The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-30 00:00:00

Group SS.

The Select Committee on this group reassembled at the usual
hour this morning, and proceeded with the affirmative evidence in
favour of the

0 OVENTEY, BEDWOR.T3I, AND NUNEATON

RAILWAY.

Mr. Wm. Clarke, the mayor of Coventry, who was examined in
chief yesterday, was cross-examined this morning at considerable
length by Mr. DANIEL, with a view of showing that a better line
might be marked out for the accommodation of the district.
Mr. Henry Browett, a large ribbon and trimming manufacturer,
proved that the line would greatly faciliate the trade carried on in
the neighbourhood of Coventry. He employed about 140 under.
takers who again employed upwards of 1,000 hands. These
undertakers, distribute the work amongst the inhabitants of neigh.
bnuring villages, and it was of paramount importance
that a cheap and rapid communication should be effected
between Coventry and those districts. At present the
journey was performed on foot, and the goods traffic carried on by
carts and waggons; but there could be no doubt these conveyances
would be thrown aside and the railway adopted, should Parliament
sanction its construction. Birmingham, London, Manchester, and
Liverpool dealers frequented the Coventry market, and it was
proposed to effect a junction with the London and Birmingham
and the Trent Valley line. There was no doubt
this railway would prove of considerable advantage to them.
The railway would have the effect of reducing the price of coal
in Coventry, for at present it had to be procured from Bed-
worth, and the cartage of the fuel enhanced the price to an
enormous extent. The railway, however, would reduce this
expense, and at the same time expedite the transit of the article.
At present he procured his coal from Bedworth and the Victoria
Colliery. The carriage cost him 3s. 6d. per ton. He consumed
about one ton a day.
The witness was cross.examined by Mr. DANIEL, on behalf of a
number of landholders, whose property would be interfered with by
the progress of the proposed railway, and who disapproved of the
line. The object, of the cross-examination was to show the Corn.
mittee that a line running eastward of Coventry, as was the case in
this railway, would not accommodate the inhabitants of the various
districts thraug;h which it passed so well as a line running westward
of that town.

Mr. Brewta, a ribbon and fringe manufacturer, at Coventry,
gave similar. evidence. He said there were five master manufac.
turers in th.e trimming and fifty in the ribbon ; and besides these
about four hundred minor manufacturers in Coventry who would
be all greatly accommodated by the proposed railway.
Mr. Thomas Williams, a ribbon-manufacturer, at Coventry,
and Bedworth, said he kept from 50 to 60 French looms constantly
at work at home, and besides these, he sent into the country
every day a basket of raw material, and received in return
a basket of manufactured goods He went once a week
to vi."sit his works, but if there was a railway the probability
was, that he would go every day. In his opinion, a better
lin a of railway could not be laid down than the present one, be-
es use it accommodated the manufactures of the district awl
pressed near to some very important collieries.
Mr. Thomas Dalton, a silk dyer at Coventry and Bednorth,
rind other witnesses, gave corroborative testimony, and the Com-
mittee afterwards adjourned.

GROUP W.
I3RAYTON AND GOOLE RAILWAY.

The Committee on this line met to.day, at twelve o'clock, Mr.
Pakington in the chair. The other members of Committee present
were the Hon. Mr. Maxwell, Lord Seymour, Mr. Whitmore, and
the Hon. Mr. Bouverie. The examination of

Mr. Shepherd was then resumed by Mr. PICLIRING—He consi-
dered the canal much preferable to the rail as a mode of convey.
ance for corn to Wakefield. There was greater delay occasioned
by the rail. The quantity of corn which arrived and was sold in
Wakefield In 1844 was 493,273 quarters, and in 1845, 575,799
quarters, showing an increase on the last year of 82,526 quarters.
That quantity did not include the Hour which passed through
Wakefield to the west, nor any corn but what was sold in Wake.
field.

