The Sun.
London, England, 1857-08-04 00:00:00

THE FATAL COLLIERY EXPLOSIOY.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ASHTON, Monday. —The inquest upon the ho lies
of the 31 men killed by the explosion at Messrs.
Kenwo►thy;'s pit was held this morning before Mr.
_Rutter, coroner for the county. The jury assem-
bled at the New Inn, a short distance from the pit,
and after the bo,lies had been viewed, evidence as
to the r-identification was given, and orders were
made by the coroner for their interment. The

coroner then proceeded to the residence of Edward.
Elliott, the engineer at the bottom of the pit, who
was severely Iturnt, and who lay in a dangerous
condition. He was in a dreadful state, but he
made his deposition in a very clear and straight-
for ward manner.
Edward Elliott said—We stopped for dinner,
as usuel, about half-past twelve o'clock on Friday
the day of the explosion. William Nolan, the man
who used to take the tubs up the brow, came to
me at that time, and, according to our usual cus-
tom, we began winding up some tubs. While we
• were doing so, we noticed that the coal hid fallen
out of oue of thew, and we fancied that there wes
something wrong, We then determine 1 that he
should go down the brow before we wound up any
mo:e tubs, in order to see whether there was any-
thing wrong. We arranged that he should keep
going down until be get to the bottom of the br)w,
if there was anything wrong. He we-nt down
about one o'clock ; and I never saw orheardanything
of him afterward-e I went to see if the boilers were
all right, and finding that they were, I went into the
engine-house to wait for i\.Tol ea. to give me the signal
for him to ba drawn up. Before I received any sie
pal the explosion took place. The ft.! st thing I no-
teed was flames ru4aing from the top of she engii;(-
house. I did net perceive anything herons the
flames, but immediately afterwards there was aloud
report, like that of a eannen. There was ne gee
used in the engine-hones, but there was a naptha
lamp at the tep of the engine bmw, and there was
ajar holding a few quarts of naptha in the engine-
house. I can form no sure opinion as to where
the flames came from. Nolan took an open
lamp when be went down the brow, which is 4.6 i
yards Lug, and very steep. As soon as I head
the report of the explosion I dropped down on the
back side of one of the dtuns in order to
escape the flames. I got fast there, and could
nut move myself. if the gas had been lighted
in the engine brow, the flames would have gone
downwards, as the draught of air was downwards. 1
had not perceived any smell of sulphur, and it wes
always considered that there was a first-rate draught
of air. I chink the inAle is generally considered to
make a moderately large quantity of gas. There
would be no gas, however, down the brow where
Nolan was geing. We used to work in the
engine brow with open lamps, but no further.
If the gas had been fired by Nolan, the flames
would have come up the air brow, and not up
the engine brow. When I stopped work for
dinner on Friday, I opened the fire doors ;
there were two fires, and they K ere kept brisk.
We have not had a furnace lately. We gave up
using the furnace about three mouths ago, while we
were making alterition to put in better flues for
ventilation. The air that had passed through themine
was carried through the fires ; but the gas was ex-
tracted from it before it arrived at the fires. There
was no " split" of fresh air from the down cast pit
to the fires. There was nothing more than a
" wheeze," that might escape through the sides of
the door.
This was the whole of the witness's statement,
and after it had been read over to him it was duly
!Signed.

There are still eight or nine more bodies in the
inmine,adliut it is probable that they will be recovered
or two ; and the inquest was accordingly
adjourned. In the meantime a thorough examina-
tion of the mi •
ne wi'l be made by the government
inspector, Air. -Dick.
The followin,, Dickinson..
sufferers :—Gen,.:Ze Thom
names of the unfortunate
a wi d ola
pson, 36 years of age,
married, leaving
above
six children ; Robe i t
Thompson, son of the
William e ; Joseph Brookshaw,
26, married but no family elm Bratnmall, 18 ;
Joseph Green, 12 ; TtiorL.til
...,?,ling, 26, has left a
widow and two children
anam Preece 12
three children •
William Knowlan, 30, widow
Benjamin Greenwood (of Bengall),
two children ; W. Webb, 23, unmartiweiddow "d
°w
than Webb, 13, brother of the above ; W, Cat
at?"-
22, unmarried ; Joseph Schofield, 12 ; Charles'
Mottershead, 11; Samuel Walker, 18.
Benjamin Greenwood (of Nook), 30, widow and
five or six children ; George Gdtert, 17 ; Richard
Barraclough, married, three children ; John Barra-
dough (brother of the above), 27, widow and three
children ; Samuel Hopwood, 20 ; Samuel Saxon,
26, widow and two children ; Johu Tetlow, 21;
John Foster, 38, widow andthrec children ; Philip
Ousey, 12 ; Henry Hollaud, 50, widow and five
children ; Abraham Holland, 18; William Healey,
20
; Henry Braithwaite, 20 • John Underwo',d,
27, widow and three children i Thomas Davis, 22 ; i
John Peat, 19.

The specie receipts yesterday have amounted to
663,0001. Of this total, 434,000/. (ircluding 327,0001.
of silver) 18 from the West Indies, 225,0001. from New
York, and 4,0001. from the Peninsula.

