The Sun.
London, England, 1819-06-24 00:00:00

CHARITABLE FOUNDATIONS.

Lord CASTLEREAGIi moved the third reading of 1
the Charitable Foundations' Bill. ' .
Mr. Beouonest rose and spoke at some length
on the various provisions of the Bill, which he
said were in a great degree similar to those which
be himself had introduced in the Bill of last Ses-
sion, though they had been struck out in the
other House• The principal difference between
the Bill of last Session wtdch had passed this
House and the present, was, that this Bill pro-
vided two Boards of Commissioners, one of which
had the power of calling for papers and persons.
He then entered into some details of the adean-
tages which had already been derived from the
labours of the Commissioners. In one branch of
Charities alone a saving of 40001. per ann. had
been effected, and this, if nothing else should be
done, was sufficient to make up for the ex-
pellees of the Commission, Even if the Com-
misioners should not proceed more rapidly than
hitherto, their labours would produce much good.
As to that part of the subject which related to
special visitors, and visited charities, it seemed to
him the most important point. It was contends
ed that visited charities should be excluded frotn
the provisions of this measure, ou the ground that
it was against the will .•f the founder—on the
principle that cups est dare, ejus cst disponere. But
Parliament had acted on the principle of exclud-
ing such charities in former cases. If this prin-
ciple were to be admitted, why were any founda-
tions to be brought within the inquiry i—The
argument was, that in observance of the will of
the donor, these charities should not be,included
for which he, the donor, bad provided a special vi-
sitor ; but that it he appointed his heir-at-law
a visitor, the inquiry should he made. If the ar-
gument were cot feet as to the latter, there was
not hitig to distinguish the former. It could only
arise from confidence in the special visitor that he
should have such duties reposed its hiin by the
donor. But it he went still further in his confi-
dence, and made the visitor also a trustee, then,
on the-argurnet►t that cujus est dare ejus est dis-
ponere, the exception must end, and the provisions
of the Bill must apply. When a smaller degree
of confidence was imposed by the donor, the per-
son in whom Ise teposed it was to be implicitly
trusted ; but if he reposed a greater degree
of confidence in a person, and made him both vi-
sitor and trustee, then the confidence must cease,
and the inquiry must begin. Was this consistent
with reason, justice, or common sense ? He
hoped he would induce the House to strike out
altogether the clause which made an exception in
favour of special visitors not being also trustees:
It he coup' tot succeed in that, there were some
other alterations which he .trusted he should more
easily persuade them to adopt. The great excep-
tion of the Universities, and also Schools of
which they were trustees—of the Schools of Win-
chester, Harrow, and the others specially named,
all the Colleg;ate Churches would still remain.—
As to the number of visited Charities in Eng-
land, the Commissioners, out of tlie 260,which
they had exatnined, had found six to be visited ;
but there were others which they had not 20 exa-

