The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-25 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TIESDAY EVENING, JUNE 25, 1861.

i-AIPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—YESTERDAY.
Lord REDESDALE, Deputy-Speaker of the House of
Lords, took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock.
DEATH OF THE LORD CHANCELLOR.
Earl GRAN VILLE said he hoped it would not be
deemed presumptuous in him, as a friend and colleague of
the noble and learned lord who lately occupied the distin-
guished position on the woolsack•who had been taken from
the midst of them, and one who up to the last moment pre-
sided over their deliberations, to ask the house to agree to
a motion to adjourn, as a mark of respect and esteem to
the late noble and learned lord. The noble and learned
lord had met his colleagues at a Cabinet Council
on Saturday, and he (Earl Granville) had the
pleasure of meeting him again in the evening at
his own house, where he presided over the social circle
with his usual kindness. The noble lord on both occasions
appeared to possess his usual health, but death had come
suddenly upon him. He had attained a position of the
greatest eminence by his own industry and integrity,
which could not but be an encouragement to all, showing
what could be done by indefatigable industry and the
exercise of this power given by God. He hoped that their
lordships would:unanimously agree to the motion.
Lord BROUGHAM entirely agreed with the noble earl
the President of the Council. He dwelt with great earnest-
ness upon the eminent qualities of the late noble lord. He
(Lord Brougham) had sat with the noble lord on Friday
for nearly 11 hours, and during the whole of that pro-
tracted sitting the noble lord exhibited all his usual
acuteness, ability, and attention to the business
before them which had rendered him so distinguished.
Although it was almost superfluous he seconded the motion.
He apologised for having taken up their time, but he con-
sidered it right to speak on the melancholy occasion.
Lord ST. LEONARDS said no one could feel the loss
of the noble lord more than he did. The noble lord had
presided, with the dignity for which he was distinguished,
over their deliberations, and their lordships, he felt, were
fully sensible of the great loss which the coun-
try had sustained by his removal from amongst them
by the hand of death. He had long enjoyed the privilege
of the noble and learned lord's friendship, and - [The
noble and learned lord here became so affected that he could
not proceed further with his remarks, but with some diffi-
culty resumed his seat.]
The motion was agreed to.

Their lordships then adjourned.
There was a very large attendance of members of the
House of Commons at the bar in the space before the throne,
and in the different galleries of the house.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-YESTERDAY.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords' amendments to the following bills were con-
sidered and agreed to :—Bishop's Castle Railway, Clifton
Suspension Bridge, Downpatrick and Newry Railway, and
North-Western Railway (Cheshire Lines.)
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Bishop Stortford, Dunraow, and Braintree Railway,
Eastern Counties Railway, Leigh District Gas, and
Portsea Gas.
The following bills were considered and ordered for third
reading :—Alva Railway, Brecon and Merthyr Tydfil
Junction Railway (New Lines, &c.), Bristol Channel
Pilotage, Chard and Taunton Railway, Dublin Markets,
Grand Junction Water, Lambeth-bri lge, Llanelly Railway
and Dock (New Lines, &c.), London, Chatham, and Dover
Railway (Deviations, &c.), North British and Peebles Rail-
way Companies, Swansea Harbour Trust, Swansea Vale
Railway, Waveney Valley Railway, West Hartlepool Har-
bour and Railway (Capital, &c.), and Wivenhoe and
Brightlingsea Railway.
Several private bills, including the Eastern and Saffron
Walden Railway Bill, were read a second time.
PETITIONS.

Several petitions were presented in favour of the cultiva-
tion of cotton in India; against railway traffic and the con-
tinuance of the liquor trade on Sundays; in favour of the
restoration of the Galway subsidy; from various parts of
Ireland in favour of an alteration of the Irish poor-law ;
in favour of the Irish registration of birth, deaths, and
marriages, &c.

THE CASE OF THE REV. P. MACNAMARA.
Mr. MAGUIRE moved for a copy of correspondence in
reference to the case of the Reverend Patrick Macnamara,
Catholic chaplain of Glannamaddy, county Galway, in-
cluding the charge of forging or destroying voting papers,
as well as relating to his re-election to the office of chaplain
by the board of guardians of that union, and the refusal of
the commissioners to sanction such re-election, and to pay
for the services rendered by him up to the present time.—
Ordered.
THE SOUTH KENSINGTON MUSEUM.

Lord W. GRAHAM asked the Vice-President of the
Committee of Council on Education whether the buildings
for schools and residences at South Kensington Museum,
for which a vote of £15,000 was proposed in the Education
Estimates, were to be erected after the plan designed by
Captain Fowke, which plan included the commencement of
an ornamental architectural elevation, thereby deciding the
style of architecture to be adopted for the whole of the
buildings.
Mr. LOWE, in reply, read a paragraph from the report
of the committee in question, which was to the effect that,
though they did not pledge themselves to the detail of
Captain Fowkes's plan, still they considered it satisfied all
that was required. If the vote were granted, however, it
would not bind the house to any particular style of archi-
tecsure for the proposed building.
COURTS OF JUSTICE BUILDING.

Lord J. MANNERS asked the Atterney-General
whether, in the event of the Courts of Justice Building Act
(Money) Bill being read a second time, he would refer the
question of site for the buildings to a select committee.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that there was an
entire unanimity with respect to the subject of the build-
ings, with the exception of persons holding house property
in Lincolns-inn•fields. The committee were all agreed as
to the site, and, under the circumstances, he felt bound to
proceed with the bill this evening, and he hoped it would
be advanced a stage.
THE LOCOMOTIVE STEAM ROAD CARRIAGE.
Mr. GRIFFITH asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department whether his attention had been called to
an accident in the Hampstead road, caused by a locomotive
steam road carriage, which, in going along the road, re-
moving the debris from the old reservoir, snorting and
blowing-off steam, caused the horses of an omnibus to take
fright, rush on the pavement, and capsize the passengers,
breaking arms and legs, and doing shocking injury to the
passengers ; and whether he was of opinion that such loco-
motives could safely run in future on the public roads. ?
Sir G. C. LEWIS said he had received a report from the
commissioners of police on this subject, which was sub-
stantially as the accounts that appeared in the newspapers.
One person had his collar bone broken, and several persons
received injuries, but he believed no other accident occurred.
No doubt there was considerable danger arising from the
carriage road—greater at the point alluded to ; but in the
present state of the law, the only remedy would be by an
indictment for a nuisance.
REGISTRATION OF ROMAN CATHOLIC CHIL-
DREN AT THE SLIGO UNIONS.
In reply to Mr. MAcEvoy,
Mr. CARDWELL said that the children in question
were brought to the union by their paternal grandfather to
be registered, but at the time it was not understood at the
union that they were the children of Roman Catholic
parents. They had been ordered to be given up to their
paternal grandfather, and in adopting that course ho be-
lieved the guardians had complied with the law.
ADMISSION OF BRITISH SALT INTO FRANCE.
Sir J. PAKINGTON asked the President of the Board
of Trade whether any arrangements had yet been made
with the Government of France for the admission of Bri-
tish salt into that country; and, if not, whether there was
any probability of such arrangements being effected p
Mr. M. GIBSON said that an inquiry was going on in
France, by the French Government, which would lead to a
satisfactory arrangement.
THE CASE OF MR. KING HARMER.

