The Sun.
London, England, 1861-07-09 00:00:00

EDUCATION.

The NOBLE LORD then proceeded to ask the President
of the Council whether the Government intended to pro-
pose any measure in Parliament, or to issue any minutes
of the Committee of Privy Council on Education, in pur-
suance of the report of the Education Commissioners. His
lordship then proceeded to say that the object which he had
in view was to ascertain if her Majesty's Government
in-
tended, on the recommendation of the Commissioners on
Education, to make any alteration in the mode by which
the Committee of Council made grants towards the main-
tenance of schools ? Their report was, no doubt, a reason-
able one, but still there were portions of it to which he ob-
jected, and he doubted if any of her Majesty's Government
h'ad read through the five volumes in which it was con-
tained. The recommendations of the commissioners were
of a twofold character. One class of recommendations
could not be carried out without the interference of Parlia-
ment, but the Committee of Council might by its minute
put any of the other class into immediate action. He en-
tirely approved of all the commissioners stated in reference
to evening schools, educational endowments, pauper schools,
and State schools, but he did object to the proposal that
these schools were to be supported by a county or a borough
rate. One important matter they had now to decide was,
whether, in regard to pauper schools, Boards of Guardians
should be required to send the paupers to schools apart from
the workhouse, instead of prohibiting them, as was the
spirit of the old law. According to Denison's Act, a law
passed under the direction of the present Speaker of the
House of Commons, the Boards of Guardians could give
pauper children :education along with relief; but as the
matter was left optional with them, the enactment had be-
come a complete dead letter. He found, on examination,
that some of the recommendations with respect to the rate
at which the teachers were to be paid for each child
educated in a school under the proposed system of a
county or borough rate were most contradictory. His
great objection, however, to the proposed 83 stem of rating
was, that it held out great benefits on very low conditions,
and he could not regard that as good policy. The recom-
mendation that the education to be afforded the public
schools under the management of the Committee of Council
should consist only of reading, writing, and arithmetic,
would, if adopted, be equivalent to discarding all certifi-
cated masters and mistresses, and pupil teachers. It was
also proposed that the certificates should have no pecuni-
ary, but only a honorary value. By the first recommenda-
tion the school managers would be left to make their own
terms with the teachers ; and the second recommendation,
if carried out, in reference to those who are now actually
teachers, would amount to a serious breach of public faith.
lie wished to know, in the event of that recommeulation
being carried out, if it were to be purely protective or not?
He agreed with Mr. Chadw;ck that there should be some
alteration in the school hours, to give time for the physical
training of the children. Although the commissioners, in
their report, took into consideration the state of those
schools established under the Factories Act, he regretted to
find that they had not considered the education of those
children engaged in the unregulated trades, with respect to
whom, Mr. Senior stated that the slaves in South Carolina
were less tortured and better fed. They were brought as
young as two years old to assist in the manufacture of hard-
ware and lace.

Earl GRANVILLE, in reply, said he would leave to
his noble friend the Secretary fey the Colonies (the Duke
of Newcastle), whe had been one of the commissioners to
defend the recommendations of the report itself, while he
would confine himself to the task of answering the noble
lord's questions. With respect to the intention of her Ma-
jesty's Government to base any measure upon those recom-
mendations which required the action of Parliament, he
had to state that they had not as yet so thoroughly con-
sidered those recommendations as to feel justified in pro-
posing any alteration in the existing law; but with re-
spect to those recommendations which depended for their
adoption upon the action of the Committee of Council ho
would very soon, he hoped, be able to lay upon their lot d-
ships' table a minute which would remedy some of the diffi-
culties which were found in the administration of the pre-
sent system, and also meet a great and crying evil by

