The Sun.
London, England, 1861-05-04 00:00:00

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committees of supply and ways and means shall be fixed for
Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and may also be ap-
pointed for any other dal- on which orders of the day shall
have precedence of notices of motions,' be read and re-
pealed, in lieu thereof to move, ' 1. That the committees of
supply and ways and means shall be fixed for Monday,
Wednesday, and Friday, and also may be appointed for any
other day on which the house shall meet for despatch of
business.' That the standing order of the 2d of August,
1860, ' That, unless the house shall otherwise direct, all
orders of the day set down in the order•book for Mondays,
Wednesdays, and Thursdays shall be disposed of before the
1 house will proceed upon any motions of which notices shall
have been given,' be read and repealed and in lieu thereof
to move, ' 2. That, unless the house shall otherwise direct,
all orders of the day set down in the order-book :for Mon-
days, Wednesdays, Thursday's, and Fridays shall be dis-
posed of before the house will proceed upo any motions of
which notices shall have been given, the right being reserved
ra
to her Majesty's Ministers of placing Government orders
at the head of the list on every order day except Wednes-
day.' 3. That the house at its rising on Friday do stand
adjourned until the following Monday, without any ques-
tion being put, unless the house shall otherwise resolve. 4.
That while the committee of supply and ways and means
are open, the first order of the day on Friday shall be either
supply or ways and means, and on that order being read,
the motion shall be made ' That Mr. Speaker do now leave
the chair.' 5. That when a public bill has been com-
mitted to a select committee, and reported to the house, the
bill, as amended, shall be appointed for consideration on a
future day; when, unless the house shall order the bill
generally, or specially in respect of any particular clause
or clauses thereof, to be recommitted to a committee of the
whole house, the bill, after the consideration of the report,
may be ordered to be read a third time. That the said re-
solutions be standing orders of this house."
Lord J. RUSSELL moved the first resolution.
Mr. BENTINCK complained that the house had not
been afforded sufficient time to consider these resolutions,
which, so far from being of the nature described by the
noble lord at the head of the Government, introduced very
important alterations, according to his opinion. He begged,
therefore, to move " That this house, having considered the
proceedings and the report of the Select Committee on Busi •
ness of the House, does not deem it expedient to sanction
the proposed alterations in the standing orders, and in the
practice of the house."
Mr. KNIGHTLEY second the amendment.
In reply to Mr. WILLIAMS,
Lord PALMERSTON said that in his proposal it was
not intended to interfere with the right of bringing in mo-

