The Sun.
London, England, 1857-02-14 00:00:00

TIM SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EYENI'NG, FEBRUARY 14, 1857.

items 1,20,0901., making a total of 66,365,0001. The total
expenditure and discharge of liabilities I estimate at
65,474,000/., and there will thus be a probable surplus of
891,000'., which is not more than it will be prudent to
reserve for the contingent expenditure of tee year. The
totsl amount of taxation which I propose to taxe off in the
present year will be found in the following table
" Malt tax, loss in 1857-S (in addition to 200,C30/. in
1856-7) 2.000,0001. ; income tax (to be reduced to 7d. and
5d.), 9,125,0001. ; tea (to be reduced from is, 9d. tole. 7d.
per lb.), 369,000/. ; coffee (to be reduced from 4d. to 3d.
per lb.), 135,000/. ; sugar (to be reduced from an average of
its. 4d. to l 3s. 4d.), 342,0001.; total rt duction, 11,',71,000/."
Of this total of 11,971,0001., about 7,600,00/. will be a de-
duction from the Exchequer receipts for the ensuing year,
1857.8. If the committee should adopt the plan which I
have proposed I believe that sufficient revenue will be
provided to meet the liabilities of the Exchequer for the
payment of the bonds due in the three years commencing
from the Ist of April, for the extinction of the sinking
fund, and also for the payment of the increase interest on
the debt, leaving some margin for any slight increase in
the army, navy, or civ!l service, estimates, beyond the
amount at which they now stand. If the liabilities created
by the 40,000.0001. of debt contracted during the war
should be discharge according to the plan which has been
laid down by Parliament, and according to that which
I am now proposing for the next three years, and if fur-
ther accruing liabilities should be met by a corresponding
provision, I calculate that the entire debt created by the
war will have been extinguished by the year 1877. More
than half of the extraordinary expenditure of the war was
defrayed from taxation, the remaining half by loans ;
and this portion, as I have just said, if the arrangement I
purpose is adopted, will be extinguished in about 20 years.
It seems to me that such a state of things affords a favour-
able retrospect of the arrangements male during this war.
(Hear.) It shows the greater providence of the present
generation, and if our ancestors had treated us as well as
we are about to treat posterity we should not at the pre-
sent time be loaded with the burden of a debt of
800,000,010/. (Hear, hear.) lam afraid I have detained
the committee at an unreasonable length, but they must be
aware that in the discharge of important duties such as that
which I have just attempted to discharge it is important
that every material fact bearing upon the question at issue
should be laid before those with whom the decision rests,
and I would rather incur the charge of tediousness and pro-
lixity than fail to submit to the consideration of the com-
mittee any matters which may be necessary or useful to
guide their judgments. (Hear.) Ido not believe that I
have troubled them with anything with is immaterial to
the matters under consideration. With regard to the plan
which I have proposed, being, as I know it is, dictated by
public motives, and being intended to conduce to the gene-
ral welfare of the country, I do not doubt that it will re-
ceive a dispassionate and impartial consideration, and
that hon. gentlemen will form their judgment upon it, not
with any reference to the side of the house on which they
sit, but with more enlarged views, and with a sense of the
responsibility under which we labour in making a provision
so important for the future happiness and prosperity of the
community. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman
(having spoken about two hours and three-quarters) con-
cluded by moving that a sum not exceeding 2,000,000% be
granted to her Majesty to meet the payments due on ac-
count of Exchequer-bonds.
The CHAIRMAN having put the question,
Mr. GLADSTONE said —I am aware that it is the usual
practice to abstain from discussing in detail the various propo-
sitions of the budget on the night it is brought forward, and
considering the comprehensive nature of the statement which
my right hon. friend has made, and the gravity of much of
the matter which it contains, I have never known an occasion
ou which it would be more inexpedient to depart from that
,rule. I have no intention, therefore, of making any remarks
upon the important questions which arise out of my right
hon. friend's speech. My only object in rising now is to ask
him one or two questions as to matters of fact, and also to
express a hope that, as the resolution which he has just moved
seems to form a portion of the policy of the budget, he will
not ask us to give a vote upon it to-night. It does not refer
to the execution of any contract immediately pending; but
