The Sun.
London, England, 1859-02-04 00:00:00

cult position in which he was placed. (Hear, hear.) I
derive, my lords, increased satisfaction from the success
which has attended the efforts of that noble earl, and the
zeal and ability which he had displayed, from the circum-
stance that—although he was appointed to his present posi-
tion by my predecessors in office—l was one of the first to
introduce him into public life as successor to Lord Metcalfe
in Jamaica, and subsequently in the Government of Canada.
Earl GREY—I beg the noble earl's pardon. Lord Elgin
was not appointed Governor of Canada until after I had be-
come Secretary of State.
The Earl of DERBY—I can assure the noble earl that I
have no wish to deprive him of any credit which might
accrue to him from having appointed Lord Elgin to the
governorship of Canada. It is quite true Lord Elgin did
not succeed. Lord Metcalfe in that office until the noble earl
became Secretary of State, but it was well known previously
that Lord Metcalfe would be obliged to resign office in con-
sequence of the state of his health, and Lord Elgin was
looked upon as the person who was to supply his place,
Earl GREY—When the noble earl left the Colonial-
office Lord Metcalfe was in a state of health which rendered
his retirement from office necessary, but nothing had been
done to supply his place. Mr. Gladstone subsequently be-
came Secretary of State for the Colonies, and he appointed
General Cathcart; who was Commander of the Forces in
Canada, as Governor-General, with the concurrence of the
noble earl, inasmuch as in the state of affairs which at the
time prevailed in reference to the Oregon question it was
considered expedient that the supreme civil and military
authority should be united in the same person. At the ex-
piration of six months after the noble earl resigned his seals
of office Lord Elgin was still governor of Jamaica, and there
was no question of his resigning that position ; but when I
became Secretary of State I was of opinion that the aspect
of afairs in Canada required the presence of a governor of
great civil experience, and I therefore advised the recal of
Lord Cathcart, and the appointment of Lord Elgin in his
place. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of DERBY—I shall not pursue the question
further. I may be in error ; but, whether that be or be not
the case, the satisfaction with which my personal friendship
for Lord Elgin causes me to regard the manner in which he
has performed the duties which were recently committed to
his charge can undergo no diminution. (Hear, hear.) But,
to advert to the other topics of which mention is made in
the Royal Speech, I can assure your lordships that if I have
as yet omitted to allude to the important subject of India,it is
not because I in the slightest degree undervalue its magni-
tude, rdo not fully appreciate the great and distinguished
services of those men, civilian as well as military, by whose
efforts such great results have been attained in that country.
(Cheers.) I feel confident your lordships, without a single
exception, rejoice at the success that has already crowned
their unparalleled and inimitable exertions, and that you will
concur with her Majesty in hoping for the fulfilment of the
expectation—which God grant may at no distant day be
realised I—that her Indian empire may be completely
pacified, and that we may be able to devote all our
energies—and I am sure there is no object nearer to the
heart of the Sovereign—to the improvement of that too long
neglected portion of her dominions, and to the obliteration
"of all differences between the various classes of its inhabi-
tants. (Cheers.) Nor, my lords, do I think we need
despair that that time will soon arrive; for, although the
unhappy rebellion which lately broke out in India still con-
tinues, yet it it does so only to a certain extent; everything
like organised resistance has been put down, and our troops
are now, I am happy to say, engaged rather in pursuing
bands of desperate robbers than in contending against any
formidable military display. (Hear, hear.) And now, my
lords, I come to a most important topic, to which my noble
friend opposite also adverted in the course of his speech,
and in reference to which it affords me much pleasure to
think I can follow him throughout the entire of his obser
vations without feeling that there exists the slightest dif-
ference of opinion between us as to the course which it is
desirable that the Government of this country should pur-
sue. The subject is ona, no doubt, of considerable delicacy,
but, notwithstanding that such is the case, I feel that it is
due to your lordships, in the critical position in which mat-
ters stand, that I should speak with respect to it plainly
'and unhesitatingly. (Cheers.) lam fortunately in a posi-
tion to do so, because in the present state of Europe, and
with respect to that portion of it which now gives just
cause for anxiety, England has no separate interest to sub-
serve, no revenge to gratify, no rankling ambition to urge
her on; and above all, and. I say it emphatically, because
she has no secret engagement with any Power whatsoever
which would interfere with, fetter, or hamper her free
action. (Cheers.) But there are, my lords, principles which.
