The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-26 00:00:00

IRE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 26, 1857

an army. And therefore my hon. friend the member for
Lambeth is entirely mistaken in depreciating the value
of that establishment at Aldershot-b. Whatever may have
been the cost, I say that the money has been economi-
cally laid out. (Hear.) It has been laid out with the
greatest advantage to the public, that I do trust that
nothing will ever pass in this house which will in•

terferewith the continued benefit that Alderehott will

afford to the public by being, as it is intended, the place
where, between the months of April and October, con-

siderable bodies of troops shall be collected to perform
those movements and evolutions which they would have
to perform if they were called upon for active service
either at home or abroad. (Hear, hear.) There were
other points in which our army was deficient, and those
deficiencies were greatly and severely felt at the outset
of the late war. And, by the by, I may say that even
the practice in the late war was not a practice particu-
larly calculated to instruct officers in great field move-
ments, because our army was stationary during the
greater part of the time. It was net like a war carried
on in the interior of a country with army movements
and marches over a great surface of ground. But, in the
first place, there was a great want of that which is es-
sential to the movements of an army—namely, a field
train, or what used to be called a waggon corps—men
trained to attend to the sick and to the different things
connected with the supplies of an army. There was
great want of a hospital staff, men practised in hospitals
and conversant with the methods of treating the
sick. These things have been remedied. By the pre-
sent estimates it will be seen that two new corps
have been formed—one a field train and the other a hos-
pital staff—composed of men trained to attend on the
sick in hospitals. The committee will see that with re-
gard to numbers there is an increase of about 6,000 over
the numbers of the year 1853-4. That increase arises
principally from the creation of these new corps, the
augmentation of the artillery, and the employment of
those supernumeraries who were appointed during the
late war, and who might have been reduced, but whom
the Governmentthought it would be hard to reduce. We
determined therefore to keep tbem on full pay. The
Commander-in-Chief willingly agreed to that arrange-
ment at a sacrifice of that patronage to which some
people think he attaches so much importance. We
thought it better to retaiu as supernumeraries a great
portion of the men who were about the establishment on
full pay than discharge them at once and have to replace
them afterwards by recruiting. The general wear and
tear of the army may bereckoned at about 12,000 men—
includingdischarges, deaths, and other causes of decrease
—and we thought it better to retain efficient men as
supernumeraries than discharge them, and then have
to go to the expense of raising other men. Then,
I think it will be seen that the increase of expense, so far
as the land force is concerned, arises from these super-
numeraries, officers and men, the augmentation of the
artillery, the field train, and also the hospital staff.
Now, considering how much modern war turns upon
artillery service, I think the house will be of opinion
that it was not bad economy or bad foresight on the
part of her Majesty's Government to augment to a cer-
tain extent the artillery force of our army. (Cheers.)
At the beginning of the last war we could not have put
into the field 50 pieces of-artillery, and to judge by com-
parison what that amount is it may be well said that
when the Russian army entered. Hungary to assist the
Austrians to put down the Hungarians they brought
into the field 660 pieces of field rrtillery. By the aug-
mentation of our artillery I think that we could put well
into the field, instead of 50 pieces, 140. I do not think that
the house will be of opinion that that is a greater amount
than is necessary. The total increase of charge upon
the land force in the pstitinatee, as compared with the
year 1853-4, the last year before the war, is 600,0005,
odd, a charge temporary in its nature, partly arising
from these supernumeraries, and partly but mainly from
those augmentations that I have mentioned. There is
no increase in the infantry of the line. There is, in
point of fact, a slight diminution of about 120 men.
There is a slight increase in the cavalry. There is an in- '
crease in the engineers, and also in the artillery. Now
I think that it is not very material, within certain limits,
what is the amount of you! infantry force. It should,
of course, always be sufficient for the service of the year.
An infantry man can be made (I trust that the military
officers in the house will excuse me if I appear to make
too light of the time necessary for the instruction of an
infantry man) in a few months, and by recent results I
should say even in a few weeks. At all events an in-
fantry may be rendered available for service in a very
short time. A cavalry man requires a longer training,
because not only have you to teach him what he him-
self has to do, but how a horse should be treated,
and what it has to do. A double instructinee is
thus necessary in the case of the cavalry man, and that,
therefore, is a reason why you should in time of peace
increase your cavalry force rather beyond what,-perhaps,
might otberwise be considered necessary. The increase
now proposed is entirely in dismounted men, and not in
the number of horses. These dismounted men, however,
will all be drilled to horse ecercise, so that if it were
necessary to render the regiment more efficient it would
be only requisite to buy an additional number of horses
and mount your men upon them. Then tae artillery is a
corps which requires great practice ani instruction. An
inexperienced artilleryman is of very little value, and un-
less you have a good corps of aetillery depend upon it
your army will he very ineffic:ient in the field. (Hear.)
Next come the Engineers, r-nd that of all corps is one
which requires most scientafic knowledge, longest train-
ing, and the greatest sm'..iunt ~f skill, exuerience, and in-
struction. The proposed increase of 1,100 men to the En-
