The Sun.
London, England, 1817-03-04 00:00:00

LANCASHIRE PETITION.

Mr. B. WapnAnssurose for the Purpose of pre-
senting a Petition, numerously signed by the Ma-
gist-IMM Clergy, Freeholders, and other
tants of the Hundred of Blackburn, hi the County
Palatine of Lancaster, expre4,ing their abhor-
rence of the conduct of those, who, under the mask
of Reform, wereendcavouring to subvert the Con•
stitution—who had emiisatics at work all over tne
Kingdom, endeavouring, by every art; to inflame
the populace, and stir 'twin up to acts of % iolence,
and carrying about petitions ready made for the
purpose of procuring the people by any means
to sign them. The petition prayed the
41Jonse not to consider that the feclinv of the
great body of the ileople were ca pressed in such
Petitions. The lion. Gentleman then stated,
that -the Mcking at which this Petition was
agreed to, Was most numerously and respectably
attended, and that it might be considered as ex
pressing the sentitnenta of the great hotly of the
Inhabitants of Laucaibire. Ile then Mentioned

at this Meeting was first appointed to be hei

• •
the Town Hail at Preston, but I hat otr the day
fixed for its taking place, the Hall-dors were no
sooner opened than a great hotly of the populace
rushed in.. and filled'. be Hall, to ,the exclusion
of the more respectable part of the people ; and
that when the place of assembly was thus filled,
au Address was agreed to, which was quite eon•
teary to the general feeling of the people.
On the question that the .i'etitiou should lie on
the table,
Lord STAxt.gy protested against its being sup-
posed that this was the Petition ot the people of
'Lancashire, or that it expressed the sentiments of
any other persons belonging' to that county than
those by Whom it was signed.
Mr. CAWTHORN maintained that this Petition
exgressed the sentiments of by far the greater part,
of the people of. Lancashire ; and eoutirrned the.

statement made by his Hon. Friend (%1r; Wilbra-
ham), as to the other Aleeting. The. Hall at
.which that .other Meeting was held was almost
entirely filled by people of the lowest order,
' and the Atijlress of igwally moved there, Was
njected, and an amendment to it moved, amid car'
-rigid by the majority, It would he great injustice
to the great body of the people of, Lancaster to
Consider such au. Address as expressive of their
tvelings ; an Address carried at a Meeting.of the
lowest orders, who he understood were harangued
by a ntischievouS person of the name of Casey, an,
Irish renegade:—(Llear, hear ! and emits of order'
from the Oppositiun):-Ale was not afraid, to, re-
peat Irish renegade and ajacohin.—(Hear,
hear ! mid order.)—What the anteudincnt Svas he
t!lii 4.l:saelly-know. but 'he was sure it did not

speak the feelings of the trveholders of "i
and he would venture to buy, that there were nut

twenty freeholders who voted fur ite although it
!va.4 cart led.
Mr. ltaoliattAm defended Mr. Casey. k more
respectable member of the commercial world, in
which he tong was, did not exist on 'Change, or
iit any other place where commercial tnen are in
the habit of meeting. He certainly had been un-
fortunate, but so far from .thinkiug his miafor-,
tunes any cause of reproach, be (Mr. B.) thought
they ought ruttier to have screened him from the
nit icic of the Honourable Gentleman. 'Plea!! him

a renegado—(Hear, hear, hear ! from the Opposi-
tion),--was so monst;•ons, and would he so iticon-
venient,•if applied to all those who left Ireland,
or who left their principles—(Hear, hear, bear!)
that he really wondered very much that the Hon.
Member for Lancashire, with all his Parliamen-
tary experience, should have used such language.
Such an attack upon an individual, for whom lie
(Mr, B.) would here claim praise for his uniform,
consistent, and manly conduct in public (and in
private life his character was not less praisewor-
thy), was, to say the least of it, very extraordi-
nary. Not less extraordinary was die attack
made upon the Meeting at
,Preston, because the
Address which was then agreed fo tlitl not meet
'the wishes of the Mover and Seconder of the ori-
ginal Address. He spoke trout good information
when he said that the Meeting at Preston had
been most numerously and respectably attended.
Mr. BARING observed, that the House was
liable to be imposed on by petitions, signed by
the lowest rabble, and purpoiting to express the
sense of a great proportion of the people of dif-
ferent counties.—(Hear, hear !)—He therefore
thought it highly desirable that there, should be
sonic legislative enactment to' regulate County
Meetings, called for the purpotie of petitioning
Parliament, as he knew himself several instances
in which a few active and mischievous Jasobins
were going about collecting signatures from the
lowest rabble to petitions drawn up by themselves,
end purporting to be agreed to at nutuerous end
respectable
.meetings of tire inhabitants of coun-
ties.--(Hear, hear, hear !)—The right of petition
would.be- best seemed by some legislative enact-
ment to prevent such impositions.,
Mr. BIRCH spoke in favour of the character of
Mr. Casey.—The petition was then ordered to
lie on the table.

THE LATE MR. HORNER.

