The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-25 00:00:00

THE CATHOLIC POTPERS ANL ROME

The Brussels papers furnish us with the text of
M. Thouvenel's reply to the proposal made to France
by Austria and Spain, to interfere in behalf of the
Pope's temporal power. It will be recollected that
Lord S. Russell stated in the House of Commons, on.
l'hursday evening last, in answer to a question from
Mr. D. Griffith, that France had answered nega-
tively. The French Foreign Minister's despatch,
aidressed to the two powers, is as follows :

" Paris, Tune 6.
" Sir,—l have received the note which your Ex-
cellency has done me the honour to address to :lie,
dated the 28th May, in which you express tb e de-
sire of your Government to come to an understand-
ing with the Government of the Emperor, with a
view of securing in a definitive manner 'and as the
result of an agreement between the Catb olic Powers,
the maintenance of the temporal power of the Holy
See. On his part, M. the Ambassador -- was en-
trusted by his Government with a similar mission.
My first duty was to place before the eyes of his
Majesty these important communications, and I
now find myself in a position to reply.
"The sentiments inspired in the Government of
by the position of the Holy Father, are in en-
tire conformity with those of the Goveinment of
the Emperor. That Government has equally la-
mented and condemned the aggression directed
against the Pontifical States, and if the grave poli-
tical considerations which Austria and Spain have
both taken into account, at this epoch, haves not al-
lowed it further to oppose accomplished events, it
has neglected nothing in order to limit their conse-
quences. The corps of occupation at Rome was
augmented without delay, and the Pope, being
able to dwell with security in his capital in the
midst of the turmoil which agitated Italy, has been
indebted to the French troops for the preservation
of a part of his territory.
" The Government of the Emperor by some acts,
of which, as I ascertain with satisfaction, the Go-
vernment of does not hesitate to express ap-
proval, has testified, and constantly testifies, to the
profound and invariable sympathies which animate
it in relation to the bead of the Church. The pre-
carious situation in which circumstances have placed
the temporal power of the Holy See, do not excite
less distressing sentiments among the Catholic na-
tions ; and as it concerns the peace of consciences
that such serious questions should not remain for a
long period in suspense, it is certainly the duty of
Governments to unite their efforts, in order to sim-
plify them and facilitate their solution.

"..1 do not believe, however, M—, that it would
be useful to discuss here, with the necessary ful-
ness, the system according to which the St ates of
the Pope and the city of Rome would establish, so
to speak, a property in mortmain appropetetted en-
tirely to Catholicism, and, in virtue of an u.mwritten
law, placed above the rights which regu late the
condition of other sovereignties. I confino .3 myself
to recalling the fact that neither the most; an:ient
nor the most recent historical traditions appear to
sanction this doctrine, and that England,. Prussia,
Russia, and Sweden—powers separated from the
Church—signed at Vienna, with the same authority
as France, Austria, Spain, and Portugal, the trea-
ties which restored to the Pope the posse ssions lie
had lost.
" The highest expediency—l hasten to proclaim
it—agrees with the greatest social interest s in re-
quiring that the Head of the Church maintain him-
self on the throne occupied by his predec es sors for
so many centuries. The opinion of the I? ,t nperor's
Government is very firm on this point, but i t thinks
also that the wise exercise of the supreme uthority
and the consent of populations are in the Roman
States, as elsewhere, the first consideration s of the
solidity of power. The gravest dangers 7 low me-
nacing the temporal Sovereignty of the I loly See
proceed, it is true, from without; and tho ugh the
occupation of Rome provides for the news sities of
the present, the future remains exposed t a hazards
which we sincerely wish to avert.
" Austria and Spain, M.— agree with. us in this
task ; but they do not at the same time in .dicate the
means to be employed for accomplishin g it; and
some explanations on their part, moreover, become
the more necessary, as their position tow MT el S Italy
differs, under a certain aspect, from that of France.
We have seen with regret the stipulatio LIS of Villa-
franca and of Zurich fail of complete exec )u.tion, and
we should have wished that the Monamhy of the
Two Sicilies had not been overthrown ; nervertheres:
the march of events, while contrary to its
nwl s a
has not affected the Imperial Government
such Madrid.
direct way as the Courts of Vienna n
abais passed ;
Without giving our approbation to whateua)rantee the
without wishing to cover with
existence of the new state of things,ormaL relations
terest prevents us from effecting our no dynastic in-
terest the obstacle to its
ehnetirinsealffieaiitrusdaet Rfoormthee.
hope that Austria and
with the kingdom of Italy,ara
as we are cioncerned,
acknowledgment rests, a f
athtoe rt
simply in the difficulties
" May we be
permitted present time be disposed to take
Spain will from the
• w, an
this point of vie
superior to any private
cotAsidera-
Holy See will be is aquestion
which I put to
tion. The foregoing
myself rather than to your Excellency ; but the
idestihns
doubt eves which it excites, and the consequences
which result from it, do not allow me to appreciate
with as much exactitude as is required, the nature
of the common action proposed by the Government
of

