The Sun.
London, England, 1861-02-13 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 13, 1861.

;
ference to reform in the Royal Speech mace it imperative'
on the Liberal members to take some steps towards the vin-
dication of their principles. He, as a member of that party,
felt himself bound to give notice cf the motion which he
had put upon the pap,_T, In cr&r o give the 10-Tge an oppor •
tunity of considering the important question of the fran-
chise. He agreed with the hon. member for Marylebone
in thinking that the duty of introducing that question be•
longed to the Ministers of the Crown, but if they failed in
their duty the house was bound to take measures to main-
tain its own position. (Hear.) The noble lord the member
for the city of London had a great deal to answer for, and
could urge no reasonable excuse for his conduct, There
were no peculiar circumstances eoLnected with the present
session such as occurred in the last to prevent a Reform
Bill being introduced, and the calm which prevailed was
peculiarly favourable to the consideration of such a measure.
The noble lord had told them last session that a time of
peace was a fitting time to carry a Reform Bill, and con-
trasted the period of the riots at Nottingham with the
peacefulness and loyalty of the present time, which he
thought gave a good opportunity of introducing his measure.
They all remembered the lines of Canning in the " Anti-
Jacobin "
" Now these and more, a phrenzied choir,
Sweep with bold hands confusion's lyre ;
While madding crowds around them storm
For one great radical reform."
(Hear, hear.) The very contrast of the present to those
times indicated that now was a fitting opportunity for
dealing with a measure of reform, and after having been
six times announce in royal speeches, and after a Parlia-
mentary history of 15 years, he could not help thinking
that it was time this important question was disposed of.
(Hear, hear.) He had put a notice for a bill on the paper,
but the hon. member for Leeds having given notice of a
motion on tho same evening, he had thought it right to give
way to one holding so high a position in the country and
.possessing so much more experience than himself. (Hear,
hear.)
Mr. MACKINNON wished to correct a mistake made
by an hon. member in a former debate with respect to his
motion of last Session.
The SPEAKER informed the hon. member that it was
out of order to refer to that debate at all, unless on a mat-
ter of personal explanation.
Mr. MACKINNON would bow to the ruling of the chair.
It had, however, been said that he had been put forward
by the Government to oppose reform last Session. Now,
upon his honour, as a gentleman and a member of that
house, he had no communication, direct or indirect, with
the noble lord at the head of the Government before oppos-
ing that bill. (A laugh.) Nor had he any communication
either with the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs or
any other member of the Government. He might be asked
why be took it upon himself, not being in office, to oppose
the Reform Bill of last Sessiou. He happened to be chair-
man of a committee which sat for two or three Sessions to
inquire into the best mode of settling disputes between
masters and operatives. This inquiry gave him an oppor-
tunity of knowing the feelings of the middle and lower
classes on the subject of Parliamentary reform. The middle
classes were jealous of such a bill, fearing that their power
would be swamped by the lower classes, while the working
men, who it was said would be enfranchised by the £6
franchise, were totally indifferent to the measure of the
noble lord. (Hear, hear.) He, therefore, thought it right
to oppose the bill, and the attitude both of the middle and
lower classes since the withdrawal of the bill had convinced
him that he had come to a sound conclusion. (Hear, hear.)
If the noble lord had brought in a bill this year,' he would
have acted in an injudicious and imprudent manner in
going against the feelings of the middle classes and the
perfect apathy of the lower classes. (Hear.)
Leave was then given to bring in the bill, which was
read a first time.
COUNTY RATES AND EXPENDITURE.

Sir J. TRELAWNY moved for leave to bring in a bill

to establish county financial boards for the assessing of
county rates, and for the administration of county expen-
diture in England and Wales.

Sir J. PAKINGTON said that he felt bound to oppose
the motion.

Sir G. C. LEWIS said this subject had already been
referred to a select committee, and underwent a strict in-
vestigation, and ho believed the magistrates of coun-
ties were anxious to promote economical finan-
cial administration in their respective localities.
However, he would not oppose the motion; but,
at the same time, he did not think that any benefit would
result from referring the subject to a select committee, as
he understood the hon. baronet proposed.

The motion was then agreed to, and leave given to brißg
in the bill.

OFFICES HELD BY MEMBERS.

