The Sun.
London, England, 1826-03-21 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT.

----
HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 20. •
.
Petitions, praying for the abolition of slavery, were presented
by Earl FITZWILLIAM from Peterborough ; by the Earl of
ROSSL YN, from Cupar, rifeshire ; and by Lord CALTI101114:,
from Queensborough ; from Clapham, m Surrey ; from the
congregation of Spencer-place Chapel, Goswell-street ; front
Shiftbal, shropslure ; and from Ilindon, in Wiltshire.
Petitions against any alteration of the system of banking in
Scotland were presented by the Earl of ROSSLYN. from the
county of Fife; from Kirkcaldy ; from Dysart ; from Burnt.
island ; from Cupar, Fifeshire ; and front the Corporation of
the Trinity /louse of Leith ;'by the Earl of 14AVOLIIOALE,
from the Town Council of Dunbar ; by the Doke of MoNr-
ROSE, front the county of Dumbarton ; from the Magistrates
of Glasgow; and from the Merchants and Traders ofGlasgow;
and by -the Duke of Arfrot.r,, from Sir David Monet-led; and
other Members of the Farming Society of Perth.
Earl OftotivExcln presented a petition from a pliceln Lan-
cashire, praying fora revision of the Corn Laws.
Accounts were presented at the bar of the number of bank-
notes stamped in Ireland from MO to the present time ; and
Of the annual accounts and disbursements of the East India
Docks.
Mr. PLUMMER and others brought from the Commons the
Small Tithes Bill and several Private Bills.
The Mutiny Bill and the Marine Mutiny Bill were read a
third time, and pawed.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF CONMION. •
A person from the office of Chief Secretary for Ireland pre.
rented an account of the number of small Bank note* in circu.
lation in Ireland.
A person front the Treasury Office presented the annual itc.
count of the public income and expenditure, and an officer of
the Audit Department the annual Returns.
A person from the Office of Woods and Forests presented an
account of the expences of the Holyhead and Shrewsbury
roads.
Mr. DICKINSON presented a petition from Thomas Jef-
ferson, a merchant of London, against the proposed arcade
from Bartholomew-lane to London-wall.—Relerred to the
Committee on the Bill.
An account was presented from the Commissioners of Dover
Harbour, of the annual procet.ds and expenditure.
The Margate Harbour Bill was read a third time, and
passed.
Mr. 11. A. TAYLOR, in the absence of his Hon. Friend,
Mr. Latnbton, whose illness prevented him from attending in
the House, presented a petition from Sunderland and Bishop.
Wearmouth, praying for the abolition of Slavery in the Went.
Indies.
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. Lindsay, from
Cupar. Fifeshire; by Mr. Tierney, from Knaresbnrough ; by
Mr. Ashurst, from as parish in Oxfordshire; by Mr. R. Gor-
don, from Mahnesbury ; by Mr. Dowdeswell, from Tewkes.
bury.
Mr. ASTELL moved the second reading of the bill for
continuing the Commission on the Claims against the Nabob
of Arcot.
The Colonial Steam Navigation Bill was read a second time,
on the motion of Mr. M. Fitzgerald.
Mr. WA DE presented a petition from Fifeshire against any
alterations in the currency of Scotland.
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. Dundtts, from Dal.
keith; by Mr. Lindsay, from Cupar, Fifeshire; by Captain
Gordon, from Elgin ;"by Mr. A. Campbell, from Dumbarton ;
by Sir R. Fergusson, from Dysart; anti by the I.ord Advocate,
from Anstrudier.—Referred to the Committee.
Mr. Alderman HEYGATE moved for Returns of the num.
ber of ships, with their tonnage and men, which had entered
the port of iondon from Russia, Denmark, Sweden, Norway,
Belgium,. Germany, and the United States of America, distin-
guishing British from foreign ships; and for similar returns as
to the port of Liverpool; which were ordered.
The Silk Duties• Bill was read a first limo, on the motion of
Mr. C. GRANT.

