The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-18 00:00:00

SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 18, 1845.

of the Noble Lord. Yes, the Pope was strong, and they
. in England must submit to him. He was followed in the same
; argument by the Hon. Member for Canterbury. The whole
of his speech in substance was,' do that which absolutely con-
. tradicts the Coronation oath ; that which is subversive of the
. constitution of the country; that which, if adopted by her
Majesty's Minister's, would render them liable to impeach-
; ment." He would tell the Right Hon. Gentlemen below him
that the country expected from the Government an entire and
unequivocal renunciation of the doctrines propounded by the
Noble Lord and the Hon. Gentleman.—( Hear, hear.) He
thanked the House for the attention with which they had heard
him in the expression of his honest opinions.
Sir J. GRAHAM said—Sir, the Right Hon, Member for
Devonport has expressed a wish that the debate upon this question
should not pass without some declaration on the part of
my Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government or of
myself, as to what the ultimate intentions of the Government
may be on this subject.—( Hear, hear.) It has been
complained of, on the other hand, that this debate
' has been too much prolonged. (Ironical cheers. )
Sir, Ido not think so. I think that neither the Government
nor the country has reason to regret the prolonging of the de-
bate. —(llear, hear.) Because, Sir, I feel that in this moment
of excitement—in any moment of the greatest excitement—an
appeal to the feelings and understanding of the people of this
' country never fails to produce the best results— ( Hear, hear)--
and, I believe, that the appeal to their reason in the very matter
of this debate has already produced the best results, and that
the feeling which we are, not beginning, but carrying out—
( Cheers)—is triumphant —( Cheers.) The lion. Gentleman
the Member for Renfrew has stated that if we had foreseen
the storm which we were raising, we would not have pursued
our present course. But I beg to assure the lion. Gentleman and
the House, that this proposition has been deliberately, earnestly,
and with forethought of all consequences introduced to the
consideration of the House by my Right Hon. Friend and his
colleagues. Sir, I deplore, as much as the Hon. Member for
Birmingham can deplore, the division which this question
creates upon this side of the House. Sir, it is deeply painful
to me that there should be any division—it is deeply painful to
me that we should lose ( I hope the loss will not be permanent)
that we should lose for a time the support of those gen-
tlemen who, upon this side of the House, have declared them-
selves adverse to this proposition.—(Hear, hear. ) Whilst I
deeply deplore the loss of their support upon this occasion,
when we propose to the House a measure of great importance,
and one which upon our responsibility we could not fail
to propose, and we must not hesitate to persevere in. I think it
is our duty to redress any real wrongs of which Ireland has
to complain.—(Cheers.) And I do not hesitate to say, that
this measure is a commencement of a better state of
things.—( Great cheering.) I must sly still further, that I
am confident, that if we did not lay the foundation of that
better policy by this measure, any other would give way.—
( Cheers.) But what are the arguments on the other side ?
My Right Hon. Friend, the Member for the University of
Oxford, argues that the effect of the measure will be to
damage the Protestant Establishment in these realms—
whilst the lion. Gentleman, the actual if not the virtual re-
presentative of the University of Durham, opposed the measure
because it was calculated to perpetuate that Establishment.
Yet, Sir, I have heard no speech so conclusive in favour of
the measure as that of the Hon. Member for Durham, who
spoke so fervently against all establishments and all endow-
ments —(Cheers.) But the Hon. Member at the same time
admitted that if it were not for his opposition to establishments
of every kind, he would support the measure for its conciliatory
tendency.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Member for Edin-
burgh charges me with inconsistency as a Member of the Go-
vernment, in supporting this measure.—( Hear, hear.) He
says that the policy which we have hitherto pursued has been
to uphold the Protestant ascendancy in Ireland.—( Cheers. )
Now, Sir, observe what is the answer of the Government to
that accusation.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The various
accusations against us repel each other, and many of
them refute themselves.—( Loud cheers.) Some Gentlemen
have told us that we were conferring greater strength
and permanence on the Established Church. The Hon. and
Learned Member for Dublin says that the clergy are reduced
to the most grievous state, by the measures of those now in
opposition to the Government. Well, what was the first mea-
sure which he mentioned, as an instance of our inconsistency?
