The Sun.
London, England, 1844-06-21 00:00:00

and at ten minutes to nine returned into Court, finding for
the defendant on the first plea, and for the plaintiff on the
second and third pleas.

her little family of four children, fatherless :—Respect-
fully states that applicant, by the death of her husband,
after a long and painful illness, is now bringing up her
little ones in the fear and love of the Lord, and in indus-
trious habits. By adversity she has been reduced from
a sphere of comfort to destitution, and wishes to establish
herself in some little business. She respectfully submits
the inclosed documents, which she presumes will be fully
satisfactory."
The reporter was informed that these audacious
and artful people approached Majesty itself, and not
unsuccessfully. Their meek and despondent look, and
their air of decent poverty was well calculated to deceive
the most cautious.
The prisoners declined making any defence. The
two youngest of their five children are twins, and the
prisoners each held one in their arms ; and though the
cries of the little ones often interrupted the proceedings,
they refused to part with them for a moment.
Mr. GREENWOOD said he had never heard nor ever
read of such impostors. He sentenced them to three
months' imprisonment each, and sent the eldest children
to the workhouse. The babes were removed with their
mother to the prison.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE,
(YESTERDAY.)
MANSION-HOUSE.

Mr. Howitt, one of the parishioners of St. Stephen's,
Walbrook, waited upon the Lord Mayor, for the pur-
pose of requesting his Lordship's interference with the
authorities of that church, to cause the removal of some
boarding which had been put up after the late accident
to the belfry, and from which he apprehended great
danger as he sat in his office. Already a serious risk
had been encountered by the fall of the woodwork a few
days ago. If upon that occasion a shower of rain had
not dispersed the persons who were collected about the
book-shop next to the church, loss of life would, no
doubt, have taken place. Another accident might prove
dreadful in its consequences.
The LORD MAYOR—Why do you not go at once to
the churchwardens, and appeal to them? It is quite im-
possible that such officers should for a moment hesitate
about making whatever repairs may be considered
necessary.
Mr. Howitt replied that it was the unfortunate con-
dition of the parish of St. Stephen's, Wallbrook, to be
supplied with two sets of churchwardens, neither of
which would, under the extraordinary circumstances in
which the parochial matters were involved, attempt to
act for the benefit of the parishioners.
The LORD MAYOR—What! when the lives of people
are endangered by the delay?
Mr. Howitt declared that none of the churchwardens
would act until the cause in the Court of Queen's Bench,
which was expected to come on next week, should be
decided. That case would show which set of church-
wardens could
,carefully act in the church. The cost of
the security against further danger would be insigni-
ficant, and if he had the power of admission he would
not hesitate to set a person to work at his own expense.
The LORD MAYOR—And you consider that danger is
to be apprehended from the state of the boarding?
Mr. Howitt—Certainly,
The LORD MAYOR—As that is the case I shall at once
send to Alderman Gibbs to inform him of the fact, and
I have no doubt that a remedy will be speedily adminis-
tered.
Two ticket-porters were charged before the Lord
Mayor, one of them having by violence prevented per-
sons from carrying goods which were landed from a
steamer at the Custom-house, upon the pretence that the
work belonged by right to the ticket-porters alone, and
the other with having used abusive language to the com-
plainants, tending to excite to a breach of the peace.
The defendants said they had purchased the privilege,
for which they frequently contended with aliens, or
those who were not ticket-porters, from the corporation
of London, and that if they were not to be allowed to
exercise that privilege, it was only fair that the money
they had paid should be returned to them.
The LORD MAYOR strongly condemned the conduct of
the defendants in having dared to lay their hands upon
property they could not have any right to touch, and
stated that he had received several communications re-
lative to their assumption of authority. His Lordship
considered that, under all the circumstances, he was
called upon to inflict upon the two offenders the full
penalties, amounting to forty shillings each.
An appeal was made to his Lordship upon the part of
the defendants by some respectable residents of the
neighbourhood, who had long known them, and who re-
presented that the fault was the result of a misconcep-
tion of the nature of the remedy to which they were en-
titled in the case of other persons stepping in to do their
duties.

