The Sun.
London, England, 1857-08-12 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONCON, WEDNESDAY EVEI-ING AUG us r 12. 1857

► Porte, no doubt, by the eyes of its counsellors,
saw something quite different, and without under-
standing that what was desired was the means of
securing it an honourable retreat, hastened to al-
cept the proposition, but offered to carry it into
execution in a manner which, to make use of en
expression that•has been empleyed, we may call
'derisory'; in fact the compromise proposed by
the Porte consisted in the assembling the caima-
cans at Constantinople, and in calling on them to
declare if they had violated or not the prescrip-
tions of the firman, and if the elections were to be
declared null or maintained ! In ceder that this
proposition might have bad the appelrance of
being, if not serious, at least just, it would have
been necessary to have convoked all the elec-
tors and all the commissioners at .Cmstanti-
nople, in order to hear all par:ies ; for, to all
persons who know how things take place at Con-
stantinople, it is evident that the caitnacaes, if
they alone had been convoked, would have
found the means of justifying themselves. Such,
however, is the plan of concia.liation 'which the
journals of Vienna and those of London so bitterly
reproach M. de T'nouvenel and his collesgues with
having rejected. What qualification would not
these same journals have given to the plenipoten-
tiaries if they had fallen into this snare ? It evi-
dently results from these facts that the four
Ambassadors have carried the spirit of conciliation
to its farthest limit., and that their greatest
anxiety has been to preserve the dignity of the
Turkish government by causing its decisions, dis-
reglrded by its own subjects, to be respected. If
the proposition of verification had been accepted,
the affair would have been referred to the commis-
sion at Bucharest, andthe question would not have
assumed the proportions which Lord Bedcliffe,
Austria, and Turkey have so inconsiderately caused
it to take."

AMERICA.

(BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.)

The United States Mail steamship Atlantic has
arrived, with advices from New York to the Ist
inst.

She has brought $364,456 specie on freight.
Her advices have been anticipated by the Van-
derbilt. =
On the 3d instant the Atlantic passed the Royal
Mail steamer Persia in lat. 42, long. 63, hence ;
and on the same day, in lat. 42, long. 62, the
screw steamship New York, from Glasgow fur New
York.

Among the passengers by the Atlantic is the
agent of the Great Southern Convention, who visits
Europe for the purpose of establishing a line of
steam-ships from Norfolk, Virginia, to Havre, or
some port in England ; ex-Governor J. A. Wright,
United States' Minister to Berlin, accompanied by
Mr. S. Wright, Secretary of Legation ; and the
Hon. W. W. Boardman.

RUMOURED VISIT OF THE QUEEN TO

FRANCE.

It is said that the Prince Consort has accepted
the invitation of the Emperor of the French to be
present at the grand review which is to come off
at Chalons-sur-Marne in the approaching month of
September, when upwards of 50,000 men will be
assembled in the camp. And also that it is not
improbable that the Queen herself will take that
opportunity of paying a return visit to the Impe-
rial family, at the Empe7or's country residence at
Compiegne.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the wo3lsack
at 5 o'clock.
~.

THE NUMBER OF JUDGES.

Lord CAMPBELL said he wizhed to put a question to
the noble and learned lord on the woolsack, upon a sub-
ject of considerable interest, he meant the report of
the commission appointed to inquire into the number and
duties of the judges, and also to ascertain whether some
of them could not bo dispensed with. It was important
to remove an impression which existed abroad that there
was a greater number of judges than was required.
He was a member of the commission alluded to,
and they came to the unanimous opinion ,that
the number of judges could not be diminished
without serious injury to the public service. He should
therefore wish to know whether the noble and learned
lord bad received the report of the Commission, and if
so, when it would be made public.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he entirely con-
curred with the noble and learned lord that it was ex-
pedient that the report of the committee should be laid
on the table of the house with as little delay as
possible. Ho had not real the report officially, but it
had been received by the Secretary of State, and to-
morrow he would put a question to him upon the sub
ject. With regard to the commission itself it was not
issued because the Government thought there was
a greater number of judges than was re-
quired, but because they felt that it was
desirable to have the question fully investigated
in order to remove an erroneous impression that exited
in certain quarters. He rejoiced to hear that the con-
clusion at which the commission had arrived was, that
there was not the smallest pretenee for saying that there
was a redundancy of common law judges. It was quite
a mistake to suppose that because a judge did not sit in
his court during the long vacation that he had not suffi-
cient to occupy his mind. He begged to assure the'noble
and learned lord that the report would be presented with
the smallest possible delay.

the decision of the house, without expressing any opinion
on it himself.
Mr. MALINS supported the mandosent.
After some remarks from Mr. AYRTON, in reference
to a petition from a gentleman of the class referred to,
entrusted to him for presentation,
Mr. WILSON opposed the amendment, upon thu
round that it was informal, and proposed the intro-
ou;tion of a new class of claimants for compensation,
vvbich the house ought not to recognise.
The amendment was negatived without a division.
Clauses 121, 122, and 123 were struck out.
\Jr. COLLINS moved an amendment to the schedule,
providing Wakefield as the only district registry for the
West Riding That Leeds be the place of district
registry for the Wapentakes of E ovebross, Staincliffe,
CTaro (including the liberty of Ripon), Skyrack, Bark-
stln, A •h, and for the borough of Leeds, all in the west
riding of the county of York."
Mr. M. S. BAINES secmded the amendment. It was
essential for the well working of the bill and the interest
of the inhabitants that the West Riling of York should
be divided into two districts at least.

