The Sun.
London, England, 1859-08-10 00:00:00

PONTEFRACT ELECTION.

Mr. BRIGHT rnoVei fora select committee to inquire
into the allegations contained in the petition of Hugh C.
E. Childers, Esq., presented (9th August) ; and that the
said committee da consist of the following members :
Mr. Walpole, Mr. Crawford (Ayr), Captain Jervis, Lord
Robert Clinton, Mr. Selwyn, Mr. Phillips, and Mr. G. C.
Glyn.
Mr. OVEREND said it was with no small degree of
mortification and humiliation that he felt called upon in
addressing the house for the first time, to vindicate his
character from charges made against him the day preced-
ing. He had no reason to complain of the conduct of Mr.
Childers, who brought the case openly before the house,
and gave him an opportunity of making an explanation.
He was also obliged to the hon. member .for Birmingham,
in moving for a select committee which would fully investi-
gate the whole affair, and from that investigation he
had nothing to fear. He had not received any notice
whatever of this motion being brought forward until yes-
terday evening, when ho received a telegram at Lancaster,
that a notice of such a motion had been given. Ho objected
strongly to a term used by the hon. member for Birming-
ham, which only the strongest proof of culpability could
justify, and which had never been previously used in con-
nection with his name—he meant the word "fraud." (Hear.)
It was true that he had been returned by a majority of only
ten, and that a petition was presented, imputing to him all
the offences usual in such cases ; but he pledged his honour
as a gentleman that he had not been guilty of bribery him-
self, or that he was aware it was committed by his agents.
He gave instructions to his agents to defend his return, and
then heiwent on a circuit,and had no communication on the
subject until some time afterwards, when he received a
telegram while he was engaged in a nisi prius trial at
York, which was as follows :—" L offers to withdraw the
record on my agreeing with him to refer the late action"
(alluding to the election) " to a member of the house of our
side, of high character, both parties to be bound by his de-
cision." He consulted with some of his friends, and they
cable to the conclusion that the reference proposed would
be a breach of the privileges of the house, but that is was,
in fact, a dignified withdrawal by Mr. Childers of bis oppo-
sition to his election. He then telegraphed to his agent in
London to the effect that he placed himself in his hands,
and requesting him to do the best he could. [Here the
hon. and learned member read a correspondence which
took place between him and his agents, in which
one of the latter described the reference as
merely illusory ? He acted throughout under the convic-
tion that the reference was thus correctly described, and
he never considered that his seat was endangered by that
reference, for he denied most solemnly that he consented
to it pur et ample. He concluded by disclaiming the
slightest intention of acting in any way other than the
most honourable and straightforward.
Mr. BRIGHT said it was not his intention to appear as
an accuser of the hon. And learned member for Devonport.
Mr. Childers had requested him to present the petition,
and Mr. Cairless, the solicitor of Mr. Overend, had notice
last Friday of his intention to present the petition. With
respect to the term eomplained of by the hon. and learned
member, what he did say was, that Mr. Childers
considered that he had been, what he would say
from the want of a better word, " defrauded" of
his seat. It was no secret that Lord March was the
member selected as a referee, and that he has doubts as to
his being justified in undertaking to arbitrate, and that the
hon. and learned member did not consent to any other
member of the house being applied to. (Hear.) In
his opinion, the hon. and learned member was erroneous
in assuming that his seat was not in jeopardy by the pro-
posed inquiry before the referee, because the only object of
the inquiry must have been with reference to the validity
of the return of the hon. and learned member. He con-
sidered, from the statements of the hon. and learned mem-
ber, that Mr. Rose, the Parliamentary agent, had acted
very improperly.
After sane remarks from Sir W. JOLLIFFE,
Mr. DISRAELI stated that he considered the vindi-
cation of the hon. and learned 'member for Devonport com-
plete, and defended the conduct of Mr. Rose, who was an
honourable member of the body to which he belonged.
Under,the circumstances, however, he would vote for the
motion.
Sir G. GREY made a few observations in the course of
which he • said, that the petition contained an allegation to
the effect that the agent of the sitting member had made a
pecuniary offer, in order to induce Mr. Childers to with-
draw the petition, a charge so serious that it should be in-
vestigated
The motion was then agreed to and the committee ap
pointed seriatim.

