The Sun.
London, England, 1821-04-14 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. Sergeant ONSLOW brought in a Bill to amend the
several Acts relative to tile admission of Attorneys and Solici-
tors.—The Learned Sergeant also brought in a Bill to regu-
late the acceptances of Bills of Exchange.--The bills were se-
verally read a first time, ordered to be read a 2d time on Mon-
day next, and to be printed:

CORN AVERAGES.
Mr. BERNARD presented a Petition from the Freeholders
of the King's County, Ireland, on the subject of the corn aver-
itges. The Hon. Gent. said, the Petitioners did not want any
new law, but wished the House to prevent the regulations which
had already been adopted from being evaded. They were con-
vinced that many frauds were now practised, which had a con-
siderable effect on the price of corn. They prayed also that
Irish Whiskey. should be allowed free ingress to this country—
a priVilege which they conceived the Irish distilleis were entit-
led to under the Act of Union ; and they pointed out the ne-
cessity of encouraging the agriculture of Ireland, which coun-
try could afford an ample supply of grain for the British market,
and thus keep within the empire those large sums which were
now paid to foreigners.—The Petition was referred to the Com-
mittee on Agriculture.

DISTILLATION.
Mr. WODEHOUSE moved for an account of the.total num-
ber of gallons of spirits distilled for .home consumption in Scot-
land, from the 10th of Nov. 1816 to the 10th of Nov. 1820.--
Also for an account of the total number of gallons of spirits
distilled from corn in Ireland, from.the sth of July, 1819, to
the 16th July, 1820. The Hon. Member moved 'for several
other accounts relative to the distillation of spirits ; all of which
were ordered.

Alderman WOOD moved for a copy of the warrant of arrest
of Charles Hill, on which he had been committed to Exeter
jail, together with all papers relating thereto.—Ordered.
WOOL TAX.
Mr. ABERCROMBY presented a Petition from the town
of Calne, in Wiltshire, against the wool tax.
NEWINGTON SELECT VESTRY BILL.
Mr. H. SUMNER moved that the Committee on the New.
in on Select Vestry Bill be allowed to make their Report on
or before the 15th of May.-.. Ordered. t
STAMP PROSECUTION S.
Mr. HUME moved for an account of4lttrosecutions by
order of the Commissioners of Stamps fo omitted in
Great Britain, London and 'Middlesex excepted,and the amount
of the penalties inflicted for the last three years. Ordered.
Mr. HUIIIE moved for all sums rated by the Commissioners
of sewers for the city and liberties of Westminster, and part of
the county of Middlesex, from the 21st of March, 1820, to the
21st of March, 1821, the amount collected; and how the same
was expended.—Ordered.
The Church Briefs Bill went through a Committee.—Report
on Monday.
The Jurors' Attendance Bill was read a second time.—To
be committed on Monday.
Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON presented a Petition from
Michael Cormack, Coroner of the County of Tipperary, against
the Irish Coroners' Bill.—Referred to the Committee on the
said Bill.

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.
Mr. LUSHINGTON brought in a Bill for the more expe-
ditious auditing of the Public Accounts.
Mr. G. H. BENNET wished to be informed why the order
of the House for the production of certain evidences taken be-
fore the Finance Committee, on the subject of auditing the
Public Accounts, had not been complied with. Some of the
evidence had been produced, but not the whole. One entire
day's evidence of Mr. Sergeant Praed, which, in the view he
(Mr. Bennet) took of the subject, was Most material, as it
went to explain points that otherwise could not be understood,
was omitted in the return. It appeared that: great pains were
taken to keep information from before the House, instead of
affording every facility for its productions This was the
system uniformly acted on at some of the public offices,
and, undoubtedly it ought to be noticed, since the House should
not suffer its orders to be disobeyed with impunity. He under.
stood that Mr. Sergeant Praed found very great difficulty in
auditing the Accounts of several Public Offices, the heads of
which were Members of Parliament.

