The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, July 4.
Their Lordships met at Five o'clock.
The Earl of FALMOUTH, and the Earl of ST. GEILMAHS,
presented several petitions in favour of the Cornwall Railway.
IRISH BANKING BILL.
The Earl of RIPON moved the third reading of the Irish
Banking Bill.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE proposed, as an amend-
ment, the insertion of a clause giving to the Hibernian and
Royal Banks equal privileges with the other banks, which,
under the provisions of this Bill, had the power of issuing notes
in Dublin and within sixty miles thereof.
The Earl of RIPON resisted the amendment, and the clause
was eventually negatived without a division.
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
GAME-LAWS.
The Earl of BESBOROUGH intimated, on behalf of Lord
Dacre, that it was not his intention to proceed this session
with his Bill forte
alring the me-laws.
IRISH JURORS BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the second reading of
the Irish Jurors Bill. He would detain the House only a few
minutes while he briefly called the attention of their
Lordships to the state of the law at present in Ireland,
and to the provisions which he intended to introduce to remedy
the defects in it. The high constable and collectors are ordered
to make out lists once a year, of the different parties who are
elegible to be elected as jurors. This list is sent to the clerk of the
peace. The clerk of the peace is desired to leave it three weeks
at some public place, where it will be open to public inspection.
At a subsequent period a session is held for the examination of
the lists, and all persons are allowed to attend, and the high
constable and clerk of the peace are required to attend, when
any one whe has an objection to make either as to the omission
or insertion of a name can make such objection. In perform-
ing this act there is no appeal from the decision of that Court.
Up to this point there was no difficulty. The magistrates make
out from these particular lists a general list where the indi-
viduals are classified according to their rank, station, and pro-
perty. This list, so arranged, is sent to the clerk of the peace
and the sherriffs, and that is what is called the jurors' book for
the year. In making out this general list an error is liable to
creep in and in the case which gave rise to this Bill an error
did actually arise, for one of the lists was lost while they were
being transcribed. Now, to remedy this defect, and to prevent
the possibility of any error occurring in future from this cause,
he would have the list numbered with successive numbers.
He would further require that the general and particular lists
should he delivered to the magistrates, and after they shall be
satisfied of their agreement, they shall sign the general list.
That was the second step. Then the book so made out was
delivered to the sheriffs. If, however, any error should after all
this precaution be detected, he would have a special pro-
vision to meet it. He would direct the particular and general
lists to remain with the clerk of the peace, open to the inspec-
tion of the people without fee or reward, and if any one found
a name omitted or iaserted, so as to make an incorect list, he
would enable this error to be rectified on an application to the
Court of Queen's Bench, a judge of which Court would be
authorised to summon the clerk of the peace and the sheriffs,
with their book, and have the error corrected in his presence.
These then were the provisions of the Bill; and if it were
read a second time, and they went into Committee, he should
be happy to insert any additions which Noble Lords Might
consider necessary. fie was ready to adopt any precautions
which might be suggested. Ho had been unwilling to overload
the Bill with unnecessary provisions. Since the Bill was
printed, he had received a communication from a gentleman
who had obtained some notoriety on the subject—Mr. Pierce
Mahony—who was of opinion that suffieient provision was made
in the Bill fur all that was required. If any further explana-
tion was required, lie should be happy to give it.
Lird CAMPBELL thought the Bill would effect great im-
provements, but he was disappointed that it did not make
better provision for the challenge to the array, which was a
noble prisilege, given by the common law of England to a
person placed on his trial. Sufficient provision was not made
in the hilt for any mistake or indifference on the part of the
:sheriff, or of the person by whom the list was made out. He
hoped his Noble Friend would introduce a clause into the Bill
-to make better provision for any mistakes of this nature which
tr.i.eht arise.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the challenge to the
array would only be necessary where there wins a defect in the
list. If the li-t corresponded with the jurors book, there would
be no necessity for a challenge to the ar:ay. It would be the
duty of the Court to compare the book with the l'st, that no
eni-take might arise—nothing was left to the discretion of the
Court. tie did not apprehend that there sag any necessity to
after the Bill with respect to the challenge to the array in the
intermediate stages of the tiial. However, he would take it
into consideration.
