The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-17 00:00:00

VEX

-- ' ",'''''',',!'!"'",oo,-:,:•71,1" 4, -,iitseoe!!"c?'.!""'-' -,-.'i ,7-T-.'-',..., -,, -,,--- ~-, ....... , . ~-,
iIdIUR /AI 01 wen Individuals ribose eondnet was al-1 And We very night the Chaneelior of the Exchequer
'
ready under the consideration of the committee, gets up and asks you, sir, to leave the chair in order that
Sir G. GREY said this was one of the cases under he may present the bill to the House of Common%
consideration a few Jaye before, in which it was con- i ask ;he House of C immons did anything of that sort
sidered that the writ ought to be suspended for a few ever take place before, (Hear.) I recollect being in this
days. He understood that it was then agreed that in house upon a solemn occasion. The war declared against
cases where it ;vas reconimepded by the committee a few l Itusa was declared in this house, and I shall not forget
days more should be given. (Hear, bear.) my own emotions, nor the appearance of the house on
Lord LOVAINE said that when the evidence was that occa,ion. When the person who officially made that
before the house they would see ample reason why the declaration made it at the bar every countenance wore a
writ should be suspended, solemn expression. They felt that England was ant-ring
Lord J. RUSSELL presumed it would be understood I into a contest which involved great interest, which
that the writ.weuld not be moved till Thursday ? might lead to disastrous consequences, and they felt that
Colonel FRENCH understood that it would not be it was a solemn, and, if I may use the phrase, an awful
moved till the evidence was printed, occasion. Bet the war with Russia was not a more awful
At the suggestion of Sir G. GREY, the motion was or more solemn event than the war with Persia. Persia,
withdrawn, in order to move as a substantive resolution indeed, was an inferior power to Russia, but the conse-
that the evidence be printed and the writ suspended to quences we now see. The mutiny at Delhi may be traced
Thursday next, which, after some discussion, was t ) denuding our Indian empire of forces on that occasion,
agreed to. and when they declared war and determined on that expe-
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD moved the suspension of the dition to Persia they ran tLe risk of losing our Indian em-
writ for Mayo till Thursday next, and hoped that fur- pire, and diminishing for ever the power of England. I
ther delay would be granted if necessary. say that these two occasions are equally important, and if
Colonel FRENCH bad no desire to argue the ques- the war with Russia were important and should be corn-
tion after the late decision, bnt pointed out that there municated to this house, so was the war with Persia,
were circumstances in the case which were somewhat considering the.war which followed it, and of which I
peculiar. He complained that a letter had been sent say the Government had notice. I have no doubt the
from :the committee down to the house, containing noble lord, if he deigns to answer me, will say that all
rtetements injurious to Mr. Sheridan, in respect to this is past, that the war with Persia has come to an
vibich he read a letter from the stipendiary magistrates end, that peace has been made, and that our relations
exonerating air. Sheridan from the charges against him. with Persia aro upon the best possible footing. I am
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for 1 RELA.ND said not going to enter into the question of our relations with
he had read the depositions, and they did not contain Persia. That is not my cause of complaint. My corn-
any evidence against Mr. Sheridan, but did contain plaint is that the House of Commons upon this occasion
same statements affecting a person of the name of has been entirely passed over ; that the House of Corn-
Sheeran, which might have led to the mistake. mons, exercisir g the privilege of providing for the ex-
Col. NORTH said the committee had done all that penses of an expedition, has a right to inquire into the
was in their power ; they had examined on oath the principles upon which the expedition is undertaken and
gentleman who had received the letter. It was abso- the expenses are incurred. I pay that a more contemp-.
