The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-09 00:00:00

ITALIAN AFFAIRS,

Lord STRATFORD DE REDCLIFFE said that he had
been prepared to redeem the pledge which he gave when he
announced his intention to bring under their lordships' de-
liberation the correspondence with reference to the affairs of
Italy so graciously presented to both houses of Parliament
by her Majesty's command at the beginning of this session.
He was aware that he had undertaken a very considerable,
not to say arduous, task. He was also aware that there
were objections to the course which he intended to adopt ;
but upon the whole he thought there were countervailing
advantages, and he made up his mind to incur some risk, not
doubting that their lordships' discretion and judgment would
counteract any tendency towards error on his part, and that
on the whole advantage would arise from discussion of points
connected with this correspondence. It had appeared to him
that the opinion of independent members of the Legislature,
unfettered by any party, thus going forth to the country,
would have had a very salutary effect in the event of the re-
newal of the negotiation. But an event of great importance
had come to the knowledge of the public that morning, an
event which would have at once the salutary effect of arrest-
ing that awful effusion of blood which must be so deeply de -
plored by every person in this country, and he hoped also on
the Continent—(hear)—and which he prayed might be fol-
lowed by the conclusion of a peace. Under these circum-
stances it was plain that the public discussion of this cor-
respondence might lead to an expression of opinions which
would be inconvenient at the present moment. (Hear, hear.)
He had had the opportunity of ascertaining that several
friends of his, in whose opinion he had great confidence,
viewed the matter in the same light, and would willingly
find that he had taken the part of abandoning the motion
for the present. (Hear, hear.) In using the term "aban-
doning," he did not mean to give up the motion absolutely.
Re should leave it for the present on their lordships•
table, reserving to himself the right of recurring to it
at a later period if the circumstances of Europe should
lead him to think it would be advisable to do so. It
was proper that he should state that the responsibility of
this motion, if he had persevered with it, was entirely his
own. It was not the result of any concert with the parties
on either side of the house. Indeed he was not sorry to
have the occasion of stating that he had no distinct con-
nexion with any party. No man was more deeply pene-
trated with a sense of the high abilities for government
and the personal qualifications of his noble friend opposite,
and of many of those by whom he was supported, but his
duty was to give way to no personal feelings, but to form a
fair and equitable judgment of what was best for the public
advantage. He recognised in the noble lords and the right
hon. gentlemen who now directed the Government a com-
bination of talents and administrative ability which was
, well calculated at this time to command the confidence of
1 the country. He recognised in them an Administration
which was in harmony with the constitutional requirements
of the representative House of Commons, and one which
would, after all, move in the same line of foreign policy,
according to their own language, as their predecessors, and
the members of which on the great internal question of
Reform had entitled themselves to the credit of more cone
sistency, though he might be allowed to say their claim was
not entirely perfect in that respect. He earnestly hoped
that if negotiations for peace were to be the result of the
existing armistice the Government would be found at their
posts and would claim their right to be associated in these
negotiations. The interests of the country and of the world
required it. Looking equally to the treaties which had
been placed in such great jeopardy by recent occurrences,
to the position of Austria as an integral portion of the ba7-
lance of power, or to the condition of the great Mediterra-
nean peninsula which had at all times been the seat of a
glorious civilisation, and which commanded from the people
in this country, especially on account of their education, a
large amount of gratitude and respect, there was every rea-
son for earnestly hoping that the Government would take
their proper position in the negotiations to provide for the
great interests which had been so nearly compromised. He
abstained purposely from any observations which would
lead to any discussion, or might seem to be an attack on
those who had been concerned in the conduct of the late'
negotiations, either in this country or out of it. No doubt
there would be no difficulty in finding in those negotiations
matter for censure, and there were many things in them
which caused anxiety or even apprehension ; but he had
made it a rule to himself not to touch on any topic of that
description. He-could not forget the circumstances which
preceded and accompanied the treaties of 1815, to which,
notwithstanding their errors and their deficiencies, was
mainly to be attributed the maintenance of peace for 45
years. Although on more than one occasion they had suf-
fered some injury—in the case of Belgium, where, however,
the alteration was by common consent—in the case of an
excluded dynasty—in the case of Poland and Cracow—by
the hand of tyrants—(hear, hear)—after all they had not
yet been cast aside. They were still subjects of appeal from
every country; they were the title-deeds of many extensive
territorial possessions ; they were, in fact, the title-deeds to
which Sardinia still held Genoa, as well as those by which
the incumbency of Austria upon Italy was established.
They were still entitled to our respect, inasmuch as they
were the safeguards of those achievements in civilisation
which were the rewards for all that Europe had suffered in
the early part of this century ; they made the abolition of
the slave trade part and parcel of the great European law,
and consecrated the waters of the world, whether flowing
