The Sun.
London, England, 1859-02-26 00:00:00

STATE OF EUROPE.

On the motion that the Speaker leave the chair and the
House resolve itself into a Committee of Supply,
Lord PALMERSTON rose and said—Sir, I rise, in pur-
suance of the notice which I have given, to make some few,
and I promise the house they shall be very few, observe-
vations upon the state of affairs on the Continent, and also
to ask her Majesty's Government whether they are in a
condition to make any communication which shall encour-
age the hope that the general peace of Europe will be pre-
served. I can assure hon. gentlemen opposite that I take

this step in no factious—l may say, no party spirit.
(Cheers.) Ido not wish to create any embarrassment to

her Majesty's Ministers. What I desire to do is to perform
a duty which I think incumbent on the House of Commons
—namely, to inquire, in the present state of things, what
are the prospects to which this country can look forward in
regard to the coming spring. Sir, it is needless to attempt
to disguise that there is a general apprehension, not in this
country only, but throughout all Europe, that the ensuing
spring will bo marked by great conflicts between military
Powers. The last communication which we had from her
Majesty's Government on this subject was that which fell
from the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer on the first night of the session, now more than
three weeks ago. What he then stated was that the con-
tinuance of peace was not absolutely hopeless. He, indeed,
qualified that observation afterwards in the course of his
speech ; but it was evident that such was the impression
at that time resting on his mind. I think, therefore, that
I am not taking an undue liberty with the house in giving
to the Government an opportunity of saying whether that
is still the impression under which they labour, or whether
anything may since then have intervened which imparts
a more cheerful colour to the aspect of affairs, and en-
courages them to hope where hope before was not abso-
lutely out of the question. Sir, I do not blame the
Government for having hitherto made no communi-
cation to this houso. It is not the practice, nor do I
think it the duty, of her Majesty's Ministers to volun-
teer communications except when some event has hap-
peed of sufficient importance to justify that step. But it
is, I hold, the duty of the members of this house, in mo-
ments of great uncertainty, great public anxiety, to give to
the Ministry an opportunity, by interrogatories put to
them, of making such communications as consistently with
their responsibility they may think it expedient to offer f6r
the information of the country. If they aro enabled to state
from the relations between us and foreign Powers, or from
the relations subsisting between the different continental
States, there is a fair prospect and hope that peace will be
maintained, that is an announcement which would be highly
satisfactory to the public and most useful to all the com-
mercial classes of this kingdom—(cheers)—who are now
about to make their arrangements for the ensuing year—
arrangements which must greatly depend on the pro-
bability whether they will be encouraged by peace or
thwarted by war. On the other hand, it her Majesty's
Government are in possession of knowledge which compels
them to say they are greatly afraid that all attempts to pre-
vent hostilities will be vain, then I say " forewarned is fore-
armed." Better that the truth should be known, better
that commercial men should understand the position in
which they are placed, than that they should be led to take
steps in the dark, and perhaps afterwards find themselves
on the brink of an abyss. What, then, is the ground on
which I think it necessary to put this question to her Ma-
jesty's Government ? Why, wo know that from one end
of Europe to the other there is not only great expectation
of some approaching conflict, but that Governments are
arming, that vast preparations are making for warlike
enterprises—that armies are collecting, I will not ray
being increased, because most of the great military Powers
of the Continent have been maintaining in time of peace
a force ready for the outbreak of war—that military stores
are being accumulated, cannon casting, horses being
bought, troops moved from point to point, fortifications
raised, ships being equipped, transports got in readi-
ness. All these things indicate an anticipation on
the part of the Governments engaged in thorn that
in the course of the ensuing spring and summer they
may be called upon to make some great military or naval
efforts. This being the state of the case, one naturally asks
one's-self, what is all this about ? what is the cause which
has led these different Governments to make these extensive
preparations ? Is it the fact that any one Power has given
to another great cause of offence, or inflicted some great in-
jury for which redress has been demanded and refused,—
that honour and dignity on the one side are committed
against honour and dignity on the other, and that there-
fore nothing is left but to submit the ground of quarrel to
the arbitrament of the sword ? Sir, lam not aware that
any such cause exists. (Cheers.) I have yet to learn that
bet Ween any two great Powers us .nurope mese ss.s
