The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-04 00:00:00

DIVORCE BILL.

Lord PALMERSTON, in reply to a question from
Mr. Drummond, said that, on Mondr.7 next, he should
fix the day for the second reading of the Divorce bill.

INDIA.

Mr. HADFIELD thought it rather unjust to India
that time could, not bo sphred to d,i4cuss important mat•
tern relative to the interest© of that country, when a
whole night was wasted discussing the price of a single
picture.

Lord A. V. TEMPEST inquired when the President
of the Board of Control would make his financial state-
ment, and hoped it would be before the festive season of
the whitebait dinner?
Sir E. PERRY suggested that forth° future the state-
ment should be made within the first 10 days of the
session.
Mr. V.I.SMITII said that it was the house itself anal rot Government which was to be blamed for the delay
in his bringing forward the Indian budget, as it wished
to get rid of its business before discussing a matter
which would lead to no immediate result. Re could
❑ut, in the present state of public libusiness,.prorniFe it
before the end of the month. As regarded the emigra-
tion of the coolies, the back passage was a matter on
which, for the protection of the coolies themselves, the
Indian Government looked with the greatest possible
jealousy. He had, however, written a despatch upon
the subject, and would forward the wishes of the peti-
tioners with the greatest possible pleasure.
Mr. KERSHAW said, although there might be an
the deepest interest in
apathy in the house with regard to Indian affairs, the
beginning to take
country was
join is
them. He begged to join ic the appeal which had been

