The Sun.
London, England, 1826-03-14 00:00:00

~;~_.~r

311 y the Government having lees patronage to give, or her erbi-
um-act, less emolument to deriva--(Great cheers.)—The clay-
more of Scotland glittered in his eyes, but he did not fear its
stroke though it had been drawn from the scabbard by thi in-
cantationof the greatest magician of the age. He next came
to the particular circumstances under which he was now called
• upon to look at the finances of theturrent year. He had stated
to the House the extent to which taxation had already been re-
duced ; he had stated the benefits which the country would be
'sure to derive froin the diminution, and he had stated that out
of that diininution it would derive the means of carrying farther
its ability to consume those articles which contributed to the ge-
neral comfort and happiness. It was for him to state to the House
at what rate he calculated, first, the charge of the expenditure of
the present year; and, secondly, the amount of its income.-
41e would take tite liberty of assuming the amount of expendi-
lure to be that which the Government had estimated, and a
tonsidereble portion of which ball already received the sanction
of the Ilouse. The first item was for the interest and manage.
ment of the Funded Debt, 27,117,1861. The interest upon which
they had beard so much about of late, the Deficiency Bills,
50,0001. The expences of the Civil List chargeable upon the
-Consolidated Fund, 2,065,0001. s the Half-pay and Pensions,
2,800,0001. ; and ,the Sinking Fund, 6,685,283.. The total of
these expences amounted to 37,617,4211. The Annual Sup•
plies, a part of which had been voted, were as follow :
Army - £/447,808
Navy . 6,135,000
Ordnance - ' 1,754,000
Different items of the Miscellaneous Services 2,225,000
Interest on Exchequer Bills - 850,000
.'The total Expenditure of the year would therefore amount to
.56,328,4211. The Revenue as lie calculited it would produce
• the following sums::—First, there was a small item, being a
surplus of .the income of 1825, beyond the amount of the
-.Sinking Fund, as axed by law. It was not large, but it
• must be taken into consideration. Its amount was 167,0001.
The Customs and Excise he was under the necessity of taking
together, because during last year certain duties usually be-
longing to the Excise had been carried to the former. The
combined amount he would, therefore, take at 37,446,000/.
The Stamps at 7,400,0001. The Taxes at 4,800,0001. The
Post Office at 1,550,0001. ; and the Miscellaneous at 1,390,000/.
• the total amount being 52,723,0001. To this must be added the
payment from the Bank on account of half•pay and pensions,
4,220,0001., which increased the amount to 67,043,0001. lf,
therefore, the expenditure of the country . be deducted
from the amount which he calculated as its receipts for
the year, there would be left a surplus of 714,679/. with which
Parliament would have to deal as it might think fit. It was
-however, proper that he should state to the House the ground
upon which he had made this estimate, because it might be
-considered by many Gentlemen that he hail calculated upon a
higher produce of revenue than circumstances warranted; but
he hoped that the grounds upon which lie thought that such a
revenue would be realised during the current year, would ap-
pear as.satisfactory to the House as they did to him. lie must
take as the basis of his estimate, the receipts of the year past.
—Theactual receipts of the Customs and Excise in the year
1825, were 37,54000/. But .it so happened that the net re-
ceipts of those branches, and particularly of the Excise, had
-been diminished by accidental circumstances. He sneant the
amount of duties which had been repaid upon the article of
wine to the holders of stock in hand. This consumed no less a
sum than 1,050,000/., a very important deduction from the
revenue of the year, but arising as 'it did 'from that casual
cause, he was entitled to assume as the ground.work of his
estimate for this year—supposing of the same kind to inter.
vene in the mean time—that the amount so abstracted would
be available for the service of the year 1820. He then calcu-
lated that there would be a small addition to the revenue from
getting rid of certain small bounties, ,under the measure intro-
duced by his Right Honourable Friend, and this would
amount to 60,0001. There was then another circumstance
which last year affected the receipts of the Customs. The
House were aware that lastyear there was carried into effect
one of the most extensive alterations that ever took place in
any, of the great revenue departments. By the active excl..;
tions of his Honourable Frienti, the Secretary of the Trea-
sury, an immense number of laws relating to the Customs
were reduced into Six Acts of Parliament. Amongst
the multiplicity of these labours it was not surprising
that an error Of a venial nature should have crept in; but it so
happened that upon the article of tobacco, which was intended
to be cargeable with the 4s. duty, Is. had lapsed by a very ex.
cusable mistake, in the wotding of the Act. The consequence of
this was, that during one half the year, between Joy and Ja.
.nuarY,' the 4s. duty was reduced to 3s. In effect it coat the
Revenue 450,0001. In this part of his statement, therefore, he
Was enabled to take credit for these sums which would not be
wanted next year. The three added together amounted to
1,60,0001.; and if that were added to what he had estimated as
thu produce of the year, 37,640,0001., the total amount would
be 30,090.0001. liut he was ready to admit that such an account
wasqlot likely to be realised under the circumstances of the
.coterttry.. It therefore became hint to see what part of the sum
.of $2:0911,0001. ought to be calculated upon an available re.
venue, He must first allow for the further loss of taxation,
in ,130alierente of the reductions effected last year,
theattia o 330,0001. lie took it at that amount, because, us
the reductions of last year took place immediately, anti were
• in amid* during three quarters, it might be assumed that
the loss of the remaining quarter in the future year would
be about what he had calculated. He had stated that the
Yeductiotia cffecteti last year amounted to 3,140,0001„ and
when he now talked of the quarter being only 350,0001., it
was necessary that he should explain himself to the House,
as be: calottinted when the reduction was proposed, it had led
to an 'increased consumption, which had so brought up the
Revernie that the loss did not exceed upon the whole
.100,0001: lie therefore estimated the quarter at 350,0001.,
as being tiete.fourth of the total amount of real pure lose. But
be was very sensible that all the confusion which had recently
embarraSsed the 'transactions of the country, which had bound
up its foreign • commerce and suspended Its internal activity,
must create some lOSSi and lie had endeavoured to calculate
what that loss would be. He knew this was a matter of diffi-
culty, and probably every one who attempted to make the esti•
mate from the same materials would come to a different con.
.elusion. But he had supposed that it might amount, including
losses upon the 'educed taxes, to 1,300,0001. lie knew it was
difficult to conic to any satisfactory conclusion upon such a
subject, hut he thought he had not been unreasonable in cal-
culating the deficiency at that amount. He expected that the
House would concur with him in this view, and particularly
when he stated that the Excise Revenue for the first month of
the year, notwithstanding the great pressure of the times, and
although the officers had been directed not to press too severely
for the payments.—(Hear, hear I)—Yet it appeared that the
Kingdom
receipt of the Excise, in all the branches of the United
Kingdom exhibited a loss upon articles in which an alteration
of Ilse duties had taken place of not more than 2,31191. In the
TM/14th of January, 1825, the produce of the Excise was
2,269,6691. In the corresponding month of 1820, the
receipts were 2 257,2801., shewmg a decrease as he
had stated of only 2,3891. Upon these items, upon
which the duties had been re4:.uced, viz. cider,
glass, licences, sweets, and vinegar, a lose bad been incurred
of 102,0001. The produce upon these articles for the same
*lead was for 1825, 20'2,0001.; for 1826, 190,9371., showing a
diminution of about 102,0001. But this arose almost entirely
from the alterations which had taken place, and not from a
diminished consumption of the articles, or any thing which,
ought to shake the confidence of the House in the future pro.
.duce of this branch of Revenue. It should be attributed almost
entirely to the change which had token place with regard to
rlicences in Ireland. An Act was passed, by which a diffiirence
WAS made in respect to towns sending Members to Parliament;
he was never able to fathom the meaning of this—(a
but be supposed there was some reason for it. The recent law
had assimilated the regulation of licences to the practice in
&gland, by which the duties were not payable till the sear
. after the licences were granted. It was quite clear, therefore,
that if they took the articles which proved the capacity of
the people to consume, the diminution had not exceeded
4,0001. He thought then lie had made no unreasonable de-
mand upon the House, when he called upon them to state
the loss likely to fall upon the revenue at 1,300,0001. He
would next chew he expected that deficiency to arise. The
actual produce of the Stamps in 1825 was 7,477.9431., for
the present year he should take them at 7,400,0001. ; the
receipts of the Post Office in 1825 were 14595,0001., he should
new take them at 1,559,9091., the Assessed Taxes last year
produced 4,990,0001., and as title year they would undergo
the loss of three.fourths of the last reduction which did not
come into operation until the 10th of October, 1826, he would
.assume it to be 190,000/., making the estimated amount
4,000,0001. The Miscellaneous Items would be longer than
usual, and the encrease would arise partly from these cir-
cumstences. There was a sum of 100;0001. due to this
L74u-nt-rY in 1025, under a Treaty with Holland, which sum
was MA actually received within the year; but which he
believed was now in the Exchequer and would form part of
'the maim.* of the year 1820. There was another sum which
he thought would not have fallen again into his hands, from
which he was sSr&id many people would suppose the never..
'4Htling 14°21". Ho was not aware of the fact when the Bill

