The Sun.
London, England, 1861-04-23 00:00:00

mud savings and wealth of the people, or a great increase of
revenue. There were difficulties with regard to Turkey as
well as the United States, and no one can say there was a
present prospect of their being overcome., If they are not,
what will be the prospects of next year's trade no o hle can
tell ; what are the prospects of the next harvest no one
Anows. It is wise to be prepared for a diminished revenue.
Without touching on the constitutional question, I think
the decision in another place last year was a godsend to the
Exchequer. (Cheers.) Had the paper duty been given tip
the revenue would have been diminished by a million. But
what do you say now ? You say you are quite safe; that
you have a large surplus, and that you may give up the
paper duty. But if you do give it up, recollect that you
cannot put it on again. (Hear, hear.) And why dcs you
give it up ? Is it that the duty is oppressive ? I admit
there are inconveniences in every Excise tar that is an in-
terference with manufacture. But what are the testa of a
duty that is oppressive ? Either that the revenue derived
from it is diminishing, or that it does not keep pace with
an increase in other branches. But I have here a return of
the amount derived from the paper duty, which was made
in another place. It is for the three years 1858-59-60,
and it shows that in 1858 the amount was £1,200,000;
in 18.59 it was X 1,258,000; and in 1860 £1,231,000. No
one can say that an increasing tax is a tax that is
pressing on the resources of the country. (Hear, hear.)
But it is said the House of Commons has declared this
tax to be inexpedient, and has promised to take it off ; and
that nothing releases us from the obligation to remove it
when we think we can remove it fairly. But let me ask
the house have there been no other pledges given ? (Hear,
hear.) Has this house made no other promises ? I be-
lieve that, on financial measures, this house hr given
pledge after pledge, and made promise after promise; e;and
that not by resolutions only, but by formal Acts Parlia-
ment. An act was passed for the gradual
reduction and
removal of the income tax; where is the tax now? An Ad
VMS passed for the reduction of the war duty on tea and
Sugar ; where is it now ? (Hear, hear.) An Act Was
passed creating a Sinking Fund ; where is the Sinking
Fund ? (Hear, hear.) There have been no end of pro-
mises. Do I blame Ministers and Governments for not ad-
hering to these resolutions ? Np; because my conviction
is that the great pledge, resolution, and promise this house
has made is to keep faith with the public creditor, and pro-
vide the means of carrying on the public service, with the
least pressure on the resources, means, and comforts of the
people. (Hear, hear.) That promise we must keep, and
as long as we adhere to this resolution we may dispense
with the removal of a particular tax ; this house is not
bound to repeal a tax if it sees it is not wise to dispense
with it; or if there is a surplus it should apply it to the
reduction of a tax that would reproduce itself by an in-
crease of consumption. But we shall perhaps be told we
are not in the position of a Chancellor of the Exchequer, and
have not his knowledge of our resources. He tells us we
have a surplus, and that we can dispense with a duty
amounting to nearly •X 2,000,000. If so, T say apply it
where you may by a remission, best promote the enjoyment
of the people, and yet retain a power of raising a future
taxation, if necessary. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the
income-tax, I believe we underrate its pressure. When I
think it is to be made our only source, or our only great
source for patching up our wants in time of peace, I confess
I do not see how it is to be applied in time of war. I should
think any surplus would be best used to make a remission
of the import duty on tea, because the temporary loss of
. revenue might be turned into an increase. I have said that
our trade to other parts of the world is not in a prosperous
condition. We have now a new source of trade open to us,
having, by arms, forced an entrance into China. We
have gained the opening of various ports in China, and
increased facilities of access there. Well, then, what will
you do for China ? You expect to extend your trade
with her. How will youenable her to pay for the manufac-
tures which you hope she will take from us ? The natural
answer is—by taking more of her tea—(hear, hear) ; and
_remember that in so doing you not only increase your com-
merce with China, but your manufacturers at home, who
