The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-29 00:00:00

source of supply of men for the army. Connected with
this was the question of national defence and other con-
siderations of great importance. If we were to go on
as we had hitherto done we must always be too late—
for this reason, that the Government on an emergency
had to come down to the house to ask for money to get
men, when the men ought to be ready to their handy.
They never asked for money until they were in pressing
need of the men. No doubt there were many more dif•
ficulties in this subject, and many more things to be
considered than appeared at first Eight. For instance,
there was the number of the militia to be taken into
consideration, the manner in which it was to be raised,
and its connexion with the army—whether it should be
in immediate eonnexion or, as at present, in a state of
semi-antagonism. Then, too, there was the question of
the staff, of military education generally, and, above all,
of the relation which ought to exist between the duties
of the Minister at War and the Commander-in-Chief.
The noble lcrd at the head of the Government, of all
men in the empire, was by his experience, his abilities,
and his popularity best fitted to carry out some rational
system of military organisation, and if he would under-
take and complete that task he would deserve the grati-
tude of the country. (Hear, hear.)
Sir W. WILLIAMS could assure the gallant general
the member for Westminster that he was under a misap-
prehension in supposing that there was any favouritism
shown in the examinations for commissions by which unfit
persons were admitted into the service. The proportion
of those who came for ward and were rejected was between
one-fourth and one-third of the whole number of candi-
dates. He had sent a cousin of his down to Sandhurst
not very long ago to be examined fur a commission, and,
without wishing any favouritism to be shown to him, he
wrote to Sir Harry Jones, asking him to give him that
encouragement which a youth would stand in need of at
such a time. In the evening, however, he had the morti-
fication of getting a letter to tell him that his cousin had
been rejected. He prepared himself again, and went up
for re examination ; but, more through fear, probably,
than want of attainments, he again failed. He had had
under his command officers who had passed through
Woolwich, and those who, owing to the exigencies of
the service had been admitted without going that institu-
tion, and, though the zeal and good conduct of these
latter had been above all praise, yet, owing to the want
of a military training, they were not equal to those who
had passed through Woolwich. Those who had charge
of Woolwich laboured under the mistake of bringing the
pupils in at too advanced an age, which had the effect of
making most of the officers in the scientific corps old men
before they could attain high command. He was as
strong an advocate of competitive examination in the line
and in the two scientific corps as any one ; but he hoped
that the military authorities would continue to retain the
right of nomination. It would be a very dangerous ex-
periment for them to relinquish that right. He wished,
too, to see a real bona fide staff corps established. When
addressing the house on a former occasion on this sub-
ject he had expressed his regret at the abolition of the
old corps of draughtsmen and surveyors, by which step
the army had been deprived of that which was necessary
for its efficiency, and he hoped to see the day when those
corps would be revived. The French had a beautiful
staff corps, and their system ought to be adopted by UP.
The questions of promotion by purchase and military
education were very intimately connected. Without pur-
chase there would be favouritism and affection. He had
seen more regiments of the line than most officers, and
he bad always remarked in what an extraordinary
manner the system of purchase kept up the youthfulne.s
of these regiments. In the scientific c ‘rps, where there
was no purchase, the case was different. At 40 years of
age he himself was only a second captain. No doubt,
under the purchase system, there was a certain amount
of vexation experienced when one man purchased over
another ; but that was nothing to the heartburning which
was occasioned when an officer was put over another
on account of some pretended superiority of talent or in-
tellectual attainments. During the debate of the previ-
ous evening the right hon. gentleman the President of
the B3ard of Control had spoken of the want of that
proper communication between the officer and the Sepoy
which perhaps had occasioned a great deal of the misery
we now deplored, and bad asked how that evil could
be remedied. The remedy which he (Sir W. Williams)
would recommend woule be not to give a single step of
rank In any native regiment without an examination,
not to give a lieutenancy to an ensign until he had
made considerable progress in the native language, an
to give no man his company until be was a perfect
master of the Hindostanee. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PALK had hoped the gallant general would
have taken a broader view of the subject, that be
would have given! the house the benefit of his great
experience and practical knowledge, that he would
have shown the evil of the present system of pro-
motion both in the staff and in the line, and that be
would have offered some suggestions for improving the
organization of the army. He had expected the gallant
general to have instanced the case of other professions,
and to have shown that in them every one had to
undergo a competitive examination at college or else-
where. He had expected him to have drawn from these
premises the fact that men of vast knowledge and great
acquirements who had attained the highest and proudest
positions in the State had risen from the humbler classes,
affording in their own persons a proof that education
would elicit the best attributes of man, and that it was
not to birth alone that we could trust for a due per-
, format:me of the duties that were required of us. The
gallant general might have instanced the case of our own
army, essentially aristocratic—much more so than any
army on the continent—in which few men had risen
from the ranks to high positions. He had thought that
the gallant officer would have referred to the ga lautry
of our officers—the steadiness and forbearances in times
of difficulty of our men, and that he would have shown
that that was owing to the aristocratic element which so
strongly impregnated our armies, and which sent out
young men proud of their name, of their faintly, and of
their country, to gain fresh honours and add new laurels
to our fame. He had thought that the gallant general
might have gone on and have proposed, without bringing
the two classes into collision, a test of education which
should insure to all who passed an examination a com-
mission in the army ; and that he might have said that,
great and glorious as the deeds of our army bad been,
the time had come when more liberal ideas were preva-
lent, and when it was essential for the benefit of the
country that the organization of the army should be im-
proved by more comprehensive and extended views. The
first step towards such improvement would be to sh)w
to young men that energy and talent would insure advance-
ment, and that, if they did their duty well and gallantly and
at the same time acquired those scientific attainments•
which were essential to their position, whether they had the
good luck to be the friends of the Government or not,
their talent and energy would be recognised, and their
promotion would be as certain as if they were nephews
of the Secretary of State for War. At present such un-
fortunately was not the case, as too many instances
would prove. He held in his hand, for example, a letter
signed by a gallant officer who had entered the army
many years ago, and whose services, perhaps, had been
long forgotten. That officer served years in the artillery,
and passed through all the courses of drill and practical
instruction at Woolwich several times. In the spring of
1825 he accepted the offer of the Duke of York te volun-
teer into the line, on the promise that everything that
could properly be done for the advancement of those
who so volunteered should be done. He went t)rough a
long period of service. In 1831 he was appointed by
Lord Clare as assistant and secretary to the mission pro-
ceeding to Scinde. Having been upwards of 16 years a
subaltern he purchased his rank as captain, and at
length, having embarked all his fortune in the service,
and when it was too late to think of devoting himself to
any other profession, he was compelled, for the sake of
his family, to sell his commission. He then addressed a
letter to Lord Panmure, from whom he received the
following reply

