The Sun.
London, England, 1844-02-17 00:00:00

and
Learned Member for Bath, and the Noble Lord the
tl"le.ntber for Sunderland, that they could not maintain the
„al°ll. and destroy the Church Establishment.—( Cries of
Kine.°h, oh," from the Opposition benches.) He supposed they
tshed that House to represent the
people of the United
e•"d (o• The people of the United Kingdom were not
attached to these wild and re volutionary doctrines.
Tn Y wished to see a steady course of improve-
ent adopted in Ireland an d elsewhere, but they
did not •
f wish to see amelioration attempted by the clumsy work
°f destroying the Established Church.—( Hear, hear.) But
•mal.'e was a third party in that House (the party of her
etas )e4ty's Government. He believed that their policy was to
'
''t tale
establishments—not to maintain their abuses ; but to '
•
by improving them ; and he believed that the ma- i
luritY of th
Ile e people of England were with them on that point.
h was certain that they were not for the grant of 8,0001. ;
Church
was certain that they were not for the destruction of the
ehreeiht... He. believed that they would best consult the feelings
constituents, arid the welfare of the country, by giving
t aeetded negative to the motion of the Noble Lord, having for i
hae..°,l3.leet nothing that was intelligible, nothing that was prae-
411 e,. nothing that was even respectable enough to be called eurutior‘narL.—( Hear, hear. )
roe,: -••• ULLER, who was scarcely audible in corn-
2. ,
.eing his address, said that before he addressed himself to the
autoect before the House lie would advert to two doctrines
v4l h had be
en t irown out in support
of that novel applica-
i'euier of the doctrine of conspiracy, which had been brought to
pew against certain Members of that House; where, by
atiothnege.to‘g.ether half of one Member's sentence and half of
%ad, „ "'ember's sentence, a very formidable charge was
E... out, of which neither Member was in fact guilty. The "t charge
great was that broached that evening with
Ittte c:i::•l(l'inel,shment lie saw the Noble Lord the Secretary for
take a note of it.—( Laughter.) On the
44gth of the speech of his lion. Friend the Member for
Shefaeld, they were charged with conspiring to repeal the Act
14 Set '
tot )ettteufent. The Noble Lori himself (Lord Stanley)
,had
hear t, sPospoken upon this subject.--( Loud cries of " Hear,
eand laughter.) They had only heard the views of the
11Iernreent expounded to them by the Hon. and Gallant
to:1Tb" for the county of Donegal, who, he must say,
ril unnecessary pains to relieve himself from a very great
or, tigt!'t °f odium under which he supposed himself to labour.
At side of the House.— Hear, hear.) He could assure
the°,ll' and Gallant Member that, however opposed to him
Per'somnatight be in politics, lie believed there was no feeling of
call hostility to him on the part of Hen. Members gene-
tr ) on that side of the House.—( Hear, hear.) On the eon-
taaorY' when he made inquiries among those Members who were
st oppo d
gentle rn se to him, they all said that he was a very worthy
hero, ant and he ( Mr. C. Buller) thought he seemed a very good
t 'tired and kind-hearted man. —( Laughter and cheers. )
at
de Hon. Friend, and he supposed all of them on that
ri;" toe House that he
spot no feelings of hostility towards
I-105: lie referred alio to piation. He could assure the
to tn;d Gallant Gentleman that he had not the least wish
his alarms birn•—( Laughter.) He wished to relieve him of
did ttins•--(Laughter. ) He must say that that gentleman
hew se, the strangest language he had ever heard. He said
as hit:lnd take d—d good care that they should not deprive him
eligion.
1' Non meta hie sermo, sed quod precepit Ofellus,
Rusticus ab normis
ing tu• u,ighter.) The Gallant Colonel said that they were go-
d° a
_gvest him of his religion.—( Laughter.) He would not
was
tisluch a cruel thing for the world.—( Great laughter.) It
he oidest thing he ever saw that religion of his, and
laoßh-t' 'Ore he did not wish to spoil him of it—(Continued
of d'eeer)•—and if he might use a little variation, for the sake
1414-anra, he would observe that the Gallant Colonel saemed
Nato take good care that they should not._( Laughter. )
thought one word would dispel the alarms of Hon.
4114 "en opposite with regard to the Act of Settlement.
house het was intended to guard against the claims of the
dead, Stuart, and as all the members of that house were
e did not see what danger could exist in that quarter.
he tr.l-ar, and laughter. )llThere was another charge to which
kritte moat particularly refer, because he recollected its efficiency in
(ileac tepee _the charge of alliance with Mr. O'C.onnell.—
this rr' bear.) He (Ur. C. Buller) would not flinch from
flr -(ll(.,ge—he had generally—almost invariably voted with
Note Connell upon all Irish questions except the repeal of the
Ned • ",_ e was not ashamed of having done so. He had
and hewtto him when his aid was useful to the Liberal party,
the la would not shrink from his aid now that he was under
the oenightof a Government prosecution.—(Loud cheers from
*hid ITP"ition benches.) He would declare in that House
Istale had stated repeatedly elsewhere, that he believed no
inan had done so much for his country as. that Hon. and
!We 419hentlernan ; and, therefore, viewing his policy on one
t
inclined e Policy of his opponents on the other, he was no
'Miser Y' Carp at every fault, or to run him down for every
ateti etion, h...
, us he would stand by him now that lie was under.
t° coupe
‘)01--' Now, he was of opinion that the Irish question
upon which it was worse than treachery
4sted:ll their opinions on the grounds upon which they
dance, If there reall did exist in the state of Ireland any
the ar,.woih was not to be apprehended in any other part of
for th"t•ted kingdom, he thought the worst thing they could do
attetzeir
country was to conceal it. It was in fact useless to
Woule eoneealment—all the world knew ;the facts,. and
or
ltrie folly to endeavour by any solemn mutter.ing,
.nr
er• elistence
'he mace to gull the world nit° not believing
f"orla efore it of a danger which they perceived themselve?.
was lie thouht the House would give him credit
ipe4u? sincerity and earnest conviction that induced him to
14 on tanl even if he might shock some gentleman by touch -
t' die, °lnes which on ordinary occasions it was not prudent
ail ai'ss is that House, the necessity of the case should he
I
111attitnie• Another ground of excuse he thought should be
lod, Y were aware that the tone in which they spoke o.
in that
1344s,rtf4as more in unison with the state of public feeling
hii used to be. They could net disguise that the state of
tqad.e feeling and their own feeling, as shown by their
the, 'et in that;House, was different from what used:to be—that
the ;t hilt were aware' that there was some mischief in
aPPliee which was not to be counteracted by temporary
,o,7torts of the old method of treatment, but which must
tit tit "uteracted forthwith, if they meant to maintain the peace
jae tfea "Vire. They knew that, and that it was an enereas-
ssig ger, and that many ancient prejudices which used to
ii)ate', were fast fading away, and that our countrymen,
he au °f being averse to the man who spoke the truth, would
an rather grateful to him, and still more grateful to
evil. Person who would suggest a remedy for the
Rag the The evil which they had to deal with
sots e alleged disaffection of the Irish people. He was very
es,tit to have to use in that Heuse, words that had been
01:414 gentlemen on' the opposite side who represented the
that!! Party in Ireland. lie need hardly say, he was sure.
he used those terms lie totally repuditalemd
impossible
eirtiot
de,„ twhich
they were applied. But still lie felt i
of the words, there existed
in a certain limited
indeed,e to the Crown,: but to the
moset.trad disaffection, not,
%°4ll-1 triller and. some of theinstitutions of the empire. He
°, the doubt it when lie looked to some of the proceedings
taost li,PeOte—to the language of those Persons who had
4eweDaer_a t wit them • and when lie looked to the language of v
montlas ago, had
tweb,?, (te Nation') which, having been only started
.about
ltatrtgher
.circulation than ,zithin six months from that period, a
paper in Ireland—when he looked
Whertelndicatio4s of temperY manifested by the public meetings,
he compared those things with the private accounts he
the
received fro individuals he ould not doubt that throughout
deers part of the Roman Catholic population of Ireland,
existed the greatest alienation from this country. In-
serried „was was prepared to believe that fact. We had go-
thls Ireland as if our object had been to alienate the affee-
he the Roman Catholic inhabitants of that country, and
lie "not
'd •
suprised at our havin in a great degree succeeded.
witlasai this not lightly —not gwithout consideration, and
tie, no intention to Y
exaggerate. It was a frightful
.4 to have is admit the existence of such a state of things
Pnpa4 a portion of the people, to believe that one-fourth of the
xese,....t'en of the empire—as the Roman Catholics of Ireland
Pttlett were as hostile to the Government of England as the po-
Poptda4,T! of Poland was to the Government of Russia, and the
'1
,th,at of Lombardy to Austria. Was he not borne out in
°1 b-w oY the words of 7
Was Government ? By
ure by what twhich
enure
owel, kovd
head hold
Poland, and Austriait not the same ten
held Lombardy, .
was
namely, the
leNtig as overwhelming military force ? If he
4•
, those matters, lie should have much pleasure
eorre ted. But he was Tiot to be car-
et.° spealY. the c mere expression of repugnance t
to
AePte, come
for Ing• But it was necessary for the Governmen
irward with proofs of the good disposition of tics Irish
eO tria,it 'order to evidence that lie was wrong. In the meantime
't and
t,he of the facts that were before the
tinil44l, thuu by those facts he could come to no other eon-
es deeo an that the alienation of the people was not
• an ,riia:indateioznter,i;ive,.but also of a permanent nature. It
1'444
alienatio ofandß. Roman al' was evidently teonfdlifpgeoptole.
religion and race —( Hear, hear.) It
Catholic Ireland from
rirnda '4141 t England
to G which tthe 11
sac thee as
usat inevitably tend if not
,aePar:tria,e,,ted• Thnel
;saindvethrnint etlnie rnlrish were aiming at total
tartiala`;'" Lod the Irish peoplea themselves avowedly asked for
k;l4,keliataion from us. Now, he must confess. that when
i'lre_tledat tt,
et he course that discontent was taking, he wase
tt,i!it_ and cc..
naspect zealsented—the great
„,,,`,'eanee 2°e trated—their being.marshnaullmed under the
,I",`, et orul one man—their exhibition of the
s'4,l tiles ganisatiun and f the ratest intelligence—
'artline were
Nein asPeet features that combined to present a
th. the • He believed there was no Go
▪ the, _ , World that possessed a more powerful machinery
bc,at`d:hieli was to be met with in Ireland, by the side of,
O'e,„„_to. the regular Government. He believed that
41.1444
0fm,1.11 exercised the most perfect control over. six
1114.1 of 4,n!1 countrymen. The exertions of even an in
but
th;se ha.4lait_ magna ,den would be very dangoerouwsielded
noi, peens!! leader Mr. O'Connell, who
lead ealstin „ oY an agency the most . powerful
‘,04„,* did not exaggerate', s
teners---h By that means and by the organisation of local
soul „; I wielded ureli•, when he said that Mr.
hody. H all that mass as though they had but one
ewiti:lndtbthem whenere and whither they were to
Z41,1'4'114 be still—
w to be for action or inaction
mane was always implicitly obeyed, To any think-
ptescerve!sish,i, People
think-
t, 41_ th.e. most formidable feature in the aspeet
presented, was . the. quietnesste
proeou• 'hey broke out into no partial riots, and hs
relay watt., could not force them to appeal tdo
dartmer:
at t4,d,ot.yut_t.o,ere as. if conscious of their strength,
ha ese vrop:_throw it away in any rash attempt, butan to strikee
rat " moment, and with ood effect. Therefor it was
th et theta .
pet,
piee plain not disguise thefact from themselvese . That
d ea •tin hnal state of thiiigs in Ireland: Th had a re et, g
Ofee• n 9 waiting for the moment when they could show
thehieles it gth•--(llear hear.) Now was that a state of things
atittliisteneew•its v!ile and just to their countrymen to concealmit
cer..litas it not rather the wiser course tov_picorientthocy
per apply a
1::",1 matters, with a view to seeing
rodeos reined ?
, The policy of the Government was
fr0...-ased e• It was that of mere coercion. T ey hadd
th;' Power":;ne of the grievances of Ireland. They had remove
%di); had Bite persons persons in whom the people had confidence, and
ttiv vd, en the whole of the executive authority, to thatd
Ph ered the (411 the rest of the nation detested. they had
rttZ'iieal Dowe!"notry with troops, and under the shield of thatd
ted ther„ tr.!, !hey had seized the lands of the people,
law,an
INaa vet, "le
.to penalties under a very questionable
Was ealeolajtgleatinable means. That was the policy whichu
" ealetj.°, repress only the immediate movement, bt
r ,is .• the / .ed to prevent any ulterior movemen b),
~01,n_tsanee.
Brish
l'eople, or by preventing all hope of future
cal Rut at 144 Mated to eo •
any rate it would be admitted, that it was
)bent eau neiliate the people • on the contrary, it
the Govern-
Pesa, harli'erdathe theta*, and his belief was, that all
s.
it e "d been simply and
Lre pie g feelings, and he trusted it would be
greatly to exa
theart, 134ter of•
it. O'Connell to prevent any out-
Ills 'hirnerie • let them not deceive themselves with
the Oaitioa
na,,_!deea that they had done anything to alter the
Wit: would
glottlo Irish people. They might depend upon it
toe Perfect an with an assurance of ultimate success, and
tatid.ans
*,.eoneeption of the plan they meant to pur-
vsrtat g ? ,_',.ve°; he did ask them whither all that was
theZektat's) vie 711 ed that the best thing for their (the Go-
thia'' wits, an,,t"h—he was Sure he did nut desire to ilharge
dealiret..tio.n, which
4'4 te',,sttPlsjort'ni °t* the kind, when he said that the best
eir present policy would be an immediate
't hi "e certainlwould, in all probability, be ultimately put
plait eountryla, y did not mean to say, from the character
thrisertt. had /11, that the instant resistance was4isarmed, and
c legon, their generous feelings would mat step
If—and the
tt74l4elieved that `heir
quarrel be altogether forgotten.
aLtaats
whi
heompassit...; would step in and sweep away
41ed Malt to could now be et, much better removed. He
(111 4I Mr. O'Connell lea the Irish people,

