The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-20 00:00:00

et a red_ . --•_. -- — - . _.---
ing ',cud rate of dety, because sheep farmers, possess- I will do everything which I can for them ; but, can it he
ie thousandseeu of sheep in the falls of Westmorland and supposed by any person who has two ideas in his heal,
dut,tictland, w seld derive a vast benefit from such a re- 1 that a farmer—a farmer who is entirely among his
some ,fli for it was by no means uncommon to expend i turnip-field, his elieep, and his barns, can have a com-
ehase Iwo, three, or it might be 400/. a year in the pur- ' preheusive view of what is proper to be done for the
rt°f grease for what they called " serving sheep."
forcounty ?—(Tremendous laughter.) AM person writes
core
a few words from Mr. EWART and Mr. DAREY, up me, and says, • Vote for Mr. iles.' I reply,
re C. VILLIERS could not, in this case, join in the • I won't vote fur Mr. Miles.'—(Renewed laughter.)
ioctuhrcern,.endation of 'the ':boti. Member for'dockermouth Let me tell such persons that I. will. nut vote for any
that thrlol,Member for Essex, for he certainly thought man or any measure at their dictation. —(Hear, hear.).
the d RMember had as good a right to object to I have been in the House ever since 1841, aed I consider
leek (),411g away with the duty on grease as any other that I have done my duty.—(Hear, hear.) I am not
They had had, in that discussion, a speakine to you, gentlemen—l am addressing my con-
i)iit4?tisler-nillbri'srt.ration of the working of the protective stituents.—(Laughter.) I have done my duty-TI say
reei°:--- (Hear, hear.) An Hon. Member came forward honestly, conscientiously, and to the best of livability ; and
seotOld that they were protecting one country against when my constituents find fault with me, or discover a
ime,renerr•—(Laugliter.) That meant, certainly, that they person of greater taleet—as they easily may—who will
(Lane] "bbing the one country to assist the other— do their business better than myself, I shall be happy to
ereei , lt,er)—but each would willingly end the quarrel, resign the representation into their hands—(Hear, hear)
Public_ Peels might with impunity rob the general —but never, as long as I hold a seat in this House, will
reee—(Laugliter.) The lion. Member fur Cocker- Ibe dictated to by the Protection Society in Bond street,
etre,Lwiehed that grease should be imported at a lower or by any agricultural society in the country.--(Hear,
eti?
rbecause he wished it far sheep in Westmorland. hear.) Now, let us analyse that Bond-street Protection
ersas,he Hon. Member for Essex dal not wish to see Society.—(Haar and laughter.) There are a number of
(N.': Imported at a Oland duty, for he had it to sell— country gentlemen. in that society, several members
thee "nncel laughter) thus it was that the man of of Parliament, and many noblemen and men of the
110,1: recommended the man of grease not to divide the highest station and rank in the country. They issue
eantriet;
,Ile thought th' %hole system a robbery on the their mandates to the minor societies.—(" Hear, hear,"
hike n'tYr but Hon. Members might, as they pleased, from the Opposition benches.) Here is my Lord Duke
After sense or nonsense of the House upon the subject. pulling the strings behind the scenes ; and all these
ii: a few words from Sir W. JAMES, little goes are got up to personate agricultural represen-
Ilene ACLIONBY had no objection to Hon. Members tatives.—(Great laughter.) It strikes Inc that these
tiee'Per'se. so long as they did not impugn the repute gentlemen are something like Polyphemus, they have
the °,endividuals. He had a character to maintain with but one eye in their head—they can see nothing bat a
the Public, who might misunderstand what the Hon. turnip field.—(Hear, hear, and burets of laughter.)
keee er for Wolverhampton had said of him in a jocular What I mean is, they can see nothing in the world but
kern`' and he, therefore, was anxious to correct the Bon. their single interest."—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The
ef
ither in the interpretation of what ho had said. The Hon. and Gallant Member concluded by stating that he
to v• for Wolverhampton had evidently miscon- should support the proposal under the consideration of
see everything he had said, or he could not have the House.
iiislln into the error of supposing that he had an interest Lord A. LENNOX said. he would not have risen but
tele:l), or that he wanted grease for sheep. He had for the extraordinary speech which had just been deli-
ti e 843 anything which could lead to such a supposi- vered. He could not suppose that His Hon. and Gallant
1:4;nor had he, in the slightest degree, advocated the Friend had meant to insiilt those who had returned him
tiee c't of the agrieulturist. He dependel a good deal to Parliament, but lie did not think the Sussex farmers
heel? "nd, but, nevertheless, since the first time he had were likely to elect him again as their representative.—
leill 4 seat in that House, he had always voted with the (Hear, hear.)
