The Sun.
London, England, 1857-02-14 00:00:00

increase in the number of men. It is there, it anywhere,
that the dangerous designs of the Government must be
discovered.' The number of men, exclusive of Queen's
regiments
in India, was 119,881 in 1853, but it will this
year be
isprincipallyl26,746, owing to augmentations of the
being an increase of 6,915 men. That
increase
artillery corps-(hear, hear)-and to the creation of two
new corps-the Military Train, or Land Transport, and
the Hospital Corps, which is a body of orderlies to at-,
tend to the military patients of the hospitals. ThiS
explanation ought, I think, to relieve the Government
from the charge that they are anxious to introduce,
ourtra nmditliiotanryfreoymeterowa. war
Thereto peace,i
s a
an
n
item of 225,0001. for warlike stores, which is owing to the
entiredur Pg
innovation the
prevent i
purchase of the new pattern musket and the fulfilment
of contracts for gunpowder entered into during the war,
and with regard to which the same remark as that which
I have already made as to the contracts for timber applies.
Gunpowder is an article which cannot be obtained in a
moment. It is necessary that the manufacturers should
have some notice before it is required. If the war had
continued, and the Government had been found not to
have made the necessary provisions for obtaining such an
article as gunpowder, I have no doubt that they would
have received the well-merited censure of this house. The
war being fortunately at an end a loss must be sustained
on that article. There is an increase of 240,0001. in the
item with respect to artificers' wages on account of addi-
tions to the manufacturing departments. Under the head
of works and buildings there is an inerease of 243,0001.,
which is owing to the increased barrack accommodation
which has been provided for the army-(hear)-and to the
great military hospital at Southampton and works of de-
fence in progress upon the coast. There is also another in-
crease in the educational vote of 67,0001. These are the
principal items of increase in the army estimates. (Cheers.)
I now come to the civil service estimates, in which like-
wise there is an increase. The amount of these estimates
is 7,250,0001., which exhibits an increase of about half a
million over the estimates for the current year. There are,
as the miscellaneous estimates will inform the house, aug-
mentations under certain heads and diminutions under
others which may be set off against each other, but the
general result is an increase of about half a million, which
is accounted for in the following manner :-There is an
entirely new charge for the County Courts, now for the
first time brought into the estimates, in consequence of an
act passed daring the last session. That bill was received
with great favour in this house, and there was manifested
by many gentlemen a disposition still further to increase
the charge, (Hear, hear.) This charge for the County
Courts, which was previously defrayed by fees, will
amount to 180,0001. There is also a charge for county
constabulary-no doubt a most useful expenditure, but
one to which a similar observation applies-viz., that it
was proposed in this house that the awn granted from the
Exchequer for that purpose should be increased. The sum
estimated for the county constabulary is 146,0001. There
will be an increase in the amount of the vote for public
education in England, arising from the extension of the
operations of the Committee of Council, an extension
which I hope will not be other than /Acceptable to a large
majority of the members of this house, who appear to think
that it is in this manner that assistance can best be given
to voluntary efforts for the improvement and extension of
education. (Hear, hear.) The addition to this vote will
be 120,000/. (Hear, hear.) I shall also propose to take a
vote for purchasing a site on which to build certain publiii
offices, a matter which has now become one of necessity;
I shall ask for money sufficent for the purchase of land on
which to build a new Foreign-office-an office for the
War Department, which is now scattered under different
roofs, and a new Colonial-office. The amount which I
shall require will be 80,0001. These four items, taken
together, make the sum of 535,000/., and therefore I
have fully accounted for the increase of half a million in
the civil service estimates, the chief part of which arises
from two new charges which are now for the first time
brought upon the votes of this house -viz., those for County
Courts and county constabulary. There will also be an in-
crease in the charges for the collection of revenue amount-
ing to 111,0001. That is, I believe, principally owing to
the increased facilities which have been given for the trans-
mission of letters and the consequent augmentation of the
charge for the Post-office. Having thus called the atten-
tion of the committee to some items of the miscellaneous
estimates, I must be permitted to refer with some feeling
to a remark which was made by my right hon. friend the
member for the University of Oxford (Mr. GladstonJ) on
the first night of the session. He said that he had ob-
served both in the country and in this house a disposition
to increase expenditure and to diminish taxation. Now, air,
it was remarked, I think, by Dr. Johnson, that it rarely
happens that more than one-half of an antithetical sentence
is true ; but I can confirm to the very letter the exact
truth of my right hon. friend's antithesis. 'I can from per-
sonal experience bear witness to the fact that there is at
present a very great desire to increase expenditure-a de-
sire not less strong than that which appears to prevail for
the reduction of taxation. Well, sir, we hear a good deal
of complaints-made sometimes in this house, but more
frequently at public meetings in the country and through
the medium of the press-of the jobbing tendencies of Go-
vernments, of public men, and even of the members of this
house; and it is affirmed that the great cause of the in-
crease of expenditure and of the demands made upon the
national Exchequer is this tendency to corruption. It
seems to me that the gentlemen who make these complaints
take their opinions of the existing state of things from
books such as "Horace Walpole's Memoirs," " Doddiug-
ton's Diary," or other well-known historical works of the
last century, but fail to observe facts and events passing
under their eyes. There is no real danger of the Exchequer
suffering to any serious extent from jobbery or corruption.
(A. blight laugh.) That is my firm belief. However I may
suffer a loss of the good opinion of hon. gentlemen for my
supposed innocence and simplicity-(renewed laughter)-
I must nevertheless venture to reassert my opinion that,
looking at the publicity which surrounds public men, look-
ing at the discussions which take place in this house, and
at the vigilance of public opinion and of the press, the Ex-
chequer of this country is in no great danger from personal
jobbing and corruption. (Hear, hear.) The real danger
to the Exchequer comes from a totally different quarter.
It arises from the useful projects and the ardent philan-
thropy of various persons, each intent upon realising his
own plan for the good of the country. (Hear, hear.) I
speak with some feeling upon this subject, inasmuch as it
is my lot to receive a great variety of representations either
from deputations or in writing, the larger proportion of
which are prompted by the best motives and aim at the
most useful objects, but all of which it would be impossible
to satisfy if the taxes of this country amounted, not to
60,000,u00/„ but to 120,0j0,0001. a-year. No moderate
amount of taxation would be sufficient to provide for all
the useful objects which are suggested. It is not long since 1
an application was made to me for the advance of four
millions to the Metropolitan Board of Works. (Laughter.)
Hon. gentlemen may treat the matter with levity, but I
can assure them that that is by no means the spirit in
which it is regarded by the gentlemen who made the ap-
lication to me. They were extremely unwilling to receive
the answer which I gave, that the matter should receive
the consideration of the Government, and seemed to be
surprised that 1 did not at once enter-I presume on behalf
of Parliament--into an engagement to effect a loan to the
extent of 4,000,0001. for the object which they have in
view. I merely mention that as an object in which a very
large portion of the population of this metropolis takes an
interest, and which many persons consider to be a national
object of no ordinary importance. There is also a plan
which was recommended by a committee of last session for
the concentration of all the public offices. That committee
recommended that there should be a large purchase of land
in Westminster,-intending, I presume, that public offices
should, without loss of time, be erected upon it. I believe
that the lowest estimate for the purchase of the land was
about 1,500,0001., and I suppose that for the erection of
buildings in accordance with the views of those who pro-
moted this plan a sum of not less than 6,000,000/. or
6,000,0001. sterling would be required. There are nu-
merous plans for museums, for collections of science and
art,-all of them highly useful, and tending to the im-
provement of all classes of the community,-not confined
to London, but proposed for Edinburgh and Dublin, and
even for other large towns in the United Kingdom. There
are plans for the laying out of parks in the metropolis and
other large towns (I need not say that the purchase in the
neighbourhood of London of a eapce sufficient for a
public park implies a considerable outlay of money),
and also a plan for the purchase of Hampsteads'aeath.
