The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-30 00:00:00

state of public opinion they could not just yet sit down.
(Cheers and laughter.) The truth is, sir, there is no sub-
stantial difference of opinion traceable to differen es in this
house between political parties upon this grea and tran-

scendant subject; and therefore it is to me a m ter of deep
regret that, when there is such union of sentim, nt upon the
questions at issue, we should be ranged in ostile debate

—(cheers)—with a division before us whi must tend to
estrange from one another those who are nob separated by
clear, broad, conscientious differences of opinion, and by

whose united efforts alone this great subject can be brought
to a satisfactory settlement. (Continued cheering.) I can-
not help also venturing a remark upon the form of the reso-
lution proposed by my noble friend the member for the city.
It is a remark which will be, I trust, in entire harmony both
with the letter and with the spirit of your own decision, be:
cause I am certain that my noble friend would have been
the last man to propose an irregular resolution. But if the
resolution is regular and Parliamentary, I venture to sug-
gest that it is one to which exception may be taken on the
grounds of general prudence and convenience. (Hear, hear.)
The rules of this house, it is true, do much towards keeping
the course of public business within its legitimate bounds,
but also much, of necessity, must depend on the judgment
of the members of the house. (Hear, hear.) I take it that
there is a meaning in the rules of the house when they pro-
vide that on the presentation of any scheme of legislation in
the form of a bill the duty of the house should be to address
itself to the scheme as a whole, that the house should then,
and then only, proceed to deal with the details. (Cheers.)
I do not enter into the question whether resolutions ought
ever to be made on the second reading of bills. I confess
it appears to me utterly impossible to exclude them, be-
cause if they were altogether excluded this house would be
shorn of much of its legislative power, and be reduced to
the necessity of saying nothing but simply "aye" or
" no" on a motion. (Hear.) Nor do I deny that there
are precedents of some kind which to a certain extent may
be pleaded in support of the present resolution, but I ex-
press my own opinion, as far as my own opportunities o
knowledge go, that this is the first occasion on which a reso-
lution has been moved on the second reading of a bill, the
purport and matter of which resolution consists simply in
dealing with certain portions of the bill, which portions
might be dealt with in committee. (Cheers.) To that extent
it appears to me that this resolution may be termed a
I novelty, and I must add that it is an inconvenient novelty.
(Hear, hear.) How are measures, of necessity, very fre-
quently framed ? It is often the duty of the G overnment
to combine in one and the same measure a great variety of
propositions, the whole of which—l am not now speaking
of the present bill, but of what is the general duty of the
Government—the whole of which, I repeat, may be neces-
sary to the complete attainment of the public ends in view.
Yet one portion of these propositions may be highly popular
and the other portion may be the subject of popular preju-
dice. There may be a great temptation from time to time,
particularly in the disorganised state of political parties, to
select out of the measure so presented those portions which
are unpopular, and to insist on procuring the judgment of
the house on those unpopular parts of the bill antecedently
to the second reading. I frankly own, however, that I cannot
conceive any practice which, if it grew up, would be more
inconvenient or dangerous. (Cheers.) I confess that these
are reasons which weigh with me to no inconsiderable
extent in bringing me to the conclusion that I cannot sup-
port the bill—l mean the resolution, but I might say the
bill likewise. (Hear, and a laugh.) The course taken by
my noble friend the member for London has been sub-
jected to great severity of attack, which I frankly own it
does not appear to me that he deserves. (Hear, hear.) It
is said that my noble friend has made a factious motion.
If it be a factious motion, it is certainly a very ill-
chosen one, because, taking the two great exponents of
the resolution who bring the greatest power to its sup-
port, they have fairly avowed that, while they concur in the
resolution, they differ as to the course it may immediately
involve. The noble lord the member for Tiverton has ex-
plicitly stated to the house that he supports the resolu-
tion, not for the sake of getting rid of the bill, but as a
foundation on which alone he can conscientiously consent to
support the second reading ; while the noble lord the mem-
ber for London, so far from interposing this resolution as a
condition which once being laid down may enable him to
accept the second reading of the bill, has, in language very
distinct, stated that he trusted that not only will this reso-
lution be carried—as appears likely to be the case—but
that there will be successive attacks on the bill until—l
think these were his words—it should be, if not immedi-
ately, at last totally rejected. These different declarations
proceeding from the two noble lords do not certainly imply
any deeply laid plot for a joint attack on the present occu-
pants of office with a view to a joint occupation of place
afterwards. (Laughter.) I cannot part from this part of
the subject without expressing, particularly after what has
fallen from the First Lord of the Admiralty, the deep re-
gret with which I heard an hon. gentleman—and a gentle-
man of the distinguished character, eminence, and abilities
of her Majesey's Solicitor-General—spoil an effective speech
by dropping, at the close of it, words which were not worthy
of this house or of his position. (Cheers.) lam convinced
that those words must have proceeded from a rhetorical in-
advertence—from the necessity, if 1 may presume to any so
of always finishing a sentence, which occasionallypresses in
an inconvenient manner even on the most experienced and
practised speakers. I cannot believe that those words were
intended to be used, and I am confident that before the de-
bate is over the hon. and learned gentleman will, in a man-
ner worthy of himself and in a way due to the character of
the noble lord the member for London, express his regret for
the observations to which I now allude. (Cheers.) What
I now wish to say to the house is that the paramount and
overbearing motive in my mind which governs my vote, and
