The Sun.
London, England, 1861-07-12 00:00:00

THE LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 12, 1861.

plementary system recommended by the commissioners was
the same as that recommended by the noble lord and by him-
self ; it recognised the necessity for local aid and assistance,
and for local funds. The commissioners advised a county
rate. He had on various occasions advised a parochial rate.
He would not now enter into the question of the compare •
tive expediency of a parochial or county rate, but in prin-
ciple they were all agreed that local aid and control were
necessary. It had always been predicted that the expenses
of the existing system would gradually become larger
than the house could bear, and already had that prediction
been fulfilled. The sum granted by this house every
year for the promotion of national education had increased
from £30,000 in 1839 to £830,000 in 1859. From that time
it had retrograded ; he was sorry to say that many allow-
ances had been reduced. The time had come when the
Minister had said that the grant must go no further, and
that diminished grants must henceforth be proposed. A
most valuable class of schools—the refuge—which had ren-
dered the most important aid to thousands of poor children,
had received notice that they were no longer to enjoy the
assistance now extended to them after the close of the pre-
sent year. A more unwise economy had never, he thought,
been practised, and he deeply regretted it. (Hear, hear.)
In the present estimate there is a large, and, as he thought,
a most unfortunate decrease in the grant for reformatories
and ragged schools, the grant beingl9,7oo, and the decrease
from last year no less than £8,200. The class benefited by
ragged schools was peculiarly entitled to the consideration
of the house, but looking at the question only as one cf
pounds, shillings, and penoe, he contended that no money
should be spent more economically or to better advantage
than that bestowed on those schools. Last year he had
made an appeal in their favour, but he was sorry to say it
had been sternly refused by the right hon. gentleman oppo-
site (Mr. Lowe). They had, however, last year been asked
for a grant of upwards of £lOO,OOO for the cultivation and
improvement of science and art. He had no objection to
grants being made for that purpose, but he did object to
those grants being accompanied by a declaration that they
could no longer afford grants for the elementary instruction
of those who were too poor to educate themselves. (Hear,
hear.) He could give an illustration of the working of this
grant for the promotion of science and art. Examinations
were held in that department in different parts of the coun-
try, and last December one of those examinations took
place at Brighton. His youngest son, who was at school
at Brighton, and who had a considerable taste for drawing,
became a competitor. A first cousin of the boy also cora•
peted, and they both of them had the luck to gain prizes.
Those prizes were paid for out of the grants passed by this
house. (Hear, hear.) He would ask the house what consis•
tency there was in granting such a large sum for such a pur-
pose, when they saw by the report on the table that there were
15,000 schools languishing for want of funds to enable them
to give elementary education. (Hear, hear.) He thought he
could not mention a more apt illustration than that of his
own son, and the facts showed that the present system im-
peratively required an alteration. (Hear, hear.) He held
that this question was most important as bearing upon the
business on which they were about to enter, namely, the
annual grant for eduoation. Whatever might be the merits
of the present system—and he had not denied them—it
would be impossible to expect that the educational require-
ments of the country could be adequately met by this sys-
tem alone. (Hear, hear.) He thought ,the able report of
the commissioners had proved to demonstration that the
present system under which the education of the masses
was assisted must be still more assisted by a further grant.
(Hear.) He did not intend now to press the Government to
give their opinion upon the report, because he could not
deny the difficulties which surrounded the subject, though
he bad often urged its importance—(hear)---and therefore
it would be most unreasonable to expect any Government to
have made up their minds on a report which had been
issued only a few months. All he would ask was that the
Government should consider the valuable contents of the
report during the recess, with a view to legislate on the sub-
ject in the next session of Parliament. The noble lord, the
Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and the noble duke, the Se-
cretary for the Colonies, were members of the commission,
and that would lead the house to hope that the Government
would found upon the report a measure which would be
satisfactory to the house and the country.
