The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-21 00:00:00

Gentlemen was to retain the Government in office.=
(Cheers.) He contended that the proposition of the
Hon. Member for Bristol (Mr. Miles) was the better
propositiOn; and he was at a loss to understand why the
free-traders should be the party to keep the Government
in office.—(Loud cheers.) He (Mr. Duncombe) had fre-
quently heard the working classes denounced as Tory
tools, because they did not agree and go with the League
in all things. Who were the Tory tools now?—(Loud
cheers.) Not the working, the libelled working, classes
—(Continued cheers.) But what he (Mr. Duncombe)
wanted to guard against, was the House saying to
the country that they were " voluntarily and freely"
giving this supply.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) lie
said they did not " voluntarily and freely give" it. He
said it was a mean falsehood—a positive -falsehood, after
the coercion that had taken place, to say that it was
"voluntarily and freely" given—(Loud cheers)—and on
that ground he should move the omission of the words
"voluntarily and freely." And he further most respect
fully and mast submissively called upon the Right lion
Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) not to add injury to insult—
(Cheers)—not to heap further degradation, by calling
upon them to vote a falsehood, than he had already
heaped upon that House, by causing it to reverse a de-
cision it had previously arrived at.—(Loud cheers.)
Sir R. PIiEL said, considering the oppo.-tunity the
lion. Gentleman had had of maturely weighing and cor-
rectly understanding this question, he really thought he
ought to have made hiase:f better acquainted with the
facts of the case than, unhappily, he appeared to be.—
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman said it was the pro-
posal of Government to give a protection to the West
India interest of 20s, whereas the protection proposed
by them was 10s. He really thought before the
Honourable Gentleman indulged in such stern judg-
ments, be ought to try to surmount the lamentable ig-
norance which pervaded his minden the subjects he ven-
tured upon. The Right Honourable Gentleman oppo-
site (Mr. Labouchere) had promised that to-morrow
he would overturn the vote deliberately come to on the
3d of June, on the motion of the Noble Lord the Mem-
bet: for London. That waallihe avowal of determination
made by that Right Hon. Gentleman that evening.
Could there be a better justification for the course he
(Sir R. Peel) had followed in suggesting a revision of
the vote they bad formerly come to. He denied that it
was any matter of degradation to reverse a vote provided
there were reasonable and honourable grounds for it.
He recollected on a more important occasion, namely, on
the malt-tax, that Lord Althorp asked the House to re-
verse its decision, and the House complied. But he felt
really obliged to the Hon. Gentleman for the fairness he
had shown in the construction lie had put on the words
he used on Monday evening. He had. been represented
as having said that with respect to this Bill, and other
Bills brought in by her Majesty's Government, he ex-
pected complete acquiescence in all that might be pro-
posed ; now, he never gave utterance to so arro-
gant an expectation. He did on -that occasion
express his warm acknowledgments for the
support her Majesty's Government had received,
and in asking for the same support on the present oc-
casion he did state that her Majesty s Government could
not consent to purchase it by the abandonment of the
general principles it had avowed. Ile did certainly
mean to intimate that, on this question of the sugar
duties, he thought the motion a most material inter-
ference with the commercial and financial policy of the
Government, and he did probably. indicate what
might be the result of its being carried—(Cheers, and
laughter)—and he thought it perfectly fair to do so.—
(Loud cheers.) If he had not done so, he should have
been taunted with haying concealed his real opi-
nions from them—(Hear, hear)—not on account
of the difference between 20 shillings and 24 shillings,
but because it would have been construed into an indica-
tion that the House of Commons disapproved of the
sugar duties altogether—a doubt that would have
amounted to an indication of that want of confidence
which would be followed by the result which such indi-
cations usually produced. These were the expressions
he had used, and by -which he must abide ; but he

..... ,
totally disclaimed any intention of stating that, with re
spect to every measure of the Government, he expected
from those who generally supported it, complete acqui-
escence, It was for the purpose of creating dissatisfaction
among the friends of the Government that this construction
was given to his words; but with that fairness with
which the Hon. Member for Finsbury generally acted,
he had put the right construction on what he (Sir R.
Peel) had stated. So far he thanked the Hon. Gentle-
man. He believed that no man had received more
proofs of confidence than he had himself received.—
(Immense cheering.) The Hon. Gentleman had perhaps
alluded to these circumstances for the purpose of pro
renting disunion, not only among the Members on this
side of the House, but among those who sat on his own;
it might be perfectly just and fair that he should so at-
tempt to divide those who sat around him,- but
he (Sir Robert Peel) trusted that his friends
would not permit the Hon. Member to sow dissension
among them ; he hoped they would remain united—
(lronical cheers and laughter from the Opposition, which
continued for some time)—he had no doubt they would
remain united.—(Renewed cheering, " Oh, oh," and
laughter.) And all the Hon. Gentleman would take by
his present proceeding would be, first, to prove that he
had not made himself master of the facts of the case,
and secondly, in all probability, to foment disunion be-
tween those who were opposed to the Government.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he certainly had recom-
mended his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose to
postpone his motion that evening, and advised him to
take the sense of the House to-morrow evening, on a
point the House had already decided. To some extent,
he allowed he was open to the taunt of the Right Hon.
