The Sun.
London, England, 1810-12-28 00:00:00

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of Orange at first refused to avail hiinself of the of-
fer made to him, until he had collected all theadvice
which he could collect, and then he' did consent.
-Even then, hot ever; treat iionbts had arisen upon
.the subject;. and in the beast of one•of the-greatest
lawyers of toe cay, my Lord Nottingham, existed
some doubts as to the legality of assembling
tnent ; but those doubts, upon .mature 'discussion
-and d.. liberation in the House, were over-ruled, and
tters were writterr to the-Prince of Orange ; bUt.
he must contend; that .before that step was
-adopted, great hesitation arose in the r Con en ti Oil
What was the course of -"proceeding on that occa-
sion ? Why, -they came to: the.-deterrnination first,
that
.the King had;abdicated the Throne; and the.
ineXt consideration was,. and it was obvidna.to the
fir St. constitu, lona' lavocerS of • the siiite, that the
:bext in succession shohl,l -be placed on the Throne.
They therefore declared the :Throne vacant ; not
'Only vacant, but had been abdicated by the
Icing ; they alsO'dtclared that. the next in succes-
Sion should be restored, amid restored he was ac&rd-
ingly. With this view of the proceedings and situ-
ation of the Thioi •e
in 1688 y were, the House pre-
pared to say that the ca-e applied now ? It
,was
true that thii; CQUilir• was religiously and indeed ,
bigotedly fond of the. precedent of 1.688 : but it
'would not becoine the House, in the excess of that
faniness, to apply that precedent' mischievously.
The Great Seal was not then in-exi4tetice..--t here was
rho Sovereign by • wbom that instrument could be
used, or n whose name it could be created-•—the
thing was impossible, because the King did not then
ex'st. The Case was nor so• now ; his Majesty's
political capacity was as , ntire now as at any time of
..his lite. The cases, there fibre, to which the Noble
liaroeiliad-alluded, were not at all anal,gouS„ and
those who supported thr' Address, were for establish-
ing tried itegency without • the consent of the Royal
Authority. Such 411 e.tArlishnient might be neces-
sary in an cxiteme case, but it would Well become ,
House consider, whether the necessity was
now tdf the tit tit e -createl.• The only cases
which could I.n the least bear were those of Henry
the Vitt)", in lc ;HT- übstitution of 'Proteetor was
necelhoi meth
being. an i,dant)
without ii.ed interposition Of 'l.le ROyal Authortq.
In a C it.llle death ot Henry V. the
successor betOgihen only 9 moOttis old, the DiAes'
of BAtord acid Gloucester Were rained for the Re.•
gency ; but the DO, e of 13,-dtk.nd being out of the,
Icsugdoln, Pruteet rs, ip d-vobtiupon,the Duke
of Gloucester. the young 'King,: in Commission,
baying staied his own incapacity «i goverti. The
text instance was in the 3vid of the same King ;
the state Of the royal mind was such, that it was
then deetned ei;ieclient to 'lssue a :Go'rirrnission 'to
declare the reasons wite-h-induced the inc .basely
tie Kte,;, ti d the ,Duke of York was .ippo,.ted
Pieted:Or or 'tan:. Rea,in. If such was. the course of
proceedings then, which were thoes;thou...l) distant„
tlo solo. measure: bore analo4y, it WdS s,'ea that,
the Royal Anthonyi -was necessary for prow ding for
the uotorturotte .sit nation into .v bid) toe King had '
fallen. Win respect to the Houses ot Parliament,
they could not, as isad been -asserted, be denominated
the two Stares of toe hey were, intact, the
I-louses of Parliament, regularly coavened by the'
liiog's autluirir w hen, Nord-- Lords, therefore,
t;-talks d,t t,s hp. ech of his iNijesty being the Speech
of ;\l,nis r., Joey forget thai having, by their as-
sent, ad_iprtd it, it of c, •urse was the speech which
it purported to ue.—To be sure while Under • discus-
sion it migto ne so called ; but when once, adopted,,
it became, by their vote, to all Intent• arid purposes
the King's s oech, and by lime recor,,t ot, Parliament
was so. What was tole . 6ation of 11). country now ?
it could not be denied that toe caLi sty was great
211 d grievous, a•id the didiulties which arose with
respect to the appOiwinent of .4-.11,-igeot equally so;
but st would be as examitie the extent to
All(11C11 the race( dings would go. In the first plaCe
it was prnposd, issuer the resolution,„ that the
is og had op .tied his Parliament. Was there any
gi eat dithcluiy in that propo,i: toss ? That, then be-
tut, ibionited, Parliament ti.:en bein4, summoned by
King convened by Proclamation. What was
ineaor by being legaly, convened, was that it should
be opened by, .the King's sumnionii—that was le-
gaily done in the present case. Would any mot
say to the ~oriarary? The precedent w?rs complete
as to the opening of Pari:ainent. The oext ques-
lion w-ulu be, woether in providing for the de-
- Lciency in the Executive, is sh,,ald he presumed
that the Sovereign tithing it for granted that
the Palliament was regotarly opened) would
pia his negative spin the proceedings of the
other twbbratiches of the Legislature, by Bills, and
refuse his assent, ter it' must be prestitueci, his judg-
iiient Must he in the affittnative: As to ihe _ques-
tion .of lestriatung, he was disposed to think, that
his Dilajsty would, in the exorcise of his royal autho-
rity, be iticlitied to depart troirt the steps of his pre-
' decessors, or from the precedents even its• his.own
reigns It would. be found in 'the -preamble to the.
Regency Bill, that nut a condition -of the restric-
tions were obJe6ted• to, and therefore he could
not suppose that now any objeetiou- would be
started to that preamble, 'Which had in a sirnilar case
been assented to before. He could not See•that in
so doing, the House would neover-ruling the _Royal
Authority, lessening the dignity of the Crown, or
dimming its lustre. 'They were placed :in :this pre-
, dicameni, that 'the precedent of 688, 'was not-only
not -applicaUle, but-in its principles and views
diame-
tricall) opposite to the pr, sent case. In this view he
'could not stae ally thing shots of this : tnat by vot-
ing for the Address,- the House would pledge them-
selves to a vote which, in effect, would be a total
dereliction of duty to the King. He deprecated 'arty
of that acrimonious debate Willett. Was the conse-
quence of proceecings in 1788, and to which het
was a witness, The Only safe .and constitutional
mode of proceeding was br Bill, and convinced,

