The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-30 00:00:00

rHE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY; so, 1857

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

proper ones, and they could grant licenses to persona to such darker shape. He ought to have stated at first
take on them the care and confinement of lunatics, and any that the composition of that commission took away all
persons who kept lunatic asylums without licenses were suspicion of partiality. It was composed of two gentle-
liable to a penalty of 2001. for each offence of sending men experienced in cases of lunaey, and in charge of
any lunatic into custody. The sheriffs had to attend to lunatics under the system in England, of a gentleman
all matters relating to the length of time during which who was an experienced lawyer in Edinburgh, a sheriff
lunatics were confined in any licensed houses, and no one of one of the populous counties of Scotland, who could
could be detained without an order from the sheriff. He not be supposed to set himself against his brethren the
could show that, notwithstanding this, the granting of sheriffs of Scotland, or against the board of supervision,
licenses was the exception ; that houses of detention were and of a medical gentleman of Edinburgh, and all these
opened without licenses, that people were detained as gentlemen seem to have set their mind on giving a fair
lunatics without any order or any medical certificate, and impartial account of these things in Scotland. The
that many of them died, and that the facts of their committee of supervision in their reports of the last four
deaths were not stated to their friends and that years only stated that "they had no change to announce
they thus disappeared without any notice being in the management of lunatic paupers this year ;" but in
taken by the authorities. The statute which regulated their last report they seemed to have some misgiving,
the care of lunatics in Scotland provided that no one and they said they had called the attention of the inspecs
should receive into his exclusive care any lunatic person tors to the irregularities which had arisen. He thought
without a certificate signed by two medical men, and the sooner the Beard of Supervision was dispensed with
that on their reception into a house of detention, within the better. (Hear, hear.) The former statements of the
five days the certificate was to be transmitted to the board were vague, but the last one was an insult to the
sheriff ; and also, that within seven days of the Ist of Government, to the house, and to the country. He did
.January in each year a certificate of tNO medical men not ask what measure Government would take to die-
was to be sent to the sheriff describing the state of pease with the Board of Supervision next year, but he
the lunatics, and any deaths which might have occurred asked what measure they would take now.
were to be notified to the proper authorities. Regis- Sir G. GREY was not surprised that his hon. friend,
tries and accounts were to be kept, and entries were to as one of the representatives of Scotland, should have
be made of the state of health of each patient, and of felt it his duty to take the earliest opportunity of calling,
the deaths of any of them. In all cases of coercion not the attention of the Government, for their attention
and restraint entries were to be made of the causes of had been called to it before, but the attention of the house
such restraint ; and entries were to be made every day to the report which had lately been presented to them, of
of the progress of the disorder of such patient, and of the committee appointed two years ago to inquire
the necessity, more or less, of restraint. Any keeper of into the care and treatment of lunatics in Scotland,
any house who did not keep such books was liable to containing, as the - report did, a statement of
a heavy penalty. The law, therefore, would seem to facts and allegations calculated to throw the greatest
have clone enough. As regarded pauper lunatics in Scot- discredit upon that portion of the United Kingdom.
land, they were in the hands of the parochial boards, He would not follow his hon. friend through the de-
which were under the control of the board of supervision tails of that report ;he would only express a hope that
in Edinburgh. The law as it stood enacted, that when a the observations he had made would lead hon. members
poor person chargeable to a parish became insane, the to read it for themselves, especially the Scotch members,
parochial board was to see that within fourteen days he because on them mainly depended the adoption of those
was properly lodged in an asylum to be provided for means which alone could be effectual for remedying those
such persons. The board of supervision, however, on gross cases of abuse and neglect which were contained
proper cause shown them, in particular cases might in this report. In one respect only did he differ from
allow a lunatic to be left in the bands of his friends, the hon. gentleman. He said that the state of the law
due inspection being made as to his being properly in Scotland was from being defective, and that the de-
cared for. The asylums for pauper lunatics were also sub- feet was in the administration of the law. He (aiz. G.
jest to the inspection of the sheriffs. In England there Grey) thought this report showed the greatest defect in
was no legs! appeal on the subject of the allowance of a the law. Let him call attention to one passage of the
pauper lunatic, but iu Scotland there was such an ap- report, which was the key, in fact, to most of the
peal to the Court of Session, which Court might make abuses : "A. curious anomaly exists in the statutes. They
an order of maintenance on a pariab. Tne power, require that pauper patients shall be sent to public asy-
therefore, over keepers of lunatic asylums and over lams, while they omit to make provision for the creation
the parishes was as complete as it was possible to be. of those asylums." There did not exist iu Scotland at
The hon. gentleman then read extracts from the reports the present moment asylums supported by local rates, or
of the Board of Supervision for 1847 downwards, all of from the public funds, for the reception of this class of
which went to show that all the provisions of the patients. The consequence was, that the only asylums
law had been complied with as regarded pauper to which they could be sent were asylums which owed
lunatics, and he stated that he should be able to sbow their origin to the benevolence of individuals, which
that these reports were false, and that the condition of were self-supporting, and to which only patients could
the pauper lunatics was diametrically opposite to that be sent whose friends could pay for them a sum far be-
which was stated in those reports. Three years ago he yond the reach of the class of pauper lunatics. After
MILITARY EDUCATION. brought in a bill for the inspection of parochial boards these came the licensed houses, the poor-houses, or those
Sir D. L, EVANS gave notice that on Thursday, the and paupers, on the ground that the Board of Snpervi. portions of the pose-houses appropriated to lunatics; and
11th June, he should submit resolutions for the conside- sion was lax, and that paupers were mach neglected in these places were of the worst possible description. Then
ration of the House on military education. Scotland, but he was met by the reply that his state- there was that numerous class of pauper lunatics who
CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATIONS. meats were exaggerated, for the purpose of getting up a were left to the care of their friends, who were subject to
"
Mr. BASS asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer case, and if he had moved for a commission of inquiry as treatment which in Many instances was too horrible to
what was the course pursued when candidates for em- to the state of pauper lunatics, he should no doubt have contemplate. This . report
clearly demonstrated a most
ployment in the civil service were nominated by mem- been met with the same objection. But it was a subject defective state of the law—a defect which existed at one
bers of Parliament ; whether a candidate so nominated of congratulation that, through the exertions of the Lord time in this country, but which had been remedied by a
was necessarily admitted to examination ;whether there Advocate, a bill had been brought in and passed, under law which required every county and borough in Eng-
was any competition fofemployment in the civil service ; which inspectors had been appointed. The report hat land to contribute by local rates to the erection and
whether, in fact, with the exception of a simple exami- originated from the inquiries of an American lady, a maintenance of asylums for the reception of pauper
Miss Dicks, who came here on a philanthropic mission. lunatics. That being the case, he could only assure
nation as to the ordinary qualifications for office, the old
system of patronage and favouritism did not remain in
She found in the course of her inquiries, that the lunatics his honourable friend that as soon as this report was in
full force ! in
Scotland were in a miserable state, and at her persua- the hands of the Government his attention was mime-
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
Bien and instance Government appointed the commission diately given to it ; and he conferred with regard
that all the particulars of the regulations referred to
to examine into the subject. He should not be doing jun. to the measures to be taken with the Lord Ad-
would be found in an order in council, dated May, 1850, tice to the lady if he did not say that all who read that vocate, and he would state generally what steps had
which contained all hon, members should know—
report must feel grateful to her for having been the been taken. But first let him say a few words with
(laughter)—besides which, if he studied the report of the means of showing up a state of things that was disgrace- regard to the origin of the report. He entirely concurred
Civil Service Commission, he would find the manner in ful to this country. The statements in that report were with his hon. friend in the tribute of admiration which
which that order had been carried out, most horrifying, and he invited hon. members to read it he had paid to a benevolent American lady who visited
CORRUPT PRACTICES PREVENTION ACT, as the only means of carrying home to their minds the this country some time ago. She took a deep interest in
state of things as it actually existed. Under the statute, the welfare of this unfortunate class of persons, and after
Mr. CROSS asked the Secretary of State for the the visitation and supervision of pauper lunatics was the visiting the asylums in this country, she went to Scot-
Home Department, whether it was the intention of the duty of the sheriff; but the report stated that only in land, where he gave her every facility for inquiring into
Government to extend the provisions of the Corrupt one case—that of Mid-Lothian—were the regulations the condition of the lunatics there. Even before those
Practices Prevention Act, 1854, to municipal elections? licensing houses for the reception of lunatics drawn up visits of Miss Dicks to the licensed houses and other
Sir G. GREY said it was not the intention of the Go- by the sheriff, and there they had fallen into disuse, It places where pauper lunatics were confined the matter
vernment at the present, at all events, to apply this act stated also that persons were often removed without any had been brought under the attention of Government,
to municipal elections,
POLICE (SCOTLAND).
medical certificate ; that there was no sufficient examine- and they thought it desirable that a commission should
tion or supervision ; that in some counties no houses for be issued for the investigation of the subject, and his hon
Mr. MACKIE asked the Lord Advocate if it was his the reception of pauper lunatics existed, and that the friend only did the Government justice in saying that
intention to introduce a police bill for Scotland during greatest abuses existed. Under the provisions of the sta. their desire was that that commission should be
socom-
this session !
tote, it was necessary that records should be kept of all posed as to ensure a faithful and efficient discharge of an
The LORD AD VOCA.TE said it was his intention to that took place in the asylums, but in most of them this important duty. After perusing the report he thought
introduce such a bid this session. was neglected, and in many of them even the necessary it his duty to send a letter to the Board of Supervision,
HONDURAS. books and forms had never been procured. It followed with a copy of the report ; and he informed the board
Mr. DISRAELI inquired of her Majesty's Govern. if some of these asylums were licensed and some not—if that the statements in the report demanded and would
meat as to the reasons for the non-ratification of the no record was kept, and no supervision took place—ne. receive the attention of Government with a view to re-
Treaty
between her Majesty and the Government of the glect would naturally arise. And it appeared that the medying the evils that existed, but that independent of
United States about Honduras ;as to the present state lunatics were insufficiently fed and clothed, subject to any measure which Government might think it right to
of the negotiations ; and whether papers would be laid mechanical restraints ; that they had to sleep on the brieg into Parliament, he called the attention of the
before Parliament. floor ; were without comfort or medical requirements, board to the gross cases of cruelty and neglect in the ad-
Lord PALMERSTON said that in the course of last and in some instances there was no separation between ministration of the existing law. He received an imme-
summer, two treaties were concluded—one with Hon- the sexes, and the whole object seemed to be to crowd as diate reply from Sir J. Me-Neill, the chairman of the
dares and the other with the United States—by the many as possible into a given space. In every house they board, assuring him that the matter should be brought
former treaty the Ruatan Islands were ceded to found handcuffs, leg-locks, and strait waistcoats. And before the board at its next meeting, and requesting to
Honduras, under a convention that existed, pro- the commissioners added that on the death of a patient be furnished with information on various points, upon
vision being made for the protection of the inhabitants, in one of these asylums no notice is given to the sheriff which he addressed aletter to the Lunacy Commissioners,
who were to be a, neutral and not a military station, under whose warrant the incarceration had taken place, requesting them to place themselves in communication
He then referred to the conditions of the though the statute required that notice of the death of with the Board of Supervision, and to give them the ful-
treaty between this country and America, one every patient should forthwith be given to the sheriff, lest information. He would not now enter into a defence
