The Sun.
London, England, 1857-10-30 00:00:00

LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 30, 1857.

OPINIONS OF 111.P.s ON THE INDIAN

MUTINIES.

MR. LABOUCHERE.
On Monday last, at a meeting at Taunton, pre-
sided over by Mr. Kinglake, M.P., the author of
E6then.

Mr. LABOUCHERB, in responding to the toast of
" The members for the borough of Taunton,"
spoke at some length upon the subject of the day—
the Indian mutiny. It was far from his intention
to enter into any discussion of the causes of that
mutiny; but he could not help saying—and he was
persuaded that he was not speaking his own senti-
ments only, but those of every man who heard him,
when he said—it was an honourable distinction of
the times in which they lived, that whatever party
differences might exietmong them, and whatever
divisions there were in England upon questions
which arose suddenly among them,- in the face of
any great public difficulty and danger they were
united as one man. (Cheers.) Englishmen pre-
sented their closed ranks on all great occasions of
national peril, and whether it came upon them in
the form of a foreign aggression or in the shape of
this great Indian calamity, they assumed the ap
penance of a noble and united phalanx. (Cheers.)
Those events had excited in that town not only the
interest they could not but all feel as Englishmen,
but also a painful anxiety among many families
there who had been grievous sufferers by the
calamity ; and the horrors of it had been brought
home to their bosoms by the accounts of the un-
paralleled sufferings of their countrymen and
countrywomen, which they bad received from time
to time. He begged them to believe that the mem-
bers of hi.r Jkletietes,Government were viuteervur-
• -4,
nag to the best of their ability to discharge the
great duty which devolved upon them at
.this mo-
mentous crisis. At present it was their determi-
nation boldly' to confront the danger, and to
assert the law and authority of British rule in that
country. (Cheers.) They were all aware under
what circumstances the Indian insurrection took
place. Undoubtedly it took them by surprise ;
and for some time our countrymeu—a mere hand-
ful of men—were left to enter upon one of the
most tremendous struggles which we had ever
had to encounter. The first assistance came from
Englishmen, but not from England. There were,
fortunately, in parts of the world nearer India than
England the means ofsending help to our countrymen
in India. It so happened that a large expedition
was going to China under Lord Elgin, and Lord'
Elgin, with a promptitude and energy whicli-did
him infinite credit, without waiting orders from.
England, as soon as he heard of the state of mat--
ters in India, made the best of his way with the
troops to the scene of the disorder. .(Cheers.) He
(Mr. Labouchere) might also say, connected as he
was with the colonies, that this country was under
a deep debt of gratitude to the Governers.of Ceylon,
the Mauritius, and the Cape, for the timely suc-
cour and assistance, afforded by them. His friend,
the Governor of Ceylon, surrounded by a large
body of natives, at once despatched almost every
European soldier he had iu Ceylon in order to lend
the most timely aid to the Governor of Bengal ;
and in like manner the Governor of the Mauritius
sent off two regiments, the arrival of which in In-
dia he verily believed had the effect of preserving
the peace in the district where they landed ; while
the Governor of the Cape supplied a much larger
force. Most fortunately, at the tinie when those
events happened in India, the danger of a great
Kafir war was no longer imminent ; Sir G. Grey
was therefore enabled to send off four regiments to
India, and he (Mr. Labouchere) hoped he would be
able to contribute still further forces. He thought
the conduct of the English colonists at the Cape
was beyond all praise, coming ferward and volun-
teer:ng as they had done to perform garrison duty,
besides contributing money, to send the earliest and
greatest amount of assistance at a time when no
soldiers had yet arrived from England. (Cheers.)
That fearful interval of apprehension and anxiety,
he trusted, was now at an end, because they had
the assurance that thousands of English troops
would have, ere that time, been landed on the soil
of India ; and he hoped that henceforward the ti '-
ings they might receive from India would be those
of the gradual re-establishment of peace and order
in that great country. (Cheers.) It was not for him
to presume to predict the result. _Diet was yet in
the hands of Providence alone. Every hour might
bring them accounts from the scene of ac.ion that
the expecte• ions which they had reason to form had
been realised. But he felt confident that the
Government of this country would not fail Id Act
up to their fearful responsinnittes, whim -meg oe-
lieved were not lessened, but increased, by the man-
ner in which they (the Government) had been sup-
ported by all parties in the country. He acknow-
ledged that it was the duty of the Government
not only to put down this rebellion and to esta-
blish Jaw and order, but to look dosely into the
causes by which it has been produced, and to ex-
amine narrowly the circumstances of the Indian
Government, not only in its military organisation,
Ludt the civil administration of the affairs of that
country. (Cheers.) That duty, he thought, the
Government were prepared to undertake, and
nothing, he trusted, would be wanting on their
part to the fulfilment of it, in the full confidence
that they will be supported by the country.
(Cheers.)

