The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-22 00:00:00

22 1845.

FE

BRUARY

that period ; I lso what was the state of Manchester ; what
seas the state of the menufacturints districts at that period ;
red NV e are nets taunted with having disbelieved the
alle,gations we head made in this House respecting the
state of the coati! ry. Brtt I can nos see that it
was a state of real and serious peril, and it did
become our duty to exert every power see poiseszed for
the purpose of protecting. the public peace.—( Cheers. ) And
that was tine can-c of my reference to the state of the country
in I stl ;2, and not, I assure the iron. Gentleman, with the in-
tention in the slightest degree of congesting him with the pro-
ceedings hich acre then endangering the kingdom. That,
Sir, is one of the points on which f vssittl to offer some ex-
planation in the course of last night's debate. But the Hon.
Member for Shrewsbury less declared his intention of support-
ing the motion of the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland.
In the course of the speech in which the lion. Gentleman
avowed that intention, he observed that I had, with very Treat
apparent warmth, addresaed the House, and that I had been
very emphatic in my action—but he undertook to assure the
House that my warmth, although I had heard the charges
of the Bight Hon Gentleman the Member fur Finsbury,
although be had charged us with being the cause of the
slisilding of innocent blond, with having fabricated warrsies,
with having abused and exceeded our pavers—was entirely
simulated, and that notwithstanding my apparent vehemence
and a :smith, I was acting the part, as I occasionally found
it convenient, of the " choleric gentleman."—(Laughter.)
Now, it is certainly very possible to manifest great vehemence
in action, and yet at the same time not to be in a very
great passion. On tl:c other hand, it is also possible to
appear exceedingly indifferent and compdsed in your
manlier, and yet exhibit very acrimonious feelings.—( Im-
mense cheering from both sides of the House.) Now 1 will not,
notwithstanding the provocation of the Hon. Gentleman, I
will not deal so harshly with him as he has dealt with me. lie
undertook to assure the House that my vehemence was pre-
tended, and my warmth simulated; I: on the contrary, will
do him the justice—the entire justice—of saying that Ido be-
lieve his bitterness was not simulated—( Tremendous cheering)
—but that it was who'l3 and entirely sincere !-_(Renewed
cheering, and laughter.) Now, the Hon. Gentleman has
perfect right to support a hostile amendment ; it is perfectly
open to the lion. Gentleman to It the debate proceed for two
nights, and then find that the motion is not placed exactly in
a convenient form, and to try to ascertain in what
mode it would be most captivating and convenient. Toe Hon.
Gentleman is at perfect liberty to give whatever support he
pleases to that motion ; all I ask is, when he gives that support
to a hostile amendment, that he does not say he gives it in a
friendly spirit.—( Loud cheers. )
" Give me the avowed, the erect, the manly f e,
Bold I can meet, perhaps can turn the blow,
But of all plagues, good Heaven, thy wrath can send,
Save ! save I oh, save me front the candid friend I"
—( Immense cheers.) Here we are met in debato ; we, and
our opponents opposite; we enter into conflict; we bear
wounds and we return them, adverso ictu. But when engaged
in that conflict, certainly it is not very convenient,
though still unavoidable, to have a blow aimed at
your right flank, on which you are not guarded.--( Cheers. )
Be it so ! it cannot be avoided ; but all I ask is, do not profess
friendship when your purpose is enmity.—( Cheers.) In the
course of the same speech the Hon. Gentleman made also
this charge against me; the Hon. Gentleman said,—and as it
appeared to me, it was quite an unnecessary allusion for the
sake of his argument,—the lion. Gentleman said that it was
notorious I was in constant correspondence and communica-
tion with a gentleman who had been engaged in Colonel
Despard's plot ; that this gentleman was now a Member of the
Government, and that, speaking of him, I had diaries ed he was
a friend of mine, and that I was proud of his friendship !
Putting these observations together, at II considering that the
gentleman alluded to is a mrniber of the Government, and
that I have avowed a friendship for him, I cannot find any
other person to whom these observations can apply, except a
friend of mine who was the subject of some discussion here
last year, when the absutd charge brought against him was
literally laughed out of the House. I cannot doubt, therefore,
that the observations of the Hon. Gentleman applied to Mr.
