The Sun.
London, England, 1861-04-30 00:00:00

I AIPE RIAL PARLIAMENT.

EXPLANATION.—B. Barometer, corrected and reduced
to 32 deg at mean sea level; each 10 feet of vertical rise
'causing about 1-100th of an inch diminution, and each 10
deg above 32 deg causing nearly 3-100ths increase. E.
Exposed thermometer in shado. M. Moistened bulb (for
evaporation and dew-point). D. Direction of wind (true—.
not magnetic); F. Force (1 to 12—estimated). C. Cloud
(1 to 9). I. Initials :—b , blue sky; c., clouds (detached) ;
f., fog. ' • h., hail ; 1., lightning ; m,, misty (hazy) ; 0.,
overcast (dull) ; .r., rain ; s., 'now ; t., thunder. A letter
repeated augments—thus, r,r., much rain. S. Sea disturb-
ance (1 to 9).

WAYS AND MEANS.—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Mr. HORSMAN, in resuming the adjourned debate
for going into committee of ways and means, Fetid—
The Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed to remit ld. on
the income tax ; but suppose, instead of taking off the duty
on paper, he reduced that tax by another ld., or
by removing the duty from tea and sugar, would
he not be acting more in conformity with the
sentiments of 99 out of every 100 in the whole community.
(Hear, hear.) He denied that the conclusions as to a
continuance of peace on the continent were justified by
events, and described all Europe as a vast camp, and
referred to the statement of the Prime Minister at the
commencement of the session to show that that
noble lord did not partake in the feeling of security in the
maintenance of peace throughout Europe, of which some
honourable members were so very sanguine. He
contended that in the present state of Europe no one was
desirous of removing the Government at, present;
and that their defeat on a single resolution of this budget
did not necessitate their resignation. He did not wish un-
necessarily to draw the attention of the government to
their misfortunes, but he could not help reminding them
that they had already sustained a defeat. (Hear, hear,
and laughter.) There never was an occasion when it was
more necessary to follow the prolific principle of Sir R.Peel,
and to try by a reduction of duties 20 to stimulate consump-
tion as to derive a greater revenue from lower duties, and
when they got into committee he should require a better
reason than any which had yet been given to induce him to
agree to a course which did not recognise the interests of
the poorer classes. (Hear, hear.) There was one class of
gentlemen whose attention would be devoted to this task.
Those who had for years I een employers of labour, many
of whom have given noble instances of benevolence and
patriotism by their practical efforts to improve the condi-
tion of the working classes, and he would ask them if, con-
sidering the additional comfort which would be given to
the people by the reduction of the tea duties, they would
support the repeal of a tax which could in no way be to the
advantage of the poor—(hear, hear)—and to continue those
duties which infringed specially on the comfort of the ope-
rative classes. (Hear, hear.) To talk in figures, which
would be more comprehensible to the working classes than
to talk of millions a year, and thanks to the energies of a
cheap press the working men of England would be able to see
those figures, he could inform the house that the pressure of
the duties on tea and sugar amounted ta about £1,15G7 a day,
and therefore he could not but rejoice that the House of
Lords had last year prevented a boon being given to the
paper-makers which should be especially given to the poorer
classes. (Hear, hear.) He was aware that to the middle
class the sum he mentioned appeared inconsiderable, but
taken off tea and sugar, it would add enormously to the
comfort of the people. (Hear, hear.) Last year, when the
House of Lords rejected the bill for the repeal of the paper
duty, the operative classes did not know the boon it would
be to them if the duties were taken off tea and sugar, or of
the wrong which would be done them by the repeal of the
paper duty ; but he believed that they had grown in know-
ledge since then, and perhaps it would he found that at the
next general election their knowledge would be complete.
