The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-06 00:00:00

TAR UN, LONDON, :PRInA, EVENING, JUNE 6, 1845.

M. Stewart) held that to be an excellent doctrine, and could
recommend it to the perusal of all interested in the monetary
affairs of the United Kingdom.
Sir R. PEEL hoped the Hon. Gentleman would allow the
Bill to go into Committee, in which its details would be dis-
cussed. In bringing it forward, the Government had fairly
dealt with Scotland, and he regretted that the Hon. Gentleman
had endeavoured to raise a prejudice against tie Bill, and
alarm at it, by stating that it was to be the forerunner of a
single bank of issue in that country. He (Sir R. Peel) had
never been in favour of establishing a single bank of issue in
Scotland, a 3 he knew the difficulties in the way of such an es-
tablishment. The interviews which he had had with persons
interested in Scotch banking, had made him fully
aware that there would be a most vigorous opposition
to a measure intended to effect such a change in
their monetary system.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") He wished
to remove any apprehension on the part of the people of Scot-
land, by stating that the Government did not contemplate
establishing a single bank of issue ; neither did they intend to
bring forward any other measure than the one they had pro-
posed. It was clearly a case in which the whole country was
concerned, and there was a case of res integrce. As regarded
the money to be advanced to the public, he thought that there
ought to be some ground for the principles on which the bank-
ing system should be conducted in Scotland. Ho was aware
that there was a great prejudice in Scotland in favour of the
system of paper issues and security credit; but yet, even there,
there was a doubt of this system ; and in England, where it
had been tested, much doubt was not only entertained respect-
ing the principles of banking, but also as to the mode on which
it ought to be conducted. He was not aware of the feeling
which was said to be entertained in Scotland in favour of those
accommodations that the public enjoyed, and he was rather in-
clined to think that the feeling of the public was against it
than otherwise. A distrust must naturally exist in the minds
of all who had property at stake, and unless they saw that
there was perfect security for the money which they depo-
sited, they would of course be very chary of the amount which
they contributed to what the Hon. Gentleman was pleased to
consider the general benefit. There was not in his (Sir R.
Peel's) opinion anything to justify the assurance of the sound-
ness of the banks, simply because the paid-up capital of the
banks was all deposited for their trading. He indeed did not
think that any paid-up capital could give that security which
the public had a right to demand. Unless the director or the
governor of the bank had a power of converting their assets
into cash, there was no probability of the several banks being
able to meet their engagements. This was a principle well
recognised in commerce, and a feeling had accordingly been
engendered in the commercial world against it. The Man-
chester Chamber of Commerce had indeed so decidedly
expressed itself, that there was no doubt of the
course which would be pursued in all the places where
commercial transactions were of any importance. This was
high authority, and entitled to the greatest credit ; and he
thought that if a doubt had been entertained at all upon the
subject the safest plan would be to allow the claims of those
who, while they were unable to help themselves, required and
were entitled to the greatest consideration. This perhaps
could only be obtained by the same system which was pur-
sued in England, but yet he felt that there had not been
sufficient care taken to render the system even in England so
perfect as it might be. The banks in England were not bound
to a certain amount of issue except so far as the amount of
their capital might restrict them ; but he thought that in
accordance with the principles which had always regulated the
people of Scotland they should have some other and further
security. It was not sufficient that the people should have
the assurance of the solvency of their banks, but that they
should also derive from them consistently with their security
all the assurance which they derived from that quiet enjoyment
of their property to which, from the Const.tution, they were
entitled. He therefore thought that the system which had
been proposed was not only wise in itself, but judicious from
the way in which it provided for the public benefit ; and he
trusted, in consideration of these reasons, that the Hon. Gen-
tleman would withdraw his opposition.
Mr. HUME said that, in the restriction of the issues for
Scotland he differed from the Right Hon. Baronet, toto emlo.
That Scotland had flourished under the present system no one
could pretend to doubt, and he thought the people of Scotland
would be quite satisfied if they were left alone. They had been