Lord D NM AN was satisfied with the Bill.
LOO .) CH A NCELLOR said if this Bill were parsed
;lie intended to itereduce a similar Bill for England.
MI was then lead a second time.
411 BISHOPS' PATRONAGE BILL.

This Bill was read a third time and passer'.
THE COI, TING TRADE.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY moved for a return o
ene number of British ships and their tonnage, and of British
~eareen of all ranks, employed in the South Sea fishing in each
tot' the three years 1830, 1831, and 183 e, and in the years
1841, 1842, and 1813, anti tie total of each of th three
-years ; also a similar return of the eumber of British ships and
their tennage, of all reeks, in the Greenland and Davis
Straits wilale fi,iery in t ach of the years 1830, 1831, and
1;332, and in 1841, 1842, aml 1843, and the totals of these
_years; and a'so a similar return of the number of British
ships and their tonnage, and British seamen of all reeks, em-
proved in that trade to the ports of Ru•sia, Denmark, Sweden,
eror Pru,sia, in each of the y ears 1830, 1831, ant 1832, and
in 1841, 1842, and 1843, and the totals of each of these three
Nears. Tie Noble Marquis said his object in moving for these
,returns was to show the falling off which had resulted to the
coasting trade in consequence of the construction of railways.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE had no objection to produce
the returns moved for by the Noble Marquis. He was aepre-
hensive, however, that tho returns, instead of showing a falling
off in the coasting trade, would show quite the reverse. The
charge in bringing coals by sea, a distance of 240 miles, was
7s. 6.1. per tow, irrespective of London harbour dues, while,
iy railro id, the cost was 145., or about 4d. per ton per
mile. Noe', he did think that so long as this was the ease
there was very little danger to be apprehended as to a filling
elf ire the coss!ing trade. He believed, too, that 4d. per
eon per mile was the utmost limit in point of cheapness for
'hich coals could be carried. It was stated by the Noble
:Marquis that they could be carried at one halfpenny, or even
one farthing, per ton per mile, but he thought that, with all the
improvements that were introduced in locomotive power, coals
would never be conveyed at such low rates.
Lord HAT HER FON considered that the Noble Earl's cal-
culations were made for the districts in Derbyshire, Stafford-
shire, and Leicestershire, and the northern counties. Instead,
Jeowever, of basing his calculations on a distance of 251 miles.
let bins Like a shorter distance—let him take 120 miles. It
he did so, he thought it would be seen that the apprehensions
entertained by the Noble Marquis were not unfounded. In
the Great North of England Railway many of the Directors of
that Company were owners of coal-fields, and from Durham to
York he believed that coals were carried for id. per ton.
his Noble Friend, therefore, had some authority for the state-
ment which he made with respect to the reduced rates. The
owners of railways were becoming coalowners, and coalowners
directors of railways, and he had no doubt that coals, by the
force of competition, would soon be carried at 1. per ton per
mile. A ton of coals might be conveyed to London, at this
rate, from the great coal-fields of the north at 6s. 3d. per lon.
The present charge on the freight of coasting ships for light-
house dues alone was from 3/. 10s. to 41. per cent., which in-
creased the price of coals. He therefore hoped that they
would adopt means to relieve the coasting trade of the country
from such exorbitant charges.
Lord A SIIBURTON spoke in favour of the coasting trade,
and considered that while they were expending millions on the
- navy they ought to protect the ships engaged in the coasting
trade.
Lord BROUGHAM considered that the navy sould be sup-
ported as heretofore, in a manner which would do honour to
the country. lie was also in favour of supporting the mari-
time trade of the country in an efficient and proper manner,
but he considered thet it -hould be left to legitimate means—
to its own resources. Let restriction be removed from the
commerce of the country, and the maritime trade of Britain
would require no pecuniary assistance at the hands of the
State. He did not object to their removing some of the
burdens which at present pressed upon the Newcastle trade,
but he did most positively object to their taking such a one-
sided view of the case as that they ought to discourage their in-
land communication, for the purpose of unnaturally encourag-
ing another branch of their commerce.
