The Sun.
London, England, 1861-05-11 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

Several petitions were presentHl against the abolition of
the Paper Duty, against cert iin provisions of the Budget,
for are-adjustment of the mode of levying the Income-tax,
from certain vestrymen in Liverpool that their parish
night be exempted from the experso of Roman Catholic
i
alreadychaplains
being appointed, as such was unnecessary, they
being_ freely admitted to the workhouse.
THE RAJAH OF SIKKIAI—INDIA.
Mr. EWAItT
into with the It ' - aim).
of trade from India to Thibt
Mr. VANSITTARTtqokt ?
right hon. gentleman whethe
inquired if any terms had been entered
of Sikkiru to afford increased facilities
that opportunity of asking the
?intended to introduce his
bill on India before Whitsuntide°
Sir C. WOOD said with respect to the first question,
that he had received no official information on the sub
ject, but a communication had been forwarded to the
Government, from which it appeared that
arrangements
had been effected to open. the commerce from Bengal
Thibet. As regarded the second question, he hoped ntog
have
been able to have brought in the India 13i1,1. before the hell-

days, but in consequence of the length of the discussions
on the budget it was impossible to do so.
COMMERCIAL TREATIES WITH TURKEY.
Mr. FRLAND asked the Secretary of State for
Foreign Airs whether thle ratification of a commercial
treaty between England and turkey had been exchanged,
and, if so, when a copy of the treaty would be laid upon
the table of the house; and whether any corres-
pondence had taken place between the Governments
of England ani France relating to the conclusion of a simi-
lar commercial treaty between France and Turkey; and, if
so, whether there would be any objection to lay copies of
that correspondence and of the correspondence between the
English and Turkish Governments on the subject of either
treaty, on the table of the house?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that the treaty between this
country and Turkey had not been completed, and when it
was, the correspondence relating to the subject would be
laid on the table of the house. He replied to the first
part of the second question in the negative.
MR. GILL'S PATENT.

in reply to Mr. S. BEAUMONT,
Lord C. PAGET said that Mr. Gill had submitted his
patent for the improvement of ships of war to the Admiralty,
who, having examined it, considered that it was not prac-
tically applicable to ships of war. Mr. Gill afterwards
addressed him, and at his request he gave him an interview,
but having heard his explanations and considered his
patent he did not think it would be of any use to her
Majesty's navy. The Board of Admiralty did not intend
to test Mr. Gill's plan for accelerating or diminishing the
speed of vessels.
EDINBURGH CASTLE.

Sir J. FERGUSSON asked the Under Secretary for
State for War when it was intended that the portion of Edin-
burgh Castle which was pulled down with a view to im-
provements should be rebuilt ?
Mr. BARING said that the plans for the rebuilding of
that edifice had not yet been decided on, and he could fur.
nish the hon. baronet with no information on the subject a
present.

ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Admiral DUNDAS inquired of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, in the absence of the First Lord of the Trea-
sury, if it was arranged when the house should adjourn for
the Whitsuntide holidays ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he was not in a position to answer that question.

_
ITALY AND AUSTRIA.
Mr. PEACOCKE drew the attention of the house to the
affairs of Italy, and moved for any despatches on this sub-
ject which had been received from our ambassador at
Vienna. He made some general observations condemnatory
of the position which Austria maintained in occupying the
Quadrilateral, and said he was actuated by no hostile spirit
towards that Empire, and did not condemn the foreign
policy of the Government.
Mr. ST. AUBYN advocated the union of Venetia to the
Italian kingdom as desirable for the interests both of
Italilu unity and Austria.-

Mr. B. COCHRANE condemned the foreign policy of
the Government in reference to the affairs of Italy.

