The Sun.
London, England, 1861-03-28 00:00:00

TEE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, MARCH 28, 1861.

the ministry, Ind being confident that after having
insured the dignity and independence of the Pope
and the complete freedom of the Church. the priv-
eiple of non-intervention will, in concert with
France, be applied to Rome, and that Rome will
be made the capital of Italy, passes to the order of
the day." This seems a suitable winding up of
the debate, and is all that the present position of
things requires.

The strike is unhappily progressing. The work-
ing men call it a lock out on the part of the
employers; but, to all intents and purposes, the
movement is more accurately to be described as a
strike on the part of the operatives. For what is
really and truly the English of it all—what is the
precise meaning of the deplorable incidents now
occurring ? Let us look at the facts : and from
those facts alone draw our conclusions. An irritable
feeling between employers an d employed,engendered
by the lamentable differences which took place in
1860 between the men and their masters—that old
and bitter feeling of irritation engendered originally
by the strike of last year and intensified subse-
quently by the severe privations consequent upon
the wintry season which has so recently expired—
that old and bitter feeling of irritation being known
still to exist (threatening at any moment
another calamitous manifestation of its existence),
the masters have themselves voluntarily come for-
ward, as we are all aware, with a proposition, all
things considered, a proposition of a most reason-
able character, designed to put an end for once and
for all to the periodical agitation of what is popu-
larly known as the Nine Hours' Movement. That pro-
position we have already explained in these columns,
and we cannot but think now after a more careful
consideration of its bearing that if it does not at
once comprise within itself a solution of the existing
difficulties, it does certainly comprise within itself
the germ of that solution. The operatives are
asked now by their employers with a view to re-
move the grievances complained of by the former,
they are asked now frankly by the latter, by their
masters, to consider whether or not the good they
aspire after in their own behalf may not be attained
at once very readily by the payment of their wages
henceforth per hour instead of as heretofore per day.
As we took occasion to remark on Tuesday evening
when adverting to this painful subject of discus-
sion, the average pay received by the skilled
mechanics under the old system of weekly pay-
ment for daily labour shows, upon analysis, that
they have thus hitherto been compensated for their
industry at the rate of 61d. per hour per day. The
employers proposing now, of their own free will, to
add another id. per hour out of their own pockets
for the same amount of labour from the hands of
this superior class of operatives ! Supposing the
skilled mechanics to accede to this proposition,
therefore—certainly, on the face of ' it, no
very extortionate one in its character—
they would, by simply consenting to be
paid henceforth at the rate of so much per hour
instead of as formerly at the rate of so much per
day—they would actually, we say, be receiving
(in lieu of 6!d. for every hour's work done)
the full round SEVENPENCE! The offer is
no sooner made, however, than it is per-
versely and peremptorily, and point-blank refused.
It is the Irishman in the water again—" I will be
drowned and nobody shall save me !" According
to the arch ringleader of the Nine Hours' Move-
ment, Mr. GEORGE POTTER, to wit, there are
already from 400 to 500 of these determined work-
men (in consequence of that point blank refusal of
theirs) at this moment out of employment.
Mr. POTTER and his sympthisers call this no strike
on the part of the operatives, but a deliberate lock-
out by the employers themselves. A monstrous
misnomer, a perfectly self-evident fallacy or self
delusion on their part, seeing that every one of
those 400 or 500 operatives can obtain employment
from their old masters whenever they please, so
soon as they can Make up their minds simply to
receive their wages at the rate, not as hitherto of
6td. per hour, but at the improved rate of actually
sevenpence ! Whether they would work nine
hours then, or whether they would work ten,
would remain a matter entirely optional with
themselves. This additional farthing per hour,
which they are now asked to receive, is however
apparently more than they can as yet induce them-
selves to swallow. They will consent to no com-
promise. They will listen to no reason. They are
now consequently, to the number of from 400 to
500, out of employment. And what is the nature
of the counter-proposition made thereupon by Mr.
GEORGE POTTER in the course of his remarks
last evening in St. James's Hall to some 5,000
operatives ? He suggested simply that 100,000
workmen should sub3cribe a penny per week,
thus producing an enormous income with which to
compel Messrs. KELK and LUCAS and others to give
in eventually. " Let every man," he says, " sub-
scribe his money; let him keep away from the
public-house, and save his money ; for a great gulf
was opening between the masters and workmen,
which might cause the workmen much suffering,
but which would bury the fortunes of some of the
master builders in dust and ashes." The public
now have the two propositions before them, and
they can judge between them ; they can recognise
in the one how much there is of calm and impartial
forethought, and how much there is in the other of
passion, and almost, we might say, of positive
malignity.