There are numerous plans for widening the streets and
improving the approaches and communications of the
metropolis. There are plans connected with bridges
in the metropolis and elsewhere. There are plans for
electric telegraphs connecting the meet distant regions of
the earth, passing, however, under thousands of miles of
sea. There aro also numerous and undoubtedly most bene-
ficial plans for the extension of education, and for the
erection of schools of different sorts and for different.
classes. Furthermore, there are all those plans and pro-
posals, of which we used to hear so much last session, for
the increase of half-pay and superannuation allowances and
for allowances to widows and other persons who have suf-
fered from the consequences of the war. .I, dare say that
the experience of hon. members would easily enable them
to increase this list. But it is from proposals of this kind,
and not from proposals for the benefit of individuals or for
purposes of corruption, that the real difficulties of the Go-
vernment arise at the present time, inasmuch as it is ut-
terly impossible, however wealthy the country may be,
however willing to submit to any reasonable load of taxa-
tion, for it to provide the funds required for all these dif-
ferent projects, and therefore the task of selecting those of
them which are the most useful, the most urgent, and
most deserving of the attention of the Government and of
this house is anything but an easy one. Let me now call -
the consideration of the committee to the debt which has
been created by the war, and which has imposed obliee. 1
tions on the nation which it is now necessary to fulfil. The 1
total addition made to the funded debt during the war was
, 30,266,0001., involving an increased annual °beige of
907,0001. There were also terminable annuities granted to
the extent of 116,0001. Next, there were Exchequer-bonds
issued to the extentof 7,000,000/. ; also Exchequer-bills to
the extent of 5,041,000 e, bearing an annual interest of
191,0001, The annual charge on the Exchequer-bonds is
245,0001. The annual increase of charge upon the revenue
on account of the debtcreated during the war, exclusive ofcertain items to which I shall presently refer, amounts
therefore in round numbers to a million and a half sterling.
I have now completed the explanation which I bade to olYer
on the subject of the expenditure; but before I come to the
plan of taxation for the ensuing year I must trouble the
committee with some remarks upon expressions that fell
from my right hon. friend the member for the University
of Oxford on a former night. lam not quite sure that I
fully collected the purport of his observations, bat I re-
member that he alluded to a compact entered into in the
year 1853 between Parliament and the country with regard
to the permanence of tlae financial arrangements of that
session. Now, I can unelerst and an agreement such as that
made at the union between. 'Scotland and England, or at the
time of the union between. Ireland and England, and embe-
bodied in an act of Parliament, by which one of the can-
trecting parties may be tr.id to be extinguished; I can un-
derstand an arrangem out of that kind having the sacred
nature of a contract,, which cannot be disturbed with-
out a manifest brew ch of public faith. But in• order
to establish the d oct,rine that a financial arrange-
ment entered into f 'or a particular year or series of
years has the quail ties
is necessary, And, incidents of a compact, it
it see att, to me, to show that the state of
things which was assumed as the basis of that compact
has not been varied by subsequent events, but still remains
unchanged. In the first place, then, the plan of 1853 was
framed on the sup) msition that peace would continue un-
broken. I need re at say that that part of the suppos"
unfortunately die. not prove to be correct. W _Aron
actual expenditu re, as well as in its come' . ar, in its
cause in the mat,- -sciences, is un-
r st ag a
magnitude r l
ping
and it is only ne' -air of tinauce of the
happilyhm
the facts which I /',ave just re -*leery for me to refer to
increase of anti tea', char,- '...rrated 'in regard to the large
the recent hostVitie .0 on account of the debt, owing to
nt ro-
of the arrang, ..4d, in order to show that the foundation,
()Tett' dbeeebnf v -.rent of 1853 has, ins the most importa.erturned. Yet not only has the annual charge
meats it , been augmented, but there are also certain pay-
effect i . the nature of the redemption of debt which take
Lew as the years included within the period of that settle-
" The settlement extended from 1853 to 1360. Nell,

the committee with these details, but, after all that has
been said, after the gloomy view which some persons have
taken of our present prospects, and the extent to which
war taxation has diminished the energies of the country,
I think it is important that the committee should be put
in possession of all the material facts bearing upon the p
sition of the great branches of our trade and industry. If
we turn now to the shipping of the country, taking the en-
tries and clearances together, we find that the tonnage of
British vessels with cargoes in 1856 shows a considerable
increase over all Rimer years. As compared with 1855
there is an increase of 1,760,000 tons, or 19 per cent., and
of 1,906,000 tons in comparison with 1853. In order to
comfort those gentlemen who some few years ago antici-
pated the ruin of the shipping of this country by the alte-
ration of the navigation laws, I will venture to read the
figures for three years representing the tonnage of vessels
with cargoes entered and cleared. They are as follows :
British. Foreign. Total.
Tons. Tons. Tons.
1853 ... 9,061,000 6,316,000 15,380,000
1855 ... 9,211,000 6,156,000 15,367,000
1856 ... 10,971,000 6,933,000 17,901,000
The committee will remark that though 1855 was a year of
war, still it presents an increase, and also that the in-
crease in all the three years has been to a great extent on
British shipping, and only very slight on foreign shipping.
It is not a little remarkable that the large amount of ton-
nage taken up by the Government during the war, com-
prising an aggregate of about 200,000 tons, should have
fallen back for employment upon the ordinary demands of
trade without any perceptible embarrassment to the ship-
ping interest, and this is another proof of the elasticity of
the demand and the rapidity with which the country has
adapted itself to the change from war to peaoe. There is
only one other point to which I wish to advert, and my
object in doing so is to prove the demand for labour which
now exists in this country, and which has not been dimi-
nished even by the disbanding of the troops and seamen after
the war. The total number of emigrants from the United
Kingdom in the yesr 1852 was 368,764, and in the last year
1856, it was 176,554, showing the great reduction which has
taken place in the emigration of the country since 1852,
notwithstanding the transition from war to peace. I shall
now proceed to call attention to something which may.
perhaps, appear of more pressing interest—l mean the esti-
mates, or accounts of the actual expenditure which has been
caused by the war, and of the manner in which that expen-
diture has been or will be incurred. The expenditure of the
three years of war, 1854-5, 1855-6, 1856-7, including the
loan of 2,000,0001. to Sardinia, was 228,721,000/. ; while
the net expenditure of the three years 1851-2, 1852-3,
1853-4, immediately preceding the war, was 152,323,0001.
If you deduct the expenditure of the three years of peace
from that of the three years of war, you must arrive at a
pretty close approximation of the expenditure for the war.
Ido not know a fairer way of coming at it. This gives us
76,398,0001. as the war expenditure in the three years
1851-5,1855.6, and 1856-7. The net revenue of the three
years of war—that is to say the revenue arising from the or-
dinary branches of taxation, independent of loans, was
192,685,0001., and if you deduct from that the net peace
expenditure in the three years 1851-2, 1852-3, 1653-4,
which was 152,323,000/., there remains a surplus revenue
applicable to war expenditure amounting to 40,362,0001.
That represents the war revenue derived from war taxa-
tion. Then I add the money raised by additions to the
funded and unfunded debt, amounting to 41,041,0001. Ad-
ding these two sums together, the total sum applicable to
war expen liture over and above the sum applied to peace
expenditure would be found to be 81,403,0001. But as the
excess of war expenditure was not more than 76,398,0001.,
the difference between those sums exhibits the more
flourishing state of the revenue at the end of the war as
compared with its state at the beginning, and shows that a
portion of the maney borrowed for the purpose of war ltill
remains in the Exchequer. I now proceed to a more practi-
cal part of the subject—namely, the estimated expenditure
for the ensuing year (1857-8). The interest of the fun led
and unfunded debt will be 28,550,050 e, and the permanent
chargeson the Consolid sted Fund will amount to 1,770,0001.
