The Sun.
London, England, 1861-02-27 00:00:00

ARMY .(CAVALRY OFFICERS).

Mr. GRII4ITH moved that this house to-morrow
resolve itself into 'a committee, to consider of an humble
address to be pre.sented to her Majesty, praying that she
would be graciously, pleased to give directions that the
stoppage froni the pay of the cavalry and artillery
officers for forage be discontinued. The hon. member con-
tended that under tbe- present system much hardship was
inflicted on cavalry officers, and urged that there should be
an increase in their pay.
Captisin JARVIS seconded the motion.
*&r BARING said this subject was attended with much
`_%ifil.:lll"3,, and the alterations suggested by honour-
ee' members would cost the country 120,000 a year.
Before the geese' eitotr' ld take the initiative in a matter
involving
'foresee in public expenditure, it should be
clearly sholin that h was shown that inidhs;?ae the "
case,
It'had not been
"case and therefore he trusted the
house would not agree to the PreepAt motion.
Colonel 1)1cl:so's .ar.d
D
,Colonelmotion. UNNE supported the

Mr. P. PEEL defended the Treasury in reference to
the conduct they mod, pursuarespecting cavalry officers,
who, he contended, had not any grievance to complain of
se regarded the question of forage.
After some further dispussion the house divided, and the
numbers were
For the' !notion,
Against it ......
Majority

... . ..... ....... 66
................ 218

...•
........... —l6O
The motion was accoidingly. lost. . .
—RECOVERY OF DEBTS.
Mr. nomexiNsort asked leave to bring in a bill to
prevent friVolatiP and vexetious defences to actions foT the
recovery of &Its,

SLAVE TRADE.
Mr, CAVE• moved the followiog resolutions :
" Th4tlh*means hitherto employed by this country, for

,
the suppression of the African slave trade haVe failed to
accomplish the object,

"That this failure has mainly arisen from ur having
endeavoured, almost exclusively, to prevent e supply of
slaves, instead of to check the demand for th m.

" That the true remedy is not to be found i countenanc-
ing immigration into those countries wher iavery exists,
but in augmenting the working population , those in which
slavery has been abolished.

" That, therefore, while repressive measures should be
continued, and even rendered more effective, every possible
iuornagoefmferenet
immigrants,
iansrsanisttasn,caensdhoeuspldecbizlgiyv
oefnsteotttlheresr
from
China, into the British' West India colonies."
The hon. gentleman observed that since last session several
important documents had been laid before the public. The
first was the noble lord the Foreign Secretary's circular on
the slave trade, and the reply to it of the President of the
United States; respecting which he must observe that
while he agreed with the sentiments it expressed, he was
pained at the arrogant tone of the document—a tone which
there was'nothing to provoke in the temperate circular of the
noble, lord. Next there was the ordinary slave trade corre-
spondence, A and B, for 1860 ; and lastly, the convention
with France on the subject of coolie immigration into the
French colonies, In his circular the noble lord indicated anew
line of policy against which he (the hon. member) felt it his
duty to protest. The first resolution to which he asked the
assent of the house WAS only too easy of proof. The noble
lord himself said that the slave trade with Cuba was already
very active, and that intelligence had been received of
steps being taken for its more extensive prosecution. Mr.
Crawford, our consul-general at Havannah, stated that in
1858 17,000 slaves had been imported into Cuba. In 1859
that number incr eased to 30,000, and last year it rose to be-
tween 40,000 and 50,000. The sugar crop of last year was
said by Mr. Crawford to have been 450,000 tons, and later
advices estimated it at more than half a million. At first
Brazil was the great offender ; but after the passing of the
bill of 1845 the slave trade of that country fell off till it had
at last altogether ceased. It was said that that circumstance
was due to the exertions of the British squadron ; and no
doubt that was true to a certain extent. The British cruiser
Cormorant had chased a slaver under the guns of a Brazi-
lian fort, and being fired upon blew it up. That fact,and a
feeling on the part of the Brazilian people that the slave
population was already enough, led them to suppress their
slave trade. At the same time, Brazil had no great horror
of slavery, for at this moment there were 27,000 emanci-
pados—that was, negroes who had been set free by British
cruisers, and apprenticed in Brazil for a term of years—who
were still kept in servitude. In Cuba, which was now the
great supporter of the slave trade, there could be no doubt
of the interest which those engaged in it had in carrying it
on. A negro who was worth less than 20 dollars on the
coast of Africa would sell in Cuba for more than 1,000. No
doubt the slave squadron, by enhancing the price, had a
tendency to check the demand; but a demand there was
which would always produce.a supply. Probably measures
against the Cuban trade like those adopted against the Bra-
zilian would be found to have a great effect ; and so thought
the President of the United States, who said that until the
British Government followed the slaves landed in Cuba and

