The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-24 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.
(YESTERDAY.)

Group E.

NORTHUMBERLAND ATMOSPHERIC RAILWAY.

After a discussion with respect to the propriety of hearing any
further evidence in favour of the atmospheric principle,

Mr. Harrison's examination was resumed by Mr. HILDYARD—
He had got a diagram prepared of a similar character to that
which was missing yesterday, and which would clearly show how
the traffic of the Northumberland line could or could not be
worked by the atmospheric principle. He then explained the
nature of the diagram to the Committee. The time allowed, ac-
cording to the diagram, for the exhaustion of the tube was five
minutes, assuming that the trains arrived at the exact
moment required. But the least delay of one train
would affect the rest, and it required an equal degree
of mathematical accuracy in its working as was required in the
drawing out of the diagram, throughout the whole line. That
was the main objection. In three miles of tube there would be an
exhaustion of 22 inches in five minutes at the rate of 30 miles an
hour, which had not been yet exceeded by any experiment. Any
derangement in the order of a train not only deranged the train
itself, but every train which it would meet. That must be con-
tinually the result, and it could not be avoided. Mr. Harrison
then explained how one train would have the effect of derang-
ing the others in rotation, which were marked in alphabetical
order on the diagram. Assuming the velocity could not be main-
tained, the number of trains laid down by the projectors of the at-
mospheric line should be reduced, together with the speed : and in
that case the traffic of Northumberland could not be worked on that
principle. It would be necessary that one train should remain at
each station till the arrival of another, a circumstance which would
render collision very probable.
Mr. Harrison was then cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant WRANG-
IIASI—He stated that the first train started at seven o'clock in the
morning, and the last train arrived at Berwick at a quarter before
twelve o'clock. There were, according to the diagram, seven
hours during which no passenger trains would be on its way north-
wards, and only a single goods train. Seven hours would be avail.
able for the transport of goods, of whatever description, from Ber.
wick to Newcastle, without the interruption of crossing trains, but
they ought to consider whether they could make arrangements
whereby that traffic could come at that time. He gave an interval
of 3-4ths of an hour between the sending of each train. He had
never been at Dalkey, but he drew up the diagram according to
Mr. Mallet's report. He conceived that an electric telegraph
would not be of much use in giving notice to other trains to stop
at crossing places in case one passenger train should be retarded.
By Mr. HILDYARD—The witness referred to a passage in Mr.
Mallett's reports, where he states that in pacing a curve on the
Dalkey atmospheric line, at the rate of thirty miles an hour, a shock
was so sensibly felt as to assure him that without the guardrails
it was probable that the carriages belonging to the train
would have been thrown off the rails. Taking the limited
space of deviation on a curve of ten chains, guard rails were
absolutely necessary. The danger arising from passing curves
at the velocity proposed on the atmospheric principle would be much
greater than on the locomotive system. The greater the speed, the
greater would be the extent of the calamity.
Mr. Harrison Has then cross-examined most closely by Mr.
Sergeant WRANGICAN, for the purpose of showing that he had over-
rated the traffic, and the incapability of the atmospheric principle
to work it, in consequence of unavoidable delays and derangement
of the trains. His testimony, however, remained unshaken.
Mr. HILDYARD having closed the case for the opponents of the
Northumberland Atmospheric Railway,

The CHAIRMAN intimated that it was the desire of the Committee
to have some further information from Mr. BruneL

Mr. Brunel was then called, and in answer to questions made
by the CHAIRMAN, stated that in calculating the power necessary to
be employed, he made allowances for the friction of air in the tube
and the resistance of the atmosphere, and that the theories formed
upon that subject were erroneous. Having taken all these things
into consideration, he came to the conclusion that trains could be
worked at the rate of forty miles an hour.
Sergeant WRANGHAM then addressed the Committee to show the
superiority of the atmospheric over the locomotive system, and
contrasted the evidence on both sides. He was followed by—
Mr. HILDYARD, on the opposite side, impressed upon the Corn.
mittee the want of confidence displayed by the supporters of the
atmospheric principle, in never having made an experiment to any
great extent, and also the fact that if the Northumberland atmos-
pheric line were unopposed bofore the Committee by any other line,
it would not pay, as it was by no means so good a line as could be
made ; and if it now were allowed to pass, and turned out a failure,
it would create a great want of link to complete the chain of corn-
munic dion between London and Edinburgh. He trusted that the
Committee would not run such a risk, when they had before them
the success of the locomotive system on the rest of the line.
The Committee, which sat till nearly seven o'clock, then ad-
journed till twelve o'clock on Monday.

