The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-03 00:00:00

ititorney-Genend seemed to suppose. He fAt some diffi

culty on the sulject himself, because when the question
was broaght forward last year and opposed on the
ground just stated by the Attorney-General, the then.
Attorney-General, the present, Chief Justice of the
Common Pleas, went away from the division and did not
vote at all. There must, therefore, be some ground for
saying that the commisssion was not very useful when
the Attorney-Genenl of that day did not venture to sup-
port it. He was still prepared to give further time to the
Government, but still he thought the question did riot
stand in a v-ry satisfactory posiion. (Hear.) What had
been said by the right lion. and learned gentleman op-
posite was just that it was well to have a commission
which should prepare a consolidation of the law ; but
unless there teas some person sitting in that house to
bring in the bills, and prepared to show the reasons for
the different clauses, there was little use in preparing
such bills. (Hear.) It had been said that there were a
set of bills in the criminal law before t! ea other flou-e of
Parliament ; but it was not likely that these is wou'd
come down to this house in sufficient time for their Ven-
turing to pass them. It appeared to him that the use of
these commissioners was to enable pereone hot 'ing the
proper offices to avail themselves of their learning and
experience, with a view to the preparation and
brie grog
before Pailiaineet bill, in a proper shape. That was the
course he took in 1837, when he had to propose bills t ►
the house. He collected these gentlemen in the Heine
,ffice, sat with them several days, and went through the
different proposals with them. Having done that he
brought in these bills, which made a considerable change
iu the criminal law, and they were now the law of the
land. It struck him that the Lord Chancellor spoke pre-
maturely when he talked of a speedy eenselidatien of the
law. For instance, those who drew the acts relating to
breaches of trusts and frauds had different views of the
different kinds of frauds, and sometimes different views
ef the same fraud ; there were different penalties and
different modes of conviction ; and this being the case, ;t
seemed to him that it they were to put these various acts
together, they would have not only an incongruous, but
a contradictory, mass. In his opinion, therefore, the
present tiiLe was not a time for a consolidation, but for
an amendment of the law. (Hear.) The House of Lords
had sent them two bills, which, be trusted, with some
alterations and amendments, would pass into a law. Two
more important subjects than those of testamentary
jurisdictb.n and divorce could hardly be touched by le-
gislation. These bills had been worked up by the House
of Lords putting itself under -the guidance and advice of
such able and experienced men as Lords Brougham,
fey ndhur-t, and St. Leonards, and others, and trained in
such a manner as to amend the la,w of the country. Tr.;
was the first thing required. Other laws also required
amendment before they could come to conselidation. It
they came to consolidate prematurely, be believed that
a great many acts would be consolidated which should