Sir G. C. LEWIS begged to state, in reference to what
he had said the other night in reply to a question from the
hon. member relative to this gentleman, that he had received
a communication from Mr. Arnold, the magistrate before
whom Mr. Harmer was brought. Mr. Arnold said that he
had received no intimation from the police authorities that
they considered it was not necessary to lay a second infor-
mation against Mr. Harmer.

THE TROOPS FOR CANADA,
Sir J. FERGUSSON, on the motion for going into com-
mittee of supply, moved the adjournment of the house, in
order to enable him to draw attention to the recent aug-
mentation of the military force in Canada, and was pro-
ceeding to make some observations, when
Sir IL "WILLOUGHBY rose to order, and appealed to
the Speaker to bring on this question on the motion for
going into committee of supply.
The SPEAKER said, that strictly speaking, the hon.
baronet was not out of order, but he put it to the good sense
of the house whether it was desirable for an hon. member
to avail himself of his privilege, and impede the course of
public business. Hear, hear.)
Sir J. FE RGUSSON deferred to the opinion expressed
by the Speaker, and postponed his question.
THE EVICTIONS IN DONEGAL.
Mr. SCULLY moved an address to her Majesty, repro-.
pentiug that Mr. Adair, one of the justices of the peace for
the county of Donegal, had recently ejected the inhabitants
from a tract of land in that county, under circumstances
which might affect the general peace of the district, pray-
ing that ehe may direct an inquiry, with a view to consi-
der whether he should continue to hold her Majesty's
commission. The hon, member entered into a lengthened
detail of the manner is which Mr. Adair had become
connected with that portion of Ireland, and examina-
tion of the circumstances which led to the eviction
of: the people,
which Mr. Adair acted were declaring hbelief that the reasons upon
e A
warm discussion took groundless,
in which Mr. Conolly,
Mr. M`Mahon, Captain Jervis,
Mr. I. Butt, Mr. ongfield,
and Mr. Maguire L
took part.

Mr. CARDWELL said the question was, whether Mr.
Adair ought to have been removed from the commission of
the peace, Ho bad formorly expressed his opinion that no

case had been made out against him, and he remained of
that opinion still. Reviewing the facts, Mr. Cardwell jus-
tified the conclusion at which ho had arrived.
After a few words from Lord C. HAMILTON,
The motion was negatived without a division.
THE AUGMENTATION OF THE MILITARY
FORCE IN CANADA.