able to provide far the general benefit hitherto, and the feeling
was decidedly, throughout the country, in favour of the system
on which they felt that their prosperity had been grounded. if
they were to adopt this system and continue it, they would save
the country at least from '200,000/. to 300,0001. a year, and at
the same time satisfy the feelings of the people of Scotland from
one end to the other.
Sir W. CLAY said that the system of Scotch currency could
not exist if Scotland were an independent nation. But his eb-
jection to the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet was, that it
attempted too much, for the impression in Scotland now was
such, that it would be exceedingly dangerous to interfere with
the small note circulation. —( Hear, hear.)
Mr. HAWES said that they must recollect that when the
Bill was read the former time it was agreed to waive all discus-
sion until the next reading He was disposed to ask now what
were the grounds on which they intended to introduce this
measure to Scotland? Had the success of the English Bill been
such that they wished to extend its advantages to Scotland
also ?—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, in introducing
the Bill, said they had every reason to be satisfied with the
policy and justness of that measure. He (Mr. Hawes) did not
see that the Bill of last year had proved that the expectations
of the Right Hon. Baronet had been well founded. He would
ask again, if the policy of last year was such that the Right
Hon. Baronet was justified in extending it to Scotland ? And
here he could not help saying that the Scottish bankers had
evinced a right and a proper spirit, and he only wished
that the English bankers had evinced a like spirit
when the measure relating to English banking was first intro-
duced by the Right Hon. Baronet. It had been said by the
Right Hon. Baronet that the banks had the power of issuing
an almost unlimited number of notes. But what had been the
ease last year ? And here he would remind the Right Hon.
Baronet that in that year there had been no lack of railway and
other speculations. The Bank of England could have issued
30,000,0001., and yet there were notes to the amount of
6,000,000/. in the Bank lying unissued. Now, surely, if the
Bank could have forced their notes into circulation, there
never was a better opportunity—never a greater inducement,
than to have done so at that time. And why did they not ?
Because they were liable at any time to be called on to give
bullion for their paper, and that was found, and would be ever
found, a sufficient check upon any undue circulation.—( Hear. )
He was surprised to hear the Hon. Member for the Tower
Hamlets, who was connected with a system of banking in this
country that was little removed from, if not equally as bad as
the American system, complain of the Scotch plan. But upon
what grounds did the Hon. Gentleman complain ? The re-
turns showed nothing to justify such an opinion, or to justify
either reproach or complaint. For a long course of velars he
found that the banking system had been in Scotland highly sa-
tisfactory to the people, and the circulation had been ample,
steady, and ~uniform. This clearly proved that the Scotch
banking system had been conducted with great ability, great
honesty, and great success.—( Hear, hear.) He was therefore
surprised to hear any one review the system in a tone or manner
otherwise than favourably. The fluctuation of the Bank of
England was infinitely greater than that of Scotland.
In the years 1839 and 1840, when distress was very pre-
valent, the circulation of the Bank of England fluctuated
5,000,0001., while the fluctuations of the Bank of Scotland
did not amount to mere than 2,000,000/. or in fact not much
less than the average issue.—( Hear, hear.) Then, with
regard to the failures in English and Scotch banks, he found
that the number greatly preponderated on the side of England;
and where an English bank only paid ss. in the pound, he
found that the Scotch banks paid from 9s. 3d. to 15s.
He was therefore justified in inferring from this
that the Scotch banking system was a good one. In Ireland
they were going to limit the number of banks because an alarm
prevailed in that country which was not founded in fact, and,
indeed, for which there was no cause whatever.—( Hear. )
How could they settle at the present moment what number of
banks will be necessary for the future- wants of Ireland? The
population of that country was gradually increasing, and it
was to be hoped its wealth and industry proportionably in-
creased with it. Why, then, should they be called upon is
restrict banks in Ireland, while there was every prospect that,
i n a few more years, the exigehcies of the country
would render an augmentation of the number of
banks absolutely necessary ? He stood upon these
facts in opposing the measure so far as it related to Ireland;
and he told the House, if they passed this Bill, they would be
establishing one of the oldest and worst systems of banking
monopoly. Upon these general grounds he stood opposed to
the Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet. In England they had a
paltry and imperfect system, and they were doing their best to
introduce their system into Scotland and Ireland, instead of
copying Scotland.
Mr. BAILLIE said Scotland did not wish to enjoy any privi-
lege whatever at the expense of England, but the question
before them rested upon totally different grounds. What was
the difference in the history of the banking system of the two
countries? The people of England found, from fatal expe-
rience in 1825, that their system of banking was unsound
and unsafe, and injurious, not only to this country, but to the
sister kingdom. In 1825, the numerous failures that took
place in every part of the country clearly proved to the world,
that the country bankers of England managed their issues in a
most reckless manner, spreading periodical ruin and disaster
from one end of the country to the other. Those accumulating
evils clearly proved that some great alteration in the banking
system was necessary, and in 1826 the Government of
the day, acceding to the general wish of the
people, abolished the circulation of one pound notes
in England. That was a clear statement of the facts so far as
they related to England. Now, what was the case respecting
Scotland ? Why a system was then established, which was
considered to be one of the very best in the kingdom. It had
passed through all the storms and changes of the last century—
through panics and internal rebellion and foreign war. Yes,
it had passed through all these changes without ever having
raised the least suspicion or doubt in the public mind of Scot-
land, and always met its demands, and maintained its
superiority over all other systems. Although he objected to
many of the minor details of the Bill he would give it his sup-
port. He hoped that some modification would be made in the
Committee, but upon the wholeihe.believed that the Bill would
be both acceptable and beneficial to the Scottish people.
Mr. C. WOOD had not intended to ruake any observations
on the Bill before it went into Committee ; but, as the Hon.
Member for Lambeth had stated some objections to the prin-
ciple of the • measure, which required an answer, he would
therefore address himself to them now. His Hon. Friend had
said that the experience of the past year was not enough to
enable them to judge of the entire success of the Bill of last
session. He agreed with him to some extents they could not
yet form a complete opinion of the effect of the measure one
way or the other. During the past year the monetary state of
the country had been unprecedented, and must return to its
ordinary state before the Bill could be fairly tried. It was
alleged last year, by the opponents of the Bill, that it would
check the business of the country, check enterprise, and en-
tail ruin on some, and pressure at least upon all. What
did they hear now? The opponents of the Bill told them
that speculation had been rife, that the measure had
placed no impediment in the way of it—in short,
that not one of the evils they had predicted bad fol-
lowed the operation of the Bill. His Honourable Friend
avowed himself one of the old school of political econo-
mists, and of Adam Smith, from whom, however, he differed ;
the principle laid down by these political economists was, that
the legal convertibility of a bank note was sufficient to main-
tain its value. He was surprised, after the experience they
had had of this country, and still more of America, that any
one should now maintain this doctrine. In America every
security that the law could furnish was taken—they had limited
liability and paid-up capital—every legal security was taken to
insure the convertibility of the paper. Yet all at once the
hanks in America stopped payment one after another. Legal
convertibility was not so good a security as practical converti-
bility. As to the supposed intention of the Right Hon. &toilet
o
ofofhis creating one general bank of issue, he had expressly, gene out
od way to disclaim it, and this Bill itself, unless he
it,misun-
derstalcopoinytatihneedprienaveirpyitehiinngstcootslhanowd that it was not in-
tended to
Hight Hon. Baronet had done well to consu.lt elixeistti
in framing • hngossignbtetrers
thet
his measure so as to insure their
co-operation. His
English Bill had fully answered its purpose of making the fluc-
tuations of paper correspond with those of the metallic
CUT-
rency. He would not touch on the question of the so
of Scotch banks. He bore every testimony to the etas
nary success with which the system had been carried out;
but he thought the Scotch attributed that success to one or
two things only—to their small notes and cash credits, when
it should rather be attributed to the sound management of
their banling in general. He thought this Bill took every
security against abuse.
The chief Scottish hankers gave evi-
dence to the effect that the Scottish circulation was diminish-
ing. In 1844 the circulation was , , ,
2 500 0001. or 90,0001,

