The Sun.
London, England, 1861-02-26 00:00:00

SALVAGE OF LIFE.

Captain JERVIS asked the President of the Board of
Trade whether her Majesty's Government had considered
the advisability of entering into negotiations wit h foreign
maritime powers, with a view to a reciprocal re-
cognition of claims for salvage of life occurring
beyond the jurisdiction of the High Court of Admi-
ralty; and, whether the mercantile marine fund would ad-
mit of larger rewards being given in cases of salvage
attended with danger to the salvors ?
Mr. M. GIBSO.\4 said the subject to which the •hon
member's question referred had been under the considera-
tion of Government, and in his opinion it would be very
satisfactory if such negotiations as those alluded to could
be successfully carried out. However, so far as this coun-
try was concerned, the question of the claims for
salvage of life could be efficiently provided for by introduc-
ing a clause fet that,purpose in the" Merchant Shipping
Act, which it was prtiposcd by her Majesty's Government
to do. He alluded to certain rewards recently given to the
salvors of life to show that the Government had every wish
to act liberally to those whose services deserved the warmest
recognition.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the hon. member
read the clause as if it were a matter of obligation that secu-
rity should be given by creditors' assignees, whereas there
was no obligation. Under the clause creditors had power
to choose certain persons, not being creditors, to be ma •
nagers of estates, and to remunerate them for their trouble,
and it was deemed a very wise thing that they should be
enabled to impose conditions on those persons. It would
be better to leave the clause as it stood, as it conferred very
wholesome power, and could not, he thought, give offence
to any gentleman, and he hoped the hon. member would
consent to withdraw the amendment.
Mr. MOFFATT reiterated his belief that if this clause
, and clause 185 remained, the bill would be utterly worth-
I less. He had proposed his amendment at the suggestion
TELEGRAPHIC CABLES. of a number- of influential mercantile mon, and if the
Mr. G. LANGTON asked the President of the Board of Attorney-General would
which promisesill tooadoptvit lembee. shoe-'
Trade, when the report of the Commission upon Submarine ca
Telegraph Cables would be laid on the table of the house ? would withdraw it now, buwtasotherwilase rheeowojeueldt. pnraesbsle'thheo
Mr. M. GIBSON said the report was in the hands of the question to a division,
printers, and would be ready for circulation in a few days. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that if when they
TRADING COMPANIES. arrived at clause 185 the majority of the house were in
Mr. MURRAY asked the Attorney-General whether it favour of the. hon:.metaber's amendment, ho would defer to
was the intention of the Government to introduce this ses- their opinion.
mien the bill, brought from the House of Lords last sea- Mr. BO VILL thought that the clause giving power to
aion, for the incorporation, regulation, and winding •up of appoint a manager was one of the moat important clauses
trading companies, and other associations ; and, if so, whe- of the bill, and that it could scarcely be too much appre-
ther ho did not consider it would be advantageous to the elated.
house to discuss such bill in connection with the Bill for Mr. vANCE, as far as his own experience went, believed
sunending the Law of Bankruptcy and Insolvency ? that if any creditor were asked to become creditors' assig
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said that he regretted nee, and thus to confer a great obligation on the rest of the
the bill in question had not' been laid on the table of the creditors, and aethe same time told that he must give secu-
house, but it was prepared by the Board of Trade, who rity, although he would receive no remuneration whatever
claimed a property in the measure. He had no doubt, how- for his services, he would spurn the offer with the greatest
ever, that it would be shortly laid before the house. indignation. The clause, he was quite sure, would never
CORRUPT PRACTICES ACT. work well, and would not satisfy the commercial commu-
Mr. T. DUNCOMI3E asked the Secretary of State for nity, but as the Attorney-General seemed determined to
the Home Department when he intended to lay upon the insert it he could say no more.
table his Witte amend the Corrupt Practices Act? Mr. BEECROFT was understood to say that it would
Sir G. C. LEWIS said he hoped that shortly he would be better to pay the trade assignee and make him respon-
be able to lay the bill on the table. aible.
AP-FAIRS OF SYRIA. The AT TORNEY•GENERAL said the principle of the
Mr. E. iAllirEa` '
Affairs, asked the Secretary of State for Foreign clause
whisthei It had decided in was borrowed from Scotland, where it had worked
been decided in conference on the
affairs of Syria, at I. •admirably. In that country an official factor was appointed
, that the occupation of Syria
French trooies shall Ve by over an estate, and received remuneration; a committee of
hued Originid._ , _ Prolonged beyond the period stipu-
lY u'Y "tam convention • and, if so, for what creditors controlled and advised him in the execution of his
duty; and according to the best information he had been
period : And whether' the representative'
of the Ottoman
Porte, present in such conference, protested against any enabled to get, the expense of winding up a bankrupt estate
longer occupation ?in Scotland was about 13 or 14 per cent., whereas, in Eng-
Lord J. RUSSELL
was understood to reply to both land, it was between 33 and 34 per cent. There was a great
questions in the negative. concurrence of opinion in the mercantile community in
MR. LAING AND THE. GREAT WESTERN OF favour of the clause.
CANADA RAILWAY COMPANY. The clause, with some verbal amendments, was then
Mr. VANSITTART asked the Secretary of State for agreed to; as was also 130, relating to " certificate of ap•
t India whether his attention hat' been drawn to the Re pointment."
of the Committee of Investigation appointed by the Great Upon clause 131, "removal of creditors' assignee,"
Western of Canada Railway Company, in which charges had The ATTORNEY-GENE RAL said he thought it would
been made affecting the charaiter of Mr. Laing, the Finan-
be desirable to insert the word " manager" after "creditors'
cial Secretary of tho Legislative Council of Calcutta ; and
alleigne"throughout the clause, so as to give power to the
if so, whether it was theintention of her-Majesty's Govern_,
majority of the creditors to remove . a manager in case of
went to cause inquiry to
imseenduet. The hon. and learned gentleman proposed an
be made as to the truth or other-
wise of the charges in question ? amendment; for that purpose, which was agreed to, and the
Sir C. WOOD.said that his attention had been called on c 'cur I'nka added to the bill.
ulrB 132 and 133 were a eed, te wit4lit amendment.
Thursday morning to a report which appeared in the public . 0
etaugrs 134, ;"1,1,0 nicfrloic:43 —'
papery relative to this subject, which took him as well as D . SCHOLEFIELD proposed after the words, "the