(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) As regarded the paper dutyper
se, everybody, he believed, was quite ready to repeal it, if
it could be done safely and justly, and if it could be vindie '
cited on sound principles of finance. (Hear, hear.) He
had come down to the house 10 years before, when the
repeal of the paper duty was proposed, and he had
always been anxious to support it since, but he had always
been induced to vote against it by the speeches of the re-
spective Chancellors of the Exchequer. Tn the present in-
stance he believed that the proposal arose more from a poli-
tical than a financial motive, and he wished to point out to
the house the various classes of objections which had been
or could be urged against the measure. The hon. member
for Huntingdon pointed out one class of objections. He re-
ferred to the state of India, the condition of affairs in the
Levant, and the general unsettled state of Europe, as rea-
sons for fearing a diminution of trade, and he asked if under
these circumstances the Government were so sure of their
revenue that they could afford to give up a most prolific
source of revenue. As regarded anticipation of a continental
war, they had received great confirmation in what fell from
the noble lord at the head of the Government on Friday
night, for he said that, looking to the state of Europe,
Prussia might soon require the support of England. (Hear.)
With regard to the second class of objections they had been
gone into in detail by the hon. member for Stamford. He
pointed out tho non-fulfilment of various calculations of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and remarked that the ba-
lances in the Exchequer had been reduced •C 1,500,000 added
to the debt, and £1,000,000 of Exchequer bonds issued to
perpetuate a debt which we were pledged to pay last year—
(hear)—and the repudiation of which went to reduce the
deficit of last year, and, to assist in making this surplus for
the coming year.. It appeared also that lest year there had
been anexcess of expenditure of £2,558,384, and with re-
gard to that item the right hon. gentleman informed the
house that he did not intend to offer any Information on
the subject. He did not complain that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer had done anything wrong, but. he contended
that our whole system of finance had been unsound in
principle. The hon. member for Huntingdon added hiS
testimony to the nen-existence of a surplus, and the hon.
member for Horsham had requested some explanation with
regard to the £750,000 expected from China, and presented
the alternative either that that sum would not come into
the hands of the Government at all, or, if it did, that it
would be swallowed up in the indemnity to British mer-
chants. Now he was not quite sure that that cir-
cumstance was unsusceptiblo of explanation, but there
was no doubt that the merchants should, as soon
as possible, be paid their indemnity—(hear, hear)—the
President of the Board of Trade had volunteered some ex-
planation on the subject, and the lightness with which he
promised it could only be equalled by the adroitness with
which he evaded it; for, after some explanation on another
point, he said that on second thoughts he should leave
the matter to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which no
doubt was a very prudent course. (A. laugh.) He should re-
commend the right hon. gentleman to held in his hand
while giving his explanation the paper of figures of
£1,900,000 of Exchequer bonds, £1,500,000 added to the
debt, and the reduction of the balance's in the Exchequer;
and if at the conclusion of his address those figures remained
the same, he would ask hon. gentlemen to believe their eyes
and not their ears. (Hear.) He believed that any one
regulating his private affairs, or any mercantile establish-
ment its business, on the financial principles on which the
affairs of this country were conducted, would, in a very short
time, if the former, find himself in a prison, while the latter
would be in the Gazette. (Hear, hear.) A nation could
not go to prison or into the Gazette; but that was no rea-
son why they should not place their financial position on a
sound and secure basis, and ho must say that although every
one looked up to the high and brilliant qualities of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer with respect and admiration,
there were many who did not think him safe in matters of
finance. (Hear, hear.) They were told that this year the
resolutions were to be embodied in one bill, in order the
more easily to arrive at a settlement, but it appeared to him
to be a blow at the independence of the House of Lords. If
two friends fell out, and one took the other unknowingly
and gave him a knock-down blow, that he could not con-
sider a satisfactory settlement. (A laugh.) There were
some settlements which might be more precarious than any
contest, and more losing than any defeat. (Hear.) He
trusted that the House of Commons would resolve to resist
any motion which should make a victory of one of the
Houses of Parliament the means of destroying the indepen-
dence of the other. (Loud Conservative cheers.)