LEE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 4

1857

come when all the colonies would provide their own go- in the next, 872 ; in the next, 1,117 ; and in the last
vernors. I half-year, 1,325. These figures alone showed the value
Mr. BRISCOE wished to know whether the charge of the harbour, and justified him in asking the committee
for Jamaica was to be permanent ? to accede to the vote.
Mr. LABOUCHERE had pledged himself to the pre- Sir C. NAPIER wanted to know whether the packets :
sent governor to endeavour to obtain it as long as he from Ireland were included in those numbers which bad
continued in office. just been given to the connnitttee, for it so they alone
Mr. CROSSLEY thought all the colonies should pay would explain the increase.
their own governors. Mr. BENTINCK thought the gallant member had
Mr. WILLIAMS withdrew his amendment. fallen into a mistake. The numbers which the right hon.
The vote was then agreed to. baronet had read referred to the new harbour, whereas
21,450/. for the salaries of stipendiary justices in the the packets stopped at the old harbour. (Hear, hear,
West Indies. from Sir C. Wood.) This, therefore, met the objection
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the first item of 7,2001. of the hon. and gallant member.
for magistrates in Jamaica. The charge had been in- Mr. LINDSAY said that the words of the vote
troduced at the time of the emancipation of the slaves, showed that the intention of the Government was to
but now appeared to be permanent. make this port a postal station for America. So far as '
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the charge would not the increased number of ships went, the amount of ton-
be permanent unless the magistrates were immortal, nage in the returns furnished, showed that many of
The arrangement was that as they died out their places them-could be but fishing smacks.
should not be filled up, and there was a reduction of Mr. KINNAIRD pointed out that one of the main
2,8501. in the vote this year in consequence of deaths. objects of a harbour of refage was the savicg of life ;
Mr. BENTINCK did not wish the vote to pass with- and whether that was saved—so long as it was saved—
out calling to the recollection of the committee the on board great ships or small ones, was immaterial.
treatment which the West India Islands had received Mr. O'FLAHERTY thought there ought to be an in-
from the mother country, and the distress it had pro- quiry before making this port a point of departure for
dosed, America. Some such ulterior result, he believed was
The vote was then agreed to, as was the next, at the bottom of the vote.
10,2301. for the civil establishment on the western coast Mr. LOCKE protested against the increase which had
of Africa. been made upon this vote. If such things were allowed,
19,6091. for charges connected with the Island of St. it was impossible for the house to keep a due guard over
Helena. the public purse.
Mr. WILLIAMS asked for an explanation as to the Mr. SCHNEIDER bore testimony to the benefits
sum of 18,8141. which the governor had drawn from the which Holyhead Harbour had conferred on the coasting
commissariat chest in four years, from 1847 to 1851, trade.
under a misunderstanding, as it was now alleged, and Mr. HUDSON thought that something ought to be
which sum the house was called on to make good this done for the harbours of the north of England, which,
year. as matters stood, were taxed and got nothing in return
Mr. WILSON said until a few years ago the colony from the national exchequer. He did not find fault with
lof St. Helena was supported by a vote of that house. In the present vote, but he asked the Government not to
1846 it was determined that it should in future pay its spend all their money upon one place to the exclusion of
own expenses. The governor of the colony at that the north of England.
period, misapprehending the instructions which he re- The vote was then agreed to.
ceived from the Colonial-office, thought he was justified 224,0001. harbours of refuge.
in drawing upon the commissariat chest, as he had Mr. HENLEY called attention to the expenditure on
theretofore done, on account of deficiencies in the ex- the works at Dover, and wished to know whether the
penses of the island. That went on for about four years whole of the plan of the commissioners was to be car-
without being discovered, when a Treasury minute was vied out ? The hon. member proceeded to recapitulate
passed ordering the repayment of the money ; but the the various reports of commissioners from 1834 up to the
colony being unable to pay anything beyond its current latest period, inferring from thence that the great pre-
expenses, the money had not been repaid. Under these ponderance of decision was so conclusively in favour of
circumstances it was thought best to prepare a separate Dover as a harbour of refuge as to make its completion
estimate to make good the deficiency. a national necessity. Having gone through this prelirni-
The vote was then agreed to, as were also the fol- nary matter, he turned to the progress of the works in
lowing : that harbour, asserting that the country should have
9601. for the colony of Heligoland, and 3,831/. for the some certain information as to what Government meant
Falkland Islands. to do with this great work. The first contract was taken
On the vote of 5,7001. for Labnan, for 800 feet, the second for 1,000 feet, but all proceeding
Mr. WILLIA.MS asked for explanation of the on the improved plan 0f1839-46: Up to the present time
grounds on which the vote still appeared in the esti- the progress of the works had been extremely slow,
mates, notwithstanding the admitted failure of the only 1,800 feet out of 1e mile, The rate was not more
colony.
t',an 100 feet per annum ; indeed it did not proceed even
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he must admit that La- at that rate. The committee were aware that this work
buan had hitherto been a source of great disappoint- was being constructed by means of the diving bell, and
