The Sun.
London, England, 1826-03-11 00:00:00

SUPPLY.

The House then went into a Committee of Supply. ,
Mr. HERMES moved a vote of 420,000/. for the charge of
the Army EXtraiirdinaries of the year.
Mr. HUME: said,' that part of this sum went to the sup.
port of those Colonies on the Gold Coast where there had been
war, of which parliament had never received the least infor-
mation•either. as'to its cause or Its-result. Thousands of lives
had been lost, and great sums of money expended, and when
that was the case, he thought thellouse ought to pause before.
they grunted more, in the absence of information. lie should
bike every opportunity of opposing the keeping up of thetie
• Colonies, and he therefore could not consent to expend money,.
in building churches and other establishments, us if it was in.
tended to hold permanent possession of the place. There were
some items in the estimate 'which required explanation.. here
was a charge of 14,0004 for the conveyance of specie. Upwards
of 1;1001. was to be given to Captain Hope of the Brisk, for
carrying a quantity of silver to Ireland. lie did nut know why
a Captain of the Navy should he paid this additional sum for
his service, performed.in a King's ship. He did not see why
the specie might not have been carried by waggon. He thought
it might have been sent by the usual conveyances without in.
curring this extra charge. Upon the whole he was ready to
admit that this was the must satisfactory estimate that be had
ever seen in that House.

.....
ES said, that the explanation he could give to
the Honourable Member would rather add to his satisfaction
than diminish it. Several of the items occurred here, because
they could not be estimated in time for the Army Estimates.
The charge for the conveyance of specie was an old established
usage, and formed a part of the remuneration of the service.
But ie lion. Member did not perhaps know that the sum puid
was not only for the service of carrying the specie, but for the
risk which the officer took upon himself. It lately happened
that by some accident a deficiency was found upon a quan-
tity of specie at the end of the voyage, and the officer wits
obliged to account for it. The charge was, theirefore, a kind
of insurance, as well as a remuneration, for the service per.
formed.
Sir R. AVILSON observed, that in the treaty lately con-
cluded with the Brazils for abolishing the slave trade on the
coast of Africa at the end of four years, he saw no article for
regulating the number of slaves to be Wood on board one
vessel during that limited existence of the traffic. Whoever
was acquainted with the horrible situation of the unfortunate
creatures who were crowded Into those vessels, so as to occa-
sion great loss of life and indescribable sufferiug, would feel
the necessity of some arrangement In this respect, and he hoped
for the sake of huthanity that it would receive the consideration
of Government.

The resolution was agreed to. •
The next was fora sum of 300,76111. to defray the charge of
the commissariat Department. •
Mr. H UME sa►d, that last year this Estimate was 369,0001.,
the year beflire 340,0001., and the year before that IKON/.
Thus they were returning in this department tia well as in the
Army Estimates generally, to war expences rather than those
which should exist in a time of peace. He also complained of
the increase of the number of Commissaries in the Cimadas, and
said that there were too many in the Colonies generally. In
Ireland he saw there was u department of waggoners, which he
was informed was quite useless. He wished to know what
these waggoners were.
Mr. DERR LES said that the difference in the Estimate from
that of last year, arose from the diffilence in the price of pro.
visions at the time when the last Estimate was made. It would
be recollected that at the latter part of the last year there was a
considerable rise in the price of bread, meat, and forage finr the
troops at home. This had made the expenditure exceed the
estimate of the year. The present estimate had not been made
upon the supposition that the high prices would continue through
the year, but upon the actual expenditure of the year past.—
With respect to the Commissariat department, he could speak
from experience in his own person, having paid much attention
to the subject, and he assured the House that nothing could be
more unwise than a reduction of the number of Commissaries.
It was true that the number had been reduced in Canada last
year by the Treasury, but representations from the GovernorS of
forts, and from all those beat calculated to judge of such mat-
ters, had induced them to restore the former number. In Ca-
nada there were many' out stations where stores and money
required to he taken care of, and the expenee of Commissaries
was more than covered by the exercise of their duties. The

