The Sun.
London, England, 1819-05-25 00:00:00

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respc.ting tt drain upon ale ilank, if a
qrn sze "ere adopted which would oblige them
1." regulate their issues by the !nice of gold, he
"I.otl reply by retelling the House to the ex-
-I,ottence they had of such a plan from 1774 0
1/97. Then 'he Bank regulated their issues
to the price of gold; and what was the
"Ivo:pence 1 It they lookcd at the returns, it
would he found that during drat period the price
gold bad never exceeded 31. 17i. 6,1. per °Z.—
`" "'he Bank had been compti;ed -to p'y their
flutes ill gold, the market price of gold had been
4r)nFned to the Mint price. Then, as it was pro-
,r
yosed should be doue now, the holder of Bank

7"res tp the ntnouot of 9501. had a ri.J.ht 10 de-

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'Th'hd--,-rrot what runny contused themselves with,
0 +natty soverci!ns or guineas—but 51bst of gold.
fly the regulations of the Mint it was determined
`that it pound of gold should be made in! o l'ort y-
,l6lkr .gutneas and a half ; and gold at this late the
l'°l:ler of Bank notes had a right to demand. The
tad been sent out of the country. But the price
Told, it was said, varied. It was now 41. Os.
bill it had been 41. lOs and even 51. 2s. and'it
Illight he so again. The assertion that the price
'if gold had thus risen was a fallacy ; it bad varied
11.5 to paper, hut, taken abstractedly, had it risen in
value
any e .?aid m
gold purchase more silver, ore coin,
°r more other commodity that was fixed in its
"uality, and secure from fluctuations in stipply, than
jt (lid 50 years ago He denied that it did. On
the contrary, it purchased less, and for this r, a-
eon, that E!igland and other countries had found
3libbtitute tor it, and the consequence was, the
value of gold was, in point of tact, less now than
It, "'as halt a century ago. Bit then it was Sam,
4te price of gold had been raised by an increase
:f taxation He held this to he impossible. It
"ad been found tbst price,, high, when taxes
!'ere low, had fallen when taxation became
t:
r‘gber• Gold, he eon ended, the Legislature had
il,ntetided to pass by its weight as bullion. One
ttbieetion to the plan of the Committee was found-
-4,(1 on the a•sertion, that the revenue having great-
jY intreased a circulating medium proportionably
Marge became neeesssry. This argument seemed
tather formidable at first. They were toll, that
tl'e revenue and the I lade of the country, as well

