The Sun.
London, England, 1857-08-12 00:00:00

fliE StrIC toNtION._ WFIDNEADAV LeVENING,
_AUGUiiT IVa lASI

meet, and especially in the noble lord, they ought to be ,
content to be guided by his opinion.
Mr. WHITESIDE agreci with the hon. member for
Buckingham that we all underrated the impottance of the
present crisis in India. SOnce be had last addressed the
house on this subj,,ct intelligeoc) of mot painful occur-
rences had been received ; he had heard from the hon.
member f rr Dublin and the hon. member for ArmaLh
that they bad relatives in the massacre at Delhi. Was
there to be no redress for ail that had occurred, and was
the House of Commons to adopt the pi i3y laid down by
the rnernbtr for Lambeth, and take it for granted that all
that was said and done by the Government was said and
done rightly and well. Thera was nothing the Govern-
ment could ask from that side of the house for the
defence of India that they woull nut grant; but the
remedy to be w'opted in this ease depended on the e xtent
of the disease, and the military force required in India de-
pended on the policy intended to be pursued by Govern-
ment in that country. He bad read, a fes days ag3, a
statement in a journal of great circulation which might
be translated and appear in the Indian papers, and be
read to the East Indian soldiers. This was the policy
recomm.nded by a writer who signed himself " Ano3-
Indian " :—" I am happy to hear that evidence is being
obtained both as to the Emperor of Delhi and the King
of Oude. It will be pleasant to save 250,0001. or
300,0001. a year in their forfeited pensions. I have some
hopes that the Nawah of Moorshedabad may be impli-

gone further and made more suggestions as to the orga-
nisation of the army, on which he would have been an
excellent authority, instead of cliafining himself to the
present state of affairs. But be wished to correct a state-
ment which he made as to the manner i❑ R h oh the rein-

forcements bad been sent out. They were not all sent out
in bailing ships, but it was thought advisable to send
come of them is sailing ships called clippers„ and the
ethers in auxiliary screw steamers. There were at least
12 or 13 auxiliary screw steamers employed, and they a 3
well as the clippers are all under a penalty to arrive in a
certain number of days ; and the time of arrival would
be the beet suited to the climate. He hoped also they
would arrive in time to be of service, and that they
would be perpetually pouring in, so as to astonish the
mutineers at the extent of our resources, which he was
told would have a great effect. With regard to the troops
being sent overland, he believed that the passage by the
Red Sea at this time would be noxinus to the health of
the troops, and therefore it was thought better to send
them by the usual route. They would arrive in the course
of September, and her Majesty's Government would not
have it on their consciences that they had neglected any
opportunity of sending out troops to India by the beet
means. In addition to the troops sent out from this
country there would be a large body of men called the
Purjatib levies, to the amount of from 39,000 to 40,000
men, all of whom he was told were to be depended upon,
and they had been organised by such men as Brigadier
Chamberlain and C ,lonel Nixon. But in mentioning the

cared t 0,,. That would save 120,0001. a year more.
OA.C3 again do allow me to plead earnestly that, instead
of now yielding to caste, and pottering about the " pre-
ju,lices" of the natives, our future policy should be an
unbending, stern, and avowed discouragement of every
thing opposed to civilisation, social morals, and Briti-h
supremacy. If we now issue a proclamation declaring
that, whereas caste has been used as a plea for sedition,
and whereas it is based on falsehood, and the British
Government regards all men aslborn. equal, therefore
henceforth it shall not be recognised in any form, the
whole undo population will bow, admit the justice of
our indignation, and this monstrous anti-social absur-
city will soon perish. I am not for letting the State
turn missionary ; but if our soldiers knock down every
fi thy idol they see, and lay every mu-jid level with the
ground, and if they pollute every shrine and Ilunder
every one which is worth plundering, I shall not be
sorry. For as to these " religions," what are they, i❑
fact, but lust, lies, treachery, murder, and social degra•
dation l I should like to see our government cause it
to be known that its past forbearance has been abused,
and that now Mahomedans and Hindoos must look to it
for no sort of countenance." He wanted to know if that
was the policy to be acted upon. The "AnLlo-Indian" was
of opinion that 50,00 C additional troops, in addition to
our present force, would not be more than sufficient to

names of the civil and military authorities, including the
two Lawrence?, the hon. and gallant general only men-
tioned those who were at the top of the tree, who were
in an exalted station ; but he (ttr. V. Smith)
could detail to the house such acts of heroism on the part
of young lieutenants and of men in civil positions, as
were he to do so, would gladden the hearts of Englis-
men, and make them proud of having such men for their
countrymen.

Mr. DISRAELI said he was rather surprised at tho
,one which had been adopted by the President of the

Board of Control in answering the observations of his

hon. and learned friend. He was not surprised that his
bon. and learned friend should take any opportunity of

