The Sun.
London, England, 1819-03-25 00:00:00

LONDON CLERGY.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM called the attention of the
House to the situation of the Clergy of fifty of
the Parishes in the City of London. The Peti-
tion which they had presented to the House, and
'Adel) had been referred to a Select Committee,
had been reported on by that Committee, and in
that report it was said the allegations in the Pe-
tition had not been proved. In giving this opi-
nion, he considered the Committee had travelled
out of the course which they ought to have par-
sued. The Petitioners had abstained from com-
ing to that House for relief till their stipends be-
came so inadequate to their maintenance, that
they could no longer avoid making that appeal
which they had made. I i thirty out of the fifty
patishes the Petitioners performed the duty in
person. In twenty-six parishes there were no
Parsonage Houses provided, and in consequence
they were ohl;ged to pay in rent and taxes a seem
fully equal to the stipend which they received
from the parishes to which they belonged. Some
of the first ecclesiastical characters in the
country were in this situation. By a de-
cree specified in / the thirty-seventh of Heni '
the Eighth, it had been provided, that they
stimal he entitled to claim 2s. 9d. in the pound
atter the lst day of March, In the year 1345, on
the rental of the City, in lieu of tithes. They,
however, made no claim for any particular sum,
but threw themselves on the liberality of Parlia-
ment. One of the Members for the City of Lon-
doll had persuaded a majority of the Committee
up stairs, that iu point of fact there had been no
such decree. He (Sir J. Graham) however,
wonid he content ao rest his case on this, that the
decree would be found in the statute book. He
might. add; that in every year, he might say in
every term, the decree had been acknowlOced in
the prOCeedings which had onfortunately taken
ialaee'.-. In a hundred case§ the decree had been
recognised, and its force bad never been disputed
Fie had even seen a paper signed
4.4.,M.irthew Wood," connected a ith an inquitv
made on this subject, which admit:ed soca a de-
(..rac to exist. Ater this, he t"as a$(01) 'Shed that
hi; y Isu;in st)ould say the allegatiot,s of the Petition
had not be,n made out. lie Crusted t!le House
would permit him to being in a Bill to make for

rilre retitionert such an ahtinate provision and
fair compensation as they had aright to claim.—
. It was said that some of them were o:herwise
provided for, but he could state that some of them
had very little indeed but what they had received
from their several parishes. He therefore, not-
withstandirig the report which had been made,
would move for leave to bring in a Bill, to amend
an Act made in the reign of his present Majesty,
for relieving certain Incumbents of Livings in the
City of London. -
Mr. HARVEY contended, the decree which bad
been alluded to by the Hon. Baronet had never
been enrolled in the High Court of Chancery.—
That decree, if enrolled on or before the first day
of March, in the year 1545, was thenceforward
and for ever to have the force of law ; but nut
having heap so enrolled, it was of course void,
and of no effect. IVhen the petitioners were
called upon to prove that the decree in question
bad been enrolled, what did they do ? Why, they
produced the Statute of Henry VIII. which had
the decree chronicled at the foot of it, and coo-
tended, that because it was there, it had the full
force of law, thoogh the conditions on which it
had been ,issued had never been satisfied. He
was of opiniou that the petitioners were endea-
vouring by slow, but sure degrees, to accomplish
designs which they dared not to unfold at once,
as they knew the rapacity whirl,was their cha-
racteristic would not fail to cause the House to
repel them with indignation if they were folly
nown. Ile was convinced, that till they could
get possession of one-sixth (which the two root
nine-pence mentioned in the decree would amount
to), they would never cease coining to Parliament
for relief. The Honourable Baronet had ende.a-
voured to awaken the sympathy of the House fur
these Giortlernen, but he (Mr. Harvey) stated
almost all of them to have 4001. per annum, and
some had 6001. or more. Above 20 were plura-
lists, and if they had no residences in.tke City, it
was because they were the best calculators in it,
and preferred letting their houses for the sake of
the pi:ofit that might thus be obtained. If the
Clef gy of the City had come forward to complain
that the provision made for them in 1804 was not
sufficient for their maintenance, leaving the 37th
of Henry VIII. out of the question, he should not
so stroirg:y !iave objected to the proceeding, but
they did not dare to come to the House on such
grounds. Not one of them dared to call on the
House to take his individual case into consideta-
tion. The value they themselves attached to their
own lahours, might be collected from the sums
which they paid to the Ciliates who officiated for
therm, and who received 501. 601. or 701. per
annum from those who were ittothe yearly receipt
of 10001., 15001., or 20001. He thought the
petitioners showed themselves unmindful of their
duty, and of the sacred character which they
ought to preserve, in-corning to Parliatneut so re-
peatedly to get their emoluments enhanced.—To
him it appeared too much that the Chairman of a
Committee,' at the head of a maJority,of three,
should now come to the House to impeach the de-
cision deliberately come to in tl Committee that
had been numerously attended.
Mr. DENT wished to know if the course taken
by the Hon. 'Baronet was that which peas must
conformable to the forms of the House. He
would ask if the better way would not he to refer
the petitions back again to the Committee )

