The Sun.
London, England, 1817-05-09 00:00:00

POOR LAWS.

The Earl of Li veftroot give notice for to-mor-
row of Irk intention to move:for a Committee on
,the Poor LiMs.
IRELAND.
The Kiirl,or Diitotiaifmoim, on the subject of
the Catholic Petitions, observed, that it had been
his intention, acenrcling to the notice heliad.given
in the last Session, to bring forward the question:
early in the present Session, and lie found that
the delay had excited the attention of a Noble
friend of his, who was naturally anxious that the
question should be ernly dkctisJed, There was,
however, a icatioll for the delay which he trusted
would be considered perfectly satisfactory. The
winter had been ocenPied by the Catholics in endea-
vonring tOprodece•conciliation amongst their own
,body, and also in devising the means by. which they
could best conciliate the two Houses of P,arliament,
and produce a favourable disposition towards their
Claims. With such objects to view, it would have
beol highly injudicious in him, [.y bringing on a
.inemature di3cussion,lto interfere with the project-
rd
ecetunplishment of their views, and this pet'
'baps, to deprive the Catholic body of all the ad-
vantage-they expected to derive front then?. That
Alley bad, succeeded in producing one Opiiii'on
aniongst their own hotly, he was riot prepared to..
state, but had they iittainect the important end of
'projecting an arrangement which would lie thowght
set at rest all objections to their Claims. It was
not non, the moment to go into the particulars of
the expedient they proposed, but its object was to
do' away all the objections flat arose on the
ground of foreign influence, making the no
-
'lnitiation to the Catholic Ecclesiastical Beneficies
entirely national, and rendeting it altogethcr a
-purely strict domestic nomination. This they had
agreed upon, anti to this they were ready to ac-
cede, in such manner as ParliaMent in its wisdom
:should deem it advisable to einiet in the provisions
.of the Bill, and they had sent over two most re-,
spectable Members,, of the Clerical Body to an-
swer such questions upon the subject as, that
or the other Houser of Parliament should '.'teem
it 'advisable to ask. The question, therefore,
now stood upon wholly stew grounds 'to those
on which it. formerly rested. The formidable
objection of foreign influence no longer attach-
ed, and he could not conceive any objection that.
'could not
.he most adequately met by the pro-
posed scheme of domestic nomination, 'to which,
.there was no doubt, the Bead of the Catholic
Church would accede, Ile assured their Leath
ships that this measure now called for was most
essential to the good government of Ireland, mid
shut there were many points with regard to-the
Catholics that required amelioration. 'Hie re-
4axing law, for lestrurce, as it was called, was
frequently not carried into effect. Though, Ca—
tholies were admitted upon :Grand .lurk?, yet • in
tire metropoLs county, that of Dublin, there were
Imlay Gentlemen as respectable, and pOSSCUSCII of
as much property its any oilier& in the county, who
were not summoned upon the Grand .1 to y. An-
other circumstance which he wished to notiCe•was
one that oceorred in the metropolis itself, at a
convivial meeting that took place there. At some
of these oiectings it was not the practice to pass
resolutions, r but to give them in the stroll e of
toasts, et the meeting he :Alluded to, consising of
highly respectable Gentlemen, west Was given
which he was almost 118119OCCI to repeat, betray-
ing, as it did, a determined hostility ro the CA-
tholits„ and that toest. at slime during the cir-
culation Of the,.bottle, when men's hearts were
()rued, and when they tnight he supposed to
speak their real sentiments. The toast he alluded
to was this---c' The Pope in the pillory, the pil-
lewy in hell,. anti pelted with Priests by the
Ile felt ashamed of his country when
he repeated this TO4iST, and reflected that, k was
given in the metropoli4, the seat of the (io-
vernment, anti once of the,Parliament of Ireland:—
That that Parliament Was got rid of he sincerely
'rejoicer% he lent a helping ham) to the measure,
and was highly satiified that a hotly, which hewn!.
,sidered as merely an instrument of correption, of
oligarchy and persecution, no longer existed. In
saying what he had, be did not mean totbrow the
, slight est imputation it pun the Government of ire-
The highly tespectuble individual at the
head of that Government adminiAtered it in a way
rti iCh was the' beet adapted. to the situation, of the
country toltis conduct, he (Lord Donough more),
I.l,lllrepeatedly borne, testimony,. and tie now agaiu
took the oppost,mity of giving that praise,to the
condoct of the Noble Lord:at the heed of the IriAl
:ci!werninent, which be thought it eminently de-
-served. With regard more immediately to the
question upon the CatholiochOrns, he had seen,
with some surprise, m
a steteent purporting to have
been made, he could not say where, by a
,It4ht
Ileogierahle Gentlemen., intimately connected with
the 11.4411 t Reverend Bench opposite, in which it
was athinied that the circumstances which had
taken place, had Placed the PllOlOllOl in a worse
traiior with regard to their claims than before.
'Upon what. argument this statement coeldlreee
been founded be was utterly at loss to imagine.
That the Catholic Clergy would retract
.frotu ithe
project of domestic nomination.. which, they now
proposed, there was not. the slightest reason
for believing. ft was true shut its 11300theycanie
to, a resolution that they, could -not agree,to-any
change in the diseipline: of. the Church, but that
resolution wes adopt,ed, u4ldel7 circtunstnnces of
irritation with: regatd ter Life: Veto, w Ilia had no
ovti,keitt ion whatever to the ti
eirccasrances nuder
t,klts-ls they notv eiote,rt-trwaro,; The Clergy had
'now pledged thetnetel,ves. definitively on the subject,
of tome, ie nominabion. Offered .to
6itnent in the spirie of conciliation,, as-an effectual