denouncing the system of mismanagement of India
But what was the rejoinder of his right hon. friend
That he objected to these comments because they were
not making a party question of it ; that the criticisms
applied to previous governments as well as to him ; that
they did not apply to him perhaps as much as to
any one else; and he asked why they did not make a
party question of it instead of wasting their time in
showing that the most important dependency of the Bri-
tish empire was in danger of being lost. He (Mr. Dis-
raeli) thought the house was very much indebted to the
hon. and gallant general who had called tbeir attention
to this important subject. It was one that must occupy
their attention whatever might be the state of the ses-
sion and whatever might be the state of public business.
No public business could be more important. He could
not say that the answer of the noble lord gave him the
satisfaction that he desired. He would say of the
reply of the noble lord that he underrated our position
in India and overrated our position in Europe. He
thought he might state with the hon. baronet the
member for Buckingham that the state of affairs was
very much to be regretted. The Government, and the
country taking its tsne from the Government, did not
think tnere was that vast danger to the empire and na
Lionel power which in his conscience he believed existed
and which, though it ought not to appal us, was one
of which they ought to take full cognisance. There was
no greater mistake that a minister could make than te
undervalue public peril, certainly an English minister
could make no greater mistake. The English nation
was never so great as in peril. In prosperty they might
be accused of being ostentatious ; in their middle fortune
they might deport themselves unreasonaely ; but there
had never been a moment when a great responsibility
devolved on a people that they had not answered to the
occasion, and shown that matchless energy which had
enabled them to maintain their position among the
nations. The position of the noble lord was that the
emergency was not one of the magnitude that he (Mr.
Disraeli) believed it to be, or if the noble lord believed
it to be such, it was his opinion that he should veil its
hideous proportions from the people of this country.
It was there that he thought the noble lord made a great
mistake. The noble lord said it was only an affair of
pounds, shillings, and pence. Now that was not the tone
to take if it were really the fact that our Indian
empire was in danger. If it were in danger it was not
fur the noble lord to say that the resources at his dis-
posal were limited and that the measures he should adopt
must of course be proportionate. Now he did not want
to re-open a controversy which they had a fortnight ago,
when he introduced the subject of India. The views
that he expressed could not be answered by the observ-
ations of the hour, which coull not test their sound-
ness and authenticity, but as the question had been-
re-opened, ho might be permitted, in passing, to
make one or two observations. He thought he bad
a right to say that nought that had occurred since,
none of the information that had reached them from
India, had at all refuted the views that he then with
great humility laid before the house. He remembered
on that occasion the light hon. gentleman called him
to task because he ventured to point out the causes that
had led to an understanding between the Hindoo and
Mahometan princes, and had intimated that they were
dissaliefied with the government of India. The right
hon. gentleman then treated them as a monstrous lu
mation. He said no proof whatever was in their posses-
sion of such a feeling on the part of those princes, and
he treated it as a will idea that he should give expres-
sion to such a contingency. What was the news by the
next mail f That one Mahometan prince had been
arrested by the Indian government, and that one prince
on whom we relied had gone with his forces against us.
And it was only lately that he saw a letter from General
Hearsay, in which he stated that emissaries from all
the Hindoo princes were to be found in the ranks of the
army. lie (LIT.. Disraeli) ventured to say on that OC•la.
sion that our government was mistaken in treating this
merely as a military mutiny. He shoul I not enter into
that, but among the papers laid on the table yesterday,
he found a despatch from no less a person than the
lieutenant-governor of the North-Western Province, in
which he spoke of dissatisfaction among the great mass
of the population, and that he found it spreading to the
intelligent classes. He ventured then to call attention to
the tampering, as he expressed it, of the Legislative
Council of India with the religious prejudices of the
people, and he said there could be no doubt that from an
aggregate of circumstances great prejudice had b=on
produced in the minds of the population of India. Nosy
in the minutes of the list Governor-General of India,
the celebrated minutes of 220 paragraphs and 50 pages,
there would be found in page 12 a very brief annoeuce-
ment, which was spoken of as a matter of great iignifi
cance, that the boy Maharajah Dauleep Siug had be-
ccme a Christian, and that the daughter of the Rajah
of Coors had been baptised, our gracious sovereign being
the sponsor. That paragraph was translated into the na-
tive language, and circulated in every bazaar in toe
North-Western Province. With such evidence in their
hands, combined with many other circumstances to which
he would not now refer, who would say that the g iyern-
ment of India was exempt from that grave charge which
had entailed such vast consequences on England and on
India itself ? He doubted very much whether thenoble
lord, having overrated our position in India, was adopt-
ing measures adequate to meet the emergency. The noble
lord told them that the amount of troops which might
be expected soon to assemble in that country, and the
resources on which he relied, and he said if more were
wanted he would call parliament together. But what he
(Mr. Disraeli) wanted to impress upon the house waB,
that the present must be a disastrous campaign. Toe
hon, and gallant general expressed a hope that Delhi was
taken.

reconquer India. The policy recommended was a very
char one. I, was a policy of extermination—a policy
snakily, war with caste. And that policy had been pur-
sued bye the Government. They had changed the law of
inheritance and the law of marria;e. It was not to
be expected that old customs could be suddenly set aside
by edict. The disaffection which had manifested itself
in the shape of open mutiny had long been in efsteuee
and publicly declared in the native newspapers, which
had been writing sedition for months. The statements
in these papers had pointed out the disaffection arising
from the use of the cartridges, and the manner in which
that disaffection was spreading in the various provinces.
When statements of that kind were made, it was tune
not to inquire bnt to act. A letter writ'en by a gent'eman
at Calcutta on the la:,h of March, confirmed what ap-
peared in the printed papers under the date of Feb. 8.
It appeared from that letter that the number of white
men for the defence of Calcutta did not exceed 250, that
there was not a ship of war in eight, and that there was
no protection whatever for the shipping, except what
might have been afforded by a little ship of war belong-
ing to the King of Sardinia. The idea that had prevailed
in the minds of the people ever since the fatal decree of
1850 or 1851, which made war upoa ca,te, upon the laws
of inheritance and the fundamental cuetonas of the llin-
dons, was that the Government intended to overthrow
their religion and customs. Then with respect to the
withdrawal of troops, Lord Canning stated in his des-
patch of Feb. 7, that three regiments might be with-
drawn for the Chinese war, but in allowing that with-
drawal be was going to the utmost bounds of prudence.
At that time Lord Canning was receiving daily commu-
nications informing him of fresh mutinies, and then he
declared that the lest thing the G ivernment wfshed to do
was to interfere with caste or religion. The whole thing
had been a ridiculous blunder, for no steps ought to have
been taken in that direction without an adequate force
to carry them out. For a series of years the warnings of
the best military authorities had been neglected. Sir C.
Napier stated that 12,000 troops were required for the
defence of Delhi, where a magazine for the supply of our
troops should be established, and 10,000 men stationed
at Meerut for the support of Delhi. Although the Go-
vernment were in possession of information of what was
likely to take place in February, they had thought pro-
per to send troops from India to China, with which coun-
try we were at war, whilst the filmes of war were raging
from one end of Bengal to the other. It was not suffi-
cient merely to vote men and money, The policy to be
pursued ought to be clearly stated, and some one must be
made responsible for the consequences vvnich could be
ascribed to causes patent to every one. It might be easy
to recognise India, but would it be possible to hold that
oountry if the people knew their customs and ancient
laws were to be overturned I The affairs of India were in
a most awful and terrible condition, and the caueea of that
condition must be inquired into. \V hen a gentleman com-
manding a wing of the 53dRegiment at Ca'cutta, ordered
• a company of his troops to be provided with ten rounds
of cartridges, to dou'ele their guard, he was called to ac-
count for giving such an order ; and yet, when such pre-
cautions were considered necessary, a few days after-
wards the Governor-General was called upon to send
away three regiments. Having withdra Nu these troops,
the conduct of the men who were fighting against such
great odds would be critised, arid no doubt great sur-
prise would be expressed that Gen. Barnard bad not
done without means what could n it ho accomplished
unless large and efficient means were supplied. Re main-
tained that there had been no foresight, no watchfulness,
no judgment ; for if ordinary precaution had been taken,
the state of things in India must have been discovered.
Although the house was LON called upon merely to vote
men and money, he trusted the day was not far distant
when the principles on which India was to ho governed
would be stated and determined upon by Parliament—
when the voice of the House of the House of Commons
would be heard in such a manner as te conduce to the wel-
fare of England and the consolidation of our power in

may leaclrui again-st -any foe ; but we cannot lose our

clsic." (Loud cheers.) Gentlemen who were road in
the history of the middle ages, would know what the
eff,ct of excommunication used to be. (Hear, hear.)
They would recollect that when the Pope, in the pleni-
tule of his p ewer, excommunicated an emperor, that
sovereign ()out(' not find amongst his servants one that
would du a single menial office for him. (Rear, hear.)
Now, what excommunication was in the middle ages,
that was 10-e of caste t) a Brahmin at the present day.
Every one cf those men supposed that if he put these
unlucky cartridges into his mouth, his very mother
wool' shrink from him, and his father and brethren
would refuse to sit with him in the same room. (Cheers.)
Was it at all to be wondered at, then, that they wou d
rather die than submit to such a degradation ? (Cheers )
He (the gallant colonel) was not in the least apologising
for their conduct, ho was merely showing how it might
be ac;ounted for. (Hear, hear.) The fearful atrocities
at Meerut might all have been spared if common pru-
dence and knowledge of the native character had been
shown. When the 90 skirmishers of the 3rl Cavalry
(15 from each troop) were ordered t) parade and to
use hareal,ss cartridges they did not believe that
those cartridges were barmle,s ones. They begged their
native to go to their European officers, an 1 entreat them

