The Sun.
London, England, 1819-12-25 00:00:00

SEDITIOUS ANI) BLASPHEMOUS LIBEL BILL

The Order of the DAy'.haviug been read for the
tlnird reading of the Blasphemous Libel bill,
Sir ROI3F.RT WILSON said, he could not allow
'he Bill to pass through its last stage, without en-
tering his protest, against- it.- Tine object of it
was, he contended, under the pretext of putting
ilot.n blasphemy and sedition in the coutory, to
vi.date the sacred rights of toe people, and to
subvert the C9nstitution. It was wished by Go-
vernment to alter, in all its material points, the
political condition of that people, of whom a Bri-
tish King had attic!, he would attempt to make
himself the first span, and nothing more. The-
temper of the people, no the,subject of the new
and extraordinary powers atsomed by tire Go-.
rernment during the. present short Session,-would
be seen dining. the Recess. The Tion. Member
concluded by repeating his protest against this
he said, he was sure he would be
echoet" by the great majurity of the most zealous
ft lends of the honour and prOspCriiy of their corni
try.--(!irar !).
Sir H. PARNFUL did not.rise for the purpose of
going into the tviestion of the Bill before the
House ; he had already given his vote on that sub-
ject. All be at present &sited was, to remind the
Noble Lord (Caslerea,h) don this Bill its appli-
cation to Ireland, would not have the effect of re-
straining the publication of libels better than the
measurevar present in practice in that comitry.,---
The mode lie raided to was, of refusing to grant
stamps to any paper which liad once been con-
victed of publishing a libel.

The Bill was then read a thud time, and
passed.

THE ADJOURNNIENT, &e.

Lori CASTLEREAGIi rose for the purpose • of
staling, with regard to the period at which l'ar-
iiament would meet after its adjournment , hie!),
on a former evening, he hail said ,would be on the
Bth or lOth of F'ebritary,) that-the tetin of the
recess would be till the 15th of February. Now
he was on his legs, he would allude to another
subject Which had attracted his • attention, by a
Bill which, baying been printed, had been placed
in his hands. He alluded to a Bill, for which
leave to bring in had been •granted to a Noble
Lord (Lard J. flossell) whom he did not then see
in his place, which was for the disfranchising the
Borough of crrampottnd. As it was stated in the
printed copy of this Bill, that permission was
granted for disfranchising the Borotigh of Gram-
pound, and transferring the right of election to
-Leeds,- he was anxious to know if it had been
rightly understood by the House, that he bad not
pledged himself to the transfer of the elt•ctive
franchise to Leeds in particular. In point of
(act, lie had said, that, although he did not ob-
ject to that specific plan of Reform, of taking_
away the franchise •ftont the Borough convicted
of bribery and corruptioo in the case of Gram-
-pound, or in the case, perhaps, of any Cornish
borough-for the future, yet he neither pledged
himself to adopt that plan in all future cases, nor
did he pledge himself, in this particolar instance,
to transfer the elective franchise to Leeds. lie
hoped the House bad not understood him diffe-
rently.

Mr. GEORGH LAMB said, that without having
had any plevious Communication with his Not►le
Friend, he believed he could with confider►ce say,
that he load not understood tl►e Noble (gird (C -
lereagh) ditiervntly frotn,the explanation be liad
just given.

• (.),1 the motion of Lord CASTLEREAGH, it Was
oldered that the liorise, oti its risiog, should ad-
journ till Tl►ursday next.

COMMERCIAL PETITION.
Mr. ittviNß hegged leave to present a petition,
signed .by certain Alerchants and Traders ut Iltt
City of London, and, purporting to be a represen-
tation of certain grievances at ising from the state of
the manufactures of the country, HMI other causes
folder which the comniercial world were at pre-.
sent bebonting. The petition, he saiA, which
lie had to present, was not one .proceeding
from any factittn or party, neither did theptiesirt

