The Sun.
London, England, 1857-03-21 00:00:00

BILL.

Earl GRANVILLE moved the third reading of this
bill.

The Earl of ELLUNBOROUGH said the motion for
the third reading of this bill announced the approaching
end of the session, and he trusted he should be allowed
to say a few words on the peculiar circumstances which
led to its premature conclusion. He believed those cir-
cumstances were these:—The governor of Hong Kong
having taken a mple reparation for an alleged offence, and
the circeinstarecea being such as would have enabled him
to come at once to a pacific settlement with the Chinese
authorities, thought fit to make what was at that time a
most unprispitious demand—a demand to which it was
impossible, under the circumstances for the Chinese autho-
rities to •accede. Hence arose a war. That war had been
approved ey her Majesty's Government, and the question
having been subrnitt,.d to the House of Commons a small
majority of that house thought fit to express an opinion
that there was not :sufficient ground for the measures
that had been adopted in China and approved by her
Majesty's Government. Upon that the course adopted
by her Majesty's Government was to advise the Queen
to dissolve Parliament, and the members of the House
of Commons were seat to their cenetituents for judgment.
At first a charge was made of c inspiracy and concert and
coalition, and all the various offence, which a dissatisfied
Government usually charged against successful opposi-
tions. However, that charge had been denied, and was
now he believed altogether withdrawn. It was from the
first utterly unfounded and unreasonable, and no one
who considered the matter for a few moments could be-
lieve it. He apprehended that two questions would
practically be put to the electers. The first was, whether
they preferred Lord Palrnerecon to any other Minister;
and the other was whether they approved of this war.
He thought it not at all improbable that the answer
given by the constituencies would be that they on the
whole preferred Lord Palmerston to any other Minister ;
but he felt the most perfect confidence that the answer to
the second question would be that they could not approve
of the circumstances under which the war was com-
menced, and that their desire was that it should, at the
earliest phseible prjriod, be discontinued. So that the
position of the Gr)vernment after the dissolution would
be practically tree same as now. But there was a very
importantequee tion involved in the commencement of
this procsediag, and that was the question to what ex-
tent it was proper to give support to a distant authority
in measures undertaken by that authority, which endan-
gered the pacific relations subsisting between this coun-
try and a foreign state. If Sir J. Bowring was to be
supported because he was governor of Hong Kong, he
knew not why, on the same principle, the Governor
of Gibraltar might not adopt measures which might in-
volve uti in a war with Spain, or why a governor of one
of the United States should not be supported in adopt-
ine measures which wou'd involve us in war with
tie United States. To give to governors of colonies
or dependencies the power to involve this country in
war appeared to him the most dangerous doctrine
that could be conceived. New, when the representa-
tives of the people were sent to their constituents,
who were the persons to suffer, were the 48 Whigs who
voted against the Government to suffer on this occasion!
It appeared that that was contrary to the usual feeling
in this neetter. Those gentlemen gave their confidence to
the Government, and in a moment of peril withdrew
that confidence. He remembered when in distant times
he was a member of the House of Commons, if any gen-
tleenaa on the Ministerial side thought proper to give a
contrary opinion to that of the Government he was fired
at on allsides. What he suffered in the house they could
see, but what he suffered out they could not tell. The re-
eult, however, was that the offence was never repeated.
But here where the offence was general, they were not
only not to be punished, but to be rewarded. It was said
f a great personage that he loved the treason but he hated
the traitor, but the noble earl opposite was different, he
hated the treason but he lived the traitor. He jeined with
the noble earl in hoping that no mischief would happen
to these 48 gentlemen. They had given one honest vote,
he hoped they would live to give many more. Besides,
he confessed he had a feeling in favour of an 011 Whig.
He could net say he bad the same feeling in favour of
that party who were Whigs and something more. With
regard to the gentlemen who formed the Radical party,
he entertained very much the opinion which he recoi-
-1 e.e,l having heard exeressed in the; house by the late
Lord Welteeley, who, with his usual classical felicity,
said, " Radice in Tartaro tendit." Whether, in fact,
they would arrive at that distinction he would not say,
but undoubtedly of late years, and even very recently,
there. had been certain circumstances which lea him to
the eoncluaion that that expression might be, if not
general:3r incorrect, certainly not altogether inaccurate.
It these gentlemen friends of the Government, who
voted againstthe Ministers on that occasion, were not to
suffer, let him ask why the Conservatives were to suffer.
