The Sun.
London, England, 1845-08-01 00:00:00

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ealeulated to bring about the evils which thf.sy were i charges against the New Zealand Company when those
trying to suppress. It appeared cslcuilated to excite who represented that important body were absent from
resentment and hostility towards this country. He could 1 the House. If the Government gave facilit a to the
net see one single good purpose that it w ;ulil sfreet. It ' exchange of the comusedities of that colony with this
e u
appeared to bnnecessary for the puri'ose of bringing country great good could not fail to accrue to both.
about a co-operation of the Brazilian Geverernent, because I Mr. PACKINGTON drew the attention of the
they had measures already in progress w I
Frith regard to House to the religious state of the colony, and read an
the slave trade, and they should see whit effect they extract from a statement of a Mr. Latrobe, the presi-
may hare. That afforded another reason why, even if dent, which stated that the greatest irreligion prevailed
they had public law ontheir side, they should ab- amongst the population of the colony—that they were
stain from this measure as a measure of bad policy ; like heathens. The Hon. Gentleman read other state;
and he could not but once more enter his protest against ments, one from the bishop, which went to show that
it; and absolve himself from any share whatever in the there was a great deficiency of churches, and that con-
responsibility of this measure. Ile b..ggecl now to make sequently no proper provision was made for the religious
the inquiries of which he gave notice. He wished to instruction of the inhabitants.. He would, therefore, .
know whether the Brazilians in this country had addressed press upon her Majesty's Government the necessity of
to her Majesty's Government any remonstrance cr corn- turning their attention to the subject, but more par-
munication relative to this Bill. It such a communica- titularly to the Act relating to the appropriation of the
tion had been received by the Government, he thought funds arising from sales, one-half of which was at the
that the House was entitled to a. e the communica- disposal of the Crown, and nut be applied to the objects
tion, and that they should be laid before Parliament. he advocated.
He thought that as they were called upon to share in Mr. HOPE said that the Hon. Member for Lambeth
the responsibility of the Executive, the Executive Go- had not shown his usual practical good sense upon this
vernment should place the House in the same position subject. If the main object of the Bill had been to alter
in which they stood themselves- in the position 'that the law for leasing lands, the observations of the Hon.,
they should have a full opportunity of judging both Member would have been correct, but it was not. The
of the law and the policy of this measure. He main object of the Bill we, to provide employment for
would ask him, then, if a remonstrance had been re- the redundant population, There were 3.000 labourers,
ceived, and if it had, whether he could lay it on the table and probably there might nee, be 6,000 who were to
of the House. If it had been received why should they not be employed in irrigating tas land, and in other ways,
delay this measure till they had printed this remon- for the general unpr,)vemeat ..f the district ; and he
atrance ? The report was brought up on Monday last really thought that after this c untry had spent so much
and the matter was postponed till this day, and he was in supporting these labourers, it was entitled to the
not chargeable with that delay. He did think that they benefits to be derived from it, and he thought this object
should not be judging properly, and that they should could not be attained by the admission of Australian
not be doing what was required, if they acted without
the fullest information. He would conclude by request-
ing her Majesty's Government to inform them whether
,they had received that information.
Sir R. PEEL said that he was much obliged to the
Hon. Gentleman for the question which he proposed.
He postponed the Bill in order to have a full oppor-
tunity of considering some suggestions that had been
made. He could assure the Hon. Gentleman that he had
again considered this subject, and he had authority in
stating, that under the first article of the convention of
1826, the Sovereign of this country had a right to con-
sider the carrying on of the slave trade by Brazilian
subjects, and act upon that consideration. According
to the convention, at the expiration of three years it
should not be lawful for the subjects of Brazil to be
concerned in the carrying on of the African slave trade,
under any pretext, or in any manner whatever, and the
carrying on of such slave trade should be deemed and
treated as piracy. The carrying on of the slave Trade
by the law of nations was not an act of piracy. The
carrying on the slave trade by the subjects of certain
Powers had been made piracy by their own municipal
laws. Let it be said to the honour of the United States
that it was the first country which passed a law, making
the carrying on of the slave trade piracy by the
subjects of the United States. In the year 1824,
this country made it piracy, and subjected its
own subjects to the penalties of piracy.—(Hear.)
Brasil adopted the convention of 1817, which continued
in force till the convention of 1829, when the mixed
Commission was appointed, which continued in existence
down to 1841, when the Brazilian Minister asked the
English Government to do away with that Commission, be-
cause the Brazilian Government had declared all Brazilian
subjects who might be found engaged in the slave trade
to be guilty of piracy, and rendered liable to be
punished by the ordinary tribunals of the country.
The mixed courts at Sierra Leone and Rio
de Janeiro were abolished, and both British
