The Sun.
London, England, 1857-03-03 00:00:00

(The hon. and learned member then gave his version of
what he did say, but in too low a tone to be heard in
the gallery.)
Sir F. THE SIGER had listened to the hon. and
learned gentleman, he had also seen what appeared to
him to be a correct statement of what had passed, and
in that he found these words attributed to the hon. and
learned member : " It was remarkable that Lord Lynd-
hurst did not seem to be aware of that case." (Cheers.)
Now he must say that if any of them—pigmies in the
law—had ventured to address Lord Lyndhurst, and say
that he was ignorant of the law, the noble lord might
well have answered them in the words of Sergeant May-
nard :—"I have forgotten more law than you ever
knew." (Laughter.) The case to which the hon. and
learned gentleman referred was one well known to every
person in the slightest degree conversant with law. But
when the hon. and learned gentleman said that that au-
thority was a complete answer to Lord Lyndhurst's rea-
soning, and, moreover, when the boo. and learned gen-
tleman asserted, as he did, that it was a complete autho-
rity to show that the superintendent at Hong Kong had
a right to give a Chinese subject a register which would
enable him as against the Chinese authorities to appear
as a British subject, he would not venture to say that
the honourable and learned gentleman was ignorant of
the case, but he must say that a more complete mis-
apprehension of the authority of that decision was never
heard. (Hear, hear.) What was the case I The house
would forgive him for going into detail—(hear, hear)—
but it was necessary to be precise in dealing with the hon.
and learned Attorney-General. (Hear, bear.) The case
was this. A person who was a native-born British sub-

ject removed to the United States with his family with
the intention of settling there, was denizened and became
a natur.lised citizen of the American Republic. (Hear,)
Under a treaty with America—a treaty confirmed by act
of Parliament—the citizens of the United States were
allowed to trade with the East Indies—a privilege which,
as a general rule, no subject of England then enkiyed.

The person to whom he had just alluded had been for a
considerable time engaged in the shipping trade, was the
owner of several vessels, and the question was whether he,
a domiciled, naturalised citizen of the United States—
(hear)—was not within the terms of the treaty and the
act of Parliament —(hear)—whether he was not suffici-
ently clothed with the character of a citizen of America
to entitle him to trade with the East Indies. There
were great authorities who thought he was not entitled,
but the opposite view ultimately prevailed. The house
was therefore at last in possession of this authority, of
which it had been said by somebody that Lord Lynd-
hurst was not aware, which was to be a complete refu-
tation of the opinion which that noble and learned lord
expressed, and to establish that a parson who was e Ted
in the ordinance a Chinese resident, net domic led at a'l,
not naturalised, having no rights whatever as a British
subject, was by this register clothed with the character
of a British subject, and entitled to the privileges con-
ferred by the ordinance. (Cheers.) Of course the hon.
and learned Attorney-General was a lawyer of consider-
able eminence and experience ; he (Sir F. Thesiger) could
not presume him ignorant of, for he mentioned this au-
thority; that he had entirely misunderstood it when he put
it forward might be a question, but certainly the hon, and
learned gentleman was rather relying upon that which
very frequently occurred in the house—that if there was
only a bold assertion of law, it would pretty certainly be
adopted without question. (Laughter) The hon. and
learned gentleman (the Attorney-General) also referred to
another authority, upon which, too, he (Sir F. Thesiger)
found it necessary to correct him. The hon. and learned
gentleman said—"Thera was only ono other point to
which he begged to call the attention of 'toe house, viz.,
that the respect due to the British flag and the British
papers, which were known to be possessed by this vessel,
ought, independently of anything else, to have entitled it
to the protection due to the British flag, without the
Chinese entering into any examination of the aecuracy of
those papers." And then, finding in an Admiralty report
an isolated passage, the hon. and learned gentleman care-
fully culled it from the particulars of the case, and put it
forward to the house as maintaining him in the position
he had assumed. The learned gentleman said—The great-
est authority on that subject was Lord Stowell, who, in
the case of the Vigilantia, reported in Robinson, 13, said,
—" It is a known and established rule with respect to a
vessel, that if she is navigating under the pass of aforeign
country,she is considered as bearing the national character
of that nation under whose pass she sails—she makes a
part of its navigation, and is in every respect liable to be
considered as a vessel of that country." This was start-
ling. Now, let the house urv:erstand what this case of
the Vigilantia was. As the hod. and learned member
for Tavistock had stated, that case was a case of war.
It arose thus : There was a vessel sailing under Prussian
colours which belonged to a native of Holland. We were
at war with the Dutch at that time, and Prussia was a
neutral state. There had been an endeavour made to
give tee vessel a Prussian character, by in some way
getting a certificate from the magistrates at Ewing that
the owner of the vessel was a native of that city. Tons
she was sailing under Prussian colours and with Prus-
sian papers. But when the noble lord laid down the
proposition which the Attorney-General had quoted, he
laid it down with a number of qualifications which were
of course admitted. (Cheers.) And though L eel Sto-
well admitted that prima facie, of course a vessel sailing
under the colour of a political state must be assumed
to belong to that state, yet the papers on that oc-
casion having been overhauled, and having been found
fraudulent, the Vigilantia, which was protected by the
general proposition, was condemned as a prize. (Cheers.)
Now he must say that the house had not been fairly
treated. They bad had to consider a case which

