The Sun.
London, England, 1819-11-25 00:00:00

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—Jim. Ir

THURSDAY. NOVEMBER '25, iBl9.

P A 111 j A AIEN T:

HOUSE OF LORDS, ‘VEDNESDAY, Nov. 24.

About half-past one o'clock, the Loup CHAN-
CF,LLOR Hod Suite cAtue .lowii to the House. His
Lordsitiv joie his robes of State, and a number
of Peels attended -In Court or Mili,ary dresses.

The Ahtrtittessi of (.21-10LMONDRLEY (Lord Ste-
ward) iirt-pteliuted the House with his Royal High-
ness the Prince Regent's pleasure to receive their
'Lordships' Addtvss thin day, at two o'clock,
Thr Bishop of EL Pli IN (one of the Irish 11 e -
presentative Prelates) took the oaths and his sAlat.

Their Lordships then, having previonsty ad-
journed the Reuse till to-morrow, proceeded in
gate to Carlton House, with their Address to his
Royal Highness the Prince Regent.

'The assertion of the Noble Lord, that the pro-
ceediogs which actually took place at `..latichester
Were nor intended to take flare, akd were not 'm-
lee the threcii.in of the Magistrates, made enquiry
the more desirable. What would have been said
of the military, if they had turned ahout and et-
tacked the Magistrates instead of the people ?
Atter the statement made by the Noble Lord, it
appeared that they had just as good a right to do
this, as they had to do what had been dope. The
Papers kid before the House aid not bear out the
Noble Lord ie the statements which he had wade.
There was nothing about the Riot Act being read
three times. The Noble Lord had stated one Ma•
gistrate, who went to read the Riot Act lo the
crowd to have been trodden down by the mob.
He had not mentioeed who that Magistrate was.
ki'liy did he not tell them his name ? He (Mr.
l-lume) Ironed the Noble Lord would make out
that which had been stated to the •House, but no
proof of it appeared in the Papers slow laid before
them. Mr. Norris would have been likely to speak
of the readings of the Riot Act, but ail that he said
on this subject was contained in one line, "Ii) the
mean time r he Riot Act was read, and the mob dis-
persed." le ever any circumstance called for em-
guiry, it was that to which public attention was
now directed, and that enquiry could not be sells-
feetoi ily conducted in a Court of Law, A Learned
Gentleman had said, there were 4 cases that would
make a meeting illegal—" numbers," devices,
arms, and threatening language. He wished to
know what statute determined the number that
made a meeting illegal ? Of the existence of such •
a law, he confessed be was wholly ignorant. It
was said, the timbers of a meeting might be so
great that it could not be controlled by the civil
power. He would admit, that when great num-
bers of persons assembled, when it was found
that they could riot be coerced by the civil power,
and when they were engaged in doing any thing
improper or unlawful, then, and then only might
a military force be resorted to with propriety,—
With all respect for the Learned Gentlemen who
had made the assertioe to which he alluded, lie
could not think what be had said with respect to
the numbers attending H meeting was law on this
side of the water, whatever it might he on the
other. He then urged, at some length, that the
meeting at' Manchester had not been illegal. It
it had been so, bow culpable were those who ap-
proved of its dispersion, in not Winging any of
those who at-ended it to justice before this time !
He gave the Noble Lord credit for sincerely be-
lieving what he had stated, but lie would ask what
confidence ought the Noble Lord and his col-
leagues to glace in Mr. Norris, and those acting'
tinder him, or at least in the yeports which they
might make, when it was known that a day or two
after the 16:h they had hastily shut up the Ex-
change at Manchester, and reported that an army
of 15,000 Radicals were then advancing to fire the
town and plunder its inhabitants. After this, he
would insist that ally representation which they
utialit make, ought to be received midi great can-
!ion. If the country- was disturbed, it ought not
to he supposed that it could be trenquillized by
injustice and severity. A different course must be
pursued. If Miaisters wished to Check discon-
tent, their conduct had been most impolitc.—
Those who now laboured to inflame the passions
of the people, had been lifted from insignificance
to importance by the injudicious proceedings of
the Government, He reminded the 1-loose of the
causes which had produced the French Revolu-
tion, and called upon them to proceed with cau-
tion, and to labour to conciliate rather than to
irritate the people. The Amendment, he thought,
pledged tine lizinse to nothing that was at all ob-
jectionable, for in his view of the subject some
inquiry was absolutely necessary, as nothing but
inquiry could vindicate the conduct of the Magis-
trates, and satisfy the country.
Lord CASTLEREAGII rose to explain a part of
what be had-said on the former night, as lie had
been misrepresented, in consequence of being mis-
conceived by the- Hon. Gentleman who had just
sat dovin. His assertion that the meeting was
dispersed in a manner in which the Manchester
Mad strates had not contemplated that it would
be dispersed, even when they-considered it to be
an illegal meeting, had been referred to ; .and it
was assumed front this, that the meeting bad been
illegally dispersed, without the sanction of the
Magistrates. What he had said was, that the
leathers had been seized, and every preparation
made for dispersing the meeting under the Riot
Act, and every possible means were adopted for
giving notice to the crowd of this their intention.
That which ensued, he had stated to be the con-
sequence of an attack suede on the military at the
•bustoogs by an aimed mob. The Honourable
Member had a,sunied )e hat then took place to have
been unauthorized by the Magistrates. Lie (Lord
Castlereagh) had assumed that it was in self-de-
fence that they had acted, which gave them a
right of repelling; forte by force. Thet House,
he had said, was not the place where filets like
these could be established, so as to enable
them to render substantial justice to the par-
ties ; but he had kit iiiteselt called upon to (p-
-pose asserting by assertion. The dispersion of
the Meeting, effected as it bad been, the Ilenour•
able Member lissomly(' to be illegal, because it
had not been its the contemplation of the Magis-
trates. He (Loud Castlereagh) held it to have
been justified on the principle or self defence
lie had now to state a tact which he bad not been
table to commnnicate lest night. lie hind now to
'liftmen the House, that the dispersion had taken
piece wider the immediate orders of a Megistrate.
He would nerrette the circumstances :—A smell
COTS of the Yeomanry (about 40 in number) went
anioug the crowd to support the Consteble in the
performance of his ditty. When they arrived at the
hustinpa coollici was commenced, in cuusevence

[PRICE SEVENPENCE.