he had received from the town on every occasion
of his having. presented himself. He felt pleased
that, meeting
as - they did for a philanthropic
object, the gloom vhioh had overspread the
face of the country, in . consequence, of re-
cent disastrous events appeared to be about to dis-
perse. It was a matt& of pleasure and also of con-
gratulation that at length those clouds which had
obscured the horizon smined gradually to brighten,
and he trusted would soon disperse. (Cheers.)
They must congratulate themselves that while those
clouds still hung over them, and while the assist-
ance of all right-minded and. good-feeling men
throughout the land was required, the borough of
Reading- was not behind band- (Cheers.). They
had seen the magnificent and truly philanthropic
smbscription from this borough, which added- to
the credit it had alreadf maintained. He sincerely
hoped that we had heard the worst of the news
which was to come upon us from the far-distant re-
gions of India. (Hear.) He thought that it must
be a subject of pride and congratulation, in the
midst of the mi-foi tunes that had fallen upon us,
to consider that those very misfortunes had given
rise to displays
of English courage, energy,
effort, and perseverance which must impress the
nations of the world with the conviction that
the prestige of England bad in no way diminished.
(Cheers.) We had seen some instances in India nut
merely of military glory, but instances of courage,
energy, and of perseverance upon the part of that
handful of Europeans who remained in that mighty
empire without extraneous applause that must have
sty uck all Europe with admiration. (Applause.) It
was a subject of the deepest congratulation—he
would say of thankfulness also, that the great event
which had lately talc.9fplokcs 'Nisi the datitruction of
-the-ittififriiharof those miscreants that polse:Sedi
it, and the utter annihilation of the shambles in I
which those batch() aof humanity revelled. (Ap-
plause.) It was a subject of congratulation to think
that that had been achieved '&ore the arrival of one
of the 40,000 bayonets despatched from this country
across the seas to their assistance. He would say
that the effort which seat across those 40,000 men
within the short space of a few weeks after the news
arrived, which found this country disarmed and in
its peaceful garb, when this country had reduced
its war establishment upon the proper cry of the
people, in which cry the town of Reading and
himsel took part—he would say that when taxa-
tion was reduced and the coui.try was disarmed, the
effort made by the Government of the country in
sending out the enormous force it did under such
circumstances, and at such a time, across the wide
ocean to vindicate the rights and honour of this
country was without parallel in the history of Eng-
land. (Applause.) The Solicitor-General after-
wards dilated upon topics which were only of local
interest.