Mr. Y. SMITH said, a'though the Government were '
anxious to get into commutes of supply, be could not
help entering his decided protest against the assertions
which had been made by the hon. member for Bucking-
ham (Sir 11. Verney), and rep-:ated by the hon. and leareed
member for Eani-killen (Mr. Whiteside), that the Go-
vernment were not a mare and conscious of the gravity
of the events which were occurring in India. They
were perfectly aware of the gravity of the prevent state
of affairs. But he doubted whether the hon. andlearned
member was equally conscious of that gravity when he
came down to the hou-e quoting scraps from newspapers
as if they were manifestoes from the Government ; and he
ceiteirdy expected that the hon. gentleman would have
concluded his first exzract by reading the signature of
"Palmerston," or his (lir. V. Smith) ; but after all the
hon. and learned gentleman was merely attempting to
fasten an anonymous letter on the Government. (Hear,
hear.) He repudiated the assertion that any scheme had
been adopted for the purpose of putting an end to caste,
and counteract and destroy all the institutions of the
people of India. Ile regretted that the hon. end
learned gentleman had troubled the house with so many
observations, particularly as they bad been much better
expressed in one of his prior speeches, and in that of the
right hon. gentlemen (Mr. Disraeli.) if the hon. and
learned gentleman had heard two or three sad stories, he
(Mr. &DUI]) had heard hundreds, but did not think it
would be right for the Government to assume a tone of
despondency, and excite additional alarm. (Hear, hear )
The system which had been pursued in India was one
for which the whole country was responsible. For the
last 20 years a determination bad t xisted to improve the
condition of India and its inhabitants, and to use it as
a field for religious improvement ; and when the Govern-
ment bad been acting slowly in that respect, it was not
fair to turn round upon them and accuse them of going
too fast. Instead of indicating remedies, it was a great
waste of time to throw out torrents of abuse against all
the Governments of India which had existed during the
last 20 years. If inquiry was needed, let inquiry be in-
stituted, and be would do everything to facilitate such
inquiry ; but the present object was to put out the fire
(Hear, hear ) It was said that the Government were
only asking for men and money. Why that was all that
was required at the present time, and there was but o
opinion on the subject. (Rear, hear.) With respect
to the alteration in the law of marriage, the hon. and
learned gentleman seemed to have overlooked the fact
that it. arose out of a petition from the Hindoos, and
basing put an end to the old system, it was quite natu-
ral that widows should b 3 allowed to marry again. Tne
b.OO. and learned gentleman was quite mistaken is at-
ltr,l_4!.olne want of foresight, arrangement, and activity to
"' vernment, and he was equally wrong in supposing
that in February they
ware aware of the events to which
he had alluded,
for they did not happen till February.
r.pithITESIDE said he meant the
India. government of
Mr. V. SMITH said that as soon as the government
of India were aware of the facts they at one adopted the
most effective remedies to
Peat a stop to the mischief.
The hon. and learned
gentleman had referred to anony-
mous authorities. In opporeferred to the statements of
tiliet9 those.ov authorities he
the Commander-in-Chief, who
did
not
trnor-General and
ser-
vices of any vessels at Calcutta or the retentiona) the
army. Lord Canning, it was true, stated that of the
he ceuld
not spare more troops for*China, but he did
not say he
was unable to spare the number which he sent to that
country. Then with regard to the opinions of Sir C.
Napier. No doubt the opinions of that gallant officer
were most valuable, but it was a great misfortune that
Delhi had been made a ma.aazine or arsenal, and it would
have been worse still if delve regiments had been
stationed there, for they
might have joined the muti-
neers. The accusations of the hon. gentleman against the
government of India bad not been sustained in any way.
He defied any man to show that Lord Canning bad Leen
in fault, and maintained that he had shown the greatest
possible judgment and vigour, and the greatest personal
courage that could be expected from a man in his position
No one expected that such an outbreak would tak e
place, and any person who bad ventured upon such a
prediction would have been regarded almost as a madman
in India. He did not expect to be called upon to answer
the observations which the hon. gentleman had trade
to-night ; but he thought he had answered most of
his points. But they had had this debate before them,
and the hon. and learned gentleman had not on this oc-
casion introduced any new subjects fir argument. One
word on the speech of the hon. and gallant general the
member for Westminster. He only wished that he had

not to Lring on a crisis ; for t'ley said, " Whatever a e
do, we shell be I,oked on as criminal by our ce-religion-
i,t-e" The commanding officer, in the first instance,
assented to their request ; but unhappily his better feel-
ings were overruled by another officer of the regiment,
who toll him that the men would say be was afraid of
them. The parade was, therefore, ordered ; and the
men, with the exception of five, refuses to use the car-
trifges. What was the result ? Of course their dis-
obouience was mutiny. They were sent to their lines,
aul there they remained for three weeks, till an order
came down from Simla from General Anson, to try them
by a court-martial. The eighty-five men were accord-
ingly tried, and they were sentenced to ten years' impri-
sonment to hard labour. They were sent to the common
gaol ; tut they were afterwards brought out upon the
parade with irons upon their lege'they and then were
sent back to prison. The native troops thought that this
vvoull be their own fate, because they knew that they
likewise must necessarily refuse to use the obnoxious
cartridges. This was on Saturday, On the next day a
disturbance took place. The men turned out in the first
instance with sticks : they broke into the gaol, and
they rel.med not only 85 comrades, but 1,400 felons,
who, he believed, had committed most of the atrocities
which had taken place ; and he said this after hav-
ing commanded native regiments nreier very try-
ing circumstances. (Hear, hear.) At Adahabad 3,000
of these gaol birds were released ; and he firmly be-
lieved that it was by tlagm that the horrors had been
perpetrated which had filled this country with so much
indignation and disgust. (Cheers ) Under all the cir-
cumstances of tbo case, he (Colcnel Sykes) did not fear
for the result. The rebellion had arisen from one of
those frantic delusions which might at any time have
occurred. It was like one of those tropical storms
which burst upon then so suddenly, and which were so
disastrous in their effects ; but which so soon spent
their fury, and left the sky calmer than before. He
trusted that when this mutiny bad been trampled out
(and he believed the European forces which were being
sent would be ample fur the purpose), they would have
once more a clear horizon and hope for the liters.
(Hear, hear.) lie tru.ited, however, that there was no
onein the house or in the country who supposed that
we could rule India by European forces alone. (Hear,
hear ) To suppose-that these little islands, with their
population of 28,000,000 could permanently reduce
181,000,000 persons to subjection was an utter absur-
dity ; and to attempt to put it in practice would ruin
India, and prove permanently disastrous to England.
(Ch eers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—I rise merely for the purpose
of noticing some of the arguments which have been
used, and some of the assertions which have been made
by the right hoc. gentleman the member for Bucks.
I regretted the able speech which that right hon, gen-
tleman made on a former night, and I certainly regret
some of the observations which he has now offered.
The right hon. gentleman says that a resolution of this
house to support the Crown in the efforts it may
be making and the measures it may afterwards
take for the pacification of India will have no
moral force. My opinion is entirely different. (Hear,
bear.) I agree with the sentiment lately announced
by an honourable gentleman who is no lover
of war, and who, I am happy to say, is again a mem•
her of this house—(hear)—l mean the hon. member
for Birmingham, when he said that the first thing to be
done at the present time was to prevent anarchy and
to suppress revolt ; and that then, having done so, we
ought to turn our whole attention to remedying any
grievances or any evils which might exist in India.
(Hear.) That stems to me the right course to pur
sue. It may be, as the • hon. and galant gentleman
who lias just sat down says, that there has been a
sudden impression amongst the troops of high caste
that there was to be an attempt to induce them to do
that which was contrary to their religion ; but I do not
think that that alone was the cause of the revolt. I
think it will be found that the movement was not so
sudden. I should rather conclude from the steps which
Lord Canning has taken in arresting one of the native
prig-x.B that his opinion was somewhat different. I
should rather think that there has been a general con-
spiracy to overturn the British in India and that as
one of the means of effecting that object, the conspirators
endeavoured to inspire a belief amongst our troops that
their religion was to be insulted, aid that they them-
selves were to be defiled by the cartridges they would
be,required to use. (Rear, hear.) The right hen. gen-

