The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-01 00:00:00

that at this moment its-importation of foreign goods is-1
larger than that even of Newcastle. We therefore propose
that there should be a member for Hartlepool. For the same
reason that it is a place where the shipping and mercantile
interest of the country are conspicuous, we ar of opinion
that Birkenhead ought to be represented. Hear, tear.)
There is a part of Staffordshire which we th nk deserves
and requires the consideration of this hoa . It is that
district which is called "the black country," where an im-
mense distinctive industry has arisen since the passing of
the Reform Act; and we therefore propose that West
Bromwich and Wednesbury shall return a member to
this house. I said that we had allotted 'only two
additional members to South Lancashire, because we
thought that there were two towns in that county whose
interests required to be represented in this house, andthere-
fore we recommend that members should be allotted to
Burnley and Staleybridge. That will be five additional
borough members. Turning now to the South of England,
we find a place in Surrey which ought to be represented—
viz., Croydon ; and in the county of Kent we propose that
a member should be allotted to Gravesend, a very ancient
town with a distinctive character, and in every sense of the
word, I think, entitled to a representative. (Hear, hear.)
I Now, sir, I will not say we have studied the map of Eng-
land, we have done more than that, At this moment I de-
clare that, if you are to complete the representation of Eng-
land according to the principle which influences her Ma-
jesty's Ministers .the principle that this house is to repre-
sent, not the numerical majority, but the interest of the
country—l do not see any other member required to corn.
plate that representation; and I believe that if we have
erred we have erred rather by anticipating the destiny of
what I believe will in time be great and thriving commu-
nities. (Hear.) Well, sir, how are these 15 members to
be supplied ? That is the question. (Hear.) They are to
be supplied in the spirit of the English constitution. Adopt-
ing a policy which has been recognised on previous occa-
sions, and which for two centuries has been adopted by the
Sovereigns and Parliaments of England—assuming, in
which I hope I am correct, that it is the opinion of this
house that its members ought not to be increased—(cheers)
we must find the means of representing these new interests
as means have been found before under similar circum-
stances—(a laugh)--and in the same constitutional spirit.
It is sometimes said that there are constituencies in this
country so small that it is an indefensible anomaly to per-
mit them to exist. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) I entirely
disagree with the gentleman who cheered me. I do not
arguments can be urged in favour of a
thi that
constituency of 1,000 than one of 500, and I should be
very much surprised if the honourable gentleman, ingeni-
ous as he may be, could urge them. There are, it is true,
some constitnenies which certainly cannot be defended
if the numerical majority is to govern England;
but there are some very small constituencies which
may perform a very important part in the represen-
tation of the principles upon which. the English consti-
tution is founded, which are still upheld in this house,
and still revered in this country. (Hear, hear.) I will
take an instance. In all those rattling schemes of disfran-
chisement---(a laugh)—with which we were favoured dur
ing the autumn, when every gentleman thought that he
could sit down at his table and reconstruct the venerable
fabric of the English constitution, if there was one point
more than another on which those -Utopian meddlers agreed,
if there was one enemy which they all agreed, determined,
and resolved to hunt to death, it was the borough of Arun-
del. (A laugh.) There every vice of the system seemed to
be congregated—a small population, a small constituency,
absolute nomination. Well, now, sir, that is very well for
autumnal agitation; but let us see how it practically works
in the ancient and famous society of which it is our pride
and privilege to be members. here are 900,000 Roman
Catholics in England, scattered and dispersed in every town
and county—of course a minority. What means have they
of being represented in this house, especially in the pre-
sent, as I deem it, unfortunate state of feeling in England
with regard to our Roman Catholic fellow-subjects ? (Hear,
hear.) There is one English Roman Catholic member of
Parliament, a man who bears a name that will ever be hon-
oured by England and Englishmen—(hear, hear)—and
practically, and in the spirit of the English constitution,
the 900,000 Roman Catholics of England, men of ancient
lineage and vast possessions, whose feelings all must re-
spect even if they do not agree with them in every particu-
lar, find a representative in the borough of Arundel. That
is the practical working of our constitution. (Cheers.) Yon
talk of the small numbers of the constituency of Arundel.