iTHE EARL OF HARROWBY.
At the annual dinner of the Sandon and Mar-
ston Agricultural Society, at &Loden, on Wednes-
day, the Right Hoy. the Earl of Harrowby, in pro-
posing " The Health of the Army and Navy,"
spoke as follows :—I cannot mention the army
without reverting to what our soldiers have been
and ate undergoing in India ; I cannot
mention the name of the army without thinking
of that distant land where our brave soldiers
are undergoing all the horrors of war, aggravated
by an unhealthy climate, and the treachery—I do
not know whetaer t ) say the treachery of friends
or of eeemies. The accounts of this mutiny have
reminded me" of the expression of the Psalmist—
"lf
it had been mine enemy that had done this I
could have borne it." If the calamity had come
upon us from some foreign foe it would have been
bad enough, but coming from our own subjects,
our-old familiar friends, it is doubly bard to bear.
Gentlemen, you know what
_difficulties our army
has had to encounter. Not only have our country-
men had to meet danger upon the open field, where
man meets man in honourable fight, regulated by
the common princip'es of warfare, but it has met
them is their own tents, around their own mess-
tables, amongst their own people, who had in many
cases deceived them by assurances of friendship and
fidelity. They were unprepared to meet the dm-
-1 ger ; they were scattered up and down in hundreds
and fifties ; they were surpri.ed, and had no time
to organise a plan of defence; they have met an
, enemy at every step, and found foes where they ex-
pected to find friends. Wel, gentlemen, how have
our countrymen behaved under these circum-
stances ? Their con,luot has rendered them objects
of affection and esteem to the 'r countrymen, and
has elicit el admiration nd applause even from the
moil jealous of our nsi . I."'"
br'tl4.—a t° t 'Laid
in agau 4..-nes t;at the o es sight the go en-
joyed was to s..e a good man struggling with ad
at
vers ty. Gentlemen, lam quite sure that the his-
tory of the world has furnished no nobler spectacle
for the admiration of either gods or men than that
exhibited by our gallant countrymen in India.
Taken by surprise, attacked by overwhelming
numbers, and without provisions or adequate
me ins of defence, they have yet manfully held their
own, waiting for succour to arrive. That succour,
gentlemen, I hope is nigh, and the worst is past.
Our few troops were at a diAance of half the world
d
from succour ; they were taken at the most un-
heal by season of the year ; they were totally un-
prepared for the danger. We had guarded against
danger from outward foes, but
not against trea-
chery within ; and when the native troops proved
tunfaithful we were almost Without Euro-
pean troops to fall back uP°"' But even
under difficulties like those our men have
been able to bold their own. (Cheers.) But for the
news of the last two days we could not have said
more than this ; but now we may PaY that not only
have they been able to hold their own, but they
have re-conquered the ancient capital of India.
(Loud cheers.) Gentlemen, I think now our anxie-
ties with regard to India
may be raid
to be almost
at an end. A continuous stream of British troops
has for some time been lauding upon the shores of
India ; and I am quite sure the next mail will bring
us flows of troops pouring in from all the different
presidencies, from Calcutta, Bombay, and Madras,
and up to the Indus, sufficient to re-establish every-
where the supremacy of Britain. Let us not forget,
in the feelings which naturally arise at the success-
ful termination of the sr,ruggl) our own shortcom-
ings. Very recently, when the war with Russia
broke out, and we were brought into contest with
the most powerful military nation in Europe, we
were taken unprepared. We then swore by all the
gods that we never would be taken in that way
again. But as soon as the war was over what was
the course we pursue; ? "Get rid of the income
tax—cut down the army—cut down the navy," was
the cry ; and in compliance with that demand the-
Government did reduce the army and navy until,
wben this mutiny broke out, we were entirely un-
prepared for it, and had hardly a soldier in the
country. Enough of this, gentlemen ; let us not
do so againn ee is ; let us in future not only be prepared
past, gentlem n, I hope that to make sacrifices in the face of danger, but when
the dg
lessons
from the Crimea and from India will not be thrown
a.
away upon us, and that we shall not be found
tion of the present mutiny from the quesun-
prepared in future. It is difficult to separate the
considera-
tion of the future government of India. It is, of
course, impossible at this moment to fix the precise
limits of the struggle ; but there is no doubt our
rule will be re-established over that country ; and
then will come the important duty of re-organising
our government over 130,000,000 of people. The
government of India is a problem of which the his-
tory of the world. furnishes no solution ; and our
indulgence is demanded for those upon whom the
task of reconstituting our government in that
country
not been done for India in the
way o
No doubt more might have
been done,
must bear in mind the difficulty
ngmoev it through the
n would be ruined
way
been
rfy
thatmaymb improvement.ou frtae l
you
It has been a subject of reproach
o us has
0u
arising from the danger of offending the prejudices
and outraging the feelings of the natives, while we
were obliged to govern by the aid of the natives
sgmovu rt ern
themselves. If we hada sufficient number of Euro-
pean troops to govern the country the case would be
ffo impossible ; the
t
bdfip
yeni
finances
eeeenstat,
tehotf
ebt
nt
attempt.
etplv. tnehdsa,i tlayiemanifestlythroughes their own feelings and
prejudices, or give up the attempt to govern it at
all. The noble lord, after a few other observations,
directed attention t 9 the beneficial change Effected
in the moral character of our soldiers d wring the past
few years, and concluded by proposing the toast
above referred to, which was enthusiastically re-
ceived.

