The Sun.
London, England, 1857-06-27 00:00:00

FRAUDULENT TRUSTEES, &c., BILL.

The houso went into committee on this bill.

On clause 1,
Mr. BOLT moved to leave out "property" and insert
" estate or interest in land of any tenure, or of any share
or interest in any public stock or fund, whether of this
kingdom, or of Great Britain or of Ireland, or of any
foreign State, or in any stock or fund of any body cor-
porate, company, or society, or of any security for money
whatsoever, or of any chattel." His object in moving this
amendment was, that as the clause stood persons of cha-
racter and respectahility would be prevented from taking
the responsibility of trusteeship. The question of intent
to defraud was surrou❑ded with difficulties, and in many
cases under this bill that charge might be established,
when there really was no intention whatever to defraud,
and although people under such circumstances might
not be convicted, the very fact of a man being liable to
be charged with such an offence would make people he-
sitate before they accepted the responsible office of trustee.
In point of fortis Lie would limit his amendment to the
term " property."

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL concurred in the ge-
neral tendency of the learned gentleman's observations,
but with the principle of the amendment he could not
agree. If they were to adopt the hon. and learned gentle-
man's amendment, the grossest and most cruel cases of
fraud that could be conceived would pass untouched. He
did not wish by anything in his bid to frighten the most
nervous man, and there would be nothing in it which
would at all touch any one who did not wilfully and
knowingly defraud those whom ho was bound beyond
everything else to protect.

Mr. HE ADLAM said that after the most careful con-
sideration he had come to a conclusion very different
from the opinicn which was entertained out of doors.
His impression was that the &ease would be productive
of infinitely more mischief than the state of things it was
designed to cure. His belief was that the effect of the
bill would be to throw a vague idoa of difficulty and dan-
ger over all who undertook the duties of trustee.
Sergeant KINGLAKE was very anxious that there
should he a law brought to bear upon every fraudulent
trustee, but they should take care that they did not in-
clude within the language of their legislation an innocent
and honest trustee. It would be very difficult, he con-
tended, for any one to define what was a fraudulent in-
tention. He did not think that the words " intent
to defraud" were a sufficient restriction upon the clause.
He would suggest that fraud should be made apparent
in a court of law, and that in that case the judge shou'd
have the power f ordering an indictment.
Mr. BARROW was satiNfied that the bill in its pre-
sent shape would be most injurious to the widows and
orphans fur whose benefit the Attorney-General pro-
posed to legislate.

Mr. NAPIER thought that the observations ho had
heard that night from both sides of the house would
have been more appropriately advanced in the second
reading of the bill. With regard to the principle of the
bill he fully agreed with it, and he thought that a jury
would be fully competent to put a right construction
upon the words " with intent to defraud."
Mr. AYRTON thought some words might be intro-
duced into the clause which would provide that a man
should not be convicted upon what a court of equity
would call fraud, but what a jury, upon a consideration
of the whole of the circumstances, would consider to be
fraud.

Mr. WIGRAM thought this was a very wholesome
enactment, because he thought that society wanted to
be awakened on the subject of fraudulent misappro-
priation of trust property.
Mr. DOLT replied, contending that these offences
should be taken out of the ctiaracter and class to
which they belonged, in order t 3 put them into a cha-
racter and class to which they did not belong.
Mr. WALPOLE said the clause as it now stood
would embrace not only the trustee of an actual trust,
but a trustee of a constructive or implied trust.
Mr. NEATE objected to the clause as an extens'on
of the criminal law, which was opposed by the judges
and the majority of the legal profession. He thought
a dibtit.ction ought to be made between public and
private trusteeship.
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 2,

Mr. HENLEY wished to know what constituted a
fraud in the case of a banker. A man paid 1,000/. into
a bank, and it was used by the banker ; but suppose the
bank broke, would that constitute a fraud under this bill?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that money paid
into a bank was in the nature of a loan, and the banker
could use it to his own purposes.
Mr. HENLEY wished to know what eireuinstanees
could bring a banker within the operation of the tail
Tee ATTORNEY•GENERAL said if he took a bag
with a thousand pounds in it, sealed up, to a banker, and
told him to take ctra of it, and the hanker cut open the
bag, end took out the money, thtt would bring him
within this act.

