The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-09 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 9, 1859.

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VERY DEAF PERSON in the Kingdom
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be the duty of the Liberal party to look carefully
and well to see who should succeed them, that a
really strong and vigorous Liberal Government
might be formed who would really meet the wishes
anxieties, and just demands of the people. He
hoped statesmen of the Whig party had ,learnt a
lesson from experience, that the new administra-
tion would be based upon larger and more liberal
principles, and that all differences of Whigs and
Radicals would be merged in the desire to have
a united Government, which would really carry
on the Government of the country to the satisfaction
Of the people. So long as a new Government fol-
lowed this course he would give them his most
earnest support, but the moment they shrunk from
performing their duty he would desert them, and
go into the ranks of the independent party. (Hear,
hear.) Referring to his past conduct, the hon.
member said, since the present Government had
been in power he had upon no occasion given any
factious vote against them. He was willing to
allow that they had brought forward many mea-
sizes which had been long wished for, but when
the time of trial came, and they brought forward
their Reform Bill, one member after another de-
serted them, and at the present moment it was
doubtful whether they would remain a government
till the 21st. (A Voice— How about the Conspi-
racy Bill ?") He voted with Lord Palmerston upon
that occasion. (Cries of " Shame.") He did so
because he was not prepared to withdraw his en-
tire, confidence in Lord Palmerston. He regretted
that his lordship brought in the bill, but he did
not think the matter of sufficient importance to
justify him in assisting to turn out a Liberal Go-
vernment and to bring in a Tory one. (A Voice—
" That won't do.") He could say that he gave an
honest, conscientious vote upon the occasion. Re-
verting to the Reform Bill, Mr. Schneider expressed
his opinion that the proposed system of voting
papers would be a sham, and that it was an attempt
to shelve the ballot. :He would have nothing
to do with voting papers. What he wanted, and
what he would always vote for, was the ballot,
pure and simple. He hoped another Reform Bill
would be brought before the House of Commons,
and he thought this would be the case before a dis-
solution took place, because he did not believe that
Lord Derby, 'in the face of a bill which he had the
untlacity to bring before the country, would dare to
dissolve Parliament ; if he did, he would have a
much larger and more vigorous majority against
him than at present. (Cheers.)
Lord BURY, M.P., next addressed the meeting,
and was very cordially received. His lordship said,
when he appeared before his constituents a few
weeks ago every one was in a state of expectancy
with regard to the Ministry, who had now declared
themselves, The Government then stood pledged to
bring forward a Reformß ill, and the reformers of Eng-
land were pledged not to give them any factious op-
position till they knew the details of their measure.
The Government, who had for a certain time traded
on the support of the Liberals—who had obtained
that support by the fictitious pledge that they were
going to give the country a Reform Bill—had now
shown themselves in their true colours ; and the
honest members of the Opposition could rise in their
places in Parliament and appear before their con-
stituents to announce that they should offer uncom-
promising hostility to any such measures as that
which had been brought forward. (Cheers.) Per-
haps the Liberals would have given this opposition
with less chance of ultimate success if they had
offered it a few weeks ago instead of offering it now,
because all sections of the Liberal party had at
length, to the joy of all true reformers, consented
to waive minor differences. Lord John Russell and
Lord Palmerston, too long the leaders of two sec-
tions of the party, had at length fused those two
sections in one; and on the second reading of the
bill, which the present meeting was convened to
discuss, that old reformer—Lord John Russell—
(cheers)—would be seen band in hand with Lord
Palmerston—(cheers)—giving his vote against a
measure which had disgraced the House of Com-
mons. (Cheers.) It would hardly have been a
matter of surprise if Lord Derby had not brought
forward a Reform Bill at all, for not very long since
the noble earl announced, in his place in the House
of Lords, that his mission was to stem the tide of
democracy, while Mr. Disraeli said that reform was
subversive of the Constitution, and destructive to
the best interests of society. When he (Lord Bury)
remembered these things, he could not see that
Lord Derby would have been wrong in not bring-
ing. forward any measure at all. In that case the
Liberals would have known what ground to take ;
they would have opposed him from first to last ; and
Lord Derby would never have remained in office
with the support of' the Liberal party. Lord Derby
had obtained the support of the Liberal party by
always saying he had a Reform Bill in his pocket,
and that he would bring it out at the proper time.
