The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-15 00:00:00

THE SAVINGS BANKS BILL.

DEPUTATION TO THE CHANCELLOR OF THE
EXCHEQUER.

Yesterday afternoon, a deputation, consisting of Mr.
Collins, M.P. ; Mr. Whateley, Q C. ; Mr. C. E. Lewis,
Mr. Isaacson, the Rev. Mr. Owen (of St. Asapb), and
other gentlemen, waited upon the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, at his official residence, for the purpose of
stating certain objections to the bill recently introduced
into the House of Commons by the right hon. gentle,'
man. The deputation was introduced by Mr. Paget,
M.P., and Mr. Pritchard, M P. ; the Chancellor of the
Exchequer being attended by ,•ir A. Spearman, Comp-
troller of the National Debt-office.

The Rev. Mr. Owxs, in opening the subject, referred
to some resolutions in condemnation of the i,i 1, adopted
at a meeting recently held in the parish of St. Clement
Dane; over which he had himself presided, and copies
of which had been forwarded to the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, and stated that the objections generally
entertained by managers and trustees against the bill
were directed principally to the provisions contained in
its 2nd, 3d, and 12th clauses. He also referred to the
resolutions of a kindred c6aracter adopted by the
managers and trustees of the St. .41,-aph's Savings
Bank, of which be was treasurer and trustee.
'Pho bill as ;t stood, he maintained, vested in the
hands of the Government powers of an extensive, and
at the same time undefined nature, which would,
without doubt, deprive trustees and managers of all
control, and place all real authority in the hands of the
National Debtoffice. It was, he admitted, desirable
that there should be a government guarantee to deposi-
tors ; and the result, if the bill as it stood were to pass,
would be to drive all managers and trustees into resigna-
tion.

Mr. LEWIS (as a ma❑ager and trustee of St. Clement
Danes Savings Bank) spoke at considerable length to
the same effect, repudiating in his opposition to the bill
anything like a feeling of personal jealousy. At the
same time, be objected that there was no precedent for
the government taking to itself powers so extensive and
so undefined—powers which would in reality deprive
trustees and managers of all power whatever in the
management of the affairs of savings banks ; and if, in
order to give a government guarantee to depositors, it
was necessary to do away with trustees and managers,
he should prefer to see that mode of action openly
adopted. It was not, however, necessary that the pow-
ers to be taken by the government should be undefined,
and as it was only fair that there should be a series of
regulations in return for the government guarantee,
those rules and regulations ought to be expressed in the
bill, The effect of the bill would be that certain banks,
being unable to comply with the government provisions,
would become marked banks with the public, there
would be a run upon them, and so they would be de-
troyed. Nothing would be easier than to insert in the
bill the restrictions to be introduced, with a discretionary
power to the National Debt•office to modify them if
found impracticable, or inconvenient to work. In Mr.
Gladstone 's bill of 1853 there was a most obnoxious pro-
vision to take away the surplus fund, and such a power
might be taken by government under the present bill.
Sir A. SPEARMAN said there was never any intention
to do anything of the kind under that bill.

Mr. LlWlS—then had been misled, and was sure the
country would be glad to know that it was so. All that
the deputation aad the banks asked was, that they should
have the privilege of going before a select committee of
the House of Commons ; and that the restrictions intended
by clauses 2,3, and 12, should be expressed in the bill,
Theee were the two 'objects sought by the deputation,
which represented most of the savings banks of the
country.
Sir A. SPEARMAN inquired if the Bloomsbury Bank
had joined in the movement
Mr. LEWIS—No.
Sir A. SPEARMAN—Has the London Provident
Mr. LEWIS—I am not aware.
Sir A. SPEARMAN—I am aware that they have not,
and they are two of the largest banks in the country.
Mr. LEWIS said the deputation represented banks
which held the greater portion of the deposits of the
country.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the 'Views of
the Government in bringing forward the bill appeared
to be entirely misunderstood. The deputation seemed to
be under an impression that the Government were seek-
ing powers by the measure, and there was some jealousy,
he thought, as to the future position of managers end
trustcee. But nothing could be further from the fact
than that the Government were desirous of increasing
their powers, and they would much rather leave the
matter as it was ; but the present Ltate of things was
bad both for the Government and the people, since there
was a belief on the part of the latter in the moral obli-
gation of the former to make good any loss which might
arise from the defalcations of officers of savings banks,
while the Government did not think themselves justified
in applying the public money to snail a purpose. Thus
a the eases of the Cuffe-street Bank, Dublin, and the

