The Sun.
London, England, 1844-03-09 00:00:00

BRAZIL:
Mr. BWART wished to lout a question to the Right
lion. Baronet at the head of the ',Government, with
respect to Brazil. The Governinent of Brazil proposed
to impose by their new tariff a duty of: 60 per cent.
on the value of the manufactures of this coun-
try. Now, he wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet,
whether the duty which the Government imposed upon
Brazilian sugar was not 150 per cent, on the value?
Ile only asked the Right Hon. Baronet to give thein
what was the reciprocal duty on the value of the menu;
factures imported into Brazil, and the duty on the value.
of Brazilian produce imported into this country.
Sir R. PEEL said, with respect ,to the calculation
whether a certain, amount of duty would be 150 per cent.
on the value of the article, he thought the Hon. Member
was quite competent to make that calculation him-
self.—(A laugh.) The proposition made by the Bra-
ilian Government was, that its sugar should be
admitted into this country at the same rate of duty
as colonial sugar. There was subsequently a relaxa-
tion of` that condition; and the Brazilian Government
offered, that whatever might be the amount of duty on
colonial augart, the duty on Brazilian sugar should not
exceed that by more than one-tenth—that was.to say,
if 10s. was the duty on colonial produce, the duty on
Brazilian produce should not exceed 1 ls. , With
respect to '-manutlictured produce, the proposal of the
Brazilian Government was that the duty on cotton wool
should be 40 per cent. ad valorem; that the duty on
woollen goods should be 30 per cent. ad valorem. On
other articles there was to be no restriction.
Mr. WARBURTON said the question was simply.
an arithmetical one ; it was whether 275. 6d.—that was
259., plus 2s. 6d—was not a duty at the rate of 158 per
cent. His Hon. Friend wished to draw a contrast he-
teen the rate of duty the Brazilians wished to put
on our produce, and the rate of duty they were pre-
pared to submit to from us—that was 40 or 60 per cent.
on their side, on our goods, against 158-per cont..on our
side, on their sugar.
The rodiersation then dropped.
POOR-LAW.

Mr. TURNER asliediheßight Hon. Secretary of
State for the Home Department whether he intended
introducing into the Poor-law Bill a clause to appoint
chaplains to the poor-law unions, to be paid out of the
rates, to the exclusion of the clergy of the Protestant
Dissenters ?. -
Sir J. GRAHAM .said he adhered to the answer he
had given tea similar question, put to ,him by the Hon.
Member for Evesham. In any alteration of the Poor-
law Act, he did not intend to propose any alteration in
the law relating to religiouS instruction in union work-
houses.,
EMPLOYMENT OF THE NAVY IN THE COL
.LECTION OF POOR-RATES, 'IREEAND.
Captain PECHELL rose to explain a statement
which he had made on :Friday last on the subject
of the employment of the navy to enforce the payment
of poorlates in Ireland. The Right Honourable
Baronet Opposite, one of the Lords of the Admiralty, had
stated that he was not aware of the existence of such a
practice ;and he (Captain Pechell) had quoted from an
Irish county paper' a statement that the Eftrl of Lucan
had, at a meeting of the Castlebar Union, de-
dared -his determination rather to encourage- resist-
anee to the poor-rate collectors, than to submit to the
imposition of a new rate, while so large a
portion 'of the first rate remained Uncollected.
In . 'reply to the Earl of Lucan, Captain.
Blake was reported to have said that naval forceS were
coming round to the coast, and 'the Earl of,-Lucan was'
reported. to have replied,, that he had no doubt but that
the Goiernment Wcittld send'ferces to enforce thecollec,
tion of' the rates.' He had since received a communication
from- the'Earl of Ltleibli, denying! that he had ever made
such a statement, and he thought ithis.duty testate that
fact to the House. At the same time he begged to state
that he-had, Only quoted the statement as' he had found
it in a newspaper published, in' the Noble Earl's own
county,.
REDUCTION OF THE THREE-AND-A-HALF
- ' PER CENTS.
