The Sun.
London, England, 1857-12-04 00:00:00

not to make any alteration acting upon further informas
tion, but they were not prepared to do so at present. The
noble earl further expressed his fears that the working po-
pthbim to
unalaatimori ephoaesfls. held out
country had a very severe winter before
I tshaimn Ica the
consolationnoble i b
earl
this(Lord
re
respect
tmwabne)a be-
hind me
upon the improved demeanour of the working
classes. At present they were well acquainted with the
real state of things—they knew that the Government had
°ver
nm
upon causes
power to alleviate their distress, that it was dependent
co-operate with their masters in working out every reason-
able combination in order to mitigate as far as possible the
ment had
were no
willing to
control—
and
pon
in ynerstce
which hththee workingGpressure of the coming winter. Bsides, the blessing of en
abundant harvest was another consolatory mitigation of.
any suffering that was to be expected from the high Price
of food. (Hear.) The noble earl then reverted to the topic
which must interest every person who can think or who
can feel—the state of our Indian army. The noble earl
complains that the measures taken by Government have
s
not been sufficient to alleviate the private sufferings of
individuals, and recommended her Majesty's Government
to go further into the consideration of private losses- But
I cannot help thinking that the Government by so doing
would have laid itself open to the charge of a grave ()VW;
geration of the state of affairs. That that state is
serious, that it requires the most careful consideration it
is impossible to deny ; but that our Indian empire is now
in peril I do not believe. (Cheers.) I have a confident
hope that if common prudence and common judgment be
exercised, that empire will be reinstated in all its former
power. The noble earl then spoke of the gallant conduct
of our soldiers. And here certainly the noble earl was
guilty of no exaggeration. (Hear.) I really believe that
exaggeration is impossible in describing that conduct, .0d
I should be unwilling to destroy the force of the singulatlY
eloquent and vivid manner in which the noble earl
au cess. But if anything be more important, or de;
scribed their unheard-of difficulties, and their unparalleled
more
conduct of those wonderful men—in a large ,
likely than another to obtain a place in history, it is the
cases, civilians--who, though scattered at intervals over
the country, have by their deeds covered themselves with
glory, and made themselves worthy of the name of English-
the() There was one phrase in the speech of
noble lord (Lord Portman), however, and it was almost
the only ono with which I could not fully concur, namely,
that he did not think it just to criticise the acts of public
men who were absent from the country. But I think the
acts of public men are public property, and the only reser-
vation 1 wish to make is, that we should be firstacquainted
majority of
with all the facts, that we should not look at transactions
by the light that subsequent facts may throw upon them,
but throw ourselves as far as possible into the situation of
those whohave been placed in any extraordinary positions,
under circumstances of which they have had no expe-
rience whatever. The noble earl says that he is dis-
posed to treat Lord Canning with tenderness. But
I ask that the conduct of Lord Canning may stand or
fall by its own merits, after a full investigation of all
the circumstances. After this the noble earl went lot°,
very great detail of facts more or less bearing again"
Lord Canning. No one is more expert than the noble earl
in examining blue books, and picking out from them the
kernel of what may suit his purpose. But in this installs! e
I think the noble earl has had recourse to a certain Is3u
pamphlet rather than to blue books. He says that Lord
Canning did nothing to stop the issue of greesed cartridges'
How was this knowledge acquired? Again, the noble earl
says that all this ought to have been found out long bal.".
