The Sun.
London, England, 1857-06-06 00:00:00

SOUND DUES.

On the motion for the House going into committee
on the Sound Dues,
Mr. LIDDELL rose to call the attention of the house
to the subject of the Dani-h transit dues. He said that
he was not opposed to the general scheme proposed fur
the redemption of the Sound dues. He believed that
those dues had long been the subject of great vexatio❑
and annoyance to our mercantile marine, the detentio❑
of our vessels at Elsinore being attended with difficuLy
and danger ; and he believed that it was desirable that
an arrangement for the redemption of the dues should b 3
sanctioned by the house, and although it might be said
that the house ought not to be called to pay a sum of a
million and a half for such a purpose, that argument had
no weight with him as compared with the advantages to
be derived to our valuable commerce with the Baltic.
But another important matter was involved in this
question, and that was the transit dues levied by
the Danish Government on goods conveyed on the in-
tersecting lines of railways in Denmark. Those dues
were first levied in 1838 on the Hamburg and Lubeck
line. It was first proposed that they should be levied by
weight, at the rate of 9d. for every 100:bs. weight ; but
the city of Lubeck remonstrated, and Denmark imposed
a duty of 4,12 d. on every 100Ibs. The present proposition
wee that four•fifths of the dues should be remitted.
When they were first levied there was a clear under-
standing that they should be levied for the protection of
the Sound revenue. When the house was called on to

votea large sum in order:to sweep away the Sound dues
they should consider whether it was not desirable to ,et
rid of the whole of the dues connected with them. The
main Danish line over which British commerce passed
was the Flensburg Railway, over which three millions'
worth of goods were annually conveyed. The number of
tons on which duty was paid was 17,000 tons, and the
amount of duty was 1,012/. Reduce that by four-fifths,
and 2001. was the amount which Denmark would receive
for these transit dues under the new proposal. Even if
you doubled the amount of commerce, the dues would
only amount to 4001., and theredemption of it at 15years'
purchase would be only 6,4001. That ought to be paid,
in order at once to get rid of this small item of dues. But
it was not merely the duty which was complained of, it
ryas the delay and restriction of trade which its being
levied caused. The feeling against it was very strong,
nO t2nt; in Lubeck, but all the llanseatic cities. Toe
tariff. laid down by Denmark was also not a fair one, for
Russian articles of raw produce, such as hemp, flax, and
tallow, Were
Rtxtinpt from duty on these lines of railway;
and it
was ulb?:.ed to be justified on the ground that
the Emperor ofr
%,.ussia was entitled to exemption in his
character of heir
Gott.,
r.tout:lie throne of Denmark as Duke 01
adsaid there was a strong feeling
ak.!aiiist theso dues thlu uanseatie towns, and he coulA
also state that there Wag a
Denmark itself, as appeared by feeling
against
them
in
which y at report ol the Imperial
C ablei) etcoi l of
remove Pen Denmark, kw,
in
e of thiosweatil stated to be desir
waitule,s,iparticularly as I
this source of revenue had lost its
importance, in
c.,,,,w(leance of the treaty which hail just'b%e,invcorne to. Ile
anticipated that two answers would be
ar-
guments by her Majesty %, Government. 6 _e,u to his t
irz,t, that a
great number of states were parties to the convention
which had been entered into, and that any advaot
age to
ho
derived friti, the abolition of these cases must be
rived by thew all ; and al-o that it was not worth wbil't;
on.aceumit of this small sum to re-open the
whae oi
this great question and endanger the SUCCCSS of the
entire scheme. Now, as to the first point he cool say
that we were going to pay Denmark for the abolition of
t other doss, and he only proposed that she should be
paid for the doing away of these small ones, the real
evil being the delay and vexation caused by the necessity
of declaring goods on transit. With regard to eradan-
g ring the success of the whole scheme, the position of
Denmark should be considered ; for she had been forced
into giving up the Sound dues, which she would not
have done but for the chance of a war with the United
States or some other power. ;There was a precedent for
. the house pausing before they sanctioned the convention
which had been entered into, and asking Denmark- to
give up this small amount of dues. In the reoent case
of a convention with France on the subject of the New-
fclindland fisheries, the convention was allowed to fall 1

to the ground by her Majesty's Government, on the
ground that the colony objected to it. The hon. gentle-
man referred to memorials which were contained in a
correspondence, for which he bad moved, from the
Northern Navigation Company, and another company
as well as 62 firms engaged in the Baltic trade, in which
it was urged that the abolition of these dues should be
made a condition of the convention. After complaining
that a letter contained in that correspondence addressed
to the Treasury in February last had not been noticed
until after the convention was signed on the 14th March,
but was only sent to the Foreign-office on the Bth May,
the very day he moved for the correspondence, the hon.
