The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-25 00:00:00

-provisions of that measure. He did not believe it. When
agitation on this subject was warmest he could not recol-
lect a single instance in which the factory operatives peti-
tioned for the limitation of their own hours of labour. They
never went beyond the protection of women and children,
who certainly stood in need of protection. (Hear, hear.)
Another argument brought forward was that the working
classes in a particular locality did not like boot-making ma-
chines, and had struck in consequence. Well, certainly it
was a mistake on their part to resist the introduction of new
machinery; but when one remembered how fiercely the
proctors had opposed an improvement in the law which af-
fected their interests, and how loudly they called for com-
pensation in 'consequence, hon. gentlemen would perhaps
have more consideration for the operatives who fellinto a
mistake of this sort. (Hear, hear.) But, in point of fact,
machine-breaking, rick-burning, and all such violence had
passed away like a cloud, and mechanics institutions had
spread abroad a much better spirit. (Hear.) The next argu-
ment advanced was, that though the working classes miqht
be wise, and honest, and loyal, still, whatever their qualifi-
cations wore, it was to be feared that all power would pass
into their hands. Now, he took that to be one of the
greatest chimeras possible. Working men were divided
among themselves, like every other class, and they would
no more act in opposition to these above them in the social
scale than the middle classes had done. They would follow
various sets of leaders ; they would have in view various
objects • and surely the history of the last twenty-five years
showed a class might be intrusted with the influence
which the franchise conferred without making war upon
other classes, or seeking to destroy existing institutions.
(Hear, hear.) In listening to the able and eloquent speech
in which the bill had been introduced, and the very elo
quent speech delivered by the Colonial Secretary in its sup-
port, he could not help calling to mind that nearly thirty
years ago he had the honour of being introduced to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer and the right hon. baronet.
They met him with a unity of feeling, being among those
who went furthest in a conviction of the necessity of altering
the old exclusive Tory system which prevailed before 1832.
A great change had since come over both right hon. gentle-
men. He did not twit them on that score ; he made no
accusation ; he freely conceded that they might both have
had clear and strong reasons for their change of opinion.
He did not say of them what Goldsmith said of Burke—
" Who, born for the universe narrowed his mind,
And to party gave up what was meant for mankind."
But he would say to these right hon. gentlemen, " Stand as
fairly acquitted as you may of the change in yourselves, but
make allowance for the unchangedworking classes." (Hear.)

deavoured to show that the effect of the bill as it now
stands will be to render counties more exclusive, and to
hand over the smell boroughs to rottenness and complete
dependence ; for the only independence they could possess
must rest upon the opinions and the wishes of non-resident
erectors. (Cheers.) Now, lam not geirig to discuss this
question at all different from that which has hitherto marked
the tone of this debate; but I would ask the house whence
comes it that We are here to-night discussing the ques-
tion of Reform at all There are plenty of other things
for us to do. (Hear, hear.) Why, then, is this question
thrast upon us by Minister after. Minister ? Some per-
sons say that the noble lord the member for London is
entirely in fault. (Cheers and laughter.) Hon. gentlemen
may say whatever they like, but such an assertion ye that
goes but a very little way indeed. The noble lord has no
particular desire, any more than I have, to disturb this great
question. (Cries of " Oh, oh I" from the Ministerial side of
the house.) Its settlement, however, has become a necessity,
and will continue to be a necessity to the existence of every
Government until it is set at rest m a manner that will be
satisfactory:to the country. (Cheers.) Do hon. gentlemen
by their cheers mean to show us that they do not want
reform? (Hear, hear.) The Government have not touched
this question simply in obedience to the commands of their
followers, although they have brought in this hill in accord-
ance with their prejudices and fears. (Hear, hear.) The
farmers do not ask you for reform, although there are, no
doubt, some respects in which they desire it. The farm
labourer does not press it upon your attention. No, the
demand for reform comes from all your towns and cities ;
nor is the cry heard from the mouths of the unenfranchised
alone, but, in point of fact, from the great majority of the
electors themselves. (Cheers.) It is not an uncommon
thing to hear it asserted—as several hon. members have
asserted in this house—that the electors of this country do
not care for reform. (Hear, hear, from the Ministerial side
of the house.) Those hon. gentlemen who cry " Hear,
hear? do not know quite so much as I do about the senti-
ments of people residing in towns. (Cheers.) When the
electoral power was in the hands of a few corrupt corpora-
tions the case may have been otherwise, for they turned
their electoral privileges into a means of annual profit, and
did not like to share them with their fellow-townsmen.
