The Sun.
London, England, 1828-02-05 00:00:00

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

Lord PALMERSTON moved that the whole
House do go into a Committee of Supply.
On the question being put,

Mr. LIDDELL rose and addressed the House.
As this, he said, is a question of supply, I shall take
this opportunity, the earliest that has presented it-
self to me, to express in a few words my view of
the changes that have taken place in the Govern-
ment, and to state also what support the present
Administration may expect from me.—(Hear, hear.)
—lf any authority Ave)* wanting to justify the course
I am taking, it would be found in the political events
that have taken place within the last twelve months,
in which we have had four Prime Ministers, and
three important changes in the Councils of the
country. Twelve months have not yet gone over
our heads since the great struggle between the late
Mr. Canning and the powerful party which was op-
posed to him. He had many admirers and sup-
porters ; I, myself, was one of those who stood by
Mr. Canning in his day of trial ; and I may add,
that he had not a more ardent admirer or sincere
supporter than the humble individual who DOW
addresses this House. It is true that Mr. Can-
ning is no more, but the memory of . his prin-
ciples yet survives ; and if the country does not
profit by his talents, it may by his example—that
brilliant example, surpassing merit, be display-
ed in the splendid career in which he bore down
every obstacle to his success. The more I have
contemplated that career in reflection and retirement,
the more reason I have found to admire it than even
when I witnessed it in this House, and heard its
fame resounding through the country. I lament to
state that he was the main strength and stay of the
Administiation he had formed. As long as he re-
mained it had my support, from my regard to the
principles on which it was formed, and the confi-
dence I had in the individual. But I am sorry to
say that, towards the close of that Administration,
after his death, it certainly did not gain much in the
esteem or confidence of the country. Its dissolu-
tion, which earns-upon it untouched by hostile hands,
was as much a relief to its friends as it could
be a measure of satisfaction to its opponents.
, The Noble Duke at, the, head of ' the: Treasury
was then called. on by his Majesty: to take the
seals of office, and I may say, that of that illus-
trious individual no man can have a higher opi-
nion or greater esteem than myself. I regard him
as the Themistoeles of England; the.siviour of the
country in the most arduous and perilous moment of
its existence, by his skill and valour.—(Hear, hear.)
—ln spite of these . feelings I must condemn the
change the Duke of Wellington has made .from his
late post of Commander-in-Chief to his present sta-
tion as First Lord of the Treasury. His post was
so well cast before—his name was so happily asso-
ciated with the army of the country by recollections
so gratifying, that it is impossible not to feel how cor-
rect the.public opinion is, that he could not be better
anywhere than where he was already placed.— (Hear,
bear.)—lt is a question, indeed, whether the Duke
of Wellington himself had not some such opinion ;
for. it.has been reported, and never, I believu con-
tradicted, that Mr. Canning last year wrote a
letter to the Noble Duke, explaining the pecu-
liarity of" his situation, and pointing out to him
how unwise it Would' be for him to attempt any
change init. The Duke of Wellington, it is under-
stood, acknowledged the justice of Mr. Canning's
views, and probably was actuated by that conviction
when be made the speech of which so much has
been said, in the House of Lords.—(Hear, hear.)—
He then confessed, that the task of the Premiership
was far too much for his habits and wishes. But the
force of circumstances, and his desire to serve his
country, • have, during the present year, perhaps,
compelled him to act differently from what he de-
'dared it his intention to do last year. I must ac-
knowledge that he is a great and wonderful man.
On his Atlantean shoulders he seems capable of bear-
ing a world of. ordinary cares. After raising to the
highest pitch the credit of the British arms, it is
-reserved for him, probably, to prove the most extra-
ordinary individual of - the times in which he has
lived.—(Hear, hear.) There is another Member of
the Administration of whom I must say a few
words—l allude to the Right Hon. - Gentleman, the
Secretary of State for the Home Department; and
I allude to him, in order that I may express my con-
viction that his Molar the people of this coun-
try.—(Hear.) On one great and important question
t,..„. t._ , .. , . .
I have the misfortune to entertain sentiments very
different from those of that Right Hon. Gentleman;
but I am well aware, that when I say this, that the
very opinions he has avowed, and the conduct he
has pursued on this question, have caused him to be
looked on by those who pre-eminently deem them-
selves loyal and constitutional, as one of the firmest
pillars of the-State ; though I must say that, in my
opinion, if he had founded his claims to the con-
fidence of the country on this part of his public
conduct alone, he would have 'gained but a small
share of it. To his friends I would say, "Remove
to some other place this pillar, whiCh, precious as it.
May be in its materialS, and polished in its construc-
tion, acts in its present position as an obstacle-to ex-
clude thousands and: millions' of our countrymen,
who have for yearsbeeriwaiting at the threshold of
the Constitution,imploringin vain
.to be admitted to
the enjoyment of its blessings."--(Cheers.) I ob-
served that the Noble Lord (Palmerston) made no
answer the other night to the questions put to
him on the subject. of free trade.-- 1.- trust
~. ,
that the principles which
are
..sodesignated will
undergo a judicious, modification; and I, am
„free . te
confess that, as to thirpoint, the present Government
has my entire confidence.' Witlerespect to the'ad-
ininistration of the affairs of Ireland, sure I am that
sc'plonlyeetdh.i:lglfin
any
ns
yt be done for that distracted country;
either concessions must be. granted or coercion em-
injudicious measure as that
resortedwhich
I htaov,e,
namely,mentioneds
tich
as one alternative should be
further coercion, it will meet
with, my unqualified opposition. What are We to
believe, if not the language uniformly uttered by all
the representatives: of the, Irish counties.? .What

