The Sun.
London, England, 1828-03-29 00:00:00

CORN LAWS.

Mr. Secretary PEEL rose for the purpose of post-
poning to Monday next a motion which stood upon
the paper, relative to a resolution upan the Corn
Laws. A short time since he received a communication
from his Right Honourable Friend, the President of
the Board of Trade, stating that he was unwell, but that
he did not consider himself so unwell as to be unable to
bring forward the motion to-day, if he (Mr. Peel) thought
there would be any inconvenience to the House to have it
postponed to Monday. The Bight Hon. Gentleman's an-
swer was, that he thought the House would feel no difficulty
under the circumstances in consenting to a postponement
till Monday. He was confident that his Right Hon. Friend
would be able to move the resolutions on Monday, but as,
after the delay which had taken place, a further postpone-
ment must be inconvenient, he or some other Member of the
Government would, in the event of his Right Hon. Friend
not being able to attend on Monday, bring forward the
subject on that day.

Sir E. KNATCHBULL was very anxious that, upon a
subject of such importance, the Right Hon. Gentleman
would state distinctly what course the Government intended
to take. Would they confetti themselves with placing
their resolutions on the table of the House, having them
printed, and then, on a future day, when time for consider-
ing the proposition had been allowed, to come to a decision
upon it ? Surely the more satisfactory course would be to
have the resolutions first, and the discussion after a short
intervening time.
Mr. PEEL said, his Right Hon. Friend would on
Monday next pursue that course which was consistent
with the usual practice in such cases, namely
propose in the first instance to the consideration
of the House those resolutions which his Majesty's Go-
vernment had agreed upon, and if it should be the sense
of the House, that owing to the absence of Members or
any other cause, it would be inconvenient to come
to a positive vote upon these resolutions, there would
be no wish on the part of his Right Hon. Friend
to pledge the House to any specific course, or to ask
them to come to any conclusion inconsistent with the usual
mode of proceeding.

Mr. WHITMORE apprehended that great inconve-
nience would arise from submitting the resolutions to the
Committee, inasmuch as the House in Committee must,
by their vote upon the resolutions, pledge themselves to
some specific course. As he intended in the present year
to pursue that course, which he had adopted last year,
and to propose resolutions which would probably be dif-
ferent from those of the Right Hon. Gentleman, he doubted
much whether a Committee was that form of the Ilouse in
which such resokitions ought to be submitted.
Mr. BARING said there could be no doubt that it would
be most inexpedient for the House at once to pledge itself
upon so complicated a plan ; but it was not to be sup-
posed that any gentleman bound hanself as to his future
conduct by voting on Monday next for the resolu-
tions, if he should be called on for a vote. That vote
would be a mere form of getting the business into
shape. As far as his experience went, the coarse pnrsued
was, on this question, to submit resolutions to the Com-
mittee, and have counter-resolutions submitted by other
Hon. Members which, although perhaps irregularly sub-
mitted, were still suffered by the Ifouse to be printed, and
then the question was adjourned till after the holidays. If
any Hon. Gentleman would look into the Journals of
that House, he would find that not only Government
resolutions but counter-resolutions were suffered to be
printed, and therefore there could be no difficulty in find-
ing a precedent for printing counter-resolutions, if any
Hon. Gentleman should be disposed to submit them.
Mr. HUME said that he intended, on Monday next, to
submit a resolution for having a permanent fixed duty upon