Bonham, who now holds a civil situation in the Ordnance
department.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The plot of
Colonel Despard took place in the year 1802. Well,
forty-three years have now elapsed since the year 1802. Now
I do not know whether a charitable feeling—considering that
my lion. Friend must have been a young man at the time—l
do not know whether a charitable feeling would not induce me
to maintain a friendship for a man after a lapse of forty-three
years.—( Cheers.) Why, when we recollect what took place
at that time, both in Ireland and in this country, I would not
revive the recollections of such a period; but certainly, if a man
showed a change of feeling, and an altered mode of life, I should
rather be disposed to extend that oblivion which is most consistent
with true charity, over the culpable proceedings of that man's
early life.—(Cheers.) But at the same time, considering that
Despard's plot was one of this nature—that one of the counts
of the indictment against Despard and his associates extended
to burning the Bank—that they intended a bloody slaughter of
the peaceable inhabitants of this city—but above all, that they
contemplated the murder of the Sovereign on his way to Par-
liament—l am not sure that the lapse of three-and-forty years
would justify me in recommending a man for a high civil
situation in the ordnance department. Now, observe, lam
speaking on the assumption that this Hon. Friend of mine
was really engaged in this plot. But what will the House
think—w.hat will the Hon. Memberifor Shrewsbury think of
himself--when I state that the charge is utterly without
foundation—(Loud cheers)—that it is as really and utterly
without foundation that my Hon. Friend was concerned in
Despard's plot, as it would have been if the lion. Member
for Shrewsbury had said he was himself concerned in the Gun-
powder Plot !—(Cheers and laughter.) I have received from
my Hon. Friend a letter on this subject, with which, in jus-
tice to him, I must trouble the House. It is as follows :—" I
have this moment read a speech of Mr. D'l,raeli's, which,
though my name is not mentioned in it, it is im-
possible, from the reference to the situation I have
the honour to hold, and the kindness with which you were
pleased to speak of me in the debate of last year, for me to mis-
understand. He charges me with being concerned in Col.
Despard's plot. I find, on referring to the State Trials, that
the trial.of Col. Despard took place in 1803, the plot having
occurred in the preceding year, 1802. 1 was at that time
sixteen years of age, in attendance on my father, then suffering
from an attack of paralysis, I being under the care of a private
tutor at home. My age at the time will probably exempt me
from any suspicion of having been concerned in that plot ;
but if not, I state explicitly that I had no more concern, di-
rectly or indirectly, with Colonel Despard and his asso-
ciates, than yourself."—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) My
Honourable Friend then goes on to allude to a more painful
subject, he says—" But that I may not be charged with with-
holding from you anything that might have given rise to such
a misrepresentation, I should state that my half-brother, who
was fifteen years older than myself, who, along with Lord
Cloncurry, was arrested under the suspension of the habeas
corpus, and confined in 1799." Now Ido ask the Hon. Gen-

tleman to have some sort cf founlationfor h s statements. 1 ap•
prebend that he had opportunities of ascertaining at least Mr.
13onham's age, and I ask whether he thinks it fair to charge a
gentleman with having participated in Colonel Despard's plot,
ho being at the time of the age of sixteen, that being the
readiest means of at once showing how totally the charge was
without foundation. Whether or not the Hon. Gentleman had

heard of the misfortune of my Hon. Friend's half-brother,
several years older than himself, I will ask him whether or not
it would not have been more just to have asr!ertatted the
facts of the case before he undertook to charge my Hon.
Friend with having been guilty of such a conspiracy a;,ainst
the life of his Sovereign ? These are the two points on which
I wished to enter. I have said before, that Ido not mean to
take any share in that general discussion in:which I have before
had an opportunity of joining. I spoke before under the
same feelings which I speak now, and I tell you you are
meditating an act of the greatest injustice towards her Ma-
jesty's Government. It was disclosed last year that letters
were opened by my Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State.
It became necessary to submit the whole matter to a Com-
mittee of Inquiry. This House selected its own tribunal.—
(Cries of " No, no," and " Hear, hear.") Why, by the un-
animous vote of the House, without a division, this Secret
Committee was appointed. Let us see in what relation the
House stands towards the Government. The House chose to

have the inquiry conducted by a Secret Committee, and it en-
tirely approved of the gentlemen who composed it. I know
not whether the approbation of that Committee was universal,
but this I know, that the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell)
delivered his opinion that the Committee ought to be secret, and
that the constitution of the Committee was a perfectly fair one.
A division was taken on the question whether the
Hon. Gentleman ought to be a Member of the Committee or
nut. He stated himself that he had no wish to be a Member

of the Committee.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He begged of his
frivnds not to divide the House on the motion. I assured him

that no personal disrespect was intended towards him, and on
the other hand the Noble Lord who moved for the appointment
of the Committee was for the same reason excluded from it.

I say, Sir,_ this House chose its own tribunal. We were
invited before that Committee to disclose every fact, and we
slid so. It is too late now to say that the constitu-
tion of the Committee of the House of Lords was different
from the House of Commons. You were aware of the con..
stitution of that Committee three days after its appointment.
The Committee of the House of Lords was appointed on the
4th of July. The only difference is, that Members of the late
Government were placed upon it. It is true, you made an ob-
jection at the time, but you did not urge it as a fatal objection.
