The Sun.
London, England, 1859-02-19 00:00:00

THE INDIAN LOAN.

Mr. ROBERTSON asked the Secretary of State for
India whether, in the event of a loan being authorised to be
raised in this country, any authority that might have been
given to Lord Canning to raise money by, loan or deben-
tures, at six per cent. per annum, would be at once can-
celled ; and whether the Five per Cent Loan, now opened
in Calcutta, would be closed ?
Lord STANLEY said that he would postpone his reply
to the question until the house went into committee on the
Indian Loan, when he would make a statement on the
subject.
RECRUITING IN THE ARMY.

Captain VIVIAN asked the Secretary for War whether
it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to appoint
a committee or royal commission to inquire into the whole
system of recruiting in the army?
General PEEL said it was the intention of the Govern-
ment, with her Majesty's concurrence, to appoint a royal
commission on the subject.
ENDOWED SCHOOLS IN IRELAND. _

Sergeant DEASY asked the Chief Secretary for Ire-
land whether it was the intention of the Government to in-
troduce any measure on this subject, and if so, at what time
he would be prepared to introduce the measure ?
Lord NAAS said Government intended to introduce such
a measure, but he could not state the day when it would be
brought forward.
THE DANUBIAN PROVINCES—THE ARMY

side and light and airy inside. (Laughter.) They
had not a large amount of sun in this climate,
and these buildings should be so constructed as
to admit all the light from the exterior, and refle,:t all the
light in the interior. (Renewed laughter.)

THE ACCOUNTS AND STORES AT WEEDON.
Mr. J. A. TURNER wished to state the reasons why the
Royal Commissioners appointed to inquire into the state of
the books and stores at Weedon, Woolwich, •ti d the Tower,
had not yet sent in their report. It was much t o be regretted
that Mr. Selfo had been prevented by illness from attending,
but that circumstance alone would not have prevented the
presentation of the report ; there were other circumstances
which prevented it. They had found the books at Weedon
in hopeless confusion, no day-books had been kept, no store-
ledgers had been entered up, and the only vouchers were a
number of loose documents, which were most unsatisfactory,
and out of place. Commissary-General Adams was there
with eight commissaries, and 20 clerks, to unravel these
matters. The commissioners, however, after their return,
suggested to the War-office that as they must insist on
their own accountant, Mr. Jay, of the firm of Quilter and
Ball, going through these accounts for their satisfaction, it
would be a saving of expense to allow them, instead of Com-
missary-General Adams, to complete the investigation.
This was acceded to, and the accounts and books had since
been in the hands of Mr. Jay and his assistants. A letter
from Mr. Jay, written on the 9th inst., informed them that
he did not think it possible to bring the investigation to a
conclusion in less than two or three months. There were
also three other accounts the commissioners wanted to have
rendered. At the Tower they found that the store-ledger
had been balanced in Oct., 1857, and at the same period an
account of the stock in hand at the Tower was taken—a
very laborious operation, since there were 13,000 to 15,000
different articles in store there. The.commissioners had
thought it their duty to have the state of the ledgers, as
balanced by the clerks at the Tower when that operation
was last performed before, compared with the actual sur-
vey or counting of the articles, performed by persons
whom they sent down for the purpose. They had applied
to the War office for the comparative account, and that
day, since he put this notice on the paper, he had got
a communication from the War office, stating that the
store-ledger to October, 1857, had now been examined,
and on a comparison of what then remained as the
balance with the balance which remained in 1858, differ-
ences were found to exist in the quantity of various stores,
some showing a surplus and some a deficiency ; these would
have to be ascertained and balanced. The commissioners
had asked for another account from the Tower, a complete
list of all the stores called obsolete. They had found still
existing there 50,000 old flint muskets' and a vast quantity
of other articles which never would be put to any beneficial
use, and ought to be disposed of for what they would fetch.
The commissioners had requested that a complete list of
those articles should be sent them, and they wanted a simi-
lar account from Woolwich. When these accounts were
rendered, and Mr. Jay had finished his task, they would
endeavour to send in their report.
Colonel BOLDERO said the country was greatly in-
debted to the hon. member for Manchester for the indefati-
gable industry, ability, and business knowledge, which he
had brought to this investigation, which had occupied him
during the recess. He wished to know how many clerks
Mr. Jay had at Weedon, and what they cost, to do the work
for which the War-office employed a commissary-general,
eight commissioners, and twenty clerks. He thought the
commissioners might iiresent their report without waiting
for these statistics, which could form the contents of an ap-
pendix.
General PEEL said he was quite as anxious for the pro-
duction of this report as the hon. member himself could be,
and had done all he could to facilitate it. With regard to
the Weedon accounts, he had at once acceded to, the sug-
gestion of the commissioners, that their own accountant
could go through those accounts more speedily than the
commissary-general, and put an end to that expense. There
had been a delay at the Tower, from the illness of the store-
keeper, but the work should be proceeded with as fast as
possible.
THE CAPTURE OF THE CHARLES ET GEORGES.

