The Sun.
London, England, 1810-04-19 00:00:00

LATE DISTURBANCES.

Ldrd 'OssuLsToNE, -adVerting to -tbe unfortu=
rtate.6atii of au individual, in Piccadilly, on Sti-
Itirday, the 7th,inst. and to the ver4i6t .ot. the Co-
.roner s Jury on. the body, viz. " Wilful murder by
a soldier unknown," wished to ask the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite, whether his Majesty bad been
'advised, or whether it was in the contemplation of
Government to.advise his Majesty to issue a Procla-
mation, offering a reward for the apprehension of
the offender ?
Mr. Secretary RYDPI, in reply, stated- that be
had instituted a.-stri6l inquiry, w-hich.was.still pend-
ing, into the oondu6t of the soldieri on, the. one
,hand, and of the populace on the other, in the un-
fortunate -case .alluded to by the Noble-Lord; and
the result of that inquiry (as far as it had gone)
was, that in no instance. in. the annals of the coun-
..try, in .which it bad been found necessary to call ,out
the tior;ps, had they .ever behaved with more .tem-
per and moderation tba6 on the recent occasion.7.,-
They had borne being pelted with stones, and .fired
:it with shot, as had been proved by the most re-
AiEta'ple authority, with a forbearancePerfealy un-
ex-ampled. Such was their general condu6l; and
it. \sas,his duty to state, that in ihe unfortunate
'case"mentioned
by the Noble Lord, not a single
sLot was tired by the Soldiery until they,had received
Several shots from.the neighbouring houses. tinder
these,eircumstances he had.not thought it his duty
to advise his Majesty to issue such a proclanAtion as
;lilt described by the Noble Lord, nor had: he it in
contemplation -to offer to, his
.Majesty any such

advice. .
, Nfr. W,HITESIIBAD,petfeaIIy agreed with the Right
Hon. Gentleman, both-from his own observation,
and from the reports of others, that during the late
disturbanees the soldiers hdd condttaed thernSelves
wilb great moderation, but did -the sight Hon.

Oe.ntlenian, standing st" he' dial in 1111 A—iie‘tv,s.
Collncils--;SeCretary of grate for, the Horne 156p4ri-
ment, think that ast.lfficijilt aiiss,vr to Ilia, 'Noble
Filen(' ? I3id he,thilik

1. The SPEAKER observed thete was no question
before the House.
Mr. WOITBR.EA-D said; 'that 'undonbtedry there
was no question before the House, but that he was
jilst►fieti in—
The CHANCELLOR of OP Z*onpatiEnisPoke to'
Order. A question had been pit to his Ri4LA
:Friend, which his Right Hon. Frieild had answered.
In ge.rmitting that. the;HOuse had not- passed the
• line of their usual- indulgence, which he presumed
they would pass
.;if any additional observations were
permitted:to be made. He had no.objeetion what-
ever, to a 'future discussion of this business ; but he
objeed to-anr further. 6tatentent when there was
no
.11)01i011 before the.l4.l)llSO.

Mr. WHITIIREACO declared that he would epd
what he had to say, by making a motion.
Tile" BPEAK ER -stated, that, in cases in which a
gilestion was put on the o.ie -hand, and answered
on the other, the House had always felt the incon-
venience of prolonging the conversation. If out
of the answer to any question, grounds for furtherdiscussion should appear to any Honourable.Mem-
Oer to exist, it was the usage for such Hon. Mem-
ber to, give notice of a motion, and not make one op
the instant.

