The Sun.
London, England, 1857-01-24 00:00:00

MR. ROEBUCK, M.P., AT LIVERPOOL.

On Thursday evening Mr. Roebuck, the member for
Shern"l,l, was present at the annual public meeting
of the Liverpool Financial Reform Association, held in
the Concert-hall, Lord Nelson-street, which was filled
with an attentive audience. Mr. L. Heyworth,
was in the chair, and on the platform were some of the -
influential membsrs of the association.
The Secretary read a letter from Mr. T. B. Horsfali, p
M.P., declining to suppoyt a resolution of which he had
received a copy, on the ground that there appeared to
him to be such a strong fee!ing in the country—a feeling
in which he doncurred—against the continuation of the
present income tax.

This announcement was received with hisses and cheers.
Letters of apology for their 'absence, but expressive
of their approval, on the whole, of the- pi4nciples and
objects of the association were read from Mrs J. C.
Swart, M.P., Mr. W. Brown, M.P., and Mr. R. Glad-
stone. Mr. Eggert expressed his opinion that he did not
think the country was yet prepared to re'petti all duties
on raw produce and substitute in their stead an equit-
able property and income tax.
The CHAIRMAN, having complimented the audience
for their attendance, declared that hitherto fiscal legis-
lation had been a mere matter of accident, left en-
tirely to chance or to the cunning of State-craft
trickery, and that they wanted to know what sort of fis
cal legislation they should have that would be the least
injurious to the trade and commerce of the country, and
offer the least hindrance to the general accumulation of
wealth. He begged their serious attention to what was
abort to be addressed to them, because he said, from a
want of Correct information, there was a large body of
our countrymen who took offence at the idea of paying
a tax immediately out of their pockets, and that tax was
the income and property tax. He wished no distinction
to be made between the rich and the poor, but every mau
to pay his equal share, and loa believed that there was
no taxation except direct taxation, such as the income
and property tax, which would immediately attain that
end. He wished to point out the benefits that had en-
sued from Sir R. Peel's adoptio❑ of the principle, and
hoped that a voice would go forth from that assembly
which should be heard in every corner of the country,
and that the wrong course men were apt to take on a
shallow and superficial view of the subject would be
directed and brought back to the only true source of fis-
cal regulation, which was direct taxation.
The Secretary having read the report of the operations

of the association, which recommended perseverance in
the effort to bring to a successful issue the combined
objects of financial reform, direct taxation, and perfect
freedom of trade,
Mr. DAWSON moved the first resolution, which was—
" That the beneficial results of the fiscal changes intro-
duced by the late Sir R. Peel—changes rendered practi-
cable by a partial adoption of the principles of free trade
and direct taxation—are evident, in the immense develop.
ment of the resources of the country thereby permitted,
and demonstrate the sound policy Of extending the opera-
tion of these principles in such a manffer as to seoure still
greater freedom to commerce, manufactures, and industry."
He pointed out that as the country had now reached the
termination of a period of unusual expenditure some
of the existing taxes might be dispetsed with, and that
they had to decide where the reduction might most fitly
be made. He found that 23,000,000/. a-year, or nearly
half the annual revenue of the Government, was already
raised by direct taxation, and he asked if that policy
should be continued ? He illustrated the beneficial re-
sults of direct taxation since its adoption in 1842, when
the trade of the country was in a very depressed and de-
clining position, and expressed his opinion that the po-
licy was a sound one, and should therefore be continued.
Mr. CROSSFIELD briefly seconded the resolution, which
was carried by acclamation.
Mr. ROEBUCK then proceeded to address the meeting,
and was received with protracted and deafening applause.
He said he had accepted the invitation so kindly sent him
by the Financial Reform Association of Liverpool, be-
cause he thought by doing so that he should torward the
great end of financial reform- -not because of any vain
notion that he himself had any power upon the matter,
but because he represented the great, and he believed
what would be the influential association—the Admini
strative Reform Association of London. He thought that
their views and principles were identical, but he did not
bind himself to all the prinCiples which might be enun -
elated by the Financial Reform Association of Liverpool.
To put their aims under one' head, it was that every one
in the community should be taxed according to his means.
To this aim he had come down from London to signify
his adhesion, and to thank them for all they had done is
the great science of financial reform. He said that they
in London did not foresee the coining danger as the
Liverpool Association did in 1848 ; and, therefore, when
the storm did burst upon them they were unprepared.
He then referred to the facts which have so often
been commented upon in reference to the condition and
efficacy of that army which left our shores for the Crimea,
which he declared was lost by the in firmity of pur-
pose of a Ministry, and not by the arm of the
enemy. The evil did not arise from transitory causes ;
they were inherent in the very administration of the
country, and it was for the purpose of putting down
that mal-administration they had banded together in
London. He related how they had, after two years'
labour, discovered that they were on the wrong road,
and expressed the honour he felt at being invited to
preside at that time over their meetings. He entered
into the details of the system they had adopted, and