Mr. ROEBUCK opposed the amendment. He-con-
sidered it better to have one central district than to
divide them. The hon. and learned member was stating
his objections to the amendment when, it being ten
mitiutes to four o'clock, be was stopped by the forms of
the house.

The further consideration of the amendments to the
bill was then aujourned.

NEW MEMBER.
Mr. YOUNG took the oaths and his seat for Great
Yarmouth.

REVISING BARRISTERS (DUBLIN) BILL.

Tois bill passed through committee.
The other orders for the morning sitting were dis-
p3Red of, and the house supended its sitting.
The house resumed at 6 o'clock.

THE MARINES IN CHINA.
Mr. T. MILLER asked the First Lord of the Admi-
ralty whether the two battalions of the Royal Marines
now under orders for China would receive the field
allowance and the same pay as that granted to her Ma-
jesty's troops of the line when serving in India, should
they be employed on shore or on field duty ?
Sir C. WOOD was under3tood to say that he was rot
aware of any difference being made. The Marines now
en r.,ute to China would have the same allowances as
the Marines already there.

COMMITTEES OF SUPPLY.
Lord J. RUSSELL brought up the report of the com-
mittee on committees of supply.
LAND TRANSPORT CORPS.
Mr. ROEBUCK presented a petition from members
of the laud transport corps, and gave notice of his in-
tention to move that it be printed with the votes.
THE PRINCIPALITIES.
Mr. DISRAELI —Perhaps it may be more conve-
nient if I now make the inquiry respecting recent pro-
ceedings of the ambassadors at Constantinople of which
I have given notice. The house is aware that the am-
bassadors of four European powers at Constantinople
have struck their flags, and I infer from that that they
have at least suspended diplomatic relations with the
Porte. It is understood further that this extreme and
violent proceeding has arisen out of a misunderstanding
as to the form of government to be established in the
Principalities of Moldavia and Wallachia. It was
understood that at the Congress of Paris there was an
accordance of opinion upon this subject between France
and England, both powers being in favour of the union
of the provinces ; but now it would appear that there is
a contrariety of opinion between France and England :
and what I want to know is, whether the noble lord at
the head of the Government can give us any information
on the subject—whether there is any prospect of an
amicable settlement of the existing differences between
England and France, or any fear of an estrangement of
feeling, which all would deplore, or of any interruption
of the much-cherished alliance between the two coun-
tries ? (Hear )
Lord PALM ERSTON—I am not surprised that the
right hon. gentleman should ask the question, as the
various statements which have appeared in the papers
must have given rise to a certain amount of anxiety on
the part of the public. There have been, it is true,
differences of opinion at Constantinople, but not, as the
right hon. gentleman imagines, on the question of union
or no union, but with respect to the regularity or irre-
gularity of the elections which had taken place in Mol-
davia. The right hon. gentleman is aware that by the
treaty of Paris there were to be chosen in the two pro-
vinces representative assemblies, which were to take into
consideration the wants and wishes of the people of the two
provinces with regard to their internal organisation and
arrangement. There were to be commissioners appointed
by the six Powers, to be present in the Principalities
during the elections and deliberations, and when the
assemblies should have expressed their wishes, and the
commissioners should have made their reports on what
had pased, their wishes and :-,heir reports were to be
submitted to the Congress of Paris, which was to reas-
semble for that purpose—not es before, but to be com-
posed of the resident ambassadors from the respective
courts. The representative of the Porte was to be of the
number, and they were to deliberate on the representa-
tions and the report, and to concert with the Sultan an
arrangement for the constitutional government of the two
provinces. Well, the Porte in the execution of this ar-
rangement issued a firman directed to tee governors of
the two provinces, setting forth the manner in which the
elections were to take place. Questions arose.as to the
interpretation of certain parts of the firman, which
had been settled with the uaanimous consent of the re-
, preseutatives of the six powers at Constantinople, acting
in concert with the Turkish government. Certain ex-
planations were given on the 31st May by the Turkish
government in regard to that finnan ; those explanations
were sent to the commissioners at Bucharest and they
were to be transmitted ti the governor of Moldavia
to be applied, not only in Moldavia, but also in
Wal-
lachia in so far as they were applicable, having due con-
sideration for certain local differences as to laws and re
gulations. Well, what with telegraphic messages, what
with irregularities on the part of those who ought to
have transmitted the documents—l speak of the officers
of the Turkish Government—the elections in Moldavia
took place without reference to those interpretations,
and there prevailed an impression that those elections
were not in accordance with regularity and law, and
that if those interpretations had been strictly followed,
the results would h.'tve been different. Tale was repre-
sented to the ambassadors at Cousti a .inople, and four of
them, the French, Russian, Prussian, and Sardinian
severally, and vrithoat acquainting the English and Aus-
trian ambassadors with their inten,ions, celled on the
Turkish Government to annul the elections, have the
electoral lists revised, aid order the elections to com-
mence over again. Tile Porte felt that these demands
which applied to matters that had been treated in com-
mon by the six powers, ought not to come from four
alone, and declined complying with the request, saying,
however, that if it were made by the six, it would place
the mater in a different position. There were misunder-
standings on all sides, and the result was that France,
Russia, Prussia, and Sardinia either all hauled down
their flags or interrupted diplomatic relations, or were
about to do it, and relations were about to be suspended
between those powers and the Porte. The recent visit of
the Emperor of the French to o,borne accompanied by
his Minister of Foreign Affairs, gave the English Go-
vernment an oprortunity of coming to a full understand-
ing with the French Government on this subject, and
we thought undoubtedly that sufficient pri,na Lfacie
grounds of irregularity had nut been proved, but found
the contrary Opinion to be so prevalent as to make it
desirable in the interests of the Porte itself that these
elections should be revised, and be made in conformity
with the accepted interpretation of the firman. We
have reason to believe that Austria is disposed t
take similar views, and, that being so, we have good
reason to believe that the Sultan, not feeling
his dignity or independence at all compromised by eield-
ing to toe representations of the whole of his allies, will
take the course recommended, viz., that of annulling the
elections, having the lists properly revised, and having
the new elections take place 15 days after the lists have
been so revised. Therefore there are no grounds for ap-
prehending any difference of opinion between the Go-
vernments of England a d France on these points, which
would be at ail likely to interrupt the harmony and good
understanding that prevails at present. (Cheers.)
CORPORATION REFORM.

