The Sun.
London, England, 1861-02-08 00:00:00

TRADE MARKS.

In reply to Mr. Bess,
Mr. M. GIBSON said that two bills had been prepared
on this subject, and would be introduced in a fortnight.
THE QUEEN'S SPEECH.

The Royal speech was considered, and the usual order
for supply was agreed to.

BANK OF ENGLAND (CONSOLIDATED FUND;

ACT.

The house having resolved itself into a committee on this
subject,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
rose for the purpose of moving resolutions on a subject of
considerable importance but they were not of a nature to
call forth any expression of the judgment of the house on
the most important parts of the plan that he should have
to propose. They were not resolutions containing the main
propositions of that plan, but resolutions required by the
house as a necessary preliminary to allow him to submit
that plan to the house. He should move two resolutions
for the purpose of altering the anode in which up to the
present time the Bank of England received payments from
the State on account of its management of the national
debt, and likewise the mode in which the Bank of Eng-
land made certain allowances to the State, first of all on
account of exemption from stamp duty upon its notes, and
secondly on account of the profit which it was estimated ,
the Bank of England derived from the issue of bank notes.
The mode in which that matter was regulated up to the'
present time was as follows :—The act of 1808 assigned to
the Bank of England, without any specified limitation of,
time, a certain rate of remuneration for its trouble and cost
in managing the public debt. The actiof 1844, introduced'
by Sir It. Peel, fixed the amount which the Bank of Eng-
land was bound to pay for its exemption from stamp duty
on bank notes. The amount was fixed under a certain rule
by which the bank was to pay upon the full amount of the
profits on its notes issued, and then it provided that the
sums due on these several accounts should be deducted from
the remuneration;payable to the bank on account of its,
management of the public debt. That rule in the act of 1844
would be pe:cfectly eouiformable with the mode of dealing
with the public revenue in use at the time ; according to
wb ich it was common, if the public convenience was served
thereby, to make large deductions from the public revenue
before it was brought to account in the exchequer. The
only question on which he asked the committee to give a
vote that night was this, that they should apply to those
transactions the principle established by the act of 1854
namely, this, that the allowance the bank made to the
state in respect of certain privileges, should be paid directly
to the state, and so constitute part of the public revenue.
On the other hand, the charge against the state in regard to
the cost of the management of the public debt should bei
likewise charged upon the consolidated fund, and which thel
bank should receive in gross, instead of receiving as it now
did the residue of that charge. It was, therefore, a very'
simple matter. With respect, however, to the subject of
certain communications between the Bank and the Govern-:
ment, the committee would be, probably, more or less aware,
they had embraced other changes. Those changes he!
thought would be more conveniently discussed when the
bill which he hoped to introduce would be before the house,
particularly as that bill would be very simple in its terms,
and carry on the face of it, in a great degree, its own expla-
'nation. He had only just presented to the house, in obe-
dience to its orders, certain papers whicli he thought would
make any further explanation unnecessary at that hour on
Ids part. Ile might, however, state, in a very few words,
what the general effect of the arrangement would be. There
were four points over and above the changes which he
would ask the committee to sanction by direct resolution as
to the method of settling the accounts. The four points
wore these. In the first place, he proposed to substitute a
specific period or term of years during which, on the one
band, the public, and, on the other, the Bank, should be
liable to pay and receive respectively a fixed rate of remune-
' ration for managing the national debt, in lieu of inserting
that in an Act of Parliament with a specified limit of time.
In the second place, it was proposed to change the basis on
which terminable annuities were now reckoned for the pure
pose of determining the remuneration to the Bank for
the management of the national debt. They were now
reckoned at 25 years' purchase, hereafter they would be
reckoned at 15 years' purchase when granted by Parliament
for a term exceeding 15 years, and 10 years when granted
SIT that term or a less term than that. He proposed, also, to
alter the rate of remuneration, and that course was the
point to which the attention of the house and the com-
mittee would be principally directed. He would not enter
then into a statement of the present or proposed rates, which
be thought hon. gentlemen would gather for themselves
from the papers now before them. The remuneration now
received by the Bank for managing, he thought, L'736,000,000
of the public debt was about £250,000 a year, and the new
rate would be as near as possible £200,000. The difference
of £50,000 would be a saving effected on the part of the
public; and lastly, in agreeing to reduce the rate of remu-
neration the Bank of England had likewise undertaken to
render increased service to the public—for they proposed
both to give new facilities for payment of the public divi-
dends at their branches in the country to those persons
who may wish to receive them, and likewise they proposed
greatly to shorten, if they could not altogether abolish,
those periods which were known as the periods of " shut-
ting," the shortening of which would, he believed, afford
rda
very material increase of facility and convenience in all
transactions connected with the funds. He did not at pre-
tient anticipate in any manner an expression of opinion from
the members of the committee upon this subject. They
would, he hoped, understand that if the papers had only
just been presented to them it was in fact because the docu-
ments n case try for that information were only completed
that morning, when a tneei ing of the proprietors of the
Bank of England was held for the purpose of considering
that arrangement. 'But although he asked for no expres-
sion of opinion, and although the resolutions he proposed
'involved no approach to an expression of opinion, yet he
certainly should not think it right to address the house,
even at that preliminary stage of the subject, without ex-
Pessing his hope that it would be thought that all things
considered this would be a fair and equitable arrangement,
and above all his strong sense of the cordial and con-
ciliatory manner in which the whole communications
connected with it have been conducted by the autho-
rities at the Bank, and the wise and enlightened spirit
in which they approached the con.sideratien of the ques-
tions, which would have been far more difficult if they
had been approached in a spirit more narrow and with a less
appreciation of the public interest. With that explanation 1
he should place in the hands of the chairman the two reso-
lutions relative to the method of account with the
Bankof
England. •
The following resolutions were then agreed to

