The Sun.
London, England, 1844-05-11 00:00:00

was against Switzerland ; yet, despite that disadvantage,
Switzerland was able to maintain a successful competi-
tion with us. And why was it so ? Because Switzer-
land required to consume a certain amount of foreign
produce, and it was found that the cheapest way in
which she could pay for that was by her manufactures.
Though the disadvantages of her situation told greatly
against her, thouuh she made on the whole scarce a fair
return for her industry, still she was able to carry on a
trade which supplied the wants of her population by the
exchange of her manufactures for foreign goods. And
why was that ? It was because she had not imposed re-
strictions on the freedom of commerce.—(Hear, hear.)

There was a still stronger case. The Right Hon. Baronet
had stated that the United States of America were
driving us out of many neutral markets. He (Lord II.)
believed that to be so. He believed that the manufac-

turers of the bnitedSt;ies;;;;tccessfully competing
with us in many of the third markets of the world.
How did they account for that on their principle that
whatever rendered manufactures dearer rendered all

competition impossible ? It was notorious that the rate
of wages was higher in the United States than
in this country. But he denied that the
price of the raw material was dearer here than

it was in America, because a bale of cotton in
bond in Liverpool imported from New Orleans was, if
anything, cheaper than a bale of cotton in bond at Mas-
sachusetts imported from the same place. The expense
of the conveyance from New Orleans to Liverpool was
not greater—(Cries of " Less, less")—than from New
Orleans to Massachusetts. It was not, therefore, the
price of the raw produce which enabled the manufac-
turers of the United States to maintain a competition
with us. Then, what was that that upon their prin-
ciple of the impossibility of raising prices or wages when
there was foreign competition—what was that that
enabled the North American manufacturer to successfully
compete with us ? He had seen a trade circular from
China the other day, stating the great amount of North
American manufactures that was imported into that
country ; and he must say, that the trade circular stated
the reason of that fact to be, as he believed it, that in the

