The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-08 00:00:00

troubled with cases from that country. In an act of last
session, relating to the Divorce Court, he introduced an
amendment that persons in Ireland might come to the
Divorce Court it they chose, and it met with approbation in
their lordships' house, but was struck out in the Commons.
He trusted that the noble and learned lord in his proposed
bill would give power to any person in Ireland who chose
to go to the Divorce Court instead of coming to that house.
The Earl of WICKLOW fully concurred with his noble
friend, and he hoped the noble and learned lord on the wool-
sack would consider the suggestion. He thought that the
amendment in question, which had met with so much ap-
probation from their lord ships, had become law, and he now
heard forthe first time that it was rejected by the otherhouse.
He thought the jurisdiction of the court should be extended
to Ireland, and that it was better that persons should come
from Ireland to the court than that a similar one should be
createdin Ireland.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that if he thought that
this course was desired In Ireland he would cheerfully adopt
the suggestion. He should be glad to throw open the court
to all the classes of persons that had been mentioned.
After a few words from Lord DENMAN the subject
i dropped.

Government with various steam packet gompanies '
for tho conveyance of the mails beyond the limits
of the United Kingdom; and likewise Into any agree-
monts or other arrangements 'which have been adopted at
the public ch arge, actual or prospective, for the purposes
of telegraphic communications beyond sea, and to report
their opimon thereon to the house; together with any re-
commendations as to rules to be observed hereafter by the
Government in making contracts for services which have
not yet been sanctioned by Parliament, or, which extend
over a series. of years ; power to report from time to time.
He said he did not suppose it was the wish of the house
that he should enter at great length upon the details of the
consideration which had induced her Majesty's Govern-
ment to think that it would be unwise to invite the House

of Commons to appoint this committee. He should confine
himself to stating in a few words the reasons, which were
of a general character. A considerable number of years ago
the practice of granting subsidies for terms of years for
what might be called ocean service and steam packet com-
panies arose, having at that period in a great degree the
character of an experiment, and having in view besides the
performance of packet service upon a scale that was alto-
gether novel, and likewise having in view' as might be in
the recollection of many hon. members, the adoption of
means which would aid in the defence of the country in
case of an emergency arising. The demand for the multi
plication of these services progressively extended, and a
very considerable charge was speedily brought upon the
estimates, so that what might be called ocean postage, in-
stead of being, like the postal service within the limits of
the United Kingdom, a source of considerable revenue to
the State, besides affording great accommodation to the pub-
lic, was, on the contrary, not only absorbed, but a consider-
able burden was thrown upon the people of this country.
He held in his hand the estimate for the present year. It
amounted to £988,488, or in round numbers a million of
money, a considerable portion of which was not recovered by
the sum received for the postage of letters. Now, there
were two questions of policy involved in this proceeding;
but the first proposition which he should submit to the
house was, he should think, an ample justification for the
motion he had brought forward. It was this, that inasmuch
as these proceedings had been taken by the Executive Go-
vernment, as they had not rested on any one definite set of
rules, and as at the same time they had been taken in anti-
cipation of the judgment of the house, he did not wish to
cast the slightest censure upon any government ; and, in-
deed, as far as he had examined the matter, he thought the
censure, if any, mustapply to all the governments that had
misted the last 12 or 15years—the practical effect had been
to oust the House of Commons from its jurisdiction over a
very important and extensive, and he might add a very cri-
tical description of public expenditure. Then, again, the
Government had not only been without the guidance of a
well-ascertained public opinion, and it had been all along a
matter very much controverted among intelligent and well
informed persons sometimes whether subsidies ought to
have been resorted to at all, or whether they had not been
continued for a longer time than necessity and public ex-
pediency pointed out. In consequence there had been very
great jealousy on the part of private traders who had not en-
joyed the benefit of these public subventions, and without
at all pretending to assert that these jealousies were well
founded, he thought it was obviousthat by the institution of
a well selected committee they would probably arrive at one
of two results. They might find either that those jealousies
had been well founded, and that contracts had been entered
into very needlessly ; on the other hand they might find
that the public advantage and public policy had been ably