to Point not, fn. In any. tray to itiferriint the enorge
which 1100. Members might thi. k tit to take in
giving. their attention to the prayer of halt ;Yeti-
tion. They undoubtedly hoped. that tl e
deration of their grievances would not beset aside,
but that it would be cordially attended to by his
Majesty's Government. The petitioners, as he
had before .stated, did not wish to point out any
specific cause of the distress which prevailed
among the commercial classes,; but hey hoped,
that if the House should think proper. to grant a
Committee On the subject, it would (urn its atten-..
tion to the proballe share which /the system
of commercial restriction and coercion which
existed might have nad in producing these dis-
tresses. They bepet% also, that the Commit cc
would find it worthy their investigation to con-
sider how far the china trade, which, by British
merchants, was at present entitely confined to the
atipplyiteg of Great PI itain, was capable of eaten-
sion. He allotted to the supplying of the to...ftinent
of Europe with the cotrimodities of China othielt the
Petitioners were sorry to observe was almost en-
tirely carried on tinder the American flag. He
merely presented this Petition in cortiplianee Witlt
the request of the persons who had pot it into his
hands, without in any way pledging himself to
he of the same opinion With the persons Who hail
signed it ; -hot he confessed that he did agree whit
them in. thinking that some modifications of the
Bullion Laws might greatly tend to the restora-
tion.of commercial prosperity. He thought that
it might most materially extend the opportunities
And means of the Bank to allow them the option
of making their Bullion payment's in the two Metals
of gold and silver ; and this be thought would,
flat be infringing on the principles of the !flea,
sores whitli Parliament had thought it fit,
tit
pass on the subject of the Bank Payments.---,
tie owned, that, as far as his opinion went, he
was-convinced that bullion, whether in the shape
of gold or silver, never wool(' be applied for as
a circulating medium. Ott thiS Important clues.,
lion, and on all subjects cormacted whh it,
could not say that he agreed in tine view taken
by' the Honourable Member for Portarlington
(Mr. Ricardo), to whom, the House was always
disposed to listen with great deference oh matters
of this description. The aystem'of that Gentle
malt, be thought, if gone into, .woold have the
effect of bringing the agricultural interests on a
par with the commercial. With respect to the
plan of, paying off the National Debt, fie Was sore
that if the Archives of the Canceller of the ix-
chequer .were examined into, It would be seen,
that scarcely a .year passed that some visionary
plan had not been proposed. He •thought, that
the vat His subjects he had been induced to touch
upon in a slight manoer, and which were mere
sogi.lestions of his own, not arising horn any de-
sire of the petitioners that he should state them to
the House, would be sufficient'to ioduve the House
to go into the subject. It the Chancellor of the
Exchequer did not come dowel to'the House at
the opening of Parliament after the Recess, armed
with some ffopoaition on this subject., he hoped
that Ministers would nut object to .he going into
.a Committee for the consideration of the grievan-.
ces set forth in the petition.
The petition, which was \then read, appeared to
he to the following effect :—Tnat the petitioners
were deeply. impressed with a sense of the great
distresses which at present prevailed throughout
the country, and they lamented more especially
those which oppressed the commercial classes.
They. aid not prtelid to say what were the causes
of this state, .but they assured that Honourable
House,.that they saw with regret that the House
was on the eveair adjoornment wit hoot some step
having been taken by it to inquire into the causes
of the, distress they complained of, which they felt
oetstoded if the 1-louse were to, do, a remedy
would easily be found, When once the cause or
causes- of it were ascertained.. The pvition con-
chided with expressing a hope that the Illuse
would take this matter into their most earnest
coosider.,tion, in order that the lamentable dis-
tresses. which existetrin the country might be like-
ly to meet with ao early termination. The peti.
Lion also 011uded to the other points mentioned, by
the getitlemati who presented it.
are, GaaNraLL was disposed to COIN-flair) of the
Petitioners, that if they had been in possession of
any -thing which twit led to the distresses they
complained of, or of any remedy for the same,
they should have allowed a whole mouth to pass,
that Parliament liad been assembled, and tint
think of heinging -their infOrmation fonvard till
the last day of i s sittinK previous to the Ad-
journment. IVith respect,' however, to this Peti-
tion, he would take the liberty of stating a few
facts to the douse. It was an extraordinary cir-
cumstance, that Until last night, whets be came
down to the House,- he hail never heard of this
Petition; and it was a circumstance which Made.
him then think that it was not of that general.
character which it would he attempted to give it,
as he thoight that such a Petition could not have
been generallycirculated the citytil London with-
out his being acquainted with it, particularly as he
had been in the Coy among commercial characters
of all descriptions- no later. than \Vedn.Fsday. He
had in consequence made it a point ofeduty to go
up to the City this morning, and the result of
that step was fully to confirm him in his original
supposition. Ile had conversed on the subject
.with a great number of merchants and traders, and
among these her had only toilful boar who were at
'all aware of the existence of the Petition. One
of these was a Member of that House, who hail
only been acquainted with the circumstance front
seeing it notified in the usual taay in whicli mat-
ters tor the discussion of the House were t»atie
known to Members. Another of these tour had
been Called upon by a friend as he was aboat to
go into the country, to go
.and sign the Petition.
His friend being very urgent, he, asked him what
was the nature of the Petition. Aid What was
the answer of this zealous Gentleman?- Why,
that it came fritm the othereti'd of the town—
trots) Lord Castlereagli l"—(Hear,- and a lattah)
—" and that
:his Lardship had agreed, provided
it should be stripped of all allosiou• to politics,
that he would give it his cordial suppeat." This
Gentleman, very properly, as he thmight, said,
that, if it cause from Lola Castlereagh, or any
other Minister, he would not sign it.—(A laugh.)
—Another Gentleman, who had signed it, said,
that " be bad -done it to oblige a friend, con-