was asked;p but he found that by the course they had taken
the drawings would be protracted through 'this year. He took
any blame that might arise from this ignorance‘to himself. It
was done--it was his fault, and it could not now be helped.—
From this source the sum of 180,0001. would accrue to the
Revenue this year. He had always been of opinion, that this
system ought to be put an end to, and that it was unworthy of a
good Government to draw its resources from encouraging the
vices of the people.—(Cheers.)—There was another item which
would bring in a considerable sum of money—hemeant the re-
turn' of the old giver coin of Ireland. Last year they had sent
500,0001. in new coinage, and the coin which would come
back, calculated to be worth about 400,0001., would
be available for the services of the year. There was
another sum arising out of an arrangement between the Ad-
miralty and the East India Company, by which the latter had
agreed to pay 60,0001. in consideration of the Navy having been
augmented in order to aid them with forces. for the defence of
their possessions. All these stuns accounted for the Increase
under the particular head of Miscellaneous items. The result
then was, that he thought he might assume the receipt of the
year would leave a surplus, with which they would have to deal
as they might see fit, of 714,000/. Now, this sum, perhaps,
was not very large but he thought it was worth somethingand
might effect considerable good ; but their choice in its applica-
tion he feared was limited. When the Is. of' the duty on
tobacco lapsed, the Government were asked what they meant
to do, when in jantiary, the old law would revive. What
they said was, that they should not decide until the plea-
, sure of Parliament was known upon the subject, and under
the circumstances, he thought it Incumbent upon them
to leave the duty as it now stood. He did not at all mean to
say, that they might not go further in the reduction of his duty
with great advantage to the country, but it was not expedient
at present to relinivish„any productive source of revenue. Ile
understood that this partial diminution of duty had already put
some check upon the smuggling of Tobacco in Ireland. He
estimated the logs which would arise from this at 600,0001. He
should have been glad to have carried the reduction further,and
to have extended` it to other heads, but the circumstances of the
times would not allow it.' ,He did not wish to set up for a pro.
phet, nor to hold out foolish hopes, the fulfilment of which it
would be extravagant to expect. But when it was seen that
he had reduced eight millions of taxes in three years, it might
be supposed that lie should not be slow in snaking a more ex-
tensive application of the same principles when he found
himself able, as he had the greatest confidence he should
hereafter be. He had now shown that they were not only in a
state to meet the wants of the country, but also to carry some-
what ftirther die system of reduction upon which they had
been regularly acting. But there was still another subject
to which it was his duty to call the attention of the
House. But Gentlemen were aware that much had been
said of the state In . which the Bank of England was
placed, and although he was always ready to defend the con-
duct of the Bank, in whatever advance they had made, yet he
had always thought it a desirable thing to reduce the advance
and to diminish the amount of, the Unfunded Debt. On the
Stir of January of the present year there wore six millions of
Exchequer Bills in the hands of the Bank—lie meant of those
upon which they had advanced money to Government. There
were also others which they had purchased, and which they were
at liberty, like any other purchaser, to sell in the market when-
ever they thought fit. It was already known to the Committee
that in the month of February they had consented to pus.
chase the amount of two millions of those which were
outstanding, with the intention of relieving the pressure
upon the Market and of aftbrding, at the same time, a
general relief to the country by an extension of the Cur-
rency.—lt was quite clear at that time that it would not
be prudent for them to purchase unless assured of repayment
within some limited and rather short period. An understand.
ing had accordingly been allowed to prevail that the repayment
should not be postponed much beyond the month of June. It
was also perfectly well known that the Bank had agreed to'
make advances upon, goods to a certain amount, and it was felt
to be desirable that they should on that account be relieved
some part of their advances to Government. What was pro.
posed therefore was to repay to the Bank six millions. The
whole amount of Exchequer Bills held by the Bank was eleven
millions.