as the pt ivate fortunes of individnals, had increased,
and that consequently,' an increa.ed circulating
eiliurn became indispensible. This, however
tlaqsib:e it might seem, he „would positively
enY• To refute die position, he would compare
'a." periods, and show what in them had been the
st'te of ow revenue and of our circulating medium,
and tit, periods he ieterrerlio were 1792 and 1809.
„,,
he la.ter year he bad chosen from, this circum-
Mance, that there was then no deficiency in
ant circulating mediem, and it was the year
'hich preceded t hat in sviiich the Bullion Com-
.'
,_"lltee was appointed. It was indeed supposed
that there was an excess of currency. The opinion
*as, that too many Bank notes had been issued,
1,1111 this had led to the appoint went of the huh-
-61) Committee. It any person considered the
attiount of our cirenlatiog medium ought to he
a"grovioed as the revenue acid trc.de of the coon-
increased,- it would follow that our circulating
211"littni ought to have been much greater in 1809
'haft it was in 1792. Bu( it had actually varied
"an inverse proportioo. lo 1792 our circulat-
Vg medium had been estimated. by the late Lord
1-iNerpool, to amount to 30,000,0001. He would
klike it at 5,000,0001. in order to make it as
ah!avourable as possible for his own position,
atnti Qoopose it in reality to have amounted to
"'"0,0001. From official returns it appeared, that
nere were tloli in circulation Bank notes to the
amount of 11,000,0001., making the total
t^,-unt of the circulating medium .at that period
'4,,,6,000,0001. At that period the interest of the
'"attonal Debt was 9,000,0001. ; the number of
le„s'els engaged commercial enterprize was
t", 000, their official value being about 19,000,0001.
113t1Ch was the state of thongs in 1792. In 1809
the interest of the Public. Debt had risen to
71,000.0001., baying increased more than. three-
i the number of ships employed in commerce
had increased one-third, being :hen 15.000, and
the amount of our exports ban increased one-half.
VI this year gold was 41. Ils. per Oz., so it could
ant he supposed that much could remain in circa-
' ,ati°o• It might he fairly' supposed that there
r 5 htlle or none,.and this assumed, it would be
that in 1809 a • circulating medium of
,L",(100,0001. managtd smile way to transact
;Ine bo.iness of the ratio" with an increase of
:4)1, dn increase of trade, and an increase of
laxatioti though in 1792 a circulating medium of
t 6,000,0001. was required. A paper which had
•"1 moved for by a Noble Friend of his in
another place, and which he (Mr. Peel) bad also
la'ved for, threw great light on this subject, and
lowed that at one period- the same amount of
• ok notes would do three times Lim business that
I:nuid he so accomplished at another. The return,
‘n, which he alluded showed the number of notes
which had been issued of each denomination in
4 '792 and 1818., with calculations, so far as the
cog Oil be made our, how long each had re-
In'llovd in circulation in the two years. He then
thtered into the same details On that subject which
- LFriday,
Li'verpool submitted to the other house on
in order to show, that in the progress of
W.,'!alth and refinement, means had been found,
!_lirtrtugh the improvements which bad been mittle,
to transact more business with a smaller circulating
o
irdiutn. From the comparison thus instituted, he
1:11'°"14lit it followed that the doctrine which had
Le'll advanced of an increased circulating mediume
° oniing necessary from an increase of reve-
11ne or of commerce, Must entirely fall to the
ground. Some persons, who were of opinion that-
ametallic currency was desirable, thought, after
In!;p•ensing wiih it for twenty-two, years, that it
svt )tild be difficult to return to the ancient
le'"“lard.; These thet &or proposed that the pre-
4_nt Wice of gold shook! be taken to form the
:ttititre standard of the country. This was to alter
delwmination of•our money; but all that could
!kw got by this would be that which might be ob-
cit_i'_ed troth acting a fraudulent part by the public
1:1_7:tor. It might relieve us from some of their
"1 5, but it would not lower the price of gold,
nor torn the
exchanges in our favour; nor
t
ts t inral tilt, rtaritset be" "fro rte. enneira!inlgf wmedium
e ptit our
.o.tu ,
argei quantity of alloy than usual, it

otild not fol• oh 14.10M:et-It AeveNe 1150,e

abroad. 13kvcatise we called they *illicit was worth
I9s. a guittea, he wciiild not give tis 21s. for it.
Such a measure would give us no security against

the exportation of coin, if the price of gold should
continue high. He called upon the Hunse
to look at the policy of such a course of proceed-
ing, which would only procure that which they
conic! at any 'line procure by fraud; an easier way
of paying the public creditor. lie thought it de-
sirable that they should return to Cash Payments.
Unquestionably in doing so they had to encounter
consiiierable difficulties, but to these the nation

ought to submit as to a just punishment forhaving
renounced them so long. If they altered the stan-
dard now to 4/. Is. at a future period they would
be culled upon to act a similar part again It
I.vould be said that France or Russia, or some other

Power, wanted gold, and that thither all the coin
issued from the Bank of England would be con-
veyed, and therefore the wise policy of those
who raised the, siandard from 31. 17s. 1011. to
41. Is. ought to be imitated, and the standard
again raised front 41. Is. to 41 10s. Against such
a principle he must enter his protest. In the
history of the country it would he found that at
three former periods the currency of the country
had been reformed, and manfully restored to the
ancient standard. To these tutee periods lie
would call the attention of the 1-louse, and it
would be seen that they were periods to which
Englishmen might look back with wide and satis-
faction. Tney would be round in the reigns of
Edward the First, Queen Elizabeth, and William
the Third. At all three of ,the periods to which
lie alluded great difficulties were ro be encoun-
tered ; difficulties at least as great as any that
opposed the present plan, yet those difficulties
had been met, and had been overcome. The
first instance in which a ref►►rmation in:rut-

currency took place was in the time of King
Edward. At the very moment when he was
occupied in conquering Wales, and engaged in
au attempt to subdue Scotland, he hid applied