That it is the opinion of this committee that
any sum.
which are or may be by law payable to the Governor --
nd
Campany of the Bank of England, on socount of the char ge
for management of the unredeemed public debt, shall hence
forward be pail without deduction out of the Consolidated
Fund of the United Kingdom."
" That it is the opinion of this committee that the pay-
ments now made by the Governor and Company of the Bank
a England, as prescribed by the A. ct of the ith and Bth of
Vie., cap, 32, by way of deduction from the charges of

management of the unredeemed public debt shall hencefor- I
ward be payable and paid by the said Governor and Com-
pany of the Bank of England as follows—that is say, the
sum of £60,000, being a composition for stamp d , ea to her
Majesty's Inland Revenue • and the whole allow nee out of
profits of issue, being at this present time £l2 078, to the
Exchequer, to form part of her Majesty's thiscellaneous
revenue."

POST-OFFICE SAVfNGS BANKS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER again rose,
and said he had now to propose another resolution, which
was also of a character strictly preliminary, and which re-

lated to a point entirely distinct from the former one, al-
though both were connected, and both involved considerable
liability for the Consolidated Fund. The resolutions which
he had now to propose related to a subject on which great
interest was felt in the country, and relative to which he
entertained a sincere hope there would not be found any ir-
reconcileable or -very serious difference of opinion. Her

Majesty's Government had been for some time back prepar-
ing a plan by means of which a very effective and easy ma-
chinery of the Post-office in connection with money orders
might be made available for effecting a great extension of
the facilities now—

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Massey) called the right hon.
gentleman to order. The present committee could only
consider a resolution relative to the Consolidated Fund.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
would then give notice for a committee fin* to-morrow.
The house then resumed.
PAROCHIAL RATING.
Sir G. C. LEWIS rose to ask for leave to introduce a bill
for the amendment of parochial assessment in England. He
did not intend to propose any alteration in the existing law
of rating, nor any alteration in the rules which determined
the liability of property to local rates, or which defined the
different proportions in which that liability affected different
kinds of property. He proposed to introduce an improve-
ment in the made of assessment. It was well known that
the present mode of assessment was defective, and it was in
the power of the parish officers to depart from the general
assessment of the parish, and to adopt an arbitrary assess-
ment of their own, and his object was to introduce greater
uniformity and greater certainty in the mode of making the
assessment on which rates were levied, and depriving parish
officers of the power of departing from the general assess-
ment. The measures would be confined to the poor rate
and the county rate. With regard to the county rate, he
proposed that the county justices should appoint a board of
their number, of not less than five or greater than 11, to be
called the assessment board of the county, and he proposed
a similar board for boroughs. These boards would be em-
powered to require returns from the parish officers, and to
enforce their production, and to examine witnesses. The
board would have the power to direct a revision of the lists,
and in case of necessity to appoint valuers whose valuation
would be open to inspection. Persons would be allowed 14
days to make objections, whitb. the board were to hear.
Appeals to the sessions would be allowed on questions of
law, but not on questions of fact or value. The valuation
so arrived at by those boards would be the assessment of
the respective parishes, and from that assessment the pa-
rish Officers could not depart, and upon it every rate would
have to be made until such valuation should be revised and
new property had grown up. In the discussion which had
taken place last year on this subject it would be recollected
it was stated that in rural parishes the assessments varied
from 10 to 20 per cent. below the proper rateable value.
The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving for leave
to bring in the bill.
Mr. DEEDES said he agreed it was desirable that a uni-
form system of rating should be established, as there were
very'great discrepancies in the existing system, especially
in the rural districts. With regard to the county rate he
could not gather that the proposed measure would materi-
ally amend the present system. In the county which he
had the honour to represent there was at this moment a
standing committee of the justices charged especially with
the supervision of the assessments of the different parishes,
in order to see that wherever new property had grown up,
or property had become of greater value, it was properly
assessed.

Sir G. C. LEWIS said the object he had in view was to
assimilate the system throughout the country.
In reply to Mr. S. ESTCOURT,
Sir G. C. LEWIS said the bill would not extend to high-
way rates.

Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
HIGHWAYS BILL.

