The Sun.
London, England, 1857-03-13 00:00:00

CHINA.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH, in moving for the
production of papers relative to the manner in which
the Chinese treaty had been carried out, said it appeared
to him that when we were extremely strict with the
Chinese Government as to the execution on their part of
the stipulations of the treaty, it behoved us to look to
our own observance of the treaty also, for the purpose of
ascertaining whether we had been strictly correct in the
performance of the obligations which the treaty imposed
on us. Three of those obligations were entered into
with the view of preventing iricit trade. The 12th
article stated that " a fair and regular tariff of duties
and other dues having now been established, it is to be
hoped that the system of smuggling which has hereto-
fore been carried on between English and Chinese
merchants—in many cases with the open connivance
and collusion of the Chinese Custom-house officers—will
entirely cease." If that tariff was a fair one it was but
reasonable to expect that smuggling would cease, for
the only way of putting down smuggling was by esta-
blishing a reasonable scale of duties ; but the cave was
different with regard to articles which remained under
prohibition. The article went on to say, " The British
plenipotentiary will also instruct the different consul+ to
strictly watch over and carefully scrutinise the conduct of
all persons, being British subjects trading under his
superintendence. On any positive instance of smug-
gling transactions timing to the consul's knowledge, he
will instantly apprise the Chinese authorities of the
fact." Now, it was desirable to ascertain whether the
consuls had, in point of fact, carefully scrutinised the
conduct of persons trading under their superintendence,
and whether the Chinese authorities had been ap-
prised of any positive instance of smuggling in the
manner specified. The 14th article was couched in
these terms :—" An English officer will be appointed
at Hong Kong, one part of whose duty will be to
examine the registers and passes of all Chinese vessels
that may repair to that port to buy or sell goods ;
and should such officer at any time find that any Chi-
nese merchant vessel has not a pass, or register, from
one of the five ports, she is to be considered as an un-
authorised or smuggling vessel, and it is not to be :Towed
to trade, whilst a report of the circumstance is to be
made to the Chinese authorities. By this arrangemet, it
is to be hoped that piracy and illegal traffic will he effec-
tually prevented." The object of that article was to pre-
vent piracy, and it was desirable to ascertain whether we
had performed the obligations cast upon us by that arti-
cle. By the 16th article "it is agreed that the Custom-
house officers at the five ports shall teaks a monthly re-
turn to Canton of the passes granted to vessels proceed-
ing to Hong Kong, together with the nature of their
cargoes, and a copy of these returns will be embodied in
one return, and communicated once a month to the pro-
per English officer at Hong Kong. The said English offi-
cer will, on his part, make a similar return or communi-
cation to the Chinese authorities at Canter), showing the
names of Chinese vessels arrived at Hong Kong, or de-
parted from that port, with the nature of their cargoes ;
ordern
cland clandestine
byan hilelseegaalrrtarnadg
and the Canton author.ities will apprise the Custom-
e-
all
l
rs
officers averted.
stationed I t
ta st
hnee cflevse-
hmoeuastess
and at the
precautions,fiveports
neces-
sary to ascertain whether
ports under the cover of
ises'thineayb
fth t -
t Hong Kong, in pursuance o apr
had made the return mentioned in the article to the
proper officer a
t ined in the report of the
referred to to a statement con a.