(as he was informed) of an attack made on the
-soldiers. One of the Magistrates, who observed
from a window neat the spot what was Passing,
and who, with Colonels L'Estrange and Dalrym-
ple, saw these 40 of the Yeoinanry not only as-
' sailed, bur, as it appeared to them, overwhelmed
by the crowd, said to the Officers, " Do you not
-see the perilous situation in which the Yeomanry
are placed ?'' and upon that gave then► orders to
support the Yeomanry, and disperse the Meeting.
In consequence of this, the 15th Regiment and the
Cheshire Yeomanry, which formed the supporting
force, advanced, and the Meeting was dispersed.
Now, passing to another point, he begged to say
that he had not stated the whole of the informa-
tion on which Ministers had fottned their judg-
ment to be contained in the papers laid on the
table that night. For the remark made on Mr.
Norris, that he. had not n►entioued the three read-
ings of the Riot Act, he did nut see much in
How co►>ld it be expected, after such a day of tu-
mult, and after a night disturbed by frequent
riots, that he, at twelve o'clock at night, could
give all tl►e particulars of what had occurred irt
the day in a hasty letter. It was not, however,
till a full explanation had been received, that con-
viction was produced on the minds of Ministers,
which every thing that had since transpired had.
served but to strengthen and confirm. ,The deci-
sion they had come to did not, however, close the
question.c The Courts of Law were open to it,
and there the fullest investigation might take
place. The papers now produced were not stated
to contain all the information that might be ob-
tained, but these it had been thought would give
the House some general idea of what the pro-
ceedings had. really been.

Lard T,,INIPLE traS of op;nion, that a spirit was
abroad vibielt most be repressed, or the country
would be in clinger. He thought the present was
an occasion which made it necessary for every
:Wernher of that House to exert himself in de-
fence of the Constitution. Unless the Govern-
ment of the Country +h ere supported on a ques-
tion like this, he should be-tmvrilling 10 answer
for the consequetlee; and with this impression on
his mind, he felt it to be his duty to support the
Address.

Mr. BearNET having had more opportunities of
learning what bad actually taken place than many
Gentlemen,' rose to correct some' of the state-
ments which the Honourable Member for Dover
had made, as he had been convinced by evidence
given on oath before the Coroner's Inquest, that
great and cruel excesses had been committed.
The Hon. Member for Dover had spoken of the
multitude assembled at Manchester on the 16th
August, as being assembled for i►urposes of plan-
der. He detested some of the principles which
they met to advocate, but be bad no ri,;ht to be-
lieve them other than honest. He then describ-
ed varions owrages said to have taken place at
Manchester, most of which have already apncared
before the public. It was said that but 26 per-
sons had been taken to tl►e Infirmary. He had
see,' a list of 58, and many who had not been
carried to the Infirmary bad been severely maim-
ed. He believed he might say that eight lives had
been lost, and that he spoke within compass when
he said that from three hundred to four hundred
had liaan wouroled. That exaggeration had gone
abroad, he di►) not deny. This could not bat be
admitted by those who hail read the libellous and
disgusting articles which had issued from the press.
—(Hear, hear, from both sides of the House.)—
If any thing could take place more calculated
than all the rest to make moderate men violent
and irascible, it was the furious declama-
tions which had been sent forth by the press.—
(Hear, hear, hear !) Such front his owl) experi-
ence be could say was the effect which they had
produced. He then descanted on the manner in
which the populace had been attacked on the
16 h of August, and proceeded to argue that the
manner in which the Reformers had entered Man-
chester, in what was called military art ay, did not
make the meeting illegal. It, however, the Ma-
gistrates were of a different opinion, he should
like to know why they did not stop the parties on
their way, and prevent the meeting ? He main-
tained that the Riot Act was not read till after the
.attack on the people had commenced. The letter
of Mr. Hay did not prove that the Riot Act had
been read. lie (Mr. Bennet) did not say that it
had not been read at all, but he believed, that it
was not read till after tl►e charge had been Made.
He was of opinion, that no proof had been ad-
duced that the Yeomanry were attacked before
they attacked the people. Ile disapproved of the
employment of that description of force on such
an occasion, and imputed much of the mischief to
their want of temper. He defended the Union
Schools in that part of the country. He had ex-
amined the primers used in them, and thought Ito
books could be provided for them that were better
calculated to teach children their duty to God and
man. The blasphemous publications said to be
listad in some of them he could not fin', and on
this point he thought the Hon. Gentleman who
had mentioned it must be misinformed. In no
part of the country had he known greater regard
to be manifested lot religion than in the County
Palatine of Lancaster. He thought nothing mote
rival to the interests of the coutriy Than that se-
paration of the rich ftot:t the poor, which all the
measures of the present Gove:ument weut to et.
feet. There was a genaral feeling in the country
that Reform in that House was necessary. lit
this feeling he participated. He would nt►t give
the sanction of Isis name to all .the will sch to s
afloat in the countt y but he WAS o' ofroio, , :eat
men could nut be governed in 1819 Hi they had
been in 1719, and that it would he wise in that
House to reform itself. He disclaimed all wild
notions of Radical Reform anti Universal Suf-
frage, which, if serioualyenlertaithd and attempt.

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