worth American United States no duty at all was levied
upon tea, and, consequently, tea was very rapidly rising
in consumption in that country, and the North Ameri-
can manufacturer produced those goods for the purpose
of paying for that tea which they required for their
countrymen. If they calculated the expense of the Ame-
rican manufacturer in money, and of the Manchester ma-
facturer in money, on the spot, it would be found, no doubt;
that the Manchester manufacturer could produce a yard of
cotton cheaper than the American, but yet that did not
enable him successfully to compete with the American,
because the latter had the advantage in the return
cargo. That supported his principle that their competi-
tion with foreign countries was not a matter of such
formidable danger. He was persuaded that, with re-
spect to China, they must put an end to competition
with America. If they received the corn of America
into this country, it would be a cheaper mode for the
American to buy tea, to send corn here, and purchase
manufactures with the price thereof, and then send out
those manufactures to China; but we, by our laws,
would not allow that to take place, and, con-
trary to what nature really intended, viz., that a
fully peopled country should be a manufacturing
country, and that a half-settled country should he an
agricultural country, we compelled the American mer-
chant to pay for the tea which he required for consump-
tion, not by British but by American manufactures.
He was perfectly sensible how imperfectly he had been
able to state those views to the House, but he knew how
difficult it was, upon what was, after all, rather a ques-
tion of abstract political economy, to argue in an assem-
bly like that. But unfortunately- it was those doctrines
which were at the bottom of the question ; and, there-
fore, it was not in his power to avoid going into them.
The argument that foreign competition would ruin their
trade was totally visionary, and equally visionary was
the great fall of wages which they anticipated would be
the imaginary ruin of their manufactures. All that
would really happen was that they would, to a
certain degree, diminish the productive powers of
this country--(Hear, hear)—and that the burden would
be thrown not on one particular class, but upon the
whole country. First, by the slightly increased cost of
the manufactures required for the home market. Of
course if manufacturing labour was less productive than
hitherto, there would be somewhat of a diminution in
the abundance of the supply for the home market, and
the cost would be thereby increased. But that would be
only for a short extent of time, for they all knew, so great
was the progress of improvement in machinery, that there
was no question ten hours' labour per day would produce
a larger amount of goods for home consumption than
twelve hours would a few years previously. The inter-
ests of the working classes were deeply involved in the
question, and he would recommend the House to adopt
that compromise of an Eleven Hours' Bill to which the
House had pledged itself on a former occasion.
He owned that that did appear to him to be so hazardous
an experiment upon the temper and minds of the popu-
lation in the manufacturing districts, that even if he bad
on previous occasions voted against his Noble Friend,
he would hesitate much before he repeated that vote,
he would shrink from being a party to altering the deci-
sion to which they had already come. If injurious con-
sequences followed, the exclusive responsibility would rest
with her Majesty's Government. He hoped and trusted
that the working classes NN ould petition. They might
be certain that though what they desired was postponed,
it was virtually carried.—(Hear, hear, from Mr. Ferrand.)
He said again it was virtually carried. He believed
they would not find in the whole course of Par-
liamentary history, any question in which the great
body of the people took so deep an interest—(Hear)—
which was not ultimately brought to a successful issue.
—(Cheers.) He knew not how long the struggle might
be prolonged, but of its ultimate issue he entertained
not the slightest doubt. He could not help asking even
her Majesty's Government whether they themselves
were not in their hearts persuaded that it could only
terminate in one manner, and, if so, he asked them was
it well that the struggle should continue ?—(Cheers.)
Mr. LIDDELL said he could not help thinking that
the Noble Lord had somewhat perplexed his own argu-
ment by the manner in which he had treated the subject
of foreign trade.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had
diverged into the subject of protective duties. He con-
ceived that the corn-laws did not necessarily enter into
this question. If those laws were to be justified at all,
they were to be justified on grounds altogether inde-
pendent of a Ten Hours' Bill. Never, since he had
had a seat in Parliament, had he felt so much difficulty
in reconciling his feelings and his judgment as in refe-
rence to that question. His feelings went entirely along
with the Noble Lord, whereas, after the most deliberate
and careful consideration, he felt himself compelled to
vote with her Majesty's Government.—(Hear, hear.)
There was nothing novel, indeed, in the principle of the
Noble Lord's proposal. In the case of agricultural labour.
they had practically ten hours' daily work. In the case
of bricklayers, woodcutters, and others, the hours of
labour were from sunrise to sunset—from six in the
morning till six in the evening, with two hours respite
from toil—(Hear, hear) and if ten hours were
enough for them, with the fresh breath of Heaven
blowing upon them, it was certainly enough for
those who were employed in factories. Now ho
did not consider her Majesty's Government had
acted on that occasion with their usual discretion and
foresight.—(Hear, hear.) He must say that if the Go-
vernment were prepared originally to take their stand
on this great question, if they were determined to come
to no compromise whatever, notwithstanding the deci-
sion of that House, they ought at least to have stated
their opinions, in order that their intentions might have
been evident to their supporters and friends in that
House.—(Laughter.) By not having done so the Go-
vernment had been exposed to considerable perplexity.
—(Great laughter.) He said, from his own knowledge,
that there were many Hon. Gentlemen who, if it had
been known that such importance was attached
to the ten hours' clause, would not have
voted with the Noble Lord without closely examining
all the arguments, and they might then have come to a
different conclesion.—(Great laughter.) It was perfectly
true that the reasoning which applied to this subject was
not obvious on the surface. One feeling was obvious ;
but a little previous reflection, and more consideration of
the subject, might have induced many to abstain from
giving a vote which, when once given, it was very diffi-
cult to retract.— (llear.) But though he did not ap-
prove of the course pursued by the Right Hon. Baronet
(Sir J. Graham), he gave him full credit for honesty
and sincerity of purpose. The Noble Lord (Lord llowick)
stated that this was not a question which, however it
might be decided, would call for the resignation of the
Government. Had the Noble Lord thoroughly consi-
dered the provisions of this Bill ?—(Hear, hear.) Did
he not know that it was a question affecting a
vast deal of property, and vast masses of the community,
and that the Government had had previous conference
with the parties immediately concerned ?—(Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Baronet felt himself bound to adhere to
the provisions of his own Bill ; and he was not sur-
prised, therefore, at his suggestion, that rather than be
guilty of any dishonourable compromise he wonld retire
into private life. He felt entire confidence in the goode
intentions of the Government. 'What possible
din the
induce-
ment, ment, except a sense of duty, could possibly
induce
d lt
Government to take the course they had one
could not be a wish to please the Crown ; for no_o ne
in-
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eoru
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e-
could innot Pbe influenced
(Hear.) Lastly, they i by the
toweprleeaspelathceedir
desire of truckling to their opponents ; for in that case
they would have pursued a different course. One cause
alone could have induced the Government to pursue the
course which they were then pursuing, namely, a strict
sense of duty, a thorough consciousness of the responsi-
bility
any
compromisechrested f
tuponhitFsoogrtrhtethoahestemesciec,ul
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of her
d
Majesty'se
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Government.
(Sir
J.
t Hon.
Graham) had charged the Noble Lord (Lord Ashley)
with changing his tactics on that occasion, because he
had taken up the commercial view of the
question. Now he contended that the position
of the Noble Lord's opponents had undergone a
manifest revolution.—(Hear, hear.) It was the principle
of the Noble Lord's proposal which had been discussed
on former occasions by those who were opposed to it.—
(Hear.) He appealed to Hon. Gentlemen whether that
was not the case ; and whether they had now des
sorted the position which they then assumed.—(Hear.)
He would be the last man to refer to former debates ;
but he could not help saying, that he had regretted
not having the opportunity of rising on an occasion
when the First Minister of the Crown delivered some
very excellent sentiments, not only couched in eloquent
language, but marked by good taste, sound sense, and
right feeling, in reference to the necessity of providing
not merely education' but healthful means of recrea-
tion and amusement for their poorer fellow-subjects.
He would ask the Right Hon. Baronet, and those wha
supported him in that view, bow those were to b 51140 re-