Mr. BRIGHT then said the house will not, I am sure,
be astonished if I say at the beginning of my speech that
I do not intend to follow the right hon. gentleman into all
the details of his somewhat discursive speech. (Hear, hear,
and Oh, oh.) I could not help thinking of the right hon.
gentleman, as I have had occasion to think of him before,
that he indulged in many remarks alarming to persons of
weak nerves and gives utterance to prognostications calcu-
lated to alarm us all. Did ho not also feel that it is his wont
occasionally to wander from the 'realms of fact, and in a
manner that I think hardly compatible with the usefulness
of debate, to the regions of imagination ? (Hear, hear.) It
is only two years since the right hon. gentleman alarmed
tho house by a most fearful statement with regard to the
chances of war breaking out. He spoke of the probability
of the occurrence of ono of the greatest calamities that
could occur, namely, a war between England and France,
and indulged in such forebodings that everybody must have
expected an immediate descent upon our shores, whereas
they were in point of fact followed by the conclusion of a
most important commercial treaty which itself was fol-
lowed almost immediately afterwards by a measure on the
part of the French Government which indicated
the greatest anxiety that the people of the two
countries should comprehend each other, and that
the interests of both—l mean the abolition of the passport
system as regarded English visitors to France. (Derisive
cheers and hear, hear). The right hon. gentleman also,
s. not thinking it sufficient to chill the souls of some of us
who were present, went further, and attempted to chill the
2 bodies of a not very remote posterity by telling us that our
2 coals were about speedily to be exhausted. (A laugh.) An
,12 hon. member, however, on this side of the house fortu-
nately was able to derhonstrate, so far as science could de-
-3 monstrate such a position, that if the country could endure
5
for the future as long as it has since the dove returned no
F, more to the ark, the supply of coals under this island will,
1 in all probability, not be exhausted. (Hear, hear.) Last
1 year again, the right hon. gentleman drew a picture of a
3 very fearful character. He wished to persuade this house
that they were not to be trusted with the regulation of the
1 finances of the country, and that it had been absolutely ne-
-21 emery for the House of Lords to do that which for 400
2 years they had never done, namely, to step in and correct
what they deemed an error in the calculation of the house
of Commons with regard to supplying the means for the
service of the year. He has now presented his Budget in a
very imperfect aspect, and ono in which' it ought not to be
regarded, and has introduced topics which he could
have wished would not have been imported into the
present discussion. He complains as if the Chancellor of
the Exchequer and the Government were about to do some-.
thing of a very fearful character in proposing that the reso-
lutions of this house should go to the other House of Par •
liament in one bill instead of in separate bills. Now, I ha 1
not because it may
come up again at a future litage prtNeWings, but I Will
go into any discussion on the subject

" worse
Than fable yet hath feigned or fear conceived,
Gorgons and hydras and chimeras dire,"
that presented it4clf to his imagination ? According to the
general tenor of the statement of the right hon. gentleman,
he should, I think, not complain that £70,000,000 was not
a sufficiently large expenditure, or indeed that £80,000,000
was not sufficient ; but he should, uncle; the state of affairs
which he describes, refuse to consider in any way the
remission of any tax whatever. (Hear, hear.) Let me ask
the house to go back to that memorable night, a fortnight
ago, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer fascinated the
house by his brilliancy. (Hear, hear.) I have sat opposite
to gentlemen on the other side of the House for more than
eighteen years, and I have not done so without taking
notice of their mode of thought, of their op;nions and of the
effect produced on them by statements which they may
hear. (Hear, hear.) I recognise their cheers when some-
thing occurs to gratify or surprise them. I will leave out
the gentlemen who sometimes expect to return back to
office, but I will take the main bulk of their followers.