gentleman concluded by urging that this, the only occa-
sion on which there would be an opportunity of getting
rid of these dues, should be taken advantage of, and
Denmark compelled to remove all obstacles to commerce
in the Baltic:
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
hon. gentleman had taken occasion, on the motion that
the Speaker do leave the chair, to bring forward his
views on one article of the treaty which was about to be
brought under the notice of the house, and he (the Chan-
csllor of the Exchequer) thought that it would be the
most convenient course it he postponed any remarks on
the subject till the house was in committee, when he
would have an opportunity to explain the general state
of the question, and to state the grounds on which the
the article in question had been agreed to. He begged
to move that the Speaker do leave the chair.
Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORS though it would be more
convenient if the right hon. gentleman had furnished the
I house with the information asked, when they were
about to vote away so large a sum as 1,120,010/. It
might be the opinion of the house that the subject
should go no further. He had himself a strong opinion
against the proposed arrangement.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
was prepared to state his views on the question to the
house before he called on them to agree to a resolution
for a grant of money. He proposed that the house
should go into committee, and then he would go into a
statement of the whole question.
The house then went into committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that although an arrangement with respect to a re-
demption of the Sound dues had been voluntarily con-
cluded by the ritieb government with the government
of Denmark, it was nevertheless true that it was a sub-
ject to the consideration of which her Majesty's Govern-
merit bad come in a manner somewhat independent of
its volition. The question was first raised by the go-
vernment of the United States. Two years ao the
United States objected to the legality of the Sound
dues, and would not consent that their vessels should
pay the dues which for centuries bad been levied in the
Sound. The consequence of this refusal was that ne-
gotiations of an unfriendly nature were entered into
between the President of the United States and the
King Of Denmark, which ended in Denmark refusing to
remit the Sound dues to American vessels. The govern-
ment of Denmark then set itself to consider whether
means could not be found for the voluntary extinction
of the Sound dues, and in the course of the year 1856 a
congress of delegates assembled at Copenhagen to ar-
range the terms on which the dues should be redeemed.
The governments which were represented at the con-
gress considered the question, but for some time were
unable to agree on the terms. The congress began
to sit in the autumn of 1855, and in the spring
of 1856 a proposition was submitted to the Britis
government for the payment of a gross sum for the
redemption of the Sound dues. At that time the
treaty of peace with Russia was under negotiation,
and it was uncertain how long we should continue to be
engaged in an expensive conflict, and her Majesty's Go-
vernment, while recognising the importance of the ex-
tinguishment of the Sound dues, with reference to our
trade in the Baltic, yet for financial reasons felt no eager-
ness to adopt the arrangements, and their first answer
to the proposition was therefore unfavourable. The com-
mittee would find on reference to the correspondence on
the Sound dues, moved for in the last session, that by a
letter of Lord Clarendon to Mr. Buchanan of 23d March
1156, the proposition of the Danish Government was in
the first instance not favourably received. He men-
tioned this for the purpose of showing that her Majesty's
Governmentdid not entertain this question withany heat
or eagerness, or enter into any arrangement precipitately,
but that they gave it a calm, cool, and protracted conside-
ration. The matter was to be considered in conjunction
with other powers, and after peace was made with Russia
that country, with other powers, signified her acceptance
of like terms offered by Denmark to herand other powers.