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teeese reitsiiees) eh.) wouli det-uto et, ,eleeeeke,4i •
to a c :lisideratioe oi the tte,:diiiet.ts dr the Law and 1,,,,
r.doftn, they would be likely to see some good -fruitir
freer) a measure of :hat kind. Si far he agreed•with the
right hon. gentlemae opposite (Ntr, Napier);, but he'did
not know whether the right hon. gentleman wouldagre
in what he was now going to say. No doubt the ap-
point tent of a m nist, r of justice might be attended
with considerable expense ; but by abolishing the lord-
lieutenancy of Ireland be thought sufficient means might
be found to defray the txpense. (Hear.) He thought th
time was come when stunt a reform might be made,--and
a minister of jure ice app inted. He would not vote for
the motion of his hon. friend, but he thought his hon.
friend had good reason for again asking what were the
grounds for the existence of this commission. (Hear.)
After a few words from Mr. HADFIELD, the Motion
was negatived without a division.
THE COMPETITION FOR THE PUBLIC
OFFICES.
Mr. B. HOPE rose for the purpose of calling the at
tention of the house to the award of the judges, of the
competition for the public offices, which appeared in slt
He had not the least inten-
the jeurnele of yesterday,
tion of finding fault with the decision of the jedees, and
he theught the Government deserved great praise for
submitting th plans to coin petition ; but he must say
the competition was hurried nn with too much baste. He
was clad that foreigners had been admilted to compete,
and that a foreigner had met with justice from English
judge'. That block plan, which obtained the first prize,
cave a bold and ingenious method of distributing the area.
It was firmed on the oblong plan of the Louvre; but hoiv
the prize plan of the War-office and the prize plan of the
Foreign-office could be adjusted to that block plan, and
how they could be made to correspond, would puzzle the
practical heads who would have to consider the question.
The block plan should have been first settled and decided
upon before the plans for the two offices. London
possessed the most magnificent park area in the world
freer Kendegton-gardens to St James's Park, and what
should be done was this. The block of houses; which they
were about to purchtve fir the purpose of erecting these
G ivernment offices should be purchased for the purpose
of extendieg the park to the river side. They would the.
have tine of the finest prospects of St. Paul's aid the
numerous spires of the city. There was sufficient vane
for the new officus in the parade and ground a jelning.
The present plan once adopted, the best opportunity of
making London what it ought to be would be 1 itit for ever.
The question whether their parks were to be made the
marvel of the worl t was involved in the deci-ioa, and he
trusted that the present opp rtunity would not be lost.
Sir B. HALL said th- report of the judges bad only
been receiveti oil Monday ever.ine, and on Tuesday it was
laid on the table of the house. He thought it would be
much bet,er it his hon. friend deferred his observations
tilt it bad been printed and circulated amongst the mem-
bere. Tie judges were unaehnous as to the designs se-
lected. When the subject was first started a number of
architects called on him and asked him to name a mixed
commission to judge of the designs. He determined that
one member of the House of Lords and one member of
the H ,use of Cerninens should he on the commission,
and with them he associated Lord Eversley, the late
Speaker of the House of Commons. (Hear.) There were
tour geetleteen co :nested with scientific societies. The
judges therefore were the Duke of Buccleuch ; Mr. Stir-
le,g, member for Perthshire; Lord Eversley, Earl Stan-
hope, preodeet of the Society of Antiquaries ; Mr.
Brunel. who represented the Civil Engineers ; Mr. Ro-
berts, who represented the Roeal Academy ; and Mr.
Burns, who represented the Architects. In consequence
of pressing business in Scotland, the Duke of Buccleuch
was obliged to give up attending the meetings of the
commission, and he resigned. Tney all knew the sad
event that prevented Lord Eversley from attending the
last meeting—(hear)—'cut he had a letter from his noble
friend stating thee he entirely concurred in the se)ection of
the three first designs which were selected for pr zee. The
course he proposed to take with regard to these designs
