The Sun.
London, England, 1861-02-06 00:00:00

.0 6ftmelk..l

f;reat perplexity exists in the pul alic mind , and on which
we should hardly be doing our (-silty to the country if on
this occasion we did not make a ,ome inq' airy of the Govern-
ment.atry is 'extremely bewildered
The mind of the coin
as to the general state of affairrs and th e policy of the Govern-
ment. I know it may be, said. that, as the Government
have undertaken to produce the pape rs on the subjects I
refer to, the reguhar course would be to wait till those docu-
ments have been 'laid before us; but the most peculiar cir-
cumstance of 0- se present state of affairs is that the perplexity
in the publ'x mind concerning our foreign relations and the
policy of the Government in regard to them 'does not arise
from want of information, (Hear, hear.) I' t is rather in
consequence of the information we possess -that the public
mind is so bewildered, Therefore, on accour .t of the general
mystification which prevails I think this 'is the constitu-
tion-al occasion which should be taken for addressing s'ome
irequiries to the Government on the ma t ter. I remember
'some two or three years ago that there was a steong feeling
in the country against what was calle fl secs-et diplomacy.
To secret diplomacy were attributed 1 navy, if not all, of
those evils to which States are subj' tct—unnecessary and
expensive wars, costly and unprincipl ed establishments, the
'burden of excessive taxes, often the dishonour and some-
times the humiliation of nations. s cry was that, if the
Minister would only take the put JUT into his confidence,
allow them to know how things w ere going on, and what
:really were the points at issue between us and foreign
Powers, he would then be so gu. tded by the judgment and
so encouraged by the support of'Parliament and the country
that he would be preserved frof a falling into those errors to
which he would otherwise be liable. It was shown that the
proper mode of conducting pl ablic affairs and of winning
;popular applause for the Ge vernment was to publish all
ethey knew. Such were the maxims of. what may be called
the school of openness and candour. It is greatly to the
credit of the Government t hat they have acted with great
frankness to the House of Commons, upon the subject of our
foreign relations. Their candour has often been excessive,
and sometimes even unnecessary, 'What may have been the
cause of so much openness on the part of the Government
I will not stop to inquire_ The Ministry acceded to power,
as we have been reminded by the hon. mover and seconder
(of the Address, under somewhat peculiar and embarrassing
circumstances. They were certainly unable to fulfil the chief
pledges under which they accepted office, and the balance
of parties made them naturally desirous to conciliate the
eonfidence and sympathy ,sf the House. To this, it has been
hinted, we probably owe the extreme candour with which
the Government conduc feel their foreign relations, and im-
parted to the house all 'ant information which was necessary
to make us acquainted with their policy. There was no pro-
ject which had failed, no' scheme in which they had been dis-
appointed, no occas;.on. ,on which they had been deceived, that
they did not in the most ingenuous manner reveal to the
house and make them partakers of their mortification and
chagrin. (Alaugh.) Indeed, it may be said that during the
/last year the House of Commons were really admitted to
dim brooding meditations of statesmen. The noble lord
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs came down to the
house one evening, and with an appearance of much alarm,
which he successfuldy imparted to the house, declared that
the time had coma when it was necessary to look out for
new allies for her Majesty. (Laughter, and hear.) 'We
were all naturally surprised by such candour. What in old
times—in the days of secret diplomacy—would have been a
soliloquy ita Downing-street becomes now a speech in the
House of Commons. (Hear, and a laugh.) That was the
manner in which our foreign relations were conducted by
the noble lord during the. whole of the last session, and cer-
tainly it was highly complimentary to the House of Com-
mons. There were riot wanting, however, some ignorant
cavillers who attributed the candour of the noble lord to the
wry worst motives, such as are always imputed, and nearly
lways falsely, to public men. It was said that in the nice
balance of parties it was the aim of the noble Secretary
to conciliate, perhaps to cajole, the House of Commons.
But subsequent events have vindicated the character and
conduct of the noble lord, and proved he was not influenced
in. the open course he followed by any of the improper mo-
tives imputed to him. Because, when the session was over,
and during that interval in which Ministers, and especially
the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, are supposed to
have the privilege of acting with the least possible sense of
control, the same candour was exhibited by the noble lord.
