The Sun.
London, England, 1857-06-06 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EyENING, JUNE 1, 1857

rate, while those of the other Powers had increased.
That fact ought to be borne in mind in any arrangement
and the arrangement ought to embrace transit as well as
Sound dues.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS said the proposition of the
right hon. gentleman would, no doubt, be highly accept-
able to the Baltic merebants ; but he thought it was
most unjust to impose a tax on the people of this coun-
try to the amount of 1,125,0001. exclusively for the bene-
fit of those merchants. The right hon, gentleman had
given no reason whatever why America should not bear
a part of this gross amount.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY did not exactly understand
how the right ben. gentleman proposed to pay this
1,125,0001. He thought that this arrangement, which
would inflict all this amount of 1,125,0001. on the pub-
lic, would be unjust and unfair.
Mr. ADAMS thought this not a bad bargain, for it
was made according to the policy which frees commerce
without farther consideration of the policy, but, indeed,
that public were after all the parties in any case who
must sustain the burden, be it placed where it might.
America had not joined in that treaty, perhaps, because
she was not in the family of European nations. Besides,
she had always resisted the legality of the tax, which we
had not done ; but by paying] it we had subjected
ourselves to the necessity of paying it still, unless we
were to make use of force in clearing ourselves of the ob-
ligation. On these grounds he was disposed to sustain
the treaty.
After a few remarks from Mr. CLAY and Mr. RIDLEY
in favour of the arrangement,
Mr. J. WILSON said, as to the incidence of this tax,
it was quite clear that whether it fell immediately upon
the shipowner or the public, the public, as the consumers,
would be the parties who would ultimately have to pay
it, and not only to pay it, but for all the loss of time and
disadvantages incurred by the shipowner, if be pay it in
the first instance. The same observation applied to the
question whether the amount was to be charged on the
parties immediately relieved orlon the Consolidated Fund.
Besides, if the house considered that the goods received
from the Baltic were the raw material of our manufac-
tures, they would see that any toll or tax on them was
not only a: charge upon the consumer, but an impedi-
ment to our trade. Ile thought no better or more econo-
mical plan could be adopted than that devised by his right
hon. friend. As to the transit dues, he explained that a
deputation of merchants interested in the question waited
upon him, and that he in consequence requested the Fo•
reign-office, through the Treasury, to press the Danish
Government for a removal of these dues. But when they
received the letter of our Minister at Copenhagen (Mr.
Buchannan) they saw that the matter was closed, and
that it was treading on delicate ground to press it far-
ther upon the Danish Government. The Danish Minis-
ter in his communications to our Minister gave substan-
tial reasons for not acceding to the request of the
Engli-h merchants ; for besides the fact of the amount
of the dues having been reduced four-fifths, it was evi-
dent that a concession of the remaining fifth on this one
railway would necessitate a similar concessio❑ on all the
railways that passed through the Danish territory. The
Danish Minister, however, showed every disposition to
free the goods in transit from all unnecessary delay,
which appears now to be the chief ground of complaint.
He (Mr. Wilson), being desirous to contrive some plan
of classifying the goods on this side of the water so as to
conduce to their easy transit on the other side with as
little delay as possible, wrote to the merchants interested
in the matter, but they had taken no notice of his com-
munication, as if they had resigned all further interest
in the question. The Foreign-office, after the decisive
terms of Mr. Buchanan's letter, thought it better not to
push the matter on the Danish Government.
Mr. LIDDELL believed that a strong feeling existed
in the Danish Council itself in favour of the entire abo
lition of the dues. The small amount which the Danish
Government received was nothing as compared with the
great advantage which would accrue from their entire
abolition. He thought that the arrangement was in-
complete and unsatisfactory.
Mr. G. DUNDAS agreed with his hon. friend that
there should be an entire abolition of the dues. He
could not help feeling that the treaty was very incom-
plete.

Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE said it was not true that
Russia and England were placed upon the same footing.
Russia was entitled to a return. The dues in this ca-ie
did not fall, as was generally the case, upon the con-
sumer, but upon the producer.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE R said
that the sum upon which the redemption money was
calculated was the amount of shipping bills paid by the
vessels passing through the Sound. 75,7301. was the
amount received every year, which amount when capi-
talised was calculated by the Danish Government at GO
million rix dollars. Of this sum the amount falling to
the share of Great Britain was 1,893,0001., but the total
claitnel by the Danish Government was afterwards re-
duced from GO million rix dollars to 35 million rix dol-
lars. and the amount payable by England was reduced
from 1,893,3001. to 1,125,0001. If the Government, fol-
lowing the suggestions of the hon. member, were to re-
fuse to ratify the treaty, the consequence would be that
England would be obliged to negotiate singly instead of
in concert with the other powers, and Denmark could
not consent to grant us better terms tha❑ had been
granted to them. The consequence of refusing to assent
to the treaty would be to transfer their Baltic trade from
Great Britain to the other Powers. He found that the
average annaal amount of dues paid by America was
911 r'x dollars, while the amount paid by Great Britain
was 35,373 rix dollars, so that Great Britain was much
more concerned i❑ the matter than America. The num-
ber of English vessels passing the Sound in 1845 was
3,645 ; in 1849, 0,800 ; in 1850 51-52, there was a di-
minution ; in 1554.55, during the war, the number fur-
ther decreased to 2,424 ; but in 1856, the number was
raised to 4,772. He believed that the treaty into which
the Government had entered was as beneficial as could
be obtained, and the house must either assent to the
terms agreed upon, or continue upon the same footing as
at present.
The resolution was then agreed to.
SERGEANTS' GOOD CONDUCT PAY.