gineers is, thereforet one well deserving the approbation
of the house. The total increase in respect to numbers is
6,917 ; the increase of charge is 636,000/., part of which
is temporary. These estimates, in fact, must be considered
as estimates of transition, for, as I shall have to state
very brieky (leaving the details to be treated by my hon.
friend), there is an increase in other items, which arises
out of contracts made during the war and not yet exe-
cuted, but which must be cornplsted and paid for, as well
as out of works, which will not, it is hoped, occur again to
the same extent in future years. Independently, how-
ever, of having a force sufficient for the defence of the
country, there is another consideration which has of late
years been much dwelt upon and much forced upon public
attention, but which for a considerable time did not suffi-
ciently attract the notice either of Government or of the
country—l mean the necessity of defensive works for the
protection of your dockyards and commercial ports, and
for the protection also of such points as Dover, which
may be said to be the key to the southern coast of Eng-
land. (Hear.) These works were for many years almost
entirely neglected. Of late years more attention has been
paid to them ; from time to time annual sums of money
have been voted for the completion of such works, and
thus the object in view has, to a certain extent, been ac-
complished. But Portsmouth and Plymouth may now be
said to be unassailable from the sea side, but they both
require additional fortification on the land side. Dover
is becoming a fortress of considerable strength. That
place is certainly of the utmost importance, because if
the enemy were to get possession of Dover, with its har-
bour and the facilities it would offer for their landing,
this would of course be a very inconvenient position for
them to occupy. (Laughter.) It is therefore obviously
of the greatest importance that Dover should be
placed in a situation which would enable it to defend
itself if attacked until assistance and support could
arrive. It is necessary also to impress upon the
house the high importance of protecting the dock-
yaris—our great arsenals at Portsmouth, Plymouth,
1 Sheerness, and Pembroke—against the attacks of a
small army landing in the neighbourhood and shel-
ling them on the land side, because if your naval
resources in these dockyards were destroyed there would
be at once an end to your naval superiority, and you
I would be left comparatively defenceless. These, sir, are
matters of the utmost importance, which for several
years past have seriously occupied the attention of her
Majesty's Government, and my right hon. friend Sir J.
Graham knows well (because he entered heartily and
constantly into these deliberations when he was a mem-
ber of the Government) the importance of this subject ;
he is aware that what has been done has not been use-
less, and that further application of the same means is
required to accomplish the object we have in view.
There is another item of expense which also belongs to
the improved notions of the present day—l mean that
connected with our barracks. In former times it was
too much the habit to consider the soldier as a mere
animal—(hear)—to carry a musket during peace and to
shoot and be shot at in time of war. (Hear, hear.) Too
little attention was paid to his moral and intellectual
wellbeing, or to his comforts as a man, whether single or
married. The attention of Government has been
properly and usefully called by Parliament of late years
to the necessity of better arrangements for trio decent
and comfortable habitation of soldiers in barracks at
home. Such arrangements, however, are attended with
considerable expense. When you have to provide for
married men separate from the rest of their comrades ;
when you have to build places for their recreation, read-
ing-rooms, and libraries, all these things require great
addition to what used to be considered a tolerable bar-
rack; and the construction of barracks upon new prin-
ciples, as well as the alteration of old ones in conformity
with those principles, necessarily increases the annual
charge under this head. It is a'so very desirable that
as far as possible the troops at home should be lodged in
barracks. (Hear.) It is better for them as soldiers ;
it eases the civil population from that which is felt as a
burden—(hear)—it contributes to the steadiness of the
men, to their moral habits, and is in all respects there-
fore a most desirable arrangement.. (Hear.) But then,
again, these arrangements cannot be effected without a
considerable expenditure, and if the house there-
fore sees an increase under the 'head of barracks," as
compared with the expenditure -of former years, I trust
it will feel that this is really a eaceifice necessary for the
accomplishment of objects which everybody admits to be
most desirable, and which it 'is the duty of Parliament,
there is in the military der
as far as it can, to carry it it o effect. (Hear.) Then
year. The whole of the n
which may be the subject
hon, brought
friend un under thesta t
ed, Secret
r of diminution in a future
artments a small increase,
silitary departments are now
tura ; and a great advar for War, who is, as my
ssi7onsible for all the expendi-
from the concentration o f
stew to the service has arisen
the Commissariat. In t'nf
Itinh-eanAlmeyti, the Ordnance, and
there will be found au ring establ'sh ents
icrea,e of 57,0001: es Cernnapared
jealousy vith which those who represent
a
'ea sera of
thaerm
with the expenditure of Dia N, • e
tahwearperiovfattehemah u
regard' the mcialt-
facturing establishmse of
Crown, But I
.cen
assure the hon.
geta -lemon the members for Warwick-
shire that the Govery ,nient never contemplated having
eetablishmenis of chi' kind sufficient in magnitude to dis
pense with the employment of the trade. Such athin
would be out of the question. There is a great advantageg
in the possession b y the Government of manufactiaties
carried on under th- .sir superintendence, where experiments
can be made, anal where standards can be used with
which to comps,rt the works of private traders ; but it
would be absued to suppose that any Government estab-
lishments coal be upon eucia a scale as to supply the en-
tire wants of f,41.a army with regard to muskas. We were

