The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-12 00:00:00

DOG-STEALING BILL.

Mr. LIDDF.LL proposed the second reading of the above-
named Bill, which would have the effect of imposing a punish-
ment of seven years' transportation for dog-stealing, on con-

riction.

Mr. HUME considered the Bill was very badly drawn up,
for the effect of clause the third proposed, that if a dog followed
a man he would be liable to be transported, and besides, the
Bill would expose any person to much inconvenience in case a
dog strayed by accident into his house, or was designedly left
there. The Bill provided, that any person in whose house
a strayed or stolen dog was supposed to be, would be liable to
be served with a search-warrant, and to appear before a ma-
gistrate to account for the presence of the dog on his premises.
Those who kept dogs ought to look after them, and no Act of
Parliament, in his opinion, was needed. Supposing he had a good-
natured cook in his house, who was in the habit of giving a
strange dog a bone now and then, which was very frequently
the case, and as the dog would most likely be in the kitchen,
a search-warrant might be issued, and he would be exposed
to great inconvenience entirely through the good nature of
his cook. There existed a system of smuggling on the bounda-
ries of France and Belgium, which was carried on entirely by
means of dogs trained for the purpose. These dogs are kept
and fed within the French territories, and whenever they are
taken within the environs of Belgium they are flogged most un-
mercifully. At the sight of a douanier, or Custom-house officer,
and having pa.reels of tobacco, silks, and other articles tied round
their necks, they are immediately let loose, and off they scamper
safe with their smuggled goods beyond the reach of the agents of
the law. It was owing to the possessors of dogs letting them go
astray from home, that they were lost.—(Laughter.) Every man
should lock up his dog until he wanted him.—( Laughter. )
If this Bill be wanted, let the Government bring it in. He
begged to move that it be read a second time that day six
months.

Captain BERKELEY said that dog-stealing had become an
intolerable nuisance in London, and therefore he hoped the
Hon. Member would persevere with his Bill.
Major BERESFORD said that if the Hon. Member for
Montrose had read the evidence, he would not have spoken
upon this subject as he had. Doga were a valuable property,
and had a right to be protected.

Mr. WAINURTON conceived that the punishment con-
tained in the Bill was disproportioned to the offence, when
he recollected the small offences for which people
were punished with transportation. What would the
Secretary of State for the Home Department say
of transportation, which had been lately substituted for
capital punishment, being made the punishment also for the
second offence of dog-stealing ?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM could not remain silent after the
appeal made to him by the Honourable Member for Kendal,
especially as such silence would probably be misinterpreted.
As to the graduation .of punishment, a few years ago sheep-
stealing was punished by death, and he never could understand
why the common law of this country should regard the posses-
sion of dogs as base property. He considered such a distinc-
tion insupportable and anomalous, and as the provisions of the
present Bill did not contemplate the removal of such objections,
and the recognising these domestic animals among the rights of
property, he should give his support to„ the second reading,
reserving for himself the right of examining more closely
into its details, previous to the Bill going into Committee.
Mr. WATSON said that the law had very wisely stated that
dogs, being of wandering habits, could not be the subject of
larceny. The words of the Act at present in force were,
that if any person should be found in possession of
a stolen dog, or the skin thereof, he should be liable to heavy
penalties. Surely that was enough.—(Hear, hear.) Before
the Committee of Inquiry up stairs several witnesses were
brought forward who had lost dogs, and the most distressing
case amongst them was that of a man who had lost a pug dog.
—(A laugh.) Ha opposed the Bill.
Mr. RICARDO also opposed the Bill.

Mr. ESTGOURT said that the Bill was monstrous and un-
just, and he would oppose it to the utmost of his power.
Sir G. STRICKLAND opposed the Bill. Was a poor
man to be punished for being found in possession of a dog
which he bad perhaps found starving in the streets, and which
from motives of kindness he had taken to his home.

liir-.—LID-DELL said the attacks were as foolish and igno-
rant as any provision in the Bill. A Commissioner of Police,
who was examined before the Committee, said he thought the
present law was in a most unsatisfactory condition. It was
also proved before the Committee that 1,0001. had been levied
on the London public in one year by these artful dog-stealers.
Mr. FOSTER thought that it was a mere waste of the pub-
lic time to legislate on such a frivolous and absurd subject. and
he begged the House to observe the gravity of the Right Hon.
Baronet opposite (Sir J. Graham) as an evidence of the serious
light in which that Gentleman treated the subject. (Laughter. )
Mr. BRIGHT said that dogs were running about the
streets so numerously, that it was impossible to know whose
dogs they were. He considered that there was at present a
sufficient protection for that kind of property, and if this Bill
passed there would be an undue and anunnecessary protection
given, which would increase, rather than abate, the nuisance.
He thought, that if they adopted the principle with respect to
dogs, they should alsoi apply it to another species of property
equally as valuable—he e meant the domestic cat.—(Laughter.)
He had no doubt e—
there
were many ladies who would cordially
sanction the introduction of such a measure. He objected.
however, to that House gislating on such frivolous Bills, and
would vote, with great
against the clause.
After a few words frLealVsl.7.eLiddell, Mr. Henley, and Mr.
Darby,
Mr. AGLIONBY said he could see no reason why dogs
should not be protected from the robber as well as any other
property.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading ........................... 67
Against it
Majority for the second ....... ....
. ......
2344
COUNTY RATES BILL. .....
Sir J. Y. BULLER moved the second reading of the County_
rates Bill, the principle of which was to enable the Cou
Magistrates to appoint a Committee, selected from their own
body, who in their turn should appoint a valuator and collector
of rates; from these officers they could ascertain the several
particulars which would enable them to determine and fix a
rate. Such being the main feature of the Bill, he would not
then enter into its details. Improvements or amendments could
be made on it when in Committee, and he therefore trusted no
opposition would be given to its second reading pro
Mr. M. GIBSON thought the questiun of local taxation
was in a most complicated and unintelligible state, and any
measure which would place it upon a more satisfactory footing,
would net only be satisfactory, but invaluable. But regarding
as he did the present measure as one neither calculated to re-
move nor diminish the objections at present existing, he called
upon Hon. Members to pause before they passed it into a law.
It gave the adjudication of apportionment into the hands of in-
terested parties, and as to rating, it made the mode of assess- r
ment, according to the annual, instead of the intrinsic, value of I
the property, and thus house property would be rated at double
the value of land, and according to the net annual value. But
such was a most unfair criterion, and, like the Bill itself, un-

