The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-15 00:00:00

the late Government. -He (the Duke of New:AAtte) was "
aware that schemes had been projected for establishing
railways across the continent, and he did not look on them
as wholly visionary, -but rather—looked forward to their
being actually established. He did not think, however,
that any of the schemes yet proposed were of a character
to be entertained. But a minor scheme had been proposed
*hich embraced a system of postal communication across
the continent by means of the lakes and roads. He was
ataious to 'ive every possible encouragement to such a
scheme, but it was only.fair to say that he did not contem-
plate being so liberal with regard to postal subsidies as the
We Government had been, and this scheme involved the
question of a large subsidy, which he thought objection-
able. At the same time he felt the great national impor-
tance of some such arrangement, and would give it every

support.
After a few words from the Earl of DONOUGHMORE, the
subject dropped.
ARMINtk COMMERCIAL STEAM VESSELS.
The Earl of AIRLIE rose to ask her Majesty's Govern-
ment whether they had taken into consideration the expe-
diency of entering mto arrangements with persons or com-
panies owning steam vessels other than those which carry
the mails, for the purpose of rendering such steam vessels
capable of carrying armaments of heavy guns if required.
He said it was well known that steamers which re-
ceived Government subsidies to carry mails were under en-
gagement to carry armaments, and to be placed at the ser-
vice of Government for warlike purposes if required
There was a very prevalent impression that the contract
that these steam vessels should be so constructed as to be
capable of carrying armaments had not been fulfilled. As
it had been arranged that certain steamers--commercial
steamers—should be so fitted as to be able to carry
heavy guns, why should not the same arrangement
be applied to other steam vessels as well as those which
carried mails ? The steamers which carried mails had a
Government agent on board, but he did not know if it was
his duty to see if the vessel was seaworthy ; but under the
Passengers Act the Government had the power of ascer-
t*ining whether any steamer which carried passengers was
seaworthy. The service of large steamers carrying mails
was of great importance to the public ; it was important
that the mails should be regularly transmitted, and the ser-
vice liable to no interruption. A strong case, therefore,
ought to be made out before the Government should take
these vessels for warlike purposes. There had been lately
published a pamphlet, by a gentleman whose opinion was
of great weight on all matters relating to steam navigation
-.Mr. Laird. That gentleman said that many steam-
vessels employed in the coasting trade of a smaller descrip-
tion might be used for warlike purposes, and be useful m
defending the coast, and the mouths of great rivers like the
Mersey, which were now unprotected. Mr. Laird had
made an estimate of the cost of fitting these vessels for war-
ble purposes. His scheme was that the vessels should be
made so strong as to be capable of mounting heavy guns,
and he proposed to fit out 200 of these vessels so as to serve
as gunboats. Mr. Laird put the cost of building and fitting
200 gunboats at £1,200,000, and the annual charge for
keeping them he put at 10 per cent. of the cost, or £190,000.
The cost of fitting vessels already in existence as gunboats
would, he calculated, be £2OO each, or £40,000., and the
annual charge for them at £lOO each, or £20,000. The
difference between the expense of regular gunboats and the
fitting of the proposed vessels for the purpose of converting
them into gunboats was, that the former -would cost ex-
actly eleven times as much as the latter. Mr. Laird, how-
ever, admitted that he did not expect that the vessels so
fitted would be quite so well adapt•W as regularly built gun
boats for warlike purposes. The noble earl then referred to
the manner in which the large number of gunboats which
had been built for the public service had been kept in ordi-
nary, and stated that their condition was such that it would
take six weeks to put them in order for service. It
was not for him to say whether Mr. Laird's scheme was a
feasible one, and if it was carried out in what manner it was
to be carried out. Vessels of that description ought cer-
tainly to be manned in such a manner as not to interfere
with the manning of the regular navy. Men might be got
for that service beyond the age when they would be re-
ceived into the navy for continuous service. It was quite
certain that it was not possible to construct fortifications
sufficient for the defence of the whole of our coasts, and if
'we could we should not be able to man them • while any
fortifications, if they were so situated as not to be efficient,
had better not be erected at all. Some such scheme as this
was Ltherefore necessary, but it was not necessary to go to
any great expense at first, but to try it on a small scale in
the first instance. He would not at that late hour enter, as
he might have done earlier in the evening, into the general
subject of our national defences, but he would content him-
self with putting the pestionof which he had given notice.
The Duke of SOMERSET said that the question put to
him by the noble earl was this : " Whether they had taken
into consideration the expediency of entering into arrange-
ments with persons or companies owning steam vessels
other than those which carry the mails, for the purpose of
rendering such steam vessels capable of carrying armaments
of heavy guns, if required." The subject to which it re-
ferred had been at various times under the consideration of
Government. For many years it had been part of the con-
tract with steamers which carried mails that the vessels
should be so constructed as that they could be adapted to
carry armaments. About the year 1852 a committee consist-
ing of military and naval officers, was appointed to examine
into this question, and they went into the subject with great
care. They surveyed almost all the steam vessels on the coast
of England, and reported what they were fit for, and the
general result of the mquiry was an opinion that it was not
expedient to adapt such vessels to the purposes of war, for
in doing so they would be made less efficient for packet pur-
poses and very inefficient for purposes of war. In 1853,
there was another inquiry, and there was some slight dif-
ference in the report. It was admitted that, after consider-
able expenditure, some steam vessels might be adapted to
carry guns, but that they would not be fit to cope with yes •
Bela of war, but would only be able to defend themselves
when carrying troops and stores. Even that committee,
which was composed of professional men, who looked at the
scantlings of the decks of the vessels, their capability for
the erection of magazines, and all the necessary details, did
not recommend that they should be adapted to purposes of
war. At the same time, some few of those vessels might
probably, at an expense of £3,000 or £4,000 each, be made
available for war purposes; and certain steam tugs, such as
those plying on the Mersey, which were built of more than
ordinary strength, might be armed and rendered useful in
aid of the coast defences. The Board of Admiralty, on
receiving that report, gave directions to have those vessels
surveyed; but, looking at former reports, which embodied
the view.; of able professional men, who had gone into the
question with great care, and seeing that out of 1,200 ves-
sels examined by them only 10 or 12 were found capable of
being fitted for use as armed steamers, he did not expect
much from the inquiry. The large steam-vessels trading
between London and Scotland and London and Holland
would, he believed, be found wholly unsuited to the pur •
poses of war, and to attempt to make them so would be a
waste of money. Considering the arrangements now in
force in our dockyards, which enabled the Government to
produce vessels of war with unexampled rapidity, and fit
them with the requisite machinery and armaments in a very
small space of time, there was the less necessity for looking
to the merchant steam navy for assistance, though as he
had said it was possible that a limited number of small ves-
sels, such as steam tugs, might be made useful in case of
emergency. Upon that point the Government had directed
inquiry to be made, but they were not prepared to re-open
generally the question involved in the inquiry of 1852-53,
the result of which was before the house in the report, to
which every member might refer.
The Earl of HARDWICKE was of opinion that unless
some machinery wore established for regulating the con-
struction of merchant steamers so as to ensure their being
built of sufficient strength to carry heavy guns, which would
materially increase their cost and interfere with the freedom
of trade, it was hopeless to expect that merchant vessels
could be made available for war purposes. Nor was it ne-
cessary, considering the increased facilities for constructing,
arming, and manning ships of war which now existed, to
rely upon the merchant service as an available source.
Their lordships then adjourned.

