The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-28 00:00:00

siou to kingdoms in India; but all that the Government bad
done was to prevent the invariable succession from one per-
son to auo'her. No interference had been attempted with
regard to the succession to property. Much had been said
with regard to the Rajah of Sattara, into whose claims,
which he denied, the hon, gentleman entered. The rajah was
a more puppet set up by the British Government—(hear,
hear)—but it was much better that the rajah should appear
in the capacity he had held than end his days in a dung in
(Hear, and a laugh.) The right hon. gentle nun bal referred
to the opinions of Sir Charles Napier and Sir Thomas Munro
on the subject of tenure ; but he (Mr. Mangles) was prepared
with ample evidence from the former authority to show that
the East India Company were not open to the censure which
had been cast on them in this respect. It had been charged
upon the East India C.)mpauy that they ought to have been
aware of the state of the sepoy army ; but Sir Charles
Napier himself ha I pu: on record seine very emphatic
opinions in favour of the native troops. Sir Charles Napier,
therefore, could not be said to have " warned" the Govern-
ment with respect to the state of the, Indian army, in the
sense contended for by the right honourable gentleman the
member for Buckinghamshire. The "grievances" of the
s .poy army had beeu also alluded to. He (Mr. Mangles)
believed that the sepoys had been much indulged; but
he did not think the mutiny had anything to do with
"grievances." He traced it to a frantic fanaticism found3d
on a supposed intention to deprive the natives of caste.
The mutineers were mad, under the impression that their
c iste had been interfered with, aid wer s not in possesion of
th err proper souses at the time of these o:tcurrov3.es. No •se
could yet tell whether they had not bcea acted oe by foreign
influences. (Hear.) He entirely agreed with whit the right
hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) had said as to the missionaries.
As mere missionaries he believed t -rat these gentlemen would
be rec3ived with respect and without susp:cion, but he agreed
with tie right honour :ble gentleman that it, was of the last
importance that Government should not be connected with
the missionaries, further than seeing to their personal safety.
At the same time he thought the Government ought to do all
they could to reform the social manners of India, It was
right that they should promote female education, and the
society having this object in view, bad been labouring amongst
the Hindoos for the last 30 years. He did not wish to tres-
pass longer on the attention of the house, though there were
many other matters to which he would wish to allude. (Hear.)
Mr. AYRTON moved the adjournment of the debate.
The house then divided on the question of adjournment—
' Ayes
Noes
Majority against the adjournment -124
Mr. HADFIELD declared his deep regret that a debate
upon so important a subject had been cut so short.

Mr. DISRAELI—I bad no personal interest in the divi•
sion which has just taken place. Having had an oppor•

tunity of expressing my 'views at some length on the condi-
tion of that country, which ;must now for some time occupy
the attention of Eng'and, and considering that the motion
for the adjournment came from tho other side of the house, I
think I should have acte t not only with discourtesy, but also
with a want of fairness, if I has not voted for it. lam con-
tented to have had an opportunity of expressing in my place in
Parliament my general views on the condition of our Indian
empire, and I do not lookupon the decision of the house,which-
e .-er way it might go, or in whatever form it might be demand-
ed, as being really anincident of any importance in the matter.
The future is hid from us, and until the future is revealed to us
it is quite impossible to arrive at any satisfacto y decision on
these great events. Ido not therefore, solicit from the house
any definite judgment, but I do think it of the last importance
that the House of Commons, under such circumstances, should
show to the country that it has given its attention and conside-
ration to events of such startling importance and interest as
those which have occurred in India. I must avail Myself, under
these circumstances, of my privilege for a few minutes to make
some remarks upon the observations which have fallen from
different hon. me-übers in the course of this debate, and as
they shall be very few, I will at once refer to those which are
of a personal nature. I can assure the President of the Board
of Control that he labours under a great misapprehension
if ho supposes that I accused him of displaying levity in
the answers which he made to me on a former occasion
in reference to this subject. As I am not in the habit of
preparing any expressions whit h I use in this house, I would
not myself venture to say that I had not made use. of par-
ticular words, but I can assure the right hon. gentleman
that nothing was more foreign to my feelings than to attribute
anything of the kind to him, and my friends around me tell
me that they were perfectly unaware that any such expression
had fallen from me. (Hear, hear.) I certainly did think,
and I retain my opinion, that the manner in which the in-
formation from India was first received by the right hon.
