The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-28 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONEON,

; but when the right hon gentleman talked of the rights of
the native princes, he should remember the wrongs of their
subjects. The subjects of the King of Oude were kept in
subjection by means of our forces; wa had a resident there
, and troops also, and we were responsible for every act done
there. If we bad withdrawn from it, the result would
have been complete anarchy ; and Lord Dalhousie, think-
ing that such a state of things as existed in that country
ought not to exist under our rule, thought it better to annex
the kingdom in the manner in which he did. He (Mr. V.
Smith) would not now enter into the question of whether
it was done in the best mintier or not, but he believed it
had been with the least possible offence to the feelings
of every one. The allowance to the Sovereign was large;
and since the annexation there had been a great improve-
ment in the social condition of Oude. Theright hon. gentle-
man had assumed that the mutiny in the Bengal army arose
among the Oude sepoys, and that because they were dissa-
tisfied with the annexation of Oude. The right hon, gent le-
man might be correct when he said that there were 70,000
Oude sepoys in the Bengal army; he (Mr. V. Saab) thought
that that statement of the number must be erroneous
but he would take it to be correct. If there was discont tot
among these sepoys, it was because they had had a mono
poly of patronage in Oude. Tho Oude sepoy, after he had
enlisted, if he felt himself aggrieved, communicated with
his friends in Oude, who went to the British resident and
he got redress at once ; and, in short, he enjoyed a mono-
p -dy of the re tress of grievances. But when the right bon.
gentleman said that they were withdrawn from their
homes, he could assure him that the contrary was the fact.,
for most of them were quartered in Owle, an .1 whatever
discontent they felt was caused by the withdrawal of the
monopoly of patronage which they had hitherto enjoyed ;
but he hoped that when they saw the improved condition
of their country under the new system they would be more
contented. One of the commissioners who W.lB sent to
Oude, Mr. Jackson, was now in England, and he brought
with him the latest accounts, which went to show that a
great improvement had taken place in the condition of the
country. He thought he had shown that the attempt of
the right hen. gentleman to connect this subject with the
mutiny he-1 failed. The right hon. gentleman then pro-
ceeded to tell them of the warnings which the Govern-
ment had received on this subject, and finding nothing
about- them in the papers, of the meagreness of which he
complained, he said that there must bo something kept
back. If he (Mr. V. Smith) could have produced more
papers, he would have done so. He had presented papers,
in accordance with the motion of the Marquis of Clanri-
car-le, in the House of Lords, from the Ist April, 1837.
Sir J. PAKINGTON —The enclosures were not pro-
duced.
. Mr. V. SMITH—The enclosures, which were very volu-
minous, were not produced, because there had not been time
to get them painted befell) the motion of the right hon.
gentleman came en. The right hon. gentleman did not pre-
tend to say that he wanted the papers for which he had
moved ; his only desire being to have an opportunity of
stating his views on this question. W hen, however, it aas
said that the Government must have had information on this
subject, he begged leave most positively to deny it. The
right hon. gentleman had spoken of the transmission of the
" pancakes" all through India, but the transmission of
them had been confined to the native villages, and they
had not been sent to any of the troops; while as to the
troops refusing their furloughs, it was only in the cave of
one regiment, and that took place in April, 18-37, and it
could not be said to hive been a warning to the govern-
ment, who did not knew that it had happened until May.
Another allegation of the right hon. gentleman was, that
the troops never thought of revolting until they heard of
the wars with Persia anti China, and the consequent with-
drawal of European forces ; but if so, the time was pecu-
liarly ill-chosen, for the revolt occurred just when the war
with Persia was over, and the European troops returning ;
and as to the war in China, no European troops had been
sent there from India. As regarded warnings on the sub-
ject, which had been given to the government by the
government of India, he was prepared utterly to deny that
any such warnings had been given ' • not the slightest indi-
cation of any disaffection among the troops had been sent
home, or appeared in any paper which had been received
by the government. On the contrary, the most perfect
reliance on the troops was expressed, and in that remark-
able minute of Lord Dalhousie, in which, on going through
all the questions relating to India, the noble lord devoted
only one sentence to the army ; but that was a striking
one, for he stated there had never been an army in a
better condition than our sepoy army. The right hon.
