The Sun.
London, England, 1857-02-25 00:00:00

granted to foreigners. A foreigner-under a certificate of na-
turalisation proceeded to the continent, to the kingdom- of
which ho was a subject,setting forth under the authority of
the certificate that he was a British subject. " No," said
the Government, "you are not a British subject in virtue of
that instrument of naturalisation; England can give no
such right as against us. You are the subject of this coun-
try." The gentleman returned to England a id complained
to the Home-office that he was disappointed as to the effect
of the certificate. I dare say your lordships have seen the
answer of Mr. Wad lington in the name of the Secretary
of State for the Home Department. It said, "As against
us, you may avail yourself of the certificate of naturalisa
tion, but as against foreigners, as against your own coun-
try, it confers on you no right whatever." I say, there-
fore, my lords, on general principles, without resorting ta
any particular argument arisingfrom any documents which
have been laid on your lordships' taido,—l say, on general
principles, this being a Chinese ship, owned by a Chinese,
nothing can at all affect the right of the Chinese Govern-
meet to go on board on any occasion to exercise dominion
over it, to take out one or more of the crew, or to do any
act which they might be disposed to do in consequence of
events brought to their knowledge. (Hear, hear.) If I
make myself understood with respect to this proposition
and were to pause here it would be unnecessary to proceed
further; but what is the next step? What is the instrn-
went under which it is contended there was a transfer of
the character of the vessel, a transfer of ownership which
converted this Chinese vessel into an English vessel? It
is an ordinance of the Colonial Government. By that
ordinance a Chinese who has entered into the colony, who
holds land under the Crown, and is the owner of a Chinese
ship or any other vessel, may apply for a register, and
upon giving c)rtain security the registry gives him a right
to use an English flag. A register was granted to a man
admitted to be a Cinese. There is no dispute about
the facts that the owner was a Chinese, and the ves-
sel a Chinese built vessel. Now, by a law of the
Colonial Legislature, a Chinese vessel cannot be con-
verted into an English ship. I will not pretend to say
rights may not be given by this colonial instrument, but
I say you cannot make an English vessel by that means
independently of the general principle I have stated
—(bear, hear, hear)---you cannot make it an English
ship; you cannot give the right to hoist an English flag.
That is so clear, so indisputable, that I am quite sure no
lawyer will controvert it. An act of the Colonial Legisla-
ture can have no effect whatever against an act of the
Imperial Parliament. The act of Parliament to which my
noble friend has referred says in the most precise terms
that nothing but what is there sot down shall be deemed
a British ship. The act is not confined to England ; it is
not confined to these islands : it applies to all our posses.
sions, and it says no vessel can be deemed a British ship,
or have the character of a British ship, unless it is owned
by an Englishman, by a natural-born subject, or by a per-
son whe has obtained letters of naturalisation—[The Earl
of Derby : "And has taken the oath of allegiance "]—and
has taken the oath of allegiance. In the face of this act of
Parliament the ordinance of the Colonial Legislature is
absolutely nothing, and altogether void as far as it relates
to the point in question. You cannot in a law of the
Colonial Legislature convert this vessel into a British ship.
It is said, "True, it may not be a British ship, but she
had a British flag, and some insult has been offered to the
British flag." Why ! Under the act of Parliament no
vessel can by law use the British flag but a British ship,
and any one who attempts to use a British flag, except on
board a British ship, is by the 133 d section subject to a
very grievous penalty. Therefore, both on general prin-
ciples, and on the particular point of this ordinance, the
justification in this case entirely fails. Something was
said about some certificate, some license which was granted.
A register was granted on the 27th of September, 1855, to
expire in a year. The vessel arrived on the 3d of October,
six days after the expiration of the license. Thus, when
we seek the facts of the original ground of discussion
in the case, we find that the license for the vessel had
expired, and she was no longer a British vessel. Any
Chinese authority could go on board and seize crimi-
nals, as the vessel hail ceased to be a British vessel,
even according to the argument on the other side. I
believe the law is to the effect that a renewal of the license
must be made seven days before the expiration of the old
license, but no such thing was done in this case. Some ex-
cuse had been suggested to the effect that the vessel was at
sea, but there really is no foundation for that suggestion,
for during the whole time the vessel was sailing up and
down the river, and never was at sea at all. Thus, suppos-
ing that the lorcha had ever had a license and a British re-
gister it had ceased, and her legal protection as such had
also ceased. Sir J. Bowriog, who is a distinguished huma-