her Majesty's Government have never shrunk from express-
ing, and to which they have over and over given utterance
not in any hesitating terms, but with that frankness of
speech which my noble friend thinks we might have some
difficulty in using towards the Emperor of the French, but
which we have not abstained from using towards all par-
ties, in order that they may be placed fully and distinctly
in possession of the views which we entertain. And if, my
lords, in the Queen's speech allusion has not been made to
the state of apprehension under which Europe at the pre-
sent moment labours, it is simply because in them England
has no direct concern; no direct concern. I mean, beyond
that which a great commercial and maritime power must
always have in the general peace and prosperity of Europe.
I am enabled, moreover, to say that, so far as the informa-
tion of her Majesty's Government goes, not only are wo
upon perfectly friendly terms with all the great Powers, but
that I know of no question at present pending between any
of those Powers beyond the reach of the most ordinary
diplomatic intercourse, or which could in the slighest de-
gree justify a recourse to the fatal arbitrement of war.
Nevertheless, my lords, it is not to be doubted that there
are circumstances in the present state of Europe, and in the
attitude assumed by various Powers, which are calculated
to arouse serious apprehension and alarm. The state of
Italy is one of constant danger to the peace of Europe. I
concur entirely in the description which has been given by
my noble friend of the position of that unhappy country, of
the impossibility of realising that enthusiastic dream of
Italian unity which at all times and under all circum-
stances has been indulged in, but which is never likely to
be fulfilled, simply because it is not hatred of foreigners,
but internal dissensions and internal differences of opinion
among the Italian States, which, if even there were no
pressure from any foreign Government, would render such
an union an absolute impossibility. (Hear.) I entirely con-
cur with my noble friend as to the point at which he con-
siders that the greatest danger to the peace of Europe arises.
It may be true that the normal state of almost the
whole of Italy is that of a slumbering volcano, of which
the internal throes are exhibited by muttered rumblings,
and which at any moment is liable to burst forth in an
eruption, and to overwhelm the country in a torrent of de-
struction ; but it is not in Lombardy nor in Naples that the
main danger exists. My noble friend drew a just picture
of the state of government in Lombardy. Those provinces
have little to complain of in the administration of govern-
ment; and, of late years more especially, the labours of the
Austrians haVe been unremittingly applied to improve the
condition of the country. The people may have certain
grievances and certain causes of discontent, but the main,
the single, the irremediable grievance is that they are placed
under the yoke, and have to submit to the government of a
different and, as they consider, of a foreign nation. (Hear,
hear.) That is a source of discontent which absorbs all
others, and in anxiety to overcome which Lombardy has too
often forgotten that of which my noble friend has properly
*minded us namely, that struggles for Italian freedom have
terminated in every case simply in a change of masters,
and that the dream of Italian independence has never been
—and it is difficult to say when it ever can be—substan-
tially realised. 'Whether, under these circumstances, the
Lombard provinces, rich, prosperous, and fertile as they
are, are a source of strength to Austria, and form a desir-
able possesssion for her, I do not pretend to say ; but of this
there can be no doubt —and cordially do I subscribe to the
doctrine of my noble friend on the subject—that with the
internal government of Lombardy, with the manner in
which Austria exercises her dominion over her Italian pro-
vinces, be it wise or unwise, be it mild or severe, be it pru-
dent or imprudent, we have nothing to do. (Hear, hear.)
By inheritance, by long-continued possession, by the faith
of treaties which, if mace broken through, must cause in-
calculable mischief to the tranquillity of Europe—by all
these ties Austria has acquired a hold over her Italian pro-
vinces of which neither we, nor any nation, under any plea
or upon any prerext, has a right to deprive her. (Cheers.)