thus find a greater demand for their products, will be able to
employ more labour. (Hear, hear.) By reducing the tea
duty I believe we shall benefit to a far greater extent than by the remission of the paper duty to those whose welfare I
am sure all here are anxious to promote, although some may
arrogate to themselves the peculiar merit of considering it—
I mean the welfare of the poorer classes of this country,
(Cheers.) There is no doubt that our consumption of tea '
might be greatly increased. It has generally increased, ex-
cept during-last year, by about 5,000,0001 b. annually, and
with a reduction of duty our consumption might be still
further extended. (Hear.) There is now brought within
our reach another country with which we have recently
commenced a trade, and which produces tea to a great extent
—linean. Japan. Well, if we really have this surplus, and if
it be not a deceptive surplus (hear), let us applyit in such
a way as will stimulate trade with these countries, benefit
emir manufactures, and improve the social condition of the
people. (Cheers.) I confess, Sir, I have a strong opinion
that the course proposed by her Majesty's Government for
the abolition of the paper duties is neither wise nor safe,
and I beg the Ministry to reconsider the matter; I beg them
to ascertain whether their future position is so secure that
they can afford to wipe off at once and completely this
source of revenue. (Hear, hear.) I say this from no wish to
disturb their position on the bench, for there is no calamity
which at present I should more deeply deplore than a suc-
cession of weak Governments. (Hear, hear.) I desire a
strong Government ; but I am convinced that neither this
present Ministry—strong as they may be in talent and in
the majority at their command in this House—nor any
other can be strong unless they possess a strong financial
position. (Cheers.) lam convinced that, unless you give
evidence to the world as well as to this country that
your finances cannot be embarrassdd, you cannot exercise
that influence and that power which it is desirable you should
possess abroad, nor can youwith safety carry on the Govern-
ment at home. (Hear, hear.) While the country is in a
state of comparative prosperity, direct taxation may be-as-
sented to; but in a knoment of reverse and of trial public
opinion may pronounce against the income tax. (Hear.)
We have heard from the Chancellor of the Exchequer that
the only made of removing or reducing the income-tax is
by reducing the expenditure. That is an admission that
there are no other taxes to which we can resort. Now, re-
duction of expenditure, as I said before, is not only desir-
able, but it is the duty of this house, when it can, to en-
force it. Let the strictest economy prevail, but do not let
us, under the plea of economy or reduction of expenditure,
move a stone in the fabric of the Government or jeopardise
the safety of our trade. (Hear, hear.) If the apprehensions
which I have expressed, and sincerely expressed, may be
thought to possess any weight, I beg they may be consi-
sklered by the house and the Government. Let me ask the
Government to remember that whatever may be the feeling
of the country, whatever the pressure brought to bear upon
them far the removal of a tax, it is their duty to weigh the
consequences of such a remission, and upon their shoulders
rests the responsibility of jeopardising the national interests
and the national finance. (Hear, hear.) I beg pardon of
the house for having troubled them so long, but I am bound
to say that, if the question be put to me whether the pre-
sent financial measures are safe, wise, and politic, or even
(I may say so without offence) honest to the country, I
cannot, if I am to decide aye or no, answer this question
otherwise than in the negative. (hear, hear.) I trust,
however, that both the Government and this house have
still time for reflection, and I trust that upon this matter
they will come to such a decision as will show that they are
determined to act more wisely and to consult more surely
the safety of the national finances than by carrying out any
temporal+ engagements into which they may have en-
tered. I,trust that they will feel the responsibility which
rests upon them of providing against every danger, instead
of acting from jealousy of any supposed interference with
their privileges. Such a feeling ought not to influence the
House of Commons, and I hope will not influence them
when they have to decide on measures which involve the
credit of the nation and the interests of the people. (Loud
sheers.)

