The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 16.

Lord DEN NI N, in the absence of the Lord Chancellor, took
hia seat on the Woolsack at Five o'Clock.
'FRE MARQUIS OF NORMANDY'S PROTEST.

The Marquis of NORNIANBY moved that leave be given
to Peers to sign, on Monday next, the protest of the Marquis
of Normanby against the decision of the House, negativing the
resolutions proposed cn the subject of Ireland.—Agreed to.
COLONEL VERNER.

The NOBLE MARQUIS then said, that he had to address one
word of explanation to their Lordships on the snbject
of a mistake which had been made in the usual vehicles of
public information in giving a report of his speech
of last night. He had been represented as saying that
the dismissal of Colonel Verner had not been his own act,
but had been the act of the Lord Chancellor ( Lord Plunket).
Now what he had said was, that the allegation against him,
that he had dismissed Colonel Blacker and Colonel Verner, was
incorrect. 'that the dismissal of Colonel Blacker had taken
plane during the Government of the Marquis of Wellesley, but
that with regard to the dismissal of Colonel Verner,
he (the Marquis of Normanby) took the whole responsibility
upon himself. He had afterwards communicated on the sub-
ject by letter with the Lord Chancellor (Lord Plunket), who
entirely approved of the course which he had adopted.

THE CHARLEMONT HOUSE PETITION.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH asked the Noble Marquis
(Normanby) when he intended to present the petition which
he had stated to have been agreed on at a meeting at Charle-
mont House, respecting the imaginary grievances of Ireland.
The Marquis of NORM A NBY had never stated that the peti-
tion was in his custody. It was in the custody of his Noble Friend
the Marquis of Clanricarde, who had left town that morning. He
had no doubt, however, but that his Noble Friend would pre-
sent the petition immediately that he returned. The petition
would probably be presented during the course of next week,
when the Noble Marquis could satisfy himself as to the respec••
tability of the petitioners.
During this discussion the Loan CHANCELLOR entered the
House and took his seat on the Woolsack.

POSTPONEMENT OF THE BISHOP OF EXETER'S

MOTION.

The Bishop of LONDON said that in consequence of the
indisposition of his Right Rev. Friend (the Bishop of Exeter)
he had been requested to state that that Right Rev. Prelate
would put off the motion of which he had given notice for that
evening to Friday next.
POOR-LAW—MOTHER AND CHILD.
JUDGMENT OF THE COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH.
Lord DENMAN rose to request their Lordships' attention
to a subject which had occupied a great deal of space in the
proceedings of the other House of Parliament—which had also
been made the subject of discussion in the other House
of Parliament. There had been standing upon the Orders
of the other House for several days past this notice—" Mr. Fer-
rand to put the following question to the Secretary of State for
the Horne Department: That as Lord Chief Justice Denman
has declared it to be the unanimous opinion of the judges of the
Court of Queen's Bench, " that there are come cases in which
it is necessary to break in upon an Act of Parliament, arid upon
that which may have existed from all time ;" and has also de-
clared that "it is the mother who is the proper party to have
the custody of all her children under seven years of age, and
that it is not for the benefit of the mother, but for
the protection of the children ;" and that he thinks
that " the judge; ought to crush the first attempt
to depart from that principle, and it is of the highest impor-
tance that it should be considered the undoubted law of the
land,"—whether the Government intend to insert a clause in
the New Poor-law Bill, for the purpose of prohibiting the sepa-
ration of mother and child, if they should become the inmates
of a workhouse.' "—(A laugh.) It appeared from this that the
Chief Justice had been represented as having declared, that it
was of the highest importance that what the judges considered
right should be adopted and adhered to, although it might be
contrary to statute, and to the written laws of the land. This
was a most extraordinary position to be announced, especially
by the judges. The subject had been discussed ; and
a Right Hon. Gentleman, in another place, had answered in
in the name of the Court, and upon authority, that no portion
of the statement was correct. He however found that there
was still a strong disposition to assume the accuracy of the
statement. There was an article on the subject which occu-
pied three columns of the Times of this morning, and which
asserted the correctness of that report. Much evidence had
also been produced on the subject, and it had been stated that
at the time the judgment had been delivered, one of the re-
porters had turned round to his neighbour and said, " Den-
man has blurted out a great truth."—( A laugh.) Now he (Lord
Denman) was willing to receive the commendation of any in-
telligent person ; and if he had uttered a great truth he was glad
of it. lie had been told, for he had not read it, that this
judgment had been the subject of a leading article shortly
after the time when it had been delivered. Now, could
it be supposed for a moment that 'the judges, of
all I.eople in the world, had said that it was sometimes
necessary to break through an Act of Parliament ?—( Hear,
hear.) The circumstance of one reporter turning round to
another and making the observation to which he had alluded,
reminded him of an anecdote which he had heard of an ancient
orator, who did not hold the people in that respect which he
( Lord Denman) did, and who, whenever he was applauded
by the people during the course of his addresses to them, asked
whether he had tittered any very great nonsense to draw
forth such commendation. lie had the greatest deference for
public opinion, and he entertained the greatest respect for
those who were the organs of it ; but he must own that it
was pith the utmost astonishment he found it stated in a
paper of great intelligence and talent, that it was said by any
one in that establishment that when one of the judges uttered
some very eminent nonsense, he (the reporter) turned round
to another and said that " Denman had blurted out
great truth."—(Laughter. ) The case was this, a child had
been removed from its mother by the justices, the mother hav-
ing given her consent to the removal. Now what the judges of
the Queen's Bench held was that the mother was bound to protect
her child, and no consent from her could authorise the justice
in removing it front its natural protector. The case quoted in
the course of the argument was that of se Bennet, in
which it was decided that the mother could be passed.to Ire-
and, although the child could not, having been born in Eng- I
and, and obtained a settlement. The facts of that ease were,
that the statute compelled the justices to remove the mother, '
but gave them no authority to remove the child ;
which was a settled person. The ease was ar-
gued before Lord Tenterden, and that great judge
said, that " although there was great inconvenience in solve-
rating the mother and child, yet that could not be avoided, if
it was specially provided by an Act of Parliament. The s'a-
tute
was imperative. It ordered the justices to remove the
mother, but gave no authority to remove the child." In the
same spirit, he (Lord Denman) had said that the ancient
rule of law might be set aside by an Act of Parliament,
and the Court would be obliged to rule in support of
the statute, against the expediency and authority of
the common law ; but lie said further, that in the case before
him, no such necessity existed. There was no necessity to
set aside the old law. He had communicated with the Se-
cretary of State, and with his brother judges. But one of them
had told him, that the Secretary of State had applied to him
on the subject, and that he had stated that the idea was a per-
fect chimera, and that what he (Lord Denman) had said only
referred to that case which was before the Court, and in
which there was no ntcessity imposed by statute for the re-
moval of the child ; and for them to decide in favour of it ;
was so abhorrent to the spirit of the ancient law, whatever
might be said on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) He had re-
ferred to a learned and able friend of his, Mr. Adolphus,
who reported the decisions in his Court.; and that gentleman
wrote him an account of what was said; stating that he did
not give all the words, but those which he gave were the
principal words used, and in the order in which I,wy lied been
used. And Mr. Adolphus added, that if the judges had said
that there were cases in which it would be necessary le break
in upon an Act of Parliament, he, Mr. Adolphus, would not
have required a note to enable hire to remember so remark-
able a diet um.—( Hear and laughter.)
LORD DUNDONALD'S PATENTS.
lord BROUGHAM rose to present a petition, the presene
tation of which he had announced for last night, but had post-
poned it to this evening in consequence of the pressure of busi-
nes= before the House last night. It was the petition of his
Noble and Gallant Friend, Lord Dundonald. Although that
ingenious and able person laid his claim before their Lordships
in respect to hie own inventions only, yet with the most
natural pride and veneration for the memory of his late father,
lie wished to lest his claim to their Lordships' consideration,
not on hie own merits alone, but on the great merits of the
deceased Earl, his father. Therefore, he (Lord Brougham)
should not he performing his duty to this petition, if he did
not, in the first place, state what those extraordinary merits
were. The late Earl had not been an officer in the service of
this country, excepting iri the earlier part of his life, but lie
had devoted the greater part of his life to chemical and
mechanical pursuits, and with singular success in
those studies. He applied them in a greater degree
than any other person not excepting the professors
of these sciences, to various useful objects, amongst
others to the highly useful application of coal tar in cover-
ing palings, gable ends, and other parts of barns and buildings
exposed to the injury of the weather. The introduction of
this invention was opposed at first, as was the case with all new
invention!, unfortunately for the inventors. But, after the
prejudices against the first introduction of a novelty had worn
away, and experience proved the value of the invention, the
public reaped the benefit, aed the public alene. It was an un-
fortunate law of our nature, and it worked great hardships
upon learned and ingenious men, that the mass of the public
treated with prejudice and distrust every new invention, how-
ever important and promising it might be. One powerful
objection to the coal tar, at first, was that a mephitic gas,
hydrogen, sulphurated and carbonated gases, a ere evolved
from it, bat atter a time these gases were dissipated, and the
fixed liquid becoming solid, was totally free from smell. When
this was found out, and that the residuum became a most use-
ful protection to the timber and buildings to which it was ap-
plied, the valuable product was by degrees universally employed
over the country for the preservation of buildings in defiance
of tit and weather. But what was the case with Lord Dun-
donald ? For the first fourteen years he had the protection of
his patent. Parliament gave him a protection of fourteen
years more, without producing any beneficial effect Lyon his
fortenes. For, after these twenty-eight years, when he had no
Act or patent in his favour,:the public reaped the entire benefit,
and had continued to do so for fifty years. He would not
occupy more time than the importance of the subject re-
gnired. Ile must state, however, one important benefit
which the world had derived from this invention.
In the course of the process for manufacturing
coal-tar upon Lord Dundonald's factory, it was found
carbonaceous and sulphureous gases, evolved in the process, were
applicable to the process of giving light, and these gases were
accordingly burned in his works, so that the first use of gas for
giving light was made by Lord Dundonald, in his factory,
thirty or forty years before Wilson's patent. So much for the
first of these inventions of Lord Dundonald. He would not
dwell on the next two inventions, the productions of alkali and
chryetals of coda, from common salt, by a most ingenious mode.
The purity in which they were produced by that process ren-
dered them of the greatest value in the manufacture of glass,
and also in the manufacture of soap. These were all important
articles, as his Noble Friend near him (Lord Monteagle)
knew very well, as he had them so long under his hands.
(Laughter. ) The next invention related to the applica-
tion of alum and other substances to the improvement
of agriculture, the great benefit of which inventio
acknowledged over the country, although Lord Dundonaldwaswno
derived no benefit from it. The result was that he died
poor, having been long supported by his friends. He spent
the whole of his fortune in bringing these inventions to per-
fection, and he lived in the strictest economy and self-denial
to eke out his moderate means for the attainment of
those* noble and useful objects to which his energy,
and learning, and unceasing industry were devoted.
With all this industry and perseverance, the result was the loss
of his whole fortune, and leaving no more behind him to his
his family :lan his fame, and affording to his country the be-
nefit of his ,splendid scientific discoveries, from which he
reaped not tire slightest benefit. He felt confident, that in
souse of those countries where an absolute Government pre.
wailed, that a man of such high scientific attainment, and who
proved hiinself to be such a benefactor to the world as the
late Noble Earl had done, would have been amply remune-
rated. In this country, however, Where (roe institutions
were reoognised, a different system prevad, and it wes left
to the great body of the people to hold out Ire"!'iCeglegitgto
scientific men, and then to reward them after their 1-..:!""3
had been called forth. But still he thought they, as represent-
ing the people, ought talteleady-to- hold -nut that recompense
which they were now called to do by his Noble Friend. His
Noble ]Friend's ,exploits as a naval commander were
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