On the order for going into committee of supply upon
the army estimates,
Sir J. TREIAWNY asked the Under Secretary for
War, whether the Minister for War had any intention of
taking into his favourable consideration thecase of certain
sergeants who appear to be accidentally excluded from
the intended benefits conferred upon non-commissioned
officers by the order of lath Jan., 1857 ! He explained
that, previous to that order, private soldiers were entitled
to ld. a-day for every five years of good service, but when
they were made sergeants they did not obtain the benefit
of their good
.service. The object of the order was to do
away
and to give sergeants the full
benfitwoitfhtthhelisr Parneovropalsygood conduct ; but by some ac-
cident. he believed, in the wording of the order, it ap-
plied only to sergeants who were created subsequently
to the order, and not to those who then held that rank.
He hoped that the attention of Government being drawn
to the matter they would take care to remedy the griev-
ance.

Gen. WINDHAM confirmed the statement of the
hon. member. He himself knew several cases in which
men who had been sergeants with good conduct stripes,
for upwards of 16 years, got no addition to their pay for
good service, while men who were raised to the rank of
sergeant since the issuing of the order were receiving 3d.
per day additional. .5001. a-year would correct this ano-
maly.

Sir J. RAMSDEN.said the hon. baronet the member
for Tavistock han only done justice to the feelings of the
noble lord the Secretary of State for War in expressing
an opinion that it was his intention to do that which was
right to all parties. It was acknowledged by all hon.
gentlemen that the subject was a very difficult one to
deal with, in consequence of the various regulations
ender which these things were governed. He thought he
could venture to say that all the anomalies caused by
the regulations would be taken into consideration and
rectified.

Gen. CODRINGTON hoped the position of the ser•
geants would be favourably considered. Those sergeants
who bad served long and exhibited good conduct were
now placed in a lower or worse position than men re-
cently made sergeants. This was a hard case, and re-
quired attention.

Col. NORTH said he wished the house to consider this
case: —Two men joined the army at the same period.
Before being five years in the army they were made ser-
geants, and continued so until after 10 years. One man
c.iminitted some fault and was reduced to the ranks
again, but having served 10 years as a sergeant he be•
came as a private entitled to 2d. per day extra pay, one
penny of which would be deducted for a time for his bad
conduct. Having exhibited good condnct for a year, the
penny would be restored, and at the end of 15 years he
would be made a sergeant, and receive his 3d. a-day ;he
would thus be paid his ls. 101 a-day and the 3d., while
the man who had exhibited good conduct throughout his
career would receive only his pay of ls. 10d. a-day.
These regulations were evidently a mistake at the time
they were made, and he now hoped they would be
rectified.

Gen. WILLIAMS said the anomalies of the case bad
been so fully stated by the gallant officers that he would
merely express his conlictton that they would do right
by raising the moral conduct of sergeants to the highest
position they could. He trusted their case would have
a favourable consideration.

Lord V.ll-EINIP—E—S7I7B;i'd they had only the opportu-
nity of starting this question annually, and when they
did so they received a courteous and favourable answer,
hut it was shortly after forgotten.
The house thou went into a couitnitteo of supply, slr.
FITZitoY in the chair.
ARMY ESTIMATES.
_ _

On the sum 0f462:453/.—(in addition to the sum of
231,000/. previously granted on account) being proposed
to be granted to defray the expenses of barracks at home
and abroad,
Ccpt. VIVIAN complained of the vote proposed for
the camp at Aldershot, the amount of which ho con-
fessed struck him with extreme surprise. Chobliam
proved a much better place than Aldershot for the sol-
diers to learn the rudiments of their military duties. He
should like to know will was the person responsible for
selecting the site of Aldershot ; but it seemed that no.
body could be found to take this responsibility upon
him.laThe young soldier would literally learn nothing
of his military duties there. (Hear, hear.) If the Go-
vernment reduced the army to a peace establishment,
they would not require permanent barracks. He ob-
jected to Aldershot both in a strategical and economi-
cal point of view, and also as a point of policy, and
therefore, he should move to reduce the vote by 50,0001.
for this year, and next year he should move to refer the
matter to a select committee.
Sir F. SMITH considered that it would not be wise
to arrest the progress of these large buildings at the pre-
sent moment. Aldershot was first occupied with a view
to bringing together the great body of the militia of the
country. He believed that 30,000 of the militia volun-
teered at Aldershot to proceed to the Crimea, Great