The Mai. Gentleman at the time—l mean before the ap-
pointment of the Committee—declared that his letters had
been opened, although you are now attempting to raise a
question of privilege. I say, that before that Committee was
appointed, the lion. Gentleman distinctly charged us with
opening his letters. He said, on the 18th of July, referring
to a former period, " I believed then, and I bel►eve now, I
I am in a condition to prove that my own letters have been
opened." What can be more emphatic ?—( Hear, hear.) Tho
lion. Gentleman concluded his speech by putting to my Right
lion. Friend the same question as he puts now—did you, or
did you not, orn my letters ?—(" Hear, hear," from Mr.
Duneombe.) [he Hon. Gentleman had as much cognisance
of the fact then as now. He told you so. He said he was in a
condition to prove it. The course you chose to take after this
declaration, you took it unanimously, was to appoint a Secret
Committee, in order that there might be no pretence for with-
holding any information. We gave that information without re-
serve. We gave every warrant, every reason upon which we acted
to the Committee, because that Committee was secret and com-

posed of honourable men. That Committee brought in a
verdict of acquital, so far as intentions and honourable motives
___

were concerned. We stand confidently upon that. We are
prepared to stand the test of a division, although we have already
submitted our conduct to examination, and appeared before a
tribunal of your own selection.—(Cheers.) Irepeat, Sir, the
inquiry was fully gone into. We gave our evidenee, we were
cross-examined as to motives, yet that tribunal gave a verdict
decidedly in our favour, and will you now reverse every prin-
ciple ofjustice?—(Lond cries of" Hear, hear," from the Minis-
terial benches.) You propose to submit us to
another inquiry and another tribunal. Sir, lam well aware
that different lines of conduct may be pursued by men when in
office and when on the Opposition benches. lam aware of the
reserve which belongs to a member of the Government ; but
yet there are circumstances which should guide the conduct of
those who have been in office, who cannot altogether divest
tl:emselves of the responsibility and trust which formerly at-
tached to them. I was invited in the attack made by you—
(pointing to some of the members of the late Administration)
—with respect to the unfortunate results of your Indian policy,
but I refused to be a party to any such attack. I was thev;
office. I knew all the real facts of the case. We bad a pow-
erful support, but f said we will not concur in the motion made
by the Hon. gentleman, tending to brand our political °pp.
nNts with odium, not 1 know that the Hon. Gentleman
thought that was a needless delicacy, But Ido not take credit
to myself for this course—(again addressing the Members of
the late Administration on the Opposition benches)—l knew
well your position. I knew in what condition you were as
well as you did yourselves. We have exercised no power,
which you have not, I state this in the face of the ;,13;iiirry,
that in no single instance have we c;erciaed power whichn
you would net Lave dolie under siniilar circumstances. I
critical times r4e as you were, to commit mistakes.d
Letters may' have been stopped and opened, without aineyset_n:
credit being implied on the party to whom they were aod_d-Hieard.;
but this was yourl You know
You concurred in the appointment of that tribune
that we did nothing which you had not yourselves
position likowise.—(Loud cries. f
envy you
dno.t.
done.—
(Loud cheers and cries of
It will be but a sorry triumph even if shouldyon succee in
subjecting us to a second trial, and provoking.hethat condemna-
tionactpd wrong wyarnc'lwilling Noble Len! w-
.. Hear, hear.") I
to admit that I think this power
from which we had escaped._l
•i, wt to Alaz.oni• wait' si7, with respect
to forek.ners,
ought tribe exercised wills a reserve almost greater than to

. :
i our own eaentrymen. But, Sir, I cannot altogether accede to ' occasion had only stated that he did not kpcued.—(ll now Aat __me.
his own eelp..4-
the doctrine of the Noble Lo:d, that, under no conceivable letters might not have been oear. ) ' .. eireusastances. should a Gevernment lie permitted to exercise Mr. JARVIS wished to state the reasosSemfeirmoerinich bee.
this power. I think noshing would I; so uniwise as to Isy would supp,rt the amendment. He had fella.; ;Alin :error, and"
tf
down any general rule on the subject. When one he believed many of Cm Members of the II ;stied'lallti-iv
sseesees,
of the Bonaparte fien;ly organised en expeditien for an e^: or in consequence of the allegation _ Tfieg, .elglsts e4ltes.sfer s.
the' purpose of invading France, and atm:Time:l to the Hon :lien-Weer for Shrewsbury, respec _ '.4 (42i7dIte i!elsot-e..;
i I
make the shores of this country subservient to his ; Right Hon Baronet's opposite—a gentle -s .' 'Aifiecteti• '
_2l'4_
rebellious scheme, I think it would have been perfectly juei- ' the Government. Ile cas glad that the ex all , bail" 7., ~., "
fiat& to prevent this country from beieg made in any way in- ma le, which induced the Hon. Member fo '...'..."