~.
Mr. WRITE understood the hon. gentleman who had
just sat down to recommend in lieu of the proposed remis-
sion of the paper duties and the reluction of the income-tax
a reduction of the tea duty from ls. sd. to Is. per pound.
Now, it was wise policy in effecting any remission of duty
tomake such proposals that the whole amount remitted
would go into the pockets of the people. But on this point
he would remind the house that when the duty on tea was
2s. 21(1., the price to the consumer, from 1849 to 1852 in-
clusive—taking the common congou as the staple of value—
was 9/d. per lb. in bond, while- the average price for four
years ending in 1860, with a duty of ls. 5d., was ls. 3/d.,
so that tlAcre had been a remission of duty to the extent ol
3.5 per cent., wltl.. gain to the consumer of only 17 per cent.
Nor were the last four yevarg exceptional ones as regarded
the amount of imports, for, white during the first period
selected by him the average import was 59,225,000. b., from
1857 to 1860 it was 75,000,0001 b. (Hear, hear.) Until the
new ports were completely opened, and our intercourse with
the Chinese was more extended, and until some progress
had been made in the pacification of the country, a reduc-
tion of duty would not be followed by such a reduction of
Vice as would justify the Chancellor of the Exchequer in
Proposing it. (Hear, hear.)
turd IL MON I'AGU said the speech of the Chancellor
TofttilleciExchequer was on Monday evening full of words and
of be ending periods, which kept out of sight the real view
the hopes tin, and which ought to have been placed before
gentleman Ite did not mean to say that the right hon.
no doubt taket ii't'uti°na"Y
misled the house, but he had
country. No._4‘tou sanguine view of the finances of the
inovnio tax,
it`rvvlaen he spoke of remitting a penny of the
always pleasant
Pleasant sound to the house. It was
to bk. •
,rr ,tf,a rcinission of taxes. But what
wa3 really the case?
incQuie tax, and therefore teh was in fact no such thing as an
hc.e right hon. gentleman could
net remit i ho ld., but What
rdsed to do was to impOse
sound so well to the
for the next year an income tax Port?
ho that way of putting
the case did not
year
Avu
1: The
magnificent
right.fi hon.
'a budget of last
behold at the
gentleman
ati)intmt,bustgii cent ebxle-
plosion, beautiful to
to the eye when they came to walk over the rains
rgreea
.ic rams caused
by if. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman had how_
daties—tbey had proinced nothinr,
uver,
last year no less than four budgets, and What has
th ,
ey pro-
duced ? Take the penny
but trouble, obstruction, and •-delay. Then the right hon
gentleman counted upon saving a large sum in the collec-
tion of tit(' revenue, but later in the year he coufel,a4 that
his hopes had been too sanguine. On the Customs ana