The acceptance by a first-class power like Russia and that
of other powers, altered the position of England with re-
gard to the question, as it was obvious that there wool
be disadvantages to our trade if our vessels were subject
to the Sound dues, and the vessels of other nations were
free. The matter was accordingly reconsidered, and the
altered position of this country on the return of peace,
and the disadvantage under which this country would
labour if there was a partial redemption of the Sound
dues, induced her Majesty's Government to determine to
bring the subject under the consideration of the House of
Commons. Nearly at the end of the last session he moved
for the appointment of a committee to consider the ques-
tion of the Sound dues, and that committee examined
Mr. Buchanan and several other competent witnesses on
the subject. The Sound dues were proved to be oppres-
sive to our trade, not merely from the amount levied
upon the vessels, but also on account of the various in-
cidental charges following them, and the detention of
the vessels at the Sound for the necessary purpose of
levying the dues. The committee in their reportstated it
was a matter of much complaint that those charges
which were only incidental to the payment of the
dues exacted by the Danish government amounted in
some cases to double the amount of the dues them-
selves ; that the dues properly so called amounted only
to one-fourth of the charges for which the owners of
cargoes were made Lable, and that the burden thus im-
posed on British commerce amounted to between
200,000/. and 300,0001. That was a strong argument
in favour of a redemption of the dues, and if the sum on
which the redemption was calculated was only 70,000/.
a year, it was clear that such a bargain must be advan-
tageous to the commerce of this country. (Hear, hear,)
But in addition to the complaint arising from the
amount levied, there was a much stronger complaint re-
specting the loss caused by the detention of the vessels
at Elsinore for the purpose of levying the dues. Some
of the witnesses declared that the evils arising from de-
tention were greater than the evils arising from the
amount collected. On that point the committee said—
the Sound dues, as they are levied at present, contain in
them what is most objectionable, and are most unfair in
their operation ; they occasion great loss of time and
much needless loss of expenditure in the collection of a
small revenue, and tend to impede important branches
of trade • and the commitfee further declared that they
had no hesitation in saying that the dues were the cause
of annoyance and injury to British commerce, and they
therefore deemed it advisable that they should be
abolished. (Hear, hear) Adverting to the negotiations
which were then pending, the committee recommended
that the proposal made by the Danish government to
the governments of different states interested in the
navigation of the Baltic should receive immediate con-
sideration, and become the foundation of a final and
satisfactory settlement of the question. Acting on that
report, her Majesty's Government thought the most ex-
pedient course they could adopt would be to entertain
the proposal of Denmark ; and accordingly, soon after
the prorogation of Parliament last year, they communi-
cated to the Danish government their willingness to
accede to the principle of a capitalisation of the Sound
dues—namely, redemption for a fixed sum of money,
the payment to depend on the ultimate decision of Par-
liament, the arrangement of the Government being
one of a provisional nature. The negotiations con-
tinued, and after the original amount demanded
had been diminished, her Majesty's Government ac-
ceded to the arrangement, which the Government of
Russia bad in the first instance agreed to, and which the
other powers of Europe ultimately adopted—namely,
the payment of 30,476,325 rix-dollars, by different
States, Great Britain paying one-third of the whole
amount ; Russia nearly the same amount ; Prussia,
4,430,000 rix-dollars ; Austria, France, the Hanseatic'
Towns, and other parties to the arrangement contribut-
ing their various proportions. Her Majesty's Govern.
ment thought they could not fairly adopt the course
taken by the United States. Those States were not par-
ties to the international law of Europe, and therefore
stood in a different position from this country. It was
not for him to say how far the objections of the United
States were well founded, or whether the ground they
took was justifiable according to the- law of nations.
However that might be, her Majesty's Government con-
sidered themselves precluded from the adoption of such
a course. England was a part of the European family
of nations, and had been a party to treaties which clearly
recognised the Sound dues. A treaty was concluded
between Great Britain and Denmark in July, 1670, in
the reign of Charles the Second, which was renewed in
1810 by the treaty of Kiel, which treaty declared that
the duties for passing through the Sound should be paid
according to the printed tariff or book of rates—that
book of rates having been agreed to between Denmark
and France in 1645. There wag, therefore, no reason
to doubt that the Sound duce were regularly paid ex-
cept at the time when we were at war with Denmark.
