The Sun.
London, England, 1859-04-08 00:00:00

PETITIONS:

Several petitions were presented against any alteration in
the hop duty ; the continuance of the present ecclesiastical
courts in Ireland ; and the endowed schools bill.

STATE OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS.
Lord PALMERSTON gave notice that, on the motion
for adjournment to-morrow, he would make some ob-
servations on the present state of our foreign relations,
and ask the Government to state, if they could do so
consistently with the public service, in what position this
country stood with regard to the discussion that was going
on at Paris. (Hear, hear.)
IMPRISONMENT OF COUNTY COURT
DEBTORS.

Mr. B. HUGHES asked the Attorney-General what
steps (if any) had been taken to prevent the practice of im-
prisoning debtors who were confined under judgments of
County Courts in a remand ward; and if any incon-
venience would arise by making the rule applicable to
fraudulent debtors, and not to mere cases of contempt for
non-payment.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that since the ques-
tion was brought before the house the other evening he
had looked into the act bearing on the subject, and he found
it was provided that County Court debtors were not to be hn-
prisoned except it had been proved that they were guilty of
fraudulent practices. However, a power was vested in the
county courtj udges to commit debtors if they did not give satis-
factory answers to questions that might be asked of them.
The subject was being inquired into, and if it was found
that the judges, in the exercise of their power, had acted
improperly, an alteration in the law would be proposed.
TENANTS COMPENSATION (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. GREER asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland,
whether the proposed Tenants Compensation Bill for Ire-
land would be laid on the table of the house before the pro-
rogation of Parliament; and also whether he had obtained
any explanation with regard to the eviction of the Rev. Dr.
O'Fay F
Lord NAAS said that two bills on th,s subject were pre-
pared, but it could not be expected that they would be laid
on the table during the present Parliament; but imme-
diately after the meeting of next Parliament they would be
introduced. A letter had been received from the rev. gen-
tleman alluded to, in which he stated that he had received
no communication to the effect that the eviction which was
apprehended would be carried out.
In reply to Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD,
Lord NAAS said that the bills would be much the same
as those which had been previously introduced. He could
not then state in what particulars they would differ from
them.

ECCLESIASTICAL REGISTRATION BILL.
In reply to Mr. LEFROY7
Lord NAAS said it was not intended to proceed with this
bill at present.
MANOR COURTS, &c. (IRELAND) BILL.
The Lords' amendments to this bill were considered and
agreed to, and the bill was ordered for third reading.
The report of suly SUPPLY.
PP was brought up.
On the resolution fur a vote of £2,000,000 for Exchequer
bonds,
Sir G. C. LEWIS asked some questions in reference to
the same,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it