consulted in all the measures that had been taken. The
examination of the question would materially tend to re -
move dissatisfaction. In the year 1853, at the time when
the Government of Lord Aberdeen took office, and when he
must admit the disposition, both on the part of the public
and of the house with regard to public expenditure was not
absolutely what it now is, his right hon. friend the member
for Carlisle, then First Lord of the Admiralty, and himself
holding the office he had now the honour to fill, was some-
what alarmed at the extent to which the charge for ocean
postage had then arrived. It was then he thought £830,000,
and her Majesty's Government appointed a commission for
the purpose of examining into the whole question, and of
making suggestions with regard to the policy thereafter to
be pursued. On the commission they had the advantage of
the services of Lord Canning, and of his hon. friend opposite
(Sir Stafford Northcote), and his right hon. friend behind
him, the member for Hertford, who at the time held office
under the Crown. The general effect of the report of the
commission was that the hands of the Government were to a
great extent tied by the nature of the contracts that existed,
yet that something might be done for the alleviation of the
charge. He had no doubt that the report of that commis-
sion tended to give satisfaction both to the House of Com-
mons and to those who entertained jealous feelings out of
doors. But the course of their subseqnent proceedings had
not borne out the expectation that that report held out. On
the contrary, the charge had increased from £830,000 to
nearly a million ; nor did that million at all express the
maximum, if they were to continue the present system. On
the contrary, as known to the house, a contract had been
recently concluded with a new steam packet company for
an American service which would involve the payment of a
sum, commencing next year, of £75,000 a year ; and various
parties had been before the Treasury in answer to an invi-
tation that was some time ago issued, though it did not in-
volve a pledge, on the subject of another line. Australia,
which was now supplied by the Red Sea, was likewise de-
sirous of having a communication across the Isthmus of
Panama. Without being able to state the precise sum that
would be required if that line of steamers were established,
it would lead to a further and great additional charge. Nor
was this all, because undoubtedly the effect of our policy
had been to create all over the world where British shipping
was established, where there were British interests or Bri-
tish settlements, a confident and sanguine expectation that
the purse of the British public would be available for the
purpose of supplying them with regular and expensive post-
age communication. (Hear, hear.) And this impression
was gaining ground from year to year, so that unless the
House of Commons was to take serious cognizance of the
subject, they had only to continue in the present course, and
they would find that that which was now merely in expec-
tation, would have hardened into a principle, and an abso-
lute dogma, which he might almost say no Parliament would
be able to resist. Underthese circumstances he wouldnot say
wills% policy should be pursued, as he would not prejudice the
general question, but it was plain that on every principle that
ought to regulate the public expenditure, and ought to impress
upon the House of Commons a jealousy of its privileges,
the time had come when this matter should be sub-
jected on the part of the House of Commons to a careful exa-
mination. He did not think it necessary to add anything to
what he thus briefly stated as the general reasons for the
appointment of this committee. If the committee were ap-
pointed it would be the endeavour of the Government, and
he hoped they would receive every assistance from others, to
select the names of those who were to form it with a view of
securing as far as possible all the objects of a just, impartial
and thorough-going inquiry. As to the scope of the com-
mittee, the words that he had drawn had been intended to
make the inquiry as wide as possible. Indeed he ventured
to propose, if there was no objection, a verbal amendment
which would have the effect of making it a little wider. It
was limited as it now stood to steam packet companies for
the conveyance of mails beyond the limits of the United
Kingdom. He thought it better to say the conveyance
of the mails by sea, which would include the conveyance of
the mails between Holyhead and Dublin. Of course it was
not necessary for him to say that Parliament might be
assured that a committee of the House of Commons, in in-
vestigating this subject, would conduct its investigation sub-
ject to the restraints which might be imposed by considera-
tions of good faith as well as public policy. At the same
time he apprehended it would be the duty of the committee
to examine carefully into every transaction which had been
concluded, and which might from its nature appear to be
illustrative of the general subject, or present considerations
of importance. He took leave to mention the intention of
Government, in answer to a question that was put the other
day with regard to a contract recently concluded for convey-
ing the mails from Galway to St. John's, Newfoundland.
