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London, England, 1857-07-28 00:00:00

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IPRIM', 4D. STAMPED SD.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION.

HOUSE OF CONIMONS-JULY 27.
INDIA.

Motion made and question put, " That the debate ba
now adjourned." The house divided : ayes, 79 ; noes, 203.

AYES-79.
Adderley, C. B. Goderich, Viscount Repton, G.
Annesley. Hon. Hugh Gray, Captain • Roebuck, J. A.
Archiell, Capt. M. Griffith, C. Sclater, George
Bailey, C. Orr ney, T. 11. Sibthorp, Major
Baillie, H. Hamilton, G. A. Smith, J. 11.
Bernard, W. ILtmilton, J. Spooner, IL
Beach, W. Henley, J. St:mtope, J.
H( nth ick, G. Ifo,L.'son, William Stirling, W.
Brockk hurst, J. Hopwood. John Steuart, 1.1
llrace, Major Hudson, G. Sullivan. Michael
Bruce, H. A. Johnstone, II B. Taylor, Colonel
Bailer, Fir j. Knox, Col. B. W. Tempest, Lord A. V.
Burghley, Lori Lennox, Lord H. G. Trefusls, C.
Cairns. 11. Liddell, 11. G. Vance, John
Cheethain, John M acartney, George Vausittart, W.
Cobbold, J. C . Maguire, J. F. Vivian, J. C.
Cole, 11. A. Matins, Richard Walcott, Admiral.
Denison, W. H. Manners, Lord J. Walpole. S.
Dillwyn, L. L. Miles, W. Whiteside, J.
Disraeli, B. Mowbray, J. R. Whitmore. 11.
Dod, J. Na ier, J. Williams, T.
Du Cane, C. Ossalston, Lord Williams, W.
Elton, Sir A. 11. Paltington, Sir J. Wood, W.
Ennis, John Palk, L.
Fitzgerald, W. R. S. Paull, Henry
Forester, Ccl. Perry, Sir E.
Galway, Viscount Powell, Francis Ayrton, A.
Gard, It. Pugh, D. Hadfield, George

TELLERS.