country, Paul L. C 1.-Irier, staid he was the only man in
F arce who ball the good quality of net beli-vtng that he
! ought to be king of the country. It was a feeling in the
HOUSE OF LonDs—(YESTERDAY.) ; French people that trwy wished to bring down a'l to
THE REFORM BILL. their own rank, not of raising others who were bt ltr.v
Lord BROUGHAM rose to move for a return of the
them to their own rank. Ho spike of course not of all
c number of electors in every county and division of a Frenchmen, but that this wass widelythe Fread
French
r feelingHe w ihed
county, city, and borough in the United Kingdom. He
amongst the French nati m.
said that he considered it his duty. from the share he had would imitate us in our constancy and adherence to the
of
in the measure of 1831-32, to state one or two circutn. c
a establisheduseof
order
all
things
; the want of that had been
stances connected with that measure, also to call tho
the
lof all parties were determined to sacrifice their own their revolutions. In this country men
attention of the Government to what had been the results
opi-
of it. It had been announced that it was the intension
1 ni7i narather than do anything to injure the working of
system. The result of this composition of forces was
of the Government to present next session a bill for I th
Parliamentary reform, one having a tendency to
ue effect
1 a diagonal motion such as we witnessed in our political
a change in the present system of representation. affairs. In France the foices were in direct antagonism ;
.
each party carried out its own views as far as it had
trusted bill would receive their most anxious cohn-
deration. There was a great difference in the situation power to do, and sought the destruction of itsopponents,
of the country at present to what it was in 1830, when The inevitable consequence was revolution. To avoid a
,repetition of these horrors as witnessed in 1703, and
said toere was
the last bill was brought in. It was then
Parliamentary
re-
also the abuse of Pat liamentary government which oc-
no feeling in the country in favour of
ththefact
curred in 1846, as well as to avoid the evils of socialism,
form, and he was taunted in that hou 7i
e' the French people had submitted to a strong and able
that in the canvas of the county of York which he had , .
never beard the word reform governmeo , whichhad preserved peace and tranquillity
just gone through he had.
He was obliged to aimit the fact ; but cir- to all. He hoped they would long continue to flourish
mentioned.
u tancesoon changed, and every man in England under such a government. The views he hid propounded
talkedc.nsofnsothing
but reform. That was owing, in some were his own sincere opinions. He had deemed it hismeasure, to the change of Government, and the an- duty as one of the authors of the Reform Bill to protest
nouncement they made of their intention to take up, the against any measure which went to alter the constitution
of the House of Commons, by making it more demo-
question. It might be raid that, on the present occa-
• like announcement would produce the same cratic ; he considered that it was made sufficiently so by
si ,V, a
pretested against any effect. He doubted it, however; for the reasons which the measure of 1832, and be prate.
• d were no longer in operation. Public feel. titer change in that direction. He concluded by
fur-
then
existed
ing was then welted by the long postponement of the for the re.urns above specified.
measure and the refusal of the Government to consider Earl GRANVILLE said that all parties must have
at hearing the opiniors of the noble lord,
it ; and the declaration of the Duke of Wellington been gratified
against it, and the fact that all the large towns—Man-entirely his gHe (Lord Granville) had
which were own.
on
Chester, Sheffield, Birmingham, and Leeds—were entirely not bad any communication with the Government
unreeresented, coupled with the gross abuses at the elec- the subject.
tiona in the small towns and the corruption amorget the The motion was then agreed to.
freemen ; all these causes operated to produce all over THE AUSTRALIAN MAILS.
the country a desire for a large measure of Parliamen- The Earl nt HARD WICKE called the attention of the
tart' reform. He entirely denied that the announcement house to the contract for carrying the Australian mails.
of the Government would produce such a feeling on the The colonists had long suffered great inconvenience from
present occasion. It might be a great advantage to have the way in which the postal service was conducted, but
the country in a calm state for theconsiderstion of the sub- he did not blame the Government for this, he merely
ject ; he admitted there were some defects in the former wished to draw their attention to the matter. Great de-
bill which might be safely and securely remedied, and he rangement had been caused in the service by the war. As
would rather see a measure to supply one or two defects soon as peace was restored the Government had endea-
suggested by and arising out of them, than any great or inured to put the service on a proper footing. He found
general plan of what would be called a sweeping measure that last year the cost of the postal service was 572,3901.
of reform. He entirely denied the proposition that the while this year it was 785,3561. Contracts bad been en-
former bill was a failure. Two classes of persons held tered into by the Government by tender, and, as is usual
that opinion ; one consisted of those who were strong in such cases, they did not bind themselves to accept the
opponents of the bill, and who considered it a revolu- lowest tender. In this case they took the highest tender,
tionary measure, and the other consisted of those who but along with that they took the worst means of per-
considered it did not go far enough, and called it a mock forming the tender, and after they discovered that they
measure of reform. He denied altogether it was either had sought to bolster up the company to whom the ten-
s mock or moderate measure ; it was a very large one, der was given. Two companies had tendered ; one was
and some even, and they supporters of the Goverment, the Peninsular and Oriental, which possessed some of
thought it went rather too far. He entirely ehffered the finest ships in the world, and they offered to perform
from those who contended it was no reform at all, be- the contract with several of their best ships. They also
cause it left so much undone. His answer to this was, had the advantage of having three of these vessels on the
a single date—the 10th of April, 1848. He relied on other side of the Cape—already on the ground, so that
the 10th of April, 1848. If the bill had not become law they were prepared to undertake the contract inimedi•
that clay would not have parsedover them so quietly and atey from both ends. They proposed to undertake it for
peaceably as it had done. Some persons were of opinion 135,0001., to terminate at Melbourne, or 140,000/. to ter-
that the machinery of the Retorm Bill had not turned minate at Sydney. The company was perfectly capable in
out a very perfect manufacture; that that manufacture, every way of performing the duty. A certain company,
namely, the House of Commons, was not so excellent as calling itself the Australian Mail Packet Company,
it might be. That was the opinion of some. He did not offered to perform the duty for 185,0001., and agreed to
share that opinion, and he hoped that the House of Coat- subject itself to higher penalties; but the difference in the
mons, as at present constituted, would be found to de- amount of the contract was more than sufficient to cover
serve the confidence of the country and of their loreseips. any possible penalty. They proposed to place at the ser-
He believed that one of the great defects of the Reform vice of the Cro en certain vessels, equal in tonnage to
Act was that of requiring men to be returned on vacat- those of the Peninsular and Oriental Company; but of the
• their seats on accession to office. He thought that vessels named two were not even built, and noneof them
ing
in any new reform bill this should no longer be required were on the other side of the water. One, the Oneida, was
—at all events, that if the person vacated the seat en reported ready for service on the Ist August, 1856 ; but
appointment to the first office it should not be necessary the Parliamentary return showed that she was not ready
to vacate it on promotion in office. He recollected— for sea till October. On 18th October she was surveyed,
and with much pain—that the law measures which were and went to sea on the 20;h. In the other house it
brought forward in the year 1834 were absolutely sus- had been stated by the First Lord of the Admiralty that
pended altogether, because the then Solicitor-General, he did not know how it was she had gone to sea. Mr.
on his being appointed to the office of Attorney-Genera.l, Wilson afterwards stated that the report of the surveyor
lost his seat for Dudley, and the consequence was had not been made to the Admiralty until after the ship
that every one of those law bills was stopped. had sailed. The fact was she had been reported as
He did not think there would he much difficulty on that totally unfit for sea, but she had sailed, to take her
point, and in connection with that he thought it would chance with the mails, She broke down, some portion
be a great improvement that men in office should have
seats in Parliament of her machinery having given way. At length she
witheut votes. That was the case in found her way under canvas to Meloourne, and another
almost all other countries, arid the only exception to the break-down afterwards occurred. The company had
rule was England. His noble friends L o'd Grey and been obliged to go the Peninsular and Oriental Com-
Lord Auckland bad no doubt whatever when the Reform pany and borrow one of their vessels, the Simla, to
Bill was under discussion that this would be a great ha- enable them to carry out the contract, for which they
proveneent. The necessity of a constantly renewed re- had obtained an amount larger by 45,0001. than the
gletration was another defect of the Reform Act. The other company had demanded. Tula was not all ; this
occupation of a 101. house was required as a proof of the company was not only obliged to borrow ships, but they
respectability of the voter, and as the man who once oc- were reduced to ask Cunard's Company to join them,
copied a 101. house must necessarily be the same man and afterwards the Peninsular and Oriental, but in this
when be came to occupy a 51. house, it was a great error they were not successful. Meantime the colonies were
net to have a man once a voter always a voter. It was suffering from the irregularities of the service. Uhl-
so, substantially, in the counties. The Reform Act gave mately this miserable company hit upon another plan
the judges the power of appointing the revising barris• to relieve themselves from their embarrassments.
tern. He had considerable objection to hiving that power They asked the West India Steam Packet Company to
to the judges. He thought it was a bad thing to give join them in their contract, and also attempted to get
patronage to the judges ; that it was bad for the judges, two years added to the existir g contract of the latter
bad for the profession, and not always good for the ser- company. The contract of the West India Packet Corn-
vice. He understoo I that favouritism rather than judg- pany was made in 1851, at a very exorbitant rate, 270,0001.
meat guided the choice in many instances ;_ bur, be that a year ; and the effect of this arrangement would he,
as it might, the thing should be remedied in any new that for the two contracts a sum of 445,000/. a year would
bi.l. Another defect of the Reform Act was, that it left be paid. It had been recommended that all the existing
too many freemen in existence. That was one of the con- contracts should be revised before renewal ; and he had
cessions made to a friend of his who was now now no no doubt if the West India contract were allowed to
more. These freemen were not the best voters in any re- expire, there would be plenty of parties who would take ,
specs, and in general they were the worst ; more corruP- it for 100,000/. a year. Unless the government tenni-