• The SPEAK ER did nor know of a precedent for
such a Report as had been made by the Com.
-mittee, and consequently he could know. of
no precedent for that course of proceeding which
had been founded on. that Report. The [louse
well knew; that by the standing orders of the
House no petition for a Private Bill could be re-
ceived till it hail been referred to a Select Com-
mittee, which Committee was to report whether
or not-the standina orders had been complied
with, and the matter of the petitions. In the
present case there was no standing order to be
complied with, and the Committee had of course
only'to report this, and go -on and report the
matter of the petition. He had only to repeat,
that as he knew of no other instance in which such
a Report as the House had now before them had
been made, so he could know of none in which a
motion like that of the Hollow able Baronet had
been offered under such circumstances. It was
clear that they bad no precedents to guide them.
.On au unsatisfactory Report being made, it had
'sometimes been referred back to the Committee,
and this might be done in the present case.
Mr. WROTTESLEY said, as there were no pre-
cedents to guide them, the House could decide on
the motion as they might think proper ; but he
hoped the case of the petitioners would be suf-
fered to come fairly before them. He trusted this
would not be refused, as lie, for one, was of
opinion that the Committee had come to a wrung
and most improper conclusion.

Sir W. de CRUPIGNY spoke, but was inaudible
in the Gallery.
Mr. Alderman IVooD remarked, the Honour-
able Baronet bad represented hint to have signed
a paper, in which that decree was acknowledged
which he had denied to exist. It the Honour-
able Baronet had read through the paper to which
he had referred, he would have seen that it was
not exactly what l►e had supposed it to be. No
evidence had been given in opposition to that
furnished by the Petitioners. It was the common
sense of the Committee alone that had decided
against them. To show in what a melancholy
situation some of the Petitioners were placed, he
would state the amount of some of the livings :
That of Allhallows gave the.inctinthent 4911. per,
annum; 'St. Peter's, C 61.111611, produced 6321. ;
St. Vedast Foster gal.* 6001. ; and lie read over a
list of .others, the emoluments of which varied
from 3761. to 600!. In almost every parish a
curate was engaged to perform the duty for a
salary of GUI. or 701, per annum. He hoped no
addition, on account of the Petitioners, would be
made to the burdens of tl►e already over-taxed
citizens of Loudon:

Sir \V. CUgTIS believed the worthy Alderman
who had last spOken had been misinformed in
some instaoces. lie had stated the Livin-g of St.
Peter's,' Cornhill, ro 'be worch 6321. He had
ielson to believe it did not produce more titan
3001:

64PPS Said, the question before the House
was, whether the stipetid which had beet' Given

to the Clergy of London morE thArl tentury ttgo
was sufficient for them now ? Lie thought they
had a fair claim. to have their case considered, and
was sorry they had been treated with so Much se-
verity in the course of the present debate.

