The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-15 00:00:00

THE SAVINGS BANKS BILL.

DEPUTATION TO THE CHANCELLOR OF THE
EXCHEQUER.

_ .
Yesterday afternoon, a deputation, consisting of Mr.
Collins, M.P. ; Mr. Whateley, Q.C. ; Mr. C. E. Lewis,
Mr. Isaacson, the Rev. Mr. Owen (of St. Asaph), and
other gentlemen, waited upon the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, at his official residence, for the purpose of
i:tating certain objections to the bill recently introduced
into the House of Commons by the right bon. gentle-
man. The deputation was introduced by Mr. Paget,
M.P., and Mr. Pritchard, M P. ; the Chancellor of the
Exchequer being attended by •-;ir A. Spearman, Comp-
troller ..f the National Debt-office.

The Rev. Mr. OWEN, in opening the subject, referred
to some resolutions in condemnation of the bid, adopted
at a meeting recently held in the parish of St. Clement
Danes, over which he had himself presided, and copies
of which had been forwarded to the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, and stated that the objections generally
entertained by managers and trustees against the bill
were ctrected principally to the provisions contained in
its 2nd, 3d, and 12th clauses. He also referred to the
resolutions of a kindred character adopted by the
managers and trustees of the St. A qsph's Savings
Bank, of which he was treasurer and trustee.
The bill as it stood, he maintained, vested in the
hands of the Government powers of an extensive, and
at the same time undefined nature, which would,
without doubt, deprive trustees and managers of all
control, and place all real authority in the hands of the
National Debt.office. It was, he admitted, desirable
that there should be a government guarantee to deposi-
tors ; and the result, if the bill as it stood were to pass,
would be to drive all managers and trustees into resigna-
tion.

Mr. LEWIS (as a manager and trustee of St. Clement
Daces Savings Bank) spoke at considerable length to
the same effect, repudiating in his opposition to the bill
anything like a feeling of personal jealousy. At the
same time, he objected that there was no precedent for
the government taking to itself powers so extensive and
so undefined—powers which would in reality deprive
trustees and managers of all power whatever in the
management of the affairs of savings banks ; and if, in
order to give a government guarantee to depositors, it
was necessary to do away with trustees and managers,
ho should prefer to see that mode of action openly
adopted. Is was not, however, necessary that the pow-
ers to be taken by the government should be undefined,
and as it was only fair that there should be a series of
regulations in return for the government guarantee,
those rules and regulations ought to be expressed in the
bill, The effect of the bill would be that certain banks,
being unable to comply with the government provisions,
would become marked banks with the public, there
would be a run upon them, and so they would be de-
troyed. Nothing would be easier than to insert in the
bill the restrictions to be introduced, with a discretionary
power to the National Debt-office to modify them if
found impracticable, or inconvenient to work. In Mr.
Gladstone's bill of 1853 there was a most obnoxious pro-
vision to take away the surplus fund, and such a power
might be taken by government under the present bill.
Sir A. SPEARMAN said there was never any intention
to do anything of the kind under that bill.
Mr. LEWIS then had been misled, and was sure the
' country would be glad to know that it was so. All that
the deputation aad the banks asked was, that theyshould
have the privilege of going before a select committee of
the mouse of Commons ; and that tbe restrictions intended
by clauses 2,3, and 12, should be expressed in the bill.
These were the two objects sought by the deputation,
which represented most of the savings banks of the
country.
Sir A. SPEARMAN inquired if the Bloomsbury Bank
bad joined in the movement ?
Mr. Lzwls—No.
Sir A. SPEARMAN—Has the London Provident I
Mr. Liwts—l am not aware.
Sir A. SPEARMAN—I am aware that they have not,
and they'are two of the largest banks in the country.
Mr. LEWIS said the deputation represented banks.
which held the greater portion of the deposits of the
country.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the views of
the Government in bringing forward the hill appeared
to be entirely misunderstood. The deputation seemed to
be under an impression that the Government were seek-
ing powers by the measure, and there was some jealousy,
he thought, as to the future position of managers and
trustees. But nothing ceuld be further from the fact
than that the Government were desirous of increasing
their powers, and they would much rather leave the
matter as it was ; but the present state of things was
bad both for the Government and the people, since there
was a belief on the part of the latter in the moral obli-
gation of the former to make good any loss which might
arise from the defalcations of officers of savings banks,
while the Government did not think themselves justified
in applying the public money to cueh a purpose. Thus
. ttt het oso.es of the Cntre-itrwq. B enk, jDublin. anri the

Killarney Berk, the Government bad been asked for
grants of money t make good such defalcationi ; and
during the present session lie hail himself been asked if
he would grant assistance to individuals. Under such
circumstances, he had thought it his duty to propose
a measure for giving a guarantee to depositors ; but
this could not be done without a guarantee that the
trust should not be abused, and that there should be
such reasonable restrictions and precautions as could be
taken to secure the saf,ty of the deposits. That was his
view ; but there was no wish on the part of the Govern-
ment to interfere with trustees and managers in the,
ordinary course of their business transactions, and to
say, as had been said, that it was the intention
of Government to elbow them out, and place them in a
discredit Jfle posii.ion, was a complete perversion of the
in!en!ions which Givernment entertained. In under-
taking the responsibility for so many millions of money,
it was absolutely necessary 1 o introduce restrictions and
regulations, but they would be more in the nature of
statutory provisions than of any interference with de-
tails. With regard to the power given by the bill to the
Government to remove or suspend paid officers, the
same power had been given in the New Poor Law, and
bad not, he thought, been found to interfere with the in-
dependence of the Boards of Guardians. With regard
to the power taken by the Government to fix salaries, it
was open to consideration, and he did not know that it
was necessary to be retained.

Mr. LEWIS said that that power, together with the
further power proposed to be taken of fixing the arno3nt
of expenses, would rea ly leave the managers and true.
tees nothing to do.

Mr. OWEN—Who Ix ill appoint the paid officers ?
Th-t CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The trustees
and manavers, of cools).

Mr. OwEN—But it the Government object to the
appointment ? _ _

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—Then the true.
tees will appoint another.
Mr. OwEN—Anti if they ohj e`ed again ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER-Oh you ought
not to suppose anything so unreasonab e. In a country
:Die this, where all public men are so much under the
public eye, anything like systematic abuse of power is
altogether unlikely.
After some further conversation, in the course of
which the Chancellor of the Exchequer repeated his
disavowal of ail intention of interfering with the indepen-
dence of trustees and managers, and intimated his
opinion that it would be impossible to embody the neces-
sary roles and regulations in the bill, the deputation
retired.