tions or asking questions on those nights fixed for going

; 7^- - -_-•
than it really deserves if I were to suppose that either Poland on another. 113 saw no reasonable objection to the vote,
cr Hungary had become discontented and disturbed in con- and he trusted the committee would agree to it.
sequence of its contents. With regard to Poland, every one Mr. S. ESTCOURT protested against taking this vote
in this country must feel great sympathy with a nation so on account.
distinguished in arms, with such a brilliant past history, and Lord PALMERSTON said the usual course had been
which has preserved its feelings of nationality to this day. agreed to, and there was no reason why the rule should be
We cannot help feeling that she deserves a batter fate, or re- departed from. All that was asked for was that the means
gretting the partition of which she was made the victim 80 of paying the necessary expenses should be supplied.
or 90 years ago. But I should be sorry to say anything Mr. S. FITZGERALD objected to noting money on etc •
which could induce the Poles to suppose that theirnationality count, without any opportunity of investigating the details
would be restored by any efforts of this country in their of those accounts. (Hear, hear.)
favour. If I were to write a despatch on that subject to the Colonel DUNNE objected to the Government asking for
Court of St. Petersburg, I entertain no doubt whatever as votes of supply that evening. Such a thing was totally
to the answer I should receive from that:Court. I should be unexpected. He protested against voting the money under
told that the Emperor of Russia had made most liberal con- the circumstances. The whole affair was totally unprece-
cessions to his Polish subjects, and that all he required was dented. The usual notice was not given, and an attempt
that tranquillity should prevail in that country. On the one was made to take the house by surprise. (Hear, hear.)
hand he would not withdraw those concessions, and on the Mr. CARDWELL contended that what his hon. friend
other he would not go beyond the line which he consideree (Mr. P. Peel) had done was quite in conformity with the
necessary to the maintenance of his authority over the coup- practice of the Treasury and the usage of Parliament.
try. There would be the despatch and there would be the Mr. HANKEY supported the view taken by his hon.
answer. But is any party in this country, prepared ; could friend (Mr. Cardwell).
any:Government be found to take up arms and to endeavour Lord PALMERSTON said the vote that was asked for
by force to restore the nationality of Poland ? If not, was one which was necessary, and of which particular no-
although she may possess our sympathies, it is not a case lice had been given.
in which diplomatic exertions can be effectual. What has Mr. F. PEEL, in answer to a question by Mr. Ayrton,
happened lately is no doubt very lamentable—(hear)—and said the vote of last year for civil contingencies amounted
I cannot, for my own part, understand why it was to £125,000—this year it amounted to £75,000.
that the people of Warsaw had not the notice to which they Mr. AYRTON considered that the present proceeding of
were entitled—that force would be used to disperse the the Government was unusual.
crowds in the streets. It was quite competent for the go- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
vernor of Warsaw, if those crowds were such as to disturb was right that all Governments should be kept down to
the public peace, to give public notice that those crowds certain rules. The present vote was announced when the
would not be permitted, and would if they assembled be house was full, as being one which would be taken on no-
dispersed by force, and although notice, three times repeated, count. Formerly balances were kept in hand to meet the
was actually given to the persons assembled before they demand for civil contingencies at this period of the year,
were driven away, it seems to me that a wise, humane, and but that was not the practice at the present time.
just governor would have given notice at least a day or two Mr. HENNESSY was determined to divide the come
previously that force would be used to scatter any assem- mittee on the question, because the civil service estimates
binge of a character likely to disturb the public peace. Ido were generally brought forward at such a period of the ses-
not feel justified in giving the reports for which I have sion that they could not be properly considered.
been asked. It is obvious that by their production one Mr. WHITESIDE hoped his hon. friend would allow
party or the other would be very much offended, and the the vote to pass, and not divide the commikee.
position of the person making them injured to a corres- After a short discussion, the amendment was negatived
ponding extent. Reports in themselves may be perfectly without a division, and the vote agreed to.
fair, but it would not be fair to endanger men in responsible The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the house
positions by publishing everything which they may report. resumed.
(Hear.) An hon. gentleman asked me a question with re-
gard to what has taken place at Naples. The accounts
which we have received aro of this general complexion—
tranquility prevails at Naples, but the provinces are very 1
much disturbed by the disbanded soldiers belonging to the
army of the late King of Naples. On almost every occa-
sion, at the end of a contest, when a large army is disban-
ded, men who have no profession but that of arms take to
marauding practices, especially when they can easily find
a safe refuge in the mountains. One may read in the writ-
ings of Lord Macaulay how, after the Peace at Ryswick,
when our troops were disbanded, the country was in a very
disturbed state, and the road to Newmarket, and even the
streets were not safe. And Naples itself is peculiarly cir-
cumstanced, for while the late King has been driven out of
Gaeta and every stronghold in his former kingdom of
Naples, he has been allowed to remain at Rome, and from
that city messages, arms, and money are despatched, and
conspiracies are set on foot. (Cheers.) These conspiracies
have been diseoverect, and it is said that the object of one
of them was to assasinate the leading Liberals in Naples.
Several persons have been arrested, and are to be brought to
trial for that offence. It is'extremely natural that the ex-
King of Naples should find a refuge at Rome, but it is
greatly to be regretted that there should exist in that capi-
tal a focus of conspiracy against the existing authorities
which tends to propagate disorder, and which leads to the
very worst results.
Mr. HENNESSY—WiII the noble lord lay on the table
the papers and despatches from Mr. Elliot ?
Lord J. RUSSELL—Mr. Elliot left Naples about six
months ago, and has been some time in this country; there-
fore there can be no despatches from him on the subject.
There is an attache of the mission to Turin, and likewise a
consul at Naples, from whom we receive accounts from
time to time; but there are no despatches that I can pro-
duce. If I understand the hon. gentleman, he wished to
ask for Mr. Elliot's despatches, and the commercial papers.
These were laid on the table this evening,
Mr. HENNESSY—I did not ask for the commercial
reports, but for any report which might have been received
with regard to the reactionary movement in Naples.
Lord J. RUSSELL—ExactIy. There are no despatches
relating to reactionary movements in Naples, except that
persons were conspiring and arrested. There have been
trifling riots from time to time, but they were of very small
account, and there have been no reactionary movements of
any consequence. My hon. friend the member for Bucking-
ham asked me a question with respect to Schleswig-Hol-
stein. I shall decline to go into that very complicated sub-
ject, but I can assure my hon. friend that her Majesty's
Government are engaged with several of the European
Powers in the endeavour to make propositions which will
be effectual in arranging the difficulty between Denmark
and the German States. It appears to me that the differ-
ences which have arisen are owing far more to the passions
excited by the very large pretensions put forward at both
sides than to any real difficulty regarding the merits of the
question. It is quite true, as my hon. friend behind me
has said, that the people of Holstein and Schleswig do not
wish to change their Sovereign, but questions of much
gravity have arisen with regard to constitutional usage
and to the political connexions of those States. I trust
that, by the communications in which we are now en-
gaged with the different European Powers, we may be
enabled to propose terms which will put an end to the
dispute ; for nothing could be more dangerous than the
contest arising between Germany and Denmark. (Hear,
hear.) Noboly could say how far it might spread. (Hear,
hear.) Standing, therefore, as we do, in an attitude totally
impartial, we trust that the representations of Her Majesty's
Government may be attended with good effect. The report
of Mr. Ward, to which allusion has been made, was written
five years ago, and as things have very much changed
since then, it would be calculated rather to mislead the
house wore we now to present it. In a few days, however,
I hope to lay on the table papers which will explain the
present position of the Holstein question, and what is now
passing with regard to it.
SPITHEAD FORTS.
Sir M. PETO moved for a copy of the report of the com-
missioners for national defences, and letters from Gen. Bur-
geyne and Sir W. Armstrong to the Secretary for War, re-
lative to the Spithead forts.
COMMON LAW COURTS (IRELAND).
Mr. WHITESIDE, in moving for returns of the amount
paid for salaries and allowances to the officers and clerks in
the three courts of common law in Ireland in the years
1822, 1826, and 1843 respectively, said the question was one
of great importance to the administration or justice in Ire-
land. The hon. gentleman complained of the way in which
salaries of legal officers in Ireland were increased, even by
the proposal to make alterations in certain of these offices.
Mr. CONOLLY seconded the motion.
Mr. CARDWELL did not object to the motion for the
returns, and agreed that the house should be most circum-
spect when it entered upon the question of legal reforms
and colapensations. By the course adopted by the Govern-
ment, he hoped that reasonable retrenchments would take
place in connection with the future appointments which
may be made to vacant offices in the Irish law courts.
Mr. BUTT regretted the absence of a system of judicial
statistics in Ireland similar to that which existed in Eng
Land.

