The Sun.
London, England, 1859-06-11 00:00:00

things. The House of Commons responded liberally to that
appeal. The consequence is, that at the end of the present
financial year you will have 50 effective line-of-battle ships.
(Cheers.) I told you three months ago that we should
launch 15 in the course of the present financial year. We
have added two more to that number, making 17, which
will bring up the total number by the end of the financial
year to 50, or double what we found 15 months ago. Is
that a reason why we are to be condemned ? (Hear, hear.)
If we are to be so condemned by a triumphant faction here
—(oh, oh, from the Opposition, with cheers from the Mini-
sterialists)—do you think the country will respond to such
a decision? (Cries of "No, no," from the Mmisterialists,
and " yes," from the Opposition.) If ever a Government
exposed themselves to attack we have done so. We have
assumed as grave a responsibility as any Government that
ever held the reins of power. Since Parliament was dis-
solved—(ironical Opposition cheers)—aye, I know what
that cheer means. (Cheers and counter cheers.) Ido not
shrink from the issue which it raises. Since Parliament
was dissolved the war, which we had exerted every effgt
to prevent, and which up to the very last hour we were san-
mune we should prevent, unhappily broke out. The result
was that the,.Government had to consider how we could

best provide for the defence of the countri. We then took
a most unusual course. The hon. member for Binning-
ham spoke of the policy of the Whigs being a feeble
and a faltering policy. Well, the conduct of her Ma-

jesty's Goverinient on this occasion was at least far from

being a feeble and a faltering one. (Hear, hear.) On the
responsibility of the Government we took three most im-
portant measures. We advised the Crown to issue an order
in council adding 10,000 men to our naval force-8,000 sea-
men and 2,000 marines. (Hear, hear.) Another measure we
adopted was one adverted to last night by the right hon ba-
ronet the member for Carlisle—l mean that of offering a
bounty to sailors. Having decided on adding 10,000 men to our
naval force, we decided on raising those additional men by
bounty. The third step was to add no less than 1,300 ship-
wrights to our dockyards—the measure of our addition being
as many as our dockyards could accommodate for convenient,
and efficient working. (Hear, hear.) The bounty we offered
was very high for a time of peade—higher, I believe, than
had ever been offered in time of peace on any former occa-
sion. (Hear, hear.) lam prepared to vindicate every one of
these measures. But I say this is no feeble or tottering
policy. (Cheers.) It is either right or wrong. Either we did
wisely and prudently consult the best interests of the coun-
try, or on the other hand we have adopted one of the most
reckless abuses of power, or the most extravagant and un-
justifiable outlay of the public money that ever a Govern-
ment was guilty of, (Cheers.) In the one case we ought
to be censured and condemned—in the other we are entitled
to the thanks of the country. (Loud cheers.) Are we then
to be condemned or thanked? and if thanked, what do you
mean by coming down here and muttering vague suspicions
about our foreign policy ? (Prolonged cheering.) Here is a
point on which we are open to attack. We have done either
right or wrong. We challenge you upon this issue, and we
have we
ine heard these put the challenge not only here but out out of doors. (Cheers.)
policy?misera l
we pretences about sup-
posedWlgrapple
with us on that point on which we are open to attack. It is be-
cause you know that we have done right, because we hive
done our duty, and that upon this point we are not open to
attack. It is true the hon. member for Birmingham did can-
sure our policy in this respect ; but no one supported him in
it. I protest against the statement of the horn. member
that this policy was dictated by hostility towards France.
I disclaim that feeling altogether. I deny that it means er
that it is intended to mean anything like suspicion. I
agree with the hon. member that an alliance with France
is productive of advantage to the best interests pf both na-
tions and of the world. Long may that alliance be upheld.
But to uphold it intact it is necessary that England should
be prepared for events. (Cheers.) The hon. member for
Birmingham stands alone, I am sure, in his opinion on this
subject. But the right hon. gentleman the member for Car-
lisle held language upon this subject last night which
confess I did not clearly understand. The authority of the
right hon. baronet ought to be considerable on this subject,
and I should like to know, because I value his opinion, what
he meant when he alluded to our policy on this question.