set them free—until, in fact, it compelled the Government of

Spain to fulfil the treaty they had received £lOO,OOO to
enable them to carry out—the slave trade would continue.
The noble lord proposed a joint cruise, but the President
refused to have anything to do with it. Nevertheless, the
noble lord's proposition was a most reasonable one ; for it was
impossible that the whole line of the African coast could be
watched by any British squadron of moderate extent. It
was proposed, again, that a portion of the squadron should
be stationed in the West_ Indies ; and that also was a very
sensible suggestion. It might be said that it had already
been tried, and had been obliged to be abandoned on account
of the remonstrances of the American Government. That
arose from the unfortunate fact that the very first slaver
captured was an empty one sailing East with dollars—which
had led captains of our cruisers to show great vigilance to-
wards such vessels, and to overhaul two or three honest
traders. Still, any ono who knew the West India Islands
would be aware that ships sailing from the coast of Africa
to Cuba must necessarily pass through ono or two very nar-
row channels; and it was also well known that by the
simple expedient of going to the leeward it was perfectly
easy to detect a slaver on account of the horrible effluvia
which proceed from it. A very few quick steamers, there-
fore, cruising in our own waters about Jamaica would be
able to pick up more vessels, becalmed as they were so liable
to be, when the morning breeze encountered the trade winds,
than all the African squadron put together. Another pro-
posal for checking the slave trade was the civilisation of
Africa. No doubt a legitimate trade in palm oil had sprung
up with Africa, and it might be capable of a large increase.
Still, a very long time must , necessarily elapse before much
progress could be made. Besides, we were by no means cer-
tain that labour in Africa was free. Captain Forbes stated
that slaves were bought and sold in Liberia; and he gave
a by no means encouraging account of his mission to Da-
homey. He presented the prime minister with some silk
handkerchiefs, and told him he might have whole cargoes
of them if he would only produce palm oil. The minister
took two gold rings and two handkerchiefs from Captain
Forbes, and bade him good-bye, merely observing that the
slave trade was very lucrative, and that it would require
many years to grow the palms. There had lately been a
horrible massacre in memory of this very king, and per-
petrated almost in the very presence of the envoy sent to
remonstrate against it. The noble lord next proposed a re-
gistration and inspection of the slaves ; but the President of
the United States replied that if the profits of the sugar
trade were such as to enable the planters to corrupt the
officials in the manner they already did, there was no hope
that such a registration would be effectively carried out.
But in August, 1854, Lord Clarendon announced that in
the previous March the Queen of Spain had given her autho-
rity for such a registration—that was to say, if any slave
was afterwards found unregistered he should be, ipso facto,
set at liberty, and that law had been as well observed as
Spanish laws usually were. The next plan of the noble lord
was to substitute free for slave labour, and he entirely agreed
with.the noble lord as to the efficacy of that remedy, though
he could not agree with him as to the source from which
the free labour should be procured, The noble lord had al-
lowed the immigration of coolies into the French colonies;
but he (the hon. gentleman) had the authority of an Eng-
lish chaplain at Mauritius, who had recently paid a visit to
Bourbon, and had published a work in two volumes on the
subject, for saying that the French immigration of coolies
had been a complete failure. The Madras coolies who went
to Bourbon never returned, whereas those who went to Mau-
ritius did; and the rev. gentleman said that that fact would
enable the evil to cure itself, for the Madras coolies now re-
fused to sail for the French colonies. The noble lord had,
however, allowed the French to ship coolies from Calcutta,
where the bad name of the French had not yet b come
known, and had thus given the sanction of the British flag
to an emigration from which it was rather the duty of her
Majesty'sGovernrnent to have protected the natives of India
There was no real liberty enjoyed by the coolies in the Ft ench
colonies; but if the plan was objectionable where there was
at any rate the name of liberty, what might they not expect
from it where slavery existed in its most detestable form?
He thought it was not acting with Oluch dignity to go cap
in hand to the Spanish Government and say, " It is ttue we
gave you £lOO,OOO to put an end to the slave trade—a sum
which with the interest that has accrued upon it would now
amount.to nearly a million and a half of money, and would
pay for bringing over 80,000 Chinese to our own colonies—
it is true that you have entirely disregarded the engage-
ments into which you entered with us ; but now, just to
save our credit in having put down African slavery, will
not Chinese slaves serve your turn as well ?" He did not
believe the noble lord had any idea of the treatment which
the Chinese met with in Cuba; otherwise he was sure he
would never have sanctioned the scheme. He was sorry
the hon. member for Poole (Mr. Henry Seymour) was ab-
sent, for that gentleman had last year stated that they were
not ill-used. He (Mr. Cave) had been in every slavehold-
ing colony in the West Indies, and every slaveholding
State in America, and he had never seen a slave treated
with cruelty in his life. But those things were not done in
the open day. (Cheers.) They might just as well say that
the act against cruelty to animals was never violated in our
streets; but no hon. member could tell how animals were
really treated, or indeed how his groom used his own horses
when his back was turned. He would merely quote the
authority of two writers on this point. One was Mr.
Russell, a writer on chemistry and agriculture, who
tbesa visiteditdbtetahrt
ahCit
taunt the treatment
ahntafr
that
ranotefmsgreseiloneaetn:
el scientific
t purposeshe Chinese in
ItBhses;e, and
was who
t
as they were less able
and the result was the, large
numbers committed suicide. His other authority was
that well-known author Mr. Dana, who was in Cuba last
year but one, and who made a similar statement. They bad
heard a good deal about the horrors of the middle passage in
the case of coolies for the French colonies, but nothing of
the kind had been err r said about coolie emigrants for our
own. In our colonies they enjoyed freedom, as was proved
by the concurrent testimony of governors and missionaries.
The new system was inaugurated by the noble lord the
member for King's Lynn, who had been in the West In-
dies, and thoroughly understood tho. subject. Mr. Under-
hill, of the Baptist Missionary Society, had actually been to
the colonies for the purpose of seeing how the system
worked, and he reported it to be a complete success. He
said that the houses of the coolies were at any rate better
than they bad in India ; that they looked well fed and happy;
and that they received 10d. a day for four hours' work.
The French, always wise in their generation, were strain-
ing every nerve to obtain coolie labourers ; but in this coun-
try it was treated merely as a planter's question, As long
as they doled out aid in the scanty manner they did our
West Indian colonies would never obtain the amount of
free labour they needed. He heard that in June last there
were 70,000 free negroes in the Southern States of America
who were anxious to emigrate to our colonies, but her Ma-
jesty's Government stated that from motives of interna-
tional policy they must decline to give them any assistance.
There.-vas also "a large number of negroes in Canada, with
respect to whom there could be no such reason for refusing
their .aid ; but none had been given. The people of this
country had said that they would have sugar and cotton at
all Fiiks ;. and those commodities must therefore be pro-
d ~,,a either by free or by slave labour. It could not by
th toii4er, unless there was a considerable free immigra-
ti -;and so long as the planter was expected to pay two-
',, thV9rthe cost, it was totally impossible that it could be
of et*eg
, ~tom_restricted within yery harrow limits, In,

