The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-11 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, _FRIDA I MORNING. JULY 11, 1845

the Government would be enabled to prepare a more satisfac-
tory and comprehensive measure, which would be brought for-
ward next session, and as the present Bill had not been re-
ceived favourably by the body whom it was intended most to
benefit, he trusted the House would allow the matter to be
postponed.
Mr. IN AWN asked the House to read the reports of 1841
and 1t:344, to see the unjust way in which seamen were
treated, and he would only put it to the Right Ho-
nourable Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government,
whether, after these reports, it was not absolutely necessary
that some measure should be carried into effect to remove these
grievances.
After a few words from Mr. CURTEIS the Bill was
postponed.
The Speaker then left the chair, and Mr. Greene having
taken his place, the House went into Committee on

along the proposed line furnished sufficient grounds for the Bill to
be brought before the House. If the Scottish Midland Railway were
not constructed, he was of opinion that the east coast line would
not afford sufficient accommodation to the pubic. In the valley of
Strathmore a considerable quantity of cattle were fattened, which
were principally sent to London and to the southwestern parts of
Scotland for sale. Grain and potatoes were alio produced in the
valley. The weavers chiefly cultivated the soil. The proposed
line would give an impulse to the manufactures of the district,
and he believed that the inhabitants and proprietors of land there
were decidedly in favour of it.
The Marquis of Breadalbane was the next witnesse called, and
he corroborated, in every particular, the evidence which had been
given by Lord Wharncliffe.

Mr. Buchanan, merchant, residing at Stanley, spoke generally as
to the traffic from that place, and stated that the coals which were
obtained from Newcastle could be procured at a much cheaper rate
than at present if the railway were constructed.
Mr. Jamieson, the provost of Montrose, gave similar evidence as
regards Montrose.

Mr. Adams, of Blairgowrie, spoke as to the facilities which the
railway would afford for the conveyance of the yarn and manufac-
tuted goods to and from Blairgowrie, Glasgow. and Dundee.
The Committee then adjourned till eleven o'clock to-morrow.

WEST LONDON RAILWAY AND
EXTENSTON.

The Select Committee appointed by the House of Lords to as-
certain the merits of this scheme as.embled for the first titre this
morning, in No. 2 Committee-room, attached to the House. The
Committee consisted of Lord Brougham (Chairman), the Earl of
Scarborough, Lord Sondes, Lord Gage, and Lord Hawarden.

Mr. TALBOT, Q.C., stated the case for the promoters. The ob
ect of the Bill was to authorize the leasing of the West London
Railway to the London and Birmingham Company, and to empower
that company to construct a branch or extension from the present
terminus at the Kensington Canal Basin to the river Thames, at a
point near to Cremorne House, with a view of extending the traffic
on the London and Birmingham and Great Western Railways.
Mr. Bidder and Mr. Robert Stephenson proved that there no
engineering difficulties on the line. It would be 1 mile 52 chains
in length, and would cost 60,0001.
Mr. Mills, the superintendent of the goods traffic on the London
and Birmingham Railway, proved that the present want of access
to that Aut. trom Clinden-town kt•pt a good deal of traffic away
from the line. At present the traffic amounted to 165,000 tons
annually, and of that 40,000 tons went to the banks of the Thames.
Mr. Seymour Clarke, the superintendent of the goods traffic on
the Great Western Railway, gave similar testimony as regard. d
that line.
This closed the case for the promoters.

Mr. M. CHAMBERS then addressed the Committee on behalf
of Lord Kensington, two-thirds of whose property would be
destroyed by the proposed railway. He contended that the
Kensington Canal ass amply sufficient and expeditious for the
traffic to the river ; but, even if it were not sufficiently expeditious,
the canal might be easily converted into a railway, without in.
flicting injury on the property or rights of private individuals.

Evidence having been adduced to substantiate the statement of
the Learned Counsel,
Mr. TALBOT replied, and the room was afterwards cledrcd.
The Committee having deliberated for a few minutes, strangers
were re-admitted, when
The CIIAIRMAN announced that the Committee had come to the
resolution to postpone their decision till Monday, and in the mean.
time they recommended parties to come to terms.