there was no danger of an insurrection ; but he asked if the
general peace of Europe were broken, and in the event of a
war, if foreign enemies landed in Ireland, would they not find
a large portion of the people of that country a friendly popula-
tion ?—'" No, no," frees both sides of the House.) They
knew full well that that danger was not unreasonably appre-
hended before, and it was averted, not by any want of ability on
the part of our enemies, but because the Irish people were not
inclined to rise against this nation. He had touched upon that
subject very lightly, and lie ventured no assertion of his own
Upon it.—( Hear, hear.) But, he asked, was there nothing in
that subject which would point out a want of security in Ire-
land, in the case of a war? Was net the contingency of war
publicly discussed in Ireland, and in America? And did not
Louis Philippe, simple as' ho was—( A laugh)—possess an
inkling of the matter ? Those were only the probable evils of
the present state of Ireland ; but the real evils which it im-
posed were the enormous expense—the constant violation of the
constitutional principles and free form of government under
which we lived—and, above all, the total impossibility of taking
any measures to ameliorate the condition of the people of Ireland.
The state of Ireland—the turbulent disposition and utter i
misery of the peasantry of that country—made it the great eye-
sore
of the whole of Europe. Intelligent travellers from all
countries—men conversant with the state of every nation of
the continent of Europe—drscribe the destitution and misery
of Ireland as being beyond that of the peasantry of any country
in the world. This is a frightful thing; it is more—it is a
scandal to us who have governed Ireland. And yet, exist
will till they removed the religious grievances of the people,
for it was totally impossible to ameliorate the condition
of a disaffected people—it was totally impossible, till the first
was effected, to do any good. The great evil of Ireland put
out of the question any plan that wisdom might suggest for
the improvement of the people.—( Hear, hear.) Now he had
stated the existence of this disaffection without justifying it,
without palliating it, awl even without reprobating it ; for he
wished to represent it simply to the House in a practical point
of view.—( An Hon. Member on the Opposition benches, we
believe Mr. J. O'Connell, expressed his disapprobation of the
word " disaffected.") Ile wished to present that feeling to the
House in a practical point of view, namely, as one
that they could not dream away, that they could
not doubt away, and that they could not allow
to exist unheeded. He had been guarded in his use of the
word disaffection—he had guarded himself against any mis-
apprehension, by stating his wish to present it to them as a
thing with which they must deal as " a great fact," one to be
taken into consideration as the basis of all their policy with
regard to Ireland. It would not do at this time of day, to lay
all the blame of the agitation on agitators and demagogues,
because the world at large had pretty well arrived at the con-
clusion that a people 'might be provoked, but never instigated,
into are wit. They must use the knowledge of this feeling, in order
to direct them in applying a remedy. They must not be
misled in endeavouring to apply that remedy, by attending
merely to what the people asked ; it was their business to at-
tend to that cry so far as it led them to an acquaintance with
their grievances, and those grievances it was their duty to re-
lieve when they discovered them. He did not say that, because
the people of Ireland demanded the repeal of the union, they
were to discuss that question as the only remedy, or to apply
any remedy except that which might be most just and the
most practical. It was impossible to look at the state
ef Ireland, without seeing that the real grievance which had
alienated the affections of the people, was a religious grievance,
else why was the agitation going on through all the Catholic
population of Ireland? Why were the Catholic priests the
leaders of it, and why did the present outbreak take place on
the accession of an Anti-Catholic Ministry to power ?
(Cheers. ) These coincidences showed that it was a religious
grievance. And when they looked round on the state of Ire-
land, and asked what it was that called forth the in-
dignant feelings of the people, they saw that which the
voice of the world had pronounced to be a greater outrage on
religious feeling than was to be found in any part of it—the
ascendancy of the English Church in that country. He knew
that there were some gentlemen who maintained that the hos-
tility to the English Church, on the part of the people of Ire-
land, was a sort of point of honour—a feeling far too fine for
people of common sense—anti who looked on the mass of the
people as a set of beasts, who, as long as their bellies were filled
—( Hear, hear, from an Honourable Member on the Mi-
nisterial side)—had no business to trouble themselves with
any point of the kind. Those who held this opinion
totally overlooked the fact, that almost all great movements of
a national character that had ever taken place in the metro-
polis had been caused by outrages on national feeling, rather
than by injuries to national interest.—( Hear, hear.) It
seemed to him that the ascendancy of the English Church in
Ireland had every characteristic of an outrage on national
feeling. First, it was a great and palpable injustice—the
maintenance of the English Church as an establishment in
Ireland, was a thing so opposed to every principle on which
Church establishments were maintained by any rational
set of men, that no one could doubt that they ventured to
keep it up, solely from a scornful disregard of the feelings of
the Irish people. Why, the only national principle on which
he had ever heard the connexion of Church and State de-
fended, was that it was their duty to provide for the religious
wants of the majority of the people, and, above all, for the
religious instruction of the poor. Now, what was it that they
had done in Ireland? They had plundered the many of the
provision made fur their religious wants, in order to establish
a sinecure Church for the few.—( Cheers. ) They had robbed
the very poorest people in the world, in order to
gorge the avidity of the rich.—( Hear, hear.) The
Irish Church was associated with more recollections of
suffering and grievance than any other institution in any na-
tion with which he was acquainted. He thought it was not
too much to say that—taking not only the intensity of its per-
secutions at particular intervals, the long period it had lasted,
and the numbers ;over which it, extended ; but also, the
evils that had been their results —a greater amount of human
misery had been caused by the attempts made by Queen Eliza-
beth, and since the time of Elizabeth, to force the Protestant
religion on the people of Ireland, than by any other
cause that ever operated to the detriment of any nation. It
was impossible that in the minds of the Irish peasant the
English Church could ever be viewed except as surrounded
by a dark aloud of recollections of conquest, of repeated
massacre, of as oft-repeated confiscation, as the source
of the laws that made his religion penal, that broke
the peace of society, and severed the ties of families
—the laws that pronounced unnameable barbarities as the
punishment of the teachers of his own faith—as the
source of evils from which he had himself suffered, or mise-
ries from which he had seen others suffer. It was impossible
for any man to look on the Church in Ireland but as associated
with these evils and mischiefs, or to regard it but with feelings
of alienation and hatred. But be would go further ; he would
say that there wag not one evil in the present state of
Ireland with which the ascendancy of the English Church
was not connected, either as cause or concomitant.
He attributed entirely to that ascendancy the alienation
of the rich from the poor, the horrible relations of landlord and
tenant, the neglect of a proper provision for education, and the
perverted administration of justice, which had deprived the
people of all confidence in their magistrates. The peasantry had
always been ill-treated under the name of Papists, and did they
wonder that they hated the institution by which all this wrong
had been perpetrated ? He would new only ask one more ques-
tion on this subject. If this was the, feeling with regard to the
Church in the mind of the Irish peasant, what must be the
leeling of the Irish Catholic gentlemen, and still more in the
mind of tke Irish Catholic priest? The Irish Catholic priest
was fully cognisant of all the horrors of the past—he was fully
cognisant of all the evils that afflicted his country—he was per-
fectly acquainted with the position his Church occupied in all
the rest of Christian Europe, anti he deeply felt its
humiliation in his own country. Above all, he deeply
felt the mortifying position in which that humiliation
placed him. Under the influence of the common
feelings of human nature, could he feel anything but hostility
to the ascendancy of that Church which he believed was he-
retical, and which he
,knew to be obtrusive ?—( Hear, hear. )
His opinion of all these facts, therefore, was, that the great
barrier to all improvement, to the tranquillity of Ireland, was
the present position of the English and the Catholic Church
in that country. And until they removed that, and other
grievances connected with it—which he might call Church
grievances—such as the defects of the franchise and of the
municipal corporations, it would be impossible for them to
do anything for the amelioration of the condition of the people
of Ireland. Ho was aware that he had used very strong lan-
guage, and which he feared might give offence to some gen-
tlemen. He saw with pleasure the sensitive manner in which
the Hon. Member for Kilkenny had taken up this ap-
plication of the term disaffected to the peuple.—
( Hear.) He applied it in a limited sense, and he wished
now to explain by an instance which he wished particularly
to press on the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite ;
it was one that showed how -easy it was, by a simple course ef
justice, to remove the most unequivocal disaffection. He
wished to cell the attention of the House to au instance
that had occurred within their own experience, and of which
they were cognisant. They remembered the state of Canada in
1838. During that year there were no less than two
insurrections in that colony—( Hear, hear)—and in that
insurrection, nearly the whole of the French population of
the colony was implicated, either by having taken part in it, or
by being known to be friendly to the insurgents. He was
sure that no one doubted—at least no one did when he was in
Canada—that had a foreign army made its appearance, it
would have been able to have held its ground. The steps
taken to redress the grievances of Canada were founded en-
tirely on two recommendations. One was the union of the two
provinces—the second was to establish a responsible Parka-
rnentary Government. Ho did not allude to the union of the
two provinces as a step that quite alleviated the French discon-
tent. Lord Sydenham was not able to alleviate that discon-
tent. It went on increasing till the Right Hon. Baronet sent
out Sir C. Begot to administer the affairs of that country. Sir
C. Begot adopted the system of responsible government, that
is, he admitted the leaders of the Preach party to office, and
what effect did this step produce on the French popu-
lation? Why, within six months the whole of this
devoted people were offering up prayers in their churches
for the health of the Governor who had granted the boon,
and for the prosperity of the mother country, to whom they
were grateful for it. He brought with great pleasure this
instance before the Right Hon. Baronet, because it was an
instance of the conciliation produced by his own wise measures.
lie had seen the effect of conciliation in Canada. Let him try
its effects in Ireland. Let the Government act in the same
spirit as that is which they had acted in Canada, and he was
bound to say that, however strong the feeling of the people
tuight be, they would be conciliated by acting with jus- !
tice and in a liberal spirit. He was not going to take up the
time of the House—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches )
of the valuable time of those important gentlemen opposite.—
( Laughter)—but he thought it was absolutely necessary that he
should specifically state how he thought these grievances might
be remedied, It could only be by establishing perfect religious
equality. His was alsveys glad to have recourse to any preced-
ents when it was possible. anti he believed it would have been
the best thing for the country had Mr. Pitt been able to ettect
the large and comprehensive plan on which he conceived the
union. Ile believed he intended first to emancipate the Catholics
with respect to their civil rights. Secondly, to have granted
payment to he Catholic jslergy ; and, thirdly, to have effected
the union. But the order of those measures was reversed, the
union eves carried, but the other parts of his great and sound
poliey were pot effected. This was deeply to be regretted, If,
at the time of passing the union, these measures had been ear.
ried, Ireland would have keep es tranquil and as well governed
a country as any in the world, Rut he feared that the time
for those measures had now passed away, Pk feared that they
were inseribed its one of the Sybil s books that had been
irrecoverably cortserued.—((;heers. ) In 1.825 they might,
perhaps, have coupled with their liberal policy a measure for
the endowment of the Catholic Clergy, bet now they would
distrust the spirit in which they Made the offer.—(Hear,
hear.) It would be believed that their object was, ess indeed
it was avowed to he, to bribe the priests, and to seduce the
leaders from the people. The offer would be entirely re-
jected, and would be viewed from one end of Ireland to the
re-
jected, eejth feelings of hostility. And more than this—ho be.
lieved if they have to do this without the consent of the
cittjatjc priests or peepe !hey would be paying a costly price
forh an evenld, not he of the slightest service +n
em.
leiiitfetrer.te"cltttolia
priests were to take the pay of the
tGo-
vernment
they would luttotoliatelv lose all their bold on the
,
people ; and thus would be
OutttiertlhygedesottrhoeyreabtalLedleuetniigde
nth;
Government relied on..
Iseljoes skae the prejeacee of ther people
emiogfit theipsencloyundtrey.
could be tot psier, eineSS the for
securing twas abseititety necessary
t
f
Litcy
ept,Kar.y rejected dweecularrinegithathe
,a measurerl
enquiblloi otol Ireland,h4s
people and 4 uttelip7ieset°s"4ic4i. that
; t,d their proposal?—(Hear, hear. ) They must
' then gp,7,e tsp their plan, and N
preosdeuhce eqadhueaellittya'lrienadaryeaatthlueid.
ewdatyo.
Now
prop
dr fcr London, and the
by the the plan e
LQI4 chi) L°.

Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland. The Learned Mem-
ber the Recorder of Dublin had stated that the adop:ins
the congregational principle of paying the Protestant
clergy would be equivalent to stripping it of its
chat acter as a national establishment. That was pre-
ci ely the ground on which, he would say, they ought
to adopt the principle.—( Hear, hear.) He believed it
was not so much the amount of the money paid to the Church
that was objected to by the Irish people. What they objected to
was the doininancy of the Church.—( Loud cheers.) If the
Protestants of the Established Church were paid in the same
manner as those of the Presbyterian Church, he thought that
the discontent would be in a great measure appeased. He
should wish, in the change which he proposed, to see a proper
regard paid to existing vested interests—( Hear, hear)—and he
slid not believe that there was a single Irish Catholic who
would not wish to have a proper regard paid to existing in-
terests.—( Loud cheers. ) Let them take the whole property of
the state Church into the hands of Government, let them pay
the clergy of that Church on the congregational principle,
saving the inerease as the incumbents died off; let them make a
fair and liberal allowance to the ministers of the Established
Church in Ireland, and they would have done all that was ne-
cessary on this point to remove the indignation of the people
of Ireland.—(Cheers.) This measure must be preliminary to
every other measure. This would remedy the religious ine-
qualities, hut it would not better the physical condition of the
people. But it must precede every measure for bettering their
physical condition, in order to prepare their minds for the re-
ception of those measures. Hence arose his chief repugnance
to the landlord and tenant commission. He did full justice to
the talents and character of the Noble Lord who was at the
head of that Commission.—(Hear, hear.) But the Right
Hon. Baronet had begun at the wrong end.—(Cheers,) The
Right Hon. Baronet thought that the appointment of this
Landlord and Tenant Commission would allay all the discontent
in Ireland without a remedy of their religious grievances.
It would be impossible to allay that discontent unless
those grievances were first remedied.—( Loud cheers. )
It was not giving the remedial measures a fair chance.—
( Cheers.) Ile was convinced that if those religious grievances
were redressed, it would not be long before they would secure
the material prosperity of a country which long wanted justice
done to it, to develope its great natural resources.— Loud
cheers.) He was grieved to find that her Majesty's Govern.
had taken their stand on maintaining the existing religious ine-
quality.—( Cheers. ) They depended on the majority by
which they were backed in that House—( Cheering and coun-
ter •cheering)—and they placed reliance upon the prejudices of
the people of England ; prejudices which had frequently been
brought to bear on these questions.—(Loud cheers.) Ile was
prepared to meet them upon that point. England never dealt
fairly with the people of Ireland on this question.—(Cheers.)
They had never fairly placed before the people of
England the horrible injustice which the maintenance of this
system perpetrated in Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) They had
been kept in ignorance of it.—(Cheers.) He was sure that
all the efforts to govern Ireland upon their present principles
would be wholly useless, and would only add another chapter
to the disastrous history of that most injured country,
Lord STANLEY would not deny he had no desire to deny
to the Noble Lord, the Member for the City of London, the
credit of having made on this important question a most able
and clever Opposition motion—(Cheers)—and a most able and
clever Opposition speech.—( Renewed cheers.) It was a most
able and clever opposition motion, because, in moving merely
for a Committee of Inquiry, the Noble Lord hoped,
that, in the certainty of the rejection of that
motion—and without that certainty, the Noble Lord
would hardly haze ventured to make it—( Loud cheering
from the Ministerial benches)—the Noble Lord trusting in
that certainty, hoped that he might hereafter be able to al-
lude to the rejection of that motion ; a motion, as he would
say, merely for inquiry, and taunt the majority by which he
had been opposed as heaping injustice, injury, and insult upon
the people of Ireland.—( Loud Opposition cheers.) A motion
fur inquiry into the grievances of the Irish people had been
rejected, it would be said, with contempt by a Parliamentary
majority.—( Cries of " No, no.") No, not by the Noble
Lord. The Noble Lord would hold no such language, but the
Noble Lord knew well that there were those among his sup-
porters who held, and who would hold, such lan-
guage.—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial side of the House. )
The form of the motion was intended to afford them
the greatest facility for holding such language.—( Renewed
Ministerial cheers.) No one in the House could doubt but
that the motion was intended as a direct and palpable vote
of censure on her Majesty's Government.—( Tremendous
cheers from the Opposition.) Such was the intention, but
such were not the terms.—(Cheering.) It would have been
more manly and straightforward in the Noble Lord to have
proposed a direct vote of censure —( Cheers)—but not so
politic.—(Cheers.) For the debate afforded ample opportu-
nity for insinuating charges against their political opponents,
while the avowed object of the motion was only to suggest
a remedy for grievances. He would not go to the whole
length to which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had
just sat down had gone, but he would admit that he viewed the
case of Ireland with care, with anxiety, and with some alarm.
He slid not believe with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that if
a foreign army was to land in Ireland they would find a friendly
greeting from the greater part of the Irish people.—( Hear,
hear.) He had a higher opinion of the loyalty and good feeling
of the people of Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) If such, indeed,
were the case ; if in the event of a foreign war, a great portion
of the people of Ireland would be ready to welcome any army
that should be hostile to Great Britain ; if it were true, as the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had stated, that Ireland was not
only disaffected but revolted—a revolted people coolly awaiting
the moment to show their hostility--excited almost to mad-
ness—at the command of one man who could either
lull theta to temporary repose, or excite them to
action as might suit his ulterior purposes—if that
were the state of Ireland could they conceive how,
at such a moment, such a motion should be proposed for
mere party object—when everything ought to be merged in
patriotic leeling.—( Hear, and cheers.) Could they conceive
anything more tremendous than the responsibility of those men
who had once served the Crown, who might hope again to
serve the Crown, and who yet at such a moment could
bring forward a motion calculated to cause every possible
prejudice in the Irish people, whose feelings were already ex-
cited to the verge of madness—( Loud cheers)--and who en-
deavoured, by every species of misrepresentation, to obstruct
and to thwart those who under such tremendous circumstances
were charged with the safety of the empire?—( Loud cheers.)
Now, what had been their course under these circumstances?
Had it been as :the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had stated
it must and would be?—(Cheers.) No.—(Cheers.) There
had been no violation of constitutional principle.—(Tremen-
dous Opposition cheers.) What principle had they violated?
—( Cheers and counter-cheering.) What law had they strained?
—( Immense cheering from the Opposition.) What new powers
had they asked for ?—(Ministerial cheers.) What rights or
privileges had they restrained ?—(Renewed cheers.) They
were told that the country was in a most dangerous state ' • that
Mr. O'Connell was at the head of a people actuated by hostile
feelings. and acting, or ceasing to act, according to the d.rec-
tion of their leader ; they were told by the Noble Lord that Mr.
O'Connell possessed the confidence of the Irish people,
and the Noble Lord intimated that they ought to
be guided by the councils of Mr. O'Connell.
A more forgiving man than the Noble Lord he had never
heard of.—(Ministerial cheers.) They had been reproached--
nay, they were even now reproached—by Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite with not having interfered earlier.—(Cheers.) They
had, however, pursued a steady and a legal course.---( Cheers. )
Without any violation of the law—without asking for any in-
creased power—(Loud cheers)—but trusting to the law alone,
they had brought to judgment and to conviction the leaders of
the band.---( Cheering and counter-cheering.) They told him
that the danger was not over—(Loud Opposition cheers)—that
they had not effected their object—(Opposition cheers)—that
the conviction had driven the people to madness.—( Cheers. )
And before the record could be received of that conviction—
before the law-officers of the Crown could appear to face their
charges and their calumnies, they thought it right—(Cheers)
—they thought it decent—(Cheers)—they thought it patriotic
—(Cheers)—there, in that House of Commons—( Cheers)—
to excite this already maddened people, by remarking in that
assembly, trusting to such reports as alone they could have yet
received, upon the conduct, upon the words, upon the voice,
aye ! even upon the gestures of the highest functionaries
of the law.—(Loud Ministerial and Opposition cheers.)
He was sorry to see Hon. Gentlemen opposite so strongly'ex-
ciied.—( Renewed cheering.) The Noble Lord, at an early
period of the debate, had charged the Government with occu-
pying, but not governing, Ireland.—( Loud Opposition cheers. )
It had been mane, for a considerable time past, a matter of
charge against the Government that they restrained the people
of Ireland by military force, and not by law.—(Opposition
cheers.) The Noble Lord had commented on what he deno-
minated the fallacious returns of the amount of military force
in Ireland which had been produced by his Right Hon. Friend
the Secretary of State for the Home Department. An Hon.
Gentleman had called for returns of the reek and file in Ireland,
for every year since the year 1830; those returns had been
produced, and the result had been to show that this Govern-
ment, which was charged with having introduced a military
despotism into Ireland, with having superseded law by military
force, had actually during the two years which they had been
in office, up to the commencement of 1843, maintained in Ire-
land a force lower, on the average, by 2,000 men than the
average which had been maintained by Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site during the time that they administered the Government.
—( Cheers.) In 1832, the military force in Ireland amounted
to 19,301 men. In 1833, to 23,998.—(Hear, hear.) In 1834,
to 23,055. During the next five years, from 1835 to 1841, the
average force in Ireland was 16,810 men. The lowest amount
of force was 14,687 men. During the two years 1842 and 1843,
the average force was 14,833 men, and in the month of
May, 1842, the force in Ireland was below 13,000
men, being the lowest force since the union that
had ever twee retained in Ireland.—( Hear, and cheers. )
The Noble Lord moved for a letter of the Lord Lieutenant of
Ireland, offering to give up four or five regiments to quell the
disturbances in England in 1839. Why, in 1839, the force in
Ireland was 16,260 men, and if the whole four regiments,
being of the ordinary strength of regiment., had been sent out
of Ireland, they would not have reduced the force in that coun-
try below the average at which they were kept by her Majesty's
present Government.—( Cheers.) But in 1e43 commenced that
system which he might venture to describe as a system
of pernicious agitation—(Hear, hear, and cheers. )
Mul-
titudinous meetings were held in every part of the
country which, if net of themselves strictly illegal, were of
such a character as to cause reasonable and serious alarm—not
of immediate violence, because that was not the object of the
' leaders, at whose beck the people would rise or be still; but
no man would tell him that a succession of those meetings, at
which 100,000 persons were assembled to petition Parliament,
but who did not petition Parliament—(Cheers)—using exciting
language, selecting scenes calculated to excite rancorous hos-
tility to England (Cheers) using at those meetings
language, the tendency of which was to create hatred
and ill-will between the two countries—if he said those
meetings were not in themselves illegal, their tendency was to
create a rersonable apprehension, if not of an immediate dis-
turbance of the public peace, at least of an attempt to overthrow
the functions of Government.—(Cheers.) Would any person
tell him that the responsible ]Minister of the Crown would be
justified, seeing, day by day, and week by week, meetings of
200,000 persons taking place, arrayed and disciplined, and
boasting of their strength, with:a leader, who, according to the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman who spoke last, had
but to hold up his finger, when they would rise
up in their strength and might—would any person tell him
that the Government wonld be justified—nay, would not be
deserving of impeachment—(Loud cheers)--if they did not
wet that display of physical force by the exhibition of physical
force, sufficient, thank God; not only to check an outbreak,
bet even the possibility of such en outbreak 2—( Cheers.) He
admitted that, in 1843, they added is largo increase tie the
military force in Ireland; yet, oven now they had not
incrblid teased it to the same amount at which it stood in 1834,
nor hey raised the whole force in Ireland above what it
was in 1834 and 1835. seed though at an early period of the
Government they had somewhat reduced the military force,
the House would recollect at the same time; that e large 417
crease. was Made to the police—( Hear, ]tear)—and this Gio-
Yernment, which tallied of nothing but moral influence, and
ogoverningtiso
largelrela a ndbyniiite meads of alit influence,
if n
iu
If the
°toe yoeld permit him, he would now deal with some of
those topics in'eyhjel; fife ]?blade Lord and other Members of
the House dealt, and he must' 61146 the WV), of 2a)lng, that
the whole course of the debate exhibited the piecrenee
point of
fir? as large phYsieeltar fvorc force
force. —
blear,
Ireland,
hear.) in
course pursued by the Noble Lord in bringing forward it 19949 e
for ; Committee, and net a substantive motion ; because,
Bough there issai; greet unanimity in condemning the Govern-
- went on account of the present state of Ireland, there was great
discrepancy as to the causes which produced it, and great dis-
crepancy as to the course which ought to be pursued, and as to