those highly connected. (Hear.) It was necessary that
our men and officers should be picked from the whole
of the British nation. (Hear, hear.) 'What he
would suggest was that in place of resolutions which,
after all, meant but little and carried hut little weight
with them, the hon. and gallant general (Sir De Lacy
Evans), and others who him had gassed a 1 irg lifeir,
the service of their country, should bring forward some
plan by which men who adopted the profession of arms
might be assured that talent, industry, and perseverance
would reap for them that reward which seemed at pre-
sent only to be obtained by patronage. (Hear.) He bad
been favoured with a pamphlet which denied the state-
ment often made that the army of this country had bean
ruined by the parsimony of the House of Commons. In
this pamphlet the cost of the Austrian and the English
armies were cootrasted, by which it appeared that " for
the outlay of 9,713,974/. we kept on foot an effective
force of 120,000 men, whereas this sum would have suf-
ficed in Austria to pay and maintain 540,000 men on the
peace establishment." He could not, therefore, quite
give his adherence to the statement that the parsimony
of the House of Commons had destroyed or injured the
army. (Hear.) It had been the long mismanagement
which had injured the army ; and he thought that if the
matter could be investigated it would be found that our
system, as compared with that of foreign countries, was
more expensive and by no means so efficient. (Hear.)
What he contended was that if they were going to change
their system of promotion in the army they ought not to
proceed by resolution, but to lay down some practical
plan, and come to Parliament for the means to carry it
out, for he did not think that small palliatives for evils,
if they were evils, were worthy of this house or of the
country.

; practice to establish a comparatively slight test of capa-
city in the case of an offiler upon entrance, but to com-
pel him to undergo a most severe examination some four
or five years later, when he was about to bs raised to the
rank of lieutenant. Now, that he must confess he re-
garded as a plan most superior to the system which
would make the efficiency of an officer depend entirely
upon the acquirements which he happened to possess
when he first obtained his commission. (Hear.) The
knowledge to which a young man of the age of 16 or 17
might have attained was influenced quite as much by
the circumstances of his position as by his personal cha-
racter or capacity ; but the knowledge of the same per-
son at the age of 20 or 21 would depend in a great niea,
sure upon the use which he had made of his time, and
upon his disposition to be industrious. (Hear, hear.)
He was, under these circumstances, strongly of opi-
nion that it would be most advisable not to hold out
to young men the prospect that aheir education was
finished the moment they entered the army, but,
upon the contrary, the necessity of acquiring
further information as a means of contributing to their
promotion at a subsequent period should be impressed
upon their minds. Those various questions—namely, the
establishment of a fit excluding test for all persons in the
case of first enlistment, the throwing open a certain
number of commissions to competition, the granting of
pecuniary rewards to those who might be found deserv-
ing of the distinction, and the institution of a separate
examination for those officers who were about to be
. raised to the rank of captains or lieutenants—embraced,
he believed, all the educational means which, without
resorting to pedantic strictness, could well be applied to
the promotion of professional knowledge in the army at
large. With respect to the staff the case was, in his

Sir J. RAMSDEN believed it was universally ad- I
mitted that it was of the utmost importance to encourage
military education. The Government were engaged
in preparing a comprehensive scheme on that subjeet,
which he believed would meet all the exigencies of the
case. The first of the reports of the commission which
had been appointed to inquire in to the education of can-
didates for the military service had been received by the
Government, and copies of it would be furnished to the
house on the following day. It proposed that these can-
didates should be examined at head-quarters in London,
under the direction of the Council of Education, and
that the examination should be conducted by military
and civilian examiners, to be recommended annually by
that council to the Commander-in-Chief, and to be ap-
,
pointed by him after receiving the concurrence of the
Secretary of State. The candidate would have to pro-
duce a certificate from a clergyman to prove that he had
been duly instructed in the principles of religion. If he
were a member of the Church of England he would be
required to produce a certificate of confirmation. The
candidate would also have to produce a certificate from
the schoolmaster by whom he had been educated, testi-
fying to his general good conduct. The subjects on
which he would be examined would be divided into com-
pulsory and optional. He would be required to pass an
examination in mathematics, algebra, simple equations,
the first four books of Euclid, and, in addition, he would
be compelled to show that he had a considerable know-
ledge of French and English composition and of the his-
tory of England and its dependencies, and also of geogra-
phy. These subjects did not embrace by any means the
whole of the education that would be required, because
the candidates would be required to pass an examination
in certain subj-cts which, to some extent, it would be
left to himself to select. He might select any branch of
the higher mathematics or some modern language in ad-
dition to French, or a more extended knowledge of
Li tory and geogaaphy, physical science, or a know-

