The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-04 00:00:00

105
101 2

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS.-(YESTERDAY.)
ROYAL COMMISSION.

The Royal Assent was given by commission to the
following bills :—The Consolidated Fund (8,000,0001.)
Insurers of Lices (Abatement of Income-tax) Confirm-
ance ; Ministers Money (Ireland) ; Court of Exchequer
(Ireland) ; Calcutta and South Eastern Railway ; Ports-
month Railway ; North-Eastern Railway (capital) ;Dun-
hart ln Water; Islington Parish ; Brighton Hove ; Preston
Constant Water Service; Exeter and Exmouth Railway;
Cork Gas ; Kidegrove Market ; Great Yarmouth Brit-
tania Pier ; Bridgwater Market and Fairs; Waterford
and Tramore Railway; Dubliii and Wicklow Railway;
and Scot scraig Estate.
The Royal Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor,
the Earl of Harrowby, and Lord Monteagle.
Their lordships adjourned during pleasure.

The LORD CHANIELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.

The Earl of DARTMOUTH presented a petition from
Bridgewater praying that corn might be sold at one de-
finite weight throughout the country.
Lord BELPER presented a petition from North-
ampton in favour of the .Tewish Disabilities Bill.
SECOND READINGS.
On the motion of Lord REDEBDALE the following bills
were read a second time :—Carea'a Estate, and Strat-
ford-upon-Avon Railway.
THIRD READINGS.

The following bills were severally read a third time
and passed :—Shepberd's Disabilities Removal, Wilm.
ston and Lawton Road, Fraserbury Barbour._

THE RATE OF EXCHANGE IN INDIA..

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH called attention to
the alteration made in the rate of exchange to which the
East I❑dia Company are parties, in reference to the
reception of funds from this country, an an-
nouncement to that effect having appeared in the pub-
lic newspapers. The alteration was a mere reduction
in the rate of exchange of one farthing, being about 2i
in the pound. The alteration would come in proper.
tionate reduction in the price of bar silver and dollars.
It might be that the East India Company bad adopted
that course with a view of checking the export of silver
from this country, which had increased to a great extent.
But whether such was the purpose, or whether it was for
obtaining a larger amount of funds by offering more fa-
vourable terms for them, the effect would be precisely
the same. TLe Indian Government remitted money to
England in the following way :—Money was advanced
in India upon the receipt of goods hypothecated to the
Company, and it was transmitted hither in the shape of
bills. If those bills should happen not to be paid, it
was an act of bankruptcy. If, however, they were paid,
the danger of the Government at present was very great
in paralysing the operations of commerce. The revenue
of India was subject to great danger. In the first place
there was great danger in the non•collection of imposts.
There was further danger from being unable to
transmit the remaining funds to this country. He should
be glad to know the course the Government intended to
pursue under these circumstances.
Earl GRANVILLE—The Government were fre-
quently indebted to the noble earl for his suggestions.
The subject alluded to by the noble earl had not
escaped the notice of her Majesty's Government.
There was no fear to apprehend a total drain in that
country. He assured the noble lord the Government
would closely watch the matter, and take care that the
finances of the country were kept in a safe and healthy
condition.
IRISH REPRESENTATIVE PEERS.

The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the following
resolution :—That all petitioners claiming a right
to vote at the election of representative peers
for Ireland, by virtue of peerages under
which a right to vote had been admitted by the House
of Lords of the United Kingdom, be referred to the
Lord Chancellor or Lord Keeper of the Great Seal to
consider and report thereupon, and the Lord Chancel-
lor or Lord Keeper is upon such reference to consider
the matter of the said petition, and to make his report
thereupon to the house.
After a few observations from Lord REDESDALE
the motion was agreed to.
THE MURDER OF MR. PRICE.

