The Sun.
London, England, 1859-02-04 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRMAY EVENING-, FEBRUARY 4, 1850,

seemed as if the Address would be adopted without further
observation, but
Lord PALMERSTON rose amidst some merriment to
address the house. He said, sir, Ido not rise for the pur-
pose of adding a " No" to the " Aye," which has already
been expressed. (Hear, hear.) I rise to. propose no amend-
ment. I might, indeed, perhaps, if it were not taking a
liberty, propose some amendment in the composition of the
Address ; but that would be to trifle with the house upon
an occasion like the present. It has seldom, I think, hap-
Pened to this house to meet at a moment when greater and
more important questions were pending than at the pre-
sent. We are assembled with the prospect, according to
general impression, of war on the continent, which must, if
it hikes place, be productive of great disasters. We are
assembled with the announcement that we shall be called
UPon to enter into solemn deliberation upon important
changes in the constitution of this house. These are ques-
tions of themselves sufficient to engage to the'utmost the
Most anxious attention which the members of the Legisla-
ture can bestow upon any subject. Before I enter upon
the topics of the Speech I must express my cordial concur-
rence in those sentiments of congratulation with which the
hon. member who moved the Address alluded to the
auspicious event which has recently taken place in the
family of her Majesty. (Cheers.) I am persuaded that
there is not a man in this country who will not respond
to the sentiments which the hon. gentleman has so
Properly and with such good feeling expressed. (Cheers.)
When that illustrious Princess quitted these shores
the People of England looked upon her as the daughter
of England,s„,, and expressed the liveliest interest in her
—"ire welter:. We may reasonably hope that the
be an
to whom she has lately given birth may live long to
ue an ornament and an advantage to the country of his birth,
and an honour to the lineage from which he has sprung.
(Cheers.) I agree entirely in the sentiments of satisfaction
With which the mover and seconder of this Address have
received the announcement, officiallymade by her Majesty's
Government, of the prosperous internal condition of the
COa'rY. It is indeed most gratifying to find that such are
en internal resources of this country, and the energy of the
Pe°Ple, that we have in a comparatively short period of time
recovered from that disturbance of our internal interests
Which took place a little more than twelve months ago. And
144 may is that consideration most gratifying as to the pre-
sent, but it also inspires confidence in the stability of our re-
sources and the permanent prosperity and future good estate
°L the country. (Cheers.) Upon that point, therefore, I most
cordially concur in the Address which has been moved. The
SPeeeb. next adverts to that most important subject,—our
interests connected with India—a country, I may say pass-
ing, Which the Speech first describes as a great Empire, and
afterwards only as a pait of her Majesty's dominions. I
presume that the latter description is that which her Ma-
jesty's Government would, upon due reflection, abide by.
(A laugh.) It is most gratifying to find that the arrange-
relents which were begun by the late Government, and the
haPP°hitnients which that Government recommended to
er 'Majesty have been attended by the success which is
recorded in her Majesty's Speech. It is impossible to
over-praise the valour of our troops, or the skilfulness of
our
commanders—(cheers)—and it is peculiarly gratifying
to think that this valour has been exhibited by every Eng-
Lhman who has been engaged, whether civilian, or mili-
nclarYtte,rl,on r, naval, throughout the whole course of these trans-
and that all the commanders almost have shown
great skill in the conduct of the operations intrusted to
them'„ (Cheers.) With regard to Lord Clyde, who has had
the chief command, it is impossible to praise too highly, not
,i/lerely his skill in the management of his troops, but the
ulscretion and prudence with which he has abstained from
ecuninitting them to enterprises which were beyond their
strength at the moment, and the care which he has taken
of the limes and health of the troops under his command—
kileers)—for it is as groat a quality in a general to care for
he health and safety of his troops as it is to conduct them
to victory in the hour of battle. (Hear, hear.) It is most
gratifying to those who were members of the late Govern-
ment to find the appointments which they recommended
her Majesty to make with respect to the command of the
forces in India, and the Governor-Generalship of that coun-
try, have beencrowned with the success which has attended
those two most distinguished men ; and I am sure the
tantry will appreciate their merits in their respective
°taws. (Cheers.) Although I cannot go so far as the se-
conder of the Address in saying that the last embers of re-
belli •
on have been stamped out, because we are told, even in
the Speech from the Throne, that there are still in India
arnica in the field, yet it is evident that the rebellion is
substantially put an end to, and that that which remains to
do will be chiefly in pursuit of those fugitive bands who are
more marauders than enemies in the field. It is gratifying
to know that her Majesty's advisers will turn their atten-
tion to these subjects which are essential to the permanent
tranquillity of India. There is great anxiety in this country
M know what are the views of her Majesty's Government
as to the principles upon which India shall be governed.
41, he Speech next adverts to the state of our foreign rela-
"ls, and undoubtedly that is one of the most anxious
Tatters to which the attention of the country can be turned.
"ging by what we are told, there is aprobability of a great
European war, beginning by a conflict in Italy between
France and Sardinia on the one hand, and Austria on the
other, the object of which will be, I presume, the expulsion
of Austria from the frontier of Italy. Now, there are many
Who think and I undoubtedly am one of those, that it
Would be most desirable, with a view not merely to the
isnhterests of Italy, but the interests of Austria herself, that
(4eehould not possess those provinces south of the Alps,
tributea hear.) Ido not believe that those possessions con-
point to her strength. lam sure that they place her in a
°f 'view which makes her an object of hatred to many,
Mont elves a course of policy from which a wise Govern-
haw'lL.ight be desirous to abstain. But we must recollect
ins that she is in possession of those provinces. She
qesesses those provinces by virtue of that general treaty of
Ent.° Which is the title-deed of many other territories in
ki.e.Pe possessed by other Powers. That treaty was the
De at of Europe. It might, perhaps, have been
it
ins the
of that arrangement had not been
it Would have
the treaty—(hear)—and, as it now turns out,
had L'_l(l have been better, I think, if different arrangements
to boon made for Northern Italy. But we must, in order
at tO of that, carry our thoughts back to the state of things
at „7 Tile when that treaty was made, and the reason! that
lirr7sa e time led the parties concerned to think ho existing
the yl,`,,ge?inents were the best. There were certain claims on
Were
other Austria founded upon ancient possession. There
fte._ .other considerations connected possibly with the
or urea defence of that portion of Italy. At all events, right
of' if:°..ng, that was an arrangement in which the great Powers
hit`Re concurred, and they sanctioned it by treaty ; and
ts atianr submit that no Power could justly violate that
ikausi.oy attempting, without reason or cause, to dispossess
to berm of that which the treaty gives her. Treaties ought
ttgid, lesPected. If any theoretical preference were to set
ive,s7,'llo stipulations in any treaty all the affairs of Europe
eitt`74 be at sea, and it would be impossible to tell the con-
The to which such a principle would lead. (Cheers.)
It is beginning of a war is not a light thing. (Hear, hear.)
its limits to begin it; it is impossible to say what will be
Ault I.lnts• War between two such great Powers as
that'' butt
France may begin about the possession of min
Ile o say who might ultimately be involved in
Ile_ contest is beyond the sagacity of, man. (Cheers.)
ub ,ipar sa; herefore, who would engage on or commence such a
duly weigh the responsibility which attaches to
°!ell. To commence such a war would be to inv!lve
fe‘. pe in calamities which it would be difficult to describe,
b no allae which, however in the abstract desirable, would
also Means justify such a war. But in saying this I must
of r°i eaY that although Austria stands upon the firm ground
virtue gt with gareto those provinces, which she holds by
part of a treaty to which all the Powers of Europe are
vilefB, She does not stand upon the same ground of right
-.let she goes beyond the limits to which that treaty refers
Itaeers)—and that the occupation of the other portions of
,ilili:eot belonging to her is not justified by any treaty right
there NvAlletria possesses. I should hope that, although
do, be no war—I trust there will be none—l should
Pe that these subjects having been taken into considera-
hitdhiy, the different Governments of Europe, arrangements
u De made for the cessation of that exceptional state of
gtntgs which now exists by the occupation of the Papal
47,,tes by Austrian troops on the one hand and by French
wisl)B the other. (Cheers.) That is a state of things
the has continued long enough. It is a departure from
,-I,4;_ordinary state of things. It is not a violation, undoubt-
,4ll4
aosfaayviratatnbol sanctioned
thesed by no treaty. It is
would troopsrea oinutincuTe-
tlit°l3. were withdrawn, revOlutioni
psorean and Neapolitan States. But I would suggest that
gere is a better remedy for that than foreign occupation. I
111%1dd suggest a reform of those abuses which have created
ad (hear, hear)—and let those Governments but adopt the
p rice given them so long ago as 11832, by the five great
h'lwors of Europe—let them reform their system, let them
'l,t an end to t3rrannical abuses which oppress and eras-
the people, and then there will be no revolution—
IVthe occupation might cease, and the internal trunquil-
of the country would be no longer endangered. (Cheers.)
tens, 't if those Governments will not Fut an end to that sys-
I—,:4hY must abide by the consequences. Therefore, Sir,
that With all men of reasonable minds, in deprecating
eu,„War of which rumours have. spread far and 'd
"1
theand
sell's`rs the hope that the sagacity of rulers, and goodEurope.
those nations will tend to preserve the peace of
!hoser
.he.) lam glad to hear that the arrangement of
laugh Provinces which of late have got a new name (a
IMt%l--„which we used to call the Danubian Prov.inces,
satiai l'eu we now call the Rouman Provinces—is going on
ottai actorily ; and I hope that the new name they have
iliter:ed Will not give rise to new ideas at variance with the
satt,ilets to protect which was the object of the new orgam-
heeti We are informed that a treaty of commerce has
fue„,Nacluded with Russia which has re-established those
he'nry. relations which hadbeen disturbed by the late war.
ielatthly rejoice in that announcement. Our commercial
1M °s with
th Proveirte Russia are on an unsatisfactory footing—great
e hit . tits are needed with regard to having access to
aierior of the country, and I presume that this treaty
R,lves re„liS all the advantages which the French treaty
retrial ° 'no subjects of France, and will remove those in-
extendlkstacles which preclude our subjects in Russia from
(14arlilig their enterprise into the interior of the empire.
greiltiliZt.) e had differences with Russia on matters
Ska eft ical importance, but I. am per suaded the teri-
intereBtT_e people of this country will lead them to look with
We „ a friendly intercourse with Russia the moment
our e 'ssured that those ambitious projects whichprompted
storrd7stance are laid aside, and that Russia is disposed to
\sip, ecilities of access to her interior, and to reciprocate
%ILlA:tiler nations of the earth the advantages of trade and
Dli:eree• (Hear hear.) The speech then adverts to the
roni e:4"„,ar. We are qadto find that our successors in office
tills'e fully the glad to flndthat our successors in office
idly the great advantages which have arisen
°Perot. e War with China—(cheers and a laugh)—that those
alrns hi China which were undertaken in concert with
fredceLtim Emperor of the French, by the advice of their
attire° "s°rs, have resulted in the prospect of an extended
toot, lirse with that country. It is never too late to wel-
tat l'ePontant •
sinner, and it is most gratifying to find
hoseJiistiee en the gentlemen opposite were not disposed to
eperta%the motives and view of those by whom
st
u n.s. were recommended, they are at as
re'siiiijiltV.o participate in the fruits in which they have
Mau (Cheers.) I have no doubt, with the hon. gentle-
ope,,,Zuo seconded the Addres, that the result of t
r
"404 wilt be an extended intercourse with the great

