The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-08 00:00:00

once asserted that he (Lord Sandon) had been elected i opposite to taunt those who had been once in office with what
• by venal freemen. He hoped that this would be the last they had not done when they had greet difflculti ato contend
time such assertions would be made by Hon. Members in that l with ; but it we; no reason to give to the country for any line
House. The Hon. Member for Manchester hid sa;d that he lof conduet, that Whig Ministers were as bad as they were.
(Lora Sandon) was not the representative of the mercantile They were returned to that lieuse for a different pureese—for
interests of Liverpool. He (Lord Sandon) thought he might i the pirpose of discussing and settling those great national
appeal to the addresses that had been eresented to him on questiens upon the broad principles of justice, without
that subject, in order to refute the assertion. He thought the any regard to self-interest. Their monopolies all hung twee-
Hen. Gentleman had been compelled to the adoption of the ther—it was the same with corn, with sugar, and with timber.
course he had pursued, in consequence of the impossibility —(lronical cheers froca Col. Sibthorp.) He believed the lion.
of answering the speech of his Right Hon. Frieno, the Presi- Member for Lincoln had given that expression of dissent.
dent of the Board of Trade. A speech more exhausting the Now he (Mr. Bright) had met in the county of Lincoln a
s'abject he had never heard.—( Hear, hear.) '1 he Hon. Geri- person who objected to the repeal of the corn-laws, and he asked
ileum had said that the manufacturers of Manchester had him if the Ministry repealed the corn-laws what would
stated that they looked to an alteration in the sugar duties in he have done with the sugar-laws ? His answer was,
order to open the markets of the world to this country. Ile repeal them, of course ; and he (Mr. Bright) would
thought that when the subject was well considered it would be ask a planter on the other side of the House, who was only
thought by the manufacturers of Manchester not to be a boon a sugar planter, what would he have done with the cern-laws if
worth scrambling for. The Hon. Gentleman had chal- the sugar monopoly were done away with? Why, he would
lenged him to go down to Liverpool and advocate the beco ne a Leaguer at once—he cared not one straw for any
principles which he supported in that House. He should monopoly, but that by which he profited. Therefore, it was
have no hesitation in doing so, feeling convinced that the he (Mr. Bright) charged them all as monopolists in sugar as
course of conduct he had adopted would meet with the appro. well as in timber. He charged them with not fulfilling their
bation of his constituents. He did not believe as had been duty to their constituents in thus regarding the interests of
asserted that the people of England had changed their opi- classes only in opposition to the well-known interests of the
nions upon the question of slavery and the slave trade. The great body of their constituents and of their countrymen.
Members of that House might have changed their opinions What was the condition of those people whose interests suffered
upon the subject but the people had not. if they appealed to by the sacrifice of the Brazilian trade ? Had they so soon for-
the people they would find that they would not sacrifice every gotten that, two years ago, 100,000 -men had come out of
principle of justice to pounds, shillings, and pence. It was Lancashire, and asked the ruling powers what they meant to
asserted that the course the Ministers were pursuing was cal- do for them ? They had in those districts of Lance-
culated to increase the price of that essential article of life— shire and Yorkshire the most industrious population on the
sugar. Now, what was the fact? Why, ever since the face of the earth. He lived amongst them, and he knew
debate that was raised by the Noble Lord the Member for them well, and he knew that from their industry the rents of
the City of London, the price of sugar had been continually Hon. Gentlemen were gathered, and that it was the profits of
falling. There was no doubt that the market of Brazil was a their trade which enabled the country to carry on the late long
very great and important one, but he was sure that when and sanguinary wars. He knew that the agriculture of this
the Government of Brazil imposed duties on cotton country never yet maintained the prosperity of the country.
and other manufactures of this country, the manufae- However, they disregarded the interests of those manufacturing
tue ers of Manchester would not be so eager to cultivate districts; and then they lately had their long discussion upon the
relations of amity with the people of Brazil. With state of Ireland, with its two millions and a quarter of paupers.
respect to the estimate he had given of the quantity of —(Cries of " Question.") Should they not, while the popu.