He had no doubt that that matter would attract the attention
of the committee; and although the arrangements were con-
cluded so far as to bind her Majesty's Government, those
arrangements might be said in some degree to be in embryo.
He did not doubt that they would attract the early atten-
tion of the committee, but at the same time he would say
that the committee would not be appointed with any exclu-
sive, he might say with any special, relation to those ar-
rangements ,• and; although it would be their duty to con-
sider everything relating to them, yet it would likewise
have been the duty of the Government to propose the ap-
pointment of this committee, if the contract for a steam ser-
vice between Galway and St. John's had not been made.
Mr. H. HERBERT said it was not his intention to
trouble the house with any remarks upon the subject, but
ho would say a few words in relation to the extension of the
inquiry, so as to include the contract for the steam packets
between Dublin and Holyhead. He had the honour of being
chairman of the committee on postal communication with
Ireland, and while it was sitting he had communications
from a vast number of persons connected with Ireland, and
he could assure the right hon. gentleman that the interest
felt in the subject in Ireland was most intense. Great satis-
faction was manifested when their demands were conceded,
which would be followed by 'corresponding disappointment
if it was understood in that country that it was intended to
reopen therquestion.
Sir S. NORT lICOTE entirely concurred in the motion,
and no doubt the same feeling would pervade all the mem-
bersof the late Government. There was no indisposition on
his part to enter into a full discussion on all the matters that
had been alluded to, but it was far more convenient that
they should take the course proposed by the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. It was quite true that the report of the commis-
sion held out a hope that something would be done to re-
duce the charge. In the report they entered generally into
the principle on which
packet services ought to be con-
ducted, and on which the Government ought to subsidise
lines. The general view was that the packet service was one
that ought to be carried on by government, and that it should
be carried on by contract. They also determined that in
considering what lines should be started, reference should bo
had to the circumstances of the line not merely in a postal
point of view, but in a local, social, and political point of
view. But though they thought it well at the commencement
of a line to grant subsidies, it was questionable whether it
mw,aass well tosabeloenttiilo ume tahkeemimTckheety
salhsiposconasviadielraebdlewhfoerth‘evrairt
advipurposes, and they thought that it was. They also thought
they should endeavour to try the experiment whether it was
best to have contracts for long or for short periods, even
contracting for a single voyage. That was tried, and the re-
sult was that the expenditure was lessened until it was re -
pinp
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owwheer
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this system was, for reasons which
tdhuec e
Government
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ones, materially altered, and the expenditure for the packet
he dared say were good
rlrbduto
service jumped up in one year from £750,000 to £923,000, or
thereabouts. They had had considerable experience of the
to
effect of short contracts, and especially Australia, and it
was not found satisfactory. The colonies complained, and
the Government of the day thought it necessary to revert in
some measure to the old system, and establish a regular
packet service. Since that time various additions had been
made to the packets, until the expenditure amounted to the
sum that had been named. Ho was glad, therefore, that
they were going to consider the subject fully. In the report
of the committee they speculated on the possibility of a war.
That which was then a speculation became a matter of fact.
They had had a war, and in that war they SrtNV the great
advantage of having a large supply of steam packets for the
conveyance of troops and stores. Lie had no doubt that that
was one of the reasons for reverting to tho old system. He
thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer was perfectly right,
in making the terms of the reference as wide as possible, but
he thought they were not even now quite wide enough. The
committee was directed to inquire into the manner in which
contracts had been formed; he should like to have an in-
quiry, not as to the manner, but as to the principles on which
the contracts had been formed, which was the real question
at issue. The commission of 1853 endeavoured to find out the
cost after deducting the amount received for postage, and
they came to the conclusion that about £500,000 out of the
£853,000 was re-paid in postage, leaving the net expenditure
£3530)0. There was another point. The right hon. gentle-
man opposite had upon to
the principle that the colonies
Amid be called upon to bear one-half of this expenditure,
and he drew up an able minute on the subject. Circum-
stances had as yet prevented thein from taking advantage
of it, and no money, or very little, had yet been received
from the colonies on this account. He hoped they would be