THE SUN, LONDON,

Bank of England.," to insert "or sttch bank as the creditors
at each iiieetiiig may direct." He said no harm totild be
done by this. The creditors were dealing with their own
money, and it seemed but fair they should choose where it
should be invested.

Mr. MURRAY said he would propose an amendment
which would come before that of the hon. member. He
proposed to leave out the words, "not necessarijy retained
for current expenses," he thought the retention of those
words would leave a look-hole for the assignee keeping
money in his hands which ought to be in the bank.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought the words

" necessarilyretained for current expenses," imposed a great
check. The inconvenience of striking out the words would
be that the creditors' assignee would bo compelled to pay
every small sum ho received, even down to £5, into the
bank, and ho could not get anything out without going to
the official assignee, and the result would be that costs
would be incurred for getting out every £5, £lO, or £2O, as
it might be required.
Mr. GLYN said there was a great deal of observation
abroad as to the large balance that would be kept in the
Bank of England on this account. He was not prepared to
say that some commission ought not to be charged by the
Bank, but at the same time it ought to be regulated.
Mr. Alderman SALOMONS had always heard in the
City of London the opinion that for commercial service
there should be commercial remuneration, and he could not
see why the creditors' assignee should not have some re-
muneration for his services. The great objection now made
was to the large sums carried off by the official assignee,
and creditors had felt that it would be better if some of
their own body had the management of their own affairs.
Ho thought it was better the money should be paid into the
Bank of England.
After a few words from Mr. AN RTON and Mr. EDWIN
JAMES, the amendment was negatived.
Mr. MURRAY remarked that the last return showed
that the average balance in the Bank of England standing
in the name of the Accountant-General of Bankruptcy was
from £BO,OOO to £100,003, and they charged for keeping
that account between £3,000 and £4,000 a year. There
was no charge for receiving the money, but they charged
ss. per cent. for paying it eat. As the Bank had always so
large a balance in its hands, be thought no charge ought to
be made for paying the money out.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he hoped some ar-
rangement might be made with the Bank by which this
charge might be reduced. At the same time it was but
fair to the Bank to state that these payments were made in
different parts of the country, and there certainly ought to
be some percentage to the Bank for making these payments,
The hon. gentleman might rest assured that this subject
would not escape his attention, and that great care would
be taken in endeavouring to make a more advantageous ar-
rangement. With regard to the amendment proposed by
the hon. member for Birmingham, he was sorry ho could
not consent to it. When the alteration was made by which
official assignees were appointed, the system of having
private banks was entirely put an end to, and he thought
rightly, for under the old system when the creditors chose
the bank they were never able to ascertain whether certain
sums of money might not be left in those banks undistri-
buted. Accordingly when the new system was introduced
the official assignees exerted themselves, and they found
very large sums of money that were retained by different
bankers throughout the country who had profited by the
retention of those moneys for an indefinite period of time,
and which the creditors would never have heard of but for
this new arrangement. He could not by any means con-
sent that money should be left in the hands of private
bankers. He thought it very injurious to permit
bankers to bid as it were for creditors' money by offering
them an amount of interest. lie hoped the committee
would adhere to the present practice in this respect, which
ensured to the whole body of creditors every shilling that
was paid in, which might not be the case if the money was
left in the hands of private bankers.
Mr. SCHOLEFIELD said heshould not press his amend-
ment against the opinion of the Attorney- General, and he
withdrew it.
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 135, which provides that the official assignee