900,000 Roman Catholics I Why, it is more than the West
Riding of Yorkshire; it is double the Tower Hamlets.
(Laughter and cheers.) Therefore, sir, we are not to say,
because a constituency is small, hat is the source from
which we must inevitably draw the constitutional means of
completing the representation of England. The house will
do me the justice of observing that by the measure which,
on the part of the Government, I have placed before them
to-night, whatever arrangements may be made with exist-
ing boroughs to find means of effecting the representation of
interests not represented without increasing the numbers
of this house, no man will be disfranchised. By adopting
this principle of identity of suffrage, even if a man loses
the member who has represented his borough he still may
go to the poll or send his voting paper ; and, under all cir-
cumstances, that is a compensation which was never offered
in previous schemes of Parliamentary reform. (Hear, hear.)
We do not feel it our duty to recommend to Parliament
that any borough represented by a single member, like
Arundel, should lose that member. (Hear. hear.) We want,
in order to complete the representation of the country, 15
seats in this house. To procure those seats we must fix on
'some rule that mustnecessarily be arbitrary. The only con-
dition that the house has a right to make, and which all
should be glad to concede, is that that rule should be fairly
applied. In the last census, if you throw your eye over its
Parliamentary results, you ill find there are 15 boroughs
represented by two members each, and the population of
which is under 6,000. Only 15 boroughs ? It will be an
admirable opportunity for a display of patriotism (laughter)
—an opportunity seldom offered by the circumstances and
occasions of society—to the members of those places. (A
laugh.) I have no personal feeling on this subject. Ido
most sincerely and ardently hope that when there is a new
Parliament we may all meet again (a laugh) ; but if these
15 boroughs now represented by two members each, though
with a population under 6,000, would consent, without our
using force to compel them, to make this concession (laugh-
ter) we should complete the representation of the country
according to the principles that I believe to be those upon
which our representation ought to rest. (Hear, hear.)
Therefore, Sir, in the bill which seen will be in the hands
of members there are provisions that the 15 boroughs in
question shall in the next Parliament be represented by
only one member each. (Cries of Name, name.) The house
lam sure, will consider my feelings. (A laugh.)' I shall
take care that every gentleman, I hope to-morrow morning
will receive the schedule containing the names of these
boroughs • but I see no necessity, while I think it would be
invidious'to mention them now. (Cries of " No, no," and
"Name.") I regret to be compelled to introduce a question
which may become of a personal character (a laugh), but as
the house insists on it I must read the names of boroughs
which, at presented represented by two members, are in
future to return only one each. They are Honiton, Thet-
ford, Totnes, Harwich, Evesham, Wells, Richmond,
Marlborough, Leominster, Lymington, Ludlow, An-
dover, Knaresborough, Tewkesbury, and Maldon.heers
a
and laughter.) I have now, sir, touched upon those
topics which it was my duty to lay before the house this
evening. I have omitted many things that I ought to have
said, and I have no doubt I may have said some things that
I ought to have omitted. Such errors are inevitable in
treating so large and so various a theme, but I am sure this
house will remember that there will be many opportunities
for me to enter into necessary explanations, and will treat
an occasion like the present with generous forbearance.
(Hear, hear.) Sir, having described as clearly as I could
the principal provisions of our bill to the house, I shall say
no more. I believe that this is a measure wise, prudent,
and adequate to the occasion. I earnestly hope the house
may adopt it. I believe, sir, it is a Conservative measure,
using that epithet in no limited or partial sense, but in the
highest and holiest interpretation of which it is capable. I
can say sincerely that those who framed this measure are
men who reverence the past, who are proud of the present,
and who are confident of the future. Such as it is, I now
submit it for the consideration of the House of Commons,
convinced that they will deal with it as becomes the repre-
sentatives of a wise and an understanding people. (Loud
and general cheers.) The right hon. gentleman concluded
by moving for leave to bring in the bill.