sound in principle and deficient in detail. He hoped the mea-
sure would be, therefore, taken out of the hands of amateurs
and that the Government would ere long introduce another
more comprehensive and satisfactery.
Lord EBRINGTON conjured the House not to be led away
by the arguments of the last speaker. No new principle was
introduced by the Bill, which merely proposed a more efficient
mode of levying rates at a similar proportion, let the nature of
the property be what it might. Cottages were now almost
wholly exempt from assessment, and the present system of
levying county rates was objectionable and unfair, and the
measure before the House was calculated to prove highly ad-
vantageous.

Mi.' DARBY, while objecting to neither the second reading
of the Bill pro forma, nor the system of valuation and rating
adopted in it, disapproved of the mode of assessment, and
the power given to magistrates of deciding the amount of
valuation.

Mr. BROTHERTON suggested that more mature con-
sideration should be given to the defects already pointed out in
the measure, before a second reading should be given it.
Mr. HENLEY regarded the principle of the Bill as sound,
and its details efficient, and supported its second reading.
Mr. HUME objected to the Bill, as he thought it would
create a second mode of valuation, which would only entail
confusion and increased expense in every department of its
working. Strange to tell, there was no mode of auditing the
county accounts but by the magistrates who assessed them, and
he thought this fact alone sufficiently evinced the necessity of
some change being introduced into the system. lie would
suggest that auditors should be appointed to every county in
the same way that auditors were appointed to joint-stock
companies.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the measure did not deal with the
whole question of the county rate, but merely established'a
more uniform and regular mode of valuing and rating property
to the fund. With regard to the objections of the Honourable
Member who had last addressed the House, that there
were no auditors of the county accounts, he thought there
was a sufficient check upon the accounts, in the circumstance of
their being published every half year in the various newspapers of
the country. He quite agreed with the Noble Lord, the Mem-
ber for Plymouth, that it was important that some steps should
be taken for carrying into effect the suggestions of the Poor-
law Commissioners, and he could assure the Noble Lord that
the report of that body was now under the consideration of Go-
vernment, and he looked forward to the early introduction of a
more large and comprehensive measure, for placing the subject
of county rates upon a more firm and settled footing.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Friday.
SMOKE PROHIBITION BILL.

- -
The blouse then went into Committee on the Smoke Prohi-
bition Bill. _

Mr. HAWES objected to the first clause, which related to
the appointment of surveyors under the Bill, and urged the
Committee either to postpone or expunge it.
Mr. M'KINNON could not consent to allow the clause to
be struck out or postponed, because it would destroy the Bill
altogether.
Lord LINCOLN objected to the clause, because his own
Bill for improving the sanatory regulations of large towns
would establish a body of inspectors, and in them ought to be
vested the power of seeing the provisions of the present Bill
properly and fairly carried out.
Mr. AGLIONBY supported the clause, and urged the ne-
cessity for having a separate body of inspectors under this Bill.
An HON. MEMBER here called the attention of the Chair-
man to the fact that there were not forty Members present.
Strangers were therefore ordered to m ithdraw, and the
Chairman, having ascertained that there were only twenty-
nine Members in attendance, the House resumed, when the
Chairman reported accordingly.
The House then, at a Quarter•past Seven, adjourned till
to-morrow.

THE GRAND CALEDONIAN BALL
On Monday night the annual fancy dress ball, the fund
arising from which are appropriated to the benefit of the
Scottish Hospital and the Caledonian Asylum, took place
at Willis's Rooms (Almack's), King-street, St. James's.
It must have been gratifying to the parties engaged in
promoting the objects of the entertainment to have wit-
nessed such a very crowded and brilliant reFecm'on, for although
above 1,100 vouchers were exchanged, little short of 1,000
persons were present, including a large number of the mem-
bers of the aristocracy.
At ten o'clock the company began to arrive in quick suc-
cession, and it was after one before the carriages discontinued
to set down. The rooms were admirably decorated by a pro-
fusion of the choicest plants, and brilliantly illuminated. At
the east end of the ball-room a number of raised benches
were set apart for the ladies patronesses. The " card-
room " and principal refreshment room were both de-
votcd for the supply of the ordinary refreshments, and in the
supper-room below tables were provided with the customary
decription of delicacies.
There were two quadrille bands in the ball-room, Jullien
and his corps occupying the principal orchestra.
At eleven o'clock precisely the Highland boys educated
at the Caledonian Asylum were inspected by the Duke of
Montrose, the Duke of Roxburglie, the Marquis of Huffily,
the lion. Fox llaule, Messrs. H. Rose, G. Bain, and Con-
tain C. Forbes. Directors, after which the whole of the boys
joined in single file, and headed by the pipers of the High-
land Society and the Marquis of Breadalbane, and the noble-
men and gentlemen above mentioned, passed up the stair-
case to the ball-room, and there paraded round the room
It was remarked that all the boys were apparently in the
best of health, and were particularly clean in their appear-
ance. Immediately after the boys had retired dancing com-
menced.