Mr. HENLEY said he cordially coincided in the recom-
mendation which his right hon friend had given to the Go-
vernment, that in the coming recess they would seriously
consider this large and valuable report—(hear, hear)—and
he thought he might say that no man would be more than
himself satisfied with the judgment the Government would
come to in legislating upon it. He was not surprised that
his right hon. friend had—indeed, it would have been un-
natural if he had not—congratulated himself on the report
of the commissioners, because there were many parts of it
which sanctioned the course of action which he had recom-
mended on secular education. His right hon. friend bad
read passages of the report to the house which showed that
the recommendations of the commissioners were identical
in principle with those which he had recommended. He
would ask the house to seriously consider what those re-
commendations were. The commissioners, after discussing
the propositions upon which the measures of the Manchester
school and others were founded, said that they were all
framed with remarkable skill in every detail, but that they
had Caned partly. harkwAscux faaa wsk...p.srawa mould nnt-pravide
the funds, and partly because they interfered with religi-
ous teaching in the schools. (Hear.) The commissioners
further expressed an opinion that the calling forth of local
action was an essential requisite to success. He (Mr.
Henley) would be surprised if the local action which the
commissioners proposed would not be found upon examina-
tion to interfere with the religious character of the schools.
His right hon. friend said that the expenses of the present
system must be supplemented in some way, and so said the
commissioners ; and it came to this, that so much ahead,
about 205., was to be paid for every child that could read
and write, and the amount for each school would have
to be ascertained by a county board and local examiners
consisting of schoolmasters. The amount required would
have to be paid out of the county rates. Now,
if that were all that was required to make the present sys-
tem perfect, why not do it at once, without waiting further
legislation next year ? It should be remembered that the re-
port throughout the length of it showed that the opinions
of the commissioners were nearly balanced—(hear)—and
that they supported the most conflicting and contradictory
views. They said the present plan of the Education Board
was the only one by which it was possible to secure the re-
ligious character of the system. The commissioners did not
enter upon a proof of their assertions, but said it was enough
for their purpose to say that that was their deliberate opi-
nion. (Hear.) The commissioners in another part of the re-
port said that their inquiry impressed them with the con-
viction that no other system than the present was practica-
ble in the present state of religious feeling in England. That
was an important admission. (Hear, hear.) Then they came
to the recommendation of the commissioners as to how pub-
lic assistance ought to be given to schools. Now his right
hon. friend had thrown it out, almost as a matter of reproach,
that there were 15,000 schools, educating 1,200,000 or
1,300,000 children, carried on without the aid of public
money. But he (Mr. Henley) could not understand why
people should not be allowed to educate themselves and their
neighbours if they thought fit so to do. (Hear, hear.) Why
should they be paid public money if they could do without
it ? (Hear.) His right hon. friend said he saw that every-
thing which he had desired should be done was coming
about, and that he was now satisfied with the number of
children at school, but that he wanted to improve the qua-
lity of education. He (Mr. Henley) thought that if they
showed the people the right way to proceed and then left
them alone, they would arrive at a satisfactory result. The
commissioners did not say ono word about religious teach-
ing in their conditions for public money grants. They were
that the schools should be properly ventilated, that they
should be drained ; that there should be eight square feet
to every child ; that the schools should be open to inspec-
tion, and that they should be favourably reported upon.
Those were the conditions of the commissioners, and they
recommended, under the head of public relief rendered ac-
cording to their scheme, that the funds should be provided
from the general taxation of the country and from the county
rates. (Hear,) The report showed the rate per head of
relief, and the circumstances under which it should be paid
to the schools. Now all these were serious matters when
the Government was pressed to legislate upon them, and
they would require a very careful consideration on the part
of the Government, the house, and the country. (Hear.)
