The Sun.
London, England, 1857-03-13 00:00:00

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bully ventilated, ee that the sick did we de
tege from them which they might °tame'
Ali these thing era deeply to ho regrette
large peitiou of the e,ils which were e
have been prevented by better areaugern,
the lion. gentleneen is much mistaken if
lose of men in the French army from tu.
less in proportion than our own. There is nee tj
loss of our allies. especially at a later period ,tiee Zer
was far greater than our own—our allies, who arietze
(wwl o:urn ab. tibi teuhLtal
when
to
the cud
oie
nda. stilt lotsgo
eoe
erf
u6o
tr
juTdrtheir tdi
wentoun . y
euTxtheleearetede
ns
and
yod
ey
hey
they did not return till July, before which time the sugges-
tions they made had been anticipated and acted upon.
There were other commissions sent out to the Crimea, and I
am bound to say, without any disparagement of Sir John
efeleTeill and Col. Tulloch, that the medical commission, con-
sisting of Dr. Gavin, Dr. Sutherland, and Mr. Rawlinson,
conferred greater advantages on the army than it was pose
able for Sir John MiNeill and Col. Tulloch to accomplish;
because they took the medical arrangements of the bospi
tals and the camp into immediate consideration, and ea;
gested improvements of considerable importance. There
fore, without any disparagement of them, I am bound to
say that Dr. Sutherland, Dr. Gavin (who unfortunately
died in the Crimea), and Mr. Rawlinson, the engineer, who
was woutded in an action into which he had veutureet-did
in my opinion render far more important services to the
public and the army than it was in the power of Sir John
awl Col. Tulloch to confer. But it is said that it
was a great injustice to them to appoint the board of gene-
ral officers. That board was not appointed to revise their
report. What were the circumstances which led to their
appointment? Certain officers of rank, grant if you will
both social and military, but officers whose repietation was
dear to bias, had left the Crimea before Sir J. M`Neill and
Col. Tulloch began their inquiries, whom, therefore, they
could not examine upon the spot, but with regard to whose
conduct certain statements had been made to them, and
included either directly or indirectly in their report; and
when that report came out these officers, jealous of their
reputation, asked for an opportunity of giving that expla-
netion of their conduct which, not having been, in the
Crimea at the time, it was impossible they could have
given to the commissioners. That did not pass in secret
or without public discussion. It was in this house that
we were called upon to appoint some authority to whom
these officers should make their statement. It was felt
that it was not decorous that they should be writing let.
ters to newspapers in answer to the report of the Cri-
mean commissioners, or making statements in Parlia-
ment. It was felt that the only course just, towards them
would be to appoint some boards of military. officers, come
petent to be judges of the matter, to receive their state-
ments, and hear what they had to say in exoneration of
that part of their conduct which they considered impugned
by the report It was not appointing a board of officers to
sit in judgment on the Crimean Commission; on the con-
trary, it was an act of simple justice to those officers ; and
whets it was done, it appeared to me that both Houses of
Parliament sanctioned the arrangement proposed. There-
fore I submit that the motion is not one which ought to
be acceded to by the house at the present time. The first
part of it records faces which nobody disputes—the saffer-
ings of the army at the time to which it refers. The latter
part consists of censures upon certain officers belonging to
some portion of the staff. I think it would be un;enerons
Si this time of (I,y to go back and censure their conduct,
after that conduct has been subjected to investigation,
when the matters have passed away and gone into the do-
main of history. The hon. gentleman hew expressed a hope
that arrangements would be made for the better instruction
of officers of the army, and that young man should not go
into the army intending to pass two or three years as a
pleasurable occupation, but that officers should consider
the military life the business of their lives, and should de-
vote themselves entirely to the duties of their profession.
That is the case in foreign services ; it is not the case in
ours ; and I venture to think that it never will be so. (Hear.
What is the state of things in foreign countries ? They have
large standing armies, which are kept up in times of peace;
men who enter know that they will be in the army as long as
their health and strength last ; they know that it is to be
their profession for life, and they devote all their attention
to it. In England we pursue a different system. We have
in time of peace a very small army ; in time of war we are
obliged to increase it, and increase it rapiuly. Officers who
enterthe army in time of war must expect that a great many
,e• them will have their services &spells, d eith. A great dif-
ference, too, arises from this—that our service is voluntary.