I do not conee.al,•lll.
non-intervention
that have which has saved the peace of
Europe, excluding to-day, as it did a year ago, the
-, that the principle of
employment of force, there exists in our eyes a strict
connection hr.:,tween the regularisation of the facts
the 4 P .; sr) considerably modified the situation of
T - enir.s-ula, and the solution to be given to the
L:iiini,attlheqzbsetivoenr.y The Government of the Emperor
happy to learn that Austria and
Spain deem it possible to enter also in the only
pathlvhich, as seems to it, can without new shocks
conduct to a practical result; but in any hypothesis
it does not hesitate to give the assurance that, for
its part, it will not adhere to any combination which
is incompatible with. the respect it professes for the
independence and dignity of the Holy See, and
which would be at variance with the object of the
presence of its troops at Rome.--Receive, &c.,
(Signed) " THOUVENEL."

Owing to the present excessive heat the superior
military authorities in Paris have given orders that the
exercises and manoeuvring of the troops in the Champ do
44175 61411 Apt be continued after V) o'clock in the ronlii2g.

LIIPERIA

.MENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS-YESTERDAY,

Lord REDEsDALE, Deputy-Speaker of tho House of
Lords, took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock.
DEATH OF THE LORD CHANCELLOR.
Earl GRAN VILLE said he hoped it would not be
deemed presumptuous in him, as a friend and colleague of
the noble and learned lord who lately occupied the distin-
guished position on the woolsack who had been taken from
the midst of them, and one who up to the last moment pre-
sided over their deliberations, to ask the house to agree to
a motion to adjourn, as a mark of respect and esteem to
the late noble and learned lord. The noble and learned
lord had met his colleagues at a Cabinet Council
on Saturday, and he (Earl Granville) had the
pleasure of meeting him again in the evening at
his own house, where he presided over the social circle
with his usual kindness. The noble lord on both occasions
appeared to possess his usual health, but death had come
suddenly upon him. He had attained a position of the
greatest eminence by his own industry and integrity,
which could not but be an encouragement to all, showing
what could be done by indefatigable industry and the
exercise of this power given by God. He hoped that their
lordships would:unanimously agree to the motion.
Lord BROUGHAM entirely agreed with the noble earl
the President of the Council. He dwelt with great earnest-
ness upon the eminent qualities of the late noble lord. He
(Lord Brougham) had sat with the noble lord on Friday
for nearly 11 hours, and during the whole of that pro-
tracted sitting the noble lord exhibited all his usual
acuteness, ability, and attention to the business
before them which had rendered him so distinguished.
Although it was almost superfluous he seconded the motion.
He apologised for having taken up their time, but he con-
sidered it right to speak on the melancholy occasion.

Lord ST. LEONARDS said no one could feel the loss
of the noble lord more than he did. The noble lord had
presided, with the dignity for which he was distinguished,
over their deliberations, and their lordships, he felt, were
fully sensible of the great loss which the coun-
try had sustained by his removal from amongst them
by the hand of death. He had long enjoyed the privilege
of the noble and learned lord's friendship, and - [The
noble and learned lord here became so affeited that he could
not proceed further with his remarks, but with some diffi-
culty resumed his seat.]

