The Sun.
London, England, 1857-02-13 00:00:00

MOLDAVIA. AND WALLACHIA.

Lord C. HAMILTON moved an address to her Ma-
jesty for a copy of the treaty concluded by his Majesty
Vie.Einp,iror of Austria with the Sublime Porte, on the
14th of June, 1354, rtlltiva to the military occupation
of the above Principalities. He cJmplAined that owing
to long•established habit, unless her Majesty's name ap-
peared as one of the high contracting parties, no treaty,
however important it might be to the general state of
Europe, or ho sever it might affect British interests, was
printed url,2ss some member of that house went through
the process of moving an address for that purpose. It
was to that point he wished to call the attention of the
house, because treaties which were of much impor.ance,
and in actual force, were not to be found in the library.
The object in 'oohing the motion was to get over a pre•
cedent which existed, according to which no treaty was
printed unless moved for a private member. The last
official statement of treaties was published in 1830, and
there was no more recent list in the library for members
to refer to. There were several other treaties which
ought to be printed for the convenience of members,
and he hoped the Government would give attention to
the subject.

Lord- PALMERSTON—I suppose my noble friend
having made his statement, will hardly press his motion,
because the treaty to which he refers has been already
laid before Parliament. (A. laugh.) With regard to the
general anestion, I apprehend the case to be this—that
the Government lays before Parliament all treaties, it
being fitting that Parliament should know what engage-
ments the country has entered into ; but, with regard to
engagements ent2red into with other Powers between
themselves, we have no official knowledge of such, and 1
therefore they are not laid before Parliament. If a par.
ticular treaty is concluded between two foreign Powers,
ani it is thought to be one that by its nature bears in
some degree upon the policy of England, a member
moves for it, and application may be made for it to that
foreign Government, and it may then be had officially
and laid before Parliament. But what I apprehend my
noble friend to mean is that all European, or rather all
international, documents and engagements of general
interest should be collected and placed in the library.
Will, if it is thought fit to make arrangements for that
purpose, and assign a remuneration toa person responsible
for doing it, it might be useful to those gentlemen who
may wish to consult those documents. But that will tie
a question for the house to determine, and my noble
friend is aware that there is now a periodical collection
made and printed for sale, containing all the documents,
not merely of treaties, but every European document of
general interest, and made up in volumes for each year ;
and a very large number of volumes are now published.
This is a work of great labour and research. Those
documents are collected from all sources —foreign news-
papers, and the acts of foreign Governments—and it
takes a considerable time to collect them with accuracy.
With regard to the other question, if the house thinks it
worth while to charge any responsible person with the
duty of coil, c kg, for the use of members, all treaties
and documents of international operations, I do not ap-
prehend that the Government would be at all opposed
to such a step. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI—I think the house must feel obliged
to my noble friend (Lord C. Hamilton) for bringing the
matter before them. There is a want of many docu-
ments of international interest in our library, but I am
mire my noble friend meant no censure upon the gentle-
man who now Manages the library, for I believe no
one could di=charge that duty with more ability and ac-
curacy. (lear, hear.) What my noble friend says is,
that the collection at the Foreign•office is made with
ample knowledge and proper research, and in every way
satisfactory, except one, and if our representations were
made to the Foreign office that there should be a little
more energy employed in the production of the valuable
collection of documents there, they should all have the
information which it was eo desirable to possess. (Hear.)
The motion was then withdrawn.
BANK ACTS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to
move the appiintllent of the Committee on the Bank
Act. He said—l will trouble the house with a few
remarks relating to the nature of the committee I pro-
pose to appoint--namely, a Committee of Secrecy. The
actual difference lottween an ordinary committee and a
committee of secrecy is not, in fact, very wide. It is
competent far a Et I,3ct committee—and it often exercises
the power—to exclude the public during the reception
of evidence. All select committees exclude the public
during their deliberations, which constitute the only
part of their proceedings f which an authentic report
by a, shorthand writer is not preserved. To a committee
of the sort I now propose it is not probable that the
public would be admitted during the ezimination of
witnesses ; but a complete report of the evidence would
be taken, and the committee would have the power of
laying it on the table of the house. The only difference
between a select committee, not admitting the public
daring the examination of witnesses, and a conmittee of
secresy is this—that it is the privilege of members not
belonging to the c immittee to be present at an ordinary
se ect committee, if they so think fit, while the public
are excluded. But, if the committee be a committee of
secrecy then members unconnected with the committee
have not that privilege. That is the whole extent of the
difference. In looking through the series of committees
appointed to inquire into the Bank charter and other
questions of a titular nature, I find it to have been the
invariable practice to constitute them committees of
secresy. In 1319 the committee on the Ex; itliency of
the Bank resuming cash payments was a secret com-
mittee. In 1832 a secret committee was appointed
to inquire into the expediency of Renewing the Bank
charter. In 1836 the committee of joint-stock
banks was als) secret, and the committee on com-
mercial distress in 1848 was likewise a committee
s.ecresy. With respect to the arrangements between this
Government and the Bank of England there is nothing
which, as ftr as I am aware, might not be. published to
the whole wadi, and as far as Government is cincerned
there is no rsaeon to wish that any departure shoal take
place from the usual mode of examination in committee.
But the house must be aware that, in a committee of
this sort, questions may arise affecting the credit of par-
.

