The Sun.
London, England, 1826-12-06 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 6, 1826.

HOUSE OF LORDS.-TUESDAY, Dix. 5.

Lord SEAFORD took his seat with the usual for-
malities on the creation of a new Peer. He was introduced by
Lords Howard de Walden end Wharncliffe.

On the motion of the Earl, of SHAFTESBURY,
it was ordered, that no Petitions on Private Rills be received by
the How& after Tuesday, the 21st of March, and no reports there-
on from the Judges after Thursday, the 26th of April.

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a_Peti.
tion from the weavers of Glasgow against the Corn Laws.—Ad.

journed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUESDAY.
ELECTION PETITIONS.
Petitions were presented complaining of the returns of the
county of Limerick, to be considered on the 4th of January ; the
city of Wells, on the 17th of January ; the borough of Ludlow,
January the 17th ; the county of Kerry, January the 18th ; 'the
borough of Kingston-upon-Hull, January the 18th ; the borough
of Camellord, January the 18th ; the borough of Mallow (two
petitions), January the 19th; and the borough of Stockbridge,
January the 19th.
Lord BINGHAM presented a petition from the
Roman .Catholic inhabitants of two parishes—Killgoblin, and
another (the name of :which we did not collect), in the county of
Mayo, praying for emancipation. The petitions were read, and
ordered to.be printed.
WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.
Mr. WARBURTON, after adverting to the im-
perfections which were to be found in the late Act for regulating
weights and measures, and expressing a hope that something might
be done with a view to remedy those imperfections, moved for a
return of all the places in England, Ireland, and Scotland, which
had caused copies of the late standards of weights and measures to
be competed with those in the Exchequer with a view to their
correctness.---Motion was agreed to.
DISTRESS IN SCOTLAND.
Lord A. HAMILTON had to present several pe-
titions from poor manufacturers iu Scotland, complaining of a
state of destitution and misery, which it gave great pain to be
obliged to state to the House, and it w.lB the tuore painful as he
was convinced of the accuracy of what the petitioners stated.
They mentioned that most of them bad been for some time out of
work ; that the long toil which those who could get any employ-
ment, to realise even the miserable pittance of 65., 55., and some-
times only 4s. 6d. per week, were forced to submit to, was like a
state of slavery : and they added that such was the extent of
their destitution and nakedness, that they hardly thought it
decent to Appear at divine service. They stated further,
that their families were crying to them for bread, and they
had none to givo them ; and that by this [misery in which
all were involved, they had lost that control') over their
families which fathers ought to possess who hoped to be able to
instil moral principles into their children. He was sensible that
he had not been able to do justice to their petitions, or to draw
a sufficiently striking picture of their present forlorn situation.
lie was also aware, that as the petitioners asked for the means of
emigration, their petitions could not be received without the con •
sent of the Crown. He trusted, however, that under the pecu-
liar circumstances of this ease, the Right Hon. Gentleman op-
posite (Mr. Peel) would not withhold such consent, as the giving
it could not pledge the Government in any way whatsoever,
hereafter to support the prayer of it.
Mr. PEEL said, the Noble Lord had treated this
distressing subject in a manner highly creditable to his own feel-
ings, and to his character as representative of the county where
this wretchedness more particularly prevailed. He had no objec-
tion to the present petition being received, In order that it might
be referred to the Committee which should be appointed to take
this subject into consideration.
The petition was then read, and ordered to be printed.
Mr. R. MARTIN presented a petition from ele-
ven Protestant inhabitants of the parish of Kilcummin, in the
county of Galway, . praying for Catholic Emancipation. The
Hon. Member also presented another petition to the like effect
from 1,500 Catholic inhabitants of the same parish. .These peti-
tions were severally read and ordered to be printed.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY had a petition, which he
believed would he as little open to dispute as any which could be
presented. It was a petition complaining of the uncertainty of
the law, and he conceived it was peculiarly appropriate on the
present occasion, when joint stock companies were just about to
be brought under consideration. The petition was then read and
ordered to he printed,
Colonel TOR RENS gave notice that he should
on the first open day after.the recess, bring forward a bill for the
pacification of Ireland.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR. moved for a return of the
number of persons who had taken the benefit of the. Insolvent Act
between the Ist day of December, 1824, amid the Ist day of De-
cember, 1826, distinguishing the number who had 'been dis-
charged in each year, and the umber remetuded.—The return was
ordered.
Mr. H. GRANT, as he saw the Secretary for Ire-
land in his place, would take the liberty of asking hint if it was
proposed, after the holidays, to make any alteration in the Irish
Act SS Geo. lli. c. 21, regarding the Sheriffs of Ireland, the ap-
pointment cif Sheriffs for Dublin, and their clerks.
Mr. GOULBURN could not at this moment an-
swer the Hoe. Member's inquiry, as the matter was now under
the consideration of those who were competent to decide on it.
Mr. G. SMITH presented a petition from some
town in the county of Mayo, praying for Catholic Emancipation.
The petition was ordered to lie on the table
Col. DAVIES gave notice that he would, on a tit-
ture day, move, that previous to the estimates being voted, they
should be referred to a committee up stairs.
Sir T. D. ACLAND gave notice that he should,
to-morrow, move fur the production of certain correspondeOce
be-
tween his Majesty's Government and Foreign Powers on the sub-
ject of the slave trade.