it does form part of the policy which this house will have to
decide upon, and, therefore, before taking any vote upon it,
time ought to be given to allow of a calm and impartial con-
sideration of his whole scheme. (Hear.) When my right
hon. friend spoke of the sum of 150,0001. as being the loss
consequent upon the change in the law respecting bills of
exchange, I presume that before charging that loss he took
credit for the proceeds of the stamps on foreign bills of ex-
change. My right hon. friend spoke of the loss of 285,0001.
upon assessed taxes in the year 1854-5, as a loss which was
to be reckoned in-the light of an addition to the remissions
since 1853. In answer to that I beg to assure my right hon.
friend that, that loss was distinctly included in the calcula-
tions of 1853, and was before the house when those proposals
were made. I wish, also. to ask my right hon. friend a
question with respect to the table which he has given us of
the proposed relief to consumers, He spoke of a loss of
2,000,000/. on the malt tax as included in his proposal, but,
if I understand rightly the state of the law, that loss of
2,000,0001. does not depend upon any proposal of his, but is
one of the consequences of the law as it now stands, and there-
fore does not form part of any loss which we are going to in-
flict upon the consumer. My right hon. friend also spoke of
a loss upon tea, coffee, and sugar ; but, if I understand the
state of the case lightly, as regards tea and sugar, he is not ping
to lose money, but to gain it—that is, he is going to impose upon
those articles a duty, lower certainly than that which is levia-
ble at the present moment, but higher than that which would
be leviable after the sth of April next according to the present
law, and therefore it is not a question of granting relief from
taxation upon tea and sugar, but it is, as far as it goes, a ques-
tion of increasing the rates of duties payable upon those com-
modities. If that be so, I think it would be for our convenience
if my right hon. friend, having stated the case one way—hav-
ing shown the loss which will be sustained in the reduction
from the swar rate of duties—would supply us with figures
showing the gain he expects to realise from his new duties as
compared with those which would take effect under the pre-
sent law. I confess I should like to know the calculations of
my right hon. friend on these points. They comprise nattet s
merely of fact ; all discussion upon the case I. propose to re-
serve. It would be therefore convenient, as well as, I think, in
accordance with usage, not to take a vote upon the resolution
to-night. (Hear, hear,)
Mr. ALCOCK hoped that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would not be induced, either by what he had heard in that
house, or by what had. occurred out of doors, to lower the in-
come tax beiMia the' amount he had announced to-night, for
he belicTcd that if the tita.a(iloa de.l.lnA i,J, kho
working millions in this country, insteiCaltby the holders of
property in that house, it would be in favour of tiaa,tion of all
incomes from beginning to end.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said there was one point which
he could not clearly understand. Did the Chancellor of the
Exchequer estimate that the whole expense of the Persian war
would fall upon this part of the empire ? There was something
like 265,0001., and somebody would have to pay it. He would
like to know on what basis the calculation was made I
Mr. WARNER thought it would be very desirable to have
some information as to what was intended to be done with the
income tax at the end of three years. The people were disposed
to put up with it for two or three years longer at the rate at
which it would now be levied, but if they were.to uuderstand
that it would become an ordinary tax it would prove an endless
source of dissatisfaction and ill will to the Government.
Mr. WILLIAMS expressed his approval of the clear and
intelligible manner in which the Chahcellor of the Exchequer
had laid his financial statement before the house. The right
hon. gentleman bad made some observations upon the sug-
gestion of bringing within the range of the income tax per-
sons who had less than 150/. a-year ; but he could assure the
house that the pressure which the tax already exerted upon
those persons with that income was perfectly incredible, and
he would feel it his duty to oppose any attempt which might
be made to tax incomes less than 150/.
Sir F. BARING inquired whetker the loss on the malt duty
was 2,000,000/., without including the drawback, or nearly
3,000,000/. including it. ,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
2,000,0001. was below the highest amount,
Sir F. BARING expressed a hope that the right hon. gen-
tleman would state upon what day he proposed to take the
resolutions, so that the house might know when the debate
might come off.

