The Sun.
London, England, 1857-06-30 00:00:00

Tll SUN, L N 0 TUESDAY F.' VIT N NG, JUN 11l 30, 7

great exertions, we find the existence of our I Alan em
pile is indeed imperilled—not bythe action of any foreign
powers, whose rneverneute both as regards place and,
time would require a considerable interval to elapse be-
fore they coeld take effect upon ( or position, but our
Indian empire is now endangered, not by the marsooe-
vres and machinations of our declare] foes, but by in-
ternal enemies, in a form that we could not possibly have
exeected. We hero within the last 43 hours that the
ancient capital of Hindostao is no longer in our posses-
sion. And in whose possession is it? It it in the posses-
sion of our insurrectionary and rebellious troops. Sorely
this is a position of affairs which requires us to demand
from her Majesty's Ministers that they should throw
some light upon it, give us some inf metier) as to its
causes, and, above ell, tell us wt at they propo e to do
at this emergency. ("dear, hear.) Sir, the information
that has reached us within the last 24 hours communi-
cates the most important events that have occurred,
certainly in my public life, and, I should think, in
that of most present. Whatever may be the vari-
ous views and emotions which members of this house or
the country generally may entertain at this intelligence, I
am quite sure there is one predominant sentiment to
which all others, however important, must be subordi-
nated, and that is a determination to support the Sove-
reign and the Government in all thosenaeasures which so
grave and critical an emergency may require. (Cheers.)
I am quite sure that the spirit of this country is so high,
its resources are so great, that there is nothing the
people are not prepared to endure, no expenditure which
they are not prepared to incur, and no effort which they
are not prepared to make in order to maintain that
empire wb ch it is the boast of this country so long to
have possessed, and which is one of the greatest sources
of our wealth, our power, and our authority. (Hear,
hear.) But, if I have not imperfectly expressed the
general feeling of the house, I hope it is not unrea-
sonable is me to inquire of her Majesty's Minister-,
whether they are prepared to respond to those senti-
ments in a manner congenial—whether they are prepan d
in a manner adequate to the occasion to carry these
feelings into action. I think, sir, we should not be doing
our duty if we lest a moment before making this inquiry
of the Government. I should be glad therefore to hear
to-night that, whether as regards their power or their
promptitude, those measures will be taken which are
calculated to vindicate the honour and authority of this
country, and to maintain our interests in India. I think,
sir, that is the first and paramount inquiry which under
these circumstances we are bound to make of her Ma-
jesty's Government ; and I think it is one on which we
have a right to expect a frank communication. But I
should not be performing what I deem my duty as a
member of this house if I paused here and rested satisfied
with such an inquiry alone. I think we have a right to
expect from the Government that they should tell us to-
night what in their opinion is the cause of these great
disasters. This calamity has not been of a sudden nature;
there have been, and for no inconsiderable period, dark
rumours from India which have made men anxious and
thoughtful. There has been an occurrence of many per-
plexing incidents in that country which, no doubt, can-
' not have been lost upon the attention and consideration
of men charged wi h the responsible duty of adminis-
tering the affairs of a great empire. I wont, therefore to
know net only what in the opinion of the Government
has been the main cause of these calamitous events, but
whether they were forewarned. I wi.hto know whether
in their opinion the cause is pelitiesl or religious, whe-
ther it has originated in the maladministration of our
affairs or in some burst of fanaticism which ought per-
haps to have been foreseen even if it could not havebeen
prevented. I wish to know what has been the nature of
the communications received by the Government from the
highest authorities in India, milli ary and civil, upon this
subject. I wish to know whether it bo true or uetruethat
months ago, the highest military authority in India
warned her Majesty's Ministers of the unsatisfectory
state of our army there. I wish to know whether there
have been placed before the ministry statements and
complaints that our army in India is under officered.
I wish to know whether it has been represented to
her Majesty's Government that the habit of employ-
ing our regimental officers in civil and diplomatic
services, without substituting men of equal experience
and rank in their places, has ex-2rcised an injurious in-
fluence upon the discipline and the spirit of the army. I
wish to know whether the civil and the military autho-
rities of India have been in accord as to the information
they have given and the representations they have made
—whether the highest civil authority in India is not
agreed with the highest military authority there in the
policy which he recommended and the views which he
wished to enforce. I would ask even her Majesty's
Ministers whether the Governor-General of India at this
moreeut has resigned the high office which he held.
These are subjects which I think, under the circum-
stances, her Majesty's Ministers should not shrink from
frankly meeting. (Hear.) I have refrained from entering
into auy controversial question. [f it be necessary that
the Governinent of India should be brouebt under the
consideration of this house, no doubt a fitting opportu-
nity will be offered for doing so. I have confined my-
self to asking questions which I believe anxiously occupy
the public attention at this moment, which appear to me
to be proper and fair inquiries to address to this Govern-
ment, and to vehicle I trust I shall receive a frank and full
reply. I would presume before I sit down, sir, to make
only one observation on the state of India. No one can far
a moment shut his eyes to the extreme peril to which at
this moment our authority is subject in that country ;
