The Sun.
London, England, 1821-03-28 00:00:00

FOREIGN SPIRITS.

Colonel DAVIES moved for a Return of the amount of
Foreign Spirits imported into Great Britain from the sth of
January, 1785, to the sth Januar' 1821.—Ordered.

y,
INDENTURES.

Mr. LEGH KECK obtained leave to bring in a Bill to
render valid Indentures of Parish Apprentices, signed by
Churchwardens.

MILAN COMMISSION. I
Lord A. HAMILTON postponed his motion (rerative to
the expences of the Milan Commission, which stoodrfor to-
morrow) to Thursday sennight.
IRISH JUDICIAL SITUATIONS.

Dr. LUSHINGTON rose to move for leave to bring in a
Bill to disable persons holding certain high judicial situations
in Ireland, from sitting as Members of this House. He ob-
served that it was the object of his Bill to exclude the Lord
Chancellor of Ireland, the Master of the Rolls, the twelve
Judges, and ft)tir Irish. Masters in Chancery, from holding a
seat in Parliarnont, as their duties were such as
.to render it
utterly impossible to discharge the duties of their offices pro-
perly, and to hold at the same time a seat in the House. This
was a subject, he said, which had been already much discussed,
and his intention only was, not to interfere with those now
holding the offices mentioned, but to make it , wholly a pro-
spective measure. If the Bill were likely to be discussed, he
should rather enter into its merits on its second reading.—Leave
was given.
TAKING OF- EVIDENCE ABROAD. .

Dr. LUSTIING TON then moved for leave to bring in aßill
to facilitate the taking of evidence in the British dominions
abroad. According to the present law it was necessary to insti-
tute very long and expensive proceztlings before an examination
out of the kingdom could be taken. This inconvenience had
been remedied with regard to witnesses in the East Indies, and
his object was to extend that measure to the British Colonies.—
Leave given.
REFORM OF CORRUPT BOROUGHS.

Lord J. RUSSELL said it was his intention to withdraw,
for the present, the notice which he had given for leave to bring
in two Bills for the Reform of Corrupt Boroughs, with the
view of bringing the subject before the House at as convenient
a period as possible after Easter. He would not, therefore,
now go at any length into the objects of his two Bills, he would
briefly state, that the purpose of the first was to enable the
House to enter into an inquiry as to acts of corruption commit-
ted by boroughs, when no complaint was before at of an undue
election for such Boroughs ; the inquiry to be taken by what was
called a Grenville Committee, that was a Committee empowered
to examine evidence on oath. The purpose of the second Bill
would be to set apart a million of money for buying up the fran-
chises of all boroughs which from their decayed state were liable
to become corrupt, and to transfer their right of election to po-

