The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-28 00:00:00

struggle and argument with a Minister who, so far as India hi
concerned, would lead us to believe that his Government is that
mest purely ignorant Government, and also the most bibs-
gable (because there are some who believe that capability does
not depend upon knowledge) —the most uninformed and most.,
ignorant Government that ever presumed to influence the'
destinies of that country. (Loud cheers.) The right hon.
gentleman has suggested that this debate is of no use. the
noble lord the member for the city of London, who is not a
stormy petrel but the balcyonbrooding on the waters—(a
laugh)—and who, when the Government is in any difficulty, ,
produces a card—a conciliatory card—the noble lord, toe,
does not see theme of this debate. Why.; sir, have I not Sng'
gested a measure that may have inconceivable importance in
the future—the issuing of a Royal commission ; and have we
not had au admission from the Gove nment that the pro.
position is not only politic and practicable, but that per-
haps t will be adopted ? (Hear, hear) More than that
I am not aware that this proposition may not have been
already decided en. (Cheers.) Is that a debate without a
result ? Bat then the right hon. gentleman says that if we
have .a royal commission we must have a master mind. (A
laugh.) The , ight hon gentleman sa} s, "It is all very well
to recommend a Royal commission, but can you find a master
mind ?" lam not surp ised that her Majesty's Minift Tis, 'r
the admissions they have made, should find some cliff eu.ty.
in discovering a master min'. (A laugh.) But I venture to
observe to the Government that for the duties I wish the
Royal commission to perform no master mind is neces-ary.
The possession of those high qualities that command the con-
fidence of mankind —these are what we want. (Chners)
What India wants is not a master mind, but the assertion
of truth and justice and the sovereign power of the country.
Let it be announced in an authoritative manner from the
highest authority of this country that yon Will no longer
sanction the violation of right, that you will respect your
engagements, and take care that those who are your subjects
shall enjoy their just privileges, and rest assured that you
will do more than all the devices of all the master minds to
secure the tranquility of India. (Cheers.) I come -now to
the notice that I have placed on the paper. The right hon.
gentleman says that I have moved for the production of
ene paper that does not exist, and of another paper that
cannot be produced. (A laugh.) Now, as to the first
paper that does not exist. I read in an Indian newspaper,
a year and a half ago, to which, therefore, it cannot be
objected that it was an article produced with reference,
to these events, a detailed account of a document drawn up
by General Anson and submitted by him to the Governor-
General. T: o military service is congratulated upon this step
on the Fart of General Anon. The paper is sa dto describe
the proposed constitution of the staff, and many other par-
ticulars are given. The writer awaits with the greatest anxiety,
he says in conclusio-, she decision of the Governor-General on
the subject. The man who wrote the article did not know the
form of the document, and does not say whether it is a me-
morandum co• a desin:ch. All that I can do, th refore, is to
give a description of that documen,, thinking that no Mids.
ter would make a technical objection to its production, and
that if it were in his posse sion it would be placed before the
House of Commot sas a document of imp ntance. Now I
have no moral doubt that a document of that description- is
in existence, and was presented to the Governor• General of
India. So much, however, for a document which is said not
to be in ex st nee. Let ale next adve t for a moment to that
which wll not be produced. The report of General Napier,
according to the noble lord she member for London, is ha..
material and ins•gnificant. Has the noble lord, let me ask,
rea that report? If not, how does he know that it is imams
tern' or insign ficant ? I myself have not soon it, but I know
men of the highest character who are familiar with it, :end who
assure me that it is most materia' an i significant. I think it
t erefore of the utmost importance that that document should
be 1 id before us; but instead of it and as a substitute for the re-
port of Gen. Anson, which if produced would give us - ome busi-
ness-like information, we are, it seems, to have one of those
dry constitutional platitudes which, in a moment of difficulty,
the noble lord, the member for the city of London, mechani.
cally pulls out of the dusty pigeon-holes of his mind (laugh.
ter), and shakes in the perplexed face of a baffled House of
Commons. (Renewed laughter.) The noble lord's is ono of
thoso amendments which nobody can support, and which no-
body can oppose. (Hear, hear.) What idea, I would ask,
can a commmplace so vapid give to this country, to Europe,
or to Asia, of the feelings, the thoughts, and the opinions of
the House of Commons at this moment? (Cheers.) It is,
in short, one of those constitutional platitudes which 1688
would be ashamed of (Hear, hear.) We have, I contend,
a right to possess information upon the important subject of
this debate. We ought not to bring it to a close by assert.
ing that which is after all nothing more than a mere rou'.ine
expression of opinion. So far as I myself am concerned, I
am satisfied that an opportunity has this evening been
afforded we of stating, however imperfectly, my views as to
the policy which we ought to adopt with regard to our Indian
empire. The future must decide as to whether these views
are or aro not correct. I shall no longer contend about the
miserable question whether two papers should be laid before
this house, or whether we should accept the commonplace
which the noble lord, the member for London, has submitted
to our consideration. I shall rest satisfied with having
placed upon record, before we return to our respective con-
stituents, the principles which in relation to the important
question in debate I profess, and the policy which I be-
lieve will be ultimately supported. (Cheers.)
Mr. T. BARING and Lord J. RUSSELL rose together,
and there were loud calls for the former, but he gave wa„
and
Lard J. RUSSELL proo>eded to say that ho had not, as
the right hen gent eman the member for Buckiughamsh're
had stated, a n lied ;he words " immaterial and insigoifi.
cant" to the repon of Sir C. Napier. He had ohs. rued that
ho believed the report was immat rial to the decision of the
quo tion at issue, but he had not used the word " insignifi-
cant" at all.