below the minimum. But under this Bill they would have
the power of extending their circulation to the extent of
500,0001. upon 3,000,0001. This was a much greater pro-
portion of increase than was to be allowed to the English
bankers, which was 3,000,0001. to 50,000,0001. This appeared
to him to be an unfair proportion, end be did not see why the
Scotia) bankers should be relieved from the necessity of
holding gold, when that necessity was imposed on the English
bankers. A better arrangement of the Scotch banking sys-
tem would do away with the great objection to the 11. note
system. The better order of Scotch bankers hold about one-
fifth of their circulation in coin, and it would be no hardship to
others to impose the same necessity on them. The measure
would operate very unfairly in favour of the Scotch bankers,
as compared with the English system. The Scotch bankers
were allowed to have one-fifth more circulation in notes than
they had coin in their coffers, while the English bankers were
compelled to pay all above their allowed circulation in notes of
the Bank of England, whch, of course, they must borrow from
the Bank.
The Hon. Mr. BOUVERIE did not wish to say much upon
this subject, but his opinion was that he did not think the
present state of banking in Scotland warranted the interference
of the Legislature at all. The losses, and failures, and bank-
ruptcies that had attended the interference hitherto of the Le-
giclaturo with the banking system in England had been un-
known in Scotland ; but now the Legislature, having taken up
the question, and were about to make laws regulating the
Scotch banking system, he had no doubt but that a very short
time only would elapse before the same evils would be the con-
sequence of this interference. They had all seen that evils of
the same nature had resulted in America from legislative inter-
ference, though not to the same extent as in England. On
these grounds he contended that the present system of banking
in Scotland should not be interfered with, at least by such le-
gislative interference as that of which he had been speaking,
for it certainly would not be attended with beneficial results. ,
Mr. MUNTZ did not intend'to say much upon the subject.
He would merely observe that the only thing he had to com-
plain of was, that the Right Hon. Baronet in preferring this
measure had not gone far enough. He could not see why if
one-pound notes were good for Ireland and Scotland, they
should not also be good for England ; and, on the other hand,
if they were bad for England, why should their circulation be
permitted in Scotland?
Mr. BARING thought that last year's Bill decided the
principle upon which they should proceed. They limited the
banks of issue Scotland and in Ireland last year, and the
Government would not have granted the monopolies which
they had conferred, without reserving to themselves the right
of regulating the one-pound note system afterwards. He pro-
fessed himself a disciple of the old school, and would read to
them an extract from Adam Smith, in which it would be found
that his opinion was not very favourable to the advocates of the
small-note issues. The Hon. Gentleman then read the ex-
tract, and went on to say that anybody who looked to the com-
mercial prosperity of this country, which had increased so
much for the last fifty years, and asserted that that
prosperity was traceable to the banking system which existed
here, he would be laughed at. Now, he held that the same
system of reasoning applied to Scotland. It was not, he con •
sidered, a fair inference that the commercial prosperity of
Scotland entirely proceeded from the banking system, which
was established there. It was rather attributable, he con-
sidered, to the prudence and commercial habits of the people.
There never, too, was a greater mistake than to draw in-
ferences from the fluctuations in bullion. For in the year
1837, a time of great commercial depression, when the bul-
lion in the Bank of England was reduced to five or six mil-
lions, was the diminution in the circulation of the Bank of
Scotland proportionally reduced ? Quite the contrary. So
far from being reduced, he found there was an actual increase
of 165,0001. And again in August, 1439, while the bullion
was decreased 2,440,0001. in the Bank of England, there was
an increase (but a small one, however) in the circulation of the
Bank of Scotland. He was very much afraid that they did not
follow out in practice the principles which they had laid down.
He would not, however, detain the House by repeating the ar-
guments of the Hon. Member for Halifax, and under all the
circumstances he would give the Bill his support.
Mr. ROSS thought he should bast consult the feelings of the
House in adopting the example set him by the lion. Member
for Halifax, in not mixing up the Irish and the English part
of the question. He begged, however, to assure the House,
that he would bring the whole system of Irish banking before
them on a future occasion. .

