The Sun.
London, England, 1857-03-17 00:00:00

E SU N, LO N TLT ES DA_ V

when they differed with hit et (Ler 1 Lynriburee)— net P.;' i 0 the authorehip of which the nett.) earl probably
very long since rem-ea:deed the Gevernment for net ear- , keew more than he dire. _
ing interfered more in the affairs of Septa than hhey had The Eel of DERBY—I know nothing of that paper.
done. (Cheers.) The noble earl said that, leaving I 'peso r:o cocain: don v, ith it whatever.
gone through the 45 pages of the cerrespeneence on -End GPs A N [UTE did not wish to twit the noble
the tal le, he mold not 'natio anent no out cf-it. But earl with any eennectioa with the Press, but it was said
if the Government were so much to blame in tide ma'- —whether right or wrong he knew not—that elsat paper
ter, how was it that within the six weeks during wh CO t owed its circulation to being regarded as the organ of the
the House of Lords bad been sitting in ceruparon a f Conservative party, and that it received occasionally very
idleness, the noble earl nor ary of his friends had important communications from the chiefs of that party
brought the subject for eard. (Hers, hear.) How was it in reference to their political, intentions. As the noble
that the noble earl had chosen to reserve it no a vehicle earl knew—for he called the attention of their lordships to
for a few pungent sentences uttered on the eve of the the fact—these appeared in that paper what purported to
dissolution for mere election purposes. (Cheers.) If the be a speech of the noble earl's in regard to the alleged
noble earl had thought it prudent t o ed.!. attention to the coalition, in which be refers to Vie statement of his bay.
subject in a regular way, his noble friend the Secretary fia, seen Mr. Gladstone and consulted with him. The
for Foreign Affairs would have been prepared to prove noble earl was made to say that "he bad beard it stated
to their lordships that the steps taken by the Govern- that the amendment moved by the bon. member for West
meet in reference to the affairs of Naples were fully jus- Norfolk originated in a feeling of disapprobation at the
tified, that they were taken in conjunction with our ally report whims lta I been circulated of a coalition between
the Emperor of the French, that they had not oely been the party which the noble earl was proud to lead and the
justified, but rendered necessary by the state of Italy— right hen. meeeber for the University of Oxford. That
and that this result at all eteata had been prodneed, that report was totally false. He had never seen Mr. Glad-
there was scarcely a government in Europe which 1a I tone upon the subject, nett bad he ever held the
not followed up cur remonstrances by remonstrances of I slightest communication with him upon it." And,
a like character. With regard to the rest of Europa the 1 again, the article reported the noble earl to have said,
noble earl had been prudently si'ent. He had not re- speildres of coalitions, "that no one. could be more op-
peated what he or those around him asserted on one oc- posed to coalitions effected in defiance of political prin-
casion during the present session, that our relations with ciple than himself ; but that wh n members from identity
France ware loosened, and the alliance in danger. If he of sentiment were frequently drawn together to the same
had, he (Earl Granville) would have been prepared to lobby, it was impossible to doubt that a bond of political
show him that the relations between the two countries union was established which no party could refuse to
were never more firm or friendly than at this moment, acknoeledge." And, further, alluding to the fact that
and he might mention that tae last communication the the Conservative party was in a minority, said that no-
Emperor of France made to our Ambrossador at Paris thing could be more proper than that some measure
was to express the great satisfaction he felt that in China should les taken to place them in a-position tO under-
his troops would be found once more co-operating with take the Government, if called upon. (hear) Oa the
the forces of her Majesty. (Hear, hear.) Then, with I 'towing, Monday the noble earl came down to the
regard to Austria, our relations with that power were Or house, and after stating that he bad laid it down as a
the most friendly character; and though the Government personal rule never to notice any misstatements or mis-
c'aimed no merit on that account, it was nevertheless an representations in the public press of any part of his
agreeable coincidence that while our relations with public conduct, and that he then departed from that rule
Austria-were thus improving, the Emperor of Austria only from a sense of justice not so much to himself as