obliged when the war broke out to have recourse, not
only to our own trade, but to manufacturers of arms in

Belgium and America. Very objectionable in principle
this no doubt was, but at the same time necessity has no
law, and we had to choose between leaving the army
with their old Brown Bess, which everybody admitted to
be an inferior weapon, or to go abroad to procure pro-
per weapons for our troops. Even now, with all the
contracts which have been fulfilled, and those which
are in course of execution, we shall only be able to
furnish a few Enfield rifles to the troops of the line; there
will still be the militiamen to be armed with them; and I
apprehend this force ought to have as good a weapon as
the soldiers of the line. There ought also to be a certain
quantity of muskets in store to be ready for emergencies;
besides which there is an annual consumption which re-
quires to be supplied • and if we were ever called upon
to defend ourselves what would the people of this coun-
try say if, offering themselves in hundreds and thou-
sands as volunteers, we had nothing but broomsticks to
place in their hands. (Laughter.) We must, then, have
a certain store of small arms in hand, and that is the
object the Government has in view. Well, then, there
is the establishment at Wool-vial, which is really deserv-
ing of a visit from any gentleman who takes an interest
in these things. There is a perfection of machinery, a
perfection of ingenuity, a successful application of science
to practical purposes which must afford the greatest
pleasure to anybody who can understand these things
and take an interest in them ; and the advantage of
this establishment at Woolwich during the last war can
hardly be exaggerated. (Hear.) If we had not had
there men of great talent and machinery of great power
it would have been impossible to have furnished the
quantity of ammunition and projectiles which were neces-
sary to carry on the war in the Crimea. Among other
things, I may mention that Capt. Boxer, one of the dis•
tinguished officers in that establishment, invented a
method of exploding a shell by a well-regulated fuse,
which produced the greatest possible improvement in
that weapon of war. Whereas, before, shells used to
emplode ne man could tell when or where—sometimes on
issuing from the mortar, sometimes in mid-air, sometimes
not when they hit their object; by the fuse which Capt.
Boxer invented the utmost precision was attained as to the
explosion of the shell at the very point at which it was
desirable it should burst. There is also a manufactory
for iron and braes ordnance, which is scarcely of less
importance than the manufactory of small arms.
The amount taken this year is comparatively
small, but we have made this year as large a number
of iron guns as it will be possible to make carriages for.
The great improvement which has taken place in the
calibre of guns, both by sea and land, bas entirely put
out of the question the small pieces of ordnance which
were thought sufficient in former years to arm our yes.
eels and defend our forts. It is absolutely necessary that
both our floating batteries and batteries on shore should
be armed with guns equal to any which can be brought
against them. In the wages of artificers there is, of
course, a proportionate increase. With regard to the
clothing of the army, there is a small increase of 3,7831.
The hon. gentleman the member for Lambeth charac-
terised the change which had lately been made in regard
to the clothing of the army, but I think that change has
been productive of great benefit. Formerly a certain
sum—so much per man—was voted annually for
clothing the troops, which was handed to the colonel of
each regiment. He provided an army clothier to clothe
the men, and the surplus which remained after his
charges were paid was the profit of the colonel. Of course
it was the the interest of the clothier, and of the colonel
too, but I know that that was not an object which was
looked to—to make the clothing pass muster as nar-
rowly as possible. Now, an allowance is made to the
colonels, in addition to their pay, in lieu of their clothing
emoluments, and the clothing is provided by the
War Department. I am enabled to say that the clothing
now supplied is of imcomparably better material, while
the expense to the public is very much the same. In the
items of provisions, forage, and matters of that sort,
there is, of course, an increase, depending on the num-
ber of the troops and the price of provisions. With re-
gard to warlike stores there is a slight increase as com-
pared with the year 1852, owing to contracts made
during the war not yet fulfilled, which the Government
are compelled to pay ,or when the articles are delivered.
With regard to fortifications and barrack accommoda-
tion, there is an increase on the whole of 242,0001.
These charges arise out of the considerations which I
have mentioned as connected with the defence of the
country- They comprise oertain works at Portsmouth, in
tbe, Channel Islands, at Dover, and a certain sum is
taken for continuing works at some of the principal com-
mercial harbours in the country. There is another object
which has attracted, and most deservingly attracted, the
attention of the house,—l mean the provisien for the
education of the officers of the army. (Hear.) It is quite
obvious that, whatever may be the courage of your offi-
cers, and whatever the bravery of your men, unless there
be with your courage a mixture of a certain amount of
science and familiarity with the operations of war, if
there be not a mixture of cultivation of mind generally
as well as a cultivation of technical knowledge—you do
not get your full value out of your courage, and you
sacrifice lives which might be saved. Though the
dogged courage of the British officer and soldier may,
under any circumstances of disadvantage, carry out the
