The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-06 00:00:00

templated the volunteer corps becoming a permanent force.

If these corps turn out as useful as I hope and expect, they
will become part of our permanent establishment—(hear,
hear)—but when I say that I do not mean that for 20 or
even 100 volunteers a single regular soldier will be die -
placed. (Hear, hear.) We are willing to make as perfect
a soldier as we can of every man who is willing to take our
pay and subject himself to our discipline. (Hear, hear.)
In this country, however, there is very little military spirit.
There is a martial, but very little military spirit, although
even in this house a great change has taken place since the
militia was called into existence. Formerly the army esti-
mates were discussed very coldly, almost the only speakers
being a few military officers ; but now we see how much
the existence of the militia has spread a military feeling
and imparted military knowledge to gentlemen of influ-
ence in their respective localities. What we want now
is to get the middle classes imbued with an interest in our
means of defence, and I think the volunteer corps will be
useful in doing that. (Hear, hear.) The late Secretary
for War has doubts, on account of the state of our stores,
whether it was wise to issue rifles to these corps. If the
present state of our stores had been permanent, I should
have hesitated, but seeing there is a rapid increase every
week, and that neva year our stores will be much enlarged,
I thought that instead of allowing our arms to remain use-
less it would be better to have men behind them engaged in
military exercises. (Hear.) If we had asked the volunteer
corps to arm and clothe themselves, and pay for their own
drill and musket instruction, and nothing for them in re-
turn but put them under military law, the effect would
have been discouraging in the extreme. We must have
some influence over them, and unless there is somt., equity
in the dealings between us, we cannot expect them to pay
due deference to the military authorities. Such, at all
events, were the reasons which induced us to offer arms, as
far as our means would permit. (Hear.) I have been asked
what we would do for them in case of war. In case of war,
of course, they would be armed ; but those who point to
the times of George 111. ought to recollect that circum-
stances are very different now from what they were then.
People talk in a very loose way about invasion, but at that
time it stared us in the face in the practical shape of a large
camp within reach of our telescopes, and we were obliged
to call out every man, and both dress and arm them.
At present my only fear is that the volunteers will be rather
too fond of uniforms ; at all events, we need be under no
apprehension that in case of war they may be improperly
dressed. (Hear.) As to raising them in companies or
battalions, there is a broad distinction to be observed. In
thinly populated districts it would be impossible to raise
them in battalions, for you may depend upon it that men
engaged in the ordinary pursuits of life will not consent to
attend drill or practice at a distanCe from their homes.
There is a question as to Whether these volunteer corps
should be formed into battalions or companies. In case of
war you must form them into battalions, and therefore it
will be a great advantage if some of them have a knowledge
of battalion drill. There will be great facilities for this inlarge
towns, where you can raise a sufficient number of compantes
to form a battalion ; and it may be accomplished in the man-
ner which I to-day suggested to a deputation of gentlemen
who are raising several companies, and wish to have them
formed into a battalion. I explained to them the
difficulties which attended that course, but said, "If you
are going to raise eight or ten companies let the gentlemen
who have the management of them combine, let them all
have the same uniform and the same code of regulations,
and they can then at any moment be formed into a batta-
lion without the slightest difficulty or expense." (Hear.)
I have stated that the Government are very anxious to pro-
mote the formation of these corps. As auxiliaries I believe
they will be most useful. (Hear.) If ever they are made
a substitute for a regular force, I believe they will be most
mischievous. (Hear.) The gallant officer says that without
discipline a population is uzeless ; but is not that a reason
for attempting to drill them while you can ? (Hear.) Every
one says that you must keep up a large store of muskets—
so many for the regular army, so many for the militia em-
bodied and disembodied, and, beyond this, 20,000 or 30,000
stand of arms for arming the population ; but, if you are
going to arm the population surely it is wise to give them
as much knowledge of the duties as you can. For all these
reasons the Government feel most grateful to the gentle-
men who have undertaken the formation of these corps.
They have done so at the sacrifice of much time and often
of lucrative employments, and I think that the country
owes them a debt of gratitude for the exertions which they
are making. (Hear, hear.)l I trust that in this house
members will not press too hard upon the Government with
the different views and theories which they may entertain.
I think that we have got into a good groove, and that by
steadily pursuing it we may effect much good, especially
by the formation of volunteer artillery corps. Not only have
you now in position guns which would require 38,000 men
to work, but you have every day an augmentation of bat-
teries requiring additional men. A volunteer artillery corps
is not merely an auxiliary ; it becomes a substitute for the
Royal Artillery, which can be employed better and more
effectually elsewhere. For these reasons the Government
are anxious to give every encouragement to such forces. In
bringing forward this motion my hon. friend has done a
public service; but as there seems to be a great unanimity
upon this subject, I hope he will not press it to a division.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. PALK replied briefly, remarking that therighthon.
gentleman opposite had not answered the question upon
which, most of all, he wished for reply, viz., the formation
of volunteer artillery corps in undefended districts. He
would not notpress the subject any further, however, being
quite 'willing to leave it to the judgment of the Government,
and therefore with the permission of the house, he should
withdraw his motion.
The motion was then withdrawn.
THE COURT OF ADMIRALTY.