(Hear.) But I never heard it made a charge against elec-
tors in boroughs, at the present day, that they were anxious
to retain the franchise for fear of admitting others of their
fellow countrymen to be sharers, or rivals, or participators
with them in the advantages which it comprises. (Hear.)
Now the Government, it seems, do not think it necessary to
make any change in the borough franchise. We all know
that the line which was drawn in 1832 was drawn in direct
and almost absolute exclusion of all that class of persons
who live by wages. (Hear, hear.) Has it been a source of
satisfaction to them ? Have there not, upon the contrary,
been constant protests against it ? Have we not seen and
heard—when there was great depression in trade and a
great scarcity of food, which now happily is not the case—
more constant protests aggravated into something like in-
cipient insurrection ? (Hear, hear.) That such has been
the case is not to be denied. Well, and what is it that you
now do ? Twenty-seven years after the passing of the
great Reform Bill, and after a whole generation has passed
away, you propose to continue, it may be for 27 years
longer, that exclusion against which the great body of the
unenfranchised population of the country have been lifting
up their voices ever since 1832. (Cheers.) Now, what is
it that her Majesty's Ministers say to us in introducing this
measure ? What will this house in effect say if it passes
into a law in its present shape ? You proclaim, in a voice
which will reach the furthest corner of the land, that will
enter not only into the ear but into the heart of the inhabi-
tants of every home of the class of which I am speaking in
England—that we have something or another in our Legis-
lature which they cannot comprehend and must not inter-
meddle with. (Cheers.) You will in effect say to them,
" We do not trust you, you are as ignorant, as dangerous,
as little to be relied upon now as you were 27 years ago."
(Cheers.) And what will be the result ? They will come
to the conclusion that upon the same principle upon which
you now act you will act for the next 27 years, using pre-
cisely the same arguments and pursuing the same course.
(Cheers.) And now let me pause for one moment to ask
what sort of a generation that has been which is just pass..
ing, or has passed, away ? My answer is, such a one as
was never known before. You have had under its auspices
a longer period of peace than you ever previously enjoyed.
The humbler classes have had a larger proportion of the
comforts and necessaries of life than at a preceding period.
They have improved at a rate of which your grandfathers
scarcely dared to dream. (Hear, hear.) You have
a free press—though there may be something still'
to be done in order that it may become completely unfet-
tered—a subject to which the right hon. gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer will be good enough to turn
his attention when he gets out of .the little difficulty in
Which he is now placed. (Cheers and laughter.) You have
not only the ordinary number of public Journals, but you
hare 300 newspapers published at the rice of Id., circu-
lating all over the country. (Hear, hear. Well, all this has
been accomplished, yet you propose to exclude the members
of that class to whom you are indebted for much of your
prosperitys--with the exception of the trifling numbers whom
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in his small mercy, pro-
poses to admit under the savings'-bank clause—(cheers)---
from the exercise of the franchise. I saw a statement the
other day, to the effect that the operation of such a clause ap-
plied to Scotland would be to give Edinburgh about 300,
and all Scotland not more than 600 additional voters. The
borough electors are 50,000, and this extraordinary exten-
sion of the franchise will admit 2k per cent. increase, and
that is all the small dole which the Chancellor of the
Exchequer and his friends offer to the great body of the
working classes of that country. (Hear, hear.) Scotland is
a frugal country; its people are industrious and saving to a
degree which 18 hardly comprehended here, and yet this
boon will only enfranchise some 1,200 pereotts there. lam
prepared to assert that this is not a Bill of Reform at all.