objects for which they strive, still it is the duty of the
country to give its military men that instruction which
will enable their courage to accomplish its objects with
the least sacrifice of life and with the least loss to the
army. Great improvements have been made in the
regimental schools, and, with regard to the officers, a
council has been appointed (of which the Commander-
in-Chief is the head), consisting of officers of great dis-
tinction, in communication, of course, with my hon.
friend the Secretary for War (though he is not actually a
member of the council), its object being to frame a system
of education for the officers which will be calculated to
secure to the army men skilled in the profession, and
whose minds, already generally cultivated, have been
improved by a course of particular study and training.
When that commission has reported its report will be
laid on the table, and I trust they will be successful in
framing a system of education calculated to accomplish
the objects I have mentioned. The total amount of the
cearee for the effective service of the army was in 1853.4,
7,403,2911, ; in this year it is 9,025,3601,, making an in-
crease of about 1,658,7871. This is diminished by a de-
crease in the charge for the yeomanry, which we do not
propose to call out this year, and there is a diminution
in the non-effective services of 9,5341., which leaves a
total increase of 1,611,5261. We are sensible that it is
the duty of the Government to endeavour to combine a
due regard for economy with that efficiency which I am
sure this house and the country will wish should belong
to the military service. We have made a reduction as
compared with the last year of the war, and we propose
these estimates for the present year after a careful con-
sideration of the various items of which each charge is
composed. I hope the house will vote for the present
year the number of men and the amount of charge which
we propose, and during the next year it will be our duty
to endeavour to see what items can be diminished.
Some portion will naturally cease by the operation of
causes which are now in action. I do not think that
the amount of force is greater than wilt be required
for the service of the country in time of peace, and
many of the other charges, the excess upon which com-
poses the greater portion of the aggregate excess beyond
the estimates of the year 1853.4, I am in hopes will
cease during the present year. My hon. friend the
Uunder-Secretary for War is ;quite ready to give the
committee every detailed information as we go step by
step through the votes, and I am quite sure he will do
it with that ability and clearness which have distin-
guished him on every occasion when he has presented
• himself to the house. (Hear, hear.) Though I have
thought it my duty to undertake to make this general
statement so the house, it was not from any doubt of
the perfect competency of my hon. friend. (Hear.) In
another year, when he has had an opportunity of making
himself better acquainted with the subject, he will per-
form that duty wnich I have thought it better to per-
form for him on the present occasion. The noble lord
concluded by placing in the bands of the chairman the
first vote :—" That a sum of 2,921,0171. be granted to
her Majesty, in addition to a sum of 1,467,0001. already
voted, for defraying the pay and allowance of her Ma-
jesty's land forces at home and abroad, exclusive of those
stationed in the East Indies."
Mr. STAFFORD, after some general remarks, called
attention to an omission in the noble lord's statement re-
lative to the Army Medical Department, and charged the
Government with a desire not to carry out the recommen-
dation of the committee on the subject. The resolution
of the committee had been carried by largo majorities ;
but nothing had been done by the Government but to
appoint a committee. No inclination had been sh9wn
on the part of the Government to ameliorate the
condition of the officers of that department. The
state of the army medical department was, as
far as regards the satisfaction and comfort
which those gentleman felt in performing their duty,
worse than it had been before any inquiry took place.
If the future condition of the department were settled,
the officers woul I know whether to relinquish their pro-
fession or whether to enter with spirit on the efficient
exercise of their duty. He trusted the experience we
had gained in the last war would not be thrown away.
It was a most noxious error to say that any dieastsrs
arose from the numerical weakness of our establish-
ments, or from the reluctance of the house to vote sup-
plies. We had to look rather to the re-allotment of our
establishments for efficiency, than to any great increase
in nnmbers. Row could they expect a department to
be efficient when they did not offer sufficient induce.
ments to officers to enter it ? He begged the Govern.
meat would not object to do something towards remedy-
ing the defects in the army medical department, a de-
partment connected with the health, the lives of soldiers,
mb yi
se offering
i n dt uo ctehme
them. That department was inferior at present to any
eonf fit cwehr si c
hmtohrees
these
nedsut
icale ma
teens t
hs e thanu
tt h
toe
other department in the army. Much required to be
done for the sanitary state of the army. Statistics
showed that the mortality of the troops was much
greater than among civilians. That arose from the ne-
glect of the army medical department. So long as they
countrydra w into
the
that department
ieetdto
dra,
thewso t talent
would of
befit
experience they ought from the lessons of the Crimea.
Mr. WATKINS congratulated the Government on
their determination to keep pace with improvements in
long theyfan to e
the mechanical world in relation to the manufacture of
arms. He should advise a system similar to that of the
United States iu reference to the manufacture of small
arms,

