The Sun.
London, England, 1861-07-27 00:00:00

BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY BILL.

Upon the order for the consideration of the Commons'
reasons for disagreeing to certain amendments made by tho

Lords,
The LORD CHANCELLOR rose to recommend to their
lordships that they should agree with the decision of the
I Commons. Their lordships had inserted in the bill amend-
ments for which he had no doubt sound reasons could be
given, but the House of Commons had disagreed with all
those amendments, with. one or two unimportant exceptions,
and he now trusted, seeing that the bill in the shape it bad
been sent up had met with the unanimous approval of the
other house, that their lordships would consent to pass it
in that shape. Provisions which had met with the sanction
of the Conseivative party in the House of Commons had
met, why he knew not, with the condemnation of the Con-
servative party in their lordships' house, and when the bill
had gone back to the other house with their lordships' amend-
ments the House of Commons had determined rather to risk
the loss of the measure altogether than accept the amend-
ments. The measure had been spoken of as one of urgent
necessity, and as such it had been regarded by the House of
Commons. And let it be remembered that it was no idea of
his—the bill had been introduced as a necessary alteration
of the law by the late Government, and they it was who de-
served all the credit of the proposition. the language which
had been uniformly used heretofore in reference to the ap-
pointment of a supreme judge, was that it would be advan-
tageous, but now it was sought to'postpone the decision tili
next session. He had in the first instance come to the con-
clusion that there should be a head to this tribunal, but he
disclaimed being influenced in this opinion by anythink but
a desire for the due administration of the law. This part of
the bill had been objected to on the ground that it was an
unnecessary expense. The administration of the law of
bankruptcy and insolvency was carried on by a number of
commissioners. The five commissioners of bankruptcy
received an income of £lO,OOO a year, and there were,
independent of these commissioners, commissioners
of insolvent debtors, whose offices would be
abolished by this bill ; and there were eight official assignees
in London, of whom threewere proposed to be at once abo-
lished, and machinery was provided to do away in course of
time with the whole number. Therefore the saving by the
bill of official salaries would be £12,000 or £13,000, and the
whole additional charge that would be thrown by it upon
the consolidated funl would be £5,000. From a very early
period of time the complaint in connexion with bankruptcy
was against the mode of administering justice, and not
against the rules of administration themselves. The rules
were simple, but the mode of administering justice had al-
ways been found difficult, and had met with much reproach
and a great deal of complaint. The difficulty arose from the
administrative and judicial duties having been conferred
upon the same individual. There had been no separation of
the duties, and the result had been that the judicial func-
tions had been performed in an unsatisfactory manner, and
the administrative functions had been performed with a less
amount of prudence than ordinary commercial intelligence,
if applied to the subject, would have secured. In the earliest
times in the history of the bankruptcy law, the administra-
tion of justice was carried on by 70 commissioners,w,ho were
the Lord Chancellor's secretaries. A great and cumbrous
court was the consequence, which was limited to a species
of appellate jurisdiction and the power of administering jus-
tice in the first instance, and performing the ordinary duties
of administration were denied to it, and in a short time it
died of inanition. Afterwards commissioners were ap-
pointed throughout the country, but they had no control-
ling head—no superintending power ; each pronounced his
own orders, had his own rule of administration, and held
within himself the administrative and judicial functions.
This was one of the first evils which it was desirable to
remedy, and therefore it had been proposed that the ap-
pointment of this judge should be made. And he begged
their lordships to observe that the duties of the judge
would be of a threefold character ; he would have
the superintendence of the whole of the administra-
tive part of the business, and he would exercise a jurisdic-
tion partly original and partly judicial. A great portion of
the business of the judges was now accomplished in cham-
bers. It might well be imagined that throughout the coun-
try many questions might arise which would not bo satis•
factorily settled by commissioners, and could not be finally
decided without the aid of a chief judge. The jurisdiction
in bankruptcy was only a jurisdiction amongst the creditors
themselves. The judge had no power of acting against a
stranger, of trying a question before a jury, or of deciding
questions of equity ; and many points arose which he was
obliged to send to be decided by courts of law and equity ; so
that suitors in bankruptcy were compelled to have recourse
to other tribunals. This evil he (the Lord Chancellor) had
endeavoured to remedy. The court had been made self-
sufficient, and had been armed with adequate powers. But
this could not be obtained without putting at the head of
one court a judge of dignity, experience, and education. In
this country they laboured under the evil of numerous juris-
dictions, many of the operations of which were antagonistic
to others. These evils existed to a certain extent also in
bankruptcy, and he (the Lord Chancellor) could not hope
to remedy them without the appointment of a chief judge.
Then as to the appellate jurisdiction. Scattered over the
country were a number of small tribunals entrusted with
powers of administering justice. How necessary was it for
these courts to have a central head, which should regulate,
control, and give order to the rest. He had been told that
in the committee the only function of the cbieljudge which
was considered was his appellate jurisdiction. But he (the
Lord Chancellor) was not afraid of putting the importance
and necessity of the chief judge's office on this single issue:
The bill for the first time threw down the wall of partition
between the law of insolvency as applied to traders and
non-traders. Now, both Houses of Parliament had de‘ i-
ded that this distinction should no longer exist. The prac-
tical result of an unequal administration of justice had
been to drive the Queen's subjects out of her courts and
induce them to have recourse to other modes of obtaining
those advantages which they could not derive from the
courts. Tho number of private arrangements had averaged
10,000 or 11,000 a year, and had outnumbered ten times the
regalar commissions in bankruptcy. But private arrange-
ments were very injurious things. Under a trust deed re-
course must be had to the Court of Chancery, where the ex-
pense was heavy, though no doubt less than it had been
years ego. The bill aec')rdingly empowered persona to go