lately necessary to come to the house fur protection for teems course than this was never pursued toward-, the
the witnesses. House of Commons. (Hear.) We are now called upon
Mr. BOWYER made a statement in defence of Father in the coolest manner possible to supply nearly a million
Conway, who had requested him to say that it was un- of money. The house is called upon, on the ipse disci of
true that he had made use of any curse or threat fro is the noble lord, to furnish sums, and no explanation is
the altar or elsewhere, against any person who should offered of the expenses incurred. I pay, if the House of
vote in a particular wry. Commons is prepared to undergo this insult—for insult
Lord 3: RUSSELL spoke to order. The report was it is—we had be' ter shut cur doors and go back to our
now before the house. constituents. (Cheers.) I know the power of the noble
Tee SPEAKER said it would not be regular for the lord. I know that he has—God knows how—obtained
bon. gentleman to make a statement in contradiction in the country a wonderful oeinion. Why the people
to a report not now before the house, concede to him that opinion I cannot for the life of me
After a few words from Mr. MAGUIRE, imagine, but I fully acknowledge that he is allowed to
The motion was agreed to. do thugs which others dare not do. Fancying I have
SUPPLY. a duty to perform, I will, however, raise my voice, feeble
On the order of the day for going into committee o as that voice is, and call upon my countrymen to point
supply. their finger at the conduct of the noble lord. I point
Sir JOHN RAMSDEN said, in answer to a question my finger at the conduct of the noble lord, and I say no
from Sir J. inaononeo, that on the retirement of Colonel conduct since the Hous lof Commons has been a House
G. C. Munday, late of the War Department, he was of Commons was ever so insulting as that which the
considered to be entitled to a pension of 1,0001. a year, noble lord has pursued on this occasion. When Chat les
which. was conferred on him subject to a condition that I. came down to this house in order to seize five of its
it should be in abeyance during the time that he might members he certainly did commit a breach of its privi-
be in receipt of a salary of-more than 1,0001. per annual loges, but he had gone through various stages in his
from any other office ; or that if he held any office of less progress t iwarde that point ; and the great result of all
than a 1,0001. a year only, the difference should be paid the revolutions connected with this house has been that
to him. He had been appointed to an office in Jersey no course of conduct can be pursued by the Government
of mere than 1,0001. a year, and consequently his over which we have not an immediate control through
the finances of the country. lam not at all surprised at
allowance ceased.
Sir J. TRELAWNY inquired bow lsng he had the conduct of the noble lord. It is the result of tile great
confidence which he has in himself, but I think late events
been in the War Department '?
Sir J. RA.MSDEN : Two years, I believe. (A. laugh). out ht to have served as a warning to him. The etate of
THE MILITIA. India at the present moment is one of the most striking
Mr. DISRAELI ceded the attention of the Premier evidences of the mistakes of the noble lord. Events are
to a notice in the London Gazette of the 14th of Jul, occurrnag there which involve the interests of England.
of an order in council dated the 25th of June, to too It we lose our empire in India—and we may lose it—
effect that the militia was not to be called out this year. (cries of "No, no !" from the Opposition)—l understand
At the time that order was signed the news of the late that exclamation, it is a thou ouehly English "No.
disastrous events in India had not been received. But (Cheers.) Na men can join in the feeling which dictates
what he wished to ask was, whether the publication of it more hearti'y than I do. You believe youzoelves able
that notice after the news had been received was not to meet even this great emergency, bat you will not
an inadvertence! deny that it is a great emergency. (Hear, hear ) I have
Lord PALMERSTON said there was no inadvertence. that confidence in my countrymen—in their indomitable
The notice was issued with full consideration, and for tea- spirit—that I have no doubt, in spite of the mistakes of
sons which/ he still held to be good ones. It was thought the noble lord, they will overcome the present difficulty.
unnecessary to call out the militia this year, as they had Nevertheless, I say the noble lord has mzde a great mi
been sufficiently drilled last year. He did not think the rake. I may even use a stronger word. India is now the
receipt or the news from India was any reason why they opprobium of the noble lord's administration. He has
shoolFi be called out. England was not engaged in a reduced India to its present position, and if we lose India
European war, and the militia were not required for we lose the world. My charge ageing the noble lord,
home defence. The only purpose that could be ga ned therefore, is not a small one. First, I say that he has in-
by oatog them out would be to facilitate enlisomeet, suited the House of Commons—that he has pursued the
wb Lebo however, would be a most expensive way of at- course of utterly passing it by—that he has declared war,
to ining that object. (Hear). undertaken an expedition, and made peace without ask-
THE PERSIAN WAR. ing your approval or consulting your wishes. He has acted
as if you were not in existence. The House of Commons is
Mr. ROEBUCK ruse pursuaut to notice to move his in the opinion of the noble lord an utter cipher. Such is
resolution condemnatory of the war in Persia being un the first charge I bring against the noble lord. The next
dertaken and prosecuted without the sanction conveyed is that be has chosen an occasion for thus treating the
by a vote of the house. He said, I wish, Sir, the retolu- House of Commons the most dangerous to England that
lion lam now about to move lied fallen into more able has occurred since the declaration of independence by
America. By a want of care, by a want of foresight,
hands than mine, for it appears to me that never in the by that sort of rashness which constant success en-
whole history of the House of Commons was a more im- genders, he has denuded India of her defences and thus
portant subject submitted to its consideration. Sir, we lsd to all the dangerous consequences that have occurred.
