The Sun.
London, England, 1819-03-27 00:00:00

ROYAL HOUSEHOLD BILL

The Earl of letvearoee, on moving the second
reading of the Royal Household Bill, said, be
should merely shortly state the object of the Bill,
as he understood no opposition was intended to
the nriiiciple of it, and the discussion of the de-
tails would come more properly in the Commit-
tee. The saving made in the establishment of the
Royal lelousehold by
,the regulations of the pre-.
sent Bill amounted. to 50,0001 per annum, ex-
clusive of 58,0901. per annum for the establish-
ment crf the late Queen ; from the latter was to
be deducted the salaries and allowances given to
her late Mrjesty's servants, which amounted to
18.0001. per annum ; dins the whole saving ivoidd
not he lets than 90,0001. per annum. His Lord-
ship then adverted to the establishment for the
Royal Household, agreed upon at the commence-
ment ot the Regency, observing, that it was then
made with reference not only to the afflicted state
of the .King, bait also to the situation of the
Queen, and with refeienee also to the considers.
trot) tiial her Majesty would, in case of her sur-
viving the King, be entitled to 100,0001. per atm.
alti,otigh it was not deemed expedient to consider
her in any other character that) as Queen Consort.
Since that period eight years bad elapsed, and
consegnenee of her Majesty's demise, and
ot cultist much - less probability of the reco-
very of the King, it had been deemed advisable to
retina e the Establishment, but still keeping up
what was due to his dignity as otir Sovereign, as
weo as to his afflicted slate. lit this view the re-
duction had been made ou the lowest possible
scale, and, indeed, whatever difference of opinion
had at first prevailed in another place upon this
sonject, all were at length agreed, after a tho-

rmigli investigation, that no further reduction

. _
be math:, consistently with a due and proper
te,!r‘i to the afflicted situation of the Kiug, and
id) tl►use feelings of loyalty and affection wki.:

I which, he dilated net, all were actuated towards
the person of our venerated Sovereign. There
were some minor points of detail upon which he
dil[ertd with the other House, thinking that the
t eduction had been in some respec's carried too
far ; but into this part of the subject he should not
enter. There was another point also, which more
properly belonged to the Committee, bolt which
he should not now pass over, because he did not
wish to have it supposed that he was attempting
to conceal any thing ; he alluded to the grant of
I I 0,000:. per minion to his Royal Highness the
1 D..ke of Yolk as Citstos Ptrsonie, and which was
the same attioniit that hail been granted in a simi-
lar situation to the late Queen. He was aware
that objections bad been urged to this, and he
owed n to the Duke of Yolk to state, that his,
!toys! Higline.at had not sought for any such
allowance, nor was there any doubt that without
any such allowance his Royal Highness would
execute the trust reposed in him with all the fide-
lity and attentioli that the warmest affection emild
dictate. But he (Lord Liverpool) could not con-
ceal from himself, nor forget in bringing forward
a measnre of this kind, that his Royal Highness
had other highly important duties to execute,
which precluded his residence at Windsor, and
that there- must be a certain expellee incurred in
!he execution of the unit, to what amount he
could not with any precision state, but undoubt-
edly PaiFament having thought it light to give the
Queen 10,0001. per animun as Caistos Personae,
trine could he no question that under the circum-
stances of his situation, the Duke of York was
fully entiled to that allowance. This, however,
was a question for the Committee, to the princi-
ple of the Bill he could not anticipate any ohjec-
Hon. His Lordship concluded by moving the
Serpnd reading of the Bill.
'I he Earl GREY said, he did not rise to oppose
the second reading of the Bill, being satisfied
wi; h it so tar as it went upon a principle of re-
duction, which was so highly essential in the pre-
.ent distressed state of the country, and which, if
it could be cart ied still further, it would he still
more salisfacrory to him. In saying this, he meant
nothing derogatory to the Monarch; sincere and
affectionate loyalty to his Sovereign, compassion
tot his afflictions, respect for his age, induced him
to wish that Sovereign to have every comfort that
his state required, and to have every appendage of
dignity consisient with his afflicted situation; hut
he 'would grant nothing on the delusive pretence
of digol.y, which formed so melancholy a contrast
with the actual affliction of his situation. The
Noble Lot(' h.ad alluded to what had passed in an-
other place, and he (Lord Grey) might regularly '
do so, because the Votes of the other House, and
other documents, were before their Lordships.—
He found by those documents, that in the other
House it had been thought expedient to refer this j.