nitarian as well as plenipotentiary—(a laugh)—himself ad-
mits the register is void, and that the vessel was not en-
titled to hoist the English flag. Now, mark what he says—
" The vessel had no protection, but the Chinese do not
know this ; for God's sake do not whisper it to them."
(Hear.) He persevered, too, for he said in effect, "We
know the Chinese have not been guilty of any violation of
treaty, but we will not tell them so ; we will insist upon a
reparation, and a return of the men they have seized in a
particular form." If the men were not returned in the
form, what was to be the remedy? Why, to seize a junk, a
war junk; if that was not sufficient, seize more, until we
compelled them to submit, although we knew theyhad the
right on their side, and we had no justice on ours—(hear)
and although the officerdirecting those measures was the
representative of the Sovereign of Great Britain, whose
honour he was bound to protect, but which he was compro-
mising by plunging into a war. Was there ever conduct
more abominable, more flagrant, in which, I will not say
more fraudulent, but what is equal to fraud in our coun-
try, more false pretence has been put forward by a public
man in the service of the British Government? Then we
are told of an insult offered to our flag. Why, the vessel
was not an English vessel ; she had no right to carry our
flag. If a men hoists a flag without authority to do so it
would tie a monstrous assertion to believe that his own
wrongful act protects him. Sir J. Bowring, in the second
letter, admits it to be quite clear that the Arrow had no
right to hoist the English flag. He abandons that part of his
case, but adds, "as the Chinese donot know it, we will call
it an insult, and insist upon reparation." It is not true
that the Chinese insulted our flag. Thera is not the
slightest foundation for imputing such an intention to the
Chinese. The whole question is one of right. The Chi-
nese governor, from the first, said, "Itis a Chinese ship.
She is in no sense a British vessel ; why do you grant re-
gisters to foreign vessels ? By so doing you will create dis-
cord and dissension between tr." I cannot point out just
now the particular passages to which I refer; but I pledge
myself, Laving read the papers most carefully, that the go-
vernor of Canton from the first raised the question, and
that there never was any intention to insult the English
flag. Now, let us go a little further, and see what is urged
in juslilicat'on of these proceedings. The men taken from
the vessel were to be returner!, and•returned in a particu-
lar manner. They were returned, but not in proper form,
and no apology was made. Just consider what was done.
A warjunk eas seized. That was the first step—was that
sufficient punishment for the transgression ?' No, s aid Sir
J Bowring, let ns go further, and batter down a small
fort. Surely if the case was as it is represented to be on
the other side, Sir J. Bowring might have paused at that
stage, and have said—" I have punished you enough. I
have taken your junks and battered your forts. I will do
no more without instructions from my Government." He
might have thought—" I will not involve my country in
war. What I have done has been for the vindication of
my honour, but I will not take any further steps which
may lead to war without' the authority of my Govern-
ment." But, no ; hedid not think so, and then where was
he to stop? He had no inclination to s!..op ; he had no
wish to do so. Well, my lords, soon after other forts are
seized in the neighbourhood of Canton, then the Dutch
Folly Fort ; then the French Folly, then the Bogne Forts,
then the fleet of junks was destroyed, the palace of the go-
vernor was bombarded, the wall of Canton was broken
down, and the town entered in hostile attitude. Is it p ,s-
-sible for any inln to consider such proceedings, arising upon
such a cause, with any degree of calmn ss ? Is it extraor-
dinary that Sir J. Bowring should think he had the power
of declaring war. I can understand a man in such a posi-
tion having necessarily a power of carrying on defensive ope-
rations, but to carry on offensive operations up .n such a
ground, upon such a pretence, is one of the most extraordi-
nary proceedings to be fount in the history of the world.
The letter of the noble earl (Grey) to which reference 11:s been
made, refusing to al:ow troops to be sent from Ce3lou to
China arid in the strongest terms, gave peremptory orders to
the Governor in no case to undertake or carry on offensive
operations without the direct sanction and authority of the
Government at home Those injunctions must have been
known to Sir J. Bowling, and the noble earl below me (Lord
Malincsbury), having had an opportunity of reading some de-
sliatelies from Sir J. Bowring, rind becoming acquainted with
the tone and temper of those documents, gave him instruc-
tions in the strongest t: rms not to undertake any hostile
measures without authority from the Government at home.
It is quite clear from the papers laid on the table yesterday
that from the first moment at which Sir J. Bowring was :ap-
pointed to the station he now fills his ambition was to pre-
cure what his predecessors had completely failed to effect—
namely, an entry within the walls of Canton. (Hear, hear )
It ,roubl also aArear from some of the letters of the Governor