By the last steamer from America, which
brings news up to the 16th, we receive one
important piece of information in a very few
words, it is this,—" The new Southern tariff will
come into operation on the Ist May. Compared
with the United States tariff 30 per cent, duties
are reduced to• 25 per cent., and 24 and 19 per
cent. duties to 15. The tariff also contains a large
10 per cent. schedule, and a small free list." We
hardly need say how much is involved in this
departure from the bold free trade programme
which had at first been sketched by the seceding
States. We had been led to look for such a long
list of duty-free articles as should almost inevitably
make the South the recipient of the entire foreign
trade of the country, and render Charleston the
Hamburg of North America. And this was to be
their grand means of securing the friendship of
commercial Europe.

From this programme there is a sad falling off.
The ❑ew Southern Tariff which comes into effect
about two months hence, is one after all of•higb,

if not of prohibitive duties. 25 per cent., 15 per
cent., and 10 per cent. are the duties still retained;
they are lower than those of the North, bat it may
be doubted whether the existing commercial
facilities of the North will not almost counterbalance
the difference. The duties are at least such as to
offer a considerable obstruction to trade, and
such as will certainly not sweep at once the com-
merce of Europe into Southern ports. All that
can be said is, that the Southern Tariff is the oppo-
site of the insane protective tariff just passed in
the North, and that it is probably designed for
revenue, not for protection, in accordance
with the provision in' their new constitution,
that
to Congress is not to have power
foster any branch of industry by

protective duties. There, however, its merits cease
to a great extent it is still a smuggler's tariff.
It is this tariff, however, in connection with the
famous expedient of laying an export duty on
eotton, which is to provide ample funds for main-
taining the 50,000 men, whom the South has
levied to defend secession and slavery against the
' North. The export duty must, however, prove a
failure. If the supply of cotton be sufficient, it
will fail because the purchaser will deduct the tax
from his offer, as he can always do when the
market is full. But should it be the reverse,
should England and France be charged the frac-
tion more of a penny to maintain the Southern
army, the revenge is easy. Cotton is but an
annual, or at least generally so. It will grow
freely over a zone of at least sixty degrees
of latitude, and our capital will at once
be invested in creating new sources of
supply, which in a year or two will
accomplish the most desirable object of ren-
dering us independent altogether of a supply from
so capricious a source as the labour of a vast army
of slaves who, any day, may turn on their oppres-
sors and refuse to grow cotton any longer. We
must say that, in the interests of freedom and
humanity, we hope the export tax on cotton will
be persevered in ; and that Manchester will have
to pay it. It will pay it for one twelvemonths to
be released from the tax for ever. Our own
East and West Indies, and Africa, besides other
places, will soon supply us with far more than we
need ; and the result will be, cheaper cotton,
American slaves reduced to half their value or to
no value, and the seceders for slavery compelled
to acknowledge that they have beggared themselves
by endeavouring to spare themselves and to tax the
world for their infernal domestic institution.
On the other hand, the North will find its trade
crippled by its disgraceful protectionist tariff. Its
revenues must therefore diminish; and in its con-
flict with the South it will find that by its own
selfishness it has also deprived itself of the sinews
of war. The contest between the two sections opens
therefore by acts of fiscal selfishness and folly on
both sides.