population of China and also with the empire of Japan.
And allow me to say, in passing, that her Majesty's late
Government contemplated opening negotiations with Japan
as well as with China ; and that instructions were given
by them to Lord Elgin, on which he acted in his negotia-
tions with the Japanese. I concur with the hon. gentle -
man in thinking that the commercial intercourse, the pros-
pect of which is noNt opened up, will be productive of great
advantages to the commercial and manufacturing interests
of this country ; but I also concur with him in warning the
country against indulging in over-exaggerated expecta-
tions ; because, as we found when the former treaty was
made we did not reap the advantages of it so rapidly as
might hale been expected, so also, on the present occasion
those who enter into this commercial intercourse should be
cautious and not too hasty in their expectations of the re-
sults. Sir, lam most delighted to learn, not only from the
Speech from the Throne, but also f rom what we have seen
in the foreign papers, that that system of the slave trade
into which, under the name of free immigration, the French
Government had incautiously been led, has been at last
stopped from the east coast of Africa, and I most earnestly
hope that it will be put an end to on the western coast also.
(Hear, hear.) It was the slave trade in its worst form.
(Hear.) You may call it " free immigration" if you please,
but men bought and sold are no more free when taken on
board a vessel of M. Regis than they would be if exported
in a Spanish or Portuguese ship. The traffic was charac-
terised by all the abominations of the old slave trade, and
when those unhappy victims were landed on French soil,
their condition, though it was nominally denominated free,
was in truth anything but free ; for, although slavery had
been abolished in the French possessions, and the condition
of those unfortunate persons was not so bad as it would have
been in Cuba, still they were slaves. But the French Go-
vernment were led into a mistake on this subject ; they
were deceived by interested men, and led to suppose, what
is not the case, that the transaction in question was free
from the taint of the slave trade. Their eyes, however,
have been opened by the flagitious and iniquitous circum-
stances connected with the matter of the Charles et Georges
—and I shall be glad if those circumstances have convinced
the French Government of the iniquity of the enterprise in
which that vessel was engaged. In 1815 the French Go-
vernment, in conjunction with the other Powers of Europe,
made the most solemn protest against the slave-trade. They
declared.that the slave trade ha been considered by just
and enlightened men in all ages as repugnant to the prin-
ciples of humanity, and that they would endeavour to put
an end to a practice which had for so many years desolated
Africa and afflicted humanity. If the Government of a
country which was a party to that noble declaration in 1815
could now, more than 40 years afterwards, fall back into
all the criminalities then denounced, it would be the most
afflicting spectacle of human degradation that the eyes of
man ever witnessed. (Cheers.) I cannot believe, there-
fore, that this practice will be persisted in, and I hail with
great satisfaction the intimation that negotiations aro
going on which will put an end to this abominable trade,
not only on the eastern but also on the western coast of
Africa. I presume, with regard to the transactions con-
nected with the case of the Charles et Georges, to which I
have alluded—transactions with which, I apprehend, the
public are very imperfectly acquainted—her Majesty's
Government will, at the earliest period, lay the papers on
the table, in order that the house may know what has been
the course pursued by her Majesty's Government in refer-
ence to that matter. We know there are circumstances in
which we are bound by treaty to render assistance to Por-
tugal should she need it. That is a consideration which
tray bear on the negotiations in question, and, therefore, it
is desirable to know in what manner her Majesty's Govern-
ment have acted in the matter. The Speech says the
patience of her Majesty's Government has been exhausted
by the continued outrages practised by the two contending
parties in Mexico on British subjects. I believe the Go-
vernment have acted wisely in that respect. The conduct
of those Spanish American Republics from the one end to
the other has been a series of outrages on all foreign resi-
dents. In Mexico especially, our fellow countrymen have
had the greatest cause for complaint. The very nature of
Republicans renders it difficult for other nations to deal
with them. (A laugh.) Thoy are very much in the habit
of obeying no law but that dictated by passion and caprice,
and their external arrangements are as unsettled as their
internal condition. With regard is those Spanish Ameri-
can States, I think the only conrse open from time to time
is to employ force in order to obtain that justice for British
subjects which persuasion and diplomatic negotiations may
fail to enforce. We are informed that a large expenditure
will be necessary to provide for the re-construction of the
navy. It is undoubtedly true that the general employment
of steam as a propelling power for ships of war has rendered
comparatively useless many of those vessels of which our
navy was formerly composed. I shall, of, course, wait to
hear what the proposal of the Government on this subject
may be ; but I am sure the house and the public will feel
that atall times, and more especially at the.present moment,
it is an object of vast importance to this country to have a
powerful and efficient navy. (Cheers.) We hear of great
armaments elsewhere, and though we have no reason to
think that these armaments are in the remotest degree in-
tended to be directed against us, yet, at the same time,
when other nations arm it is essentially due to the secu-
rity, the dignity, and the interests of this country that we
should provide proper means of defence. (Cheers.) We
are informed that several new bills are to be presented to
the house. Many of these bills—l may say most of them,
relate to matters to which the late Government had given
their attention, and with regard to some of them measures
had been in preparation. Indeed, I think the Lord Chan-
cellor of the late Government had brought bills into the
House of Lords calculated to accomplish some of the objects
now brought under our notice. (Hear, hear.) I am sure
the house will give ample attention to the measures which
her Majesty's Government may introduce, especially in
connection with matters so important to the commercial
interests of the country as the laws affecting bankruptcy
and insolvency. (Hear.) We have been informed that a
bill is to be brought in to make indefeasible the title of
every man to the estate which he possesses, whether his
title be now good or bad. (Laughter.) lam sure such an
announcement will be received with the greatest satisfaction
by all owners of land, for they must be charmed to think
that all doubtful titles will be made undoubted, and that
henceforth they will have an indefeasible title to their land
whatever the nature of their present titles may be.
(Laughter.) I presume the announcement implies the estab-
lishment in this country of something like the system that
has so advantageously been employed in Ireland—(hear,
hear)—and, I have no doubt that, if properly devised, it
will be received with satisfaction by the house, and prove a
most useful measure, not only to the landed but to the com-
mercial interests of the country. (Hear, helm) It is the
usual practice to reserve thebest and most important things
for the last, and accordingly her Majesty's Government,
after having kept the house and the public on the tenter-
hooks of expectation through many long preceding para-
graphs, at last come to the topic which is at present most ex-
citing the attention of the public—viz., the subject of Par-
liamentary Reform. (Hear.) I take the lastparagraph in the
speech to mean that her Majesty's Government have a bill
ready prepared upon that subject, and that it is their inten-
tion without the least delay to lay it on the table of the
house, in order that the house and the public may have an
opportunity of consideringit. I think that is a proper course
for them to pursue. (Hear, hear.) I think that a measure
of such deep importance as that properly belongs to the
responsible Government of the country—(hear, hea r)—and
I hope the house will receive with due respect the measure
which her Majesty's Government are about to propose, and
that they will make it the subject of their serious and
anxious deliberation. (Hear, hear.) When it is proposed
the house will have an opportunity of judging of its merits
or its faults ; but it is a measure which I think the respon-
sible Government of the country ought to take upon itself.
(Hoar, hear.) We have been told that the measure they
are about to propose will not affect the stability of the
Throne. (A laugh.) Well, I should hardly imagine any
measure of her Majesty's Government likely to affect the
stability either of the Throne or the great institutions of
the country. (Hear, and laughter.) lam persuaded there
is in this country a most devoted attachment to the moxar-
chical system of government. (Hear, hear.) lam per-
suaded that the great institutions of this country are
founded on the convictions and in the deeply-rooted affec-

