The Sun.
London, England, 1844-04-23 00:00:00

NORTHERN BRITISH RAILWAY BILL.

On the Order of the Day foi• the third reading of
the Northern British Railway Bill being put,
Colonel WYNDHAM said he was opposed to the
system of free-trade in railways, which tended to
trench upon the rights of either the poor man or the
rich. He should, consequently, move that the Bill
be read a third time that day six months.
Mr. P. BORTIIWICK agreed with his Hon. and
Gallant Friend that this Bill would be a direct inter-
ference with the rights of property, and he should
consequently support the amendment.
Mr. MACAULAY said, the opinion of the Com-
mittee had, after mature .consideration, been pro-
nounced in favour of this line of railway. He denied
the statements of the Honourable and Gallant
Gentleman opposite, that this Bill would inter-
fere unduly with the rights of private property.
The very marshes which Mr. Millar himself pos-
sessed gave forth a stench which was intolerable.—
) He did not think that
which had heard and
ould be rescinded by a
examined
eoaanrl
1,
ot read e
Committee,
il
daeu
ng
ch e.
, sII
tribunal which had no opportunity of hearing any
evidence.
Mr. LOCKHART said that he was not very
well acquainted with the locality, but he had been
there more than once, and he had never perceived any
noxious effluvia from the marshes, nor had he ever
before heard that there was any.
The House then divided, when the numbers were—
For the third reading .....
... 102
Against it.
Majority
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
The Eastern Counties (Brandon and Peterborough
Extension Railway) Bill was read a third time and
passed.

SUGAR DUTIES.
Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from
Liverpool signed by 30,000 persons, complaining of
the excessive differential duties on sugar. The peti-
tioners stated that the produce of sugar from our
colonial possessions had been for some time diminish-
ing, and that at the same time the price of foreign
sugar had been constantly declining. During the
last year 114 British vessels had sailed from Rio
Janeiro, and out of this number only twenty-one had
sailed for England, all the rest being bound to Ham-
burgh. The petitioners therefore confidentially alleged
that the differential duties on sugar had been, and
were, exceedingly injurious in their operation, and
they prayed that they might be abolished altogether.
MASTERS AND SERVANTS BILL.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented n petition against
the Masters and Servants Bill. The Hon. Member
also presented a petition from the manufacturing dis-
tricts in favour of the ten hours' clause of the Fac-
tories Bill ; also a petition from Sunderland praying
for the liberation of Cooper, and in favour of the
Charter.

Mr. COLLETT presented a petition from the bo-
rough of Athlone, praying for a Bill to legalise mixed
marriages in Ireland.
Colonel VERNON presented four petitions with
the same prayer.
Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from Bolton
against the Masters and Servants Bill.
Sir H. DOUGLAS presented a petition from the
merchants and shipowners of Liverpool, praying for
a reduction on the duties on tea.

---------
Mr. R. YORKE presented a petition from York,
against the Masters and Servants Bill.
NOTICES OF MOTION.

Dr. BOWRING gave notice that, to-morrow,
he would inquire of the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr.
Gladstone) whether he had any official notice •f a
treaty signed between the United States of America
and the States that comprise the German and Prussian
Union, by which goods were to be reciprocally intro-
duced into each country at duties much lower than
those levied upon articles of the same kind introduced
into either country from Great Britain ?
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved that the petition of
Charles Price and William White Thompson, com-
plaining of the illegal conduct of certain magistrates
of Warwick, when summoned before them for the
non-payment of church-rates on the 16th inst., be
printed with the Votes.—Agreed to.
NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.

Mr. HUME begged to ask the Noble Lord at the
head of the Woods and Forests whether he had any
objection to lay on the table of the House a copy of
any correspondence that had taken place between
the Commissioners of Woods and Forests and Mr.
Barry, the architect of the new Houses of Parlia-
Inent, relative to the sum which had been fixed upon
as that to be paid to Mr. Barry for the building of the
Houses.

