The Sun.
London, England, 1857-11-06 00:00:00

METROPOLITAN BOARD OP WORKS.

the Legislature necessary for the metropolis. Tha
declaration on the part of the First Commissioner,
if carried out, would relieve the Board from many
difficulties in regard to the outfall. The Board was
quite willing that the outfall should be extended
to Sea Reach. He was prepared to admit that the
point fixed upon by the Board was not so good as
that indicated by the referees. He considered that
their reasons were sufficient and conclusive. The
Board was quite willing, therefore, to extend the
outfall to Sea Reach, provided that the ratepayers
of the metropolis should not he required to pay the
expenses of that extension, but that those expenses
should be provided for out of the national fund, as
suggested by the First Commissioner at the con-
ference on the 20th of November last year.
Sir B. HALL—I did not say the expenses should
be defrayed out of the national fund.
Mr. THWAITES—WeII, I am careless as to the
fund out of which the money come 4, so that the
ratepayers are not bardened with the charge.
Sir B. HALL—I never said anything as to the
manner in which the money was to be raised, either
directly or indirectly.
Mr. THWAITES—I understood that the addi-
tional expense should be provided for out of the
national resources.
Sir B. HALL. —I wish you distinctly to under-
stand that I never had a glimmer of such an idea
in my imagination, or that I said anything that
could possibsy lead any person to such a conclusion.
I never in the slightest degree, directly or in-
directly, indicated that the Government would
advance a penny, or that Parliament would sanc-
tion any advance.
Mr. TICWAITES said it was not at all necessary for
Iris purpose to dispute the question. The cost for
extendingthe outfall from B* to Sea Reach was esti-
mated at 1,500,0001. It would hardly be just to
impose a tax upon the ratepayers of the metro-
polis to pay that additional charge. The referees
had considered what districts ought to be taxed in
aid of the ratepayers of the metropolis, and from
the data given by these gentlemen he found that
the districts, including persons residing 10 miles
from the sowers, would have to contribute 3 per
cant. of 150,0001. towards the additional outlay of
1,500,0001. Would so insignificant a contribution
be an equivalent for the extension of the outfall ?
He thought the referees would on reflection agree
with him that it would be better for the Board at

once to present those districts with the 150,0001:,
and permit them to carry out a sealed sewer of their
own, instead of accepting so inadequate a contribu-
tion. After all, the whole matter turned entirely
upon a question of finance. It had been asked, why
were the metropolitan representatives so tenacious
on the matter of taxation as not to be prepared to
take the sewage down to a point of outfall which
it was desirable should be adopted ? It must be
remembered that when the Board of Works was
formed, the funds for carrying out the drainage of
the metropolis were exhausted, and Parliament had
come to a decision that no further grants should be
made for Parliamentary improvements, but that
the metropolis must take care of itself. The Board
was galled into existence to face an immense debt
which was left to them as a legacy by their prede-
cessors. As a municipal body they were denied
every power which a merely provincial corporation
possessed for the iraprovenieut of their town. Li-
verpool was a case quite analogous to that of the
metropolis. The corporation of Liverpool had con-
structed magnificent docks and had made other im-
provements, not by possessing the power of direct
taxation, but by an indirect mode of taxation—
namely, by the levying of dues upon the shipping
passing and entering that port, and by other means.
But in London there were no such resources. Al-
though they had omnibuses and cabs tearing up
their streets any tax imposed upon those ve-
hicles found its way into the public exchequer,
and not into the hands of the Metropolitan
Board of Works. If there were coal dues, they were
absorbed by carrying out improvements in an area
consisting of one square mile, and were not extended
to improvements in an area of 117 square miles.
Many other towns and cities had the means of tax-
ing themselves or possessed property from which
they derived a refenue applicable to local improve-
ments. The members of the Metropolitan Board of
Works not having these means were not disposed to
plunge altogether into any expensive undertakings
unless they saw that a valuable consideration would
be derived from them for the ratepayers of the me-
tropolis. He repeat-d, therefore, that if Sir B.
Hall was of opinion that the outfalls should not be
at B*, but should be extended to Sea Reach, the
Board were ready to carry out that plan provided
the funds were forthcoming. But from what source
they were to come he would leave it for the right
hon. baronet to explain. The Board had a right to
ask that they might be supplied with the means for
carrying out these improvements. They were unable
to make bricks without straw. It was idly for the
public or for Sir B. Hall to expect the Board to
carry out these works while funds were withheld
from them. For the considerations he had thus laid