commercial establishments, will respect to which
it might not be desirable that any publicity should oc-
cur ; and tha', I apprehend, is the principal reason why
this course Las been invariably pur,ued with respect to
committees of this kind. Therefore I have thought it
desirable to adhere to what seems to have been the in-
variable practice, and I propose that this should be a
committee of secresy. With respect to the members of
the committee, it has been my study to propose as fair a
list of names as po4siblo, and one which would insure a
complete and searching investigation of the matter re-
ferred to the committee. I think the house will admit
that there are scarcely any discussions so disagreeable
to the feelings as those which arise with respect to the
preference of one member to another for appointment on
a committee, and if the house should be of opinion that,
on the whole, the list I propose is a fair one, I trust
that, without going into the merits of other members, it
will be disposed to adopt the list I submit. Two gentle-
raen—the hon. members for Wallingford and Perthshire
(air. Malins and Mr. Stirling)--have intimated their
inability to serve on the committee, and I should there-
fore give notice of a motion to substitute two other
names instead of theirs. The right hon. gentleman con-
cluded by making the following motion :
"That the committee be a committee of secresy, and
do consist of 22 members—viz., the Chancellor of the
Exibequer, Mr. Disraeli, Sir J. Graham, Mr. Spooner,
Mr. Gladstone, Mr. G. A. Hamilton, Mr. Cardwell, Mr.
Wilson, Mr. Hildyard, Mr. Glyn, Mr. Beckett, Mr.
Hankey, Mr. Pollird-Urquhart, Mr. J. L. Ricardo, Sir
C. Wood, Mr. Ca} ley, Sir F. Baring, Mr. M. T. Smith,
Mr. Wilkinson, and Mr. Fergus."
Mr. PEA.COCKE rose to protest against the fairness of
the proposed committee. Opinions upon this subject
were entertained by two schools, if be might call them
so, which were diametrically opposed to each other.
There was the school which wished to preserve the Bank
Act in its present integrity, and which bad on its side
the high authority of Lord Overstone. There was the
school which wished to introduce considerable modifica-
tions in the act, and which had on its side the still higher
authority of Mr. Fullerton, Mr. Tooke, and Mr. Wilson.
The last-mentioned gentleman, indeed, bad almost de-
luged the country with the variety of pamphlets, articles,
and publications which he had issued on this subject
during the last 14 sears. On looking at the names that
composed the committee, be (Mr. Peacocke) found one
or two members of what he might call the Birmingham
school, and he found one or two of what he might call
the Overstone school. He found the names of some
members who, he believed, had not expressed any opinion
on this subject, if, indeed, they entertained any. But he
did not find a single member of what he might call
the school of economists, which had the very high
authority of Messrs. Tooke, Fullerton, and Wil-
son. He listened to a great portion of the not very
lively or instructive debate on this subject the other
evening, and of the portion of which he had not the
felicity of hearing, he read a report the next day.
found tbat during the whole of the debate therewas He
but
one hon. gentleman who broached
hon,
doctrines at all ap-
proaching to that school. The ongentleman, who
was the hon. member for Wick Bu. rgh (Mr. Laing),
spoke most ably, but his name
oiwas not on the commit-
tee. Perhaps, however he
r. Peacocks) might be
told, as he had been reminded by his right hon. friend
1 the member for Buckinghamshire, that the name of the
hon. member for Westbury
upon the committee ; but h (Mr James
tWheillisboenr)tyW9Osf
asking whether he was a Wilsonite—(laughter)—for he
a
was probably no more Wileonite than Wilkes was a
Wilkite. He (Mr. Peacocke) was rather inclined to be-
lieve that the hon. member for Westbury was inclined,
like Wilkes, to repudiate his disciples, and he there-
fore begged to ask whether it was really his intention
to take his place upon the committee, and,if be
I should do so, whether he would do so as theauthor

