The Sun.
London, England, 1819-12-18 00:00:00

e tv,

,tot rewroies 'ld Hut

Paid
took a different course, Then tire blarne vras
aid 'On Providence. He then notired the pre;
aettt distrets of.tbe .country, and illustrated hiS
argument by quoting largely from the latter part
t)f 'Goldsmith's (' Deserted Village," desetiptive
4f the sorrows of those about to emigrate to A
I*.ca• Efftctual resistance to the injurious \policy
of Ministers could only be opposed by one thing,
4rlll that Was not the sword, the pistol, or the
(bigger, but public opinion. It puhiic opinion
. favoured Rat!icalism, Radicalism would ultimately
Prevail ;. if it 'deniai-nletl moderate Reform, mo.
derote ReforM would be obtained ; and if it call-
" for khe,tei initiation of prevailing aI.P.ISeS, the
.tall must he complied t itll. Public opinion, he
Proceeded to :how, had forced Jairles to abdicate
throne;his . it was this that • had destroyed the
43 4stile in France., and brought back Btionaparte
4
.11.°111 Elba ; and here, if it called for inquiry, re-
trenchment, or retorm,, it must he attended to.
The a.lce-Uf ATHOLL and the Elrl of Gaosva-
liOtt Ferer4liy explained.
'the Earl of WESTNI,RLAN &cline(' following
tUe Nob', Lort, 1,0 had just sa -through
the whole 0: Ho. ch; out he contended: in on-
('Position t.' .J: the present Bills were .1, p,si.
'.l)wn no • to be allowed tut
irly ao'd i',,di,totts'y drew a lint!
between it. 11!PtH igs 1 ailed ti .e iki..chie-
'"totts.".puitt,,,,. it ve,,,s truly tr,,titteri .:own
8401. meet bad 4ie 4, I u.nten I bt.
( arty'st, tta.t tAkt l'he fi! s!a-
was th.a! of ove
' GO, „, i!, rc IV., w.•ich we.,; t.r Ifni d-wn

t')llt ()us j r fIIP i itZS, At,(l enpi ,e(I thr
s• vt.re• 1)Y114!, to arre.,
'eati " VI. 1 t
t!. r at(mat r r-
.AOrly to rer ; in,rting an hour aft.er a pro-
't!alnation t.tri. read. By his hainatie Ikny
the ricce, triertiov,s I.y toree had
been alts; holly -.voided The S' ame of Edt
Ward ,ed the rel a i)t Qiieen Mary,

111)(1 ag•., o' Eilzothetb, 11 was then suf..
!eied tr awl the law ith.respect to public
lbeet t - .1 ti inn that time on the Milt of
•
, to the reign of Geot-ge 1., when
*be 111, • ,s passed. • Coming then to ih••
Presec, e •n that they differed
th,ii had preceded them. Hi-
-I:tht, ; • expec,ed that some riot would
•Tak • .c meetings orttn improper cha-
had not been CoMmon for per-
s(' • of exercising the sacred right
• ail forth what he might almost
• tfl ,tn the ignorant, and spread

bh : ag time that such meetings
o. er ,d merely by abstinence from,
.110' .nll the .inj, tne present medsure was
.10 (11y.petc,e .by be I rather than lay the.
.3%,nrii Ni)9le BArVilitit 4uggested fibre reme-
• Ilk, '7l I.l4ltrlry into-,•e ...ate of titecountry;
eco liv, xll Hlceratinn 111 Ott* tranie of .he Govern-
/Tien ; 4,41 sly, 'A I c-,.ll.:tip,lo';lle army. He (the
dart it %Vt.onion:lA) 1 -en proceeded to si,ow,

re-

hrai
erl that ihrf e--ivAs__ hut too .linch dis,ress in
the „„ntiv, bot where vn nst disiress was felt, it
was itio§t (lisAft eti•pnyoevailedlt :--,
did 'not 'seem to Jilin likely, that-thole who
were •io great distress - and 'poversy, could give
their (r.vi •4,d•wgtits to drilling and trninttig
'could moory in.ptirchasing arms,-iit buying

ilit.npnit.rs, in procuring devices and standardl,
'Mote -Isom one end. of-the.conittry to
-te -.-her iitfrlld .Incetings„But- atl-.
I i .cti )n to proceed iron] distress,
le .t is.t.

he ihongnt suffering the whole countryin the
Ihro,n i.n disorder -would be the means of •te-
IllOring VrOlig,iillity and happiness, he would then
propose to postpone these Bills.. But .if it should
.althear that the meetings of which they complained
lentleti to increase the distress; and were not only
liktly to do so hut had actnally,doneit,--when it
kas seen't hat ..people'wev anxiotttly withdrawing
Iheir capital, and. pa•sing front the North to the
esr for their safety—when these things, were
,Aecn, would it be said that Ministers were wrong
endeavouring to'restor.e peace and 'order, that
wrii-ilisposed, might again follow their orcli-
- nary avocations in‘ecorityi But then it was said
111-14 t the distress was produced, by the policy of
I‘liastenr, and that .consequently a.change,in the
frone of chtir Goverittnent was necessary.

