The Sun.
London, England, 1861-03-04 00:00:00

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I The discussion on the address in the French
Senate assumed an unusual interest on Friday last
in consequent of the speech of Prince Napoleon in
reply to the attacks made upon the policy of the
Imperial Government by the Marquis de Laroche-
jacquelin.
Prince Napoleon spoke in substance as follows :
" Gentlemen,—There are attacks which reflect
honour, and I leave the care of replying to the out-
rages which you have heard to Liberal opinion in
Europe, to Italian opinion in Europe, to Italian
patriotism, and to the 200,000 soldiers who, with
, made the campaign of
theltalyE. m p( roourdaatp
ptheir a
thieoand.
They will know how
to defend King Victor Emmanuel against the
attacks of which he is the object. (Renewed appro-
bation.) You will not allow the Marquis de la
Rochejaquelein, newly come into the Senate, and
who ought to have entered it with the conciliatory
spirit of the Emperor (murmurs on different
benches), you will not allow him to falsify the
opinion of the empire. I am anxious to rectify what
has been said to you. No ! we are not the repre-
sentatives of reaction, always and everywhere. We
represent modern society and its progressive ten-
dencies, has said that the
Emperor
wasM. d
ae
ar l a Rochejaquelein
among Kings. Yes ! and
parvenu
he glories in it, for he came among Kings as the
representative of Liberal principles—the principles
of 'B9. (Loud and continued marks of approba-
tion). Nations are not mistaken—they rely on
Napoleon III„ who will not fail in his mission.
(Renewed approbation.) The Emperor, in his
speech from the throne, pronounced some words
which had the approbation of M. de Heeckeren.
"Baron de Heeckeren—Certainly.
" Prince Napoleon—Gentlemen, these words were
words of pity. (' Oh, oh !') They were words of
high propriety as regarding an unfortunate Sove-
reign. Pity, gentlemen, must not be confounded
with sympathy. Our sympathies are for the
glorious Italian cause. They are for those
allies who shed their blood by our side at Magenta
and Solferino. (Approbation.) M. de Heeckeren
has stigmatised those members of Royal families
who betray their chiefs in critical moments, and I
can only approve what he has said. True it is that
such examples of desertion have been often seen,
but it is also true that the Bourbon family have
given them the most frequently ; such were those
of Philippe Egalite, and by the Orleans family.
Remember also the affair of Bayonne and the
reciprocal treasons of the Spanish Bourbons. Re-
member also the last incidents in the history of the
Count de Montemolin. If M. de Heeckeren has
intended to make an allusion I at once take it up—
(hear, hear)—as its whole weight falls on the family
which he wished to defend. Since he has entered
on the subject we must speak loyally and frankly.
Differences and different opinions may be found
sometimes in prosperity, but never in adversity.
(Great applause.) There are, indeed, Sovereign
families who manifest differences of opinion in pros-
perous seasons, but who form a united band in time
of peril. (Hear, hear.) Prince Lucien had a dif-
ference with the head of the Imperial dynasty; he
became reconciled when danger presented itself.
(Approbation.) Gentlemen, the future, be sure of
it, will correspond with the past. (Hear.) Were
danger to arise for the Imperial dynasty, which
may God forbid, then, oh ! then, history would not
have to register one of the sad examples that we
find in the conduct of the House of Bourbon. The
Napoleons would be but as one man. (Loud ap-
plause.) I feel called on to address a few words to
the Marquis de Larochejaquelein touching the
English alliance. That hon. gentleman is con-
sistent in his attacks, but we also are consistent in
our defence of that alliance—not an alliance with
this or that Minister, but with the great liberal
English people. By that alliance, though we may
have to make some concessions on secondary points,
we can defend the great principles of liberty and
progress. But, above all this, the country should
learn that we desire an alliance which leads us to
the performance of great actions. Much has
been spoken, he said, against universal suf-
frage; but, to be convinced of its justice,
examine it in Savoy, and see if there ,ever
existed a finer spectacle ! There has been but one
opinion in the Senate on this subject. But I must
also recognise the perfect good faith of Piedmont in
these circumstances. Feeling perhaps some regret,
in ner a solution of
all the difficulties that beset the _Emperor. She has
loyally paid her debt of gratitude to her great ally.