pulous districts now unrepresented, which Nebula be enabled
return a number of Members according to the just proportion
of their interests, but to such an extent as that the total number
of the Members or this House should not be increased above
twenty. He *as not prepared to say, whether he would bring
forward these measures in the first instance in the shape of Reso-
lutions or of Bills.—Ndtice withdrawn.
UNION DUTIES.
Mr. WILMOT, 7esented, a Petition from . the Master Hat
Manufacturers of INewcastle-under-Lyme against the Union
Duties upon hats, which, after a few words from the CHAN-
CELLOR of die EXCHEQUER and Sir H. PARNELL, was read
and ordered to be printed. - •
MALT DUTIES.
Mr. C. GRANT presented a Petition from the Freeholders
of the County of Inverness against the additional duty on Malt.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER made some
observation which we could not collect. The Petition was or-
dered to be printed.
ROMAN CATHOLIC DISABILITY REMOVAL BILL.
Sir J. NEwPoRT moved that the order of the
day for the House going into a Committee on this
Bill be then read. The order was read accord-
ingly.
A short desultory conversation then took place
about the mode of consolidating the two Bills
into one, between Sir J. Newport, the Speaker,
Mr. Bankes, the Chancellor
of the Excheqoer,
and Mr. Abercromby ; after which,
Sir J. NEWPORT moved that it be an instruca
(ion to the Committee to make a provision to re-
gulate the intercourse between the British Catho-
lic priests and the See of Rome.
. Mr. C. HUTCHINSON declared himself to be
hostile to the Intercourse Bill, and stated that
the Catholic Prelacy and Clergy, both in Eng-
land and Ireland, were by no means satisfied
with it. At another stage of the business,, he
would go in detail into the objections which he
felt against it.
Sir Q. HILL thought that it would have been
much better if the Hon. Member for Cork had
stated the objections which he felt to this Bill
ten days ago, instead; of stating them now, when
so many of the clauses had met with the appro-
bation of the House. He himself did not expect
that the declarations of Dr. Milner and Friar
Hayes would be thrown aside by the Catholic
body of Ireland ;, on the contrary, he was of
opinion that they would be avowed by that body
as containing tenets which had their full appro-
bation.
Mr. C. IluTcnitasoN explained. He had al-
ways opposed the Intercourse Bill ; but he did
not know of the objections to it entertained by.
the Catholic-Prelates till very lately. As soon
as he had obtained information of that fact,
had stated it to the House.—Sir GEORGE HILL
explained.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said that the Right lion.
Member for Londonderry should have beers bet-.:.
ter informed before he gave an opinion on the,-
subject. Mr. hay, •a layman, and not Friar
Hayes, was thnsecretary to the Catholic Board. •
Mr. CAREW stated that, he had received letters
Nom several most respectable Catholics in Ire-
land expressive of the satisfaction which they
felt at the present Bill. He then read_a docu-
ment which' he had translated from the Italian,
containing, an order from the Director-General
of the Police .at Rome for the banishment of
Friar Hayes. at• Rome, and which censured i°.
very severe..termaathe private conduct of
.ahat
reverend persort.... It added, that Mr. ilayes'g
passport would, have contained the grounds
,of
his dismissal from ; but that, at his own.
request, that e44na.tion was not inserted.---'
(Hear, hear !)-4le also read declaration which
he stated had been presented by that individual
on his knees to the Pnpe, in which he admitted
and deplored the indecorum. of some proceedinga-
into which .he had suffered hithself to be be-
trayed.—(Hear, hear !)—He concluded by 'apo-
logising to the. House for•troubling, them•with
these particulars, into which he had been reltic"
tautly 'compelled to enter.—(Hear !)
Mr. M. li'-.ITZGERALD condemned the consoli-
dation of the intercourse with the See of Rome
with the present measure. lie had the, strongest
objection to some of the proposed ecclesiastical
arrangements., Ha had uniformly objected to the
interference of a Protestant administration with
the arrangements of the Catholic Church. lie
objected to -it as much, constitutionally, as a Pro-
testant, as any Catholic could do conscientiously.
On the motion' of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, it was
ordered that'the Committee be instructed to make
such regulations as should be deemed advisable
for regulating the intercourse of the Catholics.
with the See of Rome.
The House then resolved itself into the Com-
mittee upon the Bill. The Chairman then read -
the clause which prohibits any Roman Catholic
from advising the- Crown in the appointment .or
disposal of any lay or. ecclesiastical office, and
makes such advicepif •given, a misdemeanour,
and which also excludes'the Catholics from eli-
gibility to fill the (Aces of Lord High Chan-
cellor, Lord Keeper, or Lord Commissioner of
the Great Seal of Great Britain, or Lord Lieu-
wpant of Ireland.- The question being put. upon'
.this claus,e,
Mr. PEEL rose to move that the exclusions in
•the clause which had just been read should be ex-
tended to the Privy. Council and the Bench. IP°
Right lion. Friend had said on the preceding
evening that the importance of the object. then'
contended for was such, that all others in com-
parison with it were trifling ; and that carried,
they might afterwards feel themselves more at
liberty to refuse other concessions. He hoped
this impression would be acted upon that night,
and would now proceed to state the grounds ut!
which he conceived. it t,o be his duty to move f°l
the exclusion of the Catholics from the. Fri%
Council and from the Judicial Bench ; and (I°.":s'
this, he should address himself equally to t''e
friends and to the opponents of the present °Vs;
pure. By the vote of that House last night/ t" s
House and the other had been opened to persl_
of.. the Roman Catholic religion, and thus the
principle in. the Constitution 'which had kept t
Legislature exclusively 'Protestant bad
abandoned. That act, however, was still to ow
tinue inviolate which provided for the Protestant
succession to the Crown. A. King who 511011.11 e
become Papist forfeited
Crown, and his subjects under that 11a,%%!
in such a case, were at once absolved from t I'l
1 that tile
allegiance to him. It was . require(
be -a i'r°-
King .of this country should not only e ,
testant, but in communion with the Reform.:
his right to tt,
Church. An undertaking was required from 1

