The Sun.
London, England, 1861-03-01 00:00:00

authority prevails. (Hear, hear.) That is a serious
dilemma, and it is not one for continuing the occupation
but for discontinuing it. I must add, however, that the
French Minister for Foreign Affairs has different accounts
from the Lebanon, and does not believe one word of the
statements which have reached us. The Count de Flahaut,
a man who had distinguished himself in the wars of the
first empire, was naturally shocked at such an imputation.
He could not bear that the honour of the French army
should be called in question, and he was naturally and justly
indignant. I can only say that I don't think that whilst the
French occupation continues we can have any remedy
against acts of individual vengeance, and that the only
remedy for these murders of the Druses would be an aban-
donment of the occupation. The hon. member for Ayrshire
has mentioned the case of Seyd Bey. I believe that that
man is innocent of the atrocities with which he is charged.
Lord Dufferin has used every exertion to secure for him a
fair trial, and, I have no doubt, will continue those efforts,
so that I expect that man's life will be saved. (Hear, hear.)
This case discloses the peculiar defects of the Turkish mode
of administering justice. They know nothing of our system
of bringing the accuser and the accused face to face. Such
things as cross-examination and other means used by us for
eliciting the truth are unknown in Turkey. They say " a
crime has been committed, a life has been taken, and a pri-
soner has been secured. It makes no matter whether the
accused is guilty or not, we shall have a life for a life, and
the public will be satisfied." (A laugh.) Let it be remem-
bered also that with regard to the Druses and Maronites
the Turks would not willingly see either independent of the
other, and therefore when the French say, " Let the Druses
be punished," the Turks are quite willing ; and if on the
other hand the English say, " These Maronites have com-
mitted /serious offences and must not be intrusted with
power," the Turks are equally willing, for their opinion is
that in the Lebanon the Turkish authority should over-ride
both. (Hear.) Amongst all these conflicting influences, it
is very hard at any time to obtain justice. (Hear.) I can
say but little respecting the conference of Paris ; I can only
add to what I have already stated that when the conference
met the French Minister for Foreign Affairs on the autho-
rity of his official despatches, stated that serious apprehen-
sions of another outbreak were entertained in Syria—of
another outbreak the moment the French troops were re-
moved. That statement having been laid before the confer-
ence, the Turkish ambassador said, on the other hand, that
he believed the tranquillity of the district to have been re-
stored, that the Turkish power was quite sufficient to main-
tain it, and that he saw no reason why the occupation aliould
not end at the time appointed. At a further discussion the
ambassador of Austria, wishing to maintain the indepen-
dence of Turkey, said that some time might be fixed when
the Lebanon was more tranquil, until which the French
troops should remain, and suggested that the Ist of May
should be fixed. The Turkish ambassador received the
proposition, and was willing to transmit it to his court
for consideration, and there the matter rests ; the pro-
posal has been transmitted, but at the Turkish court
nothing has been decided. I quite agree as to all that has
been said of the expediency of an early evacuation. (Hear,
hear.) We must, of course, act partly for ourselves, but
partly in combination with the other great Powers, more
especially with Austria, which in these and all former dis •
cussions has shown a sincere desire to maintain the inde-
pendence of Turkey. I say nothing of other Powers, but
I believe that Austria is sincere in her good wish. I will
certainly use my best endeavours to put an end to this oc-
cupation. I .believe it was useful at the beginning, not
only in the places I have mentioned, but in other parts of
the Turkish empire, when there was a notion that but for
it massacres might have occurred which would have been
attended with dreadful consequences to Turkey itself. Now,
however, the danger and the occasion have passed away,
and I wish to see the occupation at an end.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD explained that the pacha to
whom he alluded was the present, not the late Governor of
Damascus.

Mr. CONINGHAM said that the explanation of the
noble lord opened much wider questions than the occupa-
tion of the Lebanon. He believed if a policy of non-inter-
vention had been followed in the case of Turkey as in that
of Italy, the Turks would have been quite able to manage
their own affairs. The real European question was which
Power should have the initiation in a scheme of European
policy, and the French Emperor, in seeking to obtain that
initiation, was only maintaining properly the honour of his
nation. He (Mr. Coningham) complained that her Ma-
jesty's Government pursued a timid and paltry policy,
siding with liberty in one place and despotism in another,
and he trusted they would change it for a bold and
straightforward one, not only in Italy, but throughout the
world.