Sir T. BARING stated, the Curate of St. Ann's
and St. Andrew's Holborn, had but between
2001. and 3001. per annum, though he bad to at-
tend to a population of 6,000 souls. He com-
plained of the charge of rapacity which had been
made against the Clergy. It bad been. siid they
let out their houses. for profit. lie believed there
was not one of the individuals who had signed
the Petition presented to the House who would
not be ashamed of such conduct.

Mr. C. W. WYNN knew one of the petitioners,
who, though not resident in his parish, performed
not merely the Sunday duty, but all the duty that
was to be performed in it. He thought, con-
sistently with the rules of the House, a Bill might
he brought in on the Report of the Committee.
It tivould then be for the House to enter into the
metits of the question. He should vote for the
motion.
Mr. 4lderinan \VooD explained.

Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN commt.nted with se-
verity on the conduct of some of the Petitioners.
If they were not s!efficiently provided for, ,they
night fist of all to have come forward and stated
this to their parishioners, and afterwards, if it
bad been necessary, they could have come to that
House. Bun, instead of acting thus, they, at
the instigation of one roan, all combined toge-
ther, with the exception of fifteen or sixteen ho-
nest men—(Loud disapprobatioo)—who were
ashamed to sign the petition, to make the Legis-
lature confitm the dormant claim founded on the
decree of Henry VIII. That decree had never
been enrolled, and when it was imended to give
the Clergy two shillings and nine-pence on the
rental, it was to be remembered that they were
charged with the maintenance of the poor, and
the repairs of the churches. lo the Act of the
22d of Charles 11. the decree of Henry VIII. had
not been recognized, and it had certainly never
been enrolled in the High Court of Chancery.--
Jo 1804 a large increase of income bad been given
to the Clergy, though not on that decree. Then
the 'interference of Parliament was. claimed on
account of the pressure of the Property Tax.--7
Now that was removed, and he should be glad to
hear what had occurred since 1304 to make a
further augmentation of their emoluments neces-
sary. Ile concluded by defending the ReFort of
the Committee.

Mr. PEEL ,called upon the House to look at the
monstrous consequences that must follow, if the
decision of a Committee up stairs were to be suf-
fered to preclude the House from taking into its
consideration a case once referred to such a Com-
mittee. Ile directed their attention to the manner
in which Select Committees were usually con-
stituted ;—he con:idered the late Committee to
have exceeded its powers ; and insisted, that
the decision it had come to ought not 4o prevent
the House from inquiring into the merits of the
ease. •

WILBERFORCS bad always tbooglit a COM-
illitZee tip stairs like a Grand Jury, before which
one party submitted its proofs without being con-
fronted by'the other. When it should be-
fore the Uouse, that would be the time for en-
tering into the general merits of the question. He
wished a more ample provision to be made for the
Clergy. By not doing so, they justified those
pluralities of which they were all apt to complain.
They ought to enable the Clergyman to live on
something like a footing of equality with his
neighbours ; and be could not approve of the con-
duct of those who, always professing great atrec.
tion for the Church, when brought to the test,
acted as it the Clergyman ought to be, confined to
a miserable pittance, barely enough to supply the
wants of nature.

Mr. PLUNKETT was of opinion that it would
have been better to move that the Report should
be sent back to the Committee, than to move, as
the Hon. Baronet bad done, for leave to bring in.
a Bill. There could be only one feeling in the
House on the propriety. of attending to any
Cairns made on the part of the Clergy, and it
they found themselves compelled to retuse what
they desired, he was sure they would do so wiqt
much pain. If the Committee had gone beyond
their powers, the Report should go back to them,
but it now, on their report that the allegations of
the Petition were not proved, a Bill were to be
it introduced, would seem that the Committee was
of no use, and that, be the result of theicifro-
ceedings what it might, the course to be pursued
in the House was the same, as, it they had report-
ed that the allegations were. proved, a Bill would
have been brought in.
The SPEAKER re-stated what he had formerly
said on the peculiarity of the present case. He
remarked the House used different terms in form-
ing its Committees, and when their opinions were
wanted, this was stated in the first instance.—
The opinion that the allegations of the petition
were not proved was certainly a statement which
,they were not authorized to make. The Standing
Orders of the House directed them in such cases
to report the matter of the petition, and precluded
them from hearing the oimposite side. Under such
circumstances it would be monstrous to require
them to give an opinion. The course he had de-
scribed was that which, with this single excep-
tion, had been uniformly pursued. Consistently
with time forms of the House, leave might be given
to bring in a Bill on the present ocsysion. And
by adopting this mode of conduct to!, won'tl deal
fairly with the Report, hydiffering from the Com-
mittee. Another way would be to return the
Report to the Committee ; and a third would he
ro disagree with the -Report. In none of dieser
cases, as it appeared to him, would the forms of
the House be violated ; but it was of great im-
portance to the House how they formed their
Committees, and that no opinion should be given
where this was not directed.

