The Sun.
London, England, 1861-04-20 00:00:00

irelieved from occupying that position which they occupied
at the late election for the borough of Tiverton. The ques-
tion. I wish to put is to ask the First Lord of the Treasury
if it be true that at the recent election for Tiverton he was
escorted to the hustings by the Tiverton Volunteer Rifles,
and if it is the intention of the Government to sanction the
attendance of volunteers with their arms at elections ?
Lord PALMERSTON, who on rising was received with
cheers, said—l am sure, sir, I have no ground of complaint
nor have the Tiverton volunteers any reason to complain of
the manner in which the right hon. and gallant gentleman
has asked this question. (Hear.) I quite admit that as a
general principle it is quite improper that armed bodies
should participate in elections. I do certainly remember
that on the occasion of an election for Sligo some few years
ago the police were put in confinement, the militia were or.
dered:out of the town, and the regular troops were brought
in merely to insure the freedom of election. ( Laughter.)
That was an exceptional case. The statement which the
hon. and gallant officer has made is quite true. The
fact is, that when I was going from the hotel to the
court-house I found that the Tiverton Volunteers, who are
a fine body of men—and it would do the hon. and gallant
gentleman's soldier-heart good to see them, both on account
of the fineness of the men, their precision of step and accu-
rate movements, wished to accompany me to the court-
house with their band; and I really thought that as there
was no contest and no probability of one, it would be a piece
of political prudery on my part to iefuse, and I therefore
accepted the honour which they proposed to do me. (Hear,
and laughter.) Now as to intimidation, the right hon. and
gallant gentleman says that even Mr. Rowcliffe might be a
candidate, although as far as he knows he was not likely to
be intimidated. But I say, notwithstanding our occasional
sparring matches, he is a free-born Briton—
" Si fractus illabatur orbis
Impavidum ferient ruinm,"
—(cheers)—and that he was the last man to be intimidated
by the Tiverton Volunteers. Well, that was the case. I
should state, however, that although the volunteers marched
with me to the court-house, they went and deposited their
arms in the usual place, and appeared at the election, though
in uniform, as part of the unarmed population of the town.
After the election they marched with me back to the hotel,
and in the evening when I left the town they insisted on
accompanying me on the first stage—(a laugh)—and while
I was waiting for the train at the Tiverton Junction station,
they performed admirably several military movements, and
gave me two volleys. (Laughter.) With reference to the
last question of the right hon. and gallant gentleman, I
believe it is the intention of Lord Herbert to send a circular
letter to the lords .lieutenant of counties, stating that it is
not advisable that the volunteers should take part in any
way in elections. (Cheers.)
SALES OF LAND IN NEW ZEALAND.

