The Sun.
London, England, 1828-06-10 00:00:00

31 -

Civil Authority. If he were asked what was the danger
be apprehended? he fairly confessed, that at this moment
he apprehended very little—(hear)—but at some future pe-
riod it was impossible te say whether a Foreign Potentate
might not find it itsinterest.to sow dissensions, and will-
ing instruments might then be found in a body then less
respectable than he believed the Priesthood at present to be.
The influence of the Roman Catholic Priests over their
flocks must, from the very nature of their doctrines, be at
all times very great ; and it seemed to him madness to give
Political power to those who are looking fur temporal advan-
tages to Riiman Catholics, and for spiritual advancement
t) the Pope. If the Noble Marquess (Lansdowne).should-
hereafter snake, any proposition regarding securities, he,
for one, should be most happy to give them all fair conside-
ration ; but, until.those securities were provided, be should
be under, the, necessity of .perseveriog in his vote against
concession.'

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE explained on some point
respectiug a Catholic establishment, in foreign countries,
lint We Were unable to hear his Lordship at all"dietinetly.
Earl BATHURST began by stating the particular quet-
thin before'the Houie. The proposition Was, to consider'
the laws affecting the Romau Catholics, and no man
would suppose.that the Commons,isi passing it, only meant
in the terms that they would "'take the laws. into con-
sideration." What hail tey, in. fact, done for the last
twenty.six years, but " take the laws into eensideratien,"
and the real object was to adopt " a final and conciliatbry
adjustment." What, then 'was to he concluded front 'the
Vote to which the Commons bad agreed?:---that they
meant to give a solemn pledge to accomplish the adjust-,
ment so far as their legislative powers would enable them to
go. What then was the purpose of the Nobleyarqu:s in
bringing forward the subject here, but to' induce the House
of Lords to adept the same resolution, and'thereby to
give the same pledge? Now his (Lord Bathurst's)
objection was, that he would riot give a pledge unless he
bad some assurance that it was iu his piwer to redeem it.
Of course, nothing could he done without securities, and
the Noble Marquess Lad given no inforination that he-was
in possession of any plan with that object, and he bad
given no intimation that he was prepared to. fellow up the
Reiollition by any ulterior measure. Looking at what had
been the course adopted by the other House of Parliament,'
and at the:measures which, on thia.sUbject had emanated
from it, he inust 'say 'that he despaired; at present, that
their Lordships would be able, if they 'incautiously gave
the pledge, satisfactorily to redeem it. Without going
' back to the different schemes from. time to time in agit-ae
tion, he would only refer to the last, the Bill of 1825;
which had met with the support of the Noble Marquess.
tie was anxious that their Lordships should recollect its
provisions, and then ask themselves this smestion—Whee
titer, it 'previomi to its introduction, the. Houee of Com-
mons littd passed the ResolutiOn'he had before read, and
the Noble Marquis had persuaded their LordshipS to con-
cur in it, and thereby to give a pledge, they would not
consider that pledge redeemed by the measure of 1825,
.when brought up from the other House, and submitted to'
'their 'deliberation 7 He did not wish to fatigue their'
Lordship by going, through the pro Visions of, the BM-Tr
1825 ;' but he would direct attention to someepart of it.'
According to that Bill, a Commission was to he established,
and that Commission appointed by the Crown, iihd when
any %die, Dispensations, or instruments of any kind (foi
there was to be no limitation) were transmitted from the
See of Rome, it was to 'be submitted to thet Commission,
which was to ascertain whether there was any thing in' it
subversive' of publiC tranquillity, or injurious to the Pro-
t,estant Establishment. If found unobjectionable, then the
receipt of such a document was•to be notified to the Lord
Lieatenant of. Irelaude but the Commissioners were not
required to inform hiM of the contents of the instrument,'
but simply to notify to him that such an instrument had
been transmitted, with their opinion that it was not inju-
rious nor dangerous. Then the instrument was to be sent
back, and afterwards it was to be published and carried
into execution. Thus, if that Bill hail passed, it would
have been made the law of the land-Lthat the instrument
might not only be polished, but carried into execution.
