The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-22 00:00:00

SATURDA‘v;V_ENING,

Z.ni eTro oiTnat.,l at the Post-ca: 11,:!i!.. The I.ll).A:ariee of the
it.formation sc obtained was convey !At(' a foretn Government.
There you] he little doubt that tl,a, wee the Au,triati Govern-
r..etit. Nt.w, without c/rta n of th fact, it net ins, be
',at e have heard, that. the tv,t, .13ancli
Th w eras, the 5,111 i
A nr,trian Admiral, being n.l C, trfe, wrote to lJiCa in that
thev-ha.i fortood a project for tae in 7.,-,iton of the Papal States.
It would appear, as he inferred from a hat has been stated, that
tin. Lames of those per,ens wire col rtniunlcated to the Aus-
trian Governtnent ; lair, observe, Et is carefully stated in the
report of the Secret Committees of ti.st • Commons anti Lords
that the rames if persons residing we hit the power of tiictie
Governments were not not cutntnuns tted.—( Hear, hear. )
Those persons were residing at Corfu, • without the power of
the Austrian Covet nrnent. The next tin'rig which we hear is,
that there were persons who visited thc Bandieras at Corfu,
and that in the expectation that they avosild be joined by a
large portion of the people, they set otrt,twenty-two in num-
ber, armed or unarmed (for with regard to that there ap-
pears to be some difference of opinions), and landed
on the coast of Calabria. Toe persons who excited them to
this enterprise accompanied them, and, as soon as they landed,
those persona went over to the authorities who procured
the defeat of their attempt, and they were soon after executed.
—(dear, hear. ) Such is this melancholy history.—( Cheers. )
Sir, I cannot think this a'atnels any favourable precedent fur
opening letters at the suggestion of a foreign Power, for the
purpose of preventing war.—(Hear, bear.) Ido not believe
that is a legitimate purpose for which this power ought to be
exercised. —( Licata, hear. ) I am far front say ing that a Minister
of the Crown should not exerc.se that pots er with a view and
intention to the public welfare—( (-fear, hear)—still less do I
say that the Right Honourable Gentleman is peculiarly re-
sponsible for the exercise of that power.—( Hear.) On the
contrary, I think the Foreign Secretary of State and the First
Lord of the Treasury—in fact, the Cabinet and Government—
quite as responsible for such an extraordinary exercise of power
as the Right Hon. Gentleman—(Cheers)—and if any odium is
peculiarly directed against him, I think that odium is unjust, and
that whether blame is to he attributed to the act (and I con-
sider that great blame is to be attributed to it), it should be
attributed to the Government collectively, and not to the in-
dividual Member of it who signed the warrant in par-
ticular case.—(Cheers, ) lle', Sir, the result is, that a foreign
Government, by threatening that troops should be marched,
by making a threat which would be executed—by holding out
feats of an insurrection which was not likely to be of a per-
manent character, had influence sufficient to induce the
Government of this country to inspect the cor-
respondence of a stranger resid.ng here, and who
was residing here in the belief that if he obeyed the
laws of this country—if he did everything that a loyal subject
of the Queen w •uld have done—showing himself a faithful and
loyal subject—he would not have been molested._—( hear,
hear.) We have seen the consequences of this particular
case; but if you enforce this as a precedent—if you allow the
Emperor of ltussis—( Hear, hear)—with regard to the Poles—
the Emperor of Austria with regard to the whole of the Ita-
lian States, and the Quteen of Spain with regard to the Spanish
exiles—to put in force the power of exercising a statute given
for other purposes—to act against the sxiles residing here, this
country will no longer be that happy refuge which it was in-
tended to be—that common refuge fur mankind which it was
designed it should be—( Hew, hear)—but exles will hardly
come to your shores as likely to lead them into danger from
which they might otherwise have escaped.—(Cheers.) There
was in this part of the case no further inquiry required. I would
not be disposed to vote for the motion on that ground, for I
think the inquiry has been sufficient, and that the reports of
the Secret Committees tell sufficiently the facts of the case;
but I would be ready to agree to a resolution that the power
was not rightly exercised this case, and that such an exer-
cise of it ought not to be drawn into a precedent.—(Hear,
hear.) Sir, the other ease to which the Hon. Gentleman al-
ludes, is the ease connected with himoilf—and here we are
called on to inquire what was the nature of the Committee ap-
pointed, and what has been the report. '1 he Honourable
and Learned Cattleman (the Solicitor-General) has
attributed great blame to me for my conduct last year.