mined as to be able to state ; and he 'lto tight tthe true proportion toss about five per cent.
this rate the number of visited Schools througol'a
out the kingdom must be above 2,000 c 30(1
the loNest computation at least 1,200 School'
tits`
would, as the Bill now stood, be exempted, tr°ll/
its operatiou.
Mr. R. PEEL differed from the Hon. Member
who had sat down, both in the arguments whi
PLecii
he had advanced, and in tie assertions which t
had made. Were the Court of Chancery to °c
..
an visitors, that is, were a order to issue fro' :
that high authority for papers and documints FPI?
the various seminaries, there would be an cod,
according to law, to the power of the Visions Commissioners ; consequently there would be "-
necessity for superseding them, as their Hattori':
was of coarse annulled. The Hon. Gentleto
had talked much of inconsistency. Why not cal
up his doctrines to the Schools ? Why not to lb
Universities The fact is, that there was rio jar.,
consistency as the matter now stood. It
evident that those who were invested mitt) big
authority, as in. the present case, frequently r 4.
ercisedehat authority far beyond the power grot;
ed by Parliament. He did not mean that atos.
lestitutittos were to blame. He knew their OP;
arable worth, and no man could forma 14",
estimate of their value. But highly as he respec`;
ed the character of surh-Commissioners, he Visa
anxious that the powers conferred on tham shou.7
in no instance be abused. It was therefore ree
site that time law should be clear and explicit oil
that head. In the year 1816, a Committee was 814
pointed, with instructions to inquire into the elm,
cation and the state of the lower orders, and tit:
report their opinions thereon. Although aol';
powers were bestowed on the Committee I°'
the purposes of their ievestigation, it vrLIS
never dreamed that their Chairman should
some a power which he had not, and
the House never granted, namely to summori
before them the Dean and Chapter, amid MA4ters
of Westniiester—the Master of the Charter Ilea'
e
and of Eton—en order to call upon them tor lb°
State 01 their funds, and the nature and ite,oge
meat of their respective Institutions. In this ex°
traorditiary as,ump ion or power, never tithid
the contemplation of the Heine, all the o"blic4
seminaries, and all the charitable inslitoioo-
througheut the country, were to be included. II
does so happen, that the Report of the Coron'it:
tee in the year 1816 contains an account 0' ",1
examination of the Eton and Westmiusters z4l't
therefore it might be easily referred to as a d"ce
merit of authority. But the Right Hole
Clot
tleman (Mr. Peel) would not even now bci;e,vl,
that the, Committee were fully invested °I:-
that power. He should not dwell so P'
timely on the transactions now alluded
were it not to, repel in some measure Oe
prejudices of the Gentlemen on the other sill
of the Hoese, who were always eager to prrfre
complaints against the Gentlemen on the
where he (Mr. Peel) and his friends generallyt
occupied. Tile Committee llat he wes area, AbOti
to speak of was that of ItilB. The House,
hoped, would pardon him tor reading the •rier°'
4
of that Committee. For the inure easy illest°,
lion of what he had to say, he would take the
berty of dividing them into three classes, viz. (Os!
who might be termed, independent ,men, soto‘"
times voting for, and sometimes against Goeere
went ; those who cesoferred with the 1-3oo"l'fi
able Gentleman, anti those who voted in favour" „
Government. In attempting this classificatioo/6
he meant to impute no blame to any Honoaral,
Member. They were all actuated by their fee.,
ingS and attachments, and therefore their ."-
3pective pursuits were so tar honourable.—(ge;
hear !)-1n the first class were Mr. Berclay,,'"4
T. Acland, Mr. NVilberforce, Mr. Babington,
uric
Mr. Burrell ; in the second, consisting of tb~
Honourable Member's friends, amounting to 11
were Mr. J. Smith, Mr. H. Smith, Mr. A. Sel'if,:°
Mr. Mann, MrJAhercrombie, Sir James Mackin
nosh, Sir Francis Burdett, &c.
Mr. BRoUGHAM, while the names were beint
read, requested that the Right Hon. Gentlen'sj
would read them slowly, that he might be enable
to take them down.
Mr. PEEL replied, that he understood the 9°41'4
cam, but, as it did not touch him, be was tea
to comply. be
Mr. BeotiGnere denied that be meant to
sarcastic : it was necessary that he should be °tile
Dished with the names, it the question were 10'r,
to depend upon their political propensities.---(1
der, order.) lie
Mr. It. PERI. then resumed his speechee-
se
came to the third class of the Committee-411:v.
Members who generally voted in favour of is
vernment, namely, the Horatii of the Gove't-,
ment, viz. Sir James Shaw, Mr. Aldermito
kips, and Sir Wm. Curtis.—(Much laughter 4..
Mr. R. Peel again affirtned, that he meant t(' ties
simulate improper
,motive to the Hon. Gentne
men whose names he had now noticed—more ear,,
cially the Hon. Gentlemen whom be had tiese
nated as the Horatii of Government. All tbai
meant was, that it the Gentlemen on the 01110,0
site side took the liberty of pointing out by ilo.
particular individuals on the side to which be jot
longed, he (Mr. Peel) bad an equal right to if do
out by name certain individuals un the side 0'