(Hear.) The treaties of 1815 are no doubt to be
respected, but on the condition of execrating and
tearing them whenever it may be possible. (Ap-
plause.) These treaties have been respected by
Europe, but en condition of violating them to our
prejudice. Remember Cracow. These treaties have
indeed been continually invoked against us, in
virtue probably of the great jurist Vattel, cited yes-
terday by M. Larochejaquelein. Gentlemen, it is
the glory of the Emperor that he has torn the trea-
ties of 1815 with the point of his sword—(much ap-
plause)—and the people are grateful to him for the
act. Gentlemen, it remains for me to dwell upon
the fundamental question of our discussion—a ques-
tion the triumph of which it will be most difficult to
effect in the mind of the Senate. I mean the unity
of Italy. This unity, gentlemen, is the inevitable
result of the war of 1859. I foresaw it, and con-
fess that I became a partisan of the war for this
reason. The war contained the germ and principle
of Italian unity. By the defeat of Austria, all the
petty Italian princes, merely prefects of that power,
were involved in her catastrophe. These Princes
were but the liege subjects of Francis Joseph. Had
not the King of Naples himself alienated his sove-
reignty in favour of Vienna ? Had he not signed a
treaty engaging himself to give to his people no
other than Austrian institutions ? It is said that
one person is cleverer than any other, and that his
name is Tout le Monde.' Well, Tout le Monde'
said that after the campaign of 1859 these princes
must fall with Austria. It was the voice of the
people, it was the opinion of Italy. There was one
Sovereign who was not the prefect of Austria, and'
who has become so by his own free choice—the
Pope. But after the campaign of 1859 Italy was
obliged to become French or Italian ; she could no
longer be Austrian. You do not wish her to be
French ; allow her then to be Italian. I approach
a delicate question—the confederation ; in my
'opinion, an unfortunate idea. The Emperor, be it
observed, never meant to impose on Italy. He
merely said, I have rendered you a great service ;
I have studied history, and I recommend the con-
federation. If you follow this advice I shall be
pleased ; if you do not, I shall not punish you.'
That distinction has been very clearly laid down
in an eloquent despatch of M. Thouvenel—' Follow
our advice' is the language, and you may rely on
us both in peace and war, we accept an entire re-
sponsibility ; follow it not, you will have entire
liberty to act at your own risk and peril.' The
idea of a confederation, however, was an old one,
reproduced at Villafranca. At that place I eon-
' versed a little with everybody. Nobody desired a
Confederation, neither Austria nor the Pope. The
Pope only asked for his own provinces with some-
body to guard them for him. Victor Emmanuel
desired something better than a confederation.
People do not accept fragments when they can get
the whole. At the present day a policy should be
carried on in full light of clay. Neither did the
b
Italians desire a Confederation, which would bring
their expelled Princes, and become an instru-
ment of oppression. On the whole the Confedera-
tion was a hypothesis brought forward by France,
and this hypothesis was repudiated by all interests.
A difficult task still remains for me—that of con-
vincing the Senate that the unity of Italy is favour-
able to France. The interest of France must, in
fact, predominate over all other questions ; and an
orator who should influence by his arguments some
chivalrous heart, acme lover of national liberty,
apart from French interest, would never forgive
himself. (Applause.) Now, we have in Italy a
complete similitude of race and religion. We have
frontiers which, thanks to the annexation of Savoy
and Nice, can give rise to no discussion. And as
the opportunity offers I seize it to repudiate all the
insinuations which attribute to us a desire to ap-
propriate the spoils of Italy. No—we desire no-
thing in Italy ; we have recovered what the
Holy Alliance took from us in 1815 ; it was
our duty and our right—it was also the duty
of Italy to make the restitution. But beyond that
all fears are chimerical. The policy of France, I
can myself affirm, and fear not to say that in this
I interpret the mind of the Emperor, is exempt
from all dynastic ambition; I find guarantees in
the orders I received in undertaking a command in
Italy, apart, unfortunately, from the military ope-
rations, but also of a more diplomatic character.
The Marquis de Larochejaquelin has spoken much
opinion, too
malyl his grounds
omnu
cthe. s üßbuj et esti
no!f e
E hn
eg lhaansd
developedand,
of mistrust, he ought, at any rate, to accept the
arguments which bring to view the state of our
naval force as opposed to that of England. Now,
what is our object in this matter? It is not to be-
come the centre of all marines of the second order ?