Why, the Church Temporalities Bill. But that was the mea-
sure of my Noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies.—
( Cheers.) The next was the Tithe Composition Act. That
also was introduced by my Noble Friend the Secretary for the
Colonies. The measure was adopted by the Government of
Lord Melbourne, in 1834 ; and Lord Stanley and myself,
being in Opposition, gave it our most strenuous and decided
support.—( Cheers.) Of what other measure does the Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin complain ? Why, of
the national system of education. That also was the work of
my Noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies.—( Cheers. )
Another Hon. Member complained that in all offices strangers
were preferred by the present Government. Is that the fact ?
—( Hear, hear.) When vacancies occurred upon the bench,
we preferred to the bench Pennefather arid Blackburn, and
Lefroy and Jackson.—( Cheers.) But these are not the accu-
sations against which I think it most difficult to defend the
Government. But allow me to tell the Hon. and Learned Re-
corder for Dublin, that if he thinks the day when Protestant
ascendancy could be maintained in Ireland is not yet passed,
he is mistaken.—(Great cheering.) The day is passed—
( Renewed eheering)—and I will not be one to attempt to go.
vent Ireland upon his principles.—( Very great cheering. )
Now, Sir, I think that so far as my consistency is concerned,
I have stated enough to show that uniformly, whether in
Opposition or in the Government, I have endeavoured to
act steadily up to the principles as enunciated by
us in the Temporalities Act. Again, in the scheme
of national education, and practically in principle, by the
Tithe Commutation Acts. With respect to the Hon. Gentle-
men opposite, I entertain but little difference with them, for I
have never expressed an opinion as an individual that I was at
all opposed to the endowment of the Roman Catholic clergy of
Ireland. That point was raised repeatedly. i think it was
raised when I was in Opposition ; and I am quite sure it was
raised two or three years ago ; and in the course of the dis-
cussion the Hon. Member for Kilkenny said with respect to
the endowment of the College of Maynooth, it was an arrange-
ment to which he would not give his consent. I stated then
that it was my belief, whatever might have been the circum-
stances which at any former period would have rendered such a
course impracticable, and although there existed an unwilling-
ness on the part of the Irish clergy and the British public to
maintain such an institution, yet my own private feelings
and judgment would not then prevent me from mak-
ing such an endowment. A slight differsnce, however,
has always existed between me and the Noble Lord
opposite, namely, with respect to the propriety of withdrawing
the funds for endowing such an institution from the property
of the Protestant Church Establishment in Ireland. Upon that
point I have a decided opinion, and I have endeavoured to
adhere to it uniformly, and I still adhere to it, because I have
an insuperable objection to such an arrangement. I repeat, I
have never swerved from that opinion—l have ever kept to
it, and certainly I will not give it up now. Now, Sir, the
lion. Gentleman the Member for Belfast, in common with
many other Hon. Gentlemer who have addressed the House in
the course of this debate, has referred to a particular expres.
sion I used in my place in Parliament—not when in Opposition,
but since I have assumed office. It was used by me in 1842,
during the discussion on the Arms' Bill. Now I will beg the
House to remember the circumstances of that Act. I have
stated that some time before a discussion arose relative to this
institution, in the course of which it was announced to the
House that it was the intention of the Government to fulfil a
pledge which they had given in Opposition, to bring forward a
measure for the registration of county voters in Ireland, and
for enlarging the elective franchise in that country. It had
also been announced on the part of the Government, that they
intended to take an early opportunity to bring in a Bill
relative to the regulation of the municipal franchise
in Ireland. That measure was conceived in a spirit which we
had hoped and believed would have been most satisfactory.