The charge for the army, including 400,0001. for the militia
(the estimate of which is not on the table, though that will
be the probable amount), will be 11,625,0001. ; the charge
for the navy, including the Coastguard, 8,109,0001. The
packet service will cost 965,0001., and the civil services
7,250,0001. The collection of the revenue, which is now
brought into the annual charge, though it was formerly
excluded from it, will amount to 4,215,0001. The superan-
nuation of revenue departments, removed from the gross
revenue by the act of last session, and now brought into
the annual statement for the firsetime, will be 475,0001.
For the Government portion of the expense of the Persian
expedition, which will accrue before the tat of April next
year, I take 265,0001. That assail I propose to ask for that
purpose, the sum being calculated according to the agree-
ment entered into with the East India Company, to the
effect that the Exchequer should bear half the extraordi-
nary expenses of the war. The total of these supply charges
will be 32,904,0001., which added to the charge for the
debt, and to the charges on the Consolidated Fund, will
make a total expenditure of 63,224,0001., independent of
the repayment of debts. I now come to that portion of the
burden for the year which is consequent on the late war—
namely, the repayment of loans contracted during the war,
and made chargeable on the revenue of an ensuing year.
First of all there is the series of Exchequer-bonds issued in
1854, and payable on the Bth May, 1857. They amount to
2,000,000/., and I propose to move a formal resolution for
the repayment of those bonds. There is also the sinking fund
for the second loan of 5,000,0001. contracted last year, add
made chargeable on the Consolidated Fund, which amounts
to 250,0001. The amount of debt, therefore, repayable,
partly by specific engagement under act of Parliament, and
partly by distinct charge on the Consolidated Fund, whiCh
therefore it is incumbent on the Government to make pro-
vision for, is 2,250,0001. The total outlay to be provided for
in the ensuing year will be 65,474,0301. The committee,
however, should bear in mind that the estimated expendi-
ture for the coming year includes an amount of neatly
5,000,0001. for the collection of the revenue, which was not
included in the estimates of former years. Now, I will 143
before the committee as shortly as I can some explanatidn
in reference to the charges of the ensuing year. I labsrnr
under some disadvantage in this respect, inasmuch as the
committee will probably expect to hear some explanation,
however general, of the sums which I estimate for the
charges of the army and navy ; and those estimates have
not yet undergone any consideration before the house. I
do not know that I could take a fairer view of the army
and navy estimates than by comparing them with the
amount of the same estimates before the war. As compared
with the reduced estimates of last year, there is an abso-
lute diminution in the army and navy estimates of the pre-
sent year, amounting to about 17,000.0001. The committee
must of course be aware that however desirqus the Go-
vernment may be to bring the war establishment to a peace
standard, the change cannot be made by magic. It cannot
be made in an instant, as if by the stroke of a wand, mid
some time must necessarily be allowed to the departments
to make those changes by which the transition can be
effected. Therefore, in instituting a comparison with the
three years of peace immediately before the war, I take a
comparison which everybody must admit to be fair, and
which in fact bears rather hardly against the executive,
because it is not possible at once to bring the army and
navy down to the condition in which it stood immediately
before the war. (Hear.) These are the amounts for the
army, navy, and packet service for three years before the
war. In 1851 the estimate for the army was 8,951,0001. ;
in 1852, 9,408, .00/. ; and in 1853, 10,113,0001. The esti-
mate for the army for the ensuing year is on the table,
and will be found to be 11,625,0001. (Hear.) The esti-
mate for the navy in 1851 was 5,734,000/. • in 1852,
5,835,000/. ; and in 1853, 6,285,0001 For the ensuing
year the estimate, exclusive a the Coastguird, which would
disturb the comparison if taken into the calculation, inas-
much as the transfer of that item to the navy estimates was
only made last year, is 7,623,0001. I think that the com-
mittee on comparing these estimates with the estimates
voted for the three years immediately before the war will
admit that no charge can be more unfounded than that
made against the Government, that they wished to perpe-
tuate extravagant war establishments during a time of
peace, to alter the old constitutional system of the coun-
try, and by an enormous augmentation of our military
establishments to overawe the country and threaten the
liberties of the people. To such an extent did some of the
assertions go which were made on the first night of the
session. (Hear, hear.) As the estimate for £he packet
service enters into the navy estimates, the committee
will see that not every charge in those estimates is needed
for military or belligerent purposes. The estimate for
the foreign packet service in 1851 was 809,0001.,
in 1852 it was 870,0001., and in 1853, 835,0001, 11
has increased this year to 965,000/. Now, the foreign packet
service, though of great importance to the mercantile in-
ti rests of this country, has nothing to do with our military
affairs. Whenever there is a question of the increase in the
number of ships employed in that service, or of a Dam e fre-
quent and rapid delivery of letters, the Treasury is urged
,by the strongest representations from various gentlemen
engaged in foreign and domestic trade to increase the ex-
p.:raider° under that head, and is only restrained from
going too far by a fear that the estimates will be objected
to by this house. The estimates for the army and navy
have not been considered in a committee of supply, an l it
may therefore be convenient that I should, without under-
taking to anticipate the labours of my right hon. friend
the First Lord of the Admiralty, or of my hon. friend the
Under Secretary of State for the War Department, briefly
mention some few of the causes which have led to an in-
crease in them for the ensuing year over those for the year
itnusediately preceding the war. In the navy estimates
there has been an increase in the marines and in the
Coastguard force. The increase in the latter force was
made in pursuaece of an act of Parliament, passed last ses-
sion, by which it was transferred from the department of
themacot s
twCgaus,sitato oimias to that of the Admiralty. The object of that
createdo f
e aornneseravne nopavinailonforucepo.n
theThosesnwb
jheontwap
ere
.
