The Sun.
London, England, 1861-09-09 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, MONDAY EVENING, SEPTEMBER 9, 1861.

200 feet to 720 feet in length, and some of them 90
feet wide. In order to place ourselves on an equality
with the French navy, no less than to meet certain
emergencies, we must, with a reconstructed fleet,
found a colossal dock establishment on some favour-
able point on our southern shores, furnished with
the means of carrying on extensive repairs in time
of war. The most suitable of all positions is South-
ampton Water, and if we are wise enough to build
a set of docks there before the time of war arrives,
we shall have the satisfaction of knowing that the
largest iron-cased ships now in contemplation will
be able to run in and be docked with all their stores
on board, and everything standing ; and with
nothing less than this should we be satisfied.

Sir J. DALRYMPLE HAY said he had been
quite unexpectedly requested by Mr. Fairbairn,
as being associated with the committee to
which that gentleman had been referring, to
address a few remarks to the section, and must
therefore be excused if they were crude and
undigested. The labours of the committee had
been addressed first of all to the quality of the
material—viz., iron, by which the sides of ships
or fortresses were to be protected. The mode
of attaching that material was likewise an essential
point, as also was the process by which the side of
the fort or ship should be so constructed as to retain
in position the material used for its protection. It
had occurred to the committee that it was by ne
means the best mode of applying the iron to cover
ships of the old construction with shields or plates.
of armour. The days of wooden ships were entirely
numbered, in his opinion. He would not say that
this was the opinion of the committee, because their
views were liable to modification from day to day
according to the evidence they had before them.
The committee obtained from a great number of
manufacturers of iron in this country a series of
plates constructed of that description of iron which
the makers themselves considered best adapted for
the purpose in view. The plates began with a thick-
ness of a quarter of an inch, with an ascending
series of thicknesses up to eight or ten inches. The
result of experiments went to show that the steely
descriptions, or those which had been hardened ex-
tremely (and which went under various-designations
as semi-steel, or homogeneous iron), up to a certain
thickness—about three-quarters of an inch—pos-
sessed great resisting powers. But the committee
ascertained, with, as he believed, positive certainty
that, after that thickness of metal had been attained
its brittle nature rendered it less advantageous, in
resisting the blow of a projectile at a high velocity,
than was wrought iron of the very best quality,
but which should be soft and at the same time tena-
cious. So far as was hitherto ascertained, it ap-
peared that all holes bored in the plates to attach
them to a ship were a source of weakness. As yet
the Iron Plate Committee had not arrived at any
positive conclusions ; they had before them a most
interesting subject of inquiry, and invited the
assistance and suggestions of all the inventors
and scientific men of the country. What
naval men were most afraid of was, not the
solid missiles breaking through the ship's side,
but the combustible materials they might convey,
and the danger of which would shake the firmest
discipline. The committee could hardly hope to
arrive at any mode of excluding altogether the cold
shot from penetrating the iron side of a ship, but
they did think it possible so to construct and plate
a ship as that the hollow projectile impinging on its
side should be broken to pieces before penetrating,
and thus they would exclude the shells, red-hot
shot, or liquid iron, which were the most terrific
engines of war. He thought it of great advantage
that the wooden ships which had been laid down
and prepared for the English navy should not be
entirely lost to the country, but converted into iron-
sided frigates of great size and speed, because,
though they were not of the most scientific con-
struction, they were at least better than the vessels
opposed to them. (Applause.)