gentleman still persisted that there had been some such
warning. Well, would he take the farewell address of
Sir William Gomm? (Ironical cheers.) In that address
Sir William Gomm said there never was anything like the
discipline of that army—that it was in a most admirable
state of discipline. Sir William Gomm was the corn-.
wander-in-chief appointed by the Duke of Wellington, and
during the five years he held that office he found no fault
with the army, apd said that from their exemplary ob-
servance of discipline and their actual state of efficiency •
they were troops of which any service might be proud.
(Hear.) And teen with respect to what' the right hon.
gentleman had described as Sir C. Napier's fiery autho-
rity. That gallant officer was' a man of very eminent
ability, but of considerable eccentricity and some incone
sistency, and if his opinions were (see-mined in detail some ,
papers might be discovered in which he spoke very fa.voer-
ably of the sepoys. (Hear, hear.) He said that in many
respects the, sepoy was the finest soldier in the world—that
as a young man he was good in action—that as a veteran
he was good is experience—and when he contrasted the
sepoy with the Europeans, he said that the sepoys beat
them in height although perhaps not in breadth. Sir
Charles Napier had been quoted as an authority with
respect to - the- Bengal •army. He had served also in the
Bombay army and -the &in& army. Whilst in the Ben -
gal army he objected to the promotion entirely by seniority
of native officers, and preferred the system which prevailed
in the Bombay army. He, however, never made that
alteration in the Bengal army, although when commander-,
in-chief he might have carried into effect such changes as
he thought desirable. Sir Charles Napier bad never come
out as an authority until after the publication of his
memoirs, and he did not believe that the gallant officer had
ever made any remonstrance on the subject to the Court of
Directors or the Indian Government. He knew it might
be said that Sir Charles Napier entertained a sovereign
contempt for the Directors and the Indian Government—
(laughter)—but still it was not fair to reproach them for
not attending to his warnings when they had never re-
ceived any- such warnings. (Hear, hear.) Now what
other warnings had the Government received? The right
hon. gentlemen stated that during the Russian war the
Government had to much to do to be expected to attend to
India. At that time the Government were constantly
taunted, not with sending troops to India, but with not
withdrawing troops from India for the Crimea ; and the
hon. member for Devonport stated that twenty-five regi-
ments might have been withdrawn. The hon. and gal-
lant member for Westminster (Sir De L. Evans) stated
that the East India Company's army was an admirable
army, and that a portion of the European force might
have been withdrawn from India. A great number
of people were very wise after events had occurred,
and it was easy to say that everybody might have seen con-
tain things were forthcoming. But he did not think
many hon. members had given the country any warning
with rEepect to these matters. • Quite the contrary. He
had asked many eminent and intelligent men who had
come home from India whether they were aware of any
disaffection amongst the native troops, and had been con-
stantly answered " No." What was the opinion of parlia-
ment on the subject in 187,3? A committee sat in 1852,
during the administration of Lord Derby. The question
of the Indian army was discussed. The evidence of Lord
Melville was taken, but nothing was recommended to be
done with regard to the Indian army. In 1853 the India
Bill was passed, and a clause was inserted giving addi-
tional power to the Board of Control to increase the
European army. Now, great jealousy had always been
entertained respecting any addition to the Queen's troops
in India. That jealousy displayed itself on Hr. Fox's bill,
and had been felt ever since that time, and the number of
Queen's troops was always limited to 20,000 men. An-
other- consideration connected with this subject was that
of finance. The right hon. gentleman stated that the
finance of India bad this peculiarity—that it admitted of
no addition. There were no means of diminishing the
expenditure. A late Governor-General, now in the House
of Lords, said that he had tried every means of dimin-
ishing the expenditure, and found it impossible to do so.
