The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-26 00:00:00

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..--343

The report on these estimates were brought up and
agreed to.

THE ARMY ESTIMATES.
On the motion tor going into committee of supply on

these estimates, -
Mr. WILLIA MS moved that the Army Estimates be
referred to a select committee. He contrasted the esti-

mates of the present year with those Of 1835 and 1852,
showing that they were higher now than at any former
period by some two or three millions sterling. The esti-
mates were five millions higher than they were in the
time of the Duke of Wellington in the last year of the un-
reformed Parl lament. He inveighed against the establish-
ments at Aldershott and Shorncliffe, where he said there
were six generals over some 2,000 men, and predicted
that in spite of all this expense another war would find
us as unprepared and inefficient as we were before. As
he did not think those estimates would be properly Ex-
amined in a committee of the whole house, he moved
that they be referred to a select committee.
After some general conversation the motion was nega-
tived without a division, and the house went into com-
mittee.

Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, according to the usual
course it would have been the duty of my hon. friend
the Under-Secretary for the War Department (Sir J.
Ramsden) to move the whole of these estimates ; but.

as my hon . friend has but recently come into office, and
has only been able to make himself master of the details
of these estimates, which he will clearly, and I doubt not
satisfactorily, explain item by item as they are proposed,
I thought it would be more satisfactory to the house that
a member of her Majesty's Government should give those
general explanations with regard to the principles that
regulate the amount of force which we propose shall be
maintained during the present year and generally in time
of peace. And therefore I trust that in departing from
the usual course—on the present occasion only—l have
not done that which is useless. (Hear.) I would state,
in the first place, that these estimates comprise estimates
which in former years, owing to the separation of the
departments, formed the subject of separate and
distinct estimates. They now contain everything con-
nected with the military departments—namely, those
expenses that were heretofore proposed under the
management of the Secretary at War, those that were

heretC-fore under the Ordnance Branch, and those con•
nected with the Commissariat, and which were under
the Treasury, and formed the subject of a separate vote.
. .