On the let of January they held . .C 6,000,000
Taken up in February 2,000,000
Received tut Security for Advance to Pay off Diseen.
tient Four per Cent. Holders , . . 3,000,000

.£11,000,000
Those of the latter class were charged upon the Sinking Fund,
and some progress had been already made in paying them off,
and indeed they would ull be paid off bY the operation of that
Fund in the course of the present year. There remained then
eight millions of the other descriion of adVances, and of these
it was proposed to pay oll'six millions,_ in order fully to redeem
the pledge given by Government, when it took the recent un-
usual steps for the convenience of the public. He thought it
advisable to fund, besides this amount, 2,000,000 more of these
now outstanding in theliands of the public, and should there.
fore, in the course of the present Session, have to propose a
funding in the whole of eight or nine millions. He was far
from thinking that the reduction in the amount of outstanding
Exchequer Bills ought not to go further; but it wastertainly
true that they might go too rapidly. When the Sinking Fund
was released from the ineumbrance to which he had alluded,
he confessed he saw no reason why it should not be made ap-
plicuble to the redemption of the Unfunded Debt. When this
fund was fixed at five millions, it was enacted that it should •go
on accumulating at compound interest. .This principle 'might
be preserved as effectually when it was employed in the
redemption of the Unfunded as of the Funded Debt,
taking care of course that the interest of the Exchequer Bills
purchased by the Sinking Fund should be perpetually
added to the Fund. He did not apprehend any inconve-
nience from the reduction .of the amount applicable to the
' purchase of stock, which would be occasioned by this ar-
rangement. Ile should therefore have to propose during
the present Session, a measure to render the Sinking Fund up.
plicable to the redemption of the Unfunded Debt. Thus he
had endeavoured to state how the Finances of the country stool :
how, according to the prospective view he took of the subject,
they were likely to stand for the next year, and how, in the
opinion of Government they ought now to proceed. He would
venture to say, that he contemplated a prosperous future. He
was not ashamed of that word prosperous. A nation might
well be termed prosperous when possessieg all the elements of
greatness within itself, it sees its Government studious of every
practicable improvement. He would confidently expect the
future prosperity of the country when he saw its foreign policy
conducted upon principles which must extend and strengthen
its influence amongst the nations of the world, by support.
ing its character of good faith ; when he saw the Parlia-
ment intern, Session after Session upon rendering the Laws
better understood by those for whose advantage they
' were framed; when he saw the ,Financial system reduced to
simplicity and folloWing the precepts of a wise and liberal eco-
nomy ; when he saw all this sanctioned and enforced by Par-
liament; and when he saw the light of' knowledge generally
diffused amongst the people, dispelling the mists of prejudice
and subduing all the tendencies to disorder,—when lie saw all
these thinks, he was right in saying that the country was in a
state which justified the most confident anticipations of pro.
gressive welfare and greatness. It was true that she might be
assailed, as she had been, by occasional tempests, that she
might have to endure " the slings and arrows of outrageous for-
tune," yet she would always possess the courage to " take up
arms against a sea of troubles"—(Cheers)—and would always,
he trusted, whew that she could " by opposing end them."—
(Cheers.)—He entertained an unabated confidence that they
should advance, notwithstanding any temporary obstruction by
systematic steps to that end of all good government, the welfare
and happiness of the people.---(The Right Hon. Gentleman
having moved the usual Annual Duties on Pensions, Offices,
and Personal Estates, in Great Britain, Wales, and Berwick-
upon-Tweed, then sat down amidst loud and repeated cheers
from ell parts of the house.)
Mr. MAHER. II V then rose to address the House, but from
the noise caused by a great number of Members leaving the
House at the same time, he was for a considerable time on
his legs before one syllable of what he said was audible in the
gallery. The first observation which we could collect was
that of his charging the Chancellor of the Exchequer with a
fallacy, in going so far back as the year 1816. in his compari-
son of the amount of' debt with what it was at present. He '
hinilsahteedr.yeanrse.
amount the
tct proceededof ilr ttioe bcto nitnecnrtei stehda at
ncsotne al pared
dwi
wasit paying with
did
but this made little alteration in our case. It
not object to the principle of the funding of Exchequer ;
one hand, and borrowing with the other. As to the estimate
be most glad to go with the
of revenue for this year, he
it d
what
made on Elf&
ciently certain data. The Right Hon. Gentleman tad not been
Right lion. Gentleman in etahokuinldg
had taken
he had calculated,
but he was afraid the calculation
only one month of last year with one of the pation made fromresent. But he
(Mr. Maberly) should like to have the calcination
the Ist of January, this year, to the present time,
and compared
with the same period of the last year. That would have been
an the one he
much. better ground on which to have gone, t
his principle
had chosen. Doubtint , therefore, the accuracy of
of calculation, he could not place much reliance on his
told
esti-
mated surplus. Last year the Right Hon. Gentleman had
them that they were to have a surplus of 864,0001., and it
turned out not to be a fifth of that sum • and this year they
were told they were to have a surplus of 714,0001.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
the calculation to which the Hon. Member alluded was made,.
last year before the reduction of taxes took place, and of
Course the surplus was less by die amount of the taxes
reduced.

