The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-06 00:00:00

THIRD READINGS.

The Gateshead Quay, limnpstead Junction Railway,
and Vale of Neath Railway Bills were read a third time
and passed

COURT OF CHANCERY.
Lord LYNDHURST said he had given notice of his
intention to draw the attention of the house to the proceed-
ings of the Court of Chancery on Friday next, but as he
perceived a noble lord had had a motion on the paper for
that evening resuecting Italian affairs, he should postpone
proceeding with his subject until next week.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he hoped the noble
and learned lord would persevere in his intention, as no
person was so competent to deal with the question.
Lord LYNDHURST said he should most certainly do
so on Monday or Tuesday next.

PETITIONS.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Derby-
shire complaining of the exclusion of Dissenters from the
administration of trust funds of endowed grammar schools,
and also a petition against church-rates, and another against
the trade in opium.
THE ITALIAN QUESTION.
Lord STRATFORD DE REDCLIFFE read the terms
of his motion with respect to Italian affairs, it was as fol-
lows :—" That an humble address be presented to her Ma-
jesty expressing the thanks of this house for her Majesty's
gracious communication of the deeply important correspon-
dence on the Italian affairs, presented recently to both
Houses of Parliament by her Majesty's command, and gra-
ciously acknowledges the unquestionable evidence that
correspondence affords of her Majesty's earnest
and important endeavours to avert the calamities
of war. That her Majesty may be assured of the
loyal confidence with which this house relies on her Ma-
jesty's determination to maintain neutrality, and that finally
it be represented to her Majesty that while every
suitable endeavour be made under her Majesty's authority
for the completion of our defences on sea and land—the
operations of the belligerent powers be carefully observed,
with a view in particular of such offers of mediation on
her Majesty's part as may lead to the
_conclusion
of peace on just and comprehensive grounds."
The noble earl said he thought it would be for the conve-.
nience of all parties that the question should be brought
forward on Friday next.
The Earl of DERBY thought that day would suit the
convenience of all parties.
ATLANTIC TELEGRAPH BILL.
On the motion for reading this bill a third time a
lengthened conversation ensued, in which the Earl of
GRANVILLE, Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY, and several
other noble lords took part, the till was eventually read a
third time and passed.
PETTY SESSIONAL DIVISIONS BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
OUR NAVAL DEFENCES.

Lord LYNDHURST, who had given notice of his inten-

tion to draw their lordships' attention to the military and
naval defences of the country, then rose and said—My
lords, it was suggested to me that, after the discussion which
took place the other night on the question of my noble and
learned friend, and especially after the statement of my
noble friend opposite and the speeches of my noble friends
the two noble earls on these benches, I should withdraw
the notice which I had laid on your lordships' table. At
first I was inclined to do so ; but the subject is one of such
great importance that it ought to be repeatedly discussed, in
order to satisfy the people of this country of the necessity
of submitting to those charges and those expenses which
our present situation requires. I was the more disposed to
proceed with this question because there is a party in this
country of whom I wish to speak with the greatest respect,
a party likely very soon to increase in power and influence,
who are not disposed to believe that we ought to expend our
resources at present in any extension of our military and
naval power, and that, so far from doing so, we ought to
abstain from any extension of that power, because by doing
so we shall involve ourselves in hostilities. Now, my

lords, I beg leave, in the first place, to say that any obser-
vation which I shall make will be made, not with the view
of aggression, but of defence. (Hear, hear.) I shall say
nothing whatever in any party spirit, for party can have
nothing whatever to do with this question. (Cheers.) I
shall endeavour as simply as I can to point out these cir-
cumstances and those topics which I think are important
for the consideration of your lordships, leaving it to others
who are more acquainted with military and naval details
than I can pretend to be to fill up and supply the defects in
the statement which I shall make to your lordships. The
first circumstance that strikes me in considering this sub-

ject is the great difference between our present and former
position. (Hear, hear.) That is a distinction which ought
never to be lost sight of. We have hitherto felt the greatest
confidence in our situation and in our domestic safety. We
owe that confidence to our naval superiority—to the superior
number of our vessels and the skill and gallantry of our
seamen. We have been accustomed always to look to what
we call our wooden walls as our best defence, and experi-
ence justifies us in that opinion. We have sometimes, in-
deed, received checks and affronts. The Dutch at one time

sailed up the Thames, burnt our ships in the Medway and
in the river. At a much later period the combined ships