But in the year 1841 the dues were revised, and in many
instances reduced, and a convention was signed in Lon-
don by Lord Palmerston introducing a new tariff of
Sound dues. Nothing could be more plain than that this
country was bound clearly by a recognition of the le-
gality of those payments. Iler Majesty's Government,
therefore, came to the conclusion that if Denmark did
not voluntarily abandon thesis dues, but was ready to
give them for a pecuniary payment, unless an agree-
ment could be made with Denmark for a voluntary re-
demption, they must continue to be paid by British
vessels navigating the Sound. Under these circum-
stances, and 'oohing at the general assent which
had been given by the great northern Powers to the
arrangement proposed, they felt justified in signifying
the acceptance of the terms. But before those terms
were finally accepted, an attempt was made in concert
with Prussia to come to an other arrangement, by which
the detention of vessels sit Elsinore would have been
prevented by levying the toll at the ports of departure
and arrival in the 11 title. It appeared, however, that
the plan, which had been suggested by Prussia, could
not be carried out, and then nothing remained but to
agreet to the terms proposed by Denmark, or to refuse
let?toinoec.nlituesriboiennrt o
„atr
that Trt,aBn
would
arrangement.. tr.b After a long consider-
btryadepeonfmatrhkein bmeentbenaerfiricviaedl toat theth e
icea(f:lnuonuttriytingto
ipnayEtnhgelishsunctursrteinpcuylatetod
sum, Denmark
ark
had agreed
of the payment of that
leviedsetdi
tiutnti
otthhee fullest manner to ex-
tinguish the dues
lighthouses and other to maintain
foSound;oenlvieednience
theof
commerce, and to reduce the dues c
lines of cemmunication in the Danishtes territory, on
ld
leadi„,4 into 010 13,0 tic, by four-fifths of the linooruyn't acol-
lected. That queetion was out embraced its the ceigit al

negotiations, which were confined entirely to the Sound
dues. The importance of the remission or reduction of
the transit dues, however, was brought under the notice
of the house by the report of the committee, and our
minister at Copenhagen was instructed to make the
concession of those dues a part of the negotiation. More
difficulty was experienced on that point than on any
other, and the consideration of the question led to a
crisis in the Danish capital and the resignation of some
of the members of the Government. He had mentioned
this fact for the purpose of showing that the Bt itish Go-
vernment considered the reduction of the transit dues a

sine qua non. The Danish Government, however,
considered it inconsistent with the dignity of
the King and the independence of the coun-
try to give up those dues. Now, provided it could
have been established that the transit dues were levied
merely to protect the dues at Elsinore, the re-
mission of those dues would have fairly entered into the
negotiations for the redemption of the Sound dues. But
there was great difficulty in proving that fact, and the
utmost admission made by the Danish government was
that to some extent the transit dues possessed that cha-
racter ; but they said they had conceded as much as we
were entitled to demand, and that those dues formed a
portion of their revenue which no foreign government
had the right to question. It was not the function of
the British or any government to criticise the ways and
means of Denmark, and the right of the government of
that country to impose such taxes upon the people as
might be necessary, and so far as these tolls were
merely sources of revenue levied on the internal traffic
of the country, they were beyond the purview of the
negotiation. t was said that the amount of the transit
duty was net objected to. Why that was giving up the
strength of the whole case. Ile trusted that the com-
mittee would consider that her Majesty's government
had obtained as fair terms as they were entitled to with
respect to the transit dues. Looking to the whole of
the arrangements—looking to the importance of pre-
venting a hostile collision between the United States
and Denmark—looking to the importance of redeeming
these dues, and freeing our vessels not only from the
dues paid by our vessels, but from the incidental
charges following in their train—looking to the neces-
sity of preventing the detention of our ships at Elsinore
—and finally, looking at the fact, that four-fifths of the
transit dues across the Danish peninsula had been con-
ceded, he trusted the committee would virtually ratify
the treaty which had been entered into. All the con-
tracting parties, including amongst others, England,
France, Austria, Prussia, Russia, Belgium, Meck-
lenburg, Oldenburg, the Netherlands, Sweden, were
satisfied that the terms were fair and reasonable,
and be trusted the committee would approve of the
discretion which the government had exercised.