MARYLEB ONE.
William Allan, the proprietor of the Yorkshire Stingo,
New-road, appeared at this Court, on a summons ob-
tained against him by the police, for harbouring prosti-
tutes and other disorderly persons on his premises.
Mr. Bodkin appeared for the defence.
A very great number of licensed victuallers were in
attendance, as it was surmised that the whole merits of
the question, which has heretofore been differently de-
cided by different Police Magistrates, would be fully
entered upon.
Sergeant Bennett, 18 D, said that, on the night of the
10th instant, he, with Inspector Brown and Sergeant
Jones, accompanied also by a police-constable, went to
the defendant's house. The time might be twenty-five
minutes to twelve. They there saw twelve or fourteen
prostitutes drinking in front of the bar, and he (Sergeant
Bennett) at once asked to see the landlord (Mr. Allan),
and informed him that the individuals there were of the
worst description. Mr. Allan asked what he could do,
and what authority he had to turn such characters from
his house ? He (Serjeant Bennett) could not inform
him, and Mr. Allan then went outside with the inspector.
At a few minutes after twelve, about twenty women left
the bar, and the place then closed.
Similar evidence was given by Sergeant Jones and
the police-constable.
Mr. Bodkin contended that the evidence did not bear
out the charge against his client. He thought that the
Legislature bad never contemplated such cases as that
before the Magistrate, when they framed the Police Act.
It was more intended to apply to houses where, not only
prostitutes were admitted, but where also gross immo-
rality was openly allowed. He referred to such houses
as Mother H.'s, and other houses of a similar character,
in the vicinity of the large theatres. The defendant
had no wish to encourage such personages about his
house, and the best proof of such disposition was that he
allowed them no further than his bar, and even there
there were not seats to rest upon. lie might also refer
to the time that the parties bad been allowed to remain
after the hint given by the police as to their character ;
but his great argument, and he thought it an unanswer-
able one, was, that these very unfortunate females were
as much entitled to refreshments and the shelter of a
roof for the time being as the more favoured of her
Majesty's subjects. He had never heard the time in
which these unfortunate females were to drink their
glass of beer or other liquor specifically mentioned,
and, as far as his experience went, be did not think it
was developed in the Act of Parliament.
Mr. LONG thought the wording of the Act had de-
cidedly been contravened by the defendant. The
worthy Magistrate then, in the most lucid manner, ana-
lysed the statute, and showed that the intention of the
Legislature had been set at nought on the night in
question. He, therefore, felt it his duty to inflict a pe-
nalty of 50s. for the offence.
Mr. Bodkin requested the Magistrate to make it 31.,
as in that case his client might appeal.
The worthy MAGISTRATE at once acceded, and
Mr. Bodkin, on the part of his client, gave notice of an
appeal to the first quarter sessions.
MARLBOROUGH-STREET.
Josiah Broderick or Broderick, a labouring man, living in
Crown-street, Soho, was charged on the police sheet with
having wounded his wife, Margaret, with a razor.
It appeared that about nine o'clock on Wednesday night
screams of murder were heard issuing from the house occu-
pied by the prisoner and his wife. When the room was en-
tered, the prisoner was found with his arms round his wife,
who was bleeding from a severe wound on the arm. The
woman, at first, said her husband had inflicted it with a
razor, which was found on the floor covered with blood, but
afterwards declared she had wounded herself, because her
husband had packed up his clothes with the intention of de-
serting her.
The policeman who took the man into custody produced a
surgeon's certificate, stating that the woman was too much
injured to appear at present. The wound extended from the
upper part of the arm to below the elbow, and some of the
muscles were completely severed.
The prisoner declared that he never injured man, woman,
or child, in his life. When his wife cut herself with the razor
he seized her, iu order to prevent her from doing herself more
mischief.

The LORD MAYOR said that if the defendants were
aggrieved by the conduct of unlicensed persons in per-
forming the work they claimed the right to perform, they
had their remedy in the Mayor's Court ; but to seize
people's goods and insist upon carrying them was a
course which would naturally be met with resistance
likely to prove very disagreeable to men who presumed
to exercise such authority. His Lordship then stated
that, as the present was the first case of the description
which had been brought before him, and as it was re-
presented to him that the defendants had acted from a
misconception of the legitimate exercise of their privi-
leges, he should not inflict the penalties in either case.
Ile, however, gave notice to the defendants, and through
them to all the ticket-porters of the City, that he should
fine any future delinquent the full amount of the
highest fine.

The case of John Mitchell, who was examined on
Saturday last, at the Mansion-house, before Sir John
Phi°, upon the charge of having deserted from the 61st
Regiment eleven years ago, a as, as was stated by the
Press, submitted to the:military secretary at the Horse-
Guards, by the Alderman, on that day. It will be re-
, collected that Sir John Pine felt very much for the poor
man, who was represented to be a most industrious and
honest person, and declared that it was his intention to
make a particular application to the War-office relative
to the defendant. The following is the answer to Sir
John Pine's communication:—
" Horse-Guards, June 19, 1844.
"Sir—Your letter of the 17th inst., addressed to the
Military Secretary, having, with its inclosures, been re-
ferred by him to this department, and by me submitted to
the Commander-in-Chief, I have it in command to ac-
quaint you, that his Grace has, under all the circum-
stances of the case of John Mitchell, alleged to be a de-
serter from the 61st Regiment, been pleased to sanction
his being released with a protecting certificate.—l have
the honour to be, Sir, your most obedient humble ser-
vant, " JOHN MACDONALD, Adjutant-General.
" Sir John Pine Bart., 71. Cornhill."
That Sir John Pirie's active humanity was most pro-
perly exercised may be inferred from the following letter
from Mr. Hayward, the Common Councilman, in whose
service Mitchell had lived for a considerable time.

