The Sun.
London, England, 1861-04-03 00:00:00

you so. Nothing. has guided me through my whole
political career but the view I have taken of Eng-
lish interests. I may have been wrong. Where is
the man who has not been wrong ? (Hear, hear.) I
have learnt to bear and forbear. I would tell all
those who judge of me by themselves, I suppose, I
would tell them that time out of mind I might have
been sold; I might now, instead of being as I am,
put upon my trial, have been so well off that not
one of those parties would have raised his voice
against me. (Cheers.) Sir, I really am proud—l
acknowledge it. I began life as the servant of
my country. I am talking of my political life.
From that time to this I have fought the cause
of freedom. No man dared to come to me
and ask me to vote this way or that.
lam never told in the House of Commons what I
am to do.
,No whipper-in ever comes to me.
(Laughter.) Oh, they say, he will do exactly as
he likes. (Laughter.) I ha.;a3 from the commence-
ment of my career done exactly as I liked, and let
it be told to you now, not for the first time, that I
shall do as I like. (Cheers.) lam sent to Parlia-
ment as your representative; at the end of that
term I come to answer for the deeds 1 have done
in your name, and you know what to do. If you
don't like me, send me adrift. (Cheers and laughter.)
If you think I have acted honestly and to the best
of my ability, and that I have been devoted to your
service, you then know what to do. (Cheers.) Now,
let me tell my detractors that I am afraid of no
imputation. Truth is great and will prevail ;
(" Well done !") and, God willing, so long as I have
health and strength to fight the battle of the good
people of England, I have that confidence in my
countrymen that, eventually I am sure they will
say I have been a good and faithful servant, and
as such honour my name. (Loud and protracted
cheers, during which Mr. Roebuck resumed his

seat.)
Mr. W. M. WooD said he wished to ask Mr.
Roebuck what would be the cost of the fortifica-
tion scheme of Lord Palmerston for which he voted,
and against which Mr. Hadfield voted, and what
would be the annual cost of keeping up those for-
tifications ? (Cries of " No !" " Question !" " We've
nought to do with it," &c.)
Mr. ROEBUCK—WiII you bear with me for a
moment ? Our friend here, I have no doubt,fancies
(interruption) he has a right to ask this question,
and I hope I have a right to answer it. I believe
from one end of Great Britain to another there is a
feeling of suspicion growing up—or did some time
ago grow up—that we, as a great nation, were not
in the position we ought to be in ; that there was
by our side a man who wielded an army of 600,000
men, in whom the people of England had no confi•
donee. They thought the Volunteer movement
ought to be got up, and it sprang from the earth,
as it were, armed, and frightened the despot.
(Hear.) I believe—and though I have differed in
that from my hon. colleague, we very seldom do
differ—l believe it was wise in England to have:her
arsenals defended, for in these days of steam a fleet
can be got together to meet at Portsmouth at a cer-
tain given day, and if there was nothing to resist,
then our arsenals and our power of resistance would
be taken away. (Cheers.) In order that England
might have her duo weight among the nations I
voted for Lord Palmerston's proposal. Ido not be-
lieve my countrymen thought I was doing wrong.
(Hear.) I believe my colleague was mistaken. (No,
no !) Do you suppose that therefore I thought him
unworthy of your confidence ? No, my regard and
respect for him remain the same, and I ask you to
treat me as I treat him. I may be wrong, but lam
sure in this matter I had the largest portion of my
countrymen with me, and none more so than the
men of Sheffield. (Cheers.)
Mr. DoDwonni said he had long supported Mr.
Roebuck, and was glad to hear him answer for him-
self in the manner he had done. Nevertheless, he
had something against him from the speech he had
made. (Cries of " Question," and interruption.)
Mr.:Roebuck said, depend upon it we shall never
get reform till the people themselves are deter-
mined to have it. (True !) He also said that what-
ever was for the interest and good of England was
for the interest and good of the world. That was
his opinion. He (Mr. Dod worth) wished to ask him
this question. If any nation or people determined
to rise against their rulers, would Mr. Roebuck take
sides against such people in favour of such rulers,
because it was for the interest or good of England P
(Hear, hear.) Or would he leave the people or
nation to do the best for themselves, and be strictly
neutral both with regard to moral and physical aid ?
