The Sun.
London, England, 1861-05-08 00:00:00

VIE SUN, :LONDON, WEDNESDAY :EVENING, MAY 8, 1861.

tion in Canadaremained with the Parliament of this coun-
try, and therefore it was necessary that Lord Durham should
supply them with the means of forming a judgment, The
act of union was the result of that operation. But here, on
the other hand, the result of the mission, whatever it might
have been, was to be effected in the islands themselves. It
consisted of certain propositions made to the local authori-
ties, and as these were declined on the spot, and there was no
' occasion for a reference to the Parliament of England or for
raising an issue in this country, the analogy of Lord Dur-
ham's case did not hold good in the present one. The hon.
member spoke thatnight so strongly as the enthusiastic and
almost ungovernable advocate of nationalities and freedom
—(laughter)—that he hardly knew whether he was the same
member he had latelyheard on the subjectof Italian freedom
and nationality. There was no thermometrical point from
zero to boiling heat that could give the amount of difference
between the hon. member' boiling and over-boiling to -night
as the advocate of nationality, and that representative of
liberal sentiments who occasionally addressed the house on
Italian affairs, and supported the Papal and other, as they
considered them, bad governments of Italy. (Hear.) The
hon. gentleman might say that this was an " argumentum
ad hominem," and that any inconsistency on his part was
no justification for inconsistency on the part of a Govern-
ment. He admitted that that would be true if there were
inconsistency on the part of the Government, and to that
point he should now address himself. The hon. gentleman
said that great popular excitement pervaded the islands,
and that it threatened the public tranquillity. He had no
information as to the present feeling in the islands, but as
far as he had seen when in these islands, it was not possible
to convey a more gross and entire misrepresentation.
(Hear.) He did not hesitate to say that the sentiment of
these populations was one of general contentment. (Hear,
hear.) At the same time he would frankly state what he
believed to be the fact with regard to their desire for the
realisation of their nationality. Prince Metternich had said
of Italy that it was a geographical expression, meaning that
it could not be a political one. On the contrary, the lonian
Islands were mere fragments scattered along the coasts of
Greece, and were brought together into political union by
circumstances entirely exceptional. Under these circum-
stances they did entertain a strong sentiment of nationality,
and desired the day when the Geeek race might be again
united. (Hear, hear.) It grieved him to the last degree
when he saw that sentiment on the part of those long un-
happy and often oppressed people treated with ridicule and
scorn by persons in this country. (Hear, hear.) For centu-
ries, in the most unhappy circumstances, these people were
subject, in one form or other, to foreign domination, and
he did not think that their retaining the memory of the
glorious origin from which they were sprung—that free
sentiment which was the great sign of national, political, and
even moral life, and the best hope and pledge of their future
destiny—should be made the butt for wanton, cruel, and he
must say dastardly ridicule. (Cheers.) That was not the
tone, at all events, in which he should speak of that senti-
ment which he admitted existed amongst all ranks and
classes, but in a different form. It was entertained by the
people not as a sentiment which made them miserable, but
as one of hope which they should be glad to see realised
when the proper occasion offered. It was traded upon ac-
cordingly by the worst and most corrupt part of the popu
lation. But these were not the masses of the people, who, he
must say, appeared to him to be an amiable and good people,
singularly refined and courteous, not difficultto govern, any
thing but estranged in sentiment from the English Throne
and nation, but, on the contrary, entertaining warm feelings
of respect, regard, and even gratitude towards this country.
(Hear.) It was a mistake to suppose that they would pre-
fer union with Russia or:France. He believed they would
prefer to be connected with England rather than with
Russia, notwithstanding their unity of religion, or any fo-
reign country Whatsoever. But demagogues—and he must
say that amongst the worst of those demagogues were num-
bers of those who professed a particular feeling of friend-
ship to England—took advantage of this sentiment, and
used it as a means of producing excitement for their own
selfish purposes. Amongst the upper classes were a number
of gentlemen of great respectability and high character.
While on the one hand he must admit that he never met
any one of this class who did not say he hoped they might
be reunited to the stock from which they sprang—(hear,
hear)—he must on the other hand say, he had never met one
who said that the period had not yet come for realising that
object. Prudence taught them that there were practical
objections of an insurmountable kind to the union with
Greece, and those gentlemen deprecated in the highest de-
gree all those precipitate measures which, under the influ-
ence of popular zeal and excitement, were fomented for sel-
fish purposes by selfish individuals. (Hear, hear.) Such
he believed to be a true representation of the sentiment of
Hellenic nationality. With regard to the character of these
people, it was distinguished, especially in the upper classes,
by one fault—a fault that was frequently found in countries
long oppressed, and in a subordinate position—the fault of
moral cowardice. The consequence was that it was difficult
to obtain a free and heinest expression of opinion in these
islands, and of course it became more difficult to obtain such
an expression in proportion as the public feeling was ex-
cited. It was quite true, as the hon. member said, that the
Archbishop and ao. ay of Corfu expressed a desire to bim
when he landed there in Tanury, 1.2169, to be unitcyd to
Greece, but the despatch which led to the excitement was
published in the month of November, and the pressure of
the public feeling was so used by the politicians that they
were left no choice in the matter. (Hear.) He did not
know how many members of that house belonged to that
important body, the Anti -State Church Association, but it
these gentlemen transported themselves to those islands
they would find the most perfect religous equality prevail-
ing there. He believed that there was not so pure an ex-
. ample of a voluntary church to be found on the earth as