Mr. HARDWICK ordered the prisoner to be remanded until
the wife could come forward to give her evidence.
Mr. William Wake, a young gentleman, giving his address
at the Albion Hotel, Cockspur-street, whose very green
waistcoat, high shirt collar, and tout ensemble, indicated that
he was rather "fresh upon town," charged one Miss Caro-
line Field, of the Cornwall-road, with having abstracted from
his pocket his canary bandana.
Mr. Wake said, he went into the HaymarketiSaloon for
refreshment, and, having been invited into the bar by Mrs.
Harris, the proprietress of the place, he ordered a bottle of
champagne and a cigar. After smoking his weed and seeing
the bottom of his bottle, lie called for some tea. 'When the
tea was dispatched he prepared to leave the saloon, as it was
three, or four, or it might be five o'clock, at which time
there was only himself, the prisoner, and the waiter in the
saloon, though at one period of the night it had been toler-
ably full of ladies and gentlemen. On a sudden he missed
his handkerchief, and feeling assured it had been taken either
by the waiter or the prisoner, he complained to Mrs. Harris,
who ordered a search to be made, and the handkerchief was
found in a drawer in the kitchen. The prisoner had gone
down stairs after the handherchief was missed, and he pre-
sumed she must have taken that opportunity of placing the
property where it had been found.

" 93, Minories, .Tune 19, 1844.
" My dear Sir John—Accept my
.thanks for your
active benevolence on behalf of the poor fellow, John
Mitchell, who is just returned to me with heart full of
gratitude, and lam sure he will bear your kindness to
him in lasting remembrance, as well as your much
obliged and humble servant,

" T. C. HAYWARD."
CLERKENWELL.
John Stewart and Sarah Pattison, alias Brown, alias
Moore, alias Thompson, were brought up on remand,
charged with endeavouring to obtain money on false
pretences from numerous individuals of high and humble
station.
The preceding part of the case appeared in our paper
of yesterday.
Mr. John Evelyn Denison, M. P., of Burlington
House, Piccadilly, deposed that, on the 22d of May last,
the female prisoner called at his residence, and presented
a note, of which the following is a copy :
" Mrs. Brown, of Mahon (which place Mr. Denison
represents in Parliament), intreats the favour of an in-
terview with Mr. J. E. Denison, in order to explain cir-
cumstances of an urgent nature."
Witness saw her, and she represented herself to be in
great distress, and said she belonged to the town of Mal-
ton. She asked him for money. He asked her whether
or not she would give him any reference in confirmation
of her story ? upon which she referred him to Mr,
Thomas Keane, of Garlick-hill, Croydon. He wrote a
letter to Mr. Keane the same afternoon, to which he re-
ceived the following answer :—" Mr. Keane would feel
much obliged by Mr. Denison's giving in charge to the
police the person who represents herself as Mrs. Brown.
She has obtained money from several of my acquaint-
ances on a similar fraudulent representation." Witness
asked her where she lived ? and she replied at No. 12.
Dog and Bear-yard, Toeley-street. Witness then pro-
mised, if her story proved true, that he would afford her
some assistance.

Mr. MALTnr—Were you quite sober?
Mr. Wake—Oh, dear yes. Why, I had only one glass out
of the bottle of champagne. The rest was all drank up by
the girls about me.
Mr. MALTsy—Did the prisoner have any of it? Mr. Wake
—She had a glass with the rest.
The door-keeper was called to prove that the prisoner had
been seen to enter the kitchen, but lie declared ha was too
drowsy at the time to notice anything.
The waiter was called to prove the same thing, but he de-
prisoner could possibly have taken
thewas close to her all the time. It had,
P
some other girl, out of a lark.
theelearArhlehrad.apnlsilVdebka dideke erenc—hntil:e tk handkerchief,
think
l y
ask this waiter a few questions. Now
then, you are on your oath, tell me do you think I'm made of
glass? Waiter—l don't mean to say you are.
Mr. Wake—Then, as you were on oae side of me and the
girl on the other, it's impossible you could have seen her
" bone" my handkerchief, if I ain't made of glass.
Mr. MArrsy—l don't think you make out your case.
Mr. Wake—There's an evident attempt to crush the evi-
dence—there's a plot to smuggle up the fact, but I know you'll
deal with the charge in a proper manner.
Mr. MALTBY—I dismiss the case.
Mr. Wake walked out of Court, looking very much of a
piece with his waistcoat.

THE POLISH BALL.
We (Post) copy the following from the Hamburgh
Borsenhalle, of June 14, as received from that paper's
London correspondent, without, however, in the least,
guaranteeing the authenticity of the document:—
"LONDON, JUNE 11.—The Duchess of -Somerset,
whose name stood at the head of the list of ladies who
patronised the Polish Ball, which took place yesterday,
had addressed a note to Baron Brunnow, the Russian
Minister here, expressing her regrets, and the willing-
ness of the Lady Patroness to postpone the ball to a fu-
ture day, if the Emperor should wish it. By his Im-
perial Majesty's command the Duchess received the
following reply:—