that,he should'inelely do, his duty," in voting fur the
:, .. proposition of Iris Nob.e Friend, he, cave it his
- -':livattv consent. . ..,
as It. H. the Duk'e of YORK rose, anti spoke
It
4 to Lie following erfeCt ::,--". 11.0%iy,v,er unwilling I
feel to troubie yuur Lordships, or- to encroach 'ui.ou
your' tune, I cannot but.consi4er-tue Present an -oc=
cation upon which I owe to tuyself lo_ state the
grounds which influence my conduct in the vote
'-- ' "filch I shall give this evening: .l have under the
:kesetit melancholy circumstances telt, as >I did 1.1n-
,--Y\- ' - those of the sallies painful nature which occurred
. ' ",:-.
-,, ~,ty-two years ago, that it would be weak and
, . .
~ . -mpg to shriuto from the public assertion of
-.i:

principles which T then entertained and supported,
and in the maintenance ofswhich I have been con-
firmed by subsequent consideration and experience;
nor am I, I can assure' your Lordships, gnided in
the line which lam induced-to . take, by the fear
of appearing inconsistent, for, if any consideration,
carrying conviction *to my 'mind of the fallacy of
former opinions, had producedi in the interval, a
change in my sentiments, I declare that I should
consider it as mean and unmanly to hesitate a mo-
ment in Candidly admitting such to be the case ;
but I continue deeply impressed with the opinions
I then held.of the mistaken principle, the dangerous
tendency, and the eventual mischief of the measures
which are now proposed, and I am led by every
feeling of duty and attriehthent 'to my beloved Fa-
ther, of the solicit ude.for the preservation .of the
rights of the Crown, and of regard for the Con-
stitution of these 'Realms, to deprecate the adoption
of a course which appears to we highly detrimen-
tal to objects so justly dear to us all,. No indisidual
Can feel more than I do,' my Lords, the critical si-
tuation in which' this, country is-placed, by a-cala-
mity which none .can more seriously deplore. Seri-
ous as the difficulties appeared upon the folmer -
occasion, they are 'equally increased upon the pre-
aeet, by 'the pressure of the dines, and by the ar•
duous; yet proud struggle, which this country is
stipporting,• not solely for its osvn .honour and in.
dependence, but for that of the only people on the
Continent, which scorns to submit to tyranny and
oppression. 'Ours is a hoice difficulties, iny
Lords, and imperious necessity alone can war rant
the steps-we are about to take. With these prin-
ciples, my Louis, I most cone;ientiously and cheer-
tuilv give my vole fir the adjournment, in the hone
Old 'Divine Providence Might still avert tie- mate-
fold evils of which" I - totesee the occurred, e, by re-
storing our beloVed Sovereign, to his attached and
atli:cied people, before any 'aeided medsur,-1 were
obliged to be taken ; and with the sAtrie principles,
my Lends, I do not scruple to say, that in my anxi-
ous wish to allow etery possible time for his Ma-
j,:sty's re-establishment, I should have readily voted
fora forsher adjournment, if such ead been proposed
by those who have been in the enjoyineet of his.
Majysty.s confidence, and to whom I give credit
tor a dispusit:on not to run too great a risk of incur-
ring any serious difficulty or embarrastrient to the
State, by postponlog to too distant a period the con-
sideration of measures which must, tinder the con-
tinuance of these melancholy circumstances, be-
come ultimately necessary. Uotortunately that pe-
riod is now arrked, and anxious as I should be to
see that necessity averted, eagerly and joyfully, as
repeat, I should hail ,he day when it ceased to ex-
ist, yet after -the evidence of his Majesty's Pllysi-
'clans, which lies upon your Lordships'. table, I am
tar front wishing to stieet ion by my vote any impedi-
ment to the general and incliseensable object. But,
'my Lords, 1 object to the mode and the principle
.upon which it is proposed to carry that. object into
erfed, as being, in my opinion, unconstitutional,
deingi,:itory to tee dignity of the Crown, and 'subs-
versive of those rights, which, if, they. are now
indirectly infringed in 'the person of the King's
substitute, ss ill no .longer be in the same degree
`secure nom &tett attack.' I deny the authority,
the validity of the principle, by which the two'
Estates 'of the Realm‘ can substitute a phantom
for the prescribed reality, .and can assume to
themselves a power of establishing an ad fur .which,
by the principles and the acknoWletVd ftirms of
the Constitution, the sanction of : the third, still
existing, although actually odortnant, is particu-
larly required ; and I therefore adhere to that
mode' whichsis not liable
,to the same 'objedion,
I Mean an address, submitting the resolutions, if'
such are considered to be necessary, which may
have passed, and which being accepted by the Re-
gent, will not be less binding upon them, or might
at any rate be made so by a'subsequent Act, when
the third branch of the Legisiature had beep re-
stored to activity. 'Having thus briefly stated to
your Lordships toy objections to the form of a Bill,
I must odd that I feel equal repugnance to any, re-
sti ietions which it may be proposed to impose upon
the exercise/of the power conferred on the Argent
during the continuance of the present ealamity, for
I do toot reckon an arrangement Ibr the care. of his
Majesty's person as a restrietion on the Regent. I
consider them not less dangerous in principle than
in precedent, and I conceive tnat these are not the
times wheu the Executive Power, •(titesdy sunjed
to difficulties from 'its temporary nature (ind tempo-
rary I trust in God it will prove), should be still fur-
ther embarrassed and weakened by restrielioos,
which are not less unbecoming than I our persuaded
they would prove unnecessaty furl trust. and bei.
liert, that the Prince of Wales, being intrusted
with the full exercise of that temporary authority,
will :fee, that if is consistent with his own honour.
and future interest, as.well as with every principle
of duty and attachment to. the King, to conduct
himself in such a manner a, to restore that authority
to his Father free from abuse, aisd unlettered by any.
Act which shall have been inconsistent with the prin-
ciples upon which shall have been hither exercised, or
emuarrassing to itiOP. the resumption and further ad-
Ministration. The merits of . the present question,
-upon which I have briefly, and, I, teat, sery imper••
fedly, delivered my sentiments, have been,. and
will be, so ably and fully discussed by others of your
Lordships, who are More competent to the task,
that it now only remains for me turther to declare,
which I do Bloat soleMnly, that in the linewhich
have taken, I am wholly uninfluenced by any other
consideration than a conscientious principle, origi-
nating from conviction in My 'own breast, thatemy
object has ever been, and ever will be, to support,
by every nleans in my power, the true interests of
my beloved Parent and Sovereign, and of his realms,
which I must ever consider as one, and to prove
that I never have suffeied, nor even can suffer, any
personal consideration, or any view of future pro-
' spe6t, to weaken those feelings of duty,and attaeh-
ment
,which are natural to every son, and which are
indelibly impressed on my mind by every sentiment
of the warmest gratitude and veneration lot his per-
son, as well as huMble adrifiration of those virtues
which have, marked his public conduct, net.
mute than they have adorned every act of his pri-
vate life."