NEW MEMBER.
Mr. DUNN took the oaths and his seat for Dartmouth.
THE VICE-PRESIDENT
TRADE .F O THE BOARD OF
Mr. DISRAELI inquired if it was true that the office of
Vice-President of the Board of Trade had been offered to
an hon. member of that house; and, if so, whether the
right hon. gentleman who held it at present had accepted
the office in India ?
Mr. M. GIBSON said he was not aware of any Bush
offer being made, and with reference to the latter right
hon. gentleman alluded to, he had no information further
than that he was considering whether or not he would ac-
oept the appointment which had been offered to him.
-OUTRAGES AT TRAVANCORE.
Mr. KINNAIRD asked the Secretary of State for
India, whether her Majesty's Government had received
any official information. as to the gross outrages committed
in the early part of the year in the Province of Travancore
by the natives of the So odra caste upon the Shanars and
others of like caste, and had any authentic intelligence
been received as to the discontinuance of such outrages ;
and if her Majesty's Govvrnment had sent any instructions
to the GOVarllOr of Madras',, or any other Indian authori-
ties, in relation to this case..
Sir C. WOOD said that Ne had received official advices
which stated that
SAthe whole question was settled.
LE OF OAS BILL.

The house wetLiinCocommittee on this bill.
On the 4th clause an amend.ment was moved to the effect
that the appointment of local iirspectors in boroughs, under
the Act, should be vested in, the Recorder instead of the
town council, and some discuszMon ensued. Ultimately
the amendment was withdrawn.
Lord HENLEY moved an addition to the clause, to the
effect that the inspectors of gas should not be selected from
the police force, which was negativ,td without a division,
and the clause was agreed to.

On clause 5,
Mr. V. SCULLY drew attention to the inefficient supply
of gas in Ireland, and alluded to this county of Clare in
which only two towns were lighted 'with gas, and consi-
dered the bill, in its present form, imiPPlicable to Ireland
as imposing too heavy an expense on Elie counties in that
country.
Mr. DEASEY agreed with the boa. and learned gentle-
_

man.
Mr. J. D. Fitzgerald, Mr. Sheridan, Mr. Crawford, and
other hon. members made some remarks. The clause was
agreed to with the understanding that certain alteration

would to be introduced to meet the peculiar circumstances
of Ireland.
The remaining clauses, with some amendments, were
agreed to, and the house resumed.
EUROPEAN TROOPS (INDIA) BILL.