The Earl of LINCOLN would have no hesitation
in granting the correspondence if any such existed,
but he was not aware that there was any such cor-
respondence.
Mr. WILLIAMS Tucked for an account of the
public income and expenditure of the United Jiang-

dom, in the years ending the sth day of January
1842, 1843, an 11844, distinguishing the actual pay-
ment for the expenses incurred in the collection and
management of the revenue; for the charges of the
public debt (the terminable annuities being also
valued by estimate) ; for the expenses of the Civil
Government; the allowances to the Royal Family, and
to his Majesty the King of the Belgians ; the
establishment of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland ; the
expenses of the two Houses of Parliament, and the
Civil departments : the other pensions on the Conso-
lidated Fund, on thegross revenue, and the Civil List ;
also, the payments for the administration of justice,
diplomatic expenses, and on account of the sums
voted for the army, navy, ordnance, and miscellaneous
services; also public works, bounties, Post-office, the
quarantine and warehousing establishments, and all
other payments, not coming under any of the fore-
going heads; with an. appendix, showing the several
items composing each }mad of the account (in con-
tinuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 494, of session
1143).—Agreed to.
MEDICAL CHARITIES (IRELAND).
Mr. F. FRENCH rose to ask the Secretary of
State for the Home Department, if it were the inten-
tion of her Majesty's Government to introduce any
Bill into Parliament, during the present session, for
better regulating and rendering more efficient the
Medical Charities of Ireland ; and, if so, whether it
was intended that such Bill should contain provisions
similar to those contained in the Bill for the
better regulation of Medical Charities in Ire-
land, introduced by her Majesty's late Go-
vernment in 1837 ; or provisions similar to those
contained in the Bill for the like purpose introdueed
by the Noble Lord the present Chief Secretary for
Ireland in 1842 ; or any or all of the provisions re-
commended by the Select Committee appointed last
session to inquire into and report upon the Medical
Charities in Ireland ?
Lord ELIOT had nothing to add to the statement
which he had already made upon the subject, which
was, that it was not the intention of her Majesty's
Government to introduce any measure for the regu-
lation of the Medical Charities in Ireland during the
present session.
TAXING-OFFICERS IN BANKRUPTCY.
Mr. SCOTT wished to know from the Right
Honourable Gentleman, the Secretary of State for
the Home Department, if it was the intention of
the Government to introduce any measure for
the appointment of a taxing-officer in Bankruptcy.
In the Bankruptcy Bill, which had passed two years
ago, there had originally been a clause appointing a
taxing-officer in Bankruptcy; how the clause had dis-
appeared he knew not, but he wished to know if it
was now intended to appoint a taxing-officer.
Sir J. GRAHAM had not received the notice
which the Hon. Gentleman had been kind enough to
give him of his intention to put the question
until after he had entered the House. If the Hon.
Gentleman would be kind enough to put his question
to-morrow, he would make the necessary inquiries in
the meantime, and be prepared to give him an
answer.