,-

rilCatt"4 of obviating un Objecti.n nn the gremmi
foreign influence, and be could not conceive that
any Plansible objection remained.. There %vas also
on the aide of the Carly Ones this additional claim,
that there was nothing inthimMatory in their Pro-
ceedings. lie had regretted, as much as any man,
the intemperance of some of their proceedings,
and he had hitiVidf at times, when speaking upon
the subjeat, Utlercd eXpteSsioni Which' art erwqrd§

he was most anxious to recall. All this, bow-
ever, was now at an end, and there was nothing
but a conciliatory spirit displayed. The petitions
he had to present were, one trop the general body
of the Catholics of Ireland, and the other from
the Catholics of the County and City of Waterford.
There were two other petitions presented last Ses-
situ), one front the Catholics who assembled at
Lord Trirublestown's, consisting of the Catholic
Veers and a number of most respectable Gentle-
men, and the other from the Catholic' Clergy. On'
the part °leach of these bodies he had heen applied
to, for the purpose of again reclining to. these
Petitions, with the view of endeavouring to attain
the objeet of them, which was, in fact, peti-
tioning again. With regard to a notice of the
discussion on the subject, he did not feel himself
warranted in giving one. It was matter of noto-
riety, that. the question was to be brought on in
another place on a very early day, and he (Lord
Donoughmore), as well as the Catholics, enter-
tained the best founded hopes that their claims
would there be conceded, Aid that the measure
would come op to their Lot dships in the shape of
a Bill front thc other. House. :Sllotild he he dis-
appointed in this expectation, it was his intention
to give notice, on an early/7day, .-for bringing on
the discussion.

•
'l'l►e 1%‘,6 petitions presented by his LOrdship
were read, and ordered td lie upon the table.
, The Earl of DA R.tiILEV expressed his satisfaction
at the expectation cutertitioed. of the success of
the Catlidlic Claims, and trusted it would be rea-
lised. lie certainly did express his regret at the
delay, which I►ad taken place in presenting the
Catholic petition ; but he stated, at the same
time,
.that he had no doubt the Noble Earl hail a
good reason for it. Tl►e Noble tai•i had tooholbt-
edly now stated a good reasnu for the delay, Omagh
he (Lord Darnley) still could not' help regretting
that the cnestion had not been brotglit'.on earlier.
Ile, however, would give it all his support, ancl,
he mired it would be attended with all the success
to VC WO it was so eminently edtitled.
Lord Ittig.voN asked whether the • Noble 17..arl
could state what early day case the Pill the
Noble 'Earl expected did nit come up from the
other House) it was proposed to bring on the
discussion?

