The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-12 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

WAR-OFFICE, PALL-MALL, MAT 12.
4th Regiment of Light Dragoons—Major G. J. Brown,
from half-pay unattached, to be Major, paying the dif-
ference between full-pay of Cavalry and full-pay of Infan-
try. vice Low, whose Brevet Rank has been converted into
Substantive Rank under the Royal Warrant of 6th Oct.,
1854 ; Capt. W. A. King, from half-pay of the 4th Light
Dragoons to be Captain, vice Brevet-Major G. J. Brown,
whose Brevet Rank has been converted into Substantive
Rank under the Royal Warrant of 6th Oct., 1851.
Bth Light Dragoons—Capt. Jas. S. Naylor to be Major,
by purchase, vice Arthur Jas. Lord Killeen, who retires ;
Lieutenant C. W. Heneage to be Captain, by purchase,
vice Naylor ; Cornet Peter Charles G. Webster to be Lieu-
tenant, by purchase, vice Heneage; Ernest Helmo, Gent.,
to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Webster.
10th Light Dragoons— Lieutenant Thomas Manners
Townley to be Captain, by purchase, vice Holmes, who
retires; Cornet Wm. Mayne to be Lieutenant, by pur-
chase, vice Benson, who retires ; Edward John Howley,
Gent., to be Cornet, by purchase, view Mayne.
14th Light Dragoons—Assistant-Surgeon Richard Chap-
man Lofthouse, M.D., from the 86th Foot, to be Assistant-
Suree6n, vice Fasson, promoted in the 53d Foot.
Royal Artillery—Lieutenant Augustus Henry Zing to
be Second Captain, vice Hagan, deceased Gentleman
Cadet Hugh Latimer Ellaby t 3 be Lieutenant; Staff-Ser-
geant John Cochran to be Quartermaster and Commissary
of Stores, by augmentation.
The date of the permanent rank of Lieutenants Francis
S. Stoney and George O'Connor to be 6th March, 1856,
and not 7th March, as stated in the Gazette of 10th ult.
Ist Regiment of Foot—Ensign Anthony Gardner to be
Lieutenant, by purchase, vice A. E. C. Forster, who ra-
tites.
4th Foot—Captain Thomas Martin to be Major, by pur-
chase, vice Rutherfoord, who retires ; Cant. Francis Clark,
from the 24th Foot, to be Captain, vice Winniett, who ex-
changes ; Lieutenant John Wimburn Laurie to be Cap-
tain, by purchase, vice Mat Lin.
6th Foot—Ensign James Thomas Nugent, from the 89th
Foot, to be Ensign, vice Hardinge, who exchanges.
7th Foot—Lieutenant Llewellyn Price Traherne has
been superseded, being absent without leave.
24th Foot—Captain William Winniett, from the 4th
Foot, to b; Captain, vice Clark, who exchanges.
27th Foot--Lieutenant William James Surman, from
the 48th Foot, to be Lieutenant, vice Cairncross, who ex-
changes ; Staff-Surgeon of the Second Class Mark Stanley
Todd to be Surgeon, vice Mostyn, who exchanges.
29th Foot—Lancelot Amelius Shadwell, Gent., to be
Ensign, by purchase.
33d Foot—Captain Edward Barker Prescott, from half-
pay 33d Foot, to be Captain, vice Nugent, who exchanges.
40th Foot--Oliver George Wynyard D'Arcey, Gent., to
be Ensign, without purchase, rice Pennefather, deceased.
44th Foot—Lieutenant Francis Dalrymple Walters to be
Captain, by purchase, vice Thoroton, who retires.
48th Foot—Lieutenant William Cairncross, from the
27th Foot, to be Lieutenant, a:eta Surman, who exchanges.
53d Foot—Assistant-Surgeon Charles Hamilton Fasson,
from the 14th Light Dragoons, to be Surgeon, vice Dart-
nell, deceased.

•
60th Foot—George Hewitt Trotman, Gant., to be En-
sign, by purchase, vice Watson, promoted.
71st Foot—John Law, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase,
vice Roberts, promoted.
85th Foot—Major John William Grey to be Lieutenant
Colonel, without purchase, vice Brevet-Colonel Manley
Power, deceased ; Captain Robert Maunsell to be Major,
without purchase, vice Grey ; Lieutenant John Bayley to
be Captain, without purchase, vice Maunsell ; Ensign
Stephen Henry K. Wilson to be Lieutenant, without pur-
chase, vice Bayley.
86th Foot—Assistant-Surgeon William Alexander Mac-
kinnon, from the 42d Foot, to be Assistant-Surgeon, viec
Lofthouse, appointed to the 14th Light Dragoons.
89th Foot—Ensign William Sheffield klardingo, from
the 6th Foot, to be Ensign, vice Nugent, who exchanges.
93d Foot—Ensign James Savage has been superseded,
being absent without leave.
Ist West India Regiment—Lieutenant James Dickson
Mackenzie, to be Instructor of Musketry.
DEPOT BATTALION.
Lieutenant-Colonel Charles Edward Fairtlough, from
half-pay, 63d Foot, to be Lieutenant-Colonel, vice Geo.
Macbeath, who retires.