JOINT STOCK SCHEMES.
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN presented a petition
from Roger Flattery, relating, he said, to a subject which would
that night be brought under discussion. The petitioner had been
a Civil Engineer in Dublin, and coming over to London, had
some overtures made to him by several pe.IIOAS,• amongst others
by Members of Parliament, respecting certain mines; and that a
Joint Stock Company was formed for working the same mines—
that the works cost only 6,000/., and that 10,0001. were charged
to the public, whereby a great loss was sustained.
After the petition had been read and ordered to lie on the table,
WAITHMAN moved that it be printed.
Mr. I3IWGDEN, in general, was in favour of
Printing petitions ; but in this case, he thought it unfair to al-
low a statement to be embodied in print, and placed in the records
of the House, which was wholly false. The petitioner states that
overtures had been made to him by several Members of the
House. Now. the fact was, that only two Members of the House
had been confessedly implicated in this particular concern ; and
one of them, he could stet namely, himself (as was recently put
beyond all doubt
Flattery. ), had had no emninunication whatever with 311..
The
question was then put, that the petition be printed, when
two voices were against it.
The SPEAKER wits about to divide the House, but
ROGI EN
Mr. B 3 rose and said, he should_ not
bate the sense of the House upon the question.
The petition was then ordered to be printed.
pP
Mr. WAITHMAN next
resented a etinon from
certain Shareholders of theArigna Mining Joint Stock Company,
complaining of the misconduct of the Directors, through whose
means the sum of 25,000/. was charged for mines, which really
cost but 10,0001., the difference being
other
h heerro :ntn:B
anll
fraudulent transfers made for the puriose
received, they stated that the followingi e
were"mitred by the per-
sons whose names were attached to them
respectively :—Sir W.
Congreve, 2,500/. ; J. Brogden, Esq., 1,0474; J. Dent, Esq.'

1,0471. ; J. Clarke, Esq., 1,0411. ; H. Clarke, Esq., 1,047/. ;
J. AlTean, Esq., 1,047/., &e.

