The Sun.
London, England, 1817-07-02 00:00:00

SAVING BANKS BILL.

In a Committee on the Saving Bitilts Bill; Coal
REDKSDALE' prOpOSed ' a variety of atnendincin,i,
A conversation afterwards arose on the diffictif:ien
to which the execution of the its rresetit
imperfect state, would be exposed ; and the Loa*
'CHANCELLOR suggested, that the'bettei• way would
be to move ,the postponement of the present Bill
for three' months, in order to give an opportunity
lot introducing a new one. On the House being
resumed. the Report was accordingly ordered to
be received this; day three months:
The. Order of the Day for committing the Irish
Saving Banks Bill was also posiponedto this day
three months.--4itijourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

FINANCES.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose and
observed, that it might be for the convenience of
the Meuse, if he informed them that he received's).
coMmunication from a Right Hon. Member (Mr.
Tierney) that day,- meniioning. that his stiti
health would prevent his attendance that evening.
The Ot der •of the Day was then tend for the
adjourned debate on ' the Finances, when the

Clvanctlior 'of the Excl,erpier mow(?) that the (le-
b,ite be resumed on Friday next. lie added, that
en Hon. friend of his, who entertained a different
'ict‘' of the subject from the Hon. Member who
was unfortunately indisposed, tvould Oa Friday
pCopose other Ile•olutions.--.-The debate was or-
dered to be resumed next Ftiday.
The motion respecting the Exchequer Remembra.ncer3rip
was postiloned,till to-morrow.
Committees on private Bills had leave given them to sit

-to-morrow.
The Naval Asylum Report was received, awl -leave was
given tArlu in iu a Bill founded upon it; to enable the Com-
missioners to use certain ~ores.
The Bill was brought up by Mr. os3artNE, and read a first
and s, coed time.
The Supply Bill, the Eat In, Warehon,ing Bill, the
Duty Suspension Bill on Sweet Mune-made Wines. the Ex-
emption EN'trut Bill for Winthr,v Duties in Scotland, the
Greenwich 1-10pital Bill for itrrlating Payine.its thereto, the
lilt! to amend the reotlming• the Treasurership of the
ISavv, and the Bill to r•-tzulate P:iyments to the "Treasurer of
the Navy, were' read a first time.
The. hinheepets' Regulation Bill was ordered to be read a

si'co7id time to-morrow.
Mr. BENNETT observed, that certoin Returns made from
the Irish Gaols were, he believed, designedly incorrect. lie
' moved an Address for accounts of the number of persons
i►nder mesne process discharged in Dublin for several years
Past ; also. for the number enlarged on hail; and for accounts
Of the salaries and emoluments of gaolers, &c. in Dublin.—
Agreed to.
The Smuggling Prevention Bill was read a third time.
The oiler's Earth Bill was read a third time.
. The Bill respecting Lord Gage's Estate was read a third
time.
Mr. W. SMITH presented a Petition from Lionel Self, Esq.
• and others, Assignees of Haycock, a BankrUpt, against the
grievance of Extents in Aid.
Lord WALPOLE presented a Petition from King's Lynn,
also against Extents in Aid.
FRAME BREAKING.
The PiTtORNkY-GENEIIAL having called the at-
Of the Howe to the outrages which had
recently been committed in breaking Stocking
Frames, and having noticed tl►at by an Act, the
penalties of which had since been repealed, this
offence was punishable capitally, proceeded to
State that the recent outrages Seemed to require
re-enactment of the former penalty. It had been
noticed thst during the time that the tor Mer Bill,
by ►vhich this had been made a capital offence,
was in progress through the House, and while it
contigned in force, not one offence of this kind
had been committed in the county of Notting-
. ham ; some tine afterwards the capital punish-
ment was committed for transportation, and in►-
mediately afterwards the offenders re-commenced
their outrages, although few of them had been
convicted. Representations had recently 'been
made by many of the Gentlemen of tl►e counties
in which these offences had been committed,
. stating that it was absolutely essential for the
prevention of thee offences that they should he
again punished capitally. He therefore moved
for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the present
Act, and to make other provisions in lieu thereof.
Mr. Aneacnomnts did not rise to oppose tl►e
motion, but merely to say that he did not think
the House had been fairly dealt with in respect of
this measure. Lately, when a subject was under

