The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-21 00:00:00

LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, MAY 21, 1857.

MR. DISRAELI IN NORTH BUCKING-
HAMSHIRE.

The two Conservative members for the county of
Bucks yesterday dined, according to ancient cus-
tom, at a farmers' ordinary, with a body of their
constituents, at the Anchor Hotel, Newport Pag-
nell. Tbe company comprised. nearly 150 agricul-
turists and other
,influential gentlemen connected
with the northern part of the county.
It will be seen from the subjoined report, of the
proceedings that Mr. Disraeli availed himself of
the opportunity afforded by the occasion to enter
into a lengthened exposition of his views on the
present aspect of public affairs. The chair was occu-
pied by Mr. E. Greaves.
The usual loyal and patriotic toasts having been
given, the health of the two Conservative members
were duly proposed and enthusiastically received.

Mr. Du- PRE, in virtue of his position as senior
member, was the first to respond, and addressed the
company in brief but appropriate terms.
Mr. DISR AELI was received with loud cheers. He
said : Mr. Chairman and gentleman,—l should
have. been quite satisfied to leave the acknowledg-
ment of our sense of your kindness to us to-day to
my colleague, Mr. Du Pre, between whom and
myself, since we have both been in the service of
the county, there has always existed entire sym-
pathy, and from.whom, whenever the affairs of
Buckinghamshire have been. concerned, I have
always received cordial co-operation and assistance
—had I not been afraid that it would appear like
affectation on my part were I to suppose that on
4hissaccasion you would expect me to rema'n alto-
gether silent. It is some time now since I had the
honour of meeting you at Newport Pagnell and in
this room, and the interval that has elapsed has
been eventful even in this country, where events
must necessarily succeed each other rapidly. Last
night, or I may say this me ruing, for it was nearly.
2 o'clock when the House of Commons was break-
ing up, a very great personage invited me to to call
upon.him to confer with him on a subject of deep
moment. and I told him that it was not in my
rower to wait upon him as I could have wished, be-.
cause I had to meet my constituents, with whom I
was to have the honour of dining at a farmers' ordi-
nary at. Newport Pagnell ; upon which that great
personage observed, " Good God ! what can you
say to them 1" (Laughter.) Gentlemen, this is the
solution of the inquiry of that eminent personage.
I have kept my engagement to meet a body of my
constituents, and I am now about to do that which,
in the opinion of one of the most experienced judges
of such matters, is regarded as, probably, the mos's
difficult task that could fall to the lot of any man.
Now, that great personage, although he has re-
ceived all that the favour of the Sovereign and the
,confidence of the people could bestow upon him in
his distinguished•career, and although he has also
been a county member, never had the honour of
representing the county of Bucks. (" Hear," and
a laugh.) That I believe is the only honour he has
never achieved. If he had ever been a member for
this county he would have known that it is not diffi-
cult at any time to address a bodycf men who from
'their habits, and the traditions they have inherited
from their forefathers, have always taken an in-
terest in political questions and in the government
of the country. (Hear, bear.) Therefore although
I address you at a moment when public excitement
is not very rife, std.!, as is my custom—as is always
the custom of your members—l wish to speak
to You with candour and without reserve on
subjects of national interest and importance ; and
I know that I shall receive from you that sym-
pathy and attention which may be expected from
a body of gentlemen who do not, on occasions
like the present, look to the mere claptraps of
tavern rhetoric, but require from their representa-
tive a frank and manly declaration of his opinions
on the great topics which interest them. (Hear,
hear.) When we last met in this room some five
years ago you were suffering from that unrestricted
compstition to which the industry in which you
are all engaged was, by a great and unexpected
commercial revolution, subjected • and it was then
a great question whether you would be able suc-
cessfully to pass through that ordeal. Much confi-
dence, in which I shared, was felt at that time in
the energy and skill of the British farmer ; and,
speaking now in the presence of a 'British—of a
Buckinghamshire farmer—who has reduced the
steam-plough to successful practice—(hear, bear)—
I do not think I was wrong in the expectations I
then entertained from the high qualities of the cul-