Sir W. ARMSTRONG, having been invited by the
President to make a few observations, said, although
it was quite true he was engaged in the construc-
tion of a 300-pounder, and the operation had so far
been attended with perfect success, still he found it
a matter of very considerable difficulty. He would
suggest to Captain Blakely that it might be better
to begin with producing an effective gun, adapted
for a 100-pounder, before venturing on such mon-
sters as that gentleman appeared to have in view.
He did not think it a matter of much importance
to put on hoops with the accuracy of dimension
which Captain Blakely contended was requisite.
He entirely concurred with Mr. Fairnbairn as to
the great desirability of adopting a form of
structure for iron-plated ships which should
obviate the necessity of using wood. He saw
very great importance in that, because they would
first get quit of great unnecessary weight ; they
were then enabled to thicken their plates, and
they also were relieved of the liability to the wood
rotting, and having the ship to 11 to pieces perio
dically for the purpose almost f reconstructing
it. In the construction of these ships we must
chiefly keep in view their adaptation for a small
number of monster guns. Timber ships to be used
against timber ships were very properly armed with
a large number of smaller guns ; but iron-plated
ships to be used against plated ships must be armed
with the most powerful guns practicable. There
was a feeling among naval men that guns beyond
a certain size would be unmanageable ; but we must
bring in the aid of mechanical powers which we
know to be available in the movement and control
of large masses, and not restrict ourselves to the use
of hand labour. (Hear, hear.) It would hardly be
sufficient, in assailing iron-plated vessels, to punch
small holes in their sides by means of projectiles;
but what was required was to be able to hurl huge
masses, no matter of what form, so as to produce a
great effect, and crush in the sides, if possible. This
could only be done by guns of the very largest
size. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. SCOTT RUSSELL said there were one or two
general considerations on the subject which he
thought must clear away a good deal of misunder-
standing. The first was, that they should all set
out by believing they would never get absolute im-
penetrability. If they set out with that belief, they
would get rid at once of a thousandschemes for ab-
solute impenetrability, and all the answers to them
were likewise removed out of their way. The whole
practical question was contained in this expression
of a good sailor—" Whatever you do, for God's sake
keep out.the shells." (Hear, hear.) This brought
them at once to the question whether punching out
holes in the armour was a point of very great value
or not. Having been in iron-plated vessels when
they were fired at with these projectiles, he was
able to say that one could stand behind an iron plate
under those circumstances with a wonderful deal,of
comfort. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) One could
be sure of " the shells being kept out." Up to
this time, however, it had been the custom to
load the sides of a ship with a dead weight
of useless metal coating, doing a great deal of harm
to the sailing qualities of the vessel. The committee
were going to confer the great benefit on ship-
builders of constructing a number of targets to see
what was the quantity of that iron which might be
taken into the ship itself without depriving the
coating of its inefficiency, so as, in fact, to give its
own strength to the vessel, besides serving as pro-
tection for it. As to the objection urged against
the Warrior, that the bow and stern were left ex-
posed, the practical point to remember was this—
that a ship could not carry armour along her whole
length, if below a certain size. In order to carry
that, the Government had now been obliged to go
much further in size. A 7,000-ton vessel would ful-
fil the conditions of a good warship, and yet carry
her armour from end to end; but a 3,000-ton vessel,
if loaded in the same way, would possess no good
sea-going quality combined with speed.
Sir E. BELCHES, in the course of some remarks
on various points of the discussion, said Dr. Eddy's
proposals had been met by the very clear answer
that the velocity in small vessels could never equal
that of the large ones with which they had to con-
tend. The cocoanut fibre which Dr. Eddy thought
of using was very liable to smoulder, and the salts
by which he meant to render it uninflammable
would corrode the iron so rapidly as to make the
vessels useless in the course of a very few months.
Ile (Sir E. Belcher) disapproved for various rca-

sons, excluding timber altogether from the con-
struction,

Mr. JOHNSON, the Rev. Dr. ROBINSON, and other
gentlemen afterwards joined in the discussion.

SECTION E.-GEOGRAPHY AND ETHNO-

LOGY.
EXPLORATION OF AUSTRALIA.

In this section Sir R. I. MURCHISON said he had
intended to read a letter from the Duke of New-
castle (but which he had unfortunately left at home,
but which he would send to the president to be
read on Monday), stating that the Government had
been pleased to accede to the application
of the Royal Geographical Society, who had re-
quested that a sufficient sum of money should be
granted to Mr. Frank Gregory to enable that gen-
tleman to complete his expedition through North
Western Australia. It was proposed to go north-
wards, turn the great North Western corner of
Australia, and proceed as far eastward as pos-
sible towards Cambridge Gulf. The object
was to ascertain the nature of the coast line
of this part of Australia and ascertain whether•
there were not great tracts of country capable of
cultivation, and well supplied with water. He
described the results of previous expeditions in
Australia, including one by Mr. Gregory's brother
and Mr. Stewart, and said Mr. Gregory's progress
in a former expedition had been stopped by his
meeting with a great and intensely saline desert,
and he had been obliged to diverge in the direction
of Queensland. It was with a view to ascertain
some of the cotton-growing capabilities of this
neighbourhood that the expedition was about to be
undertaken, and it was considered to be one of
great importance by the Geographical Society, who
had given to Mr. Stewart for his feat in penetrat-
ing 500 miles beyond the point any previous tra-
veller had reached, and in crossing that great con-
tinent, over which it was proposed to carry a mag-
netic telegraph, connecting it, through India, with
this country, their gold medal.