strumental in carrying on a civil war in Franco:. At a future ' make so complete and becoming an apolegytaftsdaee) mete, time it (110)- be-ileairahle to enter into the question as to wit`- Let it be remeinered then that it had been alleged, it sueAN
tiler or not it may be desirable to alter the pressnt law, but. we answer to the complaint of his Hon. Friend, who now de-
will not attempt to purchase your favour by any promised al c- manded an inquiry, that because a Member of this house had
ration io the law, or by intimatiog any- readiness to accede to presented petitions, and advocated the came of persons who
it. Condemn us if you will,- but we will not endeavour were supposed to be connected with the disturbance of the
to cenciliate you by making any promise with country, he was himself a fit object for suspicion, and the
respect to the sacrifice of this important power.— (Loud Secretary of State was justified in opening his letters.—
cheers. ) Let it rest upon is own basis. Again, I ask you to (No, no, from the Ministerial benches.) As the Right lion.
remetuber the position in which you were placed in Pe led and Baronet ( Sir Robert Peel) had thought it proper to snake an
1543. Remember the danger which then existed. We en- explanation in the case of his private friend, and to accept the
deavoured to tranquillise the country without making any apology, why should not an explanation be given in a similar
demands for extraerdiriary powers. We coneueted the trials spirit to his lion. Friend the Member for Finsbury ?—( Hear,
with a spirit of equity mei moderation whieli extorted ahnoat hear. ) They (the Mini -terial party) had charged the Hou.
unanimous praise. —( Lend cheers.) We did that, and you Member fir Filo !Jury with being connected with persons who
new enjoy tranquillity. —( Loud Ace, 5. ) Last year, were dangerous to filo poaee of the country. Why, then, did
speaking of Great Li itain, we. never enjoyed more they refuse to de him the same justice a hieh they did to their
of social contentment, or witnessed Ims disposition towards personal friends •'—( !fear, hear. ) Ile did not think that this
insubordinatieri--I mean as it regards political ()fleeces—or dis- zimstion teas to be decided by acrimonious language on each
tuibances of the public peace. I say, again, we have been side, but by both sides ,Rowing a willingness to do justice, and
already tried. Remember this—expose us if you will to a a desire for nothing more.—( hear, hear.) The Committee
second trial; avail yourselves of popular indignation, which, if might or might nut have investigated the case of the
applicable at all, is applicable to the principle and not against Honourable Member for Finsbury ; but what was the
the men ;pi oceed against us if you will—but I say I would cowry to infer from the silence of the Commit-
rather be its the position of men defeated by your itijuotme, tee on that nuts' ct ?—( Hear, hear. ) They had given
than be one of the majority by whom that iteustice is ac- no verdict in the case ; and he had a right to inter a verdict of
complished.—( The Right lion. Baronet sat down amidst acquittal of his lien. Friend, and the public would Certainly do
loud and continued cheering.) se.—( Hear, hear.) If the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite
Mr. B. DISH A ELI then rose amid the most profound si- refused explanation and inquiry, he wculd say that, by their
lance. lie said—l am aware that I cannot speak twice upon own conduct, they were condemned.—( (Sheers. ) He (Mr.
this subject, having seconded the amendment, but I may be Jervis) would rot advert to the law of the case, if he had riot
permitted—and I entreat the utmost indulgence front the House been in some sort referred to by his Hn. and L-arned Friend
—I may be permitted to explain the circumstance to whirls the Solicitor-General. lie admitted that this was not a thong
the Right lion. Baronet has alluded. I will not stop to allude occasion to discuss the question, whether the law was in favour
now to the reasons which induced me to make a statement of the Secretary of State, or whether, if it were so, it should be
which has been proved to be utterly unfounded.—( Hear, hear, continued. But, as the Solicito•-General had chosen to reply
and cheering.) The statement, I beg to assure the Right. lion. to, the statement of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member
Baronet and the House, that was made by me was wholly un- for Kinsale, he (Mr. Jervis) did not think it would be justice
premeditated.—( Hear, hear.) I will at once acknowledge that to the profession if lie did riot give his opinion of the law to be
I committed a great and grievous error, and lam not ashamed confirmatory of that of his Hon. and Learned Friend.--
to acknowledge it.—( Cheers.) lam glad that the House is so (Cheers.) It might be said that the right to issue warrants for
full, and that I can offer to the gentleman whose conduct I the opening of letters in the Post-office was given by statute.
have so inisiepresented, an ample, a humble, and a complete But the only exemption by statute was to the officers of the
apology.—(Cheer.) I deeply regret that I have been Post-office from criminal proceedings for acting upon
led to make such a statement, anti I can only the warrants of the Secretary of State. —( Hear, hear.)
say that if there is any language at my command The simple question before the House was that of an Hon.
that can better express the deep pain which I feel Member, standing in his place in Parliament, and making
at having without cause and without premeditation hurt his a positive statement, that his letters had been opened. That
feelings—(Cheers)—if it is possible to convoy to that gentle- was a breach of privilege. The Hon. Member for Fins-
man the expression of my regret—that language I will at once bury had a right to demand an explanation, and on this
use. But Ido not think I can offer that apology in a manner ground he (Mr. Jervis) would support the amendment of the
more satisfa _tory than in the place where the report was circa- Noble Lord.
lated, and in a House so full as this is to-night.—( Cheers. ) Now, Mr. 111U/STTZ rose amid loud cries of " Divide, divide."