number of these Gentlemen at' Sierra Leone was increased by a
most lamentable cause. ".Ntf. Gentleman could be there ibr
more than two months without .being disabled from service
by illness; it was therefore necessary that two should be em-
ployed.
Mr. T.-HUTCHINSON'tiaid that the House had just now
heard from the HOn. Secretary to the Treasury, that no Gentle-
man could remain two months in the Colony of Sierra Leone
without being exposed to illness which rendered him incapable
of service, and in all probability to the loss of life. 'What, then,
could be. the infatuation which led his Majesty's Ministers to
keep up an establishment at such an expence of human life.
He knew not how they could answer it to their country and
their God ; and lie solemnly appealed to them either to say
they meant to abandon it, or to state the reasons why it ought
to be held.

Mr. W. HOrtTON said, that the Hon. Gentleman seemed
to suppose the Government to have preserved this colony for the
mere abstract love of colonies. But the Hon. Gentleman must
be aware that there existed a solemn compact on the minor Par-
liament, to retain it for the propose of carrying the great mea-
sure of abolition into effect. There were at this time 18,000 li-
berated slaves at Sierra Leona, who must all be abandoned with
the colony. He admitted that the question was one which re-
quired serious consideration, but they must look at all the facts
connected with it, and not at detached parts. A commission
had been sent out for the purpose oe collecting full information,
and when their report was before the House, they should be able
to come to a decision. At all events, there could be no sudden
abandonment of a Colony established under such circumstances
and for such a purpose.

Mr. BERNAL thought the Colony might have been esta-
blished in a better situation on the coast. He regretted that
the House had not an opportunity of discussing so important a
question upon some other occasion than an estimate for the al-
lowance to the Governor and. Officers of the Colony. That
question would embrace two considerations ;—first, whether
they ought to preserve any station at all upon the Gold Coast ;
and, secondly, whether Sierra Leone was the best situation for
it. Ile was a sincere abolitionist, he feared that this enormous
annual expence, and constant drain of' human blood, were
crificed without producing any proportionate effect in prevent.
ing the traffic in; slaves. Ile apealed to the Right Hon. Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs, whether there was not now an accumu-
talon of acts of horror and aggression carried on upon those
co a sby the ships of other nations. lie trusted the Right Hon.
Gentleman would have the kindness and the condescension to
state, at his request, whether repeated applications and remon-
strances had hot been made to the Court of France upon this
subject, without producing any satisfactory result.
Mr. Secretary CANNING said, that in answering the ap-
peal of the Hon. Gentleman, he must confess that all he had
stated as to the difficulty of getting other rowers to co-operate
in the abolition of the Slave Trade was certainly true up to a
late period. But the French Government had, within a short
time, shewn itself disposed to act with sincerity in carrying it
into effect. There was one practical instance of such a dispo-
sition, which he would mention to the House. Information
having been riven to the Government of France that a slave
ship was fitting out in the port of Nantz, it was seized and
condemned. This was 'ratifying, because the fact could no
longer he denied that the subjects of France were engaged in
the traffic. And as they had at laSt seized a ship of their own,
such a conviction would not only he created in the minds o'l
that. Government, but their attention would be awakesied to
similar conduct on the part of the subjects of other States. He
bad also to mention that they had at last obtained an order from
the Spanish Government to the Governor-General of Cuba,
which, if executed, would have a most beneficial influence.—
He could only say that they had with difficulty obtained the
order, and that if' carried into execution it must check the ,
oc-
currence of those scenes of horror upon the coast of Africa
which they so anxiously desired to suppress.
Mr. EVANS said a few words; in the course of which he
alluded to the great waste of life which took place in our Colonies.
Mr. 11UA1 P.: said, that the establishment of a Colony at Sierra
Leone had utterly failed as to.the benevolent object of extend-
ing civilization in -Africa. That Colony had cost the Nation
1,1100,0001. without, effecting the purpose for which it wax de-
sighed, or being able to produce Colonial articles enough for its
own consuniption.
Mr. EVANS said that the first thing to be done VlOB to put
an end to the existence of shivery. •• -
Mr. w.nowroN would admit that no civilization could
be effected in Africa until the Slave Trade was entirely sup-
pressed.
Mr. ,SYKES lamented the large expenditure of human life
in Sierra Leone ; but yet it was not greater than in other places.
In the West Indies, for instance, halfol our soldiers and officers
toationed there died within the short space of a single year, and
there was no articular lamentation then.
Mr. C. WILSON made a few observations as to the efforts
which had been made to impress the first rudiments of