but I cannot say, little as my confidence has ever been
in the Government of India, that I take those despairing
or desperate views with respect to our position in that
country which in moments of danger and calamity are too
often prevalent. I would express my opinion—an or-
nion which I have before expressed in this house—that
the tenure by which we hold India is not a frail tenure ;
but when we consider that that great country is inha-
bited by 25 nations different in race, diff rent in religion,
and different in language, I think it is not easy, perhaps
it is not possible, for such heterogeneous elements to fuse
into perfect combination. Eierytning,, however, is pos-
sible, every disaster is practicable, it there be an inefii•
dent or negligent Government. It is to prevent such
evls that I thick the House of Commons is performing
its highest duty if it takes the earliest opportunity after
the intelligence has arrived—intelligence which has pro-
duced moat alarm in the capital of her Majesty's cm
pies—of inviting her Majesty's Ministers frankly to
express to Parliament what, in their opinion,
is the cause of the greet calamity that has
concurred, ;led, above all, what are the means which
they intend t) take—and at once to take—iu crder to
encounter the peril before us, and to prevent the evi
consequences which may be apprehended.
Mr. V. SMITH—I rise, Sir, readily to respond, as far
as the occasion will permit, to the call of the right hoc.
gentleman, and certainly no one can feel the least sur-
prise, considering the grave intelligence which has come
from India, that a gentleman occupying so prominent a
position in public affairs as the right hoc. gentleman
should make some inquiries respecting the state of that
country. In what has fallen from the right hon. gentleman
I have little to gainsay or contradict, with the rx;eptien,
perhaps, of the observation, that 'the Russian war was
conducted entirely for the security of our Indian empire.
Sir, the Russian war was not conducted entirely for the
security of our Indian empire. If it had been we should
still be waging it ; because I believe that if any persons
were sorry for the conclusion of that war, they were
the residents of India and the Indian Government.
They woul I have wished that Power to have
been infinitely more thwarted than it was, and to have
been beaten infinitely further from the approaches to
the Indian empire. The right hon. gentleman asked the
Government what advices they had received from India,
and what preparatio as they were about to make to put
an end to the evils occurring there; and the right hon.
gentleman added, in a manner befitting the occasion,
and which did honour to himself, that the House of
Commens would be prepared to place at the disposal of
her Majesty auy means whatever that might be required
to bring the war to an end. (Cheers.) Her Majesty's
Government have been ful:y alive to that, and, feeling
confidence in the House of Commons, they have imme-
diately decided upon sending out reinforcements of Euro-
pean troops to India— (cheers)—but perhaps it would be
satisfactory that I should state with the utmost frank-
ness and with something of detail what those reinforce-
ments are. In the middle of next month I hope—the tran-
sports being provided—that there will sail from this coun-
try nearly 10,000 men. Those forces were partly in pre-
paration before. 7,690 of them consist of reliefs and recruits
to the Queen's army, and the complement of the East
India Company's recruits brings up the whole number to
9,940. But that is not all. The house is probably aware
that under the Act of Parliament the Government has
no right to provide more than a certain number of
Queen's troops for India without the application of the
Court of Directors. Trio Court of Directors immediately
upon receipt of this intelligence determined to make such
application ; and I need scarcely say that if they had
not done so the Government would have called
upon Parliament to give them fresh power for
the purpose. The Court of Directors, however,
willingly came forward, and they have applied for 4,000
fresh men, ao that I hope that in the course of a very
short time 14,000 European troops will be on their way
from these shores to India. I hope that the heu-e will
not be carried away by any notion that we exaggerate
the danger because we have determined upon sending
out these troops. It is a measure of security alone with
respect to the danger to be apprehended. I. cannot agree
with the right hen. gentleman that our Indian empire is
imperilled by the present disaster. I say that our Indian
empire is not imperilled, and I hope that in a short time
the disaster, dismal as it undoubtedly is, will be effec-
tually suppressed by the force already in that country.
(Hear.) I need not detail to the house the transactions
which have taken place, because every gentleman has
read in the journals of the day a pretty faithful narra-
tive of them ; but I might say that I am proud of the
manner in which the Indian service have acted. I think
that no better examplecould be found in civil life than
that which was set by Mr. Celvin and the two Law-
reacts in Oude and the Punjab, and the Governor-Gene-
ral has expressed his delight and satisfaction at having
to act with men of such sound and vigorous judgment.
(Cheers.) Everything that can be done is being done in
India, and troops have been already 'marched up to sur-
round Delhi. Luckily the outrage has taken place there,
because it is notorious that Delhi may be easily sur-
rounded, so that if we could not reduce the place by
force we could by famine. But I havens doubt that it
will be reduced by force immediately that a man of the
well-known vigour of action of my gallant friend Gen.
Anson appears before the walls en Delhi ; and, at the
date of the mail leaving, we had advices that General
Anson would. shortly be in ample force bee re the town,
with infantry, cteva'ry, and artillery. Unfortunately, the
mail left on the 28th ult., and I cannot, therefore, ap.
prise the• house that the fort of Delhi has been razed to
the ground ; but I hope that ample rettibutimn has by
this time been inflicted on the mutineers. The right hon.