SPAIN—AFFAIR OF COLONEL BONET.
Mr. BORTHWICIC wished to ask the Right
Hon. Gentleman a question relating to certain
occurrences reported to have recently taken
place at Alicant, in Spain. It was re-
ported in the newspapers that Colonel Ponta-
leon Bonet, who had been at the head of the late
movement at Alicant, and who had conducted himself
with great humanity towards the prisoners who had
fallen into his hands, had, after a compromise entered
into by the person commanding the fort of Alicant
with the besiegers, made application to the com-
mander of a British ship at Alicant to receive him
on board, representing that unless he was taken on
board the ship it was impossible that his life could be
spared, and reminding the officer in command, in co
firmation of this inference, of the treatment which other
persons in his position had experienced at the hands
of Roncali when they had fallen into his power.
It appeared—at least it was so represented—that at
the same time a major who had acted under his com-
mand made a similar application, under precisely the
same circumstances, to the captain of a French
vessel lying in the same port; that the major was
successful, and that in consequence he was at that
moment alive. On the other hand it appeared that
Colonel Bonet was refused to be taken on board
of the British ship ; that he then returned to the
shore, and in making a desperate effort to
regain the mountain, was taken, and by the orders of
Roncali, was shot instantly, and without trial. The
question which he bad to put to the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman was whether, according to the representations
in the newspapers, express and direct orders had been
given to the officer commanding this and other ships,
to refuse, under these extreme circumstances, to take
on board Spanish subjects ; whether, in the absence
of these instructions, the officer, acting on his own
responsibility, had refused to take Colonel Bonet
on board ; or whether the statement was altogether
without foundation, or, as he was informed, exceed-
ingly exaggerated.
Sir R. PEEL said, in answer to the question put
to him by the Hon. Gentleman, he had to state that
no specific instructions had been given by her Ma-
jesty's Government, or by any authority acting under
their control, with respect to applications of
this nature. The general purport of the in-
structions given to the commanders of Bri-
tish ships of war during these unfortunate
civil contentions in Spain had been to afford
protection to the lives and property of British sub-
jects, but to observe, as far as possible, strict neu-
trality between the contending parties. In this case
no special instructions had been given. It was quite
clear that if British ships of war were, as a matter
of course, to receive those who had been engaged
in insurrection against the constituted authorities,
and that were known, it would be a great
premium upon insurrection ; because they
might try the experiment with perfect assurance of
being received by a British ship of war. No express
instructions, therefore, were given with respect to the
reception of refugees under such circumstances.
The general instructions were the same now as he
believed they had always been, to maintain, as far as
possible, strict neutrality ; and it was left to the dis-
cretion of individual officers to deal with any parti-
cular case. And with respect to the case of Colonel
Bonet, as reported in the newspapers, if he
(Sir Robert Peel) were to judge from the only report
which was in the possession of her Majesty's Go-
vernment, received from Captain Drummond himself,
he should say that the circumstances stated in the
newspapers could not have been true. He held in
his hand the report of Captain Drummond. It made
no mention of an♦ application addressed to him by
Colonel Bonet. It introduced the name of Colonel
Bonet; but he would say that this report of Captain
Drummond was inconsistent with the accounts in the
newspapers. At the same time it was stated that the
Scout ship, commanded by Capt. Drummond, in con-
sequence ofa note received from the Spanish government
of their intention to blockade the town of Alicant,
had arrived off Alicant, and that several British sub-
jects had been taken on board of the vessel, and re-
ceived protection. The report also stated, that
many applications had been made by Spanish
subjects to be received on board, which were refused.
That was the whole of the information which her

Majesty's Government had received on this subject.
As he had said before, no direct information had been
-received from Captain Drummond as to whether any
application had been made to him.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that as no specific
instructions had been sent out, of course the conduct
of the officer in command of the vessel to which re-

ference had been made was justifiable. He (Lord
John Russell) would, however, wish to ask the Right
IDIn. Gentleman whether he had any objection to
desire Captain Drummond to furnish a statement of
the transaction as far as regarded Colonel Bonet ?
Sir ROBERT PEEL—I should think it a matter
of course that such a statement will be furnished to
the Lords of the Admiralty. On a question of this
sort I will take the opportunity of expressing my
abhorrence and disgust at the sanguinary proceedings
which have occurred on the part of the constituted
authorities of Spain. Their wholesale massacres
without the regular forms of trial, are doing
more to injure the character of Spain in the
estimation of the civilised world than any
other course which the Government of that
country could pursue. Ido believe that barbarous
nations would observe greater humanity in their con-
test than is observed by both parties in Spain.
FACTORIES BILL (No. 2).
On the motion for the Order of the Day being
read for the second reading of the Factories Bill
(No. 2),
Mr. ROEBUCK said he understood from the
Speaker, that the proposition which he (Mr. Roebuck)
had made on Friday last could not be entertained by
that House. He was perfectly willing to bow to that
opinion, as he thought he should be able to bring the
proposition forward in another way. He should put
his proposition in the form of a resolution, and move
it on Friday, in going into Committee on the Fac-
tories Bill.

