The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-31 00:00:00

SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY MORNING, MAY 31 1645.

sacks of flour and wheat were weekly consumed in Wigan-12,000
or 13,000 tons per year. Got most of the corn from Ireland, from
Drogheda to Lytham, and thence it was brought by the Leeds and
Liverpool line.: The cost of transporting goods by that dila-
tory route of eight or ten days was 19.1. per ton. Sometimes the
transit of goods from Drogheda to Wigan occupied
three weeks. The insurance was about Is. 6d. per

ton. The route by Preston would cost 16s. 10d. ; that by the
Leeds and Liverpool cana' from Liverpool was 14s. 7d. ; and that
by the Liverpool and Manchester Railway was the same. They
could import giods by the Liverpool and Bury line, as projected,
3s, 6d. less per ton than by either of the last-mentioned
modes of conveyance. The carriage by the projected line
would be much more expeditious than by any of the
others. The cost of carting grain and flour from Wigan to Bolton,
was Cs. Gd. per ton. Wigan had considerable natural advantages
over Liverpool in the way of corn-grinding, for the corn which
was ground by engine at Liverpool was done by Wigan coal. If
the projected line were carried out, he thought there would be an
increase of mills there. The present railway communication be-
tween Liverpool and Wigan was subject to considerable delay.
The cost of railway from Wigan to Bolton was Gs. Sd. per ton. If
the line were carried out, traffic would be much extended between
the towns at which it touched. There would be a saving of 4s.
per ton between Wigan arid Bolton by the projected line. There
would be a great saving effected in the importation of Irish produce.
Mr. Ormrod, living between Ilindley and Bolton, miller and
corn merchant—Agreed entirely with the last witness as to the in-
efficiency of the present line of communication between Bolton
and Wigan, and the desirableness of the projected line. At the
Parkside station In Liverpool carts of wheat were so much delayed
there, that the wheat actually sprouted in the sack. The delay in-
volved great loss and inconvenience. The rate of carriage was
aLout being raised on the Liverpool and Manchester line.

Mr. Sergeant BELLASIS cross-examined this witness, who admitted
that there was not at present much trr de between Wigan and

At the close of this cross.examinatiom, the Committee rose, it
being pa►t four o'clock.

Cilt()UP N.

CORNWALL IZAILWAY.

At the sitting of the Committee, the cross-examination of
Captain Moorsom,. by Mr. Rowe, was resumed—He was first exa.
mined with respect to the Falmouth terminus, at Green-bank
Wharf. Steamers came close to the wharf, and goods could be
conveyed to the trains with much facility. That would be a most
convenient part of the town, when the proposed docks were con-
structed. Penryn Creek, where it would be necessary to have
embankments, was about nineteen chains across at high water.
The Learned Counsel said he should put this question to the
witness—What is the length of the viaduct across Penryn Creek?—
when the Committee (who were looking at the map), gave him
their attention.

The CHAIRMAN desired him to proceed.
Mr. ROWE said the question was a most important one, and he
should defer putting it until the Committee had examined the spot
on the map to which his question referred. It was necessary that
he should have their attention.

The CHAIRMAN repeated that he had their attention. Wi.re
they not to refer to the map to form an opinion on matters of im-
portance to the public ?
Mr. ROWE submitted that it would be better to put the
question after the Committee had inspected the map.
The CHAIRMAN again repeated that the Committee were attend-
ing to the examination of the witness. The remark which Mr.
Rowe had made was quite uncalled for. It was not his province
to direct the conduct of the Committee. _ _

-..-- ..... ....,........_ ..._ ____....._____
Colonel ROLLESTON said, if such conduct were repeated, he
should move that they proceed to the consideration of the preamble.
Mr. DENISON said they were the guardians of the public inte-
rests and of the public time, and he should feel it his duty to in-
terfere if so much time was wasted, or if similar conduct was pur-
sued towards them.

The witness then said the viaduct would be 500 feet in length.
He could not say whether the Admiralty had given their assent or
not to the construction of the viaduct. In 1840 he projected a
'me which would have avoided Penryn Creek, but subsequently he
had improved his plan,and had laid the proposed line down as crossing
it. The terminus proposed to be erected on the Mylor side, in the
event of the Admiralty not consenting to the construction of the
viaduct and docks, would run some distance into the creek on
an incline of 1 in 60, and would offer no obstacle to the
shipping, nor would it be liable to produce accidents to those employed
in connexion with it. At Truro River, which they would cross
by a viaduct, taking the average tides, the distance across was 113
yards. He had never seen vessels " beat" up there. The height
of the arch from the clear at high water was seventy feet, and at
low water eighty feet. The river at Lostwithiel would be crossed
by a bridge without arches. It might prevent access to some
small houses in the vicinity, hut if it were found objectionable to
cross the river at that spot they would alter the course of the
line within the limits of deviation, and would not entail
much additional expense, possibly not more than the
crossing of the river as laid down in the plan.
This alteration of the course of the line would cause a radius of
seventeen chains. At Polbathie they would have a drawbridge
three hundred feet in length—the height at high water would be
four feet six inches. Some vessels came up for whitestone, which
would have to be towed or warped. Cheviot and Trevol creeks
would also be crossed by viaducts. At Torpoint they would not
interfere with house property. The distance across the ferry was
about six hundred yards. Vessels in ordinary anchored there.
The ilag-ship of the Admiralty Commissioner laid about a mile
below.