Cross-examined by Mr. HOPE—Had no boats of his own on the
canal. The railway charge between Wakefield and Manchester
was, he thought is. to 2s. 3d. per quarter, on wheat. Could not
tell whether this included warehousing, &c. The quantity of
corn which is at present carried by the Manchester and Leeds
Hallway, was, he considered, from 1,200 to 1,500 quarters a week.
Did not know that Captain Lawes had stated it at 3,500 quar-
ters, or 15,0,000 quarters a year. The value of the warehouses at
Wakefield, in his opinion, was 200,0001., but they were not built for
that money; they might cost 50,000/. more when they were built,
but he only spoke of their present value. Wakefield had not
increased in prosperity since the construction of the railway. Did
not know whether a resort to the canal mode of conveyance was the
best means of restoring its prosperity. The warehouses at Wake-

field could store from 2b0,000 to 306,000 quartkrs of corn, and
those at Goole from 30,000 to 50,000 quarters. (A petition
in favour of the Pontefract and Goole line was here ha►,ded to
witness.) Had signed that petition; thought it was for the London
and York line that he had signed. All the names attached to it
were respectable names.
By Lord SZYMOUR—Had said that railways had:not added to the
prosperity of Wakefield; had, nevertheless, signed the petition,
although it would be adding an aediliohal line to Wakefield. His
reason for doing so was the communication which it Would open
with the south.

Mr, T. Binney, corn-factor, Wakefield, examined by Mr.
KrtowtEs—Was well acquainted with the corn trade between
Goole and Wakefield and Goole and Leeds. Agreed with the last
witness in every particular, Did not consider that any advantage
Wallet be gained in point of titne by the rail. Increased rapidity
would not be at all times air advdidage tb tortaattors..,--(A laugh.)
Cross-examined by Mr. HOME—There was a great Many Malt
kilns at present unoccupied in Wakefield. Did not know the num-
ber. Did not know what quat.tily of wheat was malted weekly at
Pontefract. Did not hear that there was arty very great quantity
of corn pilfered %bile on the canal. It would be more profitable
to ship corn to Goole in a large vessel than in a smaller
one, but he would take care lest these large vessels should strike
on the Whitton Sands. The rate of insurance on large vessels
in this trade was less than on small ones.

By Mr. KNOWLES.—The small vessels could go up to Castleford,
and were on that account preferable to the large ones.

By Lord SEYMOUR.—Sent corn at present from Wakefield to
Manchester by rail.

By the CHAIRMAN—Sent a larger quantity by the rail than by
canal.

Sir John Simpson, examined by Mr. ICNowtts—Lived at York.
Was a director of the York and North Midland line. Was ex-
tensively engaged in the coasting and home trade in corn. Was
well acquainted with the water communication between Goole
and Wakefield, and the line of the projected railway.
For bulky articles the water conveyance was, in his
opinion, better than the rail, but for small articles it was
not so good. Ile considered that corn was one of the former
articles, and he would prefer to send it by canal. The advantage
by this means was obtained of seeing the corn in bulk, which was
not the case by raiL If the railway was resorted to for the con-
veyance of corn the market would be entirely removed from
Wakefield to Goole. The canal he considered a cheaper mode of
conveyance. The cost of wheat at present from Goole to Wake-
field by canal was, including charges, abort 13d. per quarter.
Cross. examined by Mr. KNOWLES-Bulky goods were at pre.
sent carried on the canal at Id. a ton or somewhat less. Sent his
flour to Manchester and other places by rail. There was not more
than one-fifth of the business managed by rail. Was alarge owner
of vessels, and was building more to accommodate the increased
traffic. From York to Manchester the cost of flour by rail was 12s.
per ton.

By the CHAIRMAN—The comparative difference of freight and
insurance between Yarmouth and Goole and Yarmouth and Hull
was very trifling—about Id. or 2d. a quarter on height, and as )3.d.
to on insurance only on Scotch vessels.
By Mr. HOME—The tonnage of the largest vessels that come
up to York was about SO tons; vessels of 200 tons could come
up to Selby, passing the dangers of the Gcole navigation, and saw a
vessel there above 200 tons register.
By Mr. Buss, on the part of the landowners—York was not
principally supplied with coals from the West Riding. The time
now occupied in going from Selby to Leeds was from an hour to
an hour and a quarter, and the cost was 3s. The time table of the
Selby and Leeds, before they leased the line, was an hour, but this
was not regularly accomplished—he had been himself often dis-
appointed.

By Mr. KNOWLES—From York to Leeds the time now occupied
was an hour and a quarter. The fare of the first-class was 2d.
per mile, and on the Selby and Leeds about the same. Their
third.class carriages were very commodious and covered in.
When he said that Goole could not compete with Hull, it was
only with reference to vessels of a large size. It would be an in.
ducement for vessels to come to Goole that they could have a cargo
of coals back.

