The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-25 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.

(YESTERDAY.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
DUNDEE AND PER.TE.

Mr. John Waddington, of Leeds, and a Director of the Midland,
was opposed to the proposed line.

Mr. Hamer Stansfield, the late Mayor of Leeds, proved that the
more influential part of the inhabitants of that town were in favour
of the opposing ,cheme.

The Committee then adjourned till eleven o'clock to-morrow.

STANDING ORXIERS' CO VIMITTEE.
The following Bills came before Lord Shaftesbury, Chairman of
the Standing Orders' Committee, this day, at half-past three
o'clock Bury and Ipswich Railway, the Glasgow, Paisley,
Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway, the Eastern Union Railway, the
Tr,nt Valley Railway, and the Blackburn and Preston Railway.
The Committee informed the parties that the standing orders
had been complied with.

lIOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP A.

LONDON AND CROYDON (ATMOSPHERIC
X.X.N E.
'Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. Humphrey, who stated that he had estimate's the traffic to
be expected on various proposed railways, and had always found
his estimate, accurate, was then ,xamined by Mr. WILMORE, and
handed in estimates of the probable expense on the proposed
line. He had examined the proposed branch line from
Sydentlam to Orpington, during May last, and found
that nn public roads, within from two to three miles of the line on
each side. an average of 474,000 persons travel dislances of one
mile annually, at an average expense of 3d. per mile. The ave-
rage number of persons travelling by private conveyance over the
same roads was 173,514, travelling various distances, equal to
976,000 persons travelling distances of one mile, at an ave-
rage expense of 7d. per mile. Of merchandise about
89,720 tons, were carried various distances, being equal to 432,300
tons, carried one mile. Of coals 17,480 tons were carried various
distances, and of agricultural produce 25,004 tons were carried
various distances, or 103,183 tons were carried one mile. All
this traffic was available by the Orpington branch of the proposed
line. The above calculations were founded on the actual
traffic on the roads near the proposed line during
May last, that being the most unfavourable season of the year, as
there was no fruit and very little coal on the roads at the time.
The revenne which might be expected from this traffic would be
19,5221. 2s. 6*d.

Mr. Humphrey they entered into calculations of the probable
amount of traffic on other parts of this, and also on Mr. Vignolles,
Mr. Vignolles had calculated as available a large quantity of traffie
which would not be likely to be transferred to the proposed (North
Kent) line. In one case he had calculated the same traffic twice.
The total amount of these overcharges was 26,434/. The amount
of revenue expected by Mr. Vignolles was 93,6361., so that the
greatest probable amount would be 67,2021.
The witness being cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant &TEA, stated
that he had been examined before some of the earliest
Parliamentary Committees, and had always found his estimates of
traffic correct, and never overrated. Mr. Pear (who estimated the
traffic far the N',rth Kent line) had several times overrated the
traffic of lines which he had estimated.

The witness was then eross.exatnined by Mr. MEgam,,,,E,
and re-examined by Mr. Wu-mom

Mr. Fuller, land valuer, was then examined by Mr. WtotottE,
who stated that he had valued the land through which the Crovdon
line passed The Orpirgton branch would be seven miles long,
and would pass through land to the value of 12,200/., and the
tonmensation fur house property would amount to 3.0001., making
15,000/. The other portions of the line would pack through land
:o the value of 34,600/., and house property to the amount 0(7001
The evidence (Ole witness occupied the Committee up to the
hour of aojournmeut.

GROUP GG.
G',l4 SG OW, BARRHEAD, AND NEILSIIION
RAILWAY.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
The engineering evidence was corroborated by Mr. Errington
and Mr. Vignolles.
Mr. Notman, manager of tiv_ Hurlet works, estimated the tota
traffic which would be carried on the proposed railway from them
at 60,0(10 tons,
The evidence of the witness was, however, deferred until the
traffic tables should have been put in.
The Committee then adjourned.

GROUP L.
POT?..TS,,TOUTH ATMOSPHERIC LINE.

The Committee assembled at twelve this morning, Mr. E. B.
Denison in the chair, with all the other members of the Committee
present, when

Mr. Samuda was recalled and cross-examined at very considerable
length, but notwithstanding the great tact of the counsel, nothing
was elicited to shake the testimony which he gave yesterday in fa-
vour of the atmo,pheric line.

Mr. Gibbons, the engineer of the Dalkey line, was again called,
and repeated what he had previously stated respecting the working
of the atmospheric principle on this line.

Mr. Cu: Act produced the model which he had promised, and ex.
plained the way in which the trains would meet and pass each
other, precisely in the way which we gave it on his previous
examination.

Mr. Brunel confirmed the evidence of the previous witnesses,
giving additional force to his testimony, by stating that he pre-
ferred practise to theory, and that Mr. Hawkesley's formula might
serve for gas, but that in the present Instance it was inapplicable
to air.

Nlr. J ,seph Cubitt was recalled. and went over the figures which
we give yesterday.
This closed the atmospheric case, as the counsel stated, we be-
lieve, for the third time.
The Committee then adjourned.

LL.

LONDON AND BRIGHTON (WANDSWORTH:

EXTENSION.

:C.intinued fram our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

Mr. Leather, another engineer, confirmed the testimony of Mr.
Rastrick, regarding the eligibility of the line and the estimates he
had handed in.