'We were told at the, end of August—a most unusual period
of the year for disclosing a political secret—the policy then
pursued by the Crown. Not satisfied with that, at the end
of October we had further revelations on the same subject.
Hence it is not true that it was merely during the session,
from an improper desire unduly to influence the House of
'Commons, but from a pure love of candid behaviour on the
~part of the noble lord, that the old habits of secret diplo-
macy wore exploded, and the public admitted to the confi-
/fence of the Government. It is extraordinary, however,
that, notwithstanding all the candour of the Government
—notwithstanding all these confidences—the public are
more perplexed, more bewildered as to the real state of our
foreign relations, and the real character of the policy which
the Government have pursued, than they ever could have
been under the old system of secret diplomacy. (Hear.)
At the present moment there is no one who really knows
what is the policy of the Government with respect to our
foreign relations—the subject which now entirely engrosses
the public mind, or;what are the Fospects of the country,
with regard to any of those great questions which arise out
of them. I would, therefore, ask from the noble lord answers
to a few natural inquiries. I should like, for example, to
learn from the Government what is the real state of our
relations with France. I should like to know whether we
arse still conducting our external affairs generally by an
alliance with France, or what is equivalent to an alliance,
by that cordial and confidential understanding of which we
have heard so much. Are we doing that, or have we found
new allies ? Or are we attempting to find now allies ? And
if we have found new allies, or if we are trying to find
mew allies, I should like to know what is the principle upon
which the now alliance is to be formed. Is it to be a dis-
turbing or a tranquillising principle ? Is it to be a revolu-
tionary or a Conservative principle ? Is it, is it not, a
fact that the King of Sardinia, as we were told at the end
of August, entered into a public engagement with our own
Sovereign not to attack the dominions of the King of the
Two Sicilies? Is it, or is it not a fact that the King of
Sardinia, as we learnt at the end of October, having at-
'tacked the dominions of the King of the Two Sicilies, re-
ceived the approbation of her Majesty's Government ?
These are questions with regard to which this country na-
turally feels the liveliest interest. Was there a public
engagement between the King of Sardinia and her Majesty,
as the Secretary of State assured us at the end of August,
not to do an act which only two months afterwards that
King of Sardinia did, and received from her Majesty's
Government their thanks and congratulations? Have we
news or have we not interests in the Adriatic which it be-
comes us vigilantly to guard and watch? (Hear, hear.) Or,
on the other hand, are our interests in the Adriatic, like the
law of nations, at the bottom of the Bay of Naples ?
(Hear, hear.) Is the policy of England, as we were in-
formed at the end of August, to maintain the power and
the dominion of Austria in Venetia ? or is the policy of
England, as we learnt at the end of October, to preach the
principle of insurrection and promulgate a theory of insur-
xection ? These are subjects upon which the people of this
country naturally require information, and without giving
an opinion one way or other as to these contrary policies,
still it is extremely desirable that we should at least
be informed by the Government which policy it is
that they are pursuing, because in consequence of
the frank and candid manner in which her Majesty's Go-
vernment have conducted their affairs, and the elaborate
methods which they have adopted to prevent there being
any secrecy as to their intentions and as to their schemes,
the public mind is so mystified and bewildered that I am
not surprised that there are many who almost regret that
the old system of secret diplomacy should have been su-
perseded. Under that system, although Parliament did not
become acquainted with the conduct of a minister until the
events of which he had the control were completed, yet that
conduct, even though some might think it erroneous, was
at least consistent. There was then some sense of decorum
and some sentiment of dignity in the management of public
affairs ; some regard for the interests and feelings of our
allies, and some respect for the law of nations. (Hear.)