The motion was agree] to.
Their lordships then adjourned.
There was a very large attendance of members of the
House of Commons at the bar in the space before the throne,
and in the different galleries of the hoase.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-YESTERDAY
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords' amendments to the following bills were con-
sidered and agreed to :—Bishop's Castle Railway, Clifton
Suspension Bridge, Downpatrick and Newry Railway, and
North-Western Railway (Cheshire Lines.)
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Bishop Stortford, Dunmow, and Braintree Railway,
Eastern Counties Railway, Leigh District Gas, and
Portsea Gas.
The following bills were considered and ordered for third
reading :—Alva Railway, Brecon and Merthyr Tydfil
Junction Railway (New Lines, &c.), Bristol Channel
Pilotage, Chard and Taunton Railway, Dublin Markets,
Grand Junction Water, Lambeth-bri /go, Llanelly Railway
and Dock (New Lines, &c.), London, Chatham, and Dover
Railway (Deviations, &c.), North British and Peebles Rail-
way Companies, Swansea Harbour Trust, Swansea Vale
Railway, Waveney Valley Railway, West Hartlepool Har-
bour and Railway (Capital, &c.), and Wivenhoe and
Brightlingsea Railway.
Several private bills, including the Eastern and Saffron
Walden Railway Bill, were read a second time.
PETITIONS.

Several petitions were presented in favour of the cultiva-
tion of cotton in India; against railway traffic and the con-
tinuance of the liquor trade on Sundays; in favour of the
restoration of the Galway subsidy; from various parts of
Ireland in favour of an alteration of the Irish poor-law;
in favour of the Irish registration of birth, deaths, and
marriages, &c.
THE CASE OF THE REV. P. MACNAMARA.
Mr. MAGUIRE moved for a copy of correspondence in
reference to the case of the Reverend Patrick Macnamara,
Catholic chaplain of Glannamaddy, county Galway, in-
cluding the charge of forging or destroying voting papers,
as well as relating to his re-election to the office of chaplain
by the board of guardians of that union, and the refusal of
the commissioners to sanction such re-election, and to pay
fi,r the services rendered by him up to the present time.—
Ordered.
THE SOUTH KENSINGTON MUSEUM.
Lord W. GRAHAM asked the Vice-President of the
Committee of Council on Education whether the buildings
for schools and residences at South Kensington Museum,
for which a vote of £15,000 was proposed in the Education
Estimates, were to be erected after the plan designed by
Captain Fowke, which plan included the commencement of
an ornamental architectural elevation, thereby deciding the
!style of architecture to be adopted for the whole of the
buildings.
Mr. LOWE, in reply, read a paragraph from the report
of the committee in question, which was to the effect that,
though they did not pledge themselves to the detail of
Captain Fowkes's plan, still they considered it satisfied al
that was required. If the vote were granted, however, ii
would not bind the house to any particular style of archi-
tecure for the proposed building.
COURTS OF JUSTICE BUILDING.
Lord J. MANNERS asked the Attemey-General
whether, in the event of the Courts of Justice Building Act
(Money) Bill being read a second time, he weuld refer the
question of site for the buildings to a select committee.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that there was an
entire unanimity with respect to the subject of the build-
ings, with the exception of persons holding house property
in Lincolns-inn.fields. The committee were all agreed as
to the site, and, under the circumstances, he felt bound to
proceed with the bill this evening, and he hoped it would
be advanced a stage.
THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ROAD CARRIAGE.
Mr. GRIFFITH asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department whether his attention had been called to
an accident in the Hampstead road, caused by a locomotive
steam road carriage, which, in going along the road, re-
moving the debris from the old reservoir, snorting and
blowing-off steam, caused the horses of an omnibus to take
fright, rush on the pavement, and capsize the passengers,
breaking arms and legs, and doing shocking injury to the
passengers ; and whether he was of opinion that such loco-
motives could safely run in future on the public roads. ?
Sir G. C. LEWIS said he had received a report from the
commissioners of police on this subject, which was sub-
stantially as the accounts that appeared in the newspapers.
One person had his collar bone broken, and several persons
received injuries, but he believed no other accident occurred.
No doubt there was considerable danger arising from the
carriage road—greater at the point alluded to ; but in the
present state of the law, the only remedy would be by an
indictment for & nuisance.
REGISTRATION OF ROMAN CATHOLIC CHIL-
DREN AT THE SLIGO UNIONS.
In reply to Mr. MAcEvoy,
Mr. CARDWELL said that the children in question
were brought. to the union by their paternal grandfather to
lie
Fegtstered, but at the time it was not understood at the
union that they were the childrent ofo
b Roman. Catholic.
parents. They had been ordered
, and in adopting
wh teh thatg
lav given
course
et to
et their
p grandfather
be-
lieved the guardians had complied
ADMISION OF BRITISH SALT INTO e w
FRANCE.
Sir Sir J. PAK INGTON asked the Fresidenyteotf
of Trade whether any arrangements had
made
with the Government of Franc© for the adraiasionenof
Bri-
tish salt into that country; and, if not, whether there availany probability of such arrangements being effected ?
Mr. M. GIBSON said that an inquiry was going on in
France, by the French Government, which would lead to a
satisfactory arrangement.
THE CASE OF MR. KING HARMER.
Sir G. C. LEWIS begged to state, in reference to what
he had said the other night in roply to a question from the
hon. member relative to this gentleman, that he had received
a communication from Mr. Arnold, the magistrate before
whom Mr. Harmer was brought. Mr. Arnold said that he
had received no intimation from the police authorities tha
they considered it was not necessary to lay a second infor-
mation against Mr. Harmer.