Sir, I may be permitted to say, that it was a statement per- He said he would not detain the 'louse many minutes.
fectly unpremeditated, I had been taunted by a cheer, which He wished to assure the Right Hon. Baronet that in giving
called to my recollection a circumstance which, I confess, I his support to the Noble Lord, he did not wish to cast
now regret having alluded to.—(Cheers.) lam not a person any reproach upon the Right Hon. Baronet. He thought
apt to be irritable in debate, but, at half-past eleven at night, there had been a great deal more reproach thrown on the
few of us rise superior to all angry feelings.—( Ole and cheers.) Government than they deserved. What had they done but
I can say that the real state of the circumstances to which allu- follow the steps of their predecessors, and was it not natural
sion has been made, has given me sincere pleasure.—( Oh, oh, that they should do so ?—( Hear, hear.) It was a distinet
and Hear, hear.) I state again, most distinctly, that it hay- question, whether the practice was right or wrong, He
mad Hear, represented to me, and at no seeond-hand, must confess that lie did not like the foreign part of this
that the gentleman in question is perfectly free from blame, I question.—( Ilear, hear.) He had been extremely astonished
will refer, and lie may refer with satisfaction, to this exculpa- at finding that the power of opening letters existed. The
tion of his character.—( Cheers, laughter, awl cries of " Oh. public had been astonished. lie had not yet recovered the
oh.") lam sure that it I have said anything to lead to these feeling which he had entertained when he first heard that
murmurs, it has been far from my intention to do so. I cannot this power existed. When he first heard it he denied it.
answer the Right Hon. Baronet on
hisste other heads. He has He thought that such a practice ought to be confined to
four-and-twenty hours to arrange improptu reply--( Loud the Autocrat of Russia, or the Despot of Prussia. He had
cries ot " Oh, oh")—and I must be silent. But I may be al- always thought that in England a man's letters were as safe et
lowed to put the Right lion. Baronet right in a statement that his house. He thought the practice was a disgrace to any
is perfectly incorrect. He has stated that I was the cause of Government.—(Cheers.)
this areendnatnt being pressed.—(Cheers, laughter, and cries Mr. T. DUNCOMBE then rose to reply. He would not
of " Oh, oh.") So far is that from being the case, I very detain the House many minutes after such a lengthened dee-
much opposed the amendment being brought forward, for this bate. When the Right lion. Baronet said that he (Mr. Ilene-
reason—(Laughter)—because I knew it would give to the combo) was meditating injustice to him he would ask whether
Right Hon. Baronet an opportunity of speaking twice.— it would not be much truer for him to say that the Right Hon.
(Laughter and cries of " Oh, oh," amid which the Hcn. Mem- Baronet was continuing injustice towards him (Mr. Dun.
ber for Shrewsbury resumed his seat.) combe), denying that which he thought, and which he believed
Sir JOHN HANMER said the Right Hon. Baronet at a groat portion of the public thought, he had a right to de..
the head of the Government had made some observations with mand ? The Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland pre-
regard to the amendment pressed by the Noble Lord the Mem- posed by his amendment to supply an omission of the Corn.
ber for Sunderland; and he (Sir John Hanmer) thought it mittee. The Right Honourable Baronet said he wouLl
right to state, as soon as possible, what he knew about that resist that motion because it would reflect on the Govern-
amendment, because the Right Honourable Baronet in- ment. How could it do that, when ey
dulged in some observations which appeared to him clearly to that they had exercised the power of openingth stated
letters so
impugn the right of those Members who satat on that side to leniently? Why if they had another Committee they would
act in any manner their sense of justice diated. He was come out of it purer by the investigation. He had been accused
not about to enter on the question that he haul formeriy by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary-at-War with,
urged with regard to the Hon. Gentleman the Member for having brought forward this motion solely on grounds of per-
Finsbury. He had expressed his opinion on that subject sonal hostility to the Right Hons. Baronet the Secretary for the
formerly', and the House would do him the justice to remember, Homo Department. With reference to the charge of having
that whether that opinion was right or otherwise, whatever brought forward the motion from a feeling of personal hostility
judgment might be formed of the discussion, he had confined to the Right Hon. Gentleman, he begged altogether to die.
his observations to the case of the Honourable claim any such motive. Ile had used strong express-
Gentleman himself, putting aside altogether that of M. Mazeini sinus in reference to the conduct of the Government.