There was one other point to which ho wished
to call the attention of the committee, namely, the pro-
visional arrangement which had been made with respect
to the payment of such a large sum of money. No other
course could have been adopted which would have left
the hands of Parliament more free or more unfettered in
the conclusions to which they might think proper to
come. If the power of making treaties were vested in
Parliament, still it would be necessary to confide to a
Minister at a foreign court a discretionary power to nego-
tiate the details of those treaties. In the present case,
although the ratifications had been exchanged, no final
arrangements for fulfilling the treaty could be completed
without the consent of Parliament. (Hear, hear.) The
treaty was intended to take effect from the Ist of April ;
but a protocol was signed by which the Danish Govern.
Trent agreed to take bonds provisionally from vessels
passing the Sound after the Ist of April, on the under-
standing that the dues were not to be exacted if Parlia-
ment should ratify the treaty. A separate convention
had been entered into with the Danish Government, by
which the British Government undertook to pay the
amount agreed upon at once, within three months after
the assent of Parliament had been obtained. Ile would
state why the Government had preferred that arrange-
ment. The time fixed by the treaty was twenty years ;
but they considered it much better to pay the amount
down than to agree to a terminable annuity of twenty
years, and accordingly an arrangement had been made
with the Bank of England, by which they were willing,
in case it should be required, to advance the sum imme-
diately on a terminable annuity of thirty years, at an
annual charge of 64,7001., or an annuity of thirty-five
years at 60400141. Now, when he made his finan-
cial statement in February, he stated the esti-
mated income at 71,885,0001., and the estimated
expenditure at 78,000,0001. ; and he calculated that
the improvement in the balances at the end of the
financial year would be, as compared with the balance
at the end of the previous financial year, 1,384,000/.
The actual income had turned to be 72,334,0001.; being
an excess over his estimate of 449,0001. ; and the amount
of expenditure was 76,588,0001., being 1,412,0001. below
his estimate. Taking the excess upon the income and
the deficit, if he might so call it, upon the expenditure,
There was a sum of 1.861,000/, in farmer of the public.
The result was that the balance in the Exchequer, in-
stead of being 1,384,0001. was :,645,000/., showing the
amount to be 1,861,0001. larger than he had calculated
upon. In the estimate he had made he had included
2,000,0001. for the payment of Exchequer Bonds falling
due in May. Teat 2,000.0001. had been paid off. After
even that large payment there would be a large balance
in the exchequer, owing partly to the circumstances he
had mentioned, and partly to the tact of the fall in the
duty on tea haying caused the payment of a large por-
tion of those duties to be withheld in the quarter ending
the let of April, and which had been paid since. Teat
payment fell into the ways and means of this year in-
stead of the preceding year ; and, taking all the circum-
stances into consideration, he did not fee! justified at the
present moment in asking for any borrowing power;
and he proposed, therefore, that the whole of this sum
should be paid out of the balances in the exchequer. It
would be possible, no doubt, to create a loan in the nature
of terminable annuities, which would impose a charge of
60,0001., or 64,0001., for either 30 or 35 years, at the end
of which time the debt would be extinguished, and if
that arrangement were adopted, provision might be made
for the payment of that annual sum by a special customs
duty upon the articles imported from the Baltic, calcu-
lated to produce a sum ofan equal amount. That was a plan
which the government had carefully considered, and no
doubt some arguments might be adduced in favour of it ;
but it seemed to him to proceed, to a great extent, on
an assumption which was of very doubtful validity,
namely, that the Sound dues were a charge on persons
engaged in the Biltic trade, whereas it appeared to him
that they must be considered as ultimately falling on the
consumer in this country. They were an addition to
the charges of navigation through the Sound. Mer-
chants engaged in that trade no doubt obtained the
average profits upon their capital. They were subject to
occasional losses owing -to capricious detention of ves-
sels, and he had no doubt they frequently suffered beyond
what they might fairly reckon upon ; but still it did