Earl TALBOT rose to move for the production of
correspondence relative to the murder of the late Mr.
John Price, of Melbourne, inspector of convicts. He
did not think it necessary to go into the details of this
most barbarous transaction. Suffice it to say that Mr.
Price was among the convicts in the execution of his
duty when they set upon him and stoned him to death.
From the best information which he could obtain he
thought there was no doubt that this offence was the re-
sult of a plan among the convicts, and that they were
induced to carry this plan into execution by the false
and morbid sympathy which bad been excited by the
case of a man 'lamed Melville, who had committed a
murder, but was acquitted on a legal point. The jury
at the inquest found a verdict of wilfol murder against
fifteen persons, and appended to it an opinion con-
curred in by all but two of their number, that
" one cause of the unfortunate occurrence has
been the misplaced sympathy exhibited by a portion
of the public, which has by some reason become known
to the prisoners." He thought that this showed a case
for investigation by the executive Government, in order
that provision might be made that the men should be
properly guarded and kept from influences such as these.
This unfortunate relative of his had been 15 years in
Norfolk Island, where his character was unimpeach-
able, and where he performed his duties with great
firmness, but with great kindness. When the convicts
~,csvere removed from Norfolk Island the same duties of
Fiiiispection were imposed upon him as he had formerly
discharged in that colony. The feeling which existed
with regard to this matter was shown by a letter which
appeared in one of the Melbourne papers, in which it
was stated that the convicts had obtained some copies of
the report of the citizens' committee, which was a self-
constituted body, which professed to inquire into the state
of the prisons, and also some of the journals containing
the report of a public meeting at which Mr. Price was
held up to public indignation as a oruel monster. The
result of this was the production of much insubordination
among the prisoners, who alternately threatened and
jeered the warders, reminding them of the citizens' com-
mittee, and threatening them with public indignation.
At the inquest Mr. Blandford, the superintendent of the
Lysander bulk, said that on the day of the murder Mr.
Price's manner was very kind—almost fatherly. Since
the Melville business they had had a very difficult time ;
discipline had been relaxed. Mr. Price had made con-
cessions, and the officers had lost control over the men.
On the day of the murder Mr. Price was firmer than
usual in refusing further concessions, although he did it
in the mildest manner. It was stated that the officers
were unarmed, and the reason given for for this was thi-t
as there were only 12 or 13 men to control 150 or 160
of these desperate 'ruffians, they were afraid that
if they carried arms the convicts would seize them
and turn them against themselves. He thought that the
facts which he had stated were quite sufficient to justify
him in moving for the production of this correspondence
and in asking the Government to give an assurance that
the matter would be inquired into and justice done to
the memory of his late lamented relative, for whose
widow and six orphans he was glad to learn that the
colonial Legislature had made a handsome provision, and
who had an additional claim upon this country owing to
his having married a near relative of Sir J. Franklin.
The noble earl concluded by moving for the correspon-
dence.

Earl GRANVILLE was sure that their lordships
would entirely approve the language in which the noble
earl had spoken of this diabolical outrage. The Govern-
ment had not the slightest objection to the production of
this correspondence, which would give the details of this
most cowardly murder, and would also exhibit the cir-
cumstances which had led to it.
TRANSFER OF LAND.
_ _