r,

Excise there had been a considerable falling off, and the
right hon. gentleman had borrowed £1,000,000 on Exche.•
quer bills. Now with a failure of the right hon. gentle;
man's expectations of last year before them, they were jus-
tified in saying that he had not made sufficient provision for
the year. The tight_hon. gentleman proposed to dispense
with half the paper duty this year, and the whole of itnext
year, and he would bi so doing compromise the income of
the country need year to the extent of 21 millions, and at
the Same time he would have to provide a million of Ex-
chequer Bills in 1E62, and another million in 1863. Upon
the conduct of the right hon. gentleman he would deliver
no judgment of his own, but in the words of himself, and
in 1857, he said it was the duty of the house to see that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer would be able to pay his way.
(Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman proposed to re-
impose the income tax for one year only, and thus next
year he would have a deficit of £10,000,000. But in 1857
the right hon. gentleman protested against this mode of
dealing with the taxation and expenditure of the coun-
try, and said that the voting of the income tax from year
to year took away from its solidity and character. (Hear,
hear.) The right hon. gentleman in 1853 condemned the ,
income tax because it tended to cause immorality, ,
and he now proposed to reimpose it for another year.
With regard to the paper duty, he altogether objected to
the term that it was a tax upon knowledge. That was
begging the question. It was no such thing, and the returns
lately presented to the other house would show that this
al
tax did not in any way hamper or interfere with trade,
while, on the other hand, the tea and sugar duties were fiscal
regulations which did press heavily upon the importations
of the country, which was shown from the falling off in the
revenue this year. It seemed to him (Lord R. Montagu)
that the repeal of the paper duty was the only one that
could not renew itself, while the reduction of the duties on
tea, sugar, and tobacco would cause so great an increasein
consumption as that there would be no loss to the revenue.
The repeal of the paper duty was for the purpose of
benefitting the newspapers which misinformed, misguided,
and misled the million. (" Heart hear,"from Mr. Hennessy.)
The right hon. gentleman, in 1857, said that the war duties
on tea and sugar were granted on the express condition that
in time of peace they should be taken off, and he then said
he should invite the house to declare that they ought not to
impose taxes on the articles consumed by the working man.
(H ear, hear.) He (Lord R. Montagu) thought that it
would be much more acceptable to the working classes to
reduce the duties on tea and sugar than to take off the
paper duty, for on his return home the poor man would be
refreshed by a good cup of tea; while he would only doze
over a penny newspaper. (Hear, hear.) The abolition of
the paper duty would not benefit the working man, it
would not affect his interests in any way; and not only so,
but when once taken off, it could never be re-imposed.
There would be no recovery to the revenue, and no
corresponding benefit to the country. If that were so, they
should reduce the income-tax another penny, and provide
for the gradual abolition of a tax which the right hon, gen-
tleman said in 1857 was a dangerous instrument in time of
peace. After all it might be asked whether the right hon.
gentleman would have a surplus next year, and were they
certain that no extraordinary circumstances would arise to
cause further expenditure to this country ? Let them look
to what was taking place on-the Continent. Since the war
in Italy France had lined the southern shores of Geneva
with her army, and taken up a position in Syria and on the
Red Sea. She sat on the Seven Hills of Rome,ready at any
moment to crush the rising liberties of the new-born king-
dom of Italy. She had created dissensions in Hungary,
Schleswig-Holstein, and in Poland, and it might be asked
what new aggrandisement would the present Emperor next
undertake against the other powers of Europe ? (Hear.)
Let them look at the United States, or rather the disunited
States, which were in a condition of commercial disorganisa-
tion. Oar trade with the North was impaired; our imports
with the South were diminished. Was that a time when
the busy note of preparation for war was heard, when last
year they were called upon to patch up a budget which was
confessedly inadequate to the wants of the country, to Ills-
perm with any source of revenue which should be nursed
and husbanded to meet the coming strain?; (Cheers.)
Mr. BAXTER said he would not attempt to follow the
noble lord, but he would make a few remarks upon what
fell from the hon. gentleman opposite. They must all feel
that there was no man in that house more competent to give
an opinion on matters of this nature than the hon. gentleman.
But he (Mr. Baxter) could not forget that the hon. gentleman
was one of those representatives who went a long way in
resisting those free-trade measures which had since met
with universal adoption in this country. He was sorry t.,
hear the hon, gentleman take exception to a budget which
he believed to be based on the true principles of financial
legislation, They all knew that a leading organ of public
opinion had foretold a deficit of £3,500,000. Many hon,
gentlemen who had not a prejudice against the financial policy
of the ;hon. gentleman must admit that the vote for the
China war of £3,800,000 was a special and extraordinary
vote, and could not of course be included in the account/ of
the expenditure of the year 1861-62. That was the great
error in all these calculations. But he felt certain that
every hon. gentleman Ndho had all along been a warm advo-
cate of the principles of free trade must have listened with
mingled feelings of gratification and surprise, netwithstand •