This is so true that when France went to the Crimea

to combat the reaction at Sebastopdl, as the has
since done on the Mincio, those who were opposed
to the expedition had no better objection to make
than that we were going to promote the gain of
England by destroying a navy of the second rank ;
and, certainly, if this argument was not of a nature
to deter France from her object it was undeniable
that the destruction of the Russian marine would
have been a weakening of the power of France.
For these reasons the creation of an Italian marine
becomes a force for us. English statesmen were
aware of this. In 1849 Lord Aberdeen, drawing
a picture of the inconveniences that might result. to
England from Italian unity, did not fail to give
weight to this creation. But the unity of Italy is
especially valuable to French interests, because it
is the only reasonable mode of modifying the trea-
ties of 1815, and because it prevents for the future
that abandonment in which France found herself
placed at former epochs. Italy is the natural ally of
France; to affirm this it is not necessary to rely on
the gratitude of peoples—their interests alone are
sufficient. Do you not think that there will long
exist an insurmountable rancour between
Austria and Italy ? In what did the pre-
sence in Italy of all these fallen princi-
palities subserve French interests ? The question
was who could influence them most. Formerly it was
the Spaniard—then came the Austrian. From this
day forth there will be no influence in Italy but
the legitimate influence of conviction and similarity
of causes. Moreover, to unite the French and
Italian nations, there is the connecting link of
universal suffrage. This is what places us, I will
not say in conflict, but at variance with former
dynasties, and by this means the two peoples are
connected in indissoluble union. There is no ques-
tion of a King of the Lombards ; it is that of a
King of an emancipated people which has nobly
confided to him the guardianship of its indepen-
dence. Cabinets make no mistake about this • and
from this also arises the confidence of peoples in
Napoleon 111. [The Prince proceeded to contrast
the Imperial policy with that of the men of 1848,
to the advantage of the former, observing that he
would not have mentioned the subject had not the
partisans of 1848 sought to embitter the debate.
But being led on to discuss it, he boldly vindicated
the policy of 1859 in opposition to that of the men
of 1848, who refused to support Charles Albert
because he was a King, and ended in colouring a
cowardice by a perfidy.] Prince de Metternich
formerly said that the unity of Italy could only be
a geographical expression, and yet six years have
scarcely elapsed since that Prince, the irreconcile-
able enemy of France, has been in his tomb, and
Austria may be asked, ' Where are you ? You are
neither at Venice with the Italians, nor at Pesth
with the Hungarians, nor at Prague, nor at Cra-
cow; you are only there with your muskets and
your soldiers' It now remains to examine whether
Italian unity, which is the only good solution, is
not the only possible one. It is necessary. I am
convinced that menace would not be sufficient, and
that force must be employed. Look for a moment
at the mad and absurd hypothesis of an armed
intervention in Italy—you will have against
you the Italians, and next England. And how
will Sicily be governed ? England will take
possession of her, for you will have given her a
right to do so. And by doing that you will not
have satisfied Austria, for if she detests Italy
there is something which she hates still more, and
that is the influence and the strength of France.
There will therefore remain for us the prayers of
some bishops, and the sympathies of the soldiers
of Castelfidardo. I, for my part, prefer the sup-
port of the conquerors of Magenta and Solferino.
Be assured that the unity of Italy must be accom-
plished, Rome will not resist; public opinon is
very clearly fixed on that point; and will the
Senate be less liberal than the Prussian Parlia-
ment, which has been guided in the expression of
its sympathies for the Italian cause by an anti-
Austrian feeling, and for that reason favourable to
France ? In order to touch on all questions, there
is a painful name which I must now pronounce—
Venice. (Movement.) I am anxious to say nothing
that may compromise the policy of my country
in Italy ; but the situation of Venice is one of the
greatest misfertunes of modern times. But any
inopportune attempt would be deplorable. The
part of Italy is to develop her force, organise her
army, and when the moment shall have arrived
she may, with the understanding of France, again
demand Venice. This is what there is to be done,
and'h. euarantee for such conduct is the wisdom
which the people of Italy has shown miring late
events. Where can a people be found who, after
so many centuries of oppression, have shown them-
selves so worthy of liberty ? France is certainly a
great nation, but in such a situation everything
would have been
overturned. In order to encou-
rage this wise conduct Italy must be supported by
good counsels from the tribune, and from all the
organs of public opinion. That will give her con-
fidence. (Approbation.) What will Italy do when
she shall have consulted universal suffrage—that
suffrage the results of which are now disputed by
those who, after having been its adversaries, now
show themselves such scrupulous guardians of it ?
