The Sun.
London, England, 1861-08-09 00:00:00

OSBORNE, M.P., AT LISKEARD.

Jr. Osborne, member for Liskeard, addressed his
constituents in the Town-hall of that borough on
Wednesday evening. The hall was crowded, and
th e chair was taken by Mr. Andrew Hingston,
Son.
Mr. OSBORNE, after a few introductory remarks,
alluded to the unproductive character of the late
session, which, however long or however fruitful
it had been in debates, had brought forth very few
measures of practical importance. He was, how-
ever, persuaded that when a Minister brought for-
ward well-considered and judicious measures the
1-louse of Commons was never disposed to place
obstacles in the way of their passing into law. It
was only when no questions of importance were
brought forward that the house ran riot and con-
sumed too much time in irrelevant subjects. They
had, however, shown considerable discretion this
session, particularly in avoiding discussion on one
snbject—he referred to the dreadful civil war now
raging in America, because in treating of such a
topic offence would be given to both parties in Ame-
rica. While on this subject he might say he hoped.
the people of this country would not be deceived
into th.e belief that this contest was at all connected
with the abolition of slavery. He was sorry to say
that those were not the grounds upon which they
were fighting ; and if gentlemen wished to be con-
vinced of this he need only refer them to the mes-
sage of President Lincoln, in which not one word
was ;said about abolition ; nay, by a general order
they had prohibited the reception of any fugitive
slaves by the Northern army. If another argu-
ment were wanted it would be found in the
speech of Mr. Sherman, a distinguished member
of the American Senate, who was formerly a
great abolitionist, in which he declared that the
intention of the Government was not to abolish
slavery, but to subjugate rebellious subjects. He
(Mr. Osborne) believed it had more to do with a
question of money, and he found a singular confir-
mation of this opinion in the pages of Cobbett, who,
30 years ago, predicted the state of things now
existing. In his Political Register in 1833 he
wrote—

" This is a contest between the exporting and non-ex-
porting interests of America; all these Southern States are,
commercially speaking, closely connected with Birming-
ham, Sheffield, Manchester, and Leeds, and they have no
such connexion with the Northern States, and there is no
tie to bind them together except that of a mere political
nature. Here is a natural division of interests. The heavy
import duties imposed on British manufactured goods are
neither more nor less than so many millions a-year taken
from the Southern States and given to their Northern com-
petitor."
He goes on to say that " one day or other there
must be a rupture between the North and the
South." What, then, was the state of things in
America in the year 1861 ? They had seen what
was called the Morrill tariff, probably the highest
ever placed upon British goods by the Northern
States ; and he believed the quarrel to be more
attributable to this than to any question of slavery.
(Hear.) He deplored, as every Englishmen does,
to see the Americans seeking to destroy one an-
other. He feared, also, that a reaction would take
place here ; if the Lancashire districts were pinched
for cotton there would be great distress, and he
could not see to what issue this unfortunate fratri-
cidal struggle would ultimately tend. The only
course, then, for us was to calmly await the result
and abide by our policy of non-intervention. (Ap•
plause.) Reverting to matters of home legislation,
the hon. member briefly alluded to three questions
of local interest, in reference to which he had re-
deemed the pledges given when he was elected, by
supporting the measures introduced; first, the pro-
posed appointment of financial boards for the better
administration of the county rates. The bill,
brought in by his friend Sir John Trelawny on this
subject had not been passed; but public attention
having been drawn to the subject by the discussions
in Parliament, he believed that the matter was in
a fair way of being placed on a satisfactory basis.
In reference to the next measure, he thought his
constituents had been a little remiss in not
drawing his attention to it, as this was
a great mining county ; he alluded to the
Preservation of Salmon Bill. Now salmon
smug cauta Lucy all 11Kea it, UUL
they liked mining better —(" Hear," and laugh-
ter —and then there was one clause in this bill
which affected the mining interest by imposing
penalties for the destruction of salmon. Mr. Kendall
had slightly opposed the bill, but afterwards with-
drew his opposition, and the bill was passed, but
the clause in question was modified, the penalties
having been reduced to .£2O. Practically, how-
ever, he believed the bill would be a dead letter.
The third measure was one in which the ratepayers
of Cornwall were much interested, the Highway
Bill, which had unfortunately dropped. The hon
member next passed to the consideration of Sir J.
