The Sun.
London, England, 1861-06-11 00:00:00

tory measure till they met that difficulty directly and
frankly. The matter ought to be carefully watched, be-
cause the preponderating power of the urban constituencies
enabled their representatives to impose upon the country
measures to benefit the towns at the expense of the purses
of the rural constituencies. As the right hon. gentleman
has based his argument solely on the ground of numbers
he must point out that, if he adhered to this ground, the
rural districts were entitled to every increase in the number
of seats. He therefore hoped the house would reject this
proposal by a large majority.

Lord ENFIELD said there were only 15toroughs which
equalled Chelsea in rental. He thought no other borough
was so well entitled as Chelsea to an increast d share in the
representation.

Mr. DISRAELI said before they came to a division on
this important clause it was really necessary that they
should be satisfied with the data on which the Government
based their conclusions. He certainly must say that he was
astonished at some of the figures which had been given by
the right hon. baronet. If he had quoted them even from
memory the house would not have attributed it to defective
memory, but when he came down to the house armed with
official documents, the discrepancies were all the more sur-
prising. It was true the right hon. baronet had cheerfully
accepted some corrective suggestions that were offered, but
the fact remained that the data of the Government were not
to be depended upon, and it was upon the correctness of
these figures that the right hon. gentleman rested the whole
of his defence of this clause. The right hon. baronet said
the population of Birmingham was 112,000, and afterwards
correcting himself, said it was 212,000, whereas it was nearly
300,000. (Hear.) Then, again, he stated that the popula-
tion of Liverpool was 290,000. He must say he was asto-
nished at that figure. Whatever mightbe the ultimate effect
of the American war upon that city, he thought the dimi-
nution within the last ten years must have been very extra-
ordinary, and on refet ence to the last census, he found that
the population of the Parliamentary borough of Liverpool
was 443,000. (Hear.) •

Sir G. LEWIS said two series of returns had been made,
and he had only received the latest return that day. He was
not aware that there were two series of returns, and that
from which he copied was the superintendent-general's. He
however thought that the right hon. gentleman would find
that the figures which he quoted were correct.
Mr. DISRAELI—No doubt the right hon. baronet

quoted correctly ; but then, although they were the same
names, they were not the same numbers. They had, how-
ever, certain statements founded on numerical facts, and it
was really no excuse for the right hon. baronet to say that
his figures were correct. For instance, it was stated that the
iz,p441ati.,74 of Manchester was 220,000, but he found it to be
320,000. Now, taking the Parliamentary population, it
seemed to him that the hon. baronet was altogether mis-
taken. The right hon. baronet, however, instead of taking
population, had laid other grounds before the committee.
Now he (Mr. Disraeli) must say it was no ground to say
that, according to population as the right hon. baronet stated
it, so ought to be the distribution of members. The conclu-
sion, then, that the right hon. baronet arrived at with re-
spect to Chelsea, as compared with Liverpool, Manchester,
and Birmingham, he (Mr. Disraeli) had shown to be utterly
erroneous. (Hear, hear.) Well, then, upon what grounds
did the right hon. baronet propose to proceed ? The right
hon. baronet had chosen his own ground ; but they had a
proposition by the hon. member forNorthamptonshire before
them which was deserving the most serious consideration of
the committee, while, on the other hand, that proposed by
the Government they had not brought forward a single
argument to support. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. LOCKE thought the right hon. gentleman had not
made out in any way a case against the proposition of the
right hon. baronet (Sir G. C. Lewis). The right hon. baronet
had stated that the population of London had increased
within the last few years to an extent 44400,000, which was
not only a large amount of population but a greater increase
than that of any other country. The inference, therefore,
was that in the appropriation of seats a member should be
given to Chelsea and to Kensington. (Hear, hear.) Now
what was the ground upon which it was proposed to dis-
tribute the members ? Why, simply on the ground of
population. (Cries of " Divide, divide.") Hon. members
interrupted, but he, as a metropolitan member, had a
right to be heard. (Hear, hear, and Divide, divide.)
He assured hon. members who were interrupting him
that it was not his intention to sit down until he sue.
ceeded in obtaining a hearing. (Hear, hear, laughter,
and cries of "Divide.') He repeated that population was
that upon which they should go—(hear, hear)—and he
contended that the metropolis was entitled to an additional
member. (Hear, hear.)