ment as well as expense. (Hear, hear.) At the same no praise could be too great of the skill and perseverance
time, he thought the Government who first took the of the engineers and other persons connected with the
matter up were quite justified in pursuing work. The Secretary of the Treasury said the other night
that course, considering that there was a magnificent if works of this kind—speaking of Halyhead harbour—
harbour, and tbat the coal mines were of great apparent were carried out at all, they ought to be done quickly,
importance in reference to communication with the east. as, until they were completed, a great amount of capital
The company that undertook to work the coal mines was locked up, and yielded no return. With every
had not certainly been as successful as it was ex- word of that he concurred. Mr. Walker and
pected to be, but the government were not disposed to Mr. L. Vignolles both recommended that this work
give up the matter until the enterprise had had a fair should be carried on at two points at once ; but that
trial.
bad not been done. He would now call attention to the
Mr. MAGUIRE thought it was not essential to a state of progress of these works. In 1854, 800 feet were
fair trial that the treasurer should receive 5001. a year. completed ; 1,000 feet more to be completed in 1864
Mr. LABOUCHERE considered it aecessary that They were now in deep water, and there remained to be
the treasurer should be a gentleman on whom full reliance carried out besides these 1,800 feet which were contracted
could be placed, for, 8,000 feet, and at the rate of progress which had
The vote Was then agreed to. hitherto been maintained it would be 85 years before
10,000/. was then voted for the colony of Hong Kong. the work was completed. But this was not all, because
On the vote of 13,4241. for the expenses of the Erni- from the greater difficulty of laying the foundations in
gration Board, 1855 only 46 feet were put in, and in 1856 50 feet. At
Mr. ADDERLEY said at the time when this vote this rate they would not finish the work for 200 years.
commenced the colonies took hardly any part in the In 1855 Mr. Walker reported that the progress of the
promotion of emigration. They now took a very active work was delayed from the chalky foundation proving
part. At one time it was a great object with the ien- not so good as near the shore, and that in three months
pefial legislature to induce the poor to emigrate, because they had been obliged to go 2 feet deeper. In Ju1y,1856,
there was supposed to be a surplus population. The Mr. Walker said the soft nature of the bottom still re-
reverse was the case now, It was, however, still a tarded the progress of the works. In Oct., 1856, another
great object with the colonies, and he hoped it would change took place, and they got to the depth of 45 feet.
long continue to be so, to encourage emigration from In April, 1857, Mr. Walker said they were now at a
Great Britain in preference to emigration from any depth of 46 feet on a foundation of broken flint and sand,
other part of the world ; and it followed from this that which, however, he did not thick was a very bad foun-
they should bear the burden of the expenditure. Under dation. He thought he was quite warranted from these
these circumstances he thought the Emigration Board statements in asking what time the Government ex-
should be discontinued. There was one portion of the pected this work to be completed, if they determined to
vote which he had no wish to interfere with, namely, go on with it ? He also wished to know if any measures
that which comprised the expense of the officers who had been taken by Government to know what the silt-
were entrusted with the carrying out of the Passengers ing up had been I He should also like to be informed
Act, bnt he saw no reason why those officers should not what injury had been done by storms ? In a report of
be attached to the Colonial Office. If no alteration Mr. Walker's in 1851, it was stated tbat in a storm
took place before next year, he should then call the at- which happened in that year, 200 tons of stones were
tention of the house to the subject, and move that the displaced. In 1853 something of the same kind took
Emigration Board be abolished. place, and 240 feet of the staging was carried away in
Mr. LA.BOUCHERE said the hon.`gentleman seemed 1855. These things accounted for the slow progress of
to think that the business of the Emigration Commis- the work, but he thought that these facts made it the
sioners was diminished, but he could assure him that more important for them to know if Government in-
such was not the case. He had indeed been enabled to tended to go on with the work, and at what speed.
recommend that the establishment should be diminished After a few words from let
his hro.nAfTrillenTPll;a'd gone at some
to the amount of one commissioner, and he believed that, Sir C. WOOD said
various harbours of refuge,
conducted. • The hoard had still very important duties for him to follow him
did not know that it was necesary.
ntioot:ltwhost3;2.dingthoe. , carrying
public o u
departmentt o f that re cwo ma eme
betternd a.. length into the subjectwhicohf hwandiolhedDtoovtehrewfoarsmooatei.onHofe
to perform, in connexion with passenger vessels, Cooliegentleman had t(hioe
ssoligbhyterset.
emigration, and claims made on the Treasury, and it ii ieu
rril that,ionsll statement,ot
i.: h rreav I,,aeirinnd ifrs
greater detail,
doetua
ira h
isecellaneous expendi-
would, for the present at least, be quite impossible to turre ing 1848 before the givencommittee on which he was ex-
dispense with their services.
amined at great length on this subject. Two commissions
Mr. BRISCOE would be sorry to see the vote discon- had sat upon this matter, it was fully considered for a con-
tinued, believing that great improvement had resulted siderable period by different governments, and the result
from the labours of the board in the case of emigration was that in the year 1847 the works at Dover were coin-