are now about to consider the conduct of an Adeninis- Far be it from me to take up the time of the house by
tration with regard to the House of Commons, and lam unnecessary observations. I move the resolution which
I have placed upon the paper with a frill knowledge of
prepared to say, Sir, that this conduct has been such its importance, with a full knowledge, too, of the vitu-
that, if allowed to pass without comment, it will go far peraton and sarcasm to which I may subject myself ;
tojeopardise the authority of this house and to diminish but, having before my eyes my daty as a representative
its influence with the country, on the very matteis of the people, I say that upon this question of the Per-
which
are peculiarly within its province. It may be Sian war
Commons th
onfeeV e lordlaed le. a beens The haene enemy
and learned gent e.
said that the prerogative of the Crown is to declare war man concluded byng moving : '
and -to make peace. Wide that proposition, Sir, I " That the war with Persia was declared, prosecuted,
entirely coincide ; but I say that this house and concluded without information of such tranoections
has a privilege with regard to that prerogative which it being communicated to Parliament; while expensive nr-
rnaments were equipped without the sanction of a vote of
ought not to desert, (Hear.) The Crown may declare this house.
war when it peaces, and if the Crown can carry on that " That it is tho opinion of this house that such conduct
war without application no the House of Conmons it is tends to weaken its just authority, and to dispense with its
perfectly justified in doing so ; but the moment it comes constitutional control over the fioances el the country, and
tolhis helm) to ask us to enable it to maintain that war, renders it requisiw for this house to express its strong re-
through the egency of money, then the whole war and probation of such a course of proceeding."
everything connected with it become subjects of corisi- Mr. AYRTON seconded the resolution.
deatieion for the House of Commons. It appears to me The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that this is peculiarly the mode by which the House of , that the speech of the hon. gentleman had been, with
c ornmona has arrived at its present position, and if one exception, confined to the notice on the paper,
Eegland is now distingui leible from the nations around namely, as to the manner in which the war bad ae,e
her by one thine more than another it is by this very conducted, and not to the merits of the war itself. He
power of the House of Commons. To that pow( r would begin by stating that, he had come to the house
we owe our liberty, to that liberty we owe our la:vs, prepared to hear the p hey and justice of the ear ques-
and to those laws we owe our happiness. If that tioned, and prepared to state the grounds on which ho-
power ghoul I ever be diminished, than, indeed, the tilities were commenced, but he did not feel justified in
just influence of this house will be diminished going tnto those matters now, as Wee hon. gentleman
also ; and the charge I bring against the noble had not questioned the policy of the war, but by his
lord at the head of the Government is this—that ho, silence seemed to admit it. The papers bad long been
being aso called Liberal, has done that with regard to on the table of the house, and it was not, theref. re,
the House of Commons which no minister-has ever yet necessary to wait fa• a committee of supply to bring it
dared to do—that the two Pit's, in the plentitudg of before the house. Those who had watched the
their power, did not dare to do what the noble lord has affairs of Central Asia during the last few years, would
done. And what is that? I will shortly describe what I know that it had been a cardival piece of our policy that
conceive to be the conduct of the noble lord. He has Herat should not tall into the hands of the Persians, and
y
laid upon the table of this house a book containing papers that was looked upon as a piece of national policy 'b
all
regarding our relations with Persia. Those papers begun nations. Persia was a weak power, while Russia o.er-
as early as the year 1851, and the very first of those shadowed her, and placed her in a state of serni-deP en-
papers refers to the Persian conduct with reference to three on Russia, indeed it was no refl-ction upon Persia
Herat. In proceeding iii the investigation of those pa- to say that it was a vassal of Russia, and guided by Rea-
pers we soon learn that the British Government supposed sin in its foreign relations. The British Government had
that the Prreian Government had designs upon Hsrat lately been engaged in a great conflict with the Russian
which were inimical to English interests. From 1851 empire, and it was not his wish to say a word that might
to 1857 negotiations were carried on with the Per.-i,„n revive asperities that had passed away, but looking to
Government,' and . not until December, 1856, dal the Central Asia, it was impossible not to tee that Russia
English Government think it requisite to take such step& and England bad rival interests which induced England
with regard to tee Government of Persia as should to maintein the independence of the Indian boundary.