Mr. KINGLAKE asked the -Under - Secretary for
Foreign Affairs when the papers relating to the capture and
restoration of the Charles et Georges would be laid on the
table ? Statements, he said, had gone forth to Europe not
promulgated in newspapers or pamphlets, but in the official
documents laid before the Cortes by the Sovereign of Porta-
gal—statements which impugned the credit of England,and
which imputed to the British representative at Lisbon that
he, in consequence of the instructions conveyed in a tele-
graphic despatch from Lord Malmesbury, signed a document
involving a most painful surrender of all that England
ought to think herself justified in contending for. When
Parliament met the right hon. gentleman said that the
papers would be laid before the house, with the full convic-
tion that the British Government had faithfully performed
its duty, and that terms had been obtained for Portugal
which would have been satisfactory to all Europe—that the
conduct of England towards Portugal had been such as it
ought to be towards an ancient ally. Now, the charge
against the Government being so grave, and the right hon.
gentleman thinking the defence so complete and triumphant,
one would have expected that Ministers would not have lost
an hour in laying that defence before Parliament. These

transactions terminated in October last year. During the
last fortnight the house had not been so much occupied
with other business but that a discussion on this matter
might have conveniently taken place ; but the effect of the
non-production of these papers was, that all discussion was
warded off until after the house should be pledged to the
debates on the Reform Bill. When he asked a question
about it the other day he was told that these papers were
" in a state of preparation ;" and he did not like that term,
for it gave the impression that they were undergoing some
culinary process. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.)
Mr. S. FITZGERALD said he would now reply to the
four several questions which had been addressed to him by
different hon. gentlemen. One of those hon. members (Mr.
Wise) was in error in thinking that Mr. H. Vyse had been ap-
pointed consul at Jeddo ; it was only vice-consul, and as such
he would be in a strictly subordinate position, under an expe-
rienced chief. The question asked would rather imply that
the appointments in China had not been properly distributed.
The fact was that in no instance had greater care ever been
taken with such appointments. Out of thirteen appoint-
ments in China and Japan that were rendered necessary by
the new arrangements, amounting altogether to upwards of
£14,000 a year, twelve had been entirely made in the way
of promotion of those who had heretofore distinguished
themselves in the public service. (Cheers.) There was no
recommendation of the consular committee that made it ob-
jectionable to appoint a very intelligent gentleman to the
subordinate post intended for Mr. Howard Vyse. In reply
to the hon. member for Dartmouth, he was sure it would be
believed that it was by no discourtesy on his own part, but
by some accident or inadvertence of others, that the omission
occurred in the papers of the matter to which his attention
was directed. The hon. member asked whether her Ma-
jesty's Government had received any reply from the Peru-
vian Government to the communication made by Lord
Malmesbury some months age. Her Majesty's Government
had received no reply. In the last communication they had
received from Peru it was mentioned that a proposition to
throw open the trade in guano in the Chincha Islands had
been made to the Peruvian Government, and had been re-
ceived with some favour, but they had no other information.
He agreed that to obtain an abandonment of the monopoly
was most important to British agriculture, but her Majesty's
Government could do nothing more than to make represen-
tions on the subject; this had been done, and he hoped
the renewed efforts would have a more favourable result.
The question asked by another hon. member (Mr. Hutt)
was as to a letter written by Lord Malmesbury in answer
to a memorial from the Chamber of Commerce at Greenock.
Ho did not mean to enter into any discussion of the navi-
gation laws, or the distress of the shipping interest, but
the hon. gentleman must have been very hard up for
a grievance when he brought forward this. In the man-
ner in which he had dealt with that letter there was much
ingenuity, but not much fairness nor justice. The hon.
gentleman asked tho house to look at a few detached
words, and pass a condemnation on the noble lord's letter.
Under what circumstances was that letter written ? A
memorial was addressed by the Chamber of Commerce at
Greenock with reference to the differential duties, requesting
that some measure should be devised for extricating the
shipowners from their unfortunate position, and obtaining
reciprocal concessions. The noble lord, in his reply, stated
that at the time of the repeal of the navigation laws many
opinions were expressed that Parliament was going too far,
and that we should give up everything and receive nothing
in return. The question was whether the apprehensions
then expressed had been justified or not. It had been said
that'France and Spain had refused to reciprocate. But he
would ask the hon. gentleman if he had heard no complaints
as to the coasting trade of the United States? Had he never
heard British shipowners complain that they could not sail
from New York to San Francisco without being told that
they were engaged in the coasting trade ? (Hear.) The
noble lord in his letter had done nothing more than recite an
historical fact in stating that the apprehensions with respect
to the reciprocity with foreign natioxs had been fully justi-
fied. The hon. gentleman had conjured up a design on the
part of the noble lord or the Government to raise an agita-
tion with a view to the re-enactment of the navigation laws;
but he thought no hon. member could imagine that any such
idea was entertained. (Hear.) The only other question
which he had to answer related to the Charles et Georges.
He did not know by whom the accusations referred to had
been made, but if there were any persons who were likely to
say the honour of the country was neglected, it was not so
much the newspapers as the opponents of the Government
opposite, whose wish was probably father to the thought.
(Hear.) He was now in a position to promise that the papers
relating to this matter should be laid on the table on Mon-
day or Tuesday rest, and as they would be presented in a
printed shape, there would be ample time for the discussion
of the subject before the Reform Bill was brought forward.
The motion for adjournment was then agreed to.
CHURCH RATES.

