The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-25 00:00:00

against handing over the management of the poor to
persons who could possess no local knowledge. It was
an insult to the magistrates of every county to
suffer them to be interfered with as incompetent by
these Commissioners. These Conhnissit mers were
now to act as schoolmasters, end to intrfi,re with
clergymen in the management of their parishes. Per
haps, in the present days of the march of intellect, the
knowledge of the clergyman might not be thought suffi-
cient, and they might think it necessary to send down
an Assistant Poor-law Commissioner, to teach the pau-
pers the Polka.—(Laughter.) He wanted to know where
this centralisation was to end. It set a poor man against
his natural protector, and led to attacks upon property.
His advice was to send the Commissioners out to grass
altogether—shoes off—harness off—let them be turned up,
be paid off, and got rid of altogether. He could not see
why they could not gradually go back to the old system
as they had gradually departed from it. If they would
do away with the whole of the Assistant-Commissioners
at once, he would consent to their retaining the three
Commissioners for a year longer, for he did wish to do
the thing in a liberal way.
Sir J. GRAHAM said this question had, on more
than one occasion, come under the consideration of the
House during the present session. A great deal had
been said of the expense of the Commissioners. The
number of Assistant-Commissioners had been reduced,
nearly one-half. The expenses of the Commission was,
it was said, 50,0001. a-year, and he should be glad to
know how 50,0001. a,•year could be expended more eco-
nomically than in effecting a saving of two millions an-
nually. The House had invariably testified their confi-
dence in the Commissioners by enlarging their discre-
tionary powers whenever the question was brought before
the House, and that had been done by the present mea-
sure. The carrying the motion of the Hun. and Gallant
Member would be equivalent to doing away entirely
with the present system of poor-laws. He partly agreed
with the Hon. Member for Lincoln that when the Com-
mission was first appointed, too much had been written
by them, and much of it had been written in a party
spirit. Since he had been in office that error had been
corrected ; he had had no necessity to exert any influ-
ence to bring about this effect, as the Commissioners
themselves had anticipated every wish on the subject.
When they were first appointed their position was a new
one, and allowances ought to be made for it. The Com-
missioners possessed his entire confidence, and, as he
believed, the confidence of Parliament, and he trusted
the House would not agree to the motion of his Hon.
and Gallant Friend.

Mr. BERNAL hoped his Hon. and Gallant Friend
would not press his motion.
Col. SIBTHORP certainly would.
Mr. BERNAL was sorry to hear such an announce-
ment. He believed the state of the law was little under-
stood in the country, more especially as regarded the
power of guardians to administer out-door relief. Now,
that ought to be rectified, and the guardians fully in-
structed on the point. A clear, brief statement of the
law, should be drawn up and circulated among boards of
of guardians throughout the country. This ignorance
caused the law to be unpopular, and took away all con-
fidence in the decisions of the boards of guardians, or
of the tribunal of Somerset House.

Mr. R. SPOONER supported the motion. He thought
the object to be gained by the motion was a very de-
sirable one, and that any difficulties which might arise
ought to be met, in order to gain it. The Right Hon.
Gentleman said the Commissioners possessed the confi-
dence of Parliament; but could he say they possessed
the confidence of the people ?—(Hear, hear.) He
had always objected to the delegation of such
extraordinary powers to this extraordinary Commission,
and, therefore, he supported the motion. The Commis-
sioners had introduced the workhouse test— the very worst
test that could be applied ; and he had the authority of
William Pitt for saying that all the difficulties with
which the question of poor-law relief was encumbered
arose from the departure from the provisions of the Act
of Elizabeth. He called upon them to return to the old
constitutional provision of that law. The spirit of the
law was that every man who was able to work, and will
ing to work, should have work supplied to him. Now,
the poor man cut of work was called upon to break up
his - cottage,-,sep-arkte himself from his wife, come
into the• workhouse, and become a pauper for
life. The instructions of the Commissioners had
been framed with a covert design to go beyond the law,
and that was the reason of the ignorance existing on
the subject of the law. He hoped that the Right Hon.
Baronet would adopt the suggestion of the Hon. Member
for Weymouth, and cause a short and clear account of
the law to be drawn up and circulated throughout the
country. He had always had a great feeling against the
continuance of the Commission; and the statement of
the Right Hon. Baronet that they had power to interfere
with Local Acts, made him the more anxious to prevent
their continuance. He said this at the risk of being
charged with Radicalism. If there was any mistake it
was on the part of those who imagined that because he
was anxious to prevent interference with the Local Act
of Birmingham he was therefore a Reformer. He
begged pardon for having trespassed so long on the at-
tention of the House, but he had felt it his duty to take
the earliest opportunity of stating his views on this sub-
ject.

[LEFT SITTING.'

PARLIAMEN TAR. Y DIV ISIONS.

(Prom the Votes aft.,4 Proceedings of the House of COMMtITIS.
WEDNESDAY, JULY 24.
POOR-LAW AMENDMENT BILL.

Report further considered:—Clause (And be it Enacted,
That when any two persons, being husband and wife, both of
whom shall be above the age of sixty years, shall be received
into any workhouse, in pursuance of the provisions of the said
recited Act, or of this Act, such two persons shall not be com-
pelled to live separate and apart from each other in such work-
house; and that to this end suitable and decent accommoda-
tion shall be provided in every workhouse for each man and his
wife so of the ages aforesaid, any thing in the said recited Act,
or in the rules or regulations for the government of any work-
house, to the contrary notwithstanding) brought up, and read
a first time ; Motion made, and Question put," That the said
Clause be now read a second time :" The House divided
MINORITY—AYES, 32.
Ackers, James Fleetwood, Sir P. . Newdegate, C. N.
Barnard, E. G. Forman, 'l'. Seaton O'Brien, A. S.
Baskerville, T. B. M Gardner, J. D. Palmer, G.
Bereaford, Major Gore, Montague Pecliell, Captain
Bowes, John Hie, J. H. Sibthorp, Colonel
Clietwode, Sir John Hodgson, Richard Spooner, Richard
Collett, John Liddel, H. T. Williams, W.
Colvile' C. Robert M'Geachy, F. A. Wortley, (Jon. Jn.
Dodd, George Mitnts, Richard
Duncombe, f. S. Morris, David TELLERS.
Egerton, W. T. Muntz, G. F. Borthwick, Peter
t Ittflickham Napier, Sir Charles Manners, Lord J.