Corn, if by the forms of the House he was not prevented
from doing so in a Committee.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said he understood it to be the
general wish of the House and the country, that before
Easter some distinct explanations of the views of
the Government, upon the Corn Question should
be given—(Hear, hear, hear.)—He was perfectly prepared
to comply with that wish, and at the same time avoid
committing the House prematurely in ally difference of
opinion on the subject. Pie hoped there would be
no difference of opinion ❑pon Monday ; but if any
Gentleman had counter-resolutions to propose, the usual
courtesy of the House would permit the resolu-
tions on both sides to be printed. Although some
thought it would be inconvenient to bring forward the '
resolutions in the proposed form, his opinion was that there
would be an equal inconvenience in leaving the country
until after the recess, in ignorance of the opinion of Govern-
ment on the question.
Lord ALTHOLIP did not think it would be fair to
call upon the House on Monday for a vote upon those re-
solutions, but he thought that the whole question ought to
be left open to the consideration of the public until after
Easter.
Mr. PEEL said, the resolutions were to be so framed, as
to have a Bill founded upon them ; still, if inconvenient to
the House, there would be no necessity of calling for any
determinate vote.
Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY thought there ought to be
a more distinct understanding than had been yet given, that
the House would not be pledged a single stage in the
bringing in of a new Bill, without ample time for considera-
tion. It was very desirable to know, then, the exact course
which the Hight Honourable Gentleman meant to pursue
on Monday.
Mr. PEEL said all he wanted was, by some proceeding to
put the country into possession of the views of Government
upon the subject. If that object could be obtained either
by a form of vote, or the chairman reporting, it was per-
fectly immaterial to him.
The Order of the Day was the❑ postponed to Monday.
REGISTRY OFFICE OF SCOTLAND.

Sir J. NEWPORT moved the inquiry he had made on
a former evening, respecting the office of Registrar in Scot-
land. He thought if it was necessary to retain the office ;
the salary might be considerably reduced, as the business
was now done by deputy.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said he was waiting for informa-
tion before he made any appointment to the office. He
understood the manual labour of the office required a
deputy, but that there was a heavy pecuniary responsi-
bility attached to it.
IRISH JURY BILL.

On the motion of Mr. LAMB the House resolved
itself into a Committee on the Irish Juries Bill.
After a few observations from Mr. S. RICE, the Bill
went through the Committee; after which the House
resumed, and the report was ordered to be taken into
further consideration on the 16th April next.
Mr. LAMB obtained leave to bring in a Bill for Con-
solidating and Amending the laws relating to malicious
injury to property in Ireland.
TEST AND CORPORATION ACTS.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved the Order of the Day
fur the further consideration of the Report on the repeal
of the Test and Corporation Acts.
The Bill was ordered to be engrossed, and read a third
time on Monday next.
PENRYN DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL.

