The Sun.
London, England, 1859-02-05 00:00:00

panics of that description, and we have felt that in the
present state of the money market it was not expedient
indefinitely to increase the number of those guarantees ;
because between the time when the interest upon under-
takings of that kind becomes payable and the time at which
they bring back any return a considerable interval must
elapse. We have thought it, therefore, more desirable to
press forward with the utmost speed the works that are
already actually in progress than to begin new ones to any
great extent and to give fresh guarantees. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT—I have listened to the observations of the
noble lord with very great pleasure. I think that he has
given a very fair answer to the question of my hon. friend the
member for Sheffield. But there is one point which has not
been referred to which I think bears very importantly upon
the question raised. I fully admit the necessity that there
is for establishing roads, or railroads, or some means of
communication in various parts of India, but I can con-
ceive it quite possible that the roads should be as good in
India as in any part of England and yet that there should be
very little improvement in the cultivation of the soil or
in the production of the land. We have had a case of this
description near home. In no part of the]United Kingdom
are the roads better than in Ireland; at the same time we
know that from causes of a different character the
agriculture of Ireland was about as bad us possible.
We may have, therefore, in India any number of
roads that English capitalists may like to make, under the
guarantee of the Government, and still we may have very
poor cultivation and very little production from the soil. I
believe, therefore, that unless something be done—in
Southern India especially, in the province of Madras—to
improve the tenure of land and to give greater security both
to the cultivators and to the owners of the soil, little good
will result from guarantees to railway companies. (Hear,
hear.) I have been very sorry to observe, from private
letters and from the public newspapers, that the Govern-
ment of Madras have been following the example of the
Government of Bombay in a manner which I conceive to
be little short of official insanity. The Government of Mad-
ras have issued a commission, called an Enam Commission,
for the purpose of ascertaining the titles to land in that
province ; but I think that anybody who has been concerned
with Indian affairs during the last two years must have
observed how complete was the unanimity of opinion
with respect to the absolute folly and injustice of a similar
commission in Bombay. It has been said, indeed, that this
commission in Madras is not exactly the same as that in
Bombay. Unfortunately, it has the same name, and I fear
that it will produce the same results. If I understand it
aright, it is intended to examine into the title deeds and
rights of possession of proprietors of land whose rights have
not been disputed for half a century ; and the mode in
which the inquiry will be carried on—judging fr.m what
took place in Bombay—is such that if it were attempted in
regard to the property of the landed gentry in England it
would change this country in a week from a condition of
tranquillity to one of absolute revolt. (Hear, hear.) lam
speaking from a statement which has been made to me by a
gentleman of very high character, and of great information
in India, and I believe that I express the sentiments of most
gentlemen in this country who are acquainted with the
state of affairs in India. The noble lord in his new Go-
vernor of Madras has made an appointment which I think is
calculated tt gain the confidence of the house and of the
friends of India, for I am disposed to think that the gentle-
man who is going out there is as well qualified, probably, as
anybody who could have been chosen for the high office
which he is about to fill. (Hear, hear.) At the same
time, I don't care what is the character of the man, or how
just and pure may be the motives of the noble lord in ap-
pointing him to that office—if he goes to Madras and is to
carry out a system so severe, so relentless, so utterly unjust
as has been adopted in Bombay, then, I say, whatevef
troubles may happen in Madras, the noble lord and those
who are associated with him will be responsible for them.
It can't be of the slightest consequence to the Government
whether half a score or half a hundred men hold land upon
titles which, of whatever nature, have not been questioned
for half a century ; but it is very important that that ex-
pression in the proclamation which appeared to guarantee
to the people of India their rights of property should not be
merely a statement upon paper, but should be felt to be a
truth by all the natives of India. (Hear, hear.) The
noble lord, I am sure, will know that I am not making
these observations for the purpose of detracting from his
merits as the Governor of India in this country. I beg
that he will use his own strong sense and just feeling to-
wards the people of India, and that he will not allow the
officialism of that country, the red-tapism, the old-Indianism
--so to speak—to over-rule him in a matter of this nature.