Mr. MAGUIRE condemned the present system of
conveying the wives and children of privates and non-
commissioned officers from place to place. It was most
expensive to the private soldfers, or the non-commissioned
officers. It was a matter of great consequence, and he
hopedhop, he should bave an assurance from the Govern-
ment that tho system would be altered.
Sir F. BA.EING having adverted to the enormous
expense of 4/dershott, said that if the estimates should

not be very materially reduced next year the house
would do well to refer them to a select committee.

Sir DE LACY EVANS was of opinion that it was
impossible to adopt the motion of the hon. member for

Lambeth ; but at the same time he was quite eonvinced
that such a course, provided it could be carried out with-

out interfering with the executive Government, would be
of very great advantage. Such a committee would col-
lect evidence which would be most valuable. He was

not at all convinced that they had not time to conduct
an inquiry into the expenditure, even during the present
session. They had still three months, and much might
be effected in that time. If the hon. gentleman the
member for. Lrinbeth should renew his motion and sug-
gest that they should be assembled to consider that im-
portant subject, he would certainly vote for such a
motion, though he could not have supported the motion
which the hon. gentleman had proposed that night.
He could not refrain from according his humble weed
of praise to the honourable member opposite (Nlr.
Stafford), for the benefit he had rendered to the army
medical department. That department was not in the
state tbat it ought to be for the advantage of the
army. He agreed as to the duty dev,dving on the G
vernment to see to the transport of the wives and chil-
dren of soldiers, without involving the privates and non-
commissioned officers in such heavy expense. The pre-
sent system required improvement. For the camps at
Aldershot and Shorncliffe they were indebt-41 t) the Lite

