The Sun.
London, England, 1861-04-20 00:00:00

those arrangements for the future which it would be
proper to make could .be made without any very
great difficulty, and, my lords, if these arrange.
ments were made in a spirit of enlightened
liberality, I think the clergy of France and all the Other clergy
of the Roman Catholic Church ought" to be satisfied, and
that the Roman Catholics generally would be content. Let
the Emperor show his own clergy and his own people, who
now feel so deep an interest in the Pope, that an alteration
of that kind would secure to the Pope advantages which he
cannot now possess, and we may heft() to see the difficulties
which exist under the French occupation disappear with an
arrangement such as that to which I have referred. (Hear,
hear.) My lords, so far I have trespassed on your lordships'
with respect to Rome. I wish now, with your lordships'
permission, to say a few words with respect to Venetia. I
assure yOu that I approach this subject with feelings of re-
spect for Austria—lwill add ,with considerations of grati-
tude to Astria. I never can forget the services performed
by-that Power in,the great war of the Revolution. (Hear.)
To her exertions at that time is owing her present state of
financial distress, which I fear is at the root of other diffi •
males with which she is at present beset. We are more
especially indebted to her for her advance in 1805, which
prevented the invasion of tlaik`Oduntry ; for her advance in
1809, which withdrew manyOrthe troops from Spain; and,
above all, for her advance in 1813, when risking her own
existence she went to Leipsic and from Leipsic to Paris. I
can never forget those services, and I feel grateful for what
she then did. (Hear, hear.) My lords, Austria has not
been fairly treated in this matter. s At the Congress of
Vienna she gave up the Netherlands, and in exchange she
received Italy. I say Italy, because, though Austria herself
only got a portion of that country, princes of the Austrian
House.were 'established in other portions, and it was pere
fectly understood that it was the mission of Austria to
maintain Italy against the French. Genoa was given to
Piedmont for the same purpose. The Italian territory
of Piedmont' its to be the advanced guard of Austria
against France. That was the intention of the Congress
of Vienna. Whether it was a wise one or not I shall not
now inquire; but with that intention Austria was estab-
lished in I6ly, and in endeavouring to maintain and
ex-
tend her influence in that country she only performed
her original mission and fulfilled obligations which she
contracted at Vienna. That being the case, I must venture
to offer an opinion which may not be acceptable to her. I
think it is necessary to the safety of Austria that she should
reconctle-herself -to the Itailan people. (Hear! hear.) I re-
collect hearing at the time of the Congress of Vienna, that
Austria said " Italy ise our budget, and we must cling to
her?: Italy is now, however, her, deficit, and the main
source of her financial difficulties.'. (Hear, hear.) With.
respect to the strategical resources of Italy, I believe it is be-
yond doubt that' her fortresses are not of that value which
they formerly were. The great improvements which
have been made in artillery of late years have greatly
diminished the value of all fortresses ; and the great in-
crease in the numerical strength of armies has effected
a similar result. (Hear, hear.) In the war in Italy under
the First Napoleon, when an army consisted of 30,000 or
40,000 men, a fortress like that of Mantua was considered
of great value; but when an army consists of
150,000 men, either the soldiers in those garrisons are too
few to act, or they are so numerous as to be of much more
value in the field. I will not say that they are not still of
value. So Tong as a means of communication is open, no
doubt a fortified position, like Verona will form a great ole=
stacle to the advance of troops; but the recent changes in.
Italy have much changed the strategical position of Austria.
My lords, the Italians of the kingdom of Italy are ardently
desirous to obtain possession of Venetia. (Hear.) Until
they do possess it their policy will be completely warped,
and instead of leaking to that which would be their policy
when entirely contented as a great people, they will look to
an alliance with France for the purpose of obtaining the.
assistance of that country in accomplishing what they now
desire. (Hear, hear.) But once in possession of the Italian.
peninsula Italy will no longer have any (deject to gratify. It
is impossible she can desire to occupy a foot of ground be-
yond the Italian soil. Her policy, in conjunction with Swit-
zerland, with which she will then be most intimately allied,
will be to preserve an armed permanent neutrality, to pro
test the balance of power in Europe, and to forbid any
State, German or French, from passing the Rhine, both
banks of which will then be the possession and under the
command of the Italian army. If Italy be constituted so that
it will be able to do this, its true line of policy, observe the
advantage which it will prove to Austria. Her left flank
will be entirely protected in any operations Which she may
hereafter be required to conduct against France, and united
with Germany she would at all times be enabled to protect
her doniinions. My lords, these are the views which I'en-
tertain with respect to the Venetian question. Ido ear-
nestly hope a time will come when Austria will take a more
correct view of her own real ultimate interests than perhaps
she can be induced to do at present. But I must say that of
all things I do deprecate any attempt on the part of any
body of Italians whatever to interfere by arms in the diffe •
rences which may now exist between Austria and Hungary
or any other'States. (Loud cheers.) Austria in her in-
tegrity and in her strength is absolutely necessary to the
safety of every State in Europe. (Renewed cheering.) It
would be impossible to preserve the balance of power if her
integrity were assailed—(cheers)—and any man who now
entertains a desire of raising commotions and of creating a
war against Austria in Hungary would be criminal in the
presence of Europe, and the enemy of every man within its
boundaries. (Loud cheers.) I daresay the opinions which
I have expressed may be represented as taking purely an
English view of the subject. We are supposed to have sym-
pathised with the Italians through some idea that the union
of those countries under the rule of King Victor Emmanuel'
would be speciallietiavantageous to this country. I really
do not give the people of this country credit tor hiving
thotight at all on the subject. (Laughter.) They saw a
great people struggling with adversity, and they looked back
to all that people had suffered, and they knew that in for-
mer days they had been great in arms and commerce, the
leaders of the civilisation of mankind, and they'felt in al-
most every past of the country a natural and generous sym-
pathy with that people, and the object for which they were
struggling. (Lond cheers.) But looking to the interest
which we have in the question, I believe it to be by compa.