If he does, I believe that he will have next year, or the
year after, to repent that he did not act with regard to
India upon the only principle which could be applied to
land in this country. I think that the fair thing would
have been to appoint a commission, not to inquire into the
titles to these estates, but generally into the whole
tenure of land in India, as was done with respect to
the practice of torture some time ago. If a commis-
sion were appointed to inquire into the whole question
of the tenure of land, especially in the province of
Madras, with its population of more than 20,000,000, and
in which the land, owing to the mode in which it is held,
has no saleable value, and to gain all the information upon
that subject which was to be had, I think it very probable
that the noble lord might be able to introduce some legis-
lation which would give to the land, and the industry of
the people, and the climate of India a fair chance of pro-
ducing all that they could produce, and to the manufac-
turers of this country all the benefits that could result from
their connexion with a country capable of producing so
abundantly as we know that India can produce. (Hear,
hear.) I don't ask for an answer now. I merely throw
out these observations as suggestions, and 10 days hence, I
hope, we shall hear from the noble lord that a commission
will be appointed to inquire into this subject of the tenure
of land, which I do not hesitate to say is the first and fore-
most question to which the noble lord should direct his
attention. (Hear.)
Lord STANLEY—At the time when the appointment
of Sir C. Trevelyan to the Governorship of Madras was
determined on, I wrote to Lord Harris to request that he
would suspend all operations with regard to the Enam
Commission until the arrival of his successor at Madras.
The object of the commission is not to disturb the old titles,
but, on the contrary, to confirm them, and to give a Par-
liamentary title to a great mass of property the validity of
the title to which is disputed.
Colonel SYKES said, there was literally not one man in
a hundred in this country who understood the subject
alluded to by the honourable member for Birmingham. It
was not the right to land, but the right of an individual to
pay a Government tax that had to be inquired into. When
the subject should be introduced at a future period he
should be prepared to discuss it. With regard to the
production of cotton in India, the honourable and gal-
lant gentleman said that it might be produced there to
any extent that the manufacturers of Manchester might
require. The manufacturers of this country, if they wished
to obtain sufficient cotton from India, should make it worth
the while of the cultivators in India to produce cotton rather
than sugar or indigo, and, as he had frequently told them
during the last 20 years, they should send out agents to
India to obtain cotton. The imports from India to this
country were £23,000,000, while our exports to India were
only L 12,000,000 or £13,000,000; and why? Because the
people of India did not want our woollens, our hardwares,
our stationery or our glass ware. For a long series of years
the balance of trade had been paid by us in bullion to India.
With regard to public works in India, thve magnificent
works were in progress at this moment. First, there was
the pier at Madras. Next, there were the works which
would this year supply Bombay with water. Bombay had
been without water during the last 100 years. (Hear, and
laughter.) Lastly, there was a work going on which would
complete the line of communication with Central Asia.
Then, with regard to roads, hon. gentlemen appeared to be
not aware of the fact that during eight months of the year
all India was a road. Roads in India were not of so much
importance as they were in this country. As soon as tran-
quillity was restored in India there could be no doubt that
the progress which had been interrupted by the mutiny
would be resumed.
Sir J. ELPHIN ST ONE corroborated the remarks of the
hon. and gallant colonel as to the cultivation of cotton in
India, and stated that, until better means of conveying cot-
ton from the interior of India to the coast were provided, it
was hopeless to expect the manufacturers of this country
to procure much cotton from India, because it had to be
dragged by bullocks great distances along the roads,
whereby it was much soiled.
After a few remarks from Mr. J. EWART, as to the
necessity of greater irrigation in India before the supply of
cotton could be expected to be much increased,
The motion was agreed to.
OCCASIONAL FORMS OF PRAYER.

Mr. WALPOLE obtained leave to bring in a bill to re-
peal certain Acts and parts of Acts which relate to the ob-
servance of the 30th of January and other days.
The house then adjourned.