with these trust deeds before the Court of Banktuptcy,
armed with the same powers, and entitled to the same ad
vantages, as might formerly be obtained from the Court of
Chancery. The probable result of this would be that they
would have, instead of a deserted court, a jurisdiction
crammed with business. lie trusted he had conveyed to
those of their lordships who had done him the honour to
listen to him the conviction that it would be the most fal-
lacious thing in the world to draw conclusions from the
limited area of the present court, and apply them to the ex-
tended area of the new jurisdiction. Their lordships had
been petitioned by a body of merchants, praying them to
adopt the suggestions of the committee. But he must ob-

serve that matters of the administration of justice belonged
not to merchants but to legislators: Their lordships would
not allow to merchants the same experience in this as they
would in commercial affairs. He had omitted one feature
of great importance. For a long time there had been no
greater reproach to the administration of justice than the
rules attending the discharge of bankrupts. During the last
few years instances of laxity of morality had been witnessed
which were a disgrace to the commercial community.
(Hear, hear.) Many of these delinquencies had been dis-
covered, but there was a difference in the views of the bank-
ruptcy courts as to the mode in which they should be dealt
with. Some years ago this subject had been brought before
their lordships' consideration, and a system of certificates
had been established indicative of the degree of censure
which attached to the conduct of each particular bankrupt.
After they had laid down the rule it depended for its
utility entirely upon the way in which it was carried into
effect. It was of very little value what laws they-laid
down, unless they provided also a corresponding machinery.
Indeed he might almost adopt the old line, and say,

" Whate'er is best administered is best."