Mr. BARING said, that as the Right Hon. Gentleman had
not offered any explanation to the House on moving the reso.
lotions respecting this Bill on Thursday last, he hoped he
would do so before he proceeded with his measure. He had no
wish, after the House had decided by a large majority in favour
of the Bill, to give any troublesome opposition. On the con-
trary, he should be glad to see the experiment tried ; but he
thought it necessary that the views of the Right Hon. Gentle.
man should be explained to the House.
Mr. C. (IRAN'!' said, the Hon. Gentleman had a right to
the explanation he now required. It was his (Mr. C. Grant's)
intention to have made this explanation first on Wednesday,
and afterwards on Thursday, but the House sitting so late, and
he being desirous to have the Bill printed before the Easter re-
cess, he was compelled to move has resolutions late on Thurs..
day night. He was ready now to go into the subject, or, if it
were thought better, he would do so to-morrow.
The Bill was then ordered to be read a second time to-mor-
row, when Mr. C. GRANT would explain the nature of it.
•Mr. MANNINO moved tOr returns of the number of houses
for the reception of lunatics, and all public lunatic Hospitals, in
the United Kingdom, with the nausea and number of patients
therein.—Ordered.
Lord NU9 ENT gave notice , that he should bring forward
a motion which he had postponed respecting the Courts of
Justice in the West Indies, on the 25th of April next.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD presented a petition from Eneas
M'Donnel respecting the Education of the Poor in England.
The petition contained a number of statements. for the truth of
which the Hon. Member could not vouch, and concluded by
praying that a part of the sum voted by the House for this pur-
pose should be placed under the disposal of Roman Catholics.
—Ordered to be printed.
Lord MILTON presented a potion from the inhabitants of
the city of Peterborough, praying for the abolition of slavery in
the West
The Assault and Battery (Scotland) Bill passed through a
Committee, the report was received, and the Bill ordered to be
read a third time to-morrow.
Mr. S. RICE brought in a Bill tin' ensuring the better ad-
ministration of justice in corporate towns in Ireland, which was
read a first time.

....
Air. Hum: presented a petition from certain ship-owners of
Arbroath, in the county of Forfar, praying for the reduction of
the duty collected for the northern lights. The same Hon.
Member presented a petition from the ministers, elders, and
congregation, of the united secession church of Kirkcaltly,pray-
ing firs the abolition of slavery in the Vl'est Indies.
'rite Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals Bill was read a third
time, an.l passed.
AI r. 1V V NN moved the second reading of the Juries in India

In answer to a question from Mr. HUME,
Mr—WYNN said, that under the bill all persons, whether
natives m half-castes, were empowered to art as jurors under
the discretion of the judges. The present measure would be
only the commencement of a course of legislation, having for its
object to elevate the character of the natives and to intrust them
with more important functions.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be com-
mitted on Thursday.
lii ISII M ISCEI4I,ANEOUS ESTI 31 ATEs.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Mr. SPRING It ICE rose, pursoant to notice, to oppose the
motion that the Speaker should leave the chair; and objected
to the votes for education in Ireland, upon the ground that
they stood in direct opposition to the recommendation of the
paid Clergy,
commissioners' report. He particularly resisted the grant to
the Society for discountenancing vice, on the ground that it
WAYa payment for performing the duties of an already Over.
;
lie also objected to the vote for catechetical re.
wards and to the addition of 0,0001. to the grant for the
Kildare-place School. It had been stated, that the grant to
this school had educated more than 100,000 persons, while,
by the return now printed, it appored that it provided only
for about 40,000. ile further thought the system ,of making
entirely at the main
the readingol the Scriptures in the school compulsory, struck
purpose for which it had originally been
established. After quoting from and arguing upon a great
variety of papers, which contained the opinions of the commis.
sioneelruscokflisettlitumeaotifoilit,is purpose, the lion. Oentlem an conelodedand the dignitaries of the Irish church, in
the
by moving as an amendment—That this I louse tvneors in the
opinions expressed unanimously by the commissioners of edu.
cation in their 14th report made in 18'26, and signed by the
Bishops of Armagh, Cathel, and Killala, and the late Provost
of Dublin College, now Bishop of Ferns, that no general ohm
of education for Ireland, however wisely an unexceptionAbly

contrived in other respects, can be useful in the moral and re-
ligious cultivation of the people, unless it is first a•all clearly
avowed and understood to be its lending principle, not to
disturb the peculiar tenets of any suet or description of Chris-
tians.

