The Sun.
London, England, 1857-12-04 00:00:00

4, 18N7.

I Mogul princes." Well, he (Lord Derby) hoped his right
' hon. friend had not committed any great blunder in
describing Delhi in those terms. But Mr. Smith went
on to say that it was lucky that the inntineere had gone
to Delhi, " because Gen. Anson was rapidly approach-
ing"--to be sure it was at a season of the year which
corbade very rapid marching—and Delhi was a city, or
rather a place, a which, from its peculiar position, might
be easily surrounded"—(laughter)— surrounded by the
large force which Gen. Anson was bringing with him,
and which would perhaps amount to 2,000 men when
they all arrived. (Laughter.) It was notorious (said the
right hon. gentleman) that Delhi, from its situation,
might be easily surrounded, and then, "if we should
not be able to take it by force, we should have no diffi-
culty in reducing it by famine." Was there ever such
an instance of utter ignorance ? (Cheers and laughter.)
But the right hon. gentlemen proceeded : "Unfortu-
nately the mail left on the 27th, and he (Mr. Smith)
could not, therefore, apprise the house that Delhi had
been razed to the ground, but lie hoped that by the next
mail they would 'teen that ample retribution had been
exacted from the mutineers." (Laughter) Such was the
language of the Board of Control, such were the know-
ledge and forethought displayed by the minister who
was peculiarly charged with the affairs of India.
(Rear, hear.) When the news of the revolt arrived,
the utmost sympathy was expressed on the part of
almost every European state. Early in the month of
July the Sultan granted his firman, upon the application
of Lord Stratford, for the passage of our troops by way
of the Red Sea. The Pacha voluntarily wrote to the Pe-
ninsular and Oriental Co., stating that if any British
troops were sent across his territory, not may would he
give them every facility, whether they came in uniform
or out of uniform, but that they should have his own
horses and carriages, and every facility should be afforded
them. It was not known so generally as it aught to be,
because it was the highest compliment that could be paid
to this country, and because it showed how wide-spread
was the sympathy which was felt fur us by the most
powerful monarch in Europe—it was not generally
known, but the Emperor of the Fr, soh of his own acc, rd
volunteered, if it would be any couveuience to us for our
troops to go across France, he would not only allow
them to do so, but would place every facility in the way.
(Cheers.) Would it be believed ? The finnan of the Sul-
tan, the offer of the Pacha, and the promise of the Em-
peror were alike declined, and not a single soldier from
that time till Oct. 1 were sent by way of Suez. It was
said there would have been some difficulty in point of
transport when the troops arrived at the Red Sea; but it
had been stated more. han once, and never contraicted,
that Lord Elphinutono (whonsiservices it would be injus-
tice not to acknowledge) offered to send a rapid steatuer
to expedite the news, only Lord Canning told him there
was no hurry ; and he also offered to send steamers up
the Red SC3 to bring on the troops. More than this, the
Peninsular and Oriental Company offered in the month
of July t r make such arrangements that the troops
might have been taken across the isthmus in 24 hours ;
and they likewise offered the use of their mail steamers,
which would carry 500 men each trip. Now, if that offer
had been accepted, the troops would have arrived at
Bombay in 6 or 7 weeks after they left England ; and
consequently if they had left at the end of June, or the
beginning of July, they would have reached their desti-
nation early in August. But the Government declined all
the propositions, and they refused to avail themselves of
them. Sultan, Pacha, Emperor, and company, all were
alike declined; the Government resolved to trust to their
own resources. What happened ? In the month of August
an application was made to the Court of Directors (who
from the first had wished to send out the troops across the
desert), to make the same arrangement with the Peein-
sular and Oriental Company, which had been offered and
refused. What he was about to state appeared so strange
that he hardly expected it to be believed, but he asked
her Majesty's Government to contradict it if they could,
and if they did not contradict it he promised that he
would produce irrefragable evidence of the truth of it.
Some considerable time after these arrangements the
President of the Board of Control somewhat surprised
the Peninsular and Oriental Company by a letter which
be wrote to them to ask if a scheme might not be or•
ganised for sending troops to India by the company's
steamers. Now, this had been done for a considerable
time both under the authority of her Majesty's; Govern.
ment an.' that of the East India Company, and yet the
President of the Board of Control wrote to ask if it was
poi ible to organise a scheme for doing it. He asked
how, after what he had stated, the country could trust
to the vigour, the energy, the wisdom of those by whom
the government of India was administered. If the advice
of his noble friend Lord Elienborough bad been folowed,
if the offer of the Pacha of Egypt had been accepted, and
troops ha I been sent out in the month of July, or even in
the month of August, by the overland route, they would
have arrived, if sent out in the beginning of July, in the
middle of August ; but the first reinforcement—with the
exception of those belonging to the Chinese expedition and
a small force which came from the Mauritius—which ar-
rived at Calcutta for the Indian service, went out by the
Golden Fleece, which made an extraordinary quick pas-
bilge of 68 days, and reached Calcutta at the latter end of
October. Now, look at the circumstances in which the
garrison of Lucknow was placed at this time—look at
the position of the relieving force, which was now inter-
cepted and besieged, and then tell him what would have
been the effect if the troops, which did not arrive till
the later end of October, bad arrived in the middle
of August or in September. Why if they had Havelock's
movements would have been perfectly secure ; and if the
garrison of Luckno ',iv with all the helpless women and
children in it fell before the barbarous enemy they had
to encounter, upon her Majesty's Government who la I
delayed o send troops by the quickest route would he
the guilt. He hoped that her Majesty's Government
would not think that, because he had felt it his duty as
a peer of Parliament to criticise their conduct, ho and
those who acted with him were disposed to give them
one whit less cordial assistance in carrying out their
vernment of the country, the men who were happy
enough to enjoy the confidence of the country and of the
sovereign, and who were responsible for the administra-
tion of public affairs, ought to be supported by every
man who had the interest of his country at heart as
warmly as if they had entire confidence in them. At
present they had to reconquer an empire, in the first
instance to re-establish their power, and then, when they
had done that, would be the time to take into considera-
tion what was a meet important object, namely, the future
oreanisation of the Government. There was one painful
subject to which he must allude before he sat down.
They had all heard the details of those fearful crimes
and those inhuman butcheries and barbarities at which
even at this distance the blood of every man who hea-d
them boiled with indignation, and therefore he could
well believe that if they at this great distance had this
strong feeling, the men who hal witnessed these scenes
of butchery, among the victims of wnich were perhaps
some to whom they were dearly attached, that the men
whose feelings had been shocked and horrified by the
scenes they had witnessed—that those who came, while
the murdering and butchery were yet fresh, to that horrid
slaughter-house in Cewnpore, who had seen the mang ed
corpses of English women and children and the muti-
lated remains of Engliehinen—he could easily understand
that those wh i had witnessed such scenes as this should
be transported to a degree of frensy which should partake
somewhat of the dorneniacal character even of those by
whom these deeds were perpetrated ; that, coming fresh
from the scene of the slaughter o their dishonoured
daugeters and wives and mothers, they should
occasionally be inspired by a sort of tiger-like thirst for
blood ; that they ehould lose a'l control over their feel-
ings, and that for the moment they should become
almost as savage as those who committed these harbari-
ties. And vengeance, righteous retribution, should be
taken for the vindication of outraged humanity, for the
security of Government, and for the restoration and
preponderance of our own power. Those who had
traitorously joined the ranks of our opponents, every
soldier who had taken arms against us, deserved the
penalty of death. But for those miscreants who bad
perpetrated on the bodies of women and children atroci-
ties over which human nature compelled a veil of decency
to be drawn—for those who bad been guilty of unima-
ginable atrocities against human nature, for them
death was too mild a punishment. What punishmeat
was to be indicted when the men who were to be blown
from the cannon's month told them exultingly that they
died rejoicing that they had, with their own hand slaugh-
tered some three or four women / Such men were looked
upon as martyrs by their fellows. They should have the
heavier doom inflicted on them of protracted life, with
the brand of Cain upon them—protracted life embittered
with painful corporeal punishment. They should lead a
life of hopeless and constant slavery, condemned to the
most degrading punishment. Be they Brahmins of the
highest class, they should be the slaves of the lowest
Pariatie, and in hopeless slavery they shou!d drag out
an existence from which they should think that death was
a relief, a terror to those who might be tempted to share
in their guilt. He hoped that in what he had said he had
shown no desire of vengeance for vengeance sake. He
desired stern and urirel en tin justice for;the sak ta of justice
and for the purpose of exciting terror among evil do, re.
But what he feared was that the feeling against those
who had committed those horrors should be ex-
tended to all the native population. If the soldiers
at the capture of Delhi, in their thirst for vengeance
had sacrificed some innocent lives, that was a cir-
cumstance which was to be deeply deplored, though
they were hardly to be blamed for it. But he hal
seen letters which led him to think that every man with
a white face iu India thought that every man with a
black face was his natural enemy, sod was to be eh st
down without the slightest hesitation. That was a tpirit
which could not be allowed, which must be restrained, if
not by the principles of Christianity, by the principles o'
sound policy. If such a state of things continued, away
with all hope of ever recovering the empire of India
Whatever might be their form of government, whatever
might be their law, these two things must be strenuously
borne in Mind—they must convince the native, muce
more than he had ever been convinced before, that they
were perfect masters of him and his country. Ther
must be no half measures ; the native must feel that
England was his master, but that notwithstanding all
that has happened, that mastery was e xercised, not for
the lust of dominion, but for his own benefit. He must
be, if theyfpleased, a servant, but they must be his bene-
factors. And though they must hold India by the
domirtion of the sword and force, yet they must not
eneect to govern it by the sword alone, unconnected
with the moral influence. One word more, and he would
quit this important subject, into which he had been led
at gr.: ater length than he intended. The Rep.. Speech,
in mysterious terms, etated that the affairs of the East
India dominions would require their most serious cocsi
deration, and they were recommended to their most
earnest attention. Now this paragraph meant anything or
nothing. No doubtsome of her Majesty's mieisters would
do him the honour to follow him in this debate, and he
hoped that he should receive from them a distinct explan-
ation of this passage, and whether her Majesty's Govern-
ment intended to bring forward any measures with regard
to the government of Ind a, ke meant with regard to the