tivators of the sod. But it is not to revive the con-
troversy between unrestricted competition and
protected industry that I have adverted to this sub-
ject. While that great and ever fierce controversy
was going on, a vast revolution was taking place from
natural causes, and, perhaps, by Providential in-
terposition, which, in fact, baffled all the predic-
tions and a'l the calculations hazarded on both sides
of the question. What effect the gold discoveries
of California and Australia have had on the for-
tunes of England and of the world is a subject
which engages and perplexes the minds of the most
eminent men in this country. Yet the question is
one which we must not neglect to. consider. I
have no doubt myself that directly, by stimulating
the consuming power of the world and producing,
new markets, and more powerfully, though indi-
rectly; by causing and creating the great works
now being prosecuted in every part of the globe,
these discoveries led to those high prices which
have for some years prevailed in all articles, and
have tended to counteract the effect of the legisla-
tive changes which we feared. I don't mean to say
that the railroads of Eng!and, for example, are
owing to the discovery of the precious metals in
California and Australia ' • but the railways of
France, Spain, Austria, and particularly of India,
are solely due to that cause. It may be said if we
attribute such beneficial consequences to the unex-
pected increase of the capital of the world, that it
is difficult to reconcile such results with the high
rate of interest on capital which now prevails. Of
course, on such a subject all opinions must be given
with e humility, but it 'is my own belief that
these apparent inconsistencies may be reconciled.
I have no doubt, and never had any doubt, that
the tendency and ultimate result of the gold dis-
coveries will be'to diminish' the rate of interest on
money. At the same time we connot conceal from
ourselves that the enterprise of the human race has
outrun the 'increase of capital which has taken
place ; and, although by that enterprise a great
stimulus has been imparted to the consuming power
of the country, occasioning the present beneficial
influence on prices, still a high rate of interest for
capital has simultaneously occurred. I have no
doubt, however, that as events proceed, we shall
find a natural result ensue, and that while you ex-
perience this advantage from the prices of all the
articles which you produce and consume, you
will also combine with them that mach re-
duced rate of interest on capital which I
think is the inevitable consequence of those
gold discoveries which are probably destined
to produce a greater effect on the history of this
country and of the world than anything that has
happened since the discovery of America. (Hear.)
I have referred to these points because they have a
very material connexion with the position in which
you were placed when I last htd the honour of ad-
dressing you. Nor can I conceal it from myself—
although, no doubt, there may be some great strain
on the country in the interval—although, no doubt,
there is required in private enterprise great pru-
dence, and in the public expenditure great economy
—that the position of the nation in consequence of
the recent discoveries of the precious metals has
become one of a sound and healthy description. I
cannot doubt that the ultimate effect of all this must
be to increase the prosperity of this country ; nor
do I believe that either in ancient or modern his-
tory there ever was a nation more happily placed
than England is at present, or that had a future to
which it might look forward with so much satisfac-
tion. (Hear.) Well, if this be a true and fair view
of our situation, it, is certainly very remarkable
that this is the moment in which we hear so much
of approaching political changes, and that it should
be at a time when the great body of the people are
satisfied, contented, and prosperous, that we should
hear of great impending innovations in our political
institutions. (Hear.) [t becomes us at the present
moment well to consider the position that we now
occupy, and what may be the course which it will
be our duty to take should these changes be pro-
posed. (Hear.) I shall take the liberty with the ut-
most brevity of which the nature of the case admits,
to state my opinions on this subject. In fact it
would be a mockery for one who holds the import-
asat post of your representative to meet you here
to-day and not revert to what seems to be the con-
sequence of the, last dissolution of Parliament—
ns.trnely, that in due time, and when our rulers
think fit, we shall be called upon to consider great
changes in the political constitution of the country.