sugar that would be supplied from the colonies, he never in- lation was in such a state, extend the trade of the country, so
tended to calculate exactly. No man could do that. But as to correspond with the extension of the population ?—(Cries
he was jus)ified in what he had asserted by the fact, that the of " Question.") It was to the question to refer to one por-
- price of sugar had been falling ever since. He contended tion of the empire which they would gladly forget, but that
that for supplying the labour market of the West Indies, the circumstances would not allow them. In that country, then, a
choice lay between the immigration into those islands of free population—upwards of two millions—more numerous than the
vihite labourers, or the negroes from Africa. A great impedi- population of this vast metropolis, were in a starving con-
ment in the way of the supply of sugar was, the continual dis- dition.—( Question.) He could make great allowance, from the
cussion of this question, which produced a feeling of uncer- occupations in which Hon. Gentemen opposite had engaged during
tainty. He repeated that he believed the honest abhorrence the recess, for their unwillingness to grapple with this question.
the people had for slavery was not at all diminished, and con- But there was a trade which employed a vast number of the
eluded by declaring that he could have no fear of being charged people of Lancashire and the people of Ireland, who, driven
by his constituents with either hypocrisy or neglect of the corn- from their homes by the brutality of the landlords, came to
mercial interests of the country. Lancashire by hundreds and thousands. He had at the present
• - Mr. BRIGHT rose, and said, from the speeches he had moment many families of those poor people in his employment,
heard that night from the Right Hon. the President of the who could give horrible and appalling accounts of the circum-
Board of Trade, and from the Noble Lord who had just sat stances under which they were driven from their native court-
down, he should have thought that gentlemen on that side of try. Well, then, they had upwards of two millions of paupers
the House were specially interested either in the condition of in Ireland, more than a million in England and Wales, and an
the population of some portions of Africa, or in the affairs of enormous mass of pauperism in Scotland, with wages in the
the Brazilian empire. He should not have been aware, from agricultural districts of that country of not more than 63. per
any speech on that side of the House, that they were engaged week ; and even in some of the English counties the wages
in any discussion on the real merits of the operation of the were as low as 6s. per week.—(Cries of " No.") Let the
question on the great body of the consumers of this country.— Hon. Member for Dorsetshire get up and quote from the pam-
( Hear, hear.) Nothing was more politic in a case so despe- phlet of the Rev. Godolphine Osborne. lie hail the
rately bad as this, than that Hon. Gentlemen should try to title of Honourable before his name, and he (Mr. Bright)
ride off on some other scent—( Hear, hear)—and the largest therefore supposed he was connected with the aristocracy.
portioh of the speech of the Right Hon. President of the Board 1:e had also the title of reverend, and therefore, he presumed,
of Trade, who was a Member of the Cabinet, was spent in dis- belonged to an establishment which was not particularly de-
cussing theslavery view of the question,although it was notorious mocratic in its tendency—yet that writer gave a more appalling
that he was himself one of a family which, perhaps more than any description of the state of the people in tat country than any
other, was in former times implicated in all that was most dig- member of the Anti-Corn-Law League had yet ventured to
graceful in the system of slavery.—( Cries of " Oh, oh" from the give.—( Cries of " Question.") What did the country papers
Ministerial benches.) lie meant not to make any charge as to tell them? Ought they not to take some steps to
particular acts.—(Oh, oh, and cheers.) He spoke only of ascertain the cause of the deep seated di-content
slavery as a system.—(Oh, oh.) He did not believe that those of the agricultural counties ?—the cause of those
connected with the Right Hon. Gentleman ever did anything outrages upon property which were, to a certain extent, corn-
but what every man who kept slaves was necessitated to do.— mitted upon farms, in some of the counties where they were
(Cheers and Oh, oh.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman was obliged to keep private watchmen.—(No, no.) Why, it was so.
