The Sun.
London, England, 1859-06-11 00:00:00

of only two. The one is, that we have failed in
our legislation ; the other is, that we have failed iu our
foreign policy. Now, anything more futile than the attempts
which have been made to support these accusations I have
never witnessed. Hon. gentlemen say that we have failed
in our Church Rate Bill. Now, I submit to the house that,
if there be anything to be complained of connected with that
Church Rate Bill it was rather the manner in which it was

brought forward. (Loud cheers.) But will any man gravely
contend that failure on a Churchßatebill in the late Parlia-

ment is to be the ground for a vote of want of confidence
now ? (Cheers.) Why, it is manifestly absurd. But there
is another bill which we brought forward to which hon.

gentlemen have not referred. The noble viscount did not
mention it ; and nobody else has mentioned it amongst our
legislative failures ; I allude to the bill which was intro-

diced by the SoliCitor-General for the transfer of land.
(Hear, hear.) That was a subject upon which our prede-
cessors, either from want of courage or want of ability, have
uniformly shrunk—(cheers)—but my learned friend, in the
most able manner, in a manner which elicited praise from all
sides of the house, and support from every quarter of the
house, introduced that bill which lie laid upon the table
last session. (Cheers.) That has not been enumerated as
amongst our legislative failures. (Hear, hear.) I e.annot
proceed further without noticing the exaggerated references
which have been made to our Reform Bill. The noble vis-
count said that nobody out of the Cabinet, with one or two