Sir J. FERGUSSON then rose to call attention to the
intended augmentation of the military force in Canada.
The matter, he said, was somewhat pressing, because from
information he had received since he came into the house it
appeared the troops were ordered to sail to. morrow. There
was something wanting explanation in the fact of so large
a reinforcement as 3,000 men being sent out, and in the
manner in which they were despatched. The fact that civil
war was unhappily imminent in the United States had
nothing to do with the question, for the house had clearly
expressed its opinion that abstinence from all discussion on
that difficult question was prudent and becoming. He
thought that the course Government was pursuing was very
i likely to interfere with that resolve. The force was being
despatched in hot haste in an ostentatious manner, in the
largest vessel that this country had ever possessed. It was
not sent out in the ordinary manner in transports belonging
to the public ser vice, but when it was known that the force
was sent out, it would be known all over Europe that it was
seat out in the Great Eastern. He asked Government on
what ground so large an expedition was being sent out and
so hastily despatched ? On former occasions, when Govern-
ment had sent out such a force, it had always been either to
guard against some foreign aggression or to put down some
internal disturbance in the colony ; but there was nothing in
the present state of affairs either in Canada or the United
States to justify such a step. The position of Canada was
certainly dangerous to a certain extent, because she had a
long and vulnerable frontier, and there was on the other
side of that frontier a great and spirited people in a very
excited state. At such a time, in a country like the United
States, where there was the utmost freedom in the expres-
sion of opinion, there was perhaps an exaggerated and
often an int emperate tone used by the writers in the public
press, and a disposition to look with jealousy on the conduct
of foreign powers, and expressions had certainly been used
by some of those writers which would haie been alarming in
any other country and at any other time, but he did not
think that .they called for such a proceeding as this. He
thought that, considering the great increase which had
taken place in the naval and military establishments of this
country, we were in a position to regard this language with
indifference. It might be said that the force sent out was
to guard the frontier, but the frontier would be much bet-
ter guarded by gunboats on the lakes and rivers than by a
few troops posted at great distances. But there was, besides
that, a feeling in this country, that beyond the troops for
garrisoning the great forts, this country ought not to be
called upon to contribute to the military expenditure of the
colony. If it were said that this force was only to reinforce
the garrisons, then he asked how was it that the force in
them should have been allowed to fall so low as to necessi-
tate the despatching 3,000 men from this country in such
hot haste ? Then there was a second class of causes which
might render it expedient to send out such a force, and that
was the existence or the prospect of internal disturbances.
In former times there were civil discords in Canada, but at
the present moment the feeling there was most loyal, and
the manner in which the Prince of Wales was received by
the Canadians showed the friendly disposition of the people
towards this country. It was not by so small a force as
3,000 men that they could hope to retain a hold of Canada,
but by the confidence of the people. But if Canada was
disposed to be hostile to the mother country, there could be
no more unfavourable time for manifesting any want of con-
fidence in the feeling of loyalty of the Canadian people. If,
as some supposed, there was a feeling in Canada to unite
with the people of the United States, it was not at a mo-
ment when the people of the Northern States of America
might be anxious to obtain compensation for their losses in
the South, that they should show a want of confidence in
the Canadians. Surely if any attempt of that kind were
made from the United States, there were militia and volun-
teers enough in Canada to defend the country till the regu-
lar troops arrived. There was this consideration also, that
it was exposing the troops sent out to great temptation. At
the present time every soldier was almost worth his weight
in gold, and it was a serious thing to place men in a position
of such temptation. He hoped that the men sent out would
at least have free rations, and be allowed to work at their
trades and in farming operations. He hoped the noble
lord would be able to give a satisfactory answer to these
questions.
Viscount PALMERSTON—Sir, I can have no difficulty
in answering the question of the hon. and gallant officer,
though I must say that I was surprised at some of the argu-
ments which he adduced—(hear,hear)—especially consider-
ing the profession to which he belongs. (Hear, hear.) I
should sot have expected those insinuations against the
army to have come from the mouth of a gentleman belong
ing to that service. (Hear, hear.) I entertain no such ap-
prehensions as he has expressed. lam persuaded that the
imputations which have been cast on the British soldier
are entirely unfounded. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and gal-
lant gentleman has asked several questions which he him-
self answered in subsequent parts of his speech. He talked
at one moment of this large expedition, this momentous
measure, and at another moment he treated the force sent
out of 3,000 men as insignificant and utterly insufficient for
any purpose. Now, I really should wish him to tell us
which of these two statements he intends to abide by;
whether he actually regards it as a momentous and large
force, or as a very small and insignificant one. He also
said there can be but two motives for which the force is des..
patched—viz., either to guard against an attack from the
Americans or to interfere in the war now going on, or else
for the purpose of suppressing disturbances in Canada.
The hon. and gallant gentleman has given a reply to all
these suppositions. He told us that there is no appre-
hension whatever of an attack from the Americans. He
has told us that the Government have pledged themselves
and the country to maintain a neutrality, and he
entered into a very eloquent and well-deserved panegyric
of the
.loyalty which prevails in every part of our
North American provinces. Well, I concur in all those
assertions. Undoubtedly, we have no reason to suppose
that the Northern States of America would commit such an
act of folly as to add a contest with us to the internal con
test in which they are at present engaged. Her Majesty's
Government have professed in the most solemn and public
manner their intention to abstain from taking any part in
the dispute now unfortunately subsisting between the
Northern and Southern States. We rely implicitly on the
loyalty of the people of Canada of all races—a loyalty that
was manifested in the most unequivocal manner during the
visit of the Prince of Wales to those provinces. Therefore,
none of those reasons could be the occasion for sending a
large force, the despatch of which would be a momentous
measure. But it is the ordinary practice of all Govern-
ments in all parts of the world, when war breaks out and

great military operations are commenced in neighbouring
States, to take the small and usual precaution of strength-
ening in some degree their military force in that portion of
their territory which is in closest proximity to the scene of
hostilities. That is an ordinary precaution, the neglect of
which would be blameable in those who are answerable for

,he interests of the country, and that we have not gone be

yond that reasonable limit is proved by the hon. and gal-
lant member's own description of this force in the latter part
of his speech as a very small one. It is a very small force;

and to talk of 3,000 men being a large and momentous ex.

peditiou is, I must say, an amount of exaggeration hardly
to have been expected from a military officer of so much
knowledge and experience as the hon. and gallant gentle-

man. (Hear, hear.) Well, if we have sent out only that
small reinforcement, which according to his own statement

was necessary in common prudence, because ho himsel

complained that the garrisons of Quebec and Montreal had
been brought down too low by former operations, then the
question arises whether they have been sent out at the pro-
per time and in the proper manner. The hon. and gallant
member admitted that reinforcements ought to be
despatched. He said it was impossible to leave those
garrisons the winter through as they have lately been, and
he added that reinforcements could not be sent out in winter,
butstu ummuse tgo in summer. Well, we are sending them out in
complain ,
?ancine dwthhyi n
gdoes
tthh
ee s
ahiodn.
certainlyand
a
surprised
gentleman
me. On former occasions we have heard complaints made
that troops have been provided with insufficient means of
gentle:
transport and have
on
the
equently sufferel hardships and been
detained too long
e, and the Government has
been blamed for such bad merits. But the complaint
gentleman
that
that we send out these
of the hon. and gallant
troops in one of the fastest vessels theta' be found; that
to insure their per-
fectwuehich too often re-
we send them out in ships large enohau
hasmvealelbvessels for
comfort, and to obviate those evils
, and
didlead the
re-
sult from the employment of numoro
such a purpose ; that, in point of fact, we
length of the voyage as much as we could
have despatched them in such a manner that theytwwilel
reach their destination with the least possible inconvenience
and suffering. Well, I should really have thought that a
military officer would have given us credit for that, instead
of making it a topic for censure. I have only now to say
that the measure we have adopted indicates no intention
whatever to take any part in the unfortunate differences
now prevailing among our relatives—for I may so call them
. .