was this :—A great number of models had been sent in
for the Wellingtori monument-50 from British and 40
from foreign artists. At soon as they were set up in
Westminster Hall the designs of the three prizes would
be fixed in the hall, so as t, give the members of the two
houses of Parliament and the public an opportunity of
considering them. His eon. friend took a different and
perhaps a more enlarged view of this question tlan he
did. No doubt his view, if carried out, would give as
fine a scene as could bee conceived for any metropolis ;
but looking at the House of Commons— (laughtee)—
aed to the vote come to the other evening, be did not
think such a scheme as that would meet with much suc-
cess. It would add 1,500,000/. to the amount which
would be required. He had contented himself with
taking a smalier portion of ground than his hoe, friend
proposed to take. If the prize plans-were not disapproved
of by the members of the Legislature and the public, he
should endeavour, during the recess, to get estimates, as
near aecould be given, of the interior arrangements of
the Foreign-office and SVsr-office. He then proposed to
have drawings made, which would be placed in the hands
of the mest eminent builders, who were to state what
would he the ultjmate cost of these erections. Ile saw no
reason why a person holding the office he did snouel not
be able, by the exercise of common, sense and judgment,
and taking those preliminary precautions which gerele-
men ecercised when they erected buildings for them-
selves, to give something like a guarantee that the build-
ing should be erected for a certain definite sum, besides
a emu to meet oreinary contisgoncies. That was the
course he proposed to take, and he hoped it would be
acceptable to the house. (Rear.)
Mr. BRISCOE suggested that in addition to the plans
models sttoul i be prepared, as they would enable the
public to judge correctly of the designs.
Mr. BAIL LIE wished to know what were the inten-
tions of Government with regard te Westminster-bridge?
Sir B. HALL hail stated some time ago that when he
received the answer 01 the judge., he would take into
coeeideration what was to be done about the bridge. He
hoped next week to be able to state their intentions.
Mr. R. D. MANGLES admitted it was very desirable
to tnrow open the Thames to the park, but before they
could do so with any comfort or decency they should purity
the river. It was impossible to speak in language suffi-
ciently stroug of the present aboininatioes—it was ifla-
pos,it.le for any man wh ) had any regard for his comfort
or his nose to travel on it ; he bad occasion to come up
by host on one ef the late hot days, anti when the stream
was st teed up, the stench, not merely at the points where
the dra'ne emptied, but from end to end was so abomi-
nable, and the odour so bed, that it was absolutely dan-
gerous to beulth. lie was determined never to travel
fey it in summer again, and he understood that the hen.
member far Richmond (Mr. Rich) was made seriously
ill last year by a single voyage. (Laughter.) It was a
scandal to have such a mawnificent river turned into an
open sewer. (Hear, beer.) He trusted vigorous measures
ee uld be taken to remedy the evil, and no expense
would he too great to attain that object.
Sir J. SHELLEY wished to know when the Chief
Comini.sioner of Works wool I return the sewage plane
to the Metropolitan Board of Works ?
Sir B. HALL said he would do so as soon as the pleats
prepared by the Beard of Works for diverting the sewage
from the river by making an intercepting sewer were
bud bet we him, : s required by the act. He had re-
ferred them to a commission of three engineers, includ-
ing Captain Galton and Mr. Simpson. He had seen
one of those gentleman a few days ago, and he was in.
farmed they had taken a great deal of evidence, and
hoped to have their report ready in about a fortnight.
The moment he received it be would forward it to the
board, and also lay a copy on the table of the house.
Lord ELOHO hoped some steps would be taken to
improve the opposite side of the river. The block of
buildings there was a perfect disgrace to the metropolis.
He would suggest that the Government should endea-
vour to buy up the property, aed no doubt when trio
imerevements at this side were completed the property
wool I then r.se so much in value that a ltrge profit
might be expected.
- - '

