The Sun.
London, England, 1861-08-02 00:00:00

THOMAS CARTER.

In reply to General BUCKLEY,
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that he inquired at the War
Department relative to the Megwra, but there had been no
intelligence received in respect to that vessel. He availed
himself of that opportunity to make a statement in reference
to the man, Thomas Carter, who had been committed to
prison as a vagrant at Ryde, in the Isle of Wight. He
said on a former occasion that the committing magistrate
had informed him that a copy of the evidence against the
person had been forwarded to the Home-office, and it had
since been received. On reading it, he considered that the
imprisonment which Thomas Carter had already under-
gone was sufficient, and he had directed his release. (Hear,
hear.)

PAROCHIAL BURGH SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND)
(No. 2) BILL.
The Lords' amendments to this bill were considered and
agreed to.

OFFICERS OF RESERVE (ROYAL NAVY) BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of this bill,

Mr. LINDSAY said that he had received communica-
tions from France to the effect that the statement on the
part of her Majesty's Government relative to the
alleged increase of the navy in France was totally
unfounded, and that the Emperor of the French hdd ex-
pressed a strong desire that there should be an amicable
understanding in reference to this matter.
Mr. STANILAND appealed to the Government, before
the session closed, to inform the house and the country
whether there was the slightest chance of any such arrange-
ment being concluded between the two Governments as that
to which the hon. member for Sunderland had referred.
(Hear.) France and England seemed by a process of finan-
cial exhaustion to be trying to discover which could expend
most money in increasing its armaments. There was no-
tuing to justify the course which France was pursuing in
this respect. It was only due to the taxpayers of this coun-
try, who were ready to bear every needful burden for the
national defence, that they should learn from her Majesty's
Government whether anyattempt had already been or would
still be made with a view to bring about some limitation of
the ruinous rivalry now going on between the two countries.
Lord C. PAGET only wished to say, in answer to the
remarks of the hon. member for Sunderland as to the com-
parative armaments of France and England, that the sta.! e-
ments which his noble friend and he had made the other day
had reference to a totally different period from that to which
the hon. member had alluded when he gave the house the
information that he had obtained regarding the French
dockyards. The hon. member for Sunderland, as ho under-
stood him, had caused certain parties to go and inspect the
French dockyards. Now, the Government were perfectly
aware that early during the present year there was no con-
siderable progress making in those 10 additional iron -cased
ships. But since that date an order had been given to all
the French dockyards to proceed with those ships; and the
statement made by his noble friend had reference to that
circumstance. In regard to the matter really before the
house—viz., the third reading of the Officers of the Naval
Reserve Bill, he must say he did not think his hon. friend
had done justice to his remarks concerning those officers
the other evening. He had distinctly stated that he was
quite sure the Admiralty would consult the feelings of the
senior officers and old captains of the merchant service who
entered the naval reserve, and that if they should be called
upon in time of war it would be the duty of the Admiralty,
as far as possible, to avoid putting them in a situation that
would be derogatory to their professional standing or
character. (Hear, hear.) He was sure that no Board of
Admiralty would ever think of offering any affront to thosa
officers. On the contrary, the desire would be to be place
them in an honourable position if ever they should be
called upon for active service. It was impossible for him
now to make a prospective arrangement as to what should
take place in the unfortunate event of war. (Hear, hear.)
Ile could only say that the Admiralty accepted the services
of these gentlemen with the highest possible gratification.
He hoped and believed that they would come forward in
great numbers to servo their country as the rest of their
countrymen had done, and he would earnestly beseech
them, as he would beseech his own brother officers, to cast
aside all the ancient antagonism and jealousy which had,
unhappily, prevailed. (Hear, hear.) He trusted that there
would be a general desire for mutual conciliation on the
part of the navy and the merchant service, and he was con•
fident that these officers of reserve would be cordially wel-
comed into the service.

