The Sun.
London, England, 1859-02-16 00:00:00

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-'‘-ivr WEDNE4: , EKING, FEB
3 P D D

The ATTORNEY-GENERA.
needed from the noble lord for
matter as the laws of bankruptcy before the house ; nor was
it necessary for so experienced a reformer as the noble lord
,to quote the authority even of those eminent mercantile
bodies by whose advice and counsel ho said he had been
aided in favour of any measure which he might introduce.
He had listened with great attention to the statement of the
noble lord, to collect from it whether this bill were in all
respects identical with the bill brought in by the noble lord
List session, with the main previSions of which he had
made him Self 'acquainted ; but- he had not been ableto as-
certaine creditors
,
he
whether various important principles which the
noble lord proposed to legislate last
_session were likewise
comprehended in this bill. With regard to the very impur-
tl4t provision for diminishing the expense of the proceed-
ings in bankruptcy,edi heto r
s doubted
power, y
r much
u thoughtllwhether
fit,to
giving
the majority of place
the whole affairs of an estate in the hiuids of a single as-
signee of their oWn choosing would eventually lead to any
diminution of cost:' !There was this evil, too, attendant-
upon the proposeicilftit for an official- assignee appointed
by the Court, from whom ample securitY was required, and
who exercised the duties of his office under heavy responsi-
bility, a single assignee would be substituted, nominated by
.
the creditors,'who might bein narrow circumstances, and
who must necessarily have no business of his own to attend
properly to the business of the bankruptcy. But if, when
the bill were printed, it-were seen .that it contained provi-
sions which would really lead to the diminution of expense,
her Majesty's Government and the house generally would
be glad to adopt them. He rejoiced to find that the noble
lord gave his sanction to the abolition of the distinction be-
tween traders and -non-traders, and he agreed in the enco-
mium which the noble lord had passed on the Bankruptcy
Law of Scotland. This same abolition was contemplated
by the bill which had been introduced in the other house
by the Lord Chancellor. A measure embracing the entire
law of bankruptcy, and the amendments of which it wait
thought to be capable at the present time, had been laid
before the other house by his noble _friend opposite, and ha
suggested, therefore, that the noble lord opposite should
not press forward the future stages of this bill until
amp le time had been given to Parliament and the country
to compare the two bills together, so that the whole
subject might be treated in a comprehensive spirit.
(Hear.) With regard to the proposal to give jurisdiction
in bankruptcy to the County Courts, although it might be
-very plausible to say that whatever the creditors might
agree to should be done, as they were the persons chiefly
concerned, it must not be forgotten that to give entire con-
trol to the County. Courts over the whole proceedings in a
bankruptcy case, where-questions of great difficulty-might
arise, without any appealto a superior Court, might -lead to
very inconvenient consequences. He should have thought
it better to give a co-ordinate jurisdiction in bankruptcy to
those County Courts in matters not very largo in amount,
with an appeal to the groat Bankruptcy Courts established
in London. The next question treated of by the noble lord
was ono of the utmost importance. It was as to whether the
creditors of a bankrupt might not, if they thought fit, adopt
in all cases a voluntary system of liquidation, totally apart
from the Bankruptcy Court. The principle of the law of
bankruptcy, in all countries, was that where a trader became
insolvent his whole property should at once be placed in the
hands and under the control of the creditors in the cheapest
and most expeditious mode which the law could define, and
that the honest debtor should then be freely and for ever ac-
quitted and discharged of all claims against him, while the
dishonest debtor should be adequately punished according to
the amount of his delinquency. But when we came to apply
that principle to any measure of liquidation the greatest
practical difficulties were found to exist, and he had been
unable to gather from the statement of the noble lord what
provision he proposed to meet those difficulties. When the
noble lord's bill was before the house last session ho consi-
dered it with great attention, and it appeared to him at that
time that the clauses relating to liquidation were utterly in-
adequate to effect the desired purpose. Probably, in the
meantime, the noble lord might have reconsidered and
changed those clauses. However, that might be, ho shOulil
give his best attention to all the provisions bearing upon
this important part of the subject, and, should they appear
to him to be well suited for the purpose in view, he
would do his utmost to give effect to them. (Hear, hear.)
Another important point, involving difficulties - of a
constitutional character, related to the extent to which a
fraudulent debtor should be punished. He knew not in
what way the noble lord proposed to deal with that part of
the subject ; but the difficulty at the very 'outsetwas this—.
that a great many acts might be done by a debtor which,
though of such a nature that it would be highly inexpedi-
ent, if not impracticable, to bring them within the opera-
tion of the criminal statutes of the country, were yet such
• drat it would be impossible to allow them to pass, when
proved in the Court of Bankruptcy, without some punish-
ment being inflicted on the debtor. Such, for example, was
the contracting of a debt when the debtor knew that ho had
no means of paying it. On the other hand, when offences
of such a character were committed that it became just and
expedient to punish the debtor for having offended against
the criminal law of the country, this great difficulty arose :
If he were tried before a judge and a jury, no bankrupt'.
estate would be able to bear-the expense of these prosecits
tions ; while, if the jury were dispensed with, it would be
said that the constitution of the country was violated.affa
disregarded. Under these circumstances he should look
with great anxiety to the bill cf the noble lord to see how
these many and great difficulties were met, and he was not
without hopes that before the session terminated they
might succeed in perfecting a measure-which should give
satisfaction on this important subject to the great mercan-
tile and trading interests of the country. (Hoar, hear.)
With regard to consolidation, he might be excused for
stating to the house that for many years he had given his
most earnest attention to that great question. It was now
under the consideration of Government, and he proposed
within a few days to bring before the house the entire sub•
jest of consolidation, and it would be to hint matter
of great satisfaction if in the improvement of any branch
of the statute law of England they could coin-
bine consolidation with improvement. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord, however, seemed almost to have
forgotten that the law of bankruptcy had been completely
consolidated within the last few years, and he thought that

