The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-19 00:00:00

... ..,215.01•11.5,
Pa
. . ~.. .......
- -.
•
" uld real an .-... .“ .
extract from an address published in a news-
Pers--(iiere the lion. and Learned Gentleman was inter-
" Wed by shouts of `° Read, read," eel great confusion which continued for some time, indeed, throughout the whole of
, tthe Hon. and Learned Gentlemen's si.eeeli.) He then came
on
rt tee e speech of the Right lion. Secretary for the Horne De_ -
pnt(Laughter, and confusion.) He had attentively
listened to all that had fallen from that Right Hon. Gentle-
man, and he derived as all who heard him must have derived
the highest satisfaction in the exercise of those talents
with which the Right lion. Gentleman was blessed.—(Laugh-
ter, cheers, and much confusion.) He (Mr. Law) had been
about to read an extract from an address of the Right lion.
Gentleman, but it seemed that the House would not allow him.
--(Cheers and laughter.) His Right Hon. Friend near him
(N r. Law) filled an important position in the Conservative
Pasty when that
party was in Opposition ; and he did not
lio
tt* that the Right- -Hon. Baronet had treated that Right
„n. and Learned Gentleman in a very graceful manuer. He
Ir' Law) had been unable to make clear the various points
of his address, in consequence of the continued interruptions
with which he had been met.—( Cheers, laughter, and much
confusion) He would, therefore, most cordially support the
Proposition of his Hon. Friend the Member from Newcastle,
tthat that Bill be read that (lay six months—that it be laid on
a the table, and merged under the petitions of
he
t
h PecPle that it be entwined and folded in
e embrace of its twin-brother, the Jewish Disabilities Bill.;
ttte.d then that it may, if they desire it, be revived and !•esustri,ie-
ae!l by the fostering care of its teal parents and guardians.
et
Whigs, the Gentlemen opposite. They alone could, wit
anyteteceonsci.entious scruples, engraft this measure on a Protea-
nstitution. Theirs the merit, if merit there were ;
theirs the peril of discomfiture, and the ignominy of defeat.—
Crhe Hen. and Learned Member sat down, amid great confu-
re% in all parts of the House
seghe speaker having left the) Howe for a few minutes, Lord
ur Lennox, who had gone out a short time previously to
procure some oranges for the Learned Recorder, advanced up
1,'!: House, and not recognising Mr. Law, who had restuarriiied.
lhis seat, he handed them to Mr. T. Duncombe, who was s
bel
e at the table prepared to address the House. Mr. Duncom. e
stir," ono of the oranges across the table to Sir J. Graham, by
Thmn, ie was dexterously caught, and handed up to Mr. Law.
throe2nteident occasioned a roar of laughter and much cheering
itilinollt the House.]
tls ''' T• DUNCOIIIsIe was aware that it was the wish of
t'ssie liouse that this 'ddebite shouldld be brought as speedily as
ble to a close assure them that he would
Le eectiPe their"tiamne toe the same extent that the Hon. and
In armed Member the Recorder of London had done.. Lor,k-
tdrat the tone and temper of this debate, c msidering thatman, thehad been no offence to the religious
yinete
eepteat Tan who he might, he could not help nowris ,
opinions of an.
teatese his regret at the speech which the House had
„hrevaornd
('tilneglit from the Hon. and Learned Member for Dunea n
t. Shell). He could not help thinking that that. Hon. a d
'learned Member had done a reat act of injustice to the
te°k'etent Lii • g t If any one had
aopused
thatssentitieers
Roof
mtahnis
Catholicseounry.
of Ireland should
tesvteatilt•-",n handed over to the free denominations. of Pro-
adee it, instead of to the aristocracy of England—if any one
free ros
eeeed to hand the government of Ireland over to t e.
eentienominations, then indeed the Right Hon. and Learnedsed
agein:treeart might have cause for the expressions he had u.
bee ttseern. But he had done a great injustice, and he.
