The Sun.
London, England, 1861-03-09 00:00:00

POOR LAIV MEDICAL OFFICERS.

In reply to Mr. BEEcnorr,
Mr. VILLIERS said he was not aware that medical
officers attached to unions were not remunerated for their
professional services.
Slit BA.LDIVIN WALKER.

Sir J. PAKINGTON—Sir, I rise to put a question to
the noble lord the Secretary of the Admiralty, of which I
have given him private notice. I have this morning re-
ceived a letter from a gentleman at Devonport, who is well
known to me, and who, I think I may venture to say,
would not have made me any statement which he did not
believe to be strictly accurate. My object in putting the
question is to ascertain from the noble lord whether the
statement which I have received is true; and, as I think it
is necessary that it should be understood with the Utmost
precision, if the house will permit me I shall read it. (hear.)
" Davenport, March 7.
"Dear Sir,—lt appears the Admiralty telegraphed to the
autkorities here to despatch the Avon to intercept the Nar-
cissus, with a view to recall Sir B. Walker.
"The Port-Admiral replied that the Himalaya was under
steam, and, being a very fast vessel, whether it would not
be better to send her out to look after the Narcissus.

_ •
"The Admiralty answered, No • send the Avon;'
showing they had no wish to recall Fir B. Walker. The
Avon is a mere tub."

(Laughter and cheers.) I merely wish to ask the noble
lord, is that statement true (Cheers.)
Lord C. PAGET—Sir, in reply to the question of my right
hon. friend, perhaps the best thing I can do is to quote the
telegrams that passed on this subject between the Admiralty
and the Port-Admiral. (Hear, hear.) I must, however,
premise these by saying that tho Himalaya has been under
repairs in the dockyard of Devonport ; that her cylinders
have been very defective, and that it was very doubtful
whether she might not require new ones. This explana-
tion will make the telegrams more intelligible :

"March 5.
"From Plymouth to the Admiralty.—The Himalaya has
gone out on her trial.—(ltcceived at 11.42 a.m.)
" To Plymouth.—Send the Avon to the southward of the
Eddystone to endeavour to intercept the Narcissus. Make
the officer the bearer of an order to Sir B. Walker to repair
to Devonport.—(Sent 11.52 a.m.)
" From Plymouth—The llimalaya is just returning into
the Sound. Shall she also proceed in search of the Nar-
cissus?—(Received 1.21 p.m.)
" To Plymouth—Why does she return so soon ? (Laugh-
ter.) What is the state of the weather ? (Renewed laugh •
ter.)—(Sent at 1.38 p.m.)
" From Plymouth—l have signalised to the Himalaya to
know why she has returned. In answer to a question pre-
viously asked whether trial was satisfactory, she has signa-
lised,' Cannot report until to-morrow morning.' Heather,
moderate and overcast ; wind, west
,by south.—(Received
2.24 ma.)
" from Plymouth—The Himalaya's trial is concluded.
but officers cannot report until cylinders have been examined
inside.—Kßeceived 2.44 p.m.)
To Plymouth—The Himalaya need not be sent in
search of the Narcissus in addition to the Avon. (Laugh-
ter, and Hear, hear.)—(Sent 3 pm.)
"From Plymouth—The Avon proceeded under steam at
3 p.m.—(Received 3.30 pm.)"

These were the telegrams received on that day. On the
day following this telegram was received :

"March 6.
" From Plymouth—Examination of the Himalaya con-
cluded. The hull appears perfectly sound ; the after
cylinder is so defective that the ship could not proceed to
sea without incurring serious risk. Written report will he
sent by post.—(ll,eceived 11.27 a.m.)"

