The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-16 00:00:00

the question. At the same time he felt that his Noble Friend,
the late Lord-Lieutenant, had increased the confidence of Ire-
land by the course that he had pursued, and in that course he
was fully vindicated. For himself, he was mast anxious to
render every justice to the terms of the motion that had
been proposed by the Noble Marquis, but, in doing so, he was
most anxious to see that justice was done on each side.
Could it be said that Ireland was in the same state that it for-
merly had been ?—( Hear, hear.) Certainly not. It had hi-
therto, under the late Administration, been in a state of per-
fect tranquillity and peace. What was its condition now ? Far,
far, different.—( Heir, hear.) He concurred with the mea-
sures that had been adopted cn the part of the Governmtint,_
( Hear, hear.) Ile complained not of the forces that had been
employed in Ireland ; but while he did so he was compelled to
state that by the proceedings that had been taken, some,
if not a little injary, had been effected in Ireland
The Government had taken a great step, but if they were
disposed to act upon the terms of coucitiation, they, in his
opinion, ought to have adopted a different course. Had they
by the principles which they had pursued succeeded in govern-
ing Ireland effectually, or in keeping her pet)* quiet? Cer-
tainly not.—( Hear, hear.) And what was the inference to be
drawn ? Why, that the Government—the present existing Go-
vernment—had nut the confidence of the rich people; they had
not the confidence of the Irish Catholics. it might be true
that they wished to govern Ireland on the principles of justice,
but to do so they must adopt a very different course to that
which they had pursued.—( Hear, hear.) The fact was, that
the present .Ministers had not the confidence of the people of
Ireland, and the evidence of the last ten years had proved
that assertion. What had been done with respect to the Muni-
cipal Bill? Had not the proceedings upon that measure given
the greatest dissatisfaction to the people of Ireland ? Was not
thatdissatisfac' ion one that ought to haws been expressed? By
that Bill they had given to England, and to Scotland, certain
civil rights, but they had considered that Ireland was unworthy
of such a concession.—( Hear, hear.) In fact, they had given
to Ireland what he must call a bar to civil rights, and in the
renewal of certain laws they had forgotten Ireland altogether.
Then, with respe..t to education, what had been the course that
had been pursued towards Ireland ? One that he must confess
was of little credit to the Government. He did not wish to
undervalue the votes that have been given by Hon. Members,
in the other House of Parliament, but he thought, notwith-
standing all they had attempted to do, they had proved them-
selves greatly backward in the cause of the education of the
people of Ireland. Then, with respect to the proseeutions that
had taken place in Ireland, was it to be said, for one moment,
that these prosecutions were conducted in a manner becoming
i-
ga gn
nr e
—a tt
IG, e opvreirens Gm ehnat
in lan
gtrl
ematt rmeoassencruet
iboene been he elCdautip'o tl s cicroerl
—their principles had been attacked, and the political franc-
chise and the rights of the people had been considered as no-
thing.—( Hear.) Much had been said against Mr. O'Con-
nell—much had been also asserted about the offers of prefer-
ment that had been made to him by the late Government. It
was true that they had offered him the Mastership of the Rolls.
He (Lord Monteagle) regretted sincerely that that offer had
not been accepted by Mr. O'Connell. In discussing this
question, he should wish it to be understood distinctly that he
was not in the most remote manner defending the agitation in
that country. It had been his lot, during the administration
of Earl de Grey, to meet Mr. O'Connell face to face and
answer him upon the subject of the repeal of the legisla-
tive union, and upon that occasion he did not shrink from the
inquiry, nor would he do so now ; but still at the same time he
thought it would be most unjust if he, availing himself of this
privileges in that place as a Peer, were to attack a
person who had no opportunity or power of reply.
He believed it was pretty well understood that he
owed but little gratitude to Mr. O'Connell—( Hear,
hear, and laughter)—but still that should not in the slightest
degree influence him, and his only motive in stating what he
had just now done, was to show that he was actuated by no
private bias. Upon the occasion of the appointment of three
gentlemen of the highest honour and character—namely, Mr.
Sheil, Mr. Wyse, and Mr. More O'Ferrall—Mr. 111(Neil and
the party with whom he was identified, made use of the most
insulting observations with respect to the religious persuasion
of those gentlemen. When such language was used by a
great political party, it in some degree justified the violent ex-
pression from the other party. The great question at issue was,
whether the Irish people had or had not confidence in the pre-
sent Government.? and if they had not, to seek out the cause.