lead to war. In December, 1356, this house was Undoubtedly there had been during the war with Rue.
not sitting, but in that month the Governor-General of sia, disagreements between our minister and the Persian
India issued a proclamation equivalent to a declaration Government, but they did not give rise to the war, al-
of war. No means were taken to call this house together, though they might have given rise to a suspension
and things went on. War was declared against Persie, of di
pro-
the disasttheners we are now suffering in Iru'ia. (Hear.) ceeded to say that the hon. and learned gentleman had
Our forces were taken from India and directed against stated that no previous Government had ever entered
Persia. I .am told—l do not know bow correctly—that upon a war without giving notice to Parliament ; but
the Government was warned on that occasion that de- let them look how far precedent and practice justified
nudiug India of the forces of England woul 1 endanger that statement. It theyi looked
to the occupation of
thin very exiesteoce of our Indian empire. I must call to Bushire and a 1838,that Karrackho would find no
the recollection of the house and of the noble lord the pre- such communication was made to Parliament. There
phecies—if I may so call them—of Sir C. Napier many was doubt of the prerogative of the Crown to declare se
years ago upon this matter. He pointed out to the Go- war, so that nothing could have been done beyond a
veer: money
anent of India, and through the Government of India mere communication to Parliament. No
to the Government of England, that there were cause" necessary to be asked for at the time, as the preliminary
which y
which should alarm all foreseeing Ministers a ith regard - expenses of the war were discharged
by
the Indian Gi:
to the army of India, and he took steps which bethought se rnenent. No step whatever was required
to be taken-
precautionary to prevent mischief arising on that occa- with regard to that house. The hon. gentleman bad
sion! Those steps incurred the displeasure of the then compared the Persian with the Russian war, but morally
Governor Ge neral, Lord Dalhousie. Sir C. Napier re- and constitutionally there was a great difference be-
signed, but his warning remained. Lord Dalhousie re- tween the two cases, one difference being that in
turned home, and Lord Cant ing went to India. lam the Russian war the funds had to be provided
told—l do not knqw how correctly—that the demands by that house, whereas in the Persian war,
made on him for forces to be directed towards Persia the preliminary expenses were defrayed by the
raised in Lord Canning's mind such alarm that he coin- Indian Government. The war was announced by
municated that alarm to the Government of this coon- her Majesty .on the opening of Pawiament, and he did
try, and not only did he do so, lout lam told that the not see bow Government could have taken an earlier
Commander-in-Chief did the same, and that the Govern- notice of the sunject. Looking at previous practice, and
ment of this country was fully aware of the danger likely the constitutional character of the case, ne could not
to arise if India were denuded of troops. I appeal to this understand what irregtarity or inconvenience there had
house, if there be a shadow of truth in that statement, been, or in what way there bail been any di-respect shown
whe• her this was not a very important matter. This to Parliament. (Hear, hear.) He would now pass to
• house has been called together on less important occa- that part of the hon. gentleman's speech, in which he
alone ; for let me say for this gnu-e that the empire o sought to connect the recent events in India with the
India is in fact the empire of Esgland—(hear)—that we late Persian expedition. He stated that the Government
- should not a low our empire in India to be destroys d had been warned against denuding India of her troops,
without making every effort which the people could but he (the Chancellor cf the Exchequer) was not aware
maeke to preserve it, because if conquered in Asia we of any such warning, and as far as his experience went
ar
red need to nothing in Europe. (Hear.) This, he did riot believe there had been any remonstrance on
then, was a very vital question to the empire of Eng- the part of the Indian Government. But was it true
and, and if the -
called together in Commonsa of Parliament were to be that there was any connection between the mutiny
occasion when they extraordinary manner, that was an in the Indian army and the witlithawal of the troops
ought to have been so ceded tog,- for the Persian expedition ? According to the best
ther. But the noble lord,
having
that confidence in accounts which had reached home the spirit of the
himself which a long series of successes in life has enabled mutineers was peculiar to Bengal and the
him to obtain, disregarded altogethera the existence of North-Western provinces, and did not at all prevail in
Parliament, and determined to
waccount. He therefore directed that wage war
war upon his own I the provinces of Madras and Bombay. In those per•
troops should be tions from which the troops were drawn there bad been
sent from India to Persia. They weresent.
