The Sun.
London, England, 1861-07-03 00:00:00

that our Government was prepay ad to interfere in the wrong
cause and at the wrong time, and very reluctant to do it for

the right cause and at the right time.
Mr. SCULLY, while concurring in all the generous sen-
timents which that debate had elicited, wished that those

who gave utterance to them on behalf of a distant country
would not refuse to practise them nearer home. He trusted
the Poles would not be induced, in consequence of that dis-

cussion, to place themselves in collision with the great
Powers which now ruled over them, because if they did so
they would find that they would receive no support from
England beyond a few spirited speeches. It was true, as
the noble lord said, that the Czar was acting nobly in libe-
rating many millions of serfs, but that act of enfranchise-
ment extended to Russians, not to Poles. In this country
we had a most liberal Government, which did everything
liberal for England, but which did not assist in removing
the oppressions under which the sister island laboured.
Ireland was an exact parallel to Poland, with this only dif-
ference, that it was a very much worse case. (Laughter.)
When he had been requested to advocate the cause of
Poland in that house, he had asked those who made the
request to come down there and see the reception he would
meet with in attempting to bring forward the wrongs of
Ireland, and they would find that the grievances of any
country in the world would awaken a better response than
those of Ireland. When 250 destitute human beings were
turned out upon a bleak mountain side, and their charac-
ters blasted, an inquiry in their case was denied. If hon.

gentlemen were sincere in the generous sentiments they
enunciated on behalf of foreign nations, they would surely
place a couhtry which was under their own rule upon an
equality with the rest of the kingdom.
Lord PALMERSTO N—As the despatches now moved
for are those which I myself wrote when at the Foreign-
office, I wish merely to take the opportunity of saying that
I entirely agree with 'my noble friend in respect to their
production. I then entertained the opinion which the British
Government of that time entertained and expressed as to
the course which the Government of Russia adopted towards
Poland ; and that opinion, couched in terms befitting the
relations then subsisting between England and Russia, was
that the course so taken was a complete and decided viola-
tion of the stipulations of the Treaty of Vienna. (Hear,
hear.) I agree with my noble friend that it is impossible
for anybody who has any admiration for high national
qualities for patriotism, endurance, love of liberty,. not to
admire the Polish character. And it is equally impossible
for anybody who has any sense of wrong not to lament those
misfortunes which have befallen the Poles from the time
of their first partition down to the present moment. (Hear.)
That partition was a gross violation of national right.
(Hear, hear.) The stipulations of the Treaty of Vienna
were broken almost as soon as concluded. (Hear, hear.)
The British Government, upon every occasion on which it
was called on to pronounce an opinion, or on which it
thought it c ould pronounce an opinion usefully, declared
that to be its view. And when the hon. gentleman (Mr.
White) says that the English Government interferes in
some cases by opinion and advice, and does not interfere in
others, I must tell him that the English Government inter-
feres in proportion as it thinks it can do so usefully—(hear,
hear)—that when it thinks its opinion may prevail it ex-
presses it in the form which it believes the most likely to
prevail. But when the Government feels that its opinions
will not be attended to, and that the result will be that it
will either have to submit to a refusal or to ask the country

to take up arms—an appeal which the Government knows
full well the country wou!d not answer—why, prudence,
and even the interest of the parties concerned, would lead it
not to exasperate where it is unable to convince. (Hear.)
The hon. member who made this motion thinks the Bri-

tish Government has neglected several opportunities when
it might, in conjunction with other Powers, have restored
Poland to independence. Why, the occasions to which he