opinion, of a character somewhat different, and he could
not help expressing his satisfaction at the statement
which had been made by the boa. gentleman the Un-
der-Secretary for War, to the effect that the new training
colleges for the members of the staff were intended to be
based upon the competitive principle, both with respect
to the first admission to them and in regard to the hon-
ours and distinctions which might be subsequently ob-
tained. The objections which he had urged against
the adoption of such a competitive system were, in the
first place, that in consequence of the way in which our
troops were scattered all over the world, the system
could not be carried into execution ; and, in the second
place, that, even if it could be carrie 1 Into execution,
it was a scheme to which it was undesirable to have
recourse, inasmuch as, whatever test of the intellectual
advantages of a candidate it might afford, it presented
no proof of his moral or phy,ical qualifications. Now,
in answer to the first objection he might observe that
it was, at all events, of no force so far as the military
colleges were concerned, while he might state in reply to
the second that, in his opinion, the competitive test,
if fairly applied, afforded a much better proof of the
moral than even of the intellectual qualifications of
the candidate. Judging, for instance, from the analogy
presented by the acquisition of academic honours, he
did not believe that ability was the main requisite
for success. A far more essential possession was indus-
try—(hear, hear)—which was generally found to be
the accompaniment in youth of a good moral character.
He might add that the danger that men possessing great
intellectual powers, but who were physically unfit for
military service, might in great numbers obtain commis-
sions under the operation of such a competitive system
was not one which it was probable would prevail to any
great extant, inasmuch as, practically speaking, it would
be found that men who were physically feeble would not
enter the army for the simple reason that they would be
likely to succeed better in some other profession. The