Montesquieu said that all nations have the Govern-
ment which they merit. When France was con-
sulted by universal suffrage she said what she
wished for. We were then without power, without
support ; the Government were in the hands of a
General, an honourable General (movement), who
was hostile to us. You know what the reply of uni-
versal suffrage was then, and it will be the same
in Italy. Much has been said about the domina-
tion of Piedmont and of her conspiracies. How
does she conspire when every one is of the same
mind, and when the unity of Italy has been the
feeling of every heart for ages ? (Sensation.) When
the Italian Parliament shall have decreed that Vic-
tor Emmanuel is King of Italy, what will take
place? Italy will demand a capitol, and will say
that Europe cannot interfere, for that noninter-
vention is its public law. The true basis of the
liberty and independence of Italy is the buckler of
non-intervention ; let Rome be given to Italy, and
her unity is secured. (Murmurs.) Have I not a
right to approve the conduct of the Emperor when
it is so firm, and at a moment when coalition was
talked of in connexion with the interview at War-
saw ? It is the firm conduct of the French Go-
vernment under those circumstances which secured
peace, and that boldness constitutes its glory.
(Approbation.) There now remains the question
of the application of the Papal power. Certainly
the Pope must preserve his independence and can-
not become the subject of a new Sovereign. This
constitutes the great difficulty of the question of
Rome, but it is not impossible to solve the problem.
The Pope is the Spiritual Head of the Church ;
could he not reside at Rome with an amount of in-
dependence which would make him neither the
chief nor the subject of any one ? The geographi-
cal situation of Rome, divided by the Tiber into
two perfectly distinct cities, one the Catholic city
and that of the Vatican on the right bank, and the
other on the left, appears to offer a solution. Is it
impossible to secure the independence of the Pope
in one of those cities by giving him a garrison, and
securing to him a budget guaranteed by all the
Powers ? The Pope, thus surrounded by the vene-
ration of Christianity, with a special jurisdiction,
and with his own flag, would preserve all his inde-
pendence. (Murmurs.) Rome would become, as it
were, the sanctuary and the oasis of Christianity.
It will, I know, be said that these are chimeras;
but many things which have been designated as
such have been realised during the last three years.
When a difficulty presents itself it is in vain to
hope to put it off, for it must be solved. We
are in presence of Italian unity ; that must either be
accepted, or the policy of M. de Larochejaquelein
adopted—and the latter course would necessarily
lead to diaasters. lam anxious that the words
with which his people formerly received the Pope
should not be forgotten. They were ' Courage,
Holy Father.' Let France, who is full of respect
and sympathy for the Sovereign Pontiff, say to him
in her turn, Wisdom, Holy Father.' I wish for
those words to come from the Senate, which con-
tains his devoted sons ; and the Emperor's Govern-
ment, inspired with the words of our forefathers,
will say to him, Do what you ought, come what
may.' (Movement and loud approbation.)"
The debate was continued on Saturday.
Cardinal Mathieu, after stating that Prince Napo-
leon's speech was, in his opinion, a complete denial
of all principles hitherto acknowledged, wished to
know whether it was to be taken as the expression
of the views of the Government.

M. Billault (Minister), in reply, stated that no
one had the right to speak in the name of the Go-
vernment except those who were its official and
recognised organs. M. Billault then entered into
an elaborate defence of the policy of the French
Emperor, passing in review the recent events in
Italy : _

" It is the policy of the Emperor (said M. Billault)
never to act alone when common interests are at
stake, but to come to an understanding with the
other great Powers. This is the true secret for
preserving the peace of the world. . . We

* In the official part of the Wiener Zeitung it is said that
Baron Vay was not present at the final consultations, and,
being absent, " could not sign the Imperial patent."
t This paragraph proves that the Minister of State thinks
the Hungarians will refuse to send representatives to the
Reichsrath,