As the Chancellor of the Exchequer proceeded with his
speech, the faces of those hon. gentlemen betrayed a species
of relief. They did not expect, although it had been hin-
ted aloud, that further taxation would not be required, that
so lane a surplus would be clearly made out (hear, hear),
and I apreal to the consciences of hon. gentlemen
opposite, when the right hon. gentleman came to the reduc-
tion of income-tax, to show whether they had not reached
a perfect state of enthusiasm. \Hear, bear.) When he
came to that portion of his scheme you, the country gentle-
men possessing incomes of from £5,000 to £20,000 a year,
displayed more satisfaction than would, I believed, have
been shown by an equal number of London clerks with
salaries of an average of £2OO. (Oh, oh.) I have no doubt
that it was on account ol your constituents (a laugh), and
I do not at all wish to give an improper interpretation to
your feelings ; but it was obvious that there existed great
excitement and pleasure on that side of the house. When
the right hon. gentleman came to the paper duties, there was
an expression, not quite the reverse of pleasure, which seemed
to pass through both sides of the house, as it was felt to be
desirable that a settlement should be arrived at. I ask
hon. members opposite whether they ever had a doubt of a
surplus ? Was it not their impression that the budget was a
successful one, and that the house might reasonably adopt
it. (Hear.) I do not include in these observations the right
hon. member for Bucks and his friends, because they only
saw the prospect of an opposition without anything to
oppose, and were, in fact, like the frozen-out gardeners who
had "no work to do." (A laugh, and " oh.") Just in the
nick of time, and by lucky accident, an independent mem-
ber on the other side—the bon. member for Huntingdon—
. ..

turns up to attack the surplus, Now, Ido not regard the
hear. member as an authority on those matters. (" Oh" from
Opposition.) For the 18 years I have been in the house I
have always found him to be wrong, and an authority
which is always in the wrong can be no authority. Moore's
almanack was sometimes right, but the hon. member never
was. (Oh.) I know that those who disagree with me will
not agree in these observations. The hon. member having
been so conspicuous in his failures was the last man to
attack the Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.) I
dare say on the other side there are 50 members, who as-
pire to be Chancellor of the Exchequer in case the right
hon. gentleman vacates his office. Now as to a surplus I
give him credit for it, and I here state that I shall always
believe in a surplus when a Chancellor of the Exchequer
declares one. (Hear, hear.) I shall have nothing to do with
those who are opposed to a surplus but refuse a remission of
taxation which a Chancellor of the Exchequer is willing to
make. (Hear, hear.) Assuming a surplus, I ask are the
proposed remissions fair to the various interests of the coun-
try ? (Hear, hear.) Last year the house granted an addi-
tional penny of income tax for the phrpose of having the
paper duty repealed. Now we are to get back that penny—
the paper duty is to be repealed—and what can be more un-
grateful or indefensible than to reject the proposal ? The
Chancellor of the Exchequer proposes that one-half of the
surplus shall go towards the repeal of certain indirect taxes,
and the other half to the repeal of certain direct taxes. I
want some hon. gentleman opposite to state on what ground
it is that his party bear their hostility to the repeal of the
paper duty. (Hear, hear.) There is nothing in the trade to
justify such hostility. Paper was a great article of manu-
facture—much used for books, and for the transmission of
news. If there be cheaper pal er—no stamp and a free press,
power will be given to the weak, and light will be given to
those who sit in darkness. (Oh, oh, and cheers.) When
I see you pursue your opposition almost to vindictiveness,
I have a right to suspect that there is something more in
your opposition to the repeal of the paper duty than there
is to your repeal of any other tax. (Hear.) In 1858 the right
hon. gentleman the member for Bucks did not simply allow
the resolution of the President of the Board of Trade for
1 the repeal of the duty to pass, but he stated that it would be
impolitic to maintain it as a permanent source of revenue.
