The Sun.
London, England, 1857-11-06 00:00:00

SUN, LONDON,
•*lforoat purpose. He quite agreed with the Board
,
"at there should be no open sewers.
r . THWAITES-IVhat do you mean?
Sir • B. HALL Paid he thought it extremely des
sirab! e that all channels for • the sewers should be
covsi ed. Then, with regard to the outfalls, he was
quits ready to admit that if the outfells were made
ascot :ding to plan B*, it would meet the immediate
rev irements of the metropolis ; but what would be
the. es ,nsequence if he were to sanction that plan ?
His it apression was that if they were to stop at
B* the 3 would immediately be proceeded against,
and be t lompelled to abandon that outfall, and he
did not t hink the Board would subject itself to such
risks. The more the question was gone into
the more did it become the feeling of the public
that the pt 'int of discharge should be much lower
down the rover than at Be, and he thought the
point selected by the referees was the best point of
discharge that could be determined upon. Then,
with respect to the funds necessary for meeting the
extra expense that would be incurred by carrying
the point of discharge down to Sea Reach, he re-
peated that he had never said one word as to Go-
vernment advancing a single farthing towards the
work. Even if Government entertained such an
idea he was perfectly certain Parliament would
never sanction it. He did not agree with Mr.
Thwaites that the whole matter turned upon a ques-
tion of finance. This was a great work entrusted to
the Metropolitan. Board—a work that would last
for ages and generations to come, and ought to be
carried out in the best, the most generous, and the
most liberal spirit. No doubt every consideration
%ought to be given as to effecting the work with a
proper economy, but at the same time, he would
repeat, the views of the Legislature ought to be
carried out in a liberal spirit, and so vast a work
ought to be accomplished without too minute a re-
gard for expense. It was said that the metropolis
was placed in a different position from that of other
towns, and Liverpool had been referred to ; but Li-
verpool was an exceptional case. It had old charters
of incorporation under which the borough had the
power of taxing the whole world. The shipping
dues were very great and were extended over the
shipping of all countries. The proceeds of those
dues .and other powers possessed by the corpo-
ration were so great that they were able to
effect large improvements in the town of Liverpool.
Bat that was not the case with other towns. Man-
chester was also cited. That city had but
recently received municipal powers, and yet
no town in England had improved so rapidly
as Manchester. The only source of revenue,
however, which Manchestr possessed .was a Gas
Company, the proceeds of which were not very
large. But supposing they were it only proved
that the inhabitants were taxed by means of pay-
ing for gas that which they would otherwise have
to pay in the shape of a rate. Many improvements
had been effected in Manchester out of funds paid
by the people of that town ; he thought, therefore,
that the metropolis was placed on precisely the
same footing as Manchester.
Mr. THWAITES said London had been fur many
years neglected, there being no governing power
whose duty it was to carry out improvements ; a
large amount of arrears had therefore accumulated,
and the Board had now to grapple with the burden
by means of an increased direct taxation, instead of
by a slower and indirect mode of taxation.
Sir B. HALL said the metropolis was precisely on
the same footing as Manchester was when that city
first received municipal power. In neither case
were there any funds whatever to draw upon except
the rates.
Mr. THWAITES—But we have to provide for a
very large amount of Government property which
does not pay one shilling in rates.
Sir B. HALL—There you are mistaken. It is
true that public offices do not pay directly in the
shape of rates ; but if the Crown does not pay
rates, it pays by way of contribution under protest
a sum equal to the rates, with the exception of the
Royal palaces and the Houses of Parliament.
If the question is to be viewed as one of finance,
you must not only take into consideration the
amount to be expended, but you must also con-
sider the amount upon which the aesessment is to
be made, and then you will arrive at the main fact,
viz., the amount in the pound sterling which is to
be paid by the ratepayers. The rateable value of
the metropolis was at the present time, in round
number,, 12,000,0001. sterling. There was every
reason to believe, looking at the past and what
would certainly happen, that the area would in-
crease, and the amount of property over which the
Board would have the power of levying rates would
consequently also materially increase. But, taking
the value at 12,000,000/. ; and assuming that the
Board were required to expend 5,000,0001. sterling
the questionwas what would be the amount thrown
upon the ratepayer for carrying out those great
works wl.ioh Parliament had delegated to the
Board. Supposing the Board had no means of
getting the money except upon the security of the
rates ; supposing that no guarantee should be
given by the Government or Parliament to enable
the Board to raise the money, the probability was
that they would not be able to obtain it at less
than 5 per cent. interest. Now, if the. Board
raised 5,000,0001., payable in 50 years, with in-
terest at 5 per cent., it would require a rate
to be levied to the amount of 273,883/. per
annum. That sum distributed over 12,000,0001.