Earl MO/RA congratulated the House upon the
speeches 01 the two Royal Dukes, which did honour
to their It yal Highnesses. He hailed with joy the
pledge which the two illystrious Persons had given
of their determination to support the great princi-

pies of the Monarchy, and to preserve them
.un-
touched, as the great right of thepeople, to be exe
ercised by the _Sovereign for the benefit of the
.
country at large. Twenty-two years ago he had
the honour of proposing an Address, sireilateto the
one now proposed by his Noble Friend, And he had
often occasion to review the motives which had
urged him to submit that proposition, and with
these motives he 'Was perfectly satisfied. The No-
ble Lord- opposite .had just read to the House a long
dissertation of precedents, which were wliody in-
applicable to the present case, with a view to the
best interests of the country. In what did the No-
ble Baron's speech consist ? Why, in uplisalding a
dodrine which the Constitution mast abhorred in
principle—a doctrine which, by a strong bar, it had
taken care to guard against, viz. the assumption of
that power which in either House must be taken as
a very deep infringement oftthe rights of the people.
Was it not an infringement upon the Constitution,
if either or both Houses of ,Parliament should pre-
sume to exercise the King's sentineht, ' Was the
Noble Baron aware of the extent p !' that as-.
sumption might go ?' Did he not see here was
no limitation to that principle, and that in effect it
might go to the total extinction of the best parts of
the M.onarchy—that if such excuses were to be to-
lerated, the Sovereign would thereby become in the
lands of certain • persons an obedient ins rurnent,
if they could secure to themselves a majority in
Parliament ? The State would then be au Oligar-
chy, and there would be lambing to protect the
people from the malver!ations of the Ministry.—
The,Noble Baron, in his speech;- had touched upon
the most material point to which his Noble Friend's
audiess pointed, viz. the right of Parliament to de-
cide upon questions of this nature. The a2judicie-
flue ef Parliament by address was secured by it.—
There was a great 'difference between the two modes
proposed, for by the Addres4, delay would be pre-
vetoed. The Noble Baron had stated that the-ex-
ercise of those powers which was vested in the -So-
vereign for the benefit of the people, ought not .to
he in tbe Regent. -It . was easy to see what species
of Government- the Ministers wished to create.—
What .was the fact ? - The Prince .of: Wales had
never• shewn any desire to take ehe Regency on
himselt ; lie had not made any communication upon
the subjece—had not in any way taken part in the-
business. The tiOuse well -knew that thesexigency
of the case aloen e\- made them recur to hilt,. He
would not suppose for one moment that there was
any man so weak or so wicked as to wish to bring
forward any , other person to fill the Crown—that
he could .not suppose. It was therefore a sltuation.
of political
.necessity, arising from a combination of
unfortunate circumstances in which the country was
'placed,' embarrassing in the extreme. In this situ-
ation the two Houses come forward, and they call
upon the Heir in succession to the Throne to take
upon himself the Executive office, to extricate the
elatlou from the dilemma which it stands through
the ill conduct of the Government.. With this de-
site seas coupled the desireeef restriction, limiting
the Prince in his official' capacity (supposing he
should consent to comply with the wishes of the
nation),- and holding him forth to that nois) as a-
tnan to be suspetted—not fit to be trusted. War
this the sort of conduct which the House ought to
adopt ? Was it just to deprive the Prince of the
grace of abstaining from the exercise of those
powers which, as the Pdonarth, he would be ee,i--
tled to ) Recollecting, too, that those po s ers
would be open for discussion at any future period,
was it just that the individual, whom' the country
wished to be called to the Government, should
be held forth as unfit to be entrusted ?-e--
There was no inconvenience of such magnitude
es for the Chief Magistrate to be incapable of ex-
ercising -that authority which ought to- be tested
in him, It had been said by the Noble Baron
that the Government was placed under great ditli
• culties. He (Lord M.) would riot admit it to be so,
there was a time when they might have existed, but.
the moment the-exigency was pioniunced then the
difficeity ceased, for the moment the Report of the
Physicians was laid before the House, that moment
it ceased. It had-been said on a former occasion by
a Noble and Learned Lord, " that the King never
-dies." In a valid and important sense that was irnee
because the Metiarchical syssem way of such a vieil
nature, that it must not pause for a moment. On
that principle-he
,mest_ vote for the-Address, 'becatise
it secured 'an able,,adjuJication of the case' by,Parlia-,
meta, it saves all that uonecessary&stress to the in-
dividual a hicth the other•tnede would provide, and
most essentially avoids giving to any 'persons (if such
, there were) the opportunity-of canvassing the prac-
ticability of going 'on without the iyrOnarchical
power. What would be the language Of the Jaco-
bins on the subjeat ? Why they, grounding them-
selves upon the speech of the Noble Secretary. of
State, would say, " We have his words for our be-
lietehat the Royal-Authority i 4 of no use; the Mi-
nister has gone on for six. weeks without a King."
What ground was there for net supposing that:those
very persons use it as an argument to further their
views, and say, ‘f We are disinterested judges; why
May not we carry 'on' the Government for six or
eight years in the same way ?" If the House lent
• themsefves.to Such Ministers, they would be the
first to suffer in the approaching disgrace' of the
'Country, but they. would 'riot seffer without en-
tailing •on themselves the execrations of the rest of
-Europe.

