The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-14 00:00:00

gamate the high courts, it was most desirable that the Go-
vernment should offer such facilities to the class of persons
we required as would induce them to go out to India.
➢Zr. V. SCULLY said that if they were to keep India in
their grasp, this was the time when they should hold the
reins in their own hands, having regard to the fact that they
were watched by the Emperor of the French, who was pre-
paring his advances and approaches to India.
Sir H. VERNEY regretted that, with regard to this and
the other India bills, there was not laid before the house the
opinions of the members of the council. It was most im-
portant that those opinions should be produced, and he trusted
the house would insist on their production.
Mr. DUNLOP, who spoke in a very low tone of voice,
said it was now essential to establish a tribunal for differ-
ences that might arise between the representatives of Go-
vernment and the possessors of native rights.
Colonel TORRENS considered it would be insulting to
India to appoint judges from barristers of only five years'
standing.

Colonel SYKES considered it would be unjust to place a
barrister of five years' standing, and possibly only thirty
years of age, over all officers of another class who had per-
haps held office for a quarter of a century. As far as the
natives of India were concerned they were much more likely
to be well instructed than barristers of five years' standing.
There were 150 millions of people in India who were under
the Mahommedan and Hindoo laws, and it was essential
that those who administered justice should be acquainted
with these codes, and also with the language of the natives.
In the native courts the decisions were such that there were
fewer appeals than from the European courts.
Sir C. WOOD repeated several of the explanations he
had given on the introdaction of the bill, and said the
courts in India would each make regulations for itself with
regard to those who should practice in them. The judges of
Madras had expressed an opinion in favour of amalgamation.
There was a large mass of evidence on the subject generally
of the bill in the report of the commissioners appointed in
1851. The whole bill had been considered by the members
of the council, whose suggestions were disposed of in the
usual way. As to the qualifications which had been ob •
jetted to, he had adopted those which at present existed
without alteration.

The bill was then read a second time.
EAST INDIA (CIVIL SERVICE) BILL.

On the motion that the bill be read a second time,

Mr. VANSITTART objected to the bill on the ground
that the legality of the appointments referred to in this bill
had been sufficiently established by previous Acts of Parlia-
ment. The civil service of India was now thrown widely
open to the public, and any person, provided he was of the
requisite age, might present himself at the India Office
and claim to be examined for a nomination to that service.
This was a state of things very different from that which
existed in the civil service at home, and which it was now
proposed to establish for India, and the result of which
would be to place the patronage of all the appointments in
the hands of the Government of the day. This bill, if
passed, would, he said, be as unpopular with the natives
as with the members of the civil service themselves, and al-
ready the natives complained very strongly that the per-
sons sent out to India differed very greatly in character and
morale from those which were sent out in former times. He
thought that the right hon, baronet had not dealt fairly
with that glorious civil service, by whose untiring energy
and cordial co-operation with our military forces that mag-
nificent empirehad been won and governed—a service which
has existed since 1765—which has been exalted by its de-
voted chief, Lord Clive, which has received the thanks of
the Sovereign, and of both houses of Parliament, and which
has received the approval of every viceroy from Lord 'Wel.
lesley to the present governor Lord Canning. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LIDDELL contended that every hon. gentleman
who attended in the house that night was animated by a
sincere desire to promote the interests of India, and that it
was unfair and unjust to insinuate the contrary. When the
affairs of India had been apparently reduced to a state of
hopeless embarrassment, Mr. Wilson went out to assist with
his experience, and the result of that appointment had been
eminently successful. If, then, there was no reason to re-
gret the infusion of fresh blood in Indian affairs hitherto,
there was every reason to hope that the occasional introduc-
tion of new minds into the civil service would benefit it.
That service should be recruited both from natives and
Europeans—and this opening up of posts of honour and
emolument would produce a most invaluable effect upon
native exertion, and would do more to establish for Eng-
land a secure footing in India than any other measure
which could be adopted. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LAYARD thought his hon. friend the member for
Windsor (Mr. Vansittart) had showed unnecessary alarm
when he talked of this bill sapping and destroying the civil
service. If there were any danger of that being the case, he
should be the very last person to support the bill. The civil
service of India had produced some of the highest names
in the history of the country, and natives never had better
friends than they had found in the civil service of India.
But that service was altogether in a different position from
what it was sone time ago. Then it was undoubtedly a
close service, but now the appointments were competitive,
and open to all the world. Such being the case, he thought
such an alteration as was proposed by the bill might with
advantage be made, but as it now stood he feared that it
would be a very dangerous measure. His confidence in the
Secretary of State did not go so far as that of the hon. gen-
tleman opposite; and if they were rightly informed, two of
the most important measures of the Secretary of State—the
imposition of the income tax and the amalgamation of the