Lord J. RUSSELL—I wish to make some observations
upon the speech of the hon. member who has brought for-
ward this subject. (" Speak up I") Ido not think it
would be advisable to produce the despatches to which he
referred. They are despatches not entering accurately, or
with much of remark into the present constitution of the
Austrian empire. Of course there are among them official
papers, but those papers have appeared in the Vienna
Gazette; they have been copied into the newspapers of this
country, and, on the whole, I do not think I should be justi-
fied in producing them to Parliament. Undoubtedly it is a
matter of great interest to this house and the country, but
at the same time it is a matter the primary decision respect-
ing which must rest with the Government of the Emperor
of Austria. The Emperor of Austria has changed the
institutions of his country, and has given his people a con-
stitution, founded on the principles of freedom. He has very
lately declared the entire religious freedom of his Protestant
subjects—a question upon which I had ventured more than
once to remark that the Protestants of the Empire were en-
titled to greater consideration than they then received.
(Hear.) 'With regard to the general constitution which he
has given to the empire, it is, as the hon. gentleman very
fairly says, founded upon the principles of the United
States Senate. There are separate local bodies of repre-
sentatives in Bohemia and various other provinces, and
each of these bodies sends members to the governing body

—the Reichsrath. How this system will answer it is

beyond our power to say. At all events, we cannot but
rejoice that the.principles of representative government are
recognized, and that the representatives of the people are
called together to have submitted to them questions affect-
ing the taxes and expenditure. (Hear.) We cannot but see
in those provisions the germs of free representative govern-
ment. (Hear.) And I hope there is no man so prejudiced
against Austria as not to desire to see the Emperor and his
people proceed together in the path of free representative
institutions. (Cheers.) But this grant of a constitution to
Austria raises other questions which are of a very difficult
nature. It is to be observed with regard to the real consti-
tutions which are created on the continent, that in those
States which are composed of people of different races and
nationalities you do not excite the Government against the
people, but you give greater scope to those popular feelings
of jealousy, and perhaps of dislike which prevail there.

Thus, in r€gard to Poland, since Alexander L established a

constitution in that country, there has been a strong feel-
ing on the part of the Russian subjects of his Majesty
against further concessions and furtherliberty being granted
to Poland; and in the same way we find that the Liberal
press of Vienna is quite against making further concessions
to Hungary. The Emperor of Austria, I believe, has in-
tended to act fairly towards Hungary ; but the people of
Hungary are, as I think, very naturally attached to the

ancient principles of their constitution. I quite agree with
the hon. gentleman that if the constitution of 1843, with a
Foreign Minister, a War Minister, and a Finance Minister
to Hungary, were effectually carried out, it would lead to
the dismemberment of the Austrian Empire. (Hear.) What
one must wish is that the principles of that ancient consti-
tution may be observed, and that the King of Hungary
may be able to reconcile the desires of the people of Hun-
gary for the continuance of their ancient national constitu-
tion with the unity of the Empire at large. (Hear.) It is a
question of the utmost importance, requiring for its solution
the wisdom of statesmen who know those countries, and it
would be very presumptuous therefore for any foreign Go-
vernment to say in what way those great problems should
be settled. (Hear, hear.) All we can do is to show our
r sympathy both for the Sovereign of Austria, who is endea-
vouring to effect those great improvements, and for the

people of Austria and the people of Hungary, and to ex-

press our heartfelt wish that they may be able to overcome
these difficulties, and to give fresh stability to that ancient
Empire of Austria and that ancient kingdom of Hungary,
by whose side we fought, not yesterday, or the day before,
but throughout many of the troubles of old times. (Hear.)
On the subject of Venetia I cannot venture to pronounce a
positive and dogmatic opinion, but I must say that the in-
clination of my mind very much agrees with the opinion ex-
pressed by the hon. member. (Hear, hear.) For a long
time the empire of Austria had attached to it those pro-
vinces which now form the kingdom of Belgium, and the
Austrian statesmen found that a great burden was imposed
upon them by provinces so far removed from the seat of
Government, in which there were fortresses which they
were obliged to defend whenever war took place between