Mr. tiOULBURN being particularly anxious to avoid all
topics of irritation and excitement, purposed to waive the coo.
' sideration of all general principles which might be involved in
this discussion, and confine his remarks to one object—that
of proving, that in what Government had done it had merely
followed up the suggestions of the Commissioners of Lducation.
Whatever might have been alleged against the Kildare street
Society of Dublin, it could not be denied that the systeM
adopted by that Society had been purified from every thing
that looked like the moat remote desire in encourage prose.
lytism. The Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland had been most
anxious that the experiment pointed out in the report of the
Commissioners of Lducation should be fairly made ; but he
did not wish, while such an experiment was in progress, that
the whole system of education which had already been acted
on in Ireland should be removed. lie would not, in the first
place, rashly abolish the system which now prevailed, and
then proceed to inquire after a better. The Lord-Lieute.
nant's anxious wish was, to have a fatr -trial - of the Pro-
posed experiment, but unquestionably it was not consonant
with his views to renounce, on the moment, all that had
hitherto been done. And he (Mr. Goulburn) was called on
paaticularly to observe, that this plan of the lird-Lieutenant
had received the express sanction of the Commissioners them-
selves. They also wished, that the grants appropriated to the
support of the schools that were now in existence should not
be refused, until a better scholastic system was established.
It was very difficult, in managing such an Inquiry, to find
persons who were possessed of the requisite information. But
such individuals had been found—a tact which was admitted
by the Hon. Member for Limerick himself. If proper persona
had not been selected to carry into effect the recommendation
of the Commissioners, would not that Hon. Gent. have turned
round on hint (Mr. Goulburn), and have complained that men
acting under strong and improper prejudices had been selected
for the task—that therefore it was not to be wondered at if the
attempt to remodel the mode of education should"fail ? But,
in selecting the Individuals who were to act under that report,
those persons were appointed whose characters were calcu-
lated to secure the respect and regard of all parties. They
were men of integrity and talent; and their labours gave the
beat hopes that the general system of education would old-
middy be arranged in a manner more satisfactory to all classes
of the community than could he effected by almost any other
description of persons. They had shown that the principle
adopted) performance of their ditties was in
practice
well asintleory, the best that could have been
tiee
as
sy them In the
theory,
pursued. Complaints had been made of the delay that had
occurred ; but Gentlemen must see that, in introducing a
new system of education, the books that were to be used
could not be decided on and procured without some tiff&
culty and considerable exertion. The Gentlemen who framed
the report were considered the most proper to carry their own
plan into effect. The Government said, "We must give sup-
port to the schools which exist, until better are formed by
which they may be superseded ;" and such was time object of
the Commisaioners. But what said the Hon. Gentlemen.—
" Let us destroy the schools which now exist"—for Ids motion
was tantamount to that abject—" and then try whether we
cannot build up another system." Ile thought no one could
entertain a doubt that the former course—the course which
had been puraued—was the most wise and beneficial for Ire.
land. When he last year brought this vote before the House,
he only called for 22,000!., because he thought it was proper
not to call far any addition to the grant of the preceding year,
until the report of the commissioners was laid before the House.
That report was not made until after the period when the sum
he had just mentioned was voted, and it then became necessary
to supply the defect of that vote. %Vith respect to the Kildare-
street Association, it was not intended that the expenditure of
the present year should exceed that of the year preceding. Ile
proposed to vote a certain estimated sum for that establishment,
independent of time sum that would be required to assist, where
necessary, in the building of time new schools. That sum was
estimated at about 4,0001., which might he laid out in building
schools founded on the Kildare-street plan, or on the plan sug.
tested by the commissioners, as might be deemed preferable.—
%Vhatever the feelings of the House might be with respect to
the Kildare-street Association, it ought not to be forgotten that
it had, year after year, received the approbation of Parliament,
though not without considerable resistance from some gentle.