before'the Crown hail ever seers it or given its sanction to
it. After the Lord Lieutenant had inspected it, ' and
knew its contents, however perilous they might be to the
tranquillitfof the State, and the security of the Pro •
teetant Church, still by law the Catholics might have de-
manded that the instrument should have been carried bite'
strict execution. Such was the nature of the measure as
it respected documents. of every _ kind transmitted from
Rome. Thus he effect, these Commissioners were • to be
the guardians of the Protestant &Aabli,lunint in Church
and State. Then who were to be the Ctnnini4ianera? for,
under sueheireurnstane the choice of them was a mattee
of some importance. It 'would be expected that the Crown
would have the nomination of the Commissioners, and
that it would at least take care that the Majoay were Pro-
testants: But what was the fact? The Crown was ac-
tually prohibited from appointiug a single Protestant as a
Member of the Commission. The mere fact of hie being
a Protestant was a disqualification for hOldingThis office;
so that in a Bill professedly to remove Catholic disqualifi-:
cations from' holding civil Offices, a new civil office is
created, to fill which.a Protestant is slisqualified.-(Hear.)
-=Who, then were these inspecting Commissioners? The
Crown was prohibited from
.naming any Protestant, and
it was also prohibited from naming any Catholic, even
though a Peer. No layman of the Catkolic persuasion
' could sit upon this Commission. Bishops only were to be
the members of it, so that Roman Catholic Bishops were
to be the guardians of the Protestant Church.—(Hear.)—
He would appeal, then,, to their lordships, whether the
enactment of such a law would haVe teaded, in the terms
of the Resolution of the House of Commons, to give " sta-
bility to the Protestant, Establihnient ?"—(Clicers.
Then we Dome to the next question,, as to the appointment
of Roman Catholic BiShops. If time COMmissieners are to
be Roman Catholic Bishops, it seemed:reasonable' that-the
Crown of these realists should have at least some coritroul in
the nomination of those Bishops. What was the fact under the
law of 1825 ? After a priest had been elected, and afterwards
appointed by the See of Rome to, be a Roman Catholic
Bishop, the name of the party was to be traurnitted to
the Commissioners, :and they were to Certify
.to the Kiug
that he was a loyal subject, and then he was authorised by
the Bill to exercise alkhe functions of a Roman‘ Catholic
Bishop, however the Crown might disappirove'd his ap-
pointment. He was well aware he be told that
all these objections proceeded from antiquated and ex-
ploded notions, and that there was, in truth, no danger to
be apprehended. The Noble Marquess had advised the House
to look to other countries, and to observe how well the
machinery worked, and how easily the object might be ac-
complished. There; he said, Protestant~ and• Roman Ca-
tholics lived together in the utmost confidence and hamony.
Undoubtedly in Holland, Roman Catholics were admitted to
all civil efliees—no man was disqualified, and all might sit
in the Legislative Assembly; and the peaceauti harmony were
attributed merely to the circumstance 'of this community of
privilegei Looking at Holland, what wits the fact ? The
Kingdom of the Netherlands wasedivided into two parts-..
the one Protestant, the other Roman Catholic. In that part
where the Peotestants were most numerous, the Pretestant
religion was dominant ; but where the Catholics were most
numerous, the Roman Catholic' religion Wes dominant.
liad not'this been the case, did the NOble Marquis, or did
the House, ieeppose that the boasted harmony would have
prevailed? Would the Roman Catholics have been satisfied
and tranquil even with seats in the Legislative Assembly, if
their religion had not been dominant in' that part of the
Netherlaede where they outnumbered their. opponents ?
The same Telnark would' apply to Prussia i for in Silesia,
where the 'Roman CatholiCa Were most numerous, their re-
ligion was the established religion of the country. Paseing
over the Atlantic, the Noble Marquis had directed the at-
tepticnt of the /100!, to the United States of America, as
if he Wished this country tq ittlitattt e*antl-11e, True
it was that these was uo establishment in the United States ;
but was the ,House prepared to say that there should be
no establishment in Ireland—(llcer hear hear)?—Why
did there exist such an enmity to the Church of England,'
and sushi a wielm on. the part of the Roman Catholics that
it should not continue the established religion in Ireland?
