The Sun.
London, England, 1861-05-24 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

Several petitions were presented praying for the adoption
of measures to develope the agricultural and commercial
resources of India, for a more equitable arrangement with
reference to the exercise of their religious worship by
Roman Catholics in workhouses, and for increased facili-
ties for the religious education of Roman Catholic children,
for an alteration in the mode of levying the income tax, ecc.

PROVIDENT SOCIETIES.
Mr. SLANEY gave notice that on Tuesday next he
would move for leave to bring in a bill to amend and extend
the act relating to provident societies.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY,
Lord J. RUSSELL, in the absence of Lord Palmerston,
moved that the house would immediately resolve itself into
committee of supply, and stated that the motion had be-
come necessary in consequence of the house having boon
counted out one night preceding the recess.
DOCKYARD MANAGEMENT.

On the motion that the Speaker do leave the chair,
Sir F. SMITH rose to call the attention of the house to
the report of the Commissioners appointed to inquire
into the control and management of her Ma-
jesty's naval yards, and to move, " that it is expe-
dient that such reforms should be made in the control
and management of her Majesty's naval yards as will tend
to promote greater efficiency, and consequently to insure
greater economy in those establishments." He said the
Commission to which he wished to call attention was com-
posed of very able men; it sat a considerable time; it ex-
amined 72 witnesses, and asked about 11,000 questions;
and he ventured to assert that not one of those witnesses
said that the management of the dockyards was other than
inefficient; the evidence accumulated proofs of all that was
stated in the report of the Commission. It appeared that
there was no harmony of action between the leading officers
of this department; that the Controller of the Navy could
exercise no effective power, though he had the responsibility;
between him and the storekeeper there was scarcely any
communication that could lead to accuracy of proceeding ;
the accounts were minute, but mystified and irregular, and,
for practical purposes, of little or no value. To show how
true these statements were, and how long the system they
describe had existed, he would quote some of the evidence,
given before the Commission; among others, that of the
right hon. baronet the member for Carlisle (Sir J. Graham).-
He stated that so little control was there over the appro-
priation of money, that when he was First Lord of the Ad-
miralty a large building was erected, for which no vote was
passed by the House of Commons, and of which the.
house had no information. Then there was the evi-
dence to the same effect of Sir R. Bromley, the Accountant-
General. There were numerous small items in the ac-
counts, £lOO and £2OO, or £l,OOO and £2,000; there wag
abundance of minute detail; but whether a line-of-battle
ship cost £120,000 or £200,000 the house could not ascer-
tain. With such a system any mercantile firm would be
ruined. In the evidence of the Controller of the Navy
there was also this startling fact, that at various times after
a plan and programme had been drawn up by the Board of
Admiralty and sent down to the dockyards it was discovered
that the materials required were not in store. On several
occasions for the want of seasoned timber work had been
stopped, on others unseasoned timber had been used. This
was a state of things to be deeply regretted and deplored.
He did not know what answer the noble lord the Secretary
of the Admiralty might make to his motion. He might say
that the evidence did not bear out the recommendations of
the Commission ; he might state that another committee wan
then sitting upstairs on the Board of Admiralty itself ; or
he might say that it.was the intention of the Government
to carry out many of the recommendations of the Commis-
sion. This he should be very glad to hear, but as to the
committee upstairs it had not much to do with the question
before the house. If the noble lord disputed the report of
the Commission on the ground that it was not borne out by
the evidence, on t at point he would join issue with the
noble lord. He should be very reluctant to bring forward a
blue-book containing 11,229 questions, or to quote much
from it ; but there were a few answers that he should like
I to read to the house. Not many members had time to read
the whole of the evidence and the report. Probably the noble
Secretary of.the Admiralty had not been able to examine it
minutely. But it was a question of such importance to the
country, to the taxpayers, and to the House of Commons,
that it ought to be thorougly sifted and examined—(hear)—
and he hoped he should Obtain the indulgence of the house
for a few minutes, while he brought forward some of the
recommendations of the Commission. One change was re-
commended by the Secretary of the Admiralty himself ; it
was that another Lord of the Admiralty should be ap-
pointed, who should be specially charged with the manage-
ment of the dockyards. It was recommended that the store •
keeper should be placed under the Controller-General.
Perhaps the noble lord would say the Controller would be
sorry to take that charge. He certainly had a good deal
to do already; but by appointing another Lord of the
Admiralty, with the entire charge of the dockyard manage-
ment, that difficulty would be overcome. In a case of so
much importance the house would not begrudge one or two
additional lords of the Admiralty. It wished the public
money to be well spent, and to know how it was spent,
That was not the case at present. For instance, take the
manner in which contracts were made ; it was done in a
very slovenly manner. There was the case of the Warrior,
She was a vessel of entirely new construction. The draw-
ings were prepared by the Surveyor of the Navy, and sent
to different builders; on those drawings they were to make

