The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-19 00:00:00

The Duke of SOMERSET said that the only object o:

the bill was to put the hospital and its funds under a better
system of management than it enjoyed at present, and that
more of the money should go to the seamen. He found that
the expense for keep for tech man in the Hotel des Invalides
was£3l 165., and in Greenwich £59 65., being nearly double,
But the difference did not lie in the cost of maintenance,
which was nearly the same in both places, but in the ex-
penses coming under the heads discipline and administra-
tion. In the Invalides the expense was £5 sa. per head,
and in Greenwich £2B 18s—(hear, hear)—and it was to re-
form such a state of things that he had brought in thisbill.
It provided that all the appointments of administration
should only be for four years, and that the governor should
be a rear-admiral, the same as in the dockyards. He quite
agreed that the appointments should ba non-political,but he
thought that the patronage would be less valuable than at
present, when the existing Government had the giving of
appointments for life. He thought that the livings should
be given to chaplains in the navy, and he had so disposed of
one ; and he was quite willing to insert a provision prohibit-
ing any of the commissioners from holding seats in Parlia-
ment- In regard to the security of the public money be-
longing to the hospital, he felt anxious on this point, and
therefore he had requested the Accountant-General of the
Navy to prepare a scheme under which the accounts would be
anted,and all moneys would be paid into the Bank of Eng-
l'ua• in respect generally to the purposes of the bill his ob-
jectto provide for the hospital becoming efficient,
which was.t firstthresa not been of late years on account of it having
been badly managed,
lie had alrealy increased the weekly
allowance of the poor Pensioners, but he found that it re-
quired an Act of Parliament- to put the hospital under
some.other management, and he believed the bill was cal-
culated to be of great service to the hospital, but if the
ilad
noble earl (the Earl of
w.eke)o would suggest any
improvements he would be glad t
paten
t o them.
should
had not contemplated that the commissioners
in Parliament ; indeed, he thought it
so,
would be ob-
r
jectionable that they should do
there-
fore he should provide against it. There was' and
feel-
ing in this matter. He had appointed commissioners
snaer
into all matters right and left, and to report faithfully to
owhgaot
they thought would be best for the hospital, and he had
adopted their recommendations. What he thought was most
required was that the persons appointed to office in the hos-
pital should not be appointed for life, because, after being
in office for a few years, they fell into a sort of routine and
became idle, while fresh talon every five years would give
life to the new system of management which would be bene-
ficial to the hospital. With that explanation he hoped their
lordships would consent to the bill being recommitted.
The Earl of DERBY said it was some time since he read
the report of the commissioners in respect to the pensioners,
of Greenwich Hospital, and so far as his recollection went
the alterations recommended did not require an act of Par-
liament ; they could be introduced by the Governor him-
self. Undoubtedly there had been for a long time serious
mismanagement of the affairs of the hospital, which could
not be removed without an act of parliament. With regard
to the last statement of the noble duke, it would be a sin-
gular course topursuo, and contrary to everything in modern
times, to leave the governor in his high and honourable
office and to deprive him of all control over the officers, or
interference in the management of the hospital.
The Duke of SOMERSET said that was recommended
by the commissioners.
The Earl of DERBY—That might be so. But it was con-
trary to practice to make those appointments mere honorary
offices and to divest the head of the department of all con-
trol in its management. The noble duke had not drawn
and distinction between two subjects totally different, viz.,
tthhe hospital and the arrangements connected with it, and
management of the estates which provided funds fur
the e ho
hospital He quite agreed that the management of the
ospit
should be confided to the officers for five years,
subjectw o
a to_ the control of the Admiralty, but that principle
was
wholly inapplicable to the government and management
of the estates. It would not
be desirable to remove the
commissioners of the estates every five years.
The Duke of SOMERSEL explained that the estates had
been managed fora great many years by a receiver, who
had brought .them high
hem up to a state of improvement, and
he'never thought of removin hun from his office; but no
person was infallible, and it might b
should be appointed. The receive: necessary
wouldioofi office
another. t
send in his ac-
counts, and they would be andited by the
uaudit,
that f
The Earl of DERBY—The cap'
twould have the nominal seemedanto be that
the commissionersbut that they would really have nothing to do with the
estates. It appeared to him that the management of the
estates should be kept wholly distinct from-41a control of
the hospital. Then with regard to the livings, the noble

duke said they had been under the control of the Admi-
ralty for a long time, and it was desirable they should so
remain. Now, he (Earl of Derby) thought that the advow-
sons should be sold and the proceeds carried to the credit of
the charity, and go to increase the funds of the charity.
The Earl of HARDWICKE thought he was quite right
in the course which he had taken, though he would not
divide the house upon the proposition. He would remind
the noble duke that by the charters of 1775 and 1809 it was
provided that the management of the hospital should be
under the control of officers who had lost a limb or who had
been disabled in active service, and now the noble duke was
preparing a scheme which was contrary to the intentions of
the fouuders. (Hear, hear.)

The house then went into committee.
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH considered that the
office of Governor of Greenwich Hospital should be con-
ferred on the ground of great public services, but ho ob-
jected to making it an honorary employment, for it was not
honorary to place an old officer in such a situation, giving
him nothing but money and a house furnished, and depriv-
ing him of all power. He proposed to leave out the words
at the end of the 12th clause, " and shall not take any ac-
tive part in the management of the hospital."
The Duke of SOMERSET said that if the governor were
to take any active part it would unhinge the whole manage-
ment, and it was therefore thought advisable to appoint an
officer in wh©m the Admiralty had confidence, and who
could give them an independent opinion, but without con-
ferring on him a power which would clash with that of the
I commissioners. .

-„„
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that- might be
avoided if the Government would adopt the suggestion of
his noble and gallant friend, and give the governor the in-
ternal management of the hospital and that of the estate to
the commissionErs.
The clause was then agreed to without a diviaion.
The remaining clauses were then agreed to, and the bill,
as amended, reported to the house.
EXCISE AND STAAIP DUTIES BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
THE MILITIA.

Viscount HARDINGE moved for a return of the effec-
tive strength and the number present at the training of
militia regiments in the year 18G0, with a similar return for

the present year.
The Earl of RIPON said his noble friend the Secretary
for War, who was then absent, proposed to have prepared
a comparative return, which would be laid before the
house, and would afford the noble viscount all the informa-
tion he required, and his noble friend had much satisfaction
' in feeling that the return would show that the militia had
increased both in efficiency and numbers.
The motion was then withdrawn, And their lordships ad-
journed.