any ground of difference which would justify or require an
appeal to arms. (Renewed cheers.) Then I ask myself, has
any great Power manifested an intention to set aside those
treaties which form the groundwork of the existing settle-
ment of Europe by making an unprovoked aggression upon
any of its neighbours ? To begin with France,—l cannot
suppose her to entertain any intention to commit a wanton
violation of treaties, because, while it may be true that the
treaties of 1815 were not altogether such as the French na-
tion might wish—although they left France untouched as
one of the greatest naval and military Powers of the conti-
nent, although they left her powerful by her natural re-
sources, by the intelligence of her people, by all her means
of offence and defence—l say whatever the French nation
might have thought of those treaties, every successive Go-
vernment in France from the year 1815 dawn to the present
hour, whether that Government has been monarchical, re-
publican, or imperial, has respected and observed those
treaties with signal good faith. And I have yet to learn
that there is any reason for imputing to the existing
Government in France any intention to depart from the
loyal conduct which has hitherto characterised the rulers of
that nation. (Cheers.) Then, is Austria going to break
these treaties—Austria, who rests upon them her title
to the possessions to which, unwisely I think, she in
point of fact still clings? (Cheers.) Is Austria likely to
set an example of breaking the engagements to which she
appeals as the title deeds of some of the territories that sho
prizes the most? I cannot believe anything of that kind.
Is Austria likely to enter into an unprovoked conflict with
Sardinia ? Tho Austrian Government must be too wise to
contemplate an undertaking which, whatever might be its
first result, must ultimately end in great discomfiture and
disaster. (Cheers) Well, is Sardinia preparing to commit
an unprovoked breach of those treaties—Sardinia, which
holds by these very stipulations the possessions which are
the chief source of her wealth and prosperity. (Cheers.) I
cannot believe that the sagacious monarch who rules Sar-
dinia, or the wise Minister who governs under his Majesty,
can contemplate anything so wild and insane. Then, as to
Russia and Prussia, surely they have no intention to dis-
turb the peace of Europe by a wanton and unprovoked in-
fraction of treaty. But if there is no question pending
between any of these Powers -which would 'naturally lead
to war—if there is no design on the part of any of them
to violate the treaties which form the settlement of
Europe—what is it that has produced the general impres-
sion which prevails as to their disagreement and their pre-
parations for an appeal to force ? Sir, I think we must
look for the cause of all this to tho state of Central Italy.
(Hear, hear.) It must lio in the ancient rivalries and

jealousies which have so long existed between France and
Austria in regard to Italy, and which have now been
brought into more active operation by the joint occupation
of Central Italy by the troops of these two Powers. That,
in my opinion, is the only point to which we can refer the
anxiety that exists, and the preparations of which wo are
told. That occupation of Central Italy, which began under
excusable reasons, and was meant to be only temporary,
has now continued for nearly 10 years. It is now high
time that it should end—(cheers)--and if it be that which
is the real cause of these jealousies and differences
between two great military Powers, why the obvious
and ready method by which the general uneasiness of
Europe can be calmed down, and any contest between
France and Austria avoided, would be their mutual and
simultaneous evacuation of the States of the Church, and
their retirement within their own respective frontiers.
(Renewed cheers.) Sir, I know only that which everybody
knows; but I should say that the French Government must
feel the embarrassment of their present position. I should
think that if either party showed a disinclination'to assent
to such a mutual retirement, that disinclination must arise
on the part of Austria—on her part, I must say, from a mis-
takenview of her own interest as connected with this ques-
tion. It is said that Austria may think if she withdraws
from
,the Papal dominions that a revolution would break
out ; that the flame once kindled, it might extend within
her own boundaries; and that the only way to guard herself
against danger, therefore, is to maintain the occupation of
the Roman States. Sir, I believe that to be a shortsighted
and fallacious argument. (Cheers.) It is urged, indeed,
that if my neighbour's house is about to take fire I should
not wait till the conflagration has broken out, but must go
into his house to prevent it. Now, I would give different
Make your own house fireproof by
advice. I should say—"
good government—establish an efficient fire brigade within
your own premises, and let your neighbour deal with his
house in the same manner." (Laughter and cheers.) But
why should this misapprehension be entertained ? Why
should the occupation of the Roman States by a large
foreign force be necessaW for the preservation of tranquil-
lity? . Has not the Roman Government troops of its own.