the treaty Chinese offenders could not be taken by the Chi-
use authorities out of British shii s, but an application must
be made to the British consul, who would cause them to be
apprehended and handed over. In the same way, English
offenders escaping into China were net permitted to be fol-
lowed and seized by the English authorities, but were appre-
,iended by the Chinese authorities and handed over. There
was no doubt that the Chinese authorities boarded the vessel
without first applying to the consul, and the question was,
had they a right to do so ? He assumed that the British flag
was flying ; that was clear from all the evidence. Yeh, in his
first answer on the 10th of October, did not deny it, though
le endeavoured to throw doubts upon it afterwards. He
held, then, if the British Government authorised a vessel to
'.;o to a foreign country, and to carry the. British flag, that as
between Great Britain and that foreign country such ship
was a British ship. (Hear.) That was the law of nations. The
government might, perhaps, have improperly authorised the
use of the British flag, but that would not justify the foreign
government in violating that flag or interfering with the ves-
sel, though it might give a right to demand redress as against
the government. If Yell had followed this course and repre-
sented that the lorcha had no right to carry the British flag,
Ind Sir J. Bo wring had refused to attend to that representation,
he would have laid himself open to censure. That, however,
was not the course the Chinese authorities took, but they
proceeded to decide for themselves as to the right of the vessel
to bear the flag under which she traded. He urged upon
their lordships not to involve themselves in difficulties in re-
gard to international law, the depth and end of which he de-
'led them to foresee. If they admitted the notion that,
having entered into a treaty with a foreign country which
stipulated that, quoad that country, any vessel under our flag
should be treated as a portion of our territory, and then per-
mit that foreign country to enter that ship by force of arms,
consider what difficulties they would open up. He contended
that every step which the British authorities had taken in this
matter was fully justified by the law of nations.
Earl GREY wished to trouble their lordships with a few
words in reference to the despatch alluded to by his noble
friend (the Secretary of State), which he (Earl Grey) had
addressed to the Governor of Hong Kong in the year 1847.
His noble friend expressed surprise that he had, with the con-
mrrence of the Duke of Wellington, sent a despatch prohibit-
ing the employment of troops against the Chinese under any
circumstances, without the previous consent of the home au;
thorities. On this subject be would remind his noble friend
that what his despatch was intended and was understood to
mean had never been doubted. In 1849 Sir George Bonham,
writing to the noble lard (Palmerston), recognised the order
as forbidding military operations being undertaken against
China without orders from the home Government; and in
1853 Mr. Medlicot, writing by order of the Duke of New-
castle to General Jervoise, for his information and guidance,
recognised the order to which he 01.1 Grey) referred. But
his noble friend said he should regard with alarm implicit
obedience to such au order. He (Earl Grey) confessed ho
had heard with alarm the observations of his noble friend
on the subject. Let them remember what was the purport of
the order. It was not to prevent difensive operations, but
merely prohibited offensive operations, and he contended still
that subordinate officers ought not to be permitted in any
case to undertake offensive operations. Nations had no right to
resort to hostilities until every other means were exhausted,
and ono of those means, which must never be neglected, was
a demand for redress by the Government of the country in-
jured to the Government of the country committing the in-
jury. That was a principle recognised as part of the law of
nations. See the danger of the principle for which his noble
friend contended. That which was good in China would be
