The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-03 00:00:00

might come to another and interfere with those holding
field gardens.
Mr. COWPER begged to remind the Hon. Member
that those gardens were not to be regulated by parochial
linalts. However, he would have no ohjectio ito insert
the words " within such parish."
The clause with the amendment was then agreed to.
Oa the 9th clause being read,
Mr. ESTCOTT would wish to know if it was intended
to have paid surveyors ?
Mr. COWPER would wish to postpone deciding upon
that point for the present.
Mr. HINDLEY suggested, that due notice should be
served on occupying tenants, when land was about to
be taken.
Mr. COWPER had no objection to that suggestion
being complied with.
Mr. COLLETT said that with respect to the liability to
rating to the poor-rate, that persons possessing half an
acre were not to be rated.
Mr. MARK PHILLIPS was in doubt whether the
land when taken by the wardens or surveyors was to be
for a permanency or not. He confessed the point was
to him a great difficulty.
After some further conversation, the clause was agreed
to.

Clauses 10 and 11 were also agreed to.
On clause 12 being read,
Mr. BOUVERIE objected to the clause altogether.
He did not see why the power of devisi ig land fur 21
years should be given to these wardens.
A desultory conversation ensued, in which several
Members took part. The clause, however, was allowed
to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 13 was struck out.
Sir R. PEEL thought that the possession of small
portions of land by the labouring population would be
most beneficial to them. He would not stop to inquire
what the effect of such a system would be a hundred
years hence. He would rather look to the immediate
result of such a system, and that result, he believed,
would,be most beneficial to the classes more immedi-
ately interested. He would, therefore, support the mea-
sure of the Hon. Member fur Hertford.
Mr. BRIGHT believed that if the Bill were to pass it
would be inoperative.
Mr. WAKLEY thought the House was very much in-
debted to the Government for having given their sup.
port to this measure. He was very much surprised at
the Hon Member for Durham opposing the Bill, because
allotments of land to the poor must be the means of
increasing the food of the poor. There was gross in-
consistency in the course which had been taken by the
Hon. Member for Durham.
Sir R. PEEL would ask if be might give the Hon.
Member one piece of advice. It was, that if friendly
to the Bill, be should not at half-past ten at night raise a
discussion on the corn-laws.—(Laughter.) This clause
—together with the 16th—was then agreed to, awl
After a desultory conversation between Messrs.
Bright, Collett, and Darby, clauses 17, 18, 19, and 20,
were withdrawn.
Clause 21 was also passed without opposition.
Mr. BRIGHT inquired if, under clause 22, the Hon.
Member (Mr. Cowper) intended that women should be
eligible for the office of landwardens ?—(Laughter.)
Mr. COWPER could see no objection to the selection
of females who should be found competent.
Mr. BRIGHT stated his intention of withdrawing the
clause of which he had given notice respecting the kill-
ing of game.
Clause 23, and the preamble of the Bill, were then
passed without discussion, and the report was ordered
to be printed and brought up to-morrow (this day).
The House then resumed.
LUNATIC ASYLUM AND PAUPER LUNATICS
BILL.
On the motion of Lord ASHLEY, the House went
into Committee on this Bill, when
Mr. C. BERKELEY expressed a hope that the Noble
Lord would make some statement as to the objects of
the Bill, before they went into Committee.
Lord ASHLEY observed, that on a former occasion
he had occupied the House for upwards of an hour and
a quarter in explaining its objects ; at that time he went
fully into the details of the Bill, and he did not think it
necessary to say more at present.—(Hear, hear.)
Clauses 1,2, and 3, were then agreed to.
Clauses 5,6, and 7, were then agreed to.
On clause 8 being proposed,
A short conversation took place, in which Mr.
Henley, Lord Ashley, Sir James Graham, and Mr. S.
Wortley took part, respecting union workhouses being
used as lunatic asylums, Mr. Henley complaining that
the clause did not provide a sufficient authority for the
regulation of such establishments.
After an explanation from Lord ASHLEY on this
point,
Mr. WAKLEY objected to the using of workhouses
for lunatic asylums. He did not believe it was possible
to treat chronic cases of lunacy in such places, the
arrangements being altogether so imperfect. It was con-
temptible to speak of the expense of providing proper
accommodation for chronic patients in workhouses and
other places, when it was considered that the cost on the
poor-rate would not be more than a farthing in the
pound, and when it was considered that the unfortunate
patients were labouring under the the most painful of
all maladies.
Sir J. GRAHAM considered that the curable should
be separated from the incurable patients, as soon as pos-
sible after their admission. The clause gave the autho-
rities full power to effect those alterations which might
be rendered necessary for the accommodation of the pa-
tients, but expense ought not to be entirely disregarded.
Mr. WAKLEY would ask the Noble Lord if the con-
verting any part of the workhouses into lunatic asylums
would not be regarded as very hostile to the poorer
classes, and would it not be apt to bring the Legislature
of the country into very bad odour ? He was sure it
would, and the provision which enacted this, therefore,
was, in his opinion, very defective, and ought to be ex-
punged.
Lord ASHLEY said it would be the duty of the Com-
missioners to see that the internal regulations of these
asylums would not, in the slightest degree, interfere
with the other parts of the workhouses. It was calcu-
lated, too, that the appropriation of a portion of these
public buildings would save a considerable expenses
to the country ; and he trusted that they would
in ten years prove that they had not, as now, 17,500 lu-
notics, but something less than 10 000—perhaps less
than 8,000.