ships. menced. The right hon. gentleman had very truly stated
Mr. MAGUIRE said, in order to show the necessity that a very great number of gentlemen learned in such
for having emigration officers, he wished to observe that matters had been examined, and that they had given very
he knew one case, that of a large vessel, in which two or discordant opinions. He (Sir Charles Wood) was afraid
three hundred emigrants were about to embark, in which that the house, if they continued to discuss the question
it was discovered that one-half of what was termed bread ot
ho re
great engineers construction,
eNevrosultod
whom ho
hme oLdlirkeefle-ret- .
likely
'd
agree
was in reality clay made up in the form of biscuits. In gardgto the important question whether the Government
another case, a vessel of 1,500 tons was examined by the had made up its mind to construct the whole harbour as re-
officer's three times before she sailed from the port of commended by the committee, he was afraid that he could
Liverpool, and on each occasion was found to be pro. not give a very decided answer; because it was a question
vided with the full complement of men as her crew. No whic had never yet been seriously discussed by any go-
sooner had the last inspection terminated and the offieers vernment. What was recommended as indispensable at
left the vessel, when a hooker came alongs.de and took the commencement of the larger harbour, and what was
away twelve of the
was drivenmen,
Afterit o sailing,cork harbour h
most valuable in itself, if the ultimate decision should be
nte vessel esis n el
verygoshe the Government decided on doing, namely, to carry out
bad condition, grants on board. the pier 730 feet, beginning at Cheeseman's Head. The
Mr. KINNAIRD feared that the existence of the period calculated for the completion of that work in the
Emigrationthat they ,nightNevA
c E Boarddoptroevpernotmeodte mtheeciogalrontiieo.
Colonies from doing all report of the commission was seven years, and in seven
years it was completed. In 1853 a second contract was
wished to know on what principle free entered into for an extension of the work 1,000 feet
complaints in Ireland that it depended in a !'iyilnrg'
fur-
emigration was encouraged by the Government? There woullcpbewo.uldtoaccomplishth
omionaltiesi
existingg design
harbourufcsr"
political influence. He should be glad pier the westward
it was to be understood that free ems- into 64 or 7 fathoms water. That, then, was the extent
were many
confined to artisans and domestic sere to which any decision had been come. That length had
been contracted for, and even if the ultimate decision
should be not to construct the larger harbour, a most
gtg
or
ratione
knowa t d e
wasg
whetherr ee t
oo ab e
vents ? valuable work would have been executed, not only for the
Mr. LABOUCHERE could assure the hon. gentleman protection of the present harbour, but for providing the
that political influence, at all events, bad nothing to do means of holding any sized steamers at any time of the
with the matter, in illustration of which he might ob- tide, The hon. gentleman opposite had asked what would
serve that all the appointments in the emigration de-
be the effect of the work upon the present harbour, and
he was happy to be able to say that, so fas as the shingle
was concerned,it had been most satisfactory. The result
cpiaprite me
on n t
which were
free made
passages by it its pweremreangeinvten head.was thTahteofpre nin. -
showed that the erection of the pier had had the desired
deavouring to meet the requirements of the colonies, as
effect of preventing the accumulation of shingle, and
communicated on their behalf to the commissioners,
affording very great protection, so far as it went, from
as, the south-west gales, which were the dangerous winds at
Thefrom boardtheir
aeo.ned endeavoured n
condition,red to s e nwd e
roeut smostuch likelyem ig emigrants s
prove
Dover; whilst the work itself had been executed in a
useful members of colonial society. manner that reflected the highest credit both on the
The vote was then agreed to. engineer and contractor. With reference to the rate
2,1751. was voted to discharge the balance due to the of progress, that depended entirely upon the amount of
commissariat chest, on account of relief afforded to die- money voted by the house. But it could not be said
that what had been done had not already been of the
tressed emigrants in Canada,
greatest possible utility. It was not a work which would be
HARBOURS OF REFUGE. useless until the whole was complete. On the contrary, as
soon as a certain portion of it was constructed a certain
d t
the
et
harbouro grant 1200 f ,
roeofoa/g. e
f for theHo
Holyhead,
ys steam , p a c -
effect was produced, which effect would be increased by
Dover could ever be
k e
wito
harbour
a. therbLoloNr proposalpabs A
Y observed that the original estimate every 50 feet that were added to it. With regard to the
under this head having been 650,0001., the expenditure,
tqhusestionof
breakwatersilting
had
pbtohte
iharbour,that e
shpeefootund producedon inquiry
any thatper.
including the present estimate, amounted to no less than
were agreed
tthhearte,i f f
othis t vote
was
would atop s supposed
dcepstiirbcle. effectNAr loEnenwcaliydorbotht esooothbeorw.
properly termed a harbour of refuge, for how was it possi-
proposed to extend the pier 500 feet further into the sea.
ble that vessels could get round the Foreland to it in a wee-
The expenditure which had been incurred had been de-
terly gale ? Its only use would be to serve as a harbour for
Holyhead. From an official paper which he held in his our steamers in time of war, and sots protect the thousands
fended partly on the ground of the increasing trade of
of vessels which covered the Downs. It was perfect non-
hand, it appeared that in the six months ending the 30th sense to regard it in any other light, and ho advised the
led toN tohrecoouutidlayit
June, 1852, the number of vessels that entered the bar- Government, therefore, to finish off the works they had
