The Sun.
London, England, 1828-03-21 00:00:00

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.

Lord EBRINGTON presented a petition from the pa-
rish of Killee, county Waterford, praying for Catholic
Emancipation.
Mr. O'BRIEN presented a similar petition from the in-
habitants of the county of Clare.
Mr. JAMES GRATTAN presented a petition from
certain Members of the Hibernian Joint Stock, praying
that the Bill for the incorporation of that Company way
not pass into a law.
Mr. JAMES GRATTAN also presented a petition
from the Roman Catholic Inhabitants of the united pa-
• riches of Kilkenny, against the., Vestry Bill.
Lord NORMANBY presented a petition from the inha-
bitants of Mahon, praying for a repeal of the stamp duties
on receipts.
Lord MOUNTCHARLES presented a petition from the
Catholic inhabitants of Culdall; county of Donegal, against
the Catholic disabilities.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the Catholics of
Ireland, to which he begged the particular attention of the
House. This petition, he had had for five weeks, but he
was unwilling to present it while they were engaged on an
important subject, which he trusted had been disposed of to

the satisfaction of the country; it was agreed to at an aggre-
gate Catholic meeting, and although it bore the signatures
of only a few thousands, among whom were Peers, mem-
bers of both learned professions and merchants, he believed it
spoke the sense of the whole Catholic population of Ireland
upon the subject to which the petition related. The de-
tails set forth in the petition were well worthy of atten-
tion, particularly when it was known that Ireland was
distracted by religious parties, without adding an-
other cause of irritation, by passing the Vestry Act of
7th George 11., which the petitioners wished to
have repealed. The petition stated that Ireland was
governed by a church establishment to which not more
than 700,000 persons, out of a population of seven millions,

belonged, and the interests of the whole population were
made subservient to the interests of those who belonged to
the church establishment. The petition stated that there
were in Ireland 22 Bishops and 1,300 Rectors, which Was
a Bishop to every 60 Rectors, and a Rector to every 500
Protestants; and that if the church establishment of Ire-
land were put upon the same footing as the church esta-
blishment of England as to their relative congregations,
the number of Bishops in Ireland would be but two, and
the number of Rectors three hundred and eighty, and this
calculation was made upon the supposition that the whole
population of England were members of the Established
Church. He thought this fact well worthy of attention,
particularly at a time when the House seemed disposed not
to adhere to institutions, however ancient, or however ne-
cessary when they were formed, if it could he shown to the
House that at the present day they were unnecessary. So
far from the clergy having a right to tax the Catholics to
contribute to their support, it appeared from Parliamentary
returns that the church property in Ireland was adequate
to their support ; 'from those returns it appeared that not
less than one million english acres were in the posses-
sion of the Church Establialiment in Ireland, and stating
the rental of that property at the average rental. Of land
in Ireland, it could not be less than one million an-
nually ; and as a proof of the enormous sums paid to Irish
Bishops, the petition stated an instance of a late Bishop
in that country, who, when he was promoted to the
Bench, was not worth 1/., but who at his death
had left a sum of 400,000/., which was accumu-
lated whilst Ike held that dignity. In addition
to dais property the Church derived an annual income of
2t0,0031. from 940 parishes out of 2,4,36 which had
commuted for their tithes, thus giving an annual income
of 3501. to each incumbent; and it was eitpleulated that, if
every parish were to commute, the income of each incum-
bent would average from 7001. to 8001. per annum, ex"
elusive of the sums arising from first fruits and othersour-
ces, which made the total annual income of the Irish Church
Establishment little short of 2,300,000/. Such being
the fact, he thought the prayer of the petitioners
to be relieved from the Vestry Taxes ought to be
wanted, and if that prayer were granted the Catholics of
Ireland would be relieved from an annual tax of 575,000/.
imposed upon them by persons of a different religions per-
suasion, and for purposes from which the Catholics derwal
no benefit, and in voting, which the Catholics were not al-
lowed to have a vote. . He should in order to give
the House an' idea of the nature and extent of those Vestry
talcs,tsx, read the item of a Vestry bill of a parish in the
county of Dublin set forth in the petition. The Bill
amounted to 8121., and was imposed by that Act of which
the Catholics prayed the repeal. The first item was 2001. for
the salaries of two curates for performing morning service.
Now it was well known that the average annual salary of
curates; in Ireland was from fifty to seventy-five pound:,
and there was not a doubt that the salaries in this in-
stance would have been more, if they had to be paid
by the Bishops or by the Protestants exclusively. The

