The Sun.
London, England, 1857-01-24 00:00:00

ill struck him that associations such as the one he was
eddres-ing arose out of the faulty institutions of the coun-
try. He said— We ought not to be meeting here, gentle-
pen. We have people whom we choose every seven years,
hose business it is to do the duties we are now doing. I
want to know what the Parliament in Westminster sits
for. (A. Voice—" That's the point.") Do they sit there
to look on while we work ? What is it we are doing now ?
We are going into the very discussion into which Parlia-
ment ought to go night after night. We have our power,
.oecaerse the mischief has risen to such a height that peo-
ple won't stand it any longer, and that they-take this
extraordinary mode of expressing their opinion. Now,
,what I wai ttodo is this,:—l want to get at some effect-
eive instrument to work out the purposes which we are
:endeavouring to do in this extraordinary and, if I may
:use the term, spasmodic effort. How is that to be done ?
:Why, sir, the House of Commons ought to be the watch-
dogs of the people. Now, what I want to do is to make
our House of Commons fit and willing to perform its
duty ; and therefore I say, sir, that you cannot expect
to have any real financial reform until you have had Par-
liamentary reform. I have persuaded the AdminisLrative
Reform Association of that fact, and the consequence is,
we have determined that all our organisation, spreading
over England as it does, all the various means we have
of influencing public opinion, are to be directed to that
end, as well as to the direct aim of the association.
And what we intend to do is thie—first of all, to
persuade tare people that the great mischief lies in
the present constitution of the House of Commons,
and to bring your minds round to demand a full
reform of that house. ,We intend —and here I am
making a bold declaration, and it may, Sir, probably
alarm you—we intend to do our utmost to affect the
coming elections of this country ; and from that we in-
tend to direct our efforts to the formation of a. real
party in the House of Commons, whose business and
aim it will be to act as one man, and make the Ministers
feel that we are reformers of financial reform—reformers
after the manner of the Finanolat iteform Association.
fie (Mr. Roebuck) hoped for their co-operation, and drew
a picture ci the construction of the " parties" in the
House of Commons, again pointing out the influences
which were used by the great parties in London to se•
cure the vote of Mr. A for Ministers. The great towns
of this country were given, a great number of them, the
power of returning members of Parliament by the Re
form Bill. They chose what they thought to be efficient
representatives. Those men, as soon as they got to
London and entered the House of Commons, found that
Rouse divided in a very curious manner. There was a
line ran down it from the very middle, from the
Speaker's chair ; and on the one side sat the Opposition,
and on the other side sat the Ministry ; and it was ex-
pected that every man who came into that house should
take the one side or the other. There (continued the
hon. gentleman) it is, indeed, a fact—there are a certain
wild, impracticable, wonderful set of men called inde-
pendent members. (Laughter.) They wander about in
space, like a planet that has no sun round which torevolve.
They go about they know not where, and they find them-
selves in strange places they know not how. (Laughter
and applause.) The Minister and his satellites—(a laugh)
make their situation a very uncomfortable situation.
Rejected from the Ministerial side, they go to the Oppo-
sition, and there they meet in the same way, with
" What do you belong to, and what do you mean ?" and
it you don't swear iu the words of one party or the other
you are, in the slang phrase, " nowhere." (Laughter
and applause.) The consequence of this is, that when
these very simple gentlemen come from the north
they find themselves as I say—nowhere. They do
not, know what to do; and Mr. A. brings up Mrs.
A., and Mr. A. is affected through the means so very
well known to be employed by the great parties in Lon-
don. Mr. Ais affected through Mrs. A. Oh 1 I have
seen it, and I have known it -so often—that Mrs. A
wanted to go to the Queen's ball. The way to get there
was to make Mr. A vote with the Minister ' • and when he
voted with the Minister she received her invitation
(" Hear, hear," laughter, and applause.) I am not speak-
ing, Sir, without my host upon this matter ; I know well
what I am saying ; and I have known instances of
cajolery of this kind, of mean appliances of this description
—of this sort of low and disgraceful means by which to
reach a man's head and his heart, quite as debasing ss the
one I have described. (Applause.) Well, then, had these
men found, when they came up untainted, untouched,
unknowing—had they found a party to which they could
ally themselves they would have gone there. (Hear, hear.)
