The Sun.
London, England, 1861-05-11 00:00:00

present moment that the resolutions should be agreed to.
(Hear, hear.) There was no doubt that the occupation of
Syria by foreign troops was an anomaly, and was a dan-
ger to the independence of the Turkish empire. The occu-
pation by French troops was assented to by all the Powers
who were parties to the arrangement of occupyirg Syria;
but the Government of this country had no doubt whatever
that the occupation of Syria by the French treeps would
terminate, as had been arranged, on the sth of June. (Hear
hear.) He thought the papers which had been presented
very plainly showed that the Maronites originally com-
menced the unfortunate events which they deplored, and
that the Druses eagerly entered into the contest. The Turks
were also he thought greatly to blame, but he thought the
Turkish Government had rendered every reparation in their
power by the vigorous efforts they had made to punish the
offenders. He did not however see that there would be any
advantage in their lordships expressing any opinion at pre-
sent on the subject. His noble friend had very properly
pointed out the great importance of the subject, but it might
have been said at any time within the last century that the
Turkishoertmepire
sense,w because great danger. It was always in dan-
gercause it was an empire composed of
varied races, with differing languages, creeds, and habits,
and it had powerful neighbours always disposed to press
upon it, so that it was exposed both to external and internal
pressure and disturbing causes. But he thought we were
very much disposed to exaggerate the danger. (Hear, hear.)
The reports laid on the table from the various British con-
suls gave a picture of the state of the Turkish empire some-
what different to those which were usually drawn. All

these reports concurred in stating that in many provinces
great improvement was visible, and in pointing out that it
was not the laws of Turkey which were defective, so much
as the administration. The noble lord who had been alibis
life so earnest in urging reforms upon the Porte, had
scarcely given it credit for the efforts made to give effect to
these reforms. In many parts of Turkey the laws were
equitable and enlightened, but unfortunately the admini-
stration was corrupt and irregular. The noble lord had
said for this we must seek a remedy, but he (Lord Wode-
house) could not see any other course open to us than that
we had already pursued, viz., to advise the Porte in a
friendly spirit as to the course to be pursued withrespect to
the management of the finances of the empire. Her Majes-
ty's Government had recently sent two gentlemen 0 Con-
stantinople, possessed of great experience and knvwlodgoin
financial affairs, to advise with the Turkish Government,
and if tho Government would really listen to them, act upon
the advice, and avail themselves of the services of these two
gentlemen, the finances would be soon got into a regular
state, or at least very great improvements would be made.
His noble friend bad not touched upon the effect of the
changes to be made in the government of Syria, so much as
he might have done.• But in fact there were a great many
schemes under consideration, and that of itself implied
great difference of opinion. Upon that point, as upon every
other, he could only say that it was the object of her Ma-
jesty's Government not to weaken that of Turkey in any
way. As to the French occupation of Syria, the Govern-
ment had no reason to suppose that it would be prolonged
beyond the appointed time, and he could assure his noble
friend that the advice given by the Government to the
Porte, was in all respects such as he himself would ap-
prove of.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said the question
really was, what were our engagements to Turkey, and
how far were we to be dragged into war without making
efforts to improve the internal condition of the empire? If
the object of the resolutions were simply to urge the with-
drawal of the French troops he could not assent to them,
because he believed the French Government were deter-
mined to carry out the arrangement. But the resolutions
referfed to the circumstances under which these troops were
sent there, and the interference of other powers. It was
quite clear from the papers before the house that such in-
terference was urgently called for, and he thought therefore
that the house would be justified in adopting the resolutions.
His noble friend who had just sat down had said there were
symptoms of improvement in Turkey, and that the state of
the Turkish army was owing to local and financial causes.
That was just what his noble friend said in his resolutions,
and showed the necessity for adopting resolutions which at
all events if not adopted he was glad to see upon the jour-
nals of their lordships' house. If governors of provinces
only kept an army upon paper, how was it possible to main-
tain internal tranquillity, or repress disturbances. Our en-
gagements to Turkey had already frequently led to a great
expenditure of blood and treasure on our part, and it would
bo the height of folly for us not to look carefully at the ex-
tent of these engagements, and to take such measures al
would prevent the recurrence of such events. If we were
responsible for the welfare of Syria, we had a right to inter-
fere with its administration, and demand that it should be
so conducted as to prevent the recurrence of such sangui-
nary events as led to the present occupation by foreign
troops, which he believed had prevented the effusion of some
blood in Syria. The weak state of the Government of Turkey
was shown by the disturbances in the State of Montenegro
andneighbouring States,which the Government was unable
to put down, and he believed that at this moment Turkey
was unable to send a squadron into the Adriatic, because
4.10.1....11 LLo