Mr. Edward Ellice examined by Mr. PICKERING—Lived at
Leicester; was an agent there for the:stle of lime. In 1840 the
amount sold was 5,092 tons. Thegreater part of this was used fur
agricultural purposes. The Crich lime was used almost entirely
for these purposes. The price at the works was Os. to 65. 6d. per
ton. The present sate paid per railway from Crich to Penistone
was Id. per ten per mile. .

Cross.examined by Mr. Hosis—The Crich was a mountain lime,
the other lime referred to was a magnesian lime. Sold it to
farmers.

Edward Ward, Esq., examined by Mr. KNOWLES— Was a ma-
gistrate, residing near Selby. Had an extensive ccal proporty.
Very few ships get to Selby, as compared with Goole, in con-
sequence of the difficulty of the navigation. Shipped 38,500 tons of
coals during the last five years,land was:convinced if he had had the
advantages of the rail, he could have shipped a great deal more.
The Leeds and Selby Railway passed for eight miles over a bed of
coals. The price of the best quality of coals at the pit's mouth was
ss. sd. per ton, and if the railway were made, the priec of coals at
Goole would be the same as at York. Could not send the coals
to Hull, as there was no dock communication there with the
Humber. The charge from all the pits to York was id. per ton.
The proposed Wakefield and Goole line would be of no use what.
ever to the coal-pits about Selby and that district. Had lime
quarries in that neighbourhood also; sold lime at the works for
71. per ton.
Cross-examined by Mr. WiLatris—Sent more building lime at
present to Manchester than agricultural. The London and York
line and two other proposed lines (if any one of them were carried)
would by a junction with the Wakefield, Pontefract, and Goole
lines, give all the facilities of conveyance which the proposed
Brayton and Goole line promised.
Cross.examined by Mr. BLiss—Could not say how long it would
take to work out his pits. He could not say whether they would
be done in a year. Sold his coals at Selby for 7s. 2d., and at York
at 6s. Bd. There was no important town on the proposed line—it
passed through an. agricultural country which was not very densely
populated. Knew the Hon. Mr. Petre's estate. The Leeds and
Selby and four other projected railways were to go through it, and
would completely cut it up. The proposed line was one:of them.;

Mr. Michael Bentley, examined by Mr. PICKERING—Was a lime
burner. Had nine vessels employed with Goole in the coasting
trade. Was acquainted with the projected Wakefield, Pontefract,
and Goole line. It would not benefit Knottingley. Lime could be
sent at present for Is. 6d. per ton by canal between Knottingley
and Goole. Water was a much preferable mode of conveyance to
rail. The dues in Selby canal were about 15s. for a cargo of 50 or
60 tons, and the cost altogether to Giple would be about I Ss. Wet
injured lime very much. A great q ntity of this lime went east-
ward to Lincolnshire, &c., for agricultural purposes.
The Speaker having been announced to be at prayers, the Com-
mittee then adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

GROUP X.
LONDON AND YOBS, LINE.
The Committee sat today at the usual hour.
GENERAL TRAFFIC EVIDENCE.

Mr. Pitman's examination was resumed—The table now in his
hand showed that in two weeks the receipts upon the present line
between Alcumbury and Tattershall, for passengers, cattle, and
every species of goods, except coal, grain, and wool, amounted to
30,1471. 3s. 3d. The witness then went into a detailed statement
of the water passengers traffic by track boats between different
towns, by canal, through which the proposed line was to pass, and
concluded that all that traffic would be carried on to the London
and York line, and much expenditure of time and money would be
saved.

GROUP L.

MOUTH RAILWAY.

Mr. WEtts, on behalf of the Eastern Counties project, said that
as the tables put in presented such a mass of figures, it would be
impossible he could read them over with sufficient attention, since
he only received them yesterday evening, to enable him to cross-
examine the witness upon them. On these grounds he would
suggest that the promoters of the London and York line should pro.
ceed with their engineering evidence, in order to give time to go
through these tables. . . .

Mr: BAXTER, on behalf of the Midland Counties project, made
the same application.
" '

SergeaniKINGIARE said he could not possibly comply with the
application ; and he conceived that the Learned Counsel had had
the tables long enough to inform himself upon them.
Mr. WELLS said he had been misunderstood by the Learned
Sergeant. He did not mean to say be was not prepared to cross.
examine the witness ; but if he had had more time to examine the
tables, he might be able to save the time of the Committee, by
putting only one question, where he would now be compelled to
put half a dozen.
Mr. BAXTER said that four tables had been put in this morning,
which he had not seen until a short time before he came into the
room.
The room was then ordered to be cleared.

