The Sun.
London, England, 1857-02-18 00:00:00

rank of admiral. A diminution of several years has thus
been effected, and the effect is that we have a number of
officers on the admirals' list who are more efficient than
they were 20 years ago. My hon. and gallant friend has
referred to the case of the retired commander who has
presented a petition this evening. The commission said :
" With regard to retirement the commanders have some
exclusive ground of complaint. They urge that there is no
provision in the establishment of Greenwich Hospital for
any officers of their rank, and further that there is no re-
tired list for the seniors of their class similar to the rank
of retired roar-admiral, as opened to the captains, or that
of the retired commander, as opened to the lieutenants.
For both of these grievances we should consider it expe-
dient that redress should be afforded.
" The advantages of Greenwich Hospital should be opened
to commanders, as they are to captains and lieutenants; and
we would therefore recommend that four commanders
should be added to the establishment of that institution.
" With respect to a rate of retired pay for commanders
we would suggest to your Majesty that the principle adopted
iu e reard to the firstloolieutenants should be applied to the
acommanders. These 100 lieutenants have the option of re-
tirement as commanders, with the lowest "rate of half-pay
of that rank, viz., Ss. 6d. a day. We would recommend
that a precisely similar indulgence should be extended to a
limited number of the senior commanders ; and we should
consider that it would be fair to allow 50 of the seniors of
that rank the option of receiving the retired rank of cap-
tain, with the lowest rate of half-pay allowed to a captain
—viz., 10s. 6d. a day.
" It is not in our view to reduce the numbers entitled to
the half-pay of 10s. a day as commanders by the proposed
boon. We contemplate the institution of a class of 50 re-
tired captains, with 10s. 6d. a day, to be followed by the
same number of commanders, viz., 150 at 10s. a day, as are
at present allowed."
These are the recommendations of Sir G. Cockburn,
Sir T. Hardy, and Sir C. Adams, and they were im-
mediately carried into effect. Four commanders were
added to the establishment of Greenwich Hospital, and
50 commanders retired with the rank of captain and
with the lowest rate of half-pay of a captain. In 1851
my right hon. friend (Sir F. Baring) doubled the num•
ber of retired commanders, and added 50 to the re-
served list, thus trebling the number of retired com-
manders, with the rank of captain. I thought the com-
manders would be still more benefited by increasing the
number of retirements, and last year I added 150 to
the retired list of commanders and 50 to the reserved
list. I thought it desirable, however, that the 50
should not be added at once, but the result will be that
there will be 250 retired naval commanders, instead of
50 as recommended by the commission, and there will
be'loo permanently on the reserved list of commanders.
The larger number has been raised to the 10a. 6d. lisp,
and the expense of the whole will be about 11,0001.
My hon. and gallant friend then comes to the new cadets
who have entered the navy. I took the liberty on a
previous occasion of stating that the entry of cadets
has not been unduly swelled, and that the establishment
of mates, midshipmen, and cadets is no less than 610
below the establishment : during the war the number
wes reduced. The number of lieutenants is not above
that prescribed by the orders in Council, but at present
the complaint is that the ships have plenty of lieute-
nants, but not enough mates. The number of cadets is
considerably short of what is wanted at this moment. It
must be remembered that a great number quit the ser-
vice in one way and another. It is not every boy who
takes a fancy to the navy who likes the service after he
has seen a little of it. The service is said to be unpopu-
lar, but I should hardly suppose this to be so from the
number of applications made to me, which place me in a
position of considerable difficulty in deciding upon them.
The cadets who entered in 1847 were 196, of whom 83
for one reason or another are no longer in the service. I
am, therefore, inclined to think that the entries in the
navy have been too much restricted, and certainly if
another war were to occur we should have a great defi-
ciency of subordinate officers, without whom it is almost
impossible to maintain proper order and discipline. It
does not appear to me that my hon. and gallant friend
has shown any ground for the appointment of the com-
mittee for which he asks. The questions relative to the
reserved list and the retired list were inquired into by a
very competent commission, which made recommenda-
tions, and the same subjects were referred to a commit-
tee of this house, under the presidency of the present
Duke of Somerset. The combined system recommended
by the commission and the committee has since been
fully carried out by the successive Boards of Admiralty,
and the result has been the gradual diminution of the
officers of the higher ranks to the numbers fixed by or-
ders in Council. Ido not think any better course could
be adopted for the attainment of the object which my
hon. and gallant friend seeks to effect, and it does not
appear to me that his motion is warranted by any of the
grounds he has urged upon the attention of the house.
Mr. LINDSAY said, in his opinion the navy ought
not to be subject to a First Lord of the Admiralty, who
was changed with every administration, but should be
under a permanent commander-in-chief, as the army was.
He should like to see a committee appointed to inquire
into that subject. Another subject that ought to be
inquired into was the large number of officers on the
active list compared with the number employed. In
July, 1855, when in the midst of the war with Russia,
and when we had a fleet in the Baltic and another in the
Black Sea, we had on the active list 21 full admirals,
and one was employed ; 27 vice-admirals, and two em-
ployed ; stiff officers 99, of whom 83 were employed ;
captains, 399, 137 employed ; commanders, 555, 192
employed ; lieutenants, 1,122, 883 employed. By this
1 system the country was put to great expense, and the
officers were made discontented.
Admiral WALCOTT was of opinion that the patron.
age which the First Lord of the Admiralty had was far
too great for any one man to have. He thought the
Board of Admiralty ought to consist of naval officers,
and he would make them responsible for the patronage.
Captain SCOBELL briefly replied. The First Lord
of the Admiralty had alluded to the report of the com-
mission ; but it sat in 1841, and now we were in 1857.
The right hon. baronet alluded to Sir George Cockburn ;
but he left a document stating that in his opinion the
Admiralty was far too political. It seemed that some-
times it required a man to die before he could speak the
truth. (Laughter.) He had not brought furward the
motion without having many cases to relate of officers
who had served from 40 to 60 years without obtaining
promotion. He had a great many letters, but would
not read them.
The house then divided—