constitution and the form of government, and the relative 1
powers now possessed by the East India Company and
the imperial Government, or whether it was their inten-
tion simply to call the attention of Parliament to the
subject by way of committee of inquiry. Now he
earnestly hoped, if they intended to legislate upon it at
all, that they intended to legislate upon their own respon-
sibility. (Hear, hear.) In 1852 he moved for the appoint-
reent of a committee of inquiry into the then state of the
government of India. That committee continued its
labotrig during the short session of 1852, and in 1853 its
deliberations were cut short by the act of the Govern-
ment which succeeded him, and which he certainly
thought very unfortunate, and they then proceeded to
legislate on India, notwithstanding the remonstrances
and the motion of a right hon. friend of his in the other
house. However, the act was passed, and after having
the act, her Majesty's then Government thought it ne•
cessary to continue the inquiry, though it seemed to him
it would have been more natural to have inquired first.
They continued the inquiry, and the result was a vast
amount of information. That information, as in the case
of the Bank Charter, was to the fullest extent. He did
not mean to say that there were not some points on
which they might have more information, but they had
sufficient information as to whether the present govern-
ment should be continued or whether any alteration
should be made in it, and he trusted, if it was intended
that this subject should form part of their deliberations,
that the legislation proposed shculd be on the respon-
sibility of Government. That the affairs of India, if it
were intended to legislate on the whole organisation of
that empire, would occupy their attention for the whole
session he might venture to assert ; nay more, that they
would occupy the attention of the whole country fur the
life of the youngest wan among them. (Hear, hear.)
There was only one other subject to which his noble
friead had adverted, and on which he thought it neces-
sary to add a word. His noble friend said it was the
duty of her Majesty's Government by all means in their
power to promote Christianity in India. No man
could be more desirous than he was that the blessings
of Christianity should be diffused as wide as possible,
and eliecially that its doctrines should exercise a whole-
some influence on minds so debased as those of the
population of India. But the more he wished that
Christianity should be spread in India, the more he
deprecated the intervention of Government in that
respect. (Hear, hear.) If they intended to place an
insuperable bar between the governing body and the
population—they had seen in the (Ilse of the greased
cartridges with what inflammable materials they were
dealing—and depend upon it if they meant to make the
settlement of their Indian empire impossible, they would
endeavour to convert the native to Christianity by the
influence of Government. He did not mean to say that
they should put the slightest impediment in the w iy of
missionary enterprise in India. He doubted whether
missionary enterprise would be successful. He shoal I
say, however, by all means give missionary enterprise
full liberty ; but whatever they did, Government should
stand aloof from the two religions, and exercise no in-
fluence in conversion. We might not be able, and should
not for years be able, to trust Mahommedan or Hinder)
as we had done, but we were bound not to do slavish
homage to their religion—not to conceal for a moment
that we were Christians—nay, ipy our conduct to show
that our religion was superior to theirs ; but we were
boead to abstain in the most careful manner from any
the sighte.t violation of their religious prejudices or
their superstitions observances, however degrading we
might think them. If missionary enterprise in India
was to prosper at all, it must be by the ell re in differ
ence of Government. There was only one other subject
to which he would advert, and that he would touch upon
as lightly as possible. He meant the long-pending sub-
ject of Parliamentary Reform, which was included in the
speech from the throne, and had been treated with ex-
ceeding moderation by his noble friend, who had
roared like a sucking dove." (Laughter.) This measure,
so far as appeared from the statement of his noble friend,
was merely to remedy some trifling defect, to make some
trifling alteration in the Reform Bill. If, said his noble
friend, it was intended to do anything more than this, he
knew nothing about it. (Laughter.) All he could i:ay
was, be it a great or be it a small mea-oire, if her Ma-
jeiiity's Government thought this was a suitable time for
introducing a measure of reform, be and tho-es who
acted with him were ready to give it the moist de-
liberate, the most impartial, and the most dispas-
sionate considerae ion. If it removed blemishes,
so much the better. Far from them to con-
tend that there were no blemishes. If to melee im-
provements, so much the better; provided they con-
sidered them improvements. But what he would wish
to impress upon Government was, that as they had taken
a considerable time to think about it, perhaps it would
be advisable to give Parliament—he woul t not say as
much time, but some reasonable time to take into con-
sideration. The bill of course had been drawn long since.
(A. laugh.) The bill was drawn tvo or three years age,
and bat for the circumstances would ha ea beet brought
before the last Parliament. The bill, as he understood
from the apparent consent of his noble friend, was in
readiness. Did he so understand him ? (Laughter.) At
all events, it was in a state of progress, as the lawyers
said, more or less ; and being the work of a united Cabi-
net, he hoped that Government would lose no tune in
laying it before the house. There would be this advan-
tage in having this short session before Christmas, viz.,
that Government would have an opportunity of layiog
before Parliament while Parliament was sitting, that and
the other measures which they had prepared, and those
who were likely to support a large measure of reform,
and those who would support one considerably smaller,
would thus have an opportunity of considering the mea-
sure proposed. He had felt it his duty at considerable
length to offer some comments on the speech delivered
from the throne, and to ask for some (xplanatiens. Us
was happy to say, he did not find fault with the language
of the speech, and he did not intend to propose any
amendment to the addres's, As he understood that it
or so ilia 12/1911 f,f 4-k. a t, -
other question before the ordinary time for the meeting
of Parliament but that on which tbey were specially
summoned, he begged to assure his noble friend that, as
far as he was concerned and those who acted with him,
they should be ready to give every facility for the des-
patch of business, go,ae to enable Parliament to adjourn
at the earliest possible period.
Earl GRANVILLE—I am happily relieved from thene-
cessity of following the noble earl at any great length, and
will therefore confine myself to a few of his observations.
The noble earl commenced his speech by saying that we had
never met on an occasion when the circumstances of the
country wore of such deep gloom as the present. But, my
lords, there have been within our own recollection times of
great alarm, of great suffering, _of great danger, and every
one must feel it a consolation that the country surmounted
those trials, that she became more rich and powerful than
before, and was not in fact injured by the struggle which
had taken place. And though I quite agree with the noble
Earl as to the gravity of the circumstances by which we
are surrounded, yet I must remind you that in each one of
those circumstances there already appears a gleam of sun-
shine, and that there is not the least reason for supposing
that this country will not again bo able to ove;come her
temporary difficulties. (Hear, hear.) :The noble Earl on
former occasions always afforded me singular interest and
pleasure by the manner in which he criticised the addresses
proposed by the Government to her Majesty, and the
singular dexterity and the great power of analysis which
ho used to bring to bear on those productions; but on the
present occasion he has entirely confined his criticism to
faults of omission and not of commission by the Govern-
ment. The noble Earl began by lamenting the want of
information in the Royal Speech as to the state of our
foreign relations, and expressing some distrust lest the
Government might be keeping something back which
might cause apprehension. Now, my lords, the fact is,
the Government have no other reason to regard our rela-
tions with foreign Powers than with the most intense
satisfaction and pleasure, for at no period have our rela-
tions either with the European Powers, or with the United
States of America, been ou a more perfectly satisfactorily
footing, (Hear, hear, and cheers). The only cause to
which he alluded as likely to bring about dissatisfaction
or disunion was with regard to the Principalities ; but
have the pleasure of informing him that Congress will
,mtoew.
thoseetnono na
late principleseec at jonadecision
which
havew
was enno t comaalreadyola 'cl
be-
cause there was insufficient information, an .t it was
desirable to gather the opinions of the Principalities, and
also the opinion of that Power which was most importantly
engaged in their interests; but Franco and England
ars perfectly united—they assent to the principles
concurred in by the whole of the European Powers—
that it is essential to secure to those Principalities,
without danger to the whole of Europe, the greatest
possible amount of happiness. (Hear, hear.) I cannot
help thinking that the noble earl's complaint about China
is somewhat a joke. The reason that nothing has been
done in China is so notorious, and, indeed, the reason was
so clearly explained by the noble earl himself,that it would
be childish its me to give explanations. (Hear.) If that
force which had been so wisely and judiciously called for
by Lord Canning, and so cordially and discreetly afforded
by Lord Elgin, had not been turned away from its pur-
pose
all that Lord Elgin
for a more pressing exigency, it would have been
hadw( nears
einstructione than adequate for accomplishing
to obtain. There might then have been
haveopionnion how far the whole of the Chinese empire would
ged in the quarrel, but it is now pretty clear
that ga
Commissioner Yeh will be left to fight his own
battles ; and never was there a time when our intercourse
was more satisfactory with the rest of the Chinese empire;
and I believe, as soon as we aro able to send some troops,
even a smaller number than we orginally intended, we will
come to a satisfactory issue upon the Chinese question.
The noble earl then very naturally dwelt upon the point
with respect to which Parliament has been assembled—l
mean the measures for indemnifying the directors of the
Bank of England. The noble earl asked me a question
which I am net perfectly,sure he is entitled to ask, or is
entitled to expect me to answer. (Hear, hear.) The noble
earl asked me whom her Majesty's Government had con-
sulted on this question, and by whom they had been ad-
vised. Now, that is a question which I maintain lam
am not bound to answer; because her Majesty's Govern-
of it must weigh. But Ido think it
ment are responsible for the measure, and upon them alone
the responsibility
right to state what were the the facts of the case. They
were these : Whilst her Majesty's Government did act
upon their own responsibility, they (lid not act with-
out. a full knowledge of the facts upon which that re-
sponsibility was taken. And it was a knowledge of
those facts which convinced them that if they did not
interfere, most serious consequences to the count-v and to
the commercial world at large must have ensued.
Upon this it was that they proposed to take their
stead. The noble earl said : You should have gone fur-
ther, and have stated your reasons for not agreeing with
me in thinking that this act should be entirely changed__
that although in ordinary times it succeeded well enough,
yet in times of panic it only increased difficulties. But I
do not think that this is the right moment for entering on
discussion as to the merits of the Bank Charter Act. At
the same time 1 am ready to state this much, that it is not
the intention of her Majesty's Government to propose any
change in this act. As at present advised, they do not think
any such change desirable ; but there was a committee of
the House of Commons, not to be appointed, but already
Appointed, and who recommended that they should be re-
appointed next year —to them the whole question would be
submitted, and would be carefully considered. Her Ma-
jesty's Government did not, of course, pledge themeelvta

