The Sun.
London, England, 1861-04-20 00:00:00

CONVICT REFORM IN IRELAND.

On the motion for the adjournment of the house at its
rising until Monday,

Mr. W. EWART inquired of the Secretary of State for
the Home Department whether the system introduced by
Captain Crofton into Ireland for the discipline and reform
of convicts would be taken intc the consideration of the
Government.

Mr. CLIVE said that any advantage resulting from the
reform in question by Capt. Croftm would be considered by
the Government.

INDIA.

Mr. LAYARD asked the Secretary of State for India
whether a bill had been introduced into the Legislative
Council of India to enforce contracts for the delivery of
agricultural produce ? He expressed pleasure at seeing the
right hon. gentleman (Sir C. Weed) in his place. He be-
lieved the question to which he drew the attention of the
house was one of extreme importance, and if he was
correctly informed, our countrymen in India were
guilty of the most reprehensible conduct. Last
year there was an outbreak in Bengal in consequence of
the proceedings relative to the question of indigo cultiva-
tion in that presidency. A bill was then introduced
into- the Indian legislature, which rendered the breach
of contract in the cultivation of indigo punishable
by fine or three months' imprisonment. The cultivation of
indigo was promoted by the system of advances, and the
effect of this system enabled the planters to act in
the most oppressive manner towards the ryots, who
were the owners of the soil. An inquiry had been
made into the subject, and 4,000 answers vere obtained
from different witnesses who were qualified to give correct
information, who had made a report, from the perusal of
which he had risen with mingled feelings of horror,
indignation, and dismay which he could not ex-
press. (Hear, hear.) The law in question was en-
trusted to young magistrates in many cases, and it armed
the planters with a power which they exercised most ex-
tensively, and the consequence was that numbers of the
unfortunate tyots were imprisoned or fined for a failure in
the fulfilment of their =tracts. The hon. member then
read extracts from the statements of Mr. John Peter
Grant, Lieutenant• General of India, and other resident
authorities in India to show that the result of the system
was t.) inflict the grossest injustice, and he contmded that
unless some alteration took place there were grounds for
apprehending an outbreak in Southern Bengal. In re-
gard to this act there was great want of faith towards
the natives„ for when it was first passed it was with the
distinct understanding that it was to continue only for six
months. However, it was reintroduced last March, and he
strongly condemned this policy, which had only fot its
object the benefit of a -few planters in Southern Bengal,
and was calculated to render this country hateful to the in-
habitants.
Mr. VANSITTART asked the Secretary of State for
India whether his attention had been drawn to the report
of the Indigo Commission, with the minutes of evidence
taken before them, and appendix, dated Calcutta, April
27th, 1860; and, if so, whether he has taken any
steps to carry out the recommendations contained
therein. Ho said he had gone carefully through this
report, and contended that the planters were exonerated
from the charges brought against them. In his opinion
the conduct of Mr. Grant was most objectionable, for he
threw the whole weight of his authority into the scale
against the planters. He said that in many cases the ryots
were a money getting body, and were in many cases ab-
sentees, and they induced their .fellow-ryots to
act in such a manner that the planters were
unable t 3 meet their liabilities, and their pro-
perties were sold. He could not see the policy of acting
in a hostile manner towards the planters in India, to whom
the zemindars and ryots were indebted for much improve-
ment, and this country in a considerable degree for the
maintenance of its power in that country. He referred to
the testimony of several competent authorities in India to
show that the planters were the friends of improvement
and progress, and that instead of being open to censure
theAwere entitled to the greatest praise.
Mr. KINNAIRD asked the Secretary of State for India
whether he had received a copy of the correspon-
dence regarding the cultivation of indigo, between the
Government of India and the Government of Bengal,
which tcok place between July and November,
1860 ; also of the correspondence connected with the
issue of the Indigo Proclamation, dated September, 1860;
and, whether he had any objection to lay the same on the
table of the house. He defended the statements of the hon.
member (Mr. Layard), and he expressed a hope that
the house and the Government would not blind themselves
t 3 the emergency that had arisen in India in reference
to the question. The facts stated by his hon. friend (Mr.
Layard) could be proved, and it could be shown that the
cultivation of indigo was impolitic and oppressive. He
trusted the papers for which he asked would be produced,
and that justice would be done to the unfortunate ryots.
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE referred to the debates on the
subject in the Indian Legislatiye Council, to show that the
statements of the hon. member for Southwark (Mr. Layard)
were not justified by facts. He also passed a eulogium on
the planters, who, he argued, were not inferior to any other
body of her Majesty's subjects,
Mr. H. SEYMOUR said that the greatest injury would
be inflicted on India and this country by the expulsion of
the planters ; and for that reason he felt bound to differ
with his hon. friend (Mr. Layard).
Sir C. WOOD said that the majority of the papers ap-
plied for were already on the table of the house. He
agreed in what had been said in praise of the
planters, but at the same time he agreed that there
was truth in the statement of the hon. member for
Southwark. He did not approve of the renewal
of the act in question, and he did not think
there should be special legislation in regard to
indigo,cultivation
of which was impolitic.
condemnedlle
the
principle
of contracts in regard
to the cultivation of indigo, and believed that in enforcing
the force
that system great injustice was inflicted ; bed-ridden, blind,
and deaf ryots having been imprisoned for breach
of contract, which, from their condition, .they could
not fulfil. He believed a very serious crisis had
arisen in Lower Bengal, and he regretted extremely
the introduction of the bill alluded to into the Legislative
Council of India, as he considered it a great mistake, no
case having been made out to justify the Legislature in in
terfering in regard to the cultivation of indigo in India.
ATTENDANCE OF VOLUNTEERS AT
ELECTIONS.

