The Sun.
London, England, 1861-02-20 00:00:00

rests and prejudices ? He very much doubted whether the
time had not come w] aen Parliament would see an end of
great and comprehensive measures on this subject. Take
the disfranchisement 4 ,f the small boroughs and the redis-
tribution of seats. Did not every one see that these small
boroughs would be it npediments in the way of carrying a
great and comprehensive measure, and that they would so
continuo for many ; years ? What constitutional means
existed of overcomi: eg the objections of the proprietors 11
He asked whether n dorm had not many distinct parts, and
whether they might not with advantage and ease be treated
distinctly—whether,. indeed, the house was not more likely
to arrive at a cool, dispassionate, and safe conclusion by
taking them separately rather than all together. (Hear,
hear.) There was the borough franchise separate from the
county franchise, and both were separate from the mode of
voting, either secretly or openly. Then there was the dis-
franchisement of those boroughs which were thought un-
worthy to retain two representatives, and many other ques-
tions.bearing on reform might bo treated with advantage
by .separatinithem from each other, and by giving each a
distinct consideration. (Hear, hear.) It appeared to him,.
lookin,y, "to the state of parties, that they had gone beyond
the time when great and comprehensive measures were
likely to be carried, and if there was to be a practical reform
in this cou'atry it must be presented, examined, discussed,
and decided ooint by point. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord
the member fGT London had made use of a figure much re-
pea,ted since. The noble lord had said that a great wave
of public favour was,requi red to carry a measure of reform
over the bar of tilie House of Lords. That might be the
case if it was one of those great comprehensive measures—a
first-rate ship of the line, or Qtteen's ship, but a small'
barque might find water enough to float it over the bar and
might afterwards obtain a safe anchorage in the Constitu-
tion. (Hear, and a laugh.) The right hon. gentleman
opposite had been pleased to make himself merry withthose
private and independent members who were so arrogant
as to presume to offer to the house a measure
of this kind, and the term he applied to them was
that of "hucksters." He really wondered that the right
hon.. gentleman, who had himself for all but two years of
his. public life been a "huckster," should have cast that im-
putation on private and indepen dent members ; and when
the right hon. gentleman entered on a Governmental
branch of trade he did not carry it on with so much advan-