isaeir:tk'e) Only wished that he could have procured for him a
lee - a Petition which had been presented by himself (Mr
Isati:atda etiitemr ilbeatel)
r'eceeded early part' of that evening. It had
deputation of free Protestants from
frl;naltawnaelve miles around London. An
..3
cage in that petition ? Their language. was thio.,
misted to
objected to the revenues of the State beingbaypctre
bon the 0 any eccleciastical party whatever. The o e
+he road Pound that the could sanction no endowment.
hid
Prayer of the Ypetitioners stated that they
thee
eacted conscientiously, and from a conviction of what
toe4entaldered right. They stated that they felt no animosity
BDruptth•ne'r Roman Catholic fellow subjects with whom they
lehieh teed in the oppression, the miseries and wrongs to
were subjected; and, therefore, he said
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had done
ilt he
5 greatligtln7
(Clip:aid they
itliustice towards the Dissenters when
Mevere" a set of l ients.—
% this s) The DissentTers of England hadanatica acted aeon sistenty
/4414 Peeasion, fer in 1834, when Lord Althorp—no, he
Nue, Out Gr—tried to bring in a Bill to pay church-
ware and
oft he consolidated Fund, the same party came. for-
to that stated, on exactly the same grounds, their opposition
hre.ent
raonnesais,ure. and with such success that the Whig Govern-
oisseet.. tiered it prudent to withdraw the Bill, because the
Cheeeh`r3 would not tolerate the principle of paying the
duet
0_ ent of the fixed revenue of the country. Their con-
,e:l4l4that occasion was in perfect consistency with their
liar a„„?° this. It was the payment of a parti-
`eetefoeee °la of the revenues of the country, and
rteeeiste. - "Ie were perfectly consistent when they opposed that
the e' Lle hoped that wile they lived they would continue
to °PPositio
Put n, and be ultimately successful, but now he wished
M . one or teisiatetwo questions to the House and to her Majesty's
leestioes • He was not going to put inquisitive or impertinent
'lmelase-' such as had been put by the lion. Member for
to ~,,, iin.l!tonShire (Mr. Stafford O'Brien). Ile was not going
'4414541e Noble Lord had brought in a Bill whether they
taken 1./e oeliosed it. lie would not ask whether, if lie had
that day Bill to the hustings he would have been there
rcaso uelr to tell the tale,bi ' and for the bestof all
liseolls, as his Hohou
to oteeer would tell the LearnedraHoeusea,ntdhatn the
a man Friend
was the 'lnmate himself b •v
1.1,,!5e numberless petitinon would ask this question—bloVuenr_eds-
shweh had been presented to this
you) they to be treated as so much waste paper e
Leeld they name one instance where so much interest bad
subject
evincd, or so many memorials prese t d on any one
r_tui is ners when they toldsatrah
`4°.J7 0t ? Did they suppose that
to
Aec. same small sum—the'
ee e were inconsistent m that certain persons that
be ann ean'swer to those
in
for
because
atenual vote
tts,Tlooth—and that that would btelieYan haandsw
for thetbsuepmp 1
when
e,;,,, eomplained that th • voteorto,
that
~,,,tlsee for ever? H their present vote was to endow
ele
Baronet
chtt. be whey that ,ow mistaken the Right Hon.
aelrretoady
on this
,tet, The.,
were
should be expressed as an answer
Lord the
thether tole .. e told the other evening by the Noble Lord
wtelteeleasore
atebe: Cit,y of London, that he
only considered
to other
se( tree for the
.ptah e, beeause it was the.
prc°
of Ireland.
1,04 ear, hear)ben,i:fit of thelloinan Catholic clergy
stated by the
aall . Member i he same thins had been
by
he/ 4 the eeh• or Newer k, it could not be contradicted
To
iliestire the
it:net Ministers that had at present spoken.
t.
aunt had ght Hon the Secretaryfor the Home De
hot a tole theo • par
tee ceept any et that the Roman Catholic clergy
wouldnot
hat Pt it, he e Y Pension from the State, and if they would a
e if the jive
uli: net offer to propose it, but he did nr.ites.ty,
tevewoule net en a 4 Catholic clergy were inclined to rece"_nL.