After a few words from Mr. BLACKBURN, Mr. B. COCHRANE,
and Mr. HADFIELD,

Mr. ALEXANDER HASTIE said•he would have preferred,
instead of the proposed varying duties ou tea, that a uniform
duty of Is. sd. in the pound for three years had been pro-
posed, and lls. Bd. per cwt. on sugar for the same period.
There would have been no loss, but rather an advantage, to
the revenue by this plan, and it would have been more satis-
factory to the trade.

Mr. MURROUGH observed that no Minister could have re-
signed a tax more ungracefully than the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. If they would act fairly to the nation, abolish the
income tax altogether.

Mr. W. EWART supported the plan-which had been sug-
gested by the Chancellor of the Exchequer with regard to the
tea and sugar duties. He thought that the inconae tax was
condemned by the sense of the country, but that a certain
amount of property tax "ought to be retained.
Mr. BLACK believed that the plan of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would give very general satisfaction.
Mr. DISRAELI asked whether it was, the intention of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer to press his resolutions that
evening ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied in the
negative.
Mr. DISRAELI said that, in consequence of that assurance,
he should abstain at present from making any comments upon
them. _ . . . _

Mr. OLIVEIRA. thought,nuedarunpvon a w
' reviewhen a
ofretdh=
trade that O. ttuu a
in the
uw,e& v. wreign wines would be desirable; in other respects
he approved of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's arrange.
ments.
Mr. WILSON, with respect to the question of the tea and
sugar duties, thought that ali. thnse hon. gentlemen who
had differed from his right hon. friend the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would find that the Objections they entertained
were rather applicable to their own plans. Any large reduc-
tion in the duty upon au article was always found by expert.,
ence to listurb very materially the trade in that article ; in-
asmuch is, for a long time previous to the reduction, persons
were in the habit of withdrawing from transactions, whereas,
if the reduction was small, the motive for disturbance was not
so great He had the authority of Sir T. Fremantle for the
observation, that in dealing with sugar duties, exactly iu
proporton as the changes in the duty were gradual was the
amount of inconvenience tO trade less. As the law now stood,
the dutres would be remitted in two years—one-half of the war
duty would expire on the sth April next, the other half on the
sth Aril following. By the proposed arrangement the change
woule be less sudden.

Mr, BARING said he must make the observation that the
speeches on the opposite side of the, house had been made as
if the Government were according a favour to the country in-
reduclug their duties, whereas the dealers in'tea and sugar
bad been, to a certain extent, deluded by Government, who
had, in fact, imposed upon them additional taxes to pay.
After a few words from Mr. WILSON in explanation.
The CHANCELLOR of the .EXCHEQUER. said that the
arrangement with the Sardinian Government as to the loan
with respect to the payment of the interest at 3/. per cent.
and the formation of a sinking fund of IL per cent., had been
,duly performed, and the Government had every reason to be-
lieve that it would continua to be so. With respect to our
differences with Persia, negotiations were pending, as had
been stated, with the Pwrsian Minister at Paris, and her Ma-
jesty's Government had reason to hope that those negotia-
tions would lead to a satisfactory arrangement of the Pemba
difficulty. (Hear, hear.) , Under these circumstances the
Government certainly were not entitled to presume, as matter
of course, on the existence of war in Persia throughout the
year, and all therefore that he, proposed to ask for war ex-
penses, under the head of Persia, was that which would, in
accordance with the arrangement subsisting between the Go-
vernment and the East India. Company, become due before
the Ist of April next. He had no objectjon to lay before the
house a table showing the liabilities of.the country on aceount
of the debts incurred for the late war. With respect to the
malt duty, the full effect of the reduction that had been. made
woullbe felt next year, and would then amount to about
2,000,0001. The right hon. gentleman concluded by thank-
ing the committee for their; attention and consideration that
evening, and sa,id that he would, with their permitted,* xe,