Group X.
LONDON AND YORK LINE.

The Committee assembled at 12 o'clock, when the examination
of Mr. Denison, M.P., was resumed by Mr. Sergeant KINGLAgE.
He commenced by calling the attention of the Hon. Member to
what was called the loop line.
The witness said that that line afforded more facilities to all the
towns in the east of Lincolnshire, except Sleaford, than any other
proposed line—the Cambridge and Lincoln line did not
come within four or five miles of that town—
the London and York Company gave directions to have
the country surveyed with a view to taking in that town
by a branch; the Manchester and Sheffield line, when
convicted, would afford the best communication between Lin-
colnshire and Manchester with the London and York line. ?he
Cambridge line went through no town, but the loop line went
through all the towns. Would decidedly prefer the towns line
to the Cambridge line, so far as regarded communication with the
sea. The whole country was open to the parties to adopt any line
they pleased, so that if the Cambridge line appeared to be the best
they could have adopted it. Had seen no railway proposition that
proposed so low a rate as three farthings per ton per mile for the
transit of coals, which was the rate proposed to be charged by the
London and York Company ; and they further proposed to have coal
depots at their termini for the accommodation of the public, and to
convey manure by the back coal carts at itd. per ton per mile.
Clauses to this effect had been inserted in the London and York
Bill. Mr. Lang said to witness that as this was a new line the
Company would be entitled to charge 3d. per ton per mile for first-
class passengers, and that was the maximum charge inserted in the
clause. Is of opinion that the' London and York line ought to
have the preference to the Direct Northern, or in fact any other
line, for the transit of coals, because it proposed more general
public accommodation to the different towns. Has no doubt that
if the London and York line should be made, the towns of Bawtry,
Newark, Grantham, Stamford, Spalding, and Boston, would all
apply for means of connecting themselves by the shortest and most
direct lines with the London and York line.

The witness was cross-examined by Mr. WEBSTER on bebalf of
the Direct Northern, and the Cambridge and Lincoln Schemes—lie
had no doubt that it was the intention of the London and York
Company to make the same reduction of the tolls on the Wickham
navigation that was proposed on the Fordyke.
In answer to Mr. Jones, who appeared on behalf of the Eastern
Counties line, the witness said he considered Walker's proposed
Cambridge line an absurd one. The capital of the London and
York, not including the Sheffield line, was five millions; that has
not been since added to; the original capital in the prospectus was
four and a half millions; the Bawtry and Sheffield branch would
require an additional sum. Cubitt's estimate was six and a half
millions, which included the branches to Sheffield, Wakefield,
Boston, Doncaster, and, in fact, the whole of the line to
York. But the capital was only five millions ; but the
Company had the power by the Act to borrow as much more
as would cover the estimate. Was not aware that the Com-
pany had advertised an announcement that the ca-
pital had been increased ; but the Sheffield and Bawtry
scrip was in the market, and would become London :and York
stock, if that line should pass, and the sum required for the
Sheffield and Bawtry branch would be required by the engineer to
make up the 61 millions. Had considered the assumed advantage
of the proposed line between Huntingdon and London, as proposed
by the London and York Company, and that proposed by
the Cambridge Company, and found that the Lon-
don and York scheme would afford more general
public accommodation ; the latter also proposed to make
a line between the Cambridge and Huntingdon if the
Eastern Counties should not. A branch to Bedford was part of the
present scheme. If the Cambridge and North and Eastern lines
and the Cambridge and Lincoln lines were made, a continuous
line could be made, but not so good as the London
and York, because it would be more circuitous ;
and would not afford the same facilities to the public in the different
towns; there was also a branch from Hockham.mill to Sleaford
proposed to be made by the London and York ; was not aware that
the branch was to be continued from Sleaford to Boston.