On the Order of the Day for the lionse resolving
itself into Committee on the reduction of the Three-
and-a-Half per Cents. being read,
Mr. S. CRAWFORD rose amidst loud cries of " Oh,
oh," and said he had several petitions to present on the
subject .of supply
The SPEAKER begged to inform the Hon. 'Member
that he could not present the petitions.—(Cheers.) The,
motion was, that the House should resolve itself into,
Committee on the Three-anti-a-Half per Cent. Annuities,
and not, that it should, res*e itself into a Committee Of
Supply.—(Cheers.)..
The House then resolved itself into-Committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said. the
subject' which it was his duty to submit to the House,
was one which Would be trcktiowledged by 'every one to'
, .
be of considerable- importance. It involved the
with a large ' amount of the - public
debt ;,- it -Ives calculated to produce a great
annual saving in the charge which the public incurred
on account of that debt ; ' and 'if the House should-
be pleased to agree to the measure.which lie 'should. pre':
pose, .it would tend„ in . his, opinion,. to , raise the ,
character and the power of. this country, by evincing
the extent of our great resource.s„'and our determination
to discharge with honour the national debt.—(Cheers.) If
he were the first time calling upon the House to deal
with a subject of this nature, he might think it necessary
to enlarge upon the motives which justified him in making
sucks proposition. Bnt he was not the first Finance
Minister of this country who had had the pleasing task.
of recommending similar arrangements .to the House ;
and the principle upon which those arrangements
proceeded .-was one so
_universally acknowledged
by statesmen of the greatest , financial' ability, by
men of every shade, of opinion—it had been 'so fre-
quently recommended by Committees 'of the House of
CommOna, and so' frequently acknoivledged- and con
firmed by Pnrliament--that he felt bithaelf relieved from
- -
the necessity. which onauch a, subject might otherwise
be imposed upon him, of showin•g to the House the cor-
rectness of the- principle i upon whieh his proposal was,
founded. . His task was of a different nature. , The pro-
priety Of affording relief to the public being acknoWledged,
the duty 'that devolved upon him 'was to satisfy the
House that the time was arrived, and that circumstances
were favourable for accomplishinga, reduction of the debt
which would produce a great 'animal saving. It was in
the,discharge of that duty that he, presented himself to
the Tion.se . and he' hedged their-attention, for 4 short
period, while he stated to them the
.grotint.l4- upon which
he conceived himself called ttpbrt' to propose„and ,upon
whiCh he trusted thanense would adept, the measures_
which ho bad now'. t 6 'Submit. The alteration which
ho was' "about. to- ileieclintrientl ' to the Mouse was
one dealing with "2:te.;'-iiirge amount of - debt—
an amount of :debt' absolutely' ' larger than
that with which any Reuse of Parliattiont was ever
before called.upon td deal. It was no les,s=dor only a
few hundred;pounds less—than 2:50 milliOnS of the na-
tional debt:. If it. Were considered relatively, in the pro
portion Which 'it 'bore to the 'whole 'amount of the
debt, he . Cad nbt 'say thilt in that respect it was
unprecedented
.;. because when .they looked intek to the
first occaslon'iOrhieli a reductiOn•of thentinual'interest,
was proposed' 'Po the House by
.11...Pelliain in
,1749, 64.
would :And that that Minister; .had' to deal with a stun
inferior 'in amount to that itlich he had Mentioned, '
bat still 'a sum whieb, compared' with' the 'exigible.
debt of-the country at the time, eiceeded by one- third '
the proportion which the present amount bore' 'to the'
whole 'debt -of the country. But, then that really
able man -relied upon the character and credit of
the country, and *the: viiilinOess of all men
to c-latribute to its welfare,,and he_carried the'reduCtion
into effect With saccess' and with, universal' applause.
He (the Chancellor of -the • Exchequer) had *alluded '
to the magnitude, of •the *omit ;. for he thought that
on an occasion like this '' the House ought
to have the whole of the_ facts before.' them. It •
was his duty to;stete, ,to them that which; in theeye of
every considerate man, was a main eleMent' in'the ope-
ration.' He would say that the time tad arrived
,when i
the operation could be effected, and Wheh he thought it'
ought to be effected. It had been' long the opinion of
the.pnblic that the Government ought to undertake this
reduction ; it had long been.declarcd ,by the organs of
public opinion that the time 'was not distant when the
interest of the debt should be redueed ; and this Opinion
was confirmed by. his own attentive consideration of 'the
money market of the country,. He -believed that
there never was a time when the amount of capital
seeking employment was greater than at present. That
resulted from various causes. There was a large amount
of capital accumulated by the industry of individuals'
which was greater in this country in recent years than
ever had been known nil any other country.in the wox•ld.
