The Sun.
London, England, 1857-12-08 00:00:00

CHURCH RATES.

The Earl of MAL MESBURY asked whether it was
the intention of the Government to bring forward, during
the ensuing session, any measure respecting church
rates I

Earl GRANVILLE said it would entirely depend
upon circumstances whether any such measure would bo
introduced.

HER MAJESTY'S ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS,

The Earl Sr. GERMANS brought up her Majesty's
answer to the address of their lord,hips, in answer to
her Majesty's gracious speech on Thursday last. Her
Majesty's answer was as follows :—"1 thank you for
your loyal and dutiful address. You may rely on my
cordial co-operation in all measures calculated to pro-
mote the welfare and prosperity of my people in every
part of. my dominions."

THE EARL OF DERBY'S ATTACK ON THE
GOVERNMENT.

Earl GRANVILLE said be would take that oppor-
tunity to afford some explanation as to contrad ctions
which he had given to the noble earl opposite in the
course of the debate on Thursday last. As to the alleged
reprimand administered to Major-Gen. Hearsey by Lord
Canning, the noble earl said that there had been such
reprimand to Gen. Hearsay for having, after an attempt
at mutiny in the 34th, then and there promoted a sepoy,
but what had taken place left no impression on his (Earl
Granville's) mind of a reprimand. On referring to the
Blue Book he found this account of what bat taken
place. Their lordships were aware that certain orders
and regulations existed—whether they were right or
wrong had nothing to do with Lord Canning—as to the
powers of officers commanding troops. The facts were
that Major-Gen. Hearsey did not promote the sepoy on
the spot, because he was not there. He found that Lord
Canning, in reviewing that general order, pointed out to
General Hearsey that he had no authority to make that
promotion without the sanction of the Government ; but
it was added that the man richly deserved promotion,
and that the appointment should be made. He (Lord
Granville) had said that he had no recollection of any
reprimand having been given, and he could not conceive
that the Governor-General having pointed out the exist-
ing regulations amounted to a reprimand. The noble earl
a!ter wards said what he was about to state appeared so
strange that he hardly expected it to be believed, but be
asked her Majesty's Government to contradict it it they
could, and it they did not contradict it be promised that
he would produce irrefragable evidence of the truth of
it. Some considerable time after these arrangements
the President of the Board of Control somewhat sur-
prised the Peninsular and Oriental Company by a letter
which he wrote to them to ask if a scheme might not
be organised for sending troops to India by the com-
pany's stezmers. Now, this had been done for a consi-
derable time both under the authority of her Majesty's
Government and that of the East India Company,
and yet the President of the Board of Control wrote
to ask if it was possible to organise a scheme
for doing FO. He asked how, after what he had stated,
the country could trust to the vigour, the energy, the
wisdom of those by whom the government of India was
administered. He (Earl Granville) stated that he believed
that statement to be without foundation, and he had
since made inquiries, and he could now state that his
right hon. friend, Mr. V. Smith, bad never sent any
letter to the Peninsular aid Oriental Company ; the
Company had never received such a letter, and did not
reply to it, as the noble lord had misstated, and that no
reply had been received by the right hon. gentleman.
The Earl of DERBY—His noble friend had been good
enough to give him notice, which he had received about
an hour ago, of his intention to give some explanation of
contradictions which he had given to him on Thursday
last, and he (the Earl of Derby) had endeavoured to
recollect what those contradictions were, but all he could
fix on were two—one to which his noble friend bad just
referred ; the other was not in reference to th• Presi-

dent of the Board of Control, but his statement that for
a cfflbsiderable time no step was taken by the Govern-
ment of India to disabuse the minds of the sepoys as
to the intention of the Government to interfere with
their religion. He had assumed that those were tho
two points upon which there was to be explanation of

contradictions. To the two points which had been re-
ferred to by his noble friend he would take the liberty to
add a third ; for on that point also he had been con-
tradicted. With regard to the reprimand of Major-
General Hearsey, all he could say was this—that
Major-General Hearsey, having taken upon himself to

promote this sepoy, bad that promotion been disapproved

of by the Government ? His noble friend had charged
him wadi having taken these facts, not from the blue
book, but from a certain "red pamphl4." He admitted

that he had read that pamphlet, and he strongly urged
their lordships to read it also, for a more able summary
of affairs in India he had seldom seen. But he had not

made a single statement that he had read there without
verifying it by official documents. The noble earl was

not right in supposing that he had got his facts from that
pamphlet ; but what he had said was this, that Major-
General Hearsey bad received a reprimand from Lord
Calming, and he did said that be had. He had done
too much, he was afraid, for he had conceded that a°

order contained a statement of approval of what Msj9r.
General Hearsey had dt.ne, for ha now found that it did

not.

