The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-01 00:00:00

raster when taking his first step in that capacity. The right
hon. baronet has gone further than the noble lord the Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs. He is reported to have said :
" We have seen recent accounts that in a large portion of
Germany a strong spirit prevails by which they seem dis-
posed almost to engage in hostilities. I hope an, t trust their
own good sense, aided by our advice, which we have given
them since we came into power, willinduce them to abstain

front hostilities." _
Some of the members of the present Government have
taken two or three occasions to declare that they intended
to assume an attitude of rigid neutrality, and I understand
that such is the interpretation which is to be put upon the
statement which my noble friend opposite has made this
evening. I wish, therefore, without further remark to call
your lordships' attention to tip step which, if the right hon.
baronet the member for Halifax be correctly reported, has
been already taken by her Majesty's Ministers. It is a step,
my lords, which goes further than anything which the late
Government did, and seems to me to be the first move to-
wards leaving a position of absolute and complete neutrality.
(Cheers.) Her Majesty's late advisers most carefully ab-
stained from giving Germany any advice with respect to
her conduct in taking hostile measures or refraining from
them. We confined ourselves advisedly and purposely to
telling the Prussian Government and the Governments of
the other German States, that if they went to war at pre-

sent, before the Confederation assembled, they must not
expect the slightest assistance from her Majesty's Govern-
ment. We thought it right and fair to tell them so,
because there prevailed no doubt in Germany a hope and
delusion which went so far as make the people of that
country believe that her Majesty's Government would
lend their aid to Germany in case she entered upon
a war. The language which we used, however, is
quite a different thing from advising Germany not to judge
for herself, and not to make war, even though she may deem
it to be necessary to her safety. (Hear, hear.) The result
of such a course may be that you may find yourselves com-
mitted by a moral obligation hereafter to support her, inas-
much as the people of Germany may turti round upon you,
and say, "If you had left -us alone, we should not be in
this scrape." (Hear, hear.) It is upon these grounds that
I think the statement made by the right hon. baronet the
member for Halifav possesses a degree of importance which
at first blush it may not seem to wear. My object in allud -
ing to the statement was to show your lordships that it is
really of some consequence, and, if it be not indiscreet, I
should be very glad to know whether that statement is cor-
rect or not.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE—No one can feel surprised
that the noble lord should have taken advantage of the
forms of the house to defend himself from accusations
made against him in the performance of the duties which
lately devolved upon him at the Foreign-office. At the
same time I am sure your lordships, as well as my noble
friend, will agree with me that upon this occasion it is un-
advisable, not only for any member of the Government,
but, I think, for any member on either side of this house,
to enter at length into the questions in the blue-book, con
sidering that a notice has been given which will bring on
a full discussion of those questions so early as to-morrow
week. (Hear, hear.) Although Iby no means deprecate
such a discussion, I am certain your lordships will concur
with me in the opinion that these subjects can never be
debated without some risk to the public service—(hear, hear)
—can never be discussed, even in the temperate atmosphere
of this house, without giving rise to language which may,
and in all probability will, endanger the future attempts of
the Government to restore the peace that has been so
unhappily broken. (Hear, hear.) If, therefore, I do not
refer to what has fallen from my noble friend, he must not
think there is any disregard of his position by the present
Government, and I am certain when this discussion takes
place that he will find every member of thr Ministry
disposed to do him ample justice, and that no attempt
will be made to represent the house and the country any
ether than an anxious desire on the part of my noble friend
and his colleagues to preserve peace so far as it was pos-
sible to do so by any efforts of theirs. (Hear, hear.) My
noble friend has enjoyed within the last few days a privi-
lege which has been wanting to me—l mean leisure to read
election speeches. Until, therefore, he quoted just now the
speech of my right hon. friend (Sir C. Wood), I was not
aware of the words which are said to have fallen from him,
and I am not able to state whether they are accurately re-
ported. Probably the report is perfectly accurate. If so,
I can only say that the despatch which must have been
alluded to does not bear the construction which my noble
friend deprecates, and that whenever the papers are laid
before the house it will be found that we have not exposed
ourselves to the dangers which he has very rightly pointed
out. (Hear.) Allow me to say a word or two upon what
fell from the noble duke (Rutland). He seems to fear,
owing to what has fallen from the Foreign Secretary, that
there is a difference of opinion between my noble friend
(Lord J. Russell) and the President of the Council as re-
gards the maintenance of a fair, an honest, and entire neu-
trality. Now it may be perfectly true that my noble friend
considers that Austria is to blame for the commencement
of the war. Contrary opinions on this point have often been
expressed by members of both houses. I will not say
whether such opinions are prudent or otherwise ; perhaps
the more carefully they are avoided the better; but the
noble duke goes too far when he endeavours to deduce from
such opinions that the person who expresses them will take
a partisan view of events which are now transpiring.