Lord MotteeTP, in rising -.to move that a new
writ be issued for the election of a Member fur the
Borough of Saint Mawes, in the room of the late
Francis Horner, Esq., believed 'that. tie might be
allowed (although 'it might perhaps be rather an
unusual course) to trespa%s for a short while on
the time of the House.—(Hear, hear, hear !)--
He said unusual, because, without instituting any
comparison, lie wished to say a feW words as to
the character of his departed friend. That Gett,
demon having been for sonic time unable, from
bad health, to apply to the labotirs of his proles-
slots, or to his Parliamentary ditties, was induced
to try the effect of a milder climate. But the hope
failed, and the remedy was unavailing, lie fell a
victim to a llngnishing disease. Yet, under -the
pressure of heavy indisposition, he preselect! nu-
diminished,'•the serenity of his temper, and the
vigour and firmness of hi4mind. If he (Lord M.)
might be permitted, without trayelliog too far
into the path of private life, to notice those vir-
tues ivlticti embellished the pi ieate.eharacter of Isis
lend, be might say, that as a son and as a bro-
ther, he was the must exemplary—us a friend, the
most faithful and kind. These were virtues which
lie knew could not come within ,the consideration
of the House; but when they were (as in this
case) interwoven with a public character, thef be-
came public property:—(Hear, bear, hear !)
But us to the_ public. character of his fliend, he
might confidently appeal to that profession of
which be had been SO distinguished an ornament—
he might appeal to this Musk,_ where he was, al-
ways heard with feelings of admiration.. (hear,
hear, hear ! from all sides of the House.)—lic
might be allowed generally to soy, that he
had raised the edifice of his own fair fame on
the firm basis of rectitude and conscientious ho-
nour. Ardent in thelowsuit of -truth—zealous in
the cause of hunianity; he avas inflexible in that of
justice ; and in the expression of his opinions in
:his house, he employed that chaste and -simple,
but at the samc.titne, nervous and affecting.style,
which. seemed to combine the force and precision
of legal argument with the refinement and ele-
gance of, philosophy. It would not be necessary
for.., him to say any thing as to his political opt,:
pions, to conciliate, or to provoke observations
from Members on the other side of die House.—
(Hear, hear !)--Bot he was sure, whatever differ
reisce there might have been, in their political opi.
'lions, it must now be forgotten.—(llear,rbear,
hear !)—They would allow that the man whose
loss they now deplored, had never by any means
aimed at undne poptilarity.—(l-lear, hear, bear !)
—lt would be allowed that titre expression of hiS
opinions, however*manlyand decided,' Was never
tioetured- with any thing like perSonal 'invec-
tiyce.,---(llear, hear !)---And yet, successful its his
exertions hail been in that House and elSewirerei
considering; the contracted' Span of, hits life, they
could only be con,idered as the harbingers of iris
future fame—HS affording an earliest of what was
to be expected from the maturity of his talents..
But alas ! his career was prematurely closed. His
death was a loss to his fatnily-a, lois to his
friends--a loss to his country; in any times of no'
.
Ordinary magnitude, but in tittles like the present'
most severely to be fell. He had studied the
strtictilre of our Constitution, and deeply tot,-
templated every branch of the politics of bis coun-
try, sometimes with the slew of exposit*. its de-
fects, and sometimes to point out its perfections.
Amidst the deepness of our sorrow for such s 3 loss,
it WAS some consolation to think, that a man not
possessed of bere‘lirary rank or fortune, should,
by his cm n talents, be'ithre to 'vindicate tO him-
self a situation in society, of which those born
to the highest honours and the greatest wealth
must hove been proud.--(Hear, hear, hear !)--
The Noble Lord concluded amid cheers from all
parts- of the House, by begging pardon, not for
having introduced the subject, but for having done
it 'so imperfectly. 'He'then
" That a now Writ be limited for the election Ist a 'relent-,
her to serve in the preser4 rash:intent for the lioriktpth of St.
Mawes, in the room of rVailtilt IJortier, Esq. decease*" -
Mr. CANNING...N.Of all the cases its wilicis that