should bwengaged in inaugurating a more liberal system to others, said, "I refer to a report in a public news-
of government in his Italian dominions. Next with re- pap's., which was wholly unauthorised, and which could
gard to Russia, he believed both sides of the house were only have been surreptitiously obtained, of a meeting
satisfied with th 6 final arrangements entered into with said to have taken place at my house, which certainly
that power. He was entitled to infer this, inasmuch as did take place, but not at my house, and which, although
not a single word had been said from either side it bears on the face of it marks of having been furnished
against that peace which had secured all the objects by some person who was present, or by some ono who
for which we contended, In reference to the Pee. heard what passed on that occasion, is grossly inacca-
sian war, the noble earl bad confined himself to vague rate, for it states net only what I did not say, but tine
and general remarks. But in the other house the leader reverse of what I raid. Ido net intend to go into any
of the opposition had denounced that war in the strongest detailed explanation on the subject, but I only wish that
terms, declared that the demands of the Indian Govern- it may not he supposed hereafter, if reference should be
merit on the Government of Persia were based upon the made to what occurred on that occasion, that I did not
Most contemptible of motives ' • that its only justification avail myself ofthe first opportunity to protest, as I cow
was to be found in the turbulent and aggressive diplo- de, against the accuracy of that report." No doubt it
macy of the Government, and be intimated that it was was right to give that explanation. There were incen-
in some way cennected with our desire to extend cur voaiences, and those inconveniences evidently struck the
possessions in India. On a recent occasion, however, noble earl when he said it was not his habit to notice
a noble earl who sat on the same side with the noble mis-statements in the public press, and for this reason—
earl, got up. and, with ttat hoeesty which always die- he knew that in giving contradiction you invited con-
tinguished him, declared that that war was just. and tradietion from others. Accordingly, the Press in the
necessary, and that if the engagement which had been following week acknowledged its error as to the locality
given by the Shah of Persia to respect the independence of the meeting, and said that it was not at the house of
of Herat did not exist, it would be still necessary on the Lord Derby, but at the house of the Earl of Eelinton,
part of the British Government to take measures to pre- that the meeting waseheld, but added that the noble earl
vest Herat from falling icto the hands of Persia, and he admitted there had been some political conversation be-
add al " that the quarrel had not been with Persia as an tween Mr. Gladstcne and himself. And when they heard
independent power, but with Russia, under whose die- that in some small room of the House of Commons the
Wien Peteia acted. Not only were tho operations noble earl did have an interview with Mr. Gladstone and
against Herat carried on during the war with Raelia, one of his friends, the publio would be of opinion that
when they were calculated to act as a diversion, but though there might not have been a combination, a con-
they were carried on after the war with Russia had cert, cr a coalition, that there must have been something
ceased, and he took the treaty just concluded with (he would not make use of the word, but noble lords
Ferukh Khan as complemental to the treaty of Paris, would know what he meant), when they saw afterwards
and as showing that Russia for the present adjourned her that this sort of conference was followed by a decided
designs on India ; that she had reconsidered her petsi• vote for the purpose of overturning the Government.
tion, and had found that her interests demanded that The Earl of DERBY—Did you say that I bad a con:
there should be a good understanding between her aed tele:Mien privately with Mr. Gladstone and some other
England in Europe, which could never come to pass so person. with him in one of the rooms of the lime of
lone as she was carrying on operations in the direction Commons ?
of India which must be objectionable to England. lie Eal GRANVILLE—There was a very general
(Earl Granville) had no hesitation in saying teat it was rumour to that effect, but he attached no importance
by the firmnessand discretion of Lori Parnersten, aided to it. -
by the ability of Lord Clarendon, that those two tree- The Ea'lof DERBY made an observation denyinc, the
ties had been concluded, by which every question of die- truth of the statement.
