The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-04 00:00:00

Gentleman in the chair and Mr. Greene, the
chairman of Committees,- who, many years ago,
proposed to diminish the number of Members
on Cominitties, to increase their responsibili-
ties, and to remove all local and personal influence.
The principle of the present proposal was sound, and
would receive the approbation, not only of that House
but of the country. He was convinced that the time
was not far
,distant when the same principle
would be extended to all private Bills.
Colonel SIBTHORP said it was very well known
to that House, and very well known to the country,
that he had a great, an unchanged, and, he rather
thought, an unchangeable suspicion, in reference to
railways.—(Hear.) In his opinion, private pro-
perty ought to be treated with as much deli-
cacy as any public department of the Government.
He was surprised that the late Vice-Pre-
sident of the Board of Trade a Liberal,
forsooth—should wish to limit these inquiries to five
permanent members, selecting each other for the
office which they undertook to perform. He did not
mean to impugn the character of these five persons,
but he thought it was hardly fair to submit great
local interests to the control of so small a body.
The Hon. and Gallant Member concluded by moving
that the further consideration of the Report be post-
poned till this day week.
Mr. WALLACE had always contended for the
adoption of a different principle in the appointment of
these Committees, and he was glad to find that his
opinions were gaining ground in high quarters. He
thought that no difficulty ought to be thrown in the
way of the formation of competing lines. It was the
only way of mitigating the existing monopoly. He
thought that the further consideration of these resolu-
tions ought to be postponed. In the infancy of railways
he had endeavoured to prevent the establishment of
these monopolies by permitting competing lines, but
Mr; Spring Rice, the then Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, had overborne him, and persuaded the House
that it was in the power of the Minister of the
Crown at any time to prevent the establishment
of monopoly by imposing taxes on the railways.
The railway interest, had, however, proved too
strong for the Ministry. He wished in every in-
stance in which capital sufficient could be subscribed
to see a competing line of railway established. He
could not 'see why railways should be defended
against competition any more than turnpike-roads.
He should vote for the amendment, and if the Hon.
Member would not press it to a division, he (Mr.
Wallace) would take the sense of the House on the
subject.
Sir JOHN HANMER said that considerable in-
terest had been excited among the proprietors of
steam-packets in consequence of a report that it was
the intention of several Railway Companies to devote
their surplus capital to the establishment of steam-
packets in connexion with their several lines. He
was aware that that subject was fitter for the con-
sideration of the Committee than of the House, but
if such a course of proceeding were permitted, it
would tend- to aggravate the evil of the existing
monopoly.
Mr. BSTCOURT would support the resolution,
because a similar resolution had been agreed to by
the Committee of Selection, and as a Member of that
Committee he felt bound to support it. At the same
time he could not but admit that the adoption of that
resolution was an abandonment of the principle upon
which they had hitherto acted.
Mr. JAMES STUART WORTLEY wished it to
be understood, if they were to come to a vote upon
the resolutions at once, his vote would be given on
the grounds laid down by the Right Hon. Gentle!
man (Mr. Gladstone) in the opening of his speech,
and not on the grounds laid down by the Hon. Gen-
tleman, the Member. far Newcastle.• some-
what startling to him (Mr. J. S. Wortley) to hear
that Hon. Gentlemen maintain that all local influence
and local action should be excluded from these
Committees. It was impossible for any one
who had watched for a few years past the
progress of private Bills in that House, not to say
that the influence of parties locally interested had
been materially diminished. Such a portion as now
remained could hardly be looked upon as other than
legitimate. In giving his vote in favour of the reso-
lutions it must be understood that he did so merely as
an experiment.
Lord SANDON said he totally differed from
those Honourable Members who desired the exclu-
sion of all local influence and local mediation in the
course of private Bills through that House. He was
not prepared to give his support to any such proposi-
tion. They must consult the local interests of
their constituents either in that House or in
the Committees to which private Bills were re-
ferred. If they were precluded from considering
and attending to those interests in Committee, it was
only in that House they could endeavour to do so,
and this, he thought, ought, if possible, to be avoided.
It would not be worthy of so large and -important an
assembly to do so in it—it was not the best place for
it, nor the best way to effect that which they might
feel it their duty to their constituents to attempt. It
would be better such business should be done quietly
in Committee, than scrambled for in that House.
The question was, would they be able to find a suffi-
cient number of independent Members who, having
no local interest or connexion with the Bill, would
give sufficient attention and time to its consideration.
So long as they confined themselves to five or ten
Committees, they might be successful, but what
would they do if they had forty or fifty Committees ?
He did not think that an experiment with five or ten
Committees would be sufficient. For these reasons
he would give rather a reluctant consent to the mo-
tion before the House.
Mr. GREENE said, the great and practical ob-
jection tc the old system was, that the interested
parties were in reality the judges with respect to
railway matters. Even the existence of suspicion
would form a sufficient ground for appointing some
other tribunal than that which was regarded as partial.
After some years' experience of private Bills in that
House, he still adhered most firmly to the opinion,
which he had long entertained, that it was desirable
to render these committees as nearly judicial as pos-
sible ; and he believed that the present motion was a
step towards securing that object.
—Dr. BO WRING was aware that independent of
anything like political interests, there was a deal of
local influence actuating some of the decisions of
those Committees. He could say that, from observa-
tion, those Committees had not been improved, so
far either as local or the public interests were con-
cerned. He agreed with the Hon. Member for
Lancashire, that by doing away with any imputation
that could be attached to a member of the Committee,
of being actuated by motives arising from local in-
terests, would tend most materially to elevate the
character of that Committee. The measure would
tend to give the Committee a judicial character, and
also to enforce the attendance of the Members and
the more efficient discharge of their duties.
Mr. STRUTT said, he believed the feeling of the
House was, that, in many cases injustice had been
done in consequence of the influence of local interests.
Such was his opinion, because he had frequently
observed that a particular question had been carried
by a majority of the Committee, although all those
who were quite unconnected with local interests
quite dissented.from the resolution of the Committee.
By the fact of those tribunals being known
to be impartial, all appeals against their de-
cisions would be lessened. As a Member on the
committee of selectiOn he must say, in answer to the
Hon. Members for Taunton and Oxford that he found
no difficulty in getting the attendance of Members.
Although many Honourable Members had ob-
jected to this resolution, yet they had not themselves
proposed any one in substitution of them. He per-
fectly agreed in the principle of this resolution.
111 r. DENISTOUN expressed his opinion that his
constituents would be much better satisfied with a
public Committee.
After a few words from Mr. JAMES,
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the resolutions
Against them
Majority for the resolutions —l97