part of whieh was that Great Britain and the United Nobody believed that such a state of things could have of the Board of Supervision-110 would only ea y that he
States engaged henceforth to acknowledge these islands existed in any civilised country, especially one that laid thought it right the house should suspend its judgment
as a past of the territory and sovereignty of Honduras, especial claims to superior civilisation and enlightenment. until they had heard what the board had to say, He
These treaties had been sent, one to Honduras, The commissioners had experienced great difficulty in believed that his
lion, friend had overrated the power of
and the other to the United States, for ratifica- obtaining a correct return of the number of persons in- the board, but he was far from saying they were free
tion. Up to this time nothing had been heard from carcerated in these places. They applied, therefore, to from blame. That blame, however, was shared b the
Honduras, but the Senate of the United States thought the Board of Supervision, but they could obtain no in. inspectors, by the sheriffs, b the clergy, by the juystices
proper to alter their treaty, none of which alterations formation that could be depended upon. The returns of the peace, and by the commyisssiotinnerslof su been
He be-
were important, and her Majesty's Government had the board had were far from complete. They had no ac- lieved that one defect of the existing law had
.that
waived all their objections to the alterations except one. counts of the number of lunatics in the poor-houses, nor divided responsibility which had engded as usual in no
The one to which he alluded was that no reference should of the number of lunatic paupers who lived with friends, one taking upon himself the due performance of duties
be made to a convention that existed relative to the and were supported by out-door relief. They appealed of this kind. (Hear.) The Lord Advocate at his request,
Ruatan Islands, but that the treaty should simply state to the clergy, and he (Mr. Ellice) was sorry to say that had also addressed a letter to the sheriffs, calling their
that henceforth they would acknowledge these islands as no reliable information could be obtained from them, it attention to their neglect in exercising their visitorial
part of the territory of Honduras, which would have the appearing that the clergy, like the others, were in the powers. When their answers were received his right
menappearance of a concession. Her Majesty's Govern- interest of the ratepayers. Ultimately they applied to hon. friend would know what measures it might be pro-
jestyt could not consent to that alteration, and her Ma- the constabulary, whose returns showed a very large in- per to take with reference to that part of the subject.
's Government had made certain representations to crease on those of the board of superintendence. They He hoped that the Government might not be accused of
the United States, which it was hoped would be ac- found that the number of paupers in Scotland was 7,403 neglect in the measures they had taken with a view to
jcepted. He declined producing any papers on the sub- of whom 4,600 were lunatics. But of these 4,600 pan. correct, as far as was possible, a gross defect in the ad-
ect, but would rather wait till the treaty was ratified, per lunatics, only 1,500 were in the chartered asylums. ministration of the existing law. Beyond this, his right
and then lay it on the table for the consideration of the In licensed houses there were 426, but in the poor. hon. friend would take the earliest opportunity of asking
house. houses and living with relations and strangers there were the house to agree to a bill whioleit was hopedwould
After some further remarks from Mr. DISRAELI and 2,671, The great majority of the paupers of Scotland were remedy the existing evils. This was not the
ttime
Lord PALMERSTON the subject dropped. out-door paupers. In consequehce of the want of ac- that such a bill had been proposed to parliament. Lord
The motion for adjournment was then agreed to. commodation in the asylums, private houses have been Rutherfurd, when he was Lord Advocate, brought in a
THE PRINCESS ROYAL'S DOWRY.
opened, where no care was taken as to the suitableness bill which, if passed, he believed would have prevented
The house then went into committee on this bill. of the premises, the number of persons crowded within many of these evils. That bill was read in that house
On clause 1, granting an annuity of 8,000/, a-year to them, or the fitness of the proprietor or conductor, But with the warm approbation of most of the Scotch teem-
her Royal Highness on her marriage, besides these asylums and private houses, there were the bers ;it was referred to a select committee, but the op-
poor-houses, and as to them he would refer to the case position which was raised in Scotland proved fatal to it.
however, that in the event of her Royal Highness be-
Mr. BOWYER moved an amendment to add, provided,
of two houses in Edinburgh. The report stated that at He trusted that this report would lead to a very diffe-
Coming Queen Consort' of Prussia, the said an- the Edinburgh city poor-houses and St. Cuthbert's, pa- rent result with regard to the bill to be brought in by
•
nuity shall cease and detsrmine from the date tients were admitted without medical service—they were his right hon. friend. He the trusted that disorace which
of the access ion of his Royal Highness Prince never visited by the sheriff, nor was there any license now attached to Scotland with regard to the care of pain
Frederick William of Prussia to tile throne of Prussia. obtained, the neglect in this respect being, it appeared, per lunatics would be thereby removed; and that that
In the event of her Royal Highness surviving her bus- consequent on the desire to save the fees. If such was and the other house of parliament would kindly co-o e-
band he proposed that the annuity shouli be revived. the case in Edinburgh, what must be the condition of rate with Government in the adoption of those P
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER resisted those receptacles for persons afflicted with the direst that were necessary to attain that end. H a measures
visitation to which humanity was subject in the more re- Mr•DRUMMO said when Lord Rutherford had
the amendment, and said he woul I much rather the
mote districts ? And what security was there for the brougiet in his bill, he with him in order to
re-
house had net consented to the second reading of the
bill than agree to the present amendment. (Divide.) liberty of the subject ? "Economy wail " said the corn- getand sLomeredreturns giving information on the subject,
Rh un tt h ehref uwr da3 gavebeat
bhim
the every
systematic assistanceop p ion.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS, who had given notice of a missioners, " the rule of conduct, and thus Was the state
of the accommodation accounted for," With reference his power ;
similar amendment, supported the amendment of the
to the removal of pauper lunatics to hhe asylums, or sition of every single person connected with Scot-
hon member (Mr. Bowyer), He thought a prince must
from one asylum to the other, the commission stated, in land. This report showed that the object in Scotland
be a man of mean spirit to accept with his wife an
reference to one caSe, the removal of paupers from was to care for property and not for the lunatics. If there
annuity to be taken from the high taxed people of ono- reference
Royal Asylum, at Perth, to Musselburgh was one institution, or a set of men in Scotland more
ther country.
