The Sun.
London, England, 1857-08-04 00:00:00

SUPPLEMENTAL ARMY ESTIMATES.

Lord PALMELSTON, on br nging up this report,
said it was necessary in the event of the necessity of
embodying the militia, or any portioa of it, between this
and next March; Lord Panmure would lay the estimates
on the table of the House of Lerds fo•night.
INDIA.

In reply to a qnostion from Mr. DISRAELI,
Lord PALMERSTON said that another letter of
Gan. Napier had been found at the Horse Guards rela-
tive to the Indian at my, and he would lay that portion
of it relating to the native army before the house.
Mr. ROEBUCK ridiculed the idea of any delicacy in
communicating the whole of it to the house, after the
statement of Sir NV, Napier that it was published three
years pince
WEEKLY COMMUNICATION WITH INDIA.
In reply to Mr. H. BAILLIE,
Mr. V. SMITH said no steps had been taken to esta-
blish a weekly communication with India.
THE OATHS BILL.

On the motion of Lord PALMERSTON, the orders
for the day were postponed to enable Lord J. Russell ti
move his resolution.

Lord J. RUSSELL then moved the following resolu-
tion—" For a select committee to consider whether the
Act 5 and 6 Will. IV. c. 62, is applicable to oaths ap-
pointed by law to be taken by members of this house at
the table, previously to taking their seats, and in
what manner the said act can be so applied, and
to report their observations thereupon to the house :
That the committee do consist of the following
twenty-five members :—Viscount Palmerston, Sir Gen.
Grey, Mr. Disraeli, Mr. Walpole, Sir J. Pakington,
Lord J. Russell, Sir J. Graham, Mr. Gladstone, Mr.
Attorney-General, Mr. S elicitor-General, Sir Frederick
Thesiger, Sir F. Kelly, Lord Stanley, Mr. foreman,
Mr. Henley, Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Malins' Mr. Headlane,
Mr. Attorney-General for Ireland, the Lord Advocate,
Mr. Dillwyn Mr. Napier, Lord R. Grosvenor, Mr.
Whiteside, Mr.i Cobbett, and all gentlemen of the long
robe members of this house." His lordship said that
the Ba-on Rothschild had been informed that he
could take the oath under the above act ; and it was
in consequence that he (Lord J. Russell) had brought
forward this motion. His lordship then referred to
the act of William IV., which was introduced to do away
with the multiplicity of oaths required to be taken in
the excise and customs, including the officersof the great
departments of the state, and allowing a declaration to
be substituted where necessary. The noble lord, after
reviewing the act, said that oe considered the House of
Commons was a body included within the provisions of
this act, and that a select committee, with the assistance
of the law officers of the Crown, was the best tribunal
to which they could refer this vexed question.
The words of the oath " On the true faith of a Christian"
were never intended to exclude Jews, but a certain sec-
tion of Roman Catholics, and he saw no reason why
the oath should be literally strained against Jews,
especially as Roman Catholics were by another form of
oath admitted members of that house. Mr. Pease,
a Quaker, was allowed to take his seat on making an
affirmation, alter stating to the select committee ap-
pointed in his case that the words " on the true
faith of a Christian" were objectionable to Quakers,
being considered by many of them as swearing.
In the same session that Mr. Pease took his seat, an act
was passed to prevent a similar occurrence, and to pre-
vent all future cavil. Upon that act and precedent he
had named he bad founded his application for a select
committee to give their decision of the true interpreta-
tion of the act, after due inquiry and consideration. It
behoved the house, in consequence of the determination
of the House of Lords, not pass an Oaths Bills omitting
the words complained of, to try if they could not find some
other plan bywhich Baron Rothschild could legally take his
seat.
Sir F. THESIGER said he should not divide the
house on the motion, but he expressed his astonishment
that the provisions of the act should have been so long
overlooked, when it was recollected that the noble
lord had for 10 years been struggling to gain the dar-
ling object of his heart. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and
learned gentleman referred to a select committee ap-
pointed some years since on the motion of Sir W. P.
Wood, relativeto the terms of the oatherequired by mem-
, hers and called attention to the prophetic words of Sir
Robert Peal, cautioning the house as to the probable,
result via., the ultimate admission of Jews into Parlia-
ment, which he said deserved especial attention as they
appeared to be on the eve of a crisis, (loud cries of
"hear, bear," from the Ministerial side of the house)
and he warned the house against doing any act that
might precipitate it. (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.)
The noble lord (Lord John Russell) bad some doubts
then, and again in 1351 when Alderman SAlornons was
returned for Greenwich, that Jews could not be admitted
into that house except by an alteration of the
oaths by Act of Parliament. Nothing more