The services of the contiuen t al e compulsory ; and voluntary
service has in itself a voluntary spirit which pervades the
whole being of the mail. It may have its inconveniences—
no doubt it has ; but it has on the contrary advantages the
loss of which would be dearly purchased by the adoption
of the continental system. Therefore, whatever arrange-
ments the Government way make—and I trust they will
be able to make them—for imparting to military officers
more professional instruction than they have hitherto, per-
baps, had the means or the inducement to acquire—yet,
d :pond upon it, that system which the hon. gentleman
wishes to see prevail—that nobody should go into the army
but those who wish to make it the study. business, and
profession of their life—that system cannot be adopted in
this country. It is not consistent with the nature of our
institution,, with our national character and habits; we
must take advantage of those who go into the army whether
they mean to remain a long or a short time. We cannot be
a military nation, but depend upon it we are a fighting
nation. (Chews.) .Those men, as the hon. gentleman says,
who go into the army in time of peace for the pleasure of
wearing a fine coat, or obtaining amusement for a short
'jinn, a hen the war comes, you find them just as distin-
guished, for bravery in the field—for their endurance of
fatigue, for their submission to all the hardships of the
military life, as the first men of any continental army,
who have been drilled, tutored, lectured, and worked up
into something more like the abstract notion of a soldier.
(Cheers) These men, when placed at the head of troops
in battle, or charged with the defence of a place, were not
superior to ours, whatever might be the differences exist-
ing between them in point of technical instruction or some
of the details of their services. (dear, hear.) I should
hope that the hon. member, having satisfied his mind by
,raking that honourable mention which he has male of the
commissioners, in which I entirely concur, and havini, ex-
pressed his regret for the sufferings of'the army in the
early part of the Crimean war, though he forgot to men-
tion the great improvements in the latter period, I hope
he sat down without saying what he meant to say—(s,
laugh)—l hope that the hon. member will not press his mo-
Lieu to a division, but let us now go into committee on the
war estimates. (Hear.)
Sir J. FITZGERALD considered that the appointment
of Sir John .11.1`Neill ant Colonel Tulloch to inquire into
the conduct of subotdivates, such as the commissary-
general, was in fact a cen,ure upon the commainting officer,
who was naturally answerable for the conduct of those
below him.
General PEEL said he could not agree in what had fallen
from the noble lore. He was aw&ra of. the ridicule to
which he should subject himself if he attempte 1 to offer
.ny professional opinion on what had taken place in the
;;rimes, and of the difficulty under which he laboured in
,peaking of those events in the presence of so many officers
who had witnessed them ; but they might rely on it that
the military profession was just as subject to the rules of
zommon sense as any other. He saw no reason why the
lion. gentleman who hat brought forward this motion,
and other members of the house, should not be able to
judge of the matters in question as well as military men.
de had served on the board of general officers contrary to
cis own wish, for he saw from the first that it would do no
good. He had arrived at a strong opini en that the calm-
mitis in the Crimea arose from circumstances which it
eras not in thapower of any individual to avert. Lord
Panronre had expressed the same opinion. But unfortn-
agely it Was always the practice to try and fix responsi-
elity upon iudivi Wale so as to throw the blame upon
them, He was convinced that Admiral Boxer, Captain
,Jhristie, and Lord Raglan, sal all fallen victims to sense-
, ess clamour, founded on the authority of anonymous (tor-
, respell lents. (Hear.) Instead of attacking individuals,
'se would remodel the system. He did not for a moment
underrate the hardships which the army had endured from
the middle of November, 1854, to the end of January,
1855. It was impossible to do that, or to exaggerate the
eatience and heroism with which they had been sus-
edued. (Rear, bear.) But admitting these hardships,
tie still believed that nobody was responsible for them. No
toubt the commissioner. had done their duty most con-
,eientiously, but the extent of their services had been some-
what over-rated. An address had been presented to them
from Liverpool, ascribing to their exertions the preserva-
tion of the army from impending failure and disgrace. He
must t-ay that the army was never in danger of that.
(Rear.) What were the facts? The commissioners did
it arrive in the Crimea till the lath March, and from that
dine forward the army was in as good a state as it possibly
could be. But it was not in their power by their instruc-
tions to do anything more than to inquire and report. The
only suggestion they hail made was about additional bread
in the rations and quinine. They were sent oat without
the ntention to blame anybody, and they ought to have
confined themselves to a statement of the facts. Hail that
-tatement been accompanied by the expression of an opinioa
:uch as Lord Panmure had come to,-that the calamities in
Uhe Crimea arose from circumstances which nobody could
control, there would have been no necessity for the board of
general officers. He 'was actuated by no personal feeling
towards any one. He had near relations in the Crimea,
but, they were all regimental officers. He was only anxious
to do justice to everybody concerned. (Hear.)