Soveti..?ign, that he *mild Maintain the Protestant
reli;-ion as by law' established, and support the
ist ,ops and Clergy in all the rights which be-
to them. According to Mr. Justice
Bite cksteee, in words to this effect " was couched
contract betsieen the King and the
I?e(Vie of this country,"and the subject in return
.r?rft is allegiance had a right to expect that' the
4--rett!stant establishment should be• peeServk!d
entiri9. But from whom was he to inok'for secu-
rity this head ? If thiS were a despotic coun-
try, iv which the will of the Sovereign was the
law of the State, it might be Sdpposed that -the
Constitution had provided that the Monarch
himself should be responsible. But such not be-
ing the case in England, it was to the advisers of
the Crown he must look for that which was the Con-
dition of his'allegiance. The law not only required
that the King himself should be a Protestant,
but it provided that if the King married a' Ca-
tholic 'wife, that in that Case he would Qtually
forfeit his inheritance, and the subject would
be equally absolved from his allegiance. If it
Were tight that the Sovereign under such circum,
stances should forfeit the allegiance of his people,
It We s but just that he should be saved from the
"4:er of undue influence, by their enacting that
his Ldvisers should not be Roman Catholics. He
Could see no security for the Protestant interest
but this,
In -hisjudgrnent, they would have less
danger to apprehend from a Catholic King with
Protestantii Ministers, than from a Protestant
thlng surrounded by Catholic advisers, He
,-"°ught the nation was more in danger from
'Charles the Second advised by Catholic Minis-
ters under Arlington and Bennett, than from
'Pnes the Second, provided he had Catholic
-ministers, By the Bill of
,RightFiit was provid-
ed not that the responsible Ministers of the
('Town should be Pfotestants in eotrimunion With
~
`4l,'e Church,- but that' 'they should not- be
:)rnall, Catholics, It was.' said that it did
hot exclude an infidel or an• atheist. This did not
affect his argument. 'The Bill of Rights did
Provide that Rornan Catholics should not be the
responsible advisers of the Crown, and because
It did not give security against Atheists and In-
fidels, he was not to relinquish the security which
it clitl afford against Roman Catholics. He would
liraw the distinction which it had been admitted
by Mr. Burke ought to be drawn between those
Int ces which were merely
," instruments," and
those which were necessary to bind and uphold
the Government of the country. In his opinion
it would bo.more consistent to exclude the Ca-
tholic:from office altogether, than, to admit him
to a situation, and then strip him a the patron-
age or functions attached to it. He was of opi-
nion this must be more galling to the Catholic
than total exclusion. It was now proposed in
certain Cases to make it a misdemeanour for the
Catholic 'Minister to advise his Sovereign ; and
but for the humane interference of the Hon.
Aleinlrer for 'Durham, he believed for such an
otrence rte--would have been liable to be punished
I,v'eth the. -pillory. NoW the oath of the Priiy
Councillor • ran thus—" You shall in all things
:0 be nie-ved and ,debated, faithfully and truly
Your 'opinion according to your heart and
"nscience." ite7 Would suppose a Secretary
Of State for the Home Department to be assisting
:4t Privy Council, and the question raised to be
°lt the•education of the King's children. Could
Roman Catholic,' according to his heart and
conscience, adVise the King to educate his chil-
dren in the Protestant Faith--(Hear, hear !)
any good Romaii Catholics, according to their
hearts and consciences, could not advise that a
Chrld should be educated in the Protestant Faith.
What a situation Wont& the PriVy Councillor
then be placed in, called on to give his opinion,'
and liable to be punished for a misdemeanour if
- gave-it. The situation of a Privy Councillor
.'as different from livery other to which it was
proposed that C4i.holics should be admitted, and
he thought it intinitelY preferable that they
Vii§tad be excluded. He • now came to state
reasons for wishing -them excluded from the
34(licial Bench. While he wished for their ex-
;.lasion from the Bench, he wished Catholics
tatoth in England and Ireland to be entitled to
privilege of a silk gown. On this subject he
:aeuld be met with the charge of anomaly. But
'n these matters he found the whole course of le-
i,slation pregnant with anomalies.—(Hear D—
ellis necessarily arose from the succession to the
Ir"vn being confined to Protestants, and he
,
tc',el'efore, would not suffer the charge of anomaly
to deter him -from admitting the Roman Catholics
t,,,t) a silk gown. He had always been prepared to
thus far, whatever might have been the fate of
tile lilt. •As Roman Catholics were admitted to
it e,iligheSt rank in the army and navy, he thought
ttAttlectly reasonable that they should be ad-
ever 4d to the honours of a silk gown. He, how-
clue' thought it necessary to contend for their ex-
the from the Bench. It was admitted by
pract4.lVorters of the Bill, that there was no
Nil! !Cal evil to be complained of in the ad-
Istration of- justice in Ireland. The purity
evil the Irish Bench being acknowledged, the
eu,„ was limited to the exclusion of indivi-
re'• This might be considerable, but a
'' h
-(ter evil was to be apprehended, though it
ob; seem invidious to mention it. He was of
tf1;11To, that if Catholics were admitted to sit on
Bench, there would net be that unqualified
satisfactionpr with the administration of justice that
ch"ailed at present.- Though members of the
lie_tireh of Scotland were not excluded from the
it had been the practice (in England at
atigS,t), as far as he was informed, to name as
th_tlges those only who were in communion with
1,17 Established Church. He believed it was the
liva.ctice for a Judge to- qualify himself by Nl-
of.ililg all that could be required from a member
the Church. He believed it was the unifOrm
,
lirac.tice of the Judges on the Circuit to open the
'essie by attending
t_ ivine hip. Ile en- ated the House to consDider thewors effeet-produced
I c, v.
th the solemn pomp and circumstance connected
" their proceedings. Things which the phi-
tljN opher might disregard, and the scholar make
st.lbject of ridicule, might have a value, from
El impression they produced, greatly sur.
Passing their intrinsic importance. It was not
ntti:etheexeexcutie.n: of the ,unhappy cri-
position of the law that closed

