The Sun.
London, England, 1861-03-12 00:00:00

NAVAL EXPENDITURE.

Mr. LINDSAY said with reference to resolutions which
he had on the paper, he would not offer any opposition
to Government carrying out the construction
of iron vessels. His only object was to
secure as far as possible the best expenditure of the public
money.

The house then went into committee of supply.
THE NAVY ESTIMATES.

Lord C. PAGET—The Navy Estimates for the year 1861-
2, which it is my duty to bring under the consideration of
the Committee, amount in all to the sum of £12,029,475,
showing a decrease upon the estimates for the current year
of £806,625. The estimates for 1861-2 are distinctly ordi-
nary estimates,--that is to say, they do not embrace any
extraordinary items ; whereas the estimates for the year
now passing contained a considerable extraordinary sum on
account of the'hostilities in China. That extraordinary
sum was included in the vote for the transport of troops. It
amounted in all to £2os,ooo—namely, £120,000 for trans-
sports and £85,000 for coals for those transports. To ar•
rive, therefore, at the real decrease upon our estimates for
the current year we must deduct suet sum or- A.,llo,Uklu 114,111
the gross or apparent decrease, which stands at £806,625.
It will thus be seen that the actual decrease shown in the
ordinary estimates for the current year amounts to £601,625.
This decrease arises under three great votes. There are
various minor items of decrease, but the principal items of
decrease in next year's Estimates are Votes 1,2, and 8.
Vote 1 is for the number of men; Vote 2 is for provisions,
victuals for those men; and No. 8 is the great labour vote
of the dockyards. Now, the decrease under these votes
amounts to a very considerable sum ; but her Majesty's
Government have thought that a large addition should be
made to Vote 10 for the next financial year, under the head
of " Purchase of Timber and other Stores." The hon.
baronet the member for Evesham called attention last year
to the state of our stores, and I think he very wisely gave
us the advice that we should not be without any stocks in
hand, but that a decent and respectable stock of tim•
ber should be, kept in the dockyards, with a view to
emergencies. As I shall allude to that presently when we
' come to the particular vote, I will not trouble the house
with any further remarks on it now ; but I will at once ad-
dress myself to Vote I—that is, for the number of men
which her Majesty's Government thought it their duty to
ask the House of Commons to agree to for the year 1861-2.
Now, Sir, the number of men we propose to take for the
coming year is altogether 78,200. That includes every class
of men and boys in the service, and even the civilians who
are in the Coastguard service. Therefore, we show during
the coming financial year a reduction of no less than 7,300
men from the vote taken at the commencement of the pre-
sent year. That will be a very large decrease in the strength
of the navy. (Hear, hear.) But I must inform the house
that although her Majesty's Government at the commence-
ment of the present financial year thought it right, viewing
the hostilities then going on in China, and the probability
of the extension of those hostilities, to ask the house to
agree to the large vote of £85,500, I stated at the time I had
the honour to bring the estimates before the house that the
Government, supposing that the war should happily come
to an end, and other circumstances should permit, would
not think incumbent on them to bear the whole number of
men the house had agreed to. Sir, events have happily
turned out so that the government were enabled during
the past year to maintain a much smaller number of men
than were voted, and yet the service, particularly that in

, .
China, has been conducted with every success and advan-
tage to the public. The greatest number of men who have
been borne at any time during the past year are 81,100 in
all; so that the difference between that number and 78,200
which we ask for on the present occasion is the real de-
crease in the forces we propose to maintain during the com-
ing year. The actual reduction, then, in the number of
men is 2,900. lam bound to state to the house that if the
hostilities in China had gone on, not only should we have
required large reinforcements, but undoubtedly we should
have required to relieve the ships that had been a long time

on that station. But lam happy, as I before stated, that
hostilities have ceased; the war has been brought to a satis-
factory Mad glorious termination, and we are enabled to
bring home about 3,000 men from China. So that the state
of her Majesty's navy, both for the defence of our shores
and for the protection of our commerce in all parts of the
globe, will, in point of fact, not be reduced by a single man.
Now, with regard to the expenditure in China, I think it
right to inform the committee that we have not been able,
either as to personnel or materiel, to give the house at this
moment any idea of what the cost of that war will amount
to. Her Majesty's Government thought it right to send out
a very efficient accountant officer to Hongkong with a view
to gather in all the accounts, and in fact wind up the affair,
and I trust that ere long the Government will be in a posi-
tion to state to the house what has been the real cost of the
war. Whenever we have the accounts, it will be my duty
to lay them before the house, if it should be necessary to
have a vote on the subject. I have stated that the force at
home for the protection of our shores, and also for the pro-
tection of our commerce in distant parts, is maintained
equally strong, equally powerful as it has been during the
past year; but I may state also to the house what I think
will be considered very satisfactory—namely, that we have
a large accession to our force at the present time. I believe
I am justified in stating that the Royal Naval Reserve,
which the house agreed to last year, is making great pro-
' gress ; that the seamen are becoming very desirous of enter-
ing that force; that all those delusions and prejudices that
existed in the minds of the merchant seamen of the country
are fast vanishing away; and that we are, in fact, justified
in asking the house, as we do on the present occasion, for a
sum of money for the support of tliat force, whiCh will
amount, I have every reason to believe, to 7,000 by the end
of next financial year. The house has always expressed
very great interest in the matter of the Royal ~Naval Re-
serve. Many gentlemen have said it was a failure. I have
heard it often remarked in the house, rather lightly, that
the scheme never would succeed ; that the men would not
enter the force; and that the whole would be a failure. Now,
so far from that, I will take the liberty of reading an extract
from a letter which I received within the last day or two frem
the Registrar-General of seamen. After stating that we have
k now nearly 4,000 men enrolled, he says, " They are coming