Lord Hardinge. He (Sir De Lacy Evans) bad been
gratified that the Government had adopted the sugges-
tion ; but he did not think that permanen, huts had
formed any part of the original plan. He quite con-
curred in the observations which the noble lord bad made
with reference to placing our maritime depots in an effi-
cient state of defence. No doubt the question of eco•
corny ought not to be lost sight of, but expenditure in
order to the maintenance of a due delmce was not an
extravagance. The number of troops in England was
certainly reduced to a quantity to which he would take
no objection ; whether the expenditure with regard to
those troops might not be reduced, be could not ,ay, but
he thought that some objection might be taken to the
number of general and staff officers. (Sear.)
Col. BOLDERO tlok occasion to complain of the de-
fenceless state of Wool wick, and pointed out the error
which was at the pres,,nt moment being committed by
the erection of storehouses near the river. Some years
ago land was bought at Weedon for the very purpose of
placing stores inland, but the prudent step then taken
was now being undone. Ho also wished to call the
attention of the committee to the system upon which
officers were paid, when compared with the outlay to
which those officers were necessarily subjected. He had
made a calculation, and he found that at the end of his
first year's service an ensign, suuposing him to spend
only such sums as were absolutely necessary, and to
waste not one penny either iu amusement or extrava-
gance, at the end of the first year would be out of pocket
101. 10s. 9d., and at the end of the second year 71. odd.
This state of things ought to be amended.
Capt. VIVIAN thought that the referring the army
estimates to a select committee would lead to no good re-
sult, beyond, perhaps, the obtaining of some small
amount of evidence. He was of opinion that the staff at
the present time was too large—(hear)—and that, in lieu
of reducing the rank and file, the amount of the staff
should be reduced. He also bore testimony to the useless
manner in which the land at Aldershott was being em-
ployed.
Gen. THOMPSON could give unqualified approba-
tion to the statement which had been made by the noble
lord. If he added anything to what bad been said on the
present occasion, it would be to impress on the commit-
tee that true economy consisted in having everything of
the best.
Major KNOX urged the claim which the Italian le-
gion which had been stationed at Malta had upon the
Government, and expressed a hope that the noble lord
at the bead of affairs would see justice done.
Col. HERBERT called attention to the fact that

