The Sun.
London, England, 1821-04-19 00:00:00

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sisted in refusing to abate them, to z.,-.varuthe payment of costs
to the prosecutors.' Ii e concluded by moving tor leave to bring
in " A Bill for affording greater facility in the prosecution
and abatement of Nuisances, arising from Furnaces used in
working Steam Engines."
Mr. TR EMAYNE was favourable to the general principle
of the Bill ; but doubted the expediency of applying 1:3 pro-
visions to the case of engines worked in tile mining districts.
Mr. I). GILBER'I' said he understood that Mr. Parkes had
contrilled a very ingenious method of Making steam engines
consume their own smoke. At die same time the lion. Gen-
tleman's Bill must be considered as almost tantamount to a new
law; and it would certainly be necessary to guard against the
interruption of (important works On account of a trifling, ineon.
venience or proceedings from groundless. complaints.
Sir M. RIDLEY supported the motion. There. were so
. .
many ingenious inventions for the suppression of the evil that
no excuse, he thought, existed for the.proprietors of steam eat.
pines in not putting it into practice.
Mr. WIENFELL concurred in the utility of the proposed'
measure, but at the same time be hoped due consideration
would begiven to the hint thrown out relative to the applica.'
tion of this. Bill to large steam engines for particular purposes,
in particular spots.
:Mr. S. WOR'I'LEY did not see why the remedy should not
be applied to steam engines in the country, distant from town,
as well as in other places. Bon. Members who did not live in
the country did not know the inconvenience resulting from the
establishment of steam engines near their residences. •
Mr, CURWEN thought-great bandit might accrue from the
Bill, but care ought to be taken in fixing the extent of its ope-
ration. •

Mr. Alderman WOOD said, that as-there were no complaints
of steam engines in Cornwall, he thought it .would be better to
exempt that, and perhaps some other counties, from the ore..
ration of this Bill. If some such limitation were not adopted,
the Bill would probably have to encounter great opposition._
Cornwall itsslf, they all knew, might send a pretty consider-
able force in hostility to- it. -
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR shortly replied, and expressed his de.:
termination not to exclude any particular county. If the House
should agree to introduce such a provision, he shonld himself
abandon the Bill altogether._Leave was then given to bring in
the Bill.

Mr. LENNARD presented a petition from the inhabitants
of Aylesbury against the importation of such foreign commo-
dities as interfered with the sale of our own..--Ordered tolie
on the table.

Mr. CHICHESTER presented a Petition from the import-
ers of pottery in Belfast,
.prayiog that the impending act for
imposing certain duties on pOttery and hardware may not pass
into a law.

Mr. WESTERN presented a Petition from the. Merchants,
Traders, and Manufacturers, of Colchester. The House would
be surprised to hear the specific nature of this Petition: They
had found out that their prosperity depended on that. of 'title
agriculturiSts, and they prayed the House .to grant additional
protection to the Agriculturist, stating that it that class was
not upheld•in their present state of distress, they must all be in,
volved in one common ruin.—Read, and ordered to be printed.
The Hon. MEMBEIt then presented a similar Petition from
Ingpert, in Essex.---Ordered to be printed.
Mr. J. SMITH gave notice of his intention to move, soon
after'the recess, for leave to bring in a Bill similar to that he had
moved for last year, to amend the Bankrupt Laws, but not cora.
prising so many objects. •
NEW STREET.

Sir G. NOEL moved for an account of the expenditure of the
money voted by Parliament thr the building of the New-Street,
with the names of the Commissioners, and of thc wao
had received any of it. •
Mr. LUSHINGTON hoped the Hon. Baronet would post-
pone his motion for the present, as the information could be of-
fered with much greater facility at a more advanced period.
Sir G. NOEL assented, and the notice was withdratvn.
Mr. HARBORD obtained leave to bring in a Bill to regu-
late the making and sale of bread.
ARMY AND ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
Lord PALMERSTON moved, that the House resolve itself
into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. HUME stated, before the House went into a Commit-
tee, that as it was understood to be- necessary that.the supplies
of every service in the army should be voted before the hecesii,
it was not the wish of Gentlemen on his side of the House to
make the opposition to them in detail.—(Hear !)—lt was, how-
ever, upon an understanding that the Report-would not be-.
brought up :till-after the Recess, when . the discussion would be
taken upon it.
Col. DAVIES wished to know whether the Right Hon.Gen-
tlernan opposite (Mr. Ward) meant to take a vote on credit
for the supply of the Ordnance services.
Mr.. WARD-replied in the affirmative, and moved that the
Ordnance Estimates be referred to the said Committee.
The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
The following Grants were then voted
Fin the British Half Pay - - X 737,20,0 0 0
Military Allowances - - • - - 47,894 00=
Allowances to Reduced Officers of the Irish .
Establishment - 2,493' 4 ti
Widows' Pensions - - - - 161,980. 0

Sir M. W. RIDLEY wished to know how this .rooneY for
the 'Widows' Pensions was distributed, and by what rules the.
extent of the individual Grant was fixed.'
Lord PALMERSTON 'said, that the gr, o.rtt for this service'
was at:present defrayed entirely by a vote of the house; and
if the Hon. Baronet would turn to Paper 41 of. the Estimates,
he would sCe the rates established foi. tfie'relaives of officers or
every rank, which it was not in his (Lord Palmerston's) power
to alter.