Mr. MABERLY.—That of course would alter his argu.

meet as to that point. Still, however, he must repeat his re.
gret, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had hot made his calcula-
tion on the produce of the revenue up to the present period ;
for if it should turn out that there was a great falling off in the
revenue in the month of February, the Honourable Member
could hardly be said to have made a fair calculation. As to
the reduction of the umfunded debt, he did not object to it ;
but he did contend, that a morq,favourable moment might have
been selected, when it could have been done withmore ad.
vantage 'to the public. The Right Honourable Gentleman
had expressed an intention of making the Sinking Fund ap-
plicable to the reduction of the unfunded as well as the
funded debt, but he (Mr: Alaberly) thought, that before he
made any such alteration, h would be much better to apply
the Sinking Fund for the purpose of getting rid of the dead
weight of 2,800,0001., now paid on account of the half-pay and
pensions.

Mr. HUME contended that the statement of the Right Hon.
Gentlenian, which alleged the increase of our national re-
sources, was not correct. He had selected :wo periods between
which he instituted a comparison for the purpose of serving his
argument. The years he chose were 1810, a period of excessive
depression, and 1825, a period of elevation in the contrary ex-
treme, for which we were now paying. The proper way would
have been to take a larger period on which to found his infer-
ences. He (Mr. Hume) would show that there was a depression
in all the articles of consunytion, particularly in malt, clueing
the last ten years. Of this he would undertake to satisfy the
House as soon as the Returns were furnished, which were ne-
cessary to complete the_ series of Returns for which he had
moved. He hoped that the Hon. Member for Abingdon would
move fbr,Returns of a Cash Account. A Cash Account on the
present Occasion was surely as necessary as it would be for a
mercantile Gentleman in balancing his books. The Right •
Hon. Gentleman bad stated the increase on the article of Beer
to be sixteen and a half per cent., and that on Malt to be 50
per cent. Now it was well known that people did not drink
more than half the quantity of malt liquor at the present time
which the public were in the habit of consuming between the
years 1788 and 1792. The consequent decrease on malt no less
than 41 per cent. The article of sugar had also suffered a de-
crease, the precise amount of which he was not prepared to
• state • and though the increase on tea was said to have reached
• 30 0;40 per cent., he would undertake to slew that tea had
continued stationary for the last '2O years. If the statements
obtained credit, which alleged the ability of the people to sus-
tain the enonnous burthens imposed on them, it was what the
country would not expect. The people hoped for relief from
taxation, and he had heard no good reason advanced to phew
why a military establishment should be kept up in a time of
peace, which was greater than at any period of the war. He
protested against the statement now laid before the House,
feeling that the country with regard to charge was in a worse
condition than on the sth of January 1819. It was now
more loaded than ,1817-18, or—l 9, in which last year the
advantages arising from the Sinking Fund was given up.
Instead of Exchequer Bills, he would wish the Sinking
Fund to be made available to the public debt. lie was bound
to acknowledge that great credit was due to the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and
the President of'dic Beard of Trade, for the services which they
had rendered to trade, by retrieving the restrictions under
which it laboured ; but the financial evittem now pursued was,
in fact, a pure loss.t.o the country. •
,The reflections, which had
been cast upon Scotland, he did not think it necessary to notice;
they only showed a total Jack of argument. It was natural
enough for many persons to like the continuance of taxes. The
enormous expence attendant on the collection of the revenue in
Ireland induced hitn, for three successive years, to divide the
House on the question' Of investigating' the subject ; and when
at length Commiasiongs, were, pent Aver for the purpose, the
result of their inquiries showed the necessity of the measure
which lie had urged. • In the Revenue Department, he thought
that the higher classes of officers were greatly overpaid, while
in lower classes were but inadequately remunerated. Notwith-
standing the good prospects held out by the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, he could not 'expeet "that-'the country would be
content to find that expensive establishments; were increased at
the same time that the debt" was rallied: As to a reduction it
could not be hoped for, until the landed interests came forward,
as they did before, to require it ; then, and not till then, he
was sure it would be granted. - For three.years, reductions were
to have gone on progressively, and the surplus of the Sinking
Fund was to have reduced' tire` G10E160,0004 'this years but no
such thing had takon race.
' •
Sir J. NEWPOR I„ considered tire country much indebted
to the Chancellor of the Exchecitter and the President of. the
Board of Trade. Much ivod had been done by the Commis-
sioners sent to investigate the state of the Revenue in Ire-
land. A moral improvement bpi taken place, in that coup,
try by the reduCtion of tintititiPeti articlea,, which hid the
effect of putting down the preserritas.of smuggling. He would
strongly recommend a further reduction of one shilling in
the pound in tine duty an tobacco. "The 'Chancellor of the
Exchequer had his hearty thanks for bringing the Revenue
department of Ireland to this'country, and thereby making
every man pay just what he ought. The Revenue Commis-
sioners were entitled to much praise tor whit they had already
done, but one report of an important nature yet remained to be
furnished. It was a well-known fact, that Stib-Commissioners
in Ireland were in the habit of trying revenue causes, and that
the Sub-Commissioner who was Judge in one Court where his
Fellow-Commissioner was plaintiff; became plaintiff in another
where the latter presided as Judge. Thus were the Sub-Corn.
missioners mutually Judges of each other's 'causes—an abuse
which called loudly for reform. lie regretted that. therd was
yet no report on the subject of the Irish Post (Vice, because
the Commissioners had not yet finished their inquiries into the
affairs of the English and Scotch Post Offices. But the abuses
which existed in the Irish Establishment, he thought, ought to
be made the subject of a separate COMmittlion, and if manifest
abuses were discovered, he hoped that the English and Irish
Post.office departments would be consolidated as other depart.
merits had been. He concluded whir repeating, that he gave to
the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite, his high, hearty, and un-
reserved praise.