The Earl of BUCKINGLIAMSTIIRE gave his cordial
support to the Resolutions of the Noble Earl, con-
vinced that the best and most constitutional mode
(or supplying the deficiency was by Bill. The dis-
cussions of 1788 on the subject, were, in his opinion,
a sale guide tUr any man to discharge his duty now,
because no subject had been more properly decided.
Beiides this, he had another great authority, viz.
that of Mr. Pitt, who had carried a considerable
majotity-with him. The Noble Earl professed the
greatest respect for the Prince of Wales, hut he
thought that the King's interests should be placed
out of the reach or possibility of being affected. Tf_e
measure of 1788 was approved of by the King, and
he should presume that they were su now.
• The Duke of NORFOLK here rose to order, de-
daring that it Was indecorous to use the name of his
Majesty in the manner that the I‘ able Earl had
usvd it.

The Earl of BUtKINGLIAMSHILIE proceeded, and
contended that be wai justified in using the King's
name because it was recorded or, the Journals of
the Fiume, artd he had a right to refer to thoeJour.

pals. Under the situation in which 'Ministers .were
placed, they could not act othet wise. Sunosing that
it would ha% e been necessary to send feintorcements
to'PortUgal, Would aoy Minister have hes;tated to
send titem ? If the Noble Lotd (Grent'ile) lied
been •in power, would not he have 'acted so ? ott
thought be would; at all Innards, ILIVC CsOCtiyA It
his duty to - send the necessary" reinforcements, at
least he '(the Noble Lord) would hare st,ntthetn.
The Noble Earl 'contended, that Ministers having
aced from the eitigeticy of the 'public s',,rvice, were
.intitled, not only to inrtetnnity, but applanie. He
was 'unconnected with them, and in supporting
them did niereiy an act of dUty to them and hi 4
country. • ,