But the commissioners differed so much in their decisions
that in 100 cases one would give 13 first-class certificates,
while another would give 50 or 60. In fact the certificates
had become a mere absurdity and delusion. But he would
restore the scheme by giving the administration into one
hand ; for he proposed that in all such cases there should be
an immediate resort to the chief judge, who would thuse be
enabled to apply an equal stigma to the same degree of de-
linquency. Again, it was proposed to give to the court a dis-
cretionarypower in discharging an insolvent, to say whether
any property that he might hereafter acquire should remain
liable to his past debts. But surely a great power like that
required a directing hand. He hoped the bill would be found
a considerable improvement on the existing law, but that
hope would be completely strangled if their lordships re-
fused to adopt the only machinery by which it could be effi-
ciently carried into effect. It was said that the Lords Jus-
tices were quite competent to carry on the business of ap-
peals. He agreed that there were no judges in the land by
whom justice was more efficiently or more economically ad-
ministered ; but they were already so fully occupied that
they could not with propriety be asked to accept any addi-
tional duties. Besides, the business transacted by the Privy
Council was every year increasing, and was thus making
every year a greater demand upon their time. He proposed,
however, that the great mass of appeals and the control of
the other judges in bankruptcy should be handed over to the
chief judge. The whole of the immense business of the Pro-
bate Court was now carried on by a single judge with the
assistance of his registrars, and the simplicity of the present
jurisdiction could hardly be exceeded ; while the cost of the
court, he was happy to say, was not above a fifteenth or a
sixteenth of that of the old testamentary jurisdiction. It
was his hope to introduce a similar system into bankruptcy,
and accordingly, by a clause in the bill power was taken not
to fill up the vacancies which might occur in the 4ommis-
sionerships. All the results he contemplated could only be
accomplished if their lordships would place this great court
of debtor a7_d creditor in a position of equality with the
other superior courts of justice. There were other topi, s
on which he might enlarge, but he would not now trespass
upon the patience of their lordships, as he should have an
opportunity of saying a few words in reply. He was satis-
fied that no one could read the bill without seeing the ne-
cessity of a chief judge, and therefore with an earnest desire
to promote the sacred interests of truth and justice he ear-
nestly implored their lordships to agree with , the House of
Commons so far as the point now before them was con-
cerned. (Loud cheers.)
Lord CIIANWORTH said there was one part of the
able speech of the noble lord in which he fully concurred,
namely, that this was the first time the question had been
discussed in their lordships' house; but he could not agree
that that was attributable to those who did not consider the
chief judge requisite. He had from the first warned his
late noble and learned friend (Lord Campbell) that the
chief judgeship would be unnecessary and mischievous. No
doubt the discussion on the question had taken place in a
select committee; but why was that? He (Lord Cran-
worth) had pointed out to his late noble friend that there
were so many little points that would require amendment,
that the bill could not be considered in a committee of the
whole house; and his noble friend admitted that such was
the cue. But it was distinctly understood that it would be
open to any noble lord to revive any question in the com-
mittee ; and his noble friend had not attempted to raise this
point of the chief judge. If therefore the question was now
discussed in the present inconvenient form, the fault was
with those who had not condescended to state their reasons
at a more legitimate stage of the bill. (Hear, hear.) No-
body would complain that his noble friend on the woolsack
had spoken too long. On the contrary, he had stopped far
too short. He had stated a great many truths, which no-
body wished to deny, such as the importance of an uniform
administration of justice; but he had given the go-by to
the real question at issue, namely, whether there was any
necessity for this chief judge ? For what was bankruptcy ?
A bankrupt was a person who had committed an overt act
of insolvency and the object of the law was to take pos-
-1 session of his property and distribute it rateably amongst
his creditors. Formerly bankruptcy was regarded as a
crime ; but a different feeling now prevailed, and a man
might petition himself to be made bankrupt. In nine cases
out of ten the proceedings were of a mere formal character.
Indeed that was the whole case of the noble lord, who said
that the business might be carried on by registrars. Some-
times, it was true, a person denied that he had committed
any act of bankruptcy at all, and there must of course in
that case be a judge to determine the fact. Then came the
question of who were tie creditors, but that did not depend
upon the law of bankruptcy, but upon the law of the land.
Then the money was got in and distributed in one or more
dividends. It was in business of that kind that the com-
missioners were employed, and to say that they were not
able to discharge such duties would be really practising
upon the credulity of their lordships. (Hear, hear.) No
doubt some of them enjoyed a higher reputation than
others; but amongst them were gentlemen whose character,
as regarded integrity, honour, and law, stood as high as
that of any legal functionaries that could be named. Of
course, they were liable to err ; and how were they to be set
right? Lord Brougham had been taunted upon the consti-
tution of his Court of Review, which consisted of a chief
judge and three pusines. But, if his noble friend had been
present, he would have been able to show that he had had a
right to expect that there would be a good deal of appeal
business. A higher class of commissioners had, however,
been appointed, and that with the amendments which were
introduced into the law, had obviated three-fourths of the
appeals which had formerly been made. The Court of Re-
view had, therefore,nolthiensguntoindstoe,raHndalalf.terAat
llasitttleittfromlle
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became a mere joke in v
the ground, and in 1847 the whole of the business was
tferre
h
So the matter stood
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oa
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thece lr l o
Vice-Chancellor in Bank-
ruptcy was transferred to the Lords Justices of Appeal, and
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e
from that time to the present the same system prevailed.
Having stated what the present course of the administration
of Bankruptcy was, he proceeded to state the grounds for
his opinion in regard to the appointment of a supreme
judge. Powers were given under the bill to review the
taxation of the bills of costs; to frame, with the Lord Chan-
cellor, general rules to regulate the practice of the court;
and to perform certain other fuuctions upon reference from
the registrar, none of which required the services of a chief
judge. A later clause gave power to try certain questions by
a jury, but unless this clause was introduced to give colour
to the appointment he could not understand what was the
motive for its introduction, for they might depend that if
the bill passed there would never be found issues to be
tried by a jury. But that there might remain no doubt
upon this point, he had written to Mr. Erskine, who pre-
sided over the court for seven years, to know how many
cases of trial by a jury had occurred during that period,
and his answer was that there were only three, and that
of them only one had eventuated in a verdict. Clause
142 was by far the most important ; it provided that
in case of any disputes between creditors and the assignees,
or if there were no bankruptcy, between the creditors and
trustees, the questions of dispute might be referred to the
chief judge ; but that was not a new proposition. There was
a similar provision by the 229th section of the old bank-
ruptcy law, though he admitted that this clause went further
in this respect than the old act, and was so far an improve-
ment. The next provision to which he drew attention was
that by which power was given to the chief judge to refuse
or suspend the order of discharge, or in other words, the
certificate; but this was a power which was quite unneces-
sary, seeing that it was held at present by the commis-
sioners, ?g oners, though no doubt it was a very proper power to
trustlt was mon-
to the chief judge if it were conceded that.the appointment
of a chief judge was necessary or expedient.
.qrous to say that a high legal functionary ranking with the
judges of the land was necessary for any of the duties which
he had yet pointed out. He was perfectly aware that this
was not all. They were told that the chief judge was to be a
much more accessible tribunal of appeal than the Lords Jus-
tices. Upon this point the noble and learned lord led their
lordships to suppose that nothing would in future go to the
Lords Justices but appeals from the chief judge. But many
parties would prefer the decision of the Lords Justices still
to that of the chief judge, and they would have the power
to carry their cases to them. He contended that the appeal
to the chief judge could not be either cheaper or more
speedy than the present appeal to the Lords Justices of
Appeal. A return had been made of the number of appeals
which had been taken before the Lords Justices; and how
many days were so occupied ? Why, 215 days only during
a period of from 13 to 14 years, that is to say, about 15
days a year- Now the Lords Justices always discharged
their business in the course of a year; and why should
these 15 days of bankruptcy business be transferred from
them to the chief judge ? For these reasons he had been
onvinced of the unnecessary character of this appoint-