Mr. Gibson, a gentleman residing at Blackheath, de-
posed that the female prisoner called upon him on the
18th of January last. He refused to see her at first,
but at the instance of his wife had an interview with
her. She said her object was to get her little boy into
the Yorkshire School. She said her name was Brown.
He recommended her to call on Mr. Tristam, Secretary
to the Yorkshire Society. She produced a letter, pur-
porting to be written by Mr. Keane, of Croydon, settinc,
forth her destitute condition, and certifying as to theb
excellence of her character. The witness and his
family subscribed 12s. 6d. for her immediate relief, and
promised to interest themselves in her welfare. She
said she was a widow, and going to open a little shop.
Mr. Henry Tristam, Secretary to the Yorkshire
Society, having been sworn, received several letters
from the Magistrate, which had been found on the
prisoners, purporting to be recommendations and cer-
tificates of character of the female prisoner by him;
also a red book, in which his name was entered as a
subscriber of various sums of money for her relief.
Witness had never seen the prisoners before, and the
whole of the letters and signatures were forgeries.
Horsford and Rainey, the Mendicity officers, deposed
that they visited the prisoner's lodgings, in 14, Charles-
street, Tower-street, Westminster-road, on the previous
evening, and found two little girls, daughters of the pri-
soners, locked up in a room there. Witness produced a
large quantity of note-paper, also a seal and sealing-wax,
which he found there. They found 120 forged recom-
mendations of character, and certificates of other kinds,
and 33 notes folded and sealed. The notes wore ad-
dressed to Mr. Adair, St. James's-square ; Sir R. F.
Russel, Cavendish-square ; Lady M‘Donald, Eaton-
square ; Lady Whiticote, Stratford-place ; Countess of
Eglinton, New Bond-street ; Sir H. 11. Vivian, Grillon's
Hotel ; Hon. J. C. Dnndas ; Colonel Baker, Old Caven-
dish-street ; Mr. Ward, M.P. ; and other persons of
distinction.

" Windsor Castle, June 5.
"My DEAR DUCHESS,--A thousand thanks for your
friendly communication with regard to the Charity Ball
which is to take place on Monday, the 10th instant, for
the purpose of assisting Poles in distress residing in this
country. I have not failed to lay before his Majesty
what you have been kind enough to say on the subject.
Before, however, I did so, I felt quite sure of his Ma-
jesty's intentions, and I am now extremely happy to be
authorised to communicate to you, my dear Duchess,
that the benevolent object which the ladies of the Ball
Committee have in view, cannot possibly meet with any
kind of objection. His Majesty is not personally ac-
quainted with the ladies at the head of the Committee;
but, as to the benevolent institution itself, I have only to
inform you, that in case the subscription list has not
closed yet, and an additional sum to the funds at your
disposal should be desirable, or requisite, I have been
commanded to sign my name for any sum which you
may think proper to mention, for the fulfilment of your
benevolent intentions.--Yours, &c.
(Signed) " BRUNNOW.
" Her Grace the Duchess of Somerset.' "

The following fact, we conceive, presents a new
feature in the science of ornithology : —On Friday
evening last, as two young men belonging to this
town were leisurely strolling up the new road to-
wards Lonsdale•place, they •bserved a whitethroat
in the act of catering for its young. After watching
the parent bird's motions for some time, they suc-
ceeded in tracing it to its nest, in which they found seven
young ones, three of them full fledged, and four which
had apparently not been hatched more than a couple of
days. As it is a known fact that parent birds never per-
mit others to participate in their nests, so we believe no
instance is on record in which two hatchings of birds
have ever been discovered at the same time in one nest.
Can any of our country readers furnish us with a paral-
lel to this circumstance ?—Cumberland Pacquet.
EXTRACTS FROM THE IMPORTS.—Some of the arti-
cles imported into this country are somewhat curious in their
nature, as the following items will show. Thus, among the
skins imported and payingduty towards the revenue are enu•
merated those of cats. In the half-year ending the sth Ja-
nuary, 1842, no fewer than 2,096 " undressed cat-skins" were
admitted, paying 91. 3s. 3d. duty; in the half-year ending
the sth January, 1843, 981 skins, paying 31. I9s. duty, and
in the half-year ending the sth January, 1844, 601 cat-
skins. Thus, the fur of the feline race seems to be going
down in the market Two pounds of candle-wick have
been imported in the same three half-years, paying a duty
of one shilling and eightpence ! and upwards of 500 tons of
bullrusbes, exclusive of 248 loads in the first of the three
half years! Again, there have been imported during the
same periods no fewer than 36,0001b5. of waste paper, pay-
ing nearly I,OOW. duty ! and some 1,600/. worth of slate pen-
cils, paying nearly 3001. duty ! About 3501. was derived as
duty from ships imported to be broken up, during the like half
years; and nearly 600 dog-skins were also imported " in the
hair !" Such are a few of the curiosities of the import lists of
this great commercial country, showing that there is nothing
so trifling, or apparently useless, from which commerce does
not manage to derive snipe advantage,

There were likewise found among the papers of these
artful impostors several Parliamentary Directories,
Court Guide, Navy Lists, warrants of distress, some of
them filled up and some of them were blank printed forms;
surgeons' certificates and hospital certificates; printed
forms from almost every hospital in London ;
reports of the Welsh, Caledonian, Indigent Scotch, and
at least one half the benevolent societies in London.
There was also a letter purporting to be written by Lieut.-
Colonel Campbell, and dated United Service Club, 30th
March. It would appear from the papers, that the hus-
band at one time represented himself as an in-
firm
seaman, and at another, the female pri-
soner us the widow of a persom of that class.
Accordingly a printed form of petition to Trinity
House was found among the papers partly filled up, and
claiming a pension on account of the naval services of
her deceased husband. There was another petition to
the Orphan Asylum filled up and ready for presenta-
tion, and one to the Deaf and Dumb Asylum ; there were
also attempts to imitate the handwriting of distinguished
individuals, whose signatures they had seen or obtained,
and there were several slips of papers found in their
apartment covered with these imitations. Some of them
were a very close resemblance ; Mr. Tristram acknow-
ledged his to be so. These clever forgeries were in many
instances the chief cause of their success. The following
is a copy of the notes addressed by the female prisoner
to the distinquished individuals above mentioned :
" The following particulars of inevitable distress are
respectfully submitted by a helpless widow on behalf of