Tliere was eoinething in the Possum catholic religion which
prevented its combioation with any Other faith ; and it was
well le '
nown that if the Chnrcli of 'Thigland were not to
Cm-16'611e the F,stablislied't ISich of Irefend, the Protestant
interest of the empire would lie 7•liaken its centre...e
(Hear; hear.).--1t Was inteterov'eu'ith'ilie ef
LLO cijßl4i'i, and the preteatent :Chp'rcli and the State must
stain) Or fall together. For hie part, he ehoidd rejoice if
the time should entitle when it might be safe and wise to
accomplish the object of the Noble Marquis; but as lie at
present saw no chance that the pledge of the. House of
Commons would be redeemed, lie was unwilling that the
fisn of Lords should also enter into giiecei-,ement which
Unable ,
' The Marcinis of LANSDOWNE felt it necessary to say
a few wiirde, to rescue hinasellfroin one of the grossest,
though no doubt unintentional misrepresentations to which
m ww ppyrtblg 0. b `4lll).etecl. ''}'he 4oli:e Ear; apitad
that ink Marquie Of tanadowne) hind led the'attention
of the House to.' the Conclitioirof the United States of
Arrietica, hie tit purpoeeedintitetioP• If here was mimic
point more than anbther upon which he liad been. careful
to giunel hiniSelf 'from tetierepresentiitim, it wee that. Ile
& had men the attention of clip Htiluse to the ltnitcel State's
of A sueiica, where there was no esteblishment, in order to
show, that if Roman Catholics . were mischievously ' dis-
posed, that Circumstance gave them an advantage which
Lthey did not possess elsewhere, If the Noble Prl thought

' that the Aimee of our established religion afforded facili-
ties to Roman Catholics, it wait hard that it should be im•,
puted to him (Lord Lansdowne) that lie had promulgated
a different opinion.- He: bad called the attention-of the
House to America; "not fur the,purpose of imitation, but for
the sake of argument.. For the sake of example, he had
led the Rouse to the cousideAtion of the state of European
countries, with different establishments, Protestant,
theran, rind Calvinistic, which were flourishing, noturith-.
standiug Roman Catholics were admitted to the enjoyment
of civil offices.

Earl DARNLEY should have deemed it almost inspedi-
_nen t
_for him- to -hate addressed :the Houk:" is this trite
though important subject, bet foe some of the ohservatioes,
of the Noble Earl (Bathurst.) The Noble Earl had spoken
as if the point to be decided were not the Reialution of
thie Session, but the. Bi/leofelBls. kik (Lord Darnley)
-eitteeated their Lordships to consider whether, of the three
modes pointed out by the Noble Marquess, it could adopt
any'but one. There was, indeed, a class of persons in this
country, but more especially in Ireland, upon whom all
argument would be thrown away-who were detertnined,
Whatever might be said, to deny to their Catholic felloes-
Subjects the privileges of the Constitution : others, who
had been long conscientiously opposed to concession, were
now Willing to give way if any sufficient security could be
pointed out. On this point be (Lead Darnley) could Say,
now mast sincerely, as he said on the debate on the Test
and Corporation Acts, that the beet security was conees-
s.on : cenditional, in the first case, according to the Bill'
offered to the House, ,and unconditional, in the list case,
relying upon the fidelity and loyalty of the Roman Catholics.
But' although that was and always had been hia, (pinion,
' he was ready to meet half way those who thought that securi-
ties were emesSary. It was the business, however, of these
who required securities to show the degree and . nature of
the danger. He hoped, nevertheless, that .better times
would ere long arrive,andhe augured well, more especially
troin the liberal spirit recently displayed by the Right
Rev. Bench, and particularly by the, Right Rev. Prelate
now in his place, who en a recent occasion had told, in so
many words, that in his judgment there was no reason why
any set of Christians should be deprived of the civil bene-
fits of the• Constitution if they could give sufficient secu-
rity for the establishment! He was sure their-Lordships
.would find the difficulties. which now beset then' as to Iree
land increase—they would press on them more and more;
and a time might come when the claims of the Catholics
would be enforced. His Noble Friend had wisely abstained
froth entering into any irritating topics, and he 'should
follow his example; but.there was one subject to ,which
the Catholics frequently referred with strong feelings—he.