Klee that hue prepared to offer it.—(Cheers.) He "
ei 'Miser e was su •
ea e "Ores surprised at the gratitude that somet Irishe
eiti es under_ sed for this miserable and paltry gran •
werelt
et:lined to"ttleod that the Roman Catholics of Irelanda
thes but tie ccetne the lackeys, the slavish sycephants off re
tip ittolden t e' 41431 were ready to prostrate themselves before wi efore thmage which the Right Hon. Baronet was 5e,t,11,,,
Ira' ley eerne-•(Clieers, and cries of •• No, no.") ill
say no.
tlwirteet w", and the Irish people may if
ti,,
esr were ....
eu gratified for this boon, .
hie ilip, '4
note were overflewing with gratitude—wbY
Nir th' not eo
144 ey wer rne there and tell them ? Why did they
o
Piss. tee ~
~e so grateful only from those Gentlemen wibie
.see!ng ire, Teel' the Whigs, and who seemed only to
hands of the Tories ?—(Loud cheers from thee
Led t:ita, news Chs.) He wished to hear from the Irish pieoapny tilde news Paper reports; but, let them come to
with grabi
tee) d. Re`rietand ,vas to be grateful, and repeal was to
.e
se ere," nail another
d to the peti-
P elle Did te . er question with regard
to the
Priyet,°( Fseeis"'Y suppose that they could answer f
t_me
rseld'eef thZind I•I telling them that they would re useßl.ll
elir• eave te Petiticns, because the revocation of this 1
tee'potsterse i)e efFect of discontinuing them as her Majesty's
Oita 'Pie et t'd they
, suppose that that answer would satisfy
!ltt teePosite ,„ng'and? Whatever the Right Hon. Gentle-
henalee vin„."l.,lY flatter themselves he could assure them
in te he -we"' be deceived.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.
e)
pettedtrt
.ease ant!d to know what was to be
todolie
W.',lt the petitions ? Were they
If .
eb ,
they e WouldternPt and as so much waste paper. in e tt• were _ tell the House to lookabout it •he thought that
p4ttleed,,T authorised to l,fea s ,
kwith the people of
Of til! of Et;7 were n0,.:2e) theseiiant. respectedr enough by the
Itiea-t" the fttt.it dto do (CheeYrs) He weuld state th.at
lined, so ioter"ansents that ever sat, there never was a Parlia-
Weeke • "ely hated and ' A (Cheers.) He be-
is the despised.—(Cheers.)
of the
ithe tattoerY Persevered in insulting the feelings _ that, 1: lien %.end they would rue the day. He knew that the
their they be•teeritlemen opposite did not believe it any more
If tl heatts7ed that the people of England would not break
°Pot;eY Perse 1' thee were to go out of office. (Cheers. )
eal. it that v,tetred, however, in their insults they may depend.
pa() t But he ose rotten walls would come rattling about their
te Pte of is was told that this measure would conciliste the
,letieee°llcie teeland—he did not think that it would tend
et the at tith- the (the Irish) would only
deit,-;C end ofeicm, and despise them, and that would
eiot 'a hionth they,they would be exactly as they were that
Rt, comp% reunles y came forward and had some great
be:l:ted oweastee elan, l)whereby Ireland was no long to be
~, th
etinciples of Protestantism lie waser glad to
II 'loree 4ll4ht Hon Baronet the Secretary for the Home
t, i eht that , • . . . .
thee et thewi e tnere was to be a religious Ireland. equality in
the' "et the :tear what that equality was to be. Why had
to - witelePlan He would ask
sonde . lay u of the Government? .
thee, Neat e,, Pon the table of the House their plan for
their
in Ireland. They ought, also, to see
le --el esowiaetien bills, in order that those Gentlemen from
tile %bet the be judges whether the Government would act up
hot First eel' Promised. The Right Honourable Baronet
lie eorts_,sysinister of the Crown told them that they
, w tilted
authorities in Ireland,
the panted the ecclesiastical
er celes• •"3 know whether he had consulted
, ehted 441(11
k, to 46.. authorities in Eng an
the hritieslin the
eel, of Lore Whether he had consulted
. aut
111,.; lAivi, ", and what were their opinions, whether the
mita .