and Brazilian subjects found trafficking in
slaves were declared to be guilty of piracy.
The Brazilian Government was willing that its subjects
engaged in the slave trade should be treated as pirates ;
but it was stipulated that vessels in the direct trade from
Africa to Brazil, before the 13th March, 1830, should
not be molested by the British cruisers.—(Hear.)
The Right Hon. Baronet then read at length, but in a
very low tone, extracts from the treaty, which were to
the effect stated. The treaty gave a clear right of search,
whioh was not so much intended against Brazilian ves-
sels, as against pirates and slave-ships which might make
use of the Brazilian flag. There was nothing in the pre-
sent treaty at variance with international law. It was
merely a recognition of a principle which had been
already incorporated in previous treaties and acted upon
by other nations.
The report was then brought up and received.
Mr. HUTT said he wished to make a few remarks
on the present question. He would not, however, occupy
their attention for any length of time, at that period of
the session, only he could not allow the opportunity to
pass without expressing his sentiments. He thought
they ought to pause in their proceedings. If it was found
hereafter that they had not proceeded on a firm and
legal basis, the worst evils might result from its Were
anything of an injurious character to proceed from the
treaty, it would produce feelings of the deepest regret in
his mind. This ought to be sufficient to induce them to
pause in their proceedings. The other evening, after listen-
ing to the arguments of the Hon. Member fOr Manchester,
and the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir 11. Peel), he was in-
clined to agree with the view which the latter took of
the question. Since then, however, he had carefully
weighed the arguments and examined into the merits of
the question, from which he had seen reason to alter his
opinion; and now he thought the Right lion. Baronet
had gone to far. There were two points in the treaty;
first, it made the slave trade unlawful; and second, it
provided that those engaged in it should be considered
as pirates. By the construction of the treaty, British
subjects who might be engaged in the slave trade might
be handed over to the Brazilian Government for trial
and punishment.
Sir R. PEEL—It does not so provide. It merely
says that Brazilian subjects, who may be found engaged
in the slave trade, should be considered as pirates.
Mr. HUTT—Still the terms of the treaty woulp war-
rant such a construction as that he had put upon it.
And what would be the practical effect ? That parties
engaged in the slitve trade—British subjects might be
taken to a country for punishment which was not so
civilised as this—where they would be made, not to
suffer the loss of life alone, but be subjected to be
broken on the wheel, or burned alive. The law against
pirates in this country was of a different character. So
far from even the punishment of death being now in-
flcted for this offence it had lately been commuted.
Sir R. PEEL—That is not the case.
Mr. HUTT—To some extent it had, at all events,
been commuted. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated
that the construction placed upon the treaty was, that
traders in slaves should be treated as pirates as far as
ships and goods were concerned. But they should not
stop here. The treaty should also apply to persons or
property. He thought that it was an incumbent duty
on the Government to induce the Ministry of Brazil to
render this declaration of the Executive a. portion of
the municipal law of the country. At present such was
rot the case, and therefore it was utterly impossible for
the Executive to carry out the provisions of any treaty
wgich had not the sanction of the Legislature.
Captain PECHELL said that it was in the highest
degree unfair that a duty should be imposed on naval
officers of the highest responsibility, and yet without any
chance of their receiving any remuneration fel-
the position in which - they were placed.— (Hear,
hear.) After the sum of 600,0001. and 300,000/.
had been paid to Portugal for the suppression of the
slave trade, he thought that that country was bound to
e adhere to the terms of the treaty of 1839. The Right
Hon. Baronet very well knew that a line of-battle ship
. was a far more cogent argument than all the phrase-
ology in the world ; and he thought that if the Govern-
ment were sufficiently ensrge:ic, that all they desired
would be attained.
Mr. MILNER GIBSON sail that by the Brazilian
code, the act of introducing Africans into the Brazilian
dominions for slaves was not recognised as piracy, al
though a declaration to that effect had been made as
early as the 7th of November, 1831. The fact was, that
the Legislature would not sanction the arts of the execu-
tive, and he did not see how this ceentry could declare
slave dealers to be pirates. The case was much the
same as that with France. In that instance the Go-
vernment had been obliged to recede, and he did not see
why they should not do so now.
After a few words from Sir R. PEEL and Mr. EwART,
The clause was added to the B 11.
The report was brought up, and the amendments con-
. sidered, and the Bill ordered to be printed, and read a
third time to-morrow.
GAMES AND WAGEII.i BILL.
On this Bill being brought on for further proceedings
on third reading,
Mr. HUME moved an amendment to the 15th clause,
to the effect that informers should have their full costs.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it .. 44
Majority against it —34
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
f)n the motion of going into Committee on the
FEES (CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS) BILL,
Mr. ESCOTT agreed in the general principle of the
Bill, and said that the officers of the Crown had no right
to receive any compensation for the performance of their