The right hon. gentleman went at some length into the
causes of the late mutiny. He bad no desire to blink that
question, but should have considered it unadvisable to
enter into it had he not been forced to do so by the remarks
of the right hon. gentleman. It was quite premature to
say what were the causes of that mutiny. The right hon.
gentleman called it a national revolt. Many people con-
sidered it a military mutiny. With the information
at present in his possession, he considered it impossible
to say whether it was a military mutiny or a national
revolt. If it was a military mutiny it was impossible
to suppose there had not been some mismanagement in
the army. At Meerut there was no deficiency of Euro-
pean troops, and the first intelligence that arrived con-
vinced him that there were a sufficient number to quell
any mutiny, and he was surprised at what had occurred
afterwards, What had occurred at Meerut was this.
Eighty-five men were condemned for disobeying orders,
and wore manacled in the presence of their comrades.
Now if any suspicion had been entertained that those
comrades would not submit to such a thing there ought
to have been a sufficient number of European troops to
compel them, or the step ought not to have been taken.
He considered it altogether unaccouutable that there had
been no pursuit of these men over a line of road 35 miles
in extent, and as level as the floor on which he was then
standing. He could not help saying that he believed there
must have been some mismanagement in the affair.
(Hear, hear.) One of the principal causes assigned for the
mutiny was the withdrawal of officers for dvil and staff
purposes. That system had been going on for 60 years ;
last year, in order to obviate the difficulty, an additional
captain had been sent out to each regimentZMany offi-
cers contended that the system which had been so long in
existence was perfectly defensible, and that the parties
thus detached acquired a general knowledge which made
them more useful. Besides, the presence of officers in
great numbers wasi not always considered an advantage.
It was not to the number of officers withdrawn that the
evil was to be attributed. He believed that the natives
were not so much impressed with the idea that we wanted
greattn
esaeeeathheet officers between
to Christianise them as to de-nationalise and de-Indianise
them. The position of parties had very much changed.
He informede
cherth, thatae
too tmffi mess
srea wasy enadr s
theth
contemptuous,emr eea hadt
hba eannd
thea
that they sometimes spoke of the sepoys as " niggers."
( ,Heh of
h
fd e
somev, beenrhar
of e„
and a laugh.) He was glad to find that on
a recent occasion the chairman of the East India Comp. 14
had strongly impressed this point upon the minds of the
yo
m
emnbege;
lwh
eaasr
army.
addressing.
nt
The
thheealteration
I' t
alteration
own a sho
faatnieonbtlhieseetr;
matter which he had been informed did not affect the
,clo
trttoeharmaa
certain
r Canningts Lat
soldierseunu enlist-
ment men
at
thetwh he
°let
made in the Bombay and Madras armies, and he
remonstrance ndce
processions.chhaa dna dnl
lately
beennteg y h.alammaf
aldygnei
ycvagainstoeomnffoffence
neon:ez
it in the Bengal army. The right hon. bad
hg
sa ttvae
nt
objectingno
n
for it by stating his determination not to allow the
mbfp:aariatoldenccedeseions of the natives to be interfered with, and he had
putwhi
chhi swvaeutlod
ho na v
ea ni a
taecrt f
ared relating t
with
such
thea
eh processions.suburban
T police,hat
was a step which reflected the highest credit on the noble
anofta ereitshte before,
purpose That
ofbodyhad
promoting
Eritiotruhegpphetoe
lord. (Hear, hear.) Under the act of 1853 a new legisla-
tive council had been established, which was endowed
English objects without any reference to
the natives, and he trusted that what bad taken place
would be a warning to them not to meddle with the reli-
gion of the people. The right hon. gentleman had alluded
brought
forward
rrawsn d wrbdic E
nh measures did
to the question of education, and he (Mr. V. Smith) should
say that be did not wonder that the natives, who had been
accustomed to see women condemned to the most complete
seclusion, should have been startled at the introduction of
a system of female education. The truth, however, was,
that it would be impossible for England altogether to re-
nounce that policy of improvement which had already
led to the removal of such practices as the sacrifices to
Juggernaut. Cut the same policy had given rise to eon-

aiderable uneasiness in the minds of the people of India,