ledge of drawing. At first sight it might appear that system of:competition furnished at all events, a better tes
sufficient importance was not attached in that scheme of a man's efficiency for the military service than either
to military education, but he thought it would be wealth, or political connexion, or mere seniority, or pro-
foun 1 that that was not so. Though they did not say motion obtained through the influence of favour. (Hear.)
that a classical education was an indefensible qualifica- It might, it was true, be regarded as having too demo.
tion for an officer, yet they believed that it was very cratic a tendency ; but, in his opinion, there was no mode
desirable that that literature should be encouraged in of excluding a man from the higher branches of the ser-
every possible way. The scheme of education was of a vice at once so efficacious and likely to prove so gene-
general characters It did not require any purely min. rally acceptable to the country as that by which an edu-
tary knowledge. He could refer to some of the highest cational test was established, which if he could not pass
authorities in this country, to France, and every other he should be entitled to promotion. (Hear.) He would
continental military nation as witnesses in favour of that only add that the subject was one which they were that
part of the scheme. Another reason why the Govern- evening discussing upon imperfect information. When
went were desirous of not requiring from the candidates the report of the commission which was now sitting upon
anything beyond a general liberal education as a founda- the que-tion of education in the army was laid before
tion on which to raise a professional knowledge after- them they would be in a better position to come to a
wards was their anxiety to draw to the army as much as conclusion with reference to the important topic of mill-
possible such as had been educated in the great public tary promotion. Meantime he should content himself with
schools of the country. (Hear, hear.) They were of the expreseion of his approval of the measure which the
opinion that in an intellectual point of view no education Government prof ored to adopt, as being, to use an ordi-
imparted in this country was superior to that imparted nary phrase, a step in the right direction. (hear.)
in those schools. Moreovor, the general habits of dis- Mr. S. HERBERT—I am indebted to the house to
cipline and subordination, the healthy and manly tone. so great an extent for the indulgence which, when I
which obtained in them, was deemed to be the best pre- addressed it upon this subject upon previous occasions,
paration for a military career. (Hear, hear.) And I received at the hands of its members, that I will
there was a further reason why a professional know- endeavour to prove my gratitude for their past kindness
ledge was not exacted from the candidate, because it by now trespassing upon their attention for as shirt a
was felt that, if he should fail in passing his examination time as possible. It is, I think, of importance that
and might wish upon that failure to enter into some we should this evening begin to take stock of our
other profession, the time which might have been occn- agreements and disagreements with respect to the ques-
pied in acquiring a military knowlodge might be regarded tion under our notice. My hon. and gallant friend the
as wa-ted. The Government then did not altogether member for Norfolk seems to object to a scheme of com-
agree with the hon. and gallant member for Westminster petitive examination for commissions in the line, and I
as to the examination to be required on entrance into concur with him so far as to deem it desirable that we
the service. With regard to the staff, he agreed with should wait to see the result of the system of competition
much that had fallen from the hon. and gallant member in the case of the Ordnance corps before we give a de-
for Westminster. He could not atate in detail the plan cided opinion with respect to the expediency of adopting
of the Government, but it had been decided that en- it in reference to first commissions in the line. There
trance to the staff should be by competition, that at the appears to me, I confess, to be this difficulty with regard
close of the course of study there*should be an examine- to the establishment of competitive examinations for
tion, that the examination should be competitive, and those commissions, viz., that the qualifications necessary
that certificates should be given which should constitute to constitute a good officer cannot always be made the
the qualification of employment upon the staff. The subject of educational test. So far as intellectual quali-
bon' and gallant officer wished to preserve the preFent ties are concerned, you can ascertain them by that test ;
system of cadets for the Ordnance Corps. The but if you admita competitive examination, and no other
Government were aware of the advantages of this test, men may enter the army who have no qualification
system, which was established by the present beyond what that examination proves them to possess.
Mini-ter for War. No scheme of operations had been ac- I confess I rather agree with the view of those who are
tually arranged, but a plan was under the consideration in favour of a competitive examination only, because you
of the Government for amalgamating the military educa-
may extend it not only to intellectual, but to moral and
tion of Woolwich and Sandhurst in one military nolloge, physical qualities. You may ascertain what a man's
in which all the preliminary military education of the strength is with the gloves on or at single stick ; or you
country might be given. After preliminary examinations
may put him into a field surrounded by four stiff Leicet-
and after being educated in this college for a certain terehire fences and see how he gets out of it. (A laugh.)
time, it was proposed that there should be a complete These points are not immaterial in the creation of good
examination of the pupils, and that admission should be officers, though they are not! tests usually applied by exa-
given to the Ordnance Corps in the order of that exami-
miners. My hon. and gallant friend (Gen. Windham)
nation, those who passed it with success being allowed has put the case of two candidates for a commission in
to select an admission into the line if they preferred it to the line—the one a generous, liberal, fine fellow, who
entering either of the Ordnance Corps. This would be a
has been rather idle with regard to his studies, and the
great advantage. He believed that in some of the mill- other a learned bookworm, whose eyesore worn out with
tail schools of the continent all the pupils best qualified r dng,
the active duties of a soldier's life. I don't want
by ability and instruction entered the Ordnance Corps, unfit
tifor who is a bad horseman, and who is altogether
leaving only those pupils for the line who could not cam- however, to substitute the bookworm for the fine fellow,
pets with the Ordnance Corps. The Governmentthought
but to get hold of the fine fellow and to take care that he
that by throwing open certain commissions, and by giv- knows his duties thoroughly, Under the present eye-
ing gratuitous commissions in the line as well as•the
Ordnance Corps they might induce some of the most
successful candidates at the Sandhurst examinations to inefficient,t er n you
and have the bookworm—the man physically
you-Constantly have him. As to the fine
may
fell ore I agree in the opinion of Sir C. Napier, who says
elect the line in preference to the Ordnance Corps, so
there is no officer in the world like the English gentleman
that the best men might thus be spread more evenly over —I don t mean in the sense in which that term is some-
the service. The Government most fully concurred with times used, applying only to the landed gentry, but amen
the hon, and gallant member for Westminster in his re- '
of liberal education, who possesses the advantages which
commendations of "assured encouragements" being given result trove such an education; An hon. and gallant
" for proficiency and general fitness for advancement" officer has exp reseed a fear lest you should establish too
and this recommendation would be entirely carried out high a standard of examination ; but why have too high
as soon as the system of competitive examination could a standard of examination ? I think the danger is the
be applied to entrance to the staff. The hon. and gal- other way. Standards of examination are not apt to rise.
!ant officer's fifth recommendation, that a council of On the contrary, they have a great tendency to fail, and
military education should be established, had already if you insist upon men otherwise competent to be officers
been adopted. After mature consideration, however, it Passing through an examination for their first commis-
had been determined that it should be composed excite sions I don't think there is any danger of the standard
sively of military members, and not of " military and being placed too high. I do not give any opinion on
civilian members," as recommended by the hon. and the subject of competition for entrance into the ordnance
gallant officer. It was thought better to 1 iok for the corps. You have, I believe, the same class of men as you
counterpoise to the exclusively mi'itary character of the had beiore—neither better nor worse. I know it is not
council in the appointment of civilians by whom the ex- a popular doctrine that i-, is of any importance that tee
aminations for commissions should be eonducted. It was army should be officered by gentlemen, but I hold that
not the intention of the Commander-in-Chief to take part it is so. (hear.) I will tell you why I entertain that opi-
in the deliberations of the council, but the military edu- niou. Our object ought to be to get that class of men
cation of officers of the army would be under his control, who will make the best officers. Prove to me that pea-
and the council would report to him, so that everything sante make the best officers, and I say "Let al your
relating to the council would pass through his hands and officers be peasants." I think, however, that in dealing
through the office of the Minister for War. He could with a question of this kind you ought not to consider
not say that the plan of the Government entirely agreed the interests of any class, but your object ought to be to
with that of the hen. and gallant officer ; but, although obtain men who can most efficiently discharge the duties
there might be a difference upon minor points, yet the they are required to perform. England is a nation
Government and his hon. and gallant friend would be essentially not military with regard to its interior habits
acting in the saran spirit. He trusted that his hon. and and organisation. The habit of military organizltion is
gallant friend, seeing what had already been done and foreign to its people. A- the meet complete discipline
was being done, would not press his resolution, which, if and thorough obedience are necessary to the efficiency
carried, would prevent 'the Government from carrying of an army, you cannot afford to throw away any ele-
out their views with perfect freedom. Next session the ment which will secure those objects ; and one of the
house would be In a condition to consider the whole plan main elements of our army is that the peasants who
in all its details. (Hear.) compose the private soldiers have a natural tendency to
Col. NORTH was glad to hear that the examinations toll tw the lead of a gentleman by whom they are offi-
for the Ordnance Corps would be removed to London. cored. That is my only reason for entertaining the opi-
slany of the boys now examined failed from fright. The mien I have expressed. You cannot persuade men that,
examination lasted frcm 10 to 6, and it would be a great in other professions, it ii a disadvantage to be a gentle-
advantage if it were spread over two days, arid he hoped man, and, indeed, the cUmmon sense of mankind leads
that the examiners would be men who would encouraee to a contrary conclusion. The hon. gentleman opposite
the boys to answer, and not frightea them. He was glad (&tr. Pelk) says he does not see how a system of army
to see the system of examination a'lopted, but he feared education can be carried to any height compatibly with
that it would deprive the service of many young fello Ws the system of purchase. I don't see any such difficulty.
who could not get through their Euclid, but who made Whether a man rises by seniority aided by purchase,
excellent officers whenever the wen were to be led in any whether by seniority without purchase, or whether
service of peril. There would be some danger he thought by selection, I don't understand why you cannot have a
in making the examination too high. He felt it to be standard of txernination which will secure that a man,
1 his duty before he sat down to impress upon the Govern- however he bas obtained his promotion, is fit to di:.-
went the fact that they allowed the militia to disappear charge the duties of his position. There are one or two
almost altogether, and reduced that branch of the ser- other points upon which I may be allowed to say a few
vice, in fact, to the position of being little more than a words. I have heard it said that a sore feeling has been
militia in name. (Hear.) produced in the army by the statements that have been
Lord STANLEY said that the hon. and gallant gen. made by civilians with respect_te
.thaencdontdhuactt
tohfegemneryael
tleman the member for Wesminster had drawn a very omffie tic et
r fso r
cio mrme
aaedingediuncatohon fdinld
the army is regarded
wise and proper distinction between the qualifications by them as a sletirn.g I think the latter idea is unfounded,
which it was desirable that a person should possess for but I also think that the civilians of this cocatry have
admission into the army and those which should entitle judged officers in high command with , great
auot
infafirnesesd.
our ou orm
him to be placed upon the staff. He quite concurred in a
(Hear, hear.) The traditions of
f the most remarkable men
the opinion that there were many men who possessed upon
England the
eeyu
ec r
ci eases
duocfed"e o
and we are disposed to complain
but very little book-learning or very little capacity for that every officer prosent in command of an expedition does
acquiring it woo, although they might not in conse- not possess the genius of the Duke of Wellington. Now,
quence be fitted to hold high commands, yet would be how many great generals has England pr,,,r.iadkuece.cdrt?)mWwheielo
found in a subordinate position admirably adapted to you may count them on your fint:;%-l. I
will, Wellington,
head a forlorn hope or to lead a charge in the field, But a%adt-ITirveettabb•
iPeterborougleo, if
further you find yourselves
although he, upon that account, deemed it inexpedient t
sn another; clualewaennd yiotucagnnot be expected that every
that competition should be made the only means of ob• man itt eoatinoulnd of an arialy should not only ;exhibit
I the experience, of a
taking admission into the army, he was prepared to 1 t', capacity, out should possesset) So far, then, we
maintain that it was highly desirable that a certain pro. I Welli:;s'a:n Or a Marlborong
..
I maintain that the
portion of those commissions which happened to be at have judged very unfairly. -Dus - --ev, " Here
• and lea ....
the disposal of the Government should be open to corn. army may retort upon civiliaes, Y - - i
we have had a war conducted during three or four a. ars,
petition upon the part of the community at large. lie and 3, ''
e civilian who has shown
tcannctt point out
,Otini
was also of opinion that as at the universities scholar- any - great for directing the opera-
ships and exhibitions were granted partly as marks of tionsgofatheaPall aptitude
e(Hor gelhil k I hide always felt that
ar. s ear, hear. .
~
.-., {'Lin su a_
merit, partly as substantial incentives to industry,• the 'so it most important question in C0115(.X1311 c%lta, .
would be poeeiele at a very -e 11 co • sin cast to the country to I ject is the mode of admission to tbo staff'. A oalla:t'
, ,
devise a system of military prizes which should be dis il efficer, whosits .
me, his recommended lust
near •we
pensed to the youths at our military college There --
.8. was shout:! copy the French system. I confess that lam
another point to which, although it did not come within' vet much •,• '. 3 afoot] of adopting aey plan welch is merely
the terms of the resolution
her for Westminster
,be might be allowed briefly to ad- the P'' 1
_cu far dualities and habits of the British army, arid
vest. The house was aware
that in the navy it was *he I don't believe that '
the
lo fetich system of a separate staff

