The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-09 00:00:00

was the progress which had been made in the arts of war,
and in the construction of the arms of precision, that per-
sons promiscuously taken by a press gang were not fit to be
depended pn. The report was in conformity with the evi-
dence of those who of all others were best able to form a
sound judgment, including commanders of the Coastguard,
the chief clerk of the Admiralty, the Board of Trade, the
great shipping companies, and the registrars of seamen.
Hereafter he should be prepared to defend it on its own
merits.

Sir J. ELPHINSTONE exculpated the navy from the
charge of not availing itself of the improvements which had
been introduced into the merchant service. The number of
men must be apportioned to the guns ; and he did not know
that any mode had yet been discovered of reducing the
number required to manage a 32-pounder. The case of the
officers required a separate inquiry. The truth was that,
owing to the more temperatehabits of modern times, the old
officers lasted longer than they used to do. (Laughter.)
The committee presided over some years ago by Lord Sey-
mour had done a great deal of mischief. There was literally
no class of junior officers springing up. There were ships
that had only half-a-dozen midshipmen, where there ought
to be a score more. He regarded midshipmen as the most
useful class of officers on board. Give him plenty of good
midshipmen, and he would dispense with many lieutenants,
but a vessel without midshipmen was crippled. He thought
that when they had had a fair turn of work out of a lieute-
nant they ought to buy him out of the service. The con-
version of ships ought to be continued, but he had never
yet seen one that had been properly converted. He had paid
great attention to the subject of fuel. He was afraid to say
how much a year might be saved under that head ; but up
to the present time the many meritorious inventions there
were for economising coal had been almost totally neglected.
He hoped that the Clyde engine builders would be allowed
a fair chance of competing with those on the Thames. The
food of our seamen had till lately been quite insufficient;
and he should recommend the, present Government to go
even further than the late one in remedying that serious
evil. He thought the men ought to be allowed a meat sup-
per. Another grievance wasethe dcprivaticn of the warrant
officers of their widows' pensions. These men were chosen
from the elite of the seamen ; and while the amount of pro-
perty under their care was now greater than ever, their
standing in the service had been much lowered. The state
of matters at Greenwich was most wretched. (Hear,
hear.) The Government ought at once to institute a strict
inquiry into the matter, with a view to see whether it
would not be better to give the men in the shape of out-
pensionswhat tney now best, instead of keeping themt as at
present, in one of the worst monasteries ever established.
He strongly disapproved of the use of frigates as flagships
in hot climates. The flagship was a sort of storeship for
the squadron ; and unless it was very roomy the men had
to be accommodated on the lower decks, which in. hot sta-
tions were absolutely pestilential. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BENTINCK observed that in the course of the de-
bate which had just taken place they had been putting " the
cart before the horse," talking of effects instead of causes.
It would have been far better to have first discussed the
composition of the Board of Admiralty, which was the cause
of all the errors they had to deplore. It was, in fact, im-
possible with a board so constituted to 'avoid blundering
and extravagance. It was quite absurd to expect that a
board, presided over by a non-professional person, and sub-
ject to a change with every new Government could ever: be
placed on a satisfactory footing. Of all others the navy
was a department that required the constant supervision of
men who were possessed not only of professional knowledge
but of considerable experience. As to the question of man-
n;ng the navy, he must differ from his hon. friend (Mr.
Lindsay.) He contended that the late board adopted, the
only mode in their power to supply the deficiency, of men
which unhappily existed, namely, that of offering a bounty.
(Hear, hear.) The mode in which anchors had been sup-
plied to the navy was another proof of the inefficient sys-
tem which prevailed under the present constitution of the
Admiralty.
Sir F. BARING agreed that it would be more convenient
to have a separate and full discussion on the construction of
the Board of Admiralty instead of a _continuous series of de-
sultory attacks upon the system. With regard to the bounty,
it was a subject ou which he could hardly,give an opinion,
for he was not aware of the circumstances under which that
step was taken. Unless, however, there was an extreme and
pressingemergency, he did not think it was a wise or prudent
proceeding. That subject, however, could be discussed ; and
with regard to provisioning the navy, the 'present plan was
the result of the recommendation of a committee which sat
in 1850, and he thought had proved satisfactory. With re-
ference to manning the navy, he did not feel inclined to vote
money without knowing how it was to be spent, but as he
was told by the Secretary to the Admiralty that the ques-
tion would be made the subject of a bill in itself 'he was
content to let the.matter pass. He was not informed whe-