I hope every word that I speak, is that it becomes our duty
to take that course which will most contribute to the early
and satisfactory settlement of this question, and if I had
seen through the resolution of my noble friend the prospect
of a powerful Government, and a combination of men ready
to carry through a measure of reform not immoderate in its
form,—and no immoderate measure should I expect from
my noble friend,—that would have been a reason with me
for supporting the resolution. If we could have had a strong
Government for the purpose of working this question by all
means let us have that Government. But far from feeling
an inducement to vote for the resolution, a circumstance
that operates in a contrary direction is that I find the lead-
ing men prominent in support of the resolution have an
agreement of opinion limited to the terms of the motion
itself, and that the day subsequent to the success of the
resolution would see them pursuing their distinct and oppo-
site courses. (Cheers.) I have ventured to state the motive
on which I think our conclusion on this subject should be
grounded, and I now ask what is the position of the Govern-
ment with respect to the bill and with respect to the house.
I cannot deny that the first cause of these embarrassments,
so far as I am able to perceive, is the most unfortunate
error committed by the Government in the construction of
their bill in opposition to the wise advice of two most dis-
tinguished members of the Cabinet. (Cheers.) I believe
that the Government is now as well aware as any gentleman
who sits on either side of the house that in all probability,
if they had taken the wise advice of their two late colleagues,
while their counsels were still unknown to the public, and
had presented a plan framed on the basis of the suggestions
of those right hon. gentlemen, the bill would then have met
with very general acceptance. (Hear, hear.) This is,
however, referring to the past, and the Government now
are responsible for the bill as it stands before us. We also
are responsible for what we do with respect to the bill ; and
therefore the question I have to ask myself is not whether
the Government have presented a plan in every point such
.as I, for one, could have desired ; but in what manner I
can meet the embarrassments created, and find, if
possible, an escape from them. The Government
in the first place, are the existing Government, and,
as such, have a claim on the House of Commons
in a state of things wherein it is not very clear, if the
Ministers are removed from office, who are to succeed them.
(Hear, hear.) It is further quite evident that the Govern-
ment have some facilities for the settlement of this question
which no other Government could possess, in the fact that
probably unless the present Government had been in office
we should not have had that remarkable accordance of
opinion on the subject of reform. (Laughter.) I do not
say that hon. gentlemen have spoken otherwise than ac-
cording to their conscientious cpinions ; but the fact of
having their political friends in office tendetl undoubtedly
to induce a conciliatory disposition. (Hear, hear.) But I
must also freely admit that I think the claimof the Govern-
ment may be carried a point further. I think that a Re-
form Bill having been submitted to the house, and the
second reading of that bill having been proposed, they have
a claim on those members of the house—and I am one of
them—who have been parties to former miscarriages and
disappointments, that they shall do nothing beyond what is
absolutely necessary to intercept the progress of this bill.
(Cheers.) I confess it appears to me that, although the
feeling of the people of this country with respect to the
proceedings of the House of Commons is eminently satis-
factory,—although, as the hon. member for Birmingham
has so well said, they have begun, especially of late years
to entertain a warm sentiment both of gratitude and confi-
dence in the authority and institutions of the country, and
particularl in their representative assembly,—yet I doubt
whether at part of that gratitude or confidence is due to
the manner in which we have recently treated the subject
of Parliamentary reform. (Cheers.) There is not, so far
I as I know' a word of blame to be said of any ; and certainly
if there is blame to any one, I myself, as the colleague of
lily noble friend during a portion of these transactions, must
c(2"13_,1 then in for my share. But let us look at what has passed,
andaspect which it mustnecessarilypresent to a criticise
mg public. In 1851 my
a in a
htll.noble friend, then the first Minister
of the Crown, approached the question of reform, and com-
tmerewneaerdds7rith in 1 a 1712 he broughtiseofwht wasto b, eadnodn done
tld2i
samonthsppear
disappeared.
together with the Ministry. (A laugh.) In 1853 we had
the Ministry of Lord Aberdeen, which commenced with a
promise of reform in 12 months' time. Well, 1854 arrived •
with it arrived the bill, but with it also arrived the war'
and in the war was a reason, and I believe a good reason,
for abandoning the bill. Then came the Government of
my noble friend the member for Tiverton, which was not
less unfortunate in the circumstances which prevented the
redemption of those pledges that had been given to the
people from the mouth of the Sovereign on the Throne.
In 1855 my noble friend escaped all responsibility for a
Reform Bill on account of the war; in 1856 he escaped all
responsibility for reform on account of the peace—()oud
laughter and cheering)—in 18-57 he escaped that inconve-
nient responsibility by the dissolutiori of Parliament ; and
in 1858 he escaped again by the dissolution of his Govern-
ment. (Renewed laughter and cheers.) Well, each of these
may be good reasons why Parliament has not dealt with the
question of reform ; but I put it to the inipartial considera-
tion of hon. gentlemen whether upon the whole, if there be
a portion of the people out of doors who think the house is
reluctant or sincere with respect to reform, a series of events
like these don't strengthen such misgivings—(cheers)—
and don't render it additionally hazardous on our part to
interpose any obstacles except those which necessity im-
peratively requires to the progress of a bill which, at all
events, corresponds with the promise of the Sovereign on
the Throne in the general terms in which it was conveyed,
and which is now presented to us in such a form as to afford
us, I think, great hope of carrying to completion a measure
which may, take its place in our Statute-book. (Cheers.)
T confess I think that the appeal to members of former
Govt eats, a$ viett and as atatewaola, to mitt is so far