Gen. PEEL said—The question I am about to put to the
noble lord the member for Tiverton arises out of a report
which I have seen in the newspapers respecting the election
for the borough of Tiverton. The report stated that the elec-
tion was fixed for 2 o'clock at the Town-hall, but that long
before that hour the streets were crowded, and they were
enlivened by the Tiverton Rifle Corps, and Lord Palmerston
was escorted by them from his hotel, the Three Tuns, to the
hustings at the Town-hall. My object in asking this question
is to prevent a precedent being established upon what, in
my opinion, was a very novel and most improper proceed-
ing ; and I hope to hear from the noble lord an assurance
that orders will be issued from the War-office to prevent, in
future, the appearance of volunteers at elections. (Hear.)
I, myself, should be prepared to go much further, and to
say that with the exception of drill and exercise, and every-

thing connected with them, I should like to see the volun.
teers prevented from appearing in arms without the consen

of the lords-lieutenant of their different counties. (Hear.

I think it ought to be left to the volunteers themselves to

decide to whom military honours were to be paid, but I
think the house will agree with me that their appearance at
elections is undesirable and improper. (Hear.) We know
the objections which exist to the appearance of regular

troops at elections; those objections are much stronger with
regard to volunteers, who might be actuated by local and
party feelings, and who moreover were not subject to the
discipline of regular troops, which can alone render it safe

allow the presence of armed men in crowded assemblies.
;Hear.) I may be told that this was not a contested elec-

ion, and that the only object of the volunt3ers was to pay

a mark of respect to a very distinguished individual, and
whose whose connection with Tiverton was a great honour to it ;

•
and if this had not been an election,'Eo far from complaining
I should be one of the very first to approve of what they had
done; and I can assure the noble lord that it is out of no
disrespect to him I make these remarks. (Hear.) But to

say that an election is not to be a contested election before

;he question has-been put by the returning officer was

hardly possible. How do we know that Mr. Roweliffe may

not have been intimidated ? (Hear.) I own that a man
of his nerve is not very likely to be intimidated, but still a
man of less strong nerves might have been intimidated, and
felt unable tl act up to what he considered to be his duty

at that opportunity. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord had
put it to tae volunteers whether the army was to be

reduced, and was met with loud cries of " No, no."
(Laughter.) Ido not say that much harm was occa-

sioned by the presence of the volunteers on that occasion,

but I wish t) prevent a recurrence of such an event. I

:rust Cie house will agrce with me that tais is a question

which ought not to be passed over in silence—(hear)—and
I hope some steps will be taken to prevent its recurrence.
(1-Icar.) If the volunteers have the right to support one

man they have the right to support another ; and what
would be the case supposing a popular colonel of a volunteer
force were t) become a candidate in a locality with which

he and his corps were connected ? (Laughter.) I mean no

disrespect by these remarks to the noble lord—(hear)—l
mean no disrespect to the volunteers. (Hear, hear.) No

man can feel more interest than I do in the volunteer move-

ment, because I am responsible for having reeommended
the acceptance of their services, which had been refused by
the prr69114 Cl9Yermilt, but I certaiplY wi44 t 9 geetliCia