Mr. HUM inquired, whether it was Intended to keep up the
Waggon Corps in Ireland, which he looked upon to be quite
useless;.

MY. W. HORTON said that the corps was necessary, as
contracts were not so easily managed in Ireland as in this coup-
, try, and the Commissariat were obliged to do much for them-
selves. A Waggon Corps was therefbre indispensable for the
conveyance of m►litary stores, specie, and•such other matters.—
The corps, however, was now considerably reduced. •
The Vote was then put and carried.
Upon the Vote for 21,000/. to make good the deficiency of
the• Fee Fund in the department of his Majesty's Secretary of
State for the Colonies,
Mr. II 01111: asked why there was so great an.increase in the
Colonial expellee.
Mr. W. HORTON said that it arose from an increase in the
business of the Colonial department, which rendered it neces.
silty to employ additional assistants; among others two Under.
Secretaries and. five Clerks.

111r.11UAIE further inquired as to the law-expences of that
department, and the mode of paying the Colonial Counsel.
Mr. W. HORTON said, that the emoluments of Mr. Ste.
phen, the Colonial Counsel, originally consisted in fees, chiefly
those paid for drawing Colonial Acts. Those fees were now
abolished, and a salary of 1,500/. a-year substituted, as Mr.
Stephen's entire time was occupied in the Colonial business, to
the exclusion of all other practice.
Mr. HUM E said, that Ministers occasioned the encreased
business in the Colonial Department by sending out Governors
to the Cape of Good Hope, who outragetl the feelings of the
people. Lengthened correspondences consequently became ne-
cessary, which, of course, gave additional employment to Go.
vernment. They ought to he aware that the frequent corn.
plaints which arrived. resulted from actual oppression, and the
most direct and simple mode of relief would be to recal the Go-
vernor. He attributed the encrease particularly to the Colonial
Secretary.
Mr. W. HORTON said that nothing could be more easy for
the Hon. Gentleman than to make such an assertion, and it was
equally easy' for him (Mr. W. Horton) to say that there was no
truth whatsoever in it. As to his plan for turning oft' every
Governor of whom the Colonist complained, however popular
it be, it certainly was not right. Ought a public functionary
to be removed from his office before the charges against him
had been heard and proved ?—(llear, hear, heart)—There
were no fewer than $4 Colonies, and could it be expected that
in so great u number such a Utopian system should prevail as to
preclude all complaints? He had never heard the lion. Gen.
deman meet a question in a statesmanlike manner, nor do any
thing but blame Ministers for their acts. The lion. Gentleman
himself had in the course of one year occasioned an expence of
40001, by requiring returns of papers relating to Colonial
riff:iirs. It was indeed but fair that Parliament should demand
information, but then expenses must necessarily follow and be
allowed for it:
Mr. HUM said, that he had for five years been trying to
procure relief for the lonian Islands f but the Colonial Govern.
meat took the port of Governors against the people.
Mr. Secretary CANNING thought that if the character of a
Governor were to be slurred by removal upon un unproved
charge, which lie could have no opportunity of refuting for two
years, it Would' discourage any lion. Gentlemen from under.
taking the duty. The Hon. Member for Aberdeen did not re.
but the charge of making sweeping accusations, for he had just
repeated One against Government.
The Vote was then put and carried.
On the Vote for 5,6751. as Compensation to Commissioners
Appointed to inquire into the collection and management of the
Revenue in Ireland.
Mr. HUN! E inquired how long that Commission 'was to exist.
Mr. JIMMIES said that it was limited by Act of Parliament
to one year longer.
Sir J. NEWPORT eulogized the acts and objects of the
Commission.
The vote being put for 20,000/. to defray the expence of the
Penitentiary at Milbank,
Sir G. W. COCKBURN compleined of the severity which
prevailed in that establishment.
Mr. HOLFORD said, that if the lion. Member had visited
the establishment he would think otherwise. There was nothing
like solitary confinement there, the prisoners being, bought out
for the benefit of air and exercise four tittlesAday.
Sir G. W. COCKBURN said that if so t< reform must have
taken place in the system, for wheribe last visited the Peniten •
dory, the prisoners were not brought out more than twice a
day, and even than they had not the tree enjoyment of exercise,
for they were led round in a ring.
Mr. HOLFORD would admit the Hen. Member to be so fa
tight, .`tact 4 considerable relaxation of diScipline had been in-
troduced.
Mr. HUME thought the expellee tillmVed fOr superintendance
,very great.. . •
Mr. HOLrORD said, that 1119404 the .prisopers were few,