Mr. WYNN thought ►he best way of getting
rid of the leport, would be to disagree to it at
once, and I hen give leave to bring in the Bill.
The SPRAKER observed, that giving leave to
bring in the Bill would alone be disagreeing to
►he Report, and would probably be the best
course,

Air, BRAND suggested that it 'night be better to

tesoive that 1116 Standing Orders ha:. t%c.t be:l
compli,!d with.
Tlte .SpqAxert said, there were lo this case.d
Standin; Orders to he complitd v. hit.
Leave was then giver to brin,g in the Bill. r.ll
Mr. CRoKuu moved for leave to bring in a Di
to rpgidate the vrei4ms payable by ij\joer
for Specie,marl Jewels carried by Ships o'
Sir JOSEPH YoRKe, and another Mena): r w"se
name could not be learned, said a few Words, al.,
purport of which could not be collected.
Mr. Ceoz.Ea said, much evil mig
clandestine agreements bttwecn Admirals and
Captains, relative to freights.
Leave was given to bring in the 13:11.—it W 23
then brought iiti, read a first, and ordered to,
b 6
read a second ;hue on Friday. 11,t mite froril,

•
Mr. G. LAMB said, be wi,l,cd to ask a question
on a subject relative to which several rumours werg
:liiroad. "ished to know whetherii was the
I"testri"o of his Nl.jcsty's Ministers to proll°s6
any additional Dots? on Malt ?_ • (1,
The CHANcELLoa thi! E3cEIPQUSK rePlie t
that it was not the intention cif Governineol a
present to propos,.: any additional dutY (p)) 60
title. He said this resrrving himself the rig 'I
of bringing forward, at any forare tittle, sue

measures as might he tilougSlr necessary.

ARMY ESTIMATES.
Lord PALMERSTWN gave notice, that on Friaol
he intended to propose a Vote on account of 1114
Estimates for the Army. Hamer:
The Order of the Day for reporting e °,„ ,as
of Metnhrrs absent at the Ballot of yesfer"°:
taken into consideration, and the Del"lie"
dere,' to alttend.to•morrow.
The (louse resolyrd itself into a Cown'ittee
ott
the Excise Lict.nces.—lleport to-murrow.

GAE LAWS.
On the motion torM a Cutninittee on the G 31116
Laws' Amendment Bid,
to. h 0 Couto
Mr. BaANI) said, he only meant in (0
mittee to move some verbAl AmeDdru cots, `int.!
have the Bill printed. 'flie twure sageslie "l
7.
tended to postpone till atter the Easter recess.
_se
id r. F. DOUGLAS Said, he approved 4,f the coub`-tic
of proceeding adopted. by his lion.. Friend, to
‘vished it to be understood that his uhieclitn”
the Bill remained unchanged. , Sir .1.;
/V ter a few words troth Mr. 13"°''''1 the
Shelley, Mr. Curwen, and Lord li')w—e,,rl'lll),
Bill was committed, and the Renor:br°ll;l'e r3Lb
and ordered to be further conslifered °n
onti
The innkeepers' Rates' Bill was read n lee
time, end ordered to be committed to-19°"‘v.
AojournA.