relieved from occupying that position which they occupied
at the late election for the borough of Tiverton. The ques-
tion I wish to put is to ask the First Lord of the Treasury
if it be true that at the recent election for Tiverton he was
escorted to the hustings by the Tiverton Volunteer Rifles,
and if it is the intention of the Government to sanction the
attendance of volunteers with their arms at elections ?
Lord PALMERSTON, who on rising was received with
cheers, said—l am sure, sir, I have no ground of complaint
nor have the Tiverton volunteers any reason to complain of
the manner in which the right hon. and gallant gentleman
has asked this question. (Hear.) I quite admit that as a
general principle it is quite improper that armed bodies
should participate in elections. I do certainly remember
that on the occasion of an election for Sligo some few years
ago the police were put in confinement, the militia were or.
deredout of the town, and the regular tro3ps were brought
in merely to insure the freedom of election. (Laughter.)
That was an exceptional case. The statement which the
hon. and gallant officer has made is quite true. The
fact is, that when I was going from the hotel to the
court-house I found that the Tiverton Volunteers, who are
a fine body of men—and it would do the hon. and gallant
gentleman's soldier-heart good to see them, both on account
of the fineness of the men, their precision of step and accu-
rate movements, wished to accompany me to the court-
house with their band ; and I really thought that as there
was no contest and no probability of one, it would be a piece
of political prudery on my part to refuse, and I therefore
accepted the honour which they proposed to do me. (Hear,
and laughter.) Now as to intimidation, the right hon. and
gallant gentleman says that even Mr. Rowcliffe might be a
candidate, although as far as he knows he was not likely t 3
be intimidated. But I say, notwithstanding our occasional
sparring matches, he is a free-torn Briton—
" Si fractus illabatur orbis
Impavidurn ferient ruina,,"
—(cheers)—and that he was the last man t be intimidated
by the Tiverton Volunteers. Well, that was the case. I
should state, however, that although the volunteers marched
with me to the court-house, they went and deposited their
arms in the usual place, and appeared at the election, though
in uniform, as part of the unarmed population of the town.
After the election they marched with me back to the hotel,
and in the evening when I left the town they insisted on
accompanying me on the first stage—(a laugh)—and while
I was waiting for the train at the Tiverton Junction station,
they performed admirably several military movements, and
gave me two volleys. (Laughter.) With reference to the
last question of the right hon, and gallant gentleman, I
believe it is the intention of Lord Herbert to send a circular
letter to the lords-lieutenant of counties, stating that it is
not advisable that the volunteers should take part in any
way in elections. (Cheers.)
SALES OF LAND IN NEW ZEALAND.

Mr. HOPE wished to ask the Under-Secretary of State
for the Colonies whether it was intended to endeavour to
institute a tribunal in New Zealand to decide upon conflict-
ing claims of natives in cases of proposed sales of land by
them to the Government.
Mr. C. FORTESCUE said there was no native tribunal
in New Zealand, and no English court which took cogni-
sance of those transactions. It was true there were Eng-
lish courts of law in New Zealand, but they found them-
selves incompetent to take notice of those sales of land. The
practice therefore had been that the Government acted by
direct negotiations with the native owners, proceeding in
each case by the prevailing custom of each particular dis •
trict. It was a course which had been attended with very
great success, and by it a very considerable amount of
native land had been secured for the purposes of the colo •
fists, without leading to any serious difficulty, until those
unfortunate circumstances occurred which had lately been
taking place. It was a course which had been justified both
by the letter and the spirit of the treaty of Waitangi, and
also by the necessity of the case. The fact was, there did
not exist any such native titles as admitted of being treated
by any uniform or well-defined code of law. The condition
of the native people had presented an insurmountable ob-
stacle to the establishment or the working of any court of
justice to decide upon their land claims. The natives of
New Zealand were to a great extent merely nominal sub-
jects of the Crown, and in many districts they had remained
practically independent. So much so that the small por-
tion of them who were unfortunately engaged in hostilities
against her Majesty's troops could not fairly be said to be
in the position of rebels. (Hear, hear.) He would admit
that for some years past it had been strongly felt both by
the Government of New Zealand and by the Government
at home that the existing system was unsatisfactory ; but
the difficulties which had arisen were not t:11 lately difficul-
ties between the Government as purchasers and the natives
as sellers. It had been felt, however, that the communis-
tic tenure of the land—for it was always held by commu-
nities—was extremely detrimental to the improvement of
the It led to indolence and demoralisation of
every kind ; and it was, therefore, most desirable to in-
troduce a better system. In 1858 a bill was sent home by
the Colonial Government, called " The Native Territorial
Rights Act ;" but after mature deliberation the Govern-
ment of the day—in which the right honourable baronet
the member for Hertfordshire (Sir E. B. Lytton) was Secre-
tary of State for the Colonies—decided that they could not
give it their assent. Last year a bill, with similar objects,
was brought in by the treble duke (the Duke of Newcastle) ;
but the House of Co.mmons was not disposed to entertain
that measure. Within the last month a third bill had been
received by her Majesty's Government from the legislature
of New Zealand for the purpose of creating native titles,
similar to those that would have been created under the bill
of last session. The object of that measure was to enable
the Governor by and with the advice and consent of gentle-
men of the highest authority in New Zealand to examine
claims, to grant certificates of titles, and to induce the na-
tives if possible to submit their disputos to the arbitration
of some regular tribunal. At the same time he must can-
didly say he did not believe that any such tribunal would
have sufficed to prevent the recent unfortunate occurrences.
The entire conviction of the Governor throughout the
whole transaction had been that William King never made
any claim of any sort to the land that would have been ad-
mitted by any authority, whether by commissioners, or by
a land com t, or by any other legal authority. Their convic-