Among our numerous Benevolent Institutions
there is not one which is more obviously entitled
to popular favour than the Railway Benevolent
Institution. If its generous aim does not at once
literally " strike home" to us all, we cannot at any
rate, any one of us, stir abroad without its thrust-
ing itself, more or less forcibly, before our recogni-
tion. There is scarcely any member of the entire
community but must be indirectly, if not
directly, interested in noticing the steady ad-
vance made in its prosperous development. It is
an association but very recently formed, the period
when it was originally instituted dating back no
further than the May of 1858. So that the Public
Dinner which took place last evening at the London
Tavern, in aid of its funds, was only the third of
those nominal demonstrations. The Right Hon. the
Lord Mayor (CuBITT) occupying the chair, and
being accompanied thither to that charitable ban-
quet by the Sheriffs of the City of London. The
object set forth in the programme of the Railway
Benevolent Institution is no other than the provid-
ing relief for the necessitous orphans, widows,
and children of the salaried officers and ser-
vants upon the railways of the United King-
dom. The management consists, as the more
watchful sections of the general public are already
aware, of the " president, trustees, treasurer, hono-
rary secretary (who are members by virtue of their
respective offices), and fifty subscribers, twenty-five
of whom retire annually by rotation, but only
twenty are eligible for re-election." The income
is variously derivable from donations, subscriptions,
and legacies, two-thirds of the annual income being
set apart for the clothing, maintenance, and educa-
tion of orphans and necessitous children, and one-
third to the relief of widows. From the re-
port of yesterday's proceedings, at the Lon-
don Tavern, as given in another part of today's
impression of our journal, it will be seen how satis-
factory has already been the growth of an institu-
tion whicir is yet only, however, in one of the
earliest stages of its development. Earnestly may
every traveller upon any one of the railways of the
United Kingdom wish yet more and more success
in the future to the Railway Benevolent Institution ;
and pretty confidently too (it is satisfactory to
know) may these good wishes be cherished under a
continuance of the institution's present able
management.

HANOVER-SQUARE ROOMS.—The musical enter-
tainments of Mr. Frederick Penna—the second of which,
under the title of "Old Friends and New Acquaintances,"
was given last night in the Hanover-square Rooms—are not
merely "entertaining" in the conventional sense, but to a
considerable extent pleasantly instructive. On Saturday
evening " The Oratorio Composers of the 18th and 19th
Centuries," which was given with entire success on Mon-
day, will be repeated.

THE WESTERN BANK.—GLASGOW, Wednesday.
—A gentleman, on the part of the directors of the Western
Bank, has offered £200,000 for a settlement of all the actions
at law now in dependence. The liquidators, who had
named this sum, recommend it to the acceptance of the
shareholders, with whom it now lies whether the litigation
shall be brought to a close or not.
DISFOSING OF FISH REFUSE.—Yesterday a
woman named Sayers was fined ss. and costs, at Hammer-
smith Police-court, for throwing fish refuse on the public
carriage-way. The woman drove a donkey cart, and
pushed the offal through the bottom of the vehicle.
WITNESSES IN POLICE COURTS.—In the Sheriff's

Court this morning, a person, named Cahill, sought to re-

cover the sum of 10s. 6d. from a Mr. Marks, for attenlin,g
on his behalf at the Mansion-house as a witness. The
Judge told the plaintiff he could not recover for mere loss
of time. The law said it was a duty owing to society for a
person to give evidence.

At Marlborough-street Police Court this morn-
ing, Ada Williams was fined 20s. for assaulting the pro-
prietress of " Sally's " coffee-house in the Haymarket.

BIGAMY.—A man named Sadler was yesterday

fully committed for trial from the Westminster Police
Court, for marrying Charlotte Tanner while his first wife
was still alive.

HULL, AND THE NATIONAL PURSE. —ln the
report of the Board of Trade on the Hull Docks Bill, now
before Parliament, the following statement is made :—ln