Another cause-was the want of security 'in foreig.'n
investments, from which not even the interest ciitild
be obtained, and the firmness of the security in the
funds of this country, 'which induced not Only her
,44ivii
children to invest their capital, but drew also theciipital,
of other countries:. The evidenCe of the abundance of
money was to be found in the price whiCh securities
bore at present,; and it was. notorious that
the holders of Consols at present derived little
more than_ 31. ls. per cent., and upon Exchequer
Bills little more than 21. 4s. per Cent. it was true. that,
privit4 securities gave a greater interest ; and that
was natural, for the security of the nation was
necessarily greater than that of a private individual.
But, notwithstanding the favourable state of the money.
' market, there might be circumstances arising to cause this
' facility of acquiring loans to be one that might turn out
Only of a temporary character. But when he looked
'around him, and saw the good understanding which
"existed' between this country_ and all foreign
• "nations-;when he saw the continued influx, day by day,
---of the capital of other countries. into this—when he saw
the revival of • trade; industry, , and ..commerce, . in,
' all parts ' of' the- world—when- he ' thus saw all
countries pacified, and . reflected on the un-
tiring energy. Of 'his 0wn,..--he would. not 'anticipate
anything which should forbid the attempt, which
''' he called upon the House to assist. him 311 making,
to reciiice the "biirthens of the .country.-.. There was
another essential element in the consideration of, this
matter, and that was the time at which "the change was
proposed to be made---u tithe when the revenue promised
them s 6 much assistance. lie felt, what he was sure,every.
Member in that House felt, that that State which had
not the means of defraying its current expenditure by-
its etirrent ' means within the . year, , was not
in a • state ' to' deal 'advantageously with its
nurthens - and
.obligations... Its measures would
be greatly crippled,. and a Government so . situ-
ated must be compelled to forego advantages
..4 liiiiidi,iiuldettAtiother * and a better state of things, it,
,----,...vi? . *-110t and expedient to avail -theurtelsesst
i ,-141.---= Kipp '''t°' "Y 'ha was
fl3Petto7/IDI
I,
tcl,-,lp
~...ITbc to the of o owl:nous
-atilifitie.- , , using)—he was haw to say
''."-
--;-`,:..,: •,,,;4 .
.-.,.
czsi.
_=--,r
~;::.A,
--,v, • .

14.

that.: by their exertions in the year' 1842—by their
energy, foresight,, and determination—they had been
able to place the revenue. of the country on a footing to
meet the exigencies of the service. They had now, got
a revenue more than equal to their expenditure, and
they: were thereby enabled to reap the advantages which
a firm adherence to a principle of that nature vras ever sure
to give—and thus realise to the country the benefit not
merely of a -temporary reduction of a few taxes, but of
the permanent, obligations of the State. He had said
that the income of the present year was more than suffi-
cient to meet the charges of that year. So far as the two
last quarters were concerned the excellent state of the re.;
ve.ntie was shown bydecuments already on the table of the
House. The House would find by the papers that had been
laid before it, that, at the commencement of the last year the
balance.in the hands of the Government was 1,400,0001.,
while, at the termination of it, it was ,upwards of
4,700,0001.—(Hear, hear.) lam happy (continued the
Right Honourable Gentleman) to inform the House
also that, speaking at the present moment, I can
state to them that there are no deficiency bills
of the Bank unsatisfied. We are free at this quarter
from repaying those advances made by the Bank for the
purpose of meeting the demands for the public service.