through separate States or extending in boundless seas, to
the uses of an unfettered and almost unquestioned naviga
tion. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that the present armistice
might lead to the commencement of negotiations, and that
the Government would feel how much our character de-
pended on our taking a proper place at them.
Lord BROUGHAM—I put it to the noble lord whether
he is not doing the very thing which we all wish to avoid—
(laughter)—and the fear of which has induced him to with-
draw his motion. (Hear, hear.) Let the truce extend from
the north of Italy to this house, and let us abstain altogether,
for some weeks at least, from touching on the question of
Foreign policy. (Hear, hear.)
Lord STRATFORD DE REDCLIFFE was extremely
sorry that anything had fallen from him which should have
induced his noble and learned friend to stop him, but he
was at a loss to know what it was. [Lord Brougham—You
are leading to a debate.] That certainly was not his inten-
tion, but if a debate did follow, the noble lord might take
his part in it, and add one more to the number of those dis-
plays of eloquence to which they had so often listened with
delight. He believed that he had accomplished the tempo-
rary object he had in drawing their lordships' attention to
these treaties, and expressing a hope that England would
take her place in the negotiations at the proper time, but
nothing was further from his intention than to say any-
, thing which might in the slightest degree embarrass her
Majesty's Government. He thought he had abstained from
I saying anything which might call forth the opinion of
others with respect to the line which the Government
might take in the negotiations. He had only, therefore to
thank their lordships for the kind attention with which
they had heard him, and to remind them that in with-
drawing Ilis motion he reserved to himself the right of re-
newing it at any future time. (Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of NORMANBY (who spoke with his back
to the gallery) was understood to say that, whenever the
motion was brought again before the house, he should state
the reasons why he regretted that the conduct of these
negotiations should be placed in the hands of the noble lord
at the head of the Government. He should watch with
scrupulous anxiety the line which that noble lord would
take in these negotiations. He for one declined to give any
pledge against speaking on any subject connected with our
foreign policy when the motion came again before their
lordships. (Hear, hear.) He rather hoped than trusted that
the armistice would lead to something, and the circum-
stances which had come to our knowledge within the
last few days as to a certain circular issued by the Foreign
Minister of France induced him to thick that it would
be very necessary, whoever conducted the Government
of this country, to watch the terms which might be pro-
posed. It would seem, from the fact of no official com-
munication having passed betweed the French and the
English Governments on the subject, that the French Go-
vernment, at this moment were confident that, whatever
terms they might propose would be readily adopted by the
English Government.
Earl GRANVILLE—On the part of her Majesty's Go-
vernment, and I may almost venture to say on the part of
the whole house, I beg to thank my noble friend behind me
for the course he has taken in withdrawing the motion which
he had placed on your lordships' table. (Hear.) Even before
the intelligence we received this day, I certainly had mis-
givings as to the propriety of discussing that motion at pre-
sent. At the same time I perfectly admit that, when a noble 1
lord like my noble friend behind me, one of the most emi-
nent diplomatists of this country and of Europe, sees that
his place in this assembly gives him an opportunity of speak-
ing upon a most important question bearing upon foreign
affairs, he may feel it both his wish and his duty to express
himself. *Whatever may be thought of the intelligence we
have received this day, there cannot be the slightest doubt
that though that message does not give conclusive proof
that the blessed consummation of peace will be arrived at,
yet it does give us this very satisfactory assurance, that the
two Emperors of France and Austria feel the necessity of
endeavouring to come to some arrangements which will
prevent a further effusion of blood. (Hear, hear.) lam per-
fectly sure that your lordships would deprecate any act on
our part, or any word from our lips which would in the
slightest degree do mischief in the present circumstances of
the case—(hear, hear)—and I therefore most thoroughly
concur in, and at the same time offer my thanks to the noble
lord for the course which he has taken. I think your lord-
ships will feel that I am justified in not following the noble
lord throughout the speech which he has made, not only
because in my opinion it would be indiscreet in the present
crisis for any individual member of the house to ells-
' cuss this subject, but because it would be an ab-
solute dereliction of duty on the part of any
members of her Majesty's Government, as faithful ser-
vants of her Majesty and of her Crown, to take part in a
discussion which could have no good effect, and which, I
am quite sure, might create difficulties abroad, and place
ourselves in a disadvantageous position when the time came
for exercising that influence which I trust will be exercised
in settling this great question in the most advantageous
manner. (Cheers.)
Their lordships then adjourned at 20 minutes to six
o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
NEW MEMBER.
Col. KINGSCOTE took the oaths and his seat on his re-
election for West Gloucester, vacant by his appointment to
the Royal Household. •
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Lords' amendments to the following bills were c4n-
sidered, and the bills were ordered for third reading:—
Great North of Scotland Railway; Reading and Hatfield
Road; Kingston-up_on-Thames Gas; London and North-
Western Railway (Edgehill to Garston); North-Eastern