not to make any alteration acting upon further informa-
tien, but they were not prepared to do so at present. The
noble earl further expressed his fears that the working po-
pulation of the country had a very severe winter before
them to pass. I think the noble earl (Lord Portman) be-
hind me•held out some consolation in this respect when he
remarked upon the improved demeanour of the working
classes. At present they were well acquainted with the
real state of thinge—they knew that the Government had
no power to alleviate their distress, that it was dependent
upon causes over which the Governineet had no control
and in many instances the working men were willing to
co-operate with their masters in working out every reason-
able combination in order to mitigate as far as possible the
pressure of the coming winter. Besides, the blessing of an
abundant harvest was another consolatory mitigation of
any suffering that was to be expected from the high price
of food. (Hear ) The noble earl then reverted to the topic
which must interest every person who can think or who
can feel—the state of our Indian army. The noble earl
complains that the measures taken by Government have
not been sufficient to alleviate the private sufferings of
individuals, and recommended her Majesty's Governmell,
to go further into the consideration of private losses. But
I cannot help thinking that the GOverneient by so doing
would have laid itself open to the charge of a grave exag-
geration of the state of affairs. That that state is most
serious, that it requires the most careful consideration it
is impossible to deny ; but that our Indian empire is now
in peril I do not believe. (Cheers.) I have a confident
hope that if common prudence and common judgment be
exercised, that empire will be reinstated in all its former
power. The noble earl then spoke of the gallant conduct
of our soldiers. And here certainly the noble earl was
guilty of no exaggeration. (Hear.) I really believe that
exaggeration is impossible in describing that conduct, and
I should be unwilling to destroy the force of the singularly'
eloquent and vivid warner in which the noble earl de'
scribed their unheard-of difficulties, and their unparalleled
su cess. But if anything be more important, or more
likely than another to obtain a place in history, it is the
conduct of those wonderful men—in a large ;majority of
cases, civilians--who, though scattered at intervals over
the country, have by their deeds covered themselves with
glory, and made themselves worthy of the name of English'Chered (rsu)
orTdhpeorretwmaasoo,nheopwhervaesre,
and
the speech of
the noble
lo
the only one with which I could not fully ceinci tu
r , was
almostnamely,
that he did not think it just to criticise the sots of public
men who were absent from the country. But I think the
acts of public men are public property, and the only reser-
vation 1 wish to make is, that'we should befirstacquainted
with all the facts, that we should not look at transactions
by the light that subsequent facts may throw upon them,
but throw ourselves as far as possible into the situation of
those whohave been placed in any extraordinary position',
under circumstances of which they have had no expe-
rienco whatever. The noble earl 'says that he is dis-
posed to treat Lord Canning with tenderness. But
I ask that the conduct of Lord Canning may stand or
fall by its own merits, after a full investigation of all
the circumstances. After this the noble earl went into
very great detail of facts more or less bearing against
Lord Canning. No one is more expert than the noble earl
in examining blue books, and picking out from them the
kernel of what may suit his purpose. But in this instance
I think the noble earl has had recourse to a certain red
pamphlet rather than to blue books. He says that Lord
Canning did nothing to stop the issue of greased cartridges.
How was this knowledge acquired? Again, the noble earl
says that all this ought to have been found out long before
by Lord Canning. Why, the noble earl hime if is reported
to have expressed himself, in term which showed he sup-
posed that these troubles were coming to a close. But,
judging from past events, the noble earl is not justified in
saying that Lord Canning has behaved with too great els'
money towards the troops that have mutinied. It has
proved a most fortunate thing that these mutinies have
taken place from time to time, and not simultaneously,
for then it would have been almost impossible to deal with
them. But I think it is quite fair to contend that severe
measures at the outset would have been more fatal than
mild ones. It is all very well to talk of energy mad
deter-
ruination, but it is no joke to disband so large a body as.
this was, whilst so small a body of men was at the dispose!
of Lord Canning. With respect to the somewhat personal
attack that has been made upon the President of the
Board of Control (Mr. V. Smith), I rather expect, 11P°11
quiry, to find that it is quite unfounded ; but even if ths
noble earl has been rightly informed, and the right bon;
gentleman's knowledge of the geography of Delhi was a
fault, I cannot forget that a noble earl (the Earl of Ellen-
borough) opposite, who has enjoyed the advantage of being
in India, and knows the country well, once made ulna
singular proposition with regard to the siege of Delhi—
Tue Earl of ELL ENBOROUGH (interposing)-4 beg t°
state that what I did say was that the supply of water
should be cut off from i ielhi some three weeks previous t°
the commencement of the siege.
Earl GR A.N VI LLE—Even then, however, the noble,
earl seemed to forget that there would be a quantity
water in the wells of the city, to say nothing of the river
Jutnna itself. Further, neglect has been imputed to her
Majesty's Government in not sending out troops to India
in greater numbers, and more rapidly. But I believe that
iu no instance in the history of the world has so large
body of troops, amounting to nearly 36,000 men, been sent
on such v.journey, and, as far as we know, in such good's
health, considering the climate. It has been said that es
ought to have ca led out the whole militia of the country,
and have sent out these troops earlier by the route of the
overland mail. But there were no details upon which We
could entirely rely so as to secure vessels for conveying
tsirbe rep
to
downo hve the
secureded a Seasn andaeo
ti tnn wouldber have
this time of the year without the greatest injury to the
ethbeeenpnirmpposuel.,
Besides which, it was imponslblleeeatorlm(taheeeEthaeri posfsspaegrebayt)
health of the troops. The
then asked another question, namely, whether her Ma-
jesty's Government had any measures to propose with re-
spect to India, and he offered the Government some advice
on that subject. The noble earl said it was the wish of her
Majesty's Government merely and solely to pass a measure
for indemnifying the Bank proprietors. But I think it will
be obvious to your lordships that no public good could
arise from following that advice. I think no public good