(Cheers.) Has it not Roman soldiers to maintain order?
But it is said, "Every Roman soldier is against the Go-
vernment, and if an outbreak were to happen they would
join the insurgents, instead of supporting the Government."
Why, sir, do those who maintain that argument consider
what a reflection it contains—(hear)—that the Government
• is so bad that it cannot find is the whole pointlation faith-

ful body to defend it against insurrection? Then they
have the Swiss troops, but they say, "The Swiss, too,
would join the insurgents." The Swiss, who aro faithful to
the tyrannical Government of Naples—who stood by their
employers in that State with a fidelity which, in fact, and in
truth, was praiseworthy, although, perhaps, misapplied in
that particular case—(a laugh)—are we told that even they
will not stand by the Roman Government in the event of an
insurrection ? Why, Sir, if that be so, it is the greatest
condemnation which can be passed upon the Government
of Rome ; but that that Government is so bad that neither
native nor foreigner in its pay can be induced to support its
authority is no reason why France and Austria should be
there to maintain it. (Hear, hear.) But it is said that
these are Catholic Powers, and that it is their duty to sup-
port the head of their religion. Why, Sir, am I to be told
that it is essential to the ecclesiastical and spiritual autho-
rity of the head of a large section of the Christian Church
that a Government should be maintained which is so bad
that it condemns two or three millions of its subjects from
generation to generation to civil and political martyrdom ?
That is a libel upon the Catholic Church—(hear)—and so
far from thinking that the maintenance of such a Govern-
ment is any advantage to that Church, I am persuaded that
a reform of the administration of the Roman State would
be beneficial both to itself and to the Catholic religion. In-
deed, I have heard it seriously argued that I, as a Pro-
testant, ought not to endeavour to procure an improvement
in the administration of Rome, because the bad character
which the Roman Government has obtained is an advantage
to those who differ from the Roman Catholic belief. I can-
not see that that is any reason why a Protestant should not
wish for an improvement in the temporal arrangements of
the Roman States—(hear)—but I am sure that it is an
additional reason why every good Catholic ought to desire
such an improvement. (Hear.) Well, then, if this is at
the bottom of the differences which have led to these mili-
tary preparations, and I am myself unable to see any cause
except this mutual jealousy between France and Austria, I
say that the Government of Great Britain is in a position
in which it may be able, by the exercise of its good offices
and the influence of its sound advice, to render most im-
portant services to Europe. We are in intimate alliance
with the Government of France, we are on the best possible
terms with the Government of Austria. Neither of these
Governments can suspect the motives which may actuate us
in the endeavour to produce an accommodation; neither of
them can believe that we should advise it to take any step
which would be inconsistent with its honour or would im-
pair its dignity ; and therefore both must be willing to ac-
cept our counsels in the spirit in which they are given.
Whether they adopt them or not depends upon their own
disposition, but there can be no reason to prevent the Go-
vernment of this country taking such steps in negotiation
as they may think calculated to avert the evils of a general
war; and I cannot but hope that her Majesty's Government
is taking the course which may produce such a result.