I will not detain the House with a defence of my conduct last
year, as 1 fear I should never satisfy the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman; for, while he blames me for being in opposition
to the Government with regard to the inquiry into the case
of Mazzini, he blames me likewise fur supporting the Go-
verntnent when they said the Committee should be a secret
one; so that, whether 1 support the Government or whether
I oppose them, I ant not likely to obtain the Learned Soli-
citor-General's approbation. (Laughter.) Sir, this
Committee was appointed, as I think fairly appointed. I
also think it eas quite right that the Hon. Gentleman
the Member for Finsbury should not be on it, and that per-
sons of a fair and impartial temper should compose it—( Hear,
hear)—but when I hear the Right Hon. Gentleman the Se-
cretary at War, who spoke last night, and the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman who spoke this night, laying such stress
on the fact that the majority of the Committee were opposed
to them in politics, I own 1 do not think there was any fear
of an adverse report from that particular circumstance.—
( Hear, hear.) I think men of calm and dispassionate
minds would be as likely to do justice to those op-
posed to them, as if they sat on the same aide ;
but if the Learned Solicitor-General thinks that the Right
lion. Centleman the Secretary of State has been injured in
this respect, let him have another Committee.—(Laughter.)
And instead of the Hon. Member for Kendal, and the Hun.
Member for Derby, let him have the Hon. Member fur
Knaresborough, and the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury.—
(Great laughter)—and he will then be satisfied, for he will '
have a majority of Members who perhaps will take a more
favourable view of the Right Hon. Gentleman.--( Renewed
laughter.) But, Sir, with regard to the report of the Com-
mittee, they went so far back into history, they showed so
much "antiquarian research"—(Laughter)—that I wonder
they did not adduce the case of " Hamlet," Prince of Denmark,
who opened the letter of the King, and had' B.,)sencrantz
Guildestcrn, the Ministers, executed in his stead.—( Laughter.)
But when they had proceeded through their research, anti
came to the present time, they gave no account of the conduct
of the Secretary of State; they say, as the Lords' Committee
said, that it was not required either with the present or the
past Secretaries of State. They do not say that they believe
the power was used for party objects, but the welfare of the
country. But then they say there are some casts of which
they must make particular mention. (The Noble Lord here
read part of the report, and then proceeded.) They then refer
to five different cases—the outbreak in 1842 ; that which took
place in Wales in 1843; the case of Mazzini; the case of
Stolzman ; and the case of Grodicke. When the Committee
had gone into the particulars of these five cases, and when the
Hon. Member for Finsbury complains of his letters being
opened, I do not know why the Committee should stop short in
giving information.—( Hear, hear.) Then it is said that
Members of Parliament are nn better than ether persons.
—(" Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp.) Undoubtedly,
if Members of this House were to be engaged in a treasonable
correspondence or in promoting sedition, let the Secretary of
State not hesitate to open their letters.—(Hear, hear.) That,
however, is not the question now, the question is whether, it
having been stated that his litters have been opened, he is not
entitled to call for inquiry, and have it ascertained whether or
not he was fit to represent a great portion of the people of this
country, because, as Members of this House, we do not nnly
represent our constituents, but we have to take their share
in passing laws by which the property in the country is pre-
served ; and if such is the case, is it not fitting, when an Hon.
Member states that his letters have been opened, that the
House should give him an opportunity of showing that his
letters ought not to have been opened, or whether he is a fit
representative of the people of this country ? The Honourable
Member for Bute referred to cases of sedition, and rather im-
plied that the Hon. Member for Finsbury was engaged with
those who were seditiously inclined.—(No, no.) Perhaps, then,
it was not his intention to do so, but be appeared to have that
object in view.—(Hear.) Now I have heard a mostable speech
from the Secretary at War—( Hear, hear)—a speech in which
he has shown a power and eloquence that will make him an
ornament to the House ; but that speech was little calculated to
persuade the House to refuse the inquiry asked for by my
Hon. and Noble Friend the Member for Sunderland.—( Hear,
hear.) It has then been said that it was not the object of
the lion. Member for Finsbury to elucidate the truth.—
(11. ar. ) Now I have always thought that inquiry was
the best calculated to obtain the truth ; and if inquiry is
evaded it is clear that the parties did not wish
the truth to come cut. Why, ask, should we not have a
short inquiry into the particular case, and set right the cha-
racter of the Hon. Gentleman ?—( Hear, hear.) If the House
allows such a case as the present to pass without inquiry, be-
cause it is inconvenient to the Government, that will very
much strike at the character and reputation of the House, and
it could not be otherwise than that the House will suffer in
public estimation. An Hon. Gentleman who spoke yesterday.
the Member for Bath, said that he believed that his letters had
been also opened in 1837 and 1838.—(Hear, bear.) I know
of no imputation on the character of that Gentleman.