ieu of differential duties on foreign ships, there is now paid
by the Treasury out of the pablic purso, to the ,Old Dock
Company an annuity of £6,333, which goes into their gene-,
ral revenues ; to the town an increasing income, now
amounting to more than £4,000 a year, which goes in relief
of borough rates ; and to the Hull Trinity House an in-
creasing sum, now amounting to more than £12,000 a year,
which goes in charity, and in paying the salaries of the
Elder Brethren. These differential dues were imposed for
the purpose of discouraging foreign ships, at a time when
such discouragement was in accordance with the general
policy of this country. 'When that policy changed these
local bodies, instead of being compelled to follow the
general policy of the country, were compensated, and not
for the differential dues on the foreign shipping which
under the policy had entered or probably would enter the
napowrotu,pnbboteuleitcn of
policy
differential does on the enormously increased
m
receivingforeignh as
h n
shippingthis
extraordinaryt o thew hi
e ht
ph or t . 1' y h i svery
They
compensationgeavin
our
now
for a long series of years, and the effect of th,3 bills now
before Parliament, by increasing accommodation for trade,
will be, so far as the Trinity House and the Corporation
are concerned, to increase the payments which the public
taxpayer is making annually to the town and port of Hull.
HOUSEBREAKING AT PENDLETO.N.---At the Sal-
ford Police-court yesterday, two boys, named Chas. Tetlow
and Henry 'Wilton, were carged with burglariously enter-
ing the premises, No. o, Egerton-street, Ellor-street, Pen-
dleton, and stealing a piece of carpet. The two lads, accom-
panied by another, have been in the habit of visiting houses
in the locality, under the pretence of disposing of sand, but
had been in the habit of committing thefts. Tetlow was

committed to the New Bailey for one month, and was sen-
tenced to be afterwards confined for five years in a reforma-

.......
tory;_ Wilton was ordered to be whipped and discharged.

L E N E NV

PARIS, WEDNESDAY EVENING.

The Patric of this evening says:--
" Five vesse's have arrived at Genoa bringing
back the troops from Messina. These troops will
immediately proceed to 'Bologna, and will form a
part of the 4th corps d'arinee, under the command
of General Cialdini.

" The first division of this corps d'armee has
already arrived at Ferrara, and protects the lower
line of the Fo, behind which is placed the Austrian

corps d'arrnee."
The Patric also contains the following :
" The disturbances in Bosnia have not had any
serious result. The Porte has satisfied the claims
of the Mussulman chiefs by restoring them their

former rights."

WARSAW, MARCH 27.
The following reforms have beenittroclaimed :
" The present regulations for public instruction
in Poland are abolished.

" A special Commission for Public Worship and
Instruction, under the direction of M. Wielopolski,
is appointed for carrying out reforms in matters
relating to public instruction.
" National establishments of a superior class for
public instruction, and especially an academy for
legal instruction, are to be opened.
"A Council of State is to be established, com-
posed of members of the clergy, dignitaries, and the
most distinguished persons of Poland.
" The right of petition is granted to the nation.
"The Government councillors, the district coun-
cillors, and the municipalities of the larger towns
are to be elected by the inhabitants."

CONSTANTINOPLE, MARCH 20.

The Levant Berald publishes the scheme of a
forced loan of 12 million of Turkish pounds, which
is under the consideration of the Ministry, and
which, the Levant Herald states, is likely to be
enforced. " The amount is to be receivable within
two years, and repayable in ten, with 6 per cent.
interest."

BOMBAY, MARCH 1.
Lord Canning returned to Calcutta on Feb. 18.
The British troops have advanced by three
marches into Sikkim.

The country is abandoned by the people. Col.
Harvey, of the 43d Regiment, is dead.
The English mail of Feb. 4 has arrived.
Government S3curities.—Four per Cents., 781;

Fives, 94.1.

CALCUTTA, FEB. 27.

Exchange and Government securities are unal

tered.

Freights, 755;

TURIN, MARCH 27 (Evening.)
The discussion on the Roman question was re.
sumed to-day in the Chamber of Deputies.

Signor Chiaves spoke against the transfer of the
capital of the kingdom of Italy to Rome.

Count Cavour refuted the arguments brought
forward by Signor Chiaves, and maintained that it
was urgent that Rome should be immediately de-
clared the capital of Italy. " The transfer will," he
said, " take place in consequence of a law adopted
by the Chambers and without any disturbances.
The time for it will be fixed by law.

" We offer to the spiritual power of the Pope all
the guarantees for its liberty and moral force which
a friendly Government can ever give to the

Papacy.

" I hope that public opinion will very soon be
disposed for the proclamation, and that France
will agree with us in this matter."
Count Cavour supported Signor Buoncompagni's
proposal, which was almost unanimously agreed to
by the Chamber.
The debate then closed.

VIENNA, MARCH 28.