Mr. WHITE wished to draw a moral from the remarks
of the noble lord the Secretary to the Admiralty. (A laugh.)
The noble lord said that when the hon. member for Sunder-
land sent a special agent to France to ascertain the amount
of naval preparations going on there, the progress then
described as being made in the French dockyards was
correct ; but that since then, or three months afterwards, a
vast augmentation in those preparations had taken place.
Would it not be reasonable to infer that the magnitude of our
preparations had provoked the increased activity of France ?
He would ask when was the rivalry to cease, and could not
some understanding be come to between the two countries to
put an end to a state of things which sooner or later must
lead to a collision ?
Lord PALMERSTON—My hon. friend has drawn a
conclusion which is not warranted by the facts nor by the
statement of my noble friend. He infers that because the
active execution of these new ships had not begun when the
inquiries of the hon. member for Sunderland were made,
therefore the subsequent commencement of these ships was
owing to our preparations. Now, in point of fact, we made
no preparations, because the orders which have been issued
for casing some wooden ships, and for commencing the con-
struction of some iron vessels, are very recent and subse-
quent to what the French Government has done, and are
founded up-on what that Government has done. (hear.)
the real history of the case is this, as I said the
other
took a even-
ingiut
:—ln December last the French Government
re-
solution to construct 10 iron ships in addition to the six
which were known to us before. They had oubts as to the
proper mode of construction, on,and those doubts were to be
solved by experiments which were to be made by the Gloire,
which was afloat. They remained from that time until May
in suspense, and it was not until May that, having settled
certain doubtful points .
w eh were not settled before, and
which were only decided by the cruise of the Gloire, orders
given actively to proceed with these 10 armed ships.
were The keelsve were then laid down, and proceedings com-
menced. And, therefore, as my noble friend said, the inves-
tigation made by the hon. member for Sunderland took
place at a time when the order had been determined upon,
but not actually given to the dockyards, and anybody going
toithe dockyards then would see nothing, because there was
nothing' to see. The statements made by my noble friend
and myself at a later period referred to the actual com-
mencement of these ships. Now, as to the other question
—one of great importance—whether the British Govern-
' MOM could not eater into corcuzunicatiou with any foreign

Government—for it must not be confined to France—_bu
with any foreign Government, with a view to impose a limit
upon the respective naval forcereof the two countries, that
is a more important question, of great difficulty, and open
to much criticism. (Hear.) I think that, although at the
first blush it appears to be a practicable thing—l think that
any British Government would long pause and hesitate
before it entered into any agreement with foreign countries
limiting the amount of force, naval or military, which this
country ought to maintain. (Hear, hear.) We should
judge of that amount according to the circumstances of the
moment. Any agreement must be with several foreign
Powers, because it is not France alone that is a naval Power.
There is Russia, the United States, Spain, which is grow-
ing in importance, and other states which have navies, and
therefore any limitation of our own force must be made'
with a view not only to the naval power of France, but to
any possible combination of other Powers. Such an ar-
rangement would, 1 think, lead to interminable doubts and
disputes. (Hear.) 'We must have officers watching them,
and they must have officers watching us; there would be
doubts and suspicions of bad faith, and, instead of laying
the foundations of peace, we should, I fear, be sowing the
seeds of future interminable dissensions. (Hear.)
The bill was then read a third time and passed.
The Probate and Letters of Administration Act (Ireland)
Amendment Bill was read a second time.
The Lords' amendments to the following bills were con-
sidered and agreed to :—Tramways (Ireland) Act Amend-
ment, Naval Medical Supplemental Fund Society, Salmon
Fisheries, and Dealers in Old Metals.
The order for the second reading of the Marriages (Ire-
land) Bill was discharged.
EDUCATIONAL GRANTS.
Lord PALMERSTON having moved that the house at
its rising do adjourn till 2 o'clock to-morrow (this day),
Mr. NEWDEGATE asked the Vice-President of the
Committee of Education for some information as to the
mode in which the grants were distributed to the British
and Foreign Schools.
Mr. LOWE said the questions referred to the manage-
ment of Dissenting schools, and were abstract questions, in-
tended to give rise to controversy. As the Education Com -
mittee had a great deal of business to attend to, which they
could hardly overtake, they declined to be drawn into an
abstract discussion by a member of one sect as to the !node
in which they dealt with another sect. If they did tins the
Privy Council Education Committee would be the battlefield.
of rival sects, and much ill-will would be stirred up.
After a few words from Mr. WHALLEY on the subject of
a notice of motion which he had given, but which the
SPEAKER ruled to be out of order on the present occasion,
The motion was agreed to, and
The house adjourned, at a quarter past C, until 2 o'clock
to-morrow (this day).