meat. But his noble and learned friend had stated that
his object in truth was to get rid of the commissioners,
and to establish this judge as a substitute for them. This he
(Lord Cranworth) considered to be a most dangerous inno-
vation upon constitutional principles. He had always been
consistent in the view that this functionary was both unne-
cessary and objectionable. He could assure hi 3 noble and
learned friend that his only object was to actin this matter
according to his honest convictions—(hear)—and in all law
reforms he could honestly assure his noble and learned
friend that he would find no more cordial supporter than
himself. (Hear.)
Lord CHELMSFORD said no one could doubt the sin-
cerity of his noble friend's views who had heard his speech,
which of itself was sufficient to remove the insinuation that
the committee had been improperly influenced. His
noble and learned friend on the woolsack had stigma-
tised it as a secret committee. He believed that there
was not a member, of the committee who did- not give
his impartial and single-minded attention to the sub-
ject. His noble and learned friend had inquired for
the reasons why the committee had come to the conclu-
sion they did. He hoped the unanswerable speech of his
nobleand learned friend (Lord Cranworth) would gratify the
wish of his noble and learned friend (the Lord Chancellor).
His noble and learned friend, in a tone to which the house
wes unaccustomed—(hear, hear)—had insinuated that in
consequence of the conclusion of the select committee votes
in the other House of Parliament had been influenced, and
that members of that house had been induced to change
their opinions from political motives. He had further
hinted that the principle of a chief judge had been originally
suggested by the Attorney-General of his noble friend (Lord
Derby's) Government. But his noble friend's Government
was not answerable for the opinion of Sir Fitzroy Kelly. The
noble and learned lord had expressed great solicitude for his
offspring, the result of long and painful labour, and he was
displeased if any one detected in it any deformity or irregu-
larity. But as he had laid his offspring at the door of the
house, he must not be surprised if their lordships examined
it a little before they took it up and adopted it. He (Lord
Chelmsford) was not satisfied of the validity of the reasons
for appointing a chief judge and transferring to him the
duties now so ably performed by the Lords Justices. A. nar-
now view, he thought, had always been taken on this subject.
It was forgotten that there were such places as Birmingham
and Manchester, as well as London. From a return it had
been shown that 85 per cent. of the bankruptcies were below
£l,OOO, and a great majority of these were under £3OO. So
that this great judge would have to perform his duties with
respect to 15 per cent. only of "the bankrupts. Both an ap-
pellate and an original jurisdiet'on was to be conferred on
this new functionary. Now, as to the number of appeals
brought before the Lords Justices, it appeared that during
last year there were 42. There had been no delay, no com-
plaint of delay, and no suggestion of delay, until it became