On the motion for the consideration of this bill, as
amended,
Sir C. WOOD said that he wished to redeem the pledge
he had given to enter into an. explanation of the circum •
stances that rendered the present bill necessary. It appeared
that up to 1799 the troops raised in this country for
service in India were not under military discipline on their
passage to that country. It was found necessary that there
should be an alteration in that particular. In 1853 an ap-
plication was made to the Earl of Dalhousie, the Governor-
General of India, to increase the number of troops in India,
and which amounted only to 12,000. When the mutiny
broke out the necessity became apparent for an increase of
the troops for India, the maximum of which was placed at
24,000, which had been exceeded. It was in order to legalise
that excess that the present bill was introduced, and it in no
way prejudged the question of the organisation of the In-
dian army. With reference to the investigation that took
place on this subject, the commission were divided as to the
troops that should be sent to India, the Ministry considering
they should be composed of regiments of the line, and the
majority being of opinion that troops of a mixed character
and fitted for general service were preferable. As regarded
the mutineers, he did not consider that in the recent out
break they had any serious ground of complaint, though
there were some regulations in reference to them which were
objectionable, and which therefore ought to be remedied.
Some of these mutineers were recruits who had been re-
cently sent out to India, and he strongly objected to the
practice of sending out raw recruits to be trained under the
burning sun of India. He contended that circumstances
justified the introduction of the bill, and that it was not
proposed to interfere in the slightest degree with any mat-
ter
other than what the bill specified.
Gen. PEEL said that the bill was in direct opposition to
the recommendation of the royal commission, who objected
to an increase in the number of local European troops.
He complained that the bill was pressed forward with im-
proper haste, and at a period of the session when its pro-
visions could not be fully considered.
Sir DE LACY EVANS contended that the soldiers who
had exhibited disaffection had not been properly treated,
because they had been led to believe they were entitled to
discharge, which, however, was refused them. He ap-
proved of the bill, and considered that a local army in India'
was indispensable. The local army was very effective, and
the officers in the higher and the lower ranks were not
inferior to those in the Queen's regiments.
Mr. S. HERBERT said that the bill did not really pro-
pose to make any addition to the Indian army, but merely
to legalise the increase that had taken place under the Go-
vernment of which the hon. and gallant gentleman
(General Peel) was a member.
After a few remarks from Col. NORTH,
Col. DUNNE said that in considering the question of
the number of local troops in India, they should take care
that they did not interfere with recruiting for the Queen's
regiments.
Mr. AYRTON explained that the statements which he
made' yesterday in reference to the officering of troops
in India not being efficient, in consequence of want of qua-
lification on the part of officers, was based upon the state-
ments of some of the most eminent officers who had served
in India.
Sir F. SMITH supported the bill, and considered that
the only question with reference to maintaining a Euro-
pean force in India was as to the number. In his opinion
the arguments against the bill were not sustained.
Col. SYKES entirely concurred in the necessity of a local
European force. With regard to the evidence given before
the commission the opinions of those who were practically
acquainted with the subject was to the same effect, and
those who differed from them might be logicly right, but
they were technically wrong.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that it was the legislature
in this country which led to the recent mutiny in India.
General UPTON considered that there should be only
one army.
Mr. VANSITTART thought that the officers for the
Indian army should be appointed by the Horse Guard 4,
and not by the Indian Government, who had already too
much patronage.
The motion was then agreed to, and the bill was read a
third tinie and passed.
MARRIAGE (LISBON) BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
CHARITABLE TRUSTS ACTS CONTINUANCE
The committal of this bill was postponed until to-morrow.
Mr. MASSEY, in reply to Mr NEWDEGATE, said that
the bill would stand first on the orders of the day for to-
morrow, and that it would be taken at the meeting of the
house at 2 o'clock.
RAILWAY COMPANIES BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
FIREWORKS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
The order for going into committee on this bill was dis-
charged.