Lord BROUGHAM rose to call ibeir lordships' at-
tention to the ruinous expense imposed by the law with
regard to the transfer of real property. He bad the
honour of presenting a petition from Mr. Fawcett, a
conveyancer of great eminence in the county of Cumber-
land, who, in conjunction with the late Mr. Aglionby,
had been the author and originator of the Summary
Jurisdiction Act. Mr. Fawcett in his petition detailed
the great grievances under which landed proprietors and
those who wished to become purchasers of laud laboured
in consequence of the state of the law respecting the
transfer of real property ; he recommended a general
measure for the registration of tides, and he offered in
support of it the results of his own experience. He states
ala9tho. words;The deed
there of
w transfere,en od e ie n e
r noi
p.
that in one of the largest manors in the county, contain.
ing some 400 or 500 tenements, of which be had been
the steward for 30years, nearly every tenemt at had been
transferred
case contained
tions of parcels beyond the number of the tenement in the
manor-book. During the whole time that be had been
by saolree tohr death.
m
steward of that manor there never had been a question
rased of boundary or identification of parcels, and the
expense of transfer, whether it was of one or 100 acres,
instead of been 6001. or 7001., had never amounted to
more than 7s. This proved, at the very least, that a great
and salutary change might be made in the law in respect
to the conveyance of laud. The Master of the -Rolls, in
giving evidence before the commission on th a subject,
said that our system of conveyancing, and, indeed, our
whole law relative to the transfer of real property, was
one which might have been devised expressly to render
land as little an article of commerce, and as littl ovendible
and purchasable as possible. Bills were sent down from
this house on the subject in the years 1852 and 1853, and
in the latter year the subject was referred to a select
committee of the other house. That committee recom-
mended that a commission should be appointed to in-
quire into the whole subject. That was done, and the
commission had just presented a report containing a
mass of valuable information, and a number of very
useful suggestions. Nothing could be worse than the
present state of the law on this subject. Land, instead of
being as easily transferable as bank stock, was, owing to
law,
the principle and practice of our some
the most difficult
1 i
article of transfer. In fact, it was in OW cases actually
impossible to transfer it. He therefore heartily rejoiced
to bear that the commission Lad recommended the in-
troduction of two most important measures with re pect
to this subject, and he should be glad to learn from the
noble and learned lord on the woolsack that these mea-
sures were in a state of forwardness. It was most judi-
cious of the commissioners to recommend that along with
a measure for the registration of titles, there should also
be a measure for the improvement of the law respecting
the transfer of land. Generally speaking these important
measures would meet with no great opposition. There
might be some difficulty with respect to the registration
of titles, from the want of the pro per charts and maps. The
Select Committee had found that a great difficulty. But
the Tithe Commissioners possessed a great body of maps
and charts, as did the municipal corporations, so that he
would fain hope there might be found a sufficient body of
maps and charts to render legislation effectual. He

begged to direct their lordships' attention to the working
of the Encumbered Estates Court in Ireland. In the
period of five years ending in 1854 no fewer than 2,400
cases were tried and disposed of by that Court. Of these
1,448 terminated in sal-, and the value of the properly
sold amounted to 14,133,0001., there having been given
in each case an absolute indefeasible Parliamentary title.
The cost of the whole proceedings was exceedingly light,
but if it had been much larger it would have been as no-
thing compared with the incalculable advantages obtained
under the act.
So much were these advantages appre-
ciated that in many instances frauds were committed in