twin prevaibug amongst them than any other class of nested this contract at the earliest period it would be
voters. He understood that the state of things in Ireland most discreditable to the parties concerned. The
was much worse than in this country. He would there- government bad the power at once to terminate the
fore restrict this claws of voters to the extent of abolishlua" contract, for the company had broken the conditions.
them altogether. He thought it might be very possibl 1 a such a case there ought to be no patching and
to redeem the ledge of a new reform, without grtatsr or propping up of companies by means of agents in a
more r xtensive changes in the present system. Amongst government office. Where a company contracted to per-
the mere respectable class who now bad no rotes were form a duty, and was unable to do so, the government
the skilled ar-isans. He did not mean the common day ought to dismiss it, and go main into the market. He
labourers, but the artisans skilled in crafts, most of whom hoped this statement would put an enclete any further
were men of great merit and intelligence ; many of whom progress in this business.
—as he well knew—were well educated, often endowed The Duke of ARGYLL said the proposal to amalga
with scientific knowledge ; ail of whom, with hardly any mate the companies to which the noble earl alluded bail
excepton, were endowed with ability, talent, and skill- not been referred to the post-office authorittee for their
But apart from their talents, their skill, and their value, authorisation. If such a proposal were made, some new
they were amongst the mo-t independent men in the conditions would at L-ast be required to be inserted in
community. They were mere independent, with few the contract. The main question raised by the noble
exceptions, of their masters than their masters of them, earl was whether the Admiralty and the Treasury were
and he would veto urn to say that in no part of the couh• justified in their original contract for carrying the
try had a cry ever been beard from that class in favour of Australian mail. Now, the ntble earl had passed over a
secret voting. Generally speaking, they treated he bat very important matter, namely, the question of penal-
lot- with centenop-, because in 99 out of 100 cases they ties, and this was a point upon which the post-office
did not want to conceal their votes but to vote openly• authorities had expressed a very strong opinion. They
It was very hard that these men should have no share infinitely preferred that the penalties should be absolute
whatever in the elective franchise. In this greet town and that no excuses whatever should be admitted on the
and most of the large towns throughout the country part of the c nitre:wars. With that view they were pre-
they were for the most part lo.igers—sca.retly one of them pared to give a larger sum for the service, and they paid
occupying a 101 house. If, a ithout too much extending the ~,,„ amount in, the way of insurance, for this
the franchise, any means could be teken to give these system was found to act as a premium, and a very high
men the vote it would on every ground, not merely on one too, upon regularity. In the present case the
the ground of justice to them, but for the benefit of the conwactors were bound to pay a penalty of 100/
system, be a consummation ni‘ et devoutly to he wi,hed. fur every day's delay in finding a vessel fit to go to
Some persons suggested a 101. franchise with one year's, sea after the time aointed. The were
and a 51 franchise
with two years' residence ; but he be- , moreover,
hound pp y
to pay a penalty of 501. if the mail was delayed
1 eyed that whether it was a 101. franchise or a 57. fran 24 hours after the maximum number allowed for each
chise very much the same class ef persons would be re- voyage ; 100/. for the next 24 hours ; 150/e for the thi. el,
turned as now. He thought the franchise should he ,x- and so on until the whole allowance f th 4
tended to the chewy—rectors and curates—medical men, voyage was swallowed up. Now, heor (the nobleparticular duke)
officers in the army and navy. apothecaries, and to lne- might remark that the Peninsular and Oriental Company
rary and scientific men generally. It had been suggested had in point of fact never sent in a proper tender at all ;
that in each county, city, cr borough, containing a cer- because, although these penalties were distinwly stated
tan nuwber of e oweits d men of the description he re- in the conditions, the Peninsular C wnpany declined to
ferred to, a member migil be chosen from this thee the subject the members to any penalties except for avoida-
electors of that c'a,s voting for a riterebsr of the class, tile delays. The noble earl had said that the tender of
without, however, lasing their other franchise as house- the Peninsular was lower than that of the Australian
holders or freeholders. It had been suggested that 70 C impatiy ; but in point of fact the Peninsular only
members might well be chosen by this class, and agreed to carry the mail from Suez, whereas the other
this view had been strongly reoresented to the company included in their tender the carriage of the
noble lord at the head of the Government. He mail from England. The papers relating to this contract
held it to be absolutely necessary to maintain inviolate had been nearly twelve months before) the house, and
the distinction, between county and city or borough re- the noble earl bad never tll.l now said a word on the sub-
presentatives, and should regard, not only with jealousy scot, the noble earl must, therefore, have committed
but with aversion, any such plan as that which so often what was a very serious fault in a seaman, he must have
lately occupied the attention of the other house of Par- kept a bad look-out. (A laugh,) It was hardly fair to
!lament for letting in upon the counties the 10/. voters, say that the company had broken do we, No doubt the
thereby reducing to a nullity the votes of the proprietary Oneida had broken down, but the rest of the con-
body. The di-tinction to which lie referred was an es tract had been performed with considerable success.
eeritial part of the mixed constnution, and he should re- Besides, let their lordships look at the consequences
gard it as a blow all but fatal to that constitution if to the company of the Oneida's misfortune. They
there were no longer to be county members, but borough had forfeited the whole payment due to them for the
members ; for that appeared to him to be an inevitable voyage, namely, 7,784/ The second voyage occupied
conssquence of swamping the counties with 10/. bouse• 1,246 hours, which was 24 hours more than the stipu-
hold votes. No doubt there was great hardship in the fated time. The delay not amounting to an entire day
fact that a man having a 10/, bouse in a borough was there was no penalty. The third voyage was performed in
entitled to a vete, whereas the man having a 10/. house 1,257 hours, which was actually 39 hours under the time,
in the county was not entitled to a vote; but their sys- and the company received a premium of 30/. The
tern was full of such hardships. It was a great hardship fourth and last voyage took ' 1,413 hours, which was
that the 1,340 000 inhabitants of the West Riding .117 hours in excess, and- a fine of 5001. had been levied
should return only two members, whilst the county of upon the company in consequence. Now if the govern-
Rutland, with a population of only 24,000, returned two merit had accepted the tender of the Peninsular Corn-
members. It had been suggested to divide the country pany, they would not have been able to claim these
into electoral districts, as in Prance, and he was at penalties ; for it was perfectly possible that the co npany
one time inclined to adopt that view himself as the might have represented the break-down of the Oneida as
only means of grappling with corruption and bribery. an unavoidable disaster. At ail events there might have
But be was glad to perceive from the proceedings been continual disputes between the company and the
before the election committees now going on that ' government. The noble earl truly said tbat the amount
nothing like general corruption or bribery was found to paid for the conveyance of these mails was very con-
prevail at the late elections, which result was chiefly to siderable ; but it should be borne in mind that half of it
be ascribed to the competence of the parties to be wit- was paid by the colony. Ne doubt, if the company was
nesses under the act of 1851. They often had heard of in the state in which the noble earl described it to be,
the great evil of universal suffrage, and to it he lately the effect of the penalties would rapidly bring the cen-
heard it said that the laying prostrate of the political tract to an end. The contract, however, bad been only
liberties of France was to be ascribed. He was as much in operation for little more than nine months, and at
opposed to universal suffrage if applied to the choice of the present time the noble earl was hardly justified in'
a man, an officer, or a measure, as any man could be. speaking of it in the manner in which it had been cha-
He believed it could lead to nothing but evil, but he racterised by him. (Hear.)
begged to say that the liberties of France did not lie The Earl of DERBY said that if the Government in.
pro-trate before universal suffrage, but before the recol- sieted on the particular form of levying the penalties,
lections of those dreadful scenes in 1793 and 1794, which which they seemed to prefer, the companies taking
no man c ,uld even name without shuddering—when the t these contracts would be certain to cover themselves,
mob, the monster tyrant, ruled France—the mob, that and more than cover themselves against any possible
worst of tyrants, which had all the bad propensities of loss. In the present case the government was paying
tyrants, their cruel nature and vile caprices ; so that 40 000/. a year additional for the sake of these absolute
one hardly knew whether most to dread it when ele- penalties. The noble duke was in error with regard
vated by hope or depressed by fear—when intoxicated to the relative extent of the services the two companies
with success or in the paroxysms of despair. There was offered to perform. If he would refer to the printed
at later triumph of the mob in 1848 and 1849. which tenders he would find that they both proposed to coin-
ugh not so cruel or dirgraceful as those of 1793, t Produced ye mence the voyage at Suez. The noble duke had passed
d scenes to be while deplored, all that followed
over what was the most important point in his noble
those scenes showed
the utter inCapacity—he said it with
regret—of th •friend's question. He had not given any explanation
carrying their excellent friends across the Channel for • hregard to the Oneida'
ssailing with the mail, not-
wit
on parliaments
was the canofthis " y government as we did. What withstanding the Government inspectors unfavourable
se
the difference ie Use elm difference I It was owing first to report. The noble duke might not be himself prepared
whereas the people of England
of the two nations ; for i with an answer, but these questions were not put to the
that which was established atowaere inclined to boll by I Postmaster but to the Government, and the Govern-
ages as the fruit of experience, and
down from former i meat ought to be able to• reply to them. The case was
of their cent-Hence—no doubt the therefore deserving a very simple one. The w ntract bad been clearly
for they were much too slow in reym
ceadrr,ied this too far, I broken, and the Government might at any moment put
people of France, on the contrary, seemedin dteofeocbt?—the I
an end to it. If they did so and went into the market
everything that was established. Whilst
we, eirthtio ! fee a new tender, they would probably be able to make
country, were inc,ined to think that " whatever i: a b-tter and a more economical arrangement.
is right,"the people of France were disposed to think that I The Duke of ARGYLL had omitted to notice another
whatever ie, is wrong. One of the witty writers of that important difference in the two tenders. The Austra-
lian Company offered to perform the sea voyage in 39
. .

