The Sun.
London, England, 1861-05-07 00:00:00

THE SUN,744ONDUN, -46TITESDAV !EVENING, MAY 7, 1861.

that the repeal o(the paper duty would have the effect not
of cheapening, but of rendering the price of paper dearer.
One gentleman—Mr. Bond, a stationer—represented to
him that the repeal of the paper duty would prove ruinous
to him in his business. In this country they could not
get a supply of rags sufficient for the purposes of the ma-
nufacture of paper and the demand, and foreign paper
would therefore be brought into the market in competi-
tion with the hone manufacturer in this country, and
would have the effect of raising the price of the home
manufactured article. (Hear, hear.) He was in posses-
sion of information which clearly sh'iwed that the cheap
publications would not be much benefited by the repeal of
the paper duty. But he was told that if they repealed
the paper duty, they would save £22,000 a-year by
getting rid of the collection of the duty. But was that
so. They would still be obliged to retain the half of the
staff, and thus not get rid of the whole cost of the collec-
tion.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I have
taken credit for £ll,OOO until October, when the tax will
cease.

Sir L. PALE—However that might be, there were other
taxes which the Government promised should be repealed,
and among them the taxes upon tea and sugar; and why
should not faith be kept with the public in relation to the
promised remission of taxes on those articles of necessity ?
(Hear.) He believed if they could remit any tax which was
less injurious to the people of the country than another,
they could not put their hand upon one that pressed less
upon the people than the paper duty.
The question that the resolution be agreed to was then
put.
Mr. DISR AELI said that the opinion of the house should
be fairly taken as to the remission of the paper duty. He
would not then oppose the passing of the resolution ; but in
stating that, he begged to add that he reserved for himself
and those who acted with him the right to express their opi-
nions fully on the occasion of the bringing in of the bill.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
right hon. gentleman had a perfect right to take his own
time to explain to the house what were his particular views
on this subject, and he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
would not therefore think it necessary to trouble the com-
mittee on the present occasion, but would reserve himself
for another opportunity.
The resolution was then agreed to.
EXCISE.—CHICORY.

The CHANCELLOR of theEXCHEQUER said he had
been asked to postpone the resolution on the Custom, duties
and he should therefore pass on to No. 6, which was then
read by the chairman.
That, towards raising the supply granted to her Ma-
jesty, and in lieu of the duties of Excise now payable on
the article hereinafter-mentioned, there shall be charged
and paid for and upon all chicory, or any other vegetable
matter applicable to the uses of chicory or coffee grown in
the United Kingdom :
For every hundredweight thereof, raw or kiln-dried,
until the Ist day of April, 1862, the luty of Bs. 6d., and
on and after that day, the duty of Ils., and so in pro-
portion for any greater or less quantity than a hun-
dredweight.
And for and upon all chicory or other vegetable matter
as aforesaid, upon the importation thereof into the United
Kingdom from the islands of Guernsey, Jersey, Alderney,
and Sark :
For every hundredweight thereof, raw or kiln-dried,
until the Ist day of April, 1862, the duty of 9s. ; and
on and after that day, the duty of 125., and so in pro-
portion for any greater or less quantity than a hundred
weight.
This resolution was also agreed to.
EXCISE.—REFRESHMENT HOUSES.
The following resolution was then proposed :
That, towards raising the supply granted to her
Majesty, every person who shall keep open .any
house, room, shop, or building, for the purpose of
selling therein, or who shall sell therein, at any time
between the hours of nine of the clock at night and
five of the clock of the following morning, any victual or
refreshment, or cigars, or tobacco, to be consumed on the
premises where the same shall be sold (except beer, cider,
wine, and spirits, sold respectively under a proper license
in that behalf, and except also cigars and tobacco sold by a
person duly licensed to sell beer by retail to be consumed on
the premises, and also duly licensed to sell tobacco), and
every person who shall keep open any house, room, shop,
or building, for the consumption therein by the public of
any victual or refreshment, cigars or tobacco (except as
aforesaid), although the same shall not be sold therein, shall
respectively be deemed to keep a refreshment house, and
shall, unless he shall be duly licensed by the justices to
keep a common inn, ale house, or victualling house, on the
, same premises, take out a license to keep a refreshment
house chargeable with the duty imposed by the Act of the
last session of Parliament, chapter 27.
After a short discussion,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed
that there were many houses of entertainment open at late
hours of the night to which it was deemed desirable to ex-
tend police inspection. Some of these houses were of a
doubtful character, and it was often very difficult to draw a
line of distinction between one class of houses of entertain-
ment and another. After what had been said upon the sub-
ject he felt it to be his duty to endeavour to amend the clause
so as to obviate reasonable objections, and at the same time
not to give up the principle contended for last year. It
would be impracticable, he thought, to alter the hours.
The resolution was withdrawn accordingly.
The following resolutions were then proposed and agreed
to :

EXCISE—SPIRITS—RETAIL LICENSE TO DEALERS.
7. That, towards raising he supply granted to her Ma-
jesty, there shall be charged and paid upon , very additional
Excise licens. to be taken out by any licensed dealer in
spirits to authorise and empower him to sell by retail any
quantity, not being less that one reputed quart bottle, of
oreign or British spirits, not to be drunk or consumed on
the premises, the sum of £3 3s.
STAMP DUTIES.—HOUSE AGENTS.