SDAY E

,RUARY 16, 1859.

'RICE 4

STAMPED, 5 .

a bill ; at ulater period they drew that bill in a proper form,
and requested me to undertake the introduction of it Into.
Parliament. As have the honour of representing the City
of London—a great body of traders—l thought I could not
decline that task, and accordingly, last year—but at a period
when the matter could-not be sufficiently considered—l in-
trodupCd_ the bill which they had Placed in my hands, and
the pi ovis:ons of which met with My full approval. (Heat',
hear.) In again bringing forward this subject I think it is

trader and non-trader. This state of things has given rise
to a great deal of difficult discussion, and to distinctions that
hardly 'seem valid, and which often have no foundation. For
instance, while an apothecary, who sells drugs, miglyt he
made at any time a bankrupt, the physician, who trades in
his skill, cannot be subject to the same law. According th-
an exception mad in one of the :jets of Parliament, farmers
and innkeepers are not liable to the bankrupt laws. The
•farrier, who converts a bar of iron into a horseshoe, may be
Made a bankrupt; but the farmer, who changes milk into
buttei and cheese, is not liabk to the same laws. There
arise ' ei-evy day questions respecting the capacity
and character of a person who is in debt, as
to whether tw ought or ought not to be reckoned a
bankrupt or insolvent. What I propose on this subject is,
to abolish the distinction altogether. (Hear, hear.) We
propose that persons in debt should all come under the same
law, that there should be a law applicable to bankrupt and
insolvent alike in one court, which should make the dis-
tincticin which the particular character of the transactions
might warrant. Of course, there is a great difference be-
tween the case of an insolvent who has had nothing to do
with trade, but has incurred debts wantonly and extrava-
gantly, and the case of a trader who, by some failure in a
well-grounded speculation, has become a bankrupt. But it
is better that the distinction should be made by the Court,
and that each transaction should be treated according to its
merits and character, than that an attempt should be made
by law to persevere in maintaining the present distinction.
(Hear, hear.) Another benefit would arise from this—
namely, there being only one court, much greater economy,
simplicity, and uniformity would be found in the proceed-
ings. (Hear.). That one court being called by the name
of the Bankruptcy and Insolvency-Court, or by whatever
other name, would be empowered to deal with all these
matters, and the persons at the head of it would be persons
of high standing, fully equal to deal with all questions of
bankruptcy and insolvency that might come before them.
A matter which is much complained of by traders is the
distance of the present courts from their place of residence
and business. There are seven courts in the country, be-
sides the Courts of Bankruptcy and Insolvency in London.
A trader living, for instance, in the western part- of Corn-
wall would be put to great expense to go to Exeter in order
to proceed against a person owing him a debt, and in that
manner justice is frequently defeated. On this subject Lord
Brougham proposed some years ago that County Courts
should have jurisdiction. That proposal was objected to
by the commissioners to whom I have referred, and who
gave reasons why, in their opinion, the County Courts
should not administer these affairs. Nevertheless, censider-
ing how much has come within the jurisdiction of the
County Courts—how much every day their business car-
ries them into matters of considerable difficulty in point of
law, and considering the very great convenience which
traders would have in resorting to a tribunal within an
easy distance of-their own residence, I think it perfectly
right that the proposal should be made in this bill, that if
the creditors ou meeting think fit by a certain majority in
number and value to carry the case before the County
Court, they shall be empowered to.do so. It is not proposed
to abolish the jurisdiction of the present Bankruptcy Courts
in the country. In many instances creditors may think
that their cases will have a more satisfactory decision in
those courts. But wherever they are of opinion that they
would best 'find their remedy in the County Courts it is
proposed to allow them to do so. Although it has taken a
quarter of a century with all parties concurring and no
party opposition to make the change, I believe that of late
Years no change has been so beneficial among our amend-
ments of law as that which established local courts and
enabled those who are aggrieved to resort to a court within
an easy distance in order to procure a remedy for the evils
under which they suffered. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) The
next proposal of the bill refers to another evil which
is much complained of—namely, the power of making
voluntary settlements. It is quite true that these volun-.
tary settlements or arrangements have been very much
resorted to. It is quite true that the Courts of Bank-
ruptcy, as the commissioners stated, have had their
quantity of business relieved by the number of voluntary
arrangements. It is quite true that the evils which I have '
mentioned have prevented ninny traders going into the
Court of Bankruptcy ; but, while this has been the case,
there has been no sufficient authority or sanction given tB'
the mode in which voluntary arrangement.; have been car-
ried out. In Scotland there is such a mode, but in this coun-
try a minority of credkc-rs—a very small minority—have it
in their power to . defeat any such arrangement. It has
been stated, and by a person of long experience and autho-
rity upon this subject, that it is desirable that even if one
creditor should stand out voluntary arrangement should
not take place—that even if one creditor should propose
that the matter should be carried into court it is not right