are we to believe if not what they tell us,--that we:
must make our choice between peace and war, or-
der and rebellion, tranquillity and convulsion:—
(Hear.)—Under such circumstances, I cannot sup-
pose that any Government would be so frantic and
so culpable as to employ any but such means of con-
ciliation and concession, as will insure the safety and
welfare of all. On this head, then, I have no doubt
that the present Government will feel itself bound
to act with forbearance and moderation. Having
stated thus at greater length than I had intended my
view of the state of what is passing before us,
I shall sit down, thanking the House for the atten-
tion with which it has listened to me.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee
of Supply.
LORD PALMERSTON moved in a Commit-
tee of Supply, that the usual supply should be
granted to his Majesty. _

Mr. KUME thought it highly expedient that the
whole amount of the several estimates which the
Ministers intended to ask for the public service,
should be laid before the House. He trusted that a
complete view of alt the expenses of the country
►would be stated, before one shilling be granted.
Lord PALMERSTON, in reply, observed that
the Hon. Member. it►ust know that there was great
difficulty in obtaining some of the .Estimates, but he
begged to assure the House 'that they would be
brought forward as speedily as the nature of circum-
stances would permit.
Mr. HUME thought that the Estimates of the
Army and Navy admitted of no delay.
Mr. MABERLEY thought that the Noble
Lord must be aware of the fact that the Miscella-
neous Estimates had risen of late years to an enor-
mous amount, and he as reed • with his Hon. Friend
Mr. H. that the whole amount should be laid
before the House previous to granting the supplies.
Lord PALMERSTON said that. the Army and
Navy Estimates would speedily be prepared, but with
respect to the miscellaneous estimates, he could
give no distinct pledge as to what time they would
be ready ; because they depended in a great mea
sure upon circumstances.
Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT confessed he was
much surprised at the explanation given by the Noble
Lord. The Hon. Member, alluding to the large outlay
of money for improvements at Windsor and the
Parks, wished to know whether any further sums
were to be demanded.

Mr. DAWSON begged to assure the House that
there was no wish to delay the estimates.
Sir J. SEBRIGHT expressed himself satisfied
with this assurance. He would not wish to be
understood as opposed to the present Ministers ; and
with respect to the appointment of the Duke of
Wellington, he highly approved of it.—(Cheers
from the Ministerial benches.)

Sir M. W. RIDLEY said, that the expences ai
Windsor Castle were by no means excessive or un-
called for.

Sir JOSEPH YORKE thought the Government
ought to square their expences to their income, and
though inclined to support them to a certain extents
it was a choaker to him that a military man should
be called to the Government of a commercial Country,
He considered, however, the circumstance of the
Noble Duke's not being in the habit of making long
speeches, a peculiarly fortunate one.

The House then resumed.
RELIEF OF ROMAN CATHOLICS.

