The Sun.
London, England, 1857-07-17 00:00:00

Liol4/30Nt

1,7111.04.1 e EVE-ttIiNtJULT

...
The truth wits' that at eollitrintinspla Perekb Khan
had no power tee treat, and was the first to break off
negotiations when be found that the Persian expedition
had sailed. The peace we had concluded, he maintained,
was an essentially good one ; Persia herself was satisfied
with it ; our viewer was strikingly extuiplified in the war,
and be believed Persia wool I henceforth attach lit rseif
to England rather than to Russia.
Mr. GLADSTONE -aid the question before the house
was one of extraordinary gravity and difficulty. He was
not disposed to omit from his consideration the verdict
that bad been given by the constituencies in favour of
the present Government, because the noble lord at the
head of the Government had a right to urge that those
acts complained of must have been under the review of
the people during the last election, and approved of by
them. Ile (Mr. Gladstone) was deeply convinced of the
value of the privileges of the house over the Govern-
ment through the estimates, and that withoutthem there
was no guarantee for the honour and glory of this coun-
try. He took an unfavourable view of the question, end
was sceptical of the dogmas that had been advanced in
the course of the debate, and of the importance attri-
buted to the position of Herat. (Hear.) It was not by
such conduct as Lad been pursued in this war that the
honour of England was to be consolidated. A connec-
tion in some degree might be presumed to exist between
what bad occurred in Persia and India, but he did not
think it was a'queetion for consideratitea in that debate.
He dissented from the cours t that had been adopted by
the Government with respect to Herat, but he admitted
they had only given effect to what might be considered
traditional ideas. He contended that the Government
had not given a satisfactory answer to the question—for
what we went to war ? We went to war for objects
that were found unattainable, and as soon as that was
discovered we make fresh demands. The right hon.
gentleman the President of the Board of Control had
stated that we did not make the dismissal of the Persian
ambassador an ultimatum, but the contrary was the
fact, and the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) read
exrracts from the blue hook to show that such was the
case. Who was it that urged the breaking out of hos.
tilities for not going on with the negotiations ? Why,
not Feruk Khan, but Lordh Stratford himself ; and yet
at that time Ferukh Khan had conceded more than we
had since obtained by treaty. So much for the Persian
war. There then remained the constitutional question,
and upon that question' the allegations of the hon. and
learned member for Sheffield had not been met. The
right hon. gentleman who bad just sat down had referred
to Indian precedents ; but these precedents ought to
arouse the jealousy of the house, because the principle
laid down was, that while the Government could not
with the Queen's army commence war without the sanc-
tion of Parliament, yet they could do so with an Indiau
army. (Hear.) That was a most dangerous principle,
and in that case it was the more dangerous because the
Persian was not an Indian war. That war was a matter
of British and not of Indian principle, and therefore no
claim could be made fur it of being exempt from the
control of Parliament. The question, then was, what
course were they to take ? Coull they afford altoge-
ther to pass it by as regards the derogations which
had taken place of the privileges of Parliament. He
thought words of the deepest censure were ju-ti-
fiable ; but as the derogation took piece in the last Par-
liament, he would be content to waive that censure, pro-
vided he could obtain security for the privileges of Par-
liament for the future. Upon that subject he felt much
warm, be. ause the Government had defended themselves
upon the meiits of the case, and without reference to the
dignity of Pariiament. lie confessed, therefore, that
while he was not convinced of the necessity of recording
censure, yet it would be inconsistent with the character
of the house, and inconsistent with the jealousy with
which the house always watched its privileges, if they
allowed the matter to pass unnoticed. If the Government
had said that this was not to be a precedent, he would
have urged the hon. and learned gentleman not to per-
severe in his course ; but as they had been told that
everything was right, he for one could not, by putting a
negative on the hon. and learned gentleman, support a
principle which asserted that a war might be commenced
and concluded without the coos ent of the British Par-
liament. (Cheers )
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, I cannot concur either
with the constitutional doctrine or with the constitu-
tional conduct of the hon. and learned gentleman who
has moved these resolutions. If I understand the con-
stitutional doctrine which the hon, and learned gentle-
man endeavoured to lay down, it is this that the crown
has no right either to make war or to make peace with-
out previous communication with and the concurrence
of Parliament. Now, I deny that doctrine to be any
part of the constitution of this country. I contend, on
the contrary, that the constitution of the country vests
in the crown the prerogative and the discretion of war
and of peace ; but with this reserve, that when the ad-
visers of the crown have deemed it their duty to counsel
their sovereign either to engage in war or to put an
end to war by a treaty of peace, that it is the duty
of those advisers to lay before Parliament, if sitting, the
grounds upon which either the one course or the other
has been adopted ; and if Parliament be not sitting
when the interests of the country are deemed to be such
as to require a recut:re() to war, I frankly admit that it
is their duty to take the earliest opportunity of calling
Parliament together for the purpose of laying before them
' the grounds on which that course has been taken. I
should be the last man in the world to deny that general
proposition. I luaint.i,,, however, that WI the course to
which the motion alludes, there were circumstances,
which ran lared it a temporary exception to that rule. I
must observe, however, that there is a wide distinct on
between the conduct of the hon. and learned gentleman
and the doctrine of the right hon. gentleman the member
for Oxford. The hon. and learned gentleman declares
that in any case in which a war had been undertaken,
when no part of the expense was to be paid out of the re-
volues of the country, that then it was a case in which
Parliament had no ground to interfers, whereas the right
hon. gentleman contends that even in the case of Indian
war, carried on within the ',mite of India, and with re-
gard to which no charge whatever would be thrown on
athpli'dyc.°unl'"—that even in that case the priticii le would
leave the hon. and learned gentleman, and the
right hon. gentleman to settle which of the two princi-
ples they should adopt. Now, with regard to the case
i itself ; I am quite ready to admit that it does involve a
question which Parliament is entitled to have well ex-
plained to them, and which if not less capable of expla-
nation and if it were drawn into a precedent, might be
attended with injurious and improper consequences. But
I the right her. gentleman is quite mistaken (and I think
he could riot have been present during the earlier course
i of the evening) in saying that no explanation has been
given by any member of the government of any peculiar
circumstances which took mint case out of the general
rule. The Cha.ncillor of the Exchequer and the Presi-
dent of the Board of Control stated at length and in great
detailthitt why it was not a case in whica it was necessary
Parliament should be consulted. It has been con-
tended by some that Parliament should have been ceded
together when the force was tent off to Bombay.
think my right hon. friend's answer is perfectly conclu-
sive. It would have been the height of absurdity to
have proclaimed to the world that we were making i
pre-
parations for waging war in a certain event which might
lor might not happen. Then it was said that Parliament
ought to have been called together in September when
the Gevernor-General gave orders for the extradition. I
pay it was premature even then to call Parliament toge-
ther, because it was impossible to say that circum-
stances might not have occurred in India which might
I have prevented the Governor-General from prosecuting
l the war. The earliest moment when Parliament could
have been consulted with propriety on the subject was
when we bad knowledge of the declaration of war. Well,
at that time Parliament was called together for the 31
oeafrFlieeb,truary. The Christman holidays were near, and the
period
at which Parliament could have been
called together was the first or second week in January;
and therefore the only laches, if there were any ladies at
all, was in not calling Parliament together between the
middle of Jan. and the 31 of Feb. It the war ha i been
one with an European power involving great and serious
cnaegner'
of and likely to require the immediate co-
operation parliament, be admitted that even that short
period ought to have been avoided—(hear)—but consi.
Bering the remoteness of the scene of action, considering
that no immediate requisition was called for from Par-
liament, he thought it would have been attaching more
importance to the matter than it deserved if they had
issued a proclamation to call Parliament together a fort-
night sooner on the announcement that war had been
commenced in Persia. We did, in the beginning of the
session, in the speech from the throne, communicate the
fact of this dispute with Persia, and the military opera-
tions which bad taken place. Where was the hon, and
learned gen letnan then f Where was his constitutional
jealousy ? Where was my right hon. friend the member
for Oxford / Where was my right hon. friend the member
for Cambridge ? Where were all these constitutional chain-
pions ? Silent as the grave. Where was the vote of cen-
sure ? Where was the reprobation which the hon. and
learned gentleman now wishes to draw down upon
us ? Why, there are things which are said, like
the oak to be long in attaining maturity ; but whea they
do attain it their strength and power are great in pro.
indignation of my hon. and learned
portion to the time they have been acquiring them.
And so with the inclig
friend. He did not get up on the first or second day of
the session and say, st you have just got us into a war
with Persia and have/ not called Parliament together. I
will propose a vote of censure upon you." He has
brooded over his indignation from February till July,
and now comes forward with a vote, not of censure, but
of reprobation, with a strength of lsnguage proportioned
to the time it has been suspended and the heat of the
weather. (Cheers and laughter.) As to his constitu-
tional principles, I do not think the country will applaud
them, and the time that has intervened and the moment
he has chosen prove he is not a very ardent or a very
ready champion of our constitutional privileges.
is the moment he has chosen ? He has waited until the
What
feelings and anxieties of the country are roused and ago-
nised by the accounts we have received from India; he
has waited until the moment when the Government are
engaged with all their mind and all their thoughts in
providing for the difficulties of the hour. But, sir, has
customary when a member is about to propose anything
nee ? No sir The
which he thinks of great importa . , .
he even given the house the notice which is usual and
honourable and learned gentleman suddenly bethought
himself about six o'clock, that he
Govern-
ment last year, and at Di% o'clock he gave notice of what
he would do this evening. That, sir, is a departure
woaldca yesterday
lsattetrednatyion evening,
trth e evil doings of the
from the ordinary practice of Parliament. He proposed
to call the attention of the house to a subject of
great importance, with regard to which papers of ome
magnitude had been laid on the table ; and I think it
was only due to memberse--I do net talk of the govern-
ment, for we are always ready—(laughter)—l say he has
failed in the respect due.to members in not giving them

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time to ropernte thess papers, and ho should eepeelelly 1 proposed home. ritiolutiona by way Of aresehment to 1 wsite to be &Wish It wee anly fair the deler.tes should
have given time to the new members—(laughter)—to the - motion of...going iptotganinhtee of Supply, in !he on the sill-Jeer's as they stood in order on-the paper.
acquire intermatien. I now, sir, come to Vitas who order to provide for the expellees of. the Peisian SUPERANNUATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
co eend that the only question before ue is as teehe course war. These resolutiona• may be ceucted in strung Lord NAAS objected to postpone the order for the
the governmerit has pursued, and that. is the main point laneuege. Teat is of c urse a qutetio:i of d- gree second reedy gof this bill, on the oround that Govern•
of the resolutisn, although the hon. and learned whale- ci Intl: inerrant, but no h-in. geritneeeri will pretend went were in a very cliff-rent position ham private
man has mixed up a great variety of topics. He says . teat they do net embody a weistitutitend principle mcnibtrs• Tne Government could fix the business as
he does not anticipate much success, as government (hear, hear), or that that; principle ie not expressed in I they pleased, but a private member had no such ad-
have acquired, undu'y as he thinks, and why he cannot . nervous, proper, and parliamentary language. Whether 1 vantage.
imagine, the general confidence of the country. (Hear, the resolutions apply to the circumstances of the case Sir G. GREY said, the house would meet again to-
and laughter.) I can tell him hew we have gaited that I whether the iemerence a hich the hon. and learned gentle- • day at 12, and it was rather hard, after sitting at 12
confidence. His resolutions and his votes of censure man has drawn is sufficiently sustained by the premises, yesterday, to keep members there until 20r3 in the
will tend as much to increase the confidence of the people j are questions meet and fit for parliamentary discussion ; morning. It was only reasonable that after 12 o'clock
as thatcelebrated resolution of his, which led to the great but far proposing these resolutions, which assert the they should not proceed with bills which were likely to
outburst of national feeling. The bon. and learned privileges of Parliament and express a constitutional be opposed.
gentleman in the course of his speech, said he looked principle acknowledged even by her Majesty's Ministers Mr H. BERKELEY said that the Civil Service Su-
upon the overthrow of our power in India and the des- tonight, the hen. and learned gentleman is assailed in perannuation Bill was viewed by the country with deep
traction of our Indian empire as a possible if not pro- tones of vituperation, and is told he is taking an un• interest. He hoped that an opportunity would be given
bable event. He was interrupted by a cry of "No" English urse. (Cheers.) The First Lord of the for its discussion. (Hear, hear.)
from gentlemen on the other side of the house ;he said, I Treasury,l•feeking of the Shah of Ptrtla, said he bad a The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re-
" Those are British noes." I wish, sir, that the speech habit of boasting in his Durbar. Wah there are other marked that the Government were casposed to give a
and resolution of the hon. gentleman were British. I great men who boast (loud laughter and cheer=)—in day, but they were unable at the present moment to fix
say thatit is becaasethe country feels; that the spirit which places which we were once fain to hope were almost as any time,
animates the hon. and learned gentleman is not an Eng- august as the Durbar of a Persian king of kings Mr. S. FITZGERALD hoped that the noble lord
lane spirit, and that his feelings are not the feelings of Eng- (laughter) ; but if the policy the noble lord recommends would not be content unless the Government named a
lishmen, and that his votes of censure have recoiled upon were pursued I think the influence of Parliament would particular day for the discussion of his Bill. (Hear,
himself and on those who were found ready to support be so much diminished that we might perhaps have to hear.)
him, (Hear, hear.) Some hon. gentlemen have made i veil our- glories before the superior authority of a Persian Viscount GALWAY suggested to the Government
little of the cause of the war ; but' sir, are we the only sovereign. The noble lord, having been accused of being that they might easily get over the difficulty by agreeing
Government who have attached importance to the inde- a most popular Minister (a laugh), yields to the soft to the second reading. (A laug' .)
pendence of Herat ? Every successive Government for peachment, and in the Persian style says, "True it The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sad that
a length of time has held the samo opinion, The Go- I is, I am most popular (laughter, followed by cheers as Thursday morning next seemed to be unoceupied, the
verntnents of Lord Derby, Lord Aberdeen, and Lord from the Ministerial side) ; true it is that I possess the discussion might then be taken on the Civil Service Su
Melbourne have all felt that Herat in the possession of confidence of the country, but what is the cause? perannuation Bill. (Hear )
Persia would he a great danger to our Indian posses- (Cheers from the Ministerial side.) I know why I The mot eu for the adjournment of the house was then
'hoes. The right hon. gentleman the member for Oxford possess the confidence of the country. (Laughter and withdrawn
deprecated any allusion to Russia as instigating Persian cheers). It ie," said the noble lord to the hon. and BOUNDARIES OF LAND (IRELAND) BILL.
aggression in the direction of our Indian possessions ; learned member for Sheffield, "in consequence cf your Ties Bill passed through committee.
but does not the right hon. gentleman recollect that revolutions." (Laughter.) Now, what were the reso- CRUELTY TO ANIMALS AMENDMENT BILL.
when, on a former occasion, a Persian army was besieg- lutions of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield ? I Lord RAYNHAM moved that the order for the
ing Herat, and was only presented from taking it by the remember several memorable occasions on which the seethe' reading of this Bill be withdrawn.
gallantry of Eldred and Pottinger, it was a Russian hon. and learned gentleman, unsupported by any per- Agreed to.
general sent on purpose to conduct the operations who sonal following in this house, has proposed resolutions. The other orders were disposed of, and the house
directed the siege, and at the same time another Russian I need scarcLly remind the house of what sass perhap , adjourned at half-past 1 until 12 o'clock this day.
officer was sent to Cabul and Candahar to organise a the most memorable occasion on which the hon. and
--
combination? I should always wish to be on the best learned gentleman brought forward a resolution. It was
terms with Russia. The war is over, and I trust the a resolution for an inquiry into the state of the English
animosities arising from it are effaced from the minds of army before the walls of Sebastopol. (Cheers.) Was
Etiglish and Russians—(hear, hear)—but it is one thing that an un-English resolution ? (Renewed cheetah Was
•
to renew friendly relations with a foreign power, it is it an unconstitutional resolution ? (Hear.) Why, the
another to forget the precautions necessary to guard im- noble lord, who was one of the guilty ministers, yielded
portant interests of the country. If, sir, Persia was not to the vote when that resolution was carried. (Cheers.)
between Russia or. the one side and British India on Another resolution, almost equally memorable, and
the other, it would be a matter of perfect indif- which lam sure the noble lord cannot have forgotten,
ference to us whether or not she occupied Herat ; was also proposed by the hen. and learned gentleman.
but knowing as we do that Llerat is the great This occasion was when the "turbulent and aggressive
fortress which leads to Cabul and Candahar, and p ,licy" of the noble lord was properly brought under our
knowing that Persia is a week power, under consideration by an eminent inernbLtr of this house, and
the instieation of Russia, and knowing that the posses- when a large and powerful party, asserting, as I believe,
eion of Herat by Persia would facilitate its occupation souud principles of policy---(cheers)— called upon the
by Russia whenever the political relations between her House of Commons to seal with in; strong reprobation
and England might lead Russia to contemplate the inva- the ithurioue policy of the noble loaf. The hon and
sion of India, and knowing that its nitration by a Rue- learned member for Sheffield then came forward with one
s-au force would tend to shake the confidence in our of his un-English resolutions, and by the aid of the hen.
power, and the fidelity of our allies, any government and learned gentleman, and by a scant majority, the
hich would shut its eyes to the danger of permitting mischievous career of the noble lord was continued.
Persia to occupy Herat would be wanting in its duty. (Cheers.) Now, as the noble lord has alluded to the
But it is said, admitting this, we might have obtained younger members of this house, I think they may learn
the evacuation of Herat by negotiation ; there is clear from this instance what gratitude they wi 1 experience
proof to the contrary. The Khan had boasted that he if, in future moments of d laugh). -desirous to
had got Herat, and could keep it in his hands. Negotia- save a Minister from a diffituity or to extricate him
tion had failed, and we were compelled to have recourse from a scrape—(laughter),—they come forward and
to onto to procure its restoration. It is said the negotia- propose resolutions to assist the policy or to vindicate
tiona at Constantinople would have been successful if we the conduct of the noble lord. (Laughter) A few
had been content with the terms Ferukh Khan proposed. years will passe, and hey will then be held up to the
In the first place, he never offered any terms, showing scorn and ridicule of the house as the movers of un-
he bad full power to bind his master; and in the next English resolutions. (Some cries of " Oh," cheers and
place, ho made it a condition that we should suspend the laughter.) Tuose who vindic Ito the privileges of Par-
expedition which was thee fitting out. My noble friend Liam sot—(tries of " Oh, oh")—aye, many of the hon.
said we made war because Sadr Azim could not be turned gentlemen who in their present zeal utter those murmurs
out. He has made a mistake. It was to obtain very dif- —(cheers and langhter)—and who I dare say are now
ferent terms that we declared war. The question of peace only too eager to came forward to vindicate the noble
or war depended on the acceptance or refusal of certain lord—(cheers)—will learn from the lesson of to-night the
conditions, and orders were sent to the troops before future that awaits them. (Laughter.) Now, let us see
Ferukh Khan 'had displayed his power, and when he whether the premises of the hon. and learned gentleman
learned that the troops had been sent be declined to no- justify the conclusion at which he asks the house to ar-
gotiate any longer, saying that by despatching an expe. rive Striouely speaking, that conclusion is a very grave
dition we had ahered the state of affairs, and it was fur one. ("Oh," and a laugb.) Why, surely, you would
his sovereign to decide what should be done. It was a not have me speak seriously of light matters ? I have
misapprehension to say peace or war depended on the ac- been answering the light part of the noble lord's speech
' ceptanoe or refueal of certain conditions by Ferukh Khan, —(laughter)—and lam now about to address Wyse fto
because orders had been sent to the troops to embark be- what ought to have been the grave portion of it. (Hear,
fore the negotiation with him commenced. It is said we hear.) The conclusion suggested by the hon. and
made worse terms at Paris than we could have got at learned gentleman is one of great gravhy, and lam not
Constantinople. It is quite true we relaxed certain condi- prepared to say that if that conclusion were established
thins which we found to be particularly painful to the —grave as it is—I, for one, should shrink from the re-
Shah. At one time we are accused of having exacted teo sponsibility of voting for it. 1 think we should place
hard terms, and at another we are rebuked for making con- ourselves in a very false position if we asserted our be-
ces-ions to soothe the feelings of a weak power. (Hear.) lief that the privileges of this house had been violated by
I say that those who contend we ought to be friendly the Ministry, and yet shrunk from the responsibility of
with Persia ought to approve of our conduct in having condemning their conduct ; but at the same time it is
waived certain terms not essential to security, and which necessary that we should scrupulously look to facts, and
we were perfectly justified in demanding in the outset, see whether the conclusion we are called upon to adopt
but which we found to be grating to the feelings of the is justified by the circumstances or premises alleged.
power with which we were anxious to be on good terms. What is the language of the resolution? It calls upon us
(Hear, hear) The hon. and learned gentleman has found to say—
out that the Persian war is the cause of the calamities " That the war with Persia was declared, prosecuted,
that has occurred in India. Why, sir, the very contrary and concluded without information of such transactions
is the truth. In the first place, no ntan in his senses can being communicated to Parliament."
imagine that the withdrawal of 5,000 men from Bombay Now is that the fact ! (Hear.) I perfectly agree that the
could affect the presidency of Bengal and the north-west house has not been treated in this matter with that can-
provinces. The power of England in Asia depended on dour which I think it would have been wise if the Minis-
opinion, and what would have been the effect on opinion tar,a,, however popular and powerful, had exhibited. I
c
it they had seen England, after having made a great effort not, however, get over the fact that on the meeting
in 1838 to prevent Persia from acquiring Herat, and of Parliament, which might have been too long deferred,
having protested under successive governmants against and atter an 'atubl urU4 silerce had perhaps, been top
it, snow at length, when she had menqurcd swords with l •maintained g
long on the part of Government, there was
Russia, she had shrunk from the position she had so long an announcement in the Speech from the Throne of a ear
maintained, and acquiesced in the retention of Herat in with Persia. (Hear.) I feel that that was the oceasien
spite of all her remonstrances ? Such conduct would
—at the time the address was moved—when this
' have had the most fatal effect on the reputation of Eag- question ought to have been mooted. (Hear, hear.) I
land in the East, for which the retention of 5,000 men do not at all agree with the Chancellor of the Excite-
in Bombay would have been no compensation. On the quer or other hon, gentlemen, who maintain that this or
either hand, the result of the war mu t be advantageousaiiiey,l,iisee any other Indian riars do not require notice from Par-
to British influence in the East. (Hear.) liament ; but the fact that at the centmencement of this
that we were enabled to despatch a powerful expedition war an appeal was immediately made to the Exchequer
to Persia, that signal success had attended it, and we of this country marks it out from usual Indian wars,
have enforced the evacuation of Herat ;we have gained (Hear, hear.) I cannot, however, agree that, as a
a triumph of arms and diplomacy over Persian aegres-
general principle, all Indian wars are to be taken from
sion and Russian instigation, which must be of great the c introl of this house, even if an immediate appeal is
value to our reputation through the whole of Asia. So
far from admitting the justice of the assertion that the not made to the British exchequer. (Hear, hear.) The
basis of Indian finance is the credit of England ; and at
Persian expedition was connected in the remotest degree
this moment, when we hear of the treasuries of India
with the unfortunate events which have happened in being plundered, when no tne can tell by what rnachi-
India, I centend it had rather a tendency to prevent them, leery the revenue of India can for some time be collect-
The hon. and learned gentleman's own arguments upset ed, we should have acted in a most indiscreet manner—
his position in this respect, for he afterwards attempted
even if this had been purely and strictly an Indian war
to represent the =e events as the result of a long •
without any immediate app:-al to the English exchequer
prepared combination ; and if so, they caud not be the
the la, t
—if we had allowed the war to pass without criticism
result of the sudden despatch of 5,000 men from Born-
and disc • Thera • then, before us the important
bay. These men have now returned t the shores of faot t.hatuastsitohne. beginningis; of the' last
India, and with greater power and greater influence, on session of
Parliament we were aplerised that this war had been
account of the glory they have acquired, and the honour undertaken. I cannot undeln these circumstances agree
and character they have gained. Then, sir, I say there to a resolution which alleges, "that the war with Persia
is no ground for the resolution of the bon. and learned was declared, prosecuted, and concluded without infer-
eentlernan on the point of the constitutional principle. motion of such transactions being communicated t m Par-
But, even if I did not dispute his constitutional doctrine liament." I think the G wernment acted unwisely and
I contend that, under the circumstances, it is rather a erroneously in not communicating their policy to Perlis-
piece of pedantry than the effect of any substantial re- went at an earlier period ; but I cannot agree that the
gard for the rights and privileges of this house. I say late Parliament was itself free from blame in allowing
there is no ground for his resolution on account of the the c-induct of the Government to pass so long unnotic-
policy which led to the expedition against Persia, be- ed. (Hear.) Does it then become an assembly that has
cause that policy has had the unanimous approval of been backward in the fulfilment of its duty to agree to
each successive government. It was the policy of Lord a resolution of so uncompromising a character as
Malmesbury as much as of Lord Clerendon ; and there that proposal by the honourable and learned gentle-
fore for the house to agree to a resolution which would man ? I confess I cannot but feel that the honourable
directly or indirectly censure the policy of the Govern- tleman is right in calling the' attention of the
meat in maintaining Herat free horn Persia would, I gentleman
to this subject. I wish he had done so in
contend, be a fatal mistake, an I one productive of the a:manner. which would have allowed the expression
most fatal consequences to our interests in India. Sir, optnion to be of
coatnnorttailnteuvenranimous
hcharacteathi!
on those grounds I trust the house will pass into corn-
reittee of supply ; for, even if the hon. and learned gen- debate will supposewithou't whatever
to our privileges, aYpen, but I
tleman should consider it necessary to divide the house, wish the hone and learnedp gentleman woud not call
I trust the majority will tell him that the motion is not upon us to divide upon this issue. (" ! I") It is
such as he had a right to expect that the feelings of the ' •
not for me to counsel the hon. and learned gentleman,
house would agree te. (Cheers)
but I shall follow the course which I think it is my duty
Mr. DISRAELL—I hope the house will permit mefor to follow. I do not think the premises in this case
a very few moments to trespass on its time while I ex- justify the severe and sweeping conclusions at which he
plain the course which on this occasion I think it my has arrived, and therefore my course will be to vote that
duty to adopt. I will at once dismiss all that vexed the house do go into committee,e numbers of supply. (Hear, hear.)
question of Persian politics, with respect to which I
The house divided, when tn
were—
rather still believe that I have more accurate inapres-
For Mr. Roebuck's resolution 3B
Against it
sions than appear to prevail on the Treasury bench. Ao-
Majority
cording to the Chancellor of the Exchequer Persia is the
,
ers. Some laughter followed the announcement of the num-
o
vassal of Russia ; and according to the President of the
Board of Control it is with great difficulty that he can a , •
Mr. DISRAELI. asked if the papers relating to the
prevent Persia from falling into the hands of England, mutiny in India would be laid on the table to-morrow
her natural ally. With dogmas so discordant, and (this day.)
opinions so contrary, maintained by two of the most Mr. V. SMITH was understood to say they would be
eminent members of the Cabinet on the vital question laid on the table on an early day.
as to what led to the war and caused the expenditure, The house then went into a committee of supply, pro
forma, when
her Majesty's Ministers must excuse me if Ido not place The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER aaid he
implicit confidence in their views of Persian politics, should not at that late hour (a quarter to one o'clock)
(Hear, and a laugh.) But the opinion of the house on ask the house to agree to the two resolutions which
Persian politics is not, I believe, the question which to- stood on the paper in his name. He should move them
night engages our attention, nor do I think it necessary to-morrow (this) evening in a committee of supply.-
The house then resumed.
to enter into the other question, which, borrowing the On the bringing up of the report of the committee of
epithet used to-night, I may call that awful question of supply,
the present state of India, though it has been adverted Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked how the balance re-
to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer and dwelt on by maining unexpended of the sure voted for civil coutin-
the First Lord of the Treasury, We at least have this gencies, and which bad been accumulating for several
advantage from this discussion, that we have received years past, was to be appropriated ? He wished also to
the mature and solemn Opinion of the Government on know whether the Treasury claimed a power to autho-
the cause of the present condition of our Indian empire. rise expenditure without any examination of accounts,
The Chancellor of the Exchequer has informed us that and whether these accounts were aulited 2
India at the present moment is suffering only from a Mr. WILSON sail the balances of civil continnencies,
inonrentaryand unexpected impulse arising fromaupersti- which had accumulated fair some years, had been paid
lions causes. This insurrection, which extends from the as savings into the Treasury, and an account would
Punjab to Calcutta, is, according to the Chancellor of be given yearly of those balances. The Treasury claimed
the Exchequer, the creation of merely a sudden impulse. no right to appropriate a Biagio penny voted for civil con-
I can hardly believe that such a grave coneequeece has tingencies to any other 'purpose. At present the Civil
arisen from so accidental a cause. I should hardly be- Service Estimates were not audited, but he hoped an
lieve that that is the cause, especially in respect to our arrangement would shortly be made to refer them to the
Indian army, which by its education and interests, and Board of Audit.
by every motive which can influence the loyalty of men, The report was then received.
ought to be most devoted to our Government, that FRAUDULENT TRUSTEES, &e., BILL.
should be suddenly found in a state of insurrection on This bill was read a third time and passed.
account of the cause alleged by the Chancellor of the
DULWICH COLLEGE BILL.
Exchequer. I must be permitted to say that I believe
the cause of the present state of India is much graver This bill was read a second time and ordered to be
(erredre-
the to a select committee.
arid deeper than appears to be conceived by her Ma -
COMMONS ENCLOSURE BILL.
jesty's Ministers, (Hear, hear.) I believe the present
This bill was read a second time.
state of India has been occasioned by long years of mis-
government ; and if it be the opinion of her Majesty's JUSTICE AND POLICE FORCEI(DUBLIN) BILL.
Ministers that the condition of India Ls attributable to Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD moved that the Speaker
such temporary and unexpected causes as were alleged by leave the chair in order to go into committee upon this
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, I should have much bill.
lees confidence than I would willinglyaenhatain with Mr. VANCE objected, as he had only just received
regard to the remedial measures they have proposed, some amendments from Dublin.
and the further measures which I trust they are pre. Me. FITZGERALD offered to postpone proceed-
pared to submit to Parliament. But, dismissing the ings on this bill to another day, if all the orders of man-
grove question of Persian politics which must soon en- hers which followed were also postponed,
gage our consideration, let us consider the real question Mr. GROGAN moved the adjournment of the house.
we have to dech4e to-night—namely, the course which Lord PALMERSTON agreedithat it was unreason-
independently of passion or of party, we ought to pur- able at that hour (1 o'clock) to expect the house to go
sue, The hoc, and learned member for Sheffield has en with opposed bills, but if they were to sit, and there

MURDER IN FRANCE.

The Court of Assizes of the Aveyron, three days
ago, tried a young man named Coutems, for several
attempts at murder. After serving some time in
the 57th Regiment, he obtained a furlough on se"
count of ill health, and took up his residence at
the house of au uncle named Ricnard, at L9.vesque•
When, on recovering, he was about to leave, he
claimed llfr. 50c. from his uncle, which he pre-
tended to be due, but the uncle not considering
that he owed anything refused to pay. He thee
cited his uncle b; fore the juge-de-paix, but the
claim was dismissed. This irritated him greatlit
and he frequently declared that he would kill his
uncle and his aunt, even though he should be
sent to the hagi,e for life for so doing. In the
evening of-the 15th January he went into a neigh"
hour's house, and in spite of than person's objee-
Cons carried uff his gun. With it he went to the
house of his uncle, and finding him seated befell:
the fire in the company of some friends he raised
the gun and cried out, " in the name of the law,
you are dead !" at same time pulling the trigger!
but the gun missed fire. The persons preseau
rush-d on him, and not thinking lie had really je-
tenclt.d to k,ll turned him out of doors. After ,f!,
while, seeing his uncle open the window, he age'
attempted to discharge Vie gun at him, but it gat'''.
missed fire. He then went to the house of a fenas',°,
neighbour, and begged her to go and tell 11'''
uncle that he was sorry for what he had doll
and was willing to drink a b ittle of wine Wit.,
him as a proof of reconciliation. The worasro
went ; but no sooner had she opened the unele„
door than the prisoner, who had followed her,
charged his gun at his uncle ; this time it went aul
and the charge struck a servant man in the breast,
wounding him, but not seriously. The jury e•
elated the man guilty with extenuating circarri;
stances, and the court sentenced him to five year
hard labour.