The Sun.
London, England, 1857-06-12 00:00:00

Shire dared not encounter the power of the
duchy. Even if they succeeded, they got'no costs.
He called the serious attention of the Government to
this subject, and hoped the right hon. gentlemati would
at some time or other grant the committee which was
asked.

Mr. BAINES thanked the hon. member for Stafford
for giving him notice of his question, as the matter re-
ferred too occurred before he (Mr. Baines) entered office,
and he had been thus enabled to make inquiries Ha
quite agreed with the hon, member for Stafford that it
was his duty t) make the revenue of the duchy profitable
to her Majesty, and which he intended to do. But all
improvement will be but gradual. There were outside
leases and arrangements of many kinds. When he had
the opportunity of making better arrangements, he
should earnestly avail himself of them. This was an
object he should keep always before him. His hon.
friend had not made the position of the duchy perfectly
clear. It originated in the time of Edward 111., and in
that time the revenue had been under a different guid-
ance and government from the other property of the
Crown. When at ihe accession of her present Majesty
the civil list was settled the Crown revenues were
given up, except those of the duchies of Lancaster and
Cornwall, which remained under a separate guidance.
It was then provided by Aet of Parliament that the an-
fluid accounts of the duchy should be made out in such a
way as the Treasury should decree, and presented to
Parliament. Since that time great improvements had
eeen introduced into the duchy. He would mention a
few of them. The hon. member for Stafford had alluded
to the old system of 1 ,cal receivers. At present only
one of those local receivers was left—there were collect-
ors, but no local receivers, and by that arrangement
therr was a saving of 1,2001. a.year on that head alone.
There was another point. The hon. member had ad-
verted to the sa'aries which were paid, but since the
passing of the act an important alteration bad taken
place, whereby the officers were paid part in salariee and
part in fees. The salaries were now fixed, and an im-
p otent saving had been made in consequence. A very
great improvement had been introduced into the
management of the duchy since the year 1847. The
comeitesioners then appointed rescinded the abolition of
the system of fines on renewals of Lases, and this sug-
gestion had been kept steadily in view by those charged
with the control of the property. About two years since
an act was passed, empowering the Chancellor of the
Duchy to sell outlying properties, and purchase others
with the proceeds, for the purpose of consolidating the
property, and this would tend greatly to reduce the ex•
pense of management. It was said by the hon. member
that her Maj •sty derived very little revenue from the
duchy. This, however, was not the case. The average
return paid clear into the privy puree of her Majesty
luring the last nineteen years was 13,0001. a year ; but
the amount during the last year was 20,0001., and there
was every probability that it would go on progressively
increasing, as the incumbrances, burdens, and patent
offices were removed. The honourable and learned
member said that with respect to the injury alleged
to h-me been sustained by some copyholders in
Derbyshire by carrying on mining operations, that
had been a subject in dispute in various law
courts for several years. He trusted that the house
would agree with him in the opinion that several im•
provements bad been effected in the management of the
property of the duchy. He had no opposition to offer
to the motion of the hon. member. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. RICARDO complained of the very unsatisfactory
explanation made by the right hon. member, and he
thought that the house was much indebted to the hon.
member for Stafford for bringing the subject tinder the
notice of the house. The case of the people of Hanley
and Skeddington, and the inhabitants of the Potteries,
was one of great hardship ; their lives and property
were plaeed in great jeopardy by the conduct of tl e
Crown in permitting mining operations to be carried on,
which were attended with so much danger to the public,
for the paltry rent of about 2,0001. He bad for the last
seventeen years been in communication with the Duchy
of Lancaster on the subject, but had never been able to
obtain any satisfactory result.
Mr. BASS said that there could be no doubt that the
property of the Duchy of Lancaster was in a most die-
creditable state, and called for great improvements in the
management. Among other conditions upon which be
held some property under the Crown, was one that be
should supply for her Majesty's private table, four
pheasants, 80 partridges, and 18 hares. (A. laugh.)
Owing, however, to the extent to which poaching was
carried on, he was perfectly unable to supply the de-
mand. After some refutation and moch squabbling on
the subject., a purveyor was appointed, and the requisite
game ewe supplied ; and each year he (Mr. Bass) was
furnished with the list of the amount of game supplied,
which he paid he could hardly say with how much satis-
faction. (A laugh.) This was a matter which well de-
served the attention of the able administrators of the
duchy, as illustrating a system more suitable to the
the times of the Henries than the reign of her Majesty.
The motion was then agreed to.
GOVERNMENT OF BENGAL.
Sir E. PERRY presented a petition from Calcutta,
praying Lir the amalgamation of the Queen's and the
Company's courts of law.
