The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-25 00:00:00

ELECTION COMMITTEE.

land.

The Committee appointed to t;y the return for Hun-
tingdon county was sworn at the table of the House.

LUNATICS (SCOTLAND) BILL.

The arnendmeetsi to this bill were considered.

Mr. C. BRUCE suggested that the new Lunacy
Board should be put into working order, with Sir J
M`Neil, president of the Scotch Poor Law Board, at its
head.
Ths LORD ADVOCATE said that he had consulted
SirJ.Nl.'Neilon the expediency of joining the two boards.
He had expressed his readiness to undertake the duties,

but he considered it inadvisable to join the two board,
the working of which would be very daft-rent.

In reply to a question,
The LORD ADVOCATE said that he bad intended

to alter the l‘alaries to be raid to the commissioner

from 1,200/. a year to 1,0001., but lie foucd he was too
hite, as the clause was passd. Ile assured the house
that the commissioners would not be p more than
1,0001. per annum. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. STIRLING moved the omission of clause 113,

which exempted from assessments Orkney and Shet:

Mr. BLACKBURN suggested that the exemption
should only apply to Shetland, which after a discussion

was agreed to: -
The other amendments were then agreed to, and the
bill ordered to be read a third time on Monday.
POLICE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
On the motion for going into committee on this
Sir J. OGILVEY said he had no wish to make any fac-
tious opposition to the bill, but he objected to the prin.
ciple of centralisation it would establish, as opposed to
local self-government, which was dear to the people of
Scotland, the destruction of which they would not submit
to it if it were possible to avoid it. It %. as no reason
that because the principle had been introduced into the
English Police Act that it should be applied to Scot-
land, and he thought it should be resisted to prevent
the establishment of a a precedent in future legislation.
Admitting the principle to be applicable to England,
he contended that it was not -to Scotland; the circum-
stances connected with the management of the body
being vastly different in the two countries. '

The bouse then went into committee on the bill.
Clause 1, with amendments, was agreed to.

en clause 2,
Sir J. ANDERSON said it was only right that
burghsforming part of counties should have a voice in the
management of the police, and he moved the insertion of
words that the provost of chid magistrate of every
burgh containing 1,000 inhabitants, incorporated with the
county for the purposes of this act, should be a member
of the police committee.
After some discussion the amendment was withdrawn.
On clause 3, relative to the power of the Secretary of
State,
The LORD ADVOCATE said that this and several
other clauses, bearing on the subject, were copied, word
for word, from the English Act. All the Government

asked for was, that having consented to bear a certain
portion of the expense of the fine, the same powers
should be given them in Scotland that they had in
England, where the country gentlemen were
as jealous of centralisation as those of Scotland. The
E glish bill had been found to work well, and he knew
no reason why its principle should not be applied to
Scotland. The learned gentleman then gave several in-

stances of the evils resulting from local eelf•government
in Scotland relative to the police force; and maid that all

this bill propsed was to give the Government a certain
amount of superintendence of the police in Scotland,
but not an interference otherwise than to see that the

public interest did n:t suffer.
Mr. C. BRUCE supprted the establishment of an
efficient police force throughout Scotland, The details
of management should be left in the hittids of the
people of Scotlaud. He also urged the necessity
of a certlin number of detectives being kept, either at
the expense of the Government or of the people of
Scotland.

Atter a discussion, in which Sir T. E. Colebrooke,
Mr. Blackburn, Mr. Back, Cul. Sykev, Mr. W. Tt.wart,
Sir G. Grey, and other members took part, the com-
mittee divided, when the numbers were—
For the motion 74
Against it 47
Majority
The clause wai agreed t 3.
Clauses up to 23 were agreed to, with amendments,
when the chairman reported progress, and asked leave

. _
to sit again.
The other orders for the morning sitting were die-
posed of, and the house suspended its sittings at 4 o'clock.
Toe house resumed at 6 o'clock.
INDIA.
Lord PALMERSTON—I wish to invert the ordinary

courAe of proe,ediug, and to ask a question on this side
of the house of the right hon. gentleman the member for
Buckinghamshire. The arrangement made the other
day was, teat we were to give up Monday to the right

gentitman, in order teat he might make amution

on the affairs of India. I suggested to the right hon.
gentleman Monday, rather than to-day, with a ♦iew to
the probability of the next mail from India arriving be-
fore Monday, but I have heard since that the mail is 'RA
likely to be here until some time in the course of Mon-

day, and therefore I suge3t to the right hon. gentleman
v,laether he will take Monday or the next earliest govern-
ment day in the week, so as to make sure that in the
meantime the mail will have arrived, and that the whole
of the country as well as the Directors of the East India
-Company may be in possession of whatever news there
may be. We are entirely at the discretion of the right
hon. gentleman as to whether the arrangement shall
stand good for Monday, or whether we shall give bins
Thursday, if it suit him. Of course the right hon. gen-
tlealau will put upon the votes what the motion is that
he intends to make.