who, in speaking of that
vision of the treaty. A. noble lord, the other evening, had
,übt desirable that the pri-
♦ilege said, " While it
fla
, shall rut be conceded
vilege of hoi,ting the British flag► nial treasurer to Sir J. B.owrllll,
shall appreciate the advan
settled under it in the colony
hstantial benefits it con-
without proper securities, it is desirable dint Chinamen
tage of their position, in the substantial
this country, it that very
Permanently beneficial to
fers." The colonial treasurer said, "If anything will be
lands, since it hold
crown lessees entitled to
Chinese settlers or cro
eye-
tem of eranting colonial registers, particu'arly to respect-
ablethe prevent' has tended to increase the coasting trade
for the
for
Ice*" NOW, the g'' e and passes were granted
re,,it.rs
manufactures of India—such as cotton, opium,
have ion of illicit trade,
t of illicit
been used fur the encouragernen
trade iu o the great
they
Plum. (Hear, hear.) Op lUal was
appeared to
article of trade,but
'Without opium, the export trade from
this country and th d d of thia country would
o epen encieS

not have been increased by the alteration in the law. He
thought it desirable that returns should be laid on the
tat.le showing what had been done in the way of earry-
ing out the articles to which he had referred, and that it
would be sufficient to limit them to what had occurred
' during the last five years. As their lordships would not
have many more opportunities of addressing the house
before the dissolution of Parliament, he wished to take
the opportunity of making a few remarks on our present
position with regard to China, and particularly with re-
gard to the expedition which the Government were
about to send to that country. As far as he could gather
t from the public sources of information the expedition
was to consist of several heavy vessels of war, four re-
giments of infantry, and four batteries of artillery.
t When the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs
received the accounts of the destruction of the forts, of
. the shelling of Canton, and of the destruction of public
and private junks, he was in possession of facts which
must have satisfied his mind that there existed a state of
war between this country and the authorities and people
of Canton. He was also aware that Sir J. Bowring had
ad vanc-d claims under the supplementarytreaty of 1843,
to which the strange:t resistance would be offered by
the Chinese authorities at Canton, and that Sir John
Bowring had not any means at his disposal to compel
the Chinese authorities to concede these points. This
was the commencement of a long and serious contest,
and the intentions of the Government ought to have been
communicated to India by the mail of the 10th Jan. in-
stead of the mail of the 10th March, in order that due
preparations might be made for providing a native force
to support the troops about to be sent fr irri this coun-
try. If such orders had been sent out to India on the 10th
Jan , it would have been possible, with very great exer-
tion, to have placed a proper force at Singapore by the
second week in April. It the orders were only sent out
in March, he regretted to inform the Government that
they would be of little or no avail. At the time of the ar-
rival of these orders in India there would be no vessels
at Madras, and very few indeed at Calcutta, and there
would be no sufficient means of conveying large bodies of
troops, for not less than 20,000 tons of shipping would
be requisite for the purpoAt. But even supposing there
should be a sufficient supply of ships, they woull meet
the monsoon in the Bay of Bengal, and on arriving at
their destination would be in a shattered and disordered
condition. Now let their lordships consider the injury
which would be caused by this delay to British interests,
the danger to which the British population, British pro-
perty, and the British character of Hong Kong would be
exposed in the midst of a dense Chinese population, and
the encouragement which would be given to the Chinese
by the delay which had taken place in forwarding the
boasted power of England, on which we were apt to rely.
Tben, again, our operations would commence at the most
unhealthy season of the year—that season which had
been so fatal to our army in the previous war. He did
not know whether the newspapers which were supposed
to speak with the authority of the Government were to
be relied upon, but it appeared from them that more
troops were to be placed on board the vessels than they
were qualified to carry, considering the character and the
length of the voyage. He knew from experience the con-
sequences of any error in that respect, for when a regi-
ment landed after being detained long at sea in a crowded
vessel, it was not in an efficient condition for service.
The vessels destined for the Chinese seas would have to
pass the Cape in the middle of wintr, and would be ex-
posed to all the difficulties of the ocean. Now, with a
view to the preservation of the health of the troops, he
wished to mae a few suggestions to the noble lord the
Secretary for War. The first was, that instead of supply-
ing the ships with single . awnings, which would not
protect the men from either the sun or the rain, they
should be furnished with double awnings, extending
from stem to stern, which would not only protect the
troops, but give them the opportunity of collect-
ing the rain which might fall. It was also necessary to
procure a better ventilation between decks, and every
means which science could suggest ought to be applied
to provide a complete ventilation. Again, in the state of
feeling which now existed in Caine, it would be idle to
expect a supply of fresh meat from more than a few of
the islands, and without such supply the health of the
troops might be materia ly affected. He therefore
strongly recommended that every means should be taken
not merely for providing, but for testing the quality of
the preserved meats intended for the use of the troops.