gentleman, and on a subsequent occasion noticed by one of
his colleagues did convey to me the idea, which is shared, I
believe very generally by the House and by the country, that
the Government did not attribute that importance to these
events which I think they deserved. (hear.) That is a
point which, after all, time must decide, and I am not pre-
p ,red, and I never wished, to force the House to give an
opinion on it. It has been said of me --and I hope the House
will absolve me from egotism i❑ referring to it—that this is a
new-born zeal of mine in the affairs of India, and the hon.
Chairman of the East India Company said of me that I was
the stormy petrel of Indian affairs, inasmuch as I never made
a speech o❑ them except when they were in a disastrous con•
claim These are observations easily made and easily
believed by a majority probably of the House. I cannot
suppose that there are many gentlemen who have watched
my career with such cetical minuteness as to be able to say
whether the allegation is a true ono or not; but, as it has
been made, I may be permitted to say that it has not the
slightest foundation, Certainly I can say with respect to

Indian aff ars what I suppose every gentleman who has had
a seat for some time iu this House can—that it is not a sub-
ject which one gets much encouragement to medcte with
in this h fuse. The observations of the hon. chairman were a
little inconsistent, because he owned himself, in the course
of his speech, that on the occasion of the disasters in k ffghan-
istan I, occupying a very insignificant position in this house,
did endeavour to attract its attention to the policy and to
the causes which had produced them. But the hon. chairman
says that circumstances or chance having placed me in a more
influential position I did not exhibit tha' zeal for which I am
now desirous of gaining credit in Indian matters. In 1853,
'the hon. gentleman says, I never favoured the house with any
opinion upon India. But what is the fact? In 1853 not only
did I trespass upou the house at almost greater length than
I have done to-night, but I did all that I could to prevent
the renewal of that charter to which the hon. gentleman owes
the position which he at present occupies. It was at my in-
stance that my noble friend the member for King's Lynn
brought forward the amendment which, if it had been carried,
would have prevented the renewal of that charter, and I sup-
ported him to the best of my power. The hon. gentleman
says that I was not a very frequent attendant on the Indian
Committee of 1853. That sounds very well in debate, but
when yon come to analyse the facts—and I feel that I really
must ask the house to excuse me for entering into these
details—you will find that the result, so far as the interest
which I took iu India is concerned, is exactly the reverse
of that which the hon. gentleman wishes the house to
infer. It so happened that the inquiry into the expedi-
ency of renewing the charter of the East India Company
took place when I was in office. The right hon. 'gentleman
then at the bead of the Board of Control did me the honour
to consult me—as I had then the direction of the business of
this la-use—upon the form and mode in which that inquiry
should be made. We finally resolved that there were seven
heads of inquiry it was important should be entered into by
the committee befero its decision was arrived at. The first
head was as to the form of government ; the next referred to
those great questions upon which I have touched to-night
—the revenue, the tenure of laud, the interference of the Go.
vernment with the religion of the natives, and other matters
of that kind. The first head of inquiry was entered into
during the year that I was in office. I sometimes attended,
and though the pre sure of business was heavy upon me, I
kept my attention fixed on all that took place before the
committee. Next year, when wo were out office, the Go-
vernment which succeeded us came to the conclusion that,
although the committee of the House of Commons charg.al
with an inquiry as to what should be the future government
of India for a long series of years had only investigated one
of the seven branches which we had fixed upon— namely,
that referring to the mere form of government—to the
question of the double government, on which the country
took so much interest—yet it was absolutely necessary, for
the security of our Indian empire, that we should without
loss of time legislate upon the form of Government, and enter
upon an investigation of the other branches of inquiry
after the act had passed. My noble friend the member for
King's Lynn then brought forward his amendment—the
mildest and most moderate which could have been proposed.