appear to him that whatever inconveniencies were sus-
tained and losses suffered in consequence of the Sound
dues, they all ultimately fell upon the consumer in this
country. If that were the case, would any particular
benefit arise from imposing duties upon tallow, timber,
corn, or other articles imported from the Baltic, with a
view to indenenty the nation for the sum laid out to pro-
cure exemption from the Sound dues ! It appeared to
him that the amount, if it were raised by means of ter-
minable annuities of 60,0001. would hardly justify the
imposition of a class of special customs duties on the
articles to which he bad referred, and it was not his in-
tention to make any such proposition to the hou e. At
the same time, if the house had any insuperable objection
to making this charge on the general revenue of the
country—if they concluded that those who used arti-
cles of such general consumption as the exports from
the Baltic were not benefitted by the remission from the
Sound dues, it would be competent for them to resort to
the contrivance he had alluded to. It was not his in-
tention to propose it, but he had thought it necessary to
mention it, in order to show it had been under the con-
sideration of Government. He was afraid be had de-
tained the housa at considerable length, but he thought
it due to them to lay before them the terms on
which the arrangement had been made. The grounds
of it had been carefully considered, and notwithstand-
ing the magnitude of the sum by which this benefit
had been purchased, nevertheless he could scarcely
doubt that upon a careful investigation of the subject the
committee would come to the conclusion that the bene-
fit was of the greatest importance to the commerce of the
country ; that it would remove harassing restrictions on
an important branch of their trade and navigation ; and
although the price that they gave was considerable,
nevertheless it was not larger than tke value of the ex-
emption which they purchased. He thought they should
be consulting the lasting and solid interest of the trade
and navigation of the country by authorising the Crown
to complete the arrangement which had been provision-
ally entered into. He moved that a sum of 1,125,2061.
be. granted for the purpose of giving compensation to
Denmark the remission of the Sound dues.
Mr. WEGUELIN congratulated the Government
upon the conclusion of this important question in so sa
tisfactory a manner. The loss arising from the payment
of these dues formed not the only ground of complaint
on account of them. On the average, every vessel trading
in the Baltic was detained on account of the Sound
dues ; and taking into consideration loss of wind, and
other accidents consequent upon such detention, three
days on her voyage were lost, and there was a conse-
quent loss of three days' interest upon the amount of
property in the vessels, which amounted to a consider-
able sum. He should have been glad to have heard
more of the general ptinciplo 011 which the amount of
compensation payable by this country hail been arrived
at. With regard to the transit dues for goods carried
by railroad through Denmark, he thought the right hon.
gentleman had laid down the correct principle. There
was one subject to which he wished particularly to call
attention. The alter tr and others at Elsinore who wore
employed in the collection of the Sound dues would
have their livelihood completely swept away when their
present offices were abolished, and ho thought there
ought at least to be some expression on the part of the
Government of this country in favour of their receiving
compensation from the Danish Government.
ERAMLEY-IVIOORE maintained that in this
instance they were:called upon. to vote away 1,125,0001
on insufficient grounds. As a member of the committee
upon the Sound dues, he could say most distinctly that
the evidence went to show the principal complaint was
of the detention of vessels, and not the payment of the
dues. ,;,He held the present bargain to be essentially a
bad one, for we had a sum. of 1,125,000/. at stake, and
what was the object ? was to redeem a passing toll
of 70,0001. per annum. All experience went to show
that we had a diminishing trade in the Baltic—that cur
tonnage and exports had diminished, In 1819, British
vessels to the number of 6,846 passed the Sound, and in
1853 only 4,G65 British vessels passed, showing a falling
off of 2,181. In 1849, 1,356 Russian vessels passed the
Sound, and in 1853, 3,472. Of ships belonging to Nor-
way and Sweden, 5,013 passed the Sound in 1849, while
in 1853 there were 5,387. Of vessels belonging to the
Haute Towns, 311 passed in 1849, and in 1853 the num-
bers were 743. Our exports had decreased in a similar