Tne subject then dropped, au' the house went into
c ,rumittee.

SUPPLY.

On the first vote,
46,4001. for salaries and expenses of British Museum,
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was his duty to propose
the vote, in , accordance with the usual practice that
one of the trustees should do so. The trustees, as the
committee was aware, were constituted by act of Parlia-
ment, some were official, some nominated, and others
family, as representing different donors to the institu-
tion. The sum now asked was 46,4001.. which added
to the vote of last pepsine, would make the total expen-
diture of the year 66,4001, being an increa-e of 6,4001.
aafropi
ircfneugibn:i
nid,ntbsii,chn:ttsriu,
tgo:hriaireoe.tesan.;ae:
dy,t,i,oia,ancfltaoth6tighlieoeueeodelfirsa.re tsettoe, n„dti,o
"salaries"
t house
th e e x , e n s e 0 , „
on that of the previous year. He could, if necessary,
Riot out the various items in which the increase took
place. but be thought the committee would be satisfied
dthifferearewutashaenadinscorfeaexse-
t increaseh°e
bookbinding, tt:
cabins
there was
aeasbt
increase4i l
n,i6rd
ewsao,hßl e.4a;cd.only under'therepurchaseso l the h
wase
Oh head aa and
ndtdhoede.
crea-e, 3,1651 ; and a decrease of 1001. in the 'niece!.
laneoua ctiargss, making the net increase 6,4001., as he
had stated. The great increase in the item of salaries
was owing to the increase of the Museum and the open.
ins of the New Reading Room. The committee was
aware that some time back, alter much discussion and
consideration, a sum of 150,0001 was voted for the pun-
pose of increasing the space for the library and giving
sufficient room to students ; in pursuance of that vote •
building of great beauty and magnificence had been
erected ; the dome exceeded that of St. Peter's in dia.
meter by one foot. A matter, however, of even more
iiupor atice than its beauty was the great amount of con.
venience it afforded. The tables were so arranged Si. to
r she
e might
yea pear
provide most convenient seats tor 300 pereons ; there wail
room round the waits for 80,000 v.lumes, but in the
Hl aces ..round the building o
call them, there were about twenty five miles of
year the number already p
was very great. Last y
shelves. The increase
in
ear
10,000 volumes had
the
suburbs, a
elibrary a
y every
sented under the C.P.Yright Act wag 3,000 in exam
been adueil, and this re-
of the same period 14. t year. The library was now
become a great national institution, equal almost to
any other in the world, and considered as a place for
the PurPcses of study, for superior to any similar esta-
blishment. The museum bad also been adapted for re-
ceiving additions to the collection of antiquities, and
very large additions bad been made to the Assyrian,
Greek and Roman collections. The Natural History
cAlection had also been increased to a very large extent.
The question bad also been raised whether all these
:olleettuns should be retained in one place. That Rh;
a matter with which the trustees bad nothing to do.
their duty was to preserve and make as useful as poi-
elble the collections the public badplaoed in tbeir hands.
The accounts before the hops° showed that atom

350,000 persons had visited the Museum during the year
which was a proof bow fully the public availed them-
selves of its advantsge. A question bad also been rare d
whether it should not be open on the Sou, lay. ( H ear.)
The house, however, had oecided in the negative by a
very large majority, and the tru;tees ha I nothing to do
but to carry out their decision. The Museum la:1 bee:
very much increased by amateurs from time to time
The late Sir W. Temple, our minister at Naples, a mar,
of, great taste and intelligence, made a I irge
collection
of Greek and Roman antiquities, for which he bad pecu-
liar facilities, and bad left the entire to the Museum.
(Hear.) He did not think it was necessary for hire. to
trouble the house further, but he would be:ready to give
any explanation which might be required. It would be
only fair to mention that some complaint had been made
that the subordinate officials were not paid in the same
manner as in other similar establishments. The trustees
had requested the Treasury to send some persons to in-
vestigate the subject, The gentlemen appointed had
'held the inquiry, but had not yet made their report.
Until that was done the trustees could take no step,

and the persons lately engaged were paid on the old
scale. In conclusion he begged to move the vote.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS observed that a large balance
was carried over every year; he wished to know whether
that remained in the Treasury or was drawn out and
placed at the disposal of the trustees ; be complained
that the Museum was only open three days in a week ;

it ought to he open every day. (Hear, heir.)
Mr. B. WILLIAMS objected to the item of 5,0001.
for gilding the dome of the New Reading Room. If
the dome was so magnificent as stated by the noble lord,
it ought not to require any gilding.
• Mr. M. MILNES admitted that great accommodation
was now afforded to students, but unless something more
was done a large number of persons woul I be deprived
of the benefits of the institution, as there were many
persons of high distinction in literature who could not
bring themselves to study in a public room. Under the
former arrangement no accommodation was provided for
such persons, but he hop-d that the trustees would now
take such steps as would afford the requisite convenience

for at least a small number of these persons ; in every
foreign country these conveniences were provided. He
had still to complain that no arrangements were made
for lending out books at this or any other of our public
libraries.