exceptions only spoke In its favour. Now, Ido not deny that
there were provisions in that bill to which great exception
was taken, both in this house and out of doors. But if the
bill were so objectionable, why is it the noble lord was
obliged to resort to that irregular resolution as the only
mode in which he could hope to obtain a majority in this
house ? (Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman the member
for Wilts spoke of our bill as having been rejected'. I
corrected him at the moment. It was not rejected. (Hear.)
The noble lord dared not raise the issue. It is notorious
that, if the question of the second reading had been taken,
the second reading would have been carried. Are
there no gentlemen of eminence on the other side
of the house at this moment listening to me who in
private conversation declared that bill to be a most
wise and liberal measure ? I mention no names. Ido not
mean to bring up personal charges, but there are those who
understand what I mean. . (Cries of " oh," and " ndme,"
accompanied by loud cheers.) When I say that there were
a number of gentlemen on the other side of the house who
were prepared to vote for the second reading of that bill, and
to support us upon it, but who when they found that a
party move had been made and that the bill was not to be
considered on its merits said, " The issue is changed ; this
is no longer n discussion on the Reform Bill ; it is an at-
tack upon the Government ; and we must vote with our
party"—(cheers)—these are notorious facts, and I will no
longer dwell upon them ; but as they are notorious facts I
protest against the exaggerated language which has been
held about that Reform Bill, which did make great and
liberal concessions, and which you know would have passed
a second reading had that been the only question before us.
(Cheers.) Well, how does the question of reform now
stand ? What are your prospects under the coalition, or
whatever it may be termed, of which we have heard ? Have
we forgotten that the noble lord the member for London
went out of his way within a day or two before the dissolu-
tion ? Perhaps he thought he might make a little politi-
cal capital at the moment; but he went out of his way to
give us a sketch of what his Reform Bill was to be. The
next day the noble viscount the member for Tiverton came
down to the house, and in his turn went out of his way to
declare that he could not approve of such provisions.
(Cheers and laughter.) This :'gives us a little insight of
what the reform prospects of the new Administration are
to be. (Hear, hear.) The last event that occurred was the
hon and learned member for Birmingham making a speech
in this house last night, when he declared that he might
be contented to accept a £lO franchise for counties, and a
£5 or £6 franchise for boroughs; very much the same
sketch that the noble lord the member for London has
given us, and against which the noble lord the member
for Tiverton has protested. Now this does not open to
ardent Reformers a very clear prospect of what we are to
have ; but it does open to my mind a very clear prospect,
in the event of a majority supporting this amendment,
of what the future Government of this country is likely to
be. It opens to me the unpleasant and dangerous prospect
of being a Whig-Radical Government, divided and dis-
tracted among themselves, with the hon. member for Bir-
mingham sitting on their flank, guiding them in their de-
mocratic measures, and ready at any moment to trip them
up if they do not do his bidding. (Cheers and laughter.)
And I think that the hon. member for Birmingham has
shown great wisdom in keeping out of this entanglement.
(A laugh.) I think he has consulted his own character and
reputation m not sitting in the same Cabinet with the noble
viscount. (Hear and laughter.) I think that, after what
has passed in this house it would not be for the character of
the noble viscount nor of the hon. gentleman to sit in the
same Cabinet together. lam glad, for the sake of both, to
find that it is not likely to happen ; but I think the pro-
posal before us, as I have sketched it, will be humiliating
to the individuals concerned, and dangerous to the interests
of the country. (Hear.) Sir, for what is it proposed to pass
a vote of want of confidence in the Government ? On what
is it proposed to found it ? Is it on our foreign policy ?
Now, what part of that foreign policy is it which justifies
this vote of want of confidence? We heard a good deal
before the dissolution of the case of the Charles-et-Georges.
(Cheers from the Liberals.) Gentlemen cheer; but I sup-
pose that was not a case for a want of confidence, or other-
wise we should have had a motion on it before this time.
(Hear.) Certainly there was no reluctance to attack her
Majesty's Ministers, if that was such a bad case. lam re-
minded that we had a motion on the affair of the Charles-
et-Georges, but it was a sham motion. It was not an at-
tack; it was not a motion upon which you dared to take a
division, because the merits of the case were against you.
(Hear.) Is the attack on our foreign policy in consequence
of the case of the Cagliari, in which my noble friend Lord
Malmesbury succeeded in doing that which had foiled the
late Government for months, and on which my noble
friend extricated the English engineers from the dungeons
of Naples, and obtained compensation for the injuries they
had endured ? (Hear.) No Government ever had more rea-
son to be proud of their foreign policy than her Majesty's
present Government. (Ironical laughter from the Opposi-
tion.) In a most successful manner my noble friend Lord
Malmesbury managed the difficulty connected with that
case, and here, sir, let me do justice to the spirit of fairness
in hich the right hon. gentleman the member for North
Wiltshire this evening alluded to Lord Malmesbury. My
noble friend has done his portion of the work of the
present Government in a most able manner. (Cheers.) He
has been most unfairly and harshly treated—(Oh, oh)—but
while I have to complain of the language which the right
hon. gentleman the member for North Wiltshire used in
respect of myself I thank him for the fairness of his len-
guage in regard of my noble friend Lord Malmesbury.
(Hear.) Well, if you cannot attack our foreign policy on
either of these grounds nothing remains but the Italian
