The Sun.
London, England, 1810-06-14 00:00:00

ing orderof the House,- that no Member should al./
lode to the speech of another which had been used
in a former debate. Its the course of his speed-) he
alluded to a representation made in one of the news.,
papers of Mr. Whitbread having been ill received at
at the dioner of the Liverymen..
Mr. WHITBREAD said, if the Hon. Member had
. been present at. the Meeting, he could have given a
more correct account of the_business thant hat whiCh
appealed in what is.denotninated one of the Minis-
terial Papers. , He had a cordial reception from the
Meeting, which had his grateful. thanks. He un-
derstood, in his absence, the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman-observed, that he was made a decoy-
duck of the party, in being asked to that entertain.
ment. He would not dispute the question of talents
With the Learned Gentleman, but he did not-think
so humbly of himself, that while he was represented'
as a dUcki he did not consider the Learned Gentle=
man a swan by comparison, but according to the
classification of birds lie thought him something be-
tween both. Mr. Whitbread then contended -at
home length that the petition ought to be received.
Mr. PERCEVAL contended on , the contrary, and,
remarked that the arguments' used by -the Hon.
Member Were precisely the same that he used when
the Middlesex Petition was presented.
• Mr. W. SMITH observed, that the proceedings
of Sir F. Burdett had been objeeted to, anti nor
his arguments; as this Petition then simply ap-,
proved of those arguments, lie did not think it should -
. t
be-rejeMed.
_ _

Mr. YOaKE thought that
,the subject had a right
to petition against all grievances; but at the same
time the House was justified in rejeEting those
which were disrespectful. He did not hesitate to,
vote for the rejection of this, inasmuch as it con-
tained an evPerice of a system gone abroad to de..
grade and undervalue the House, by presenting in-
sul:s in the . form of p;:titions. The petition did
not :state t hat-the representation- was rendered nomi-
nal by the Constitution, but by the proceedings Of
the House; this allegation lie de9med to be extreme-
,ly cli4respeotfut. The publication, iiself, of Sir F.
Burdett, subjected him to be committed to the
Tower. It had been said, that he .conccived the
Court of King's Bench to be a proper tribunal for
the question ; this he denied. What he said was,
that taking into consideration the delusion of the
'people with respett.to the privileges of the House,
he thought it to be a propitious circumstance that
an opportunity should offer of übiainiiig the opini-
on of -a Court of. Justice on, tk,..lsubjc.c. The law
of Parliament was part of the Law' of the Land—
heConceived the House to be -the best judge of its
,own privileges. In all cases 'of trespas,, the Judge
must look into the Record, and then, -as in this,
_decide whether it does, or does not, fall within the
priiileges of Parliament ; on this, principle he would
have given his assent to the Speaker's pleading to
-the aCtion. In this sense, only, he deemed the,
Court of king's Bench to be a proper tribunal for
the queStion.- '

Mr. W.WytegE decidedly differed ft-mil the Right
Honh Gentleman-in his opinion of the law of the
land and of ParFament. He held that' while. the
Court of King's Bench and House of Lords could
not shake, they could not confirin the pi ivileges cif
Parliament—nothing but an act of , the whole Le-
zislature could affect either of them. With respe&
to the Petition, he thought it contained many int-
-proper expressions,---lie therefore would certainly
vote against its reception. .
Mr. WHITBREAD explained.
The House then divided, when there appeared--

For the Petition
Against it

ajority "
The Petition was of course reieEted.

-47

PRIZES AND CAPTURE OF VESSELS.