regard to the steps which have been taken in India, the
noble viscount the Governor-General hat thought it rigW.,
to take every precaution in his power, and to adept
every means to strengthen he roops available for i•er-
vice. The noble earl will be glad to hear that since the
conclusion of the Persian war, which, however, he cal!s
not the conclusioe of a war, but only a treaty, the whole
of the European troops have left Ba,hire, and three regi-
ments, having reached Bombay, proceeded to Calcutta,
a here they arrived in an incredibly short period, and
from that place can be most expeditiously moved where
it may be deemed expedient. With regard to the second
question, I think that the noble earl looks upon this
country as being placed in a much worse position than
she is. It is manifest that it would ill become me atpre-
sent to enter into any detailed statement of the mea-
sures which her Majesty's Government may think it ne-
cessary to adopt in order to strengthen the means at their
disposal, but they will take all those precautions waich
tbey may think necessary. I agree wi h the noble earl
that we should consider the subject in no spirit of exag-
gerated alarm, but I think that if, because we happen to
be at war with a portionof the Chinese Empire, and that
there is an insurrection in one part of India, we were to
take upon us to say that our alarm is such that we think
it necessary to prepare this country in the same way as
we should do if we were ensaged in a struggle which
might end in dire calamity and disaster, we should dis-
grace ourselves in the eyes of the world. The noble earl
line alluded to my private friendship tcwards Lord Can-
ning. I will not allude further to that subject than to
say that I have this day received a private letter from
Lord Canning, in which he gees over all the circumstances
of the case with the care and gravity becoming the ea
ture of the subject, and the tone of that letter is such as
to give the Government the greatest confidence. Not-
withstanding the difficulties he writes in very good heart
and adds—and in that I am sure the noble earl will con-
cur—that he cannot be sufficiently grateful for having at
this moment had at critical places three men so admira-
bly fitted to deal with these circumstances as Sir H. and
Sir J. Lawrence and Mr. Colvin. Ido not wish to pro-
phesy, but I trust that yolir 1 mdships will at all events
wait until the arrival of the next mail before you allow
it to go forth ti this country and to the world that we
arc reduced to such a state as that which the noble earl
has pictured. (Hear, I ear.)
Lord BROUGHAM—In a case of this kind, consider-
ing our distance from the scene of events, I cannot help
thinking that it is of great importance to ascertain what
are the feelings—not merely the opinions, but the feeling
of alarm founded upon these opinions—of those who are
near the spot. My noble friend (Earl Granville) has
already told us that the alarm, if it ever existed, has been
nearly allayed at Calcutta. Will be also infoim us, if he
can, what are the feelings in the presidencies of Madras
and Bombay? Perhaps, also, as the money-market is a
test of alarm not altogether to be overlooked, he will add
whether the funds either at Calcutta or Bombay have
felt the effect of these events.
Earl GRANVILLE—I am much obliged to my noble
and learned friend for putting the question. While the
funds in this country fell upon the receipt of this intelli-
gence, Government paper at Calcutta and Bombay has
remained at exactly the same price.
The Earl of HARD WICKE said, although the an-
swer of the noble earl opposite was such as might be ex-
pected from the Government, it had not satisfied him as
to the measures which were to be taken for giving
prompt assistance to India. His noble friend had said
that troops had been ordered to hold themselves in readi-
ness for embarcation. Considering the distance of Indio,
he was induced to ask the noble earl whether he would,
on the part of the Government, undertake to prevail
upon the Emperor of the French, of whose friendship
and alliance we beard so much, to allow our troops to be
conveyed by the French railways to Marseilles, would
order the Mediterranean fleet to meet them there and
convey them to Egypt, and induce the Pasha of that
country to allow them to go by the Red Sea. There were
15,000 or 20,000 men at Aldershot, and it was by the
pron ptitude with which aid was sent to India that the
people would judge of the vigour and capacity of the Go-
vernment. He was dispcsed to agree with his none friend
that the war with China having been commenced must be
prosecuted; but if the militia were called out for active
service it would soon form a good army for the defence of
the country, and Government would have all the regular
troops at its disposal for carrying on to a successful issue
the wars in which it might be engaged.
The Earl of ALBEMARLE had heard with great
satisfaction the assurance given by the Lord President
as to the exce lent spirit which pervaded the armies of
Madras and. Bombay. That assurance coincided with
everything which he had heard upon the subject. He
hoped that recent events would lead to the reconsidera-
tion of the system upon which the army of Bengal was
recruited, because he believed that system was a prin-
cipal, if not the proxiimate cause of the disturbances.
The subjec' then dropped.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE—LORD PLUNKET
AND THE EXAMINER NEWSPAPER.
The Earl of DONOUG H MORE complained of an at-
tack made by the Eacsminer on rord Plunket for his
vote on Minister's Money. That attack on so inoffen-
sive a prelate was most uncalled for. He read the article,
and moved that the printer of the paper should be called
to the bar of the home.

