The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-01 00:00:00

house and of her Majesty's Government without any loss
of time. I bring this subject before the house with the ad-
vantage, not only of stating my facts on what I may call
high authority, but also of stating what that authority is.
(Hear.) Every one conversant with the state of the navy is
aware of the high reputation of Admiral Elliot. (Hear.) It
is only justice to him to say that there are few, if any, more
able officers in her Majesty's service. I have the advantage

of private friendship with him, and I am able to state that
during three weeks he visited all the French ports and

arsenals with the exception of Toulon. He has given me

permission to mention his name in connexion with the
statements which I am about to make to the house,
but with a feeling which is honourable to himself,
as he has lived on terms of friendship with many officers of
the French navy, he is anxious that he should not be under
the suspicion of having acted in any manner as a spy, or of
having done anything unworthy of his high character as a
British officer. (Hear, hear.) I should state that what-
ever information he has obtained was obtained in an open

manner, and he visited the French dockyards with the ad-
vantage of having received the permission of the Minister
of Marine. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Lindsay.) I understand

the motive of that cheer, and it is only due to the French
Government to state, on the part of the French Admiralty,
that there has been nothing like anyintention to conceal its

preparations. But those preparations are of such a nature
that after the communication I received from Admiral

Elliott I could not delay calling the attention of the Go-
vernment to them for a single day. Admiral Elliott returned

yesterday morning to this country, and in a long conversa-
tion m ith him I heard the facts that I am about to submit
to the house. lam glad to see the hon, member for Sun-
derland in his place; in the early pal t of this session, on a
motion made by the hon. and gallant member for Ports-
mouth, the hon. member for Sunderland spoke strongly on
this subject. He stated to the house that he had had a
communication with the French Minister of Marine; and

he gave his impression with regard to the progress France
was making in the completion of her navy ; but what I
particularly wish to call the attention of the house to is a
letter the hon. member told us he had received from M.

Chevalier. That gentleman throughout the late negotia-

tions with the hon. member for Rochdale (Mr. Cobden)
was in frequent communications with him. I believe no one
has taken more pains than M. Chevalier to impress on this
country, and on thqso Englishmen with whom he has had
communication, that it is the desire of the French Govern-
ment to maintain pacific relations with this country, and
that it was making no unusual efforts to increase its naval
force. M. Chevalier wrote thus to the hon. member for
Sunderland :

" You have a full statement of our navy—you have it in
a blue-book—you are told officially by the Government and
privately, in the most friendly and honest manner, by our
Minister, that of iron-cased vessels France has only one fit
for use, that in a short time we are to have a second, but
that a full year must elapse before we can get two more, and
two years before we shall be in possession of a fleet of six
iron-cased vessels ; and it is in the face of such a fact that
Englaxd feels herself so dangerously menaced that she
spends millions without number to get rid of the peril of an
invader."