A committee had been appointed to watch the proceedings
of Parliament with reference to education, which commit-
tee included many influential names, and that committee
had come to conclusions widely different from those of the
commissioners. The National Society reported that there
was great danger to religion from the sort of education re-
commended by the commissioners. The commissioners had
taken too limited an area for their calculations, 108 parishes
assessed at £508,000, to which they arbitrarily added one-
third, making 1680,000. Had they adopted a wider basis
they would have come to entirely different conclusior s. He
believed the teachers employed were of too high attain-
ments, and if they had pupils who must leave at 10 or 11
years of age they had much better have teachers of
less cultivation. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the qua-
lity of education at present given there was great discre-
pancy between the reports of the commissioners and the
tables of the Privy Council,
the latter giving "excellent,"
' well," "fair," in thousands of cases in which the com-
missioners had reported the acquirements of the children
to be of the most superficial character. The reports were
re' her better in regard to writing than reading. Out of
7,486 schools, good reports were returned from 6,782, a very
large proportion. In regard to arithmetic, the numbers
were 7,459 schools and 6,235 good reports; and what ap-
peared to be still more inconsistent was the result in re •
Bard to grammara—out of 5,800 schools inspected 4,300
being reported as excellently well grounded in grammar.
teachers
returnchinersaudpupil forp 00il
teachers,of the 900,000 children taught, it would be
Nv
t.ell fat the
500
theyayear for these trained
only got one-fourth
Privy Council to take the matter iuto their consid t in
the recess to determine whether it would be better
oteach
alone
the higher branches of education. (Hear, hear.)
all the children to read, write, and cypher, and
leavßeu t
commissioners were anxious to make a little addition to the
the
qualifications of teachers, and it was a most curious one.
They said there was a capital defect in these trained mass
ters ; it used to be said that
"cleanliness was next to god-
liness," but the commissioners were of opinion that tho
next thing to godliness was political economy—laugh ter and

cheers) ; another capital defect in the teachers was a want
of knowledge of sanitary science ; and these were the quali •
jfications necessary for the instruction of children up to 10
or 11 years of age. One of the commissioners was formerly
a professor of political economy, and it was said that people
were apt to look with great favour upon what they did well,
and perhaps this might account for that part of the report.
pat there was one sentence in the report which, if the
whole of the rest was set aside, he believed would entitle the
commissioners to the thanks of the country, and that was
!their description of what a schoolmaster ought, and what
'he ought not to be. They say—" We may observe, in con-
clusion, that the occupation of an elementary schoolmaster
is not well suited for a young man of an adventurous, stir-
ring, or ambitious character, and that it is rather a misfor-
tune than otherwise when persons of that temper of mind
are led into it by the prospect which its earlier stages ap-
pear to afford of rising in the world socially as well as in-
tellectually. It is a life which requires a quiet, even temper,
patience, sympathy, fondness for children, and habitual
cheerfulness." A more beautiful description of what was ne_
cessary for a schoolmaster, and which so entirely accorded
with his judgment of what these teachers should be, he never
remembered to have seen. The commissioners went on to say
—" It wants rather good sense and quiet intelligence than a
veryinquisitive mind or brilliant talents, and the prospects
which it affords appear well calculated to attract the class of
sons best fitted for it." He asked the right hon. gentleman
the Vice-President of the Board of Education, and the house,
whether;the system now practised for training these school-
masters was likely to secure such men as come within these
descriptions. They took the quickest child, with the greatest
precocity of intellect, and of the greatest energy, and forced
him in a kind of hot -bed of instruction as a pupil• teacher
till he went into the training school, and when he got into
the training school the process of forcing still went on. The
country paid £lOO,OOO a-y ear to these training colleges, and
there was no doubt the training colleges were obliged to
come to the house for this large sum of money, because a
very large proportion of the community out of doors—the
people who supported the 15,000 schools—said they did not
get the article they wanted—that the article was too high.
If the training schools were to produce an article that would
suit the 15,000 schools they might depend upon it that the
same elements that supported the schools would prevent the
demand upon the public purse for the support of the training
schools. (Hear, hear.) But if they would have Oxford and
Cambridge men at the head of these institutions, and tested
the qualifications of the teachers by examination papers of
such a character that half the members of that house would
turn their backs upon them unable to answer the questions—
(a laugh)—and these qualffidations, let it be remembered,
were for the education of children of ten or eleven years of
age only—it behoved those who had the charge of the grant
to look closely into the matter, and to tell the house in an-
other year how far they agreed and how far they disagreed
with the commissioners, and whether they thought that the
addition of political economy and sanitary science to the
present requirements would make the trained teachers more
likely to buckle down to the difficult task of teaching young
children reading and writing—(hear, hear)—and whether
the forced system of educating pupil teachers was likely
to produce " even temper, patience, sympathy, fondness
for children, and habitual cheerfulness." (Hear, hear.)