—in the United States—that it indicates no suspicion
whatever of the true and undoubted loyalty of her Majesty's
subjects in our North American dominions—that it is de-
signed solely for the purpose of making those precautionary
movements which are essential in a country that is contigu-

ous to another country in which disturbances exist—that
we have carried it out in the manner best calculated to spare
the troops any inconvenience which a sea passage too often
produces; and that we trust that when they arrive in
Canada they will behave with that loyalty for which the
hon. and gallant member does not seem to give them credit,
but which I am persuaded the British soldier will on all oc.
casions exhibit. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. FERGUSSON wished to explain. The noble lord
had asked him whether he meant that the force was too
large or too small, as he had stated that it was both. What
he had said was that the force was too small for any serious
guarding of the frontier, but very large compared with the
ordinary establishment there.
Mr. DISRAELI—I am not at all surprised that my hon.
and gallant friend should call the attention of the house to
the departure of certainly a considerable body of troops
from this country. I should not, however, have risen, but
for the remarks of the noble lord, which were ingenious

enough as matters of Parliamentary reply, but which,
nevertheless, do not appear to be of so satisfactory a nature
as could be wished. Because, after all, what is the character
of this operation ? The noble lord has made a number of
observations in answer to those of my hon. and gallant
friend, but he has not once touched the real point—viz.,
the policy of that operation, which is really what at the
present moment engages the attention of the country. If
k those disturbances bad not taken place in the United States,
would these 3,000 men have been sent to Canada? That
is the question we are to consider—(hear)—and we cannot
be diverted from the real point by observations on the sea-
son of the year and all
.the other plausible superficialities
with which the noble lord has treated us. If the dis-
turbances had not taken place in the United States, I re-
peaMwould these troops have been sent from this country ?
If they are sent in consequence of the disturbances in the
United States, what are they sent for ? Is it to guard the
frontier or to increase the garrisons. If to guard the fron-
tier, are they sufficient for that object? If to increase the
garrisons, are they necessary? These are very plain ques-
tions, and I did not discover any satisfactory reply to them
in the speech of the noble lord. lam bound to say that I
view the step taken by the Government with great anxiety,
and that I cannot view it with approbation. It is a step of
very great importance. The noble lord says you cannot
call this an expedition. Well, there have been expeditions
not much more considerable in number sent from this coun-
try for very great objects,—for example, the expedition to
Portugal, which did not consist of more than 5,000 troops,
—and which are often referred to in this house as important
historical events. (Hear.) So the departure of these 3,000
men for Canada may hereafter occupy a much more impor-
tant place in history than the noble lord or any of his col-
leagues at the present moment contemplate. I must say
that I think it a very serious measure, and that the Go-
vernment have incurred a very grave responsibility indeed.
I do not, at this moment, clearly see what is the object of
the despatch of these troops. Dismissing from our minds
the disturbances in the United States, I do not see the ne-
cessity of that operation ; and if those disturbances are its
cause, then we have to consider an act of very grave policy
on the part of the Government. The noble lord will not
regard it in that light, but 1 am Lound to say, that if
brought before this house, it is our duty to regard it in
that light. It is possible, if these disturbances spread
and greatly prevail in the United States, that there may
be outrages on our Canadian frontier. I can conceive that
there may be violations of our frontier and acts of out-
rage committed by subjects of the American Government.
But are there no inhabitants in Canada—are there not a
numerous and gallant people there, accustomed to military
discipline ? And in a moment of excitement, with that
sense of responsibility which all free men have, the inhabi-
tants of Canada would be adequate to the occasion, would
be able to depend on their own energies, and would not re-
quire the despatch of these 3,000 troops to, set them an ex-
ample. (Hear, hear.) On the other hand, I should say
that, taking this early opportunity of letting the people of
Canada know that we are prepared to assume the monopoly
of defending them, is rather calculated to damp their energy
and make them feel that it is not their business to protect
their hearths and homes and national honour, and that they
may pursue their profitable callings without coming forward
in an exigency of this character. In that way I think this
proceeding very unwise. But supposing these disturbances
in the United States are not the cause of the despatch of
these troops, the step clearly was not necessary to strengthen
the garrisons. The garrisons were at that pitch of strength
at which, upon the whole, and after due experience, it was
the opinion of Parliament and of this country that they
should be maintained. The whole tone and tendency of our
policy of late years, and certainly in the present year, as
shown by a vote when Parliament first met, was that no in-
crease of military expenditure, especially in respect to our
colonies, should take place. (Hear, hear.) Put it as you
may, it comes to this—that this is an act of policy on the
part of her Majesty's Government. It can be viewed in no
other light than an aet of policy adopted in consequence of
the disturbances in the United States. But is that an act
of sound and wise policy ? I have very great doubts as to
its wisdom or its soundness ; and we must come to an
opinion upon the point in this manner. Every one will
dismiss immediately the idea that the transmission of 3,000
of her Majesty's troops is an adequate means for preventing
or baffling an invasion of Canada by the United States.
That is out of the question. Gallant as our troops are,
and little inclined as I am to believe that wo may lose their
services by other causes than the chances of war—although
I think my gallant friend was justified in alluding with
delicacy and reserve to what we know from experience
of the last disturbances in Canada was the unfortunate
result of the position of our army ; still, gallant as
our troops are, no one can pretend that such a force as
this could be sufficient to prevent or to defeat an invasion
of Canada by the United States. What is the fact ? It is an
act of policy. It has the appearance of a hostile act. What
will be its effect upon the temper of the Government and
people of the United States ? Ido not say that we should
do anything unbecoming ourposition or the doctrines which
I think have been wisely and soundly laid down of neutra•
lity in our relations with the Government of the United
States during these disturbances. But weshould do nothing
wantonly to infuse into their minds the idea that there is
any suspicion on the part of our Government as to their
conduct, and that therefore the Government of this country
is looking to. ulterior consequences and making preparations
for future misunderstandings and perhaps war. The only
inference they will draw from our sending a body of troops
—an expedition which is not powerful enough to defend
the frontier nor necessary to increase the garrison of the
towns—the only inference will be that there is on the part
of the English Cabinet suspicion and fear, and a prepara-
tion for hostilities which may be contingent with the United
States. I say that is unwise, and I hope such is not the
opinion of the British Government, and I will cheerfully
believe that it is not their opinion that such a contingency
is probable ; but if their opinion should be otherwise, then
I say it would not be wise nor politic to intimate that opin-
ion in this manner, but rather they should prepare for such
a sad contingency at a proper time, and take proper means
by which the honour and interests of this country should
be vindicated. When the noble lord boasts of the prompti-
tude with which the Government have availed themselves
of the new means which science and skill have placed at
their disposal, which enables the British Government to
transmit in a short time a numerous force to the other side
of the Atlantic, he must remember that the same means
will permit the British Ministry to repose in confidence
without exhibiting any unnecessary apprehension which
circumstances may eventually not justify, knowing that
with these new means which science has placed at their dis-
posal they can throw upon any given point an amount of force
with a degree of promptitude which former Governments
had not the power to do. At present I confess it seems to
me that this movement has a fretful and a feverish charac-
ter, and: whatever may be the opinion of the Government
as to any ulterior consequences which may accrue to Canada
froml
oipftwede
think the t
w
unhappy
bal disturbancese
been
better i
if
i wen t
acted
nwi
tt
tebd
more
t e
fse, r
cee
na rt
tannuceed, andin t
buant t it le nn ee c
ae
ns sdi t
spirit
tr forcedef nese tl
eondtoalo tpheelirewyi.saed,
by Parliament, and, as I believe, approved by the country
(Hear, hear.)

