The Sun.
London, England, 1861-07-16 00:00:00

CHURCH RATES.

The Bishop of BATH and WELLS presented several
petitions in favour of church rates.

TREASORE TROVE.

Lord TALBOT DE MALAIIIDE, in calling the atten-
tion of the house to the law of treasure trove, dilated at
considerable length on the present imperfect state of the
law on this subject. He moved for some returns on the
subject.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the great diffi-
culty in the way of legislating on this subject arose from
the necessity of granting compensation if any private rights
were abolished. He quite agreed with the noble lord with
reference to the defective state of the present law.
Lord TALBOT DE MALAHIDE explained that he
would only propose at present to alter the law in cases
where no private rights would be affected by such alteration.
The Duke of ARGYLE did not speak on this subject
as a member of the Government, but he desired
to thank his noble friend for having brought this subject
forward. His own attention had been called to the sub-
ject some time since in Scotland, when he became aware
of the injurious action of the present law. He knew of
many interesting historical relics which had been con-
signed to the melting pot to escape the legal claims against
them.

LAW REFORM IN IRELAND.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved an address for
a commission to inquire into the best mode of assimilating
the administration of justice in England and Ireland—in ac-
cordance with the recommendations of the commission of
1855—and especially to examine the following points :—the
constitution and practice of the Superior Courts of Common
Law in Ireland, and the difference between the constitution
and procedure of the Courts of Chancery in England and
Ireland. Ile complained that the legal reforms introduced
into the Ceurts, both of Equity and Common Law, in Eng-
land, had not been extended to Ireland.
Lord WENSLEYDALE said that this was a matter for
serious consideration, and well deserving the attention of a