THE CORK. INFIRMARY BILL.

On the order for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. LONGFIELD moved that it be read a second time
that day six months.

The hon. member was proceeding to state the grounds
upon which he moved that the bill be read a second time
that day six months, when an hon. member moved that the
house be counted, and there not being 40 members present,
the house was counted out at 10 minutes to 1 o'clock.

COUNTRY MABRETS.

LIVERPOOL-MAY 3.

There was a moderate attendance of town and country
buyers at this morning's market, and we had but a limited
business doing in both wheat and flour, at former rates.
Barley, beans, and peas were without change in value,
the latter very difficult to move. Oats and oatmeal were
steady, the former rather scarce. Indian corn neglected,
and the turn lower.

S. d.

The motion was then agreed to.
SUPPLY.
Mr. PEEL moved that the Speaker should leave the
chair, in order that they might go into committee of supply.
Mr. A. SMITH hoped the motion would not be pressed
at so late an hour. He objected to the principle of tiling
votes on account without due notice, and he had further to
remark that the particulars of the intended votes had not
been circulated among the members, although he believed
they could be procured in the course of the afternoon at the
vote-office. Under these circumstances ho could not con-
sent to the house going into committee.
Mr. PEEL said it was not possible that the hon. member
could be taken by surprise, for he (Mr. Peel) last night
gave notice of his intention to submit votes on account of
the miscellaneous estimates. He had given directions to
have the particulars of those votes circulated among mem-
bers, and he believed they had been sent eut in the course of
the day. The votes were not new votes. They had been re-
peatedly sanctioned by the house, and they were required
to carry on certain services. He trusted the hon. member
would not persevere in his opposition to the house going
into committee.
Mr. HENNESSY asked if one of the votes intended to
be taken on account that night included any portion of the
sum referred for the purposes of national education in the
United Kingdom ?
Mr. PEEL replied in the affirmative.
Mr. HENNESSY said, that being the case, he should
support his hen, friend the member for Truro in opposing
the Speaker leaving the chair. He intended to move the
reduction of the vote for national education by the sum of
no less than £50,000.
gested that those votes on account
Mr. P. O'BRIEN sug
which were not opposed should only be taken.
Mr. LONUFIELD opposed the motion.
The house then divided, and the numbers were—
For the motion 52
Against it
M ..
ajority
. .
The house then went into committee of supply, Sir Wsr
DUNBAR in the chair.
Mr. F. PE EL moved a vote of ..£5::0,000 on account of
the civil service, including £lOO,OOO for printing and sta-
tionery, £lO,OOO for County Court salaries, £lOO,OOO for the
Irish Constabulary, and £lOO,OOO for public education.
Mr. HENNESSY opposed the education vote, and urged
the hon. gentleman not to press it then, as the vote had
re-ally not been circulated among members.
Mr. A. SMITH moved that the vote be reduced by the
sum of £42,000 ; the reduction lea, ing .EBO,OOO on account
of the Census expenditure, which he admitted to be unob-
jectionable. The systeu of taking votes on account had
been so frequently condemned that he was surprised the
Government should persist in it.
Mr. F. PEEL reminded the house that a surplus on one
iload of the expeuditwe could 49t be applied tc? deficiency