Trelawny's Bill for the Abolition of Church-rates,
and ascribed the failure of that measure in a great
degree to the injudicious zeal and too candid ad-
missions of the friends of the Liberation Society,
the president of which, Dr. Forster, had stated be-
fore the Parliamentary Committee that their object
was not only to abolish the church-rates, but to do
away with the State Church, and the result was
that at the last division the bill was negatived by
the casting vote of the Speaker, the numbers being
in the first division 281 against 266, and on the third
reading 274 for and 274 against. Although he was
a member of the Church he was surprised that they
should suffer such a trumpery question to remain
unsettled, and to go on year after year fretting and
worrying those who dissented from the Church
purely on conscientious grounds. His opinion was,
that the question ought to be effectually set at rest.
Sir John Trelawny had done all that it was possi-
ble for one man to do, but it was not in the power
oI any independent member to carry a question of
this kind to a successful issue ; and it, therefore,
became the duty of the Government to bring in
a bill for the abolition of this obnoxious im-
post' (Applause.) Mr. Osborne next referred
to the BankruPteiverßuirall,entthe solitary measure
passed by the Go
It was a very important during the session.
measure, and had been
passed after great exertio part of the
present Lord Chancellor, Lord Westebury. It had
undergone some mutilation in the Rouse of
Lords, but it was doubtful whether the excision of
the clause affecting the appointment of a chief
judge was at all material ; for the appointment was
regarded by very many as a sinecure. Speaking ee '
the ballot the hon. member said he doubted the
propriety of bringing a subject of this kind forward
year after year, for members became tired of the
constant repetition, and the question ceased to ex-
cite the interest it deserved. As an instance of this,
he remembered the last division upon Mr. Berkeley's
bill, when there were only 40 members present, just
sufficient to constitute a house, when Mr. Berkeley
rose to address the house, and on a division the bill
was defeated by a majority of 124. He (Mr. Os-
borne) had always voted for the ballot—(applause)
—because he thought it right people should have
an opportunity of giving their votes as they thought
best—(hear) ; but he had always held that the
effects of the ballot had been exaggerated on both
sides. Those, however, were not the best friends of
the ballot who persisted in constantly dragging this
question before the house irrespective of time, place,
are] other circumstances. He certainly did not think
the year 1361 afforded the most favourable oppor-
tunity for obtaining a settlement of any question of
Reform. After alluding to the minor Reform Bill
bronght in by Mr. Baines and Mr. Locke King,
and to the impossibility of any private member car-
rying such a measure, he said it seemed impossible
even for Ministers to do so. He was one of those
who regretted that Lord Derby was not allowed to
g through with his Reform Bill; because he was
sure the House of Commons would have licked
that hill into some aeceptable shape, and they would
then have had a settlement of this important ques-
tion. (Hear.) Bet both parties seemed to have
treated this subject with a great deal of insincerity,
and he thought Iteteena seemed to be regarded much
in the same light asGoldsinith spoke of philosophy,
viz ,as a very good he", in
the stable, but a sorry
jade on the road." (Hear and laughter
was the consequence Some .) And what
h
' made it a hobby
horse to ride in to office, and then left it—(laughter)
—and the result had been that the great scheme
of
shrunk into the ullipAisia
electoral ki•eferin

dimensions of what was called the " Appropriation
of Seats Bill," which, after all, had been carried by
the Conservative party—(hear and laughter)—
for the Government project was defeated, the
Opposition having treated the bill as Sheridan
said the gipsies treated stolen children ; they had
disfigured it so as to make it pass for their own.
(Laughter.) He was sorry to say that Reform was
at a discount. He did not blame Lord Palmerston,
for he did not believe anybody ever thought that
nobleman to be an ardent reformer. (Hear, and
laughter). Nor was it natural to suppose that a
noble lord who had been half a century in office
under various Administrations would be likely to
find fault with the system under which he had been
born and bred ; nor was it natural to suppose that
a noble lord whose chief attention had been directed
to drawing up Reform Bills for foreign nations
would devote much time to matters of domestic
reform, if anybody had been to blame it was the
Liberal party. Their natural leader was Lord John
Russell, whose name had been associated with all
the great improvements of the age, but who had
been placed in the background; and if the Liberal
party chose to take Lord Palmerston in his place,
it was not altogether to be wondered at if they had
an Appropriation of Seats Bill instead of more ge-
neral and comprehensive measures of Reform. He
did not think the Liberal party were ardent re-
formers ; the end of it had been that the Reform
Bill had collapsed, and he held its epitaph in his
hand. Among the civil contingencies for the year
1860 he found this item—Messrs. Baxter, the Go-
vernment solicitors, for services and expenses in
connexion with the preparation of the Reform Bill
of 1858, £3,608 17s. 2d. (Hear, hear, and laugh-
ter.) This afforded at once the history and the
epitaph of the Derby Reform Bill, and that was
the last he supposed we should hear of it. (Laugh-
ter.) He came now to a subject which had caused
probably the greatest discussion in this session ; he
meant Mr. Gladstone's budget, which he had sup-
ported. He had also voted for the repeal of the
paper duty, not because he was favourable to the
repeal of that particular item, but on political
grounds, because a collision had arisen be-
tween the two houses OR a constitutional ques-
tion, and the sooner they asserted the
right of the Lower House to deal with ques-
tions of finance the more smoothly the machinery
would work. He also supported it for another rea-
son ; he saw there was a great set made by the Op-
position against Mr. Gladstone, and that an attempt
was being made to drive him out of the Cabinet,
which he considered would be a national loss, for he
believed Mr. Gladstone understood better than anv
other man on that side of the house how finance
could be made a subject interesting to every one.