(Hear, hear.)
Sir J. pAKINGTON—I wish now to put the question
which I asked yesterday, and which the noble lord a tid he
could not answer without notice. I want to know whether
there were not other steamers—fast and powerful steamers,
one of them being the Jason—in Plymouth harbour, at the
disposal of the Admiralty, at the time they sent out the
Avon to bring back Sir Baldwin Walker ? (Hear, hear.)
Lord C. PAGET could only say that, under all the circum-
stances, the Admiralty considered that the best vessel that
could be sent was the Avon. He regretted those constant
and unremitting attacks on the Admiralty—(cheers from the
Ministerial benches) made it necessary for him to go parti-
cularly into the circumstances of the case. The Avon was
ordered to go out into the Channel to cut off the Narcissus,
not to follow her. (Hear.) No vessel lying at Devonport
could possibly have followed a smart-going steam frigate
like the Narcissus. (Hear, hear.) The order given to the
Avon was to cut her off, and she had endeavoured to do so.
11,..shad seen the log of other vessels of war coming up the
uhutnel—that of the Penguin for example—which fell in
with the Narcissus, and it was a curious fact that the Avon
muswt_h. a_v_e been very close to her. (A laugh.)
Tern"eient;ot
adigiNGHANI wished to know whether the Go-
ted that it was impossible to bring back Sir
B. Walkerrait
?
Sir J. ELPIIINSTONE looked upon this as a matter of
very great importance
On Friday night several members
called on the Gove
ruwlneno.uldt to recall Sir B. Walker. (Cries
of " Order.")
conclude with a motion, in order
that he might be in order Sir B. Walker was then in Yar-
mouth Roads, where thOp.rocereediSaUS lay till 10.30 on Mon-
day morning, when she
to sea.
-then such that he Was RatiSfiNt'Mla The weather was
had
here)-L.fand the inference
ceeded to sea of his own free will would have pro-
(Chneeosrced to go to sea,
be drew was that Sir B. Walker
hsoalliad laughter.)
and with orders not to bo caught.
and gallant
Lord C. PAGET rose to order. The
gentleman's statements were totally unfounded.
Sir
Walker had no such orders from the Admiralty. (Rea
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE wanted to get at the bottom of of
this transaction. (Cheers.) He wished for more information.
O, way rose te order, Vac time f9r 48WPg (11194.

tions had not passed, and till then no statement could be
made by any member.
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE would move the adjoin nment of
the house to put himself in order. (Hear.) It La hoved the
Admiralty to clear up this question. The h-vse had ap-
pointed a committee of inquiry into the doing-of.-the Admi-
ralty, and Sir B. Walker would be of the !.,,) eatest service
on that committee. He had been for 20 yc- rs- Surveyor of
the Navy ; he had been concerned in two reconstructions of
the navy, and understood snore of the working of the Admi-
ralty than any other man. (Hear.) He had nevertheless
been sent to the Cape of Good Hope, and his belief was that
the labours of the committee would be futile without the
assistance of that officer. (Hear, hear.) He wished to
know whether Sir B. Walker had not been forced to sea at
a time when no ship, on account of the weather, would
naturally have proceeded to sea, and in a gale of wind ?
(Hear, hear.) He would also ask whether the Himalaya
was not fit enough, even with her injured cylinders, to go
to work in the Channel, though not fit to go to the East or
West Indies? (Hear, hear.) Instead of employing her the
Admiralty sent out an old used-up paddle steamer worth
nothing. (Hear, hear.) All she could do was to get a little
southwards of Eddystone, off the Lizard, and there stop.
He asked why the Narcissus was ever allowed to pass
Hurst Castle on Monday night, after the expression of
opinion in that house on the previous Friday, and he sug-
gested that if the Admiralty were to send a fast vessel to
Madeira, Sir B. Walker could yet be got. (Hear.) He then
moved the adjournment of the house.
Mr. W. S. LINDSAY said the hon. and gallant member
for Portsmouth had on Friday expressed a desire that Sir
B. Walker should be kept at home.
.The noble lord the
Secretary to the Admiralty then said that the Government
had no objection to that course. The only one he could con-
sult was the hon. and gallant member (Admiral Duncombe),
who had moved for the appointment of the committee, and
that hon. and gallant member distinctly stated that he did
not think the evidence of Sir B. Walker would be required
before the committee. (Hear.) The noble lord, having
no other one to consult, did not then take any steps to
detain Sir B. Walker; tbut two nights afterwards the
right hon. gentleman the member for Droitwich expressed
a strong opinion that Sir B. Walker should be detained,
and even went so far as to say that the committee would
be a total failure unless he was detained. Other mem-
bers spoke to the same effect, and then the Government
adopted every means in their power to stop Sir Baldwin
Walker. (No, no.) He must say he was surprised at the
number of telegraphs that had passed to and fro on the sub-
ject, and he doubted whether even the Himalaya could
have overtaken the Narcissus. The Admiralty, he believed,
took the only course that was practicable, and he could tell
gentlemen that it was not so easy a matter to intercept a
vessel at sea. So far as he could see the Admiralty had done
all in their power to carry out the wishes of the house.
Mr. HENLEY wished to put a question to the gallant
admiral (Duncombe) who had moved for the committee.
Now that the house had been informed of the fact that Sir
B. Walker had escaped, he asked whether his hon. and gal-
lant friend would be kind enough to postpone the nomina•
tion of the committee till Monday or Tuesday. He had
agreed to serve on the committee, but he wished to have
time to consider whether he ought now to serve on it or not,
having great doubts whether the committee could be of any
public utility. They must remember that this was no ordi-
nary committee, but one which would have to undergo
great and lengthened labour; and the question with him
was whether, in the absence of Sir B. Walker, its labours
would be of any use. (Hear.)