(Hear, hear.) It is, in point of fact, that which, in elec-
tioneering phrase, is considered a complete case of per-
sonation. (Lauglgter.) It is not the genius of liberty
that comes before us in the shape of a bill, but it is some-
thing which the people of this country had hoped they
had seen and heard of for the last time in our his-
tory. I think if it were to pass it would be held by
the whole population of the country to be nothing better
than a complete delusion, disappointing every class
and tending to create discontent, which this house weld(
have great difficulty hereafter in allaying. Now,
there is one point which has been dwelt upon by the
right honourable gentleman opposite and others, in
which I do not feel the same extraordinary interest which
some members appear to feel, and that is as to the uniformity
of franchise. Ido not say that it is necessary, I don't say
that there is any advantage in it, but I do not see the great
disadvantages which have been ascribed to it. (Hear, hear.)
It has been represented to me as a very democratic proceed-
ing. lam not myself very democratic—(loud laughter)—
therefore I can assure the house the scheme has not on that
account sny charms for me. I think it would have been just
as well rof to have had thisuniformity, but I do not see any
harm there is in it. Thereis only one reason why we should
complain of it, and that is that it would not be so easy to
give a move to the whole franchise hereafter as if the county
franchise were different from that of the boroughs. (Hear,
hear.) But I can assure hon. members that if they tie the
two together, there is no power in this house to keep the
borough franchise at £lO, and unless they give up the idea
of uniformity the county franchise must come down with
the boroughs. However, that is a matter for hon. gentlemen
opposite to consider, and no doubt it has been considered by
her Majesty's Government. (Hear, hear.) But if I have
no alarm about that, there is one thing that I have some
alarm about, and that is the manner in which some mem-
bers of the house seem disposed to treat this question. I re-
fer particularly to my hon. friend near me (Mr. Horsman),
the right hon. gentleman the member for Wilts (Mr. S. Her-
bert), and the right hon. gentleman the member for Coven-
try (Mr. Ellice), who has not spoken in thisdebate, but who
wrote a letter to his constituents upon the subject. The
right hon. gentleman is an extraordinary instance of what I
may call hallucination. (Laughter.) He represents the
greatest number of working men to be found in any con-
stituency—out of a population of 40,000 there are 6,000
electors, which is a far larger number than I thought
of proposing to the house. My right hon. friend says
there is no constituency that he knows which equals
his in independence, in intelligence, in virtue. ' 'Well,
sir, I can't admit all that. I know something of Co-
ventry —my father was born there, but I never
heard, nor ever observed that the people of that
town were upon the whole very superior. I believe they
are in no degree inferior to the same classes in other manu-
facturing towns. My right hon. friend says he is in favour
of household suffrage, but as the people are not ready for
that he will do nothing—he will have household suffrage
or nothing; which, after all, is very much like what was
called the Charter. lam alarmed that the right hon. gen-
tleman, like the members for Wilts and Devonport, should,
in the face of a hundred meetings held spontaneously within
the last month, delude himself with the idea that nobody,
beyond the 650 gentlemen in this house, cares anything
about this question, and that we may comfortably get rid
of it in some way here, by digging a hole in the floor of the
house and burying it, as nobody cares about it. The right
hon. gentleman the member for Cambridge T.Tniversity (Mr.
Walpole) has the same notion. He thinks it must be
settled this session—that it can be—that it is necessary it
should be settled. Why ? For this reason, that you know
that the form in which you propose to settle it will not be
satisfactory to'the people. (Hear, hear.) You know well
—I think the right hon. gentleman has confessed it, as some
have—that during the autumn you may have meetings—
during the winter you may have agitation. Well, what would
this country have been without meetings, without agitation?
