The Sun.
London, England, 1828-06-21 00:00:00

to often discu;sed, tln.;c it was not necessary for Lim
to say more than t_o notice the principle on which it
stood, and wt;idt was this—they did not defend
these grants, on account of any duty which the indi-
viduals in whom they were bestowed did ; but it
had been constantly stated that these appointments
from time immemorial, been given as honorary
rewards, accompanied by some degree of pecuniary
profit, for services performed by miliwy men. If
the principle could not stand on this gollibid, it was
good for nothing.
Alr. HUME should be glad to know what were
the meritorious services of the Governor of Dart-
nioutli ?

6a ii. HARDtNGE—That situation has been,
for upwards of a century and a half, hereditary in
the same family.
Mr.. 'HUME said, Dartmouth Castle he long since
expected would, before this, have been erased from
the estimates. He knew quite well that the ap-
pointment was given to one family. That family
bad the patronage of the borough, which sent two
Members to Parliament. Was not that corruption ?
—(Hear, hear.)

HAIthINGE said the vote was less than
it was 40 or 50 years ago; and these were old emo-,'
luments which had belonged to the garris:;;, for
many years. Though governed now a civilian,
it would not be so governed herear:,..a.; and he could
assure the Hon. Gentleman f.e.at the garrison was
smaller in number now t".iirn it was 50 or 60 years
ago.
Mr. HUME ti.enied that this branch of the esti-
mates had d" greased.
Sir H. rIAIMINGE contended that these esti-
mates I:iere decreased in amount. In every respect
there was a diminution; only at Malta and the
lonian Islands, where there was a transfer of town-
:majors, and other efficient officers, a slight increase
bad occurred.

Mr. HUME complained of the large revenue
which was wasted at Malta by the Governer there,
instead of being devoted to the support of the esta-
blishment. The expense, in consequence, fell hea-
vily on the country.
Sir J. WROTTESLEY said, the Right Hon.
Gentlgman must well know that many officers,
raajore,general, &c. received 500/. a year, though
they had never served during the war. There was,
he feared, no distinction made in the appointment of
these sinecures. The case of Dartmouth Castle he
considered a very strong one.
Sir H. HARDINGE said, it was true, P:-.4 the
lion. Member for Chichester had renr.aked,
that
some general officers did receiye '4llO/. or 600/.
a-year at the end of the war, "'l...flout having seen
service. But it should
,be re".:ollected that, in 1818,
a warrant passed the t!-Aorse Guards, limiting the
number of general.oTiteers to 120; and a number of
the general-officers were not able to live on the
sm,..la stipend tl4ley had. In 1821 the sum voted for
general-officers was 174,000/., and in 1828, it was
reduced to 116,000/., and no vacancy would be filled
up until the number of general-officers was below
one hundred and twenty.
Sir J. WROTTESLEY said, this was no answer
to his statement.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM was not prepared to
argue the principle laid down that these were proper
appointments by which to reward military officers
who had distinguished themselves. i'be case of
Dartmouth was an exception to this principle. Dart-
mouth had been avowedly in r
-lie hands of civilians,
and not only of civilians, but of civilians of the same
family, for a long timr.2 past,—not for any good and
laudable purps'e, but for the most suspicious pos-
sible, as 'no could net help thinking, when he found
that the holder of it had great interest in the borough
which returned two members to Parliament. He
should feel it his duty to take the sense of the House
on the propriety of continuing such a system, and
for this purpose would move that the grant be re-
duced by 1731. 175., the amount of the salary of the
Governor. After a few words from Capt. BASTARD
and Sir M. W. RIDLEY,

Sir H. VIVIAN said, this appointment had been
in the family a number of years, and had been
granted in consideration of Mr. Holdsworth and the
town having built, the garrison. Now, might there
not have been some agreement on the part of Go-
vernment to pay the Governor ? He did not say so,
because he did not know, but he thought that it
would be right to inquire into the matter.
Lord J. TOWNSHEND said, that although
Dartmouth might have been for years past in the
hands of a civilian, it had nevertheless, done good
service. He felt it his duty to say that it saved him
from being made prisoner.—(Hear.)--He had the
honour to command one of his Majesty's vessels,
which was chased by two privateers, and was only
saved from falling into their hands by taking refuge
under the protection of Dartmouth.—(Cheers.)
Sir J. GRAHAM said, that if the Right Hon.
Gentleman would give his pledge that the Crown
would bestow the appointment on a military man
after the lifetime of the present Governor, he would
not press his motion to a division. But coupled as
it was with the borough, he should, in the absence
of any such assurance on the part of the Right
Hon. Gentleman, embrace this opportunity of taking
the sense of the House upon the subject.

The CHANCELLOit of the EXCHEQUER
said they had heard it stated, that the appointment
was thus disposed of on account of the fort having
been built by the family of Mr Holdsworth, and that
some agreement existed between the Government
and that family. He did not know that this state-
ment was correct, but he thought it ought to be in-
quired into before they entertained the motion of the
Hon. Baronet.

Mr. MABERLY thought, that as a finance com-
mittee was sitting, whose business it would be to
inquire into all matters of this nature, the subject
had better be left to them. His Hon. Friend (Sir
J. Graham) did not yet knew whether the fort had
been built by the family, or whether any agreement
had been made between the family and the Govern-
ment. He must say, that he thought it fair that an
inquiry should be first instituted.
Sir LI. HARDINGE was at present in possession
of no information on the subject, but would certainly
make every inquiry in his power. He hoped the
Hon. Baronet would not press his motion to a di-
vision.

Sir J. GRAHAM said, that if the Right Hon.
Gentleman would postpone the grant until it was
ascertained whether the fort hail been built, by the
family, he would postpone his motion.
Mr. R. GORDON thought the grant ought either
to be postponed, or the motion of the Hon. Baronet
pressed to a division.
Mr. STEWART hoped that the Hon. Baronet
would persist in his motion.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw.
On our return to the gallery we found the num-
bers—

For the motion
Against it 7O
Majority -32
The tint resolution was, " that a sum not ex-
ceeding 112,500/. should be granted His Majesty for
full pay for reduced, unreduced, retired, and unat-
tached officers of His Majesty's forces for 1828."
After a few veords from Sir J. CMAIIAM, Sir H.
HARDINGE, and Mr. HustE, the resolution was
agreed to.
The next resolution was " that a sum not exceed-
ing 101,4701. be granted to his Majesty to defray the
expences of half-pay and reduced allowances to of-
ficers of disbanded foreign corps, of pensions to
wounded foreign officers, and of allowances to the
widows and children of deceased foreign officers, for
1828," which, after a few words from Mr. HUME itlld
Sir J. WR9TTESLEY, was agreed to.
The next resolution was "that a sum not exceed-
ing 13,113/. be granted to his Majesty to defray
the expences of military allowances to reduced and
retired officers of his Majesty's land forces for 1828."
Sir H. HARDINGE observed, that this rett:
had been reduced 3,000/. since the estimate was
made.
Mr. HUME thought the expenses of Chelsea
Hospital too great. As to Kilmainham, the late
Secretary at War pronounced last year that the