Kirasney Bant, the Government bad been asked for
grants of money to make good such defalcationii; and
during the present session he had himself been asked if
he would grant assistance to individuals. "Under such
circumstances, he had thought it his duty to propose
a measure for giving a guarantee to depositors ; but
this could not be done without a guarantee that the
trust should not be abused, and that there should be
such reasonable restrictions and precautions as could be
taken to secure the safety of the deposits. That was his
view ; but there was no wish on the part of the Govern-
ment to interfere with trustees and managers in the
ordinary course of their business transactions, and to
say, as had been said, that it was the intention
of Government to elbow them out, and place them in a
discreditable position, was a complete perversion of the
intentions which G ivernmenf entertained. in under-
taking the responsibility for so many millions of money,
it was absolutely necessary to introduce restrictions and
regulations, but they would be more in the nature of
statutory provisions than of any interference with de-
tails. With regard to the power given by the bill to the
Government to remove or suspend paid officers,' the
same power bad been given in the New Poor Law, and
bad not, he thought, been found to interfere with the in-
dependence of the Boards of Guardians. With regard
to the power taken by the Government to fix salaries, it
was open to consideration, and be did not know that it
was necessary to be retained.
Mr. LEWIS said that that power, together with the
further power proposed to be taken of fixing the amount
of expenses, would really leave the managers and trus-
tees nothing to do.
Mr. OWEN—Who will appoint the paid officers ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The trustees
and managers, of course.

Mr. OwEN—But if the Government object to the
appointment
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—Then the true-
teeswill appoint another.

Mr. OWEN—And if they ohj"c'ed again I
The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER—Oh you ought
not to suppose anything so unreasonab e. In &country
like this, where all public men are so much under the
public eye, anything like systematic abuse of power is
altogether unlikely.
After some further conversation, in the course of
which the Chancellor of the Exchequer repeated his
disavowal of all intention of interfering with the indepen-
dence of trustees and managers, and intimated his
opinion that it would be impossible to embody the neces-
sary rules and regulations in the bill, the deputation
retired.

Sporting Intelligence.

TATTERSILL'S-TEURSDAY.

The meagre attendance in the room and the little
disposition which was evinced to pursue speculation
were scarcely indicative of the near approach of the
great Epsom event. Still a strong under-current was
evidently at work, forcing. horses up point by point in
the betting, and rendering them at least temporarily
buoyant. The powerful demonstration which was made
in favour of Saunterer on Monday last has been sustained
with good effect. In the Cityduring the morning he bad
the call of Skirmisher' but at the Corner in the afternoon
he was again passed by Lord Zetland's horse ; 7 to 1 to
1001., and the same rate of odds to several smaller sums
were taken about Skirmisher, while 8 to 1 to 1501., and
9 to 1 to 501., were laid against Saunterer ;• 1,0001.
even was offered on. Skirmisher against Saunterer ; 3 to
1 against any two, and 40 to 1 against naming the win-
ners of both the Derby and the Oaks. Just at the close
M.D. was backed for nearly 600/., at 12 to 1. The
most important movements were those which caused
the advance of Sprig of Shillelagh and Bird-in
the-Hand-1,000 to 60, 15 to 1, and finally 13 to 1
were booked about the " Stifle and 16 to 1, 15 to 1,
100 to 7, 1,000 to 75, and 12 to 1, were taken about
Bird-in-the-Hand, who is the only remaining representa-
tive of Scott's lot, and who patsed through London yes-
terday afternoon, en route to Leatherheart. 16 to 1 was
wanted about Stratboaver and Blink Bonny coupled,
and 40 to 1 outright was taken to 501. about the mare.
In the City, during the morning, Blink Bonny had been
backed at 1,000 to 15.
The odds quoted against lleeltissima for the Oaks
were booked to about 1001.
Closing prices :