proved the creation of that force. Two gentlemen of great
authority in this house, who have filled the office of First
t rd of the Admiralty—viz., my right hon. friends the
wasm, n
moresbc ehres tuft,
ehi ra,Ca
n,
aerl
assented s!e a
regarded
n
oba ys tahe Portsmouth,legitimateopposite
assented
side to it,
of
ft
huop
0 hanonudtshie
t
whole, an economical means of increaour navy in a
and,
time of' peace. It, however, led to increased expenditure,
and part, therefore, of the increase in the present navy'
estimates must be regarded as the result of the act of last
ssssion. The increased price of 'revisions, as Compared
with the years immediately preceding the war, leads to
sonic increase both in the army and navy estimates. There
is also an increase in the scientific vote for the navy, That
surely
cannot be regarded as likely to lead to results den-
gerous to our liberties. Then there are contracts for tim-
ber, which were made during the war, which have not yet
been fulfilled, but which will cause some additional ex-
pense dining the ensuing year. The committee must ba
well aware that, as it was impossible to foresee the termi-
nation of the war, it was necessary that the Government
should provide for its possible continuance; and, there-
fore, while the war was raging, the Government had to
enter into contracts upon the assumption that it might
last for some years. Peace being happily concluded, the
Government must ether allow those contracts to be ful-
filled or pay a forfeit. Either of these courses will en-
tail seine expense. Thera is an increase in the item of
steaw ruachinery for the screw fleet, and also in the item
of coals, in consequence of the progressive introduction of
ste.in in the navy. That, I fear, must bo considered
Tuaatten permanent charge iu the navy estimates, ines-
n as navigation by steam is itself more expensive
charge than naeoirtion by sails. There is also an increased
f the erection of naval factories for the re-
pair of machinery
u:aus.atgnaa:i,,mtiedefioorofefe:large steamers ; and like-
wise
n:lca
belereaiserftement of docks, basins, and slips to
ladirthe
amounting to 450,0001 hips. The result is, that in-
g the there are in the present oar y
rgo for manning and victualling
ostimatee an incre,
amounting to about 400;00n increased charge for stores
01., for works about 3(.0,0, 01.,
for miscellaneous 30,0001., making
for dockyards 200,0001.,
which is the increase above
tahlteogeetthilatesst,imfoorf
1185,3d20:000,Ind now with regard to ti e
army estimates, about which hon. gen tlenfien no. doubt,
ith4 designs 01
setertained the greatest appeeleensioee o
the Government. Leaving out the militia, 14.6
mates for 18534 amounted to 9,592,0001. ; those for
ensuing year amounted to 11,225,000 e, showing an increase
of 1,611,000!. e
Now, this is an explanation of the pr;-
cipal seines) of the increase. In the first place there is en

eacordieg to the obligation, fited by acts of Parliament, ;
also
a b
le become
in
185 payable l
equale n l
aBll-1:
7 amount ta ikw
haw in force, there are Exchequer•bonds to the extent of
2a
infrunni. ao payable
' which
in 1859 ; and a further sum of 1,000,0001. in 1860. In ad- j
oln e equalse
dition to this there is a sinking fund for war loans, for
which the charge on the Consolidated Fund in 1857 will
amount to 250,000/. ; in 1858 to 1,500,000/. ; and in each
of the two following years the sum will also be 1,500,0001.;
making for the four years between 1e57 and 1860 the fol-
lowing total amounts :-2,250,000/. for 1857, 3,500,000/.
for 1858, 3,500,0001. for 1859, and 2,500,0001. for 1860.
Besides these repayments in the nature of a sinking
fund, there is also, as I have said, an additional sum
f-r interest of 1,460,0001. in 1857, 1,360,0001. in
1858, and 1,220,0001. in 1859. Now this series of obli-
gations in the shape of annual interest and repayments
of the principal of the debt has, unfortunately,
disturbed the settlement entered into in 1853—a settlement
which had every prospect of a satisfactory issue if we had
remained at peace, but the basis of which was altogether
deranged by the stern reality of subsequent events. Since
the year 1853 not only has a large additional charge in the
way of interest :on debt and repayment of the principal
been imposed on the resources of the country for the next
four years, but during the same interval large remissions
of taxation have been made, materially diminishing the
public revenue. So that, while we have increased our
expenditure, we have concurrently lost part of our income.
In 1854 an alteration was made in the duty on bills of ex-
change, by which a reduction of 150,000/ was effected. In
the same year there was a diminution of 200,0001. in the
produce of the assessed taxes. In the following year an
annual sum of 260,0001. was sacrificed by the abolition of
the newspaper stamp duty, after making due allowance
for the increased receipts derived by the Post-office in con-
sequence of that remission. In 1855 another remission
which was much pressed on the Government, and had many
advocates on both sides of the house, was made by the Go-
vernment in compliance with the general wish expressed
on the subject. I allude to the reduction of the duty upon
stage carriages, involving a loss of 60,000/, per annum to
the revenue. The total amount, therefore, of the remis-
sions of taxation made since 1853 is 760,0001. I conceive,
then, that the hands of this house are perfectly free to deal
with this question at the present time, and that Parliament
cannot deem itself in any way tied up by an arrangement
made on an assumption, which I wished as sincerely as any
one had been supported by the result, but which was un-
happily falsified by the subsequent course of events: I
now come, Sir, or rather I approach more closely(cheers)
—to thb arrangements of taxation for the ensuing year, and
I will trouble the house with some explanation oa the subject
of direct or indirect taxation, upon which those arrange-
ments mainly tarn. I think there is an exaggerated ielea as
to the amount of direct taxation which is now levied upon
the country. The current of feeling runs strongly, as it
seems to late against any form of direct taxes. (Opposi-
tion cheers.) Such a feeling appears to be expressed in
many quarters. One mode of trying the justice of that
feeling is to examine what are the relative amounts levied
by direct and indirect taxation. I think this is an impor-
tant matter, bearing in a most direct and practical manner
on the solution of the question which is about to engage
the attention of the house. (Hear, hear.) The amount of
those taxes which constructively bear the name of direct
taxes is not large, if we put oat of view the war income
tax. The war income tax is no doubt principally owing
to the exigency of circumstances ; but, that being put out
of consideration, and reverting to the income tax as it was
originally imposed by Sir R. Peel, the house must, I
think, be of opinion that the amount of direct taxes,
strictly so called, is by no means considerable. I have
divided the taxation of the country into three classes. I
have.taken first those direct taxes which are paid at fixed
periods—that class of taxes to which alone French finances
give the nuns of direct taxes. They do not give the
name of direct taxes to those taxes which seem to me to
deserve the name, though they are not paid at stated and
• as-
sessed taxes 2,000,000 e, the income tax 7,100,000 e ,
fixed periods. The land-tax produces 1,150,0)0/. the
mak-
ing altogether 11,250,000/. That is the total amount of
the direct taxation of this country where taxes are paid at
fixed periods, assuming the rate of income tax to be as it
existed before the war. There is also another class of
taxes, which, although direct taxes in point of incidence,
are not complained of as being oppressive, inasmuch as
they are not paid in the same compulsory manner, or at
stated periods, but according to the wants of the taxpayer.
There is no doubt, however, they are direct taxes, and fall
in direct incidence on property. The whole revenue
from stamps, probate, legacy, and succession duties is
7,450,000/. With regard to the succession duty, it seems
to me, great misunderstanding prevails. I have heard it
stated that the succession duty is a heavy burden on landed
property, that it tends teethe confiscation of the estates
of landowners--(cheers from the Opposition)—that it
forms a great and Material' increase to the direct tax-
ation of the country, and that it may be considered almost
as another income tax. (Renewed Opposition cheers.) The
present amount of the succession duty is about 500,0001.
a-year. It is anticipated that, increasing by slow degrees,
it will rise to maturity about 1863, and it is estimated that
it will then produce 1,200,000/. a-year. Another tax un-
doubtedly direct in its incidence is postage. (Cries of
"No !") Well ;it must be enumerated among direct
taxes, but it is a tax for which every person gets an equi-
valent, and a very sufficient equivalent—(hear, hear)—and
therefore I only enumerate it among this class of taxes for
the sake of completeness. Postage produces 3,000,0001.
The second class of direct taxes gives this result :—Stamps,
probate, legacy, and succession duties. 7,450,0001.; postage,
3,010,000/.—making together, 10,450,000/. The total of
these two classes of direct taxes is 20,700,0001. The total
of the indirect taxes—namely, Customs and Excise, is
39,850,0001., and therefore the indirect taxes are about
double the amount of the direct taxes, assuming the in-
come tax at its original amount, and allowing 3,000,0001.
for postage. I regret to have to trouble the house with
many of these statements, but I need scarcely say this is a
material fact, bearing on the queition before us as to the
relative magnitude of the direct and indirect taxes of the
country. (Cheers.) There are some gentlemen who, not-
withstanding the general desire to diminish direct taxes,
and especially to remove the war rate of the income tax,
say that they would wish to keep up the income and other
direct taxes to a considerable amount, for the purpose of
reducing certain indirect taxes, pressing, as they think,
with great severity on the trade and industry of the coun-
try. One of these is the paper duty, and I received, net
many days aap, a deputation headed by the right hon. gen-
tleman the member for Manchester, who pressed on the
consideration of the Government the reduction of that
duty. The duty falls on three classes of paper
namely, paper used for printing, paper used for
writing, and paper used for packing—and being charged,
not accordihg to value, but according' to weight, finan-
cially speaking the burden is by far the heaviest on the
large quantity which is used for the purpose of packing.
