The Sun.
London, England, 1819-01-29 00:00:00

DISTRIBUTORS or STANIPS

Mr.III`DoNALD moved that !het e should be hid
before the House an account of the number of the
Distributors of Stamps, and of the Lists to which
they were appointed, together with a statement
of all profits or emoluments enjoyed by each re-
spectively, from the sth January, ISIS, to the
6ih January, 1819 ; with an acc,runt of the ba-
lances left in their hands tip to the month of Oc-
tober, the security given, and the arrears yet to be
received so far as the same could be made out.—
Ordered.—He then moved for similar Returns re-
lating to the Receivirs-General in England and
Scotland for the same period.—Ordered.
BANK NOTES.

Sir J. lkfactoNTosyt, as he understood his mo-
tion would not be opposed, should at once sub-
mit it to the House, if he were not anxious to
take the earliest opportunity of making a few re•
marks on the Report of the Commissionappoint-
- NI to inquire into the 'possibility of diminishing
the facilities for forging Bank Notes. These ob-
'servations he had intended to make on the pre-
ceding day, but the Member for Exeter not bring
then in Ilia place, he had thought it right to defer
them till he should be present. The inquiry
which had taken place, be might be al-
lowed to say in a new Parliament, had originated
in a motion nt,►tle by him (Sir James Mackin-
tosh) in the last Parliament, not in the hope
of making forgery impossible, but with the
more humble and rational view of making it
more difficult. The House would do him the

justice to remember, that he had Mated from the
commencement that one of two advantages might

be expected—either they would discover the means
of making forgeries more difficult, or they would
find that this was impossible, and show the House
that the only sate course .was to retell' to that
state -in which the crime of forgery could hardly
be said to have existed—to cash payments. Now
be clearly saw which of the two results had been
obtained ; and though, from the beginning, he
. bad expected something of the kind, yet he did
not expect -that his opinions, would have received
such a sanction as they, had found in the
.;;Report now on the table of the House. lie
did not expect this from that Commission,
,:which he must ever respect, as he knew it had
• comprehended men of great science and pro."
found, knowledge, and men of the highest talents
- and respectability. He could not have been so
sanguine as to expect that the Report of such a
Board would 90 far have confirmed the impression
be had previously had on his mind, that there was
little or no prospect that the crime of forgery
could be diminished, or the executions, and the
misery of which it was the parent, prevented, but
by a return to cash payments. This consideration
must make a return to cash payments absolutely
necessary in the view of every man wl►o regarded
the lives of men and the morals of the people as
the most important objects that could occupy the'
attention of the Legislature. After these few ge-
neral observations, he would uow offer some re-
marks, more particularly applicable to the lan-
guage of the Report. 'Speaking in the presence of
those who were then in the House, he should
sp6ak with more satisfaction to himself, as he
knew if he stated any thing erroneously lie should
immediately be corrected, and was thus relieved
from the tear of creating a false impresSion,-7
if he understood the Report, it represented about
two hundred projects to have been laid before the
Bank, all of which had been properly rejected. Of
all those seen by the Commission, only nine de- •
served consideration. There were twelve others
that deserved praise, but only nine merited the
greater praise of consideration, and of these
vine but one was thought worthy of an experi-
ment. If be rightly understood the language of
the Report, the other eight were not considered
above the reach of easy imitation. The House
would bear in mind, that of all the projects
brought forward in 20 'years, not one had been
considered to promise well, and of those lately
before the Commissioners, only one was thought
to merit an experiment. The cautious manner in
which (highly to their credit) they spoke of this
one, proved them extremely diffident of its suc•

' sear'' eey almost exhansted rite Erigi7sh
gunge in search of expressions calculated to qua-
lify hope and repress expectation. , They only
recommend it, not for immediate execution, but
in order that it may be seen if it cannot be
so improved as to diminish the facilities for
forging Bank Notes. This Plan then being in
the course of improvement, the Commissioners'
hope may be attended with some success. But at
the same time, in another part of their Report,
they say that any improvement made is likely to
be greatly opposed by the carelessness of the
public. This he bad always considered a settled
point, as one of the things to be provided against.
Was it to be expected that the English character
could now be changed, improved, and reformed ?
to do good, the Bank-note must have such marks
as would put it man on his guard. The Com-
missioners were aware of this, and far front feeling
confident that that which they recommend will do
any good, it is in effect almost stated, that to find
a remedy for the evil was impossible, as that care-
lessness complained of was that which first of all
made the invention of money necessary, and was
that which was not to be eradicated. The two
last sentences of the Report seemed to damp and
extinguish the little hope which the previous
part might have excited. He could not believe
that any Metitber of that House would be
willing to commit the property and lives ' of
the whole people of England to the success
of an untried experiment. After the failure of so
many plans, which, to their inventors, and to
many to whom they were shown, seemed as likely ,
to defy imitation as that which had the rtcom-
mendAtion of the Board ; he must consider the
hope of improving Batik-notes so far as to pre-
vent forgery, so slender, as to he equivalent to
uothing. It almost came to this, that the Report
had u, that there was but one mode by which
those forgeries, and executions, and horrors now
NO generally deplored, could he avoided. It was
for rite House to determine whether that one
mode should be resorted to ; whether the crime
now become so alarming should be terminated or
prolonged. He would put the supposed advan-
tage (for it was but a supposed advantage) of an