Mr. HADFIELD moved for leave to bring in a bill to
enable serjeants, barristers-at-law, attorneys, and solicitors,
to practice in the High Court of Admiralty. One member
of the Government (Mr. C. P. Villiers) he knew was in fa-
vour of such a measure, and in principle it had already been
agreed to two years ago in the Probate Act, and had been
thrice affirmed, while the hon. and learned gentleman, the
Attorney-General, approved of its general principle. The
hon. and learned gentleman stated that he-did not intend to
confer compensation on the proctors in reference to the pro-
posed change.
The motion having been seconded,
Sir G. C. LEWIS (Flome Secretary) said the opinions of
the hon. gentleman were no doubt well founded, and it was
a question which would be properly considered by her Ma-
jesty's Government. There was only one matter of fact in
which the hon. gentleman had, he thought, understated his
Case, namely, that wherein he suggested that rewards to the
amount of £169,000 should be given to proctors, whereas in
his opinion, it was £169,000 a-year, and with that he was
quite willing to give his assent to the introduction of the
bill. (Hear.)
Leave was given accordingly to bring in the bill.
FOREIGN ENLISTMENT ACT.
Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR moved for leave to introduce
a bill to amend the Foreign Enlistment Act, so far as it re-
lates to transports and storeships. The act was only in-
tended to apply to privateers, and its application to store-
ships was productive alike of difficulty and inkastice.
Sir G. C. LEWIS observed that the pres-..ent was an in-
opportune moment to alter the law, which had just been
appealed to by a Royal proclamation, the provisions of
which had been respected by each succeeding Administra-
tion since 1819. He therefore cad not Teel justified in assent
the proposed bill would
i n gmtro. tßhoe
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render the preservation of neutrality more difficult, and
would lead to serious contraventions of international law.
Mr. COLLIER would not have consented to the passing
of the act now sought to be altered, but at the same time
argued that the 'present was not a fit time for altering it.
Mr. WRIG HreTltvi
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Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR withdrew his motion.
MEMBERS ACCEPTING OFFICE.
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change of office.
Mr. A. SMITH said this motion was formerly negatived
by a considerable majority. At the present moment they
were experiencing the inconveniences of this law, but it was
a question that must be considered on principle. This bill,
if passed, would enable
persons to accept office under com-
pletely different circumstances from those under which they
were chosen, and the effect of that might be that an entirely
different policy might be adopted by the Government from
that advocated
by the nation. He should give this motion
a most decided negative.
Mr. INGHAM said there was now a balance of autho-
rity on this question, and therefore it was fair and reasonable
to bring the question before the house. He would support
the bill.
The house then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion 5l
Against it
Majority against the motion —2
TURNPIKE AND BRIDGE TOLLS.
Mr. ALCOCK moved that an address be presented to
her Majesty, praying thr4 she will be graciously pleased to
issue a Royal Commission to inquire into and report as to
the best means of al-Jolishing the tolls on the turnpike roads
and bridges in F:e.gland and Wales.
Sir. G. C. LEWIS urged the great improvement which
had of late years taken place in the management of turn-
pike trusts, and the many interests involved,
as a reason for
opposing the motion.
Mr. HOPE said it was very easy to abolish tolls, but not
easy to establish a rate instead.
Mr. CRAUFURD proposed that the wording of the
Scotch commission should be taken in place of that of the
present motion.
Mr. B. CARTER considered the present motion prema-
ture till the result of existing commissions was made known.
The motion was negatived without a division.
CHURCH RATE COMMUTATION BILL.
Mr. ALCOCK obtained leave to bring in a bill for the
voluntary commutation of church rates.
FISHERIES REGULATION.
Mr. HOP WOOD obtained leave to bring in a bill for the
more effectual preservation and increase of the breed of
salmon and fish of the salmon kind, andfor the better regu-
lating the fisheries in the rivers of England.
ARMY (HALF-PAY OFFICERS).
Colonel NORTH moved that this house will to-morrow
resolve itself into a committee to consider of a,hulrible
address to her Majesty, that she will be graciously pleased to
grant the half-pay of £4OO a-year, unattached pay, to cer
tam general officers who obtained promotion upon half-pay
under the provisions of the general order of the 23d day of
April, 1826, who have since become General officers, and
are now receiving only the hall-pay of their regimental rank,
and to assure her Majesty that this house will make good
the same.
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said he could not accede to
the motion of the gallant officer, who, he thought, had
somewhat misunderstood the order to which he referred.
These officers were subject to the ordinary regulations
which existed at the period alluded to, as well as before and
since. There must le a service of six years as a field
officer, whereas some of these gentlemen had not done a
day's service since 1826, when they went on half-pay.
Moreover there was an express stipulation with respect
to their 'widows, which, by the manner in which it was
expressed, showed that no other advantages were to be
expected. No man can get £4OO a-year, or £1 ss. a day,
as he said, unless he was engaged as a field officer for six
years. _ _