days outward and 35 homeward, whereas the Peninsular
and Oriental only offered to do in 45 days outward and
43 homeward.

entitle all the gPn!.lemen (,f the long robe, members of
the hou,e, to he upon the committee.

The following bi 11,4 were severally advanced a stage :
C,mety Court Judges' Salar.es Bill—Read a firs,;
time.

Lord J. RUSSELL perfectly coincided in that view.
The SPEAKER—The correct mode of putting the
quc;sti,m a ill be in tho manner suggee.te by the hon.
and le:amed gentleman the member flr Sheffield. In
that case the question will stand thus—that the coin,
mitten do cmsist of 25 members nominated by the
house, and of all the members of the long robe members
of this house. The names of those hon. and learned
gentlemen will of course be added to the resolution.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HILDYARD remarked that, among the 25
names proposed, there were many members of the long
robe.

_
Land Tax Commissioners' Names Blll—Read a second
time.

Parochial Schoolmasters (Scotland) Bill ; Caledonian
and Crinan Canals Di ; Land and Asse.sed Taxe.,
(Scotland) Bill ; Christchurch (West Hartlepool) Bill—
Conatuitted.

Crown, &c., Suits (Scotland) Bill—Amendments re-
ported.
Glebe Lands (Ireland) Bill ; Boundaries of Land (Ire-
land) Bill—Read a third time aid passed.
FR,A.UDULENT SALES ACT.
The LORD CHANCELLOR presented a petition
from a society at Glasgow, complaining of this act,
which was passed last year. It appeared to him that
the petitioners were under some misapprehension, but
the subject should receive his hest attention.
LUNACY (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from Lin-
lithgow against this bill.
Their lcirdships rose at ten minutes before eight.

The SPEAKER—Twenty-five members will be no-
minated by the house, and all the members of the house
who are also members of the long robe will likewise be
upon it.
Mr. CONNOLLY was at a loss to understand what
question was really before the house.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY remarked that there were
97 gentlemen members of the house who were also mem-
bers of the long robe. The committee would therefore
consist of upwards of 100, and he did not think that it
would do much work in the dog-days.
The SPEAKER put the question in the form he had
blinse'f suggested.
Mr. COX insisted on the propriety of the words " le-
gal.profession" being substituted for "long robe," so
that he, and other attorneys, members of the house,
might help the barristers in their deliberations.
Mr. WARREN thought it would be a great benefit to
have a couple of attorneys upon the committee, as they
might fee the gentlemen of the long r,be. (Laughter.)
Mr. HADFIELD thought that he ought to be on the
committee.
Mr. FITZROY thought the best course for the house
to adopt would beto agree to the resolution as amended
by the Speaker, after which it would be coaipetent for
any gentleman to move that the names of the hon. mem-
ber for Finsbury and the hon. member for Sheffield be
added to the committee.
Sir F. THESIGER said that course could not be
adopted without notice.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
Mr. WARREN gave notice that on the motion for
going into committee on the Divorce, &c., Bill to-mor-
row, be would move that the house go into committee
on that day three months. (Cries of oh 1)
INDIA.

In reply to a question from Mr. DISRAELI,
Lord PALMERSTON said that another letter of
Gen. Napier had been found at the Horse Guards rela-
tive to the Indian al my, and he would lay that portion
of it relating to the native army before the house.
Mr. ROEBUCK ridiculed the idea of any delicacy in
communicating the whole of it to the house, after the
statement of Sir NV. Napier that it was published three
years since.
WEEKLY COMMUNICATION WITH INDIA.
In reply to Mr. R. BAILLIE,
Mr. V. &111 ra said no steps had been taken to esta-
blish a weekly communication with India.
THE OATHS BILL.

Air. HENLEY said that among the names proposed
by the noble lord there were already 15 members of the
long robe. He wished therefore, to know if the resole
tion in its present form would exclude them from the 25
to be nominated by the house, and place the house in the
predicament of having to select 15 other gentlemen to
supply their place.

On the motion of Lord PA.LMERSTON, the orders
for the day were postponed to enable Lord J. Russell .0
move his resolution.
Lord J. RUSSELL then moved the following resolu-
tion—" For a select committee to consider whether the
Act 5 and 6 Will. IV. c. 62, is applicable to oaths ap-
pointed by law to be taken by members of this house at
the table, previously to taking their seats, and in
what manner the said act can be so applied, . and
to report their observations thereupon to the house :
That the committee do consist of the following
twenty-five members :—Viscount Palmerston. Sir Geo.
Grey, Mr. Disraeli, Mr, Walpole, Sir J. Pakiugton,
Lord J. Russeil, Sir J. Graham, Mr. Gladstone, Mr.
Attorney-General, Mr. S elicitor-General, Sir Frederick
Thesiger, Sir F. Belly, Lord Stanley, Mr. Horsman,
Mr. Henley, Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Haling, Mr. Headlam,
Mr. Attorney-General for Ireland, the Lord Advocate,
Mr. Dither), Mr. Napier, Lord R. Grosvenor, Mr.
Whiteside, Mr. Cobbett, and all gentlemen of the long
robe members of this house." His lordship said that
the Ba-on Rothschild had been informed that he
could take tee oath under the above act ; and it was
in consequence that he (Lord J. Russell) had brought
forward this metier). His lordship then referred to
the act of William IV., which was introduced to do away
with the multiplicity of oaths required to be taken in
the excise and customs, including the officersof thb great
departmznte of the state, aed allowing a declaration to
be substituted where nece-sary. The noble lord, after
reviewing the act, said that ete considered the House of
Coalmons was a body included within the provisions of
this act, and that a select committee, with the assistance
of the law officers of the Crown, was the best tribunal
to which they could refer this vexed question.
The words of the oath "On the true faith of a Christian"
were never intended to exclude Jews, but a certain sec-
tion of Roman Catholics, and he saw no reason why
the oath should be litera►ly strained against Jews,
especially as Roman Catholics were by another form of
oath admitted members of that house. Mr. Pease,
a Quaker, was allowed to take his seat on making an
affirmation, after stating to the select committee ap-
pointed in his case that the words " on the true
faith of a Christian" were objectionable to Quakers,
being considered by many of them as swearing.
In the same session that Mr. Pease took his seat, an act
was passer! to prevent a similar occurrence, arid to pre-
vent all future cavil. Upon that act and precedent he
had named he bad founded his application for a select
committee to give their decision of the true interpreta-
tion of the act, after due inquiry and consideration. It
behoved the house, in consequence of this determination
of the House of Lords, not pass an Oaths Bills omitting
the words complained of, to try if they could not find some
other plan bywhich Baron Rothschild could legally take his
seat.