the duties of the Judge. lie Could not but
think, that his attending. Divine worship as it
were to call for the aid of the Most High, in de-
ciding on the. fortunes, the Characters, and_ the
lives of their fellow men, Made a strong impres-
sion on all observers, and, in his opinion, the
discontinuance of this practice would be highly
injurious. He concluded by addressing himself
to the proposers of the Bill. He admitted that
they had acted with great candour towards their
opponents. The latter had not appealed to the
public, nor attempted to awaken former anitrio-
sities. That the country was qUiet on this sub
ject, did not proceed from apathy or indifference,
but from a just confidence in the wisdom of that
calumniated House. He believed the country
would not have remained thus quiet but for their
confidence in the justice of their Representatives.
He hoped the moderation of the Protestant po-
pulation would be requited by the concession of
the securities for the-Constitution for which he
now called. He then moved that the-words—
"or to be of the Privy Council"—should be'
added to the exclusion from certain offices con.
tained in the clause, and when this amendment
was disposed of, he proposed to move the addi-
tion of other words, for the purpose of excluding
Catholics from the Bench.

Sir J. NEWPORT bore testimony to the temper
and moderation which the Right Hon. Gentleman
had displayed, than which nothing could be more
beneficial to the community at large. He could
not understand why Roman Catholics should be
excluded from the Privy Council, unless the
Right Hon. Gentleman was disposed to go the
length of declaring, that no person should be of
the Privy Council who was not in communion
with the Church of England. In this particular
case, and in this alone, the Sovereign was made
responsible for his own conduct ; and if he em-
braced the Roman Catholic religion, the constitu-
tion had provided, that he should forfeit the al-
legiance of his subjects► Such being the practice
of the constitution he could see no reasonable
grounds for excluding the Roman Catholics more
than any other Dissenters from the advisers of
the Crown, That the distinctions now made
were unnecessary, he instanced from the facts
that at present among the Foreign Ambassadors
we had a Protestant Minister from Catholic Ba-
varia, and a Catholic Minister from Protestant
Denmark. He called the attention of the House
to the ease of Hungary, which had been
divided by religious dissentious for many
centuries, but which had been tranquil
and united since 1791, when all religious disa-
bilities were done away. The conduct of the
Catholics in Hungary, in admitting the Protes-
tants to a full participation in all the rights and
privileges which they enjoyed, refuted the stories
told of Catholic interference and bigotry, so often
contrasted with Protestant liberality. The
Right Hon. Gentleman proposed to exclude Ca-
tholics from the Bench, but was willing to allow
them the honour of a silk gown. It had often
struck him as most extraordinary, that in the
Act of 1793, Catholics should be admitted to the
Bar and-•not to the Bench. He knew not what
end this could answer. Sure he was, that if the
Catholics were unfit to be entrusted with the
Administration of Justice, they ought not to
be entrusted with the right of deciding on the
fortunes and lives of their fellow subjects, as they
now did at all the assizes. He therefore contend-
ed, as his Right Honourable Friend who
brought this subject forward had, that the
Catholics ought to be allowed to join with the
Protestants in the race of glory. This was de-
manded not merely for the sake of the Catholics,
but as his Right Hon. Friend had stated, it was
demanded for the sake Of the Protestant.bar, for
if this were not conceded, there was no race of
glory. If the Protestant could only triumph be-
cause the Catholic, who might get before him,
was kept back by his religion, there was little
cause for exultation in success. He considered
the present Bill likely to give security to the
Protestant Establishment, by uniting all classes
in support of the present system ; and seeing no
just grounds for the exclusion now proposed, he
should certainly oppose it.