Hon. Member.
Mr. Bootrour am, it was believed, spoke to °r of
Mr. PEEL resumed.—These were the nalne!,,
the Committee of the year 1818. Various opiuTeapt
were. entertained before the Committee prese6,-og
their Report. From that important- doentti-0
they derived some useful lnsons. A Bill n-er.
!nought in for the appointment of Commissi°'
to enquire into the state of the Charitable IPaste
onions for the purposes of It %%1'51'1;0
posed that the Hon. Member (Mr. Brotighsid•
should name the Commissioners. lo
stance, there could be no want of candour no" el)
part of the. Gentlemen with whom he (Mr. Lgoso
had the honour to act. In that Bill a claoeence,
brought, stating in .substance—" that if any
son summoned before the .Commissioners 60,
0
neglect to. produce any paper or document, :Ole
posed to be necessary for the information ' 0,
Commissioners, tliat then the said Coninlissi(nieryi
or any two of them and their Clerk or secte!-Ipc
may issue an order for the commitment
.tverf
offender to any' prison in the kingdom' 1."
Gentleman of a liberal mind would readys°.

th
Pr
et

tleo •
hits was -very extraordidary end a very no-
Precedented -power ; indeed it might be deemed
ail Ithconstittitional act. The punishment
7;1 for this violation of the power of the Commis-
:toners was totally unprecedented. If, for in-
tit4nee, an offence was committed in Cornwall,
Lie person so offending might he sent to Eilin-
uttr gh
le
Castle. The Right Hon. Member not
°nl9 condemned the grant, hut the exercise of
!11elt extraordinary powers. Bat it bad not been
.11, the contemplation of the framers albeit femoes
elapse that a case might arise in welch the heads
`? those who had the management of the semi"-
were bound not to reveal certain documents
regulations left by the founders of these Insti-
-I"tions. This was the case of St. John's College,
4,
''"f•ord. When persons who came before the
I';'°,ffraissioners under •siteli circemstanceS were
oind by oath not to dividee what were consi-
,lltred as official documents, the Bill had nor pro-
-
\rWell for such an alternative. A similar case had
tiecurred at Eton College, where their statutes had
peen refused the inspection of the Commissioners.
~isaPPointed in this attempt, application was
'4de to the Museum for copies of the statutes,
Vehich were obtained and prioted. The following
11",,estions passed after the printing of the statutes
`R•,‘el• to the Rev. Peter Hind—" Are the statutes
AEtat) College open to public inspection ? No
re,lvY ptinted No.—Have. you seen a copy
le (nem printed from documents in the British
4altiseum ? Yes. They are incomplete !"—(Hear,
earT
~
te near publish such papers might he
lehe'it very improper ; but, if published at ail,
teY Ought certainly to have been done in a cur-
(l;e•t f°tlll—in a form simple and unadorned. But
i's did not satisfy Gentlemen. To these printed
miteteinents were added auttotatimie of consitleia.
lac length,givittg any thing but a fair represen-
fails i
n.
en If, however, the statutes. which were in
Ise. lareti were published, they ought to have ap-
iih„ were published,
any ennotations or marginal read-
tilt's) tending to pervert the senee and mea .ing of
e °Fieital institutors. But another extraordi-
arY part of the conduct of the Commirees could
tint
be passed over in silence. In June ISIS, Par.
was dissolved, consequently the powers of
lii•tithe Committee were dissolved also. Not.
1-istandieg the authority of the Committee
i„)ats thus completely annulled, the Chairman, and
StiI,4"t"IIIY witli the consent of that Committee,
i,f'e'•,ll a letter to be sent, dated from the House
ter
e:orumous the. 10' of July, about a mouth ate
lir, the dissolution of Path +mem, trarked by
ter: t'sr"li• ue tetormation to the said
_thattaolotti,e ,mmittee which had been
tbe ilisselution of Perliament —respecting
.4.‘:l(ttdticatioti avid manageinent of certain schools.
"'her letter eves sent by the same unauthorized
• thnritY, slated troth the same piece, and about
)1,-i",tne date, with a request to the same effect.—