and should be pursued with great caution. He should
next pass to a consideration of that most important po,nt,
the remedy to be applied to the existing evil. The right
bon. gentleman said that the Government were not send-
ing out a sufficient number of troops to India ; but the
fact was, that they were sending out more than Lord Can-
ning had thought necessary. They were sending from this
country 20,000 men ;, and, besides, there were to be two
regiments stopped in their way to China, and two regi-
ments were to be sent from the Cape, while 500 men were
to be dispatched from Ceylon., He had not the slightest
doubt but that the arrival of successive European regiments
would produce the 'greatest awe throughout India. The
effect produced on Orientals in warfare by the presence of
Europeans was something, be believed, whioh it was hardly
possible to imagine ; and under its influence a European ge-
neral could plunge with impunity into hazards which, with
ariothernnemy, it would be moat unwise to encounter. The
right hon. gentleman wished that a royal commission—
which would of course supersede the Governor-General—
should at once be sent out to India. But it appeared to
him (Mr. Y. Smith) that it would be highly inexpedient
to supersede, at the present moment, a governor in whom
twhtt hhaheedtoyyhhhcoaot
had.
uhdueml greatestdotaimimtntpti,leeispae:tile;sutk—seoeedtshamhttonheifseieotnrgatrkhroiLeeresrov.siwo: trust ; and such a governor
Theo 3
rg
aghinnrel o.eahabcu
amnesty
oedudi
evl
cor-
rectedoosinrtnyedduha
BO: Canning.
inhr
ranntoLhnt
rhei
onerfico.
affes eae contrary,rnionnf
everything in his . power to remedy. He (Mr. V. Smith)
said that with a view to immediate aetion it would be most
unwise to supersede Lord Canning, but it was very possible
that a commission might be usetully employed with the
sanction and under the authority of that noble lord ; and
the Government bad informed him that if he wished for
such aid they would be prepared at once to appoint a com-
mission composed of either civil or military men. The
right hon. gentleman wished that the Queen's name should
be connected with- everything done at present in India,
and he recommended that an assurance should be given to
the people of that country, in the name of her Majesty, that
while the most vigorous measures would be adopted to
suppress the mutiny, humanity and judgment would be
exercised •in dealing with their future condition. But he
(Mr. V. Smith) did not believe that the issuing of a pro-
clamation on the subject would b 3 necessary to convince
the native population that, while the rebellion would be
severely suppressed, the quality of mercy would be-exer-
cised is the subsequent proceedings of the British authori-
ties. It should also be remembered that the Parliament
had deliberately placed the government of India in the
hands of the East India Company, controlled by the Crown,
and that the constitution so established must necessarily be
carried into practical effect. The right hon. gentleman
talked of rapidity of improvement in India, but every mea-
sure which may be devised for that improvement should be
referred—first to the governorof the presidency, then tiithe
Governor General, next to the Legislative Assembly, after-
war Is to the Court of Directors, and, finally, to the Board
of Control. (Hear, hear.) That was the system which
Parliament itself had chosen to provide for the Government
of India, an 1 of course it was necessarily unsuited for
rapidity of action. That was, however, a questien which
must be left for consideration at some future time. Par-
liament might distrust ary of the authorities which it bad
itself established for conducting the administration of
India—it might distrust the Governor-General, or it
might distrust the Court of Directors, or it might distrust
the. President of the Board of Control. And when he said
the. President of the Board of Control, he could not help
remembering that it had been stated by an eminent autho-
rity in another place that a thorough distrust was felt in
the gentleman who at present filled that office. That had
been said by •a nobleman whose authority on Indian
matters he (Mr. Y. Smith) very highly appreciated; and
he only alluded to the subject for the purpose of observing
that the noble lord who had just used that language was
in the. habit of seeing all the disaffected gentlemen
who came from India, that be was known to entertain a
vindictive feeling against the East India Cdmpany, and
that that feeling might perhaps extend to the President