gorilla were very vague and uncertain until they received
the definite information of observed habits which M. Du
Chaillu had brought us. He would therefore rather request
M. Du Chaillu to answer the question himself, because if
if he (Professor Owen) were to do so, he would only be re-
peating whathehad heard from M. Du Chaillu. (Applause.)
M. Du CHAILLU again mounted the platform, and asked
that the question should be repeated, for he had not dis-
tinctly heard it. (The question related to the supposed
use of the enormous strength of the gorilla, and M. Du
Chailu was further asked if he had seen the gorilla employ
its immense strength.) M. Du Chaillu said he had seen the
gorilla break trees. The animal was very fond of the sap
of certain trees. The only thing he had seen was that those
trees were broken almost before him, and they measured
about 4in. in diameter. He did not say it was the hardest
wood, but it was tolerably hard wood, and he could see on
the tree the gnawings of the gorilla's tusks. The arm of
the animal was exceedingly powerful, but he could not say
exactly for what object it was so created. He had seen a
man knocked down by it who died. The gorilla did not go
much upon trees ; the large ones he never saw upon trees.
He imagined that the arm of the animal was its chief
means of defence, for when the monster advanced to the
attack he used this powerfully strong arm, which was so
long that if he took hold of them that would be their end.
(Laughter.) He did not know of any animals that fought
with the gorilla—he never saw such combats. He had
heard accounts of them, but he fancied that they pro-
ceeded more from the imagination of the natives than
from the truth. He wished he had seen a fight be-
tween a leopard or elephant and a gorilla ; but he doubted
if such contests took place. He thought each of these
animals would be shy of one another, being so powerful.
Professor 0 wen had seen in the British Museum one of these
animals with a broken arm, which the professor had told
him he thought was from the blow of a gorilla. He was now
of the same opinion, because the ribs of the man who was
killed were broken, and the gorilla was strong enough to
break any man's arm. M. Du Chaillu said the beating of
the animal's chest with its long arms sounded like the beat-
ing of a drum, and it must require tremendous power to
bring such sounds out of bones and muscles. He thought
this was the most formidable part of the monster, and de-
scribed it as a terrible sight to see him beat his chest. It
was true the beast was ugly enough in himself, but this
beating on the chest frightened him the most. (Laughter.)
M. Du Chaillu next described the awkward attempts of the
gorilla to walk. They had to sit down and rest after going
a little distance, because they walked with the greatest dif-
ficulty. The body was too large to be supported on its short
and crooked legs. He hoped other travellers would follow
him, so that more might be known about the habits of this
wonderful beast. The little he had made known would, he
hoped, incite others to further discovery.
Mr. ELIOTT—What is the nature of the country inha-
bited by your troglodytes ? Is it subject to inundation ?
M. Du CIIAILLU —Yes. All that part of Africa is subject
to inundation. It rains nine months of the year there.
Mr. Ennlorr—That probably induces it to form a habi-
tation in the trees.