Sir F. THESIGER said he should not divide the
house on the motion, but he expressed his astonishment
that the provisions of the act should have been so long
overlooked, when it was recollected that the noble
lord had for 10 years been struggling to gain the dar-
ling object of hie heart. (Rear, hear.) The hon. and
learned gentleman referred to a silent committee ap-
pointed some years since on the motion of Sir W. P.
Wood, relativeto the terms of theonths required by mem-
bers, and called attention to the prophetic words of Sir
Robert Peal, cautioning the h use as to the probable
result via., the ultimate admission of Jews into Parlia-
ment, which he said deserved especial attention ns they
appeared to be on the eve of a crisis, (loud cr.es of
' " hear, hear," from the Ministerial side of the house)
and he warned the house against doing any act that
might precipitate it. (Hear, bear, from the Opposition.)
The noble lord (Lord John Russell) had some doubts
then, and again in 1851 when Alderman Salomons was
returned for Greenwich, that Jews could not be admitted
into that house ex .ept by an alteration of the
oaths by Act of Parliament. Nothing more
ridiculous or absurd, could enter the mind of man, than
the idea that by the Act of William IV, Baron Rothe-
child could take his seat in that house, and the hon. and
learned gentleman proceeded at great length to point
out the inapplicability of this statute to the members of
that house.
C. 1. FRENCH said that the object of the noble lord,
in which he concurred, was to refer an existine Act of
Parltatneut to a cemmietee, t' see whether, under it, a
declaration could be substituted for the present oath.
He believed that the present dance under di cussion had
been brought under the con.ideration of the Attorney.
General by 4r. Anderton, a gentleman connected with
the city of London, and that he had expressed an opi-
nion that ther . could be no doubt as to the meaning of
the clause. Nobody could entertain any doubt that
Baron Rothschild could take his seat under the Act of
Parliament.
Mr. GARNETT said it appeared to him that the
course which the noble lord was prepared to take.would
bring the house into coullict with the House of Lnr.i,,
)
and put that house into colleiion with the urts of law;
now, however much he loved the theory of civilio and re-
ligusSlibcrty, he preferred the m re glorious libt ley of
the constitution. He, however, should vote for the
motion.
Lord PALMERSTO.N said be was not going to enter
into any argument either as to his noble friend's mode
of interpretation, and which his noble friend was die
posed to put upon the act to which his motion referred,
or enter into an argument with the hon. and learned
gentleman (Sir F. Thcsiger) opposite; but be was simply
going to state that he quite concurred with the motion
of his noble friend, as he thought the matter of sufficient
importance to be referred to a select crenuaittee ; and,
therefore, he would simply acquiesce in his noble friend's
motion, reserving to himself the right to form tiny
opinion as to the correct inrerpretation of the act in
question, after reading the observations of the committee
which might be expressed in the report.
Mr. NEWDEGATE would ask whether the noble
lord at the head of the Government approved of the
mode of selection proposed, which was a most unusual
course to take. The house ought to re,olve in the first
Place that a committee should be appointed, and then
proceed to resolve that it do consist of 25 members ;
but in this instance it was proposed to lump the whole
together, and this, as it appeared to him, was a most
unusual proceeding.
The motion that a committee be appointed was then
agreed to.
Lord J. RUSSELL then moved that the committee
do consist of the following 25 members—
Sir F. THESIGER said the house must Srst deter-
mine that the committee should consist of 25 members,
and that ought to be the first motion of the noble lord.

Mr. LABOUCEIEBE said the best course at present
was to adopt the form of resolution suggested by the
Chair, leaving the point raised by the light hon. gentle-
man to be afterwards settled.
Lord J. RUSSELL bad no objection to the substitu-
tion of the words " legal profession," for the words
" long robe," but he thought it better that the house
should agree to the resolution in its present shape.
Mr. BENTINCK, who was met with loud cries of
"Order, order," and "Spoke, spoke," rose to oppose
the resolution. He maintained that as the present was
a new question he had a right to address the house
upon it.
The SPEAKER ruled that the question was pre-
cisely the same as that before the bowie when the hon.
and ,gallent member last spoke.
Mr. BENTINCK considered it altogether a new
question, and thought the confusion in which the house
had been labouring for the lest 20 minutes ought to con-
vince the noble lord of his mistake in taking the unusual
course he was taking in reference to this matter.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY was also of opinion that
the resolution had been altered.
Colonel KNOX wished the Speaker, as the highest
authority upon all points of order, would explain how
the question at present really stood.
The SPEAKER—Th- re was some difficulty in the
proposition as it originally stood, t . remove which I
suggested the insertion of a word. That suggestion the
noble lord received and moved it.
The resolution was then agreed to without a division.
Sir F. THESIGER said, as it.would now be neces-
sary to strike out the names of the gentlemen of the long
robe which appeared in the notice given by the noble
lord, and as the house could not substitute other names
for them without some hon. gentleman giving notice to
that effect, ho would suggest to the noble lord to post.
pone the nomination of the committee until to-morrow
(this day), and so give the opponents of his scheme an
opportunity of having their views fairly represented
upon the committee.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought the objection of the hon.
and learned gentleman the member for Stamford was alto-
gether owing to the uufortuoate position which he occu-
pied, seeing that the most eminent members of the party
with which he acted were in favour of the emancipation
of the Jews. He wished the committee which he pro-
posed should fairly represent both sides of the house, and
be did not know how he could omit the names of the right
hon. gentlemen the members for Buckinghamshire and
Droitwitch, and of the noble lord the member for King's
Lynn, all of whom were disposed to admit the Jews to a
seat in that house. (Hear.)
On the motion that Lord Palmerston be a member of
the committee,
Mr. NE WDEGATE Fad no opposition to offer to any
of the names proposed, bur, he did not wis'a to see the
exi.etence of more than 200 members of that house
ignored. It was studiously endeavoured to represent to
the public that this was aeon est between the two Houses
of Parliament, and that no member of any importance in
that hou,e was opposed to it. (Hea,r, bear, and ironical
cheers ) That was not the case. There was a strong oppo-
sition to the admission of the Jews, and although seine
of the hon. members upon the front bench were in favour
of it, still those who opposed it were headed by the real
and recognised leaders of the Conservative party. .He
would therefore move as an amendment the adjourn.
merit of the debate.
Mr. SPOONER seconded the amendment.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he would be disinclined to
stand in the way of the pubic business, and would, if
it met the convenience of the noble lord the First Lord
of the Treasury, p ietpone the nomination of the com-
mittee until to-morrow (this day).
Lhr I PALM ERSTON said he considered that that
would be the most coneenient course to follow, and to
take the nomination the first thing to-morrow.
Lord J RUSSELL—At the evening sitting.
Mr. HENLEY said that among the 25 names pro.
posed there would be 13 who were not members of the
long robe, including in that 13 the right bon. gentleman
the Secretary of State for tho Homo Department, and
the right hon. gentleman the inenther for Cambridge
University, who, although they were barristers, yet were
not generally accounted as belonging to the profession.
Of the 13 there were only two were opponents of the ad-
mission of the Jews, and 13 to two was, he thought, a
ratio rather Wrong even for the noble lord.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he thought there were four
opponents of the Oaths Bill upon the committee.
Mr. HENLEY said that as the noble lord had made
an error in counting, he hoped he would now correct it.
Lord J. MANNERS hopef tho noo'e lord would fol-

low the n,ival practice, arid consult with the hon. and
learned member for Stamford as to what names should
ba placad upon the c nnruittf3e.
Aftera few words from Sir If, Thesiger, Mr. Bantinek,
and Sir H. Willoughby, the motion for the adjournment
of the debate to this day was 30-etai to.
BEVERLEY ELECTION,

Mr. A. SNlati appeared at the bar, and hrou4ht up
the report of the committee on the B2verley election.
The committee reported that Mr. Glover had not been
duly elected a member to represent the b.,:rou,,;h of Be.
verLy. The committee also adopted a resolirion to the
following effect :—" That Mr. Glover made and sitvaed
a declaration in the f,rn prescribed by the 1 and 2 Vic.,
c 48, secs. 2 and 6 ; and that it was the unanimous opi-
nion of the committee that the evidence taken before
them should be laid before tha Attorney-General with a
view to further proceedings being taken with reference to
such declaration "

The report was ordered to be laid upon the table.
PROBATES AND LETTERS OF AD MINISTRA.