course had been punned, !bleb bielo
oti
had entered upon this ttigbt, 'sod "4►
one through' with so much 01'4°7:
taste, be could recollect no Instance In
could he so sure to sandier the 10 0
Members on all sides of the Hattse—( ,i.,01
hear,!)---I{e (Mr. C.) had not the billri
the personal and private acqueistmlqi.` 1
whose loss they now lamented —be ~
only in this {louse`; and for I!
1'3,1 not the good fortune 11
splendid and nisture_etforts.
ailwireil the 'earning and tient
played--;-*liis temperate and* tin
genuine .warnali of his feeling);
be was betrayed—and, adder
modesty with svhich be bole IL
accompanied by that firmaese
were so conspicuous in bits elt_i'.
the goodwill, and cornmandeu
whether in the discharge of I
l'arliamentary' ditties.—Cikar
conclude withotitadopting life
Noble Ft lend, that it would hi
any remembrance of differs:no
nions with other feelings excite
But when be beard this lioto",
coed time brought forward 8$
of splendid talents, be might, 1
for the theoretical defects of
slim that it worked well whe'
House men, who, gifted by P'
lents, might there have an ,
veloping or maturing, so as to
touters of the councils, and of
country.—(Licar, hear, heal !)
Mr. 114;stizsts SUTTON said,
his fortune, for several years, ti
private friendship of that (listing'
lossithe House and the Cum,'
plore. No change of circtuns•t
wish the regard—the severer].
which he felt for that excellent so°'olll,l
Noble Lord had so eloquently
the House to appreciate more devitlYt loot
it bad sustained. It was not oily 'a, f, COt
but in all- times, that the loss of slic'lscort
tion of integrity and of talent, tyjis..,s To
lic calarnity.--s(flear, hear, Ilea", A Ds
Hon. Gentleman who spoke last 3ecteto
the he did not know the pviv'tte clu'iri 1001
Horner; but there was no wan %110 I', iv 1
in private life, who bad not witnes.ssstioo,
virtues that adorned his private -heir
guess what a chasm he had left in the WO
friends. 'fhere never lived, s 101;100
could more truly be said, that wiletc 11,:slite
stated,ie 0
in public , life he was respected end
(i. Ile
priest e life he was esteemed and 10t.c., 00
anxious that the House should hear °I; op Ifi
few words, in discharge of it 'ltch(, "100•11
of gratitude as (SP:justice, to the I°' it, ol'
`ear. a friend.—(Cheers front all I'd
11-.°lltllis..e.C) C. WyriN. e.--After wh.s' hid )1)r:1e:1'4'1'11
.saiii, he was afraid it tnight elill,ear, I,l'oll
for uny one to say more. llis .o°`' ryirieOi:
li`vult with the feeling natural t° c",‘sibilt'l
Alr.`flortier ou his Character, which. ' odn,
rayelelicity of cat•rying all tbc antealliroi in I,
tress of feeling which distingaisbed 'eter °ll,
IV° public lite. The public el'grsothsili,i
tiorner was more distinguished thl.spiot'el)l,.,
He neve°ruelxillieibliltaedd ever
lki ena°t%---vailef`):rl;ll.l,4ol i'''Y" b:,l:,i‘iil
taliemethotbileatrrya_y ktiomhii:tfocai totis:e:lt's woootoAi.ip:
be ni ight afterwards regret, Hi!, 1- leas ii" i
(eat:llll.:edSleelitt.ro:S.:.) ROMI 1. LY.—Having bagi biheiiiiii:Pol)°,o4*l
if long and most intimate itien"s ; feit,,./
llorner, be was desirous of sayjogiobiov
on this most distressing occasi°"' ss . °lli'
iit()ltiisr.illiniterttt;:sew.e)it,it I
infitit,•iviifviolayrtstencaobtinu,sitiiitai soeli.titiuip:uinshoilsiib.tcisielialc!eb:: ioili':1:0:.
was The indupendence of his eh/111185st°' A
that independence, which, while het'. of 0114
Of British and foreign politics' wili.e
°lel:"
apart in t he discussions in this flollre'lla Isli'
the Snine time continue die pail° illigblui
• h , nir
his characoterr al
n Piir;liehSesj4()S6;rinS.V;lllll:Velaretr):ls?l,'
theii uteri's were
last wtetir.eo
v sufficiently
continued the practice of Itifrr°1C!,131).9"'„101„:
of independence.--(Hear, heart 1,i4100r:I a'
loss of some of tYlieeargsr'etalitiesstlipt)lll:lciel:lo;3l)°rect6teiri 1)Iii
ad adorned the country. But in to, . litfolpf.
ere was ts-Omething that dist iniViis:l,s'il 11 it'l.,
~The other great men id' t.,istissel44l
'tri"g the period which he Ili; oil g/,';111)
attained the meridian of their 01111:e0cli 411;r
1311 t when he recollected boiv l° celieso`or
ing Session _die eloquence of hisles oisil IA
hall. acquired netv, forces—haw 11„s,..eissl I'l4l
;al?" new•powers—how his iutLoiso see 0,01,
litiaa(cit
notbe e tri
ei,zi reodetel lc,
diits
ttivilactl
iesilscYd stt
_A o,eati
jell:, I:,°.
it t elotl° ,of i
lie ,vas rapidly advancing• sr sosjeet‘'r ill.
ever distingnished, xi's s in iiseif a hieel i'-' 1
admiration : it was thetind and 0 Joe, .-
it was employed, that made it
-chefVala. sititigt
franchisement of the slit ve--the ‘. Ana 1 'lll,t
—to extend the means ot education,. or -I
. tl"'t a l'''tlitl
proving the condition of [napkin i. owe 0 A
voting it to such objects that it '4 Ist tb 0 .d
~, ~,, s( ' ett
virtue. To these e„d„; alone i. -at!, pas.- 0
"livable matt had applied those I'll, [Pori .!'...•
which Heaven had endowed hin)."(
sli, 1 e..) , tlltltli.
II eaq.! trom all parts cf. the isst %101 l 1 igica,,,s
Air. W. TZ,
—I,LIOT.—.AIIIOIIS I° - 1,004401
could not deny himself the trelancho )„ Ass ,i,
!, ' ftsteelPas "':oi:
o adding (,is humble tribe 0 ar 11,
lion to the meruorY of that exce iiritle°,,iosd,
'lent el" I,
loss so many now deplored. Hi'
able 'ilicg; il Fit
his excellent talents, his 1,1401r6-- Irento;eorq.
sober zeal, his chaste eloquence:ooolo4
one of the greatest Ornantent.oa, he b,f0..1i,'",_
well as of the profession.") • %°)I 161°111°0'1'10'
and R finished tnodel to the rising g %ow (t, ,titlt(
loss of such a man, at such a iit°e'• !dolt' sty
, tot } to ill,.
tempt to estimate ? Be had lase' rits le eV":
this •world at a time when hit/ lii•elly del' d
ito or .4
-deeply felt, tho' certainly not Ye- nieyt eel
and. When his country hail the gi:e'-'4‘3l I
,ot''
such eminent talents Ana inter°. t;
from all parts of the I-louse.) iig 101 the
Mr: C. GRANT, itlll.---01"--1-

others.