.. . _
himself to improve the circtdating medium, and
his conduct in this instance had been praised by
the most intelligent historians. The next period
at which the ancient standard had been restored,

was in the reign of Qieen ElizaheJi, under ch..
comstances to he would call the attention
of the House• The currency of the country had
been debased during the r.-igns of Henry the S Ii
and Edward the 6th, in some instances not less

than 400 per e4att. The same coc:sequences that
were not,. experienced from a deteriorated circu-
lating medium then became the subject of com-
plaint. There was an advance of prices, great
fluctuation in the value of all commodities, and
great disturbances at different times. It was in
the second year of Elizabeth, that she, by the ad-
vice of her Ministet Burleigh, determined to re-
tot m the coin of the re dm. There were then not
wanting those who could tell of the difficulties
attendant ou the execution of such a design.—
'They said the new coin would pass into fo-
reign couut, ks, and that all that conld be
done would be of no avail. Ireland, she was
warned, was tiler' almost in a state of
while the Courts of Rome, France, and
Spain, %vele a l leagued against her ; and it
was asked if at that time, and under, such circurn-
stance she would vent lire on a step so important ?
She determined to rim the risk. :she was advised
by Lotd Burleigh, that the dangers of which she
had been warned constituted the reasons which
ought to determine her to reform the currency of
the country, and tailing to do this, her interests
would suffer abroad. Acting on his advice, 'her
coutliCt had been the subject of general praise.
In the very iearneti work of Lord Liverpool, a re-
ference had been made to a monumental inscrip-
tion, in which her conduct on this occasion had
been praised. lie bad sought fur it and found it,
and perhaps it was tansy, but to him it appeared
singularly applicable to the present period. It
related the glories of a long reign of 45 years, re-
corded her claims to the gratitude of her people,
and having noticed the brilliant sichievetnents of
her reign, in the course of which Spain had
been defeated and Holland protected, it added,
that above all, (text to maintaining the Protes-
tant Religion Moneta ad justam valorem se-
ducta. That above all, money had been restored
to its just value ; that she had had the man-
liness and the courage to restore the ancient
standard of the country under 1311 the difficulties
with which she had had to contend.—(Hear,
hear!)--King William, at the moment he was
t
engaged in a foreign war, in 1 (W.), .IH . un,e; taken
to reform the silver coin of the tedni. Ibis, too,
he resolsed upon at a time when patties run !sigh,
and when it was impossible for the Chancellor of
the Exchequer to bring forward such a proposi-
tion without being thwarted. merely for the pur-
pose of opposition. King William, however, de-
termined to imitate the conduct of his great pre-
decessor, and the currency was reformed. He had
found the currency debased by about one-third ;
he heard all the arguments that were exploded,
but his purpose was fixed. )3efore the discussions
on this subject were' terminated, he hoped the
Members would look at the arguments used on
that occasion by Mr. Lowntles, who teas then
opposed to the celebrated John Locke. The
former contended that a shilling was merely an
abstract sign, and that its weight of silver was of
no importance—the latter contended that it was
necessary the shillings should be of a proper
weight—that 62 shillings should weigh a pound,
and most fortunately his argument's prevailed.,
The course of these arguments reminded him of
what appeared in the history of Marino's Seri-
blerus. Martinos being asked what abstract idea
he had of a man, gave this reply, " 1 have no
abstract idea of a man,ibut as the Knight of
a Shire or the Burgess of a Corporation,"-7-
" But then," said his father " have you no
idea of a Lord Mayor I" To this he replied,
" that be bad seen but one, and he was decorat-
ed with furs 'and a gold chain round his neck ; he
could not help associating those articles with his
idea of a Lord Mayor, and more than, that, as
he bad seen the Lord Mayor on horseback, he
could not avoid mixing up the horse with them."
" I," said the lather, " can not only form an
abstract idea of a Lord Mayor without any such
accompanyment, but I can imagine him nut only
divested 'of furs and gold, bat also wittiont refer-
ence to his size, eyes, or body."-.--(A

