The Sun.
London, England, 1857-02-04 00:00:00

ante, that it was no matter whather Persia bad possession of
it or not ? But of such great importance was Herat iu the
opinion of the Government of which the right non. gentleman
was a member, that Lord Malmesbury felt it to be hts duty
to talk seriously on the subject to the Persian Minister, and
the Persian Minister gave him his solemn assurance that the
Persian Government would not attempt the annexation of
Herat to . the Persian dominions ; and Lord • Malmesbury
actually said that be would have nothing to do with him
unless the idea of annexation of Herat was revoked. , (Hear,
hear.) Well, it was stipulated that Herat should not be an-
nexed; and yet after that assurance, the Persian Government
have now taken and are anxious to annex it. The right hon
gentleman has said that I am the cleverest fellow in the
world in creating disturbances, and the most successful in
getting out of them; but was not the one counterpoised and
made up for by the other? And was it not better to have a
man like him, who, if he created disturbances, had the happy
knack of getting out of them ? (Hear, hear, laughter, and
cheers.) The right hon. gentleman says that it was the duty
of the Government to call Parliament together ou receipt of
the information'of the taking of Bashire. I admit that it is
the duty. of Government to *all Parliament together on any
emergency ; but to call Parliament together because, of the
fall of Bushire would have been nothing short of burlesque.
(Laughter.) Every government ought to maintain the
honour and interests of the country, and if they did that
successfully, and put an end to questions of difficulty with
foreign governments, they were entitled to the approbation
of the country. The -right hon. member for the University
of Oxford spoke of what he said was the reckless character
of the Government, and spoke of their making ten diffi-
culties where others made but one. If that was so, and
he would not discuss the question with so gloat a master of
language, but did he forget that the most important—not
difficult—war in which they had recently been engaged,
was brought on by a Government which he must re-
member—(hear, hear)—for he held the purse-strings in
his hand, and had greater power and authority to put
a stop to any proceeding which ought not to be embarked in
than any member of that Government. The right hon. gen-
tleman then felt es every man did when in office; and cast-
ing aside all the refinements in which he was now embarked,
he looked only to the honour and interests of the country,
and although great was the stake, he manfully threw in his
lot with the others. Then having adopted that course in
office, he was not entitled now , out of office to take this
course on minor matters. With regard to his observations
as to the right of the Crown to cede the island of Ruatan
without the consent of Parliament, he was in error as to the
distinction he had drawn between colonisation and annexa-
tion ; at any rate Ministers were responsible. However, the
fact was, the treaty was not yet finally concluded, nor could
be until it received the approbation of the Senate of the
United States, and until then it did not become binding, and
therefore be could not yet lay the papers on the table of the
house. Ho agreed as to what had been laid down with re-
spect to the principles which the Government ought to adopt
as to their income and expenditure. He thought the first
thing was to ascertain the principle they sbould adopt, then
the amount of the army and navy of the country, and thou
find the necessary means for their support. Therefore the
discussion of any particular tax was premature until the
House of Commons had determined what was to be the ex-
penditure of the country. It was the first time he had heard
an elaborate discussion on the estimates before they were
laid on the table of the house. But the right bon. gentleman
had entirely assumed the figure. His right hon. friend had-
said you must go 'by figures. Why, then, ho said wait tillyou°
get the figures? (A laugh.) That would be found the best
course in the long ran. His right hon. friend said they must
not keep a large large army. He agreed in that opinion. It
would be a mistake to have an enormous imilitary establish-
ment, inconsistent with the wants of the country. But the
house must recollect that they had possessions abroad, in
which certain garrisons must be kept, and that many of these
places beicg countries of large extent, and thinly populated,
it would be difficult on an emergency to obtain a volun-
teer force. They, therefore, required a certain amount of
military force, and, as that force could not be kept perma-
nently in one place, there must be always regiments on their
passage. They must bear in mind that, although he hoped
peace might continue, it was not dependent upon themselves,
but upon the conduct of other powers, and they might de-
pend upon it that for a country great and rich to leave itself
without defences would not be the best course in the long
run. They had now experience as to the force they should
maintain. They should have scientific men, and to learn things
which could not be learned atone°. That was more important
than to raise large bodies of men. They should also recollect
that some"other nations, great and powerful as themselves,
were improving their military establishments, and building
steam vessels to supersede sailing ships. They must not be
behind, and the expense of building and of maintaining those
vessels was one-third more than the expense of sailing vessels.
