The Sun.
London, England, 1857-12-09 00:00:00

SUN OFFICE, Six o' Clock.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—(This Day.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR tuok his seat on the woolsack
at three o'clock.
BANK ISSUES INDEMNITY BILL.

This bill was 1 rought up from the CCiaucionsEtrid read
a first time.

Earl GREY said he understood that only one discus-
sion ‘911,4 to be taken on this subject, and as the bill was
to be read a second time to-morrow, and a third time on
Friday, it would be very convenient if the noble earl
would fix a precise day for the debate.
Earl GRANVILE said either day would be conve-
nient for the Government. If it would suit those noble
lords who were absent he would take the discussion on
Friday.

The Eirl of EGLINTON said it was impossible for
him to say whether that day would suit peers on his side
of the house.

It was ultimately agreed that the discussion should bo
taken on Friday.

Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(This Day.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock.
_ SIR HENRY HAVELOCK.

Mr. FITZROY brought up the report on the message
from her Majesty conferring a pension of 1,0001. a-year
for life on Sir Henry Havelock.
Colonel NORTH considered the Government should
extend this pension to General Havelock's son. Cap-
tain Havelock had much distinguished himself during
this revolt. He had gone through all the battles in
which his father bad been engaged, and had obtained
the Vict ria Cross for his valour in the field. This was
a case calling loudly for a departure from the usual rule
followed in granting such pensions. In the case of
peerages the pensions usually extended to two genera-
tions, and he hoped that the peculiar circumstances of
Ciptain Havelock would be considered by the Govern-
ment, and provision made that the pension now awarded
to hi., distinguished and gallant father should descend to
his sou.

Mr. BAGWELL concurred in the suggestions just
inale, and hoped the Government would extend the
pen,ion to his son's life.

Mr. KINNAIRD had much pleasure in seconding
the suggestion now made. He regretted that yesterday
so little allusion was made to the distinguished services
of two brothers—the Lawrences. (Hear, hear.) One
had gone where honours were of no avail, but he thought
it was the duty of a grateful country to raise a monument
to the memory of the late Sir H. Lawrence. (Rear.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said he partook of the sympathy,
admiration, and: gratitude thatl pervaded all classes of
her Majesty's subjects relative to the conduct of our
army in India, but at the same time he ventured to
suggest the Inexpediency of their endeavouring to put
a restraint on their feelings in the matter. (Hear, hear.)
Nothing was more imprudent than that it shculd be left
to the Crown and the Executive Government the func,
lion of rewarding distinguished services without being
anticipated by members of the house. He asked the
house to recollect how much it took from the acts of
grace when taken by the Government if first suggestea
by individual members of Parliament. (Hear, hear.)
He fully admitted the duty of the house to call the
Executive Government to account if they were in the
discharge of their rewards, but here was a case, he
humbly thought the Goverment should be left a latitude
and discretion as to the time and opportunity of doing
what the Crown thought right.
C ilonel NORTH said he had not the slightest intention
in the remarks he had made in reflecting on her Ma-
je•ty's Government, but merely to support a suggestion
thrown out by an hon. member last night.
Sir M. FARQUHAR considered Captain Havelock
was entitled to the consideration of the house, and he
hoped the Government would allow the pension to
descend with the title to him. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. BALL also concurred in the remarks made by
previous speakers relative to the extension of the pension
from General Havelock to his son.
Sir J. PAKINGTON complained of tha absence of the
President of the Board of Control from the house when
the question of General Havelock's pension was to come
before it. He thought the remarks of the right hon. gen-
tleman the member for Oxford University were worthy of
consideration, but he expressed a hope that his observa-
tions would not have a tendency to check on the part of
Lon. members those expressions of feelings which did
honour to tho house with regard to the great services per-
formed in India as did honour to the officers who performed
them. It gave to the army the most legitimate assnrance
that their services were esteemed by a grateful country
by declarations in that house on the part of the represen-
tatives
of the country. (Hear.) He felt convinced that
the discussion of last night and to-day would be received
in India with feelings of gratitude and pride, and would be
held by those distinguished men as one of their highest
rewards for the services they rendered. He quite con-
curred with what had fallen from hon. members in refer-
euce
to the continuation of th 4 pension to General Have-
lock's
son. (Hear, hear.) He wished now to put a ques:
tion to the President of the Board of Control relative to
the " Clive Fund." In 1765 the great Lord Clive, on se- ,
ceiving a legacy from Meer Jalliier of 70,0031., iu a noble
spirit generously paid the same into the Calcutta troasury.
Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY called the right hon b Ironet to
order. He could not, in considering the Message in refer-
ence to General Havelock's pension, introduce a different
subject._ _ _

The SPEAKER ruled that the rigbt hon. baronet was
out of order.

Sir J. PAKINGTON considered that in supply ho was
entitled to pursue the course he was adopting when inter-
rupted.