commission.
Lord BROUGHAM hoped that the time would come
when all the improvements in the English legal system
would be extended to Ireland.
The motion, amended according to a suggestion of Earl
GRANVILLE, by the omission of the reference to the Royal
Commission, was then agreed to.
THE EASTERN COAST OF AFRICA AND THE
SLAVE TRADE.
Lord STRATHEDEN moved, " That in the opinion of
this house it is desirable without delay to secure the consu-
lar authority of Great Britain at Mozambique, in order to
assist the Government of Portugal in repressing the slave
trade on the eastern coast of Africa." The noble lord, who
was almost inaudible in the gallery, was understood to say
that several years ago a British Consul was stationed at
Mozambique in order to promote the abolition of the slave
trade from that part of the coast of Africa. Since then a
paper had been presented to the other house of Parliament,
in which Mozambique was included in the list of places the
consulate at which was to be abolished. In December, 1859,
her Majesty's commissioners distinctly informed the Go-
vernment that the slave trade in that part of the eastern
coast of Africa had much increased. The noble lord then
read several extracts from other despatches, to the effect
that the French were carrying on a slave trade from that
part of the east coast of Africa. The present Governor-Ge-
neral of Mozambique went to the station in April, 1857. He
reached it at the same time that our consul did, and he was
sent in point of fact by our influence. He took with him in-
structions, which were rather those of Britain than of Por-
tugal, to eradicate the slave trade in whatever form it might
present itself. He was not unfaithful to his mission. Under
his auspices the coast of Mozambique was cleared of French
vessels; and he seized one vessel, the Charles et Georges.
The French Government demanded satisfaction for this,
and the inhabitants of Lisbon saw French vessels in the
Tagus which had been sent thither to enforce that demand.
This was all because the Governor-General had done his
duty. The slave trnde had been abolished on thew estern
coast of Africa, and by what means had it been abolished ?
For 15 years we had had there a British representative—
either consul, arbitrator, or commissioner. The evil con-
sequences of the suspension of our consular autho-
rity had been explained to their lordships last year,
and in the absence of a consul it could not be contended
that Portugal could be called upon to make any great sacri-
fices to endeavour to arrest the progress of the slave trade
in those waters. Portugal had to maintain a force for that
purpose, and she might call upon us to supply a consul. A
fit and proper representative of this country ought to be
sent out—a person who had had experience in the Portu-
guese possessions, and who could exercise an influence upon
the Portuguese authorities. Mr. Gabriel was the person
who possessed these qualifications in the highest degree.
The course which this country had taken for the last fifty
years in Africa imposed on us the obligation of continuing
to make great exertions for the promotion of the object we
had in view. On these grounds he hoped their lordships
would agree to his motion.
Lord WODETIOUSE said that the address to the crown
recommending the appointment of a commission, consider-
ing the circumstances under which it was carried last year,
could hardly ba considered as the enunciation of the decided
opinion of this house. He submitted that it would not be ex-
pedient to agree to this resolution. The despatches respect-
ing the French slave trade to which his noble friend had re-
ferred applied to a state of things which no longer existed.
At the time of the Charles et Georges affair there was an ac-
live emigration of negroes, but that emigration has ceased
in consequence of the letter written by the Emperor of
the French in the beginning of 1859. The treaty with
France did not refer to the emigration from the eastern
coast, which had already been put a stop to by the let er of
1559, but to the emigration from the western coast, which
was
ro be put an end to in 1862, The reason for that date
being fixed upon was, that the French Government had en-
tered e
toi be nto acotitrac; by which a certain number of blacks
sent to Martinique and other colonies ; that con •
tract would not expirew until the middle of 1862, and her Ma-
jesty' s Government unwilling to consent to a treaty
allowing the emigration of coolies to those colonies until
the emigration of black:
ceased. This proved
that her Majesty's Governmentiithairaeedsltyinot been indifferent or
negligent in the matter. The
at.oisraloof the expediency
of the appointment of a consul
que was one
which involved no princ'ple, and whichzoaumbhitulto be left to
the discretion of the Executive Government. (gear)
his noble friend had not only suggested that a con:turf
proper person be appointed, he had even indicated the
appoint. Fully admitting that the able and excellent gen-
tleman named by the noble lord, Mr. Gabriel, was exceed-
ingly well qualified for the post, he thought it was scarcely
expedient to take such a question out of the discretion of the
Government. (Hear, hear.) His noble friend Lord Claren .
don, who was not able to be present to-night, had given him
authority to say that in his opinion the matter ought to be
left in the hands of the Foreign Secretary ; and, further,
that he did not think a consul would be of any use without
a large squadron on the eastern coast. If the Government
placed a large squadron there no doubt they might at great
expense repress the traffic, but he did not think that the
mere placing of a consul upon one part of the coast would
have any material effect. It was a coast of hundreds of
miles in extent, and the jurisdiction, though claimed by the
Portuguese, was only held in a few isolated spots, the chief
power being exercised by independent sultans. On the wes-
tern coast the casewas different,the Portuguesereally hold-
ing possession of the country which they claimed, and if
they d. etermined to suppress the slave trade there they could
do so ;as easily as we could in the case of any of our own colo-
nies. The Portuguese were equally earnest he was sure to
prevent the slave traffic on the east, but they had not the
power there that they had on the west coast. This question
of the appointment of a British consul was one, he was
quite Toady to admit, which was worthy of consideration,
but he thought there were reasons for pausing before the
mean re was carried out, and amongst them that they
should. first obtain the opinion of Dr. Livingstone. He
tlPpeal ed, therefore, to their lordships not to pass the reso-
lution, but to place confidence in his noble friend at the
lied
ead cForeign-office, the known as he was for his zeal in
the
"1 ,PTession of the slave trade, and in her Majesty's
Gov uncut to decide as to the time and manner of ap-
piliur a" a consul to this coast if the appointment should
a1312,ar to them desirable.
Lord". II AM
in its f Ivour observed, that the decision last year
not been sufficient to carry the motion of
his not de friend.l had been stated that the majority on
that occasion was owing,
not to the facts brought not to the strength of the cause,
forward,ot not to the ability with
which they were stated, n
to the eloquence of his right
rev. fri end (the Bishop of Oxford), which was worthy of
the catsse he espoused—that it was not owing to any or all
of these ordinary causes of an
important majority in a de •
bate, but to what his noble friend (Le rd Wodehouse)e
;that
called
svrT, languag We had not a
" our letting our people go." That
might be used in some of our colonies—
sufficient number of workmen on our occasion to get in. the
sugar, to get ill tto cotton, or to gather the coffee, becttuset