Mr. LOCKE had, on the occasion of the discu.sion
on the Kensington Museum, complained that the work-

ins classes had no facilities for visiting these institutions,
as they were all shut on Sunday. The hon. member for
Hertford (Mr. Cowper) met the objection with regard to
the exhibition at Kensington by stating it was open in
the evening three times a week. He (Mr. Locke) gam
no reason why the same rule should not be applied to
the Museum. (Hear, hear.) There were some diffi-
caltles in doing so with regard to the library, but under
the present system it was only those who devoted
themselves to literature as a pursuit, or who had the
day at their disposal, who could enjoy any of its ad-
vantage. With regard to other portions of the Mu-
seum, there was no reason why they should net be opee
in the evening ; but even if that were done, it would be
no great boon to the working cla-see to open it to them
when they were exhausted by the toils of teeday. To give
them the full benefit of the institution it should be open-
ed on Sunday, at such hours as would not interfere with
divine service. (Hear, bear.) It was a fa.lacy to suppose
such a step would necessitate the employment of any
great number of persons on Sunday ; he was informed
twenty would be the outside number. At present the
working classes were put to considerable expense to get
to any of the public places which were open on Sundays,
as they were all out of town, and their travelling re•
quired the employment of a very considerable number.
If the noble lord would promise to turn his attention to
this matter a great step in advance would be made.
Mr. CHILD i'Ve no advocate for opening the Mu-
seum on Sunday, but it ought to be accessible to the
public in the evening. He wished to suggest to the
noble lord that means should be devised to enable the
public generally to view the cake ion of prints and en-
gravings. They were now in pertfolioe, and could not
be seen without a special order ; if room was wanted for
displaying them, they might be placed in the portion of
the National Gallery now occupied by the Royal Ace-
dewy.
Sir J. TRELAWNY suggested that members of the
Jewish persuasion should be engaged as attendants on
Sued iys,
Mr. BAXTER wished to remind the committee that
the Museum was now open on Saturday. With regard
to opening it on Sundae, the house had decided the
point last year by a great majority. The present was
not a proper occa-ion to raise a discussion on a question
in which the feelings of the country were so deeply in-
terested. If hon. members wished to t eit the feelings of
the new House of Commons, they ought to bring for-
ward a substantive motion.
Mr. STEu.ARr was glad to see a disposition evinced
to shorten the hours of labour by what was termed the
Saturday half-holiday movement, and would he sorry to
see any change at the British Museum which would tend
to interfere with that movement. Stilt more should he
regret to see the MUSellirl opened on Sunday.
Sir H. VERNEY behoved that nothing would tend
more to the injury of the working classes than the dese-
cration of the I,,rd's day ; and those who felt most in-
terested in thes,r welfare were most anxious to preserve
it for them.
Mr. INGRXII. thought that before they talked of
opening the British Mu9eual on Sunday they should en
de ;your to secure the opening of some portion of it every
day in the week.
Mr. JOHN LOCKE said the hon. member opposite
(Mr. Steuart) had talked about a working man's halt-
holiday. Until he could show that the eaeloy-ers. of the
metropolis were prepared to pay a full day's wages for
half a dey's work the less he said about the matter the
better. Another hon. member (Sir H. Verney) hail
talked about the desecration ef the Sabbath. There were
two opinions as to what constituted a desecration of the
Sabbath. He himself considered that it was no de•:,e-
oration for a working man to walk into a place like the
British Museum and 1 els at the words of art which it
contained. The Ninevite remains constituted a better
commentary on the Bible than many of the comment),
ries in writing, and great benefit was derivable from the
study of the works of art generally, and from the natural
productions which were to be seen in the Museum.
S.r H. -VERNEY thought there could be no question
that if there were no Sunday at ell the working claims
would not get one farthing more for their labour than
they do at present.
An HON. MEMBER recommended that the British Mu-
seum sheted he e,pencti in the evenings during the week.
Mr. STEUART said, in reply to the challenge of the
hop. member opposite (Mr. Locke), ho would observe
that the grants for general education, and for education
in the fine arts, which bad been increasing from year to