He wished to say a few words on this important
subject. The public expenditure of this country was
really becoming most alarming. (Hear.) He found
the public expenditure for the year 1861-2 was not
less than £76,000,000, and by the Parliamentary
papers, which were confessedly incomplete, it was
ascertained that the local taxation amounted to
£15,000,000, making a total of £91,000,000. That
was a most alarming sum, and year by year the ex-
penditure had been increasing. The hon. member
quoted a remarkable opinion expressed upon this
subject in 1859 by the then Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer in his place in Parliament, so that it was
not an expression of opinion by an independent
member, but by a Government official. The Chan-
cellor said, " Expenditure had been conceded with
a facility which he did not hesitate to say would, if
continued for five or ten years longer, bring the
finances of this country into a state of absolute con-
fusion." That was said at a time when the national
expenditure was not £76,000,000 but less than
69,000,000. What was the state Xof the finances
now ? Why, he found that in seven years the ex-
penditure had increased £20,000,000! Apply such
a state of things to any mercantile concern, and
what but bankruptcy could be expected to result
from it ? The question was one of the greatest im-
portance, and if any reforms were to take place the
first should be to reform and retrench the public
expenditure. He would quote the opinion of another
official—Mr. Laing, the Under-Secretary of the
Treasury, who had been sent out to India on the
uca~uTreasury,
011. TT 1131.711• vv neo. iur. ',mug was
examined before a Committee of the House of
Commons in 1860 on the miscellaneous expendi-
ture, he stated that the miscellaneous civil ex-
penditure had increased to £2,225,000; the
vote for education, science, and art had increased
£930,000 per annum. Now, he (Mr. Osborne) did
not object to a vote for education, but he did object
to the vote for science and art. Because a few
gentlemen were appointed as Commissioners of Fine
Arts, they put their hands in the public pocket and
spent the money on what they called matters of
taste, but which were often enough matters dis-
graceful to taste. Then, too, for extra buildings—
Houses of Parliament—£66o,ooo. They began
with a vote of £753,000, and ended by spending
£2,000,000, besides the bill for keeping the Houses
of Parliament in condition ; and yet the outside of
the walls and the frescoes within were falling to
pieces, and he should be happy if the House of
Commons, as at present constituted, also followed
the example. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Having
referred to other items of increase, the hon. gentle-
man said there was an increase of £20,000,000
shown, despite the sittings of Parliamentary com-
mittees and the evidence given, and yet nothing
was done—nor would anything be done until the
country bestirred itself, and, instead of running
after Will o' the Wisps, looked more closely into
matters, and took up the subject with a determina-
tion to have the abuses remedied. Mr. Osborne
next c ndemned the wasteful and extravagant ex-
penditure of public money at Aldershott and Alder-
ney. To carry out the fortifications they werealso
obliged to borrow £11,000,000. But if the people
submitted to this wild, rash, and improvident ex-
penditure, they could not expect mem-
bers to resist Ministers unless they were
backed up in their opposition by their respective
constituencies. Every Queen's Speech contained
the most pacific assurances with respect to our
foreign relations ; but what was the fact ? Why,
we had a most warlike expenditure, and peace now
was as costly and as expensive to us as war. (Hear.)
And so much was this the case that, when Parlia-
ment began, a body of 63 gentlemen, calling them-
selves "Financial Reformers," got up a paper praying
for a reduction of the public expenditure, and ad-
dressed it to Lord Palmerston in January, 1861.