The petition was then brought up and partly read.
Mr. BROGDEN desired that the na►nes of the
subscribers should be read. •

The Clerk then read the names of Wm. Clark, J. Mitchell,
J. Bernol,. and Fred. Soubisson,
Mr. BROGDEN said he had but one remark to
make respecting this petition. He believed it had been carried
about with great anxiety for the purpose, of signatures; but the
House would draw its conclusion frown the circumstances that,
although great activity had been used, and though the number of
shareholders amounted to between two and three hundred, yet net
more than four were got to affix their names to this statement.
He believed also, -that the worthy Alderman himself had been
pretty active in looking for signatures. At least, he knew of one
party who had been applied to for his signature, and he was re-
quested not to delay about it, at it was intended to have it sent to
Mr. Waithman before four o'cklek. One of the four persons who
signed this petition wag. Mr. Clark, the Gentleman who boasted
that lie was Mr. Clark without an e to his name, to distinguish him
from the two other Mr. Clarkes. This person had made himself
very active in these Joint Stock transactions, and was portico-
lady forward in accusing,him (Mr. B.)
Mr. WAITHMAN.--It mattered .'very little
whether the petition was signed by four or four hundred, provided
only that the contents were true. He denied having asked for any
signatures.

T • • • The been read; on the motion that it be printed,
Mr. It. MARTIN expressed a hope that if the pe-
tition were printed, the names of the persons subscribing it would
also be printed with it. _ _

Mr. BROGDEN valued very much the kimi in-
tentions of his Hon. Friend, but knowing very well the value of
publishing these petitions, and that it was, in fact, the cheapest
mode of circulating information the House could adopt, yet he was
disposed to think that it would he impolitic to stop the printing of
this petition without the names. He trusted, therefore, that his
Hon. Friend would withdraw his motion.

Mr-. MARTIN assented, and the petition was or-
dered to be printed.
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN had another peti-
tion to present to the House. It was from from several electors of
the borough of Sodbury, and complained of grievances generally,
andi n particular of the deprivation of a representative in the per-
son of Mr. J. Wilk*, who, they stated, having been involved in
various Joint Stock transactions, and being unable to establish his
qualification, had not yet taken his seat.
(The charges in the petition were more extensive, and more
strongly described, than we have stated them.)
The petition having been read, on the motion that it he printed.
Mr. MARTIN, in moving for the printing of the
names attached to the former petition, meant to cast no aspersions
on those Gentlemen. He only wished that as the accusation was
circulated, the accusers' names should also be published, in order
that if they were respectable, their respectability might be made
clear—and if otherwise, that the,ti•uth should he known.
Mr. WYNN did not know how they could receive
these accusations without notice being given to the party com-
plained against. •
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN withdrew his mo-
tion for printing the petition. It was then ordered to lie no
the table. , „