TREE S N, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 30, 1845.

over without any charge being made for ferry dttes, The money
the Company proposed to raise for constructing the branch would
be 30,t10/. He had already told them that the Company fully ex.
petted that 500,i00 persons would annually pass over their branch,
and these charged 2d. eat.k..; would yield an annual income of
4,166/. For working expenses the engineer would allow 4 per cent.
on the gross income, and after this deduction had been made, it left
for annual distribution amongst the shareholders a net sum of
1,6661., or 8 per cent, on the gross outlay. The Committee
would observe that he had taken no notice of the goods traffic, be-
cause at present it was totally hypothetical ; and the Company,
therefore, preferred relying upon the passengers, without taking
the goods traffic into consideration, The Learned Counsel then
produced evidence in support ofihis statement. As the Bill was an
unopposed one, it was merely of a formal nature.
Mr. Bidder, the engineer, stated that the line would only be
made with a single line of rails, but sufficient land would be taken.
so as to enable the Company to make a double line of way, in the
event of its being afterwards found necessary.
The room was then cleared, and the Committee having consulted
for a few minutes, the parties interested were re.admitted, when
some conversation arose between the Committee and the agent
relative to the proposed ferry opposite Woolwich.
The CHAIRMAN wished to know whether the river authorities
had been consulted upon this point ? The Committee, he said, were
anxious that no powers should be given to the Company which
would enable them to obstruct the navigation of the river.

The agent replied that no powers of that nature could be given by
the Bill. The Bill only authorised the Company to make a railway
to the terminus opposite Woolwich.
The CHAIRMAN remarked that the Learned Counsel had urged
upon the Committee that the construction of the ferry was an in-
ducement for them to sanction the line. Now, if the Company did
not intend to carry their passengers across the Thames for the 6d.,
their fares must be reduced.

The agent replied that it would be for the interest of the Com.
patty to carry their passengers to Woolwich, and this could be
effected without making a further charge than 6d.
The roam was again cleared, and after the Committee had con-
stilted together for two or three minutes, strangers were re-admitted,
when

The CHAIRMAN announced that the Committee considered that
the preamble to the Bill had been proved.
The various clauses of the Bill were then agreed to, and the
Committee adjourned.

GROUP F.E.
AIIE7aDEEN RAILWAY.
The Committee met to-day, at twelve o'clock. Mr. F. Bariug,
(Chairman), when the evidence in favour of the Aberdeen Railway
was gone into.

Mr. John Duncan was first examined, and deposed to the ge.
neral traffic along the track of country through which the line
was proposed to be taken, which he represented to be very consi-
derable, especially in agricultural produce and cattle.
Mr. William Miller followed, and gave evidence to a similar
effect.

Mr. Adam Barnes, of Montrose, said he represented the feelings
of the inhabitants of that town, which vas dLcidedly in favour of
the line under the consideration of the Committee. Public meet.
ings had been held, and also meetings of the town council, at
which it had been agreed to support this line in preference to
any other. He considered the formation of this line would be of
the greatest advantage to the town of Montrose. The harbour
authorities and all the leading inhabitants of the town were in
favour of this line.
Mr. CARNEGIE, chairman of the line, was of opinion that, both
as it regarded time and expense, the advantage would be in favour
of the railway.
Mr. Gibson, Provost of Arbroath, and a shipowner, gave evi-
dence as to the large trade between that town and Aberdeen. The
cost of a ton of good between those tonwns at present was from Bs.
to 102. per ton. Arbroath contained a population of 14,645.
Mr. Thom gave evidence to a similar effect. _ _ .

Mr. A. Heston said, he was an extensive fisher and fish carrier.
The exports of fish this year from Aberdeen was, of haddocks,
3,150 tons; herrings, 2,782 tons; lobsters and crabs, 148 tons ;
pickled cod, 318 tons; dried cod, 170 tons; and periwinkles, 300
tons. He thought that if they had a railway formed, a great por.
tion would be carried along it. _ _

Captain Barclay, of Ury, the celebrated pedestrian, deposed that
this line would be of the greatest service to that part of the kingdom,
as it would accommodate both the coast and the interior.