the measures which the Government, which was to succeed her
Majesty's present Government, ought to adopt;with regard to
Ireland. Objections had been urged to the course adopted by
the Government—earl objection was taken for not interfering
sooner—another objection was made fur interfering too son—
another said they issued the proclamation too late, but he
thought his Right Hon. Friend proved, by fair statements of
dates, that it was impossible the proclamation could have been
issued a day sooner after the intention of the party became
known.—( An observation was here made which (lid not reach
us.) He ( Lord Stanley) believed that question had been set-
tled, but he would not weary the House by repeating what had
been said on that subject by his Right Hon. Friend, and was
satisfied to leave the statement to the House and the country.
—( Hear, hear.) But Hon. Gentlemen opposite gave him an
ironical cheer, when he said they did nut strain the law ; and
would any gentleman rise up and tell him, the House, and the
country, what law had been strained ?—( Hear, hear. ) What
course had been pursued by the Government which was not
oily justified by circumstances, but compulsory upon them ?
With regard to the accidental omission of the names from the
general jury list, it was a question with which the Government
had nothing to do. He merely mentioned it as an instance of
the haste, the breathless haste, with which gentlemen pressed
assertions against the Government before the circumstances
were known.— ( llear, hear.) They heard over and over again,
?Lyle ad nauseam, that sixty Catholics—(" No, no)"—well
names, were excluded from the list. The Government had
nothing to do with that ; but if that was so, why was the charge
made against tile Government? It was said that the prisoners
being Catholics —or a majority of them—were prejudiced in having
a fair,trial by excluding the names from the jury list, many
of whom were of the Roman Catholic persuasion. Was it
true that sixty names were omitted? No, nor thirty, but
twenty.four ; and of these fifteen were from one parish; and
of these he did not know, nor did the Recorder, whose state-
ment lie followed—( Hear, hear )—who were Roman Catholics
and who Protestants ; but this he did know, that the gentle-
man by whose negligence, or in consequence of whose omis-
sion, those names were left out, was himself a Roman Catholic.
—( Hear, hear.) And yet it was made a charge against the
Government that they were omitted to prejudice the tra-
versers, being Roman Catholics, on their trial. This was the
charge with regard to the omission of the names. Then with
regard to striking the Roman Catholics off the jury—
Lord J. RUSSELL—Challenging them.
Lord STANLEY thanked the Noble Lord. He did not use
the accurate expression—which was challenge. What was the
fact ? The Noble Lord contrived to omit the distinction be-
tween a common, and a special jury, and omitted to tell the
House this, that if they had a common jury, which they might
have had, it would have given the Crown a power of causing
persons to stand by, and they might then be charged—perhaps
unjustly charged—with packing the jury. They sought no
such advantage; they applied for a special jury—they applied
for it as the last special jury list stood. The traversers corn•
plained that it was not correct, and they applied
for time to have a new list framed. The
Crown acceded to that request, and gave them time to have
a new jury list. Was this done by any law introduced by
them, or according to any mode or arrangement of theirs?
No, but according to a law, framed, lie presumed, to facili-
tate the due administration of justice, and introduced, he
believed, by Sir M. O'Loghlin, when Attorney-General of
Ireland. What were the conditions of that law ? Forty-
eight names were to be taken by ballot frem the general jury
list. From this number both the CroWn on the one hand and
the traversers on tin; other hand had the right of striking out
twelve names each, and no discretion whatever was
left them in the exercise of that right ; but then it was
said that the officers struck off all the Roman Catholics. His
Noble Friend stated—and he was sure any statement he made
would not be for a moment doubted—that positive directions
had been given by the Irish Government, which had the cor-
dial approval of her Majesty's Government here, not to strike
ofl any person on account of his religion. Ten Roman Ca-
tholics were struck off who were Repeaters, with one exception.
Mr. SHEIL—No, no.
Lord STANLEY—The Right Hon. Gentleman possessed
a great advantage over him, because he had a little professional
bias in the quest ron—( Laughter)—he was counsel for the parties.
Ile (Lord Stanley) was not.—( Cheers and laughter.) It
was sworn by the officer who struck time list, that the Roman
Catholics were Repeaters, to the best of his belief.—( Cries of
" No, no," and " Hear, hear.") If the affidavit was not put
in, a statement was made on the part of the Government
officer, that lie believed they were members of the Repeal
Association. On the other hand another affidavit was put in
by the traversers, to the effect that they were not Repeaters.
—(Cries of "No. no.") He believed, in the first instance
that an affidavit was offered, stating that they were
not Repeaters, or connected with the Repeal Association.
But after a considerable time it happened to be mentioned
that it was not forthcoming. The solicitors for the traversers
then came forward and filed an affidavit, that to the best of
their belief two of the number were not Repealers.—( Cheers
and laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member
for Devonport, conceived that, with regard to those who were
meMbeiin leaving them on the jury. One of these two was at the
r of (fielfepeal `Association, they would not be justified
time believed to be a member of the Repeal Associa-
tion, and he believed at least that he signed
a requisition for a repeal meeting. The tenth per-
son was struck off not because he was a Roman Ca-
tholic, because at the period of striking the jury he was
firmly believed not only to be a Protestant in religion but a
st rong Conservative Protestant—( Hear, hear ) —and he thought
he could give confirmation of that belief, because upon making
inquiry in Dublin (at least so he was informed), he was re-
gistered as a Protestant on the part of the Conservative in-
terest.—(Cheers.) He was not struck out on account of his
supposed religion, and yet the greatest prejudice had been
excited on this subject, because it was said that they were
struck off, because they were Roman Catholics, were
insulted, and it was supposed they thought that
Roman Catholics could not be believed on their oaths.
fie had now received the affidavit which had been alluded to
in the course of the debate.—(Cheers.) It was signed Wm.
Kemmis, and sworn before Mr. Bourne.—(Great cheering.)
Now the deponent in that affidavit stated that he did not be-
lieve that eleven persons professing the Catholic religion had
been struck off from the jury on the late trials in Ireland.
Mr. SHEIL—But he did not say that eleven Repeaters had
not been struck off.—( Great cheering.)
Lord STANLEY—CouId any one doubt, after that observa-
tion, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had brought into that
llouse the quibbles and quirks by which, in courts of law, it
was sometimes sought to impede the course of justice?—
( Hear, hear.) The Crown was charged with striking off ten
Homan Catholics from the panel of the jury. Now supposing
that to be so, which he denied, what had the traversers done ?
—( Hear, hear.) Had they struck off any but Protestants ?
( Item., hear.) lie did not blame them for doing so.—( Hear,
hear.) They were entitled to adopt such a course.—(Hear. )
If a party thought A would be better for him than B, the
constitution of the country gave him the power of striking A
off the list, and God forbid that it should be otherwise.—
( Hear, hear.) He hoped that he had now disposed of this
question of striking off jurors.---( Hear, hear.) But then it
was said that it was a matter of certainty that it was im-
possible for Catholics to have a fair trial in Ireland.—( Hear.)
He would appeal to that House, he would appeal to the
country, whether the late trials had not been conducted in the
greatest spirit of fairness.—( Hear, bear, and cries of
s. oh eh.") Hon. Gentlemen might sneer—( Hear, hear)—
but this lie would assert, that no law had been strained, the
charge of the Chief Justice had been most impartial—(Hear,
bear, and cries of " Oh, oh")--and it was not fair on the
part of members of the legal profession in that House to use
the privilege they possessed to endeavour, if possible, to in-
, diet a slur on those who administered the law of the land.
—(Hear, hear ) The law had been framed long since ; the
Chief Justice, in summing up to the jury, did not pronounce
his own opinion—( llear, hear)—but the unanimous opinion
of the whole Bench.—( Hear.) Then with respect to the jury,
he believed there was not one marlin that House that would not
say that they had shown, in the most praiseworthy manner,
their determination not to violate their oaths—( Hear, hear)—
and before they pronounced their verdict of guilty, they acted
with the greatest discrimination.—( Hear, hear.) There was
no haste on their part—( Hear, hear)—amid no man could tell
him that the jury had not employed their time and attention
fully to consider the ease of the traversers.—( Hear, hear.) Well,
these trials had taken place ; they had been conducted by the
Government in the greatest spirit of fairness—(Hear, hear,
and " Oh, oh")—and had been brought to a conclusion with-
out a violation of the public peace.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.")
Such being the case, was it right—was it just—to come
forward and ask for a Committee of Inquiry__( The
Noble
Lord who had brought forward the present motion had ex-
pressed in general terms his resolutions.—(Hear, hear.) In
doing so he had stated his pure veneration of justice.—(Hear,—(Hear,
hear.) He (Lord Stanley) agreed with all lie had said with
respect to that subject ; but he could not accede to what had
Inquiry?—(The
been stated by the Noble Lord with respect to the Govern-
ment.—( Hear, hear.) If it was meant to be inferred that the
Government, in the late trials, had connived at injustice, he
,
denied the imputation with the utmost disdain. 'I he Noble
Lord had told them that the franchise was wretchedly confined,
and that the people, in order to vote had to go
great distances.
The Noble Lord had said the franchise ought to be increased.
so as to meet the wishes of the people of Ireland. Now, if he,
were to take the wishes,of the people of Ireland, as they were
expressed by their leader Mr. O'Connell, he (Lord Stanlede,
y)
would say that he would not take Mr. O'Connell as his gul
—( Hear.) Tho Noble Lord saidof
, why not place the people
Ireland on an equality with the people of England as regarded
the franchise? lie would answer the Noble Lord, that
if the
Registration Law in force in this country was put into open
action in Ireland, with the English interpretation and quaFtica-
tion, it would, instead of increasing very materially diminish
the existing franchise in that country.—
(Hear, hear.
had spoklt was
en on
further stated by several Hon. Members who
o contentment
fthor Ir ee othland,er side,as thlong as
there was no lastins
the Protestant Cg peacehurcsh:l Eetablishment
answer
existed there.—(Hear, hear.) Did the Noble Lord
that declaration? It was a very exciting question to bring
forward at any time, but especially dangerous at the present
moment, unless they knew the result. The Noble Lord dif-
fered widely from those who'now joined with him ; echoed by
those Hon. Members, he did not hesitate to bring into this
subject topics which were highly calculated to increase the dis-
content of the people, and which could not, by any possibility,
produce any practical result. Now, it the responsibility of
office were thrown upon the shoulders of the Noble Lord, ho
would not, he could not, ho dire not, propose the measures,
the Landlord and Tenant
Commission,
without which lie now declares it is impossible to think of satis-
fying the Irish people. Could anything be more miserable—
more wretched—than the suggestions or propositions thrown
out by
the Noble
N
Lord?
He attacked
expressions well calculated to inflame
balnedused
the tenantry of Ireland, and then turned round and said it was
a most difficult question.—(Hear, hear.) He did not say lee
could propose a remedy, but, if asked for one, the Noble Lord
could only say, " increase the number of stipendiary magis-
trates."—(Hear, hear.) It was a most lame and impotent
conclusion for the leader of a party, for one who had been a
or impair her revenue, but he thought
Minister of the Crown, and hoped to be one again.—( Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord said he did not wish to destroy the
uoarl
ot y,rl
thehe wouldm more
r e
Protestant Church
she had too much wealth. my principle, said the Noble Lord,
Protestant Church, or
is equality between all religious denominations:; but yet, when
this high sou,nhdet jat
Catholicof Church might be
among the Catholics, and the
divide seven-eighths of the re-
venues third to each, endowedof the Established Church might the present revenues , be
divided and distributed, viz., ov‘-'
, rods. among the Protestants,
impracticable
tmerhta cuttle°eanble revenuesit vrac
lip
_real question was, would
vster Catholics,.rliputes of principlet ieedi
)oP)
for
teeeslbtu3aalnieittr
yica,
to divide
r
other eighth between Protestants and Presbyterians.—( Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland had
ques-
tion of the appropriation c aus, , 'e Noble Lprd said,
spoken out, and spoken truly. It was not the wretched
the or would they not destroy the Protestant Church in Ire-
landul newer give any content.
?—(Hear, hear.) The Act of Un;or, contained a provi-
sion, and no provision was More stringent in that Act than that
which guaranteed the secmiti of the Protestant Church Este-
bliArnent. The Nehle Is 4 then Plied trem the eddress of
both Houses of Parliament, anti frogs tilt-, Act of Union itself, pas,
sages in which the security of the Protestant Cherch Was Rua-
: ranteeds fle also qnoted froth the SrePh of Mr. Grettao, in ISI3,
in intioducinfhis confidence thm
4 Bill for the rPlll°Val Roman Catholic disabili-
ties, in which re expressed the securities of thp
Protestant Church would be strengthened and maintained by
admitting Catholics to equal rights. The Noble Lord quoted
from a .6.eiaration Ifia(l4 ley the Catholics of Ireland in 17571
t l'eot disavowed ••
in '4lOOllll (14.cIiiin0
summer 44' iiitention gf Y9.11.P.-7 the Prefee.einf tech
Establishment; but that they write auinititl eguMitY
of civil rights with their Protestant fellow countrymen, they
would support the Protestant Church as established by law,
and would not endeavour to injure or impair it. In ISM, the