..—...
Mr. OSWALD thought that the people of Scotland would
be quite satisfied to be left alone altogether.—(A laugh.) He
had very carefully examined the nature and bearings of the
measure, and they had no great fault to find with it in the
main. Any objection he had to make would be brought for-
ward when the question went into Committee.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.
On the first clause being read,

Mr. BANNERMAN-moved as an amendment that the
words "said period of one year preceding the first day of May
1845," be omitted, and to substitute the following words—
" period of four weeks immediately preceding the 7th day of
December 1844."

Sir ROBERT PEEL said, that it was totally out of his
power to agree to the proposition. He believed that the
arrangement that had been proposed would lead to conciliation.
—( Hear, hear.) He believed that without disparaging the
issue of the banks of Scotland, the bank would be enabled to
provide for it without any increase of the amount of bullion.
Mr. HUAIE thought not one point of benefit had been pre •
sented by any Hon. Member that could be derived from the
measure. He thought the present measure was a breach of
faith, and they were about to restrict circulation. The very
first words of the preamble of the Bill were at variance with
the provisions which the Right Hon. Baronet had obtained
leave to introduce, and as the whole people of Scotland were
unanimously against the measure, he concurred with his Hon.
Friend the Member for Kilmarnock, in conjuring the :Go-
vernment to consult the interests of that country, although,
perhaps, by a majority, wholly ignorant of the measure and its
effects, it might be carried in opposition to their wishes.
Sir R. PEEL declared that a more unfounded charge had
never been made than that of accusing him of having broken a
pledge solemnly given to the House, of having brought forward
a Bill at variance with that which he had obtained leave to
introduce.—( Hear, hear.) He would show that, like many
other of the Hon. Member's assertions, this charge was falla-
cious and unfounded.—( A laugh.) The preamble of the Bill,
as originally propounded, recited the identical provisions of the
present measure. He proposed to ascertain the averages by
the issue of the month. The variations in banking in
Scotland at certain periods of the year were unquestionable and
remarkable. In the months of May and October, the circulation
was materially afected, and if the average should be taken during
those equivocal periods, the deductions would be fallacious, and,
if acted upon, dangerous. The periods, he contended, should
be thirteen lunar months from the date of the passing of the
Bill. The average issue of the Scotch banks was
3,041,3991., while 3,061,0001. was the average of the last,
and anticipated average of the next year. Such had been the
computations as originally propounded, and he would therefore
ask the House how, when the same were now repeated, he
could be charged with breaking his pledge or introducing a Bill
at variance with his previous eniniciations ?—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. HUME would not retort the charge of inconsistency or
error, although it was singular how often the Right Non.
Baronet had followed his (Mr. Hume's) advice, after pre-
viously and obstinately opposing it; and how often he had
changed his course and adopted the principles of those he charged
with ignorance and fallacy.—(Loud laughter.) He could
prove, from the preamble of the Bill, that restrictions were
anticipated by it—restrictions wholly at variance with the
pledge previously given.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended
that such was not the provision of the Bill. The bankers in
Scotland would not be entitled to issue more than 3,061,0001.,
unless they had a reserve of gold warranting an increase. Such
a reserve they frequently had, and the operations of the Bill
merely enjoined a registration of the excess.
Mr. DENISON contended, from a statement of a Com-
mittee of Bankers, that so far from an increase of 30,0001., it
would exceed 100,0004 , making the average circulation of
Scotland 4,000,0001. instead of 3,000,0001.
Mr. OSWALD thought the sum of 3,063,0001., as provided
by the Bill, too limited for the present wants of the country.
The measure would affect the banks in the agricultural dis-
tricts, but the great banks in Edinburgh and Glasgow would
not be influenced by it. The real s( fferers would be the
country banks in the rural districts, if the Right Hon, Baronet
did not concede something to the feelings of the people of
Scotland, by a relaxation of the restriction he proposed.
Mr. ROCHE did not see that the present measure was
called for, as to the former banking system in Scotland that
country was indebted for all the good she had achieved, up to
that moment, in trade, commerce, and general improvement.
Sir G. CLERK defended the restriction of the Bill relative
to the issues, and if the principle of a certain amount of gold in
pi ()portion to issues was to be maintained, he could not see
how the amount of specie could be reduced.
Mr. FOX MAULE corroborated the statement of Mr.
Oswald, as to the influence of the Bill on the agricultural
banks, and cited several banks in Scotland that would be inju-
riously affected by it. They should pause ere they changed a
system which had produced such great advantages during the
last 120 years.
Mr. P. M. STEWART wished that the principle of ave-
rage circulation was extended to Scotland, for he felt confident
that it would answer quite as well there as in England. The
returns made were the minimum returns of the circulation of
Scotland, and the Scotch banks ought to be allowed to amend
those returns ; and the fair adjustment of this point would be
to allow the Scotch banks to amend their returns, and ob-
tain the fair average, which would be four millions sterling.
It was a motion of great moment, and the practical effect of
the measure would be, in many instances, the limiting the
metropolitan banks to a very low circulation. They must call
in the small banks, which would seriously injure the popula-
tion of the rural district. Was it worth while that they
should risk such an important interest by refusing that which
was only a fair working out of the principle of the Bill ?
An How. Moment, whose name we could not learn, ob-
served, that in considering these twelve months, from which
the average was taken in eight cases out of ten, a maximum
average had been given to the circulation of England. And
therefore he would say that, whether from accident, or any
other cause, the English banks, instead of being placed in
a worse situation than the Scotch, were placed in a much bet-
ter position. He hoped the right Hon. Baronet would allow
the Scotch Banks to amend their returns