The resolutions were then read seriatim.
In answer to a recommendation from Mr. Labou•
chere that the House should be put in possession as
quickly as possible of the names of Hon. Members the
Government proposed for the Committee.
Mr. GLADSTONE said the list should be laid on
the table of the House that evening and he would
propose it to-morrow.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. CRAWFORD presehted a petition from
Rochdale against the Gas Bill.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
Messengers from the Lords reported that their
Lordships had agreed to the amendments made by
the Commons, in (we believe) the Racing Penalties
Bill.

POOR-LAW BILL.
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY gave notice that in Com-
mittee on the Poor-law Amendment Bill, he should
move, in the second clause, to substitute one year for
the six months therein named.
THE WIDOW OF COLONEL FAWCETT.
Captain BERNAL gave notice that on bringing
up the Report of the Army Estimates, he should
move for a copy of the letter from the Secre-
tary-at-War to the widow of Colonel Fawcett,
which conveyed the information, that a pension would
not be accorded to her on account of the way in
which her husband met his death.

Mary Brooke, 1,884; Jane- Geldart, 1,728;
Newnam 1,688.

TATTERSALL'S.-THIS EVENING
QUARTER TO SIX
CHESTER CUP.
13 to 1 agst Sir Robert
14 to 1 agst Pagan
16 to 1 agst The Prior
16 to 1 agst Cattonite
20 to 1 agst Tacita
27 to 1 agst Greenfinch
30 to 1 agst Alice Hawthorn
TWO THOUSAND GULNEAS STAKES.
7 to 4 on the field—take 2 to 1
COVENTRY TRIAL STAKES.
Even between two and the field.
DERBY.
- _ _

6 to 1 agst Ugly Buck
13 to 2 agst Rattan
15 to 1 agst Orlando
20 to 1 agst Leander
25 to 1 agst T'Auld 'Squire
30 to 1 agst Running Rein
30 to 1 agst Voltri
40 to 1 agst Loadstone
40 to 1 agst Campunero
40 to 1 agst Vat colt
40 to 1 agst Apprentice ,