ridiculous or absurd, could enter the mind of man, than
the idea that by the Act of William IV, Baron Roths-
child could take his seat in that house, and the hon, and
learned gentleman proceeded at great length to point
out the inapplicability of this statute to the members of
that house.
Cd. FRENCH said that the object of the noble lord,
in which he concurred, was to refer an existing Act of
Parliament to a committee, to see whether, under it, a
declaration could be substituted for the present oath.
He believed that the present clause under discussion had
been brought under the consideration of the Attorney-
General by 'Mr. Anderton, a gentleman connected with
the city of London, and that he had expressed an opi-
nion that there could be no doubt as to the meaning of
the clause. Nobody could entertain any doubt that
Baron Rothschild could take his seat under the Act of
Parliament.
Mr. GARNETT said it appeared to him that the
course which the noble lord was prepared to take would
bring the house into conflict with the House of Loree,
and put that house into collision with the courts of few;
now, however much he loved the theory of civil and re-
ligiousriberty, he preferred the mere glorious liberty of
the constitution. He, however, should vote for the
motion,
Lord PALMERSTON said he was not going to enter
into any argument either as to his noble friend's mode
of interpretation, and which hie noble. friend was dis
posed to put upon the act to which his motion referred,
or enter into an argument with the hon, and learned
gentleman (Sir F. Thcsiger) opposite; but he was simply
going to state that he quite concurred with the motion
of his noble friend, as he thought the matter of sufficient
importance to be referred to a select committee; and,
therefore, he would simply acquiesce in his noble friend's
motion, reserving to himself the right to form any
opinion as to the correct inrerpretation of the act in
question, after reading the observations of the committee
which might les expressed is the report.
Mr. NEWDEGATE would ask whether the noble
lord at the head of the Government approved of the
mode of selection proposed, which was a most unusual
course to take. The house ought to resolve in the first
place that a committee should be appointed, and then
proceed to resolve that it do consist of 25 members ;
but in this instance it was proposed to lump the whole
together, and this, as it appeared to him, was a most
unusual proceeding.
The motion that a committee be appointed was then
agreed to.
Lord J. RUSSELL then moved that the committee
do consist of the following 25 members—
Sir F. THESIGER said the house must first deter-
mine that the committee should consist of 25 members,
and that ought to be the first motion of the noble lord.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that that no doubt was the
usual course ; but it he did so in this case, it would ex.
elude all the members of the long robe, who it was de-
sired, should have a voice in the committee; but he
would defer the question to the Speaker.
The SPEAKER said it appeared to him that this was
not the usual course in nominating a committee who
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Lord PALMERSTON said that perhaps the difficulty
might be met by putting the resolution in this way :--
"All the members of the long robe, and the following 25
members." (Hear, bear, and loud laughter )
Sir F. THESIGER said there was very c msiderable
doubt whether the noble lord had permission to make this
motion at all. He did not see why the house should pro-
ceed to select a committee. No resolution bad yet been
carried. (Oh, ob.) If he was right, they could proceed
regularly, and if wrong, he should be corrected by the
highest authority.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the hon. and learned mem-
ber gave a true reason when he said the urgency of the
case required this form of resolution. If these objections
were raised, he must ask the house to consent to his mo-
tion. Redid not think the proposition of his noble friend
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On the motion being put,
Mr. BENFINCK said be confessed he was at a loss to
understand upon what ground the noble lord opposite
proposed to urge on the house at this sort of haste. Being
at the end of the session might be a good argument, but
a 3 be had been strongly opposed to the admission of
Jews, he could not assent to that reason. The nobl'
lord proposed to combine all his resolutions in one, and
his answer was, that if be could not be allowed to do
this he should not have time to do it at all. He would
submit to the Speaker whether the house was compelled
to adopt the course proposed.
The SPEAKER said there was nothing irregular in
the motion made by the noble lord.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that if the -question was put
that the committee should consist of '25 members, that
would he hn exclusive proposition' and no other names
could be ad 4,2 to it. He would therefore suggest that
the question be put in such a form as would