The Sun.
London, England, 1810-02-20 00:00:00

COURT OF ADt:IRALTY.

Lord COCHRANE, in rising to make his promised
Motion respecting the condud of priie cartes, &e.
• declared that if the question had concerued the Navy
alotie, he should nor have obtruded 'himself on she
atti.3tiOltl of the House; partly lest he should have
beeu supposed to be intereste,J, and partly because
. he felt himself inadequate to ;he task; but so deeply
iovolved were the interesets of the country at large
in the subjet-1, that every other consideration gave
way in his mind to a sen-e of public duty. Should
the House grant him the papers for which ho was
about to move, he would prtove the existence of an
Unparalleled system of abuse, of which the country
was by no means aware, and which exceeded even,
the corruption which -prevailed. in Spain under the
. Prince of Peace. In every respell the Manegement
of the business of a Court of Admirelty wesin-
s jitrious to the country, and ,he'svas satiAieil; that if
the abuses of that Court were abolished, the naval
• service of the country could be carried on at less:
!hail half the expence at' which it was at present.
liistaricestsfunjuseliaVe compromise hod frequently.
-essie rred, as a proof of which he -conk! state, that
ttflriy-two thou-and pounds had been;giveil op for
t 02.31. to a person in Liverpool. • Antttliee abuse
was the compulsion, in frequent instances, of cap-
t eset to pay in that Court Ennis greater than the pro-
ceeds
.Ot their prizes. :These were charges that
Blight be denied, but could riot be refuted/The em-
ployment also of the King's Proctor alone in prize
causes was highly ebjectionsble. Was it oo beto-
lerated that the whole Navy of England should be
compelled to commit their interests;' to the !ransge-
- ment of one individual, whether ortiot.they.confided
in- his talents and integrity's..? What would Gentle-
alien think if they were obliged in their legal affain
all to employ one attorney in the inter6t probably
of their opponents ? ,This, priadice, was consonant
neither to law, to jUstice,• to equity, nor to good
sense. The personal liberty of captors was frequent.-
lpendangered in cases of conclemoation.. The in-
terest o the Crown, and that of the captors we re
frequ,Jutly at valiance; and the ,CotlevenceS had
been repeatedly exhibited. If these. papers Were al-
loWed to be pioduced, he should move fur others of
st:11 greater importance, and teuding turther.to lelu-
cidJtethe subject. He pledged his bortour to prove„
'that the abuses in the Admiralty Court had paralyzed
the whole-system of the ;3titish Navy. Tbe con-
detonation ofsrnall, vessels was rendered es expen-
sive.as that of large ones, and the result of captures
of that description was merely to put money into.
the Proaor's pocket, or into the pocket
.of she
Ridge by whom the Aas of Parliarriept had been,di-
realy,violated. If a proper encouragement were
' g.iven-to the navy, by a reformation of these abuses,
let) sail of the line would not be necessary, as they
now were, to block up 40 or SO sail of the enemy ;
but sotnestinjulus.soas indispensable to the exertions
of our naval officers ; be did not wish that their pay
s onld be increased, but be wished that they should
be secured in tie possession of that which was their
joct right. He hadhimsell repeatedly experienced
.toe injustice of tie Admiralty and Vice-Admiralty
Coults._ Theresultot a capture which he had made
of thirteen vessels laden with
.provisions for Barce-
lona was, that he was obliged to put his hand in his
pocket to pay the Judge'..oi the Vice-Court -of Asl-
rniraty at Malta. The whole system, ,he said, .of
t • ese Courts was mo-lt abominable, and a complete
h twbug upon the navy and the country.. In one .
stance in his. experience, the captaireof esen of
‘star got five shillings and sevenpeoce le.sseenny for,
his entire of that froth which the Court ,of Adtui7
ralty-obtained the siim, of 3rst. ,17s. ,He then ad-.
versed :to the abuses in the granting of licenses for
foreign trade; and declared his opinion that the
eornriierce in foreign bettorus w in '_the
Thanes, exceeded the whole ,of our own foe_
reign commerce. By these means: great injurytras
done to the trade of the country, and a nursery, was
created for e'iteene, ivho *cold ultimately serve to
Irish C!e fleets of 1" ranee. Af‘e ai ologising lot the
u.scoone.eted manner in
.whicli he km id submitted to
toe House these statements, which; be.attrinoted to
hit having.been 'all his life empleyed its occupations
ofa very different nature, his Lordship coneluded by
Moving for 'Pspers, the first of Inert
were " (':pies from the li.e,:eister.nt the High Court
of
.A.Hentraityeof t Accounts tot- Gie Am- -
priiori, iis'rea, Werrior, DOiphin, Euterprize, Gus.
-neral,
Clearly to rutcleneind whstlier
t'.e Noble Lcrd eleatit merely the sleents' Aceouttts
for aboternentioned ut,siek.
Lor.l-Coctift_ANK reetied in the ailirnett;ee.

Scorr.a,led he Court of Admiralty
could possibly 'be ansA'crable for such
.ac,founti
this Sgcnts ? And yet such hild been 4 hi...groom] on
the Noble' Lord founded all his invettiie.
The NoWe, Lord wa'S a pren-iiit accuser. He had
:been, an accuser of individuak, and an accuser of
Courts of ins-ice, Fk 11:A b,eu an unfortunate
:.accuser ; and he (Sir NV. Scott) pjedgcJ himself, by
-a.„) the credit which he
.might have obtained during
the many yeius that he had sat in that House, .hat
-trie Noble Lord wodld prove as witoftuoate in this
accusation any preceding one.

Mr. ItosEtvtalki icsure the Noble bird And the

House, that outudn was inore disposed the 13 himself to
agree to the I;rodu6tion of auy plperi by which the
Ulterests of the Navy might be bk-nctited. -He was
satisfied, hoWever, that when the papers moved for
were produced, the conduct oft he High Court of Ad-
iiiiralty wear& be found niot unobjectionable. The
Noble Lord had poured out a t.irrent of abuse

most inip:ccedentt.-t1 on a motion for 'papers only,
and before the House had the &curium's before
, This was a sut;jea hich he had investi-
erued with a 'cart and attention for wh'ich be sup-
, • i,0,Z4 the Noble Lord nc.u!d not give him. credit.
. 4ie hid :bestowed upon it many days and many
nights, and he was cOnvonced that il.the Noble Lord
were to suc'ceed in throviiug abroad into other hands

the business which was LlONVCOhfiiled co the Kite's
PrOCiOs'beVotild -extremely injure the in.erests of
the Navy, depreciate the character of the couidry,
oneeesiarily annoy the neutral trsder, . and. 'Very,
muoli embarass the British
.merchant.-, defied
the-Nobre Lord to find a single instance hi which die
charges made by .the King's Piocior were higlier_
than those which would have been m:ide -by. any
other Protior in Doctors', Commons. A, to the
ticaolints; it CettainlY did hipper), that-at-Tr
th.se accounts were made up, Naval Officers sel-
dom took any trouble to examine them. Soon.
atter hu became Treasurer of the :Navy, it had

laeen represented to him that many abuses exist-
ed in this respect. He 'had consequently inquired
into the subject, and hid had no legs than 153 of
these cases before him, nine of which were now be-
fore the Judge of the High Court of Admiralty, in
cons..-4quence of the enormOus char#s which the ac-
counts contained. In one casek;the‘charges of an•
Agent at Portimouth, who had 62,001)1. to distribute,
amounted CO 9,4621. of which sum i,2001. Was stated
to be for postage! In another instance, t had
been charged. by an agent where riot a shilling had
been paid. Large sums toe'Were kept in hand by these
agents for many years, the accumulated interest of
which was lost !o the rightful owners. Feeling sen-
sibly that-the Navy suffered deeply for want of sonic-
body to look to their interests, he had after the last
' Session of:Parliament proposed thit a person should
be appointed for that purpose. He did not wish that
a pl:lce should be created, but-a Gentleman who had
made the business his study having written to him,
and having been very respe.etably recommended, par,
t icolarly by two Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side
of the House, he had accepted that Gentleman's ser-
Viet" 3, and he vas now going through the cases in the
: most satisfactory manner. •With respect co the sea-
men, he (Mr:; Rose) -had completely succeeded in
getting justice secured to theta: : Since the,Act of the
. last Session only °tie' complaint had been Made to him
• by a sailor of his having been cheated by his agent.
A,.suit was in cousequence-instituted against the
agent, and out of the penalty the'sarlor had got his
money. -In the investigation of the cases to which he
alluded although • there )vere many exceptionable
charges, the law charges were lower than those of
• the proetors employed•by privateers. He had read
a pamphlet. on : the subject of the Noble. Lord's
speech, and he declared,, that after making all pas-
: sible inquiry, he was satisfied that not a single state-
ment in that pamphlet was founded in truth; He
regretted that the N6l/16 Lord, instead of making a
desultory complaint of abuse, had nut put his linger
on a single case whete lie would have found him
(Mr. R.) as ready as. himself to bring it under the
tconsideration of the Hetise.

Mr. C. DUNDAS bore' testimony to the chara&er
of the Gentleman appdinted by Mr. Rose to assist
• in the- investigation of the cases alluded to.
Mr..STEPHeN would not vie with the N,lale Lord
in the use of harsh epithets, but he must protest
against the practice on a motion for the. prodndion
of Papers of entering into as direr and 'personal
a crimination of the individuals cOncert ed, as if the
House had detertnined on their impeachtnent.
knew not for what purpose the Noble Lird bad' on
his occasion entered into details', except for the pur-
pose of throwiOcr groundless aspersions on some of
the most respectable and honourable persons in the
country. The papers for which the Noble Lord
had moved were most voluminaus. 'The _Noble
Lord had allowed that he had hot examined them,
and yet be built on- them* an accwation against
the officers of ,the High Court of Admiralty of
corruption, and a sacrifice of the interests of the
navy. Thu Tapers., he said were to be produced
just to give a chance that there' Might by extreme
possibility be soolething in them ta justify the ac-
cusation. He (Mr. Stephen) woad not affront
the high characters so wantonly.caltunniated—eha-
racters respelled, not only by this county alone, but
bythe,, world, for their talents and inte-
grity—lie -would not .affrotit. such char.:Cters 'by be,
coming their apologist. :The Noble Lord, was a
distirwuished ornament of his proleSsiph ; for his
part, he confessed that. he wou4i.tatber hear of him
than hear him, and that he would lather read. a re-
-port-Obis actions in his Commander's letteis•in the
Gazette than a 'report of his
,speeclies
,in the House
of Commons or elsewhete in thecotumni of a news-
' paper, Much-as the Noble Lord linowof the flavY,
he could 4iO4fielleVe Litat khe NObloLord appreciated
the cha;a6ter, of th:it cjaSs'ot *weii so
even as he hitoself, when he declared that if ii.e kts
of t by Court of Admiralty were
Bred sail of .t he 'line now emiiloyed
duced to forty,. or when he. iutimat, d ihati they
require a any other s.tirnatts than thew
sense or, public duly. Ad% ening te)
by the, Noble Lord upon a tkiiined Friend of tits, who
was Judge of the Vice Court of Admiralty,-at Malta,
he de!ended -the.. Conduct of h:s: Learoed
wfiich• he contended was as free how' blame •as toat.
of the other high 'and rcvectatile :characters- who.
had incuited the_ censure 'at the Nonle LOrd.

•
Sir C. POLE thought the capiors ought not. to be
cc-impelled:to pay 3Q per cent, for the condemnation
of prizes. This hoWever was the state of the case.
When au Officer objected to it, he wins told, that if
he did nut- consent, the pr.ze Would hc condeinned.
as a (holt to the •Ci own. • When ,such charges went
abroad,- it was obvious they must have a bad effect
on our navy, and he would therefore a;k the House
if if were not necessary that the subject should be
looked into, the papers produced, anu thecalmanies
(if such they were) refuted ? Thee was a case,
:which .must be fresh in the memory :?t. every one,
where a'number of vessels being detained, the cap
for applied to a Proctor, fur the purpose of engaging
ili(11 to prove the calyored vessels to be the property,
of the enemy. In a few days a. war broke out be-
tween that Power under whose colours they ap-
peared, and within the space of threedays no less
than 200 vessels, thus detained, were, condemned
to the king.,' He concluded, expressing his disappro-
bation of having but one Proaor to apirly to in such
.-cases. •

Mr. ROSE had a propositiOh to make.' Though
he objected to the production of 'the pipers relating
to the whole of the ships named in au 'potion, if
the Noble Lord would move for tho.e relating to
any, one of them, he should
•have no -objeClion to
the motion, and he . thought to bring forward a„ny
one case would he quite ,as fair, but less incpnye- •
nience than the whole. f
Sir JOHN NICHO' LS defended the condu& of the
Court of Adm ralty, and said that the. Advocates in
that Court were not higher paid than in the other
Courts, and that the King's Prodor did not charge
more than any other Proctor. It had been 'stated
-in the newspapers, that the rerrioluments of 'the
King's Advocate were from ,25,0001. to. 30,0001. a
year. Now the fa& was, that they dd not exceed
70001. a year on the average, and that was not till
on account of the Navy. As to the giving 301. per
cent..on the proceeds o; a captured convoy to an in-
dividu.ll, it was 'far the benefit of the captors, as it
was paid by agreer.ient for information, without
which they wbuld.not have been entitled to a Will,
ling. The case was this :—ln 1803 a convoy of.

vesseß, laden wi'h masts and shiti-timber„vns
tured on its passage from Vigo to Embden, which
were both of thettt neutral ports. There was every
reason to sap; use that-it was- enemy's property,
though by the documents it appeared to be Prosslan
property. While.the matter was under inves,iga-
tion, a war with, Prussia broke alit. 'The. vessels
would have gone to the Cro n, as Malts of the
Admiralty, if that individual had not given such in--
I)rmation as satisfied the Court_ and the Govern-.
went, that the convey, although appearing by the
documents to be Prthsian property, was,in reality
French property. If then the individual had,3o per
cent, for producing this proof, the captors had 70
per cent. on the convoy, not one shilling of which
Would they • have been intitled to, if it were. not
foi tie proof which that individual was able. to
produce.

Lord COCITRANE, in reply,. said, he only wished
the Ad of Parliament on the subleti tobe complied_
with. If other Proaors were' as exorbitant in
their demands as the King's, it was because their
situation, in CooSeqUence of what the, other exalt-
sively• enjoyed, obliged them to be The only
way Ministers had left to them to jutity those he
had accused, was to shew that tht charges he had
brought forward were unfounded. He had taken
180 pipes of wine; for which the received 4501.
He brought in t 6 of them, and paid 6701, duty on
them. It was not every one that would choose
to lttuy them. He bought -it because he liked small
wing (a laugh). If proper encouragement were
given, a much greater number, of prizes would be
sent in. At present the commerce of France was
almost uninterrupted. The cause originated in the
Admiralty Courts. Our navy-cost us annually 20
millions. Six inight.be saved, and the commerce of
France destroyed. He expected Lat the
men opposite would defend such
,abuses, but from
their known abilities he expected they would defend
them better than they did. 'The King's Prottor
did not receive less than 40,9001. per annum ; he
did not think it right that lie should receive more
than the Speaker did for sitting in the Chair of :that
House. The Noble Lord then justified his conduct-
at Malta, and concluded by enforcing his former
argtiments.
Captain BERESFORD 'said, the Noble Lord had
spoken of British Officers as neglecting to
.do
duty, because they had not a prospeCt of sntficient
emolument. He believed they Nould do their duty
if they had not 'sixpence in the world. •
Lard COCHlZANEexplained. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUaR thought
bringing for ward one_of the cases would answer every
purpose. Ifthere were a distinction ()leases he could
bring forward tiwo. It wouldlie better than incum-
bering the HoUse with the whole. He• was anxious
the calumnies should be met .• and refuted; but
wished the Noble Lord. would seek better infor,
mation than that contained-in the book alluded to.
.As the falsehood of that work in some parts had
been shewnlie hoped the Noble Lord would be
careful what credit he gave to the rest ,of it,
Mr. FREEIYINLE was of opinion the Noble Lord
would have dune .veil to have corr,eted himself
with respect to the income of the King's Proctor.
The Noble Lorcl had,said it amounted to 40,0001.
a year :' if 11F inspected the Report delivered. into the,
Committee of Ficjabee, tie' would find it did not ex-
ceed 7or 8000l* • -

