The Sun.
London, England, 1821-03-22 00:00:00

think that a duty of not more than 10s. a load, the American timber would bear,
but that any thing beyond that would most materially affect it ; we should then get
the article bettd from Anierica thafi we do at present ; I think it would bear l Os.
Supposing 10s. was put upon the American timber, and I Os. taken off the Baltic
timber what effect would that have? That would occasion a large importation
immediately from the Baltic, and would be a most serious injury to the holders of
Canada timber now in this country, who cannot possibly get rid of their stocks of
it on hand.
Why would that occasion an importation of a large quantity from the Baltic ?
That is my opinion, that there would be immediately a large importation from the
Baltic, and that the holders of the present immense stock of American timber
would not be able to get rid of that which they have on hand.
What is your reason for supposing there would be that immense importation
from the Baltic ? The Baltic timber would then be brought in at so much lower
rate than it is at present.
Do you happen to know at what time the wood for exportation from the Baltic
is cut and prepared ? In the fall of the year, in the month of October.
Then all the wood that can be exported from the north of Europe this season,
was prepared during the winter ? Yes.
1 hen upon what ground do you think a variation of duty can produce that im-
mense immediate export ? Because there are always large quantities of timber
lying at the shipping ports in the north of Europe, ready for shipping.
What proportion of the annual export is in that situation ? Nearly the whole
of the exportation is down, ready for the spring ships.
Do you mean that there is the amount of two years exportation in the ports at
one time ready for exportation, if that could be exported ? No, not two years
exportation.
Is it more than one ? Of deals it is more than one.
How much more do you think ? Not having been in the Baltic, I cannot speak
as to the quantities, I only speak from Norway.
But the timber that is to be exported in the spring, is cut in the winter ? That
is the case in Norway ; not having been in the Baltic, I cannot answer to that.
If that is the case in Norway, it is impossible that there could be an excess to
any very considerable amount beyond the expected exportation of the ensuing
season ? I have no doubt of the stocks being immense on hand in Norway ; the
quantity of timber cut and ready for shipment in Norway is very great.
What knowledge have you of that ? From my geneval knowledge of Norway,
having travelled so much in it.
Have you any correspondents there ? I have in most parts.
Have you any accounts from correspondents, of the actual amount of stock on
hand ? No.
Is it usual in Norway, when the timber is at a low price, and the export is
limited, to continue to cut and prepare a vast deal of timber beyond the probable
demand ? The farmers keep continually bringing the timber down to the shipping
ports, so that the timber is continually accumulating.
And that whether there is an expectation of sale or not ? Yes, for unless they
bring their timber, they cannot get corn, spirits and salt, and other things which
they are obliged to take up into the country in return.
Do they find persons ready to buy it ? It is bought for the purpose of the
people on the sea coast getting rid of their commodities ; they barter for their
timber.

Then the Committee are to understand, that the people on the sea-coast import
commodities which they are in the habit of giving for wood, to an amount that they
have no great expectation of selling ? They make their bargains accordingly.
Are there not large shipments of timber from Norway, sent to other parts of
Europe, as well as to Great Britain ? They ship large quantities of timber to
Holland.

If the timber from Norway was admitted here on more favourable terms, with
respect to duty, would not that circumstance decide the holders to send a larger
proportion of it to this market, and less than usual to other markets ? Most
assuredly.
Do you know what the duty is upon Norway timber, in Holland ? No, Ido
not ; I only know that the Hollanders enjoy the privilege of carrying it ; there are
very few Norwegian vessels go with timber from Norway to Holland,they are prin-
cipally Dutch vessels ; to this country it is chiefly brought in Norway ships.
Do you know whether Norway timber is received in Holland on better terms
than it is in this country ? No, I cannot answer that.
Then, not knowing upon what terms it is received in Holland, how can you take
upon yourself to state that a given alteration of the duty here, would prcduce a di-
minution of the export to Holland, and an increase of export to this country ? I
beg leave to state, that I do not mean to say that the quantity that is taken to Hol-
land would be less than is taken at present, but Holland cannot take all the tim-
ber which Norway produces.
In your opinion, would deals from the British provinces in North America, bear
any augmentation of duty, without a material diminution of their consumption in
this country ? Any duty placed upon deals from North America beyond thirty
shillings or two pounds for a hundred and twenty pieces, would drive them out of
the market ; the white deals from Riga and Petersburgh are now brought in nearly
on the same terms as the Canada people can bring their deals, that if any thing
beyond two pounds was put on American deals, it would keep them out of the
market altogether, and we should be supplied entirely from Riga, Petersburg, and
other northern ports.
In your opinion, would staves•from the British provinces in America bear any,
and what augmentation of duty ? Staves from the town of Quebec certainly might
bear a duty, but there would be great difficulty in levying the duty on staves gene-
rally from Canada, they vary so much in thickness ; staves which we get from the
lower provinces, Nova Scotia, and those places, the value of them in our market is
not more than from seven to eight pounds a thousand, whereas the staves we get
from Quebec are worth seventy-seven, or from that to eighty pounds.
What is the present price of British oak per load ? That depends upon its
size, in a great measure ; small oak is worth about eight pounds.
What is the present price of British fir or larch ? There is very little of that
comes to the London market at present ; what has been here lately ,has sold at
from 31. to 31. ss.