necessary to establish some ground for depriving the Lords
Justices of this jurisdiction. Then the costliness of the
appeals had been spoken of. The average cost, it appeared,
was about £5O to £3O, a sum which at first sight did not
appear startling ; but he had strong reasons for thinking
that the cost of appeals before the new judge would be even
greater than thdy were at present. It was not likely that
the chief judge would in doubtful cases refuse a further ap-
peal to the Lords Justices, and the expense would thus be
doubled. But then his noble friend suggested that the
amalgamation of the law of bankruptcy and of insolvency
would lead to a great increase in the amount of business.
That argument was an entirely imaginary one; because' it
rarely happened that an insolvent's estate wag a large one,
and there was not much to encourage appeals where the
funds ran short. (Laughter.) But suppose the present num-
ber were doubled, and they required 30 days instead of 15.
Well, was that a sufficient case for the new judge? His
noble friend very well knew, that to confine his new func-
tionary to the duty of hearing appeals would be absurd ;
and he had therefore cast about for other duties which he
might give him. He (Lord Chelmsford) remembered that
when liis noble friend opposite pressed the late Lord Chan-
cellor to state in the committee what the duties of the new
judge were to be, the noble lord's reply was not very satis-
factory ; for he merely observed that the chief judge would
be the keystone of the arch. He (Lor4 Chelmsford) recol-
lected remarking on that to a noble lord near him that
"£5,000 a-year was a large sum to pay for a metaphor.
(Laughter, and cheers.) As to the supposed contrariety of
the commissioners' decisions, he altogether denied that such
contrariety really existed. There was no difference whatever
in their decisions upon the principle of bankruptcy law,
though no doubt one of them might take a sterner view tha
another of lapses from what was called "commercial mortali
ty." But would the appointment of a chief judge cure that
The circumstances under which a bankrupt might be dis-
charged were stated in the 146th sec. so clearly, that those
that ran might read ; and he could not see why the commis-
sioners, men second to none in point of experience, might
not be entrusted with the enforcement of those simple
rules. Besides, how would the appointment of a chief judge
in London cure discrepancies in the decisions ef the seven
or eight country commissioners and the 60 county court
judges ? It was really trifling with their lordships
to put before them such a recipe for uniformity
of decision. (Cheers.) The questions which arose in
bankruptcy had generally respect to persons over whom
the court itself had no jurisdiction—questions, namely, of
fraudulent preference and reputed ownership, which must
be settled in the courts of law. Then, his noble friend said
that there would be an enormous influx of business arising
out of the numerous deeds of arrangement; and his noble
friend proceeded to argue that the number of those deeds
was a proof that the present bankruptcy law was un-
popular. He (Lord Chelmsford) considered that those deeds
constituted the very best mode of arrangement in the first
instance. But how could these deeds add to the business of
the court ? Next, his noble friend said, "only think of the
advantage of having a judge sitting in chambers." Well,
his noble friend opposite to him would no doubt agree that
business in chambers was not always very satisfactorily
conducted ; but however that might be, it so happened that
the same power of sitting in chambers was given to the com
missioners. (Hear, hear.) As to the question of appeals,
Lord Justice Knight,Bruce had never doubted for one mo-
ment that he and his learned colleague would not be per-
fectly able to discharge the small additional labour that
might be thrown upon them. The original jurisdiction of
the new judge was merely a pretence for finding him some-
thing to do, and there being still less reason for his appel-
late function, he (the noble lord) did hope that their lord-
ships would insist upon their amendments—amendments
which had been agreed to without a division in the select
committee, and which had been properly made for the pur-
pose of preventing a most useless waste of public money.
(Cheers.)
Lord WENSLEYDALE entirely agreed with the views
which had been expressed by his noble friends. Tho law of
bankruptcy required no great amount of legal learning; and
he really did not see therefore what necessity there was for
a judge of the rank and with the salary proposed by the
original bill. The amendment had been unanimously agreed
to in a committee comprising noble lords of great expe-
rience, and belonging to all political parties. N o one argu-
ment had been adduced in favour of the new judgeship, and
he trusted, therefore, that their lordships would adhere to
their decision.