Railway (Nidd Valley Branch) ; -and Ringwood, Christ-
church, and Bournemouth.
ROMAN CATHOLICS OF NORTHUMBERLAND.
Mr. HUTT presented a petition from a body of Roman.
Catholic gentlemen, comprising nearly all the Roman Ca-
tholic landed proprietors of Northumberland, that Roman
Catholic charities may no longer be exempted from the
jurisdiction of the Charity Commissioners ; but that under
certain arrangements, they may be made subject to the pro-
visions of the Act 16 and 17 Victoria, chapter 137.
BRIBERY AT NORWICH.

Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from the corporation
of Norwich, setting forth that bribery had been extensively
practised at the late election for that borough, that money
was raised by influential persons in London, and forwarded
to Norwich for that purpose, and that money was alsol
raised in Norwich, and, prayed for a speedy and impartia
investigation into all the circumstances, and for the intro-
duction of a measure into Parliament for the more effectual
suppression of corruption at elections. The hon. member
stated that if the inquiry on the petition previously pre-
sented with reference to the election at Norwich was not
" searching and impartial," he would hold himself at
liberty to bring the subject forward again, and he added,
three-fourths of the corporation were present when the pe-
tition was agreed to.
OATHS OF CATHOLIC MEMBERS.
Mr. MAGUIRE asked whether it was intended by
Government to introduce any measure for the repeal or Mo-
dification of the oaths now taken by Catholic members ; and
if so, when they would be prepared to lay such measure on
the table ?

Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD said it was not the inten-
tion of the Government to introduce any measure on the
subject at present, because by reference to what had oc-
curred in .previous sessions, it was not likely that it would.
be carried at present. It was intended, however, in the
next session to bring in a bill for the modification of the
oath.

LANDLORDS AND TENANTS IN IRELAND.
In reply to Mr. BRADY,
Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD said the Government would
not introduce any bill during the present session for the
alteration of the statutes which regulate the relations be-
tween landlords and tenants in Ireland, in consequence; of
the session being so far advanced. However, during the
recess, the Irish Government would devote their attention
to the subject, and he hoped they would be able to bring
forward a bill or bills that would satisfactorily settle the
question.
COASTING TRADE IN AMERICA.

Mr. D. SEYMOUR asked the Vice-President of tile
Board of Trade whether the American Government regard
the trade by sea between New York and California as a
coasting trade, when the goods are unshipped at Aspinwall
and carried across the Isthmus of Panama to be re-shipped
for California ; and, if so, whether it is proposed by her
Majesty's Government to address any remonstrance upon
the subject to the Government, at Washington; and also
whether another vessel had not been recently seized by the
American Government?

Mr. WILSON said, with regard to the latter question,
it was unfortunately true that such seizure had taken place.
A British vessel had been seized by the American Govern-
ment for carrying a cargo of guano, which was decided to
be an infringement of the law. An understandinc, Had
been come to between the Governments of this country and
the United States when the question was arranged, and it
was decided that British ships in America should enjoy the
same privileges as were conferred on American vessels in
England, with the exception of the coasting trade. That
latter question was one of very extensive signification lin
the United States, but they were in communication with
the Government of that country on the subject, which he
hoped would lead to a satisfactory termination of the mat-
ter in dispute.

FINANCIAL STATEMENT.
In reply to an Hon. Member,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the time when he should make his financial statement mdst
in a great measure depend-on hon. members themselves.
It was the practice to postpone the financial statemeint
until the army and navy estimates were agreed to, whibh
would necessarily be delayed if hon. members pressbd
forward their motions. He would suggest that these *-
lions should be postponed until the estimates were grant 4d,
and then hon. members would have sufficient time to bring
them forward.
ROMAN CATHOLIC CHARITIES.

Mr. KINNAIRD asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department on what plea the Government had post-
poned the introduction of a bill (promised so far back its
1853), to place Roman Catholic charities under the super-
intendence of the Charity Commissioners, from whose con-
trol they are now especially exempt ; and what course they
proposed to adopt regarding them.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said he could not state what led io
the postponement alluded to, but the present Government
had the question under consideration, with a view to re-
medy the defect complained of.