the number of officers was complete, and it was impossible to
reduce the salaries at which they- had been engaged.
The Resolution being proposettfor 15,1204 for relief to Tou-
lonese and Corsican Emigrants,
,Dutch Naval Officers) St.
Domingo sufferers, and others;
Sir J. NEWPORT observed, that such annuitants never
died. In certain. annuities in Ireland, the name of Sir John
Mooie was folind a'year and a half after the battle of Corunna.
He did not oppose the claim of the annuitants, but he thought
it right to take care that the money voted for their use did not go
into the pockets of others.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
Public Annuitants were proverbially long lived. However, in
the present case, 50 had gone off last year, and the remainder
were considerably advanced in a green old age. They had a
claim on the gratitude and justice of this country for the services
which they had rendered.

Sir J. ItiEWPORT admitted their deserts: he only hoped
that care would. he taken in' the distribution of the money.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured him
that the money would not be diverted to an improper purpose.
Colonel DAVIES said that those persons, having fought the
battles of the Bourbons, ought to have been maintained at the
charge of Louis XVIII. He did not care how long they en-
joyed a green old age.
On the Vote for 3,0001. in aid of the National Vaccine Esta-
blishment,

Mr. HUME said, that this was the only establishment in
which gentlemen of fortune and respectability, accepted salaries.
Mr. PEEL said, that the number of physicians had been
reduced from eight to five, on the suggestion which the Hon.
Gentleman made last year. Five now received each 1001.
per annum. He differed from the Hon. Gentleman as to the
propriety of their pay, and Sutgeons for their attendance.—
Some of. them, he knew,' would very gladly resign both their
salary and situation. Vaccine Inoculation was very important,
as tending at least to mitigate 'the ravages of the Small Pox,
A great prejudice had been excited against it in the public
mind, because Ladies and other unskilful persons undertook to
inoculate. Another Establishment for Vaccination had been
broken up this year, and convinced of the importance of its
object, he gave the 3001. which had been saved out of the ex-
pences of the National Establishment, to replace the voluntary
one; 100/. was allowed for the supply of proper lymph, and
2001. more to remunerate six or seven qualified persons for their
trou We.

The other Estimates were then agreed to, the House re.
sumed, and the deport was ordered to be received on Monday.

- MUTINY BILL.
- Lord PALMERSTON moved the Order of the Day for
going into a Committee on the Mutiny Bill. The House ac-
cordingly went into a Committee upon the Bill.
The Noble Lord then moved the addition of two clauses to
the Bill. The first prohibited the billeting of soldiers upon the
accredited Consuls of Foreign Powers residing in our seaports.
This, he said, was due to .them-as a reciprocal favour, for our
Consuls were similarly exempted in foreign countries. The
second clause went to amend a part of the Game Laws, by
which a military officer was fineable in the sum of Id. fur
shooting on n manor without the consent of the Lord, while a
soldier committing the same act, was not himself punishable,
but a fine of 2/. was to be levied on the Colonel of his re-
giment.