meant the violation of the Treaty of Limerick. He; for
one, thought that Treaty had been violated, and he was
• prepated to show that it had; but the question did not rest
on what had happened a century ago, or on what was then
the stateof the country ; it was to be decided by the rule of
present policy, and by the circumstances of the present
moment. If granting these claims were not consistent
with justice, with sound policy, and with the precepts of
"the Christian religion, ,he would argue it on the ground of
'expediency tilorie-lie would also coutend it was both right
and just. Passing over, however, the Treaty of Lime-
rick, as one of the grounds on which the claims of the
Catholics might be justly founded, he would mention an-
other circumstance. It hood been stated, and stated pub-
licly, that at the Union with Ireland, he would not say
a pledge or guarantee had been given—though he had
heard these words in that House—hut he would say, that
there was an understanding with Mr. Pitt and Lord
Coinwallis, that Eneancipetion should form a part of- the
Union. It was proVed very distinctly by Mr. Pitt's votes
and actions; and above all, by his giving up more power
than ever a Minister of this country possessed, because he
could not carry that measure that lie had always desired.
He was surprised therefore that, persons met annually 'to
celebrate his birth-day by Pitt Clubs, who were opposed
to his opinions, and who !sought by these means to give to
their men priaciples the sanction of Mr. Pitt. (Hear,
hear.) It was impossible for him to refer to what hap-
'petted in another place, but he, saw with astonishment—
and who could see with indifference?-,that the Ministers
of the Crown attended at Pitt Clubs. It might be called
I •
I a Pitt Club; but be did not know what that meant; it
would be better to call it en Orange,Club, or an Eldon
Club ; for to imply, by calling it a Pitt Ciub; that Mr. Pitt
I was opposed to the Catholics, :was to' libel the memory of
that great man. In justice to the memory of Mr. Pitt-,
injustice to the cause he advocated, he must protest against
bringing the authority of Mr. Pitt 'to support the excite-
Side of the Catholics. lie. saw a Noble Friend neut. him
(the Marquis of Wellesley was 4tting on the Opposition
benches), Who koew better than he. did Mr. Pitt's sentie
inente on that subject. There was another point frequently:
adverted to elsewhere, though' it had always appeared to
him that no arguments Were weaker than those which
went to exclude the Catholics on account of the Corona-
tion Oath. • -There was nothing is that Oath which could
poesibly preclude the (Sovereign granting any civil privi-
leges he pleased to any class of his Majesty's subjects. This
WAN Mr. Burke's opinion. It was also Lord Liverpool's
opinion, as his Lordship had stated it the last tilde this
measure was discussed. The Noble Earl had stated, that
the Coronation Oath was not an obatable to the removal
of the Catholic disabilities. There was another authority,
even' better than those he had already referred to, and the
book in which it was contained he would advise thoca-
stholics te_print in a cheap form, and circulate all over the
kingdom--he meant the work of Dr. Phiipott, whe,•while •
he meant to serve his own Church, had effectually promoted
the cause of the Catholics. This gentleman was the ad-
vanced guard of the Church Militant, but his arms had turned
against himself. His Lordship then quoted Lord Kenyon's
opinion, and Mr.. Pitt's opinion of the Coronation path
from Dr.- Philpntt's pamphlet. In these opinions he saw
not one word to prove that the Coronation Oath prevented
the_King.frone acceding to the claims of his Catholic sub-
jects. Mr. Pitt's opinion was decidedly opposed to the
Opinion of those who now called themselves Pittites, but
it was in strict accordance with the principles lie had uni-
formly act-d on. His Noble Friend near him had elo-
quently advocated the cause of the Catholics of Ireland,
but the claims of the English Catholics were stronger than
these of Ireland, and yet they were most severely treated.
They were denied the elective franchise, and several other
privileges which the Irish Catholics enjoyed. He had
often felt ashaMed when he had seen his Noble Friend, the
representative of such a long line ' of illustrious ant•estore—
he had felt ashamed when lie had seen the Duke of Nor-
folk, whose seat was is the very highest place among their
Lordships, take his station' belinv the bar; and this exclu-
siOa Was without any reason whatever. In the reign of
Elizabeth, at a time when Popery was really formidable,
and the very existence of England was threatened, by whom
was she defended ? The name of Howard was amongst
the foremost en the list of 'her defenders. During those
times of danger the Roman Catholic Peers were the de-
fenders of tl.!ir country. It was at a subsequent period
that they were excluded from their seats in Parliament,
and excluded on very insufficient grounds. The evils of
the present situation of things arose chiefly from the re-
-straintsi exciting in the bosomy df the Catholics a feeling of
hostility, which arrayed them under leaders more hostile
than themselves. It was not possible that men treated as
they had always been should not feel hostility. The danger
arising from this was very great, and he called on their
Lordships not to shut their eyes against the danger, though'
he wished them list to entertain any unworthy feelings as to
the consequences of the combination he mentioned ; but he
Wished them to look the danger ill the face, and consider
what might be the consequences of having a large body
of discontested subjects at' home, under some peculiarities
of our foreign policy. The Catholics were already
leaflikei under leaders, and their combination could not be
put down. That was impossible. When it was hemmed
in et oue point, it broke at another with overpowering
force : it could not be checked, much less subdued. Ile
had been surprised to hear the language of the Right Rev.
