The Sun.
London, England, 1821-04-18 00:00:00

regular establishment of- the Catho.lic Clergy in
Ireland; he could acknowledge, he said, a Bishop
or Dean of the Popish persuasion, but he
could not acknowledge a Bishop Or. Dean
of the Popish Church in this kingdom.—(Hear,
hear !)—yet, in Ireland, though they existed
only by sufferance, the Catholic Ctergy had
Synods and Consistorial Assemblies, and inter-
fered in judicial matters. They took on them-
selves,in their Ecclesiastical Courts, to pronounce
sentence of excommunication ; when restitution
of conjugal rights was, sued for, they undertook
to prevent it by the sentence of their Courts.
Was it then to be wondered at, that the Catho-
lic Clergy were unwilling to subject to inspection
the bulls and rescripts from the Pope ? The
Noble Lord concluded in a low tone of voice,
which prevented us from catching the whole of
his sentences below the Bar, by declaring his
conviction, that the Bill endangered the Protes-
tant Establishment, and by expressing his hope,
that the names of Grey, Grenville, Lansdown,
Holland, and Spencer, would not go down to pos-
terity, coupled with a measure injurious to the
religious and civil liberty of the country.
The Bishop of NORWICH explained. He ob-
served, that the Learned Lord on the Woolsack
had not quoted Locke fairly. In his 2d and 3d
letter, he maintained the right of universal to-
leration, though he declared, that there were
some doctrines, such as the proposition that
Kings excommunicated by 'the Pope might be
deposed or murdered, which might fairly exclude
the holders from the benefit of that toleration.

Lord GRENVILLE, in rising to deliver his sen-
timents on this question, said he should not in
all probability have troubled their Lordships
with the expression of his opinion had he not
felt that there was something about this subject
which would prevent his being absent from the
discussion of it with any satisfaction, or from
giving a silent vote in favour of what he had so
often advocated in that House. His opinion on
this question he foultd was not to be shaken by
the lapse of time. He knew of no way in which
the Legislature could convey satisfaction and
gratitude, always attendant on a great benefit to
the united people of this Empire, than by giving
a vent to those great principles of political jus-
tice and religious toleration which were involved
in their agreeing to this measure of relief to the
Roman Catholics of Ireland. When he offered
himself to the House as an humble advocate of a
measure of that degree of importance which no
imagination could exaggerate, and no illiberality
deny, he ought first to express the joy and thank-
fulness he felt at the altered condition in which
it appeared before them on the present occasion.
—(Hear, hear!)—The question now for their
,consideration was not arising from the suggestion
of the Catholic themselves as to what was best
for them, but a measure for their benefit coming
to that. House with the recommendation of the
other branch of the Legislature, after a long and
mature deliberation, carried on with a temper
and calmness, wisdom and deliberation, which
had given to his mind a degree of satisfaction he
had seldom before felt nt the contemplation of
the conduct of the Legislature. The object of
the measure was to relieve a great portion of
their fellow-subjects 'from' disqualifications to
hold political power in the State. Such a mea-
sure, having such a tendency, and being brought
before them in such a manner, were they to
reject it immediately--were they, as had just
been recommended to them, to refuse to deli-
berale upon the principles of it, which was the
natural course at that stage of a Bill: but
to forestall the business of a future period
of its progress, and go into a minute con-
sideration of the meaning and even the words
of some of its clauses ?—(Hear, hear, bear !)
He did hope that that was not the way in which
a Bill to relieve, a great portion of their fellow-
subjects—to admit 4,000,000 of their countrymen
to a full participation in the laws of the empire,
would be treated. He hoped the House was not
about, by such an act of instant rejection, to de-
clare that, in its opinion,- the subject was not
worth the consideration of the House. There
certainly were cases in which the House might
with propriety exercise its right of refusing to'
enter into the discussion of a subject. But he
was at a loss to discover what arguments could
be urged upon any principle of wisdom as regard-
ed the relations with the other House, or drawn
from any principle of justice, to refuse to enter
into the consideration of the question then before
them. Even though he admitted with the Noble
and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, that every
one of the clauses of this Bill was faulty, and re-
quired alteration, he could not agree in the con-
clusion he had drawn from that circumstance;
but should, on the contrary, arrive at a conclu-
sion directly the reverse. Instead of refusing to
discuss the principle of the Bill on that account ;
he should urge the second reading of it, in order
to arrive at that stage in which they might come
to the consideration and erlientfatron of every one
of those clauses. In corning to the consideration
of this subject, it' appeared that there is in this
United Kingdom a difference of religion. He-
agreed in all the Noble and Learned Lord on
the Woolsack said as to the inseparable influence
of religious principles on the prosperity and hap-
piness of every nation. lie agreed with him in
all the panegyric he had bestowed on the Esta-
blished Episcopal Church of England, which was
the purest in doctrine and the best in disci-
pline over every other-in the world, and of the
necessity of preserving and upholding not only
the faith itself, but also the form of its ecclesias-
tical institutions inviolate. He would, however,
venture to say, that if it were possible to unite
the two establishments under one head, the
greatest blessings would result. It was useless
to talk of this; for he asked, did reason,teach
them to expect it, or did experience entitle
them to indulge the hope of it ? It was
only wasting time which ought to be actively
spent in unavailing wishes after an unattainable
object. 'lt was the unhappy policy of this coun-
try to pursue a course of confiscation and
persecution in order to eradicate 'the Catholic
faith. So far, however, fro.n accomplishing that
end, the means employed had the opposite effect,
as it was' in the nature of things, and contributed
only to root that faith more firmly in the breasts