Instead of being more oppressive on that class of paper
which leads my right hon. friend to denominate it a tax
on knowledge, it falls more heavily on the two other de-
scriptions. But, with regard to packing and writing
papers, I confess I do not see that those descriptions, in
the present state of our revenue and expenditure, are not
proper subjects of taxation. (Cheers from the Opposition.)
With regard to paper used for the purpose of printing, we
must consider not merely the demands of the manufac-
turer, but what will be the probable advantage to the
consumer. I confess, having carefully considered the sub-
ject, I do not believe that the total abolition of the paper
duty would produce to the ordinary purchaser of books
and newspapers any appreciable advantage. (Cheers from
the Opposition.) Therefore, Sir, without at all denying the
claims of the paper duty being considered at a time when
our expenditure may be less and our revenue ipay be
greater, I cannot admit that at the present moment it is a
proper subject fur reduction. (Hear, hear.) There is
another article the duty on which some persons wish to
see diminished. The hon. member for Pontefract (Mr.
Oliveira) has given notice of a motion for a committee to
inquire with a view to a reduction of the duty on wine,
(Laughter.) I do not think it at present necessary to go
into that subject. From accidental and natural causes the
productie i of wine has undergo.ae a great diminution. The
exports of spirits from this country have increased in con-
sequence. Instead of the continent being enabled to give
us a redundant supply of, wine, we are exporting spirits to
supply their demands. This would not, therefore be a
happy moment for the trial of an experiment which I am
sure my hon. friend himself must regard as somewhat
perilous. (Cheers.) There is only one other duty
to •which I will refer. It is one which interested
many gentlemen last session, and which was brought
forward for discussion in this House —I mean the duty
on fire insurance. I have lately laid upon the table
duringeuxrrieaitaat
ooietsfahef
oaedt
roc rpaarerrrecroeaepifl
vsuiesisl;dcgyoa,nanpftsdroioard
property—that
c6m—whnietrl
judgment
ftaafitston:oidtei
a report upon this subject. I have caused it to be care-
fullyffwi oaoilrsitm wish to
a.
etobt
xecrfieotransferupr investigate)eo.teitTyhheauel
pt
materials
oraetntas
the question, which did not exist in an authentic and offieial
question has been to convince me that it is a duty which
icsiraoodmuteytawnhoeicehofadthaepttsaxitsp
it ought to receive the support of those gentlemen who
taxpayer, which
withhiesihngteulhaeravfeileiectitviyhtemo
the
insurance is lightest, and lightest when the insurance is
heaviest, and which has advanced in its contribution to
the revenue with a steady progression for a great number
of years. I confess I can see no ground whatever for ac-
ceding to the propositions which have been made for the
reduction of that duty, and, so far as lam able to judge,
I believe it to be one of the last duties which ought to be
relinquished. (Murmurs from behind the Ministerial
benches.) lam sorry to differ from hon. gentlemen upon
this subject. but I must ask them to suspend their judg-
ment until they leeve had an opportunity of reading the
reiaert to which I have referred, in which the matter is
treated at great length, and with great candour and ability.
At all events, if the conclusion at which I have arrived be
distasteful to hon. members behind me, I assure them that
I have only come to it after a careful consideration of the
subject, and I think that they can hardly—at all events,
for the present—press for the abolition of the duty on fire
insurances. In dealing with the taxation of the coming
year I shall propose, therefore, to confine myself to those
taxes which were imposed during the war, and I shall not
make any modifications of any other portion of our tax-
ation than that which-underwent revision during the war.
In proposing the modifications which I am about to do I
would bear in mind the dictum of a writer whose opinion
I think should command some authority in this house—a
writer who is in no degree obnoxious to the charge of
being
a speculator or a theorist, but who is a practical
man, conversant with various branches of economy,
and particularly with agricultural economy—l mean
Arthur Young, whose travels in England, Ireland, and
France are doubtless well known to the members of this
house. After
pointing out what are in his opinion the
principal attributes which a system of taxation ought to
alitgyoo ind thee y burdeneteor
possess, and d welling especially upon the importance of
equality, he makes the following observations i—" The
mare
aarre.circumstence of taxes being very nuneerous, in order
use a given sum, is a considerable step towards equa-
tfaaellaintigon it shouldollthePeopiebe etfhlawt
of bearingastodefine
lightly on an infinite number of heavily
points,on non .
In other words, that •
simplicity tatation is the greatest
additional weight that can be given to taxes• and ought in
every country to be most sedulously avoided." Now; sir, that opinion, though
presentseems to contrary te titian that we hear at the
a Most useful preepcal
me to be full •of wisdom, and to be
tern of taxation. guide in the arrangement of a sys-
I think it /lA, will now go through the taxes, to which
In the to call theattOntion Of the tiotiimittee,
ne- efls
there is the duty on spirits, in which a
esotalient increase was laid during the war, and which
may be reckoned on e,prodocine
g a permanent addition t
the revenue of about 1,500,01:0/. a year. It was imposed
as a permanent tax, and it does not cease upon the termi-
nation of the war. I thick that the committee will agree
with me that spirits are legitimate objects of taxation at a
time when a large revenue is reqaired, subject to Vie mei-
ditiorr that the rate of duty does not lead to illicit distil-
lation: (Hear, hear.) Illicit dietillation is so great an
s,eva, eind it so demoralises the couhtry in 'which it prevails,
ley producing lawless habits, that any amount of revenue
is dearly purchased at the cost of promoting illicit distilla-
tion. Hitherto, however, it has not been found that the
present rate of duty either in Ireland or Scotland has led
to illicit distillation. I can assure the committee that this
is a subject to which I am quite alive, and so long as I

TIIE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY l4, 1857.

have the honour to held my pfeeetit office, it is one which I •
shall most carefully watch with a vie* to fiiscover any in•
crease in its practice ; but while wattere remain in their
present position see no reason for proposing any altefa-
tion in the spirit duties. The next duty which I must
a Iv. rt, to is the duty upon malt. Last J'dar there w .8 a loss
upon malt to the amount of 200,000/. The duty ceased
upon the sth of July last, but on account of the long credit
given a portion of the War duty became payable last year.
In the ensuing year the entire effect of the remission of the
war duty upon malt will be experienced, and it will occa-
sion a loss of about 2,000,000/. The additional war duty
is now removed. I now come to the income tax-(cheers)
-and I will first inform the committee of the present po-
sition of that tax. It was imposed for the purpose of re-
venue in 1842, at the rate of 7d. in the pound upon incomes
above 150/. a-year, for three years. It was renewed in
1'45, and again in 1818, for the two triennial periods, at
the same rate. It therefore continued for nine years,
being renewed-at triennial periods, at the rate of 7d. in the
pound on all incomes above 150/. a-year,-incomes below
that amount being exempted. In 1851 a similar renewal
at the same rate and for the same period was proposed by
my right hon. friend the present First Lord of the Admi-
ralty, but it met with a good deal of opposition on the
ground of the mode of assessment, and, in deference to the
prevalent opinion of the house, it was renewed only for
one year, and a select committee was appointed to inquire
into the mode of assessment. I ought to state that my
noble friend the member for the city of London, was then
at the head of the Government, while he assented to the
appointment of the committee, objected to so large a por-
tion of the revenue being made to depend upon an annual
act. In 1852 the income tax was renewed at the same rate
by the Government of Lord Derby, but it was renewed for
only a year in consequence of the peculiar position of that
Government, which did not allow them to propose any
important renewal or change of taxation. I now come to
1853. In that year the income tax was fixed at 7d. in the
pound for two years from the sth of April, 1853 • at 6d. in
the pound for two years from the sth April, 1855; and at
sd. for three years from the sth April, 1857; so that if the
war had not intervened the tax now current would have
been 6d. in the pound, and for three years from sth April,
1857, it would have been sd. in the pound. Therefore, what
is called " the war:9d." is in fact the difference between
the tax as it stood at the commencement of the war and the
tax as it stands at present. By the same act of 1853 the
income tax was extended to Ireland, and it was also extended
to incomes above le 0/. and less than 150/. at sd. ,in the
pound. The war now supervened, and the result was that
the income tax did not fall from 7d. to 6d. ; on the con-
trary, in 1854 it was increased from 7d. to 14d. and from
sd. to 10d. in the pound-that is to say, it was raised to
14d. on incomes above 150 t.; and tolod. on incomes between
150/. and 1001. At the same time it was continued at those
rates till the 6th of April next after the ratification of a
treaty of peace. But in 1855 the tax was increased to ltid.