THE TROOPS FOR CANADA.
Sir J. FERGUSSON, on the motion for going into com-
mittee of supply, moved the adjournment of the house, in
order to enable him to draw attention to the recent aug-
mentation of the military force in Canada, and was pro-
ceeding, to make some observations, when
Sir IL WILLOUGHBY rose to order, and appealed to
the Speaker to bring on this question on the motion for
going into committee of supply.
The SPEAKER said, that strictly speaking, the hon.
baronet was not out of order, but he put it to the good sense
of the house whether it was desirable for an hon. member
to avail himself of his privilege, and impede the course of
public business. Hear, hear.)
Sir J. FERGUSSON deferred to the opinion expressed
by the Speaker, and postponed his question.
THE EVICTIONS IN DONEGAL.
Mr. SCULLY moved an address to her Majesty, repre-
senting that Mr. Adair, one of the justices of the peace for
the county of Donegal, had recently ejected the inhabitants
from a tract of land in that county, under circumstances
which might affect the general peace of the district, pray-
ing that she may direct inquiry, with a view to consi-
der whether he should continue to hold her Majesty'l
commission. The hon. member entered into a lengthened
detail of the manner in which Mr. Adair had become
connected with that portion of
Lion of the circumstances Ireland, and examina-
of:the per,ple, declarin which led to tho eviction
Ware
his belief that the reasons upon
which Mr. Adair acted tvetre groundless.
tt
A warm discussion took place, in which Mr. Conolly,
Mr. I. Bu, Mr. Longfieht, Mr. M‘Mahon, Captain Jervis,
and Mr. Mag,niro took part.
Mr. CARDWELL said: the question was, whether Mr.
Adair -)otiv)-1, t to have boen removed from the commission of
the peace, lie had form, ;rly expressed his opinion that no

case had been made out against him, and he remained of
that opinion still. Reviewing the facts, Mr. Cardwell jus-
tified the conclusion at which he had arrived.
After a few words from Lord C. HAMILTON,
The motion was negatived without a division.
THE AUGMENTATION OF THE MILITARY
FORCE IN CANADA.