According to the announcements which appear
in the Vienna journals of to-day the Emperor will
not open the Hungarian Diet in person, 'but will
proceed later to Buda for his coronation.

which places are to be connected by a line of tele-
graphs and military stations.
BOURSE, March 27.—The market for some time
after the opening remained in the same inanimate
state as yesterday, with pi ices about the same. A
report, however, becoming current that a collision
had taken place between some'Austrian and Pied•
montese troops, Stocks became offered, and prices
gave way, Threes being now at 67f 85c. Railways
slightly lower. The following were the last quo-
tations :

4,4 per per Cents ... 95 60, Credit Fotacier 940
Do. end month.... 95 65 ' Belgian 41 —
3 per Cents
Do. end month 67 95 ' Roman
Bank Shares 2590 ' Austrian
Credit Mobilier.... 655 —lSpanish Threes —
Do. Account 656 25 , Home Debt

COUNT CAVOUR.'S sPFRCH ON THE

sl?0,11AN Q UESTION.

The following is the fall text of the speech of
Count Cavour on the Roman question, delivered
in the Sardinian Chamber of Deputies on the 25th
inst., as reported in the Turin journal L' Italie of
Tuesday last :

" The hon. member, in interrogating the Ministry,
has accurately stated the question. He asks why
the principle of non-intervention is not applied to
Rome, and claims from the Ministry an explanation
of the line of conduct which it intends to follow.
The Roman question ought to be thoroughly con-
sidered. I shall not content myself with replying
to the question of the hon. member, but I shall state
fully my own opinion with regard to this problem,
the solution of which interests 300,000,000 of
Catholics, and will exercise an immense isfluence
upon the world. Oratorical artifices would be here
entirely out of place. When this question was still

a remote one, and did not demand an immediate
solution, prudence dictated that the Ministry
should treat it with reserve; but now, although
immense difficulties still surround him who has the
honour to address you, he will endeavour to satisfy
your expectations.

" The first truth to be proclaimed is, that it
is impossible to conceive a constituted Italian king-
dom without Rome for its capital. If we have
a right—if it is our duty to wish to possess
Rome, it is because of this impossibility. 'The
honourable member justly said that this truth is
instinctively felt and unhesitatingly proclaimed
by all who judge with candour our affairs. Italy
has, indeed, much yet left to do to organise herself
—to solve the problem of her internal adminis-
tration, and to overthrow the secular obstacles
erected within her own bosom against political
order. In order to arrive at these results she has
need of a union, a concord which the Roman ques-
tion will render unattainable so long as it remains
unsettled.

" Eminent and sincere men may feel a preference
for one town or another, but it is incontestable that
if Rome were once our capital all discussion on
this point would thenceforth be impossible. The
fact alone would bring about an absolute and uni-
versal agreement. I see, therefore, with regret,
that eminent men—patriots who have rendered
great service to the country, and to whom the
honourable M. Audinot has alluded—attribute the
necessary choice which we have made of our natural
capital to futile or trivial motives. This choice has
been determined by history, and by the elements
of the civilisation of a people. What is the history
of Rome but the history of a capital—more than
that, of a capital of the world ? It will become now
that of a great nation.
" I appeal to the patriotism of all Italians. Let
our unanimity make manifest to Europe the neces-
sity which these facts impose upon us. I avow that
personally I perhaps prefer the simple and plain
streets of my native city to the ancient and modern
monuments of the Eternal City. But my resolution
is taken, like that of my countrymen ; like that—

and I speak now as the representative of Turin—of
the noble city which is resigned to that sacrifice
which the country demands of it.

"We must go to Rome, but without trenching
upon the independence of the Pope, without bring-
ing the Church under the domination of the State.
If—though I believe that to be impossible—France
found herself powerless to oppose our entry into
Rome, we would not, in order to effect that entry,
use violence towards her. Let us not imitate
Austria in the ingratitude avowed with a deplor-
able courage by the lips of one of her statesmen.
This sort of courage she has always displayed. At
the Congress of Paris no Power was so hostile to
Russia, so obstinately opposed to peace, as Austria,
which had been saved by her but a few years before.
As for us, bound as we are to Russia by a friend-
ship which a passing cloud obscured, I hope only
for a moment, let us show by our conduct towards
France that we do not resemble the Power which
we have fought against with the aid of the French