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, JUNE 2l, 1844.

was

night that it might he necessary, after th
vember next, when the Brazilian treaty would exPlele.
take the whole subject of the sugar duties into
ration ; but in the present state of' slavery exp,
Cuba and Brazil, her Majesty's Government
Of
0,
think it was advisable to encourage the sugar "Die
countries. He would not pledge himself that the
was to be permanent. Baronet
Lord HOWICK thought the Right Hon. be
was wise in not pledging himself that the Bill shoe
stilt
permanent—(Laughter)—for he thought it ueueseero
very doubtful that it would not now miscarry—(
at the
The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had said t state
Government possessed information respecti g trte say
of servitude in Java, from which they were abl
that the sugar of that island was not the produce 0,
`
slave labour. Why was that information withhela'
the House ?—(Cheers.)
el ied.
Mr. GLADSTONE and Mr. P. M. STIWART ex. se, de'
Mr. HUME wished the Right Hon. Gentleman Leto,
fine what free-labour sugar was, and whether airy 'seed
try in which slavery did not exist was entitled to
sugar to our markets?—(Mr. Hume then sat down, wdt
ing for an answer, but nobody rising to give enY)' oalle
The HON. MEMBER again rose, and that it was be
shameful that so important a clause as this shone
bungled and slurred over in such a manner.
There was still a pause. ht Ws'
Mr. SHEIL rose, and said he thought the Right chi
Gentleman, the President of the Board, of Trade tainly
to answer he query of his Hon. Friend. It cer ereo
was important for the Committee to know whether
slavery did exist in Cochin-China.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that the Governmesuebre,
not in possession of sufficient information on the
`vas
spot
ject to say whether the sugar in Cochin-China w
raisedslave lbour.
Mr. SHELL said the answer of the Right lion' Ger
of
tleman showed how necessary it was that proper Moe
should be made before the House proceeded to givdee. It
large discretionary powers to the Board of Trade' ion
was quite plain that Government was not in possee to
of sufficient information to enable the House to Ocoee
a conclusion of so much importance as that to whi° le to
were now asked to arrive at. The proposition snug f the
be carried was really one of the cardinal points of
Bill. e ens
After a few words from Mr. HUME, the motion
,e, be
withdrawn, the Hon. Member giving notice that
would renew his motion on the subject when the r '
was brought up.
On clause 4 being proposed,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said the question of ce.rtiee6"
cates involved in this clause was one of the greatertne,
portance. It was besides perfectly novel in le ari„in
What guarantee had they that the certificates of eiteto
would be faithful and correct ? They were about
of
admit Chinese sugar, and to exclude the silk/ergo
Cochin-China. But it was very well known thatebee
quantities of sugar were exported from Cochin-400
into China. The Cochin-China sugur and the Cpe has
sugar would lay in the same warehouse—then wherbees'
the guarantee that Cochin- Chinese sugar would u°t,teere
ported from China into this country? In the same 110 the
was a great deal of sugar imported from Cuba inthat
it
United States, and the only guarantee they hadeea ests
would not come into this country through America
those certificates of origin. It was very easy t° Dries')
foreign affidavits. As to the reliance on the itiefg'
Consul, he must say that, along with thinking it test
cient, he thought it would be very degrading Wsaesr
officer to be obliged to look after every cargo Tile
s;s*
that left the port at which he was stationed. Teceriti
tern of affidavits introduced did not give much s-stoty
to the public, for every one knew how little eue
house oaths were valued, or thought of; in fact d eneete
his main objections to the Bill was, that it tencots'weaken and undermine commercial veracity 511 that
mercial fidelity. On the whole, he did not thinh this
" the shadow of a shade" of an advantage whieecent *
Bill held out, and which would vanish the 131°' o'4
practical effect was sought to be given, was in asitetiog
sufficient to counterbalance the disadvantages re!h
from the hostility to us from foreign powers wille
Bill would inevitably create. ,as
Mr. HAMPDEN said that he believed there,- (rote
ambiguity in the Bill, which, as he understooo,, eer
some of his friends, would exclude the necessity 0` to
tificates of origin from the Americans. He wished
call the attention of the Government to the subJeceh his
Mr. GLADSTONE said he quite agreed Witn his
Right Hon. Friend opposite (Mr. Labouchere) 1 eery
assertion that the question of the certificates was sas to
important one ; but he wholly differed from hi-171,0014
the amount of difficulty which he apprehended
arise from the use of them. He freely adroitteullih;
this was the most important part of the Bill. The would
Hon. Gentleman said the power to prevent fraud via
rest solely and entirely ou the certificate of origin' roe
was not the case—indeed it was very far from the ore
Under the existing law of this country occasioneej of
constantly arising in which certificates were require of
of
the origin of things introduced into it. This was 0
the main principles of the navigation laws--one not
most essential characteristics. Therefore it yeas.t.ene
new practice ; there was no novelty whatever in 11,0
untried experiment, but simply a duty which eery;
public officers were called upon habitually to dieehatoof
and this was not done in every case, or even in
there
cases, by means of a special investigation. Whe'lleiateil
was reason to suppose that a fraud was conterareeP
then of course the facts and circumstances were sP-theP,
cally inquired into, but when such was not the oase:„0 of
there was only the usual and ordinary examinet' the
the ship's papers. Therefore, under this Bill, anne-,eill
instances referred to, the proper authorities would -01