Tney neve r gave their support to the Government. Were
they on that occasion, when 48 old Whigs voted against
the Governinent, to be punished for not giving that con•
fidence which taey had always withheld I Then there
was another party, very small in numbers, but
powerful in intellect and in ability in the men :gement
of public affairs --- the party who were ca led Peel-
ites. Re had never been a member of that party, and
had in fact: never bean a member of any patty since the
Duke of Wellington retired from public life, but he had
a respect for them. They had never given their confi-
dence of late, at hetet, to the government. They acted
on their own independent judgment. Their, fore
he did not see how these three different parties, against
whom this charge of coalition had been most untruly
made, would justly suffer in consequence of this dissolu-
tion. And now he would state very shortly certain cir-
cuoastaeces with which some of t .ern at least might not
he acquainted, in order to show wrist were practically
alreituy the effects of tide war which had been so reek-
leseiy undertaken by Sir John Bowring. The other day
he
uatated what he judged would pr, b:hly take place. He
did otkeow what +lad taken place, but he s Aid he thought
the inteiruption ef our trade with China would produce
the greatest possible ?distress. He had since learned
something which went beyond all it he had antici-
pated. He found that between the 7+h Jan. and sth Feb.
the rate of discount at the Bank of Ben, was raised
fro ver 6 cent. to 14. Now he unfortunately was ac-
quainted with the difficulties of carrying on commerce
in that city. If a gentleman there go; 80,0001. or
100,0001., he cent it to this country or he put it out in
India on la 4, and a great portion of the t-ado in that
country was carried on with borrowed money. Now if
in this country, where commerce was sound, the rate of
discount were raised front 6 to 14 per cent. they knew
the wide-spread ruin that would ensue, but in a country
where trade was carried on with borrowed money, such
a rise in the rate of discount necessarily involved general
tailors
.
and utter I time. The consequence would be the
of many houses, and the embarrassment of g:vnet ofrnin In.
ent.
What was the position in which the government
dia was now placed I The government had alvei-
teed, since the commencement of this unfortunate
war with China, for a loan of three millions at 5 per
c ent. It had previously vainly endeavoured to raise
the money at 41 per cent. It was able to raise very
little at 5 per cent. ; and the general opinion was now,
that it can only raise it at 7 per cent., unless they game
some indulgence to persons having Four per Cent. stock.
See what an unfortunate position the holders of g,averc-
ment Four per Cent, stock were in. They had 5 per
cent., and two or three years ago were induced to take
four having no idea at that time that Government would
raise a fresh loan at five. Their stock was now at 19
per cent discount, and they could not borrow on it tat
less than 1 per cent, discount. Then the price of opium
had fallen greatly, so much as to make it perfectly cer-
tain that when the next Government sales took place
there would be a toes of 25 per cent., which would entail
loss t,) the revenue from that source of 750,0001. a
year, if it did not go beyond that. He was sure the diffi-
cul-des of that country would become so great, that it
would be, in his opinion, a matter for the immediate con-

sideration of Government, whether they should not inter-
fere with some pecuniary assistance. His opinion was, it
would be advisable at once to obtain the authority of Par-
liament to advance from two to three millions in Exche-
quer bills by the home Government to that country. Why
the Government of India should not obtain an indulgence
which was granted to Sardinia, and had been granted to
half the States of Europe, ho knew not. They must
consider also the effect which the war would have in
this country. As he understood two or three weeks
ago there had been a diminution of ten millions of pounds
in the importation of tea, but now it was expected that
the diminution would extend from thirty-five to forty
millions of pounds, and the result was that this country
would lose one third of the revenue from tea. He could
not calculate the extent of the injury which would be
done in a 1 parts of the world by the interruption of the
trade with China ; but the direct I)ss to this country
woul 1 be one-third of the revenue from tea, and consider-
ing the expense of the forces sent out, the loss this year
would not be less than four millions. Somewhere else
some one had expressed an opinion that it would be ad-
visable to part with Lord Palmerston for two trillions,
but they were now asked to pay four millions for Sir
John B iwring ; and he did think there never was a pub-
lic character bought at so dear a rate. The reason why
Lord Palmerston was to be supported was, it was stated,
because he conducted a glorious war, and brought it
to a satisfactory peace. He could not conceive any
war te be glorious in which Kars was abandoned.