Loc'ne, whet to *Ol f()t-ril MI Itlee. of
abstract -pound of silver, carried his point, and
Mr. Lowndet was obliged to give tip his abstract
idea for a solid pound of sager. fie then noticed
the a, gninents,used for and against the recoinage
of 1695. The former had prevailed, and that they
had dime so leas fortunate for the country; and be
now called upon the House to say if there were
any thing in the present situation of the nation
that could prove unequal to an effort like that
which was then made. When they were told of
a paper currency having contributed to the prospe-
rity of the country, and forwarded the interest of
our manufactures and trade, he would ask if such
effects could be looked for from'an inconvertible
paper ? He would remiod . those who were so
much attached to the present system, this coun-
try was great before the suspension of Cash Pay-
ments. It had gaited military glory before the
year 1797, and it was not from that period that
we wee to date our importance among tiatirins.
It we differed trout le her' countries in having a
paper circulating utediutti, we also differed
from them in this, that we had rigidly maintained
public faith, and had even exempted the funds
of foreigners, from taxation, when they flew
our shores for a /refuge. In our dangers,
we hail been cheered by the reflection that our
victories had not been gained by any act for
which we could feel remorse. This bad cheered
us through the dark and desolate period we had
passed ; and, now that we, werelanded on the
fort her shore, he trusted that we should not part
with the companion of our long voyage, but that
we should act up to that honourable principle in
time of peace which had carried us triumphantly
through the wai. On every consideration that
could rationally be entertained—on every prin-
ciple of policy and justice, he telt that we were
bound to pay 11. in bullion for the Bank note
of 1.1. He then briefly took a view of the
cha-
racter of the Mint ,regolations, to which he
could see no solid objection. He understood some
persons had had it -in contemplation to pro-
pose a plan by which the Bank should be.called
upon to pay gold in bars at the market price. He
would rather see all principle abrogated than see
such a principle as that to which he had alluded
substituted for that which had hitherto been acted
upon. He showed this would vim tually_go to
prevent Ow return, or at least the continuance, of
Cash Payments. He woold now conclude. The
opinions he had this night expressed were oppo-
site to those on'. whico he bad formerly acted,
when in truth he had not tune to give the subject
that consideration which it so well deserved ; and
if this seatetnent wonid serve to satisfy the House
of his sincerity, he had an arduous duty to per-
form. He was that eight obliged painfully to op-
pose an authority to which on every occasion but
this, where a sense of duty forbad him to give
way, he %VHS ready to how with respect and vene-
ration. But having engaged in the late inquiry,
he had been forced to that conclusion winch he
had come to on the pi inciple Which °it& to govern
the corrancy of this'Country, and as an honest
man, he was booed to say, rand he did it without
feeling the slightes't shame, his , opinion was
changed. He then moved his Resolutions.
The three first Resolutions, which are merely
declaratory of uncontested facts, were poi and
carried. On the fourth being pot, which embo-
dies the plan for returning to Cash Payments,,
Mr. Reeice rose.—He concurred with all the
principles laid down by the Right HMI. Gentle-
man in his very eloquent speech, bitt differed front
the Committee as to the remedy which ought to
be resorted to in order to carry those principles
into effect : he wished not to weaken the effect
of that speech in favour of principles -,vhieb he so
highly approved ; they were opposed but by few,
and those who opposed them only did so on the
ground of present inexpediency, bit without in-
(heath% the period when it would be less inexpe-
dient to act upon them. lie took a view of the
situation of thecountry from 1816, when the ex.
changea were in our tavoor, up to the present
time, and traded the difficulties tinder which we
,had now to labour to the plan cit finance
brought forward by the Chancellor of the Ex-
'chequer in consequence of the favourable state
of the exchanges. The trade of the coon.
try in 1815 and 1816 he compared with that
of the two following'years, and argued that in
the latter periodethough the exports were great
in consequence of the speculations which had
been encouraged, the returns were very ttotavour-
able to this country. The evils of our currency
were only now beginning to make themselves felt,
but we should find them increase with every hour
till the restoration of the ancient standard of value
should he accomplished. if lie differed front the
Right Honourable Gentleman as to the particular
measure recommen:led by him, and founded on ,
the report of the Committee, he begged ttgaiti to
say that he perfectly agreed with them in the
principles which they had avowed, and the first
three resolutions had his most cordial ap-
probation. If in no other way he could ac-
complish the object in view, lie would go with
the Right Hon. Gentleman, but he thought lie
saw it better way of remedying the evil. He
wished to move that the stint to he repaid to the
Batik should be repaid at fixed periods, beginning
,in June in the present year. Other amendments
he would afteravards propose, to restrain the
Bank from making advances but in certain cases
to Government, and to allow them to pay their
notes in coin or bullion, at their option. Ile
should also move for the repeal of the Law re-
specting the exportation of coin. He concloilad
by moving an amendment, which went to pro-
vide " tot the repayment of the Bank by monthly
instalments of 500,0001. to be regularly paid, be-
ginning on the 10th of June, 1819."
Mr. J. P. GRANT rose to make some observa-
tions upon the tenour of the original Resolutions
submitted for adoption to the Committee. If these
were the organs of the sentiments of Ministers, be
congratulated the country on so many converts to
a new system, for it was not a little curious that
they should now have avowed that the connexion
with the Batik, upon which they have been acting
so long, was bottomed in error. He then took
occasion to attribute the absence of gold from
this country to the operation of the Mint regula-
tions respecting silver, and appealed to the vote
be bad given on a former occasion, when there
were some Resolutions before the House concern-