Mr. HOPE wished to ask the Under-Secretary of State
for the Colonies whether it was intended to endeavour to
institute a tribunal in New Zealand to decide upon conflict-
ing claims of natives in cases of proposed sales of land by
them to the Government.
Mr. C. FORTESCUE said there was no native tribunal
in New Zealand, and no English court which took cogni-
sance of those transactions. It was true there were Eng-
lish courts of law in New Zealand, but they found them-
selves incompetent to take notice of those sales of land. The
practice therefore had been that the Government acted by
direct negotiations with the native owners, proceeding in
each case by the prevailing custom of each particular dis •
trict. It was a course which had been attended with very
great success, and by it a very considerable amount of
native land had been secured for the purposes of the colo •
nists, without leading to any serious difficulty, until those
unfortunate circumstances occurred which had lately been
taking place. It was a course which had been justified both
by the letter and the spirit of the treaty of Waitangi, and
also by the necessity of the case. The fact was, there did
not exist any such native titles as admitted of being treated
by any uniform or well-defined code of law. The condition
of the native people had presented an insurmountable ob-
stacle to the establishment or the working of any court of
justice to decide upon their land claims. The natives of
New Zealand were to a great extent merely nominal sub-
jects of the Crown, and in many districts they had remained
practically independent. So much so that the small por-
tion of them who were unfortunately engaged in hostilities
against her Majesty's troops could not fairly be said to be
in the position of rebels. (Hear, hear.) He would admit
that for some years past it had been strongly felt both by
the Government of New Zealand and by the Government
at home that the existing system was unsatisfactory ; but
the difficulties which had arisen were not till lately difficul-
ties between the Government as purchasers and the natives
as sellers. It had been felt, however, that the communis-
tic tenure of the land—for it was always held by comnm.-
nities—was extremely detrimental to the improvement of
the natives. It led to indolence and demoralisation of
every kind ; and it was, therefore, most desirable to in-
troduce a better system. In 1858 a bill was sent home by
the Colonial Government, called " The Native Territorial
Rights Act ;" but after mature deliberation the Govern-
ment of the day—in which the right honourable baronet
the member for Hertfordshire (Sir E. B. Lytton) was Secre-
tary of State for the Colonies—decided that they could not
give it their assent. Last year a bill, with similar objects,
was brought in by the noble duke (the Duke of Newcastle) ;
but the House of Commons was not disposed to entertain
that measure. Within the last month a third bill had been
received by her Majesty's Government from the legislature
of New Zealand for the purpose of creating native titles,
similar to those that would have been created under the bill
of last session. The object of that measure was to enable
the Governor by and with the advice and consent of gentle-
men of the highest authority in New Zealand to examine
claims, to grant certificates of titles, and to induce the na-
tives if possible to submit their disputes to the arbitration
of some regular tribunal. At the same time he must can-
didly say he did not believe that any such tribunal would
have sufficed to prevent the recent unfortunate occurrences.
The entire conviction of the Governor throughout the
whole transaction had been that William King never made
any claim of any sort to the land that would have been ad-
mitted by any authority, whether by commissioners, or by
a land court, or by any other legal authority. Their convic-
tion was that this chief, King, had not intended to make
any such claim. If he had, it would have been investigated
as all such claims had invariably been. It was clear to the
government that the position which King had assumed was
that of a native potentate who disputed the sovereign claims
of the British crown. The authority of the Government
over the colony was very limited. The power of internal
regulation and of taxation had been given up to the local
legislature ; and there remained little to the crown beyond
the difficult and invidious task of extinguishing native
rights, and handing over the land so obtained as waste
land, to be disposed of by the local government. No doubt
it would be a great gain if means could be devised of pre-
venting for the future the bloody disputes which occurred
from time to time between the native owners and those
unfortunate differences which they had lately had with the
Government. If, however, this war should teach them that
their wisdom lay in submitting themselves absolutely to
the Queen's authority, he had no doubt that it would in the
end prove to be of the greatest benefit to the natives them-
selves. (Hear, hear.)
Lord R. CECIL thought the Under Secretary of
State (Mr. Fortescue) had misunderstood the drift of his
hon. friend's question, namely, the institution of a com •
potent tribunal in New Zealand to decide upon the con-
flicting claims of natives where land was proposed to be
sold to the Government. He (Lord R. Cecil) contended
that the course pursued by the Government in recent
cases was of such a character as to prevent the natives
having confidence in the Government. What was wanted
was the establishment of a Court of Arbitration, in which
the natives could repose confidence, (Hear, hear.)

THE SPANISH PROTESTANTS.
Sir R. PEEL was anxious not to let the evening pass
without making some remarks upon the statement which
the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) had made with reference to
the communications that he had received from the Spanish
government. He did not know whether he had accurately
gathered what the noble lord said, but if he had, he felt
sure that the noble lord had rather spoken what had been
put into his mouth by interested persons than given ex-
pression to his own sentiments.

Lord J. RUSSELL—I gave no opinion at all; I merely
stated facts.

Sir R. PEEL—That made it a great deal worse. (A
laugh.) There were men in Spain who were persecuted
solely on the ground of their religious faith. He (Sir R.
Peel) had himself presented petitions, very numerously
signed, from different parts of the country, urging upon
her Majesty's government to take some steps by the exercise
of their influence to procure the release of those men who
were thus suffering persecution. (Hear.) The noble lord
stated on a former occasion that he declined to take that