WOgiven ' 1830 when they were de-
th, wiL, to them as in •-, .
for
he Rood "urtaw themselves for the passing of certain laws
0t,,,,P.9 of he People. If Charles James, of London, and
oesi ' eexeter
erottieete-et se_ . were to absent themselves on this
puree g,e telnee wer.e, he would be very . g
.a , e 1 d b cause it
dap reuern additional reasons for relieving t.hem on a
ts%et eae,°,an their Parliamentary duties. The Right Hon.
•tefel. but he hoped the reminiscences of Maynooth would be
hitter
etett4" be much feared that the only reminiscences to the
etter rep:_ett.aznet would be found in the recollection of the
;Zed to ta of certain friends, whose confidence he ep •
age esseit'eett lost, and in the remembrance of that degrading
pp% ethiersg entsport afforded to him by those political oppo-
°seised "se offices he had usurped.—Cheers. ) He had
Nee that h
the House I
ire, ke, e. e Would not occupy ong, and he
those
ets Word; but independently of those charges of
4:41 who hand bigotry that had been unjustly levelled against
ee2hetee ad oPposed this Bill—in the face of all those threats Zoned beefe as be began, and oppose this Bill as long as it
opt tityee the House.—(Cheers.)
'tit et re. SsELL—Sir, lam ready to address the House,
it!clo-otite?ct, as soy Hon. Friend who has just sat 'Len has
,e'd oh th°'
'respectr to the numerous petitions which have been
0 vett
too of this House on•
this subject, as well as out of
vie the numerous letters which I have received from my
tat celestite
ZtessSettre. ents and others, in relation to this important
eloha lee-Meer, hear.) Had it not been for these conside
67,,, EA vote have been been well contented to have given a
tZ.'ee the n favour of the second reading of this Bill ; but
4(7 . the table petitions which have been laid
Whici:ll of this House—after the various let-
hivce ilers oh. ha.ve received from my constituents, and
hotel,. it, , Secting to this measure, 1 cannot entirely satisfy
rise this me
not on this occasion express my reasons for sup-
ii 4 With ulnaerneoUre.—(Hear, hear.) I concur so far in opi-
t,ll (1414 in who are opposed to me, as to consider that this
Sipqtjilt
.. la thv_ the very highest importance—( Hear, hear)—
etere aelrespect I do not, entirely agree with such of the
deceits "eye spoken in favour of the second reading of this
41
reettee%irs it appears to me, the Right Hon. Gentleman
It tie se aw of the Exchequer appeared to consider it
It Hen. addition of 17,000/. to the previous grant, and the
4,4lttetreen, ki_eentlernan the Secretary of State for the Home
est ,rtet
ofee emed to consider that the question of the en-
to,.q '‘92, Maynooth had been II by the Act
ttttl I cann t with • sett er
to,. ereent.......,s_ o agree either of those Right Hon.
lehittiont tlear, hear.) If it were merely a quest ion
sett ' well Paveof 17,000/. to the original grant, that question
ar , es_or,se been raised upon the miscellaneous esti-
mreitteree! late hear)—a d have been •
'nh ' 'antler n proposed in the
%in, ere , , •as the repairs of barracks at Portsmouth or
Pit lekve‘sTld have been proposed.—(Hear, hear.) It
" Wen Stated, that the '
the
prepent extent of

buildings was not sufficient—that there were not a sufficient
number of students in the establishment, and that an addi•
tional grant was necessary to maintain a greater number—
that there was not sufficient accommodation for the
scholars, and thus a case might have been made
out for increasing the vote by 17,000/.—(Hear, hear.)