. ,
The Marquis of La e:esowNE hoped he 'should
never bear that the lute eets ul thy= reigeing e.,.t i
and" the interests of the Crown, Were capable of
being separated. Did tee Noble Earl think that
it was inimateri II to the line; esin of the King by •
whom his armies were sent alma ad or recieted, by
whom his treaties were itifriheed or iseokee ? The
Noble Earl slated, that ii woul.l 5e crirni. al .n ths in-
dividuals who for two months hid usurped the iklo-
naitary of the cduetry, thou d any eeergency a' is, , to
neg,ecr, at I heir own respoosibiliey, to use !hepowt r of
the Crown ?_.l3id the Noble is id forget diet Those
very peg seas had distinctly stated, that the power of
using the roeel authority had dtrolved ou th States
of the Realm ? Yer it seemed that theie very pereeis.e.
had deceived the States of the Realm, and had w
drawn from them the immediate exereceeot tea au-
thority, by coue-eatieg eiteuinstanc, s with an e, itient
intender) of protracting the existence Of their eevii
and the suspension of Menai-chief pewee Tie_lrelvas •
another very portant q estion which aroie oil of -
ahat before their Lordshies, and 111 A was with re-
spect to the-cust..dy of his Majesty's p,rsen. Coeld
any one say, that daring, the continuance of the.de.,
lays that occurred, there had beea.a. legal and cons
stitutional proviSion for the care 6( the personage in. ,
whom all Were so deeply interested The day ,
trusted would dome when a- retrospect, might be
deliberately taken of all the late transactions,
,and a
inquiry made into the truth of: a report prevalcete
a few days ago, that. those who.had assumed the.
care of his Majesty had, by-a wanton exere,Ee of ,
their authority; endangered the life of the \Royal_
Personage himself. He mentiohea this'aS a rumour
which he should be glad to hear Contradicted. With
respect to the prOceeding about to be instituted,
irregular as it must' necessarily be, their Lordships
ought to be gaided by two considerations ; first,
that in that irregularity the ‘. leak possible v:o.;
fence should be opposed to the analegies of the
Cop tit utiun ; and, secondly, that it
,shonld
directed so as to prove efficient in the supply
of the existing inefficiency. • As to the first
p6int, namely, the
,analogy, he would not e4B-
- the precedents so ably adduced by his Noble
Friend, but would content himself with referring
all Which their Lordships had heard turd read fur
truth of his assereien, that there was no, case
before the year 1788, in which the two Houses of
Parliament had usurped the use of the Great
Seal, without the intervention of the third -party,
who was alone entitled to the controul of ii. In the,
reigns of .Edward 11. of Richard 11. 'of Henry V.
and of Henry Vl.—times of the greatest disorder and
confusion—in the midst of all the attacks made on
the UreWn at those pertoci,, there remained so strong
on idea that the two Houses of Pat liaenetit had no
controul over th'e Gear Seal, as to skew that it was
immernorieliy ,siablislied hat the Great Seal was the
attribute 4;1 R. yalty, and that the authorhy over it
was peculiar to the Crown, and CQUtd not be assumed ,
by either House of Pailatruent. Let their lordships
consider di part of the Practice of the Crown 'itself.
fee Crown, during the recess of Parliament,' and
someianes in the case of any urgent necessity over. •
stepped the limits of its power. But' did it e..,r ets
tempt to give to such an aet the authority of an
of Parliament ? On the contrary, when Parlianwut
assembled, the Crown applied for the justification of
such an act, which justification was alway
on the necessity for it. The Noble Secretary ofSiate •
had conten.led, that the object of the Bili ‘ellidle, it
was intended to propesewis, to make that completeby
the Great Seal which at present could not be made so. -
This was impossible. It reminded him of an expedicnt
hit upon at a Westminster eledion, by a body of
men certainly not so enlightened as his Majesty's
Mintsters, he meant the Irish chairmen. !These.
people, finding themselves sometimes unpleasantly.,
situated with regard to the police officers,, applied
to one of the Committee at the eection, ter
know if there' would be any objection to their
getting their poles.' painted like the constables'
staves, conceiving that they would then, in any .
any quarrel, " have law on their-side." Thus the
Noble Lord appeared to think, that by the covering
which he proposed to the measure in agitation, -he -
should " have the law on his side." What Would
the Com Mission purport to do ? By the authority ,
of the two Houses of Parliament to open the.Parlia-
aunt; and to stand in the,place ofthe Crown.. Admit
such a prinCiple; and ,it might be applied in future to
every illegal at which a more encroachiegParliament
than the present might wish to perform. ,What was
the course recommended to be pursued ? In the first
place, to adopt a resolution, declaratory of the ineols
eiency.of his Majesty at present, to exercise the Royal
functions. In the second place, to adopt. a resolu-
tion, that it was the right and duty of the two
Houses of Parliament to. provide for the deficiency
thus Occasioned. What followed ? To abandoo
thetight, and to forego the duty ! To abandon the
right, by surrendering it to others ; to forego the
duty,' by leaving the Country without a Governor:
All this, too, at a time when the ,eveuts of a fort-
night, or of a week, might demand' to meet them,
the united Powers of the Constitution. With a full
celivictiun of the propriety of his Noble Friend';
amendment; be should certainly vote fur it ; Calce,
lated as it was to make the Constitution whole, and
to 'enlace it on the basis on winch alone it could
-stand with Security.

Lord GR EN VI td:E confessed his surprise that those
who were compelent to givie legal opinions on the
present important question had thought proper so
long to delay addressing their Lordships; He did
not pretend to supply the deficiency. On the con
trary, he telt considerable diffidence in speaking on
the present occasion,
,because he was Obliged to de‘
blare his hearty and complete conviction of the
soundness of the arguments by
,which the original
motion was supported; If, however; he had to add
to the expression of this OonVistion the duty of de•:

the conduct of those.with wlunn the motion
it would indeed be a .task to which his
1:01ble. pnw+ers most Ppr,,ve unequal. Wholly at a
should he be to otter a word, in exculpation of
`-eren, who, 'it was now proved, had come down to
'irliament, and used.such lAnguage as to, deceive their
Lordships, and induce them for a time to desert their
'tity,and turn their backs on ;heir Sovereign and.their
r•ohntry. 1-1-wever be might respect the Noble Lord.
lio had charatierised this protraction on the vnt of
..!inisters as meritorioui, it was impossible for him in
present state of Europe ai'd the world s 9 to con
:1` icier it. It lead been said, ,that to Great Britain
:lour, the world in general, and that continental
rr in particular, which bad beep, so long 'resisting
e ambition of Fume, looked tor' protection. It
was true, what could be un on .eniabie than