corn.
Mr. MILNER GIBSON said that as the object of
the Government was to remunerate the seryices of the
settlers, he thought that it would be best effected by al-
lowing them to go to the best market, and if his Hon.
Friend pressed the matter to a division he should
feel it his duty to support him. Another Hon. Member
had complained of the spiritual instruction of the people.
Now, it should be remembered that this Bill was con-
fined to Van Diemon's Land, and by a return which he
held in his hand, he perceived that among the prisoners
there was a greater proportion who could read and write
than among any free people, and, therefore, it was not
spiritual instruction which the people wanted, but food.
Tbe House then divided, when there appeared—
I, or the motion ' 35
Against it
Majority
The House then went into Committee, and the clauses
up to clause 8 were passed according to agreement. On
the proposition of the 12th clause,
Mr. HAWES said that this was a ease in which it was
justifiable to offer every opposition. Ikre it was evi-
dent that the price of corn was rising, and yet, while
there was evidently a dearth of food, they were shutting
out the produce of their own colonies, under the pretence
that it was necessary to provide employment for the
redundant population.
Mr. R. YORKE said that his Hon. Friend (Mr.
Hawes) was perfectly justifiable, and he should certainly
support him.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the object of those
on the other side of the House was neither more nor less
than to deprive the colony of that improvement which
it so much needed.
Mr. HAWES said that the Government were de-
termined to pass this Bill, and therefore opposition to it
would be useless. It should be remembered that the
petition which had been presented to the House had
been signed by the principal merchants in London, and
now it was backed by the dispatch of the Governor of
the Colony. Now, if they were to allow Australian
corn to be introduced they would be doing a benefit to
this colony, and reduce the taxation of this country.
The other clauses were then agreed to, and on the
motion that the report be brought up,
Mr. VILLIERS said that all opposition to this Bill
passing this session would cease if there was a promise
given that some Bill containing the principle which had
been just put forward by his Hon. Friend the Member
for Lambeth, should be introduced next session.
The report was then brought up and adopted.
QUEBEC FIRE.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that in bringing this great calamity under the notice of
the House, be was unable to state precisely the number
of dwellings which had been destroyed, but on one occa-
sion the fire had lasted from twelve o'clock at noon till
twelve at night, and on the other occasion, on the 28th of
June. it had continued from ten o'clock at night ; and
he believed that in -re than 1,200 houses had been re-,
duced to ashes. lie trusted, therefore, that the House
would unanimously assent to an address to the Crown to
grant the sum of 20,0001., to be applied to the relief of
the sufferers.
Mr. HAWES said that it was with the utmost satis-
faction that he saw this measure had been taken up by
the Government.
Sir R. INGLIS said, that so far from the matter hav-
ing been exaggerated, it had been understated by his
Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Sir H. DOUGLAS said that in one instance, when a
fire bad happened of a very serious nature in the pro-
vince of which he was Governor, the inhabitants of
Quebec had come forward in the most liberal manner,
and contributed to the relief of the district.
The House then resumed, and an address was
adopted.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS

TRADES DELEGATES' CON.
FERENCE.