I just new ventured to ask the noble lord as the organ of
the Government, what were the nature of our relations with
France. It appears to me that there is no subject upon
which a clearer conception ought to prevail in Parliament
than as to our relations with a Power so considerable as
France—relations of which we hear so much, and which
can exercise so considerable an influence upon our own in-
terests and upon the afiairs of the world in general. No
man at present has a clear perception what are our relations
with the French Government. If we were to be guided by
the authentic publications that have appeared in the shape
of despatches—if we were to be influenced by the speeches
and communication which have been made by the Secre-
tary of State and by the First Minister in this house, one
might be tempted to believe that our relations with France
were not, as they are described in the gracious Speech,
friendly and satisfactory, but very unfriendly and highly
unsatisfactory. (Hear.) Now, if there be still a cordial
and confidential undertaking between the two countries, the
noble lord or some member of the Government will be able
to inform us what policy this country is pursuing with re-
spect to these important affairs of Italy ; nay more, he will
also be able to tell us what ishe policy which the French
Government is put suing with respect to them. I have
what-
aver on more than one occasion upheld
I e n eldseintho reason
isahvoe
n
se wha
is called the French alliance, an
to regret the principles which I h
endea-
voured to impress upon the house with refaevreencebeteon ofthat
subject. The most eminent statesmen have
opinion that a good, cordial, and confidential undlaenrsdtawndaisnga
between the Governments of France and Eng
combination most conducive to the peace of the world, and
therefore to the progress of civilization. They have believed
that such a combination was not only politic, but that it
was also practicable. I won't go back to remote or d
times. I won't remind the house that that was the policy
which was favoured alike by Bolingbroke and Walpole, or,
tant
at a more distant period, by such great sovereigns
as Queen
Elizabeth and Cromwell. I will confine myself to modern
times, and I say that ever since the Treaty of Vienna all
statesmen who have at all influenced the Government of
either of the two countries, all statesmen of eminence have
believed in the policy of such a combination, and also in its
Practicability; that that has been the great object of modern

politics with respect to the foreign relations of those coun-
tries. But it was quite clear that so far as France was
concerned that cordial and confidential understanding de-
pended upon two assumptions. It depended, first, upon
the assumption that France, profiting by experience, was
convinced that by the development of her internal resources
and by the multiplication of her highly gifted population
her power would be more securely increased than by any
forcible accession of territory ; and, secondly, upon the
other assumption, that that noble weakness of the French
people, that " last infirmity of noble minds," the love of
glory, might be fairly satisfied by feeling that whenever
there was any international difficulty, their opinion would
be solicited, and world greatly and in the main be decisive.
More than this, sir, it was perfectly obvious to both French
and English statesmen, that even if these assumptions
were well founded, that alliance could not subsist without
the exercise on both sides of great forbearance, and occa-
sionally the making of great sacrifices. For example, Eng-
land was not a country that sought any increase of terri-
tory. During the revolutionary war she had obtained all
those outworks which were necoesary for her maritime and
colonial empire. France, on the contrary, had lost a consi-
derable colonial empire, and was slowly constructing an-
other. France had also for a time, though but fora brief space,
been in possession of great additions to her original ten itory,
and had lost by arms what by arms she had obtained. It
was clear, therefore, that there were occasions when in the
course of international embarrassments and difficulties that
might arise Franco would be called upon to sacrifice the
hope of any increase of territory. What was the sacrifice
that England would be called upon to make ? England
world be celled upon to ir eke the concession that she
would at least not promo'n a policy which rightly or
w:ongly France believed to be adverse to her best interest.
The noble lord assumed the office of Secretary of State, as
I believe, an ardent supporter o a cordial understanding
with France. I understood the noble lord to stete at the

time he acceded to office that ho believed by so doing he
had prevented a war between England and France. Her
Majesty's late Government are still profoundlyinaware of
the circumstances to which he refers, and labour under the
impression that the relations between England and France
were cordial when they quitted office. But I mention
that to show the tone and temper with which the noble
lord entered on the duties of his position, Teking office,
however, as the warm supporter of this cordial end confi-
dential understanding with France, the noble lord—whose
sense of duty I do not question—immediately felt himself
called cn to pursue on foreign affairs a policy exactly con-
trary to that which France was favouring, and one which,
rightly or wrongly, France believed to be hostile to her
best interests. What has been the result ? The noble
lord avowed himself An advocate of the unity of Italy.