at ti-e delay of a week, or even or a day, in the es
elislnnetit of a reetilir governtueut in this coun-
m ght'.:be productive-.---lie would say, of the
.'a 'wine!! couhl be intii tcd on .the
h ieein rave.. If, therefore, he stipporteti the motion
1. .>vrore the ;House, he did it with a deep sense'of the
1' et invnality oft hose arrogant melt, t)y-As how (for the
,irst
_time since the days of Cioniwell) it had been
ri ,:tA that the iopt authority could.,be exelcistd by
:toy one bill the MOnarch, without an Aet.Of
teens for that purpose. .13efere, however, he exoa-
tiated at any greattr hongth on this pact of the sob-
' jecl, he wished to state to their Lordships the ground,
on which, notwithstauding seducieg.and pers a
,loe eloeutece of this NOblo F icods near him,he still
Adhered to tit,. opinion which having long since coo-
-1 ecived, he had frequently recommended in silence
and in solitude, and in VL hieh, meditation upon
sobject set ved in confirm him the more stronglyo-r
This opinion was, that under all the circumstances
of the case, a prce2eedhig by Bill by far- prefer-
, able to a prect-ectingby Ad‘tress. The question be-
fore their Lordstrips at present was very nanow.—.
It had not the- slightest• reference to -the question
whether the Royal Power 'shbuld be gratittqj entire;
or; only in part to the Regent, but was confined
soliely to al,: consideration of the . mode by which
that power should be: granted at all. It had been
argued in favour of the proceeding by Address, that
it Avpuft.l be a' less r rotratied triode of obtaining the
objea than a proceeding by Bi.l. Even were this,
argnMent well founded; it would scarcely- alter his
opinion in favour of the latter mode of proceeding;
but it WAS not so. F.;r eight weeks, orrunfounded
:Negation=, their Lprds;:hrs bad been induced to oe-
lay any proceeding. It ~t the"..cornmencement of
tlrat period, they had applied themselves to the dis-
charge of their duty by way of Bill, instead of the
first step being now to be taken, they would have bad
an-existing Government, capable of fulfilling all the
royal functions, foreign and domestic,. If even at
the present moment, their' Lordships would apply
themselves like men who were determined to do their
duty, 'it would be in their power to effect the-ob-
ject desired by war of Bill, es speedily as, by way
of Address, because the Address suggested by his
Noble Friend contained within it a proposition
which must itself ibecomeithe
.subject. of a subse-
quent Bill. His Noble Friend who .had spoken last
had must accurately disided.the question into two
par•s—its relation to the analogies of the ponsiitu-
tibp and its ' probable efEcielicy.i., With n spece;
to the first of these divisions he would riot fatigue
their Lordshies', with a long eziumeration of prect•-
• dents which -had. been. stated over and over again
t wenty-two years" ago—which had been .again.
stated that night, and -which were familiar to
He shbuld corifine'hithself to notice one case men-
tioned by his Noble Friend who moved the Amend-. •
roent,and which seemed to him fo deserve consider-
: Lion. -Me could not.deny to his. Noble :Friend,
that ifs;llre two eases iu the reign of Henry V,I,
the powcer of Regent was concerted -on a petson
substantively by the authority' of Pa-rhament, and
without Ate royal tonsent, btu that in_both those
cases a Commissioner was -appohtted by the King, to
at it) Parliament for . lint]. The country was now
placed in a situatiOnin which the pertehnal consent
of the Monarch could not he ol:eained, and in which
the two' Houses of Parliament Must eroceed,Wil-,
Out it. The. Minister of the present day might
be considered in the same light as:the Comtnissioner
in the reign oilieniy VI. He iigred in the
words expressed by Lord Camden, that during,the
present calamity " the fuoctions of the Executive
Government were totally su;pended;': and he was
prepared to maintain that the Noble Lord opposte,
and his colleaguss.-had been gUiliy of a gros4 userpa-
tion of the-royal authority; of a flagrant violation of
the principles of ihe Constitution, and of an outrage,
ous insult on the rights-and privileges of their.teilow
,subjects, by issuing, in the King's name, orders
Which they could not have received' from the
King's hand. Fell), adMitting that there were
elfliculties in both the modes of proceeding recom-
mended, lie asked whether a greater number of
those dtffic,ulties would be avoided by proceeding
by Bill than , by proceeding 'by 'Address the
one case the two Houses to Parlhonent would take
upon themselves to give the Royal Assent to a
measure; in the other ca set hey Woeldeinpo wer "any
individual' to give the lLyal assent "to a measure.—
lie was persuaded that there Was not titan in the

Lonntry wito would more 'wish to avoid the undue
rNeiche of authority than his Royal Highness the
Prince•tif 'Wales; arid he did rt,t conceive thiA it
-would be just in the 'ttiro Elothes to set up his Royal
Flightless as a phantom of unreal' power.'' In bOth-the

mocte•P,of proceeding snggcsted" the difficulties were
equally great, and he should. he sorry- to conceal this
,
fac.a. It had been said, that 'in 1688, the con-
vention of the Stales of the .I.ltalin - had addressed
the Prince of Orange, to aßSunte the Regal PoWer,
before they declared the Thione vacant. Nov it
there was une hi,torical fg.,l' better established .in'
hi, memory than another, it vas, that in that
stance the convention did not address the Wince '
of Oran' e, 'to asstnne file, Regal Power, until they
had dcClared the. Throne vacant. 'lt wag true' they
dia.address the Prince of Orange—not to assume the
Regency—but only " to.take into his /Janda the :ad-
ministration -6f affairs, civil and military, and the
disposal of the.pubiic revenue, until a further appli-
,:ation should be made unto Thus he etas
anlnntied to no particivation of legislative authority,
mid was trot cteitlCA •by the 'ConvcrLion a power '
co-orniate wi:l4 ti:cir -own. It was long after
tuts circumstance discoss:d whether the Ptince of

0.; ;.;

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RC 2i4C' SUN.c,4I

/I,IS,

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BOW-ItTeCti and Pt- b 1
I"i„Strlir,l4ls wtere eldwertise►nents, Orders