Roman Catholics declared, in their petition to the House, that
they did not in any way seek to injure the rights, privileges, or
paso sbsye slsai,orns
established
pertaining ; to the
thattheir
bishops is hoii o
petition
r clergy
warg y
sa
no f the
humble
Church
ap-
plication, praying that they might be governed by the same
laws, have the same privileges and be admitted to a participation
in the same civil rights as their countrymen of a different persuasion
In 1824, Dr. Collins said he believed, and would make a
solemn declaration, that there was not the slightest disposition
on the part of the Catholic hierarchy or clergy to disturb the
rights, privileges, or possessions of the Protestant Church, and
that he was satisfied they would not seek to disturb it. In 1826,
another declaration was published by the Roman Catholic
bishops, stating that they solemnly determined to uphold all
the rights and privileges of the Church—that they considered
the Reman Catholics did not entertain any feelings against
the Established Church, and that they regarded all the revenues
and temporalities of the Church as established as the property
of those on whom they were settled by law.—( Cheers from the
Tory benches.) He had been told by Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site that this property had been plundered from the Reman
Catholic clergy, and consequently should in justice be restored,
and that until this were done the Catholics would not, nor
ought not to be content.—( Loud cheers from the Tory
benches, answered by " No, no," from the Opposition.) It
might be convenient just now for Hon. Members to call out
" No, no" at this moment, but he was sure there were Hon.
Gentlemen on the other side of the House who would long
hesitate before they would consent to any measure that would
tend to thisresult.—( Cheers and laughter from the Ministerial
benches.) That former declaration had been over and over
again made by the Hon. Member for Sheffield.
Mr. WARD rose to explain, but was, owing to the noise,
vociferation, and cries of "Order" from the Tory benches, quite
inaudible in the gallery. _ _ _

Lord STANLEY said he had quite forgotten the principle
which the Hon. Member had laid down. He (Lard Stanley)
would allude to that by and bye. Previous to the passing of
the Emancipation Act, his Majesty, in his speech at
the opening of the session, in 18211, said—" They (the Par-
liament) were to consider, solemnly, whether those, and what
enactments against the Roman Catholics of Great Britain
could be removed with safety to the Church, as established by
law ; and to the rights and privileges of Protestants bishops
and clergy of this realm, for those institutions which should
ever be supported." Such were the words of his Majesty in
1829 ; and, in reply to this speech of his Majesty, the House of
Commons did not content itself with acknowledging the
speech ; it also stated that these were institutions which should
ever be maintained in their integrity, and stating that
that House thanked his Majesty for his gracious announce-
ment of his determination to support them. So far as it was
possible to be bound by a solemn declaration—by a declara-
tion as strong as it was possible to embody in language—that
declaration of their intention to support that Church, had been
made by Parliament. Nay, even that declaration on the part
of the Roman Catholics, one and all, had been given that
they had not the slightest intention to weaken the Church.—
( Hear, hear, and cheers.) That was the language used
previous to emtticipation, and his Right Hon. Friend at the
head of the Government declared that he trusted in their pro-
fessions, and rejected a proposal made by a Right Hon. Friend
of his, now no more, to prevent Catholics from legislating on
any subject which might affect the Established Church. His
Right Hon. Friend the First Lord of the Treasury said he had
framed the oath sufficiently stringenti,w icot jhhieevaedndhot
adhere
etcpi:rtemeoveein,
titos declarationstwohrei
sg onr.eae-1
determination.rf i t
the anticipated
1 Catholics,
The
thats ut
j eae nthdwe
which he trusted would not be considered offensive to any
Roman Catholic, because he thought a Catholic had as good
a right to legislate upon any subject as a Protestant, provided
only that lie adhered to what he considered a conscientious
conviction. After this statement, he thought the course he
should pursue could not be deemed offensive, and that he had a
right to quote the oath required to be taken by Roman Catholic
Members of Parliament, and which had been enacted for the
protection of the rights of the Protestant Church. The
Noble Lord then read the oath amidst much cheering from
the Ministerial benches, and continued to say this was the
oath which had been taken by the Roman Catholics, and
he thought the spirit of it must be evident to every per-
son. He again said he had no intention to impute any want
of conscientious principle to the Catholic gentlemen, but still
he thought that the question of supporting the Established
Church was one of too much importance not to require the
utmost precaution. The Hon. Member had alluded (as we
understood, from the manner in which he dropped his voice) to
the Settlement Act.