Mr. HUME observed, that the words occuring in on one of
the clauses, namely, "all Negroes purchased by his Majesty,"
would lead one to imagine that the slave trade was permitted
by Act of Parliament.
Lord PALMERSTON said that there were Black Regi-
ments in the West Indies, the men of which were purchased,
and on being so purchased became free.
Mr. HUME inquired how many Negroes were purchased,
last year.
Lord PALMERSTON answered that the lion. Member
himself had voted for the enlistment of Black Regiments.
The first clause was then read a first time.
Mr. HUME said that there were many complaints against
the system of billetting soldiers in the neighbourhood of bar-
racks. When the people paid the expence of barracks, he
thought they ought to be saved the trouble and inconvenience
of entertaining soldiers. He had a letter from one who lately
lost 141. ss. within a short tune by the number of soldiers who
were billeted upon him.
Lord PALMERSTON said that barracks were generally pre-
ferred for the reception of soldiers, but when they were occu-
pied or out of order it became necessary to billet soldiers upon
innkeepers. It was a burthen, subject to which the latter un-
dertook their business.

Mr. II UM El ,:aid that innkeepers paid tuxes as well as other
people, and therefore ought not to be subjected to extraordinary
annoyance.

Tlie second clause havin been read a first time,
MH r. UM said, he should bring up a clause to put an
end to the practice of flogging soldiers. lie was not surprised
that soldiers brought up as they were, in the habit of seeing
their fellow creatures flogged and degraded, became hardened
and the worst of men. lie knew it had been said that the pu-
nishment,of flogging could not be dispensed with ; but from
what he had heard of foreign service, he was convinced it might
be done away. ' In Wurtemburg flogging was some time ago
carried on to the utmost extent ; but it had been done away
with. The men, by the practice of' flogging, were hardened;
but the moment an end was put to the lasts they became emulous
to avoid punishment, and the service was better pertimmed than
before. There were gradations of disgrace in Wurtemburg,wh ich
had proved sufficient to carry on the service witla•tt flogging.
That very circumstance Was enough to induce Parliament to
eh, away. with flogging. They were told in the Colonies that
the lash should not be a stimulus to labour, then, why say sol-
diers must be impelled to duty by the lash ? He wished to try
what could be done without flogging. The time of peace was
the time to try the experiment. lie wax satisfied from the course
adopted with respect to the East and West Indies, that every
thing calculated to irritate the feeling's of individuals, should
be avoided. Flogging soldiers and flogging slaves should
he abolished. The lion. Member concluded by proposing two
clause " And be it further enacted, that from anti
after the passing of this Act it shall not be lawful to inflict the
punishment of the lash, or flogging, on any soldier serving in
the army in time of peace." Secondly, "Be it further enacted,
that any soldier being guilty of any serious offence, arid being
convicted of' the same by a Court Martial, it shall be lawful
for his Majesty to transfer the service of the said person so con-
victed, to any of the Colonies," &c.—(Here the lion. Member
was informed from the Ministerial of the House, that his
second clause was useless, as the object the lion. Member had
in view was sanctioned by the law.]
Mi. HUME, in continuation, said, he should not of course
move it, if such a clause were unnecessary. lie then begged
leave to call the attention of the House to what had been done
in America. The practice of flogging bad prevailed in the
United States to a late period, but during the whole of the war
in 1812, it was abolished. The Hon. Membafrread the Act of
Congress, which abolished strii rem and flogging in the army,
and concluded by moving his clause.
Mr. JOHN SMITH said, he did not consider this a conve-
nient moment to bring on such a question. lie thought it would
have been better introduced in the presence of the Honourable
Baronet, to whom they were indebted for reform in the odious
practice alluded to by the Hon. Member for Aloptrose The
practice of flogging had been done away on the Continent, and
it might be said kangland alone was the country where the tor-
ment of flogging was continued. An officer whom he knew
had gradually abolished flogging in his troop. Military officers
all allowed that a man who was brought to the halberts once
was likely to be brought there a second time. It had not the
effect of producing reform, and if so, what use was it? All
who examined the present of Europe knew there had been an
ahandomrient of torture. Would any man in France at the
present day support the punishment inflicted on'a Damien* or
Ravillac? They would not. The punishment of whip ►ping at
the cart in England had lately excited compassion' and disgust.
Military men had not agreed upon the necessity of inflicting
the punishment of flogging. It was u fact that since flogging
had been less in the limy the men had been better in their
general conduct. He did not consider it a question for discus-
sion on reading the Mutiny Bill. He thought it ought to be
the subject of a specific motion. He should however support
the proposition of the Hon. Member for Montrose.
Sir R. FERGUSON also objected to the introduction of the
question on that occasion.