The LORD CHANCELLOR replied, observing that
with the knowledge of bankruptcy displayed by his two
noble and learned friends who spoke after him, he was not
surprised at their opposition to this measure. (Laughter.)
There were many important questions which would neces-
sarily come before the chief judge under the provisions of
this bill, and there would not be left any reference to the
Lords Justices. The act repealed was the act that created
the jurisdiction of the Lords Justices transferred as
described, and than was therefore nothing left for
the transfer to operate upon, and the arguments
upon this point only showed the want of information of the
noble and learned lords who had employed them. The
jurisdiction of the court would be by this bill enlarged ten-
fold, and the duties that would devolve upon the chief
judge would necessarily be increased in the same
Lords-
proportion. The effect of the measure would be
to establish in the place of a costly appeal to the
which
Justices a more•simple and expeditiousmachineryro
suggest to
a settlement of the question at issue might JD
arrived at at a cost of a few shillings. would
He
this question first
their lordships the propriety of puttinngththeiirbb.avbly be
amendments
—whether they would still insist u
relating to the offices,
must for a few me •
Lord CRANWORTH said that he .
explanation. His nobleP°:rscohfatrhgeedehiefjudg.
oalnsadek had him with
hhueet ii lordshipsrews:
ments trouble the house with an
accustomeddatitoonAet
attempting
demleparntinedg
tforimenidsleoand tdt
look to the woolsack
'dons of the law. (Hear, hear.) Now
for accurate darn
friend had been
constituting the.
noble and learned
.correct in stating
bankruptcy had been repealed, he would
from correct in
have been farstating that there would have
been nothing for the transfer by the jurisdiction to act
if
fhhaheti is
the lordships
clauses
upon; hut although his noble and learned friend had assailed
him in no very courteous language—(cheers from the jurisdiction in
oppo-
sition benches)—he begged to say that the 12th and 13th.
sections of the Consolidation Act, by which the jurisdiction
was constituted, were not included in the schedule of the
present act. (Hear, hear.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR then put the question that
the house shnul•l insist upon its amendments, so far as they
related to the office, duties, and powers of the chief judge
in bankruptcy.
Their lordships divided, and the numbers were—
Contents ............................ 80
Non-contents
Majority

The LORD-CHANCELLOR said that there was a largo
class of remaining amendments relating to the question of
the discharge of the official assignees. With the permission
of their 13rdships, he would put the question with respect
to these assignees first, and the remaining miscellaneous.
amendments might be included in a third question.
Upon the question being put that the house should insist
upon its amendments relating to the official and creditors'

assig,nees,
Lord CHELMSFORD said it was not his intention to
divide the house upon this question. It was one of eminent
importance to the commercial community. The official as—
signees would have been very popular, had it not been that.
they were paid by a per centage upon the `value of estates,.
and thus a heavy expenditure was incurred. Now the great.
majority of cases in bankruptcy were settled cut of courts

though not from the reason stated by his noble and learned
friend on the woolsack. The bill would now be restored to
its original state ; but he could not help calling their lord-
ships' attention to the difficulties that would arise from the
number and variety of duties that would be thrown upon
the assignees. It certainly seemed to him that it would be
better to leave the power of the official assignees as it now
was.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought it would be better
to follow the almost universal voice of the trading commu-
nity. The proper function of the official assignee, it seemed
to him, would be to act as auditor over the trade assignee.
Referring to a point which had been raised in the previous
discussion, the noble and learned lord contended that the
75th and 244th sections took away every appeal but that
which was given by the bill.