to allow of any such arrangement. But that opinion is
founded on the supposition that in every case the great ma-
jority of creditors wish to make some unfair arrangement
which should be unknown to the public, and that tho ono
creditor is a patriotic and public-spirited man, who wishes
justice to be done, and is not contented with such a con-
cealed and secret proceeding. But facts do not agree with
this supposition. It is very often the case that these one or
two creditors who stand out are men who wish to indulge
their spite, are unreasonably obstinate, or are opposed from
some caprice or other to voluntary settlements. We propose
that in cases where a majority of creditors in number, and
four-fifths in value, shall agree to one of these private ar-
rangements, then with due precautions and with sufficient
sanction it shall bo lawful to settle the affairs out of court.
Another complaint which has been made is with regard to
the uncertainty in the punishment of fraud. Traders in the
country generally complain very much—l will not say with
how much reason, but they:complain—that in cases where
they consider the conduct of the debtor has been fraudulent
undue lenity is shown on the part of the commissioner. I
believe, on very high authority, that the best way will be
that whenever there appears to be a prima facie case of
fraud means shall be taken to send such a case before a jury;
that only upon conviction by a jury shall any punishment be
awarded ; and that the punishment awarded by the Court
or judge shall be sufficient to doter persons from entering
into trade and carrying on trade in a most fraudulent man-
ner, thereby not only cheating their creditors, not only de-
frauding all those with whom they are brought into contact,
but inflicting a stigma and disgrace upon the commercial
character of the country. (Cheers.) With regard to what I
have just stated as to voluntary arrangements, it is proposed
that a memorandum shall be signed by a majority in num-
ber of the creditors and four-fifths in value ; that such deed
or memorandum, shall bo registered in the Bankruptcy or
County Court district ; that its provisions shall be enforce-
able by summary application to such court ; and that to pre-
vent fraudulent arrangements the judge of the court shall
have power to call the debtor before him and to examine him
as to his conduct. The last proceeding which takes place in
bankruptcy is the certificate. According to the old state of
the law the certificate was either granted or refused. In
certain cases, where no adequate grounds for granting a cer-
tificate could be found, it was refused; but in every case
when it was thought that the debtor had given a fair account
of his transactions, that he had entered with honesty into
his trade, and that he had been onlydestroyed by thoie revo-
lutions in commerce which overthrow oven those who carry
on business with the greatest integrity—in all such cases the
certificate should be granted. It was thought to be an im-
provement on the law in this respect that there should be
three classes of certificates—one class for those who had got
into debt byunavoidable misfortunes, another class for those
who might have got into debt by unavoidable misfortunes or
not, and a third class for those who had not fallen in debt
through unavoidable misfortunes. But these distinctions
are somewhat too nice for human reasoning. (Hear,
hear.) In the first place, the words " unavoidable mis-
fortune," although wo apply them in charity to men who
have failed in trade, to a very critical eye seem inapplicable
to most cases in which, though the misfortune may not
have been easily avoidable, it might have been avoided
by a greater degree of prudence and sagacity. And on the
other hand, with regard to the third-class certificate,
saying that the debt was not owing to unavoidable misfor-
tune, it affixed a stigma to a man for the rest of his life,
which perhaps in ninny cases was unjust. We think it
better to recur to the old distinction of granting a certifi-
cate, or refusing it. (Hear.) On the whole, it makes a
distinction between the fair trader and the fraudulent spe-
culator, and therefore I propose in this bill to abolish alto-
gether the difference of certificates. I do not wish at the
present time to go into the various details Of this bill ; I
will only say that it is proposed in this bill to consolidate,
as well as to amend, the law of Bankruptcy ; and it appears
to me that those who have desired that the bill shallbe in-
troduced in this shape have judged rightly in desiring that
it shouldcontain consolidation as well as amendment. With
regard to amendment, I think there are very few points on
which there is any difference of opinion. When I intro-
duced the bill last year there were many provisions of that
bill upon which there appeared to be on the part of the Go-
vernment and on the part of professional gentlemen who
considered it great objections. But many of those provi-
sions, as I understand, are now to be adopted. If that be
the case, it is better that we should attempt at the same
time to consolidate the law. Of course, the few points of
difference which remain and the language of consolidation
must be carefully considered, and perhaps will be better
considered by members of both houses than in committee
of the whole house. All I wish is to lay the bill on the
table of the house, in order to have it fairly considered, and
hereafter, when the house has time and leisure to consider
such a subject, that all its provisions shall be considered
with, care and deliberation. There is no person in this
country who has shown more desire for law reform than
the present Attorney-General and the • present Solicitor..
General. (near) The law officers of the Crown, I zun
sure, will
be willing to adopt any measure which they think
will be an improvement of the law, and at the same
time raise the character of those who oarry on
the trade awl conunvroo of the couutiy, (Cheers.)