(Hear.) We all know that Austria has certain treaties
with the States of Italy. These treaties, I believe, contain
engagements of two kinds—one to protect them against ex-
ternal aggression, and the other in certain cases to afford
them internal assistance. Nobody would ask Austria to
forego the first of these engagements. Between the ruling
families of many of the Italian States and that of Austria
there are relationships and consanguinity which would pe-
culiarly justify engagements for mutual defence; but, even
without that inducement, nothing is more common than
that a powerful State should feel it its interest to make en-
gagements with a weaker one for the defence of the latter
against hostile attacks. We have our engagements with
Portugal ; Austria may justly have her engagements of the
same sort with some of the Italian States. But the other
engagements, those which go to interference in the internal
affairs of the States, are such as Austria might, with pep-
feet honour, and perfect dignity, put an end to ; and unless
these engagements cease I am afraid that a momentary
evacuation by Franco and Austria would be an act that
would produce no permanent effect. Unless it was clearly
established that the French troops and the Austrian troops
should go away, never to return, except in the case of foreign
war, the mere momentary evacuation would be of no perma •
mist avail. (Hear.) Sir, I know it is urged that these
States, especially the Roman, say, "For Heaven's sake
don't leave us ; because, if you do, we shall be liable to the
greatest disasters." Why, that is very like a story that we
have all heard of a nobleman, a relative, I believe, of a
member of this house—a generous and kindhearted man—
who, walking one day in the park, was accosted by a labour-
ing man, who, telling a piteous tale, said, " If your honour
don't assist me I shall be driven by desperation to do that
which nothing but despair would induce ma to do." The
nobleman gave him half-a-cown, and then, retiring a few
steps, said, " Now, ray good man, what was it that you
would have done if I had not relieved you ?" " Why, sir,"
replied the man, " cannot you guess it ? I should have
been compelled to go and ask for work, and nothing but the
depth of despair would drive me to commit such an act."
(Great laughter.) So say the Roman Government, " For
Heaven's sake don't leave us, for if you do the greatest
of all possible calamities will befall us," and if you were to
ask them what the calamity is, they would, if they told
the truth, reply, "Why, we should be compelled to reform
our administration—(cheers)—and that is what we should
consider the greatest of all possible calamities." For my
part, I think that they ought to be left to that greatest of
all possible calamities—(hoar, hoar)—and that any arrange-
ment which would be calculated permanently to secure the
peace of Europe must be founded, first of all, upon the re-
-et trnnna from the central States of Italy—
(hear, hear)—next, upon the engagement that they should
under no circumstances go back again; and thirdly, upon
an endeavour by friendly advice to procure an improvement
in the administration of those States. (Hear, hoar.) In
tendering that advice we should not be doing it for the
first time. In 1832 England, France, Austria, Russia,
and Prussia all united to give good advice to the Roman
Government. It is unnecessary to go into the details of
that counsel; but it was advice which, if taken, would
have afforded contentment to the bulk of the Roman
people, and would have rendered unnecessary many things
which have occurred since. I do not mean to say that any
reforms or any alterations would entirely and effectually
prevent desperate men from raising occasional dis-
turbances. The best Governments aro subject to those
inconveniences. We have had our cabbage-garden rebel-
lion ; we have now our Phoenix Society. We have had
our Chartist riots, we have had our Canadian revolt, we
have had our Indian mutiny, but the bulk of the people
being satisfied with the Government under which they lived,
these temporary local and partial disturbances have been
put down by the strong hand, and no danger has been in-
curred by the institutions of the country. (Cheers.) So
would it be in Rome if a good and enlightened system of ad-
ministration were established. There might be desperate
men who here and there might produce disturbances, but
the bulk of the people would be contented with the Govern-
ment, and no serious danger would thereby occur to the
state. Well, sir, I would therefore venture to submit, as
an individual opinion, that if her Majesty's Government
were to succeed in obtaining from Austria and Franco by
negotiation, by friendly advice, the evacuation of the Ro-
man States, and an engagement that, come what might,
they would not return, they might then address themselves
to the four Powers, and unite in a repetition of that which
took place unfruitfully in 1832—an endeavour by friendly
counsels to procure such an improvement in the condition,
not only of Rome, but also of the other smaller states of
Italy as would secure the future tranquillity of those coun-
tries. At all events, whether such efforts were successful
or not, the British Government would have done its duty,
and would stand acquitted whatever might be the conse-
quences. (Cheers.) Well, then, sir, in the interests of
peace I make the appeal to the right hon. gentleman and
his colleagues. I have chosen this opportunity of doing it
because I felt that the spring was coming on fast, that the
period for commercial enterprise on the ono hand, and for
military operations on the other,was nearly approaching, and
that delay might expose me to the imputation of supineness.