.Mr. .:considerable warmth,
asserted that he had .3 right:to -make a motion with-
out notice, and of that light he would then avail.
himself. His motion 'n'.33; "That the Verdict of
the Coroner's InqUest 'be laid before the. HoUse."
The doetrine. of 'the Right Hon: Qentleman was
the most extraordinary he bad ever heard. Had
that' Right HOn. Geetlemen ever kmiwn such a
verdict of ..a.Coronees.lnq:eest, and no further _in-
. qUiry following it ? that the,Righr Hon. Gen--
tleman had stated might be l:tronglit out before a
aA- ought In go to one, but was it to he en-
dured--would it be,' either in or Out of tile 1-I,)use,
that no further inquiry should be "mado ? Was it
not even indispensable tor .the exculpation of the
soldiers thus generally Charged,, and' who would be
mutt) -better ,vindieated by a tral before. a Jury,
than•by any.explanation -of .the. Right Hon. Gentle-
man. It was- impossible to stop at_ t his stage of the
business, with any. regard to the feelings of the
country,-or ,to the :feelings of the soldiers them,
selves. If they could be vindicated,
.lettheco
Aliodicated before a Jor.y.,..afweititeri to,try
.whether,
a murder had actually-been-committed or, not. •.If,
as the Right Hou. Gentleman' had said, no shot-had
been -fired..by •the soldiers, till.shot bad been fired at
them by ihtpopulace, then 'certainly they: would
stand exculpated ; butcould the Right HA.u. Gen-
'ilerivin pretend tp.argue that the general- gpod coon
duet_ of the SoicysersouOt ,to scteen''ari.individeal,
who unassailed might have comninted an id of
wanton goilt ? Let,it be proved before a Juryohat a
harmless passenger in the street, like himself or the.
RightJFlon..Geutlernan, had not been wantonly fired
at by an unprovoked Soldier. If no such act had
best-.committed, why .were-such difficulties thrown
in the war of .further ivesttgation ? If it had
been committed, ought not the .Peblic
.besatis-
fied ?,• Ought not the charaaer of the. person
slain 'to be jUstified.? Ought not the good disposi-
tion of the 'great body. of the troops to be vindi-•
cated ; Availing hirristlf•of theright which he pos.!.
sessed (which lie would have been indisposed to do
had he not been' driven to it), be moved that the
Coroner's Inquest be laid before the. House. •
The SPEAK-E Said; that in ilieinterrepttort which
he had given to the Hon. Member, he had done
ne more than'repeat the e'vpitis atht,4llouse. If,
after such a statement on'llycloart, the Hon. Metn-
ber persisted in his intention, the affair was in the
hands of the House, and it was for them to decide
upon it.
Mr. WHITBREAD gave ~perfe& credit to- the
Speakerfor doing no more than that which was
Consistent with his duty to do ; bat he would re-
mind-the House (he was-sure that it was not.neces-
sary to remind the Chair) that a resolution had,
dui ing_the last Session, on the Speaker _s_particolar
case, been moved without notice by -a Right • ElOn.
Gentletrian, and carried, when lie (Mr. W.) and
others, who would have .wished to be present,-.had
left the-House.

• M. CANNING., as the Hononrable Gentleman
had alluded to the motion which he (Mr.:Canning)
had conceived it necessary to. make during, the last
session, in justification of the Speaker's conduct, Oc-
plained that that motion arose out of events which
had taken .place in the course,of the same evening ;
a'nd' which had created in him a .reluctance to the
separationof the House without :bringing the subject
diStinetly before Ahem -for their opinipn. Tijat- was •
a case, therefore, of so particular a nature, that
-it could scarcely be adduced Bib a precedent. At_
the , same ,time, he • readily Rchnitied that the
4.lonoutible Gentleman had exercised an undouht-
-ed right ; he should, however, vote against hirri,.
on the single ground that •the iiouse were taken.
by. surprise.