UNATTACHED.
Major Robert Bruce, from a depot battalion, to be
Lieutenant-Colonel, by purchase.
Brevet-Major George John Brown, of the 4th Light
Dragoons, to have his brevet rank converted into sub-
stantive rank, under the Royal Warrant of 6th Oct., 1851.

HOSPITAL STAFF.
Deputy Inspector-General of Hospitals William Austin,
M.D., half-pay, to have the honorary rank of Inspector
General of Hospitals.
To bo Staff-Surgeons of the Second Class—Surgeon
Thomas Mostyn, M.D., from the 27th Foot, vice Todd,
who exchanges.
Staff-Surgeon of the Second Class William Watson
Somerville, M.D., from half-pay.
MEMORANDA.—The commission of Lieutenant-Colonel
Hall, of the 49th Madras Native Infantry, as Brevet-
Lieutenant-Colonel, to bear date the 9th December, 1853.
The surname of Cornet James Falkner, on half-pay, Laad
Transport Corps, is spelt Falkner, and not Faulkner, as
stated in the Gazette of Ist December, 1155.

BANRUPTCNU.
Alexander Dalrymple, me Y rcha Ant, NLime-LLEDstreet, City,
BANKRUPTS.
Spegel Morice, importer of foreign and fancy goods,
Coleman-street, City, to surrender, May 26, and .Trine 23
at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Stansfeld, offici
assignee ; Bailey, Tokenhouse-yard, City.
Anthony Crowther and Wm. Crowther, curriers, Hud-
dersfield, May 29, and June 26, at eleven, at the Leeds
District Court. Young, official assignee, Leeds ; Floyd
and Learoyd, Huddersfield ; Bond and Barwick, Leeds.
Henry Harrison, draper, Sheffield, May 23, and June
27, at ten, at the Leeds District Court. Brewin, official
assignee, Sheffield ; Hoole and Yeomans Sheffield.
Jonathan Cruse, builder, Kintbury, Berkshire, May 25,
at half-past one, and June 29, at two, at the Court of
Bankruptcy.' Pennell, official assignee, Guildhall-cham-
bers ; Gregory and Co., Bedford-row ; Pinniger and Sons,
Newbury, Berks.
Richard Gale, grocer, Skirrnett, Buckinghamshire, May
21, and June 18, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy.
Johnson, official assignee, Basinghall-street; Rhodos, Sons
and Dnffett, Chancery-lane.
James May, linen draper, Goswell-street, Clerkenwell,
May 29 and June 26, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy.
Whitmore, official assignee, Basinghall-street ; Giles, Lon-
don-wall.
William Organ, saddler, Walsall, Staffordshire, May 27
and Juno 15, at half-past ten, at the Birmingham District
Court. F. Whitmore, official assignee, Birmingham ;
Thomas, Walsall; Hodgson and Allen, Birmingham,
Castle Brangwin the younger, grocer, Greenwich. May
21, at half-past twelve, and June 18, at one, at the Court
of Bankruptcy. Bell, official assignee, Coleman-street-
buildings ; Atkins, Andrews; and Co., Lombard-street.
Mary Huddleston and Thomas Huddleston, cabinet
makers, Berners-street, Oxford-street, May 25, at eleven,
and June 29, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Pennell,
official assignee, Guildhall-chambers ; Tate, Bucklersbury.
Neptune Seal and John Seal, hat manufacturers, Bir-
mingham, May 22 and June 12, at one, at the Manchester
District Court. Hernaman, official assignee, Manchester ;
Darnton, Ashton-under-Lyne; Sale, Worthington and
Shipman, Manchester.

