The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-03 00:00:00

The Earl of RADNOR denied that the distress which
existed amongst the West India interest had arisen out
of the emancipation of the slaves. Equal distress to that
which existed now had frequently occurred long prior
to the time of emancipation. He said the distress which
the West India interest suffered arose out of the monopoly
which they possessed. He thought it was a great hard-
ship on the West India proprietors that they should not
be allowed to refine their sugar before they sent it to
this country. He would remind their Lordships that
the West Indies could not supply sugar sufficient for the
consumption of this country. In 1801 the importation
of sugar was upwards of four millions of pounds, while in
1844 the amount was not larger. •
Lord BROUGHAM—HaIf of that was for exporta-
tion in 1801.

The Earl of RADNOR—No, it was for home con.
sumption.

The Earl of DALHOUSIE—In 1815 four millions of
pounds were imported, and of that two millions were
taken for exportation, and two millions of pounds more
were consumed last year than in 1815.
The Earl of RADNOR contined. He maintanied that
the existence of the monopoly in favour of the West
Indies had the effect of retarding cultivation and im-
provement. That monopoly took away the incentive to
produce to the fullest extent, because in the years when
the most was produced the value obtained for the sugar
was the least, but in years when little was produced, a
very large value was obtained. This, he contended, was
the mischievous effect of monopoly. To the Bill before
their Lordships he could have no objection, because it
was a step taken in the right direction. It was a step
towards the abolition of differential duties, which were
most injurious in their effects. He had no objection to
give the West India interest protection, provided they
could prove that they were entitled to it ; but he would
never give it them by means of differential duties. He
would rather pay two millions annually than maintain
differential duties in their favour—for differential duties
were only taxes on the pockets of the consumers in this
country.
_ _ _

Earl ST. VINCENT explained.
Lord ASHBURTON said the home consumption of
sugar had doubled since the year 1801, and it was there-
fore necessary that such a Bill as this should pass, both
to secure cheapness of price and a proper return to the
revenue. The supply at present, though large, was not
sufficient for the demand, and it was their duty there-
fore to adopt such measures as would increase the supply
of sugar to the people of this country, to whom sugar
had become an article of necessity.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE thought this mea-
sure partook of many good and sound principles, and he
only regretted that it was not carried further. The prin-
ciple upon which the Bill proceeded was the interest of
the consamer in this country—he whose interests had
too long been neglected. He deprecated the system of
certificates of origin, as he considered it to be useless.
The most powerful Government in the world—that of
Napoleon—had found it so. He calculated that it was
impossible by such means as these to put down slavery,
because those very countries possessing the greatest fa-
cilities for the production of sugar were the countries
where slaves were employed. He hoped, therefore, that
this Bill, was only a step towards further legislation on
the subject.

Lord BROUGHAM explained.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE briefly replied.
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from Pais
ley against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 2.
Upon our re-admission to the gallery after tho cliv
sion, we found

Sir R. PEEL upon his legs, suggesting that Hon.
Members who had motions upon the paper for to-night,
and who had precedence of the Hon. Member for Fins-
bury, should give way, in order to give that Hon. Member
an opportunity of bringing forward his motion on the
subject of the Post-office. Unless the Hon. Gentleman
-w-ho had precedence gave way, it would be impossible
for the Honourable Member to bring on his
motion until a late hour, when it would be
impossible to discuss it fully. Considering the notice
which had been given, and the attention the subject had
attracted, he considered it of great importance that it
should be decided this evening, and he hoped that other
Hon. Members who had notices on the paper would
give way..

Mr. AACKINNON said, that after what had fallen
from the Right Hon. Baronet he should have no objec-
.tion to comply with the wishes of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, and postpone his motion until another oppor-
tunity.

Lord INGESTRE said he had a motion which stood
next. on the paper, and he would follow the example of
the Hon. Member for Lymington, on two conditions,
one of which was, that other gentlemen who had mo-
tions on the paper should do the same, and the next,
that there-should be an understanding that they were
to have precedence on another day in the same order
that they stood at present.
Captain PECHELL hoped that the Noble Lord would
not give up his motion. The claims of the Gallant
Officer (Captain Dickenson) had been before the House
for some years.—(Loud cries of" Order, order.")
Mr. TRELAWNY had a motion on the paper on the
civil disabilities of the Jews; he should consider himself
quite in the hands of Hon. Gentlemen on this side of
the House.—(Cries of " Go on, go on.")
The SPEAKER said, if other Members who had
motions on the paper did not give way, and it was
determined that the orders should be proceeded with,.
the Iron. Member for Lymington would, of course, have
precedence.—(Cries of " Go on, go on.")
Mr. WILLIAMS hoped that the Hon. Member would
persist in his motion.—(Cries of " Order, order.")
Mr. MACKINNON, after some hesitation, said he
would withdraw his motion.
Mr. MONKTON MILNES said he had a motion on
the paper which he considered of great importance,
with respect to the:trial of a Maltese at Tunis for murder,
but lie had too much experience of that House not to
know that it would be useless to press it against the
general wish. Her Majesty's Government had also ex-
pressed a desire for the Hon. Member for Finsbury to
proceed. He should not press his motion ; at the same
time, he could not see why Government were so anxious
for it to come on to-night; but, an anxiety to that
effect having been expressed, he should, of course, give
way.