existed in these islands. Ireland furnished by no means so
pure an example of a church supported by voluntary con-
tributions. There were no endowments whatever. The
priests were selected for the parishes without the interven-
tion of the bishop, by the vet s of certain lay bodies at-
tached to each church, who were frequently very nume-
rous. In the few instances where there were endowments
there was also patronage, but these were exceptional cases.
These priests, with few exceptions, were men of small
attainments in point of education, but they were intensely
identified with the people in feeling ; and when the popular
sentiment led in the direction of nationality, it was for them
to follow—for folluw they must, sooner or later. He had
made no such speech as that to which the hon. member re-
ferred, and what he quoted was probably some unauthorised
gatherings of private conversations. But as regarded what
was stated about Thessaly, Albania, and Candia, he adopted
the sentiments advanced, as far as he could gather them
from what the hon. member quoted. The hon. member
made an attack on his noble friend, and called upon him to
apply to the lonian Islands the sentiments and policy he
adopted towards Italy. It was not for him to enter upon a
defence of his noble friend, especially, as had been stated by
the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli), as the
policy of his noble friend had never been challenged in that
house, (Hear.) But he would venture to offer a defence
—where none was needed—and show why England, with.
out any selfish feeling on her part, ought not to follow the
suggestions of the hon. member. He would admit that they
must be prepared to apply in their own case the same prin-
ciples which they urged for the adoption of others. But the
application must be varied—not indeed by the consideration
of selfish and separate interests, but by considerations of pru-
dence and policy in connexion with European and general
interests. The question was, What was their duty with
regard to the lonian Islands ? They found articles in news-
papers stating that they were of no advantage to England.
Others might hold a different opinion, and the hon. gentle-
man asked, "If they are of no advantage, why not give them
up ?" Some persons were of opinion that the possession of
Corfu was of great advantage as a military position, and that
great public influence attached to the possession of the pro-
tectorate of these islands. For his own part, he was rather
disposed to agree with those who thought that England had
no selfish, separate, or peculiar interest whatever in the re-
tention of these islands. It was entirely in his view a ques-
tion connected with her character and her duty, with the
exact and regular fulfilment of the obligations which she
contracted towards Europe, when, for the benefit of Europe,
she undertook that protectorate, because it was deemed to
be safest in her hands. Why not, said the hon. member,
appeal to the powers of Europe to release UF from the obli-
gations we contracted ? But as a preliminary to that, it is
necessary to be convinced in their own minds that it was
for their benefit that they should be so released, and that
was the view of the question which the hon. member had
entirely overlooked. He seemed to think that the whole
question was disposed of when it was admitted that England
had no separate or selfish interest in the matter. The hon.
member quoted as a sentiment of his, that as long is Thes-
saly, Albania, and Candia were in political relation with the
Turkish empire, it was a matter of serious risk to separate
the lonian Islands from the British protectorate. It appeared
to him that both on that ground, and for another still more
substantial, there would be very serious risk in such separa-
tion. The hon. member said, "Unite them with free Greece."
In the first place, he had no evidence that free Greece
wished for the union. He believed the opinion in Greece
was very much divided on the subject, and that the laws,
usages, and. condition of the inhabitants of the islands were
so different that public opinion was anything but unani-
mous as to the desirability of the union. At all events, no
prima facie case for the union had been made out. Then
had the hon. member considered the state and condition of
free Greece itself ? (Laughter.) He was not going to in-
dulge in any general invective against Greece, knowing the
great difficulties which Greece had to contend with in the
establishment of her freedom, and that it was associated
with one of the most illustrious names in the history of Eng-
land—the name of Mr. Canning—which was as much re-
vered in free Greece for the services he rendered to the race
as it was in England itself, the country of his birth. But
at the same time, without entering into any criticism of
the conduct of the Government or sovereign of Greece, from
all the information at his command, h did not believe
that the political condition of free Greece was so consoli-
dated, that its laws and institutions were so matured, that
it was a state to hold itself up ae a nucleus and rallying
point for the scattered members of the race. His belief was,
that under the present Government it was far better for
free Greece to look after her own concerns than to look
after the concerns of other people. (Hear.) He believed
it would be a crime against the safety and tranquillity of
Europe as connected with the great eastern question if Eng-
land were to do what the hen, member recant tided, and