tion was that this chief, King, had not intended to make
any such elaipi. If he had, it would have been investigated
as all such claims had invariably been. It was clear to the
government that the position which King had assumed was
that of a native potentate who disputed the sovereign claims
of the British crown. The authority of the Government
over the colony was very limited. The power of internal
regulation and of taxation had been given up to the local
legislature; and there remained little to the crown beyond
the difficult and invidious task of extinguishing native
rights, and handing over the land so obtained as waste
land, to be disposed of by the local government. No doubt
it would be a great gain if means could be devised of pre-

venting for the future the bloody disputes which occurred
from time to time between the native owners and those
unfortunate differences which they had lately had with the
Government. If, however, this war should teach them that
their wisdom lay in submitting themserves absolutely to
the Queen's authority, he had no doubt that it would in the
end prove to be of the greatest benefit to the natives them-
selves. (Hear, hear.)
Lord it. CECIL thought the Under Secretary of
State (Mr. Fortescue) had misunderstood the drift of his
hon, friend's question, namely, the institution of a com•
petent tribunal in New Zealand to decide upon the con-
flicting claims of natives where land \vas proposed to be
sold to the Government. He (Lord It. Cecil) contended
that the course pursued by the Government in recent
cases was of such a character as t) prevent the natives

having confidence in the Government. What was wanted
was te establishment of a Court of Arbitration, in which
the natives could repose confidence. (Hear, hear.)

THE SPANISH PROTESTANTS.
Sir R. PEEL was anxious not to let the evening pass
without making some remarks upon the statement which
the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) had made with reference to
the communications that he had received from the Spanish
government. He did not know whether he had accurately
gathered what the noble lord said, but if ho had, he felt

sure that the noble lord had rather spoken what had been

put into his mouth rby int3restod persons than given ex•

pression to his own sentiments.

Lord J. RUSSELL—I gave no opinion at all; I merely
stated facts.

Sir R. PEEL—That made it a great deal worse. (A
laugh.) There were men in Spain who were persecuted
solely on the ground of their religious faith. He (Sir R.
Peel) had himself presented petitions, very numerously
signed, from different parts of the country, urging upon
her Majesty's government to take some steps by the exercise
of their influence to procure the release of those men who
were thus suffering persecution. (Hear.) The noble lord
stated on a former occasion that he declined to tike that

course on account of the sensitiveness of the Spanish Go-
vernment. The noble lord said that the Spanish Govern
ment were most anxious—he (Sir R. Peel) believed the
noble lord said that Marshal O'Donnell and also the Mini-

ster of Justice were most anxious—to give every liberty to
the ekercise cf political rights in that country; but the fact
was that these persons who call themselves Spanish Pro-
testants were men who held socialist principles, and were
about to attempt to establish a republic in Spain. But the
indictment against these men stated that they were being
punished solely on account of their religious conviction?.
It was no doubt extremely easy for the noble lord to have
this clever answer put into his mouth. But why did not

the Spanish Government try these poor people ? (Hear.)
They were now treated worse than if they had been mur-

defers and thieves. They were called heretics solely on
account of their religious opinions, and on this ground
were excluded from all intercourse with their families. He