HOUSE OF COMMONS..
GROUP A.
TENTERDEN AND RYE LINE.

The Chairman, this morning, took his seat at the usual hour, and
the Committee proceeded to the consideration of the above line.
The first witness called by Mr. HILDVARD (on the part of the
promoters of the line) was
Mr. Hicks, a merchant at Rye, who spoke to the difficulty of
communication between that place and other parts of the cot nty,
and also with London. The required communication would be
fully supplied by the proposed renterden and Rye line, but the
Ashford and Hastings lines, proposed by the South Eastern, and the
Brighton Company's would give no accommodation to the people
of Rye. Corn, beans, and peas were exported from Rye to Glou-
cester, Liverpool, and other places. He raised a large quantity of
corn himself, and would send a quarter of what he raised to Lon-
don, if there were an available railway communication.

On cross-examination by Mr. D. HILL, on the part of the Ash.
ford and Flutings (Brighton) line, the witness st.ted that Folke.
stone had a great advantage over Rye, in the railways, and that
the inequality would be increased by any such railway as the pro
posed Ashford and Hastings line.

Mr. Southerton, owner of fishing.smacks at Rye, spoke to the
advantages to the Rye Harbour fishery which would ensue from
the making of the proposed line. It was very difficult to get a
market for all the fish caught. He himself had sometimes been
obliged to sell as many as seven waggon.loads of fish for manure.
A waggonload was equal to 125 bushels. All that he had sold for
manure might be sent to Landon and sod as food, if there were a
railway communication, He was frequently obliged to throw fish
back into the sea, having no market for it. The fishery would
support a much greater number of men than it does at present, if
there were a line from Rye to London. The Ashford and Hast-
ings line would give no accommodation to the ft:4ler)%

Mr. Wilsted stated that his father and himself had been super-
intendents of Rye Harbour for forty years up to the present time,
and gave evidence as to the improvement which would be made in
the harbour at Rye by this. and the injury which would be dune
by either of the other lines.

Mr. Meadows, a farmer and surveyor of roads at Bennington,
spoke to the improvement of the roads of that place which would
be caused by the cheapening of material, resulting front the
proposed line, if the Bill were passed. The roads were ma J 1
"sea beach," that is, shingle obtained from the sea.shore. This
"beach" was obtained at Rye Harbour, and would be carried on
the proposed line. It might then be conveyed much cheaper by
the railroad than it could by the present mode of conveyance.
Mr. Thompson stated that he had been employed by Captai❑
Moorsom to take notes of the traffic which might be expected on
such a line as the proposed Tente,.den and Rye. He had
stationed four men at the following places—one at Playden, one at
Rolvington, one at Bird's Isle, and one at Tentenden.
Bird's Isle was about a mile north of Tenterden.
He had repeatedly visited them to see what they were
doing, and to copy the notes which they had taken. The witness
spoke at some length to the precautions against error, and against
noting down traffic such as would not be available, which had been
taken by him, and by the persons he employed.
Cross-examined by Mr D. HiLL—The four persons he employed
were named Small, Goble, Fin, and Snow. Goble, who was sta
tioned at Rolvington, had been master of the union workhouse;
Fin, who was stationed at Tenterden, svzs a tailor. He
might count nine of his own trade to a man, but would not be
likely to count nine men for one tailor.—(A laugh.) Snow,
was a gardener's labourer, and had been stationed at Bird's Isle, and
Small was stationed at Playden. There was another man at a fifth
station, but as the traffic at that place might be conveyed by the
Ashford and Hastings branch line, it had beets struck out of the
tables on the passing of that Bill
Mr. Aviary, a coal merchant at Tenterden, spoke to the ad-
vantage to the coal trade which would be produced by the proposed
line. Coal would be rendered much cheaper by the cheaper
carriage, and the result would be that a much greater quantity
would be consumed