The Highland reel was with the Strathspey danced several
times in the course of the night, and we recognised as taking
part in those national dances the Ladies Anne and Louisa
Primrose, Ladies Lucy and Charlotte Herbert, the Ladies
Charteris, Lady Elizabeth Duncan, Miss Duff, Miss Baillie,
Lord Dupplin, Hon. Captain Murray, the Marquis of
Douglas, Lord Glenlyon, Captain Cumming Gordon, Sir H.
Dalrymple, Sir A. Macdonald, Mr. J. Dalrymple, Mr. J. Dud,
Mr. Campbell (of Islay), &c. The ball commenced with the
Highland quadrille.
Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cam-
-bridge were absent in consequence of the death of a near
relative of the Royal Duchess, and her Royal Highness the
Duchess of Gloucester sent an excuse.
The Duchess of Norfolk, the Duchess of Montrose, the
Duchess of Somerset, the Duchess of Roxburghe, the
Duchess of Sutherland, the Countess of Pelvis, the Mar-.
chioness of Breadalbane, Lady Emily Foley, the Countess of
Haddington, the Countess of Kinnoul, the Countess of Rose-
bery, the Countess of Camperdown, Lady Willoughby
D'Eresby, and Lady Augusta Gordon Hallyburton, were the
ladies patronesses who kindly promoted the interests of the
ball by their personal attendance. These distinguished
ladies arrived with their respective parties early, and were
shown to the" tea-room." . _ _

The Duchess of Bucclench was alone prevented by her
Majesty's command to join the royal circle at Windsor
Castle from being present. The Noble Duke, however,
came as soon as the House of Lords adjourned. his Grace
appeared in the full uniform of the Royal Archers, the Queen's
body guard for Scotland, of which ancient corps the Noble
Duke is Captain General.
The ball costumes were in general very superb, but o
course we cannot be expected to particularise the whole.
We may safely include those of the Duchess of Sutherland,
the Duchess of Norfolk-, the Duchess of Somerset, the
Duchess of Montrose, the Duchess of Roxburghe, Lady
Willoughby D'Eresby, the Countess of Rosebery, Mrs. W.
H. Russell, the Marchioness of Breadalbane, the Countess of
Kinnoul, Lady Emily Foley, the Duchess de Coigny, &c., as
among the most recherche as regards the taste displayed, as
well as from the value of the rich jewels they wore on the
occasion. Mrs. Russell appeared in the beautiful dress she
wore at the royal bal costume, and the Countess of Kinnoul
and Lady Willoughby wore tartan dresses. A majority of
the female portion of the company had scarfs of different
tartans.

Lord Alfred Paget, Mr. Russell, Captain G. Cumming, and
indeed above fifty gentlemen, wore the same dresses and uni-
forms in which they appeared at Buckingham Palace on
Friday last, but there were not above twenty ladies who
availed themselves of that precise costume, as it seems in.
dispensable either to adopt powder or a wig, both of which
auxiliaries are now banished from society as a general part
of dress.

The fancy dresses were, on the whole, extremely successful,
especially that of Lieut. Malcolm, Mr. Hoskins, and several
other eastern dresses. The Highland garb was more gene-
rally worn by gentlemen, and, as is always noticed at this
ball, every care seemed to be exercised to render the costume
correct.

Among the numerous congregation we observed—Prince
Lieven, Prince Galatzin, Prince Troubetskoi, his Excellency
Count Kielmansegge, Baron de Lagos, Mohun Lal, the Duke
of Buccleuch, the Duke and Duchess of Montrose, the
Duchess of Somerset, the Duchess of Norfolk and Lady Mary
Howard, the Duke and Duchess of Roxburghe, the Duchess
of Sutherland and Lady Caroline Leveson Gower, the
Duchess de Coigny and Mdlle. de Coigny, the Marquis of
Douglas, the Marchioness of Breadalbane, the Marquis of
Handy, the Marchioness of Conyngham, the Countess
of Powis and Ladies Lucy and Charlotte Herbert,
the Countess of Rosebery and Ladies Louisa and Anne
Primrose, the Countess of Haddington, the Countess of
Kinnoul, the Countess of Morton and Lady Ellen
Douglas, the Countess of Camperdown and Lady
Elizabeth Duncan, Viscount and Viscountess Torrington,
Viscount Dupplin, Lord Henry Lennox and Lady Caroline
Lennox, Lord Cranstoun, Lord Francis and Lady Augusta
Gordon Hallyburton, Viscount Bury, Lord and Lady
Glenlyon, Lord William Graham, Lord and Lady Carew,
Honourable Misses Carew, Lady Lurgan and Honourable
Miss Bro.-inlow, Lord Alfred Paget, Lady William Paget,
Lord Dudley Stuart, Lord and Lady Napier and Hon. Miss
Napier, Dowager Lady Rendlesham and Hon. Misses Thel-
lusson, Lord Henry Loftus, Lady Emily Foley, Mr. A. and
Lady Elizabeth Drummond and Miss Drummond, Lady
Augusta Onslow, Lady Stopford and Misses Stopford, Sir H.
and Lady Hume Campbell, Sir Alexander Woodford and
Miss Woodford, Lady Montford, Lady Elizabeth Elliott,
Ladies Jane and Caroline Charteris, Dowager Lady Abinger,
Baroness Dimsdale and Miss Dimsdale, Honourable Captain
W. Gore, Sir Dugald Gilmour, Sir Archibald Macdonald,
Lady Massey, Lady Elizabeth Revnell and Miss Pache,
Honourable Mrs. 11. Howard, Honourable Mr. and Mrs.
Carnegie, Sir John and Lady Rose, Lady Anne Baird and
Miss Baird, Lady Willoughby D'Eresbv, Honourable D.
Astlev, Sir James and Lady M‘Gregor, Lady Bowyer Smith
and Misses Smith, Sir Richard and Lady Jodrell and Miss
Jodrell, Lady Douglas, Lady Abercrombie, Lady Stammers,
Lord Reidhaven, Jas. Matheson, Esq., M.P., Mrs. Matheson
and Miss Percival], Lady ;Knox, Sir Duncan and Lady
M'Dougal, Sir Charles Dalbiac, Hon. Fox Blank, M.P., Miss
Baillie,Hon. Mrs. Hope Johnstone, Hon. Mrs. Wyndham,
Rear-Admiral and Miss Sykes, Sir Peter and Lady Laurie,
Sir John Campbell, Sir De Lacy and Lady Evans, Lady Murray,
Lady Maria West and Miss West, Sir Claude Wade, Lady
Mackenzie, Sir John and Lady Hansler, Hon. S. Pierre-
pont, Hon. Captain James Murray, Hon. Mr. Browne, Hon.
A. and Hon. F. Chichester, Hon. George Stuart, Hon. C.
Butler, Sir John Brackenburv, Sir H. Dalrymple, General
Napier, Colonel Everest, 'Lieutenant-Colonel Malcolm,
Captain Gordon Cumming, Sir Edward Poore, Sir James
Ramsey, Sir R. Murray, Misses Abercrombie (2), Mrs. F.
Kelly, Mrs. Milner Gibson, Captain Archdall, M.P., Mr. Lock-
hart, M.P., and Miss Lockhart, Mr. Campbell, of Islay; Mr.
S. Lane Fox, M.P., Mr. and Mrs. W. H. Russell, Mr. Leslie,
Mr. Angus Mackenzie, Mr. A. D. Maclean, Mr. R. Cameron,
Mr. G. and Mrs. Forbes, General and Mrs. Kemp, Mr. and
Mrs. Auldjo and Miss Auldjo, Colonel Wood, M.P., Major
M. Sterling, Major-General Morison, Major-General Gallo-
way,GrGrant
t Mr.an aGicusßain,Miss
G r Mr.t 3151.1.8 oayndd, C.
Fraser, Pole, andand
1111Irr.rss..
Doyley and Misses Dcillze;111.1. and Mrs..M‘Leod, Captain
Colonel Bloomfield:ae, Captain Home Purves,
and Alrs. Western
Lieutenant-Colonel Luard, General Evans,
Lieutenant-Colonel Daly, Captain Forbes Matheson, Captain
MatlieseaCpatpatinainHO.nlsvlowts,oen,apctaainptßaien3alcils,Captain Pren-
dergast,ple, Captain
Glynne, Captain 11. B. Martin, Captain MraYtain
Kenyon, Captain Fraser, Captain De Bathe, Captain
H.
Edwards, R.N., Captain Lewis, Captain De 'Buatt,alkin
Western, Major Wilkinson, Captain Paley, Captain Charles
Forbes, &c.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.

(YESTERDAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP A.
SOUTH raLsTrraN LINE.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. Chubb, accountant to the South-Eastern Railway Company,
was then examined as to the affairs of the Company, and stated that
the receipts of the Company during the half-year ending Ist
January, 1845, were 139,0421. I ls. 2d.; the expenditure for the
same half-year being 69,2811/. Os. 2d., leaving a net profit of
69,7541. 11 s.

When cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant SHEA, witness stated
that the debts of the Company amounted to 1,000,0001., of which
48,0001. was to be paid on the sth July next. The money was to
be raised on a new issue of shares.

Being re-examined by Mr. MenaEwETnEtt, he stated that these
shares had been already issued at a nominal price of 501. each, but
actually at 33/. 6s. Bd. The witness was also examined on other
points connected with the affairs of the Company.

Mr. Armstrong, accountant, was examined as to the charges on
the present, and the intended charges of the proposed line.
Mr. Bidders, engineer to the South-Eastern, and also to
the Chatham and Milton line, was then called and examined—He
stated that he had examined both the lines of railway, the South-
Eastern and the North Kent, and he considered the former the
preferable line. He then proceeded to describe the South-Eastern
Hum, and to point out several points in which it was superior, in his
opinion, to the North Kent line. The South-Eastern line would have
a terminus at Blackheath, which could not be on the North Kent
line, as the tunnel there would render it impracticable. The two
lines entered 'Woolwich differently—the South-Eastern having a
terminus within 200 yards of the gates of the Arsenal, and another
near the Dock-yard. The line would interfere with some private pro-
perty at Woolwich, but the injury would not be equal to the advan-
tage to the trade of the town. It was contemplated to have a
double:line between Woolwich and Gravesend, one branch of which,
called the Stow branch, would diverge to the right, and the other
to the left. The North Kent line gave better accommodation to
the people of Erithlthan the South-Eastern, but superior accom-
modation was given by the.. South-Eastern to the people of the:more
populous village of Welling.
The Committee were occupied the whole of the latter part of
the day with the evidence of this witness, but no further point of
public interest was spoken to by him.
On the announcement that the Speaker was at prayers, the Com-
mittee adjourned till Friday.

GROUP FF.
EDINEURGH AND NORTHERN LINE.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. Sergeant Bellasts having concluded his address, the room
was ordered to be cleared for the consideration of the preamble.
After a deliberation of two hours and a half the parties were
called in at a quarter to five o'clock, when

The Noble CHAIRMAN said—The Committee have decided that
the preamble of the Bill is proved. They have also arrived at a
conclusion that the promoters must commence with a double line.
They will not leave it at the discretion of the Board of Trade
to order this, for they have come most strongly decided on that
course.

Mr. CRAWFORD—On behalf of the promoters, I beg to inform
your Lordship that we are quite willing to make the double line ;
indeed, we are glad of the decision on that point.
The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock to morrow.

GROUP GG.
GLASGOW JUNCTION RAILWAY.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

After some remarks from Mr. Sergeant A NDRIIWS,

Mr. Miller, C.E., was called, and stated that the error, if sueh
existed (he had not levelled the ground himself) was of avery trifling
character, and it would be of great advantage to the proposed line,
hecause it would enable him to improve the gradients in one case,
or by another mode to shorten the points of junction, preserving
the same rate of inclination.

The Committee decided that the objection was not fatal to the
progress of the Bill.
Witnesses were then called to prove the injury which would be
done to the harbour at the Broomielaw by:the obstruction of the
ground required for the approaches to the intended bridge over the
Clyde, and also from the inconvenience and danger which would
arise from the laying of the rails upon the level of the Broomielaw.
Messrs. Johnson and Russell, the harbour masters, spoke to
these points, and the Committee then adjourned at four o'clock till
Friday at eleven o'clock.