(Hear.) I can assure your lordships that not only my noble
friends, but every member of the Government agree in their
determination to maintain a strict and entire neutrality.
`Without asking who began the war, our object will be to
hold the balance fairly between the belligerents, so that at
the earliest opportunity, consistently with that neutrality,
and with the objects which my noble friend has already
explained, we may be able to step forward as mediators in
this unhappy quarrel. (Hear, hear.) As to the noble
duke's anxiety lest two offices in the Ministry should not
be filled up, I may relieve that anxiety in one particular,
because there is every prospect that the gentleman to whom
he alludes will not only continue a member of the Govern-
ment, but will again become, within a few hours, a member
of the House of Commons. With regard to Mr. Cobden, I
cannot tell what answer, if any, has been sent by him to
Lord Palmerston; but if Mr. Cobden joins the present Go-
vernment—and I sincerely hope he will—l can assure the
noble duke he will join it with the full knowledge that
Ministers intend to maintain and strengthen the defences
of this country, and not to relax, but, if necessary, to in-
crease the efforts made by their predecessors with that end.
(Hear.) 'Whatever happens, your lordships may rest assured
that with a view to the important part which in all proba-
bility we shall be called upon to play, whether of a peace-
ful kind or otherwise, the defences of the country will not
be neglected.EMoreover, as regards the speech which has
been quoted, the noble duke, I think, will find that there is
nothing inconsistent in a gentleman, who believes there is
no fear of invasion, nevertheless taking every precaution to
prevent the possibility of invasion, and to repel it if at-
tempted. (Hear, hear.) Few men regard invasion as pro-
bable ; but there is not one of your lordships, and there are
very few in the country, who do not believe it is the para-
mount duty of England at this moment to strengthen her
defences, and to be prepared for every emergency. (Cheers.)
Lord HOWDEN thought that the opinion of Parliament
on the present state of affairs abroad could not be known
too soon either here or upon the continent. He trusted that
the observations which he was about to offer would not be
deemed unwise or very indiscreet. In the present conjunc-
ture it was the duty. of every one to speak plainly ; and if
England had done so in the beginning, might not this ini-
quitous war have been avoided ? On the first night of the
session he had called attention to a startling declaration
which had appeared in the manifesto of the Emperor of the
French. Possibly the phrase might have been inserted
because it looked well to the eye and sounded well
to the ear, which was a. very common reason for much that
was said, done, and written in a neighbouring country. He
had received from the then Government no explanation as
to that phrase, but he hoped the present Ministry would
try to discover whether that startling declaration meant
anything or not. Haying himself as much at heart as any
man living the independence of Italy—the real, practical
independence of the whole country, and not a phantasm a
goria evoked for the purpose of the hour—he was glad to be
able to raise his voice humbly but loudly against the very
unholy means taken to arrive at a very holy end. He did
not concur with those who maintained in this case that the
end justifiesl the means. Every Englishman was in favour
cf the Italian cause and wished it well, but he had not
heard a single person in this country approve the means by
which it was to be advanced. In his belief, that cause was
adopted with no more fixed and definite view than to give,
as circumstances might permit, additional prestige to the
arms of France. What would follow ? A proportionate de-
crease in that legitimate influence which England ought to
havn not only over the future destinies of Italy, but over
the progress of real liberalism in all parts of the world. It
appeared from the recently-published blue-book that so late
as the end of February Lord Cowley did not believe in war,
because, as he stated in his despatch, no preparations were
made in France for it. That France was not quite ready
when she marched into Italy; that the Emperor Napoleon,
like a lady in an interesting situation, was somewhat out
in his reckoning, might be true enough; but he who lived in
Paris was at a loss to understand how any man, however
amiable and disposed to believe everything he was told,
could bring his mind to the conviction that France had not
resolved upon war. He believed that the determination of
France was taken long before the month of February, but
still, when he heard Italy claiming the Emperor Napo-
leon as its liberator and regenerator, he could not help
saying that he had great doubts whether, at the bottom of
his very capricious mind, his Majesty ever intended or ex-
pected the real liberation of Italy, however large or magni-
ficent might be the device which lee had inscribed upon his
banner. Lord Cowley stated in one of his despatches that
when, in 1857, certain reforms expected to be efficacious
were proposed to be introduced into Italy through the joint
influence of France and Austria, they were allowed to fall
to the ground by France ; and he observed from the blue-
book that the representations which were subsequently
made to the Cabinet of the Tuileries upon that point met
with a very discouraging and lukewarm reception. (Hear.)