appeared a difficult one; they were anxious to have a
guide. The hon. and learned gentleman, dignus vindice
iive.s, descended amongst them to enlighten their igno
ranee and dispel their doubts, and after exhibiting to
their.astonished eyes a few feats of intellectual ledgerde-
main, he disappeared from among them in a cloud of au-
thorities. (Laughter.) He (Sir F. Thesiger) had endea-
voured to track the course of the hon. and learned gen-
tleman, but he would venture to ask hon. members whe-

ther they were as well prepared to receive without hesi-
tation the propositions of law which were maintained
the other night by the Attorney-General as they were at
the time when they were first enunciated ? He would
next proceed to consider the position in which the ques-
tion stood at present. Assuming that the ordinance vas
a legal ordinance, suppose the register conferred upon
the Chinese residents the right during its existence to

have the temporary character of British subjects ; yet it
was !Omitted the register had expired, and therefore all
rights under it were lost. (Hear.) And this led to the
most painful part of the case. Sir J. Bowring, in his let-
ter to Consul Parkes, said—" It appears, on examina-
Lion, that the Arrow had no right to hoist the British
flag; the licence to do so expired on Sept. 27, from which
period she has not been entitled to protection." The hon.
and learned Attorney-General had said there was no du-
..

plicity in that statement. Undoubtedly there was not ;
but on Oct. 11 Sir J. Bowring writes to Commissioner
Yell that " there is no donbt the lorcha Arrow lawfully
bore the British tag." (Rear.) It was when these two
statements were brought together that the duplicity of
the case became apparent. He (Sir F. Thesiger) could not
help thinking that this very circumstance wee a strong
proof of the fact that this difficulty with the Arrow had
been eagerly laid hold of as a pretext for pushing on Sir
John Be wring's preconceived notions with respect to the
right of entry into Canton. Had it not been for this the
authorities of Hong Kong might have been satisfied with
simple reparation—a junk for a junk, as had been
suggested by the right hon. baronet. It appeared that the
fleet had captured a junk, which was thought to be a
Chinese war junk, but which turned out to be a merchant
vessel. But this might have been a sufficient reparation,
for the acts of both parties rested on intention, and if,
alth•rogh there was no actual statement of intention to
insult the British flag, the boarding of the lorcha was
taken as an insult, certainly in the seizure of this vessel,
an intention to insult being experienced, that intention
might have been more than taken for granted. He could
not say that there was much either to plead for us in
the way cf humanity and forbearance. We began by

attacking the distant forts, we proceeded to batter the
walls, and have directed the art Very against the houses
of the chief oJrninercial people. The people, it was true,
had warning to get out of the way, but he thought that
the firing of a single shot every five minutes must have
been more dreadful than even a hot continuous fire. He
was old enough, he was almost ashamed to say, to re-
member the bombardment of Copenhagen. A mightier
armament left these shores than it was possible for the
Danes to resist, but they made a feeble show of resist-
ance, and for two or three days endured the bombard.
ment of their town. He (Sir F. Thesiger) was himself
witness of that dreadful conflagration ; the loss of life
was immense ; and in the midst of all that distress there
came forth a voice from amongst the Danes, which,
after describing the horrors of the carnage—the bodies
floating on the water, the mother and child struck down
together—burst out into this pathetic apostrophe,
" Oh, Britain, queen of nations, how can your sons be
guilty of such crimes ?" (Cheers.) He trusted they
were not now about to justify similar acts. (Hear,
hear.) He could not trust himself with the utterance
of the sorrow, shame, and indignation which burnt
within him on the perusal of these papers, which he
feared would remain a lasting monument to the bad faith
of England ; nor could he now hope for one minute's
inward peace did he not seize the opportunity afforded
by the resolution of the hon. member for the West Rio-
ing to express his horror of these proceedings. (Hear.)
Sir W. F. WILLIAMS said that after the volumi-
nous arguments he had heard he should have been con-
tented to give a silent vote on this question, but that he
felt he had a duty to perform to his country and himself
—to his country because he was going to make explana-
tions which he was sure both sides of the house would
receive with pleasure, and to himself because for 26 years
he had served his country in that portion of the east that
lay between the Bosphorus and the waters of Chine.
Before the late war he had seen the Chinese at our colo-
nies of Malacca, Singapore, and Penang, where they
enriched themselves rapidly, and received the greatest
possible kindness and protection from the English. But
during all that time they were at home Practising all
those insults and injuries that led to the war that en-
sued and to treaties conferring great powers on us both
as to their country and shipping. Lord Lyn lhurst had
said in another place that our treaties with these eastern
nations placed them in an unfair and degraded position ;
but if it were so, then those nations were to blame them-
selves, as they had separated themselves from the great
family of mankind. Having made some observations on
the bad faith of the Turks and Persians, of whose morality
he said he had had 16 years' experience, the gallant gene-
ral returned to the speech of the hon. member for the
West Riding, and thanked that hon. member for the hand-
some manner in :vhich he had spoken of the officers of the
army and navy. He trusted that when the estimates came
under discussion, the hon. member would not be one of
those who by curtailing our military institutions would
seek to make us better adapted for another war. (Cheers
and laughter.) With respect to the point immediately be-
fore the house, he believed that thellinsialt complained of
had been premedidated on the part of the Chirese, and
that therefore as Englishmen they were bound to resent