William Jones, slate merchant, Carnarvon, May 25 and
June 16, at eleven, at the Liverpool District Court. Cazo-
nove, official assignee, Liverpool; Woodburn, Liverpool.
John Barnes, chapman, Dorchester, May 20 and June
18, at one, at the Exeter District Court. Flirtzel, official
assignee, .Exeter ; Templer and Son, Bridport; Terrell,
Exeter.
William Leake, cattle dealer, Lane, Yorkshire, May 25,
at half-past eleven, and Juno 22, at eleven, at the Leeds
District Court. Hope, official assignee, Leeds ; Floyd and
Learoyd, Huddersfield; Bond and Barwick, Leeds.
Samuel Armson, builder, Walbrook Cosoley, Stafford-
shire, May 22 and Juno 12, at half-past eleven, at the Bir-
mingham District Court. Whitmore, official assignee
Pinchard and Shelton, Wolverhampton ; Hodgson and
Allan, Birmingham.
Samuel Starmer, shoe manufacturer, Wolverhampton,
May 27 and June 15, at half-past ton, at the Birmingham
District Court. Whitmore, otilcial assignee, Birmingham ;
Kitson, Wolverht:mpton; Knight, Birmingham.

COURSE OF EXCRANGIL--THIS DAY.
..s.msterd,,,,, ...... •... 11 IN Gibraltar .........“.
Ditto, three months .. 12 % . Leghorn .
Rotterdam .• •••••• •• •• 12 . ........ .. • • 29 GO
Genoa
Antwerp .............. 25 62% 1uau........ •••a •• • • 25 80
Bru,s.
, ....
.....,
.• ,• •• 25 623,: Venice...... • • ......
•• ••
M
ilamburgh •• .• •• •• •• •• 13 9 Nam"
•••,....
...... 423,i,
Alton ..•••........... ••••••..•• •• •• ' Palermo .• .... 13014
Ditto, three months .. 25 75 Lisbon ..
5214 Marseilles .... ...... ... 25 75 Oporto •• •• 52%
Bourdeaux .. • • ........ Rio Janeiro ... • ...
Fiankfort-cn-Ntaine •• .. 120 Buenos Ayre5.......
..„ Berlin .• •• ,• •• .• •••• •• New York, GO days' sight _
Vienna.......... •• .... 10 33 Philadelphia .... .....
__,
rrieste „„ •• •• "••••••.. 10 36 PRICEj OF BULLION, P 1 oz.
Petersburg ............ 37% Foreign Gold In Bata #3 17 9
Madrid
...
••
••
•• „•• „ 49 Portugal Guld COW • • 0 0 0
cadiz •••••„, •• ..„ „ „ 49% Ifcmican Dollars 0 0 53,
New Dollars ....• 0 0 o
Bareaiona ~• •• •• .• •• .. --
5.3,ee.,.....,..,„,..„ —. . 611yer In bars 0 0 0
_ __.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
SAVINGS BANKS.
The house went into committee on savings banks,
when

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the following resolution :—That it is expedient to amend
the laws relating to savings banks, and to provide for
the establishment of savings banks with the security of
the Government. He said that this resolution was ne-
cessary for the introduction of a bill similar to that of last
session. During the recess the bill bad been sent to all the
savings banks, and the great majority of them were of
opinion that the principle of the bill should be adopted
by the house. They objected to the limitation of the
amount of deposit from 2001. to 1001., and he intended
to omit that clause from the bill. After stating some
minor details in connection with the bill, the right hon.
gentleman said that he intended to alter the present
mode of investment in Exchequer Bills. By the old bill
the commissioners invested their money on an average of
prices during the quarter, but by this bill it would be
made on the price of the clay of the investment. He
proposed to introduce a bill prohibiting private persons
and companies from establishing banks under the title of
savings barks, to prevent the public from being imposed
on.