Mr. W. SMITH, while he: ,cheerfully ted
that. the Speaker exercised the discretitt repose,' in
:him, by the House in 'a manner that must afford
general satisfa&ion, yet contended, that the doc-
trine maintained by the Bight HonourableSecretary
of. State was of such a nature, that thetcountry at
large :would be much dissatisfied were= it to 'pass
without immediate animadversion. Willing as he
was„from his own personal Observation,and 'from the
reports of others, to bear testimony "to the general.
good condu& of the soldiery, yet, when a Coroner's
Inquest -bad brought in a vordiii of .wilful murder,
It was' most extraordinary to hear a Secretaty Of
State say 'that he was making such 'and snob, htqui-
xies ; thus potting himself in the placeof a Jury of
the country. • He did hope that the-Tight Honour-:
able Gentleman had .made his declaration rashly,
,and without being aware of its tendency and extent.
As had been well argued by his Honourable Friend,
if ten thousand men behaved .well, it did not fol-
low that one-might not be guilty of.rnurder. When
a Coroner's inquest brought in Overdid- of (c.Wilfnl,
Murder against-a person unknown,' it a; only bY.
a Jury that the case: could he .tried.—The Secretary
,of State was a Justice of Peace; did he in-1..; king
the inquiry which lie ha 4 deLcribed,.talte. the depo-
sitions:on oath ?. On such a-trial as his, the right and
.wroog.of the case couldneyer be permitted to stand.
He repeated his persuasion, that the Ilidht Him.
,Gentleman would have.beenmoTe guarded had he

been as.i/ate of the tendency and extent of his ob:,
.
• ,

Secretary.RYDri wasirate til for the. Oppo-
rtunity afforded hint of expla'ifing-tiituself. e was'',
perf.dly ready to rerassert, that the line fAen by H
his Alaysty's Governiiient was the only line
consistently with their duty, it was possible for them
to adopt. The I-lon. Gentleman oppositv must have
stratibllfiniStincleissitiod' him when he- repres,lited.
that no inquiry had, taken:place-. He-(IVIT. Pt.) hati
disti tidly stated to the Howe. it.the uiur.st a.tli•ik_E
former observations, that as soon
,as the facts were
known to his Naiesty,'s Goverrinient, - -inst itut-
ed a s!ri6t inquiry. into the conduct of the populace
on one hand, and of the troops on -the other ;„:rna•
the result was; that they had resolved to advise .liiS
..Majesty not to issue any proclamation ou the $1313-
jeCt. Another Hon.-Gentleman hart asked 'whether
the inquiry had taken place on oath ? It was neees-•
• sary that the nature of the evidence to he_given be-
fore the Privy
,Council
,should,be. previously ex-
. atnined.; Some witnesses: had .been el-omitted
before the • Privy - Council on. 'oath ; others had
been examined by other persons, in order to
ascertain whether.or not their evidence ought
.to
be given before the Privy Council on one side of the
question or on the other. He said on one side or on
the other, although. it did .not appear that in•any
case the troops shad acted in a manner which could
call for disapprobation.; The inquiry
,was still pro-
ceeding. Hitherto, certainly, he, for one, had not
thought it expedient to. advise, his. 111 tjeSty to issue
his Proclamation. The Hon..GentleMan opposite
seerned.tO think/ that it was indispensable to issue a

a Royal Proclamation ..vbenever a Coroner's Inquest
'bri)ught in a verdict of Wilful Murder. This .was
to him a new principle. Whenever,this question
came to be agitated—which he trusted it would not •
to' night, although the Hon. Gentlenian had thought .
proper to make his motion without any notice, in
contradiCtion to the uninterrupted usage of- the
House, for which akae he should .opposeit —but
whenever the Hon. Gentleman tnight choose to
bring it-forward, at•corct .to't he rec(.ignisea-pniCtice
of the House, he had no doubt of being tulle able:to vindicate the conduct _of Government, and .to
prove that they woyld have Elect erroneous-
-Iy, had 'they, on the evidence *before them ad-.
vised his Majesty to issue his Royal l'roclarnation.
Lord OS SULSTON g bore testimony . to the gene-
ral good conduct of the soldiers, and 'explained the
particular grounds.on which the Jury had given their
verdict.