of " Ca, iial and Currency," er as the Secretary fur tie
Treasury ; becauoo with the single exception of tt e
honourable gentleman himelf, there was no represeeta
tive of the school cf which ho was once the apos''e,
but of which he (Mr. Peacocke) believed he
was no I,m era ,lisciole (Laughter.) If there was one
question rric,ro th another to which the attention of
the !aommittee ought, to be directed it was that of coun
try issues. On lo'.-king over the debate of the other
evening he found that that subject was alluded to by
only one geritismato viz., his him. friend the member furlnvernese-shire. But that hon, gentleman's name was
not on the c intnittee. There was another most impor-
tant point, He believed that it was a very general opi-
nion that it was the intention of the Bank Act that the
bullion in the is.tre department should be exclusively
for the purpose of securing the convertibility of the note
and that, the eel er of the bank note should have a spe-
cial lien upon it. Now, if the bank should break, was
the holder of such a cote to be paid pari passti, with
every other credilor ? That the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer must admit was a very important question for the
consideration of the committee, but not one of those hon.
gentlemen whose names had been proposed bad al!uded to
it. And so he (Mr. Peacocks) was told that this was a fair
and impartial committee for the purposes of inquiry.
He declined to propose any alteration of it. He
thought that the play was amusing as it etood, and he
did not wish to interfere with the performance or the
distribution of the parts in this most solemn comedy.
(Laughter.)
Mr. DISRAELI begged to repeat the appeal which
he made the other evening to the Government, to intro-
duce a bill at once without the intervention of a oom-
mittee, as he thought that all the information that might
be needed could be furnished during the discussion of
the bill in its several stages in the house. The Govern-
ment bad rnatured their opinion on the subject, and he
thought it was most unadvisable to appoint a committee
to investigate a subject with respect to which the Go-
vernment was prepared to undertake, on its own respor-
sibility, the introduction of a bill, He (Mr. Disraeli)
was nut disposed to divide the house upon the appoint-
ment of a committee unless he should receive more en-
couragement than he then anticipated. But there was
another point which was scarcely less important which
he would urge upon the Government, and that was the
expediency of not only changing the names, but reducing
the size of the committee, which was unwieldy. All the
opinions that ought to be represented might be repre-
sented by a committee exactly half the sizs. Why not
have a committee of 11, as they chose 11's at cricket
(Laughter.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
appeared to be the general wish of the house that a se-
lect committee should be appointed on this subject, and
although he thought there was no necessity for one yet
he would yield to that desire. Even if he had deter-
mined to introduce a bill in the first instance he believed
that the majority of the house would have referred it to
a select committee. There was a general faspectation,
both within the house and out of doors, that the sub-
ject should undergo investigation before a com-
mittee. On referring to former committees upon
this subject he found that they were generally
composed of 26 or 28. The last committee
was composed of 26. In proposing, therefore, a com-
mittee of 12, he did not choose an unreasonable num-
ber. The many applications which had been made to
him by hon. members dedrous of being appointed on the
committee induced him to believe that it was the general
wish that the committee should be composed of at least
22 members.

Mr. lIADFIELD complained of the absence from tie
list of every hon. gentlemen representing the manufac-
turing districts in the north of England.
_ _

Mr. TITE expressed his approval of an inquiry by a
se!ect committee as a preliminary step to the introduc-
tion of a bill.

All the names preceding that of Mr. PLllard-Urciutiart
having been put trJui the chair and agreed t
Mr. GROGAN proposed the substitution of Mr.
Vance's name for that of Mr. Urquhart, on the ground
that the latter represented an agricultural, whih the
former represented a mercantile, constituency.
After a few words from Mr. NEWDEGATE,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought
that it was not the first time that the hon. gentleman
had made a motion of a similar nature with respect to
his colleague ; and he also thought that his colleague
bad made a similar motion with regard to himself.
(Laughter.) He himself would adhere to the names
which he bad set aown, and, as among those names
were the name of the hon. member for the University of
Dublin, an accomplished financier, and of .the hen.
member fur Westmeath, who had on previous occa-
sions eashibited considerable acquaintance with the sub
ject, he did not think that Irish commercial interests
were not fairly represented.

Mr. VANCE disclaimed any intention of placing
himself in antagonism with the hon. member f.)l.
Westmeath, but at the same time he begged, in reply to
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to state that he had
never proposed his colleague to serve on any committee,
and he hoped that his hon. colleague would now with-
draw his motion.

The motion wa; then withdrawn, and the remaining
names cc ere agreed to.
L.° Commons Enclosure Bill and the Royal Marine
Furces Bill were read a second time.

The house adjourned at I'2 o'clock.

MARKS NEWS.—(This r a y.)