order to bring property under the operation of the act.
Perhaps they might be called pious frauds, though on
that point he was not called to give an opinion ; but at
the same time, he might say that as he did not believe
there was such a thing as a white lie, so neither did be
believe there could be a pious fraud. But, at any rate,
frauds were committed. People trumped up debts—
signed bills, for example, when there was no transactions,
and made it appear that there encumbrances on pro-
perty, so as to enable them to come within the scope
and the advantages of the Encumbered Estates Court.
Now, why should inestimable benefits like these be con-
fined to encumbered estates ? He thought there ought
to be an extension of the Encumbered Estates Act to all
cases—that principle to be carried out by proceeding in
the Court of Chancery, where a modification in the pro-
cedure now in force ought to take place. An indefeasible
title was given to all land purchased and sold under the
Ordnance Department, compensation being given if
within a certain period a claim was put forward for the
land ; and he saw no reason why they should not go
across the channel to France for an example of legislation
on this point. In that country the period of "limitation, '
as it was called, was 10 years, whereas in our own coun-
try it was 30, and in many cases 40 years. It was no
doubt suspicious to be asked to copy foreign institutions,
but when those institutions were found to have produced
great good, as the laws regulating the transfer of land in
Ireland, in France, Belgium, and America had done,
it would he most improper not to avail ourselves of the
examples which those countries afforded. He hoped the
noble and learned lord on the woolsack would be able to
assure the house that bids upon this subject were in a
forward state, and would be speedily laid before Parlia-
ment. He would only add, that it was of the greatest
importance that those who were intrusted with the
drawing up of titles to property should possess a com-
plete and accurate knowledge of their profession, and
therefore he trusted that the Inns of Court would see
the necessity of requiring all persons to undergo a coin-
pulsory examination before being called to the bar.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the subject referred
to by the noble and learned 1 ,rd was as difficult as it
was important, and had not escaped the attention of the
Government. Soon after he received the Great Seal, in
1853, he introduced a bill which tended to facilitate the
transfer of land. The bill passed their lordship's house,
but did not become law, it having been referred to a
committee of the other house, which recommended the
appointment of a commission to consider the whole sub-
ject. A Royal Commission was accordingly issued in
1853, but, although the commissioners had not been
idle, they were not able to present a report until the
present year. In the meantime, however, he had pre-
pared a measure which he believed would be found in
harmony with the recommendations of the commission-
ers, and that bill he hoped soon to be able to lay upon
the table of their lordships' house. One of the greatest
complications which were found in dealing with landed
property arose from the imperfect manner in which
charges upon such property were made. The bill to
which he referred proposed to substitute a more simple
for the present complicated system of mortgages and
judgments, and to allow a declaration to be made of
any charge given to any person upon any particular pro-
perty, and instead of there being contained in the same
instrument powers of sale, of appointing receivers, &e.,
as now, he proposed theta mere chargeupon land should
contain all the provisions now to be found in mortgage
deeds. He also proposed that the Court of Common Pleas
should establish a regis.er of mortgagee, so that any one
about to purchase or lend money upon land might ascer-
tain exactly the charges which were upon it. He feared
that the varied nature of cur settlements and the various
uses to which land was applied in this country rendered
it chimerical to expect that the transfer of land could