Mr. T. BARING said the plot whether the system of
doubly G ,vernment should be adopted or not had been tho-
roughly investigated by the committee before the bill for re-
newiig the charter was introduced into the house. If the
rtgbt hon. gentheman then held the opinions he had ex-
pressed to-night, why did he not state them to the committee
of whi h he was a member, and not reserve thrill for a time
when affairs in India were in a crisis. The right ho 1. mem-
ber's speech consisted of nothing but what they bad heard
before from the hon. member for Devonport. He had never
ard a spe.ch from the right hon. gentleman with greater
pain.

Lord PALMERSTON—The right hon. gentleman appears
to be satisfied with his speech. I myself cannot pretend to
answer for the opinions of other persons, but I must for any-
self say that I regret that a gentleman who possesses the
talent of the right hon. member for Bucks, and who holds
such a prominent position in this house and in the country,
should have selected a moment of great difficulty and anxiety
to bring forward this motion. I myself shall not go further
into the subject than to say that I am content to stand upon
the speeches of my right hon. friend the President of the
Board of Control and of the hon. gentleman the Chairman of
the Court of Directors, and to leave those two speeches as an-
tidotes to the speech of the right hon. gentleman. (Hear,
hear.) I shall not enter into the main question, or detain
the house by repeating s'atements which have already been
made ; but I must say with regard to one paper • moved for
by the right hon gentleman—namely, anassumed report from
General Anson—the right hon. gentleman states that ho has
read that report in an Indian paper--I can only say that the
Government are not in possession of such a report, and there-
fore i is not in their power to produce it. (Hear, hear.)
With regard to the report made by Sir C. Napier in 1849,
that report undoubtedly does exist. The right hon. gentle-
man says that he ha, never seen or read it. Now I have
read every word of it, and I can say that it is not a report
upon the organisation of the Indian army, but that it refers
to the means of defence against external aggression. It sets
forth precautionary measures to guard against such a contin-
gency, and displays the sagacity and knowledge of its
author ; but it is a paper the nature of which I submit to the
house precludes its being laid befo al Parliament. (Hear,
hear.) It does, I admit, contain some passa_ es relat,ve to
the Indian army, but the purport of those passages i 3 not
that which the right hon. gentleman would lead tee house to
anticipate. I have no objection to tho production of the par-
ticular extract which relates to the construction of the Indian
army, but I thi k after what has been stated, that the right
hon. gentleman will not be anxious for i s production. I.
sir, admit it is only right and proper that this house should
be called upon to take into their consideration the events
which have recently occurred in India, and I think that my
noble friend the member for L'ndon, has justly estimated
the feeling, not only of every man in this house, but that of
the p,ople of this country, and has suggested a most proper
course for us to pursue. lam sure that the House of Com.
mons will agree, now that we are called upon to discuss the•
recent unfortunate events in India, to adopt the terms of the
amendment which has been moved by my noble Mend.
(Hear, hear.) I am glad that my noble friend has moved
this amendment, and I am sure that the House of Commons
ought not to separate without voting the address which he
has moved. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON wished to advert to what he con-
sidered to be an irregularity, From what had fallen from
the noble lord he- understood that the hon. memler for
Guildford had been reading extracts from that very paper for
which his right hon. friend had moved, and which had been
refused. Such a course was most irregular, and he hoped that
the noble lord would make that paper public by laying it,on
the table of the house. •
Lord PALMERS t ON—I stated that the substance of thil
great bulk of the pap r referred to by the right hen. gentle-
man referred to a subject different to the organisation of the
Indian army. That part of the paper which relates to that
subject alone I am perfectly willing to produce.
Mr. DISRAELI—With the permission of the house I will
move only for extracts from that payer to which the noble

lord has Ceferred.
General THOMPSON said that no notice had been taken of
what was a most important part of the question, and that was
the breach of faith towards the native troops, in fact it was
the play of "Hamlet" being performed without a Hamlet.
For his own part, he could only say that as yet he had heard
but one side of the question, and he was content to follow up
the old maxim, " audi alteram partem."
The motion of the right hon. gentleman the member Mr
Bucks was then negatived without a division, and the amend.
meat propos. d by the noble lord the member for London
dli''..unicipal Corporation Bill was read a third time aid
adopted.
passed.
The
Lunatics (Scotland) Bill was read a third time aid
passed.

The New Zealand Government Act Amendment Bill Rae
read a se: and time.

The Insurance Companies Bill passed through committee pro
brma.

COURT OF SESSION (SCOTLAND) BILL..
Thie bill passed through committee. '
OXFORD UNIVERSITY• BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
AUSTRALIAN MAIL SERVICE.

On the motion of Mr. BLACKBURN, a'return was ordered of
the dates of arrival and departure of the steamers empinYed
by the Peninsular and Oriental Company while performing
the Australian mail service, showing how often and to what
extent the vessels failed to forward the mails in regular
course, and of the dates of arrival and departure of-the NOT*.
ml steamers of the Peninsular and Oriental Colupaty
.em.
ployed by them in the mail service for the last two yearns
showing the rates of speed of each voyage.
The house adjourned at two o'clock.

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