The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-09 00:00:00

THE f, F gUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING.; JULY 9, 1859

years of the impressment system. During the three years
there were 29,405 impressed, and 27,313 deserted—(hear,
and laughter)—so that the whole gain to the country was
only 2,082 men. But to obtain that number there were 3,000
excellent sailors employed on shore as pressgangs, so that,
in fact, the country actually lost about 1,000 men by the
system of impressment. (Hear, hear.) Those figures fur-
nished an unanswerable argument against impressment,
and he thought that system would never again be resorted
to. He hoped in his remarks he had given no cause of
offence to the right hon. baronet opposite ; but he must
remark that almost all naval officers were of opinion that
the future position of the navy had been jeopardised. He
hoped no ill effects would ensue, but thought that Parlia-
ment ought to have been consulted, in which case the bounty
system would not have been resorted to, or, at all events, not
upon so large a scale. He would tell the house what had
been the results of the bounty system since May 1, 1859.
The total number who had entered and received bounty
was 5,730 men, of whom 1,437 were able seamen. He was
bound to say that that was a very fair proportion of able
seamen, and, as far as success went, the plan might be said
to have great merit. (Hear, hear.) The next vote was
vote No. 2, which was the victualling vote for the addi-
tional men. In this was included the sum required for the
usual purchase of provisions and victualling stores, and the
sum necessary to meet the increased rations of biscuit and
sugar for the seamen and marines when afloat. This latter
was another excellent reeommendation of the Royal Com-
mission which the late Government carried out. (Hear,

hear.) There was also the gratuitous issue of bedding and
clothing to which he had before alluded. In vote No. 3of
the supplemental estimate, the sum of £3,000 was asked
for to provide for the additional employment of clerks in the
Admiralty ; and ho thought that the house would readily
see that the great increase of the fleet involved a great addi-
tional amount of correspondence and assistance. (Hear.)
And now he came to vote No. 4, in the supplemental esti-
mate required to meet the expense of forming a volunteer
reserve force of seamen, pursuant to the recommendation

contained in the report of the Royal Commission on Man-
ning the Navy. The hon. member for Sunderland had
given notice of a motion to defer this vote until more infor-
mation was produced ; but he hoped that the few observa-
tions he was about to make would prevent his hon. friend
from taking that course. The hon. member was aware that
the Royal Commission of last year recommended that a sum
of £200,000 should be taken for a variety of matters of de-
tail, with which he need not now trouble the house, for the
improvement of our reserves ; one of their recommendations
was in favour of school-ships, and another was for an
annual payment penman of £1 to the pension fund, and
also of £.5 yearly as a retaining fee for 20,000 men, making
a total of £200,000. The late Government before quitting
office took a long time to consider these matters, and they
arrived at the conclusion at last that £lOO,OOO should be the
sum. It would be deceiving the house to say that the pre-
sent Board of Admiralty, having been in office only about a
week, had had time to go into the consideration of this ques-
tion, for the amount of other business had entirely pre-
vented proper attention being paid to it hitherto. (Hear,
hear.) However, the present Board of Admiralty felt that
it would be obviously impolitic, because they had not yet
been able to arriveat a decision upon the details of the sub-
ject, that they should therefore exclude this sum from the
estimates. It was wiser to retain the sum in the estimates,

