,
hear.") No one had taken_ a more active
or useful part in that House in f he administration of
Indian affairs, no one was more ct mversant with them,
either when he was at the head of the Board of Control
or unconnected with the Governs nent, and he had on
more occasions than one warn( .d Noble Lords not
to interfere with the hitherto successful balance
o[lfspoordwer: Ellenborough ho
eiod to be the Noble-
werweatsheuiouipeinniqic s of the Noble Lord—
Bean referred to]—and he (Lc g. a Normanby) had no
doubt his opinions so sound then had been confirmed by
the practical experience he lied since acquired.—
(Hear, hear.) Though he had . been ready, on the
request of the Noble Duke, to postp .ne his ques-
tion till the better health of his Noble Friend
(Lord Ripon) permitted his attend dance in his place, yet
he must say he regretted the s nail had left for India
before he had an opportuni,; e of putting it. It