The Sun.
London, England, 1821-01-26 00:00:00

VIE KING'S ANSWER.

The Lonu CHANCELLOR thell informed the
House, that his. Majesty bad graciously been
pleased to receive their Address, and to return
an Answer (ih-icfi -his Lordship read), in hich
his Majesty expressed his thanks for the senti-
ments of loyalty and affection to his person COU-
tained in the Address ; and his confidence that
all their measures Would be calculated to main-
taiu the dignity of the Throne, to enforce due
obedience to the Laws, to support the 'Con-
stitution, and to secure the- happiness of his

people..
Ilis ilbjestyN 'gracious Answer:was then or-
dered to be entered upon the JOurnals.
The. LoRD.-CnANcELLou,-gave notice, that on
Wednesday, next he should, sit fur the purpose
of hearing Appeals. •

Lord ERSKINE presented Petitions from &tiff,

the Incorporate Trades of Dumfries, Arbroath,
Greenock, Nrew Deer, in the County. of Aber-
deen, and the Burgesses and Inhabitants of •tlfe
Royal Burgh of Selkirk,- praying, that all the
rights of Queen Consort be restored to her Ma-
jesty; and that her name be replaced in the
Liturgy.----Read, and ordered to -lie on the
table.

Lord taSKINE also presented a Petition from
the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of
the City of hollaon, in Common Council assem-
bled, to the same elfect, with an additional
prayer, that an Inquiry should take place into
the cause of the late proceedings, in order to
punish those by whose advice they had been in-
stigated.—Read, and 'laid on the table:,
couNTY SITERIFFS.

The Earl of I) IFLNLEY had to present Pea-

tion both numerously and' respectably signed.
It was from the Clergy, Gentry, and Freehol-
ders of the County of Rent, and had been agreed
to in consequence of the refusal of the Sheriff to
accede to a requisition for holdihg a County'
Meeting. 2 although that Requisition was signed
by •a'Member of Parliament and a large number
of yeomen rind respectable Freeholders of the
County. The, Petition also prayed for an in-
quiry into the .mode of appointing Sheriffs, and
he (the Noble Earl) conceived with the Peti-
tioners that it was a point from which the
greatest abuse might arise. This was not the
proper time for entering into the subject, but
he certainly thought that it ought to come under
the notice of Parliament, how far an officer ap-
pointed at the pleasure of the Crown, should be
investri with the power of refusing and suspend-

ing one of the first rigfits of the subject, the
right 'of-petitioning-for relief,
Tire Earl of LIVERPOOL did not rise to object
to the ,Petition, or to undertake the defence
of. the Sheriff, whose conduct it impugned, as he.
had no information on the suhject, but inconse-
'
quence of an observation which had fallen frem.
the. Noble Earl respecting the appointment of
Sheriffs,- Instead, of being entirely at theplea,
sure of the Crown, nothing could be more judi7
dicial than that appointment.. Individuals were
recommended. to hold. the Office of Sheriffs•by
the. Judges of the Court of Exchequer, on the.
oaths of those Judges, and a selection was then
made by the King in Council, taking the first- On
the list against whom' no objection had been:found,
'and without. airy reference whatever to political
opinions.
Tire Earl of DARNLEY, in explanation, said,
that he did not mean to impute that the influence
of the Crown was exercised in the appointment of
Sheriffs, bat merely to observe, that, under
other circumstances,. they might be made, the in
struinentspf the Crown to obstruct,very materi-
ally the right of petitioning. •
The Earl of GROSVENOR. adverted to the pro-
ceedings at the 'Chester County Meeting .for the
'of shewing the very extraordinary con-
duct of tie Sheriff, who had chosen to take upon
himself, to decide. that an amendment proposed.
by him( Lord Grosvenor) was irrelevant, without
putting any question upon it to the 'Meeting, and
who had afterwards also taken, upon himself to-
decide that the Address was agreed to, and re:-
fused, although called upon to do so, to adopt
Any Mode by which the sense of the IVleeting_
could be really ascertained. He, trusted that
this extraordinary conduct of the Sheriff, so sub
versive of the rights of the subject, would. be ma,de
the iubject of animadversion, if not in that-House,
in the other House Of. Parliarnent, and that senile.
means-would :be found of marking it with .a pro-
Fer severity of :censure.
Petition was read and -ordered to lie on
the table.