Sir C. NAPIER hoped the Noble Lord (Ingestre)
would persist in the motion which ho had on the paper.
"Lord INGESTRE was willing to give way, but
hoped he would have some assurance as to the time when
lictebuld bring his motion on again.
811.-- R. PEEL said he was sure Hon. Gentlemen
would see the impossibility of his assigning a Govern •
meat day for these motions. He begged to state that
her Majesty's Government were most anxious to meet
the motion of the Hon. Member for Finsbury, and he
was surprised that impediments seemed to be thrown in
the way by Hon. Gentlemen on the other side, who
seemed to wish to force the other motions forward; but
he hoped, without insisting on any conditions, the Hon.
"Gentlemen would postpone them. He hoped that consi-
derations of justice—considerations of the nature of the
imputation made against the Government, and the im-
pressions produced on the public mind, would induce
Hon. Gentlemen, without making conditions, to allow
the motion 'of the Hon. Member for Finsbury to be
brought forward.
Lord INGESTRE said the Right Hon. Baronet had
somewhat misunderstood him. He did not wish to make
any conditions with the Government—all he wanted was
for 'these motions to be considered as dropped orders
from to-night.

Mr. TRELAWNY, after some short discussion, also
postponed his motion with respect to the laws imposing
civil disabilities on persons professing the Jewish
religion.
POST-OFFICE—OPENING LETTERS.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE then rose to bring forward
the motion of which he had given notice, for
a Select Committee to inquire into the Secret
Department of the Post-office. In bringing the subject
forward, he begged to thank the Hon. Members who had
postponed their motions in order that he might bring his
on.—(Hear, hear.) He begged leave, however, to ob-
serve, that when the House met at four o'clock, he was
totally unable to discover any anxiety on the part of the
Government, or its officials, to make a House in order
to allow him to bring the question forward. At that
hour there was not a single member of the Government
in their places, and it was the Speaker alone that made
the House.—(Hear, hear.) He was glad to learn that
the Right Hon. Baronet was anxious upon this question,
and he hoped that, being so, he would grant the inquiry
which he asked. The Right Hon. Baronet had said that
the public ought to be satisfied. If he was sincere in
that, he(Mr.Duncombe) would tell him that the only way
to satisfy it was to grant his motion. The matter had come
on him rather by surprise; and many Members had left the
House under the supposition th a t the motion would not coma
on before ten o'clock. He (Mr. Duncombe) knew
not how this question was to be treated, whether as a
vote of confidence, or whether the representative system
was to be set aside, and, instead of the question being
treated on its merits, it was to be looked upon as a vote
of confidence. Now, if it was to be looked at in the
latter-point of view, he must confess that that was a
most unconstitutional way of treating it. Gentlemen
might vote for it as a vote of confidence, but if they did
so, he had no hesitation in saying that many Members
would vote a confidence they did not feel. Ile wished
this question to be treated on its own merits. He did
not know whether the parties who complained of the
opening of their letters were to be told that they might
go into a court of law. The answer that had been given
by the Right Honourable Baronet on the subject had
been considered most unworthy of a Minister of the
Crown. How were the public to go to law, he would
ask, with a Minister of the Crown ? It was not Mr.
Mazzini's letters alone that had been opened. He
could show that hundreds of letters had been so
dealt with. Who, he would ask, were to be the wit-
nesses when the parties went to law? Not the Right
Hon. Baronet, or the Postmaster-General, but their
subordinates, and what chance he would ask was there
for the public with such witnesses as those ?—(Bear.)
He (Mr. Duncombe) appealed to the representatives of
the people on this question.—(Hear, hear.) He was de-
termined that it should be tried at the bar of public
opinion—(Hear, hear)—and not in a pettifogging
lawyer's office.—(Great cheering.) A breach of confi-
dence had been perpetrated at the Post-office, under the
authority of the Government. The inquiry he now
asked was into the general system. They had already
gone into the cases of Mr. Mazzini and Captain Stolz-
mann, and he wished now to inquire into the whole
subject, and for that purpose he intended to move for
a Select Committee, to inquire into a department of
her Majesty's General Post-office, commonly called the
Secret or Inner office, the duties and employment of the
persons engaged therein, and the authority under which
the functions of the said office are discharged.
He meant to add these general words to the motion,
and with which he had concluded a former motion on
this subject—" that it be a diateetton to the Committee to
report to the House, whether it is expedient to make