now also a member of the Cabinet, supported by a party Let them read the accounts of the incendiary hires recorded
who were the special supporters, in that House and the in the newspapers. It was for the Legislature, in such a state
country, of slavery and the slave trade, as long as the of things, to consider whether their only concern in dealing
people of this country permitted them to exist at all.— with this question was, whether the West Indian planter
(Cheers.) The Noble Lord the Member fur Liverpool had should have fifteen shillings per cwt, less, or not, on
spoken of the strong opinion of his constituents on this ques- sugar. It was their business to see if any remedy
tion. While the Hon. Member for Manchester was speaking could be devised for the present state of matters, and if they
he saw the Hon. Member fur Evesham (Mr. Borthwick) sit- could devise such remedy to apply it at once. That was their
ting by the side of the Noble Lord. He recollected the time duty if they claimed to be statesmen. If a remedy lay within
when that Hon. Gentleman was in Liverpool lecturing in fa- the Constitution it was their duty to apply that remedy. He
• your of slavery, and the only party by whom that Hon. Gen- had risen to exp'ain his views and to state his intention of sup-
tleman was supported in delivering his lectures in favour of porting the motion of the Hon. Gentleman. Though there
slavery, was the very party that returned the Noble Lord to might be a majority against that motion, and Ministers might
this House. He had asserted elsewhere, and he was prepared to thereby obtain a party triumph, they were not therefore re-
repeat it here, that their plea of an abhorrence of slavery, moved from the terrible, the awful, and the ever-accumulating
coming from that side of the House, was a dishonest plea. It responsibility of doing their duty, and spurning the domination
was a plea that was made to seize hold of certain opinions of the monpolist party.—(Cheers.)
which once did exist, and which were now supposed to exist, but Mr. F. 'l'. B IRING said that the Noble Lord (Lord San •
which was never used so long as they had any other on which don) who spoke last on the other side, had addressed himself
they could hang their support of this question. But it was a a good deal to a proposition made by him ( Mr. Baring) when
plea that would avail them no longer. He knew that the Anti- he was Chancellor of the Exchequer, rather than to the real
Slavery Society did send seine representations to the Govern- snbject under discussion. What that proposition was, he ( Mr.
ment against the proposal to reduce the duty on foreign Raring) would not then trouble the House with repeating.
sugar. But he knew, also, that in that represen- At the time it had been proposed, it was upon the considera-
tation it was not supported by the Anti-Slavery Societies tion of revenue that it had been advanced. He had been told,
in the provinces—( Hear, hear)—and it was in the provinces both now and then, that that proposition would be ineffective.
that the real strength of tee Society existed.—( Hear, hear. ) All he could say was, that if it were ineffective, they had now
The Societies in Glasgow, in Manchester, in Liverpool, in means, which they had not then, of giving a reduction, which
Birmingham, at Hitchin, at Devizes, and in several otter the state of the finances would not permit. If it was denied
places, had seceded from the Anti •Slavery Society on that that it would give relief, let it not stand in their way at. the pr -
very ground. They dissented with it on this question, and sent moment. They were open tocoesider any more effective pro-
the Society, from that fatal error, had fallen into a state of rosition than he had been able to lay before the House.
complete helplessne3s. He knew this from experience, and There was, however, one point which the House must permit
from information he had collected, and he had as good a him to re-state to them. It had been used as a taunt against
right to speak on the point as any man, for he the Members of the late Government that they had changed
had visited every borough in Er.gland within the their opinions upon the question of protecting colonial sugar.