to propose to the powers of Europe to surrender the lonian
Islands for the purpose of uniting them to free Greece. Did
the hon. member consider the bearing which that union had
on the condition of the European provinces of Turkey.
(Hear.) If we were to resign our protectorate, and to givefull
effect to the principle of nationality as laid down by the hon.
member, were we then to say to the people of Thessaly, Al-
bania, and Candia, you shall remain, not under a Christian
protectorate, but under a Mahommedan sovereignty, and
your desire for nationality shall remain unfulfilled ? (Hear.)
There was therefore a political bearing of this question
which the hon. gentleman in his new-born zeal for nation-
alities had entirely overlooked. But his zeal for nationali-
ties had made such rapid growth—he was so promising al
pupil in that tichool—that when next the Italian question
came before thehouse he entertained the most sanguine ex-
pectation of his aid. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Looking
to the state and position of these islands—seeing that Corfu
was only separated by a narrow channel, which in some
points was not wider than two miles, from the Turkish ter-
ritory, they must be convinced of the great risk of acceding
to the policy of the hon. gentleman ; and indeed it would
be hardly compatible with good faith to Turkey to allow
Corfu, under present circumstances, to become a part of
Greece. People might differ as to the practicability or de-
sirability of maintaining the Turkish empire, but what-
ever was done with regard to that great question should
be done on principle, with forethought and a conscious-
ness of what we were about, not by piecemeal measures,
which would bring into operation a source of dis-
turbance which would tend to perplex the Eastern ques-
tion, and the whole of Europe as connected with that
gigantic question. (Hear.) If, therefore, in his humble
conception of what was right he declined to accede to the
annexation of the islands to free Greece, it was not that he
denied the application of the principle of nationalities, but
because in respect to this protectorate they stood as the
guardians of a public and general policy, and must do
what was best for the general interests. (Hear, hear.) He
wished to say a‘ few words as to the actual condition and
institutions of the lonian Islands, because the belief was
that they enjoyed a free Government because they were
under the protectorate of England ; and any Englishman
who understood the nature of the institutions of those
islands would even dignify them with the name of a free
Government in the same sense as we understood it. It
was the very opposite of a free Government. It was a
strange and incongruous mixture Of materials which re-
quired reconstruction. (Hear, hear.) In Dominica there
was perfect liberty of the press, and that was a
great item of freedom when it came in its own place and
time ; but the possession of entire liberty of the press when
,it did not stand side by side with Parliamentary institu-
tions was a very doubtful benefit. (Hear, hear.) Now, with
regard to the franchise, the population of the islands was
nearly 250,000, and the number of enfranchised persons was
not more than between 6,000 and 8,000, and therefore it
could not be said, if they went wrong, they had been ruined
or corrupted by universal suffrage. (Hear.) Well, therewas,
on the other hand, s power which had existed in that country
for several years, and though that power might not have been
exercised of late it was a thoroughly despotic power, and was
vested in the Lord High Commissioner, who had authority
to lay hands on any man, separate him from his family, and
banish him to any portion of the lonian territory. It might
not, it was true, be considered a very great hardship to
transport a man from one side of the country to the other ;
but the contrary was the fact. These seven islands had
other islands appended to them, in whichperhaps only a few
fishermen would be found to reside. Now, when an editor
of a newspaper—((i hear, hear," from Mr. Maguire, and a
laugh)—was employed in preparing an effective leading
article—(a laugh)—he might under the lonian law be seized
and sent to one of those solitary places, and kept there so
long as it pleased the parties who had him taken up. That
was one of the things which he (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) was commissioned entirely to abolish. Then, as to
the Assembly, it was not at liberty to take the initiative—
it had no legislative means of influencing the Government,
nor had it any power over the public purse. If the As.
sembly were suspended the Lord High Commissioner had
power to raise the revenue of the country and expend it as
he pleased. So that a free Government as it was understood