men strenuously opposed the proceedings of that body fie
could not expect that those gentlemen would agree to the pre-
sent vote ; but if' it were rejected by the House generally, such
a decision would either stigmatize those who had presided over
the affhirs of that society, as having neglected their duties, or it
would give rise to an opinion, and a most dangerous opinion it
would be, that the society was considered as having produced
evil instead of good. Now he would say, that since the Kil-
dare-street Society was formed, its operation had been extremely
beneficial not only to Protestants, but to all classes of the coin.
munity. Let (gentlemen look at the state of education in Ire.
land before that time, and let them say, taking the whole sub-
ject into consideration, whether, since the institution of that
association, great and substantial benefits had not been derived
In every branch of society ? It wits not the mere number
of children educated by that association that they were to
look to, although 62,000 persons formed no inconsiderable
number; they were to push their examination farther, and
to recollect the great moral effects which had been produced
all over the country. They ought to remember, that the books
now read in the lower class of Irish schools were very different
front those that were formerly used in throw places; and, al-
though what had been done might not meet the idea of perfec-
.
tion in those matters which time Hon. Member for Limerick
had imbibed, or perhaps the idea which he (Mr. ooulburn)
entertained, still it must be allowed that a great and substan-
did good had been attained. That society, he would also ob-
serve, was daily gaining ground, notwithstanding all the oppo-
sition which it had met with both here and in Ireland ; and
when the Hon. Member spoke of the Roman Catholic Prelates
being adverse to it, he must say that he had such a permisbion
from one of those prelates, allowing children to he educated by
the Kildare-street Society, and directing them not to infringe
on its rules. For the reasons he had stated, he must persist in
the vote to which the Hon. Member for Limerick 'objected I and
he conceived the House would not refuse it, unless they were
prepared to do away with the whole existing system of educe,
tion, and to trust to chance for the discovery of something
better. Common sense pointed out a different course. Let 1
those new schools be tried throughout all the country; and
then, if they were satisfied that the new system was calculated I
to produce a greater portion of good, then would be the time I
to modify the existing system, and to restrict it within the
bounds prescribed in the 14th report of the Commissioners.
The motion and amendment having been read,
Mr. P. LI; WIS proceeded to address time House. It had,
he observed, been alleged us a matter of complaint against the
Kildare-street Society, that they claimed the credit of having
educated 100,000 persons, when, 'in fact, they hadeducated
only 60,000. The truth was, that those who made the return
meant that the larger number of children appeared on the rolls
of the different schools, butt were not in attendance. This,
he admitted, was a very erroneous way of making a etticula-
thin ; but he was perfectly certain that nothing unfair or delu-
sive was contemplated. It was more titan probable, that
three months before that calculation was made, there wes it
much greater number of children in the different schools titan
at a later period : fur it ought not to be left out of sight, that
the return was taken in tile very height of the contest and
struggle with the Roman Catholic priests, when many schools
were suspended.
thinly attended.
thCaTendtittm4biel:
taken%eri given
e4n9Ouireb schools it) tbuther others
thtuhte
at 30,000, he believed those who made the representation were
l'l'lasiesna,idto however,exist, tl severedtetimot tfbtehre them,
children i liTriej env e
educated was taken
not correct. 'ln his opinion 60,000 would be much nearer the
real fact. Whatever might he thought of the principles of the
Kildure.strect Institution, dislike to those principles ought
feeling of disparagement towards
of individuals of higher or more honourable character, who
unprejudiced
rut:abe) ompi Kr
presided due till overl''ith iat7because he was sure that a body
were more disinterestedly anxious in the pursuit of the object
which they endeavoured to attain, or who were more willing
to give their laborious services gratuitously to the public,
never existed in any &Mowry. Whether an attempt was 111:1111!
to check or Overturn the system which that meritorious body
them tor their exertions.—(Hearli—He conceived that the
institutim.shoold be uplield ; but at the mute time, that their
. itionA should not bo so largely extended as to give to those
tipi rt
out,',,i,;;;,iviti,iit:;.Btlgsrieita,!,,i,i4tittiloir:itzl,,o,nnet
I,tirhantigtuhate every
Was
due
to
CAIabIiSIMICAtS MIMI-died exteusion. Ile thought it righr
that the usual votes should be complied with, in order to keep
the institutiona in operation. It was never die wish
.of the