sterling would not require a rate of 50.,—
it being sd. and one farthing and 9.loths.
If the money were obtained at 4i per cent. it would
require a rate to be levied amounting to 253,0101.
which would -make the rate less than 51d. ; and if
the money were had at 4 per cent. the annual sum
required would be 232,7511., making the rate 4hd.
in the pound. Therefore, although this was a very
groat work, and would require a large sum to carry
it out, yet it would cost the ratepayers, on the
most unfavourable calculations, not more than
sd. in the pound. Ho would ask was that
such an enormous charge that they ought to be de-
terred from proceeding with the work on the best
and most comprehensive manner.
Mr. THWAITES said the amount certainly did not
sound very large, but it must be borne in mind
that this was in reference to one work only, and
would form only one part of their expenditure.
There were the expenses of the district boards and
of the local drainages to be added, and he was quite
sure he was addressing gentlemen sufficiently ac-
quainted with the monetary world to know that it
would be an impossibility for the thud to go into
the money-market and raise 5,000,000/. of money
without the aid of the Government.
Sir B. HALL—That is another question. lam not
speaking of the mode in which the money should
be raised ; I am only speaking of the amount of the
money required for carrying out this great work ;
and the next question is, whether you will refme to
carry the outfall down to Sea Reach for the
sake of saving a rate of 1/d. in the pound (for that
is the difference in cost between extending the out-
fall to Sea Reach, which every one admits to be the
best point for discharge), and stopping at B*, near
Erith Church, with all the risks and contingencies,
and certain opposition, which will attend any
attempt to form the outfall at this point ?
Mr. THWAITES—Am I to understand that in
your opinion the outfall ought to be at Sea Reach ?
Sir B. HALL—Yes.
Mr. THWAITES said it was impossible to doubt
thst Sea Reach was the best outfall, but then it
was said the metropolis ought to be charged with
it, while the Board was thoroughly convinced that
it was not. Was it the opinion of Sir Benjamin
that Parliament would not contribute towards the
expense
Sir B. HALL—Yes.
Mr. THWAITES—Then there ie an end ; and we
are to expend 1,500,000/. more money than is re-
quired by the wants of the metropolis.
Sir B. HALL said, in answer to a question, that
he was not prepared to say whether the Govern-
ment would afford its a'd by way of guarantee to
the Board in raising money on more easy terms
than it otherwise could do. It was a matter which
rested eatirely with the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. If the Metropolitan Board thought proper
to wait upon that gentleman he (Sir B Hall) would
be happy to attend any meeting and hear what the
Chancellor of the Exchequer might sayi on the sub-
ject. He was very glad that he had had this con-
ference. He hoped and believed it would lead to
beneficial results. The question was what course
they were now to pursue. The referees had sub-
mitted to him a plan. Ho was not wedded to that
plae. If he could be shown that there were falla-
cies in it, or any errors, he was sure that the
referees themselves would immediately correct
them. The only object they had in view was
t devise a final and comprehensive scheme
suitable to the purpess, and then to carry it
out. The best course, therefore, would be for the
Metropolitan Board t r appoint two members of
their Board assisting themselves with their own
engineer to meet the referees, and he was quite sure
they would enter into the whole matter in a good
spirit, and would he able to arrive at same conclu-
sion which Might ha satisfactory to all parties.
Mr. THWAITCS assenked to that proposal.
After thanking the Right hon. baronet, the de-
putation withdrew, after a conference which lasted
more than two hours.

One of the workmen who fell iu the ruins of the Entre-
pot at Antwerp was rescued alive at about mid-day on
Sunday, after being buried for four days ! He was fas-
tened up in a sort of cavity formed by p anka and beams,
and he existed on rice and sugar, of which fortunately a
quantity was mar b:ro. He had received no injary, out
wa3 much affected in mind by long-continuel ernotion.
uoi
It WAS reported that groans had been heard from aclA
the ruins, from which it would appear that Arwther man
ie still buried there alive.