in this country did not exist—it contained the theoretic
elements of one, and that was all. (Hear, hear.) Now, as to
the question of the ballot, which was supported by a large
party in this country, a friend of his who had
always supported it told him that if it were
carried 99 out of every 100 electors would insist that the
way in which they voted should be made known. (A
laugh.) In the lonian Islands all men were for the bal-
lot, but nothing could be more injurious than the operation
of that system among them, because their greatest misfor-
tune and curse was their want of political and moral cou-
rage. (Hear, hear.) It was not difficult to ascertain the
existence of that evil. The Assembly, consisting of 42 gen-
tlemen, met in a hall the galleries of which contained some-
thing like 1,000 persons, who more or less interfered with
freedom of discussion, and influenced their decisions.
(Hear.) But that was not the worst of the evils in their
system of government. One fatal characteristic of their insti-
tutions was that ervezy member of the Assembly was n histsts-
salaried officer ; and of all tba ntinncraia nrnnnaar b V.aintro-
duced into our constitution he prayed that such a system
as that v. stela bo the last. (Hear, hear.) In general, where
payment was proposed or given to Members of Parliament,
as in America, it was to reimburse them for the expenses
incurred ; but in the lonian Islands it did not stop there,
but ran through the whole municipalities of the islands,
and the consequence was they had got a system the most
corrupt that it was possible to conceive—namely, the fre-
quent elections of paid officers—(hear, hear)—a system
enough to eat out the hearts of all men. (Hear, hear.)
In his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) opinion,
payment of any kind to members of parliament
was bad ; but there it was carried too far, and
produced the most lamentable consequences. (Hear,
hear.) It exceeded two or three times over the amount
paid to the members of the Greek Assembly who met at
Athens. It was after all but a just retribution on the peo-
ple of this country, because, when the protectorate was
first assumed the system of the government was founded
on a policy of silence ; the members of the Assembly were
nominated and well paid, and when the time came to elect
them, the same system had to be continued ; hence the
hopeless corruption of the civil government under which
the people suffered. In no case was that exempli-
fied more than in the fact that though the whole cost of the
military defences of those islands was borne by England,
yet the inhabitants were heavily taxed to provide for
officials who had nothing whatever to do, and
laugh.)superinten-
(sAhrankrom giving the lonian
He believed that in
Islands a constitution, and that her policy. was intended to
dtheentfifirswthionsdt
go no further than to give them a general security for life
iadneeeveEnnlgelsans. d
and property. It appeared to him, however, as a commis -
aioner, that though they were bound by European con-
siderations to prevent any expectations on their part that
this country would surrender its protectorate, they were
bound to give them a free constitution. Ile honestly
confessed that he desired the well-being of these islands—
(hear, hear)—and in his opinion free institutions would
work well, because they would bring out all the best
elements of the people, which were now absolutely
smothered beneath the profligacy and corruption that
existed. No present system had created such an extraordi-
nary mass of private interests—so many big jobs and little
jobs, that they had more to contend with in endeavouring
to effect improvements than if they left it as it was. The
very men who now adhered most closely to the system of
corruption, and proclaimed themselves the fast friends of
England, would be the first to turn demagogues and cry out
for annexation with Greece the moment they endeavoured
to introduce political improvements and interfered with the
pastures on which they fattened. (Hear.) The lonian
Government were offered to enjoy full power over the public
purse, and would ultimately command an influence over the
Executive Government, and they would in every respect
have been secured in person and property. Those were the
terms offered, but unhappily refused. Having trespassed so
long on the patience of the house, he did not intend to say
anything personal to himself, although be might say that,
having been entrusted with a mission, it might have been a
matter of regret to him that his mission had failed. He
believed that their refusal of the advantages offered them
placed England in a right position before the nations of
Europe, because it showed that whatever evils prevailed in
those islands, it was not the fault of England, but in pite
of her honest endeavours to cure them. (Loud cheers.)