Sir J. FERGUSSON then rose to call attention to the
intended augmentation of the military force in Canada.
The matter, he said, was somewhat pressing, because from
information he had received since he came into the house it
appeared the troops were ordered to sail to. morrow. There
was something wanting explanation in the fact of so large
a reinforcement as 3,000 men being sent out, and in the
manner in which they were despatched. The fact that civil
war was unhappily imminent in the United States had
nothing to do with the question, for the house had clearly
expressed its opinion that abstinence from all discussion on
that difficult question was prudent and becoming. He
thought that the course Government was pursuing was very
likely to interfere with that resolve. The force was being
despatched in hot haste in an ostentatious manner, in the
largest vessel that this country had ever possessed. It was
not sent out in the ordinary manner in transports belonging
to the public sei vice, but when it was known that the force
was sent out, it would be known all over Europe that it was
sent out in the Great Eastern. He asked Government on
what ground so large an expedition was being sent out and
so hastily despatched ? On former occasions, when Govern-
ment had sent out such a force, it had always been either to
guard against some foreign aggression or to put down
some
internal disturbance in the colony ; but there was nothing in
the present state of affairs either in Canada or the United
States to justify such a step. The position of Canada was
certainly dangerous to a certain extent, because she had a
long and vulnerable frontier, and there was on the other
side of that frontier a great and spirited people in a very
excited state. At such a time, in a country like the United
states, where there was the utmost freedom in the expres-
sion of opinion, there was perhaps an exaggerated and
often an intemperate tone used by the writers in the public
press, and a disposition to look with jealousy on the conduct
Of foreign powers, and expressions had certainly been used
by some of those writers which would have been alarming in
any other country and at any other time, but he did not
think that they called for such a proceeding. as this. He
thought that, considering the great increase which had
taken place in the naval and military establishments of this
country, we were in a position to regard this language with
indifference. It might be said that the force sent out was
to guard the frontier, but the frontier would be much bet-
ter guarded by gunboats on the lakes and rivers than by a
few troops posted at great distances. But there was, besides
that,. a feeling in this country, that beyond the troops for
garrisoning the great forts, this country ought not to be
called upon to contribute to the military expenditure of the
colony. If it were said that this force was only to reinforce
the garrisons, then he asked how was it that the force in
them should have been allowed to fall so low as to necessi-
tate the despatching 3,000 men from this country in such
hot haste ? Then there was a second class of causes which
might render it expedient to send out such a force, and that
was the existence or the prospect of internal disturbances.
In former times there were civil discords in Canada, but at
the present moment the feeling there was most loyal, and
the manner in which the Prince of Wales was received by
the Canadians showed the friendly disposition of the people
towards this country. It was not by so small a force as
3,000 men that they could hope to retain a hold of Canada,
but by the confidence of the people. But if Canada was
disposed to be hostile to the mother country, there could be
no more unfavourable time for manifesting any want of con-
fidence in the feeling of loyalty of the Canadian people. If,
as some supposed, there was a feeling in Canada to unite
with the people of the United States, it was not at a mo-
ment when the people of the Northern States of America
might be anxious to obtain compensation for their losses in
the South, that they should show a want of confidence in
the Canadians. Surely if any attempt of that kind were
made from the United States, there were militia and volun-
teers enough in Canada to defend the country till the regu-
lar troops arrived. There was this consideration also, that
it was exposing the troops sent out to great temptation. At
the present time every soldier was almost worth his weight
in gold, and it was a serious thing to place men in a position
of such temptation. He hoped that the men sent out would
at least have free rations, and be allowed to work at their
trades and in farming operations. He hoped the noble
lord would be able to give a satisfactory answer to these
questions.
Viscount PALMERSTON—Sir, I can have no difficulty
in answering the question of the hon. and gallant officer,
though I must say that I was surprised at some of the argu-
ments which he adduced—(hear,hear)—especially consider-
ing the profession to which he belongs. (Hear, hear.) I