tli•cu'sion wltiCh placed the persimal liberty of
• ever) man in the country at the disposal of his
l‘itajesty's Government, it ought to have been
stated, that a measure like that now brought for-
ward tvas intended ; and the two measures should
have been concoirent. The representations as to
these offences had been made to Lord Sidmoatl►
three months, ago ; he could not but look with
peculiar jealousy on the circumstance of its having
been so long kept back. He should vote for the
Bill, not as a measure of terror, but in the expec-
tation that the penalty would be most rigidly en-

forced.
111 r. UTLEY ADDINGTON said, that the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman who spoke last brought for-
ward two accusations against Government, Ist,
That this measure had not been brought forward

until the Habeas Corpus Sp.pension Bill had
iris:ed; and 2d, That the infoimation On which
it was funneled had been purpos.ely kept back till
then. As to. the first, be begge4l leave to rewind

the lion. Gentleman, that in ►he debate on the

naheas Corpus Snspension Bill, he (Mr. Adding-
ton) had stated, that this measure was intended.
As to the other accusation, he could only say, that
he believed it to be unfounded. To keep back
such information could serve no purpose.
Mr. ABERCHOMBI Is explained. •
The motion was then agreed to, and the Bill
brought- in, read a first time, and ordered to be
read a second time to-morrow.
A Message from the Lords announced their Lordships' as-
sent to several public and priskte Bills, for which sec the
Lords.

Sir F. BURDETT presented a Petition from the Inhabi-
tants of St. Luke's, Chelsea, praying for Retrenchment and
• Reform.—Reed, and ordured to lie on the table, and to be
printed.
The Wort and Wash Excise Bill was read a second time,
and on the motion that it should be committed,
Mr. W. SMITH complained, that the effect of the Bill
was to impose a duty for business already done.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the mea-
sure Wl5 necessary' in justice to the Irish
.After a few words from Mr. LUSHINGTON, the Bill was
or dercd to be committed to-morrow.
EVANS'S PETITION.

iMr. BENNETT wished to know whether any in-
quiry had been made, or any thing done, touch.:
log F.vans's petition
Mr. H. Anotsororsr said, that although the
subject had already been fully explained in another
place (the House of Lords), yet be would now,
explain the different complaints made in the peti-
tion. A 3 soon as he had read the most important
of these complaints, he was convinced it had no
foundation in truth ; he meant the allegAtion,
that the Secretary of State had been guilty of such
a breach of duty, as that of keeping back a peti-
tion transmi:ted to him by the prisoners for the
purpose of being forwarded. Having made strict
inquiry into all the facts on this subject, he was
enabled to state, that on or about the 21st of Fe-
bruary last, Mr. Evans did send a petition by Mr.
Adkins, the Jailer of Cole bath -fields Prison,which
was addressed to the Hon. Bart. and a Noble Lord
Opposite. Just when -this Petition was.about to
be forwarded from the Home Depaitinent to those
to whom itt'• as addressed, the Jailer was sent with
a message from the prisoner, requesting that it
might. be sent to them, but delivered. to Mr. Har-
mer, ;he prisoner's Solicitor. This request was
accordingly complied with, and Sir N. Conant, by
desire of the Secretary of ,!..hate, forwarded the Pe-
!loots to Mr. Harmer. He Air. A.) held now in
his band a note from Mr..Hartner to Sir N. Con-
ant, dated Alt 23d of February, aekoowledging
the receipt of the Oetition. No. other Pettt;on
vests ever sent to the Office in which he. had the
honour to be employed. On referring to the