(Sir R. Peel) had letters from many of these people, which
if read would draw tears from the eyes of hon. memberi,
stating that they were positively dying, and praying that
the Government would bring them to trial. And these
persecutions were extending. (Hear.) At Seville some
20 or 30 men were taken up who had merely assembled to-
gether for the discussion of newspapers and pamphlets of
that kind. The rest were discharged, but two of them were
thrown into prison. These acts were an insult to the 19th

century. It was high time that the noble lords the mem•
hers for Tiverton and for London should, from their ante-
cedents on this quesron, show some spirit, and tell the
Spanish Government how they looked upou this subject.
They should, have the moral courage to tell the Spanish
Q9yerwent th,Ett this conduct was quit(' incompatible with

the liberal feelings of modern Europe. Until the other
day the Austrian Government was the most arbitrary Go-
vernment in Europe on religious questions. The concor-
dat made with Rome was supposed to be one of the most
extreme documents ever published in Europe ; but on the
Bth of April last the most complete liberty had been
given to the Protestant religion throughout the
Austrian dominions. Now here were the Spaniards con-
tinuing in this dreadful course of persecution, and the noble
lord got up in the House of Commons and pretended to say
that these men were suffering not from any question of faith,
but solely because they were connected with secret societies
whose principles were subversive of the authority of the
Government in Spain.
Jord J. RUSSELL (interposing) said he had never
stated that these men were suffering in consequence of their
belonging to secret societies ; nor did he say that the alle-
gation of belonging to secret societies was justly applicable
to these persons. What he had said was that the Spanish
Government declared they would have been glad to release
these men, who were imprisoned, as his hon. friend justly
remarked, in consequence of their not agreeing in the doe-
trines of the Roman Catholic faith, but that they could not
do so, because, since they were in prison, certain secret
societies had been discovered, who were endeavouring to
bring about the establishment of a republic in Spain. There
was no allegation that the persons imprisoned had them •
selves been members of secret societies.
Sir R. PEEL continued. Then why were these men not
brought to trial ? (Hear, hear.) The noble lord knew that
this was an allegation which was always brought against
men who did not conform to the established religion. He
could assure the noble lord, on the faith of these men, that
they were in no way connected with any political movement
in their country. He charged the Spanish Government with
the most direct perversion of the truth in saying that these
men were in any way connected with secret societies in
Spain. These poor men were suffering the most bitter
punishment ever inflicted on criminals of the worst descrip-
tion, and he hoped her Majesty's Government would act in
the matter as they did in 1853 and 1852, and endeavour to
represent to the Spanish Government that these persecu-
tions solely on account of religious principles, were wholly
incompatible with the feelings not only of this country, but
of the whole of Europe.
BRITISH CONSULS AT SHANGHAI AND JAPAN.
Col. SYKES rose to call attention to a consular notifi-
cation, dated Shanghai, Feb. 8, 1861, and to ask the Score-
tery of State for Foreign Affairs what circumstances had
occasioned this notification ; and to ask on whit grounds
the consul-general in Japan had abandoned his position at
the capital ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said that, before he adverted to the
questions put to him by his hon. friends who had last
spoken, he would advert to the answer which he had given
to a question put to him last evening (Thursday), respect-
ing the sums payable for the Chinese indemnity. He wished
to state, with regard to the sum which had been actually
received, and the sum which we were entitled to receive—
first, that he had ascertained the sum which had been ac-
tually received to be not £650,000, as he had stated, but
£212,000; and secondly, that the sum which we were en-
titled to receive was 2,000,000 taels, or £650,000. With re-
gard to the question of his hon. and gallant friend near
him (Colonel Sykes), it was quite sufficient to state that
Mr. Meadows, the consul at Shanghai, last year asked for
further assistance, and that the Government gave it. In
February last his health failed him, and he then said he
was not equal to the performance of the duties of the office,
and that he should confine himself to the mere routine
duties for the present, leaving to the second consul the
more active duties. He regretted that Mr. Meadows was
not in good health, because he was a most deserving officer,
and he, in common with his hon and gallant friend appre-
ciated his services. With regard to the statements which
his hon. and gallant friend had made, he would merely ob-
serve that they had belonged to the arrangements made
some time ago by which the Custom house duties were col-
lected by Europeans. It was supposed that such a system
would prevent a great many abuses which prevailed amongst
those in the service of the Chinese Government at the vari-
ous ports. Whether the arrangements had been completely
fulfilled he could not state at present ; but he should not
propose to put an end to them As to the anarchy which
was said t 3 prevail in some places in China, it did not sur-
prise him, because for many years past the Chinese empire
had been in a very weak state, and those in the administra •
tion of affairs had shown how feebly they managed them.
The British Government had not attempted to prevent it,
but they had endeavoured to prevent wrongs being com-
mitted against British subjects in the Chinese empire. He
could not discover what course his lion. and gallant friend
wished the Government to pursue. What they had done
was to acknowledge the existing Government of China, and
between that Government and the Taepings her Ma-
jesty's Government had remained neutral, but they had de-
fended Shanghai against an attack of the Taepings simply
because it contained the property of British subjects. They
had not defended, nor had any intention of defending, the
Chinese authority against the Taepings. (Hear.) His hon.
and gallant friend had also asked on what grounds the con-
sul-general in Japan had abandoned his position at the
capital. The reason for his doing so was contained in the
despatch which the consul had written and sent to the
British Minister of Japan, and which he (Lord J. Russell)
would have no objection to lay upon the table of the house.
The circumstances were shortly these :—For a considerable
time there had prevailed at Jeddo a system of intimidation
towards the foreign Ministers, and though not counte-
nanced by the Japan Government, yet they allowed it to
proceed, and in the end a servant of the French Minister
was murdered, and no redress could be obtained. Some time
afterwards the secretary of the American consul was mur••
dered, and when that took place, the foreign Ministers met,
and asked the Japan Government for redress, but none was
afforded to them. Nothing, in fact, was done, but when the
foreign Ministers proposed to attend the funeral procession
of the murdered secretary to the grave, the Japan Govern-
ment said it would very likely lead to a general massacre of
the foreign Ministers, and that they could not protect them.
Although that threat was held out, the foreign Ministers
did attend the funeral, and they subsequently held a meet-
hag for the purpose of considering the course which they
ought to pursue, and they asked that full protection should
be given to them and all persons trading at Jeddo.
The resolution was acted upon by the British, French, and
Russian ministers, and the Turkish consul, and they left
Jeddo, but the American consul did not agive in the resolu-
tion, and he remained at Jeddo. The Foreign Ministers
had not broken off relations with the Government of Japan
There had been no rupture of friendly relations, the Minis-
ters had simply removed themselves to a place where the
men-of-war would protect them from danger, and there
they would remain until relations should have been placed
on a more satisfactory footing. He had no objection to pro-
duce the papers, but he should prefer to wait for a time
longer for further accounts before doing so. (Hear.) He
observed that there was a question at the end of the paper as
to " whether he had received any information respecting the
case of a British subject, the owner of the cargo of the Mio
Teo, and the alleged injustice and injury to which ho had
been subjected, with the sanction of the Spanish authorities
of Poit Mahon, in the Island of Minorca." Now that was
a question entirely for the Spanish tribunals, and the law
officers of the Crown could not properly interfere in the pre-
sent stage of the business. He (Lord J. Russell) must take
notice of what had been said by the hon. baronet the mem..
ber for Tamworth with regard to the religious persecutions
of certain persons in Spain. He had merely stated 'what
were the allegations of the Spanish minister, and he begged
leave to remark that he did not attempt to justify all those
allegations. (Hear, hear.) The Spanish ,Minister never
said that those persons were not in prison, or that they were
connected with certain republican societies. Far from