Sir ft. PEEL said the English bankers had asked to have
that period given them which would furnish a maximum re-
turn, but it was refused to them, and he hoped the House would
not now decide upon subjecting the people of England to dis-
advantages to which the people of Scotland were not subject.
The truth was the measure was more favourable to Scotland
than the English measure was to England.—(Hear, hear.)
There was this difference between them, that whatever amount
of gold the bankers held in this country, they were not
allowed to increase the Issue. He hoped that the
Irish Members would not, on this occasion, join with
the Scotch—(Loud laughter)—but consider the case of
Scotland as separate from England. The Scotch bankers
were not entitled to greater advantages than the bankers of
this country. He relied upon the general sense of the House
for maintaining a proposal which was net unjust, but
which, if erroneous or unjust, was certainly unjust in favour
of Scotland. . . . . . .

Sir R. FERGUSON said, that during the last year there
had been increased prosperity in Ireland, and he would im-
plore the House not to allow such a Bill to pass as would put
restrictions on their currency.
Mr. MUNTZ agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman at
the head of the Government that the present measure was
decidedly favourable for the currency of Scotland, but he would
have wished It to have been extended on a more liberal plan.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment 59
Against it
Majority against the amendment —2s
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 2 being proposed, a desultory discussion took place,
in which the Honourable Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Redington, and
Mr. Charles Wood, took part.
The clause having been put, . .

Mr. DENNISTOUN said that it was understood by
bankers generally, that the Government would not press this
clause, and he should therefore beg leave to move a verbal
amendment,

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—

. ..
For the amendment 3l
Against it
Majority against it
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses 3,4, 5,6, and 7, were passed without any dis-
cussion.

On clause 8 being put by the Chairman,
Mr. F. MAULE said Ile bad au amendment to move upon

this clause, and he should, therefore, move that the Chairman
do report progress.
The House having resumed, the CHAIRMAN reported ac-
cordingly, and obtained leave to sit again on Monday next.
The other orders of the 'day having been disposed of, the
House adjoarned at One o'Clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, June 5.

Their Lordships mot at Five o'clock.'
Sem-al Noble Lords and Right Rev. Prelates presented
petitions against the Maynooth grant.
RAILWAY BILLS.

A number of Railway Bills were brought up from the
House o f Commons.

On the motion of Earl FORTESCUE, the Small Debts Bill
WAS read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Mon-
day next.
The Marquis of NORMANBY presented a petition from
the mayor and corporation of Newcastle-upon-Tyne praying
the House to adopt some sanatory regulations for large towns.
THE NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.

Lord BROUGHAM called attention to the crowded state
of the House on the preceding evening, and complained of their
Lordships being obliged to meet in a place by no means
sufficiently largo to contain the whole of their number. Ho
wished to ask the Noble Marquis who took an interest in this
matter whether ho intended to renew his motion on the subject
of the new Houses of Parliament

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought it highly unjust
and improper that their Lordships should be compelled to
continue longer in the present building. It was absolutely
necessary that something should be done to urge on the com-
pletion of the new House, and this was not merely a matter of
publio convenience, but a matter appertaining really to the
health of their Lordships.—(Hear, hear.) They ought, cer-
tainly, to have been in the new House before this time, and
they most undoubtedly would have been, had proper attention
been paid to the subject. They would long ago have been in
the other House, had it not been that some hesitation had been
felt about the best decorations and ornaments to be used in
the House, which were properly introduced as subsidiary to the
dignity of the place in which they assembled, but which ought
to be entirely a matter of secondary consideration. In answer
to the Noble and Learned Lord, he begged to state that it was
his intention, whenever a favourable opportunity presented
itself, to move the re-appointment of the Committee up stairs.
—( Hear. )
The Marquis of NORMANBY wished to say a word or two
on this subject. It was impossible to endure the sufferings
to which they had been subjected for the last three nights, as
well from the vitiated air produced by the imperfect way in
which the House was ventilated, as from the sudden drafts en
that side of the House. He had himself caught a cold a short
time ago, which confined him to the house for nearly a week,
and he could attribute it to no other cause than the drafts
of that House. He hoped, therefore, that some means would
be resorted to for the purpose of obtaining an assurance that
these evils would be remedied before the next session of Par-
liament. _ _

Lord CAMPBELL thought that it was not creditable that
these complaints, which had been reiterated so often, should be
still unattended to.

Lord BROUGHAM said it appeared to him that Mr. Barry
did all but set that House at defiance. Mr. Barry conceived
he had high protection in that House, but let him take care
that he would not find himself mistaken.

