The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-02 00:00:00

orward his amendment, feeling it absolutely necessary that
when there was nothing in the speech but accounts of pro -
perity, while great distress pervaded the great mass of the com-
munity, so severe that the population could not be afflicted with
them, and at the same time subordinate to the law, the Crown
should be informed of the real state of the country. He had re-
ceived instructions from his constituents at Rochdale to adopt
the measures which he now proposed. Of course he meant no
discourtesy to her Majesty, but he thought it right to give her
that information which they ought to receive from the repre-
sentatives of the people. He should not press on the conside-
ration of the House any arguments on the subject, further than
to move that the amendment be added to the 10th paragraph in
the address.
The address, which was an echo of the speech, and the
amendments, having been put by the Speaker, and no Member
rising to address the House, strangers were ordered to with-
draw, when
Mr. WARBURTON rose to address the House. He did
so because he thought that any Hon. Member who intended to
vote should state his reasons for doing so. If the Hon. Mem-
ber who had moved the amendment—he alluded to the Hon.
Member for Rochdale—meant by that amendment to stop the
supplies until the grievances of the people were redressed, he
could assure him that that was not the vote he was inclined to
give. Formerly, when the Crown ventured to commit Mem-
bers to the Tower, to stop the supplies was a justifiable pro-
ceeding. They knew one another well ; they knew that civil
war was inevitable, and that the House of Commons was fully
prepared to support the cause of the people. In those times
the evils of stoning the supplies were not of the extent which
such a proceeding would now entail on the Crown. Colonies
at that time this country had none ; hut if they stopped the
supplies now they would throw all the foreign establishment
of the country into confusion. Formerly the Crown had va-
rious revenues by which it was supported, but now the reve-
nues of the Crown were little or nothing. At that time the
stopping of the supplies was just ; but it would not be so now.
He thought with the Hon. Member for Montrose that the
estimates were capable of large reduction, and that in
addition to that reduction a larger deduction might be made
in the naval and military service of the country. A con-
siderable alteration might be made in the collection of the
revenue. When he came into the House he had no intention
of addressing it, but as his vote might be liable to misrepresen-
tation if he gave it for the motion of the lion. Member for
Rochdale, he thought it right to say thus much, and with this
explanation he should vote for the Hon. Member's motion.
Nil% WALLACE had not, when he entered the House, en-
tertained any intention of addressing them that evening, but
he felt bound to offer an explanation of the vote which he in-
tended to give in favour of the amendment which had been
proposed by his Hon.' Friend 'the Member for Rochdale. He
agreed with his Hon. Friend the Member for Kendal, as to
what had been the former practice of the House, but to such
a condition had the people now been brought, that the House
must proceed a little faster and a little further than they had
hitherto done, or they would be brought to a stand still.—
( A laugh). This was not a time to be fastidious, and he
would support the Hon. Member for Rochdale in hi! attempts
to stop the supplies. whenever he might be of opinion that
circumstances might require it.—( A laugh). Hon. Membees
might laugh, but !perhaps they might have an opportunity of
judging on the subject before the session was over.—( Re-
newed laughter). He did tact say when he would do it. He
would not say whether he should de it on the first occasion that
the supplies were proposed, or not, but whenever he should see
occasion he would do so most assuredly. He supported the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Rochdale.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL would have been satisfied with
giving a silent vote against the amendment of the Hon. Mem-
ber tor Rochdale, had it not been for the speech of the Hon.
Member for Kendal, and for that of the Hen. Member who had
just sat down. After that speech, however, he thought he
might as well take the opportunity of delivering his sentiments,
not only on the motion now before the House, but on the
general address, which had been so ably moved and seconded
by the Noble Lord and the Hon. Gentleman opposite.—
( Hear, hear). With respect to the motion of the Hon.