We boast that we have abolished our ancient and bar-
barous mode of making extensive revolutions and changes in
our political system, but if you have done with war and
bloodshed for these purposes 'do not imagine that those
changes which become necessary from time to time can be
carried out and accomplished without the healthy operation
in some cases perhaps approaching to a rude but still a re-
freshing and strengthening agitatiip. (Laughter and
cheers.) Some gentlemen opposite Atm to wish to forget
some things had happened 15 years ago. Then their organi-
zation was complete. They had farmers' meetings every-
where. (Hear.) And, not content with farmers meetings,
they had an office in Old Bond-street and a publication
committee, and they had every description of instrument for
an irritating and exasperating agitation which they could
possibly devise. (Hear, hear.) I do not imagine for a
moment that this question can be settled in the present
temper of the house satisfactorily to • the people. Are you
quite sure that there is nothing in what is going on out of
doors ? I met a right hon.. gentleman the other day near
the house, and he said to me as a 'great secret, " You know,
of course, that nobody does care about reform ?" Well, he
did not get me to agree with him upon that point. (A
liaugh.)
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almost
every meeting that was held by the Anti-Corn Law League
during the agitation of the repeal of the corn-laws. The
populations you are about to disappoint and defy, what
have they done ? They have conquered everything they
have grappled with hitherto. I do not . speak of distant
realms conquered under your banners, but of arts and manu-
factures and all that tends to wealth and civilization, Do
you think that this population will not also conquer a
much larger share of their political rights than in your pre-
sent mood you appear disposed to'give them ? There was a
speech made by the hon. member for Dorset, and I agree
with those who have'expressed regret that that gentleman
did not speak more fi-squently—(hear, hear)—but, in the
speech the hon. gentleman said, " I am not afraid of the
people of this country." (Hear.) And ho gave a very
powerful, and eloquent, and just rebuke to a gentleman
who, in a thoughtless moment, cheered in a sneering man-
ner his observation. I tell the house frankly that they do
not well understand the great populations of this country,
especially of the manufacturing towns. I, have seen great
mistakes made. I remember in 1848 when the right hon.
gentleman above mo (Sir G. Grey) 'was Home Secretary,
there was a great Panic on the 10th of April—or rather be-
fore the 10th of April, for by that day the panic was laughed
at. Well, what was done. I don't know what was done
at the Bank, but I am told that at theßritish sluseum that
institutions was actually garrisoned. There were no Minie
rifles nor Armstrong guns, perhaps, but there were 100 or
200 tons of paving stones, or boulders, taken up to the roof
of the Museum. Not only was it garrisoned but, very
properly, the commissariat was attended to and provisions
for three days laid in, and I am told the steps leading to
the rooms where the medals and most precious articles were

placed were cut away. The British Museum was not as-
saulted, but the garrison, I believe, managed to consume
the three days' provisions before Sunday. (Laughter.) Well,
now come to •a later time—the period of the Exhibition in
Hyde-park in 1851. There was then alive a man who stood
pre-eminent in this country, the Duke of Wellington. He was
terrified—a manwh o was supposed never tohave been alarmed
—but he was alarmed at the people of his own country. He
urged upon the Government, who of course agreed with him,
to draw near to the metropolis a large number of troops in
case of emergency. Why, if half-a-dozen foreigners had at-
tempted to get up an insurrection in London, they would
have been put into the reservoirs in Trafalgar-square by the
people themselves, and yet it was considered necessary to
bring these troops near to London, to be ready in case of
disturbance. I remember the noble lord the member for
Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) gave us an account of what some
foreigner told him as to the conduct and deportment of the
masses of the people. The noble lord knows a good deal of
the character of the people, and he said, " All this order
is the result of a sense among the people that they have a
Government which, upon the whole, does not intend to
oppress them, that they are a people good in themselves,
intelligent and orderly, and that a policeman among them
is an authority of high dignity, whom they at once obey."
The remark is creditable to the noble lord's good taste, and
is perfectly just to the people of this country. Now, I ask
hon. gentlemen opposite why are they so afraid of the
people ? The manufacturing, the employing class, does not
fear them. At the Bradford meeting were present, when I
moved the resolution, Mr. Titus Salt and Mr. Crossley, the
brother of the member for Halifax. Those gentlemen con-
duct vast manufacturing and commercial undertakings.
There are no men more prosperous, and none
have more confidence in the people. (Hear, hear.)