taking
this hear.) I felt that xo one would blame me for
this step so soon ; that many might justly find fault with
me for having delayed it so long—(hear, hear)—but that this
was a peculiarly fitting moment to do it, because, when the
house is about to enter into the consideration of those
estimates which are intended to provide for the defence
of the country, we are entitled to know how we stand
with regard to the prospects:of the coming summer—(cheers)
—whether we are to expect to see a conflagration involving
all the countries of Europe—for if the flame begins in one
corner tb ere is no saying that it may not extend over the whole
surface of the continent—whether, in the opinion of her
Majesty's Government, we are to expect a state of things
which, if it occurs, may no doubt render it necessary for
this country to collect its strength and to watch events in
order that it may be prepared to exercise its influence where
it would be most effectual ; or whether, on the contrary,
there is such an appearance of the approach of tranquillity
that we may look only to what would, under ordinary cir-
cumstances, be the peace establishments of the country,
always securing that reserve which a wise Government
would maintain in order to be prepared for unforeseen cir-
cumstances. (Hear, hear.) I think, therefore, the Go-
vernment will see that in the spirit in which I have made
these observations there is no desire to embarrass, no party
feeling—(cheers)—but that I am giving them an opportu-
nity, which, perhaps, they could not with propriety have
sought of their own accord, for calming—if they are able to
do so—the public anxiety in regard to the state of the con-
tinent. (Hear, hear.) If it should please the Government
to say that communications are going on which would ren-
der it impossible for them consistently with the public in-
terests to make any statement at all, I, of course, would be
the last man who would not accept such a declaration on their
part. I should infer from it, on the contrary, that their
hopes preponderate over their fears—(cheers)—and should
certainly not say or do anything which might tend
.to
prevent the accomplishment of the object we all halvecainn
view. (Cheers.) Sir, that being all I have to say!on
bo_
only add that I have chosen this particular ocean h
cause I feel that any great discussion upon matters whic
are hanging in so nice a balance might be inconvenient to
the public interests. I have, therefore, not given notice of
a motion for any papers ; I have not chosen a day on which
any lengthened discussion could arise ; but I have purposely
selected an occasion when this house is anxiously waiting
to hear the statement of the First Lord of the Admiralty
upon a matter of the utmost national importance, and when,
therefore, the few observations which I have made will pro-
bably draw some statement from the right hon. gentleman
opposite, but when they are not calculated to 1W to a gone

ral discussion ; for it must be obvious to all that, with the
different views which many gentlemen take of these ques-
tions, and with the imperfect information which we possess,
things might be said that might tend to thwart the very
objects ivhich we all have at heart. (Cheers.) I believe the
whole country and every man in this house wishes for the
_ _ _

continuance of peace, not from any fear of the dangers that
war would bring upon us, but from a sense of the general
inconvenience to which all nations would be subjected by
the occurrence of hostilities, and from a desire that Europe
should continue to enjoy that state of repose which tends ro
powerfully to promote its commercial interests, its intellec-
tual progress, and the happiness and welfare of its people.
(Loud and general cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Sir, I am
not surprised that the noble lord, occupying the position in
this house of leader of the Opposition, should have availed
himself of this legitimate occasion, in the present critical
state of affairs, to make the inquiries which he has addressed
to the Ministers of the Crown. I feel it quite unnecessary
to assure the noble lord that we acquit him upon this occa-
sion of even the possibility of being influenced by any party
feeling in the course he has pursued. (Cheers.) I hope,
sir, I may appeal with confidence to the conduct of gentlemen
who sit on this side of the house at a moment of great diffi-
culty—l mean before the late war occurred—as a proof that
it is possible to conduct an Opposition in this country-without
awant of patriotism even in the most critical times. (Cheers.)