France and her neighbours. Any one looking at the diplo-

matic correspondence of that time will see that Austrian
statesmen were always anxious to get rid of that burden ;
and at last, after the'defeats which they sustained in Italy
in 1796, they gave up the Low Countries altogether for
ever, and obtained in their place the provinces on the
Adriatic which had belonged to the Venetian Republic.
I must say that I do not think that was a well
considered provision. (Hear, hear.) The Venetian Re-
public, which had not been an enemy of Austria even
in that war, was absolutely destroyed, and Austria obtained
what was no less a burden to her than the Belgian pro.
vinces had been. The people of Venetia are not well
affected towards Austria, and the attempts made by her to
conciliate them seem always to have failed. The attempt
now made to obtain representatives from Venetia to be
sent to Vienna have failed also from that national feeling
which prevails in Venetia, and which we are told makes it
unsafe for anybody to go from Venice to Vienna. That
is a most unsafe tenure of Venetia. (Hear, hear.) I
must say that the accusations against Austria are often
very incorrect. This House and the English public have
lately read a very able despatch from Count Cavour on
the subject of the formation of the kingdom of Italy,
and the conduct of that kingdom towards Austria ; and
hon. gentlemen will probably have observed in that de-
spatch an assertion of Count Cavour that for a long time
there has been a state of siege in Venice. The Austrian
Ambassador brought me a despatch the other day from
Count Rechberg, in which he says that a short time after
the treaty of Villafranca the state of siege was raised,
and has never since existed in the province at all. (Hear.)
He denies, also, some other assertions, but, altbough those
assertions may be inexact, and although many of the charges
of tyranny against the Austrian Government are not true,
it is quite true that there are continued attempts in Venice
to show their dislike and disaffection towards Austria, and
that those attempts are punished by the Austrian Govern-
ment. There seems, unfortunately for Austria, such a dis-
affection in Venice towards the Austrian Government that,
in my opinion, Venetia can never form part of the strength
of the Austrian empire, nor, as long as Venetia forms part
of the Austrian empire, can it be said that Austria and Italy,
or even Germany and Italy, can ever be on those terms of
amity which are so desirable for the maintenance of the
balance of power in Europe. (Hear, hear.) How that
problem is to be solved I know not, but he would not be a
true friend of Austria who would tell her that the province
of Venetia formed part of her strength, or that she ought
to waste her military power or impose heavy burdens on her
people for the sake of maintaining them. (Hear.) I speak
of these things not as matters of internal concern, but as
matters which affect the general int.:rests of Europe. I.
trusti thet day may come when this question may be settled
h
general agreement between Austria, Italy,
andthe uof Europe. (Hear.) We have yet to hear
and
o rwiryer by s
a
what the Austrian Chamber of Deputies—what their House
of Commons-1139T think with respect to these questions ;
what they may think as to the heavy taxes which the Aus-
popio 114T0 to pay, how these two will Do Dot die,

tributed, and what amount of army they should maintain
AU these are questions for the representatives to settle with
their Government, and it is for them to .consider in what
way the empire can best be saved. I have already stated
that I do not think it would be desirable to produce the
papers. I will only repeat that, however much I may be
reproached with being an old-fashioned politician of obso-
lete opinions, I do entertain the strongest desire for the
prosperity and the reviving strength of the empire of
Austria. (Cheers.)
The motion was withdrawn.
SYRIA.

Sir J. FERGUSSON rose to call the attention of the
house to certain papers recently presented to Parliament re-
lative to the affairs of Syria; to move an address for a copy
of the final recommendations of the International Commis-
sion for the future Government of the Lebanon ; and asked
her Majesty's Government whether it was their intention to
urge the adoption of the plan of her Majesty's Commission
for the Government of Syria upon the Sublime Porte. He
reminded the house that it was out of the Syrian question
arose the war of 1854, 1855, and 1856, into which they had
been drawn. It was not necessary to go into the details of
the civil war which led to such sad results, but having, be-
fore the commencement of the troubles, asked the house to
suspend its judgment, and having expressed his opinion that
the quarrel was not one of religious differences, but of hos-
tile races, he must say that ii was satisfactory to know that
the noble lord at the head of her Majesty's Government,
who so well represented this country, had come round to
the same opinion. The history of this internecine quarrel
could only be interesting as bearing on the future of Turkey.
Having read extracts from Lord Dufferin's despatches re-
specting the cause of the outbreak, and expressed his appro-
bation of the firmness which had been exhibited by her Ma-
jesty's Government, who foresaw the difficulties likely to
occur, Sir F. Fergusson said they had every reason to con-
gratulate themselves on the universal meed of approval which
their representative had received in Syria. The kindness of
the British officers had also made an impression on the people.
With respect to the case of Cid Bey, he must say that he ex •
petted to have heard of his liberation, but he had received
that evening from a gentleman residing in Paris, a letter
which filled him with great pain. The writer, who had be-
fore given him valuable and reliable information, said that
Cid Bey was dying in prison, with many suspicions of
foul play, and he asked him for God's sake to try and see
some of the Government, that a telegram might be sent
for his removal from prison ; and he concluded by re-