Admiral DUNCOMBE begged to state that he had not
the slightest objection to postpone the nomination of the
committee. (Hear.) His desire, however, was, that now
the house had (Melded to have a committee, no unnecessary
delay in its appointment should take place. Some delay
had already taken place in consequence of the motion
brought forward the other evening by the hon. and gallant
member for Portsmouth. He wasin doubt whether his hon.
and gallant friend, having carried his motion for a commit-
tee on another subject, would be able to serve on the Admi-
ralty committee. lie found that his hon. and gallant friend
would still be able to serve on the committee, and he was
desirous that as little further delay should take place as pos-
sible. lle should be sorry if anything prevented his right
hon. friend (Mr. Henley) from serving on the committee,
as his presence upon it would be of the greatest possible im-
portance. (Hear, hear.) He must say that he thought a
great stalking horse had been made of this matter of Sir B.
Walker. (Cheers.) He had already stated, and he was still
of the same opinion, that the presence of Sir B. Walker
before the committee was not necessary, seeing he had
already been examined by the Dock Commission. (Hear.)
That commission was about to report, and nothing would
be easier than to refer Sir B. Walker's evidence to the select
committee. The fact was that Sir B. Walker was so anxious,
and he might say over• careful, as to every word he said,
that he was not so good a witness as might be supposed,
and his evidence already in print would be more valuable
than Sir Baldwin himself. It was evident that the Admi-
ralty had made one mistake—in not putting the Avon under
the command of his hon. friend the member for Portsmouth
—(a laugh)—for his hon. friend (Sir J. Elphinstone) said
nothing would have been easier than to have cut him off.
Naval officers sent on special orders were, however, he
thought, usually active and diligent, and he felt satisfied
that if it had been possible the duty would have been accom-
plished. When he understood that the Government ac-
ceded to his commission, and that Sir B. Walker would be
detained to give evidence before it, if the committee thought
it necessary, he expressed an opinion that the public service
demanded that the gallant admiral should leave this country
and repair to his station as rapidly as possible. Sir Baldwin
was appointed to his command before the committee was
thought of, and, as the Cape of Good Hope station had
been without a commander for six or eight months, he
could not allow the public service to suffer from any sup-
posed necessity for the presence of that individual. (Hear.)
Lord C. PAGET—I am only going to say one word in
answer to the hon. baronet (Sir J. Elphinstone). I stated
distinctly that the Admiralty had not either publicly or
privately given any order to Sir B. Walker to get away as
soon as he could, so as to avoid any chance of being stopped.
Sir Baldwin's orders were sent to him on Wednesday, and
he did not leave until Saturday. There has been no further
communication with him, and the first knowledge of his
whereabouts was a letter from him received at the Admiralty
on Wednesday, stating that he was under way, and had
left Yarmouth Roads within the Needles on the morning of
the 4th. It is a totally inaccurate assertion that the Admi-
ralty desired to force him of. It is equally inaccurate to state
that the Admiralty, when they had the opportunity of stop-
ping him in Yarmouth Roads, failed to do so. (Cheers.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON—I should not have taken any part
in this discussion—(Oh, oh, and laughter)—but for the
speech of the hon. member for Sunderland. As long ago as
the I.sth of February I spoke to the hon, gentleman the
Secretary to the Treasury, and also to the noble lord the
Secretary to the Admiralty, and expressed my strong
opinion that the evidence of Sir B. Walker was necessary
for the committee, and that I heped he would receive an in-
timation that it was necessary for him to stay and be exa-
mined. Then I explained to the house why, in my opinion,
it was of importance that Sir B. Walker should be exa-
mined. Nothing further occurred until Thursday in last
week, when the hon. gentleman the member for Ports-
mouth, in moving his resolutions relative to the Admiralty
made a strong statement of the importance of Sir B. Walker's
evidence. 1 followed, and repeated my opinion to the same
effect. The noble lord the Secretary to the Admiralty then
gave a pledge that if it were the wish of the House of Com-
mons Sir B. Walker should be detained.