•
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, in the course of hie remark.;
on the question, said there was now a deficiency of the
savings banks funds amounting to 5,280,0001., which he
said arose from the inconvenient, he would say the mis-
chievous, system of allowing the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer to use the stocks of savings banks for the purposes
of the State in carrying on his operations of finance
and thereby working out his own projects and not those
that would be for the advantage of the savings bank
funds. He contended that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had no right to deal with one farthing of this
fund as they had done, and he objected to their placing
the money of the savings banks under the control
of individual officers of the National Debt Office. He
asked the Government to have the whole matter re-
ferred to a select committee. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. H. HERBERT expressed a hope that the right
hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer would
press the clause relative to Government taking the re-
sponsibility, instead of the present law, which absolved
the trustees and manager from all responsibility, and
held out a false inducement to the people to part with
their money.
Mr. SOTHERAN ESCOTT said this bill proposed
to introduce a new system of savings banks, and he was
of opinion the subject should be referred to a select com-
mittee. He, however, expressed his approval of the
principles of ti'e bill.
Lord GODERICET urged the appointment of a select
committee on the subject.
Mr. T. BARING was also in favour of a select com-
mittee. He did not believe that the managers of the
savings banks objected to any checks being imposed upon
their action, but they wished those cheeks to be well
defined and inserted in the bill. They objected to the
power of imposing checks being lodged in any one indi-
vidual, however respectable. He also thought that the
power which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had of
dealing with the savings bank funds in such a way as to
increase the National Debt, was a very objectionable
one, and deserved the serious attention of the house.
Mr. SLANEY strongly supported the bill, and was
unwilling to send the measure to a select committee, as
that might endanger the passing 9f the bill during the
present session.
Mr. HENLEY supported the select committee. He
also thought the checks to be placed upon the local
managers of the banks should be defined and inserted in
the bill. He had no confidence in Government inspec-
tion, end reminded the house that a Government inspec-
tor sent over to examine a suspicious bank in Ireland
proved it to be in an insolvent condition, but recom-
mended it to go on, in the hope that times would mend.
The bank went on, but times did not mend; a failure
took pleat', and the Government was obliged, on account
of its inspector's advice, to refund to the depositors 15s.
in the pound.
Mr. CROSSLEY was also in favour of a select com
mittee, and complained that Government did not make
enough of the money deposited in savings banks.
Mr. FAGAN supported the bill, and urged its imme-
diate adoption.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had heard with much satisfaction that the bill be sought
to introduce bad met with the approbation of the various
members on both sides of the house, who were well ac-
quaicted with the subject. The objections that had been
made to the measure were of a two-fold character—one
of a practical nature, and the other, though bearing on
savings banks, having little reference to the bill. The
practical part of the question was that stated by the
right hon, gentleman the member for Oxfordebire (Mr.
Henley), and on that the fate of the bill mainly turned.
Tne object of the bill was not so much to introduce a
new class of savings banks as to suggest means by which
the present savings banks might be brought within the
benefit of the Government security. He concurred with
the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Henley) that their
admission must turn on the conditions prescribed for
their union, and that the house was entitled to ask what
those conditions were to be. From the difficulties there
appeared to be in the way of laying down any impera-
tive rules in a bill for the regulations of these banks—
from the great variety of circumstances connected with
them, he had omitted them from the bill from a desire to
avoid any unnecessary restrictions which the inflexible
words of an act of Parliament enforced, and leaving it to
a discretionary proceeding on the part of Government.
The only condition Government sought to enforce was
their satisfaction of the bank's solvency, and then the
question hos:, was that solvency to be ascertained. The
most conclusive and complete means of ascertaining that
was by obtaining a sight of the deposit books, but then
the right hon. gentleman opposite said that was impossi-
ble. It might not be right to enforce such a condition,but
then were they justified by experience in laying down
that it was impossible to get a large proportion sufficient
to guide them as to the bank's solvency In Ireland, a
few years since, the law required the production of the
depositors' booke • and in the first year out of 21,000 to