He should state that he attached no culpability to the Govern-
ment for the institution of the State trials ; beeau e he thought
that when a great body of persons openly avowed their inten-
tion by particular means, whether legal or other, to effect a
political purpose, and in carrying that out assumed a system of
military organisation, it was the bounden duty of the Govern•
ment to interfere. With respect to the proclamation which
had been issued before the Clontarf meeting, he should say
the assertion that the Government had kept this proclamation
back for any sinister motive, or for the purpose of putting
down the meeting by force, was erroneous; but still he thought
it very unfortunate that a proclamation to put down
a meeting appointed for Sunday had been only issued
at three o'clock on the Saturday, the more particularly as
the people were coming from various and distant parts of the
country. Lord de Grey only arrived in Iroleind on Friday, and
the proclamation wad issued on Saturday. He (Lords Mont-
eagle) thought this was a lack of decision on the part of the
members composing her Majesty's Government, and he would
ask was this the manner in which such a measure should have
been adopted ? Why, he should ask, had not the Government,
through the medium of some of its organs aruongst the press,
caused an intimation to be given to the people of the intention
to suppress this meeting at an earlier period—in fact at the
moment it was first determined upon ? Again, he thought it
most unfortunate for the Government, that the sheet of the
jury list, which had been so frequently referred to, and caused so
much excitement, had been lost. He thought it was most
essential for the interests and peace of Ireland, that there
should be an amalgamation of all parties in that country. With
respect to the Landlord and Tenant Commission, he was fully
aware of the many difficulties by which it was surrounded;
but he was, at the same time, convinced that the Commis-
sioners was bound to turn their attention to the
social condition of the people of Ireland ; and he
thought that no subject was of more importance than that of
affording instruction to the people in agricultural science, in-
asmuch as a highly industrious class of persons were unable to
make available the resources of the country. He also thought
it most advisable that a State provision should be afforded to
the Roman Catholic clergy; and also that the College of May-
neoth should be placed upon a higher footing, for by these
means, and these alone,they would insure the admission of higher
class persons to the ministry of that Church.
The Duke of WELLINGTON then rose, but gave way to
The Earl of RIPON, who said, that after the speeches made
on the other side of the House, hardly any explanation was
necessary of the conduct of he Government. The Noble Lord
who had just sat down was evidently satisfied both with the
past conduct of the Government, and with the measures they
intended to propose. His (the Earl of Ripon's) Noble Friend
in introducing this motion remarked, that it was not at all sur-
prising that the people of Ireland should not place confidence
in her Majesty s Ministers. The ground upon which he
made this remark was, that while there were three Scotehmen
in the Cabinet, he could not discover a single Irishman with
the exception of his Noble Friend near him (the Duke of
Wellington) ! It was rather singular that when Lord Grey's
Government was in power, the Noble Marquis
did not discover that such a Government could not
possess
the confidence of the Irish people, for there
was no Irishman in that Cabinet.—( Hear, hear.) The
appointment of a noble relative of his (Lord Ripon) had been
alluded to, as one not calculated to give satisfaction to the
people of Ireland. There was one question upon which his
noble relative (Lord de Grey) had ever entertained the
strongest opinion, in which he had differed from his political
friends, and differed from his family, and that was the Catholic
question. He (Earl Ripon) said that was Prima facia
proof of his Noble relative being calculated to conciliate the
Irish people. His Noble Friend, in supporting the Catholic
claims, had not popularity in view, for the question at that
time was not a popular one in that House. No, he
acted upon a principle of justice, and gave those claims
his hearty support. He therefore thought that her
Majesty's Government had properly chosen him as
a person likely to administer the government of Ireland in an
honest and fair spirit. Then with respect to his Noble Friend
the Chief Secretary, it was well known what his feelings had
been. There was no division of opinion between the Lord
Lieutenant and the Chief Secretary. Their opinions were the
AaraN
aßsitanesi
rntoei
mndlnnagsseot
ehni
nvret
det Relative
impassiblehoeenteredwhicha(ai
aldbnEe trtharjatl
fdbhao everenar
Jackson
bsepi
to ne:hondeninenrtc.