Sir, the state of affairs, no doubt, fully justifies the noble lord
in the inquiries which he has addressed to us. It is notorious
that military preparations are taking plaee in various parts
of Europe. It is notorious that the resources are being mar-
shalled of two, at least, of the great military Powers of the
continent; and, indeed, I cannot contemplate a juncture
which would render it more justifiable on the part of an
individual occupying the position of the noble lord to ad-
dress an inquiry to the Ministers of the Crown, or one which
would render the House of Commons more sensible that we
have a duty to fulfil, however anxious we may be to exer-
cise all that reserve which the circumstances may appear te
require. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I entirely agree with the
view which the noble lord has taken of the position of the
great Powers interested in the settlement of 1815. I think
the noble lord has shown, in a lucid and satisfactory nien-
ner, that it cannot be the interest of any of those Powers to
disturb that settlement. (Hear, hear.) It is my belief
that it is not the wish of any of them to do so. (Cheers.)
But I agree with the noble lord that there are circum-
stances in existence, that there is an anomalous state of
affairs brought about in Italy, which might lead to very
disastrous consequences, and might even occasion war,
although the object contemplated at the commencement of
hostilities might not be a desire to challenge or impugn the
settlement of 1815. (Hear, hear.) Sir, the noble lord has
given us a lively picture of the military preparations that
are now taking place on the continent. Allow me to assure
the noble lord that when all have been so stirring and so
active her Majesty's Ministers have not been altogether
idle. (Cheers.) We have endeavoured, to the best of our
ability, and with the utmost vigilance, to take that course
which we believed, in the present difficult position of affairs,
was conducive to the maintenance of the general peace.
(Cheers.) We have appreciated the importance of what
the noble lord has rightly described as the favourable posi-
tion which might be occupied by this country between the
two Powers to which he referred. We possess, and I hope
we shall long possess, an intimate alliance with, France.
We are, as the noble lord truly observed, on terms of cor-
dial understanding with Austria. We are, therefore, in
a position in which we can offer advice and counsel
of which the motives cannot be mistaken. We have given,
and we have received, proofs of friendship from both
of these powers, and we have no other interest in their good
understanding in the present instance than that which all
States must have in the maintenance of peace. (Cheers.)
Sir, the noble lord wishes to know whether it is in our
power to make any communication to the house as to the
present state of affairs. Tho noble lord has very liberally
and generously admitted that if it is not in our power to
make any communication—if we state that it would be inh
convenient and injurious to the public interest to make any
communication—he will not only not press us to do so, but
will give us credit for doing our duty to our Sovereign and
our country, and take the most sanguine view of the future
which circumstances may render possible. (Hear, hear.)
Sir, I have satisfaction in informing the noble lord and the
house that we have received communications which give us
reason to believe that ere long the Roman. States will be
evacuated by the French and Austrian troops, and that too
with the concurrence of the Papal Government. (Loud
and prolonged cheering.) Under these circumstances Lord
Cowley, who enjoys the entire confidence of her Majesty's
Government, has repaired to Vienna in a confidential capa-
city. The house will not expect me to enter into 'details
as to the precise character of his mission, or of the instritc-
tions which her Majesty has been pleased to give him.
(Hear, hear.) Enough for me to say that his mission is one
of peace and conciliation. (Cheers.) Now, sir, I hope I
have treated the house with candour upon this occasion.