France declared that she was entirely opposed to the unity
of Italy. The policy of France and the policy of the nobl_e
lord were contrary and contradictory. The noble lord may,
perhaps, say that he preferred the policy which he pursued

favourable to referm, and that Mr. Canning, although he
opposed me in an eloqiierat reed brilliant speech in 1822, yet
at the end of that speech gave me greet hopes and encourage-
ment that if I went on I should succeed in my endeavours.
Accordingly, in the course of time, Lord Grey was placed at
the head of the Government, and, being an old Reformer,
he desired those who were aesociated with him to frame a
bill, which should be introduced into Parliament. My right
hen, friend the member for Carlisle, to-rd Durham, Lard
Bessborotigh, and myself werenamed for that purpose. We
a prepared bill, and after a great struggle we were enabled
to carry it in 1832. Am Ito lie told that it is any mortifi-
cation to me to find at the end of 30 years that the country
is so well satisfied with the bill of 1832 that it does not ask
for anything else ? (A laugh.) Surely it can be to great
humiliation to me that the amendment which I then in •
troduced into the Constitution has been PO successful, has
produced such contentment, has given so intleh fairer a re-
presentation to the great seats of industry, that at the pie-
sent moment the people thank of other objects—of foreign
politics, of commercial treaties, of church-rates, of various
questions of detail—rather than lend their support to any
plan of organic change. All I can say, therefore, is that
when any further amendment is proposed I hope it will go,
as all the bills I have had the honour to introduce have
gone, upon the principle of making a supplement to the
bill of 1832 rather than of attempting to disturb the
foundations of an arrangement which was then established
with the approbation of the people. (Hear. hear.) At
all events, for this year I certainly believe our best course
will be to give our attent:on to those various amend-
ments which her Majesty has referred to in her Speech.
They wi'l occupy most usefully the time of this House;
and if the right hon. gentleman opposite, after hav-
ing read the papers upon foreign affairs, wishes further ex-
planations from me I shall be always ready to give them,
feeling for myself that it is a great security for the people
of this country that the Government should be their organ
in foreign politics, and that it is a great security for the
Government to know that they have the support of the
people in the sentiments which they express and the prin-
ciples which they uphold. (Cheers.)
Mr. BRIGHT said he would thank his hon. friend the
member for Brighton for the course he had taken in bringing
that question to which the noble lord had so recently al-
luded before the house. His hon. friend did it in a speech
which was full of matter, and which had very favourably
impressed the house. He (Mr. Bright) was glad, too, that
that speech had drawn from the noble lord the true confes-
sion—he presumed the latest was the true confession—of
his sentiments on that question. He would, however, rather
a good deal not have hewed that speech from the noble lord,
and he felt a grief he cerld not express in being compelled
to understand the noble lord meant precisely what he said.
The noble lord reminded him of cases often exhibited in
the commercial world, where men who had borne for many
years obligations and pecuniary burdens which they were
unable to satisfy, finally called their creditors together, ac-
knowledged a state of bankruptcy, and felt a perfect happi-
ness in having got rid, in some way or other, of the obliga-
tions they had incurred. (Hear, and laughter.) That
seemed precisely the tone in which the noble lord had ad-
dressed the house to-night. He (Mr. Bright) would admit
there was some force in the statement as to the difficulties
of the noble lord's position in handling this question and
bringing it to a sucessful issue. He had seen the noble lord
shed tears on that very spot when withdrawing a Reform
Bill, when that evening he had pursued precisely the same
course with a jocularity—(a laugh)—that was absolutely
contemptuous to those who had placed him in that very
seat in order that he might advocate that very mea-
sure. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Bright) should not, because
he felt it utterly beneath the feeling he had with regard to
this question, attempt to lay hold of the noble lord, and
show him when he thought the noble lord had failed with
regard to this question in a hostile and unfriendly spirit,
because, notwithstanding what the noble lord had said that
evening, he might again find that question of use to his
political objects. But he would turn rather to the house,
and ask them what was their position with regard to this
question, for that mattered more to England, and to the
people of England, than the consistency of any particular
member of the house, however old in the public service or
eminent he might be. The noble lord had taken up that
subject as far back as the year 1819. He would not ask
the house to go back so far. He would only take thew
back to the year 1851, just ten years ago. That was a period
when the noble lord the Foreign Secretary first announced
to the house his intended departure from that principle
which he was supposed to have avowed—that the Reform
B:11 was a final measure wish regard to the representation
of the people. In 1851 the noble lord stated, in answer
to Mr. Hume, then a Oistinguished member of the house,
that he was prepared to consider the question with the view
of introducing some bill for extending the provision of the
Reform Act. In 1852 the noble lord did introduce such a
bill; but it happened then, as it constantly happened, that
there was a quarrel and an estrangement between him and the
noble lord the first minister, and that mainly, together with
other difficulties, caused the noble lord to retire from office.