Mr. WARD presented a petition from Huddersfield
against the Bill.
Captain GORDON presented a petition from Aber-
deen, against restrictions upon the hours of labour.
Mr. GODSON presented a similar petition from
eighty firms in Staffordshire.
Mr. S. WORTLEY presented a petition from a
place in Yorkshire, in favour of a Ten Hours' Bill.
Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition from
Ireland, praying that the House would pass a Bill to
employ the petitioners ten or twelve hours a day, at
such wages as the House in its wisdom might think

fit.—(Lughter.)
Mr. FERRAND presented several petitions in
favour of a Ten Hours' Bill,
FACTORIES BILL.
On the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM the Order of
the Day for the second reading of the Factories Bill
was read.

Mr. HUME wished to know whether any arrange-
ment had been come to as to when the discussion on
this Bill was to take place ?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said no arrangement
whatever had been made beyond what the Hon.
Member must be aware was stated by the Noble Lord
(Ashley) would be the course to he adopted. There
was only one clause of the Bill which at all interfered
with the period of labour ; and it would be for the
Hon. Member for Montrose to consider whether it
would be more expedient to take the discussion on it
on going into Committee, or to raise it now. But
he (Sir J. Graham) should hope that as this measure
had been before the House some time, not only in this
session but in former ones, and that division after
division had been taken upon it—he should hope that
on the whole, it would not be opposed now, but that the
discussion would be taken on going into Committee,
either on the amendment of the Noble Lord the
Member for Dorsetshire, or the resolution of the
lion. Member for Bath. He would give notice that,
on Friday next, he would take the order for going
into Committee as the first order of the day.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUME said it would be convenient to the
House if there was only one discussion, and he would
not throw any obstacle in the way of the second
reading, on the understanding that the notice just
given by the Right Hon. Gentleman would be ad-
hered to.
Mr. WARD apprehended that another discussion
would take place on the motion of which he had given
notice, that the clause should be omitted altogether.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the proposal of the
Hon. and Learned Member for Bath to take the dis-
cussion on a resolution of the whole House, before
going into Committee, was a proper and convenient
course, as it would give more solemnity to the matter
in debate to take the question before the House went
into Committee, and while the Speaker was in the
chair. lie understood the Right Hon. Baronet op-
posite to say that this Bill was in conformity with
the Bills introduced on the same subject in former
years. By the clauses in the Bill of last year female
labour was restricted up to the age of ,twenty-one,
but by the Bill now introduced there was an en-
tirely new proposal.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he had alluded to the pre-
ceding Acts on this subject, but the Noble Lord WAS
mistaken in supposing he alluded to that which the
Noble Lord had referred to, namely, the restriction
of female labour.
Mr. BERNAL said it appeared to him that there
was no difference, except in words, between moving a
negative resolution, and moving an instruction to the
Committee. He believed that the discussion wished
for could not be taken on the motion of the lion. and
Learned Member for Bath. He believed the intention of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was to move a general,
solemn resolution that such a thing should not be
done. He never recollected that any step on any occa-
sion intervened between going into Committee, unless
it was a resolution in the shape of an instruction to
the Committee. He thought it better to state this
now as it would prevent any supposition that they
wished to obstruct the intentions of his Hon. Friend.
Mr. ROEBUCK thought it was competent for
him to make his motion, either on the motion for
reading the Order of the Day, or for the Speaker
leaving the chair, and that he could not be prevented
from doing so. lie might be unwise in doing so, but
that he had a right to move anything restricting the
Factories Bill on the motion for the Speaker leaving
the Chair, was as well settled as anything possibly
could be. If he chose he might even go further, but
he was satisfied with the mode lie had taken to bring
the subject under the consideration of the House, the