jie Member on his motion fur a repeal of the corn-laws. Mr. WARD said, as one who was himself connected
ir- BRAMSTON withdrew his motion. with land, he felt that it is as a degradation of that inte-
le r• COBDEN, however, wished to take a division on rest that the time of the House should be taken up by
telies e ' as, however, not supported, and the motion was discussing these miserable little monopolies.—(Hear.)—
' idsaie
Te °- He had presented their petitions, but always said he
One,e stein was then agreed to. would not support them. lie had never curried favour
tele en', item being put for the admission of raw and with his constituents. The Hon. Baronet the Member
eu hid a a
ser, es at are uceduty, for Essex had twitted him with deserting the landed in-
kebgeant MURIeIiY said he had been requested by a terest ; it was true lie belonged to that interest—what
opposer of tanners, who carried on business in Cork, to little he had was bound up in it. But he believed that
teie; this reduction, because it would give the fo- the course which that interest was now pursuing was
wo;ifeer an advantage over the British manufacturer. It not calculated to benefit them at all. lie could not but
teslie-,°lllY put one-sixteenth of a halfpenny into the express his contempt—he meant in a Parliamentary
Nee' of the English tanner, while they gave the fo- sense—(Laughter)—of those who were upholding this
kV' the difference of the whole twopence, the course—who name forward with these beggarly Inca-
kW" amount of duty to be imposed on these sures instead of boldly advocating those which were
kale es• There were peculiar circumstances affecting the large and comprehensive in their nature. If he held the
tie of this countrywhich rendered it advisable that views of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, ho would vote to-
qtltieeduction should be postponed for the present. Most morrow for the repeal of the Corn Bill and the Canada-
eeith British manufacturers imported hides largely from Corn Bill. The course which those Honourable
Ilene America and the district of the River Plate ; and Gentlemen were pursuing was throwing eternal disgrace
l'eld ji"i° the present disputes between Buenos Ayres upon their party. They opposed the introduction of
l -tit° Video, they were compelled to pay an addi• lard, simply because there was one country which could
Ikatede'cPense of 30 per cent. upon all articles they im- produce it better and cheaper than any other country in
ttie Then, again, the American tanner had an ad- the world. That was one reason why they should go
4111ge Of being able to get bark almost for nothing, or, there ; and he believed that the peasantry, would be
tree events, much cheaper than the British manufisc- greatly benefited by the repeal of this duty, and he,
RN Pic els:h_ile, in
.Belgium. the tanner's labour was about half therefore, gave his cordial support to the Government.
New: what it was in England or Ireland. lie should, Sir JOHN TYRRELL said the Hon, Gentlemen
ler"e, move that the item be postponed. who had just sat down had made two vituperative
N,*; GLADsToNE had heard a simMer statement speeches against the agriculturists. He had only fol-
ditipt,'„,.'n 1843, when the whole question relating to the lowed the example of the lion. Member for Northainp-
!tte-'4.3„ in the district of the River Plate ton, who had imputed to that interest the basest and
''til '11"Y discussed, and, he believed, satisfac- most beggarly motives. He (Sir J. Tyrrell) had thought
tee Yth settled. He thought it was advisable to that it was understood at the beginutng of the evening
4411 el e "Perinient of admitting a .great number of that they were not to discuss principles, but confine
111e,,,,e.5r these being simply articles of raw materials, or themselves to details, yet, notwithstanding, this, Member
~,511"ti,,,18,,in the first stage of manufacture, into this after Member had indulged in eitupereilee letignege ;
:gr, s-'"ree of duty, and the question now to be con and he did not, therefoie„ feel that he was justified in
114iefi w,as, whether' this particular article was one remaining silent. The Hon. Member for Susses had
ollee,tll'.ght be safely freed. Now, for his part, he made a speech whieh was very amusing. ite t Sir John
Pith, lt was, and he would tell them why. The Tyrrell) had partaken very largely in that amusement.