Mr. LUSHINGTON, not being a Member of the Finance
Committee, could not state whether all the evidence taken be-
fore it had been printed or not. It was in the power of the
Hon. Member to obtain his object by renewing his motion, or
by referring to any portion of evidence which lie conceived to
have been omitted in the return. • ;
Mr. BERNAL desired to know what was the nature.of the
Bill introduced by the Hon. Member. It was absolutely im-
possible that the old system, with respect to the auditing of the
Colonial Accounts (so we understood), could be continued.
Mr. LUSHINGTON said, the object of the present Bill
was to amend two Bills which he had formerly introduced. The
latter part referred to the Colonial Department, and made pro-
vision for the expeditious audit of the accounts connected
with it.

Mr. ABERCROMBY.—On looking to the evidence now
laid before the House, it was quite clear that previous evidence
had been taken, which was not produced. It was extraordi-
nary that the evidence of Mr. Serjeant Praed, who was at the
head of the Audit Office, a gentleman than whom there was
not a more zealous or effective public servant, was not forth-
coming. The subject was extremely important, because there
was no way by which an efficient economy could be so speedily
secured as by a quick and faithful audit of the public accounts.
Mr. LUSHINGTON.—I am not a member of the Finance
Committee ; therefore I cannot give any information of the de-
fect complained of. It must, I think, originate in mistake.
Mr. ABERCROMBY knew the Hon. Gentleman was not
a member of the Committee, and that he could be in no way
connected with the production or non-production of the evi-
dence. But, as he brought in a bill which referred to this sub-
ject, he (Mr. Abercromby) assumed that the Hon: Gentleman
must have made himself master of all the evidence which was
before the house relative to the audit of Cue. public accounts ;
and more especially of the testimony given before the Commit-
tee of Finance.

Sir H. PARNELL understood that the Bill now introduced
was meant to amend the law as it stood, relative to the audit
of public accounts. No alteration had been made in the law
since 1810, when the report of a Committee which investigated
the subject pointed out the defects which existed, and the mode
by which they might be remedied. An early and effectual
audit was of the utmost importance. Scarcely any thing like
a regular account was laid before Parliament. They were all
subject to after examination, and could not be looked upon as
final and conclusive. He was anxious that this defect should
be corrected.

Mr. BENINV:T read two extracts from the evidence that had
been produced, to prove that the return to the order was in-
complete.
➢lr. LUSIIINGTON said, it was quite clear that all the

Mr. J. BBNE TT presented a Petition from the Free-
holders, Householders, and other Inhabitants of the City of
Salisbury and its vicinity, praying for a mitigation of the
criminal law. The Hon. Member said no Petition had been
presented on this subject that was drawn up with greater pro-
priety, greater feeling, or that was likely to produce a greater
effect than that to " which he then called the attention of the
House.
The petition was laid on the table, and ordered to be printed.
The Irish Lunatic Asylums Bill and the Irish General ses-
sions Bill went 'severally through a Committee.—Report on
Monday.
The grilled Stamps Bill went through a Committee, in which
it received some verbal amendments, on the suggestion of Mr.
LUSHINGTON.—Report received, and to be taken into further
consideration on Wednesday next, and the Bill, as amended, to
be printed.
ASSESSED TAXES.
Sir M. W. RiDLEY was anxious to know whether the Hon.
Gent. (Mr. Lushington). intended shortly to bring in a Bill, of
which notice had been given, for the composition of Assessed
Taxes. It would, he was afraid, be put off from day to day,
until the latter end of the Session, when it would be huryied
through the House with as many blunders and errors as ap-
peared in the last Bill.—(Hear, hear !)
Mr. LUSHINGTON would not admit that the. other Bill
was full of faults and blunders, notwithstanding the assertion
of the Hon. Baronet. With regard to the , promised Bill, it
would be introduced before the holidays.—Wear, heat !)
The report of the Irish Judicial Offices Bill Was agreed to.
Third reading on Monday next.
FOREIGN WITNESSES.
Dr. LUSHINGTON brought in a Bill to facilitate the exa-
mination of witnesses in foreign parts.—Read a first, and or-
dered to be read a second time on Tuesday, the Bth of May.
Mr. LUSHINGTON brought in a Bill for removing certain
doubts relative to the revenue of Scotland.—Read a first time.
• Mr. S. RICE moved for an account of the gross sum granted
for the relief of commercial distress in Ireland, and the applica-
tion thereof.—Ordered.
BANK CASH PAYMENTS BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the third reading of the Bank of England Cash
Payments Bill. •
Mr. ELLICE wished to draw the attention of
the Right Hon. Gentleman to one provision
which appeared to have escaped his observation