duties.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that the Bill had been drawn
up with the view of abolishing all fees hereafter.
After afew words from the AT roR NE ir- GENERAL,
Mr. HUME said that. he took the Bill as an instal-
ment, aad for so far he considered it would be of public
benefit.
The Bill then went through Committee, and the report
was ordered to brought up to-morrow.
On the motion of going into Committee on the
WASTE LAND (AUSTRALIA) BILL,
Mr. HAWES said that the Bill was now reduced to a
single clause, and was limited to the colony of Van Die-
men's Land. Let the 1.131150 recollect that there was
a redundancy of land and abundance of labour there,
and yet, for all this, there was great distress. This was
most extraordinary. Let them, however, extend the
principles of free trade to the colony, and he had r.o
hesitation in saying that this distress would be greatly
alleviated, if not entirely removed. The Bill itself
stood self-condemned, for it was now shorn down to a
single clause. He would oppose the further pi ogress of
the Bill.
Mr. WARBURTON seconded the motion.
Mr. SCOTT expressed his surprise at the conduct of
the Hon.. Gentleman (Mr. Hawes) with respect to this
If a similar mode of proceeding were continued to
be adopted in that House he did not think its dignity
would be raised in the estimation of the country. He
considered that their opposition was not at alt disin-
terested. He thought they were lending themselves to
the New Zealand Company, and acting in a factious
spirit, for the purpose of thwarting this measure.
e interests of this important colony, from which they
Teceived a great portion of their wool, was being sa"
crifloed to a cet of speculating individuals. The Bill as
amended would have caused much satisfaction in the
waolony but forthe statement made by the Government
,last
Jkdr.HUME blamed the Hon, Gentleman for bringin

SILK WEAVERS' BILL.
This Bill was read a second time, and passed through
Committee.
REMOVAL OF THE POOR
Mr. BODKIN moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
amend the laws for the removal of the poor, and said
that great hardship was frequently endured by poor
persons aho fell into misfortune from sickness, in conse-
quence of their little households being obliged to be
broken up, if it were only to obtain reimbursement for
the parish in which. they resided fur support during their
illness. This he proposed to do away with. He also
proposed to adopt the suggestion thrown out
in his Bill some time ago, of not allowing
a removal to take place unless relief was re-
quired for a certain number of days after recovery.
Ile also proposed to adopt the other suggestions
which had been so ably brought forward by the Home
Secretary at the period to which he had referred. All
disputes should be settled by a barrister out of court,
instead of being left to the Court of Quarter Sessions,
as hitherto was the case. There were several other
points on which he would not just now dwell; but
he was ready to receive any suggestion for the improve-
ment of the Bill, or to render his assistance in carrying
any Bill for this purpose next sessions
Mr. PAKINGION gait" that he was exceedingly
glad that the subject had been brought forward, and he
trusted that his Right Hop. Friend the Secretary of
State for the Home Department would not be deterred
by the difficulties which he had formerly experienced
from again devoting his attention to it, and endeavour-
ing to rectify the serious evils of which so much just
complaint had been made.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he would be happy to give his
most anxious attention to the measure, and should be
glad to receive the assistance of the great legal know-
ledge and experience of his Learned Friend (M
B Akin). The state of the law at present with regard
to parochial settlements was most defective, and re.
quired full and careful revision. He hoped, in the
interim between this and the next session, due attention
would be given to this important qu-stion.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, which was
read a first time.
The House immediately afterwards adjourned, at five
minutes past Nine o'clock.

THURSDAY, JULY 31.
The Lords' amendments to the following Bills were
agreed to:
Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway.
Oxford and Rugby Railway.
Glasgow Junction Railway.
Erewash Valley Railway (No. 2).

The Delegates met yestercky at the usual hour, and
proceeded to discuss the in rits of the plan for the pur-
chase or rental of land on which to employ the surplus
labour of the Association. The objects of the plan
were set forth under the fillowing heads .-
1. The purchase of lands whereon to locate and em-
ploy the surplus labour of the Association, in such
manner as shall be most conducive to their own welfare
and that of the Association. _ _ .

2. The erection or rental of buildings for domestic,
industriow, and corumerci purposes, in such localities
as mty be best suited for these respective objects, and
the promotion of the general interests of the Asso-
ciation

3. The applicittion of the lands and buildings in the
following manner, to meet the corporate and individual
requirements of the members of the Association. 1. To
afford to trades in their corporate capaeity the power of
leasing in perpetuity, or of purchabing in fee simple,
such lands and buildings belonging to the Association as
they may require for the location and employment of
their surplus members ; and also the power of investing
their funds with the Ass, elation, by way of lean or
mortgage on any of the pr; p-rty of the Association.
2. To divide such portions of the estates purchased by
the Association as may be thought expedient into
small farms, to build thereon suitable cottages and out-
houses, and to sell or lease the property thus improved,
to individuals selected in accordance with the laws of
the Association. All leasehold farms may be sold, and
the proceeds re-invested in fresh estates, to be improved
and dealt with in like manner, in order that the sub-
scribed capital of the Association may, to the largest
possible
ing upon the land, the unemployed members of the
Association.
The first clause was agreed to with a trifling amend-
ment, as were also the second and third without dis-
cussion. The meeting adjourned at the usual hour.

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