After nearly a year it now appeared from
the confessions—or rather the honest state-
ments—of those who had been obliged to
leave the Cabinet, that up to the middle
of January, 1859, there was no reform bill at all.
Lord Derby had acquired the support of the Liberal
party by saying that he intended to bring forward
a measure of reform, and every vote thus acquired
was an act of political immorality. Mr. Walpole
and Mr. Henley, who had deserted Lord Derby's
Cabinet, saw what a hollow sham this Reform Bill
was, and they said like honest men, " Perhaps we do
not agree with the whole of the Liberal party as to
what the Reform Bill is to be ; but if it is to be any-
thing at all, let it be something honest and true,
and don't pull out to us such a sham as this." It
was upon this ground that they left the Cabinet;
the corner stone had fallen, and the whole imposing
fabric must follow it to the ground. (Cheers.) It
might be a matter of regret that such men as Sir
Edward Lytton, Sir John Pakington, and Lord
Stanley, from whom better things had been hoped,
should have yielded to the pressure put upon it by.
the Derby Cabinet. It only proved that the ques-
tion of reform must be entrusted to those who had
already tried their hands at it ; thus it must be left
to those who understand the subject, and not to
those who merely use it as a stepping-stone and
instrument to keep them in power. (Cheers.) If
the ministerial bill were passed and carried, the
questions of extension of the suffrage, vote by ballot,
and re-distribution of seats would still remain;
it would not in any degree alleviate the pressure
which was felt or satisfy the people What did
reform mean ? If it meant merely a little shuffling
of seats, a disfranchisement of 40s. freeholders from
voting in counties, and a uniform franchise of £lO,
the present bill was all very well ; but he had
alway understood that a Reform Bill meant an
extension of the franchise passed in 1832. (A voice
—" Manhood suffrage.") It was acknowledged
by the advocates of the measure of 1832 that it did
not give to the.working classes their fair share of
power. In the measure of 1832 the power which was
originally in the hands of the higher classes was
given into the hands of the middle classes. The
working classes put their shoulders to the wheel
to assist in obtaining this measure of justice for
the middle classes ; and the understanding was
that when the time came those who were then
enfranchised should lend their influence to perfect
that which was so well begun. It seemed to him
that the middle classes would forget their duty and
lie unworthy of the confidence shown them by the
working classes if they omitted, when it was in
their power, to throw out a Reform Bill which only
nominally carried out this object. The growing
intelligence of the working classes deserved some
recognition, and every circumstance combined to
show that the present was a suitable time to have
a Reform Bill carried out as it fully deserved.
Having thus before them the heads of what a
Reform Bill ought to be, let them see how the pre-
sent Reform Bill carried out these principles. It
was proposed to establish a £lO franchise ; did that
h' With
ol- admit the working classes? (" No
re-
gardcol-
league, te o,
whoth e
understoodngs bankt h
e franchise,suh.i
eetave)ilsl n,
said that
.'
it would be equally inefficacious. The " fancy
franchise" proposed to admit clergymen, medical
men, and barristers; but these gentlemen had for
the most part the franchise already. Was is not an
insult to enfranchise them in the Reform Bill?
Were they the working classes ? He did not ob-
ject to the franchise ; he thought it a very good
one, but if there were any clergymen or barristers
unenfranchised they surely lived in a £lO house.
(Laughter and cheers.) There was to be a change
with regard to the 40s. freeholder who lived in a
borough and had a vote for it and also for the
county in which it was situated ; but it was no
enfranchisement, no boon to the working classes.