could arise from our meeting for a short time before Christ-
mas; to open the whole business of the session during that
short sitting. Such a course would not be very convenient
if
to the public or Parliament, and I think it would be ,111°°fr
unwise. Therefore, I can assure the noble earl that it s
not our intention to do so during this sitting of Para*"
went, and that we shall reserve it till the meeting of Par-
liament after Christmas, to enter into the whole of the
Indian cluestissee rally and, I hope, satisfactorily.
The harl DERA (interrupting) was understood to
say he did not ask for any details of particular measures,
but whether Government was prepared with any measure
on the subject.
Earl GRANVILLE, in continuation, said—With re-
gard to India, the Government, while they thought that
this most important subject must form the ground of sell:
one considera ion in Parliament, considered they sh°
reserve themselves till February, when this great que
tion must be discussed. The noble earl has spoken of one
et
or tt hwee qpueei snttiso inn oefe nCehercitsiteina nwi tiyt,h
misunderstood. I remember the noble earl expressed some
alarm thisl
be lei ue bv jee
isit Withsomreewg ahr ose
alarm last session at Lord Canning having subscribed tot
he Lord
subscribe Canning
towrote certain n
sm
ieat i
—ono being a Bible Society—the object of which wass nt?
metistesiro,usatraytin g thatsocieties.
translate the Bible into the different native languages, Id
stating that therein he only followed the example of Wel
lesley acid some others of the most eminent governors-genee
rel. Another instance was, that he had subscribed to Dr.
Duff's school in Calcutta— one of the very best and most
I.
tolerant schools in all India. Lord Canning said he per'
fectly admitted that a governor-general had no business
privatetunto
letter, s
whatever to exercise either power, or authority, or prs%
sion for purposes of proselytism ; but, with rsgard to
right to subscribe to a school, he joined Issue, and would
not be deterred from continuing his subscriptions. e _
lieve nothing is so fatal to the Christian religion itself
the Government using anything like compulsion ; but it la
most monstrous that our religion should continue to be
of the
Government should not in erfere with the religion
degraded—therefore it is clear, I think, that while the
natives, they should cause the Christian religion to b
spected, while they allowed universal toleration. (Hea,l
Another point to which the noble earl alluded is one ?I.!
very painful character—l mean with regard to the punish'
went to be administered to some of those who have mute
Lied, and some of whom have perpetrated the most fright*
ful enormities. Now, in much of what the noble earl say
join is ue with the noble lord—that
I agree ; but I think it is important also—and there I mast
in
anything our like the
Chris.
administration of punishment we should recollect
ur
tiara character, add, as a civilised nation, we
me nt of those
should take
the greatest possible care that in our punish
miserable heathens we should never approach anything
like torture. (Hear.) Let the punishment be swift—let it
he open—but, for God's sake, let us be careful of the
character of it. (Hear.) With regard to what the noble lord
stated—that he should support the Government on great
national questions—l do not doubt it; for, when national
questions are really to be dealt with, all Parties unite of
ono man to ward off national disasters. Therefore, I feel.
grateful to the noble earl for the remarks he has made.
have only now to say I feel obliged to him for giving the
Government notice of the course he will pursue. (Hear.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH observed that the
noble earl who had jest sat down had never yet given ant
information to the house as to the intentions of the Go'
verement in bringing forward any measure respecting II?:
die in the present session. The noble earl told them it
would occupy a great deal of their time. Of coarse
it
would ; but it must be the intention of Government to
bring forward some measure in the course of the session.:
He asked the noble earl distinctly had the Government
any such measure prepared or not?
Earl GRA.NYILLE—I have stated quite clearly that it
is not my intention to answer that particular question.
have stated that after ChristmaS it is the intention of her
Majesty's Ministers most fully to explain their views.
After an observation from the Earl of DEBBY, which
was not distinctly heard in the gallery,
The Earl of ELLENBOROITGH again rose and said—
Under the circumstances it was not for him to make any
lengthened observations as to whether Government might
intend or not at some future period to bring forward act
measure; but this he would say, that though he might
not be supposed to be generally favourtetle to the mesa"
mires of the present Government, or towards that peel
of the administration which was conducted by the Cour_
of Directors, he must frankly admit ho was not aware of
anything having occurred on the part of the Court of
owPiethhediceoluv(r
Directors since the commencement of these midi ir_
td thato r
of
fd etghree
present
s en t obstructionsystem relation:;
mode to
theopueld
make it necessary to proceed to early leg
therefore it appeared to him a most inconvenient mdo_t°
great e spire when they were struggling
direct a general question upon the civil government
means to reconquer that empire. He had little more
say, ersept that so early as the 19th of May he sta
that house that it would be satisfactory if, considering
information recently received from India, the Government
re.
would state what measures they intended to adopt witt_l,
geed to the Indian army. The noble lord at the heae_.,.
the War Department then stated that no such alePreP7.ifa
with all theme
of
sinus existed in the minds of the Government, and add
%
that in the course of five weeks recruits would be sell'
He (Lord Ellenborough) asked the number. The Secreted
for War replied 4,000 and 4 regiments, but that it was n°
convenient to send the troops before Juno on account of
the unhealthy season. Now he (Lord Ellenborough)
furnish from that that 8,000 men would be transported bile;
tween the second week in June and the 23d June ; and
felt it was not for him to press for more than that assure.
ance at that time. But not one man left the shores of Pig",
land in those 5 weeks, and they only left in the following
5 weeks. Not a man went before the let of July, and then
between 600 or 700 men wero sent but there was a lose
5 weeks. He was so constantly thinking upon the subject
that, having left London for the country after the 19th of
May, he wrote a private note to the noble lord the
tary for War, suggesting that the ye eels carrying l e
send
f those
to CILIA should be stopped and placed under the directions
of the Governor-General, and directing that he should
for teem if he thouht necessary to do no;
troops had one and lead been sent for by theanCioverno:.r:
General, how different would have been our position