should not have expected those insinuations against the
army to have come from the mouth of a gentleman belong
ing to that service. (Hear, hear.) I entertain no such ap-
prehensions as he has expressed. lam persuaded that the
imputations which have been cast on the British soldier
are entirely unfounded. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and gal-
lant gentleman has asked several questions which he him-
self answered in subsequent parts of his speech. He talked
at one moment of this large expedition, this momentous
measure, and at another moment he treated the force sent
out of 3,000 men as insignificant and utterly insufficient for
any purpose. Now, I really should wish him to tell us
which of these two statements he intends to abide by;
whether he actually regards it as a momentous and large
force, or as a very small and insignificant one. Ile also
said there can be but two motives for which the force is des..
patched—viz., either to guard against an attack from the
Americans or to interfere in the war now going on, or else
for the purpose of suppressing disturbances in Canada.
The hon. and gallant gentleman has given a reply to all
these suppositions. He told us that there is no appre-
hension whatever of an attack from the Americans. He
has told us that the Government have pledged themselves
and the country to maintain a neutrality, and he
entered into a very eloquent and well-deserved panegyric
of the loyalty which prevails in every part of our
North American provinces. Well, I concur in all those
assertions. Undoubtedly, we have no reason to suppose
that the Northern States of America would commit such an
act of folly as to add a contest with us to the internal con
test in which they are at present engaged. Her Majesty's
Government have professed in the most solemn and public
manner their intention to abstain from taking any part in
the dispute now unfortunately subsisting between the
Northern and Southern States. We rely implicitly on the
loyalty of the people of Canada of all races—a loyalty that
was manifested in the most unequivocal manner during the
visit of the Prince of Wales to those provinces. Therefore,
none of those reasons could be the occasion for sending a
large force, the despatch of which would' be a momentous
measure. But it is the ordinary practice of all Govern-
ments in all parts of the world, when war breaks out and
great military operations are commenced in neighbouring.
States, to take the small and usual precaution of strength-
ening in some degree their military force in that portion of
their territory which is in closest proximity to the scene of
hostilities. That is an ordinary precaution, the neglect of
which would be blameable in those who are answerable for
the interests-of the country, and that we have not gone be-
yond that reasonable limit is proved by the hon. and gal-
lant member's own description of this force in the latter part
of his speech as a very small one. It is a very small force ;
and to talk of 3,000 men being a large and momentous ex-
pedition is, I must say, an amount of exaggeration hardly
to have been expected from a military officer of so much
knowledge and experience as the hon. and gallant gentle-
man. (Hear, hear.) Well, if we have sent out only that
small reinforcement, which according to his own statement
was necessary in common prudence, because he himself
complained that the garrisons of Quebec and Montreal had
been brought dcwn too low by former operations, then the
question arises whether they have been sent out at the pro-
per time and in the proper manner. The hon. and gallant
member admitted that reinforcements ought to be
despatched. He said it was impossible to leave those
garrisons the winter through as they have lately been, and
he added that reinforcements could not be sent out in winter,
but must go in summer. Well, we are sending them out in
summer,eute. and why does the hon. and gallant gentleman
an SfeOrmneertheeineugstihonatehweesahiadvce.erhteaai.nrdlycaomli.tptllueinsutsrpmriasdede
me. complain
that troops have been providedueti with insufficient means of
detained too long on the passage,
for such baedpsZeuge,
transport and have car Be n y suffered hardships and been
and the Government has
been blamed
lof the hon. and gallant gentlemgem.ents. But the complaint
troops in one of the fastest yes
we send them out in ships large
feet comfort, and to obviate those
sult from the employment of numerous
sera
that
that we send out these
enouathcan.be found.; that
have abridged vessels
thefe
r
eyrie
wtohilenhsure their per-
arautuoo often re-
such a purpose ; that, in point of fact, we
length of the voyage as. much as we could, and that we
have despatched them in such a manner that they will
reach their destination with the least possible inconvenience
and suffering. Well, I should really have thought that a
military officer would have given us credit for that, instead
of making it a topic for censure. I have only now to say
that the measure we have adopted indicates no intention