ARIGNA MINING COMPANY. 1 '
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN said, he laboured
under considerable difileulty in bfinging forward the motion, of
which be had given notice for that evening. If he were to bring
forward a motion upon which Hon. Gentlemen present could feel
no observations personal to themselves, he should feel no such
difficulty; but it was impossible to enter upon this subject with-
out making allusions and remarks which must not only be felt by
Hon. Members themselves, but also create a considerable serisa•
tion amongst their tliends. lie wished it, however, to be under-
stood, that in the observations which he felt it his duty to make,
it was not his intention to confine himself to one individual, or
any number of individuals; and here he begged to set himself
right with an lion. Gentleman opposite, as he (Mr. Weidman)
felt that he had not been fairly dealt with in being called upon to
come forward_ with a specific charge against that Gentleman (Mr.
Brogdin). Indeed, he felt that, upon a subject of such magnitude,
it would be invidious to bring a direct charge against any one Mem-
her of that House. The only reason why he alluded mere per..
?tonally to the Hon. Gentleman, was, because he had for some time
held an important office in the appointment of that bony, and
because he was again to be proposed to till it. Feeling this, and
knowing from public report that the Hon. Gendemaii' had been
connected arid mixed up with some Companies of a questionable
nature, he thought an inquiry ought to take place previously to
his re-appointment to his office. But his views did not rest here
he looked higher ; lie wished to have the whole question of Joint
Stock Companies inquired into, both as they regarded the inte-
rests of the public, and the interests, and honour, and character of
that House. It was with this view, and with this view only, that
he meant to4eriug the general question under the consideration of
the House. In looking to the circumstances which took place
within the last two years, it was impossible, even for the most
clear-sighted persons, to form more than an imperfect idea of whet
had been done. Indeed, many Hon. Members were, up to this
moment, ignorant of the extent and variety of the transactions
which had taken place in that period.. Gentlemen who resided
for the most part in the country, and young Members who had riot
turned their minds to that subject, would be surprised to learn,
that in the course of the last two or three
years no lees than
600 Joint Stock Companies had been brought out, requiring a
capital of 500,000,000/. and upwards, to carry them into effect.
Now, he spoke rather confidently upon this subject, as he eves
not without authority fur his assertions. The House must he
aware, that an inquiry, such u that into which he had been oblig-
ed to enter, could not be made without much labour, in order to
find out the different Companies, the Directors and Mauagers
of them; their various objects, the deposits paid upon them,
the premiums to which they bad severally risen, and their
present value, Sac. Sec. But it was impoesible that he could
have gone throng,' such an inquiry without aid ; he had re-
ceived much assistance, anti he trusted that the evidence ob-
tained was in such a state of forwardness as to be in a short
time laid before the public. When he (totted that 600 Joint
titock Companies had come lout within a certain period, he
wished it to be understood that many of them vanished almost
immediately, not, however, before some money had been ob-
tained for the shares in very many instances ; and in those
OURS the parties suffering could obtain no redress, beenuee the
transactions were in themselves illegal. But there were now
before the public more than three hundred Joint Stock Com
panics of various kinds, of which many were engaged,
or to be engaged, in British or Foreign Mining ; these alone
taking a capital of 25,000,000/. to carry them into effect, This
was enough to show the House the immense sums which had been
abstracted from circulation, and which, he ventured to ailed,
contributed more to the severe pressure of distress which they had
all felt, than the war, or any other circumstance to which that
distress had been ascribed. It was, throughout, a system of delu-
sion and fraud, practised upon the week and credulous by the
artful and designing. In Mining (he spoke in round numbers,
and only upon a calculation made three weeks since, but differing
—no doubt, from the incessant fluctuation—from the prices of
the present day); but in mining alone there were, as he had al-
ready /Awed, Companies requiring a capital of 25,000,0001.,
and upon which payments to the amount of 5,200,000/. had been
already made. Adding to this a rough average of the other
payments on shares, which he Would take at 11;000,000/.
it would make a total of 14,200,000/. Now the present
value of these shares, 'if indeed, they could at all he
sold, was 2,400,000/. ; so that in the event of such
a sale, there would be me clear loss to the public of
12,000,000/., or thereabouts. The House would from this
form some idea of what the total hats to the public must be. it
might be said that this money WAS not all 104 by one description
of people, and that all the shares had not been sold. But there was
the mischief; some of the shares had been kept hack on purpose
to give a fictitious value to the others. It was in this that the
trickery of the transactions conoisted• If a Mill bought a lottery
ticket, and wished to gamble in that way, he knew what he was
about:; he felt that he was risk.ing2oo. for about I Os., and that a part
ga to Government, but here was gambling •
of the moneyed lost woidd
ofa different description—gambling where a man must lose with-
out the chance of gaining. It might be said that this money only