Mr. Hatch stated that from 3,400 to 3,500 tons of lime were
imported annually to Tenterden for manure. This line would
greatly facilitate the carriage of lime, and would therefore make it
much cheaper. The present expense of carriage of lime from the
Kent Chalk.hills to Tenterden was 15s. per waggon load, a waggon
load being equal to two tons.
Mr. Barnes, a land surveyor, said that the value of the land
h uro
called "l Staving passed was 18,2881. 1 le. He knew Mr
ttaving Den," and which was the worst land
oStntouhng'hsfield le
h ae lwieh
ei.cc He thought the part of this land which
would be left by the railway would be more valuable than the
whole field was at present. He thought Major Curtiss's land
would be much improved by the railway.
Mr. Curtiss (a relative of Major Curtiss, a petitioner against the
line) was then called, and gave evidence of the advantages de.
rivable from this line. He thought Major Curtiss was mistaken
in opposing this line, which would greatly increase the value of his
property.
Mr. HILDVA RD then said that his evidence was now concluded.
and there being no evidence to be produced on the other side, the
Learned Counsel proceeded to addrtes the Committee in favour of
the proposed line, atid dwelt at great length on the evidence as to
the truths which had been given by the various witnesses, and
which has been published at length, from time to time as it oc-
curred, in the columns of The Sun.
Mr. D. HILL addressed the Committee on the part of the
Brighton Railway Company, and in reply to Mr. Hildyard, he
pointed out shortly what he considered the advantages of the
Ashford and Hastings ai br ch, and the disadvantages of the
Tenterden and Rye line. The object of the Learned Counsel's
speech was principally to show that the greater length of the
Tenterden and Rye line was not sufficient to account for the excess
of the estimates of the expense of that line over those of the Ash.
ford and Hastings branch line. The expense of the former we-
estimated at 500,0001 That of the latter would be 140,0001. There
was only a difference of 11 mites between them, the difference ofex.
pense being 360,1,00/.
Mr. CLattssoN then addressed the Committee at some length on
the part of Major Curtiss, after which the Consinitte adjourned at
Five o'Clock.

GROUP NN.
EPPING. RAILWAY.
At the sitting of the Committee it was announced that Lord
Lincoln, on the part of the Woods and Forests, had given his con-
sent to the line passing through the Crown lands, subject to certain
clauses.

For the purpose of allowing time for the completion of these
arrangements, the Committee adjourned until tomorrow.
We believe it is the intention of the promoters not to carry the
line beyond Old Ford, where it will form a junction with the Eastern
Counties line.

cutout'a.
IMPORTANT DECISION.
YORIC LINES.

The Committee met at half.past twelve, and retired to consider
the point which was raised yesterday respecting the evidence to
be adduced by Mr. Cockburn

After a considerable time, Lord Coultrunsv said that the Com-
mittee had Instructed him to state that they had come to a resolu-
tion that the Direct Northern Company were at liberty to offer such
rebutting evidence as would show any errors In the London
and York sections, which might, under the standing orders,
prevent it from being constructed. Secondly, that all
those parties who desired to invalidate the sections must
give notice to-morrow morning of the points which they intended
to contest, and that no evidence would be received of which notice
was not given to-morrow morning; and thirdly, that the Com-
mittee would proceed to take evidence against the sections imme-
diately after the conclusion of the case of the Farringdon-street
station.

Mr. AUSTIN said that he bad only one object with Mr. Cock-
burn, and that though the parties were not otherwise conjoined,
yet they had a common object to defeat the London and York line,
and he should, therefore, only offer evidence supplementary to that
produced by Mr. Cochburn.
The Committee then proceeded to the evidenee of land value;
but, from the position of the witnesses and the peculiarity of the
room, It was utterly impossible to hear the early portion of the
statements.

