The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-29 00:00:00

for the welfare and happiness of his people, and in all
respects a model sovereign. The noble lord who was so
ammiottit to' interfere unnecessarily in the cause of the
the Brazils 'could not but be aware that vessels were con-
tinually being fitted out from the ports of the -United
States to engage in the African slave trade, yet they
heard of no attempts on the part of the noble lord to pre.
vent it. (Hear.) It ought not to be forgotten that
the great extent of the Brazilian coasts interposed very
considerable difficulties to the entire suppression of the
trade by the Brazilian Government, however sincerely
desirous they might be (as he knew they were) to do so.
If we were unable to put down the trade in our own
colony of Sierra Leone—where it notoriously existed,
and where, according to Governor Kennedy, it was im-
possible to get a jury to convict persons charged with
being engaged in this traffic—how much more difficult
must it be for the Brazilian Government to protect their
3,000 miles of coast against it. He thought that if ever
there was a case that demanded an inquiry it was the
present, and he hoped, therefore, the house would con-
sent to the appointment of the committee.
Mr. M. MILNES admitted that the hon. and learned
member for Bath had made out a good case for the Go-
vernment of the Brazils, but not for the appointment of a
committee, the motion for which he thought went beyond
a mere inquiry, and indicated a policy. At the same time
he thought they ought to feel greatly indebted to the bon.
and learned member for having elicited the statement
which they had heard as to the pres oat policy of the Bra-
zilian Government on this question. The policy of the
noble lord for the abolition of tie slava trade had been
eminently successful, In 1847-48 a committee of that
house reported that it was vain to hope that the Brazilian
Government would be brought to act with good faith, or
that there would be any diminution of the slave trade in
so far as that country was country was concerned. At
that time the annual import of slaves into the Brazils was
between 50,000 and 60,000 ; is 1852 it was reduced to
between 700 and 800. (Cheers.) He thought it would
be well if some hon. gentleman would move for papers
to ascertain whether there had been any increase since,
which was probable, as the important events in which
this country bad been engaged during the last three or
four years might have in some degree lessened the vigi-
lance of our cruisers ; but to call upon Government to
relax its efforts, or to abandon any of the powers it pos-
sessed for the suppression of the trade, would be fatal.
The feeling of the Brazilians as to the slave trade was
not that rooted moral abhorrence with which it was re-
garded in this country, but rather an astute feeling of
policy and self-preservation. They knew very welt that
if any large increase in the number of the black popula-
tion took place, the lives and properties of the whites
would be in danger. Happily the slaves imported into
the Brazils were not of that tame submissive character
which marked the black population of the States. Their
policy was to keep down their slaves to that standard
which was necessary to supply the labour to cultivate
their estates. If apy great mortality took place among
the blacks, no doubt attempts would be made to make
up the deficiency by further imports from Africa, c ,nse-
quently it would be most unwise to abandon or relax
any of the powers possessed by our Government. Our
success in treating with the Brazils should rather induce
us to apply the same policy to other nations where the
slave trade was encouraged than abandon it in that case.
A committee woald be productive of no good result ; it
would afford no information of which the house was not
already in possession, and therefore he hoped the motion
would not be successful.
Mr. ROEBUCK regretted to find that a subject of
such importance exited so little attention. The noble
lord bad stated no sufficient ground against the appoint.
ment of the committee. He asked the house to insist on
an inquiry into a matter connected with our foreign re-
lations. He could well understand that the noble lord
would object to any such inquiry, and he could also well
understand that everything that fell from the noble lord
would be very interesting to the hon. member for Pon-
tefract. (hear, and a laugh.) What was the objection
to the motion ? It was that if the House of Commons
inquired it would give heart to those who were engaged
or interested in the slave trade. 'What was the meaning
of that, except that the house would come to a conclusion
that was beneficial to those persons ? That was not his
(Mr. Roebuck's) opinion. He believed that the House
of Commons would come to a right conclusion. He be-
lieved the house was as much the enemy of the slave
trade as the noble lord, but that it was feelingly alive to
the honour and dignity of England ; and be believed
that this inquiry, if set on foot by the house, would con-
duce to the honour and dignity of England. Why should
it not ! " Oh," said the noble lord, " the Government
of Brazil have been in former times great friends of the
slave trade." True; but self-interest had shown them
that the slave trade was dangerous to them ; and what
was more potent than self-interest ? "But, then," said
the noble lord, " there are people in the Brazils who aro
friends to the slave trade." Why, did the noble lord
believe that there were not people in England who were
friends to the slave trade ? Let him not lay the " flatter-
ing unction to his soul." There were those in England
—virtuous England--who would trade not only in the
bodies of the blacks, but in their own souls. The secret
encouragers of the slave trade were to be found within
the islands of Great Britain and Ireland. (Hear.) The
slave trade was carried on in spite of all our cruisers.
True it had been almost put down in Brazil ; but had it
been put down by the noble lord ? Not at all; but by the
good sense of the Brazilian government and the Brazilian
people. Our acts of parliament had not put down the slave
trade, but they had done this—they had sown dissension
between this country and the Brazils, and encouraged our
diplomatic body to insult the Brazilian Government. The
noble lord knew of Mr. Jerningham's letter. Suppose any
such letter had been written by any foreign minister to
the noble lord, he would have come down to the house,
talked largely of the outraged honour and dignity of Eng-
land, and called upon the country to avenge the insult.