But what he said was that they were persons who had been
condemned to a period of imprisonment for allowing a form
of religious worship, not authorised, in their houses. They
were not charged with being members of a secret society. It
was said by the Spanish minister that he should be glad to
give British subjects every kind of indulgence compatible
with tae law, and that he should also be glad to appeal to
the Crown for a pardon for those persons who were suffer-
ing from expressing their religious opinions; but at that

moment there were a number of religious societies scattered

over Spain which were connected with republican socie-
ties, and therefore the law must take its course.
That statement might be good or bad; he (Lord J. Rus•
sell) was merely responsible for stating that such were the

allegations of the Spanish Government: With regard to
the subject no one could for a momont doubt that, holding

the opinions he did, he must be in favour of religious
liberty, and opposed to religious intolerance. But at the

same time he could not instruct the agents of this country
to inculcate his views in every part of the world. (Hear,

hear.) He would refer to an incident which happened last
year, and from which he trusted the cause of rel gious
liberty was in some degree promoted. There were two

Governments in Mexico•—the Church Government and the

constitutional Government, and the Governments of
France, Spain, and Britain wished to mediate between
them. The Government of France did riot agree with him

because he would not recommend anything unless the
principle of religious liberty was acceded to. The consti-
tutional Government had established itself, and the prin-
ciple of religious liberty had been proclaimed. He should
have opposed everything tending to intolerance, and pro
meted the view of religious liberty for every man in Mexico
But with regard to the Spanish Government, they knew
well all the hon. baronet had recommended—viz., that he
should let them know the principles which the Government
_ _