relying it to be a milk-and-water Petition, which ' of Government were the cause of their distresses
tanold have the same course in the House that He thought the reply of the Earl of Liverpool to
most of the same kind had." The last of these the Duke of Hamilton, which had been read in
Gentlemen he had written to, to know what inn- the House on a former evening, was a sufficient
Live bad induced hint to put his name to a docu- indication of ,he desire of Ministers to do all in
ment of that description. This reply be would their power to remove the distresses of the Coon-
take the liberty of reading to the House. It try. If the persons in the suffering disn'icts could
was to the following effect :—" He had signed it not see any fit work to which it would be heurfi-
at the particular request of a Gentleman who had cial to apply the indestry of the distressed, how
begged him to go immediately for that purpose, could it be_ expected that Government could, who
or it would be too late. He confessed that upon were enacqtteinted with the localities of those
reading it, he had thought it ridienlous,—(A parts ?
laugh)—and particularly as on that account he Mr. GRENFELL said, be had been accused of
thought it was not likely to do any hatm, to having sphken distespectfully of the persons
oblige his friend he had signed it. He tiOW how- who had signed this Petition. He believed
ever declared, that since he had been aware of its that nothing which had fallen from him could
real object, and particularly of tite allusion it have that tendency. All that he had stated le-
made to the Bullion Laws, he was sorry that he hated to the manner in which the Petitioners
had signed it, and if there was any way of with- bad keen obtained to sign their names.. -
drawing his signature, he was desirous of doing Mr. DOUGLAS observed, ‘
teat t petition still
it." "Under these circumstances he would *ski not profess itself to be from the Merchants and
if it were right that this Petition should go forth
Trade City of Loudon. It only said trom
rf 0. t
to the world as the Petition of the eMerchauti
certain Merchants, &c. He thought it the duty
and Traders of the City of London ? Under the of Government ro consider of the present dis-
pretence of suggesting the eepedieuey of alttriog- •
tresses of t country.
the restrictive commercial laws, estni else Mr. FINLAY explained.
lily of extending the Chinese trade, its main ob. Mr. BROUGHAM expressed his regret that his
ject was to disturb the rules and regulations es Hon. Friend, the member for !Harlow, should
by law established for the payment of bullion, to fi:,,ee beet betrayed into those le marks which be
change the currency.—(Criei of " No.")—tie Iran tu
ar e 00 I teetetitioners without knowing who
bad a right to state his opinion on thit
tliey were. Had he seen theienanees he was con-
and stack it was, that he did think it extremely fident that he would not have been inclined to
probable that the Petition proceeded from a party /tees them with i•
t istespect.
who, thinking it possible that they tuight find
themselves crippled .in the Fends, and in over-
Mr. GRENFELL was not aware that he bad
trading—a species of gambling—were not. endea-
treated them will; disrespect.
vouring to create 20 216t111 throughout the coon- Mr. BRozsc Ham n,gged to ask, if it was treat-
try, that if the systette of paper-currency, which ieg them with no disrespect, to speak of eighty
be (Mt Q ) declared had almost resulted the couit- iof the Wrist respectable persons in the city, as
try, should be"abolished, the prevailing distressesl wishing to get rid of that arrangrintni which had
would be augrocsited....(Htat IT • • been -determined on Parliament with raseect to
Mr. lavri.te in explanation said, that some of the Mink, by a \side wind, because it thteatened
the most respectable names in that i.,,reat city were' to interfere with their speculations and over-
efi to this petition ; and would be ((mod kisch traeliee
as lie trusted .would repel the insinuation at the Mr r•Gatteeeet, said, he lead made no such as-
Citoileinatt,—(Heat, bear, bear ”—The tp.rtioto. • •
lion Geutlemett lied read a letter, and stated Mr. BROUGHAM said, if the Hon. Gentleman
communications, its order most unfairly to, throw bad not Ilse(' words to that effect. be (Mr.
disgrace upon she petitioners. It was a most t4l Brougham) knew ai little of what Isis Hoeour-
watrautable attack on these petitioners, who came able Friend had said, as ilia Honourable Friend
humbly to the Bar of the House, in oz'dcr to state knew of the Petitioners when he spoke of them so
