The Sun.
London, England, 1861-02-12 00:00:00

nor the equally if not more important question of the assi- bill. But in the present state of the house he would not
milation of bankruptcy and insolvency, because my learned divide against it..
friend has treated those subjects so clearly, and has alleged Lord C. PAG ET said the reason he did not raise a dis •
such forcible reasons for the propositions he has made, that cussion on the s übject at present was that in a few days
I think they must meet with general approbation. (Hear.) the Navy Estimates would be produced. He should then
I will say no more, except that I hope my learned friend have to ask an inconsiderable sum of money, which, how-
will receive all the assistance the house can afford.him in ever, he was b( mod to say, would be only for the commence-
promoting this measure, and that, after all the changes ment of a very large work. It was then his intention to lay
that have been made in the law of bankruptcy, and after all Wore the house a general plan of that work. He could not
the dissatisfaction that has been expressed as to the admi- promise to produce a plan minute in all its details, but it
nistration of a matter so important to a mercantile people, would :be sufficient to give the house a general idea of the
he may be able to identify his name with a measure that whole Van proposed by the Government. The object of
will be at once satisfactory and permanent. (Hear, hear.) the bill wAS not to enable the Admiralty to purchase more
Mr. JAMES concurred with the right hon. gentleman in than a very em all portion of land, and ho doubted whether
trusting that the learned Attorney-General would be ablo to it would neeeBBVTY to purchase any. The main object of
proceed without delay to the second reading of the bill. fie the measure was to enable the Government to reclaim St.
would not utter a word that might be deemed.fulsome praise Mary's Island, by which ran a creek, little used, but which
of the Attorney-General for the very lucid manner in which it would be necessary to appropriate for the purpose of en-
he had explained the measure to the house. There were one larging the dockyard. Be assured the house he would
or, two important principles involved in it which would re- not conceal from it any of the ultimate intentions of the
quire the serious consideration of the house. One of these Government.
was the new plan, which he believed would be an improve • Leave was also given to Lord C. PAGET to bring in a
ment, of allowing creditors to settle their own affairs among bill to enable the Admiralty to acquiry property for the
themselves. It must not be forgotten, however, that al- enlar2ement of the Royal Marine Barracks, in the parish
though the system of official assignees had proved costly lof East Stonehouse, in the county of Devon. The bill was
and troublesome at the first, it had led to the collection of read a first time.
large amounts and long arrears; and that cases were well
known where creditors' assignees had retained large sums
in their possession for a very long period without dis-
tril uting them among the creditors. Abuses of that
nature might, however, be guarded against by a stringent
system of audit. There were, he conceived, safeguards in
the present bill which entirely removed the just 'objections
urged against the assimilation of bankruptcy and insol-
vency in the measure of last session. He approved the
power which the judge was to have with regard to pro-
perty afterwards acquired. It would be the duty of the
judge to consider not merely whether the debtor had con
tracted the liability in a fraudulent and improper manner,
but also whether the creditor's share in the transaction
would bear investigation—for if there were extravagant
and fraudulent bankrupts on the one side there were also
grasping and avaricious creditors on the other. (Hear.)
The courts of law and equity frequently brought to light
the most monstrous conduct on the part of creditors against
young men with expectations of• future means. He recol-
lected a case in which a debt of £520,000 was alleged
against a young man who declared that the only portion of
that sum he had ever received was £5,000, which had been
advanced by a Jew money lender ; but by renewals and in-
terest the debt had risen from £5,000 to the enormous
amount he had stated. If non-traders were to be brought
under the bankruptcy law, they ought to be protected
from the extortion of avaricious creditors, and he believed
the measure of the learned gentleman would secure that
end,

LAW OF LUNACY.

Sir G. C. LEWIS (in answer to Mr. WALPOLE) said
that a bill to amend the law of lunacy was in preparation,
and he hoped to bring it in on a tolerably early day. He
might also stato that the Lord Chankllor intended to bring
in a bill on the subject of ChaneeryTun.atics, which would
be a separate ram sure.
RED SEA AND INDIA TELEGRAPH CO. BILL.
This bill was bran' gilt in and read a first time. .
The house adjouraed at a few minutes before 10 o'clock.

CO (WIWI MARKETS.

COLCIIVASTER-FEB. 9.

A fair supply of wheat k Ind barley ; best samples taken
readily at the full prices of last week. Beans and peas in
demand for seed.

Wheat, white 6os to 68s Beans, Mazagan..36s to 42s
red 44s to 60s ! Middle & small 44s to 50s
Barley 4OB to 48s White peas 4Ba to 52-
Oats —s to —s I O'rey 42- to 48.