. _
whatever to take any part in the unfortunate differences
now prevailing among our relatives—for I may so call them
—in the United States—that it indicates no suspicion
whatever of the true and undoubted loyalty of her Majesty's
subjects in our North American dominions—that it is de-

signed solely for the purpose of making those precautionary
movements which are essential in a country that is contigu-

ousto another country in which disturbances exist—tha

we have carried it out in the manner best calculated to spare
the troops any inconvenience which a sea passage too often
produces; and that we trust that when they arrive in
Canada they will behave with that loyalty for which the
hon. and gallant member does not seem to give them credit,
but which I am persuaded the British soldier will on all oc •
casions exhibit. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. FERGUSSON wished to explain. The noble lord
had asked him whether he meant that the force was too
large or too small, as he had stated that it was both. What
he had said was that the force was too small for any serious
guarding of the frontier, but very large compared with the
ordinary establishment there.
Mr. DISRAELI—I am not at all surprised that my hon.
and gallant friend should call the attention of the house to
the defrarture of certainly a considerable body of troops
from this country. I should not, however, have risen, but
for the remarks of the noble lord, which were ingenious

enough as matters of Parliamentary reply, but which,
nevertheless, do not appear to be of so satisfactory a nature
as could be wished. Because, after all, what is the character
of this operation ? The noble lord has made a number of
observations in answer to those of my hon. and gallant
friend, but he has not once touched the real point—viz.,
the policy of that operation, which is really what at the
present moment engages the attention of the country. If
those disturbances had not taken place in the United States,
would these 3,000 men have been sent to Canada? That
is the question we are to consider—(hear)—and we cannot
be diverted from the real point by observations on the sea-
son of the year and all the other plausible superficialities
with which the noble lord has treated us. If the dis-
turbances had not taken place in the United States, I re-
peat,r,would these troops have been sent from this country ?
If they are sent in consequence of the disturbances in the
United States, what are they sent for ? Is it to guard the
frontier or to increase the garrisons. If to guard the fron-
tier, are they sufficineenctefsosrarytha?t oTbjheecste?arelivetryo inplcarienasgeutehse-
tgiaortrtiss,oannsd, are
Irde itdhneyot discover any satisfactory reply to them
in the speech of the noble lord. lam bound to sayithat I
view the step taken by the Government with great anxiety,
and that I cannot view it with approbation. It is a step of
very great importance. The noble lord says you cannot
call this an expedition. Well, there have been expeditions
not much more considerable in number sent from this coun-
try for very great objects,—for example, the expedition to
Portugal, which did not consist of more than 5,000 troops,
—and which are often referred to in this house as important
historical events. (Hear.) So the departure of these 3,000
men for Canada may hereafter occupy a much more impor-
tant place in history than the noble lord or any of his col-
leagues at the present moment contemplate. I must say
that I think it a very serious measure, and that the Go-
vernment have incurred a very grave responsibility indeed.
I do not, at this moment, clearly see what is the object of
the despatch of these troops. Dismissing from our minds
the disturbances in the United States, I do not see the ne-
cessity of that operation ; and if those disturbances are its
cause, then we have to consider an act of very grave policy
on the part of the Government. The noble lord will not
regard it in that light, but 1 am bound to say, that if
brought before this house, it is our duty to regard it in
that light. It is possible, if these disturbances spread
and greatly prevail in the United States, that there may
be outrages on our Canadian frontier. I can conceive that
there may be violations of our frontier and acts of out-
rage committed by subjects of the American Government.
Bat are there no inhabitants in Canada—are there not a
numerous and gallant people there, accustomed to military
discipline ? And in a moment of excitement, with that
sense of responsibility which all free men have, the inhabi-
tants of Canada would be adequate to the occasion, would
be able to depend on their own energies, and would not re-
quire the despatch of these 3,000 troops to set them an ex-
ample. (Hear, hear.) On the other hand, I should say
that, taking this early opportunity of letting the people of
Canada know that we are prepared to assume the monopoly
of defending them, is rather calculated to damp their energy
and make them feel that it is not their business to protect
their hearths and homes and national honour, and that they
may pursue their profitable callings without coming forward
in an exigency of this character. In that way I think this
proceeding very unwise. But supposing these disturbances
in the United States are not the cause of the despatch of
these troops, the step clearly was not necessary to strengthen
the garrisons. The garrisons were at that pitch of strength
at which, upon the whole, and after due experience, it was
the opinion of Parliament and of this country that they
should be maintained. The whole tone and tendency of our
policy of late years, and certainly in the present year, as
shown by a vote when Parliament first met, was that no in-
crease of military expenditure, especially in respect to our
colonies, should take place. (Hear, hear.) Put it as you
may, it comes to this—that this is an act of policy on the
part of her Majesty's Government. It can be viewed in no
other light than an aet of policy adopted in consequence of
the disturbances in the United States. But is that an act
of sound and wise policy ? I have very great doubts as to
its wisdom or its. soundness; and we must come to an
opinion upon the point in this manner. Every one will
dismiss immediately the idea that the transmission of 3,000
of her Majesty's troops is an adequate means for preventing
or baffling an invasion of Canada by the United States.
That is out of the question. Gallant as our troops are,
and little inclined as I am to believe that we may lose their
services by other causes than the chances of war—although
I think my gallant friend was justified in alluding with
delicacy and reserve to what we know from experience
of the last disturbances in Canada was the unfortunate
result of the position of our army ; still, gallant as
our troops are, no one can pretend that such a force as
this could be sufficient to prevent or to defeat an invasion
of Canada by the United States. What is the fact ? It is an
act of policy. It has the appearance of a hostile act. What
will be its effect upon the temper of the Government and
people of the United States ? Ido not say that we should
do anything unbecoming ourposition or the doctrines which
I think have been wisely and soundly laid down of neutra-
lity in our relations with the Government of the United
States during these disturbances. But weshould do nothing
wantonly to infuse into their minds the idea that there is
any suspicion on the part of our Government as to their
conduct, and that therefore the Government of this country
is looking to ulterior consequences and makingpreparations
for future misunderstandings and perhaps war. The only
inference they will draw from our sending a body of troops
—an expedition which is not powerful enough to defend
the frontier nor necessary to increase the garrison of the
towns—the only inference will be that there is on the part
of the English Cabinet suspicion and fear, and a prepara-
tion for hostilities which may be contingent with the United
States. I say that is unwise, and I hope such is not the
opinion of the British Government, and I will cheerfully
believe that it is not their opinion that such a contingency
is probable ; but if their opinion should be otherwise, then
I say it would not be wise nor politic to intimate that opin

