The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-19 00:00:00

AMENT ' duke said they had been under the control of the Admi- be better pleased with the continuance of the present board
• ralty for a long time, and it was desirable they should so than with the body proposed to be created by the amend-
remain. Now, he (Earl of Derby) thought that the advow- ment of the member for Dover. He should support the mo.
sons should be sold and the proceeds carried to the credit of tion for referring the bill to a select committee.
the charity, and go to increase the funds of the charity. Mr. LIDDELL approved of the scope and tendency of
The Earl of HARDWICKE thought he was quite right the bill, and believed that the terms proposed were equitable.
in the course wkich he had taken, though he would not After some further discussion,
divide the house upon the proposition. He would remind Mr. THOMPSON withdrew his amendment, and the
the noble duke that by the charters of 1775 and 1809 it was house went into committee on this bill.
provided that the management of the hospital should be Six clauses were agreed to, and at 4 o'clock the sitting
under the control of officers who had lost a limb or who had was suspended.
been disabled in active service, and now the noble duke was The house resumed at 6 o'clock.
preparing a scheme which was contrary to the intentions of THE CHANNEL FLEET.
the founders. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DAWSON asked the Secretary to the Admiralty
The house then went into committee. whether it was intended that the Channel fleet should enter
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH considered that the Lough Foyle in their cruise of observation along the north-
office of Governor of Greenwich Hospital should be con- em coast of Ireland; and whether, consistently with the
ferred on the ground of great public services, but he ob- convenience of the service, such visit, which would be
jected to making it an honorary employment, for it was not esteemed most gratifying, and was desired by the citizens of
honorary to place an old officer in such a situation, giving Londonderry, could be accomplished ?
him nothing but money and a house furnished, and depriv- Lord C. PAGET was afraid that he could not give the
ing him of all power. He proposed to leave out the words hon. gentleman any assurance that the Channel squadron
at the end of the 12th clause, ,6 and shall not take any ac- would visit Londonderry and Lough Foyle, but it was very
tive part in the management of the hospital." gratifying to the Admiralty to find that the inhabitants were
The Duke of SOMERSET said that if the governor were anxious for the presence of the fleet, for he regretted to say
to take any active part it would unhinge the whole manage- the inhabitants of other districts had remonstrated against
ment, and it was therefore thought :advisable to appoint an having the fleet sent to them, a fact which was not, in his
officer in wham the Admiralty had confidence, and who opinion, at all to their credit.
could give them an independent opinion, but without con- A LIVERPOOL SLAVER.
ferring on him a power which would clash with that of the Mr. PEASE asked the President of the Board of Trade if
commissioners. it was true that the United States steamer Saratoga had
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that might be captured, near the Congo River, the ship Nightingale
avoided if the Government would adopt the suggestion of of Liverpool; whether the ship had 960 slaves on board,
his noble and gallant friend, and give the governor the in- and was ready to carry 1,600 slaves ; and, provided such
ternal management of the hospital and that of the estate to were the facts, asked when the ship last cleared from
the commissioners. Liverpool, and for what port ; what was the nature of her
The clause was then agreed to without a diviaion. cargo; and whether her owners resided in Liverpool, and
The remaining clauses were then agreed to, and the bill, were amenable to the law ?
as amended, reported to the house. Mr. M. GIBSON had made inquiries of the Customs
EXCISE AND STAMP DUTIES BILL. authorities at Liverpool, and he found that the ship Night-
This bill passed through committee. ingale had cleared out from that port on the 24th Nov.,
THE MILITIA. 1860, for St. Thomas. He was informed that she was a
Viscount 'HARDINGE moved for a return of the effec- United States ship, and was bound to St. Thomas and the
five strength and the number present at the training of West Coast of Africa; but neither the Admiralty nor the
militia regiments in the year 1860, with a similar return for Foreign-office had received any official account of her cap-
the present year.
tore.
The Earl of RIPON said his noble friend the Secretary
for War, who was then absent, proposed to have prepared
a comparative return, which would be laid before the
house, and would afford the noble viscount all the informa-
tion he required, and his noble friend had much satisfaction
in feeling that the return would show that the militia had
increased both in efficiency and numbers.
The motion was then withdrawn, and their lordships ad-
journed.