General Sir DE L. EVANS observed that he did not
express any confidence in Delhi being taken.
Mr. DISRA.ELI thought it much better they should
have an impression that Delhi should not fall easily.
It was prudent to believe that in the present campaign
they should do nothing, and in effect Nov. would be the
commencement of the second campaign. Now, what he
wished to impress on the house was that everthing de-
pended on that second campaign. All Europe, all Asia,
would be watching their Efforts. If their efforts were
adequate at the commencement of Nov. the opportunity
would be at their command. If their efforts were ade-
quate they might save their empire, and establish it with
renewed force and vigour. But if they got into a third
campaign, if they did nothing decisive and definite be-
fore then, they would find other characters on the stage
with whom they would have to deal. The noble lord
said the business of a minister was not to under-
rate danger, but at the eamo time not to take an ex-
aggerated view of thing.. That was one of those
platitudes that could not be contradicted. He
(Nlr. Disraeli) maintained It was the duty of
the Minister to make himself thoroughly master of the
subject with which he had to deal, and to form a sound
opinion on what he beard. This country had once be-
fore been despoiled of a rich inheritance, our eropiro had
been shaken, and surely in the past they might see some
vision of the future if they were to be governed by a
Minister who underrated danger. The other night they
passed a resolution that they would rally round the
Crown on the present occasion. What good did a reso-
lution of that kind effect +I A resolution formed alter
due deliberation, founded on ample knowledge of the
subject, doubtless offered moral support to a Ministry
and strengthened the throne. But a resolution, the
creature •f perplexity and ignorance, did no good to a
Ministry, and added no stability to the throne. It did
harm, because it imposed on the country an idea that
the House of Commons was doing something, when, in
fact, it was doing nothing. At the commencement of
our American troubles there never was a disaster but
there was a member of Parliament to come forward with
a resolution to support the throne. A resolution of the
House of Commons, unlese it were the expression of au
assembly which thoroughly understood what it was
about, would only mislead the nation. That was the
position in which they were placed at the present moment.
There was not in that house or in the country generally
a due
sense of the gravity of the emergency. He heard
with great pleasure fro tt the right lion, gentleman just
fnroowm
thetha por,
talarge body of irregular troops would enter
he was jaub and assist us in our campaign. Wed,
disposed to be sanguine, and he had little
doubt that tinder the guidance of the energetic
who were at the head of our army
ianndlnadbial,e we bad reason to
theyexpect beneficial results
from that movement ; but if
the
eutdcoombine that
movement with an expedition upp
1 success would be sudden and complete. Andmightthe
'ihen
rely upon it that unless their operations in they
ions the next
campaign were on a great scale—unless they threw the
lions power of England on the whole ofthat great t) en -
sula, by advancing from Bengal on the one side, and
coming down the Indus on the other, it wail doubtful
whether they would succeed. He did not think that
their preparations
,were on that scale. The noble lord
said it was difficuL to enlit-t men, and that the principal