Immediately afterwards came in that wonderful apparition,
at which the country was much surprised, the first Govern-
ment of Lord Derby. They did not commit themselves
upon the question at all. Lord Derby said—he (Mr. Bright)
was quoting from recollect ion' only—that he censideredit was
a part of his great duty to " stem the tide of democracy."
Whether he stemmed it or not time would show; but the go-
vernment which undertook that fearful task was overthrown,
because the house disapproved of a not very skilful budget
introduced by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli).
There then followed what was called the government o
coalition, over which presided a man of singular moderation'
singular love of justice, and singular liberality—the late
Lord Aberdeen. That Government comprised the noble
lord (Lord J. Russell) ; and he brought in a bill to extend
the right of suffrage, and to give an amended representation
to the people. That bill was not withdrawn from any doubt
being entertained by the house as to its principles or details,
but because two noble lords, at present seated together on
that bench, had succeeded with their colleagues in involving
the country in a war with Russia, and it was though
better, during the excitement of that contest, not to proceed
with a reform bill, and it was accordingly withdrawn. Well,
by and bye the Government of Lord Aberdeen was over-
thrown, and was followed by that of the noble lord now at
the head of the administration ; and not long after the ter-
mination of the Russ!an war, the noble lord, in reply, he
(Mr. Bright) believed, to his hon. friend the member for
Finsbury, admitted that the time was come for amending
the representation of the people, and he promised that in
the succeeding session the Government would be prepared
to introduce a bill. But in that succeeding session there
happened something, as frequently did happen, which was
not expected in the preceding session. In the year 1858,
almost immediately after the house met, the noble lord made
a stumble in a matter connected with the French Govern-
ment, and on a motion brought for ward byhis (Mr. Bright's)
right hon. friend the member for Ashton, the noble lard
was ejected from office. The house did not complain that
the noble lord did not bring in a bill, because no sufficient
time had been allowed for the purpose ; but when the
hon. member for Finsbury put the question whether the
the measure had been considered, and a bill prepared, it
came out at last, as the noble lord was frank enough to
say, that no bill was ready to be laid upon the table. So far
the noble lord did not seem quite to have acted up to his
promise. Then came the second apparition of Lord Derby's
Government. Well, so convinced were Lord Derby and
the right hon. gentleman of the necessity of the measure,
that they announced their intention, in the next session, to
bring in a bill to amend the representation of the people.
Assuming that altering was amending they did so ; and
the right hon. gentleman taunted the noble lord with the
small number of supporters his bill received ; whereas no-
body upon his (Mr. Disraeli's) side of the house was in
favour of his measure. (Hear, hear.) It passed to a second
reading, no doubt, but had it gone further the right hon.
gentleman would have gone out into the lobby with his own
official supporters only. It was a bill which altered the
constituency and created confusion, but it did not mate-
rially extend the franchise. The right hon. gentleman
said, indeed, that it would add 500,000 new borough elec-
tors to the list. That was a monstrous exaggeration; but
the system of government which was to stem the tide of
democracy, on its second accession to office, was prepared,
according to its awn showing, to introduce into the elec-
toral body twice the number proposed by the bill of the
noble lord. So that he (Mr. Bright) must say the second
Government of Lord Derby must in the eyes of hon. gentle-
men opposite have been something far worse than the first.