Lord COCHttANE, previous' to his bringing forWaed
the motiOrt of which he. gave notice, moved that
there should be laid before the House accounts of
the net, proceeds el Danish ships brought into port
before the commencement of hostilities with-Den-
mark, and of ' the net proceeds of Dutch vessels
taken before Nov. 5, I 796.—Ordered.
The Noble Lord then .addressed the .House on the
subject and neture- of his motion ; he, was aware
that it would be opposed by the Right Hon: Gee-
denten oppOsite, and by the Heads of the-Admiralty
He eetertd into a variety of seitementse illustrative
of the present situation of British and Foreign
Trade. In the course -of the three last years our
home trade was decreased, as the numbers 51 to 171
or one twentieth,. and a little more annually, and
thise hot withstanding thecommunicet ion- with Spain
being opened: The mariners of the Continent had
increased in thesame period from 23.t0 29,000. In.
the British trade the, tonnage has fallen as 37 to 25,
or one third. The foreign trade has increased-from
4 i 7,euo to 560,000 tons. Our imports and •
ports are equal to. the inward foreign tonnage
alone. All these evils did not result from the net-
chinations, of Buouaparte, but from our own bad
colleens. He was of opinion, that if half of the force
of the Kingdom was properly employed, the sear
would be concluded in twelve months. He
thought that no Minister should rescind the reve-
nue-arising \ to. the Crown from war, hut if the
.Droits of the Admiralty and of the Crown wele con-
tinued they ought, to,be applied to the purposes of -
l
the State and not-of corruption. He adverted to
the Bill now in the Hocse for securing to the Chan-
cello►• of the Exchequer and his brother. the office-of
Registrar of the Admiralty ; he was far, however,
trout attributing any improper motive to this.. He
did not deem it either. very satisfactory or useful,
that of the one thousand vessels now floating
on the ocean, the Admiralty should be ac-
quainted with the situation of each ; a stimulus
was unnecessary to call forth
,the spirit' of the
Navy, Out he thought that prizes should be
_justly
and honestly appropriated,; if this system was once
establtslAid, the commerce of .the coast of France;
would soon. cease. Having stated these prelimina-
ries, he now should en:er into a detailed proof of
transactions, similar to which had been seldom-t
brought before the'House. He first read the order
of reprisals, authorizing the capture of the slips of
the enemy, and subjecting those who. neglected so
to do to costs in damages in the.Couri of Admiralty.
He wished the House to be acquainted with. the na-
ture of the office of tee King's Proetor, it any cause
of complaint exists against him, it is wily b►. him that

coritplaint cab be Made to the Judge. The i'iroble
Lord then read a nualber of ACts for encouraging the
duty .and exertion of the_ Navy,- and pro&eded to
statethe opinion of the Judges in the titneol Queen
Aone, on 'the subjeer of prizes, which was that all
vessels taken in her Majesty's name should be law-
fully shared, arid the captors .have a libel ty Of going
into Courr, and to be alloWed their own Counsel.
Atter this a person of the name of Stanitorth, a
proctor, made use of his interest to obtain an Order
of Coupcil, to employ him„ one 'individual, for the
management of all the captors claims, thus uniting
in , one the interests of the King and of his cli-
ents, and, aCiing for both in a, double capacity,
which was contrary to the law. Tne Courts,
of Law admit captors, entitle them to insurance,
and making them liable to costs and damages. With.
respect to the discharge of the duty of King's Proc-
tor as it now stands, whatever might be the exer-
tion of an individual, it was impossible to transact
the business in a proper way. It appeared from do-
cuments in his possession, that on the 3d of June,
806, the Prodor had 16 causes on his hands, on the
'3oth 23 ; and on the igth November, 5.9 ; in this
case, no one could confide their interests with
safety in such a person. He never in his lite
sent into the Court of Admiralty a neutral ves-
sel ; there were many instances of its being dune,
but it was on as bad, speculation. He then en-
tered largely into the case of W. Moyer, Whom .he
stated to tie _a British subjea, and a naturalized Dane,
he had an affidavit of Staniforth's, declaring this
man to be a faithful and loyal bubjett,, yet at the
same tithe he could adducb documents to. prove that
this Moyer had received the thanks of the French
Commissary of Marine for his services in the last
war—this was the faithful subject.- He rei,eated,
that he "Poss.-ssed &contents to proie Moyer 'a trai=
tor, still he was reported as an object worthy of re-,
muneration. The Droits of the Admiralty amounted
to eleven millions Sterling, a sum which he thought
to be mischievous in the hands of the Crown, this.
was not so even in.. Spain. He concluded,. by mov7 •
ing the following Resolutions.;-Ist, Resolved,
That the officers and seamen of the. Navi, are in=
titled to the support and encouragement' of- this
House:-2u, That it appears from an Orde, of CQUII-
Cil, in the reign of Queen Ann,lBos, that the captors
of ships lied leAye.to gy into Court, and were altoW-
ed their own Coons 1.-30, It appears that this was
Superseded March 'eo, • 1779,.'and that the King's
Proctor was intrustol with the management of all,
That it isessetitially requisite for the interests
of the Nay that the captors shotild come into Court,
iind to employ such Advocotes as they should -think
Proper.—.sth, Th4t leave should be given to bring
in a Bill fur regulating
,the proceeding of the Court
of Admiralty.
On the first Reaolution being put,
Sir JOillsi NICHOLS' expressed hi, regret that these
Papers had been laid before the Huuse, 'though, the
charges haling bzen brought, he had thought i: his
'duty to acquiesce in their production, that there
might be. some doeurnents to justify their cooduCt.
He contended that the sum ado wed to .Mr. Moir
was perfectly just,fiable, as no condeMnation could
have taken tiace without 'the necessary itiformatiun
he 'gave. The Learned Member here went into ;a
detail of the transaetiun, and real large extracts
.floin the Correspondence between Mr. Moir and
our Government ; the conclusion of which was, that
the cargoes could not have been proved to be French
property without , the assistance of Mr. Moir, and
could not there-tote. haye been condemned. The
cargoes consisted at masts, and other naval
stores, purporting- to, be neutral, proverty, and n ere
intended to .assist.in the equipment of the flotilla,
destined at that titre to act against this country. It
was, iherelore, Of 'the utmost consequence to" the
.country- interrte't these cargoes, though the means
of proVing thent—not neutral property depended
wholly on ~Moir'S information. The eapterse he
contended, could not complain, as no condemnation
would otherwise have•taken place; and instead of
70 or 80,0001. at the rate of 701. per cent. they
could have received. nothing. Instead of gaining,
had ,it not been for the King's Proctor acting in
this way, the captors might have been brotight in for
damages: By the ihfortieation eflorded, the captors •
were enabled' to act without risk.