GR•SVENOR denied having -said that a
hunge:in_the frame of oueGovernntent was ne-
tesSary.
EVII4 RLAND resnmed.—lie de-4

`hied that the present distress resulted front rills-
-101e and ft/is-government, and consequently that
I,tscure could be supplied by a change in the
:frame of oat —Government. The present system
hRd lifted this Country, tor/aids the close of the
List century, to a state of unexampled psci!sperity.
`Under this.systeM theCountly had been_oised an
runts, and population, to 811 flillaenCe
*illicit was at once the envy and the 'admiration
all -surrounding nations, and this recol•
Ic.ction alone should make them hesitate to alter
the frame of our -pricent Government.
showed the advantages enjoyed under this Go.,
Qernment were great, and especially so to 'the
Door .and the needy. The evils, complainell of
Ile. Was convinced would have been felt in an equal
ilegree under the most populor form of Govern-
klent that could be devised ; for had the whole
`elation 'beep- polled on Abe-question of the late
mar, be was sure that an immense majority

bave decided its favour'. Since the
rtftefroth 'fifteen to sixteen tniLions in taxes bad
en taken, horn the burdens of the people ;

every suggirstion in favour of economy that had
'"en received from their oponents had (with
'll few trifling exceptions) been attended to,.and
'Under these .circturivtanceS he would ask what
trout-ids were there for tharging Ministers xvith
luis-government He denied that the present
Measures went to intringe the Bill of Rights, and
naintained.that it had been the anxious care of
40vernmetit to avoid this in all that they had pre.-
t:ionsly,doue. Having described the transactions
'mot Manchester, and took a review of the disaffec-
litHt previously known to exist in that part of the
''r`-)Stlttly, be contended that the conduct of the
\', "gistroteB at Manchester, on the 16111 of An-
rst, had not in any respect violated the 13ill of
(ihts ; but 1;e trusted -that the• present measure
‘vould preVent the necessity of dispersing future.
11'ettings in that way. Inquiry into the trallSac-
t")ns on the part of PartiaLueut was unnecessary,