• letter was signed i George ham," one
• he Cloks of the House of Common:, But,
of t
,c,p"tettled with these violations of the tisiiee
144,""liarnent, 'here was a third letztr, in time
rs,e of the present Session, dated the 29th
pn''
~ 1819, by order of the same worthy
~01• man, stating in substance—" It would be
ee 1 n
",erriht; a essential obligation to favour me
ji)ii:a every information in your power on the
itifon “f ed. cation adopted by you, addine to yonr
stte-11114tion a statement of the number of chil-
attentline the &Imlay schools." As the
pew,
the Committee hail not been renewed
1, tht:. filament they were acting without any an-
rineel'Y' anrl, consequently, had fee over-rated the
,r.ters Wanted to them.. In allusion to the eon-
-111:i Of the Hon. Member, he (Mr. Peel) said
to: the Hon. Member had made use of St. Bees
1./_°°l to assist in his electioneer tig adventure.
(Mr. Peel) did not pretend to say but that these
but the
might arise from mistaken motives.
bucti'ell %vete so extraordinary as to demand public
arsLe• He offered these observations on the
quo .
Ce„ ," of rectitude, without attributing to any
tha"filetnars improper causes. He bad thus di._
tiretssed liis duty ; was telly persuaded that the
los "mat-tees now brought forward a most dan-
e,ero
. res_e, recedent ; and, so far as lie was inte-
br.7t, 11 as *k Member of Parliament, he entered his
stu •
-agAtost it.—(l-lean, bear !)
pre T• Brownie eer confessed himself totally no-
th, IP",r,ed for the sodden and unexpected attack of
sAckught lion. Gen Liman. But he was not at-
e "l'ine, but the Gentlemen whose confi-
seee ,
lead had the honour of enjoying, and who
en-°-Operated with him in that Committee so
vier" emokinned by lie Right Hon. Gentleman,
et all at once brotight before the public tribu.
1,
I° answer for their conduct.—(Hear, bear !)
Ilte,"!„ however, somewhat unfair, that the Right
fleen'"enLlemers had chosen the absence of his
1116 I of the Committee to make his assault on
ttior character. They were extraordinary charges,
':flealled for by the motion now before them,
was met ely the ehird reading 'of the
of ti Ile had heard much of the irregularities
House, and be himself conteseed that
tututtle instances he might have been irregular ;
1),4 during the time he had sat in that House. he
tutu °ever witnessed so irregular, if not so wan-
td
~"0,1 so unprovoked an attack. But surround-
, ittirthe was with difficulties of vast magstitede,
,loprepared as he was for the combat, be
foreU tlOt. resist the chall. nese, He would
one his
to Opposition to every ohstecle, enter on his
,„frtit won. he ref used to meet the
fighteoce
butt, rion. Gentleman, the .Public would attri-
litre " to tear. it would he immediately Said,
it
it_ ate serious charges mole by a steady man—
of business—a man of the first information
4,_:,(1(1)) brings forward unties, dates, and every;
l"! c
ity which can apparently corroborate facts.
ce'pltle7 be not met, and met with courage and
‘roultl Y eqeal to the defence, most observers
Re conclude that they were unanswerable.
Rteitt_t.hoer,ef?re hoped for the patient indul-
vi4di'e t the House, while he encleavotieed to
Wee, atttes himself, not forgetting, in some de-
nte , le aspersions attempted to be thrown
the
en with whom lie had acted
ail
Ito :11:,eoit,L.`.)!I:ttit'ittee• He (Mr. Brougham) had
01,
thethatt lie would prove to the
_tut olelouse, that lie WEIS right, and
tio".l`::futts
ra.l)l limitable Gentleman was wrong.
gt 1,1011: le Member then went into an
__lirough the . vindication of his. conduct, tracing it
very
n. ',lSt and present Parliament. The
" %lit* if not the seco6tl night of the

present Session, he hdd intimated his intention to
move for the revival of the. Committee, with the
usual powers. It was Within the recollection of
the House, that on the very same night a Right
Honourable Gentleman (\lr. Canning) gave no-
tice, in the absence of a Colleague, that it was
the intention of his Noble Friend (Lord Castle-