Mr. S. HERBERT said this subject was one of a very
painful character, and he regretted that the question had
r a
s having
desirable passed t o d thrroauwgha
tbheeenserceoripmenceatcsAllmpmaiugsnts,fetehl after
a,
titet
was
veil of oblivion over everything-which would appear to
imply blame or censure. No doubt when an army took
otaiffoeiresshth::nte.:isieTianhey were
the field after a long peace there must be great inexperience,
great difficulty, great confusion. He admitted that the
error made by the Government of which he was a member
was attempting too much with too little means. He
not now called on to try the Chelsea Board ; no doubt the
said frankly that they wtethe
trueree th
autumn thatblame
had acted conscientiously, though they might have fallen
fi
on
rt into
they error.w e r It tmwaadseiiu in
made
ee
rani:
made before the arrival of Sir J. ancl CAL Tulloch,
transport was divided from the Commissariat,
was laid down, and other alterations the railway
took place. It was a
service of great difficulty and delicacy, and he thought it
must be admitted that they performed.thfulness and the painful and invi-
Hoes duty assigned to them witlifa
e
(Hear.) The question was not, whether some officers were relit °r
.
were not to blame—whether the
men who were board _ce
of general
sent
was to blame—but whether
out to the Crim to make inquiries executed their trust
faithfully these two
faithfully and ablcountry and the
and whether the
Crown had markedunmistakeable manner
in a proper and )
the services which That was the
they performed. (Hear.
friend speak
question. He heard with regret his noble
no
) He
somewhat disparagingly of these services. No,
although their re.
understood his noble friend to say thata,dno
higher credit
pert was valuable and acted
uP'spoifiicet'llre who had been sent
than the reports of the medical offices
view. The report of the
out. He could not assent toatinsble mine of information on
eommissioners was a
most valuable
bssed. But was that theonly
which many
„eiee3gy-esewndeured ? He hew d from a medical
service the-drinent he placed confidence, that not
tuan, on whose ufferieg from privation and overwork,
only were the troop
one cause which, more than any other,
but that there w
ud that was the scurvy, which arose from
led to disease' a on Belt meat and hard biscuit. (Hear.)
toe long fee" mg
long feeding on salt meat and hard biscuit the
From too
Ise eine affected afterwardsscury and however great the va-
puns --c' - -which•
rieties of oisease
they were the result in the commencement of that one this-
ease—scurvy. He understood, though of course he had no
knowledge of it himself, that it was a peculiarity of every
commissariat that they issued salt meat as long as they
could, and for this reason that the trouble was only in is-
suingit, and not in collecting it. But Sir J. MeNeill took
lenders to Mr. Filder for the issue of fresh meat and bread,
and though great obstacles had been interposed, he sue-
zee tett its establishing bakeries, by which the troops were
'applies' with bread two or three times a-week. (Hear.)
This proved of great advantage to the men. He said, there.
fore, that besides the report, these were most important
services which were rendered by the commissioners. The
report of the commissioners was a narration of facts; they

[PRwE 4D. STAMPE

that only 2,376 of them were given out, the galtant gent-
rat's account of the matter being that "it was never con-
templated to give soldiers m._re than one great coat,
especially at a tittle when additi,nal warm clothing was
daily exptcted." That appeared to him to be a very
einguler reason; and if those great coats- had all been
issued there was no doubt they would have saved the
life of many a poor wretch who perished, nut of starva-
tion, bat of cell and Exposure. (Hear.). Another point
which still remained unexplained was the issue of green
coffee to the troops ; and' he trusted, for the sake of the
man who gave the order, that his name would never
transpire. (Hear.) Sir J. IVl4iNeiil and Cel. Tulloch attri-
buted the great mortality and distress of the army in the
Crimea to departmental inefficiency. The Board of Gene-
' ral Officers, on the other hand, attributed it mainly to
' the want of forage for the mules and horses of the com-
missariat department. But in any cam the fault must
lie somewhere. Requisitions for fodder had been made
by Mr. Filder over and over again to the proper autho-
rities at home ; and be (Mr. Palk) perfectly agreed with
the Board of Officers that Mr. Filder had a very tangible
ex3use. Sir C. Trevelyan, reasoning for himself, and be-
lieving that he was a better judge in England than Mr.
Filder was in the Crimea, had failed to send to the com-
missary-general those supplie., on which, by the verdict
of the board at Chelsea, the efficacy of the army depended.
The commissioners took a different view of the matter. If
hay and chopped straw were difficult to procure in the
Crimea, barley to any extent might have been obtained at
Constantinople ; and upon barley the baggage animals
might have been supported for months. However generally
free from blame Mr. Filder might have been, there had
been a want of ingenuity and contrivance on his part ;
and he (Mr. Palk) must give it as his reluctant opinion
that, making every allowance for the difficulties of Mr.