As if those who calleirlor inquiry nriwllad
sired it before, long ere this au 'inquiry would
have taken place'in the ordinary Courts of Law.
'lO institirte an inquiry under existing CirCUM'
stances, would, .he thought, be most unparlia-
memory, unjust, and erne), as tending to prejudice
questions which were yet to come before -Julies.
Earl Geosveteott explained.
The Bail of LAUD i,.RPALK slid not believe in
the existence of any extended conspiracy to over-
throw the Government. He believed the evil
arose from the 'distress now prevalent. Bot it
was said, on the 'part of Ministers, 'that notch dis..
tress was (01111 d 'in the country. • To him this
pearetl either a seditious temark .against the Go=
vernment, or blasphemy against Pro,vidence itself.
He accused the Noble LOrds opposite with being
the cause of the distress, as his judgment it
was the natural consequencel of the measures
which they hail pursued. In all_ countries the
expenditure and revenge {left to the natural course
of things) would be equal to 'each Other ; but
from the year 1774 up, to the year 1819, **debt
of• 860 or 879,000.0 m. had been cunt ratted in
this country. In this• course, taking every 1001.
stock added to the debt at 751. sterling, it would
be seen, that there had been an expenditure of
.670,060,0001. beyond the real capital of the coon-
try, 811.4 titls had, during 24 years of war, en-
tailed on the country additional taxes *to the
R Diohrit hf tiVehty-luilijooS stet'ling. To meet
this uxtyaordin.ary, extraordinary labour
became necessary. The manufacturer was
croppelled. to toil seven days in the week instead
'of four, at a reduced price, and thus more work
avas performed than formerly, while the foreign
demand tor our. goods was .in tlkl.e4plal proportion
' diminished, Th.., caused the distress, and this
evil be would say grew- out' of the policy of the
Government, which for t tventy-four years had kept
the countryat-war:__4l,e-_44arnAvi-rrt into a further
description of the 4.i.!ress experienced in the
manufacturing distric:s, contended that these
Bills ougt•t Dot to pass while inquiry was re-
fused, and that some syMpathy ought to be
manifested by the Government for the suffer-
ings of the people. He thought that the effect
the Bill, if it succeeded in potting down
i.obl.e discussion, would be to create private in-
trigues and conspiracies still mor dangerous. Had
not that been the case in France ? Had any public
',meetings, preceded the Revolution ? No ; the
meetings of the Sessions enesisted, at the utmost,
of fifty or sixty individuals,: and, were not held
in the open air, and it was from them that the
greatest part of the subsequent evils had flowed,
He concluded by recommending to their Lord
ships to show that they cared for the,people, seltcf.
otherwise would neither care for them ,nor main-
tain a proper respect for the Constitution.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL did not .believe that,
existing distresses were the causes of the dis-
. tuthaoces which had taken place, but that .the
individuals who . had occasioneaLthose. distur-
bances would cot have had the jiiirier of operating
what they had done without the aid ofahose dis-
tresses. Disaffection, in fact,• did not exist
amongst the most distressed. ,but amoppetlidse
'•:who received more abundant salaries.;,The.Nohle
:Tierl who bad last .spoken, had- assumed that the
-)ate war was the cause of those distrtsses ,;--but, to
t make his argument good,.he ought to have shown
that it had been possible to avoid thattwar.Buthad„
during theilast 10 years of thecontest,any,voieeheeni,
- raised even amongst the NOle,.Lords,opposlttriti
favour of peace'? Nay, had not a Nonte,Earl
-self, when sentatver in 1507.t0 Paris to trekt.i.vithi
'the.Frenelt Government, found it impossibie, not-s,
withstanding the ability with which het had icon-',
ducted•the negociation, to conclude a peastei,sual,
atitis 'return, expressed his opinion to that offeteti
to the House ?—(Hear, hearl)—He thenetintend-i
ed, that the distress only existed in those.manufae-!
luring districts which depended on foreign trade,)
and,proceeded front thetpresent state of the. Unitedi
States, which had 'reduted- their demand
goods. The 'manufactures which. :depeneed ~on`;
domestic consumption were in tt. flourishing,oton-'
dition. "He then 'alluded to the anensures adopted
in 11.793 and 1817, to relieve the distresses of the
Poor by an issue of Eltchrquer Liitls, -and stated
that near half a million still remained unapplieC
chiefly because the Gentlemen in Scotland, not
choosing to assess theinselvei, cortid not give
.the security necessary• to justify an advance
on the part of iris Majesty's Govecoment.,--,
With respect to the present Bill, he .approved
the principle of permanence, but did- not coot-,
plain of its4imitation to five years,•as it might be
wise to give an opportunity fur reconsidering the
t measure atter its merits had been tried. He main-
tained that the Bill would promote instead of pre—
•venting discussion and.jpetitions, and•that those
petitions which at various times, had had most in-
Aluence: with Parliament, were not those that bad
invotatiopted at :meetings held in the open air.
Vire Marquess of -LANSDOWNR- rejoiced at the
r alterations which the- Bill bad already experi-
enced, -acid trusted that still greater would 'be
:effected before it "passed the House. He ob-
jected to the inclusion of Ireland within its pro-
• •
- 'The Earl 'of BLESSINGTON expressed his inten-
tion ormOving in the Committee,- that Ireland be
left out of the •:
•
'Lord lloteatto opposed' the Mesisitie as uncon-
stitutional, foolish, and Mischievottr.
The tfueition'Was theft pat,* and•it• Was agreed
by*their Lordships that'. theiCommittee should be
postporied till Monday: '
The House then -divided on the motion olthe
Earl Cattoarivott, thatan instrnotion be given
• •to the Committee to liMit the 'duration of the
•measitre fo.thelit .of Saly, •182--; •

Contents
Vroxie% lB— 38
Not Contents
Proxiei 'B-135
Nlajwity against the Motion —97
Adjourned at I. w) o'Clock this Morning, till
Nlonday.
•

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Dec. 17.
Sir H. PAHNLE, gave notice that he would, on
Monday, move for leave to bi ing in a Bill to re-
gulate the manner of taking the Poll isciFcland.
PEN rtyN. •
Sir CHARLES BuRRELL moved the Order of the
Day, for receiving the Report on the'Penrin
boy 13111, with aie view of povponiog it to the