ing the stignorage Of silver, to slew that be bad
always been of lie same opinion. Seeir..., then,
that these regulations had the effect of deiviog the
gold out of the country, wuoiirl ask, whete was
the necessity for continuing them, witlmui any
apparent rood resniting front thent.l T. ey wele
peculiar to this country--they %A. ere unknown to
France or any nation on the Con, in' et, d the
testimony of Locke, Haeris, ai4 the hoe Earl of
Liverpool, proved the bad effects o! 'nem. These
writers had laid it down, that tt.ere should be
only one. standard of value, and dial where two
metals had oeen rated at denominations different
from their market prices, the one which had been
over-rated would +hive the other oat of the coun-
try. The Hon. Gentleman then yrocee.ltd !o
enter into some calcolations, by which lie showed
that under the Mint regulations, a person
who buys gold here and sells it on the 0,11-
tinent, has a profit on it of 7, 4,1. an (Inure, and
by guying up silver there and selling it here
he has also a profit 'iron the latter trans-
action. Eit! (bell referred to 'be evidence of Mr.
Baring and Mr. Harman, taken betore the Lords'
Committee, to bear him out "in this assertioM. Ile
also quoted from a letttr of Mr. liat man to the
Committee, containing a statement of the (trace of
gold ill several successive months from 3.11 y 1816,
to April 1817, and its relation to the issues oftlbe
Bank, concluding from that, that as the issors of
the Bank extended, gold rose in its ptice, otid
as they were contracted, it was lowered. lle
also objected to the mode of ascertainieg the
quantity of mercantile I.4ns:fictions petfottned by
these notes, by consulting the netnher of them
outttanding. These shook] be held, in many
cases, only to slew the number of uiscoutirs
by the Bank ; and discounts did not 5o
touch sheer' the number of toe transactions,. es
the menner in which they carried on.
Then as to the only arguments in defence of
the Mint regulations, namely, the cl.ecks iu
tile hands of Government, he addrtss a
few words. Ohe of these check% was the cot ..
trcul which Government had mitt the eircoialion
of silver, by which there torrid never be' an ex-
cess of it. if there was Tito eee allowed to tom it
but themselves. Now, the Committee had
al-
ready recognized the espeditncv of repeating .he
law affecting the e'xport.ition of (min, convinced
that wullst a profit was held our as an ifldUCPlllent
to persous to iotriuge it, they would not eeSl-
- to do so. Tliere was a profit of 8/ ~e.r
cent.' on coining silver, and potions would
be found who for this profit would coin it, for in
coining from the same metal, utillte the case of
the baser metal, throe Was no fear of detection.
Again, there was but little security in silver, not
being a legal tender for more than 40 shilli,gs,
for even so, a person wisi lug to buy op gold with
silver may do so, and make no larger payunnts.
These considerations induced him to look upon'
the INJint regulations as operating in a great 'bed-
sore to iitive gold out of the country. The Lion.
' Member concluded with declaring, that if this ex-.
periment was now to be made, the stoppage of
cash payments, an evil always to be o. ~gored,
could not be more dangerous than such an expe-
riment.