armies.
" When, in 1859, we asked for the support of
France, the Emperor did not dissemble to himself
the difficulties of the situation in which this war
would place him with respect to the Court of Rome.
We cannot, after having accepted the boon, aggra-
vate the embarrassment in which it may involve
the benefactor.
" If we can succeed in convincing Catholics that
the reunion of Rome with the rest of Italy cannot
place the Church in a position of dependence, the
question will have made a great step towards solu-
tion. Many conscientious people think indeed:that
if the Parliament were in Rome, and the King at
the Quirinal, the Pope would lose much of his inde-
pendence, and would be nothing more than the
grand almoner or the chaplain of the King.
"If these fears were well founded, I should not
hesitate to say that this reunion would be fatal, not
only to Catholicism but to Italy. No greater
calamity can befal a people than the concentration
in the hands of the Government of spiritual and
temporal power. When these powers are united
liberty disappears, the rule of caliphs prevails, It
will never be so in Italy.
"Let us examine under all its aspects this ques-
tion of the influence of the union of Rome with Italy
upon the independence of the spiritual power.
" Now, in the first instance, does the temporal
power render the Pontiff really independent? If it
were so, I would hesitate to solve the problem. But
no person can maintain such a view. In the times
when sovereigns, resting upon the Divine right,
regarded their domination as a right of absolute
property over men and things, I can understand
that a power of this nature was a guarantee for the
Pope. The authority was at least submitted to, if
not accepted. But since 1789 Governments have
reposed upon the consent, expressed or tacit, of the
people. France, England, Prussia, proclaim this
principle. Russia approaches it, or at least no longer
repulses it as the Emperor Nicholas did. A
Power which does not rest upon this-basis, which
maintains an absolute antagonism between the
people which it governs and itself, has no longer
the possibility of existence. Now, this antago-
nism appears in the Papal States, and appears as
an evil without remedy. I appeal to the testimony
of a man who devoted himself to an impossible
task at Rome, whose death was one of the greatest
misfortunes Italy has experienced.
" The people, exhausted by the struggles of the
empire, supported for some time a regime which was
rendered less harsh by the goodness of the Pontiff
and the enlightenment of Cardinal Consuldi. In
1821 antagonism broke out. In 1831 it showed
itself more vividly. From Bologna to Ancona it
openly blazed out.
"Now for nearly two years the Romagna is
free, is united to us, has a free press, free associa-
tions, there is one clerical journal at Bologna—it
is more violent than the Armonia of Turin.
" Has there been manifested among these popu-
lations any regret whatsoever for the ancient Go-
vernment ? They have criticised certain Ministers
and the Ministry itself. No one that I know has
demanded of me the restoration of the former au-
thorities.
"A fact more remarkable still—the Marches and
Umbria have been, owing to causes dependant on
military and political circumstances, evacuated by
the armed forces. Not a soldier remains there.
They remain entrusted to the patriotism of the
National Guards, exposed to the attempts of a
party installed quite near, at some leagues off, at
Rome ; the conduct of these people has been pure
from all excess, and admirable in wisdom, although
they were menaced by Catholics travestied as
Zouaves.

" I am not the defender of the temporal
power, but I must be just towards it. I hold nether
the Pope nor his Ministers to be responsible for the
atrocious acts to which, at certain points, the reac-
tion tended. These acts only prove the deplorable
influence which such a regime exercises over human
character,
"I believe I have sufficiently established the an-
tagonism which exists between the Holy See and
the populations.. If that be so, this power is not for
the Pope a guarantee of independence.
" It is said to be necessary for Catholic society,
and that it ought to be guaranteed by the Catholic

Powers. Are human sacrifices still necessary to
render the gods propitious? Is it in the name of
Him who gave His life for the world the sacrifice
of a nation should be demanded for His represen-
tative ?