and
nsdickoef
Mr. WALTERS could not support the amendment as that the manner of it was disgraceful, and that from the' guilty than another, it was the board of supervision. In
it now stood. If the annuity was to cease on her Royal want of
the accommodation
patients
rapidly n
eattention
died
dt the latter
T he They
no one instance had a magistrate gone to inspect these
n asylums.ot .
llet
i 3i
rninYes,
because ther e whaes
wasone instancepapist. ;and
The the
Poor-1
would
,
Highness becoming Queen of Prussia, the amount place,
also referred to many instances of great cruelty inflicted
should be increased. He had no objection to make a
• viz., that if the period of the amount was during the removal—in one, that of a woman who was as it stood, had been well defined as an act to deprive
compromise, viz.,
removed last year, and was brought with a stick tied in the poor of their rights. He would give to the house
limited, the amount should be increased to 12,0001. a
year. (Hear, and laughter.) her mouth and behind her head, the effect of the_ pres- three instances. In the first case a poor woman of 64
sure being that her tongue mortified and was lost. He had lost theeheuse of her right arm and was afflicted with
Mr. DISRAELI opposed the amendment, repeating
the arguments he used on the second reading of the bill, came now to the ca-e of those lunatics who were ageallowed 2s, per month, out of which
He added that the annuity would not be furnished out ported by out-door relief, and who came more especially asthma,
deducted for Another case was that of
of the taxes of the people, but out of the Crown estates ' under the superintendence of the board. HeP found .81 wasa
notdeserteed bynr
what they
husband, He (the hon. gentle-
given up by her Majesty, when she ascended the that the number was 1,363, but the commissioners •a
woman
know they allowed her, but she lived
Throne, which returned 260,0001. to the Exchequer, said they had only arrived at an approximation of eonatyefuponn at. turnip which one of her children had
a:to:en. l a cart. In the third case, the pauper had
He characterised the present proposal as being a shabby the numbers. The condition of these lunatics was ex-
one, and said the question whether the Queen of Pres- tremely bad. With regard to them there was no in- nominal allowance of 4e per week, but of that the in-
File should or should not be a pensioner of the country, sPeetion i they were left to chance and the mercy of s ectir took away 3s, for ;wet. All these cases had been
Providence. The instructions given by the Board of Su- brought before the board of supervision, and it had re-
torested with Prussia and not England. It was our place
pervision were that they were immediately to report to peatedly refused to interfere until at last some persons
make proper - provision for the marriage of
te• princess. The time was come for the them all cases of insanity. But those instructions were insisted upon its attending to them. He was glad the
by no means stringently acted upon. Many of these sub'ect had at last been brought befora the public, but he
house to consider upon the present system of coca- by
lived in remote districts, where removal to warned the hon. member that his efforts would fail un-
poqing her Majesty to make such appeals to the house,
an asylum would entail great expense. There was, how- lees be exerted himselfr to the utmost. (Hear.)
and he could not approve of the jealousy of the people
Mr. F. DUN AS, in reference to a case mentioned
cerned, no check of any kind. The sheriff, took no ceg-
of •'this country that deprived her Majesty of the ever, so far as the inspectors of the parish were con-by Mr. Ellice, he had a letter from Professor Ay-
postfeesion of territorial rights that would enable her
nisance of these cases unless they were specially reported. said
to make provision for her family.
him flat,
sahfteerriffinostuttubteincgonanntyiinnquqiurye:tion,
he was satisfied
who assured
Sir P. BARING, after some remarks relative to the It depended on the inspectors of the parishes whether
hereditary revenue of the Crown, said he should oppose they reported these lunatics or not, and very few con-
sidered it their duty to report them. The commissioners that the woman was labouring under a delusion. Still
thieaniendment.
Z. ROEBUCK said that, as the "sense" of the said : "The inspectors of the poor practically assume an he (Mr. Dundas) was afraid that so good an answer
could not be made to all the charges which had been
committee appeared to be against the proposition of the unwarrantable power over poor patients, in keeping them
at home, or in placing them with strangers or in trans-
h°nouratle and learned member, as it was against himbrought forward; and he was glad, therefore, that an in-
vestigation had taken place which was likely to put an
furring them from one place to another, and in transport- end
on a former occasion, he advised him not to divide the committee.
ing them, when English or Irish paupers to Enland or
to so serious and so grave an evil. (Hear, hear.)
After some discussion the amendment was withdrawn. Ireland." As to the general treatment of these paupers,
after all, with the
Sir T. COLEBROOKE did not wish to lighten the re-
The clause
they bad a fearful account in the appendix to the report,
uoinsetiritatstet.hen agreed to, and the bill passed
The . . . "The sponsibility which rested on the local authorities and on
the board of supervision ; but he could not help thinking
through
commissioners said : greater part of these
that the primary responsibility was,
p
AUPER LUNATICS (SCOTLAND.) paupers are with their friends or with strangers, the
On the order for go* • ' ing into a Committee of Supply, generality of them in a destitute condition. Some of imperial legislature.. This was not the first time the at-
Mr. E. ELLICE rose to call the attention of the
house
seengrauernnicaeihe
tention of parliament had been called to the sub'
them are chained, some are locked up in small closets,
ject. It
to the report of the Commissioners of Inquiry into the many are confined in their beds, filthy, infested with
ande rnsui ni
only
increasedB44 ; bu t tthhees
evilt e p
...t h...att,h we as
tsetpa, kneanmi !lel
yc r 0 f-
had been fully treated on in the report of the Poonlaw
State of Lunatics in Scotland, and to ask what steps the vermin, covered with rags ; some are allowed to remain
dividing the responsibility, insteadof leaving it, as it had
been till then, solely upon the ' •
Government intended to take for immediately securing naked ; some are in straw, and their rooms emit an in-
1-tb Rutherford brought forward.
