The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-12 00:00:00

destroy all the care which the parish had ever eßhibited Watt
-its destitute poor. He sincerely wished that the residents int
parish should be entitled to a settlement ; and, if this lav Ware
passed, l.e should propose a clause by which thoe persons tehsi
resided in a parish should be *received u casual poor, and net

passed out of it.
l‘lr. BRIGHT said that he quite agreed with the Hon. sn4
Gallant Member that the remedy proposed was not commen-
surate with the extent of the evil, and he hoped that there sus
en inclination manifested in the country to endeavour to arrive
at a better solution of the question than that which was pre-
mised them by the Right Hon. Baronet. He had considerable
experience of the feeling existing iu the manufacturing
counties of England, and he could a,sure the Ho-
nourable and Gallant Member that the mode Of
removing paupers to distant unions was viewed with Suspiciorr
and dislike by a great majority of the people, and that clause
certainly would meet with the most strenuous opposition from
all parts of the kingdom. It might not be known to the Hon.
and Gallant Member that in many parts of the country the
proprietors were most anxious that not snore labourers than the
land could well support should reside upon it, and the number
was in maray eases exceedingly small, as the soil was bad, and
then the landlords tried all sorts of manoeuvres to prevail on
the labourers to settle in the neighbouring townships. He
(Mr. Bright) lived in a township which paid for poor-rates in the
proportion of some 9d. or Is. in the pound, and sometime ago ft
became the duty of the relieving-officer of the county to send
a labourer and his family back to the union of Frith, neat
Richmond in Yorkshire. So soon, however, as it was knows
there that there had been issued an order for his removal, the
man received from the clerk to the board of guardians to which
the union belonged, a letter inclosing a Post-office order for
205., and requesting him to pass from the township about to
remove him, an The border, into the next one. He held the
letter in his hand, addressed to Anthony Trapp (as we caught
it )—and it said, " I send you this letter enclosing 2Css., and
wish you to remove into the next township." At a future
period the man and his family were removed, at •
gr, at expense to Yorkshire by railway, and the
guardians of the union house there were then sit-
ting at the time of their arrival. The relieving officeer
returned, but he had not retraced his steps above one or two
miles, when he was overtaken by the pauper family on their
way back to Rochdale, the guardians not having had the pau-
pers in thir possession, if he might say so, mere than two hours
than they began to bargain with them to go hack to Roch-
dale ; and they prevailed. Back they did come, and reside
there fore some three days. He confessed that, with such a
mass of pauperism in the country, it was most difficult to settle
the law at all. It was most unjust, then, that means should be
given to the landed proprietors to expel the laboserers from the
land, in order that they might settle in townships for a time,
and so obtain settlements there. He should not object P.' sup-
port the labourers so thrown upon them ; but such were the
fluctuations of trade, that they were frequently compellki
to refer back to the parish to which they belonged, those who
in prosperous times had been employed by them. The Right
Hon. Baronet spoke of the mode in which he intended to fix
the rate in support of these unions for the future. He (Me
Bright) thought that the fairest plan would Ise to rate the
townships and parishes at that which they had paid for the
seven years preceding the passing of this Act. The rate
would press unduly upon some parts of the country, for there
were parts of it where from generation to generation the popu-
lation had not in any way increased, while others
that now had no rate and no population, might
in twenty years, or even in ten years, if they had
large manufactories established, or coal mines opened, in-
crease, and so require for the sustentation of their paupers very
great changes in the mode of collecting the rates for that
purpose. He was inclined, therefore, to think that that part
of the Right Hon.. Baronet's Bill should be materially altered.
He was not, however, disposed to fitid fault with the Bill. He
admitted that from the gigantic nature of the evil, they ought
to give any measure calculated to lessen it their most eertons
consideration.
Mr. HENLEY must be permitted to say that a measure
for the purpose of changing completely the old parochial sys-
tem ought to be received with very great caution. It wee.
somewhat singelar that for such a great evil the Right Hon.
Baronet should have prepared such a very small remedy.
What the poor man wanted was, the ability to bring his labour
to the best market. He entered his protest against a measure
which would break up the parochial system of England.
Mr. BROTIJERTON was of opinion that a fair rating
within the union was the most acceptable mode of rating. He
was very much disposed to think that this was a measure very
much needed, and which would give general satisfaction. He
would certainly offer no opposition to its passing into law.
Colonel WOOD explained.
Lord EBRINGTON wished to impress on the attention of
the Right lion. Baronet the fact, that in almost every %mine
there were a large number of small holders who were not sub-
jected to rates, but who increased the burden of the rate-
payers. He approved of the measure generally, and
thought it would confer a great boon on the coun-
try. He was glad to hear the Right Hon. Baronet
give commendation to a much-maligned class of men, political
economists, and hoped that praise would be extended to the
Poor. law Commissioners, and their Secretary, Mr. Chadwick, .
who had done so much to advance the cause of charity. He
hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would direct his attention to
the education of the poorer classes, and modify the limitations
regarding the education of children, which were at present. at-
tended with very bad results.