the IWO li"i
Witritsl
But iiC
It
130Iy
vt.lwo in°
ed to Ili I.
bis
and hoetW,
110101)
11.1CO.PT
bis
9-110 c!'e
• ,
01)!,. •
pe
itt
led optot!:
,ugh 00111!"
$ vocallt 4 I.
as vane colt,
Our C°lBo
eu it leniatare ~ta,
opporitilit
o ,
,v
, the
Idust I .0.0
to ljave C"in/r4
pit
try 11'1(1 until
tances

101

~M~

. ,
~,
, . .
6,,„1:4 4,lol4l4rutioner even before lie hid
,1—,..,a alitSbet tif-this House, he could not
.V,lPl'ttleif the ratification of adding one or
:rollfs. to the impleicatimOnies of the virtues
.!?n' tillYttlrelffed girt, it was pleasing to °h-
elicit *hotelier difference of .opinion might
exist in the lint
c°lll4 sills tee on ordinary occasions, they
y thera.alitle to unite on a subject, in
11111llkill, 110-.1'6-Moe with the country, they had
414-10 !Masi', so Irreparable a loss. But
iltal 1113.0ettrely -his talents; transcendent as
liblltrer*, Which etonmanded the admiration of
t„'"u°,',lf tile inn charm of his oratory Was
1---jr.masepitical spirit, Its recant! charm was his
,4!°4litnteuee'--lits noble and exalted sentiments
7,lllrtret If to these were added his private vir-
ile,H"lllesitilliitilti be .e
that the House never was
11,4kt"ePlore Is.loll more severe—(Hear, hear,
-16ik''''''iltuveS'er high hii public virtues, those.
ere--"It abet~ sir his friends and his faint-
sit
leiel'*liith" (bent 1.--( Ilea r , hear !)
g) .„kttLibilickt;taeieirtdd not'refraili from stating
r"wogithiteliell nil of adelitation and respect
which he. oat-
tlifeintoiiii 'tif Mr.- HOrher 1
ttitegitlitsie+ln private Ile, in emit-top
r''7'lll.lo)-iitetb4 private,
spoken, felt twat by his
illtii.l444l)ttyliail 'aristainell'n. most extreme
,i7toili•jl,ll9llg.il,
Vitt the present tinestioor.
' thetas','""4ot -or Able to come to any decision
.the
.s/ritift.liorner'S character, yet he
Itht
0-0' HreiAltsl: lf:the„ strotimente, of the House
14144., by 4. trots' on that subject, it
0,4);,-4
egil-00-31411ti050n5,.,-(Cbeering from all
41-0 - r
I 9i)
Walt then—i
ILA retiti to. ,
°l4l4Ydttsi _pr• - -:.
' • 41110..11, Y esent:tt
,a petition from `.1... against th•
Hobttas Corp
the
R t,
1 ILI
v"ii whitis W 43 reede awl yrdered tous
. ,
P ifie I
~.--7 Oval 9ruerfetl for the election of a
flirt. if; ibi Prirliament fur the, 80,
, lll,_,:s.istiiell,-. its „Au room of Lord John
' .
At
s.' .iin,
~. talerzto
it, try ' •
rillL ~,,ort.tmheil to know when)" it.
ic ,-,74,14..netv Lottery
44090 was to be euntractert
4
it'-. Al,Fiti,tee of the' ExcitegNEß
14144 ;MI that the contract WAS iti, Cc to
.14 trims nt the Act bf Pediment
~ .
si,s,wi,„,,, to know whether i,trir
ofas
t/lekniiii) 4eP lip the offices of Inspect'
..
itit v"1/12:411 : Win/ had been appointed wall
7-..,:i4,414.1,:4, lalt-ear, when the Propel ty Tax
le '4't() per, cent. ?
4 44teesl.t.o
ilqtaih_ , It of the ExcriECIUBR,
.inlei.ittvie-
,o4 41 li Noble Lord's question, beggi-," have
t,Sti to to the Report of the three C.oinni
Illirlyhten
ttli.e Reduction of Offices, which hadti
tp,Areillit'lti before the House, and by
i:et..
1144(lwithi'l'at all those inspectors were to bet s
kh,lllitle l'e all
of three, atilt the reason
441Iiittl.rte Were to be stilt kept up would be
II vla Ilea 14 '
ittet,
putt.
I4),tvtth,,,s ordered to be kid before the }Loose
Cil47 ttl,ltis tile Salaries of the Clerks and other'
iilittl!! Post-Office, with the dates of til I .
ll4'‘ t4l
anti noY augmentation ot their Ski-
firiA: tlii rellt:to AccorN-rs.
etOjI4IOII,ANI WI 11,t1 t
ittki it Litt) , 3 L o ask a question
public
ill lb. UntOttliiii%sitlll for auditing
rela ',.
4/II 'e 4,) 'expellee of which altogether appeared,
14rs
4!,,17.000/. or 18,0001, a year. For
04.14 „it.'' kk Lill, its expences were 40,0001..
kbilit liitola,t of RCeotints audited was only
Niittf ,h().do/. which Wait an expellee to t 101.
bil;4ttqt,,,‘e 41. per cent. for the amount
Li
lit„qkliintiti4 Ittillited. At this rate, if the Lis"
I,;tat,,ii;t4thonnted to fitly millions, the ex.-
44. 'lto, 114 their, ;done would cost the Puhite
t,141111', i4111.4&1. 't he first item in the account
,Itot'liiii, J ,of the Auditor-General of this,
tigillii I: Nell was 3000/, a year ; and it tuns
lit Xi received tinder the Act of the 46th
It. stn 12,,,
Litt h,. u9l. II year, end 3001. for house-
t".4lleil to kiwis, it the salary of 12001.
i,entietted during that Officer's stay at
ere, '
'''.ol,:`,.4latt,„ ‘ . .
1h1,1: lite ~ -",' Of the EXCHEQUER said, that
wil'itar.Q:. toe account, it appeared that
[lttiN, ,;111.41 received the whole of these
teiii." 'Fell, eoesidering the heavy ex-
'lttitir "eh It rth 'tleri that " was subjected, was but lust.
t 'reet but tile expenses of this Commission
'4O ' CI .
It titles ihoonlie advantages to the public see-.
motile *link °llaidy great. It was expectid
otl altiti tip
.Itruolint of the txpence of this
41,14001. 'us termination would be about
C,
iv •.144
~,, Nlq . .
(S" (If ' ''"fl lie teas well aware of the
hll 114"Iiiiig through these most complex
ell4ft'ill'leti tie,en'll'i )ear testimony to the e.hle
,h, :14)irivid.'uhhtnr-General, Mr. Dawkins,
11:,,Ilsouw. d'llls mid most lahriotts offiee•
„,,,,,i4g 04e,“" desired not tope understood
tt,4l.ltouii7i'd a%hitist Mr. Dawkins, ‘vhom
it h uhe u most deserving public
' qk
!Itilt 41:141)° bite tettinThßy to the ability with
irlriti 4 litykiris exec °`
his
ss Peliaqi,,i., li eeltoe duties of
"..lhe
nie.„«,,)ity of the utility of this Com-
i ENT, '' li
~ was then acrreed to.
ertS 11.01:.„,t18.,141414.1Nr.i5' 11611,L.
I 1.
I e
t i
q 1,11114
tf 1 ?"ettAi sole to move the se-
44111:14”gted fr,)(l,:lanilelihil, a• lid said that those
,who
,1)11,1,, extensive 'l,lOll of the Secret tont-
„ sliatinns t
.3ta.no dangerous conspiracies
tlii,r.t, of Rum, x_t t‘i, would he satisfied of the
ilit';
tail ititetwe'le
ililli. the only Meetings
i, 4tietion
of ' °Prevent were such as hail
'ttsitir wilieli t„4„ cell"ill number of Magis-
Itillpe4)tielle.s whie'ilYetill.ot„.entivenell according
cllit 11,1111
,lits 4 'Atecti t Isill would prescribe.
i!tii tbitttiltolders
wi'llotg to be demanded by any
~ tietio 41 tty 1;e kr,,,.21e to give in their
I,' Use ,41,noiti exl'i."."'il who they art:. The
r'inß t )111, whit' Jilted the other regula-
-4141, titi iitly
atti„l.(tVtrit toprevent the pro-
illth)f,t.,44 whit:it:l44 matter at any such
4 tv
ill
it here
w43t. Ake!) up.
litlty thilmt4itied it tiolewt"old cause, the persons
11c. proceeded
itilleteliiiii I the fileyea,Pulie necessity for the
leti. kUI el. 1/9G, Tle should pro-
-411 il u.Y te,,.4114e 1(4
e-a iti --,41 preventing Aieetings
order
,i.u.useholders, front being.
.4,4 there might be proper