In answer t ) Sir J. SHELLEY,
Sir G. GREY said it was the intention of Govern-
ment to propose a measure on the subject of corporation
reform early in the ensuing session.
SMITHFIELD MARKET.

Sir J. SHELLEY asked the Chancelor of the Exche-
quer whether the Government would, as far as they bad
the power to do so, insist upon the area lately occupied
by the market in Smithfield being preserved as an open
space ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
question had come under the consideration of the corpo-
ration of London, and the latter had laid certain plans
before Government with a view of establishing a dead
meat market on a partion of the site. The Government
did not give' its assent to those plans, and they had been
referred back, in order that other plans might be pre- •
pared. He expected to receive the revised plans shortly.
THE INDIAN MAIL.
Mr. SPOONER asked whether there was any truth
in the report that an Indian mail bad arrived ?
Lord PALMERSTON cautioned the hon. member
against the many idle reports which were current. The
mail had not arrived.
MILITARY CHAPLAIN.
On the order of the day being read for going into com-
mittee of supply,
Col. NORTH, on behalf of Gen. Windham, who was
absent, inquired whether when a clergyman entered the
army as an assistant chaplain, his service counted for his
rAirement in the same way as that of an assistant-sur-
geon ; and, if not, why not !
Sir J. RAMSDEN replied that the serviceof a clergy-
man entering the army as an assistant chaplain did nut
count in the same way for retirement as that of an assis-
tant surgeon, and the reason was that the assistant
surgeon was a commissioned officer, while the chaplain
held only a temporary appointment.
TROOPS FOR INDIA.

Sir DE LACY EVANS, pursuant to notice, rose to
draw the attention of the house to the military arrange-
ments being made for meeting the contingency that has
occurred in the Bengal Native Army. The hon. and
gallant officer spoke in so low a tone that we were unable
to give more than anoutline of his remarks. He was
understood to say that) considering they were about to
prorogue during an emergency of momentous importance
in reference to the military power of the country, i 4