Mr. BECKETT DENISON thought. the House shoel
feel grateful to the Right lion. Baronet for this measure,
Nothing could be more absurd than the present law of settle-
ment. A man might be removed to a parish which he
never heard of, and in which he had no relations or friends.
In many cases this was the true way of making them
paupers fir life. He did not think the proposed measure went
more than half-way, and this was the chief
objection which could be urged against it.—( Hear. )
He was glad that the time had been reduced so much ; if the
time had been still further reduced he would have been glad of
it ; had it been reduced to three years he should have been still
better pleased; had it come down to two years, and one year,
it would still be more satisfactory to him ; but he would have
been completely satisfied If there were no limit to the period at
all.—( Hear.) But under all the circumstances he would say
he approved of the present measure, and would give it his most
cordial support.
Sir J. GRAHAM was glad to find that the House hadeso
favourably viewed the measure ; but he should say he was
somewhat surprised to hear the objections of his two Hon.
Friends behind him. He did think it was not an unreasonable
proposition that a modification should be made in the settlement
period, and that where a poor person was tound residing, there
he should find relief if he were in want of it. The Hon.
Baronet then called attention to the enactments of Charles 11.
in reference to the poor.law provisions conferring a settlement
claim, by which it appeared that destitute persons found wan-
dering about should be sent back to their native parishes, in
which they were held to have had a settlement if they had
lived there forty days. He next called attention to the Poor-
law Amendment Act, which, he said, had done away with
parochial relief, and instituted union relief instead. With
regard to the question of the establishment of schools in large
towns, he could assure the Hon. Member opposite that the
question bad occupied his attention very closely laet. year.
District schools ,had been established by way of experiolent,
and he was not yet prepared to say what the result would be.
lilt. WAKLEY begged to say he did not assentesethe pro-
visions of this measure, for he looked upon it as one that would
operate in a very extraordinary manner upon the social coedi-
non of this country, for it would, for instance, perpetuate the
power of the Poor-law Guardians.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He understood the taunting cheer of the Hon. Member fo:
Bath—( A laugh )—it was one of his peculiarities, and he (Mr.
Waklev) understood it. But, nevertheless, he would still
contend for it, that the powers of the guardians should not be
increased. He could say that he knew of one union where
neither the public, the rate-payers, nor the press were admit-
ted, while tha guardians were discussing the admission of the
paupers. 'therefore he would say it was dangerous to give
these guardians more power ' • and he would conclude by again
repeating that he was opposed to the measure.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
TURNPIKE ACTS.
Lord EBRINGION apologised for having so often tres-
passed upon the attention of the, House that evening ;
but he begged to call attention to that present
state of the law as affecting turnpikes, upon which
he had several petitions to present, armed amongst
others, to that of the South Morton turnpike:,,nc did
not know whether the Government intended resuming tLeir
former measures, or whether they intended to introduce a gee
neral Bill on this subject. The Right Hon. Baronet when by
first introduced the measure, stated that it was to be tried ire
South Wales as an experiment, and . if it succeeded they might
look for its extension to England. The measure was not favour-
ably spoken of by the creditors of the turnpike trusts, and be
could not help thinking that some limitation ought to be given
to it. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer would allow him to
bring in a Bill on the subject he should be glad. The measure
he contemplated introducing was to limit the exemption from
tolls only to such a number of mails and horses as might be
thought reasonable and necessary for the public service.
Frequently the number of letters to be transmitted
was exceedingly small, but nevertheless small though the
number was, it served to exempt four horses and a coach from
the payment of tolls. In cases of this description he should
propose to limit the exemption to a cart and horse. Under
these circumstances, he would leave the matter in the hands
of the Government, merely requesting, that if they would not
allow him to bring in the Bid himself, at least they would give
the subject some consideration. He moved for leave to bring
in a Bill to discontinue the exemption of mails from paying toll
on turnpike-roads.
Mr. MORRIS seconded the motion. lie thought some of
the burden ought to be taken off the farmers and placed on
them who were more able to bear it. Ile hoped the Noble
Lord would succeed in his measure, and be regretted to hear
him say that he did not expect the co-operation of the
Government.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not
give the Hon. Gentleman who last spoke the satisfaction of
hearing that the Government would co-operate with the Noble
Lord. Whatever the inconvenience might. be to the turnpike
trusts and the parishes through which mail coaches passed,
that was more than compensated by the advan-
tages which the district derived from the Post-office
communication. The exemption of the mails from roll had
been established in 171(5, and, if it were to be removed, many
districts must be excluded from the advantage of receiving
letters direct from the post-office. If the Hill were to pass into
a law, the country would have imposed upon it a burden of
more than 50,0001. a year for the advantage of particular

disitricts.
After a few words in reply from Lord EBRINGTON, th
motion wav at,ved without a division.
Air. LOCK neg
HART presented a petition for the Scottish
Central Railwy.
The House then adjourned at a Quarter past Twelve o'clock.