All my noble friend asked was that the house should not
legislate until all the heads of inquiry had been entered into.
I supported him in that motion, but we were defeated, as we
always were when we took a view of Indian affairs opposed
to that which continues to exercise so fatal an influence. The
hon. gentleman now says that I did not attend the committee.
But can a man occupy a more contemptible position than to
be a member of a committee of the House of Commens to in-
quire what shall be the new government of India when the
House of Commons before that committee have half concluded
their inquiry decide the very form of government that shall
be adopted V (Hear, hear.) Why, it was a perfect meckery.
I admit that from the moment the House of Commons passed
that Act I no longer attended the Indian Committee. The
bon. member did attend it, and if there is the slightest doubt
on the subject I answer for the worthy chairman that he was
sedulous in his attendance upon that defunct and obsolete
society for inquiry into the condition of the country. I have
been obliged to refer to evidence upon such subjects as the
levying of revenue and the tenure of land, and if the house
want to see an apology for unalloyed and unmitigated :con-
fiscation they have only to turn to the evidence of the worthy
chairman. '(A. laugh.) He has now explained everything by
what he terms the " frantic fanaticism" of the Sepoy. Ido
not know what frantic fanaticism is, but when I listened to
the chairman the other night I remember the hon. member
who fills that mysterious and responsible office rising and
telling us that his mission was to convert the whole of India
to Christianity. (A laugh, and " Hear, hear.")
I say that was
frantic fanaticism. (Cheers.) Recommend me to this candid
avowal of the Chairman of the East India Company, then,
when our East Indian empire is in a state of emergency.
(Cheers.) I now come to the answer of the right hon, gen-
tleman the President of the Board of Control, which amounts
to this—" You say we have had warnings of tbe s Ihtte of the
native army." I therefore expected that the right on. g
tleman would have adverted to those features of Indian so-
ciety, history, and life, which I placed
beforet the house, and
o trace. But the
the importance of which I endeavoured
right hon. gentlemen almost passed these circumstances with-
out notice. He treated them as old stories. But it is be-
cause they have been heard before —because they are old
stories—because they_ are permanent and enduring causes of
misrule—that I brought them before the house. If they had
been the accidents of yesterday they would not have pro-
duced the events that have startled the most powerful coun-
try of the world. tut the great defence of the right hon.
gentleman to the comprehensive view which I endeavoured
to take was a technical, red-tape, Treasury, worn-out, and
old-used argument. The right hon. gentleman says--" I will
prove that we had no warnings. I will prove that we, Vie
Government of Great Britain, that I, the Minister of India,
was more completely ignorant of the state of India than y
imagine." The right hon. gentleman spoke with all the sim-
plicity that Mr. Hastings said was peculiar to Indian
poten-
tates. I thought it quite possible that the right hon.gen-
tleman had no information on the subject, but with good-
natured irony I gave him credit for some. (A laugh.) Atone
time, indeed, I thought it possible that with this double Go-
vernment—with this Cerberus to watch over the affairs
of India, with the Government at Calcutta, the Government
at Leadenhall-street, the Goverment in Cannon-row, and
all the complicated contrivances of this vast machine--I
thought it possible that the right hon. gentleman might suc-
ceed in obtaining a glimpse of light and some slight fragment
of Information. But I did not think it right to assume that
iu these events which have alarmed a country and endangered
an empire there had been in official quarters the gross igno-
rance which appears to have prevailed upon these subjects.
(Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman denies that he knew
anything, and protested his ignorance with a Plaintiveness
that is irresistible and a pathos that I field to without further