undertaken. War was prosecuted. A battle wasW f
they thought March,
ebof
• Phad contended for. By this time the European regi-
, nients had returned to India, and there was no ground
• 1857. this house met, but no communication was inaio for connecting the mutiny at Delhi with a desire to
- "to this house. The not-Is lord, still holding on in tehocit wtheeakeen the English Government during the absence of
course which has distinguished his career—fury
. dif-
fident in himself, and prepared to conduct the ferer,htmay, arising as they did from circumstances as dif-
scowueledildeeconceived. He could not believe that
matter without the House of Commons—deter- the house countenance the suspicions the honour-
mined to conduct it without the House of Com- able gentleman had raised as to the connection of the
. , mono, and did conduct' it into a peace. And mutiny at Delhi and the Persian expedition. If the
the first real intimation that we have had of these trans- motion had been made when the papers were laid on
such, abeenaoutisoen
awouid never have entered
actions is the bill which is. this night to be presented. the table,
Whet is that bill? We learii that it amounts in the whole any one's head
th 1
rh,andoesbpuokcken)
see could have antici-
,BoCt,ooo/. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, with paled the results that had °recently occurred. But
, that dexterity which belongs to all Chancellors of the then the honourable gentlemanExchequer,He
f the
4 began with 500,000/ , but the last paper laid loss of our Indian empire not an improbable
gentleman
on the table ebtiws tbat our share' of the bill will be at thing. (Cries of no, no, from aWsI
. least 900,0001. But it tloes not etop there; 900,0001. is towed to hear that the hon. and learned
..
. • only an instalment, and I believe it will be found that repudiated the supposition. Juaging from the accounts
the expense of the war with Persia will amount to at I which had been received, be could not place the ier
• . least two millions of money. If ever the House of Conn- l hence of our Indian empire as an hypothesis, iforilase.
, . mewl had a right to complain it is upon WAS occasion. A looked to it as based upon a most sound foundation, and
' war has been undertekein A war bas been ,
prosecuted, ! denying the probability of his anticipations—admitting
Engegemerits haver actually been taking place between ' at the same time the gravity of evils which would de-
our troops and those of Persia. Peace has been concluded mud most anxious attention—he could not admit that

~-,-~-

the eoverrinient was at an reeponsibla, or that the hen.
stentleman's irlenuity would convince the b,use that
there was any connection between tie Persian expedi-
tion and recent events in India. (Hear, hear )
Mr. NI3BET, Navin;; bad some experience in India,
denied that the present revolt was to be attrihuted to
the Persian invasion. The real reasons he believed to

be two—the fir,t was, that the Bengal troops were re-
cruited from men of high caste, who would
fight, but would do nothing else ; and next, that the
European officers were withdrawn from the native regi-
ments into civil offices.

Mr. BAILLIE hoped this would not be turned into
an Indian debate. He proposed to discuss the policy
of the Persian war; and with regard to the question of
communication with Parliament, he reminded the house
that the provisional order for the sailing of the expedi-
tion was made in July last, while Parliament was sitting,
so that an intimation of the war might then have been
made. He pointed oat from the papers before the house
that before the war began Ferukh Khan offered to give
up all we asked, except to dismiss the Prime Minister.
For the dismissal of that Prime Minister, then, the war

was undertaken, and after gaining, as we are told, va-

nous successes, we agreed to a peace, giving up our
demand for the dismissal of the Prime Minister, and
even other points which Persia before the war was dis-
posed to concede. He then argued that the Aff4hatis
would in any case of war be fou❑d to be the natural
allies of Russia, while Persia had every interest in the
world to ally herself with us. It was madness to fling
away the friendship of such a people ; and, therefore,
unwilling as he was to embarra,s the Government at
such a moment, still he felt constrained by a sense of

duty to vole for the motion.
Lord BURY fully agreed with the principles of Mr.