Well, we redeemed all our pledges, given while we were in
Opposition, with respect to taking precautions against the con-
tinuance of perjury which might follow a defective registra-
tion. We took certain precautions which had the effect of
preventing a great amount of perjury in Ireland. We brought
in those measures which brought the county franchise upon a
defined and settled principle ; and in the year in which they
were introduced, and almost co-existent with these propositions,
measures were brought forward of a very different character,
certainly,
on the part of the Government. It became their duty
to revive the Arms' Act, and certainly upon that occasion I did
make use of the expression which has been attributed to me,
but really Ido not think it altogether fair that I should be
taunted now with having used it,
seeing that it was suffi-
ciently explained in this House soon after it escaped my lips.
The expression I used was " that concession tow.rds Ireland
had already reached its utmost limits." I have said that that
expression was explained. I will do more. I admit that ex-
pression, and I regret having used it.—(Loud Opposition
cheers.) I say more, that where the feelings and interests of a
nation are concerned an intemperate or ungarded expression on
the part of a Minister is a serious offence. I say I am sorry
for having used it. I deeply regret it, and I can only say that
upon my conscience, and from the bottom of my heart, my at-
tachment to Ireland was better than my word.—( Loud cheers. )
Now, Sir, I am bound to say, that after I had used this ex-
pression the public mind of Ireland became very much ex-
cited, and the measures to which I have adverted, after they
had received the Legislative sanction, and notwithstanding they
were introduced for the relief and at the wish of the people of
Ireland, were all but rejected. The Government last year
acting upon a suggestion which had been thrown out
by an Honourable Member who sits on the opposite of
the House—l think it was the Noble Lord —the
th
Member for Tiverton, brought in a measure which, without
proposing on the part of the State a direct endowment of the
Roman Catholic clergy, enacted something which was less ob-
jectionable in principle. It was introduced by the willing con-
sent and co-operation of the wealthy landlords of Ireland, and
enabled them to leave property to the Roman Catholic clergy
which would progress and gradually reach endowments--
(Hear, hear.) I say her Majesty's Government directed
their attention to that subject, and we introduced
the question into this House after great deliberation.
The measure certainly produced an effect which far exceeded
our expectations, and which satisfied us. It was a measure
which would be followed by, and must be productive of, the
greatest possible good. Individually a portion of the Roman
Catholic clergy had been opposed to that measure, and they
resisted it for a time with great force and strength. On the
other hand, it was supported by others of the clergy boldly and
firmly, and they had co-operated with the Government in
effecting and carrying out that useful measure. The
hierarchy of Ireland were divided in opinion with
respect to that measure, but the majority of them
have since aided the Government in carrying the measure
into operation. Previous to the Bill which is now under the
consideration of the House being contemplated, the Roman
Catholic archbishops and bishops of Ireland sought for an in-
crease of this grant, and the question then, for the first time,
presented itself to us. We felt ourselves that there was no-
thing wrong
in principl eT- that there was nothing inconsistent
with our duty to our Protestant Sovereign, or to the Pro-
testant Church in Ireland—to increase the grant, because
it was not like a direct endowment. —( Hear, hear.)
No ! we were certainly not prepared to endow the
Roman Catholic clergy directly; but here is,apaoru willticula grantextend
rteii
V
which
nic
will accept," andhtheßomanCath Catholic
hierarchy say, ,ii y
seeing that there was not:objection to it on
principle, we thought it our duty to concede it. We give it
and the Roman Catholic clergy gratefully accept it. We
ouirable Friend the Member
re measure we are now dis-
cussing, that in principle it is not only justifiable, but it is ex-
pedient,Dngubalnil' Now,h
hearsc e commentedStirh'eomriygr 13in °
nf to
n the speech made by my
for
Right Honourable Friend the Mceiyend the Member for Bir-
egmuebsetrionfoorf ,
ortance. Now, Sir, I must
this grant
Pt
Hon. Gentleman the mNswVahaiynso
Bir-
mingham uhhnaah
tmmats
the
en
ors
nat;asi
argument
considers
r ebhnuiatttt
oomff t
t)ghi.
ireeHe
aßot
importance.
mo
Mem-
ber for Edinburgh on this point was put possibly with more
than his usual force; and it appeared to me to be perfectly
triumphant. In the question which we are now discussing,
there is though not in the letter at least in the spirit something
more important than the additional sum of money. But, as I
said before, that part of the question has been triumphantly
d
question. ar.