Lord ASHBURTON did not mean to say that the coast-
ing trade had fallen off, but he protested against the assump-
tion, that by increasing the wealth and commerce of the coun-
try, they were necessarily improving the coasting navigation,
upon which the defence and independence of the nation rested.
It was a fallacy, too, for Noble Lords to suppose that it was
always to the advantage of the country to purchase in the
cheapest market. For instance, it would be much better for
them to pay a little more for their fish when caught by English
fishermen than to have it cheaper when caught by Dutchmen.
Acting, however, upon the latter view of the case, Government
had removed the protection from some of our fisheries, and the
consequence had been a falling off in the trade.
Lord STANLEY denied that any reduction had taken place
in the trade of the country from a removal of the protection
formerly given to the whale fisheries.
Lord COLCHESTER thought it highly important that the
colliery trade should be maintained and fostered as much as
possible, inasmuch as that part of the coasting trade formed
the great nursery for cur seamen.
The Earl of HADDINGTON remarked that a great deal
of the coasting trade was now carried on by steamers, and,
therefore, that part of it which was carried on by sailing ves-
sels, became of more importance to the country. He did not,
hovever, think that there had been any diminution in the
coasting trade. On the contrary, he thought it had rather
increased than diminished.
After a few words from Lord KneNeran and Lord WHARN-
ctirrE, whe maintained that there had been no falling off in
the coasting trade.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that he concurred
with the First Lord of the Admiralty that it would be better,
even if coals or timber did cost a little more in conveyance by
sea, to pay the additional cost than to damage the coasting
trade. - His reason for moving for the returns was not prompted
by any personal interest he had in the subject, but because he
believed that coalowners, when they found the land carriage
he much cheaper, would prefer it to the exclusion of the sea
conveyance altogether. The consequence of this would be
that the coasting trade would be ruined. Coals at the pit only
cost 7s. 61, and the carriage to London made up the amount
to 16s: He would like, therefore. to know, since c tals were
sold in' London at 26e. per ton, what became of the difference?
He thought that if measures were not taken to remove the re-
strictions to which the shipping were liable, in the shape of
harbour dues, &c:, there would be an end to tne carriage of
coals by sea.
The- Duke of WELLINGTON wished to say one word in
favour of a corporation which had conferred upon the country
the greatest benefit—he meant the Trinity Board. lie hoped
that in any regulations which might be made with respect to
the coasting trade, or the harbour dues, their Lordships would
fake care that the lights on the coast of England should claim
a slue share of their attention.
'ihe subject then droepel
RAILWAYS.
Lord BROUGHAINI presented a petition from certain
miners in Staffordshire in favour of the narrow gauge.
A desultory conversation then ensued about the broad and
narrowleauge, the London and Birmingham Railway Company
having raised their tolls contrary to agreement, and railway
I,ll"eettelies in general, in which Lords brougham, Rederdale,
fieelwrt on, and the elarquie of Clanrivartle, took part, whets
The Duke of RICHNIOND said that I:e did nut intend to
enter iroo the question of the pugs's, for he had not not read
enougleuison the subject to enable him to cons s to a deaision
upe it. Bet he thought it yi ry desirable that Parliament
shouitl decide upon the tolls and rates of carriage
There
were Lot two railway Bills that came into that House that had
She ,attrio tone. They could only hope, therefore, to prevent
this inequality by an Act of s'arliement, which would make it
compulsory on railway companies to revise their scale of
tolls every five years. —( Heer, hear.) Somethisee, of this
bind also was required to prevent l 'ir_e companies from buying
up small cumpartea, and 11l 'HI acquiring a prependetance in
these cernoanies, and thus c.-eat tee s monopoly, lie thought
ti-int the injuries arising- to the interests of the pubic from a
menepoly of this kind should be eut an end to.
The Marquis of CLANIIICARDE gave notice that, on
hion,!ay irexf, he would brii'g ferward a motion relating to the
standing cratrs.