Mr. KINN.AIRD rose to move resolutions stating
that from representations made to the house there was
reason to believe that the present administration of the
lower provinces of Bengal did not secure to the inhabit.
ants good government, but that the mass of the people
suffered grievious oppression from the police, and that
in the opinion of the house the Government were boun
to ascertain the truth of these statements, and if they
were true to redress the same. The representations be
said were contained in the petition of the missionaries in
the district, who stated what they had thernmeives wit-
neseed. They had memorialised the Lieutenant-Governor
of Bengal on the subject, but being refused redress there
they now appealed to Parliament. It might be said these
missionaries ought to have confined themselves to preach-
ing the gospel, but he would remind the house that
though they were missionaries, they did not cease to be
English gentlemen ; and it was not to be expected that
they could witness oppression, cruelty, and wrong, and
yet remain silent. He then proceeded to state, from the
petitions of the missionaries, fortified as it was by the
admissions of Mr. Halliday, the Lieutenant• Governor,
and other officials, of the cruelty with which the ryot, or
native cultivator of the soil, was treated by the emir.
dar, or great landowner, of the tortures which these
zemindars practised, and in which they were abetted by
the native police, who were themselves notorious for
murder, robbery, and theft, and were practically without
any superintendence, for the English collector, lived from
40 to 60 miles away, in a country without roads, and
where the maeistrates were perpetually changing. He
therefore prayed for an inquiry, which would at least
clear up the mystery banging over these charges, and if
they were true, would at least pave the way to a remedy.
An Hero MEMBER here moved that the house be
counted, but by dint of whipping up a few members, a
house wan made.
Mr. DUNLOP, in seconding the motion, expressed
his indignation at the indifference with which the house
treated this question, so intimately affecting the happi-
ness of India.
Mr. V. SMITH complained of the vague nature of Mr.
Kinnaird's motion. The evils complained of were well
known, and he objected to the motion because it would
discover nothing that was not already known. This
was not a motion for a commission to inquire into spe-
cific abuses, it was a commission to inquire into the
whole framework and administration of the Government,
superseding the functions of the governor himself.
Many of them were in the course of remedy. For in.
stance, Mr. Kinnaird complained of the conduct of the
police in India. Well, that was admitted by a despatch
from the Court of Directors, lamenting the evil, and
directing a resorganieation of the whole system of police.
What could his hon. friend have more than that !
Mr. KINNAIR,D—There is nothing done.
Mr. SMlTH—Nothing Crone ! Why the despatch was
only issued in September last—and did he expect that
the whole system could be re-organised in three months!
If his hon. friend fancied that reforms proceeded with
more rapidity in India than in Englandhe
twhaesuluch
mistaken. There was also a bill now before
Legis-
lative Council in India to regulate the relations between
the zeeaindar and the ryot. Could a commission do
miessioner(sbreiefsound
mI
ilutureu!st
bAenrdemwehmerbeerceodultdbatlr
whiletehoni
e
th
indigo planters
andined w t
o wanted a
refuse
plained of the
Ge
e rn
laoireadisosfiotehee[gcaoindeoutvetetheorefm.ethn the me iws sai
so ndaertiee
rem,
both. The Government were making inquiries for
were acting upon the information they
received.hthaedmselves'and
With regard to the administration of
justice the Legislative Council of India were at this
moment discuss ing bills to carry into effect certain im•
portant law ret'orms, and among others the celebrated
penal code of M:r. Macaulay. Having ahewn them that
the Government. were not inattentive to these reforms
he must oppose this motion, because he did not wish
to spread abroad the delusion that the Government
were about tn. revolutionise the present system in
India. Nor w Duld he wish to have it go forth to
India that Chri itian missionaries were to interfere in the
affairs of Gover n went. The house had already beard of
the mutinous disposition manifested in some native re-
giments, which took its rist in the notion that we were
about to adopt a. compulsory system of conversion. Be.
sides all this, he. .felt, in the words of Mr. Halliday, that
the time for inquiay was past ; the time for action bad
come, A. commi scion would delay and obstruct rather
than promote refc 'rm. He trusted ICinlilatird r woold
see the reasonah lenese of this, and wou h ore,
withdraw his motl 'on.
Sir E. PERK. was a
which he thought would dol"m°oPrPe°ll9aerdmtothaancgomoomdi."Biount
of in the resclution
w from the most oppesite quarters
he reminded the k ous ee
rtah that
it the smoictitaeld evils
dproved complainedb
ace
accordance with a notice he had on.
for these evils would be
overwhelming
He contended, in
etahpaptoiften'rernetuloefdfiYt and legally.trained judges.
snots done at present, and he quo-
ftTt:e:hudeinpdarnerth
of mere boys,.fresh from Hai-
to administer justice, and one
ybstuohreyth,ceohnehtioreugnsdee.el)nputwsoitieaanizit
case where a g ices
being found disqualified for
every d
other situation, n as at last made a circuit judge.
,L RUSSELL N 7as glad that this discussion had
not been stopped by cou, sting out the house. It would,
indeed, have been a great, t_ misfortune if Mr. Kinnaird's
able statement had gene i-orth to the country, with that
addition, that the house w, tis so indifferent totdbee_ owtrodne
of India, that 40 members° ould not be persuaded
agreed with
rsuad
cuss the question. On the fa lain question
Mr. V. Smith that an inqt 14 w
1 s not the proper re.
Nor could
_lOl implied
he
ageYrdee now
th—t bblart. it
bans a forcatf.on.
resolution,
1
4 that we did not furnish India vr. 't.h good government.