Motives were bounty and pension, but depend upon it tleinan compares the present case with that of the Mr. lIADFIELD said that he hoped the militia esti- '
the best way to induce men to enlist was to impress on American war, but I believe there is no similarity bc- mates would not be brought on at that late hour. l
them the fact that their country was in danger. Eat tween the two whatever. (Hear, hear.) In the Arne- SIR CHARLES NAPIER AND THE EAST INDIA
the people of this country did not understand the ewer- r:can war we had to deal with a people of British origin, , DIRECTORS.
platy ; the scene was remote, and they listened to , and we insisted upon a payment front them which they Mr. IT. A. BRUCE rose to call the attention of the
persons in high places, and inferred from their tone that conceived was incensisteet with their rights as colonists house to a statement contained in a return on tenures of
land in India made by the East Indian Directors on the
the countrwas not in danger. The president of the and with the charters which they hsld. We were per-
18th of Juno last. It; w0.n1,1 be recollected, he said, that
Board of Control said the Governor-General of India feetly wrong in tha,:. quarrel ; and tht se who supported
wrote in high Fpirits. He was not di-posed to speak ! the minister of that day, supported him in a cause which .
, oo
of cotton t recenttio n i ncl( ' ,c, -ds si iao
was
a rho . I
be r
oi motr tan t
before title. citl
co f the
with any severity of Lord Canning. Lord Canning bed was nejnst in itself, and which led to the lo.s of iin order to elucidate and illustrate-s it, the lanncse' memberanti
for
had very little experience in India, and was not respon- i America. (Hear, hear.) The right hen, gentleman Dumfries moved for a return on tenures of land in India.
Bible fur the present position of affairs in India ;he was considers the conduct of the Governor-Gen gal of Ind is i That return was prepared in the Eas'., India-howse, and
willing to believe that Lord Canning had disp'ayed some during the last ten years, and of those who counselled i contained much interesting information in a small space ;
energy in this state of affairs. It was some consolation Lord Dahousie, tehave been criminal ; bat I will not take I but, unfortunately, instead of being confined to tenures of
to them that some one had
displayed energy- Bat PO for granted any such assertion. I will not a,tempt to de- I
purpose apparently cf revising what he had hoped were land, it referred to a matter utterly i:relevant, far the
one could deny that the first movements of Lord Can- ny that the whole of our policy deserves the fullest and
ring showed irresolution ar.d vacillation. Lord most deliberate inquiry. It may bo that errors have been I forgotten calumnies against the late Sir Charles Napier.
1 The stetements of which he complained were to the effect
Choatrhles Napiear,
famine
while Gov.ernor of Seinen), soil Canning was surrounded by men who were the committed; but lam not inclined to believe that there
creators of this state of thin. whose whose pride and has been any intentional inhumanity to the people of India 1 that Sir
arrogance had been the cause of this state of affairs. on the part of our GovernmAst. I believe that our Govern- emoparekett,
ianmoinredeprrtiche.:si
haned by artificial
moat of India—whether by rho East India Company and 1
1 mtheeagnrsairnaisted
tehep l
They must not put confidence in Lard Canning whenhigh prices from the coinmissariat. The meaning tof those
its Directors, whether. by the. cabinet and the Board of 1
the Legislative Council of India were the prime statements was, that Sir Charles Napier, having conquered
criminals, and therefore, whenever they criticised his of Control—has been in its intentions as benevolent to- I
conduct, they were criticising the conduct of those men wards the people of the country as any Government that Sande, and being desirous to enhance the value of Lie
has ever existed. (Cheers.) It may be that the hon, conquest, forced the people and the commissariat to pay
whose policy had brought upon them such disastrous cis- and learned gentleman (Mr. Whiteside) is right as to par-
exorbitant prices for the grain which constituted the
cutiostences. Well, then, with these general views, he ticular laws—it may be that we may have to retrace our revenue of the country. The charge first appeared in the
was of opinion that the noble lord at the head of the Gc- steps with respect to those laws—but I own I cannot bring newspapers, but subsequently it was repeated in a more
regular form. Sir C. Napier said so long as the impute-
in had altogether underrated the state of affairs myself to take for granted that the Government of India
tion was confined to the newspapers ho could afford to
in India, and be could not agree with the noble lorn M has been au oppressive one, and I cannot agree to the case
his view of the disposition of the European powers. He which the right hon. getnhtteis rn (Mr. Disraeli) endeavours
sto,
whenitinwtoas
imtsacolleioiini otherand
gat
af just and ri.ghteous n
should have treated that subject abstractedly; ho should to
vmake
b. , t
:tine], through the mil:take of inquirea
clerk in Calcutta' sending
have have said that he could only suppose thatthe great powera rid
case
which
e oppressive 13 rbeeslstiovvee andsnit him a wrong letter, that a secret note, to be registered
ymithenaci.siTrehtaotais a
of Europe would at a in ,meat of danger to England pre- against him at Calcutta, had been sort from Bombay. Had
not be borne out on investigation by the facts. The first
bably behave as the great powers of Europe had behaved trvercanniccaTgovern
thing we have to consider is the manner in which this re- it not been for the clerk's mistake that secret charge would
before. What had happened within the:last few days— volt can bo suppressed. I believe with Mr. Blight that have been found in the archives of the India Government,
what had induced him to make the inquiry to-night as to anarchy will take place in India unless we are succesinul in and would have served as the basis of many bitter attacks
t
what had taken place at Constantinople ? If it had not that; and it is therefore the duty of this house fo consider upon him. Tha secret despatch made the same charge as
was now contained in the return before Parliament,
been for the extraordinary state of affairs in India, what what are the best means by which the revolt can b 3 sup-
and what are our prospects of success. I should when Sir C. Napier was dead and unable to defend
had taken place at Constantinople would have produced pressed.
He was say that the mutiny having been unforeseen, it was only himself. He (Hr. Bruce) had moved for a despatch
great agitation in that house and the country.
natural that the first success. should be with the mutineers.
told that these c'reurnstances would lead to no estrange-member for Guildford
I should m when a regiment of several hundred men has be was then told by the hon.
from Sir
.Charles Napier in reply to that charge, and
meat between England and France. But that was be-
cause the noble lord had renounced the whole of his po- andwhen there are in it l(
mutinied,o eanofi
ears
the murder of those o oze
officers
threewoidodr
ifeo uarmE,ut -_
bay return. That had been answered by Sir Charles
Mr. Mangles) that the charge was copied from a Bom-
licy for which he had been agitating that part of the world rterPof very little difficulty; and when there are perhaps Napier, but now that reply could not be found. He
for a considerable period. And yet the noble lord said only 200 or 309 European soldiers to confront some thou- did not doubt the good faith of the India Board, but cer-
there was nothing in the disposition of the European sand mutineers, it is only natural that the latter should be tainly there must be something wrong elsewhere —in Bom-
bay if the answer was not forwarded to this country, or
powers to give us the least annoyance. He would not able to march away and make use of those very greased car bay
if, being received, it had been thrown aside and lost,
trust the European powers more than he would trust in- triclges which it is said they have had no scruples in using.
divi luals. When men were in prosperity they had a great But when that first success has been obtained—when theen while every charge against Sir C. Naer was carefully
horrible scenes have taken place of which we have read p.roens reserved di
nao.nie
eduly to kb e teodn.e Hear.( ) Thei\3,C hi
earTse
bhittqeurcesst
many friends, who admired them and complimented them
on their resources and their powers, but when the hournit—wectsmoafy
sutheoeenss.fairly tl
Let enemies, p'erbhaps the hoyuse would permit hrina (Hr. Bruce)
thecon
s?deetraiwl details
what
with
their
rnfituer
tdhieer
of disaster came upon them those individuals would walk quote a high authority in justification of the gallant
on the ct Asir side of the way, and if they appealed to us recollect that we have onproosupr side an organised Ito
government, the representative of an ancient monanhy general's conduct while in Scinde. Mr. Pringle, a civilian,
teem for character and support, they would say either which has all the advantages to be derived from the action succeeded Sir C. Napier in the government of Scinde, and
st
that they did not know them, or what they did say would of a free people, and all the organisation of which the most in O obey, 1847, that gentleman reported to the Govern-
be to their disadvantage. He had more confidence in the civilised government cea boast. On the other hand, it is went of Bombay that—
"
support of the people of this country and its resources, if not probable that this puppet King at Delhi will be able to Moderation, simplicity, and equity have taken the