necessary, as the matter will, I trust, receive full considera-
tion in the course of the present year, whether by this house
or by the 'Government, to state both what is the
law Which the .bill affects, and 'what are the. cbatges
which it proposes to introdUce. The question of debt is
one which, of course, has received the attention of the
Legislatures of all countries. The law of England, as
stated by. Sir W. Blackstone, gives no less than five diffe-
rent writs or remedies -for a creditor against his debtor.
Somd of these writs affect the person, others the chattels,
others the land of the debtor, and some touch all these
different objects. It seems, whatever these provisions'may
be, whether merciful or harsh, that there can be nothing
more just, nothing more due by society towards its metn-
bar's, than to give a remedy for those to whom any property
is owing by others, But when the Legislature of England
began to consider the relations of traders to their creditors,
there arose other questions upon which our banktcy
laws are founded. There was not merely the question of
whether a debtor was able to pay his creditors, whether be
Might at any future time have property sufficient for that
purpose, but there were other questions relating to his
future course and position. On, the one haul it was found
that traders, by collusion, by fraud, by combination with
certain of their creditors, concealed or did away with their
property, thereby injuring the great body of their credi
tors ; and it was discovered, on the other, that the trader
who by unavoidable misfortune was unable to satisfY the
claims of his creditors, remaining liable to their aebts
during the whole of the rest of his life, was unable err to
regain his position and to carry on his trade in a credtable
and industriousmanner as he might otherwise have done.
The Roman law had provided for such cases. In a similar
spirit laws passed in the reign of Henry VIII., in the
reign of Elizabeth, and in the reign of James I. proidded
for the same class of eases. The anode 'of providing for
them was in principle that after a certain period, either
by the act of the creditors demanding payment,: and
thereby forcing the debtor into bankruptcy, or by the
act of the debtor himself, placing himself • in a
position of bankruptcy, all his property was at once
given over to certain persons—call them as you please—
and that those persons assumed from that time
the power of distributing his effects among the credi-
tors. But then, when that operation was performed, When
the whole property had been fairly distributed, there came
the second part of the process in favour of the debtor. If
it was found that the debtor was not guilty of, fraud, if his
debts were owing to unavoidable misfortunes, if he had
made a clean breast in regard to all his affairs, and stated
unreservedly the entire amount of his property and his ob.;
ligations, the law then stepped in to declare that hew free
from debts which he had incurred previous to his bank-
ruptcy. Although he might have paid only 108., only 55.,
or even only 2s. in the pound, the law declared he was there-
after free, able to undertake any other matter of tradj or of
commerce, and. could not be liable for the debts which he
hadformerly contracted. This provision is, I believe, greatly
to the benefit of commerce, greatly to the benefit of the cre-
ditor, greatly also to the advantage of the honest debtor,
and tends very much to the promotion of the best interests
of society. The mode in which the law in this respect was
carried out may be described in a few words. When either
the creditors or the debtor wished to constitute an act of
bankruptcy, application was made to the Lord Chancellor,
who issued a commission to certain commissioners. These
commissioners appointed an assignee or trustee, in whom
the whole of the property was vested, and who made, after
full inquiry, a distribution of the effects of the debtor, and
granted a certificate, by which the bankrupt was set free,
whether from imprisonment or from the liability to hepri-
sonment, and thereby enabled to regain his former poSition.
The laws which were made in the reigns I have mentioned,
afterwards altered by an Act of George 11., contimied in
operation till the time of Lord Chancellor Brougham. Their
defects were brought under the notice of that eminent man.
The chief defect was that the commissioners appointed in
the way I have described were not a fixed Court ; were not
persons by whom the whole of so difficult a branch 4f law
could safely be administered. They consisted of some 70 gen-

