The Sun.
London, England, 1861-07-27 00:00:00

IRON-CASED SHIPS.

Admiral WALCOT entirely approved the course which
had been taken by the Admiralty as explainedby the noble
lord at the morning sitting. The protection of our own
shores, our enormous commerce, and our widespread colo-
nies and dependencies rendered it a matter of vital import-
ance that our navy should be placed on a footing not only
equal, but superior to every other navy in the world. Our
naval supremacy was essential to our existence as an em-
pire. He should therefore not only concur in the present
voter but next session would give his most cordial support
to any increase of the estimate of £2,300,000 which might
be thought necessary. He gave every credit to the late
First Lord of the Admiralty for his exertions to place
our navy in the state in which it ought to be. He
wished to know from the noble lord whether the six ships
he proposed to lay down were to be altogether of iron or of
wood and iron combined. At no distant period he believed
the staple material used in the construction of our ships
would be iron, but there could be no objection to converting
those for which the timber had been prepared into iron-
cased ships. Independently of large ships like the Warrior
and Black Prince we required some of smaller dimensions—
not more than 280 feet long,carrying 18 guns, cased entirely
in iron and having a speed of about 12 knots an hour. He
did not exactly understand what the noble lord proposed
with respect to the construction of the ships he mentioned
to-day. What was to be their tonnage, what guns were they
to carry, and were they to be built entirely by contract, or,
to some extent, in our naval yards ? Before the Admiralty
proceeded with these ships the Warrior should be fairly
tried, not being sent to sea in smooth weather, but with the
prospect of a good heavy gale of wind.
Captain JERVIS had heard the statement of the noble
lord this morning with great satisfaction, and it had also
afforded him no little gratification to find the right hon.
baronet the member for Droitwich giving the noble lord
I his earnest support. He had, however, heard with great

surprise the right hon. baronet the member for Carlisle (Sir
J. Graham), although in a tolerably full house, propose
that the vote should be postponed in order that it might be
discussed when there was a larger attendance. They ought
to support the Government energetically to enable it at the
earliest possible period to have as good and efficient a fleet
of iron ships as the French possessed. The Admiralty could
not be too careful in the steps they were taking with respect
to the mode of constructing iron ships. In asking now for