Sir J. Nicnom, contended that the objects
held out to be obtained by the passing of the
present Bill, namely, general satisfaction to the
Catholics, and union and peace among all his
Majesty's subjects, would not be found to re-
sult therefrom. He was desirous to meet the
present question upon the ground of security.
Having already admitted Catholics to seats in
Parliament, was it too me% to provide that se-
curity which was contemplated by the present
amendment. With respect to the danger of ad-
mitting CatholiCs to the Administration of the
Government, some would of course feel it more
and some less. Foreign danger, he admitted,
was not so great now as it had been at earlier
periods. What it would be hereafter he knew
not. But it was not to foreign danger, it was
domestic danger to which he looked with appre-
sion. Instead of promoting domestic peace and
union, as was represented, he believed that the
present measure would be calculated to sow dis-
cord and disunion. But the most pressing dan-
ger was that which impended over the Eccle-
siastical Establishments. At a time like this,
when there was an unfortunate disposition among
the lower classes to follow the different sectaries,
and to become dissenters from the Established
Church, every thing ought to be cautiously
avoided which would seem to lessen the support
and countenance which the Protestant Church
claimed and demanded by the provisions of the
Constitution. The preponderating numbers of
the Catholics in Ireland was a subject for the
most serious reflection. It never could be con-
templated to make the religious establishments
of that country Catholic, because, in the Act of
Union, it was expressly provided that the Pro-
testant Church should be the ruling establish-
ment. It was described in the' Act as the Pro-
testant Establishment of England and Ireland.
No separation could therefore take -place with-
out a breach of public -faith.—(Hear, hear,
hear !)—lt was, in fact, the fundamental and

essential basis of that Union, that the Pro-
testant Church should be preserved in its su-
premacy.—(Hear, hear !)---The Right Honour-
able Member then read the passage of the Act

to which he-had alluded. is the:ii this safegdard
was established upon principle and upon good
faith,. he had no apprehenSions in that quarter.—
He would do the Catholics the -justice to say that
he did not believe they would attempt, to alter
the established 'religion.—(hear, hear !)—But
what he feared was, that the demagogueS would
make this numerical superiority of the Catholics
a ground upon Which to prosecdte their evil de-
signs. They Would induce the lower classes.
among that body to becdrrie impatient of the su-
periority df the Protestants in this respect, and
by holding out to them the abolishment of tithes
and Other inticements, they would .draw them
into the greatest state of disquiet. Instead then
of this measure being one calculated to knit to-
gether the opposing interests of the two parties,
of calming the passions, and of allaying the
heat of men's minds, it would create jealousies,
it would stir up new troubles, and perhaps
keep the country in a state of perpetual war-
fare. He could assure the House that if he
could be satisfied that any measure of concilia-
tion could' be carried into effect with security, he
would most sincerely join in its support. He
should most sincerely rejoice in being able to re-
move for ever that cause of agitation which had
so long existed.—(Hear, hear !)—He should most
sincerely. rejoice if the franchises and offices of
the State could be open to all, if it could be done

with security. But he really did think that all
these expectations were vain. lie supported the
amendment of his Right Hon. Friend, because,
although it did not relieve his objection to the
principle of the Bill, yet, as it left a choice of
difficulties, his sense of duty prompted him to
vote for that which he considered to be least.---
(Hear.)
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that with the permis-
sion of the House he would shortly state wherein
he differed from the lion. and Learned Member
who had just sat down. En 1813 he had thought
that the Catholics had better wait than accept a
measure broken down by limitations such as were
then pr4osed ; but now so far as his advice to the
Catholics went, he wished them to receive with a
kindly spirit whatever portion of their claims
their Protestant Brethren might be prepared to
allow. With a view to the utility of the measure,
it ought not to be forced ; but he particularly de-
precated any ground of further protraction being
laid by pressing for all at once. He agreed with
the lion. and Learned Gentleman that the pre-
servation of the Church establishment was a
fundamental principle of the Constitution, for
the preservation of which it was rendered for
ever inherent in the Crown. The Honourable
and Learned Gentleman had truly stated that
the Union bad merged for ever the Protestant
Church of Ireland with that of England. He held
it to he absurd and inadmissible to talk of
modifying the Protestant Church of England
with reference to the Catholic population of Ire-
land ; that was a question which was happily
placed at rest for ever from parliamentary inter-

ference. But the llon. and Learned Gentletnan

would agree with him, that it was one thing to
establish a church and another to give that sort
of qualified endowment which the Clergy of the
Church o► Scotland at this moment possessed, and
which had been extended to a branch of that
kirk in Ireland. The distinct difference between