notice given of evel.), Meeting, es an Otiginal One.
This would prevent large bodies of people from
• being kept in a state of fancied contiguity,
if he might so call it. The object of the gill,
therefore, was .not to touch any fair and legitimate
Meetings, but only to prevent or check sneli as
were of a mischievous tendency, Another object
was, to prevent Debating Societies. or rooms for
reading newspapers, the keepers of which receive
money. This was the purport of the law in 1796 ;
but which being found ineffectual, was. amended
in 1799. But as the regulation respecting these
rooms were contained in the 36th of the King,
when that Act expired, that of the39th expires) also.
The second object of the Bill was therefore in-
tended to unite the intentions of the two Bills
just alluded to. It was not intended to make these
regulations perpetual, but only temporary; name-
ly, for three years, and to the end of the then
next Session of Parliament. The statute of 1799
had for its object the suppression of certain socie-
ties specified by mune, and others constituted
in a particular way ; such as those that ad-
ministered oaths and tests, or.those which haul
branches and delegates. But that statute did not
touch the great evil of certain societies of (lie
present time, such as those for inducing people to
commit acts of insurrection against the Govern-
ment, through the means of what they called de-
legates, committees, or missionaries, to confer
with other societies. These were to be declared
unlawful combinations, and the object of the
Bill was to prevent the evils that arise from
them, Another object of the 13.11 was, to
suppress the Spenceun Societies, , whose. princi-
ples were totally incompatible with any civilized
state of society, or any regular 3yttem of Uhvern-
mew. Therefore, with respect to that society
called Spenceans,, the very doctrines it held out,
condemned it as unlawful without any inquiry.-
The same exceptions in the 39th of the King,
respecting the Lodges of Freemasons, &c. would
be admitted in the present Bill. lit tact, it was
not in:ended to atlect any Societies but such as
were evidently constituted for the purposes of mis.
chief, having in view the overturning the-Govern-
ment, and destroying whatever Irian holds valua-
ble in society.
A Message from the Lords announced that
their-Lordships had agreed to the Malt and Pen.
slums' Duty Bill.
Mr. Possotia observed, that as there were.
more stages than one in which this Bill could be
examined, lie should not oppose the second read-
ing. lie saw no objection to the provision re-
specting having seven resident householders to
sign every requi;ition. lie had, however, some
objections to other parts of the Bill ; but he
wished it to go intoa Committee, where an oppor-