Prelate in speaking of the Catholic: religion; and it was
impossible that the Catholics of Ireland should not feel in-
sulted if that language were habitually used towards them.
He (Lord Darnley) was the advocate of the peeteetapt re-
ligion
; but he did net, therefore; think that the Catholic
ieligion light to bespoken of Worse than the religion of
Mithonlet.—(Heae.)--•The Catholic was not a Protestant/
toinialyt attemyys
the
but he was not an infidel. He %yes e owe/44e of
suaetthenldred-'
Chrietien Cliffech, end lie was surprised to heable•
gdecilei4ugt
rrel!nhhevstivdohti which at towardsjrsi:oiagial
ittetyshe
to itsath tics
elf possessionhbeyu tdi' etvmitiejolbiieos
liPtitstlrjae_
e load
naent, also, of the efforts tem, making in Ireland
ibeer!tre
to receive the
well-meaning, but weak persons,
lled
tures on the Catholics. lye the Catholics were seedy of
,
pagans and heathen,,
I'vni:it)
.11,1jaegdi:tnt:oot attempt
ipt)he't,:iteiosnicc:osn.tvh,' shevete,lvrie. eeaoisn:
loicp.tf°uht
rals e
rya
Made With a Bible in one hand, ..;(1,4 4"0 '0 11.i° °thee.;
o
and so the people weee
Scripterce, He weeeure that all these attempts to in.-
s;rease.`the number df Protestants would only increase
Comparative number of the Roman Catholic. He Should
be delighted to see the Roman cathehee of jrelitud con-
vented to 'the reete4a"4 Church ; b'uf 'the mode 'adopted
mto e mnplish this would, he was persuaded, do• mote
inisChief thaiegOod. He knew this had already been the
case, and he would,meution one instance which lie knew to
he correct. In the town.of Drogheda, there were two po-
pular Protestant preachers, much followed by the inhabi-
tant;; hut after a Missionary made his appearance at Drog-
heda, the preachers were deserted, and not one Catholic ever

e 60
afterwards went to hear them. Similar, emits lo".'e ti tution,
, tievedetweu.notieed at other. places. It, pets plain, tripei , question.-
'finlisaiitioe of the 'Charter schools, up ,e,o thisiesfC 001 all quest'
illation, that every thing possible was to. he'densets • renders it
• and insult the Catholics. It was an insult eve!' can he as
• pose them capable of changing'
their religion dere'
present circumstance,. A high spirited and higit4st
people like the Irish, would never forsake the' " • .
rfats):,ll,yilef;l:kf.am'etoaoat,tinliallat::,l,'
:their ',forefathers so long sia'it was exposed to re 0 . elm clear!'
By withholding their, rights from' the -Catholics, e
made' the Catholics and the Protestants enemies Rio ' • hfimrwtoh which
dered :the whole.cOuntry insecure—no /slm edida";. from :the 1
with safety,and all those, who could improve I:e;10,i
,set ilremained abroad:. Having said thus much, here
plore their Lordships to take :the subject into tOirelli
1
deration. . He' hoped: ;and trusted that their 1) . , the pat tic
,would, accede to. the application ; and he coal' bile • ahl ler
conceive that any Minister,. he could not pesenl'il at 4 :
~defeetsibeclea
that hiaNeble and Illustrious-Friend, would putt' gos know iipoi
the claires of the .Catholia: He hoped,• whateerski , e' eleleeie'e
ties might be required of the Catholics—and be? .SS a- --1,-,s-e,'
to say that they. Would assent to any securities ideldpd .... prove it i!