next items were, 2 71. for the beadle, 36/. for the Sexton,
211. for his assistant, 36/. 18s. for teaching the parish
children to sing, and 15/. for brushes and mats for the use
of the Church. The latter sum was more than was expended
throughout the year by a gentleman of large fortune. The
next items were 601. for covering the communion table,
to which the payers of the tax had not access ; 60/. for
painting the church ; thirteen pounds fur prayer books,
never read by the Catholics; and 33/. for putting the church
in mourning for the death of the Duke of York.—
It was also represented that an estimate had been laid be-
fore a parish vestry for the erection of a church for 16,000/.
and yet that vestry built the church for 67,0001..---(Hear.)
—That of the 4-1 items charged under the 7th of George
Second only five items could have been assessed under
the previous Act of the 12th George the First, so
that thirty-six new items were made legal by the
present statute. In the parish of St. Andrew's, in the
city of Dublin, there was an additional charge of 300/. a-
year for curates for performing morning service.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con-
demned, as highly inconvenient, the custom of discussing
questions of great importance on the presentation of a pe-
tition.
He defended the existing measure as being a great
improvement on that which had preceded it.
Sir J. NEWPORT censured the existing law, as placing
too great a power in the hands of those who acted under it.
He conceived that no time could be improper for the intro-
duction and discussion of so important a question, and a
question which involved the right of taxing 4,000,000 or
5,000,000 of people without representation.
Sir R. INGLIS admitted that there had been irregu-
larities and infractions of the law under the old system,
but contended that they were not enough either in kind or
degree to warrant an exnactment which would have been
attended with greater evils than those it proposed to re-
medy. He complained that on occasions like the present,
the Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Newport), and others who
thought with hint, brought forward a certain number of
stock stories, ready cut and dried, for the purpose of making
out their case, anti that the Catholic Association had done
its utmost by its quackery to aggravate and inflame a
wound, at first of little importance. lie then read a
passage from a letter from Mr. O'Connell, and an ex-
tract from one of his speeches, in the latter of which that
Gentleman insisted that " the grievances of church rates
was a grievanFe exceeded by no other that was felt in
Ireland." The Honourable Mtaronet went on to examine
in some detail the extent of this grievance, and adverted to
several distinct cases, as made out by the Petitions and
Returns upon the table. The first was that of Drogheda,
which he argued was inapplicable ; and the next that of
Ferns, where 32/. had been charged for hangings in the
church; this sum, he contended, was not unreasonable, re-
collecting that Ferns was the residence of a great Ecclesi-
astic, and that the Church was the largest in the diocese.
He also adverted to the situation of the parish of Trelony,
as exhibited in a petition presented on the 11th of Feb.
anti contended that in all these cases the evil complained of
had been greatly exaggerated. If the fact were as Mr.
O'Connell stated, that this was the greatest -practical
grievance in Ireland, he congratulated that country on the
little it had to endure. He also argued, that much of the
money raised, as appeared by the Returns, was devoted to
benevolent purposes ; and in some cases the Catholic Schools
were supported, the Catholic Chapels repaired, and the
Catholic Priests paid out of the rates. On the whole, it
amounted in most instances to about 1 d. per Irish acre,
which was the sum of Mr. O'Connell's practical grievance.
Were it not invidious, he would ask what proportion this
rate bore to the rent of the land in Ireland, for which 12
guineas, six guineas, and three guineas per acre were paid ?
In the North of Ireland the amount of the rate was so
small, that it could only be stated in decimals. He re-
gretted that lunch of what bad recently passed upon this
subject had destroyed the harmony and good feeling for-
merly prevailing between the Protestant and Catholic
Clergy. The result of the whole of his inquiries was, that
a state of irritation had been produced, which Parliament
might find it difficult to allay.
Mr. J. GRATTAN defended the Catholic Association
from the charge of quackery or impropriety.
After a few words from Mr. S. RICE, the CHANCEEEOI4
of the EXCHEQUER. and Sir JOHN NYWPORT, the petition
was brought up, and ordered to lie on the table.
In moving that it should be printed,