es ieee rein of the tanning trade was predicted when fie thought he had seen the Hen. Member occupying a
‘°tlltletuuction was made in the duty in 1842. Previous very conspicuous place at the Freeneaeorie 'reveen, and
14th thne the duties varied from Gd. to is. OP., and it he thought that there was some little inconsistency in
'tee „en reduced in some instances to 10d. What had the course which the Hon. Gentlemse lied midopted, but
tetil'he.ieleffeet of tills change ? Why, in the first year, he did not think that inconsistency was confined to the
Othst, re 55,0001b5. of tanned leather brought into this other side of the House. In researches which he had
:30,"1nd in the second year the 55,0001b5. had fallen latel made he found that the Hon, Member for \Vol-
t f,7o)bs•—(Hear, hear.) This proved clearly that verhampton (Mr. Villiers), who dealt so largely in
ii.aise 'gners could not stand their ground in the accusing the landed interest of participating
pi to Illarket. But the advantage which resulted to in public plunder—to his very great surprise, he
leifelitletillt,rY from the reduction of 1842, was more ma- found that the Hon. Member was in the possession of a
''Philee 'flown in the returns of the importation of situation in that sink of iniquity, the Court of Chan-
1t le•-e's. Since the Act of 1842, the importation of eery, and blest with the
_possession of a jape salary.
ileete",°:3 had increased by 200,000 cwts., while the Now that situation must be a sinecure, seeing that the
1,1,00011"011 of tanned leather had only increased. by Hon. Member's. time must be almost wholly occupied
eeeteese or about 15,000 cwts. Under these circum- by the Anti-Corn-law Leage. Now why did not the
7tim-'u, did not think there was any ground for the Hon. Member apply his free-trade principles there ?
of big
2' the Hon, and Learned Member. No doubt that office could be performed for 500/ a year,
Zile, `IO.LIONBY bad also been requested by some instead of 1,0001. ; and under these circumstances he
e'gthel ecntstituents to oppose this item ; but after the must say that the Hon. Gentleman's principles and prac-
N,114,,e4. the lion. and Learned Member for Cork, he tice were much opposed, Ile (Sir .I. Tyrrell) had no
4m'ett, 'l7fraiii from going into any lengthened state- hesitation in saying, with respect to use protection
etlie-lae begged, however, to remind the Committee societies that they were a great libel on a Conserve-
ielltst„..`e2evernment. that this was not an article in the five Administration. He thought that the Right
sam.tee','„ of manufacture, but it was an article which Honourable Baronet would derive much advert-
ee.rn ell intents and Purpoees, considered by the Bri- tage from the study of some speeches of the
k.Blrll44llftetUrer in a finished state. Hon. Member for Stockport, for he would there find that
1 - 'I%EL was confident, from what he had gleaned the object of that Hon. Gentleman, and those with whom
Ittii '' deputation which had come up from Liverpool to he was connected, was to displace some of the ornaments
Iktikr,,lll3 him 411 '
respecting' this subject, that the British of that House, and to bring in, for instance, the Brights
I,4l`seteterer bad an infiniteadvantageeeer the foreigner. and Cobdens, and to displace the Egertons—that was
kele: eXanalised the two qualities of leather, and this the prospect which the agricultural interest had to look
Meq,t.....t1 up every doubt he might have had upon the forward to. He would be glad to hear the principles of
erl kelear, hear,) Since the year 1841, burdens protection fairly and boldly discussed.
eitt, press ~
.ilea et. `sea upon the +Armee had been removed to the Mr. VILLIERS inquired msiay the Hon. Gentleman
kiNv
.00000/, and he could not understand what did not do so. The Hon. Gentleman had already made
it was said they removed two speeches that night, but not one word had been said
eePree.e"ad to complain of.
eN, ilar,ketive duties of the manufacturer, but never in justification of protection, and what was the charge
,it,,n0„),,,,,,0,./1: which
.bore upon agriculture. Now this he had brought against him (Mr. Villiers)? He (Mr.
415".._! r they did not propose to do awry with the Villiers) had never imputed base motives to any one—
Ito etle,t4rte to benefit the tanner.—(Hear, and cheers.) he had merely stated what was the effect of the law-
-1 's*)/ ntages the tanners had had was not less than end it was no answer to him to bring the charge
trp • IT
hti- ttnn tie hoped the House would not think they which the Honourable Gentleman bad that night. made
eeiee-eitng the home manufacturer of leather to cons • when he said that he (Mr. Villiers) held a place in the
ii:le ",' they allowed the free importation of that Court of Chancery. The Hon. Gentleman said that
lett;eo•4e was sure the tanning trade were perfectly place was a sinecure, It was not. Was not a man
vtiT,P4 liar ....competition with any country. worthy of his hire? If it was net a sinecure, why could
eilteepi'vvlCK believed that the fear of competition he not hold it ? It was no sinecure ; he was paid for his
Va_b4C;atittrY, and was surprised to hear the advocates work. He did it ; and he told the Hon. Gentleman. that
teeeett,r,e'e asking for protection upon such an article the Hon. Gentleman was paid for work ho did not do.-
4tZtu-,,",, For himself, he should always vote for the (Laughter.) lie came to that House to get paid.
ki;iti tg anY protective duty. He believed the tan- The landed interest passed a law to swell their rent-rolls;
Yetie;3 country were perfectly able to compete with and in this opinion he was supported by the highest
kimm,-;rir in the world. Every facility given to authorities. That law was to provide settlements and.