Would not any diminution in the present duties on Baltic timber reduce the
value of British timber ? Undoubtedly it would.
Do not you consider the timber market in Great Britain, at present, as very
much overstocked ? It certainly is overstocked with all descriptions of goods.
Then if it is overstocked, has it not already, in consequence of that, reduced the
price of British timber as low as it can be well reduced ? If the oak timber from
the Baltic was brought in upon lower terms than it is at present, there would be
no sale whatever for British oak used in ship-building; the grower of British oak
plank for ship-building now can scarcely get rid of it at any price.
Do not you know that in the present state of the country, with a view to ship-
building, it would be very desirable to preserve the English oak growing in it, and
that there is actually a great scarcity of it ? That is a question I cannot take
upon myself to answer.

The account you have delivered in contains a list of the individual ships em-
ployed in the trade, and not of the voyages ? Of the individual ships.
What number of sailors are those Norwegian ships usually navigated by ?
About one man more to one hundred tons, than a British ship would take.
Do you know what the insurance is on cargoes on board Norway ships, in pro-
portion to that in British ? It is nearly the same ; the premiums are at this time
so very low, that there is very little difference.
Do you know whether they are now continuing to build ships in Norway ? I
believe not.

Do you know how long it is since they have ceased to build them ? About two
years.

Do you think it would be worth while for them to build at the present freights ?
Not at the present freights.
•
Mr. James Haydock Hill called in ; and examined.
What are you ? lam a merchant in the Russia trade, partner in an establish-
ment at Riga, and partner in an establishment at Petersburgh.
Your business lies in the wood trade ? Very much in that; not exclusively
so ; that forms a material part of our business.
'What proportion does the export of wood from Russia bear to the other produce
of the country ? I really cannot state it in point of value ; the value is small, corn .
pared with that of other goods.
In point of giving employment to ships ? There were 566 ships employed last
year in the trade between Petersburg and the United Kingdom ; of that number,
there were about a hundred British ships employed in the wood trade.
What proportion of the ships employed in the Russian trade do you conceive,
upon the whole, are employed in the conveyance of timber ? I should think in the
proportion of one-fifth or one-sixth ;my information is entirely limited to the ports
of Petersburg and Riga, I have no information as to other ports ; there are ports,
such as Onega and N arva, where the trade is almost entirely the wood trade ; of
those ports I have no means of giving any information, not having establishments
there.

In vessels of what country is the timber trade between Russia and this country
carried on ? Entirely in British vessels ; when I say entirely, the amount in
foreign vessels is so small, as to make it not worth mentioning.
Do you speak to the two ports only, or to the whole ? Always to those two
ports ; but I have no doubt it is the same to the other ports also.
If any increased importation of wood was to take place from Russia, do you
conceive that would continue to be imported in British vessels exclusively ? Yes,
I conceive so.
State the reasons for that opinion ? The quantity now imported, being brought
entirely in British ships, I conceive any increased quantity would be brought like-
wise in British ships. The difference of duty between a foreign ship and a British,
would operate in inducing importations in British ships ; and there are not many
Russian ships that could be so employed ; the commercial navy of Russia is very
limited.
Do you know any Russian ships that were employed in that way some years
ago ? Yes, I know two or three ships that have occasionally brought a cargo
from Petersburg to England. During the interruption of the trade, the trade was
entirely conducted in Russian and other foreign ships ; but since the peace, it has
been almost exclusively carried on in British. We have had one or two cargoes
in the course of that time, in Russian ships.
Do you apprehend that a diminution of the duty upon foreign timber, would
increase, to any considerable degree, the imports from Russia ? Yes, I do.
As far as your opinion goes, would that be attended by an increased consumption
of British produce, and export of our manufactures to Russia ? I think on a
general view, it would have that effect, certainly.
You have resided in Russia ? I have.

Are the Russians disposed to take our manufactures ? Very much so.
In preference to the manufactures of other countries ? Decidedly so. They
get them generally cheaper, and therefore it is their own interest to take them ; I
do not know that there is any other predilection than that.
Are you of opinion, from your knowledge of Russia, that the duties imposed
upon timber and upon linens have had an injurious effect on the intercourse of this
country with Russia ? With respect to linens, it has had the effect of entirely an-
nihilating that trade ; with respect to wood, the importations as far as I know from
Petersburg, have been upon the decrease for the last three or foitr years ; and regu.
larly on the decrease, as I can show by lists which I have brought with me for the
years 1817, 1818, 1819, and 1820.