Mr. HUME expressed a hope that the Right Hon. Se-
cretary for Ireland would, in the course of the Sessions, in•
troduce a Bill to amend the Act.--The petition was er•
dered to be printed.

Mr. HUME then presented a petition to the same effect
from the parishes of St. Micham and St. John, in the
city of Dublin.

Mr. A. DAWSON supported the prayer of the petition
—Ordered to lie on the table and be printed.

THE MALT ACT.

Colonel WOOD presented a petition from the maltsters in
Brecon against the Malt .petition from the Dis-
senters of Newbridge, in o,e .1 of Radnor, against the.
Corporatiori. and Teke 1-
LIMERICK.
Mr. W. PEEL presented a copy of the treaty of Lime-
rick, which was laid on the table, and ordered to be
printed.
Lord F. L. GOWER presented a copy of the minutes
of the proceedings before the' Privy Council in the appeal
cases from Berbice. —Ordered to be printed.

Mr. BRIGHT prevented a petition from a person in
Bristol, against the Stamp Duty Receipt Tax.

FOREIGN CORN.

Sir A. GRANT presented a return of all the accounts
of the prices of foreign corn, which had been received up
to the latest period at the Foreign Office from the British
Consuls abroad.—Ordered to be printed.
RIBANDS AT ELECTIONS.

and that the silk trade wastsahtne. eGHeooontirogvu.e—r
Mr. FYLER presented two petitions, one from the
manufacturers and weavers of Coventry, and the other sign-
e4 by 1,800 of the weavers of Spitelfields, praying for the
repeal of the Bill prohibiting the wearing of ribands at
elections. After observing that it was the Hon. Member
for Limerick who tacked the clause against the wearing of
ribands at elections to the Bill, which originally contem-
plated no such enactment,--and that, too, on the third
reading of the Bill ; the Hon. Member said he must inform
the House of the manner in which the Bill passed. The
Bill was brought up, like a great many others, at the
end of the Session, when many Honourable Gentlemen
had left town, and at two o'clock in the morning. There
were not at that time forty Members in the House, and
he knew that the highways and byways were search-
ed for two Members to complete that ominous number.—
He had often heard the "lon. Member for Limerick expa-
tiate with great eloquence and feeling on the infliction of
unjust penalties on the people, and particularly on the
people of Ireland, and he (Mr. Fyler) thought it strange
that that Hon. Member should have been the person to in-
troduce a penal law like this.—_(Hear, and a laugh,)—As
one of the professed objects of this enactment was to pre-
vent expense, he had looked back into the origin of
laws of such a nature, and had found that the first
of them was passed in the reign of Edward lII.
(Laughter)—at a remote period, when our commerce
was yet in its infancy. After observing that one
of the maxims of those who brought about the revolu-
Hothne,
itliaoondsofof 1688 was, wfoars,
thtehabtenpefiowt power ttsh,aes
antryu,sttbein
Member contended that this maxim was departed from
when such laws as these were passed, founded on selfish
theconsiderations,mecp pae d.
tandhe ben
Encouragementefi nott
oofntii
the working
dought
obaought considerations
stu gnt
hoa
ett
ihunf4rtsoaosrlgbttoi
oehvf
given
ntet whchteoeeol 1
soil
peoplefeoacc iroltee
com-
merce,
relatsng the origin of the silk
dnah,nititirici.re:iin:sinuoilltlfe.ttderAra.lei.ther adverted to what had
n
occasions in that House on the ttob( hruel thateigsden exotic.-..-
(Hear, ttrcsii, laotneoaiudnEncbio, ritngyltmaol , a y
princi-
ples of free trade, and contended that this Act was in direct
contradiction to those principles. It was not his inten-
tion then to enter into the discussion of the principles of
free trade. He did net mean to raise imaginary phan-
toms, or put up windmills for• the sake of turning them ;
but be would contend that a fatal blow kad been given to
the skill of this country in a flourishing branch of its
trade. In Coventry nineteen-twentieths of the inhabitants
were weavers, and When trade was slack, the masters, in-
stead of turning their• men upon the parish, used to em-
ploy them in making election ribande, well knowing that
though there was no demand for them, the time would
come when there would be an election, and they would be
wanted. This, however, was now done away with. They
had deprived these poor people of a considerable portion of
their labour, and taken away front them an asylum in dis-
tress--a sheet anchor in a storm.—(Hear, and laughter.)
must say, that he thought it extremely improper to
restrain the demonstration of public feeling, by outsvattrie
and visible signs like the wearing of ribands. Let -
House look at France. Could she, with her military
rpol
Po-
lice and gens-d'armes, restrain the Buonaparttiistrg
their
wearing their violets, or the Bourbons from wea
fleurs-de-lis ?—(Laughter.)--He won
from his countrymen would like to be debarred
s7He would ask
wear-
ing the shamroek on St. Patriek'shDowy
he would like to
had no annual festival
• a leek on St. David's
4anbyle
1-lon.Mem licenser fm•Litfnreormick:les,hear, and laughter)—how
have a law passed against ,wearing
opfaythis nature,(
day was kept; and h e did t t
it bard, that when the
t most impor ant of their rights
people came to exercise Oa
iear and .elpatugnhotewr. )ahnidn:
then, would
dwal