guarantees already, he hoped that we would take care and
give no more of such guarantees. We had hitherto faith-
fully fulfilled our treaty obligations to Turkey, and if we
wanted to get out of them we should do so openly. What
was really wanted by Turkey was a loan of money, and he
thought we were not prepared to assist it in that way. For
himself he should have liked the resolutions of his noble
friend to be adopted, in order that the opinion of their lord-
ships' house on the subject should have been recorded.
The Earl of MALMESBURY agreed with the noble lord
as to the weakness of Turkey in past times, but the bane of
Turkey had been not its own weakness, but the constant
interference of foreign Powers. In Montenegro there had
been constant orders and interference, both by Russia and
France. He could say, from his own experience when in
office, that nothing could be more barbarous than the con-
duct of the Montenegrins; but in 1846, when they were
about to be subdued by the Turkish Government, the Rus-
sian Government interfered to prevent it, and since then
France had maintained a continual interference, for which
reasons were not stated, but could be imagined. However,
it was not his intention to enter upon this question at length
upon that occasion. Ho merely rose to say that Turkey
had received a great deal too much of advice, and that it
would be better if her Government were less interfered with
in future by any parties whatever. (Hear, hear.)
' Lord STRATFORD de RE DCLIFFE said a few words
in explanation, and stated he was of opinion that such was
the character of the Turkish Government and the Turkish
people that i t was necessary to be continu ally pressing upon
their attention the necessity of carrying out the reforms
which were needed in that empire.
Earl GREY agreed with the noble earl opposite that it
was a great error on the part of European Governments to
be continually interfering in the affairs of Turkey. He
contended that Turkey should be left to itself. Reform, to
be of any value, must come from within. He hoped and
trusted they would not carry further the policy of interfe-
rence, and it was for the purpose of expressing that opinion
that he had risen to say a few words.
Lord STRATFORD de REDCLIFFE said there were
at least ten great measures which had been adopted in
Turkey on the recommendation of the Government of this
country, but they had not been carried out.
Earl GREY asked what was the use interfering to recom-
mend reforms when they were not acted upon ?
Earl GRANVILLE did not rise to prolong the debate,
but to express a hope that the noble lord would not press
his resolutions, as he thought mischief would arise by the
adoption of them, which he, however, considered their lord-
ships would not assent to. He did not agree with the senti •
ments expressed by the noble earl (Earl Grey) that in such
a state of things as they had witnessed in Syria, the Euro-
pean Governments should not interfere. If the Turkish em-
pire fell to pieces it would be difficult to say what would be
tile solution. Having already interfered and entered into
engagements with Turkey, it would be very unwise in this
country not to offer such advice as they deemed would give
strength and solidity to the Turkish empire.
Lord STRATFORD de RE DCLIFFE then withdrew
the resolutions.
BOROUGH OF DUBLIN BILL.

Lord TALBOT de MALAHIDE, in moving the second
reading of this bill, explained that it was to make some
local improvements necessary in the city of Dublin.
The bill was read a second time, and their lordships ad-
journed at 25 minutes past 7 o'clock.

ROUSE OF COMMONS.—YESTERDAY.
The SPE4XER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
sidTerhede Lords' sa' amendments to the following bills were con-
Great WestegZedßGarston and Liverpool Railway ;
weq (Capital) ; and Kingston-upon-
Thames and Leatherb.eadßoad.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Blyth and Tyne Railway, Clitheroe
Gas,Greetwell Dis-
trict Drainage, Leeds and Raised Road,
Limerick and
Foynes Railway, and Ross and Monmouth Railway.
The Trent, Anchholme, and Grimsby Railway and
Wycombe Railway (Extensions) Bills were considered and
PETITIONS
ordered for third reading..

Several petitions were presented against the abolition of
the Paper Duty, against certain provisions of the Budget,
for are-adjustment of the mode of levying the Income-tax,
already their parish.
from certain vestrymen in Liverpool that
might be exempted from the expense of Roman Catholic
chaplains being appointed, as such was unnecessary, they
being freely admitted to the workhouse.
into with the Re'
Thibet ?
THE RAJAH OF SIKKIM—INDIA.
Mr. ENsTA:RT
inquired .
. Mr. VANSITThI if any terms had been entered..
of Sikkim to afford increased facilities
of trade from Intl t
right hon. gentleman whether k that opportunity of asking the
bill on India before Whitsuntide
intended to introduce his
Sir C. WOOD said with real ?t
that he had received no official informationbee on the to the first question,
sub-
ject, but a communication had
Government, from which it appearedu
that
forwarded to the
arrangements,
had been effected to open the commerce fromhoPed to have.
Bengal to
Thibet. As regarded the second questicn, he
been able to lave brought in the Irwlia Dill Were the hell- ;