They stated that "they were convinced that re-
ia 1 exigencies
was
e the
re-
trenchment would prove the truest policy of the
only G-
overnment
t meansat e, o ,of so
af
tmi
sefeytiinngg
tthhee
efixnpaene--
f the
tations of Parliament, allaying the dissatisfaction of
taxpayers, and preventing the loud outcry that
would arise in case ofanotherusrinpfeavt7 Thisable
harvestwas
soirganneyd cbhye6ck3
goodto
thepublic pro
men and true. He did not sign
r it, because if he wanted to say anything he could do
it in his place in Parliament, and he should have
acted very ridiculously had he done so, as the event
martyrs,"
proved. lie watched this "noble army of
as he might call them—(laughter)—and the first
thing on which their metal was tried was a small
affair, it was true—the propriety of reducing the
appointments in the brigade of Guards. The num-
bers who voted were 81 for the reduction and 89
against ; and it was a remarkable fact that the
majority of was actually made up of these
financial Reformers. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)
So that these gentlemen, who roared like patriotic
lions for reduction at the beginning of the session,
concluded it by bleating like amicable lambs in the
Ministerial sheepfolds. (Renewed laughter.) The
fact was, it was no use signing papers ; if they
wanted to have reform they must rouse themselves
and bring the pressure of strong public opinion to
bear upon the Government. It had been well said
by Mr. Disraeli, who ofren said good things hut
seldom did any—(a laugh)—" After all public ex

penditure depends upon public policy." (Hear.)
We knew that it was the fashion in the absence of
any home measures to cry up our foreign policy;
but he (Mr. Osborne) thought there was ono policy
possible in this country, and that was the policy of
non-intervention. (Applause.) And he was justi
tied in this opinion by the speech ofLord Aberdeen
on taking office in 1553. . But what was the state
of Europe at present ? On looking at the lists that
had been wail)* h© found there was no legs than

4,000,000 soldiers under arms in Europe alone. It
was well known that in this country we were build-
ing iron-cased vessels and spending £11,000,000 in
fortifications. And not, only that, but the surplus
of £1,923,000 which had been talked of would be
swallowed up in supplementary estimates. And
what this was to lead to Heaven knew, but that it
would lead to enormous bills and more taxation he
felt quite satisfied. Besides this, we had nearly
£30,000,000 spent upon our army and navy. If
they could not keep the country free from invasion
or the bugbears now circulated with that amount,
what amount would they ask the country to spend ?
These were surely not the fruits to be expected from
a policy of non-intervention. Instead of unnatu-
rally exciting the people with false alarms they
would do wisely to look more closely at home, for,
if this policy were carried too far, they would per-
haps one day find themselves compelled to use the
armaments they were creating. There was nothing
so easy as to inflame men's minds with stories of
battles and to wake national prejudices ; and, God
knew what the issue would be, except that he felt
confident in the ability of his countrymen to resist
invasion. But they would have the national debt
doubled, and that would eventually reduce the
nation to a state of bankruptcy. It was all very
well to say that Russia was an object of suspicion,
and that Spain must be watched ; that France
should be regarded with distrust, and Italy be an
object of sympathy; that they should avoid, as the
most costly experiment they could indulge in, hav-
ing what is called a spirited Foreign Minister. He
had not a word to say against Lord John Russell,
but he wished to caution the country against the
policy which invariably ended in the spirited
Minister dipping very deeply into the public purse,
and could only lead to increased expenditure and
debt. He was of opinion that we were unjust in
our suspicions with respect to the French Emperor,
who had, he thought, manifested a disposition to
cultivate the good graces of this country, as he had
shown by the recent reforms he had effected in the
commercial tariff, in spite of the strong opposition
of the Protectionists, who were more powerful there
than in this country. He had also paid a special
compliment to this country by abolishing the
passports from England. Why, then, should
we be hounded on day after day ? He was
also what was called a peace-at-any-price man,
and he gloried in the volunteer movement ; but
he deprecated the attempt to inflame the pas-
sions of the people by continually pointing to
France as a bugbear, because he would not be a
party to the increase of taxation, knowing that the
30 millions spent on the army and navy were quite
sufficient to keep the country in an effectual state
of defence. After bestowing an eulogium upon Mr.
Cobden, who had merited his country's gratitude
for the part he took in relation to the French Treaty
of Commerce, and praising the independence and
self-abnegation which led him to decline honours
and rewards for his important services, the hon.
member proceeded to review " the state and pros-
pects of what was called the Liberal party"—a sub-
ject which, he confessed, he felt some difficulty in
handling. His opinion was, that the Liberal party
were a set of confirmed invalids. (Cheers and
laughter.) To be sure, invalids sometimes lasted
longer than healthy men—(laughter)--but he
thought change of air would do them good, and
that if they went on the other side of the Speaker's
chair there would be a better prospect of renovating
their principles and refreshing their creed. (Re-
newed laughter.) But what was the cause of this ?