)Now, with respect to the religious
part 1 admit that, in the year 1785, when
i‘isapyo
was first founded—first recognised by a Parliamen-
tary tethh:eft .he
tioreligious question was then raised, whether a
ino:
ofeo
od t
Protestant State should establish and endow a seminary for
exclusively teaching the Roman Catholic priesthood—in short,
at all interfering with their religious discipline? I conceive
that to be a grave religious question, and I believe it was so
considered at the time, or Lord Kingsley would not have been
sent over to Ireland in the room of Lord Fitzwilliam, who had
held out, in his speeches as Lord-Lieutenant, expectations to
the Irish people of larger concessions than the riovernmeut

was prepared to give. Be it observed that the elective fran-
chise had been given to the Roman Catholics of Ireland two
years before, and when we remember the great numerical supe-
riority of the Roman Catholics of that country over their Pro-
testant fellow-subjects, I must say that even at that time it was
clear, what experience since has proved, that that fundamental
concession must, sooner or later, be the groundwork of the
largest extension of civil and religious liberty. But to return
to the circumstances of 1795. Lord Camden was sent out to
supersede Lord Fitzwilliam; and, although he was not autho-
rised to go the length which Lord Fitzwilliam had gone in the
promise of civil equality, to the Roman Catholics of that coun-
try, yet he was distinctly instructed to propose further indul-
geni_es to her Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects in that country:;
and within ten days of his arrival, his first measure, after con-
sulting Lord Chancellor Clare; Agar, Archbishop of Cashel;
Foster, the then Speaker ; and Sir J. Parnell, then Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer, was to send to the home Government,
advisedly, the draft of the Act of 1795, which endowed the Col-
lege of Maynooth. The home Government deliberated upon
the proposition. My Right Hon. Friend stated that the Home
Secretary at that time was also at that time Chancellor
of the University of Oxford ; and it has been most cor-
rectly stated that, before the measure of 1795 was
adopted by them, the Government draft of the Bill was
submitted to the Archbishop of Canterbury. It is im-
possible to conceive more calm deliberation upon any matter.
Well, that Bill became law, and it proceeded in dis-
tinct +erms to endow the College of Maynooth as it is now es-
tablished. Yet it is said that we are now discussing for the
first time a Bill which recognises by vote the ex-
istence of the Roman Catholic religion and hierar-
chy in Ireland. But, Sir, I deny that proposition.
There is nothing in the constitution of this country which ren-
dered it impossible, impolitic, or inexpedient to endow a semi-
nary set apart for the Roman Catholics. Without the inter-
ference of religious education, the Government directly recog-
nised the: Roman Catholic religion as existing in Ireland with
its hierarchy. How do I endeavour to show that ? First of
a.l, if any bye law was made respecting the College, it should
come to the Lord-Lieutenant, who had the power of giving it
his veto, and when it was thought expedient that trustees
should be appointed, Protestants were appointed as rustees, as
well as Roman Catholics ; and on account of more interference
being displayed in the affairs of the College by those who were
Protestants, it was ultimately thought expedient that they
should be abrogated. But to show the connexion between the
State and the College of Maynooth, it is only necessary to show
that every bye-law must be submitted and has been for fifty
years submitted to the Lord-Lieutenant for his sanction ; they
submit a bye-law and he can veto it, and it can only become a
bye-law by his having given it his veto--(Hear' hear. )
A president of the College cannot enter on his du•
ties without his having been acceded to by the Lord-
Lieutenant. I hold in my hand a return which was laid on
the table of the House of Parliament, which showed by the re-
gulations of the College of Maynooth, according to the bye-
laws, the number of students receiving endowments, for they
were fixed to a certain number, which had been distributed

amongst different Bishops of different districts in Ireland, and
there is further stated in this return from Maynooth the name
of each student and the name of each diocese. Now here is a
bye-law sanctioned by the Lord-Lieutenant and laid on the
table by order of the House of Lords, showing bow the Roman
Catholic religion and its hierarchy were recognized by the
State. It is stated that all those who object to this grant on
account of the voluntary principle might entertain a double ob-
jection in this case because the grant is about to be increased.
