The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-12 00:00:00

wooden ships covered with iron. I believe the best ships
will be found to be those which are built of, as well as
covered with, iron. Ours are iron shipswith two coverings
—one of teak 26 inches thick, and one of iron 41 inches
thick. That is how the Warrior is built, and I have no
doubt it will offer great resistance to shot and shell. Com-
plaints have been made that the Admiralty are going on
buying large quantities of timber. We must do so, and
especially we must continue to purchase consider able quan-
tities of teak, if we persist in building our ships with teak
coverings. Teak, I need hardly say, is the best timber
for that purpose, because it is of all woods the least liable to
decay. 1 hope I have made a satisfactory statement in
answer to the remarks of the noble earl.
The Earl of CARNARVON—The noble duke has said
nothing of the two ships built at Toulon for Italy, or of the
two more which are ordered.
The Duke of SOMERSET—I cannot say what is doing
in the French dockyards. I know there was an iron cased
ship built for the Sardinian Government in France, but I
believe it was built, not in any Government dockyard, but
by a private trader at Marseilles. I know nothing of the
second ship, but the noble earl may be correct in his state-
ment. All I can say is, that in the fact that iron-cased
ships have been, and are being, built for Italy and Spain, I
see no great cause for alarm. It is very natural that other
Powers should desire to advance as well as France and
England, and we have no reason for believing that either
the Italian or• the Spanish ships are meant to attack us.
(Hear, hear.) At the same time, it is our duty—and espe-
cially the duty of the Admiralty—to watch the progress
that is making, to follow our own course, and to make such
preparations for maintaining the maritime position of this
country as may seem to be necessary. For that lam quite
prepared. (Hear, hear.) The noble earl, in referring to
the works going on at Malta, thought it expedient to go
back six or seven years. What has been brought to my
notice since I have been at the Admiralty with respect to
Malta is that we want more harbour accommodation there
—not merely dock accommodation, but accommodation in
the harbour for our vessels. On that subject I communi-
cated with my noble friend at the head of the Colonial-
office, and also with the local government at Malta. The con-
clusion we came to was that the Imperial Government and
the local Government should each pay half the expense of
deepening the upper part of the Great Harbour at Malta, that
the merchant vessels should be put in that portion of the
harbour, and that the lower part should be given to us as
the place most convenient for our fleet. We have sent out
vessels to dredge the upper part of the harbour accordingly,
and operations are now in progress for proving increased
accommodation for our large ships. The noble earl says
that in the event of war the French fleet after a battle would
go back to Toulon, while we eould not repair our ships at
Malta. That certainly is so. The French have great ad-
vantages over us in the Mediterranean, because Toulon
affords much more ample accommodation than we have at
Malta, even taking into account the two harbours there.
Beyond those two harbours, as every one acquainted with
the ground knows, it would be impossible to extend the
accommodation, and they will hardly suffice for the fleets
of England, if we must have great fleets in the Mediterra-
nean. There must be difficulties in that respect, but this
country has met difficulties before, and I have no fear that
wo shall be unable to meet and overcome them again.
(Hear.) At the same time, we have taken care to enlarge
the harbour accommodation. and the local Government has
met us in a generous spirit, having agreed to pay half the
expense. We are cutting out stones for making wharfs and
piers connected with the new works, and we have given
directions that those stones shall be taken from a place
which will eventually form a canal between the two har.
tours, isolating them from the houses and private property
in the neighbourhood. I have no doubt that the improve-
ments, when completed, will prove a great advantage, not
only to our vessels of war, but also to the local Government
and the inhabitants of Malta generally. The noble duke
concluded by urging their lordships to pass the bill, stating
that, although it repealed en Act which repealed former
Acts, it would not on that account have the effect of re-
viving those repealed Acts.
Earl GREY—I am sure your lordships must have heard
the statement of the noble duke with great satisfaction.
(Hear, hear.) For my own part, instead of finding fault
with the Admiralty for being too fond of change, I am
rather disposed to blame them for being too slow in adopt-
ing improvements. What I complained of two years ago
was, not that we were adopting new inventions, but that
when new inventions had been tried, and found to a great
extent successful, we still went on building ships of the line
which it was morally certain would never be used. I ob-
jected to that in 1850, and I think I was right in doing so.
I did not mean to censure the present Board of Admiralty,
because I was ignorant as to what they were about. We
have now heard from the noble duke what is the course he
is really pursuing. I believe that course is the proper one
—not to hurry on too rapidly with new inventions until
they have been fairly tried, but, on the other hand, when
there are newjnventions which hold out every prospect of
being successful, not to continue spending money in build-
ing vessels which in all probability will be useless ; to
make arrangements for the rapid creation, in case of neces-
sity, of a large force of that description of vessels which
will be most wanted and most serviceable, but not, under
the influence of panic, to proceed too fast in the construc-
tion of ships which will not be likely to answer. Let me
add tnat I was extremely glad to hear what the noble duke
stated with respect to gunboats and the smaller class of
vessels. IL i 3 übviously not wI t, In the rat, of no oT, Li a •
ordinary improvements which are constantly being made in
modern artillery, to build enormous ships in which a very
large number of men would be exposed to certain destruc-
tion. I think the smaller kind of vessels, armed witb Arm-
strong guns, will prove the most useful we could have; and
in a recent visit to Portsmouth nothing gave me so much
satisfaction as to see our fine fleet of gunboats in such a
state of preparation. In the event of any sudden attack
there is no force on which we could so safely rely as upon
these gunboats, armed with rifled guns. (Hear, hear.)
The bill was then read a third time and passed.
WILLS OF PERSONALTY BY BRITISH
SUBJECTS BILL.
The report of amendments was brought up and received
CUSTOMS AND INLAND REVENUE BILL.

