The Sun.
London, England, 1844-08-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly after Twelve.
The Bishop of Down and Connor and Dromore's
Estate Bill was read a third time and passed.
Lord Lovat's Estate Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The Duke of Hamilton's Estate Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed.
Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a petition from 500
tradesmen of Bristol, against the Insolvent Debtors Bill ;
also a petition from certain solicitors in London, to the
same effect.
Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from tradesmen of
Finsbury, Marylebone, and Southwark, to the same
effect. The petitioners prayed that the Bill might, at
least, be postponed until next session.
Mr. AGLIONBY presented a petition from Finsbury
to the same effect. The petitioners prayed that if any
law were passed, greater powers should be given as
against goods.
NEW WRIT FOR DUDLEY.
On the motion of Mr. J. YOUNG, a new writ was
ordered to be issued for the election of a Member for
Dudley, in the room of T. Hawkes, Esq., who had
accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.
The report ou the Charitable Donations and Bequests
(Ireland) Salaries and Expenses Bill was brought up, as
was also the report on the Marriages (Ireland) Bill,
which were ordered to be retici a third time to-morrow, at
Twelve o'clock.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS BILL.
.On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL proceeded to explain
its principal provisions. The provisions branched into
three different heads, each of which required a
separate and distinct consideration. The first part
of the Bill related to the amendment of the
law of cessio bonorum ; the second, and, undoubtedly,
the most important part, proposed to abolish
imprisonment for debt in executions under 201. ;
and the remaining part of the Bill introduced
some amendments into the machinery of the Court
of Bankruptcy. It was his conscientious conviction that
the measure would be found extremely beneficial. It
had been stated, as an objection to the measure, that it
would injure the humbler classes of society by diminish-
ing the facility of credit, but he was rather inclined to
doubt whether that was a good objection. For although
it might, in some cases, be of advantage to people in
humble circumstances to get credit, it was more generally
attended by consequences quite the reverse of advan-
tageous.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman then proceeded to read several passages from the
evidence taken before a Committee of the House on
the subject, tending to Show that the abolition
of imprisonment for debt would not have the effect of
abolishing bona fide credit, but only of making trades-
men more careful. Mr. Dampier, who presided over the
Stannaries Court, in Cornwall, and had jurisdiction over
one hundred thousand persons in cases of small debts,
but who had no power of ordering the imprisonment of
debtors, gave it as his opinion that the abolition of im-
prisonment for debt would only have the effect of making
tradesmen more careful. Any possible injury which
might arise from this Bill, was not to be weighed in the
balance against the evils inflicted by the present system.
Had the House read the evidence on this subject ?
(Hear, hear.) They read of six or seven persons con-
fined in iv dungeon, with nothing but straw to lie
upon. When this Bill was objected to on the
ground of mercy to the debtor, he asked them to
consider the evils attending the system of imprisonment.
—(hear, hear.) What benefit was it to the creditor to
be able to incarcerate the body of his miserable debtor ?
Was the debtor any more likely to pay what he owed ?
Certainly not ; for the class of persons affected by the
Bill had not the means of doing so. In the arguments
against this Bill he had not been able to discover
any which were entitled to consideration, except
that to which he had adverted ; and after
what he had stated, he trusted the measure would be
allowed to go into Committee.
Mr. M. PHILIPS did not mean to stand up as an
advocate of imprisonment for debt, hut complained that
he had not had sufficient time to communicate with his
constituents on the subject. He also thought they would
disturb tho operations of credit if they passed such a
measure as this, without having explained it more fully
to the public at large. There ought to be more caution
in legislating on such a subject, and he thought he was
not asking too much when he required a little delay.
Mr. S. WORTLEY felt himself in some degree in the
same position as the Hon. Member for Manchester.
There had not been sufficient time to consider all the
consequences of this measure. He had that morning re-
ceived a petition from Sheffield, stating that the peti
tioners were creditors to no less an amount than 40,0002,
which would be affected by this Bill. Undoubtedly the
Bill was sanctioned by the highest legal authorities
of the other House. But Hon. Members had not before
them the evidence on which the Bill had been founded,
and he thought when a Bill came down to them at the
very end of July, they ought not to be called on to pass
it at the beginning of August in the absence of those
legal Members, who were alone able to judge of the
effect of its intricate and technical language. He could
not but express the strongest opinion that they ought not
precipitately to pass such a measure.
Mr. AGLIONBY also objected to passing such a
measure so late, in the session, and without discussion.
He concurred with the two Hon. Members who had
preceded him. Such hasty legislation was most inconve-
nient and injurious. It ought to have been brought in