last twelve or eighteen months.—(Oh, oh, and ironical lie reminded them that when the duties were renewed it was
cheers from the Ministerial benches.) The anti-slavery cry, announced to be a renewal for one year, acid if any Hon. Mem-
raised with respect to the question of free trade, or the sugar ber who was present at the interview of West India pro-
question, would not hinder the return of any Member of Par- prietors with the Government on that occasion had any remem-
liament who might come forward as a free trade candidate. brance of the matter, he would admit that it was so stated at
(Hear, hear.) But he should like to ask Hon. Gentlemen op the time, and moreover that it excited considerable dissatistac-
posite why they raised this question of national morality ? tion, as though they designed to lower the duty, though they
Was it their duty to look after the morality of Brazil? Was it did not state so. The speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman
not their dute to look after the prosperity of their the President of the Board of Trade on the subject had been
own country ?—( Hear, hear.) Were they sent to made with his usual ability and clearness, but in nothing had
Parliament that they might take under their specie he shone to such advantage as in avoiding irritating
patronage, every population of every portion of the earth, ex- topics. But then one part of the Right Honour-
cept that of the country in which they themselves lived?— able Gentleman's speech would be looked at with
(Cheers.) He declared he could not express the disgust and anything but satisfaction—he meant his narration relative to
amazement—(oh ! oh I)—with which he had listened to the the negotiation, because it left the case of further negotiation
speeches of the gentlemen opposite, in which they had spoken hopeless. The Right Hon. Gentleman stated the propositions
of the people of Africa, of Brazil, of every people of the world, that were made, on the part of the Government of Brazil,
except their own poor, except the famishing population of their which he said it was impossible for the Government of this
own manufacturing districts.—( Cheers.) Who was it that en- country to accept. But that left upon him (Mr. Baring) the
tertained these scruples about the introduction of Brazilian impression that they had put off to too late a time their dealing
sugar ? It was not the poor, it was the rich only—( Hear ) with that country. If they had, some years ago, dealt more
and they could have enough at whatever price it might liberally with the staple articles of that country, sugar and
come in—(Cheers)—or, if there was only a supply of coffee, they would have raised a better feeling towards them
4,000,000 cwts., with an increase of several millions of the on the part of the Government of that c nintry.—( Hear,
population, it mattered nothing to Noble Lords in another hear.) lie heard, with sincere regret, that the Government
place, to Hon. Members in this, to rich merchants, or bankers, of Brazil were about to take the course of protection.
or the clergy; all these classes would be served out of this He was not inclined to speak against what had been stated
short supply before the poor of the population could come in by the Right Hon. Gentleman, or to overrate :heir trade
for their share. If the Noble Lord the Member for Liverp ml, with Brazil. But whatever that trade was, it was of such a
and the President of the Board of 4Trade, had scruples nature that, in the present state of the manufacturing popula.
on this matter, how had they any right, by reason tion, it ought not to be neglected. He confessed he thought
of their conscientious scruples, to deny to five-sixths there were no two countries so admirably adapted by nature
of the working classes of this country that supply of sugar, for commercial intercourse, as this country and Brazil. But
which their own 'industry might purchase them, if it were not the opportunity of improving that intercourse had been r.e-
for this infamous law and system which they upheld.—(Cheers.) glected, and they now came, at a late hour, to remedy that
If any man had any scruples on the matter, he ought not to neglect. lie had looked with same interest at the estimates
consume slave-grown sugar. Let there be freedom of eon- of the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the last three years.
science on the question ; but let them not seek to impose In the years 1841 and 1842, he estimated that the qwintity
shackles on the conscience of other men, especially of men who of sugar to be imported would be 1,160,000 cwts. ; in snaking
were not represented in that House, and who were the that estimate, the Right lion. Gentleman had made a mis-
weakest and most defenceless of the people, and take. lie promised a supply which was short of the demand
who, under the most ordinary circumstances, never by the amount for three months' consumption. Ile would
got more than the commonest necessaries of life.—( Cheers.) not enter into the estimate furlast year, because there seemed to
Treaties had been spoken of between this country and Brazil ; be some confusion in the Right lion. Gentleman's speech. lie
suppose Brazil would allo x their goods to come in without any ( Mr. Baring) was not certain whether the estimate stated the
duties at all, what effect would that have on the sugar question? stock in hand, or the stock expected; however on the esti-
They had had already almost an open market in Brazil—the mate for the three years there was a deficiency of half a
Brazilians had done everything they could for them in ad- year's consumption, as compared with the amount really con-
miffing their goods at duties of la and 18 per cent. ; they timed. Now he asked any impartial man who looked at these
had no reason to complain of them. Yet they found figures, to state if he was not satisfied that the consumption
that their trade with Brazil had, for many years, been was stinted by the smallness of the supply ? Taking the
diminishing. The good of the present treaty they average of the last five years, it appeared that the quantity
had deprived the country of, by sacrificing their country to a introduced into the country excreded the actual consumption
class and selfish monopoly interest; and whatever treaty they only by the consumption of two days, showing that as
might make in future, unless they chose to lower the duties on consumption followed so closely on the heels of supply,
the sugar of Brazil, however advantageous it might seem upon it must have been stinted by the smallness of it.