With the exception of the gallant admiral the member for
Southwark and tLe hon. member for Birmingham, he is
almost the only member who has spoken in this debate that
has alluded to the unusual acts of the Government in relit.
tion to our national defences. The right hon. gentleman
said that there might be a public necessity which justified
our measures, and he was not prepared to deny that they
were necessary. But then he afterwards went on to condemn
the bounty as impolitic and imprudent. Will the right hon.
gentleman allow me to tell him that these two opinions are
irreconcilable the one with the other. If the policy was ne-
cessary, the bounty was necessary, and I tell the right hon.
gentleman that without the bounty, we should not have been
able to carry out our policy. The right hon. gentleman fell
into some decided errors on this subject in his speech of last
night, and one of those errors was his statement that the
issue of the bounty would be fatal to the continuous service
system; for how, said he, can you expect men to enter for
continuous service when they know that at any moment a
bounty may be offered to them to enter ? Now, I sin.,
happy to tell the right hon. gentleman that he never fell
into a greater mistake. The continuous service system
was first begun in 1853, when it was introduced, much,te
his honour, by the right hon. gentleman himself. In the
first year after it was adopted the average number of men►
that entered the continuous service per month was 1,150; in
1855 it fell to 800 ; in 1856 it fell further to 600 ; in 1857
to 400 ; in 1858 it had fallen as low as to an average of 300
per month. The bounty was first offered in May, and I can
tell the right hon. baronet how many men entered for con-
tinuous service during that month. Instead of the number
of 300, there were no less than 1,593 men who entered for
continuous service, and up to the present time the number
of men who have entered for continuous service in June is
477. (Loud cheers:) So that instead of proving the de-
struction, the bounty has acted as a stimulus to the con-
tinuous service system. And now let me tell the right hon.
gentleman what was the necessity for the bounty. The
house will recollect that when I moved the navy estimates
in the course of lasi session, I proposed to raise 5,000 addi-
tional seamen. During the whole of the month of April
under the old system the number of additional seaman that
entered the navy, after deducting those who from, various
causes retired, amounted only to six. (Hear, hear.) Could
we have gone on under such a system as that—(loud cheers)
—while there was a war in Europe, and with all the press-
ing necessity which in consequence arose for the increase
of our naval defences ? (Cheers.) We resorted to the
bounty, and instead of an increase of six, the increase in
the month of May was nearly 3,000, and up to this time the
increase is about 4,000. I must here answer an inquiry of
the gallant admiral. The proportion of able-bodied sea-
men who have entered is, in round numbers, about 90 per
cent. (" Hear, hear," from Sir C. Napier.) lam happy
to tell the gallant admiral something else The entries of
landsmen, as they are called, are of the very best descrip-
tion. Many of them are boatmen, men otherwise accus-
tomed to the sea ; and I have the best reports from the cap-
tains of the new ships, that though the crews are of course
undisciplined, yet they consist of the finest material and
will make the very best description of men-of-war' I men.
In answer to another question of the gallant admiral, must
tell him that we have now 24 sail of the line, and 12 frigates
of the largest class in commission. They are now divided
between the Mediterranean and the Channel. We are about
to increase the Mediterranean portion of them, but that will
not affect the general state of things. The gallant admiral
also asked if our force now in commission exceeded that of
the French. Now, Ido not like comparisons. I would look
rather to positive statements. The French are not the only
naval
power with which we may be called to contend--
r (hear' hear)—but in answer to the inquiry of the gallant ad -
miral, I may tell him that our ships of war in commission
are considerably greater than the French. (Cheers.) And
that is not the limit to which we intend to go. And now,
sir, let me ask the gallant admiral a plain question. What
course is he going to take to-night ? (Loud cheers.) Is he
going to takethe line of afrank-hearted sailor, or is nor.
to take the line of a disingenuous partisan. (Loud and ,
pro-
longed cheering.) He told us the other night with perfect
truth— I agree with him, and I am sure the public 704
agree with him—that party questions are nothing ; that all.