ing what had fallen from the noble lord to the triumphant
vindication of the policy of the hon. gentleman as declared
last year. (Hear.) It was not difficult to prove that all
the idle prophecies which they had heard with respect to
that policy had been scattered to the winds; and its success
was more and more a proof of the wonderful results of the
great principles of free trade, which the hon. member for
Huntingdon had so steadily opposed, and for the inaugura-
tion of which they were indebted to the sagacity of Mr.
Cobden, and the high-minded patriotism of Sir R. Peel.
The honourable gentleman no doubt was entitled to speak
on behalf of those men in the City who disapprove of the
policy of the right honourable gentleman, who preferred
what they called a " safe" Chancellor of the Exchequer.
(" Hear, hear," from the opposition.) But what did these
objectors mean by a safe Chancellor of the Exchequer ? A
Chancellor of the Exchequer who would do nothing ; a:Tory
Chancellor of the Exchequer who would be quite content
to preserve accounts on the square, a book-keeper of state,
and without adapting, as the right honourable gentleman
had frequently done, his financial arrangements
to the wants and fair requirements of this great population.
Two main objections he (Mr. Baxter) had heard taken out
of doors to the budget of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
one of which only had been glanced at by the hon. member
for Huntingdon. The hon. gentleman admitted that the
estimates of the right hon. gentleman for the ensuing year
were likely to be correct. He (Mr. Baxter) understood the
hon. gentleman to say he believed they were not founded
on any over sanguine view of the resources of the country.
But, then, in a subsequent part of his speech the hon. gen-
tleman went to advert to the prospect of diminished trade,
arising from the prospects of Turkey and the United States,
to show that the revenue for next year would not be so
large as had been anticipated by the Chancellor of the Ex-
ebrequer. These statements appeared to his mind some-
what contradictory.
Mr. BARING—What I said was that I thought these
' were safe calculations in a time of ordinary prosperity.
Mr. BAXTER begged the hon. gentleman's pardon. If
that were so, the hon. gentleman did not admit that these
were times of ordinary prosperity. In that respect, no
doubt, he did but re-echo the sentiments held by a consi-
derable party oat of doors. But he (Mr. Baxter) could not
*it that the budget was open to these criticisms. These
objections of the hon. gentleman were quite contrary to the
views of the hea is of the different departments, who were
competent to form correct opinions" on the subject. He
(Mr. Baxter) found that the actual yield,of customs for
1860-61 had been £23,305,000; and all the right hon. gen-
tleman calculated for from the same source for 1861-62 was
£23,585,000, being an increase of only £280,000, which he
maintained to be a very reasonable amountof increase when
they considered the bad harvest of last year, the exceptional
state of things, the resources of the country, and the in-
crease of population. On the excise the Chancellor of the
Exchequer only looked for an increase of £28,000; and on
stamps of £112,000. These were calculations which
wholly exonerated the Chancellor of the Exchequer from
the criticisms of the hoh. gentleman. He (Mr. Baxter)
thought the right hon. gentleman had even under
estimated the yield of revenue. The hon. gentleman (Mr.
Baring) then said that these estimates would be all very
well in time of peace, but he called upon the Chancellor of
the Exchequer to provide for the possibility of an impend-
ing war and a defective harvest. He (Mr. Baxter) however
thought that a Chancellor of the Exchequer ought not to be
called upon to take into account such remote contingencies:
Before concluding, he must express his gratitude to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer for the remarks with which he
concluded his speech the other night regarding the expen-
diture of the country. That was a subject which could not
too frequently engage the attention of the t louse of Cora •
mom, as there was a growing conviction in the public
mind that the expenditure should be' considerably but
gradually reduced. If they continued their present
enormous expenditure in time of peace, they might de.
pend upon it, not only would serious discontent arise
amongst the ratepayers, but it would ultimately lead
to a more sweeping reduction at some future day than
the most prudent man was prepared for. The whole
expenditure of the United States for 'general purposes was
not more than £20,000,000, with a population of 33,000,000.
He must observe that nothing could exceed the good faith,
liberality, and good feeling of the Emperor of the French in
carrying out the details of the treaty. The merchants of
this country-were beginning to find out the advantages they
were likely t 3 Obtain ; and before a dozen years had elapsed
ho felt persuaded all would look back with astonishment to
see how little commercial intercourse there had been be-
tween the two countries before Mr. Cobden undertook his
ruo,t beneficent but difficult and laborious task. (Hear.)
Mr. B. STANHOPE said that if the hon. gentleman
would allow him he would point out his- objections to that
portion of the budget which- related to the remission of
duties. He did so because he did not believe the right hon.
gentleman had any surplus to deal with. The right hon.
gentleman claimed a surplus of £1,900,000, out of which
he proposed to take -050,000 for income tax, and
£665,000 for the paper duties. Now what he (Mr.
B. Stanhope) had always been told was, that a real surplus
was the balance between the expenditure of the country
and thoso• taxes which already existed, which had been
given by parliament, and were at the disposal of the C4an-
t'eilor of the Exchequer. Th..t was a surplus which did