THF.TuIiGY.
The Earl of: AvastEy-Observed,. with regard
to the exclusion of the Queen's name froth the
Liturgy, that that unfortunate measure had been
,the sole cause of all the evilS that had arisen out
of the. steps taken respecting the Queen, and he
trusted that MipiSteys would not endeavour toil
influent -e the House of CoMmoni to- refitsetO call]
upon the CroWn to restore her Majesty's name to
the service- of the Church. ShOUld, howeVer,
they sue-coo in. setting the House of Commons.
anti the country' in diametrical opposition to each
other, thereby furnishing the 'Strongest argument
for. Parliamentary Reform," he should feet it his,
duty to move their Lordships' House for. the. re,
•storation of her Majesty's nameto the Lituran
with the colitidence he. waientitled to. feel, that
Has on, the late occasion, anntiiher of MernberS of
that House would rel'use tof be influenced by
those considerations which might operate
,Upon
other occasions, and that -Ministers Could not, as
I they foundhefore,.command a majority..
Lord If 01.1„.4 so presented a similar Petition from
the. Corporation of NottinghaM, to Which he' had
the honotirto belong, but withdrew it on Itccount
of a-Clerical error-. JiiSH,LOrdship alSo presented
a shnilar.:Petition from.a.Corporation
„to 'whiCh,he
hatLalso thehanour to belong, but he Was afraid
he was a very inefficient Member-the CorPoraL
lion of liammermeu.of Perth. Ile hoped, how,.
ever, that the nail they had in- hand would drive
the expression 4 in the-Speech:from the Throne;
would 'goo. great way to allay the irritation that,
prOYailed. • There wanted. nothing ,but for thole
Lordships to say their prayr.rs.
The Yetition wasordered to lie upon the tablC
-Lord ELL6rnotioucat obserVed, that some of
the Petitioners appeared to, petition in' ignorance
of the real nature of, the question respecting
which :they prayed. die House, There was no
question now ahout. restoration of rights, The
object of the gill of Pains and Penalties was to
deprive her Majesty of all these Privileges, im-
munities and exemptions which appertained to
her as Queen Consort, and that Bill being thrown
out, of course her Majesty's rights remained as
they were, before, untouched and Undithinished.
Lord HoLLAND said, that the Noble Lord
might -have Made up his mind- upon the question
as to the right of the Queen to have her name
inserted in the Liturgy., that no such right ex-
isted, but undoubtedly- there were men high iu
the law, and others eininent in station, who were
of opinion, that the Queen bad a legal, right to
have her name inserted in the'Liturgy-. It was,
therefore, quite natural that the \people, seeing
that he,r M.ajesty's name was excluded from the
Liturgy, and witnessing hesi4es that her Maje Sty
was refused a Palace, and that no establishment
had hitherto been given to her, that they should
Petition for Ow interference of that House, to
have her Majesty restored to those rights which
appertained to her .as Queen Consort, and
bad been. enjoyed by all preceding Queen
Co-psorts. .
ELLENBOROUGH, in explanation, ad-
mitted, that the question respecting the insertion
of the Queen's name in the LitUrgy was liatle
to very considerable 4pul)E and difficulty,' and
though he might have fin.Mcd an OPinion.upon it,
he, was n-ell-a,ware.that it .was a cinestion of great
delicacy and difficulti.,----Adl he meant to say,
was, that the
,Queen's rights as Queen Consort
were not at all affected. •
SimilarPetitiOns. from the Bokering Corpora-
tion of Perth, the 'ilimniermen of Leith, the
Burgh of .Ding Will, &c." *ere presented by the
Earl Grey, and ordered to lie Upon the Table.
WILTSHIRE PETITION.

The Marquess of LANsDowN' presented a si-
milar Petition from WiltshireI agreed to at a

•
HAMPSHIRE COUNTY MEETING.
The Earl of CAR.SAHON presented , a simliat
petition from ilanipshire, ao.reed to a.ta County
Meeting convened by the Sheriff, and wbkh Nias
most numerously and respectably attended. The
petition, his Lordship stated, was signed by from
7to 8000 persons, all of then freehold or in
some way, proprietors or occupiers of hind. iie
felt it necessary to advert, with reference to this
Meeting, to the extraordinary attempt made to
prevent it, by a number of persons SiglliTig a
Counter-ltequisition to tile Sheriff, among. whom
were some Members of. his Majesty's Councils.
lie rejoiced, however, that this attempt bud
failed, and that the county had, been allowed to
express its opinion in a legal and. Constitutional
manner. _ _