Mr. STEVEN regretted the exposure also that there
Tad .been ot the transactions reterr(Al to.. ou account
of the person implicated, who migiit himselt, or
fathily, if ever iu the power ot the entniy, feel from
it the greatest inconvenience. The imporiance of
intercepting naval: stores was evident, and he had
never heard, nor had the Nonle Lord stated, Ali:it
any of the: captors were clissattsfied. He vindicated

the character and conduct ut Learned and Right
Hon. Friend, who tubteati of pursuing eagerly the
the emoluments of office, had instead of t 5,0001. a-.

year, accepted of an office of not more than 2,5001.
a-year. With respect. IQ the tio,t.anc.l„second reso.
lotions, he wished to move the prefii; que.stion.—
The third and fourth he would directly negative;
and with respect to any Bid, he cOtitellued that such
a'rneasure was • useless. As the papers,' howev.r,
had been laid on the table, and had satistie.i, he
trusted, every Member that the complaints, were un-
founded, he should move, thatit be tfieopinion of
the House that the conduct and pioceedihss of his.
Maje,ty's Law Officers belonging to the cUurt of
Adntiraity, in the instances alludecOo, were si..eh as

. deserved. the approbation of the Hou,se. .
.„ .
Lord COCHRANE relined at great length, aud'point,.
ed out a variety of instances in ..ihich the w hole

emoluments of the capture wire engrosNed ;by tne
Prdcfor.,and Agents, leaving twiliihg to: be oistri7'
bated among the caplors. This, be ,complaitied;
was particularly the case with resi.ea.to the enemy's
privateers, which was one reason that. tl:ey were
suffered to remain so numerous, any, Oilker b, Mg -
likely. to be, a loser by attempting
,tos cdlii ui e them.
He complaittecl also of the Pro,aor's partner being
permitted w act in behalf of .the per,Lons whose
sels were seized, witilelne Proctor himself under..

took the cause of did captor, haying thus untanly
the evidence on both siu,s before thOn. With rt
spLet. to Moit'sriniUrtnatiun, 'he asked the Learned'

JUdge if he had twined his deierwination tiom that'
oi, tt he had not rather given hits de.!
cision Without khowing an thing ut the corresp.,n
deuce
.? If su, widch the. Learii,d Ju,,ge cou,d not
deny, it wa, unfair that the captors • should be wade
losers of 30 per cent. for hitothralion which was