tenders. With everything connected with the vessel diffe-
rent to what had been used before, how long did the house
suppose the builders were allowed to make up their minds
as to the plan and its cost? A month? No. A week? No;
just four clear days. That was the time allowed them to
make all their calculations. And the correspondence showed
that alteration after alteration was made in the Warrior,
with increase of cost as the consequence ; all because suffi-
cient time was not allowed at first. It was impossible for
any man in four or five days, or a week, to make an accu
rate estimate and tender for such a work; and surely, be-
fore any tender was accepted by the Admiralty, it had
formed some calculation of its own. In this case the lowest
tender was not accepted because the contractors required 16
or 18 months to complete the ship. The tender at £2 10s.
more per ton was accepted, because the parties who obtained
the contract undertook to build the ship in 11 months. It
was quite clear that this could not be done, for the ship wa
to be a model for others ; and the contractors were com-
pelled to take the timber from one particular company.
Then take the case of the gunboats. Of 276 gunboats there
were only 27 that did not require alterations that added to
the cost. (Hear, hear.) He would now read to the house
the first and most stringent paragraph of the report. The
Commissioners regretted to state that, "in their opinion,
the control and management of the dockyards are ineffi-
cient." That inefficiency they attribute to the following
1 causes—" the constitution of the Board of Admiralty, the

defective organization of the subordinate departments; and
the want of clear and well-defined responsibility." The re-

port also noticed the contradictory orders that were given
causing
Aelay and prejudice to the public service. It also
.. - .
____
stated that the constitution of the Board of Adnursilt, wa''
ent of
incompatible with effective and economical manes ge:_i__
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the dockyards. Sir B. Walker stated that h_ had '''
, every
or seven changes in the 13 years he had bdeeLeinrations: And
surely it was
charge causing different arrangements
it appeared from the evidence that
wonedge
a:ember of the board
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Minister for the Navy Diloet-
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Bested that a Min
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for building and "
man:tents repairing her Majesty's ships ;
that the Minister for the Navy Department should have
the Power of appointing the Controller-General, and that
the Controller should select the superintendents of the dif-
ferent dockyards. This suggestion, if adopted, would be
da:kyee.ards should. .
likely to saddle the country with an unnecessary number of
officers. The report stated that " the system of accounts
was elaborate and minute, but agar as we can judge its re-
sults are not to be relied on for any practical purpose." The
Accountant-General,
Sir R. Bromley, in his evidence said,
if he had been permitted, he could have put the accounts
en a better system, but for that purpose he must have a
greater number of clerks. But how many had he already ?
No less than 177. He did not see how he could manage that
number ; it was their number made the difficulty; he believed
if the 100 were struck off, and only the 77 retained, the
I work would be better done. In the different departments
' there was a whole army of clerks; if the clerks in the
Admiralty and the War-office alone were armed with rifles,
and sent to the outskirts of London, they would form a
mall army. There were 600 of them. It appeared that the
audit at present instituted was of an imperfect kind, being
au internal audit only, whereas to be really effective it
ought to be an external audit also. The opinion had been
repeatedly expressed that large retrenchments might be
effected in the present dockyard expenditure. He hoped his
noble friend (Lord C. Paget) would be able to 00411°7
these improvements could be accomplished, and how this
WPM)? might be effected, What the colut37 Vrail Wag