and other persons. If that joint case had been brought before But he wanted to know against whom he was to
the House, it was his intention to have voted for the Govern- direct his attack ?( Hear, hear. ) Was he to attack the
ment.—( Partial cheers, and marks of impatience.) lie was Lord Chancellor, or the Lord Chamberlain, or any other indie
speaking to a question—a grave question—Which concerned the victual ? No, he must attack the individual filling the offieeef See
independence of Parliament. lie (Sir J. Hanmer) spoke but cretary of State for the time being. If the late Government
very seldom, and he was anxious to explain the case to Hon. had exorcised the power in the same manner, he-should have
Gentlemen. When he came down to the House, he spoke to acted precisely as he hail done.--( Hear, hear.) The Right
the Noble Lord the Member fur Newark ( Lord J. /Ilan- Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government said—" You,
tiers), and expressed a great desire that the ques- have chosen your own tribunal, and the verdict is one of ae-
tion should be limited to this single case, lie wrote quittal to us." Now, what was the fact with regard to the
on a scrap of paper which he had in Isis pocket yet— choosing of this tribunal ? Was it not done in a monstrous
(Laughter)—in language_ precisely to the effect of the amend- hurry S Did they not omit the usual form, viz. that of placing
ment submitted by the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland, the names on the table on one day, and appointing the Come
He was sitting in his place, when the Noble Lord canoe to mittee on the next?—( [leer, hear.) The names were takers
him. He understood, for he had not been in the House— as they came out of the Right ll.in. Baronet's pocket,
( Laughter)—that he (Sir John Hamer) had expressed one at a time, and if they had not taken them as they were,
an opinion with regard to the Hon. Gentleman tint they could have had no Committee at all. Now, what was the
Member for Finabury. He stated that he had expressed result of the verdict of the Committee? The Right Honourable
such an opinion, and that he was anxious to give a fair Baronet said, " Whatever von do, stand by a ommtee.'
and independent vote upon the subject, if the gate of the The Committee were very much divided, and the C
Noble Lord
Hon. Member alone should come b, fore the House. He thought who was the Chairman of it stated that there was a bit of black
it not prudent to move such an amendment himself, as he was and a hit of white, and it was, altogether, neither black nor
not a good speaker—( Laughter)—and loth to present himself white.—( Laughter.) That was the report of the Committee
to the patience of the House. The Noble Lord had written itself. What did the lion. Member for Kendal say? Why.
:mother amendment which he (Sir John Hanmer) found pre- that there were two parties on the Committee, who were very
eisely similar in its text to his own, and he said that the equally balanced, and that, consuently, the report could be
Noble Lord's station, long experience, and positions in the nothing less than one of compromise; and if he were allowed
House, entitled him to move the amendment to which he ( Sir to express his opinion in reference to that part of the
John Hamner) would with pleasure give his support. Such report which related to Mazzini, and the exercise of the
were the facts of the case, lie thought that the Right Hon. power with regard to foreigners, the Honourable Gentleman
Baronet wished to fetter the independence of lion. Members said he must state that, in his judgment, the Right lion.
on that side of the House.—(Laughter and cheers.) It was Baronet had not exercised a sound discretion.—( Hear, hear. )
not the first time he had entertained that opinion. Ile Was that a verdict of acquittal ? In point of fact, it was no
did give Government Isis general support, but he held himself verdict at all. Generally speaking, when a jury could not
at liberty to vote as his conscience directed ; and as long as agree they were dismissed, and a new inquiry granted ; and he
he had the honour to be a Member in that House lie should not ventured to say that if the Right lion. Baronet would put these
be called in question by any man, not even by him holding the nine gentlemen into the box, and let him take his witnesses
very highest position in that House.—(Laughter and cheers.) into an open room, they would come to a much more conclusive
Sir GEORGE GREY was glad to observe that some Hon. report than that which had been laid upon the table. Why, was
Gentlemen opposite agreed with Members on that it to come to this, that they were never to canvass any report to
(the Liberal) side upon this question. It was some be made by a Committee? Where would be the use of appoint-
satisfaction fur them to observe the symptoms of itag a Committee if such would be the course pursued ?He had
mutiny and rebellion which existed against the shown that there were omissions in the report which had been
impulsive principle of the Right lion. Baronet—(Loud made, and he thought there were sufficient grounds for inquiry.
cheers)—which the 1-lon. Baronet the Member for Essex The opening of Mazzini's letters commenced immediately after
(Sir John Tyrrell) had frankly and honestly declared was the Christmas, but no notice had been taken of this to the Corn-
principle on which a large number of the lion. Members on mittee. Mr. Wurzel! had never petitioned the Howe, having
that side supported the vernment.—( Hear, hear.) It was no idea that his letter had been opened, yet his name had been
not his intention to provoke a continuance of the debate, on mentioned in the report. But there was another foreigner
a question which was now so much narrowed by the amend- whose name was not introduced, because he had an
ment of the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland. The intimate friend who was a member of the Committee. Now,
Right lion. Baronet opposite had addressed the House at he contended that this was an act of great injustice to him.