good elsewhere. Were they prepared to authorise every con-
sul or vice-consul in South America or in any other part of
the world, where he might happen to be of opinion that there
was a case demanding reparation, at once and upon his own
authority to make war? No principle could be more dan-
gerous; and he thought the statement of his noble friend in-
creased the necessity on the part of that house of at once
putting an effectual check upon the application of such a
principle. (Hear, hear.) An unjust war had been com-
menced in China. Her Majesty's Government were not re-
sponsible for the commencement of that war, for it was the
work of the plenipotentiary there, and that contrary to the
orders, so far as the house knew them, of the home Govern.
ment. But her Majesty's advisers had advised her formally
to approve of that war. I cannot but think that they have
given that advice hastily, and that further consideration will
induce them to alter their views. The papers relating to the
question have been laid upon the table ; and if their lordships
took no notice of them, if they failed to record a deliberate
vote of condemnation upon them, according to all the rules
and precedents of Parliament, they would impliedly be bound
as approving them. By adopting the resolution of the noble
lord (Derby) the house would remove from itself this respon-
sibility; while in rejecting it, it would take that responsi.
bility upon itself. And this practical result would follow
from such a vote—the recall of Sir J. Bowring. But this
question ought not to be considered upon mere party ground
—and he for one strongly protested against such a course.
But considering this question as men, as Christians believing
the precepts of their religion, their lordships ought to support
the motion of the noble earl, in favour of which he for one
should give his vote. (Hear, hear.)
The Duke of ARGYLL regretted that the subject had been
discussed more in a technical than a philosophical spirit ; a
course into which the supporters of the resolution under con-
sideration had forced the house. He would remind their lord-
ships, that the ground of our intercourse with China rested
not upon the same grounds as au intercourse with European
nations, but upon grounds of trade only. And it was with re-
gard to a vessel, raising important questions as to this trade,
that the present discussion arose, It was impossible that our
trade with China could be carried on exclusively in British
vessels, and hence the necessity for the treaty and ordinance
to which reference had been so frequently made. The use of
the term British lorcha in the treaty was, it was said, not de-
fined ; but on referring to the treaty it appeared sufficiently
plain that a British lorcha meant a lorcha having British
papers. The ordinance proved that Chinese who had settled
in Hong Kong should be permitted to take out British regis-
ters. The object of this was the benefit of the Chinese set-
tlers, and not to detract from the privileges of China. Now
it had been laid down that a vessel carrying the British flag
was entitled to be considered a British ship ; but to this the
noble earl (Grey) said, supposing a vessel, being a pirate,
hoisted our flag, was she protected The answer to this was
perfectly simple. If a power believed that a pirate hoisted a
false flag, then the power had a right to board the vessel, at
the risk, of course, of the ship turning out a bona fide barque.
And this was the state of things with regard to the Arrow.
The Chinese authorities had a right to board her to satisfy
their suspicions, but when it turned out as it did, that she
was a British vessel, they ought to have made reparation.
[The Earl of Derby —They had no papers.] It was true that she
had no papers on board—(hear)—but they were with the con-
sul, and would have been forthcoming had the Chinese autho-
rities thought fit to make inquiries for them.
The Earl of CARNA RYON moved the adjournment of the
debate. (Cries of " No, no," and " Divide."
After a short conversation,
Earl GRANVILLE assented to the adjournment of the do
bate till Thursday.