of the Board os Control, connected as he was with the
company and with the Government. In the position in
which he (Mr. V. Smith) was placed, he frequently felt it
to be his duty to refuse claims and petitions put forward
by retired East India officials ; and he had no doubt but
those gentlemen in their disappointment often addressed
themselves to the noble lord to whom be had referred,
and spoke of him (Mt. V. Smith) in no very favourable
language. But he was in the habit, on the other hand, of
communicating with persons who still continued attached
to the company, and those persons invariably shook their
heads and shrugged their shoulders at the mention of the
name of the noble lord. (Laughter.) He could, how-
ever, state that as long as the noble lord should continue
to give such advice as that which he frequently gave, and
should supply admirable suggestions for the Government
of India, he should listen to those suggestions with the
utmost deference and respect, and pass over with
the greatest unconcern any compliments which he might
be pleased to address to him. (Hear, hear.) Passing to a
subject of a less personal and more important character, he
should observe that any deficiency created by the recent
events in the native army of India should be supplied by
the employment of the Queen's troops. But when he
came to the question whether they should abandon the
native army he answered no. (Hear, hear.) It would be
impossible to govern India without the assistance of some
native regiments. He had at present in that country an
army of nearly 300,000 men, and the people of England
would never be prepared to incur the expense of main-
taining one-half of that force. The real remedy for
existing was, he believed, to be found in a reorganisation
of the native troops ; and that brought him to consider
how these troops were composed. The Bengal army at
present consisted in a great measure of high caste natives,
And more especially of Brahniins. Now it seemed to him
that such an arrangeinent was extremely objectionable.
There had been a limit of late to the employment of
Brahmios ; but there ought, he thought, to be a further
limit in that directions--(hear)—that was one of the ques-
tions which would hereafter require the deepest conside-
ration. He believed it was the late Sir C. Napier who had
proposed that members of various creeds should be enlisted
in the same regiments ; and it was manifest that men of
different castes might be engaged to serve together. Men
of high caste and of low caste, and of no caste at all, were
employed in the Bombay regiments ; and the Bombay and
Madras armies formed the best models, as far as they were
yet aware, on which our Indian military force should be
organised, because they still remained faithful to the
'British standard, although he' admitted that it was ins-
possible, after the intelligence which had of late reached
this country, to state with absolute confilence, how long
they might so continue. They took their Waffles with
them. That system might be improved. These were all
circumstances that should be considered relatively to
the different positions of the army in India. There
ought also to be an addition made to the irregular
cavalry. It was a proposition that had been frequently
made, and Lord Dalhousie had sugeeste 1 the withdrawal
of two regiments of the Queen's cavalry, to be replaced by
irregular cavalry. The regular cavalry of the Indian army
had, however,. heen much maligned.
Another point was,
whether the native artillery should be continued. He
had no doubt whatever that it was a vary dangerouis thing
to leave the artillery in the hands of the natives—(hear,
hear) -and he thohght it would be better to confine it
altogether to European soldiers. These were points
which he (Mr. V. Smith),threw out with great diffidence ;
but they involved grave questions that ought to be in-
quired into. They were not, however, questions to solve,
which required an immense stretch of military
genius ;
and, therefore, he had no doubt they would be.satisfac-
torily decided when this miserable affair was over. There
were now in India men perfectly capable of deciding
them ; there was Sir P. Grant, now in command in chief
of the Bengal army, who had been sent to Madras at his
(Mr. V. Smith's) instigation, and who was the first Corn- -
He
pany's officer that commanded Queen's troops. H
wasknowledge
a man perfectly competent to advise in. these tter
,
Then there was Sir James Outrun,
as excellent as a
civilian as he. was as a soldier.