bour was 255, and that in the six months ending June 30, now on hand. In his opinion, if a harbour of refugeio wr
1856, the number was 1,117. He was curious to know made anywhere,toto itooougre toanbese.ithgeatr,Sheadrl h, or n
what tonnage these figures represented. The tonnage of proximity the Goodwin d. (
the 255 vessels was 15,283 tons, or 60 tons each ; while if
heard Mr G._._
from Mr. Henley and Sir Charles Napier showed
1 steamer of 80 tons register entered the port of Holyhead W. 13 ENTINCK said that what the house had
pretty clearly that the best thing to do was to stick to the
every day, that would only give a tonnage of 14,600
plan of 1,800 feet from Cheesoman's Head. The
tons, Why, if his own ships were to enter the harbour
originaloint they had now to consider was, who was the reopen-
of Holyhead and anchor there each day, the return from
spible party to originate these harbours, to decide upon the
that would amount to the fabulous sum of 3,000,000
tons. But the government seemed to have an intention locality, and also upon the manner in which the works
to bring the American packet service to Holyhead ; but clearly understood before they came to a decision. A
should be carried out. That was a point which ought to be
if the American service were to be changed, it would go committee had recently been appointed to inquire into the
at that moment, to some point far west—either Milford Haven or Gal- subject of harbours of refuge,
tatnodtitowseas nott his intention
e
way. The fact was, that these harbours of refuge would to offer the slightest disrespect ha
committeegen lemen ; but he
never be finished sU'long as money was voted by the
Sir C.
House of Commons. He would not divide the committee like thteteserlhehad ust mentioned, was simply ridiculous. It
must say that to. submit to such. questions
y impossiblej for the ablest men in that house to
dealwasu with these subjects, for this reason—that the evidence
bour of refuge
until the First Lard of the Admiralty had an opportun. • such that they must be able to test
meat, nor propose any reduction, but wait
they had to examine was
sty of explaining this vote. from practical knowledge the value of that evidence before
s
der a misapprehension upon this subject, for so far back conversant with inquiries before committees of this housetrongest
as 1847 it
WOOD said that the hon. member seemed un- they could arrive at a decision. Every gentleman who was
was decided that this harbour should be a bar- knew that local engineers would. often express th
had already doubt in good faith, but still . influenced
bad ample information on this subject. In
by
entirely
1843 a commiss•
n 8%1.-
1844 an •
fact no ion was and a report made ; inof
as well as a packet station. The house opinions in favour of their own particular loloscoaasllitpyr,oinuo.
engineer reported ;in 1846 another commission engineers, he defied them to test the value of suc .
.„
aence and ascertain which was the man who was givoimoi:
reported ; and then the Treasury made the necessary ad-
thtelouca.li-
ythainscee. The hon. member also seemed to think that mittee. When they came to decide as to the best
diffi
t harbour
tended to shift
was being increased on the ground of the ties for Harbours of refuge they came to a still
hem believed
rade of Holyhead, evidence, and which was trying to impose upon
Nothing of the kind. There was in cult question ; and this committee,
of England, for
packets to
carried on at nolvh d It was purely as a harbour was the best locality, say on the east coast
North Sea pilots
of refuae, Another ea• • a harbour of refuge, upon the evidence of
i. wat possible
trade—certainly none worth speaking of—being there was only one naval man, woulduhuavehtiouhdecide which
her was the ide raisapprebension of the hon. mem-
and masters of coasters. In a ease like hat what possil)le
chaflce bad a committee of this house, utile's
practically
mieht take
Holyhead, and'isob alle that
thea which lie entertained it was in-
chance had a committee of this house,
airless
with any
point of stoppage of the. American
conversant with the subject, of cross-questioningthing was nee_
Holyhead The truth was this—it had been
found that occ•si n .v'
mails. But the-advantage men of that description ? The . the esrk,
In
American packets touches at the
upone -eine 0n.,.,.,
which those
ad therefore been suggested that they and unless they knew the authority
b a
they were put a
Id
in or land their pa drop their stop to the. batter. Ho trusted, then that the houspwcoou
ad therefore
of such stoppages either to take works were to be carried out the sooner
ssengers, or to take. in or
hon. gentleman large mittee just appointed, and how far it was intended the
art a complaint was this- -that a very
He protested
number of ships •inquiries of that committee should extend.
Holyhead. ,e _ availed themselves o• f this harbour
atwaste of public
, great fact which stood in the way of the be informed what were the questions referred to the rn-
valuable station
increasing f money. It was said that i't would be a
from Year t and from . month to month.
•tx d that number had it creased and was
time of war ; but it was
What th housefrom which to watch Cherbourgin •
oueclijear,consider, gas the number of against the harbour of Alderney as a useless
vessels takin e `: to
'Plymouth. He felt, therefore,
gre uge in the harbour, • nos the amount or hours of Portsmouth and
tonnage, Starting from the half-ye sin, 6r ending in June, disposed to move that the vote be reduced by the item for
ho was glad to learn that it
Hulderness. As to Portland, took refuge in
:1285::
next,il e f°arz:llt
hthat
Barbourduring ; thatin
thh:
el.,' fn-yeexatrh
half-year
else not nearly so well adapted for that purpose as the old har-
evaer.the was in every respect a most useful work.
number was 259 •in the next, 433 ; in the next, 810 ; Sir G. PECHELL had always understood Dover to he I
; less a harbour of refuge than one of aggression; for, as the '
;in the next, 840 := in the next, 634