"War-office, June 24.
"Sir,—l am directed by Lord Paniuure to acknowledge
the receipt of your letter, containing a statement of your
past services, which he has perused with great interest ;
and in reply I am directed to state that, while Lord Pal-
mare most sincerely sympathises with you in your misfor-
tunes, his lordship deeply regrets it is not in his power to
remedy complaints of such long standing, or to reverse acts
which you have characterised in such strong language.
" I have the honour to be, &c.,
" J. GROOMES, Assistant-Secretary."
In that instance, therefore, because the complaints were
of long standing, there was no remedy for that gallant
officer. But the system which existed then existed still,
and he would submit to the house anoth,T instance which
happened very recently. It was the case of an officer
who during the last war, possessing high military attain
meats, and being a first rate linguist, distinguished him-
self in the field, but having no military interest, at last,
with the greatest difficulty, succeeded in obtaining a
staff appointment, and proving himself so highly effi-
cient in organisation and detail was intrusted with a
high responsibility, anal to the command of a brigade,
which he performed with the greatest credit, winning
the universal approbation of those who bore witness to
the extreme judgment and ability he displayed, and for
which he receive,' the highest testimonials. That officer
was at this moment a subaltern in the army. He was
brought up for the service, for which he was speaialy
educated ; ho was a young man of great ability, and
was rather an extraordinary linguist, for he spoke
French, Spani-b, German, Italian, Turkish, and Russian
with a certain knowledge of Arabic, modern Greek, and
Persian. After the fire at Varna he was sent to Bulgaria
to collect stores for the commissariat, and in consequence
of his knowledge of the language and of his zeal, he, at a
time when the army was in the greatest difficulties, sent
down every day 30 waggon-loads of forage. He (Hr.
Palk) was not permitted to go very much into the case,
for the officer of whom he was speaking would be very
much shocked if hi : name or services were made public,
but he was satisfied no officer ever distinguishel himself
more for personal gallantry than this young man. Gee.
Pennefather, in a testimonial to which he was permitted
to refer, spoke highly of his services in connection with
the Italian Legion ; and yet, in spite of the services he
had rendered in the Crimea, in spite of the approbation
expressed with regard to his conduct, this young
officer was at the present moment doing duty as a
subaltern. He had been educated for the army, was
mightn arequire
anm to ow
skilled ii all the various languages which a soldier
in
service,
distinguished
n i shhaedd
cal nor fay
milarl n
the ,
interest, and neither himself
as
ra
pu-
g it was to be feared that.
like the gentleman whose case had previeudy been re-
ferred to, After faithfully serving his
Qen and , s
he might receive from the War-officeue at the end ofcounty
days such a later as that of Lord Panneure. It was ufo'r
this reason that he (ltr. Palk), as one who had tho
honour of holding a commission in her Majesty's ser-
vice, and as an independent member of this house, wished
to ask whether the army was in such a satisfactory
state as wool I induce young men of talent and energy
to seek for that advancement in it which, without bete-
rest, seemed denied to them ? And yet this country re-. ,
quired iu the army men of the highest talent. It would
no longer du to select officers from the small circle of

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY_ EVENING JULY 29, 1857,

corps rising by promotion within that c rps, and never I
going back to regimental duty, would be suitable to

the 3riti,h army. It would create a separate class,
which will be regarded with the greate,t j,ab,u,y, and
I believe the heat feature of our system is that the staff

officer, when not employed on the staff, goe; back to his
ordinary dutie3 and mixes with the regimental officer,.