wisely administered, than he bad on any European alli- enforce order against his followers. The people must be place >fthreapacity,bcosnoplexity, and oppression; and al-
ance.ariscaprowgirtehss 1
disgusted by the plunder which will take place. Those thoughthinka e
thet much rooilriitbfoert improvement,me I
If they went into a third campaign, they would be am inelinejetom
very favourable comp
on the eve of great disasters for England. At present it tWhhact Are
ee
ernufeagoefdatrade and commerce at
oppressive Delhi will
ailtillfillwould
provincesb ar n
was his firm conviction, if they made up their minds licentiousinterests
a nada soldiery r? 1,2
omm e t
ansan d
HI in _ that oftcmo
which had been for the same time under our rule, and jurious to their
re-
thoroughly to comprehend the difficulty they had to en- does will hardly lone aer;ee • for the Ilindoos are afraid of fleets much credit on the officers to whom it is due."
counter, tuat they must bring an irrenstibla force into religious persecuti ne and they believe that the Mahoso- Mr. Pringle, in another part of the same report, said,—
India before eight months were passed, and accompany it metans will not long bo restrained from oppressing them. " I hope it will not be considered in excess of my pro-
with some announcement of policy on which the 150 We may therefore calculate upon dissentious among those vines if, in concluding this report on the civil administra-
millions of people in India might rely with confidence, who at first obtained a triumph. Troops will, moreover,
the sense with which my inquiries have impressed me of
tion as I have found it to exist, I take occasion to express
and it was his conviction that they might emerge from be weekly arriving in India; and we may trust that that
this struggle not only with undiminished lustre, the wisdom, energy, and ability with which it has been
but with gallant General Sir Colin Campbell, who so well deserves
that accession of strength and character which was to be named among those who have been mentioned this organised anal directed by his Excellency the late Geyer-
always ascribed to those who showed they had confidence evening, will soon be able to collect a force sufficient to nor, Sir Charles Napier, under circumstances of consider-
in themselves, anti that they had energies which they suppress the revolt in whatever quarter it may appear. able novelty and difficulty."
Two years afterwards, when Sir C. Napier was appointed
knew how to exert with effect. And then, when theyto the command of the army of India, Mr. Pringle wrote
The subsequent step
they will need both time and wisdom s that will b 3 required must be dis-
had settled India, they would also have the advantage of cussed hereafter ;and
to him in May, 1849,
those amiable dispositions on the part of the European" On your fitness for the military command there is but
to decide upon them ; but I owndsthaalattatfit;eer hearingl. upon
highnotauthottityC
sTlgceanne:
oft inji.thEedrviebarellion of thepsceoppoye powers of which the noble lord had spoken to-night. ral doone opinion ; but I speak as one who has had more than
Colonel SYKES said the time would come when the not but thrnalre Itch:at eta
will soon be found to restore ordinary means of forming a judgment, when I say that
origin of the events that had taken place in India would tranquillity. If that be the case, it seems to me that our your aid will be found not loss valuable in the civil
time had not yet arrived. He read several extracts of a
go-
form a proper subject for inquiry in that house, but the prime duty during the short remainder of the session is to verntnent, if your colleagues be wise enough to`avail them-
selves of it ; and I can wish nothing better for the in-
dated Peshawur, June 1, to the effect that the mutiny assure the Government that no efforts on our part will be
letter which he had received from Colonel Edwardes, wanting. I cannot believe that this is a matter of imliffer- terests of our newly acquired provinces in the Punjab than
that they may have the benefit of the same strong and just
hat met with but little sympathy on the part of the moral support. Oa the contrary, I believe that both in
enca, or that a resolution to that effect will be wanting in
vcaeunsoedmmeaeossomot? etas star- groovdeurnertnennt
of order
d whasrel? successfully applied to the in-
It.he charge which hade .be n made was one that ffect-
people, who stood al mf. He had also another letter from
e i ng wouldout
Europe and in India such a declaration will have a great
Peshawur, dated June 13, stating that the princes inSir C. Napier's character in the highest deer affected
I -idt,
effect. It has, I must confess,ha
India were placing themselves at the disposal of the went t o
reinforcementsfind
differentto from those whichsc was not possible that Mr. Pringle, after two years' nexpe-
commanders of our forces. He (the gallant colonel) had have been a lopted a great many years ago. We all know rience in Scinde, would have written in such terms had
received the other day another letter from one of the that of late years noechaoieal improvements have been in- there been any foundation for it. Mr. Pringle was suc-
ceeded by Mr. Ivey, who stated that, high as he estimated
highest and most experienced officers in India, in which trodnced of whichever ancestors weroentirely ignorant. We
Sir C. Napier's military qualities, he ranked his abilities
the writer made the following remark ;ea', The people cf know that there are in Egypt the means of conveying troops
somine leas tint() than for civil government still higher. The same gentleman
England will say ova ought to have been prepared forth's by railway ; that largo steam men of war have been em-
nalese spaonleie isnentsheeohfig.hestt. termhs.oolfi
distinguished
.human tender-
outbreak. (Hear, hear.) Our reply to the people of Eeg- pheyed as troop ships, and that
probably
can carry soldiers
ussomiceewwhati
rude
atnintgiiirirsihteadblea. nature
land is, you might just as well have expected us to be pre- sailing
greater certainty andel
whsisc'h all knew to bej
pared for an outbreak of cholera or for an earthquake."disappointment
of
reach- he (Hr. Bruce) was justified in adopting the present course
(On, oh.) In that opinion he (Col. Sykes) perfectly con- i g. soonerni the scene of the revolt. (Cheers.) My noble was proved by the fact that in a pamphlet recently pub-
tratmg ships.
of cannot
areh tPofaededin"to our m
curred. For the last hundred years the same thing might frienda (Lord Palmerston) says that it would be necessary lished by Dr. Buist that gentleman referred to the Par-
have happened at any moment in an army of Brahmins that preparations should be male in India, and that ships liamentary return, tint added :
and Rajpeots; but had it ever done so? (Hear.) The only would have to be sent from that country to Suez. But 1 'lt shows that not only may we have war and conquest
mutinies that had taken place had reference to questions should have thought—ignorantly perhaps —that when the in India prosecuted against all authority; but we may have
transit duties under the most obnoxious form of
of pay, of going on foreign service, and such things as Government first heard of this mutiny they would have cooked accounts, grain raised by monopoly to famine
those. These men had fought for us a hundred battles, instanny given directions for those arrangements to be Peices,
and had won for us a hundred victories. They had reduced made,malta anit for troo.pose.etdo
tbhea,seinft rwforomeGin hbraltar and taxvateinotnit without any one having the power to punish or
ivthede re
Fortunatelythere h
under our sway a great portion of our Indian empire ; sad lent inainn In-lit, had arrived quicklym theraedafatreirartpbensoid to 133 in this country a gen-
but if there had ever happened to break out amongst revolt hadY becOme, known, it wouldhaveproduced a very tie:lianl served im a d
er
theC. following Napier, a s collector—Col.
statementlec to:
_C o 1 .
them a frantic religious delusion like this, which had great result. (Hear,) Still,- I have no doubt that the Rattibone—who ha 7
Under the rule .of Sii C. Napier the Government share
seemed to run over the country like wildfire, exactly the government are taking those steps which they think ado- n
of the produce was takenas
had bean
tahned wag stored in th.e
same sort of disaster would have taken place. The gusto to the occasion ; end that in sending out the 30,00)
proof that there had been no concerted plot against the men of which tiny have spoken they will adopt measures
in Scinde, and as had been the casec
GeYernment granaries, sass l
comparatively rageseevi -
British government was the simple fact that it had which will provide sufficient force in India for the coming ously
latelymwaosd enooi
fat r
es ao lf,iis someiantg ofat
artificially
fiep
cripiaerieui
yvwi
high
sicgebhsy
crept from station to station, commencing with the first campaign. I entirely agree with the right. hon. gentlemanor
rf publicfßao,
nmis
nabelaey,p
butriiteseestl
prices,
. ea
grain
rThetahi
ne
(Mr. Disraeli) that this country, too little forbearing, per-
delivery of these unhappy greased cartridges at the depot
haps, in time of peace, always shows itself to advantage in
of instruction so long ago as May last. And what did
the men say in the first instance 1 They said, "you_. more ad., .
aiversity. Wh -tr any effort is to be made nothing can be
the market interfered with by the grain being drawn
return made by the India-house untruly avers, nor was
may take us to any par tof the world you lease—y admirable than the spirit and courage which it dis-
- from the stores by the Commissariat at v. nominal price.
1.4..118,. and thecontempt which it shows for every con:

aidere.tion but that of eft,cting the end in. view. (Iresr.) I

When grain was dr-awn by the Commissariat from Govern

agree with the right hon. g,n+:l"ernan, that while the govern-
ment showed too great a dispos:tion with regard to China
to magnify every in mit, with regard to India it shows too
great a disposition to underrate the danger. I think that
if that pruceeds from a p,licy, the policy is a mistaken one;
because the more the people of this coun.ry are convinced of
the reality of the danger the more ready will they be to
make those sacrifices they may be called upon to make.
There is ono point which has been mentioned this evening
with regard to whieh we have had no explanation----it is
with respect to the financial efforts that will be necessary.
It is obvious, from all the accounts which have lotion re-
ceived from India, that, except at Calcutta, wherever there
has been any treasure collected it has been &Azad. It is
obvious, also, that, with respect to the taxes, there will be
the greatest irregularities, and in many cases there will be
a total suspension of their payment. We are in the habit,
when troops are sent out, of saying, as a sort of consola-
tion, Oh, the troops are going to India; they will be
charged to the East India Company, and the Consolidated
Fund will bo relieved of the burden of maintaining them."
(Hear.) In ordinary times that might be a consideration,
but at the present moment I think it would be more pa-
triotic to look at the subject as pertaining to the empire,
to view it as a whole; and for the Government to profess
their readiness— perhaps they have already done so--to
come to the aid of the East India Company in any effort
v determine on mak'--

ment stores it was charged for, not at nominal rates, but
at the rates of the day as indicated by the price current
of the place where it was drawn. The Government
was debited in the military department and credited
in the revenue department, as happens daily in Eng-
land and in every other well-regulated State where trans-
fers of the kind take place between different depart-
ments under the Crown. The Commissariat accounts
of the period must be in existence, as must else the price
currents of the several military stations at Scinde at which
such transfers took place. A reference to these will show
that the imputation contained in the return on the go-
vernment of the late Sir C. Napier in Scinde as to this
point has no foundation whatever."
Nothing could be more explicit than that statement, and
yet he had been told by the hon. member for Guildford
that it was upon Colonel Rathbone's evidence he relied to
support the charge against Sir C. Napier. The statement
of Colonel EMl:bone which was referred to stated that
" the collector was in the position of a wholesale corn mer-
chant, and acted precisely as one in the trade would do."
That was quite tree, but the revenue was raised by Sir C.
Napier only in the same manner in which it had been pre-
viously levied. He introduced great improvements, but
it was his duty, corn being the revenue of the country, to
sell it at the highest price that could be obtained for it. In
that particular year, however, there was from several

may

(Elear, hear.)

not
rht
eisnveeeenr
yhi
noofwt
ah tigl3loecvoeourinne Imtirnyea.n. rty paymentsslhtuius
ldm noosti
bliawecarel:e3Pii ut:oll'tr'et''g;Yi)hrpUt!:°n)tthesia:lll t''''bltlyandettilhamo: troops or the civil servants remain-
ing unpaid, stores running short, or any of those great
operations which are necessary to carry on operations fail-
ing in any respect. (Hear.) The East India directors are
of course fully aware of their own situation ; it is for them
to say what Cheer probable wants will be ; but I trust that
if they do make any representation to the Government,
and if it is necessary to bring any bill into Parliament be-
fore the session is over, that the Government will not re-
fuse their assistance. (Hear, hear ) It would be a ques-
tion for Parliament to determine hereafter what part of
the expense should be borne by the country and what part
by the East India Company. But at present there aro seri-
ous dangers which we ought to meet with the means that
aro necessary, whether it bo by ships, by troops, or by
money, No part of this danger ought to be overlooked ;
no means oughte do tnoobtetnheignlkecttheadt wuhri.chrlai
Disraeli
li necessaryverycorrectly to meet
that danger. (Hoar, hear.) With respect to our situation
iunndEeurrsoptooCi the answer made by Lord Palmerston. I did
not understand the noble lord to say that ha entirely
relied on the present tranquillity of Europe, and the ami-
cable dispositions of all the powers towards us, but that
even if any power in Europe was hostilely disposed towards
us (and I thought it a very just obearvation) they would
probably reflect, that if they offended us, though the retort
might not be immediate, this country had the strength to
punish any insult that, might be offered to it, and that they
would probably find themselves the sufferers if they pur-
sued such a course. (Cheers ) But Ido hope that in the
midst of all these great affairs the Government will not
again allow diplomatic squabbles to interfere with the
great interests of the empire. It was agreed at Paris last
yoar—whether it was a wise proposition or not I will not
now inquire—that a divan should be assembled in Mol-
davia to represent, the wishes of the Principalities as to
their form of government. Well, our only object was this:
I would eay, lot those wishes be fairly asceitained. If there
is any doubt about the irregularity of the notice, let us not
put ourselves forward to countenance or cover fraudulent
elections • let us agree with the other powers of Europa in
wishing ehose elections to bo as free and as fairly carried
out as possible. (Hear.) , lam afraid that the embassies
at Constantinople have been the source of a good deal of
mischief. lam glad that the Emperor of France, who,
on this as on many other occasiobs, has sheen both his
fidelity to this country an I his readiness at meeting emer-
gencies, has surrender ed the point in dispute to us, and I
trust that we shall hear no more of this disagreement.
(Hear, hear.) Provided we do not unnecessarily—not for
any interest of this country, but merely to satisfy the pride
or vanity of some of our agents abroad—(cheers)—under-
take and support a quarrel in which this country and the
government of this country has really nothing to do, and
is certainly uninterested in the result, I certainly am not
apprehensive, with the strength and the prestige of this
equally ready,
tw;
when
country, of any European quarrel arising out of this
matter. (Hear, hear.) lam sure this question of India
is one of sufficient magnitude to occupy the whole of the
attention of the Government. The House of Commons
has shown that it, is ready t
I believe that the house
the proper time comes, to investigate any grievances or
evils of which the people cf India may have reason oohm-
wo siiiiippbeertetqhue
plain. These 180 millions of people have called up us
for the utmost of good government and justice. (Hear.)
We have no right to attempt to govern them, unless we
govern them with justice and for their benefit. (Hear.)
I believe that such is the disposition of this house. I
believe that this unhappy revolt will producs no indisposi-
tion to investigate grievances ; and I trust that if any
well founded grievance is proved to exist, the house will
be unanimous in seeking to apply a remedy. (Cheers.)
Mr. DISRAELI—The noble lord has attrfbuted to me
some words which I never used. He says that I call d this
a just and a righteous revolt, and that I endeavoured to
impress upon the house that conviction . I never used
those words, and I never attempted to induce the house to
adopt that opinion. My opinion is that this i 3 a foul re
hellion—not a just revolt. (Hear, hear.) But Ido not
believe that foul rebellions occur without causes; and I
endeavoured to trace the causes which had lel to this
rebellion.
Lord J. RITS'SELL—I referred to the words which the
right hon. gentleman used about the criminal course par-
sued by the Government of India; but Jam glad to bare
brorgllt from him the admission that he does not consider
this a just and righteous revolt. (Hear, hear.)
from me on a former occasion somewhere about a month
Mr. DISRAELI—If the noble lord refers to what fell
ago, I certainly used the word crbninal in reference to
those counsels which had been attended with such dis-
is to be drawn from that expression that I considered the
estrous consequences; but Ido not see how the inference
revolt a just and righteous one.
The SPEAKER having risen to put the questioe that he
should leave the chair,