He trusted the house would defer discussion on the estimates
till they were before them. They could have no interest in
proposing estimates greater than necessary, or establishments
greater than necessary. There was on the contrary every
temptation to propose proper establishments. But, on the
other hand, a responsible government had duties to perform,
which was essential for the safety and interest of the country,
and it was their duty to propose to Parliament measures such
as they thought would be beat calculated to support the inte-
rest and honour of the country. He had, in conclusion, only
to regret that the right hon. gentleman opposite (Ur. Disraeli)
had picked up so many unfounded reports amongst the gossip
of Paris, which might at once have been refuted if he had
made application in the proper quarter. The noble lord re.
Burned his seat amidst applause.

➢lr. H. BAILLIE regretted that the noble lord (Lord Pal-
merston) had set on foot a great military expedition without
having condescended to consult Parliament.

Lord J. RUSSELL said he regretted ho had no opportunity
of addressing the house before the noble lord (Lord Palmer-
ston), although the noble lord had given upon many points ex-
planations fall and explicit. He would, however, state to the
house bis impression upon some of the most important topics
touched upon in the paragraphs of her Majesty's speech.
With regard to the course which was pursued after the signa-
ture of the treaty of Paris on the 30th of March, certain arti-
cles were added to the treaty whica it was faun 1 necessary to
reconsider and amend. That wasnot the usual course to adopt
on the termination of a great war. The course which had
been usual was this, that the belligoroats hail a;rool on. the
, preliminaries of peace, and had afterwards embodied any sub-
sequent alterations in a definite treaty of peace, which had
received the signature of the belligerents. The question wo
raised with regard to Bolgracl, in which tho Russians had, no
hdonbt, the better of the treaty on their side, and in which we
the spirit and policy of it on ours, was one of vital im-
portance ; but though it appeared to him quite extraordinary
that though so many months had been thus employed in dis-
cussion, the conclusion which would have appeared natural
to mon of common sense engaged in other affairs was, thetas
the approach to the Danube was expressly forbidden to Rus-
sia by an article of the treaty, Bolgrad should be allowed to
remain to Moldavia, and Rnssia should have compensation for
surrendering it. Certainly the extraordinary part of this dis-
cussion had been that, in the course of it, an uncommon
amount of asperity had been developed, that it had been
thought necessary to arouse debate almost to fever pitch, and
that there should be so much difference of opinion on a point
in itself so simple, and of which the solution appeared so easy.
He could not but think that the recommendation contained
in his speech at the close of last session, that all asperity
should cease with the combat, was singularly applicable, and
oug' it now at length to be acted on, and that Russia should no
longer be referred to as if she was a power with whom we were
actually at war, her objects having been defeated, while our
own had been attained. His noble friend had partly
explained
the allegations made by theright hon. gentleman opposite. lie
had listened to them with some surprise as they did not resemble
anything he had before heard on the subject of Switzerland.