ing up the Catholic religion—he trusted , and 10 s. • elusion it,
his Noble Friend aed
'eheir Lordships would notelet'', to their *a
hopes of the Catholics.--I(klear, hear.)—lie hOre ~. had coma
Lordships would do the Catholics justice; be belie', . which'ilit
it would be expedient to do so, and he was sure tl"d ,of delibera
Duke at the head of the Government could'
gain ; (Hear, het
laurels than those which he would receive for gill"' •,, were, and
to the Empire and to Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) that ever S
irs.a4diteMiAnaNutiNiEbreSbeslpoewkethjefrobnatr. wthecreo,sSebenenee,,' •• , hear. )• A
w
untlerkw'r now ? Y
his Lordship condemned the exaggerated speeches 1"
the aggregate meetings. His Lordship argued, we' .
. House, as
stood, against the. propriety of intrusting Roman ,
with legislative power. If their Lordships) were 'id, ~. nilini:ueeoctev:le'le.eldexrisctielite.
t i destroy otir present Church, the best plan Wu' ground of ,
admit the Catholics to a share in the Legislature. ,
.e. say that th
The Earl of GUILFORD opposed the motion-as°.
to the principles of the Constitution. It was' to u.,
Rthoenplarninceiaptlheolokflextchlautsiotinw frpomrinpc:liotficaol
rpaonwgeeicaarveit'; wound up
natePeerse
, is no art(
country. He denied that the repeal of these late" s'blessed,"
produce tranquillity iu Ireland. • On the Contrary, . • exclusion,
Jieved, that by giving power to the Roman Catlesh€ • • _
,tdeased. j
it would tend to. disunion, and perhaps the sepses, e unjust and
the. two countries. It was easy to talk of Securio continuant
what security could there be sgeimethe restless a nje; •
:,ts,st,iiiiiii•io(ijaanrinitgiothicSi
rfos:Coninra:et
of the Roman Catholic Priests to perform their sate it. it. Ido i
of spreading the influence of '
their Church?' chit :,,, itself, a del
there was a Popish Convention, established, " 'r, • • ged to, pro-,
open rebellion against the litce.-at least- in .direces political di
tradiction of its spirit and letter.. 'flee •Retrutn-s, ; dishonours
lie religion vitally affected the safety of Chupiosrchitisono?: s -yiVo.h.ti•retistht
itilijgeictinfinhiisselffeetobletli7
He was ahwearmeighthtits
Dapute"L • . • „.1 admit,
being a higotted Churchman, who was Contending w e ared, that
divided all(
temporal emoluments of his profession. fie would)
the imputation of sordid 'Motives with conteinetS ,
any other t
would support the Church of England as long o'l,e
convinced it was one of those establishments tebiere
ded to the welfare of the country. When -he Isier, ' fieation, be,
' ' 'viii
sliPll.itlerio a'
t'mu: stcoei °fent. n'ontalunmPleioez:,
doubts and fears of a horrible superstition benigbit7:
pc:ll6°n of the•kingdotia, and the hollow vapours of'e
liberality darkening the prosperity of the British
~17, i
home and abroad=when he saw the discipl,es,..°,
schools refuse a religious educatibn to :chiltitiliod, 19c , . aseee .
that it Might be infected with' the doctrines of •iire • -
.‘' put them
and`
, modern
valuable
ipallialaocsoiepthyyt—ba7phleaucehe d
i asa
jue'aci
javerdryr_t hat:.g4,130:". , , enceiniistyt ie eyno, int:o:
he saw the edge of the law blunted by the freq"'el
crime; he lelt it his duty to come forward and give ti. of perpetual
assistance to support the civil and religiousflint', - e .
ie ,e' - et. an interi
, under which the country had risen to greatness, ' 0
many centuries enjoyed happiness. For these rep
ot gave, to, the
trusted the resolution of the Noble Marquis would °°
unfit depot
adopted. .