tleuaen, who were paid at first at the rate of 20s. a-daywhile
employed in the duties of their office, but afterwards by, fixed
salaries, thoughvery small ones. Many of them were persons
just come to the bar, who had very little experience, and the
whole of whose proceedings, therefore, were irregular and
unsatisfactory. Lord._ Chancellor Brougham, with that
spirit fur the improvement of the law for which he wlll over
be memorable, and which has placed his name with; those
of Remilly and Mackintosh among the groat legal reformers
of our country, constituted by act a Court of Ba.nkr4ptcy,
and proscribed its mode of proceeding. In 1849 a gpneral ,
act was passed with respect to bankruptcy. But tills law
occasioned very great complaints, and in 1852, I think, a
commission was appointed, which made its report in 1853.
That commission, of which the present Home Secretary was
a distinguished member, made a most elaborate report
pointing out the defects of the law, and offering mant sug-
gestions of the highest value and importance, with a view
to its amendment. Many of these suggestions mat have
been introduced into bills, but I do not think that the
greater part of them have yet been productive of the benefit
they might effect. They are most of them contained,in the
bill which I hope to have the honour to introduce to-night ;
and they will, I trust, if Parliament agrees to the measure,
make a very great amendment in the law. (Hear.) I will
now state what aro the general complaints respecting the
present state of the bankruptcy law. The first complaint is
the very great expense of the court. The matter is gone
into in great detail by the commissioners to whom I have
referred. I have stated that under the law before it was
amended there were very great defects, very irregular
modes of proceeding, and abuses, which were inseparable
from the then state of the law ; but the number of officers,
and the delay and difficulty in the mode of proceeding have
been such as greatly to destroy the remedy which the
Legislature meant to give. • The house, no doubt, will
agree with me in the statement I have made as to the prin-
ciple of these laws—namely, that the object is to obtain as
quickly and as cheaply as possible a full explanation and
revelation of the affairs of a bankrupt, and, having ascer-
tained what is the amount of property he possesses, to
divide that property among his creditors. That has been
done in such a way under the existing state of the kw that
on an average no less than 30 per cent., and sometimes
much more, aro consumed in the expenses of the court.
Therefore for every £lOO of actual assets that may come
into the possession of the assignee, the creditors receive no
more than £7O net for the payment of their debts. I have
here a statement which I copied from one of the tables given
in the appendix of the report of the commissioners; it is the
statement of Mr. Edwards, official assignee, with respect to
a certain sum that came into his possession in 1847. The
net amount of the assets was £23,029. On that amount
the Court fees were 9 per cent. ; the broker's and auc-
tioneer's charge was 5i per cent. ; the messenger's, 5i per
cent. ; the official assignee's, 51 per cent. ; but the great
charge of all was the solicitor's for law costs, which
amounted to 161- per cent., making altogether, without the
solicitor's charge, 261 per cent., and with the solicitor's
charge, 43 per cent, of the amount of the assets. (Hear.)
I find that the same assignee gives the amount divided in a