-The Duke of-WELLtNwrox said, if the Noble
Lord meant to allude to him, he thought, it right
to state that he did hot sign the Counter-keg:li-
st;on, because- he Mt that, being MeMber of
MS Majesty's Government, and being also Lord
Lieutenant of the Co-Linty, it would be improperi
for him to interfere for the purpose of preventing
a County Meeting. He mast say, however, that
he entirely agreed with the', Counter-Requisi-
tionists in thinking it :unnecessary, alto' the sen-
timents of: the County had been expressed.- 41 nu.
A.ddress.signed by 900.0 respectable individnal-,3,
that the•Counfy should be again called together ;
nor did he think in any 'point of view that, the
.farce of a County. Meeting -was at all necessary,
or could be of the slightest service.
The Earl Of CARNAIIyoNsaid lie had notirwito,
puted to the Noble Duke that he had signed'
Counter-Requisition. The Noble Dukehad,ou
the contrary; very properly declined doing,,so,
for the reasons he had stated. But it was- signed,
by Lord Palmerston and by a Membc.4 of-the
Board of Controul.' 'When, however, the N'oble'
Duke,stated that the sense of the county had al-
ready been expressed, he felt it necessary to state
the fact, that this expression of the sentiments of
the county, merely arose from a circular sent by
the Secretary of the Vitt Club to the Ministers of
all the parishes in Hampshire, calling open,'thei-u
to obtain the signatures Of their parishioners' and.
friends to the,Address thus sent. ll,e must say.,
that it was most improper for the Ministers. of
Religion to be thus interfering in pOlitics, when
their sole business ought to be to heal all
skins and 'dissensions. amongst their parishioners.
But to. Call:this Address an expression of
,the
sense of the county; 'so as to preclude a County
Meeting,. was altogetherpost erronedus, becae”.
it'gaveno,opiniou whatever upon. those .topcs
upon which a large Porthan of the Freeholders
were-anxious to express their opinion, and itNias
not without dismay that he had heatd-the
Doke call the County Meeting a farce. Was' he
to underltand that such was the feeling .of the
King's Government, that the ancient and cansti-
ttitional right of the people to meet in :their re-
spective counties and express_their opinions upon
publicatfairs, was all a farce ? such were the
case, the people might in 'return say, that the
proceedings of that and the other house of Par-
liament were all a farce. Such conduCt was in-
deed most impolitic and unwise, as tending to set
the Parlia.ment.and the People, in decided hosti-;
lity to each other.
_ The Duke of WELLINGTON, in explanation,
said, he. :did not mean to denominate County
Meetings a .farce, being well aware that such
'Meetings-were a part of the Constitution, and
that when properly coudOcted, opinion
might be expressed by them in a constitutional
Manner. His objection was, to the Calling
.a
County Meeting in Hampshire, after the sense
of the County had been sufficiently e:,-.l:ressed,
as be thought, by an Addre7sg
.sigued by 9,000
Preeholders, such County .Meeting, beinlT, in fat't,
nothing more than the asseroblin of a ,mob,
and at which even the County Member could not
be heard, except through the protection of the
Noble Earl.
f The Earl of CARNARTON denied that the
County Member was 'refused - a hearing, as ha
was actually heard out the whole of what..he
wooed to
,say. Undoubtedly there were ex=
pressions of disapprobation, but not more._ than
he had sometimes heard even in . that and the
Other House of Parliameht,
The Marquess or LiNs-nowN observed, With
regard to the assertion of the Noble Duke, 'that
there was no necessity for calling the County of
Hants together again, that in point of fact there
had been. no• previous' meeting. The Address,
which, the Noble Doke alluded to, as having
been signed by so many individuals, was a cifeti-
lar, which was sent round ,for-sigeatutes,{ns.Stat-
ed by his .Noble Friend, and which those - to
whom it was sent had no more power tp
:alto r
than the. Clergy` had to alter the
.39' articles,
which they were called upon to sign, previous to

ordination. And the circular thus gent round,
contained no expression whatever of opinion upon
those topics, in which so large a proportio❑ of
the Freeholders of Hants naturally felt so deep

an interest. It was, therefore, not without the
deepest concern, that he had heard the Noble
Duke denominate the County Meeting a farce.
County Meetings were an essential part of the
Constitution designed for the free and legitimate
expression of .public opinion.; they had been so
for ages, and he trusted they wodhl.continue for
ages t?..cornt, toc, 41e.,a -payt. -of lire Constitution.
Ile coLlttri, more '‘t than
tka .eficreavoui I'6 iitifltillFnl
aricf-t,4:6'-.c,ls 'a gross inccinkdsfeticy in now 'at,
tecii`:ti'.;: 10 di..cr'y theni on ttie'part.bl the King's
Uni.ertment,'when not. alwv:e-a-year since
ings we.re surntrioneu by that very Go.Vseintnenf
ahitoiCifVery County, for the purpos6'of taking
ititiecintsitreration the state of pnbticfatfairi.:

•?flr6l);:ike‘of ''WELLING Toy; in further- ex-
pia-testier., said, he •did not mean to- assert, what-
eVer wcird'he 'might have used, from not beiiik
ttetut:ert-ted" to public 'speaking,' that there had
1;,;elf. a Previous Meeting of the County of Hants;
ail he Meant- to have said was, th'it -the Address
to tillich 'he had -alluded being so numerously
signed,; it wa a sufficient ekpressissn of the-sense
or flsiC'eoinity; and•there was' no necessity for a
County Meeting. As to calling a Connty Meet;:
itvg f.t. farce, lin again wished.to disclahn applying
ti €.
stei'rri to County Meetings generally, but only
tOtttese Meetings where, by the assembling of
a mob, both sides, or all sides, could not.be fair-
ly heard, and all discUSsion was in fact prevented
Uv elarnotir and noise. County Meetings were
undeubtedlra part of the Constitution, to which
he never meant to.make the slightest Objection ;
he only objected to the-se Meetings'Where clamour
and c'otsfufion'prevented all fair discussion.'
Lord llor..l.:tsio deprecated the expression of
any`.setsiiinents tending to de.cry County Meet-
Tide right'of assembling in County Meet-
ings Wts, as old as their Lordships' House—it
whicll-formed an essential part of the
Censtitution, and which•ought not to be lightly
treated'hy language tending to throw discredit
upon such.-assemblies. There might be defects
—there. -were, indeed, defects in County -Meet-
ings, hist So there were defects in the Constitu-
tion of. Parliament, and in what human institu-
tion Were-there not defects ? But it would be idle
to Say that because there were defects, defects
vhihindeed were unavoidable, that therefore
te•right ought not to be exercised. It was,the
legitimate tight of the people to- express their
opinion in County Meetings, and. he trusted that
right sVOI).111 never be-curtailed or infringed upon.
There might be expressions of disapprobation
used at them, and so-there were in that and the
other 'House of Parliament, but as to clamour
and cbnfuSion,-- if -any allusion was meant to the
meetings at which he had attended, he'could
only 'idy, that at:the two County Meetings, those
of Bedfsirdshire and Oxfordshire, at which he
had' been present, erery body was fairly heard,
and there was a decided disposition to hear what
every one had fo say. It was, therefore, unfair
to stigmatize County Meetings generally- as
scenes of • clamour • and confusion, as it was to
them we must look, and might fairly look, for
the legitimate arid constitutional expression of
pehliC opinion.
The Ear=l of LIVERPOOL said, his Noble Friend
(the Duke.of Wellington) had been much Misap-
prehended, it certainlV never having •been his in-
tentiOn,, inWhat he had said, to stigmatise Coun-
ty Meetings. There was no doubt whatever, that
County Meetings were an essential part of the
Corlstitution; and when those Meetings were
held according to ancient custom, in the County
'Hall,
_with proper precautions as to those who
were admitted, they might be looked to for the
fair expression of public opinion ; but when they
were held in the open air, all classes of indivi-
duals (classes not known to the law by any de-
signation) being present, it was impossible there
could be any fair discussion, and the fact was well
known to be, 'that whatever Address or Petition
was agreed to at a County Meeting, the signa-
tures to it were 'not looked for there, but were
afterw-ards added on 'tine document being sent
round for that 'purpose. It'therefore came ulti-
mately to the saute pciint as a paper sent round
fur signatures without a Aleuting, the expression
of opinion, in either case, being only 'that of
those who signed' it. It certainly, however, was
not. his intention, OF that of his Noble Friend, to
stigmatize County Meetings ; all that was meant
was, that those Meetings in which clamour and
confusion prevailed, to the exclusion of fair dis-
cussion, did not convey a sufficient expression of
public opinion.
The Earl GREY expressed his surprise that
there should now be such a jealousy of County
Meetings, when so short a time had'elapsed since
they were called for on the part of that Govern-
ment which now found out so many objections to
them. Were those County Meetings to be only
considered unobjectionable wittm it was previously
kne,.vn that all parties woold be agreed in the
expression of an opinion favourable to the Go-
vernment ? There might be expressiOns of disap-
peobatien at County Meetings,, and at what
Meetings of any-description were there not at
times similar expressions, but when County
Meetings were designited as scenes of clamour
and confusion, it would be as well to observe
where the greatest elm-hour and, confusion had
prevailed, and who had been the authors of it.
There was, for instance,- the-County Meeting at
Chester, of which they had heard a description
from his Noble Friend (Lord Grosvenor) ; who
were the- authors and promoters of the clamour
and confusion that prevailed there'? Certainly a
description of persons very opptisite in opiniong
to those whom the Noble Lords on the other
side would designate as the most likely to pro-
mote clamour and confusion: Bot to come to a
scene much -nearer -home, and almost at their
own doors. It 'was only.yesterday that a meet-
ing was held at the Mansion-house. of the Bank-
ers, Merchants, and Traders of London, sum-
moned by most respectable Individuals. In con-
sequence of the conduct of some of that body,
who had endeavoured to assume an exclusive
loyalty to themselves—who were the authors of
the • disgraceful clamour mid coaluslou that