My lords, I say nothing of the state of Naples. The Go-
vernment of Naples is one repugnant and abhorrent to all
our notions of Government, and quite unsuited, at all events,
to any other atmosphere than that which actually sur-
rounds it. (A laugh.) But, at all events, in Naples
there has been no necessity on the part of the Sovereign
to put down discontent by the interposition and con-
trol of foreign troops. (Hear, hes ..) I do not say
that, if any of the nations of Italy rose to redress
wrongs, whether real or imaginary, exaggerated or other-
wise, it would be the part of this country—on the contrary,
I deny that it would be the interest or the duty of this coun-
try—to interpose, either for the purpose of maintaining
order, or of encouraging the efforts of a struggling people
and of overthrowing the existing dynhsty. My opinion—an
opinion which I have never shrunk from avowing—has al-
ways been that, in matters of this kind, the de facto Govern-
ment must ever be respected by this country, and that in
our relations with other nations we have no sort of right, as
we have no sort of interest, in interfering as to the form of
that Government, and the persons who administer it.
(Hear, hear.) It is not in Naples, however, it is not in Lom-
bardy, that we must look for the principal cause of anxiety
and alarm, but in that unhappy portion of Central Italy
which is subject to the temporal jurisdiction of the spiritual
head of the Roman Catholic Church. That is the real plague
spot of Italy. (Hear, hear.) It is in this point of the Penin-
sula that discontent rises to its height, and there it hes risen
to such a height that it is notorious to all the world that, if
public feeling were not kept down by the presence of two
fereign armies, all the respect and veneration which are paid
to the Sovereign Pontiff in his spiritual capacity would not
prevent the overthrow of his tottering throne, or be held to
compensate in the minds of his subjects for the weak and
paltry oppression by which the Government of that country
is sustained. (Hear.) My lords, it is from the presence of
these two armies—not placed there in either case to uphold
the liberties of Italy, but only jo
int
efforts maintain by their
efforts an incompetent Government—that the real danger of
serious disturbance in Italy is to be apprehended. Now, upon
both the Powers by whom these armies are kept, her Ma-
jesty's Government—whether effectually or not I do not pre-
tend to say, nor will I affirm that I entertain any sanguine
expectation as to the result—have pressed with all the ear-
nestness of friendship the necessity of coming to some under-
standing with regard to the advice they shall tender to the Pa-
pal Government for diminishing the grounds of dangerous dis-
content which under the present system must exist there.
I mention these two powers especially, because it is their
mutual jealousy which keeps alive the real source of danger,
because they are the two great Roman Catholic Powers of
Europe, and because, both as having local interests, and
also as being able to speak with a degree of authority and
of influence which no other States could assume, they are
obviously the parties whose union and whose harmonious
action would be most likely to be effectual with the Papal
Government. (Hear, hear.) It would be idle for any
Protestant country to pretend to proffer its advice, but we
have assured both Austria and France that if they will
combine to give salutary counsel, our best endeavours will
not be wanting to stscond . their efforts for the amelioration
of the internal administration of the Papal States. (Hear.)
My lords, there is one part of Italy in which, as my noble
Mend very emphatically said, up to the present moment we
have taken the deepest interest. I allude, I need not say,
to that small but heroic State—one of far greater import-
ance than its geographical limits indicate—the kingdom of
Sardinia. (Hear, hear.) That has been hitherto a bright
spot amid the surrounding gloom—(hear, hear)—and there
it has been proved experimentally that the concession of a
large amount of constitutional liberty does not impair the
loyalty of the people to their Sovereign, while it contributes
largely to the prosperity of the country. Supported by the
sympathies of all the free nations in the world, strong in
the consciousness of its own rights and of its own internal
union, the policy which ought clearly to huva been pursued
by such a State was to busy itself with internal improvo-
monts—(henr, hear)—not to maintain an army dispropsr-
tionate to its finances and ruinous to its credit—(hlpar, hear)
—not to trust to the efforts of its army, however valiant,
but to rely on the sympathies of the world at large, and on
the faith of the treaties which secure its dominions—treaties
precisely the same as those under which Austria holds her
Italian provinces. (Hear, hear,) Such was the obvious
policy of Sardinia, and such was the policy by which, in
the face of, and in strong, glowing contrast to, every other