I am not prepared to give an opinion as to the principle
of a competitive examination for first commissions, but
when once you have men who are good officers in your
service I see no objection to competition for staff ap-
pointments, or for admission into the staff school. I pro-
posed last year that those officers who most distin-
guished lh onselres in x teninatio, f for promotion should
compete for admission in the staff schools ; and I think
I understood that it is now the intention of her Majesty's
Government to establish an examination for the staff. I
understand the arrangement proposed by the general
order that any officer nominated to the staff should be
required to submit to examination by three officers ap-
pointed by the Horse Guards is to be abandoned. Such
an examination would come down to the candidate, and
would not attempt to establish a ieandard to which he
should rise. I consider that you ought to have a per-
manent body of examiners, who would subject all candi-
da' es to an equal test, and would be competent to ascer-
tain whether the attainments of candidates were the
result of cramming, or of study and application. (Hear,
hear). I think, also, that the education of the staff
should apply to aides-de-camp. They are required to
discharge most important duties, and very high respon-
sibility frequently attaches to them. Although it is not
their duty to direct operations, but to convey orders,
e'rcumstances may change before they arrive at the point
to which they are despatched, and they may be called
upon to exercise considerable discretion. If they are
only to be the bearers of me rsages, that duty might be
as well performed by ordinary Dragoons. They are
usually in personal attendance on the officers in com-
mand, and they are sure to be mentioned in despatcbes
and to obtain promotion, for the generals to whom they
are attached naturally speak of duties which are per-
formed under their own eyes. Ido not say that a
general officer may not be allowed to choose his own
personal staff, but he should be limited in his choice to
those persons who are on the list as having qualified
themselves for those duties which they will
be called upon to perform. I beg pardon of the house fur
detaining them upon these points, but what I want to
see is that the examination for the staff should be made
as practical as it is possible to make it. I see from the
report of the commission appointed to inquire' into the
education in foreign countries, that in Austria the exa-
mination is not only one of intellect, but that personal
and physical qualities are taken into consideration. I
know that we shall find it very difficult, but we must at-
tempt it if we wish to arrive at any practical result.
I cannot sit down without mentioning the name of one
gentleman who more than any one else has been instru-
mental in bringing this questi forward—l mean Mr.
Gleig, the chaplain-gen sal. That gentleman has been
one of the principal motive powers in stirring up this
question at the War-office ; and when I had the honour
of being connected with that department I derived the
greatest possible benefit from his advice and assistance,
and I have the greatest pleasure now in giving him the
credit he so well deserves. (Hear.) I regret, I must say,
the delay which has taken place in dealing with this
question. During the last year that I had the honour of
being Secretary at War, I laid upon the table a plan very
much like the one which has now been laid before us,
and which I hope will be carried out. Tne late 11011,0
of Commons received the plan which I proposed with
great indulgence, and, what was more to the purpose,
they voted the money for carrying it out ; but, neither
last year nor this year have I seen anything about the
matter in the estimates. lam willing, however, to
exercise patience, and I hope that next year the hon.
baronet will be prepared to ask for a vote to carry out a
plan which will be satisfactory to the country and ad-
vantageous to the efficiency of the service. (Rear.)
Major WARBUP,TON wished. as a member of one of
the instructive corps of the service, which had hitherto
received little encouragement, to express the gratifica-
tion which he had felt at the announcement of the hon.
baronet. That announcement would give new life and
energy to many an unfriended man in the army, who
would now see a fair field open for the development
to his abilities, inasmuch, as those valuable appointments
which had hitherto been open only to persons who pos-
sessed interest and connexion would now be open tO all.
It was of the greatest importance that the staff college
should be open to members of the instructive corps of the
service. In the case of the ordnance corps the system
of competition had hitherto proved roost successful, and
that system would, he hoped, be fully carried out to its
utmost ex-,ent.
Sir W. CODRINGTON did not think that compete
titive examination for a first commission was advisable,
as to establish that principle might shut out from the
army that particular class of men who made the best sol-
diers. As regarded the particular education for the
staff, he did not quite understand the ex'ent to which it
was proposed,to be carried, and he did not think that it
would be worth e bile at present to enter into any de-
tails upon the subject. The general principle appeared
to be admitted that there should be a competition among
officers of the line for an entry into the staff college.
Now, this difficulty would arise with regard to the staff.
Was the staff to be a distinct staff corps fur England,
or were omoers to be taken from regiments out of the
country I If officers of a regiment on service in India or
the colonies were allowed to come home to be examined
for staff appointments the effect would be detrimental to
the efficiency of the service ; and if they were not allowed
t r come home, then bow could the best men throughout
the service be chosen by competitive examination ? There
were one or two points in the resolution of the gallant
general to which ho was not disposed to give his con-
currence, and one was that part of the resolution which
referred to the appointment of a council of education.
As he understood the gallant general, his proposal was
that the council should be especially under the Secretary
for War acting independently of the Commander in
Chief, and that its duties should be to examine persons
for the Staff, taking away from their regiment for that
purpose officers on full pay. He did not think that
it was advisable even in matters of a civil nature
that the Secretary for War should be able to interfere
with the responsibility of the Commander-in-Chief for
the education and efficiency of the officers of the army
by taking them from their regiments. The result would
be a divided authority, and experience had shown the
danger of such a division. The establishment of a staff
college would cost a very large sum of money, and he
hoped that hon. members who were so anxious for the
establishment of that system would not hesitate when
they were asked to pay the bill. In Austria, h© be-
lieved, where such a system existed, the annual cost was
about 148,0001., and the amount required would be a
serious question to discuss is considering the estimate
which might be presented to Parliament. No one
doubted the advantage of giving an officer as good an
education as was possible. Education never did any
one any harm ; but it was very difficult to fix the
standard, and the house would remember that many men
might reach that standard without any of those other
qualities which in the army were particularly required.
Mention had been made of the appointment of a chief of
the staff, and he would therefore briefly refer to the sub-
j ct. The appointment of a chief of the staff was an
imitation of the French system, and in the French army
the principle was carried to an extreme degree. Not
only was there a chief of the staff of the army generally,
but every general division had his chief of the staff.
Now, he did not see why a general of division should not
be his own chief of the staff and communicate directly
with his own Taartermarter-general and adjutant-gene-
ral. Ile would only add that be was glad to find that
the general subject had excited the attention of the
Government and that the house had pressed it on,
though not unfairly in any way. He hoped, however,
that it would nut be carried to such an exclusive degree
as to lead to the idea that the practical part of the pro-
fession of an officer, which, after ail, was the main thine;
to keep in view, was to be subordinate to general educa-
tion. (Rear, hear.)
Colonel SYKEd said, as an old soldier, the great
thing to be attained in the education of an officer was
that he should be competent for the work to which
he was to be put. The aim and object of his education
should be professional acquirement, and not that he
might became a literary coxcomb. Tae examination to
which he might be subjected should be as strictly pro-
fessional as possible, aud, above all things, bona fide, for
otherwise it would be a mockery and a delusion. Hav-
ing passed that examination—not for literary acquire-
ments, but for professional knowledge—a man entered
the army, and the gallant member (.sir De Lacy Evans)
proposed that there should afterwards be a competitive
examination previous to entering upon the staff. He
(Colonel Sykes) thought that a very desirable arrange-
ment, because hitherto promotion to the staff, as was
well known, had depended entirely on family or pecu-
niary interest, or both, and not upon the qualifications
of the individual concerned. (Hear.) At the same time
ho thought such an examination should be general as to
place, and not exclusively confined to aspirants in any
particular locahty. It was only fair that officers serving
with regiments ie the colonies and other parts of the
world should have equal opportunities afforded them
with those at home, of submitting themselves to such
examinations. In India they had a system of examina-
tion somewhat analogous to the one proposed. It was
known that no officer could hold a staff appointment
until he had passed an examination, not merely as a
linguist, but as an interpreter, and there were standing
officers appointed in different parts of the country before
whom candidates must appear to undergo such an exami-
nation before they could do staff duty or servo in any
detached employment. He thought that some kindred
xamination might take place with respect to staff
appointments in general. It was not absolutely neces-
sary that an individual should go into a college to learn
the duties of a staff officer. Strategy, for in-tance, and
all that kind of knowledge could be obtained without
witheaut going into a college for the express purpose of
acquiring it. He entirely concurred in the suggestion
that it was impolitic that there should be an indiscrimi-
nate competitive examination Lel re e, t-ring the
army at all, but, at the same time he thought it desir-
able than a certain number of commissions should
from time to time to given as prizes to persons who
wished to enter the army, and who were willing to com-
pete for the en. (Rear, hear.)
Lord A, CHURCHILL said that an officer should be

