The Sun.
London, England, 1861-03-06 00:00:00

HUNGARIAN NOTES.

Mr. WHITE asked the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs whether the alleged manufacture of notes in this
country, in the name of Hungary, had,been brought to the
notice of her Majesty's Government by the Government of
Austria; and what steps had been taken thereupon by the
order or advice of her Majesty's Government f
Lord J. RUSSELL was understood to say that her Ma-
jesty's Government had their attention drawn to the sub-
ject of the manufacture of notes by Kossuth, which bore
the stamp of the Royal Crown of Hungary, by the Quern-

meat of Austria. The matter had been referred to the
law officers of the crown, who gave their opinion that the
issue of these notes was illegal, but that it would be impos-
sible to procure a conviction in case of indictment.
INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS.
In reply to Mr. HANBURT,
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that the bill for amending the
InduArial Schools Act had been deferred until Government
had received a report of the Commission on Education.
TELEGRAPHIC CABLE BETWEEN ALVER-
STOKE AND RYDE, AND MALTA AND ALEX-
ANDRIA.
Mr. LIDDELL asked the Secretary to the Admiralty
why no answer had been given to a report sent is by Mr.
Piggott to the Board of Admiralty cf the result of a trial
of his telegraphic cable laid down between Alverstoke and
Ryde on the 20th of June last ?
Mr. CONINGHAM asked for some information relative
to the telegraphic communication between Malta and Alex-

Lord C. PAGET said that the Admiralty had nothing
whatever to do with the subject to which the last question
referred. 'With teferenco to the other questiox, he would
state what had occurred. Mr. Pigott, in April last,
applied to the Admiralty for permission to lay down the
line of his proposed telegraphic communication. The Ad-
miralty objected to his carrying such line across the harbour
of Portsmouth, but consented to its being laid down be-
tween Alverstoke and Ryde. A letter had been since
received from Mr. Pigott, stating that the undertaking
had been completely successful; but the Board of Admi-
ralty had nothing whatever to do in respect to that com-
munication, except to acknowledge its receipt.
SIR BALDWIN WALKER.
Lord C. PAGET—I may, perhaps, be permitted to take
this opportunity of informing the house that the Avon was
sent out this morning to endeavour to intercept Sir Baldwin
"Walker. (Laughter.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON—After the announcement which
he has just made, perhaps the noble lord will allow me to
put to him two questions. First, whether it is true that
no telegraph was sent from the Admiralty till half-past 11
o'clock to-day? (Hear, hear.)l Secondly, whether the
Avon is not reckoned cno of the slowest ships in her Ma-
jesty's service? (Laughter, and hear, hear.)
Lord C. PAGET—It is quite true that the orders were
sent ont this morning, but it must be ramembered that the
Avon sailed from Devonport, and that we had news of Sir
Baldwin Walker having put out from Yarmouth roads,
where he had taken shelter, this morning. It is quite
possible, therefore, that the Avon may be able to cut him
off. (Laughter.)
MASTERS AND OPERATIVES.

Mr. MACKINNON obtained leave to bring in a bill for
establishing equitable councils of conciliation between
masters and operatives.
COLONIAL MILITARY EXPENDITURE.

Mr. A. MILLS moved for a select committee on colonial
military expenditure, to inquire and report whether any,
and what, alterations might be advantageously adopted in
regard to the defence of the British dependencies, and the
proportions of cost of such defence as now defrayed
from imperial and colonial funds respectively. The hon.
member, in a speech of some length, condemned the policy
pursued by this country in reference to the subject, which
he contrasted unfavourably with other European States.
He contended that instead of this country being requested
to expend millions annually in providing for the defence of
our foreing possessions, these colonies should be induced to
become self-reliant and independent as far as defences were