Those two gentlemen agreed cordially with every proposi-
tion I made as to an extension of the suffrage. The meet-
ings at Rochdale, Bury, Blackburn, and Bolton were attended
by gentlemen equally eminent ; at the meeting at Bolton
there were four gentlemen who employ not less than 6,000
or 7,000 people, and who own property of not less than a
million sterling; one of those gentlemen thought my pro-
posal as to the suffrage was not sufficiently extensive.
(Hear, hear.) Why is it they do not regard the people with
the same fears you do ? They must know what they are
about; they know that any convulsion or disturbance in
society would touch them first. Your landed estates are
much more permanent as property than our manufactories.
Any disturbance or violent action of a' democratic nature
would be more dangerous to us than to you. (Hear, hear.)
Yet a large proportion of the employers of labour favour a
large extension of the suffrage, and believe it would prove
for the safety of their property; for the working men, in
thinking over this question, feel they are distrusted, that
they are marked as inferiors, that they are a sort of pariahs.
In that position, should there be an opportunity, great dis-
content and turbulence might arise ; but if you give them a
vote they will have more self-respect, more elevation of
mind. I will read an extract from a letter I have received
from a working man—lbelieve a stonemason—on the ques-
tion whether or not working men have any interest in the
country. He says :
" But some say that we, as working men, have no stake
and no interest in the country. 1 hardly know whatis meant
by these assertions ; but if to make sacrifices for the good
of our country be any proof of an interest I believe the
working classes can clearly show greater sacrifices, and
fairly claim to have greater stake and interest both in the
country and in good government. I had three uncles who
all lost their lives fighting for their country ; I had three
brothers, two of whom served under Lord Wellington
throughout the Peninsular campaign ; and my third, and •
youngest brother lost his life in the Indian war, and now
lies buried at Kurnaul. I had two nephews, one of Whom
died of the cholera at Varna, and the other, after serving
throughout the Crimean war, was raised from the ranks,'
and is now a lieutenant. No doubt but very many working
men could tell of even greater sacrifices and similar tales of
their families, except the last. To these statements I would
only add, that if the working classes have no stake and no
interest in their country, they must be wonderful lovers of
their country for nothing."
Now, there is only one other point to which I will allude ;
it was touched upon by the Solicitor-General when he re-
ferred to the state of Europe ; he warned the house to be-
ware what it was about to do in regard to this question. I
draw quite a different lesson—a different conclusion from
what he said of the state of Europe. In 1830 there was also
a state of Europe and France that was net satisfactory, and
it had great effect on the legislation of this house, in the
course of the two succeeding years, on the'question of re-
form. In 1848 the state of Europe was again unsatisfactory,
and was it not a subject of congratulation that two
years before the corn laws had been abolished, and one
great cause of discontent removed ? (Cheers.) I assure you
that resistance is not always conservative. (Cheers) I pro-
fess to be, in intention, as conservative as you. I believe
infinitely more so, if you look forward 20 or 30 years into
the future. Was not free trade conservative ? (Cheers.)
And yet you resisted it to the last. I recollect when the
Chancellor of the Exchequer used to get up, and, with
dishevelled hair, tell us of the cruelty practised on the
ruined and betrayed agriculturist. (Cheers and laughter.)
I recollect he addressed us on the condition of the opera-
tives two or three years afterwards ; and since that time
his condition has gone on improving rapidly. Is not pro-
sperity conservative ? Is not peace conservative ? (Hear,
hear.) Any energies I possess I have devoted to their ad-
vance ; I have endeavoured to stand on the rules of political
economy, and to be guided by the higher rules of true
morality ; and when advocating a measure of reform larger
than some aro prepared to grant, I appear in that character,
for I believe a substantial measure of reform would elevate
and strengthen the character of our population; that, in
the language of the beautiful prayer read here every day, it
would tend " to knit together the hearts of all persons and
estates within this realm." (Cheers.) I believe it would
add to the authority of the decisions of Parliament; and I
feel satisfied it would confer a lustre time could never dim
on that benignant reign under-which we have the happiness
to live. (Cheers.)
On the motion of Sir S. NORTHCOTE, the debate was
then adjourned.
The Nottingham Charities Bill passed through com-
mittee.
The house adjourned at 10 minutes to one o'clock.
.s,