He had not had the experience that would enable him
to pronounce an opinion upon the matter—he merely stated
these things—he had looked carefully into the report, and
he saw these results, though the evidence the commissioners
had adduced did not lead him exactly to these conclusions.
He was only sorry that he had occupied so much of the time
of the house, but having made a strong appeal to the
Government in the direction of education, he could not help
saying a few words upon the subject. (Cheers.)
Mr. LOWE thought it would be for the convenience of
hon. members, and he was sure it would be for his own con-
venience, if he postponed his reply till the house went into
committee. .

hear.) The object of the Privy Council had been to create a ►
system and standard of education, and for this purpose they
had given capitation_ grants, whereby the school was entitled
to a certain sum of money for every child who attended the
school 176 times in the year. But they hid not perhaps taken
as much care of testing the results of tb e teaching and attend.
ance as they had of the teaching and attendance themselves.
It was quite possible that they might have erred in not
providing machinery for this purpose, and so far they
might have something to answer for, if the reading, writing,
and arithmetic of the scholars were not as good as they
wished. The commissioners brought a fourth charge against
the system, which could not be denied—that it was one of
great complexity. They had to pay 7,700 masters and
15,300 pupil teachers, in all 23,000 persons, and they did
this by post-office orders directed to the homes of the indi-
viduals. This was not without its advantages, but it led to
enormous expense and labour. Perhaps this was neces-
sary in the beginning of the system, but they might have
been wrong in adhering to it in its full complexity. They
had also to correspond with 6,000 sets of managers of
schools. The commissioners found another fault with the
system, which was that it did not—and probably could not
—cover the whole country; that there were large districts
in the land to which it had not penetrated. This was also
very true; but it was a :necessary concomitant of the sys-
tem of giving grants founded on voluntary efforts. These
were the faults which the commissioners found with the
system. He had no means of judging how far they were
right—how far the inspectors were right, or how the con-
flict between them was to be reconciled. Their recom-
mendations, however, were entitled to consideration
from these whose duty and wish it was to make the
department as perfect as possible. Notwithstanding
the fault found with the present system the com-
missioners recommended that it should be continued. He
would not say that in that they expressed the opinion of the
whole country, or that of philosophers and abstract
thinkers, but he believed they expressed the views of those
to whom the existence of general education in this country
was due. If the Government spent £4,800,000 in educating
the people private liberality had spent double that sum, and
he felt persuaded that the question of education would be
regulated by the opinion prevalent among those in whose
hands the system was now. As long as they who paid the
money considered that the present system was the best, so
long would it be continued. (Hear.) He might, therefore,
say at once, that there was no intention on the part of the
Government to infringe on the organic principle of the sys-
tem, he meant the denominational origin, it being founded
on the support of the religious bodies—the system of grants
from a central office in aid of local subscriptions and the
principle of inspection. There was no intention of change in
any of these respects—(hear)—and so far it was the deter-
mination of the Government to continue it unimpaired. The
next point was, how they should remedy the faults pointed
out; and in order to find the remedy he looked into the re-
port itself. The diagnosis of the commissioners was good,
and he wished to know if they supplied a cure. First, as
to the question of expense, they recommended the abolition
of the book grants, and they originated a scheme which
might relieve the grant from the central board. But as it
consisted of a transfer of payment from the central to county
boards, it was a transfer like the late Mr. liston's joke,
who used to fine himself by transferring his money from
his right-hand pocket to his left-hand one. (Laughter.)