,
it would be inexpedient to interfere with the provisions of
that measure until the sense of one or of both houses of
Parliament should be taken upon the general scheme of con-
solidation. (Hear, hear )
Mr. HEADLAM said that, speaking generally, the bill of
the noble lord had this very great advantage, that it em-
bodied in it all those provisions which the delegates from
most of the great trading communities of the country be-
lievod to be essential to their interests,. and that it really
did contain a complete consolidation of the law of bank-
ruptcy. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the jurisdiction
given to the County Courts, he hadfound generally through-
out the north of England a very strong opinion in favour of
such jurisdiction, and in that opinion he concurred. ..Ike
thought, however, that there should be an appeal to aii'itp-
pellant court in bankruptcy, and he was happy to find that
that was given in the bill. The great difficulty which they
had to overcome obviously was the expense attendant upon
orbegltfroi
toen
:al
text i lboeemftnhteafittr
the liquidation of a bankrupt's estate. It was almost im-
possible to estimate the magnitude of this evil at present.
Generally speaking, the expense
but of course if the average were over 30 per cent, the cost
in particular cases must be infinitely greater, and he believed
averaged 30 per cont.,
that sometimes it amounted to as much as 80 per cent. It
given by able and learned
was an important feature of the
obtnhill.e‘l
countyof the
gentlemen h ny
it would very materially lessen this expense. (Hear, hear.)
of bankrupt estates • and he could not agree with tho M. ghriechatthdeefeercetdiintotrhsenopwrehseandtosiyesrtetihnewadasintihneistlaracktimot
controlt ru Anothere y-sav
of diminishing expense. He believed .the opinion of tit,
commercial world was contrary to that of the Attorney.
assignee by the creditors themselves would not be a means
had a right to anticipate that a similar ad- •
eneral in 'thinking that the appo4atmen* of an
for Carlisle and the President of the Board of Trade, and
vantage
would be now derived to the cause of bankru
(Hear, hear.) ptcy reform.
INNCG:a)e_urnsmedetraenrio,lf‘o,iednncchtlfhuarnidosimiliptir:otih,nettwh.aaesss(riHsibgteaeifienotrer.::
they