S,
SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURP`"AL
FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF THIS DAI. reed
GLOBE.—The Repeal of the Union agitation sPoe
through three out of the four provinces of Ireland•lo
population of these provinces is, almost wholly, ~° on
Roman Catholic communion ; and those who 10/ thr
on the surface of things, settled, in their own Lein riestsf
cause of this agitation ; they attributed it to the Aort'lr
whose hostility
,to the Protestant religion and its `-'O,
was thus gratified. The fourth province is oirib
theatre ofagitation. Presbyterian Ulster is prodaisto
its grievances and charges upon the English Pri3te,cir
Establishment, and the claims of its clergy to tlnt-s,oo
sive possession of those powers which confer vs'ttel
religious ordinances, the injury which has been voi
on the Presbyterians of Ireland. The occasion oft
commotion will be at once brought to the recolleetlivisl)
our readers. A man was charged at one of the Thet
Assizes, held about two years since, with bigarei"„oo
he had contracted two marriages was placed bey
doubt by the evidence ; and he was found guiltProoS
counsel moved an arrest of judgment, on the g by
that one of the marriages had been celebrateu, to
Presbyterian clergyman, and that one of the pare irr
the marriage being an Episcopalian, the ceremony
valid. The question was referred to the Irish ititake°
who disagreed; but a majority held the objection tardy
to be valid. It was then sent to the House of ;roil
where the opinions of the English judges was req
and a majority of these also affirmed the objec.,i,
The judgment of the Peers on the appeal vies ;Je
poned—partly to give their Lordships time for cos
tio,
ration; but principally to afford time for the preP hrosi
of a Bill to legalise all marriages previously i3ll
under such circumstances, and to pass such Ot
through Parliament with all possible rapiditkdor
course was imperatively necessary. Until this
tory Act was announced, the consternation an i$
of the families who had contracted such marriage ok
conformity with a custom, the legality of whieotbirf
never been questioned, was extreme. To say „n
of the personal feelings of delicacy and propriety esow
this new state of things had alarmed, the sucercwila,
to property, and other results, which the WOBOO
_„t '
of offspring would occasion, produced an 1111 e
scarcely admitting of description. The ex Cl
use
law stayed this ferment. The decision of the D°
Lords was hung up for a time. A few dois.„ tbi
the question was argued by the Law Lords •
sr
House of Peers ; and the balance of opinions re,tio
con. on this important civil and ecciesiastial quil#
indicates not merely the difficulties which sortuo
the subject, but the impolicy of legislating uPl3'isirk'
great question—involving, as this question Irviel.o
does, civil rights and religious freedom—on. p.artjapoil;
and with relation to only one part of the United ,stio
Had:the law which. confers on the different dencanstiad
of religionists in this country. the. power. of .eelerbingl`)
marriages in their own places of worship, aeeLpu
their own forms, and by their own ministers,
tended to Ireland, this new source of vexation .sioP
have been avoided. A striking difference Of lee 0;
was avowed by the great law luminaries in the vole,
Lords Campbell, Brougham, and Denman, de se.ve,,
their opinions in favour of the validity of the iIaPIX
marriage—Lord Abinger against its validitP,eliyei
Lyndhurst and Cottenham subsequently nt tP,j
their judgment, at considerable length, agtu,,llll 51,
legality of such marriages. Lords CateP"'-„wiele,
Brougham requested time for perusing the erjbeft,
and considering the arguments of Lords lir oil,
and Cottenham ; and thus the whole question re/04.
still in suspense. This postponement is, we
hend, the precursor of concurrence in the view",
;
latter Peers. The marriage on which the quest! jel
raised will, we have no doubt, be pronounce:
This result is, we perceive, anticipated by
Presbyterians ; who are indignant at the posi',
which their ministers are placed. They are Preni;jerifi°,
to get up an agitation of their own ; which, consl o!
the vested interests in the celebration of marriagf_t:
sessed by the clergy of the Irish Establishu Jen
likely to involve the Government in a new a VI
The heavy expenses of the appeal are reported. t° Iso,
been paid by a fund, to which one of the Irish pc lote tor*
several of the higher orders of clergy were collo% 0i!
STANDARD.—The late division in the Freneh,,'b:
to
her is a great triumph; but of all who have a 1150 ,
share in that triumph, the part of England—if sheete
any part—is surely the smallest. Much as the ti.--041
of this country was mixed up in the debate, wf
really had nothing whatever to do in the affair
in t 1
led to it; and this, indeed, is our only dal e.
praise—the only ground upon which webs..
/
pretend to any part in the so signal victory wonwonFrench Government. Had the British Governelee con
the British officers on the spot, taken any parte ▪ oict`
easily see what use would, have been made °' rijse'
actual interference by the arts resorted to W. 06
a constructive interposition on the part
government of this country. The triuniPaL it• 0
however, a glorious and salutary triune.,whicti
the triumph of peace and of justice--one , 011
all Europe will rejoice, and of Which France rtloctr
be proud, and of which another generation of xi it P
men will be proud, if all do not now exult i° iii
much as they ought. The injustice of the der"o.,,e;
of Queen Pomare seems to be disputed by n° tOr i
and from this acknowledgment it follow,„ of
Admiral Dupetit Thouars had violated the "''
14
an honest man, a man of honour, and a getwiepi 0
3
it was certain that he had transgressed his ~tit
an officer of France. But, say the opposition
the proceeding must be supported, in order not t° i
courage our brave marine. What is this, but ,
that the French flag is henceforth to b fly 'l,l'
pirates ; that, no matter what ittjustice if(et'
rages may be committed under it hY ° t 11; ;
who spurn the authority of their instructiatne',
injustice or outrage must be defended and
the contumacious officers applauded and rewarwroef;
order not to discourage future perpetrators of or t''
Again, say they, nothing but English influence boi
fear of England, could suggest the correction ° k
justice committed inadvertently or perversely doulk
French officer ;—a high compliment, ll° ,tati3ol*
to England, which is thus raised to the " coke
poifnnthenettnwhich,universal
protector
nu,eor
f
theec ptorarotifcuthlaeronpapsrer Englased, but Ise
,01
claim, and which we reject with scorn, from
tioci
libel upon the gallant and high-spirited peoPlet ass ei;
involved in it. For the plain inference from ,i
tion of English influence in the affair is, that Fran
incapable of acting with generosity or justice except
pelled. The French Government has shown that It; ;re• '
no prompter to be generous and to be just ; and
joice to see that a considerable majority of the Chsa.ifil
concur in feeling with the Government. The out!, 04
in appearance a small one, we may say without a 115
that prima facie
" Pugna est de panpere regno,"
but the principle involved in the debate is a 1„,1
importance, for it comes to this—are nations tetlkil Jr,
eluded by fears of misconstruction and of jealousTizad
acts of spontaneoos justice ? The French Gover
and the majority of the French Chamber, have derni,,4
strated—that no taunts, no suspicions shall cause 0
to persevere in a manifest wrong; and have thasL' oj
may so speak, thrown another fortress ar be
the shrine of public law. It is thus tha,trio
Ol
future historian of France will present this 'trot/
page in her annals. We rejoice that no act or word',
the
vthinedipcaarttinonf
oEfngnularndnehigashbdninsrtusr;bed the honourapi.eitY
and as members of os
great European commonwealth, we rejoice als°ople 80
assertion of a high principle of justice, by a Pebe
powerful and so sensitive, and hence so likely t°
oer,'
tated where it sets an example of calmness and tu
tion, as the people of France. #