some length upon this question, and had fully and fairly stated Had the Right Hon. Baronet been candid, he might have
his views ; but he availed himself of the privilege of his saved much ill-blood and ill-feeling. If the Right Hon.
office by speaking a second time, and in that speech he had Baronet had said at once, "We have opened your
not confined himself to a mere explanation as he should letters, but from the citeumstances of the country
have done. He did not say this because he undervalued we were justified in so doing, at the same
the speech he had just heard, for he did hope that this lengthened time, hoe ever, we are bored to state that we found nothing
discussion would lead to some satisfactory legislative enact- in them that in the slightest degree criminate you," though
merit upon it ; but he did think that speech might have been he should still have contended that an act of great injustice
made at an earlier period of this discussion, and thereby avoid had been committed, he should have forgiven what had been
the protraction of it to three nights' debate.—(Hear, hear.) done, and should have forgotten it as quickly as he could.
However, the House had now before it the reports of both But now how stood the question? It had been said that he
Committees, and he hoped the result would be some legislative had produced no proof that his letters had been opened ; and
enactment, so as to place the law on some certain footing, for some gentlemen uggested that he should call his
at present it was in a most unsatisfactory state, and demanded proofs to the bar. lie begged to state that he
that it should be either altogether abolished, or made plain and would submit a motion for that purpose—that be
intelligible.—( Hear, hear.) In the matter now under discus- would bring Isis proofs to the bar.—( Loud cheers.) He would
sion, he could not. avoid saying that the Government were ex- make a motion to call to the bar the officers of the Pest-office.,
recedes iegly bl ameable.—(Cristatees
the"Oh,whichand uds on he thought had opened his letters without a warrant. It had been
so.—( Hear, hear.) What was grounds
the question now before the asked why the letters of Members should be protected say
House? It was not of crimination of the Hon. Member for more than those of other persons ? The only difference was, he
Finsbury ; for after a full investigation—(The rest of the conceived, that in an ordinary case there was a misdemeanor,
sentence was lost in the confusion that prevailed at the moment, whereas, in the other, there was a breach of privilege. The
and cries of " Order, order.") lie did not think that after Right Honourable Baronet must not suppose that he begrudged
the verdict of the Committee, as contained in their report, it him any information or amusement which could be derived
would be fair to submit the Government to the ordeal of an- from his correspondence.—(Laughter.) lie was sure, that if
other tribunal of inquiry.—( Hear, hear.) He would cordially Lord Sidmouth had done the Right Hon. Baronet the honour
subscribe to that verdict, but at the same time he would ask had lopening his letters, he would have been equally entertained
the Hon. Memb. r for Finsbury had a like verdict ? (Laughter)—and he would have been exceedingly surprised
That Hon. Member had complained that his letters had been if he had been told that, at some future day, that
Right Hon.
opened, and he asked for redress for that outrage.--( Hear, Baronet would sit amongst those men whom he had de-
hear.) If his letters had been so opened (and ot that there nounced over and over again as men who had always sup-
could be no doubt), then was he not in the position of a man ported bad measures and resisted good. (Laughter.)
who stood suspected by the Government ? He ( Sir George With regard to tke amendment now made, he begged to
Grey) contended that he was, and that the report of the Corn- state that, as there appeared to be a strong dis-
mittee was, in fact, a verdict against him.—( Hear, hear.) If position not to assent to the motion, and as
so, then he called upon the Government to boldly and fairly it appeared most prudent to take the best chance that existed
deny the allegation, or to give him the means of a full and fair of obtaining justice, he should withdraw the motion in order
investigation into the whole transaction, and enable him to
that the sense of the House might be taken on the amendment.
clear his character of that suspicion.—( Hear, hear.) What Sir R. PEEL said the usual course was to take the sense
was the course of the Government towards the Hon. Member of the House on the original motion ; but as he had no
for Finsbury? If on the first night of this discussion they objection to the sense of the House being taken so as to
had the power to deny the allegation of the Hon. Member,
combine the greatest mass of opinion, he should not object to
why did they not do so, and put an end to this discussion?— c
( Hear, hear.) If, on the other hand, they adopted this re-
the putting of the amendment.
port, why did they not once avow in an open and manly man-
The motion was then withdrawn, and the amenddmtheent
Hpuot.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, an
ner the fact, that they had ordered the opening of the Hon.
Member's letters?—( Hear, hear.) But instead of adopting use
divided, when there appeared—
-1450
For Lord Howiek's amendment dment ...
this course, they chose rather to adopt the tortuous 240 Against it
path they were now following, and leave the House
Majority against the am
to infer that they admitted the fact.—( Hear, hear.)