of public business that I make this observation, for I am
quite convinced that if hon. members are prevented from
availing themaelves of this opportunity for a general
discussion, we shall not 'make thtit rfrogre§s committee
which the noble lord contemplates. On each resolutions
instead of a discussion confined t) its particular
merits, there will be a discussion, not strictly reglaarf
but of Parliamentary practice, on the whole
plan of the Government. Therefore I- have ad-

vised, as far as I could influence the course of business here,
that this opportunity should be taken for a general discus-
elost,. The discussion to-night emanated, not from
bench, but from from what are called the independentraew
hers of the house, represented on this occasion by One ofthe
most eminent of their number. (Hear, hear.) It is'iol-
- for the committee to form an opinion on any of the
resolutions without further information on various 10111-
of the scheme. I have, indeed, not made up my ruic4;lo-
4
to what course I shall take in committee. Much will ';
pend on the tone of the debate and the explanations witle
we receive from the Government. For instance, it is esser
tial to a clear appreciation of our financial position that SrB
should know how the last deficit has been providectibr'
what is the exact surplus upon which we can really coo"t
whether we may legitimately assure ourselves that the.o,l
of money will arrive from China, and so on. I mention.llils
because the noble lord, from the tone of his remarks, set Oea
to think that it is an unusual course to take this opportt ate
of discussing the propositions of the Government. If th
debate is continued in the same spirit and Manner in wire;
it has been pursued to-night, I have no doubt we sb
arrive at suCh a result that when the house goes into solar
mittee we shall transact our business with greater flail
and effect. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I anigl
it was not the intention of my noble friend to comictisi3.,
the course which has been taken. I think that it is a legiv‘
mate and desirable one, for it gives to every one an opporl,lr
51,
nity of asking for information on the various points of
scheme, in their relation to each other. I share, howeveri
the anxiety of my noble friesd that the discussion withOw,
being in the slightest degree unduly abridged, shoul&
proceeded with as rapidly as possible. There are motiO
standing for to-morrow, which prevent us from restunifig
the debate till Thursday. It is-important, on account, °f
the very complicated promedings in the revenue depse
ment, which are connected with the renewal of the incovs r
tax in a year when a new assessment is made, that the discus'
sions on this subject should be taken at as early a date .05
possible. We shall think it our duty, in case the debs
does not terminate on Thursday, to ask for leave to go Oil
from day to day with the financial proposition until ele
main subjects are disposed of, and we earnestly trust fe
shall receive the approval and support of the house. 01
making that request. (Hear, hear.)
The debate was then adjourned.
SCOTCH PARISHES.

Mr. DUNLOP obtained leave to bring in a bill to mace
provision for the dissolution of combinations of parishes io
Scotland as to the management of the poor, which was reed
a first time.

On the motion of Mr. COWPER, Colonel French and Col.
Dunne were added to the Select Committee on the Public-
offices Extension Bill.
The house adjommed at 12 o'clock.

COUNTRY 111ABABTS.

COLCHESTER -APRIL DLO.

A fair supply of wheat, and best samples made fornler
prices; inferior sorts lower in price. Malting barley .more
inquired for, but the supply is nearly over. Beans 2s Per
qr. dearer. Peas much the same as of late.

Wheat, white 6os to 68s I Beans, Mazagan..32s to 365
red ~ 44s to 608 Middle & small 38s to 460
Barley , 4os to 48s I White peas 44. to 400
Oats —s to —s Grey, . 3Bs to 4,48

CHELMSFORD—APRIL 19.
A fair supply of wheat, in a trifle better condition. Best
wheats barely maintained late rates. Business dull.
~
Wheat, white 38s to 66s I cas Partridge ..44s to 40
I red 47s to 63s White 43s to 463
Barley 29s to 42s Boiling 43s-to 470
Chevalier ....32s to 45s Dun 40s to 433
Grinding 26s to 37s Beans, Tick ....37s to 463
Malt 61s to 67s Harrow Ticks 38s to 430
Chevalier 64g to 69s i Mazagan 31s to 435
Oats 26$ to 31s r •

STAMFORD-APRIL 20.

There was a tolerable show of wheat at market, and late
prices were exceeded is per qr.
Wheat ....563 to 62s 1 Oatg., ~ 26s to 31s
White do 60s to 66s I Beans 4os to 463
Barley .....30s to 44s 1 Ditto, old ........58s to 6O

KIRKALDY—ApRm 20.
Wheat Barley Oats
First—. 36s Od 32s Od 2ys Od
Second.. 56s Od 408 Od 298 Od
Third .. 64s Od 43s Od 33s' Od

.ET—APRIL 22.
the close of the market

Walls End.
South Heti on ...19 8
Hartlepool.... lB
Heugh Hall 16 6
Cassop .. l7
Brt-ddyll's Hetton 17 or
Franc wellgate ....: 10 g
Harton

Edon Main ...17 0
Eden 16 9
Thorpe
Triinclon Thornley....ls S
Whitworth.. ..... ....16 0
Kelloe
South Hartlepool...... 17 0
Hedley 16 3
Tunstall
70 ; sold, sg,