He was at that time the agent for Canada. He
conducted his case, a case I did not admire, in a
most able and admirable mariner; and if he asked for in-
quiry on the subject, the House, in his opinion, ought to en-
ter into it.—(Hear.) Such, Sir, are the results of my opinion
upon the whole case. I think, as regards the Right Hon.
Baronet the Secretary of State fur the Home Department, the
imputation upon him that he has been the first to go to ex-
tremes in this practice, is unjust.—( Hear, hear.) With
regard to the case of M. Mazzini, blame was attributable to
the Government. They have now taken an extraordinary
course. There can be no doubt that it has led
to melancholy results, arid ought not to be repeated ;
and we wish to avoid anything that might be
calculated to abase the character of the country. 1
think that the House cannot refuse the inquiry proposed by
my Honourable and Noble Friend the Member for Sun-
derland, and 1 expect, as the result of that inquiry, that
the character of the Right Honourable Baronet will come
out clear. It will be supposed, if you grant this inquiry,
that you have done it for the public good, but if you refuse
arty further inquiry, and shut up the question, depend upon it
the public mind will not be satisfied, and you will be obliged
at last to surrender a necessary power, or to make further in-
quiry on the subject.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL then rose and addressed the House.
He said, although, Sir, I am entitled to address the House a
second time, in consequence of the amendment of the Noble
Lord, as I have already expressed my opinion fully
on the original motion, I shall not avail myself
of the privilege which I possess to enter at any
length in this discussion but there are one or two points to
r fur r
s Finsburyie
m Member
ors
which I feel it necessary to call the attention of the House.
It has been stated in the course of the debate that I indi-
rectly charged the Hon. M b e
connected with Chartists. avery fit A
upon the subject after myself,the Co
the e
nr Honourable w
Member for Finsbury, put a false on
iei o being
d
spoke
that I addressed to the Ilottse. That Hon et.
i Member h with
has said
that I indirectly alluded to a connexion which existed between
the Hon. Member for Finsbury and the Chartists. Now, in my
opinion, the indirect allusion is worse than the direct one.--
( Hear, hear.) Although public duty will not permit us to
answer the questions which have been put with respect to the
opening of lettlers, I consider that I should be taking
an unjust advantage of the Honourable Member
for Finsbury, if I said one word criminating his
conduct, and I hope I may be permitted to advert to the last
thirty years of my life, in order to refute the assertion that I
have ever been guilty of bringing forward subjects with unge-
nerous intentions. —( Hear, hear.) It never entered my mind,
while speaking, that it was possible any one could suppose
that I was countenancing the impression that the Hon. Gen-
tleman had done any act that would render him unworthy of a
seat in this House. What was the course that was taken?
The Hon. Gentleman made no personal motion. It was a
h
motion for inquiry extending from 1840 to the present time.
je proposed V 4 committee should be appointed, who WeiT
to inqgire Whether eny altpratioil had bee made in the law.
The Hon, Member says that Ministers were more responsible
for the blood of the Italian refugees which had been spilt
than the soldiers who pulled the triggers of the muskets that
shot them. He lastly said that the present Government had
made use of more warrants for the searching of letters than
any preceding Government during the same period. It may
be true that snore warrants have been issued for that pur-
pose, and I shall be able clearly to show the House that in
iustiAe'd in ;11 that he hai
sees necessary. llly Isoglit slope
the state of the country it
friend' ale" k.ie&eti,ry of StatC i'sas
done. In 1842 the country was in the greatest
danger, but no warrants had been issued for the
f
purpose of exaggerating that danger.._ (-ear, et —ear, hear.)
Yes I we forget now that in one town alone—and I am not
speaking of that town as the one in which the greatest appre-
hension
of danger existed—we forget that there was one town
alone in which, during the winter of that year, seventeen
theroand persons arese each day vvithoet the means of employ.
'tient on which they COUld depend toe Subsistodce l—(Hear,
hear.) I know well what was the state of this metropolis at