DEBBY.
7to 1 agst Lord Z-tlandys Skirmisher (taken)
Bto 1 aget Mr. Jackson's Saunterer (t and off.)
10 to 1 agst Mr. F. Robinson's Anton (offered)
12 to 1 agst Mr, Bowes's Bird-in-the-Rand (t)
12 to 1 agst Mr. T. Parr's M.D. (taken)
12 to 1 aget Mr. Howard's Ar-eoal (offered)
13 to 1 apt Mr. Copperthwaite's Sprig of Shil-
lelagh (taken)
100 to 7 agst Baron Rothschild's Sydney (taken)
16 to 1 BO Mr. Mellish'. Adamas (taken)
20 to 1 aget Mr. W. S. S. Crawfurd's Zuyder
Zee (taken and off red)

20 to 1 agst Lord John Scott's Lady Hawthorn
(taken and offered)
40 to 1 agat Admiral Harcourt's Warders
marske (taken)
40 to 1 agst Mr. W. I'Anson's Blink Bonny (t)
THE OAKS.
Bto 1 agst Lord John Scott's Mcestissima (t)
ASCOT GOLD CUP.
5 to 1 agat Lord Zaland's Skirmisher (taken to
1001)
6to 1 apt Mr. T. Walker's Gamma di Vergy
(,)fft-red)
Bto 1 agst Captain Verner's Lance (offered)
12 to 1 agst Mr. Snewing's Polestar (taken)
16 to 1 agst Mr. Dennett's ZAidee (taken)

LUDLOW RACES—YESTERDAY.
Steward's Cup.

Ephorug
Early Bird .....

Dead Heat. Eight ran.
Ephorus afterwards walked over, and divided the stakes.

Biennial Stakes.

Happy Prince
Ludlow Handicap.

..walked over.

Mysterious Jack
t. Clair
Whalebone

Five ran.

Thefollowing horses have h-ft Mahon for Leatherbead
—Bird in the Hand, Vanity, Imperiense, Warlock,
Gr zecuius Esuriens, Fa.zzaletto, Comedian, Cock-a
doodle-doo, Victoria, St,r of the East, Wood Nymph,
Diggers, Dr. Punster, and Laertes.

HORSES STRUCK OUT OF THEIR ENGAGE-
MENTS.
May 7—Delos out of all his engagements.
May 7, at 1.45 p.m.—Merlin out of all his engage-
ments at Shrewsbury and Ludlow.

Miey 8, at 9 a.m.—Fandango out of the Ascot Cup.
May 8, at 3 30 p.m.—Nathan, Jesuit, and Briglia-
doro, out of the Free Handicap at Bath.
May 2, at 10.35 a.in.—Leamington out of the Bath
Handicap.

May 11, at 9 a.m.—Coup de Main out of all his en-
gagements.

May 11, at 4.15 p.m.—Fandango out of the Epsom
Cap.

May 13, at 9 aan.—Typee out of all her engagements.
May 12, at 9 a.m.--Capuchin out of the Epsom
Derby, th Great Yorkshire, the Doncaster St. Leger,
and the Doncaster Stakes.

May 12, at 9a.1212-165,, by Gameboy, out of Maria,
by Sir Hercules (three-yrs old), out of the Epsom Derby
and the DoncaPter St. Leger.
May 12, at 12.30 p.m.—Absolution out of the Somer-
setsh ire stakes

May 13.—Maid of Derwent out of all her engage-
ments at Manchester.

May 14.--Mr. homes, Huntington, Tame
Deer, and Minos, out of the handicaps at Bath.

The London Racing Indicator, private circular, on
Saturday next, price thirteen pence, will conta'n Notes
and probable Winners of the Somerset,hire Stakes ; nlio
at Bath Meeting, the Oaks, and some important infor-
mation on the Derby. Sent eight winners at Chester.
1, Savoy-hill, Strand, London.