Sir JOtiggliViiiiiiS—" Having the honour to belong to
his Majesty's Military Service, and having in a course of years
had many opportunities to obiserve the effects of discipline in
the army, I shall trouble the House with a few observations
only, in order to justify the vote I shall give upon the present
occasion. I have afforded much consideration to this subject,
and the more I think upon It the more fortified am I in the
judgment I have formed, and in the correctness of the support
I gave this question, when at a former period the Honourable
Illember for Montrose divided the House upon it. It is my
opinion, Sir, that flogging in the army is an improper punish.
meet, and iet it out; it to be abolished; it is improper, becatue
the essence of a soldier being his honour, when that is tainted he
becomes degraded in his own estimation, and consequently is
incapable of heroic feelings; and it rarely answers the end for
which it is inflicted, that of improving the conduct of the offen-
der : it rather renders him desperate and callous, when he is
sensible that his shame cannot be wiped away, but that he will
carry an indelible mark of it on his person to the grave. Sir.
in all my experience I have never known a soldiers morals to be
mended by the infliction of the corporal punishment of the cat-
o'nine.tails. I say, Sir the arguments of those who advocate
this punishment are fallacious. Allowing, as every one must,
that no one is worthy to be a soldier who knows what fear is,
they endeavour to teach him this degrading feeling by holding
over him the punishment of the whip to deter him from the
commission of unsoldierlike conduct. Sir, jibe does not do his
duty but from the fear of the whip, he is unworthy of his post,