Duke of Wellington bad well said, in case of an attack from
the French coast, we should Lave the sun in our faces.
The difference bet keen the progress of the works at Dover
and those at Portland was very great, and there could be
no doubt that it was much more easy t) carry on the works
at Dover than those at Portland.

Mr. LIDDELL believed the harbours at Dover, Portland,
and Alderney, were the bases of a great system of national
defence, which had received the sanction, approval, and
recommendation of the Duke of Wellington ; and ,he
thought these works ought not to be placed in the esti-
mates under the title of harbours of refuge. The works at
Diver would involve an expenditure of 5,000,0001., those
at Alderney 1.300,0001., and those at Jeney from 600,0001.
to 700,0001. He thought the house ought to know the ulti-
mate expense of the completion of these harbours. Repre-
senting, as he did, an important constituency in the north
of England, it was his duty to point out to the Government
that whilst they were sanctioning an expenditure upon an
enormous scale upon a coast which was not favourablelto
the construction of harbours of refuge, there was no har-
bour of refuge between the Humber and the Forth, whilst
the proportim of wrecks was far greater on that part of
the coast than on any other.

Mr. LINDSAY did not think the Government justified
in spending such large sums at Dover and Alderney, when
the establishment of harbours of refuge on the north-east
coast was totally neglected. He thought the question of
the expenditure at Dover and Alderney ought to be referred
to the committee which had been appointed to consider
the subject, and proposed that the vote be reduced by- the
sum of 114,000/.
Sir J. JOHNSTONE agreed in the remarks of the bon.
member (Mr. Liddell) with respect to the neglected state
of the north-east coast, whole the casualties amounted to
ene•half those which actually occurred. He was glad that
a committee had been appointed, and felt satisfied they
would come to the conclusion that a large expenditure
ought to be incurred in the construction of harbours on
that coast. (Hear.)
Mr. WARRE thought the proposition of the hon. mem-
ber for Tynemouth (Mr. Lindsay) most unreasonable, as it
was calculated to impede the progress of works which ought
to be completed.
Mr. HENLEY could not vote for the reduction proposed
by the hon. member for Tynemouth, because he considered
it necessary to complete the works which bad been com-
menced, otherwise the expenditure hitherto incurred would
be thrown away. It was clear from the statements which
had been made that Dover could no longer be considered a
harbour of refuge. The breakwater was intended to im-
prove the entrance to the harbour, to make it a packet
station, and to facilitate the coaling of steamers. In fu-
ture the charge ought to appear in the Post-office or naval
estimates.

Sir C. WOOD said the harbours now under discussion
were not aggressive but military defensive harbours. When
they were commenced, as it was not desirable to attract
the attention of neighbouring nations, they were veiled
under the name of harbours of refuge. (Laughter.) The
intention was to construct harbours where vessels might
lie for the defence of our coast—and ba ready to intercept
any enemies coming up channel. The Duke of Wellington
had clearly pointed out the superior means of observation
possessed by France, and it was thought necessary to con-
struct these military defensive harbours on the south and
south-eastern coast of England. With respect to harbours
of refuge on the north-east coast, it was no doubt desirable
that everything possible should be done for them, but they
must be looked upon as harbours of refuge for the pur-
poses of trade. Dover was a station for military defence
and the protection of trade, and the breakwater at that
port would afford a shelter within which steamers might
He in safety, and take in coal with the greatest ease. Al-
derney was adapted for the same purpose, and from that
station nothing could leave Cherbourg and other places
along that coast without being observed. (Hear.)
Mr. BENTINCK said that Alderney was not the best
place to watch Cherbourg, for they were not in sight of
each other. Ile should have wished some explanation from
the Secretary to the Treasury as to the subjects with which
the committee he was to preside over was to deal with;
and he (Mr. Bentinck) still thought that a commission
would be a better means of inquiring.
Mr. PEASE said he deplored what ho thought a serious

waste of money on these harbours; but he thought it
would be best to direct the energies of the house not to the
past but to the consideration of the subject which was to
come before the committee which had been appointed to
inquire into the whole question of these harbours.

The amendment was negatived and the vote agreed to.
The next vote was 12,0001. for the maintenance of cap-
tured negroes and liberated Africans.
After some observations from Sir G. PECHELL,
Mr. GREGORY was desirous of knowing the circum-
stances under which 1,2911. had been given to ex-Kin?,
Pepple, Ad what were his peculiar merits over the other
African chiefs who had received much smaller gratuities.
Mr. AYRTON said he knew King Papple. He was King
of Bonny,\and made a treaty:4a* the British Government
to assist iaTutting down the slave trade, and the payment
in the vote was a balance of the subsidy which was to be
paid under that treaty. He was deposed anti driven out
of his dominions, and was now in this country endeavour.
ing to obtain some assistance from the Government.
Mr. WILSON said this was on account of the vote
which had been granted last yeah.
The vote was agreed to.

The next vote 11,0501. for the expenses of the mixed
Commission for the Suppression of the Slave Tiade, was
agreed to.
On the next vote, 185,0891., for the expense of consular
establishments abroad,

Mr. WISE said at that hour of the night he could not
enter on this subject, but he would ask if, next session,
tha Government would appoint a committee to inquire
into the whole question of our consular establishments.