Their lerdship;rose at a few minutes before 12 .

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER t )ok the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The folio .ving private bills were road a second time
and ordered to be committed :—Aldershot Railway ;
Black water Bridge and Road ; Bridgwater Markets and
Fairs ; British and Irish Grand Junction Railway ; Char-
ing-cross Bridge ; Dartmouth and Torbay Railway ;
East Kent Railway (Strood to Saint Mary's Cray, &c,) ;
Great Northern and Western of Ireland Railway ; Ips-
wich Water; Islington Parish ; Newport, Abergavenny,
and Hereford Railway ; North Eastern Railway (Lan-
chester Valley Branch) ; Otley and Skipton Road ;
Catliam Lands, &c. ; Stamford and Essendine Railway ;
and 'Thames and Medway Conservancy.
C. lonel FREESTUN preeented a petition from the
importers of tea at Weymouth and Melcombe Regis
against any alteration in the present duty on tea, but
praying that, should it take place, it may be fixed at
ls. 4d. per lb. for the next three years.

CONSTITUTION HILL.
Mr. MACARI'NEY asked the Chief Commissioner
of Works whether there wpuld be any objection to re-
build the wall lately pulled do-An in Grosvenor-place, so
as to correspond ,vith the portion standing next; Consti
tution-hill, and place a railing thereon up to the door-
way into the park ?

. -
Sir B. HALL said :hat he proposed to rebuild the
wad in the sauce style and manner as it was before. The
only objection he bad heard to it was that of a gentle-
man who lived opposite, and wished to have it rebuilt as
suggested id the question. He (Sir B. Ha'l) had no ah-
j-ction to it if the gentleman would pay 3001., the dif-
ference in the cost of construction.
LAND TRANSPORT CORPS.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave notice that on that day
fortnight he should cell the attention of the house to the
cause of grievance contained in the petitions presented
to that house of the Land Transport Corps, and that it
be referred to a Select Cimmittee.
VOTE BY BALLOT.
Mr. H. BERKELEY gave notice that, shortly after
Easter, he should call the attention of the First Lord of
the Treasury to the necessity of protecting electors at
the poll.

• _
of Canton that the conviction was strongly impressed upon
his mind that that was the ultimate object which the British
Plenipotentiary had in view. If oven it had been part of the
original treaty that we should enter and carry on trade
within the wails of the Imperial city, and if the Chinese Go-
vernor had refused to perform that stipulation, kill I contend
it would have been quite unworthy of us to endeavour to ac-
complish that object through the intervention of mere local
squabbles. The shedding of blood, under the circumstances,
by the local authorities appears to me to be a subversion of
every sound principle and wholly indefensible. It may be in
the recollection of some of your lordship's that Sir J. Davis sti-
pulated with Keying, the then commissioner, that within two
years, in peculiar cases, the admission within the walls snould
be allowed. But when Sir Geo. Bonham attempted to make
arrangements with the Governor to carry out that stipula-
tion the answer of the Governor was that such would be the
ungovernable rage of the population on such a proposition
being made to them that it would be utterly impossible to
carry it into effect. Sir G. Bonham considered that was
really a well-founded objection, and that was thereason why
the stipulation was not
bony,
the noh Subsequently,lord nown Sira
G insliBs4te6d,
Bonham being asked in
C.
t
the head of the Government (as we understood) what would
be the disadvantages to commerce if we were excluded from
within the walls of Canton, Sir George replied that lie could
not say what the Government ought to do in the matter, but
he could tell them what they ought not to do, and that was
that they ought not to eugage in any hostile act to accom-
plish the admission. (Hear, hear.) Sir George added that
he did not think it would be an object of great importance to
our commerce to be admitted, but this he knew, that it
would be dangerous in the last degree to make the attempt,
more especially if it were made by force of arms. (Hear.)
But our present plenipotentiary, disregarding all those re-
peated warnings, and bent only upon carrying his object of

LAND TRANSPORT CORPS.
Sir J. FERGUSSON gave notice that he should,
at an early day, call the attention of tho house to the
conditio❑ of the officers of the Land Transport Corps.

gaining admission within tho walls of Canton into execution

has, for no necessary purpose whatever, plunged the country
into war ;and what is the result? Property to the largo

amount of 1,500,000 dollars, belonging. to British subjects,
is now impounded its the city of Canton ; and in addition to
that our factories are burnt to the ground ; and all this is
owing to thcmischievous policy of one of the most mischievous
of men—(A. laugh)—

ma n, proud ma
Drest in a" litAßut bri ebrief authorityn !,
Most ignorant of what lie's most assured,
Ills glassy essence, like an angry ape,
Plays such fmtarkie tricks before high heaven,
As make the angels weep ; who, with our splcer
Would all themselves laugh mortal."