(Laughter.) There was this, however, to be said about
Lord Derby's Government, that they had prepared their
Reform Bill; and when the House of Commons rejected it
on the special invitation of the noble lard the member for
the City of London, the Government of Lord Derby did
one of the two things, which, according to constitutional
practice, they were enabled to do ; they did not resign,
which they were not bound to do, but they advised the
Queen to dissolve Parliament, and Parliament was dis-
solved. They appealed to the one million electors of the
United Kingdom—that million whose votes were distri-
buted and manipulated in such a curious and antique fashion
that their real opinions could not be taken at all. HQ
had been told that in the new united kingdom
of Italy a representative system was to be este.blisTheelp
under which one member was to be returned foo
50,000 inhabitants, and under which there vrooulnd rae
ob;PounrYr
great constituencies like the West lading:r,oorr Binning-
! metropolitan districts, or Liverpool,
ham, to be neutralised by the it
encies consisting of some handl
le ward in those great
altogether would not form e
non, gentleman opposite and
populations. He said the.righbat
was
es7f;inala:atlpviees ofw hcoo ns
takest it u-
the honourable thing
his chief, Lord Derby,
adrirlia7mheenirt in
foorrame r
Btioll.seeThweheeotuhner.
—thethe
youdnitsrysolwveoduldthae,uPFP° etion was brought forward, and
thein house that the question of re-
: or not, the house was against the Govern-
form was at issue
wtrhyedtihdernottt
ldvoassoielr b-y
tey resigned office, and then the noble lord the
member forth City of London was once more a member ,
•
the Cabinet, and the noble lord themember for Tiverton
-
the chief. Well, the reform question was considered, and
there were public and private pledges given of the most
„pecit character—(hear)— to members of this house on
the subject. The Government were not called upon during
that session of Parliament to introduce a bill, but the noble
lord the member for London very fairly described what
would be character of the measure which he would pro-
pose. The noble lord had, previously, on the very night
the Government of Lord Der-by announced a dissolution,
described the principle of his measure, and consequently it
was left to the whole electoral body to discuss, hint the re-
sult was that after the returns were made the right hon.
gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) and his friends were sent to the
other side of the house, and the noble lords were restored
to the Ministerial bench. It could not be said that he (Mr
Bright) had treated the noble lord unfairly. He did not
condemn the bill of last session, but he told the house that
it merely touched the fringe of the queation as to the dis-
position of seats. So far as he could he spoke in favour

of the bill, and his opinion was that it would be a great
improvement on the bill of Lord Derby's Goa 'ernment,
because it would enable the best part of the
working classes to raise themselves to that line which
the noble lord had laid down. (Hear, hear.) Wen,
the noble lord brought in his bill, and he was not going to
blame the noble lord for what he did last session, because
he knew they could not get twenty waggons all at once
through Temple-bar, but the noble lord might have shown
a stronger disposition to pass the bill. The noble lord had
complained that two members on his side of the house—the
hon. member for Salford and the hon. member for Edin-
burgh—had spoken against his bill. He (Mr. Bright) would
say nothing about the hon. member for Salford, except that
it was generally understood in his borough that he was an
enthusiaslic supporter of the bill which the noble lord said
he spoke against. The hon. member for Edinburgh had
told his constituents that he was in favour of a £6 franchise.
However, the hon. member when he was down with his
constituents the other day had passed under an unpleasant
cross-examination, andthat, at a meeting called by his own
ft lends, was a very strong proof that his supporters did not
approve of the course which he took last year. The noble
lord the Prime Minister spoke on the second reading of the
bill last year, and on both sides of Ithe house there was a
belief that the noble lord was not in favour of Parliamen-
tary reform, and in fact that he and his colleagues would
not mind if the bill introduced in the name of the govern-
ment should not pass the house. There was no apprehen-
sion or pain felt at the course the house might te KC with
regard to it. (Hear, hear.) He had no doubt that the
idea which prevailed led to a great deal of the opposition—
persistett and irritating—which the bill encountered.
(Hear, hear.) But what was the fate of the Lill after all ?
He would appeal to all upon this point, that noi,,ody moved
anything in opposition to it.
An IiON. MEMBErt on the Opposition side of the
house—Yes. The hon. member for Salford did.