only effect of which would be that the consideration
of the subject in Committee would be put off one day.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said it was his intention to
move for a Select Committee up stairs, but he be-
lieved when the Order of the Day for the House re-
solving itself into a Committee of the whole House
on the Factories Bill was put, then must be the
proper time for him to move that it be referred to a
Committee up stairs. The Committee would be
confined to the question of wages, because (there
was no use in the House deceiving itself on the
subject) there was a strong impression amongst the
operatives that the restriction of labour to ten hours
would not reduce wages. He knew that they said,
and that others in their behalf also said, that they pre-
ferred taking their chance of a sreduction of wages;
but then they always said that a reduction of wages
would not be the consequence.—(Hear, hear.)
The opposition of the Government to the Noble
Lord's proposition was founded upon the argument
that it would be injurious to the working classes, in
consequence of the reduction of wages that would ne-
cessarily ensue from it. On a consultation with the
Short. time Committee lately, he (Mr. Duncombe)
told them that he believed that a different impres-
sion from that which they entertained prevailed in
the House of Commons. They complained of the
ignorance of the House of Commons on this ques-
tion, and, as practical men, he (Mr. Duncombe) pro-
posed to them to go to a Committee of the House of
Commons, and explain their grievances on the mat-
ter there, and, with regard to this particular point,
meet the argument of the master manufacturers, that
this limitation would reduce the amount of wages.
They complained, and he thought justly, that the
House attended more to the statements of mas-
ters and millowners, than to the feelings and
representations of the operatives. He (Mr. Dun-
combe) believed it would be satisfactory to a great
portion of the working classes, and he thought it was
also due to the public, that some further investigation
should take place on this subject. He did not believe
that which he was told would be the case if this Bill
were referred to a Committee up stairs, that it would
be hung up for the remainder of the session. He
thought it better that it should be hung up
for the remainder of the present session than
that it should be passed in the shape to which Minis-
ters had at present reduced it. That it would pass
in that shape there could not be the slightest doubt.
It was a perfect delusion to suppose that the mo-
tion of the Noble Member for Dorsetshire could by any
possibility be carried, or that it would be acceded
to by the House. The only chance the Noble Lord
had of carrying his point was by fighting step by step
in every stage in the progress of the Bill through the
House for the principle which the House had
already agreed to. The Noble Lord gave up
an opportunity of introducing a clause in
Committee, and he had given notice of his
proposition for the third reading. The Noble Lord
might have introduced the clause in Committee, and
he might also have introduced it on the report, but
he let those opportunities go by, and deferred it to the
time when the Speaker was going to put the question
from the chair, that the Bill do pass. Then it was
that the Noble Lord's clause was to be brought up,
and the Right Hon. Baronet and the Government
would then properly say to the Noble Lord and to
the House, that the clause which he proposed mili-
tated so against the whole principle of the Bill, and
the provisions which had been already agreed to, that
it would be totally impossible for the House now to
accede to it. There would be perfect good sense in that.
It was perfectly proper on the part of the Go-
vernment so to do if they allowed, as the
Noble Lord was about to do, the Bill to
slip through the House until it was about being
passed. Then the Noble Lord would, as it were,
take a flying shot at the Bill. But, as it was
to pass, and when he went to discharge his second
barrel at it, he would find that the game was gone.—
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) That would be the
result of all the discussion that had taken
place, and of the decision which the House had
come to, that women and children should not
work for more than ten hours.—(Hear, hear.)
The operatives thought that the Noble Lord (Ashley)
and the House had been trifling with their interests—
that the whole thing was a delusion from beginning
to end. The only course now was for the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir J. Graham) to agree
to a Committee. Let the masters and the men