shall collect debts under £lO,
Mr. PAGET moved to insert, after "duo to the estate,"
the words, "as the creditors' assignee shall require." He
thought the realising of the assets would be best accom-
plished by the creditors' assignee.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said a little consideration
would probably satisfy the hon. gentleman that his amend-
ment would never answer. Take a debt of £l5O or £5OO,
and suppose the creditors' assignee instructed the official
assignee to get it in ; who was to employ the solicitor ? The
creditors' assignee would have virtually to do that, and
therefore the proposal was merely a long roundabout pro-
cess with regard to the collection of large debts. With re-
gard to small ones, however, the case was different. The
official assignee had a number of clerks, and accordingly as
soon as a man was bankrupt he would send round a circular
to persons who owed the estate trifling sums, and require
them at once to pay ; or, in the event of their not doing so,
he would proceed against them by summons, or would have
recourse to the county court. He would rather give the
whole duty into the hands of the official assignee than leave
it on the indotinite footing proposed.
Mr. PAGET requested that the clause might be post-
poned.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said if the hon. gentle

man had any well-considered clause he might on the report
move to substitute it for the one now in the bill ; but to
postpone the clause would only lead to confusion.
Mr. ROLT observed that if the proposal of the bill were
some well-defined scheme of making the official assignee,
paid by salary, act under the supervision of the creditors, it
would be intelligible. But as the bill stood, with the divided
functions of the two assignees, he was afraid it would not
be found to work well.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said there never had
been more prophecies of failure than with regard to the
Testamentary Jurisdiction Bill; and yet no law had been
found to work more quietly or more efficiently than that.
lle thought there ought to be an efficient audit of Ail
assignees' accounts; and it was a simple process for obtain-
ing that audit which excited the alarm of the hon. and
learned gentleman.

➢lr. AYRTON suggested that some difficulty might be
experienced under the clause in case of a business being
carried on by the creditors, and he therefore recommended
the insertion of the words " if the assignees should so
require."
Mr. COLLIER thought the clause was better as it stood ;
and it was then agreed to.

On clause 141, " Pay, half-pay, and pension of bankrup'
to be applicable for creditors."

Mr. AYRTON moved that it be omitted altogether. By
a subsequent clause (163), power was given to make any
future property of the bankrupt available for the payment
of his debts, provided that he had been guilty of any mis-
conduct towards his creditors. This clause was, however,
an absolute one, and was quite irrespective of any question
of conduct. He (the hon, gentleman) could not see any dis-
tinction between the position of a public servant and the
servant of a railway company or a private merchant. If the
bankrupt had anything in the nature of property, let it be
made liable in the same manner as other property ; but he
did not perceive how a remuneration for services to be per-
formed could conic under that designation. He did not desire
however, to deprive the court of the proposed power; only
let it be made a general one, applicable to all persons alike,
and not merely to persons in the public service.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the clause was copied
almost verbatim from the Ist Vic. c. 110, a. 156, the present
Insolvent Act. The principle was that when a man pos-
sessed halfpay, or a retiring pension, or a settled salary for
life, it was not right that he should be left to enjoy the
whole of it while his creditors remained unpaid. There
was in fact no difference between a salary of £l,OOO a year
for life and a life estate of £l,OOO a year. except that in
justice to the padre service the possessor of it (night '—
allowed sufficient for his maintenance, so that he 'eight be
able to fulfil the duties of his office. As to making the
clause universal, it must be remembered that persons in
private employment only held their situations durante belie
placito, and were liable at any time to be dismissed. It would
therefore be idle to attempt to deal with their incomes. The
only question was whether the clause went far enough;
because, in the case of retiring salaries, it was doubtful
whether the whole ought not to be taken like any other life
interest.

Mr. AYRTON said the principle of the Insolvent Act
was wholly different from that of the present bill; and
therefore the hon. gentleman's reasoning from analogy did
not apply. Under the Insolvent Act a person only oh' ahted
security from arrest, and did not get dear from his liabilities;
but the principle of this bill was that on giving up all his
property the bankrupt should be entirely discharged from
his debts.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that retiring pen-
sions wore not permitted to be assigned except with the
consent of the department. This therefore could not be
made part of the general assignment of a bankrupt's pro-
perty, and must be dealt with specially. Under the old law
the insolvent might be called up do anno in annum, and
ordered to set apart so much of his salary as the court might
think fit. The present bill would give power to deal with
it once for all.

The clause was then agreed to.
Clause 142, " Sequestration of profits and benefices."
Mr. AYRTON objected also to this clause. The salary
of a clergyman was no property of his own, but was in-
tended for the benefit of his parishioners ; and it was of
the utmost impertanco that he should continue to receive
it, to enable him to discharge the duties of his office. He
thought the commissioners had the best right to the fund,
and it ought to be preserved for their sakes.

Mr. COLLIER said he did not sej why clergymen should
be-exempted from the necessity of paying their debts more
than other people. It seemed to him to be only an extension
of the preceding clause, which related to pensions.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was pleased to find that
the hon. and learned member for the Tower Hamlets was
so great a friend to till clergy. But he thou ht tho interests
of the clergy would be best consulted by making no invi-
dious distinction. When a sequestration took place, the
bishop stepped in, and an appropriation was made of part
of the emoluments, in order to py the stipend of a curate.
,He had introduced a similar provision into this clause.
Nr, AYIZTON said that if the Attorney-Gewral had