I can also state that, since the sth April last, it has not
been necessary to Apply to the Bank for advances iii an-
ticipation of the votes of the House of Commons. So far
as these things are concerned, however useful they may be
inthemselves, yet they are calculated, to' cripple the
Government. I can assure the House that from those
encumbrances we are at the present moment free. I
will also point: the attention of the House to this
fact, that • the - amount of the unfunded' debt
at this moment •is less than it has been
for many• antecedent years ; that the amount
of Exchequer-bills is only between eighteen and nine-
teen millions—that they bear an interest of 21.45. percent.
and that, at the present moment, they bear a premium
of 735. • Looking, therefore, at the growing wealth of this
-country, looking at its 'capital, considering its vast
-resources, looking at the continuance of its friend-
ly relations with foreign-Powers, considering that the re-
venue has recovered from the temporary difficulty under
which it laboured—considering that we are free from
unfunded and floating 'debt, I think that I
have made out a case to this House, to show that the
time has arrived when those who have the management
of the financial affairs of the country should make an
attemipt to reduce the interest on the national debt.
The debt we have to deal with on this occasion amounts
to nearly 250,000,000 L, and consists of four severalkinds
of stock. The first is the Three-and-a"-Half per Gent.
• Stock, originally created in 1818, which is the foundation
of stock of this description, and amounts to 10,000,000 L
The next is the Reduced Three-and-a-Half per Cents.,
being a stock which was first established in the year
1760, originally as a Four per Cent. Stock, added to
at various periods, and reduced to Three-and-a-Half
per Cent, in 1824, when Lord Ripen was Chancellor of
the Exchequer. It amounted to 67,500,000/. The next is'
the Three-and-a-Half per Cents., originally funded
in 1784, at 5 per cent:, and which has, in the gradual
pregTess of the country, the growth of capital, and.
confidence in our own resources, undergone two
several reductions—one in 1822, when Mr. Van-
sittart was Chancellor of the Exchequer, from
five per cent to four ; and the other in 1830, when
had the honour of holding the office I now fill, and
when it- was further reduced to Three-and-a-Half per
Cent., at which it has ever since .remained. The last
stock is the one called 'the Old Three-and-a'-Half per
Cents., which-"was an Irish Stock created in 1787, and had
been from time to time augmented to ,the sum of
14,600,000 Z ; the whole amount of these stocks is
249,600,000/., or, in round numbers, nearly the amount
lat first stated. Now -it might, certainly,' have been
legally Correct to have dealt separately with these -sepa-
rate branches of-the,Three-and-a-Half per Cent. Stock ;
but I conceived that this course, though legally correct,
would be essentially unjust. I thought it would not be be-
coming in a great country like this to take advantage of
one or two particular branches of stock being of small
amount, and to call on the proprietors who have invested
their money in these funds to submit to a re-
duction, which, from their being small in num-
ber, they • could not resist. I have, therefore,
recommended that the same rule should be applied to all
these stocks, and that the reduction of interest shall be
made at once upon the whole of them.
With respect to these stocks, -there is some dif-
ference in 'thee circumstances. -in- 'which they
stand.' 'Three of them are absolutely at' the-disposal of
Parliament, to deal with as it thinks fit ; brit one of
them, the Three-and-a-Half per Cents. of 1818, stands
in a different situation. When that stock was created,
the holders received a security that their interest should
be paid theni till 1829; that they shoild have six months'
notice before any reduction of interest, or redemption of
-stock took plaice ) aid; thirdly, that'they 'should' not be
paid off in sums -of less than 500,0001. at a time.
In any arrangement which may be entered into, I am
sure that the House will go along with 'me when I 'de-
clare, that we ought to adhere' to every engage-
ment into which we' have entered, ' and- to give
to the holders of that' stock every advantage
to which they are entitled 'under the provisions of the'
statute.(Cheers.) We are -bound to adhere to the
strict letter of our agreement with them.—(Cheers.)
•If we look for precedents as to the manlier in which
this conversion may be brought about, we shall
find that at various times different plans have been
adopted under similar circumstances. In some cases
advantages have been given 'to the holders of the
higher stock, in order to induce them to accept of an
amount in the lower stock in the place of that which they
held in the higher. These advantages have been of a
different nature. In some cases a pecuniary bonus has
-been proposed to the holders of the' higher stock, thus
-augmenting - the actual amount of the debt while it
diminished the -interest of it. In other cases an en-
gagement has been entered into with the' holders of the
higher stock, that no further reduction of interest should,
take place until after a given time.' The House. must be
aware that many planshave been proposed in the differ-
ent organs of public opinion, for the purpose of effecting
the reduction which I now propoSe to accomplish, and
each of these plans has its peculiar advantages and dis-
advantages.. The House will agree with me, however,
think, in being of opinion that all these plans resolve
themselves into three cases, which are open for our adop-
tion; The 'first Case is to give to' every holder of Three-
and-a-Half per Cent. Stock au equal amount in the
Three per Cent. Stock, thus adding to the capital of the
debt. The 'second plan is to create a Two-and-a-Half
per Cent. Stoat for the holders of every 100/. Three-and-
s-Half per Cent.. Stock, and give them such an amount
-of the Tivo-and-tiATalf -per Cent. Stock as would give-;
them an increase of 3 per cent. upon' the capital they
have already invested in the Three and-a-llalf per Cents.
The third plan is to reduce' the Three-and-a-Half per
Cents. to Three-and-a-Quarter per Cents. The, object
of all these plans being- to effect- a reduction of the in-
terest at present pay_ahte'on .the debt• from per cent.
to 3 per cent. It is. impossible to deny but that each of
these plans has its peculiar adiantage; and no doubt each
plan will find its advocates; but f, I think, • before-. I
state the plan whiCh I propose that the House should
adopt, it would. *be well that I should: lay down
the principles which I • have adopted in review-
. ing 'the- several plans to which I have alluded.
think it my duty, as the agent of the public debtor,
to secure the public credit with the greatesepossible ad-
. vantages, consistent with a due regard ;for the interests
Of the State. Idy first duty is, to the :public, whose ser-
vant I ani ; brit I feel that it is perfectly possible to recons
.aancile that duty. with the regard that is deelto the in-
terests of individuals who lend their money. Ido not.
think it would be just to purcha:se great advantages at the
expense ;of burdening those who ;will come after us. With
respect to debts incurred• in time of war, it is perfectly
Fair and legitimate that posterity should bear a share of
those burdens by which the' empire was extended or its
existence preserved. But to incur an additional debt in
time of peace, and to throw that burden, on those who
come after us, with a view that we may obtain great
present-advantages, fur thepurpose of relieving ottrselv.t s,
is a course winch I need not say I reprobate, because I
am sure it must be universally disagreeable to all who
consult the true interests-of the,
.country. But, ,Sir, I
have to call upon the House to adopt a course which, I
trust, I will be able to-satisfy them of the. propriety of
Pursuing., It must be obvious to the House that it' the
Three-and-a-Half per Cents. were reduced lo Three pei
Cents., by giving an amount of Consols, it- would be ne-
misery in the operation to do what was done in 1822
to give a bonus on the Three per Cents., for the purpose.
of insuring operation. Considering the present price uf
the Funds, and the necessity of endeavouring to secure a:
conversion, the country would be obliged to submit to. ad-
ditional capital of from 10,000,000/. to 12,000,000 L of-debt, ,
though the immediate result would be a saving to the pub-
lic of between-800,0001. and 900,000/. On the principle
laid doWe of saving we are not justified by adding to the•
mass of debt, though the immediate result of the saving_
the public would be between 800,0001. and 900,0001. For
however at the present moment some gentlemen might
think it a matter of indiffence to what amount our debt
was 'extended, being, as it was; 700,000,0001., yet still
the future condition: of the country should be looked. to;
.3::uei
and when, if we were engaged in wars,' the debt which
etohrnw; reckless[
and
r to edetrimentalut
c
the other plan remains to: be considered,
thei a
Three
-a-Half per Cents.,
t through the medium (
thatree-and-a-Quarter per Cent.
• Stock- The resnit
will, in the first instance, be aadirrmariw.ierint ent undoubtedly
edatritnual saving'
to the public;: but against that is to.
be,
se e fact that
there will be moincrease of capital; and the h f
.moreover, this additional advantage, that by the will,
be;
meet I shall propose to the House, there will be a futitfert;
further reduction, which will give in due time an increased
. advantage in point of annual income, an increased ad-.
vantage so ranch the more valuable, because though it
may not be brought to apply so immediately to the re-
sources of the country, the country Will receive the full
value of the whole reduction, without any countervailing .
disadvantage. The plan, therefore, which I shall pro-
pose to the IJouse-will be this That every holder of
Three-and-a-Half per Cent. Stock shall receive a like
amount of Three-and-a-Quarter per Cent. Stcek,on which
interest at the rate of three-and-a-quarter per cent. per
annum shall he paid :until the 10th of October, 1854 ;"
giving ten years during which the three-and-a-quarter
per cent, will be payable upon the stock in question.