With regard to Parliamentary Reform I would pre-
sume to say this—that I have no prejudices in
favour of the existing system, which was brought
into operation in 1832. I believe when, that great
change took place its conception was not altogether
exempt from the spirit of faction. (Hear.) I have
always thought, and always expressed wy belie

that when the reform of Parliament was brought
forward in 1832 it was not framed with a just re-
gard to the interests of those connected with the
property and the cultivation of the soil. I think
also, although this is a very minor point, that in
arranging the boundaries of boroughs and many.
other matters *there was all that Wing, contriv-
ance, and manceuvre which are, probably, inevit-
able when such a Measure is prepared by a political'
party so circumstanced at the moment of effecting
the change as to be irresponsible. But, though I
have held that opinion, I have also thought that
political change, unless called for by a political ne-
cessity, is, in a Country like England, a great social
evil. And I have lookkkl always—not, I believe,
without reason—to the remedial agency which would
be exercised on some of the arrangements that might
have been very factiously brought about by the
good sense and common feeling of Euglishmen—in-
fiuences which would, in thelong rue, teed to emove
some of the evils and alleviate some of the injustice
which are now pretty generally acknowledged to
mark the settlement of 1832. Bet, although I be-
lieve there is no feeling whatever in the country in
favour of what is commonly called Parliamentary
reform ; though I think I may say't hat the Parlia-
mentary reformers in the present day are only to
be found in Parliament ; yet, when you look to the
position of the question, and find that the Prime
Minister has acknowledged:---no matter what may
have been the cause of his decision—that it is his
intention next year to introduce a measure of Pa
i
liamentary reform, leaving it probably to publ
opinion in the interval to give a tone as to what the
character of that measure maybe, I think we should
be totally negligent of ourdtity, quif un4atorthy of
the privileges of Englishmen, if we passed such an
occasion in silence, and did not attempt, by calin
consideration and by investigating the merits of the
case, to arrive at some conclusions that may guide
our conduct when we are called upon to acr. Now,
although for the reasons I have assigned I am un-
willing that the present system should be disturbed
—although I think political change the greatest of
all social evils in its consequences--although I may
not be prepared, and yet it has been announced in
some public journals of the greatast eminence that
I am, with a Reform Bill of my own—(laughter)--
I am not prepared, on the other hand, to say that
if the Minister on his own responsibility bring for-
ward a measure of that character, I will not give to

it a candid and sincere consideration on its merits.
(Hear, hear.) There is great discussion at the pre-
sent day as to what is the proper element of repre-
sentation. Some tell you that population is the
element of a representative system ; others tell you
property is the proper element ; a third party tells
you that pr'operty and population should be taken
together ; and a fourth tells you that population
and property always go together, and cannot be
separated. But I think there is one element in a
representative Government which is still more im—
portant than even population or property. 1 mean
prescription. (Hear, hear.) An old European
country, and especially England, obeys the autho-
rity to which it is accustomed. But no country of
the antiquity of our own, no country where an arti-
ficial a system of society and of credit exists as in
this, ever can sustain perpetual changes of Govern-
ment, and will always have a bias for obeying the
autbotity which is traditionary. (Hear.) There-
fore, supposing the Minister next year brings for-
ward a scheme of Parliamentary reform, I shall,
though adverse as a general rale to political change,
give to his proposition a candid consideration ; I
shall ask myself whether the proposition which he '
makes is one that is calculated to concede that jus-
tice which I think has been hitherto denied to your
claims, but which I would not have disturbed-society
by demanding, and yet which, if by the act of the
Government themselves the country is called upon
to investigate the question, I think it the duty of
the classes connected with the land clearly and
earnestly to place before the Legislature. Let me
illustrate my meaning by-ari instance. The popu-
lar idea of Parliamentary -ref*n.. may be fairly
stated in this manner. A gen'tleinau who is a Par-
liamentary reformer takils a' small borough—for
example. Buckingham orT WyOonibe—and- he says,
" Here are two boroughs with a csnstituency of
300 voters each, and here is the city of Manchester-,
in the county of Lancaster, with a %population of
300,000 inhabitants, but with only two members,
or the same number, iu fact, as the little borough
of Buckingham. What injustice ! What anoma-
lies I at is-absolutely necessarytlent we should. dis-
franchise Buckingham or Wycombe., and transfer
its two membersto Manchester." And it is asto-
nishing how plausible this proposal sounds, and
how easily it is credited even by those whose inte-
rests are not involved in its adoption. But, gen-
tlemen, if you come to anomalies, I should like to
know whether there are none in our representation
infinitely more striking than this very popular ire-
stance drawn from the small boroughs with only 300
constituents. I have a note here which is very brief
but very pregnant. Take, for example, the county
of South Cheshire, with qa population of 206,000.