Doti franchise—'
The Bishop of DURHAM alto. objeCted to the '
~ and yet you
He could not consent to an• equal participation `° i eepahle of 1
rights by persons holding the doctrine of a. (livid°, the same Oil
glance ; all ,other classes of the King's subjects sof-cd ~, fell exercise
their whole allegiance, and that alone entitled thew e,' r
privilege
full enjoyment of their civil rights. He did uot,'"USS laail,iouov
question the eespect of the Roman Catholics for 'bete re United Kil
He had no doubt they would faithfully and hon°lo, more into':
perform their obligations, as far as they were at libli‘;' have taken •
do so. But the submission in which they were- an '
J f recent Ate,
to the-Pepe rendered it impossible they could 1;0 gt": r lute) civil of
jests. The Right Reverend Prelate referted,to we r'l, . Bill in the
dente of Dr. Doyle, the Roman Catholic Bishop '
they weree
dare, before the Committees of both Houses ofPOlO. might du so
in support of his statement. In these opinions be,' recently t'•" o
:Bishop of Durham) could not concur. They WeLe far as it lei..
,
same ma which objections to the admission of the. 1" 1
e • 'mist sny,
Catholics to political power bad been founded wive a
the Revolution. The. Right Reverend Prelate q''°:,
passage from Lord Clarendon to this effect, and r°,s parliament
also to the :opinions of Doctor Barrow. He had $e For Por my Lt
asserted that it was vulgar and uugentletnatdr° `.(.):•' brilliant.
such argument„ as these; and
history were to be considered as book-headed bloelsVa . - coup
Won this Mi
yet, in, the face of such observations as these,.; it ;be cannot enter
be Jetaethbered that these same arguments bad I victuals whc
over and over again tauntingly brought forwart!' de owing to ti
Right Reverend Prelate then referred (as seleeeured
stood) to . ionic • questions that .had _been Publ-a I,
ttetilh.k'lolatatlitilVdUeoil:i.fklngatvhltletothhaalt
, the first of which was, whether the Pope 'll-pe; iuderett„haiisn,l
itoglilaniployroreiiii•ny*ltireisemteptosora temporal authority ? and the answe r 6 'ls' ' veiled the
was, that, the Pope neither had, nor pretended r°,4?, ''cunt of the
any such authority. The next question was—wbul 1- ,
nature and extent of the. Papal authority—how d° )',lO, glorious tith
fine it-? What sort of answer might be given to tbi'-'O, 4110 w-count
tbieonaliveedryiddnifroitl.kenntowo
I cannot cot
,nebuftrohme wtahsatpewrshuiachde.wl
xtl,eiftairi...:.;9o'y dsree due i
Many cases were also cited, .but they appeared t° Riot, tholies of he
contain nothing to the point. The highest pnwera l' repress
th:efinlitiwhi,
tined in any government was the legislative ; that 4,fi 4
and by s Nu
power which controlled the Sovereign; and if, .'
~i' hum the Ro
isers
that power was entrusted to representatives whothte. S,
material a point as that of religion, differed frog? t, 0 the opinion
vereign, such would appear to him to he the 1140 e
.titthge:tsih.adcilj.tiuisdetieirsi
folly. (Hear, hear.) He would not take that °glee argument th
nity of entering into the questiCia of securities, bee' eel respect whit
appeared to him that no specific plan hie] been es ye • lions. But
and be certainly thought that securities could, na", d tont of adi
Ile might say, hOWeve,r;tef, ' Rev Prelate
it till their Lordships knew what definitive in' jib' squalls• to H
‘il'a3a
natureF:le) aoir)feedtblirte:iuringfihanit't hfto,hiauwt:atribdi the Catholics
t o give & were,any security fia
tbt: 11';
l'irl,r topic al legaicalsnoce:
tliloartdsli
suchips
securities
est uo accept
ughought
Baa stuciffi betieanstk.
ed _l3 But
ai tt. s'i
oldle-100 11
be left to the consciences o the Catholics. Lord 1, 'ad experi n
don had 'given it as his opinion, that it would not ;eye allegiance ' e„i
unless the Catholics consented to renounce the jurl*l". el '
be Pope, it is le
of the Pope; and as he supposed that they ,would -co the ewe
Willing to do this, he did not see what security there,. ie(:.
