The Sun.
London, England, 1828-05-10 00:00:00

arguments addnvd to justify that reluctance. There could
he no doubt that this was very delicate groand to tread, and
he who should propose to the Crown, on any subject, in
public, especially, to listen to its own particular opinion in
opposition to that of its constitutional advisers, or of the
public, as expressed in Parliament, would undoubtedly be
guilty of a very high offence, and of a degree of presump-
tion which would render him liable to an impeachment. Ile
should content himself, therefore, upon the subject of oaths,
to avail himself of Lord Kenyon's maxim, as laid down
in his correspondence with the late King in 1795—" that
the supreme power never can bind its successors ; and that
that which cannot he done directly, cannot he done indirectly,"
The Right Hon. and Learned Gent., (after arguing in
support of these propositions, on the grounds that the first of
them amounted to no more than to ray—that the supreme.
power was always the same—seeing that if its predecessors
or their engagements would bind it, it must be less poten-
tial than that which so bound it—and that the second
would lie defeated, if it could be supposed that an oath
taken by one party for himself, could indirectly bind the
conscience or free will of another party, claiming to exer-
cise equal volition and power with such other party)—then
contended, that no oath of a former King would necessarily
bind his successor, in respect of acts done by him out of
Parliament, though it might is respect of acts done in it. •
The interpretation of an oath, and the measure of obliga-
tion it imposed, might be a matter solely for the comcienee
of the individual taking it ; but the effect of a political
measure as to the security of the Church, it more properly
belonged to those accustomed to judge of such matters to
determine, and no wise Monarch would refuse to be guided
in such a case by the advice of his Ministers. He begged
pardon for having so long trespassed on the indulgence of
the House, and would conclude by expressing a hope that
the measure for the relief of the Protestant Dissenters would
be followed by a similar measure of relief for the long suf-
fering Roman Catholics of Ireland. Then might it be
said with the Roman of old—" maximum illud pulcheri-
mumque jusjurandum se conserrasse rempublicam."—
(Cheers.)
Mr. Secretary PEEL.—I labour under many difficulties
in rising at the present moment, and not the least are those
under which the Right Hon. Gentleman who has just sat
down has placed me. Ile has told us, Sir, that we who
advocate the maintenance of those laws which we think
are for the security of the Protestant Religion, have such
a mass of authority and such a combination of living talent
arrayed against us, as almost to overpower our reason. Ile
has presented to us a weight of authority so great, that he
thinks we ought to refer to it at once without venturing to
exercise our own judgment. He has told us, moreover, Sir,
that the cause to which we have attached ourselves is hope-
less—lie has enumerated the rising talent enlisted against
it—he tells us that we can boast of no conversions, whilst
on the other side, there are many, and 1 believe sincere
conversions, to swell the ranks of our opponents, already
sufficiently formidable. But, Sir, be that as it may—
be the prospect of ultimate success as dismal as he paints
it—be, oar cause as hopeless as he says it is—be the
amount of conversions against us as he represents—
still, Sir, I think he will admit to me, that having ma-
turely and anxiously deliberated upon this subject, how-
ever small my expectation of converting others to my
opinions, I may, as I am in duty bound, rise in this house
to declare my fixed sentiments.—(Hear, hear.)—Sir, not-
withstanding all that the Right Hon. Gentleman has said
of the hopelessness of the case, I think we owe it to our-
selves, to the country, and to the Crown—such of us as
happen to be Ministers of the Crown—temperately, man-
fully, and firmly to state our opinions.—(l-oud cheers.)—
That, however, which operates more forcibly than any
thing the Right Hon. Gentleman has said, to deter me
from advocating that side of this question to which my
mind has hitherto been pledged, is, after having fre-
quently declared my opinions, and the grounds upon which
they are founded, the painfulness of repeating, I fear to
a reluctant audience, a statement of those grounds. If
my ability to give expression to my own sentiments were
ten• fold what I. can lay claim to, 1 should sensibly feel
this difficulty. But I have no alternative—l have no
desire. to obtrude—but I have been so repeatedly and so
personally alluded to, particularly by the Hon. Baronet
rho introduced the subject to the House, that I have no al-
ternative but to state my opinions fully and broadly to the
Howe. Sir, the Hon. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) his made
a personal appeal to me upon a point which it is impossi-
ble not to perceive is most distasteful to the House. But,
the lion. Baronet hae disclaimed, in the first instance, rest-
ing his proposition upon the broad ground of justice. He
has declared it not to he a question of an ordinary kind,
not founded even upon considerations of abstract principles '
of right; but he has claimed the assent of this House to
his proposition, in the first instance, apart from coneiderae
tins of policy, distinctly upon the ground of a solemn