IMPORTATIONS OP LEATHER.—The remission of
the duties on leather has induced importations of this commodity
from the United States. The packet-ship Yorkshire, which or_
rived on Thursday last, brought 2,447 hides and 34 bundles of the
article, with a variety of Yankee notions, and amongst them, as
companions for the leather, we suppose, ten casks of shoe-pegs:--
Liverpool paper.

THE SUN, LONDON, TffrltSDAl EVENING, JrNE in, imas..

that clergyman there (pointing to Mr. Williams.)—(Great
laughter.)
Mr. Williams—lt is part of the glebe.
Sergeant ItitivoLaKc—They sell bad beer , there, I believe.
Witness—No; I believe very good.
Sergeant KINGLAKE—Then the passengers were not thirsty ?
A MEmcmt of the COMMITTEE—Why, this will be as good as an
advertisement for the house.
Mr. J. Less, a merchant and manufacturer residing at South.
port, gave evidence in favour of the projected line, as did Mr.
William Hill, a merchant residing at Manchester, who frequently
visited Southport.
Mr. Lineger, a farmer residing near Southport, gave evidence as
to the traffic which would be carried on the line.
Other evidence was given in support of the project, and the
Committee adjourned.

GROUP L.
POR.TSTVIOUTH ATMOSPHERIC LINE.