Sir It. WILSON said, that he had seen a• report in the CA
L
.
EDONIAN MtncußY' of certain. in Edinburgh,
on the subject of the. iolice in that city, in which the Lora.
• President of Scotlande was stated to have declared, that the pra.ce
tice of' signing false- payments prevailed generally in -the Army
and Navy: He wished to know froth the Noble Lord opposite,
whether there was any- foundation for such a statement i' There
was.another practice in the Army, of which he . could not but
lament the inevalence,.withregard to the purchase Of Cointhis-
sions. ' Officers were obliged -,o . declare upon their honour as
officers and gentlemen, that they did not give more than a certain
sum for, their commissions, though it was as notorious as the sun
at noon day that this declaration was. in ' almost every case
i
false: He hopedsonietheasures would be taken either to abolish
or amend the existing regulations.
• Lord PALMERSTON said, that with rpect to the extract
"which the Gallant Member had read from a NewSpaper, he was
at a losi•to know to what practice it alluded ; for so far q°ol
there being in the army any practice of signing false pay hgts'
any officer convicted of so doing, Would he brought to .a Court"
Martial; and be ignominiously dismissed•the army for such an
act. • 'With respect to the other practice, lie did not knot', what
stronger means of prevention they " could tithe, than what was
quoted by the. Gallant Member.
• Sir It. WILSON said; it was that certificate be wished. w. 130
•discontinued.
Mr. HUME repeated the case instanced by the Hon. Merl;
her for Southwark. The case 'was,. that a complaint was ir3-t
against a Captain Brown, Supenntendant of the Police a_ .
- Edinburgh,
the establishment ~to receive pay, which, not being presen'/
they were not entitled to receive. The indiVidnal quoted fro 1.1
the newspaper stated, that the circumstance, of Captain Itrii7;l
having, signed false musters was, in his Opinion, suiNclepte...
entitle him to be removed froth his Satiation. The Ldr"bit..,
'sident, who chose to oppose his removal, leamuSe the ii),..nt it
ants of the place had long wished it, in, his defence Said,' tiwray
was a practice which existed in the army to. sign falsL had
Lists. He (Mt. I.lunie) 'must sliy, thheat fOr thirty years " had
known any thing of the Army and 'Navy, no such practice
existed. , He hoped the Noble Lord (Palmerston) ,could stl
port him in this denial. ~ .
or.
Sir J. 'YORKE said, he knew nothing of Captain Brown,
the circumstance of his having forged Pay Lists:
Mr. HUME begged pardon for interruptisig the Honourle.
,Baronet, but he wished to put him right as to what he (. 17., •
Hume) said. He did not charge Capt.. Brown with forging/
He received 5001. a year for his •situation, and had continue
many years' to sign lists a persons as efficient, whom 1,,,i,
of b,
~
not to be' there. Ile onl wished' to have a disavowal Lord
charge against the Army and Navy, brought by t"
President. .. . .
Lord PALMERSTON begged to state in the rnn_s_t distinct
f"'
and unequivoeal . Manner, that officers signing 0'
would he :guilty'Of one Of the highest offences kno in re it
Army, and the regulations Of the. Army afforded checks,
~.Aa it
dering it scarcely possible for such a thing to be clolle/ -
certain'bly' was of the rareSt occurrence:
Sir . HARVEY didnot conceive such a thing passible, I
the, Navy. , s
" the observations
Sir G. CLERK was sure that the report of
. ,
Of the Lord President was incorrect. He,clid not knowbtlt. e
be..,
about' the merits of the case against Capt. Brown.n; , 0
lieved the principal charge against hint was for hay!
his horse.
some of the men charged in the lists to take care of
not answered
Sir M. 'W.' RIDLEY said the Noble Lord had , employed
his question, as to whose discretion the fixing
of the rates of
Widows' Pensions was left in. , tinus took the
Lord PALMERSTON, said, that he . soin
liberty of advisingarlb r.. the Crown to make
grounds, titherivise the pensions were granted acco tv i''
grantse
o 1 . p,artic,uleard
rates, from which there was no deviation.
Mr. HUME.begged to say, relative to Captain 13,rof_v.nb;:thisi,t,
it was not he Who broughtthe matterbefore the house;
.would take upon himself to say that ,Cap
for individuals Who were not in existence.
The LORD ADVOCATE delineate the ex p
ta.:"nalirown.--
of the charge preferred in that House against
t•• Brown hadcha 401
That individual was answerable to the Sheriff' 'Eclirten:rtugir:' :