I I sit down, my lords, entirely concurring in the sentiments so
ably expressed by my noble
motion,
(the Earl of Derby) and
cordially supporting his
(Loud cheers.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR, that it was contended
motion
by the supporters of this
ght
to
glithat the Arrow was not an
English ship, and had no ri
privileges, but un-
less the principles of international lanwasshhe had always heard
them laid down, were unfounded and iin
which his noble and learned friend haittnw said the vessel
st
as the question to
directed attention
had no bearing on the point at issue,
was not an English but a Chinese vessel. She might, as was
alleged, have been bailt b
Hy a Chinese, and owned by a Hong,
but Ite was a resident at Hon Kong, and had acquired the
rights of a British subject there, and she was navigated by a
Chinese crew, and commanded by all English master, Under

TIIE SUN. LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRTARY 25,

eluded by suggesting to his hon. friend that it would be
better to withdraw the motion.
After some observations from Mr. L. Krxa, Admiral
BERKELEY, and Mr. WARNER,
Sir J. WALMSLEY replied, in the course of which he re.
plied to the objections that had been urged against his reso-
lution, and said that he would divide the house if he walked
alone into the lobby. (Cheers )
The house then divided, when the numbers were—
For the motion
Against it
Majority against the motion —ll7
CARLISLE CANONRIES.
On the motion of Mr. FRGUSSON, leave was given to in-
troduce a bill to appropriate the 'income of the • first vacant
canonry of the Cathedral of Carlisle to the:augmentation of
certain ecclesiastical incumbencies within the said city.
RAILWAY ACCIDENTS.
Mr. BENTINCK obtained a select committee to inquire
into the causes of accidents on railways, and int ) the possi-
bility of removing any such causes by further legislation.
CIVIL SERVICE EXAMINATIONS (IRELAND).
Mr. DEASY called the attention of the house to the pre-
sent mode of conducting the examinations of candidates into
the civil service, and moved, " That a humble address be
presented to her Majesty, that she will be graciously plemed
to give directions to have such examinations conducted as in
England, by examiners whose character, acquirements, and
experience in examinations render them peculiarly fitted for
the duty."
Mr. NAPIER seconded the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that there
was really no difference between the mode of examination
adopted in Dublin and in the towns of England and Scot-
land. It was most important that there should be uniformity
in all the examinations, and that uniformity was fully obtained
by the existing means. There had been 237 persons who had
passed examinations in Dublin for those departments which
had central offices in London, while there had been but 47
candidates for civil service in departments exclusively con-
nected with Ireland There was thus, it will be seen, a great
necessity for uniformity in the standard of all the examina-
tions. The Government could not, therefore, consent to the
motion of the hon. and learned member, but he was perfectly
willing, on the part of the Government, to promise that if it
should be found assistance was really required by Dr. Bell in
the discharge of his duties, the subject of granting such ad-
ditional assistance should receive careful consideration at the
hands of the Government. Fully concurring in the spirit of
the resolution of the hon. member, he trusted that he would
not press his motion.
After a few words from Mr. HAMILTON, the house di-
vided, when the numbers were—
For the motion 35
Against it
Majority against the motion
THE FRANKLIN EXPEDITION.
Mr. NAPIER then proceeded to call the attention of the
house to the communications with her Majesty's Government
respecting the Franklin expedition, and the urgent nature of
the claim for a further and complete search. The question
was one which deeply affected the interests of humanity and
of science, and involved the honour of Parliament and of the
British Government. The hon. and learned member called
attention to a memorial signed by forty eminent and distin-
guished persons, and presented to the Government in the last
session, urging upon them the necessity of a further search.
Baron Humboldt had recently added the weight of his autho-
rity to the opinions expressed in that memorial. He could
not conceive how a Government which had already made
such noble sacrifices to search for the gallant men who form-
ed the expedition could now decline to take further steps,
since the interesting discoveries by Dr. Rae of some of the
relics and memorials of Captain Franklin's brave crew. He
would not insult the Government by supposing that any con-
siderations of expense would weigh for a moment with them
if they conceived it to be their duty to make any
further search for the long lost Captain Franklin. If the
Government did not themselves fit out an expedition, Lady
Franklin, with the noble courage of a woman, had an-
nounced her intention of herself fitting out an expedition
from her ownprivate resources. What a stain woull it be for
the Gcvernment if such an occurrence were to take place, and
that the noble exertions of a lady should succeed in accom-
plishing that which the Government had declined to do on
the petty ground of expense. It would certainly be deroga-
tory to the high character of the Government if it were left to
the private resources of a lady and the energies of an Ameri-
can officer, to set at rest the question of the position of the
brave men who composed the Arctic expedition under Cap-
tain Franklin. (Hear.) He hoped the Government would
not persevere in their refusal to send a final expedition. The