- - ,
but which a great number of persons who were

very much interested in the effects of this Bill
considered of great importance. By the law as
it now stood, the Bank was not compelled to give.
small notes in exchange for large ones. There
was no compulsory act by which the Bank was
obliged to make such an exchange. Now,. as
some inconvenience might arise to the .public,
in consequence of the alteration proposed by
this Bill, and as Country Banks might be placed
in a certain degree of difficulty, if they could pot
procure small notes to meet any casual run that
might be made on them, under peculiar circum-
stances, he thought a clause might be added,
as rider to the Bill, compelling the Bank to give
in exchange for their larger notes, either legal
gold coin of the realm, or Bank of England one-
pound-notes. lie had no time, previously to the
third reading of the Bill, to communicate with
the Right Hon. Gentlerm,on the subject. But
he thought the RighOlon. Gentleman would con-
cur with him in. the propriety of adopting this
suggestion.- .
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
see the necessity of adding such a clause to the
Bill. There would, he was sure, be uo objection
at the Bank- to exchange these large notes. for
current gold coin of the realm or for one-pound
notes. Had the Hon. Member heard. the state-
ment made by an lion. Director of the Bank
(Mr. Pearse,) on the preceding night, he would
have perceived that there was no ground for ap.
prehension. The Hon. Director had distinctly
stated that the Bank was prepared in any possi-
ble event, either to give small notes or the cur-
rent coin of the realm, in exchange for notes of
a large amount. If, however, any serious doubt
existed on the subject, he had no objection to
adopt the clause proposed ; but he apprehended
no doubt could be entertained ; for he believed,
as the law now stood, the Bank were bound to
make the exchange to which the Hon. Member
had adverted.

Mr. ELLIce observed that if he understood
the Right Hon. Gentleman, he stated that the
Bank were now bound by the law to exchange
large for small notes or the current coin of the
realm. If this were so, then certainly the clause
he proposed to add as a rider to the Dill ►►as
wholly unnecessary. He was not acquainted
with the subject ; but he hoped the Right,Hon.
Gentleman had fully informed himself on it before
he made this statement, in order that all doubt
should be removed, awl, that no inconvenience
should, at a future period,..result from a reliance
on what he now alleged; He did not wish to
press the clause against the consent of the Right
lion. Gentleman ; but, if be withdrew it., it; was
on a distinct understanding that the Bank were
now compelled by law, to give either 1/. notes„,
or current coin of the realm, in exchange for
large ones.

. The CHANCELLOa of the EXCIIEQUER said,.that
rather than b.e responsible for. any mistake, with
respect to the existing law, he would .agree to
the clause • btxt be understood that .the, Bank
were -hound to exchange current coin of .the
realm or their own one pound notes, for notesof,
large amount.