proper
was!irotection and
maintenance. He said that his,rnbeytiownhich
it
to pauper lunatics in Scotland tolerable stench. Others, again, are homeless, and al-
, with
since,adto a select rn
lowed .to wander about." One instance was given in oaeriffe. The late Lord
founded on
which a lunatic had been chained to his bed for 13 years .
a bill which was received
the report of the hommiseioners
appeared
that the laws relating to pauper lunatics in Scotland had the chain being 21 feet long. There was another case,compliments from al:, the Scotch members, but it
was ref
heard ;r
with arose out of a
been greatly disregarded •; and laisstatemeet vrould of of two wretched women. One was confined in a wooden ommittee and it had never been
The opposition which that bill had met
• cipally of extracts from
.that report. The state of cage is a corner of a room, She had been so for 13 years,
hnietaken economy, for there was no
win
things with regard to lunatics in Scotland was eery du_ and was of course furious. Her sister, at the age of 32,
nexe.ring. in cases of mental disease were in
fact in medical In Scotland, became insane also. The parents whom they lived with
chances of reinaclo oerience so well established as that the
ferent to that in England and Ireland,
were described as being in a continual state of intoxica-
INN' ~using
thought it right to say that instead of a board of commissioners appointed totake care
tion. And thee there was another important matter— ?To oortion as the with •
of lunatics, the charge of them devolved on the sheriffs' themsra.mj:
remedial treatment promptness which the
of counties and the Coard of supervision, which stood in
hon. g entleman was mistaken in su
the number of these lunatic women who bore children, was applied.
the elect) of the Poor-law Board ia this country. Though (Hear.) It appeared that there were about 120 or 130,
P n 8 .ciTu eadt t'
the
eatro.
the abuses which existed were perhaps attributable to a as__ far) It
the commissioners could ascertain, of these want of precision in the law, yet in many respects the !ohneen who had borne children, and it was believed there cious cose of cruelty he had describePd ol Perth
provisions of the lam were ample for the protection of
Could not
cases which had escaped observation. He asyluiri, The cruelty took place elsewhere, and pauper lunatics, if roperly carried out, and he charged "1" conceive a more horrible state of things. Then tient was afterwards taken to the asylum t* • pa-
p in question
the Commissioner&
the eheriffs and the board of supervision with an almost
lunatics were left mentioned other cases in which the whe re she was treated with great bumanity. He though'
total neglect of the duties incumbent on them according They said that inE
without a sufficient supply of food, the y were greatly indebted to the Government for the
to law. The power and duty of the sheriffs was to de- , a week. The coratniinburgh the allowance was only 29. virgour and ability with which the matter had been taken
tide on every manor which was deemed necessary saying that the detailssioners concluded their report
which had ey up by the Home.office. •
witli reference to lunatics ;to ascertain whether any gave only an imperfect representationbeen furnished them L, Col. SYKES said that until a recent period the treat-
perione were confined who ought not to be so confined,
;of the case ; they formed oal a of the true state I :ment of lunatics had been no better in England than it
end to see that all persons were set at liberty if the cis : misery, and had they been able' part of the picture of : wasnow- in Scotland. The royal commissioners
cumstances of their cases allowed of it. They were ' • it . _ to. extend their investi- pointed, and now the condition of thos h were
apt
0 Un appy per-
gations, would, they were COLIIIIICed, have emu d t a
bound to see that places of confinement for lunatics were .me a . sous was in the •
,z, highest degree creditable to the nation.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPBAKEB took the chair at 4 o'clock.
NEW MEMBERS.

Lord U. G. Lennox and Mr. B. Baring took the oaths
and their seats.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a third time and passed :
The Dublin and Wicklow Railway; Dumbaiton
&c. ; Great Western and Brentford Railway ; and Isling-
ton Parish.
The following bills were further considered and ordered
to be read a third time :—Briton Ferry Docks, Burslem
and Tunstal Gas, Glasgow City and Suburban Gas, Glas-
gow Gas, Kidsgrove Market, Saint Helens Canal and
Railway, Scottish Central Railway, Waterford and Tra-
more Railway.

that the Government factory produced Lancaster shells
at 1-3 d of the price charged by the trade. The Enfield
manufactory was established to supply a certain portion
of the public demand, but it was never expected that it
would meet all the demands of the army from time to time.
Mr. DRUMMOND said the hon. gentleman spoke of
this manufactory as being contrary to sound commercial
and political principles, but the most important question
was how this country could be supplied with the best
possible article. He had beard some advice given to
young members that evening : if he might gently offer a
hint it would be that they should read the blue-books on
the various subjects into which committees had inquired.
They would find that to trust to the trade would be to
trust.to that to which-no trust could be given.
After a few words from Mr. EWART, the vote was
agreed to.
On the vote of 221,0001. for artificers' wages,
Sir W. CODRINGTON called attention to the desti-
tution prevailing at Woolwich. He thought some steps
ought to be taken to relieve this distress ; he would not
say by a direct vote, but by some means whieh might
fairly fall within the means of the Government. The
peo le ought to be passed to where they could get work.
Sir W. WILLIAMS would urgently press upon the
Government the consideration of the matter to which the
hon. and gallant member had referred.
Sir F. SMITH called attention to the small pay which
Government artificers received ; he trusted that this evil
would be remedied.
Mr. BRISCOE and Mr. TOWNSEND corroborated the
statements which had been made with reference to the
distress prevailing at Woolwich.
Toe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the subject had been under the consideration of the Go-
vernment, which had felt extremely desirous, if they
could, to grant a sum to aid those persons to whom refe-
rence bad been made. But it had been felt, if the prece-
dent were once set, a door would be opened for claims which
it would be difficult in many cases to meet. He under-
stood that many of the persons who were now out of
employment were mere labourers, who nevertheless had
received from Government good wages, almost equal to
those of some classes of skilled artificers. Under such
circumstances those people, being now discharged, re-
futed to take work at the wages which they bad formerly
received, but endeavoured to obtain similar wages to
those paid by the Government. Upon this they had, as
might be expected, been unable to obtain employment.