India now? But the troops were sent five weeks too late,
and were sent in old ships which had been trading to India
ioyears ago. No assistance was given those ships i n pass-
the line, which might have been done by detaching
steamers to tow them through the calms. But what
Was the difference of four or five weeks? It was a differ-
ence of four or five weeks in the fall or the safety of Luck-
Ile said troops were not sent as they should have
been, and prober care was not taken in sending them; and
if Lueknow fell, for the loss of honour to this country, and
ti
for aentll the horrors that would attend that 'all, the Govern-
were responsible. (Hear.)
The Duke of ARGYLL said he believed the noble earl
had 'Token under some undue excitement, and had over-
rated the apprehensions which he himself attached at the
time to the events which took price before the mutiny at
Meerut, during the months of January, February, and
larch, concluded as they were by the disbandment and
aismissal of two native regiments in the presence of a large
force of other native regiments, by Lord Canning. He (the
noble duke) did not wish to conceal the fact that those
°vents prior to the mutiny at Meerut did not raise in the
minds of the Government of India or of the Government at
ne, feelings which if they could have been viewed by the
ht of subsequent events, they would uudoubtedly have
Produced. The first occasion on which the noble earl di-
rected the attention of the house to the events passing in
eindia—and he (the Duke of Argyll) meant those prelimi-
*rY events to which he had just referred—was on May 19.
'tne•
ir lordships all knew the deep interest which his noble
friend took in the affairs of India, and the facility with
which he entered into questions relating to that empire.
Jet the time mentioned, he simply asked a question es to
what were the steps which Government proposed to take,
• ',ea(' he made no comments whatever as t
as, o the force in India.
•Lhe answer given by Government hatw they felt no
alarm for the safety of that empire, but at the same time
they proposed to send out additional troops—to the extent
of four regiments. Ho was now quite astonished to hear
that a Pledge was given to send them out instanter.
ih• Earl of ELL ENBOROUGH and the Earl of DERBY
'Five weeks were mentioned.
The Duke of ARGYLL said be found by a note made
that Lord Panmure remarked that if the troops left England
earlier than the second week in June, they would arrive in
India in an unhealthy season, and the events which had
Occurred there did not create the idea that they were re-
equired instantly. The telegraphic accounts arrived on the
9th June, and they stated simply that a mutinous spirit
1°4,8 apparent, especially in the ed Regiment of Cavalry at
"'dd. He would now mention that the Government had
no desire to throw upon the Court of Directors any part of
the responsibility which justly lay upon them—(hear)--
tilt the attack made upon the Court of Directors had had
this beneficial effect, it produced as coming from them a
tome
and accurate statement as to the reinforcements of the
;my sent to India. There could be no doubt that rein-
• rcements were sent out in the ordinary class of ships
taken up before the accounts arrived—that was to say,
"oh ships as were used for that purpese when reinforce.
meats were made to the army in India. That fact he
would• admit on the part of the Government and the Court
of Directors ; but he believed it would be found that im-
mediately disastrous news arrived of the mutiny at Meerut
and the capture of Delhi, the Court of Directors gave im-
mediate orders for a tender of a large class of vessels and
ac7ew steamers. Those tenders were published after the
first meeting of the court after the news reached this coon-
trY• But this was a subject into which they ought not to
have been called to enter to-night. He firmly believed it
Would be found that no undue delay took place after the
ews arrived. He was surprised to hear the noble earl no w
blame the Government for not using screw steamers.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said his remarks were,
thatthey might have used steamers in passing the line, and
la assisting the sailing shipsthreugh the calms.
The Duke of ARGYLL said it should be remembered
that the steamers had to coal at certain points, and suffi-
Ceitt coal was not ready. He should be very much sur-
prised if some of the sailing vessels taken up under some of
the recent traders, and which sailed in company with the
ataamers, bad not made as good a passage as the screw
aiatners, and ho thought this fact would be borne out by
reference to the accounts brought by the last mail.
fThe Earl of HARD WICKE said their lordships on that
aide o the house simply stated to the Government on cer-
tain occasions facts which they did not appreciate as to the
commencement of the perils through which India had gone,
",atid the emergency of the case upon which they ought ear-
lier tohave decided. His noble friend had referred to the
',steamers employed on the coast of Africa being employed
an towing the saltine vessels across the line, but the Govern-
rut did not think it would have been of any advantage.
e thought the advantages which occurred had not been
used by the Government. He used to bo struck by the
?banner in which the navy was dealt with by the Govern.
nient in times of emergency. In cases of this sort—as to
re rapid transit of troops—the navy might have been
fought into play with great effect. To mention a case,
thought
94th Regiment had remained at Plymouth since the
end, of October, long after that regiment was ordered to
t India. The Government took up a Dutch ship, which put
seas and soon put back again, and the contract which
was entered into was never performed. Now, at the time
tt, which this Dutch ship was engaged there was lying at
•Th,LYtnouth the St. Jean d'Acre, quite ready to go to sea.
se`'s was astonished that the resources which the Govern-
suent had in their own hands were not used for the service
of the country. (Hear.) He (the Earl of Hardwicke)
early in the summer suggested the use of the overland
4°ttrney to India, but he was immediately met with objec-
,wane. It had, however, since been found out that it was
practicable to transport troops through France and Egypt
; but if it had been done in June, the Govern-
ment would have had 5,000 men in India at the end of
-ugust. He should advise the Government to use steamers
In future, as sailing vessels had no chance with them. Of
'l3 vessels and steamers which had lately left England for
India, it had been found that the average time taken by
82 former to Calcutta was 103 days, and that of the latter
"`days 15 hours.
nlThe Duke of ARGYLL--When was the comparison
ade ?
teThe Earl of HARDWICKE, after giving the names of
inue vessels, said that would be apparent. The time taken