The Earl of DONOVGII/661111 said, if the Rill
did not, as he had reason to expect, come- up
from the other House, lie proposed to bring ors,
the discussion on Fridity se'nnight.
Earl GuRY wished for a ti►,ancial Paper respect•
ing Ireland, which the .Ettrl of Lirerpool said he
woald inquire about.

Afliour-iicil till to=morrow (this day).

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

• USURY LAWS.
•
:1 Jr. ONSLOW brought in hi 9 T3ilf.rn, repeal the
Laws regoiating the Rate of Interest, which way rend a first
time, and ordered.to be read. a second time to-morrow t:'n•
uieltt and to be printed.
COLLIERY LABOURERS' BILL. ! -
On the tuOtion -oi Mr. \VEUIIE, the House went into a
Counuittee 041 the Colliery Labourers' Bill. A long conver-
in which Mr. Curwen, Mr. Littleton, Mr.
Wrottesley, ColonetWood, Mr. AbercroMby, and Mr. Webber
participae4 ; when the ItspOrt was brought up, nod ordered
to ti taken into farther consideration on .Nlooday next.

sTEAM;.BOATS.-
ilattyzy rose, in pursuance of his: otice,
to Move for the appointment of a Sett:et Com-
mittee to inquire into the causes which led to the
explnsioir of the engine belonging to the Norwich
and Yarmouth Steam•boat, to ascertain the best
means of presenting shnitar accidents for the fn.
tore, and to report the result of their investiga-
tions to the Ilemse. :The Lion. Member was der
cidedly. of opinion,, that the explosion arose "frolu
great neglect in the structure of the engine; which.
was made of.east-iron mixed with other metal.----
in all the boats in which no Accident had happen—
ed the hollers were matle.of wrought 'iron.
was necessary however, ,as the subject was of ex-
treme importaticeto the lives of his Majesty'ssub,,
jeets, and Steam-boats were of general eonve7
oietwe, that able engineers should. be exaMined,
inorder that thorecptrence of sodreadful an at-
cident as had happened to the Norwich packet
bc,pterented. Lie moved, therefore, that
a Select Cinutattee should be appointed for those
purposes.

Cuttwaß said, it was JlMlally impossible
that such an accident could have happened except
from a gross neglect its the'rsufety-valve.
could ttstt believe it was occa?.ioned by.the metal
of' which the, boiler was made, since it might have
equally
.happenedi whatever the boiler wae can.
posed of..
Mr. W. Smrro observed, that the objectof the
COmnattee was to ascertain in what miiiik34er these
boats coUld belt made secure, under any circniA7
stances whate*cr, in order thacthe public cnnfi-
deuce might be thereby.restored. The able en-
gineers 'whom, the Committee would have brought
before them Were hest tillalified to explain the
cantles, and' to devise the utostettectual means. of
prprenting, their recurrence.
Ur. -"filowsp-r.consiOred the subject of very
great importance, and:thought the public were
touch, indebted to the lion. Member tor.bringing
itfor ward in this tianuer.

The motion nosy then agreed to, ancl the Caul
IllitteC WAS ArpOint.cit.

MILATAKY PITNISIIM ENT..
Sir P. Butt 4.T' tecing_thellon, and Learned
Cle'ittle'ttian the Jiidge Advocate, 0t hisTlatte,.:Tose
%o call, his attention to a circiiinstAttice of.consider-
able inipoi tante, :more part ictilarly. after the opi.
Trion% I.7hich be believed he was correct, in saying
the Ilion. and Leacned ui had delivered
Lt ii year 141 that House on the •subject of military
flOgging., k was. stated, in a paper.which he then
hold, in his hand, that a melancholy iostance of
the consequence of floggoing soldieps had lately
Occurred at Carlisle, when .a private of the 13th
regiment of light dragoons having,lieen flgggeil
once and 'received as many lashes as he could
bear, was ordered to be brought out at a future