of France and Spain chased our fleets into the waters of
Plymouth under the heights of Mount Edgecumbe. But
those clouds soon passed away. They were amply avenged,
and we shone out with more distinguished lustre than be-
fore. My lords, there was another source of our confidence
and safety, and not an immaterial one—namely, the diffi-
culty of transporting any body of troops from the opposite
coasts to our own shores. It was impossible to collect any
number of troops on an oppoite coast without being observed
by us, and without giving us notice and allowing us time to
prepare ourselves against them. Besides, an expedition of
that kind was necessarily liable to many casualties. Any
joint operation, therefore, from different points was impos-
sible, or nearly so. A few thousand troops might, perhaps,
occasionally be landed on our coasts, sufficient, indeed, to
give trouble, but not sufficient to excite any fear of danger.
The greatest force that ever was landed here was that of the
Pririce of Orange, amounting, I think, to about 14,000 or
15,000 men. But that force was invited to this country by
some of the most eminent men in England. It was received
with enthusiasm by the people. It led to no catastrophe,
and James 11. retired, the victim of his own bigotry, folly,
and tyranny. But that expedition was nearly defeated by
an accident. It sailed down the Channel with a fair wind.
When it arrived opposite Torbay a dense fog arose. It
passed therefore the place where it was intended to disem •
bark. It was followed by the English fleet. It was there-
fore in the greatest peril ; but on a sudden the fog dis-
persed. The wind veered round, drove the Dutch fleet into
Torbay, and checked the progress of the English fleet. The
English fleet shortly afterwards was dispersed in a storm.
I mention this to show the accidents to which, under our
old system, enterprises of this kind were subject. This was
our past situation—a situation of perfect security. What
is it now ? A great change has occurred. That change
arises from the application of steam power to commercial
navigation and to naval warfare. What do we know of the
effect of that power upon naval warfare ? We have had no
experience of it. No peraon can venture to predict what
will be its effect. I have consulted many officers, both of
the army and of the navy, upon the subject, and I have
never been able to persuade myself that any one one can
with any degree of confidence say what will be the result of
this great change. I have read in the admirable work of
Sir Howard Douglas that military officers in France be-
lieve that this change has a great effect upon our naval
power, and will reduce it to comparative unimportance.
There is one advailta.gewhich we hitherto have had in naval
combat over our adversaries under the old system—the
skill and experience of our seamen, and their knowledge of
everything connected with the management of a vessel.
(Hear.) Unfortunately, though we have not entirely lost
that advantage, it has greatly lessened under the new sys-
tem. There is a change in the armaments in the materials,
in the construction, and in the form of war vessels. A great
facility of boarding arises out of the new system, and num
bers, therefore, would have a great advantage. Above all,
the new system of manoeuvring which must follow this
new system is such that it is doubtful what would be
the issue of a naval contest. (Hear.) I have stated these
points for your consideration, because you will be satisfied
when you have considered them that we cannot, as hereto-
fore, rely with perfect confidence upon our naval defences.
(Hear, hear.) Still, however, and perhaps more so in con-
sequence of what I have stated, it becomes necessary that
we should carry our naval machinery and everything con-
nected with it to the highest point of efficiency, and that we
should refuse no sums necessary for that purpose. (Cheers.)
Let me now, my lords, call attention to what is the actual
state of our navy. I will begin by referring to last year. I
speak of the spring of last year, and of steamers, which are
the only vessels which it is material to consider. (Hear,
hear.) Last year we were in this position :—France ex-
ceeded us in line-of-battle ships in a small proportion, but
she exceeded us in an enormous proportion in steam fri-
gates. At present we surpass her in line-of-battle ships
considerably, but we are still greatly inferior in those im-
portant vessels, steam frigates. We shall, in the spring of
next year, surpass her still more. in line-of-battle ships, but
we shall still be inferior to her in steam frigates. This is
a point for the consideration of your lordships, and for the
consideration of the country. (Hear, hear.) Give me
leave, my lords, to mention one circumstance which I think
most material for our consideration when we are considering
the subject of naval warfare. You will make a great mis-
take if you suppose for a moment that the relative power
depends entirely on the number or size or force of the ves-
sel. A more--I will not say a much more important, but
a very important power consists in trained crews of vessels.
(Hear.) The French for several years have had a system
of training of a most perfect kind—training in the conduct
of the vessel, and training not only in the conduct of the
vessel, but in gunnery. The moment a French ship is afloat
that moment they have trained men ready to go on board
the vessel. lam sorry to say, from all I hear and all I ob-
serve, we have not such a system as that to which I. have
referred—a system of the utmost importance, but which in
this country hitherto has been almost entirely neglec.
(Hear.) Now, with respect to force. What is required,
first, in the Channel ? We require not only a force for war-
fare equal to France, but we require something more: We
require a powerful reserve. (Hear.) Franco requires no
your lordships to,
reserve. The reason is this, and I beg
mark it. If in a coral* of the two fleets tne English. fleet
should be 'victorious, we have no power of landing with any