The Sun.
London, England, 1844-07-09 00:00:00

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lion. and Gallant Officer, he had to state that her Ma-
jesty's Government had already taken measures to place
such an amount of naval force in the Mediterranean as
would be sufficient to protect British interests in that
part of the world should their interests be at all menaced.
Mr. C. WOOD said the question of his Hon. and Gallant
Friend ( Sir C. Napier) was not whether it was the intention
of the Government to increase the naval force in the Mediter-
ranean, but whether it was the intention of the Government to
increase the naval force of the country ? It was the constant
practice of the present Government when in opposition, to up-
braid her Majesty's Government with the paltry amount of the
naval force—with the weakness shown upon the seas in com-
parison with other Powers, and with the defenceless condition
of our coast. But never had the Whigs left the shores of Eng-
land—de interests of England—so utterly at the mercy of the
foreigner as they were now left by the Tory Government, by
the crippled state in which they allowed the British navy to re-
main. Lie asked the Government, then, if it was their inten-
tion to put the naval force of the country le such a condition as
to command confidence at home and respect abroad?
Sir R. PEEL said he would not give any answer to the
question. Her Majesty's Government were responsible for
the safety of the country—for the honour of the country ; and
whenever one or the other were endangered, they would have
no have no hesitation whatever in instantly coming down to
Parliament, and asking for the amplest means of repelling pro-
vocation.—( Hear, hear.) He had been used unfairly, for the
notice given to him by the Gallant Officer was simply whether
it was the intention of the Government to increase the naval
force in the Mediterranean.
Lord PALMERSTON said there was no ground at all for
complaint on the part of the Government, especially when
their attacks of the year 1838 were remembered. In his
opinion, a Government ought always to be ready to state the
amount and distribution of the forces of the country, and
whether increase was intended or not. The amount
of the naval force of England was less now than
ever it was, and it was the duty—the absolute duty
—of the Government—to satisfy Parliament that it would
be so strengthened and increased as to be prepared for any
emergency that might arise.—( Cheers.)
Sir R. PEEL said, the proceeding altogether was a most
unfair one. Why, even if he had had notice of a question,
whether or not he was going to increase the naval estimates,
he would not have answered that question. Every question
that he had had notice of, and it was proper to answer, he had
answered. But beyond that he would simply repeat what he
had before said, that her Majesty's Government was respon-
sible for the honour of ;the country, and were not likely to
shrink from the obligations which office imposed upon them.
Lord HOWICK utterly denied the unfairness complained of,
and it was absolutely ridiculous, coming from a quarter where
so little of punctiliousness had been shown in former days.

RAILWAYS BILL.
Mr. GISBORNE said he rose not to continue the dismis-
sion which, perhaps, had gone far enough at that moment, but
to offer some observations before the Speaker left the chair,
upon the Bill for the regulation of railways, which they were
that night called upon to read for a second time. The Right
Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade could
not have failed to observe that, from the moment his Bill had
been 'brought fOrward, opposition had sprung up against it, and
that opposition had so increased and strengthened as to justify
him (Mr. Gisborne) in saying that rho-. whole railway world
was in decided array against it. He was far from saying that
the present laws regulating railways were perfect, but better
far have their imperfections than such regulations as _the Bill
then before the House would impose. He might certainly
carry the measure, backed as he was by the power of Govern-
ment, but no measure passed hostilely would ever work well,
or tend to the,good conduct of railways. He therefore hoped
the Right Hon. Gentleman would withdraw the .Bill for the
present session; and save him from: the necessity of dividing
the House upon it. If the Right Hon. Gentleman could not,
or would•not, do this, he should move that the Bill be read a
second tinie.that day six months.
Mr.- C. RUSSELL said he would vote for the adjournment.
Railway corripanies felt that they had not been fully and fairly
heard before the House, and he was of that opinion too. Every
advantage had been withheld from them, and every obstruction
thrown in their way. Every advantage was. taken by the
Government in the examination of witnesses, and railway
companies were excluded from the investigation contrary to
custom and to precedent. Notirithatanding all the pains which
the Government had taken to force their scheme, their case had
completely broken down, even according to -the testimony of
their own witnesses. The whole proceedings were based on a
principle of reciprocal interest, which was necessary in order
to obtain support. The President'of the Board of Trade ad-
mitted that his scheme had failed, and up to- a few days before
the Committee had closed its labours, the Right- Hon. Gent!e-
man had not determined upon any, particular plan of operation.