From communications which had been received from the
Poorlaw Board, he had been led to suppose that the dis-
tress was not so great as the hon. gentleman supposed.
The vote was then agreed to.
Upon the vote of 228,5701., for clothing, dte., for the
army,
Mr. WILLIAMS called attention to the fact that the
clothing of the Horse Guards cost double that of the ca-
valry of the line, and with regard to the Foot Guards
that the expense was more than double that of the cor-
responding expense with regard to the line. He also
urged that the number of Horse Guards was much larger
than necessary ; it had been stated in that house by the
Duke of Somerset (Lord Seymour) that 400 men would
be amply sufficient for the purposes for which the
Horse Guards were required.
Sir J. TRELAWNY pointed out that the regulations
of the Horse Guards prevented them obtaining a tho-
rough knowledge of their profession. He complained also
of the extra pay enjoyed by the Guards as compared with
the line, and that on service the Guards were exempted
from detachment duty. At one time during the Crimean
war the commander-in-chief, the chief of the staff, and
three generals of brigade, were Guardsmen ; this showed
that they were favoured more than the line. Another
privilege they possessed was that they were not called
upon for colonial service. The hon. gentleman referred
to several other privileges which the Guards enjoyed as
compared with their fellow-soldiers of the line. He de-
nied that there was anything in the argument that the
Guards were entitled to peculiar privileges because they
paid mere for their commissions than officers of the line,
seeing that the addition was compensated by extra al-
lowances.
Sir J. RAMSDEN reminded the hon. baronet that
they were on the vote for clothing, with which the sys-
tem of promotions in the army, or the difference between
the privileges enjoyed by the Guards and the line re-
spectively, had nothing to do. Whatever abuses there
might be in the system of promotion, or however wrong
it might be that the Guards should enjoy privileges
which the line had not, that was no reason why our
troops should go naked. (A laugh.) He advised the
hon. baronet to bring the subject forward as a substan-
tive motion on a fitting opportunity.
Sir J. TRELAWNY was proceeding to repeat a
question put and replied to on a previous day as to the
good conduct pay of the sergeants, when
The CHAIRMAN interposed, observing that the
question had no reference to the vote before the house.
Sir J. TRELAWNY was still insisting on his right,
amid loud cries of " Question," when
An HON. MEMIER rose to order.
The CHAIRMAN again decided that the hon. baronet
was out of order.
General CODRINGTON intimated that when the
question was properly before the house he should be
prepared to defend the Guards against the statements of
the hon. member.
Sir J. TRELAWNY thought the hon. gentleman the
Under-Secretary for War would have treated him with
a little more of courtesy. (A. laugh.)
Sir J. RAMSDEN, in reply to Mr. Henley as to the
increase in the charge of clothing, said that under the
change that had recently been introduced, all the cloth
and material for the clothing was sent to Weedon to be
inspected, and it was the development of the new sys-
tem that occasioned the extra charge. The total sum
was 174,0001. for the clothing of 69,722 men. The
average Cost per rnau was 21. as. 6d.
Mr. E. ELLICE suggested that in future estimates it
would be well to have the number of men placed in a
column against the cost of the clothing.
Colonel BOLDERO doubted whether the present
system was more economical than the old one, but he
admitted that it was an improvement,
Mr. S. HERBERT remarked that it was not intro-
duced as a measure of economy, but to relieve colonels
of regiments from a good deal of odium which, under the
old system, was most unjustly attached to them.
The vote was agreed to.
617,9001. was voted, in addition to the 319,00 a pre-
viously voted, for provisions, forage, fuel, and light.
In answer to Mr. RIDLEY,
Sir J. RAMSDEN said there was no intention of
making any alteration in the allowance for billeting.
In answer to Sir J. TRELAWNT,
Sir J. RAMSDEN said improvements in the system
of accommodation in barracks for married women was
being gradually carried out.
Col. SOMERSET complained of the smallness of the
allowance to infantry officers of 2s. a day for the keep of
a horse. He also urged that an allowance for one horse
to the lieut.-colonel of a regiment was not sufficient.
Captain VIVIAN complained that the officers of ca-
valry had Bd. a day taken from them to pay for the keep
of their horses.
Sir J. RAMSDEN said that 2s. a day had been fixed
after great consideration, and it was thought to be quite
sufficient, especially as the general contract price of the
keep of a horse was only ls. 6d. The stoppage for horses
of cavalry officers was under consideration.
The vote was then agreed to after some further con-
versation.
The next vote was 400,0001., in addition to 199,0001.
already voted for warlike stores.
Colonel BOLDERO said he saw the other day at
Woolwich two monster mortars, made to throw shells
weighing 478 pounds. The shells were made in the ar-
senal at Woolwich. He wished to know by whose au-
thority those guns were made, whose property they
were, and what they cost I He was informed they cost
12,0001. a piece. They had not been proved, and he
wished to know if they were to be tested, and whether
they were for land or sea service !
Lord PALMERSTON said he was the person who
ordered the mortars. (Hear, hear.) In the beginning of
the war with Russia these mortars were projected by
two ingenious persons, and ordered by the Government.
One was intended for the Baltic, and the other for the
Black Sea, but there was a failure in the firm which was
to make them, and they were not finished till the war
was over. They had not been tried, but he had no
doubt they would have been very efficient. ;
Colonel BOLDERO—To whom do they belong, and
what did they cost I
Lord PALMERSTON—They belong to the public. I
can't say what they cost. I will give notice when they
are to be tested.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY complained that it was not
clear that ad the sums specified in the estimates were
spent on the articles on which they were applicable. A
Ot,oeooa/t.nnwkansnwin h
spent lastand :
year for gunpowder
sWurnhatof 7waos the

They had therefore every reason to hope that similar re-
sults would follow the adoption of a similar course in the
northern part of the island. Only there must be no di-
vided authority, and the staff must be partly a paid one
and partly composed of gentlemen who gave their ser-
vices from purely philanthropic motives.