and, as soon afterwards as they could see their way, to prepare
a bill or bills to carry out the measure. Now, not one shilling
of this money could be spent until the House of Commons
agreed to pass enactments necessary to carry out the recom-
mendations of the Royal Commission. Therefore the hon.
member for Sunderland would perceive it was unnecessary to
press his motion, because if the house thought fit not to
assent to the measures carrying out so far the views of the
Royal Commission, this fund would not be spent, and it
would only become available for the experiment in the
event of the approval of the house. Consequently, he
trusted that his hon. friend would not object to the vote
upon the understanding that not one shilling of the money
would be spent until an act of Parliament was passed au-
thorising the Government to lay it out for the improvement
of our reserves. (Hear.) He would now turn to the ori-
ginal estimates, in which vote No. 5 was for the scientific
branch. There was a small increase in it, but he was not
aware that there was anything in that vote or in vote No.
6, providiftg for the establishments at home, on which he
need detain the house. He might say the some with re-
gard to vote No. 7, referring to the establishments abroad,
and now he came to vote No. 8. This was a vote on which
it would be necessary for him to make some few observa-
tions. Besides, the ordinary wages of shipwrights there
was an extraordinory charge here, which he believed they
might call the "reconstruction" charge. These formed two
distinct charges in the original estimates; and there was
also a large sum in the supplemental estimates under the
head of wages to artificers. He would proceed to explain the
history of this transaction. Up to March last the men in
the dockyards were working in the usual way on day pay.
There was no particular pressure on the dockyards, and the
men were all receiving their day's pay for a day's labour.
But in March the late Government thought fit to commence
a system of task and job work, and also to enter a consider-
able number of additional artificers. There were 1,434 ship-
wrights entered in addition to a corresponding number of
other labourers. In April, again, the right hon. gentle-
man, the late First Lord of the Admiralty, considered it
important, probably from circumstances connected with
foreign affairs, to make additional exertions ' • and then com-
menced a system of over hours; that was to say, besides
the institution of task and job work, men were allowed to
work over hours, and so the dockyards went on until
May, when there came a large increase of no less than
1,350 shipwrights and other artificers and labourers; mak-
ing a total of 17,690 workmen now employed in the dock-
yards against 14,128 employed in the month of March.
This was a very great increase, and he believed that the in-
crease was absolutely necessary. (Hear, hear.) He thought
that the right hon. gentleman (Sir J. Pakington) deserved
the gratitude of the country for having taken this matter in
hand, for having come to the decision of raising the
amount of workmen in the dockyards with the least possible
delay. (Hear, hear.) The present Government, on coming
into office, looked very carefully over this vote, and they
sent for the Surveyor of the Navy, Sir B. Walker, and asked
very particularly for what period this additional expense
would provide pay for the additional men; and Sir B. Walker
stated that it would only pay the men up to the month of
October. It would be very unwise that that body of men
should be discharged, when the short days of winter were
coming on, when over the country work was scarce, and,
moreover, when there would still remain in the dockyards
a vast amount of work to be done; and therefore the Go-
vernment had resolved to keep them on till the end of the
financial year, and to ask for an additional sum of £lOO,OOO
on that account. This was a sufficient answer to the state-
ments which had been made, that the present Government
intended to cut down the expenditure in the dockyards, and
to cease the efforts which were being made to put our navy
upon a war footing. (Hear, hear.) Up to the present year,
all the information which the house had about vote 10 had
been that it was for materials for shipbuilding. They had
often heard little disputes between high authorities as to
the number of ships which had been built by this or that
Government. He remembered that the right hon. baronet
opposite (Sir J. Pakington) claimed some line-of-battle-
ships of his right hon. friend the
They were built almost en-
tirely iion. baronet was in office ; but,
s Secretary
whilech
of
ths weretae
latterte thefo r propertyngidlita
as they were finished under the administration of the right
hon. baronet the member for Droitwich, he claimed them as
having been built during his time. For the purpose of
putting an end to these discussions, and giving the house
an idea of what building really was carried on in our dock-
yards, he had„ endeavoured to ascertain what amount of
tonnage was built there in a year. During the past year,
1858-9, we had built three line-of-battle ships of 10,604
tons ; frigates, 5,851; corvettes, 1,193 ; sloops and gun
vessels, 1,511; total, 19,159 tons. If the scheme of the