of her Majesty professed, and that those which the Govern

ment of Spain sanctioned were wholly opposed to the feel.
ings of right thinking people in these enlightened times.
(Hear.) He stated this to a deputation which waited upon
him, and the Spanish Government knew what he then stated,
but if he were to make au offici ii representation, on the
subject the Spanish Government might say, " Our prin-
ciples may be right or wrong, but that is nothing to you,
we have a right t 9 mainhin our own laws and our own con-
stitution." There was an article contained in the Spanish
constitution which was quite repugnant to his feelings and
opinions, but, at the samo time he must use a certain de-
gree of discretion in treating with an independen. Govern-
ment. He begged the house to believe that if he did not
interfere actively en this subject it was not because he was
not in favour of religious liberty being fully practised
throughout the world. (Hear, bear.) In answer to the
question of the hon. member for Glasgow (Mr. Buchanan)
Ile yfiglad t 9 OfilrY9 that he had not keen al* t 9 00 411 Y

such correspondence as that to which he had called hilit
attention. If discovered he would lay it on the table.
Mr. BLAKE said the case to which he wished to call the
noble lord's attention was this : a Mr. Robinson freighted
a ship with a cargo from Constantinople to London, and
the vessel proceeded on her voyage and put into Malta fo
repairs. The captain subsequently went to Port Mahon,
in the island of Minorca, and induced the Spanish authori-
ties to determine that the cargo was in such a state that he
could not proceed on his voyage. The owner then sent an
employe to inquire into the matter, and he found the cargo
in a sound condition. No doubt the object of the delay in
not deciding the questions was to compel Mr. Robinson to
make terms with the captain, and under those circum•,
stances the Spanish authorities would reap very considere\Z`
ble benefit. The cargo had been detained five months, alid
no decision had yet been arrived at upon the subject. Re'
presentations were in February last made by Mr. Robinson
to the Foreign-office, and the noble lord gave an opinion
that he could not, under the circumstances interfere, but
he (Mr. Blake) thought the time had now arrived when
something might be done to induce the Spanish Govern-
ment to do justice between the parties, and especially, to
Mr. Robinson.

Lord J. RUSSELL said that if a further application were
made to the Foreign-office he would lay the case before the
legal advisers of the Government for their opinion. (Hear.)
THE DOCKYARD LABOURERS.
Mr. ANGERSTEIN called the attention of the Secret'STY
of the Admiralty to the wages of the dockyard labourers.
Lord C. PAGET said the pay of the established labourers
had not been reduced ; they still got Hs. a week, and the
superannuation system was a great boon to them. It well
only the junior class who were reduced to 135., and they
were eligible, by good conduct and steadiness, to be put on
the established list.

EVICTIONS IN IRELAND.
Mr. V. SCULLY asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland
whether he had yet received official information respecting
the recent eviction of 280 inhabitants from the lands of
Derryveagh, in the county of Donegal ; and whether it was
intended that the landlord who caused those evictions
should hold the commission of the peace ?
Mr. CARD WELL said he had received information of
what had occurred on the occasion to which his hon. friend
referred. The stipendiary magistrate, with a large force of
constabulary, was present in the district when 47 eject"
ments, involving in the whole 244 persons, were carried
into execution ; and what he learned was that the people
stood by calmly and saw most of their houses unroofed, and
that while some of them expressed their intention to
emigrate, others said they would seek relief in the work-
house. The hon. gentleman asked whether the relieving
officer received a note under the statute to be present, and
whether he discharged his duty. He had directed an
inquiry into that part of the case, and so far as his informa-
tion went the relieving officer did receive the statutory
note, but he had n,t yet received information as to what
passed with regard to the relief of the people under the poor
law. He had no information which induced him to sup-
pose he was not in attendance according to the note he
received, or that there was any failure with regard to his
carrying out the provisions of the law. With regard to
these wholesale evictions, they were now becoming ex-
tremely rare in Ireland, but it was not possible to hear of a
case of the kind without feelings of the deepest commisera-
tion for those who were the subjects of it. There must be
many persons involved in the suffering who could not have
been parties to any guilty transaction. His hon. friend
would find, when the papers moved for yesterday were laid
on the table, that when Government heard it was the in-
tention of the landlord to proceed to so extensive an
exercise of his rights, they felt it their duty to call his
attention to the serious responsibility which persons
incurred by sa doing. With regard to the removal of
this gentleman from the commission of the peace, having
heard the day before yesterday that his hon. friend intended
to put the question, he at once communicated with his
learned friend the Lord Chancellor, with whom the duty
rested of advising the Crown in such cases, and he returned
him an answer, in which he thought the house would con -
cur, that the gentleman had not been shown to him to have
acted in excess of the rights with which he was invested by
the law. or to have been guilty of any breach of his duty in
his capacity of magistrate; and that in the absence of proof
of his having acted otherwise his learned friend thought it
would be an undue exercise of power to expunge his name
from the commission of the peace.
The motion for adjournment until Monday was then
agreed to.