In pursuing the provisions of the bill you got no-
thing for your money ; it was totally unsatisfac-
tory. The proposed £lO franchise in counties was,
per se, a good measure—it was simply Mr. Locke
King's Bill, for which his honourable colleague and
himself had voted, but as it now came from the
hands of the Tory Government it amounted to just
nothing at all, because it was coupled vk ith an addi-
tion which rendered the whole nugatory. Mr.
Disraeli said, the extension of the franchise

to £lO in counties would increase the number
of voters to the extent of 200,000 ; but .a deduc-
tion of. 100,000 must be made, for the county
voters living in boroughs who were disfran-

chised, leaving only 99,000 remaining; and as the
areas of boroughs were to be increased, another
slice ought to be taken off the 99,000. If all the
disfranchising clauses in this nominally enfran-
chising bill were looked to, it would be found that
the representation of the people would. remain
pretty nearly cis at present, with this exception,
that a more dependent class of voters would be
substituted for the 40s. freeholders, whom the
Tories found they could not manage, and whom
they therefore wished to destroy. With regard to
the mode in which it was proposed that votes
should be given, what did the Tory Government
suggest ? Why, that people possessing a 40s. free-
hold anywhere might send a letter to the returning
officer, stating that they voted for a particular per-
son. The whole tendency of legislation for years
past had been to get rid of out-voters in boroughs,
but here was a clause not only to give out-voters
facilities for voting, but to create votes. What
was to prevent a large proprietor from constituting
as many 40s. freeholds as he liked, and then from
his house in London sending down his voting
papers for them all ? It seemed to him (Lord
Bury) that this was nothing but another gross
sham—another method by which a landed proprie-
tor could, if he wished to do so, swamp a whole
constituency of a small borough, if he only had
money enough. The remedy was at hand in the
ballot, which ought to form part of any Reform
Bill, and for which he should be prepared to vote.
The present bill would not be passed if the country
was united in its dislike of it. He would not echo'
the observations of his hon. colleague, that it would
be thrown out by a nuijority of 150, for he believed
the Cabinet would crumble to pieces, and that the
measure would never come to a second reading at
all. (Cheers.) In that case there would not only
be a majority of 150 against it, but a majority of
all the millions of England. If the second reading
did come on, he believed he should speak the senti-
ments of his constituents if he lifted up his voice
strongly against this iniquitous bill, and if he de-
nounced all the shams it contained, and told the
Ministry in the name of the people of Norwich and
of that England of which Norwich formed a part,
that they would have none of their bill, but would
have their room instead of their places. (Cheers.)
The resolution was then put and carried.
Mr. TILLETT was received with repeated rounds
of applause. He said—Mr. Chairman, the resolu-
tion I have to move is this : " That the great ano-
maly exhibted in the present representative system
is the almost entire exclusion of the industrial popu-
lation from electoral power, and that no measure
will be acceptable to the people which does not to
a large extent remedy that grievance and injustice;
and this meeting declares that inasmuch as large
numbers of electors are dependent upon others, the
real sentiments of the community cannot be ascer-
tained without the ballot ; and further, that to
realise the true theory of representationeonstituents
should have voices in Parliament, corresponding
with their population and importance." Mr. Chair-
man, I humbly conceive that that is the sum and
substance of the whole matter. (Cheers.) We
have put there in plain English what we mean and
what we want, and just what we expect that any
Ministry that seeks the confidence of the country
will carry out for us in Parliament. Sir, lam not
here to serve a party turn to-night. (Applause.)
I am not here to help with my feeble voice to turn
my Lord Derby out, nor to put my Lord Palmer-
ston in. (Cheers.) If we are to have do-nothing
men in the Treasury benches, I would rather that
these do-nothing men should be called Tories than
that they should be falsely called Liberals. lam
here, I say, not to turn Lord Derby out or to help
to ,turn him out, nor to put any other 'men in—l
am here simply to lift up my voice to say what are
the principles which should be recognised by the
Government of this enlightened country, and the
great principle upon which I stand to-night is this
—the enfranchisement of the working classes.