putts with Russia upon those points on which the peeple Earl GRA.NVILLE- The noble lord saw the difficulty
of this country were most susceptible, and by which
consequent upon contradicting one part of* statement and
they were once more placed in a position to renew
those friendly relations with that great power which not going on to explain away the whole; and ho thought
it was ',r the interest of Europe should be main• he would see the necessity, when ho made up his mind to
tained, had been adjusted. He now came to the Chi- contradict, to explain fully, and not contradict one part,
nese question, and upon that point he should certeinle and leave it to be guessed at what might have been his
follow the example which the noble earl had set, when -conduct as to the other points which his contradiction did
he said be would avoid renewing the debate which had not emb ace. Ho (Earl Gran•ville) admitted that a coali-
already taken place in their lordships' hone° in refer. lion might be honourable to the parties and useful to the
ence to that subject. If the noble earl was satisfied with country. In regard to those members of the House of
the verdict their lordship bad by a majority double that Commons who voted against the Government on the late
occasion—ho did not allude to the Conservative members,
which delivered the adverse decision in ar el her place,
for they had a perfect right to vote as they please I—but
pronounced, and which he believed would Le ratified by he must take leave to advert to the votes of some of the
the coeatry. He would not, therefore, follow the vary most distinguished members of that house, anl say, on the
ous topics which bad been raised in the debate in boto part of his noble colleagues and himself, that they repudi-
houses, hut would merely observe, be reply to the noble ated 'entertainine the notion that thew were actuated b
earl, that neither he nor any of his coil had over other than the 'highest and moat honourable feeliney
protendebl that, when papers were presented to either though they thought they had misjudged in the decision :Ist;
112111.0 of Parliament, no opinion was to be expressed on which they came. (Cheers.) Reverting to the subject of
them. The Government did not complain of that ; but coalition, there was another coalition which he could not
wl'en a decision was pronounced in dee house of Parlia_ think justified. This also might be a subject for contra-
ment which they did not think justified by the facts, and diction, for he knew nothing of the matter peraonally, the
only proof of it that having been drawn from
whieh'was directly adverse to the di cision conic to by
the other house ht Parliament, they felt that it was no- thosethe columns of a oarcvative newspaper--ono of
paperstco toh which he found he
themust not
cea ary to appeal to the country for the final judgment: attacDatum When the noble earl talked of the absence of factious op Evening Mail it importance.sai(speaking ofLi tiier
position he must say he thought in this respect th-re was election) there was no ac übt of the le'Pern P°la7f
a marked difference in the course taken by the two the 07Donoghue, as, owing to the efforts of the con-
houses. Their lordships would recollect that the noble servatives in his behalf," two hun hod and fifty of Liar 1
earl, when he brought forward the subject, solemnly ad. Donoughmore's tenants voted for him, and he has also the
jured them to cast aside all party considerations, to as- support of Lord Heywood. He (Earl Granville) did hope,
hurtle a judicial position, and decide the question upon for the credit of the Conservative party, that this was not
principles of butnani,y and justice, bat unless rumeure, true. He believed that the O'Donoghuo was a popular
which were 'very prevalent, were altogether false—end
member of the Young Ireland party, entertaining the most
extreme Young Ireland views, and the strongest opinions
so confidently, and without authority had these rumours on the subject of tenant-right ; and ho feared that such a
been prOtnulgated, that until they were contradictA;,-
..,1 coalition as was hare indicated would be more aneerus to
w!iich hitherto they bad not been, he could not refuse the credit of the Conservative party than the adgesioon of
them credence—the noble earl had held a very different Mr. Gladstone, or any other momberof that party. (Hear.)
slew as to the manner in wbich the subject ought to be The noble earl had spoken of his devoted attachment to
dealt with in the other house, and had, both by word of the Church of England, but ho did not think the course he
mouth and in writing, applied a prewsureia iividnally mid had lately adopted was the one most likely to_ aid that
collectively upon his supporters to compel them to vote church. Their lordships would recollect the appeal the
against the Government. The noble earl had alluded to noble sad male to the right rev. prelates when he brought
forward his motion on the subject of the hostilities in
a subject which had been much canvassed in the course
China, which could not, he thought, have bean otherwise
of these diecussions as to a coalition said to exist than offensive notwithstanding the solemn manner "
between himself and others who did not gene- which it was
pi pat. Subsequently the noble earl passedma
rally twee with him, and quoted a speech of the late S r high compliment on the zeal ant ability of the two right
Robert Peel in favour of coalitions when formed on jue- rev. members of the episcopal beneh—the Bishop of Exeter
tidable groueds. This, however, was somewhat eon- anti Oxford—and having done so proceeded to condemn
trary to the line of argument taken by the noble eat l's their absence from the house when the division took,place.