' -hove all thingo a gentlmnan if the men serving under
him :ere to be expected to 'look up to him, and cheer-
to carry out his orders on all coca-
fsuifl,lnys.all(L 2a;:;lici'Y
itewould do all in his power to forward
‘rs desirous of rising in their proles-
,ll,3;nd deseniug men among the non-
.t..ac; a class, they were not generally
liinntisesr.
jeos,itiese
-,i if they were taken out of their
..-',e ranks would not look up
^fficers of a supe•
' I°l, :c:
(I. 'ill c 'gb
' ' also, i 5

Ilion, ;bin, —.
fitted. for that ;
natural sphere ths men
o them in the same way they did to
1 for grade by birth and education. thougo.,

would be desirable to offer a certain number of commis-
sions from time to time for competition in cur great
public schools, which would give an Impetus to a well-
educated dies of young men to enter the army who
might otherwise experience s' mo difficulty in obtaining
a commission. It would not then be simply the aristo-
cratic class who would get commissions, but also me❑
who had earned them by their own ability and exertions.
It was not, however, only the able mathematician or the
skilful constructor of fortifications that made a man a
good officer. To be thoroughly efficient in his profes-
sion he must also have aliberal education, and, as the
late Sir Charles Napier had obst:rved, the beet officer,
after all, was the English country gentleman. (Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON.—I am sure my hon. and
gallant. friend (Sir De Lacy Evans) must be well satis-
fied with the interesting discussion which his resolution

has elicited. The matter is one of the highest interest
to the country, and those gentlemen who have expressed

their opinions in the course of the discussion are all

men who appear by their professional pursuits, or by
the attention they have devoted to this interesting topic,

to be highly competent to arrive at a sound conclusion
in refersn'e to it. Upon the general necessity—l won't
even lower it: so far as to call it the expediency—of
securing a good education to the officers in the army,