There is only one town there, the city of Chester,
centaining 28,000 inhabitants—it returns two mem-
bers, while the countycontains 178,000 inhabitants
and yet returns only' two members. Thus the
county of South Cheshire, with 178,000 inhabi-
tants, returns the same number of members as the
city of Chester with 28,000. I could go-through al-
most every county in England and show the same
anomalies. The subject is one on which it is of the
utrooet importance that the people of this country
should have the most accurate information, and that
information theyshould learn, mark, and inwardly
digest during the next nine months, so that when
the proposition of the Government, or of any Go-
vernment, is made they should be able to form a
sound opinion upon it. I meet every day of my life
men who are called Conservatives in opinion—fair
and honourable men, who probably have not had
time to examine this question, and who often say,
" There are unquestionably great anomalies inthe
present system. Why, the little town and the great
city return the same number of members. Surely,
you must disfranchise the little towns, and give the
seats to the great cities." I arnnot opposed to every
measure of Parliamentary reform which any Minis-
ter may bring forward. I think it probable that
any scheme that is introduced mast do more justice
to the claims which, I think, are not properly
treated. But this is the point which I wish to press
upon you, because it is upon it that your future
conduct must depend. It is, that if we are to have
a new scheme of Parliamentary reform, these claims
ought to be admitted. Perhaps you will pardonmo
if I put before you a few more facts. There is the
case of North Cheshire, with a total population of
249,000 inhabitants, and with the two great towns
of Macclesfield and Stockport. Well, the two towns,
with a population of 93,000 return four members,
while the rural population consisting of 150,000
returns only two. Is not that an anomaly as striking
as that presented by the small county town and the
large manufacturing city ? Another remarkable case
is that of the county of South Derby, which has
only one large town, and a total population of
166,000. The town f Derby, with 40,000 inhabi-
tants, has two members, while the rural population
numbering 125,000, has but two. Is not than an
anomaly? (Cheers.) Again, take the county of
North Durham, with a total population 0f272,000,
and having fourtowns, viz. :—Durham, Gateshead,
South Shields, and Sunderland. The town popula-
tion numbers 136,000, or exactly the same as that
of the county, and yet the towns are represented
giving you a sta-
tistical six members, whits the county bas only two.
tPisetrilrals I
lecture,ough t to
particularly
ye
in this
this hot weather.
(No, no, and laughter.) But really we live in very
paa
remarkable times. I recollect no instance of a Prime
Minister dissolving Parliameat, and after a general
election coming down to the new House of Com-
mons, and saying his first important measure will
be to reform and reconstruct them—(laughter)—
but that as ho has not made up his mind how to do
it he will take a year to consider of it. I don't wish
to criticise the future policy of the noble lord, but
I think we should be the greatest idiots in the
world if we did not take the' opportunity of in-
structing ourselves on this question, so that the
noble lord may have the advantage of the expres-
sion of the opinions of Englishmen upox it, which
may influence his measures ; and if his measures
are not influenced by the just views that we are at-
tempting to maintain, at least when his scheme is
brought before us we shall be able to criticise them
with that poWer which must accrue from a complete
knowledge of the subject. (Hear.) You will,
therefore, feel that I am only doing try duty as
your representative at this important crisis in laying
these facts before you. Well, I come to the county
of West Kent, which has 400,000 inhabitants. Its
four great towns are Chatham, Rochester, Maid-
stone, and Greenwich, with an aggregate popula-
tion of 169,000. These towns return seven mem-
bers, while the rural population, numbering 228,000,
returns only two. That, 1 think, is another ano-
maly. (Hear.) I take, next, Lancashire, that great
county which has exercised so considerable an in-
fluence on your fortunes and on the legislation, and
even the history, of this country. North Lanca-
shire has a population of 460,000. Its four great
towns are Blackburn, Clitheroe, Lancaster, and
Pivotal, which, with a population of 143,000, re-

turn seven members to Parliament,' while the rural
'population, comprising. 316,000, only returns two.