Mr. Marshall here put in the traffic tables, which, after specifying
the details of traffic, receipts, &c., present a general result of
receipts from passengers, 43,1611.; from goods, 88,6791.; total,
81,8401.
Mr. Walker, Superintendent of the Aberdeen Market, said he
had the charge of the taking of the passengers' traffic. He bpd
examined the tables of Mr. Marshall, and was satisfied they were
perfectly correct. The number of steamers plying southward of
Aberdeen were eight, two going to London, one to Newcastle, one
to Dundee, and the remainder to Leith. He thought the great
bulk of the passengers who went by this mecns would go by this
line, as the present mode of travelling was very uncertain, and they
were very often detained at Aberdeen.

Mr. Gibb, the engineer of the line, said he had been
an engineer for twenty years. He was first instructed
to survey for this line in 1844. At that time the
Dundee and Arbroath was formed andin operation. He
had surveyed several lines to ascertain which was the best, and came
to the conclusion that this was, both as it regarded gradients, and
the accommodation of the inhabitants of the coountry between the
two termini. The estimate of the line, including stations, was
about 15,0001. per mile. This was much less than if he had gone
by the coast from Stonehaven to Montrose. The cuttings would
have been much severer, and this induced him to go by Lawrence-
kirk, through the How of the ]Kearns. The line started from
Market-street, Aberdeen, and about 100 feet from the Post-office,
and about the same distance from the principal street, Union-street.
It was nearly on a level with that street. The station was
close to the harbour and docks, and there was to be a
goods terminus there. The line, after leaving Aberdeen,
crossed the river Dee at Palmuir, and went en by the coast to
Stonehaven, and from thence to into the interior part of Lawrance-
kirk, and terminating near to Froikheira. There were three
branches to be made in connexion with the main branch; one to
Froikheim, one to Brechin, and one to Montrose. The average
gradients were 1 in 169, and the steepest gradient lin 100. The
cost of the line, he estimated at 830,0001. The cost of the land
etas 57,0001.; the cost of the cuttings, at Is. 21d. per cubit yard,
was upwards of 257,000, being for 4,292,287 yards ; the embank-
merits, viaducts, &c. 113,4751. 18s. 7d., being for 3,529,220
yards; the bridges would 27,1451. 7s. ; the culverts and
drains 4,4211. 95.; the rails and sleepers 157,2641. 165.;
the stations, warehouses, &c., 75,954 ; contingencies 73,0001.
Therewere no engineering difficulties on tge line ; no
tunnels, and only one road crossed on the level. The estimate)
annual charge was 33 per cent, on the income. The gradient of
1 in 100 was about one-fourteenth of the whole line, or about
eight miles. The railway was in length—main line, 46 miles
103 yards; branches to Froikheim, 1 mile 1,547 yards; to Brechin,
3 miles 862 yards; to Montrose, 3 miles 169 yards.
The Committee then adjourned.

GUILDFORD, CHICHESTER, AND PORTS-

The Committee resumed their inquiry on this railway at twelve
o'clock this morning.

Mr. Blagdon, an attorney for the line, was called by the pro-
motels, and stated that the population on the projected line within
five miles on both sides of the line near Petworth was 55,359, while
on the atmospheric line there were 6,963 houses, and a population
of 35,506 within seven miles. There were thirty-three seats of
noblemen and gentlemen within seven miles on both
sides of the line. There were also nineteen corn.
mills within seven miles of the Halfway-bridge, midway
between Petworth and Midhurst. The thirty-three seats were be.
tween Chillingford •and Chichester. The Halfway.bridge was
about three miles and a half from both Petworth and Midhurst,
rather nearer to the latter. The number of houses in Chichester
was 1,609, and the population 8,512.
To the cross-examination of Mr. ALEXANDER, the witness stated
that he had not taken any particular notice of the population of the
places within two miles westward of Chichester.
To the cross.examination of Mr. WADDINGTON, Mr. Blagdon
stated that he had included Bognor in his estimates—
the number of houses 500, and the population 2,490. The esti-
mates of houses and population which he had made, was for seven
miles of the line on both aides throughout the length of thirty
miles on the line between Guildford and Chichester. On this