Mr. GRENFELL was of opinion that the state-
ment of the Rt. lion. Gept. was a very fairsuhject
of question. lie conceived that the Right Hon.
Gent. was not correct when he said that the law,
as it now stood.; or as it would stand when this
bill had passed, made.it obligatory on the Bank
to pay in small notes. It was very true that
such would be the effect of the Act of 1819; but
its provision would not come into operation till
1823 ; and till that time it was optional with the
Bank to pay in. this manner. Trierefore it af-
forded in relief to those who might want small
notes Ir co:n, at the present moment. If the
Itigh. Hon. Gentleman would consider for a mo-

ment, he must be sensible that the bill imposed
.
on the Bank no such obligation as 'he had stated,.
He therefore hoped thatthe Hors. Member woUld,
impress on the Right Hon. Gentleman'the'rlete4;
sity of adding the clause. as a rider to the
Mr.SCATtLETT said, before the late bill- paSied,
the Bank were precluded. from paying in CAA at
all ; a new discretion would be given to therAY
the present bill; but there was no law thit tte
knew of,. which rendered it imperative on them-tO
pay in small notes.
Mr. LITTLETON was quite confident that If the
clause now proposed were not enacted, great
mischief would, be the consequence. His atttin'-'
tion had been called to the subject by several
country bankers; and he could assure the House
that it was one on which they felt and expressed
much anxiety. It would give them great sati-
faction, and inspire them with great confidence,
if the clause proposed were added to the bill. -
Alderman IInvoATE and the CUANCELIOR of
the EXCHEQUER said each a few worth..
Mr. BANICES Was of opinion that "very consi
derable alarm must naturally be produced by the
circumstance of withdrawing the one-pound notes
from circulation. If a run should take place
Upon the country banks, it was difficult to' Say
what degree of inconvenience might result. He
was himself persuaded that the effect of anygene-
ral alarm at a diminution of the circulating medium
Would be to create a tenfold increase of the pre-
valent distress. Another objection which he_ was
desirous of pressing on the House, was one that
related to the operation of the Bill under particular
circumstances. This operation might be mate-
rially affected by what he did not see any means
of preventing, viz., by what had happened be-
fore—a pretty general export, now legalized, of
the current coin. The public, by long custoin,
had become so fanhiliarized to the use of small
notes, that a preference was given to them, as
more convenient, and less exposed 'to robbery
and plunder. Gold, he conceived, would answer
the purposes of circulation better as a token than
as a representative of value, and he likewise
thought it a great error not to place a seignorsge
upon it. He trusted, however, that the 'House
would adopt some means to secure the powei.of
retaining our metallic circulation, if we were to
haVe One in the country. '
Mr. 11. G. BRNNETT said he should prefer' a'
very great degree of public inconvenience to the
.numerous and dreadful evils which attended the
:circulation of one-pound notes. He hailed with
satisfaction the announcement of that new system
which. the Bank was about to adopt as one.of the
greatest benefits that could be conferred on the
Country. The existing practice appeared to him
in no other light than as a bounty on the com-
iniSsion of crime ; and lie Must regard the whole
,subject as second to none whatever in importance.
:Every Gentleman who Would take the trouble to
;go through the list of prosecutions foi the forgery
.of Bank-notes, would see the alarming increase
in the number of offences, generated by a depa-tore
.fram the sound principles of our ancient currenty,.
Not only had great evils been produced; but he
.apprehended that a foundation. had, been laid: for
,their continuance. He had drawn up a commative statement of offences- tried and ptthished
during 14 years previous to 1797, when the :ous-
pension of cash payments took place,'and:the
same term of years which had 'immediately fol-
lowed. The inference from this statement was,'
that the act of 1797 had given birth tti.a._new
crime to which a punishment was annexed infe-
rior in severity to that of murder only,; and,
notwithstanding this, that the number of offences
had been tripled throughout 'the country gene-
rally, and" in London had increased sevenfo'. d.—
[The Hon. Gentleman here 'stated various ac-
counts specifying the number of convictions and
executions at different periods.] The loss sus-
tained fell chiefly on the smaller shopkeepers ;
and it appeared that from the.year 1812 to 1818
there, were presented to the. Bank 154,541:f0rged
notes, of which upwards 0f.124,000 were for open
pound, and above 18,000. fOr two. pounds.. All
this information went to establish one point, ehich
was,,Jhat the severity of punishment bad not
served. to correct or preient the crime. From
the year 1805 to 1818, thesMomber persons
convicted of forgery was-501, of iritOtn.2o7
been executed, being a ' far greater propOrtion
than had suffered capital punishment for, any
other offence except murder. • N'ever'theless,' as
he bad before stated, the crime was tripled in the
country, and had increased sevenfold' in'Londou.
These circumstances were sufficient to deter any
Government from again embarking' in so dan-
gerous a career, a career which had proved
.be-
neficial to no parties except the Bank 'itself,
whose,proprietors, and he mentioned it not ..itsthe
way !of reproach, had been enabled by it to. di.
.vide25,000,0001. amongst themselves. .
Mr. -CRIPPS expressed his opinion that the
wants of the community could not be adequately.
supplied by a cash circulation.. If any, alarm
should arise, and a run upon the Bauks‘.take
place in consequence, the gold would be. irnme-
diately exported. He could not agree, hoiever,
with the suggestion, that it would be more ad-
vantageous to circulate the gold in the shape of
tokens rather than as coin. With regard to the
increased number of forgeries, it was to be attri-
buted partly to the increase of population, and
partly to the general substitution of paper for
coin.. Ile believed that a reference to late
Assizes would show, that offences of every, other
kind had also multiplied.
Mr. PEARcE observed that there seemed to be
but one opinion with regard to the propriety of
Tossing this Bill, whiCh was indeed to, carry into
effect a. former vote. He really did 'not see any
'reason for the alarm that was represented to have