increase of commerce from art extensive paper cir-
culation in one scale; and he would put the
crimes and executions which were the conse-
quences of perseverance in such a system in the
other, and leave the House to say which ought
to predominate. The last Parliament had fa-
tally determined in favour of the paper system. In
the year 1816 the question came before them. A
return to cash payments might then have been ef-
fected with comparative ease. Theydecided against,
and fifty capital executions for forgery had fol.
lowed in the three years that intervened between
that period and the present. Parliament then
listened to the voice of the Minister, and the
fatal confidence which that House then reposed
in the Government was felt at this moment.—
When the nation had borne the worst part of the
shock attendant on a return to cash payments,
which it had sustained from the reduction of the
circulating medium in 1815--when the great dif-
ficulty was got over—when they were in sight of
land, then all the sacrifices that had been made
were rendered nugatory ; because Ministers had
not the courage to take one wise step and go for-
wards, instead of plunging us hack into all those
horrors, to which they would fain confide the na-
tion again. After what the country had known,
and after that Report had been made, which
now lay on their table, he called upon the
House to insist on a resumption of cash pay-
ments; unless Ministers showed the grounds
of their policy, and, by a full and impar-
tial incptiry into all the circnnistatices con-
nected with the continuance of the Bank Restric-
tion Act, could establish the wisdom and the ex-
pediency of the measure which they proposed to
bring forward. , He concluded, by moving an
humble Address to the Prince Regent, praying his
Royal Highness to order that there should be laid
before the house a return of the number of per-
sons prosecuted by the Bank of England for forg-
ing Bank Notes, and for knowingly uttering, or
having in their possession, forged Notes, from the
10th April, 1818, to 27th January, 1819 ; distin-
guishing the number convicted of each offence,
and distinguishing those convicted of having in
their possession forged Notes, pnrporting to be
Bank of England Notes, for 51. and upwards,
from those convicted of uttering one or two pound
notes.

Mr. COURTENAY did not wish to enter into a
di3cussion-of the genet a) question, but was desir-
ous of offering a few remarks in reply to the stric-
tures of the Hon. Gentleman on the Report of
the Commissioners. They had considered it their
duty to ascertain, as tar as they could, the result
of the experiments made before them. What
might be thought of the result of their inquiries,
or what weight might be attached to their opi-
nions, they had not troubled themselves to in-
quire, and, in his opinion, they would have de-
serted their duty had they suffered such con-
siderations to have any influence en their
conduct. They were, however, aware that their
Report must be subjected to much discus-
sion.. Ingenious men, confident of the merit of
their plans, would he likely to think the seven
Gentlemen to whom they were submitted incom-
petent to judge of their excellence. They had
however thought, that to keep the public long in
suspense would make ultimate disappointment be
the more severely felt, and therefore they deter-
mined, before they came to that final result which
he hoped they would reach at no distant day, they
considered it their duty to report, that the public
might know what they had done, and how far they
had proceeded. The language they had used went
to convey an idea, that to substitute a Bank-
note that could not be imitated, for that now
in circulation, was not so easy as some had
imagined. This was not intended to refute an
idea that bed been much encouraged, and, lie
would say, wickedly urged by some of the public
prints, that nothing but gross ignorance or ne-
gligence on the part of the Directors of the Bank
had prevented some such plan from being adopt-
ed long ago. The Commission, if they had wish-
ed to be popular, could easily have adopted such'
sentiments; but they could see no just grounds
for doing so. He, for one, should have been
glad if it had been in his power to entertain such
an opinion. The Honourable Gentleman bad

truly said, that the Report only sp.lte of hiee
of the Projects submitted to the Commis-
sion to have appeared peculiarly entitled to
conshieratirib; He %do►►ld 'not,• however, hare
it understood that there were not . many of
great merit. The importance of the subject
had called forth a great display of talent. Many
ingenious plans were furnished by artists of this
country, as•well as by artists abroad, and- espe-
cially by those. of the United States of America.
One great fallacy run through most of the papers
presented to the Commission recommendatory of
different plans. Frequently, a machine was sub-
mitted to them which would execute notes so

that they could not be manufactured with the
same nicety by any other means. Many were
sent with a detailed account, which, perhaps,
satisfied the Committee that notes could not be

executed with the same nicety, and produced
with the sathe facility, without a similar ma-
chine ; but they forgot that a smaller num-
ber might be produced in a longer time,
and though not executed with the same nicety,
they Migl►t be done so as to deceive the !Mil-
ne without the use of machinery, or of the
same means which they proposed should be

adopted. Thus, many ingenious men wete shut
wholly out of their consideration. The lion. and
Learned Gentlemen had spoken. rather too much
of the cautious language of the Report. Though
the Commission wished to guard against exciting
hopes that tnigbt disappointed—thoiigh they
‘vere anxious that public expectation should not
he raised too high, they did not feel any thing
like despair, though, to the Hon. and Learned