At the present time no dependence could be placed upon
India for a supply of salt meat, and that article must be
sent from this country. He looked with the greatest dis-
may at the probable result of the operations of European
troops in China without the assistance of an adequate
force of native troops, because in that climate certain
duties could be performed only by native troops. Then,
in what description of vessels were the troops to be sent?
It might be quite right to send troops to the Crimea in
a particular class of vessels, because they could be con-
veyed there in about a fortnight ; but if the troops were
to be sent to Hong Kong in such vessels, they could
not be removed in them to any other port. It was im-
possible that large vessels could be of the smallest use,
for not one of them could anchor sufficiently near to the
land, and nothing could be so contrary to reason as to
send troops in large ships if there were no small ships to
which they could be transferred. If orders for the native
troops bad been sent out in January, they would have
been conveyed in vessels of a small draught of water,
and towed by small steamers that might have been useful
in carrying on warlike operations; but if such orders had
not been sent out there would not be a sufficient supply
of vessels to carry the troops up the rivers of China. Ile
trusted the noble lord would read some of the despatches
written during the last war, which would supply him
with a good dea' of useful information. The despatches
from thence were written, if not from the dictation,
at least with the approbation of the Duke of Welling-
ton and Sir G. Ceokburn. They would suggest the in-
stant sending out of a proper proportion of followers for
each regiment—not less than from 300 to 400 being abso-
lutely necessary. He would venture also to throw out
another suggestion, and that was that every precaution
should be taken against allowing fire-ships to approach
the ships sent out with mope. In the year 1811 that
was a subject of the greatest anxiety, and every direc-
tion was given which experience could suggest to avert
such a danger; and when he read, as he had done recently,
of a fire-ship passing under the very bow of one of her
Majesty's ships, he must say that be thought the allow-
ance of such an occurrence was not at all creditable to
the authorities in command. One word with respect to
the manner in which the war had been carried on. A
noble lord opposite had defended the destruction of the
suburbs of Canton. No w in looking over the accounts ef
the previous year, he had read with great satisfaction a
despatch from Lord Palmerston, who was at that time
Foreign Secretary, in which he distinctly required those
who bad the conduct of the war in no case to burn or
destroy a town, observing that it was a war against the
Government, and not against the people. Reports were
in circulation as to the probability of taking the course
pursued in 1842, but we were not now at war with the
Emperor of China, but with the people of Canton and
Commissioner Yeh, and our operations ought to be con•
fined to Canton. He had heard with regret that it was
the intention of Government to send out some important
personage as plenipotentiary, with some person on the
part of France, with a French naval force, for the pur-
pose of erecting from the Chinese some concessions which
we had no right to demand. He objected to such a course
of proceeding, not only because it would be unworthy of
this country to take advantage of the opportunity of
exacting from the Chinese Emperor that which we had
no right to do, but because be deprecated any conjoint
operations, and any conjoint proposals. Whatever the
Government might determine upon doing he trusted they
would act by themselves—that they would exact only
those terms to which England was entitled, and having
obtained those terms, would then retire from the contest.
The noble earl concluded by moving for the production
of the papers to which he had alluded.