the' Hon. and Learned Member (Sir J. Nicholl)
and himself was, that he (Sir J. Nicholl) argued
as if by some enchantment we had from Protes-
tant suddenly become Catholic, and surrounded
the Throne with Papist Councillors, Lawyers,
&c. instead of looking at it as essentially a Protes-
tant country with a Protestant Sovereign. With
respect to the Catholic population, he granted
that there were among them Noblemen and Gen-
tlemen of the highest character and talents, but
that there should be such a proportion as
would create danger as to Great Britain

alone, was, he thought, quite a chimerical
fear. The question was a question of degree
only, and if it were allowed ". that no danger
would accrue as to Great 'Britain, he would ex-

amine what would be the case as 'to Ireland. We
had got into a habit of representing the Catholic
population very differently from what it had
used to be calculated at. Dr. Duigenan had
stated in his place, from an authority which
he quoted, that there were in Ireland, 700,000
houses, which, at six persons to a house,
gave four millions ; but from a later and more
accurate computation, the Doctor estimated
that instead of six to a house, 51 was the pro-
per proportion, of which not above two millions
were Catholics- Of the real property, 49-50ths
were possessed by Protestants, and 9-10ths
of the personal property. The Catholic free-

_ . holders were not hear so numerous as the Pro-
testant. He (Lard Castlereagh) had looked into
the Catholic influence as it regarded property,
and there were not above 14 or 15 places in which

Catholic influence could make itself very seri-
ously felt; and in his conscience he believed,
that if the Bill should pass, not above five or six
Catholics would be returned ; and so far from a
dangerous number, there would hardly as many
and their way to that House as would be desirable
for the Protestant establishment to see there—be-
cause,' if they had dangerous designs, that House
was the most advantageous place in which their
minds could be operated upon, and they would

e a more useful medium of communication

with the Catholic body than any other. He ad-
mitted that property might hereafter follow the
current of numbers. He agreed that would be

growing, but it must be of slow growth, and
considering the quantity of capital already

accumulated by the Protestants, he could
not look to any disturbances of the propor-
tion of property with any degree of alarm.—
lie did not pretend to say that the Roman Catho-
lic could fill all the offices of the State with the
same advantage as the Protestant could, but he

thought the question was, whether that 'night not
safely be left to Government--(Hear, hear !)
and not resolve that which was a question of se-

ection into one of exclusion. He thought it

might with .safety be left to the Crown so long
as the Crown was Protestant, which it must ever
be ; for he agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet

Sir J. Newport), that was a case in which the

King was personally responsible, or rather his
ight to the Crown did not rest if he were not

. . , .
iProtestant. ire did not 'anticipate any dander
„
froth a Catholic of . superior' abilities Making
his way to the Bench till time had throWn his
mantle over recent eventsi he could net con.;
ceive . a situation of greater responSibility
than that of a .person so promoted ; all eyes
would be on him, and. he would be tn. ore
likely to, discharge his duty in an exemplary
manner, than to exhibit any undue Preference
to those of his own religion ; but this also
might safely be left to the Crown. He (Lord Cas-
tlereagh) carried the principle df non-exemption
so far, that the, Measure would have been more
acceptable to Wm had it not contained a single
exception ; and though he was ready to yield
' his judgment to what appeared to be the general
wish, to secure by enactments rather than rely
upon the natural
.ttecessity and fitness of things,
he considered it quite superfluous to, prohibit by
Act.of Parliament the raising the Archbishop of
Canterbury to that dignity from his Majesty's
troops.—(A laugh.)—The Noble 'Aid shortly
recapitulated his arguments, and trusted that at
least he had stated enough to justify the vote he
should give ; yet, if the wisdom of Parliament
should decide against his opinion, he should still
hope the Catholics would receive that which the
Protestants were now prepared to give ; and
sure he was, that no Catholic would wish that to
be conceded to him which'.would endanger the
Constitution, which watched over his liberty and
enjoyments in common with all other classes of
the • community.--(The Noble Lord sat down
amid loud cheering.) -
Sir J. NICHOLL and Lord CASTLEREAGH mu-
tually explained.
Mr. LEGH KECK supported the Amendment.
He expressed his surprise at the manner in which
the Petition he had presented a few days ago
from a very respectable body of Clergymen had
been treated by some Members of the House.—
He was extremely surprised to have heard
.that
the lion: Member for Knaresborough expressed
himself hostile to receiving the Petition. Not-
withstanding the transcendent talent with which
the measure before the House had been support-
ed, those Petitioners still held the same opinions
which they set forth in the Petition; and he re-
mained in the same situation.
Mr. WETHERELL contended, that as the friends
of the Bill had professed that they had support-
ed it hitherto in consequence of its being under-
stood that Catholics should be excluded altoge-
ther from any Catholic judicature ; they acting
up to this principle, which was considered the
only safe one, must now reject the present
clause, and agree in the amendment. As it
was agreed that Catholics should not it as
Judges in a Spiritual or Ecclesiastical Court,
so it should in consistency be now determined,
they ought not to sit in our ordinary Courts of
Law. The reason was obvious. In the ordinary-
Courts of Law various subjects of an ecclesiasti-
cal nature were continually determined, such as
suits concerning tithes, marriages, legitimacy, and
all titles depending on these questions, and as it
had been admitted that Catholics were unfit to
determine such and similar questions in a Spiritual
cCoomu
ir)te,t
e they
n t were
odeer
determine
ex e
rmi
nnee eusesis/ttt e
questions
so fimproper
ecclesiastical-
law in our Courts of common law. They were
ie equallyi improper
becauseto act
ha s
ethey
Privy
wouldb
e officially Councillors for
t
empowered to administer, if they thought proper,
same reason,
the most injurious advice to their Sovereign in
his privacy and in his closet, with respect to
Church Government and Church Preferments.—
The penalty of forfeiture of his office, intended
to be annexed to such an offence, could never be
a subject of even apprehension to such a Privy
Councillor, because there could, from the secret
access he had to the King, be no possible evi-
dence brought forward of the fact of his having
given such advice. He shonld, for these reasons,
support the amendment.
Sir J. 111ActuNTosn, in reply to the argu