hon. gentleman concluded by moving for a copy of the corres-
pondence which had taken piace since last session on the sub-
ject of the Franklin expedition.
Admiral WALCOTT could not give his support to the
views of his hon. and learned friend, as he did not think there
was any hope of raising the veil which hung over the fate of
Sir John Franklin and his companions. Let them send no
fresh martyis on a fruitless and unprofitable search. (Hear,
hear.) Let them not bring on themselves the remonstrances
of the wives and children of the brave men whose lives would
have to be risked in a fresh expedition, or renew to them-
selves the painful spectacle of British seamen perishing of cold
and hunger in those desolate regions where two many valuable
lives had been already sacrificed. (Hear, hear.)
Sir C. WOOD was glad to have been preceded by the gallant
officer who had just spoken, because he heartily concurred in
all that had fallen from him, and because he was gratified to
have a confirmation of the opinion ho was about to submit—
that they ought not to expose to any fresh risks valuable
lives in an expedition they felt to be hopeless. The Govern-
ment would not have been insensible to the appeals which
had been made both by Lady Franklin and by scientific bodies
ofofrsaavrienngelwiTeedsrasrochloinfgthaesythhaatdheonpteerit.eaminaeidnetahensoliigik,
hstestnhooepx!
pease would have deterred the Government from sending out
expeditions. He was happy at the same time to bear testimony
to the gallant and generous spirit which had animated their
transatlantic brethren in sending out expeditions for the same
purpose. Let the house consider what had already been done.
Since Sir John Franklin had sailed—twelve years ago--six
expeditions had been sent out. Though he was sure no one
had grudged the money while a hope of saving life remained,
he thought it right that the house should know that by the
country alone, independently of private individuals, not less
than 610,000/. had been spent in the expeditions sent Out. It
was not the subject of expense which deterred the Government
from sending out a fresh expedition. They believed that there
was no hope of finding any survivor of that ill-fated expedition,
and that, therefore, they were not justified in exposing to
such risk as was inseparable from such undertakings, fresh
officers and men, although he had not the slightest doubt
that they could obtain more officers and men than would for-
nish twenty expeditious. He believed that the party of 30
or 40 white men who were seen in 1850 by the Esquimaux
near the Great Fish River. and who had obviously perished
during that year, were the last survivors of Sir J. Franklin's
party. He believed he could say that not a single Arctic
officer with whom he had conversed on the subject bad ever
ventured to state that it was his belief that any survivors
could be found. It had been stated that a future expedition
would run less risk than previous ones, because the whole
coast had been mapped and charted ; but what the hon. and
learned gentleman called a limited area of 5 degs. of latitude
and 4 degs. of longitude was precisely that part of the coast
which was neither mapped nor charted. It was assumed by
those who were anxious for a further search that within that
area the ships had been abandoned, and that therefore an
expedition would succeed in obtaining the records of the
voyage. Now, if the vessels had perished, as was not
improbable, it was very likely that the whole crews bad
perished with them ! and if they had been abandoned, it
was not very likely the party abandoning the. ships would
not have brought away with them what, after the neces-
saries of life, were the most valuable things on board—the
journals, logs, and records of the voyage. He did not
think, therefore, that there was any chance of the objects of
the scientific advocates of the expedition being found on
board the ships. If, on the other hand, those articles were
taken away by the crew in abandoning the ships, he thought
it was equally obvious that the last of the survivors would
perish with the bags and journals about them ; and where,
within an area of 1,200 miles, were they to search for some-
thing which would not be worth the trouble and danger of
the search. He thought the probability of discovering any-
thing, but such relics as pieces of wood or boats' oars, of
which abundance had been already found in various quarters
surrounding the unknown district, very remote indeed. The
chances were that the ships, if abandoned, had been visited
and rifled by the Esquimaux. He did not think, therefore,
that they should be justified in exposing the lives of 150 men
in discovering all that there remained any probability of dis-
covering. There was yet a much stronger reason for his de-
clining t) accept the responsibility of a fresh expedition.
Five vessels had been already abandoned iu the different ex-
peditions, the crews of which had been rescued by other ves-
sels, The probability, therefore, was that if any more ships'
wore sent they would become fixed in the ice, and then fresh
expeditions would have to be organised to rescue their crews.
He had never felt that the risk of life which Artie voyages
involved was justified by :the scientific results which were
attainable by such expeditions. Ho bad regretted at
the time that Sir John Franklin's expedition
had been sent out, and he still entertained the same opinion.
He regretted that' the expectations of so many people who
were interested in the question should be disappointed by the
avowal; but be could only say again that aftermature de-
liberation he could not reconcile himself to the responsibility
of a further search. (Hear, bear.)
After a short discussion the motion was withdrawn,
SAVINGS BANKS,