Mr. CONINGIIAM supported the motion.
Mr. LAYARD denied that the lonians were at present
worthy of what was termed "nationality," and ridiculed
the idea of their being a great people pining for a free con-
,titution, and deserving of it. Ho believed that if a strong
declaration were made by England that she had no idea of
transferring the lonians to Greece, the inhabitants would
cease agitation, and apply themselves to developing the re-
sources of their country.
Mr. WHITESIDE asked what was to be done with the
lonian Islands. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had re-
presented their present system of government as a tissue of
absurdity and corruption, and there had left it.

Mr. M. MILNES was gratified to find that a subject of
so much interest and importance had been brought under
the notice of the house. could not understand why the
report of Mr. Gladstone should have been kept secret so
long, but he hoped that when it was published it would
have a salutary effect upon the future of the lonians.

Mr. MONSELL expressed his hope that the inhabitants
of the lonian Islands would feel, after the discussion of that
evening, that the English Parliament really sympathised
with them, and was anxious to see them enter upon a course
of self-improvement.

Mr. C. FORTE SCUE having described the nature of the
papers which the Goveinnitut Were prepared to furnish,
Mr. MAGUIRE said he would accept the proposal of the
Government to give as many papers on the subject as they
could obtain. He assured the house that nothing was fur-
ther from his intention than to say anything disrespectful.
All he intended to say of Sir H. Storks was that he was a
brave and gallant soldier, but that he had found himself in
a very critical position, and was really bewildered as to what
he was doing. He hoped and believed that the present dis-
cussion would do no injury in the lonian Islands, and he
for One felt very well satisfied with the turn the debate had
assumed.

Lord PALMERSTON—T think the hon. gentleman has
shown a very fair and candid spirit in the course he
tam adopted, and on the part of the eioYenlmont 0Z444

him very much. lam convinced he will find that the
papers when they are produced will give him all the in-
formation he is justly entitled to ask. I also concur in
thinking that the course which this discussion has taken
must do good in the lonian Islands. It will, I trust, con-
vince the people of those islands that on the part of her
Majesty's Government, on the part of the British Parlia
ment, and on the part of the people of this country, there
is no feeling in regard to them except an earnest desire to
contribute to their happiness and prosperity. And I hope
that they will be impressed with the conviction that we
are so strongly anxious to promote their happiness and
prosperity that nothing would induce us to consent to
inflict upon them the serious injury and evil that would
arise from their annexation to the Kingdom of Greece.
(Laughter.) For it is very well to talk of it as an object
of desire to the people of the lonian Islands ; but, if gen-
tlemen knew the present condition of the kingdom, the
discontent which there prevails, and the indications which
have been recently manifested of events which certainly
are inconsistent with internal tranquillity, I am sure they
would think that in the interests of the lonian Islands her
Majesty's Government have judged rightly in declining to
comply with the wish expressed for their connec-
tion with the Kingdom of Greece. We are discharging
a duty fixed on us by a treaty, and imposed upon us by a
duo sense of regard to the people of the lonian Islands, in
steadily refusing to ccm.ply with that request. I trust the
people will concur with her Majesty's Government in
endeavouring to effect internal improvements in the con-
dition of the islands—improvements of which their condi-
tion is susceptible—and I assure the hon. member and the
house that if this discussion shall in any way contribute to
facilitate such arrange gents, we shall thank the hon. mem-
ber for having originated the discussion to-night. (Hear.)
The motion was then withdrawn.

Leave was given to Mr. Sergeant:PmoTT to bring in a
bill to amend the constitution, practice, and procedure of
the court of the Island of Jersey, which was described, in
the shoat discussion that ensued, as the very worst in the
whole world.