Ido not think that that reasoning is very effective, and if there
is any principle in the objection on the part of the Protestants,
that principle is violated by the application of the public funds
to numerous endowments in the colonies ; they are not only
given to the orthodox Presbyterians, but also every year we
are in the habit of voting a sum to the Presbyterian establish-
ment in Scotland, and to the Dissenters in the Hebrides. I
think that there are no religious grounds for objecting to a
practice which has for so long a time been uninterrupted. I
will net rely on a compact, that has been already argued; I do
not think that there was a compact, but I think that there was
a nominal engagement which the Parliament ought to recog-
nise. Some state that there was a compact, it transpired after
the Union. It has been shown that a compact existed for
twenty years, and, at the expiration of that period, the matter
was reconsidered, and the Government, by the adoption of the
endowment, bound themselves to the contract again. Whether
it is the matter of a compact or of an honorary engagement, I
think that it rests on the strongest possible grounds ;
but Ido not wish to rest it on any such grounds.—( Hear,
hear.) I look upon it in this light, that seven millions of
the population of Ireland profess the Roman Catholic
religion.—( Cheers.) I differ altogether from the Hon. Gen-
tleman who has just sat down ; lie said that the Roman Ca-
tholic religion was an awful delusion.—( Cheers and laughter. )
I agree with the sentiments laid down in the admirable speech
of the Hon. Member for Devonport ; I am a sincere uncom-
promising Protestant; I am not ashamed to be a Protestant;

but still I cannot fora moment imagine that the Roman Ca-
tholic religion is an awful delusion. —( Cheers. ) I remember
that it is a Christian creed, that it is the creed of the great
majority of Christians—( Hear)—and though there is an impor-
tant difference between the Protestant and Roman Catholic
religion, yet we agree with them in the main points, and to
say that the Roman Catholic religion is an awful delusion,
would be the destruction of every religious hope. I do not
deny that the policy of Great Britain to that country has been
at different times cruel—(Cheers)—but the people always ad-
hered to their religious tenets most uninterruptedly. Penal
laws, penalties and privations have been equally unsuc-
cessful in destroying their religious feeling. The Roman
Catholics are now the great majority of the population of the
people of Ireland, and are one-fourth of her Majesty's subjects
in the United Kingdom. You cannot interrupt them ; but
they are now willing to accept this small boon in aid of the
education of the clergy who are to be spiritual advisers of the
greater number of the people. Can we then refuse a grant so
accepted and so offered on the grounds of a religious princi-
ple ? On the contrary, I think that the religious principle
has been settled fifty years ago. We cannot
refuse it through pecuniary motives, for such would be beneath
our contempt ; it is nothing for us, and it is everything to
those who receive it. I will now refer to what was stated by
my Honourable Friend with respect to the institution itself.