stated that they had an organisation which would enable
them to communicate with eAse with every post town
in the kingdom. They had endeavoured, and would
still further endeavour, to learn all the mischief they
had endured—first, the mode of taxation itself; next, its
collection ; and, thirdly, its distribution. In reference
to the first, the Liverpool Association had pointed out

and endeavoured to teach the people the great advantages
of direct taxation ; but, although he agreed with them,
there was something to be said upon the subject of direct
taxation which he thought was not said. There had
been, and there was then, a strong feeling growing up
against the injustice of the income tax. He acknow-
ledged that i?justice, and endeavoured in his place in
Parliament to ameliorate the mischiefs of that tax. His
idea was that a man who had 1001. or 1,0001. a year
from funded or lauded property was far more able to
pay a tax of 5 or 10 per cent. than the man who made
1001. or 1,0001. a year by his brains or his labour.
There were some political economists, but all ♦ery rich
seen, who thought he was wrong. In the House of
Commons he said so ; and he recollected Mr. Gladstone,
a man well known in Liverpool, telling him that his
argument was not to be answered, but that he must
have the money. He showed that in the case of the
man with the landed or funded capital it remained, but
that in the other case nothing was left. What he pro-
posed to do was to capitalise this 1,0001. a year, and tax
it then as they would tax funded property. Then they
would act justly. Or they might take another course,
and he pointed out that course in the House of
Commons. They might say, to that man, " We will allow
you to insure your life; you shall lay by so much every
year for the purpose of insurance, and we will tax you
for the remainder." This would be something like
equality between the man of funded and landed pro-
perty and the man who earns his income by the exercise
of his brains and labour. But that was a sort of process
not agreeable to those who govern the House of Com-
mons, the powerful majority of whom were men con-
nected with landed and funded property. He said this
class were wise in their generation, for they excluded
from the operation of the tax all under 1501. a year,
thus avoiding giving offence to the working classes of
the country, but the middle classes of it they bound
nand and foot, and treated accordingly. He showed
how a working man under the present system of taxation
contributed a greater portion to the taxes than the rich
man, whose consumption of the necessaries of life, such
as tea and sugar, bore a much smaller proportion to his
expenditure than the expenditure of the other. He did
not join in the cry against the income tax as income tax,
but against the injustice of the manner in which it was
levied. With regard to the collection of the taxes, every
man must knew that the mode was one of impropriety ;
it was uncertain, and it was always found that the tax
gatherer got rich. There was something peculiar about
money—it sticks to the fingers which handle it ; and he
had found continuously, in his experience of life, that
the tax-gatherer was the most flourishing man in the
small community in which he lived. He therefore ap
proved of the two associations directing their attention
to the mode of collecting the taxes of the country. He
considered that mode of distribution involved all the
mischiefs of the country. He asked for what were the
taxes levied, and explained their object ostensibly.
They were for the purpose of protecting the people of
andtaa hnu eyd pureaoslnal
ewt
w.
this country,—their persons, their property, and repu-
tations. Re said, when that is fully accomplished all
acs
ao9wi of
l s 1
maogikudoecvdhoe
on the
of mttehhneopt
se
institutions
institutionsvl eeattained,requisite
great end to that end is so much stolen from the people. But
people were robbed. We haavde persons forwtphenaertca
proportion w
hi
tho he
heBknow how much the
have persons for service—and
spoke,
po
first.e 113 m u had a d heard in the country
oe
ttuwhr
the last
.bear a very
se
of Commons the whole afternoone occupied about giving
some hard-workingman 1001., and in the next breath, and
before you can turn your head round,
away one million of money. He appealed to
have voted
o thhe chairman
if that had not occurred in his experience
been quite so long as his own. He then said he ich had
to the point at whicla he supposed they w.
rebeyondal
y beeno ft ha t

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