Mr. S. ESTCOURT obtained leave to bring in a bill to
require all friendly and assurance societies to render to
every member thereof, or person depositing money therein,
a copy of their annual accounts.
TRAMWAYS (IRELAND] ACT AMENDMENT
BILL.

The house then went into committee on this bill.
Col. DUNNE moved that clause 2 be struck out.
Mr. BUTT defended the clause.
The house then divided, when the numbers were—
For the clause
Against it
Majority.... —sl
The clause was then agreed to.
Colonel DUNNE took objection to the construction of
clause 3.

Mr. BUTT moved that the chairman report progress.
Mr. HENNESSY, amid loud cries of " Question," ex-
pressed himself much surprised at the course taken by his
hon. and learned friend in proposing that the chairman re-
port progress. His hon. and learned friend had charge of
this bill, and by an arrangement with the Government he
very strangely handed it over to their management. No
Irish bill ever yet received fair consideration from her
Majesty's Government. (" Oh 1 oh I" "Hear, hear," and
cries of "Go on.") If his hon. and learned friend would
give something like a reason for reporting progress he should
be happy to support his motion, which at present he could
not but consider opposed to Irish interests.
Lord N AAS said he thought the opposition to the bill
was most unfair, especially on a Tuesday night, which was
always supposed to be devoted to the measures of individual
members. lie hoped the hon. member would proceed with
his bill.

Mr. BUTT observed that hon. gentlemen opposite were
extremely mistaken in supposing he was not desirous of
going on with the bill. (Laughter, and cries of Go on.)
If he could be assured that the house would patiently dis-
cuss the measure on that occasion, he should be quite ready
to go on with it.

Mr. Will CESIDE hoped the bill would be allowed to
proceed. It was a short one, having only five clauses in it,
and the house appeared to be in a most amiable mood to
entertain it.

After a few words in the same sense from Captain JERVIS
and Sir F. GOLDSMID,
Colonel DUNNE said that the hon. member for Youghal
was not treating the Irish members on that side of the
house fairly. He had got a clause carried for which he
was anxious, and was now ready to give way when there
was no occasion for it. The business on the paper was not
so pressing that the bill could not be proceeded with then,
and there would not be many such opportunities available
for the purpose.
Lord R. CECIL said there was more than met the eye
in this proceeding. (Cries of Oh, oh, and Hear, hear.)
It was evidently the view of the Government to leave
to private members the dinner hours in the house when
the house was usually empty, and when the house
filled, and business of interest was brought forward to
put an rue presamv thorn mc,mh.re aho were
to be easily pressed, so that the Government might Ictsoily
occupy all the valuable hours of the sitting. It was there-
fore the duty of the house to restrain such a proceeding,
which concerned not merely such members, but every in-
dependent member. (Oh.) It was aof piece with the de-
vices which characterised the budget from end to end—
(cries of " Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear")—a device in which
it was prof wed t) wreak the vengeance and spite of the
right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer on
the House of Lords—(Opposition cheers)—a device mot e
worthy of an attorney than a statesman. (Opposition
cheers, and cries of " Question.") If the right hon. gentle-
man chose to press the constitutional question of the bud-
get, he might do so, but he (Lord R, Cecil) was sure that
in the end it would neither increase the right hon. gentle-
man's reputation, nor aid the conduct of the measure he
had in hand. (Opposition cheers.)
Mr. CONINGHAM said that the speech they had just
heard was an unjustifiable and unwarrantable attack upon