Lord PALNLLERSTON said that last year the Govern-
ment gave a pledge that this year a committee would be
appointed for that purpose, and the only reason why it
was not appointed in February last was, that certain re-
turns and information which were necessary to the inquiry
were not ready. The dissolution of Parliament had since
prevented the appointment of the committee this year.
He could assure the house that such a committee would be
appointed early next year.
Mr. A. KINGLAKE said he had given notice of his in-
tention to ask whether Government was in possession of

any information respecting the present condition of the
Tartar inhabitants of those parts of the Crimea which were
occupied during the late war by the troops of the allies;
and also to ask when, and at what places, British consuls
were to be appointed, pursuant to the 12th article of the
Treaty of Paris. It would probably be recollected that on
the landing of our troops in the Crimea, and on the forma-
tion of a Land Transport Corps, a number of arabas and
beasts of the country were hired, and it was found neces-
sary also to hire native drivers, inasmuch as the animals
were unaccustomed to threats and execrations addressed to
them in the French or English languages. Those persons
went with the army to the Alma, and on to Balaklava,
and remained during all the sufferings of the winter of
18.54. The Tartars at Eupatoria, and the other natives
who had been in the employment of our troops, became
committed to their own Government, although the Tartars
did not show much sympathy with the invasion. As these
persons had been in a manner forced into the service by
the military power of the invaders, it became the solemn
duty of the allies when they ceded the invaded territory
again to Russia, to stipulate for the protection of those
personw, and to obtain a complete amnesty for them. We
bad succeeded in holding the country in which they lived
till the conclusion of peace, and then obtained a guar-
antee that no harm should come to them, and it was
now our duty to see that the treaty in this respect was
put into execution. lie should like to see at Eupatoria
and Sebastopol consular establishments, at which these
persons could state any grievances they might suffer
from the Russian Government. It was rumoured that a
large portion of the Tartar inhabitants of that part of the
Crimea which was occupied by our troops, had migrated
into the territory of the Porte. Tho Russians were for-
merly in the habit of refusing to allow consuls to be sta-
tioned at Sebastopol and the western ports of the Black
Sea. But that was to be changed according to the stipu-
lations of the treaty of Paris ; but he found that there
wers only consuls at present appointed to those ports
where they existed before the war.

Viscount PALMERSTON said the hon. and gallant
member bad stated correctly the course of the transaction
to which he had alluded, and he had also stated accurately
the stipulations of the treaty of peace with regard to the
appointment of consuls. In reply to the hon. and gallant
member's question, he had to state that the Foreign-office
was now occupied in making arrangements for establishing
consuls in those places where by the stipulations of the
treaty consulates were to be established. With regard to
the Tartars, the hon. and gallant member was also right
as to the fact, but the transaction took place at a different
time to that to which he referzed. When the allies left
the Cricat'a there was a large number of Tartar families
who, having been engaged in'their service, did not feel full
confidence in their position if they remained in the Rus-
sian territory. Ten thousand of these families aplied to
the allies to be re, moved. from the Pus in, to the Turkish
's
net nto the northern
they
territory. Accordi.ooY were
sent
part of Turkey—viz., to Bulgaria. The Turkish Govern-
acted with gm at liberality to these persons, gave
i t
teheeem lands, and provided them with the means of support
and other assistance, until they could subsist by their own.
industry. The Governmeni; had not heard from our am-
b:issador at Constantinople tb..'t there had been any com-
plaints on the part of these people of the engagements
entered into by the Turkish Government not having been
fulfilled, and therefore he presumed they were contented
with their lot.
Mr. WHITESIDE complained of the number of assistant
registrars of the record at Hong Kong, anti he wished to
know what were their duties. Then there were 13 super-
numerary interpreters and four linguists. The expense of
the establishment at Hong Kong in this way w..ls 10,424/,
If he did not receive a satisfactory explanation Ile would
propose tI reduce the number of officers by one-half.
mr. WILSON explained that the word assistant meant
clerk. The first assistant was keeper of the records; the
others had nothing to do with the records, but were en-
gaged in the general business of the government. The in-
terpreters it had been found necessary to appoint for the
purpose of filling important offices as vacancies occurred,
and were for that purpose placed in a position where they
would acquire a knowledge of the Chinese language. The
trade with China was greatly increasing, and it was obvi-
ously inconvenient'that persons should be sent out to take
important offices as representing the trade of this country
with China who did not know the language.
_

WHITESIDE was not satisfied with the explana-
tion. It appeared that these interpreters were not inter-
pre, ters but young Englishmen learning the Chinese lan-
guage. As the trade at Canton was put an end to, no in-
convenience would result from the abolition of the Canton
mission. He proposed to reduce tho vote by 2,5331., the
salaries.