Those who have always opposed the grant would no doubt
have opposed this proposed addition to it; but when we con-
sider the smallness of the numbers of those who have hitherto
opposed the grant to Alaynooth, we cannot but come to the con-
clusion that if the only question before the House had been
is !tether or not we should have increased the grant by the amount
of 17,0001., it would not have met with any great oppo-
sition.—(Hear.) Neither can I agree with the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Secretary of State for the' Home Department,
when he says that the whole principle of the question was de-
cided by the Act of 1793. If I agreed with that prinei, le, I
should admit that the principle of the whole question of endow.
ment was settled at the same period.—( Hear, hear.) The Act
cf 179 e merely allowed the Roman Catholics to foutel their
own College for the education of their own clergy by funds
raised among themselves, and the sum which was proposed and
voted from year to year by Parliament, was merely a contri-
bution in aid of three funds. —( Hear, hear.) It was totally
and entirely different from the measure new proposed—( Hear,
hear)—it differed in d, gree—it differed in extent—from the
measure now before the House; and thou .11 I am far from saying
that if we agree to this measure we must be forced to go still
further, and to endow the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland ;
yet it is impossible to controvert the position of the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Memb it for Newark, that, se ;as as
the religious question is concerned, it will be decided by this
resolution.—( Loud cheers.) There then remains the other
question ; if the taxation of this country is to be burdened with
the maintenance of the Roman Catholic clergy, or if
we are to take anything for their maintenance from the
revenues of the Protestant Church.—(Hear, hear.) If we
are to devote any surplus which may remain, after providing
for the wants of the Protestant Church, to the endowment of
the Roman Catholic Church.—( Hear, hear.) That, I admit,
is a question of great difficulty, and that is a question which is
yet lett to be decided. But before we decide that we must
consider the previous question, whether the Roman Catholic
clergy themselves would be inclined to accept such a ineaeure.
—( Hear, hear.) But with regard to the mere Sitate
question which may arise as to the propriety of the endowment
of the R man Cath lie clergy of the State, I must own that
in some respects such a measure is open to less objection than
the measure which is now submitted to our consideration.
Sir, the Roman Catholic clergy of Ireland have many duties to
perform, which are performed by them in common with the
Established Church of this country, and with the Presbyterian
clergy of Scotland—such as reading to their flock, informing
and instructing their parishioners in the word of God, adminis-
tering to their spiritual consolation, bestowing on them acts of
mercy, charity, and kindness.—( Hear, hear.) All this 1 be-
lieve that the clergy in all three of the countries perform.
I believe that as a body they are all useful and charitable men.
—(Loud cheers. ) But wher the question to be discussed
relates to the endowment of the College and to the theology
which is taught —then, I say, that, as a question of principle, it
is a question of even greater importance than the question
of the endowment of the clergy.—( Hear, hear.) I come to
the consideration of this question, Sir, as dioroughly impressed
with its importance as those Members who are opposed to the
measure can possibly be—as thoroughly impressed with its im-
portance as those representatives of Ireland can be who have
accepted it as a measure of conciliation and kindness towards
their country.—( Loud cheers.) But, Sir, I cannot but con-
sider that the acceptance of this measure by the Roman
Catholic people of Ireland, and I believe that its ac-
ceptance by them, as a measuie of conciliation, is
an undoubted fact.—( Hear) I cannot but consider that that
acceptance of the people of Ireland constitutes a most impor-
tant element in the consideration of this question, as regards
the state of Ireland. You have statistics dreadful to read,
showing the condition of the Irish people—statistics showing
their wants and their state of destitution—statistics, showing
how many of them live in cabins without rooms—how many
live in cabins without windows—how many in cabins
with only two rooms, and so going on to show
how large a proportion of these people are in a state of
poverty.-- - You have likewise a people who live in a
state of poverty who belong to the Roman Catholic religion,
whose clergy have to depend not only on the contributions of
the farmers and persons somewhat in a comfortable state of
subsistence, but likewise on the pence and miserable earnings
of the poorest class of the people. You have at the same
time in that country an Established Church very richly en-
dowed—so richly endowed that the whole sum now proposed
for Maynooth and the late grant would hardly exceed the
revenues of three of the prelates of that Established Church.