-
NOES-203.
Akroyel,-E. Fol.lambe, Francis Nisbet, R. P. "
Anderson, Sir J. Forster, Charles Norreys, Sir D.
Antrobus. E. Foster, W. 0. North, F.
Ilagyrell,lohn Fortescue, Hon. F. Ogilvy, Sir J.
Baines, Rt. lion. M. French, Colonel Osborne, Ig.
Baring, Sir F. Garnett, William Paget, C.
Baring, T. Glyn, G. Palmerston, Viscount
Baring. F. ..,.,. - Glyn, 41. . ~- Pattoti, Col. -
Baring, T. G. Gordon, Lach'an I). Paxton, Sir J.
Barnard, Thomas Greer, Samuel Peehell, Sir G.
Bass, M. o regeon, Samuel Pevensey, Viscount
Beale, S. Grenfcll, O. P. Philips, R.
Beecroft, G. Grenfell, Charles W. Philipps, J.
Biggs, John Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir G. Pilkington, J.
Black, Adam Grey, It. Finney, Col.
Blackburn, Peter Gurdon, Brampton Platt, J.
B ake, J. II ackblock, William Price, W.
B mham-Carter, J. Banbury, Robert Pritchard, .T.
P.ouverie, Hon. E. P. Hankey, T. Ramsden, Sir J.
Bouverie, P. Harris, J. D. Rebow, J.
Bowyer, G. ll,seard, Michael Ricardo, 0.
Brand, Hon. 11. Liatchell, John Rich, [I.
Brown, J. Headlam. T. Ridley, George
Buchanan, Walter Heneage, Geo. F. Roup..ll, W.
J.
Ituder. J. W. Herbert, H. Russell, Lord J.
Butt, I. Ho,igson, K. Russell, 11.
Buxton, C. Holland, E. Russell, F. W.
Iluxtol, Sir E. N. liornby, NV. II us:ell, Sir W.
BYng,, G. 11. C. Horsfall, T. Rust, James
Caird, J. foreman, E. Schneider, Henry
Calcraft, J. Howard, C. Scholefleld, \V.
Culc..tt, M. Ingham, R. Seymour, Danhy
Campbell, R. J. R. Ingrain, H. Smith, V.
Castlerosse, Pis. Jermytt, Rt.. fn. Earl Smith, A.
Churchill, Lord A. Jervoise, Sir J. Somers, J. P.
Clay, James Keating, Sir H. Somerville, Sir W.
Clifford, C. C. Kendall, N. Stapleton, John
C ive, George Ker, Richard Stuart, Colontl
Close, H. Kershaw, J. Sy I, ef , Col nel
Cob:Jett, J. M. Kinolake, A.' Taucred, 11.
Codriogton, G-n. Kinnaird, A. Thompson, General
Colchrooke, Sir E. Kirk, W. Thornely, T.
Coningliam, W. Knatchbull-Huguemen Tits, W.
Cowper, NV. F. Laboncliere,ltt.lion.ll Trelawny, Sir J.
Cox, W. Legb, G. C. Turner, J. A.
Cranfurd, E. H. J. Levinge, Sir R. Vivian, 11. If.
Crawford, It. W. Lewis, Sir G.C. Waldron, Laurence
Cross, li. A. Lindsay, W. Wart.urton, Major
f'algPsh, It. I 0,-se, Jolnt Warre, John
l,a,y, It. Lowe, It. Watliinq, Col.
Doing, Sir E. IV acarthy, Alex. Wegnelin, T.
De Vere, S. E. 2-Mann. J. Western, S
Dodson, J. Mackie, J. Westnead, Joshua
Dundai, F. Mackinnon, W. White, lames
Dunlop, A. Mangles, It. D. Williams, S r W.
Bettor., lien. R. 11. Mangles, C. Willyarus, E.
Ellice, E. Inarjeribanks, D. Wiiloagi:by, J.
Elphinstone, Sir J. :Martin, C. Willson, A.
Esmonde, J. Martin, 1.. Wilson, .1.
Evans, T. W. Martin, J. Wingfield, R.
Ewart, W. Massey, W. Wood, Sir C.
Ewart, J. Mathe.!on, A. Wors:ey, Lord
Fagan, W. Melcund, Lord Wrightson, W.
l'ar.J. h.tr, Sir 11f. Moffat, (I. Wyld, James
Ferguson, ~,ir R.,bert Monereifr, J. Windham, Gen.
Finlay, A. Montgomery, Sir G.
Fitzgerald, J. Morris, I).
Fitzroy, Henry Napier, Sir C.
Foley, J. H. Nie Al, D.