SPAIN AND MOROCCO.

Sir R. PEEL—In putting a question to the noble lord
the Secretary of State for the Foreign Department as to the
critical state of affairs upon the coast of Morocco, I may be
permitted to refer to the importance of tha, reply of the
noble lord, because it has been admitted by him, on the part
of the Government, that this question is one of the greatest
importance as affecting the interests of British trade gene-
rally, and more particularly in the neighbourhood of our
great fortress of Gibraltar. At this late hour of the evening
I shall not venture to trespass upon the patience of the
house by any lengthened speech, but perhaps I may be per-
mitted to qualify my remarks by one or two preliminary
observations. It will be in the recollection of the house
that when hostilities broke out between the Government of
the Sultan of Morocco and that of the Queen of Spain, in
I consequence of hostile aggressions of the Moors against the
fortresses of Melilla and Ceuta, which had been provoked
by the attitude of the governors of those fortresses, her
Majesty's Government demanded in writing of the Spanish
Government an assurance that when hostilities were con-
cluded no occupation of any portion of the territory of
Morocco west of Ceuta, nor, in fact, any portion whatever
of the territory of Morocco should be occupied as a guaran-
tee for the payment of any indemnity which the Spanish
Government might be inclined to demand for the payment
of its war expenses. I think the British Government
very wisely demanded that assurance, believing that
the trade of Gibraltar might be seriously affected
by a successful contest or the annexation by Spain of any
portion of the territory of Morocco. Really the quarrel got
up on this subject was most futile, but I can't now enter
upon that. I will only say that nine-tenths of the trade of
Morocco is in the hands of British subjects, and the cause
of quarrel between Spain and Morocco was of the most futile
rnmenthteonf
nvfernmmorenneten
again
character. The Spaniards extended their lines outside of
C euto. A wild tribe in the neighbourhood removed the
landmarks.Gove The Spanish Government complained to the
Government of Morocco tzMadoreocfucort,hwerhodeymiealndedds.anTd htheeSGpoavneisrhnmGenot-
and the British Minister that
o,ttpnaholnada dt
propositions
taws othere nt or nn
impossiblewune rt
Powers
until
for
rtf
tlha
es
mt Europetht
oe
they
Were Long of the Spanish Govern-
ment,panisrhceod
()into war the responsi-
bilitygo on acceding to the
were victorious.
Hostilities
and that if
montvhisetoTrious. They
apn,ienedebut they
must rest with the S
. place,
marched
did break out, and the Spaniards
lost 20,000 men in the course of a few
getting 7,000,000 of piasters from
a few miles and a desultory warfare took
succeeded in obt lining what they wanted—
money _20,000,000 of piasters. The Government mofnSityai.n
sueceoefdelNdloinrocco, but the latter Government
thhaev have already
Government
now say that it is impossible for them to go on paying these
large sums of money, and then what does Spain do ? The
house will hardly believe it. There is at this moment an
immense army collected in the south of Spain, and there is
also prepared a large fleet or squadron, the commander-in-
chief of which has visited the port of El Araicho and has
threatened to occupy Mogador, wb.7:03 is the port of the
capital of Morocco. There are numbers of Mitish mer-
chtints not only in Mogador, but throughout the whole
empire of :Morocco, for, as I have said, nine-tenths of the
trade of that couptry pag§es through British hands. I put
it to the house and to the GovZl*llll49Ht whether this inter-

