The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-08 00:00:00

as large as the responsibility devolving upon them Is
heavy. 'We hear it said sometimes that the eadminist
ra-
tion of Indian affairs is falling into the old routine, and
that it is guided by the advice of thoso who- are called " Old
Indians." I believe that all persons, whether possessed of
Indian experience or not, have been led in many respects
greatly to modify their ideas upon Indian affairs by the
events. of the last two years. (Hear.) No doubt those who
have been connected with the civil or military services in
India form peculiar notions, just as members of those ser-
vices at home look at matters connected with theinselvee in
a peculiar and professional light ; but I do not admit that
they alone guide us. I believe that in India, as in Eng-
• land, the best security for a proper Indian administration
is a duo admixture of those who bring Indian ideas and ex-
perience to bear upon Indian subjects and of those who
bring. English ideas to bear upon the same subject; (Hear.
hear.)• lam far from admitting that it would be well, whe-
ther in London or Calcutta, to entrust the Indian adminis-
tration excltisiVely to those who take an'lndian view DPsuch
matters, but. neither can. I consent to hold, what. is • now a
common doctrine in some quarters, that Indian experience
is a disqualification—(hear, hear) —that the best way of
administering the complicated affairs of a great empire is to
come to their congidcrationwithout any previous knowledge.
(Hear, hear.j• • I •have always felt, and I repeat it now, that
there have been in our system of Indian administration
ninny abuses that required weeding out—that there were
many reforms necessary—but I cannot forget that that ad-
ministration As .a -whole • has • produced some of the 'ablest
men and called forth some of the &lest qualitie.s which have
been exhibited in our history. I cannot avoid protesting
azainst a doctrine that has become somewhat common, that,
our administration of Indian affairs has been nothing but a
blunder and fault. (Hear, hear.)
Sir E. PE URIC .ohserved that all the hest, o t ly)ri t e
now agreed that, under present circumstances and present
prospects, the finance's of India presented an alarming as-
pect. Was India 'able to bear the burdens cast upon her ?
If not, and if this country would be ultimately responsible,
it would be wiser and more economical to raise the money
at once upon the credit of England.
Mr. C. BRUCE said, upon the question of the liability
of this country for the Indian debt he concurred in the
opinion expressed by the late Sir Robert Peel in 1842, that,
if the credit of India ecame disordered, that of England
must be brought forward to support it. Upon every prin-
ciple of equity, when the Government of India was assumed
directly by the Crown it was taken with all its liabilities,
and a possible contingent liability could not be repudiated.
The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Friday.