tunity would be afforded fur better understanding
it. He saw no reason why the part of the Act
of 1799, which held out inducements to persons
to quit such societies, who had belonged to them
before it was passed should be omitted. The
Right Hon. Gentleman made some observations
on other parts of the Bill, with a view to their
verbal improvement.'
Mr. CALVERT had attended one of those regn-
lady called meetings this morning in the Borough,
The meeting came to an unanimous resolution to

petition the House against the passing of any
other law besides the habeas Suspension
Act, which might abridge or curtail the liberties
of the people. This
,petition he should have the
honour of presenting to-morrow, and must there-
fore protest against the hurrying of the present
Bill.

Sir. F. DURDETT felt it impossible not to protest
against this measure in every stage of it. it was
a cruel infringement on the liberties of the sub.:
jeet, to prevent the people from meeting to pea.;
tints for any remedy of their grievances. It at-
tacked the most important right of petitioning
that House. The people now complained so
loudly, that Ministers did not choose to listen to
their complaints, and therefore they tried to stifle
their voice. It was the petitions that had already
come in that alarmed them, and induced them to
take such unjust steps. There were 600 petitions
now on the floor of the House, signed by more
than a million of people. There never was a pc-
riod of such distress, wherein the people had con
ducted themselves with skid) unexampled order
and patience ; and he, would therefore say, that
there was not the slightest pretence for thus in-
fringing on their rights.„ The present measure
was the most unjustifiable and unjust of any that
had been brought before the House ; for it was
utterly impossible `that any danger could arise
the'Snenceans, were it only from the ab-
.
serility of their'princiPles.
Lord W.,ltussuta..prAested against the Bill
before the Muse, The7.lill for the Suspension
Of the Habeas Corims.:4st and Trial by Jwry bad
been carried, and be .tit'atild not consent that one
iota more should be.subtiacted from the liberties
of the people.
Mr. LAW was decidedlyin favour of the mea-
sure. ThoSe who were alarmed at it out of doors,
were only.so from the fear of not being able to
carry their machinations into effect. The Bill,
so far from taking away the right of petitioning,
gave the right of free discussion. Could th*s he
said- to be taken away, because Magistrates. rat
tended at the meeting, and au opportunity was
given them of knowing the real state of the coup-
.try ? If it were granted that the schemes of the
Spenceans were impracticable, would it be said
that there was no datiget in the dissemination
of their principles 1, Their object was to make
their harvest from the property of those they
were cicleavouring to overthrow. Notwithstand-
ing the enactments in ,the measure, before the
House, meetings might,still be, held at different
places on the same day, which might distract the
attention of the Magistrates anti the military force
of the country., Ile, tb.inght it might be so ar-
ranged, that, persons who intended to call nieo-
ings..shOuld be obliged fo,giye a notice of a week
or.ten days, that the Magistrates might be enabled
to take their measures beforehand.
Sir '
2„
JOHN NEWPORT hoped
,the „tail! would only
be Committed pro forma,, a4;it • war not too much
to expect that the House wOUld,!talt4o every part Of
it into its most mature cot itileration after it was
printed.
—Stime'explanatorysOngtatitin took place be-
tween Mr.Calveit, ni!:Betibelig;OftlCattlereigh,
and Sir JolauVewporr 'tifttv
•

-r
~.