ther the system of continuous service had been as success-
ful as was anticipated, and it could only be tested in time
of war, when men were urgently required for manning the
navy. He thought that it was desirable to have &full in-
quiry into all the points connected with the navy, when
those who said that the naval estimates could be cut down
with the maintenance of efficiency should be called on to
prove their assertions..
Admiral WALCOTT wished again to point out the
necessity of the establishment of a board of men experienced
in naval architecture, whose duty it, would be to consider
the various improvements and inventions connected with
shipbuilding and the fitting of ships of war. With respect
to the bounty, he was of opinion that it ought to be consi-
dered in eonnection with the feverish state of the public
mind and the situation of public affairs on the Continent,
which was sufficient to account for and justify such a step.
He was one of those who thought that the plan of, building
ships of great length was running into extremes. Some of
the gigantic ships that were projected or building would be,
he was convinced, perfectly useless as working or manage-
able vessels. Whenever the opportunity offered he should
be prepared to go into the questions of the constitution of
the Board of Admiralty and of manning the navy.
Lord C. PAGET had a very pleasing duty to perform in
thanking those gentlemen who had complimented him on
his manner of performing his duty, and had made many
valuable suggestions. That which had just been made for
a board of scientific men to consider the subject of naval
architecture was a very valuable one, and he also thanked
the member for Sunderland for his suggestions, which he
would lay before the Board of Admiralty.
Mr. WILLIAMS moved that the chairman should re-
pat progress.
Lord PALMERSTON urged that the feeling of the
house was in favour of proceeding.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that the general feeling of the
count ry was against the additional estimates that had been
submitted. Nearly two millions extra had been asked for,
without any explanation being given. -
After a few words from Lord C. PAGET,
Mr. KINNAIRD said that with the events passing
around us, there was but one feeling in the country, that
we should place ourselves in a position of defence. (Cheers.)
The motion was negatived without a division, and the
vote fixing the number of seamen and marines was agreed
to.
On the next vote being put,
Mr. WILLIAMS again moved that the chairman should
report progress; but the motion was again negatived with-
out a division.
The following vote was then agreed te---£470 ene for
-
wages of seamen and marines.
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£2,000 for
then resumed.
Lord C. PAGLT stated, in answer to a questtoi.one,atPhae;
the navy estimates would be proceeded with on Monday.
PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
The house went into committee onthis bill.
On clause 1, • •
Mr. GRIFFITHS asked whatwas the object of the bill,
and what was to be the. salary of the clerk who was to be
appointed.
Mr. LOWE said he was not able to tell what the sale*"
was, but that would come before the house in the shape of a
vote. The object of the bill was to enable the clerk in
ordinary to act in all times, in, the absence of the olerk of the
council.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked what the retiring pension
was to be.
Mr. LOWE said he was unable to answer the question a
that moment.
Mr. BLAKCBURN said the retiring pension was about
£1,760.
On the question being put, the clause was negatived
without a division. The preamble of the bill was then
azreed to.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE MIDDLESEX (ASSISTANT-
JUDGE) BILL.
This bill passed through committee pro forma.
HIGH SHERIFFS' EXPENSES BILL.
Mr. GRIFFITHS said that if the house read the bill a
second time he would postpone the committee till the 19th
of
give ample time for consideration.
This
July,h
bi
which
PUBLlCwicahwould
read
s CONTRACTS asecondtime.
COMMITTEE.
The following members were nominated as the committee
on the Public Departments Contracts :—Mr. Corry, Sir
Charles Napier, Mr. Turner, Colonel Dunne, Lord Claud
Hamilton, r. Westhead, Colonel North, Mr. Jackson,
Mr. Roebuck, ColonelGilpin, Mr. Newdegate, Viscount
Duncan, the Judge Advocate, Lord Lovaine, and Mr.
Whitbread.
TRANSFER OF LAND (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion of Mr. WHITESIDE, leave was given to
bring in a bill to facilitate the transfer of land in Ireland
by simplifying the law of judgments.
The bill was read a first time.
CORPORATION OF LONDON REGULATION
BILL.

Sir G. LEWIS, in moving for leave to bring in a bill for
the better regulation of the Corporation of the City of Lon-
don, said that the bill was mostly founded on the report of
the committee, the principal difference relating to the num-
ber of wards. The bill only dealt with the constitution of
the corporation, and did not touch the financial part of the
subject. It did not attempt to deal with the coal duties or
metage dues. These were_questions which must be reserved
for future consideration. Ile did net wish to be understood
as expressing any opinion on that subject at present. The
coal duties would expire at an early period, and when that
time arrived or immediately before, it would be the most
convenient far considering that difficult question.
The bill was subsequently read a first time.
The house adjourned at 20 minutes to one.