s; going to Madras was 101 days and 93 days respec-
elelr and to Point de Galls 85 days 12 hours, and 80 days
hours di
so that steamers beat the sailing
vepreskehtin every instance.
thete "0 liake of ARGYLL wished to point out that, as to
sailing vessels, the average given was from a list of
aiaLls which included some of the slowest in the service.
the Earl of HARDWICKE—It appeared, then, that
''"e Government took up some of the worst ships they
Sheetfind, and at a time, too, when they possessed the
fleet governmentin the world. The noble duke admitted that the
took up ships that were very bad, and for this
ere could be no excuse. It was high time that the navy
should be made more generally useful than it had been, for
hitherto it had been considered too much as adapted selely
clef
machine of war, whereas it might often he rendered
eful in the furtherance of peaceful designs. The country
Was compelled to keep up the navy in some force, and at
considerable expense, and was entitled to the utmost ser-
'ice that could be given in return. (Hear, hear.)
Earl GREY said he had no peculiar admiration for the
kct of 1844, but he thought it too much of a half-measure;
the principle upon which it was founded was a sound one,
though not efficiently carried out ; but, whether the act
Was wise or unwise, they had the fact of its having twice
Proved a failure in the space of 10 years, and the Govern-
blent had been compelled to take upon themselves to super-
sede its provisions. After that, he thought the Act of 1844
cjtuld not remain with advantage upon the statute book.
lie could understand the Government bringing in a bill of
rdemnity if they were prepared to follow it up by alter-
g the act ; but to propose a bill of indemnity a second
bore within so short a period as 10 years, without follow-
aag it up with a proposal to amend the act, was to take
fcourse which seemed perversely erroneous. Some
ersena seemed to believe that the necessity for departing
the act in 1847 arose from the mismanagement of the
ek It might at that time be reasonable that it should
eve another trial. Itmustbe obvious, however, that when
two Governments have been compelled to resort to such a
I,4easure as that under consideration, the moral power of
6aukantieect_ was_ at an end..
.(Hear.) The mei-can-silo class
pte `" no longer believe in it, and in future whenever a
allure arose the Government would be expected to inter-
rtel; and henceforth the necessity would be increased. But
e act was not to be maintained, then he would say let
;
10 manner in which and the conditions upon which, it was
ii
ZdeParted from be laid down by Parliament. (Hear.)
If the present arrangement amounted to a distinct
.. If the measure of value was to be tampered with by a
:I,scretionary act on the part of any one, let it be known by
,vttOin that authority was to be executed. At present the
filsonsibility was divided between the Bank and the Go-
13rnraent. That was an arrangement which he thought
ett'gdat not to continue, and an entire alteration ought to be
taae',,e*, Ilia complaint was that the act placed us in a posi-
Whichet all others most likely to bring us into a state in
a departure from the standard might be necessary; he
not fear that such a departure would be made of malice
klrielle4Be, as it were, buttho duration of the existing system
u.gat be endangered from a state of things no longer main-
kelinle, and for which Government and Parliament would
ren u° Prepared. He wished to see the system of the cur-
th Cy reformed on a sound principle. In his opinion it was
BBee ,n11,t.7 of the state to afford money for the use of the State.
erg kept the right of coining in his own hand ; but gold
t.1.el silver were less likely to be abused than paper money.
with respect to the issue of paper money, if persons were
allowed to issue this kind of currency at their discre-
tion, •
Toro
e. they knew from exerience what the result would
proper policy ho thought was that the issue of
1103 r should be distinctly taken up by the State,
o
end that Paper money being so issued should be thrown
pen to free and unreatrieted competition that would
give us considerable relief at the present time, and he was
sorry. to hear that nothing of the kind was to be done.
Whether this or any other course were taken, he re-
v.eated that the moral power of the Act of 1844 was gone.
He did not think legislation would be proceeded with till
after the Parliamentaryinquiry. That this question should
again go before a Parliamentary committee was a worse
course than at once dealing directly with the question. He
thought inquiry would be attended with great advantage
Upon another subject—he meant the causes of the present
commercial distress, because it appeared to him a great
fallacy to attribute the late disasters to our circulating
Medium. He was convinced that a system of commerce
had gradually got established iu this country, as well as iu
other countries, which acted with great evil, and he was
desirous of doing something to check it. He therefore
desired an inquiry into the system of currency, and par-
ticularly into the events which had produced the present
crisis. He came from a part of the country, which, unfor-
tunately, would suffer deeply ; and he thought they, as
Well as the commercial world, had a right to have these
things inquireP d into. He thought that a committee of their
Vrdshi would carry on an inquiry even more efficiently
;h, an a committee of the other house. In the first place,
*", a committee of that house they would have the invalu-
able assistance of his noble friend near him (Lord Over-
St
°lie) ; they would also have the assistance of several of
their lordships, whose services would be of the utmost
value; but, above all, a committee of that house would
not be fettered and frightened by those influences which
°Perated on the members of the other house ; and hence,
he believed they would be likely to probe the matter more
deeply than it would be probed elsewhere.
Lord OVERSTONE agreed with his noble friend in
t •
hinking that the Bank Act deserved the most careful con-
aiderati°ll. He also agreed with his noble friend in the
Principle that everything connected with the issue of money
should be effectually and distinctly separated from every
thing connected with the dealing in money. The act of
1844
stopped short of declaring that the money of the
count?y should belong to and be regulated by the State ;
out in practice, under that act, the management of the
money of the country in its issue was entirely separated
from the business of banking and the dealing in money.
Prejudices in the public mind and errors in minds of great
intelligence were not yet eradicated, and no debate ever took
Pla•
ce in which those errors did not appear. He was at one
time .
unwilling to sanction a more complete separation be-