the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he retorted that the
Upposition were only endeavouring to make use of the bill
under discussion as a means of delaying the progress of the
Ludget. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI said that there had been a great deal
unnecessary heat imparted into the present discussion.
(Hear, hear.) He did not. think that the Government
were to blame for wishing to expedite the public business
by every means. He tAd the Chancellor of the Exchequer
yesterday, in no spirit of unnecessary hostility, the course
which he thought it most convenient to follow. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer did not acquiesce in his sug-
gestion, and he was quite privileged to adopt his
own view upon the matter. But at the same
time it was necessary to consider the circumstances
under which the present discussion arose. This was the
first night urn which the new rules for the regulation of
public business bad been brought into operktion, and he
thought it was most desirable for the interest of the Govern-
ment and the maintenance of the good feeling and good
temper which ought to exist amongst all parties, that no
collision shoulJ be allowed to take place, and that the con-
duct of the Government should not be subject to suspicion.
He entirely acquitted the Government of any design to
take advantage unfairly of the power which the new regu-
lations gave them. Without wishing to pursue a Puritani-
cal or hypocritical course of criticism, he could not help
making a few remarks upon the conduct of this evening's
business. If the Government could have whispered in the
ear of the hon. n ember for Dungarvan that he should not
bring forward the lonian question, some time might have
been saved. (Hear, hear.) Then again, if they had not
happened to travel into Jersey and discussed the nature of
the laws existing there, they might have been able to
make better progress. The postponement of the question
of belligerent rights was placed on high public grounds,
but he thought it most unfortunate that that question had
not been brought forward by the hon. member for Liver-
pool, and he entirely dissented from the reasons advanced
for its postponement, He thought that so moderate a
motion, couched as it was in such temperate language,
would at th,t time have formed a wise text,
one which would be greatly to the advantage of
the people of this country if the discussion had been taken.
But he did not charge the Government with being ac-
tuated by any other feeling than that which arose from a
deep sense of duty. (Hear.) He could pardon the Minister
for urging the postponement of the hon. member for Tiver-
ton's motion respecting the claims of the Baron De Bode,
which had been discussed for the last thirty years without
any person being able to understand it. (Laughter.) Then
on the subject of the Danish claims, with respect to which
it was evident the Government had avoided discussion,
their conduct, he thought, might be viewed without any
suspicion ; but when they came to the question before them,
a practical question, not like the lonian question, or the
Danish claims, or the Baron De Bode's case, but a practical
measure of reform, deeply interesting to the people of Ire-
land—(oh, oh, and laught ir)—brought forward by a gen-
tleman who seemed to possess the confidence of her Ma-
jesty's Government—(Opposition cheers)—a question in
which, by the majority that had voted on the first division,
the house had shown its interest ; and when they rmrem-
bered that this was the only night on which independent
members could bring forward questions of interest, he
thought it most unfortunate that the Government should
endeavour to seize the occasion for the advancement of any
measure of their own. He hoped the house would not sanc-
tion the motion for reporting progress, which the hon. gen-
tleman so deeply interested in this bill had moved—(great
laughter)—and he recommended that it should be with-
drawn, that they should proceed at once with the bill in
committee, and not allow so interesting and important a
measure to be delayed. (Laughter, and hear.)
•

Sir G. GREY said the right hon. gentleman seemed to
be under the impression that this practice had been brought
on for the first time that night, but the usage had been uni-
versal, that under the circumstances the report should be
brought up on Tuesday, the resolutions having been agreed
to on the previous evening. He wished it to be understood
that there was nothing at all novel in the course which was
at present pursued, and which had unnecessarily brought
some severe strictures from the noble lord (Lord R. Cecil.)
Mr. BENTINCK said there was no precedent for the
proposed course of proceeding, and be for one only hoped
that members on his (the Opposition) side of the house who
cre detormiaod to defend tUe rights of priyge wewborp,

would persevere in their opposition to the chairman report-
ing progress. (Hear.)

Lord PALMERSTON said the proceeding now going on
was quite unprecedented. lie had often seen hon. gentle-
men on the Opposition side of the house at a late hour of
the night proposing to report progress, in opposition to the
hon. member who had charge of the bill, but ho had never
known the proposal of the gentleman who brought in the
bill to report progress meet with opposition such as had
been exhibited on the present occasion. There must cer-
tainly be something peculiarly interesting in this Tramways
Bill to have brought together so large an assemblage, no
doubt in the interest of Ireland. (Laughter.) As the hon.
member who had charge of the bill wished to report progress
he hoped there would be an equally large attendance on the
next evening upon which the bill should be further debated.
(Laughter.)

The committee then divided, when the numbers were—
For the motion
Against
Majority —lo2
The house resumed, and the Cnii.inmAN reported pro-
gress.

PRINCESS ALICE (QUEEN'S MESSAGE).
The report of the committee upon the Queen's message
was brought up, and leave was given to bring in a bill to
carry the object of the resolution of the committee into effect.