I think everybody who has thought for a moment on
the subject must be only of one opinion. There is this,
however, to be considered, that any examination into
merely intellectual attainments can afford you but an
imperfect standard as to the qualifications of an indivi

dual for military employment. (Hear, bear.) There
are three requisites for making a good officer. There
is first of all gegeral intelligence, and that ordinary
education which a gentleman is supposed to have ob-
tained ; next, there is proficiency in his profession—in
those matters which are thoroughly military, and which
do not belong to a general literary education ; and above
all, in the third piece, there are those constitutional
qualities which are eminently and beyond all others im-
portant in the composition of an officer. (Cheers.) Un-
doubtedly my right hon. friend the member for South
Wiltshire (Mr. S. Herbert) has observed how 'few great
generals the history of this country has recorded. He
might have gdneralised that observation and extended it
to the whole civilised world, for that combination of
constitutional qualities, of military attainments, :and of
general knowledge, which united make a great military
leader, is perhaps one of the rarest things things you
can find in the whole range of human nature—(bear,
hear)—and accordingly there are fewer men recorded in
history who have been great generals than those who
have excelled in other pursuits. The first examination
of a young man who is to enter the army ought to be a
standard test to show that he has received the liberal
education of a gentleman, and that he is possessed of
mental and natural qualities which indicate that he is a
young man of capacity and industry, and likely to excel
in advancing himself in the knowledge of his profession.
I think it most essential and wise to propose that the
first examination shall not apply to purely military at-
tainments. A young man of the age to enter the army
should be examined upon those general branches of
education to which every young man ought to devote
his time. (Hear, hear) When he has received
his commission, and after he has been a certain time
in his regiment, his commanding officer has an
opportuniuy of seeing whether he possesses those other
qualities which fit him to rise and to distinguish him-
self in the profession. The cempetitive examination for
the staff seems to meet the general approbation of the
House. (Hear.) With regard to the strictness of the
examination, I quite agree with the right hon. gentle-
man the member for Wilshire—there is always, in a
standard examination, some danger that it will fall too
low. I think, however, the arrangements intended to
be made, tha,. the examinations are to be conducted by
examiners periodically changed, not belonging to any
official establishment, and partly civilians and partly
military mere will sufficiently secure that the examina-
tion shall not fall below the point to which it ought to
be reduced. (Hear.) There is in competitive examina-
tion, on the other hand, the danger of going too high ;
and I must submit that in many examinations, not ex.
eluding the Universities and other systems, the ex-
aminers, from the natural feeling that what every man
does should be done as well as possiiile pace a little too
high the standard to which they submit the competition
of candidates. More especially, I should say, with re-
gard to mathematics, there are limits beyond which no I
practical advantage is gained in straining the mind in
attaining abstract knowledge, for which in after life
• there is no immediate or practical use. (Cheers.)
Therefore, a great deal of discretion is required in
persons who examine to see that the examination
turns upon matters which will be useful in the line
which the young man who is, examined is intended to
follow, and that he is not taxed beyond the useful amount
which he may be expected to attain. The result, if
examinations are carried too far, no doubt is that you
are hpt to get a young man who is endowed with a very
retentive memory, and sometimes to lose a young man
whose intellectual resources and whose promptitude and
readiness in action would make him the more useful in
the service (hear, hear) ; you get a man whose mind is a
complex dictionary, instead of a man whose mind is
created for energy and action. (Cheers.) In the devising
a system applicable to military education, the first part is
completed, and, as my lion. friend the Under-Secretary
of State for the War Department has said, will be im-
mediately laid on the table of the House. The remains
ing portions are under consideration, and will, no doubt,
be prepared with the same views with which the portion
already prepared bas been completed. The resolutions
of my hon. and gallant friend seem to me to be a little
too much in the affirmation of points still underconsidera-
tiou. I am quite prepared to agree to the main
principles upon which the resolutions are founded.
But at the same time when he sees that the
council to whom the matter has been referred by her
Majesty's Government are still considering many of the
points on which his resolutions touch, I would submit
to my hon and gallant friend whether he may not either
be satisfied with the discussion and wait to see what is
proposed in the next session, or, if he feels that this is a
matter of such deep interest that he is-anxious the house
should record its concurrence with him, by some slight
modifications of his resolutions affirm the general prin-
ciples without tying down the Government to particular
points. (Hear.) I will leave hiM to consider which of
those two alternatives he thinks best. I can assure him
that the Government have at heart the same object
which so earnestly and creditably to himself he has ad-
vocated, and I think, knowing that we both wish the
some end, there cannot be much difficulty in agreeing
upon the means. (Cheers.)
Sir DE L. EVANS said he was very much gratified
at the spirit in which the noble lord had met his pro-
position. He had no intention of proposing an unqualified
competitive system to be applied to the whole body of
officers, cavalry and infantry. He wished to see an in-
fusion of competition in education. He understood that
the Government intended to infuse that competition with
regard to some portion of the officers of the line, and that
would meet his views. He did not propose any definite
or fixed system, and, as the subj Jet was under considera-
tion, he would omit a passage in the resolutions which
he-hoped would completely meet the wishes of the noble
lord. (Hear, hear.)
The resolutions were then put and agreed to in this
form :--
"That in the opinion of this House a higher standard
of professional instruction and more complete provision for
it than hitherto deemed requisite ought to be established
for the commissioned ranks of the army, but especially for
the staff; that this will be best promoted by recourse to
competitive examination of officers desiring to qualify
themselves for the staff, and by assuring encouragements
for proficiency and general fitness for advancement."
BANE ACTS.

Mr. GREER, who had given notice of his intention
to move an instruction to the Select Committee on the
Bank'Acts, directing them to extend their inquiry to
the operation of any other Acts affecting the currency or
banking which might be found to require their special
consideration, having risen to address the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
that the committee on the Bank Acts had that day
agreed to report to the House the evidence which they
had taken, and it was not their intention to sit again.
Mr. GREER said, that he way about to state that as
the committee could not act upon instruction during
the present session, 'he should withdraw his Motion.
Mr. BUCHANAN asked whether it was intended
that the report of the committee should be published ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that the committee had agreed to uo resolUtion except to
inform the House that the inquiry was incomp'ete, and
to recommend the reappointment of the committee next
session.