the end the result must be that the planter was out of
pocket, unless the crop paid better than usual. The system
of immigration must consequently, in the nature of things,
of itself come to an end. Then, he said, there was nothing
better than to bring fresh hands into the colony. The
mother country might find it to be true economy to grant
loans and guarantees, and by increasing immigration to put
an end to slavery for ever. It was, he believed, a disputed
question whether free labour was cheaper or dearer than
slave labour in our colonies. He believed the former, be-
cause the owner of free labour was contented with less pro-
fits than the slave owner. The slave owner was compelled
to indemnify himself for the risks he ran; a pestilence
might destroy at ono blow all his human chattels ; a con-
spiracy might endanger his life and property. As the poet
said of old—" Incedit in ignos suppositos cineri doloso."
This feeling of the slave owner was the cause of the preva-
lence of Lynch law in certain parts of the United States ;
for, as his hearers were aware, nothing was so cruel as fear.
This he thought was a national question. The Government
which first kept an armed force on the coast of Africa gave
every encouragement to a deplorable system of cruelty ;
but by adopting the plan proposed they would at once strike
at the root of slavery, and encourage commercial enterprise.
There were, therefore, two alternatives, either to withdraw
our squadron, or to let our colonies go to ruin, and continue,
as we are at present, the greatest consumers of slave pro-
dun 14 the world. But let us put an end to those empirical
remedies, which only checked the ulcer in one place that it
might break ont in another, and which substituted for the
slave trade a system which, from the length of the voyage
and the character of the voyagers, was unfortunately more
cruel than that which it professed to destroy.
Lord J. RUSSELL—The hon. gentleman has proposed
these resolutions to the house in a speech of great feeling
and great ability. (Hear, hear.) It is worth the while of
the house frequently to consider this subject, and if any
member of the house will point out any means by which
the slave trade can be more speedily and more efficiently
suppressed, our time will not be lost in considering the sub-
ject. I shall, however, reserve what I have to say with
respect to the motion of the hon. gentleman till after I
have made some observations upon the comments he has
made upon the proposal he has offered. Now, sir, we have
got rid most happily, and we ought to be thankful to God
that we live at a time when we have got rid of slavery in
our own dominions. (Hear.) I remember the time, unfor-
tunately that that should be the case, when Mr. Canning
came down to this house and read some 12 or 15 propositions,
which were the proposals of the Government of that day, not
for the abolition but for the mitigation of slavery in our West
Indian colonies, with a view to its final extinguishment.
Among those propositions was one of a most humane cha-
racter. But some months, perhaps a twelvemonth, after-
wards the minister came down to this house and said that his
propositions were not favourably received by the West In-
dian colonists ; and one in particular to which the West In-
dians objected—on the ground that its adoption would be
fatal to the property of the colonists, and to the labour upon
which their whole prosperity depended—was that the flog-
ging of women should be abolished. Mr. Canning was
obliged to state that the colonists would not suffer this pro-
posal to be carried out. Happily we have advanced far be-
yond that time. We have seen not only plans for the en-
franchisement of slaves, but we have seen that noble scheme
which was introduced by Lord Derby for the total abolition
of slavery carried into effect. At the same time that we were
adopting a plan of our own for the abolition of slavery, an
endeavour was made to provide by treaties that the abolition
of the slave trade should be carried out in other ways. The
hon. gentleman says he cannot conceive «hat ground we
have for saying that we have suppressed slavery. I admit we
have not been wholly successful ; I admit we have not been
successful to the extent of utterly suppressing it, but all our
efforts have been made in this direction, and to a consider-
able extent they have checked and obstructed the slave
trade. There is, however, this consideration, that whilst the
whole nation with willingness, I may say with enthusiasm,
adopted the plans which were proposed for the suppression