would not be thought unreasonable that he, as a profes-
sional man, should endeavour to direct attention to the
suhject —to elicit from the Government what steps they
had taken or were about to take to meet the emergency,
and, though be was aware teat advice offered to the Go•
vernm en t was not generally acceptable, to state hi- views
of what ought to be done torender the military resources
of the nation adequate t'S the occasion. He feared that
Government had n ,t appreciated as fully as he had done
the importance of the contingency which ha I arisen ; for,
with regard to our naval force, they had contented them-
selves with an addition of 2,000 sailors and marines—an
addition obviously insufficient fur the requirements of the
war which Sir J. Bowring had brought us into in China.
Then as to the militia ; there was an estimate of
200 0001. only for the extra expenditure for this force
until March next ; although it appeared that we had
hardly any rapier troops in Barris or at home. He could
not know what our relations with other countries were
a present, and he hoped there was no reason to ap-
prehend any interruption of peace ; but it was surely
scarcely politic or becoming in a great power like Eng-
land to allow itself to appear t i the world as compara•
Lively disarmed. Bat, having denuded the country of the
regular troops, the noble 1 ,rd the S icretary for War had
put it forward merely as a possible contingency that a
portion of the militia force !night be celled out ; and it
was this c.rcurnstance chiefly that lad him to think that
the Government did not sufficientle appreciate the emer-
gency that heel arisen. In looking raun Ito see where
we might collect our forces if needed, the garrisons of
our colonies must always be regarded as the most im-
portant source. First, there was the garrison of Malta,
consisting of ix or seven battalions. At lea t three of
these should have been sent to India. During the
Crimean war the commander of the forces at Malta very
properly sent away the whole of the garrison—feeling
full confidence is the loyalty of the inhabitants. The
result proved that that confidence was well founded, ar.d
he (Sir De L. Evan-) trusted that a similar course would
now be taken, and that three at least of the battalions
now in garrison at Malta should be sent on to India.
But instead of sending these troops round by the Cape,
he should much rather hear that arrangements would be
made for their transmission, together with a sufficient
force of artillery and cavalry, by way of E rypt, by which
many weeks would be saved. He had been told that
the earnest desire of the Paella of Elypt was to afford
every facility for the transmission through his territory
of the troops destined to meet the emergency in India.
He might have been wtongly informed, but if not he
hoped the Government would not' hesitate to take ad-
vantage of the offer, and that if not the whole, at
least the greater part, of the force would be sent by
that route. The want of a coal depot at Suez had, he
was aware, been put forward as an objection. But
surely that might be provided in a very short time.
There were other considerations with regard to the trans-
port of troops to India at the present moment that were
of great importance. On the 19th May last, a noble
earl in another place inquired what reinforcements they
intended to send to India, and the answer was, that the
Government dud not consider that our territories in that
of the world were at all seriously menaced, but that
4,000 men would be sent in June by means of transport
ships to reinforce the European troops in that country.
But instead of 4,000 he understood that only 554 men
were actually embarked. He admitted that consider-
able exertions had been made to procure transports, and
that since June the number of troops sent out had been
considerably inereased. Up to the Bth August he be-
lieved that about 16,600 men had actually embarked for
India, and that 6,000 or 8,000 more were now under
orders. (Hear, hear.) Four thousand or 5,000 troops
had also been intercepted on their way to China, by order
of the Governor-General, and sent on to India ; and
some additional forces had been likewise drawn from
Ceylon. Taking altogether, including those under orders
for embarkation, the additional European force which the
Indian Government would have at its command, when
they all arrived, would not exceed, he supposed, 28,000
men. That was undoubtedly a considerable force, and
with the artillery, about 100 guns, would be a most de-
sirable accession to the British forces in India. Still be
doubted. whether all the arrangements had been made
which the circumstances of the case demanded. One of
the greatest difficulties to be overcome was the immense
distance the troops had to be conveyed before they
reached the scene of operations. He believed the whole
of the troops hitherto embarked had gone out in sailing
vessels, and he was told that was necessary in conse-
quence of there being no depots for coaling steamers on
the voyage. That was an inconvenience, however,
which it appeared to him might be easily remedied, and
he hoped he should be told that measures had been taken
for that purpose. At all events, he believed he was not
incorrect in supposing that at Sierra Leone, the Cape,
and the Mauritius, coaling stations in every way suit-
able might be formed, each being about 3,000 or
3,500 miles distant from the other. Of this he was
quite sure, that whatever expense might be ne-
cessary for so.important an object as the shortening of ,
the time distance by some 3,000 miles- in conveying out
troops to meet an emergency like the present, by esta-
blishing these coal depots, would be gladly borne by the
country. Unless it could be shown that there was some
practical difficulty in the way, he trusted he should be
told by the Minister that ships had been sent out to form
coal depots at the stations he had indicated. He hoped
that the reply he should receive would give some dis-
tinct information upon this point, and, if it ghoul f be in
the affirmative, it would be a matter of great satisfaction
to him. It had been complained that some of our old
vessels of war now in ordinary had not been despatched