The Committee resumed this morning at twelve o'clock, Mr, E.
B. Denison in the chair, when
The CHAIRMAN announced that the Committee had decided that
counsel might cross-examine on any point involving expense.
Mr. Samuda was then again called, and replied to Mr. COCK.
BURN, that with reference to the error which had been assumed
in his papers of yesterday, he had ascertained that he had omitted
one-half of the haulage at the Epsoin station, and the consequence
was, that 171. 6s. per mile must be added to the working expenses,
making the working expenses 368/. 14s. Id., instead of
3511. Bs. Id. fur working per mile thirty trains a day, and for
twenty-four trains 318/. With respect to the leakage per mile,
the amount was 186 cubic feet per mile per minute, according to
Mr. Stephenson on the separation of the longitudinal open
main from the close main. But at Dorking there war a longitudi-
nal main nearly 500 feet long, that is in the working
main, and the total there was 556 feet in the two while Mr. Ste-
phenson'e are 471 cubic feet in the two, but subsequent •bser.
vation showed 360 cubic feet in the whole. The air which
leaks into the tube leaks in an atmospheric density, but the air
pumped out was at the density of the air in the main, so that for
every cubic foot of air leaking into the tube, two feet had to be
pumped out. But this introduction of atmospheric air into the
tube would affect the speed during the 18. inch tube for one mile,
assuming 28 inches barometer, from 186 feet per mile per minute,
the average barometer for taking the train being nine inches.
The line rose, during thirty miles from Epsom, ten feet per mile,
and during the remainder of the line it fell fourteen feet in a mile.
There was an average traction to exert, for an up and down train,
of 101Ibs. per ton. Taking a train of 50 tons, and multiplying
that by 10i, he had 525 tons to overcome, and taking the mercury
at 9 inches, he would have 9601b5. to overcome, incl udi ng 3601b5. for
atmospheric pressure in opposition, and 401bs. for contingencies, by
an 18-inch tube, with 8 inches of mercury, the travelling speed being
45 miles an hour. With these premises the effect on the velocity
would be to reduce it, at the end of three miles. to nearly nine
miles per hour below the speed at which the engine was drawing the
air from the tube, in consequence of leakage only. In the experi-
ment No. 6, in the report of the Select Committee on the atmospheric
principle, it was stated at the 50th post, at the distance of % of an inch
from the engine, there was a difference of one inch in the baro-
meter, the speed being forty miles an hour, and this would in- I
crease theoretically, but it would be very little indeed, so small
that he did not appreciate it, or take it into his calculation. He
had followed out that experiment in two instances, and had found
the difference very constant. Throughout this experiment there
has been a difference of one_and-a-half, whether the train was
mtving at thirty or forty miles an hour. Under all the circumstances,
at the pump end of the tube the air would move out of the tube
at the same velocity whether the piston were in motion or not.
The assumption of the opponents of the atmospheric principle was
founded on the experiment of driving a gas through a tube filled
with air by the pressure of water from behind. In that case the
gas had to contend with the air in the tube, which just as it forced
its way through the centre of the column of air, encountered a
resistance by the pressure of air upon the sides of the tubes, and they
conceived that as the speed was increased, the resistance in the
tube would oppose the progress of the piston, and thus to a great
extent neutralise the power, and, of course, reduce the speed.
Mr. Hawkesley, in his evidence before the Select Committee, had
assumed that to overcome a resistance of 15Ibs. on the inch,
with a speed of forty-seven miles an hour, it would be
necessary to obtain a plenum, and then to form a per-
fect vacuum to allow this plenum to act. But in the
atmospheric railway tube the air was to be exhausted, and though
it was impossible to form a perfect vacuum, yet the air might be
pumped out to such an extent as to take 9,999 feet out of 10,000,
and all the opposition the piston would have to encounter would
be one foot of air rarified to one ten.thousandth of its previous
density, which was nearly equal to nothing, so that the fallacy lay
in the supposition that nothing being in the tube
the piston would be impeded and the power consequently
neutralised by what was in the tube.
To the inquiries of Mr. ALEXANDER, Mr. Samuda replied that
all costs of leakage, depreciation, atmospheric resistance, and
every other similar contingency had been included in his estimates
of expenses. The cost of engines, at each station, lie assumed
to amount to 1501. a year, and the depreciation of one
pier cent. on the cost of the engines. As respects
the cost of locomotive engines, it appeared from the
evidence of Mr. Locke before the Select Committee of the
House of Commons, that during the year 1844 the engineers on the
the South-Western Railway had travelled a total mileage of
662,000 miles at a cost of 41,249/., the trains being on an average
of 38i tons. On the proposed atmospheric line, with thirty trains
a day, the mileage would be rather less, being 657,000 miles, and
the expense would be about 22,000/., each train carrying 50 tons.
The difference was aggravated by the circumstance that on the
atmospheric there were gradients as much as 1 in 80, while on the
South. Western line the gradients were remarkably easy.
To the inquiry of Mr. M. Maras, Mr. Samuda replied that there
would be no difficulty whatever in a locomotive line traversing an
atm,aepheric line; and to Mr. OsWALD, that the additional
cost for forming a double line, allowing for the ad-
vantagcs he possessed in the double engines, would be
about I S'44
DOW., and there would be about 18,000/. to 20,000/.
for increa.'ing
the engine power, making 420,000/. for a double
line against `/ 70,000/. for the cost of a single tube line. The
trains would lose down the plane of 1 in 80 at a speed of 40 miles an
hour, and at 33 osales an hour where the plane was lin 100. In
addition to this there was the advantage of being able to stop the
trains with much g 'venter facility than they could in a locomotive
line, as at Dorking. were the line was on a slight incline they could
bring a train progressing at a rate of 40 miles an hour to a state o.
rest within 250 to 270 Wards. The expense of keeping an at-
mospheric line was eery mu.'' less than a locomotive line. There
was a good instance of this in the Blackwail Railway, which re-
sembled an atmospheric line in
engines passing over it, and thi.
the circumstance of no locomotive
laid down five years, were in as
've the rails which had been
cood a state as when first
laid, and the expense of repairs was
Cetfectly inappreciable. In
the event of the atmospheric principle pr.lcing
inefficient, the line
could easily be made a locomotive line. TiIVY had, however, ex.
perienced no irregularity whatever during two' years in the appa-
ratus. There was no doubt whatever that the 'whole of the line
could be executed within two years.
Mr. Cubitt, the eminent engineer, had surveyed the country
last year for the proposed line. He had recom-
mended several branches, and among others one t'g Chi-
chester, and a trench to Guilford had been looked at, but
not surveyed. Other branches had also been surveyed, and amOrig
them one to Reigate. That and the Chichester branch had been'
included in the deposited plans. The line had been assimilated to
the old line of road. It ran through an undulating country, and
was well adapted for the atmospheric system. The engines were
not included in the estimates, but might be obtained from the
best makers for 5,009/., and the engine-houses would cost
1,0001. to 2,000/. each. He had calculated the line as a single
line, which was quite sufficient for the purpose; and if they had as
much business as they could do, the country would be very well
served, and the Company very well paid ; but the perfection of
atmospheric travelling, in his opinion, would be to have a
double line all the way, and start a train every five minutes from each
end. He fully confirmed the evidence of Mr. Joseph Cubitt respecting
the gradients, speed, and tonnage; and also that of Mr. Samuda,
on the working expenses. The line might be worked by loco-
motive engines, but more expensively, as there were many railways
now in work with much more severe gradients. One on the Bir-
mingham and Gloucester line was 1 in 37, which was in actual
work; and there would be no difficulty whatever in detaching
carriages from an atmospheric train, and attaching them to a
locomotive train. It had been originally intended that the pro-
posed line should form a connexion between Portsmouth and
Chatham, and that was one of its principal objects. There would
be no difficulty whatever in turning the single atmospheric line
into a double one without interrupting the traffic. Low fares
would also largely increase the traffic as was evident in the case of
the Croydon line, where the receipts, with the low fares, were
8,000/ against 14,0001. for the high,fares. The Croydon Company
were now laying down a third line of rails on the atmospheric prin-
ciple, there being about five miles completed at present. He had had
a negotiation with the Greenwich Railway Company respecting the
bringing the atmospheric principle to London.bridge, which came
to a successful termination, in consequence of their greater advan-
tage from the low fares, they getting more from a toll of a halfpenny
than the others did from one of fourpence. The Croydon and
Epsom line had also been purchased for the purpoae of laying down
the line on the atmospheric principle. The line had been urged
on with as much expedition as they possibly could, but circum-
stances—the novelty of the thing, and the number and variety of
his own engagements—had prevented it being formed so soon as he
had expected, but two.thirds of the capital had been paid up, and
the engines had been contracted for with Messrs. Mandalay, and
the rails and tube with the Colebrooke Dale Company. The latter
party had, however, been unable to complete their engagements,
and the winter had been very bad. No time, however, had been
lost that could possibly be avoided, and the land contracts for the
Epsom line were all in progress, and a great part of the land was
already purchased. They were about to construct the works on
the Croydon Railway double, and the tube on that line would be
15-inch, their gradients being better, the gradient of 1
in 100 bearing the same relative proportion to I in 8 in
the power necessary to work it as a 15-inch pipe
does to an 18-inch pipe. He was aware that Mr,
Brunel had proposed to send the mail train sixty miles an
hour by a 15-inch pipe, and he believed that he would do it, if the
gradients were not severe. The power of a 15. inch pipe to an
18 inch was as 225 to 324, beingithe square of the diameter. Mr.
Cubitt exhibited a diagram of a crossing-place with two station.
platforms, to show how the trains were to cross each other. It
showed two parallel lines of railway with two diagonal communi-
cations, one at one end from the tipper to the lower rail, and an-
other at the other end from the lower to the upper rail. Before the
rail reached the diagonal crossing at either end, there was a mark to
show that the tube stopped there, as it was intended for the im-
pelling power to cease at that point, and for the trains to pass up to
the station levels by the momentum, and then to be carried for-
ward to the other tube, by a series of eccentric wheels. There was
a particular means of directing the trains precisely to the other tube
which they had to use. The crossings were to be effected by
moveable rails of about seventy tons at once. The stations were
placed on different sides of the railway, and were so placed that
the beginning of one level should be just opposite the termination
of the other. The whole apparatus and moving power would cost
about 3,0001., and the trains were to be so timed as to arrive at
periods when they would not interfere with each other.
To the cross.examination of Mr. Selleeeant GUNNING (by whom
most of the inquiries which elicited the evidence just given had been
put), Mr. Cubitt replied that he founded his calculations of the re_
sistance to a carriage moving at a velocity of 40 miles an hour up
a plane of 1 in 80, on the data of allowing 71bs. a ton
for friction, the gravity for what was worth, the rule
being a relation between the weight of the train and
the steepness of the ascent. The resistance of the
atmosphere he calculated at half a pound per square foot for every
twelve miles an hour,and then multiplying the area of the train by
the squares of the velocity. He allowed nothing for the friction
of the air within the tube, but, of course, the friction would be ac-
cording to the tenuity of the air. A greater power would, in his
opinion, be required to move a locomotive train over a summit than
to move an atmospheric train, because the former had the engine and
its attendants, In addition to this, there was a principle deve-
loped in the atmospheric plan which occasioned the pumps to
work with greater force as the train rose on the
plane, so as to carry a train over a summit
which a locomotive engine could not surmount even without a
train at all. A plane of 1 in 3 woula stop a locomotive. An
18-inch tube, with a 10-inch vacuum, would carry a piston-car-
riage weighing about six tons over such a plane, and the force to be
.41i,icrted would be about one.third more than the weight.
of a proposal by the Atmospheric Company to the South-Western
To the inquiry of Mr. M. Maras, as to whether he had ever heard
Company to delay their project until they were in a position to
show some experiments.
The Committee then adjourned.