MR. DRUMMOND.
The fourth anniversary of the Dorking Agricul-
tural Association was celebrated to-day ; and after
the usual plougbilig matches, he., the members
and friends dined at the Three Tuns Inn.
The usual loyal and patriotic toasts having been
given,
The Chairmanproposed the health of the County
Members.
Mr.t spoke as follows ;
Mr.
gnh ce u 3 unfortunate
membors: in rather an awkward position (a
You ask us to come to-..what 1.;•-to the
icy)

anniversary of an agricultural society; not that we
are agriculturists or-practical farmers, but merely
because we are county members. And allow me to
ask what do county members-know about Mai-ngoll-
wurtzel ? (Laughter.) I suppose we are invited
because we are expected to say something about
Delhi land Cawnpore ; but my friend has ,said no-
thing political is allowed. Well, I will promise not
to say anything about Delhi or Cawnpore tonight.
I will Stick to farming on this occasion at any rate.
(A laugh.) I like those cups that have been dis-
tributed this evening, but 1 hardly admire them
empty, (Laughter:) I should like to see them
filled with real good ale, such as I used to have
when I was a young man—ale of 10 busbcils to the
hogshead—that was the thing when I was young ;
but it has now gone clean out of the county, for I
don't know where it is to be found—in fact, I don't
believeit is to be found in the county. It has .4seen said
that the longer we live the more we advance. That
may be true to some extent, but we don't 'advance
in all things—at least not in beer. (Laughter.)
But you must advance ; you must leave ;nothing
undone that you ought or can do. It is all very
well-for a boarding-school girl to say, "I have only
another year to stay and my education will be
finished." That might do for her, but not for a
-man with any brains at all. (Laughter.) A man
never has his education finished, and all L can say
to you in this room is, that it you do not farm better
now than you did ten years ago you must be great
dolts indeed. (Laughter.) I see on one of the
banners here the words, " Scientific Agriculture."
Well, that means that you must- experimentalise.
You cannot do anything without experiments.
You cannot advance in yOur undertakings ; you
-0 tnnnt effect any grand improvements ; you eau.ngA
`h-ope to -succeed, without you make experiment-.
It is to the results of experiments you must look
for advancement and success. You mayi talk of
education ; but what is the use of all your educa-
tion without you put it to some practical use ?
lam no enemy of education ; but I am an enemy
to cant and humbug wherever I find it—(ltaughter)
—and I think the present system of education iu
your schools is nathing more than rank übnsense.
I want to see every class of soci3ty, everyb&ly edu
sated. The farmers need some additional educa-
tion, and I should like them to have it and their
children, too, and the children of the peasant popu-
lation I should like to see better educated. But I
want to see them have a practical and useful edu-
cttion ; and one great feature is, to make the girls
cook and wash, which many of them tort daily can
not do at the present time. (Laughter.) It is no
good talking about education without you are pre-
pared to teach something practical and useful.
As I before said, lam n enemy of educ ttion ; but
my opposition certainly extends to the preeent use-
less system adopted in many instances. I went to
two miniwers of the Crown last year, when an
immense number of skilled artisans were put of
employment at Woolerich, and what do you think
those two fellows told me ? (A laugh.)` Why,
they told we that labour would find its leVel, like
water. Very likely • but rater did not have a
wife and seven children. (Much laughter.)
It is all humbug to talk about supply and demand.
(A. laugh.) I have no doubt that in the course of
dole, the Dorking labourers may be comp/ailed to
go to Liverpool for employment ; but if they wait
until Liverpool can employ them all, I am afraid
many will die of starvation before the day arrives.
There is no doubt, however, that you are better
farmers than the round frock farmers- used to be.
But where is the round frock ? Ido not I,lre to see
that superseded. It has, however, gone out of fa-
shion of late; but I do not know the reason why.
A similar change has taken place in Scotland since
Englishmen took to grouse shorting in that part of
the United Kingdom, for at the present time not a
kilt is to be seen but what are worn by Englishmen.
(Laughter.) But lam tiring you, I will, however,
again impress upon you the necessity of becoming
scientific agriculturists. You must learn to know
what you require, and how to apply it when you
have obtained it. There is a medical man sitting at
this table ; but what good would he he if he did
not know what to do when called upon It was no
use when one child was siec here and another there,
for the doctor to say tie did not know what was the
matter with them, but to give them physic merely
because it was physic, without knowing what effect
it would have. So with you—you must learn to
know what your lard and what your roots .require
before you apply your present rem -dy for all ills—
dung (laughter), merely because it is dung - and
what is dung ? Only something that stinks. (Much
laughter.) You mast find out what your turnips
and your mangolds retpire"
sans d truces., -