ference of the Spanish Government to compel the pay-
ment of the indemnity for Morocco is not likely to
have a contrary effect, because it must disturb the
whole position of the Government in that savage country,
and the payment of the ordinary revenues is interrupted.
We find from the events of 1844, as well as from the
occurrences of two years since, that directly an enemy's
flag arrives off the coast there are certain barbarous tribes
which rise for the purpose of plunder, and all trade is at
once annihilated. I ask, if British merchants are entitled
to that protection which the noble lord assured the country
would be given to them in case of misconduct on the part of
the Spanish Government, whether occasion for it does not
now exist? The house would hardly credit the amount of
force that has been collected by Spain. The noble lord the
Prime Minister just now, in his usual pleasant manner,
sneered at what he called not a huge expedition for 3,000
men ; but what does the house think is the expedition which
Spain has prepared against Morocco ? There are 15,000
Spanish troops at this moment upon the coast of Africa.
There are also 10,000 troops in the south of Andalusia, and
the whole Spanish navy is in the waters of Algesiras,
ready to act against the coast of Morocco, and get up a
squabble with this country, perhaps at the instigation of a
neighbour. The Governor of Gibralter has visited the
Spanish squadron at Algesiras, and has reported the excel-
lence both of the ships and crews. Now, I wish to ask the
noble lord whether her Majesty's Government has at all in-
terfered with the object of effecting a settlement of the dis-
pute between Morocco and Spain ? I have recently heard
that her Majesty's Government has made some proposition
for an arrangement. A peaceful settlement of the dispute
will be most satisfactory, and the noble lord will gain great
credit with all persons connected with the trade and com-
merce of that part of the world if he arrives at a satisfactory
solution of the difficulty. I believe the French Government
has als'o offered its services for the same purpose ; but it will
be better if her Majesty's Government, so excellently repre-
sented by our Minister at Tangier, Mr. Drummond Hay,
can effect it unassisted. From the great influence Mr. Hay
possesses in the empire of Morocco, I believe, if he has
the treatment of the matter, he will be able to bring it to
a satisfactory conclusion. The noble lord, before the
commencement of the last war obtained from the
Spanish Government an assurance in writing, twice
repeated, that on no account whatever would Spain
ever occupy any part of the coast of Morocco. I ask
the noble lord to hold Spain to that pledge, given in 1859,
and not to permit the Spanish. Government, to the detri •
ment of British trade, to occupy any portion of the Morocco
coast. And I will ask the house if the Government of Spain
is one that ought to attack the Empire of Morocco in the
way it is doing ? Because Morocco has not exactly kept
a treaty, is Spain therefore justified in sending an
enormous army to invade a State at this moment in con-
vulsions? We know that the Spanish Government itself
has not been so very strict in its adherence to treaties.
(Hear, hear.) The noble lord at the head of the Govern-
ment lately spoke of the disgraceful conduct of Spain in
reference to a treaty with this country. England entered
into an agreement with Spain for the suppression of the
slave trade, and paid money to the Spanish Government for
that purpose. Spain not only entered into a solemn engage-
ment by treaty to suppress the slave trade, but received a
sum of money to do it. What was the consequence ? Spain
took the money, but in every possible way fostered and
propagated that infamous traffic. (Hear, hear.) At this
moment the Captain-Generalship of Cuba is the most lucra-
tive appointment in the hands of any Government in the
world—and why ? On account of the head-money levied
for every slave imported into the colony. Spain, therefore,
is not the Government that ought at once to proceed to such
extremities against Morocco for the non-observance of a
treaty. Again, has Spain always been so very punc•
tual in her own money transactions ? She is going to
war on account of the non-fulfilment of a money con-
tract by Morocco; but how has Spain acted towards the
poor Spanish bondholders in this country ? How does she
treat them ? I believe in 1834 the Spanish Government
actually owed to British subjects no less than 90 millions
sterling I How did it settle the claim ? Did the British
Government force Spain to pay the debt, as Spain is forcing
Morocco ? In 1834 a compromise was made, by which the
debt was reduced 33 per cent., besides the loss of many
years' interest. In 1850 another arrangement was made,
and by an arbitrary act of the Government the interest on
the debt was reduced from five to three per cent., with the
confiscation of seven millions of interest overdue. Again,
the house will recollect that last year the payment of a
debt of £400,000 was required from Spain by the British
Government ; that sum had been due for 20 years ; it was
never demanded for 20 years ; yet it was paid with the
worst possible grace, and in Spain much ill-feeling and ill-
blood was excited towards this country. I ask the noble
lord also to consider this : there is a system of annexation
being pursued, not only by France, but by Spain, that re-
quires his vigilant and active attention. The annexation
of St. Domingo is a most serious and dangerous precedent.
We have heard no opinion from her Majesty's Government
on that subject. The noble lord read the other night a de-
spatch, in which Marshal O'Donnell told him that
the slave trade is not to be introduced into that island.
(Hear, hear.) But, considering that Cuba is the hotbed of
the slave trade, and that St. Domingo is only 60 miles dis-
tant, there is some danger of the traffic being extended to it.
But now that the coast of Morocco is threatened by the
Spanish Government I hope the noble lord will give an
assurance to the country, and to those British merchants
through whose hands nearly the whole commerce of the
country passes, that these Spanish forces will not arrive off
the ports of Morocco and excite a feeling among the bar-
barous tribes that may cause them to make attacks on those
towns. I hope the Spanish Government will be prepared
to treat these questions in a generous spirit, and not press
the Government of Morocco to extremities.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the question put by the Hat
hon. baronet may be separated into two parts, and in reply-
ing to it I think it will be most convenient if I refrain
from entering into the merits of the former war between
Spain and Morocco, or into the question of the Cuban
slave trade, and the manner in which Spain has
fulfilled her engagements with respect to it with other
Powers. With regard to the right hon. baronet's question
referring to Morocco, I may state that the war between that
empire and Spain was terminated by an engagement, cm •
taining a stipulation that Morocco should pay to Spain an
indemnity of £20,000,000 dols., and that, till 12,000,000 of
that sum were paid Spain should continue to occupy part
of the territory. In the course of time the engagements of
that treaty have given rise to disputes and differences be-
tween the two countries. On the one hand the Government
of Morocco states that the Moors, regarding Tetuan as a holy
city, have become dissatisfied and disaffected at its occupation
by foreign troops. On the other hand, the Spanish Govern-
ment complains of a want of good faith on the part of
Morocco as to the payment of the indemnity. Her Majes-
ty's Government have asked the Government of Spain
what is the cause of its assembling these land and sea
forces ? The Spanish Government states that some of its
troops in the territory of Morocco are surrounded by bar-
barous tribes, who are constantly breaking out into acts of
violence, and that Morocco reftses to pay the instalments
of the indemnity. On this explanation being given her Ma-
jesty's Government proffered its good offices to the Govern-
ment of Spain, with the view of obtaining a settlement of
the dispute. At the same time we entered into communica-
tion with the Government of Morocco through Mr. Drum-
mond Hay, to whose services the hon. baronet has alluded.
We have received from the Government of Morocco the
assurance that nothing but its inability to raise the money
at this moment has prevented it from paying the instal-
ments of the indemnity, that the interruption of the pay-
ment is not the fault of the Government, nor is it caused by
the want of inclination, but the disturbed state of the coun-
try renders the Government linable at this moment to pay

the 4,500,000 dollars that:are due out of the 12,000,000 dol-
lars of the stipulation. The Government of Spain, on its
part, has accepted the good offices of her Majesty's Govern-
ment, and certain terms have been discussed between them.
When those Lerma were sent out to Morocco Mr. Hay was
desired to prepare himself to go to the Court of Morocco, if
necessary. A message was received from the Sultan stat-
ing that it would be very agreeable to him if Mr. Hay
would proceed to his court; and it is believed that his pre-
sence there will have considerable effect. On the other
hand, the Spanish Government appears quite wil-
ling to wait till the termt thus proposed have been con-
sidered by the Government of Morocco. And I must say
that the Spanish Government has declared, in all good
faith, that the occupation of Tetuan by 15,000 troops is an
inconvenience and a source of considerable expense, and
that she wishes to hold no further security than is neces.

sary to obtain payment of the indemnity. The Spanish
Government are quite villing to consider any reasonable
terms; but it is obvious that they cannot, consistently with
the dignity of the Spanish nation, consent that the treaty,
in which in it is stipulated that a sum shall be paid by
Morocco, should not be carried out. I cannot deny that
hear.) If
Spain has not complied with some of her obligations ; but,
for my own part, I con!ess I look with satisfaction on the
thriving resources ani increasing prosperity of Spain,
andl trusto
f cordialth a
friendshipt our countryd alliance.
a n and Spain may always be on
terms(Hear,
we can contribute in say way to prevent a new war break-
ing out between Spait and Morocco, I think that the good
offices of her Majesty's Government would be well bestowed
on that effort. (Hear, hear.)