question. Here Ido complain—and I hope my right hon.
friend the member for Stroud is in the house—l do for one
complain of the gross and flagrant injustice of proceeding
to censure any Government.before you have seen their
papers and heard their case. (Hear, hear.) I am
not surprised, and I do not complain of my right hon. friend
the member for Stroud that he should vote aganist us on
this occasion. I think from the course of his political life
he is entitled to take that course ; but I wish he had not
urged such false and fallacious ground for that vote.
I wish he had not come down here and said he would have
acceded to the justice of our claim if we had asked him to
hear the evidence in our case before the case was adjudged.
If that be his plea I claim his vote. (Hear, hear.) We do
complain of one of the most flagrant cases of political in
justice of which I have ever heard; and it requires the
lively audacity which distinguishes the noble viscount the
member for Tiverton to ask the house to take the course
which, in his speech on Tuesday night, he urged it to adopt.
Who was the other hon, member who urged that course ?
T4e hon. and • learned member for Cork (Mr. Sergeant
Dhasy), who ought to know that no verdict should be given
until the evidence in the case has been heard. (Hear.)
There is a golden rule in this country, and not less just
within this house than outside of it—never to condemn
any one unheard. (Cheers.) The noble lord the member
for Tiverton has called upon the house to reverse that rule;
but I hope new members will not think that any political
differences would justify such a gross injustice as to con •
demn the foreign policy of the Government in respect of the
Italian question before the house is in the possession of the
grounds upon which judgment in respect of that matter
should be given. (Hear, hear.) I cannot understand why
the hon. member for Birmingham is going to vote against
us to-night. He is an advocate of neutrality and peace. It
was justly remarked by an hon. member this evening that
no hon. gentleman had in this debate touched on the lan-
guage which we bad advised her Majesty to use in the
Speech from the Throne. In that Royal Speech our policy
in respect of the Italian question is said to be one of neu-
trality. The hon. member for Birmingham says that his
policy is one of neutrality. On what ground, then, can he
vote against us ? (Hear, hear.) I think I have a right to
complain unless there has been a misrepresentation of what
the hon. gentleman said at that ball the other day—(great
laughter, continued for some minutes)—l beg pardon, I
mean at that meeting which took place in Aimee' es room
the other day. (Renewed laughter, and .cheers.) Unless
the hon. member is misrepresented, he took occasion to say
he would vote against the noble lord the member for Tiver-
ton governing the country unless he expressed himself an
advocate for peace. However, he finds that we are ach o-
cates for peace, and with flagrant inconsistency he is going
to vote against. (Cries of " hear, hear," and cheers. I
think the honourable gentleman's views must have under-
gone some great and extraordinary change, for which I
cannot account, if he is sanguine that the best mode of
preserving the peace of Europe is to place the foreign
policy of the country in the hands of. the noble viscount.
Whatever may be the attributes of the noble viscount that
belief would not be in accordance with his (Lord Palmerston's)
reputation ; and I should have thought that the hon. mem-
ber for Birmingham would have been the last to give him
credit for a peaceful policy. (Hear, hear.) There is another
subject which, holding the position in the Government
which I do, it is impossible I can allow this debate to
close without alluding to—l mean the defences of this
country. (Hear, bear.) I think lam justified in repeating
what I commenced.by.saying—namely, that if you are think
ing of refusingyour confidence to the administration, surely
one of the things which you ought to consider is the mode
in which we have dealt with this important matter (Hear)'.
I feel impelledyerla.
afnadministrationtihllde measures
übadny edfasti
eket defences,
reluctance
suns edobofotyffthhtdahtmetauecyt yldaosauffse tpinaie;
country
11,
skoltuihfhnbdataeehvntgeeot,
lonbbhiesaootheav,:asybtleiif
uuynihetlparalsr:vphotai
eviattuaet.
atuhnHedte alludeheharrio B.
house
ogs
d to the able men whose assistance I have had, and
certainly to my right hon, friend the Secretary of the Ad-
miralty. How was
which the la
itthatthenteoble viscount made
no reference
feren(liarceeto state in government left
the navy ? (Hear, hear.) I am not now intending to revive
any controversies between those who have hitherto filled
the office of First Lord and myself. I. only wish to advert,
in justice to my colleagues and myself, to facts which are
incontrovertible. This fact, I think, no gentleman oprosite
can deny—that whatever may have been the cause—and no
doubt various eauses:eontributed to this result—when my
Lord Derby's government succeeded to office the effective
strength of the royal navy of this country was reduced to a
point which it had never reached before, and which I hope
to God it will never reach again. (Hear, and cheers.) I had
occasion to say before to •night that, 15 months ago, when
we came into office, we had only 25 effective line-of-battle
ships. Of course I mean ships with engines and screw-
propellers. It is true there were three more afloat taking
in their engines. Therefore, if you like you can compute
the entire number as 28 line-of-battle ships. That was not
e
a position in which the navy of Engladd should have been
placed. It was a .state of things which had neverthe
existed
before, and which her esty's
Governmedito'roted since
their
time it came into power untie this hour
Is this the reason w y
btruesettentheregim7 to(Hreedarr.e)ss. (Hear.) Is thisvewhhy
wyeeuarweontot
engines. Without these
nbeavyconndaewmrdA?t (tHhiesarmannindecnhtete,ressi.r)haNvirehnatnwis sthtaethn, Otfhtrhe
three
line-of-battle ships taking in h
teedadonof2B,a
sthhirpes; thee otttlfr ticiaossee,
tthhreeree,aarse e
count
tttthlee
cinalsl
was the case b
(Cheers.)
thl ea e ships,rs
we have 40 effectiveisnian
thlisnoea-god."
Parlia-
ment 16 mouths ag0,,,t0 enable me to redress this state of