marking that the continued occupation of Syria by the
French troops considerably lessened British authority iu
Syria. No doubt the noble lord at the head of the Foreign-
office was already informedon the same subject, and he
trusted we would not allow Cid Bey to languish or be mur-
dered in prison. (Hear.) Lord Dufferin's opinion of the
quarrel was that, however criminal the conduct and ex-
cesses of the Druses might have been, the original provo-
cation came from the other side. Mr. Brandt, the British
consul at Damascus, said the real cause was the weakness
of the Turkish Government, which rendered them unable
to check the disorders that had taken place. The French
Government had at first agreed with England as to the in-
expediency of foreign occupation, and M. Thouvenel had
expressed himself to that effect, but subsequently it ap-
peared that the Emperor of the French came round to a
different opinion. The noble lord considered that the de •
spatch of troops was unnecessary, but the Moniteur showed
that the Emperor of the French was of a different opinion.
France insisted on having troops sent out, and then the
English consented, but the tardiness of the noble lord gave
the leadership to the French. He thought the noble lord,
having consented to the sending of troops, should have
limited the occupation of the coast by the French troops.
The language used to the troops by the Emperor showed
that his policy did not mean a peaceful occupation of the
province. It was full of reference to the glory of the Napo-
leon dynasty, and inspired ideas of a crusade rather than a
temporary interference for the purposes of humanity. The
Emperor always professed his anxiety to withc'raw his
troops as soon as a regular Government was established,
but still, notwithstanding repeated remonstrances, the
French troops were continued there. M. Thouvenel's de-
spatch however showed, and with excessive candour, that the
object of the French occupation of Syria was to encourage
the Maronites to lean on the French Government rather
than their own. "No object (says M. Thouvenel) have the
French in Syria than this, that the Maronites shall not be
left worse than we found them, and to prove to them that
the French Government will not turn a deaf ear to their
complaints." Now, what had been the result of this occu-
pation ? Had it tranquillised the country ? He thought that
so far from the French occupation of Syria tending to that
result it had quite a contrary effect. He had received, during
the last month, letters from gentlemen in Syria, describing
the anxiety of persons long residing in Beyrout, and ex-
press ve of their fears if a sufficient /ores were not sent from
England to preserve order. It was somewhat curious that
a confidential document, printed for the use of the Foreign
Office, and presented to Parliament in February last should
have been in the hands of the French. The Revue de Deux
Mondes had criticised it, and he wished to give a free trans-
lation of one of the opening sentences of the article :—" We
have beft re our eyes reports sent to English consuls and
ambassadors—reports not intended to be made public—
printed only for the use of Parliament and the Foreign-
office; and, having read them, we theaght it would be use-
ful to submit them to public opinion." Then follows an
article in which the writer says—" The jealousy of the Eng-
lish is such that they would rather have a recurrence of the
Syrian massacres than that Syria should be in the hands of
the French." Then ()marred this passage—" There has
been in this country (Syria) a horizon of blood which will
fill Europe with remorse and shame. Think of 30,1,00 Chris-
tians having been massacred last year, and 30,000 more in
1861, because England does not wish Syria to be saved by
the French." Again and again had Lord Dufferin stated
in his despatches that the Maronites trusted on longer
the Turkish Government, and that they only looked to
the French for protection. Now, what had been pro-
posed for the amelioration of the condition of Syria ? Lord
Dufferin had addressed himself with great ability to this
question. He laid down principles on which he thought
the future Government of Syria should be conducted. He
pointed out, in a despatch, bow the recurrence of future
outbreaks might be ot, viated. "In the first place," he said,
" for several years Syria must be looked upon as our out-
lying Pachalic, from which considerable profit might be
derived by the farming of taxes." This was the most
vexatious part of the system, as no peasant could certainly