TELLERS.
Ray ter, W.
Mulgr.ive, Earl of

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
FINSBURY PARK BILL.
Lord WENSLEYDALE moved that in the ca,e of
the Fiusbury Park Did (No. 2) the sessional order
that no private Lill be read a second tune after the 21st
of July be dispensed with, in order that the hill be read
a second time.
After a few werds from Lord REDESDA.LE, the mo-
tion was rgreed to and the bill was read a second time.
AFFAIRS OF INDIA.
Teo Marquis of CLANUICARDE moved for copies
of the curreqelndence of the Court of Directors with the
Ward of Control and with the Governor-General of India,
relating to the amount of European forces,
either of the British or the Indian army, to
be maintained in that country since the let
of April, 1856; or relating to the employment of military
officers upon political or other civil cervices. In making
this motion he had nut the slightest wish to embarass
the Government. He had every reliance on their energy,
and en the energy of his noble friend and relative the
Governor-General of India, and he was uro that Parlia-
meet would be ready to grant whatever was required in
the present emergency. But they had a din y beyond
that of putting down the mutiny in India. He had no
doubt, and no rational wan could doubt., that the autho-
rity of this country would be re-establiebed in India,
whether in a week or a month, or three months. But
when that was effected, the real difficulty of the Parlia-
ment and Government of this country would only have
commenced, because it would be necessary to revise,
recast, and reconstruct the whole machinery by which
India was governed. It was absurd to supp ice that the
pro-ent machinery ceuld go on. Could anything be more
ridiculous than to hear a Minister of the Crown inform-
ing the Perliameet of the country that it had pleased
certain gentlemen in Leadenhelastreet to allow the
seeding of 14,000 men to India i The present state of
things could only lead to embarrassment. If a difference
of opinion arose between the Board of Control and the
Court of Directors, the Minister of the Crown could
only compel the Court of Directors to sign his odor by
a mandamus. He was not insensible to the career of
the East India Company, which was one without a paral-
lel, and performed things of which it might well be
proud ; but that company aas ready and virtually ex-
tinguished in 1533. The disgraceful state of the Indian
tribunals and Indian finance was not denied, and now
the picture was cmipleted by the state of the Indian
army. With a population of 100,000,000 in India, could
any one believe that if that country had been well go-
verned, it would not have afforded England considerable
aid in the last war with Russia! The fact wa', how-
ever, that the actual Government of India was unable
to spare a single pound or single man, or a single pound
of gunpowder, in aid of the British army. It well go-
verned, the Indian army would be the terror of Europe
and of Asia. But now, India afforded the unparalleled
and anomalous example of 30,000 troops melting away
from our command, without an object, without a corn-
men purpose, without any ostensible cause whatever. It
should be borne in mind that some of these men had
spent 13 or 14 years in the army, which was so much
towards the obtaining a pension for the rest of their
lives. Eelistment, too, was voluntary, and looked
upon as a prize. He did not beieve that this mutiny
was caused by greased cartridges. or by any religious
feeling, because the Mahometan as well as the Hindoo
soldiers were in revolt. But it appeared that whilst all
the officers who had been in India said that they were not
surprised at the outbreak, the Government and the Court
of Directors had been taken by surprise. Nor were these
statements of the Indian officers prophecies after the
event, because he had a letter written a year and a-half
ago, by an Indian officer to his friends at home, in which
he says—" For my part, I believe we are on the brink
of agr at outbreak." Was that all I Did not the noble
earl opposite (Rlenborough) mention to his superiors the
state of insubordination in which the Bengal army was I
Yet no steps had been taken to prevent a mutiny, and
the Court of Directors expressed their surprise at that
event when it did not come with surprise or any other
man. Many well-known causes might be referred to for
the present state of the army—for instance, officers being
detached from their regiments to perform duties which
ought not to be imposed on the military but on the Po-
lice. Again, changes in discipline and other matters had
been made, without being properly explained to the men.
Political action, annexations, and the deposition of native
princes, had had a great effect on the minds of tehewee
sol-
diers, as regarded our moral supremacy. They we r
-eop
long let
to look upon us, not only as the most powerful
returnedp
but as the most just. A friend of his, not
from India, who was in the habit of communicating much
with the natives, said that he had never foundany ques-
tion so difficult to answer as when he was asked why the
King of Oude bad been deposed and hislisetnerrottourdyeaannsnwexeerde
to the dominions of this ceuntry. any
soldiers in our army. But the !great that which lay
at the foundation of the revolt in India., was the manner
in which our army was officered. He did not believe that
the Court of Directors, in sending over young men from
this country, made a worse choice than any other body
of men would do. The young Englishmen sent out
might be a fair average of the generality of their country-
men, but what he found fault with was the system of
promotion and of employment of officers when they got
out. Among the many valuable suggestions of Sir Chas.
Napier, both in his evidence before their lordships and in
his writinge, he recommended that young men appointed
to the army of India should first pass some time in
England with a regiment, in order to learn regimental
duties before they were sent out. While a young man in
the civil employment only became eligible after a certain
time passed in India, those appointed to the army were
immediately placed at the head of their regiments with-
out any knowledge of their duties. Of course the native
non-commissioned officer who bad to drill such a youth
had not the respect for him which he would have if he
came out perfect in his duties. Sir C. Napier mentioned
a battalion of 800 men which had only two European
officers, one of them a young ensign, who, if anything
had happened to the senior officer, would have had to
take the command of the battalion, and who did not even
understand Low to drill a company or a guard.. Only
last week he met a friend who bad a son in the Indian
army, and who had been with his regiment 12 years. The