tions of the people. (Hear, hear.) I am persuaded that
when the people of this country look around them in the
world, and see on the ono hand the nations which are ruled

by deispotic authority, and on the other the nations which
are ruled by a power coming from below—(great laughter,
caused by the action of the noble lord, who pointed to the
floor)—I mean the Republican—when the people of this
country see the results of these two opposite systems and
effects which they produce, and when they compare the
condition of these countries with the happy condition in
which we are fortunately placed, the attachment which, as
Englishmen, they feel to our institutions will become

every day more deeply rooted, and they will not consent to
any changes that are likely materially to affect those insti-
tutions which are the pride, the glory, and the happiness
of our country. (Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said—l am
glad to hear that neither the noble lord nor any other mem-

ber of the house is about to offer any opposition to the
Address which has been moved and seconded by my two

hon. friends with such distinguished ability. (Hear.) And,
sir, it would hardly have been necessary for mo to rise

after the noble lord, had it not been that I wished to show
him that courtesy which is always accorded to each other
by the members of this house, and had he not made one or
two observations which, if I had not risen, might have led

to misconception. The noble lord discussed the various

subjects referred to in the Speech and in the Address
which has been proposed in a manner more elaborate
than probably it is the wish of the house that I should

do. He seems not to ho satisfied with the composition of
the Speech, though the subject matter of it meets with his
approbation. Criticism, we know by experience, is easier
than composition. (A laugh.) I have in the course of my
life heard even the composition of the noble lord criticised.
(A laugh.) With respect to that epithet which appears to
have attracted more particularly the critical attention of
the noble lord—that by which we describe the Danubian
Principalities--I believe the epithet " Rouman" was bor-
rowed from a despatch of the noble lord. (Laughter.) The
noble lord has referred to that passage in the Speech which
announces the probable termination of the system of immi-
gration known as the free scheme, which so long excited
the attention and reprobation of this country, and he thinks
that is a result on which the house and the country may be
congratulated. But the noble lord made some allusion to
the conduct of the Government with respect to the ship
" Charles et Georges," and expressed his belief that wo
should not hesitate to place on the table of the house the
papers that will be necessary to illustrate the course taken
by the Government with respect to it. The noble lord is
under no mistake on that head. I will take a very early
opportunity of laying the papers on the table of the house;
but I may be permitted to say, as so much has appeared in
the newspapers of a very unauthorised character, accom-
panied with garbled extracts from the documents connected
witli other countries, that I shall lay there papers on the
table with the full conviction that they will prove that the

advisers of her Majesty did tbeir duty to their Sovereign
and their country in respect to that question. (Hear, hear.)
As the noble lord has alluded to treaties under which he
seems to think we are bound to come forward at a moment

of emergency in support of our ancient ally Portugal, I
may be permitted to inform the noble lord that no question
under whose treaties was ever raised, that no appeal in

consequence of those treaties ever was made to her

Majesty's Government—(hear, hear)—and that when
it was recently demanded of the Prime Minister of Por-
tugal in the Parliament of his own country why he had
not made that appeal to the English Government ho de-
clared, among other good reasons why he did not, that it
was his belief that no cams frAleris had arisen. (Hear,
hear.) When the papers are placed on the table it will be

seen, and, I believe, accepted by the house, that the proper
advice was.given by the Government to our ancient ally,