tween the creation of money and the dealing in money•be-
cause of the inconvenience which might arise from the
transference to the Government of the management ;
but the little he had seen convinced him that it would be
better to carry the principle out to its fullest extent, and
he was therefore for separating in account and in appeal.

anca as was actually separated in practice the creation

Ifrom the dealing in money. He did not agree that it was
fthe prerogative of the Crown to create the money of the
country. He believed it rested on sounder principles—the
principles upon which the Act of 1844 was built. The two
principles upon which that Act was founded wore, first,
that gold was the money of England ; and, secondly, that
the quantity of gold which the country should have for its
money should not be under the control of any Govern-
ment, nor of any body, nor of any private individual, but
should be subject to the free competitive action of the
whole community. Any man might bring any quantity of
gold into the country for the purpose of having it made
into money, and any man might take out of th country
any quantity cf money so made. Thus free trade was esta-
blished in money, and they relied for a proper supply of
money upon the same principle as that on which they
relied for a proper supply of provisions. (Elear.) If the
provisions of the people fell short and prices rose enor-
mously, what would be thought cf a Government who sai3,
" You have been suffering great inconvenience from a
shortness of provisions and paying higher prices than usual,
and seeing your difficuties, and being convinced we ought
not to allow those difficulties to proceed too far, we have
undertaken to store provisions ourselves, and to supply
all and every one to as great an extent as they choose,
upon the condition of their paying the present price ?"
That was precisely what had been done by the issuing this
letter. Circumstances arose in which persons wont to the
Government and said, "This principle of free trade in
money will not apply. You (the Government) mu,t give
an artificial supply at the present price." The Irish
famine was an analogous ease. When that great emer-
gency came the Government did interfere in that anoma-
lous and unlawful manner; but many had grave doubts
whether their interference was beneficial, and whether it
would be repeated a secrnd time. They ought in the
matter of the currency to carry out general principles ;!and
bow could Government interference, he asked, be recon-
ciled with those general principles? It was quite impos-
sible not to acknowledge that the suspension of the Act on
two occasions was a subject of grave consideration. He
understood the noble earl opposite (Earl Derby) to say that
he did not complain of the Act of 1844 as having anything
to do with the creation of difficulties, but that in periods
of famine and pressure it was not sufficient to meet those
difficulties.

The Earl of DERBY—That then it aggravated the diffi-
culties.

Lord OVERSTONE—But it should be remembered that
the power of issuing the letter was derived from the Act of
1844, and that the Government would not, without that
Act, have had such a power, and also without that Act the
public would not have permitted the Bank of England to
raise its interest to anything like 10 per cent. If the inte-
rest had not been raised to 10 per cent. the exchanges
would not have been corrected, the store of bullion would
have diminished, and the Government could not have issued
the letter. It was impossible to deny that the suspension of
the Act twice repeated did create serious difficulty, and he
thought the Government were entitled to say that the
committee which was in existence ought to direct its at-
tention to the question whether, while keeping the provi-
sions of the Act of 1844, which were essential to maintain-
ing the solidity of the monetary system and placing the
exchanges under proper control, they could not add, with-
out relaxing those principles unsafely, au elastic power ap-
plicable to peculiar and exceptionable circumstances. It
was a very grave inquiry, and should only be entered on
with the greatest calmness and judgment, unaffected by
the passions of debate. If they meant to treat this ques-
tion in a really wise and statesmanlike manner they would
not apply their attention to concocting palliatives, but
seek a remedy by tracing these evils to their source. Ho
would advise them to learn wisdom from the history of
the present disturbance. It commenced in the United
States, and no man doubted that that the monetary
crisis there had been fomented by a vicious system
with regard to banking, currency, and trading.
(Hear, hear.) The condition of things in the United
States was closely analogous to the condition of things in
England previous to the passing of the Act of 1814. The
object of Sir Robert Peel was to extricate this country
from a system analogous in all its principles to the sys-
tem of the United States, which twice in twenty years
had produced the universal suspension of specie pay-
ments. Therefore, whatever they did they should
do nothing which tended to place the monetary system of
England on the same condition as the monetary system of
the United States. ( Hear, hear.) The next point was this
—what was the circumstance which weakened the power
of the monetary system under the Act of 1844 to meet this
pressure ? It was the abstraction of 3,000,000 sovereigns
to meet the panic in Scotland and Ireland, with regard to
the issues of local notes. Supposing this country when
menaced by foreign invasion on its southern shores was re-
quired to detach a large force to meet an insurrection in
Scotland or Ireland, would not its power of defence be
weakened ? That was precisely the case of the late dis-
turbance in the money system. At the critical moment,
when all its stores were required to maintain it against
foreign pressure, there came a demand for 3,000,000/. for
no really useful purpose, but solely in consequence of these
local issues of notes in Scotland and Ireland. The panic
in the United States arose, extended to this country, and
where did the malaria first strike us ? At our ports--at
Liverpool and Glasgow, where joint-stock banks soon
proved the unsoundness of their position. The cause of the
difficulties was to be found there, and unless some remedy
could be devised for it any attempt to deal with our mone-
tary laws would be utterly deceptive. There had grown
up in this country and had been rapidly developed within
the last 10 or 15 years a false system of credit and of hold-
ing deposits at call carrying interest, a system which had
grown to an enormous extent, and which was still grow-
ing, and if that evil was not corrected it would certainly
overturn our monetary system altogether. That was not
an isolated opinion of his own, for there was scarcely a
man of enlarged views and experience in the city of Lon-
don who did not entertain the same views. It was indis-
pensable that the attention of Parliament should be directed
to that subject. Let them look at the difficulty in which
the country was placed, notwithstanding the relief sup-
posed to bo afforded by an exceptionable dealing with the
Act of Parliament. He did not moan to say that the Govern-
ment ought not to have taken the step which they had, but
he did say that if the Act had been maintained only 24hours
longer the whole of the vicious system to which he had re-
ferred would have been got rid of by the crumbling to
atoms of the institutions which fostered it. (Hear.) Irre-
trievable ruin would have followed, and the commercial
atmosphere would have been cleared. But to prevent that
it was deemed necessary to] interfere, and to suspend the
operation of the Bank Act. By so doing they had antici-
pated the natural action and legitimate remedy for this
unwholesome system, and therefore had rendered it in-
cumbent upon Parliament to find some other remedy for
the future. What that remedy should be he could not tell,
and he greatly feared that whatever it might be it would
only have the effect of creating a new disorder, and his
serious apprehension was that the very next monetary dis-
turbance would inevitably lead to a suspension of our specie
issue altogether. In 1847 the mere permission to issue ad-
ditional notes was sufficient without that permission being
made use of. The present was a crisis of greater magni-
tude; the evils were also greater, and the Bank had not only
been compelled to avail itself of the permission accorded
to it by the Government, but had actually exceeded its
legitimate issue by some 6,003,000/. or 7,000,0001. ("No.")
He knew exactly what he said, and he maintained its ac-
curacy. The Bank had issued 2,000 0001. beyond the fixed
amount without leaving any supply in the Bank till. Now,
the Bank of England was in that peculiar condition that it
ought to have a large banking reserve, because it had a
large amount of balances of an ephemeral and uncertain
character. To place the Bank of England in a proper bank-
ing position in reference to the deposits it held would re-
quire an amount which justified him in saying that it had
exceeded its proper limits of issue by 6,000,0001. or
7,000,0001. The next occasion of pressure upon the Bank
would probably occur before the exchanges were rectified,
and then the crisis would be greater than that which we
had shrunk from meeting upon the present occasion. There
were serious and formidable difficulties hanging over this
country, and in warning the house of them he desired to
call their earnest attention to them. It was a subject of
vast and national importance, and should be considered in
a candid spirit without regard to prejudices of any kind,
but with a determination to contribute to the adoption of
a plan which would best maintain the character and inte-
rests of the country. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of EGLINTON could not perceive in what
degree a relaxing power, such as had just been exeacised
by the Government, could be said to be incompatiole
with the Bank Charter Act. The late Sir Robert
Peel, in sketching out his plan for that act, expressly
stated that he thought there should be a relaxing power
vested in the Government, and surely nothing could be
easier than to create such a power. He (Lord Egliuton)
was not one of those who favoured free trade in banking
and currency, but he certainly conceived that the system
propounded by the noble lord who had just spoken was the
most opposed to free trade that could be devised. He con-
sidered the Bank Charter Act of 1844 in one respect as a
beneficial measure, inasmuch as it tended to place a re-
striction upon the business of banking ; but the amount of
circulation limited by that act was not sufficient for the
wants of the population at the present time. (Hear.) He
thought also it would be a wise measure to assimilate the
English system to that of Scotland by enabling the Bank
to issue 11. notes. (A. laugh.) The noble lord had referred
to the drain upon the Bank of England by the Scotch
banks; bat there was no ground of Complaint upon that
score. A senseless run for gold took place in Scotland ; the
banks there did not ask the Bankof England to assist them,
but they sold out stock which they held, and then went to
the Bank of England and asked for that gold which was
their own. The noble lord had spoken of the effects which
would have arisen from a mainteuanceof the Bank Charter
Act in the crumbling to pieces of all unsound institutions,
but he (Lord Eglinton) believed that had not that relaxa-
tion taken !place when it did, all the commercial establish-
ments of the country must have given way. He thought,
however, that the Bank Act was an unsatisfactory condi-
tion. Parliament was called on to vote an indemnity for
relaxing that act, but they were not told for what time the
relaxationiasrt s
uoagreeb jeet,
unfortunately
endure.
proposition H e
fo hliat
ad
drinvited the house last
ythe
ew at
bh
out
u t to
o existing
enter evils not commissionadopt hi s u mo-
tion,on and he believed that had that inquiry taken placeth n
upon a wouldprnootrtaeted i
have aurigsueinry., Theybut
n ow oneer
e
could tell what events might
occur before t. e advent of
the next session of Parliament. Be thought a repeal of the
Bank Charter Act would be
hoped change for the worse, but he
that it would be modified in a manner that would
render it more conformable to the wants and interests of
the whole nation.
Lord MONTEAGLE thought that if his noble friend
who had spoken last but one, vin
opinion respecting the late
acta ofg propounded his own
nevertheless prepared to give an
uGovernment was
the proposed Bill of Indemnity the position approval to
placed himself wes certainly most co
xsittriaoonrp which he
His
noble friend admitted that every suspension
olnafthrye.
Bank
Charter Act had not only weakened the act itself, but had
weakened it in a manner most damaging to the best inter-
ests of the country. The noble lord did not leave e
country without a remedy, but the application of that
remedy must have crumbled and crushed our present sys-
tem to atoms, and would have stopped the Bank of Eng-
land, and ho ruin and destruction of many of the best-
conducted and most respectable establishments in the
country would have followed. The Bank Act was de-
fended on the principle of being the perfection of free-
trade iu money, but it was in fact a complete restriction
on all freedom. He objected to that act on ,the ground
that it applied one invariable rule to totally opposite and
ca , hear.) This he stated on
(II- r
distinct circumstances.
the authority of Mr. Huekisson , a man second to none in
experience and wisdom. To establish a rule which would
act were
act with the same stringency when the exchanges
against us as when they were favourable was to run the
risk of seeing the Bank drained of its last penny. It was
ho activity of it,
not the amount of circulation only, but t