Mr. BAXTER (who was at first imperfectly heard, from
the noise occasioned by members leaving the house) said
that, under the circumstances of the case, he would not
detain the house many minutes. He thought that the right
hon. gentleman had not sufficiently met the requirements
of Scotland and Ireland. The right hon. gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had himself furnished the
strongest argument in answer to his own statement. He
had stated that with regard to the metropolis there was
scarcely a member in the house who had not an interest
in the metropolis, and on the same principle it might be
said that there was scarcely a member who had not some
interest, direct or indirect, in either Ireland or Scotland.
Scotland claimed to be put upon terms of perfect equality
with-England and Ireland, and she claimed 19 additional
representatives. Was it right, he askl,d; that there should
be no county in Scotland with,. more 'than one member ?
Take the great county of Lanark, for, instance, was it fair
that it should oily have one representative ? The right
hon. gentleman had not said a single word with regard to
Scotland, and he left the house in perfect darkness as to;
the mode in which he intended to deal with the representa-
tion of that portion of the empire. Looking at the measure
of the Government he complained that it was defective, at
least in the sense that it omitted all mention of either
Ireland or Sootland. He did not believe that the measure
would•prove,a" settlement of the question; but that, on the
contrary, it- would prove the commencement of a great
national agitation, and perhaps lead to an outbreak of feel-
Aig which neither the Government nor the house were pre-
yawed to meet: (Hear, hear.) He was in favour of a£s
_franchise in towns, as he considered such a measure would
,let:in'a large and deserving class to a share in the repre-
sentation. The bill might please some parties in the house,
but he confessed he was dissatisfied with it, and he feared
it would tend to fan the flame of agitation now smoulder-
ing through the country. He begged to move the amend-
wentE of which he had given notice, namely, " That it is
tof the people in expedient to consider the laws relating' to the representa-
ion
Englandand Wales and Scotland and
Ireland not separately butng
in on
one measure." (B ear, hear.)
Sir J. OGIL
VY seconded the amendment, which was
put from the chair. ,ft
Sir C. LEWIS asked ' '
the Chancellor of the Exchequer
• whether he proposed t
to the four vacant to make any arrangement with respect
St. Albans--; whether he orthe boroughs of Sudbury and
any unrepresented places, intendedor would
to assign those seats to
the number of members f the house diminish to that extent
Mr. HEADLAM said, in consenting
of the bill, he of course reserved toni
himselfgto the introduction
the fullest right,
if it should appear desirable, of r
endeavouring
pr in ciple of disfranchisement beyond the u .to extend the
nit proposed by
the right hon. gentleman. He would give his determined
and decided opposition to deprive persons who now voted
for counties in resoct of property within boroughs of their
county suffrage. There was a sort of tacit understanding
that the county representatives should be selected from
some dozen or 20 families, and, •.,generally speaking, they
were the sons of noblemen resident within their respective
counties, or the members of influential county families.
With the exception of South Durham, and one or two other
districts, the county members belonged exclusively to this
small class, and he saw no reason for endeavouring to
;ender that class still more restricted and exclusive by dia.
frlnchising per Sons who had hitherto exercised the fran-
chise in Counties. He thought, also, that it the
f
objectionable to confer the right of voting in boroughs upon
40s. freeholders. The effect of such a measure would be
immediately apparent in the small nomination boroughs.
He was, however, desirous that the bill should be intro-
duced, and that it should receive fulland fair consideration,
and so far from him offering it any factious opposition,
would do all in his power to render it a complete and satis-
factory measure.
Mr. DODSON expressed a wish that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer would inform the house by. what number he
calculated the county voters would be diminished if, accord-
ing to his proposal, those freeholders who had now a vote for
a county in respect of property situated within a Parliamen-
tary borough were taken out of the list of county voters ;
also, whether a freeholder now holding a 40s. franchise