The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-19 00:00:00

THE SIT N,

LONDO

NI

sent to accede to the prayers of the petitions of the people on
the subject. I thick that if we were to say that we would
not support a Church which we considered anti-acriptural, the
effects would be pernicious in the extreme. In the first place,
the effects would be enormous. We must go beyond
this question. —( Cries of Hear, hear.") We must
go farther. We must extend it to the colonies. We must
make a firm, rigid, and unbending rule, which in a few
years would shake your empire to pieces.—( Hear, hear, and
great cheering.) But admit, for the sake of the maintenance
of the Protestant religion, that such a step should be necessary,
admit for a moment that we are ready to take all the conse-
quencee—admit that you are ready to do this—have you any
right, in such a case, to legislate for the people of Ireland ?
Are you not bound to say this :—" We engaged at the time
of the Union to govern Ireland on principles of equality, to
consider Irishmen as we consider Englishmen, to allow them to
have the same rights and privileges as ourselves, to consider
every question regardine them as a question regarding
ourselves." list then, 'Sir, if that be the case, it is
totally inconsistent with the case of your saying that
your religion is so exclusively true, that it cannot bear any-
thing like equality, nor even anything like favour to the great
majority 'of the people of Ireland. And if that be so, if such
is the strictness of your religious principles, I de'y you to stop
short until you come to the repeal of the union, ns which we
are all opposed. Sir, I say, if you do not meet the Irish people
in this way—if you are nut ready to fulfil the compact of the
union not only to the let' er, but with all the affection for
your countrymen in Ireland which you feel for your country.
men in England—then you should be prepared to say to the
people of Ireland, "We will not grant this boon ; no Will
not make you this grant, therefore we will give you back your
own legislature, and deal in future with your own affairs."—
(Hear, hear.) I own it does appear to me that you have
but one of these two courses to adopt—if you do not agree to
this proposition for the support of the religion of the Irish
people, you must dissolve the ITnion ; but if you wish to main-
tain the Union, you must treat the Roman Catholic people of
Ireland in the same spirit as von have considered the Protes-
tant people of England. —( Loud cheers.) Well, then, I say
that this is not a question of the mere consideration of a fee
thousands a year ; it is the carrying out of an Act of Parlia-
ment fifty years old, and therefore you arc bound to carry it
out if you are desirous of maintaining the union of the
two countries inviolate.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Remember that we, at this side of the House, have had no-
thing to do with the making of this proposlion—we merely
say we concur in the proposition. and are prepared to vtee in
favour of the second reading of the Bill, and nut because it is
a proposition of an exclusively religious character.—( Hear.)
I cannot conclude without expressing my belief that the re-
jection of this measure will be productive of the same bitter-
ness of feeling that would be certain to follow the rejection of
a like proposition if made in favour of the Protestant Church
in England.—(Cheers.) If such a proposition were made ha
this House, and that I saw a majority against it, yet so con-
vinced am I of its justice that even a majority of my con-
stituents should riot deter me from voting in its favour.—
(Cheers.) If we are to go out for the benefit of the
country, we are not to yield to every impulse we
may receive ; but we should act, upon a great measure of this
sort, only as men s4esirous of keeping in view the cause of
truth, of freedom, and of justice.—(Loud cheers ) The Pro-
testant Dissenters are arrayed here against this Bill ; but I
cannot forget that there was a time when those Dissenters were
petitionef s before the House for the purpose of being relieved
from as hat they cone ived to be burdens ..on conscienc-,
anal complaining of the privation of civil liberty, which worked
a great injustice towards them. We then in opposition urged
that injustice upon the House, and we obtained the coneoesion
of the repeal a the Act which afflicted them. Again, the
Roman Catholics of Ireland were afflicted with civil disabili-
ties ; and the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite acknowledged,
when he passed the Emancipation Act, that it was owing to
our continued support that those claims were carried. Such
was the avowal which the Right Hon. Gentleman made at the
end of the discussion on the Bill he introduced for the removal
of the Roman Catholic disabilities. Now, it was not that we
wished to favour the Protestant Dissenters, that we sought to
deliver them from their disabilities. It was not to favour the
Roman Catholics that we relieved them from their grievances.
No, I trust, that we so acted upon that occasion, as we have
upon all occasions acted, because the cause with which the
Protestant Dissenters and the Roman Catholics were bound
up, was the cause of justice ; and that we carried that cause,
not however, without many refusals.—( Cheers.) If we had
not acted then without reference to the particular expression of
opinion at the time, the Protestant Dissenters would not have
been thus relieved. If the Roman Catholics now find that we
have not the power to help them the whole of their grati-
tude will be turned towards the Government which has pro-
posed this measure.—(" No," from Mr. Redington.) My
Hon. Friend says " No," but, with the exception of the Hon.
Member for Dundalk, I believe, the general feeling will be as
I state, and I am not surprised at it, for it is the common
course in political events. If the course I am to pursue were
solely founded on the support of this particular measure I
should not repine ; and Ido not repine; it is the only course
I could adopt ; it is the one, that in public life can be tolerated
to act as we think in each situation we shall best advance the
great interests of our country—( Cheers)—and to take our
chance whether we obtain faveur or disfavour.
" Nor love thy life, nor hate ; but what thou liv'st
Live well, how long or short permit to Heaven."