by Lord Canning. Why, the noble earl himself is reported -
to have expressed himself in terms which showed he 8u1:: •
posed that these troubles were coming to a close. But,judging from past events, the noble earl is not justified,'"
saying that Lord Canning has behaved with too greet col;
menoy towards the troops that have mutinied. It "
proved a most fortunate thing that these mutinies have
taken place from time to time, and not simultaneousAt
for then it would have been almost impossible to deal with
them. But I think it is quite fair to contend that severe
measures at the outset would have been more fatal than:
mild ones. It is all very well to talk of energy ard deter
ruination, but it is no joke to disband so large
this was, whilst so small a body of men was at the disP°°ll
of Lord Canning. With respect to the somewhat personae
attack that has been made upon the President of personas
Board of Control (Mr. V. Smith), I rather expect, uP Titheln
quiry, to find that it is quite unfounded ; but even i
•
noble earl has been rightly informed, and the right isn't
gentleman's knowledge of the geography of Delhi was
fault, I cannot forgot that a noble earl (the Earl of Ellen__
borough) opposite, who has enjoyed the advantage of beef
in India, and knows the country well, once made a Me"
body a,
singular proposition with regard to the siege of Delhi-3 io
The Earl of ELLENBOROUG a (interposing)
of be"te
state that what I did say was that the tupplY of v"
to
should be cut off from I)elhi some three weeks previous
the commencement of the siege. noble
Earl GRANVILLE—Even then, however, the f
earl seemed to forgot that there would be a
water in the wells of the city, to say nothing of the rive
Jumna itself. Furiher, neglect has been imputed to her
Majesty's Government in not sending out troops to India.,_
in greater numbers, and more rapidly. But I believe that
in no instance in the history of the world has so large
body of troops, amounting to nearly 36,000 men, been cod
on such a journey, and, as far as we know, in such gootei
quantity oer
health, considering the climate. It has been said that Yr
ought to have ea loci out the whole militia of the country,
and have sent oat these troops earlier by the route of the
overland mail. But there were no details upon which we
could entirely rely so as to secure vessels for conveying
Bible to have secured a sufficient number for the purpose.
troops down the Red Sea ; and it would have been impose
Besides which, it was impossible to make the passage at
this time of the year without the greatest injury to ,the
health of the troops. The noble earl (the Earl of Derby)
then asked another question, namely, whether her Ma-
j esty'a Government hal any measures to propose with re-
spect to India, and he offered the Government some advice
on that subject. The noble earl said it was the wish of her
alatelloabfvrioomus
ftoollybowuirbgltohalastlaaidpvsicteh. at I ntohinpkubblioc
Majesty's Government merely and solely to peas a measure
for indemnifying the Bank proprietors. But I think it will
d
could arise from our meeting for a short time before Christ-
mae; to open the whole business of the session during that.
short sitting. Such a course would not be very convenient
to the public or Parliament, and I think it would be 122°r_
nu wise. Therefore, I can assure the noble earl that it is
not our intention to do so during this sitting of erParlia-
ment, and that we shall reserve it till the meeting of
the
Par-
liament after Christmas, to enter into the whole of
Indian question fully, and, I hope, satisfactorily.
to
The Earl of DERBY (interrupting) was understood
say he did not ask for any details of particular
measure
but whether Government was prepared with any
on the subject.
"d
—With re-
Earl GRANVILLE, in continuation, sat P goodu
ic couldgoo
this moat important subject must form the ground
0! 57..,d
gird to India, the Government, while they though:, t_hsneit.
gas considers ion in Parliament, considered they u°..."0`3.,
reserve themselves till February, when this great
_clf"ous
tion must be discussed. The noble earl has spoken °
res—
or two points in connection with this subject. With
to the question of Christianity, I believe it ilsoulegaet
misunderstood. I remember the noble earl expressed
a private
missionary societies. Lord Canning
wrote
• institution=Lne
alarm last session at Lord Canning having subscribed to
letter, stating that ho bad subscribe to certain
i
sees eo
—one being a Bible Society—the object of w
uages
and
translate the Bible into the different native 1
lesley and some others of the most eminent g°
stating that therein he only followed the exaavmne
ribed to Dr.
rel. Another instance was that he had subsbc
st and Wei
Duff's school in Calcutta—one of the very ere. ee per.
tolerant schools in all India. Lord Canning
nem
business
feetly admitted that a governor-general haU.t,
or psrsinte
whatever to exercise either power, or authata
rd to his
grinleoroef-g\eVneel:
sion for purposes of proselytism ; but, with r gan
right tQ subscribe to a school, he joined issue,
nset. w""
I notld
be ba deterred from continuing his subsaniptio
the Government using anything
like compulsion,
an t 1..
• to be
Have nothing is so fatal to the Christian religion ituseAls,
most monstrous that our religion should continue e
degraded —therefore it is clear, I think,
.ee of the
Government should not interfere . with the re
(H.)
snected, while they allowed universal tole.
