The Sun.
London, England, 1857-12-04 00:00:00

India now? But the troops were sent five weeks too late,
and were sent in old ships which had been trading to India
15 Years ago. No assistance was given those ahipsi n pass-
ing the line, which might have been done by detaching
steamers to tow them through the calms. But what
Was the difference of four or five weeks? It was a differ-
ence of four or five weeks in the fall or the safety of Luck-
now. He said troops were not sent as they should have
been, and proper care was not taken in sending them; and
if Lucknow fell, for the loss of honour to this country, and
for 811 the horrors that would attend that fall, the Govern-
ment were responsible. (Hear.)
The Duke of ARGYLL said he believed the noble earl
bed spoken under some undue excitement, and had over-
rated the apprehensions which he himself attached at the
time to the events which took Owe before the mutiny at
,Meerut, during the months of January, February, and
'Larch, concluded as they were by the disbandment and
pdismissal of two native regiments in the presence of a large
'ores of other native regiments, by Lord Canning. Ho (the
noble duke) did not wish to conceal the fact that those
events prior to the mutiny at Meerut did not raise in the
Minds of the Government of India or of the Government at
home, feelings which, if they could have been viewed by the
•light of subsequent events, they would undoubtedly have
Produced. The first occasion on which the noble earl di-
rected the attention of the house to the events passing in
India—and he (the Duke of Argyll) meant those prelimi-
nary events to which he had just referred—was on May 19.
Their lordships all know the deep interest which his noble
friend took in the affairs of India, and the facility with
which he entered into questions relating to that empire.
At the time mentioned, he simply asked a question as to
What were the steps which Government proposed to take,
And he made no comments whatever as to theforce in India.
The answer given by Government was, that they felt no
alarm for the safety of that empire, but at the same time
they proposed to send out additional troops—to the extent
of four regiments. He was now quite astonished to hear
that a pledge was given to send them out instanter.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH aui the Earl of DERBY
Five weeks were mentioned.
The Duke of ARGYLL said he found by a note made
that Lord Panmura remarked that if the troops left England
earlier than the second week in Jane, they would arrive in
India in an unhealthy sewage, and the events which had
occurred there did not create the idea that they were re-
'lnired instantly. The telegraphicaccounts arrived on the
9th June, and they stated simply that a mutinous spirit
was apparent, especially in the id Regiment of Cavalry at
Delhi. He would now mention that the Government had
no desire to throw upon the Court of Directors any part of
the responsibility which justly lay upon them—(hear)—
but the attack made upon the Court of Directors had had
tht. beneficial effect, it produced as coming from them a
r and accurate statement as to the reinforcements of the
4nnY sent to India. There could be no doubt that rein-
forcements were Rent out in the ordinary class of ships
taken up before the accounts arrived—that was to say,
Inch ships as were used for that papas° when reinforce-
'tient, were made to the army in India. That fact he
Would admit on the part of the Government and the Court
of Directors; but he believed it would be found that im-
inediately disastrous news arrived of the mutiny at Meerut
and the capture of Delhi, the Court of Directors gave ins-
Mediate orders for a• tender of a large class of vessels and
screw [steamers. Those tenders were published after the
Brat meeting of the court after the news reached this coun-
try. But this was a subject into which they ought not to
have been called to enter to-night. He firmly believed it
would be found that no undue delay took place after the
news arrived. He was surprised to bear the noble earl now
blaine the Government for not using screw steamers.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said his remarks were,
ihet they might have used steamers in passing the line, and
in assisting the sailing shipsthrough the calms.
The Duke of ARGYLL said it should be remembered.
that the steamers had to coal at certain points, and suffi-
cient coal was not ready. He should be very much sur-
Paeldsed if some of the sailing vessels taken up under some of
14.6 recent traders, and which sailed in company with the
steamers, had not made as good a passage as the screw
steamer', and he thought this fact would be borne out by
a
`eaerence to the accounts brought by the last mail.
The Earl of HARDWICKE said their lordships on that
lede of the house simply stated to the Government on cer-
Lain occasions facts which they did not appreciate as to the
uummencement of the perils through which India had gone,
endthe emergency of the case upon which they ought ear-
lier tohave decided. His noble friend had referred to the
steamers employed on the coast of Africa being employed
au towing the sailing vessels across the line, lent the Govern-
ment did not think it would have been of any advantage.
Me thought the advantages which occurred had not been
/used by the Government. He used to be struck by the
Manner in which the navy was dealt with by the Govern-
Ment in times of emergency. In cases of this sort—as to
the rapid transit of troops—the navy might have been
brought into play with great effect. To mention a case,
the 91th Regiment had remained at Plymouth since the
and of October, long after that regiment was ordered to
India. The Government took up a Dutch ship, which put
to Seta and soon put back again, and the contract which
Ines entered into was never performed. Now, at the time
at which this Dutch ship was engaged there was lying at
Plymouth the St. Jean d'Acre, quite ready to go to sea.
Me was astonished that the resources which the Govern-
tient had in their own hands were not used for the service
of the country. (Hear.) He (the Earl of Hardwicke)
early in the summer suggested the use of the overland
journey to India, but he was immediately met with objec-
tions. It had, however, Einco been found out that it was
Practicable to transport troops through France and Egypt
to India; but if it had been done in June, the Govern-
Ment would have had 5,000 men in India at the end of
tngost. He should advise the Government to use steamers
in future, as sailing vessels bad no chance with them. Of
17 vessels and steamers which had lately left England for
India, it had been found that the average time taken by
the former to Calcutta was 103 days, and that of the latter
8l days 15 hours.
-uhe Duke of ARGYLL—When was the comparison
suede?