before him he hoped the right hon. gzntleman
would not requ'ro an ort,tuaion of 010 area laid down
by Parliament, and would not sanction any scheme
which did not confine its,df to the met ropoli ta .1 area.
In reference to open channels he ventured to say
that S:r B. Hall would scarcely endorse the con-
struction of works which upon the very face of them
it must be obvious would be most injurious to the
public health ; and, lastly, as to the extension of
the ontfall., that was a question he left with con-
fidence in the hands of Sir Benjamin ; and begged
in conclusion to say that every member of the
Metropolitan Board felt an anxiety for the
speedy settlement of this important question ;
and he hoped that by means of this conference
it would ba so relieved from the difficulties with
which it had hitherto been beset, and would be
brought into such a shape by the friendly con-
ference of the engineers, as to determine what the
area should be, and whether the points of discharge
should be at B* or Sea Reach. These were engineer-
ing points on which he had no doubt the referees
and the engineer of the Board would come to a satis.
factory conclusion. We come to you (said Mr.
Thwaites) in the best spirit, and we feel the utmost
confidence that you are disposed to meet us in the
same spirit, and that you are as anxious as we are
to bring this most important matter to a close ; and
I trust that means will be placed at our disposal by
which we may be enabled to carry out this gigantic
work to a satisfactory conclusion.
Sir B. BALL—I quite agree with you that it
would be et slrable that this matter, which has been
under consideration for so long a period of time,
should be settled and brought to a close as soon as
possible. But after the obs 'rvations yen have made
it may be convenient that I should state what has
taken place. On the 23d Dec. I received your plan,
and on the 31st of that month, notwithstanding the
holydeys, I placed the plan in the hands of the re-
ferees. On the 31st July they made their report, a
copy of which I transmitted to you on the same
day. Therefore, as far as this department is con-
cerned, not one day has been lost in the considera-
tion of this important m otter. I how. and believe
that the conference this day will lead to a satisfac-
tory conclusion. I will now refer to the three objec-
tions to the plan of the referees to which you have
called my attention. You say that the rnetrop litati
area comprises 117 square miles ; but that the re-
ferees, with a view to the main drainage, have com-
prised within their area not less than 354 square
miles ; and you say that this involves an increased
size of sewers three or four times grea,L'r than is
necessary if the main drainage be confined to the
metropolitan area. My object when I proposed the
Act of Parliament was the purification of the river
Thames by cleansing it from all the impuri-
ties that may from any source run into the
river within the metropolitan area, and I con-
sider that it is your duty to carry out that
provision of the Act. I don't wish you to do
more. But then you may say that the referees
haveincluded a larger number of square miles
in their plan than is proposed by yours. Si they
have, and why The reason is that a great deal of
drainage comes down from fa--off districts into the
Thames, which is within your area. Now, I think
it is the duty of your Board to intercept all impu-
riti s that flaw into the Thames within the area of
the district under your control and supervision. But
as this may be a matter for the referees to consider,
I think you would do well to appointeonueinoe
rert,wtoo
members of your Board, with your g
coo for with the referees.

Mr. TifwAlTEs--If I understand you correctly,
you require us to interept the drainage coming from
places beyond thg niAropolitan district.

it B. HALL—This is a very important point,
and I should be sorry that any mi.understanding
should arise respecting it. Take, for instance, any
stream, call it stream A. that falls into the Thames
within the metropolitan area, I conceive that if
there is any impurity in that stream which renders
the Thames pestilential within the metropolitan
area, such impurities ought to belotercepted.
Mr. THWAITES—Theu all contributory streams
to the Thames must be intercepted, for there is
scarcely any stream which, stric•ly speaking, can
be said to be free from impurity. But in m
na es you Ya would have no tid Al stream at all, and the
ion of the river would be des'royad, as it
would be loft without water. Whit the Bard are
required to do is to
t 0 remove any impurities that are
created within the metropolitan boundary, and in-
tercept any
within that area.
A.ft3r this point hal been fully discussed,
Sir B. HALL observed thatitwai more a matter
for the considerat:ou of the engineersi than for him
to enter upon, and r?peated that his and
the intention of the Legi9lature w
Thames should be cleansed from all impurities ie that the
flowed into it within the metropolitan arreiat,asntidlat
would be the duty of the Board to provide it
means