9. That, towards raising- the supply granted to her
Majesty, there shall be charged f,r and upon a license to
be taken out yearly by every person who shall use or exer-
cise the business, occupation, or calling of a house agent,
not being an auctioneer, or an a/praiser, duly licensed as
such, the stump duty of £2.
STAMP DUTIES.—FURNISHED Ifouss.

10. That, towards raising the supply granted to her Ma-
jesty, in lieu of the stamp duties now chargeable for or upon
any lease or tack of any furnished dwelling-house, for any
term or period of time less than a year, or any agreement,
minute, or memorandum of agreement containing the
terms and conditions on which any such house is let, occu-
pied, or held for any such term or period of time, where
the rent for such term or period of time shall exceed £25,
there shall be charged the stamp duty of 2s. 6d. with pro-
gressive duties respectively, to be calculated as in the case
of deeds and instruments in general of the same amount.
And for the duplicate or counterpart therecf the like
duties.

of the events in America, and I should hope that our Cus-

toms duties will not materially suffer.
Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, in moving that these resolutions
be reported to the heuse, it is important to know what these
resolutions are. I understand that 5 and 8 have been with-

drawn. (The Chancellor of the Exchequer explained.) Mr.
Disraeli proceeded—ln respect to resolution No. 4, which
passed in a remarkably thin house, and which related to
the paper duty, I wish to say that it did not pass un-
observed, but I thought it wise for the convenience of the
house that the resolution should pass, and that I should

reserve to myself, and to any other member of the
house, the right to take exception to it at any future
stage, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer accepted
that. I would remark that, from the manner in
which it has been brought forward, the opportunity which

