The Sun.
London, England, 1861-02-23 00:00:00

SECOND READINGS.

The following bills were read a second time :—Dumfries,
Lochmaben, and Lockerby Junction Railway ; Dartmouth
and Torbay Railway; Esk Valley Railway; Glasgow
(City) Life Assurance Company; Weston-super-Mare
Gas, and South Essex Water.
THE TIPPERARY MILITIA ARTILLERY.
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE rose to call the atten-
tion of the house to a proposal for forming a brigade of
Royal Artillery. In bringing the subject forward he did
not do so with any feeling of hostility to the Government
or to the authorities at the Horse Guards, but
merely with a view of setting himself right with their lord-
ships. Having mentioned the circumstances that led to
the embodiment of the Tipperary Militia Artillery, and re-
marked upon the high state of discipline to which it had
arrived, the noble lord proceeded to say that, in
the year 18.59 a rumour got abroad that it was the intention to
add considerably to the Royal Artillery; he thought it might
be considered highly probable that a body of disciplined
men might be acceptable to the Government. He wrote
to the authorities suggesting that the Tipperary Militia
.rihould be accepted and transferred into the regular regi-
ments of the line. He thought then, and he still thought,
that the claims, of the officers, should the proposed
arrangement_ be carried into effect, ought not to
be. overlookef He therefore proposed that a certain
number of commissions be given to regiments of the line,
not the Royal Artillery—(" Hear, hear," from the earl
of derby)—and he wished their lordship; to particularly
recollect that—should be granted to than in
consideration
of the ;tnuisfor of the men. After a correspondence the
arrangements failed. Subsequently he proposed to the
Commander-in-Chief, at the wish of the officers, that
the Government should accept the services of the officers
and men together as a regiment of the Line. In the corre-
spondence it would be observed, that it had never been pro-
posed that commissions in the Royal Artillery should be
given to officers, of the militia. 'After a lapse of time he
heard that it was proposal to incorporate the men with
the Royal Artillery, and give commissions to
the officers in the same regiments. He heard
with surprise of the determination ; but although he took
no. active steps in the matter, he was told that
the matter had been decided at the War •offiee.
Up to this time he had made no public
announcement of the negotiations he knew were
going on, but when he Vas told that the thing was
settled, he mentioned the • offer to the regiments. at
was at once accepted, and preparations were made
for the altering of the uniform of the men, when an order
was received that the noble lord at the head of the War
Department had abandoned his intention. He had never
broken any promise he had made either to officers or
men during the time he had had the honour to com-
mand the regiments, and the altered determination of the
War-office placed him in a very humiliating position, and
he cotid not but sincerely regret that the arrangement that
had at one time been looked upon as settled had not been
fully carried out.