the weather was such that we let our people go," (Hear,
hear, and a laugh.)
Lord WODEHOUSE had used the word " supporters,"
not " people."
Lord BROUGHAM understood the noble lord to say
" people." But letting their " supporters" go implied an
option with the noble lord to keep them or let them go,
so that whether the supporters were white or black the
authority appeared to be the same. (Laughter.) He con-
sidered it a matter of very great importance that the Por-
tuguese were as zealously disposed to abolish the slave trade
on this coast as they had abolished it on the west. Great
credit was due to Portugal for her conduct on the western
coast, and the benefit to Africa in the extension of legiti-
Nieto commerce and in the civilisation which it extended
over the district was incalculable. In all parts of that great
continent which had suffered so much from the crimes of
Christian white men, great improvement had been effected
where the slave trade had been checked or abolished. The
Portuguese complained that they had no authority upon
the east coast, but that if they were supported, as they ex-
pected to be, by the appointment of a consul there, that
support would enable them to carry into effect their desire
of extending their measure of suppression to the east as
well as the west coast. They were all agreed that the slave
trade must be put down by all means in our power, and it
, was not only right, but a duty of this country, by her
I authority, to aid a foreign power to put it down in foreign
colonies as to take measures for its suppression in her own
dependencies. They all desired its extinction, and they
hoped and trusted that by God's good Providence that ex-
tinction would be cffectcd before long, but it could only be
effected by peaceable means, and those only who were
friendly to the continuance of slavery would advocate negro
insurrection, which would be the greatest curse that could
fall upon the slaves; and he might instance what had oc-
curred in North Americo, as showing the effect of violent
measures. He believed that more was done by the public
opinion of this country in the cause of the abolition of
slavery than by those who resorted to rash and hasty mea-
sures.
Earl GRANVILLE wished to explain what was said by
the Secretary of State in reference to the division of last
year, which the noble and learned lord appeared to have
misunderstood. Of course there could be no physical com-
pulsion in the case, but the Government permitted mem-
bers to retire from the house under the impression that no
division would take place, and if those members had not
felt, the result of the division would have been very diffe-
rent. He did not desire to reopen the question, but upon
the ground insisted upon by the Secretary of State, that
the question was not one for the house to enter upon with
any effect, he ventured to make a respectful appeal to the
noble lord not to press his motion.
The Bishop of OXFORD had ventured last year to ask
the noble lord not to withdraw his motion in obedience to
the syren voice of the noble earl, but on the present occasion
he gave quite contrary advice, because he could not but
think that the appointment of a consul upon this coast had
been in some degree damaged by the house venturing to
give an opinion to the executive Government, which the
executive Government did not wish to receive and act upon.
By not acting last year upon the broad principle that that
house ought not to interefere in these matters, but should
trust implicitly to the executive, they might have prevented
for a whole year that which the Government might have
been inclined to do but for the decision of the house. Some
of the leading members of the present Government had
shown distinctly for years past that their hearts were in
the suppression of this curse, and he believed that if the
Government would venture to act upon their nobler inspi-
rations, when they found that the house had not inter-
posed with a vote in a matter that should be left to them-
selves, they would be inclined to carry out the principle of
the decision of last year. He thought, as far as argument
went, that the speech of his noble friend who moved the
resolution had not been answered by the Under Secretary.
The argument of the Under Secretary appeared to be that
a great deal had been done to stop the slave trade which
had been carried on for some time past on the east coast
of Africa, and that the declaration of the opinion of the
Government was a much more important step than the
appointment of a consul. This they ought to have
done, but they ought not to have left the other undone.
If, as he believed, the appointment of a consul on the east
coast would materially help on the great work which by
other means they had been labouring to accomplish, wh)
should this measure have been omitted ? And when he was
told that it would not be of any great avail to appoint a con-
sul unless that consul was supported by a numerous
squadron, he said that was simply an assertion, and there
had not been a shadow of argument to support it. So far
from believing that assertion, he believed, on the other
hand, that.the very smallest physical support of the consul
would be sufficient to preserve him from personal violence,
and that that was all the physical support he would need to
make his interference perfectly effective. There was, as it
appeared to him, a great contradiction in the argument of
the Under. Secretary. The noble lord had stated that on
the west coast a consul's influence would be of great weight,
because he had to deal with two independent slave-trading
chieftains, but that on the east it would be of less efficacy,
because he would have to do with the Portuguese and
French Governments. But afterwards the noble lord had
gone on to say that Portugal had no strength on the east
coast, but that the power was held by independent sultans,
and Portugal could not put it down. So that the argument
that a consul would be cf no avail there, because he would