re presentative in the other house, who also quoted a A more Lnfair acen,alion be bad never heard. However,
speech, showing that Englishmen generally were not in their lordships woul-1 see that it was quite impossible for
favour of coalitions; and he remembered on one occa io t him to enter into the reasons which had influenced his
noble friend in recommending persons to her Majesty for
one of the most distinguished members of the Cunseree -
five party (Lord George Bentinek) saying that notbing teptiascioinpabappointmlents. Itle thought the accusation of la-
wagaa so ao,ostsifiouanttfloaar,ofbutiti_lese would
.refrain
so dangerous to the chzracter of public man when from goairUzg?in3nlto
political opponents coalesced—more especially when further than to expressnyj his belief that 117senaogeullriernnehetatal
such coalition was made the stepping-atone to power. the heal of the Government had, in. making them,
(" Hear, hear," from Lord Derby.) The not la lord in actuated by the best a i,lies for the prosperity of he church,
that house assured them that there was in the late divi- and that they lwere agreeable to tho great majority of
sion no coalition, no concert, no compact on the part of Churchmen. The noble earl had ma le an attack of a some-
thewhat personal nature on Lord Palmerston. I-1,4 thought the
Opposition. (hear, hear ) Wh- n a noble ors rose
in that house and .gave suc't an assurance—still wore hbeasitna(neeiter he coulll give to that attack was the statement
a hen that noble lord wits the heatl-of the great Comer. hadi b:
ola
,triotatt
oyoihntl: ea,
the
amscolryji
services
to, isf filoar 515
Palmerstonth the noble earlf
vative party—he would not for a moment venture be in- one of the most important, posts under the Crown. In his
eanuete a doubt of the correctness of that statement ; opinion it was easy to understeni why the people of this
. but when that noble lord of al tinged the Goveenment *n country did approve of Lord Palineralon's conduct, and
somewhat of an offensive maimer to say whether they wished to retain him as Minister of the Crown. He be-
did or did not believe in fee EX stesce of a factious c in:- Havel it was because Lori I'almerston's character, opi-
binatinn of parties who did not u-u Ally ar-t t,getlicr, /lions, and feelings were eiugielarly in unison with those of
entered into fur the pea-pose of filming out the Govern- the people of this country. The people considered the cir-
can:leaflet's under which Lord Palmerslon had roceptiel the
niect, and talked of the foul calumnies prevailing en the
Government, when for three weeks there had been nee. Go-
subject—while entirely a iheriug to his faith in the noble
vernment, ant herMejesty had, accordieg to constitutional
lord's high, honour and strict aceuraey, anti e ithout usage, offered it to every !older of party who cool I have
meaning the slightest discount an he must, in answer, had the sliehtest chance of carrying it on. It was only
say, that from some facts which had come to his know- when these' chances had been exhausted that the noble
ledge he did believe that there had been something of the viscount accented the task, at an age when other mon
sort which the noble eati denied. First, as to whether would have sought rest rather than active employment.
it was likely that any,hing of the kind 110 occurred. Having aerepte'd the post, Lord Palmerston had, as the
When the Government was effered to the noble ea-I in noble earl adini; tad, carried on the war with rigour, anti
1851, he Faid there were certain eiTerenees which- 'did ha I brought it to a triumphant termination • and subse-
not enable him t o take office wi h the
gentlemen referral em ntly, wi h, the all of his noble friend near 'him, effected
to as having formed part of ate cealit cm in the qeajerat a treaty of peace which substantially secured all the oh-
instancepointae might qeote a seinten‘
; but upon this jecte for which the war had been undertaken. The coun-.
from the Latin grammar, "De mortuis nil nisi benninu?' try saw 'nbn supported by Parliament with more or less
and say no more. Nevertheless, the noble earl did take constancy during the war, but they also saw at its -close,
that, whether by accident or combination, various parties,
office, and during the period he b. 11 it 16 eutinY a
l although they could not improve their own position,sought
failed in two successive Pailiaments in obtaining the coe- to impede the-action of, and finally to crush the Govern-
fidence of Parliament. In 1855 an opportunity was meat. The noble earl complained of the' dissolution of
aeain offered to him to form a Goveroment, and he stated Parliament, but the Conservative leader of the House of
as the reason why he declined was that Lord Peltner. Commons had said on the first day of the session that it was
ston—that Lord Palmeretoi, be it reco lected, in whoa' a perfectly right course to adopt, and it wa E only after the
the noble lord could now place no confidence whatever nobletl earl had taken time to consider the matter that it was
because of the events of 1848 and 1850—would not join ultimately
tuliernticell'haobjected to. He (Lord Granville) was inclined
him. (Cheers.) In 1855 the noble earl thought the whole hai
bee. that
taltcogoreaants;ood would result from the step that
the Government sea; groettaposc
ttoinfhtehe questionh upon which
questi on of whether he could undertake the conduct of
fhe would the Government or not rested upon the possibility of ob- antextractfrom a memorandum of thceolluuktreyo,
taining Lord Palmerston's assistance—not' in a subordi- on a similar occasion. (The noble earl read the menooran!