. .
reagh) to submit to the I-louse a motion of a
specific nature regarding the Charitable' Institu-
tions for the purposes of Education, and which
might entirely supersede the proposition which he
(Mr. Brougham) had in view. The result coo-
firmed this announcement. Some time after, when

the arrangement had been matured,down came the
Right Hon. Gent. to silence hint (Mr. Brougham}
by a proposition for the appointment of a Com-
mittee. He (Mr. Brougham) then manfully and
openly stated his objections. So much for the
delay. '1 he Honourable Member then entered
into a minute examination and criticism of

the various assertions and argumems advanced
by the Right lion. Gentleman ; and, in order to
refute them, dwelt on their nstnre and tendency
for a considerable time. lie ridictiled the pnlicy
of postponing the attack ill nearly the close of
the Session; when the Right Hon. Membor had
many opportunities dining their numerous sit-
tings
_to have gratified his wishes. When he saw
what he had termed an inroad, an invasion, of the

rights aod pr vileges of Westminster—of Eton—
ot the Charter-house—be (Mr. Brougham) was
astonish, d that he had not come forward., It was
the Gentlemen of Winchester who had pleaded
the obligation of their oath ; those of Eaton had
done no such thing, hut hart fully answered every
question, and allowed extracts to be made trout
the statutes. As to the Committee havingeon-
tinued to exercise their power for some time after
the dissolution of Parliament, he contended

that was the regular practice at the close
of each Session.: it that practic, were not adopt-
ed. and papers printed during the recess, it
would he impossible to send forth the emir-
MOll6 mass of Parliamentary documents produced.
As to time letter which he had been charged with
sending in his capacity of Chairman of the Com-
mittre, atter the Committee bad ceased to exist,
it could not have been taken in that light. It had
be.'n written, not as Chairman, but in his indivi-
dual capacity, requesting time Parochial Clergy, if
convenient, to favour him .vith infoimation re-
specting time number of children educated in un-
endowed seminaries. That was not the language
of a (Main:lan, who generally had hut two Par-
liame.mtH-y ways of expressing himself, either
'' it is ordef4d," or " yon are requited." He
apologized tO the House for detaining them so
long, as he had done it only on compulsion, for
he had been complete,y taken by surprise on
heariog the unexpected charee brought against
him and the Memuers of the Committee. It he
had omitted noticing any point, he would gladly
recur to it when his physical powers should be
less e\hanste(4, for he challenged the most minute
enquiry into all the proceedings of the Com-
mittee.

Mr. SHELDON was a Member of the Committee,
and defended its conduct as well as that of its
Chairman (Mr. Brongliam), which be considered
to have been perfectly proper in all points.
MI V FITzGEtt ALD complained of the tone and
manner in which the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man had replied to the speech of his Right Hon.
Friend (Mt. Peri). He contended that no other
portnnity had offered itself before the present
to enable his Ris!ht Hon. Friend •to make the
statement which he had now made. He main-
tained, !hat atter the intention expressed by the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman to attend this night
in order to propose an alteration in the Bill, and
after his own publications on - the subject, that
Hon and Learned Gentleman could not complain
of baying been taken by surprise. He then de-
fended at considerable length the statements of
his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel), and combated
the arguments brought lomat"l against them
He was of opinion that the Hon. and 4iirned
Gentleman had by no means justified hilliselt for
havtlig exercised the authority of the Committee,
atter the Committee had ceased to exist, rind writ-
ten a letter calling for information which he no
longer had a right to demand. •
Mr. F. DOUGLAS lamented the turn which the
discussion had taken ; it was not, however, to be
attributed to his side of the House. He contend-
ed, that if his Hon. and Learned Friend had dis-
played less indignation, he would not have done
Justice to himself ; but the Right_Hon. Gentleman
opposite had not the same excuse. What had
called for his speech—a speech of violence and
-acrimony's Certainly not that with which his
Hon. and Learned Friend had introdnced his
atuendmunt, for it was one of the most temperate
ever tittered in Parliament. But the Right Hon.
Gentleman seemed to have come down with a dia-
tribe long prepared. With respect to the conduct
of his Hon. and Learned in the Chair, it had been
marked by the greatest moderation and impar-
tiality that he bad witnessed in the Chairman of
any Committee.
Lord CssTeettesGts acknowledged, that nothing
which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said
in his opening speech, was of a nature to excite
the displeasure of his Right Hon. Friend behind.
That Hon. and Learned Gentleman had in fact
admitted, with a degree of moderation and candour
which did him credit, that peculation and abuse
did not form the characteristics of all the charitable
Institutions of the country, and that his Majesty's
Government were not disposed to screen anuses.
But it could not be totally forgotten that he had
made widely different representations last year, and
cast the most severe imputations both on the .Mi-
nisters and the Chatities themselves. He was
not sot prised, therefore, that his Right Hon. Friend
should have suffered his feelings to be roused by
what had passed .before, connected as he was
with the Universities. With respect to the limit
of the, inquiry, he thought it ought so be ob-
structed by no consideration of the attendant ex-
pence. 'The public mind ought to be satisfied
that the charitable funds were applied as origi-
nally intended by the donors; but they would
deceive themselves and those they represented if
they were to hold out an expectation that the
public could ever be repaid from the funds the
charge which might thus be created. The annual
expence might be 18 or 20,0001. and the total
amount must depend on the number of years