be brought in to be examined but 45 per cent—not one-
ha'f—were brought in. In the last year, out of 39,000
books, 72 per cent. were brought in, being equal to three
fourths. One bank, in 1855, gave in 94 per cent. ; ano-
ther 83; one 78, and another 99 per cent, of the whole.
That was the result of actual experience in Ireland, and
he saw no reason to think be was asking an unreason-
able thing for the English depositors to produce their
books. Before the second reading of the bill be would'
endeavour to put it into as distinct terms as possible, the
conditions which he deemed it necessary should be com-
plied with fora bank's admission within the provisions
of this act. One other practical objection to the bill was
the proposal for sending it to a select committee, which
he thought would have the effect of shelving it for the
session, and therefore he could not accede to that request.
If hon. gentlemen wished to throw out the bill, let them
resort to the fair and direct course of doing it on the se-
cond reading, and not by indirect means, by referring it to
a select committee. With regard tea consolidation of the
laws, he begged to remind the house that it was not his
proposition, and he thought, if it were desirable, that it
could be better done after the passing of the bill. In reply
to observations that had been made relative to the ma-
nagement of the fund by the Commissioners of the Na-
tional Debt, he begged to remind the house that the re-
sponsible official was the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
the same as the Vioe-President of the Board of Control
and the Vice-President of the Board of Trade in their re-
spective departments, and therefore he had not thought
it necessary to propose any alteration in the existing law
with reference to that. With regard to what had been
`said with reference to the large sum the Government was
indebted to these banks, no loss could accrue to either
party unless a demand wee to be made on all these banks
in one day for the amounts therein deposited. That was
an improbable event, and as long as they went on in their
present state the Government deficiency was a mere
matter of acconnt, and had no practical bearing on sav-
ings banks. No loss had as yet accrued to any deposi-
tor. No depositor had failed to obtain the full amount
of his deposits with interest, and any loss that by possi-
bility could accrue could only be to Government, sup-
posing the whole amount of deposits to be required by a
given day. It bad been said that there was an improper
power vested in the Chancellor of the Exchequer of vary-
ing the securities, and that a Chancellor of the Exche-
quer had the power of playing with the funds which
ought to be restricted. He could only say that so far as
he was concerned, he had not on any occasion exercised
the power of funding Exchequer bills. (Hear.) Exche-
quer-bills were as much a Government debt as Three per
Cent. Consols. The annual fiction of paying off Exche-
quer-bills was now neither more nor less than a fiction.
They had become part of the permanent debt of the
country. If the house thought any further restrictions
necessary they would deprive the Goverament of the
power, under emergencies, of sustaining the public funds.
He did not believe that any Chancellor of the Exchequer
would use his power for any private or personal object.
Still if Parliament thought right to impose more strin-
gent regulations the Government would not be to blame
if it did not make the best possible bargain for the advan-
tage of the public. He would before he sat down advert
to the observations made on the conduct of Mr. Tidd
Pratt when he was sent over to investigate the affairs of
the Cuffe-street Bank ; he bad been blamed because
when he discovered the bank to be in an insolvent state,
he advised it to go on. Now this was correct, with one
important exception. Mr. Pratt advised it to go on, only
if it complied with a certain mode of procedure. The
bank took one part of the advice, but disregarded the
other. (Laughter.) He trusted the house would allow
the resolution to be read.
Mr. HENLEY said that the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, when he had admitted that a large sum of money
had been lost on the savings bank account, yet said it
was no less if the savings bank had not asked for their
money, had enunciated a most extraerlinary doctrine.
- Sir H. WILLOUGHDY said that the proposal of the
right hon. gentleman with regard to the management of
the savings banks was that three should form a quorum,
but the Chancellor of the Exchequer was to have the-
control of the funds. How could the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer be three persons at once. (A laugh.) The result
was to make the Chancellor of the Exchequer the sole
controller of the bank. Now the sums invested in the
savings banks amounted to no less than 34,000,0001.
He (Sir H. Willoughby) would trust no man living with
34 reillicns of money, least of all a Chancellor of the
Exchequer, who has so many temptations to play with
it. He must observe as to the affair of the Cuffs-street
bank. That bank bad gone on in a state of insolvency
for 10 years—from 1833 to 1849—it had declared at last
a deficiency of 60,0001., and yet the Government official
bad advised its going on, in epite of the law, which
ordered that when a savings bank was insciveot the