Lord C. PAGET—I really must correct the right hon.
gentleman. (Cries of Order.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON—I have stated nothing that is not
correct. (Hear, hear.) The next night my right hon. friend
(Mr. Henley) repeated his strong opinion that Sir B.
Walker ought to give evidence. On both occasions these
opinions were received by the house in the manner in which
it is the habit of hon. members to express their concurrence.
(Hear, hear.) There was the wish of the hon. gentleman
(Sir J. Elphinstone), that of my right hon. friend (Mr.
Henley), and my own, all strongly declarei, against which
no strong opinion was expressed, except by the gallant
gentleman (Admiral Duncombe) who told the noble lord
he did not wish to detain Sir B. Walker. This occurred on
Friday night, and on Saturday morning Sir B. Walker went
to sea. Late on Monday evening I called the attention of
the Government and of the house to the circumstances under
which Sir B. 'Walker was sent to sea, and what occurred
then ? The noble lord, the Secretary to the Admiralty, in
answer to an appeal made to him by myself and others,
pledged himself that night to take steps which should
secure the recal of Sir B. Walker. The noble lord the Prime
Minister followed, and his expression was "immediate steps
shall be taken." We have now heard from the noble lord
the manner in which that twofold pledge Was redeemed.
Nothing was done that night. At nearly 12 o'clock next
day a telegram was sent down to Devonport, and an order
was given that the Avon, the slowest vessel in the service
—(a laugh)—at least one of the slowest—should be sent
after the Admiral, while two or three of the most powerful
vessels in the service were at the disposal of the Admiral(
(Cries of " Hear, hear I") This the noble lord
-f7cgot, or he
y.
meta did all they
thatof
Sirth e
50,
owalker. (Cheers.)
Mr. BENTINCK sal!"
that occasional discussions of this
cwoottuldldtonesveceurrheatvhee said
durn
kind were very re,freshing—(a laugh)—but fair play and a
proper understanding of the merits of the case should not
be lc,st sight of. The noble lord (C. Paget) had been dis-
tinctly charged with having broken his pledge to this
house. (No') Now, having been present at all the dis-
cussions on this subject, and having been nominated to
serve on the committee, he had listened with great atten-
tion to what took place, and he felt bound 'to say that this
charge against the noble lord was totally unfounded.
(Loud cheers, and a voice from the Opposition benchei,—
" There has been no such charge.") Yes, the net'', jord had
been charged distinctly with having broirc4 his pledge—
(eheers)—and that charge was, he thotticht, without founda-
tion. (Hear, hear.) An appeal had been Made to the noble
lord, and he expressed the willingness of the Admiralty to
detain Sir B. Walker if sueh were the wish of the house.
After consulting the host, and gallant Admiral, however,
the noble lord found that the committee did not think it
necessary for the gallant Admiral to remain. A suggestion
had certainly been made on that (the Opposition) side, but
it had not been followed up by any distinct motion or re-
-19911114M4ti94 91; 40,091-4 C" 9)4n—owl tin i 4019 ,