have to deal with strong European powers, was answered by

the noble lord himself. He begged their lordships to consider
that there was a far greater power than the power of elo-
quence, and that was the power that was wanted to be
brought to bear upon the eastern coast of Africa—the public
opinion of the civilised world. (Hear, hear.) What he and
others expected from the appointment of a consul upon the
east coast was that a light would be thrown upon the deeds
of darkness there which would make their perpetual perpe-
tration impossible. They wanted the light of civilised
Europe thrown upon the actions not of the Portuguese Go.
vernment in Portugal, but upon the actions of the agents of
the Portuguese Government upon the eastern coast of
Africa ; and he maintained that the connivance in the slave
traffic, not by the Government in Portugal but by the Go-
vernment agents on the east coast, would be at once and for
ever prevented ; and that by a very trifling addition to the
expenses of her consular establishments this country would
be starting one of the most effectual agencies against that
cursed traffic which it was in her power to provide. It was
upon this ground that he earnestly desired the Government
to issue the necessary directions for the establishment of this
consular power. He would ask his noble friend to leave the
question in the hands of the Government, and he believed
that many of the difficulties which existed last year had
since passed away. He believed that the conclusion of the
treaty with the French Government for the termination of
the export of the so-called labourers from the African coast
would tend greatly to facilitate the appointment of a consul
there, who would be able to check the Portuguese governors
in their connivance in the slave trade, and he believed that
the moral sense of the civilised world, brought to bear upon
the district through the consul's means, would be more effec-
tual for the object in view than a powerful squadron on the
coast. And he believed that the labours of Dr. Livingstone
and others there, who were spreading the great principles
of civilisation, would not have the force which they all de-
sired to see them have, so long as along the coast, under the
seeming shadow of a Christian power, the abomination of
the slave trade was allowed to continue. (Hear.) They must,
by some means or other, make a momentary pause, in which
to sow the good seeds of a legitimate commerce. They could
not supplant the slave trade where it was once established
by merely endeavouring to introduce legitimate commerce,
because the returns from the slave trade to the chieftains there
were morce certain and more immediate, though destructive
in the long run of their own prosperity. Plant the seeds of
legitimate commerce, and then there need be no fear of the
revival of the slave trade ; but they mast have the opportu-
nity of planting the more lawful seeds, and no measure would,
under God's blessing, be more effectual for the purpose than
a measure which would bring to bear on the underlings of
the Portuguese Government the legitimate influence of their
Government through the moral influence of other powers.
e trusted that the result would not be thrown away upon
rity,
her Majesty's
Government ; that they would not act as
though
they were compelled by the force of a hostile majo-
siodf this
h
y would take a course recommended by
reason but that they and authority' and by the
sa earnest wishesr
yo
.f the edu-
cated and intelligent classes
Lord STRIi.THEDEN a
suggestions
clii!hould willingly, in ac-
thednce with the
continue his zealous efforts for
ls nobletb friend, withdraw
motion ; only expressing a hope
NT (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Foreign Secretary would still at the noble lord the
thpeosoupnprLesAsilovn ofA sthsiEs
strici
This bill was read a third time and passed.
HARBOURS BILL.

Tho report of amendments to this bill was received, and
the amendments were agreed to.
BEQUESTS OF PICTURES TO THE NATION.
On the motion of Earl GRANVILLE, a select cemmittee
was appointed to consider the proper measures to be taken
respecting the gifts and pictures of Turner and Vernon, and
any further gifts of the same kind.
INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
DEAN FOREST AND HUNDRED OF ST.
BRIAVELS BILL.

This bill was read a third time and passed.
METROPOLITAN POLICE FORCE PENSIONS
BILL.

The report of amendments To this.bill was received, and
the amendments were agreed to.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE. OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY,
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.'
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords' amendments to the following bills were con-
sidered and agreed to :—Barnsley Coal Railway, London
and North-Western, Lancaster and Carlisle, and Caledo-
nian Railways, Marlborough Railway, Rathkeale and
Newcastle Junction Railway, South Yorkshire Railway
(Keadby Extension), and Wigan Gas Mete' and Fitting
Company.

The Dumfries, Lochmaben, and Lockerby Junction Rail-
way, and Hammersmith, Paddington, and City Junction
Railway Bills were read a third time and passed.
The following bills were considered and ordered for third
reading:- Caledonian Railway giutherglenand coatbridge