I shall further propose, " Thatfionz and after the date-of
'October, 1854, the interest to be paid shalt be at Me rate
fj three per cent. only, and that this stock,"
so being at the ;rate of three per cent., "shall be gua-
ranteed against any in, thee reduction for firmly •vears
after that period." This stock, therefore, will: remain at
three-and a-quarter per cent. until October,JBs4 ; it.
at three per trent. until 1874', whatever may
be the improvement in the finances of the country, or
whatever may, be the reduction applied to other portions
of the national debt.-“ Marks of surprise, followed by
laughter, on the Opposition benches, in the'inidst of
•,aehich several Hon. Members rose and, left. the House.)-
akellerdlY, carettZi..AnyJnithiir,,-.attentiott,‘<latightoo*l
The arrangements must be made in the mode in which
eimilex urangeraeute have been iu*le before, by

allowing all persons .a limited time to. express their
dissent from the terms offered. With respect to that
branch of the stocks which was created in 1814, I shall
proceed as has been always customary, and I shall call
on. the House .to resolve, that the holders shall be paid
off. The periods which I propose to fix upon are—
the 23d of March, for those in England ; the 22d of Oc-
tober, for those in Europe; and the Ist of, February,
1845, for those out of Europe. Under this arrangement
—if I should • succeed in carrying it into' effect—the im-
mediate saving to the public, from the 10th of October
will be, 625,0001. a year—and in the year 1854,• when
the second reduction will take place, ' there 'will be a
saving of 625,0001. more.. This gain will be effected without
any disturbance of the public credit—without any limita-
tion of the capital of the country—or any embarras's7
ments of commercial dealings.. The relief to the cuentey
will be more certainthan could be obtained by
_any at-,
tempt to grasp at immediate advantages, by throwing a
portion of the, public thirdens upon the public creditor.
I trust that I have clearly' -explained the principles on'
which I intend to act. There is, however, another
important 'point connected, with this arrangement, which
I think .it necessary to explain to the House. It is
well-known to those Who have paid attention to the
finances of the country,- that hitherto' 'considerable in -
convenience -has been occasionedin respect to currency
and credit on account of the great inequality in the pay-
ments of the interest of the debt in different -quarters of
the year. At the present moment the amount of the
debt on Which the• interest is required to be,paid in the
-quarters ending January and 'July, is 534,000,0001.,
whereas the amount'of debt on which the interest is
paid in April and October- is 216,00000/ This in-
equality necestarily produced great fluctuations in the
monetary affairs of the Country. I therefore think
my duty to take the opportunity of equalising-the pay-
ment of the dividends, so that on each occasion the de-
mand for money may be about the same amount. And
for this reason I propose that the dividends on all the
new stock shall be paid only in April and in October.
Those who hare hitherto been "paid up to October will
have theirhalf-year to receive in October next. Those
who have usually been paid in January' will have
only one quarter in ' October ; so that all the new
debt may -start from the 10th-of October next. After-
wards there will be two equal divisions of payment,
which, in my opinion, will tend materially to the advan-
tage and.interest of the country.—(Hear, hear.) I know
not that it is necessary for me to say any more. If it
be my happiness to carry this measure successfully
through, it wiThbe• one of the-most gratifying circum-
stances in my life to be able to reflect that, on two seve-
ral occasions-L--in the year 1830 and in the present, year
—I recornmended to Parliament a measure with respect
to a reduction in our annual htirdens, which cannot but
meet with the' approbation of, the country it is so well
calculated to benefit and to relieVe. But however great
my gratification on this ground, there-is still a higher-
gratification which I feel, both as a Minister and an
Englishman, that this measure affords an irre-
fragible - proof of the resources of this coun-
try, and that, with reference ...to other. coun-
tries, it shoWs the' mighty advantages which ever
attend h sacred regard to the obligations of national
honour and good putlx.,----(Loud)cheers.) We have had
in our: time to struggle, with great._ difficulties—we have
had many arduous contests, many bitter reverses to con-
tend against—difficultiesewhich hi:L*o=de the strongest
minds, to. quail—but-am haveOvertome and 'triumphed
'over them all, and that by a simple, but sacred, adhe-
rence t&-the principles of national honour and the ohdi-
gations.of public faith.'-,--(Hear;) •
Mr. BLEWI.TT. then rose to address. the Meuse, but
was met `wit loud cries of " Order, order,")
Mr. GRANE, the Chairniari of the COmmittee of Sup-
ply, then; read the resolutierta from thq table.