nate position, but as the leader of the Cemnions of Eng- am, the substance of which was that the Queen's servants
land—(cheers)—and not only that, but, as his noble dissolved, because, on account
was
impossible to carry o
of certain combinations
friend behind him reminded him, as Ma Minister for the House of Commons, j
on the
Porign Affairs—to "meddle," `a dictate," and "inter- Queen's service. The question, then, upon which
re?they went to the country had no reference to any pi
The Earl of DERBY—That is utterly and entirely Centex vote, but was in reality whether the Ministers
-
were to be supported, or whether the Queen was
erroneous. The position of Foreign Secretary was never,
and would never have teen, offered by me to Lord to look for other servants. In this view there would be no
PaElmarelreGtoank use of political cries or nicknames at the elections ; the
isitehd_ fr, hear.) question was simply, for and against the Government.
assume that thevILLE accepted the denial, and wou'd Now, he believed that the Government had been perfectly
was that
which the noble earl had in right in the part taken in the Chinese affailierno
esnouclphinptc.eprretri3neg-
the noble lord
de-
plane in his hands all the power
which would English merchants, whom it wiacshnow the fashion to de-
owmhich wag usual) vested
in the leader of the HousPeo
, were theceraya,
(rill Christian missions, h
1 'ugh.) Sucb, however Commons. (Cheers, and a t But'tdore wwentrntos
Circumstances of the
offer, and such was the opinion the noble earl then held their general policy--on the question, in short, of whether
of
the administration was or was not worthy of the national
of Lord Palmerston. He was not aware that the party
general confidence. He believed that the result of that appeal
of the noble earl had received any would be triumphant for the Government, and, although
coision of it might be diminished by coalitions, such as had recently
strength or talent since 1855, and therefore ahe thougi t taken place in Tipperary, he believed there would be a
it was by no means unnatural that the noble earl should majority strong enough to carry all progressive measures.
wish to enlist the aid of a gentleman of high character, (Hear, hear.)
great attainment , asnd mucl-
li . ience in the business The Earl of MALMESBURY complained of the manner
of Government and Parliamenth expelike Mr. Gladstone. in which the most eolemn statement that a peer could
Hear.) And so far from of j - cling to such is combine- make had been treated by the noble earl. That noble earl
tion—though be should naturally regret to see any ma, who was the leader of their debates should not have given
perfectly sincere i
of character and ability leavingso
the Liberal rank —here
disclaimerTheE
would, he thought, be great advantage to the country if -Earl GRANVILLE believed that the noble earlhad been
n his declaration. the noble earl could succeed in strengthening his party
a of DERBY explained that ho had intended his
teaeinintheanaeron
by the adhesion of a gentleman who in all they did, and
in every vote they gave, would feel that they might in whom to ael not only to himself, but to all with
ho was ptoritically connected. Ho was perfectly
been eon combinationpwaritthnfp
consequencebe called upon to take part in the Government
acegrr
the part
persons
w politicalithwfriends,
ethere d had
t themselves. (Cheers.) Well, what happened at the com-
mencement of the present session ? The session had eo
Tho Eagrl al
sooner opened than the leader of the Opposition in the
that the houtefsayeLMESßUßY continned—He had said
ether house and Mr. Gladstone wee'. found to be in the those debates ;ehaTked to the noble earl as the leader of
most friendly relations 'with each 'rhea Specolatinns talk of noble meetinglordswas it
tcensistent with that position to
were put forward and questione were asked in the public tho Gov in the other honee,
atnarritillooerrs of Parliament in a
papers upon the subject, to which it was replied that he tho Government? (Hear.) Neither aldeirepiring against
air. Gladstone) could not help it, if the leader cf the nified tee road four or five colon:ins of a newspaper,
it dig-
Opposition came to him to solicit his co-operation in had been told by his (Lord Malmeeburyn) nophalpoefrrieterhhe
matters upon which th'y both felt alike. That view, he knew no morewaabsout that newspaper than did the noble
however, he believed, was deprecated by the other side, earl himself. V
1 _
..n:tsuch a lino of argument a mere
for these observations were not confined to the liberal waste of their lordip ' time ? Ito trusted it would ba the
and radical papers, and an article appeared in the Press last time they should hear the solemn and deliberate state