Mr. DISRAELI—Upon a question of this kind of
course any intimation by the noble lord will have
from me my grave attention ; but the noble lord
will remember that it waq at his own suggestion
that delay took place in bringing forward this ques-
tion. Ido not myself anticipate that it is of any
importance that we should receive any fresh intelli-
gence before I bring forward the motion which I intend
to make. I have beard the suggestion of the noble lord

that this matter should be taken into consideration on
Thursday, but I hope they noble lord will not be offended
at my saying that I have a firm conviction that it is for
the public advantage that no delay should take place in
bringing on the discussion of which I have spoken ; and
I hope the noble lord will, therefore, allow me t ) avail
myself of the suggestion originally made by him. I will
place on the paper a notice of the motion I propose to
make on Monday, but it will refer only to papers and
I may say that I have taken this course becausel be-
lieve it to be an act of public duty.
CONVE t ANCE OF TROOPS TO INDIA AND

CHINA.

Upon the motion for adjournment until Monday,
Sir C. NAPIER rose, and said the affairs of India had
caused great excitement ;. and he wished to make some
observations in reference to the conveyance of troops to
that country and to China. The gallant admiral drew
attention to the advautages which would attend the em-
ployment of steam vessels instead of sailing ships. The
Peninsular and Oriental Company's vessels took in coal'
sufficient for the voyage, because they used coal only
during light wind and calms. He would suppose two
vessels sailed, one a screw and one only a sailing vessel,
and it must be evident to every gentleman in the house
that the sailing vessel must meet with delays from light
winds and calms, whilst the screw vessels might be ad-
vancing at the ordinary rate. The ships sent would get
into the Bay of Bengal in lbstober, when the north-east
monsoon would prevail, and they would consequently
have 8,000 or 10,000 men beating about in the Bay of
Bengal for a long time if they were sent in sailing ves-
sels. He had seen in the newspapers to-day that six
steam vessels bad been taken up ; and he was extremely
glad that the First Lord of the Admiralty, or whoever
had the management of the business had done so.
Those steamers would take 4,000 men: but the cost of
each man on landing in India in two of the vessels would
be 491. and in the others 431. 15a From the
enormous price of these vessels, it must be very clear that
had the Channel fleet been kept up, and the ships taken
troops, they would not have cost so much as they would
when conveyed by merchant ships. There might be
some reseon which he had no knowledge of for paying
off the Channel fleet, but after that they had still in port
nine vessels of the line, including four screw vessels. and
if instead of paying off screw ships we bad paid off sail-
ing vessels, we should then have had ships in which to
send troops to India. He thought that this would be a
lesson to the Government not to leave the country with-
out a prsvision for such emergencies. He had nn hesi-
tation in saying that with the fleet and with Aldershot,
in forty-eight hours—as was done in Mr. Canning's
time—we could have sent 4,000 or 5,000 men off to
India. If these ships had been at Portsmouth, with
assistance from the Coast Guard service, we could still
have sent 5,000 men to India, even though the Channel
fleet had been paid off. We had eight block ships, and
if proper attention had been paid to them, they might
have gone to India, and have carried 4,001. or 5,000
men. If we had had the foresight to be prepared at all
times we might have had the means at this moment of
sending out to India in those block ships and some other
vessels 10,000 men, without going into the market to
get vessels at all. (Hear, hear.) The sailors who had
been discharged had probably found their way to Ame-
rica, and they were now asked to vote 2,000 more.
Sailors, like other person?, did not like being called upon
to serve one day and turned adrift soon after. He ads
witted thatin the case to which he referred the men went
away of their own accord, but they all knew what was
the character of tailors, and if they could not get em-
ployment in one place they would go elsewhere, and he
doubted whether the Government would be able to find
the small number of men they required. He was happy
to perceive that the Admiralty had recently taken up a
number of steam vessels, and were now endeavouring to
meet the necessities of the case, but he trusted that, in
order to pacify the public mind, and especially the minds
of those who bad friends in India, the right hon. ba-
re et would arswer the following questicas :—Hew many
wiips have sailed far India or China, the date of sailing
their names, tonnage, how many troops they took,
the number of days stipulated for the passage, and what
forfeit if they fail ; their cost, and whether steamers or
sailing ships. How many more vessels are taken up
fur troops, their names and tonnage, the number of
troops each are to carry, the length of voyage stipulated
for, the forfeit for non-performance, and the cost, and
whether steam or sailing vessels. If any ships of war
are commissioned for carrying troops, their names and
rate, when they will be ready, and how many troops.
they will carry, and whether steam or sailing vessels ;
what number of troops of all arms are left in Great
Britain and Ireland. Whether steamers have been
engaged to tow the vessels into the traded, and thei r
cost. •
Sir C. WOOD said the hon. and gallant admiral
wished fur more information than it was in his power
to supply. Tne vessels taken up for the conveyance of
troops to India were employed by the East India Com-
pany, and not by the Admiralty, and therefore he was
not able to answer the questions put to him on that
ject. He believed that the S MO9ll took a regiment
about 700 strong, while the other vessels conveyed alto-
gether from 4,700 to 4,800 men. As regarded the
vrssels taken up by the East India Comprny, he had no
knowledge as to what vessels they were, what were the
conditions made with the owners, or what was th
amount to be paid to the owners. It was not in his
power to state what number of troops of all arms would
he left in Great Entrain and Ireland. The present
emergency was one that could not have been foreseen.