printed votes, and the reports of the p.roceen-
ings in the House,he found by these dixertinents,
that this Petition sodeliver.ed to Mr. flartrier;, was
the very petition presented Co the House b.." the
lIOn.. Gentleman (Mr. ilmillett).. lie must there 7
fore say, that it was very strange, that this being
the case, the
,Honourable Gentleman should have
l'.rought ftirWard the Subject in this way. As
to the other allegaCons in the petition, it *as not
true that Evans had been denied the hse of pens,
inic, and paper, as he alleged. It Was certainly
true, that I,eovas put in one iron, but As soon as
this was kirown at the Secretary of State's office
it was. removed: As to the apartment in which
he had been confined, instead of being a dungeon,
the 1011,)\ving were its dimensions,-25 feet long,
IS feet broad, and 11 feet high. There were two
4.indows in it, which the prisoner might open at
will, and a fire place. The apartment was situated
in a lofty part of the, gaol, and conimanded a tine
view of the Surrey Hills. As to the complaint
that the prisoner was not allowed air, or exercise,
the truth was, that be was offered liberty'to walk
in an arcade 55 feet long, which be refused. It
was true, 'that Mrs. Evans was only allowed to
communicate with her husband and sop through
an iron grating, but it was very wide. There
were letters from other prisoners confined in the
same gaol, who said that they were as well treat-
ed as was possible.
Mr. BENNETT acknOwledged that be had pre-
sented the Petition from Evans in the beginning
of the Session, but denied that he Itoo:4 it was the
one which he complained had never been forwarded
by the Secretary of State.—But excepting what
related to the Petition, the truth of all the other
complaints were admitted.- He-begged the House
to observe bow the persons in question had been
treated. The elder Evans was in the first instance
put into the same bed with a lelon—his son was
put into an hospital with sick felons. As to the
arcade in which he was offered leave to walk in,
the Home would be surprised to hear, after the
pompous description of it, that it was no more
than a narrow passage three or four feet wide,
which served as a communication to the felons'
cells, and that these cells occupied each side of this
passage, which was called an arqade. Nothing
,was said about, their being denied the use of fire
and candles. -Evans was the author of the Spen-
cean plan, and though a poor tradesman, was a
literary character. It was therefore no small
hardship to deprive him of the means to while
away the Ii ours of punishment. Not a word was
said about his flute being taken away from him.
In fact, nine-tenths of the allegAlons were ad-
mitted.

Mr. BAR 11 AM had merely to say, that he hoped
there was no person in the House who could sup-
pose that he was thoroughly satisfied with what
he had heard, so as to induce him to supersede
his motion, which s'ood for to-morrow. Some-
thing satisfactory had undoubtedly • been said,
but not enough to prevent farther irquirl,t.
In answer to a question from Mr. littouoHAM,
whether the prisoners had been kept without fire
and candle ?

Mr. ADDINGTON said, that the Jailor had as-
sured hint that he had exercised no undue severity,
beyond what had always been the ride of the
prison._

Mr. BRouGHANt tbon4,,ht this xnswer an addi-
tional incentive to the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Bar-
ham) to hriw forward his motion. lic observed,
that there was a large garden, from which nobody
ennui! escape, and where dogs of the nature of
bloodhounds were stationed, and yet not one
felon was ever allowed to walk there one minute
during the 2-4 hours.

[Here the conversation tern►inated.]
COPY-RIGHT.

Sir B. BaYDGEs rose, pursuant to notice, to.
move for a Return of the Books claimed by the
Universities, and other Learned Bodies, tinder
the Copy.:right Act of the 54th of the King, stat-
ing what Books were placed in the Libraries of
those Bodies, and elsewhere.
After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of
the EXCHEQUER,

Mr. PEE/. observed, that the first part of the
Honourable Baronet's motion would be better
answered from Stationers' nail, while the Return
must be much less voluminous than it made from
all the Public Bodie, alluded to.

Mr. CnoxEn concurred in this opinion.

Sir E. BRIDGES Solid, that the House had al-
ready a Return frnm Stationers' Hall ; but his
object was to ascertain what use was made by the
several Public Bodies of the books they obtained
from that Hall ; and he believed that those Bodies
had a copy of every work published, excepting
only novels and music books.

Mr. PEEL remarked, that upon the Honourable
Baronet's own spewing, it was only ❑ecessary to
adopt the latter part of his motion.
Mr. R. SMITH saw no necessity for altering the
words- of the motion, because, in the Rfl9l:4l,from
the Public Bodies reterred to, the Books obtained
from Stationers' Hall must necessarily be enu-
merated.

Mr. Itim. SMITH thought, that books thus ob-
tained by the Univerities, or other public bodies,
should be placed in their several libraries for gene-
ral inspection, instead of being consigned to
cellars, and, as he understood, rifleman's sold for
waste paper. Such. a disposition of these books
was, in his opinion, quite inconsistent with the
object of the Copy-right Act.
Sir Wm. IBlntaoucifts suggested an amendment
in the motion, but atter a few words from Mr. D.
Gilbert and Mr. Lockhart, the former asserting
that books were never sold, to his knoWledge, as
waste paper at Oxford, and the latter protesting
against the doctrine of Mr.. W. Smith as to the
exposure in University libraries of every bOok oh.
t,iiirtd front the Stationer's' Hall, for many of such
books might be very unfit for general inspection,
the folio Wing amemuitd motion of Sir E. Brydges
was agreed to, namely, that a return should he
made of the hooks claimed by the several Univer-
sities, and other public bodies, staring such as
were placed in their libraries, or bow otherwise
disposed of.
• FISFTERIES.