know how much taxes he had to pay. The great difficulty
: up by the International Commis-
swas the jealousy existing between the two races. An able
report had aadll boefenwhmgreed, except the French dorawCommis-
sioner, that the governor or governors of those tribes must
not be a native. The French Government no doubt would
throw all the responsibility of the consequences of with-
drawing their troops on this country ; but, if they could
induce Turkey to grant a good government to their people
—no matter of what race, or creed, or sect—they would do
more than had been accomplished b) any government who
preceded them.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought it right to state the views
of Government, after the speech made by the hon. and gal-
lant gentleman, and the position in which the affairs of
Syria now stood. The arrangements made with regard to
that country were not as yet settled ; but he might state
that it was proposed to appoint a governor-general with ex-
tensive powers, and to have under him Christian governors
in the Levant. For his own part, he owned that, in his
opinion, that was the best arrangement that could be made;
but the Government of the Porte had a great objection to
it, and principally on the ground that what was once done
in Egypt might be hereafter repeatedin Syria. That argu-
ment coming from an independent Government could not
be resisted. It was next proposed that a khan should be ap-
pointed to rule over the Maronites, and another over the
Druses, but the objection to that was, that in certain villages
there were Maronites who would have to be included in the
district of the Druses, and Druses who would in the same
manner come under the government of the Maronites. It
was also opp sed by the French commissioner, and so the
matter rema'ned for the present. He himself was of opinion
that no native should be chosen as khan, because he would
bring with him in the discharge of his duties all the
hatred of his tribe and race, and the last report of the
commissioners accorded with that view. The opinion of
the French Government was, however, entirely different,
but matters were still the subject of negotiation. He had
great hopes that by the discussions now going forward the
condition of Syria would be improved, and he need hardly
say that he appreciated all that had been done in times past
by Lord Stratford de Redcliffe, assisted as he was by his
noble friend near him, when holding the office he (Lord J.
Russell) had now the honour to fill. There was also a
difficulty. arising from the Russian Government insisting
on a protectorate, of the Greek subjects of the Porte, and the
French Government of the Roman Catholics, but the course
of her Majesty's Government had been to go on the prin-
ciple that, be they Greeks, Roman Catholics, Mahomme-
, dans, or Druses, they were all entitled to the protection and
freedom which a proper system of rule would ensure them.
Great improvements had taken place he was happy to say
within the last 25 years, and with regard to the evacuation
of Syria by the French troops, they believed that the pro-
mise of the Emperor of the French would be strictly carried
out.

Mr. LAYARD thought the house was much indebted to
his hon. and gallant friend for bringing the subject before
them, and certainly his information appeared to be derived
from very accurate sources. The papers already laid on the
table proved beyond doubt the difficulty of governing Syria,
and that the Christians, led on by their priests, were the
original aggrefsors. There was also no doubt that the
Turkish Government was much to blame, for although they
punished some of the chief offenders, they allowed others to
escape with impunity. At one time they were governed by a
Christian, and at another by a Druse. It was impossible
that such a system could give satisfaction. It was like at
one time sending a Catholic, and at another a Protestant
Lord-Lieutenant to rule over Ireland. Of Lord Dufferin he
could not speak in too high terms. He was a gentleman of the
best intentions, but the scheme which he submitted for go-
verning Syria, it was itni.osiible that the Porte could as-
sent to. Lord Dufferin and the commissioners suggested
another plan, and that was that a Catholic governor
should be selected to govern Syria, and to that France con.
seated, and said, " Let such governor be a Maromte ;" but
of course that could not be assented to. Lord Dufferin him-,
nit had said that tllo wit bloody Nub oAd,strifo sYrift