He commented on the miserable appearance of the professors
and students. Why do you keep them beggars and then blame
them for being so?—(Cheers.) They were, after all, the
clergy of the people, and they must be taught.—(Loud
cheers.) I do not believe the assertion that they be-
long to the lower grade of society. They are drawn
not from the lower class, but from the middle class. They
are trusted by the people, and they perform their duty to the
people. There exists the power of constant visitation, and
we have communication with the president, who inspects the
seminary. Mr. Fi ankland Lewis, who was the head of a Com-
mission to inquire into the system of education in Maynooth
in 182 d, assures us that he was for two days present at the
College examination, and that the curriculum of ecclesiastical
education was such as to ensure honours in any of the English
Universities. The facility of turning English into Latin,
he says, surprised him, and that, as a literary
seminary, it is by no means to be despised. Now,
let me ask some Honourable Members who have opposed this
measure upon grounds affecting the interests of Irish landed
proprietors, one or two questions. Suppose that certain Mem-
bers of this House happen to be Protestant landlords, and that
they have a Roman Catholic tenantry on their estates, I would
ask these Gentlemen would they prefer an uneducated
population to take charge of the cultivation of
their estates, instead of a number of well-in-
formed, educated gentlemen ?—( Hear, hear.) I be-
lieve I need not wait for a reply.—(Cheers.) I will not go
over the various points already discussed before this House
upon this subject, for I should only weary the House by doing
so, without perhaps strengthening my argument. I shall
therefore content myself by saying that I have the strongest
and deepest conviction that, such is the feeling of grati-
tude in heart in the Irish people, and so keen
their sense of being laid under bligation for fa-
vours conferred, that they will thankfully accept this
measure as a boon, and that the result will be to bind them to
this country by bonds more enduring than any hitherto known,
and that the union between the two countries will become
more lasting than ever, because it will now be consummated by
the blessings of happiness, peace, and good feeling ; and I hope
happier days for both countries will' be the result. I do
think, besides, that this measure will tend to the better security
of the Protestant Church, both in this country and in Ireland
—(Cheers)—but I deny that a refusal of it will have any such
effect.—( Hear, hear.) There are many ether important ques-
tions before the Government in reference to Ireland;
but this is one of the most! important of them all,
and, therefore, I tell you that, after having deeply
and painfully reflected upon it, I feel satisfied that no
proposition of the State could be brought forward, the rejec-
tion of which would be attended with more dangerous conse-
quences to both countries.---(Loud cheers from both sides of
the House.) I have listened to the speech of the Hon. Mem-
ber, who may well be called the father of this House—he is a
Gentleman of great and many years' experience, and
one of undoubted authority upon all questions upon
which controverted opinions may exist.—( Cries of
Hear, hear".) That Gentleman has stated frankly and
fairly his opinion upon this subject, but he has also stated
what he considered to be the justice of it more strongly than he
has upon any other measure. And what did that Hon. Mem-
ber say? Why, that he came down to the House last night,
and declared that though no circumstances could compel him
to give a vote upon such a question in favour of it some time age,
yet he now felt so convinced of its justice and necessity, that he
never gave a vote that afforded him more sincere
gratification, and therefore he gave the measure his most cor-
dial support.—(Loud cheers.) Some Hon. Member behind
me has laughed; but I say this is no laughing matter; it is a
measure introduced to this House, after having received the
approbation of her Majesty, and above all, it is one that will
be received in Ireland with feelings of the deepest gratitude ;
but the rejection of it would be attended with results that
would spread the greatest dismay in that country, and the
greatest excitement in this.—( Loud cheers.)
Mr. MACLEAN next rose to address the House, but he was
speaking for a considerable time before a word he uttered
could be heard in the gallery, owing to his own low tine of
voice, and the continual noise kept up by the incessant crowd
of Members, who thronged the door-way, in their eagerness
to leave the House. He was understood to say that this
proposition of the Government had placed the country in
circumstances of great and peculiar excitement, for he
contended that the proposition was one which involved a
violation of principle. He would ask, was there a doubt
upon the mind of any rational man that the result of this
measure, if carried, would be, that the Government would be
called on to pay the Roman Catholic Clergy ?—( Hear, hear.)
He did not speak in any hostility to that Church. He would
not advert to the arguments respecting the destitution of the
Catholics.—( Hear, hear.) The measure now before the
House went to prevent the evil of which his Hon.
Friend had complained, and he had asserted that it was the
reasonable result of this measure that they would not send
the Catholic priests into the world to live on the eleemosynary
provision of their flocks; that if they intended to make them
gentlemen' they should not leave them with the prevision of
beggars. He had been much astonished at the speech of his
Right Honourable Friend the Member for Ne-
wark ( Mr. Gladstone), who, in the course of his
communications with the Right Honourable Baronet at the
head of 'the Government, seemed not to have understood
the reasons on which he left the Cabinet, or at least not to
have made them clearly known to the House. If the plea were
to he put forward, that this grant was to be made in considera-
tion of the number of the Roman Catholic subjects of her Ma-
jesty, on what principle, he would ask, was it that they refused
endowments to the numerous congregations of Dissenters?