il
tel interr a
offer which their Lordshipe ought to accept. Ande,;;ioe t;
lie must confess, that unless the Catholics were wit,-,”e• 10, On the Oren
give tip all connection with the See of Rome, lie "'vie q Catholiccith
o:liothwe tlCth°l.),
see how they could he admitted to those privilege's '•
they were claiming. (Hear, hear. ,'t
!Pi *se in one ,
Viscount GODERICIL—I shall not advert to t I'3 :1' 14 easures ago'
of the subject of this diecussion which most direetii,.ds himself liel•
out of what we all admit to be the errors .af the Chanel]) be eeseeeSee,Z
Rome. The question before your Lordships does 0, C." 4: "4 lied wail h
depend upon the consideration of
the
the It°104•10, "s doing that
Undies are right or wrong in the re)igieue op,iniau-oist' tither ; 'and '
hold ; but whether there be any; ouch tie or &PIS reW '4lptect by
between these erroneous principlese and their Politicosd far the lope
tie's to the State, as can Ju4tifiParlinaclent in 1•114.41ee jl? 114ni:IpeoiVe fort'
.restrictions, which all of You, lily Lords, • admit ° -.oil!'
Unspeakable importanceit:ittoatednfde,egi:tlhiueantutitlhoisafs riat ilpts°i::::;: ' 4;ll:tfleadurelen:ltfieeir;;:s‘ii
stliit::irisomifilalyP";eBi)bileffeoerl any
Yhat I still greatly underrates
01 70 lidil . properties am
of ak importance nee perhaps, as tbe,„el'et'' "a in dayscuiee
t ratterifiall7lPygel.niii cYaithilhoilirenpee
coaalllitaYalaati,rttsi
ito)cau4lhlt4oe attaches sttansitidito:iiiste. w
blotbpuirttol'ita, -......,:::.
owfit:iiioeoktin4gY4ooitzran6,,,bla47., 'S. hese e
absolutely vital—(Hear)'lit tiOeli Fulfill
anicisteu!tti
Terre
, Per Jo
to those who oppose it.—(ll.4t 01 .1", Po ie itil
we, illy Lords, who are friendly to its eanceeaietts ti"" e ts}' '4' same Va i
no peace or tranquillity o°l:via of estidinelet
of)—
the
uniting
,4 amid 4;. :el' ;ow:. :"cileeti:tesetiailrn-ion-141
l'ug's
of she hearts and affections of all classes:re-4f"
together s 11:line' all pahrtes"eke'Y bows 1,
that without it, you never can, yourselees. fl‘sseeeed' dtt to enter it
entire confidence in your own eteength which is a „0"' '''l'stltit I.
to your own safety, beceesee it is essential to teaeos:es 11'0 rend '
nations that his 4 tiengerous thing to meddle with a" / :ens ; ane:
kingdeenee-i say that if we who advocate. the teitea4Vij, e',„l'tively litt
actuated by these considerations, ceeesSederalions e'ejit eltnitle to do
all'eten who love their
tercet) no lees tertetete 74,y. leigi vital, must theY aP e`'' 101' And
• vuta,aeli,, that it
those who ac 6, t4tt taoSt ,strentionsly oppo d tet M° .I' 1 melt ~,,a , the
Ite - 40
Co9,lltsly, Wl.St itrti to be of ve ,Lrope. In
crciii,.,n, If it be admitted that this steel a. Ili ng'es/. oral Greeted
gardi•lieland ' ie, beyond description, • unsetiefser(Ls)( . lee klltelleet ;
it be admitted by the °repents of the question--4: "'rel se-41 he
.1,
not attempt to esesseal the Jaeger, to which, 6;e ""Pend'
tit °f
cu
thereby eieeeed-s-it iet;fneet6oti.ittl.e vete aordivarytbeY;4,,rik lb
til„, i ,
took upon the danger
~.. ~ t,; Inning such a state oftr• ree ~ fosee -.sets of s
be so infinitely exceeded by the danger that ' wcn'Tee-:4:, Cu L''''-"inati.
Ito the Coneeitution from'' its removal by tlyst c`UI• If ~,‘ ;A- dßeaded
whist is claimed of them. (hleer, principle hirt 44-7 thi •
ests amore flute
'were tree that this is a question, the of `Vele el - extended
was not one simply of expediency, but so mixed with tY,sso, til•Y' lf with ,
essence of the Constitution of the country, that YauSS€l eeoeel:Yesident
not depart front' the practice of permanent politicaite L' , th,ole -peieret,
sion of Roman CatholiCs from all perticipation in to,0101i: wilePrapositio
gthiselraetbuyre,,iposroftalicetoc,apaett:dityi
.--" `ng Vuoti
nofdelitoolidl,i.nsgebeviveiritin°gili7he CA6gt