Mr. BARING could not reconcile it to himself, to let so im-
por.ant a subject Pass without offering some observations upon
it. Every financial statement, he was aware, must be founded on
an estimate; but he must be a hold man indeed who could un-
dertake to say what would result from the revenue of the coun.
try. When bubble fortunes had existed, there must necessarily
be a bubble revenue. And as a revenue arises from the con.
sumption of articles, many of which are part of the luxuries of
life ; when people can no longer afford to indulge in them, the
decrease of consumption must be followed by a corresponding
decrease in the revenue.' To, the Chancellor of the Exchequer
an estimate was undoubtedly necessary, and under such extra-
ordinary circumstances, he did not think that a Minister was
answerable for results. He doubted whether the stated amount
of surplus was sufficient to justify the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer in his expectations and even on his own showing,
unless he (Mr. Baring) mistook him, there was no real sur-
plus at all. Thep were two iterns--one of 400,000/. from the
return of Irish coin, anti another of 100,000/. from the Lottery.
Both were casual receipts, and not likely to continue. In
America there was a sinking fund ; France there was one
five or six times the amount of ours; in Prussia and in all the
continental countries, with the exception of Spain, there were
sinking funds adequate to meet contingencies. In the present
case he would say that two millions and a half was the extent
of our Sinking Fund. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had
said, look to the 1,300,0001. reduction in the charge. But when
it was recollected that a saving of 1,600,0001 . had been gained
by the reduction of the Five per Cents. to Four, t would ap.
Pear that so far from a diminution there was really an increase.
He regretted that no arrangement had been made with the
Bank as to the dead weight of eight millions, to which five
more would be added in a few years, so that It would amount to
no lesi a sum than thirteen millions.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted that
the 880,0001. to be derived from Irish Coin end the Lottery,
were necessarily casual receipts. He had stated that a retitle.
don of 13,0001. would take place in the two main branches of
the revenue. He calculated on improvement in the next year
from the manifest improvement in the present. As to the re.
duction of the debt, the reduction of the 8 per Cents. was not
included in that account, but the reduction of the 4 per Cents.
was, On the question of arrangement with the Bank; he justi.
fled the course which Government took, though he was not in.
sensible to the objections which had been raised against it. Out
of nine millions funded, it was intended to pay off six millions
to the Bank, and Exchequer Bills in the hands of the public,
with the remaining three millions.

Mr. CALCRAFT made a few observations, and concluded
with congratulating the country on the statement of the Chan.
cellor of the Exchequer.
ME3IBL:11, whose name we could not learn, thought that
the proposed arrangement cf consolidation would be highly be.
nefictal to Scotland; but at the same time he strongly objected
to the blame which had beet cast upon the country by the Chan.
cellor of the Exchequer.
The Cii4NCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER thought be
had rather eulogised Scotland, and only wondered that people
could he found there who tiered in seotitnent from his trial.
,lant Friend. He hoped however, that the whole nation would
now concur in the opinions which the Gallant and lion. Geu.
tleman had expiessed.
Sir C. FORBES said that the pains taken to answer anony-
mous publicttions chewed that the galled jade winced. He
hived they would not meddle with the Banking System of
Scotland, which was so vittlly connected with the best interests
of the country. The Scotch Members, he trusted, would be
in their places and do heir duty. They ought to take ex
ample from the Members of the Sister country,l who were
always attentive to what
,eatcereed the welfare of 'lreland. If