ir.gc.

prevailed tilere-? Certainly a description of per-
sons very opposite to 'whom the Noble
Lords on the other .Side might be dkposed to stig-
matize for wanting .14yalti_l all Oci,c4porti 4t d.''
confusion were caused 45.41te who..as,%,
sumed to themselves to exclusivelyjoyal.
would be as well44llerbfore; for NoblAords----ba
the other--side, before they stigmatized Meetings
for being scenes of clamour and.,confusion, first,
to ascertain who it was that prevented a fair tlis-
CUSSiOn. Certainly nothing could be more impo-
litic or unwise than to throw such a stigma gene-
rally
,upon County Meetings, assembled, as they
ivere;- Torthe-constitutional expression of public
opinion: -'
The Duke of te-EvlrErt. said, 'he believed Iris
Majesty's Ministers were. extremely fond •of
confi§.de" theatre ; shut the 'farce at: Dublin, to'
Use the Noble Duke's phrase, where the military
were called_ in: from • the county-gaol; 'and 'tile
meeting dispersed vi el armis, had nearly termi-
' nated in a tragedy. Heshould shortly have oc-
casion to call the attention •of the House to this

subject.
The Earl of BLEstSTON. wished to say a few
words Upon the sUbjet alluded to by the Noble
Duke who bad just sat down. The Noble Earl
opposite had .said, that he had no :objection to
County Meetings, where an opportunity was af-
forded of hearing the arguments which' Might be
urged on both sideS, and entering into a calm,
fair, and impartial discussion of public questions.
But *What. was the conduit of the Sheriff- of the
County -of Dublin? Did he allow gentlemen to
address the meeting on both sides of the ques-
tion, or did he permit any person to offer his sen-
timents who was opposed to the Requisition ?
No,-he chose-rather to dissolve the meeting, than
to hear any opinions opposed to his .own ; he
proceeded to call in the military, without apply-
ing to the civil power, and actually handed 'Lord
.Cloncurry out of the chair, whose good humour
and discretion on that occasion -prevented this
farce, as was observed by the Noble- Duke, from
-terminating in a tragedy.
The Earl of CARNARVON strongly reprobated
the attempt which had been made to cast a re-
proach upon one of the most respectable meet
ings he had ever attended. He hoped the Noble
Duke would learn to appreciate better the cha-
racter :of English meetings in general, and that
he would not. without better information, at-
tempt-to degrade a respectable public meeting of
an English County, by designating it as a cla-
morous mob.

LordiELLENnonoUG H had certainly heard with
regret the unguarded expression which had fallen
from the' Noble Duke, and if he had understood
it in the-same sense as the Noble Earl, he should
have concurred in the full measure of reproba-
tion with which he had commented upon it. He
believed, however, that it was not the intention
of the Noble Duke to apply that expression to
all County Meetings, but only to those meetings
at which circumstances rendered it impossible for
the party dissenting from those who called it, to
express -an opinion. lie had viewed with. deep
regret the proceedings which had taken place at
some of.our County Meetings, proceedings, which
to a certain
.degree merited the expression used
by the Noble Duke, not so much through the
fault of those who attended them, as of those
who absented. themselves. He lamented that
those individuals who expeCted to be in a mi-
nority,, should on that account have absented
themselves, and not have, endeavoured at least to
obtahia hearing, and express
.their difference of
opinion. If the large bOdy of, individuals who
signed the private Address, to which the Noble
Duke had alluded, had attended at the County
Meeting, their presence might have materially
influenced the results of that Meeting.
The Petition was ordered to lie on the Table.
DECLARATION OF THE. ALLIED SOVEREIGNS. AT