The LORD CHANCELLOR presented petitions against the
imprisonment for small debts.
Lord BROUGHAM said the wishes of the petitioners
amounted, to nothing more or less than this, that they
should contract small debts, but never be asked to
pay them, or forfeit their goods for them, or be put in gaol
for them. —(Laughter. ) He now begged to present a petition
from a Noble Lord a Member of that House, in which the
petitioner complained that a branch of the Nottingham railroad
in the midland counties, proposed to pass through a part
of his estate, would not only destroy his game preserves,
but also render it impossible that any one could live comfortably
in his house, on which he had recently expended 10,000/. He
therefore appealed to their Lordships, having in vain
sought justice elsewhere. He ( Lord Brougham) begged to
move that the petition be referred to the Committee.
MA YNOOTH GRANT.

The Earl of WINCHIT.,SEA presented twenty-five peti-
tions against the grant to Maynooth, from the following
amongst other places :—Kent. Devonshire, Surrey, Dublin,
Sussex, Buckinghamshire, Winchester, Stafford, York, Bles-
sington, Lincoln, Leicester, Devon, and Derby. While he
was now on his legs he would beg to call attention to a matter
somewhat personal to himself. He had heard it said that he
had been reported to have said in that House that he had ac-
cused an Hon. Member of the other House of Parliament of
having acted dishonestly or insidiously. (The Noble Lord
was understood to allude to Mr. Gladstone) He (Lord Win-
chilsea) had not seen a report of his speech, but he scarcely
thought it possible ho could have used such words—(Cries of
" No, no")—for, he believed, there lived not a more honour-
able or high-minded man than that Hon. Member.—( Hear. )
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY gave notice that he
would ask a question on Monday next of the First Lord of the
Admiraly, relative to the harbour of Donoghadee.
The Marquis of BRE ADALBANE said he regretted to
have heard the Noble Lord who closed the debate on the
Maynooth Bill, say that the petitions against that measure
should not be deemed indicative of the feeling of the country,
or looked upon as genuine.
Lord STANLEY said his Noble Friend must be under
some misapprehension as to what he had said. What he did
say was, that many of those petitions had emanated from vari-
ous causes, and different expedients had been resorted to to get
them up; but he did not say that he had not the highest re-
spect for the petitioners.—( Hear.)
TRIAL BY JURY IN IRELAND.

Lord CAMPBELL said he had a question to ask his Noble
Friend the Lord Chancellor in reference to the present state of
trial by jury in Ireland. At present the state of the law in
that respect was this, that the process of challenge to the array
had been stopped, and no measure as a remedy had as yet been
proposed. Now, he (Lord Campbell) would like to know if
any such measure would be proposed before the close of the
session, which was now waning fast.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said ha had more than once
stated that the defect, of which his Noble and Learned Friend
complained, should be rectified. In fact, he had a Bill pre-
pared, by which he proposed to supply the requisite remedy,
and with the assistance of his Noble and Learned Friend he
hoped to be able to introduce that Bill early in the next week.
ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS CONSOLIDATION

Ithuriel, 4 yrs—Mr. Ford's Fuzbos, 3 yrs;,—Mr. Salvin's
Alice Hawthorn, aged—Mr. Worley's Example, 4 yrs
—Sir R. Bulkeley's Cinizelli, 3 yrs—Sir G. Heathcote's
Khondooz, 5 yrs—Mr. Irwin's Foigh-a-ballagh, 4 yrs—
Mr. A. W. Hill's The Ironmaster, 3 yrs—Sweetmeat,
3 yrs, and The Libel, 3 yrs—Lord Albemarle's Delapre.
4 yrs—Mr. Payne nd f b y Glaucus out of March First,
3 yrs—Lord Verulam's A-la-mode, 4 yrs—Mr. 0. Parry's
Zanoni.