Member for Rochdale, if the Hon. Gentleman meant to say
that the House of Commons ought to have the power to inquire
into and to redress grievances, why, if the majority of that
House were persuaded that it was fit to inquire into certain
matters, and thought that certain remedies were necessary, he
knew of nothing in the address which could prevent such a ma-
jority from engaging in such inquiries, or from adopting such
measures ; and the insertion of those words proposed to be in-
serted by the Hon. Gentleman would be totally unnecessary. ---
( Cheers). But if it meant that it was intended that a minority
nottthe for
honourthe pain
of that House should stop the proceedings of the majority—
sahowofsoeftisyldio
sfs,tttt:h. necessary
the (se sniuunpn,ptl
r,
buteys—ftosf supplies—necessary,
until
weref
hat
an
t minorityth se
hhp
leeioem:7—ilaneliannr liteniesnnegas:vnahe'Arie. vra:olsi
IP' the majority should be forced upon them by obstruction and
delay—he would at once say that to steps of that kind he would
never give his sanction, and that he would never give any vote
which should tend to that purpose.—( Loud cheers). He thought
that in the first ease there was no need to introduce the words

proposed, which were merely superfluous; and in the second cave,
he was glad to embrace the earliest opportunity to express his
dissent from projects which he had seen had been broached
elsewhere, of forcing the opinions of a minority, by means of
obstruction and delay upon a majority of that deliberative
House of Parliament.—( Cheers. ) With respect to the speech
from the throne, and to the address itself, he was glad to find that
the topics touched upon were treated in such a manner as to
meet with his concurrence, so far as his vote on the address was
concerned.--( Cheers. ) The Hon. Member for Montrose had
said that it would be the better course, as there were so many
topics touched, that the House should have time to deliberate,
so as to form an opinion upon each topic. According to the
method which had in former times been adopted with regard
to the speech of the. Sovereign, it might, perhaps, have been
advisable to adopt the plan proposed by the Hon. Member for
Montrose ; but according to the method which had been
adopted of late years, and which, perhaps, was more adapted to
our own times, it had been more usual, both in the speech and
the address, to treat the various topics touched upon in such a
manner as not to oblige the House to come to any opinion on
matters of doubt and controversy—not to call upon the House
to express any decided opinion except upon questions which
had been over and over again discussed, on which Members
were tolerably agreed, such, for instance, as the maintenance
of the legislative union with Ireland.—(Cheers.) On other topics
it had of late years been usual to thank the Crown for the com-
munication which had been made, and to reserve those other
topics for separate discussion or separate motions.—(Cheers. )
With respect to the annexation of Sinde for instance, if he
had been called upon to thank her Majesty for having under-
taken a military aggression against Sinde, he must say he
should be anxious to pause and inquire before expressing an
opinion on the subject, but the address had beers very properly
framed, anti it only called upon the House to thank her Ma-
jesty for the information she had been pleased to communicate
to them, and for the promise of further papers and information.
The Hon. Member for Montrose had complained that there
have
to
had been twenty-three different topics introduced into the
address, but while these topics were treated in th:s manner, he
apprehended
introducedhendedthatifitnhteorethheadadbdeerensss,3 oftihnesteHadouse would
23
different
very little difficulty in paying the compliment to the Crown of
agreeing to the address without a division. There was one
topic which had been treated of in the speech, not, however,oe
in such a mariner as to preclude him from voting in favour of
the address, but en which he thought it necessary so say a
few words He meant the state and condition of Ireland.—
( Hear, hear.) Ile agreed that while the proceedings to
which allusion had been made were pending before the judicial
tribunals in Ireland, it would be impossible with a due regard
to the proceedings of the Courts of Justice to discuss topics
which involved the conduct of persons who had to defend
themselves before those Courts. It was therefore
impossible at present to discuss those questions fully.
