The Sun.
London, England, 1828-06-11 00:00:00

ships—(Hear, hear, Lear)--list I have been sniferieg
under a long indisposition, which may perhaps account for
the loose way in which 1 have ennveyed my ideas, and I
shall now conclude by expres.,ing my cordial assent to the
_ _

motion of my Noble Friend. I
His Royal Highness then sat down amidst loud and eon- I
fumed cheering.
The LORD CHANCELLOR then rose—l feel myself I
called on to address the House at this moment, from an
apprehension that, should I delay until a later period,.l
might not be able precisely and distinctly to state the
grounds of my opposition to the motion of the Noble Mar-
quis. I cordially concur with the Royal Duke who has
jest addiessed. the' Himse in his approbation of the tone and
temper with which this debate has been conducted, which
has been suitable to the dignity of this House, as well as the
great importance of the question ,now.under: our considera-
tion. If this were the first time that this subject had come
for decision before your Lordships, I should feel rather di--
posed to accede to the proposition of the Noble Marquis.
It is true his proposition is one but for inquiry, and iuttv-
, duced in the most captivating form ; but this, I think,
uilonttlemr,eigtlhiemiss,e‘nvtiticiiyr,c)uonriLst(aoudesestipiof. thFis or question,,,,l,ii,,,,
re-
will
collect that for the last twenty-five year, the subject has
been again and again agitated ~in Parliament—and how
often the powers of the ablest men of the age have been
directed to its examination—when sse advert to the. mea-
sures which have, from time to time, been submitted
to the Legislature, and that all these
,successive efforts
have failed—l do not think that we can accede to the pro-
position submitted to us, as we cannot believe .it will lead:
to any beneficial result. If, my Lords, : inquiry be .k.isti-
tilted, and the result be unfavourable, it must, have a great
tendency to exasperate feelings already highly excited ; and
if, without ally hope of a successful result, we adopt that
proposition, I know too much of the feelings of the rople
of Protestant England, not to be certain that they will feel
an alarm of the most fatal description.;—(Hear, hear.)—
Let me then call your Lordships' attention to the progress
of this question since the year 181 S; for I wish only to
advert to measures which comprised the whole bearing, of
' this subject. A Bill was then submittsd` to the other
House of Parliament, with a view to accomplish the ob--
jects.of the Noble Marquis's motion. That Bill Was fram-
ed by a man of the greatest intelligence—a Man well ac-
quainted with Ireland, and who had the experience of many
years.. He was supported by my late Right Hon. and la-
mented Friend, who gave all the aid of his great talents
and unrivalled powers to. the subject. He also had. the
support of the intelligence, knowledge, and legal experience
of my ,Noble Friend (Lord Plunkett), now on the cross
bench,.and whom lam most happy to see here. He like-
wise had the assistance of a Roman Catholic adviser, of
great legal knowledge and acquirements ; and all those
assisted in framing that Bill, which was brougit into the
other House for the purpOse of accomplishing the emanci-
pation of the Catholics. It was there supported by the
eloquence of Grattan, by the powers of my lamented Rt. Hon.
Friend, and by the trlnseendant eloquence and reasoning of
my Noble and Learned Friend, to whom I am now Wind-