If the project introduced by her Majesty's Ministers
education, he
had
been
c
merely for the improvement of a mca
(Ir. Maclean) conceived that no ade_atholic subjects of objectionheriwouldhave been
made to any such relief to the Roman Catholic
Majesty in Ireland. But when the advantage to be cc*.
ferred on the College of Maynooth, was not only to place
it on a level, but above the position of Oxford, Cambridge,
and Dublin, it was not to be wondered at that in that
House great opposition raft should have been offered to the .
sure, nor could it be matter of surprise that the clergy of the
country should have been opposed to this grant to the College,
when it was recollected what had been the opposition of the
members of the College to the Church of England. And when
he recollected what these doctrines were, he was surprised,
though he could not but admire the zeal and ability
which characterised the speech of his Noble Friend the
Member for Newark (Lord John Manners), when he spoke
of that portion of our eventful history by which the religion of
these kingdoms had been settled, and Which he ( Mr. Maclean)
must look upon as one of the greatest events in the annals of
the country. The Noble Lord had spoken of the stadtholder
of Holland as merely the agent of that Dutch conquest
which had unsettled the Romish relyon in these szfr\ras3

but he must continue to think that the stadtholder of Holland
was one of the greatest characters of that history, and that had
it not been for him their country never could have en-
joyed the advantages of religious education which it now pos-
sessed, and those many advantages which had towed from it.
He could not but congratulate the Right Honourable
Baronet and his Honourable Friend on their obtaining a
new ally in the Honourable Member for Durham, but he
did not think that the Honourable Gentleman was
paying any very distinguished compliment to Ireland, when he
derided the• Protestant clergy of England ; and-he conceived that
the Roman Catholie clergy themselves would not feel inclined
to accept this boon as hush money ; and he thought nothing
would be felt as more insulting than that this should be thrown
to them as a sop, and as hush money to abate their agitation.
He had, indeed, no hesitation in asserting that this hush money
would act neither as a bribe nor as a reason
to induce them to forsake that which they felt to
be their duty. What he would ask on this point, what
was really the case, and what had been the cause of the foun-
dat on of the College of Maynooth. It was notorious that it
had been projected and established for the purpose of prevent-
ing the increase of democratical principles. It was hoped that
at the establishment of a Roman Catholic College that the stu-
dents for the priesthood would provide them will all the fa-
cilities which they required and thus 1 recent that tendency to-
wards foreign connection which had always been felt as a weak-
ness by England. But what, he would ask, had been the expe-
rience of the last fifty years of Maynooth ? Had that demo-
cratic feeling subsided, or was it not notorious that it had
very largely increased ? Was it not notorious that the whole
of the Roman Catholic clergy were at this moment in a
decided and open opposition to the Government ? Let the
Roman Catholic and the Protestant clergy be com-
pared in their allegiance to the throne, and the inquisition
would soon show the difference of their principles, and he was
led to believe that. if their claims were not satisfied that the
principles of the Roman Catholic clergy would be still more
evident. He might cite the opinions of the Hon. Member for
Waterford, of whom it was impossible to speak without senti-
ments of the deepest respect, and whom he believed to be one
of the most useful Members in that House, and in saying this
he intended no disrespect to the Hon. Member for Dungarvon,
and he desired to speak so that he should not offend the
most sensitive feelings. He told them that the course pur.
sued at the College, and the consequences of that course, were
alike calculated to foster feelings of the most earnest affection and
delicate regard for the Establishment to which they were attached.
It was known that the members of the Catholic Church would
stop at nothing in propagating their faith. This measure
would have the effect of establishing two Churches, and a
bullum intestinum of the most ferocious description would be
the result. Let them remember the words of a great man in
his dying moments—the words which he (Mr. Maclean)
had heard the Right Hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary
himself quote—let them remember the words of Lord William
Russell when on the scaffold—" I do believe that Popery is
making great strides in this kingdom, and those who wish to
forward it will hesitate at no step for its advancement, and I
lament that many Protestants lend their helping hand to it."
Mr. S. CRAWFORD then moved the adjournment of the
debate, which was immediately agreed to.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned shortly after Twelve o'Clock.