tage as to be entitled to assume so high a tone with private
members, for in a very short period his Governmental
business termimtted in bankruptcy. The right bon. gen-
tleman seemed quite at a loss to understavd the motives -
which influenced hint and the member for Bost Surrey to
persevere with measures
.of this nature; but the answer
was so simple that he was ashamed to trouble the house
with it. He earnestly believed in the truth of the prin-
ciples of reform. It wn because he was a Reforwer—be-
cause there were rights *filch ought to be redressed, that he
having special information bearing on the subject, and see-
ing that it was the determination of the Government not to
bring forward any measure of reform, felt it in the light of
a duty to introduce the bill which he now offered to the-
house. The question of reform and of the rights of the
people, and the wrongs of those excluded from the fran-
chise, were the same this year as in last year. (Hear.)
Therefore, if others failed in their duty, or, being differ-
ently circumstanced, thought it no longer their duty to
bring forward measures of this kind, he did not see why
private and independent members should be prevented
frOut doing so. That they were founded on good princi-
ples would not be denied in that house, inasmuch as the
two points embraced in his bill and the bill of the hon.
member for East Surrey were taken from the measure
introduced by the Government last year. (Hear, hear.)
To the objection urged by the noble lord at the head of the
Government and also by the noble lord the member for
London, that the country did not want reform (hear,
hear), he answered that nothing was more certain than
that the deliberate opinion of the people of England was
in favour of reform (" Hear," and some cries of "No "),
and that that opinion would sooner or later find expres •
sion; and carry a memure of reform to a triumphant
issue. (Hear, hear.) Could this be doubted when during
the last nine years reform had been brought forward by
four successive Governments, and-when the extension of
the rights of the people had been recommended by the
Queen front the throne? Could it be doubted, above all,
after the :last general election, which took place on the lone
Of reform or no reform, or, at any rate, on the issue of Lord
Derby's reform or Lord J. Russell's reform ? It was well
known that Lord John Russell sketched out his plan of re-
form, and the very point on which it differed most from the
plan of the right hon. gentleman opposite was in regard to
the borough franchise, which the present bill sought to ex-
tend. He might then, say that the Government of the day
stood on the basis of an extended borough franchise.
(Hear.) It was not consistent, and he did not know that it
was right, in the Gcru.ernment to give up this question ; but
it was their duty, after what had taken place in respect to
the manner in which tiley were put into office, to give
every facility to indepeno,qnt members in bringing forward
point by point those great pt inciples which they had them-
selves been compelled to abatudon. (Hear, hear.) He be-
lieved that there was an amount of dissatisfaction arising
in the country in consequence of the declaration made by
the noble lord the member for London at the opening of the
session. He neither blamed nor praised the course taken by.
the noble lord on that oceasiori, but he had heard from seve-
ral quarters that great dissatisfaction had been caused by it..
He knew that a great many of his constituents were greatly
grieved by the tone then adopted, and he believed that stiff
more dissatisfaction would be created by the tone adopted
that night by the noble lord at the head of the Government.
(Hear, hear.) The assurances which ho received, both in
and out of the house, convinced him that it was the sine
cere and earnest desire of a vast number of honest men to
have the question of Parliamentary reform brought for-
ward in the shape in which he and the hon. member for
East Surrey now ventured to place them before the
house. It was undoubtedly his intention to persevere in
coking the assent of the house to the measure which he
m0.,,-,ed for leave to introduce, because for severed
years ii e, not taking an extreme position in politics or om
this questisn of reform, had been convinced that the exten-
sion of the borough franchise was a measure of justice,
safety, and true statesmanlike wisdom. He believed that
he should be able to prove such an advancement on the
part of the people of this country, especially among those
dwelling in boroughs, in education, intelligence, and poli-
tical knowledge—such an iwprovement in religion, in tem-
perance, providence, and in fact in everything which con-
stituted men fit to exercise the el:ctive franchise—that it
was no longer wise, and he (lid not know that it would be
any longer safe, to de2ay the admissioei of the great clash
which his bill embraced to the full privileges of the Con-
stitution. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member conclnded by
moving for leave to bring in a bill to extend the franchise
in boroughs in,En gland and Wales. .
Mr. HADFIELD seeonded the motion. Half the revenue
of the country was pa,ki in taxation by the classes who
were not represented. that was a state of 'things that,
could not be allowed to continue much longer. With what
hcoiluarinttryy,
wwoiut,manrdempleamybfuelnr
ietsasl s
o.
the noble lord had treated the
subject the house would, no doubt, remember; and the
Cllear.) The industrious
classes of society could no longer be treated with indif-
ference.
Lord PALMERSTON said—Anyone who had just come
Into the house, and who had only heard the observations of
my hon. friend who has proposed this mogon, would really
imagine that I had announced an intention of opposing it.
But so far from that, I distinctly stated I should not op-
pose either the present motion or that of the hon, member
for East Surrey (Mr. L. King). As to the remark).* of my
hon. friend on the tone of the observations I made at an
earlier period of the evening, his criticism—if I may use
the term—is totally misapplied. I am not conscious- of
anything in my tone open to the objections he has made.
(Hear, hear.) I am not conscious of the hilarity and levity
he describes. I certainly did state plainly that the house
last session indicated in the most conclusive manner
its indisposition—(" No, no," and cheers)—to pass the
measure of reform we proposed, which measure combined
in itself both the proposals of my hon. friends plus another
measure that I thought very likely to be proposed by s
other independent member—(hear, hear)—and I atatedfor lat
the decision of the house given by that indisposition—
be
ill
—cwallasint ao
tdfeoclilsoiwoned, sbinyeaeniyt led the
tion at large of displeasure with the course the house pur-
Zathtitatwi.lalthoef tithe!
sued. I stated that my objections to reintroduce the mea-
sure of last year were two—one as to the point of time, the
other in point of substance. I think that a sufficient inter-
val of time has not elapsed to lead us to suppose that the
opinion of the house is much altered ; and, in substance,
the two proposals now made approach so nearly the provi-
sions of the measure the house did not approve, that I do
not think either measure is likely to be more successful
than the bill we introduced. I stated that the Government
had not thought it their duty to bring in this Session the
measure of last year. My hon. friend, in the first' place,
condemned the Government' for not having brought in a
comprehensive measure; but in the further progress of
his reasoning, his 'mind appeared to come to a clearer
conception of the nature of things—(laughter)—for
he then told us it was more particularly the function of
private members to introduce reforms of this sort. (Cheers.)
But I do not think he held out a very brilliant prospect of,
success in the instances he quoted of private members who
laboured for a great number of years before they accom-
plished the ends they had in view. I can only say I do not
think his observations apply to the course the Government
has adopted. I offered ne objection to bringing in this bill;
hut I simply said, we shall not think it our duty to make
way for bills like this and that of the hon. member for East
Surrey by giving up for them days that may be appropri-
ated to the public business. (Hear, hear.)
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
POST-OFFICE SAVINGS BANK.
The second reading of this bill was postponed till Friday.
BANKRUPTCY.
The report of the committee on the Bankruptcy and In-
solvency bill was brought up and agreed to.
The house adjourned at a quarter to 12 o'clock. •

LONDON : Printed and published by MIIRDO YOUNG, at
No. 112, Strand, ranter, at THE SUN Office, No. 112,Strand ,
in the Precinct of the Savoy. in the County of I,licidleseir ,
Viredneadayi February so, 1801.