"It is said : But the Pope may conciliate the
people by reforms ; and those who think thus
make efforts to obtain from the Pope such con-
cessions, never suffering themselves to be dis-
couraged by refusals. But this is asking what
the Pope cannot grant ; for his position as a
political sovereign is subordinate to his rank as
he ad of the Church, since his temporal power
ought to be to him no more than a guarantee,
a safeguard for his spiritual power, which latter
must stand supreme. By making concessions
he would violate his duties as a Pontiff.
He may accept and tolerate certain institutions,
but he may not consecrate them. Thus, for ex'
ample, he tolerates civil marriage in France, but
he cannot proclaim it in his own dominions. It
is the same with a host of other institutions
which are opposed to Catholic precepts, but of
which it is, nevertheless, necessary to admit the
existence. The Pope should not be reproached for
that which is in reality not obstinacy but firmness,
and for which I hold that Catholics ought to be
grateful to him as a meritorious fidelity to his duty.
" I have often combated the opinion of those who
have insisted that the Pope should grant reforms,
and have blamed him for not conceding them. .At
the Congress of Paris I was asked to point out which
might be exacted of him, I refused to indicate all.
I professed openly the opinions which I am uphold-
ing here ; and, in conjunction with M. Minghetti,
who took an important part in these negotiations,
I declared that the only means of governing those
countries without military occupation was the ab-
solute separation of the spiritual from the temporal

power.
" All these efforts will be defeated by the radical
impossibilities which result from the confusion of
the two powers. Europe has long been labouring
to invent reforms for Turkey ; there is not an effort
which has not been made for this purpose; it has
been sought to reconcile there the rights of civil
life with the Government such as it is there con-
stituted. The attempt has not succeeded, and never
will succeed ; the union of the two powers renders
its failure inevitable.
" Thus the temporal power does not make the
Pope independent. Can it be said that in losing it
he will only change the form of his subjection ?
No ; we can give him the independence of which be
stands so much in need.
"It is precisely the separation of the Powers
which will give it to him. When the Church is once
emancipated from all connection with the temporal
authority, and separated from the State by dis-
tinctly marked limits, the liberty of the Holy See
will no longer have to suffer from the shackles im-
posed upon it by concordats and the prerogatives of
the civil power, which the temporal power of the
Court of Rome has alone rendered necessary up to
the present time. I believe that every sincere
Catholic desires above all things such an enfran-
chisement. The only difficulty is to discover by
what guarantees this liberty of the Church will be
assured.

" We will give it ample guraantees ; we will in-
scribe the principle of the reciprocal independence
of the Church and of the State in the fundamental
statute of the Kingdom, and we will ensure by all
possible means its complete realisation.
" But the surest guarantee is the thorough',"
Catholic character of the Italian people. Italy has
often made great efforts for the reform of ecclesias-
tical discipline; but she has never raised her hand
against the religion with which it is connected.
The country of Arnold of Brescia, of Dante, of
Savanarola, of Sarpi, of Giannone, has ever, like
them, sought only the reform of the Church ; that
ardent desire has always been aceompanied by the
firm determination that the Church, purified,
should subsist and become more free. That free;
dom will be better ensured by the love °I
26,000,000 of citizens than by a few mercenaries-
"lt is said—These hopes are fallacious ; al
your proposals and negotiations are repulsed.
I shall not enter into any detail upon this delicate
point. I admit that up to this time none of our
efforts have succeeded; but I also declare that
heretofore we have never explained our intentions
openly and fully, as we explain them now. We
may, therefore, still cherish some hope.
" History shows us that Rome, invaded by the
Spaniards of Charles V., saw the Pope some time
afterwards crown Charles V., and ally himself with
him. Why may we not see the same change
wrought upon Pius IX. at the present day ?
" But if the Pope should repulse us, as he has
hitherto done, we shall not cease to remain faithful
to the same principles. Arrived at Rome,
we shall
proclaim the separation of the Church from the
State, and the liberty of the Church. When this
has been done, and consecrated the representatives
of the nation, and when the veritable tendencies of
Italians and their sympathy for the religion of
their fathers have been made evident in the face of
Europe, the great majority of Catholics will ar
prove, and will cause to fall upon the right head
the responsibility of the struggle into which the
Court of Rome would have sought to enter with
the nation.
"At the risk of being deemed Utopian, I (wolf
my belief that when these principles have been
proclaimed and consecrated by you, the soul of
Pius IX., opening itself anew to the generous
sentiments which earned for him such hearty ap-
proval some years ago, will stimulate him to seek
to acquire the immortal glory of having reconciled
the Italian nation with the Church, and religion
with liberty."