Mr. HENLEY said that was an offence now. 14 be.
Eeved that, underthe words of this clause, paying money
over the counter into a bank would cline within the ope-
tion of the bill.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL said the clause would
not interfere with the ordinary business of a banker. It
would only apply to ca,,ea where there was malus animus.
Mr. AYRTON said that under the existing statutes
the cases put by the Attorney-General were provided
against. Under this clause, as it was weried, any banker
might be brought up at a police-court, when any dispute
arose-.

Ir. NAPIER. said that in the ease of a deposit with a
banker, the parties wood in the relation of debtor and
creditor.

Tae ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that was the car-
reetinterpreatii,n.

Mr. HENLEY;:tiII th•night that the clause would ap-
play to paying money into a bank.

- Mr. 'NAPIER. san the moment money was paid into
a bank on depsit, it became the property of the banker,
who gate an accountable rec3ipt for it.
Mr. MALINS said the money was lent to the banker.
It was siini_l; a loan.

Mr. CAIRNS said the inter6retation clause included
dTht under the meaning of the word property, and under
this clause the effect, of a banker failing would be to sof:-
j:ct h m to an indictment by every ono of his cu,torners.
Mr. GURNEY aekel if a b ll deposited with a banker
were discounted by that banker, and the banker failed
before the bi 1 arrived at maturity, would that come
within the operation of the bill ?
The AT FORNEY GENERAL said such a case would
come within the operation of the measure it the bill
were disc ,unt,•d with intent to defraud.
Mr. WALPOLE inquired whether the case of a bank•
rupt who knows that he is insolvent and receives money
on deposit would come under the operation of this bill.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that such a case
would not come within the operation of this bill.
Ile clause was agreed to, and the house resumed.
SITES FOR WORKHOUSES BILL.
This bill passed through committee.-
COUNTY SESSION (SCOTLAND) BILL.

This bill was read a second time.
BANKRUPTCY AND REAL SECURITIES
(SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
BILL CHAMBER (SCOTLAND)
This bill was read a second time.
CHRISTCHURCH (WEST HARTLEPOOL) BILL.
This bid was read a second time.
HANLEY BOROUGH CORPORATION BILL.
This bill was read a third time and puled.
ELECTION PETITION BILL

On the motion for the second reading of this hal,
The A.TIORNEY-GENERAL e^id be could not
agree to any of the clauses of this bill.
Mr. ADDERLEY said tbat the bill was intended to
cope with the wholesale system which was now practised
by low attorneys of presenting petitions to that house,
imputing the grossest and broadest corruptions to hon.
Lumbers of that house. The bill had been prepared
under the authority of Lord Eversley, and yet with such
a scandalous system as this bill was intended to meet, the
Attorney-General announced his opposition to it. The
real opponent to the bill was Mr. Coppock. The abuse
which the bill was intended to meet, that of sham peti-
tions, was a scandal to the house. If there could be a bet-
ter time for considering the subject let its discussion be
postponed until that time, but he did not believe that the
house could have a better time for considering it than
when smarting under the effects of thie existing system.
The principle of the b:11 was to endeavour to gua-
rantee the bona fides of election petitions, and if
that was not the proper time far bringing it forward,
perhaps the learned Attorney-General would instruct
him better upon the subject.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL ridiculed the " silly
machinery" of the bill, -which he said would only become
a laughing stock to the parties against whom it was in-
tended to take effect. He thought the best thing he
could do was to move the adjournment of the debate.
Mr. SPOONER animadverted upon the term " silly
machinery" being applied to a measure coming from so
distinguished a source.

After a few words from Sir G. GRa"! the motion was
withdrawn, and the house adjourned at a quarter past 1.

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