Sir J. GRAHAM said with reference to the remark
which had been made by the hon, and learned member for
Southwark, he begged to assure him that he (Sir J. Gra-
ham) by no means intended to run the London University
against the claims of Kensington and Chelsea. (Hear,
hear.) When he gave notice to bring forward a claim on
behalf of the London University, he said that he meant to
support the principle of the Government in giving a mem-
ber to Kensington and Chelsea. He was told that he was
not blindly partial to taking mere numbers as the standard;
but it appeared that Kensington and Chelsea had not only
a population of 130,000 but they had contributed to local
and general taxation so much as one million annually.
Now that was a combination of population and wealth, and
on the whole he was of opinion that Government had acted
rightly in proposing to give one member to Kensington and
Chelsea. (Hear.) His hon. friend the member for Norfolk
had referred to the difference in the proportions of the ur-
ban and the rural population. It appeared by the return
just made that there was a vast ,increase in the urban as
compared with the rural population, and he (Sir J. Gra..
ham) was sorry to find such was the case, and the fact was
one not to be lost sight of. Ho thought the present oppor-
tunity should not be lost of making the additions contem-
plated, and he hoped he would never see the day when ad-
ditions would be pressed simply on the ground of popula-
tion without regard to wealth and intelligence. (Hear.)
He would not hesitate to give his vote in favour of Ken-
sington and Chelsea even in preference to the London
University. (Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Mr. WALPOLE said the right hon. baronet who had
just sat down would give his vote in favour of Kensington
and Chelsea, and if that proposal failed, he would then
propose that the seat should be given to the University of
London. Now the Government had recommended the
claims of Kensington and Chelsea solely on the ground of
the increase of population—but the inaccuracy of the calcu-
lation had been pointed out by his right hon. friend Mr.
Disraeli, and he could not help observing that there was a
fallacy in the argument of the right hon. gentleman (Sir
G. C. Lewis) for ho should have shown not that there was
an increase in the population of the metropolis, but that
there was such an increase in the population of Kensington
and Chelsea as would warrant them in giving one member
to these places. The right hon. baronet (Sir J. Graham)
had told them that Kensington and Chelsea had not Only
a population of 130,000, but that these places paid so much
taxation that they were entitled to have a member. His
(Mr. Walpole's) opinion always had been, that if they gave
a member to Kensington and Chelsea, they should do so by
the division of Middlesex into two parts. The propositions
before them required great consideration, and for his part
he should vote for the amendment of his hon. friend.

Sir G. C. LEWIS said a few words in explanation, and
observed that Kensington and Chelsea had in 10 years in-
creased 30,000, that the increase in the metropolis in the
same period had been 440,000, which was nearly equal to
the population in the Parliamentriry borough of Liverpool,
which was 443,000, and more than the population in the
Parliamentary borough of Manchester, which was 338,000.
Mr. BARROW, referring to the statement of the right
hon. gentleman, that the urban population had greatly in-
creased since the last census, while 'that of rural districts
had not so greatly increased, suggested whether that might
not arise from the preponderance of urban members in that
house. (Cheers and laughter.) He did not think a case
had been made out for the proposed enfranchisement,
which he thought most objectionable, and he should cer-
tainly vote against it.
For the amendment .. 275
Against it
Majority against Government -103

The proposition to enfranchise Kensington and Chelsea
was therefore negatived, and the announcement of the
numbers was received with loud cheers from the Conserva-
tive side of the house.

Sir G. C. LEWIS then moved that the committee do
now report progress amidst loud cries of " Go on, go on,"

Mr. AYRTON hoped that if hon. gentlemen were de-
termined to go on, they would allow the subject to be dis-
cussed fully and fairly. If they were not to be heard
patiently they had better report progress.

Lord J. RUSSELL said it would be inconvenient at that
late hour (twelve o'clock) to discuss all the questions as to
the third member for Middlesex, the member for the Uni-
versity of London, the member for the Scotch Universities,
and other propositions which were on the paper. He hoped
they would agree to report progress. (Cries of "Go on.")
Mr. DISRA.EL I said ho thought that the proposition of
the Government was a very reasonable one. They had
brought in a bill of great importance, one of the main pro-
positions of which had just been rejected by the house—
(hear, hear)—and he thought it was but right that they
should require a little time to consider what course they
should now pursue. (Hear, and ironical cheers from the
Opposition.) He would like to know on what day they
intended to proceed.
Sir G. C. LEWlS—Monday next.

Mr. DISRAELI—That is only a very reasonable delay.
Mr. V. SCULLY objected to Monday next, as he had a
motion for that day.

The Chairmßn then reported progress.

INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
SUPPLY REPORT.
The report was brought up and agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. VILLIERS; the Irremovable Poor
Bill was read a second time.
The Removal of Scotch and Irish Poor Bill was read a
second time.
The Excise and Stamps Bill, as amended, was considered.
The Edinburgh Assessments Bill was read a third time
and passed.

VACCINATION.
Mr. LOWE obtained leave to bring in a bill to facilitate
proceedings before justices under the acts relating to vacci-
nation,
The other business was disposed of, and the lawn ad-
Jourued at nYO minutes to two o'clock.

- -
TIIE LATE ATTEMPTED MURDER AND
BURGLARY AT ISLINGTOIV.

Yesterday, it having become known that the un-
fortunate female, Mary Ana Redkison, had so far
recovered as to be enabled to undergo a public exa-
mination, the Clerkenwell Police-court was crowded
to excess, and the roadway and pavement were
rendered nearly impassable. After the disposal of
the ordinary night charges the prisoners Frederick
Strugnell, aged 18, George Quilter, aged 24, and
William Liney, aged 21, all butchers, were brought
up for re-examination.
Mr. Sleigh, barrister, attended for the prosecu-
tion, instructed by Mr. Leyton, vestry-clerk of
Islington ; Mr. Beard, of Basinghall-street, de-
fended Quilter and Liney ; and Mr. Lewis, sen.,
appeared for Strugnell.
The unfortunate girl having been brought into
the court and seated immediately before the magis-
trate's table, Mr. Sleigh requested that Strugnell
only should be placed at the bar.
The prisoner was then brought into court, and
on seeing the poor girl's disfigured countenance
and bandaged head, became apparently much con-
cerned.
Mr. Sleigh said----I appear before you to-day for
the purpose of completing the case against the pri-
soner Strugnell, who is charged with wounding this
unfortunate girl, whom, I am happy to say, is suffi-
ciently recovered to appear here to day, with intent
to murder her. The facts of this lamentable case
have been so fully laid before you on the previous
occasions, that I feel it is not necessary for me to
detain you by going over them again. This unfor-
tunate young woman is frightfully disfigured, but
I am happy to say that she will recover. I will
just shortly examine her as to the deposition which
she has already made when at the hospital.
Mr. Lewis asked that the whole of the prisoners
should be placed at the bar, as it was ono transac-
tion.

Mr. Beard objected to such a course.
Mr. Sleigh, as counsel for the prosecution, had
carefully considered the whole case, and had come
to the conclusion that the course he proposed was
the most expedient.
Mr. Mould (the chief clerk) then read over the
deposition made by Mary Ann Redkison while in
the hospital, and which was reported in our columns
at the time.
The poor girl having been sworn, was examined
by Mr. Sleigh. She said—When I made that state-
ment I could not see very well. The person I
referred to as Fred. is the prisoner at the bar.
[The witness here cried for some time.] After a
short lapse she continued—He lived with Mr.
Higgins at the same time that I did. The state-
ment which Mr. Mould has just read to me is
correct.

Cross•examined by Mr. Lewis—l have a perfect
recollection of all that took place up to the time I
became insensible. I did not give Strugnell the
knife before I went upstairs for him to protect me
if any one was there. I never touched the knife.
I did not ask him to go upstairs with me after he
had been in the parlour. lam quite sure of that.
I said to him, "The street door is open, some one
has broken in and robbed the place; I will go and.
see." I will undertake to swear that. My recol-
lection is quite clear on that point. He never went
upstairs with me. I never saw him, nor did I hear
his footsteps behind me. When I came down stairs
I did not take up the chopperifrona behind the door
to chop at him with. I only touched the chopper
to put it behind the door, as I always did. The
knife usually laid underneath the counter with
the other things. It was not with the chop-
per, which I placed against the door after
he came back with the gin. It was on
the opposite side of the shop. I had no
quarrel with Strugnell, not in the slightest, but
up to the moment when he struck me we were on
the best terms of friendship. In fact, we had
been on the best of terms during the whole evening
until he struck me with the knife.
Mr. J. D. Hill was the next witness. He said—
I am the house-surgeon of the Royal Free Hospital.
At a little after 9 o'clock on the evening of Sunday,
the 21st of April, the young woman, Mary Ann
Redkison, was admitted to the hospital, most
severely injured. I saw her almost immediately
after her admission, and she has been under the care
of Mr. Wakley and myself ever since. On examin-
ing her, I found that she had a very extensive lace-
rated wound in the upper part of the face, extending
through all the structures and bones of the nose.
There was a scalp wound on the upper part of the
head, exposing the skull, and cutting through its
upper table. The length of that wound was about
21 inches. There was one more wound on the same
side, just above the temple, cutting the skull com-
pletely through in an obl'que direction, and pene-
trating through to the membranes of the brain. She
had a wound in her fore finger on the right hand,
and one upon the wrist of the left arm. These were
the principal wounds.

By Mr. Barker—These wounds were such as might
have been produced by an instrument like a but-
cher's knife and clever. Those on the head I should
say were inflicted with a clever, and those on the
hand and wrists with a knife.
By Mr. Sleigh—The wounds on the head were of
a very serious character, and my.;.th imperilled the
life of the young woman. I loelieve that for a long
time her life was in danger, The fore finger on her
right hand is impaired, am afraid, permanently--
at all events some gr,-at length of time must elapse
before she can remover the use of it. I did not my-
self observe teat the girl's dress was cut in different
places.

- The nurse, who had accompanied the poor girl
from the hospital, explained that the dress was cut
in several places.
Mr. Sleigh said he had no further evidence to offer,
and he would therefore ask the magistrate to com-
mit the prisoner Strugnell on the charge of cutting
and wounding with intent to murder.
Mr. Mould then read over the depositions of the
numerous witnesses who have been examined at the
different sittings.
Mr. Lewis then addressed the worthy magistr& e
on behalf of Strugnell. He had no doubt that the
magistrate would commit his client to take his trial,
but he (Mr. Lewis) wished to say a few words as
to the particular charge on which he should be
committed. No doubt they all had the greatest
sympathy with the injured young woman, but they
must not forget that justice must be done to the
young man at the bar. The young woman had
stated in her evidence that up to the last moment
she and the prisoner were on the best terms of
friendship, and be would ask whether there was
any supposition that his client intended to murder
the young girl. That person had made her state-
ment on oath, and all they had on the other side
was the bare word of the accused. Perhaps if he (the
prisoner) could by the law be allowed to give his
version he might explain the whole matter. He
(Mr. Lewis) was instructed to say that his client
had not the slightest intention of murdering the
young woman. She had stated to the Court
that after the first blow she received she
became insensible, and therefore, he would ask
how could they expect otherwise than that her
memory had become a perfect blank as to what did
really take place? Under these circumstances he
would ask the worthy magistrate whether the case
would not be fully met by sending the prisoner for
trial on the charge of doing some grievous bodily
injury, without saying that there was any felonious
intention whatever on his part. The number of
wounds in a case of this sort should never be taken
into consideration ; for when a man had a knife in
his hand, and using it under circumstances of which
no explanation could be given, he might wield it
ad captanduin, without any idea of injuring any
person seriously. Again he (Mr. Lewis) would
ask, what motive the prisoner could have in mur-
dering the young girl, with whom he had been on
the best terms. They had been drinking some gin
together and the whole scene in the house was be-
tween themselves only ; and how could it be said
that the chopper was not lifted by the young
woman, or that the young man used the knife in
self-defence ? In fact he thought his client's state-
ment the most feasible of the two, and he would
therefore ask the magistrate to commit the prisoner
only for doing some grievous bodily harm, and not
with any felonious intent.
The magistrate said he could not grant the appli-
cation, and the prisoner must be committed for
stabbing, cutting, and wounding Mary Ann Red-
kison, with intent to murder her.
The prisoner having been uly cautioned, in re-
ply to the magistrate as to whether he
had anything
to
say
George in
n Quilterdefence, maenrdely shook. Liney were then
his head.
laced in the dock with Strugnell, and the whole
three were examined on the charge of the robbery.
The witnesses having been ordered out of court,
Mr. Higgins was called and sworn. He said that
he went out on the Sunday in question at about
three in the afternoon, and returned about ten
o'clock in the evening, when he found a crowd round
his house. He was told of what had taken place.
When he went out he left an iron box in his bed-
room in which was about £lOO in money, a savings
bank book, and some other articles. On his return
he went upstairs and found the box gone, with some
rings, studs, and other valuables from other parts of
the room. Strugnell and Liney had both beer, in
his service, and they left at different times. The
prisoner was last in his employ at Christmas when
he was there for a few weeks on a job. At that
time Quilter, the other prisoner, used to call fre-
quently and see Strugnell and Liney, and
they all
app ared on the best terms of friendship.
C livingross-e withxamin witnessMr.edby tie
L wis---When Strugnell
was did his work well. Had
no fault to find with him, and gave him a charac-
ter when he left.

Cross-examined by Mr, Beard—He gage Liner g