only £250,000 for this purpose the Government were acting
judiciously. We had to reconstruct a navy which should
have the mastery of any other navy in the world, and the
average cost of each iron-cased-ship was estimated at half-
a-million sterling. He wished to know whether the Ad-
miralty had determined to condemn rolled iron plates, and
to confine themselves entirely to the making of steam ham-
mered plates instead.
Mr. LINDSAY said that the right hon. baronet the mem-
ber for Carlisle, when this estimate was brought forward at
the morning sitting, thought the matter too important to
be considered in so thin a house. The question was now re-
vived at the evening sitting, when the attendance was not
any larger, and the right hon. baronet himself was absent.
It was a great question whether by this enormous expendi-
ture we were not creating a greater danger from within than
that against which we were seeking to guard from without.
The effect of our increased armaments would be to induce
the French Government to build more ships ; and, he would
ask, where was this continual emulation of expenditure to
end ? He doubted that the French were building 10 new
iron ships, and hoped the Government would show some
better ground for this proposition than mere rumour. He
had sent a gentleman to visit the dockyards of France, and
could see no signs of the great preparations that were
alleged to be going on. Unless the noble lord could give a
sufficient explanation of the necessity for this vote, he
should certainly oppose it.
Lord PALMERSTON—It is supposed by my hon. friend
that our information rests upon the statement of Admiral
Elliot. Now, Ido not in the least degree mean to discredit
that report, but we have other information upon the subject
from totally different quarters. (Hear, hear.) We know
that the French Government have now afloat six iron
vessels of various sieea--two of them two-deckers, not fri-
gates—(hear)—all large vessels. We know that they have
laid down lately the keels and made preparations to com-
plete 10 other iron vessels of considerable dimensions.
(Hear, hear.) The design was taken as far back as Decem-
ber last, but was not carried inlm effect until May, because
they were waiting to ascertain what were the qualities and
the character of La Gloire and other ships afloat. My hon.
friend says he sent a friend to the French dockyards, who
saw nothing. I remember an amusing story called "Eyes
and No Eyes"—(laughter)—one person who saw every,
thing, and the other, who made the same tour, saw
nothing ; but the one who saw was right, for the things
he saw were there, and the things which the other man did
not see were not the less in existence. (Hear, hear.) 'Well,
here are six ships afloat, or which could be completed in the
course of next year. Ten others are begun, which will be
completed, with ordinary exertion, in the course of 18
months or two years, and which by great exertion might be
completed in less time. We know that the French Govern-
ment have great dockyard establishments. The area of their
dockyards is, I believe, three or four times that of our own.
They have an almost unlimited amount of labour, for they
aro not now occupied in building purely wooden ships, and
if it were their interest or their view to hasten in any great
degree the completion of these iron vessels—there is no il-
lusion about them, for we know their names and the ports
at which they ern being built—if it suited them to hasten
materially the completion of these ships, they might proba-
bly finish them in 18 months. That makes 16 iron ships ; but
besides them France has, I believe, 11 floating batteries, as
they are called, but two or three of which are very powerful
seagoing ships. That makes 27 ships which they might have
fit for sea at the end of two years. (Hear.) My hon. friend
asks if thin is to go on, England increasing her force and
France increasing hers. But I say in this case France has
taken the lead. It is not our preparations which induce
France to make her preparations ; but it is her great prepa-
rations which render it indispensable we should make cor-
responding preparations. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman tells
us to look at home and spoke about a bad harvest, interrupted
trade, the industry of the country impaired and thwarted.
Those would be unpleasant and lamentable results, but are
we, in anticipation of those evils,with our eyes open, to add
an additional evil—(hear)—that of having another country
superior to us at sea? Is that a remedy for those evils?
Upon the contrary, it would be a great aggravation of them,
and would expose this country to a condition which my hon.
friend, as a good Englishman, would be most unwilling to
see it exposed. There is nothing in what he has said to jus-
tify the vote which he announced his intention of giving ;
and I hope, after this explanation, he will not feel it neces-
sary to continue his opposition to the vote. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LINDSAY hoped that the Secretary to the Ad-
miralty would tell the house in what ports and arsenals of
France the six great iron ships, the 11 powerful iron-cased
batteries, and the 10 ships laid down were to be found. If
what the noble lord had stated was true—and he ought to
be accurately informed—his statement was quite alarming,
and he for one would not be satisfied with a vote of
£2,500,000, but would be prepared to vote double that sum.
France had no right to have these ships. If she had them,
she could not be honest in ,her professions to England—
(hear)—and it behoved us to know what she meant by such
armaments. He could not help thinking, however, that
the Government had been misinformed.
Mr. HE should not have offered any observation
on this question but for the remarks of his hon. and gallant
friend (Captain Jervis), who had found fault with his pro-
posal for postponing this debate. Already the discussion
that had taken place had been a full warrant for that post-
ponement. (Hear, hear.) The statement just made by the
Prime Minister was not unimportant. (Hear, hear.) His
hon. and gallant friend said that when the Navy Estimates
were proposed, the house had been forewarned of these
supplementary votes. His hon. friend must have had
quicker cars than himself. He should have been much
surprised if, when the noble lord had proposed the Navy
Estimates, any one had discovered in his speech any
ground ,for the opinion that a supplementary vote would
be taken pledging the country to a future expenditure of
£2,500,000. The noble lord had taken credit to himself
for having made a candid statement to the house
of the purpose for which the £2,500,000 was re-
quired. But if this supplementary vote had been an-
nounced when the Navy Estimates were under discussion,
it al ould have been a mere matter of course, on which
it would not have been necessary for the noble lord to have
said one word. (Hear.) His hon. and gallant friend urged the
Government not to go on in haste, and to do nothing blind-
fold. He recommended them to try experiments on iron-
cased ships—on the Warrior, for example, which was almost
the only iron-cased ship we had got. It did not seem, how-
ever, very satisfactory to build up a ship at a vast expense
and then batter her to pieces. (A laugh.) It was not quite
clear whether the idea of building iron-cased ships did not
first come from us, although the French had worked it out
more rapidly and continuously. 'We had waited to see
whether modern artillery would batter these plates or not.
It was now quite clear that, under all circumstances, we must
go on. (Hear.) He did not think the country had any choice
in that respect, but he disagreed with the hon. member (Mr.
Lindsay) in thinking that t his was a matter to be regarded as
oTlnoitoi
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ohs" England. The
ihon. member had no right to say that it was any proof of
time of the Revolution, but France chose to he:d'veeiat a a navy.
The
r gain. Nor was it a proof of hostility if France thought
that iron ships were better than wooden ones. We ought
to look at this question irrespective of France, and to take
care that we had a navy equal not only to that of France,
but all other nations put together. Every small State was
building iron-cased ships now, and if we waited until cun-
ning men in artillery battered the Warrior to pieces and
ascertained the number of plates that would resist shot, we
should fall so much behind that when the pinch of the
game came we should not be able to fetch it up. (Hear.)
The Government must have time to build these ships, and
if we did not go on at the same rate as other nations we