meet before an impartial Committee. and let the

public be thus satisfied who was in the right, anci who
in the wrong. Only by these means could they dis-
abuse the public mind of the impression which
prevailed that they were totally ignorant of the
interests of'those for whom they were legislating.
Lord ASHLEY said it had not been his intention
to make a single remark, but the observations of the
Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Duncombe) in-
duced him to read to the House three lines of a letter
received by him (Lord Ashley) that morning. The
Hon. Gentleman said the operatives considered that
he (Lord Ashley) had deluded them—that his con-
duct was, in fact, tantamount to a surrender. Now
he (Lord Ashley) believed that the operatives
of England were quite as fit judges of what was for
their own good as the Hon. Gentleman the Member
for Finsbury—(Hear, hear)—and he also thought
they hid amongst them ten times more justice and
ten times more candour than he could pride himself
upon.—(Cheers and laughter.) The letter, from
which he was going to quote, was written by autho-
rity of the Central Short Time Committee of Lan-
cashire, and it said thus—"'We are all of opinion that
the course you have adopted is the best that
under the circumstances you could have taken. We
shall give you all the support that lies in our power."
Mr. AGLIONBY said he hoped the Hon. Member
for Finsbury (Mr. 'Duncombe) would not take any
course that would interfere with the Noble Lord the
Member for Dorsetshire (Lord Ashley). He had ever
seen that Hon. Member (Mr. Duncombe) foremost
to protect the privileges of the working classes, but
he would not show himself the zealous friend he had
been to them, if he took any proceeding upon the
subject before the House without the sanc-
tion of that Noble Lord (Ashley). The
sincerity of the Noble Lord was great, and
his judgment was as great as his sincerity.
He.placed implicit faith in the Noble Lord, and re-
lied entirely upon his judgment and sincerity. He
believed that the Noble Lord's course was approved
of by the working classes.—(Cheers.) Many of these