which was to be taken into consideration. The present
system o,mi:flitted the error of dealing with the circulation
as if the same amount of money issued from the Bank
would alw iys have the same power. It was just as if in a
calculation in a matter of physics all idea of the moving
power was omitted and the weight only considered. It
was undeniable that on the only two occasions that the act
11.1 been br ,ught into operation it had deceived the expec-
tations of its framers. Parliament, he thought, would
scarcely be prepared to leave in the power of the Govern-
ment of the day to set aside at its own will and pleasure
the law upon which all the tights of property depended.
conchtsion, the noble lord expressed a hope that future
opportunities would arise for the ample discussion of the
subj ict, and asked for a copy of the correspondence which
had taken place with relation to it between the Chancellor
of the Exchenner and the Bank of England.
Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said that he had
already laid it upon the table.
Lard CAMPBELL, referring to the paragraph in the
Speech respecting the introduction of a measure for sim-
plifying and amending the laws of real property, said that
he wAs very anxious to see a bill which proposed to render
the transfer of land as easy as the transfer of the Three per
Cents. He had some curiosity to know how such a great
wonder was to be attained, and he hoped that the bill
would shortly be laid on the table.
Tile LORD CHANCELLOR said that the Speech did
not promise to introduce a measure which would render
the transfer of land as easy as the transfer of the Three per
Cents. All that the Speech said was, that measures would
be proposed for simplifying and amending the laws relating
to real property. Those measures were in course of prepa-
ration, but he could not undertake to say that they would
be laid on the table before the ordinary time.
In answer to the Earl of DERBY,

E.,rl GRANVILLE said that the Indemnity Bill would
be introduced into the other house to-morrow (this day),
when, if there were no opposition, it would he read a first
time, and the other stages would bo taken as rapidly as
possible
The Address was then agreed to, and the house ad-
journed at 11 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YEsTBRDAY.)
The house resumed at a quarter to 4 o'clock.
NEW MEMBERS.

The lion. Mr. Byng (for Midellesex), and Mr. W. J.
Fux ('or Oldham), took the oaths and their seats, having
been elected during the recess,
SESSIONAL ORDERS.
The usual sessional orders were read and agreed to.
NEW WRITS.
- - -

On the motion of Mr. HATTER, a now writ was or-
dered for the borough of Harwich in the room of Major
Warburton, deceased ; for Paisley, in the room of Mr.
A. Hastie, deceased : for the eastern division of the
county of Kent, in the room of Sir E. C. Daring, who
has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.
On the motion of Mr. KNIGHTLY, a new writ was
ordered for Northamptonshire, in the room of Mr.
O'Brien Stafford, deceased.

Oa the tni,tionof Mr. T:BARING, a new writ was
ordered for Thetford, in the room of the Hon. Francis
Baring, who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.

OUTLAWRY BILLS.
On the motion of Mr. WILSON, this bill was read a
first time.

BANK INDEMNITY.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave
notice that he should to-morrow move that the house
resolve itself into a committee of the whole house, with
a view of introducing a bill for indemnifying the directors
of the Bank of England, and also he should move after•
wards for the reappointment of the bank committee of
last session.

LIMITED LIABILITY.
Mr. HEADLAM gave notice that on Tuesday next
he should move a resolutiop, that the principle of un-
limited liability enforced on joint-stock banks by the
present laws confers a species of credit dangerous in its
character, prejudicial in its management, and otherwise
injurious to the interests of the public. (Hear.)