ever be made as easy as the transfer of bank stock, but
he thought, nevertheless, that great improvements might
be effected, and he cou!d assure their lordships that dur-
ing the ensuing recess the subject should receive his
fullest attention.

Lord CAMPBELL expressed a hope that the laws
relating to real property would soon be amended. He
had hoped that he might go down to posterity as the
author of a Generi,l Registration Act, but that honour
was denied him. He rejoiced to find, however, that the
subject was again taken up, and he should certainly give
it iris most earnest support.
Earl FITZ WILLIAM suggested that in addition to
establishing a new form of conveyance all other forms
should be rendered absolutely illegal. Without an en-
actment of that kind, any measure which might be
passed would fail to cure the evil. He did not think
that it would be easy, even if desirable, to transfer land
with the same facility as bank stock.
The subject was then allowed to drop.
ST. JAMES'S PARK.
The Earl of MALMESBURY understanding that
there was to be a Council that evening at the Palace, at
which noble lords opposite were probably anxious to be
present, woule postpone his motion on the subject of St.
James's Park to a future day.
SALE OF OBSCENE ROOKS, &c., PREVENTION

BILL.
Lord' CAMPBELL regretted that he could not follow
the noble earl's example, and postpone this bill, but he
feared if he did not bring it forward that evening there
would be no hope of carrying the measure during this ses-
sion. When he moved the second reading he was much
surprised at the remarks made by, and the opposition he
met with from his noble and learned friend opposite, and he
made up his mind at the moment to abandon the bill
altogether; but since that he had received such strong
solicitations to proceed with it from various members of
that house, from many clergymen of all denominations,
medical men, fathers of families, and from young men
who them-elves had been inveigled into these recep-
tacles of abomination, and suffered most lamentable con-
sequences from their indiscretion, that he felt it his duty
to bring the measure again under their lordships' con-
sideration, and having made various alterations in it to
meet the objections advanced on the second reading he
hoped it would now meet with their approbation. He
had no desire to interfere with books, or pictures, or
prints, such as his noble and learned friend (Lord Lynd-
burst) had described. The keeping, or the buying, or
the liking, of such things must always be left to the
taste of individuals. It was not a subject for law that
persons designedly manufactured such things as the bill
did refer to with the intention of corrupting the public
morals—it was necessary for the law to interpose and
save the public from the contamination that such things
were calculated to produce. He now knew more cer-
tainly than he did before that there were receptacles for
the sale of lewd books and prints, and that the most
lamentable effects were the consequence, and which the
present state of the law was altogether insufficient to
meet. An indictment might be brought, but the con-
viction acted as an advertisement of the place where
such publications were to be obtained, and the result
was to increase the sale. The only remedy was to give
a right—(acoompanied, of course, with such safeguards
as should prevent abuse)--to search for these immoral
books and prints, and to seize them. He did not pro-
pose to create any new offence a misdemeanour—as it
was, he proposed to give additional facilities for dis-
covering the perpetrators of it and bringing them to
justice. He bad modified the bill in a manner that
he trusted would relieve it from any further objec-
tion. It consisted originally only of two clauses ;
one empowering the justice, upon an affidavit being
made that there was reason to suspect that these pub-
lications were kept for sale or exhibition at a par-
ticular place, to issue his warrant to search and to seize
The other clause gave a power to the Chief Commissioner
of Police, on reasonable ground, to issue a warrant for
the same purpose. He confessed he did not think the
liberty of' the subject would have been in any great dan-
ger if, in such cases, the same power was given to the
police of this metropolis which the police of every other
capital in Europe possessed. That was, however, ob-
jected to by his noble and learned friend, and be (Lord
Campbell) was most reluctantly compelled to abandon that
part of the bill, and to accept the bill as be could get
it, on the principle that halt a loaf was better than, no
bread. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) He proposed
also to amend the first clause, by requiring that the com-
plainant should make affidavit that he had reason '• to be-
lieve" such books and prints were kept in store for the
purposes of saleor exhibition at a particularplace, instead
of that he had reason " to suspect," and that he should
set forth the grounds of his belief, whereupon the justice,
if satisfied with such grounds, should issue his
warrant ; that was if he was satisfiedP there were suffi-
cient grounds for believing that there were such books
and prints for sale, the sale or exposure of which would
amount to a misdemeanour at common law. Further,
he required that the magistrate should not only be satis-
fied that they were such books as would amount to a
misdemeanour, but a misdemeanour prosecutable by in-
dictment.
Lord LYN DEW aST—..kre those all the changes ?
Lord CAMPBELL—There were others, but they
were all in the form of safeguards. He concluded byy
moving the committee on the bill.
The house went into committee accordingly, and the
clauses wAre agreed to.

The Sites for Workhouses Bill and Charitable Uses
Bill were read a second time.

The Grand Juries (Ireland) Act (1836) Amendment
Bill, the Turnpike Trusts Arrangement Bill, and the
Manly Borough Incorporation Bill were severally read
a third time and paeaed.
Tie Militia (Ireland) Act (1854) Amendment Bill
passed through committee.
The Dulwich College Bill and the Oxford University
Bill Were reported with amendments.
Their lordships adjourned at a quarter•past 7 o'clock

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The Svzhams took the chair at four o'clock.
_tine.
The Lords Amendments to the Forth and Clyde J
tion Railway and Saint Philip's Church (Liverpool)
Bills
were considered and agreed to.
The London Gas
politan Cattle Market ; Light Company (Capital).; Metro-
North
R„ada ; Reading Railways Level Drainage ; Orkney
Railway
Salisbury and Yeovil Railway ; South _Eagterr
Railway (Greenwich Junction to Dartford, &c.), Swan-
sea Harbour Trust and Swansea Dock. Company, Vic toriaand West of Fife Mineral Railway bills wen
Swan-
read. a third time and passed.
The Bourne and Essendine Railway, Islington Parisi .
Acta Amendment; Eliyinnoy Railway; Tweed Fisheries;
Lancaster and Carlisle and Ingleton Railway ;

Thames and Medway Conservancy Bills were further
considered and ordered to he read a third time.
Tne Hereford Cathedral Restoration Bill was read a
second time.

THE THAMES AND MEDWAY CONSERVANCY

BILL.