books should be closed. Yet it was to these officials
that they were to entrust the management of the banks
under the proposed system.
SECONDARY PUNISHMENTS.
Sir G. GREY rose to move the second reading of the.
Transportation and Penal Servitude Bill. He hoped
that it would not be necessary now to repeat the argu-
ments which he had used last session. He bad then
stated that the first object of the bill was to amend the
act passed in 1833, which act had been passed in conse-
quence of the difficulty which arose in carrying out sen-
tences of transportation. By that act all sentences of
transportation under 14 years were abolished, and an
option was left to the judges of passing sentence either
of transportation or penal servitude. By the present
law he proposed to abolish sentence of transportation
altogether. But it was not intended to forego the ad-
vantagessf the system as to the convicti las lately adopted
by the country. The bill would give facilities for send-
ing them out of the country which did not now exist.
The next provision of the bill had been introduced in
consequence of the recommendation of the committee of
the House of Commons, according to which recom-
mendation sentences of penal servitude, instead of
being shorter than those of transportation, were to
be co-extensive. One difficulty that had arisen
arose from this, that there was no medium
between the old term of imprisonment for two
years and the term of transportation for seven years. Ey
the law sentences might be passed for four, five, or six
years. But the most important provision was that which
removed the difficulty of carrying into effect penal servi-
tude in the colonies. 'According to the Act of 1853, as
It was received, it was doubtful whether Parliament had
intended to allow the power of exercising penal servitude
in the colonies. In consequence of a demand for convicts
in Western Australia, the law officers of the Crown had
been consulted, and they took some time before they ar
rived at the conclusion that the Government had not the
power to send convicts to 'Western Australia. The pre-
sent law was this—that every person sentenced to penal
servitude might be confined in any part of this kingdom,
in any fortress or harbour thereof, or in any part of her
Majesty's dominions beyond the seas, or in any fortress
or harbour thereof, there to be kept to hard labour. The
law officers did not think that under this act Govern-
ment could send prisoners to Western Australia. The
Government no doubt could send prisoners out there,
but only as they sent them to Portsmouth or any other
place of confinement in the
_kingdom ; but as soon as
they were there, they would have to be confined, and
could not be set at liberty in the colonies ; and the pro-
vision of the act would then cease to apply, and the ad-
vantages of the mea ure would be altogether lost. There
were abundant means now of employing convicts in this
country in putlic works—at Portsmouth and Dart-
moor—to say nothing of Gibraltar and Malta. The fact
was, that there was not enough of convicts fit for labour
to meet the demand called for by the Admiralty. The
difficulty was, what to do with the convicts when relaxa-
tion of strict discipline became expedient. This was the
object of the provisions of the bill which be asked the
house to allow to be read a second time. It was to re-
move the present obstacles tosendingconvicts contended
to peual servitude to Western Australia or any other
colonies where it might be found expedient, and which
were willing to receive them. A committee of the
House of Lords bad recommended them to revert to the
old 'system of transportation, by taking out those who
would be useful to the colonies. But that was impos-
sible, as they could only take those who were sentenced
to long terms of transportation, and who had been
guilty of serious crimes. After the passing of the Act of
1353, the number of sentences of transportation had
greatly diminished, and from these they must deduct
persons in a weak state of health, and who would ho of
no use to the colony. The provisions contained in the
bill would enable Government, out of the convicts sen-
tenced to penal servitude, to select as they thought right
in respect of these persons, and with a due regard to the
nature of the crimes committed by them, in order to
send them to Western Australia, that they might there
undergo the rest of the sentence, and obtain any relaxa-
tion of their sentence, or a modification of its terms as
might put them into a condition to become more useful
members of society. The objection to this system was
that it produced an uncertainty and doubt in the carry-
ing out of the sentence, an element which it was desir-
able to avoid. Now he (Sir G. Grey) admitted the fact of
the uncertainty ; but if they desired absolute certainty,
they must forego altogether the existing system of trans-
portation. That could only be carried into effect by
selection, with regard to the man himself, or to the
facilities of employment in the colony. The objection was
not a now one. He should be glad to get rid of it, if be
could do so without sacrificing all the advantages of
transportation. It was an objection which applied as
fully to former systems of transportation as to the one
which would be in force if Parliament gave its sanction
to the bill which be introduced. The old system was to
detain the convict for some time in the hulks, and well-
conducted men were retained in this country. The House
of Commons had passed a resolution condemning this
practice, and in consequence suoh a number of convicts
were sent out that they deluged the land, and the result
was that the colonies became overwhelmed with convicts,
and the whole system broke down. He would take the
ten years from 1843 to 1852 inclusive, because these
were the years immediately preceding the bill of 1853.
During these ten years the number of convicts actuary
sentenced was 31,020, while the numbers actually trans-
ported were 22,322, making, 8,692 which were sentenced
and not transported. So that the uncertainty prevailed
in former times to the same extent as at present. Sen-
tences of transportation could not always be carried into
effect, while sentences of penal servitude could be carried
into effect at any time. It was impossible to know how
far it was possible to carry out sentences of transporta-
tion unless the man stood actually before you, and you
could know his physical capacity. The judge could not
tell what demand there might be for labour in the colo-
nies. It was, therefore, out of no distrust of the judge
that he was not allowed full di cretion. The judge might
let the criminal know what he had to expect, but there
would be always some uncertainty as to the details. He
would not then enter into the ticket-ofleave system.
The bill left the law as it found it on that subject. Thera
were now only a few convicts left with whom the sys-
tem was at present in operation. They had adopted the
spirit of the recommendation of the committee of that
house, which considers it desirable that a stimulus to good
conduct should be held out in shortening the terms of a
long sentence. In retaining the ticket-of leave system,
be felt that as a general rule an absolute remission of the
sentence should be observed rather than a qualified re-
mission. (Hear.) He would advert to a few matters of
detail. By the bill power was expressly given to the
courts of passing sentence of penal servitude for more
than two years. Again, certain penalties were imposed
by the present law on those who threatened to charge
others with crimes punishable by transportation. The
same penalties were extended by the bill to those who
should threaten to charge others with crimes punishable
with penal servitude. After these explanations, he
begged leave to move the second reading of the bill.
Mr. BENTINCK opposed the bill because he was
opposed to transportation altogether. It was only a
source of additional crime and demoralisation. In place
of transportation he would provide penal settlements at
home, and make the system of penal sentences self-sup-
porting, by the ereotion of harbours of refuge on different
parts of the coast, which could never be undertaken ex-
cept on some such plan as that he proposed. He moved
that the bill be read a second time that day six months.
Mr. ROEBUCK thought Sir G. Grey bad not touched
the real difficulty of the case. The great cause of crime
in this country was want of employment. Labourers
were plentiful, and the labourer tainted with crime was
shunned by everybody. The man must starve or steal.
They all knew which alternative the man would prefer.
It was impossible to send them to our colonies, for with
few esiceptions the colonies would not have them. The
was,oply ctohuarts ei
nt o
everywh ich
caseth e
housewas h
transportation,
up
shat
whenever therefore
fwas inflicted, should be for life ; and that a new penal
colony should be founded for them in some uninhabited
island in the South Sea. Of course that punishment
soriet
would only be inflicted on hardened offenders. After a
course of penal servitude in some existing colony, he
would remove them to this new colony ; and to preserve
an equality between the sexes, he would send out every
woman that was sentenced to transportation.
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON believed that the two
great causes of crime in this country were ignorance and
druilkenness—not want of work. As to the estab-
lishment of a new penal settlement, he confessed he was
once of that opinion himself ; but the more he con-
sidered the subject the more hopeless he considered the
subject to be. He approved generally of the bill ; but
he lamented that the uncertainty of punishment was
still to be allowed to a great extent. He defended the
principle involved in tickets of leave, and the Govern-
ment did not mean to exclude the element of hope from
a convict by carrying out every sentence to the letter.
Mr. COLLIER reminded the house that transporta-
tion had always succeeded when they were bent to colonies
where there was a demand for labour ; it bad failed
only when the convicts were sent merely to a prison
at the other end of the world. Now, the object of the
bill was to send convicts across the seas only in cases
where the colonies required their labour. If there was
no such colony to receive them, it was proposed to
retain them at home. He supported the general pro
visions of the bill.