their grievances, as they were privileged to do. harshly. He deplored the rashness which heti led
He thought the subject one of too serious a tie- his Hon. Friend thus to express himself, and was
tare to be treated its such a slighting mintier as sorry his zeal should have carried him away on
the Hon. Gctidernais baddatte.—(Hear, bear !) ; this orcusion, as, in his opinion, it had frequently
Ile hoped the House would not allow itself to re- dime on others when the bullion question came
eeiee any mitavo.rable impressions in coeseqeetice. i behtte the liostse• It should seem that there wae
—(bleae, repeated that be hoped ..a difference of opinion not only in that House,
Go,cinment sc,“ild tither make some propo‘itioit I but in another House, for his linn. Fr teed might
on the stihject of thepetitLin, or that a Commit- have foam! in the list of Petitioners the name of
tee would he appointed to inquire into the topics f 116 own brother. Now, though be did not :mew
alluded to. /hat they 'were united by the sattie fraternity of
Mr. .1 SMITH was sere his Hon. Frieetl near ; political feelings as of blood—
him (Mr. Gieniell) would be sorry for the cies-Mr. GRENFELL said, the Petition was not sign-
, racier he attemteed to give the petition, tvhen lie i eel by 3 brother of his.
knew how notch he had been teishiformed respect-
in;remarked, it. He (-Geld state the truth of what the Hon. I
he, frotrr the- name, judged it to have
Getelentan opp.isite (Mr. Irvine) said as co the I br(liter,
tespeCability oi the sienatores, and the object of ; be" signed by a very near relation, and this
the yeti ;111;:.. beet; sdfficieut to assure him that the
:ioners It bad originated with a men who must .
, !'tot otters were actuated by no impaoper
stood too high in the City to he stipposed to enter
t•c•es, had be !melted at the signatures before he
ttto-
boo speculations of the character described by his
made his speech. It was asked why the Petition
Hen. Friend, and who, if he were to ewer into
(tad not come usenet There was a very good
such, bad ample. means of carrying himself tlootigh
thene lie believed the, a notion of the petition teesoe to be given.- They had waited to see if
did no,
exist in the mind
of
any living man two Parliament would not, without their intervention,
(its lat tore it was ready to present.—(Hear, attempt to relieve the distress which prevailed.
From the nature of the whole system of our com-
bear !)—'Anti viewing the circumstances of hurry
triesce, front the changes produced by a transition
in which it had ben got up, lie thought it sur-
from war t© peace, and from various circum-
priaieg that it wes so numerously and respectably
stances, he saw no prospect of good resulting
signed In the conversation which he bad had ,
whit its original projector no subject could have ! from any inquiry originating with any party but
the Ministers. The case was one that required
been mote remote than that of the bullion ques-
that the Government itself should bend its mind
Lion. It was in coesequetsce of the failure of the
motion of an Hon. Friend (Mr. Bennet) being to the subject. With respect to the plans for
slid-deftly paying off the National Debt, or a uederstood to be owing to his having mixed tip
s
eon-
irrelevant questions with it; that the idea.of theiderable part of it, which he had seen suggested,
present petition was first suggested. He trusted, ; lee thought it right to say, that the adoption of
therefore, that the sufferers in the commercial or-
any one seemed likely to produce the most seri-
ders would be enabled to draw a ray of hope from I °us consequences, and for the. next five or six
years to leave the whole property of the country
the treatment which this petition would receive.—
(Hear, bear !) at the mercy of solicitors, conveyancers, and for-
Mr. RICARDO eontemplated with satisfac- tune•hunters. Of such plans he disapproved al-
tion the very general concordance which the together. He considered the present Petition one
of great importance, and regretted that it could
laws passed last year on the subject of the
currency, seemed to meet with. The state of not have been sooner presented.
the currency, he conceived, to be the cause of the Lord CASTLEREAGH would not prolong the con-
distresses which existed in all the countries of versation, for he was sure that however proper
Europe. if the profits on capital were high'in that the subject of it should hereafter be debated,
another countryegand low in this, it .would have a yet at present to enter on a question so wide, and
natural tendency to make' capital travel out of this 1 that embraced so many topics, could lead to no