The SPEAKER reminded the right bon. baronet that
the house was not in supply, molding to the ordinary
rules of the house.

Mr. V SMITH complained of the manner in which the
right hon. baronet had alluded to his temporary absence
from the house, especially as he had been engaged waiting for
an Indian telegram. He remarked on the impropriety of
hon. members bringing forward charges of improper
patronage on the pact of the Court of Directors, without
entering into particuiars.As the right hon. baronet was
out of order, he would not proceed further than to read
the telegram. (The right hon, gentleman then raad
the telegram, which will be found in another part, of our
impression.)
After some remarks from Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, the
message was read a second time and agreed to, and a bill
was ordered to be introduced accordingly.
SUPPLY.
_ _

Mr. FITZROY brought up the report of supply.
Sir J. NGTON said he hoped he was now in
order to put the question ho intended to have done when
he was called to order. With regard to the "Clive fund,"
he read a notice of the queeticn on Monday, but if the
right hon. gentleman wished it he would give further time.
Peculiar interest was now felt with reference to the fund,
now that a fund was being raised for the relief of the
sufferers by the mutiny in India. In 1765, Lord Clive
paid into the Calcutta treasury a legacy of 70,000/ , the
interest of which was to be devoted to the relief of officers
and soldiers disabled in India, and the wives and families
of Europeans who might die in the company's services. He
wished to be informed of the present state and condition of
the fund. He wished to be informed as a piece of infor•
mation he had seen in the newspapers, viz., with regard
to the patronage of the Court of Directors for 1838. He
then found it stated that 110 infantry cadets were to be
sent in 1858 to the Bengal Native army, and that a con-
siderable number of cavalry cadets were also to be sent
out for the same year, and he wished to know the state
and condition of that army. He believed that 46 native
regiments have mutinied, and 2 been disbanded. Assum-
ing that to be the case, he wished to know what had be-
come of the 1,100 officers belonging to them. Deducting a ,
proportion for deaths, and those holding civil offices, he I
thought there must be between 600 and 700 officers wholly
unemployed. Ho put it to the hon. gentleman, if, under
the circumstances, the present time was a fitting period
for exercising such an amount of patronage.
Mr. V. S XITEI said he was unable thn to answer the
question relative to the " Clive Fund." With regard to
the second question, he gave to the Earl of Clarendon yes-
terday the particulars, to enable him to give an answer to
a question put in the other house by the Earl of Ellen-
borough. He had not, therefore, the paper with him, but
he would state that he was afraid the right hon. baronet
had not given a correct estimate of the amount of officers
lost. The appointment of cadets rested with the Court of
Directors, subject to the Board of Control ; but it was a
matter in which they rarely if ever interfered. The num-
ber of cadets appointed for 1858 was not sufficient to sup-
ply the vacancies that existed. It must not be considered
that, when they spoke of disbanding native troops, the
Indian Government intended to govern India without na-
tive troops, and although the estimate of the Court of Direc-
tors did not amount to much more than one-half of the-
native troops. Formerly the number of cadets appointed
would not be too many to supply the loss. It should also
be remembered that the officers unemployed referred to
were of a higher grade than cadets. The appointments
would not be made for the sake of patronage merely, but
to meet the requirements of the army. The officers now
out of employment it was proposed to use in officering the
cavalry about to be raised in this country.
Sir J. PAKINGTON asked the number of troops that
had mutinied and beendisbandei.

kr. V. SMITH said he was unable to give an answer.
The subject then dropped.
INDIA.

In reply to questions from Sir H. Willoughby and Mr.
G. Hudson,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER complained
of the inconvenience arising from the putting of questions
in an irregular form. He said he hafil no doubt the ap-
proximate estimates of the expenses that would be thrown
upon the Indian revenue by the troops sent out would be
laid on the table. The army estimates would be eomewhat
increased by the same cause ; hut the amount would
ultimately be borne by the East India Company, the in-
crease being in the nature of au advance. The Company
wore not now in a position to repay such advances with
any great regularity; but he reminded the house that
India had never been.a burthen upon this country. The
revenue of India was now in a crippled state, and it might
he necessary for the Company to apply ,to that house fm-
temporary assistance, hat not, he hoped, to a formidable
exttnt, as the Company's revenues would ehortly be suffi-
cient to meet a large part of the expense, and from its re-
stored credit borrow what it required to supply the defi-
ciency.

The motion was then agreed to.
ARMY AND NAVY ESTIMATES.
Mr. WILSON moved for a return of the estimates of
expenditure required for the army and navy for 1859.
Agreed to.
BANK ISSUES INDEMNITY BILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, moved
the the third reading of this bill.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY considered the house -was
passing the bill on insufficient evidence.
Mr. VANCE hoped that in changes that might be male
in the currency the Government would not alter the
standard of value.
Mr. G. HUDSON approved of the course adopted by the
Government in issuing the letter in November, though he
regretted its issue had been so lorig delayed. It should