But no, finding none such, they wandered to one side or
the other ; and let me tell you that, wandering to one side
or the other, they got into what I find has a wonderful
influence in the north as well as the south—namely, what
is called good society. (Laughter.) They found themselves
all at once shaking hands with noble lords and ladies ;
and it is wonderful, perfectly marvellous, to find, Sir, that
gentlemen whom I thought sturdy, well-to-do, well-going,
honest men, who have made their way in the world—to
find these people bowing down to the very ground, aye,
crawling upon their bellies—( oud laughter)—before
noble scions, or little petty crratures,who did not know,
hardly know, their right hand from their left; but because
they signed-their name without• their phriatiau name—
(laughter)—tbeee gentlemen were their; moat obedient,
humble servants. (Applause.) Now, Sir, Ido not
preclude 'from my reprehension this good town of
Liverpool. (Hear.) I find there is a wonderful desire in
the princely merchants of this princely town to be thought
fine gentlemen in the house. (Laughter.) If they could
only hear the sort of criticism and sarcasm that follows
their own individual debasement, I think they would be
prouder of their position as independent men than sub-
servient followers. Lady A says to Lord A, who is the
Minister (say A, B, C, or P), who is Minister of the
Crown, the Prime Minister—my Lady A seYes
" Who
is that vulgar fellow, A, that you have introduced to
me?" (Laughter.) He says, "My dear, now don't use
that language. I acknowledge that fellow to be a vul-
gar fellow ; I know it—know it as well as you ; bUt he
has a vote in Parliament ; now do be civil to him."
(Loud laughter.) And so she is civil to him, and the
poor man votes ever after as Lord A. bids him. And
these are your watchdogs. (Laughter and applause.)
He (Mr. Roebuck) wanted to point out through the Ad-
ministrative Reform Association every time in which a
man thus actually departed from his duty and betrayed I
his trust to the people, and he believed that they could
do that by means of that organisation. He believed
they would do much good by instructing the people.
Yet if they got to learn in that way tbe feelings of the
people upon their representatives they would do much 1
they might publish. It appeared to him that when they
more to carry financial reform than all the pamphlets
had got together even a very small body of men who
would say they would act as one males they would make
the Minister understand that they would set their fac,
against all the maladministration of which he was the
instrument. When they had done that, and if they had
only gathered together six men who would say so, before
next session came there would be added to their number
many a revolting independent gentleman. He hoped
tose
esee
everyt the
independentchairman joi n
constituencyth at pa
telling
party, and
their member he hoped to
that he must do so too—that he must not ally himself
with one aristocratic part or the other, but that he must
consider the people of England. (Applause.) He in-
stanced the cases where men of worth and ability had
been set aside for some empty jackanapes who had
just come from college or his mother's drawing.
room, ,and who, strutting up the house, was made
a great man at once. He denounced the way they
paid the army, and reiterated his former phrase,, that
it was "an army of lions led 011 by asses." He re-
ferred to the number of famous admirals England had
possessed, and who sprung from the people, and to the
scarcity of generals. The navy was not then an aristo-
cratic service ; the army always was. There was a fine
coat, there was Captain So-and-so ; and, as Sir Walter
Scott said," Women, like turtles, are taken by a piece
of red rag." The army was a sort of refuge for the dee-
titute aristocracy. The consequence of this was seen in
the Crimea—a standing ignominy to the 'people of Eng-
land, who bore such a thing; and not till they had seen
the fatal result, the fatal policy, read in such dreadful
characters on the plains of the Crimea, did they rise up
to ask for army reform. He said that army reform was
administrative reform. The consequence did not extend
only to that to which he had alluded, but he found,
though he was unable to prove it in the progress of the
investigation of the Sebastopol Committee, that every
step of the inquiry was marked by proofs of corruption,
lestpo okuet of, they
foul substances,
shonuled wanted
eanted
that corruption laid bare. He thought, with the party in
able
nhhdee knew to be a fact .would not
and that corruption went to high pltahceeys.
ttahonedp Houserhohe
theo p ofe hoped
that
Commons
mischief,w haat
long exist. In conclusion, he said—l know, Sir, that
real honest and distinguished mercantile houses refused
to have anything to do with Government contracts, be-
cause they, were obliged to preface their proceedings by
bribing the departments. I am not now speaking in a
whisper. What lam now saying I see the gentlemen
below will tell to the people of England. And lam as
sure of this as I am of my own existence—that from the
very top to the bottom of the standing departments, the
permanent departments, of this country, there is corrup-
tion to be found. I want this exposed. It can only be
done by a united effort on the part of the people of this
country, acting through the House of Commons, and
upon the House of Commons. This Reform Association
may work its heart out, but the people who profit
by theor n
Perpetrate will laugh it
t
its finger upon their gains, and they will feel
o acorn. iscßhu ietfs let
wt htihche they
of Commons once lay
that little finger a very heavy one. It is by their
means alone you can effect your purpose ; and I
would ask and entreat of you to bear this in mind, that
we are acting now, here in this hall, in what I wou!d
call in the cant phrase of the!day an abnormal condition.
It is not our proper business to undertake the business
of the House of Commons ; but we ought to have a
House of Commons which would supersede such meet-
ings as this. In order, then, that we may, by our united
efforts, contribute to this great end, I have accepted
the invitation to come here. I determined to say what
I would have said the moment I appeared before the
people of this great town, because I thought, by stating
it to an audience like the present, it would make its
way through all parts of the country—and I see it will
(looking at the reporters). I thought by so doing I
should conduce to the same end you have in view, the
same end I have in view, and I believe all right-minded
men have in view, and I am sure that every man who
wishes the prosperity of England Will have in view ; and,