On behalf of the railway companiesi, who were perfectly unani-
mous in opposing this Bill, he offered his most decided opposi-
tion to . it.. Universal alarm had been felt regarding
the scheme proposed by the Government, and a.- deputationx
consisting of some- tof • -the largest railway proprietors
in England, waited upon the Right Hon. Baronet at the head
of the GoVerrment. but their proposal was rejected. On be-
half..ot all. the railways in the• kingdom—on behalf of one hun-
dred millions of property—he begged of the House to give them
time to consider this important measure before Parliament. The
evidence, which was so voluminous, had not been on the table
longer than since the middle of June, and had not been perused
even by the Ministers themselves. Was the House prepared
even to discuss the propriety of so important a change in rail-
way speculation ? They • asked for! time till the,early park of.
next session to consider this Bill, and he hoped the House would
not refuse the prayer.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said he did not think the lion. Member
for Nottingham had well considered his motion ; for the effect of
it would be a refusal to entertain or even consider the measure.
The Bill must be first explained to the House and to those out
of doors who had petitioned the House in such numbers. The
Bill proposed to the House had the sanction of the Govern-
ment and of the Railway Committee, and was, in fact, grounded
upon the reports of Railway Committees. He felt that it would
be necessary to explain the objects'and nature of the Bill.
Mr. HAWES stid he did not think it had been reasonable to•
promise an opinion upon the Bill when the ,body of evidence'
that had been laid on the table of the House bad not been
perused. Since the evidence had been, laid upon the table,
various most important measures had been under the considera-
tion of the House. They had been discussing a Joint-Stock
Company's Bill, a Bank Charter Bill, and other most im-
portant subjects. Besides, he did not think the Right Hon.
Baronet at. the head of the Government had acted fairly by
them, for on a previous occasion he said the House should be
very cautious how they interfered with existing railway com-
panies. He thought the Vice-President of the Board of,
Trade had failed to make out a case to resist the motion of the

Hon. Member for Nottingham..
Mr..COLQUHOUN said he thought it Would be wrong to
refuse to enter into the discussion at present ; however,
he must say, that they had not as yet sufficiently; pe-
rused the,- report of the Cominittee. He considered the
present step a most dangerous one, and one unprecedented in
the history of British Legislature, transferring althost all the
power from private capitalists to Government, and yet 'that •
same Government had refused to interfere With factory labour
on the very, same principle oii which they now attempted to act.
The idea of passing such a Bill at such a period of the selision.
was absurd, and the provisions of the 'Bill Were most unfair,.
injurious, and of an unprecedentednature.
Mr. WALLACE said he believed the railway interest' had'

come down to that House for the purpose of stopping the !pro- _
gress of this Bill upon-Abe ground that the Legislature at--
tempted to interfere between railway companies and the public.
The Railway Committee upon which the report on the table
was founded was composed for a great part of railway capitalists,
and a'great number of witnesses were examined on behalf of"
the railway interest. He protested against those Hon. Mem--
bers who were directly interested in railway speculations',
voting on this Bill. He would support-the leconctreading.'
MX-. GISBORNE was averse to'discussing the 'Bill at so
late a period of the session, and before Hon. Members had time
to peruse the evidence. • '
Mr. H. I-lINDE denied, in, the most Positive manner, that
the railway interest 'had, in 'any way, attempted to obstruct the
Bill of the Goirernment, but due time had not been given for
the consideration of the evidence. If the Right Hon.. Gentle-
man wouhtpostpone the decision on the measure till next ses-
sloe, lie would offer no opposition to a full discussion, and
second reading of it (hiring this session. At the same tune,
even if the Government persevered, he.would offer it no unfair
opposition.