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atpopulation f49.1,10t0m0u
oos eBwps wasteicn line
51 4in,2i3ess de the population
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a
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tnhdi s tlainnce e.
taken was thirty-four miles, the number of inhabited houses 9,529,
that distance, the number of inhabited houses was 10,641, and the
'
population 55,359 on the Guildford Chichester, and Portsmouth
line, while on the atmospheric line there were throughout the 34
miles, 6,963 houses, and 35,506 population.
Mr. F. Giles, surveyor and engineer, stated that he had laid out
and constructed the Guildford and Woking line, and had surveyed
the line from Guildford to Chichester. The gradient of 1 in a 100
was now a very practicable gradient, and he had applied the giadient
of 1 in 110 througout six miles on the Guildford and Chichester.
On the Manchester and Liverpool line there were gradients of 1 in
89, and 1 in 86 ; and on the Newcastle and Carlisle line
which had been constructed by himself, there was the gradient of
one 1 in 106, which was four miles long, and he thought that the
gradients on the Guildford and Chichester line were anything but
difficult.
To the inquiries of Mr. ()swam) Mr. Giles stated that the
gradients of 1 in 86, and 1 in 89 on the Manchester and Liver-
pool line, were each one and a half mile in extent, and no extra-
ordinary power was required to surmount them. He had been
allowed on one occasion to stop the trains during the whole day at
the foot of the rise in order to ascertain this very point, and
the engines had all gone over the plane without the
momentum, and without any increased power. The works on the
South Western line were, in his opinion, much more difficult
than those on the proposed Guilford and Portsmouth line. He had
laid out a line to Gosport from Bishopstoke, and also to Portsmouth,
but in that line he had never contemplated going to the town of
Hasleinere, although he had intended to go so near as to give ac.
commodation to that town. In 1836 he had attended a meeting at
Portsmouth, and there a direct communication with London bad
been suggested to, and earnestly advocated by the people of
Portsmouth, in which a connexion with Arundel was included, but
no scheme had ever been projected which did not comprise
Chichester.
Mr. Locke being recalled, stated that the distance by way of
Brighton to Portsmouth from London was 95 miles; 50% miles
to Brighton from London.bridge; thence to Shoreham, 5 miles
5 chains; thence to Chichester, 22 miles 6 chains; and thence to
Portsmouth, 16 miles, making a few chains less than 95 miles.
The present line to Gosport was 88 miles long.
By Fareham It would be to Shoreham 84 miles ;
thence to Cosham, 6 miles; and thence to Portsmouth, 3 miles;
making the whole distance aboui 93 miles. The distance to Hun..
gerford.bridge would be 1 mile and 6 furlodgs further. He was
not aware whether there was any decided agreement between the
Brighton and the Chichester Company, though he had understood
that the Shoreham Company had leased their line for ten years.
To the inquiries of Mr. OSWALL, Mr. Locke stated that there
were to be two stations at Chichester, one for the Guildford line
and the other for the Shoreham line, both. however, communicaling
by railway ; and there was no reason why both stations should
not be amalgamated. The distance by the proposed line
from Hungerford was 76 miles, being 18 miles in favour of
that line. The whole of the earthworks and works of art without
land would cost, from Guildford to Chichester 476,000/, and from
Chichester to Portsmouth 180,000/., making together 656,0091.
for the whole. On the whole line there would benine side cuttings
and fourteen spoil banks ; the former occupying about 31 acres,
and the latter 56 acres. Between Chichester and Portsmouth
there would be eight side cuttings, which would occupy from 22 to
24 acres.
To Mr. GURNEY—Mr. Locke replied that there was an arrange-
ment between the Government and the South-Western Company
for the electric telegraph to Portsmouth for ten years, for which
they were to pay 1,5001. a year. The London end of the tele-
graph was to be at the Admiralty, and there would be a great ad-
vantage by the proposed line in avoiding the water at Gosport.
To the inquiries of Mr. 0 swALL Mr. Locke replied that it was
intended to cross four turnpike levels at a level, near two of which
there would be stations.
Mr. Long, formerly a resident at Portsmouth, and who, since
that time had held an appointment as police magistrate in
Van Dieman's Land—He had always taken a great interest
in the railway communication with Portsmouth ; indeed every
requisition for a public meeting and every resolution had been
drew!, up by him. In 1836 the secretary and solicitor of the
Southampton line had called upon him with a view to establish a
communication with their line, but at that time, the desire of the
inhabitants was for a line eastward; but he now thought that the
proposed Guilford line was the best for the business transactions of
Portsmouth. In his opinion the proposed line was at least
40,0001. a year better than the two other lines, and there was,he felt
assured no feeling ofjealousy at all of the South Western Company,
and Hough he did not now reside at Portsmouth he took the same
interest in the town as before.
Mr. home was recalled, and put in a comparative table of the
fares chargod by the Birmingham, the South Eastern. and the South
Western Cympanies, from which it appeared that the proposed