Well, Sir, is not that a case in which any measure
that can be proposed that will conciliate the affec-
tions of that people—any measure that you can adopt
without any violence to your constitution, is it not at least
worthy of your consideration ; and is it not one which you
should hesitate much before you reject? The opinions of the
people of Ireland, as far as I can collect them onthissugbjreaentt,
appear to me to be that they are ready to receive your _
awffitthetgiGrnastiotuf dteh.at
pletopwlee.uld
Ibtedotehs meanse
oconnctrhlelarnenfenthuee
of the Protestant Church, as no doubt the majority of this
nottrenco hl
Home would pronounce against breaking in on those reve-
nues, for the purpose of a Catholic establishment. It does not
offend any religious feelings of the Roman Catholic clergy,
It is not like an endowment of the Roman Catholic clergy, in
which there would be great difficulty in the first instance.
Then my Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury, who is,
strange to say, an ally of my lion. Friend the Member for the
University of Oxford on this subject.—my lion. Friend the
Member for Finsbury says, that the Protestant Dissenters are
ready to agree that there should be no endowment—that there
should he no State Church—that the voluntary principle
should prevail, as well with regard to episcopal establishments
as with regard to the Roman Catholic Church. Now, Sir,
this appears highly liberal—it appears to be doing justice to the
people of Ireland, according to what many of their organs con-
sider to be justice, but in point of fact it is no concession
whatever, if no practical use can be made of it.—(Hear,
hear.) Let us look to what must be the feelings of the
people of Ireland—if you go bandying from one side
to the other this question, without ever coming to a practical
measure of this sort. Supposing we were to say—suppose my
lion. Friend were to say—let us abolish entirely the Established
Church of Ireland ; let everything be voluntary—let us adopt
the same great high-sounding principles—let every man pay
for the religion which he professes, and let no man have a con-
scientious burden, by plying the minister of the religion from
which he dissents. Why, everybody knows that the great ma-
jority of this House would place a negative on such a proposi-
tion ; and I might say, supposing there was a dissolution of
this House to-morrow, or at any other time, that those who
oppose Maynooth would not come here fer the purpose of en-
forcing the voluntary principle—you would still find a great
majority against any demand you might make for the
abolition of the State Church. Even though the Ministry
came forward and said, " Let us make some endowment for a
small portion of the clergy." Then, supposing my lien. Friend
and those who think with him were to succeed, let the
voluntary principle prevail—let there be no State endowment
of religion—let every man provide a religion for himself—this
State endowment would be rejected with scorn and contempt
by the House. But in the meantime whet would be the con-
ditioe of the people of Ireland? Why if they found one party
refusing to break in on the Established Church, and another
party absolutely refusing any sort of endowment, what is their
condition ? They would find that only a small minority of the
people of Ireland are cared for by ihe Legislature of this coun-
try; they would find that England and Scotland were opposed
to their wishes—that whether it be in the shape
of an endowment, or whether in the shape of a
voluntary principle, that which is beneficial to Ireland is
rejected—they would not consider the different parties, but
they would say every proposition for our benefit is rejected by
the house of Commons, representing Great Britain. Sir, if
that is the case, I say this proposed remedy of the abolition of
all State churches, and the adoption of the voluntary principle
is totally illusory. It is deluding and defrauding the people of
Ireland. It is to aav, we cannot give you that endowment,
but we will abolish all State churches. Sir, Ido not agree
with what was said by my Right Hon. Friend the Member far
Dungarvon, with respect to the Protestant Dissenters
of this country. I think they are men to whom,
with regard to all questions of civil liberty, this
country is deeply indebted. Ido believe, when questions of
equality in p ent of civil privileges were under consideration
that they wero more forward than any men in their wishes that
their Roman Catholic fellow-subjects should be placed in that
equality. They have taken this question of State endowments
strongly in their minds, and they have likewise the strong-
est religious feelings in favour of the Protestant faith, and
against the Roman Catholic religion. But, at the same time,
I do believe that when this question is further considered by
them, when they see the result of the rejection of Bills like
this, which would beconsidered as an injustice towards Ireland,
they will feel that it is necessary in some shape or other to
endeavour to remedy the grievances of that country.