Mr. Alderman CoMBE ;said. few. words, bt2t
with such -rapidity of :utterancer. that we could
not distinalyoomprehend. their tone. As far as
we could collect the -sentiments.-of the worthy
Alderman, he exprt!ssed his approb.nion_ of the
general good Cotidu6t of the' tr00p,,,, but support-
ed the motion as giying on opportunity of con.
sidering,, whether the Coroner's.; •verdi6l ought to
form a ground for any. Parliamentary procce4tlg;

The CffAN,CE4OII .of the EXaliEoXklit, declared
that the Hon: Gentleman had entirely departed
from the course which the Househad hitherto pre-- ;
scribed to Themselves. .In.the•;- first place, he' had,
made a motion without having• given alaY--tioilee;.'
and in-the-second place,-he had-inade a, motion,-al-
though there were several -notices on the paper
which-were entitled to priority. • _ What .was the•ur-
gency of 'the _easewhieh demanded that the motion
should
.beniide on that clay ? Was there any thing
to be -immediately proposed in consequence• of 'it )
What itrss the Hon: Gentkman's object ? Fie .had
only made thelnotion because, he had been iwer-
rupted in irregularity. Ile had- notl isen to- make the
niolion, but hel-e.ld made the motion to protect-him-
self. He had taken thee-HOuse bysurprise, find:un-
prepared: On that ground alone the motion ouglit
to -be negatived ; for there was no for . de-
-parting from the established usage. ,
kitty Uf that consideratiOn, were the 116-Use to take
into their own hands the ad_ministration of justice
while in its progress ? Were (hey. to..be-the inspee-,
tors of .Verditts of Coroner's Inquests and- incliti-
ments for murder ? Were they to . stand in- the si-
tuation of grand jurors ? If any abuse had .occur-
red, that would be a sufficient ground for a Parlia-
-mentary --proceeding. But what answer had his
Right Hon. Frieed.• made to the question, whether .
or slot his Majesty-had, been advised to issue a pros
• clanration offering a reward ler the apprehension of
the2oblender'? His Hint. Friend had replied in the
negative; and had added, that -as far -as he could
judge-froidilie--inqeiry which had -been -instituted
into the circumstances of the case, that he did- not
Oink, he should be disposed to recommend . such a
proe:editig ; the inquiry, however, still 'pending,
the result of which -might alterhis opinion. ilf.the
-House hadinstituted -The same inquiry as .his Majes-
Vs. Government, they would have arrived, at the
_satire conchision. It evidently' appeared that the
Ae.laiers.lad .behaved .with marked alastinenctegene,
rally ; but that•on the particular -.spot which was the
scene of the unfortunate event
,in which the discus-
sion originated, the assembled :in
,art alley,
.which prevented the hosesfrom approaching them
and assailed the soldiers with, brick bats, and even
fired at them with
.ball. He *saw an Hori. Officer
,in his place, who having been on duty in that part
of the town, on that occasion, could,. if he were
-so -Cisposed, allord -every • satisfattory information ,
on the subject.
•If the House_eetcrialued the me.-
tion before iliern,• they Would depart from the nrad-
•tice 'which had been found convenient for such a '
length-of ,time,-
,and would soon have cause -to re-
pent that departure. • . _ -
Captain AGAlCfsltshiti-pielf called upon, in conse-
queuce of what had ,fallerefrorri the Bight Hon. the.,
Secretary -of State, and from the -Right Hon. the
Chancellor of the f!xcliequer to state to the 1-Ithise
-What lie-knew upon the subjeCl, having-en SatUrday
:the 7th' inst. been on duty in that part of -Piccadilly,
;where the.tnifOrtwiate cent Which was now under
discussion had oestit(ed—an -event deeply painful to
the feelings both_of the civil andof the Mil itaryforee.
Ile lamented to rise oft-suchm a serious and elan-
choly decisiOn,- bet .he begged leave-to state-'the
Cumstanc4 Which he had witnessed;-as from liiiown
situation>, on--the, spot_ (near St.- ,Tamer's Church),--
from his7ownknowledge, and-from ,theknowledge
Of.others (he Wiring' as an Of particattrlty -;in-
ve,tigated the.transaa'tiOn), he was persuaded that he
coeld,give information-which it w%isout of die,power
etany taller Hon. Menthe!' afford -or pro'cure. .
Would take-I:1,1in himself positively to assert, that,
before any firing-on the part of the troops, the popu-
lacefixed upon the soldiers. One man near him wad