Filler's position, that gentleman had failed in those great
ex-rtions which the exigences of the case and the neces-
sities of the British army demanded at his hands. (Hear.)
He trusted that what he (the hon. member) had said had
sufficiently proved the necessity Vera was fora thorough
revision of our military system. If he had the honour of
a seat in the next Parliament, he should be ablitu prove
it by evidence which had latfly been published, that-
the system of officering the Briti=sh army was not ade-
quate to the wants of the. present day, and that: in
order to secure greater efficiency, the house must insist
upon a regular and complete education for the military
life. (Hear, hear.) If that were done, he thought that
without in the least impairing the high cearacter and
gentlemanly bearing of the British officer, a very great
improvement might be effected ; but that could never be
attained while the aroay was regarded as a mere pleasant
pastime fur a few years. (Hear.) The manner in which
the Crimean commissioners had been treated was not
the least painful part of the affair. Colonel Tulloch
was asked at Chelsea, whether the report of his c league
and himself had received the approval of the Govern-
ment I Col. Toll soh thereupon wrote to Mr. Peel, de-
siring to be furnished with a letter to that effect. An
what was the hon. gentleman's reply ? Mr. Peel sale,
that Lord Panruure did not think it desirable to depart
from the couree which bad up to that time been pur-
sued, namely, that the Judge-Advocate should be the
medium of communication between the War- ,ffice and
the board ; that
.all the documents in the War-office
were at Col. Tulloch"s dispersal, but that there way no
formal approbation of his report in existence ; and .that,
finally, Cot. Tulloch might very legitimately refer to a
speech of Lord Patmereton, which would be found in the
140th volume of Hansard, page 156. A most correct
letter. It delicately insinuated that Col. Tulloch ba,-)
been gui ty of a breach of routine ; but it gave him the
information he required. The house bad heard a good
deal of late about routine and red tape. He (Mr. Palk)
did not know inch about the meaning of , the phra-e,
but surely that letter was a good specimen of the. thing
Since the Chelsea inquiry, a banquet had been given to
the Secretary for War by his entb usiastic admirers, at
some place in Scotland ; and the noble lord in a pn,a
prandial speech, made some remarks laudatory of Sir J.
M`Neill. A still more gracious mark of the approbation
of her Majesty's Government had more recently been
afered.to the commissioners—namely, the very munifi-
cent and magnificent sum of 1,0001. each, which, how-
ever, for some reason they had considered it their duty
not to accept. He (Mr. Palk) thought the Government
were bound to have accepted or to have controverted the
report. If they regarded it as unfounded, they ought
not to bare laid it on the table ; but being on the table,
and the noble viscount having expressed his approba-

tion of the document, it was a cruel injustice to summon
a Board of General Officers, not to controvert' the re-
port, but to eualle certain officers to make a statement,
in which they were cautioned not to criminate themselves
—a statement by which they might remove from theit
shoulders all the blame that might attach to them and
by inference place it upon those of the Crimeati C 011113119-
sioners. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving the
I resolution.
Mr. BLACK was very relicts lt to trespass upon the
house, hip. if ile remained inlent,;he should not be acting
--handsomely towards Sir J. M‘Ninll, whom be was proud
to cad his friend, or to waris his constituent., who took a
very deep interest in this question. He had lately had
the honour of presenting three petitions, praying that
some reward ghoul,' be c,mferred upon the Crimean
Commissioners—one of them from the Lord Provost and
magistrates of Edinburgh in council assembled; another
from private merchants of the city ; and the third,
numerously signed by persons of all classes and poli-
tical parties. The Commissioners had done their
work well. They sat 55 days and examined more that.
200 witnesses, and they did not desist till they were com-
pelled by ill health. They took the evidence iu the fair-
est possible maener ; they sent a copy to eaca witness 0
be revise 1; and in only two cases was the evidence with-
out the signature of the witness. The report of the com-
missioners was a vain sble record of the errors and de-
fects of cur military system; and if the martial proeie.,
of men who bad defeated the armies of our foes was liel6
worthy of the highest honours, what reward did they not
deserve whose labours and suggestions might on some
future occasion save the lives of thousands of our coun-
try men I Sir J. M‘Nelll well said that if the Govern-
ment had wanted the inquiry to be a sham, they should
have selected other instruments. But when their report
was laid on the table it was thought necessary tr at :erten,
officers highly connected should be screened The board 01
general ( Ulcers did its work to admiration ; they found no-
body was to blame for tee miseries which our brave soldier,
had endured. The board did not treat the commissioner,
so tenderly, but they made statements which by it.
ference irneugned their conduct. (Hear.) It was sai
that Sir J. lq`Neil and Col. Tulloch had done no uncle
than their duty ; but had Lord Lucas, Ler.' Cardigan
Gen. Airey, or Cd. Gordon, done more? (Hear, hear.