Mr. WARD (amidst much noise and confusion)—The in-
ference put on my expressions are not correct. What I
stated was that since the battle of the Beyne the Irish had
never been averse to the Act of Settlement.
Lord S rANLEY said he was going on to explain when the
Hon. Member interrupted him, that the Hon. Gentleman had
since withdrawn those expressions which had fallen from him
in the heat of debate. But he (Lord Stanley) did not think the
Hon. and Learned Member for Liskeard had very much im-
proved the case, because he said that the oath was unnecessary,
seeing that the intention of that oath was to exclude the Roman
Catholic descendants of the House of Stuart.
Mr. C. BULLER—I did net say a word about the oath.
Lord STANLEY—The Hon. Gentleman said that the ob-
ject of the Act of Settlement was to exclude the Roman Ca-
tholic descendants of the house of Stuart, but the house of
Stuart was extinct, consequently the Act of Settlement was a
dead letter. How then could this be an insult to the Roman
Catholics, seeing that it was to operate against a
Roman Catholic family which did not exist ? Was
it not so ? It was not because this country felt
that Roman Catholics were not fit to enjoy civil liberty that
such an imposition was placed upon them. With regard to him.
self he could say that he was prepared, and he was sure that her
Majesty's Government were prepared, to give the same privi-
leges to the Roman Catholics that were enjoyed by Protestants.
But they would never consent to the destruction of the Pro-
testant Establishment.—( Cheers. ) He did not think that it
was at all inconsistent, in doing the fullest justice to the Roman
Catholics, and in removing their grievances, if such grievances
remained—it was not inconsistent with the removal of those
grievances, if, at the same time, they firmly maintained the ex.
istence of the Protestant Church.—(Cheers.) What was it that
the Roman Catholics asked with regard to the existence of
the Established Church ? Did they ask to be endowed with
the proceeds of the Protestant Establishment? No such thing.
They would refuse it. They would not take it if it were offered.
They would neither take a division nor the whole. They
did not want the plunder that had been taken from them to
be given back to them. They did not ask for the violation of
all those prescriptive rights which had been acquired by a pos-
session of three hundred years. What, then, did they ask ?
They refused to enter into an alliance with the Protestant
Establishment—that Establishment which submitted to the law.
How, then, could the Catholic Chnrch claim or ask to be
placed on an equality with the Protestant Establishment?
The Noble Lord ( Lord John Russell) said the Catholic Bishops
ought to be placed on an equality with the Protestant Bishops.
Did the Noble Lord mean that thoso Bishops should have seats
in the House of Lords? He (Lord Stanley) would like to
know that.

Mr. C. WOOD—No, he did not.
Lord STANLEY—Then the Noble Lord denied that inten-
tion, which had been imputed to him by an Hon. Gentleman
who was sitting immediately by him. But if the Noble Lord
did intend to advocate the admission of Roman Catholic Bishops
into the House of Lords, did ho mean that those Bishops should
be appointed by the Crown ? No such thing ; they would be
the appointments of a foreign potentate.—(Hear, and
cheers. ) If, then, they refused this alternative, what
became of their equality ! Would they remove the Protestant
Bishops from the House of Lords.—( Cheers from the Opposi-
tion. ) That was a favourite doctrine with some gentlemen
opposite. Why did they not try their hand in this matter, and
bring forward a motion on the subject ? He would be glad for
them to take the sense of the House of Commons, and the peo-
ple of England, upon a motion for the exclusion of the Bishops
from the House of Lords. He (Lord Stanley) trusted that the
Noble Lord opposite did not represent the Roman Catholics of
Ireland; but sure he was, that whether he did or not, the
sweeping propositions he had brought forward, amply proved
that lie did not represent the Protestants of this country.
Ile ( Lord Stanley) would not support anything in the
way of compromise inconsistent with the maintenance
of the Protestant Establishment. He had been particularly
sorry to hear the Honourable Member for Kildare (Mr.
More O'Ferrall) repeat the reflection which had been cast on
the Lord Chancellor by the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell), that
he had been raised to his present position on account of his
hostility to the Irish people. He regretted to hear that senti-
ment fall from the Noble Lord ; but he believed that it had
been made in the midst of a very excited speech ; and he was
sure that it was not the deliberate opinion of the Noble Lord.
But lie regretted more deeply having heard that sentiment
fall from the Honourable Member for Kildare, because
it showed that it was a deliberate opinion of the
tkhnee knew no
Honourable Member.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman
said his hostility to the Established Church in Ireland was not
a religious one. His objection was that the Protestant had so
much power of interference in secular affairs. He said that if
he wanted a power of attorney, he was obliged to obtain the
signature of a Protestant clergyman. Now, he (Lord Stanley )
otetstiaint clergyt hiswerewoul d
correct,ha
vbut n
oo fth
objectioni this he wtaos certain,the
abolition th at
of such a practice; on the contrary, he believed that they would
feel much indebted to any one who would abolish such a custom.
Well. then, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman said that the
certificates of marriages and of baptism must be obtained
from a Protestant clergyman. Now, what was the grievance
in that respect ?—( Hoar, hear.) He felt that he was tres-
passing too much.—(" No.") But if there were any grievance
really affecting the Roman Catholics in Ireland, he wished to
show that her Majesty's Government were disposed to remedy
it.—( Tory cheers._) In England, before 1836, there was a
real grievance in respect to marriage and baptism— (Hear,
hear)—for the law was that a Roman Catholic clergyman or a
Dissenting minister could not celebrate marriage except in
the presence of a clergyman of the Established
Church, and, according to the forms of that Church.
In Ireland, no such grievance existed now. But on
the contrary, a marriage by a Roman Catholic priest, accord-
ing
to the forms of his own Church, was perfectly valid ; and
if any question arose in a court of lax, the evidence of the
Roman Catholic clergyman would be legal and complete proof.
—( Hear, hear.) What, then, was it that the Right Hon.
Gentleman required? The certificate of the minister of the
Established Church was at present necessary, because he was
obliged to keep the register. And was the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman sure that the Catholic clergy would be willingt o under-
take the duty of keeping the register ? Was he quite sure that
they would not say " If you place us in that position, and im-
pose upon us the labour and responsibility of keeping the
register, we would rather be without any advantage which it
bt
h e 2, i
of t
aeh bye i r
religion.ligiol,
might confer?—( hear.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite knew well
that there was no question of greater difficulty, and that, in a
Committee of the House of Lords last year, copious evidence
was taken upon this subject ; but that evidence had not yet
been published, because, as he believed, the inquiry had pot
yet been completed.—( Hear.) Another statement from the
other side of the House was that the )roman Catholic clergy
would not accept an endowment from the State. Now he
thought that the objection was not confined to one party in the
case. In the first place he was not aware that it was intended
to offer them any endowment—(Cheers and laughter)—and,
secondly, he believed that, on the part of the great body of the
people
in this country, there was a very great disinclination to
any such grant. The Hen. Gentleman had spoken with eat
great
contempt of a proposition which appeared to him (Lard
Stanley) to carry with it a very great recommen-
dation. That was, to give to the Catholic priest-
hood, and their flocks, a greater security for property,
wlitch might be voluntarily endowed in their Cht4cll, and
this could he done without offending the feelings of the Pro-
testant people in this country. The propo3ition was to en-
able the Catholic clergy, or rather persons in trust for them,
to
yholdß.oin real
a
in the same manner as it was held in this
country
property in
and Dissenters. Before the passing pf
Wm. IV., real property was not allowed to be held
Catholic priests, lint Roman Catholics fpr the pur-
pose That • Act, however, gave them • the
power, and it was proposed to extend the provisions
of the AO to Ireland, 411 d ti, allow the Catholic gentry
atad Vptesl•ant Pissenters to endow their respective clergy,
This would give the Roman Catholic clergy a fixed status, a
power of acquiring property in land, which thor did nut at
present possen. This ought not be taken as any indication of
hostile feeling on the part of the Government towards the Ca-
tholics of Ireland.—(Tory cheers.) He would say, if there
were grievances affecting, the Catholics in ir.eland—it there
were any assital!ce which the Gov ,Inn-lent could 'dive iheM in
remoiing those griefanees --Ingots its dentlemeil eppositemig
thhilF‘tholl, they would pot find any want of that consideration
which was due to the priesthood of so large a portion of the
people.—( Tory cheers. ) But if it were truly the purpose of
the other side to extinguish, covertly but entirely, the Estah-
-1

lished Church in Ireland, he would ever raise his voice ageinst
that policy. [The Noble Lord than turned round to his seat
and appeared to be about to sit down, when an Hon. Member
rose and moved that
,the "debate be now adjourned," where-
upon Lord Stanley returned to the table with a book in his
hand, and said—Sir, I have not done yet.—( Great laughter.)
Before sitting iown, he would call to the recollection of the
House the sentiments of a Noble Lord opposite to him (Lord
Palmerston), who was then a member of her Majesty's Go.
vurnment—no, he begged pardon, not a member of her Ma-
jesty's Government, but one who had assisted that Government
lin carrying the Emancipation Bill into force. At that period
the Noble Lord said, and said most wisely, that
the changes which the Catholics aimed at could - only be
brought about by the consent of the whole neion. He might
suppose an administration introducing a measure against such
consent, but the end of it would be to prove that they were
tottering in their seats, and the effect would be to give to their
opponents ten times the strength which they might previously
have possessed—for every honest and independent Pro-
testant would stand by the institutions of the country,
and sweep with ignominy from their seats the men who
by such aids would endeavour to alter the ancientand admitted
limits of the Constitution. Such, in 1829, was the opinion of
the Noble Lord (Palmerston) as to the fate, and the well-
merited fate, of any Administration that would coalesce with
any party whose desire might be to weaken the Protes-
tant Constitution of these realms. He ( Lord Stanley) would
not use terms more strong; but this he would say, that while
with the bulk of the English people, he was most anxious to
preserve to, and respect, every civil right of the Catholic body.
there was another feeling he shared in common with them, and
that was a fixed and unalterable determination to maintain and
uphold, in every portion of the empire, the Protestant Estab-
lishment of the country.—(Loud cheers.)
The debate was then adjourned until Monday 'next.
STIPENDIARY MAGISTRATES—IRELAND.
Lord EBRINGTON moved for a return of the number of
stipendiary magistrates appointed in Iceland, from April, 1839,
to August, 1811.

Lord ELIOT took occasion, in assenting to the granting of
the return. to correct an error which had been made on the
subject. 'For that purpose, he begged to mention that four of
the magistrates mentioned in the return were appointed five
weeks previous to the dissolution of the late Government.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the return would show that between
the Ist of June and the Bth of August, seven new stipendiary
magistrates had been appointed by the Irish Government, and
one was appointed on the 7th of August, the very day, if he
mistook not, before that on which they retired from office.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that the Right Hon. Baronet
had availed himself of an erroneous return to prefer against
the late Government a charge, the gravamen of which was that
seven magistrates had been appointed by them in Ireland
under circumstances which led the House to have an impres-
sion that they were appointed not for the purpose of maintain•
ing peace in that country, but in order to effect a mere job.
It now appeared, that there were three vacancies, and that
they had only filled up those vacancies.
Sir J. GRAHAM said it was better to postpone the discus-
sion until the return was made.