LOrd J: RUSSELL inquired what business the Govern-
ment intended to proceed with on Monday
Arr. WALPOLE replied that it was his intention, after
disposing'of the India Loan Bill, to propose on Monday
that the orders of the day be postponed for the purpose of
bring,ing forward the church rate question.

EAST INDIA LOAN.
07.-t—iiil rise to move that
Lord STANLthe house resolve
into committee s subject, and I may possibly save
time by offering „me .
explanations respecting the discre •
pancy between the statement made by me the other night
tlB5-7 at £33,303,000, and
s
Parliamentary accounts. I stated
the gross revenues of India for
partfoofr that year
that difference is due to put it at
£29,702,000. ' The greater
the cause I mentioned at the time, namely, the difference
tI
in computing the exchange of the
rupee
ahen accounts the v
at 2s. sterling, whereas in the Parliamentary took the rupee
n;
rupee is taken at ls. 10Id. I believe the
about Is. 100., but the exchange value at the bullion i
ttimes
has even exceeded 2s. I think that in 1831 thepSrie
was assumed at 25., which gave a value to the Coeemap_ w
Company's
rupee
rupee of Is. 101 d. ; but I believe that the value I took was
near to the actual value of the exchange at the present
time. This difference of value accounts for a discrepaney
to the amount of £2,081,462. Another cause of discrepancy,
which at the time I was not aware of, is that in the Parlia-
mentary accounts a considerable number of charges on the
one hand and receipts on the other are not included, having
been considered not properly as forming part of revenue.
The receipts deducted from charges in, the. Parliamentary
accounts, instead of being credited as revenue, amount to
£1,519,075, making the total discrepancy £3,600,537. As
regards the balance between income and expenditure, it is
obvious that no difference exists. A question may arise,
whether some of those items which appear in the account
ought to appear in it at all. I think that they ought, and
I propose, after a mature consideration of the subject, that
Parliamentary accounts shall contain every item re-
ceived and expended. The difference in receipts deducted
cocreuidited as revenue, in
evenue,
from charges
isParliamentary£l,sl9,o7s,acc
instead
tediaftreanbceeingin
Plltiug the exchange beittg 4081,462, the aggregatO