In that war there was much which we might be proud
to remember, but there was also much which we should
be desirous to forget. They could not consider that a
glorious war which,had not advanced the character of
the British army, though it had advanced the character
of the British soldier. He could not consider that peace
as satisfactory in which, in consequence of the abandon-
ment of Kars, all the cession of territory in Bessarabia
for the purpose of improving the frontier of Turkey was
abandoned. Having originally obtained the promise of
the left bank of the Danube and the left bank of the
Pruth, the occupation of which, according to the line
agreed upon, would practically have thrown back the
Russians to the Dniester, he could not consider that
peace satisfactory by which that line on the Upper Pruth
was now gone into the hands of Russia. We had lost
the Upper Pruth, which, in a military point of view, was
alone valuable. Moreorer, the object of that war was the
independence of Turkey. Turkey had an empire in Asia
quite as important as in Europe. In Asia nothing was
;lone to protect Turkey. She lost Kars, and that mate-
rially affected her character in that country. It was his
firm belief that the abandonment of Kars, the conse-
quent discouragement of the population in that country,
and the non-insertion in the treaty of any stipulation
which would improve tne condition of Turkey in Asia
had most materially contributed to the war with Persia;
and he felt satisfied that if we had maintained Kars, and
given Turkey an advantage on the side of Asia, we
should not only have been supporting Turkey, but pro-
tecting our own possessions in India. Among the various
qualities which were required in a Minister there was
none perhaps which was more valuable than the quality
of economy. Notwithstanding that that quality had
ceased to hold so high a position as it formerly did
in the opinion of the public, he still thought that in
some places at the ensuing election there would be in-
quiries with regard to the conduct of Lord Palmerston's
Government on the subject of economy. He was not
going to trouble their lordships with any long details
on that subject ; but before he said anything on it
allow him to observe that it had always appeared
to him tnat the first duty of the Government
of this country was to place it in a state of security
against an invasion from a foreign nation. He wished
to see our naval and military establishments kept up in
full perfection, and never would become the friend of
any government which neglected the performance of that
duty. But consistently with that duty they ought to
carry out the most searching economy in every depart-
ment, to give the greatest possible efficiency at the
smallest charge, and they ought more espeeiall to be
economical in those parts of the expenditure which had
no connection with naval and military affairs. He had
examined the public accounts from the year 1838 to
1856, and wool f give a comparative statement of cer
tain items in the three years ending 1853 and the three
years ending 1856. The average charge for public build-
ines and palaces for the three years ending 1856 was
161,000 f. ; the charge for the three years ending 1853
was 115:0001. The estimated charge for 1857 was
196,0001. The increase in the three years ending
1856 over the three years ending 1853 was 46,0001.,
and the increase in 1857 was 34;0001, making
a total increase since 1853 of 81,0001. The charge
for the royal parks and pleasure parks in 1851 was
41,000/, The vote proposed for 1857 was 114,0091,
being an increase of 72,0001. In these two items alone
the increase since 1853 in the one case, and 1857 in the
other, was 141,0001. The next charge to which he
wished to call their lordships' attention was a most mon-
strous charge. The expense of printing and stationery
in the three years ending 1853 was 216,0001., whilst
that for the three years ending 1856 was 416,0001., and
the estimate for 1857 was 450,0001., showing an increase
over 1853 of 234,0001. Then there was a charge which
many of their lordships, and especially the noble earl the
President of the Council, could not consider too great—
the charge for education. In 1851 the charge was
284,0001. ; in 1852, 324,000/. •, in 1853, 442,0001 ; in
1854, 456,0001. ; in 1855, 612,0001. ; in 1856, 879,000%;
and in 1857, 754.0001. ; showing an increase over the
year 1851 of 474,080/. Whilst an increasing 'cote
was yearly granted to make people good, let
their lordships; examine the charge fur looking
after the bad. In 1848 the charge for convicts
was 477,0001., whilst in 1856 it was 906,0001., being
an increase of 428,0001. Comparing the tbree years end-
ing 1856 with the three years ending 1853, the increase
upon that head alone was 152,0001. In 1833 the charge
for education was 80,0001., and for convicts 313,000/.,
making together 393,0001. In 1857 the charge for edu-
catii n was 754,0001., and for convicts 906,0001, making
together 1,660,0001., being an increase over the first
year of 1,267,0001. The charge for special and temporary
obects was more remarkable than any other. Of 126 dif-
ferent heads of charge, not less than 60 had arisen within
the last three years, the increase in the last three years
being 404,0001., and as compared with the three years
ending 1840, 468,0001. Putting all these items together,
and comparing the votes of 1857, as fir as they could be
ascertained, with the average of the three years ending
1853, the following would be found the amounts of in-
crease—public building a and palaces, 81,0001.; royal parks
and gardens, 59,0001.; printing and stationery, 234,0001.;
education, 404,0001.; science and art, 55,0001 ; convicts,
152,0001 ;special and temp ;rary objects, 404,0004 making
altogether 1,392,000/. (Hear) No state could go on
with such a system of extravagance. He recollected
having complained during the late war of the extrava-
gance with which it was carried on ; and although
an inquiry had been promised, not one iota of informa-
tion had been given on the subject. Having gone
through these points, he would now ask their lordships
and gentlemen on the hustings, " What are Lord Pal-
mereton's principles 1" Previous to Lord Palmerston
becoming First Minister, there had been during the
time his lordship had occupied a seat in the House of
Commons thirteen governments, of not less than ten of
which his lordship bad been a member. (Laughter.)