ments of the lion. Mover of the amendment,
maintained that the real and legal security of the
establishment in Church and State, was the limi-
tation of the Crown' to the Protestant line of suc-
cession. Anomalies ought to be no ground of
valid objection in such cases as these, when it was
considered how various, irregular, and unsym-
metrical were the affairs of mankind. The con-
venience or inconvenience of a measure were far
more just reasons to influence our decisions, where
it became necessary to make, in order to secure

a desirable object, a compromise of difficulties.
In reply to the argument of his Learned Friend,
who asked where a security was to be' found for
the Catholic not availing himself of his facility of
access to the Royal ear, he would ask where was
security given that a Protestant Privy Councillor
might not endeavour to prejudice his Sovereign
on subjects perhaps of equal importance.? This
demand of a security reminded him.oc the well
known application of the Plenipotentiaries of -Ve-
nice to the Roman Pontiff, asking in the name of
their Government, where was the authority to be
found under which St. Peter had bequeathed his
temporal power to the See of Rome ? The an-
swer of the Sovereign Pontiff was such as he was

disposed to give his. Hon. and Learned Friend,
namely, that the authority. by which he held the
power of,the See of Rome, as derived from St.
Peter, was ,to be found indorsed on the. back of
that instrument which assigned for ever.the sove-
reignty of the Adriatic sea to the States of Venice.
—(Hear!)--lf Catholics could advise their Sove-
reign after the passing of this Bill in this House, or
that of the,Peers of the realm, would it not be a new
degradation of the House to treat Rornary Catho-
lics as outcasts, or a proscribed .class, though in
both Houses of Parliament, thus creating a pri-
vileged majority and a degraded minority ?
though he imagined the Catholics would not per-
haps join in a full participation in religious rites
Isiith the Established Church; yet he saw no
,just cause of impediment why they should not at-

.end with all decent observance places of won-

ship belonging to the Established Church, whilst
they might feel an indisposition to join in re-
ceiving the Communion with Protestants, There
were but few persons who could aspire to seats
in Parliament ; but if they considered the num-
ber of persons who from the, middle and respect-
able classes of Roman Catholics in Ireland

►vere educated for the liar, they would see

. what a general satisfaCtion it most necessarily
spread to have thorn adniiBSible to the Bench-:
What-impression would it make on the people' bf
that country: td See one eminent man of their
order and communion seated on the bench ? It
must tend to bring back that feeling of security,
of equality and jdstice, which the prostrlptiiiit
of , ages bad removed. It .happened' to him to
administer the laws between men of all religions
under heaven ; but he never felt any difficulty in
discharging his duties amidst such discordant
principles. For this he claimed no merit.":. He
-
was not so sanguine as to expect that immediate
and general satisfaction would be the of
the measure in Ireland. Such an eXpectatidit
was disclaimed at the very outset by his Hon.
and Learned Friend (Mr. Plunkett).
Mr. BARHAM, amid loud cries of " Questions"
obServed, that as the llOn.Member for Leicester
had remarked upon- something he had said a
month ago, he trusted the Committee would -al-
low him a few minutes to explain the subject
alluded to. 'With respect to the petition of-the
Archdeaconry of Leicester, he could only say
that he was not known to any One of the pe-
titioners ; that if he had said any thing unguard-
ed on the occasion in question, he was Sorry he
had done so; but he could not. retract the
expression of his indignation atrthe latiguare
of the petition. It accused a great part of
Christian world of being unworthy of belief
upon their oath. With regard to the petition of
Mr. Hayes, he could assure the Committee that
he was able to speak of some circumstances with-
in his own knowledge relating to that Gentleman.
He (Mr.. B.) was at Rome at the time of the ex-
amination into Mr. Hayes's conduct;' he had seen
the order for Mr. 11. to quit Rome within it
hours, and the Papal territories within three
days ; he had seen the depoSitions on the subject,
with the Governor's Report upon them, and he
had also seen Mr. Hayes's letters to the Pope ac-
knowledging the justice of his sentence.—[Here
there was a very general cry of " Question," and
strangers were ordered to withdraw.] •
The House then divided upon Mr. Peel's
Amendment, when there appeared
For the Amendment - - " 109 '
Against it - - - - 188
Majority against the Amendment -19
We understand Mr. PEEL moved, whilst the
Gallery was shut, to exclude the Office of Chan-
cellor. of Ireland, which was agreed to without a
division.,