Eerl GRANVILLE deprecated the attack, but could
not think the motion of the noble earl a serious one.
The Earl of DERBY complained that the Govern-
ment treated the matter so light'y. The attack was a
gross libel, and the writer had no idea of the duties of
the Peer or the feelings of the man of honour. The arti-
cle assumed that because Lird Plunkett's father was
made a pots- by the Whigs, that the son ought to Hied-
flee hie conscience to his party. The press had no right
to call in question their motives for exercising their
privilege of voting. Still, he would not give the printer
the honour of being called before them.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that the best
thing they could do would be to dismiss the matter from
their minds, and to go home and burn the article.
The Earl of MALUESBURY agreed that the man
who could write such an article ought not to set his foot
a!, near their lordships as the bar. Still, he thought the
Government was boand to take more noticeof the matter.
Lord BROUGHAM complained of the unjust fashion
in w bleb newspapers reported. A friend of his bad once
talked of a "damp, cold church." The newspapers
made him say, "a damned ell church." He wrote to
correct the report. The editor inserted the letter, but
added that ho had implicit reliance on the accuracy of
the reporter.

Lord DENtJAN complaine lof tbe otniesions of re-
ports, and that the press was always with the Govern-
ment,

lIARBOURS OF REFUGE.
Lori RIVENSWORTIT, in moving for returns and
corre-pmdence, urger?, upon the Government the nec?,e-
city of establizhing harbours of refuge on the ❑orth•east
coast,

Lord STANLEY raw no objection to the return,
but be could not Pee how it was to be given. He there-
fore propoeed that the return 'koold be confined to the
money expended and the amount required to complete
the works in question.
Tne r%torn, a amended, was then orJered to he made.
JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES ACT AMENDMENT