~+ ¢ bx'

-
with the estimates so early in the session as formerly, be-
cause among the new practices that had sprung up was
the practice of bringing forward a number of amend-
ments on the motion of going into supply. (Hear, hear.)
The opinion which the hon. member for Lambeth had ex-
pressed was opposed to the opinion which he had given in
the committee on the subject, and he was more disposed to
agree with that opinion than the one which the hon. mem-
ber had just stated.
Sir S. NORTHCOTE said another new practise was
that of Government when there was a new motion which
they thought incorrect, getting lid of it by counting out the
house. That he believed was the real reason why these
motions were made. He spoke feelingly, for he had lately
given notice on a motion which was twice counted out, and
yet when he brought it on upon a supply night he found
the Government had no objection to it, and they actually
agreed to his motion. (A laugh.) That was the reason
why, though Government had now an extra night, no
progress was made. At the time when the present mode
of proceeding was agreed to, it was on the condition that
the votes should be made in the same manner as the army
and navy estimates, but Government had taken the advan-
tage of the recommendation of the committee that votes on
account should be given without accepting the disadvantage
of adopting the same principle as was applied to the mili-
tary estimates. It was said last year that the vote on ac-
count would not be made a precedent, and so perhaps it
would be said this year ; but it might go on that was, from
year to year, till it became the practice. If this was to be
put a stop•to they must make a stand some time, and he
thought they could not do so at a better time than the
present. If they did not stop it the house would lose all
control, and although they did not now usually reject votes,
they might exercise a very useful function by criticising
votes, though they did not reject any item.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed
that whatever was the cause of the postponement of supply
to the end of the session it was much to be regretted, and it
well deserved the consideration both of the house and of the
Government how it might be remedied. Though no doubt
the extra supply might have been of some advantage, it was
not of so considerable value as appeared to be supposed. He
did not agree with Sir Stafford Northcote, that Government
had got into a habit of counting out on a supply night, nor
could he see how the Government were more responsible
for it than Sir Stafford Northcote himself and his friends.
On the single supply night when there had been a count-
out he was as much surprised as any hon. member. When
it was said that a stand must be made, and that now was
the time to make it, he must say that it was precisely be-
cause Government were carrying out the recommendations
of the committee that they were obliged to come to the house
for votes on account, which they should not require if they
had balances in hand to use without check. The recom-
mendations of the committee were partly fulfilled, and the
way cleared for fulfilling them completely. The way it
was proposed "to make a stand" was to have the votes pro-
posed all at once. He could conceive no way of more com-
pletely uniting the disadvantages of both parties. The
result would be that the whole estimates would be passed
in a single vote, and there would be no opportunity of dis-
cussion, and it would throw all the public business into
confusion.
Mr. HENLEY said the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had placed the house in a difficult position, but it appeared
to him that they were carrying on two systems at once.
The right hon. gentleman said he was approximating to it.
[Assent from the Chancellor of the Exchequer.] 'Well, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer nodded his head, but perhaps
he might approximate the other way. Perhaps he was
oscillating. He did oscillate sometimes. (Laughter.) Per-
haps by-and-bye he would take balances. He protested
against this mode of proceeding. Let them take one course
or the other. The right hon. gentleman said they had only
counted out one supply night, but there were several nights
when they might have put supply on and did not. They
had no security that " approximation" would ever be com-
pletely carried out.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
hon. member had much narrowed the question by putting
the objection on the ground that there had been no pledge
from Government that the recommendations of the com-
mittee would be carried out. Bat he did not think it neces-
sary to give any such pledge, because it would be a more
reiteration, Government having pledged themselves to that
course at the time when the committee made their report,
and having already taken steps to carry it into effect.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he understood at the time
that a bill or bills would be introduced to carry out the re-
commendations of the committee.
Mr. F. PEEL was understood to say that it was the in-
tention of Government to bring in a bill for that purpose.
Mr. DISRAELI said the vote on account last year
was considered highly objectionale, and was agreed to
with great reluctance on the part of the house, only on the
assurance of Government that it should not be a precedent,
and should not be done again. Yet now we had already
had a vote on account this session, and a second was pro-
posed. The position of Government was very different, as
there were last year strong reasons which did not now exist
for taking an exceptional course. If this system were
allowed to proceed, Parliament would lose all control over
the expenditure. What means had they of expressing their
opinion on this vote to •night ? He felt that unless the
house now made a stand it would be parting with a portion
of its most honourable privileges. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON said that the delay was not owing
to any disposition on the part of the Government to post-
pone supply. On the last occasion of going into committee
of supply there were as many as twenty-six motions to dis-
pose of, and on other days there had been also a large num-
ber. 'With respect to the amendment before the committee,
it would only be aggravating the evil to postpone the vote,
as that would entail hardships upon innocent public ser-
vants to whom payments and salaries were due. So far as the
"count outs" were concerned, they were matters for whic h
hon. members were themselves to blame, and not the Go-
vernment, for if each hon. member who had a motion on
the paper for those days had been in attendance, there
would have been a sufficient number to have prevented
those unfortunate occurrences. In order to show that the
Government were really in earnest in this matter of supply,
it was proposed to take advantage of the new arrangements,
and make supply on Tuesday (this day) the first order.
He appealed to the committee, on these grounds, not to
adopt the motion. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON thought that the course taken by
the Government in permitting the house to be counted out
on Tuesdays had had the effect of inducing members to set
down the motions on going into committee of supply.
The committee divided, when the numbers were—
For the motion
Against it l4B
Majority against..
Mr. CHILDERS wished to know what:was the aggregate
amount of the balances in hand in the public departments ?
Mr. F. PEEL said that the balances in the hands of the
Paymaster-General were inconsiderable.