that all the "good offices which, considering the relations
that subsist between Portugal and this country, might have
been expected of us were exercised in the right quarter in
her behalf, and that terms were obtained which might have
been accepted by Portugal with honour to herself and with
satisfaction to Europe. (Hear, hear.) The reason why
those terms unfortunately were not accepted will appear in
these papers ; but I believe it will be the opinion of the
house, and also of the country, when the subject is calmly
and completely investigated, that the conduct of her Ma-
jesty's Government in that respect was such as became a
British Ministry towards an ancient ally. (Hear, hear.)
I have no wish to avoid the topics to which the noble lord
has alluded, but, as those remarks lead to little controversy,
I should be wasting the time of the house if I entered upon
a discussion scarcely provoked by anything that has fallen
from the noble lord. The noble lord says her Majesty's
Governmext have kept for the last paragraph of the Speech
the most important and most pressing subject which it con-
tains. That it is one of the most important no one can
doubt, and it is as pressing as the house will consider any
subject to be which demands its calm consideration. But
when the noble lord expects that, without the least delay,
the measure for the amended representation of the people
shall be laid upon the table, I beg to state the the
noble lord is perfectly right in supposing that the
measure in question is prepared, and that it is
the duty of her Majesty's Government to introduce it at a
period when it can receive ample deliberation, and when
Parliament will have time to comprehend the purport
of all its details. But the noble lord cannot expect, or if
he does indulge so unreasonable an expectation he will be
disappointed, in supposing that her Majesty's Government
will bring forward that measure before the urgent business
of the country can be put in a proper frame—(cheers and
some murmurs)—and before my right hon. friend the First
Lord of the Admiralty can bring forward that subject
which he admits is not second in importance to any that can
occupy our attention. (Hear, hear.) At the proper time,
and giving to tho house the most ample opportunity to
consider its merits, I shall be prepared on the part of the
Government to introduce that measure to their considera-
tion. (Hear, hear.) Sir, the noble lord has touched upon
a subject which I believe at this moment engages the atten-

ion of Parliament and the country even more than the one
I have just mentioned, and that is the state of our relations
with foreign Powers, and the state of the relations existing
between two of our principal allies. (Hear, hear.) The
noble lord has talked of the probability of a war, which he
himself describes as one that -may be general. Now,.
Sir, for my own part, I have no wish to conceal from
the house that, in tho opinion of her Majesty's Go-
vernment, the state of affairs abroad is critical.
If I attempted to conceal that opinion it would be in
vain, because in these days of rapid communication few
men who are well instructed in public affairs are igno-
rant of events that have happened which might in a brief
space of time bring about a very critical state of affairs.
But if the noble lord expects that I can entirely agree
with him in the opinion that a war between two great
Poviers—a war which may involve the whole of Europe—is
a matter of probability, I must say that I should hesitate
before I accepted that description of the present emergency.
(Hear, hear.) That the state of affairs is critical I admit,
but it is not a state of affairs that makes me believe that the
maintenance of peace is by any means hopeless. (A laugh.)
Sir, the house is well aware—because hourly and daily
something occurs which impresses the fact upon its know-
ledge—that there exists at this moment great jealousy and
distrust between France and Austria. (Hear, hear.) Sir,
her Majesty's Government, under the present state of
affairs, have taken that course which they believed was the
one most conducive to maintain peace and remove that jea-
lousy and distrust between two great Powers who are the
allies of her Majesty. We have frankly communicated t),
France and Austria our views of their relative position in Italy,
which hasled to this unfortunate jealousy and misconception
between these two great Powers. We are as much alive to the
unsatisfactory condition of parts of Italy as the noble lord him-
self or any of his late colleagues can be. We have before dis-
cussed in this house the subject of Italy, and high authori-
ties on all sides and representing all parties in this house
have expressed their opinions. Sir, I think the house will
agree with the noble lord, whose observations I listened to
with complete satisfaction, when ho deprecated any con-
duct on the part of any Power that would disturb those
important treaties which are the guarantees of Europe and
order. The noble lord spoke so explicitly on that head
that no misconception of his opinions can possibly prevail.
But the noble lord justly observes—and all men of sense
must agree with him—that the state of Central Italy is
highly unsatisfactory, as it is very little, if at all, connected
with the important treaties the validity of which the noble
lord wishes, like all sensible men, to uphold. The present
Government have long been conscious, and their pre-
decessors were equally aware, of the' unsatisfactory state of
Central Italy. But let me ask the house calmly to re-
member what is the cause of that unsatisfactory state ?
What is one of theprincipal causes that have created among
foreign Powers a dissatisfaction with respect to its condi-
tion ? It is that Central Italy is occupied by the armies of
foreign Powers. (Hear, hear.) It is because Central Italy
is occupied by the armed force of two of the great military
empires of Europe. And let the house recollect what aro
the Powers in question that occupy Central Italy. They
are the empires of France and Austria, from whose mutual
jealousy and mistrust so much danger arises. What has
been the course taken by her Majesty's Government under
these circumstances ? We have impressed upon our allies
France and Austria, and we have not limited our represen-
-Wiens to those two great Powers, but have impressed upon
the Courts of Turin, of Berlin, and of St. Petersburg our
opinion, that the state of Italy is no doubt unsatisfactory,
and that it is highly expedient that measures should be
taken to remove those long existing causes of public dis-
content and those circumstances which are calculated to
disturb the general peace. (Hear, hear.) But wo have
equally and firmly expressed our opinion that these great
and beneficial results cannot be obtained by attempting to
subvert the established order that has been secured by the
public treaties to which the noble lord has referred, but rather
by using the influence of tho States most interested in the
condition of Italy to improve the condition of Central Italy
itself. (Cheers.) While we have done this—while we have
endeavoured, both with regard to France and Austria, to
remove the mistrust that has unfortunately arisen between
them—while we have sought to allay the suspicions that
have been unhappily excited—while we have placed before
them every consideration that could be urged for maintain-
ing that general peace which has been so long preserved,
and which has been, upon the whole, so beneficial to the
cause of humanity and civilisation—while we have done
this we have equallyimpressedupon these two great Powers
the duty that devolves upon thorn of entering, not into
hostile rivalry for the military command of Italy, but into
that more generous emulation of seeking to advance its in-
terests and improve its condition. (Cheers.) We have
pointed out to France and Austria that their peculiar posi-
tion—the one being essentially an Italian Power, and the
other a Power in military possession of the ancient capital
of Italy, and lyine•b iu geographical contiguity to Italy—
while Austria and France are the two favourite children of
the Church—makes it the primary duty of these two Powers
to hold counsel together, and see whether by their united
influence a course of policy cannot be urged upon the
Princes of Central Italy which shall lead to the removal:of
those abuses and that misgovernment which a general and
universal opinion has pronounced intolerable. (Cheers.)
We have shrunk from joining in those efforts ourselves, not
from any wish to avoid responsibility or the fulfilment of
the high duties which must devolve at a critical moment in
the affairs of Europe on all great Powers, but we have felt
that England being. a Protestant State, her obtrusiveness on
such an occasion might be misinterpreted, and that it would
be better that France and Austria should. join and exercise
their united influences to obtain those results which Eng-
land is equally anxious to see realised as themselves. (Hear.)
The same feeling, no doubt, has also influenced Prussia and
Russia, both States which hold no communion with the See
of Rome. But while we have refrained from obtrusively
thrusting ourselves forward—while wo have used every
persuasion to induce France and Austria to combine to-
gether and unite their influence for the great object, the
improvement of the Italian Government—we have also
told them that if the result of their deliberations
be that it would, in their opinion, be of importance
that the other great signatories of the treaties of
1815 should combine with them for ulterior and ultimate
purposes—if, for example, some new arrangement of the
territory of Central Italy should be deemed by France and
Austria necessary and expedient—we would assist them to
the utmost with our emnsel and influence to bring about
such a result, and we would call upon the other signatories
of the greatest treaties of 1815 to join and aid in that ob-
ject. (Hear.) I believe that the course which her Ma-
jesty's
Government has taken at this moment is one which,
when fairly understood and discussed, would be approved
by the House of Come.ltmabiraieoestne.elsff.. (Cheers) It is a course which
counsels and would secure peace—(cheers)—but it would
secure peace by a policy which would ameliorate the condi-
tion of Italy and advance the general civilisation of man-
kind. (Cheers.) We cannot believe, and no sensible man
can believe, that the improvement or regeneration of Italy
can ever be secured by making it once more the hostile field
of contending armies. (Hear.) The course which we are
recommending appears to me to be sound, so moderate,
but at the same time so recommending itself to all judi-
cious men, that I do not, and cannot, despair of
its ultimately proving to be the course which will be
adopted, and therefore, although I admit that the condition
of affairs is critical, I will not yet agree with the noble lord
that war—and perhaps, European war—is a matter now of
probability. (Hear, hear.) The word may have escaped
inadvertently from his lips, but it is a word of great import,
and it is escaped from lips which, on these subjects, have
just weight on public opinion; and, therefore, the house
will excuse me for making this comment upon it. (Hear,
hear.) I said we made representations to the Court of Turin
in the same sense and with the same frankness and fulness
as we made representations both to France and Austria.
The position of Sardinia is one which necessarily and natu-
rallyiotdhfualiolttn7sildle:rmirdni
stionplitad.aeassel
Itltnyssf::maywmii
be
sympathy thy in a free Parliament, and there is
no State in Italy which the English feelings have more
clustered round than the kingdom of Sardinia, especially
meanseal
lteyear
in
nya hear.)nmd.i e
publicl, Vih tll
ihlebenehori aittivyi a.asoldvlNivelhopedilv nl
a
_st
y
linqislo °eilveesr every gwhichene r o accuseda generous wellt
. Bfounded,
dro
n la
dn and
impresss o
ragingon
nthat interesting State that patience in her career is as neces-
saryrp nr disane as
the
Nsvv
al;nai
peel
riuhnaacsgbthli e a
ecinehooarfs
eiprs suthaubnoel
shown,
,s
vca
nn,
and
t l
rnedhe ,
liberty,
e eni rhiat bgniycyo-
which
ac nevd
certaineLr every
maintainingl l t
year t
ofa
is
oenrdte aer, by maintaining her public liberty, by becoming expe-
osrihbeetanNeivnedaisng her ultimate end—namely, the advancement and
elevation of the country, than by combining with any great
Power who may lend to her for a moment the unnatural
impulse of overwhelming force, but who will probably only
draw her into scenes of unnatural exertion which must
eventually terminate in the degradation Of any small State.
(Cheers), I cannot tell the house—l should be misleading
witsoh.
all Btuhte theys
tStates
e have
N or;
the house if I attempted to convey to them—that the re-
presentations which we have made have already as corn-
been made frankly, fully, an
pletely effected the purpose which
frchwe
y