The Welcome Stakes of 20 sovs. each, with a bonus, by
independent subscriptions of 5 sovs. each ; for colts,
Bst 71b, and fillies, Bst 21b, then three yrs old. Swin-
ley Course.
Mr. Greville's Alarm—Lord Chesterfield's Pam—Mr.
Payne's Sir Francis—Lord Exeter's Adrianople—Lord
Verulam's b c by Liverpool, out of Corumba—Lord
March nd Pic Nic—Sir W. W. Wynn's Poor Boy, and
br f by Muley Moloch, out of Dryad—Mr. Jaques's
Moulton—Mr. Ford's Chemise—Mr. Ongley's Mystery
and Symmetry—Mr. Osbaldaston's Euston—Lord Wor-
cester nd Captain Phcebus—Mr. Gully's Old England—
Mr. Booth's New Year's Day—Lord Jersey nd Jezail—
Duke of Richmond's Refraction—Colonel Peel's c by
Slane out of Cobweb—Sir C. W. Codrington nd Easton
—Mr. Bastard's Merryman—Mr. Gurney's The Land-
lord—Mr. Watson's Rubicon —Mr. Worley's John
Davis—Lord Dorchester's Hump—Mr. Forth's Remorse
—Mr. Copeland nd Arthur—Lord Spencer's The Wry-
neck—Mr. Lintott's Cabin Boy—Lord Lonsdale's c by
Jerry, out of Turquoise—Lord G. Bentinck's Miss Elis
—Mr. Gully's Maid of Orleans and Weatherbit—Duke
of Rutland's b c by Glaucus, out of Minikm—Mr. W.
S. Stanley's Keppel (late A. O.)—Sir S. Spry's f by Sir
Hercules, out of Taglioni—Lord Howth nd Wolf Dog.
The Ascot Derby Stakes of 5 sovs. each, h ft, for three
yrs old colts, Bst 71b ; and fillies, Bst 31b. Swinley
Course.

Pam, Triumvir, Golden Fleece, Wood Pigeon, Pil-
grimage, f by Samarcand, out of La File Malgardee,
b c by Glaucus, out of Minikin, Ides, Maynooth.
The Ascot Stakes of 25 sovs. each, 15 ft, and 5 only if

declared.

Two miles and a half.

First Class—Minotaur, 5 yrs, Bst 71b—Lothario, 5 yrs,
Bst 81b—Ionian, 4 yrs, Bst—Perkin Warbeck, 4 yrs-
-Bst—lnheritress, 5 yrs, 7st—Delapre, 4 yrs, 7st 71b—
Morpeth, 4 yrs, 7st 61b—Welbeck, 4 yrs, 7st 21b—
Yardley, 5 yrs, 7st—Boarding-school Miss, 4 yrs, 7st—
Wee Pet, 5 yrs, Est 121b—Turquoise colt, 4 yrs, Est 111 b
—Yates, 4 yrs, fist 71b—Brush, 4 yrs, Est 71b—Best
Bower, 4 yrs, 6st—Busk gelding, 4 yrs, fist—Heather
Bell, 3 yrs, sst 91b—Desperation, 3 yrs, sst 61b—Queen
Pomare, 3 yrs, sst 51b—New Year's-day, 3 yrs, 4st 91b
—Zahra, 3 yrs, 4st 61b.
Second class—Queen Mab, :6 yrs, Bst 71b-1-am-not-
Aware, aged, Bst—Poor Soldier, 5 yrs, 7st 121b—Qui
Tam, 4 yrs, 7st 121b—Example, 4 yrs. 7st 111b—Light-
fling, 4 yrs, 7st 101b—Beatrice, 6 yrs, 7st 71b—Vol au
' Vent, 4 yrs, 7st 71b—Moustache, 4 yrs, 7st 51b— Sub-
duer, 5 yrs, 7st 21b—Pergularia, 4 yrs, 7st Ilb—Satyr,
4 yre, 6st 1 Ilb—Laird o'Cockpen, 3 yrs, 6st 91b—Sea-
port, 4 yrs, 6st 71b—Annandale, 3 yra, Est 51b—Lydia
Languish, 4 yrs, Gst 31b—Flight colt, 3 yrs, sst 11 lb—
Stamp, 3 yrs, sst 1 lib—Blunderbuss, 3 yrs, sst 91b—
Lyons, 3 yrs, sst 31b—Scarmentado, 3 yrs, 4st 121 b.
The rest declared forfeit.

Sweepstakes of 200 sous. each, li ft; for colts, Bst 71b, and
fillies, fist 41b. Swinley Course.
Lord Orford's c by the Grand Alice, out of Miss Julia
(allowed 31b)—Colonel Peel's c by Slane, out of Cobweb
(31b)—Duke of Bedford's Julian (31b)—and Lord
Exeter's Tunick (31b).
Match ; T.Y.C.; 200, h ft; Bst 71b each—Lord Ches-
terfield's Subscription agst Mr. Payne's Collingwood.