Mr. F. ,BAIRIN-C+ Laid it.: gave him much pleasure to
be able to-state that he had heard the proposition of, the
Hon. Gentleman with the greatest satisfaction.—(Hear,
hear.) He should be very sorry if any difference of
opinion preVented him from expressing his approval of a.
plan soadvantegeous to the country. He spoke only of
the principle of the plan ; whether the terms' were ade-
quate to carrying out that principle remained between
the holder of the stock and the. Right Hon. Gentleman.
With respect to ;he plan itself, he thought it was one
beneficial in nitiny ',respects.— (Hear, hear.) - First, it
had this_ great, advantage, that it did not create any ad-
dition to theudebt ; that was in itself a very greatad-
vantage., ~Be thought. also, it was a very honest plan for
a Chancellor of the Exchequer topropose.—(Cheers and
laughter.) The Right Hon.- Gentlethan might have
made therednction of theinterest immediate ; and this
advantage was'no slight one to a Chancellor of, the Ex-
chequer.-=(Chitirs.) -There was alio another advan-
tage as far as private individuals were Concerned ; he be-
lieved the interest was to be reduced one quarter
per. cent. at. once, with a 'probability of a reduction
of one- quarter per cent. more at a future time ; they
thus reduced the 'incomes of private individuals in the
least inconvenient, way possible. On another thing he
could not help expressing the utmost satisfaction ; the
plan wouldinot only be an adtantage to ourselves, but
would give to.otherar a practical lesson that honesty and
good faith, •even under the greatest difficulties, had their
pecuniary advantages, as well as the benefit to be-derived
from the good opinion of the world at large.—(Cheers.)
He could only say, in sitting down, thathe wished'the
most hearty success to the Right Hon. Gentleman's
scheme.— (Loud cheers, particularly from the Ministe-
rial benches.)
Sir JOHN RAE REID said nothing had ever, given
him greater pleasure than the manner in which this
question had been received... 'He thanked the Right
• Hon. Gentlenian'opposite for the liberal and handsome
manner in which -he had spoken. He felt that feeling
would be general in -that House, and he was sure that
the holders of Three-and-a7Half per Cent. Stock would
be highly gratified—(Cheers and laughter)—at the
manner in which the plan had been proposed. Under
all the circumstances, he thought it was most liberal, and
he had no hesitation in stating his firm belief that it
would be almost _generally and entirely acceptable. He
bad been accused on a former occasion of having been
too sanguine.,—(A. laugh-.) A late Chancellor of the
Exchequer, who was now. a Member of another House, had
accused him-of-having made use of a inetaphor.—(A
laugh.)- He (Sir J. R. Reid) had stated that the dis- •
tress was merely a passing cloud.—(A laugh.) He now
saw before them a bright star, and he hoped they would
soon feel'its influence--:(Loud laughter)—and. its influ-
ence would. .be. felt—(Continued laughter)—arid they
would go- liefpre it with prosperity 'and- success.—(Roars
of laughter.) • . . ,

Mi:E; M. STEWART thought that .the Chancellor
of the, Exchequer had exercised a :very sound judgment
in proposing the, plan which he• had submitted to the
House.-,;lle•had also shown-nolitconsiderable portion of
Self-denial. The present holders of stock had been sub-
jected to a less rodtictiori.'thati they would have been
subjected tamtider any other 'sae* which could have
been pr9posed. , There was one portion of the:statement
of the lii§l* Hon. Gentle Man, however, against which
he must -;enter his protest, The Eight . Hon.