Europe. -No misunderstanding exists respecting the inten-
tions of I..er Majesty's Government, and, whatever may
happen, the advice -which we have given, and our allies,
and the principles of the policy which we have upheld, are
such as, I believe, will be sanctioned and ratified by the
House of: Commons. (Loud cheers.) I confess that, among
other ca uses why I will still indulge in the belief that these
rumours of war, which have been so rife will pass away, one
main mason is because I have confidence in the character of
the ruler of France. (Hear, and a faint "Oh 1") What-
ever may be said he has proved to this country a faithful
ally—(cheers)—he has shoo n himself for no short period a
sagacious Prince. (Hear, hear.) We are told sometimes
indeed that although a faithful ally he is always meditating
some blow against this country, which may take it at a
fatal disadvantage ' • but you will recollect that when in a
distant dominion—l will not call it an empire, as the noble
lord disapproves of the phrase--we were ourselves involved
in a large and dangerous war, we did not find on the part
of the Emperor of the French any great eagerness to avail
himself of the occasion when we were embarrassed and per-
plexed, and T cannot, therefore, suppose, looking merely to
his interest, and not to his inclination (although I give
him credit for the best and highest), that he would select
for the moment of quarrel the peeninr time when
England is stronger, and has more resources at her
command than she ever had since the Peace of Paris
in 1815. (Cheers.) When we have a larger army in
England itself than wo have ever had for the last 44 years;
when our fleet, notwithstanding that we have read in the
newspapers, still capable—and when my right honourable
friend (Sir J. Pakington) has detailed his plan for its
complete reconstruction, the house will also agree is still
capable —to maintain the honour of this eountry—(cheers)
—when the nation, as her Majesty has most truly and most
graciouslyinformed Parliament, is content and prosperous;
when our resources never were more considerable ; when
the spirit of the country never was higher why should I
suppose that one who has avoided an opportunityi when, had
he looked for it, he might have attacked us with advantage
should deem this the moment of all others to quarrel with
a Power the alliance with which I believe to be his proudest
boast ? (Cheers.) I have always maintained in this house
the high policy of an alliance with France. (Hear, hear.)
In expressing my opinion that it is a policy which this coun-
try ought to uphold, I have reminded the house that it is a
policy which the most sagacious Sovereigns and most emi-
nent statesmen that England ever possessed have at all times
advocated. An alliance with France was the policy which
Queen Elizabeth and the Lord Protector both adopted. It
was the only point upon which Lord, Bolingbroke and Sir
Robert Walpole agreed. I believe it was the policy that Mr.
Fox and Mr. Pitt alike approved. It is no now policy. There
may have been intervals of misunderstanding between the
countries. There is still the recollection of a great war
which a great Revolution produced, but it has been followed,
let me remind the house, by a peace of double the dUration
(hear, hear)—and why are we to suppose for a moment that
an alliance which the greatest statesmen have always
adopted, which for 240 years has more or less prevailed be-
tween the two countries depends on the caprice of an indivi-
dual or the fleeting fancy of a nation ? (Hear.) There must
be deeply -rooted reasons why that alliance is what I will
call it, a natural alliance. (Hear, hear,) There may be a
thousand superficial difficulties arising from the contiguity
of the two countries, from the quick and constant emulation
which subsists between two nations, each confessedly in the
van of civilisation,:from the recollection of an ancient and a
passing quarrel, or from the difference and contrast of the
national character, yet there must be deep reasons for the
political connexion of the two when we find it sanctioned
by such high authorities as the greatest Sovereign and the
Most illustrious statesmen we have ever known. (Cheers.)
It is an alliance independent of dynasties, individvals, or
forms of government We have nothing to do with them;
all that we have to be assured of—and we are assured of it
—is that the relations between the two countries are such
as must be to the advantage of the two nations and of the
world at large. These being my general opinions on the
subject, and having expressed them when other princes
were on the throne, when other dynasties flourished, and
when a different form of goverinnent prevailed why
should I be prevented from saying now that, so far as
this country is concerned, it has found in the Emperor of
the French a faithful ally, proved at a moment of emer-
gency, and I believe the alliance between the two countries
is prized as a great act of policy by that Prince ? I cannot
therefore bring myself to think that so sagacious a Prince
is about wantonly to disturb the peace of the world, and to
subvert the good opinion which his previous conduct has
gained. Until much more has happened than has yet reached
us, I will not relinquish the opinion that the agitation which
now undoubtedly exists in men's minds as to the state
of the relations between France and Austria will pass away
—I will still cling to the opinion that the termination of the
present state of things will not be a struggle between two
military powers which cannot' benefit Italy, but rather a
wise, politic, well considered union between two great powers
in devising measures which will lead to the improvement
of the condition of Italy and to the removal of those causes
of war, which so long as that condition remains unimproved
must periodically recur. I have attempted, not in answer
to the observations of the . noble lord on this important
subject, but in noticing them, to place before the house
the policy which the Government have pursued and
are pursuing with reference to the condition of Italy
and the jealousies at present existing between two great
powers. We have entered into no alliances ;we have made
no agreements on the subject, but we have given to all the
powers concerned the same frank, friendly, and cordial
counsel. It is a counsel which has two objects—first, the
maintenance of peace ; secondly, the improvement of the
condition of Italy ; and I cannot relinquish my persuasion
that, in an age like the present, when public opinion, if not
omnipotent in every country, exercises in every country a
great and benignant sway, a military struggle will not be
entered into from a wanton spirit of aggression, but that
great Princes, wherever seated, whether in France or in
Germany, will feel that there is a higher glory than mere
military glory—a truer source of power than the mere deve-
lopment of military force. (Hear.) I think every day must
more and more convince monarchs and cabinets that there
are sources of strength to be enjoyed by a nation, for the
enjoyment of which moral influences are required, and
which no material resources can command. The respect of
the world, the appreciation by the civilise communities of
Europe of the conduct of a Prince, give him a credit on the
exchanges of Europe more important than the treasure
which he derives from his subjects. The belief that he dares
to resist the temptation of military lust, that ho desires to
acquire reputation for political justice, gives to that Prince
an authority which the organisation of troops will never
command. These aro opinions prevalent in high places
—they are no longer confined to the closets of philoso-
sophers---they aro influencing, even at this moment, the
course of public affairs. The very announcement in
the speech troth the Throne thisi day, referring to the ter-
mination of the misconception botwean Portugal and France
is an illustration of the power, of public opinion. A great
Prince was placed in momentary-=I will not call it collision
—but painful misconception with an honourable Power of
very inferior strength. His fleets arrived in the Tagus, and
by the demonstration of superior force he obtainoo ob-
ject of his desires. But at the moment he felt that public
opinion did not approve of that recourse to superior power,
he reflected upon his position, he acknowledged the force of
truth, and in the letter to his relative, Prince Napoleon, in
the commission which he issued and in the treaty which is
virtually concluded, he showed the respect he felt for the
public opinion of enlightened Europe. I believe he will act
in the same spirit now. It is natural that he should take
especial interest in the condition of Italy. He is connected
with it by blood, by his contiguity to it as a great Power,
and by many considerations which cannot influence a Nor-
them and Protestant state ; but we have evidence in his
previous conduct that he is influenced bypublic opinion, and
I believe the same effect will be produced now. I am glad the
house has shown itself disinclined to question the general
accuracy of the representations made by the mover and
seconder of the Address, and I trust the rest of the session
will be as pacific as this night. (Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON—I wish to set -myself right with
the house. The right hon. gentleman conceives that I
expressed an opinion that war was probable. I may have
said so inadvertently, just as the right hon. gentleman
stated that he did not think peace utterly hopeless, while
the tenor of his argument was quite the other way. What
I meant to say was that there was a general opinion on the
Continent that war was likely, but I endeavoured to ad
duce reasons why, in my opinion, the Sovereigns con-
cerned were too wise to do anything of the sort.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I do not rise to find fault with the
Address just proposed—on the contrary, I have heard her
Majesty's Speech with great pleasure ; nor shall I think it
necessary to enter into any of the questions which we
may have to consider hereafter. Tho right hon. gentleman.
has told us that the papers with regard to the Charles et
Gc orges will be laid on the table, and his opinion is, that
when we have read them we shall agree that the conduct of
her Majesty's Government redounds to their credit, and
that it was of the most friendly character towards Portugal.
I shall read those papers with the most perfect impartiality,
and I shall be glad if I can come to the ame conclusion as
the right hon. gentleman. Neither do I wish to enter into
the question of the increase of our naval forces. I shat