Mr. Ilot.rislroaTit 'bored for leave to bring in
a Bill to amend the Acts regidatiog the Fisheries
ou the coast of Devonshire, on that put of the

coast ettve'en One Start Kati the Stralght points.
Leave granted.
IVIATC H- MAK ERA.
Mr. I'. MoottE moved to refer the Petition of
the Watch-makers it; the consideral ut a Stic.ct
ComMittee.

The Cint,lCEttOli of the EkckscaUEß declared
his readiness to have the petition of any class of
hii Mijesty's suhiects duly attended to—therefore
he should accede to the motion of the [lon. Gentle-
man, although he could not anticipwe any useful
re:stilt at this late period of the Session.
The Committee were. appointed.
corcoN
_ _

Alr• ID, GtLBERT said, that he had to sitbthit
to the House a !notion of a different nature fi'om
that of which the House bail just disposed, and
it wa,, to discharge the Order for referring. the Pe-
titions of the Cotton Weavers to the c.widera-
tion of a Select Cononitte. There Were, he ob-
srved,' two parties concerned in the Cotton
Trade ; the one Cotton-spinners, and the other
Cotton-manufacturers. Now the object of the
latter, who were the petitioners, was to prevent
the export of Cotton Twist ; and if this object
wire attained, the consequence must be to throw
a:great body of the former out of employment.-
13ut the
.fact was, that only one of the parties had
approached the [louse upon the subject ; and as
-the Delegates of that party alone were in London
at present, a Committee could have only er=parte
evidence ; and the mischief of sending forth to
the country any Report urin such evidence, could
be easily appreciated. The Honourable Member
concluded with moving the discharge of the
Order.

Atter a few words from Mr. D. BROW NE and
Mr. Hublussom,

Mr. F. LEetits spoke in favour of the motion,
and against the object of the Petitioners. It was
known that no less than three millions worth of
cotton twist was annually exported from this
country ; and unless it could he sheWn that the
whole of this twist was required for our own
cotton manufactures, and that foreigners must
buy that manufacture, it would be most impolitic
to prevent the export. But the system which the
Petitioners aimed at was quite inconsistent with
those wise principles of free trade, from which he
trusted, for the sake of the interest of Cle nation,
no farther departure would be allowed to take
place.
Mr. CAWTHORNE S9id he was no manufacturer,
but he presented one of the petitions. He'knew
that in Lancashire there were thousands of cot-
ton weavers who were absolutely.starving. They
complained of the exportation of cotton yarn as
the reason why they could not get work. It was
stated• that as much cotton yarn had been exported
last year as would have employed two hundred
thousand weavers.
Mr. BARING observed that it was most dan-
gerous, where so many persons were concerned,
to hold out hopes of relief unless they were con-
fident there was a prospect of sitccest.-
,He did
not see, unless it conld he shewn that cotton yarn
could only be had front this country (which was
not the case), holy the prohibition of its exporta-
tion could improve our cotton trade.

Mr. Husxt:;soN said he wished not to be con-
sidered as pledged to any particular eonrse, should
the question be brought forward next Session..
He thought, however, it would be better to put
an end at once to all fallacious expectations, and

spew to foreigners that we ate not disposed to
carry farther that system of commercial prohibi-
tion which could only provoke enmities and dis.
putes. Such a course he apprehended would best
consult both the national interest and the inte-
rests of the parties themselves.
The CHAscELLoR of the EXCHEQUER entirely
concurred with the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. F.
Lewis) as to the futility of attempts to push a
trade contrary to the first piinciples of commer-
cial dealings, and the restrictive system was only
likely to throw the Continental Powers Hon an
exertion to produce for themselves what they
could not obtain from.. us, which they had un-
questionably the means of doing.
Air. GILBERT said a few words in explanation,
and the Order was discharged.
On the motion of Sir I-1. PARNELL, the Irish
Election Laws Bill, which was postponed last.
night, passed with some slight alterations.