Mr. BRIGHT—No, he had an amendment on the paper,
but he ran away from it just as your man did from hiSe
(Laughter.) Well, the answer to all these questions must
be that the representation of the people is very imperfect,
and that with regard to many boroughs and counties it was
purely a sham. The house knew that six millions of men
were unrepresented, and amongst those who were in that
position he would find 500 who would be able to debate
every question which came before the house with just as
much ability and soundness of argument as they did. The
nole'..e lord said he wrote to the King of Neples, and advised
him to do certain things, but he did not do them, and he was
now shut up in the fortress of Gaeta. It did not follow that
the same thing should happen in England, but the same
feelings existed in the minds of all people, and the noble
lord might some day receive a despatch from a continental
sovereign containing advice that he should pursue a diffe-,
rent course. (Laughter.) He would appeal to the house,
and ask whether it would be right that the representation
of the people should be amended some time, or would it not
be right ? (Hear.) If some time, would it not be better to do
it now than as it was done in 1832, and as it would be done
aeainil the house persisted in the course they were now
taking? (Hear.) It had been declared by the noble lord the
member for London as the leader of the Government at one
time—by Lord Aberdeen, the leader of the Government,
which comprised many great statesmen, at another—by
Lord Derby, the chief of another Government, at another
time—and by Lord Palmerston, the longest of all in the
service of the country, at another time—that the represen-
tation of the people was so far imperfect that it was desir-
able it should be amended, and he would ask the house
whether the small questions of Savoy and Nice, and ques-
tions still smaller than those, should interfere with this vast
and more important question of the reform of the represen-
tation of the people. (Heat.) What did the House of Com-
mons think of the people of England, and what would the
people think of the House of Commons? (Hear, hear.)
The house had already passed a resolution in favour of
the working classes being enfranchised to the extent of
120,000 of these classes—(hear, hear)—and now nothing
more was to be done. He had stated at Leeds that at
Rochdale there were undertakings representing a capital of
£400,000, managed by four committees of eleven each, and
of all the working men on those committees only two were
possessed of the franchise. He knew many of those men
and their worth, and one of them, in the employ of the firm
in which he was a partner, had the care of a steam engine,
and was a man of great intelligence and economy, and as
respectable as any man he saw before or around him in
that house. That man had succeeded in obtaining a vote
for the county. Now those 6,000,000 men would not
always be contented to be left out of the representation,
and he should despise his countrymen if he thought the
course taken by the Government was a safe one and could
be maintained. (Hear, hear.) There was nobody could
doubt for a moment that the class of persons which the
noble lord proposed last year should have the franchise
were equal in position and respectability to the £lO voters
admitted in 1832. The last thirty years had produced *
large improvement in the character and intelligence of the
people of England. He did not speak of the agricultural
labourers, but he did speak of artisans of Lancashire and
Yorkshire ; but he spoke not more for them than for the
house, for if it were good that they should be represented
it could not be good for the house that they should be ex-
cluded from the franchise. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord,
with a jocularity which he disliked, said nobody cared
much about reform ; but he would give the house a warn-
ing, which he was not sure the noble lord had given him-
self, that there would not always be periods of tranquillity
and acquiescence in the old system of things. Prior
to 1831 the House of Commons was warned, and little
notice was taken, and what was the consequence ? Why,
they all ran for their lives, and conceive the danger they
ran, for the country was within 24 hours of a revolution
which would have given the people more than they got.
(Hear, hear.) The other House of Parliament was in
terror, and had to kiss the dust before those people of
whom they had been speaking with contempt ; and when
the Monarch threatened to exercise his prerogative, a
certain party absented themselves from the house,
while the other side passed the bill. (Hear.) He believel
it was generally considered that this question must be set-
tled. The time was favourable, for there would be nothing
before the house but the Attorney General's Bankruptcy.
Bill, and one or two other measures, and if the govern-
ment wore not going to interfere with the Italian strife,
surely this was the sessiws for the introduction of a short,
moderate, and useful Reform measure, and it ought to tre
presented to the house. (Hear, hear.) And if the noble
lord at the head of the government hai said that it would
be the bill of the session, and given the house to understand
that its rejection would be followed by a change in the
government or a dissolution of parliament—as the case
of Lord Derby's government—it would hive passed the
house. The Treble lord said it required a strong tide to
carry it over the bar of the house of Lords; but there
were men in that house who were not wholly oblivious to
what passed around them, and he did not believe such a
measure would have been treated with contempt and ig-
nominy by the other house. He had very god I reasons
for thinking that if such a bill had passed the Commons,
the other house would not have renr-,3d it their sanction.