But he wished now to be most decided and pointed in precluding
himself from any supposition that he gave his approbation to
the conduct which had been pursued by the Government —to
their most unfortunate proceedings—or to the measures which
the Crown was now pursuing or proposed to pursue with refer-
ence to the calamities which now ,afflicted Ireland. With the
few words he had thus uttered he quitted that subject. A
friend behind him had just reminded him that he had given
notice of his intention, at an early day, to bring the whole state
of Ireland under the consideration of the House, and he fully
intended to do so, subject, however, to the circumstance that
by the time hu had fixed for his moti, n, the trials now pending
would be brought to a close.—( Hear, hear.) If this a,ere
not the case—it at the time fixed the trials were still pending
—then he should venture to ask the House to give him
the preference of the earliest day after their con-
clusion.—( Hear, hear.) There were several topics treated
on in the speech, in which he was most happy to express his
concurrence. Ile was very glad to find that with respect to
China a commercial treaty had been made between the two
countries likely to be advantageous to both, and that the
Chme,e Government and our own had both been of the same

opinion, that the advantages we had obtained for ourselves
should be extended to all other nations. He quite agreed in
the sentiment expressed by the Hon. Member for llontrnse
(Mr. Hume) that conduct like this was becoming such a
great nap ion as England, evincing as it did a conciliatory and
noble feeling towards other nations, and a continued and un-
abated confidence in our own resource• and enterprise.—( Hear,
hear.) He was glad also to find that after the panic which
had been expressed at the exceeding might and power •f the
Emperor of China—(Loud laughter)—that the dread which
formerly pervaded those now on the other side of the
House at the almost irresistible strength of three
hundred millions, had somewhat abated—(Loud Laughter)_
and that it was now with them matter of congratulation that
we had not submitted to the ignominy—(Hear, hear)—of
having British subjects confined and threatened to be put to
death if they did not agree to certain peremptory terms. We
had vindicated British honour ; and so far from the result
being as calamitous as then it was predicted it would be, our
just demands had been enforced by the naval and miliiary skill
of the commanders and forces, and by the diplomatic skill •f
Sir H. Pottinger, acting under the directions of his Noble
Friend the Member for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) ; and we
had obtained terms which, so far from being dishonourable,
gave hopes of advantages greater than even they had a right to
expect.—(Cheers). The speech alluded to the good under-
standing which we now enjoyed with France, and to the pacific
relations which existed between us and the principal Powers
of Europe. He most unfeignedly rejoiced at these intima-
tions, and trusted that our policy would continue to insure that
good understanding. He ( Lord John Russell) was one who
had been frequently taunted on the subject of the French
alliance—with being too fond of that alliance, in contempt of
other alliances with the more despotic Powers of Europe.
It was imputed to them that, after the alliance
had lasted a considerable time, they were the cause
of breaking that alliance and good understanding.
Ile was happy to find, by some declarations recently
made in an Assembly of another country, by persons of autho-
rity—by the late Prime Minister of France and the present
Minister of France—that if there had been any decline in the
intimacy and good understanding, that such was not owing to
any act on their parts, but because France, for various rea-
sons, and from various motives, began to look to other ideas
and other feelings, which, as he thought, she ought never io
have done, and then the good understanding between them would
never have been impaired. With regard to the treaty of July,
154 1, he was most happy to find, from the Minister of Foreign
Affairs, that France had now reverted to her ancient policy,
thereby signifying that, for a time, there had been a depar-
ture from it. That ancient policy had been to maintain the
integrity of Turkey by the protection and assistance, not of
one or of another, but of all, the great Powers. In that
spirit they had acted, and in that spirit he thought France
ought likewise to have acted. But, unhappily, she had wan-
dered from her usual track, and turned to worship some Egyp-
tian idol—(♦ laugh)—that for a time had charmed her. But
glad was he to find that she had deserted that new track, and
returned once more to her ancient and her true policy.
Glad should he ever be that our good under-
standing was renewed with that great country. which he
looked upon as one of the most inteldgent ansi power-
ful in Europe, distinguished alike in letters, arts, and arms.
Other parts of the speech turned upon the present state of our
industrious population. Ile was happy to hear from the Hon.
Gentleman who had seconded the address, that there were great
signs of improvement in the manufacturing districts. He had
no doubt that although there had been exaggeration in some
quarters, much real and solid improvement had taken place.
If they came to inquire into the causes of that improvement
they would no doubt find that one of the greatest causes was
the abundance of the harvest of last year and the year before.
He was making some inquiries the other day with respect to
the price paid for food by some poor families. He found that
in one family there was this year a saving of one shilling a week
for the consumption of bread. If they considered the number
of families who must be in the same condition, it seemed not
improbable that some Millions had Seen raved in food) to be