a single Member would 'stand by him, lie pledged himself to
resist the designed alteration.
Mr. ELLICE augured ill from the circumstances of Scotch
Bankers coming down to the House to request time to meet
their engagements. The English Bankers had preferred no
such petitions. If the measure were a useful one, so far as
)-egardedEngland, he could not conceive why it should not ba
equally beneficial to Scotland. He wished to ask the Right
Hon. • Gentleman opposite, whether it was intended to reduce
the duties on certain dye-stuffs, as had already been promised.
Mr. II USK ISSON said, that the arrangement contemplated
by his Bight Hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
was to afford the silk trade the advantage of such a drawback
as was allowed in the woollen trade. He was at a loss to know
where there was any thing but a nominal duty upon dye stuffs
since last year. 'rile Honourable Member for Aberdeen had
endeavoured to confuse the luminous statement of his Right
Honourable Friend by a certain management of figures ; in-
deed it was possible to prove almost any thing, but he would
undertake to shew the fallacy of the reasoning which had been
put forward. The Honourable Member for Aberdeen was
disposed to be any thing but encouraging when be told the
House, and, of coutse, wished it to be communicated to the
country, that we, now paid more for the charges of Govern-
ment than we did in 1816. Was it possible he could bold such
language when it was clear to every man that, in proportion as
you took off the burdens and restrictions on trade and com-
merce, and increased the means of every man in society, it
must be clear you lightened him of his load ; and even, though
it was equal, you enabled him the better to bear it, more espe-
cially when it was recollected that his Right Honourable
Friend had lowered the duties on Wine one half, and taken
off half the Assessed Taxes. Yet still the Hon. Member for
Aberdeen got up and assured the House they were paying more
now than in the former period alluded to. Certainly this was
neither fairly stating the fact, as between Government and the
public, nor likely to create in the minds of his Majesty's sub-
jects a disposition to support.the financial and commercial mea-
sures of the present improved period with cordiality or confi-
dence; and here before he sat down he must appeal to many
Members who had made representations on the subject of trade,
commerce, and manufactures, and more particularly to the
Hon. Member for Wareham, and the Hon. Baronet, Member
for the Queen's County, whether his Majesty's Ministers had
not on all occasions lent a most willing car, and given the most
patient attention to every suggestion which had been made to
them, as to the repeal or renewal of every restriction, which
they or their constituents believed pressed upon the industry of
those whose interests they represented—(Cries of Hear, hear !)
Mr. MA BERLY in explanation observed, that we had now
in fact no Sinking Fund.
An Hon. M EmnE a, whose name was not known to us,
hoped that neither the Chancellor of the Excheqeer nor his
Majesty's Ministers would attempt to interfere with the currency
of Scotland, which had enabled them'to continue a prosperous
course for nearly a century.
Mr. T. WILSON felt gratified in hearing this evening the
candid, honest, and explicit statement of the Right Hon. the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. He hoped it would go forth cor-
rectly to the public, and have the effect of cheering the hopes,
and exciting the confidence of society at large. This would
not fail to produce the best effect out of doors.. As he had been
amongst the first to. express his dissent from a former resolu-
tion of his Majesty's Ministers, lie felt it equally incumbent on
him on the present occasion, to come forward and give full
credit for their exertions to those to whom credit was due.

Sir CHARLES FORBES deprecated any interference with
the Bank of Scotland, or the suite of the Currency in that •
country.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (in answer to
Mr. HOME) observed, that the Civil List had been on mature
consideration by the Legislature fixed for the life of his present
Majesty, and he had a great doubt on his mind if the House
could, after such a determination of its extent and appropria-
tion, make, during the present reign, any other appropriation or
settlement of it. Whenever the subject of the Civil List was re-
viewed and devised it would be competent to the House to do so,
that could not happen until the demise of the Sovereign.
Mr. HUME considered this appropriation they were now
voting to be an alteration of the appropriation of the Civil
List as settled by law, and of course it would be equally open
to Parliament to investigate and inquire into, abd if necessary
alter the distribution of the Civil List.
The Resolution was agreed to,- and the Chairman reported
the same to the House. Thu Report was ordered to be received
.to-morrow.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.—,PUBLIC BUILDINGS.
Mr. BERRIES moved that a sum of 80,0001. be granted for
the expence of works and repairs upon buildings
Mr. HUME said that he did not quite Understand from what
source the expence of the alterations now going on at Bucking_
Ingham House was to be made: He did not suppose that any
mine had been discovered which was "to furnish die money ; but
no estimate was before the House.

Mr. HEAVIES said, that the charges were to be defrayed,
as the House was aware;from the surplus revenue of the woods
and forests.

Mr. HUME Wished to know what the probable amount of.
the whole expence would be ?
Mr. H ERB lES • was not 'prepared immediately to state the
amount, but the question had been discussed generally in the
last Session.
Mr. HUME said, that the surplus of the woods anti forests
was part of the public revenue—just as much ay the customs'
or excise ; and no part of the public revenue ()tight. to be dbl.
posed of without an estimate laid befoie Parliament. With
reference to the Bill of the last SesSion, lie,certai iy had under.
stood that the House was to be called open to vote the money
required for these alterations from year; to year/ Would there
be any objection to the furnishing an estimate of all the fur-
ther expence which the country was likely to be put to on ac-
count of Buckingham House and Windsor? „
Sir C. LONG said, that such an estimate could he given If
the Hon. Member thought fit to move for it. Certainly, how-
ever, his Hon. Friend (Mr. Berries) had distinctly stated last
year, that the surplus revenue of the woods and forests was to
be applied to the payment of these works.
Mr. ELLICE thought that the House and,. the country
would be much better informed of what was going on, if the
surplus revenue of the woods and forests was regularly brought
to account, and the money for these works regularly voted.
Certainly, in his opinion, estimates ought to be furnished.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, that according to the existing Act
of Parliament, triennial accounts of expenditure must be ren-
dered. As he took it, the whole matter had been for ex-
plained in the discussions of last session. The expence of each
year was not to go beyond the year's surplus on the revenue of
the woods and forests.