Lord PANMURE said it was impossible to conceal
the fact that operations in China at this season of the
year were matters which must attract the serious atten-
tion of the Government. But the state of affairs in China
was such that not only the honour of this country, but
the safety of Bi itish property and the support of British
trade demanded that that state of affairs should be
brought to as speedy a conclusion as possible, and he had
no hesitation in saying that the policy of the Government
would be, to use every endeavour to bring matters to a
satisfactory conclusion in a peaceable manner, only ap-
pealing to force in the last resort. (Hear.) It was quite
true that it was the intention of the Government to send
out an officer of high character and position to negotiate
with the Emperor of China for a renewal of the treaties
already in existence, but he regretted to say never duly
observed. It would not be the object of the Government
to extort from China, even if we had a force there suffi-
cient to do so, any terms which were not just and rea-
sonable, and such as the justice of the people of this
country woul I approve. But if the Chinese should refuse
to grant those just and reasonable demands, it was not
only the opinion of the Government, but he believed it
was the opinion of the country at large, that the honour
and safety and character of the British nation in that
great empire demanded that we should not stop short of
obtaining them. The question had been considered by
the Government whether the necessary forces should be
sent from India or directly from this country. Under all
the circumstances it had been thought more advisable
they should be sent from this country; as, in the first
place, thwhich should always he considered, it would
boa matter of economy if our operations were conducted
from this country. The reason was, there were 4 regiments
under orders for relieving and reinforcing the troops in In-
dia ; they had been completed to their Indian strength,
and were ready to sail for theirdestination; and by sending
them to China, if the state of affairs there improved, they
could be moved on to India, and the expense of their
transport would, as it al ways did, fall on the East India
Company, however, if they were detained in China, the
expense of transport would be borne by the mother-
country. With regard to another subject referred to by
the noble earl ho had the satisfaction of informing him
that the transports appointed tr, convey the troops had
been so measured that they would not take more troops
than they could well accommodate in a voyage of such
length, and the vessels would not only take the troops
there, but they would be their barracks while they were
there, so that her Majesty's troops would not be under
the necessity of encamping on shore, or be exposed tothe
diseases which abound in that country. Long before the
cal. and store departments would have made every pre-
troops could arrive the heads of the commissariat, medi-
them with supplies, and orders
paratiou for fu.rn6hing

bad been given to obtain supplies of fresh meat, which
would be so necessary to the troops in that country and
during the hot season. Orders bad else been given f
the laying in of a quantity of salt meal-, preservedmeats,
vegetables, biscuite, and everything that was necessary
for the maintenance of the troops. With reference to
another portion of the
-noble earl's observations, be would
say that no movement had been made against the friendly
ports of China, and he hoped that there would never be
occasion for us to be in a sate of warfare with them.
The whsle quarrel was with the Cantonese, and no par-
ties could have been more anxious to keep up friendly
relations with us than the inhabitants of the four other
porta, who had been always twitted by the Cantonese
with their readiness to admit the barbarians to inter-
course with them. As regarded the mode of carrying
on hostilities, what he said on a former occasion on the
subject of firing the suburbs of Canton be would repeat.
He was certain that Admiral Seymour would not
have resorted to such a proceeding as the destruction
of the suburbs if he had not found it necessary for the
defence of the position he occupied and the safety of
his fleet. He still believed that Admiral Seymour wool I
do nothing but what the necessities of the cage required.
With reference to the conduct of operations at Canton,
he was sure their lordships wool,' see at once that to fix
on any decided plan of operations against that city, when
the opera ions were entrusted to an officer in whom the
Government had the highest confidence, would be pre-
mature, and, as he (Ldrd Panmure) thought, 'a work of
supererogation. No doubt, when the commissioner who
was to be sent out arrived, and- had made a survey of
the whole state of things, he would not fail to act, in the
first instance, in such a way as to lead to the securing of
peace by means of negotiations • but failing in that, he
would endeavour to bring the - Cantonese to reasen by
such means as would cause the least bloodshed, while at
the same time they were made to feel in every way the
full weight of our power. But to lay down any fixed
plan beforehand would, he thought, be essentially wrong.