Lord ELIOT said he had inadvertently been led to state
that the whole of these seven appointments were made between
the 15th of June and the 25th of August. It now
appeared that three of the magistrates were appointed
in the spring of 1841, and the other four between the 12th
of July and the 27th to 7th August. Four new magistrates
were appointed, he did not say far what purpose—in the last
five weeks during which the late Administration held office.
Mr. F. T. BARING said what appeared remarkable was
that the explanation of the Right Hon. Gentleman did not
confirm the statement of the Noble Lord. Ile would be glad
to know if the returns would show whether the appointments
were made to fill up vacancies, or whether they were new ap-
pointments ? It was stated that one appointment was made on
the very last day ; it might bo to fill up a vacancy caused by
death or resignation.
Sir J. GRAHAM—No, no.

Mr. F. T. BARING said he believed the practice of the
Treasury was to fill up all vacancies which occurred while the
Administration were in power.
. .

Lord ELIOT said he had searched the Government Ca.
zettes that morning, in which it was customary to state whether
appointments were new, or made in the room of others, and it
appeared that four of these were new appointments.—( Hear.)
Colonel SIBTHORP said he could make some allowance
for the soreness of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, but
he hoped that that soreness would not be removed by their
coming over to that side of the House.
In reply to a question from Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL,
Lord ELIOT said he would endeavour to ascertain for what
districts the magistrates in question had been appointed, and
whether they had been retained.
The return was then ordered.
The House then adjourned, at a Quarter to Ono.

THE COMPLETE SUFFRAGE
MOVEMENT.

The Council of the National Complete Suffrage Union
met at Birmingham on Monday ; the President in the
chair.

Most encouraging accounts were read from different
parts of the kingdom, regarding the rapid and satis-
factory progress which the Supply movement is making
in the public mind.

LETTER FROM MR. W. 8. CRAWFORD.
Mr. STuuos then read the following letter from Mr.
W. S. Crawford, which he had that morning received:—
"London, Feb. 10, 1844.
" Respected Friend,—l think it right to submit to you
a few observations on the present position of the move-
ment, which has been commenced in the House of Com-
mons, with a view to pressing forward the consideration
of grievances on motions of Supply. By a reference to the
division lists you will find that 40 Members voted in sup-
port of that principle of action, taking the two divisions I
conjointly. Out of these 40 Members you will observe
that three, who voted in favour of the first motion, voted
against the second motion; but, even if we are to suppose
that these gentlemen arerno longer to be included in our
lists, still there remain 37 Members, and there are some
Members whose support might be expected. It should
always be kept in mind in this movement, that a minority
cannot be justified in any course which would indicate
a determined opposition to a majority, unless it is based
on the position that the minority do truly represent the
people, and that the majority do not ; and this can only
be evidenced by the constitutional expression of the
people's voice in the form of petition, and by the com-
munication of the sentiments of constituencies to their
respective representatives ; but in such communications
allow me to add, that it is not right to ask them to sup-
port the detail of proceedings which any particular
Member might suggest or adopt ; but the constituencies
should insist on the principle that the complaints of
the people should be inquired into before the„Supplies
be voted, and that each Member should make such mo-
tions and take such steps, as in his judgment would be
most effective for the purpose.

" I had written so far before I was aware that notice
had been given by the Government to bring on the
Army and Navy Estimates in Committce of Supply
on Friday next. This is, I believe, a rapidity most un-
usual, if not unprecedented. The estimates are not
yet delivered, and cannot be in the hands of the
Members for some days. It is obvious that by this
course any possible expression of publib opinion on the
subject of the movement now commenced will be fore-
stalled ; but if, it be supposed that the fixing of this
early day was done with that object, it will be a proof
of the importance of the movement, and a stimulus to
greater exertion in carrying it forward. In order to
meet this proceeding of the Government, I have this
day given notice that I shall on Friday next move an
amendment on the motion of Supply, to the effect that
the consideration of the estimates' be postponed ;' this
motion will of course be lost, but it will be a stronger
foundation for a contest on the estimates, if the
Members representing popular constituencies feel
so disposed. In the meantime, I shall, as an
individual Member, keep up the system of pro-
ceeding to such extent as prudence and utility shall
seem to me to warrant. But I must remind you that
there is an obstacle to a single Member, or a few Members.
pushing a proceeding of this kind to any great extent,
without a sufficient weight both of internal and external
support, lest it might be made a plea by the majority to
swamp those privileges of the Commons which arein-
tended as the best securities of the rights of the people,
At the same time, I am convinced that if a body of
Members, to the number which the late divisions show
were determined to act together, and were backed by a
sufficient power of the public voiee, no Government could
stand against them for any length of time and refuse re-
dress of grievances ; and I am equally convinced that
there are no other means in prospect by which that re-
dress can be obtained,

" Believe me, with the highest respect, your Friend,
" WM. SHARMAN CRAWFORD.
" To Joseph Sturge, &c. &c."
Mr. STURGE expressed his high satisfaction with the
prudent and persevering exertions of Mr. Crawford,
with the conduct of those who hail supported him, and
the healthy state of public feeling on the subject. lie
traced the history or the movement, and expressed his
anxious wish that the friends of the cause would feel
that the good work was but a beginning, and that they
would continue to agitate until the opinion of the majo-
rity_of the people were distinctly known.
Mr. J. C. PERRY moved, and Mr. W. MORGAN se-
conded, the following resolutions, which were passed
unanimously .-
1. That this Council congratulate the friends of com-
plete suffrage upon the remarkable success which has
attended the introduction into Parliament of the pro-
posal for redressing the grievances of the people before
voting thelSupplies, and they derive great encouragement
from the fact that forty Members have recorded their
votes in favour of that proposal.
2. That this Council have read the letter of Mr. Shar-
man Crawford to their President, dated the 10th inst.,
with great interest, and beg to assure that gentleman of
their unabated confidence, and the deep gratitude they
entertain for his faithful services in the cause of the
people, and advocacy of their claims, and they rejoice
that an instrument for enforcing those claims is now in
the hands of the patriotic Members of Parliament who
really represent the people,
3. That this COMO look forward with the deepest
anxiety to the discussion about to take place on the
ArrnyEstimates, and in anticipation of the amendment of
which Mr. Crawford has given notice being defeated,
trust that the friends of the people in Parliament will
use every means which the forms of the House will per-
mit to resist the grant of Supplies even for a limited
period, until an assurance be obtained that the master
grieValWO CO' non-representation shall be considered,
with a view to its complete redress.

DEATII7OF VISCOVNT SIDMOUTII.---On the 15th
instant, died, at the White Lodge, Richmond Park, in the
87th year of his age, Henry Additlgton, Viscount Sidmouth.
He was twice married; first to Ursula Mary, daughter
and co-heir at' Leonard Hammond, Esq., by whom
he has left one son, William Leonard, the present
Viscount, married to Mary, daughter of the Reverend
John Young, by whom lie has eleven children; and
four dangliws, Mary Anne Ursula; Frances, wife of the
Hon. and ite.Y. Oeil•ge rellew, Dean of Norwich ; Charlotte,
wife of the Rev. Horace Gore Currie; and Harriet, wife of
Thomas Barber Wall, Esq. His Lordship married, secondly,
Marianne, daughter, and at lengqi. heir, OWilliatn•Seott,
Lord - Stowell, 4111 '4'4ol.paS Towusend, Esq.,
by 711.ni Lordship 40 i4ssue. More than
telyPYqt,Ts. 4.VQre
_bm death, Lord Sidmouth resigned
a pe`asten cif time thousand pounds per annum, which
was secured to him by law, and which he mOt have re-
tained to his last hours ; hnt vitic.h, feeling that from
altered circtnustanoas be no 'longer required, h¢thoug4 it, right ielinqnish. He had gratividly witk--
4ant frau üblic euidoppeiltet 4440 440 4.ereu
• •

from honorary office. From the High Stewardship
of he_ retired three. or four years ago, and
latterly retained only the situations of one of the Elder
Brethren of the Trinity House, one of the Governors of the
Charter House, one of the Benchers of Lincoln's Inn, and
Deputy Ranger of Richmond Park. He was Speaker of the
House of Commons from- May, 1789, to March, 1801 ; First
Lord of the Treasury, and Chancellor of the Exchequer,
-from March, 1801, to May, 1804 ; Lord President of the
Council; 1805 ; Lord Privy Seal, 1806 ; and 'Secretary of
State for the Home Department, from 1812 to 1822.
DEATH Or VICE-ADMIRAL EDWARD STIRLING
DICKSON.—We have to record the decease of another veteran
flag-officer of the Royal navy, Vice-Admiral of the White,
Edward Stirling Dickson, which event took place on the
28th of January.

STRANGE OCCURRENCE.—MiSS ---, whose death
appeared in the Mercury of Friday last, was cousin to her
employer, Mr. —. Confinement had wrought so unfa-
vourably upon her health that last summer she went to the
country. Having been there some time, she received a letter,
stating that unless she returned immediately, her situation
would not be kept for her. She did return, and gradually
grew worse. On the day of her death she appeared to be
labouring more severely than she had before done under the
influence of her malady. Her cousin desired her to go home,
but she was too unwell, and died in her clothes. Hei
mother, a poor woman, was sent for. She wished the corpse
to remain there until a coffin could be obtained, but Mr.
would not consent, saying, "Do you think I would
have a corpse in my. house ?" " Well," replied the
distressed mother, " let me go first and inform the
people I lodge with of poor -----'s death." She went,
and scarcely had she entered the house, than a cab
stopped by the door, and the cabman called out, " I
have a passenger for you." He then descended and opened
the door of the cab, when a sight presented itself which made
him " blush for them," to use his own words. The corpse
had fallen from the seat, and its nose was much disfigured.
The front part of the dress had been cut open, to allow the
poor girl breathing room, and when the corpse was seen in
the cab, the dress, from above to the waist, had dropped
down, so that the upper- part_ was literally naked! this
unfeeling wretch refused to assist the poor mother with the
lOan of the means to bury her, although the poor girl had
provided for that before hand, but the party who had the
money was not in town at the time. And she was heard
to say, "I can die happy, because I know I have money to
buryime with !"—The above has been communicated from
a highly respectable party, but we think it only justice to
say that we- have heard a somewhat different statement of
the same case, though, we fear, the main incident is only too
true.—Liverpool Mercury
RECEPTION OF MR.. OTON3ELL AT THE HOUSE
OF COMMONS.—The approaches to the House presented, last
night, a most animated spectacle, a large crowd of per-
sons having assembled, evidently for the special purpose of
witnessing the arrival of Mr. O'Connell. The Hon. Member
reached the vicinity of the House at about half-past four. On
being recognised, he was greeted with tremendous ap-
plause, and so completely surrounded by the throng of
his admirers, that he had great difficulty in making his way
to the entrance-door. Altogether his reception was most
enthusiastic. The Duke of Wellington, who arrived shortly
After Mr. O'Connell, was greeted with clamorous shouts of
dirapprobation, mingled with partial cheers.
COURSE OF EXCHAN

Amsterdam CF. 12 6
Ditto, at sight l2 4
Rotterdam 2U. 12 6i.
Antwerp 25 95
Hamburgh M.B. 13 15
Altona l4 0
Paris, 3 days' sight 25 65
Ditto, 3 months 25 85
Marseilles
Bourdeaux 25 90
Frankfort on Maine 122

Petersburgh, 3Us 36
I;erlin 7

Vienna, effec. fl. 3 M 955
rieste, ditto, 9 56
Madrid 36/t

Cadiz

Bilbao 36*
Barcelona 36
Seville —

'GE.—(YESTERDAY.)
Gibraltar —
!Leghorn 3O 75
Genoa 25 95
Milan —
Venice........
Naples 39*
Palermo, per oz , 118 i
Lisbon s3e
Oporto 53
Rio Janeiro 23
Bahia 23
Buenos Ayres —
NewYork,2ldys sight
Philadelphia —
PRICES OF BULLION, PER OZ.
Foreign Gold, bars...E3 17 9
Portugal Gold Coin 3 17 5
New Doubloons..... 0 0, 0
New Dollars 0 4 9
Silver in Bars 0 4 11i

FRIDAY N IGHT'S GAZETTE.
ST. JAMES'S PALACE, JAW. 31, 1844.