and 11441.-in other words, 2d. was added to the 14d. awl
10. to the 10d. It was continued during the war " and
until"-these are the words upon which so many comments
have been made-" the 6th of April which shall first hap-
pen after the expiration of one year from the ratification of
a definitive treaty of peace." That, sir, is the present state
of the income tax. For the present year it stands at is.
4d. in the pound upon incomes above 1501., and at lleal.
upon incomes between 1501. and 100/.' and it is continued,
by the operation of the words which I have read, for ano-
ther year, commencing on the 7th of April next. It would
fall for the following two years to sd. in the pound, and
then altogether expire. That is the legal position of the
income tax. It has been supposed that there was some
design or reason on the part of the Government for making
a distinction between the income tax and the duties on tea,
sugar, and coffee. I can assure the committee that the dif-
ference in the wording of the acts was not at all the result
of design; it was the result of a mere accident, and owes
its existence to a singular coincidence of dates, which it
was impossible for the Government to foresee when the acts
were passed. According to the act passed in 1854 the pre-
sent rates of the income tax were to continue until the 6th
of April next after the ratification of pease. Consequently
if the treaty had been ratified on the sth of April, the tax
would have ceased a day after the ratification. The com-
mittee .nust be aware from the statement I have already
Imade that war expenditure does not cease with
active hostilities; but that it is necessary for the Govern-
ment to be provided with funds, or else to appeal to Par-
liament to meet that expenditure which, though not fall-
ing within the period of hostilities, fairly and properly be-
longs to the time of war; Therefore, in raising the in-
come tax the words which I have read were inserted inthe
act. It was intended to levy the tax at the increased rates
during the remainder of the financial year, whatever that
remainder might be, in which the treaty of peace might be
ratified, and for one clear year beyond that period. The
word " ratification" of a treaty of peace occurred in a
former income tax act, and was transferred to the act of
1854, but it did pot occur in the Customs and Excise Act.
In that act the words used kvere that the duties on tea,
sugar, and coffee should contintie during the war, " and
until the sth of April inclusive Which shall first happen
after the end of Li months from 'the date of a definitive
treaty of peace with Russia." . Instead of using the word
" ratification" as in the Income tax -Act, the words" date"
was inserted in the Customs and Excise Act. That diffe-
rence of expression arose from an inadvertence, not from
design. It sohappened, however; that the treaty of peace
was signed on' the 30th of March, but the ratifications were
not exchanged till the 7th of April, and therefore the sth
of April, the day mentioned in "the Customs and Excise
Act, intervened between the signature and the ratification
of the treaty-in event altogether impossible to foresee. I
have endeavoured to ascertain what is the exact import of
the phrase, " the date of a treaty," and have been informed
that, properly sneaking, it means the date of the signature,
and not the date of the ratification ; although the treaty
takes effect only from the latter period. Owing, therefore,
to this accidental difference in the language of the two acts,
it was held that the additional duties en tea, sugar, and
coffee would expire on the sth of April next, whereas the
income tax would last for another year. Such is the simple
explanation of a, subject which has occupied so much of the
attention of the country. I *ill 'only add that although, in
answer to a question put to me by the hon. and learned
member for Wallingford, I !stated. what was the legal effect
of the accidental and undersigned phraseology of the In-
come-tax Act, I never for a moment entertained the idea
of asking the 'house to continue the tax longer than the ex-
igenciee of the public service would require it. (Rear,
hear.) Well,, Sir, as the law stands at present the sum
which the Exchequer would be entitled to receive from the
income tax would be 16d. for the ensuing year, and sd. for
each of the two following years; that is to say, it would be
entitled to receive 26d , each of which may be taken as re-
presenting 1,000,000/. sterling. Consequently, the total
sum payable' under the Income-tax Act is 26,000,0001.
The proposal which I have to make to the Committee,
looking to the increased charges upon the revenue for some
years to come owing to the debts contracted during the
war, and to the remission of taxation in the same period, is
to fix the income tax as it was originally fixed by Sir
Robert Peel, and 14 two subsequent periods, taking it for
the next three years at 7d. in the pound. (This announce-
ment was received with some cheering, which was speedily
converted into roars of laughter, when a large number of
hon. members on both sides rose from their seats and left
the house. The noise occasioned by their withdrawal hay•
ing subsided, the right hon: gentleman, who had joined in
the merriment, proceeded with his statement.) I am
sorry, Sir, to have to continue My explanation to an audi-
ence so greatly reduced in numbers-(a leueb)-neverthe-
less, I must state to- those who remain what will be the
effect of the proposed alteration. +The number of millions
to which the Exchequer would be 'entitled under the exist-
ing law is 26, distributed over the next three years. The
effect of the change which I. propose will be that:the Ex-
chequer will receive 21,000,000 e, being a diminution of
5,000,000/., spread over the satne.period. Another effect
will be that more than a-half of the tax will be remitted in
the ensuing year, for, whereas thepresent rate of the tax is
160. in the pound, I propose to reduce it to 70. 160. in the
pound is equal to 6/.135. Id. per cent. ; 70. in the pound to
2/. 18s. 4d.; and bd to 2/. ls. Bd. The difference, therefore,
between the rate at which I propose to, fix the tax and the
rate at which it would stand for the next two years, if no
alteration were made, is only 16s. Bd. per cent., 51. being
equal to-21. Is. lid. per cent. The committee will thus see
that, while the relief vented in the ensuing year will be
great and sensible, the additional charge in the two follow-
ing years will not be such as ,to be injuriously felt by the
country. The relief will not be confined to the class of in•
comes exceeding 150/. a-year. I propose to reduce the rate
of income-tax levied upon incomes between 100/. and le 0/.
a-year to the rate adopted in the original measure of my
right bon. friend,-namely, 50. in the pound, which will
amount to 2/. ls; Bd. per. cent. I believe the high war in-
come tan has pressed with great severity upon the class of
small incomes, and I think I can, explain why that has been
the case. My right hon. friend, in proposing this exten,
sion of the tax, expressed an opinion that he wculd not, as
he phrased it, " trench upon the territory of labour," for
he thought that by limiting the tax to amounts exceeding
100/. it would not affect any considerable number of per.