Roebuck's motion, but he could not consent to vote Er
it, and so to embarrass the Government at this moment
of difficulty. He entered into detaile to show that Rus-
sia, even with Herat in her possession, could not invade
India, and therefore our alarm with respect to that
country was groundless. But he was rather di-posed
at the present moment to support the Government, who
deserved the greatest credit for their promptitude in the
present emergency with India, and especially for having
sent out a man as commander-in•chief who to the eye of
a hawk united the arm of a sergeant-major.
Mr. DANBY SEYMOUR defended the policy of
the Government, and taunted Mr. Roebuck and his sup-
porters with having never objected to the war till they
were called on to pay the bit.
Mr. WILLOUGHBY also mAintained that the in-
terests of Eugland were strongly bound up in keeping
Herat out of the hands of Persia, and though he
might not agree to all the steps adopted for that purpose,
yet this was not the time to censure them. Adverting.
to the state of India, he said there was no cause for un-
manly alarm, though he deprecated some of the discus-
sions that took place in this house with respect to it, and
particularly the discussion on the petition from the mis-

sionaries.
S.r F. W. WILLIAMS said that the great experience
which he had had with Eastern countries convinced him
of the strong desire manifested by Russia to get to India,
and in the course of his communication with all awes
of the East, the advance of Russia on India was the
theme of conversation and discussion. The policy of the
Persian war was, therefore, perfectly a sound one, and
the results of the late operations at Moharnmerati, one of
the most important and valuable to ens of Persia, would
not fail to be productive of the most beneficial results.
Mr. SHERIDAN supported the motion of the hon.
member for Sheffield.
Lord J. RUSSELL—There are two questions-before
the house, both of which have been discussed with great
calmness, and I, for one do not wish to alter the tone of
the discussion. One of the questions raised by the hon.
and learned member for Sheffield referred to the control
of this house over the finances of the country, the other
is the policy of the Persian war. With regard to the first
of these questions the gentleman who spoke last, and se-
veral who preceded him, and even the hon. and learned
member for Sheffield hheeself, who spoke with so much
ability on the question, have a little overlooked the pre-
cise facts of the case. With regard to the delay in the
production of the papers, I must say, that from Feb.
until that production, the house itself was a consenting
party. As soon as Parliament met communications took
place between Lord Cowley and Ferukh Khan, which be-
came the basis of negotiation E., and it then became a ques•
tion with the ministry whether it would be conducive to
the success of the negotiations to produce at that time pa-
pers e xpl armory of the causes of the Persian war. It was
their opinion that the production of the papers would em-
barrass the negotiations, but any member might have
made a motion for their production, and if successful, the
papers would no doubt have been produced. It was wis-
dom, in my opinion, in the house to refrain, and that
accounts for the whole period from the beginning of the
session down to the signature of the treaty of peace. It
may be said that they pushed reserve too far in not pro-
ducing the papers until the treaty had been ratified, but
every one knows that when that took place the house
was menaced with dissolution, and every one was think
ing more of the elections than of the treaty with Persia ;
and it must be admitted that the moment the treaty was
ratified the papers were produced. This explain'e the
greater portion of the delay ; but with regard to the for-
mer portion, I do not think that Ministers were altoge-
ther justified in not calling Parliament together at an
earlier period. I do not think th9.t. when orders were first
despatched to Bombay it would have been wise to pub-
blish our intentions by a discussion in Parliament ; but
when Nov. 1 came round, and the Governor-Generel of
India had by their desire declared war, I thick it would
have been right to come down to Parliament with expia-
nati.ms. But when 'reflect that this is the month of July,
and that the delay complained of took place some weeks
befere Feb. 3, I think the charge se grave as to justify
the house in coming to a resolution. (Hear.) With respect
to the second question raised, viz., the negotiations, I
own I cannot see that it is at all proved that we might
not have had as geod a convention rot we have obtained
without any declaration of war. Lord Clarendon repeat-
edly declared that the sine qua non of negotiation wao the
dismissal of the Persian Prime Minister, a most extracr-
dieary demand, but one that was not peswevered in. Ti
that demand had not been pressed, Lord Stratford bad :n
his handsacoenplete compliance with all the demands then
made, a compliance fully Al coral lete, as the hon. mem-
ber for Inverness had proved, as that which had been ob-
tained as the result of the war. I cannot but think, on
this part of the subject, that her Majesty's Government
were not justified in going to ear without being fully
satisfied that the objects which they deemed essential t ,
the honour and interests of the country could not be ob-
tained without it. It has been said that all means of ne
gotiation were in the first instance exhausted, but he did
not prove his assertion, nor is it to be proved out of the
napere. A gallant friend of mine says he found on the
frootiere of Persia and Prussia much speculation as to a
Russian invasion of India, and on that ground he justi-
fied our pact, towards Persia. I must ray I never knew
a shorter cut iu logic than that taken by my ben. and
gallant friend. lam quite ready to admit all he says of
his own authority, as it would be a very natural subject
for political theorists to speculate on the future destinies
of England and Russia, but that, therefore, we should
conclude that our policy towards Persia had been sound,
is, I must confess, rather too sudden a leap for me.