I beg my Lord Bury, and I beg my friend Mr.
Schneider, to go to Parliament deeply impressed
with this, that we are wide awake, that we under-
stand what we want, that we understand what the
people want—that the great demand is that the
industrial population of this country shall be no
longer continued in a state of disfranchisement, and
almost of serfdom. (Hear, hear.) We claim that
those men who by their strong arms are prepared
to fight when their country is in danger, and who
are the base of the great pyramid of the nation, that
they should be recognised as really a portion of the
community, and should be allowed to give their
opinions on those great questions and discussions
which concern their lives and interests. (Cheers.)
I care not in what way it is done, but this I do
care for, that the hundreds of thousands of the
working men of England, now beyond the pale of
the constitution, shall be brought within it, and I
beg our representatives to have their. eyes upon this
important question. We may possibly have such a
measure proposed in Parliament, either by inten-
tion or by error, as would only nominally be a re-
form—one that would only offer in words, and
would not in fact confer the suffrage on the work-
ing man. I have, I must confess, a great fear of
that rating suffrage as it is called—(cheers)—and I
beg our members, if they speak on this question, to
speak plainly, that we are afraid of that rating
provision by which, under a compounding system
or under some system of jugglery, working men
would be excluded from the franchise. (Cheers.)
We must have no mistake about the matter. What
we want is that the working men, or at all events
the better half of the working men shall be at once
admitted to the electoral roll. (Cheers.) We do not
care how it is done, but we do care, I say, that it be
done. And now, Mr. Chairman, let us understand.
I do not believe in a cut and dried uniformity; I
do not believe in men coming on a platform and
exhibiting to the country that they are perfectly
one whenthey arc not so. I believe it does good to
speak out. (Cheers.) Why I am known by you
all as a radical reformer—(cheers)—but there are
gentlemen around me who do not go so far as I do.
Well, they have of course as much right to their
conscientious opinions as I have to mine—(hear)—
and when we can find common ground and can meet
on that common ground, we are justified—and I say
it gives strength to our movement to tell the coun-
try that here we are—Whigs, Conservative Whigs
here we are ; very slow coaches indeed—fast
coaches, very fast coaches, too fast some will
say—(laughter)—that here we are all travelling
the same road to-right; here we are all
agreed in this one thing, that we won't have
this bill of Lord Derby's at any price----(loud
cheers)—and all are agreed that Lord Derby has
forfeited the confidence of the country, and the
sooner he is out the better. (Great cheering.) But,
gentlemen, let there be no mistake. We are not
perfectly agreed on the next point ; we are not pre-
cisely agreed as to the length and extent to which
the bill should go. (Hear, hear.) I for one have
great misgivings about that Lord Palmerston.
(Cheers and laughter.) He has a great horror, we
understand, of American institutions, so have I of
that institution of Barnum—(laughter)—that in-
stitution, the art of money-making and humbug.
Only substitute " place-hunting' for " money-
making," letting the word "humbug" stand, and
that seems to be a qualification which my Lord
Palmerston has learnt either from America or some-
where else. (Cheers.) Why, gentlemen, he ha's
been very quiet lately; he has not said much about
reform ; no, he has been watching the opposite
benches, now and then chatting confidentially with
the illustrious Hayter. (Laughter.) He has said
"Let them alone ; ' he has watched them and
watched them, and let them deceive themselves into
the belief that there is no feeling in the country for
reform, and that they might bring forward a namby-
pamby bill ; and now Lord Palmerston has caught
them in his trap. Now they have brought forward
a measure based on this belief that there is no re-
form feeling in the country ; and what does Lord
Palmerston say ? Come, my little wagtails, come
and be killed." (Laughter.)
" Come, my little wagtails, come and be killed,
The customers are waiting, and their bellies must be
filled;
Dilly, dilly, dilly, come and be killed,
The customers aro waiting, and their bellies must bo
filled."