IN Yana with all nations extended Commerce, maintenance for younger children, Now, what did they
ttp:: /111,1 e nded with universal good. do in return for that? If they did anything, let them
..‘let'v",:RlNG could see no necessity for continuing show it. He (Mr. Villiers) did something in return
lt.e/i.eeetenity on tanned leather. for his office, and he would venture to say that it could
Sp,kll(t{.4l)HY would not press the subject after what not be done for less than was paid. lie wanted to know
tytiltve- from the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of what the landed interest had done? They benefited
ittlttrZtent and the Noble Lord the Member for their property without working, If they were to be.cle-
lhpv* Gke, prived of that property, he would pity their condition.
kiki1*,111,17,41%11 then ordered strangers to withdraw, He would recontmeed the Hon. Member for Essex not
els.? lauee elr. Sergeant Murphy left the House amid to deal in personalities, for it could never be looked upon
Ste. Ver. as answering the public in favour of the present corn-law.
$ l'lly supportßY said if a division took place he should Mr. S. O'BRIEN said that the object of Hon. Gentle-
kittNe the proposition of the Government. men opposite was to got every thing cheap ; but the
t tii:.ll were then ordered to withdraw and the Com- question of cheapness was not the only question which
s'4",eeds when there appeared— they had to consider. There were many other conside-
-4 the remission of the duty
~. gelnst it.
lekttit ro Majority
—46 made at coercion in any society to which he belonged he
p t ee, Notion of the Government for the remission would resist it at once He could not but regret the
)4,41 was consequently curl( d. personal turn which the discussion ha 1 taken.
leit.(sednaieeion into the gallery, we found Mr, COBDEN said the Hon, eenth-cinan had laid
Nikki JAN on his legs, moving that lard be omit- down the principles of the free traders as that of olseap-
tte the eue list of articles upon which it was proposed ness. He (Mr. Cebden) would venture to correct the
‘ltt 4rtee st'mes duties should be repealed. Every Eng- phraseology of the Hon. Gentleman. The free-traders
Yve.ertwas interested in the question; and especially desired to obtain the greatest possible abundance of all
Vrltit"; leas
peasant and small farmer affected by the those articles which were eesential to the comfort of mars.
keekikilettlt propesal Although the duty of 2s. per if by cheapnees the Hon. Gentleman meant abundance,
h-'r a " z!PPear small,. to persons of small weans the then the) were perfectly agreed. Now, if the object of'
to se, es aim
kt ete tk port ant. The loss of a protection of 2e. the free-traders wee to obtain abnadanee, then that of
ii.l.tleie. "c home producer, would be a serious one the Hon. Gentleman opposite must be to produce
'keit G. atr classes
1 0 -zap 11/ : scarcity.—(No, no.) Then what was it ? Dearness
h Le ei, ' i did not think that any case had been and scarcity were the same thing. Was not the iniquity
44, Etb, 1 rejecting the Government proposal. This of the present system apparent when those who advo
iiiketil of aV,ele of -great importance to the manufac rated it- did not -dare to face their own principles? A
:v 114{fult! country. A new application of this change, however, was coming over Hon. Gentlemen op.
i'k ice "een discovered which rendered the posite. Agr ater change had come over them within the
i4e,ittq en Pitertieularly desirable. By the exhaus- last two months than had previously taken place in two
111 1/Y oi. r°lll lard it would be of great utility
th e th r. years. This was shown by the, exhibition which th.e
ektitieeeeri e finer branches of machinery. Looking Hon. Baronet the Member for Essex had indulged in
eie° Nu "cc of the last two years, he was convinced that night. It must be a bad case indeed which
te 4114 rY would be inflicted upon any class of the required personalities for its support.—(Hear, hear.)
ki!.--/ii, if the House sanctioned the proposed The Hon. Member for Lancashire could, no doubt, sit in
P.