On our admission to the gallery we found Mr.
couLnuaN contending that Catholics ought not
to be Governors of Colonies. The Hon..lllelll-
- concluded by moving to insert words which
had the effect of preventing Catholics from.hoid-
lila the situation of Governor, or administering
the • Government of his Majesty's colonieri7. or
other foreign possessions. .= .
The House divided•on the qnestion,--
For the Amendment
Against it
The Amendment was consequently-lost -by .
majority of 43.
The other claUses.were then agreed to, and
the Committee were proceeding with the Inter-
course Regulation Bill, when
.Mr. liuTcHiNsoN
suggested that it must be inconvenient to go fur-
ther that night. The House • had just decided
hich he
the Bo isill o;flColaui
(tlidnna
t Bill,
)claitc:l esit;hleTllll3hrceillytl
oul
Conces_sious to
ri
going is into %tvi
was subject to considerable objection, and per-
haps 'the house would think it right after the
diicussion of the evening, to
.postpone fui flier
consideration until to-morrow.- lie had alVaays
felt that unqualified concessions to the Roman
Catholics' would. be wise and liberal' policy„and
in that view he should oppose some.of the res;:riC-
E tions in the second part of the Bill.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD suggested whether it was
I not desirable the discussion should be postponed ?
Sir JOHN NEWPORT expressed an opinion that
it would be. proper to emhody the Bills : as there.
seemed to be a desire, to adjourn the discussich
he should comply with that suggestion. Ileac-
cordingly moved " that the Chairman dO report
progress and ask leave to sit again this day." He
observed, at the same time, that the 13111 might.
he reported to-morrow, printed with the amend-
ments, and read a third time ork Monday.
Lord CASTLEREAGH did not
_object to the ar-
rangement made by the Right Hon. Baronet; he
begged, however, Gentlernen would understand,
that in opposing the restrictions they were op-
posing-the. Bill. itself. If the restrictions werg,lost,
he should oppose the original Bill.
. • •
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and
obtained leave to sit again, this day.
Loi'd PAL,WintsToN gave notice, that on, Fri-
day he should move the Army Miscellaneous
Estimates.—Adjourned at HALT-PAST TwELvi:.

COURT OF A I,DERIVILN.—A Court of Alder-
men was held yesterday, when JOHN GARRATT,
Esq. Citizen and Goldsmith, who was recently
elected Alderman of the Ward of Bridge, was
introduced by his Committee and friends, form-
ing a highly respectable deputation, and was.
sworn into office with the usual formalities.--
JAMES DAVIDSON,, Esq. the senior inhabitant,
made a most impressive and able address to the.
Logo MATort and Court, expressing in terms of.
the highest admiration of the character, talent,
and private worth of Mr. GARRITT, animad-
verting on the arduous and peculiar struggle in
which they had been engaged, and eulogizing •
the impartiality manifested by the Lottn MAYoR
as presiding Officer on that occasion ; Concluding
by expressing' his- decided conviction, that their
worthy Alderman would so perform his official
duties, as not only to prove an ornament to that_
'Court &at also to ensure the entire confidence oX,I
his fellow-citizens.—The Coilrt requested • tilb
City Members, and'otber Members of the CoUrt".'.

having seats in Parliament, to attend to a Bill '
now pending in the House of Comm/111,5u 'pre=
vent delays in County Courts, and for the•knoii is •
.
'easy reeovery of Small 'Debts.

• The- Principal and Professors of. .Marischal
College and University, Aberdeen, have.spOntaT
Ineously conferred the Degree of D. 1). on.th
Rev. JOSEPH PATERSOV, (the of the Ministers of
Montrose.--(AGerdeen Journal.)