Gentlem-tn, it might seem that they did. From
the experiment they tecommqoed, they looked
for the most beneficial result. They did not

say that a note could be invented that wotilil
never be imitated, but they did think :hat one
would be produced that it would be extremely
difficult to forge. They had selected the one they
had preferred because they thought (and this was
the opinion of Gentlemen of great scientific know-
ledge in the Commission) that improving on the
best, by a combination of ingenuity, would be
likely to lead to a satisfactory result 3 and he was
happy to say, that ever since ate date of the Re-
port a material improvement had been effected.—
When completed, he, in common with the other
Members of the Commission, had strong hopes
that the crime of forgery would be made infinitely
more difficult than it had hitherto been.
Mr. TIEIiNEY said, though some discovery ap-
peared to have been recently made which was not
. .

anlicipated at first, all that could now be said

was, that there was a hope that the crime of for-
gery would be made more difficult than it is at
present. Under - these circumstances, he' would
seitwnmoitolli.:t?teiri)isie)leaeslyts,tli oalet7vnn:allyislm)ttitriiiiilnt,teeilitsnoayeigfteresathtalboleoll:aeltoitrplutsdielnt:raiigtbmhttlefttinichtsre:svaFtotel(tilitiallillbmwebiiseesci:l:knitnieol‘o:lo:c‘si;nk:
stotasteir'tlamsirit holies obte• ex-
pectations(ie-
that Bank-notes for one or two pounds
can be made so that-they will not be imitated.
He wished to know when the new note would be
completed ?
Mr. CoURTENAY begged to say, that many of the
plans were distinguished by great merit, and several
of them were fur some lime under consideration.
' It was then suggested that one might be improved
by a combination. In order to ascertain the ef-
fect of this experiments were necessary. They
bad seen it applied to some kinds of paper, I) ci
i
could have no hesitation in recommending t
,to
the Bank. If it could be adoted with an improve-
ment of the paper, it would be ready within a mo-
derate time (perhaps in the course of a month),
and it would then be recommended to the Bank as
that which was likely to render forgery extremely
difficult. The experiment was now being tried at
one of the best Paper Mills in the country.
Mr. MANNINO assured the House that every
nerve would be strained by the Directors of the
Bank to carry
the plan into execution as soon as
possible.
The motion was then agreed to, and the Address
ordered to be presented to the Prince Regent by
such Members of the House as were also Members •
of the Privy Council.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH tlien moved for a return
of the number of forged notes detected by
the Bank of England during the same period
comprehended in the former motion. He Of n
repeated that the result of the labours of
through six months was merely
the Commission thron
an expectation that success would attend an un-
tried experiment. The Hon. Gentleman and
the House were, however, much mistaken it they
thought that he undervalued the labours of the
Commission. Even if cash payments were re-
sumed, to prevent the forgery of Bank notes
(which must still form a part of our circulating
medium) was an object of great importance.
All the aid which the improved structure of Bank
notes could afford, would be wanted then for the
protection of the Public. He, for his own part,
had no hope that they could ever be made any
thing like a satisfactory substitute for cash pay-
ments, or that the crime of forgery would be
greatly diminished while the issues of the Bank
continued the same. , .

vV
Mr. COURTENAY said, a better note would be
produced, which it was expected would make for-
gery more difficult, and consequently make the
crime less frequent.
The motion was then agreed to.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, that
Accounts of the Exchequer Bills issued under an Act of the
last Parliament for granting 30,000,0001. in Exchequer Bills,
and under an Act fur granting 11,600,0001., outstanding and
unprovided for, should be laid before the House.
The motion was agreed to.
'Mr. ARBUTHNOT brought up the Papers just moved for,
which were ordered to lie on the table.

GRENFELL having asked a question relating to the
Payments made to the Bank in the last year—
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, an ex-
pectation had been lit 111 out, that a repayment of F,,oun,noul.
should be made in the course of the year 1818. The sinu of
5,000,0001. had been paid, and the remaining 3,000,0001. had
been secured on the Supplies of the year.—Adjourned.

LENT ASSlZES.—Yesterday morning the Judges
chose their respective Circuits, which are as fol-

low :--

NORFOLK—Lord Chief Justice Abbott; Mr. Baron Graham.
MIDLANn—Lord Chief Justice Dallas; Mr. .Justic Butrough.
NoicritEßN—Tlie Lord Chief Barsni ; Mr. Baron Wood.
Host —Mr. Justice Bailey ; Mr. Justice Park.
WESTERN—Mr. Justice Holroyil ; Mr. Justice Best.
Oxintu)—Mr, Baron Garrow ; Mr. Justice Richardson,