His noble friend wonld find in the minutes that it

was stated, as to the sepoy who so gallantly defended his

officer against the murderous attack of the mu inter,

that it was not in the power of a m,,j >r•general in tke

army to make this promotion, which could proceed only
from the Governor-General of India,and therefore should
not have appeared in the divisional order without the
sanction of the Government. Now when a governor-
general, without a single comment, announced that a
major-general ought not to have done that which he had
done— (near, hear)--he said it was, to hie mind, ex-
tremely like a reprimand ; it might not be so to the
minds of her Majesty's Government, but it was so to
those of other people. It went on to say, that "
doutitedly that promotion which has beea annosiaced is
richly deserved, and may be properly confirmed." The
confirmation wee accompanied by a reprimand to the
major-general for doing it. The next statement made
was as to the inserting two officers' names in the order,
because, it was said, it should not be for a moment sup-
posed that any other officer would not have acted in the
same way, and because it was thought that it was very
inexpedient that this matter should be made the subjsct
of more conversation than was necessary. He thenght
it should be observed that the divisional order had not
characterised the mutiny as one of re:igious frenzy, and
he must express his astonishment that the Government
still persisted in saying that it was not a reprimand.
(Hear, hear.) The second point on which the noble
earl had offered contradiction was that he (the Earl of
Derby) had said, that for a considerable period of time
no step had been taken to disabuse the minds of the
sepoys with regard to the intention of the Government
to interfere with their religion. What said his noble
friend I Why, that within one month afterwards the
greased cartridges were withdrawn. He knew that, but
that was no authority for saying that it was the deter-
mination of he Government to abstain from every step
that looked like interference with religion. On the 9th
of June, his noble friend (Lord Ellenborough) had asked
the government whether it was not the intention of the
government of India to issue ssah a proclamation to quiet
the public mind t Tnat was on the gth of June, and he
was told that it was not the intention of the government
to issue such an order, that it was wholly unnecessary,
and that the government entirely approved of Lord Can-
ning not issuing such an order. What happened at the
very time :that the noble earl was denying this 9 Why
the Governor-General bad actually issued a proclama-
tion which the government here were lauding him for
not issuing ; but the fact was that be bad issued it three
moths after he ought to have issued it. What he com-
plained of was delay. As to the third point, he should
be extremely sorry to misrepresent or even exaggerate
the mistakes of the right hon. gentleman the President
of the Board of Control, and ho bad not been surpri,ed
at being met with an expression of incredulity, because
when the statement was first made to himself, he said
" that is impossible." (Elear.) All he could now say
was, that he was never more astonished than by the con-
tradiction which he had that :night received, because
the gentleman who had given him the statement, except
that he bad used the words " very considerable time,"
and he believed the period was three or four days—the
gentleman who bad given him the statement—and he
was sure he would not mislead him—and obtained it
from the managing director of the Peninsular and Orien-
tal Company—a member of parliament, not in England
new, to whom the letter was addressed, and who had
informed his informant that it had been sent. The day
that parliament met he again saw his informant, who
said he was sure he was correct. He said that the man-
aging director was not now in England, but he would
see the other managing director, and he did see bins,
and informed him (the Earl of Derby) that what he had
said was correct. He regretted if be had done injustice
to the right hon. gentleman the President of the Board
of Control ; and of course, if his noble friend had had the
opportunity of giving immediate contradiction, that cons
tradictiou would have been made. He was extremely
sorry if be had done injustice. He could not explain
the contradiction tbat had been given to the circum-
stances that had been brought before him ; but so the
matter must rest. He had no power to make any further
inquiries, and he had stated the authority on which he
had made his statement.
Earl GRA.NVILLE—With regard to the explana-
tion which he had given as to what the noble lord called
the reprimand to Major-General Ilearsey, he had nothing
further to add. With regard to the other point, as to
the greased cartridges, he would read an official docu-
ment to them of what steps bad been taken to di4abuse
the minds of the sepoyr. With regard to the Peninsuler
and Oriental Company and the explanation that had
been given, be would only say that be held in his band
the correspondence on the subject. It was stated that
everybody connected with the Peninsular and Oriental
Company had been asked, and nobody could imaeine on
what greund the statement bad been made. It was
thought that it must be all a mistake ; that they had re-
ceived no letter, public or private, from the Board of