Mr. DENTSON, a member of the Committee, said if the examina-
tion referred to matters on which the Admiralty had to decide, he
should object to the course which Mr. Rowe was pursuing.
Mr. Flown said he proposed to show by the examination of
Captain Moorsom, that the bridge itself and the electrical telegraph
would be exposed to considerable danger, by ships getting their
anehors fouled in the chains of the floating bridge.
The Committee assented, and the examination of Capt. Moorsom,
which the Committee had frequently interrupted, on the ground
that Mr. Rowe was guilty of irregularity with respect to the topics
on which besought to rest his testimony, was resumed. He said, the
present boat (which is a very Ingenious contrivance for the con-
veyance of general traffic across the Hamoaxe, being moved by
chains worked by a windlass) would be sufficient for the
purposes of the railway. Vesels dragging their anchors might
get them fouled in the chains, but he had not heard of any serious
inconvenience resulting from them. The electrical telegraph would
be worked in an iron tube, which would be kept free from damp,
lying at the bottom of the water. The ordinary passage was effected
in six or seven minutes. When they arrived at the opposite
side, the arranging of the carriages would not occupy
snore than a minute. The present boat would hold six
of the Great Western carriages. They would have stronger
chains if it were possible to obtain them. It had
not been finally arranged whether the engine should be shipped or
not, because on so important a point he should not come to a deter-
mination until the very latest moment which might be allowed for
him to do so. It would not take any time to disengage the
engine, as she would sun on while the train advanced.
In 1840 he reported to the Coanty Committee against carrying a
railway across that part of the Hamoase. Since that time he had
had a good deal of experience in that part of the country, and was
now in favour of it. If the South Devon Railway, which

had supported the proposed railway in every way, had not been in
existence, the whole features of the scheme would be changed. The
weight of the rails would be 56Ibs. The witness was then examined
as to the permanent way, the power and cost of the engines, the
electrical telegraph, and engine.houses, which merely bore out the
estimate which he yesterday gave in evidence, and which appeared
at length in the Afternoon Edition of The Sun. There would be
40 engines, at a cast of 2,0001. each, and 40 stations on the line.
With respect to the Bodmin branch, they must construct the line
at the back of Lord Vivian•s mansion at Glyn, at an impracti-
cable expense, and without answering the objects for which the
line was proposed. Other lines must be constructed, but there
were great obstacles to all : in some instances they would have to
make a tunnel beneath the town of Bodmin; other spots would
also present great difficulties, not only with respect to gradients,
but in expense.
The Committee then adjourned until to.morrow.

By Lord Scvmotia—Had slid that railways had not added to the
prosperity of Wakefield ; hid, nevertheless, signed the petition,
although it would be adding in additional line to Wakefield. His
reason for doing so was the communication which it would open
with the south.
Mr. T. Binney, corn-fa:tor, Wakefield, examined by Mr.
KNowtes— Was well acquainted with the corn trade between
Goole and Wakefield and Goole and Leeds. Agreed with the last
witness in every particular. Did not consider that any advantage
would be gained in point o: time by the rail. Increased rapidity
would not be at all times an advantage to corn-factors.—(A laugh.)
Cross-examined by Mr. lostE—There was a great many malt
kilns at present unoccupied in Wakefield. Did not know the num-
ber. Did not know what quautiiy of wheat was malted weekly at
Pontefract. Did not hear that there was any very great quantity
of corn pilfered while on the canal. It would be more profitable
to ship corn to Goole in a large vessel than in a smaller
one, but he would take care lest these large vessels should strike
on the Whitton Sands. The rate of insurance on large vessels
in this trade was less than on small ones.
By Mr. KNOWLES.—The small vessels could go up to Castleford,
and were on that account preferable to the large ones.
By Lord SEYMOUR. —Sent corn at present from Wakefield to
Manchester by rail.
By the CHAIRMAN—Sent a larger quantity by the rail than by
canal.
Sir John Simpson, examined by Mr. KNOWLES—Lived at York.
Was a director of the York and North Midland line. Was ex.
tensively engaged in the coasting and house trade in corn. Was
well acquainted with the 'water communication between Goole
and Wakefield, and the line of the projected railway.
For bulky articles the water conveyance was, in his
opinion, better than the rail, but for small articles it was
not so good. He considered that corn was one of the former
articles, and he would prefer to send it by canal. The advantage
by this means was obtained of seeing the corn in bulk, which was
not the case by rail. If the railway was resorted to for the con.
veyance of corn the market would be entirely removed from
Wakefield to Goole. The canal he considered a cheaper mode of