WAKEFIELD ELECTION.
Mr. HODGSON moved an address to her Majesty, pray-
ing for the appointment of Commissioners to make inquiry
as to whether or not corrupt practices prevailed at the last
election for the borough of Wakefield.
After some remarks from Mr. SpaiFht, Mr. E. James,
Mr. Brady, Mr. Malins, and Mr. Caird, the motion wag
agreed to.
PACKET AND TELEGRAPH CONTRACTS.
Mr. COBDEN, the chairman of the committee appointed
to inquire into the subject of packet and telegraph contracts,
brought up the report, which was ordered to be printed.
The house adjourned at a quarter to six o'clock till two
o'clock to-morrow.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
CONSOLIDATED FUND (APPROPRIATION)
BILL.
On the motion for the third reading of this bill,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY and Mr. WILLIAMS made some
inquiries.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the bill was drawn in nrecisely the same form as that of
last year. If there had' been any misappropriation of the
money voted for the expon.ses of the Duke of Wellington's
funeral it must have arisen ihrough mistake.
The bill was then read a thisd time and passed. • ,
STAMP DUTI.3S BILL.
On the motion for the third reaiing of this bill,
Mr. HANKEY drew attention tb. the inequalities in the
imposition of the stamp duties in reg.ird to probate, which
operated injuriously, and wero calculate:l to lead to fraud.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there
was no doubt some alterations might be made with benefit
in these duties, but inequalities were unavoidable, and the
general question involved was too large to be discussed at
this period cif the session.
The bill was then read a third time and passed.
CUSTOMS (No. 2) BILL.
This bill, as amended, was considered.
EAST INDIA LOAN BILL.
On the motion for considering this bill as amended,
Mr. CRAWFORD said he formerly objected to this
country guaranteeing a loan for India, and he still enter-
tained that objection. He considered that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would practically fail if he endeavoured
to obtain £5,000,000 on debentures ; but he thought that
money might be borrowed for the purposes of India, which
might be repaid in easy instalments by that country. He
hoped Parliament would next session consider this impor-
tant subject.
Mr. VANSITTART wished to be informed if the hon.
member for Devonport had accepted the office of resident
Chancellor of the Exchequer in India. The powers of bor-
rowing in India were completely exhausted, and consider-
ing the sums for different purposes of late years, he thought
they were acting in an unstatesmanlike manner in cavil-
ling about the money requisite for the necessities of India.
Mr. AYRTON said that Government had taken a most
extraordinary view of the relations of India to this country,
and be strongly deprecated the course adopted in maintain-
ing abstract and useless principles of political economy to
Inia which cost this country £10,000,000 in one year. He
considered they should settle the civil condition of India
before they proceeded to deal with the finances of that
country. He denounced strongly the centralising prin-
ciple that prevailed with Whig Governments in respect to
India, to which he traced the late mutiny, and which was
calculated to perpetuate discontent. He was also strongly
opposed to the establishment of what was called a local
European army in India, which tended to excite sedition
and weaken the resources both of India and England. It
appeared that Government had lost sight of the cost of
maintaining a European army in India, which might be
estimated at £lOO a year per man, and that expense was in-
curred merely to support that description of rule in India
which had already lasted too long. He alluded
to the evidence of Col. Green, an experienced officer, to show
that economy might be effected if they sent out only those
officers who possessed those qualities which were calculated
to secure the respect •of the soldiers under their command
in India.
Col. SYKES said there was not the slightest foundation
for what the hon. and learned member for the Tower Ham-
lets (Mr. Ayrton) had said relative to the army in India.
He said it was proposed to raise £5,000,000, not for the
benefit of India, but to spend in that country. There
was no doubt the greatest distrust in the money market
existed with reference to these Indian loans. In proof of
that he would draw attention to the following figures. The
4 per cent. loan of India was at 22 discount, the
5 per cent. at ll discount, although guaranteed for
15 years, and the 5f per cent., although guaran-
teed for 20 years, was also at a discount. He contended
that the distrust which existed with reference to Indian
finance was produced by that administration, particularly
by the bill of 1854, which destroyed the confidence of the
natives, and the system in regard to dealing with finance
in India. That country should be regarded not as a colony
but a part of England, and all that was required to restore
public confidence was the adoption of the two talismanic
words " Imperial guarantee," in regard to raising any
money that might be required.
Mr. GLYN suggested the introductionof a clause in the
bill to enable the present holders of debentures to convert
the same from time to time into the new stock. That course
would not only relieve the debenture market, but be pro-
ductive of other advantages, and if not adopted this session
he hoped that next year it would be carried out.
tatemen as
Sir E. objectedCOLEßßOoKEfora
ctl D
oaathresadoptiont of anto ini-
perial guarantee, and called
evonport was to othe
position which the hon. member
for
c-
cupy in India.
thought they should
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished for information with
proceed with great caution.
ow this appointmentlne
rmed
and he
in whose hands rested the power of charging the revenue of
India.
pipnodsiead; taon
dt hh
Mr. W. WILLIAMS considered that the depressed state
of Indian finance was attributable to.the extravagant ex-
ile
believedu tr
giving any guarantee ilioeanws forwi u ponditure resorted to.
for
that, with proper management, the income of that country
would meet the expenditure. He strongly urged on the
Government
the necessity for a reduction of the
army in
India and other retrenchments.
Sir C. WOOD said with reference to the question of an
imperial guarantee, it was deserving of consideration, but
the Government was not prepared to give any such gua-
rantee at present. With regard to the appointment
alluded to, he hoped his hon. friend the
member for De-
vonport would be induced to.accept it.
Mr. VANSITTART—Has he accepted it?
Sir C. WOOD—He has not. He believed wou
ld
agree t all
a
agree that from the great commercial knowledge and gene-
ral ability of the hon. member for Deonp
one of the best qualified in the countryvfoort
for
that he was
appoint-
ment, and he hoped to be able shortlyy to announce his
acceptance of it. The Governor-General
and Council were
responsible for the expenditure in India, held
and whoever
the appointment would b
The bill be a member of that Council.
was then read a third time.
On the motion that the bill do pass,
Mr. NEWDEGATE drew attention to some irregularity
in the votes, which prevented them knowing accurately
when they would be required • and he wished to know what
course would be adopted relative to the Charitable Trusts