Government were carried out, and no unforeseen contin-
gency should arise, there would be built of line-of-battle
ships 19.606 tons; frigates, 15,897; corvettes, 5,130; sloops
and gun vessels, 5,651; total, 46,284, or more than double
the tonnage built last year. During the present year we
were converting five sail-of the line and four 50-gun fri-
gates. This was entirely exclusive of contract-built ships.
Of marine engines we had at present in course of construc-
tion 14,570 horse-power, and orders had been given for
2,160 horse-power more, making a total of 16,730 horse-
power more. This was the way in which the money appro-
priated under vote 10 was expended. He hoped that next
year the noble duke at the head of the Admiralty would
permit him to place these facts upon the estimates in order
to show hon. members how the money which they voted was
applied. He could assure the committee that it was the
earnest desire of the noble duke, and of the Board of Admi-
ralty, to give every possible information on thtse matters.
(Hear, hear.) The sum taken in the original estimates for
ships building by contract was £252,000, which was the first
instalment far two iron-sased frigates, one of which would
be lisunched on the 18th of April next—the total cost
of Which he was not then in a position to state. In addi-
tion to this sum there was in the supplemental estimates
a vote for 18 gun vsssels of a very superior class, which were
to be built by contract. With regard to vote No. 11 for
new works, improvements, and repairs, the new Board of
Admiralty, having had no time to visit the different dock •
yards, had formed no independent judgment. Each year
we built larger ships, and consequently had to enlarge
our docks; and he supposed we should go on in the
same way until there came a change, and ships were reduced
in size. (Hear, hear, from Sir C. Napier.) On the 12th
and 13th votes he had no remark to offer to the house. The
14th was the vote for half-pay, and in the supplementary
estimate on this an addition was asked for on account of the
increase in the scale of the half-pay of medical officers and
chaplains. It had reference to the order to which he had
adverted when explaining vote 1 for full pay. Vote 15 was
for military pensions, and was of the usual character. Vote
16 was for the conveyance of troops, and as the Govern-
ment had recently thought fit to reinforce the Mediterra-
nean garrisons, a considerable increase in this vote had
been thereby entailed. On the vote for the Packet Service
in the supplementary estimate, for which there was an in-
crease on account of the new contract for the conveyance of
mails from Dover to Calais and Ostend, his colleague, the
Civil Lord of the Admiralty, in whose department it fell,
would give any explanation which might be desired. He
had 'nosy gone through these complicated estimates to the
best of his limited ability, though he was conscious that he
had omitted many important and interesting details which
it was his duty and his desire to have laid before the house.
In the remarks which he had been obliged to make on
that which had taken place under the late Government, he
hoped that he said nothing which could be deemedoffensive,
for his only desire was to state his opinion, and particularly
his professional opinion as a naval man, on the points which
had lately occupied so much of the public attention. If
there was one subject which could be debated more than
another without any infusion of party spirit, it was the
state of our navy, for all parties-were equally interested in
maintaining the efficiency of that great arm of England's
glory. (Hear.) He trusted, therefore, that in discussing
these estimates there would be an entire absence of party
spirit, and that all would enter on the question with the
single desire to put the navy on the most efficient footing.
This country desired peace, not war—(hear)—and in the
great preparations which wo were making to arm our fleets
we had not the smallest desks for aggression on other
countries. The earnest desire of every man in this country
must be that this horrible and bloody war might bo brought
to an end, and he trusted that what we had lately heard
might be the forerunner of it. (Cheers.) But the words of
the poet were as true now as when they were written—
" With common men
It needs too oft the show of war
To keep sweet peace."
The noble lord concluded by moving that 10,000 additional
men and boys be granted for service in her Majesty's fleets.
Sir J. PAKINGT ON—After the speech of the noble
lord I am happy to say I shall not think it necessary to de-
tain the committee at any length, nor have I the slightest
complaint to make of the tone and manner in which he has
treated the subject. (Hear.) On the contrary, lam anxious
to bear my testimony to the ability with which he has per-
formed his duty, and considering the few days which he
has held his present office, the committee must feel that it
is highly to his credit. (Cheers.) lam bound, too, to ac-
knowledge the candour and fairness with which he has re-
ferred to the efforts madeby the late Government to increase
the efficiency of the navy. He has confirmed that which I
felt it my duty to state as to the force which wetturned