:1

•
shot with a b the jaw. Rhti after 11,15
occurrence, the soldiers were not allowed to load
their pisthis, but the .Magistrates exerted their
thorny to repress further outrage. Both the civ".
and military power were, however, 'pelted by
Err
populace, and fiont. ten to twenty shots were fir):
b; the people bet-ore he heard one fired by the '"
djeis• -1-td.d.u.l.not-scate thiTAS liearsoy, but
ter 'dfilltr,lte-15-etrig"Atet dlity at -the place, when
there was a consider able detaltnent of .f 0-to
9:11.,.men, and not! rue re a rear guard, as an 11'4'.;
-C.:4entleinan had tnistal.etili conceived.. ..Shoull "1:4
su
~
biea e .discussed at any ure +olio J, Ike vvo,
go into g:caree lengths' upon it', bn.t..attliat ,h 4our "
o'clock; be. cfi ttof thivk it was necessary to add ant
thing to- that Viltich-le had already stated.
'Mr. LA S CIL did not aprrotie 01 this sort oi Pt;;.
Ctl3iloll, as. might-se-34;mi ita.djvidtiitl before a JorY
be trieci•fOr. life--under circumstances sf4cY,Pr4`l..
and oppres6i ve.
Mr. WiimittEnD rose, ,and 'had sqai-culy -leg° to
speAarr.whc-iteonx-
Ea po
ice
outer.
if
had. a right' to make a- tuotiOU 121 •
Iforrnsof the House he had -no right to :Sri" •P
s...cond time. •
• Al-uri tom;