to India, one or two of which in the port or river of Cal-
cutta would, under existing circumstances, be of great
use. These were matters which had been discussed by
the public press ; still he trusted there was no harm in
his urging them upon the attention of the Government.
tHear ) He had seen-recently in a newspaper that Capt.
Osborne's squadron of 16 gunboats 1 ft Rio on the 3d
July. He trusted that that statement was correct, and
that orders would be sent out to arrest the squadron at
Galle, and send it on to Calcutta, for no force could be
more effective in operating in the Indian rivers than a
squadron of gunboats. There were some other points
which deserved consideration in speaking of the reinforce-
merits sent out to meet the emergency of the mutiny of
the Bengal army. Unquestionably 28,000 men was a
very large addition to the European force in India. But
it should be recollected that a large portion of that num-
ber was due in the shape of reliefs for troops whose term
of service had expired. Again, when these troops
arrived in. Octeber their numbers would be diminished
by 5,000 or 6,000 from sickness and other causes. Means
should be in readiness to send out men at once to sup-
ply that deficiency. With regard to the force wlech
which might be drawn from the colonies there were four
serviceable battalions ia Canada. Canada might now
almost be considered an independent ally of England.
She was in no danger from any power, and he saw no rea-
son why three of those regiments shoul i not be at once
recalled. And not only that, but he would venture to
renew a suggest on he made during the Crimean war,
that advantage should be taken of the sympathy meal-
tested by the Canadian people in the affairs of the mother
country, and that the offer they then made to raise two
Canadian regiments to be added to our regular army, but
which, front some Jealousy existing at the Elor-e Guarde,
had been decline I, wattle!, if renewed, be new accepted.
Then as to the forces at the Cape. He had previously
expressed his regret that so large a force should be kept
up by the Government in that colony. There were at the
Cape now, he believed, 11 regiments of infantry, a strong
regiment of mounted rifismen, and 2,800 Germans. Yet
at no time were the Kaffirs less able to make inroads
into the British territory ; and seeing that the Cape had
the advantage of a free government, it was too much to
call upon the Imp3rial Government to protect the whole
of the extended frontier, or to do more than to afford
them some assistance towards enabling them to guard it
themselves ; 4,000 British troops acting in this way
would be sufficient fo keep the Kaffirs wite in bounds for
the next few year., when the protection of the country
might safely, he hoped, be given up to the colonists. ie
was told that by maintaining this large army at the Cape
we had bent saved another Kaffir war. Eve ait it were
so, which he questioned, he did not see any very great
advantage in being saved from a war, if for that purpose
we had to keep up a war establishment in time of peace.
But of late years we had kept up a larger fcrce at the
Cape than at any period during the Kaffir war, and as
there could be r o necessity for maintaining so large an
army there, he trusted that he should bear from the
Government that they bad taken steps to render the
troops at the Cape available for the emergency in India,
where, as they were already half-way, if orders bad been
sent on in the first instance they would arrive long
before any troops sent on from this couetre could do.
It was intended during the war with Russia to send
one of the Regiments at the Cepa to the Crimea,
but some technical difficulty arose, and the conse-
quence was that the regiment never came. He had ob-
served as a rule that the governors of distant colonies
were very averse to parting with their soldiers ; but the
force at the Cape was altogether out of proportion to any
demand that could arise for their services. He thought,
under the circumstances, three or four battalions of in-
fantry, and the 2,700 or 2,800 men of the German Legion
would be an ample force for the defence of the colony,
and that seven battalions might be spared for India
without danger. If, however, the Government contented
themselves with merely sending orders to the governor of
the colony to send all that he could spare, he should en-
tertain great doubts of the result. He thought it was the
duty of the Government at home to take the responsibi-
lity upon themselves, and to issue peremptory orders to
send over so many battalions, for unless they did so he
did not believe that any very groat forte would go from
the Cape to India. (Hear.) Ile understood from the
newspapers that the Governor of Bombay, inintediately
on hearing of the mutiny in the Bengal army, had very
properly despatched two ships with reinforcements to
Calcutta. He did not expect the same course would be
taken by the Governor of the Cape without orders from
the Government at home ; but he trusted, if such orders
had not already been sent out, that no further delay
would take place in forwarding them, and that the result
would be an addition of six or seven regiments of in-
fantry to the available force at Calcu'ta. It was clear
that not less than 100,000 of the native forces in India
had either been disbanded or were iu arms against us;
and even if they should have received that blow which
he trusted had ore this been struck at Delhi, it would
still leave us three or four years of serious work upon
our hands to re-establish our military position in India,
and place us on our former footing and security, both as
regarded India and Etirope. As he had said. when the
forces which had been sent out arrived in India, it would
be found that considerable diminution of t'neir numbers
by sickness and other disabling causes would have 'act
curred, and after their arrival still greater leases meet
be anticipated. It was necessary--t 0 provide for these,
and the only means of doing so was by recruiting the
militia. At all events, be trusted they would not be
compelled to resort to the enlistment of foreigners.
(Hear.) Well, theta the only means of suPPlYiag the
casualties and maintaining the effective strength of the