paper, the trade must be greatly crippled, and all who de- Would any one tell him, looking at the habits of the people
pended on it must greatly suffer. The Right Hon. Gentle- of this country and of Ireland, that if there had been a free and
man alluded to the fact that the East Indies and the Mauritius open supply, there would not have been a much greater con-
would not Ione", and did not then, greatly require protection, sutnption of sugar? If Mr. Ilu-kisson, when we brought for.
but that the West Indies did require it, because labour was scarce, ward his sugar duties, told them that there was a large class
and dear because of its scarcity. Why, the planters themselves of their poorer tellow subjects who did not use sugar at all,
were themselves to blame fur any scarcity of labour in the why was it that tea and coffee were new consumed to a much
West Indies. They were told that the climate of Jamaica greater extent than formerly, while the consumption of sugar
was favourable to the negro population, yet for many years it had not increased in the same proportion ?—( Hear, hear. )
did not increase but diminish ; and had the emancipatian been His Right lion. Friend had stated truly, that since 1831 the
delayed fifteen years longer, such was the brutality and ;ill- consumption of tea and coffee had increased about 33 per cent.
treatment of the slaves by the planter that the negro population —( Hear.) Let him illustrate his position by the case of to•
would have been utterly exterminated. He thought this was bacco. "I hey all knew that great complaints were made of the
about the worst plea that could possibly be offered smug,gling, of tobaeco as well as of its adulteration, and there-
by the West Indian planters in defence of the sys- fore he could not perhaps take a more unfavourable case. Not-
tem by which the people must be rubbed and epoile,i of not less withstanding this, ho sever, the consumption of tobacco had
than four or five millions annually, to support the monopoly in increased since 1831 17 per cent. The increase in the con-
which these planters had so direct an interest. But the qu.•s- sumption of sugar was only 7 per cent —( Hear, hear. )
tion with regard to the consumers in this country was, that Now a good deal of argument had been used with refer-
there was not enough sugar for their supply, He had heard no ence to the question of slavery. He would ask Hon. Gentle-
remedy proposed for this; the people were ill supplied ; the men opposite whether, upon the grounds they had taken, it was
consumption of Ireland was a trifle—that of the agricultural possible to defend all the anomalies which spread through
counties of England scarcely worth alluding to—and all that their systems. He contended that it was impossible to carry
was consumed hi the country was well known to he ileterio- out fairly and frankly the principles which they had laid down
tretten.d to a serious extent.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") Every. with regard to slavery and sugar. The Right
Hon. Gentie-
ihiiere g was striving to baffle the system they had built up man had been reminded of the ca-e of cotton, but he drew a
was no increase in the quantit of the sugar ; there was distinction with respect to that article. Si hy, with the Right
an increase in all the dealers in it, and a decrease in the profits Hon. Gentleman's talent for drawing distinctions, he would not
they made ; some sold the article without any profit at all, and be surprised if he were able to show a distinction between the
in some places the grocers would not sell suear to families sugar of Brazil and the sugar of America.—(Laughter.) The
unless they purchased other articles from which a profit could Right Hon. Gentleman had been questioned also with respect
be made. The object of the sugar monopoly was precisely to coffee. Would he tell him (Mr. Baring) that no Cuba
the same as that of corn. It W
the West Indian isles, in the sant benefit the proprietors of coffee ever came into this country? In fact, it was
law was meant to benefit a manner as the corn- impossible to apply the principle. Whether foreign
land in England. The gentlemen proprietors of ooureries, looking at the course which they pursued with
this as well as he did. No man knew it betteruptEosite knew respect to other articles, would be entirely persuaded of
Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, unleasa the Right their perfect honesty and good faith with reference to sugar,
isiewarevais the was a question which he confessed he should have great diffi.