THE CAMILLA.

Mr. WYLD asked the Secretary to the Admiralty whether
any inquiries had been made regarding the reported wreck
of her Majesty's ship Camilla, Commander Colville, in the
Japanese waters in September, 1860, and the result of the
inquiries?

Lord C. PAGET said the Admiralty had received three
reports from Admiral Hope, which, he regretted to say, left
no doubt as to the fate of the unfortunate ship Camilla.
All the information which had come to the Admiralty had
been sent at once to the public journals, for they thought it
only due to those interested in the vessel that they should
have the earliest intelligence which it was in the power of
Government to give them. The Indian Government had
sent a steamer to explore the coast of Japan, and all the
creeks had been examined without success. A request had,
moreover, been conveyed to the native ptinces that they
would order the fishing vessels, of which there were many
in those waters, to assist in the search; and the final report
of Admiral Hope was that, in his opinion, the case of the
Camilla was hopeless. There had subsequently been a report
that the topmast of a vessel had been discovered, which the
Admiralty were disposed to think must be a remnant of the
missing ship, especially as a Dutch man-of-war had also
been lost in the neighbourhood of the Camilla in the same
dreadful typhoon which had lately raged round that coast.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at twelve o'clock.
EAST INDIA COUNCIL AND HIGH COURTS
OF JUDICATURE BILL.
On the motion that the house go into committee,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked whether the right hon.
gentleman opposite could give him any information as to
the change this bill would lead to in the revenues of India ?
Mr. M. GIBSON said he could not, as he had been asked
by his hon. friend the Secretary for India merely to move
the resolution which he held in his hand, as a matter of
form.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said it was necessary that the
greatest care should be taken of the finances and revenue
of India. This bill contained two new appointments
of members to Council, which would cost £B,OOO
each. (Hear.) As the appointments would be made
in this country, that would be an addition to the patronage
of the Secretary for India. Then, again, the number of
judges was increased from 14 to 21; all this would be fresh
charges, and as he felt it his duty, as far as possible, to use
his best exertions to protect the revenues of India, he should
move some amendments when the house was in committee
on the bill.
The house then went into committee, and a resolution
was passed on which to found a clause relative to salaries
and compensation.
THE HARBOURS BILL.
On the motion that the Speaker leave the chair,
Mr. LINDSAY said before the Speaker left the chair
he wished to make some observations with respect to this
bill. The object of the bill was to enable loans being made
for the purpose of constructing harbours, the abolition of
passing tolls, for charitable purposes, and other differential
dues. Now, with respect to the abolition of passing tolls
he could have no objection, but an hon. member had given
notice that he intended to move that the bill be referred to
a select committee, but he must beg of the hon. member to
withdraw his motion, as that subject had been decided over
and over again. The bill had been very much altered since
it first made its appearance in the house, and he thought the
utmost care should be exercised before the bill was passed
a further stage because the amounts of certain sums of
money to be paid to various places had been greatly in•
creased, and that without the slightest cause being shown
for what the money was required. He also found that there
were other clauses, Nes. 32 and 42, which would
enable the Board of Trade to sell harbours to private corn.
ponies. Ramsgate Harbour, for instance, upon which up-
wards of £2,000,000 had been expended, could be disposed
of by that department if the bill passed through com-
mittee as it stood. Then, again, Hull, Newcastle,
and Liverpool had been dealt with most par-
tially by the bill, and although he agreed with
the principle of the measure, he should feel it his duty to
move several amendments to many of the clauses as they
came under the consideration of the house.
Mr. THOMPSON moved that the bill be referred to a
select committee. He thought it was unwise to abolish
passing tolls without providing a substitute, and also that
the measure would have the effect of destroying many of
the Harbours of Refuge. For these reasons he could not
assent to the motion for going into committee.
Mr. DEEDES seconded the motion.
On the question being put by the SPEAKER,
Mr. CAYLEY hoped the hon. gentleman would not per-
severe with his motion for referring the bill to a select
committee,
Mr. DEEDES said he supported the proposition for re-
ferring the bill to a select committee because that course
would enable private parties whose interests were seriously
interfered with to place their grievances and claims before
such a tribunal. The Dover Harbour Commissioners felt
that their interests were severely affected by the bill. If
the measure was referred to a select committee the authori-
ties at Dover could place their claims before the committee.
If they failed to convince them of the justice of their com-
plaints he of course had nothing to do. The bill proposed
to abolish the payment of passing tolls after Jan., 1862, but
he thought that while that was laid down in the bill some
arrangements ought to be made for the extinction of debt of
the Dover Harbour Commissioners.
Sir F. GOLDSMID thought the President of the
Board of Trade had rejected various points in this bill too
easily, but if the measure was referred to a select commit •
tee he should consider the question of compensation to be
again entirely re-opened.
Mr. CAVE thought it bad policy to deal hardly with
private interests. He was of opinion that the bill had
better be referred to a select committee.