the house will have of expressing its opinion will be very
much curtailed, while as regards the other house that
opportunity will be wholly abolished. Considering these
circumstances we ought to proceed with unusual delibera-
tion. I should also like to know when it is intended to re-
port the resolutions to the house, when the bill will be
brought in, and what is the course of business contemplated ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Sir, the
course I propose to take is this. I stated on the part of the
Government that it was thought best for the convenience
of the house, and best adapted to present circumstances to
bring all the main features of the financial plan under the
view of the house at once, and that at the close of the com-
mittee I should move for leave to introduce a bill treating
the whole as one measure ; that all the main features might
be treated consecutively, and in connection. The inconveni-
ence of the contrary course was shown last year, when the
hon. member for Sontersetshire, in opposing the repeal of
the paper duties, was obliged to make constant reference to
the income -tAx, though not in the same bill, and though it
had already been passed. Government, however, regarded
the main features of this plan as being essentially one,
though consisting of several parts; though some minor
points, not essentially of the general plan, will be treated
separately. I understand the question of the honourable
gentleman to be what course I propose to take ? My reply
to that is, that it is thought advisable, in order to meet
the wants of the public service, to prosecute this mea-
sure to as early a settlement as is consistent with the
convenience of the house. Considering that these
plans had been before the country for three weeks, he
hoped that the house would be prepared to take the mea-
sure into consideration as early as possible, and he pro-
posed to move to-reeeto,v oils day) that the resolutions
be reported, and would then move for leave to bring in a
bill, the second reading of which he would fix for Thursday.
Mr. DISRAELI thought that would be pressing the
matter with undue precipitation, and thought that Monday
would be a more fitting day for the second reading of the
bill, as it Might probably happen that there would be some
discussion on the.bringing up of the report.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the most convenient course would be to move to-morrow
(this day) the bringing up of the report, and he would
then state what day he would be prepared to move for the
second reading. At the same time it was most important
for the public service that the plans should be definitively
settled as soon as possible.
Mr. DISRAELI said there could be no pressure with
respect to public business in connection with the principal
features of the financial proposition, as the duties on tea,
and sugar, and paper, were not proposed to cease at present.
He again deprecated the proceeding with undue precipita-
tion in dealing with these measures. If ever there was a
time when it behoved the House to proceed with delibera-
tion it was in the case of these resolutions, when it was
proposed to deprive the House of Commons of some of its
constitutional privileges in discussing measures of finance,
and in depriving the House of Lords of all power of revi-
sion in the matter.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repeated
his determination to move the report of the resolutions to-
morrow, and would have the bill printed, and be in the
hands of members on Wednesday. That bill would include
the provisions of the tea and sugar duties, the paper duty,
and the income tax, and probably the resolution relating to
chicory.
Mr. MASSEY then left the chair, and the house re-
sumed, with cheers from the Ministerial side, at the com-
pletion of this stage of progress in the Budget.
On the report of Supply being brought up,
Mr. HENNESSY said it was generally the practice to
postpone the discussion of the civil service estimates until a
late period of the session. Last session, for instance, these
estimates were discussed at the close, when, the house
being nearly empty, the Government were enabled to secure
a majority. During the recess, sixty members had pressed
the noble lord at the head of the Government as to the
propriety of making reductions in the votes, and they were
told in reply to attend to their business in the house, and
to prevent the estimates from being taken at a late period
of the session. When he (Mr. Hennessy) made a motion
upon these estimates, the sixty members in question all
voted for enabling the Government to postpone the discus-
sion on them until the close of the session. (Hear.) He
begged to move that the resolution with regard to the civil
service estimates be read a second time elute .1.7 fm+Trlst.6.
The SPEAKER. asked whether the hon. member ob-
‘ jested to any particular vote?
Mr. HENNESSY toplied in the negative. He only ob-
jected to the taking of any vote on account at present, it
being desirable to consider the question more fully at some
future time.
Lord PALMERSTON hoped the hon. gentleman would
not persist in his motion. The money was required to pay
the immediate demands of the service. So far from the
Government wishing to postpone these estimates until a
late period of the session, there was every desire to bring
them on as soon as possible.
After a few words from Lord J. MANNERS,
Mr. PEACOCK asked when the miscellaneous estimates
would be brought forward. These were a class of estimates
which it was necessary to inspect, and in which a judicious
reduction might be made. But it was most desirable that
they should not be postponed to a late period of the session,
when the greater number of persons present were usually
the supporters of the Government.
Mr. F. PEEL said that the civil service estimates now
sought for were only sufficient to meet the necessary expen-
d ture to the end of the month, and that there were b ilances
which he anticipated would be sufficient to enable the Go-
vernment to meet the general engagements of the service
until the votes were duly considered and passed.
Mr. HENNESSY having withdrawn his amendment,
the report of Supply was agreed to.
COPYRIGHT (WORKS OF ART) BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. WALTER said that by the third clause any person
purchasing a picture after the passing of this Act would net
be allowed to permit a friend to take a copy of it, or himself
to have it engraved, which was an infringement on the
natural liberty of the subject. So far as the protection of
artists from real piracy went, he would cordially support a
proposition to carry out the object; but he could not con-
sent to the principle that an artist should have a copyright
in his picture as against the purchaser of it. In committee
he should certainly move an amendment on the clause.
Lord FERMOY thought that the bill went too far.
When a work of art was sold the copyright should go with
it, and to enact to the contrary would affect the interests of
the artists themselves, as the sale of their works would be
restricted by such a provision as that contained in the bill.
Mr. LAYARD advised the Attorney-General and artists
to consider well before they consented to the passing of this
bill. There were various things in the bill altogether be-
yond the reach of the law. No one could imitate the idea
suggested by a picture without exposing himself to penalties
under this bill. The bill would throw art altogether into
the hands of traders.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in answering the obser-
vations which had been made on the bill, said that in the
first place he must observe that the hon. member for Berk-
shire had not distinguished between the purchaser of the
work of art and the purchaser of the copyright of it. If a
person bought the picture merely, he had a right to enjoy it,
but not to multiply copies; just as the man who bought a
book had a right to the book, but not to multiply copies of
it. (Hear.) In conclusion, the hon. member might be able
to argue the question whether the idea or conception could
be rendered matter of copyright. The member must be
familiar with the language by which the original concep-
tion was considered as that,which made the original concep-
tion. As to the possibili, yof copying parts, it was a com-
mon thing that pictures were found in which a part was
borrowed from one picture and a part from another, and
then the entire work was put forward as original. He
hoped the house would carry the second reading of the pre-
sent bill, which was the first attempt to give to the artist a
protection which he had in every other country in Europe.
The argument that the artist was best without protection
would, if true, apply equally to the author, yet the author
had more complete protection here than in other countries.
The artist appealed to the highest faculties of human intel-
ligence, and why should they deny him a protection which
was given to literature ? He was sure no one would say
that the Copyright Act had been injurious to literature.
The bill was then read a second time.
The house adjourned at a ekuarter-past 12 o'clock.

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LAW INTELLIGENCE—(2has Day).

COURT OF CHANCERY.
(Before the Lords Justices of Appeal.)
RE GREENE-APPEAL-JUDGMENT.
Their lordships delivered judgment in private in this
case.