All that he (Lord Panmure) could do was this—to make
the force sent out in every way effective, to use every
effort to keep the health of the troops up to the highest
standard, and to secure supplies not only for the main-
tenance of the troops, but to see that in everything con-
nected with their restoration to health and the preven-
tion of diseases peculiar to the place was provided for by
the precautions of the medical officers. With regard to
what the noble earl had said on the subject of awnings,
the dress of the troops, and their protection from the sun,
he could state that every requisite order had been given
on that subject. Mora than this could not be done, and
be trusted that in all the exigencies to which it would be
exposed, an Almighty Power would watch over the army
which bad been sent out for a purpose which he (Lord
Panmure) would maintain was only a necessity.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGLI—I am afraid that it
is as I said, and that it is intended to conduit those ope-
rations without the native troops of India. If so, you
will lose half your force, and you will fail.
Lord PANMURE said that at present it was their
intention to carry on operations without the assistance
of a native force. When a force was composed of troops
from the two armies in that climate some inconvenience
was found to arise from it. In fact the troops were like
the two buckets of a well ; when the heats prevailed the
British troops failed, and the moment.the cold weather
set in the native troops were useless ; and as it was his
opinion that if the position in the Canton river could be
maintained no operations should take place on shore till
the col I season set in ; in that case the native troops
would fail. There was one sujsct to which the noble
earl had adverted which he hat not noticed, and that
was with regard to the troops being sent cut in large
vessels like the Himaltya, which could not go up the
river. The troops must be sent out in vessels of that
size because they were intended to be their barracks ;
but a number of smaller vessels were on the spot, and
15 or 16 small gunboats were about to be sent out, be-
sides which a number of the small vessels of the Country
had been taken up, which would be towed by small
steamers and which could convey the troops to any point
of action at which they might be required. As to the
sending out of reinforcements being two months too late,
he had to say that as soon as it was found that troops
were required at Hong Kong a regiment was stint from
the Mauritns.
Earl GREY said that his noble friend stated 'that as
soon as the necessity for an additional force was, known
it was sent to China. As far as he (Earl Grey) knew
no order for the sending of a force from this country bad
been given till after the accounts which were received
by the last mail a fortnight, ago.
Lord PANM.IIRE—A. regiment sailed a month ago.
Earl GREY—A regiment may have sailed a month
ago from some part of the East, but no force from this
country was ordered until late in last month. Since
then a noble earl, a gallant admiral, had asked for the
despatches which had been received from China, but
none bad been produced. He (Lord Grey) wished to
know if such serious intelligence had been received by
the last mail, of which the public was not appyised, as
to have led the Government to send out alarge Force.
The Earl of CLARENDON said that there' was no
objection to produce the despatches in question.' It was
by those despatches that the Government first heard
that the admiral bad thought it necessary to withdraw
from the position he had previously held in the, Canton
river • that was the first intimation they had, ,that he
thought tbat position could not be maintained with the
force at his command, and also that the threatening state
of things at Hong Bong required that a part of his force
should be sent there. That was the first intimation they
had that the admiral could not maintain the position
which early in January he had been ordered to main-
tain. There was nothing in the despatches beyond what
he had stated a few nights ago, and there was no objec-
tion to their being laid on the table. He would take
this opportunity of replying to some of the observations
of the noble lord on the subject of the returns which be
had asked for. He bad made inquiry at the Oolonial-
office, and he found that there were no returns for this
country with reference to the registers and papers which
twreearetyrequ
had been beeeo the fulfilment
nn
etrietlyearriedof thnute
in the eydifflef the
ren
t
Chinese ports whatever was done in that respect would be
done by the harbour-masters there, and such proceedings
would not be the subject of returns to this country. As
the notices required to be given with regard to smug-
gling transactions, he had heard, on inquiry, that no
correspondence or record relating to the understanding
which was come to on that point between the Chinese
commissioner and the British plenipotentiary bad ever
been sent home ; and there was no means of know-
ing how that article stipulating that means should be
taken to guard against and to give notice of smug-
gling transactions came to be inserted in the treaty.