,it .`qletiar hear.) that House as long as he liked, for he was one of the
met'ltte 4E'nenS,ON supported the Government proposal. most consistent of his party, and one of that Hon. Mein-
ti7telniei r'o ATE said the people of the United bees arguments was, that lard was necessary for time use
~re De Lheir ated that they would be able to make lard of' the manufacturers of Lancashire, and that, therefore,
tethseeerl'aPle cammodities. It was impossible that English manufactured lard should be protected. But he
ethey United sof this country could compete with those (Mr. Cobden) begged to say that those manufacturers
!i5lO r'ere k tates, when the latter had such facilities did not consume lard, because they were paid well
lePtcett!el neeen,,,own to have for the production of hogs. enough to enable them to use butter; but it was the
tektie leg ei'''Thi-lAM said he could not refrain from farmer and agricultural labourers who, from their low
Ot; lee : sentiments on the question before the rate of wages, could not afford to use butter, were corn-
IN)), likonsielered the manufacturing representa • gelled to buy lard.—(Hear, hear.) Well, now, he would
1,: s °lake ° jacks in the box, presenting themselves aslc, was it not deplorable to think that lion. Members,
ei 4,l4'eseestt °f the country.—(Laughter.) Although
ems tee ative who were so anxious for the welfare of the farmers,
:rt,`•?, not of an agricultural constituency,
Vile e go with the ultra party—(Hear)— or who professed to be such, would not allow
ke, eons.hecenratiantly forcing themselves on the notice
ti;
kt;,
atia kS ir this article to come into the country at a cheap
rate ?—(Hear, hear.) lint many of those agricultural
Otee_aeoeet l'sit,Y.—(llear, hear.) When the Right Members opposite who were such advocates for protee-
R. Peel) brought forward these,
01 ii °alai very great measuree they were—ana tion, had not said a word upon this subject, but left the
defence of it to be carried on by the Hon. Member for
e s • NI
te of °a
e_ Interest would he believed, profit by Essex in
titio,;l iii,4_la every other interest in this country— personalities.—(Cheers) Now, suppose he
(Mr. Cobden) was to go down to Lancashire to-morrow,
sett44,44t iket"tt Friends said to him, at the conclusion what would the constituents say to him of those Hon.
Iv eielvhet e° n• Baronet's speech, "We are all in
ele .
ireere,,ts there for us?" His immediate reply Members who would not let them have cheap lard while
ttlhtteie aet -t" 'ln nothing for you."—(G mat laugh- they could not afford butter ?—(hear, hear.) Why
they would stare at him with astonishment, and ask him
ll 4t Ile 1,„ e tell you
" (continued the lio- could such be the fact.—(Laughter.) But to be serious,
ihte:it he 441itlee--pa'rQiri, with almost dramatic action), he we uld say to the alvocates of protection opposite that
'I Dubes site aril", you have at thi,s time three whether they gained nothing- or whether they gained
tat Coeeeelie___,leng. You have the Conciliation hum- 10,000/. individually a year by it, they should not sup-
Meek"t.gaede"aer)—the Anti-Corn-law League
O garden
Theta , 13 t a Protective dui on this article of universal con-
e.*. heinous in re, and the I roh -Pudor House s'uoner ptio.n.—.(Hear, hear.)
to hi _oto in Bond-street.—(Great laughter.) I Mr. DARBY was sorry that this subject had created
w it q
~ .
,Y constituents
4 th: 4„,i-sltior, of and to the country-:-I. am such a prolonged discussion, and he begged to assure
self-defence—l have been driven the Hon. Member for Stockport, that Hon. Members on
tlikl'i -,,p4htenit th'3 sword is drawn.—(The remainder his side of the House had just as much to complain of—
keit Br havee ,way lost amidst roars of laughter.)— with regard to the language that had been used,--.
tel",Y este all this protection society, the members Of (Hear, hear.) As far as he (Mr. Cobden) was con-
voi,:!tre,tie their d"?leelen and Members of Parliament. cerned, he would say, that upon any occasion when
cte kr_ arid te letates to the minor associations in the subjects of this sort were brought forward, he
th:tikiZt lieerutese minor associations take, I contend, a would vote upon them as he conceived his duty
etl,erier,) / d uPon themselves with respect to us.—
ei Lk, 'these' .° not bait one inch of my adherence to called upon him to do.—(Hear, hear.) He begized to
, j 4 tul, - Interel
1 atiee Inert ea._ 4 1 but I never will be one of these remind the Hon. Member for Stockport of the principle
laid down by Mr. Huskisson, which was to this effect,
tts'N et._'e of artu°lll I have described. Let me take as applied to the article of lard, that he (Mr. Husk's-
-gt re eceie„, agricultural society —(Hear, hear.)
sPect " a letter . " ' •
fur
tn.. c from one. Now I entertain
.Y county and try constituents, and If •n this coun-
cshorei)awasd, anxious that the working people should have
produced
event menu acturers 1
y i Abut
tr in order to p these manufacturers 1)611