The house have therefore now the means of seeing p
one view the whole of the military expenditure. lam
sure that the hon. member for Lambeth did himself in-
justice when he said that from the alteration in the mode
of framing the estimates he was unable to make himself
master of the details. I am uuwilling to believe this
modest statement on his part —(a langb)—and I am sure
that these estimates, which are in substance the same as
those proposed before the dissolution of Parliament, are
not too much for the grasp of my hon. friend. (A. laugh.)
Sir, the first question that must naturally suggest itself to
those who are charged with the duty of proposing the
amount of the military establishments is what, under the
circumstances of the moment, is the establishment which,
on the one hand combines the greatest regard for eco-
uomy, and on the other, the greatest regard for the effi-
ciency of the service and the defence of the country.
Nov, it is a wed known maximthatif you wish for peace
you must be prepared for war—si vie paceia pars bellum.
In one sense I differ from that maxim ; in another I
think it is a sound maxim. If it is meant that this coun-
try should imitate the example of the great military mo-
narchies of the continent, and in time of peace maintain
a military establishment adequate to the emergencies of
actual war, I say that such a system would be ruinous
to the country and calculated to defeat the very object
for which it professes to be framed. When we see a great
country maintaining in time of peace armies of 300,000
or 400,000 men, we find that an unnecessary deduction
is made from the productive industry of the country by.
the abstraction of so many hands from useful labour.
An unnecessary drain is thus also made upon the pecu-
niary resources of the country, and we els° see that there
is a defect that counteracts the very object in view, be-
cause the people of those countries are accustomed to rely
entirely on large standing armies for the public service
wnenever an emergency shall occur, and they are there-
fore not imbued when it does occur with that enthusias-
tic public spirit which we have seen in this country rise
equal to any emergency which the accidental circum-
stances of the moment may require. Therefore the system
of large armies exhausts unnecessarily the financial re-
sources of the country, and prevents the development of
public spirit. Well, Sir. I should be sorry to sea any Go-
vernment in this country imitate the example of those
governments. If, on the other hand, we were solely to
consider what is necessary for the internal maintenance
of order, a very small military establiehment would be
sufficient, because here we do not rely as in some foreign
countries on the military system for the maintenance of
public order. There are civil means of enforcing an obe•
thence to the law which supersede in a great degree, i.
not entirely under ordinary circumstances, the action of'a
military force. But we must consider the peculiar cir-
cumstances ~f this country. We have not only our own
islands to defend, but we have possessions of great
value, of great political and commercial importance,
scattered over the most distant regions of the globe. We
must theiefore Consider what is necessary for the pro-
tection.of those possessions and of the country, not in
C. 1.13 otactual war, because that might require exertions
of a very different nature, but what is sufficient to pro-
tect us against attacks arising from not much previous
notice. Therefore the military establishments of the
country must be calculated to provide for the defence of
the country against any sudden and unexpected danger,
and to provide also a -sufficient defence for the colonial
possessions of the country. Our position'is one which,
without meaning to imply any doubt as to the con-
tinuance of peace, requires peculiar caution on our
part. These considerations were well explained by my
right honourable friend the First Lord of the Admiralty
in moving the Navy Estimates. We have close to us a
great military and naval Power—a Power far supe-
rior to us in her great military establishments—a
Power which is nearly equal to us in the amount of
her. naval establishments. And we must recollect
that modern improvements have in agreat degree altered
the conditions of both naval and military war. (Hear.)
The improvements in pr jectiles, the great improve-
ments in shipping, have altogether altered the relative
position of countries so near to each other. In former
times, when we were at war with France—long may it
be before that happens again I—the means of assault
were confined to the collection of a great number of sail-
ing boats in the ports of the Channel, of which notice
could be naturally given, and it was therefore easy for
the Government to take precautions against any danger
that might arise therefrom. But, as was stated by my
right hon. friend, there is now at Cherbourg the means
for collecting a large naval force. The ships which we
now build are of such magnitude that whereas formerly
only a few hundred men could be transported by one
ship now more than 1,000 or 1,200 can well come upon
one '1 eel. The circumstances of the country are pecu-
liarly fortunate. It is impossible for this country to rely
entirely fir its defence upon its naval means. (Hear.)
There must be within the territory of the country
I the means of effectually maintaining ourselves, even sup-
posing our naval protection to be denuded or ineffectual.
(Hear.) On the one hand I think it is the duty of the
Government (and if the Government neglected their duty
it would then become the duty of Parliament) to take
care that our military establishment is not numerical),
larger than is really required for the emergencies of the
time-; but, on the other hand, having, as we ought to
have, a comparatively small military establishment, it
ought to be so organised as to be capable of speedy and
great enlargement, and to contain within it those ele-
ments of science which are becoming every year more
necessary for military establishments. It should also be
so organised that those who may have to command it
should be practised in those military evolutions which
they may have to perform upon taking the field either
at home or abroad. Now, the great fault in our
military arrangements hitherto has been that they
have ended with the regimental system. (Hear,
hear.) But I may observe that our regimental sys-
tem is as perfect as that of any service in the world.
Nothing could be superior to the British regiments. I re-
member hearing the Duke of Wellington say that the
British soldiers led by the gentry of their country would
do anything that was within the scope of human beings
to accomplish. (Hear, hear.) If we wanted any examples
we should find them in the late war in the Crimea.
(Cheers.) Many of us have read that anecdote of tee
battle of Inkermann when the gallant soldiers, assailed
by numbers which to many other men would be over-
whelming, being almost exhausted, and their ammuni-
tion in a condition in which any troops might with hon-
our have retired, the cry went from one to the other,
" Well, lads, we must stand our ground ; for if we go
I back the girls of England will laugh at us." (Laughter.)
That simple expression of determination was just as
heroic as any of those more eloquent and inflated senti-
ments of patriotism which are to be met with is the
most eminently classical authors. Well, then, the ar-
rangements in our regiments were as good as possible,
but they were stopped. The condition of our army in a
time of peace precluded that practice of evolutions and
movements which belonged to larger bodies collected to-
gether. The brigade system and the divisional system
were studied in theory, but were seldom capable of being
practised in. the field. Those officers who have the g ,od
fortune to serve in India see these things on a larger
scale, but cur officers at home were compeded to study
them only theoretically in the closet ; and a man might
as well expect to learn how to swim by extending him-
self on a mahogany table, as to learn military evolutions
by reading books in his arm-chair by the fireside. (A.
Laugh.) A great and most important improvement was
made by the purchase of the land at Aldershott and by
the arrangements made there. The Governmenrcaused a
considerable number of troops to be collected there for
summer exercise. They were there organised in the
same manner in which they would be organized for ser-
vice in the field, 'in brigades and divisions; and by that
ma
on s the
e stiaaffracticy
officers
aT acnodnvethrsean t menw
itthhemthsoel:e opeshearvae.
1 lions and movements which before the greater part of
them only knew theoretically. Every Government en
the continent that has military establishments has in-
variably practised these collec • tions and exercises of
troops. The French, the Austrians, the Prussians, the
Russians, have invariably practised large bodies collected
together, and by that means have enabled th • eir general
officers and staff officers to acquire that practical
know-
ledge which is essential in Conducting the operations of