Mr. ELlithiditinot think that the Right lion. Gentle-
man perfectly understood his meaning. He wished that this
surplus revenue should be brought to account, and the money
for the works voted, as for any other service. Ile thought that
in this way the subject would be better understood.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT said a few words which were almost
entirely inaudible in the gallery. He stated, that before Easter
he should be able to bring in a Bill with reference to the im-
provements contemVateu at Charing-cross.
Mr. J. MARTIL ailed a question as to the probable ex.
pence of the repairs-which were going at the Custom-house ?
Mr. "[BURIES said it was difficult to say, precisely, what
that expence would be, as a part only was likely to be paid by
Government. Proceedings were pending at law against the
individual who was papposed to have been in fault in that
affair; and in a very ihort time the matter would be brought to
trial.

Mr. BARING was desirous to know also what was doing
at the new Post-office. He thought really that when so many
improvements of importance were going on, some specific and
responsible department ought to be named the direction of
them. As the thing stood, no one knew what was doing while
buildings were in progress; and when they were completed
with some grors error in monstrous deformity, there was no
one to take the blame of it.
Mr. BERRIES said, that the improvements were con-
ducted already, under the direction of the Treasury, by the
Board of Works.

Mr. BUTTERWORTH said a few words, which did not
reach the gallery.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY said, that the expence of the works at
the Cuatom-bouse, and at the new Post-office, was stated to be
payable out of the revenues of those peculiar establishments.
But what was' this but the public revenue ? Crtainly he thought
that estimates ought to be produced.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER nth', that
there could be no difficulty about furnishing estimates if they
were desired. But the tact was, with respect to the Post-office,
that by Act of Parliament the City of London was bound to
contribute a certain sum towards the expence of that building ;
and the whole sum yet made use of had not exceeded that
,amount paid up by the city—to wit, 80,0001. No vote, how-
ever, as regarded Parliament, would be called for to continue
the work ; because there was a specific direction that the charge
should be paid out of the revenues of the establishment.
Mr. BARING thought that it would be far more convenient
if the Board of Works regularly brought in its estimates every
year, and took a vote for the money wanted, in the same way
with other services. The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
the Post-office had not exceeded 80,0001.; he (Mr.
Exchequer must certainly be mistaken when he said that the
eßxarreinnger wasat induced to believe that they had gone further than
three times that amount.
The CHANCELLOR of the:EXCHEQUER said, that
he did not include what had been paid for the purchase of the
grou
Mr. HUME asked whether the repairs at York house were
among those which were to be paid for out of the surplus re.
venue of the woods and forests ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that

Government had nothing to do with them. They were the pria
vate concern of his Royal Highness the Duke of York.
Mr. HUME wished, next Session, by all means to have re-
gular estimates; and that all the public buildings should be
paid for by votes, direct, out of the public money.
Mr. TREMAYNE was of opinion that estimates previous.
to expenditure were likely to be more useful than accounts af-
terwards. As regarded many of the new works projected, this
was almost indispensable.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
with respect to the new streets, in many places buildings were
raised by private persons, who took the ground at their own
risk.
Mr. TREMAYNE had alluded chiefly to the palaces.
The vote was then put and agreed to.
SCOTCH COLLEGES.
Mr. BERRIES moved a grant of 10,0001. for works going
on at the College of Edinburgh.
Mr. HUME said, that he could desire that all the money
voted in this way for Scotland should not be given to one col-
lege. He thought that an inquiry would be of service, to as-
certain the condition of the other Scotch colleges, and to declare
how far they were competent to the objects for which they
were intended. The Act of Union certainly required that five
colleges in Scotland should be kept up ; but that Act was vio-
lated every year, and very properly so, when its violation was
convenient for the public service. Now it was well known that
the colleges of St. Andrew's and Aberdeen had not the means
of supporting themselves, and that to go on existing they
were compelled to have recourse to expedients which would,
render it much more advisable that they should not exist at
all. Upon the subject generally, he would only say farther,
that the Professors of the colleges in Scotland were very anxious
for inquiry, and for such a change as would render those esta-
blishments more respectable, and more widest to the public.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
the case of Abeedeen was under consideration, and thatthe
treasury was expecting farther information upon the subject.
Mr. HU E (as we understood him) was desirous that a"
commission should be appointed.
Sir M. W. lUDLEY said, that whatever offence the Right
Hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer's plans might have given ter
Scotland, here was obviously an opportunity for him to make,
his peace. For himself, however, he confessed that he was not
at all desirous to grant more money to the Scotch Colleges, and
thought that the College of,Edinburgh had already been allowed
ton much.
The next item was 16,7501. for the expences of Port Patrick
Harbour • 9.9801. for expences of Donaghadee Harbour;
43,0001. for the expences of the Royal Harbour of Georgs,the
Fourth at Kingstown (formerly Dunleary). •