gentleman proceeded to itiquiresayhat were the causes of
the disaffection, and he dwelt upon a good many cf
thena_ which have been bruited about in d ffsrent-
societies ; but when he asks whether the Government
has been advised of those caeees and Was failed to remedy
thorn. I can only say that no application
.has been made
from the local governments till nons for en increase of
force, and I may add that the remedy which ie al ways
suggested for every evil is an increase of the Esropeen
force. The right hon. gentleman has referred, interalia,
to the withdrawal of military men for the civil service.
That has been the habitnol custom of the Indian Govern-
ment for a long series of years ; but whenever a regiment
is called int') action ou torsion or domestic service, it is
the duty of all military men who are engaged in the civil
service immediately to join their regiments. Another
cause, and a very delicate one, is the alleged interfereece
with the religion of the native troops. There certainly
has arisen an impression among the troops that there
was to be a general c inversion of the natives, and the
feeling of insubordination broke out first in the 19th regi-
ment, by the refusal of the men to bite the new cartridges,
which were supposed to be greased with an animal sub-
stance which they abhor. Those and other causes have
concurred, particularly in the Bengal army, to produce
results which are undoubtedly deserving of the deepest
consideration, but I am not aware that they have even
been brought so prominently before the Government as
to justify a charge of neglect a:ainst the Government for
not having applied a reined to them. No doubt the Bengal
army is the one chiefly animated by tais kind of disaffection
owing partly to theenlistinent in it of the higher class of
Sepoys arid to other causes which will require and will
receive the most anxious and careful investigation. The
right hon. trent'enoan alluded to some other matters which
I had rather that ho had omitted, such as an alleged
difference between the Governor-General and the Com-
mander-in-Chief. I am quite aware that the sulject has
been bruited about in private circles, but of my own
knowledge I know nothing of it. I have always heard
that those gentlemen in private speak in the highest pos-
sible terms of each other, and I am not aware that there
were such differences between them as might not ho
allowed between all men acting together in public life.
Then the last question which the right bun. gentleman
asked was, whether the Governor-General had ❑ot
actually resigned. Resign in such a crisis as this !
Why, sir, I should imagine that there was no one less
likely to allow such a thought to enter his head, and I
am happy to state that neither on this occasion nor on
any previous occasion has my noble friend tendered his
resignation. Lord Canning has behaved in this emer-
gency with the vigour and judgment which I should
always have anticipated. (Cheers.) His letters show
no want of calmness, no lack of confidence. Ho says
that he is certain that he shall be able to put this revolt
down, and he adds that when he has done so he shall
turn his mind to ascertaining the causes which have led
to it, a.nd take the best means for remedying theta.
There hag been no lukewartuness on his part, no back-
wardness, no chilly-shallyieg. His letter breathes that
calm confidence and self-possession which best become a
noble and generous mine. I hare no hesitation in pro-
phesying that my noble friend will prove himself per-
fe.•tly equal to the occasion, and when people talk of the
panic which exists in India, the best possible test of that
probably is that delicate barometer of the state of public
feeling—the funds. They have not been die tithed, and I
believe that the Company's paper remains in exactly the
same state as it was before these occurrences took place.
The right hon. gentleman is aware that to enter into
too much detail wend I not be wire on the present oc-
casion. (Hear, hear.) . I could, if it were nece-sary,
detail to the house every spot at which troops are quar-
tered, and every arrangement which regards the Pun-
jab, Bengal, and all other parts of India. There are
troops in India equal to any emergency, and, as a proof
of the truth of this statement, the house need only tern
to the conduct of the troops during the Persian war—
troops whom General Outrara described to be in as fine
a condition as any troops in the world. On the arrival
of some of those troepa at B onbay they were imme-
diately shipped to Calcutta, thence to be conveyed in
boats up the Ganges to the ♦icinity of Delhi. lam not
aware of anything else respecting which I have offered
as frank and sincere explanation as possible on the pre-
sent occasion. (Elear, hear.) As regards the allusion to
the existence of danger in the state of India, I do not
believe that any danger does exist further than that any,
outbreak may happen periodically in India from fanati-
cism or other causes, to be put down as surely as the
present outbreak will be. Therefore, I anticipate no
danger, but I express no surprise or objection on account
of the right hon. gentleman, under the existing grave
circumstances in India, and considering the loss of life
which has taken place, accompanied by horrors I should
be sorry to detail, having brought the subject under the
notice of the house, and called for an explanation, which
I hope I have tendered, however imperfectly, with' all
frauknoss. (Hear, hear.)
SAVINGS BANKS FUNDS.

On going into committee of supply,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked the Chancellor of the
Exchequer for an explanation as to the purchase of
287,6001. Three per Cent. Stock, and 2.470,000/. Exche-
quer-bills; and as to thisale of 2,384,0301. Three per
Cent. Stock, a❑d 111,0001. Exchequer-bills, belonging to
the trust-,es of savings hank in the year from the 20th of
Nov., 1855, to the 20th Nov. 1856. The hon. gentle-
man, in a lengthy speech, charged tire Chancellor of the
Exchequer with having entered upon &system of gigate
tic stock-jobbing. .He had used the savings banks funds
to buy up Exchequer-bills just before they became due,
and had thereby sent them up to es, prem., which was
merely a fictitious value.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
bad been justified both by law and by precedent in what
he had done, and maintained that both the savings banks
funds and the public had benefitted by the transactions
idluded to.
Mr. MALIN'S concurred in the complaint of the bon
member fur Kendal (Sir H. Willoughby), and said it was
unjustifiable in a► Cabinet Minister to,,be "rigging the
market" with the public money.
Mr. G. C. GLYN defended the acts of the Chancellor,
but nevertheless thought that the power of that Meister
should be limited, the eaviegi bank fund at his disposal
being so large. The present average woe about 35.500,0001
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER com-
plained that be hail been misunderstood, and he was
allowed to expla'n the nature of the operation of the pur-
chase of Exchequer-bibs, since the terms " fictitious" and
" rigging the market" kad been applied to him. It was
not a question of varying the securities or influencing the
market by a buying and se ling in the market, but a sim
pie investment by the Savings Banks Commissioners,
which it was considered advantageous to make with the
surplus money in the,r bends.
After some remarks from Mr. SPOONER and from
Mr. MA LINS in exelenetion,
Mr. AYUTON denied that the act of Parliament re-
ferred to -was paced to give Chancellors of the Ex
chequer the authority exerci-,ed by thorn for the benefit
of those wh❑ had rice interest in the fund. There cou:d
be no doubt but that the saving bank fund had been di-
minished by these operations one million, and it was high
time thet the c )unto pursued should be discontinued.
The rnbject dropped.
CIVIL SERVICE SUPERANNUATION.