was his intention to have made a financial statement to the
house on Monday next, but, of course, from what had oc-
curred, it could not be expected that he would do so. With
reference to the particular item of £2,000,000 Exchequer-
bonds, arrangements had been made, and it was his mten-
tention to pay off the whole deficiency, not to renew those
bonds, or to borrow money for that purpose.
The other resolutions were agreed to, and the house
went into committee of supply.
The following votes on account were agreed to :
£450,000 for wages of artificers, &c., in the naval estab-
lishments at home ;
£15,000 for wages of artificers, &c., in the naval estrblish-
ments abroad ;
£700,000 for naval stores for building and outfit of the
fleet, for steam machinery, &c.;
£lBO,OOO towards the expense for new works, &c., in the
naval department ;
£15,000 for medicines, medical stores, &c., in the naval
department ;
£22,000 towards the expense for miscellaneous services in
the naval department.
On the vote of £350,000, " on account" towards defraying
the half-pay retirement, &c., in the navy,
Mr. LINDSAY said that the First Lord of the Admiralty
had intimated his intention of bringing forward some plan
dealing with the retirement list, and he wished to know
whether anything had been done in respect to that plan.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he had a plan before him with
respect to naval promotion and retirement, but he could not
venture to carry it into effect without considerable consul-
tation and the most mature deliberation. He had it, how-
ever, in contemplation, and he was convinced that great
improvements might be effected, and must ere long be
effected.
Sir C.NAPIER said that Parliament had been extremely
liberal already in respect to retirement ; and the conse-
quence was that a great many good officers, some much
younger than others remaining in the service, had been put
out of commission. He, of course, could not tell what the
First Lord of the Admiralty contemplated, but he hoped
that the House of Commons would not agree to give more
money for retirement, because the steps taken already were
ample.
The vote was then agreed to, as were also the following
votes "on account :"
£204,000 for military pensions and allowances in the
naval department -
£BO,OOO for civil pensions and allowances in the naval
department ;
£70,000 for freighting ships for the conveyance of
troops, &c.
On the vote of £300,000 "on account" for the packet
service.
Sir C. NAPIER inquired whether there was any inten-
tion to take this vote from the navy estimates altogether.
The affairs of the packets would be better arranged if left
entirely to the Post-effice.
Sir J. PAKINGTON certainly thought that this vote
ought not to belong to the navy estimates, but ought to
form part of the Post-office estimates, as formerly.
Mr. WILSON said that the vote had nothing to do with
the naval service, and ought not to be mixed up with it ;
but the Admiralty, having the management of the packets,
should have the control of the vote.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said that of course he must sub-
mit if there was a reason for attaching this vote to the navy
estimates, which must then continue to be swelled out by
an expenditure with which the naval service had nothing
to do.
Mr. B. MOORE hoped to see the day when contract
packets would no longer be maintained, but when ships be-
longing to the Royal navy would be employed in the mail
service under the command of meritorious officers, to whom
such employment would be a reward, and a nucleus would
thus be formed for keeping up an efficient force of seamen,
who would be available in case .of necessity. No less than
$,000,000 was now expended annually upon the mail con-
tract service, which migb tbe employed in such a manner
as to secure a reserve of able and experienced seamen, who
might at once be available in case of emergency. One of
the conditions of the mail contracts was, that the ships
employed in that service should be fitted in such a manner
and should be of such strength as to be capable of carrying
the heaviest guns used in her Majesty's navy, but he
believed that out of the immense fleet of vessels em-
ployed as contract packets there was not one which was
fitted for carrying guns according to the contract. He
hoped this subject would receive the attention of the
right hon. baronet the First Lord of the Admiralty,
and that an end would be put as soon as possible to the pre-
sent system of contracts. Such contracts might be advan•
tageous in establishing new communications, but he held
that when trade was once opened to any part of the world
the continuance of a system of subsidies was most injurious
to the public interests. He believed that not one of the com-
panies who supplied contract packets paid back to the Post-
office in revenue the amount they received for the contracts.
He had seen it stated that £30,000 was paid annually for
carrying the South American mails, and that the .revenue
returned was £32,000, but this contract was merely a rider
to another contract of £240,000 for carrying the West India
mails, and he should like to know what were the postal re-
turns upon that contract.
Sir C. NAPIER did not concur in the views of the hon.
gentleman, for if our men-of-war were devoted to the con-
veyance of letters alone to different parts of the world, the
expense of the service would be much greater than under
the contract system ; while if they were also required to
carry passengers, the consequence would be that the packets
would become floating hotels and naval officers would be
turned into hotelkeepers. This had been the case under the
old system, but he hoped it would never occur again.
Sir G. ECHELL called the attention of the First Lord
of the Admiralty to the valuable invention of Captain Ky-
naston, R.N., for lowering boats from the quarter and stern
of ships when going fast through the water, by which means
many lives might be saved. l'he value of the invention had
lately been demonstrated on board her Majesty's ship
Euryalus (the vessel in which Prince Alfred was serving),
when, a seaman having fallen overboard off Alexandria,
the boat was lowered in a strong wind and heavy sea, the
ship going eight knots through the water, and the man was
saved. He (Sir G. Pechell) wished the right hon. baronet to
obtain a report of the different trials made of Captain Ky-
na.ston's disengaginc, hooks 7 and, as rewards were given for
valuable inventions for the destruction of life by means of
explosive materials and large buns—as baronetages, and
perhaps peerages, were the rewards of such inventions, it
was certainly expedient that some due acknowledgment
should be awarded to those who had projected the means of
saving life. Captain Kynaston was suffering from wounds
sustained in the Crimea, and his case was in every way de-
serving of consideration.
Sir J. PAKINGTON could only repeat what he had said
yesterday—that the experimental trials of the invention
were not completed, and that the Admiralty were not yet
in possession of any report on the subject. He sympe.thised
most sincerely with Captain Kynaston under his sufferings,
which were the result of valuable services rendered to his
country, and he also felt grateful to that gallant officer for
the endeavours he had made to bring to perfection a mos+
useful invention for the preservation of life. lie heartily
hoped, for the sake of the gallant officer, that his invention
might prove successful, but he was not at present in a posi-
tion to produce the report for which the hon. and gallant
member for Brighton had asked.
On the vote of £150,C00 on account of the charge for
clothing and necessaries for the army,
Mr. WILLIAMS called attention to the expenditure in-
cm-red for the clothing of the Guards as compared with the
regiments of the line. The annual cost of the clothing of
the Horse Guards was £8 15s. 2d. per man, while the cost
of cavalry of the line was £5 Bs. per man. The annual cost
of clothing for the Foot Guards was at the rate of £4 2s. Bd.
per man, and for the line of £2 6s. 6d. per man. The cost
of the Guards was, therefore, very nearly double that of
regiments of the line, and although he wished to see the
army properly clothed, he thought the committee ought to
know the reason of this difference.
General PEEL said that there was no difference what-
ever in the clothing of the Guards for this as compared
with previous years ; but there had been a reduction of
£5,000 under this head. He did not think much fault
could be found with the cost of the clothing of the army
when the Line were supplied at only £2 6s. 6d. per man
per annum. (Hear.) On the whole vote there was a de-
crease this year of £289,460 as compared with 1858-9. A
portion of this decrease was occasioned by the fact that
they were enabled to dispense with the large store which
was formerly necessary, and that the number of free kits
now issued was much legs than formerly. The only
,differ-
once between the prese*Coact the old system wa-.lthittithe
clothi n.- was. suypliedlsolle War-aice instead' laf by the
`•t clotMeCofonels:"-`"Tlier nitre contractors were- engaged,-
and the cloth was of very good quality.
Gen. CODRINGTON had heard an hon. gentleman, a
member of the contracts' committee, say that the change to
what was called the Weedon system had cost this country
at least £lOO,OOO a year, besides destroying the responsibi-
lity which used to prevail in regard to the clothing. But
the system had again been changed.; the War-office now
made the contracts direct with the different firms, and the
responsibility, instead of attaching, as formerly to the
"clothing colonels," devolved on those contractors, whose
good name would of course suffer if any complaints were
found necesssary.
The vote was then agreed to, as were also the following :
£12,000 on account of rewards for military service,
£35,000 on account of pay of general officers,
£240,000 on account of pay of reduced and•retiied officers,
£90,000 on account of widows' pensions and compassionate
allowances,
£20,000 on account of pensions and allowances to wounded
officers,