armies—had been opposed almost unanimously in council.
The right hon. gentleman could dismiss his council if he
pleased, and he was not likely to be bound much by their
opinion. It was announced that all appointments, which
were formerly open exclusively to Europeans, were now
open to natives, and the medical service was especially
pointed out. But what was the fact? Hindoes, Parsees,
and others, hal come to this country, had educated them-
selves, and taken a high position in their studies for these
medical appointments, and now they were told that the
Secretary of state had changed his mind, and they must
fall back upon their own resources. (Hear, hear.) This
was another illustration of how much could be depended
upon promises, unless they had something definite in a
bill ; and, therefore, unless the conditions of residence for
seven years it India and a certain knowledge of the lan-
guage were provided for in the measure, he should be dis-
posed to oppose its progress. But he hoped that in this
respect the right hon. gentleman would give way to the
unanimous opinion of the house. With regard to British
settlers, ho would be glad to see men duly qualified holding
the positions in India to which they were entitled from
knowledge of the country and of its habits. Such appoint-
ments had been made, and the object of this bill was to
legalise them. As regarded this class of persons, he thought
it essential that they should have that knowledge of the
country which could only be acquired by long residence,
and he thought seven years was a very reasonable period to
require. As regarded the natives, the question was more
difficult. He thought they ought to open civil service ap-
pointments to natives the same as to Europeans, but there
was the difficulty of the expense of coming over to this coun-
try for the purpose of passing an examination. To remedy
this he should propose one of two things—either that the
Government should send young men over to the colleges
here, and pay their expenses to the time of examination, or
that there should be a board of examination in India, to
which young natives could apply who had prepared them-
selves to compete for civil service appointments. There was
at present scarcelir a position in India of which the pay was
above £BOO a yeas which could be obtained by natives, and
if natives receives the highest education it was absurd to
hold from them tl,e offices which their attainments qualified
them for. The B?shmins of India had risen to the highest
rank amongst their countrymen ; they had shown great in-
telligence and great learning ; and ho was happy to see that
by this bill an oplortunity would be given of entering the
civil service of the Government. But at the same time, un-
less such terms as he had mentioned were introduced, he
should be unwilling that the measure should pass, because
it would open a door that would interfere seriously with good
been
government
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ce.
(Hear, hear.)

Lord STANLEY said there were two points upon which
the house appeared to have come, not, indeed, to an unani-
mous, but still to a very general, conclusion. The general
feeling of the house appeared to be that the principle of
the bill was sound, but that the details would require con-
siderable attention. lie stated when the bill was brought
in that its principle he entirely approved, but the more he
had been enabled to consider the matter, and the more he
had been able to gather the opinion of those
interested in and informed upon Indian affairs, the more
was he persuaded that the two conditions alluded to ought
to be imposed, and not in the form of regulations, liable to
be altered from time to time, but by the bill itself. That
which was of the greatest importance was the limitation of
these admissions into the civil service to those who had re-
sided seven years in India, and to that he was inclined to
hope the right hon. gentleman would offer no objection.
But as to the other requirement, the test of knowledge of
the language, he could well understand the hesitation of the
right hon. gentleman, seeing that appointments might be
made to districts where no knowledge of the language was
required. But, if they were to take the choice of two
opinions, he thought the possibility of excluding men from
the service otherwise qualified would be a less evil than the
absence of any security in the bill. For the appointments in
reference to the collection of the revenue and other depart-
ments, he thought there should be a proviso to this effect,
"that the same test as to knowledge of languages should be
required from those who sought to be admitted to employ-
ment under the provisions of this act as was required from
candidates for other offices." If that were introduced he
could not see that any practical inconvenience would arise
to the service, and that would prevent any abuses taking
place in making appointments either by the Governor-Gene-
ral or Secretary of State. If that were agreed to the bill
would. provide four distinct checks against the improper
exercise of the patronage. ILI had doubts suggested whether
see w
the confirmation of the Secretary of State, which was one of
the checks to which he had alluded, would be anything
more than a form ; and he had also heard it said, "Would
any Secretary of State do more than what was determined
upon atpp
o Calcutta?"intnan which
euht
were
eor
e thatm a
made
ee wouldby tthe
e pointauth authorities
itesi
thatn
since his right hon. friend had been in office there were
two
India, but which his right hon. friend considered were im-
properly made, and had therefore been cancelled, (Hear.)