Mr. WISE supported the vote.
Viscount PALMERSTON thought the manner in which
the hon. and learned gentleman treated the question
showed that he was, as he said, completely in the dark
upon the question respecting which he sought to lead the
house. (A laugh.) The hon, and learned gentieman's
observations were not borne out by the facts. The duties
of Sir J. Bowring and his assistants were not confined to
Canton, but extended to the whole of the other ports,
and involved very laborious duties. Had the honour-
able and learned gentleman known even the rudiments
of the Chinese language, he would have known that
that. was a language 'very difficult to acquire. But un-
less a tongue could make itself intelligible to ears for
the purpose of trade, communication would be use-
less; and if we sent consuls to China it was necessary
they should know the Chinese language. It was re-
quisite, then, that you should send young men to acquire
that language—Jor it would not be wise to depend upon
natives on all occasions as interpreters. He ventured to ex-
press an opinion, therefore, that no money was better laid
out than that which was expended in teaching these young
men that language. Whatever the amount of the Hong
Kong establishment, it was one that was not more than
sufficient for the purposes of the public service in China,
which involved, as the house was aware, a large and in-
creasing trade.
Mr. HENLEY sail his hon. and learned friend Om-
tinced that the estialato was so worded that it was

possible to understand it in the sense in which the Secre.
tart' of the Treasury had explained.
Mr. WILSON said this was an estimate for next year.
Mr. Parkes, the consul at Canton, who was now at Hong
Kong, would be there with his assistants and interpreters
who knew the llnguage, to aid Lord Elgin in negotiating
with the Chinese authorities.

Mr. -WHITESIDE, after a few words in reply to Lori
Palmerston, withdrew his amendment, and the vote was
agreed to.

-Mr. WILLIAMS moved that the committee report
progress.

- gr. WILSON hoped his hon. friend would allow them
to go on.

Mr. ALCOCK thought it quite time to report prcgress.
He complained that it was unfair to members who came
down to speak on the Reformatory Bill which stood next
on the paper, that supply should be carried on till 20
minutes to 1 o'clock.

Mr. CROSSLEY expressed his regret for the loss of the
late member for Salford (Mr. Brotherton), who had suc-
ceeded in establishing as a rule that no opposed business
should be taken after twelve o'clock.
Lord PAL,AIERSTON hoped that the amendment would
be withdrawn. The committee would lose more time in
dividing than in disposing of the only'remaining vote on
the paper for the right.
After some further conversation,
The motion for reporting progress was withdrawn.
On the next vote,

22,500/. for the extraordinary disbursements of her
Majesty's embassies and ministers abroad.
Mr. WILLIAMS drew attention to the great expanse of
the embassy at Constantinople ' • they had already voted
1,5301. for six paid attaches, but in this vote was an item
of 1,1201. for interpreters, attaches, and clerks ; he would
also wish for some explanation of the item 1,6051. for ex
tra couriers.

Mr. WISE said he had given notice of a motion to re-
duce this vote by 12,5001.. being the excess over last year ;
but he was informed that the increase was owing to the
extraordinary disbursements at St. Petersburg and Mos-
cow on the occasion of the coronation, and he would there-
fore withdraw his notice.

Mr. WILSON explained that the details of the Tote
showed the expenditure for the past year ; which had been
very large in Turkey, owing to the wat.
Mr. BLACKBURN wished for some explanation of the
item 1,2841. for loss by exchange on diplomatic allowances.
For the Two Sicilies it was 44V1.

Mr. WILSON said that this allowance was only granted
on the disbursements made by the ambassadors for the pub-
lic service, and not on their salaries. Formerly, if there
was a gain on the exchange the ambassador profited by it,
but by a recent arrangement with the Foreign•efflce the
Treasury would derive the benefit.

Mr. HENLEY wished to know how there could be
loss of 449/. on the exchange in the Two Sicilies, the total
expenditure, including the loss, was only 1,0601.
Mr. WILSON was not quite prepared to explain, but
would make inquiry.
The vote was then agreed to.
The CHAIRMAN was ordered to report progress, and the
house resumed.

SUPPLY.
The report of supply was brought up and received.
PROBATES AND LETTERS OF ADMINISTRA-
TION (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time, and ordered to be cool'
mitted on Friday next.
_ _

GLEBE LANDS (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
EAST QUAY WALL TAX (DUBLIN) BILL.
This bill was also read a second time.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, 3114
the house adjourned at twenty minutes past one.