The AftottrzeV-Gestett tr. observed, that the
promoters oldie Bill felt it their duty, as well as
their inclination, to bring forward all the'cleuses
they meant to propose at once, and that they
would have nothing to add in the Committee. The
Honourable and Learned Gentleman then entered
into similar explanations of the nature and tendency
of the measure as had been afforded by the Soli-
citorrGeneral.
Mr. Gunton' said a few words.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY wished. to call the attention
of the House to the Clause relating to D sortlerly
Houses, which described as such those where per-
sons assembled to read books, pamphlets, -and
newspapers. He also strongly objected to the
preamble, which set out with asserting, that
" whereas assemblies of the people have been pro-
ductive of riots and disorders," which rendered
this measure necessary. Now, he would appeal
to every man who beard him, whether this was
not a gross libel upon the people. He would say
it states what is not true ; for, with the solitary
exception that occurred in Spa-fields on the 2d of
Deceinber, there had been no riots or disorders at
any such meetings. Such a falsehood, ther4ore,
ought not to pass without serious animadversion
Lord Cocoaatie hoped the House would pause
before they gave Ministers the power to suppress
all the public sources of reading and information.
He adverted to whet bad been mentioned in the
Report respecting the disposition of the people at
Glasgow, and begged leave to read an extract of
a letter from Mr. Macarthur (whose name had
been introduced on former evenings) on that sub-
ject. it stated that people were persecuted by the
Spies of Government. One Gentleman had been
seized in his bed at one in the morning, charged
by a malicious Spy with disaffection, and having
arms in his house. Heleas thrown into a dungeon
and kept for two nights ; but when examined, lie
was liberated, the whole being false. The 'letter
added that the reign of terror was begun., and the
indignant people must detest the practices that
were resorted to to ensnare the unwary, as time
above was a plot of time creatures in the pay of
Government. The Meetings alluded to at Glasgow
were not political, hutnutrely for obtaining paro-
chial relief, which- was not obtained in Scotland
as in England. He was afraid the intention
of all these Bills was the destruction of the
preiq, as no man would
.ha sate after they
had passett; for if be went.intri a box in a coffee-
house, anti gave a free opinion, a waiter might
inform against him, on,whose oaths he would be
committed. This was really not a state in which
the people deserved to be placed. The Lord Mayor
had,. be under Stood,• stated at the Common Coun-
cil, that lie himselt had furnished two-thirds of
the contents of the green bag, and he did not be-
lieve in the serious opinions that had been enter-
tained about them. It might be very convenient
for Ministers to,.divert the attention of doe public
from those objects which were really injurious
to the country, and which struck at the very roots
of trade and commerce. But he trusted the gond
sense of time House would see through this. He
read further extracts from the iibove-rueetioned
letter, which stated, that time people of Glasgow
had published a declaration, in which they stated,
that they had seen with grief the Reports laid be-
fore Parliainemmt, which as far as they related to
them, contained not a shtiilaw of truth. They
had never heard even the name of the Spenceans
till they had seen it in the newspapers. The
Lord Mayor (his Lordship continued) had esti-
mated the whole- number of these visionaries as
not exceeding 100, and there was plenty of room
in Bedlam for them all. It was, therefore, ne-
cessary that a Bill, for which such Societies was
made the pretext, should undergo the mos
minute discussion.

Mr. BAHING conceived that every Gentlonanii

the House was AS able to judge of the state of the
country as every Member of the Committee ; and,
certainly, as far as his knowledge extended, there
was no occasion whatever for invading the

ties 'of the people. lie had not the least doubt
th►►t some blasphemous publications „bad been
brought before the Committee ; but lie could not
for a motneht believe that sttch, publications • pre-
vailed throughout the cpun!ry.. There never was
a time within his recollection or reading, when
there existed a stronger religious feeling and re-

•_
neration ,for those sacied subjects, the detestation
of which seemed by the Report to be one of the.
grounds of these proceedings. This was a period
in which enthusiasm seemed to have taken 'hold

of tt►e roiods of wen, and a disposition had spr►►ng

up in the lower classes to dive into unknowable
mysteries, and to puzzle themselves with what
they had better leave alone.---(A laugh.)—As to
the riot which followed the meeting at Spa-fields.

a very inconsiderable part of the population of
the metropolis had been concerned icu it.:
.half
a dozen people got down from a waggon,•and
very few joined them on their way to the

. .
-City. With respect to the Spencean plan, he
had never once beard of it till he saw the lc-
port ; and, even then, he knew so little of the
founder of that sect, that he thtnglift he had been

a Mr. Spence who wrote a pamphlet a few years
ago on foreign commerce. Connecting these eir-
cat»stances together, he was decidedly of opinion

that there had been very great exaggeration in

the apprehensions of the Committeel-I'nd of his
Majesty's Ministers. lie cold,' not hnt think,
that ►►il the plots or plans, or Whntcver they ►were
to be called, might have been put down, jf lett

alone, with perfect security to the country. It
did not appear that them was any intention of
opposing the BilLgoing into a Cominitteu ; and,
therefore, be should not deliver his opinions upon it

at present ; but he could not suffer it to pass even
thus far, without stating, that it' contained some
provisions, which, if ultimately carried, would give
Ministers a disoetionary power over the most
harmless intercourse of society,
Mr. IVY NNE, as he lead not been a Member of
the Committee, had had no opportunity of know-

ing the nature of the evidence on which they had
founded the Report ; but from reading that Re-

-port, he_ had no hesitation in believing that. the
d„„ger. extruded to a much greater length than
was generally thought. How the Lord Mayor
could have searched through the contents of the
sealed bag, and have known the evidence.; hat the
Members had before them was to him a mystery.
The Report did not state thOse societies to be fire=
valeta over every part of the kingdom, but over a