have to do that which they were accustomed to on
other occasions. The Right Hon. Gentleman (3-ir' Teo'
bouchere) seemed to think that the Government eeel
posed to depend solely on the certificate ; theYees
no such thing, but on other general precautions ascerti'
The Right Hon. Gentleman also stated that oe .hich
ficate of origin had heretofore been required, with leo)
foreigners had any thing to do. He (Mr. Glaciserl to
knew not whether his Right Hon. Friend referrAeri
foreigners holding official situations, or to fore; ire
carrying on and usually engaged in mercantile sete be
If he referred to the former, of course it wouldo..ed to
required ; if to the latter, he (Mr. Gladstone) ben"
say it was not a novel feature in the Bill. As fbereitleerf
carried on business in English ports, so did Eugie,isest, of
chants in foreign ports ; and their signatures P.• of the
necessity, be oftentimes taken in various matters
rgeee
highest importance. But his Right Hon. Friend 3 lVe'
that where there was a strong interest to ae,e.aloei•
a certificate of origin would be of u°
He did not agree in that with bis root!
Honourable Friend ; and, further, he rails'
to
ot
hlffeeesesy
eStshirl
al
InBo3ffisv,heli
vs
hi
aeolrifevpne friend,tnhcee
iilll e
°net
fraudAhli mont awf ingeltseh,en Co
where a certificate of origin was requiredeetilibel,l:::rnc;e4
which arrangement he (Mr. Gladstone) had
na,
heard that fraud had been successfully practis° at °Pe-
him assure his Right Hon. Friend that fraudwe They
rations could not be carried on without expense'e
had not merely the liabilities of detection to col)t
but the absolute burden of heavy disburseueetPosake
commit fraud in these matters, a vessel 113130d,an
second voyage in order to give effect to that irartiese-i
look at the expense which this incurred to there ecate f
origin,f
gaged
bin eit r
.G lWhy,ad s
teovneen)
shouldwithout
be
verythese
trick or imposition? but then he thought ;he Plight of
little 720p1e
England had a right to require them—lead Letioohoe
require every precaution against the intro they his
oefrao
slave-grown sugar, after the heavy sacrideq 113 e,O
made to suppress slavery in their own COlonieso to rty
opinion the fears of the Right Hon. Gentleratuhrie eeraclee
Consuls being unpleasantly mixed up with w Jed. eif'
of individuals would turn out wholly unfoun The
him look at the real difficulty in such a eetiosee'eein-Ch
ficulty was to be satisfied that the sugar 0' `eort,
was not exported from China. Why, ate a 'eporie to.
one knew what articles were imported, lewt'n boun"re;
where they came from, whence they wertee
These were matters of daily conversation ou old east or
and any man of ordinary common sense c
oods
tilt
a what was going on in respect to g eculatidt
a fragile, and light, and portable, but of
lends
NV it,
bulky and heavy character. If they were or 10
things that could be carried about in their
runbore le
their pockets—with spirits, that could be talk °f al
es,
kegs, then they might, with some reason, Ackag t
'elY P could 0°
ficulties ; but with large, heavy, and unwl to
such as sugar was stowed away in, he, for ° as
anticipate the slightest practical difficultylist the `veer
the transhipping of these packages, what
notice obsedone
be about to let it take place without not] us
itry
tion? It could not be done in the dark—it ni
end to ee
in the daylight, and it required much laboured_t teat
to
hands. The Right Hon. Gentlemen bad ste4stigar we.,*°o
thought the attempt to exclude slave-grown opine' he
be inoperative, and he believed that to be efAirti par.eiert
the whole commercial world. Now, for his °.hat oeln
was of a decidedly opposite opinion, and by
the
he should abide. douhteere,
Mr. HAWES said there could be
,viee titeretile t
transhipment would be unprofitable, and 'et'Ytre des
sg,„,
should they clog it with a differential duty
_sr eteid to e ,eto
the Right Hon. Gentleman had entirely t lefetatioo
blish his own case, and he hoped theis,,tsewske',
fraud would not meet the sanction of the Je„huu gen.
Lord PALMERSTON thought the Veteeile cut
tleman's argument on this question heasr,Ttelas 1!*5; to
the ground on which this measure
an
e"
ark autosl°,6o
because he said that the advantage officient temPite
td
the British market would not be
to induce persons to commit fraaudsl.l;
be a very great advantage in such a
inent
Government made that advantage an rgu
the measure proceed on the assumptiondtinhtetstillie,i.nutttlibbiell
Brazilian Government for altering
ha valuedaisn;etetnearolvpsetnebteioon
toH emustfraud, assume,otherw otherwise
however,these
guardsthat thwetroheu:ilsre of
no t
the
'ntroduced ; but he held those guards to ee
Leastdiffilchueltsye.was
assell and upon
t_
e,,ficate-itio
tion of a party interested,
duties 7.13000
n Britishu s t pr
oc
toens consul
againstul
cAerltlifiticiaattelsva.csould be o b
thed N:iietree°,usstehr;
a Britise tot
consuls. It was no part of the duty
such
/natters; al tar-
to act as a judge of foreigners in
were reguleet
was
rtelicieuirequired
entrusting tnoee signeodf such r"
chants. What ithwinhhatiswporuz
to tell foreigners residing where he wase.
he believed they were telling him a f!telss, h rn
ibnecehisvapsostitioriirfteheet:::::::
1 ents. TheY ',jog
t creating
and through him on British merchants.ty a
lel•eoaurld) exert\Vh ytliefmliseelinveasd made secret
eerie.
throwing on British consuls the
evtenengeemtihemtsleiohsrees -0-nehveist,';
hear.) t
to diminish their efficiency.—(Hear, f
to Oil
there oie
treated the Right Hon. Gentleman .
eerherl" teet
enemies, and were thus doing what would tend greatly
himself with the certificate of the foreign
e_er,„
said
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQU-reR
that if CulL:
what his Right Hon. Friend contended was,
,e, h„
ere.. ee,
to render fraud less probable than it otherwise ee;
couriotothuesrrsoliaitvee,-tgrheo'evxnpseungsaerihhuasd itnocuberrfecdrilveaar;s:i.vsede-a'et°
There were cases already, in which the eves p
Why a
_go.ioui guV
uld
cessurily exposed tg odium.