norhis office
cajoled w ietiht either by
rimy
would undertake
Ripon)matle that was less
s
e
o
e
appointments toavui renlO satisfaction
i Le: ntef tf
ot oliyoft khhlaai rndd.
tihbtsfni oraelaoai Ireland.teeLensnrmnanl eedsn. said
at
but
m ou:
leatrtaftt determinationnri hh eaYnoNi
uncorrupted, Therembeaojiment cpb:l douypwl eerwto,
strong political opinions. He had often expressed those opinions
in Parliament. He (Earl Ripon) did not say whether
those opinions were right or wrong, he disagreed with many of
neid,tedth, aatndMpre.rfßecatrloyninnLemfrronyptiliwasina
wasand
a man whose justice on the bench nobody had ever ventured to
impugn. Was it to be said that because a man had entertained
strong political opinions that, therefore, he ought not to be
appointed to a seat on the judicial bench? What then was the
objection made to Mr. Sergeant Jaakson ? Wit that he was
a great opponent to the national education sciseme. Were
they come to such a pass that a man's opinions were
to be a bar to his advancement; in his profession;?
Why this was nothing but proscription if each a principle were
to obtain. Mr. Sergeant Jackson had, it appeared, made an
excellent judge, and yet exception was taken to his appotnt-
ment. This exception, too, was taken by ishose who supported
that party who had offered the Chief Judgeship to one who
had lately been placed in an unenviableposition. Then with
respect to the elevation of Mr. Holt Waring, to which se
much objection had been offered. Their Lordships would re-
collect the time when Parliament came to strong resolutions on
the subject of the Orange Societies. The moment the wishes
of Parliament were expressed that those institutions should
be dissolved there was not a man to be found
in Ireland more earnest, or more zealous, amongst
those over whom they exercised influence than Mr. Holt
Waring was with those with whom he possessed any influence
to induce them to abandon at once all such institutions. He
_ _

(the Earl of Ripon) thought that this was guise sufficient to
wipe away all recollection of his connection with such institu-
tions. He thought he had said sufficient for the refutation of
the charge which had been brought against his noble relative
of maladministration of his office. He would turn to the sub-
ject to which the Noble Marquis had referred at length, namely,
the late trials in Ireland. He thought that with respect to
this matter, the speech of his Noble Friend, who
had spoken last, was a complete acquittal of the
Government. He had said that the Government
had done right in not acting before they had done, and in
taking steps when they did. Here, then, were two of the
charges against the Government got rid of. But his Noble
Friend complained of the number of days that elapsed b.iween
the time the Government became aware of the proclamation
that issued from the Corn Exchange, with respect to the re-
peal cavalry, and the issuing the proclamation. His Noble
Friend, to show what he considered was delay on the part of
the Government, referred to the course Mr. Canning adopted
respecting an expedition to Portugal. It was per-
fectly true, as the Noble Lord had stated, that Mr. Can-
ning had received intelligence on Friday, and on
the Tuesday following the troops were ready to embark.
The Noble Lord forgot that all these arrangements were made
in London, to be acted upon in London. But the case of the
present Government was different, for the determination come
difference
in In
.odo had
in the
tto be
ime. acltteld upon i p
mdbeenn
said,
Dublin, which
the
other
the
a side,
that the Attorney-General for Ireland was hardly known be-
fore the late trials.
The Marquis of NORMAN BY—I beg your pardon, that
Cline horn your Noble Colleague.
The Earl of RIPON—Yes, but that will not do. It was
said the Attorney-General was not known out of the law-courts
in Ireland.
Lord CAMPBELL—Your Noble Colleague said that he
had not heard of his name.

The Earl of RIPON said it was not to be a reproach to the
Government that they did not know all at once what were the
legal qualifications of all the gentlemen of the Irish bar. The
idea was absurd. Why, Mr. Whiteside, one of the counsel for
the traversers, in whom the traversers must have placed the
most implicit confidence, inasmuch as that gentleman was a
Conservative in politics ; he, in his speech to the jury, stated
that the speech of the Attorney-General was characterised by
great fairness and talent.
Lord CAMPBELL—That is a lawyer's Compliment.
The Earl of RIPON—The Noble and Learned Lord says
that is a lawyer's compliment.
The LORD CHANCELLOR—Yes, they often compliment
upon talent, but not upon fairness.—(Laughter. )