changed hands ; but it should be remembered, that if shares were
declared at one time worth IOU!., that 100/. might be succes-
sively lost by ten different people. Again, it was said that the
present holders of shares were the losers. This was not the fact;
on the contrary, it not uefrequently happened that persons-sold
when shares were at a great price—say 1,2004 or 1,400/. each—
and bought in again when they had reached their greeted de-
pression, perhaps 40/. or 50/. ; and in thin way they were in
many instances the present holders. lu some cases, tuo, where
persons had paid so much as 14,000/. they were cut off from being
shareholders, in consequence of not having paid the third deposit;
and in addition to this there has been a loss of SO,OOO/. in the Shape
of premiums. True, said several persons; .but it is of little con-
sequence, as the money taken out of the pockets of one set of
persons has found its way into the pockets of another set; and
so, as a national matter, there is no loss. But if he understood
any thing of Government, it was the duty of the Legislature to pro-
tect the foolish and the simple, the silly and the ignorant, against
the arts and insidious devices of the crafty and the knavish. Ile
had.one further observation to make before he left this part of the
subject; supposing an average were struck of the I'2" millions,
• supposing it were taken at only half that amount, it was to be re-
collected that the work of gambling was going on every day and
hour. Sometimes shares rose rapidly, and fell as suddenly in the
course of twenty-four hours, so that the system was carried to an
enormous and incalculable extent, spreading over four, five, or six
millions of money. He had left out of his calculation, perhaps,
two or three hundred other Joint Stock Companies, probably of a
worse description, but, separately, not of much magnitude or
im-
portance. His object was to examine the injury the system had
produced ; and he called upon upon the House to enter upon an in-
quiry into the nature and origin of the Companies, as a part of its
public duty. If no satisfaction could be afforded !Or the injuryal-
wady sustained, it was time, at least, to look round upon the dis-
tressing scene, and to consider of tame measure of security and
protection for the future.—(Hear, hear. )—lt was not his intention
to enter minutely into the great variety of schemes which bad
recently been brought forward; if he confined himself only to a
very few of the many which were of the same nefarious character,
he hoped it would be sufficient to induce the House to acquiesce in
his motion. Before he went into this branch of the subject, he
wished to state that the same individuals were iu many instances
connected with a vast number of projects; their motives were
certainly laudable, if their own assertions were to be taken undis-
puted; charity, benevolence, compassion for distress, seemed to be
unbounded ; and with the view of promoting only the general
happiness and weltiure of mankind, they had contrived these under-
takings. Persons of rank, Members of both Houses of Mlle-
ment, load been prevailed upon to lend their names and support,
and, no doubt, their intentions were equally humane and disinte-
rested. About a deeen or fifteen individuals formed the Members
of a much greater number of undertakings; one was a Director
in this Company, an Auditor in that, and a Banker in a third,
and so they rung the changes between them. There were two
Mining Companies, whose deposits, losses, &c. could not be stated
at less than a million and a half each ; one of these was the
Pasco-Peruvian, regarding which there had formerly been some
discussion in that House. It was instituted by the same par-
ties who originated
.several Gas Companies—the Equitable
Loan Company, and the Arigna Mining Company ; and they
were all put in motion at the sate time. The Pasco-Peruvian
Shares came out at 16 per cent. premium, and some of the
nawspapers called the parties who gave it fools, which pro-
duced a most indignant reply from the Directors, showing that
the shares were of almost incalculable value, and that the under-
taking held out the most promising prospects. Nevertheless this
Company had come to its end : and none of the pompous descrip-
tions and promising prospects had been realised; others were
either thinking of their last moments or were breathing their last
gasp, and„ people begun to be aware how ridiculously they had
been deluded. The Pasco Peruvian Shares, on'which 6!. had
been paid, were brought out at 16 per cent. premium, and they
rose to 493 per cent. premium. Up to the present moment ISt.
had been paid, and that, added to 49/ made 64/. ; yet whet
considered the ulnal worth of the shares at this day in the mar-
ket ! Only 1/. lbs.—(Hear.)—Ten thousand shares were issued,
which, if sold at 641. each, would poultice 640,000!. ; and de-
ducting the supposed value of the shares at present, the net loss
would amount to more than 620,000/. The Imperial Gas Company
was under the auspices of the same individuals, and the concern was
probably carried on in the same counting-house. It belonged
also to several others, regarding which a little scrutiny would
occasion curious disclosures. One of them was the Arigna Min-
ing CoMpany, the amount and extent of which was extremely
small, compared with its companions, but the Directors of it
were most assuredly not hehind-hand in their mal-practices. There
were 6,000 shares of 601. each, upon which a deposit was made of
5/. per share. They rapidly ascended from 4 per cent. to 18 per
cent. premium, and in one day oily they advanced from 8 or 10 to
24, falling again to .2.2 Whether this extraordinary variation could
be produced without some trick or contrivance on the part of the Di-
rectors, be left the House to decide. The gross amount paid upon the
shares was 72,000/., the premiums were 150,000/, and the loss
upon the project about 200,000/. What had been dune with the
shares was not exactly known, but the Petition he had this
night laid upon the table threw some light upon the question,
grounded upon documents sworn to by the parties. It was his
wish, in adverting to this Company, if possible, entirely to avoid
alluding to an Honourable Member who had been unfortunately
implicated with it; but after all that had already passed, arid
after the mum in which he (Mr. Waithman) load been urged,
it was hardly possible for him so to manage the subject as wholly
to overlook him. It would, however, as he had once before re-
'nuked, bean act of grievous injustice to that lion. Gentleman
if lie alone were-eingled out, when others were at least equally, if
not more culpablo---(Hear, hear). He believed in his conscience,
that even if the Intuit were willing to do its duty by going seri.
moody into the enquiry, nothing could be effectually done if Mi-
nisters did not give it their countenance if they did concur, the
investigation would doubtless lead to disclosures which would ren-
der it impossible for several individuals to hold their seats in Par-