I come next to that great centre of manufacturing
industry, South Lancashire. It has a total popu-
lation of 1,500,000, or as large a population as
Denmark, and almost as large as that of Holland.
Its towns contain one million inhabitants, and re-
turn 15 members, while the remaining half-million
in the county return hut two. Really, when we
are going to have a Reform Bill,'and when it is the
opinion, not indeed of Lord Palmerston—because
he , has kept that discreet' silence on the subject
which usually characterises him—(a laugh)—but the
opinion of those reformers who are egging him on,
that the measure to be introduced is to reduce the
influence of the landed interest, and to increase the
power of the towns, I think the time has' come
when we ought to meet and let the country know
that we have investigated the subject and have
some clear understanding upon it, and that if we
nre to have a new Reform Bill—which, if the coun-
try wants it, I shall not oppose—let it at least be
based on principles more just than those established
in 1832. If, however, we are to form any opinion
from the expressions of those who are called the
leading reformers of the day, we are to have a new
Reform Bill, which is not to redress the injustice of
1832, but to aggravate it. In order to convince-
you that the instances I have quoted are notiso-
ed dint only samples of what prevails through-
' i. 6 whole arrangements of 1832, let me give
6 t ' • or two further illustrations. East Norfolk,'
onta . ing a population of 250;000, returns two
tubers,ilea
bers, while the town population of Norwich
an Yarmouth, numbering 100,000, returns four.
Then, there is the case of Yorkshire:.. The E4st
Riding contains a total population of 220,000. Hull
and another town, with 94,000 inhabitants. between
them, arerepresented by four members, while the
remaining 126,01)0 ,of rural population have but
two members. The great West Riding has a popu••
lation of 1,300,000 ; its nine groat towns, with a
population of half a million, have 16 mem-
bers, while the rural population 800,000 is
represented, as usual, 'by two members.
What I want the' agricultural classes to do at
the present day is, not to place themselves in the
unfavourable position of saying on this or on any
other great public question that they are opposed
to all change. That is always a difficult position to '
occupy under any circumstances, but it is au impose
sible position when the Goveronient of the country
come forward as the advocates of change, and on
their responsibility, which ought to be deeper than
that of any common man, and with their know-
ledge of the facts of the case, which might to be
more _accurate than that of _any common man, tell
you that a great change in the representation of the
country is required, and that they are prepared to
propose it. Do not put yourselves' in the position
of opposing abstractedly every reform thus intro-
duced, but hake your: elves masters of your case,
and lay it down as a condition that, before you as- ,
sent to it, the change shall be founded on principles
of justice. I am convinced that if you conduct
yourselves in that manner and are supported by
correct information, you may safely appeal to that
sense of fairness which pervades the great bulk of
the people of this country ; and you may be sure
that no change will take place in the Parliamentary
constitution o England, which is conceived in such
a spirit of hostility to the landed interest as the
measure of 1832. I know it will be sail that there
is a fallacy in the ob-ervations that I have addressed
to you, and it is not impossible that the words
uttered in this room may batthe subject of cavil and
criticism. Now, so far as I am concerned, I speak
to court criticism. Ido not come down to meet
you, my best and earliest friends, anerely for the
pleasure of seeing
.you here, but that I may do
something to maintain your interests ant support
your rights. lam prepared for this answer to my
observations, and I am going to discount it, as it
were, before it is made. It will be said that I have
merely taken the population represented by the
towns, and that, on an hypothesis that is perfectly
unjustifiable, have assumed that the rest of the
population is a rural and county population,
whereas there is an immense number of people
who live in towns who are not represented. . It
will be said that I have 10:landed these persons in
the figures that I have given in order to delude my
constituents of Newport'Pagnell. I will meet that
auswei—the only answer that can be given to the
statistibs which.l have laid before you, and which
are takufrom the authentic and Rithoritative tables
of the ghblic census. I hatte taken the trouble to
investigate the number of inhabitants of this coun-
try who live in the unrepresented towns, and I
shall place before you one of the shortest and most
pregnant documents ever read on this all-important
subject to a body of Englishmen. I have taken
England proper as the subject of my illustration
for the obvious sake of simplicity. In Ireland,
Scotland, and even in Wales there are varieties of
franchise and diverse arrangements respecting the
boroughs, whereas throughout England the fran-
chise is similar and the political incidents of the
boroughs are exactly the same. The example I.