country into others— It was a question how far practical advantage.- It might produce a great
bad legislation had been the cause of augmenting practical inconvenience, by adding to the anxiety
this evil. He thought the Corn Laws greatly already felt out of doors ; and by unsettling the
aggravated the state of the money mat ket. They public mind, it might aggravate the evil which it
certainly had a tendency to raise the price of a was their object to <Ulundi') or remove. He per-
most essential necessary of life. That again would fectly agreed with the Honourable and Learned
have the effect of raising the price of labour ; Gentleman that the present petitioners were en-
which, diminiabing the profits of capital, tended titled to the most reipecttul attention. He
directly to aggravate the distresses of the country. should be sorry for the House to separate in
(Hear !)—lt was a system founded on good policy, the belief that the Government had forgot to turn
as he had before said, for a Government to pay its their attention to the subject of the petition,
debts as it went on. That the Government of this On the subject of the arrangement made with re-
country was in debt he was sorry for; but that specs to the Bank, be insisted that every princi-
being the case, he thought the best thing they pie of practical wisdotn and state policy required
could do would be to pay them off. All capitol them tp adhere to the decision which had been
that went from this country, was exonerated, as come"to by. Parliameot, and the safety of the
it were, from the burthens of taxation, which; in country depended on their taking care to do
consequence, fell heavier on that which remained. 1I nothing that might shake that. Nothing would
He should propose to assess all capital that went , tend so notch to injure confidence anti disturb the
out of the country, and make it pay its propor- whole transactions of the country, as suffering it
lion accordingly. He did not agree with the to be a doubt whether this would be maintained
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Irvine) that it would be 'or not. This he wished especially to guard
advisable to extend to the Bank the power of is- t egainst, and. Parliament" having pronounced its
suing bullion in two metals. The more invariable decision on that great question, it was of the
a currency could be made to be, the more perfect greatest importance to know that from that de-
it would be. One metal was, of course, less cision no attempt would be made to depart.
liable to variation than two, To find an invari- Mr. El.etoe corroborated the statement of his
able standard would he impossible; for metals, as Hon. Friend (Mr. J. Smith) with respect to the
well as every other commodity, would always be origin of this Petition. He objected to setting
subject to fluctuation. on foot atrunlimited inquiry, and he agreed that
Mr. FINLAY declared, that if a Committeeshould the responsibility of taking up this subject ought
be appointed to consider of the grievances corn- to be left to the Government of the country.
plained of in the Petition, no Committee Mr: Alderman Wool) haviag heard that a Yeti-
would ever have had a more difficult task.— tint> was preparing on the Bullion question, had
He thought there would be enough to do to exa- made some iuquiries on the subject, and could
mine each question separately. He thought that bear testimony to the sottement of his Hon. and
a most desirable Object was to remove the delu- Learned 'Friend,
.that many of those signing it
sion front the people's minds, that the measures s were friendly to the principles of the Bullion Cum-

tnittee. He was satisfied that the real object of
the Petition was inquiry.
Mr. Alderman HRYGATE bad declined signing
the Petition, on account of its being couched in
such general terms, but he knew it to be signed
by persons of the first respectability in the City
of London. One benefit would result from the
proceeding's of this night. Petitioners would not
in future be afraid of coining to that House, as it
mi 4! t he expected they would, if his Hon. Friend
had not been replied to. Persons would naturally
be unwilling to come forward it they were liable
to be accused of being speculators and over-
traders, and left without defence.

The Petition was then ordered to be pri►►ted.
Mr. SCARLBTT bro►►ght in a Bill to remedy
certain inconveniences in local and exclusive in-
ri7,lietions, which was read a first time, and or-
dered to be read a second time on the 15th of
February.

'1 he CHANCRLLOR of the EXCHEIZURit presented
Accounts of the Ditties paid on Flops, in the last
year.—Ordered to lie on the table.—Adjourned
till Thursday.