army was by recruiting for the line and the militia, and
as a means for supplyirg the ranks of the army he looked
to the maltia as of far greater importance than recruit-
ing. If there wile asey br inch of our military system
that failed durino the late war it was the recrui.ing.
The life Lord llardioge had given his decided testimony
to that effect, and many hon and gallant officers then in
the house knew how perfectly unsatisfactory and un-
available, it was. Now he thought the time had arrived
when they ought to consider what were the causes of
this great difficulty which undoubtedly existed of re-
cruiting the army. The chief reason, he believed, was
that adequate inducements were net offered to young
men t.) enlist. He believed 101. only was the meximula
bounty in the late Rue-ian war, whereas in the previous
war double that amount was allowed. But it had been
stated, he believed, by several authorities, and amongst
them the late Commander-in-Chief that a heavy bounty
was objectionable becaire it encouraged desertion. That
!might be so ; but, whether or not, he would suggest to
the government that it was a subject well worthy of their
consideration what were the causes of the difficulty of
recruiting the army, and what it was that occasioned the
tin willingness on the part of the great body of the people
to enter into the military service of their country ; be-
cause, unless means could be devised for facilitating the
reinforcements of the army very serious results might
talc() place. (Hear, hear.) Looking, then, to the militia
as the chief source from which reinforcements to the
regular troops could be drawn, he confessed he was
disappointed when he found the estimates to be pro-
posed for the militia was only 200,0001. (Hear, hear.)
Re had heard it said that at some tines between
this and Christmas 30.000 of the militia might be
called out, and bad also heard reasons put forward why
they should not be t m precipitate in this matter
—on the ground that it might interfere with the re-
cruiting of the army. He, ho.vever, thought those rea-
sons wholly insufficient, and would respectfully urge
up m the government the advisability of making a:range-
meats for the imtnedia4e calling out of the whole militia
force. Let them consider for a moment what was the
f wee at home at the present moment. When the esti-
mates were brought for ward for the peace establishment,
some months back, he stated that in his opinion it was
not the duty cif any member of that house to presume to
dictate to the Government the military force which ought
to he maintained for the service of the country, but he
could net but remark that there was at that time only
about tbirty-one or thirty-two battalions of the line in
the kingdom. Then what was the means announced for
supplying the deficiency ? He understood it had been
announced that all tho battalions or regiments of
the line at home were to be raised Cr, n 840 (h,
present complement) to 1,000 men each. But the
number of battalions at home was so small that that
would scarcely give them more than 2,000 or 3,000
additional men. Then they were to have ten second
battalions of 1,000 each raised, which would give alto-
gether an addition of 13,000 or 14,000 men. But that
was wholly inadequate. If no warlike operations were
anticipated we ought to show to the world on all oc-
c Isions that we possessed an inherent service of military
strength ; and every means ought to be resorted to for
that purpose. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the affairs
of the East, the house had in the accounts in the public
journals read many statements of heroic conduct on the
part of the British officers in India, and he did hope
that government would lose no time in manifesting in
some conspicuous way their sense of the services of those
gallant officers. He might mention especially the two
Lawrences and Lieutenant Willoughby—one of whom
in Oude without any force, another in Msdras, and the
other in the Punjaub, upheld the authority of the Go-
vernor and prevented an outbreak. Then there was
Brigadier Wilson, who bad evinced great skill and
gallantry.
An Hoer. MEMBER—And Major Edwards. (Hear.)
Sir DE L. EVANS—Yes, and Major Edwards ; he
wished he had a higher rank than " major." (Cheers.)
There was another distinguished instance of the re-
sources, the energy, and the bravery of a British officer.
He commenced at once to levy troops, and operated with
the utmost efficiency. Ail those he trusted would re-
ceive from the government the reward they so richly
merited. He would not trespass further upon the atten-
ti we of the house. There was one circumstance, how-
ever, which had struck every mind in this country, and
almost every mind in Europe, in connexion with this
outbreak, and that was the extreme ferocity and inhu-
manity which had been displayed by the Indian sepoys.
The supposition arising from such conduct wool' be that
they bad been long suffering under some oppression ; but
the fact was just the reverse: No troops in the world
were treated with more consideration or enjoyed greater
advantages than the sepoys of the Bengal army. The ex-
planation of the atrocities of which we read on the part of
the mutinous troops, was he believed that they had drunk
large quantities of raki, which was more maddening in
its effects than any other spirit. He trusted that they
would be punished with the utmost severity, and that no
false humanity would stand in the way of the well-de-
served retribution which ought to fall upon them. (hear.)
Momentous as this state of things was he must neverthe-
less call to mind that the people of this country were not
in any way intimidated by the serious position in which
at one time we stood during the Crimean war, and that
although at one time that gigantic struggle was of a
nature calculated to distress any of the most powerful
governments in Europe, the people of this country, in-
stead of being therefore deterred from prosecuting the
war, were full of enthusiasm, and were desirous of
carrying the war further, The same feeling he was con-
fident, would animate the country on the present
emergency, and, with the concurrence of the House of
Commons, would place in the hands of the Government
all they could require to restore tranquillity in India.
One word more. He trusted the local government
would find the necessary specie for enabling them to
carry on their operations with energy and efficiency ;
but, whether or not, he trusted that in the aid which
was sent them from home an ample supply of specie
would not be forgotten. (Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON—I am sure the house will
agree that the high military character of the hon. and
gallant officer who has just sat down must command the
attention and respect of all those who have listened to
him for any opinions he may have expressed, even though
they may not altogether share in them to the full extent
that he does himself. (Hear, hear.) And therefore, sir,
I trust he will give the Government credit for having
listened with respect and deference to the sentiments he
has uttered, so honourable to himself and so valuable, as
practical suggestions, coming from so authoritative a
source. However, I think that the hon. and gallant
gentleman has somewhat overrated the European diffi-
culty produced by the events which have occurred
India, arid the efforts which we shall be compelled to
make in order to meet the resultof those events. The bon,
and gallant gentleman seems to think that foreign nations
may be led by the knowledge of the amount of force
which we have detached to our Indian possessions to think
that we are weak and defenceless at home, and that at
this time an opportunity is afforded them to assume
a higher tone, and to adopt other measures toward,
this country then would have been prudent in them
under other circumstances. With regard to that ques-
tion, I think the latter observations of my hon. and
gall ant friend are an answer to his preview remarks
The nations of the world have seen with what an
unanimous spirit and with what energy this country
responds to the coil of the government in moments of
national difficulty ; and if any foreign government or
nation think that the circumstances of the moment
would render it more sate for them to assume an atti-
tude towards this country which they did not think it
prudent to assume before, I believe that they would soon
find out their mistake, and without loss of time would
resume their accustomed attitude towards England. It
is true that we have occasion to send, either from this
country or our colonies, a force which in round num
bore amour.ti to 30,000 men to India ; but we have.
taken and are taking such steps as we think best
calculated to fill up the gap in our forces at
home. Measures are being taken such as were
mentioned by my hon. and gallant friend. W.
are raising recruits as fast as we can to fill up not only
our regiments at home but in all other parts of the world
to their highest standard, except those in India, which
have been already raised to that standard. We are also
raising ten battalions in addition, and we propose to
call out a portion of the militia. My hon. and gallant
friend seems to think that thero is not such a disposition
on the part of the people of this country to enlist in the
army as he could wish to tee ; but I do not think that
the example of the Crimean war bears out that assertion
—for we raised no less than 50,000 men in twelve
months, a number double that which had been raised at
any former period. The inducements to the people to
enter the army 'are the career of a soldier, the
advantages derivable from pensions after certain periods
of service, and the general respect which is felt towards
the military body, and I do not think that there is any
ground for saying that these inducements are not suffi-
cient to procure soldiers. Of course the lowering of the
standard would some s bat facilitate recruiting ; but at
period like this, when there is a demand for labour for
purposes of the harvest, it is not a matter of surprise
that men who can get high wages during the harvest,
until that is over will be indisposed to enlist, howl
ve
ever e-
sirable they may think a soldier's career ; an
doubt that when the harvest is over weshall
geotfarecruits
d hsa rn y
mnio
men as we require, Even now the numbnenron,idrabie,
which have been obtained is by no meaanbei' it may be
and the recruiting is gt lig on
said that we ought to raise 20fa T
battalionsue a blo u t;
tbo urtaiwsehaal
would be the use of saying thatlr
force larger than recruiting would enable us to raise ! It
regiments withinta
seems to us better to farm as
will enable us to raise
given period as airmen)
and when those regimehsatsyahroenf.oramndedgtahlelanntto
friend says
the raising of others. M
that a larger force of ilitia ought to be embodied than
it is the understood intraention to call out. But there ar«
two limits to this maintaining of troops—first, the means
,ting, and, secondly, the expenditure which will
bferienacruarred. The militia, like the regiments of the line,
require to be recruited, and no doubt if we could tell
this house and the country truly that we were on the eve
of European difficulties, that differences were likely to
arise between us and foreign States whicn might end it
events which would require us to make efforts for self-
defence—l say there isno doubt the house would respond
to the call and sanction the imposition of fresh taxes,
in
order to afford means fur taking such measures as the.
Government thought necessary to provide a militia or
any force adequate to the defence of the country. But
fortunately such a consideration does not arise ; there
nothing pending between us and any foreign State which
is likely to lead to a repture. I therefore think Taut N, e
should itiastain from calling on Parliament to gretv
any extraordinary means until they arfe__requtini
Thera are two errors into which men maybearllicasgienii7g
overlooking existing dangers,
a danger that has no actual exiasuteancteh;
rehend that the
not to f
of
a g(3".rnenent to avoid the latter asea wno(tle lita las ttahkee dcuatrye
all into the former. I do noit appely
13"- et. t state of things anYthing 111
40 C. to happen to