To Mr. PHILLIMORE—CouId not say if the Sheffield and Bawtry
Branch Company were now shareholders in the London and
York, or that was a legal question ; but should think they were
not yet. The London and York line from Gainsborough
to Sheffield was shorter than that proposed by the Cam-
bridge Company. Could not say by how much ; but it was much
the best. It would be important that the manufacturing districts
should have a short and quick communication with Lincolnshire.
To Mr. BARRER—Is of opinion that the through North traffic
was secondary to that of the West Riding. The London and York
Company considered a line between Doncaster and Sheffield and
abandoned it, as it would not pay. There was very good water
communication between those two places at present, and the dis.
tance was only about eleven miles.

Re-examined—Believes that d. per ton per mile for the carriage
of coals would not pay unless it went a long continuous line, and
under the direction of one management. The distance from Lin-
coln to London by the London and York scheme was the same as
by the Cambridge.
Mr. Joseph Pease—Represented Durham in Parliament at one
time. Is an extensive coal owner in South Durham. Raises
32,000 tons of coal per diem. Exports coals to the four quarters
of the world. Sends coals by sea along the whole coast to Exeter,
and has also an extensive internal trade. Has given considerable
attention to the London and York scheme. It will, in his opinion,
effect a perfect revolution in the coal trade in its transit through the
country through which it is to pass. Three farthings per ton per
mile would be a remunerating rate of charge for long distances,
The Committee then adjourned.

Group It
DUBLIN AND BELFAST JUNCTION RAILWAY.

The Committee met to.day at the usual hour, Mr. Gibson Craig
in the chair, and proceeded to the examination of the witnesses.
Sir John M'Neille's examination continued from yesterday—He
considered the town of Newry would be greatly benefited by the
proposed line, as it had been a main object with him in surveying
the line to give accommodation to such an important and respect-
able town. The expense of constructing the line was estimated
at 917,2031. Os. 11d., including the branch to Kells. The expense
of the main line, 625,567/ , and.the one to Kells, 208,1531. 1 Is. Bd.
To these items would have to be added 10 per cent. for contin-
gencies, making in all the total already given. There were
no peculiar engineering difficulties, except a viaduct over
the Boyne, and a crossing of the valley at Newry. No
tunnel would be required. The gradients, curves, cut.
tings, and embankments were generally favourable. The
severest gradient on the main line would be 1 in 100 far two miles
between Dundalk and Newry, and on the branch lines 1 in 125,
in the two furlongs near to the town of Kells. The deepest cut.
ting on the main line was 58 feet, and the highest embankment
68 feet. On the branch the deepest cutting was 39 feet, and the
highest embankment 42 feet. There were several crossings of
roads at the level, but they were at places where no inconvenience
would arise, and could not be avoided without great expense.
To Mr. ALEXANDER—The distance of the line from Newry
would be about three-quarters of a mile. Its height there would
be 240 feet above the level of the quay. The passengers station
would be about a mile distant from the town. It was his opinion
that the goods should be brought up from the harbours to the
railway on an inclined plane. There was no power in the Bill to
that effect. He was not aware of a petitiun from
Newry against the line. The viaduct over the Boyne was 400
yfraormdDsr.t.hgeThehidneaccree was natsree arch would be in span 250 feet, and 120 feet
those on each bide. The cut he estimated at 42,0001. The trade
of
of
taken
ff tunderhat wouldthe t
viaductakptacbeuntewhequcaoynssiwdoeureldd
be formed. The trade of the town was at present between the
two bridges—that already over the Boyne, and the viaduct pro. posed to be erected. The most expensive cutting would be
through granite south of Newry, and wouldbet cost, Is. 6d. per cubic
hewahseapvreiepsetswedorktos Nvboet:mldabdee
across
Newry and Dundalk
s a valley at Drogheda.
also to be crossed
yAa rd
viaduct l.
r wl2aTh. sd.
.The cost of
It would cost 10,4521. the Dundalk.7r3ivsl
cuesuinesEhe pro-
by a viaduct, which he estimated at 2
the permanent way was 3,065/. per mile..
posed to use on the line were lighter than those
sixteen tons in weight, similar to those in use in Anmerlicgalaanndel
Germany.
The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at twelve o'clock.

Group W.

WAKEFIELD, PONTEFRACT, AND GOOLE RAILWAY.
The Committee to whom this group was referred re.assembltd
this day at twelve o'clock. Mr, Fakington in the chair.