Lord J. RUSSELL moved the order of the day for
the further consideration of the report upon the Penryn
Disfranchisement Bill.
Mr. STEWART rose to propose the introduction of a
clause into the Bill. It had been repeatedly declared in
the discussions upon this Bill, that Penryn was to he dis-
franchised on account of the proofs laid before the House of
the bribery and corruption so frequently practised there.
Now, in transferring the franchise of that borough to Man-
chester, the House, to be consistent, should endeavour to
guard against the prevalence of similar bribery and corrup-
tion there. It was with that view that he (Mr. Stewart)
now rose to propose the introduction of a clause, rendering
it imperative upon the members elected for Manchester to
subscribe a declaration, before they took their seats in that
House, to the effect that they had not procured their re-
turn by bribery or corruption, or by any other undue
means. The Honourable Member concluded by moving,
that after the words in the Bill "to vote at any elec-
tion," the following clause should be introduced—" and
be it further enacted, that the burgesses who shall be re-
turned to serve in Parliament for the said borough, shall
each be called upon, and required by the House of Com-
mons, before taking their seats, to make and subscribe the
following declaration:—" I (A. B.) do solemnly declare,
that I never gave, procured to be given, nor intended to
give, through myself, or others, directly or indirectly, any I
fee or reward to any of the electors of Manchester, to in.•
fluence their votes at said election, and that it was not
through any pecuniary consideration or promise that I was
returned to serve in Parliament for said borough ; and I
declare, to the beet of my knowledge, that I do not believe
my return was procured or promoted at said election, by
the interference, directly or indirectly, on the part of any
Peer of Parliament, or by that of any person acting upon
his behalf."
Mr. D. W. HARVEY seconded the motion.
Sir J. NEWPORT could have no possible objection to
the proposer! clause, if made to apply generally to all elec-
tions.—(llear.)—Alany years ago, on the introduction of
a Bill by the present Member for Cumberland, lie (Sir J.
Newport) proposed a clause similar in import to the pre-
sent; but then he proposed it as a general measure, and as
applicable to every Member of that House. He had a
decided objection, however, to this clause, which would go
to place the representation of Manchester upon a different
footing from all others.—(Hear.).---It would be casting an
imputation on the electors of Manchester, as if they were
snore corrupt than any other electors in the United
Kingdom, and would he subjecting their representatives to
an ordeal which no other Member had to undergo. He
was sure the House of Commons would not sanction such a
partial measure.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY should he as anxious as the
Hon. Baronet to see a clause of this kind applied to all
Members, whether returned firr counties, cities, or bo-
roughs, open or close ; but that was no reason why he should
oppose the present clause because it was a partial measure.
If a general measure of the kind were proposed, there
would be an abundance of Members, at least on the other
side of the House, to oppose it, and it would be characte-
rized 'there as too general and sweeping. Partial reform
was now the fashion of the day. When the advocates of
reform could not. remove the evils of the general system,
they brought forward some instance of gross and manifest
corruption, and the Mouse then dealt with the place as they
were now dealing with Penryn, and, as lie supposed, they
would hereafter deal with East Retford. In this way a
partial benefit was procured, and the principle of reform
was so far promoted and established. It was for these rea-
sons that he supported the motion.
Mr. WARBURTON objected to the proposed clause,
but not if accompanied by a clause introducing the secret
mode of voting by ballot, which would enable the poor to
vote, uninfluenced by the power or displeasure of the rich.
Mr. PEEL would, most decidedly oppose the Bill if it
contained any such clause as that recommended by the
Hon. Member for Bridport. What ! did he mean that the
electors should vote in secret ? Nothing could be more un•
fair towards the electors of this country. 'Why should not
electors be at liberty on the hustings to state their reasons
in giving their votes, and to canvass the conduct of the
several candidates proposed for their choice? If such a
principle were admitted into tkis Bill, it should be then ad-
mitted generally. With respect to the clause before the
House, he objected to it upon that ground particularly.
The other night several special clauses, such as that re-
garding qualification, and which locally applied to Man-
chester, were agreed to. But if a general principle of this
kind were to encumber the Bill, it might affect the final
success of the measure. It would not be just that the re-
presentatives of Manchester should be called upon to make
such a declaration, while it was not proposed to any other
Member in that House.

Mr. HUME believed that the Right Hon. Gentleman
scarcely intended to convey the meaning which his words
certainly bore. He objected to the principle of voting by
ballot, and yet it was the course which this House adapted
As the best and fairest, in the appointment of their Secret
Committees. The lion. Gentleman would have an op-
portunity of discussing this subject on Monday, when he
(Mr. Hume) intended to bring forward a motion' respect-
ing this, as the Hon. Gentleman seemed to think, very
objectionable mode of proceeding. As to the regulation
now under the consideration of the House, he would sug-
gest to the Hon. Member opposite, not to press for a divi-
sion, seeing that the feeling of the House was against the
proposition, but to await the discussion of the general
principle which he (Mr. Hume) would bring before the
House on Monday, in the Committee upon the Bill intro •
duced by the Hon. Member for Worcester, for regulating
the polls in cities and boroughs.
Mr. PEEL said, the Hon. Gentleman opposite had
stated that the Committees of that House were chosen by
ballot ; the Election Committees were certainly so chosen,
but generally the Committees of the House were not se-
lected in that manner.
Mr. HUME instanced the Secret Committees.
Mr. PEEL admitted that such was the fact ; but secret
committees had not been appointed by the House for many

years past. The Right lion. Gentleman, in conclusion,
suggested to Lord J. Russell the propriety of altering the
clause in the Bill, which enabled the returning officer to
stand as candidate at the election.
Lord J. RUSSELL had introduced that clause into the
Bill, as the boroughreeve at Manchester, who would be the
returning officer was appointed by the Lord of the Manor,
in order that no person who, it might be well known for
some time previous to the election, intended to offer him-
self as a candidate, should be prevented from doing so by
being appointed by the Lord of the Manor to the office of
boroughreeve. He (Lord J. Russell) objected to the
clause proposed by the Hon. Atoning- opposite, because it
did not apply to other cities and boroughs. He did not see
why the Members for Alanchester should he called upon to
make a declaration which no other Member would be re-
quired to subscribe.