Mr. DRUMMOND said if gentlemen would take
any ordinary map of the world they would discover
at least 1,000 plats where they might transport
their criminals. AU thesis difficulties arose from breaking
up a system which they had established to their hands,
only because of the abuses which they found attaching
to it. He contended that Government had nothing to
do with the reformation of criminals, their business was
to protect society. On these grounds he would be glad
to see the bill pass.
flr. Phillips also supported the bill ; as did Mr. Lyng,
Mr. Newdegate, Mr. John Ewart, and Mr. Liddell.
Mr. HENLEY complained of the vacillation of the
Government upon this question ; at one time abolishing
transportation altogether, end then reviving it again.
Fur his own part he condemned the system of tickets-of-
leave, and thought the more convicts were transperted
the better.

Mr. BAINES defended th 3 Government, and con-
tended that the experiment initiated by the. Government
had failed, and it was /10V7 necessary, therefore, to legis-
late in another direction.

After some observations from Mr. Whiteside, Mr,
Keating, and Mr. Packe,
Lord STANLEY said the real question was, whether
it would be possible permanently to continue transporta-
tion beyond the seae, or whether the time had not ar-
rived when the practice must necessarily cease. He had
read much on the subject, and had conversed with many
practically acquainted with the subject, and he felt satis-
fied ttmt any attempt to found a new penal settlement
would be an experiment necessarily ending in disanpoin t-
meet. The only places likely for such establi,hment,
were the Falkland Islands, Vancouver's 'sided, the
northern and southern ports of Hudson's Bay, and the
north Pert of Au tralia the objections to which he sever