risen the moat remote of any of the nations of Europe. Our
policy seems to have been either largely mistaken, or, what
is much more probable, misrepresented, We want nothing
on the continent, nor would we accept anything. (Cheers.)
We desire nothing but the permanent tranquillity of our
own islands; we desire that all nations should respect each
other's rights. (Hear, hear.) We wish them all to be
rich and prosperous, and we do feel interested to this ex-
tent, because we know that the richer and more prosperous
they are the greater will be our own wealth and prosperity.
(Cheers.) Beyond this we have no interest whatever; but
if we could lay down a line of policy and distribute power
in Europe according to our own view, what would be
"most desirable would be this—that power should be so-
divided among the different States of Europe as to enable
them to defend their own independence without our inter-
vention. If the time shoal& ever arise when one great pre-
dominant Power should again attempt, as was formerly
done, to overcome the liberties of other nations for the pur-
pose of founding its own grandeur on their ruin, then I
trust that, as in former times, England would summon the
nations of Europe to the field, would place herself in the§
ttont of battle, and, by God's help in so good a cause would
again overthrow the aggressor by the united weight of an
armed Europe. (Hear.) Knowing that views such as
these become the seat which I have the good fortune to
occupy, I have permitted myself fully and frankly to
express the opinions which I hold. (Loud cheers.) I cer-
tainly do feel very deeply in this matter. lam not an
Italian of yesterday. (Hear, hear.) In a discussion 45
years ago in the House of Commoos with respect to the
Treaty of Paris I expressed my deep regret that in the Con-
gress4he allies had not availed themselves of what the
French had done in the North and centre of Italy, by
breaking down the jealousies which previously existed, by
the creation of an army, and by the improvement of the
people, to found a great State in the North of Italy. I then
expressed an opinion, to which I have ever adhered, in.
favour of nationality as the best and most pure basis of the
independence of States. That was 45 years ago, and I have
never varied in those opinions. There have been occa-
sions, undoubtedly, when I have entertained a hope of see-
ing the realisation of the various improvements in Italy
which I have so long desired. Time after time these have
vanished from my view, but I do rejoice that I have been-
tohsovladrdsth! conclusion
of a very
within my grasp
the earliest, the most enduring, and the most cherished
permittedlotnoglivpeoltiotitc,dislittfem,
time when,
w almost h e
visions of my youth. (Loud and general cheering.) The
I concluded by asking the noble lord the Secretary
noble earl
for Foreign Affairs whether the, Government was engaged
in any correspondence with ke object of reconciling the
spiritual independence of the See of Rome with the exer-
cise of teeeeoral sovereignty within the Roman territory
by the King of Italy ?

Lord W6DEHOUSE,—The house has listened with the
attention and interest which it deserves to the, eloquent
speech of the noble earl who has just resumed his seat.
I myself feel at a great disadvantage in following him, not
merely on account of that eloquence, but also because as the
noble earl himself has said, ho occupies a seat on that side
,of the house, while I occupy a seat on this. The question
int) the discussion of which the noble earl has entered is of
g on,ha
hhe rtuce,
o but u t I
her
the highest interest and of the
sutmostpeakin
irnpotam sure he will not expect, and the house lam certain,
7,wioaujeldat3n,oet
adoesvieriontreheantth
anys oneould
discuss the various points
iLt.) which he has entered. The question which . the noble
earl has asked lies comparatively within a very narrow
compass, and, as your lordships no doubt expect, the answer
to that-question is that we have not engaged in any corre-
spondence with the object of reconciling the spiritual inde-
pet.denc,e of the see of Rome with the exercise of temporal
sovereignty within the Roman territory by the King of
It sly. The reasons, I think, must be obvious why her
Majesty's Government have not engaged in any correspon-
dence on the subject.' It is
true
number of our fellow-subjects
those who dwell within those territories, and who, as the
who t here
are aeroe.. r
ea chogni
os indiesr at s bol ef
noble earl says, must take the greatest interest in this ques-
tion. But it isalso true that this country is pre-eminently
a Pi'otestant country, and the chief Protestant Power in
Europe ; and it must, I think, be evident that, in dealing
swthateiclot
oifnEvoulrvoopen,obtumt
leikreelwyistheethiendpeopseintidoenncoof
with tohnemoaft ttehres