listen to the statement of the First Lord of the Admiralty
on that subject, and if he makes out his case, I shall give
my vote in support of the proposition with great pleasure.
These are matters for future consideration, but there does
appear to me to be one matter which, if we are to discuss,
we must discuss to .day, and on which the right hon. gen-
tleman wishes to give the house as much satisfaction as
possible, and has felt that he could not give that satisfaction
in any complete form. He has told us, that with regard to
the breaking out of war between two great powers of Europe,
he should hesitate to say that war was probable; or that
peace was absolutely hopeless. These are expressions which
I have no doubt convey a right impression of the pre-
sent state of affairs, and they are not a little alarming. I
must say that I entirely agree with almost every word that
has fallen from my noble friend the member for Tiverton
upon this subject. I could have wished that in 181.5 some
other arrangement had bean made with regard to the north-
ern provinces of Italy. I could have wished that even of
late years Austria had thought it conducive to her inte-
rests to relinquish some of the territories which she pos-
sesses in northern Italy. But the treaty, fully made and
ratified, which gives her those territorial possessions is part
of the public law of Europe, and no ono can attempt to dis-
turb by force that territorial arrangement without commit-
ting an offence against the public law of Europe, and, of
course, without deep injury to the peace of Europe. There-
fore, I should hope, with the right hon. gentleman, that no
such wanton violation of that treaty will be committed.
(Hear.) But if an aggression were to be made for the pur-
pose of aggrandisement—if France were to have territories
added to her, and Sardinia also was to increase her posses-
sions, that would only make the aggression more odiousg than
the merely wanton violation of a treaty. I have 'always
taken a very deep interest in the independence and free-
dom of Italy; but I cannot say that I think that the cause
of Italian freedom and independence would be promoted by
such a war as appears to be in contemplation. (Hear.) In
the old days of the Whig Club there was a toast which used
frequently to be given,—" The:Cause of Civil and Religious
Liberty all over the World." When Mr. Canning became
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, he changed his seat
from Liverpool to Harwich, and he went down to Harwich
and presided at a dinner, and the toast which he gave was,
"The Cause of Civil and Religious Liberty all over the
World." I also am for the cause of civil and religious liberty
all over the world, but I cannot for the life of me see how
that cause would be promoted by any such aggression as is
now spoken of. (Hear, hear.) We have no right to criti-
cise the form of government which is adopted in a neigh-
bouring nation. The people of France by the value which
they set on peace, and by the prevalent opinion which is
now said to be almost universal, that peace ought to be pre-
served, show their estimation of the condition in which
they now are, and it is not for us to quarrel-with them as
to their form of government. But if that government is to
make an invasion upon another country, with the view
of improving the form of government in that country.
then we have a right to ask whether the freedom and inde-
pendence of that country will be promoted by such a pro-