811 hject to a Committee; and he could not but
think, that the delicacy of the subject, and the
respect due to their Lordships, called fur a simi-
lar proceeding in that House; or at least, if that
Was not thought ingredient, they might have sent
a Message to the other !louse, requesting a copy
of the Report of their Committee, which would
have given them some information as to the details
i4ticit had been investigated. Instead of this, how-
lever, they were called upon, without information,
to vote upon the Bill ; and though he undoubtedly
rejoiced• in in the saving
that was
tnhlaatder'ecsluticitliolitet
should wish to know
could be still further consistently extended ; every
saving, however mintite,being imperiously called for
by the distressed situ,tion of the country. The
question also still remained, why the reduction
of the Windsor Establishment had not before
taken place ? for no reason had been stated by the.
Noble Earl for the reduction now, in conse-
quence of the demise of the Queen, which did
not equally apply to it during the life-time of her
Majesty, and the propriety of which reduction lie
(Lord Grey) had often urged in that House.—
With regard to the allowance of 10,0001. per ann.
to his Royal Highness the Duke of York, it was
a subject to which he adverted with very consi-
del able pain. He highly respected the Duke of
Yolk for his public services ; he highly esteemed
him for his private virtues ; but no consideration
should induce him to shrink from the discharge of
a public duty ; and that public ditty undoubtedly
compelled him to oppose the allowance. He could
nor, indeed, but painfully regret that such a
question had been dragged fOrward, tending, as
it did, so deeply to injure the- Duke of York in
the public estimation, and making so unfavour-
able an impression as it had throughout the country,
the public every where considering it as prejudi-
cial to their interests, and iasulting to their un-
derstandiogs. Nothing had been urged by the
Noble Earl that could in any way justify such a
grant ;—antl when he considered the only plea
that had been brought forward, the expence of the
otiice of Custos, he could not but view it as ob-
taining a grant of 10,0001. a-year under a false pre-
tence. The Noble Earl had endeavoured also to
justify the grant on the groomd of the same allow-
ance having been given to her late Majesty; but to
this he, would say, that in not opposing that grant
to her late Majesty he was guilty of a great over-
sight, but undoubtedly he considered it as unjus-
tifiable equally with the present proposal, and the
very argument itself skewed the danger of making
a precedent of this nature, which was thus brought
forward to justify a measure contrary to just ire,
and et hich might be adduced in the same way to
'amnion other measures of the same tendency.—
lie could not but deeply regrer that such a mea-
sure had been at all brought forward ; the Noble
Earl opposite might not be acquainted with the
effect produced by it in the country, but he (Lord
Grey) could assure him that that impression W. 15
the most unfavourable that any proposition could

have- given rise tn. Under these circinnstpmces

be certainly should not oppose the second reading
of the Hill,
approving ai he did of the principle
of reduction, and wishing it to be carried, if pos.
4ible, still farther; hut be undonbtedly,pust give
his determined opposition in the Committee to

the proposed allowance to the 1)11kt! of Yolk.
The Earl of ilaattowaY. said, whether the un-
derstandings of th'e public wete iwsttlted by the
proposed allowance, it would he for the tinier-
standings of their Lordships to consider; but
better

wrytii,l it be tor the Noble •1401:1s

th(• other side to oppose going into the Gan-
wit iee, 1.1) (i into iL
,tvitit the ;:tellisg tits-

played by the Noble Earl, with regard to the
es-
tablishment of our afflicted Sovereign. If mere
comforts were to be provided, that would be con-
fined to sufficient raiment and food, and medical
attendance ; but were they to forget that the in-
dividual whose situation was to be provided for
was our Sovereign—that we had been his subjects
fur 58 years—that we owed him every mark of
affection and loyalty—and that, though unfortu-
nately precluded from exercising the power, he
was still our Sovereign ? As a man indeed, he
might require nothing more as to personal corn•

torts than another individual, but would any at-
fectiouate parent, would any dulifisl son, in any
class of society, think that he had provided suffi-
ciently for a dear relation in so melancholy a
situation, by merely furnishing sufficient food and
raiment, and medical atteodance ; and was the
Sovereign of the country to be placed in a worse
situation than the meatiest of his subjects. If
such were the feeling indeed, it was a feeling di-
rectly adverse to Monarchical Government, in
tending as it did to degrade the Sovereign, and
that too under circumstances the more afflicting
and the most melancholy. Desperate and irre-
mediable must be the distress of the country, if it
could not afford a few thousands a-year for the
maintenance of the' dignity and state of a Mo-
narch, endeared to us by the benignity of a long
reign. Place all thb savings thus made in one
scale, and Monarchical Government in the other,
for that, under such circumstances, must be the
questio,n—to reduce the Monarch, in such a situa-
tion, to the mere enjoyment of personal comforts,
was, in tact, to degrade and destroy the Mo-
narcy. He trusted none of their Lordships would
go into the Cominittee on this Bill with any such
feelings.
The Earl of CARLTSLII observed, that the Noble
Earl had trade a most loyal speech, to which there
would be.no other objection than that it was to-
Lally unnecessary. The Noble Earl had certainly
misunderstood what had been said by his Noble
Friend (the Earl Grey), in whose speech there was
one little word, namely dignity, which rendered
the speech of the Noble Earl totally unnecessary,
because that word dignity comprehended in fact
every thing that the Noble Earl had urged. He
wished to ask the Noble Earl (Liverpool) whether
the 10,0001. a year was given to the Queen in her
character of Custos Regis ? ,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, the clause hi the
.Act of Parliament would be the best answer to
the Noble Earl, but as far as be recollected, the
10,0001.
.a year, if not given to her Majesty in
terms, as Costos Personm., was expressly given on
the ground of increased expences in consequence
of havit7g the custody of the King's person.
Thef Earl GREY said, his Noble Ft lend had al-
most rendered it unnecessary for him to say any
thing, but certainly the Noble Earl (Harrow.by)
had most entirely misunderstood what he (Earl
Grey) had said. He never hinted at confining
the provision for the Sovereign to mere personal
comforts ; on the contrary, he had distinctly stat-
ed, that tram loyalty and attachment to that So.
vereign—from compassion for his afflictions—.from
respect to his age, he wished every attention to
be paid to his-dignity that was consistent with his
afflicted situation, objecting, as he did, decidedly
to the calling for a large and expensive establish-
ment, on the delusive pretext of dignity, forming,
RS it must, so melancholy a contrast with the
actual situation of the Sovereign. To this opi-
nion he still adhered, but this opinion the Noble
Earl most certainly had greatly misunderstood, or
he would never have so misrepresented it.
The Earl of HAtutowsY said, he meant chiefly
to allude to the desire expressed by the Noble
Earl (Grey) for a still further. .reduction, without
meaning any personal imputation.
After a few words from the Earl of DARNLEY,
on the unfoonded ,attack made by the Noble Earl ,
(Ilarrowhy) on his Noble Friend—

The Bill was read a second time, and committed
for Monday.—Adjourned till Monday.
[For the Proceedings in the House of Commons see

the Last Page.]