The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-30 00:00:00

of need for the defence of their own property. All that
was requisite in such cases was proper defences and a
sufficient number of pieces of ordnance.
Sir J. TRELAWNY was afraid that the vote, ;f
agreed to, would lead to considerable additional expendi-
ture. Instead of 300,0001., the amount would probably
exceed 1,000,0001.

Mr. AYRTON thought the Government ought to
mention the harbours on which the sum of 13,5001. was
to be expended. It certainly must be intended for only
two or three harbours, and he thought it no't at all de-
sirable to commit the )3ouse to an expenditure of 300,0001.
Lord PALMERSTON was not in a position to state
the particular towns on which the money was to be ex-
pended. If the proposal was to begin fortifications on
which 300,0001. must be expended it might be _argued
that it would be necessary to complete them or all the
money would be thrown away. Bat the intention was
to fortify a number of places, each of which would cost
only a small sum. It did not follow that it would be
necessary to proceed with all the fortifications contem-
plated. He might state that Liverpool, Hull, and Sun-
derland were threeof the places from at hich applications
had been received.

General WILLIAMS supported the vote, and was of
opinion that the contemplated works could not be com-
menced at too early a period. To show the importance
of fortifying our seaports he might state that during the
French war the ports of France were so welt fortified
that Nelson could not put a stop to the French coasting
trade.

After some further discussion, in which Sir H. Ver-
ney, Mr. Rich, and Sir C. Napier took part, the vote
was agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. WILLIAMS, the chairman
then reported progress, and the house resumed.

MINISTERS' MONEY (IRELAND).
On the order of the day for going into committee on
this bill,
Lord J. MANNERS objected to going on at that hour
wi, h the bill. Certain returns with respect to the pro-
perty of the ecclesiastical commission affecting the very
basis of the bill had been moved for, and he submitted,
therefore, that the measure ought not at present to be
proceeded with.
Sir G. GREY denied that the returns which the noble
lord referred to bad any direct bearing on the bill.
Mr. HORSMAN explained that the income of the
present year was 143,0001., and that of the last year
was 93,6001. The balance, after payment of ministers'
money, would amount to about 2,0001. Ha thought
that these facts would afford all necessary information
to the house.

Mr. HAMILTON said that this bill was giving to the
owners and inhabitants of certain towns in Ireld.n 1 an
advantage to which they had no right. S ill, after ti e
division of the other night, he felt that the house had
decided on abolishing that payment ; but with respect
to the fund out of which that payment was to be made
good no decision had been arrived at. It was therefore
necessary that the returns to which his noble friend had
referred should be before the house before any further
steps were taken,
Mr. BUTT felt convinced that this bill did not affect
the security of church property in Ireland. He looked
upon ministers' money as a mere tax, and nothing more.
He believed that the protestants in Ireland were desirous
to have the tax abolished. (Hear.) Not one petition had
been presented by the protestants of that country in
favour of the tax.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY objected to this measure, as
it was pressed on by reason of certain corporations in
Ireland setting themselves above the law.

Sir A. ELI'ON objected to the measure, because he
thought one great measure ought to be introduced for
dealing with all the religious questions in Ireland. He
objected to non-members getting up first upon one side,
and then upon the other, and attacking the creeds and
advantages enjoyed by those opposed to them.
The house went into, and the bill passed through,
committee.