alludes were occasions on which war must have been made ;
and I ask any gentleman present whether, in the course of
his memory, any period ever arose in which he believes
this country would have been induced to enter into an
European war for the emancipation of Poland, how-
ever much we may have sympathised with her wrongs,
and desired to see her independence re-established. (Hear.)
Take the Crimean war. During that war we were engaged
in operations which had the security of Turkey for their
object, and all the military and naval resources which
England and France could command were directed to the
Crimea and the Black Sea. Had we sent any of the
forces which were engaged in those operations to Poland,
we might have failed in accomplishing that for which we
had undertaken the war, for a most important considera-
tion in naval and military operations is the concentration of
your forces to one point. (Hear, hear.) Therefore it is
manifest that it would have been extreme folly to attempt
warlike enterprises in two suDh distant quarters, even if we
had the means of doing so. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gen-
tleman thinks that Austria would have been a willing and
powerful ally at that time for the emancipation of Poland.
Does the hon. gentleman remember that Austria, supported
and encouraged by Russia, committed the greatest viola-
tion of the Treaty of Vienna perpetrated by any of those
three countries ? (Hear, hear.) 1 will take the liberty of
saying that perhaps the greatest violation of a treaty that
has ever taken place in the history of the world was that
which occurred in the case of ,Poland—(hear, hear)—be-
cause there were three Powers who undertook by treaty
to support and defend the independence of the republic of
Cracow, and yet those trustees and guardians of that re-
public combined to destroy that independence, and to in-
corporate the republic itself with the empire of Austria.
(Hear, hear.) I do not think the case was a hopeful
one for our getting the assistance of Austria to achieve the
independence of Poland ; but, be that as it may, we were
engaged in another country, and we had not the
means, even if this country had the will, to embark in such
an operation. I concur with my noble friend in thinking that
a nation which, under Fuch a long course of oppression, has
resisted all attempts to destroy its national spirit must be
destined, some day or other, for a better fate ; but if the
object of the hon. gentleman was to induce the Government
to take more active steps than are involved in the expression
of opinion, I would say, in the first place, that I do not
think we should be supported in such a proceeding by the
people of this country, and, secondly, that the Government
are not prepared to ask the country to make those sacrifices
and engage in those operations by which alone active mea-
' sures for such a purpose could be brought to a successful
issue. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HENNESSY said his object had been to obtain
information. He would not presume to give the Govern-
ment advice, but did he venture to do so, the last advice he
should think of giving them was to interfere in the manner
they had done in continental affairs.
The motion was then agreed to.
CHAIN CABLES AND ANCHOIk3 IN THE MER-
CHAN T SERVICE.

Sir J. ELPHINSTONE, in rising to call the attention of
the house to the report of the select committee which sat
last year on chains and anchors, observed that all the state-
ments he had made in moving the appointment of that com-
mittee had been borne out in evidence. It was proved, in
the first place that the cables supplied to ships belonging to
her Majesty's service were seldom or never found fault with,
They were subjected to tests so very effectual that on very
few occasions were they discovered to be defective. It
was proved by the evidence of manufacturers that the state
of matters was so bad that nothing but an authorised com-
pulsory test would be of any use. It was proved that a very
large proportion of cables were made of inferior material and
workmanship. No less than 821 per cent. of those brought
to Liverpool to be tested failed under a comparatively light
pressure. At Sunderland, where there was a test, the cables
were of a better quality. All the chain cable manufacturers
concurred in the necessity of a proof. So bad were some of
the cables that an instance was mentioned in which a cable
broke by simply falling out of a cart in which it was being
conveyed along the street. A great number of most inef-
fective chains were manufactured and sold with forged cer-
tificates. Iron in Staffordshire not fit for any other purpose
was manufactured into chains which were principally used
for small vessels, of which somethinglike 1,000 were wrecked
on our coasts every year. Yet no inquiry took place as to
the soundness of their ground tackle. The chain which
swung the coals out of the mines was subjected to a test,
and if that chain broke and a coal miner was thereby killed,
the owner would be found guilty of manslaughter ; but if
a coal brig were lost from the defective nature of her ground
tackle, no inquiry took place, and there was a very con-
siderable annual loss of most valuable lives, which was due
to defective cables. It might be said that it was not the
duty of the Government to prescribe in what manner ship-
owners should furnish their ships ; but Government did
interfere where human life was concerned ; and there were
various ways in which, without going too far, the testing of
chain cables might be placed in the category of Government
interference. The committee came to the resolution that
good grounds had beeen laid by the evidence before them of
the absolute necessity of public tests, and especially that all
vessels employed in the conveyance of emigrants or Govern-
ment stores should be obliged to furnish themselves with tested
cables. Thecommitteewereunanimousintheirfindings. Pub-
lic companies—such as dock companies—might safely be in-
trusted with some supervision in this matter. A ship could
now procure a cable which would hold her under any ordi-
nary circumstances of wind and weather of a cheaper descrip-
tion than those which ships were formerly supplied with,
the weight of the one cable being much less than the other.
His object on the present occasion was not to force on the
Government any abstract resolution, but simply to find out
whether it was their intention, with such a mass of evidence
before them, to take up and deal with this question. He
knew the difficulties which attended the efforts of private
members in endeavouring to pass a bill on such a subject, or
be should have undertaken the task himself. When the
matter was of so much importance to the country in every
respect, he thought it was the bounden duty of Her
Majesty's Ministers to take it up and make it a Government
measure.
Admiral WALCOTT, as a member of the committee, cor-
dially concurred with his hon. friend as to the necessity,
propriety, and imperative duty of the Government in taking
measures to satisfy themselves that all vesselsing leaving the
ins duly tested
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by proper authorities.
Mr. M. GIBSON said the hon. baronet had succeeded in
eliciting a great deal of valuable information on the subject
of the chains and anchors supplied to merchant vessels
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