1 alluded is.one of *
Another point to which the nobis!ear
natives, they should cause the Christian religiontltetlig.l t beee-
those who have muti-
ment to be administered to some o
ted the most fright-
hom have perpetra
Lied, and some of wnoble 0
ranch of what the earl says
I enormities. Now, iu
very painful character—l mean with regard to the punish-
.si
lord— that in anything like the
join is u 0 with the noblehme we should recollect our Chris-
administration of punishment I egree ; but I think it • mportant also—and there I must
as
a civilised nation, we should talc°
than character, a•ad,
should never approach anything
miserable heathens we
) Let the punts iment be swift—let 1
like torture. (
Ifearr. Gost's sake, lot us be careful of the
the greatest possible care that in our punishment of those
be open—but, fo
) Wills • dto what th ble lord
stated—that he should support the Government trOt
oational questions—l do not doubt it; for, when national
character of it. (Rear.regard
questions are really to be dealt with, all parties unite as
nto ward Off national disasters. Therefore, r
0110 ma
I
grateful to the noble earl for the remarks he has
have only now to say I feel obliged to him for giving too'
Government notice of th© course he will pursue. (11eltrei_
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH observed that the
noble earl who had jest sat down hail never yet given
'cerement in bringing forward any measuntre respect ing
dia in the present ROSSiOO. The noble earl told them it
information to the house as to the inteions ot the
'
would occupy a groat deal of their time. Of course is
would ;but it must be the intention qt Government to
bring forward some measure in the course of the cession.
He asked the noble earl distinctly had the Government
any such measure prepared or not?
Earl GRA.NVILLE—I have stated quite clearly that it
is not my intention to answer that particular question. I
have stated that after Christmas it is the intention of her
Majesty's Ministers most fully to explain their views. h
After an observation from the Earl of D.1111131', which
was not distinctly heard in the gallery,
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH again rose and said
Under the circumstances it was not for him to wake ;°,711
lengthened observations as to whether Government might
iuteud or not at some future period to bring forward
.h-rt
measure; but this ho would say, that though he Inita.
not be supposed to be generally favourable to the
two.
cures of the present Government, or towards
thethatP
Court
of the administration which was conducted
not aware of
of Directors, he must frankly admit
be w 47 the Court of
anything having occurred ou the part 01
Directors since the commencement of the part
which showed that degree of obstruction on .
would
which
of the court or of the present system .
slation ; end
makes it necessary to proceed to early legs.
n.
__it) to
therefore it appeared to him a most inconvenient
own? 'of
direct a general question upon the civil govcrtih
all t
their
great owpiro when they were struggling S
ly
tie more to
moans to reconquer that empire. He had Ist e
h stated
these mutinies
say, except that so early as the 19th of May , tat
in
that house that it would be satisfactory if, conside !uts
ss,t
information recently received from India, the Governorefe,
would state what measures they iutended to adopt with
gard to the Indian army. The noble lord at the head_.oes
the War Department then stated that no such alsPr°;ien
sinus existed in the minds of the Government, and 5.0 t.
that in the course of five weeks recruits would
He (Lord Ellenborough) asked the number. The Sbeoere3tel
for War replied 4,000 and 4 regiments, but that it wae.P
convenient to send the troops before June on accootr
the unhealthy season. Now ho (Lord Ellenboroueli) re-
ferred from that that 8,000 men would be transported he
tween the second week in June and the 23d June ;
felt it was not for him to press for more than thaotAssossusr:
once at that time. But not ono man left the shores
Flo -V'l-1..6„,
land in those 5 weeks, and they only loft in the fonleu:rell
5 weeks. Not a man went before the Ist of July, L
5 weeks. He was so constantly thinking upon theo 19r vof
between 600 or 700 men were sent, but there wii:asluo.ss_stt
that, having left London for the country after_
troops
that the vessels carrying _
tart' for War, suggesting
under the directiooo
to Cl iaa should be stopped and placed
a that he should ve'd'
May, be wrote a private mete to the noble lord the. Sacra'
of the Governor-General, and direCilrobdo
so ;
d if thi)oo
for them if he thought in.cosaLr
Ynt for by the Governor'
troops had gone and had beenst.
General, how different would have been our position ill