Mr. W. POLE said, he fully agreed in every
statement made by the Committee in their report,
and in the result of the evidence that bad been
given before the Committee. It was impossible
that any thing could be more fair and honest thau
the 'conduct of those Geetlemen who composed
the Committee, aud, who, forgetting ail party
feelings, laboured to do that aleee nbich they
considered as conducive to the interests of the
country. He should indeed be happy, bad it been
possible for the Report of , that (...ommittee, and
the Ili solutions founded thereon, to be framed
in the spirit of the amendrneet proposed by an
Hon. Gentleman oppoite. He bad the greatest
respect fir the Directors of the Bank, and he be-
lieved that they had in every respect acted
from the best motives ; but there were two an-
swers given to certain queries that had been put,
which made it necessary to frame the Resolutions
in the way in which they had been now broogut
forward. As his Right Hoe. Friend had so fully ,
discussed this part of the subject, he should not
trouble the 'House with any more observations
upon it. Indeed, there appeared to he a eeperal
feeling in the House in favour ot the Rese:utions,
and be only now rose in consequence ot some ob-
servations which had fallen front the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman who spoke last, whose ditty,
no doubt, it was to deliver h`s sentiments in ifie
manner he slid to the House. The sentiments,
however, of the Learned Gentleman we-e not
new to. hint ; 'they had already been put for-
ward by a highly respectable and highly gifted
individual, who called himself an Old Merchant,
and who, in fact, was no other than a Noble
Lord, who was distingnished in another House
for his great knowledge on subjects of this
kind, which he appeared to have cerefUlly studied.
He should now state to the House the principle
on which the coinage of this countey was esta-
blished. Before the time of King William, siver
was the standard coin ot this realm ; anti although
gold was then in circulation, its value was
fluctuating and unfixed. The two coins were
then- competitors against each other in the'inarket,
and one ot them frequently drove the other eel of
the market. After the accession of King ‘Vitieee,
gold was made the %tendert' coin ; and in 177411te
gold coin was reformed. A law then was passed to
make the silver coinage a legal tender as tar as
251. The gold wits all recoined, and its value was
replated by w'eight ; it thus became the most
perfect coin -in the world, and, as Adam Smith
observed, it had the effect of turning ail the fo-
reign exchanges in our favour. Au Act after-
wards was passed for giving value to the silver
coinage, for fieiug its value by weight (ss. 2J.
per ounce), and for mekieg it a legal tender to
the amount of 251. At that time the amettet of
silver in circulation was about three nillions.
From 1774 to 1783, , the gold coin never lett the
country. It was now objected that Government
had altered 'the value ot the silver coieage,'by
stating, that 661. in shillings were worth no more
than 621. This was a fallacy ; for the silver ccia-
age was not a legal tender above 405., and the re-
lative pAces of silver in ILeglend and France
never was such as had been stated. By this
regulation the Government prevented one metal
from clotshing with the other, and had not