this Vas too alelieatesa trost to vest.in. the Prince of
Wales, they assumed it themselves without law—
without authority, and without the Warrant of Par-
liament. In one case, it was reported that their
condu& had been injurious to the health of the
Royal sufferer. Of that h 6 knew nothing. But in
more cases it was known that their conduct had
been in direct opposition to the wishes of the'Royal
Family. In what country did their Lordships live ?
who were the men on the benCh opposite ?
Ki-
therto he had 'considered them as weak and
cient Ministers; now they appeared the Sovereigns
of the country-, usurping that authority which they
declared ought not to be entrusted even to the son
of the King. If application were made to, the
- Court of Chancery on behalfsof an individual af-
flicted -as his Majesty was, the care of that- indivi-
dual was vested, under the King's authority, in the
hands of -his nearest and most affectionate relation.
In such a case, the King was the gum-alien of his
subjects. In the present instance, the subjects
ought to become the guardians of their Monarch.
Surely his Majesty was intitled to a participation in
the benefits of .his people, and until a provision
had been made for the purpose by the States of the
, Realm, the King' ought, in Common justice, in
common feeling, and in common deer-nee, to have
been committed to the care-of his afflicted
. There were other 'closes of usurpation on the pelt
cf. Ministers, which serious as they were, would per-
haps appear light, when-compared with that which
he had just mentioned. Tiesy had assumed, the
command of the King's armies. They had issued
orders to send troops abroad. Form rig this was
a part of the ROyal Prerogative thought too deli-
cate to be touehed even by Parliament ; but now
it was assumed by persons inflated with an idea.of
authority, warranted by 'no law. Not only had
they trenched on the prerogatives of the Crown, but
they had invaded the most sacred privilege's of Par.
liainent itself. If there was one point of Parlianien-
tasy privilege more sacred than another, it' as the
privilege of taxation. Wete the King incomplete
nremal and bodily health; he would have no au-
thority to levy taxes, w hich could be imposed by
Parliament elope. •Ministera hid, bower, er, ven-
tured without comMunivation to Parliainent, to
eater into a treaty with tho great body of distil-
lers respecting the duties .on distilleries. Thsy
might perhaps say, that-they ooly engaged to pro-
Vse these regulations to Parliament ; brit th
MCI was, that,, 011 the strength of that asecoms
niendation many indiaideals had embarked ::their
whole formnes. Parliament would therefore be
placed in the situation, 'either of exercising eo
dia-
cussion on the subject, or if they disaproved of
the proposed regolations, -of involving •in rtin
a }erect and opuleet class of the people. 'But, in
addit on 'to all th .se r iolations of the Coeititu-
to, woat would their Lordships sly, w hen they
were- told - that at' the very moment when
.Mini-
sters applied to the, two House of Patlia.eient, tor
authority- to puothe Great Seal to an instrument,
they Were deliberating on the propriety of puiting
the Privy Seal to.anot her instrumetit s an instrument
which would give them the d.sposal of a million hd
a halt of the King's revenue ? if such. an act‘shoold
be done, those who did it must abide ()I-the eon=
sequences ; bit should it net be felleaved by the
vengeance of insulied authority, there would be art
end to she independence of They
would be treated with the contempt which their
forbearance would merit, and would justly excite
universal indignation.
The Lotto CHANCELLOR remindei the Committee
of the line of conduce 'pursued in 1784 and 89, and
contended that they were the Perliameete'having.
been so prior to his Majesty'S proreguiog them so
the east of November ; they met at that ?eriod, and
no subsequent ad had dissolved them. A. part of the
Lords and Commons were oppo-ed w the other ;
the one being for investing a Regent with Regal
Authority, by Bill, the other giving it by Address.
• The NDble and Learned Lord then took a compre-
hensive view of the proceedings in 1788, and 1789,
which 'be considered as having established a .prece-
dent necessary and proper to be followed in the pre-.
sent instance. It was necessary that their proceedings,
should be regarded as binding by the Judges in West=
minster Hail. Tliis 'effect would be pioduced by
their investing the Regent with the royal authority
by Bill; as it would be regarded as. en act of legis-
lat'on, and they (the Judges) could see DO defe&
in the King's political capaciiy. The princifle-
on which the House proteeded then was, the ne-
cessity of the case. Parliament had slated on the same
principle during the infancy of Henry'Vf. and the
infirmity of Ht VIII; At present they had not'w
place an Mdividual on a vacant throne : they had
!o appoint some one to exercise the regal power in
the Dime and on behalf of the reigning IVlOnarch,
or at least to exercise so 1210C-'.of the regal authority
as they could with p oprietv lodge in the hands of
any such person. There wa, a wide difference
between\ the present situation of things, and that
in which they stood at the time of- the Revolu-
tion. He wished those who were fur an Address,
to remember, that at that peaiod we had neither
King nor a Great Seal. A Great Seal wss in itself
of no importance, and when the Throne was de-
clared vacant, it might as well have been at
the bottom of the Thames as any where else.
As to what. had been said, that any silversmith
might furnish a Great Seal, he should reenark,
that no- silversmith could give authority to the
Great Seal ; no •Chancellor could give authority
to a Great Seal, as it derived all its importance from
the King. He then proceeded to speak of the man-
ner'in which the Royal assent had b en given, and
detailed the circumatances of the reversal of the Act
of Attainder passed agaatst the Duke of Norfolk in
the feign of Henry Vllf. It was the' duty of the States
of the Realm 'to supply the defeet in the Executive,
as no other bpdy had that power. The,preceilent of
1788,and 1789,was a proceeding which carried with
'it the whole foree.of Parliament, and ought therefore
to be adopted. It ,was of great consequence that the
Cow ta at Westminster should ecknowledge their
proceeliega, which they must- do in that case„ and,
therefore, the proposition was at once justified by
policy and by law. The Noble arid ;.earned Lord
'then repliel to the observations that had been ranee
on his condo :t. The,expressioni he had Made use of
on a firmer inseting, with respect to the probability
of his Majesty's recovery, vierenot stronger dm he

lished by WU/ IAM tIitIVIIGFR SC South Nit,:tun street, Gr,..evel.:ti, i.;u . c
QT the Pcper, Lettr; (o tt•e Edito k f,'r.",f t•p2ift 1, twist .(dress:(.