1 HOUSE OF COMMONS.--(YESTERDAY.)
_ The SimaxAß took• the chair at four o'clock.
t • • , PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Lords' ataendments to the Carlisle and Penrith, &c.,
-Roads Rill, an(l. the Much Wenlock and Severn Junction
Railway Bill, were considered and agreed to.
The following bills were read a third time and passed
Bridport Railway ; Cowes and Newport (Isle of Wight)
Railway; ~Droitwitch Roads ; Hinckley and Melbourne
Roads; Norwich New Street; Stokes Bay Railway and
Pier ; and Swanage Tramway aud Pier, changed from
" Swanage Railway and Pier."
Mr. FITZROY nominated the following select commit-
tee on the Westminster New Bridge Bill :—Mr. Fitzroy, Sir
John Shelley, Mr. William Williams, Sir H. Willoughby,
Mr. Hanbury, and Mr. Knatehbul-Hugessen ; and five
members to be added by the committee of selection.
P.
Several petitions were presented in favour of the aboli-
tion of the Duty on Paper, and of Church-rates, against
the Endowed Schools Bill, &c.
SUBMARINE TELEGRAPH COMPANY.
Sir STAFFORD NORTHCOTE said that he wished
to explain a statement which he had made in
the recent debate on the Red Sea and Indian Telegraph
Company's Bill. He said that in the ,arrangements made
by the Submarine Telegraph Company that a priority was
given to the French Government in the transmission of
messages over the Government of this country. He had
received a letter from the chairman of that company, from
which it appeared that he was in error in the statement in
question,. _