In these enlightenedAnys, it is Ant ash was in early times, the
army is no longer recruited from. the gaols—the acquitted felon
is no longer received ; 'the recruit, who is considered fit for no
respectable employment, the Man who is looked upon but as an
outcast from society, yet fit to recruit the ranks of the army is
no longer admitted, but in his stead is received the man who has
no blot in his character. It is not for me to eulogise an army,
whose valiant and heroic deeds spoke for themselves, and who
led on by able and experienced Generals, and fostered by the
care of a Royal Duke, who knows no other motive, and who
acts upon no other principle than that of consulting the good of
the service, whose heroic deeds, I say, have purchased the pre-
sent peace of the world. I ask, therefore, Sir, for this me-
ritorious army that boon which they are entitled to receive—l
ask for them an exclusion of that clause from the Mutiny Bill,
which authorises the punishment of flogging. lam aware, Sir,
that, as an humble individual, it is presumptuous in me to set
my opinion In opposition to those who will support this clause,
and who are more competent to form a better Judgment ; but
Sir, though the advocate is humble, the cause is, in my opi-
nion, just. I trust, therefore, the Hon. House will not suffer it
to fail, through the inadequacy of the advocate, but that they
will grant the boon I pray for, and give their support to the
Amendment of the Hon. Member.
General MURRAY said there was no class of men more alive
to humanity than Officers in the Army, It was natural to man
and pleasing to his nature, to have feelings of compassion, but
it was one thing to feel, and another to legislate upon feelings'
He knew of no armies ancient or modern which has been with-
out severe punishment. The punishment in the British Army,
was common in the Roman Army. But that was not the only
thing in which they resembled the Roman Army. They re-
sembled it in courage and glory. It had been said the punish-
ment had been abolished in America. The Gallant Officer
could not admit that America had an army. With respect to
France be could not admit that the argument of the Hon. Alm'
ber applied. The punishment was severe in the French army.
Having received a statement of the military punishments upon
the Continent from an officer in Germany, the Gallant General
read the document to the House. Previous to the existence of
the present Articles of War in Prussia, the punishment of the
cane was universal. An alteration had taken place. The whole
of the Prussian army was divided into two classes. Every
soldier entering the army belongs to the first class, and is Os
cmpt from c3rporeal punishment; but if he does not behave well
he is transferred to the second class, and becomes liable to
corporal punishment—that punishment is the cane. The
House should know that the latter punishment was never public.
Would the Honourable Member sanction in the armya that
secret punishment which savoured so much of the Inquisition ?
They had also other modes of punishment. In solitary con-
finement the soldier never could lie down. They had also a
stoppage of rations, and a punishment under which the soldier
stood with his face to a tree or some other object, for a nunit
of hours. That was the punishment in the Prussian Army. The
practice in the Saxon Army was this:--Death was inflicted by
shooting, and a disgrace was attached by delivering the body
to the hangman to be stretched on the rack. The second pu-
nishment was laying a man in forty-two pounds of iron ; b,
was confined in a fortress, and there made to work upon bread
and water. The Honourable Member had alluded to the
abolition of flogging in Wurtem berg. The punishment ofclor
solitary confinement was resorted to as in Saxony, but the,
*Dinah who underwent that punishment must be in a hen
sate. They were placed in a dark cell withoutbedding• They
were fastened to the wall, and their bodies confined In a bent
position. This punishment was for six or eight months au_
ration. The Gallant General mentioned these punishments t°
show there had been no abandonment of torture in the Conti-
nental nental armies. The discipline of the Hanoverian talnY.T:
been changed. After the re-occupation of Hanover in lgto
the
Duke of Cambridge abolished the punishment of the cane and
sabre, and substituted a modification of' the English
flogging. The mimber of lashes was limited to 300. Ganes Were
to be tried by a Court Martial. Punishments in Hanover heron
the return of the Duke of Cambridge had been inflicted without
a Court Martial. It had been suggested hy the finnettrllo,..
Gentleman who moved the clause, that the punishment of fl
of;'
gin should be confined to the Colonies. That was a system
which he should always oppose. There was nothing re
induced the British soldier to go to all parts of the Globe, Mau
that the knowledge that he should be treated abroad as he
be at home. The British soldier was not only to prepare'
face death in the field but to go to every clime and eenntrYre
The duty of the British service was not confined to the Isla'
e.
The arms of Great Britain extended to Asia, Africa, and 11.„/13d.
rica. Her empire was •in all parts of the globe. The anljt
ment proposed by the Hon. 1%l ember was said to be a boon.
army'
was no boon. Discipline was the heart and soul of 0,11
and if the clause was agreed to, it would be difficult tope?,„
systemere
serve discipline. He might ask from whence this booll„cad—e,,as
lie had seen the arm which gave it stretched out to hew' d ter
the soldier, to cut down the veteran establishment preParesecti
the soldier when he returned in want of assistence:,aaraed
gifts reminded him of the caution with which latocon
the munificence of the*
enemies of Troy, when he
ese'"'—
" Timeo DEIIIOO.I et donnprentes."
Mr. .1. SMITH explained. cars
Sir R. WILSON said, he had maintained for Man): Y.
however, to be continued in England, notwithstanding es,
that this punishment of flogging ought to be aboll. heti'
Ito
in
been abolished all over the world. It was not in existence to
te
France; it had been abolished in Holland without inju.!ste
the France. he Honourable Gfintleman said there slur ?11101.
of life in They had an instance in which thfc
own,
Army maintained discipline which never
"3 in invasion
he alluded to the last invasioa of Spain, and t
Gentleman told thew. the Romans punished by flogging, the punishment of flogging was never resorted to.
drew the inference that British and Roman courage
drawn from that source. He denied that inferenacse.thriro.
murder was committed by a slave,. so
severe
were executed.
man law that all the slaves
guilty or innocent, w
In one instance 640 slaves were executed for a murder coo.
ted by one. It was absurd theretbre to cite the Roman F..% 3
ments. The punishment of flogging kept out of thearVea
class of valuable persons. Many farmers' servants would
into the Army, if it were not for the dread of being "'sht bc•
to
ti his
T.tilie Heil;
for lite. It was a terrible punishment, but lie objected
cause it degraded the morals of the man, and destroyed.
energies. if it could not be abolished, he wished to see,lthea it
gated. If the punishment was to be inflicted, lie wis
might be only on men who were unworthy of the service. the
Air. W. SMITH did not consider this a proper time forte
discussion of a question of so much importance, but he„ale
principally to allude to the speech of the Gallant Genern; of
spoke second on the subject. It was clear, from the finurwits
the statement respecting foreign punishment, that there log
one general endeavour on the Continent to avoid Asp
soldiers.