General PEEL took a different view of the subject from
his right hon. friend. As to his being obliged to serve six
years as a field officer, that was not the construction he
put upon it. On what principle, he would ask, could the
widow of a major-general receive his pension, when he
himself did not enjoy his real pay while he lived, in conse-
quence of the general order to which allusion had been
made ?
Colonel NORTH said he felt so strongly upon the sub-
ject that he should take the sense of the house on it.
Colonel DUNNE complained that those officers were
induced to take a rank, which they accepted in the full

confidence that their half-pay would be continued in the
same proportion.
The house then divided, when the numbers were—
For the resolution . 22
Against it

Majority —2o
The motion was then negatived.
Sir R. FERGUSON moved for leave to bring in a bill
to facilitate internal communication in Ireland, by means
of tramroads and tramways.
Agreed to.
CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION ACT.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE moved for leave to bring in a
bill to repeal so much of the Emancipation Act of 1829 as
prohibited Roman Catholics from holding the office of Lord
Chancellor of Ireland.

Sir C. LEWIS gave his assent cordially to the motion,
and stated that he would support the second reading of the
bill.

The house having gone into committee, a resolution was
passed authorising the introduction of the bill, and it was
subsequently introduced.
The Trial by Juries (Scotland) Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The new bills ordered to be introduced in the course of
the evening were read a first time, and the house adjourned
at half-past twelve o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIOA S.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-JULY 5.
MEMBERS ACCEPTING OFFICE.

Motion made and Question put, " That leave be given to
bring in a Bill to alter and amend the Act 6 Anne, c. 7,
with respect to Vacating Seats in Parliament on accept-
ance of Office."—The House divided ; Ayes 51, Noes 53.

AYES -51.

Barwell, J. Gordon, Capt. Pollard urquhartW
Baines, E. Herbert, S. Pritchard, John
Baring, Thos. Geo. Horsfall, T. B. Ridley, G.
Baxter, W. E. Hunt, G. W. Robertson, D.
Berkeley, F. Hugessen, E. K. Russell, Hastings
Black, Adam Laing, S. Smith, Abel
Bonham-Carter, J. Leathern, W. Somerville, Sir W.
Brand, H. B. Lewis, Sir G.C., Bt. Stuart, Major W.
Buller, J. W. Lyall, G. Warre, J. A.
Bury, Viscount M'Cann, J. Watlington, J. W.
Campbell, W. F. Massey, W. N. Whitbread, S.
Cave S. Miller, William White, Luke
Clive, George Mundy, William. Wilson, J.
Dunbar, Sir Wm. North, F. Wood, Rt Hu. Sir C.
Dunlop, A. M. Northcote, Sir S. H. Wyvill, M.
Evans, T. W. Paget, C. TELLERS.
Ewart, J. C. Peel, Gen. Wrightson, W. B
Ferguson, Sir R. A. Philips, J. H. Ingham, R.

NOES-53.
Alcock, T. Gladstone, Capt. O'Connell, D.
Angerstein, W. Greaves, Edward Pease, H.
Bazley, Thomas Greene, Capt. J. Powys, L. P.
Beecroft, G. S. Griffith, C. D. Quinn, Peter
Bowyer W. Hadfield, Geo. Rogers, John J.
Brady,John Hodgson, K. D. Rothschild,Baron L.
Bridges, Sir 8., Bt. Hood, Sir A. Roupell, W.
Briscoe, J. I. Hopwood, J. T. Seymour, Digby
Buchanan, W. Hornby, W. H. Sibthorpe, G. T. W.
Collins, T., jun. Howes, Edward Steuart, A.
Craufurd, E. H. J Humberstone, P. S. Sullivan, M.
Cubitt, Ald. Lacon, Sir E. Trelawny, Sir J. S.
Davey, R. Lever, John 0. Vandeleur, Col.
Dodson, John G. Long, R. P. Way, Arthur E.
Douglas, Sir C. Maguire, J. F. Williams, W.
Dunne, Col. Monk, C. J.
Gard, R. S. Monson, W. J.
Gavin, Major Morris, D.
Gilpin, Colonel North, Col.

TELLERS.
Ayrton, A. S.
Smith, A.

MR. G. IL RYLAND.

Motion made and Question put, " That a Select Committee
be appointed to inquire into the arrangements under
which Mr. G. H. Ryland was induced to resign the
patent office of Clerk of the Council in Canada ; whether.
that step was taken under a distinct guarantee from the
Imperial Lord High Commissioner Lord Sydenhara
aud, if so, whether that guarantee has ever been fully
and fairly carried out by the Imperial Government."--
The House divided; Ayes 20, Noes 235.

AYES-20.
Beamish, F. B. Hennessy, John Ridley, George
Brady, John Kekewich, S. Vance, John
Crufurd, Edw. Ker, David Whalley, George
Ellice, Rt. Hon. E. Maguire,.J. F. Williams, W.
Ellice, E. O'Connell, Capt. D.
Elphinstone, Sir J. Paxton, Sir J. TELLERS.
Esmonde, John Pease, Henry Mr. Gregory
Foley, Henry; Pollard Urquhart W Mr. Daniel