—the right of sending Members to Parliament--61
should not be allowed to wear badges of distinction. Le".
the House look back to the houses of York and Lancaster
—(loud laughter,)—and to other parties famous in historP
and they would find it had always been the custom to glee
publicity to opinions by outward tokens of some sort r
other. If the House removed the ribands, the peoPle
would wear colours of a darker hue in. their countenances,
and the orange in their hats would turn to bile in theif
faces. (Hear, and laughter.) The Hon. 'Member coa'
eluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal s‘'
much of an Act of the last Session of Parliament as pro'
hibited,' under severe penalties, the use of ribands at
elections.
Colonel WOOD

was inclined to support the motion'
because he once commanded a regiment in which there were
several hundred Coventrymen (laughter) ; and when 15/
parted with those men, be promised to do them a good turn
whenever he had it in his power.—(Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. SPRING RICE acknowledged that the speech of
the lion. Member for Coventry was by no means destitute
of variety.—(Latighter.)—He had, indeed, taken a wide
range—Edward the Third and Lord Bacon—free trade anti
the Game Laws—and the wisdom of our ancestors and pool
laws. But he (3lr. S. Rice) would " not march througll
Coventry with him, that was flat."—(Laughter.)—Legie'
lation on this subject was not petty nor improper, as any
measure tending to lessen the expences of elections went to
make them more free and enlarge the circle of candidates.
Nor were the sums expended by candidates on ribbons so
rely trilling as had been supposed. At the Northumber-
land election alone, the charge for ribbons was 6,000/.
and at one election which occurred since the Bill passed.
1,500/. had been saved to the candidates. The Honour-
able Member's attempt at repealing the existing Act for the
benefit of the ribbon .makers of Coventry, was as absurd
as if he (Mr. S. Rice) should bring in a Bill compelling
the inhabitants of Coventry, Lady Godiva, Peeping Ton),
and all, to wear Limerick gloves at the celeirated Covent*,
festival. He hoped the House would support him in oppos-
ing the Bill.
Lord LOWTHER believed that many of the restrictive
laws at elections added to the expense of the candidate ; but
he thought the riband law advantageous, .and should op"
pose the Bill for its repeal.
Mr. FYLER shortly replied.
After which the House divided, when the numbers were,
For the Bill, 9 I Against it 91 I Majority 82
RIGHT OF ELECTION IN COUNTIES

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