The tlrst witnesses spoke to the value of the land on the line. The
result was that Messrs. Padley and Moore who had valued the
land from the one hundred and twenty second mile-stone to the
River Trent, stated that the total worth of the twelve miles seven
furlongs, which they had surveyed, was 17,949/.
Mr. ATKINSON valued the land from the River Trent to the
Don, a distance of 18 miles, 1 furlong, and 1 chain, and he found
_ _

the whole of the work to be 28,3421.
Mr. John Oliver took it from the River Don, to and including
Brayton, and his estimate was 24,2434 Distance, 11 miles, 7 fur.

longs, 8 chains.
Mr. George Alderson valued it from Brayton to York, and his
total was 24,136/.:for 12 miles, 4 furlongs, 3 chains. The aggregate
amount was 94,6721. Total distance, 55 miles, 4 furlongs, and 2
chains.

Mr. Padley produced a model showing the level of the River
Witham, and the fail of the Delft drain into it, the object being to
show how the line would pass over the country when the water
was out, the criterion being the timid which occurred in 1828.
Mr. Sergeant WRANGIUM objected to the model on the ground
that part of it was constructed on the horizontal principle and
other parts on the vertical principle.
On Mr. WEBSTER'S reexamination, Mr. Padley stated that ,his
was conceived to be the best plan to construct a model, as it showed
hrnh the surface and the slope of the banks of the river and the
drain.

Air. Nancell was recalled to aptak to the traffic.t3bles, and
.tated that he had taken one quarttr of the trMlic bt tween Lincoln
and Torquay he due to the railway between Lincoln and Gains-
borough. He had taken one.third of the traffic between Gains-
borough and Thorne, and ane.tbtrd between Thorneand auto.

The Goole traffic by canal he had omitted altogether. He had
taken one.sixth of the Crowle traffic for the railway. In the
Selby district he had divided the traffic, and the total
a►nount was 67,2041 He bad tested these calculations by those
of the London and York line, and taking all the calculations te_
gether he found the whole of the expense of the line from Lincoln
to York to be 978,3121., and the net returns would be 67,204/.,
including coal with the other goods.
The cruss-examination of Mr. Sergeant Wrangham occupied a
considerable time, and he succeeded in very much shaking the
evidence of Mr. Mancell. . .

Mr. Webster's re examination, however, tended to restore the
confidence which should be placed on this evidence, although no
new facts were elicited. _ _

The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow,

PARLIAMENTARY DI V ISIONS.
(Front the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.)
WEDNESDAY, JULY 9.
UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Order for Second Reading read; Motion made, and Question pro-
posed, " That the Bill be now read a second time :"—Amendment
proposed, to leave out the word " now," and at the end of the Ques-
tion to add the words " upon this day six months:"—Question put,
" That the word now' stand part of the Question." The Rouse
divided _ _ _

_.____. •
MINORITY-AYES, 108.
Aglionby, 11. A. Ellice, Rt. Hon. E. 0 de, S. C.
Millie, 11. J. Ellice, Edward Ord, William
Bailie, '-t alter Escort, Bickham Oswald, James
llannerman, A. Esmonde, Sir Thos. Peehell, Captain
Baring, F. T. Etwall, Ralph Philips G. It.
Barnard, E. G. Ferguson, Sir R. A. Plumridgc, Captain
Bellew, It. M. Forster, Matthew Pulstbrd, Robert
Berkeley, Captain Gibson, T. M. Ravr don, Col.
Bernal, Ralph Gill, Thomas Redington, T. N.
Blake, M. J. Grey, Sir George Ross, I). R.
liorthwick, Peter Grosvenor, Lo,'d R. Russell, Lord J.
Bouverie, E. I'. Hallyburton, Lord Scott,•Robert
Bright, John liastie, Archibald Seymour, Lord
Brotherton, Joseph Hawes, B. Sheil, R. L.
Itrowne, W. Ilindley, Charles Shelburne, Earl
Buller, C. Horsman. Edward Smith, Vernon
Buller, Edward Howard, Henry Smythe, George
Chapman, B. Howick, Viscount Somerville, Sir W.
Christie, W. D. Hume, Joseph Stansfield, \V. R. C.
Clay, Sir W. liumptiery, Alderman Stewart, P. M.
lolebrooke Sir T. Jervis, John Stuart. Lord J.
Cowper, W. F. Labott ;here, H. 'faltered, M. W.
Craig, W. G. Langston, J. H. Towileley, John
Crawford, W. S. Lemon, Sir C. Troubridge, Sir E.
Curteis, 11. B. Loch, James Villiers, Charles
Dalmeny, Lord Macaulay, T. B. Vivian, J. li.
• alrymple, Captain M`Taggart, Sir J. Wakley, Thomas
Denison, John E. Mangles, R. D. Wall, C. B.
Dennistoun, J. Marjoribanks, S Warburton, H.