BRITISH MUSEUM.
Mr. BUTTERWORTH made some. observation on the
height of the new buildings which was not distinctly beard its
atOthnemßorivtiinshg
Museum,for 25,0001. to defray the expence of buildings
the gallery.
blirieildailnsogstoodikd
that it was not determined where the picture gallery shoidd:
hoSusiresCinWtheNnGeiggahibdouthrhatoodtile.
be fixed. Sir Georgumont had left his whole casette*
to the public, but had not made the situation of the building
in which it was to be deposited any condition.
els
ceived in their present expectations that the whole of the c
Mr. HOBHOUSE hoped that the public would not be de",
lections of every sort and kind were now to be stationed Won'
ing to the very best principles. It was expected, for instance,
that all the treasures would not be deposited m one Place'
where a single accident by fire might sweep them awaY c!'-•
occasion
en
waTethe.
tirely. He hoped that the pictures at least would be brougot
to the west end of the town, and not be placed with the otner
collections in a corner of the metropolis, where they would be,
to all practical purposes, scarcely' approachable.
Sir C. LONG said, that he had no objection to any arrange'
meat which might be generally approved.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT said a few words.
Mr. HUME wished to know how much money it would take
to complete the buildings ? It
Mr. 'BERRIES made some answer, which we were not able
ti
to hear in the gallery.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER took o%
to defend the grant, and applaud the application of it.
said that thesouth front was the most beautiful design of tn_a,
dery architectures—Upon a question from some other quarts
the House, the Right Hon. Gentleman said that he did not,
allude to the squat dumpy pile which now formed the old
front, but the Runt which was to reinstate it, conformably
tete'
the new wings which were building behind,
After some further observations the resolution was es"4--_,etithe
' The next item was 15,0001. for the new buildityar
was 70,0001. WINDSOR
for CAS'.
repars n works It Wl°
Offices of Privy Council, and the Privy Council for Tra°'
The next vote as
Castle.
ar he
li
Mr. HUME again urged the necessity of furnishing
p
rtaEW
meat with proper estimates of the charges incurred, an
money wanted to complete the works. 'Ws!
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
that, the expence had exceeded the estimate considerably
—But, —But' indeed, it was impossible that any corree
could have been formed. The building was do &Ind
removing or touching any part of the wall or ceiling, they
it to be in a much worse state of decay than had been snood n:74
-and the wonder was how they had continued au long;
tsar with
objection to the accounts being produced, tose ner
estimates of the expense of completing the works.
ht, in the
Lord J. RUSSLLI. thought that the flollse
first instance, according to the suggestion of his lion. xtesusss
pros
aut him. to have had clear
tautad satisfiictory estima. s_
exceeding the
duced. Their predictions as e expence
amount first stipulated, had been too faithfully fulfilled:
Sir C. LONG felt quite certain that the expcnces
would not exceed 300,0001., which was the sum first named 11
his Right Hon. Friend. bids
Mr. GEORGE LAMB did-not object to the money w
the
had been thus expended ; and if more were wanted for Let
completion of that royal residence, he would cheerfully vote to
it should be granted.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER continuaa.l.
A purchase had been made of private property to the amount o,
16,000/. to carry on the works. It would be for the pleasure 01
Parliament to say, whether they would continue the improve;
meets which were now prosecuting at Windsor Castle. Crest
advantage would arise to the undertaking by the removal s
several old buildings, which obstructed the works; but
Would depend upon Parliament to grant the necessary funds'
Mr. lIUME considered that for all the use that would be
made of Windsor Castle, it might. have remained as befall;
The country would be drained by those grants. We slip
told that the present works were carried on by the help oiler
celebrated " Godssend," but we ought to wait for Ow.°
such windfal before we consented to such large sums being •
squandered. The country had already been called on to eon;
tribute 2,000,0001. for the erection of public buildings ;
with this enormous sum the Government ought to be co
opten:i
The buildings at Windsor had already cost a prodigios 8"
and he entreated the Right Hen. Gentleman (the Chancellorce,
the Exche9uer) to consider his means for meeting the Well
of the coming year.—'fhe vote war then carried.
A vote of 3,5261. was then proposed for carrllog 00 ecssile
improvements near Westminster Hall ; and after a few "
from Mr. H u ME, it was carried.
eMent
A vote of 11,175/. was next proposed for the inc,„_th to
ef the Holyhead roads, and th ' f 11'""-
ose leading rot
Dublin.
Mr. HUME objected to the vote. ‘e bar-
Colonel TRENCH bore testimony to the utility of the
boil. of flowth and to the severalroadsected wiw
head and Dublin, which were
ow in progress. The.
Sir HENRY PARNELL also api dOf the slan p •
harbour at liowth had been of "'rovethe
infinite service toworks.
interest of this country and of Ireland. It was s ntne 't.
and worthy of the genius of Watt, who e'
I.'
origins „ mop.
After a few observations from Mr. Ilutterwar
Colonel Johnson, and Mr. Hume, the grant was '01"Y".
t
The sum of 50001. was proposed for the impstge-Mee sod,
Menai Straits, and after a few words from 111 r, ram for
Mr. Goulbum, it was carried ;as was el-s 4 the voce
bridge over the river Conway. dto for.
The sum of 7,500/. was then proposed, and agres flings
defraying the expences of printing'the Records of "I"
dons for the present )scar. tai
The sum of 102,01,01. was next voted as the probablee
of providing stationery, printing and binding,
public departments departments of Government for the year 1828.
100
On the vote of 10,1801, for the purpose of forming an
to 20 volumes of the Journals of tlie House of Comnionetnt sD
Mr. HUME apid that he could pot eopsent t° $
enormous for the purpose stated. "Mere we Waal oros
made qp, and that which was props-tied would be Dug 001,re'''
pilation from those: he therefore considered that the at whisk
di
quired was totally
-Wroportioned to the time and /lib°
would be occupied lay composing the general indeX, naeon
Mr. WYNN, begged to assure the Honourable Oeh", prigs
that he laboured under great mistake in saving that tw.a,
posed index would be compiled from others ; Such a step
intended. 'n order
Mr. BERRIES had no objection to grant a return, ! of:
the it`
to satisfy the Host. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) as to
this partieubst vote. he
Mr. BUTTERWORTH said, that the charge orss,,,,se ho
ableisaie were alt the charges connected with the Ll'Zch tter.
bore also testimony to the general correctness with "
business of the several offices was conducted.
sO elwrioot?,l
Mr, T. WILSON thought the stun proposed