of the English slave trade, and afterwards of English
slavery, there is no such moral public opinion existing in
other countries against either slavery or the slave trade
that we can depend upon their efficient assistance to the
diplomacy of this country, or to our active efforts for the
suppression of the slave trade. We have done much, it is
admitted, towards the suppression of the trade in Brazil;
and I find it is reported that during the last two years no
instances have occurred of the slave trade being carried on
in Brazil. But there is a very great slave trade carried OR
between the states of America and the West Indies. (Hear.)
A great number of slaves are introduced into Cuba ; and
some 500,000, or as some persons say 600,000 tons of sugar
are grown and manufactured in Cuba almost entirely by
slave labour. This is a melancholy fact, and we have en-

deavoured to ascertain why it is that this trade continues.
In the first place, we find that every person in Cuba who
has any official knowledge of the importation of slaves re-
ceives, or is able to receive, a large bribe for permitting the
introduction of slaves. It seems that a bribe given for the
permission to import slaves is to persons of small incomes
an irresistible temptation. But I believe they content
themselves with receiving a large bribe instead of using
their efforts for the suppression of the traffic. I believe the
Governor of Cuba says in his public declarations that he
wishes to suppress the trade, and no doubt the Spanish
Government has dismissed several persons who had been
accused and convicted of trafficking in slaves. But still