_
SUPPLY.
On the order of the day for bringing up the report on
supply.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he should be glad to know
whether the 122,000 officers and men voted under the head
of land forces included the 12 batteries destined for India.
General PEEL said the 12 batteries referred to were at
present included id the English establishment. They would
he paid up to the time of their embarkation by the British
Government, and as soon as they had departed fur India
they would be replaced by an equal number.
Mr. MONSELL wished to put a question which he had
put the other evening, but upon which some misapprehen-
sion had existed. The question was this—Why were the
officers of the artillery now systematically excluded from
staff appointments? He also wished to ask a second ques-
tion. Three generals were appointed inspectors—the one of
cavalry, another of infantry, and another of the Guards.
Now he wished to know why there was no inspector-general
of artillery. Ile also wished to know why no vote was
taken for a director-general of artillery.
General PEEL said that, in answer to the first question,
he must inform the right lion, member that, with the excep-
tion of three, all the generals of artillery were upwards of 68
years of age. Their ages ranged from 68 to 86. (Laughter.)
/Three only were younger than 68, and each of these three
held staff appointments. (Hear, hear.) [Mr. MONSELL :
But with regard to the colonels?' The colonels stood much
in the same position with regard- to age. (Laughter.) As
to the second question, that subject was now under the con-
sideration of the Government. The reason why no vote was
taken for a director-general of artillery was this.: A
change in the nature of that office was under consideration,
it being proposed to bring the artillery under the direction
of the Commander-in-Chief. The effect of this would be (i f
course he could not go into details) to give the whole of the
duties of the office to younger men, to the increased effi-
ciency of the service.
The report was then received.
On the motion for :I committee of supply,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY complained that a vote which
had been taken ostensibly for the militia was appropriated
to the pay and allowances of regiments of the line.
Mr. J. WILSON explained that this transfer of the money
had originally arisen under the pressure of the Indian
mutiny, and at a time when Parliament was not sitting.
Now, however, circumstances were different, and a more
regular system might be adopted.
After a conversation,
Mr. WARRE wished to call attention to the case of the
gunboats employed in the Chinese war. These vessels had
encountered much risk on their voyage out, and it was a
question whether it would be expedient to repeat the risk
of a voyage home. The second matter to which he wished
to draw attention was the training of the coast guard. Lest
these men should lose their nautical habits, he would suggest
that they should occasionally be sent out to sea for a cruise.
The hon. member also complained of the system of naval
promotion.
Sir J. PARINGTON said that Governmenthad no inten-
tion of recalling the Chinese gunboats. With respect to the
coast guard, his answer was that a considerable number of
the men were already employed at sea in the guardships.
The difficulties in naval promotion had arisen from the too
small number of young men yearly admitted into the navy.
Lately, however, an improvement had taken place in this
respect, and there was every reason to expect it would re -
move ail the inconveniences complained of.
After an observation from Sir C. NAPIER, the house
went into committee.
General PEEL moved that £1,050,000 supplementary
vote be agreed to. He explained that it was required in
consequence of the sending out of extra regiments during
the Indian mutiny, and for certain extraordinary expenses
which had been incurred in the course of the Chinese war,
both of which would ultimately be defrayed by the India
Company.
Mr. NEWDEGATE, in reference to a charge for the
Enfield Factory, stated that the committee of contracts last
year recommended a debtor and creditor account of the cost
of that factory, which account was promised. At present,
however, it had not been produced.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS complained that these estimates
were £600,000 more than they need be.
The vote was agreed to.
Sir J. FAKINGT ON then rose to move the supplemental
navy estimates, which, he Taid, consisted of three items—
the first of which was £193,383 3s. 9d., for the excess of
expenditure arising on the votes for the China war. It would
be remembered that £lOO,OOO had been voted last year to
cover the excess in both services, of which the navy had
absorbed £390,000, which sum he had hoped would have
covered the whole naval excess for the year 1857-58 ; but last
autumn a further deficiency was found to exist in the amount
he had now stated. The second item was £12,000, a charge
incurred by the surveyor of the navy, in employing
additional shipwrights ; and the third item was £27,000,
towards the purchase of some land in Malta. Last year, it
would be remembered that £23,000 was put down in the
estimates by the right hon. gentleman who at that time was
at the head of the Admiralty for this land, and he was quite
justified in doing so, the estimates which had been made to
him of its probable cost being £20,000. Subsequently,
however, a Government valuator went over it, and valued
it at £IO,OOO ; and afterwards a person who came to Eng-
land on the part of the owners claimed £120,000 for it ;
while the Colonial Secretary at Malta valued it at £60,000.
Ultimately, as it was necessary to have the land, the Go-
vernment made an offer of £50,000, which was accepted ;
and it was to make good the difference between the £23,000
voted last year and the £50,000, the amount of the purchase-
money, that this vote was required.
The three items, as explained by the right hon. gentle-
man were put as separate votes and agreed to.
The following, votes were agreed to :
£185,594 to defray the charges of the Secretary of State
for War and the General Commanding-in-Chief.
£356,040 for manufactory establishments, military,
stores, &c.
£1,003,604 for provisions, forage, fuel, &c.
On the vote of £718,088' for warlike stores for the land
and sea service,
n cation by Mr. Ma-
General PEEL said, in reply
ftohraAn the
factories at Woolwich. 573,500 had wen
cartney, that nothing could be moretoa si:itti
s takenfa efiY
shortest-possible time.
many as possible, and in the
Arm-
strong's gun, and measures had been taken to turn out as
General CODRINGTON remark_ ed with
gentleman was not
respect to Mr.
Whitworth's rifle, that the object of that v
s _
remuneration, but a desire to give his time and attention to
rearm for the benefit of the country.
the improvement of firearms
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of £325,072 for fortifications,
Mr.
MONSELL said lie thought it would be inexpedient
to lay out .
anv considerable sum without considering the
effect likely to be produced by Armstrong's gun.
Sir F. SMITH understood that the works at Plymouth
were to be three miles in advance of the.present IVOTICR, but
doubted whether the distance was sufficient. As the sums
voted were limited, he would suggest the propriety of corn-
plains; some works instead of carrying on a great variety.
. Lord PALMEPsSTON had no doubt that Arrnstrong'S
gull must ,produce a considerable alteration, both in the
land and sea service ; but trusted that the Government
would not suspend the works which were required for the
immediate defence of our dockyards. (Hear, hear.)
Sir C. NAPIER wished to know whether any money
voted for Dover was to be expended on completing the
harbour ?
General PEEL observed that experiments were going on
with Armstrong's gun, and it was hardly possible at present
to tell what effect it would produce on masonry. With re-
spect to Dover, it was necessary to carry out some addi-
tional works in consequence of that harbour having been
converted into h harbour of refuge. He thought it most
desirable that Portsmouth and Plymouth should be at once
placed in security.
The next vote was £212,507 for civil buildings at home -
and abroad.
vote included the cost of a building_ at Pimlico, in which
t.
k
The establish-
General PEEL, in answer to Mr. Macartney, said the
the clothing of the army would be p
pose—that of a great central depot for arm.,
ment at Weedon would be maintaineclefor it.s original leo-
The vote was then agreed to.
home and
abroad. expenditure
The next vote was £797,122 for barracks at
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said the enormous.l t
dation, showed that
plaint of the want of barrack accommo
public ii.mney
some-
for barrack accommodation, coupled with t le grea com-
there =lst be a misappropriation
vorf
a
ccommodation being
where. He was not opposed to prof
that in many
General CODRINGTON remarkedhes a prisonsch individual
secured, but the money voted ought to be properly •applied.
bar-
racks it had been found that t p
1,000 cubic feet per indi "id
was only 300 cubic feet,
1,000 COWAN
complained of the great inconvenience
at fo the rule was
lyeretoutlb:e
jected to by the P .
both the troops atnr de thecae
said
dt
hsi n3e,
shhtaaebn
had
di traoerfidt
bus
iel
col
edf t
itScotlandestimate
otland
..
s
General PEE s
London, in '('''s', to
lowest possible amount;. but it was absolutely nor • ' .
build new barracks in
.Glasgow, and in Notting-
any alteration the remuneration till ho
With regard to billeting in Scotland, he did not in-
tendham. in
brought in the Mutiny Bill, and he should then state his
intentions respecting it.
to make
The vote was then agreed to, as well as the next vote,
which was £268,531, to defray the cost of the educational
and scientific branches.
The house then resumed, and the chairman reported
progress.
The house went into committee pro forma on the High-
ways Bill, which was ordered.. to be: re-committed on the
18th.

The committee on the Superannuation Bill was post-
poned till Friday.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the house adjourned at 20 minutes past 12,