Mr. WRITE did, not believe that any objection existed
to the production of his return, which the hon. gentleman
moved as follows :—" Return by every member of this
house holding any civil, military, naval, diplomatic, or
other place, officers, or pension to which he has been nomi-
nated or appointedby the Crown, Government, Ministers,
or chiefs of departmenti ; stating the date of his nomination
or appointment and the emoluments he receives, and
whether the same be temporary, permanent, or progressive."
Sir G. C. LEWIS said it was his duty to oppose the mo-
tion. The hon. member had not stated any ground why he
desired that the return should be made. There was this ob-
jection—that the information. soughtfor by the hon. member
was already accessible, and that he proposed to incur unne-
cessary trouble and expense in preparing and printing it.
With regard to all civil and political offices held by mem-
bers, the salaries were voted by the house, and could be
seen by any one who would refer to the Estimates. With
respect to the military officers their ply could be easily
ascertained. He understood that their salaries stood on a
different footing from the salaries of civil servants, as in
mostcases they had been the subject of purchase. He could
not see any advantage that would arise from hying on
the table a return of the pay received by military officers in
that house. The same remark applied to naval officers, and
so with respect to diplomatic servants, their pay could be
known by reference to the finance accounts. Under
these circumstances he could not see any advantage in hav-
ing this return presented to the house. It appeared only to
be wanted in order to save trouble to the hon. gentleman,
who, instead of referring to the different sources of infor-
mation, desired that the clerks in the public offices should
make out the return for him. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WHITE said that in moving for the return he had
not thought it necessary to adduce any arguments in favour
of the motion, but he considered the reasons assigned by
the right hon. gentleman for refusing the return most un-
satisfactory, In reply to the imputation that he made the
motion in order to save himself trouble, he might observe
that his constant attendance in that house showed that he
did not grudge any amount of trouble which he thought
might be attended with advantage to his constituents.
(Hear.) The right hon. gentleman had stated that the de-
sired information could be obtained from documents already
on the table, but the same remark was applicable to almost
every return ilhich was granted. He would not say that
the votes of members of that house were influenced by
being connected with the Government, but some people,
when once in office, seemed to ovine) a total oblivion of all
their former principles. With regard to military and naval
officers, the small stipends they received for their services
appeared almost like ingratitude on the part of the nation
—(hear, hear)—and, looking to the scale of personal eX-
penditure in these modern times, no man could say that the
Ministers were overpaid ; but there were cases of mon in
the civil service who received pay and did little or no work
for it, and it would be satisfactory to the country to obtain
a return as regards those men.

Lord R. CECIL said that if the house divided on the
motion he should vote with the right hon. gentleman the
Home Secretary. Still he hardly thought it prudent for
the Government to refuse this return. A short time ago
the hon. member for Birmingham accused all on that (the
Opposition) side of the house of receiving more from the
taxes than they paid. The charge was ridiculous, but
nevertheless it was believed by some of the simple ad-
mirers before whom the honourable member spoke,
and therefore it was desirable that every opportunity should
be afforded for the public mind to be rendered clear on this
point. (Hear, hear.) If the return were granted, it would
be seen that, besides officers in the army and navy, and
persons holding political offices—all of whom the hon.
gentleman admitted to be underpaid—there was scarcely any
member in that house receiving anything from the public.

Mr. HADFIELD thought that the noble lord had stated
enough to induce the hou e to order the return, and in
case of a division he should take a different course from
that which the noble lord announced it to be his intention
to pursue, and should support the motion.

Mr. BASS trusted the noble lord would not discredit his
admirable speech by giving a negative to the motion.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CONINGHAM said that the hon. member for Bir-
mingham, in alluding to the receipt of public money by cer-
tain persons, referred not to members of that house alone,
but to their friends, relations, and followers ; and the in-
tense violence of the contests for the possession of the
Ministerial benches arose from the knowledge that they
were contentions for the division, not only of political
power, but of the enormous patronage at the disposal of the
occupants of the Treasury benches. Seeing how the pre-
sent Government was constituted, he was not surprised at
the determined resistance offered to the production of this
return, for the Treasury benches were wholly occupied by
the most exclusive clique that ever ruled the destinies of
this country. He was surprised that the Home Secretary
should refuse a plain statement of facts, from which the
country:might learn how the taxes, raised from the hard-
working classes, were divided among the posseeurs of
places and their followers. Both sides of the house resisted
any attempt to reform the institutions of the country, be-
cause it was felt that as soon as the franchise should be
largely extehded an end would be put to abuses and to the
wasteful manner in which the people's money was squan-
dered.