(Renewed laughter.) That is what he says, and so
he comes to those dear little ducks, who have been
swimming so pleasantly on the ornamental water
near St. James's-park, and says, " Come and be
killed." (Applause.) Yes, he has played his game
very cleverly; he has led them into the trap, and
there they are ; but, gentlemen, let us have an eye to
the game. Our game is not to serve my Lord Palmer-
ston at the expense of Lord Derby—(cheers)—our
game is to take care of ourselves and our rights ;
our game is to make every Government impossible
which shall refuse to do justice to the people.
(Cheers.) I confess I have much more faith in Lord
John Russell than I have in Lord Palmerston.
(Loud cheers.) 1 cannot but remember that the
name of Russell stands gloriously eminent on the
historical records of our country. (Hear, hear.)
Lord John Russell is not a patriot merely of yes-
terday ; be is not a weathercock who has gone
round with every wind, but he is one of
the main authors of the Reform Bill of
1832, and I say it is appropriate, it is becoming
that the people of England should trust to him the

PRICE 4D. STAMPED, SD.

carrying out and the carrying on to perfection that
great measure in which he advocated the rights of
the people, in which he, through many years of
difficulty and contention, fought a battle which but
few men could have fought. (Cheers.) But even
my Lord John Russell I would not trust implicitly,
for he belongs to the aristocratic order, and it may
be that his own personal views go beyond those of
the clique by which he may be surrounded; it may
be that a little pressure, alittle merciful coercion,
will do a great deal, even to my Lord John Russell,
in helping him to carry on any great scheme which
he may have in contemplation. (Applause.) Let us
tell him, through our hon. members now present,
that we are ready to trust him, but that we trust him
with our eyes open. (Cheers.) We trust him with
our hands extended, which we expect to have filled
with good things, and we will open our mouths to
receive anything he may have for us, but we will
keep our eyes open too, to make sure that it is worth
accepting. (Cheers.) Why, sir, this measure of
reform brought in by Lord Derby has been alluded
to sufficiently already ; but there are one or -two
points in it so offensive to the working man, that I
am sure I am justified, at the risk of occupy-
ing you too log (cries of "Go on") —in
calling attention to them. It is proposed that if a
working man has £6O put into the savings bank,
he is entitled to vote. Now, working men, how
are you by anything short of a miracle to get £6O
put into the savings bank ? (A voice —" We
have enough to do to feed ourselves.") I can
understand a single man earning good wages being
enabled to lay by a shilling or two, or more, every
week, until he does accumulate this £6O, or some-
thing beyond it, in the savings bank ; but as soon
as he thinks of.making a fool of himself by marry-
ing—(laughter and cheers)—as soon as he thinks
of opening some._ greengrocer's shop, or as soon as
he thinks of entering, into some sort of business to
raise and improve his condition—the very moment
he thus draws the money out of the savings bank
for the purpose of benefitting himself—for the pur-
pose of furnishing his house or really improving his
status in the country,lthen Lord Derby tells him he
is utterly unworthy of a vote, and his vote is lost.
(Cheers.) There is something, working men, offen-
sive, grossly offensive, in that provision. Why if a
man marries, if a man has a large family, if he by
daily work, by working on, almost night as well as
day, provides means of maintaining his wife and
children honourably and properly—then that man
is declared to be unfit to exercise the franchise.