Lament. In whltt he bad said respecting the conduct of one
Honourable Member, on a former night, he meant no more than
to oppose the motion that he should take the Chair of the Com-
mittees until he had an opportunity of repelling certain charges.
Even taking his own statement, and giving it the fullest
credit, he, (Mr. Waithmau) thought that enough was dis•
closed to warrant the House in pausing before it con.
curred in filling up the vacant office. The Directors of
these Companies were Trustees—it was their duty to manage the
prop rty and guard the interests of others; 'and they ought to be
men of character and probity; in short, such men as that those
of plunder
who placed confidence in them would not merit the epithet of
fools. The Directors or Trustees of the Arigna Company, hay..
ing these important functions to discharge, the first question they
that they were to lie ;Mewed two or three guineas for attending
but %hvealiwnaortei howwe toca can
be ellabler ? fulfilll etahre, trusther ! )-...reiTlieedy were told
:Old
to do nothing, and six or seven guineas for writing their names
in a book, and doing, at the utmost, half an hour's work.
But that was not sufficient : their ambition seemed to have
over-leapt minor considerations ; and hiving received this answer
to the inquiry, how , they were to be paid, they replied, " Oh
no : this will never do—we must be paid in shares." To this
the reply was, that KO much had been recently said about the
partition of shares among Directors, that such an arrangement
was impossible? a slim of money was, therefore pointed out,
and they were desired to help themselves to as much as they
thought proper. Wite this a fit course for any man to pursue?
Did it become a Member of this House, having the care and
disposal of the property of a Proprietor's of the Company, to put
)047/. into hie poeket, and coolly walk away to his seat in the
Chair of the Committees of the House with*t investigation ?
(Hear, hear.)—lf the workman were worth fiis hire, yet, in this
instancedwee,ainltthoimm;rif:ereghfatiedebileiernisuedeyonlaisiin.ic
twAbilymilinitati:l;egt
y,tobtoinwpooevnrecair:rostarcohn,gheer
that no
fraud lad been committed, and that the Hon. Gentleman had
and whether the 1047/. were derived from division
to the extent of )5,000/., or from the sale of shares,
in a
made no difference. The Petitioners, whose case he bed just
laid before the House, said, that they could draw no distinction
of the kind, nor could he—(Hear !)---In some cases, the Direct-
tors, in fact had no shares, and had paid no deposits; yet,
when the public in general neglected to pay their deposits, the
shares were forfeited, anti the Directors applied the money to
their own purposes, while the parties had no remedy, inas-
much as the whole transaction Was illegal. In an action brought
against a Company, of which the Hon. Gentleman was a Di-