concerned.
Mr. MARSH seconded the motion, as he considered a
committee would be desirable in investigating many details
in connection this subject. •
Mr. C. FORTESCUE said that the motion of his
hon. friend (Mr. Mills) was not regarded by the
Government in a hostile light. On the contrary,
as far as he was concerned, he highly approved
of the result arrived at by the motion of the honourable
member, but he differed with him as to the measures of
attaining it. He referred to the reports of the Depart.
mental Commission instituted by the desire of General
Peel during the administration of the late Government,
which were an utter failure, so far as affording Go-
vernment any means of practically dealing with this
question. The essence of these reports was that the
defence of the colonies should depend on local corps without
any assistance from the Imperial country. But the fact
was that the presence of British troops was desirable in our
dependencies in maintaining a good feeling with the natives,
and affording them a greater sense of security. The dis-
cipline and the esprit de corps of a local army were
necessarily inferior to those of imperial troops.
As regarded the argument of fostering a feeling of
self-reliance on the part of the colonists, he had no doubt
that that feeling would manifest itself in moments of dan-
ger. He referred to Australia, and other English colonies,
to show that in cases of emergency they would supply the
necessary means of self-defence.
Mr. BAXTER thought the house was deeply indebted to
the hon. gentleman for having brought this subject before
the consideration of the house. He had done so in a. very
moderate speech, without passing censure on the present or
any preceding Government. It seemed to hies desirable that
they should obtain more full and explicit information on the
subject. He had listened with great attention to the speech
of the Under Secretary for the Colonies, and he must ex-
press his regret and surprise that Government should op-
pose the motion. The point taken by the Under Secretary
was that the committee would interfere with the proN 'ince
of her Majesty's Government. He gave them an assurance
that the noble duke at the head of the Colonial-office would
carry out the principle that he had laid down. It was only
on the previous Friday that the house had conceded an in-
quiry into the Admiralty; and a committee had also been
appointed to consider the number of matters which were
peculiarly within the province of the Poor•law Board and
the Exchequer. When, therefore, the hon. gentleman talked
of this preliminary objection, he was in fact limiting too
much the prerogative of the house ; and he (Mr. Baxter)
hoped they would never accept the doctrine that they must
leave such subjects in the hands of the Govet nment. (Hear.)
In the present case there existed great differences of opinion
amongst the officers themselves. Gen. Peel stated that the
Government was labouring under great difficulty and em-
barrassment with regard to the colonies ; and when they
had:so strong an expression from the gallant general, hon.
members must be satisfied that a prima facie case was made
out for the interference of the house. According to the hon.
gentleman (Mr. Fortescue) everything was couleur de rose ;
and no doubt his speech would be read with pleasure by the
colonists ; but the house must recollect that they were the
representatives of the people of this country ; and that they
found a report placed in their hands which stated the mili-
tary expenditure on account of the colonies for the year
1858 at £3,968,000, while the colonies only contributed the
sum of £378,215. (Hear.) His hon. friend said that the
cost had since been greatly reduced ; but he wished the
hon. gentleman had condescended a little to particulars.
The surplus revenues of the Dutch colonies were stated in
the report to be £2,600,000 a year, and those of the Spanish
£l,lso,ooo—almost as large an amount on the right as ours
was on the wrong side of the account. (Hear.) The hon.
gentleman disputed the figures. relating to the Cape of
Good Hope, and stated that the expenditure was now less
than half of what it was in ISSB. Well, that would only
make a difference of £400,000, which would still leave a sum
of upwards of three millions for the defence of the colonies.
Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland did not
contribute a farthing to this purpose, and the Cape only con-
tributed the miserable sum of £30,000. So far from em-
barrassing the noble duke at the head of the Colonial De-
partment, he was satisfied that the noble duke would find
that an inquiry impartially carried on by a committee of
that house would strengthen his hands and enable him to
enforce his views upon those colonies which did not ade-
quately support their own military expenditure. They all
knew that very great things had been done in Australia ;
and he wished that the example which, w;th so much credit
to themselves, they had set should be extended, not only
with the sanction of the Colonial-office, but with that of the
house. He hoped, therefore, that her Majesty's Government
would reconsider their determination. (Cheers.)

Lord R. CECIL had heard the last few words of the
hon. gentleman (Mr. Fortescue) with surprise, for he had
never listened to a more conclusive speech in favour of a
motion than that which the hon. gentleman had finished by
a declaration that he should oppose the proposition before
the house. It appeared to him (the noble lord) that it
was a great error to publish a report which showed how
greatly the Government officials differed among it them-
selves ; but as it had been printed he did not know any
adequate means of dealing with the controversy except
by referring it to a select committee. The hon. gentle-
man entirely mistook the pedigree of the present mc-
tion. It was really due to the very wise State paper
which was issued last year by the right hon. gentle-
man the Secretary for the Home Department, in which he
showed the great difficulty and cost of Colonial Government,
and I-Anted out more authoritatively than anybody had yet
done the mode of settling the doubts which had arisen.
When the hon. gentleman spoke, however, of the three
millions which were expended in the military defence of our
colonies he overlooked a very important fact, namely, that
the greater part of that sum was incurred in the defence,
not of our colonies, but of a series of detached military
posts. In the first place, more than a million of it was spent
on the Mediterranean settlements, Gibraltar, Malta, and
the lonian Islands. As to the propriety of retaining those
posts, he said nothing ; but it was quite clear that the cost
of a war expenditure, and they had no right
t
upon the colonies. The same remark applied
them
charge was
i t really
to the Bermudas, Heligoland, St. Helena, and other places
too numerous to mention. Then there was a large class of
colonies which were in no danger from external enemies
except in Europe, in other words, colonies which would not
be involved in war unless by our own act. Of course if we
went to war with France our relations in the Pacific would
be endangered ; if with America those in the Caribbean
Sea might be imperilled, and it was only conformable with
the principles of justice that those who made the quarrels
should bear the cost of fighting them- (Hear, hear.) The
exhaustive division which he had made of our colonies only
left two others unmentioned, They were bordered by
powerful native tribes, with whom the inhabitants might
at any time come into collision. He referred to the Cape
and to New Zealand. It might be a great question whether
it was wise in the first instance to colonise these places at all.
When they looked back at their past history they might well I

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