Sir J. GRAHAM called the attention of the house
to this bill, which proposed to deal with the
question that had been a long time in dispute between the
Corporation of London and the Crown, relative to waste
spots on the embankments of the Thames. The bill pro-
posed to deal with two points of great public import-
ance, viz., the constitution of the body of the conser-
vators ; and, secondly, as to the funds to be raised
from shipping by that body. He was of opi-
nion that the conservancy body, instead of being
nominated, as was proposed by the bill, by a
close body, should be elected by those who had to
pay the due,, and, secondly, that dues should not be le-
vied upon shipping, and should not be exacted to a greater
extent than shipping purposes required. He asked whe-
ther the recommendation of the Board of Trade were not
to the proposed constitution of the former, and read ex-
tracts from the report of the Board of Trade showing
that the corporation of London would possess greater
powers under the formation of the conservancy body
than the Government. In reference to the second point,
the right hon. baronet also read extracts from reports
of the Board of Trade, and said that the bill would
not carry out the recommendation of the Board of Trade
for the reduction of the dues if any surplus remained
to be carried out.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that no departure of the principle laid down in the re-
port of the London Corporation Committee had been
assented to by the Government. The only variation
that had been made was one of detail, and not of prin-
ciple. The dispute between the Government and the
Corporation of London was with reference to the right
to pieces of waste land between high and low water. The
Corporation claimed it as conservatories of the Tharues,and
appled the funds to the conservancy of the river, and
the Government claimed the bed and shores of the
river between high and low water mark as belonging to
the Crown. The right hon. gentleman proceeded to de-
tail at considerable length the disputes between the cor-
poration and the Government relative to this matter,
which it was attempted to settle in 1846, and what had
been done subsequently towards that object. The board
was to consist of six members of the corporation,
three to be appointed by Government and two by
the Trinity-house, which, he thought, would give
the Government a fair preponderance, because he con-
sidered more weight ought to be given to the persons
nominated by Government than to their members. If
the Corporation of London were found to act improperly,
the matter would be reconsidered by the Government
with a view to its alteration.

Mr. L. KING moved the adjournment of the debate
till that day week.

After some remarks from Mr. W. WILLIAMS,
Mr. LABOUCHERE resisted the motion for the
adjournment of the debate. The bill had been referred
to a select committee and thoroughly examined, and the
whole of the facts were known to the house. He was
still of the opinion he had formerly expressed that a tax
levied in a given port upon shipping should be applied
to the shipping purposes of that port, and be under the
controul of a separate body.
Sir D. L. EVANS asked what amount of taxation
would be conceded to the corporation under this bill.
and expressed an opinion that no greater taxes should
be levied on the shipping of the port than was ne-
cessary for its conservancy. Several important ques-
tions were involved in this bill, and he should sup-
port the hon. and learned baronet, the member for
Carlisle, for an adjournment.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
it was not proposed, by this bill, to give new power
to tax shipping. The present navigation fund was in
arrears 2,8441., and he thought it was not likely that
the income would be increased.

Mr. HENLEY approved of the constitution of the
proposed board, and expressed an opinion that adjourn-
ing the debate would be injurious to the parties inte-
rested. He thought this bill proposed a satisfactory
arrangement, considering the right of the respective
parties were i❑ dispuLe.

Sir J. GRAHAM would not press for a division, but
wait till the further stage of the bill. In the meantime
he advised hon, members to read the reports of the Board
of Trade in reference to this subject. If he read the bill
rightly, there was a new principle in it for taxing ship-
ping between Putney and Teddington, and an appropri-
atlon of the surplus, to which he also objected. It also
dealt with matters relative to the coal and corn duties.
He proposed that the bill should not be advanced a
stage, but that it should stand over, and the matter con-
sidered before its third reading.
Sir G. GREY said it was not a Government bill, but
arrangements should be made to meet the views of the
house.

Sir J. SHELLEY suggested that the third reading
of the bill should stand over till this day week. He would
then recommend the withdrawal of the amendment.
Sir J. DUKE defended the conduct of the Corporation
of London in introducing this bill.
Sir G. GREY said that no private bill would be re-
ceived after Wednesday next by the House of Lords.
He suggested that the third reading should stand over
tilt Tuesday.
The amendment was withdrawn, and the third reading
fixed for Tuesday next.