(Hear, hear.) I trust, therefore, it will not misconceive
tho spirit in which I would venture to make one other re-
mark. Sir, the proceedings and debates of this house are
nicely scanned in foreign countries. (Hear, hoar.) Ex-
pressions used in our freedom of discussions are subjected to
interpretations very often which the speakers themsalve s
never contemplated. (Hear, hear.) It is impossible to say
what might be the effect at the present moment of a
heated debate or an indiscreet phrase. (Hear, hoar.) . I
trust, therefore, I shall not appeal in vain to the hoes
when I impress upon it tne importance or postponm
discussion on this subject for the present. (Cheers.) I
can, on behalf of her Majesty's Government, assure the
house that every effort will be made on their part to main-
tain the general peace, and I can assure the house also that
it will be on principles consistent with the dignity and wel-
fare of Europe. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL, who, by dropping his voice at the
end of each sentence, was partially inaudible, said,—l am
very glad that my noble friend the member for Tiverton ha
made the inquiries which he has done. I was quite sure
that he would make those inquiries in a spirit which woul d
tend to the preservation of peace, which would be bocomin g
his position, and bo for the interests of Europe. (Hear. )
And now, my noble friend having made those inquiries, I
congratulate the house upon the answer which they hay
elicited. (Cheers.) It was a matter of great anxiety to
know, in the first place, whether her Majesty's Governmen
took that view of their position, that they wore in a favour-
able situation to use their influence, and to give their ad-
vice to the Powers between whom these differences have
arisen—to tell both France and Austria what was, in their
calm and deliberate view, the situation of the affairs of
Europe. I rejoice to find that her Majesty's Governmen t
have taken that view of their position. (Hear.) I think
it was an advantage which was not to be forgotten. But,
in the next place, we have heard from the right hon. gen-
tleman not only that declaration, but that advantages
have already flowed from the interposition which
has taken place—(cheers)—that it is the intention
of those great Powers to evacuate the Roman territories--
though it is also the intention of her Majesty's Government,
through Lord Cowley, to interpose at Vienna with such
influence as in their opinion may be most conducive to the
general peace. (Cheers.) Now, sir, I shall expect from
the calm sagacity and intelligent prudence of Lord Cowley
everything which diplomacy can effect. (Hear.) Of course,
I do not wish to say anything as to the terms which may be
agreed upon. With regard to the terms which may be fit te,
be accepted by France and Austria, it is for those Powers
to decide, and no doubt their honour will be sufficiently
guarded. But there is another country, with respect to
which I would wish to make one, and only one, observa-
tion. It has frequently fallen to my lot—it has frequently
appeared to me to be my duty—to call the attention of this
house to the state of Italy, as a state which at one time or
other must, if the danger were not sufficiently provided
against, become perilous to the peace of Europe. (Hear.)
But at this time I have only this observation to make—l
observe that in the Senate and Parliament of Turin it is
supposed that the sympathies of this country for Italian
liberty are become lukewarm. It is my firm persuasion that
no war, if it arose, by whatever triumph it were attended—
whether a war on the part of the Italian people unassisted,
or whether a war of the Italian people assisted by a great
Power, would bring such advantages to Italy, or would be
so fraught with benefit in the future, as the pacific arrange-
ments which may be made with the great Powers of Eu-
rope. It is, therefore, from no want of sympathy
for the
Italian people who have been suffering, but is, on theol arcon-
trary,l from a warm desire to see them P"sPerlr future
happiness my opinion that they ought not to seek their
rt
andure
happiness in war, but that they should use every e
andgie anye ve
rY
otherfae lit
Powersy t o
tenableoFrance,endeavour
to
Auisntrisuar'eGthree atßrlta man
happiness of the world. (Loud cheers.) I have no peace
doubt
ub
i
this house will think it right to refrain from making fur-
ther observations. (Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER immediately put the question, "That
Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair,
it " and having formally
declared carried, was leaving the chair, as Mr. W.
limns bustled up the house from the bar, and, finding no
vacant seat, addressed him from the gangway. The Speaker
did not pause, the mace was removed from the table, and,
Mr. Fitzroy took the seat usually occupied by the chairman
of committees. The house in fact was, as it is termed,
resolved into committee, and there was considerable laugh-
ter from the Ministerial benches at the member for Lam-
beth's situation. Mr. Williams did not seem inclined to
submit, but as there was no- motion before the committee,
and the cries of " Order" were loud and continuous, he was
compelled to sit down, and the Chairman called on Sir J.
Pakington.

THE NAVY ESTIMATES.
Sir J. PAKINGT ON said—Mr. Fitzroy, I now rise to
state the views and intentions of her Majesty's Government
on that subject which touches more closely, perhaps, than
any other the national pride of Englishmen and the safety
and welfare of England, and I can assure the committee
that I approach the discharge of the duty which now de-
volves upon me with feelings of very great anxiety. (Hear,
hear.) I cannot but feel that the public interest and atten-
tion have of late been directed to the state of the navy, and
that my responsibility therefore is unusually great. (Hear.)
I shall be obliged to trouble the committee with considerable
details, and I trust I shall receive that forbearance without
which it would be very difficult to lay before them with.
clearness the views which it will be my duty to explain,
and the intentions which on the part of the Government I
shall h(we t 9 lumottme, Defore I proceed to expltuu