Next, with a view to remedy the complexity of the present
system, the defects in teaching, and the imperfect develop •
ment of the system over the country, they recommended
two kinds of grants, one paid out of the fund of the Go-
vernment, and the other out of the county rate. The fund
at the disposal of the Government for capitation grants
they proposed should be paid in certain proportions not
easy to be understood, as the children were under a certifi-
ficated or under a pupil teacher. That was the plan for the
one. The plan for the other was that a county board should
be appointed, that they should appoint the schoolmaster,
that ho was to examine the children, and that a certain
sum of money should be paid for each child who answered
satisfactorily in reading, writing, and arithmetic. It seemed
that that plan had the support of the right hon. gentleman
opposite. [Sir J. Pakington—l did not say so.] Well, it was
asked if the. Government would bring in a bill to effect that
object. Now the house would observe that the duty thrown
upon the county board by this plan was purely ministerial.
They had no discretion. The only discretion was in the
schoolmaster, who might make a report favourable or other-
wise, and so influence the amount to be paid out of the
county rate, Having done this the rest was merely
mechanical. The advantage of local control was good, be-
cause it led to economy and closeness of management. But
the proposal he was now considering seemed to retain the
evil and reject the good, for it imposed on the counties the
burden of payment but did not give them the indemnity
of management. (Hear.) Neither, as far as he could
judge from the tone of the house, was there any disposition
to impose on the count y rates any additional burden.
(Hear.) These grants were to be given to all schools, not
merely to the schools in connection with the board but to
ordinary adventure schools. In this respect he thought
they might take a wise lesson from the history of the capi-
tation grants. Those grants were given in the first in-
stance in order to afford assistance to the small rural
schools. But as soon as they were given to these schools
others applied for them, and it soon became a question how
L. be defined- T. LI.. c.d.—U.-P-li', Y

Council settled the matter by giving the capitation grants
to all schools. The result was that they were now absorbed
by the large schools in towns, which did not want them,
and to which it was never intended that they should be
assigned. (Hear, hear.) He was afraid that the result
would be the same in the present case, and that under the
semblance of giving aid to the poor schools an unneces-
sary augmentation of the public expenditure would take
place. He could not, therefore, acquiesce in the justice of
the proposal that they should give aid to the private ad-
venture schools. (Hear, hear.) He said this indepen-
dently of the objection that they ought not to enter into
competition with private teachers. One of the great
disadvantages of the present system was; that it went
into opposition with itself. They made a statement, and
because other people could not keep up to that standard
thay made a second, and thus raised an opposition
to themselves. (Hear, hear.) Then, they were asked to
give grants to the ragged schools. He now turned to that
Part of the recommendations which had reference to the
capitation grants to certificated masters and pupil teachers,
and which might be met by a minute of the Privy Council.
He could hardly adopt the proposal made at present. First,
it would break up the system of pupil teachers, and this,
for two reasons: at present the average payment for every
pupil teacher was £l5, and if you only,paid him 2s. 6d. for
every 30 children you would pay him less than £4. Now the
striking off of this sum from the salary of the pupil teacher
would be such a blow that he was afraid it would be impos-
sible to carry on the system after it. It would amount to a
revolution of the whole system. (Hear, hear.) The second
reason was that the main difference between the monitors
and the pupil teachers was that the former were employed
by the job, whereas the engage oient of the latter extended
over five years. For the first two years the pupil teacher
was of little value, but for the last three years he was a
valuable junior teacher. It was essential that they should
continue to be apprenticed for five years, and it would
destroy their efficiency if they were to be replaced by moni-
tors for a year or so, then to be turned off. With regard to
expense, he hoped to lay before the house in a few days a
minute showing all the reductions which had been made,
and he trusted that something more might be done in that
way without impairing the efficiency of the system. •He
wished to call the attention of the house to a point to which
he had never before adverted—he alluded to the position
cccupied by the National Society towards the Privy Coun-
cil. Tlt society was founded for the education of children
in the doctrines of the Church of England. He had no fault
to find with the rules of that society, and the council had
entered into a concordat with the society with full know-
ledge of their terms. It was, however, left to the discretion
of the managers of the schools whether they should adhere
to those rules or not.