••••••-
who had cheered the Hon. Member for Finnhultioweiare,
directly opposed to the motion, and might, roe.
be induced to urge him to go on, in hopes mole
had
on to
ing the measure.—(Hear, hear.) They
delusions in the minds of the working classes coe,
subject, and that wages must inevitably fall in comer
quence of this measure. He believed that the.oceige
number of the working classes were as able t ~400se,
of this question as any of the Members of thtNlr3_., too
They had the greatest interest
much for Members who had no acquaintan"
did. He believed that too much 1
at
ointycsi
the practical details to presume to theorise a.: t.h,eofo
was paid to the master mill-owners and to Poeiu
economises. He acknowledged that the chit the
was one of great difficulty, but he believed te, well
intelligent members of the working classes haunetent
considered the question and were perfectly Noble
in it, and it
_foil
to decide it. He should certainly support the
Lord.—(Cheers.) th°
Mr. STUART 'WORTLEY complaine
tho
the House should be called upon to discuss Dill,
motions on the second reading of the elle°
The Honourable Member for Bath hn,d ;tele
notice of a motion on going into ,`-'.°ool
tee, and the Honourable Member for 1! that
had also given notice of his intention to 1110`
the Bill be referred to a Select Committee.
_jeer'
Honourable Member for Sheffield bad also
meena,
notice of his intention to propose an claw
ment on the discussion of one of theoly in'
Now, it struck him that it would be exceedin
sed st
convenient to have all these motions disci% too.
once ; and he wished to ask the Speaker NVlll;,jeober
tion would have precedence—that of the 11°1' bail?
for Bath, or that of the Hon. Member for Tins 010
The SPEAKER said that, according t°,tr: been
of the House, after the order of the dityiitteei,:oo
read, the Hon. Member for Finsbury al tees
e sns
that the Bill be referred to a Select Comra c
when that motion was disposed of, it Was c°93r;
de-A
to any Hon. Member to move a resolution, I°
it was relevant to the question. dole,
Mr STANSFIELD (who was almost inen 00
owing to the noise and confusion in the }Rose), sod
understood to say, that he had several alteratio'_ the
amendments to propose in this Bill when befor cothet
Committee, and which would affect sever ode'
branches of manufactures as well as the woollen
stiee
Mr. ROSS said there was so much exnggamer
and so many misstatements upon this subject, r
had thought it his duty to appeal to those w"°0110
the best means of coming to a true conclusiolv°oo
matter, so he appealed to several of his constitneabeee
the town of. Belfast, and in consequence he b/elont
induced to a certain degr 11'1°,ee to alter his olmo and
Petitions, numerously signed by working-ate'
young persons about the age of 15, had been preierfere
to the House, praying it not ,to jut flevi
with labour. The petitions, taking a differelettea
from that of his Honourable Friend, nouss
that the inevitable consequence of reducing look
of work would be the reduction of wages. nieleil
therefore, the opinion of the manufacturing elnriim
backed by that of the working men, he had deteritx.
to change his course. Although his conduct wiFteoi
pear inconsistent, he thought the best c0n5,14g to
was that of always endeavouring to act acocr aae.
what he believed the rights of any particular °,7otiti
Mr. HINDLEY thought the best alrll/.lol°
favour of the course suggested by the 11°7 the
Member for Finsbury was the speech of
Honourable Member for Belfast. This ehsul!tbil
opinion showed the necessity of probing doe
whole question to the bottom. When tberstao.4o
trines of political economy were lin%te nit''
The
they would be found in- favour of hu,„l-,4
4ty
Right Hon. Gentleman reproached a rat9,l-e
the House with being a tyrant majority.
conduct of the Government was such as to u
he
the reproach of a tyrant minority.—(Hear'Qerye
In fact, he never saw a Government act in so r, -
and ungracious a manner.—(Hear, hear.) 408
Mr. M. PHILIPS was astonished at the ;00
now taken by the Hon. Gentleman who had,uprptg
last, and who had, in former times, voided all Ihe as'
visions ofthe Factories Act. But he might not 00;
tonished at what had fallen from the n°3',. gb4
ber for Ashton-under-Lyne.—(Hear, and a cepaoir
He would leave it to the Hon. Gentleman bid
elle his own former acts with the opinions w"vileool°
now expressed.—(Hear). He (Mr. Philips) osto
take the judgment of the Hon. Member forgemeet
in preference to the statement of the Hon• ter for
for Ashton-under-Lyne. The 31
Hon. 0111%0
Belfast had been influenced on a former 0cc0..51- tbn
the exaggeratious which had prevailed la 0
House upon this subject, and he Y,Ot sllt
favour of the Noble Lord (Ashley)' der l°
then the Hon. Gentleman inquired into the Teat frog
a judicious manner, deriving his information, 01
practical persons, both men and masters, and 1.1,62.01)
came forward manfully to declare that he was h'
in his former vote.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr,' -11.1)0°:,
always been opposed to interference with the oec`
of adults. He, believed, that if they on
commenced a series of experimental bear.)operatic:
labour, where would they stop ?—(1-learerr'
They would next have to regulate wages—(-"-t it?
and did they think that they could confine OW
terference to time walls of the factories ?
could not. They must push their experiment? the
every department of labour, and inevitably chlYboPe
trade out of the country.—(Hear.) Did they alter
that they could interfere also with the labour o' -der
countries ? Let the Hon. Member forAshtoh'uldi try
Lyne go upon the Continent, in the vacation, °god 0
his influence with the natives there.—(Hear, 00
laugh.) The Hon. Gentleman would be of VI eh°
unpaid commissioner, but no doubt, he woulh'ftbny,
a zealous one.—(A laugh.) But he would ,1113;et t°
he could not induce the people on the Cont" c 511°
tie their hands before or behind.—(Hear, hearq Or
result of the commission would be just nothinglo
inielfiuiscito,nuppornacthtiissedquoesntiotnh,ethpeeroepiew._as a nist-hear)
d (Hear, log,
t e apologised to the House for detaining it 544010°
This was the only reference which he wished °, ,0 th,
to the Bill itself. He had always been opposeao'e
appointment of sub-inspectors to factories. ."e0 '
always wished that inspectors should be gentlei;ports
a certain class and standing in society, whoseol°
might be relied upon by the Legislature 011.0015
is-1
country. He should like to see those i',v,l not
c
selected from a higher class, for he "-
wish to see subordinates sent int°, tends
and factories, by which the secrets °I /Over
might transpire in quarters which the House.that
intended. What he should recommend sy,ss„; ti°d°
they should select men of talent and e"00/
for this office. He also objected t° ye'
central office being fixed in London, e it
cause if there was any business to be clf.litilets,;
ought to be done in the manufacturing 4".4he fl";
If there was to be any inspection at all, let „i tb.t"
and efficient. It was not in the large t°,"},--,
inspection was so much required as In 1-rlslse-
remote localities. He also thought that those
in the Bill which referred to the guarding ° see
chinery were superfluous, as he believed that the enr
dents arising from this cause had been grosslie
Berated.
bad
Mr. HINDLEY rose to explain. He said: hae.
heard those charges repeated three times chlr`ll,l the
debate of 1836 • he did not reply to 601 yen''
time, but as he heard them cheered by 11°°' then
hers now, he supposed that they really belles la
to be true. In 1836 he was connected with t4,0;0ed14
concern in the north of England, and he exPt-nf the
wish that they would observe the provision -1,01
Factories Bill. He himself lived 200 Inile.,-ot
pegs
from it in the metropolis, so that he could
sonally apply to know if his partners ohne`i(lo111,61/1
provisions. After the house broke up he we actor asked the manager if he observed the „.•`;'-e (w;
Bill. The manager replied " No." ^"e twelvi
Hindley) said I hope you have worked onli re "'-
hours." He said they had worked twelve ilcuAbe
a half. He (Mr. H.) asked why they did stake°
manager replied that at Stayley-bridge the,Y,refore'
twelve hours and chalf, and that they were, tTi.,eecool,6
obliged to work the same time. When he 11°' tri
acquainted with these facts, he took care 00 had
should not continue so a minute longer thar'fbsectori
the power of correcting them. When the ch, be
inspectors brought the matter before the hen of the
(Mr. II.) did not seek to diminish the force rico 00
accusation. He did not even make his apPeahrsido ittio
the bench. The sons of his partners came t 0
know what should be done. He (Mr. flin"yagl'd
them that they must pay whatever
trate ordered, and if they did not do so, he °le 41°
it himself, because, being in partnership, „,. colt
fine the id pe.7
legally bound to do so. They were fined 2%11` 001
and he believed that this 401. was the largest "?
paid. But what was the real state of the 01'1)01
factory superintendents made a speech agains,iminisd
a law-maker and a law-breaker, in order to Elt.ecue
his influence in that House. That was what gone;
for. Opponents of his heard this speech, all Its
minated it to every Member of the 11°usero. ensure
was not the way in which the opponents of the hita and
should have acted. They thought to crash tfleer't
the 'question ; but they would be mistaken.--e`etiq°,„
Mr. FERRAND said he had attended a ru
the operatives of Manchester on WednesdaY,lo shoolast, who expressed their delight that they w'countrf
to legislate fur the working classes of thfrott.gelllj-
Theyihad expressed a desire that the two 11 they (1,,,
bers'for Manchester would meet him, but 100::
not show their face, because they knew that am,..ine
frosv 000-.
of the case were with the operatives. the c
that the master manufacturers throughout befune
d
try did not meet the operatives ? Because e, side,
that the working classes had truth on thel.rl Of t.1!1
that falsehood and injustice was on the
tsifaeft
master manufacturers. If they had not t the a t
why did they not come forward and confrolLtevigee
ratives ? Because the operatives were an the cesy;
class of men, and men better able to discuss he no
tion than two-thirds of the Members WllOl
addressed.

"."--