TION BILL.

The house went into committee on this bill.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that that no doubt was the
usual course ; but it he did so in this case, it would ex-
clude all the members of the long robe, who it was de-
sired, should have a voice in the committee; but he
would defer the question to the Speaker.
The SPEAKER said it appeared to him that this was
not the usual course in nominating a committee who
were to exceed a prescribed number. It might, however,
not be necessary to put the proposition in two distinct
resolutions, but in the one which was now proposed,
that would be a direct mode of putting the resolution.
Lord PALMERSTON said that perhaps the difficulty
might be met by putting the resolution in this way
‘' All the members of the long robe, and the following 25
members." (Hear, hear, and loud laughter.)
' Sir F. THESIGER said there was very considerable
doubt whether the noble lord had permission to make this
motion at all. He did not see why the house should pro-
ceed to select a committee. No resolution bad yet been
carried. (Oh, oh.) Ifhe was rii:ht, they could proceed
regularly, and if wrong, he shottd be corrected by the
highest authority.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the hon. and learned mem-
ber gave a true reason whtn he said the urgency of the
case required this form of resolution. If these objections
were rab,ed, he must ask the house to consent to his mo-
tion. Hedid not think the proposition of his noble friend
would meet the difficulty. Ho would simply move that
the cummittee do cnsist of 25 members.
On the motion being put,
Mr. BENTINCK said he confessed he was at a loss to
understand upon what ground the noble lord opposite
proposed to urge on the house at this sort of haste. Being
at•tbe end of the session might be a good argument, but
as he had been strongly opposed to the admission of
Jews, he could not assent to that reason. The noble
lord proposed to combine all his resolutions in one, and
his answer was, that if be couid not be allowed to do
this be should not have time to do it at all. He would
submit to the Speaker whether the house was compelled
to adopt the course proposed.
The SPEAKER said there was nothing irregular in
the motion made by the noble lord.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that if the question was put
that the committee should consist of 25 members, that
would be an exclusive proposition, and no other names
could be added to it. He would therefore suggest that
the question should be put in such a form as would

On clau4e 1.

Mr. MALINS moved the insertion of the following
clause :—" Whereas it is expedient to provide a tempo-
rary fund for the payment of the compensations under
the provisions of this act, be it enacted that in future the
proctorial fee at present received and taken by the proc-
tors practising in England or Wales, in respect of grants
of probate and administration, shall be levied, raised,
and collected by the Court of Probate and District Re-
gistries, and paid into the account of Toe Testamen-
tary Fee Fund Account ; ' provided, that as the respec•
tive annuities allotted under this act by way of compen-
sation, shall from time to time cease, and after the
commissioners of her Majesty's Treasury have been
repaid all sums of money, with interest thereon,
which they may have advanced in carrying into
effect the provisions of this act, it shall be lawful for the
judge of the court, and he is hereby required from time
to time to reduce as he may deem necessary and proper
the fees so to be levied and paid.
Mr. SALISBURY moved the following amendments:
—" Page 29, line 1, after "emoluments" insert "or
business;" line 19, after "clerks" insert "and also to
all such other persons ;" line 21, after " courts " insert
"or by or under such registrars in the business of their
respective offices."
In reply to Sir H. WILLOUGHBY,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, by the returns
made in 1832, and since, the whole amount of the emolu-
ments of the judges, &c., were—Ju,ig-s, 13,2711., regis-
trars 28,0761., and deputy-registrars 15,851/; and that in•
eluded a number of persona who would be entitled to
compensation under the new hill. The persons to be com-
pensated were, as he had already stated, divided into two
classes, viz., those appointed before the statute of 6 and
and 7 Wilt. IV., acid those appointed since that date.
After making a deduction for the number who would
continue to be einployed under thenew act, he calculated
that the total ainoutit ofcompensation would not exceed
29,0001. With regard to the next portion of the question,
he had to state that all the fees received into the court
would be paid over to the consolidated fund, and prac-
tioally whatever compensation might be a carded would
be levied upon the tax-payer. Lase ly, with regard to the
suggestion of the hon. and learned gentleman that the
stamp distributors should receive compensation, he had
to remind the committee that that was not an office
which in any way entitled the holder to compensation—
the stamp distributor was simply the machinery em-
ployed by Government for providing the public with
stamp, and indeed he (the Attorney General) antici-
pated that persons holding that office would not be losers
by the change in the law.
After some discussion of no interest, the amendment
was withdrawn.
Sir F. KELLY proposed the omission of certain.
words in order to make the clause, as he said, reasonable,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL defended the clause as
it stood.

Sir F. KELLY again impugned the construction of
the clause, but the discussion" entirely turned upon the

wudiug of the proposed enactment. The clause as it
stood wool I disrntit!e from compensation 411 who might
receive Office uudt r the act.

The atnendruent was tflen withdrawn, and tl,e words
"of equ 1 value" were inserted at the suggestion of the
ATTOUNEY-GENERAL.

Mr. HADFIELD called attention to some of the
enormous claim+ for compeni.ation which bad been put
in. In one case a gentleman, who was a registrar at
Chester with an income of 5,0001. a•year, bad received
no less than 112,1401 in 20 years, and yet had the mo-
desty to come forward and emaplain that be was to be
cut down to a retiring NI! ow ance of 6001. a-year. The
hon. gentleman moved that the proviso appended to the
29th clause be omitted.

Mr. SALISBURY defended the Rev. Chancellor
Raikes, the gentleman referred to by the hot, member
for Sheffield, 33 the registrar of the Diocesan Court of
Chester. That gentleman perecnuliy superintended all
the duties belonging to his office to the entire satisfaction
of the public, and it was invidious to single him out for
comment.

Mr. ROEBUCK said that the gentleman in question
enjoyed an office for 20 years bringing in 5,0001. a-year,
and doing absolutely nothing for it. He lived 12 miles
from his place of business, and it was idle and absurd to
say that such a man was entitled to compensation. He
hoped the hon. and learned gentleman the Attorney-
General would resist such a rnonqtreus proposition.
Col. SYKES asked whether the case of Mr. Raikea
cams under the operation, of the act 6 and 7 Wm. IV.
(1836) ?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that Mr. Raik4
case came within tile act 6 and 7 Wm.IV. That act had
remained obsulete for 20 years, and he asked whether it
would be fair, inasmuch as the ecc:e.dastical courts had
not been abolished by it, to take down the act and use it
against parties seeking compensation at the preFent day.
Mr. T. EGERTON said the doctrine laid down by
the Attorney-General was a new one; but it behoved
the house to consider well the principle before they
admitted it.