„ The Earl of HARDWICKE, after giving the names of
the vessels, said that would be apparent. The time taken
if going to Madras was .101 days and 93 days respece
eleita and to Point de Gale 85 days 12 hours, and 80 days
'_'•° /lours respectively, so that steamers beat the sailing
vessela in every instance.
the sailing
Duke of ARGYLL wished to point out that, as to
.0 .vessels, the average given was from a list of
-"elPs which included some of the slowest in the service.
The Earl of HARDWICKE—It appeared, then, that
the Government took up some of the worst ships they
could find, and at a time, too, when they possessed the
airiest fleet in the world. The noble duke admitted that the
Government took up ships that were very bad, and for this
there could be no excuse. It was high time that the navy
should be made more generally useful than it had been, for
hitherto it had been considered too much as adapted solely
as a machine of war, whereas it might often be rendered
useful in the furtherance of peaceful designs. The country
Was compelled to keep up the navy in some force, and at
considerable expense, and was entitled to the utmost ser-
vice that could be given in return. (Hear, hear.)
Earl GREY said he had no peculiar admiration for the
Act of 1844, but he thought it too much of a half-measure;
the principle upon which it was fonaded was a sound one,
though not efficiently carried out ; but, whether the act
Was wise or unwise, they had the fact of its having twice
Proved a failure in the space of 10 years, and the Govern.
went had been compelled to take upon themselves to super-
"'le its provisions. After that, he thought the Act of 1844
Veld not remain with advantage upon the statute book.
*), could understand the Government bringing in a bill of
indemnity if they were prepared to follow it up by alter-
ti•lg the act ; but to propose a bill of indemnity a second
fug within so shdrt a period ae 10 years, without follow-
ig it up with a proposal to amend the act, was to take
a
course which seemed perversely erroneous. Some
fersons seemed to believe that the necessity for departing
gore the act in 1847 arose from the mismanagement of the
h ack• It might at that time be reasonable that it should
two
as trial. It must be obvious, however, that when
re Governments have been compelled to resort to such a
tialarre as that under consideration, the moral-power of
eeaulclt that
at an end. (Hear.) The mercanaile clans
pressure arose the
believe in it, and in future whenever a
the Government would be expected to inter-
ir e and henceforth the necessity would be increased. But
the"si act was not to be maintained, then he would say let
the manner in which, and the conditions upon which, it was
be departed from be laid down by Parliament. (Hear.)
acat ought the present arrangement amounted to a distinct
die. If the measure of value was to be tampered with by a
naoretionary act on the part of any one, let it be known by
twk te that authority was to be executed. At present the
veoBP°lasibility was divided between the Bank and the Go-
Otp;trient. That was an arrangement whieh he thought
alt_t not to continue, and an entire alteration ought to be
tio" His complaint was that the aet placed us in a posi-
'which _
ra of 41 others most likely to bring ns into a state in
not
a oeparture from the standard might be necessa he
_n fear that such a departure would b 3 made of salice
InNe."4e, as it were, butthe duration of the existing system
tairt be endangered from a state of things no longer main-
able, bab_le, and for which Government and Parliament would
" Prepared. He wished to see the system of the cur-
-1 reformed on a sound principle. In his opinion it was
87 outer of the state to afford mosey for the use of the Slate.
ref h chad been the custom in Europe, where every Sove-
gn kept the right of coining iu his own hand; but gold
Muthlver were less likely to be abused than paper money.
respect to the issue of paper money, ersons were
lowed to issue this kind of currency at (their discre-
te, n, they knew from experience what the result would
Pe The proper policy he thought was that the issue of
aper money should be distinctly taken up by the State,
_ that paper money being so issued should be thrown
'Ten to free and nnrestrieted competition that would
give us considerable relief at the present time, and he was
Sorry. to hear that nothing of the kind was to be done.
Whether this or any other course were taken, he re-
peated that the moral power of the Act of 1844 was gone.
Re dal not think legislation would he proceeded with till
after the Parliamentary inquiry. That this question should
again go before a Parliamentary committee was a worse
course than at once dealing directly with the question. He
thought inquiry would be attended with great advantage
upon another subject—he meant the causes of the present
commercial distress, because it appeared to him a great
`fallacy to attribute the late disasters to our circulating
medium. He was convinced that a system of commerce
had gradually got established in this country, as well as iu
other countries, which acted with great evil, and he was
desirous of doing something to check it. Ho therefore
desired an inquiry into the system of currency, and par-
ticularly into the events which had produced the present
crisis. He came from a part of the country, which, unfor-
tunately, would suffer deeply • and he thought they, as
well as the commercial world, bad a right to have these
thing, inquired into. He thought that a committee of their
lordahipa would carry on an inquiry even more efficiently
then a committee of the other house. In the first place,
committee of that house they would have the invalu-
able assistance of his noble friend near him (Lord Over-
Stone) ; they would also have the assistance of several of
their lordships, whose services would be of the utmost
value ; but, above all, a committee of that house would
not be fettered and frightened by those influences which
operated on the members of the other house ; and hence.
h 0 believed they would be likely to probe the matter more
deeply than it would ho probed elsewhere.
Lord OVERSTONE agreed with his noble friend in
thinking that the Bank Act deserved the most careful con-
sideration. He also agreed with his noble friend in the
Principle that everything connected with the issue of money
Should be effectually and distinctly separated from every
thine connected with the dealing in money. The act of
1811 stopped short of declaring that the money of the
,country should belong to and be regulated by the State ;
but is practice, under that act, the mana;ement of the
money of the country in its issue was entirely separated
from the business of banking and the dealing in money.
Prejudices i
t in the public mind and errors in minds of great
la_ elligence were not yet eradicated, and ne debate ever toak
i 1 ace in which those errors did not appear. He was at one
time) unwilling to sanction a more complete separation be-