Mr. Locke, the engineer of the line, was examined in favour of
the projxt. His evidence tended to show that there were no en.
gineering difficulties to be encountered in the construction of this
line of railway. It was intended that this branch should run
into the South-Western line. The entire expense of it would
amount to 200,000/. _ _ _

Mr. Chapman was examined as to the traffic. It appeared from
his evidence that it would he doubled in consequence of the forma-
tion of the railway. The amount of the total present traffic was
37,3721. 12s. ; when doubled by the railway it would amount to
74,7451. 4s.
Mr. Darnell, a bookseller at Richmond for the last fifty years,
was examined as to the insufficiency of the present means of con-
veyance.

Mr. Hudson, who stated that he was a Richmond omnibus-
driver, was examined to show that the inhabitants of Richmond
were favourable to the intended line, and that the number of pas.
sengers every day from Richmond to London was such as to en-
title them to it.

After hearing further evidence to the same effect the Committee
adjourned at four o'clock.

GROUP MM.
WEST LONDON IZAILWAY.

Mr. M. CAIMBERS then opened his case by stating that the injury
that would be dune by the proposed line to the property of his
noble client would be great. It would destroy the plans for build-
ing, independent of which the Kensington Canal was quite sutli.
cient for all the purposes of traffic which were contemplated
by the proposed railway, and the interests of those who resided on
the banks of the canal would be greatly injured. The Learned
Counsel then called the fallowing witnesses in support of the
petition :
Mr. Martin Joseph Studley, surveyor, produced a plan of the
estate, and stated that the proposed line would greatly
injure the estate. It would pull down eighteen' thousand buildings,
independent of which it would destroy the plans for the erec-
tion of contemplated buildings, and which were let on lease
to be built upon. The depreciaticn of Lord Kensington's
property would be great. There are five wharfs on the banks of
the basin which would be injured. Witness could not say what
money would compensate his Lordship for the injury done to his
property. . . .

. .
Cross-examined—The property which would be injured was now
in cabbage gardens—(Laughter)—and all the injury which wit-
ness described was the invention of his own conception.—
(Laughter.) The houses which would be pulled down were
chiefly occupied by working people. There were some first-
class houses. He was of opinion that the construction of
the proposed railway would prevent building. One thousand yards
of Lord Kensington's property would he cut up.

The CHAIRMAN observed that the question of value would be
decided by a jury, and it was not for the Committee to decide that
point.
Mr. Thompson, Secretary to the West London Railway in 1836,
stated that a clause was then introduced for the purchase of the
Kensington Canal, which at high water was navigable ; at low
water it was not so. The traffic on the canal was considerably
increased.

This witness was cross-examined at considerable length, but
nothing particular was elicited, except that the sum claimed by
Lord Kensington was upwards of 15,0001.
Mr. Samuel Beasley confirmed the statement of the previous
witnesses as to the injury done to the property of Lord Kensington.
Mr. William Collins gave a further confirmation of the injury
done to Lord Kensington's property.

Mr. Richard Stawhaim stated the quantum of traffic on the canal.
Mr. CHAMBERS here closed his case on the part of Lord Ken-
sington.

Mr. B. ANDRIZWEI then opened the case on the part of Mr.
Prosser, the inventor of the atmospheric railway, and his Company.
There was a strong animus exhibited in the Learned Counsel's
statement ; until the law of libel is more perfectly defined we ab-
stain from giving his strong expressions in the zeal of his advocacy.
The Learned Counsel had not concluded his statement when the
Speaker was announced to be at prayers,

GROUP LL.
THE LONDON AND SOUTH-WESTERN
RAILWAY EXTENSION•

GROUP P.
THE SOUTH WALES RAILWAY.

On the re-assembling of the Committee this morning the exami-
nation of l►fr. Fisher was about to be resumed, when
The Cultflours observed that the Committee had been engaged
in considering the letter from the Admiralty respecting the manner
in which it was proposed to carry the railway over the Severn,
and they wished to know when it would he convenient for the
matter to be discussed.