sons in receipt of weekly wages. I am unable to obtain an
exact account of the number of persons receiving weekly
wages who are contributors to the income tax; but I have
reason to believe that it is not less than 20,000. Persons
in receipt of 2/, a-week are liable to the tax, and the sum
of 4/. 15s. 10d, per annum, payable half-yearly, must have
been extremely burdensome to individuals in such a posi-
tion. (Rear.) The tax would become still more burden-
some if it fell into arrear, and if a person receiving only
2/. a-week was called upon to pay at once 4:. 15s. 10(14-
more than double his weekly earnings. The effect of the
change I propose will be that a person receiving 2/. a-week
will only be liable to an income tax of 21.15. Bd. per annum,
which is about 1/. half-yearly, and therefore the reduction
will afford great relief to the possessors of small incomes,
and must have the effect of, diminishing the objections felt
in many "quarters to this part of, the tax. There is, how-
ever, another war tax with which I shall propose to deal,
but with regard to which I cannot pursue the course I have
suggested in the case of the income-tax-I allude to the duty
upon tea and sugar. The duty upon tea is for the pre-
sent year Is. 90. per lb., and by the existing law it would
fall to is. 21 on the Ist April next, and to Is. for the next
and succeeding years. The duties 01.1Dksugar ara also arranged
upon a similar plan of reduction. It happeps that at this
moment the stock of sugar is very low, and it cannot there-
fore be expected that a reduction in the price of that article
consequent upon the dithinution of. the duty would be at-
tended with any great increasid,of consumption. The same
remark applies 'to tea, inasmuch as recent events at Canton
have imposed obstacles' to future exportations. With re-
gard, therefore, to both these articles it cannot be expected
that a considerable reduction of duty would be followed by
any material increase of consumption in the course of the
next year. The diminution I,propose in the rate of the
income tax will lead to a great reduction of the revenue,
not so much iri the present year as in the two succeeding
years. The difference bet Ween a tax of 7d. in the pound
and one of 16d:would involve adimination of revenue te
the amount of 6,000,000/., which Would leave a deficieu
income as aomparad with the probable expenditure of the
country. I therefore intend to propose a new scale for the
reduction of the duties upon tea and sugar, rendering the
diminution somewhat slower than it would be under the
existing law,
and thus providing for a more gradual distil-
notion of the revenue, I will etato what are the duties I •
Iwopose to adopt a-The duty on tea now stands at is. 9.1.
per lb, propose that for the next year, 1857.8, it shall be
is. 70. ; for 1858-9, lie sd. ; for 1859.60, ls. 3d., and that
from that period it shall be 18, The present uty on re-
fined sugar is :20s. per cwt. I propose that next year it
shall fall to 18s. 4d. ; in the following year to 16s. Bd. ; in
1859 to 15si, and in subsequent years to 13s, 4d. The duty
on brown sugar is no* 13s. 9.1., and I propose that in 1857
it shall be 12s 80. ; in 1858, lls. Bd. ; in 1859-60, 108. 70.,
anal that after that pfriod it.shall be 9s fid. The duty on
yellow sugar is at present 155.., anal I propose that it shall
be 13s. 100. in 1857, 12s. 91. in 1858, Ils. 80. in 1859, and
subsequently 10s. 6al. I willuow state to the committee
the estimated 'revenue for the ensuing year. I estimate
the Customs at 22,850,001., the Excise at 17,000,000/., the
stamps at 7,450,0001.,. the land and assessed taxes et
3,150,000 e, and the income tax at 11,450,0004 . The cons-
eliqtee must recollect, however, that owing to' arrears
which are still due, a considerable amount of the high rate
of income tile will be receivable in the present year, and
the full ekes.
-t t
of,tes he reduction will not
office twilit the
' It that the Post-oce yield
Year ollsbing. te're:a
l ends 265,000/ and miscellaneous
3,000,000 e, the Crosse

items 1,200,0'0!., making a total of 66,365,000/. The total
expenditure and discharge of liabilities I estimate at ;
65,474,000/., and there will thus be a probable surplus of
891,000'„ which is not more than it will be prudent to
Merit, for the contingent expenditure of VI,- year. The
total amount, of taxation which I propose to taxe off in the
present year will be found in the following table :
" Malt tax, loss in 1857-8 (in addition to 200,0001. in
1856-1) 2,000,000/. ; income tax (to be reduced to 7d. and
5d.), 9,125,0001, ; tea (to be reduced from ls. 9d. to is. 7d.
per lb.), 369,0001. ; coffee (to be reduced from 4d. to 3d.
per lb.), 135,000/. ; sugar (to be reduced from an average of
14s. 4d. to 13s. 4d.), 342,0001.; total reduction, 11,'+71,0001."
Of this total of 11,971,000/., about 7,600,0001. will be a de-
duction from the Exchequer receipts for the ensuing year,
1857-8. If the committee should adopt the plan which I
have proposed I believe that sufficient revenue will be
provided to meet the liabilities of the Exchequer for the
payment of the bonds due in the three years commencing
from the Ist of April, for the extinction of the sinking
fund, and also for the payment of the increase interest on
the debt, leaving some margin for any slight increase in
the army, navy, or civil service estimates, beyond the
amount at which they now stand. If the liabilities created
by the 40,000.000/. of debt contracted during the war
should be discharge according to the plan which has been
laid down by Parliament, and according to that which
I am now proposing for the next three years, and if fur-
ther accruing liabilities should be met by a corresponding
provision, I calculate that the entire debt created by the
war will have been extinguished by the year 1877. More
than half of the extraordinary expenditure of the war was
defrayed from taxation, the remaining half by loans ;
and this portion, as I have just said, if the arrangement I
purpose is adopted, will be extinguished in about 20 years.
It seems to me that such a state of things affords a favour-
able retrospect of the arrangements ma-le during this war.
(Hear.) It show& the greater providence of the present
generation, and if our ancestors had treated us as well as
we are about to treat posterity we should not at the pre-
sent time be loaded with the burden of a debt of
800,030,010/. (Hear, hear.) Imu afraid I have detained
the committee at an unreasonable length, but they must be
aware that in the discharge of important duties such as that
which I have just attempted to discharge it is important
that every material fact bearing upon the questioc at issue
should be laid before those with whom the decision rests,
and I would rather incur the charge of tediousness and pro-
lixity than fail to submit to the consideration of the com-
mittee any matters which may be necessary or useful to
guide their judgments. (Hear.) Ido not believe that I
have troubled them with anything with is immaterial to
the matters under consideration. With regard to the plan
which I have proposed, being, as I know it is, dictated by
public motives, and being intended to conduce to the gene-
ral welfare of the country, I do net doubt that it will re-
ceive a dispassionate and impartial consideration, and
that hon. gentlemen will form their judgment upon it, not
with any reference to the side of the house on which they
sit, but with more enlarged views, and with a sense of the
responsibility under which we labour in making a provision
so important for the future happiness and prosperity of the
community. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman
(having spoken about two hours and three-quarters) con-
cluded by moving that a sum not exceeding 2,000,000% be
granted to her Majesty to meet the payments due on ac-
count of Exchequer-bonds.