charge was the same, or less, than those charged by other Companies.
The maximum charges for passengers were intended to be 3d.,
2d., and Id. per mile for first, second, and third class passengers.
Mr. Gti?ntay then put in the agreement for the lease of the
Guildford and Woking line, ard also proposed clauses for securing
the working of the line to Portsmouth, as efficiently as it was now
worked to Southampton.
This closed the case for the promoters.
Mr. RAWLSNSON then stated that he and Mr. Sergeant Talfourd
had agreed to amalgamate their cases, and proposed that the latter
Learned Counsel should address the Committee in opening, and he
himself, if they thought proper, after the examination of their
witness.

This being agreed to,
Mr. Sergeant facrouan proceeded to address the Committee on
behalf of the inhabitants of Portsmouth. He said that putting out
of the question that important connection of the town with the
great naval power of the country, the whole of the population of
the district from Chichester to Portsmouth, if taken within seven
miles of the line, there was little in cAcess over that of the town
itself, and if it was taken within five miles the disproportion in
the numbers was still:less, and he therefore thought the
feelings of the people of Portsmouth were entitled
to great consideration. Now, in the course of his opening, Mr.
Cockburn had made the admission that the feeling of the people
of Portsmouth was decidedly in favour of the atmospheric line, and
against the Guildford line. Mr. Casher, the Mayor, had admitted
that on the 7th of this present month he had presided over a meet-
ing both very numerous and highly respectable, at which not more
than fifty hands had been held up in favour of the line of the
South. Western Company. From this meeting a petition
had emanated, which, in the course of four days,
had been signed by upwards of nine thousand persons.
with respect to the fictitious signatures attached to that petition
he should show that they were put to it in several instances as a
mere joke, and in one case the name of the Earl of Dalhousie had
been signed by the clerk of Mr. Gauntlett, who had himself ap-
peared as a witness to vitiate that petition, and in the presence of
that gentleman's son. This he adduced not to throw any stigma
en the promoters of the Bill, but to show how in a large place like
Portsmouth such irregularities as these would easily be fallen into,
but if be stood there merely as the representative of
the five respectable individuals who were appointed by that
meeting, and setting the petition altogether aside, still the feelings
of the people werc entitled to respect. With regard to the feeling
of jealousy between the towns of Southampton and Portsmouth,
it was quite natural. Considering the positions of the two towns,
and the Isle of Wight, and the increase of importance of South-
ampton, this was quite natural, and when the inhabitants of Ports-
mouth saw that the whole of the traffic was under the direction of
people who, from their connection with the South. Western line and
the ;dare to which it ran, naturally felt a great interest in tt.at place,
would, in all probability, give a preference where their interests
were so largely concerned. It was, therefore, to say the least, but
little likely that Portsmouth would receive its due share of consi-
deration. Sufficient evidence had been adduced to show that the
people of Portsmouth had always desired a line directly to London.
And what he would ask, therefore, was, not a preference for the
atmospheric line, but that the Committee would pause before they
decided. It was perfectly evident that if this line was
made, another could not be hoped for; for if this was
once achieved, the capital once invested, no change
could possibly be expected, and the people of Portsmouth
would be handed over in perpetuity to the South Western Corn-
pany, who would unquestionably obtain a completely despotic
power over the interests of the 60,000 persons who constituted the
population of Portsmouth and Portsea. This, therefore, was no
case of common monopoly, bud it was an entire despotism over an
important port, which, notwithstanding their utmost energy, they
could never throw off. Then, with respect to the clauses which
were proposed to secure the interest of the people of
Portsmouth, they all knew, from the experience and the
incidents in the courts of law, that this was no sufficient defence,
as was shown in tho case of Mr. Parker and the Great Western
Railway, in which he had been engaged. That Company had
thought proper to mark out Mr. Parker as the objact of their rail-
way, and had charged him an extra sum for his packages ovsr the
amount charged to their pet contractors, Messrs. Chaplin and
Horue; had refused to allow him to put several parcels together ;
or to deliver to his own customers. It was true, Mr. Parker had
succeeded in defeating the Company, partly through his (Mr. Ser-
geant Talfourd's) instrumentality, but it was not every person
that possessed the gallantry of Mr. Parker, and it was well
known that the heavy men in public Companies brought all their
intellect and experience to bear on the interests of the property
with which they were connected, and left all their sympathies
behind them. He did not mean to throw out anything dispa-
raging either against Mr. Brunel, the engineer, or against his own
late colleague, the Chairman, both of whom were men of the
highest character.
Mr. GURNEY—The Great Western Company are not repre-
sented here.

Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD—Nor are they misrepresented. The
termini of this line was at London at one end and at Ports-
rneuth on the other. In the one instance at a place where all
interest was lost in the general mass, but at the other it was alto.
gether of vital import. By the proposed ►ine the rates both of ear-
-1 riage and of passenger traffic would be much higher than by the
atmospheric principle. Now that principle was under active expe-
riment, and he trusted the time would shortly arrive when it
would be universally adopted. It would both be cheaper and
more expeditious than the locomotive principle. Even Mr.
Carter had stated shat if the time was to be less, and the
expense no more, he would prefer the atmospheric prin-
ciple, and that that principle was no illusion, was
evident from the fact of money and ability having been already
extensively :pledged to it. And at any rate, whatever be the
merits of the two principles, the Portsmouth people said that so
great was their jealousy of the South-Western Company that they
would endure all the inconveniences which they now experienced,
and wait a little longer rather than submit themselves and their
children to a monopoly which it would, if this Guildford line were
now granted, be in all future time utterly imposs,ble to break
through. Moreover, there was the coast line, which would still give
all the advantages to Chichester a London communication with
Portsmouth, and also a conneation with Chatham and the other
great arzenals of the country. They would prefer that line if they
could not get the atmospheric, but would rather, for this session,
that things should remain as they are than that this Bill should pass.
Mr. G. Sprague was then called, and stated that he had signed
the petition at Hyde-park Corner, in Portsmouth, and testified that
several of the fictitious signatures attached to the petition had been
put to it through the instrumentality of Mr. Gauntlett's clerk, and
it was his impression that many of the signatures were not genuine.
To the inquiries of Mr. MONCKTON MILNE. the witnesses stated
that ten out of twelve of the people of Portsmouth were in favour
of the atmospheric. His reasons for preferring the atmospheric line
was, in the first place, the Atmospheric Company promised them
three third•class trains should run during the day ; secondly, that
the fares would be lower; and, thirdly, that be believed the railway
would be safer. If the atmospheric line were not obtained he
believed the Portsmouth people would prefer the coast line.

Mr. Erasmus Jackson, a banker at Portsmouth, and now Cham-
berlain of the borough, who had taken an active part in all that
had paesed, during the last ten years, with respect to a railway to
the town, stated that the feeling of the inhabitants was decidedly
in favour of the atmospheric line. He had been chairman of a
deputation, in 1838, which had had two communications with the
Directors of the South-Western Railway, who had expressed
their inability or disinclination, or both, to give any better line
to Portsmouth than the branch to Gosport, and their ex-
pectation of getting the whole of the trade of Portsmouth and
Portsea, through Gosport, and certainly he had never heard of the
Guildford line until sometime after the atmospheric line had been
projected and published. The witess also bore testimony to the
feeling expressed at the two meetings of the inhabitants, and stated
his opinion that the London-bridge terminus, which was that of
the atmospheric line, would be more convenient to the inhabitants
of Portsmouth than the one at Vauxhall. The atmospheric termi.
nus at Portsmouth was also better than that of the other line, both
for High-street and the Steam-packet Quay.
The cross-examination of Mr. Gurney, obtained a conformation
of this evidence, but further that the inhabitants had thrown out
a Bill on its second reading, the object of which was to make a line
to Portsmouth by the South-Western Company.
To the inquiries of Lord Crave—Mr. Jackson stated, that
the atmospheric terminus would by a little longer line of
rail be enabled to communicate with the dockyard.
And,:to the inquiries of the Chairman and Mr. Oswald, he said
that, in his opinion, the Atmospheric line would be decidedle the
best, and this opinion was based on the contiguity of the Isle :of
Wight, and the attraction of the traffic through the town.
The Committee then ad)ourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.