ulation of th

causes great pressure upon the pop _ et the province,
and Sir C. Napier of I all in his power to alleviate their
sufferings by sweeping away all monopoly and permitting
the introduction of corn at a nominal rate of duty. Sciudo
was the only province of India where no duty on salt was
imposed.
Mr. WILLOUGHBY was not prep-red to enter into
this subject, and regretted that the Chairman of the East
India Company was not in his place. The words of the
minute to which the hon. member referred wore taken ver-
batim from the annual report of the Bombay Government
in 1855. Sir C. Napier was not responsible for the system
which he found in force in connection with the revenue,
though he might be for the way in which the revenue was
afterwards realised. In connection with the subject he
would read an extract from the minute of Sir G. Clerk,
dated April 24, 1848, which appeared in a voluminous
blue-book on the affairs of Scinda, published in 1851, in
order to show the evils that existed :
" The Government share of grain having been realised
and stored, the collector brings forward or withholds por-
tions of the stock in hand, according to the temper of the
market, prospects of the season, &c. Should the number
of troops in the district render it probable that the demand
will be large, or should appearances tend to show that the
succeeding crop will be short, he withholds ; and when the
scarcity does come his grain is issued in quantities so small
as to prevent any fall from a glut in the market. If his
information leads him to suppose that the existing prices
will remain stationary or decrease ho sells."
Then came the words quoted by the hon. member, as used
by Captain Rathbone
" The collector is in the position of a wholesale corn-
merchant, and acts precisely as one of the trade would.'
The opposite statement shows the extent to which whole-
sale prices varied under this system, even in the same year
and in the same collectorate."
General CODRINGTON said the house had heard the
charges against Sir Charles Napier, and he would bo glad
to see the answer to them. (Hear, hear.) The hon. mem-
ber who had just spoken had repeated the charges ; and it
was but fair to the memory of Sir Charles Napier that his
answer should he produced. (Rear, hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK, in order that the house might know
the real value of the statement which ha 1 been read to it,
begged to read the following note which his hon. friend
the member for Merthyr Tydvill had received from Colonel
Rathbone
"My dear Mr. Bruce,--I have just received your note,
in which you inform me that Mr. Mangles intends to
justify the statement as to the sale of grain to the Commis-
sariat at fictitious prices, by the authority of Sir George
Clerk, who, he says, quotes me as his authority.
"In reply, I would merely observe that he no doubt has
the authority of Sir George Clerk for the statement, be-
cause it forms one of the charges ag .inst the Scinde Go-
vernment, contained in that tissue of falsehoods called Sir
George Clerk's Scinde Minute ; but which, in fact, was
drawn up for his signature by his then revenue secretary,
Mr. Goldsmidt.
" But, though Sir George has been thus unhappily made
to father official falsehoods, I am sure he is quite incapable
of giving birth to any, and therefore it is impossible that
he could have given me as his authority for so gross a mis-
statement."
(hear.) He agreed with what had fallen from the gallant
general. The memory of Sir C. Napier was a thing that
belonged to the British people, and they ought not to allow
his reputation to be frittered away by the base calumnies
of base people. (Hear.) There were always a cat of ver-
min ready to prey on the memories of great men. (Rear.)
If over there was a man who did groat service to his coun-
try and who exhibited a spirit of gentleness, and power,
and humanity, and wisdom, that went almost before his
time, that man was Sir C. Napier. (Hear.) He fought
the battles of England against greater odds than ever had
been found even in India, and by his masterly movements
and his great skill as a general he won for himself and for
us a renown till then unknowr. (Hear.) The country he
conquered he governed with the skill with which he had
gained it ; and when he left that country the people looked
on their conqueror as a friend, and attended him down the
river, paying him a homage which was due only to hisjus-
tice and humanity. (Bear.) Though they knew full well
he had, by his capacity and courage, wrung from them
their country and conferred it on England, yet, notwith-
standing what he had done, so thoroughly were they per-
suaded of his justice and humanity, that they attended
him down the river, and bade him a farewell such as men
only pay to their great benefactors, showing that Sir C.
Napier 's capacity as a ruler was as groat as he had shown
in the character of a soldier. (Rear.) We now know the
full value of Sir C. Napier. He asked any man to road
his life as drawn tey his brother, and, looking at what bad
just occurred, to say whether it did not almost seem as if
he possessed the gift of prophecy. (Rear.) Every word
he had told them with reference to India had been ful-
filled, and had his warnings been attended to it would not
have fallen to the lot of the Chairman of the East India
Company to say that what had happened had come like a

thunderbolt on the Government of India. (LTear.) If they

had taken the warnings of this wise and farbeeing man
they would have foreseen the mischief, and guarded against
it. (Haar.) But there was that in the minds of the home

Government—there was thAt in the minds of the Govern-

meet of India--that led theni to hate this great m.m.
(Hear) They hated him bees.un he was a great man—
(hear) —for he towered above them, and showed by the
comparison their inferiority to himself. (Hear.)
Mr. D. SEYMOUR' could say with certainty that Sir G.
Clerk never put his name to a document the truth of which
he did not believe an l into which he had not himself in-

mired. Sir G. Clerk fully inquired into this subject, and
it was a mistake to suppose that either he or the Bombay
Government wished to depreciate the merits of Sir Charles
Napier. He concurred in what the bon. and learned gen-
lemau had said as to the supereminent merits of Sir C.
Napier. The paragraph in the return to which objection
was taken had been alcidentally inserted there, and he
di i not believe it was done with any intention of disparag-

• -
,ng the character of_the eminent mar to whom it alluded.

'Mr. BUTT thought the house should give some expres-
sion of its opinion on the que Lion before them. A charge
had been made against Sir Charles Napier in a return
made to that house, and surely they were entitled to know
the reply made to it. Sir Charles Napier himself, on dis-
covering by accident the nature of the charge made against
him, replied to it in words that had been published, and
therefore) there exist. l a complete documentary answer
to the accusation. (Hear, hear.) It was said that this
answer was lost, but as the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr.
Willoughby) had reiterated the charge, some effort ought
to be made for the production of th answer to it. He
would suggest that the hop urable member for Merthyr
Tydvil (Mr. Bruce), who said that he had seen a copy of it,
should send that copy-to xhe President of the Board of
Control in a private letter, desiring him to ask the Court
of Directors whether it was a true copy, and that then
the whole correspondence should be laid on the table of
the house. (Hear, hear.) That would be an indirect
mode, certainly, of getting the document ; but the respect
due to the memory of so valuable a public servant as Sir
C. Napier, demanded that it should be produced even in
an indirect manner. (Hear, hear.)
The house then went into Committee of Supply on the
miscellaneous estimates.