'taken possession of the Country Ballks. The
Bak of England had "alwaYs been sollcitous-to
consult the interest and: convenience ofthe Liu*
tic,- and to afford all the accommodation in their
porter. In confirination of this, he aught allude
to the respectable authority of the late Mr.llor- •
iler in 1810.—(lIere the lion. Director read an
extract from the bullion report.)—The Bank, it
was there stated, had, in the judgment of the
Committee, exercised a very great degree of for-
bearance and discretion in not. 'Converting to their
own profit the means placed at their disposal,
and had fully justified the confidence reposed in
them by the public.—(Hear !)—lle was not
a: re that any-thing had subsequently occurred,
which ought to change this opinion of their Con-
duct.--('The remainder of the lion. Gentleman's
observations were utterly inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. GRENPELL explained.
Mr.MoNcx. stated that the Bank of England
had, in the- year 1817, not less than 30,000,000/.
in circulation. This single fact, he thonght;
,af-
foided a' satisfactory measure of their forbear-1
anoe. For his own part he looked upon the Bank
as alone, responsible for all the misfortunes with
-which the country had' been afflicted since, the
fatal monient when they entered into a sort of
partnership with Government. The evil, he be-
lieved,-. ould ultimately fall upon the Bank-
hut -it was undeniable that.itsexcessive
isklo-had led to t depreciation of more than 25
per- cent. in the value of nioney. In his ()Pinion
the Ricardo system, as it was called, was nothing
else than a fraud and cheat upon the country—a
mere trick, and his main objection to t was, that
instead, of leading, as it professed, to the resitinp-
tion of cash payments, it was likely to be a bar
to- that step.
Mr. CALCROT defended the, conduct of the
Bank of England. .The restriction was. a mea•
sure, sought for by that body. The House ought
to recollect that by the. Report of the Committee
of 1819, they-had been given to understand that
the Restriction Act in 1797 had been forced
upon the Bank.—(ll.ear D-2—lle also maintained
that it was not for the sake of the Bank, but for
the exigencies of the Government, and the accom-
modation of the country,that the circulation of
notes had been increased.