JOINT STOCK COMPANIES;
On the motion of Mr. FINLAY certain returns in con-
nection with limited joint stock companies were ordered.
NEWSPAPERS, &c.
On the motion of Mr. B. CRAWFURD the following
return was ordered :—Tbe registered
United Kingdom, and the number, if newspapers
any,n eof s
theaes rtams ofpsthaet
ld. issued to each for each quarter respectively from De-
cember, 1857, to the 30th of Tune, 1859 ; also of the stamps
at 11d. issued to any such newspapers during such period ;
and a similar return of registered publications, and of
mps issued to them during the same period (in continua-
tion of Parliamentary paper No. 489 of session 1558).
INDIA.
Mr. W. VANSITTART asked the Secretary of State
for India whether the report from the Government of India
respecting compensation for losses sustained during the
late mutiny had been received ; and, if so, whether it was his
intention to lay such report on the table of the, house.
Sir C. WOOD said that the report alluded to had been
received, but he objected to stating at present when it would
be convenient to lay it on the table of the house.
FLOGGING IN THE ARMY AND NAVY.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS moved for a return of the number
of persons flogged in the British
navy in the. year 1858',
specifying the name of the ship, the offence, the sentence,
and the number of lashes inflicted on each person, whether
by court-martial or not (in continuation of Parliamentary
paper, No. 41, of the session of 1859.) Also, for an
Address for return of the number of persons flogged in
the army and militia of Great Britain aad Ireland in the
year 1858, spec_ifyin; the offence, the regiments, the place
or station at the time, the
sentence, and the number of
lashes inflicted each parson.
SUBMARINE TELEGRAPH COMPANY
Sir S. NORTHCOTE moved for a copy of e-e'rrespon-
deuce between the Treasury, the Foreign-office, and Office
of Woods, &e., the Admiralty, and the Submarine Tele-
graph Company, on the subject of the recent convention
between that company and the French Government __

Ordered.
SHERIFFS' COURTS IN SCOTLAND.
In reply to Lord DUNCAN,
The LORD ADVOCATE said that he understood there
was no item in the estimates for the present year for mak-
ing a provision for the Sheriffs' Courts in Scotland, and he
believed that an Act of Parliament would be necessary in
()War to enable Government to do so.
TRINITY HOUSE.
M'r. HUGESSEN moved for returns of the annual
amount of earnings returned by the Trinity
House pilots
resident in the towns of Dover and Deal respectively, from
the year 1864 to the Ist January, 1869.
LONDON CORPORATION BILL.
Sig J. SHELLEY gave notice that in the event of the

house going into committee on this bill,-hetwould-move that
elections in the London Corporation should be taken by
ballot. The hon. baronet shortly after rose and asked if the
Government did not consider it would- be unadvisable to
proceed further with the bill during the present session,
as it would inevitably meet considerable opposition.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said he understood that there would
be no general opposition to +he bill. His present wish was
to appoint a day, that would afford an opportunity for the
full discussion of the bill.
WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.
Mr. E. JAMES asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department whether any information had reached
her Majesty's Government, to the effect that more than two-
thirds of the provincial and local standards of weights and
measures had been used more than 20 years without re-
verification, and that the same were defective and un-
just, and could not be relied on as tests of accuracy;
that such standards, nevertheless, furnish the legal means
and evidence by which the integrity and accuracy of the
weights and measures used byte tradesmen for commer-
cial purposes are ascertained and tested ; that legal convic-
tions take place, and penalties are enforced, for non-confor-
mity to such standards • and, if so, whether her Majesty's
Ministers intended to take any steps for the prevention of
so great an injustice.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that during the last 20 years
means had been taken for verifying local standard weights
and measures with the fixed standard.
Mr. WALPOLE wished to know if the right hon.
baronet had any objection to introduce a bill on this subject.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that he had not, but it must first
be determined whether the expense of the reverification
should be defrayed by a voteof the house or by local bodies.