—(Loud cheers) This sentimel tis as applicable to political
as to natural life, and for myself I would rather retire into
private life, I would rather leave the business of this House to
others, who may possess the people's confidence, than attempt
to injure this country by giving a vote against a measure
which I think the welfare of my country demands.—( Hear. )
Sir, then my belief is, that this measure, as proposed, is
likely to be received gratefully in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.)
You may say that their gratitude will be misplaced—that it
is a paltry favour. I am not to judge of that. But lam to
judge of the effect—the real effect—which this measure will
produce. I will not take it as if it were the last of a series,
and were the crowning act of a long course of justice to the
people of Ireland. No, Sir; I shall maintain, as I have hi-
therto maintained, that with regard to the civil and political
privileges of the people of that country you have yet much to
do—( Hear, hear)—that those measures to which the Right
lion. Baronet the Home Secretary alluded last night, fall con-
siderably short of that which the people of Ireland have a right
to require of you, to put them on au equality with the people
of England.— ( Hear, hear. ) I think with respect to their
ecclesiastical state, that that great anomaly of a large en-
dowed Church for a small minority of the people is an evil
which, without entering into the ways in which it might be
remedied, Parliament must consider.—( Ilear, hear.) I will
not concede that opinion. I will not deny that after this mea-
sure is passed I shall either in support of some proposition
from others, or in my own proposition, endeavour to obtain
for the people of Ireland that justice which I think was
long and cruelly denied to them —(Loud cheering.) If
you will permit me for a few moments longer, I would beg of
this House to consider how much this country has been in-
jured, how many administrations have been disturbed and rent
asunder, by these Irish questions.—( Hear, hear.) I will not
go back to any very remote period, but going back to the time
of the union, I find that Mr. Pitt, then in the height of his
power, had decided upon an Irish question, and that an
Irish question broke up the Government of Mr. Pitt. Mr.
Pitt intended a union between the two countries. He in-
tended, as far as can be discovered from his subsequent speeches,
in addition to that union, a complete relief from civil and
political disabilities for the Roman Catholics, and a provision
for the Roman Catlaic Church.—( Hear, hear.) The
Ministry of Mr. Pitt fell, and his firm Administration was
followed by the weak Administration of Mr. Addington.
Mr. Pitt afterwards returned to power, but he did not return
with his former partners, with Lord Grenville, and others,
who agreed with him upon the Catholic question,
and who did not agree with him in coming
back without the question of Catholic Emancipation being
proposed to Parliament. His administration was strong for a
time, fur there were men of the highest abil ty in it. In 1897
it was broken, it fell upon an Irish question—a Catholic ques-
tion, especially affecting Ireland. You had then an adminis-
tration formed on the ground of refusing all concessions; that
did not last many years, and Lord Castlereagh declared it was
necessary that some concession should be made to the Roman
Catholics. In the time of war, when this country was threat-
ened with peril, or when it was not in danger from
foreign wars, the Catholic question was opposed or supported.
This state of things was continued from 1812 to 1829, and
the Catholic question weakened every Administration that was
carried on in the meantime. We have had the spectacle of
Secretaries of State opposing each other on questions the most
important and vital to our domestic policy.—( Hear, hear.) In
1828 you had an Administration which contained many Mem-
bers opposed to the Catholic claims, but in 1829 those claims
were conceded. In 1830, in consequence, as I think,
very much of the decision upon that question, the Ministry
was broken up. Earl Grey came into power the
Reform Bill was carried. The Ministry who car-
ried it had at first an immense majority in the
House of Commons. Everything was easy because
it was a strong Government, In 1834 that Ministry
was weakened and divided upon the question relating to the
state of Ireland. Four members of the Cabinet seceded, and
not long after Earl Grey himself retired from office. That
Ministry before long ceased to exist. Another Ministry was
formed, and dissolved by a vote of this House on a question
affecting Ireland. A new Ministry came in in 1835, during
the whole course of their existence having a small majority.
In consequence of what had taken place in 1834,
the whole course of their existence of power was
weakened and crippled; but it was owing to a
decision with regard to the state of Ireland, a difference of opi-
nion with regard to the measures they had brought in respect-
ing that country, that they were weakened—( Hear, hear)—
I have taken other occasions, and I will still take other occa-
sions to refer to the particular questions involved in those de-
bates from 1835 to 1841. But what I want to show now is,
that since the time of the Union till 1845, there has been
scarcely a year in which Governments have not been weakened,
and Adrainistrations formed and destroyed upon questions in
some degree relating to the Roman Catholic religion and to
the state of the people of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Why,
without any reference to war, or any other contingency, if you
can see that you can proceed by any measure to tranquillise
that country—that if you can hit on any course of policy in
which parties generally may agsee—upon which you may at
length come to some concord on questions relating to Ireland,
you will add immeasurably to the strength of this country.—
( Loud cheers ) Is this question—is this short review here
given—a view of the question that has been taken by the pe-
titioners who have carried their petitions to the table of this
House—have they considered this question in reference to the
power and strength of this country ? If not, let me beg of
them to eensider—differing from them, with respect for their
virtue and their strong sense of religion which makes them ap-
proach this House—let me, at the same time, if, in considering
this
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may tend, in some degree, to heal those still bleeding wounds,
and to place Ireland in that position which she ought to be—
the most improving, if not the most happy part of her Ma-
jesty's dominions. The Nobl© Lord concluded amidst loud
and prolonged cheering.
Sir R. INGLIS said that of all the important speeches
which he had ever heard he considered that of the Noble Lord
the Member for London the most important.—( Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord avowed to the House that there were other
measures which would be more acceptable to the people of Ire-
land. It had been objected to the petitions presented to the
House against this measure that the persons from whom they
came did not understand the doctrines of their own Church.
But he would defy any Gentleman to show any statement in
the numerous petitions which had been presented to the House
on this question, which was not supported by the
doctrines of the liturgy and the homilies of the Church.
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