The house having gone into committee, •
The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to move for
leave to bring in a bill to amend the laws relating to savings
banks, and to provide for the establishment of savings banks
with the security of the Government. Ho did not think it
was necessary to trouble the house with any lengthened state-
monF „a a 1.., -C 4.1.3 Ti well kuvvVll to all
that the law relating to savings banks was at present most
inconvenient and most unsatisfactory to the public. The
management Ins vested in trustees, who appointed a ma.
nager or other officer to conduct the business. The trustees
wore not responsible under the law, and the whole security
the public had was the bond given by the manager or officer
to the trustees. These were altogether insufficient. He might
give an instance in the caso of the Bromley Savings Bank,
where the actuary, or officer, was deficient to tire amount of
1,0001., and yet it was found that he had only been asked for
a bond of 501.. The trustees were not responsible,
and the Government were not responsible under the present
law. By the b ill he proposed, without interfering with the
management of these banks, except for the purposes of in-
spection, to give the depositors Government security for the
whole of their deposits, in all cases where the savings banks
complied with certain specific conditions. Of course one
great object of these conditions was to secure the Govern.
ment against loss; another was to give the depositors secu-
rity for their deposits. It was the duty of the house, as the
guardian of the public purse, to see that the Government did
not contract any responsibility in the case of these savings
banks, without at the same time obtaining a proper control
over the funds and the management. On the other hand, the
provisions of the bill did not impose any conditions which
would tend to unduly fetter the management of these institu-
tions, or deprive them of theirlocal and voluntary character,
under local management. With these few remarks ho begged
leave to introduce the bill.

Mr. GROGAN expressed his satisfaction at finding the right
lion. gentleman had taken up this question, on which deep
interest was felt in Ireland on account of the failures which
lad occurred in Dublin and elsewhere.

After a short conversation, the resolution was agreed to,
and the house resumed.

The Carlisle Canonries and the Scotch Commissioners of
Supply Bills were brought up and read a first time.
The house adjourned at half-past ten o'clock.

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