Acts Continuance Bill, which stood on the order of the day
for second reading.
The SPEAKER having explaine d th,lt when the house
met before two o'clock it adjourned tall six o'clock.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said he would move Cle second read.
ing of the bill at the proper time.

• .
The house resumed at six o'clock.
BEVERLEY ELECTION.
Mr. COBBETT brought up the report of the Bevs?.ley
Election Committee, unseating Mr. Ralph Walters, andile-
daring Mr. Henry Edwards to be duly elected. The e 5, m-
mittee further reported that Mr. Walters was by his agents
guilty of bribery at the last election, and that a practice ;ap-
peared to prevail in the borough of employing voters as
messengers. It was proved to the committee that at. the
last election bribery was systematically carried on by
two persons named Daniel Boyce and Robert Taylor, nd
the committee recommended that those persons 'should
be prosecuted. They further recommended that no ikew
writ should issue for the borough until the evidence'taken
before the committee was printed. -
NOTICES OF MOTION.
Mr. JOHN LocHl3, for next session, to move for a seAect
committee to inquire whether the conditions under wtich
the artificers of the Land Transport Corps were enlistedFand
discharged had been fulfilled, and into the truth of the alle-
gations contained in their petition to the house.
Mr. BRADY, for next session, to call attention to the eipe •
ration of the edical Registration Act.

Sir DE L. EvaNs, for next sessiOn, to move an adilt-ess
to the Crown, praying her Majesty to direct an inquiry to
take place into the expediency of abolishing the sale-and
purchase of commissions in the army.
t Lord NAAS, for next session, to move for leave to bring
in a bill for the better registration of births, deaths, and
marriages in Ireland.
THE ANNUITY TAX.