, Mr. LABOUCHERE said the question now before the
House was not whether it should'affirm the principle of the Bill,
but whether there was anything in its nature to prevent its
diicassion in the present session: He thought they Should dis-
cuss the measure, fully during the present session. The men-
'lure was, 'as Muir ' the offspring of the Committee as
of the Government, and" he would vote for its second
reading, It had been 'said. that the evidence on the
table. had' not' been fully ' known or promulgated,
but according to 'the statements of railway companies them-.
selves they seemed fully acquainted with the evidence, and
with every principle the Idillintroduced, and they' gave it their
unqualified condemnation. He did not think the interests of
the_coinpanies and those of the publics were distinct and sepa-
rate, hut were altogether identical. He-thought the Bill be-
fore the House would be eminently beneficial to both. He
hoped they would now proceed to discuss the Bill in the usual
way, and trusted the Hon: Gentleman would not press his
motion to a division.
Sir R. PEEL said he' thought there was a growing opinion
among the public that railway companies were becoming mo-
nopolies. The Hon. Member was still worse than the Athe-
nian, for, the Athenian said " Strike, but hear," but the Hon.
Member would strike but refuse to hear. Must there not be
something very error.eous in the system when the Hon. Mem-
ber for Nottingham moved that the Order of the Day be read,
merely because his Right Hon, Friend, the Vice-President.of
the I3oard of Trade; had attempted to explain the principles of
the measure to the House? The object of the Government
was to-prevent undue exaction and to make these great public
concerns as beneficial both ton the-capitalists and to the public as'
"possible.' It had been said that the present period of the ses-
sion was too late to introduce any measure on the sub-
ject of railways, but they had had . sixty new
applications for railways during the present session,
and they would in all probability hale sixty more.
He could never believe that the House of Commons would so.
far protect and shelter monopoly, as to prevent his Right Hon.
Friend, the representative of the Government, from explaining
the objects and nature of the Bill. The Government, he re-
peated, had and could have no other object in viewbut the pub-
lie good. They offended a large and influential body of capi-
talists, many of their strenuous supporters, so that they must,
at all events, get credit for perfect disinterestedness- Again,
the Government only adopted the suggestionsand recommenda-
tions of the Committee ; they were, in short, only carrying out
their reconmendations, and acting in accordance with the evi-
dence brought before them. Until the four tellers declared at
the tabled that House 'that the motion of the Hon. Member:
opposite warsiiccessful, he never could believe that the power of
monopoly was so strong in the House of Commons, as to refuse,
not only to pass a useful measure, but to deprive the Govern,
nienCof the power of explaining its principles, nature, and ob-
jects. All the Government wished was a full, fair, and impar-
tial discussion ; they would be ready to hear suggestions from any
Hon. Member, and give them their best consideration. The
sort •of strategy which had been resorted to by railway
'directors was rather of an unusual description. The Right,
Hon. Gentleman read a circular front the railway directors
which had been received by a grocer at Deptford, requesting
of him, as an elector, to request of his representative to give
the Government Railways Bill all the opposition in his power;
but the grocer replied that if he had a vote himself he would
give it in favour of the Government measure, so that the rail,—
way directors did not further impress on this individual the,
necessity of communicating his opinions to his representative.
( A laugh.) No ; let 'the measure-be judged upon its merits
and utility, and by that test the Government was prepared, to
abide.— (Cheers. )
Mr. R. YORKE recommended the Hon. Member for Nets
tingham to withdraw his motion.
"Mr. GISBORNE 'then withdrew his motion.
Several petitions against the Railways Bill were presented
from various railway companies.
i• Mr. GLADSTONE then rose to move the second reading
of the Bill. He sail that this was not a question of party, on
which the Government could appeal to the sympathy of their
supporters. Everything that could be done to throw
opposition in the way of this Bill had been adopted on the
part of, many of the railway companies in the country.
The statements, however, upon ,which, that opposition was
founded. were all et , variance with facts. Ne Bill that had
-ever come before Parliament had eser, met •_with,greater mitt-
representation. So anxious were the boverireeril to secure
to railway companies a full and fair representation in the Com-
mittee, that four gentlemen were appointed on that Commit-