The Sun.
London, England, 1861-07-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—YESTERDAY.
The LORD Cua.NcELLon took his scat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Eastern Counties Railway ; London, Chatham, and
Dover (Lease to Margate) Railway ; Monmouth Railway
and Canal (New Lines); Stourbridge Railway (Extension);
Worcester, Bromwich, and Leominster Railway ; West
Hartlepool Harbour and Railway; Ware, Hadhasi, and
Bantingford Railway ; Bishop's Stortford, !Dunmow, and
Braintreeßailway,CorkandMacroomßailway, Aberystwith
and West Coast Railway, Somerset Central Railway, and
Conway Llanrwest Railway Bills were read a second time.
GALWAY HARBOUR.

On the motion that the Galway Harbour Bill be read a

second time,
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said the bill was in
substance to enable the commissioners of the Galway Har-
bour to raise a sum of money, the interest of which might
be paid by means of a rate not exceeding one penny in
the pound, to be levied on the whole county. The
assent of the ratepayers of the county had
been given to the bill before the subsidy of the Govern-
ment to the Mail Packet Company had been with-
drawn, and therefore it could not be said that
the ratepayers had given their consent to the measure
being proceeded with in the altered state of affairs. He
thought that, under all the circumstances, the measure
ought to be withdrawn.
The Earl of CLANCARTY strongly objected to the bill.
lie wished their lordships would reject it altogether in pre-
ference to allowing it to be withdrawn.
The measure was then withdrawn.
THIRD READINGS.

The Hemsworth Estates, South Staffordshire Railway,
Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway, and Airdale
Drainage Bills were read a third time and passed.
FIRST READINGS.

The Industrial Schools (Scotland), and the Inclosure
Bills were read a first time.
SUBDIVISION OF BENEFICES BILL.

Lord LYTTELTON said as the bill now stood it was
open to him or any noble lord to move that it be proceeded
with, but as far as he was concerned he should not take
any steps towards doing so during the present session—
neither did he feel disposed to bring the subject under the
consideration of their lordships again.
EDUCATION.