(Cries of " Shame !") Why, sir, I believe there is
no man in the country, no class of men, more de-
servißg of a good word, more deserving of a kind
word, more deserving of being trusted by the classes
above them, than that honest artisan who delights
himself in seeing his wife happy, his children well
zducated, well clothed, well fed, who is at the head
of a poor community it may be, but of a happy
community ; who works hard and lives honestly,
who does his duty to his neighbour and loyally
obeys the law. (Applause.) Is that a class of men
to be treated with insult ? Why, when I was here
last, I told you about the militia, and was sadly
blown up for alluding to the militia. They are
such a proud class of men these militiamen—(laugh-
ter)—that because I did not speak in complimentary
phrases of them, I was attacked by a sergeant of
militia. (Laughter.) Now, I did not wish to say
anything disrespectful of those worthy gentlemen,
who are prepared at any moment to go and
fight the enemies of the country ; but I did say
this, and I hope you will excuse me for indulging
such an idea, that if a militiaman, after five years'
service, was entitled—as Mr. Walpole, instructed,
I apprehend, by his colleagues, considered him
entitled—to the franchise, surely the honest, indus-
trious artisan, after having five years, ten years,
aye, fifteen or twenty years, many of them, served
their country in working industriously and honestly
in maintaining their families, in obeying the laws,
in contributing to the wealth and strength of the
country—surely it cannot be right to say a five
years' militiaman is entitled to vote, and that the
twenty years' artisan is not. (Cheers.) Well, next
comes the proviso that persons who have £lO a year
derived from money in the funds or the Bank of
England may be entitled to vote. How many
working men in Norwich have £lO derived from
money in the funds, or have £3OO invested in Go-
vernment stocks ? (Laughter.) Why, my friends,
it is an insult to propose to enfranchise the working
classes of this country by a provision that would
not touch one man in a thousand of the working
classes. (Cheers.) Well, then, there is another
proposal that the pensioner—the man who is in
receipt of £2O a year as a pension—the man who
by service in the Government offices, or in the
revenue department has learned to be bedient to
the Government, has learned, by any means he may
be employed and directed to use, to serve the
Government, the man who is cleared out by a long
course of training of any independent thought—
that man, if he has but £2O a year coming from
Government to keep him steady, may be allowed
to vote ; but the poor artisan who has more than
£2O a year, not enjoyed in leisure, but earned week
by week by his toil—he is not to have the right
of voting. And why ? Because he calls no man
his master. (Cheers.) I mean calls no man master
in regard to those matters of conscience and ofjudg-
meat wherein no man should own a master upon
earth. (Applause.) Well, Mr. Chairman, these are
the features of this measure, and they strike me as
conveying an insult to the working classes, and on
that ground I call upon you to-night to unite with
other Liberals of this city in denouncing the Go-
vernment measure. I call upon you to petition
Parliament to dismiss both them and it together.
(Cheers.) Men have risen up, and with tears in
their eyes, and with trembling limbs, have said
that if this measure passed then the sun of Eng-
land would have set for ever, and there would be
ruin and wide-spread desolation throughout all our
dominions. Yet from time to time have those pro-
phecies been falsified. And now, when we come
forward and claim, on behalf of the working men,
their right to some position in the constitution
which they uphold and defend—some voice in the
making of those laws which they obey—some re-
cognised place under the sway of the beloved Queen
whom we all serve—(cheers)—we are told there is
to be desolation—that there is to be the overthrow
of everything that is noble and grand in our con-
stitution. Why, gentlemen, it is a mere delusion,
it. is the raising up a bug-bear to frighten the
nervous old ladies—(laughter)—and lead people
astray. The honest working men of this country
are too loyal—they have too great a love of order,
they are too much afraid of confusion and tur-
moil, and bloodshed—they are too much afraid,
I say, of all these evils ever to risk them by a
revolution. I say that those are the men who
make revolutions who resist the just demands of
the people—(cheers)--who, year after year, refuse
to render justice to the working classes—who
say " no" to the reasonable demands of the people,
until the people are wrought up to frenzy, and arc
driven to snatch what ought to have been given to
them long ago. I hope, Mr. Chairman, the result
of this crisis will be nothing delusive to the people,
but a real, honest, thorough Reform Bill, which
shall enable hundreds of thousands of men to recog-
nise their interest in the constitution, and to cause
them to feel, what they have never felt before, that
in a free country they are truly free. (Applause.)
Mr. C. N. BOLINGBROKE seconded the resolu-
tion, which was carried nein. con.
Thanks to the chairman closed the proceedings.