Dr. LANKESTER had no doubt that this large audience
had been attracted, not only on account of the reputation
of the distinguished author of the paper which they had
just heard, and also the reputation of the great traveller
who had just spoken, but he believed there was an in-
terest in these creatures independently of the important
circumstances that surround them. He thought there
were many present who had a lively recollection of the
discussions which took place last year at Oxford, when that
great theory of the production of species was brought
forward so often ; and they would also recollect that there
were expressioas at that meeting which would seem to indi
cate that some naturalists, at least, were not unprepared to
believe that through a development, or through changes
which went on in the animal world, the gorilla might have
been in past ages the originator of man—he would not say
the direct parent. This question assumed great im?ortance
in the present day. There were many persons who did not
hesitate to announce this as their belief, and the audience
would be deeply obliged to Professor Owen if he would point
out what he thought was the difference between these great
monkeys, which were supposed to be most closely related to
man, and man himself. (Hear.)
Professor OWEN said he rose with great pleasure to en-
deavour to respond to the request of his fellow-labourer,
Dr. Lankester, knowing, however, that what he had to say
would be nothing new to his zoological friends. If he were
to express what he felt after the discussions which had
taken place on the resemblances and the differences organi-
cally between the anthropoid apes and man, it would be
somewhat as follows : —First, of course, it must be borne in
mind that our organical philosophy had long since shown
that man was no exceptional speciality in animal structure,
but as it were the sum and crown of the series of develop-
ments that were to be traced from ourselves down to the
lowest of the vertebrated series. For example, taking the
skull of a cod fish, one could point out on that head about 95
per cent. of the bones in our own head, and they were
called by the same names, being in the same relative posi-
tions, and having the same general relation to the nerves and
parts of the brain and vessels. Well, when that could be
done in a generally progressive and increasing degree from
the fish up to man, they saw at once what a close general
conformity of fundamental type our body was built out of.
As we approached nearer to man that resemblance became
more and more close, and consequently the difference be-
came more and more interesting and important. What
then were the differences between the gorilla, and the
boschman, the negro, or the lowest in form of our
species ? First, there was a difference in the position of the
innermost digit of the lower limb. In the gorilla it was
turned at a greater or less angle from the other digits, and
was, in fact, an opposable digit; it was a thumb; it was
not a great toe, as in man, nor parallel with the other toes ;
it was relatively stronger than the other digits, and was
associated with a broader foot, having the heel bone flatter
below ; it was also associated with a different relative posi-
tion of the joints upon which the leg rested, with other mo-
difications to give a broader basis of support to the whole
frame Then there were corresponding modifications of essen, •
tially the same bones throughout the vertebral column and
the ribs. In man a greater number of the lumbar vertebrce
were left free, and the ribs were limited to 12 pairs ; there
were 13 in the gorilla. Next the upper limbs were made in
an harmonious kind of proportion to the lower limbs, not
longer, but somewhat shorter. Every joint showed as it
were a perfection of structure. The thumb of the hair I was
made relatively stronger, and could be applied more dis-
tinctly as a prehensile organ to each digit, so thai; it became
a perfect instrument and organ of free will and rational in-
telligence. These differences were associated with still
greater modifications of the skull. There were the same
bones and the same relative position, but there was an al-
most hydrocephalous expansion of the head in man as cona-
pared with the gorilla. The brain cavity in man was a fine
globular part, with which we ass elated the idea of highest
beauty, and the Greeks exaggerated it to show that beauty,
yet there was a connection between the vast head of man
and the mere spines sticking up in the head of a fish. In the
brain it,elf there was a marked and certainly a sudden in-
crease of size in all directions, which was due chiefly, if not
wholly, to one particular part of the brain called the cere-
bral hemispheres. Professor Owen pointed out other and
more abstruse differences between the structure of man and
the ape, which, though apparently unimportant in them-
selves, were of the highest significance when viewed col-
lectively and in contrast. The gorilla maintained an
erect position with difficulty, and hobbled in an
awkward manner rather than walked, being obliged to sit
down and rest every 20 yards before he could come up to
the attack. (Laughter.) What were the other great dif-
ferences between man and the ape ? There was first the
marked difference of speech. This was the one great dis-
tinction between every variety of our race and all the lower
animals, with whom there was no nearer approach to it
than the utterance of a kind of distinctive cry, a roar and
bellow of rage, or a shriek of alarm ; this was all that the
highest apes could do in the way of speech. He confessed
his entire ignorance of the mode in which it has pleased our
Creator to establish our species, as it was said, " out of the
dust of the earth." By what marvellous process all that
might be accomplished was not told to us, nor need it be.
Without, therefore, having any kind of idea in his own
mind, or any sense of a proof, or a demonstration, or an
approximation, how man originated, he was quite open to
any evidence that might be vouchsafed to u;; and if in
future investigations we should get a little mo so' ctory
insight into the origin of our own species, the, e;,tt most
gladly accept it. All that knowledge would lee: 7e us
just where we are for any of those considerat h.ich
we were supremely interested, namely, the .rose
higher powers associated with this glorious , •
was coupled what had been revealed to us—a
for the use of it. (Applause.)
This closed the interesting discussion.

.urs

AN IRISIIMA.N IN AND OUT OF TRO .—A son
of the "Emerald Isle," but not himself green, , taken up
(for he was at the time down) near a rebel encarci, not
far from Manassas Junction. In a word, Pat w+ .g a
quiet nap in the shade, and was aroused from hilS : berg
by a scouting party. lie wore no special uniforivr > ither
army, but looked more like a spy than an alliga* ad on
this was arrested. " Who aro yeu, what is your, and
where are you from ?" were the first questions. a him
by the armed party. Pat rubbed his eyes, se( t d his
head, and answered—" By my faith, gintlemeti, ~em is
ugly questions to answer anyhow ; and before I ver any
of them, I'd be after axin you, by yer lave, the 5(1 thing."
" Well," said the leader, "we are of Scott's am: . and be-
long to Washington." " All right," said Pat; know'd
ye was gintlemen, for lam that same. Long life_ General
Scott." "Abe," replied the scout ; "now, yoga ascal you
are our prisoner," and seized him by the shoub,::: . "How
is that ?" inquired Pat, " arc we not friends ?" f To," was
the answer, "we belong to Beauregard's army ' "Then
you told me a lie, me boys, and thinking it m ;ht be so, I
told you another. Now tell me truth, and ill tell the
truth, too." "We belong to the State of Sout. C.trolina."
"So do I," promptly replied Pat, "and to the other
States of the country, too; and there I'm thin ug I bate
the whole of ye. Do you think I would come the way
from Ireland to belong to one State, when I h 4, 1 aright to
belong to the whole of 'em ?" This logic t rather. a
stamper; but they took him as beforesaid, and Ica, vied him
iu for further examinationt—Arow York Cymniime,