The despatch of Lord Cowley was a cautious despatch,properely
not committing the King of Prussia to renounce his pretended
rights on Switzerland, but at the same time expressing
that
goodwill towards Switzerland which it was right for this
country to do. They could not expect the Kiug of Prussia,
having put forward these claims, to surrender them abso-
lutely; and the Swiss Government were therefore in the
position that insurgents in Neuchatel might rise against the
de facto, and, as he believed, the de jure Government, when
the King of Prussia might again interfere on their behalf,
and so bring the whole question up again. With respect to
Persia, he by no means agreed with those who look upon our
present hostilities as unimportant, being merely
an expedition
to Bushiro. By all accounts which ho had heard of the place,
unhealthy he believed it to be perfectly
after the month of
April, yet a second expedition was now on its way there. If
they were going to fight Persia alone, it was a country so
disorganised and reduced that they were likely to destroy its
independence; but if they were going to fight Persia, sup-
ported by Russia, they had a formidable contest before them,
and ono most dangerous to our Indian empire, tending as it
did to bring our Indian frontiers and those of Russia into
proximity4lle could not believe that any British statesman
would endanger the present comparative vulnerability of our
Indian empire, of which ho had heard the late Lord Hardiuge
say, that. with its vast frontier there were but two or three
manner
as
for
Russia
points at which it was assailable. To prosecute such a war
would be to give up a good position to the enemy, and to
Pon to accomplish that
take his weak one in exchange. lie thought it desirable that
playing
the city of Herat should not be annexed to Persia, but surely
a mightct y r
nagreed
against ins behind the scenes, he believed that Russian states-
men were more anxious to husband the resources of their
osobmjeect inpropositiona satisfactory
country after the severe trial it had passed through. With
regard to another subject—Central America—he was very glad
to find that there was no longer any risk of our being involved
in a struggle with the great Republic of the United States on
account of these central tribes and states, not one of which
was worth the quarrel. He came now, however, to another
subject, viz., Italy, as to which he would at once state to
the right hon. gentleman opposite that he-was by no means
satisfied with the statement of the noble lord, The King of
Naples was sure not to be impressed by the course which had
been taken. The Governments of Great Britain and France
might have obt.lined the concurrence of Austria, and the
three conjointly would have formed a strong moral power to
act on Naples. The course which Lord Clarendon pursued,
however, was that of saying that there were cases in which it
was not only right, but it was the duty of this country to in-
terfere, and the interference should have, been carried out in
practice. If the King of Naples had been informed that
terms had been agreed upon between France and England, he
would probably have at once assented to them; but 'under the
course pursued towards him his honour had actually been
enlisted in a refusal, for whioh he had obtained the respect of
some who never had respected him before. Concurrently
with this, England had been lowered in the eyes of Europe,
and the friends of constitutional Government mourned, while
those of despotism and revolution rejoiced. Men of the
highest character, and most patriotic intentions, had
languished for years in the dungeons of Naples; yet bad as
the King of Naples was there were other Governments in Italy
that utterly failed to do their duty to their subjects, and whose
principal towns were garrisoned with foreign troops. In the
Government of the Pope there was not the excuse there was
in Naples, that the people submitted to the Government.
The Government was carried on by foreign occupation, and all
with whore ho had spoken declared that that state of things
would last as long as the foreign occupation. There was a
tribunal sitting at Bologna, which city for more than eight
years had been in a state of siege. The paper he had on this
subject he might communicate to the house on a future oc-
casion, but he would now state that besides the military
tribunals in that city, there was a criminal court of justice of
which he had these particulars. For some years past there
had been a °instant succession of assassinations, robberies,
thefts, housebreakings, prevalent in the city and country of
Bologna, that 100 gene d'armes were sent out under the
command of a lieutenant, who took up a great number
of persons charged with various crimes, from the year
1846 to 1855. No doubt the offences were committed,
but when they came to deal with individuals, with respect
to ten of them, there was no other evidence against them
than was extorted by torture and violence. Was it possible
that we should go on for eight, ten; or twelve years, allow-
ing foreign troops to occupy that country, without making
any remonstrance on the subject? He could not believe that
if he spoke to the French Government, and, in the next
place, remonstrated with Austria, that the evils complained
of would continue. There could be no doubt of the corrupt
character of the Government at Rome, and that its neglect of
the welfare of its subjects would continue during the exist-
ence of the foreign occupation; but if a day was fixed—say
six months after the evacuation of Moldavia and Wallachia
—that the occupation of Italy by the Austrian troops should
cease, there would then be some chance of having an inde-
pendent and goad Government in, that country. The people