place us in any difficulty at an earlier period than tt at in
which we shall have restored our herne ferce to our ordi-
nary peace establishment. The uffeirt of Indio, are no
doubt as serious as they are latnentnele, and win require
continuous efforts to meet them ; but ae far, a, foreign
countries aro concerned nothing has happened to alter
the condition of things which exlsten at the beeinning
gallant, friend In—
of the year. My hon. and tinted net
and everything that comes irons hire is well deserving
of consideration—among other things that which has
been suggested elsewhere, the de i 'ability of sending
through Eeypt the reinforcements destined for India.
In the first instance this is a measure which apperecs to
wear a eery favourable aspect; but there are enesidera-
tions (assuming that which my hon. nail gall',nt friend
justly assumes, that the Government of Tuneey and the
local Government of Egypt would make no ahjectiou) sou-
fleeted with the transport of a number of troops through
Egypt by way of Alexandria and iuez which make it a
'linter of great inconvenience ; SO much so that then
the regiments from India which were sent to the Crimea
by the way of the Re.l Sea had been sent on, our Corm.
General in Eeypt stated that there were , o many diffi-
cuniee connected with the arrangem ews that bonenen
he shoul I net be asked tie make arrang- masts f ii. a
similar proceeding again. In that c I:es, :gee every
arrangement was made beforehand fer suinnying means
of transport, and every preparation was made for f )cili-
tating the transmission of those regiments to the Crimea.
But, take the caste as it stands eoiV, and :suppose that
tomorrow morning we were to send three or four
thousand troop; to India through Eay e a Wile e w euln
be the operation 1 We must be pr: pared not only with
the content of the local authorities, but we Roost pre pare
the means of transport across the desert, net 'only for
an army with its baggano and stores ant pronieier a for
the march, but we must be ready in the Red Sea fah
a sufficient number of transports to carry them ca to
India, We must write to :India, and the li en go.rern-
ment at Bomb Ay must provide trerwporte, and wo d them
to the Red Sea ; which, as my hen. and gallant friend
knows, is very difficult of navigation for seilecg slips
for half its course, and it is not likely that steamers of
sufficient magnitude would be found at B enbay for the
purpose. It would be a matter of considt.rat; on whether
all these operations would not occupy so much . ime
that troops sent overland through Egypt would prob sbly
not arrive so soon as troops sent oat in ships wine , go
round the Cape. It is very questionable whetter such
en arrangement would tend to at ain the object sought.
I will not mention all the objections connected with
landing men and stores at Alexendia, and ',carrying
them up to the railway, and embarks; them amain at
Suez. These embarking: and disembarkings are, not car-
ried on without much damage to stores. It is no doubt
true, as my bon, and gallant friend says, the force at the
Cape is larger than is probably wanted, and a part of it
might be conveniently despatched to India; and my r fight
hon. friend the Secretary for the Colonies hers already
written to the Governor of the Cape, stating that in ad-
dition to tee two regiments already ordered out, he may
send to India such a portion of the g irrison of the Cape
as he thinks can be safely spared. That having been
already done, Sir G. Grey has a full discretion to send
out what hoops can be spared without danger to the
colony. More than that ; it having been represented to
us that there might be a want of horses in India for the
eavairy and artillery, arrangements have been made for
sending a supply of horses from the borders of the Per.
sign Gulf and from Mesopotamia, and directions nave
also been given to purchase horses at the Cep) to be
sent on to India for the same purposes. To touch liehtly
on a topic which has been the subject of much difference
of opinion in this house, the Chine war, I may say that
even those who disapproved of what was done in that
respect must admit that out of evil good has come—
(hear and laughter)—for but for that, the force which
was landed at Singapore could not have been there for
,ervice in India—(hear and laughter)—and I "Pope that
will reconcile some gentlemen who disapproved of the
course pursued by the Government to events which pro-
duced this result. (Hear.) My hoe, and gallant friend
leas suggested that we should revert to a proposal which
was made during the war of raising battalions in our
North American province. That is a matter worth
consideration ; but at present I will give no opinion on
that subject. But I may say that we were mainly guided
in not giving effect during the Crimean war to the pro-
posal made in Canada by the circumstance that we were
at that time engaeed in the discussion of questions of
some difficulty with the United State:, and it was not
thought desirable to withdraw from Canada any large
body of men which might be required for the defence of
those provinces. My hon. and gallant friend diverted
to what is passing in India, and heroic energy displayed
by officers, both civil and military, in almost every part
of India ; and I must say, that while on the one hand
the events which have occurred must be afilictinn to
the feelings of every man, on the other band, every
Englishman must feel a pride in his country-
men, when he sees that a few Englishmen be tttered all
over that vast country havo been found equal to every
emergency, and shown not only courage, but successful
courage—(hear, hear)—who have proved themselves to
be not only brave, but have exhibited skill and judgment
—(bear, hear)—and accomplished things of which the
peeple of any country might well be proud. (Hear,
hear.) This is at all events a consolation and a satiefac.
tion, and may be put against the darker side ef the pic-
ture. (Hear, hear.) I can only assure icy hon. and
gallant friend and the house that while we are at pre sent
doing what we think necessary to meet the difficulty
Before us, and at the same time not going beyond what