T. WILSON had been anticipated. in. most
of the remarks•he intended to make by the lion.
Gentleman who had just sat down. Besides the
reasons already• assigned for the Bank's increas-
ing -its issues from 9,000,0001. to 36,000,0001.
another was the disappearing of the coin and the
consequent demand of• the public for a larger
circulatiOn. He had no hesitation in affirming it
to be his opinion that the restriction was the
-wisest measure that could have been resorted to
under the circumstances of the time at which it
took place. .
Mr. HEYGATE observed • that great alarm was
felt by the' country banks lest they should want
small.notes;•and therefore he would ask if it was
intended to: withdraw all the one-pound notes
from cirCtilation; Whether the Bank was prepared
Nvitha sufficient quantity of gold to supply- the
place of their Own notes, and also a great portion
of the Oteletlnd noteS,pfthe country banks? It
was impossible to. peruse the.correspondence be-
tween theGovkrumentandthe tank,and not to.see
that the restriction was not-the act of the 'Bank :
it was: a.SCaterneasure ; and the blame of it ought
not -t6 'attach-to the Bank.

JNI ()NCI( explained.
Mr. -FtrcAnno should not have blamed the
Bank if they had only increased their issues to
an,amount sufficient to replace the gold coin that
had been removed from the country ; but they
had extended their issues far beyond what was
necessary for that purpose, and to this increase of
circulation he ascribed all the depreciation which
bad followed.
the Bill was then read a third time.

Mr. ELLICE brought up a clause for compell-
ing the Bank to, give in exchange for their.large
notes either 1/. notes, or legal coin of the realm.
This chi* hiving been reacta first and second
time, was added to the bill by way of rider,
and the bill so amended- was passed. The Bank‘l
cash payments (Ireland) Bill was also read a third
time and 'passed ; a similar clause to that brought
up by Mr. Ellice having been added to it? on the
motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
The CUPSCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER' MOVed
the .order 'of the.day for the House going into a
Cornmittee of Supply.
Mr, Gonnbzi begged to call the.attention of
te House to' of order of the 24th February,
by which the Treasury directed an increase
or salary to the commissioners of customs, excise,
and- stamps. A motion .was brought forifatd, by
4n Ifon).,Friend of his (Mr. Gordon's) to prevent
that increase -from being granted ; -but Ministers,
by the :powerful argument' of a large
,majority,
proved the- necessity for the augmentation. He
did not-- know whether a. - substantive motion
tife: hest mode'tif blitaining,thp 'reduc-
tion of these salaries, to*what they had been be-
fore this increase was granted • but he could
Ministers. themselves should hate the
n.erit of proposing that reduction.
'Sir C. 146:41.1: !Anted that "the Board' of Inquiry
had made no recommendatiOn for the fe-
diiction of the salaries of these-commissioners,
under the impression. that that question, 'ag'well
as a, reduction.of salaries in all the other depart-
ments of the: public. service, was under the con-
sideration of government. ,
Mr. T. WILSON thought the country' was under
great obligations, to this Board of Inquiry- for its
effortsoind,that the great increase-Of duty 'dos a
very good reason for not, reducing the salaries of
the commissioners.
Mr: 'HUMS had been informed that the Trea-
sury had sent letters' .to the heads of all the de-
partments, -desiring them. to report on the practi-
cability of reducing the salaries of the officers in
-their respective establishments ; and he wished
to know froin the Right Hon. Gentleman if this
was the case.

Sir C. LONG could only say that he had him-
self received a letter to the effect stated by the
lion. Gentleman, and that the subject certainly
was under the consideration of Government.—
(Hear !)
After a few wOrds—frorg Sir 11. PAaNpf.4. awl
Sir C. LONG, the House went into a Committee.

Col. Divirs wished to know if it was the in-
tentitili of goVertnnent to -keep nli the- present
SCaff,Establishment in the islands of Jersey and
Guernsey. From the information he had recelV-
ed he inferred that no steps had been taken to
reduce one of the two -Major-Generals on the
Stntf.there, though the'Noble-Lord'had said oda
former occasion that there was to be only one
Major-General kept on the Staff.
Lord PALNEitS.rox said, that if the lion... Ge-
ntleman took the trouble of looking, he would find
that one of these Major-Generals stood on the
reduced list for June, 1821.
Mr. GORDON. observed, that in Jersey-there
were two Staff Officers „and only one private.