Ayes 76
N0e5........................
The motion. was therefore lost.
BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS ACTS.
Viscount PAL NIERSTON said that doubts had been
expressed in the course of last year with regard to the
operation of the Bribery Acts. He thought, therefore,
that the beet step to adopt would be to appoint a com-
mittee, with a view to discover whether any parts of the
existing law were defective or susceptible of improve.
ment. He ..youll therefore move for a select committee
to inquire into time operation of the act 17 and 18 Viet.,
c. 102, intituled "An act to consolidate and amend the
laws relating to bribery, treating, and undue influence
at elections of members of Parliament."

Mr. WILLIAMS was glad that the noble lord was
about to refer the question to a select committee. It
was agreed that the measure referred to had been more
effective than any other plan that could be devised short
of the ballot, for the prevention of bribery and corrup-
tion. _

Mr. H. BERKELEY trusted the noble lord would
take care that the committee was so constituted as to
secure a full and fair inquiry into the act, which was ge-
nerally spoken of as a pntpous profession, but intended
to be inoperative. (gear.)
PETTY SESSIONS (IRELAND).
Mr. HORSMAN moved for leave to bring in a bill to
authorise the payment of clerks of petty sessions in Ire-
land by salaries instead of fees, and to amend "The
Petty Sessions (Ireland) Act, 1851."
Agreed to.
TURNPIKES ABOLITION (IRELAND).
Mr. HORSMAN moved for leave to bring in a bill to
discontinue the taking of toll on turnpike roads now
isting in Ireland, and to provide for the maintenance of
such roads as public roads, and for the discharge of the
debts due thereon, and for other purposes.
Agreed to.

EXTRA PAROCHIAL PLACES.
Mr. BOUVERIE moved for leave to bring in a bill
to provide for the relief of the poor in extra parochial
places.