The house then divided—
For the motion
Against it
Majority
The motion was therefore lost.
UNIVERSITY ELECTIONS.

Mr. DODSON, in moving for leave to bring in a bill to
provide that votes at elections for the Universities might be
recorded by means avoting papers, said A would embody

clauses Which he pit on the paper last year, as amendments
in committee on the Reform Bill, and he did not anticipate
any opposiicn, as it would leave it optional for voters to
transmit written papers or to poll personally, whichever
they preferred. With r^opret to the machinery of the bill,
it would be as simple as possible compatible with pr3tection
against mistake and fraud.
The motion was agreed to, and the bill was subsequently
brought in and read a. first time,

got out the hose and also the fire engine, which is
always kept ready at the prison, and succeeded in'
extinguishing the flames. Numerous bands of
convicts then proceeded to destroy every article
within the prison on which they could lay their
lands,va:uab!r, ciccL::; being smashed, and several
costly, " noctaries," which are used at night to
register the visits of the warders, being smashed
to atoms. Searcely a pane of glass was left whole
in the prison, the most terrible havoc being corn•
mated on everything ' which came in the way of
the infuriated ruffians. The large stove placed in
the', centre of the building for the purpose of
warming the prison was turned bodily over, and
much injured. The amount of damage done is
estimated at £lOOO.

As soon as it was ascertained that all hope of
restoring 'order, without the assistance of the mili-
tary was at an end, messengers were dispatched to
the garrison for a strong body of troops, and also
to the dockyard for the Metropolitan police and the
guard always on duty at that establishment. Im-
mediately on receiving the order, a strong body of
.police, under the direction of Inspector Pethers,
quickly proceeded to the prison. A party of the
Royal iljtarines who happened to be engaged in
rifle firing Lear the prison, also proceeded to the
convict establishalent, under. the command of Major
Rodney, On receipt of the order for the military
at the garrison, a body of 400 of the Royal Marines
the 4th and 35th Companies of the Royal
Engineers, together with upwards of 500 troops of
the Line, were quickly despacthed to the prison ;
Colonel Jervis, Colonel Harness, C. 8., and the
other principal officers of the garrison, also pro-
ceeding there to direct the operations of the soldiers.
Each of the troops had with him 10 rounds of ball
cartridges. On the arrival of the military at the
prison a considerable time was permitted to elapse
before they were allowed to enter, the reason for
which could not be understood, especially as it was
evident from the ripise and uproar, which could be
distinctly heard outside, that the mutineers were in
full possession of the prison. After some time the
military were allowed to enter, wain several hun-
dred men were ordered to charge the riot.e7 within
the prison, about 300 of the troops being judiciu2slY
posted outside to prevent any of the convicts escap-
ing. The moment the convicts caught sight of the
soldiery they set up the most fearful yells. and chal-
lenged them with oaths. to " Come on," The order
was then given to charge the convic.s, the keepers
driving the prisoners before them with their trun-
cheons, which they used with great effect. The
troops continued to drive the prisoners before them,
but no attempt was made to fire on them, although
the soldiers repeatedly requested their officers to be
allowed to do so. In a very short time after the
arrival of the military the whole of the convicts had
been driven into their cells, where they were securely
fastened. A portion of the troops were then sent
back to their barracks, but several hundred men of
the Royal Marines, the Engineers, and the Line
remained on duty at the prison all last night, and
also to-day, in case there should bel any attempt at
another outbreak.

About forty of the ringleaders in the revolt
were seized yesterday afternoon, and, each having
been heavily ironed, the whole were chained
together and placed in one cell, with a strong
guard over them. This morning Captain Gambier,
having ascertained the names of the principal par-
ties concerned in the outrage and mutiny, directed
that 40 of them should each receive three dozen
lashes. An order was et once despatched to the
Marine barracks for the, halberds and cats, which
were immediately sent to the prison, eight of the
strongest drummers being at the same time
despatched to administer the punishment, which
was inflicted in the presence of a strong body of
troops. The whole of the convicts have been kept
confined in their cells to-day, and no repetition of
the disturbances has been attempted, a strong body
of troops being still at the prison, where they are
expected to remain to-night.