Two of these governments entertained most opposite
views. The noble lord was a member of the govern-
ment of Earl Grey, and a member of the Government of
Mr. Perceval ; and no person ever knew that he made
a difference between his two chiefs. He therefore did
not know what his lordship's principles really were.
Most probably the noble lord was a remarkably agree-
able and fascinating colleague. That he was an excel-
lent man 'of business no one could doubt. His extreme
dinary experience in various public offices made his
services of the greatest possible value. It was obvious,
when h s lordship had hell office under so many Go-
vernments, that he entertained no ferocious rigidity of
opinion upon any point. Having had the honour of
sitting with his for iship in the Cabinet for a short time
he had never encountered any difficulty ; awl when his
lordsh,p quitted the Duke of Wainaton's Government
he did so because others had left it. No other reason was
assigned at the time, whatever might have taken place
afterwards. mere could hardly be any better recommenda-
tion than this accommodating facility with respect to the
various measures coining before the Cabinet and before
Parliament. But it, seemed to him that the public required
to know something else. What they had to look to was
fixedness of opinions upon public subjects, and, above all,
a determination to stand by them. He knew not the op'.
nion of the noble lord on the subject of reform, although
he knew what his opinions were on a particular point,
which was rather a damaging one for the Government.
I He himself was indisposed to grant any further reform,
because he felt satisfied that the more extended the con-
stituencies became the more inferior were their represen-
tatives, and in his opinion it was most important to
have goof representativee, and make the people look up
to the House of C immons for the direction of their opi-
nions. ft was supposed that the noble lord was not
favocraqs to any further reform ; but what secuity was
there that lie w adfsere to his opinions ? None at all.
It would be iofibitely better to have the Government
placed in the hands of an uncompromising old Whie like
the 1 to Earl Grey, who declared he weuld net be the
shadow of a mini to", thee a man who was one thing one
day and another the next. He would not detain their
lordships further than to say, that he viewed the present
war with the greatest apprehension. There seemed ti him
to be an injustice about it. When we were engaged in the
late war we were more than once desired to acknowledge
our sins, to beg pardon for our offences+, to ask the bless-
ing of heaven on our endeavours to maintain the inte-
rests of our country in a great and necessary war. It was
a necessary war. There was no help for it, and we were
justified iu hoping to obtain the blessing of Heaven upon
our eff ,rts. But tow could we ask the blessings of Pro-
vid,i.ce on our (lc rtions in the present war, or expect
success in our endeavour, from a conviction that our
cause is a just and a halo' ed one? It seemed to him
that the object of many parties in pressing on the war
was money. What was the object of the Government no
?lie knew. Wan it their object to force Sr J. Be wring
into Ceeten ? rhat was not practicable, and any et empt
to force Sir J. B .wring into that city would be to force
tea out of every cottage in England • for if only two-
thirds of the :notwityifotfhtehat article
40'1R:a d would be
tHhee
,xpoaoe:,eerdc't • shouid be imported,
Government Government
tow ee
were
withouteetfg,, g
t.
to take advantage of hostilities fur
jog. the treaty, furciog furth,r conlitieonpsurpoisne toherEevin'-
peror of China in ereer to obtain more inouil:ey tor that
was the meaning of the whole theory. He apprehended
not only that we were goirg to ask for that which we
had no right to dsmand, but to associate with us a friend ,
that we were going to obtain the co-operation of a party.
who had no interest in the matter ; that two great
powers, without any reasonable ground of quarrel with
the Emperor of China, were about to direct their united
forces against his empire, in order to extort from him
under difficulties some advantage in trade which would
put more money into the pockets of our merchants.
These matters caused in his mind considerable alarm'
and Parliament ought not to have separated without oh.