BANK ACTS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the appointment of a select committee to inquire into the
operation of the Bank Act of 1844 and of the Bank Ante
for Ireland and Scotland of 1845. The right hon. gen•
tleman said the motion was similar to one to which the
house agreed in the last session. The committee was
then appointed, but only one witness had been examined
when their further proceedings were interrupted by the
dissolution.
Mr. 'ROEBUCK wished to know whether it was the
intention of the right hon. gentleman to move that this
should be a secret committee ? The last was a secret
committee, and it was a sort of locus pocus which he
did not understand.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it
had been the uniform practice of the house to have coin-
mittees of this description committees of secresy. The
only difference between committees of secresy and com-
mittees not of secresy, but which excluded the public
during the examination of witnesses, was, that in the
former case members were not able to go into the
room while the examination of witnesses was proceed-
ing. He did not attach any importance to the com-
mittee being a committee of secresy, and it was merely
in deference to the practice of the house that he moved
it should be so in the last session. There was nothing
in the relations between the Government and the Bank
of England which the Government desired to be con-
cealed ; but he believed it was thought questions might
be asked reflecting on the credit of the Bank, or involv-
ing matters which it might not be desirable to have dis-
cussed in public during the progress of the inquiry. If
the general opinion of the house was opposed to this
committee being a committee of secresy, he would not
press that point. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MALINS rejoiced that no time had been lost in
proposing the reappointment of this committee, but he
should have been glad if the Government, taking into
consideration the difficulties existing in the money mar-
ket, had brought forward a measure on their own
responsibility, because he did not think that the labours
of the committee would lead to legislation during the
present session. At present a state of things existed
which was most detrimental to the commercial interests
of the country. The rate of discount of the Bank of Eng-
land on the 21st March last was 6 per cent., and on the
2d April it was raised to 611 per cent., at which rate it
had since remained, and one day last week the Bank of
England had refused to make any advances upon Govere-
ment securities. It was most essential that in a commer-
cial country money should be procurable at an easy rate,
and if the present state of things continued it would be
the destruction of small operators. What had led to the
present state of things was the absurd division, by the
act of 1844, of the Bank of England into two depart-
ments, As he bad explained on a previous occasion, the
only resource which the Bank had to operate upon was
its reserve notes. and those were at present reduced to
3,500,0001., and gentlemen conversant with those mat-
ters would agree with him that when the amount of re-
serve notesfell below 5,000,000/. commercial transactions
in this country could never be carried on with advantage.
He would venture to say that war taxation had not been
so much felt by the commercial community as was the
present high rate of interest ; and the Government would
find that the commercial interest were beginning to be
alive to the importance of the question. The subject
seemed to him to be of such importance that he had felt
it hie duty to offer a few remarks to the house—(hear)---
and his principal object in rising had been to express the
hope that the Government would lose no time in bringing
forward a measure upon the subject, and that they would
not consider that having appointed this committee they
had discharged all their duty.. His suggestion was that
we should have by law the power of relaxing the act of
1844, and so important did, he consider the subject to be
that unless he saw the progress made by the committee
was such as to enable the Government to legislate d tir-
ing the present session, and if the existing pressure in
the money market should continue, he should, before
the close of the session, bring the whole subject under
the notice of the house, and submit to it a resolution for
its approval.
Mr. T. HANKEY said that from the observations
which had fallen from the hon. and learned gentleman
who had just spoken one would be inclined to conclude
that absolute ruin had' been brought upon the mercantile
community by the operation of the Act of 1844 ; but he,
for one, did net believe that the general rate of interest
had anything whatever to do with the working of that
Act. He did not wish that the opinion should prevail
out of doors that great commercial distress existed when
such was really not the case ; and in corroboration of his
opinion upon the suject he might add that when in Man-
chester the other day he had been informed upon the
best authority that the high rate of interest had bad no
effect whatsoever upon trade, which was in a most
thriving condition in Manchester, Liverpool, and in
other great commercial towns. His own experience in
London went to confirm that statement.
Mr. HUDSON expressed it to be his opinion that to
make the proposed committee one of secrecy would be
an useless proceeding, inasmuch as the committee of
1844, of which he had been a member, had been a
secret eornmittee, and yet all the evidence which had
been taken before it had been published to the world.
Sir R. Peal had attended most assiduously upon that
committee, and the acquisition of a great deal of infor-
mation had been the result of its laboure. Ho therefore
could not understand why further inquiry into the sub-
ject should be inetituted, and he thought that the Cean-
celior of the Exchequer should at once legislate with re-
spect to it, if legislation should be deemed to be necessary.
Mr. A. AYRTON contended that the proposed in-
quiry should be conducted *WI the utmost vigour and
subject connected
should embrace within its scope every

with the Bank of Englan73, and the relation which it bore
to the trade and commerce of the country. He wag of

opinion that, as there was no necessity for immediate
legislation open the matter, it would be highiy exile.
client that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should at

once introduce any measure in reference to the Act of

1344. The Bank Charter was now granted in perpetuity
with the liability to be redeemed whenever Parliament
should deem it desirable to take that course, and he might
state that he had been in communication with many
gentlemen of considerable authority upon the question
in the city of London who believed that that charter
might be altogecher abrogated with great advantage to
the community. There were others., however, who
thought that the Bank of England should again be
charged with the management of the whole currency of
the kingdom, and that such control would enable it to
relieve the esisting commercial distress. He was not
one of those who deemed that such a scheme would be