The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-12 00:00:00

THE SAILORS' BOUNTY.

Sir J. PAIZINGTON said that before the house went
into committee, he wishM to put a question to his noble
friend with regard to the announcement he made respect-
ing the retrospective extension of the bounty to seamen
in her Majesty's navy. He heard the announcement with
surprise on Friday night, and subsequent reflection had not
at all diminished the doubt and, he would add, the disap-
pointment with which he heard that announcment. His
noble friend had not given the reasons which induced the
Government to make this change. He was the more sur-
prised at this, as on the very Friday the noble had given
this advice, the Queen issued au order in council to carry
out the change, so that they must have known the reasons
which induced them to make it.

The SPEAKER said that the house always allowed con-
siderable indulgence to speakers on the question of the
Speaker leaving the chair ; but he thought the right hon.
gentleman was passing beyond the line in replying in the
house to a debate which took place in committee.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he should bow to any rule
which the Speaker laid down ; and he should sit down by
asking his noble friend what he thought would be the finan-
cial result of the change. •
Lord C. PAGET said the best proof he could give to the
house that he did explain to some extent the reasons which
induced the Government to extend the bounty was that the
right honourable gentleman, in a speech of some length,
bad been answering the reasons he had given. (Laughter.)
The right hon. gentleman asked why he had not entered
into more details. The fact was, he was not in a positionto
enter into all the details he could have wished on that occa-
sion. He was in possession of the decision of the cabinet,
but the order in council was not in his hands at the time,
and he was anxious not to state anything to the house
which could lead to a mistake. (Hear.) He regretted that
the right hon. gentleman had not adopted the advice he
gave him to postpone his question till he brought in the
estimates, which he should do inafew days. At the present
time it was impossible far him to state the exact amount,
as it would depend on the men accepting this county on
certain conditions. Some might accept and some might re-
fuse it. It was therefore impossible to say at present what
the exact amount was. He trusted that he would be ex-
cused, under these circumstances, from entering further
into the matter on that occasion, as the house would have
an opportunity of • discussing it when the estimate was
before them. (Cheers.)

THE ARMY.
World DICKSON wished to ask the late Secretary for
War, whether he had noticed a letter in the Times of the
Bth inst., signed an " Officer Commanding a Regiment,"
and dated Portsmouth; and whether in the statement
which he made of our forces at home on the evening of the
sth inst., he included marines ashore, recruits in readiness
for India. enrolled pension. rs, and Irish police ?
General PEEL thought it was a great misfortune that
the time of the house should be occupied in answering
questions arisiug out of anonymous publications. For his
part, he always treated letters of that sort with the greatest
possible coutoupt. (Hear, hear.) He was ghd, however,
that the question had been asked, as it was desirable that
the country should know the exact state of the army. In
answer to the hog. member for Surrey, a few evenings ago,
he had stated the disposable force as 110,000 men ; in that
he had not included the marines, or the enrolled pensioners
although he believed they were fit for much better service
than the writer stated, nor had he included the Irish con-
stabulary, or the recruits for India. He held in his hand
the last return 'showing the state of the British army on
the Ist of June. It appears the numbers on that day were—
Cavalry, 11,698; Foot Guards, 6,184; infantry, 50,032;
Horie Artillery, 1,749 ; Foot Artillery, 12,669 ; Royal En-
gineers, 1,854; Military Train, 1,861; Medical Staff Corps,

375 ;- and embodied militia, 23,218 ; total, 109,640 ; or, ex-
cluding tb e embodied militia, 86,422. The officer, who stated
he commanded a regiment (a fact which he very much
doubted) described the artillery as being in a disgraceful
state. What was the fact ? The number in this country was
14,500, and besides that, there were 5,000 militia artillery,
and he had the authority of the Commander-in-Chief and
Adjutant-General for stating that the force was in a state
of superior efficiency. In addition to the 184 guns attached
to the batteries there wore 110 guns in store fully equipped
with their ammunition waggons, so that he was justified in
saying that the artillery was in a far more efficient state
than it had been for many years past. (Hear.)

. THE NAVAL ESTIMATES.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that having devoted some time to
the consideration of the estimates he was anxious to offer a
few observations on them. They were above those of any
year of peace for the last 40 years. He would not compare
them with those for 1835 or any year about that time. He
would take as a comparison those of 1852, the year before
we commenced preparations for the Russian war. In 1852
the navy estimates amounted to £5,668,000 ; this year they
were £12,862,000, being an increase of £7,200,000. They
were told that the increase in the navy estimate
was owing to the introduction of a new element
into naval warfare by the invention of the screw.
(Hear.) That was introduced in 1851; in 1852 we had
five screw line-of-battle ships. France had two for that
year. The Government of this country and that of France
had run a race in building ships. What was the result ? It
appeared that this country and France were as regarded
line-of-battle ships at the present time on an equality;
whilst France, as regarded frigates, had eight more. They
were informed by the late First Lord and by the present Se-
cretary to the Admiralty that next year this country would
have 50 line-of-battle ships, and France only 40 ; but as she
would have more cased vessels, there would in reality be
scarcely any difference. The naval expenditure of France
for this year was only £4,920,000; that of this country was
£13,297,000. Last year the expenditure exceeded the amount
voted by £BOO,OOO. The bounty of £lO for able seamen had
beer now offered for three or four months, but only 1,400
men had joined, although the hon. member for Sunderland
had informed them that owing to the depression in the
mercantile marine, crowds of these men were wandering
about the streets ; why did they not enter the navy ? The
cause was to be found in the existence of the degrading
system of flogging. By the returns which he had moved
for, he found that on board one ship, the Princess Royal,
no less than 53 men were flogged last year, receiving 2,141
lashes. In some ships only one man was flogged, and in a
few none at all. This difference could not be produced by
any difference in the character of the men, it must be owing
to the difference in the character of the captains ; some were
humane beings, others were heartless tyrants. Such a man
as the captain of the Princess Royal would not get his ship
manned in a lifetime, if hit character was known; such
were not men of first-rate pluck; humanity and courage
always went together. From the army returns it appeared
that last year 112 men were flogged, receiving 5,200 lashes,
but in the navy in 1854 the number was 1,214, receiving
35,800 lashez, ; of these only 196 were in acted by sentence
of a court-martial; in 1855 the number of lashes in-
flicted was 42.000, of which only 406 were by order
of court-martial ; in 1856 the number was 44,000, of
which only 619 were by sentence of a court ; in 1857, the
last year for which there was a return, the number was
3,5,000, of which 334 were ordered by courts-martial. He
was convinced this was the great impediment to the entry
of men ; if it were necessary to maintain the system of
flogging, let the army rule be introduced that the punish-
ment can only bo inflicted by the sentence of a court-mar-
tial. (Hear.) It was stated that the crew of the American
frigate Constitution, which took the Java, the first capture
made in the war of 1814, was entirely composed of men who
had been in the British navy, and every one of whom had
been flogged. He had seen Commodore Stewart, the com-
mander .of the Constitution, at Philadelphia, and he told
him that to get men for the navy of this country it would
be absolutely necessary to alter the system of punishment.
He was anxious to see the navy in such a state as would
remove the apprehension of even the most nervous person
in this country—(hear)—and therefore would not oppose
any of the proposed votes. (Hear, hear.)