The CHAIRMAN having put the qUestios,
Mr. GLADSTONE said —I am aware that it is the usual
practice to abstain from discussing in detail the various propo-
sitions of the budget on the night it is brought forward, and
considering the comprehensive nature of the statement which
my right hon. friend has made, and the gravity of much of
the matter which it contains, I have never known an occasion
on which it would be more inexpedient to depart from that
rule. I have no intention, therefore, of making any remarks
upon the important questions which arise out of my right
hon. friend's speech. My only object in rising now is to ask
him one or two questions as to matters of fact, and also to
express a hope that, as the resolution which he has just moved
seems to form a portion of the policy of the budget, he will
not ask us to give a vote upon it to-night. It does not refer
to the execution of any contract immediately pending; but
it does form part of the policy which this house will have to
decide upon, and, therefore, before taking any vote upon it,
time ought to be given to allow-of a calm and impartial con-
sideration of his whole scheme. (Hear.) When my right
hon. friend spoke of the sum of 150,0001. as being the loss
consequent upon the change in the law respecting bills of
exchange, I. presume that before charging that loss he took
credit for the proceeds of the stamps on foreign bills of ex-
change. My right hon. friend spoke of the loss of 285,0001.
upon assessed taxes in the -year 1854-5, as a loss which was
to be reckoned in the light of an addition to the remissions
since 1853. In answer to that I beg to assure my right hon.
friend that that loss was distinctly included in the calcula-
tions of 1853, and was before the house when those proposals
were made. I wish, also; to ask my right hon. friend a
question with respect to the table which he has given us of
the proposed relief to consumers. He spoke of a loss of
2,000,0001. on the malt tax as included in his proposal, but,
if I understand rightly the state of the law, that loss of
2,000,0001. does not depend upon any proposal of his, but is
one of the consequences of the law as it now standi, and there-
fore does not form part of any loss which we are going to in-
flict upon the consumer. My right hon. friend also spoke of
a loss upon tea, coffee, and sugar; but, if. I understand the
state of the case rightly, as regards tea and sugar, he is not ping
' to lose money,but to gain it—that is, he is going to impose upon
those articles a duty, lower certainly than that which is levia-
' ble at the present moment, but higher than that which would
be leviable after the sth of April next according to the present
law, and therefore it is not a question of granting relief from
taxation upon tea and sugar, but it is, as far as it goes, a ques-
tion of increasing the rates of duties payable upon those com-
modities. If that be so, I think it would be for cur convenience
if my right hon. friend, having stated the ease one way—hav-
ing shown the loss which will be sustained in the reduction
from the war rate of duties—would supply us with figures
showing the gain he expects to realise from his new duties as
compared with those which would take effect under the pre-
' sent law. I confess I should like to knoW the calculations of
my right hon. friend on these points, They comprise matters
merely of fact ; all discussion upon the case I propose to re-
serve. It would be therefore cotiveagent, as well as; I think, in
accordance with usage, not to take a vote upon the resolution
• to-night, (Hear, hear.)

Mr. ALCOCK hoped that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would not be induced, either by what he had heard in that
house, or by what had occurred out of doors, to lower the in-
come tax beyond the amount he bad announced to-night, for
he believed that if the question were to be decided by the
working millions in this country, instead of by the holders of
property in that house, it would be in favour of taxation of all
incomes from beginning to end.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said there was one point which
he could not clearly understand. Did the. Chancellor of the
Exchequer estimate that the whole expense of the Persian war
would fall upon this part of the empire ? There was something
like 265,0001., and somebody would have to pay it. He would
like to know on what basis the calculation.was. made ?
Mr. WARNER thought it would • be very desirable to have
some information as to what was intended to be done with the
income tax at the end of three years. The people were disposed
to put up with it for two or three years tenger• at the rate at
which it would now be levied, but if they were to understand
that it would become an ordinarytax it would prove an endless
source of dissatisfaction and ill will to the.-Government.
Mr. WILLIAMS expressed his approiral of the clear and
intelligible manner in which the Chiheellor of the Exchequer
had laid his financial statement before tire house. The right
hon. gentleman had made some Observations- upon the sug-
gestion of bringing within the tango of the income tax per-
sons who had less than 150/. a-year • but he could assure the
house that the pressure which the- tax—already exerted upon
those persons with that income was perfectly incredible, and
he would feel it his duty to oppose any attempt which might
be made to tax incomes less than 1501. •
Sir F. BARING inquire d whether the lost'on the malt duty
was 2,000,000/., without including the drawback, or nearly
3,000,0001. including it.
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER said that
2,000,0001. was below the highest amount.
Sir F. BARING expressed a hope that the right hon. gen-
tleman would state upon what day he proposed to take the
resolutions, so that the house might know when the debate
might come off.
After a few words from Mr. BLACHBVILY, Mr. B. COCHRANE,
and Mr. HADFIELD,

Mr. ALEXANDER HASTIE said h• would have preferred,
instead of the proposed varying duties on tea, that a uniform
duty of Is. sd. in the pound for three years had been pro-
posed, and Ils. Bd. per cwt. on sugar for the same period.
There would have been no loss, btit rather an advantage, to
the revenue by this plan, ,and it would have been more satis-
factory to the trade.

Mr. MURROUGH observed that no Idinister could have re-
signed a tax more ungracefully than the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. If they would act fairy* to the nation, abolish the
income tax altogether.
Mr. W. EWART supported the plan which had been sug-
gested by the Chancellor of the Exchequevwith regard to the
tea and sugar duties. He thought that the income tax was
condemned by the sense of the country, but that a certain
amount of property tax ought to be retained.
Mr. BLACK believed that the plan of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would give very general satisfaction..
Mi
.DiBßoAt theELlasked w tlier.itr-wasess
htishe resteenluttiioensosf
Chancellorthat.
evening I • •
xch eqhueer to p
Tho CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied in the
negative.
Mr. DISRAELI said that, in consequence of that assurance,
he should abstain at present from making any comments upon
them.
Mr. OLIVEIRA thought, upon :a review of the state of the
trade, that the time had arrived when a reduction in the
duties on foreign wines would be desirable; in other respects
he approved of tho Chancellor of the Exchequer's arrange.
ments.
Mr. WILSON, with respect to the question of the tea and
sugar duties, thought that all those hon. gentlemen who
had differed from his right hon. friend the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would find that the objections they entertained
were rather applicable to their own plans. Any large reduc-
tion in the duty upon an article was always found by experi.
ence to disturb very materially the trade in that article; in-
asmuch as, for a long time previous to the reduction, persons
were in the habit of withdrawing from transactions, whereas,
if the reduction was small, the motive for disturbance was not
so great. He had the authority of Sir T. Fremantle for, the
observation, that in dealing with sugar duties, exactly in
proportion as the changes in the duty were gradual was the
amount of inconvenience to trade less. As the law now stood,
the duties would be remitted in two years—one half of the war
duty would expire on the sth April next, the other half on the
sth April following. By the proposed arrangement the change.
would be less sudden.
Mr. BARING id' ,hat the'

.r. said he must make the observation tha..
speeches on the opposite side of the hone() had been xuade as
if the Government were according a favour to the country in,
reducing their duties, whereas the dealers in tea and sugall
had been, to a certain extent, deluded by Government, who
had, in fact, imposed upon them additional taxes to pay.
After a few words from Mr. WILSON iu explanation. - '
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEOER. said that the
,arrangement with the Sardinian Government as to the loan;
with respect to the payment of the interest at 31. per cent.
and the formation of a sinking fund of It. per cent., had bee 4
duly performed, and the Government had every reason to be 4
lieve that it would continue to be so. With respect to our
differences with Persia, negotiations were pending, as had
been stated, with the Persian Minister at Paris, and her Ma.
jesty's Government had reason to hope that those negot:a...
tions would lead to a satisfactory arrangement of the Persian
difficulty. (Hear; hear.) Under these circumstances th
Government certainly-were not entitled to presume
of course, on the existence of war in P u
ersia throghoutr exL
the
year, and all therefore that he proposed to ask for 7lt
:wr as
01l inttelda,iet
peuses, under the head of• Persia,
subsisting between the Go'.
vernment and the East India Company, become due before
the Ist of April next. He had no objectjon to lay before the
house a table showing the liabilities of the country on account
of the debts incurred for the late War. With reppeet to the
malt duty, the full effect of the reduction that had been made
wouLd be felt next year, and would then amount to about
2,000,000/. The right hon. gentleman concluded by thank-
ing the committee for their attention and considcration that
evening, and said that he would, with their permission,
re.