through which. the inquiry might be continued.
jle, however, thought the money would be well
laid olst anti he wiener] the House to make up
its Mind, as be did, to throw the expence on the
public. it was hard that he should now have to
defend a clause introduced last year by the lion.
and Learned Gentleman himst.lf. He thought,
though the clause he referred to was not Stich as,
left wholly to himself, the Honourable and Learn-
ed Gentleman won,ld have proposed, yet, had it
heen very immot al or dangerous, he would nut
have become its author ; and the circumstances
under which he had at first thought it expedient
to bring it forward st:11 existed in all tl.eir.ori-
ginal force. lie showed that the Court of
Chancery, though it had taken upon itself to en-
quire into the administration of funds, where that
duty had not been given to some other body,
hail never gone the length of acting such a part
where the do or who had the ri4itt of controlling
the property as he thought fir, had appointed spe-
cial vilitors. The present Bill he thought an
improvement on the Bill of last Session, and he
would abide by the provision which the Honour-
able and Learned Grortleman lt.;1 then recom-
mended, and he hoped' the House would do the

5a Me.
Mr. PEEL, as some personal allusions had been
!woe to him, was desirous of beir, indulged with
permission to offer an explanation. The Ho-
nourable and Learned Gentleman had announced
it to be his intention to make a motion, on which
he (I.lr. Peel) had intended to speak, and he .sop-
posed it was by accident that he bad sat down
without doing so. He hafted, however, if not
strictly in order, in the peculiar situation in which
he stood, he might be permitted-to proceed.
Mr. SMITH spoke to order.—As no new ques-
tion was before the Howe, he conceived the
Right Hon. Gentleman had no right to speak
again.
Mr. BROUGHAM thought he might have misled
the Right Hon. Gentleman. To gain an oppot-
tnnity of making a second speech he had inteud-
ed offering a motion to the House, but had
omitted to do so. He was then ready to wake it,
to give the Right lion. Gentleman the right of
speaking.
Lord CAsTLEREAGH sail, the Bill could be read
a third time, and then a new question would
»rise, on which his Right Hon. Friend could