- - -
-one ougut to 't
treated quite in a different manner. it Is tt tze,
perhaps, that a man, after 40, never get a new idea;
but you have sons and daughters ; you must sea
that they don't fall into the same errors as those
who went before them. Forty years ago it was a
rare thing to get wheat weighing 601 b. to the bushel;
now, however, nothing is thought of 66:b3. ; but let
me till you that you are cultivating more wheat
than you are mutton. (Laughter.) You can't go on
in this way much longer ; for what is supposed to be
mutton now is made of great lambs, and is not
mutton at all. Another thing! wish to say a word
or two upon—namely, the improved dwellings for
farm labourers. My friend here (Mr. Hop-) is as
rich as Crcesus—(laughter)—and what is more for-
tunate, he is a very benevolent than ; and so he
builds very fine cottages. But there is a very im-
portant question to be asked, how does the system
pay ? You can't look for more than 3/. per year
rent for your cottages from farm labourers. No
doubt some charge more ; but that is wrong ; 31.
is as much as you ought to. expo .t to receive.
Well, then, if you build large 'houses how is it to
pay ? Houses must be warmed—not that I believe
any person in this or any other wood county buys
fuel, because they can steal it. (Laughter.) They
have only to step over a hedge into any person's
fie!d, and they can find as much as they like; and
of course any person living in a wood country wou'd
be a fool to buy any fuel when he can get it for no-
thing. (Laughter.) So in the north, where people
lived at the mouth of the coal-pit ;of course they
did not purchase fuel. But fuel cannot always be
had for nothing, so that it will b 3 useless to build
large houses with great windows- if the people in-
tending to occupy them have nothing to warm them.
All these are practical questions of detail ; but
they aro worthy of consideration, and the whole
wisdom consists in their successful application.
Several other toasts having been given and re-
sponded to, _ _

- A tdstimontal, consisting of a magnificent tea and
coffee service, was presented to Mr. T. Page, the
hon. secretary, for his indefatigable exertions in
carrying on the affairs of the association.
The proceedings were continued until an advanced
hour of the evening.

THE MEMBERS FOR EAST SUFFOLK.
Mr. W. MILES, M.P., in acknowledging his
health at the meeting of the Farrington Gurney
Agricultural Association, said, that on an occasion
like the present, it was generally expected that a
representative should declare his opinion on the
most important public measures of, the day. He
believed that if ever there was a question on which
unanimity prevailed throughout the country among
all classes, it was that of the Indian mutiny. They
could not but look back with horror andthe deepest
disgust at what had taken place in that country
—a country in which we had been known for up-
wards of a century as Englishmen—a country iu
which we had endeavoured as much as we possibly
could, and with great success, to educate, and at
the same time, as far as Government could, to do
goodto the natives ; and yet, when little expected,
though foreseen by some who had been many years
resident there, a mutiny had broken out which
had put in' jeopardy our Indian empire,
and in which had been exhibited horrors
of the most detestable character. He was always for
mercy when mercy could be fairly meted out, but
one cry had gone through this country-rthat of
summary vengeance upon such scoundrels as, de-
spising our rule, had wreaked their vengeance on
unoffending women and children. Not only our
countrymen, but our countrywomen and their chil-
dren, have been massacred, and, until a thorough
expiation took place, England, he was proud to
think, would never be satisfitd. That a great
change must take place in the Government of India
he had no doubt ; that was a subject which was
growing in the minds of "all men who gave it the
least consideration. At present, however, they
had nothing to do with what the future Govern.
meat of India should be. But of this he thought
there could be Ito doubt, that a double Government
could no longer exist that the Queen must rule su-
preme in that country, and the whole of the Minis-
ters must be subject to the o mtrol of public opinion
rather than under an Indian Board. The chairman
had alluded to the heroisni of those little bands who
had withstood such onslaughts in India. Great as
had been their prowess, did it not strike all who
had thought upon the subject that if a Providence
from on high had not directed their hands—if the
Almighty, whom we revered, had not been with
them, their strength would have been idle, and no
longer should we have maintained our dominion. in