DUTY ON FOREIGN PAPER.
Mr. TURNER asked the President of the Board of Trade
whether it was the fact that in charging the customs duty
on foreign paper a tare of 31bs. was deducted on the weight
of each ream on account of wrappers, the duty being
charged only on the naked paper, whereas in charging the
excise duty to the British manufacturer the whole ream,
including the wrapper, was weighed for duty; and if such
was the fact, what reasons could be given why this protec•
tion was given to the foreign manufacturer.
Mr. M. GIBSON said that he had made inquiries, and
he found it was not correct that a tare of 3lbs. was deducted
from the weight of each ream, on account of the wrapper.
The practice was for the customs to charge in the first in-
stance the whole duty, and afterwards to deduct 2 per cent.
on the whole weight, and return that to the pat ties charged
with the duty, and the excise did pretty much the same
thing. So that it was not true that any protection was
given to the foreign manufacturer.
MEXICAN BONDHOLDERS, &c.
Mr. BUTT moved for an address for copy of any conven-
tion or conventions providing for the appropriation of the
customs duties of any of the Mexican ports to the payment
of the claims of the bondholders of the State entered
into between Governor Juarez, or any other person repre-
seating the constitutional Government at Vera Cruz, an
Captain. Dunlap or Captain Aldham, of her Majesty's navy
and, copy of, or extracts from, any correspondence or de-
spatches relating to the affairs of Mexico since the assump •
lion of the presidential power by Miramon.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had nothing new to commu-
nicate on the subject, but there was no doubt whatever that
a gross felony was committed. There was a large sum of
money at the British Legation, and a base and undisguised
rob Wry, for which the British Government must demand
reparation as soon as possible. There was some difficulty
as to what they should do, but it was under consideration.
There have been so many outrages committed at Mexico
that Mr. Matthews, the British Minister, was directed by
him (Lord J. Russell) to leave Mexico before the robbery
occurred. It was, therefore, not his fault that he was not
present when the money was taken away. Of course it was
no wonder the British bondholders felt just indignation,
but Sir Charles White was now on his way to Mexico with
special instructions from the Government. As to the papers
moved for, he should lay them on the table of the house on
Monday next.

CHELSEA NEW BRIDGE.
Sir J. SHELLEY moved for a return of amount of tolls
collected en Chelsea New Bridge from the 31st day of
March, 1860, to the 30th day of September, 1860, and from
the 30th day of September, 1860, to the 31st day of March,
1861, stating the expenses incurred in the collection of tolls,
repairs, and maintenance ; also the quantity of land around
Battersea Park disposed of for building or other purposes
since the 31st day of March, 1860.

On the motion of Mr. HUBBARD, Mr. Baxter was dis-
charged from attendance on the Select Committee on In-
come and Property-tax, and Mr. Buchanan added thereto.
Mr. KINNAIRD obtained leave to bring in a bill to pro-
vide additional means for the establishment of reformatory
schools in Scotland.

Mr. VANCE moved for a return of all articles entered

for exportation to France from the various ports of the
United Kingdom, together with the value of the same
Fl om the Ist day of April, 1880, to the 31st day of March,
1831, both inclusive; and similar return for the same
period in the previous year.

PUBLIC OFFICES EXTENSION BILL.
Mr. COWPER nominated the following members as a
committee on the above subject :—Mr. Cowper, Sir William
Dunbar, Lord John Manners, Sir Stafford Northcote, Sir
John Shelley, Viscount Enfield ; and five members to be
nominated by the committee of selection; five to be the

quorum.
Mr. SCULLY complained that there was no Irish mem-
ber on the committee. If the Government ignored the
Irish members, why not let them have their own Irish Par-

Jiament, where they could manage their own affai:;;;;;;t
themselves.

Colonel DUNNE wished to know if the Government
meant to repeal the union altogether by excluding Irish
members from important committee's of that house.
Mr. COWPER said he never contemplated that Irish
members wished to act on this committee, the object of
which was to make arrangements to purchase five houses.
(A laugh.)
After a few words from Colonel FRENCH, the committee
were appointed.

VOLUNTEERS' TOLLS EXEMPTION (No. 2) BILL.
On the motion of Mr. BRISTOW, leave was given to bring
in a bill to exempt the volunteer forces of Great Britain
from payment of tolls.