spe k.
The SPRAKER had not called on the Hon., and
Learned Geetleinan, for his motion could not
then be received. If the Bill • were now read a
third lime, the whole subject would amain he open
to discussion when the new clauses should be
prophet), which the House knew were to be
moved.
Atter a few words from Mr.V. FITZGERALD, the
13111 was reed a third time.
Mr. BROUGHAM. then moved a clause, which
went on an application from the Trustees of Cha-
eikeble leetitetions, to g,ve the Master of the
Rolls or the Vice Chancellor the power of •mak-
ing an order in certain CHSCS which should be final,
enless the party agetieved made an appeal within
a limited period to the House of Lords.
Mr. PEEL said; he wished on the present occa-
sion to confine what he lied to say to that which
was necessary for his own vindication. The
charges brought against him by the flononreble
and Learned Gentleman, and by the Honourable
Gentleman, were not consistent with each other,
es while the former said the bill of indictment,
which he was pleased to call it, which he had prefer-
red against the Committee, had been prepared with
the assistance of his friends, who were ready to sup-
port it : the latter considered it to be such a
character, that it was impossible for it to be
countenanced on either side of the House. It
was complained, that to accuse 'the Committee as
he bad done was unfair and tincandid in that
House; He had thought it would be regarded as
any thing but candid and fair if be had not said
what he had to say in that 1-louse rather tliau out
of it. He retained,, after all that lie bad heard,
the sentiments with which he had entered it, and
derived satieraetiou from the reflection that he
had done his duty. It was complained thet he
had not sooner objected to those proceedings on
the. part of the Committee of which he disapprov-
ed, instead of waiting till two or three years had
passed since the appointment of the Committee.
He then, from a reference to the dates of the re-
ports which had been matte, combined with other.'
circumstances, showed that in four instances out of
five, where he had complained of the Committee,
he had had no opportunity of doing so before the
present 'Session. He might, to be sure, have
made a distinct motion on the subject early in the
Session, but the same circemstance wit kit had in-
duced the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to put
off his motion, had inclined hint (Mr. Peel) to
abstain from taking such a step, namely, the no-
tice given by his Noble Friend of the present
Bill. He might further be allowed to remark,
that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had been
absent during a great part of the present Session,
and with what reason might he not have complained
had the subject been brought forward in Iris ab-
sence ? If he bad waited till the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman could be present, let it riot be imputed
to him that he had purposely lurked with his
complaints till some of the Acts which were the
subjects of them had been, merged io
Notwithstanding his disclaimer had been alleady
rejected, he would repeat it, he imputed Ito itn-
proper motives to the Committee, but be thought
they had exceeded their powers. T. the question
which had been put in the Committee to Dr.
Wood and to two other Gentlemen of Cambridge
respecting the use which might be made of the
Patron's influence, and the rumours that might
he afloat on the subject, be certainly objected.
thought it would have been infinitely. better
had those questions, and the insinuations con-
nected with them, been spared altogether.
fle
dirt not deny that he might feel a romantic attach-
ment to the University of Cambridge. He was tinder
ohligetionstothatthriversity,whichmadeit a sacred
duty, it the Committee had exceeded their powers,
to defend it from unmerited attacks. Par from
thinking; it a charge against hint that he did so, he
should feel that tie might justly be charged with a
dereliction of duty, if in such a case lie were to
avoid stepping forward in behalf of the University
with which he was so intimateli connected. With
respect to the twteletters which bad been serAten

as from t

ofmnitteq a

ia:llnt

,en

prorogned, .he was described to have Leld very
strong langnage.. He had been represented by the

lion. and Learned Gentleman to say, that this A'tl3
treason to 11:e Constitution" and a "scandalous
act." He had used no such word', but witnessing

the accumulation of those acts to which he could

not but object, be thought it right to,call the atten-
tion of the House to them, as it had appeared to hin►
that they might be drawn into a -dangurous prece-
dent. The Committee had no tight to sent)

ters (their subject's were Comparatively unitnpor.
rant), round a -month alter the prorogation of
Pad.;Ament. BUt this be had, after all, only

viewed as an inadvertency. He also disapproved
of the manner it which the S!attnes of Eton, and

Winchester bad been required. On a view of the
hole ease, he regretted wit the he ,b,id

taken on ihe present occasion, denied that it vrtis
at all connected With pariy feelings, and assured
the 1-loose, that than this there .was no charge
atm he! shonld be more anxious to repel.
Mr. liaouGnAm understood a charge to have
been preferred against the Committee for calling-
for the Winchester and Eto-tatntes,in con-

temp of an oath they had taken. The NVioches-
ter Fellows urged their oath, mud their stwotes

were not p►oduced. The Eton Statutes had been
produced, as no Snell oath had been Wien tht.re.
Air. PEEL. had ►►►rant to make the charge sop.
posed, as he ontlertood ►he oath taken at 'Wm-
chester was also taken at Eton, ghat the Soitotts

should not be produced but to those connected

with the Institution.

Mr. BROUGHAM ~ffered some further remarks in
vindication Or tie Committee. _ _.