In 1859 the Whigs, it would be remembered, were
reconciled and a Ministry was formed, Messrs. Vil-
liers and Gibson, who represented the more advanced
party, being admitted, like poor relations, to seats
at the lower end of the Cabinet table. (Laughter.)
Then it was said of this great Whig party that
there were no outside men who were fit for office.
If it were true, the reason was to be found in the
exclusiveness of the party, whose system had always
been to admit none but near relations and connexions
within the charmed circle. Whiggery had now be-
come at a discount, and by breeding in and in had be-
come effete, so that if they were now to advertise for
a pure thoroughbred young Whig they would have
as much difficulty in finding one an eaEipe. him al
Lux)yvuuau vr ILIA au iuicla.l. gUL Ina. kliauca iauguter.)
The Whigs, like certain Eastern potentates, having
no issue of their own, had adopted the Peelites—
(laughter)—and the children of their adoption would
no doubt supersede the original race. He was sure of
one thing—that Mr. Gladstone would be the Grand
Vizier of the party and that he would stand no rivalry
on the floor of the House, because he was a states.
man worthy to lead the reform of our expenditure,
which he (the hon. member) was certain he would
do if he were only backed up by the country.
(Hear.) The speaker next referred to the recent
Ministerial changes and appointments. The death
of Lord Herbert and the elevation of Lord J. Rus-
sell to the Upper House had necessitated a recon-
struction of the Cabinet. The Prime Minister came
under the appellation of " a wonderful man," and
had a wonderfully youthful turn of mind, as was
evidenced by his extravagance and the money he laid
out in fire-arms, fortifications, guns, and shows ;
all these were the errors of youth. (Laughter.) He
was, then, a most able man, but a most expensive
Minister, and would, no doubt, go on spending
money as long as the public were content to allow
him. The reconstruction had been a sort of hocus-
pocus. The Cabinet was formed on a narrow and
exclusive basis; but that was the original sin o
Whiggery, and, true to his policy of annexation,
Lord Palmerston had filled the vacancies with per
sons who were not supporters of the Government.
He contrasted the mongrel Whig party with that
of Sir R. Peel. The latter had founded and left
behind him a school of statesmen who were h and-
ing his name down to this day, whereas the Whigs
were a small coterie unable to propagate their own
principles. The hon. member deprecated the ap-
pointment of Sir G. C. Lewis to be War Secretary
as a most unfortunate selection, and contended that
Lord Grey would have been the fittest man to carry
out the retrenchments and reforms that were needed
in that important department, or Lord De Grey and
Ripon ; but they said " No, it was necessary the
Minister should be in the Lower House." Well, if
that were so, they should have selected Sir C.Wood,
who was an excellent administrator. In transfer-
ring Sir G. Lewis from the Home-office to this post
they were acting like the Americans, who made
their best lawyers generals of division, and it was
now seen with what results. (Hear.) It reminded
him of the language of Ingo :

" Forsooth, a great arithmetician,
That never set a squadron in the field,
Nor the division of a battle knows
More than a spinster; unless the bookish thaorick,
Wherein the tongued consuls can propose
As masterly as he ; mere prattle, without practice,
Is all his soldiership."
Then, too, Sir George Grey, who had retired from
ill-health, was resurrectionised back into life and
place.d in the Home-office, while Mr. Cardwell, a
glutton for work, was transferred from Ireland and
consigned to the comparative obscurity of the
Duchy of Lancaster, where he had nothing to do.
He did not, however, disapprove the appointment of
Sir Robert Peel to the Irish Secretaryship, and be-
lieved that the responsibilities of the great office he
had undertaken would restrain the impulses of this
erratic but clever young man. He also approved
the appointment of Mr. Layard as Under-Secretary
for Foreign Affairs,
and hoped he would meet his
deserts, but feared he would have to await a con-
siderable time. The Liberal party had acquired
somewhat of a mongrel character ; the fact was that,
through having lost their natural leader and taken
another, they were in a state of distraction. Their
followers being somewhat discouraged, and the
Ministry divided by their opponents, he believed
that, unless some energetic steps were taken by the
Government to meet Parliament next session with
measures entitled to public approbation—measures
not only for pending,
but for cutting down and re-
forming the expenditure—the task would be taken
out of their hands, and they would be consigned to
the outer darkness of Opposition. (Cheers.) But
he did not despair of the Liberal cause. (Hear,
hear.) He thought yet the old Liberal banner
which in Lord Grey's time was inscribed with the
words, " Peace, Retrenchment, and Reform," would
be once more unfurled. He should be found at his
post, and he trusted that when the time arrived
,they would again send him to do his duty in the ;