Mr. HENLEY did not object to Parliament adopting
means for securing the speedy cure of pauper lunatics,
but he was decidedly opposed to their doing it at the
expense of ether classes than those who were to be
benefited by their legislation.
Mr. HAWES and Mr. V. SMITH advocated a separa-
tion of the curable and incurable pauper lunatics con-
fined in the various asylums of the country, and
urged the Committee to adopt the views of the Hon.
Member for Finsbury.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM recommended the Noble
Lord who had charge of the Bill, so to modify the clause
as to require a separation of that part of the building, to
be coverted into a lunatic asylum, from that part to be
used and occupied as a workhouse.
Lord ASHLEY had no objection to adopt the recom-
mendation of his Right Hon. Friend, and the clause was
amended accordingly, and afterwards agreed to.
On the next clause being read,
Mr. M. GIBSON conceived that the town council
should have some controul over the money proposed to
be raised, and not to leave the entire controul of it to
the parties to whom the Bill now gave an irrespon-
sible power of making orders on the treasurer, which
the council would be compelled to find the funds to
meet.

Lord ASHLEY would have no objection, if the Hon.
Membcr would say what remedy he would propose.
Clause 26 was agreed to.
Clauses up to 40 inclusive were then passed without
opposition or discussion.

On clause 41 being put,
Mr. WAWN protested against the House proceeding
further at that late hour (one o'clock), especially as he
had great objections to that clause. He therefore moved
that the Speaker report progress.
The House resumed.

After a short discussion, in which Lord Ashley, Lord
Barrington, and Mr. Darby took part, each urging the
propriety of continuing,
Mr. WAWN consented to withdraw his motion on
condition that the consideration of that particular clause
be postponed.

The itst clause was postponed accordingly.
Clauses up to 43 were then agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. WAKLEY,
The CHAIRMAN reported progress and obtained leave
,o sit again on next Wednesday, at twelve o'clock.
The House then resumed.

SCIENTIFIC AND LITERARY SOCIETIES
BILL.

Mr. WYSE moved that the Bill be committed.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM was opposed to any eaten.
sion of the measure.

Mr. WARBURTON hoped that the Bill might be
abandoned.

After some desultory conversation clauses I and 2
were made part of the Bill, as were also clauses 3,4, 5,
and 6, and the Bill was ordered to be reported on Friday
next.