(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Lindsay.) The hon. gentleman
cheers, but before I sit down I think he will be obliged to
acknowledge one of two things—either that M. Chevalier
was throwing dust in his eyes, though I have no reason for
saying he did so—l know nothing that could justify the
imputation—or that M. Chevalier himself knew nothing of
the subject of which he was speaking. The noble lord, the
Secretary of the Admiralty, also spoke on that evening ;
and, with perfect frankness, he said he had no desire to
disguise or conceal from the house the real state of affairs
with regard to the relative state of the navies of England
and of France. The noble lord stated what at the time was
strictly correct according to all the information he then pos-
sessed. He said that the French Admiralty had at that
time built, or was building, six iron-cased frigates; two were
large vessels of 5 guns ; there were four others, sister shipe
of La Gloire. And, exclusive of the old floating batteries
of the Russian war, the French had built, or were building,
five iron-cased gunboats, and four vessels of a formidable cha-
racter, called floating batteries; altogether they had nine
iron covered gunboats or floating batteries, and six large
iron-cased frigates, of which La Gloire is one. The noble
lord added, what I think was a most important assurance, to
which I beg to call the attention of the noble lord at the
head of the Government. He told us,—
" That if they found much more progress made over the
water or among any other nations in building these ships, it
would be the bounden duty of the Government to come
down to the house and state frankly and fairly what was
going on, with a view, if necessary, to extend the number
of our iron-cased vessels."
This was an important statement on the part of the noble
lord, and the fact that it proceeded from his lips makes me
regret that the First Lord of the Admiralty is not in the
House of Commons. Though I accept any such statement
from the noble lord, and believe it was made in the utmost
good faith, and with the intention of fulfilling it, yet the
noble lord is not a member of the Cabinet, and it is not un-
just or disrespectful to him to say, that we cannot receive
promises on his part as of the same weight and importance
as if they.proceeded from the First Lord of the Admiralty
himself. Since this promise was made, the state of things
contemplated by the noble lord has arisen ; the position of
the French navy with regard to iron-cased frigates is dif-
ferent now from what it was when that promise was made
but the Government has not come down to Parliament and'
made the statement thus promised, or asked for the means
of extending the number of our iron-cased ships. I must,
however, make some exception to this assertion. On
Thursday week there was another discussion on the state
of our navy ; and the Secretary of the Admiralty took that
opportunity of informing the house that the French Go-
vernment had been making very serious efforts to add to the
number of its iron-cased ships since February last. I
think he told us there was reason to believe that since that
month the French Government had laid down no less
than nine more of these iron-covered ships, and so
far as the number is concerned this statement exactly tallies
with the information I have received from Admiral Elliott.
But that information does not exactly tally with other parts
of the statement of the noble lord. When I allude to these
differences the house will bear in mind that what Admiral
Elliot told me yesterday is what he has himself seen in the
last fortnight, while my noble friend could only speak from
the information he had received from others. Admiral
Elliott did not visit Toulon; he says nothing of the ships
there ; but at other ports he saw the following ships in vari-
ous states of preparation ; some were only lately laid down,
others were in a forward state ; the Magenta and the Sol-
ferino are twc large ships, of 52 guns, to be launched in
June ; there are also the Normandie, Flandres, Magnanime,
Gauloise, Valeureuse, Couronne, Surveillante, Revanche,
Heroine, and Quillaine. Here are 12 armour-plated ships
in different states of preparation. Of the two at Toulon
Admiral Elliott does not profess to speak, but of the other
10 every one is a larger ship than La Gloire, and is intended
to be an improvement upon La Gloire, and all excepting
two, which are of iron, are wooden ships covered with
armour. There are thus, including La Gloire, 13 frigates,
besides which there are the two frigates referred to in M.
Chevalier's letter, where it was said " Twelve months must
elapse before we can get two more," and referred to also by
my noble friend last February, and then described by him
as being ships of large size, and carrying 52 guns. Now,
instead of being frigates of large size and carrying 52
guns, they are line-of-battle ships, two-deckers,
carrying two tiers of guns on each side. In ton-
nage they are very little short of our Warrior. The
Warrior is a little more than 6,000 tons ; these two ships
are of 5,100 tons, and instead of being 52-gun ships they are
pierced for 100 guns each. In short, they are two ships
suck as the world has never heard of before, because,
while nearly equal in tonnage to the Warrior they will have
100 guns, out of which 52-26 on each side—are entirely
covered with armour of full thickness, it being intended to
cover all the rest of their guns with armour of a lighter
character. I have now mentioned two line-of-battle ships
of 100 guns each, and 13 of which 12 are heavier than La
Gloire, making 15 armour- plated ships. The two line-of-
battle ships, named the Solferino and the Magenta, which
Mons. Chevalier said would be completed in a year
hence, are both to be launched in the approaching month
of June, on the anniversary of the battles the names of
which they bear. These two powerful ships will, there-
fore, be added immediately to the strength of the French
navy, and the 15 ships which I have enumerated will be in
addition also to the nine of which I have no information be-
yond that furnished by my noble friend—namely, the four
formidable batteries and the five gun-boats. The practical
point we arrive at is that the French are rapidly preparing
15 powerful armour-plated ships to be added to nine of a
different description also covered with armour, giving them
in the whole a force of 24 armour-covered ships, exclusive
of the old batteries which were used during the Russian
war. Now, what is the state of preparation in England ?
I am not aware of more than six ships of this description
in England which are built or being built. We have the
Warrior-and the Black Prince, two ships superior in ton-
nage, and superior, I hope, in speed to any of the French
ships, but very inferior in armament. (Hear.) The War-
rior and Black Prince will not, I believe, carry 50 guns
(Lord C. Paget.—" Forty guns"), while the two great
French line-of-battle ships will carry 100 guns each. We
have also the Defence and Resistance, one of which has
lately been launched. I am afraid that those two ships
must be considered as inferior to any one of the 15
vessels I have mentioned (Lord C. Paget dissented),
though I hope my noble friend is right in expressing an
opposite opinion. Then we have two more ships in the
course of building; these are of intermediate size between
the Defence and the Warrior, and I know of nothing else
except the iron-plated ship of the same siza as the Warrior,
which as we have hearl, the Admiralty intend to build at
C Latham. I have thus laid before the house the compara-
tive state of the two navies in this most important respect
at the present moment. The French have 15 frigates and
line-of battle ships, together with nine powerful ships of a
different description : in England, so far as I know, we
have six, or at the most, seven. Admiral Elliott assures me
that not only are the French iu advance of us to the extent
I haverow stated, but that in every one of the yards which
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