' very great part. He could not do otherwise
than give his confidence to those who fratr-
ed the Report : as it was not possible', 11,,r
would it have been justifiable tor them to
give the evidence. Ile would not, however,
pledge himself to give his support to the whole of
these measures, particularly to those that applied
to reading rooms 811(1 libraries, which he thought
%vent farther than any thing that was ever in the
contemplation of any man !Afore. The Honour-
able Gentleman adveried to the nature of the Riot
Act, which was as old as almost any law in exist-
ence. It made the hundred liable to the damage
committed by rioters but it had been decided
that damages could not beTecovered, unless it
was proved that it was the intent of the rioters to
destroy the house. In the riot on the 2d of De-
cember, one person had his house entered and
robbed of property .:0 the Lllllootit of 10001. and
I.e could gain no redress whatever. lie there-
fore suggested, whether it would not be advise-
able to extend redress in cases of riots of all de-
scriptions.
Lord RANCLIFEE differed front the Honourable
Gentleman who spoke last; lie thought the Lord
Mayor w.as as likely to know the nature of the
contents of the green bag as Alinisters them-
selves.
The Bill was then read a second time. '
Mr. PONSONBY put off his motion till to-mor-
row, on the 'subject of coetinning commissions
on the demise of the Crown. The Hon. Gentle-
man thought there could be no objection to Ills
motion being brought on to-morrow, as thella-
beas Corpus. Bill would receive the Royal..As:ieot.
and there could_then be no necessity for hurrying
the present Bill through the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the Ii'ACHEQUER sail.
there was no with on the part of Ministers that
it should he unnecessarily hurried; but, on the
other hand, it was desirable that it should mit be
unnecessarily delayed. It was proper that time
should be allowed to afford the measure due con-
sideration ; but he thought even the House must
wish the blanks to be filled tip as soon as possible.
Mr. l'oNsoNeY iViSilell not to interpose unne-
cessary. delay, and hoped the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would not carry the Bill through the
House with unnecessary haste.
The CHANCELLORHOf the EXCHEQUER had no
objection to the motion of the Right Honourable
Gentleman being bronght on to-morrow.
The Bill was ordered to be committed to-mor-.
row.

The House went i►►toa Committee on the Carte
Repot t ordered to he received to-morrow.
The Report respecting the London Coal Trade was brought
up, and leave given to bring in a Bill.
Lord PALMERSTON gave notice, that on Wedrecday, ho
should move fur a grant of 500,0001. un ,account of the
Ordnance, and on Monday, that the Estimates be %alien into
consideration.'
Mr. CALCRAFT could have wished
,a later day was ap-
pointed for considering the Eitimates.
The Array tirdoetion Bill was read a third time and passed.
The Treasonable Practices Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The noise resolved into a Committee on the Passengtrs
Regulation Bill.—Report to be received to-morrow.
REFORM PETITIONS.

Sir' F. BURDETT *moved, that the Petitions
which lay on the floor, signed by neatly a Million
Of subscribers, should be received. (There ap-
peared to be nearly a svaggan-load of petitions;
they lay in a heap, and almost covered the floor
pf the House w•e understood there were (iOO
of them )
The SrEAKEß.—Bring them op.-7-(A laugh.)

Sir FRANCIS' Buanirr then stated, that they
were all to the same effect ; but after the clerk
had read the. names of. libtaburnc, Derby, Hod.
derstield, Kingston-upon• Hull, Manchester • and
Salford, Bolton- le-Moor, Loughborough, and Mel-
bourne, it appeared that a great proportion of tire
Petitions were printed, .upon which the Speaker
informed the lion. Baronet, that he must take-all
such back ; one also was discovered to be ad-
dreased to the Prince Regent, which was likewise
ordered to be returned. •
Mr. 'MANNING rose to order, and observed, that
when the thin. Baronet knew that he had GOO
petitions to present, he should have consulted the
convenience of the House in ascertaining whether
they were printed or no, and he trusted that the
Hon. BarOnet would be cantions-for tht future.
Atter a few words from Sir FR A cis,
The SPEAKER suggested the propriety of pro,
cceditig-with the 'petitions sonic other 'day, 'Au
which Sir Francis acceded; and intimated that he
should theniusist on the propriety of receiving
printed petitions.
Serjeaut BEST having objected to-the language
and mode of signattne in sonic of the petitions;
The SPE AE. ER observed, that every one ac-
quainted with the proceedings of the House knew
how much business was done on .the faith and
confidence reposed in Members ; it was therefore.
to he expected, that- no petition which had once
been rejected would be presented a second time

after some few words from Mr. LA W And SIC
F, 13uRDurr,

The SPeAßrit again soggested the propriety of
adjourning to another occasion the question, ttbfit
the petitions do lie on the table.
A Member having discovered that one whole
column (if signatures was in the same hand-wr4-
iti;f:, end dm; many signatures were detached from
any petition, moved the adjournment of the ques-
tion, in which he was seconded by Mr. LAw.
Mr. Cat.eriAier thought it dillicultto decide at
a „§ingle glance that any number of signatures w'As
in one hand-whiting ; he extenuated the langu,ige
of the petitions ; and thought the signatures ntigjtt
H
litre been detached by accident. e considered
the proposed adjournment ai inenn'venient.
After a few words from the SPEAK 4n,
Serjeant BEST insisted, that the sending a num-
ber of Signatures In the'same hand-writing MA S is

gross contempt of the _House; and
that if the House wished to preserve to the sub-
ject the valuable right of petitioning, they ought

0 watch over the tit►c aitti'detent exercise of it.

Sir Fltattms .113uRnerr explained, that the sig.
nattires,had been accidentally detached.
Scrjeant ONst.ooi defended Serie:int BEST;
Atter a conversation between the Speaker and
Sir C. Monk, on the soVect of signing by proxy,
which the Speaker declared to be inadmissible,
except in the case of a party who was tibrrod4i...
and had given a written authority for 'that.

purpose,
Lord COCURANE rose to defend tilt petitions
be knew persons in office bad frequently procured