Mr. MOFFATT said all the consolidations that bad
taken place in the laws of bankruptcy and insolvency had
proved practically a failure. A cumbersome and expensive
machinery had been provided to preServe the property of
the creditors, and but few creditors were willing to avail
themselves of it. (Hear.) He had expected, after the note
of preparation which had been sounded, that some large
and clearly-defined reform of these laws would have been
brought before them that night. (Hear.) He expected that
the noble lord would have brought forward some broad and
effective plan by which the expense and delay now expe-
rienced would have been greatly lessened; but no such
measure had been laid before them. (Hear.) It was the
general complaint of creditors that they could not get at the
assets of a debtor ; that the debtor either set them et de.-
fiance, or drove them into a compromise, leaving on their
minds the conviction that they have not got hold of a _
assets. (Hear.) He had hoped, therefore, that so.ituedoirrs
gent measure would have been proposed by h 0
would be summarily compelled to surrenderm their entire
but he was cum-
property into the hands of their creditors ;point
one clause
pelled to say that he did not find on tdhabti.ing
relief to the
in the bill of the noble lord that w
A referred to the Scotch
latter. (Hear, hear.) Indeed, most of the old defects were
retained in the bill. The noble 101 l
uleasures laid down in
law ; and had he adopted the strong
the
bankrupt estates he would
the Scotch law with regard to
wasvaluable. As regarded
have conferred something
that
ehuidnot believe there was any
the person of the debtor, h
't to oppress or harass him
unduly, but there Wa
desire in the connenTy
a strong
desire, when a per.
son was unable to
meet his debts, that (as the
lied expressed it) the whole of
his property shouldAttAttorney-Generall
pass entirely and promptly to the
creditors. (
hear.) The noble lord did not. propose
to give the on (Bear,
ussiOners power to punish fraud, but pro.
vided that c. tmight be proceeded against by an action at
was to bring this action at law Would the
1"v• Who the trouble and expense of an. action to
creditors be a
individual guilty of fraud ? (Hear, hear.) His
conviction an
ththat, g speaking, creditors I
were sn-
outconviction was
3., b t how to get the
tto everything u t most they could
d ifferen
tate of a bankrupt. (14
of the es k-.ear.) In conclusion,
ho doubted very much whether the bill of the noble lord
would provide any material- amendment of the law as it now
stood. (Hear.)
Leave was then given to bring in the bill, which was
brought up and read a first time.
TURNPIKE TOLLS AND BRIDGES.
ALCO.CIC moved that a humble address be presented
to her Majesty, praying that she will be graciously pleased
to issue a royal commission to inquire into and report as to
the best means of abolishing the tolls on the turnpike roads
and bridges in England and Wales. He said there had been
no tolls in Ireland since April, and they were abolished by
means of a commission. The difficulty in this-country was
the mortgage debt, which amounted to £5,566,000, and the
annual interest was about 1209,000. Now, the amount of
real property assessed to the property tax under schedule A
was X103,0D0000, and a rate of 2d. in the would yield
£BOO,OOO, which would be sufficient to repair the turnpikes
and pay the interest. Mr. Alcock was proceeding with some
further remarks, when
t
An Hon. MEmsEulnoved that the house be counted, and
_,
10
there being only 38 present, the house adjounwa a
saute* past 6 V9IQCI4

period of six years, and the percentage for those six years
is 331 on the amount. (Hear.) Now, when w•e are told that
in Scotland all this business is done, and done effectually to
the satisfaction of the people and to the satisfaction of those

engaged in trade in that commercial country at no more
than 12 per cent., I think the house will agree that the
present state of the law here is capable of amendment. I
will now explain the mode in which we propose to amend
that part of the law. In the first place, we do away with
the absolute necessity of resorting to the official assignee.
In the former state of the law, to which I have adverted►
the creditors on their meeting appointed their own assignee.
The persons engaged in trade in this country are of opinion
that the appointment of an official assignee, however
much that might give regularity to the proceedings, is
a cause of very great expense, and that the official as-
signee, as might be expected, is hardly so diligent and
so rapid in his operations as the persons appoir tod by the
creditors themselves. We propose, therefore, in the first
instance, that the creditors should place the whole of the
sum belonging to the bankrupt in the hands either of the
official assignee, or of an assignee chosen by themselves.
At all events, supposing that they place in the hands of the
official assignee the whole of the proceeds in the first in-
stance, they would afterwards have full power to name an
assignee of their own, and thereby be enabled to get rid of
the delay and expense of the official assignee. I have, how-
ever, alluded to other officers, whose expense is very great,
and who, at every step of these proceedings, diminish the
estate of the bankrupt. I have mentioned the broker and
messenger. It is thought that the broker and messenger
might be entirely dispensed with, and that the assignee
might employ persons to have the custody of the property,
which is all that is required in these cases. Besides this, it
is proposed, with respect to some of the expenses I have
mentioned, which consist of compensation—of payments,
not for duties now performed, but for duties which were
performed a long time ago by other persons then having
offices in the Court, that some part of those expenses should
be placed on the Consolidated fund. It is thought—and I
think reasonably—that, while other courts in this country
which administer justice are placed on the Consolidated
Fund, the court which is to administer judicially with re-
spect to the affairs of a bankrupt—not commercially, but
judicially—should also be maintained at the public charge.
(Rear.) I come next to the distinction, which has existed
front} the sallied of the ACta I have mentioned; between

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