Right Hon. Baronet who sat on his right hand—(
propounded those principles years ago—( Cheers') hear)
)e culty in solving ; knowing, as he did, that almost every fo-
-whowho, perhaps, taught him (Mr. Bright) the first lessons he reign country looked on this declaration with regard to sugar
as mere empty profession. He now came more immediately
ever received in political economv.—(Laughter and cheers, to the questiont of slavery.' The Right Hon. Gentleman had
during which Sir J. Graham bowed to the Hon. Member in put pwuhtiethhihe
ctetsetmionl very fairly. He said it was not slavery
acknowledgment of the reference.) The country, too, knew
any Why, if it w ere, it would be im-
that they supported a selfish interest, and however much possible to deal psavtietharticleol that came from Arne-
they might have deluded the people in time past, rice. Nor was this the
which the Righttnhlyleond!uffirianblltey. Gentleman Almost had
there was now intelligence enough in the country only treaty
in
nrnirent of Russia ;
to put an end to this and every other monopoly, by which framed was a treaty with
as the word
they might fancy they profited.—(oll, oh, and indications of and though no one could talk of slaver
impatience.) He knew how difficult it was to convince any of was generally understood, yet that modified slaveryil'sia' which pre-
the lion. Gentlemen opposite of the imieoliey of the monopo- vailed in the system of serfs would present a formidableesttrate cwlitfiith.
lies either of sugar or corn. The Right Hon. Baronet, in his culty ; and the Right Hon. Gentleman must retnoan speech on the Irish debate—(Question, quest ion)—spoke of a the Czar of Russia, and beg that his Imperial M
roan, charged with riding over a piece of land while hunting, issue better regulations for the treatment of hisjssuby'eclosuld
being tried by a jury of fox-hunters. He was just in that con-g' (Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Right Honourable Gentle.
dition. They had galloped over his interests—(oh, oh man objected to slavery in the Brazils, because it en-
-they had trampled over the interests of 500 or 600 men couraged means the slave trade, and because the only of
whom he employed in that trade, that greatly
depended getting rid of orfthegslave trade was by abolishing slavery in
on the Brazilian trade ; they had disregarded the vital inte. that country. Ihe Right Hon. Gentleman said last year that
rests of several hundreds of working men, by whose suffrages he he would consent to the admission of Brazilian sugar on condi-
he was permitted to speak in that House. He was here on
h own account and on theirs, to plead before a jury—not of fox- tem that immediate measures should be introduced by the
hunters, but monopolists, and he was endeavouring to show withltrazilian Government to ameliorate the state of the slave,
that his constituents were wronged by the system"they Bathe ultimate view of abolishingslavery.Nw he (Mr,
ported. Who had denied it ? The President of the Board s ring) slid not look with the slightest feelings of Ore. -
Peet on the strong feeling which was exhibited in
Trade did not a say a word about it ; he knew a great this
deal better. The Right Honourable Baronet at the hear.) couitlietrybelon the subject of slavery. —( Hear,
his head of the Government proficient as he was in man to dobest
toit to be the
thatduty of every.
get rid of scourge of
the art must have envied his President of the the human race; but he would ask whether any conditions
Board of Trade the powers he possessed. He had never heard which they might impose on Brazil ere likely to produce the
so many words put together with so much smoothness, and so slightest effect ? How could they carry itout ? The whole
entirely avoiding the question under discussion. And when argument rested upon this. The Right Hon. Gentleman ad-
the flight Hon. Baronet got up himself, he would venture to mated that there was no deficiency in the formal words of the
say that he would as studiously evade the question as he had existing treaties. And he stated that if the treaties were car-
done. Why was it? Why had any class, eitheir in that coun- ried into effect the slave-trade would be abolished to-morrow.
try or in the colonies, the right, or why did they assert the Why was not this done? Because the slave-trade was patro-
-1
power, to prevent the larger portion of the population of nised and encouraged by the noble and provincial authori-
this country from having that supply of sugar , ties of Brazil ; and because every person in authority
which their industry might purchase for them ? ; who set himself honestly to vet rid of the slave. trade
Now he asked some Hon. Gentleman on the opposite side to . was dismissed from hie office. Would they leave it then to the
tell them that, It was all very well for Hon, Gentlemen Brazilian Government to carry into effect in the interior of the