Whatever was the reason it gave the Chinese authorities
power to prevent smuggling at any of the five ports, and
they might have prevented vessels found to be engaged in
smuggling from any further trading. There were two
or three despatches which recorded that notices had been
given to the Chinese authorities under the treaty ; but
be was informed that in 1851, instructions were sent net
to Sir G. Bonham, with reference to the numerous no-
tices which the British plenipotentiaries and consuls had
sent to the Chinese authorities, to which no regard had
been paid, and it was stated that, there could be no doubt
that smuggling was carried on by the connivance of the
Chinese authorities. There was no such stipulation es
this in the treaties entered into between China and
France and the United States, and therefore in that re-
spect the British subjects were in a worse position than
those of France, or citizens of the United States. Those
notices were duly given, and it was clear that smuggling
was conni' IA at by the Chinese authorities ; and accord.
ingly his noble friend, Who was tlfen Secretary of Foreign
Affairs, wrote a long despatch to our plenipotentiary re-
viewing all that had been done, referring to the non- '
observance of the treaty and the neglect of the collection
of their own revenue by the Chinese, and he said that if
the Chinese did not choose to o eoperate with us in the
collection of their own revenue and assist in carrying
out the treaty, we were not to be considered bound to
carry out our part of a stipulation with regard to which
we had never received their co-operation. But he directed
that a note should be written stating that, if the Chinese
authorities did not co operate with us, we could not carry
out the stipulation of the treaty. That note was com-
municated to the high commissioner, who returned a
very vague answer, in which he said he was not aware
of any smuggling being in existence • so matters had con-
tinued since 1851. He could lay that despatch and the
note is question on the table.
The Earl of ELLENBOROITGH asked if there was
any objection to produce the estimate of the expense in
England and India of the operations in China in 1857 I
No answer was given ; but the motion was put from
the woolsack and agreed to, as we understood.
The Lighting of Towns (Ireland) Act Amendment
Bill was read a second time.

The Commons Inclosure Bill was read a third time
and passed.
The house then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YEsnatair.)
The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following private bills were read a third time
ani passed —Exeter and Exmouth Railway ; Price's
Patent Candle Company ; and the Whitehaven, Cleator,
and Egremont Railway.
The Portland Harbour Bill was read a second time,
and ordered to he committed.

Mr. LANGWORTHY moved that, in the case of the
Salford Borough (No. 1) Bill, aed the Salford Borough
(No. 2) Bill, the examiners of petitions for private bills
have leave to sit and proceed to-rnorrow.—Agreed to.
Mr. FITZROY moved the standing orders, providing
for the suspension of private bills in the present session,
and for resuming proceedings thereupon in the next
session. The object of the motion was to put private
bills in the same position in the new Parliament as they
wEPTasrliaLenLtEaLvtE.o their progres
s
throughere in
thethe presenthoiTislec.—K Agreed to.
Mr. SPOONER called the attention of the Home
Secretary to the case of a man named :Voolton, charged
with burglary at Ashover, and asked if ho had received
any information from the Recorder of Birmingham that
the burglar was well known to the police of that town,
and that the learned Recorder bad suggested to the
Home Secretary the necessity of withdrawing the licence?
Sir G. GREY said that in Fibruary, 1856, his
attention was called by the Recorder of Biraliog•

Mr. J. EWART asked the Pint Lord of tae Treaury
if it were the intention of Government to make any fur-
ther recognition of the services of Sir J. Sl‘Ncill and
Ca. Tulloch in the Crimea 1
Lord PALMERSTON sail that the Government bad
made what be conceived to be an ample recognition of
the merits of the services of these gentlemen. They had
been acknowledged in that house, and by letters to th se
gentlemen ; and, moreover, it had been intimated to them
that it was the intention of Government to recommend
them to the Crown to be ii-resentd each with
a sum of 1,0001. as a more material mknowlAgment of
their services for three months in the Crimea. These
gentlemen bad thought fit to decline that offer, and it
waa not for him t) question their motives. It appeared
to him that the Crown had done all it clul I be advised
to do.