The speech of the noble lord had placed this question in a
very different position, and, so far at least, those members
who were instrumental in placing the government in office
were absolved from any supposed obligation which consi-
dered them as supporters of the noble lord. (Hear, hear.)
He grieved at this because he was most anxious that at
least they should not have a change of government or a
dissolution every two years, but that the government
should remain in office a longer period. The noble lord
had now repudiated all he had said before, and not with
sorrow, but with satisfaction. (Hear, hear.) The noble
lord obtained a dissolution of parliament, and a majority
in favour of the proposition which he put forward and
brought before the house, and there was no division upon
his bill last year, and yet he came down to the house
at the opening of this session—in which there would be
almost nothing to do—and refused to do that for which
the Governmet had been placed on the Treasury benches.
(Hear, hear.) He (the hon. member) was content, like the
noble lord, to wait till the time came when this measure
would receive what he must call a more honest and states-
man like attention from the house, He believed that the
time was not distant when the country would insist that
something should be done with regard to it. The working
classes were not like the members of that house, who had
time to spare in the morning and in the evening, and at a
good many intervals during the day. They had to work
from six in the morning till six in the evening and
sometimes later. They had no time, except when they
were out of work or when they were in great distress,
to make great political demonstrations. The million
who had votes had declared themselves in favour of re-
forming the franchise; but the majority that there was
amongst that million was as nothing compared with the
majority there would be amongst the remaining
six-sevenths of the nation who at present had no votes.
And how were these six-sevenths to express their opinion ?
Parliament would not call a convention, and allow them to
decide whether it should deal with the question of reform.
They would not let the country declare itself, but they con-
fined the vote to a small portion of the community, whom
they hecuspocussed until that vote was of no value to them.
Did they want the public wish to be expressed by enormous
meetings ? The people had no other means of expressing
their opinions ; and if they met in great excitement, those
meetings must necessarily be often tumultuous. If they
could have the hon. member for Glasgow come there and
say "Mr. Speaker, I have just left 100,000 men meeting on
Glasgow-green, and this is the resolution which they passed"
—if they could have the hon. members for Manchester end
Leeds and his hon. colleague and himself coming there.and
telling the same story, their difficulties would all vani°J._'2 _as
they had fled 30 years ago. Ministers, who wprlen°lll7.
calm and so conservative, would, especially 1 ,n
, the other
brought them to the Government. bench!w asn. 1832 ; a bill
house would become as obsequious as
pened to sit on the Opposition side, rise hs; waveytill it
it
liwile:sar„ hear.) He (the
would be passed, perhaps more extene ye than many of the
to see become law,
members opposite
advanced Liberal pa ty would no
wh.vech(
and dprcehsaneutgedsremadigelt
tteakespeaplakee
the house wise counsVhich,
f.
shongh they might be
stecioednyrthetisotn thheat
whesswaws giarslgs
rofess to have the gift of prophesy
distant--and he gia p
evnertneless dangers that were ahead,
bon.t
en member)
ag a inst
as to tiine--weree
.fdealtngeanr:hterre,
had overtaken the statesmen of every
usterthitshqeuseestitohinnhagsd bienenvisueweh.
and
The conductthem run the risk of losing, first, their own
as to make the respect f the se
oneer, end theno country. When that
gush t have Thee proposeddsehurg
e thisof
their essi oana if
:::otncehrap pdened in this kingdom a more unhappy and a
thawth°—tilhead house not
more unpleasant crisis would have come than could possibly
House of Commons, with great satisfac-
tiony,
arrive as the result of se judicious and moderate a raeasitre
obaveseetniranhecolellinort
to the people, might in his opinion andtash
etyh he a
suchad
have passed.
(Hear, hear.)
The house then divided—
For the amendment . 46
Against it .. ........
Majority --53
The result was received wi •th some cheers from the sup.
porters of the motion.
The address was then agreed to, and a committee was
appointed to draw it up.
The house adjourned at five minutes to ten.
of

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