The Sun.
London, England, 1857-05-09 00:00:00

was occasioned as if Lord Geo. Gordon's mob had broken
into the house. (A laugh.) The only question was how a
I change was to be brought about—whether by a standing
order or by legislation. He had been of opinion that le-
gislation was not necessary, and that theirlordsbipspro-
prio vigore had power to authorise witnesses to be sworn
before select committees. Since be last called their lord-
ships attention to the subject it had been further inquired
into by his learned friend Mr. Macqueen, and the opi-
nion he had entertained had been fortified by the result.
His lordship then referred to the precedent of the tryers
of petitions, who examined witnesses no doubt on oath.
If such power as that existed, might not the house order
its committees to administer an oath ? At the same time
he gave no decided opinion on the point, and did not
propose a standing order in reference to the mat-
ter. He believed ;hat the noble and learned lord on the
woolsack and the noble and learned lord on the cross•
benches (Lord Wensleydale) felt doubts as the power of
their lordships to allow witnesses to be sworn before se-
lect committees, and until those doubts were resolved he
should by nb means propose to move a standing order on
the subject. It might be said that the House of Com-
mons would object to pass a bill empowering their lord-
ships to swear witnesses before a select committee, as
that house had no such poser itself ; but that was an
anomaly which ought to be removed, and such autho-
rity ought to be given to the House of Commons. The
noble and learned lord concluded by moving for a select
committee to consider whether the privilege now enjoyed
by reports of the proceedings of courts of justice might
be safely and properly extended to reports of the pro-
ceedings' of the two houses of Parliament, and of any
and w bat other assemblies or public meetings, under
any and what conditions or restrictions ; and also for a
select committee to consider and report on the expe-
diency of altering the present mode of administering
oaths to witnesses to be examined by committees of the
house. He proposed to add to the committee Viscount
Eversley, whose great Parliamentary experience and con-
stitutional learning would, no doubt, be found of ,great
advantage. (Hear.)

The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that allj their
lordships would concur in the propriety of the course
proposed to be pursued by the noble and learned lord.
Both the subjects to which attention had been called were
of the greatest importance. With respect to the last
alluded to he confessed, looking at the matter with the
eye merely of a lawyer, he doubted whether it would he
safe to attempt to effect the important change suggested
simply by a standing order. It might be possible, inves-
tigating the subject with the eye of an antiquarian, to
discover precedents, leading to a conclusion that the right
of delegating to committees of the house to swear wit-
nesses did exist ; but it must be felt, if such a course were
taken and a witness were afterwards charged with per-
jury for evidence given before a committee, that it
would be to the last degree doubtful what might be the
decision of the judges on the validity of the oath so ad•
ministered ; and therefore, in matters which might in-
volve criminal consequences of great importance, he was
satisfied that legislations was the wisest course to pur-
sue. The object of administering oaths was to give
the highest sanction to truth, and it was always said
that an oath should be administered with the greatest
solemnity and by the highest functionaries ; but any of
their lordships who had witnessed the administration of
oaths in that house must be aware that the object was
entirely defeated. His noble and learned friend had cer-
tainly not exaggerated the indecorum attendant on the
swearing of witnesses at the bar of the house. S nue-
times, in consequence of the rushing in of witnesses to be
sworn at the bar, there was such a disturbance that the
proceedinv of a judicial nature which were going on had
to be suspended, or else they were continued in the midst
of noise made by a crowd at the bar taking oaths. There
was the least possible solemnity in the mode of adminis-
tering oaths, and that the evil ought to remedied he had
no doubt. He was sure that a power given to select
committees of their lerdships house to swear witnesses
I would work well, and the oaths would then be adminie-
tered with solemnity. He saw no difficulty in the sug-
gestion that the Commons would not pass a bill to enable
witnesses to be sworn before their lordships committees
without claiming a similar privilege for them-elves, for
be saw no reason wby they should not enjoy such a pri
vilege if it established an additional security in favour
of the truth. In that motion of his noble and learned
friend's, therefore, he entirely concurred, although he
would caution him and the rest of their lordships not to
be led away by' el•f antiquarian precedents of what bad
been done by the tryers of petitions in former days,
which might afford very scanty security against what
might be decisions of Westminster-ball in modern times.
With regard to the other motion be entirely agreed in
the expediency of removing what he admitted to be an
acknowledged and crying evil. He thought that it
would be very difficult to arrive at a definition of what
should be regarded as a public meeting ; but he believed
that the suggestion of his noble friend that juries should
have the power, in cases where they thought that no
damages had been inflicted, of finding a verdict for the
defendant which would give the defendant his costs
would afford a simple and practical remedy for the exist-
ing evil. He reserved to himself, however, the right to
examine the subject more in detail before committing
himself to the approval of any particular measure.

The motion Va'4 then agreed to.
TRA NS PO EtTATION.

The Fail of CARNA.RVON, who had a notice on
the paper with regard to transportation and penal servi-
tude. declined to open the question, perceiving that the
Home Secretary had revived his bill on the subject in
the other house.

Their lordships adjourned at five minutes past six.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(YESTERDAY.)

The SPEAKER took the chair at ten minutes to four
o'clock, when the swearing in of members was proceeded
with, and about a doz,!u took the oaths and their seats.
PRIVATE BILLS.

The Cierk at the tahle read a long list of private bills
standing over from the last session of Parltatnent, and
they were advanced to the stage at which they had ar-
rived previous to the dissolution.
COMMITTEE ON STANDING ORDERS.

Col. W. PATTEN moved the nomination of the fol-
lowing select committee on standing orders : Colonel
Wilson Patten, Mr. Henley, Mr. Sotherton E-qcourt,
Sir H. Ferguson, Sir J. Yarde Buller, Mr. Palmer, Mr.
Wrightion, Mr. Bramston, Mr. Tbornely, Mr. E. Lock-
hart, and Mr. Bonham-Carter.
Col. FRENCH complained of the absence of two Irish
members on the committee according to the usual
practice. . _

After a few remarks from Col. WILSON PATTEN, the
motion waa agreed to.
COMMITTEE OF SELECTION.
Colonel WILSON PATTEN moved the nomination
of the fallwing committee of selection :—Mr. Sotheron
Estcourt, Sir Robert Ferguson, Mr. Bonham-Carter,
Mr. Palmer, Lord Harry Vane, and the chairman of
the select committee on standing orders.
Agreed to.