conveyance The cost of wheat at present from Goole to Wake.
field by canal was, including charges, about 13d. per quarter.
Cross examined by Mr. KNOWLES—BuIky goods were at pre-
sent carried on the canal at Id. a ton or somewhat less. Sent his
flour to Manchester and other places by rail. There was not more li
than one fifth of the business managed.by rail. Was a large ovrner
of vessels, and was building more to accommodate the increased
traffic. From York to Manchester the cost of flour by rail was 12s.
per ton.
By the CIIAIRMAN—The comparative difference of freight and
insurance betwee❑ Yarmouth and Goole and Yarmouth and Hull
was very trifling—about Id. or 2d. a quarter on freight, and as Ad.
to Id. on insurance only on Scotch vessels.
By Mr. Hoyt—The tonnage of the largest vessels that come
up to York was about 80 tons; vessels of 200 tons could come
up to Selby, passing the dangers of the Goole navigation; and eaw a
vessel there above 200 tons register.
By Mr. BLISS, on the part of the landowners--York was not
principally supplied with coals from the West Riding. The time
now occupied in going from Selby to Leeds was from an hour to
an hour and a quarter, and the cost was 3s. The time table of the
Selby and Leeds, before they leased the line, was an hour, but this
was not regularly accomplished—he had been himself often dia.
appointed.
By Mr. KNOWLES—From York to Leeds the time now occupied
was an hour and a quarter. The fare of the first-class was 2d.
per mile, and on the Selby and Leeds about the same. Their
third-class carriages were very commodious and covered in.
When he said that Goole could not compete with Hull, it was
only with reference to vessels of a large size. It would be an in-
ducement for vessels to come to Goole that they could have a cargo
of coals back.
Mr. Edward Ellice examined by Mr. PICKERING—Lived at
Leicester; was an agent there for the:stleof lime. In 1840 the
amount sold was 5.082 tons. The greater part of this was used fur

agricultural purposes. The Crich lime was used almost entirely
for these purposes. The price at the works was Gs. to Gs. 6d. per
ton. The present rate paid per railway from Crich to Penistone
was Id. per tan per mile.
Cross-examined by Mr. Holm—The Crich was a mountain lime,
the other lime referred to was a magnesisn lime. Sold it to
farmers.

Edward Ward, Esq., examined by Mr. KNOWLES— Was a ma-
gistrate, residing near Selby. Had an extensive coal property.
Very few ships get to Selby, as compared with Goole, in con.
sequence of the difficulty of the navigation. Shipped 38,500 tons of
coals during the last five years, and was convinced if he had had the
advantages of the rail, he could have shipped a great deal more.
The Leeds and Selby Railway passed for eight miles over a bed of

coals. The price of the best quality of coals at the pit's mouth was
ss. sd. per ton, and if the railway were made, the prier of coals at
Goole would be the same as at York. Could not send the coals

to Hull, as there was no dock communication there with the
Humber. The charge from all the pits to York was ?,d. per ton.
The proposed Wakefield and Goole line would be of no use what.
ever to the coal-pits about Selby and that district. Had lime
quarries in that neighbourhood also; sold lime at the works f•r
7s. per ton.
Cross-examined by Mr. WILKINS—Sent more building lime at

present to Manchester than agricultural. The London and York
line and two other proposed lines (if any one of them were carried)
would by a junction with the Wakefield, Pontefract, and Goole
lines, give all the facilities of conveyance which the proposed
Brayton and Goole line promised.
Cross.examined by Mr. BLlss—Could not say how long it would
take to work out his pits. He could Rot say whether they would
be done in a year. Sold his coals at Selby for 7s. 2d., and at York
at 6s. Sd. There was no important town on the proposed line—it
passed through an agricultural country which was not very denaely
populated. Knew the Hon. Mr. Petre's estate. The Leeds and
Selby and four other projected railways were to go through it, and
would completely cut it up. The proposed line was one of them.
Mr. Michael Bentley, examined by Mr. PiesEarNo Was a lime

burner. Had nine vessels employed with Goole in the coasting
trade. Was acquainted with the projected Wakefield, Pontefract,
and Goole line. It would not benefit Knottingley. Lime could be
sent at present for Is. 6d. per ton by canal between Knottingley
and Goole. Water was a much preferable mode of conveyance to
rail. The dues in Selby canal were about 15s. for a cargo of 50 or