He (Mr. Black) hoped that the noble I,ri would eve,
now bestow upon the Crimean commite-ioners same fitting
reward for their great services. (Cheers.)
Viscount PALMERSTON—In reference to an impres-
sion which might be produced by the speech of my hon.
friend, I have to state that there is not the slightest ground
for asserting there was any intention on the part of the
Government that the investigation of these two commis-
sioners should be a sham. (Hear.) There is nothing in
the manner in which they were appointed, their investi-
gation was conducted, and their report received and acted
upon, which can afford the slightest ground for such a cm-
elusion. (Hear, hear.) The commissioners were selected
on account of their knowledge and fitness for the task ;
they performed that task with great credit to themselves
and advantage to the country ; and her Majesty's Govern-
ment have, in my opinion, fully expressed their sense of
their merit. (Hear.) With regard to the speech of the hon.
gentleman opposite, I must say it appeared to me to be a
complete anachronism. (Cheers.) It might have been a
speech very much to the point two years ago, when the suf-
ferings of the army were such as he described ; when her
Majesty's Government, stimulated by the i m ptdse given them
by this house, were anxious to give a remedy for those
sufferings; and when, in point of fact, an appropriate re
needy was applied. But really, at this time of day, when
the war has bpen brought to a close, when peace has been
restored, and when a year has since elapse], to go back to
what was the state of things in December, 1854, does seem
to me to be not the most useful application of the time of
this house. (Cheers) My first answer to the hon. gentle-
man is, that the sufferings of the army had ceased nearly
twelve months before it left the Crimea, and that whereas
during the first winter it was in is state of great misery and
destitution, it was afterwards placed in a condition which
excited the envy and admiration of our allies, and which
was infinitely better than that of the French or Russian
army. In fact, the condition of our troops in the Crimea
.could in no respect be surpassed by that of an equal num-
ber of men in any part of the world, even at home. (Loud
cheers.) The speech of the hon. gentleman was, therefore,
only a recital of calamities which are past and gone, and
which were remedied in every respect.to which the speech
related. (Hear, hear.) It is quite true that the sufferings
of our troops were great. It is true that their knapsacks
were left on board when they landed just before the battle
of the Alma ; and it is also true that for some reason or
other they did not reach them again until two or three
months afterwards. At the same time I should state that
that is by no means an unexampled state of things. Why,
i it was only the other day that I was conversing with an hon.
and gallant friend with reference to the Cape campaign, and
he assured me that throughout the whole of that campaign,
the men had no knapsacks, and that nevertheless they did
not suffer materially in consequence. It is perfectly true
that there were ample supplies sent out from this country,
sand ri that owing
troopstoowiagdid n
the wantot benefit ofepnreopterbythem. I
arrangementst:
joite
spot h
treat
that there were ten thousand greatencroetahtekseenwnth.rniiceohmmwatohigith.ceti
erwebsitodireswi
qbueietne
tsreurev etdh
sot utth, e
rbeuwt
knew anything about, and that there was forage at
hlntaovboisdy
e
were dying for
Constantinople, while the baggage animal,:
the
rice
was
aswantil oo
Constantinople.it thei u tl
Crimea,
C r i mi
nAe
sau.
ship
tltiise I true,i s
loaded with
that au officer
quiteveith rice, to bus
much it is to be deplored ; but it arose
local confusion created by the
anxious services which had to pressure
performedof
Itoa
owaaossantohtef from true, and yen
entirely from tnle:
important
en ::,
warm departmentw ant of
did arrangementnot e e an tdhome—lifeout e
n3p ss t ~r„t
had not been accustomed to its details forehairidul. (gear')
of all kinds to supply the wants of the army ; but l'f was
ITI
owing partly to the rapid movements of the army
ea,
England to Turkey, and from Turkey to the Cri(ett
alt.
partly to the necessarj separation of the dif_feri7t 1 P
meats, and partly to various eMvent for sup-
circumstances, there was at first no erring a want of
plying the army with fresh meat; h.
there
drhave supplie,l the
those baking arrangements which :° were arranged and
to thus,
army with fresh bread ; the hootephietr :uses. 'u