£13,000 on account of in-pensions at Chelsea and Kil-
mainham Hospitals,£.sso,ooo on account of out-pensions, and
£66,000 for superannuation allowances, &c.
General PEEL said he had now to propose a supplemental
estimate of £30,000 for the establishment of a manufactory
of Sir William Armstrong's guns at Woolwich to be under
the immediate superintendence of that gentleman.
Lord PALMERSTON asked what had been done with
regard to the large mortar invented and made- by Mr.
Mallet. He understood that there had been several trials
of this weapon, that in the main it had succeeded, and that,
though parts of the mortar had at different times given
way, these defects had been on each occasion remedied. At
the last experiment one of the stays which held together
the segments of which the mortar was compounded, being
more tightened than the other stays, and having therefore
to bear the whole strain of the explosion, gave way, but
another stay was ready, and that accident was no proof
whatever of failure. Hitherto, he understood, the mortar
had not been tried with a full charge calculated to produce
the greatest range of flight, and as yet no experiment had
been made, by burying one of the shells to the depth to
which it would probably penetrate when falling loaded at
the end of its flight, and then exploding it while so buried,
in order to see what would be the extent of the crater which
the explosion would produce. He thought it exceedingly
important that the weapon should be tried to the utmost,
and he wished to know, therefore, whether these trials had
been made, and, if not, what reason existed for not carry-
ing the experiments further so as to ascertain the applica-
bility of the mortar for warlike purposes.
General PEEL said he had had no notice of the question,
and therefore could only speak from memory, but as far as
he recollected an expense of nearly £13,000 had been al-
ready incurred in the trial of this mortar, and the last re-
port of the Ordnance Committee was to the effect that they
did not consider it advisable to continue these experiments.
He did not say that the experiments should not be renewed,
but at the present moment the Ordnance Committee did
not think it advisable to incur any further , expenditure in
this way.
Captain VIVIAN asked whether the Government in-
tended to persevere in their determination to send out 12
Fiuropean batteries of artillery. to India? The noble lord
%Ord Stanley) had stated the other night that this was the •
intention of the Government, but ho had given no sufficient
reason for sending out such a large force at a very great
expense at a moment when the rebellion was at an end,
when there was no enemy to meet in the field, and when
there was scarcely a fortification standing.
General PEEL said that the requisition for the 12 bat-
teries to which the hon. and gallant gentleman referred had
emanated from the Indian Government. His noble friend
the Secretary for India had, however, informed him that
only one-half of the number which—had been originally
asked for would be required. - '
Colonel SYKES observed that when the requisition for