60 tons, and the cost altogether to Goole would be about I 6s. Wet
injured lime very much. A great quantity of this lime went east.
ward to Lincolnshire, &c., for agricultural purposes.
The Speaker having been announced to be at prayers, the Com-
mittee then adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

at Digswell, 1,047 yards; sthe ninth and tenth were 1
short ones at Sandy, 44 miles on the line; the eleventh at
Great Ponton, 1,352 yards; the twelfth and thirteenth at Little
Ponton, one of 3uo and one of 305 yards ; and the fourteenth at
Gormsby of 968 yards ; making a total of 8,266 yards, or five
miles of tunnelling. There was no tunnelling at the loup or at
Bedford, Stamford, or Wakefield. There would be two tunnels at
Sheffield, one of 1,245, and one of 1,980 yards. The ruling
gradient was one in 200, and that was not exceeded on any part of
the line, except at King's-cross, where it was 1 in 108. The curves
were few on the main line, and of a mild radius; there was one at
the York station, and the others were few and small. The expenses
of the main line would be as follow :
Fencing
Earth and Works.
Tunnels
Bridges, Culverts, and V iaducts

£449,920
... 735,840
603,365
492,883

Total
Contingencies at ten per cent 187,992
Permanent Ways and Ballasting, &c., which included
Sleepers, Chairs, Leveling:, &c..
Stations OlO,OOO

Making a Total without Land .
Land and Compensation (which I learnt only from
agents and others)

596,986

Grand Total for the London and York line... £4,144,986
THE LOUP.

Fencing
Earth and Works
Bridges, Viaducts, &c

Total
Contingencies

£17,920
176,690
137,930

332,942
33,257

Total for Levels, &c 365,800
Permanent Ways. ,616,000
Station .

Total for Works
Land Compensation .

931,600
117,680

Grand Total.

1,049,480

SHEFFIELD BRANCH.

Fencing
Earth and Works
Tunnels
Bridges, Viaducts, &c.

£6,720
149,102
193,500
106,702

Total. ....
Contingencies

45(1,024
45,576

Total for formation 501,600
Permanent Ways, &c 126,000
Station , 7,000

Total for works
Land Compensation

694,425
WAKEFIELD BRANCH.

Grand total..

Fencing
Earth and Works
Bridges, Viaducts, kc

Total .
Contingencies ....

168,441
16,949

Grand total 185,290
Permanent Ways, &c.
Station
Works
Land Compensation

Grand total
BEDFORD STATION

Fencing
Earth and Works
Bridges, Viaducts, &c.
Contingencies

Total
Permanent Ways
Station

341,913

Works
Land compensation......... .............

2,720
.... ... 18,467
13,044
3,423

37,654
30,000
4,000

71,654
15,330
.. ...... •••-•••

Grand total ... 158,635
STAMFORD BRANCH.

Fencing ..
Earth anti Works
Bridges, Viaducts, &c.

For Works, total
Contingencies ...

1,520
8,572
10,886

Total
Permanent Ways
Station

20,978
2,092

23,070
18,000
4,000

Tqtal
Land and Compensation... ....... . 11 ,868

56,983

Grand total... ........
Making a grand total for the whole of the
six branches, the tributaries, and the loup,
distance 328 miles, of
Witness believed this sum would be sufficient to cover all expenses,
including incidental. It was the highest rate of charges upon any
line that he was aware of. With regard to the station at King's_
cross, the passenger station there would occupy ten acres of
ground, and the depot for coals, goods, &c., about forty.nine
acres; the stations would be placed at opposite sides of the Re-
gent', Canal; that station would cost about 50,0001. or 60,000/. ;
he had allowed 150,0001. for it, including the land. plant, &c.
The York station would be entered at the south side of the old
wall of the city, by the gaol. and the Trinity.gardens; it would be
small as compared with the London station, and would cost about
50,0001.; it would cross the York and North Midland ticket
stage. Supposing that the land was obtained, and all the usual
difficulties removed, and in fact that those employed to make the
road had their own way—(Laughter)—he should say that the
I whole line would be complete in three years. _

In answer to some questions- in cross-examination from Mr.
TALBOT, the witness said his estimate did not include the Parlia-
mentary expenses.—(Laughter.) The expenses for locomotive plan,
such as carriages, plant, &c., he supposed would be about 3,0001.
per mile, or about one million more in addition to the six millions
and a half. This was a very expensive line certainly ; the cost per
mile for the first 20 miles from London would be about 38,000/.
per mile, or 36,0001. per mile for the first 30 miles. Had often
heard of contractors being obliged to exceed their contracts. Had
heard of an estimate of 1,400,0001. for a Seuth.Western line, and
it cost 2,306,0001.
The Committee adjourned at half-past four o'clock.