Mr. GEORGE BANKES rose, according tohis
notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to relieve
Roman Catholics from the payment of a double land-
tax. He did not anticipate any opposition, though
he was aware that there were some obstacles in the
way. He hoped, however, that the attention of the
House would be sufficient to overcome all obstacles.
In making this motion, his own opinion was corro-
borated by individuals much better acquainted with
the subject than he could pretend' to be. .During
the last Session of Parliament a petition was pre-
sented to the House on the subject signed by the
Earl of Shrewsbury, Lind Stotirton, and many other
individuals of the Roman Catholic persuasion. It
was only reasonable to suppose that those Roman
Catholic Noblemen and Gentlemen had not stated an
imaginary grievance, . but that the complaint which
they Made really existed. There were many gentle-
men who were better able to enter into the details
of this plan, and the grievance which it was intended
to remove than he (Mr. Bankes) was; but in a
few words he would give an outline of the
grievance to the House. The land-tax was established in
1692, in the reign of Williain and Mary, and it was pro-
posed to raise four shillings in the pound on all landed estates
throughout the kingdom. This produced two millions, and
then it was thought more might be raised by doubling the
land tax on those who would not or could not take certain
oaths, which was the case with Roman Catholics. This
change was therefore in the nature of a penalty on the con-
science of Roman Catholics. The law remained without
the slightest alteration till the year 1794, when it was pro-
posed to exempt Roman Catholics from the penalty, but as
it was not fair that what was lost to the State by the ex-
emption of Roman Catholics, should be thrown on the rest
of the kingdom, those whose property was liable to the
double tax still continued to be called on for it. The ad-
vantage was therefore perspective rather than real. The
land tax was never levied on the whole kingdom, but
on
William. Two millions were raised in the time of William,
and the same sum was raised now. It was said that the as-
sessment of the land-tax was unequal all over the kingdom,
he (Mr. Bankes) knew this to be the case, but it was no
reason, because the tax was levied unequally on Protestants,
that it should be levied unfairly on Roman Catholics.
The Roman Catholic Noblemen and Gentlemen who signed
the petition, presented last session, boasted that their an-
cestors were amongst the most loyal subjects in the days
of King William, and that they (the petitioners) were
inferior to none of the present day. He believed
he could account for the land tax being assessed
so unequally throughout the kingdom; it was heaviest on
those counties in the immediate neighbourhood, of London,
because in the days of King William those counties were the
richest ; the northern and midland countii" thin being corn-,
paratiyely poor and unproductive. In cdiausion he begged
to observe, that he should be ready to receive any suggestions
from Hon. 'Members who ;were not directly opposed to the
principle of the Bill. He begged, however, to state that it
would not answer the purposes Of those on whose behalf
he applied to the House if the Catholics were only put in
the same situation which the Parliament in 1793 intended
to put them. . This would not be a relief from the evil of
which they complained. In the case of the Roman Ca-
tholics it was a penalty imposed ; in others it was the result
if over loyalty, which did not permit theop:inrgsofnosr
lteoavtaektoe
the oath of allegiance then prescribed, or from other causes.
The Honourable Member concluded by m
bring in the Bill.

Mr. HUME seconded the motion the more readily from
the circumstance of his having some time since
presented a petitiin from a Roman Catholic (Sir
Thomas Beddington) who, on account of the double
arAessment, had paid 50 thousand pounds. The Hon.
Member was of opinion, that Commissioners ought to be
appointed for the purpose of carrying the measure of relief
into effect.
Mr. HURST said the Commissioners had great difficulty
in conducting the former arrangement, There were a

great number of small estates not taxed at all, and it was
proposed that these should be selected to bear the excess,
and so to conduct the measure as not to place any additional
sum on the Protestants.

Mr. CURTEIS thought that the House would find
greater difficulty than they supposed in carrying into effect
the measure now contemplated. He did not approach
the question with any Catholic feeling, but should watch
its progress. attentively.
Mr. BARING said, if there was any occasion upon
which motives of economy ought not to operate, this
was one, as the object of the Bill was positive jus-
tice—to do that which was declared necessary by
Parliament, and to effect which previsions cer-
tainly inefficient ones had been enacted. Inconvenience
might perhaps attend the progress of the measure, and a
sacrifice must perhaps be made, but it was due to
the Catholics that the public should bear that sa-
crifice, rather than that cases of hardship should exist.
Mr. G. DAWSON said, that although opposed to the
Catholic Question, no one could feel more glad than
he in doing an act of justice.—(Hear, hear.)—He
feared, however, that great difficulty would arise from the
number of Acts of Parliament in existence on the subject.
and also from the circumstance of very large tracts of land
having been transferred from the Catholics to Protestants,
but which were not released, as Mr. Pitt's Bill made the
tax perpetual. The lion. Member then alluded to the case of
Sir Richard Beddington, on whom the present law pressed
with great severity. If the individual appealed from the
excess of rates imposed on him, it would have the effect of
throwing the burden on the other lands, but as he hap-
pened to be the owner of the entire parish, he could
expect no relief from that proceeding.
Mr. BANKES replied, after which leave was given to
bring in the bill.