Lord HERBERT said he had certainly no cause to com-
plain either of the noble lord's motion or of the terms and
tone of his speech. When the offer was made to convert
the regiment of the Tinerary Militia into a brigade of the
Royal Artillery, he frankly stated to his noble friend the
difficulty in which he was placed, and which would oblige
diim to abandon the scheme under consideration. He con-
fessed he had heard for the first time that night, that his
noble friend never contemplated that his officers should
belong to the Royal Artillery. He would refer him to his
letter of 185 Q, which, although it might certainly admit of
an interpretation consistent with his speech, that interpre-
tation—he said it on his honour—never before occurred to
him. His Royal Highness the Commander-in-Chief, to
whom the letter was first sent, read it as he did, and was
doubtful whether it would be right to give the officers artil-
lery commissions, lest it should 'create discontent. Of the
men themselves he could speak in the highest terms of com-
mendation ; for, being at Chatham on one occasion, and
observing how free their conduct-book was of any traces
of crime, he inquired whether that arose from laxity of
discipline, or from really good conduct, and he was highly
gratified at being informed that it was the latter. (Hear,
hear.) Circumstances rendered it necessaryto recur to the
proposition, and a negociation was entered into with a
view to determine the nature of the examination which the
militia officers should undergo previous to entering into the
artillery. There were some differences of opinion on the
subject, but he felt he could not be justified in lowering the
degree of the examinations, which ought necessarily to re-
late to artillery service and artillery duties. The proposition
could not eventually be entertained, for it would have given
rise to the most dangerous jealousy on the part of a talented,
highly qualified and susceptible body of men, some of whom
returning home after distinguished service in China, might
have found themselves commanded by an officer of the Tip-
perary Militia. Under these circumstances he felt that
they had made a blunder in going so far as they did, and
they preferred to avow it rather than endanger the public
service. With regard to the noble lord's suggestion, that
their decision was founded on the resistance of the officers
of the service, he could only say that the statement was
altogether erroneous. The regiments were about to be dis-
embodied, and he was desirous of securing that body of
men. He then referred to a letter he had received from the
noble lord opposite, after which ho put himself in commu-
nication with the Commander-in-Chief. Ile (Lord Her-
bert) felt that he had injured the prospects of the officers,
and he was anxious to make them any reparation in his
power, and the men who wished would be received into
other regiments. He had now stated the whole of the case
as far as required by the noble lord opposite. (Hear, hear.)
The Duke of CAMBRIDGE said he was quite ready to
takehis share Of the resporisibility which fell to the Secre-
tary of Stift.' 'The Secretary of State communicated to
him that there was hot a sufficiency of artillery at home.
On, the Ist of April the•militia were to be disembodied,
and he had made up his mind that if this admirable body
of men could be added to the Artillery, he was satisfied it
would be of great advantage to the public service. There
were GOO or 70(1 men, well trained, and fit to be sent to
any part of the United Kingdom. His Royal Highness
then read a document from Major-General Eyre, setting
forth the admirable conduct of the men of the Tipperary
Artillery, and their cheerful obedience to their officers, and
that it would ba a great loss if such a body of men could
not be retained. Seeing, therefore, how well these men
had cpnducted themselves, he was of opinion it would be a
greet advantage that such a body of well-trained men
could be added to the artillery service, as they were in
want of batteries in several parts of tho United Kingdom.
The arrangement was, however, given up, and he was ready
to say that he had no desire to interfere with the practice
that the officers of the Artillery should be well educated
for their important duties. Still, in the case of the Tip •
perary Artillery ho was very desirous of securing the ser-
vices of eo fine 'a body of men. Ile was bound to say that
th 4 Officers'of tbiit •regi'rnent, -received the disappointment
with the utmost good temper.
After a few words from the Earl of DONOVGIIIIOItE in
reply, the subject cliepped.
CHURCH RATES.

. .
The Duke. of MARLBOROUGH, in rising to call the
attention of the house to the law relating to church rates,
said he thought their lordships would agree with him in
thinking that it was now high time to endeavour to devise
some plan by Which this long-vexed question might be
brought to a satisfactory conclusion. (Hear, hear.) The
committee of. their lordships' house appointed the session
before lest had given great attention to the subject; and
although there had been but little time for considering
the evidence laid before them, and the conclusions which
they had founded upon it, still it was satisfactory to know
that it had, been the . means of directing a large amount
fa public attention to the question. Its influence on the
public mind, also, was seen in the fact that it had mate
rially affected • the majority in the other house, upon
the bill for the total abolition of church rates.
lie might staternie'thing that Came out before the com-
mittee el that heuee which was that doing away with
church. ti...._tes:woUld •bi a great injury to the Church.
After` referring tei.other portictns -of the evidence, he said
a t after the dediston their lordships had already come to
his- question,-lie thought he might arrive at the con
*sten that their fordshipi would not give their sanction
to any bill for the entire abolition of church rates. As to
th"biection entertained h"3, the Dissenters, it was not
• thiach.to the amount of the rate they objected as to the
°PPramilaiii**tifting from being brought into the Eccle-
sititic"C"lrta•- The noble duke then referred to the evi-
dense et ,r,j4 •
?fin-Smith before their lordships' corn-
to say-Alit:la:el"' 'et-
niltr he read at length. He proceeded
taken; oni of the vertm Prottese that the power should be
the asdtical Court as regarded enforcing
ferreqYZl:TorLn.7,, that the power should be trans-
ferred tt!! In the settlement of this
:merelief should be given
as riOgaided Itai to Person Who objected to pay. The
siobM duke the'n rtfeired t(; tlis; sal* which had already
been made for the settlement ort7'f'qutestion, and said he .
would deal ie litei:l3staarx9, first leaving the
jore,
no church
it steed. at` power, i iplriehtif
itlooasleteray-w
local
present time. Than,
en hrtreh rate had
been levied/or-Aim years, 'the ehurchwardewetly! put the
question. fovtiry pariehienev whether they w
narnesi iitk d beruc off :the registsi having tirelied 'Their
vote hi the:ease .ots 'church 'rate's; rand those who wishedTightto
their-namess Wonkl. exempted from thipay
'tient of church' Wes-- for the, fitihre. 'Ho would' ' -
PtoPose
this arrangemenb in 'theetbill which he would lay on their .
lOrdsuiPat tab/e, gaud kti-hopd WoriM be:x*ll:4Mo In
. • 1