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March •-, c, . . 1 ocOes
**- ti 43 42 47 :37 c:9.94 Fair C'l4
7 09 40 4G 37 st II Cldy* Do.
Fair
8 39 40 45 :s7 .14 Fair
9 3) 3 45 36 .14 DO. 1)•••.
10 40 43 45 40 .13
Cloud? C; wolf
11 43 44 45 43 .10 Do. 1/u.
12 43 j 4749 44 .18 Do. Do.
* A little Drizzling
_______.-
cOtfaSEOFIXCHANGE, TUESDAY, .%1A IV 11
t. *-. • _
k.
. . '. •

fOUR.SE OF EXCH.
Tugs nA Y
A insteidam
11 A
Ditto, lit Sight
Rotterdam
tiamburgh . •
Altona - oy.
Paris, 3 Day's sight 93 80
Ditto
•
Bourdeaux, ditto
Fi anti toi ton the Main
fs
Madrid
Cadiz
Billioa
yet iUN• •
Gibraltar
Barcelona
Leghorn
Genoa... 4i-Venice, . ... Li v•
.wMalta...
Palermo P
Lisbon
5E.1
Oporto
Rio Janeiro ......... .
......... 61
Dublin. 12. C0r1i..... 12 per Cent.
Agio of t Banli on Holland.... 2 per Cent.
BULLION. 0 f 3 per °%*
11:4,188;50 .".cctirc

Portncal Gold, in Coin
New Douleloons
Silver, in Bars
............ 0

CO M. MARKET, MARCH 24*
price.' 6d.
Ships at Market. Ships 3old.
6d• to 415.
694 ....... ...295.
7 Sunderland 5
......... 31s. 3,1. to
_

IV AR RI El). bssador !tt
On the 23d of February last, at the English Ant`ajar
at Paris, Monsieur le Comte Augusta de Valtnef,
the Lanciers of the Garde Royale, to Miss Po‘v
i" ot)::.'countir
of the late Richard Power, Esq. Claslitoore, a„,l
of Waterford, many years Member for that
countrt,i.b, 0
to Richard Power, Esq. Ali:other for said 41"9tY.,einise AleA%
ysi.fa, acted
s, r 'Ili:.
d y,u rlietil,JuNacit,lice
c ieli'tor
r:1 niaeurits
tn
t
Bride's-maid. His Grace gave a taagtal"
children's Lill on the occasion.

DIED. ~. Nand
On the 20th inst. at his house at St. Peter .9
gistrate of thof
Jersey, SirJOhn Du:wires:l, Kut. late Chief IVIa
said Island, in the 70th year of his age.' -r terraC"
Ou the 22d inst. aged 66, at his house, I'Ve
Islington, I-I. W. Mortimer. Esc!

PROVINCIAL BIRTHS, NI ARRIAGES, A

Sir A:: I:Le 7f
lulu, lately, the Lady cidl °f
.s,s,...aelr
ht oanr
t, Cornwall,adnal.4ltoset;r.the I i Ist. the
, N. of s
•i'•
- -
of Captain 1%;

, Ettdoclt, Junes,
Esq., Bangor. Lately, at
Late Th °alai 'S:talwlas' 'Cs(l.
nick,lit ihctti, third dru~htrr of the
Jz,
John Bpup~
At ,Ir,t,iti.styoot:l,ngSeerot,l)afttnnoTthoeti
til,t;
maid
en? Lo ,
das, eldest daughter of tiv, flight Honourable Lord Chit'
Baron.

nit:D.
Lately, at nartley, near Bath, Robert, eldest son of an'
bets wi:ittingtou, Esq.
Lately, at Bath, Eliza, eldest datt.-diter of the Reverent'
el-
F. Gardiner, A. M. -Rector of Coombhay, and Vicar of
low, in the county of Somerset' of
n Lately, Mrs. Rose, relict of the late J. C. Rose, Esti'
,I.Li'iti;),l:ly,
,in Doverstiret, Bristol, that relic". the 18"
Captaili 1 howas Wil;iarns.
____...-
••- - -- - •----i t•
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