'2lst February 'next. This lie had done at the
supitstion of several Members', who wished him
to wait till the •.•Grampound.llol, came under the
consideration of the lHouse. 1.1.
,was not prepared
to say that hi hail, renoanced:MA,'-oFigioal inten-
tion with respect to , Penryno,foe.i.olAiis.opinion
this case differed—sortterially.from that of Gram-
pound. The dietriet -to wiridit: the franchise was
extended in ilte peprifjii piq,,t hiiiiiikwlra4qeqa
tion of 20,000 souls; :..ii:a,tll,e same Amitivll.4llv
ever, be felt it bit darAto comply wiair,Thewse,
qnest. He concluded with iWAing'.Tibit
,t, tIC `fie-
port :., .fi'S • .!. ...t.c..,.
be reteiveA rin-,14. next.
Nlr. C. W. Wvtao 'eg'reed
„Taiat ap 4ityantagi
would be derived. from ;delaying shec,Orisoreration
of this ease till after ttirdiscus,son-9 thecifarni
pound Bill. The present Bill ii43.113e.e fA9t4, :" e
material object ion-to7th-Gaatsopuo4+4l-4141--7-44•alsrely,
the proposition for giviqg cjiaftfrost unconvicteit
voters of Gramponod votkst.:44 the County. It
there was one part of our.-litegasontation which
ought to be more sacred than atratbearit was that
of the Representation of CO-Aictre-V.— The principle
of the Grompound Bill went-tiipnt 'mother. class
of voters on.an equality with flThilffilrett.tThere-
,were now. three Bills .in the 11,.- --relatiti4t 1
Boroughs in the same County.44l,,Tlk,trOu
or five Boroughs all cootribtiteil i(qqt. fiy.rireTeVi •
tion, as'on Scotland) to return` filitt-SIMAx.t. I
might be possible, in like manner, tq:class to
gether the ith'convicted v.terii.l'isf4tiW ITtlieren
Boroughs of which the distriekArioolit4noW6
greater than one of those in w0.e!0,,,,,,- ,
,i
Sir CHARLCS MONCK %VHS very happy,
~,that tq
the projected alteration of the tvgiryn Bill," 010
right to•eleet would he given to a district iiieltril.;
log such populous places as Falmouth and Penli
zance. There was no necessity for adhering rigo-
rously to the same precedent, when the adherence
would not be prodnctiVe.of the same benefit. He
thought nothing•could;be more advisable than to
deal with Peuryn as,..Boroughs under the tame
circumstances :had been dealt with before. The
imperfection in the manner in which they had hi-
. therto proceeded wiih Boroughs'', such as Penryn,
%vas, that in the. Hundred to Which the franchise
was extended, there were sometimes other
Bo-
roughs, which by this means obtained a share in
returning a number of Members. Thus, for in-
stance, Wootton Basset, in the County of Wilts,
was in the Hundred to which the franchise of
Cricklade was extended. A person inhabiting a
• freehold house in ‘Vootton Basset, had a- vote fur
•the two Members of that Borough, , he, ,v, .Mern-
bers for Cricklade, and the two Members for the
County ; in all six Members.
Mr. D. GILBERT observed; that in many of the
Boroughs the right of returning the Members was
vested in the Corporation, which could take no
part in returning Members for the Hundred.
111 r. Serjeaut Ox,stow observed, that the cir-
4C-iiinstance Of a person possessing.alreehold in a
towuihawing a right to vote for both the town and
county was by no means uncommon. If they
acted., the.refore, on the principle of excluding
persons 'from a county vote, because he hail already
• a vote in the Hundred, the next step would be. to
deprive.those who had a vote in a, town of their
vote for the county. He proteited against de-
priving' any man of 'his franchise on. Speeulative
grounds; . lie was toientilyio the principle adopted
in the.case of §bocellam. .
, .
The Report was ordered to be received on Mon-
day, the Zlst Febrnary'neit, till which tittle the
.Writ•fur-the Borough--was suspende&
J., • .:••• ~. , IRISH ELECTION BILL. , . .

'On the motion of Mr. NVYtiNtt, this,Bill was
committed, reportt.7l-,--smi soon afterwards cedd a
third. time.and passed.

•

INSOLVEtiT DEBTORS. ,

LordAt.TitoßP broughtin the Insolvent Debtors
11.,.,and moved its _first reading.
IVIr.,.CALcRAFT wished to call the attention of
NOble-Lord to a part of his speeek on a for-
-river day, which, contrary lo his intent inns be was
‘.B4ve,,had,,woonded, thelettings of a
.mast respect-
able individnal, whOm he had known for a num.
ter of years. lie alluded to' the late ,Ciiief Clerk
Nit the insolvent Debtors Court.

44ord ALTHORP said, he, was ,sorry that any
thing he had said should ,have wounAed.the feel-
ings-of the indiiidual in question. He certhilAy
did not intend to do g(-). In. the course of the in-
. vestigation before the Committee nothing came
out which would warrant any imputation against
hiM. He had stated, that he wai glad that his
Majesty's Ministers had .4,emoved.erveryrofEcer,of
the Court., because, from the circumstance of, the
manner in which the.. Court. had been , con-'
ducted., it had losr,the confidence of the public,
and could not go on. In stating 6,4, however,
die. did not intend to
.throw out any imputation
against the individual in question.
The Bill was then read a first time, and the se-
•cond reading was fired for Wedn'esd.iy, 'the 16th
February next..