Woolwich was our only depot for arms, although in case
of invasion it was one of the first places that would fall
into the hands of the enemy. He also complained of the
reduction of our regiments of Infantry and cavalry to the
old peace estanlishment. In his opinion regiments should
be kept up to their full strength, and if reduction were
necessary, that it should be of regiments, not of large
numbers of men from each regiment.
Col. SYKES was strongly in favour of referring the
votes annually to a committee.
Laird J. RUSSELL supported the proposition before
the committee, but he had beard with apprehens.on
several suggestions that had been made in the course
of the discussion. He feared that, unless considerable
reductions were made, it would be necessary next
year to propose new taxes to a considerable amount. His
right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer would
have enough this year for his estimates, but nex year there
would be a reduction offour and a half millions in the taxes,
andtherefore he i rusted that the absolute neeeseity of red no-
tion and retrenehment would be seen and provided for.
He hoped that if a select committee should be app iinted
next year, some attempt would be made to produce
reduced taxation. It was true that they had to be
prepared for a &eat military operation last year, but
they were not to have a siege of Sehastopol every
year ; and if it were proposed to be prepared for such
an operation every year, 200,000 men would be quite
little enough as an annual vote. (Rear. hear.) He
trusted that next year, when everything good was to be
done—(a laugh) —the state of the finances would attract
the serious attention of the government. (Hear.)
Sir J. RAAISDEN explained that with respect to the
barrack expenses in former times, 601. per man was con-
sidered a fair average ; whereas 1001. was rendered ne-
ceesary now in consequence of the many modern im-
provements in the accommodation for the men. With
respect to Alderahott it was not intended that the en-
campment there should be more than a summer encamp-
ment. He admitted, with the gallant officer opposite,
that Woolwich was in an unprotected state, but the mode
of defence, in case of threatened invasion, would be in
the mooring of blockehipe and gunboats in the river. In
answer to inquiries respecting the condition of Alder-
shott, he was happy to say that the average of -ickness
there was only three per cent., while at all other bar-
racks throughout the kingdom it was four per cent.
With reference to the medical department of the army,
the government had received the report of the commis-
sioners, to which they attached high value, and he
trusted that with the information furnished by that re-
port some satisfactory reform would be effected.
Mr. MACARTNEY thought this the proper oppor-
tunity of bringing for ward the case of thirty-six cavalry
officers who had been put on half pay last December,
after having been previously assured that the two troops
to which they were attached were to be a permanent au a
mentation to the army. Six had been since absorbed
by other corps, but thirty still remained on half pay.
After some further conversation,
Mr. MAGUIRE hoped that sergeants and privates
who were permitted to take their wives with them
would receive some allowance for their travelling ex-
penses.
Sir W. WILLIAMS hoped that next year the case of
the sergeants would be considered, and their pay in-
creased. At present their pay was quite inadequate to
their position.
Sir DE L. EVANS objected to the amount of the
votes for barracki. He congratulated thr Under Sec-
retary for War on the lucid manner in which he had
explained the estimates. (Hear, hear )
Sir J. RAMSDEN, in answer to the hon. member
for Dungarvon, said the soldiers' wives were formerly
permitted to travel in the waggons, but that since the
introduction of railways that accommedation had ceased.
The matter should be attended to. (Hear, hear.) The
suggestion of the hon. and gallant member for Caine
respecting the sergeants' pay should receive the most
serious attention.
The vote was then agreed to.
355.0551. miscellaneous charges for the land forces.
Sir J. TRELLWNEY complained of the charge of
.11,0001. in tieu of stock purse fund for recruiting and
hospital charges of the Guards, called attention to the
privileges enjoyed by officers of the Guards as compared
with those of the Line, and mentioned that through
the Crimean expedition instances had occurred of offi-
cers of the Guards being placed over other officers of
more experience and equal actual rank, but who did not
enjoy the nominal step above their rank which officers of
the Guards held. He believed too that in the appoint-
ments to commands in thearmyin the Crimea favouritiem
had been shown to the Guards on account of their
aristocratic connexion.
Mr. BYNG thought it unwise and unjust to endeavour
to draw a distinction between the Gnarls and the Line,
between whom it was meat desirous that the utmost
good feeling should exist.
Mr. STAFFORD suggested that it was inconvenient
to discuss the relative position of the Guards and the rest
of her Majesty's forces incidentally ; but having visited
the hospitals of the Guards, he wished to bear testimony
to their efficiency. They were perfect models of what
military hospitals should ne.
Mr. WILLIAMS complained of the higher rank and
higher pay the officers of the Guards enjoyed as com-
pared with the officers of other branches of the same ser-
vice. He saw a charge for 104 assistant-chaplains. He
was informed that the men in the dockyards and in
garrison formerly attended the churche, in the neigh-
bourhood, hut that now chaplains were appointed with
salaries of 2001. and 3001. each to perform divine service
in the garrisons or dockyards. This was a needless
increase of expense.
Lord LOVAINE reminded the house that the officers
of the Guards were deprived of their legitimate promo-
tion in consequence of the recommendation of the com-
mittee on army promotion.
Lord A. VANE TEMPEST denied that the Guards
enjoyed any privilege to which they were not entitled.
Mr. CONINGRANI wanted to know what necessity
there was for a general inspector of Foot Guards.
SirJ. RAMSDEN replied that the appointmea of the
officer in question was merely following out the system
that prevailed in other branches of the service ; the only
difference being that the number of men under the in
spection of the Inspector-General of the Guards was less
than that which each brigadier in the line had to inspect.
Mr. ADDERLEY referred to the expense of sending
the German Legion to the Cape of Good Hope, which he
said amounted to 1001. a man, whereas they might have
been disbanded at a cost of 201. a man. He had made this
etatenient before, but it had been disputed. Since then
he ILA gone into the calculation, and found, taking the
Blue-book as his guide, that he was pretty nearly cor-
rect. He took the three years' pay to which they were
entitled at 94,000/. ; buildings' allowance, 50,000/. ;
115,0001. for outfits ; conveyance at 121. a man, including
oefieere, 30,0001. ; conveyance of families, 10,0001.; one
'
year's rations, at 91. a man, 22,500 ; rations for families
7,500/. ; road making, bridges, and other works for
opening the country, together with churches and chap-
lains' salaries, 20,0001. ; full pay during the voyage,
7,500/. ; arms and camp equipage, 15,000/. ; and free
passage for supernumerary officers 1,0001. ; making to-
gether 268,500/. The grant of 40,000/, made by the Cep°
authorities was for the whole German Legion, but as not
more than one-third would go out, some 14,090/. must
be deducted from that, and added to the net cost to this