--
Lord PALMERSTON continued—The Right
Hon. Gentleman wished to confine him to Java.—
(Laughter.) But he would insist that wherever
slavery existed, the slave trade must be carried on.
He would not call it hypocrisy, because hypocrisy
implied some pretence ; but he would say that a more
barefaced inconsistency, one more obvious to the
meanest capacity, than the one contained in this
clause had never been proposed to Parliament. When
they had withdrawn all the free labour sugar from
the market of Europe, of course the deficiency
thus created in that market would be sup-
plied by slave labour sugar. This was one
invincible objection which he entertained to the
measure. There was, moreover, a constitutional
objection to the clause. By that clause the Govern-
ment took to themselves the power of opening the
market by deciding upon the laws, constitutions, and
customs of other Governments. When Parliament
invested Government with powers of that nature,
they should lay down rules clearly defining the
principle by which the Government was to be guided,
so that if the Government departed from that principle
they might be subject to the disapprobation of Parlia-
ment. The Right Hon. Gentleman took upon him-
self to decide upon all the different degrees of servi-
tude, from the slavery of Cuba and Brazil to a state of
mere serfdom. The Government thus took upon
themselves to judge of the different laws
and customs of other countries, and were allowed
to open the market to the produce of any country
which they might determine to be sufficiently tinged
with freedom.—(Hear, hear.) Now that was not a
very intelligible principle. If, instead of that, the
clause had enacted that the British market should be
open to sugar the produce of all countries in which
the slave trade was not carried on, that distinction
would have been at least intelligible. He might think
that it would not be advisable to introduce such
a distinction, but at all events it would be an intelli-
gible one. At present there was no intelligible dis-
tinction, and he thought the clause altogether so ob-
jectionable; that he felt bound to vote against it.
Sir J. HANMER wished to call the attention of
his Right Hon. Friend the President of the Board of
Trade to the fact that a considerable proportion of
the trade between the Phillipine Islands and the
Manilla was carried on in Spanish bottoms. He
trusted that this matter would not escape the atten-
tion of her Majesty's Government. He also wished
to know why the island of Porto Rico should not be
enumerated among the places from which free-labour
sugar was to be introduced.
Mr. GLADSTONE said there was a very consi-
derable proportion of free labour in Porto Rico, but
at the same time there was a great deal of slave
labour employed in that island, and it was imprac-
ticable to draw any distinction in the case of that
island.--(Cheers from the Opposition.) The matter
alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman was one of much
importance. The Hon. Gentleman had accurately
stated that differential duties were still in ex-
istence, and no treaty had been entered in to with
Holland relating to the intercourse with Java.
With respect to Manilla the same practice also pre-
vailed. The long voyages from the Philippine Islands
were not performed by Spanish vessels, but chiefly
by British ; and with regard to the export duties
levied at Manilla, the difference was so slight as to
be scarcely worthy of consideration.
Mr. HUME said it was the object of Parliament,
in legislating on these matters, to lay down certain
principles in a Bill, and then tolay down such rules as
should prevent any deviation from it. They now
began to find out the difficulties which encompassed
the plan of her Majesty's Government.--(Hear, hear.)
He wanted to know if Government could and would
define what the law was. If they could not define it
now, how could they hope to define it hereafter ?
(Hear, hear.) The fact was, the only conclusion the
House could come to was that the Government itself
did not know what the clause meant.—(Cheers.)
Now, he would ask them this question—Was Egyp-
tian sugar admissible under this Bill ? They could
not tell him—(Cheers)—and if they would not tell,
how could foreign Governments know in what way
to advise these people to regulate their trade with
this country ? He had never seen the Right Hon.
Baronet so anxious to get rid of a question as he was
that night, and really he was not surprised at it.
St.ll he should be sorry to see the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet go out at the present moment—though the di-
vision on Monday night was carried by the free
traders, par excellenee—(Laughter) —still he could not
conceive, after the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet,
that he would have remained in office had the
majority been against him.—(Hear.) But this
was no matter.—(Laughter.) It was possible that
this Bill would have to be carried out by another Go-
vernment, and they ought to lay down certain prin-
ciples which could be understood by the general in-
terpretation of the words. How would they deal
with the sugar of Louisiana ?
Lord STANLEY—That is under a treaty.
Mr. HUME—But suppose the treaty should
cease ?—(Hear, hear.) Acts of Parliament ought
not to be intelligible only to Ministers of State ; they
ought to be intelligible to men of ordinary under-
standing. They ought to lay down a distinction