Mr. TURNERhinted that the lawyers and the merchants
had somewhat diverse interests in this question. The
lawyers were the cats and the men of business the mice. (A
laugh.) What the mercantile community sought was that
where a bankruptcy was due to misfortune the bankrupt
should receive honourable acquittal, and that the creditors
should be enabled to realise speedily and inexpensively
whatever property was left. He expressed general approval
of the bill of the learned gentleman, and hoped its progress
would not be delayed.
Mr. MELLOR believed that the measure now proposed
to the house obviated the objections raised against the
former one. That portion of the bill which gave creditors
power to make arrangements by a vote of the majority,
without the interference of the court, met with the warm
approbation of his constituents.
Mr. ROEBUCK observed that the learned Attorney-
General had stated that there was nothing about compen-
sation for suppressed places in his bill ; and wished to know
whether he intended to make any provision for the official
assignees who were to be deprived of their situations The
hon. member for Manchester had alluded to a supposed an-
tagonism between lawyers and commercial men, and had
spoken of the former as cats and the latter as mice, He
begged to remind the hon. gentleman that in doing so he
had placed commercial men in the category of vermin. (A
laugh.)
Mr. PAULL hoped that the Attorney-General would
take means to secure one at least of the Government nights
of each week for the consideration of the bill. (Hier.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thanked hon. members
on both sides of the house for the manner in which his
humble effort to amend the laws of bankruptcy and insol-
vency had been received. This measure was one alniost
entirely of detail, and he should not consider that its second
reading pledged the house to anything more than the
simple proposition that the administration of the law of
bankruptcy required amendment. He had quite felt the
force of the doubt which had been suggested by his right
hon. friend the member for Cambridge as to giving juris-
diction in bankruptcy to the County Courts ; but his right
hon. friend would observe that he gave to those courts no
greater powers than they already possessed, except as con.
cerned that voluntary jurisdiction, if he might so express it,
which they would receive by the vote of the creditors. If
the hon. and learned member for Sheffield referred to -the
repot is of the spee.hc. which were uitule upon the me.e.ro
for establishing official assignees, he would find that those
officers were appointed upon the hypothesis that the in-
come received by them in London would be about £BOO or
£lOOO. The returns which had been made by themselves
for a series of years showed that the income received by
them in London had been about £l,lOO a year. This bill
proposed to make allowances to official assignees, which
would give them in London a maximum of £1,200, and in
the country of £l,OOO a year. They would also be relieved
from the responsibility of being ,liable to the costs -of
suits that might be brought against them, and there-
fore he thought that the proposition which was to be made
would leave them little grounds for complaint. The bill
which he introduced last year was allowed to be read a second
• time pro forma, and under those circumstances he should
venture to ask the house to allow him to take the second
reading of this bill on Thursday, not that there might be
a debate, but that the house might more rapidly go into
committee, where there must necessarilyb9 much discussion.
In committee he trusted that the bill would receive such
consideration that we might not two years hence find our-
selves in such a situation as that in which we now stood
with reference to past changes in the law. (Hear, hear.)
Leave was given, and the bill was subsequently brought
in and read a first time.
COPYRIGHT IN WORKS OF ART.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL explained that the notice
of his intention to mdve for leave to introduce a bill upon
this subject had by an error been placed upon the paper this
evening. He should make that motion next Monday.
Mr. CARDWELL obtained leave to introduce bills for
the registration of births, marriages, and deaths, and for
the better regulation of markets and fairs in Ireland.
BANKRUPTCY COURT.
On the motion of Mr. MURRAY, returns were ordered of
the revenue and expenditure, balances, and the number of
sittings of the Court of Bankruptcy for the year 1860.
CHATHAM DOCKYARD.
Lord C. PAGET moved for leave to bring in a bill ena-
bling the Admiralty to acquire property for the enlargement
of her Majesty's dockyard at Chatham, and to embank part
of the river Medway. The immediate object of the bill was
to enable the Admiralty to close St. Mary's-creek, near
Chatham, with the ultimate object ofenlarging the dockyard
in that direction. When the naval estimates were brought
in he should state the amount that would be asked for this
purpose, and describe the plan of the works proposed.
Sir F. SMITH was glad the noble lord intended to
introduce this bill. No arsenal required enlargement so
much as Chatham. In the last session he had himself
brouglt in a bill on the subject ; an enlargement of the works
at Chaiham was proposed so long ago as 1814, and he be-
lieved the plan then suggested was the best ever devised.
No doubt the Government had some other to bring forward,
but in, a great work of this kind plans ought to be called for
from the most eminent men of the day, and thoroughly dis-
cussed by the Government or a committee of the house,
that they might know exactly what they had to deal with.
The question of acquiring the land he perfectly agreed with,
and should support the proposal ; but he hoped the plan of
the works in detail would be laid before the house. If the
arsenal of Chatham had been extended some years ago, they
would have saved the immense Outlay of moneyat Woolwich
and Deptford—places incapableOf defence. Chatham, with
proper works, could be better defended even than Ports-
mouth. No doubt, a large amount would be demanded, both
in the present and succeeding years to divert the Medway,
embank it, and enclose St. Mary's Creek; but if it was in-
tended to increase the navy by the addition of large vessels,
they must enlarge their docks to receive the skips of in-
creased dimensions. There was no locality better adapted
for such docks than the Medway, provided Government
made itself certain that the river was not silting up, or that
the present depth of water could be preserved by dredging.
He hoped the house would be well informed of the extent
and plan of the works to be carried out.
Mr. WHITE observed there were only seven members
present on the Opposition side of the house, and about a
dozen on the Ministerial benches, most of them members
of the Government. He supposed the noble lord's elo-
quence had been frozen by the empty appearance of the
house; but he ought to have told them a little more about
the bill he asked leave to introduce; other Government
measures that had been introduced that evening had been
explained at considerable length. He should ;not be
surprised if hon. members were told next year this
was part of the £75,000,000 they were spending ; and
it would be thrown in their teeth that they were not in
their places when the bill was brought in, doing their duty
by watching the action of an extravagant Government.
When the noble lord was asked why the Admiralty had
dismissed a, large number of the workmen at present em-
ployed in the dockyards he stated that the Government
were now building ships in private yards. If experience had
shown that ships could be built more cheaply in private
yards than in Government establishments, the noble lord
ought to give gbod reasons when he asked for an extension
of the dockyard system. He (Mr. hite) thought the whole
system a blunder. When the noble lord was on the other
side of the house he was most eloquent in denouncing it.
He proved satisfactorily that vessels could be built cheaper
and better in private establishments than by the Govern-
ment, or if not better, certainly cheaper. The noble lord
ought to have given some explanation of tho plan, before
ukiPg the limo to consort even to tie fatrotNotic4 of the