For my part, I cannot see without alarm and without pain the
declarations which are made in the petitions that have been
laid on the table of this House, with respect to the religious
part of this question. I can not read the petitions pre-
sented by the ministers of the Established Church, and by
the Protestant Dissenters, without deeply regretting there
should be so strong a feeling, and I should say, such un-
just prejudices respecting the Roman Catholic religion.—
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") I say so because at the time
when that measure, called Roman Catholic Emanci-
pation, was brought under the consideration of Par-
liament, the same statements were made, the same
charges against the Roman Catholic religion. Roman Catho-
lics were designated idolators, followers of Anti-Christ, and
other such degrading appellations, which I shall not fatigue
the House by repeating. The question of tire Roman Catho-
lic Relief Bill came before the House of Lords. I.have looked
through the speeches spoken by our prelates on that occasion,
both for and against the measure, and I cannot see in the
speeches any encouragement of the phrases so used.
The Archbishop of Canterbury, the Bishop of London, and
the Archbishop of York, although placed in Opposition,
or, political grounds, in discussing the doctrines of the Roman
Catholic Church, had distinctly adinitted that the Roman
Catholic Church was a part of the Christian Church, and the
other bishops used similar language.--(Hear, hear.) I find
that the Bishop of Llandaff especially observed of the Roman
Catholic Church—that if it did not contain the spirit of Chris-
tianity, where was the authority of the ministers of the
Church of England? Were I of opinion that it was other-
wise, it would give me the greatest pain to think myself com-
pelled, as a Protestant, to hold such language and entertain
such a belief of so large a portion of my fellow-subjects. But,
Sir, 1 regret to say that the intolerance on this subject, the
feelings which have come down to us from the Re-
formation do, I fear, still exist both on the one side
and the other.—(llear, hear.) When I read among
the charges against Maynooth certain doctrines and dogmas
cherished and retained by that Church seemingly so repulsive ;
and when I see on the other side the bitter feelings of hostility
manifested against the Roman Catholic Church by those of
another persuasion, I cannot but feel that the spirit which ex-
isted in so fierce a shape at the time of the Reformation, should
not at this time be softened and abated.—( Loud cries of " Hear,
hear.") I perceive that the feelings engendered by tire reli-
gious war which then took place remain more durable than those
originated by any civil war that I have ever read or heard of.
We all remember that beautiful passage of Virgil, where he
describes that, in some future time, the husbandman, in turning
up the fields upon which the civil wars took place, would there
find spears and helmets covered with rust, the almost
only remnants of forgotten battles. But I think the weapons
with which rival parties contended at the time of the reforma-
tion will never be allowed to rust, but they will be brought
forward by those debating these questions bright and burnished,
and whenever questions that excited religious differences in
which that cord is at all touched, these old spears, worn hel-
mets, flags, and banners, will be brought forward, and all the
animosity of the 16th century revived. A wish has been ex-
pressed that all parties would yet unite in the same creed,
and that the country would no longer be distracted with reli-
gious dissensions. Suppose that could he the case---one in which
all contending parties could unite. An attempt of this sort
has been made in Spain, in which country I have resided for
some time, and witnessed the dreadful evils by which such a
state of things was accomplished. It was impossible in a country
like this that anything like a unity of doctrine, and a
oneness of Church could be established. But those who hold
different opinions from us, who conscientiously differ from us in
religious matters can hold their own opinions—we can give
credit to them for good Christians, whether Catholic Pro-
Protestants. Whether of the Church of England or ther►laurch
of Scotland, we may at least discuss subjects with a view to the
general benefit and welfare of the country without exciting
those animosities, which still, unfortunately, prevail among
the people. In saying this I mast remark that I cannot con-