The Queen has been pleased, on the noothiation of Lord
Forester, to appoint Francis Ellis, Esq., as one of her Majesty's
Hon. Corps of Gentlemen-at-Arms, vice James Norton Smith,
who retires.

FOREIGN-OFFICE, FEB. 9, 1844.
The Queen has been graciously pleased to appoint John
Francis Davis, Esq., to be her Majesty's Plenipotentiary and
Chief Superintendent of British trade in China.
CROW N.OFFICE, FEB. 16. •
MEMBER RETURNED TO SERVE IN THIS PRESENT
PARLIAMENT.

COUNTY OF TlPPERAtiV.lllNicholas Maher, of Turtulla, in
the said county of Tipperary, Esq., in the room of Valentine
Maher, Esq., deceased.
WAR-OFFICE, FEB. 16.
4th Dragoon Guards—Captain J. T. Bowdoin, from 19th
Foot, to be Captain, vice Clerk, who exchanges, 16th Feb.
Ist Dragoons—Assistant.Surgeon J. Grogan, M. B. from
66th Foot, to be Assistant-Surgeon, vice Drummond, who' re-
signs, 16th Feb.
6th Dragoons—Surgeon Wm. Milligan, M. D., from
76th Foot, to be Surgeon, vice W. Daunt, M.D., who retires
upon half-pay, 16th Feb.
7th Light Dragoons--Lieutenant E. G. Cubitt, from 73d
Foot, to be Paymaster, vice M'Carty, deceased, Feb. 16.
17th Light Dragoons—Regimental Sergeant-Major J. Ste-
phenson to be Adjutant, with the tank of Cornet, vice Lind-
say, deceased, Feb. 16.
Ist, or Grenadier Regiment of Foot Guards--Lieut. and
Captain the Hon. A. F. Foley to be Captain and Lieutenant-
Colonel, by purchase, vice Lord W. Thyme, who retires ;
Ensign and Lieut. H. B. Trelawny to be Lieutenant and Cap.
tain, by purchase, vice Foley • Ensign H. F. Ponsonby, from
49th Foot, to be Ensign and Lieutenant, by purchase, vice
Trelawny, Feb. 16.
Ist Regiment of Foot—Lieut. C. P. Mackenzie, front 41A
Foot, to be Lieutenant, vice Wells, who exchanges, Feb. 16.
3d Foot—W..l. Macfarlane, Gent., to be Assistant-Sur-
geon, vice Stevenson, promoted in the 18th Foot, Feb. 16.
• 7th Foot— Ensign C. W. W. Lord Langford, from 85th
Foot, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Beauclerk, pro.
`meted, Feb. 16.
9th"Foot—Capt. C. R. Shuckburgb, from half-pay Un-
attached, vice Brevet-Major W. H. Hartman, who exchanges,
receiving the difference; Capt. J. Johnstone, from half-pay
70th Foot, to be Captain, vice C. R. Shuckburgh, who ex-
changes; Lieut. V. V. Ballard to be Captain, by purchase,
vice Johnstone, who retires; Ensign E. Morton to be Lieu-
enant, by purchase, vice Ballard ' • C. K. Richardson, Gent.,
to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Morton. Feb. 16.
12th Foot—Capt. W. Bell to be Major, without purchase,
vice Sir R. A. Douglas, Bart., deceased; Lieut. F. G. Hun-
ley to be Captain, vice Bell, Nov. 2.
19th Foot—Capt. M. Clerk, from the 4th Dragoon Guards,
to be Captain, vice Bowdoin, who exchanges, Feb. 16.
22d Foot—A .G. Walch, Gent., to be Ensign, without pur-
chase, vice Hyde, who resigns, Feb. 16.
4i st Foot—Lieut. G. G. Wells, from the lit Foot, to be
Lieut. vice Mackenzie, who exchanges, Feb. 16th.
46th Feet—Capt. H. H. F. Clarke,from half-pay Unattached,
to be Captain, vice Lachlan 111‘Pherson, whose appointment
has been cancelled, Feb. 16th.
59th Foot—R. A. Cox, Gent., to be Ensign, without pur-
chase, vice Prior, deceased, Feb, 16th.
7lst Foot—Ensign A. C. Parker to be Lieutenant, by pur-
chase, vice Dance, who retires ; E. T:- Scutlamore, Gent., to
be Ensign, by purchase, vice Parker, Feb. 16.
76th Foot—Captain A. Campbell, from half-pay 7251 Foot,
to be Captain, vice G. P. Pickard, who exchanges, receiving
the difference, Feb. 16.
88th Foot—Serjeant-Major S. Dunning to be Ensign, with.
out purchase, vice Mills, appointed Quartermaster ; Ensign
T. H. Mills to be Quartermaster, vice Mills, deceased, Feb. 16.
90th Foot--Captain F. H. Hart, from half-pay 84th Foot,
to be Captain, vice J. D. G. Tulloch, who exchanges;
Lieut. C. M. Chester to be Captain, by purchase, vice Hart,
who retires ; Ensign J. W. B. Peddie to be Lieutenant, by
purchase, vice Chester ; T. G. Meredith, Gent., to be En.
sign by purchase, vice Peddie, Feb. 16.
98th Foot—Assistant-Surgeon C. Cowen, from 18th Foot,
to be Surgeon, vice Bardin, deceased, Feb. 16.
Rifle Brigade—R. Heaviside, Gent., to be Second Lieute.
nant, by purchase, vice Glin, promoted, Feb. 16.
Cape Mounted Riflemen—Brevet-Major A. B. Armstrong to
be Major, without purchase, vice W. Burney, who retiree
upon full pay ; Lieutenanant G. E. Cannon to be Captain.
vice Armstrong ; Ensign J. T. Bissett, to be Lieutenant, vice
Cannon ; C. E. Phillpotta, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase,
vice Hartshorn, appointed to the 24th Foot, Feb. 16.
UNATTACUED.—To be Lieutenant-Colonel, without pur-
chase—Brevet Col. IL B. Macpherson, from Major ball-pay
71st Foot, Feb. 16.
To be Wien, without purchase—Brevet Col. R. Llueltyn,
from Captain half-pay 28th Foot; Brevet Lieut. Col. J.
Jones, from Captain half-pay 15th Light Dragoons ; Brevet
Lieut. Col. Sir J. S. Lillie, from Captain half-pay 31st Foot ;
Brevet Major R. Kelly, from Captain half-pay 40th Foot,
Feb. 16,
BANYET.—To be Majors in the Army—Captain J. John.
stone, 9th Foot, Jan. 10, 1837; Captain F. 11. Bart, 90th
Foot, Juno 98, 1838.

Hosrzwas. STAFF. —Staff Surgeon of the first class G.
Barclay, M.D., to have the local rank of Deputy Inspector-
General of Hospitals in China, Feb. 16, 1844.1
OFFICE OF ORDNANCE, Fix. 14.
Royal Regiment of Artillery—Second Capt. J. W. Ormsby,
to be Adjutant, vice Warde, who resigns the Adjutantcy only,
May 26, 1843 ; First Lieut. C. W. Smith, to be Seemid
Captain, vice Knowles, deceased ; Second Lieut. A. C. Pigott,
to be First Lieutenant, vice W. Smith, Nov. 8, 1843.
The following places have been duly authorized for solemnis-
ing marriages therein, pursuant to the Act of the 6th and 7th
William IV., cap. 85:—
Sion, Conway, Carnarvonshire.
Old Baptist ChapeyStratton St. Margaret's, Wiltshire.
BANKRUPTS.
HENRY WALKER, cordwainer, Luton, Beafoulshirt.
Ito surrender Feb. 22, at half-put eleven, and March 29, si
half-past twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Whitmore,
official assignee, Basinghall-street ; Lambert, Uray's Inn.
JAMES HANNEN. tallow miters Little Britain, City,
Feb. 27, at one, and March 29, at twelve, at the Court of Bank-
ruptcy. Belcher, official assignee ; awrence and Plews.
Bucklersbury.
HENRY WILLIAM SMITH, woollen draper, Tothill-
street, Westminster, Feb. 21, at half-past eleven, and March
27th, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Johnson,
official assignee, Basingball-street ; Lloyd, Milk-street, Cheap-
side.
RICHARD BECKLEY, grocer' Green-street, Hanover-
square, Feb. 27, at two, and March 29, at one, at the Court
of Ilankruptcy. Belcher, official assignee ; Jones, Gray's Inn-
square.
HENRY ROBERTS OSBORNE, grocer, Truro, Feb. 23,
and March 19, at twelve, at the Exeter District Court. Herna-
man, official assignee, Exeter ; Lockyer and Bulteel, Plymouth ;
Surr, Lombard-street, London ; Stokes, Truro; Moore,
Exeter.
MICHAEL MURPHY, grocer, Liverpool, March 2, and
29, at eleven, at the Liverpool District Court. Morgan, official
assignee, Liverpool ; Mason, Liverpool ; Willis,
.Hower, and
Willis, Tokenheuse-yard, ndon.
JOHN NOLDROYD, farmer, North-moor, Northumber-
laudshire, Feb. 28, at twelve, and March 28, at one, at the
Newcastle. upon-Tyne District Court. Baker, official assignee,
Neweastle-upon-Tyne ; Holme, Loftus and Younge, New Inn„
London ; Tinley, Tynemouth.
HENRY ITOLDEN, fuller's earth-dealer, Dewsbury,
Yorkshire, Feb. 28, and March 25, at eleven, at the Leeds Dis-
trict Court. Freeman, official assignee, Leeds; Richards,
Croydon; Scholes, Dewsbury ; Hall, Leeds.
ESTHER JONES, dealer in iron,
2NVcsft-Dhapriof-maewit ech'letuteaf:
fordshire. Feb. 24, at eleverkandMah Whitmore, i
at the ilirmiughem District Court.a
official
assignee.
Birmingham ; Giles, Gray's Inn-square, London ; Giles, Bir-
mingham.
tfe
thellm o
Birminghamn e: Nottingham,
p istr et Feb.c 0
Court,
Rowley, N tt.
andliEl4 h 22, Y
smith, Birmingham;
MITCHELL,i,
out,
C4ristie, official assignee, Birmingham; o Lughtst ;
TIHO/VIA4 NUTTALL, pork Weber, Rocildik, Feb. 27