(Hear.) Taking his pre niece, I should have thought
our Lest policy would have been to conciliate Persia. It
may be said that they had violated a treaty, but then the
convention with regard to Herat was of a vague and un-
defined character, and there were many loopholes of
which advantage might be taken. One thing is tolerably
clear, that if the Governor of Herat ma-3e incursions into
the Persian territory, the Shah could not have been pre-
vented taking steps in retaliation. The Persian Govern.
ment was ready to acknoa ledge the independence of He-
rat ; and if it had not been for the trumpery quarrel got
up at our miseion, the probability is that by. the usual
diplomatic means we should have come to an understand•
ing, and that the subsequent war might have been pre-
vented. 'The war may cost a million, perhaps two, it
may have been imprudent to take the troops away from
India—l shall not pretend to say so, but at the same time
these wars disturbed men's minds, and gave rise to those
vast speculations which are natural to the Eastern ima-
gination. It seems to me that when you obtained peace
with Russia that was the time to commence a general
policy of peace. We should then have been as friendly
with Russia as with any other power in Europe, and
have endeavoured, as ranch as possible, to tranquil-
lige the world, which bad been disturbed by our con-
test. Having so concluded that war, I cannot but think
that it is our interest, and the interest of the world, that
the peace which has been established should be main-
tained. Our interests ?vend all over the civilised world
—there is no part of any sea—in the east, in the west,
in the north, or in the soutn—in which we have not
some interest more or less considerable, and where we
have not sometimes unfortuna' ely chosen an agent, in
whose hands large powers are necessarily entrusted. It
is impossible to avoid trifling quarrels arising at times at
some one or other of these places, and the only way to
keep peace is to endeavour to smooth down the-e differ-
ences as they arise, and to instruct the agents to bring
them, if possible, to a rational and speedy conclusion,
and that while they did not sacrifice any of our engage-
ments or our great interests, to recollect that it is nei-
ther our aim nor wish to inflame those differences and
those quarrels, but rather to avoid and put an end to
I them. (Hear ) These sentiments which I have ventured
to express are, I trust, not adverse to those which both
the house and the Government entertain. (Hear.) I
regret that the war with Persia and these hostilities in
Caine. should have made it necessary now to vote this
sum of money—which, however, I ate persuaded every
hon. member present will be ready to vote—but in the
hope that it will be the desire and the object of the Go-
vernment to do all in their power, without sacrificing
the honour and interests of the country, to pressrve that
peace which we have obtained at so much cost.
Mr. KEIL opposed the resolution.
Mr. WALPOLE contended that Ministers bad com-
mitted a grave infringement on the privileges of this
house, and showed by a comparison of dates that the
war was determined on before Parliament separated last
year. He thought this was not a matter to be lightly
versed over by Parliament, and lee hoped Ministers
would give them the assuracc that this case would not
be drawn into a precedent. He was unwilling to do any-
thing that would weaken the hands of the Govern•
ment at the present crisis ; and he was inclined to evade
giving any opinion on the motion by voting for going
into committee, but he would do this on the distinct
protest that he altogether disapproved of their conduct.
Col. SYKES opposed the motion.
Mr. V. SMITH entered at great length into the his-
tory of the transactions connected with the Persian was,
and contended that if Ministers bad announced their in
tentions to Parliament in July last year, it would have
been a warning to Persia, and enabled them to stand on
the defensive. With respect to the war itself, he denied
Mr. Baillie's areertion that the war was caused by the
refusal of the Shah of Persia to give up his Mini6tcs.