The Sun.
London, England, 1861-08-20 00:00:00

FRANCE.

A letter in the Constitutionnel, dated Grand
Mourmelon, 18th inst., says :----
" The Piedmontese General Fanti has arrived at
I the camp, as also Nalim-Pasha, brother of the
Viceroy of Egypt. The Emperor attended to-day
the experiments with the rifled canon. The results
were most satisfactory. The firing commenced at
2,000 metres against pontoons representing a
battalion in line of battle. The butt was hit
every time with remarkable precision. The balls,
after traversing the butts, spun along from 400 to
500 metres before their force was expended. On
Sunday there will be a grand high mass and dis-
tribution of crosses.

General Fanti is accompanied by two officers of
the Italian army, and intends following the
manoeuvres. He is lodged at the Imperial head-
quarters. Prince and Princess Joachim Murat,
Princess Anna Murat, and Prince Achille are
staying at the camp.
There is a grand dinner this evening, to which
the Duke and Duchess of Magenta are invited.
BOURsE, August 19.—Business still continues
very limited in amount, but the little done has been
at a slight improvement on the closing rates of
Saturday. Threes, for the Account, aro now at
68f 50c. Railways quiet, but pretty firm.
The following are the last quotations :-
4i per per Cents 97 80; Credit 1, oncier l3OO
Do end month.... 97 90 ; Belgian 41 —
3 per Cents
Do. end month 6B 521/ Roman ..........
Bank Shares 2890 -- I Austrian
......
Credit Mobilier 737 50 ; Spanish Threes.... 481 Do. Account 742 50
,'Rome Debt ...... 47k

A thickly-attended meeting was held at Leeds, a
k'ew days ago, to consider the question of the Danish
treaty of 1852, on the succession to the crown of
Denmark, and also the desirability of some course
being adopted to prevent the frequent "count-outs"
in the House of Commons. Mr. David Urquhart
was present, and Lord Robert Montagu was also
`expected to take part in the proceedings. The
noble lord, however, sent an apology, and a long
explanation of his views upon the above subjects.
Speaking of " count-outs" Lord Robert said :
" A count-out' does not ' overtake a dull and
stupid speech.' I have heard many such speeches,
when no one dreamt of counting the house. I have
always seen the house nearly empty when the fate
of millions of our Indian fellow-subjects has been
discussed ; but no one tried to count out the house.
I have seen the benches deserted while millions
sterling of English people's money were being voted
away; but if anyone had moved that the house be
counted,' he would have been deemed no better than
a fool or a madman. A ' count-out' is always pre-
concerted and arranged between the leaders on each
side of the house. It is attempted only when a
subject which is inconvenient to Government either
has been broached or is about to come on. It takes
place when a case has been made out which cannot
be satisfactorily answered, or when there is on the
paper for subsequent discussion a notice of motion
which is likely to bring awkward facts to light.
Sometimes a ' count-out' is resorted to when, in an
impending division, to vote one way would be a
scandal, and would give just offence to constituents ;
and to vote the other way would imply a censure
on their accomplices, or would commit the Govern-
ment to a course which would militate against their
schemes. A count-out,' in fact, is quite in accord-
ance with a tendency that has predominated in
modern legislation—it carries out the determina-
tion to conceal things from the nation, and even to
take the supervision and control of affairs oat of
the hands of Parliament itself. The Cabinet have
thus virtually constituted themselves the rulers of
the empire. Their deeds are kept secret from the
people ; and even concealed and shrouded from the
inquiring gaze of Parliament. The Queen herself is
generally shut out from the secret deliberations of
the Cabinet; and despatches have been written in
her name without her sanction. The Cabinet feel
that they rule the empire, and do not blush to
affirm it when they say, ' We sent the army there ;'
We -made such an arrangement with that foreign
despot;' We propose to take such and such a
course.' The Queen is nothing now in her own
kingdom. Similarly the people talk of the Go•
vernment of Lord John Russell,' 'the Government
of Lnrd Palmerston.' But no one thinks of the
Government of the Queen. When any one gets
impatient under this tyranny of a cabal, and wishes
to return to the ancient order of things, and pay, to
the best Sovereign who ever adorned the throne of
England, the honest allegiance which they owe—
then the cabal to the right of the Speaker agrees
with the ex-cabal on the other side to smother these
endeavours by a count-out. It is thus that the coun-
try is crucified between two thieves. Then again
the effect of these ' counts' is to accumulate a great
mass of business for the end of the session. Every
one then is fatigued and ill, from doing a lot of
work which should never have been put upon them ;
the accumulation of business is hurried through in
the most unseemly manner ; and no one challenges
any misdeed or extravagance. Thus the same inde-
pendence of Parliamentary supervision, the same
immunity from scrutiny is secured by the press of
business at the end of the session as by the counts-
out' at the beginning."
Mr. E. Baines, M.P., also sent a letter, in which,
after alluding to the Danish succession question, he
thus speaks of the practice of counting out the
house :—" The practice of ' counting out' the house
is resorted to either when a very dry subject or one
that is particularly unpalatable to some one section
of the house is under discussion. The time gene-
rally chosenis when the greater part of the
members are at dinner, that is between seven
and nine o'clock, at which part of the
evening the attendance is always thin.
There is also especial liability to count-
out on the night following a very prolonged and
exciting debate, but it is considered a clever thing
and a good joke thus to burke a troublesome dis-
cussion. Sometimes one side of the house suffers
from the practice, and sometimes the other side.
Lord Robert Montagu was stopped on the occasion
to which I have referred ; bnt the most audacious
case of the kind that I have known was earlier in
the last session, when a liberal member was speak-
ing, and several conservative members stood at the
door of the house, after the Speaker had been re-
quested to ' count,' and whilst the warning bell
was ringing, and blocked up the way, so that mem-
bers desirous to get into the house had almost to
fight their way through, and Mr. Baxter had his
hat smashed. On the night of the Danish discus-
sion Lord Robert Montagu was deserted by his own
side of the house, not more than ten or a dozen
members of that side being present when the 'count'
was called for, and not one on the front opposition
bench; whilst Lord Palmerston and Lord John
Russell were both in their places. If you can do
anything to promote a better attendance of mem-
bers, especially during the discussion of the esti-
mates, you will render a public service. But I
doubt the expediency of prohibiting a count-out'
when the attendance is so thin as to make the pro-
ceeding with business a mockery. There must, I
conceive, be Pomo limit below which the house
should be prevented by its own rules from proceed.
ing to any important division. Nor can you confine
members to the house. They must dine ; and
many members who are attending on committees
from twelve at noon to four, and in the house from
four to seven, go about that time to dinner ; and
return about nine or ten to stay till the house rises,
menrises,
perhaps at one or two in the morning. These
cannot be blamed. The blame belongs to these
who neither attend committees nor the house, ex-
cept on great party battles orothce?rnsteixtuceitnienyg
‘
occasions. I see no remedy for counts-out' and
scanty attendances, except in every
looking after its own members, and
, giving them a
hilt when they neglect their duty. Mr. Urquhart
and his friends then agreed to resolutions de-
claring it to be the duty of members of Parliament
to stick more closely to their work, and asserting
that it is "improper to interfere with the ancient
country people,
Government."
attempt being made by ifs
laws of successiondtuotythoef Cthreownopfleaoffortehiigsn
and that it is thesuch people
to resist any