Yet the noble lord denied that England was the bully to
the weak. Was it not true ? Where was the slave trade
most thriving now ! In Cuba. Why did the noble lord
not interfere to put it down there? Simply because he
dared not attempt it. The French Emperor would not
allow it. (Hear.) The noble lord talked of vulgar preju-
dice. But had the noble lord answered the charge he
had brought against him, of using the power of England
to aid and assist the strong and to bully the weak ! The
weak were the people of Brazils—the strong were the
people of Spain and the people of America. Would they
dare to send an English cruiser up the Chesapeake to
search American vessels ? Certainly not, for they knew
if they did so that America would be immediately up in
arms, and we should have the noble lord the British
Prime Minister begging pardon of the American repre-
sentative for daring to outrage the inviolability of her
flag. He warned the house against doing anything that
should induce the Brazils to throw themselves into the
arms of the United States, reminding them that the
States could take the produce of the Brazils and supply
her with manufactures on terms as favourable as we could
ourselves.
Mr. DISRAELI suggested that the motion of the hon.
and learned gent'eman was certainly a very strong one.
Had he moved for papers and confined himself to a reso-
lution for furnishing to the house farther information be-
fore calling upon them to express a decided opinion, he
(Mr. Disraeli) would not have taken the course which,
as it was, he felt compelled to take. But any motion to
take the management of the diplomatic relations of the
country out of the hands of the Government had always
been considered a motion implying want of confidence in
the Government. He had listened with great attention
to the hon. and learned gentleman, and had not under-
stood him to recommend his motion on the ground of auy
peculiar or particular case that had recently occurred, or
upon any complaint officially made by the Brazilian Go-
vernment. From the noble lord, on the other hand, he
understood that the act, of the operation of which the
hon. and learned gentleman complained, was at this mo-
ment, by mutual agreement between the tRO countries,
in suspense. Under these circumstances, knowing that
the act, the existence of which was the condition on
which they were asked to withdraw from the Foreign-
office its functions, and transfer them to a committee
of that house, was in suspense—and knowing also that,
if that was the case, it must be in consequence of previ-
ous discussions between the two governments—and if it
remained in suspense, be had a right to suppose that
negotiations would be renewed and that there was yet
some prospect of a satisfactory settlement—be, for one,
could not give his assent to a motion so strong in its
terms and character. lie agreed, nevertheless, that the
subject was one that ought to interest the house very
much, and that the house was much indebted to the
hon. and learned gentleman for bringing it forward.
Our relations with the Brazils', which were of the greatest
importance had been for some time iavolved iu an
amount of obscurity that was far from desirable. Redid
not know how many years it was since they had heard
of an impending treaty of commerce with the Brazils
that was to produce great advantage to both countries.
He had himself more than once the honour of bringing
the subject under the notice of the house, but never on
those occasions had heexperienced much encouragement
from those who were anxious to promote commercial ex
change, but had generally been met with the argument,
that commercial treaties were old-fashioned inventions,
°l)l3oed to the principles of political economy, and that
it was not therefore desirable to enter into them. No-
vr:ratthieless, it was admitted by all, that our commercialons with the Brazils were of great importance. Let
them took
at what had been the conduct of the Brazils
Since the treaty of commerce was Er .t mooted and
tiathought toTtereee probable result of our diplomatic nego-
tion.
could, be imagined, be no question that
all those statements
ents which they were in the habit of
hearing some time
alto the encouragement given to
the slave trade by Brazilian authorities and the Bra
zilian people, had now nolonger any fauodation, and he
agreed with the hoo.
and
learnedi
gentleman that it was
not to the interference of the British
teetish Government or the
activity of British cruisers
the policy of the Bra-
zilian government and the Brazilian people themselves,
that the slave trade had become
amuues; extinct. They
knew that for 20 years the policy
mended by the noble lord was vigorouslyarnestly recom-
pursued to put
down the slave trade in Brazil, and thatatte end of
that time the import of slaves into the Brazils] was ex-
actly the same as it was when the system first com-
menced ;20 years of the utmost energy on our part in
supporting the views of the noble lord produced no effect
whatever. What then bad produced the change but the
opinion of the Brazilian people and the c mviction of the
Brazilian community that the prosperity of their country
would behest secured by pursuing a policy directly at va-
riance with that which their predecessors had followed ;
and that by encouraging immigration of free labour, the
carrying out of agricultural ar d ,be prosecution of internal
improvements, they were doing that which was most con-
ducive to the wealth and power of the Brazilian empire.
But if this were true, is was clear that the time bad
come when the utmost spirit of conciliation and courtesy
should be shown by the English Government towards
the Brazils—that the time bad come when the noble lord I
might well consider whether this act, which had now
by mutual consent been suspended, should not be alto-
gether repealed— (cheers)—that the Brazilian Govern-
ment should be led to understand that the great improve-