The LORD ADVOCATE was far from regretting the
strength of statement employed in the report, and by his
hon. fr ienclf ; on the contrary, he rejoiced at it from the
very bottom of his heart. The existing state of things
had long been a disgrace to Scotland. The attention of
Parliament had been called to it several years ago, and
an attempt was made t.) provide a remedy, but that at-
tempt failed. Every ore of the suggestions contained
in the commissioners' report had been proposed by
his deeply lamented friend, Lord Rutherfurd, in 1848 ;
but there was at that time not a single petition in
favour of the measure. So far from it, his lamented
friend's bill was petitioned against by twelve of the
largest and most important of the Scotch counties.
(Hear.) After the failure of his noble friend he (the
Lord Advocate) did• not feel justified in putting the
subject forward again until circumstances should have
brought about a change. In 1854, however, he passed
his Valuation Bill in older that assessments might be
made at a future time is aid of any public object. In
the next year that noble-minded woman (Hiss Dicks)
came to Edinburgh and visited the asylum. She said
that there was something wrong, and wished to be
allowed to make a visit at night when she would not be
expected. He (the Lord Advocate) felt some difficulty
in giving authority to an unofficial per.on to do what
she proposed, and she therefore applied to his right hon.
friend the Home Secretary. His right hon. friend asked
him his opinion, and he (the learned lord) stated that
the whole dealing with lunacy was utterly disgraceful,
and that it could only be reached by a commission of
inquiry, or by immediate legislation. The commission
which had just sat was thereupon appointed, and he
(the Lord Advocate) rejoiced to think that if the mea-
sure which bad failed in 1848 were now proposed, there
would be hale fear of its meeting any serious opposition
in either house. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend might
depend on the subject receiving the best attention of the
goverment. (Cheers.)
Colonel SYKES said the house should understand
that the censures contained in the report were not of
universal application. There were asylums in Scotland
—that, for instance, at Aberdeen—which would bear
comparison with the very best in the country. (Hear,
hear.)
Mr. J. H. JOHNSTONE observed that their infor-
mation on the subject of lunacy was now much more
complete than it was forty years ago. The government
would meet with the general and cordial support of the
people of Scotland. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. FERGUS hoped the Lord Advocate would bring
in his measure without a moment's delay. (Cheers.)
The Speaker then left the chair.

SUPPLY.
251,2281. for manufacturing departments, barrack
masters, storekeepers, ate. Mr. SPOONER asked for an explanation of a certain
advance, which he understood had been made to an
American house, to enable it to take a contract for small
arms, which house had sine* failed.
Sir J. RAMSDEN said it would be in the recollection
of the committee that when the war was at its height
there was a very great demand for small arms. Orders
were in the first place given to all the English houses
which could take them, and then contracts were entered
into in France. Still the demand coLtinued ; and Messrs.
Fox and Henderson, who were then engaged upon va-
rious contracts for the Board of Ordnance, stated to the
Government that they could procure 20,000 stand of
arms from an American house. The arms were to be of
the very best construction ; but it was stated that in
order to enable the American house to set up the
extensive machinery that would be requisite, an advance
must be made. Under the circumstances, and con-
sidering the pressing nature of the demand there was for
arms, it was considered advisable to make the advance
asked for. The whole contract was for 87,0001. odd, and
it was agreed to advance one-fourth, it being stipulated
one-fourth should be deducted from the payment en ac-
count of each instalment of the muskets delivered. After
a time, however, the Government were informed that
more money would be wanted, and it then became a
question for the Government to consider whether it
would realise the securities deposited with it or make
further advance. The latter course was adopted, and the
total sum thus advanced amounted to 35,6591. During
all this time the muskets were being delivered of a very
good quality and with great regularity, but when ten
thousand had been sent in the Government received an
intimation that the contract could not be completed. The
balance due at that time from the American house was
24,1101., and steps were immediately taken to realise the
securities. These consisted of a mortgage on the Ameri-
can manufactory and machinery, and of a claim on the
estate of Messrs. Fox and Henderson. Messrs. Fox and
Henderson had also failed, but it was right to say that
not a shadow of an imputation rested on them, they
having acted throughout in a thoroughly honourable and
straightforward manner. (Cheers.)
Mr. SPOONER asked whether it was true that a
proof for 2,5001. had been tendered against the estate of
Messrs. Fcx and Henderson I
Sir J. RAMSDEN could not exactly say. Of course
the Government had no claim against Messrs. Fox and
Henderson's estate until the American property had been
realised and proved to be insufficient.
Mr. NEWDEGATE was understood to assert that
the home trade would have been perfectly able to supply
any amount of arms required if it bad only been treated
with fairness by the Government. It was improper for
the Government to employ foreigners in the manufac-
ture of arms, when the Birmingham manufacturers
were able to turn out 160,000 stand of arms a year.
Lord PALMERSTON twitted the hen. member with
advocating the interest of his constituents. The hon.
gentleman had referred to the first year of the war ;
but it should be remembered that unless they had been
supplied with arms at the beginning of the war, the
Government would have been blamed for the neglect.
As to the notion of improved arms being kept a secret,
nobody but the hon. gentleman supposed that this could
be done. If an improved musket was brought out in
Russia or any other country, it would be immediately
a P
fOe O w
introduced here. (Hear, hear.)
qEueßstiroenpaliferdo'm Mr. Wittiest;
Sir J. RAMSDEN denied that any workmen had
been enticed from Birmingham to Enfield. It had been
After Mr. S N
discovered that one man, who had been employed at
Enfield, had left his employment at Birmingham, and be
had been sent back. He denied that the Government
were anxious to take the trade into their own hands.