Mr. ROEBUCK—In answer to that question I would
say I should first inquire what the interests of Eng-
land require. I will suppose that nation to be Ire-
land. (Hear.) In 1828, if you had polled Ireland
you would have got a majority against England.
But I should have kept up and maintained the union
between England and Ireland. (No, no.) I have
always been for the union. I may be wrong, and
I daresay certain ardent Irish gentlemen will think
that I am, but I was unfavourable to the movement
for a dissolution, and stood up for the union between
England and Ireland; and I believe I did wisely at
that time in not joining a large portion of the
people of Ireland who were for disunion. There is
another nation under our rule that has a Parlia-
ment who are determined to poll the:people whether
they will remain under the dominion of England or
not. That is the people of the lonian Islands,
known as the Septinsutar Republic. They have a
Parliament, and it met about two months ago, and
passed a resolution that they should poll the people
of the islands whether England should retain
Corfu. The Governor, an Englishman, prorogued
that Parliament. Should I join the people of the
lonian Islands against England ? I say, No. I say it
is for the interest of mankind that England should
have interests in the Mediterranean, and that it
should not become a French lake as the great
Napoleon wished to make it. England governs
Corfu as she governs her own country. The people
are contented and happy, and I would maintain
the power of England. I would join England
against anybody. (Cheers.)
Mr. W. SHARMAN wished to ask Mr. Roebuck
how it was that he justified Austria in retaining
Venice, and advised the British Government not to
recommend Austria to withdraw from Venice, while
he condemned France for keeping Rome in bondage
in like manner ? (Cheers.)
Mr, ROEBUCK—The position of Austria and of
France is entirely different. (Hear, hear, and disap-
probation.) Austria was put into possession of
Venetia by treaties to which England was a party, at
what was called the pacification of Europe in 1815.
The then Republic of France sent troops and took
possession—violent possession—of Rome. Now, if
Venice were situated down where Rome is, I
should say the sooner Austria was out of Venice the
better. The position of Rome is a very different
one, and the possession of Rome by France is a
very different one from that of Venice by Austria.
One is the result of treaties to which the whole
European world was a party, to which we are
bound in faith and honour now. 1 say to England,
" Hold your hand. Have nothing to do with any
foreign intervention ; let them settle their affairs as
they will." I tell you that my opinion is that by
the balance of power Austria is required. She is
what I call your natural ally on the Continent.
The sooner France is out of Rome the better. You
will then have a united Italy, and with the aid of
Austria and England you will have an independent
Italy. But you will not have an independent
Italy if you have the dominion of France. If you
drive out Austria you will make France stronger
than she now is. You will make the Mediterranean
what the First Napoleon wished it to be—a French
lake. And there again comes in my rule—Eng-
land's interest requires it to be a free sea, and I am
in that case, as in all others, the friend, the honest
and ardent friend, of my country. (Cheers.)
Mr. DODWORTH said that Mr. Roebuck had not
answered his question in the way that he had put
it. He answered it politically, and by his speech
he (Mr. Dodworth) gathered that Mr. Roebuck
meant that because he believed the English people
had more liberty and more stability about them
than any other people he thought what was for
their interest was for the good of the world.
Therefore, for the good of the world, and the
good of England, he understood Mr. Roebuck
would interfere with the rising of any other
people. (Mr. Roebuck dissented.) Mrs Roebuck
said that the English had done the same thing
to Ireland that Austria was doing to Venice, with
the difference that Venice was given to Austria.
(Disapprobation and counter cheers.) Now, he
wanted Mr. Roebuck to answer his previous ques-
tion on this point, and also to say whether, because
Venice was given to Austria in 1815, he considered
that binding on people living in 1861. (Cheers.)
Mr. ROEBUCK—(Cheers)—I will first answer the
last question, "Are the
people of England bound
by what was done in 1815 ?"
I say they are.
(Cries of "No.") Now, I ask you, is not every
nation governed by law ? (Yes.) And do you say
I am not to ba obedient to an Act of Parliament
passed in 1815 ? [Mr. Sharman—" Not when it's
a bad one."] I want to know if lamto be a judge
of that. An Ito say to my neighbour, " You have
an estate; now, in my opinion, I ought to have it ?"
Can I here stand up and say, "It is all very true
you passed that law in 1815. lam living in 1861;
I don't think that law a good one, and I won't obey
it." What would' be the consequence ? I should
be shut up in your town gaol directly. Then 1 doo