Mr. RICH, notwith,tand,ne: an appeal from the Can
cellor of the Exchequer, proceeded to dram -the attent.on
of the house to the reprt of the commission on the civil
service superannuation fund, and expressed a strong opi-
nion against the conclusions to which the oomrnissioners
had come—that the deductions now levied should be re-
mitted, though the superannustiena continued to he paid.
Lord NAAS complained of the unfair conduct of Mr.
Rich, in forcing the question on at the present time,
though he knew well enough that he had a motion stand-
ing on the books for the discussion of this subject to-
morrow, Ile hoped the house would not follow the bun.
gentleman in thus forestalling the discussion. •
Mr. LABOUCHERE also recommended the house
not to go into the queEtion now.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped the Government would
take an early opportunity of saying whether they agreed
with the report of the commission or nt.t.
MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.

The house then went inta committee of supPiy.
A vote of 43,365/. wa., proposed for the department of
science and art, includi, g the expenses of the ge3logical
survey.
Mr. ELVART pointed out the inconvenience which
revulted from placing the department of science and art
under the control and supervision of the Board of Teade,
and hoped in future to see it treated in connection with
the Board of Education.

Mr. BLACK complained that so large a portion of the
vote was proposed to be expended in England, and so
small an amount in Scotland.
Mr. BLACKBURN was very strongly of opinion that
the expenses of the museums and schools of design un-
der this vote were far greater than they were worth.
Mr. COWPER entered into statistics showing the
operation of the different educational establishments at
Kensington, and other schools in different parts of the
country in connection with the department. With re-
spect to the value of these schools of art, there eould be
no doubt that they would produce a large number of
good workmen of artistic taste. The low standard of
taste which prevailed among the workmen of the country
had been very forcibly shown by the comparative results
of the Great Exhibition of 1851, and the schools of art
•• ',he country owed their 'existenee. to a desire to im-
rar a hti,her standard of art education among the work-
ing classes. At the Exhibition in Paris, in 1855, the
progress made by the English workman was marked in
a most extraordinary degree ; and, among other things,
a sideboard manufactured by Messrs. Jackson and Gra-
ham was held to be superior to any work exhibited by
French manufacturers. In porcelain and in several
other branches of our manufactures great and most im-
portant results bad been obtained from the education
rI
provided in the schools of drawing and design. With
respect to the smallness of the grants for Scotland, it
shorid be borne ;n mind that the Government had sane-
-tit,. .d the exp- diture of a large one for the purpose of a
site of land in Edi 'burgh on which to erect a new tech-
nological museum, with training schnole.
Lord ELCIHO concurred in the propriety of the vote,
and believed that the schools of design had been pro.
ductive of considerable advantage to the improvement
of industrial art, and isuggested that the varkeds
mineralogical museums now existing in Jercayn-street,
the British Museum, and South Kensington should be
collected into one museum rather than be separated as
they now were.

DILLWYN supported the vote, and was parti-
cularly in favour of the item of charge for the Paleonto-
logical professors. He complained, however, of the ex-
penses of the management of the department. The sala-
ries of professors and ai,aihtart was over 12,0001, and
formed a very large itemin the cost of the establishment.
Thera were several other items also which :appeared
much too high, and be proposed that the sum sEould be
reduced by 3,768/.
_ _

Mr. SPOONER said he would`certainly vote for the
amendment, but should propose to effect a still greater
reduction. During the last ten years the sum annually
voted for these objects had increa3ed from 6,000/, t