Mr. ROEBUCK was also startled by the doctrine of
the Attorney-General. An act of Parliament was passed,
which distinctly stated that if this gentleman accepted
the office he should not be entitled to compensation ;
but, said the Attorney-(general, Parliament made a pro-
mise and had not kept it. But this gentleman having
been kept in office—which was a benefit to him—for 20
years, at an income of from 5,0001. to 8,000/. a-year, he
now came to the house and asked for compensation.
(Hear.) There had been no promise made to this gentle-
man, but to the country. He would call upon the House
of Commons to look these matters steadily in the face,
and refuse this compensation.
After some observations from Mr. Newdegate, Mr.
Barrow, and the Chaneellor of the Exchequer,
Mr. ROEBUCK asked whether his hon and learned
friend meant to divide the house on the subject. (Hear )
The committee must remember what they were doing.
They were destroying the effect of an act of Parliament,
and they would bave some future Attorney-General
saying that acts of Parliament like the present were ab-
solute, netwithstandinz the provisions they contained.
Tne ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it was extremely
invidious to select the ca-ie of one overpaid functionary,
and to neglect the casee of the many underpaid func-
tionaries of the same class. He should certainly divide
the committee upon the question.
The committee then divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority -68
Mr. HADFIELD then moved an amendment to the
Iclause, to the effect that, in computing any allowance,
due consideration should he given to any office er situa-
tion retained by the party.
The AT FORNEY-GENERAL said that the compen-
sation was to be given at the di icretion of the Treasury,
and of course they would teke such circumstances
as those referred to in the bon. member's amendment
into consideration. The bill, besides, contained an ex-
press proviso, which would meet the cases referred to.
The amendment: was then negatived without a divi-
sion, and, after some further discussion, the clause was
agreed to.
On the clause being proposed by which the proctors
were to receive compensation,
Mr. MALINS said that the proctors unanimously felt
the privilege reserved to them, by having the exclu.ive
right of province wills, was not worth preserving.
Mr. ROEBUCK obj acted to the principle of compen-
sation being extended to the proctors. They had done
no service for which they had not received an adequate
reward.
Mr. WHITESIDE could not see any analogy be-
tween the establishment of the county courts and the
destruction of the proctors' business.
Mr. KIRK said that be was quits wilfing that the
same compensation granted to tee Irish bar, in conse-
quence of the recent Court of Chancery Act and the In-
cumbered Estates Court Act, should be granted to the

proctors.
Mr. AYRTON said they bad granted compensation
in the vet y face of au Act of Parliament; and now they
proposed taking it away from those for whom that Act
had provided it. This bill was now so changed that he
had altered his mind, and was in favour of granting
compensation.
Lord J. RU3SELL said he was satisfied that if the
committee refused compensation to these proctors, they
would do great irjustice to these men. They were a
very peculiar body of men, limited in London to about
120 in number ; their clutiee were not only perTormed to
their °dents, but also to the public, for they examined
the wills, and pointed out fraudulent appearances, it such
there were, and probate was thereupon refused. They
paid about I,ooof. for their faculty to practise ; and it
was admitted that they had acted with great Velity,
' both to the satisfaction of the public and the judges.
The question had come up from time to time of reform-
ing these courts One commission bad stated that c im-
pensation ought to be given to these proctors; the Lord
Chancellor proposed, instead, to ,give them a monopoly
of the common form practice in London ; the Attorney-
General himself had proposed to compensate them, and
now he had introduced this bill with the clause of the
Lord Obancedor's in it ; but the committee had changed
all that—the business of these men was destroyed, and
the committee could not, in justice to them, pass this
measure without granting them compensation. ([Tear.)
It was the principle of Sir Robert Peel that in making
reforms in the law compensation should be given. That
principle had been act -Id up to, perhaps rather too fully,
and he could not conceive how the Attorney-General
could oppose the proposition to give compensation to
the proctors.
M.. BRISCOE entirely concurred in what had fallen
from the noble lord. He (11r. Briscoe) was a friend of
refmns, but he was also a friend of justice.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would explain the
poltion of a proctor. He derived his business from three
different sources—from the testamentary courts, the
marriage and divorce courts, and the Admiralty courts ;

_ ..
....
in each of which be had a monopoly. It was proposed
to compensate him in respect of ali proctorial business ;
and yet he derived an income from the other two sources,
supposing the t I.tamentary busine=s ti be thrown open.
M. MALIN'S intended to confine the o mpensation
to the test imentary btf-ine9q.

The ATI'ORNEY•GENERAL would argue the

matter upon that basis, then. In the Divorce. Bill there
was a elsuse giving him the exalusive practice, and in
one branch of that practice ho (tha Attorney-General)
anticipated a great increase in thebusiness—(hear, hear)
aod, unless the proctor withdrew his claims to such ex-
c'usive practice there was a difficulty in seeing how he
was to be compensatsd.

Mr. MALINS said the proct-irs would give up their
claim to the exclusive practlcei.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought the commit-
tee ought to be accurately informed as to this, as it was
impossible to argue upon an hypothetical case. It the
proctors were brought down to the level of the solicitors
then they ought to receive compensation, and be placed
in the position contemplated by the Government in their
bill of last year. lie wou'd state the two propositions
of the Government, and leave the committee to decide

between them. If the proctors received compensation
according to the proposal of the hon. and learned gentle-
man, then they would be entitle-cl to no monopoly at all.
It was difficult to proceed upon the contingency of the
Marriage and Divorce Ball as well as the present becom-
ing law ; but in that event he should propose that, at
the expiration of three years from the passing of the pre-
sent bill, an account should be taken of the professiona
receipts of the proctors, and if, upon comparison with the
receipts of the three antecedent years, a loss should be
ascertained, compensation should be given upon that
footing. He was not disposed to withdraw from the pro-
position of the Government in their bill of last year, to
which he oonsitlered the Government pledged, namely;
to give to the praetors an annuity equal to one-half of
the Lases which they should sustain by the changes in
the law, upon an average of the five or three years M.
lowing and preceding the passing of the bill ; the monc-
poly being given up in all cases, and the whole business
thrown open to the profession at large. He hoped the
committee would think that the Government had met
the case of these 'proctors fairly.
Mr. WESTHE AD said there was this objection to the
proposition of the Attorney-General, that if the proctor
died during the three years he would get no compensa-
tion. _ _ _

Mr. ROLT thought it would be more convenient to
place all the district and the London registries on the
same footing, and to allow both solicitors and proctors
to practise in all the courts.
Lord HOTHAM drew a d!stinction between the sur-
rogates in the south of England and those in the pro-
vince of York ; the duties of the former were only
confined to granting marriage licenses, whereas the latter
transacted all the duties of a proctor. He had given
notice of a claue to the following effect ;—" It shall be
lawful for the Commissioners of the Treasury to grant
to every clerical surrogate who, at the time of the pass-
ing of this act, shall be acting under appointment from
the Prerogative and Exchequer Courts of York, sueh
compensation for any loss the said surrogate may sustain
by the passing of this act as the said commission,rs
deem just and proper to be awarded ; the said commis-
sioners having regard in awarding such compensation to
the circumstances of the said cletical surrogates not
being able to follow any other professional employment
in lieu of the said office of surrogate." Some of the
surrogates in York were incumbents in large manufac-
turing town-, and only received a scanty remuneration
for their services, and the emoluments which they ob-
tained as surrogates were necessary to the maintenance
of these incumbencies. The case therefore of the surrc-
gates in the provicce of York was especially deserving
the attention of the committee. Hon. gentlemen might
be aware, in the clause he was about to move, that surro-
gates were not able_ to make up theirs salaries in any
other way when they retired, as they were nit, like the
proctors, lawyers, who had so many opportunities of
doing so.
Col. SYKES considered the London proctors were
entitled to compensation, and would vote for the amend-
ment of the hon. member for Wallingford.
Mr. WIGRAM said that anything done for the aer,

rogatee of York in the way cf remun:',ration ghoul] be
also (x:-ended to the purrog,,tes of Canterbury.
The ATFORNEY-GENERAL conk' see no objec-
tion to the clause proposed by the noble lord (L )rd
ll.,thatn). He would only a,,k the committee at present
t. dettrmine the prineipl-‘, and afterwards have !h,,. form
of the enactment determined.