~
was justified in malltig. They Were even below
what would have b.en warranted by the examination
of the Physicians, which he then held in his hand.
He. felt fully justified in having acted as he had done,
and under such circumstances, nothing on earth
should have made him act otherwise. He had been
actt,iated by a sincere desire to nertorm his duty,
to hich he had discharged to the best of his power.
He was confident there was co man in the nation
who did not, love 11. e King, and -who would not •
fead.ly pardon, any errors on
,the side of attach-
mem to so good a Monarch. Ministersh id been se-
verely reproached for their condut:t; they had been
told that they made themselves Kings, and/that tiler.
..
vcre audatious and arrogant. men; but aaing for tae .1
pohlic goal, they were fearleSs of the consequences. •
Wh it they had done, it had be-C(1 said, was done
merely, with, a view of preserving their own power.
This; he need scarce s.ly, was Oot OW fiiti, and God
help the man wh,, had an appetite for such a situa-
tion. Fur his Own .part, he knew riot how be could
legally get out of his othCe till the King.commanded
him to resign the Great Seal, or till a ile.,y-ria was in-
vested with/ aui hinny' to relie‘e him of the charge.
Lord E itSK. INE defied their Lordsilip,•• to proJuee
one precedent, other that; that-- I ;88 hud 89, that
IA °old justify them' in adOpt tog the proposnion of
Ministty. , , . ,'..,,
Lord LAUDERDkI,A_' followed on the sarn,.: side,
and coru'piaii-n.ig that Ministers assumed too mucti
authority, observed, that if he had a living in his
gift, he might dispose of it to u Clergyman, but had
no right to tt,..), into the pulpit hituselt.
LOLd REDESDALE' said, their Lordships hart come to
a resolution, 11)4,4 was their duty to mnuedy the de-
.fret in the -eNecutive power. Flow was that deficiency
-to be supplied by them but by an ad of the le,iisla-
lion ? Tile two Houses could out legtsiate by an Ad-
dress; it was therefore necessary toprot.ect byßill. An
Acktre,s might b prsterabte, it a right on the part of -
the person io b,ituade Regent wyfe,acknowkdged i
but ii." the 4bsence of welt right, as they could not
give pOwer, by an
„Arldress, it as eNp dint to pro-
ceed by .1:10f. The N.ible Lord ta, n detailed the
events of the Revolution,- and the procee:fings of
the two Houses-of Pat hainent on 111 if OCCLISiOn..i.-.
Tlliiie, he contend,,d, Ithroished no precedent fur a
case, where•there was a King ~n the throne, and
where. there was a Pa Ihi 'Lnetot legally assembled. In
the pesent state at things, they wa."... justified in de-
tiTrmining holithe Royal Assent shod.id be given by
the necessity of the cise-; and as to what had been
said 'of their usurping the royal authority, in acting
as proposed, he maintain'zNi that the usur,:a. ion would I
be precisely the same if they proceeded by Address. 1
Loid HoLna No supported the amendment, and I
said, that if a Noble Friend (Lord Grey) were pre-
sent,
he would do the sane, but that it at were lie-,
gatived he wo`ald enter his protest. on the Journals.
The Earl of LIVERPCiO4, in answer, said that- it
~
was intended the Report should 'be taken into con-
sideration
at the usual. hour , (five o'clock this day).
He also observed, in answer to a;question (loin atio,,
t her Noble Loid, that it was his intention to propose
that the House,should sit oil Saiurday, for the pun.
po,eot holdiiig a 'Conference:With the commons.
A-division took place on ti.e arnendineaat, when
the.numbers were--
Non.coments - . , - . ' lOU i.
COiltelltS .. - ' , . 74
Majority against the Amendment —26
The original question was then put and carried,
and the House adjourned at Three o'Clock this
morning. .

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L U ' D 0 N,
FRIDAY, DECEMBER

" Windsor Castle, Dec. 28, Olio.
- " His IVIA3E,Ty has been rather better through
the
_last twenty-four hours.

The Z.oEon packet has arrived at Plymouth frone
Cadiz. She has brought Letters and Papers to the
12th. The account of the defeat of General BLASE,
by SrmAsTrast is, we are sorry to say, Colltinned.
SEaASTSASt has since joined tine army before Cticliz
with-eight or nine thousand men.
Asthe French gon-boats have lately_beeome rather
troublesome, an attack was made upon a division of
them siationed at St. Mary's, by some British (Ina
Spanish bbats, pr►ncipally the former : the Freilicli
were driven from their station, and three of their
gun-boats destroyed. A report was 'circulated at
Cadiz, :Wm the Toulon fleet had made its escape,
and that it_ was destined for that place ; in conse-._
quence of which Adrniriti KEATS thought it ex.
went lo retain some 6f the larger line of battle
ships at Cadiz, which it bad been before in con-
templation to send home.

An At Colt Mail artived this morning. The only
news of any importance which it brings is, an ac-
count of the seizure and confiwation of 17 ships,
laden with Colonial produce; which pnt into Memel
in distress. It is added, that 180 'other vessels NVO'd
lo,t in a tempest.
A peace has been concluded between Russia and'
Persia.

. .
Last night a long and very interesting Debate took •
place in the House of Lords, upon the Resoluttoi;s
agreed to by the Commons, and tianStnitted to tii,:ir
LArdships. Upon a division, there were for ti,e '
Resolutions 101), and 'ogainst them 74. The Morn'
ing Cl4ronicle • has discovered in this division, sive.
know. not.wLy, sonie cruse,of,triumpli. .“ For the
first ti•re,.' sa)s the Clironicle,..•‘lin the history of
this Ca,intry, st.venty-tour Is::ers voted against the
personS holdint4.otlice." Wee-ir(wist request the'AtiP .
thor of _the above assertion to look back to that part
of the history of ibis Country which treats of Mr.
Fox's farnons. India Bill, ,arA Le trill find that on
__:i.
one oecgsiOA doling t hi- .d6cliss'on: vii that Bill 4'14
the 'HJure of Lordi, eightylvevon l'eura—aild on an" R.:::
other, nihety-jive Peers, v9ted against the peasoo4 'ft
holding.ottice It is tathrlr A singular coincidence, '
that on tit..l t;rt at debate in. ,fie House of Lords cP
the it,:ti„trioy queitiop ,40 i 789 , the (Lai( Aity iii f:4-.'
Vi,til Or t Ilt,Nlilll4lCT* eras ptecsely the same as it 1.05
la't night, viz tNk clitY-s!X. Atld upon that occasion
only'llinety-thtei.".l),, is vote 4 with .A.:.tininisiration•

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