earlier in the session, and at any other time than a
morning, sitting. He protested against its being sup-
posed that those who opposed the Bill wished to keep
unfortunate debtors in prison. He objected to the 36th
clause. He thought if all power over the person was
relinguished, it would operate unfavourably to
the working classes, by diminishing the disposition
to give ,credit. Many descriptions of workmen being
thrown out of work during portions of the year were
enabled to obtain credit during that time on the security
of their wages in the period in which they are employed.
But the inclination to give this credit would be
di,ninished ; nor in its present shape did the Bill give
any increcsed power over the goods. This would tend
to diminish the business of the Courts of Requests, as
persons would not apply to them when they could only
give judgment against the goods which in many
cases would be of no avail. On the whole, balancing
the evils of both systems, he thought the abolition of the
power over the person would act injuriously on the
working classes. He should not oppose the Bill on ge-
neral principle, but he must object to the time at which
it was brought in. and to some of its details.
Mr. SPOONER fully agreed with all that had fallen
from the Hon. and Learned Member. He admitted that
the learned Solicitor-General had made an able and
powerful appeal to their feelings—one which it was
difficult to resist. But they must legislate from judg-
ment, and not from impulse. He thought the Bill would
injure the working classes, by restricting the amount of
credit they now obtained. Again, why make the meas
why not abolish it in all cases? Why
sure a partial one? If imprisonment for debt was wrong
in principle,
should they take from the small shopkeeper a remedy
which they still continued to the rich merchant and
manufacturer? •Feeling that great practical evils would
be the result of this measure, he must press on the Go-
vernment the necessity of some delay.
Sir J. GRAHAM, alluding to what had been said
about the absence of Members of the legal profession,
said if the principle was laid down that the House was
only to legislate when they were present, it must give
up legislating at all for four months out of the six. The
early part of the session was always occupied by the
great annual struggle fur power, and practical legislation
did not commence till after Whitsuntide, and soon after
that came the summer circuit. Both in the
spring and summer circuits they were deprived
of the presence of the legal Members, who
were only present during the great annual contest he
had alluded to. In their absence the House must use
its judgment and common sense, and do without common
law as well as it could.—(Hear, hear.) He traced the
progress of the measure through the Upper House, and
read the opinions of the Commissioners who had reported
on the subject, to show that public attention had been
sufficiently called to the question. Nor was experience
wanted in the matter. In Scotland arrest for debt was
unknown, and they had the recorded opinion of several
commissioners of local courts that a power over the
goods for debt was quite sufficient, reserving the power
of imprisoning for fraud, or for any other misdemeanour.
The power of issuing writs' of capias bad never been
possessed by the old county courts nor by local courts
until the middle of the last century, when in a local
Act for a small debt court in the county
of Midddlesex, the power of imprisonment was given
that had been gradually extended by several local Acts,
but it had never been authorised by any general statute.
One of the Commissioners had stated it as his opinion
that this power of imprisonment ought to be
abolished. Lie was willing to admit that for the
benefit and advantage of the labouring classes credit
was indispensable, but he thought the system of
credit, and the recovery of small debts in Scotland was
preferable to that in England. The Hon. Member for
Birmingham had quoted that town as an example, and
had said that for the sake of the working classes them-
of imprisonment for
should now fsoerl v essm
atlhl edyebtosu. g hNt
Now, he
tohe w.a
sabolish d
why
hrihsoer
who
shad ma l rl
doepbotssebdyt ot
hceocn t(i)unnu ety the p o
Courtsw eßr
pro-
pose the abolition of imprisonment for small debts. He
would tell the House the reason a hich induced him to
consider that this power ought not to be continued for
even six weeks longer, and pirmingham would not be for
gotten.

kLzTT •PEAKING.)

THE BRAZILB.—Her Majesty's packet Express,
Lieut. Herrick, arrived at Falmouth at midnight on
Wednesday; from Rio de Janeiro, June 13; Bahia,
22 ; and Pernambuco, 28. The packet next from hence
had not made her appearance at Rio. Passengers :
—The Count. George (Austrian Charge d'Affaires),
Miss Champness, Mr. W. H. Houghton, Mr. Crop,
Mr. Laye; Mr. Walter (Consul at Bahia). On
freight, about 6,0001. in gold and diamonds. There is
no. news. The Princess Royal (transport) arrived
from England on the 3d of June, with stores for the
squadron. The Growler was to leave for the coast of
Africa on the 13th of June.

His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, ac-
companied by Colonel Jones, visited Brighton yesterday.
His Royal Highness remained at the York Hotel, and, at his
departure, was pleased to express his approbation for his en •
tertainment to the spirited yroprietor, Mr. Pegg.
THE WEATHER IN SCOTLAND.—Within the last
few days we have had frequent and copious showers of rain,
accompanied with great heat—the thermometer ranging from
70 to 80 degrees. The crops, as might be expected, continue
to make rapid progress.,—Glasgow akelitutima4•July 31. •