BIRTHS.
On the 24th ult., at Pan, the lady of Lieutenant-C'Ojej
Percy Douglas, of a son.
On the 25th ult., at Gwm Avon, Glamorganshire, the
of William Gilbertson, Esq., of a daughter. ~t 1 of
On the
Rthe2o9steh,
of a son. inTorrington-square, London, the
William W'
/11
On the 27th ult., at Prince's-place, Kennin gton-crees'
Teevan, of a son. li,
On the 27th ult., in the Close, Winchester, Mrs.
Vaux, of twins, sons. hi, re,
On the 28th ult., at Weston-super-Mare, Somerie's
Mrs. Henry Davies, of a son. le Jo
On the 28th ult., at Avely, Essex, Mrs. Charles gang
of a daughter.

DIED. d e°lj'
On the 23d ult., at the Vicarage House, Cornwoo p ,
_Ars
the Rev. William Oxenharn, Prebendary of Exeter Cat7i:rAs
On the 25th ult.. at the Abbey Cottage, near Lee*
Cruso, youngest daughter of Mr. C. Coupland, solicitor.
,iii f.
H uOt nc
hthe
s o2n7,tohf
huelt.,3faatjeAeltbylen3cr-osrotaote. Bent-road, 3.ir.pJoiolic.
lid
On the 28th ult , at Norwood, Surrey, Thom—
Symes, Esq. aged 38. le•
00
nn
theth e 28t
29thh u
ul ti
t,
„W.
at H. Gi
gyhdheo,
ITE s q.
p. a
t, of the
p
On the 29th ult., at Park-road, Regent
Esq., aged 77. erg, o'l4
Bompas, aged 53.
of the irm4
On the 29th ult., at Highgate, Sarah, the wife
E. Over, late Curate of that parish. ... .
utt.-,
On the Ist inst., in Margaret-street, Cavendish-8g „ore-
Rey. James Stovin Lister, Vicar of Luddington, Lin"otb,
On the Ist inst., in Bridge-street, Blackfriars, Eliza
relict of the late Henry Do
wner,Esq. .4-i. Thoelss
On the 24th ult., Anne, the only daughter of su •
Seamer, of Milk-street, Cheapside, aged 19. „gad Dr
On the 25th ult., at Guildford, James George uMer—S
fant son of the Hon. Peter M‘Gill, of Montreal. d sonor
,s_paral:vii:dddlileitlcheracorlA' F
On the 26th ult., at Cliefden, F. W. Banked, sece.n
the late C. Bankes, Esq., of the Paragon, Blackbeat?..olage
On the 27th ult., Benjamin Mills, Esq., of PariK
East, Regent's-park

r 0,0-0
London : Printed and Published by MURDO 'Nu .n
No 112, Strand, at 771 e Sue Office, N 0.112, Strand,
County of Middlesex, Monday, March 4, 1844