• • e.
Mr. MALINS txoressed his gratmcation at the can-
did manner in which his clau-e ha,l been m-t by the
Government. As to the offer of the Attorney-General,
he bezzed to say he preferred his own clauses being
adopted, and in return cede all exclusive practice on the
part of the proctors. Heals() tnenti- ned the case of the
articled clerks, some of whom had paid 1 000 zuineas for
their articles. and served seven years as will. Those
gentlemen hoped Parliamant would return their 1,009
guineas to them. (0:1, oh.)
After a few words from% Mr. ATHERTON,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the clauses for
compensation in the bill of list year would be adopted.
It his hon. and learned friend would withdraw his clauses
for the present, they might be brrught up on the report
in an amended fora).

This suggestion was agreed to.
Lord HOTHAM again moved his clause given above.
Mr. WIGRAM moved that the said clause apply to
the surrogates of Canterbury and Darham.
Agreed to.
Mr. WALPOLE moved a clause to enable managing
clerks of proctors and notaries of seven years' standing
is Doctors'•commons, upon proof, to be admitted, with-
in one year after the passing of the act, on payment of
stamp duties, to practise as such.
The clause was negatived.
Mr. WIGRAM moved the following clause, which,
with some amendments, was agreed to :—" All persons
and corporations making any payment bona fide or other-
wise acting bona fide upon any probate or letters of ad-
ministration granted in respect of the estate of any de-
ceased person under the authority of this act, shall be in-
demnified and protected in so doing, notwithstanding any
defect or circumstance whatsoever affecting the validity
of such probate or letters of administration.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved the insertion of the
following clause :—That the judge of her Majesty's Court
of Probate for the time being shall cause to be prepared
in each year ending December 31 a return of all fees and
moneys levied in such year on account of the Testamen-
tary Fee Fund, and of any other fund under the autho-
rity of this act; also, a return of the annual salaries of
the judge of the said Court of Probate, and of the regis-
trars, deputy-registrars, clerks, and all others holding
offices either in London or in the country districts, with
an account of all the incidental expenses relating to the
offices aforesaid, whether such salaries and expenses be
defrayed out of fees or out of any other moneys ; also a
return of all superannuations, pensions, annuties, re-
tiring allowances, and compensations made payable
under this act in each year, stating the gross amount and
the amount in detail of such charges—provided always
that all such returns aforesaid shalt be presented to both
Houses of , Parliament on or before the I,t day of Feb-
ruary in each year if the Parliament is then sitting, and
if Parliament is not sitting, then such returns shall be
presented within ten days of the first meeting of Parlia-
ment after the Ist of February in each year.
Agreed to.

MALINS then proposed a clause to give articled
clerks of proctors all tees, charges, and stamp duties paid
by them on their entering the profession, the same to be
allowed by the Trea,ury by way of compensation.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the clause,
on the ground that it would open the door to a class of
cornp,nsatton which could not be justified.
Mr. MALINS said that there were only 12 or 13 of
those articled clerks, and that as their all was embarked
in the profession they had adopted, it would be gross
i, justice to deprive them of the premiums and fees they
had paid.
The committee then divided—
For the clause 57
Against

Majority
The clause was therefore lost

56

The ATTORNEY•GENERAL proposed to recommit
the bill at 12 o'clock, for the purpose of adding new
clauses, to have the biil reprinted, and then taken into
consideration on Thursday, and read a third time on
Friday.

Mr. AYRTON gave notice that he sboull propose to
add section 19 of the 3rd and 4th Wl.lltani IV.
The preamble was agreed to and the house r.sumed.
Toe General Bjard of Health Bill was read a third
time and passed.

The Illicit Di4tillation (Ireland) Bill was recommitted,
and a new elawte added.

THE INSURANCE COMPANIES BILL.

In answer to Sir H. WILLOUGEIBY, •
Mr. WILSON said it was inteuded to proceed 'with
the bill this session.

Sir J. TRELAWNEY moved that the house do now
adjourn.

lord PALMERSTON said the house had better go
on with the business, and when any oppo,ed bill came
on th'y nolli then determine the course they would.
por•ue.

The motion was then withdrawn.
DUNBAR HARBOUR (CONSOLIDATED FUND).
The house having gone into committee.
Mr. WILSON explained that it was intended to intro-
duce a bill to authorise a loan of 20,0001. for the purpose
of improving this harbour. It was necessary to have an
act to enable the corporation of Dunbar to mortgage
their pr,iparty to the Exchequer Loan Commissioners.
The resolution was agreed to and reported to the
house.

SUPERANNUATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
0,1 the motion that this bill be read a third time,
Mr. AYRTON moved that the debate be adj,iurnsah
Lard NAAS hoped that no further opposition would
be offered to the bill.

Mr. AYRTON said the bill was most objectionable,
and therefore he should persist in dividing the house.
A division was called for but none took place.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY objected to the third reading
of the bill, ou the ground that it woul l not settle the
question. He would ask the noble lord the member
for Cockermouth (Lord Naas) how he intended to deal
with those parties who had already paid the sum of
760,0001. In this summaty mode of dealing with the
question the house placed the Executive in a false posi-
tion with the civil service. Whether he considered the
civil service, the taxpayer, or the position of the govern-
ment, he objected to the third reading.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said be
wP4s not prepared to bring in a bill before he received the
reifurt of the actuaries who had been appointed. Such
was the haste of the noble lord that no time waa,given
to the government to nrepare a bill.
Sir TRELAWNY said the reason he bad opposed.
the bill W4i becaused he wished to protect the national
exchequer. The better plan would have been to app
a committee to inquire into the whole of the civil ser-

vice.
AYRTON said the bill was not founded upon
any principle of justice, and characterised it as a mea-
sure which had been got up by the civil servants can-
vassing membcrs of Parliament, instead of attending to
their regular du ies.
After owe irregular discussion, the house divided—
For
the third reading 9l
Against tt
Majority —6B
The bill was read a third time and passed
The Burial Grounds (Scotland) Act (1855) Amend-
ment Bill was read a second time, and alter garde passed.
through committee.
NEW WRIT.
Mr. HAYTER moved that a new writ be made out
for the election of a burgess for the borough of Great:
Yarmouth, which, after some discussion, was agreed to.
An HON. MENIBER, noticed to the Speaker that,
there were not 40 members present.]
It being found on a count taking place that only 16
members were in the house, it was adjourned at half•
past two.

Just published, price 3s. 61, "Letter to Viscount Pal.
meriton, 8.G., on the Political Importance of the
Euphrates Valley Railway, and the necessity of the
financial support of her Maje.ty's Government." By
W. P. Andrew, F.R G.S., &0., Chairman Euphrates
Valley Railway; with rep:Tts by Major-General Chesney
and Sir J. Macneill, and memorandum, by Sir Justin
Shell, K.C.8., and map. Alto minutes of evidence
before the House of COMMODE' on the establishment of
telegraphic communication with India through Turkish
Arabia. By Sir W. B. O'Shaughnessy, T. K. Lynch,
El., and W. Ainsworth, EA., &c. "It can be hardly
be doubted that ICurachee is destined to be the great
arsenal of the PanjAub and North-Western India; per-
haps the emporium and even the real capital of British
India. Kurrachee, by the Euphrates, is 1,400 miles.
nearer to England than Bombay is by the Red Sea.;'—
Sir Justin Shell, K.C.B. London : W. H. Allen and
Co., 7, Leadehnall—street.

BIRTHS.
OF A SON.

On the Ist inst., at 20, Hanover-square, Viscountess
Hardinge.
On the 3d inst., at 21, Bronapton-squara, the wife of the
Rev. W. C. Dowding.