ceeding. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, for-'all these reasons I
should deprecate, as an infraction of the peace of Europe, as
one of the very worst of examples that could be set, and as
tending to shake men's confidence in all treaties tip= which
the present stability of the peace of Europe is founded, any
such war as is now spoken of. But we must not attempt—and
we should gain no advantage for the cause ofpe,ace, no advan.-
tage kir the future welfare of Italy or of Europe, by endeavour-
ing to do so—to blind our eyes to those serious evils and mis-
fortunes which from time to time have been inflicted upon
Italy. From the very first year of the Signature of the treaty
of 1815 Austria attempted to govern the whole of Italy. She
early interfered to prevent the King of the TWo Sicilies
from introducing into his kingdom institutions based upon
principles different from those which prevailed in Austria ;
and when, in 1821, the Neapolitiah people attempted to
improve their institutions, and to have a representative
assembly, which Lord Colchester, a retired Speaker of
this house, declared to be remarkable for its decorum and
moderation, what was done ? Why an Austrian army was
marched to Naples, and 40,000 troops were placed in that
kingdom to prevent the people from having that constitu-
tion and those laws which they deemed beSt. Lord Castle-
reagh upon that occasion, in the name of the British
Government, declared this fact—which was a sort ofprotest
—that the British Government could not approve the prin-
ciple upon which that invasion took place. (Hear, hear.)
Again, when the people of Parma, who were suffering at
that time under the worst form of government; the worst
kind of aristocracy, and the worst class of clergy that were
to be found in any part of Europe, endeavoured to improve
their position, 12,000 Austrian troops were marched into
the country to prevent the people from improving their'
institutions. Again, in 1831, there was a similar kind of
interference. Advice was, no doubt, given to the Pope,
as has been said, but at the same time forcible means were
used. In 1848 the people of Tuscany, in the general
confusion and fury that prevailed upon the Continent,
became discontented with their very mild Government,
and established a Republic; but
.they had not had a Re-
public long before they themselves repented of their haste
and of their revolution, and overset the Republican Govern-;
ment and restored again the authority of the Grand Duke.
Here, then, was the example of a people who of their own
accord wished to revert to that mild form of govern-
, ment which they found was most consistent with their
happiness and prosperity; but that wasn't enough—not a
bit of it. A great Austrian division was marched into
Tuscany, and kept there some years, for no purpose
of necessity, but to insult that very mild and , docile
people with the spectacle of a foreign force domineering
over them. (Hear, hear.) And now again with regard
to Central Italy, of which the right hon. gentleman has
spoken, be it observed that it is these interferences of
Austria which have excited the jealousy of France.' It is
useless for us to inquire why these great powers should
be jealous of one another, because we know that it is
and must be the case. Accordingly, in the early part of
Louis Philippe's reign a French force was sent to Ancona
to counterbalance the interference of Austria in other
parts of Italy. Again, in 1848, Austrian troops inter.
fered with the Government of the Legations, and a French
division was immediately sent to Rome, and captured
Rome, and according to the statement almost of every
official person in this country then representing France it
was done entirely because France did not choose Austria to
have the entire command and dominion over Italy. But the
jealousies of those two great Powers have resulted in
misery to the unfortunate people over whom that military
force has imposed a government which is most distaste-
ful to them. (Hear.)- For, be it observed, the Emperor of
the French, not wishing to impose bad government, wrote
himself a letter, in which he pointed out what might im-
prove the condition of the Roman people,--the introduction
of the Code Napoleon, secular administration, and other
provisions. But that advice was not taken. The Austrian.
Government is in many respects a very enlightened Govern-
ment ; but it is not the Austrian Government at Bologna
and Ancona, but it is the Austrian forces and the French
forces which impose upon that country about the very worst
form of government that any country ever had. Those who
doubt this may consult various works describing what has
been the case with the Papal Government. Amon., others,
there is one very inttrestini, andamusing work by the pre-
sent Attorney-General for Leland. (Hear.) He travelled in
Italy, and he is not content with a superficial view, but he
gives you parts of the code of the Roman State, and he points
out how inconsistent those provisions are with anything like
justice and freedom. I have heard myself the way in which
every attempt at improvement is frustrated. They said at
one time " Let us have a secular 'c.overnment, and let the
ecclesiastical officers be replaced by secular officers." Well,
secular officers were sent to them, but they were men so
ill-calculated to create confidence, and so entirely without
character, that the poor people said—" Let us have the
priests back again, or let us have a cardinal, or anything
in preference to these people." Thereupon it was argued
that they were not in favour of a secular government. In
the same way it was said the people did not want municipal
institutions. Before the French Revolution there were numi-
cipal institutions. The people very much governed them-
selves. The French destroyed all these municipal institu-
tions, but they put in their place a good administration of
justice, and what is called an enlightened despotism. Since
1852 they.have had neither municipal institutions nor an en.
lightened despotism. They have every kind of corruption
and oppression. If persons are required to pay allegiance
they should receive protection from the Government, and
in what respect is protection more required than in the
administration of justice ? It is one of the first objects
of government that there should be justice between man
and man; that criminal justice should be fairly admini-
stered ; that civil justice should be had without corruption;
but I happened to be reading, I think last night, a descrip-
tion of the Roman Government by a noble friend of
mine, a member of the other House of Parliament,
Lord Broughton, and, as his description is con-
tained in a very few words, perhaps the house will allow
me to read it. This is his description of a Governrnet, let
it be recollected, that for the last ten years has been carried
on by the aid of foreign forces. Lord Broughton says,—
" If under this theocracy there were a tolerably impartial
administration of justice—if tlie lives, persons, and proper-
ties of the citizens were secured by any contrivance it would
be no great hardship to submit to the anomaly of receiving
laws front the altar, instead of the throne. But the reverse
is notoriously the case, and there is scarcely a single prin-
ciple of wise regulation acted upon or recognised in the
Papal States."
Again, he says :
" The first principles of criminal jurisprsulsmcs seem as
much forgotten or unknown as if the Frenc.ll code had never
been the law of the land ; a secret proe,ess, a trial by one
judge and a sentence by another, prei.racted imprisonment,
disproportioncd judgments, deferral and disgusting punish-
ments, all tend to defeat the ev;ids of justice and to create a
sympathy with the culprit rather than a reverence fur the
law

I read two years ago in this house a statement,, on good
authority, that the confessions of several persons accused
of crimes could not be taken, because they were con-
fessions made under torture. This is the usual adminis-
tration of justice. Can you wonder, then, that a people
thus governed by means of foreign forces have been impa-
tient with that Government, and can you wonder that they
would resort to any extremity, that they would look to any
resources, rather than continue in their present state ? But
what is the remedy ? The right hon. gentleman, if I under-
stand him right, says the advice has been given, no doubt
with the most benevolent intention—viz., that Austria and
France should frame measures, should point out how jus-
tice should be administered, and how the government should
be carried on. Well, this is all very good advice. But
there is one plan better than any of these, and that is that
the people should be allowed to settle the law for them-
selves. (Cheers.) I remember reading a pamphlet some
time ago on Italy. It was written by Signor Farini, whose
" History of the Papal States" was translated by my right
hon. friend the member for the University of Oxford, who
I wish were here on this occasion—(hear)—because there
is no man whose voice has been raised so powerfully on
behalf of Italy. Well, Signor Farini said this—he had
• been reading the Treaty of Paris—" I observe that by this
treaty the people of Moldavia and Wallachia are to be
allowed to meet to consider their own form of government.
Why should not we have the same thing ? (Hear,
hear.) Why should not the • people of Romagna meet
and declare what are the laws under which they wish to
live ?" (Hoar, hear.) It seems that Signor Farini was
perfectly right in that suggestion, and you have here, in
this very Queen's Speech, a declaration that the Assemblies
of these Danubian Principalities—these Rouman States, if
you choose to call them so—have met and settled their own
laws. Whether these will be good laws or not they will
undoubtedly be laws which are fitting for the people of
those provinces. I am convinced that the people of Cen-
tral Italy—a people who for five centuries have boon glori-
ous in literature, a people who have been enlightened dur-
ing these five centuries, and who are, therefore, far
superior to those persons in the Danubian Princi-
palities—if the foreign forces were withdrawn, if provision
were made, as provision could easily be made by the
Catholic Powers of Europe (with which arrangement the
Protestant Powers have nothing to do) for the furnish-
ing of any contingent forces to secure the personal
security of the Pope in Rome— I am convinced that
such a people would soon settle such laws for their
own goverinnent as would produce contentment and pw-
spoity. Let the people of Bologna, let the people of
Romagna, frame laws for themselves, and I believe the
difficulty of Italy would be almost entirely solved. (Hear,
hear.) I believe there would be no need of this bloody
war—this conflict of armies, which will give nothing to
their freedom, and which will, I am afraid, not add much
to their independence. (Hear, hear.) I agree with the
right hon. gentleman, with my noble friend, and with the
whole house, in hoping that no such dreadful calamity as
war will come upon Europe. I cannot believe that there
is any sufficient cause for it. I cannot believe that there is
any necessity for it. You have said in the Treaty of Paris,
and said most wisely, that there shall be no interference in
the Danubian Principalities, no interference in Servia by
any foreign troops, unless all the contracting Powers of
Europe are consenting parties to that interference. Now,
why should wo not say that with regard to the whole state
of Italy—that neither in the States of the Church, nor in
Tuscany, nor in Naples, shall there be any interference by
a foreign force unless the Powers of Europe aro parties to
that interference. I cannot believe that any plan that can
be framed by the Austrian Government, or by the French
Government, for the government of the Papal States, will
have any success, bcause the Papal Government has
talent and cunning enough to defeat and evade any new
provisions. (Hear, hear.) I quite agree with the right
honourable gentleman in all that he said as to the French
alliance. There is Igo alliance so valuable to this coun-
try. I believe the disposition of the Emperor of the
French is friendly to this country. I have never seen
anything in his foreign affairs that has indicated
hostility to this country. I think there is nothing
so desirable for the people of Great Britain all the
people of France, who live so close to each other, and whose
manufactures are so different, as to cultivate that alliance
and to entertain feelings of amity and respect for one ano-
ther. (Hear, hear.) I trust, therefore, that the course of
prosperity which Europe appears to be entering upon will
not be interrupted. There is another subject which the
right lion gentleman touched upon somewhat tenderly, and
which appeared just at the end of the Speech from the
Throne. It certainly appears to me as if her Majesty's
Ministers had gone through all the topics upon which they
thought Parliament would expect to be addressed, and
then that some member of the Cabinet said, " Is there
nothing forgotten ? We have not left out Mexico, have
we ? (Laughter.) There is a passage about China and
Japan. I cannot think of anything that is omitted." But
at last some ingenious member of the Cabinet perhaps said,
" There is one subject forgotten—that is the reform of
Parliament ; we must put that in." The right hen. gentle-
man seemed as unwilling to touch on that subject here as
the Cabinet were in putting it into the Speech. Heaven
knows how it has fallen into their charge. How came
they to be Reformers ? How they will answer that ques-
tion when it is put by the country, I cannot say. As the
right hon. gentleman the member for Radnor has properly
said, " Before you ask for a reform in Parliament 3 ou
ought to point out the evils which you want to redress."
There are some evils in the system of Parliamentary repre-
sentation which I wish to redress. I think there are vast
numbers of people who are not electors, but who are well
entitled by their honesty to be admitted to electoral rights.
I believe that their being admitted to these rights will give
them a greater sense of their stake in the constitution, and