His (Mr. V. Smith s,)
.mof India.
noble friend at the head of the Government of India.
therefore, would not be in want of good advice, if he had
any need of it; but he (Mr. V. Smith) was
quite sure his
noble friend would waive all person al feeling, if it was
necessary for the good of the country, and accept assistance
from any quarter where it was available. Therefore,
though he (Hr. V. Smith) saw clearly enough the immense
difficulty, in the case,
he was not without hope that
the question would be settled. Certain he was the set-
tlement should want nothing on the part of her Majesty's
Government--that no energy should be left undisplayed
by' them, and no means left untried to effect it.
(Hear, hear.) The present was one of the most awful
events that had ever happened in the history of this
W
country. (Hear, hear.) There never was a blow
fell, more suddenly, and which produced
a more profound impression on the public mind,
Indeed, it was impossible to walk the streets of this
metropolis and not see the excessive agitation which
moved the people. He (Mr. V. Smith) thought that the
right hon. gentleman might have abstained, therefore, from
many of the topics on which he touched in the course
his address. The question was one of the greatest import-
ance, and if the house thought anything was wrong with
of
those who had its management, it shoulit devote itself day
by day and night by night to the task of investigation, and
change the circumstances as well as the persons in the
wrong, if it was deemed necessary. But he (Mr. V. Smith)
did nos think it advisable for the house to waste its time
in fruitless discussion. If the house found any deficiency
in those having the conduct of affairs--himself or any
other—they ought to be made to give way ; and he, for
one, would give way willingly if it was considered requi-
site for the prosperity of the country. If they saw a weak
head or a faltering hand in those who held the govern-
ment, then they ought to wrest the power from their inno-
cent but enfeebled grasp. But if, on the contrary, the
House of Commons thought otherwise, he (Mr. V. Smith)
asked them, in the name of their common country, not to
disparage the government—not to enfeeble the hands they
still wishbd to strike—and not to embarrass the under-
standings they may still think fit to take charge of the in-,
terests of the country iu the present awful crisis. (Hear.)
Sir E. PERRY could not admit that the present was an
inexpedient time for the discussion of the question. As to
the mode iu which the revolt was to bo put down, he was
glad to hear of the force that was to be employed.
He wished, however, that more force had been
lreseut discussion was whether, whatle
was so, viz., that the military revolt was
but a reflex of the general feeling of the country. The soldier
ex-
hibited the outset, knowing the effect it would
have had on the excitable imagination of the
natives. Why not have sent her Majesty's war
steamers with twenty or thirty regiments within
ten days of the receipt of the news from this country ? The
believedgeat questionbefor true,
in India occupied a higher social position than in any Euro-
pean country, he was therefore more closely attached to his
family. That feeling was increased by the extensive furlough
allowed. Ho thought, therefore, that the condition of the
soldier entirely precluded any cause of discontent. He 'en-
tirely agreed with all that had been stated by the hon. mem-
ber for Bucks as to the causes of the outbreaks. The policy
adopted by Lord Dalhousie was the real cause of the evils
which hasserisen. The system of annexation had sunk
to native mind.
deeply in It had operated as the enunci-
ation of the same principle on the part of a governing race
would have operated in the case of an European race. In
addition to that, there had been a system of confiscation of
private estates, ou the grounds of bad title, which had created
wide-spread disaffection among the higher classes of the na-
tives. The right hon. gentleman said the policy of annexa-
tion,disgusted the native princes, and quoted the statement of
General Lowe. We were supported in our north-west pro-
vinces, by the Gwailor Rajah, and yet this Rajah could
have no affection for us, as we had taken one-half of his
kingdom from hm. He only supported us out of fear, and
because he was afraid we should take the other half. (Laugh-
ter.) He approved of the policy of the annexation of Scinde,
as he believed th t th • princes of that country had deeply
offended us But it was among the population of India that
the disaffection in regard to anima: ion chiefly ex sted, aiid h
would read tolthe house a series of statements which would con-
firm t at statement, which showed that the feeling was far and
wide in the country. Could it be otherwise Could a series of
lan owners bo dispossessed without feeling aggrieved by it ?
Put the East India Company maintained the monstrous dee-