ing ; and in its progress those eminent individuals ex-
pressed an opinion as strong as can be conceived or adopted,
that if the Mitten Catholics would not adopt the provisions
of that Bill, fenced as it was with securities; they would no
longer. be justified in supporting their claims. It went
through two etages, and was accompanied with securities,
mild in their tone, and such as this Protestant kingdom
had at least. a right to expect, but it was no sooner known
in Ireland, than the Roman Catholic Hierarchy
.determin-
ed to do every thing they could to defeat it. They pro-
nounced it; as a Right - Rev. Prelate in ' this debate has
said, a pernicious and destructive measure, and said that
the Clergy ought rather to go to the scaffold than consent
to it. Throughout all Ireland 'the•greatest excitement pre-
veiled, • end one of their advocates declared, if it was car-
ried, that the result would he a hopeless and bloody insur-
rection in that muntry. When then I find that. indivi-
duals of so eminent a description have directed their ta-
lents and their experience to a particular measure of :re-
lief, as best adapted for the purpose they had in view, and
when they pledged their character, in support of it,
and that the result was so received ix Ireland, and when all
these efforts ended in total failure, I confess I am led to
despair of our ability to carry into event any specific mga.
sure which may be meant to be grounded on this motion.
The next measure introduced was that by the Noble and
Learned Lord (Plunkett) which it may be said was not
fully discussed on coming up here, but that I do net think
can be fairly urged, for although it did not go into com-
mittee, yet on the second reading it was particularly sifted
*(.l examined. 1 remember well the apeechavhich w
then delivered by my Noble and Learned Friend near me,
who exposed all the dangers which must result horn it, and '
I theretbre am sore that the candour of my Noble Friend
on the cross bench will induce kin to acknowledge that the
lull was altogether unsatisfa.ctory. The next measure was
that brought forward in 1321, by my late Right lion.
Friend, to which another measure was attached to make it
more palatable, with reference to the representative system
of Ireland. The same individuals assisted the progress- of
this measdre," and it teas met by the same spirit on the
part of the people—l mean a spirit of indignation as to the
first measure I -have alluded to, and when it came to this
House it had the form of securities, although if certainly
wanted all their substance. Of these three- measures I
would say that that of 1813 was one which by'Po4sibilltf the
House might accede to : that of 1821, inasmuch as it re-
ceded from the former, Was inferiOr but that of 1825 was one
that it was impossible could be received either by the House
or the country—impossible to adopt consistent with any se-
curity to the Protestant Establishment.—(Cheers. )---This,
therefore, .constitutes the difficulty, because. When we find
on one side any thing attempted to allay the fears of the
Protestants, that is at once rejected in Ireland, and, on the
other hdnd, when we disregard those fears, the measure is
rejected here, wherefore it is impossible to anticipate that
the measure of the Noble Marquis can, in any case, be at-
tended -with success. lam satisfied that, as I have already
stated, _failure would exasperate the Wings of the Irish
people, and the • very attempt will excite the utmost
alarm and• anxiety in the Protestant part of the
empire., •• In consequence of what has been said by
the Noble Earl next me, I will advert to the effect of
the revolution. of:1688. He has asked why the Reforrna-
tion sought not to be 'ascribed to an earlier period, andlio:
doubt it was introduced earlier, but the Noble Lord also .•
knows that the principles of the Catholics were then only.
held -in sishjection by those of the Puritans. When the
fear of the latter, however,• was done away by the restora-
tion of Charles 11., who was suspected, and justly, of
Popery, then the hopes of the Catholics were aroused,
and, in consequence, Acts were pa.sed, I may . say, for
forming the Constitution. • Then it was that the law was,
passed which excluderl.Catholics from office, and which has'
riven rise to considerable discussion this Session—l mean •
the Test Acf. Then it was, for the first time, they were ex-
cluded from. of:lkea, because as to seats in Parliament, they
were-practically excluded long before by the operation of
other Acts. Fat, from the favour they enjoyed with the
Sovereign, they returned to their seats here, and though ,I
will not -attempt to justify the ()erasion of it, then it was
that the Act *lased for their complete exclusion. The
25th Chaides-11. excluded them from offices, and the 30th
of the tame King confirmed their exclusion from this and
the other House of Parliament. Attetnpta were also made
to prevent the succession of James 11., but they failed, and
he, although a known Papist, came to the Crown, which,
as we all know, led to the Revolution, and that to what I
am about.to allude. I beer to call your Lordships' atten-
tion to the declaration of King William, made on his em-
barking, ill which be promises that the laws against the
Catholics should be carried into execution, and particularly
says, that attempts had been made to repeal the Test Laws,
and that the great object both of the country, and of his
expedition, was to confirm the laws against the Catholics,
but particularly the Test Laws, by which the liberty of the
country would be established. Accordingly, on his arrival
here there waa a meeting of the Lords and Collusions, and
Williams took additional measures to carry his declaration
into effect. • The Convention met, and they discussed the
propriety of those laws; but it is sufficient-for me to show
that I hey comidered those laws as an essential and vital part
of' the Constitution. They were then, however, im-
perfect, for although they excluded Catholics fiorn Parlia-
ment and from offices, they did not extend to the Monarch,
and in the Bill of Rights reference is made to the declara-
tion, and it was agreed that the " Crown should be alone
held by Protestants."- Thus the system was confirmed, and,
as my Noble and Learned Friend stated, was time Protestant
Constitution completed. The Protestant Church and Pro-
testant State were thus formed by the Revolution,which was
never the case prior to the Revolution. I may also advert to
the Coronation Oath, not that I mean to contend that to be
binding under all circumstances, but merely to chew the view
with which it was received, and the object oldie men who
framed it. Then it was. that the Coronation Oath was
altered, and declared that the King war to support the •
Protestant Church as by law established at that period,
arid with reference to the exigencies of the country. And
who were the.pereens who framed this Oath? Men who
bad experienced the evils resulting from the attempts
to iutroduce Popery into the country—ruen who were
not bigots, but some of the greatest Statesmen, the
greatest lawyers, and the greatest men, that the
country has ever produced at any period. This is the
system which they introduced, and this is the system under
which we have lived, long, happily, and illustriously. And
although I will not say that, under no circumstances, is au
alteration of that system to be permitted, I also say that we