will strengthen:the basesof the constitution. Ido not be-
lieve this extension will shake any of the. institutions of
this monarchical Constitution, with its aristocracy and its
Establishbd_Church. I do not believe' the admisSion
of
those persons who are fitted to .exercise. the, franchise will
tend to injure any of the institutions of the country.
(Cheers.) I believe the mass of the country. in general are
of the opinion of our forefathers before us;---of the opinion of
Burke, F 4, and Pitt-that the institutions 'of this country
have given the people as great a share of liberty and happi-
ness as was ever enjoyed under any institutions which
human wisdom has advised. (Cheers.) That, no doubt,
was the opinion of Mr. Burke, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Pitt and
they were no fools. I believe such to be the opinion of the
country in general, and I wish to see those benefits extended.
But I am at a loss to understand the hesitation in this mat-
ter. The right lion. gentleman " first tried the halter, then
travers' d the cart"—(a laugh)—he seemed unwilling to
apply
the noose or to fix the time. I don't want to hurry the Govern-
ment on this subject. I think it is quite fair that the First
Lord of the Admiralty should say, "We want to increase
our naval force;" hut I don't see that there is any subject
which the Government intend to bring forward that will
furnish them with any excuse for delay in this matter. We
had under, consideration last year the great subject of India,
which was enough to absorb the attention of any Govern-
ment, fraught as -the circumstances were with danger to
our whole empire there ; but there is now no such excuse
for procrastination. If the Government have made up their
minds to, introduce a Reform Bill, let them lay it on the
table. (Cheers.) I will give no opinion upon a measure of
that kind until I see what it proposes to do. I can under-
stand that it is not the sort of task for which they are
fitted. (A laugh.) It had been said, in reference to this
question, they had never tried to play on the fiddle before,
but there was no reason why they should not do so as well
as anybody else. (A laugh.) There is every disposition
'in this house to wait their time; but they must not be
putting off the subject. My hon. friend behind me (Mr.
Bright), I am afraid, will hardly be able to restrain his fin=
patience. (Laughter.) But really it is the business of a
Government to. undertake great questions of this nature ;
they have given a pledge in this matter and they are bound
to perform it.
Sir J'. PAK INGTON—After the discussion to which
the subject before the house has given rise, commencing
with the very able and to her Majesty's Government ,
not unsatisfactory speech of the noble lord the member for
Tiverton, I had not intended to address the house but for
the remarks which had fallen from the noble lord the mem-
ber for the city. The noble lord seems to think that her
Majesty's Government have treated this great question of
Parliamentary Reform with a, great want of proper respect.
He appears to doubt even the sincerity of the Government
with regard to legislating on this subject, and complains
that amore prominent position has not been given to it in
the Speech from the Throne. He seems convinced that it
must only have been by an afterthought that it found its
way into the speech at all. We are deeply sensible of the
reproach which the noble lord attaches to us, and we natu-
rally.look round to see what consolation we can find under
the circumstances, and what precedents, if any, there are for
the course we have pursued. I have now in my hand the
Speech of her Majesty on the opening of the session of 1852,
when, if I remember rightly, the noble lord was at the head of
the Government. I find that Speech refers to a great number
of topics, of more or less interest, connected with the govern-
mentof the country, and then at the very end of it, and nottill
then—(cheers)—adverts to the question of Parliamentary
Reformin these terms :—" It appears to me that-this is a
fitting time for calmly considering whether it may not be
advisable to make such amendments in the act of the late
reign relating to the representation of the Commons in Par-
liament as may be deemed calculated to carry into more
complete effect the principles on which that law is founded."
(Hear, hear.) So that, whatever error we may have com-
mitted in the position which has been assigned to the topic
in her Majesty's Speech relating to a reform of the repre-
sentation in this house, we have at least the consolation of
knowing that we are supported by the precedent and ex-
ample of the noble lord himself—(cheers and laughter)—
seeing that he assigned to that subject precisely the same
position in the Speech which we have given to it. I hope
I have removed from the noble lord's mind the ground of
complaint he has made against us on this point ; and I hope
at sonic not distant day we shall equally remove from his
mind any doubts he may have as to the sincerity of the Go-
vernment in dealing with this question. (Hear, hear,)
The motion for an Address was then agreed to, and a
Committee was appointed to prepare it.
The house then adjourned.

EAST INDIA AND CHINA

MAILS.

SOUTHAMPTON, THURSDAY.
The heavy portion of the above mails reached
here this morning at three o'clock, by the Penin-
sular and. Oriental Company's steamer Ceylon,
Captain Evans. They were in charge of Lieut.
Bridges, Admiralty Agent.
During the voyage the Ceylon experienced fine
weather in the Mediterranean ; north .easterly winds
along the coast of Spain and Portugal ; across the
Bay of Biscay and up Channel very strong north-
wssterly winds, with heavy sea.
She brings 31 first-class passengers, 11 second,
and 6 children.

Her latest dates are :—Alexandria, Jan. 21 ;
Malta, Jan. 24 ; Gibraltar, Jan. 28.
The freight consists of 1,314 bales of silk, 20
packages elephants' teeth, 3 cases precious stones,
value £855, and 43 boxes of oranges.
The following ships were at Alexandria on the
21st of January :—United States' frigate Mace-
donia, French screw steamer Chaptal, Royal Yacht
Squadron's yacht Ermina, and usual Egyptian
fle

At Malta on the 24th.—Her Majesty's ships
Marlborough, Centurion, Euryalis, Caradoc,
Scourge, Hibernia, Hearty, Boxer, Tartarus, and
Medina, and the Russian three-decker Cesarewich.
The Himalaya was at Gibraltar, and the Pm;
arrived there at 10 p.m. on the 25th of January,
having experienced very boisterous weather during
the passage, particularly in the Channel and across
the Bay of Biscay.
On the 24th several Neapolitan Government
steamers arrived, with the political offenders lately
amnestied by King Ferdinand. They were being
conveyed to Cadiz, front whence they will be exiled,
according to decree, to America.
Exchange at Gibraltar, 90 days, NI to 501.