extending Government assistance to those schools in poor
districts which could not come up to the present require-
ments of the committee council, although he did not pro•
pose that it should be at once carried into effect.
Lord BROUGHAM expressed himself highly pleased
with the ability displayed by the Commissioners in their re-
port, and also with the course which her Majesty's Govern-
ment was about to pursue in the matter. He had for a long
time past been in favour of having the schools maintained
by a parish rate, and had introduced into Parliament two
bills based upon his views. He agreed with Mr. Chadwick
that the school hours should be subdivided, and one part of
them set aside for physical exercise, such as military drill.
Forty
years ago he had stated that the schoolmaster was
abroad, and last year he added to that another diction to
the effect that the workmaster was abroad also, and often
greatly interfered with the free action of the schoolmaster.
The short time system, however, counteracted a large por-
tion of the evil. He regretted that the Commissioners
entirely overlooked the question of middleer-asrs
class
presentededucationeo
asl
—a question upon which he had last y
many as 120 petitions, signed by 40,000 on
wish to see extended to those schools the privilege ofw ud
Go-
vernment inspection. The children of the class immediately
below them had the benefit of 5,000 trained masters and
mistresses, and of 16,000 pupil teachers.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said it was most gratifying
to him to hear the observations which had been made in re-
ference to the report both by the noble and learned lord,
and also by his noble friend who had introduced this sub-
ject to their lordships' consideration ; and he would now
proceed to reply briefly to their objections. The noble and
learned lord complained that the subject of middle-class
education had been omitted from the report of the commis-
sion, but that did not arise from any want of appreciation
in their eyes of its importance, but simply because it had
not been included within the scope of their inquiry. With
respect to the other omissions complained of, namely that
they had made no recommendations with respect to the edu-
cation of children engaged in the unregulated trades, they
did not feel that they were the proper persons to call for the
extension of the Factories Act, especially as the master
tradesmen in the lace trade were themselves asking for it. '
With regard to those schools which were dependent upon
charitable funds, they found that those funds were, for the
most part, grossly misapplied. It was perfectly true, as
stated bythe noble lord, that Denison's Act, enabling boards
of guardians to remove pauper children from the contamina-
tion of the workhouses had become a dead letter, because of
the option which it gave them, and it was desirable that the
spit's- of that enactment should be carried further. The
commisners never contemplated abrogating the system of

examining irns the religious training of the children in the
Church of Englan& Schools, which would continue pre-
6'6Y as before, but they -”ould limit the duties of the Go-
vernment inspectors of schools t.:.
ascertaining the ex,ent
of their secular knowledge leaving it ',..3' the diocesan in-
spector the duty of inquiring into the religion. training.
It was not intended ot that the certificate of the teacher.
should
have not value, but it was proposed to
place the to
and leave them to
the hands of the school managers,
otooirnake their own bargain with the
teachers. The cry of the schools was the first
subject which the
thatro afterrniesi mere had in view, and
they were of opinion
the proper test of the ability all
the certificate was not I
of a teacher. Mr. Cook, one
of the Government inspectors
best
that he, in his district,
found that those who were thetloteachers had either no
certificate at all, or, at most,
powttnones. In proposing
t objects in view;
the county rate they had three irn
osecondly, to rst, to simplify the business of the office
ob-
viate the possibility of the House of Commons,
cold fits, cutting down the educational ln
one
of its
which would have the effect of breaking up estimatethe whole
half,
sys-
tem of education; and the thins and chief object°lWea
bring into the general system all the public schools
present unassisted, and also the private schools, The

assisted schools were 6,897, having an attendance of
917,555 children, whereas there were 15,952 unassisted
public schools, attended by 654,233 pupils, and in all there
were 1,800,000 children in schools which derived no assis-
tance whatever from Government. In the diocese of
Oxford, containing 339 parishes, there were only 24 assisted
schools; in Hereford, having 130 parishes, there were only
5 such schools ; and in Somersetshire, which contained 280
parishes, there was only one school which received aid
from Government. He generally defended the justice and
policy of a county rate for educational purposes, and read
lengthened extracts from the report of the commissioners
to rebut the charge made in another place to the effect that
they had disregarded the importance of a sound religious
training.

After a few words from the Bishop of BATE and WELLS
in reference to the inspection of schools, the subject dropped.

THE DUKE OF MODENA.

The Marquis of NORMANDY postponed to Friday
week his motion with respect to the vindication of the
Duke of Modena.

BOUNDARIES BILL.

This bill was read a second time.
VOLUNTEERS EXEMPTION FROM TOLL BILL.
On the motion of Lord LLANOVER this bill was read a
second time.

ANNOYANCE JURY (WESTMINSTER) BILL.
Lord LLANOVER moved the second'reading of this
bill.
Earl POWIS wished to see the administration of the
penal portion of this bill left in tho hands of the police
magistrates.
Lou' LLANOVER said the bill was approved of by the
Dean of Westminster and the Duke of Buccleuch, who was
lord of the manor. He would, however, when the bill was
committed, be prepared with amendments to meet the ob-
jections of the noble lord.
The bill was then read a second time, and their lordships
adjourned at 20 minutes past 8 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAXER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords' amendments to the Greetwell District Drain-
age Bill and Manchester and Milford Railway (Aberystwith
anch) Bill were considered and agreed to.

The -amendments of the Lords to the Grand Junction
Water Bill were also agreed to.

The Tylde Water Bill was read a third time and passed.
The Blackburn Water Bill and the Devon Railway Bill
were considered and ordered for third reading. The
Atkinson's Trust Estate Bill (Lords) was read a second
time.