shall give is on a scale so extensive as to be per-
fectly conclusive on the general question. There
are 144 county 'members in England, and they
represent a population of 9,777,000, which
gives one member of Parliament for every
67,883 inhabitants. There are 319 borough mem-
bers, representing a population of 7,14 t,OOO, which
gives one member for every 22,334. I shall deduct
the population of the unrepresented towns, which
are supposed to be represented by the county mem-
bers. Their population is exactly 1,000,000. There-
fore the 144 county members will represent
8,777,000, which gives one member for every 60,869
persons ; while the 312 borough members will re-
present a populationof 8,144,678, giving one mem-
ber for every 25,535. So that when I have rectified
the balance and thrown into the boroughs what they
have no right to have, the case stands thus—that
you have one member in the counties for every
61,000, and'one in the boroughs for every 25,000.
Are not these important facts? Aud when we are
told that there are to be new reform bills framed
according to the opinions of the leading reformers
of the country, with a view to dithinish what they
call the undue preponderance of the landed inte-
rest, are we to take no steps to make our position
known ? And when England may be called upon
to decide in some moment of passion on some Par-
liamentary reform, brought forward perhaps for the
purpose of confirming a party in power, ought not
these facts to be welt driven into the convictions
and conscience of the political mind of England ?
You would be acting a suicidal part if, knowing
quite well that a reform bill was to be introduced
in deference to the opinions of those who think that
the classes connected with the land have too much
political power, you were not to awaken the coun-
try to the real state of the case as I have revealed
it to you. (Hear, hear.) Indisposed, therefore,
as I am to disturb the settlement of 1832, still, if a
great political change is contemplated and intro-
duced on the responsibility of the Minister of the
Crown, 1 shall give his proposition a dispassionate
consideration, and endeavour to vindicate the in-
terests which I think have been so long injured.
(Hear.) I have only one remark to add on the sub-
ject of Parliamentary Reform. So coolly is it as-
sumed by Parliamentary reformers that any change
in our representative system must diminish the in-
fluence of the landed interest that you meet per-
sons every day, and persons, too, regarding them-
selves as by no means violent reformers, who want
to alter the county franchise. They are for adopt-
ing a reduced franchise that will curtail the legiti-
mate influence of the landed interest by admitting
into the county constituencies persons unconnected
with that interest. That, I think, would be a most
impolitic course. Whatever plans of parliamentary
reconstruction may be proposed, we ought to adhere
to the great distinction which has always prevailed
in our constitution, and which was adopted after
grave consultation in 1832—namely, that we should
acknowledge the franchise of the towns to arise out
of occupation, and that of the counties out of the
ownership and cultivation of the soil. It is impos-
sible that any sane man can conceive the project to
increase the county constituencies, which have al-
ready fewer members and a larger population than
the boroughs, and at the same time not to deal with
the borough constituencies. Than such a proposal
nothing could be more monstrous or unsatisfactory.
It aggravates the injustice and increases the very
political evil which ought to, be redressed. If there
is to be a change in the electoral body, it ought to
.be an increase in the constituencies of the boroughs.
1 If, therefore, you calmly consider this question
with especial reference to the position and influence
of the land, nothing could be more unjust, absurd,
and anomalous than the schemes of reform hitherto
propounded. (Cheers.) I shall now leave that
which is put forward as the question of the day. It
is hardly necessary for me to trouble you at any
length upon other topics. There is one subject,
however, upon which I 'think the people of this
country
opinion, oughtatidthtaot ki) es
tothe prepared
positiont to
which cometo a
blished church is to maintain in their coustitution.
(Hear.) Ido not mean to enter into the contro-
thdeefi enstitll
e
-
Was a period when these parties did not ram or
versywehxiicsht
inha the
she arisen
churw2ohf
Er en sgpi ea c:d t. o t
hereT h e
which a