year, were based on the principle that skilled labour
was more valuable than uroltil,ed ; and, believing the'
55 hours of the former are at least equal to CO hours
of the latter, he thought that it a Saturday half hol day
should hereafter become general, wages would not be
„lowered in consequence.
Leal J. RUSSELL said that the whole question of
thriving open the Museum, as far as practicable, had
(coupled the attention of the trustees since the discu--
sion of the question last ysar in this boos. Oa that oc-
casion he stated what were the days on which the
Museum was open, namely on Mondays, AVednEs lays,
and Thursday, and on Tuesdays and Fridays to those
who wished not to view, but to study works of art or to
make:copies of them. After the discussion which took
place last year, be, being one of the trustees, sliced be-
fore the committee a proposal with regard to those days
on which the trustees might, of their own authority,
throw open the Museum, and they were quite uneri.
moui that if the Museum was thrown open to the
general public on Tuesdays and Thursdays it would he
tVreme`y useful for thieo who attended the Museum
for the purpose of study. That wes the opinion of the
trustees ; and not satisfied with that, it was decided
that the opireoo of the officsra of the Museum should be
obtained. That was done, and it was in accordance
•with that of the trustees. Upon the question of open-
ing the Museum in the evening with regard to which the
• hon. member for Sheffiel I made a suggestion last year,
the trustees were of opinion that there was so much
danger from fire,. that, considering the valuable contents
of the building they were not justified in introducing gas
or any other light into it. With respect to the number
of days, he expressed great doubts whether, even if it
were open every day in the week, those persons who
could not find time to visit it on Monday, Wednesday,
and Friday, would be abie to do so on the ether three
days of the week. The trustees did not consider the
question of opening the Museum on Sunday was one
for their consideration, but for that of Parliament,
and of course it was competent for any hon. gentleman to
bring forward a motion upon the subject, but the cone-
mitte must be aware a discussion could nut be attended
with any result taken on this vote ;it mu-t be by a
sub tantive resolution. Fer himself he was entirely
satisfied with the reasons which te noble lord at the
head of the Government•gave last year against the open
in' of the buildings on Sundays, end therefore it was ri,st
necessary that he should go iiito the question now. The
boo. member for Pontefract had said that it was very
hard that persons eminent in literature, who wished to
study, in privacy, should be obliged to go into a room in
which, perhaps, 250 persons were reading, and be ex-
pressed an opinion that there ought to be a separate
room. He confessed he thought, with the trustees
that there would be a difficulty in drawing the line
(Laughter.) After referring to the gilded dome, about
which a question had been asked, and which he observed
was considered a great improvement, he concluded by
saying that it was the wish of the trustees to make the
building as accessible as possible to the working classes,
and nothing could give them greater satisfaction than to
see it well frequented by them.
Colonel SYKES entirely concurred that the build-
inn should be as accessible as possible to the masses, and
referring to the Louvre, expressed an opinion that per-
sons who went to the Museum to study for the advance-
ment of their own interests, ought to do so while the
public were admitted. At all events, if days were to
be set apart for them, there ought to be souse system
established whereby foreigners visiting England, or per-
sons from the. country visiting Loudon for a day or two,
should be-admitted 012 application.
The vete was then a.reed to.
On the vote of 23,0001. for the National Gallery of
paintings.
Lord ELCRO drew the attention of the house to the
items for secretary and travelling agent. Last year a
motion was made to reduce the es of the travel-
ling agent, but unsuccessfully,
upon the subject in 1.853 recommendappointment
711:eees committee who sat
of a director, and that he shouldraceitvhee a ha.ndson"
salary ; but not a word was said about the appointment
of a secretary, and yet a secretary had the appoiritnielit
of a secretary, and yet a secretary had be appointed.
with a salary of 7501. a-year, which he „annsd,red ex-
cessive, seeing the very light duties be had top r
wish
form ; and as for the travelling agent, he should
to see that office abolished altogether, for it not only led
to-an increased payment of pictures, but actually pre,