~z;~~


.LyTo receive the rernainderof Lis sentence. lo the
interval, however, the. unhappy mai), alarmed by
the recollection of his former stafetings,
nated his existence. This melancholy event, said
the Hon. Baronet, was the more to be lamented,
and deserved the more serious investigation, as
theOnin's only offence was, that lie hail married a
young woman without the consent of his Officers.
--(Hear, licar.)—ft was said, that his character
was exceedingty good ; that he had served his
country in many battles, in Portugal,,S„paiu, and
France; and that he was highly respected in
his regiment. The subject to which the Ho-
nourable Baronet Wished to call the attention
of the Learned Gentleman was, whether he did
not say it was illegal to bring out man to be
flogged a second time, when he could not bear
the whole of his punishment the first time.
11y. 'MA Nr: Res SUTTON said, that' he' did. not
know of the existence of any such, ease; land did,
not think it could have Occurred. If the Hon.-
Baronet had no otherinformation than this noes
gaper, he did not believe it. His opinhin respect-
ing military flogging-was certainly the same as lie•
had before stated ; and, in fact, it bad been
'adopted by the Commander-iii-Chief in practice,
and was knotvu to he his orders. Ile could only
repeatoherefore, that he entertained very consi-
derable (Joao as to the statement contained in
that paper ; for if it had ,been true, it was most
likely that lie should have heard of
-it. After what
had passed, however, he would make it his duty
to inquire, if the Hon. Baronet would furnish him
with the name of the individual .anti the dates of.
his punishment.—(Hear !)
Sir V. lluane'rr was perfectly satisfied with this
explann'tion. Ile certainly had no oilier infor-
mation than what .this paper contained. The
name of the individual was not mentioned, but
merely that he was a private of thel3th Light
Dragoons. The statement was made in a weekly
paper about 10 days ligo. He had thought, how,
ever, that a regular return was made. on these
matters; and, .therefOre, that the Honourable
stud Learned Gentleman would' have been 'prepared
to speak upon it, from his official information.
Air, MANNERS SUTTON replied, that the returns
were math!, but not in his office. If,. however,
Such a case had been known to any office what-
ever, it was not likely that he' should not IlaCe
heard of it.. He had r.O doubt it would turn out
,to lie a perfect libel on those Wha were accused
of having inflicted We-punishment : and be re-
gretted that it. had been brought before the public
on such slight authority, and before any regular
investigation could lie made.,

WIC the conversation dropped. .
WRECK OF TM'. TAY.
Mr.l.lmouonAst asked whether Government had
received any communication respecting the out-
rage committed by some Spaniards Oft the wt.eck
of the Tay ; and whether the Spanish Govern-
ment had come forward on the occasion.
..Lord CASTLEREAGH wished the. lion. Gentle-
man to put the question in ,the shape of a motion.
Mr. BEIM/011AM then replied, that he should
to.ntorrow move for the mess relating to the
transaction'.

Mr. Curtwma presented a petition from the pa-
rish 4)1 St. Nicholas, Deptford, touching the poor-
rates.

CLERGY CONSOLIDATION BILL.

`Lord ESSINGTON wished to know whether it
was intended to press the second rending of this
Bill to.morrow, when the important business be-
fore the House would allow no time to he allotied
to it ?

Mr. MANNERS SUTTON said, that as there could
be no objection to the principle of the Bill, there
could be no question as to the propriety of for-
Warding the Bill to IA ComAttee, When its clauses
might be discussed, or amendments proposed.
X.,ord EAIIINQTON obihcted to the pressing for-
ward the Bill. He had rather see it rejected than
passed in its present state, though he did. not go
sq far'as to disapprove of the principle.
Mr., M. Suiropi :said, though he 4aw no reason
to.. postpone the second reading of the Bill, yet it,
on collecting the sense of Members on the sub-
ject, there seemed a wish for further delay, he
should not pressit.'