ion in this manner, but rather they should prepare for such
a sad contingency at a proper time, and take proper means
by which the honour and interests of this country should
be vindicated. When the noble lord boasts of the prompti-

tude with which the Government have availed themselves
of the new means which science and skill have placed at
their disposal, which enables the British Government to
transmit in a short time a numerous forco to the other side
of the Atlantic, he must remember that the same means

will permit the British Ministry to repose in confidence
without exhibiting any unnecessary apprehension which

circumstances may eventually not justify, knowing that
with these new means which science has placed at their dis-
posal they can throw upon any given point an amount of force
with a degree of promptitude which former Governments

had not the power to do. At present I confess it seems to
me that this movement has a fretful and a feverish charac
ter; and. whatever may be the opinion of the Government

as to any ulterior consequences which may accrue to Canada

from the unhappy disturbances in the United States, I

think it would have been better if we acted with more for-
bearance, and until necessity forcel us to do otherwise, if we

continued in that tone and spirit of colonial policy adopted

by Parliament, and, as I believe, approved by the country,

'ear, hear.)

SPAIN AND MOROCCO.

Sir It. PEEL—In putting a question to the noble lord
the Secretary of State for the Foreign Department as to the
critical state of affairs upon the coast of Morocco, I may be
permitted to refer to the importance of the reply of the
noble lord, because it has been admitted by him, on the part
of the Government, that this question is one of the greatest
importance as affecting the interests of British trade gene-
rally, and more particularly in the neighbourhood of our
great fortress of Gibraltar. At this late hour of the evening
I shall not venture to trespass upon the patience of the
house by any lengthened speech, but perhaps I may be per-
mitted to qualify my remarks by one or two preliminary
observations. It will be in the recollection of the house
that when hostilities broke out between the Government of
the Sultan of Morocco and that of the Queen of Spain, in
consequence of hostile aggressions of the Moors against the
fortresses of Melilla and Ceuta, which had been provoked
by the attitude of the governors of those fortresses, her
Majesty's Government demanded in writing of the Spanish
Government an assurance that when hostilities were con-
cluded no occupation of any portion of the territory of
Morocco west of Ceuta, nor, in fact, any portion whatever
of the territory of Morocco should be occupied as a guaran-
tee for the payment of any indemnity which the Spanish
Government might be inclined to demand for the payment
of its war expenses. I think the British Government
very wisely demanded that assurance, believing that
the trade of Gibraltar might be seriously affected
by a successful contest or the annexation by Spain of any
portion of the territory of Morocco. Really the quarrel got
up on this subject was most futile, but I can't now enter
upon that. I will only say that nine-tenths of the trade of
landmarks.
The tribe p
Morocco is in the hands of British subjects, and the cause
Spanish
of quarrel between Spain and Morocco was of the most futile
character. The Spaniards extended their lines outside of
Ceuta.
aniniehthoe removedneveeigrhnmboeunrthcoeomdpeilnedto thethe
Government of Morocco, who yielded. The Spanish Go-
vernment then made further demands and
of Morocco again yielded, and
so
t went on until at last the
i
Government of Morocco 'toldthe other Powers of Europe
and the British Minister that it
go on acceding to the propositions
was impossible. for them to
Govern-
ment, and that if they were Ll:edof.the Spanish
to war the responsi-
bility must rest with the Spanish Government.n. Hostilities
did break out, and the Spaniards were-
lost 20,000 men in the course of a fewmonthl
le3toTrihoeus. Theyl
a few miles and a desultory warfare took place, but
succeeded in obtaining what they wanted—an indemnitythey.
in
money —20,000,000 of piasters. The Government of Spain
have already succeeded in getting 7,000,000 of piasters from
the Government of Morocco, but the latter Government
now say that it is impossible for them to go on paying these
large sums of money, and then what does Spain do? The
house will hardly believe it. There is at this moment an
immense army collected in the south of Spain, and there is
also prepared a large fleet or squadron, the commander-in-
chief of which has visited the port of El Araiche and has
threatened to occupy Mogador, which is the port of the
capital of Morocco. There are numbers of British mer-
chants not only in Mogador, but throughout the whole
empire of Morocco, for, AS I have said, nine-tenths of the
trade of that country passes through British hands. I put
it to the house and to the Goverzkummt wiAtller this iater.: