The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-29 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON; SATURDAY tirilltNlNG, JUNE 29.7 MI.

as well as the higher scientific branches, was directed by
the officers who compose i the Council on Military Educa-
tion. The attention of the Secretary of State for War
would be directed to the subject of examination required in
the case of Engineer s and Artillery officers.
After a few words from Sir F. SMITH,
Mr. WILLIAMS asked whah2r the 200 cadets at the
Royal Military College at Woolwich paid a sufficient sum
of money for their education and clothing ?
Mr. BARING replied that they paid a fair proportion of
the expenses.
Mr. WYLD called attention to the permanent character
of the votes for the survey. He did not find fault with the
present management of the survey, as one of the most dis-
tinguished men in Europe was at the head of it. The Ord-
nance Survey commenced in 1781, and, including military
pay, had cost upwards of £2,000,000. The area of England
was 58,000 square miles, of Ireland 30,000, and of Scotland
33,000, making together 121,000 square miles. The area of
France, including Corsica,was 201,000 square miles. France
commenced her survey at the same time and had completed
one .third of it ; she had completed nearly 100,000 square
miles of the enlarged survey and one-third of the cadastral
survey. The cost had been only about £1,200,000, and he
could not account for the difference, except by the English
survey having become a permanent department. At this
moment a large portion of Scotland was unsurveyed, and
he thought the house ought to require the director of Ord-
nance to complete the whole survey of these islands before
commencing any new work. (Hear.) He held that the
. expenditure for the topographical survey was an utter waste
Gf public money. The topographical department entered
into competition with private persons, and sold maps at less
than cost price. He was afraid that the publication of some
maps might lead to inconvenience, and, possibly, to political
difficulties. Before the Italian war, the Austrian Govern-
ment had a new survey of Lombardy made, and refused to
supply copies of the maps. But the topographical depart-
ment made a private copy of the maps, and published them
at is. a sheet. France could not get the maps from Austria,
' but the topographical department supplied the Fren,ch Go-
vernment with some 500 copies. He did not propose to
r reduce this vote, but he wished to call attention to these
facts.

Mr. BARING said the publishing trade of London were
permitted to sell the ordnance maps of the topographical
department at a profit of twenty-five per cent. Some of the
maps were prepared for the confidential information of the
Government.
Mr. WYLD said that only within the last few days a
map of the fortifications at Fort Pickens had been issued,
and that very often these maps were published at a price
under first cost.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of £24,300, for rewards for military services,
General LINDSAY said that this vote was given to a
number of very eminent military men, who had rendered
essential service to their country. But there were 18 or 20
generals, about 70 years of age each, who had served in the
Peninsular war, and who were very little removed from po-
verty in consequence of their only being on half-pay since
1826, and he certainly thought the services rendered by
these men, extending, in some instances, to upwards of 50
years, were entitled to some consideration at the hands of
the War Department.
Mr. BARING said that every consideration had been
given to the claims of all officers, and, amongst others, to
those of the generals to whom the hon. and gallant gentle-
man had just referred.
The vote was agreed to.
On the vote of £78,600 for payment of general officers,
General LINDSAY called attention to the case of the
general officers who had received their rank as generals in
1853 and 1857. The committee had recommended that they
should receive pay from the date at which they became
general officers, and he wished to know why they had only
received pay from the date of the report of the committee.
Mr. BARING said that this matter was one rather •f
boon than of regret ; the Treasury had begun to pay their
officers from the date of the report.
The vote was then agreed to.
£199,649 reduced and retired allowances agreed to.
£181,367 pensions to widows of officers agreed to.
The remaining votes for the service of the army were
then agreed to.
Mr. PEEL proposed a vote of £750,000 for expenses and
salaries in Customs Department.
Mr. HENNESSY wished to know what peculiar urgency
there was that rendered it necessary to go on with this vote
at so late an hour (20 minutes to 12 o'clock).
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the reason why it was desirable to go on with the vote was
simply this, that time was pasting away, and unless some
progress was made with public business it would be difficult
to wind up the session.
After some discussion the vote was agreed to.
On the vote of £2,050,000 for expenses and salaries for
the Post-office,
Sir S. NO RTHCOTE said that what had been done in
former years was being done now, viz., that the Post-office
asked for more money than they wanted, and Government
took a vote for less than the Post-office asked. That was
a locse manner of conducting business.
After a few words of explanation from the CHANCEL-
LOR of the EXCHEQUER,
Mr. A. SMITH proposed to reduce the vote by £SO,OOO.
Ultimately the vote was agreed to, and the house re-
sumed.