Earl GRANVILLE moved the third reading of this bill.
The Earl of WICKLOW rose to call attention to the
hardships which the British papermaker would labour
under as long as difficulties were I heown in the way of the
importation of foreign rags. He found from the reports in
the public press that it had been stated by the gentleman
who had been mainly instrumental in carrying out the
commercial treaty with France, and when he had urged
upon the French Government the expediency of allowing
the free exportation of rags, the answer returned was that
they were then engaged in negotiating a commercial treaty
with Belgium, and until that treaty had been concluded
they could take no steps in the matter. The objection then
made upon the part of the French Government had, how-

ever, now no ground upon which to rest, inasmuch as he
found that the treaty between France and Belgium had
been concluded. He hop(d, therefore, her Majesty's Minis-
ters would be able to inform the house that further steps

had been taken with a view of obviating an injustice to
which the papermakers of this country were still subjected,
owing to the difficulty which lay in the way of their procur-
ing the raw material of their manufacture.

Earl GRANVILLE sail that urgent representations had
been made to the Governments of the various countries
from which rags were exported with respect to removing the
veryhigh duty ontheir exportation which at present existed.

The treaty to which the noble earl alluded as having been

concluded between Belgium and France gave, he believed,
considerably increased facilities in that respect, but he

hoped the Government would be in a position before long to

give some mere satisfactory assurance on the subject. A

point, perhaps, of even treater importance was, that there

should be a systematic collection of rags in this country--

an organisation in which he had been informed by an emi-

nent papermaker we were entirely deficient.
The bill was then read a third time and passed.

RAGGED SCHOOLS.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, in moving for a return
of the names of the witnesses who gave evidence respecting

ragged schools before the Education Commissioners, re

peated his complaints of the manner in which ragged schools
had been treated by the Commissioners.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE defended the commis-
sioners. They had merely stated that, in comparison with
the higher schools, they were not entitled to grants of pub-

lie money. The return would be a difficult one to obtain,
but if the noble earl particularly wished it, he would try to

get it.

The subject then dropped, on the understanding that al]
the information possible would be given to the noble ear]
on the subject.

Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock.
CONSOLIDATION OF THE CRIMINAL LAW.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL moved that the house
do go into committee on the bills on the paper relative to
the proposed consolidation, the whole being reported at the
resumptiim of the house at 6 o'clock.
Mr. AYRTON said that the first of these bills contained
a proposition of such magnitude that it had the effect on a
former occasion of changing the Government of the day.
He concurred in such a sitting as the present, but he hoped
the substantive questions the bills involved would be re-
served for a subsequent decision of the house.
OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON BILL.
This bill passed through :committee, with some slight
verbal amendments.