Mr. C. W. WYNN was against making an exception to
the general rule in this instance.
Sir J. SCARLE'g'g was of opinion, that it was not
expedient to make this a case different from all others.
With regard to the declaration which it was proposed
to require from the members for Blanchester, he would
only say, that in no part of England could there be less
ground for the suspicion of bribery and corruption than
in Manchester The population there was vast, their
independence great, and it was not therefore possible that
the majority of the electors ever could be influenced by
bribery or corruption.—(Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Sir G. Puruars, Sir J. SCA K-
LETT, and Mr. STEWART,

Strangers were ordered to withdraw ; the House then
divided, when there appeared—

For the amendment 1
Against it. l2O

Majority ll9
While we were excluded, we understood that the other
amendments were read and agreed to, and the report was
ordered to be taken into further consideration some day
next week.
On the motion of Mr. Lion, the cities and towns
(Ireland) Cleansing and Lighting Bill was read a first tune,
and ordered to be read a second time on Monday next.
THE WATER COMMISSION

Mr. lIOBHOUSE seeing the Right Hon. Gentleman,
the Secretary for the Home Department, in his place,
wished to obtain some information from him respecting a
report presented by the Commissioners appointed to inquire
into the supply of water to the western parts of the me-
tropolis. That report was any thing but satisfactory, and
he would request the Right Hon. Gentleman's attention to
one or two passages in it. It appeared from the report,
that it was the impression of the Commissioners, that their
inquiry was to extend, not only to the present state of the
supply of water to that part of the metropolis, but that
they were also bound to suggest remedies for correcting the
defects in that supply, and that, if no alteration could ren-
der the present mode of supply salubrious, it was in their
power to suggest some other. Under this impression they
entered upon an examination, and prepared a report, in
which they state that they have collected a large mass of
evidence on the subject. It was highly material that that
evidence should be laid before the House. After stating that
they had been " occupied for the last four months in collect.
ing a large mass of evidence relating to a much more extended
inquiry than was compri,ed in the questions to which the
Right Hon. Gent. (Mr. Peel) had limited their commis-
sion," the Commissioners proceeded to may—" This evi-
dence, we hoped, would have prepared the way for our re-
commendation of a practicable and efficacious plan of sup-
plying the whole of the metropolis with pure and whole-
some water—an object which we cannot but esteem as of
considerable importance, and which, as it appears kern the
several petitions to Parliament giving occasion to the
present commission, has been so loudly and so earnestly
called for by the public." That appeared to him (Mr.
Holshouse) to be the real and proper object of the commis-
sion. The Right Hon. Secretary objected to any expenses
to be incurred in the taking of levels and making of surveys.
Why was an eminent engineer appointed in the commis-
sion, if no surveys were to be made, and if the inquiry
were to he confined to a mere analysis of the water ? It
appeared to Mtn (Mr. Hubhouse) that the object of the
commission was to suggest the best mode of affording a
supply of salubrious water to the western part of the
metropolis, and to the Surrey side of the river. That,
it seems, was also the opinion of the Commissioners
themselves. But now the Right Hon. Secretary of the
Home Department limits their inquiry to a mere analysis
of the water, and in reply they state to hint that the ana-
lysis will nut be completed for six weeks more. Now he
(Mr. Hohhouse) would suggest to the Right Hon. Gentle-
man whether it would not be better to have the report which
the Commissioners stated they had prepared, and the evi-
dence which they had taken, laid on the table of the House
at present, instead of waiting for the completion of the
analysis of the water. If they were to legislate at all upon
this subject during this session, the production of these
documents should not be delayed. He would again ask if
the inquiry were merely to be limited to an analysis of the
water, why was Mr. Telford, the able engineer, nominated
on the commission, and why, in addition to Mr. Braude,
the celebrated chymist, was Dr. Roget, a distinguished
physician, also appointed ? He trusted the Right Hon.
Gentleman would order the evidence to be laid before the
House. _