. Lord COCHRANE agreed la the proposition of the
Right Hop. Gentlepaan .pppusite, and accordingly
moved fol• docuthents rel.iiing to two
.of the vessels
named in the original motion, the Two Sister, Cap-
tured by the Lord Nelson hired armed ciater, aucl.
the Amphion. '

. .
.. ~
a hb quest ion was then put and agreed to. .
Ls rd COCHRANE then moved for the authority
by ‘irtue of which the King's Procioracted in.son-
uetunauun of ships, dated Marsh 29, 1779. .
Mr. ROSE said there were two dueurnents of thtt
nature. .

•
Lord COCHRANE explained which of the two he
.wished to be produced.
4fter a tew words from Sir W. SCOTT, the MO-
tiOil was put and carried.
Mr. Rose said, he would then move for the other
document, dated 1708..

Lord FOLKESTONE Objeaed to the motion being
made .without a preViots notice. , .
Mr. Rose never knew 4. was necessary when one
of his Majesty's MinisterS :moved. for docernentS
from his o wn office ; he, however, had,no objection
to postpone hi; motion
.011' to-morrow,- and gave
notice accotdingly. •

r BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.

. .
Mr. YORKE rose to call the attention of the House
.to what. he considered a gross breach of the privi.
leges .the House. •If it appeared to them as it
did to him, be thought no opposition would be
made to the motion. As far as that to which he
alluded•concerned himself, it gae hint no.uneasi.
ness he treated such things with contempt, but at
the present time ,he thought it proper to come to
some 'understanding about their privileges; as They
wete trenched upon day atter day,, If they did not
.soon. exert Therrselveg, _ it would be thought !bay.
'wanted spirit to assert their privilecres. He 'would
read part of a placard which he herd M his hand, in
which his name was joined with that of an HOn.
Gentleman opposite, and in which also appeared a
decree of a self-colistituted society called the " Bri-
tish Forum," which ran thus :—" Last Monday,
after an interesting discussion, it was unanimously
resolved, that the enforcement of the Standing, Or-
der to exclude Strangers from the Gallery of the
House of Common.s ought to be censured as an insi
dious and` ill-timed attack on the Liberty'of the
Press, as tending to aggravate the grievances of the
people, and' render,,their representatives objects of
suspicion." This censure, he contended, applied to
the Orders themselves. Though lie Was a friend to
-the liberty, he '!it as an enemy to the licentiousness
of the }gyres;, and those he, thought were the greatest
.of friends to the liberty of the press who were
Most forward to 'oppose, the abuse of it, as the
abuses of it ;Were most likely to endanger it, and
occasion its overthrow. - After some further obser-
vations, he moved, that the Clerk,shnuld re id't hat
article of th 6 Bill'of Rights relative to the aright of
discussing what passed in that House out of doors.
The Placard was then read, by the Clerk; after
which the Article from the:Rill:of Rights, which
s.ft forth = that the Debates and-Procteding4 in tii'ar
Honse•Were not to be questioned in an) place our
of Parliament.

Mi. Yo luck then .moved, that the Rdnter be or.

dered to appear at- tf;e B;r of the ifoc.,e
morrow
No bpPosition was made to the moron, end rho
PriPter, T. Dean, Wardour-street; W 43 ordered 11)
apfear at the Bar. ,