contract entered into with the Representatives of the
Irish Nation, and whish, for a valuable considera-
tion then given, we are now called upon to per-
form. Ile has claimed, Sir, my conditional assent ou
the ground of a declaration made by me, that whatever the
lapse of time since the date of the Treaty entered into
between King William and an Irish garrison in 1694, and
which the Hon. Baronet has called the Magna Charts of
the Catholics, still, if it could be made apparent_ to me that
any privileges were guaranteed by that treaty, which are
now withholden from the Irish Catholics, it would mate-
rially alter my view of the question. Sir, Ido not mean
to go back from that pledge. The Hon. Baronet is too
manly to give a false colouring to any quotation ; and I
admit the terms which he has imputed to me, and I will
abide by them. Other Gentlemen, I know, think that the
lapse of time is enough to set aside the provisions of the
Treaty of Limerick ; but, with respect to it, I cannot but
say that, to justify the withholding of privileges stipulated
by the treaty, it would require a case of a very different
nature to that which is put forward upon the present oc-
casion, founded upon threatened dangers, or abstract po-
licy. But, Sir, after having again referred to the treaty
upon which the Hon. Baronet rests his position, and hav-
ing also referred to what is much more material, the con-
temporaneous acts and declarations of parties ; and having
done this over and over again, I am now prepared to say,
that if I were in the situation of that tribunal to which

the Hon. Baronet desired to see this question referred—
with as solemn an obligation as would then be imposed
upon me, to decide according to the justice of the case be-
tween the parties to that treaty—l should feel myself bound
to say, that of all the points upon which my mind is free
from doubt, the one in question is that upon which I have
the most clear conviction.—(Cheers.) I do not think it
possible for any one who has read the treaty, and at all at-
tended to its contents, and the state of surrounding con-
temporaneous circumstances, and the part taken by both
parties, not to believe that there is not the shadow of a
foundation for saying that either party ever contemplated
that the privileges of unrestricted admission to offices under
the Crown, and to seats in Parliament, were conceded to
the Roman Catholics of Ireland by virtue of the first article
of that treaty.--( Hear.) I never denied that the first article
had reference to the whole Catholic population. The dif-
ference that I have with the Hon. Baronet is upon this
Point—what is the nature of the security which the first
article was meant to confer upon the Roman Catholics of
Ireland ? . This is the question between the Hon. Baronet
and myself, and I must say, Sir, that the decision of this
question involves considerations of the highest importance.
Sir, I rise upon this occasion to vindicate not only my own
view of the subject, but to rescue from the severest censure
names which have been hitherto, held in honour. 1
allude to the names of King William 111., Lord Somers,
and the
Whig Ministers of that day, i\lr. Pitt, Lord Corn-
wallis,
and Lord Castlereagh. These, Sir, are honoured
names, to which infamy must attach if the Treaty of Li-
merick will hear the construction contended for by the
Hon. Baronet.--(lieu, hear.) I say, Sir, that if the
Hon. Baronet can prove that King William and the Whig
itlinisters of that day, contemplated by that Treaty confer-
ring on the Catholics of Ireland all political privileges, sub-
ject only to the Oath of Allegiance, the charge of infamy
for their subsequent conduct will be indelibly fixed upon
them ; and so far from King William meriting the epithet
of " glorious," so often coupled with his memory, he will
deserve no title but what may be derived from the
evidence of his had faith. tut depend upon it, Sir, that
William and the Whig Alinist,rs
Neither King William nor the
Roman Catholics even contemplated of that day, are not oh-
noaious to such a charge.
lated at.that time the pri-
vileges now claimed by the virtue of the treaty entered into
between them. The proposition of the 11on. Bart. is this,
that the Roman Catholics of Ireland were guaranteed by
the Treaty of Limerick to have every office under the
Crown, and parliament, open to them only upon taking
the oath of allegiance. To assent to this rroposition, as 'a
have already said, is to credit that William, having just
rescued Ireland from the dominion of a Roman Catholic
Parliament, in which were only two Protestants, and hay_
ing secured that country from the undue influence of the
professions of that faith, proposed to crown his triumph
by a measure which tended to restore the
is too absurd to
the Catholics to un-
qualified power.—(Cheers.)--This,
S
require any further confutation.—(Hear.)--The Hon. Ba-
ronet says, that the Roman Catholic Catholic's in all their conduct
at that crisis were only acting upon religious and loyal
feelings of the most warrantable description. But, Sir, he
passes over all the transactions of that Parliament for two
years, which are FCI very material to the formation of a
correct judgment of the character of Catholic proceedings
at that period. 1 agree with the Hon. Baronet in the po-
licy of merging the memory of such tranaactions now; but
if they are to be referred to it, it is not fair to put a false