Mr. Parsons, late Chairman of the Brighton and London Rail-
way Company, gave evidence in favour of the projected line.
Mr. AUSTIN appeared as Counsel for the Croydon Rail-
way Company. He would show the Committee that this Bill
ought not to be now passed, and that it was desirable it
should be postponed. He admitted that a central London terminus
for the Brighton, Folkestone, Dover, and Portsmouth traffic
would be most desirable, and that a west-end terminus would be
likewise most desireable. It was a question of vital importance to
the Croydon Railway, as to whether the present Bill shonld be
passed. The Brighton traffic ran over the Croydon line, which was
'it fact part of the trunk tine to Brighton, and this, it was ob.
vious, would be most detrimental to the interests of the Company.
SOO,OOO/. had been expended on the Croydon Railway, on the faith
that the Legislature would protect their interests—he did not mean
to exclude the idea of benefi"ing the public; but what he con.
tended for was, that as loeg as the traffic could be carried over the
Croydon fine with convenience it ought not to be interfered with.
Their present charges were most reasonable. He trusted
the Committee would not entertain any scheme which
would operate to the disedvantage of his clients. The
promoters of the projected line had agreed to pay the South.
Western Railway Company 7,0001. a year, and the working of the
line would cost more than 6,0001. annually, facts which should not
escape the attention of the Committee in deciding upon the Bill
oefore them. 15,‘,001. a year was the estimated traffic on the pro-
jected line, 9,000/. of which would be taken from the Croy-
don line ; but calculating the whole deduc'ion of traffic
from the Ct oy don line, and remembering that what
now passed over the Croydon line would pass over the
South-Eastern, not less than 15,0001. per annum would be ab.
stracted from the Croydon line. The Railway Committee of the
Board of Trade decided against the projected line, and aCded that
the reasons adduced against its formation were conclusive; but
they recommended a prolongation of the South-Eastern line from
the Bricklayers' Aims (near the Elephant and Castle) to the Hun-
eerford Bridge. The Learned Counsel went on to show the die-
,trtvanta7e, th? pr-jecte 'ins, an i ea,led upon the Cotnmittee to
reject the Bill.

The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterdsy.)
The examination of witnesses in this Bill was proceeded with,
and after an application had been made on behalf of one of the
landowners on the line. preventing the Compaay interfering in a
particular point with his property, the clauses were gone through,
and the Noble Chairman said he would report to the House,

.43azNnunGn AND HAVTICX. R..a.ILWAY.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
After some discussion the point was not insisted on.
The main feature: of the evidence adduced by Mr. Dundas went
to show that considerable difficulties militated against the construe.
lion of the line.
Mr. Locke, civil engineer, also deposed as to the difficulties of the
line. He admitted, however, that he was not perfectly well ac-
quainted with the country, nor did he know that any better !me
could be made. It was not what he should consider a favourable line.
Other engineering evidence of a similar nature was tendered by
Mr. Bidder and Mr. Stephenson, at the close of whose examination
the Committee adjourned till to-mori ow.
LE,

EDS .ND WEST RIDING JUNCTION
RAILwAy.
The Select Committee to whom this railway has been referred
re-assembled shortly after eleven o'clock this morning, and resumed
the engineering evidence.
Mr. havrick, the engineer of the London and Brighton Railway
Company, .vas called to corroborate the testimony of the former
engineering witnesses.
mr. Leather, an engineer, who had had some experience in the
working of curves, proved that the curves on the proposed line
were anything but unfavourable.
The witness was cross examined at tome length by Mr. ALEX-
ANDER, Q.C., on behalf of Miss Walker, of Shibden Hall, near
Halifax, whose estate would be completely disfigured by the progress
of the line. The witness admitted that the central line passed
within 70 yards of the drawing-room window of the mansion,
while the deviation line would cut off one of the buttresses, and
pass through the kitchen garden attached to the mansion.
Mr. Brunel], engineer to the Great Western Company, corrobo.
rated the testimony of the last witness.
The NOBLE CHAIRMAN—You were present, I think, at the un.
fortunate occurrence on the Great Western Line the other day ?
Witness —I was.
The NotiLE CHAIRMAN—That accident occurred on a perfect
plane P
Witness—lt did.

The Noe ut CnalitalAN—l learn from a friend of mine who
occupied one of the carriages, that the accident was attributable to
the increased speed of the train.
Witness—No; I think it was attributable to a defect in one
of the carriages.

Mr. Gibbs, another engineer, gave similar testimony, and this
witness closed the engineering evidence.
Mr. William Walker, a worsted manufacturer, of Bradford ;
and Mr. \V. Martin, a woolatapler, of the same place, spoke to
the great advantage the proposed line would be to the town and
neighbourhood of Bradford.

Mr. Ralph and Mr. John Waterhouse, two magistrates of the
West Riding, and residents at Halifax, said the proposed line
would prove of inca.culable advantage to that town.
Other witnesses from Brighouse, Elland, and other places ad-
jacent to the pr,posed lines, gave evidence in favour of them.
This closed the case for the promoters.
Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD then proceeded to address the Com-
mittee on behalf of the opponents of the Bill. He said he was pre-
pared with evidence to show the Committee that the curves and
gradients on the proposed line were as mischievous as they were
objectionable and unnecessary, and if time were allowed a better
line, with less severe and less objectionable curves and gradients,
might be obtained.

Mr. Busfeild, M P. for Bradford, was the first witness called.
He considered the West Riding scheme was highly objectionable,
and not calculated to accommodate the heavy traffic of time district.
On the whole, therefore, he thought a better line might be obtained.
Mr. Charles Wood, M.P. for Halifax, was called to prove that
the Leeds and Manchester Company had broken faith with the
people of Halifax in respect to the construction of a branch from
their main line to Ha'ifax. The people of Halifax complained
very much at the present moment of the Company having ob-
tained the entire control of the water consmnnication of the distric t.
Mr. John Brigg, a resident of the Valley of the Eyre, proved
that time proposed line would be an inconvenience instead of an
accormnadation to that district.