The amendment was eonseq ueTtiy lost.
If the Committee had investigated the case of the PROPERTY
AX BILL,
—O5
Hon. Member for Finsbury, they had made no report This Bill was brought in
upon it. The Government did An not deny that the letters had STAMP DUTIES e
been opened. Yet the Committee were silent on the point, adsrseialtinaLfirTtltoimiN.
BILL,
e
This Bill was also read a first time.
and surely the inference of their abstaining from any allusion SUGAR DUTIES.
to the circumstance proved that there was nothing in those Sir R. PEEL, in answer to a question from Mr. Hawes,
that the motion with respect to the sugar duties would
letters contained of a criminatery character.—( Hear, hear.)
order in which it originally stood,andthe
Under these circumstances, he (Sir George Grey) would say
the lion. Member for would precede that of
n in the
for Manchester
mo-
ths lion. Member for Finsbury was perfectly warrantedhiscomest stated, e
od
fo,
following up the subject here, and in calling upon to
assignedli thelion
Noble Lord the Member for London.
POST-OFFICE ESPIONAGE.
ousine
to defend him.—(Hear, hear.) What was the retarso
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave notice that, on "'
by the Right Hon. Baronet, the Home Secretary,
ex • should move that certain officers belong y , uesday next, he
onmogu i teo,
thoerin Afelramj ea ttyh':
answering the question when first put to him
,?.n wts)uchtfhoar-qt:e-so.t.
Post-office do attend at the bar of then
trerne inconvenience would arise from ens
House under what authority
they had been parties to detain-
tions, but he (Sir Geo. Grey) would contendlsame question, they
ins•,idel_aying, or opening his (Mr. Duncombe's) post letters
answering
gthat if twenty
Members stood up in the Ilouee to putt
Suchi an excuse was a
should be aneseebed.—( Hear. hear.)been made use of.—( Hear.) fle House then adjourned at One o'clock.
flimsy peetext, and should no
Did they believe that a Mintishtaevrial majority would settle the
questionthey
?—Did believe thati a man who had public
opinion, justice, precedent,
and 'acv in his favour, would rest
with the decision
ofthat majority ?—(Cheers.)
Did they
think that their decision would prevent the renewal of the dis-
cussionto the obstruction of the public busi-
at another. time,
7—plinisterial cheers, and counter-decors from the Oppo-
sition.)ness.Much as he reg.ret,ed that interruption, he thought
e justly. do.the Government c,uolit to give the satisfaction s
rnanit,;,d, awl *reconsider their determination. In appointing
die Committee of last year, the Ministers had ec,1,1,1
to public opinion. He hoped they osoeltd •,-,, G, sae the
expediency of adopting a simiAr e;utrae, and making a similar
coucession,—( liessie hear,) He hoped they would give Isis
uon, Friend the Member for Finsbury an opportunity of vin-
dicating his character—(Hear, hear)—and yield to the general
opieioa of that (the Opposition) side of the House, of many
of their own supporters, and of the public generally, out tef
doors.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. STRUTT begged leave to explAl;, iinat he had not
said in his speech what had bci;ln a‘trily,-,ted to him, that his
Hon. Friend ;‘,,i,s- Liettri:er for Finsbury had not, in bringing
tee 4tfilee'sisbefrire the House, mentioned his own case. 11 hat
he had said was, that his Hon. Friend did not bring forward
the charge of opening his letters, in the same distinct and direct
manner in which he now did. His Honourable Friend oat that

OPINIONS or THE DUKE or WELLINGTON.—We
are requested to state that Mr. Colburn, of Great
Marlborough-street, has this day published " The
Maxims and Opinions of the Duke of Wellington," in
1 vol. Bvo., with Portrait, price 14s. bound, which can
now be had of all booksellers. Mr. Culburn has also
just published the German Prince's new work, " Egypt
under Mehemet Ali," by Prince Puckler Muskau.
Translated by 11. Evans Lloyd, Esq., complete in 2 vols.,
with Portrait, &c., price 16s. bound, comprising the
three volumes of the German original.
LYCEUM THEATRE.—DougIas Jerrold's Prisoner
of War was produced for the first time at this theatre last
evening, Mr. and Mrs. Keeley sustaining their original dm-
raottsTs. The performance of these artiste's it is idle to
criticise—they acted :Is they always do,admirably—the other
characters were well cast. Valentine and Orson concluded
the evening's entertainment. This extravaganza still con-
tinues its brilliant career, and deserves to do so. The pretty
female warriors were greatly applauded in their evolutions
The house was crowded.
Mr, Wick ha m, Chairman of the Stamps and Taxes, and
Mr. Dean, Chairman of the Customs, had interviews, yester-
day, with the Chancellor of the Exchequer.