(Hear.) One great journal of the metropolis did not
wish the paper duty repealed until other taxes were abo-
lished. If that be your project, you will make it a perma-
nent tax. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman also said
that many Customs duties were not worth collecting, and
that that must be considered in making remissions. Now,
these Customs duties are all swept away. I have, therefore,
a right to expect the vote of the right hon. gentleman on
this occasion. The right hon. gentleman went even fur-
ther, and said that he was not prepared to say that the tax
leasto n
ago.paper
riliwe
(Hear.)
ger°.
)nna
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dt
a:prnapetei
awolnht. which h. required,eoagr
,h) t
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a. ntowtasgentleman.th immediate,ree yN.
With
, years
attrhs
powers to occupy the throne in itvws.tare, the righthon
hon.
I gentleman had abdicated it for what he thought. more use-
ful sphere, and for a wider field in which to display his
genius. Was it worth while, for a party triumph, that
books, and tracts, and the all-knowing and all-teaching
newspaper, should be subjected to the burden of this tax.
(Hear.) The hon. member for Lincoln and others gave the
preference to the tea and sugar duties ever paper. (Hear)
When I recollect that the five best years of my life wore
spent in trying to get for the poor man's breakfast table—
in opposition to bon. gentlemen opposite—untaxed bread
and butter, I am slow to believe that their sympathy for
the poor man is greater than what I myself feel. (Hear.)
I can understand the anxiety of those who have large stocks
of tea and sugar in bond, to have some modification of those
duties. But I cannot understand how their sympathy for
the poor man's breakfast table is greater than mine. In the
present case, I think I shall be giving the greatest relief to
the working classes, in repealing the paper duties. (No, and
cheers.) It is obvious, that if you remit a million of the
tea and sugar duties, it may remain in the pockets of the
consumers, but it will do nothing in the opening up of any
new trade. (Hear.) Tho speeches of the hon. member for
Edinburgh, and of the hon. member for Dungarvan, were
conclusive as to the grievance of the tax and of the injury
—it might be ruin—which it would inflict on paper manu-
facturers, if allowed to remain another year. The right
hon. gentleman who spoke to-night assumed that the mil-
lion remitted by the paper duties would go to the manufac-
turers, but that a million remitted of tea and sugar duties
would relieve the poorest classes.
Mr. HORSMAN—I said it would go into the pockets of
paper dealers—namely, bookseller s, paper makers, and
cheap newspaper proprietors.
Mr. BRIGHT—I think the benefit in that case will be
as widely spread as the benefit from a reduction of the
sugar and tea duty. I find, between 1838 and 1856, the
number of paper mills sunk from 416 to 314 in this country,
and in Ireland from 60 to 28. In Scotland there was no
material change. True, the manufacture of paper has in-
creased, but it is one great evil of this excise duty that it
strangles all the thriving little men, gives the monopoly of
the trade to a few great manufacturers, and destroys that
free competition which would otherwise exist. (Hear, hear.)
I do not think the right hon. baronet the member for Hert-
ford likes to appear on the other side when the paper duty
is before ns. In 1855, the right hon. baronet objected to
the tax, and said that it placed an important manufacture
in the hands of a wealthy and irresponsible oligarchy.
(Hear.) I should not have spoken of the House of Lords if
the hon. member had not referred to it. I am sure that he is
the Lest friend of the House of Lords and to the Constitu•
tion, willo seeks to have this question speedily and without
irri tat:on settled. (Loud cheers) The right hon. member for
Horsham called this a political and not a financial Budget.
The right hon. gentleman said it was intended to conciliate
me. (Hear, hear.) When the right hon. gentleman was in
office I found him as anxious as any gne, consistently with
his duty, to conciliate me. (Cheers.) The right hon. gen-
tlemen talked of a noisy section—l will not say an influen-
tial or non-influential section—on this side to whose
clamour concessions were made. Ono thing I may say, we
never clamoured for office. (Cheers.) If we clamoured at
all it was for a public benefit. I admit that it is my Budget.
(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) I adopt it, and there-,
fore it is mine. (Hear, hear.) In a few days it will be the
Budget of this JAQWSe2 beeme it will In adopted by Its.