Lord CRANWORTH—I am at issue with my noble
friend. I say they do not.
The house then concurred in the Commons' amendment.

On the other amendments,

Lord CHELMSFORD observed that their lordships had
under the 118th clause given power to the court to settle
the bankrupt's allonance ; but the Commons had altered
it back, so that now the creditors at the first meeting were
to determine the question. It certainly seemed rather hard
upon the bankrupt that his creditors should have to decide
the matter at the moment when they would probably be
most irritated against him.
Earl GRANVILLE reminded the noble and learned lord
that a bankrupt's estate was, after all, the property of his
creditors.

The LORD CHANCELLOR added that creditors had
uniformly been found to be more than liberal.
Lord KINGSDOWN said there was one question to
which he wished particularly to draw attention. One object
of the bill was to do away with the distinction which had
hitherto existed as to persons who were traders, and those
who were not. In abolishing the distinction, there had
been a qualification suggested, which he thought very
useful, namely, immediately upon a declaration of bank-
ruptcy the whole of the property to which the bankrupt
was entitled was subjected to immediate sale, and the object
of the amendment was to prevent, in the case of a person
haVing the reversion of an estate, the sale of that reversion,
the value of which would only be 2f years' purchase, with-
out the consent of the judge.
The LORD CHANCELLOR concurred that some limi-
tation should be put upon the sale of a reversion under the
circumstances stated.

The Earl of DERBY doubted whether it would be com-
petent for their lordships to amend a clause which they had
sent down, and to which the Commons had assented.
Lord WENSLEYDALE wished to insist on the Lords'
amendment, with regard to the shorthand writers' clause.
The LORD CHANCELLOR supported the clause as it
stood in the bill. He said that shorthand writers were em-
ployed at their lordships' bar, and without their assistance
cross-examination was rendered difficult, and almost im-
possible.
The motion was then put that their lordships should in,.
silt upon their miscellaneous amendments, and negatived—
and the motion that their lordships should agree with the
Commons' amendments was put and carried.
Upon the motion of the Earl of DERBY a committee was
ordered to confer with the Commons, stating their lord-
ships' reasons for disagreeing with certain of the Commons'
amendments and agreeing with others.
TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE BILL.—ORD-
NANCE SURVEY CONTINUANCE BILL.

These bills were read a second time.
The Dealers in Old Metals Bill passed through com-
committee.

The Parochial and Burgh Schools (Scotland) Bill
passed through committee.
The County Voters (Scotland) Bill, with amendments,
passed through committee,
The report of amendments to the Volunteers Exemption
Bill was recei Rd.

Tha Probate and Letters of Administration Act (Ire-
land) Amendment Bill, with_amendments, passed through
committee.

The Annoyance Jurors (Westminster) Bill, with amend-
ments, was read a third time and prssed.
The Voters (Ireland) Bill and University Elections Bill
were read a third time and passed.
The Copyright of Designs Bill passed through com•
mittee.

The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Dublin Revising Barristers Bill; Lunatic Asylum (Ire-
land) Act Continuance Bill ; County Cess (Ireland) Act
Continuance Bill; Tramways (Scotland) Bill ; and the
Local Government Act Amendment Bill.

The Industrial Schools (Scotland) Bill passed through
committee.

The Industrial Schools Bill passed through committee.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at twenty minutes past
twelve o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords' amendments to the following bills were con-
isidered an -I agreed to :—Llanelly Railway and Dock (New
Lines, &c.) ; Monmouthshire Railway and Canal (New
Lines, &c.) ; Saint George's Harbour; Southampton and
Netley Railway ; Stourbridge Railway (Extension to
Smethwick, &c.) ; and Swansea Harbour Trast.
The M'Mahon's Estates Bill and the Rumney Railway
Bill were read a third time and passed.

THE NEW CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND.

On the motion of BRAND, a writ was ordered to
issue for the election of a burgess to serve in Parliament
for the borough of Tamworth, vacant by the acceptance of
the office of Chief Secretary for Ireland by Sir ROBERT
PEEL,