the profits are so enormous, and the facility is so great, that
these measures are unheeded. What then, according to
our ideas, shall be the remedy ? This is a remedy, that
vessels sailing under the Spanish flag, and carrying slaves,
should be boarded, taken before a mixed commission, and
conderoned. But here, I say, we meet with an effectual
obstacle to our efforts. The hon. gentleman says—" If
certain cruisers were placed off the coast of Cuba, and were
to arrest vessels sailing to Cuba, that might be a very
complete suppression." But we have several times had a
very effective squadron off the coast of Cuba, and we have
used every endeavour to prevent' the importation of
slaves. Hero we are met with another objection, namely,
that these vessels carry the American flag. The prac-
tice is carried on in this way, and when I state this
I state what I have read over and over again in American
papers. There is a large association of very considerable
means at the Havannah. This association sends vessels to
New York and to other ports on the coasis of America, and
their agents purchase vessels on the coasts of America, at
New York, and other places, which are sent sometimes to
the Havannah, and sometimes directly to the coasts of
Africa. These vessels are equipped in a manner fit for the
reception of slaves. They arrive at the coast, and remain
sometimes for weeks without being able to import their
human cargo. But opportunities aro found along all these
coasts for the embarkation of the slaves. The vessel sails to
the coast of Cuba, and find,i an opportunity to land its cargo
in sonic small creek or harbour, and all this time the Bri-
tish cruisers are unable to take them because they are
covered by the America' flag. Then we remonstrated about
this. The American Government replied, and stated, what
they were perfectly right in stating, that the right of search
in time of peace cannot by international law be allowed, and
that they were entitled to be exempt from any such search
of their vesselr. No doubt that flag covered such importa-
tions, when under the Spanish flag we should have cap-
tured those vessels. But the 11 ig being the American flag,
it was impossible so to do. Then I urged, and I think with
great fairness, "It may be that that sensitiveness with
regard to the search of your ships is justifiable. It may
be that your native pride will never allow an English officer
to come and search vessels that are bona fide ships belong-
ing to the United States. But if that be so, do not depart
from your own treaties and declarations against the slave
trade. Employ measures of your own. If you will not allow
British cruisers to put down the slave trade, put it down
yourselves. Take all the merit of the glory which will accrue
from successfully putting an end to the traffic. Let us not
take a single one of your ships. Do it finally for the sake
of your own character, for the sake of that great republic
which I hope may still remain the United States." Well,
sir, the President of the United States directed his Sec-
retary of State to tell me that the American Government
had already had enough of these remonstrances on the part
of the British Government. (A laugh.) My answer to
that was, that the American Government might state what
it pleased, but that no declaration of theirs, no statement of
theirs, would prevent the British Miuiater from remon-
strating and declaring that it was a blot upon tho United
States that they did not effectually repress the slave trade
that was going on—(cheers)—and I hope when there is
occasion to repeat that statement. (Cheers.) This leaves us
in a state of things to which I think no hen gentleman will
easily find an answer. The Spanish Government do allow
their officials in Cuba to draw enormous profits, of 70, 80,
and even 100 per cent. for this horrible trade, whichsto us
is the subject of such deep aversion, and this under the pro.
tection of the Spanish flag. What I proposed was, and the
hon. gentleman seems to think it a very flighty proposal—
I really felt it was right to try every possible means, to look
here, there, and everywhere for a remedy—what I proposed
was, that there should be a joint squadron of English and
Spanish ships—
Mr. CAVE—I beg the noble lord's pardon. I said that
the proposal was a very reasonable one.
Lord J. RUSSELL—I am glad to hear it meets with the
hon. gentleman's approbation. A similar propcsal was made
many years ago, which I should have been perfectly glad
to see adopted, but which I feared the United States, France,
or Spain would nut accede to. The proposal was made by
the Emperor Alexander of Russia. Seeing the jealousy
that those nations had of each other, he proposed a squadron
composed of each nation, but bearing one flag, and being em-
powered by all the different nations to search vessels and
carry them before a commission, which should be authorised
by all these powers to 'condemn traders in slaves. That
seemed a very reasonable proposal. Instead of endeavouring
not to have such a proposal carried out I supported it. But
the American Government refused the proposition. I now
come therefore to the objections which the hon. gentleman
has made. With regard t•) the importation of Chinese
coolies into Cuba, it seems to me at least to have this ad-
vantage. The demand for labour is of course very great in
Cuba; with such a soil and with such means of produce
there are great demands for labour. These labourers aro
procured by slave dealers, who keep the African tribes in a
state of unmitigated hostility for the purpose. In short the
means of obtaining slaves are repugnant to humanity—
(hear, hear)—and the mode in which these unfortunate
ereatxues are brought across the peas has been the subject