Sir I'. PHILLIPS replied that the subject which had been alluded
to by the Committee could be most legitimately discussed when
the engineering evidence should be gone into. He would take an
opportunity of consulting with his Learned Friend Mr. Aus-
tin in the course of the day, if the Committee should
approve of the passing of the preamble. The whole
of the evidence that would be adduced on the matter
would be printed, and if the Admiralty should still remain unsatis-
fied as to the practicability of crossing the Severn in the proposed
manner, the promoters of the Bill were prepared to insert a
dame forbidding them from constructing the bridge until the full
acquiescence of the Admiralty should be obtained.
The examination of Mr. Fisher was then continued. He was
examined in detail as to the amount of traffic to be expected on
the proposed line. It appeared that the number of miles that would
be travelled by the passengers in the aggregate would amount to
25,900,697 miles. He had divided the passengers into three classes
consisting of the first class, who would travel 6,147,037 miles at
3d. ; second class, 14,222,149 miles at 2d.; and third class,
5,531,511 miles at Id., making a total of 25,900,697 miles
travelled by passengers. The revenue that would be derived from
this source would amount—for first-class passengers, to 76,8371.
19s. 3d. ; second-class passengers, to 118,5171 1 Ss. 2d. ; third.
class passengers, to 23,0471. 19s. 3d., making a total of 218,403/.
16s. Sd. as the annual revenue. He had prepared a state-
ment of the goods, merchandise, and minerals that were likely
to be transmitted by the railway, which he had classified in the
following manner :-183,000 tons, conveyed for any distance not
exceeding six miles, at Is. per ton for the whole distance;
166,568 tons, from six to ten miles, at Is. 4d. per ton ; 216,481
tons, from ten to twenty miles, at 3s. per ton ; 363,011 tons, from
twenty to thirty miles, at 4s. 6d. per ton ; 89,645 tons, from thirty
to forty miles, at ss. 6d. per ton ; 150,912 tons, from forty to fifty
miles, at Gs. per ton; and 93,952 tons, travelling various dis-
tances exceeding sixty miles, had been estimated at I 4d. per ton
per mile.
The entire revenue to be derived from the

sources of goods, merchandise, andminerals,
would amount to £184,159 0 0
From carriages, horses, and dogs, estimated at
5 per cent. on the passengers' traffic 10,920 3 4
From the carriage of the mails 15,000 0 0
From passengers... 218,403 16 8

Making a gross total revenue of £428,483 0 0
From which 40 per cent. being deducted for
working expenses 171,393 0 0
A net revenue of '257,0901. per annum would result, being a
dividend of about 9 per cent, on the gross capital of 2,800,0001.
On cross-examination, Mr. Davis said he considered the bridge
across the Severn would present an obstruction to the passage of
masted vessels; but the difficulty would be removed if the arch
were constructed of sufficient height. If the bridge were made to
cross the Aust Ferry, it would be a great accommodation for the
whole of the west of England, but not, in his opinion, for London.

4r, Taylor, of Newlands, was then called and examined by
sir PHILLIPS as to the navigation of the river Severn. He
deposea' that the Severn traders had agreed to accept compensation
for any .injury that might result to their trade from the
passage of the railway over the bridge that was
proposed to Le erected over the Severn. Vessels have
gone down as far as Bridgewater for a cargo of hay owing
to the continued drot.,ght of summer. If any quantity of hay were
now intended to be con•Veyed from Bridgewater to Gloucester, it
would be most convenim dly transmitted by railway. The tide on
the Seven, will sometime s rise as high as twenty-two or twenty.
three feet above low wat.lr mark, when there was a spring tide.
The trows that navigate the river wire masted vessels, and
could only pass and repass along the Severn at certain
states of the tide. Brimspill was S pace where ..here existed very
good anchorage. On the Severn a very rapid tide ca. led the bore,
occasioned at, times great danger to the shipping. The Berkeley
canal ran into the Severn, and the principal part of the traffic .f":"
Gloucester was conveyed along it. Vessels were sometimes de.
tained a week above Brimspill waiting for a sufficient tide to
carry them up. Compeniation had been offered to the witness on
account of the removal of his wharf.

On cross-examination, the witness said, that if the projected
railway were made, Nuneham would not be so convenient a port as
at present.

Mr. Twine, shipper at Bullopill, was next examined by Mr.
TALBOT—He had a general acquaintance with all shipping going up
and down the river. There were a few small sloops that found
their way up the river. A great many troves and barges also went
up, and they could lower their masts. The fruit vessels were
unable to have their masts lowered. Vesssels were frequenty de-
tained below Bullopill for want of sufficient tide. He knew of no
better part on the line than Brimspill, and its superiority was owing
to the great depth of water at that place.

On cross-examination, the witness stated that the bridge at Hoch.
crib would be an impediment to ♦essels going up the Severn.
Mr. Jaynes Carr, auctioneer, Nuneham, said there were some
difficulties in the bend of the river at the Noose, and below the
Ship Canal. He considered that the fixed bridge would be of
very little inconvenience to the canal traffic.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
After having heard the entire of the evidence against the Bill
the Committee postponed the consultation of the clauses.
RICHMOND RAILWAY.
The consideration of this railway Bill was next entered into by
the Committee.

Mr. Plowden, a pilot of the river Severn, stated he was tho-
roughly acquainted with the river, and no large vessels went up be-
yond Hockcrib. The proposed canal of the railway company
would be more convenient for the passage of vessels than the
Hockley Canal, as time and tide would be saved by avoiding the
necessity of passing the bend in the river. He considered it
would be a very great convenience to the shipping in the river, if
Brimspill were made a port instead of Bullopill.
On cross.examination, he said he did not consider there would be
a great accumulation of sand in the canal.

Mr. Shaw, ship-builder at Aure, said the effect of the canal with
respect to the navigation would be a great benefit. Vessels going
up to Gloucester by the canal would invariably save a tide, and
sometimes two or three days. It was objectionable that a vessel
going round the Horse-shoe would have to encounter several winds,
which sometimes forced the vessels on shore. Very few vessels
with fixed masts went round the Horse.shoe. He thought Brims.
pill would constitute a better port than Bullopill, as the Noose
would be avoided.

Mr. Margaret, pilot of the Severn, corroborated the evidence of
the previous witnesses.

Mr. Pool, merchant, of Bristol, said that he sent considerable
quantities of stone from Bristol to Gloucester by the Berkeley
Canal, and found it the cheapest mode of transmission. He gene-
rally confirmed the previous testimony.
The Committee adjourned till twelve to-morrow.