;ter a few questious-.from :tho.Spe--
,point in question,
do Mr. WHITBREAD Sai4vtlicy Might ~Irtv.o ~N, ,
,_.l' he
his lutentiori of 'speaking, if they hati-roov‘i- 'a,
previous question, but lie had a right to rsplf• pe
knew nothing•of the Noble Lord's-intention toPorr....
the subjed forward—he wished to throw.no i'!')1),:,
tation on the military, but he was pro'Oked by tilt,
:language of the Right Hon-. Setretary to e;.il,rB'.s'l,
opinions on the stibled.- Interrupted in his sp,'t..c.e,l
to prated himself he madethe motion which wa.s;t%,l
before the ,House,; and "which, on serious reiiefai.,..
and mature deliberation, he thought had been Trou.:,
perly made. . Though it was customary to give t'4-1
(ice-of a motion, on some occasions that usage b"_,. I
been neglecred. Mr. Pitt; as some Gtuledie":_,
might remember, orice made a motion of winch LP-I.:i
previous notice had been giOrn, - on which A &Pal!
took place w1,44:h had lasted from five in the 0151
noon
.till eleven at night. It.was the right of evtili
Member so to bring on a motion, and being ,a rig,,l
no one had authority tocontroul it. Ou former.
cussiuns, he had contended, that it-was a right,whit:.:
every one had, but-WhidioUghroot-often to be us ,
t,,1
that on special occasions it might be exercised %ll'
the ,greater effect.- He had never found it. 13.04,5:
sat"), to avail himself of it before.. Whatever , to!
HOtise might think et him in other- respects 11*
thought it would not .cornAin ofa.want.of courtesy
on Its part in :failing. I 0 give due. notice of the 1"'",
t ions. he.intendult it, wake. •,ishe.sentimen,, of Ilia ,
Right -Hon-. Secreiary, as it apt. ~.t ....('.4 ',nad.ini!.iP';:
I
crcrood tilelli,lhongb:hewas rattier ;Iit:MANI to 0111.
that the 4ight HOU—Secretary-had r:th-:•sticted the!"
as his secood -speechdifferedMaterially' f: 003 !Pl!' '
tirsti_had called him thili.: Knuwiag.as.he tha tlIA; :.
17#1.4VhcliTt'74t7i*Ep.iiii'litary had beeh .(44.42C,W1Ti'1i
bl4.*-1117i7t=SV.014.1.rfUi ::.I,i tamer ere-had-prritirrry.
thetiedW to the HcoSe,-it the good,cbitduct or •Pa
'many
.ought to .screen one'otiendtYlrotir jus,,icc. ?.:t.
Ho called upon the Riglit 'Hon. Gentierooti,to,oY I
the soldier.was
.khow-ti :that killed the'Man ? ,'lt 14 *
'were.known, lie ought to be designated, if; justice t° ;
thesbldiery.—The Coroiier'slitquest was out to 08
thotight lightly tir; its, result dependaig uo dew,P-
sitions taken op oath, and.the :opinion of :a..inryr''
He then compared' thecondoct of
.the city c)1-1-1.6!1"."
don with that of the city of Westminster. I.'ne ;Jct."
ing Magistrate -of the former city was intitled •t°
Much..praise as to his modeiation, and to hilt; ei°ues '
Was .to -he att-iilitii:44l46/*50460,04,-.144),;tt0-spiit:ie-;
frait.-as.it wa3-in titq'debrue,--could-istry tiling-be t)8
to:change his ,opinion on thi4 subject-, he would'
happy to adopt the sentiments of utlierF, but.iit•pre
Aeut he could see no reason for withdrawing -cae
motion. He wished. the vefdict of the Jury lak(-!'bt,
fore them. The House could after wards decide lad
it would be best trproceed.
,of
Mr. TAYLOR said be had been an eye-wifw'ssz
some of transaCtions. He happened-on tile'''g.,:::
turday_nilaht to be passing throdgit the very.stet 1"
which iliiiUtilOrtunate oecutrenee tpok pace.;-14,,,6
had the ,most convincing proofs of the teroper°44t" '
condta of the Hon. Gentleman near 1141-)Ovir'9l
the Officer commanding on the spot. By his 0r.4-e‘--
the,carriage was stopped, and he was desired not tri
proceed immediately, ns the troops haci.been so rail' .
insulted they wero.obliged in some. instances -to tint
on their assailanrs. Heaccoidingly stopped•tor soil •
moments—d.firing io-ok.place, but from the sourw' '':
he: could tell that no ball ,was used.. He .had net got- ,c
touch further, on his way to the Opera, v, hen
ono
;i
then firing burst on his ear, and a musket. was fire,
from a .window. He stopped no longer, but .0100
.-
tbe best.of his way" from The alley. IHe wished ilia
soldier .charged by The_Coroner's Inquest with .wiltli,
murder would sort ender himself. It wouldbeanos`
satisfa6lory to all parties, and he was convinced fronl
all he had beard on. the subjed that no Jur,y.i.vPl=l` ,
hesitate to. acquit the soldier. .-Far from _deservliis
censhte, the condudt of the military was entitled tt'
the highest praise. • - •
Captall) AGAR, in explanation, thought it Could„(
not be known who killed_ the man. , II any one .173';
khOwo it, he thought it could not have.been coo"
cealed•fromitim. . The unfortuoate min 4VIIO :firc4 .
the fatal ball, could not (in all probability) kuow tit
Si tnself. He positively asserted, that at. that .i.ip.4.001 ,
several.shot4 were. tired, and 'fired bt,order of.. the
Malgreata's --• • : •••' . '' •- - ' -
. The questiOri.,,!xas, :diet: put, and negatived t%itll*
out.a divi-gion.. . - -

r

Iwo
'IT 30'
y the
fir,:d