Gentleman -had I alluded to . the manner in which
the Four per._,J.cents. bad been reduced, by Lord
-Ripon at the ,time that he was Chancellor of the
Exchequer. The Right Hon. Gentleman .should recol-
lect the statements-which had been Made by Lord Ripon
on that occasion, and w-hithLhad.prOcured .for him the
name of ,0,-Prosperity'Robinson." He hoped the Eight
lion. Gofitiemtth would not. be -mislecl by: appearancet..
No doubt there was a great deal of money in the market,
and in consequence of ita.plenty, -the, Eight Hon Gen-
tleman had been able to make his present arrangements,
but.that arose from the valueless state of money in this
country at preSent. Trade in general was in a state of
the greatest stagnation ; and :,henee„the„ rush. •of
unemployed money to the public funds,which
had raised the OW -and* - enabled the hfonour-
able Gentleman to propose _his :present plan; but' he
warned the Right lion. Gentleman against believing that
the,country,was in a prospe,rous state. A revival of
trade was much needed, and the present superabund-
ance of money was no sign of prosperity. lie highly,
apProved of the proposal of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, as he considered it would not only Conduce to
the profit of the country, . but that by its adoption the
Character and credit of thecOuntry, which were still more
jaluable,would be materially strengthened.—(Cheers.) •
Sir EASTHOPE expressed his admiration of the
plan which- bad been proposed-. to the House. A more
just, a rciOre'simplei or a more certain plan, could not
,have been devised.--(Hear, hear.) Whether he regarded
the justice of the plan, in reference to the money market,
Its simplicity, as being divested of- all kinds of 'com-
plexity, or the certainty of its meetingwith general RC-
ceptance in the country, he thought the plan equally en-
titled to admiration.—(Cheers.) This was one of those
occasions on which party feeling should subside--7-(Hear,.
hear)-and lie congratulated the House and the Eight
Hon. Gentle Man on. the general concurrence which..the
.measurewas likely to receive.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS felt great pleasure in expressing
his unqualified• approbation of the plan which had just
been submitted to the House.---(Laughter and cheers.)
He:thought the plan was liberal, in the present state of
, the money market, to the holders of Three-and-a-Half
per:Cents. He regretted that the Right Hon. Gentlethan
had not pro Posed to reduce the interest on Eichequer
Bills to ild. instead of lid. per, day:, There had been
other periods of abundance of money which were as
transitory as. he feared this was likely to be. Prices
would sop rise,. the exchanges would turn against us,
and the state of things would be reversed.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON believed that the unusual
,:abundance of 'money was occasioned'by the distrust of
•Ithe British publie in foreign securities, especially 'North
American. lie expressed his grateful acknowledgments
to the Government :for the alterations- introduced by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer,- and he thought the
holders of Three-and-a-Half per Cents. would be much
better off than they had anticipated. He thought the
Right Hon, Gentleman had exercised a sound discretion
1. .in reducing the Three7and-a-Hulf per. Cents. one-fourth.
Mr. HAWES felt happy in expressing his satisfaction
4 ,at the proposition of the Government. With regard to
the..equalizatiou of the dividends, which were so inti-
tilmiopu(gmhtatnteleie. .arrangement
ue
hoped
ew as
1 mately connected with the financial affairs of this coun-
t: practicaltfi.' 'he
Righto n one
Hon.of great
Gen-
tleman fully appreciated the absence of anything like
.party feeling on that side of the House. When the Go-
sernment introduced measures of sound, practiCal
utility, they might depend upon it that Hon. Gen-
tlemen on his side of the House would give them their
entire
_support., lie - (Mr. Hawes) would on certain
questions avow himself and act as a party man; but when
any great public"measure was introduced,- party consi-
derations must at ono give way to the promotion of the
country's welfare:—(Hear.)
Mr. WARBURTON. thoroughly agreed inthe com-
mendation. which had been bestowed on the proposition
of the Government, but at the same time, it should not
be forgotten that it-was the IoW rate of profits which
enabled Ministers to make this proposition; and the low
rate of_ profits was, if there were any faith to be placed
in-the opinions_ Af, Mr, Ricardo .or Mr. Malthus, attri4
butable to the corn-laWs. .t-....1Z--`-.:aao.:c
Mr. BICARDO congratulated the Right Hon. Glen-
da= on the plan he had la#l before the House. Ile