£8 or £6 borough franchise was nothing when compared °L,
importance with the defences of England. (Loud cheers')
He knows what those defences were when we took office ;
he knows what they are know ; and if there is any man in
this house to whom, from his language, from his known.
opinions—from everything he has said and done in this house
—if there is a man to whom I have a right to appeal, in
consistency and honour, that he will support the Govern-
o
ment on the groundof what they have done for the defences
of the country, that man is the gallant admiral. (Tremen-
dous cheering.) Sir, I thank the house for the patience
with which they have heard these observations. I hope and
trust that the spirit in which they have been spoken will
not be misrepresented or misunderstood. I have felt it due
.to my colleagues to state the efforts they have made for the
defences of England. It may suit your purpose twiner the
issue, but the common sense and the common feeling of the
country will be against you. It is absurd at a moment when
war is raging in Europe—when no man can tell how soon
spark
may reach this country—it is absurd to say that in
judging of the conduct of the Government you will ex-
elude this subject from your consideration. Hon. gentle-
men opposite may try to shun it, but the feeling of the
country will not allow them. I have done my duty
asking the House of Commons to support a government
that has made these efforts, and I am indifferent as to
the result. If a majority of this house shall vote in
favour of the amendment I shall have the satisfaction
of feeling that I shall hand over the navy of England.te
it—(tremendous cheering)—and I shall have
successor in a very different state from that which I four
the farther
satisfaction of feeling that, whatever party discipline or
this house shall support the amendment,
party efforts may accomplish in this house if a majority a
may with
con-
fidence appeal to the British public from their decinio
(Great cheering.)
of the
Lord J. RUSSELL—I ;must say that the tone
right hon. gentleman who has just sat down is, considering
the circumstances in which we stand, somewhat extra°. rre.
nary. Her Majesty's Ministers advised her Majesty to
d
solve Parliament at a critical time, and in the midst of 101
whether her
Majesty's Ministers had or had not the confidence ~,_
of rbe7er;
portant business, in order to try the question
liament and the country. The Parliament
thus dissolved, the elections took place upon
immediately
The representatives returned here proposed
put to the test the question which her Majesty's Ministers
are ready
declared was really the question at issue. They
in her Majesty's
to declare that they have not confidence
Ministers, and in taking this step the right hon. gentlemanright
Why, what did the
calls us a faction. (Cheers.) le
Did he mean the whole
country gentleman really expect ? this question.
their wisdom was so self-
to it. Did he mean to say that
against them
evident that nothing could induce opposition
in,
country should give but one answer to the question put
estimate of his and his colleagues'
to have a very high .
it be permitted to mew-
But I thinkmay
superior merits.
but the spirit of faction. The right hon. gentleman see
hers of this house, e
ven if mistaken, to take a different view
from that which the right hon. gentleman expresses with-
out being
II"'
exposed to the charge of faction. Well, the,ri,sgw°:
hon. gentleman asks us to bring forward our charges•
arae a
I don't hold that it is at all necessary to make any chergett.g.
whatever in order to establish the validity of this
of Com-
words used by Mr. Burke when he said the House
but it
ment. I thought that question was settled in a few short
:none was not only a court competent to criminate,
e_
was also a council of weight and wisdom to advise. lef!taut
the House of Commons be opinion at this nu
in the hands of the present ministers, it is surely aerty
time that the destinies of the country ought not to
tent for this house to declare that opinion. (IlesE.)
favour of a
Mr. S. Wortley in 1812 prGposed an acidness in
h administration
strong and efficient administration, the
to
produce their
against which he moved had but a weekthey recommended.
measures, and to state the policy which
h consideration that the
But that step was justified on tt.
effairs were not equal to
men who were then at the head o are
required to act. So
the emergency upon which they ebecpla.c.ed_.
motion. I confess lam a.l4tle surprised
much for the constitutional rule asw to the_ partopthrieetianoguagef this