The NOBLE LORD then proceeded to ask the President
of the Council whether the Government intended to pro-
pose any measure in Parliament, or to issue any minutes
of the Committee of Privy Council on Education, in pur-
suance of the report of the Education Commissioners. His
lordship then proceeded to say that the object which he had
in view was to ascertain if her Majesty's Government in-
tended, on the recommendation of the Commissioners on
Education, to make any alteration in the mode by which
the Committee of Council made grants towards the main-
tenance of schools ? Their report was, no doubt, a reason-
able one, but still there were portions of it to which he ob-
jected, and he doubted if any of her Majesty's Government
had read through the five volumes in which it was con-
tained. The recommendations of the commissioners were
of a twofold character. One class of recommendations
could not be carried out without the interference of Parlia-
ment, but the Committee of Council might by its minute
put any of the other class into immediate action. He en-
tirely approved of all the commissioners stated in reference
to evening schools, educational endowments, pauper schools,
and State schools, bat he did object to the proposal that
these schools were to be supported by a county or a borough
rate. One important matter they had now to decide was,
whether, in regard to pauper schools, Boards of Guardians
should be required to send the paupers to schools apart from
the workhouse, instead of prohibiting them, as was the
spirit of the old law. According to Denison's Act, a law
passed under the direction of the present Speaker of the
House of Commons, the Boards of Guardians could give
pauper children :education along with relief; but as the
matter was left optional with them, the enactment had be-
come a complete dead letter. He found, on examination,
that some of the recommendations with respect to the rate
at which the teachers were to be paid for each child
educated in a school under the proposed system of a
county or borough rate were most contradictory. His
great objection, however, to the proposed s) stem of rating
was, that it held out great benefits on very low conditions,
and he could not regard that as good policy. The recom-
mendation that the education to be afforded the public
schools under the management of the Committee of Council
should consist only of reading, writing, and arithmetic,
would, if adopted, be equivalent lo discarding all certifi-
cated masters and mistresses, and pupil teachers. It was
also proposed that the certificates should have no pecuni-
ary, but only a honorary value. By the first recommenda-
tion the school managers would be left to make their own
terms with the teachers ; and the second recommendation,
if carried out, in reference to those who are now actually
teachers, would amount to a serious breach of public faith.
He wished to know, in the event of that recommendation
being carried out, if it were to be purely protective or not ?
He agreed with Mr. Chadwick that there should be some
alteration in the school hours, to give time for the physical
training of the children. Although the commissioners, in
their report, took into consideration the state of those
schools established under the Factories Act, he regretted to
find that they had not considered the education of those
children engaged in the unregulated trades, with respect to
whom, Mr. Senior stated that the slaves in South Carolina
were less tortured and better fed. They were brought as
young as two years old to aisist in the manufacture of hard-
ware and lace.
Earl GRANVILLE, in reply, said he would leave to
his noble friend the Secretary for the Colonies (the Duke
of Newcastle), who had been one of the commissioners to
defend the recommendations of the report itself, while he
would confine himself to the task of answering the noble
lord's questions. With respect to the intention of her Ma-
jesty's Government to base any measure upon those recom-
mendations which required the action of Parliament, he
had to state that they had not as yet so thoroughly con-
sidered those recommendations as to feel justified in pro-
posing any alteration in the existing law; but with re-
spect to those recommendations which depended for their
adoption upon the action of the Committee of Council he
would very soon, he hoped, be able to lay upon their lot d-
ships' table a minute which would remedy some of the diffi-
culties which were found in the administration of the pre-
sent system, and also meet a great and crying evil by
extending Government assistance to those schools in poor
districts which could not come up to the present require-
ments of the committee council, although he did not pro•
pose that it should be at once carried into effect.
Lord BROUGHAM expressed himself highly pleased
with the ability displayed by the Commissioners in their re-
port, and also with the course which her Majesty's Govern-
ment was about to pursue in the matter. He had for a long
time past been in favour of having the schools maintained
by a parish rate, and had introduced into Parliament two
bills based upon his views. He agreed with Mr. Chadwick
that the school hours should be subdivided, and one part of
them set aside for physical exercise, such as military drill.
Forty years ago he had stated that the schoolmaster was
abroad, and last year he added to that another diction to
the effect that the workmaster was abroad also, and often
greatly interfered with the free action of the schoolmaster.
The short time system, however, counteracted a large por-
tion of the evil. He regretted that the Commissioners had
entirely overlooked the question of middle-class education
—a question upon which he had last year presented as
many as 120 petitions, signed by 40,000 persons, He would
wish to see extended to those schools the privilegeofGo-
vernment inspection. The children. of the class immediatelybelow them had the benefit of 5,000 trained masters ed
mistresses, and of 16,000 pupil teachers.
The Duke of NE WCASTLE said it was most gratifying
to him to hear the observations which had been made in re-
ference to the report both by the noble and learned lord,
and also by his noble friend who had introduced this sub-
ject to their lordships' consideration ; and he would now
proceed to reply briefly to their objections. The noble and
learned lord complained that the subject of middle-class
education had been omitted from the report of the commis-
sion, but that did not arise from any want of appreciation
in their eyes of its importance, but simply because it had
not been included within the scope of their inquiry. With
respect to the other omissions complained of, namely that
they had made no recommendations with respect to the edu-
cation of children engaged in the unregulated trades, they
did not feel that they were the proper persons to call for the
extension of the Factories Act, especially as the master
tradesmen in the lace trade were themselves asking for it.
With regard to those schools which were dependent upon

charitable funds, they found that those funds wore, for the
most part, grossly misapplied. It was perfectly true, as
stated bythe noble lord, that Denison's Act, enabling boards
of guardians to remove pauper children from the cont mina-
tion of the workhouses had become a dead letter, because of
the option which it gave them, and it was desirable that the
spirit of that enactment should be carried further. The

commissioners never contemplated abrogating the system of
e)etmining into the religions training of the children in the
Church of England Schools, which would continue pre-
cisely as tmore, but they would limit the duties of the Go-
van:molt inspc%fors of schools to ascertaining the ext ent
Of their secular kno,d.dge, leaving it to the diocesan in-
epietor the duty of inqulilve into the religious training.
It Was not intended that the certificate of the teacher
should have no pecuniary value, but it was proposed to
Place the grants in the hands of the school managers,
and leave them to make their own bargain with the
touchers. The efficiency of the schools was the first
subject which the commiesi mers had in view, and
tb ey were of opinion that after all, the certificate was not
tb.e proper test of the ability of a teacher. Mr. Cook, one
of the Government inspectors, stated that he, in his district,
found that those who were the best teachers had either no
cot tificate at all, or, at most, very low ones. In proposing
du) county rate they had three important objects in view ;
Emit, to simplify the business of the office;
secondly, to ob-
via to the possibility of the House of Commons, in one of its
cold fits, cutting down the educational estimate one half,
which would have the effect of breaking up the whole sys-
tem of education; and the third and chief s object it +.
bring into the general school, at
system all the public ts.chw --
present untwisted, and also the private schools, The