73,0001. Where was this system to stop ? The only
practical resat, of these debats ought to-be,to-put a:,,top
at ones to xho iskties of this money. It was right, no
doubt, for the Governm-nt to do something for the en-
couragement of a►t, but a check inwt be put to this in-
creasing expenditure. Ile sh,uld, therefore; move that
the suin be reduced to the amount voted la,t year,
making a total, with the sum already voted,. of 54,0001.,
and --that the present vote be therefore reduced by
20,0001. • .
Mr. B. HOPE should deeply regret if, especially on

such a night as that of the eve of her Majesty's visit to
the Art Treasures Exhibition at Manchester, the house
should come to a conclusion to reduce the votes by
the amount named. (A laugh.) The site now pur-
chased at Kensington afforded a melancholy proof
of the evil results of acting first and thinking after-
ward. The collection at Kensington was to be an
educational one, everything from hemp in the rough
to majoliea, in the smooth. In one place there was a
gallery of art, and close by it a collection of betties form-
ing an apothecary's shop. His hon. friend the marcher
for Swansea bad bit the right nail upon this head when
he spoke of the numerous -rival art collections which
exist in the metropolis.
Mr. NAPIER bore witness to the great advantage
_ .

which had resulted from the ebtablishment of scbo,,lsof
design in Ireland, and he should be very unwilling to
give a vote which should take a single farthing from the
original amount.

Mr. LOCKE clrnplainei of the fact that the great
bulk of the people of the metropolis had no opportunity
of seeing any of these collections, or of setting their feet
within any of the buildings which had been referre I to.
If they had not the opportunity of visiting those places
on the week days they should be permitted to do so on
the Sunday. Ho thought the working classes of the me-.
tropolis ought to be permittea, at all events, to visit the

National Gallery and the British Museum on Sundays.
Mr. CONYNGHAM -objected to the multiplication of
these heterogeneous collections of small and unimportant
articles, under the supposition that they tended to pro-
mote art among the people. Trafalgar-square was a
proper site for the. National Gallery, and he would advise
the Government to give the Royal Academy notice to
quit, and if any one was to go to, Kensington let it be
the Royal Academy.
Mr. CO W PER said that the subject of the hon. gentle-
man's remarks bad but little to do with the vote under
discussion, bat he believed public encouragement did
tend to promote art. The museum had been opened from
seven to ten o'clock in the evening, lighted by gas,
cAdly in order that the working olasses might have an
opportunity of visiting it. They had visited it in large
numbers, and he believed that, at all events in the
winter evenings, it would be a very favourite resort. The
site had been complained of because of the distance of
South Kensington from the centre of London, but the
fact wag, that the Government conll find no other
vacant sp it nearer at all suitable to the purpose. The
collection of patented inventions had been a great at-
traction h;thevo. With regard to the salaries, they
were vary low as compared with of ier similar offices..
Toe salary of the curator was to be but 2001. a-year.
With regard to paleontology, it was a science of the
greatest importance, and almost every state in the world
had a department devoted to its encouragement. Where
would Birmingham have been but for the studies of geo-
logists, which had led to the increased production of
iron. The effe.ct of the present objections was that s'a-
Vonary ignorance was preferable to advancement and
education, a sentiment be did not believe was unani-
mously entertained it that bows..
Mr. W. WILLIA.MS spoke to the great benefit that
had been derived from schools of design ; but he con-
. .

tended that they must always be supporCed and main-
tained in the localities where they had orig►nally been
established. The results of our existing schools of de-
sign ha I been that our manufacturers could now success-
fully compete :pith the continental producers. But
unless the designer was educated in the manufacturing
districts and practicaly acquainted with the commercial
bearings of his designs, he would in themajority of cases
fail altogetht r.
Mr. SLANEY supported the vote.
Alter a few words from Mr. SPOONER,
Colonel SYKES also supported the vote. Geology
was the grammar of the earth and if one of its tenses
were properly understood, the whole verb could be
conjugated.
Die CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER de-
fended the vote, and stated that the geol igicAl survey
under the direction of Sir Roderick Murchison was
going on very satisfactorily. The survey was for impor-
tant national objects, and not for the benefit of any pri-
vate individuals. He therefore trusted that his bon.
friend the member for North Warwickshire (dr. Spooner)
would not be able to persuade the house to refuse that
vote.

Mr. PLATE also supported the vote.
Toe committee then divided. The numbers were-
- Fur the vote .... 157
Fur the amendment - 33
•
Majority -124

Mr. DILLWYN then complained of the high rate of
salaries, and the item of 2,0001. for the purcbae of spe-
cimens. The prices paid were extravagantly high, and he
mentioned the sum of 1031. that had been paid for 17
pieces of Staffordshire earthenware, and 101. for a pair
of fire dogs of French design. He therefore moved that
the vote be reduced by 3.7681., which woull make the
vote 45,087/. instead of 43,8851.
The committee then divided. The numbers were—
For the original vote
For the amendment
liajmity for the vote -126
A Tote of 143,030/. was proposed for education in Ire-
land.