D'Eyncourt, C. T. Marshall, William Ward, H. G,

Duncan, Viscount Mitcalfe, Watson, W. 11.
Duncan, George Mitchell, T. . Wawn, J. T.
Duncombe, Thomas Morris, David Williams, William
Dundas, Admiral Morison, General Yorke, H. R.
Dundas, Frederick Morrison, James TELLERS.
Dundas, David O'Brien, J. Hill. Lord M.
Ebrington, Viscount O'Connell, M. J. Tufnell, Henry

MAJORITY-NOES, 116.
♦'Court, Captain Forman, T. S. Lygon, General
Acton, Colonel Fox, S. L. Mackenzie, T.

Alford, Viscount Fremantle, Sir T. Mackenzie, W. F.
Arkwright, George Fuller, A. E. Diecan
Ashley, Lord Gaskell, J. M. Meyncll, Captain
Austen, Colonel Gladstone, Captain Mildmay, H. St. Joh]
Bailey, Joseph Gordon, Captain Neville, Ralph
Baillie, Colonel Goulburn, 11. Newdegate, C. N.
Baird, W. Graham, Sir J. Nicholl, John
Barkly, 11. Granby, Manptis Northland, Viscount
Baring, W. B. Gretnall, Peter Packe, C. W.
Bentinck, Lord G. Greene, Thomas Palmer, George -
Bernard, Viscount Grinaston, Viscount Patten, J. W.
Blackburne, J. I. Grogan, Edward Peel, Sir Robert
Bowles, Admiral Haltord, Sir-11. Pringle, A.
Brisco, M. Hamilton, C. J. B. Rashlelgh, W.
Broadley, henry Hamilton, George A. Repton, G. W. J.
Bruce, Lord E. Ilan ;.ion, W. J. Ito Heston, Colonel
Bruges, W. H. L. Hamilton, Lord C. Sanderson, Richard
Buck, W. L. Hampden, Renn Seymour, Sir H.

Buckley, Edmund Harcourt, G. G. Shaw, Frederick
liurgell, Sir C. Harris, Captain Smith, T. ft. C.

. _
Campbell, Sir Hugh Henley, J. W. Somerset, Lord G.
Cardwell, Edward Herbert, Sidney Spooner, lticliard
Carew, W. H. P. Hogg, J. W Sutton, 11. AI.
. lerk, Sir G. 11,1 mes, W. A'Court Taylor, Edward
Clive, It H. Hope, Sir John Tsiment, J. E.
Cockburn, Sir G. Hope, Charles Trench, Sir F. W.
Corry, Henry Hope, G. W. Trollope, Sir J.
limner, Colonel Hughes, W. B. Trotter, John
Darby, George Hussey, Thomas Varian, J. Ennis
Denison, E. 13. Inglis, Sir It H. Waddineton, H. S.
Douglas, Sir H. Jertnyn, Earl Wil!osley, Lord C.
Douglas, Sir C. Jocelyn, Viscou,t, Wortley, James S.
Duckworth, Sir J. Johnstone, Sir J. Wortley, .John S.
r:inlyn, Viscount Knightley, Sir C. Wynn, C. W. W.
Estcourt, I'. G. It. Lennox, Lord A.
Farnham, E. B. Lincoln, Earl TELLERS.
Fitzroy, Henry a.,ekhart, William Toun- John