That the Emperor Napoleon intended to do something with
the Austrian States he had not the least doubt ; but what
or of the kingdom of
Nl;as to become of Imperial Rome,
Na l:Iles? Re believed that in the latter country great pains
were taken to ascertain whether any feeling existed in fa-
vour of the Murata ; but it was found that, according to
the French proverb, le jeu ne vaut pas la chandelle, and tqe
attempt to o
efficacious reform inY
as the north of Ital.
pen Naples to French influence in the same way
by a body in France as abandoned. Anything like an
under the greatest whom the Emperor tthe Papal States would be prevented
siderable part of the six Napoleon was
obligations, to whom he owed a con-
out of the electoral ill; seven millions of votes that came
there were not underhand intrigues fluence he was by no means his favour, and from whose in--
free. He did not say that
and anonymOus incitements tnotrigues'
sub-
jects of the Pope; on the contrary,revolt
things were going on at the present dark machinations.
addressed to the
assured that little or no change would ltie was sure that such
ouimoment, but he felt
anddbe allowed to take
place in Rome and the Papal States,
liberation of a part of Northern Italy would only
deeper the so-called
plunge those magnificent regions, if not intoooy
dark-
ness, at least into deeper disappointment serve to
was s
whatto
(Hear, hear.) Dangerous, and even ridiculous,'' as 'rspair.
prophecy in times like the present, ho knew welll
would happen to England as the result of the ini eft
war now raging in Italy. At some period—probably
an
early one—England would interfere with a view to stob
hostilities and to prevent a further effusion of blood. Shes
would honestly and frankly offer her good offices, and then,
by that unfortunate fiat of fate which seemed to attend her,
by that curiosa in felkitas which had always been hers, she
would make herself even more odious than she now was to
(A laugh.) If she failed she would compromise
position as a great power; if she succeeded it would
herall pa r t es.
be said from one end of the Peninsula to the other that had
it not been for selfish and perfidious Albion, only alive to
her own grovelling interests and the dispersion of cotton,
i all Italy would have been free, and she would be accused of

having ruined all those magnificent schemes for the deve-
lopement and protection of nationalities which were orga-
nised and elaborated in that region so propitious to human
liberty—the Tuileries -t Paris. (A laugh.) All the vitu-.
peration of the Liberals in Italy, of the Reds in France,
and of our own Radicals would fall upon England, while
all the honour attaching to projects which were never in-
tended to be executed would be given to France. (Hear.)
In the name of God, however, let us have peace, no matter
how obtained, but at the same time he hoped that no en-
couragement would be given to what, he feared, was on the
cards—a prolonged occupation of Italy by France under the
pretence of negotiation. He believed that when Napoleon
marched his army into Italy nothing was wanting for
the liberation of that country but the retirement of
the French and Austrian troops from places which they
never ought to have entered, and the removal of the injuri-
ous influence which Austria had so long exercised in Tus-
cany and other States. It was very remarkable that we did
not know why so good a proposal—a proposal which would
have liberated the whole, and not a part of Italy, and libe-
rated it, moreover, without the smallest risk of retrocession
—was not carried out. An honest, conscientious Govern-
ment in Sardinia, mindful of its own affairs and of God's
commandment not to covet what did not belong to it—(a
laugh)—would have quietly but impressively held out its
system as a model for present Italy to contemplate and for
future Italy to attain. An honest and constitutional regime
in France—that country which, from its rare position, and
according to its government, must always be either the curse
or the regenerator of Europe—a constitutional government
in France, protecting, but not exciting Sardinia, would have
allowed the wise example of a constitutional system to win
its way to the hearts of kings and of subjects, and would
have attached itself to the institutions of this free country
by a natural and durable alliance, for, thank God, from the
force of things, and by a law superior to the temporary con-
venience of one man, no alliance of a really permanent cha-
racter could subsist between liberty and despotism. Thus
England and France might have given freedom to the
world. It was this quiet but infallible action that would
have encouraged struggling races and raised drooping na-
tionalities. It would have done so righteously as well as
peacefully. Such a process would have pleased all the wise
reformers of all abuses of power in all parts of the earth,
although it might not and could not please the wild ambi-
tion and rash desires of those who were equally above the
real interests and the wholesome opinions of mankind.
(Hear, hear.)
The subject then dropped.
Their lordships adjourned shortly after half-past 6 o'clock.