Mr. MOFFATT said the present bill was different in all
its essentials from the bill first brought in. There was also
another startling provision in the measure that dealt with

the great harbour of refuge of England, he meant the har-
bour of Ramsgate. He could not for an instant assent to

____......
any proposition which would enable any set of men to merge
the important work at Ramsgate inta the hands of a rail-
way company. He was at a loss to understand how such
a proposition could have been embodied in a bill of the na-
ture of that now before them.
Mr. BENTINCK supported the motion for referring the
bill to a select committee.
Sir J. JOHNSTON thought that some assistance ought
to be given by the Government to the small tidal harbours
of Whitby, Scarborough, and Bridlington if the recommen-
dation of Harbour of Refuge Commissioners to construct
a harbour of refuge at Filey was not to be carried out.
After a few words from Mr. KENDALL,
Sir M. PETO said be thought the house would
have adopted a much wiser course had they
g
oonceinsto
preference committee on the bill in
one at
t
clauses which coulddiseuZegbevezridoisP°Bed of
us objections to several
in its regular order. various f
with respect to the effect the bill
:orals Iladhaybewith the clause
e
eunpoenxpßreassmesd.
Rams-
gate harbour. He had carefully looked at the clause, and
found nothing in it to cause the slightest alarm. Such a
course as that now proposed had
with eat success. He ve well bees taken before, and
great remembered Folkestone
before it was sold to the corporation, and a more dead-and-
alive place he had never seen, except Dover at the present
time. (Laughter.) Now it was made a flourishing port,
and a large sum of money had been expended upon it.
Lowestoft was another instance of the same success. He
had seen that harbour so bad that a fishing lugger got in

with difficulty at low water; but now since it had been die,

posed of to the corporation, and in consequence of the im•

proventents that had been made there, vessels
- .

now of 200 tons could get in at low water,

and he himself had seen upwards of 900 vessels
riding safely in the harbour, and all this had been

done with the aid of passing tolls. He was sure the Go-
vernment would take care that neither Ramsgate nor Dover
_ _ _

were handed over to any company without good guarantees

forits proper management. He thought the house were just
as able to deal with this question as five of their members

would be with the assistance of several gentlemen in big
wigs up stairs. He could not consent to refer the bill

to a select committee.

Mr. NICOL saw no reason for referring the bill to a select
committee.

Mr. 11. GIBSON said there were not so many alterations
in the bill as had been supposed, particularly with regard
to passing tolls, which would be abolished from the Ist of
January next year; as originally proposed with regard to the
dues levied by charitable corporations,they would be allowed
to continue for 10 years. If the bill were referred to a select
committee, it would be a practical defeat of the bill, and he
must therefore object to the course proposed. He should
be prepared to agree to the amendment of the member for
Dover, to constitute a nem board for the management of
Dover Harbour.

Sir B. BRIDGES thought that the people of Dover would