Gentleman. He could not expect that the Hou e would
prove quite so docile on the question to be submitted to
them to-morrow evening as they had done to the Right
lion. Baronet. His lion. Friend had not the same ar-
guments at command as the Right lion. Gentleman—
(Cheers and laughter)—and if in the heat of debate, he
(Mr. Labouchere) had held out rather too sanguine hopes
of its changing its opinion, he must beg to retract them.
He congratulated the Right Hon. Gentleman on the
more cheerful tone of his speech to-night, compared with
that on Monday last ; and if the Right Hon. Gentleman
had in any way modified the expressions he used on that
occasion, he was by no means inclined to reproach him
for so doing. On the contrary, he rejoiced to hear it ;
he thought a Government ought to have the power on
grave occasions of considering a decision. He still
thought that some of the language used by the Right
Honourable Baronet was not such as a great Minister
ought to have addressed to a British House
of Commons. He certainly understood him to
say that the very unimportance of the question,
comparatively speaking, was an additional reason
why his party ought to support him. He had
also understood him to say that he believed the motion
had been so framed as to get some-support from that
side of the House. He had understood him to indicate
tohis supporters that they might have .the usual license
to differ with him on certain points, provided they did
not so shape their motion as to get support from the
other side of the House. Such language ho did not
think worthy the Right Honourable Baronet's
character and position in that House. He could
only say that he rejoiced in the altered
tone of the Right Hon. Baronet. He thought the
amendment of the Hon. Member for Finsbury had been
very useful in producing this discussion, but he would
not advise him to press it. He thought it would not be
advisable to omit the usual words indicating a readiness
on the part of tho House to supply the wants of the
Executive. •
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said, since he had been the
cause of the Right Hon. Baronet making a kind of
apology to his supporters, he, instead of being a fo-
menter of disunion, was, in fact, a peace-maker.—(Hear,
hear, and cheers.) As he did not wish to be-the cause
of any further division, he should not press his amend-
ment, though he still contended that that portion of the
preamble was totally untrue.—(Laughter.)
Sir JOHN HANMER said, as an independent
Member of Parliament, he begged leave to state that he
had, for several reasons, heard the speech of the Right
Hon. Baronet, on Monday night, with a good deal of pain.
It seemed as though the Right Hon. Gentleman enter-
tained the feeling that there was a kind of intrigue
against him on that side of the House ; that there were
certain persons, who professed to approve of his govern-
ment, whose intentions were opposed to that profession.
—(Hear, hear.) Amongst other subjects to which the
Right Honourable Baronet had referred was one mate-
rially affecting the Principality of Wales. He hoped
that, whenever that question came before the House of
Commons, the Right Honourable" Baronet would not
think that they . disapproved of his government,
or lacked gratitude for the great services which he had
. rendered to his country, if they expressed, opinions
which did not entirely coincide with those of the Go-
vernment. It had but seldom happened to him to differ
from her Majesty's Government ; but he had never
done so, without atthe same time entertaining the greatest
i respect for his general policy, and the greatest desire
to give it his support.
Mr. ROSS said the Hon. Member had, no doubt made
a very excellent apology for himself; but it w ould not
apply to those who voted against her Majesty's Govern-
ment on Friday, and with them on Monday.—(Hear.)
In walking through.the streets of this metropolis he had
seen a party of spaniels dressed up. as men. These
spaniels sometimes got tired and restive; their master
carried a whip in his pocket, and he had only to show
the whip and shake it in order to make them obey his
orders. Now the Honourable Gentlemen opposite were
like these spaniels; and when they became restive, the
Right Hon. Baronet had only to take the whip out of
his pocket and shake it over them, in order to reduce
them to obedience.--(Oh, oh.)
Mr. BORTIIWICK rose amidst great confusion. He
said he would not detain the House more than a few
minutes. They had been - taunted by the Hon. Gentle-
man opposite R ith supporting her Majesty's Government
like so many spaniels. The lion. Gentleman who threw
out that taunt, was one of the dancing dogs himself.—
(Hear, bear.) He had himself changed his vote, and
that, not upon a question of 45., or of seven-sixteenths
of a penny, but of public principle, affecting the rights
and privileges of a large class of her Majesty's subjects.
—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) He (Mr.
Borthwick) had supported her Majesty's Government
in both divisions on this question, because he believed
them to be right.—(Hear, hear.) He would tell the
Hon. Gentlemen that there were twokinds of cowardice,
of which two kinds of spaniels were guilty—one the
cowardice of fearing the threats of a Government; an-
other that of fearing unpopularity. He had braved
both. He repeated that they were not open to the
taunts of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, who had himself
stood on his hind legs and supported the Govern-
ment.—(Laughter.)
Mr. ROSS said the Hon. Gentleman's fact was true,
but his inference was false. He had given, at the time,
a most satisfactory explanation of his conduct, by stating
that he had determined to do, on a doubtful question,
what he thought Would be most agreeable to his con-
stituents.— (Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Hon.
Members cheered, as if there was no force 'or- Value in
the word doubtful ; but he had felt the greatest anxiety