1111.. ‘Vir BEnrorcE thought what bfld been stat-
ed by the Eight Hon. GeutletnAti d d riot cnm•

pletelyinsilty hint tor not sooner giving .nine 11)-
111111111011 of the chtirtze he tovant to bring 4g4init

the Committee

The coor<<• of i:xnutiopition 05-

,leered to, like the examinations to tshich %vita
nesses were subjected to in the Courts of Law,
might at first seem a subject of just complaint,
but, rightly considered, the one would weigh as
lit le against the solid advantages of this inquiry,
as the other did against the impartial administra-
tion of justice : he strongly c Wed upon the
[louse, by tf)e regard they haul for their own cha-
racter, to make the inTiiry as complete as possible.
SmY'rn (of Cambridge) was not di.posed
to object to the state of the University of Cam-
bridge being inquired into, as he was satisfied the
result would redound to its honour 5 but had be
attended the meetings of the Committee, he should
have opposed the inquiries made by. the-Com-
mittee respecting certain charities in Lincoln, and
also the questions so otter alluded to, that had
been put to Dr. Wood.
Mr. J. Sairrn bad never seen less of party spirit
in any Committee than had been shown in the
Comthittee whose proceedings bad this night been
brought under their consideration. Though in
the list of names on the Committee a majority had
appeared to have been taken from that (the Op-
position) , side of the Eloise, the Gentlemen on
the other side formed ti:e majority of those who
attended. Thousands of letters had been received
by the Committee shortly after their appointment,
w'aieh, if laid before the House, wottld prove that
a more impcirtaut and necessary inquiry had
never been instituted by. Parliament. To his
dying day he should be proud of havitig 'beers
a member of the Education ComMittee. He
was a friend to, inquiry, and generally where
there yeas a disposition to hide the truth Intro
the public, ft and and mischief were behind. He
1,e,(1 before stated shortly after the subject was
bronght forward io the House, that the Qoakera
would feel great seistactiour at finding their semi•u
naries included in the inquiry about to be set on
foot. Iu his opinion this anxiety on their part did
them great honour.
Mr. HoLFottn. said the Hon. and. Learned Gen•
tieman had no great claim to impartiality for
naming bins on the Committee ; his name had in
fact been mentioned by the hte Speaker when the
Commi, tee was formed. But he had not thought
it contained many men of learning fit to conduct
such an inquiry, and had not attended its meetingi.
Mr. Bata/ono' remarked on the manner its
which the Committee had just been spOken of
It appeared that the learning. of Sir S. RomillY,
Sir J. Mackintosh, Mr. Smyth (of Cambridge),
Mr. Wilberforce, Mr. W L:aulb, and other dis-
tinguished personages whom he might name,
were not sufficient for the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Holford )—The late 'Speaker might originally
have suggested the name of that Hon. Member,
but he had subsequently proposed it.
The Clause was then agreed to.
Mr. BROUGHAM wished it to be understood, that
now, as when he brought the subject forward, lie
believed there was much negligence to complain
of, and many abuses that ought to be corrected.
If he were Wrong, it he ought to have taken a
lower tone, so also Ought the present Lord-Chan-
cellor and the late Lord Kenyon, for from them
he bad taken the substance of the statement he had
formerly made." He was anxious that it should
not he supposed he had at all lowered his tone.—
lie moved 'to omit in the body of the Bill, the
exemption to be granted to Institutions which had
special 'visitors.
sic W. scoTT opposed the Amendment.—lll
knew no set Of men who had any tight to super-
sede the Commissioners appointed by the founder
of-the Charity. The other course would be a
total suppression of the office of Visitor ; or
would make it that of a mere apparitor to the
CommisSioners, The appointment of a Visitor
may.not have been judieibusly chosen ; but theist
it Was a sort of paternal institution to provide ,or
the peace of societies.. And with this view it was
better that the remedy or benefit of s'.ch an insti-
*totion shook' be tardy, than that it should be al-
together suppressed.
Mr. SCARLErr said it did not seem to him that
the amendment now proposed would go so far as
the Right lion. Gentleman who spoke last seemed
to think.
After a few words from Mr. Bathurst, Mr. Patti
lett, and Mr. Ellison, the House divided—
Ayes
Nees ... 76
Majority eguinst the Amendment • ---0
The Bill was then passed.
On the Report of the Customs CoaFolidation,
Bill, Mt-, Al. StimNF.a (.:omplained that the date fot