Mr. HADFIELD asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department whether the Edinburgh clergy were
compelling payment of the annuity tax by imprisonment ?
Sir G. LEWIS had received no information on the
subject.
MASTERS AND OPERATIVES.
Mr. MACKINNON moved for leave to bring in a bill to
establish equitable councils of conciliation to adjust differ-
ences between masters and operatives. He made the mo •
tion at this late period of the session because he was anxious
to have the bill printed, to afford members and the public
in general an opportunity of considering its provisionsdur-
ing the recess, with a view to legislating upon the subject
early next session. Two years ago it was thought advis-
able that a committee should be appointed to take the .sub-
ject into consideration, and he had the honour of being ap-
pointed chairman of the committee. The matter was then
most diligently investigated ; many witnesses were called
before the committee, consisting of both masters and ope-
ratives. The committee had no interest in the question
beyond arriving at the truth, and doing justice to all par-
ties. They examined a great number of masters, some of
whom were favourable, and others unfavourable to the
establishment of equitable councils ; but the preponderance
of their evidence was rather against than in favour of such
councils. The committee also examined many operatives
of different classes ; men of great intelligence and great
information, who had made themselves thoroughly ac-
quainted with the subject. Like the masters, they enter-
tained various opinions upon it, but the majority of
them were in favour of having these councils, and they
pointed out that, except in the metropolis, the present law
for settling disputes between masters and workmen was
wholly inoperative. The committee also received 'some
valuable reports on the subject from France and Belgium.
These reports showed that equitable councils had been com-
pletely successful in those countries. It appeared from the
French report that between 1850 and 1851 the number of
disputes which arose in France between masters and ope-
ratives was 28,000, and of these 26,800 were settled by
counciie of conciliation. Now what would, have been the
result of such a law as this if it had been passed two years
ago ? Why it would have averted the present strike in the
building trade. He was perfectly satisfied that had equita-
ble councils been in existence there would have been no
strike. The dispute would have been settled without re-
course to such an extreme measure. The hon. member
concluded by moving for leave to bring in the bill.
Agreed to. '
ARMY PRESBYTERIAN CHAPLAINS.
AOn the motion of Mr. ARNOTT an address was ordered
fur the return of correspondence which took place during
the year 1858, between the Moderator of the General As-
Seinbly of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, or any mem-
ber of that church, and the Secretary of State for War, or
any other official persons, regarding the appointment of
ministers of that church to the office of chaplain or assis-
tant chaplain of her Majesty's forces.
PRIVATE BILLS.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS moved that standing order No. 34
be amended by inserting after the words "adjoining there-
to " these words, " or in case of any place within the limits
of the metropolis, as defined by the act 18 and 19 'Vic., c.
120, intituled, An Act for the better Local Management of
the Metropolis,' with the clerk of the vestry of each parish
in schedule A, and with the clerk of the district board of
parishes, in schedule B of the said act."—Agreed to.
CASE OF PRIVATE JAMES CAULFIELD.

Mr. J. LOCKE rose to call the attention of the house to
the case of enlistment, in her Majesty's 96th Regiment of
Foot, of the late Private Jas. Caulfield, who, when. under
15 years of age, was enlisted in that regiment at Wes tmin-
ster, on the 23d of Sept., 1857 ; and, his discharge b aving
been refused, he died from the rigours of discipline at Park-
hurst Hospital on the 21st of July, 1858. The hon. mem-
ber in making the motion said that, but for the lateness of
the session, he would have asked for a select come 'Wee.
He was induced to take up the matter in consequence► of the
petition of John Caulfield,
.the father of the deceased, and
the representations of several respectable individualls, who
took an interest in the matter: It appeared that the de-
ceased James Caulfield, being under lb years of of had
been enlisted by a Sergeant Thomas.
The SPEAKER interrupted the hon. member. He
could not make a statement unless he intended to conclude
with a motion.

Mr: LOCKE would then move for a select committee.
The petitioner complained that his son, being wider 15
years of age, had been enlisted by Sergeant Thomas for the
96th Regiment of Foot, the latter making to the magistrate
a rexesentation that the youth was 18 years of age, under
whiff' age his enlistment would have been illegal. The mo-
ther was subsequently prevented by Sergeant Thomas from
proving her son's real age, and Sergeant Thomas w-as also
accused of-having represented to the boy that he would
have Is. 3d. a day and free rations. Young Caulfield was
sent to the regiment in the Isle of Wight, where the 'labour
of a private soldier proved too much for his tenda • age.
He got ill and his father applied for his discharge, but was
put off on various grounds, and in the meantime the boy,
who had been removed to Parkhurst, died. _ _

An HON. MEMBER moved that the house be counted, and
40 members not being present, the house adjourned.

READING .RACES.—(This Day.)

(B ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.)

ABBEY STAKES.

Chero Arnie .... 1
White Rose _

Four ran.
BERKSHIRE STAKES.

Lifeboat ••
York

Queen Bess

J

. Six ran.
BULMERSHE. PLATE.