we think the existing necessity, if events should turn out
differently from what we believe and hope they will, if
times shoull come upon us which we do not at present
anticipate, we have the resource of calling Parliament
together, and asking them for additional means for pro-
viding for the defence of the country which the circum-
,tances of the moment may require. Bat, as I have said,
while it would be blameable in the Government to shut
their eyes to the difficulties which exist, and the exer-
tors required to meet them, on the other hand, it would
not be consistent with the duty of a responsible Govern-
ment to ask Parliament to impose burdens on the coun-
try which in their conscience they did not think at the
present moment necessary. I have now etate Ito my
hon, and gallant friend, with all deference to him, the
points on which I agree, and those on which I niffer
with him, and I can assure hiin that it is the anxious
desire of the Government to do all that the present emer-
gency requires. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel NORTH urged that it wan not advisable to
drain this country of all its trained soldiers, and to rely
solely on newly-raised battalions and the militia for our
some defences. Even looking at the matter from a
nercantile point of view, if this country was worth pre-
serving, it was worth any money which was txpeadod
on its defence.
Mr. BENTINCK said that the remarks of the noble
tad would have been more satisfactory if he had entered
nto some details with regard to the defences of the
eauntry. Tile noble lord told them that if foreign nations
.vere to take advantage of our position, the country
would be found ready for the emergency ; but that was
merely an opinion of the noble lord, and, with a Ire, pact
to him, amounted to nothing. The noble lord went on
to say that he saw no necessity arising out of the state
4 things in Europe for keeping up a large force in this
country ; but that only rested on she nobly lord's opi-
nion ; and he would contend that the question of the de-
fence of the country ought not to rest on the point
whether or not an emergency was hinny to arise. If an
emergency should arise, it would be too late to take pre-
cautions, and to assemble the House of C enneons. and
Ask for grants of money when it WWI too late. If the
Anne lord had condescended to en er a little more into
letails with regard to the defences of the country, it
would have been more satisfactory then his somewhat
vague statement.
Sir H. VERNEY said that it was ell very well for
those who were in comparative safety to talk coolly
About the officers of India ; but what must be the teen
logs of those who were in that country, when they
thought that all that had happened had arisen from a
want of foresight in those who governed India. It was
cot possible to pass over this emergency and treat it by
means of a few patriotic phrases. Why ought not a tele-
;raph have been sent to Lord Lyons desiring; him to
send six ships of the line to India, each 01 which ought_
to have taken a regiment from Malta or Corfu,and
conveyed them to Madras or Bombay or wherever they
were required. What objection could there be to such
a course / There might be European reasons why we
the
could have sent out troops from home
htnoul,_ ;,,it
gum.
should have a large force in the Meditorranea,,nu;,pbluft w e
place of those sent to India. Then, why b I
ell the In.
boats have been sent out which could not
uopf the tlwns
dian rivers, on the banks of which ma
";:i di as A llaha.
the 1t109.13111.83 ,„•
bad. We had not takenhe
w ei,
aiing
was
rased
were situated I They could go up a which .we
ought to have done, and.t inn
a ie empire. The fault did
ninicapore, and as if there
owvaesr
naos
the present government, but
not lie with the .
whichhie ought to have protested evilest
with that house,
end of the war. For instance,
cifrisiits wasin oteufrony
course taken at the .
artilleryman had been disbanded ; and, recruit as
you would, you
could not get those trained men anaiu.
with the House of Commons and its false
/Ault lay
;he
r,
hOeocoe u
economy.
ivis. oefEWDEGA.TE said there were two conaidera•
lions connected with this subject that were very much
overlooked by the house. One was, that whatever pro-
spect there might be of immediately quelling the mutiny
in India, it should be recollected that India must for
years be garrisoned in a different manner to that in
which she, had hitherto been, and the matured and tried
.soldiers which had been sent .out must remain there.
There ought,. therefore, to be preparations made to main-
tain in this neuntry not only our peace establishment,
but such a force as would enable us to reitiforhe our
troops in India, 'i. Then, with regard to the militia, it wad.
It
was incouvenie. at no convert is into a stan
diu
out
of iin Dees
was a force win, th was intended. to tie cAlidre
ge
character as a fo, tee reserved for an
of emergency, at Id by treating it
a :werguenlacryawriasayditse.
stroyed.
a standing army in
members wiehed 'So
to keep up a
rg• reciairen in a great
... that which VMS
Mr. W. WILL JAMS was nolat surprised that many
time of peace equal ..
War. nt ? It was on Government that
of those gentlemen was
onsider when a large force was
they must depend in, '
ul'se of Commons had never refused
the üßsenotfwahgaotvienrn :the
necessary, and theßeto .opinion
tilindtaa, overnment considered necessary.
had come immediately after the
G overnment would of course have
the
as in stood. The feeling of the -bowie
retained the army [ any
aytrhi te:. rim:
heu tiwitnhuyisesihitnna ,
orYthe eva untry utdver: ally was ttat we
ositi pa in India; hut the Government
parties to consider by what means that
the proper
were that house with
to be done, and .
not- gentlemen in
was The
i 1 ttle military knowledge.
lordtat and very .i..
of
mustrecover Commons and
P
not.'present state of affairs,
' d for the
le had told them that he was ready to do every
thing which was require ,
but he W bound to ass
q into the consideration
of the people, which did not
sent
hte:r e Wit 6 a general con&
considesr the uestion of the taxation
of some hon. gentlemen..
country in the Govern.
1 deuce in the tiouse and in tli',