between slave-grown sugar and free sugar, and after
the new interpretation that had been given by the
Right Honourable Gentleman, he thought the
House ought to have another opportunity of express-
ing its opinion. He moved that the further considera-
tion of this clause be deferred.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said the opportunity de-
sired by the Honourable Gentleman had been sug-
gested to him from his own Parliamentary know-
ledge in the motion he had just made, and he
hoped the House would express their opinion upon it.
The Noble Lord had proposed that the discriminating
duty of 10s. should be applied to sugar, the produce of
slave labour, equally with sugar the produce of
free labour. The House had decided against the
Noble Lord's proposition ; and if he were not satisfied
with their decision, he would have an opportunity of
again raising the question on the bringing up of the
report. He did not think the Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site had a right to call upon the Government to an-
swer a variety of hypothetical cases. As only a year
would elapse before the treaty with the United States
would expire, it was hardly necessary to discuss the
question.
Mr. LABOUCHERE hoped the Hon. Gentleman
would comply with the Right Hon. Baronet's sug-
gestion ; because he was not without hopes that
when they had gone through the clauses of the Bill it
would be so clear that the people of this country were
called upon to make all those sacrifices for no
practical benefit ; that they were exhibiting
themselves in the eyes of the world as people who
were unable to carry their own principles into
effect ; that they were introducin g a system of
extensive fraud in the commercial world, that the
House upon the report would be induced to reverse
their decision.—(Cheers.) The more they discussed
the question, the more evident it would be, that it was
not advisable to attempt to draw a distinction between
the two classes of foreign sugar.—(Cheers.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said, that although the Right
Hon. Gentleman recommended his Hon. Friend (Mr.
Hume) not to discuss the question on this clause,
he could not resist the temptation of stating in very
glowing language what were the arguments against
the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) An observation had been
made about the Government shifting their ground.
He begged to tell the Noble Lord that he was able
to give a confident denial to that statement, and the
Government were prepared to meet the Noble Lord's
objections point by point, whenever it would be con-
venient.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for
Montrose had attributed to him (Mr. Gladstone) the
having complained of being catechised on the subject
of this Bill. He was not aware that he had made
any such complaint, but certainly he must observe,
that with respect to the sugars of France, Austria,
and Northern Germany, that, as those countries had
barely enough to supply their own wants, he did not
think it necessary to provide for any contingency aris-
ing from those quarters. The matter, however, was
entirely at the discretion of the Government.
Mr. F. BARING said the clause gave to the Go-
vernment the power to admit sugar which they felt
satisfied was the produce of free labour. Under these
circumstances, they (the Opposition) asked the Go-
vernment to have the goodness to explain what they
meant by the produce of free labour, in order that
they might ascertain how they were likely to exer-
cise the power which was vested in them. The Right
Hon. Gentleman replied that he could not give any
definition.. He thought, putting the whole subject
together, the Government ought to' tell them what
were the species of sugar they intended to admit.
Mr. GLADSTONE defended the course the Go-
vernment had pursued.
Mr. P. M. STEWART would confine himself strictly
to the question before the Committee. The more this
Bill was discussed the more evident were its defects—
the more clear it became that the measure was wholly
indefensible. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite ac-
cused him of resorting to fallacy for the purpose of
making out a ease of slavery against Java, but the
Right Hon. Gentleman ought to know that all the
goods that came from Java were the produce of
forced labour—or, if they pleased, of modified slavery.
from which there was no escape without payment of a
ransom.--(llear, hear.) That was the real state of the
case, and he was sure that if the Right Hon. Gentleman
the President of the Board of Trade was fully aware of
the facts, he would not include Java in the category of
free-labour states. As for excluding the sugar c,f Brazil,
and other slave states, from British consumption, he was
aware of a recent case which proved that it was impos-
sible. A ship, with a large cargo of sugar, arrived at
Liverpool from Brazil, which was re-shipped in the Aus-
tralia and sent out to Bombay, where it was by this
time in the course of consumption by British subjects.—
(Hear, hear.)
Sir W. JAMES said that he did not know in what
way the Government intended to proceed, and until he
did so, he could not conscientiously vote with them.—
(Cheers and a laugh.) He wished to know whether he
was right in supposing that the Bill was not to be a per-
manent measure.
Sir B. PEEL had stated in the debate on Monday

at ai