Sir S. NORTHCOTE inquired when the miscellaneous
estimates would be brought forward for real discussion ?
Lord PALMERSTON could not say on what day it
would be, but the Government would bring them forward
as soon as possible after the army and navy estimates.
The vote was then agreed to, and the house resumed.
PAROCHIAL AND BURGH SCHOOLS (SCOT-
LAND) No. 2 BILL.
The LORD ADVOCATE moved the second reading of
this bill, the object of which, ho said, was to put an end to a
long-standing dispute on the subject of those schools in
Scotland, by means of a just and reasonable compromise.
And it provided that the schoolmaster should give religious
iustructiUn in the brief form contained in the Westminster
Catechism, without requiring any declaration either to the
Established Church or the Free Church. The bill was
not quite all that he could wish, but it would afford a corn-,
mon ground upon which all parties could meet, while
the condition of the schoolmaster would be somewhat im-
proved.

After acme discussion, in which Mr. C. Bruce, Mr.
Black, Mr. Mure, and Mr. Caird took part,
The bill was read a second time.
HARBOURS BILL.
The amendments to this bill were considered and agreed
to, after ineffectual attempts on the part of Mr. Miller and
Mr. Vance to introduce further amendments.
The Public Works (Ireland) Advances and Repayment
of Moneys Bill passed through committee.
The Wills of Personalty by British Subjects Bill was
read a second time,
The Wills and Domicile of British Subjects Abroad Bill
was read a second time.
The Bills of Exchange and Promissory Notes (Ireland)
Bill passed through committee.
The Leases, &c., by Incumbents Restriction Bill was
read a second time.

The Piers and Harbours Bill passed through committee.
The Grand Juries, &c. (Ireland) Bill Was road a second
time.

The Voters (Ireland, No. 2) Bill passed through corn
mittee.

The Poor Assessments (Scotland) Bill was read a third
time.

CHURCH-RATES LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
Mr. CROSS moved for leave to bring in a bill to amend
the law of church-rates. The hon. member said the great
object of the measure was not to " ticket" dissenters, which
seemed to be the great objection with some gentlemen on
both sides of the house.

After some observations from Mr. NEWDEGATE and Sir
M. PETO,

Leave was given to bring in the bill. The bill was then
brought in and read a first time, and ordered to be read a
second time on Wednesday week.
The remaining orders were postponed, and the house ad-
journed at two o'clock.

- -
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They moderate, or stimulate, and regulate every function,
and confer on each secretion its natural quality and quan-
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wonderfully assists the Pills in promoting digestion and
extracting all available nutriment from the food. Hence
the power these remarkable remedies possess of strength-
ening the muscles, consolidating the bones, and invigorat-
ing the nerves. They may safely be employed in every
disease at any stage.

THE FATAL MARCH OF THE GUAI?D4S'.

ADJOURNED INQUEST.

GUILDFORD, Monday Evening.
• The adjourned inquest on the body of Edward
Norton, of the Fusilier Guards, who died at Guild-
ford, on Wednesday last, from the consequences of
the heavy march between Kingston and Guildford,
was opened at the Bear Inn, Guildford this evening,
before Mr. J. R. Capron, borough coroner, and a
jury.

- Assistant-surgeon Turner was first examined, and
after narrating the details as to deceased's falling
out on the line of march, and subsequent death, said
—The day in question was very hot, and the road
from Ripley to Guildford (the last 6 miles) was very
dusty. I think the bear-skin is the best head-dress
for a soldier, as it protects the head more than
shacos. I believe that the deceased died from sun-
stroke. He had his bear-skin on when he fell. I
think that a man would be less likely to be affected
by sun in a bear-skin than if he wore a forage•cap.
Most of the men had their stocks off during the
march. They were not prevented from taking them
off.

By the Jury—•We halted on a common near
Ripley, where there was some very impure water,
and it was very difficult to keep the men from it.
It is very injurious to drink water when on the
march. The men generally have water bottles, but
I do not think they had them on the day in ques-
tion. The deceased pat on two pair of trousers, by
his own choice, to prevent them being put in his
knapsack. A man is not allowed to wear two pair
of trousers. The weight of the kit in the knapsack
is about 171bs. I consider 701bs. to be an extrava-
gant weight. Several sick men were carried in the
waggons, some of whom were footsore, and others
ill from drinking water. The post-mortem examina-
tion bears out my opinion. The deceased died from
sun-stroke. It might have happened in Hyde-park
or anywhere else.

Colour-sergeant John Sinclair deposed that the
deceased's kit consisted of knapsack and straps,
mess tin and cover, shirt, one pair of socks, seven
brushes, two towels, two hold-ails, containing seve-
ral small articles. He also had a greatcoat, a king
Enfield rifle, and 20 rounds of ball cartridge, weigh-
ing altogether about 491bs. The usual kit for a
march, including everything, is 481bs. 6oz. We do
not consider 18 miles too long a march.
By the Jury—The weight of a bear-skin cap is
about 270 z. I find a bear-skin very oppressive on
a hot day. I should prefer a forage cap.
Lieut.-Col. John Hamilton Dalrymple—The 2d
battalion of Fusilier Guards started from Kingston
at 6.10 in the morning, arriving at Cobham at 9,
and Gaildford at 2 o'clock. The day was very hot,
one of the hottest days he had seen in the service.
Everything deceased carried, including the clothes
he stood in, weighed 491bs. 12oz. A bear-skin is
about the best cap a soldier can wear in hot weather,
as it protects the head from the sun. All the men
were allowed to take off their stocks if they liked.
The general length of march is 15 miles per day,
but there was no halting-place between Kingston
and Guildford. The men did not seem more dis-
tressed than usual on a long march. An officer was
with us who had marched a great deal in India, and
he said that it was as bad as an Indian march. The
men were cautioned about drinking water. The
men were not obliged to wear the bear-skin ; many
of them took them off, but many men prefer march-
ing in them. It is against the rule for a man to
wear two pair of trousers.
After other evidence,
The Jury deliberated for some time, and then re-
turned the following verdict, " Death from natural
causes, the result of sunstroke received on the march
between Kingston and Guildford."