lord was therefore, he thought,. exonerated from the charge
of having violated any pledge. (Hear.) The noble lord
and the Admiralty had been charged with having trifled
with the house in undertaking to recall Sir B. Walker.
Hon. members had gone on harping on the fact that the
Himalaya was not sent after him. Reasons had been given
by the noble lord. The Avon, it was true, was a very slow
boat, as slow as a tub. (A laugh.) But every man conver-
sant with the subject must know that the object in sending
out the Avon was not to chase the Narcissus, but to cut
her off—(cheers)—and if only three knots an hour could be
got out of her, she was just as competent for that duty as
the fastest steamer. (" Oh, oh I" and " Hear, hear."); Ho
challenged his hoa. friends to disprova this statement. It
It appeared from the log of the Avon, that so far from being
unable on account of her slowness to cut off the Narcissus,
she was actually dodging in the track of the Narcissus a t
the time the Narcissus passed Plymouth; but the state of
the weather prevented any communication between the two
vessels. He, therefore, asked what would have been gained
by the sending out a vessel which would go 12 knots,
in preference to one that could only go 7 knots an hour, if
the vessel going 7 knots arrived at her destination in time ?
(Hear, hear.) This entirely disposed of any suspicion that
the Admiralty had not done all that could have been dGne
under the circumstances. He quite agreed with the gallant
admiral, the member for the East Riding, that the exami-
nation of Sir B. Walker was not necessary, and he could
not listen to the observations made by many hon. members
in total misconception without stating his own views on
the subject.
Mr. CONINGHAM said that the real question was whe-
ther it was necessary that Sir B. Walker should appear
before the committee, and whether the house expressed a
desire the other evening that that gallant officer should be de-
tained. lie had heard the whole discussion and went home
with the conviction that Sir B, Walker's progress to his
station would be stopped. When the position, which Sir B.
Walker had held, was considered, it seemed like trifling with
the house to send that gallant officer abroad on the eve of
an important investigation respecting the navy—(hear,
hear), and he was of opinion that the Government were
bound to produce him as a witness. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. COCHRANE expressed his regret that at the very
time when a committee of inquiry was being appointed, the
hon. member for Portsmouth should have made observa-
tions tending to raise doubts as to the veracity of the Admi-
ralty.

Sir L. PALK said that, recollecting how eager a refor-
mer of abuses at the Admiralty the present noble Secretary
to that Board used to be, he should have thought that the
noble lord would have made every effort to bring all the
evidence possible before the committee. (Cries of " Ques-
tion I") He was convinced that the opinion out of doers
would be that fair play had not been exhibited towards that
house, and that the Admiralty had managed to get rid of
one who might have Frovad a very inconvenient witness
for them.

Mr. PAULL wanted to know whether or not Sir B.
Walker would be recalled and produced as a witness before
that committee ?

Sir J. ELPHINSTONE stated, in explanation, that he
had not intended to cast any reflection upon the comman-
der of the Avon, for he had no doubt that if that officer
had been on board any other ship, ho would have found tho
Narcissus. (Hear.)
The motion for the adjournment of the house was then
negatived.
TIIE ESTIMATES.

In reply to General PEEL, who expressed his intention
to make some observations upon the housG going into Com-
mittee on the Army Estimates, before any vote should be
taken,
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the vote for the number of
men for the army would be taken on Thursday, and the
similar vote for the navy on Monday next.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER under-
stood that it might probably be necessary to take some votes
on account for the naval service on Monday.