` Mr. PEEL when he returned to the office which he
' now filled, found that a Commission had been appointed
under the former Secretary of State, and invested with
powers to make full inquiry into the state of the supply of
' water to the metropolis, and that the Commissioners were
empowered in this inquiry to examine persons upon oath,
and to compel the examination of witnesses before them.
' It appeared to hint (Mr. Peel) that this was giving to the
Commissioners very ample powers indeed. The Commis-
sioners had applied to him
o(nAtl hre.
ePxepeel)nsetowkhnicohw
would n-hethbeer
' they were empowered to take levels and make surveys.
incurred by l)Cestll)Chobserl'ed,upon
proceedings, and he hesitated therefore to
adopt the suggestion.—( Hear, hear. )--On communicating
with the late Secretary of State, he understood that such
objects were not embraced in the Commission, and
.his
(31r. Peel's) present impression was, that the Commis-
sioners had not any thing to do after they had been ap-
pointed, but to make an analysis of the water now supplied to
London by the several Water Companies. The Commis-
sioners were appointed upon the 25th of June, 1827, and
on the 29th of February, 1828, their inquiry had pro-
ceeded so far that no analysis of the water had been
made, and no analysis will be completed until the lapse
of six weeks from that period. He thought the Com-
missioners should confine themselves to an analysis of
the water, in order to ascertain if it could be obtained
in a salubrious state from those parts of the Thames whence
it was at present supplied ; and if not, that they should
metropolisd
r derived point out in their report those parts of the Thames. where
a supply of pure salubrious water could he obtained. If
that fact were ascertained and made public at once, com-
panies
those‘%
ply should be afforded to the public by companies than by
-oupldarbtse
ofsta tritieedritroersuwptlT.nwceattetrcetouldthbee
the Government. It would be far better to leave the
matter to public enterprise and speculation than to the in-
terference of Government.—(Hear.)—He (Mr. Peel) had
certainly objected to the taking of levels and making of
surveys, on the ground of the expence ; and as soon as the
reportofthe Commissioners was completed, he had no doubt
but all those objects would he accomplished. He had not
the slightest objection to the production of the evidence
called for by the Hon. Member opposite;
Mr. S. RICE said, a person had been appointed by the
commission as secretary, who was not calculated to dis-
charge the duties of that office, as he was not acquainted
with the science of engineering. In consequence, in No-
vember, application was made for the appointment of
anotherindividual to act in that department. The sub-
ject was at that time laid before his Noble Friend (Lord
Lansdowne),. then at the head of the Home-office. His
Noble Friend at once expressed a doubt, whether any ex-
tensive plan of engineering, or whether the erection of
public works, necessarily came under the direction of the
Commissioners ; and he also declared, that he did not think
the creation of any new berth was necessary, but lie
added, that if the Commissioners thought it necessary, they
should give in an estimate of the probable amount of ex-
pence, which estimate should be laid before the Treasury,
and a proper authority might then be given. The House
would, he was sure, see the inexpediency of giving a num-
ber of gentlemen, however able, a roving commission to
inquire into the state of public works. No such egti*
mates had been given in while he (Mr. S. Rice) syn''
the Home-office ; and he believed that none had
been sent
in up to the present time. If, therefore, any delay had
taken place, it was rather to be attributed to the LA)

sioners themselves than to any other persons•
Mr. PEEL was willing that the evidence already taken
bhould be produced, provided that it did not tend to pre-
judice the question. He should, however, see the Com-
missioners to-morrow, and hear what they had to say on
the subject.

LEAD MINES.
Lord W. POWLETT presented a petition from the
proprietors of lead mines in the county rof
Durham. The
petitioners complained that the population in that part of
the country, who chiefly subsisted by working those
mines, were plunged in the deepest distress, in conse-
quence of a clause in a recent Act of Parliament, by
which the duty on the importation of foreign lead ore