The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-29 00:00:00

lutionary, it appeared to him that the Garibaldi Fund was
for the maintenance of the status quo of the Government of
Italy. And he really did not think that the matter was
one for the consideration of that house. (Cheers.)
After some further discussion, Mr. COCHRANE con-
sented to withdraw his motion.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord PALMERSTON said, I may be permitted, perhaps,
at this stage, to call the attention of the house to the state
of ;the public business at the present time. I trust that
hon. members will not think that I am taking an undue
liberty by adverting to this subject. We have now arrived
at the 28th of June, and there are, I believe, about 200 votes
of supply to be disposed of, and there are a great many bills
of very considerable importance which it would be very un •
desirable to drop in consequence of not being able to obtain
time sufficient for their discussion. With respect to these
votes of supply it is not, of course, for her Majesty's Go-
vernment to suggest to any hon. member to repress the
ob:ervations which they may think it their duty to make ;
but with respect to the calculation of time necessary to go
through these votes, I would remind the house that of the
last two votes which we obtained from the house, one occu-
pied the greater part of an evening's sitting, and if it should
be deemed necessary by gentlemen to give the same discus.
sion to other votes, it is obvious that a very considerable
time will be required to pass the remaining 200. (A laugh.)
I would suggest that on the motion for your leaving the
chair, sir, to go into committee of supply—with the excep-
tion of Fridays, which we, of course, understand to be given
up for amateur discussions—that honourable gentlemen
should refrain fr,:m interposing any motion unless upon
matters which are really of urgent importance, or
with respect to which they have reasonable ex-
pectations of coming to some practical result. ' I think
that mere statements of opinions on general questions might
be considered with convenience to the house. (Hear, hear.)

With respect to bills, we have upon the table several o
utility, and it is very desirable that they should be per
mated to pass. If, however, by prolonged discussions we
are precluded from proceeding with these bills until a later
period of the session, they will have to be abandoned, and
then the house as a body, and the Government as a part of
that body, are reproached with doing nothing, and allowing
the session to go by without passing any great measure of
importance, and that is certainly an injustice so far as the
Government is concerned, nor is it just with respect to the
aggregate of the house. (Hear, hear.) I trust, therefore,
that hon. members will be as sparing as possible in the mo-
tions which interfere upon the question for going into com-
mittee of supply.
Mr. BLACK cordially approved of the suggestion of the
noble lord, and hoped that it would receive the ready assent
of the house. There were upon the notice paper, on the last
day the house went into supply, no less than 29 motions, of
them eleven were by Irish members, three by one member,
and two other members had each two motions. The Irish
members certainly appeared to be most sedulous in looking
after the public interests. (A laugh.)
Mr. V. SCULLY denied that the Irish members had
occupied any undue share of the time of the house. He
thought the votes for supply ought to be all brought for-
ward before the 13th of May. The noble lord had taken
the opportunity of making this suggestion at a time when
there were no influential members of the Opposition pre-
sent to discuss the proposed arrangement with him (and at
the time the hon. member was addressing the house the
front Opposition benches were wholly unoccupied). The
hon. member proceeded to say that he had a motion on the
paper for that night of very great and urgent importance,
with respect to providing some mode of giving to the public
correct and authentic reports of the debates in that house.
Anything, said the hon. member, more absurd, or more
ridiculous, or more contradictory to what really happened,
than the reports in the newspapers of the last debate on
India, it was impossible for any human mind to conceive.
(A laugh.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—I cannot help thinking that a
great change has taken place of late years in the modes of
proceeding in this house. It is no doubt win accordance
with constitutional principles, that any member has the
right of bringing forward great and important questions
on going into committee of supply—that grievances should
be redressed before supply is granted. But that principle
has been made use of in order to introduce subjects of little
or no importance, and in consequence the very purpose of
supply is lost, and it is impossible that the subject of supply
can be fairly discussed under the present state of things.
The privilege is made use of not in order that some great
subject should be discussed, but every question and detail
which might be brought forward upon ordinary notice days,
perhaps not worth the notice of the house—(hear, hear)—is
discussed, and the valuable time of the house taken up to
no advantage. I have a strong imprersion on my mind
that the time must come when the good practice adopted
with respect to bills must be applied to proceedings of
supply, and that when the house has gone into committee,
and the order of the day is read, the Speaker should at
once leave the chair on the question of " progress." At the
early peri d of the session there are certain important con-
stitutional forms which the house has to go through, and
estimates cannot be voted until after the house has agreed
to a formal motion to grant supplies. I believe that on the
second day of the session, when the report to the address is
received, there might be immediately after a resolution that
supply should be granted to her Majesty, the estimates
might be produced, and laid on the table the following day,
and tho house would be in a position to proceed with their