eresohadluion.
commanded a
oh 0
did
el? it,A
JOHNSONKEs u p ported r
said,t e the
h • t
'linen
which corporal punishment had been much in use. •"„c,, ••
not resort to it, because he found it unnecessary. It was 7fi" wrs'
to flog a man to make him worse.ce
e thought
would have command of themselves, there would bo no
sion for corporal_punishment. r the
Lord PALMERSTON said, the main question beAareopt
House was, whether the Mutiny Bill should pass-
prepared to contend that this punishment was not 0w,,,0c"--idie.
1 t might harden rather than reclaim the offender. ne,-;icbt
tion of punishment, attended by ignominy and exposure,
have a tendency to make men worse. When he adlaitte't the
much, every one would admit that if he did nut oared with
Honourable Gentleman's motion, be was not enem Be
the punishment which was the subject of discussion•
taken
thought, however, the service required it, 'and if it werhuingin
away, much injury might be done. There was somet""towo.
the_ peculiar composition of an army which required severeu
—History proved that all armies had been subject to P 70.
ment for crimes. It was not important which way care:Ores
nishment was inflicted: whether by the stick, whip. Via
it was the same. The application occasioned bodily it es
Commander.in.Chief had endeavoured to dispense with fop,
much as possible. Whenever it was found by the retorattoop.
regiments that corporal punishments were inflicted to a S
derable extent, it was considered that the officer of the regin74
was not doing his duty.—(Hear I)—An arrangement hit•er
Army had tended to diminish many of the offences which re.
quired corporal punishment. The men were supplied with amain_e
sums daily, which was enough to furnish them with neceofin,
for their mess, but not enough to afford them the inetint..°l4lol
toxication. The line of argument taken by his Hon. : 3h,,
the gallant General was quite correct. From the general,.,
racier of the British Army it must contain a number out 'et
ions whom it was difficult to controul, and ther„CN'oble
were obliged to keep up a mode of punislinaent. 4.jorent*.
Lord could not with safety give up that mode of pypi,is son.
Sir R. FERGUSON said, those documents swhica " hitrtri
Friend had produced, contained a series of tlie most ss
punishments he had ever heard of. One of them con.msr room
his Hon. Friend stated, inputting the prisoner into a a,al'assine
by himself, and chaining him to the wall. This lie coohaimentia
the House, did not exist in the whole system 01.Pullhis,-ter state
England. He thanked God, that the army was In a we"
attached t°
of discipline than when he had the honour of being inooaf%
it, and there was less need of corporal punishment. Ho wool
severaihe might say of the finest regiments in which the..nd die
of flogging had been done away with almost entirely' need
conclusion he had drawn front this, was that there wash", would
of it. lie would not detain the House any longer, but
certainly vote with his Hon. Friend. s en) 'eye%
General TOWNSJIEND stated that he had alwaYikriny,bl
the character of being as humane as Any Officer in tlloe use*
would go further and add us any man, but he had wiad alwors
corporal punishment, • though
,sparingly, and lie.!' that mightcontinue the same being governed by the necessity of Whol+'
call for its use. Several Honourable Nen-there, so"'
•