Mr. BLACK complained that the Government had con-
stituted itself a great publishing and bookselling estab-
lishineut ; and, on the part of the book trade, he entered
his protest against it. In the case of literature, such an
establishment was especially contrary to sound principle.
It bed the effect of checking opinion. Every literary
man who attempted to prodtue an educational work had
to compete with the Government, and thereco e there was
a check given to the spread of such literature.
Mr. BLACKBURN objected ro the agricultural mo-
del school. These Echools were strongly objected to last
year, and he then understood that no further vote would
be taken for then. Several testimonials had been puli•
lashed by the Government in favour of these schools, but
none of these testimonials were dated. One of the tisstimo-
niala si.ated that one of the schools wan of great advan-
ags to the cJuntry on Lord Monteagle's estate. Hs
should move that the vote be reduced to 125,750/.,
which struck off the amount required for there schools.
After a short discussion, the committee divided—
, For the amendmen' 34
.A.gainst it.
Maj .rity --175
The vote was then agreed to.
The lam of 4051. for the salary of the secretary to the
Commissioners or Endowed Schools was agreed to.
Several other votes were then arrreed to.
On the vote of 1,6251. for the Queen's University of
Ireland,
M. GREGORY called attention to this sum being
for twenty-one examiners, and forty-eight pupils for txl-
ruination, twelve of whom obtained glld medals and
2401. in money exhibitions, and asked for an explanation
of the manner in which the rormey had been distributed.
Mr. WILSON admitled that the number of pupils
was di.propornionate to the number of examiners, and
said that the salaries of the latter were to be considered
more es fees than salaries, but it was to be recollected
that the university was in its infancy.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS also called attention to the
die-
prorr ion of the number of examiners to the pupils
examined, ar d unless a satisfactory explanation was
given by the Government he should divide the committee
on the vote.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCREQUErI said
this college was established by S:r R. Peel, but it had
not been found to be so successful as was anticipated,
and the subject was under the consideration of GOvern-
men t.

Mr. MOWERAT and Mr. VERNON considered this a
grant in the wrong direction, and stated that they would
support the hon. member for Lambeth in dividing the
corurnittlo on the grant.
After some remarks from Mr: Kirk, Mr. W. Williams,
Mr. Gregory, and Mr. T. Egert in,
Mr. ELACKBURILNT expressed an opinion that this
college was extravagantly conducted, and in.tanced the
granting of one diploma costing the country 3,9201.
After some remarks from Mr. WILSON,
Mr. GItOGAN aeked if the commission now sitting
was on the university to which the vote related, or on
the Queen's Colleges, between which he made a distinc-
tion. lie saw no necessity of the continuance of this
university.

A discussion then ensued, in which Mr. Mowbray,
Mr. Barrow, Mr. Horawan, and (Aber members took part.
Mr. NAPIER would consent to the vote, but only
provisionally.

- Mr. NE tiVDEGATE would agree to the postpone-
ment of the vote, but could not vote for its continuance.
The committee then divided, when there appeared
For the vote
Against it
Major ty -114
The vote of 15.2001, fir completing the Queen's Col-
lege in Ireland was then agr, ed to. .
8001. for the Royal Irish Academy.
2001. for the Royal Hibernian Academy.
These two votes were afire, d to, and the house resumed.
TURNPIKE TRUSTS.

The Turnpike Trusts Abolition (Ireland) Bill passed
through committee.

-CONSTABULARY FORCE (IRELAND.)
This bill was read a second timo alter some obierva-
tions from Mr. Bagwell and Mr. I. Butt, answered by
Mr. Henry Herbert.
SIPES FOR WORKHOUSES.

This bill was read a third tiele andpassed.-
The Christchurch (West Hartlepool) Bill passed
through, committee.
MARRIED WONIEN'S [tEVERSIONARY
INTEREST.

The bill was read a third time and passed, after a pro-
test from Mr. Dobbs.
ELECTION PETITIONS.

On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. ADDERLBY stated that the object of the bill
was to put an end to the roving accusations at present
brought against members, alike degrading to the man-
hers and to the administration of justice. It would also
provide that the sanction of this house•must be given to
the withdrawal of petitions. It would be better even to
let corrupt practices take their course than to attempt
to remedy them by a system ten times more corrupt.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
it would bt, listless to proce,..d with this bill, unle:;:ttihte,
house could see that it went upon reas,ina,hie grourth,,
ant that there was come probability of carrying
objects. Ile moved that the bill be read a second time
that day three months.
Mr. MALINS supported the bill.
Sir J. V. SLIELLEy moved the adjournment of the