consideration.
Lord HOTHAM entirely concurred in all that had been
said respecting the position in which the public business
was placed. On a former occasion he had suggested that
immediately on the meeting of Parliament the expenses
should be laid upon the table of the house, and he did not
think there would be any difficulty in carrying out his plan,
without interfering with the usual constitutional forms
adopted by the house with respect to the granting of sup-
plies to her Majesty. He complained of the conduct of sup-
ccssive Governments in delaying asking the house for the
larger votes for the army and navy until just before the ex-
piration of the Mutiny Act, and showing but little concern
for the smaller votes. If the estimates were 'reduced at
the commencement of the session, there would be very
much less difficulty in dealing with the motions with which
it was now the custom to encumber the question of going
into supply. He should view with great jealousy any at-
tempts to abridge the opportunities of discussion which the
forms of the house and the Constitution had given to the
representatives of the people. (hear.)
Mr. WHITE regretted to say that from the temper of the
house, and the flood of talk with which they were deluged,
he felt that some of the suggestions offered by the noble
lord at the head of the Government, or the noble lord the
Foreign Secretary, would be sufficient to put a stop to
what had now become an intolerable nuisance. With
respect to the constitutional privileges referred to by the
noble lord, he (Mr. White) would willingly waive them--
(cries of " No, no")—if by so doing he saw his way to
getting rid of the nuisance of so much talk, which all felt
to be a serious injury. He suggested that one day in the
week should be appropriated exclusively to the considera-
tion of the estimates.
Mr. BALL thought there were two remed;es which
might very easily be adopted for the suppression of exces-
sive talking, one of them was that the newspapers should
occasionally print verbatim the speeches of hon. members,
without any of that polish which was usually given to
them, and with all those faults of bad grammar which
hon. members were often compelled to hear. (A laugh.)
This, he believed, would put a damper upon some hon.
gentlemen who were notoriously guilty of occupying so
much of the time of the house in an unprofitable manner.
His second suggestion was that the house should make it
obligatory upon a member who spoke upon any question, to
remain in the house during the remainder, and until the
close, of the debate. (Oh, oh.)
SUEZ CANAL.

Mr. GRIFFITH corrected a misapprehension attributed
:o him on the subject of the Suez Canal.
SUPPLY—ARMY ESTIMATES.

The house then went into Committee of Supply on the
educational estimates connected with the army.
On the vote of £261,014 for education and scientific pur-

poses,
Mr. HOPE brought under consideration that part of the
vote which had reference to the College at Sandhurst, and
expressed a hope that the necessary papers would be pro-
duced and the fullest explanation given on the subject.
Mr. MONSELL protested strongly against an alteration
which had been made in the ago when the candidates should
be admissible, that alteration being from the age of 19 to
20. He thought they should be admissible from 16 to 20.
After a few words of explanation from Mr. BARING, the
subject dropped.
Mr. MAGUIRE called attention to the estimate for the
expenses of the Royal Hibernian Military School, Dublin,
and asked for explanations with respect to the constitution
and character of the staff of that establishment, having re-
lation to the religious faith of the boys educated therein.
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The charter provided that the child
opportunity of hav-
ing instruction in its own relimion.
Mr. WILLIAMS wished to know what were the duties
of the Presidents of Council of military education. Hedid
not mid erst and what were the duties of schoolmistresses in
connection with regiments. The soldiers, no doubt, had
daughters, but he did not know that they were educated by
schoolmistresses connected with the regiments.
Colonel STEWART explained that there were infant
and other schools in all the garrison towns, and even in the
s
camps at Aldershott, Shorncliffo, and elsewhere, and the
of trained schoolmistresses was of great
service to the children of the soldiers.
Captain JERVIS complained that the officers of artillery
were compelled to go through more severe examinations
than were required for Sandhurst.
Mr. MONSELL deprecated raising anything like a
jealous feeling between the Engineers and officers of the
Artillery.
Mr. T. G. BARING said that in the last year for which
the returns were made up there were 12,000 children of
there -receivitla ecNcAtiog ii 4 t4l arpay, alto OW eheatio,