After a conversation, chiefly between Mr. SPOONER
and Lord PALNERSTON,
Colonel SYKES said that in thirteen years there had
been a loss of 500,0001. upon the manufactures carried
on by the Government. The change of weapon from the
"Old Brown Bess" to the improved Indian rifle occa-
sioned an extra eirpenee of 31. Bs. 6d. per piece ; and this
expenditure would shortly be increased, for an improved
musket had been produced, and he contended that the
British soldier ought to have the best description of
arms. He objected to the manufacture of small arms at
Enfield as an infringement on the principles of free trade.
Colonel NORTH supported the vote.
Mr. NEWDEGATE reminded the house that the
Government had not set up this factory at Enfield in
opposition to the private trade of England, and asked
was it right that the officers of this competitive esta-
blishment should be made judges of the works of their
rivals in trade I To make the competition fair, and pre-
serve the character of the public servants, they should
separate the inspection from the manufacturing depart-
ment.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the hon.- gentleman
assumed there was some personal interest in this matter.
He spoke of competition as if any person made a profit
out of Enfield. That manufactory was established to
produce the best possible description of weapon for the
public service, and the private trades were called on to
do the same. It was necessary that some person should
be appointed on the part of the Government to see that
the arms furnished by the trade were equal to pattern,
and the proper person to appoint was one acquainted
with the process of the manufacture.
Mr. CROSSLEY had originally opposed the vote for
this manufactory, and all he had seen or heard since had
confirmed his opinion. He objected to have the officers
made judges of the arms supplied by the trade. He would
sugge,t that some gentleman acquainted with arms
should be appointed to examine those produced at En-
field, and by private manufaoturers. If an accurate ac-
count was kept he believed the Government would find
they were considerable losers.
Mr. DISRAELI said the noble lord denied that En-
field was a competitive establishment ; that was true to
this extent, that the manufactory there had not yet pro-
duced a single rifle, although it had drawn away the
best artificers from the private trade, and had caused many
to enter into the service of foreign governments. He con
sidered that it was a very great mistake on the part of
the Government to make an advance to a private manu-
facturer with whom they had entered into a contract.
(Hear.) But in this case they were not content with an
advance. The question raised by the hon. member for
Warwickshire that evening was a very important one,
and although the present vote might not be a fit occa-
sion to decide it, the house would before long have to
press a decided opinion one way or other. It was con-
trary to every sound commercial principle that Govern.
ment should enter into competition with private traders.
If the manufactory at Enfield was a competitive estab-
lishment, they were working against private trades with
capital drawn from the general taxation of the country ;
but if it was not a competitive establishment, it was
nothing but a normal school of gun-making, and it be

Colonel BOLDERO said that when we went to war
with Russia we had an immense supply of gunpowder ;
that supply had been devoured during the war ; and be-
fore the war was over we were getting deficient in pow-
der, and it was quite proper to furnish all the magazines
again.
The vote was then agreed to.
153,1361., in addition to 82,0001. already voted, for
fortifications at home and abroad was the next vote.
Sir C. NAPIER drew attention to the insufficiency of
the defences at Woolwich.
Sir F. SMITH observed that the Portsmouth defences
were very effective.
Sir C. NAPIER had not said a word about Ports-
mouth, but urged that a hulk in Portsmouth Harbour
would have been as good as the harbour battery.
Lord PALMERSTON said the question of the de-
fences at Woolwich was an important one, and had oc-
cupied the attention of the government; that the pecu-
liar conformation of the ground about Woolwich would
always render it difficult to defend it by works on the
land side. Against any attacks by water it might be
defended by gun-boats and batteries, but on the land
side they must always, he believed, depend upon troops
for its defence.
Mr. RICH trusted the committee would pause before
making any grant for fortifying commercial towns, or
raising batteries which might be altogether useless.
Sir C. NAPIER had no doubt that a great deal of
dependence might be placed upon the army, but it could
not do impossibilities. By means of redoubts Woolwich
might be put into such a state that it would be impos-
sible for an enemy to take it by a coup de main, and he
trusted some works would be thrown up there which

came necessary to ask what was result—produced by
the expenditure on it.
Lord PALMERSTON feared that a good portion of
the discussion turned on the meaning of words ; if the
Government were to set up a manufactory of Articles
to sell, then again that would be a competitive establish-
ment and a very impolitic proceeding ; but if the ques-
tion was how the wants of the public service were best
to be supplied, in his opinion the more the Government
did under the inspection of their own servants the better.
Of course no government establishment could be on such
a scale as to supply all the wants of the public service.
His right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty
kept a competition establishment for building ships, but
when a great number of gunboats were required, he had
to ask the assistance of private traders. Some years ago
there was a want of line-of-battle ships, and forty were
ordered from the private builders ; but they were so bad
that they were called the "forty thieves.' The advan-
tage of public establishments was, that things supplied
were good in quality, and as cheap as possible. Lord
Panmure had lately established at Weedon a manufac-
tory of clothing for the army, and the result was that
the things were much better made, and the cloth of a
bet ter quality than bail been supplied by the contractors.
The same way with the manufacture of cartridges ;
and when he wax at Woolwich last year he found

would be capable of resisting any sudden attack until
efficient relief could be afforded.

Lord PALMERSTON said that representations had
been made by .8 everal commercial towns to the effect that
they were totally unprotected against attacks from
foreign cruisers. The estimates were so framed as to pro-
vide for the execution of batteries to defend these ports,
but her Majesty's Government intended to proceed gra-
dually and to erect only such works as were considered
the most necessary. He believed that very trifling out-
works would be sufficient to defend these towns, and was
confident that they would provide such a volunteer artil-

levy corps as would be able to man the batteries in case