Sir G. C. LEWIS moved for leave to introduce a bill for
the better management of highways. It was, he observed,
almost identical with the bill of last session. The great ex-
tension of the railway system had rendered improvement
absolutely necessary in the law with respect to highways,
for the highways had been entirely changed in their cha-
racter, and country roads that led to railway stations were
of more importance than those which were maintained
under turnpike acts.
After a short discussion,
Leave was given to introduce the bill.
THE BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Lord PALMERSTON then rose to move the following
resolution :—" That a select committee be appointed to con-
sider whether, by any alterations ix the forms and proceed-
ings of this house, the despatch of public business can be
more effectually promoted." The noble lord said—Sir, I
rise in pursuance of the notice which I have given to pro-
pose the appointment of a committee to consider whether any
change can be made in the forms and proceedings of the
house which will tend to accelerate the progress of public
business. It is well known that both in the house and out
of it there has prevailed for some considerable time past an
opinion that some of the forms which have hitherto been in
force might be dispensed with without injury to the public
interests, and at the same time provide for a considerable ac-
celeration of public business. It is also well known that seve.
ral improvements have already been made in this respect—
for instance, much time has been saved by the regulation
that no speeches shall be made upon the presentation of pe-
titions, as was formerly the practice ; much time has also
been saved, and no injury caused to the public service, by the
rul3 that a bill once in committee and progress made shall be
taken up at, the same point without any specific motion being
made for that purpose. Again, much time has been saved by
referring bills of the same kind to the same committee. Thus
various improvements have been made, all of which have
tended to accelerate the public business of the house, and I
am not aware that any complaint has been made against
those changes, or that they have in any degreeinterfered with
a full and free discussion by the house in dealing with the
matters brought before them. (Hear, hear.) Undoubtedly
the house ought to be very cautious in making changes of this
sort, because while on the one hand it is desirable that the
public business of the country should be expedited and no time
lost in transacting it, yet on the other hand expedition is not
the sole purpose for which the house meets. The house meets
for the purpose of amply discussing all matters which are
brought under their consideration, and they are not to
adopt short methods of disposing of the business, which by
their very shortness will prevent that full consideration and
discussion which are necessary to be given to the matters
brought under the notice of the house. We have felt that
it is not desirable that the executive government should
take upon themselves to propose any specific measures to
the house, as we think that these are matters which ought
to be considered by a committee, and not a small commit-
tee, but a committee composed of members from both sides
of the house whoare conversant with the proceedings and
forms of the house, and who, by their number and impar-
tiality, can suggest improvements for the acceleration of
the business of the house without, at the same time, per-
mitting any inter erence with the amplitude of the discus-
sions upon all measures proposed. (Hear, hear.) There are
several suggestions which have been made in various quar-
ters, and I w :11 mention some of them, simply as illustra-
tions, but without intending to propose them as matters for
the committee to consider. One of the suggestions which
have been made has not been noticed so much in this house
as in the Other house of parliament, and it is that bills
which, haNing gone through certain stages in one house of
Parliament, should not at the end of the session be dropped,
if they cannot be passed before the prorogation takes place,
but be taken up at the same stage in the next session of Par-
liament. (Hear.) That is one suggestion upon which I will
not give any opinion. (Hear.) Another suggestion which
has been made is that, in the early part of the session, say
until Easter or until progress has been made in the esti-
mates, an additional day in the week should be given to the
Government for their measures. At present the Govern-
ment have only two days in the week, This also is a matter
which the committee will probably think it right to consi-
der; and further, whether to give another day to the Go-
vernment will be encroaching too much on the days allotted
to private members. This is also a matter upon which I
will give no opinion, but leave it entirely in the hands of
the committee. It has been often discussed whether some
limit ought not to be put upon the practice of giving no-
tices of motions upon the question, of :the adjournment of
the house on Fridayto the succeeding Monday. (Hear.) This
has been a matter very frequently discussed in this house,
and many opinions are entertained upon it—some one way
and some the other, and I presume it_is not too much to say
that it will be a matter the committee will consider and
report their opinion upon. It is thought by many that a
great deal of public inconvenience arises from the extreme
latitude taken by hon. members on going into committee of
supply,
on the houseof frommo-
tions
foorththereresuabrjeeettismetesnwdhteon thepre v interposition
e n
going into a committee of supply. Hon. gentlemen come
down to the house prepared to discuss the estimates, and
when they arrive here they find that instead of going into
that committee the house is talking about the affairs of
Syria, Italy, or India, or some other matter. This is also
a matter which I think the committee will take into their
consideration. Ou the other hand, it is an old maxim that
" grievance and supply go together," and therefore it is
thought that when supply is to be proceeded with hon.
members may talk of everything else. (Hear, hear.) This
is a practice which has grown up very much of late years ;
so much, indeed, that you, sir, have not thought it right to
interfere, but there has been a great departure by the house
from the rules laid down, and particularly in this respect,
that when an hon. member gets up and is beginning to
make a speech without any specific motion—a speech wholly
Fear—he says he will move the adjournment of the
'mle- and then he goes on and makes a speech altogether
11112°Tmeeteal with the question whether the house ought to
adjourn or not. , (Hear, hear.) It is a question whether
the etriet
rule not to be enlaced which requires that every